# The MT Side Knee in clinch



## Shovel Hook (Oct 4, 2006)

I was just curious on opinions of this strike from MT and MMA guys. I never thought it looked very effective. Bas denounces it in his Extreme Pancrase series as powerless, and advocates instead, an angled but linear knee strike. I believe this movement (ankle following, in line with kneecap) would be superior (when the target is the floating ribs or others in the abdominal area) for power reasons, and without compromising balance too much. It would be limited in range of course for most. It is not much different at all from a regular vertical knee from the clinch.

For low targets though the traditional side knee movement (raised knee moving sideways) does not seem useful. As a fan I do like seeing Vanderlei Silva perform it while practically leaping into it. otherwise It seems out of place in a martial art of complete practicality and highly effective strikes.

What is your opinion. Am I way off and not getting something about it?
This is interesting to me because the clinch is my range, my home and learn as much as I can about all techniques available to work with. 

I do understand it was not intended to be a finishing blow, but even as a wear down (or set up) strike seems lacking and odd when a variation in angles of the standard vertical knee would be more effective.


----------



## still learning (Oct 4, 2006)

Hello, Is this like a round house knee into the ribs?   One way is to have someone do this to you?  Than you will know for yourself the effects it has to someone!  Try it!

If this was a bad technique...than most guys will not use it....but you will find it has it place...like on the other strikes we do!

If it does not effect you...than DO NOT USE IT! against your attackers in a clinch. ................Aloha


----------



## Shovel Hook (Oct 4, 2006)

Yeah, roundhouse knee, I've never felt one, but in my bagwork it seemed really puny. In that instructional Bas nailed his training partner full force with it, to show lack of effect.

I guess I'm looking for someone who uses it tell me some good things about it. It's used all the time in MMA (usually at times the the much more powerful vertical knee strike could be used)


----------



## Odin (Oct 5, 2006)

Its called  a 'hopping knee' in muay thai and believe me it hurts!
In muay thai when fighters clinch they leave very little room between each other (protection against front knees and also to be in elbow range) and as such the only way to get an effective strike in is either to create space or to come in from the side, its called a hopping knee since you hop up on one foot from one dierection and then swing your knee through your target in the other direction, you should connect the point of your knee into the ribs (aim for the floating rib),the ribs should be unprotected since you should be tying the arms up....to a seasoned muay thai fighter though you will have to step up your clinch game in order to do this move....if your not moving the heavy bag while doing this move then your not generating enough power through your hips!like most muay thai moves you need to drive through your target and shift your weight through.

This move isnt used much in MMA since in the mma clinch your further apart, you dont want to get someone in a tight clinch in mma since it will be easier to take you down.


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Oct 5, 2006)

Something else to consider.

Against another trained athelete, it won't be as effective.  However, imagine doing it in a self defense situation where the person isn't as well condititioned or used to that particular impact.  I've seen it devestate people who weren't used to it.

Jeff


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 5, 2006)

JeffJ said:


> Something else to consider.
> 
> Against another trained athelete, it won't be as effective. However, imagine doing it in a self defense situation where the person isn't as well condititioned or used to that particular impact. I've seen it devestate people who weren't used to it.
> 
> Jeff


 
Absolutely true!  When used against another trained athlete it just may not be that effective.  Particularly when it is another MMA, Kickboxer, Boxer, Wrestler or any Martial Artist or person who is trained to absorb impact. (ironbody)  This technique works great as all knee strikes do when used appropriately at the right time and to the right target.  Do not be fooled by a knee strike not looking impressive on a heavy bag that knee strike can do massive damage when hitting a human being.  

The down side of throwing it from the clinch is if the other guy is looking for it they can move and take you down while you are on one leg.  However, that takes someone who is sensitive and feels what you are doing at the moment.


----------



## King (Oct 5, 2006)

Hmm I see what you are talking about. It's that wussy looking knee that people throw when they get into a clinch. Well you see for most people it's more like a defensive or instinctive knee. As soon as they get into a clinch _bam_ side knee. Plus when you are tired and sloppy then you go into a clinch you just throw what you can throw. So you end up with a sloppy looking side knee. But a proper side knee with commitment and a target is very painfull. 

I agree with what Jeff and Brian mentioned, a trained athlethe can absorb shots better because they are conditioned for it. When I throw knees to new pad holders they get winded because they're not familliar/were not expecting that kind of impact from that angle.


----------



## Odin (Oct 5, 2006)

you can also do a hopping knee to the head,its a little trickier though but if you get it OUCH!...or the leg instead of hopping through hop throw and down into the thigh, only in a ring fight though trust me that combined with leg kicks after a while your man wont be able to stand!


----------



## Shovel Hook (Oct 10, 2006)

Odin said:


> ....if your not moving the heavy bag while doing this move then your not generating enough power through your hips!like most muay thai moves you need to drive through your target and shift your weight through.


 
I see what you are saying but I have seen people do it purely with the power of the hip flexors. One of my Ruas VT instructionals shows to do it that way, just bringing it over. I don't mean the hopping style  (I have seen it done with power such as Silva did to Rampage's chin in the second fight) but rather  the simple stand on one foot, raise opposite knee, then bring it over horizontally. But in a lot of cases I would think much more power could be generated by coming in at an angle, same movement as a regular  knee in the clinch (ankle following behind the knee), as Bas demonstrates. This is of course when there is enough room. It would also be less of an invitation to get the knee grabbed and taken down. But in addition to needong space, my way needs much more flexibility and will take away more balance. Everyones responses were great food for thought and excellent points and I realize there is need for this strike. There is more to consider than just power. I just find myself not being effective with it, especially compared regular and angled knee strikes. I have never practiced the hopping version. I will train with both and see if I can get better, but as for the stationary side knee don't know how to shift and put any weight into it.

Great responses everyone, thanks.


----------

