# getting in trouble



## Marshall hahn (Sep 14, 2009)

i think it is a bad thing to get in trouble by the laws trying to defend yourself from a person trying to hurt you your  karate can be the only thing that can save your life


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## jks9199 (Sep 14, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i think it is a bad thing to get in trouble by the laws trying to defend yourself from a person trying to hurt you your  karate can be the only thing that can save your life


And your point is?  Or are you simply declaring the obvious?


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## suicide (Sep 14, 2009)

:BSmeter:


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 14, 2009)

suicide said:


> :BSmeter:


 


"Rated R"


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## still learning (Sep 14, 2009)

Hello, Which side of the coin you want to be?  

Martials arts....is a good thing to learn and know how to use correctly...

NOT knowing...will still get you into trouble anyway....

Laws are made by Man..Man is NOT perfect...therefore..we will get some imperfect laws....

Learning to defend oneself....and survive?  ....is a good trouble to be in...better than the morgue or Hospital...

Aloha,   ...the troubles of life..is the troubling of laws...


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 14, 2009)

it just getting in trouble with the law aint right


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## jks9199 (Sep 14, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> it just getting in trouble with the law aint right


So learn the laws, and respond within the scope of what's justifiable.

Hint... the search function here will yield many informative threads about the justifiable use of force.


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## Knives (Sep 15, 2009)

still learning said:


> Laws are made by Man..Man is NOT perfect...therefore..we will get some imperfect laws....
> 
> Learning to defend oneself....and survive?  ....is a good trouble to be in...better than the morgue or Hospital...





jks9199 said:


> So learn the laws, and respond within the scope of what's justifiable.


Agreed

Know your environment.  Know your environment.  Know your environment.

Don't knock someone out for spilling a drink on you or something minor like that, it's just not justifiable.  If someone obviously is trying to cause harm to you, react in a manner that will sedate the situation as quickly and efficiently as possible.  That's where your MA training comes in 

Make sure you don't start it, but make sure you end it.


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 15, 2009)

Friendo, i will say this:

Look at your local state laws.
: o )
some are more "Lenient"
To those that are defending one's self cause the bad guy "Kept entering your personal space" repeatedly, and,
 the fact, you had witnesses.
Remember, it goes to court, and THEY FIND out you are a martial artist, NOT GOOD!


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 15, 2009)

i believe you should be able to defend yourself if that person is introding


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## zepedawingchun (Sep 15, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i think it is a bad thing to get in trouble by the laws trying to defend yourself from a person trying to hurt you your karate can be the only thing that can save your life


 
Just don't get caught and there's nothing to worry about.  Kick *** and run like hell!


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 15, 2009)

when i hurt them i will be liable to break bone possible paralyze them permenantly


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## Omar B (Sep 15, 2009)

"Bash, smash, stab stab stab."  That's my motto.


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## suicide (Sep 15, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> it just getting in trouble with the law aint right


 
get a gooooooooooooooooooood lawyer and pay no regards to the rest of the world but if you plan on using a public defender your in deep shiznit %-}


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 15, 2009)

suicide said:


> get a gooooooooooooooooooood lawyer and pay no regards to the rest of the world but if you plan on using a public defender your in deep shiznit %-}


 

i concur with that statement!
LOL!

To Marshall, Every state is different, pull up penal codes, and read them.


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## Danjo (Sep 15, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> when i hurt them i will be liable to break bone possible paralyze them permenantly


 
So...does that mean that you have no control, or that the only techniques you have are lethal?


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## mwd0818 (Sep 15, 2009)

Danjo said:


> So...does that mean that ... the only techniques you have are lethal?



Therefore I can't use them on you unless I wanted to kill you.  So please, do not ask me to demonstrate.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2009)

opcorn:


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## jks9199 (Sep 15, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i believe you should be able to defend yourself if that person is introding


And you may.

But your response must be reasonable and appropriate to the attack.  Check your local laws for specifics.

And really... this has been covered in depth.  Look for it...


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## suicide (Sep 15, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> when i hurt them i will be liable to break bone possible paralyze them permenantly


 

sounds like youve been a victim and now you want revenge ! :shooter: your worried about the law well dont be just wear a ninja mask and dont leave no dna laying around cause csi aint no joke.:uhyeah: youll have your victim on the witness stand talking about he whooped your a_s 5 years ago and that you vowed to return one day with secret ancient knowledge that you learned on youtube %-} PEACE LOVE UNITY & RESPECT !


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 16, 2009)

to danjo question they can be lethal if they want to be


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 16, 2009)

to sucide question no i was never a victim


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 16, 2009)

in order to check the penal law were would i have to go


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## Danjo (Sep 16, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> to danjo question they can be lethal if they want to be


 
My question was why would you have to permanently injure someone if you fought them? Granted, sometimes that might be required, but you're acting as if that's the only speed you have. So, since your techniques are not neccessarily lethal, but rather only if you want them to be, then is it a lack of control on your part, i.e., anger management issues, that would cause any fight to go there?


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## suicide (Sep 16, 2009)

well if you do injure someone that bad your are going to do some time because most likely THE FUZZ will come to your house and take your computer were they will see that you were planning this for awhile but hey thats you ! also once your in jail you cant test your lethal skills against these guys im sure they ll have no problem accomidating you PEEP GAME SON 



 %-}


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 16, 2009)

suicide u can go f urself


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## jks9199 (Sep 16, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> when i hurt them i will be liable to break bone possible paralyze them permenantly


Both are much harder to do than you think.  Especially in the heat of a real encounter...


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## jks9199 (Sep 16, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> in order to check the penal law were would i have to go


Well... you might try using an internet search engine like Bing or Google.  

I'll even make it kind of easy for you: try FindLaw.


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## suicide (Sep 16, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> suicide u can go f urself


 
%-} yeah whatever lame´o ! what do you expect when you step up in the fourm ACTING like your a lethal weapon ??????????? to tell you the truth i smell _ussy ... so chill out bro and take an anger mngmt. class you need it before you do something stupid your gonna regret , until then go practice your lethalness on a punching bag before you become the punching bag yourself you never know who knows what ? they might flipp it on you :uhyeah:


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## jks9199 (Sep 16, 2009)

Hey, guys...  A friendly tip.  Let's discuss the issues, not attack each other, huh?  Otherwise, I foresee this thread going some very bad places which nobody will like.


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 16, 2009)

*WARNING

Knock it off. If we wanted to watch a schoolyard slap fight, we'd invite the 4th graders over.

*


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## suicide (Sep 16, 2009)

cool i understand %-}


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 16, 2009)

sorry bob i was just trying to find out if i can get in deep trouble with the law and suicide is basiclly insulting me i was just trying to find out the law


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 16, 2009)

Report the problems, let our staff handle em.  Saves headaches for everyone guys.

On the original topic:
Can you get in trouble defending yourself?
Yep.
Many states have an "obligation to retreat" law on the books.
Some are "Castle Doctrine" which allows some protection when your house, car or property are "invaded".
Some hang you out to dry if you don't make the criminal brunch after he pounds you.

Laws vary, based on where you are, the situation, what the bad guy did, and what you did.

In most cases, if you disarm the attacker, then beat him to a pump, it will be your *** that the courts chew up.  If you shoot him in the back while he is retreating, you can also get into trouble. If you knock him down, he hits his head and dies, you can get into trouble (the classic bar fight death).

Understand that cops responding to a situation see everyone involved as hostile. Their goal is to stop the carnage and separate the combatants. Not to decide who was right.  That is what the courts and lawyers are for.

Common thoughts are to be the person who called the cops, to be cooperative, and polite with them. It usually helps things go better for you. Not always, but usually.

For particulars for your area, consult with a lawyer experienced with self defense case law.


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## MJS (Sep 16, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i think it is a bad thing to get in trouble by the laws trying to defend yourself from a person trying to hurt you your karate can be the only thing that can save your life


 
I view it like this.  Know the laws of SD in your state.  Yes, they will vary from state to state.  Do your best to talk your way out of things.  It won't always work, as there will be times when there is no time for talking.  Base what you do, off of whats presented to you at the time.  Avoid problem areas.


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 17, 2009)

i live in a small town in texas if someone come up to me on the street and try to rob me can i defend myself


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## Carol (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i live in a small town in texas if someone come up to me on the street and try to rob me can i defend myself



Find a qualified defense attorney in your part of Texas and discuss your situation with him.   Better to get good advice before you do something.


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 17, 2009)

can anyone tell me wat this means

.  DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.  
(a)  A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
             (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and
             (2)   when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
                       (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
                       (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, 
                             aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b)  The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that 
       subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
             (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
                       (A)  unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's 
                               occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
                       (B)  unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor                                     from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
                       (C)  was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
             (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and        
             (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or 
                   ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used. 
(c)  A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person 
     against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is   
     not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d)  For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed 
     that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat


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## mwd0818 (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> can anyone tell me wat this means
> 
> .  DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
> (a)  A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
> ...



I think most of us will actually stay away from providing interpretations to this as we are not lawyers.  I would not like to be called in to testify that I told anyone they were justified to do something when I'm not trained in legal judo.

On the other hand, reading this, I think it's pretty straight forward . . .


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 17, 2009)

basicly if i defend myself for a good reason i cant get in trouble


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## jks9199 (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i live in a small town in texas if someone come up to me on the street and try to rob me can i defend myself


There are many places in Texas where you can learn about the laws of self defense there.  To get that specific in a forum like this is impractical.

In general principles, if someone is trying to rob or attack you, you may be able to legally defend yourself, if your response is within reason.  There are several threads in the General Self Defense forum that address these issues at length.


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## jks9199 (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> basicly if i defend myself for a good reason i cant get in trouble




Even if you do everything right, you may be arrested, and you may argue self defense at trial.  Then it's up to a jury or judge...

Even if you aren't arrested, you may find yourself sued.  Cops who kill someone attacking them are commonly sued... even if the shooting was ruled completely justified.

If you can't accept that this is possible, buy yourself a sheep costume and don't train in self-defense oriented martial arts.


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## Danjo (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> basicly if i defend myself for a good reason i cant get in trouble


 
Again, the police might not be the one to figure out whether the reason was good, or who started what with whom. They may well decide to let a judge or jury figure it all out and arrest and book both parties.

Go to Amazon and get a used copy of Marc MacYoung's book _*"A Professional's Guide To Ending Violence Quickly: How Bouncers, Bodyguards, and other Security Professionals Handle Ugly Situations"* _He goes into quite a bit about how screwed you can get for defending yourself and some tips on how to avoid ending up in jail. I'm sure there are other books on this subject that you can read as well to give you an idea.


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## suicide (Sep 17, 2009)

Marshall hahn said:


> i live in a small town in texas if someone come up to me on the street and try to rob me can i defend myself


 
if you get robbed in a small town youll probably know who robbed you ?


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## Marshall hahn (Sep 17, 2009)

the small town i live in with 18667 people drug rates been going up so i might not no that person


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 17, 2009)

yaaawwwnverkill:


are we all through here???


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## suicide (Sep 17, 2009)

shaolinmonkmark said:


> yaaawwwnverkill:
> 
> 
> are we all through here???


 

lol


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 17, 2009)

suicide said:


> lol


 


well, we have covered all topics in this thread, we all gave our best advice.
All we can do.
Thread shoul be done now.
LOL!!!


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## mwd0818 (Sep 18, 2009)

Except we keep resurrecting to see if we are done with it. . . 

Maybe we should just bump this one once a week for a year and see how it goes . . . 

(just kidding!)


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## shaolinmonkmark (Sep 21, 2009)

mwd0818 said:


> Except we keep resurrecting to see if we are done with it. . .
> 
> Maybe we should just bump this one once a week for a year and see how it goes . . .
> 
> (just kidding!)


 

i concur, see if our little friendo has gotten busted or not!LOL


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