# Why does Judo no longer teach these choke holds?



## moonhill99

Like rear-naked choke, arm-triangle choke, triangle choke? I think in the past Judo taught these chokes but now no longer teach these choke holds?

I know BJJ is very big on use of these chokes and Miesha Tate have use these chokes a lot.

I believe Miesha Tate used a rear-naked choke on Holly Holm.

Like you see in BJJ or Miesha Tate use in MMA?


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## moonhill99

Example  of some chokes like.

http://cdn.karatebyjesse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/IMG_7073.jpg

http://image.gulflive.com/home/gulf...-press/photo/2016/03/06/-f2c23b96b355b1ca.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Rear_naked_choke.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._-_Defense_Visual_Information_Center_2006.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ARnhSbk-AUI/maxresdefault.jpg


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## elder999

moonhill99 said:


> Like rear-naked choke, arm-triangle choke, triangle choke? I think in the past Judo taught these chokes but now no longer teach these choke holds?
> 
> I know BJJ is very big on use of these chokes and Miesha Tate have use these chokes a lot.
> 
> I believe Miesha Tate used a rear-naked choke on Holly Holm.
> 
> Like you see in BJJ or Miesha Tate use in MMA?


ermmm...wha??


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## Tony Dismukes

As Elder illustrates with those videos, the chokes you mentioned are all part of the curriculum at any Judo academy and are all regularly used in Judo competition. I have no idea where you got the notion that they are no longer taught.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

moonhill99 said:


> Like rear-naked choke, arm-triangle choke, triangle choke? I think in the past Judo taught these chokes but now no longer teach these choke holds?


I have learned all of these chokes in Judo, and while I don't compete, I'm fairly certain they are all legal. Who told you that they were not?


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## moonhill99

elder999 said:


> ermmm...wha??



I never said Judo does not teach different chokes. 

I don't really see rear-naked choke or triangle chokes? Like what you see in MMA or BJJ.

Those chokes you posted above seem different.


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## moonhill99

kempodisciple said:


> I have learned all of these chokes in Judo, and while I don't compete, I'm fairly certain they are all legal. Who told you that they were not?



Yea these chokes are different than post 1 and 2.












Or like the BJJ below.


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## MAfreak

type sankaku jime in google and you'll see an example. all of you described is still teached in judo.
but their ground fighting is often stopped by the ref so when watching judo fights one doesn't see much ground techniques.


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## JR 137

Moonhill99,

Have you found a MA school yet, or are you still searching for that elusive flawless style?


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## Tony Dismukes

Rear Naked choke (Hadaka jime):









Arm Triangle  (Kata gatame):





Triangle choke (Sankaku jime):


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

moonhill99 said:


> Yea these chokes are different than post 1 and 2.
> 
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> 
> Or like the BJJ below.


I didn't bother looking at those because it does not effect me at all. Regardless of whether or not the videos you found on youtube are an RNC or a triangle choke, it does not mean that Judo does not teach them. I have learned those chokes in Judo,  I have had people from other Judo clubs  perform them on me, so Judo does teach them.


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## moonhill99

MAfreak said:


> type sankaku jime in google and you'll see an example. all of you described is still teached in judo.
> but their ground fighting is often stopped by the ref so when watching judo fights one doesn't see much ground techniques.



Can't seem to find video on youtube on Judo chokes like post 1 and 2.

Closest one is this one to post 1 and 2 this one.










Bit similar but done different.

It could be may be post 1 and 2 are BJJ chokes not Judo chokes that why not seen it. That Judo has different chokes than what see in post 1 and 2.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

moonhill99 said:


> Can't seem to find video on youtube on Judo chokes like post 1 and 2.


Look at Tony's first video. It is an incredibly clear cut RNC, being taught by a judoka.


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## MAfreak

List of Judo Techniques with Instructions & Videos - Black Belt Wiki don't just focus on youtube. the internet is big.


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## Langenschwert

Funny, we went over the triangle choke last week, and rear naked Wednesday night at my Judo club. Rear naked is one of my go-to newaza techniques. How could I use it if I was never taught it?


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## kuniggety

They are part of the original judo manual/curriculum. They're still part of the curriculum. I think you see them way less because of the reset of the match once the thrower loses initiative... However it's worded in judo. They have less time to go for the submission whereas in BJJ the match keeps going until someone submits.. Or the time limit runs out.


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## frank raud

I'm so glad to find out these chokes are no longer taught in judo. That means the tapout I did last night didn't really happen, so my randori record looks so much better.


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## Skullpunch

Tony Dismukes said:


> I have no idea where you got the notion that they are no longer taught.



Maybe OP trained at a dojo that's extremely weak at newaza?  No shortage of them these days (unfortunately).


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## elder999

Skullpunch said:


> Maybe OP trained at a dojo that's extremely weak at newaza?  No shortage of them these days (unfortunately).


Maybe OP watched some judo matches on youtube, and didn't understand.......no shortage of that these days, either (unfortunately).....


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## moonhill99

kuniggety said:


> They are part of the original judo manual/curriculum. They're still part of the curriculum. I think you see them way less because of the reset of the match once the thrower loses initiative... However it's worded in judo. They have less time to go for the submission whereas in BJJ the match keeps going until someone submits.. Or the time limit runs out.




I just seen some videos and web sites explaining it!! In BJJ it is called rear naked choke and in Judo is called Hadaka Jime  it is the same thing and can be done sitting, standing up or laying on your back or on top of the guy so on.











From I read Hadaka Jime or rear naked choke is more common in none Gi clothing. Where it can be done but is harder to pull of wearing Gi clothing be it BJJ or Judo.

So you don't see too many rear naked choke in sports BJJ with Gi clothing or Judo. Where you will see it more in none Gi clothing and MMA. Harder to pull of with Gi clothing


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## frank raud

If you could type slowly to help me understand, how is a choke that is not dependent on the use of a gi, more difficult to apply when wearing a gi?


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## kuniggety

I thought about the assertion and I kind of agree with it. With no-gi, you don't have this giant collar both in the way and helping absorb sweat. I find it's usually easier to get ahold of that collar and just go for a bow and arrow choke when in the gi. In no-gi, your hand can slip right in easier from the side. It's small nuances.


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## Hanzou

Bjj comes from Judo, and modern Judoka are cross training in Bjj to recoup some of their losses from the watering down of Judo after WW2. Thus, you're going to be seeing the same chokes in both systems with minor variations depending on the goals of the club/gym/dojo. 

The beautiful thing is how well both styles compliment each other. It's like twin sisters seeing each other again after decades being away from each other. Before my injury, I was actively incorporating Judo sacrifice throws into my game. 

Loved it!


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Bjj comes from Judo, and modern Judoka are cross training in Bjj to recoup some of their losses from the watering down of Judo after WW2. Thus, you're going to be seeing the same chokes in both systems with minor variations depending on the goals of the club/gym/dojo.



Some are-as far as chokes go, though, most don't have to.

The problem with most BJJ schools, of course, aside from the frequent lack of judo throws,  is their revisionist history and false sense of superiority.

Basically....


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## Hanzou

elder999 said:


> Some are-as far as chokes go, though, most don't have to.
> 
> The problem with most BJJ schools, of course, aside from the frequent lack of judo throws,  is their revisionist history and false sense of superiority.
> 
> Basically....



Which is far less concerning than the problems of Judo which is the complete deletion of techniques and strategies in order to fit a competition ruleset.


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## elder999

Hanzou said:


> Which is far less concerning than the problems of Judo which is the complete deletion of techniques and strategies in order to fit a competition ruleset.


I dunno.....some of us don't compete.

..



meanwhile, though


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## Hanzou

You win. I can't argue against the stupidity coming out of Gracie Barra.


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## frank raud

elder999 said:


> I dunno.....some of us don't compete.
> 
> ..View attachment 19924
> meanwhile, though


Wow. Just wow.


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