# Sucker punches



## ross3805 (Jan 18, 2006)

Wat sucker punches have u guys used effectively? Any replies appreciated


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## MA-Caver (Jan 18, 2006)

By "sucker-punch" it is presumed you mean hitting the guy when he isn't looking/ready or unprepared. 
To me a true martialist and a gentleman doesn't use sucker punches. It's not very sporting nor is it the act of someone who holds their values to the point that they can walk away feeling good about themselves. 
It's dirty fighting and while the words of my oldest brother are still with me; "...there's no such thing as a 'clean-fight'..." I won't stoop that low. 

But that's just me.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 18, 2006)

By "sucker-punch" it is presumed you mean hitting the guy when he isn't looking/ready or unprepared. 
To me a true martialist and a gentleman doesn't use sucker punches. It's not very sporting nor is it the act of someone who holds their values to the point that they can walk away feeling good about themselves. 
It's dirty fighting and while the words of my oldest brother are still with me; "...there's no such thing as a 'clean-fight'..." and it's probably true, I won't stoop that low. 

But that's just me.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 18, 2006)

If sucker Kicks count, I had just witnessed a guy do a Captain Kirk type double fisted sucker punch on my buddy. I slowly walked toward the door in which he had run to maybe catch a glimpse of him escaping but the guy was comming back to see if his other friend was going to come with. He didn't know me from Adam; so, I simply walked into him with a Knife edge kick. He hit the wall behind him. I bounced my leg off the ground and caught him with a second knife edge. For some reason I shuffled up and pulled a lot of his hair right off his head (he had long blonde hair). I then remade a tight grip on both sides of his head and brought my knee up to kick him but stopped it right at the tip of his nose when the bouncer yelled, "Take it outside!". I did. Another bouncer instructed me to get back in the bar and they told the guy to never come back. This was not before the guy that he sucker punched came too and stomped him in the ribs a few times. This was 1990 at the Discovery in Louisville for those keeping track. They let anyone drink underage; so, there we were. Those were the days!
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 19, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> By "sucker-punch" it is presumed you mean hitting the guy when he isn't looking/ready or unprepared.
> To me a true martialist and a gentleman doesn't use sucker punches. It's not very sporting nor is it the act of someone who holds their values to the point that they can walk away feeling good about themselves.
> It's dirty fighting and while the words of my oldest brother are still with me; "...there's no such thing as a 'clean-fight'..." and it's probably true, I won't stoop that low.
> 
> But that's just me.


Not my fault if my opponent isn't ready, but I don't consider self defense a sport. I didn't do it to feel good about myself either. He made his bed.
Sean


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## Jonathan Randall (Jan 19, 2006)

Touch Of Death said:
			
		

> Not my fault if my opponent isn't ready, but I don't consider self defense a sport. I didn't do it to feel good about myself either. He made his bed.
> Sean


 
You were protecting a friend. I think, although he'd have to speak for himself, that MA Caver meant he wouldn't initiate an assault with a sucker punch - defining sucker punch as initiated by the aggressor and not as the pre-emptive strike you wrote of.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 19, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> You were protecting a friend. I think, although he'd have to speak for himself, that MA Caver meant he wouldn't initiate an assault with a sucker punch - defining sucker punch as initiated by the aggressor and not as the pre-emptive strike you wrote of.


Although that particular instance was avoidable but justified. I just can't see telling a person to put up there dukes before I fight them. I wouldn't be fighting if it was about being a good sport. Fighting is about treating someone with an "almost total lack of respect". I would not fight a person that deserved my respect.
Sean


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## Jonathan Randall (Jan 19, 2006)

ross3805 said:
			
		

> Wat sucker punches have u guys used effectively? Any replies appreciated


 
I think that you have to differentiate between a _sucker punch_ and a _pre-emptive strike_. The term sucker punch connotes a violent assault initiated by yourself, a pre-emptive strike is your having evidence that an assault upon your person _or another with you, _imminent and you *pre-empt *the attackers assault with a strike of your own. Big difference in terms.

Have I sucker punched anyone? Heck, no. Have I launched a pre-emptive strike? You bet - but only because assault was imminent and I had no means of escape.

Welcome to Martial Talk!


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## MA-Caver (Jan 19, 2006)

Exactly, there is a difference. 
A sucker punch is exactly that, only (IMO) it's two-fold; 1. That the guy getting hit is a sucker for letting his guard down. 2. The guy throwing the sucker punch is a sucker for doing so, and there are a couple of definitions that will apply here.
A "pre-emptive strike" however means basically first strike which is hitting your opponent before they hit you, yes simple enough but I wanted to be clear on the meaning (for me anyway) before continuing. 
I recall reading somewhere (wish I could remember  sigh) that in the last few months/years of his life, Bruce Lee was going on that tangent of being the first to hit in any conflict/altercation and still calling it "self-defense". When one thinks about it he's right on with that viewpoint. Why wait for someone to hit (and possibly seriously hurt) you frst when it's clear that they have every intention of doing so? True the letter of the law might state whom-ever throws the first punch is the instingator of the fight, but as martial artists it's illogical to allow that to happen to us. As (well) trained as we're (supposed) to be we should read our opponents body language well enough to know that we need to "intercept" their intentions before they're enacted. 
So yeah, if I read someone correctly, and I hope that I always will be able to, then yeah, if the opportunity to strike and to make it count comes up ... "I do not hit ... it hits all by itself" 
This is where speed, power and accuracy comes in handy. To pop the guy out of the fight where its over as soon as it's started.

:asian:


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## Odin (Jan 19, 2006)

ross3805 said:
			
		

> Wat sucker punches have u guys used effectively? Any replies appreciated


 
I'll admit I have once in a bar,i waved my left hand infront of this angry drunk guys face (like obi one in episode one) and while his eyes followed that movement clocked him with a right hook....Im usally honourable...but he said said something mean about my mum! that is just not cool.


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## arnisador (Jan 19, 2006)

A sucker punch is an attack...why would I use one? (A pre-emptive strike is different.) Unless you're in the military being trained in sentry stalking, why would someone need surprise attacks for self-defense?


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## lonecoyote (Jan 19, 2006)

A better thing to discuss might be how to defend against a sucker punch. I'll add that everyone should guard against the handshake sucker punch. I've seen it used by aggressive drunks, and got caught with it one time. A guy you've had a beef with in a bar or on the street, makes the let's-shake-hands motion with a conciliatory attitude, there is a tendency to move in closer, tie up that hand with a shake and then BAM you catch one. The guy can actually pull the hand while punching, or just wait to see if you take the bait by deciding to shake, which puts you in an unaware attitude. I no longer shake with people who've been drinking or look strange or on drugs.


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## Odin (Jan 19, 2006)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> A better thing to discuss might be how to defend against a sucker punch. I'll add that everyone should guard against the handshake sucker punch. I've seen it used by aggressive drunks, and got caught with it one time. A guy you've had a beef with in a bar or on the street, makes the let's-shake-hands motion with a conciliatory attitude, there is a tendency to move in closer, tie up that hand with a shake and then BAM you catch one. The guy can actually pull the hand while punching, or just wait to see if you take the bait by deciding to shake, which puts you in an unaware attitude. I no longer shake with people who've been drinking or look strange or on drugs.


 
Iv heard of that one,my brother is in the army and I've seen him do the old handshake head butt routine.Im not really proud of him for that incase anyone was wondering.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 19, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> A sucker punch is an attack...why would I use one? (A pre-emptive strike is different.) Unless you're in the military being trained in sentry stalking, why would someone need surprise attacks for self-defense?


Its not that you need the suprise. Once the fight has started and his timing is effected by what ever, its not my responsibility to ask him to pay attention before I make my move. In fact, it would be quite irresponsible to do so if you have a valid reason to permanently effect his timing. ( an insult to your mommy a not a valid reason)
Sean


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## green meanie (Jan 19, 2006)

Here's two:

Wait till they go to get a drink out of the water fountain and hit them in the back of the head.

Wait till they go to the restroom and catch them with their pants down. Hit them with what ever, where ever. Dragging them halfway out of the stall by their ankles makes for a easy one-sided fight.


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## lonecoyote (Jan 19, 2006)

You must be the meanest kid in high school. That restroom thing could be messy. I think this thread can actually be useful though, in warning how we on martial talk, the good guys, that is, how not to get caught by some common sucker punches, I mentioned the handshake sucker punch, also I've heard of the what time is it? sucker punch, used because it takes away focus because it makes you look at your watch for a second instead of at the person asking the question.  I've also seen kids do the "your shoes untied" shove.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 19, 2006)

I got one ( I expent payment for this if anyone decides to use it because its an original) you sneak up behind your brothe... I mean the enemy when they are unloading the dishes out of the dishwasher and you cusualy reach down and pinch the back of their leg. Their shin will kick into the open dishwasher door. Its fun for the whole family but ya gotta sleep sometime.
Sean


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## lonecoyote (Jan 19, 2006)

Okay, that doesn't count. If that counts, then tricking my wife into the "dutch oven" counts (you can only do it once)


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## green meanie (Jan 19, 2006)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> You must be the meanest kid in high school. That restroom thing could be messy.


 
I am what I am. But its been a long time since I was a kid in school.


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## Henderson (Jan 19, 2006)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> Okay, that doesn't count. If that counts, then tricking my wife into the "dutch oven" counts (you can only do it once)


 
:fart: 

:rofl: :roflmao:


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## Jagermeister (Jan 25, 2006)

Odin said:
			
		

> I'll admit I have once in a bar,i waved my left hand infront of this angry drunk guys face (like obi one in episode one) and while his eyes followed that movement clocked him with a right hook....Im usally honourable...but he said said something mean about my mum! that is just not cool.



LOL.  That's the most original.  I gotta give you props for that one.


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