# Game Of Thrones featurette!



## Omar B

So if you have not read George RR Martin's Song Of Fire And Ice series then shame on you.  For those of you who have, HBO has put up a 10 min feature on the making of the show and I am officially in "freak the F out mode."  There is just so much eye candy from the books that I'm covered in goosebumps from watching it ... yes, the books are that awsome.

For the initiated, here's the clip.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJR3eBfcusM&feature=player_embedded

*Winter is coming.*


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## Sukerkin

Ooh!  I can't wait!


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## Omar B

Wow, one response to a thread about possibly the greatest series ever written.





Did you notice Joff on the Iron Throne?  Or Danny holding the dragon egg?  Or the tiny peek we got at the wall?  Insane!  Or The Mountain Who Rides and his dog shaped helm!


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## Empty Hands

Now if only George could get moving on A Dance With Dragons...and the rest.  I'm not sure he won't pull a Jordan before this thing can be completed.


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## Omar B

The thing with this series is, nobody could ever finish it.  The cast so large, all the houses vieing for power, etc.  I've read through the series twice so far and I still have to consult the glossary and really have to think about who's who.

I'm not going to outright say who I think will sit the Iron Throne, but those of you have read it I think it will be a certain bastard son and a woman from across the sea.


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## Empty Hands

Omar B said:


> The thing with this series is, nobody could ever finish it.  The cast so large, all the houses vieing for power, etc.  I've read through the series twice so far and I still have to consult the glossary and really have to think about who's who.



He definitely caught Robert Jordan disease.  This thing was originally supposed to be a trilogy, then he kept expanding the plot and storylines and complexity.  Now he has expanded it to such an extent that he has paralyzed himself, and seems incapable of writing the rest.  A Feast for Crows is very instructive in that regard - much like Jordan's later books, the plot moved much slower, less happened over less time, and not all of the major characters were even in the book.  I have a bad feeling about this.

At least the show looks cool, although I'm not sure how far it will get.  HBO likes to cancel expensive series like this one - see Carnivale or Rome.



Omar B said:


> I'm not going to outright say who I think will sit the Iron Throne, but those of you have read it I think it will be a certain bastard son and a woman from across the sea.



Oh, that's a given.  I want to see the Clegane brothers duke it out, that would be epic.  Wait, did Gregor survive his fight with Martell?  I thought he did.


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## Omar B

Gregor is dead, left on the side of the road by Arry.

My whole thing with the series is that GRRM seems to have no endgame.  The story is so complex, it's wheels within wheels.  He seems to be one of those authors who writes from the hip rather than outlining in great detail the arc of the story then writing to that.  It's the type of story (that if were simpler) could be written by other authors for years to come even if GRRM passes.  As it is though, it's pretty much impossible.

But that's apart of the beauty of it.  It's so different from the literature I usually read.  The characters so gray, that you really have no idea what's coming next but when it happens you are both shocked and accept it because you could see coming from that character conceivably.


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## Cryozombie

I am excited, but Cautiously so.  HBO NEVER, NEVER, NEVER seem to be able to remotely follow the storylines of the novels they bring to the screen.  I worry that they will diverge this so far from the books (ala True Blood) it will just be a story about characters with the same name.

Hey Omar, on a side note as a Conan fan, I'm gonna recommend you check out Joe Abercrombies' First Law trilogy if you haven't already read them... excellent books.  Barbarian Tribe kinda stuff.


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## Omar B

Note made Cryo.

Tell me more though.  Is it more of the Conan type story with a main character or is it more of a GRRM story with many characters and no real lead.  I love stories driven by a main character, though, story driven ones like GRRM are good too, though they can get a bit messy when you can't throw your support behind a character.


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## billc

This series was great but I stopped at a feast for crows, the magic seemed to have been lost.  Yeah, the joe abercrombie books are great.  The Blade Itself is the first in the series and it is gritty and fun.  The likeable inquisitor is a great character.  He manages to make a torturer a sympathetic figure.  He is a great author,  everyone who likes dark fantasy should give him a read.


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## chrispillertkd

I'm looking forward to the series, although I'll probably have to wait until it's released on DVD to see it since I don't have HBO.

GRRM's series is great. One of the best fantasy series written in the last 25 years or so. But Omar is quite right, at this point I find it hard to believe GRRM has an end game. I hope to God he hasn't simply tossed his original outline and has decided to "wing it." I doubt this is the case but he's been suffering from diarrhea of the pen lately and needs to realize that _A Feast for Crows_, while well written, did little to advance the series. He really should concentrate on about half of the characters he's got in POV chapters, get Daenerys back to the Seven Kingdoms and get on with it. And frankly, if John Snow and Daenerys end up getting married I'll be disappointed as it seems to obvious for GRRM. I'd rather see John become King of the North in an independent Winterfell. 

With all the talk of the three-headed dragon of course, that will mean Daenerys will take two husband as an "unforeseen" twist on Aegon marrying his sisters. I'm betting Tyrion Lanister is husband number two - if GRRM continues in the way that he seems to be going with this topic. I hope that I'm wrong about this but I've read the series each time a new book came out and after 4 times through, especially after _Crows_ I'm afraid Martin thinks this would be "k3wl."

This all being said, the trailer looks great. Hopefully the fact that HBO actually has the series in production will motivate GRRM to get on the ball with his writing. I mean if one more _Wild Cards_ volume comes out before _A Dance of Dragons_ I'm going to kill someone. 

Pax,

Chris


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## Omar B

I don't so much think he tossed out his outline, I just don't think there was one to begin with.  He comes from a TV background first and I think he had a great concept, great characters and had a general thrust of what he wanted to happen, that is a united kingdom thrown into war after the king dies with the specter of limited resources because of the winter coming and the true heir to the throne amassing an army in another country.  As a concept it works and could drive a TV series, comic series or hell, even a series of books seemingly forever (if the author just wrote the damn things).

To me I never understood the authors who just wrote from the hip.  Sometimes the books come out good, most of the time they are a meandering mess then the book ends.  

I'm of the Victor Hugo, Arthur Conan Doyle, Ayn Rand, Ian Fleming, John Gardner, Tom Clancy, Jeffrey Deaver mindset where you plot, outline, research, figure out all the mechanics of the story, then write.  Deaver has been known to have 150 outlines that condense the outline, research, character sketches into one piece, yet his books come out to be about 300 pages.  Thing is, everything works perfectly.  It's also the method most mystery and thriller writers use.  He's been known to go through this process for some 6 months to make sure everything works, but the actual writing of the book is just a few weeks, enough time to write it out in long form and add the dialog.


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## WC_lun

I really enjoyed this series when it started, but feel it is starting to flounder a bit.  Seems to have gotten lost in the world he created.  I hope a conclusion is coming soon.

TV or movie versions of good fantasy work make me nervious.  They rarely come close to the picture my own mind created.  There are notable exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.  Hope springs eternal though


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## Omar B

Behold, the Iron Throne!






New preview - http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/2011/1/16/iron-throne-preview.html


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## chrispillertkd

Any idea who has been cast as Syrio Forel?

Pax,

Chris


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## billc

Chrispillertkd,  I don't know where you live or if you already have it but Netflix is a great way to watch a television series.  I have watched several that way and it is pretty cool.


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## chrispillertkd

Yep, I have netflix. Usually have to wait until the series - or at least the season - is completed before it goes to netflix, though. I'm really lookig forward to it. I just hope we don't get to the end of season 4 and are still waiting for GRRM to complete book 5!

Pax,

Chris


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## Nomad

I really enjoyed the first book, but have to say that I think the quality (and my interest) dropped quickly after that.  I haven't bothered with Book 4.  

Agree that he has the same bug that hit Jordan... too huge and complex to make a cohesive story out of, and too large a cast.  1000 page books where very little actually happens.  Too bad.

That said, I might redo The Wheel of Time now that Brandon Sanderson has picked up the torch (and there's an end in sight).  Just finished "Mistborn", and was quite impressed with his writing.


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## CoryKS

Nomad said:


> I really enjoyed the first book, but have to say that I think the quality (and my interest) dropped quickly after that. I haven't bothered with Book 4.


 
Same here. I might reread it if I'm shown evidence that the man has a point and is eventually going to reach it. The first book was _very_ good, but I stopped reading after Book 3 as well.


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## Omar B

Jordan never appealed to me, too high fantasy for my tastes.  Besides, I read his Conan books when he was doing those and they were pretty dreadful.  You could have replaced Conan with any other character and told the same story, he seemed to not know what made Conan unique, ever story had an evil wizard to defeat and there was always a damsel who annoys the crap out of Conan but he keeps her around and protects her for some reason.  Yes I read all 6 of them but that's because I'm at heart a complteist and I can't help myself.

As for ASOFI, I think GRRM could bring it back in.  Firstly, limit the "chapter characters"  I never understood why you could not tell a good part of the story in one chapter involving more people in one place ... he's done it before, during most of the big events and wars.  Dudes like The Onion Knight don't need their own chapters when he's with a king and army and that king has chapters devoted to him.

From there you can tell the story in a quite linear fashion.  In fact, forget character chapters and just name the chapter after the location it takes place and stick to a straight 3rd person narrative.


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## Empty Hands

Nomad said:


> That said, I might redo The Wheel of Time now that Brandon Sanderson has picked up the torch (and there's an end in sight).  Just finished "Mistborn", and was quite impressed with his writing.



Do it.  The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight are pretty awesome.  I like Sanderson a lot, and he is basically achieving the impossible here.


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## CoryKS

Empty Hands said:


> Do it. The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight are pretty awesome. I like Sanderson a lot, and he is basically achieving the impossible here.


 
I'm on my second run, thanks to the feedback I've received about the Sanderson books.  I'm about a third into The Great Hunt.  What's nice about rereading it is, you pick up things that didn't seem important the first time through, but were.


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## Empty Hands

CoryKS said:


> I'm on my second run, thanks to the feedback I've received about the Sanderson books.  I'm about a third into The Great Hunt.  What's nice about rereading it is, you pick up things that didn't seem important the first time through, but were.



The Eye of the World upon re-reading, particularly at the end, is when you realize that Jordan originally intended the series to be a lot shorter.


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## CoryKS

Empty Hands said:


> The Eye of the World upon re-reading, particularly at the end, is when you realize that Jordan originally intended the series to be a lot shorter.


 
I noticed that.  I think they do that in case the series flops, that way it has an identifiable end to the story.


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## Cryozombie

OK, so the first episode of Game of Thrones Aired...

Thoughts?


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## Sukerkin

Not seen it yet ... so until I have I will not be looking in this thread again :lol:.

Hopefully will watch it tonight.


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## Empty Hands

Cryozombie said:


> OK, so the first episode of Game of Thrones Aired...
> 
> Thoughts?



The White Walkers were not at all what I expected.  Only seen the first 15 minutes though.


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## Sukerkin

It is following the modern TV trend of there being no real 'good guys' in the story, too much nudity and general shagging that have nothing to do with the story and not enough swordplay.

They get a pass on the first because the story itself is populated by unsavoury, self-serving, characters.  

The second point of too much 'sex' might seem an odd complaint but it truly does detract as it is clearly just an artifice to keep young chaps watching.  It draws attention away from what should be important in a non-pornographic story and it's a cheap device, like overly fast cutting in a scene, to gloss over any shortfalls in quality.

The third point shall hopefully be rectified in future episodes.


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## Omar B

I liked it so far.  It rushed the first 4 chapters and changed the sex scenes.  Kahl and Dani have sex in view of everyone to seal the marriage.  Cercei and Jamie had sex in a fully furnished room in the tower reserved for the guests, not in some shoddy disused tower.

Otherwise I liked it.  I want to give it a second viewing tomorrow though.  I did notice the Dothraki don't have their bells on.  Longclaw is a way more formidable weapon than I imagined.  I knew it was large but damn!


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## granfire

Sukerkin said:


> It is following the modern TV trend of there being no real 'good guys' in the story, too much nudity and general shagging that have nothing to do with the story and not enough swordplay.
> 
> They get a pass on the first because the story itself is populated by unsavoury, self-serving, characters.
> 
> The second point of too much 'sex' might seem an odd complaint but it truly does detract as it is clearly just an artifice to keep young chaps watching.  It draws attention away from what should be important in a non-pornographic story and it's a cheap device, like overly fast cutting in a scene, to gloss over any shortfalls in quality.
> 
> The third point shall hopefully be rectified in future episodes.


LOL, so there actually _is _such a thing as too much nudity?!



Omar B said:


> I liked it so far.  It rushed the first 4 chapters and changed the sex scenes.  Kahl and Dani have sex in view of everyone to seal the marriage.  Cercei and Jamie had sex in a fully furnished room in the tower reserved for the guests, not in some shoddy disused tower.
> 
> Otherwise I liked it.  I want to give it a second viewing tomorrow though.  I did notice the Dothraki don't have their bells on.  Longclaw is a way more formidable weapon than I imagined.  I knew it was large but damn!





Omar B said:


> I liked it so far.  It rushed the first 4 chapters and changed the sex scenes.  Kahl and Dani have sex in view of everyone to seal the marriage.  Cercei and Jamie had sex in a fully furnished room in the tower reserved for the guests, not in some shoddy disused tower.
> 
> Otherwise I liked it.  I want to give it a second viewing tomorrow though.  I did notice the Dothraki don't have their bells on.  Longclaw is a way more formidable weapon than I imagined.  I knew it was large but damn!




Now, really Omar..._twice?!

:lfao:
_


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## Sukerkin

granfire said:


> LOL, so there actually _is _such a thing as too much nudity?!



Aye, there is, bizarre as it may sound coming from a bloke .  

What makes it particularly distasteful in the context of this series are the heavy overtones of misogyny that accompany it.  Perhaps it's just the mood I was in when I watched it?  Or pehaps it's because I'm stereotypically English?  Have a gander yourself and see what you think.


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## billc

I have noticed with cable shows that the first show of a new series will have a lot of sex and nudity.  Rome, The tudors, True Blood, Spartacus, Spartacus: Gods of the Arena and now Camelot, so far.  I haven't seen game of thrones yet but from what has been said here, it seems to be following the same technique.  

My theory is that in order to get the go ahead for the series they have to get it past the jaded, warped executives that control wether a show gets a full run or not.  Hence, lots of sex and nudity, that really are unnecassary for the show to be successful.  From the other shows, I would bet that the next episodes will gradually reduce the amount of sex and nudity since the warped gods of cable have been appeased with the sacrifice of the self-respect of young actors and actresses desperate to be in a show.  You will have to let me know if others out there have noted this trend.


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## granfire

Sukerkin said:


> Aye, there is, bizarre as it may sound coming from a bloke .
> 
> What makes it particularly distasteful in the context of this series are the heavy overtones of misogyny that accompany it.  Perhaps it's just the mood I was in when I watched it?  Or pehaps it's because I'm stereotypically English?  Have a gander yourself and see what you think.



LOL, no, I know what you mean. I read a novel by a favorite romance writer of mine...the story was wonderful, actually a very good mystery, but gawd the shagging got in the way! :lfao:

Really one of the few times you really want to skip the 'good part' (as JD Robb I here the mystery series she wrote is good, one ought to start with the first one)


Alas, I think I will miss it, I have no earthly idea where to find the visuals of this shaggadelic adventure...


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## Empty Hands

Sukerkin said:


> What makes it particularly distasteful in the context of this series are the heavy overtones of misogyny that accompany it.



Have you read the books?  Because the series is faithfully following the books in this respect.  There is a lot of rape, including of children, and two main characters have a secret, incestuous union that produces several children.  Daenarys is 13 years old when she is sold to the warlord Drogo, and part of her growth as a character, if you can believe it, is learning to love him and learning to love making love to him.

The society depicted is indeed heavily misogynistic.  Outrageously so.  Classist too.  However, it isn't a misogynist book IMO.  The book makes clear how strong women (Cersei, Arya, Brienne) are oppressed by their society, and fight against its strictures in order to live out their true selves - even if that true self is to be as vicious, power-mongering and cruel as the men (Cersei).  The book also shows how women who buy into their lesser position, even by their nature (Sansa), are not spared from the oppression.    The society depicted is thoroughly vile, top to bottom, so much so that the few decent people (Ned Stark, Catelyn, Tyrion, Jon Snow, etc.) stand out by their very unusualness.  Not that that spares the good people anything - Westeros chews them up and spits them out the same as anyone else, maybe worse.


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## Omar B

So what if there is nudity?  It's on a premium cable channel at night, plus, that's how the book was written.


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## granfire

LOL, we have been Barneyfied...


However, sometimes it can get in the way...


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## Sukerkin

Omar B said:


> So what if there is nudity? It's on a premium cable channel at night, plus, that's how the book was written.


 
It may indeed be how the book is written (and I have read them tho' a long time ago) but I'd rather not be snuggled up on the sofa with the missus to watch a well-made fantasy series and be confronted with some poor lass being 'taken from behind' against her will.  That offends my standards of taste and decency, which, I know, makes me an anachronism.  There are ways of letting you know the score about the moral bankruptcy of the milieu without being blatant about it.

We shall see if things calm down a bit in the next episode.


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## Cryozombie

Empty Hands said:


> The society depicted is thoroughly vile, top to bottom, so much so that the few decent people (Ned Stark, Catelyn, Tyrion, Jon Snow, etc.) stand out by their very unusualness. Not that that spares the good people anything - Westeros chews them up and spits them out the same as anyone else, maybe worse.


 
I agree 100%.  I was explaining to my Girlfriend who has never read the books, when she was talking about what *******s most of the characters on the show were, that the series is completly filled with people you really just wanna see get what's coming to them, and failry often do...


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## Cryozombie

Sukerkin said:


> It may indeed be how the book is written (and I have read them tho' a long time ago) but I'd rather not be snuggled up on the sofa with the missus to watch a well-made fantasy series and be confronted with some poor lass being 'taken from behind' against her will. That offends my standards of taste and decency, which, I know, makes me an anachronism. There are ways of letting you know the score about the moral bankruptcy of the milieu without being blatant about it.
> 
> We shall see if things calm down a bit in the next episode.


 
I get where you are coming from, but... _thats how the books were written_. I question whether it should be omitted because you are offended by it, or should you recognize that is what the Author wrote and find more suitable entertainment for your tastes?

I look at it like this: Could you imagine me getting in a Huff because the "Dresden Files" depicted the use of magic, which is against my religion... even tho it's a series of books written about a Wizard? It would seem silly to suggest that they make it a straight up PI series? 

I only bring this up because one of my reservations about the series in the first place was that they would water down the sex, violence and non-pc topics and relationships that in many cases are vital to driving the story to make the Show more acceptable. *I* for one am glad they do not appear to be doing that.


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## Bruno@MT

When I started reading it, I thought the game of thrones ended after the third book.
And I thought it was brilliant! 

Sure, it was open-ended, but so is life itself. And there was enough closure to be left with a sense that people's lives had changed dramatically.


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## granfire

Cryozombie said:


> I get where you are coming from, but... _thats how the books were written_. I question whether it should be omitted because you are offended by it, or should you recognize that is what the Author wrote and find more suitable entertainment for your tastes?
> 
> I look at it like this: Could you imagine me getting in a Huff because the "Dresden Files" depicted the use of magic, which is against my religion... even tho it's a series of books written about a Wizard? It would seem silly to suggest that they make it a straight up PI series?
> 
> I only bring this up because one of my reservations about the series in the first place was that they would water down the sex, violence and non-pc topics and relationships that in many cases are vital to driving the story to make the Show more acceptable. *I* for one am glad they do not appear to be doing that.




Well, there is this thing in movies:
It can be implied.

The old movies were pretty good at implying. You never saw a naked body but the subject matter was far from tame. I have personal shock moment from rewatching some of that old stuff.
I mean, if you were to show it, the movie would get an X rated...maybe more than one! 

Then again, I have seen all the softporn I ever need to see...back in the good old days when the European marked opened to private stations and a small but influential one invented a game show called 'Tutti Frutti'.

Or you could not watch that other private one from Friday Night til Monday morning...with all the shag movies...


(But I suppose it has to have a reason to be on premium, how else would you get people to pay extra?!)


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## Empty Hands

Cryozombie said:


> I agree 100%.  I was explaining to my Girlfriend who has never read the books, when she was talking about what *******s most of the characters on the show were, that the series is completly filled with people you really just wanna see get what's coming to them, and failry often do...



Out of all the really nasty people in the books, I think it's Walder Frey who bothers me the most.  He isn't the most powerful or even the most cruel, but he sets my teeth on edge.  Even before the Red Wedding.


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## Omar B

granfire said:


> Well, there is this thing in movies:
> It can be implied.
> The old movies were pretty good at implying. You never saw a naked body but the subject matter was far from tame. I have personal shock moment from rewatching some of that old stuff.
> I mean, if you were to show it, the movie would get an X rated...maybe more than one!
> Then again, I have seen all the softporn I ever need to see...back in the good old days when the European marked opened to private stations and a small but influential one invented a game show called 'Tutti Frutti'.
> Or you could not watch that other private one from Friday Night til Monday morning...with all the shag movies...
> (But I suppose it has to have a reason to be on premium, how else would you get people to pay extra?!)



You make a point of things being implied.  But it's on HBO, a premium channel known for going all out with their series.  I think they acquired the books with an eye towards adapting them as is, because they fit the HBO mold quite well.


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> You make a point of things being implied.  But it's on HBO, a premium channel known for going all out with their series.  I think they acquired the books with an eye towards adapting them as is, because they fit the HBO mold quite well.



Like I said, you gotta feed the masses if you want their money 

I am sure if it makes it to cable (like the Sopranos), I am sure much implication will be installed...probably wrecking it, but alas... 



(now, wait...if this is all about watching the bad people getting their just deserts...that would make it a Soap...just with more skin? If that is even possible...)


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## Omar B

A soap with more skin?  Is Steinbeck's The Pearl just about some dude with a pearl?  Your gross simplification of a really great and groundbreaking story is quite shocking.  You've not read them I assume, but I would have assumed from you more than belittling because you seem to take issue with sex and violence on TV.


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## Sukerkin

Err ... humour I think?


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> A soap with more skin?  Is Steinbeck's The Pearl just about some dude with a pearl?  Your gross simplification of a really great and groundbreaking story is quite shocking.  You've not read them I assume, but I would have assumed from you more than belittling because you seem to take issue with sex and violence on TV.





:eye-popping::jaw-dropping::xtrmshock


You did not get it?!

(Nichtlachen-Keinwortz is catching these days)

Well, I didn't read the book, I won't see the show until it makes it to - dunno, cable or netflix (even then I doubt I will, not watching much TV these days) 

However....
Point was made about a lot of violence and sex in the show, that can be distracting to the story flow. (I guess the target audience is clear, it's not the Missus...)

About the plot was said that it's a bunch of nasty people one wants to see getting what's coming to them...
But that is just about like any old soap opera still on TV. You can't wait for soandso to finally go to jail, get punched or killed or whatever. Not to mention of the intermingling relationships....

So their budget is bigger and they show more.

yeah, maybe I am having a problem with sex and violence on TV, I am living in this state for far too long and I find myself getting old....(and then again, I don't like watching things I can do myself....minus the violence...)

:bangahead:


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## Cryozombie

granfire said:


> However....
> Point was made about a lot of violence and sex in the show, that can be distracting to the story flow. (I guess the target audience is clear, it's not the Missus...)



Well, In some cases, sure.  However IMO the sex and violence creates the story flow in this case.

Its "The Game of Thrones" its about political maneuvering and war and all the nastiness that goes along with that in a "Fantasy Kingdom".   The sex and incest and selling of ones sister to gain an army etc... were integral to the political manipulation going on in the realm, not secondary.


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## granfire

Cryozombie said:


> Well, In some cases, sure.  However IMO the sex and violence creates the story flow in this case.
> 
> Its "The Game of Thrones" its about political maneuvering and war and all the nastiness that goes along with that in a "Fantasy Kingdom".   The sex and incest and selling of ones sister to gain an army etc... were integral to the political manipulation going on in the realm, not secondary.




Well, since I won't see it in the near future, I guess I am the blind speaking of color. 

However there is the matter as of tools used to tell a story. 
Sometimes the implied carries more impact than the shown. Imagination is a powerful thing and can carry you much further than an actual image.

It's not like the Pirates of old Hollywood didn't rape and plunder (ore cruesomely murder their victims) but a blood curdling scream can carry you past the mechanics into the individual's hidden fears you can't reach with the direct imagery.

But I gotta go, feed my Seeing Eye dog.


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## CoryKS

This is the series in which a guy gets his head lopped off and a wolf's head sewn on in its place, right? Where a guy gets crowned with molten gold? And the sexual content is the problem?


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## granfire

CoryKS said:


> This is the series in which a guy gets his head lopped off and a wolf's head sewn on in its place, right? Where a guy gets crowned with molten gold? And the sexual content is the problem?



LOL, cool, right! 

:lfao:


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## Omar B

granfire said:


> Well, since I won't see it in the near future, I guess I am the blind speaking of color.
> However there is the matter as of tools used to tell a story.
> Sometimes the implied carries more impact than the shown. Imagination is a powerful thing and can carry you much further than an actual image.
> It's not like the Pirates of old Hollywood didn't rape and plunder (ore cruesomely murder their victims) but a blood curdling scream can carry you past the mechanics into the individual's hidden fears you can't reach with the direct imagery.
> But I gotta go, feed my Seeing Eye dog.



Yeah, they could imply the sex and violence, but then why not imply the war of 7 kingdoms too?  Personally, I wanna see the Direwolf (a wolf the size of a horse!) tearing into people in battle under the Stark Banner, some of my favorite battle sequences ever written.

It's not as if sex and violence just happened on TV and it's all localized in one show.  There's sex, incest, violence, slavery, war, but it's also a reflection of Europe in the middle ages.


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> Yeah, they could imply the sex and violence, but then why not imply the war of 7 kingdoms too?  Personally, I wanna see the Direwolf (a wolf the size of a horse!) tearing into people in battle under the Stark Banner, some of my favorite battle sequences ever written.
> 
> It's not as if sex and violence just happened on TV and it's all localized in one show.  There's sex, incest, violence, slavery, war, but it's also a reflection of Europe in the middle ages.




Keep breaking my heart and I will have to sob into my pillow tonight!


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## Empty Hands

SPOILERS - TO THE END OF THE SEASON

So we're past episode 8 now.  What do you all think?  I think the show has done a pretty amazing job.  I just watched Greatjon Umber get his fingers bitten off by Robb's wolf.   Or Shagga!  Some of the moments on this show have been _amazing_.  I was literally on the edge of my seat during the attempt on Bran's life, and the fight between the assassin and Catelyn, ending with Bran's wolf tearing his throat out.  Or Khal Drogo's fight in the last episode!  Amazing.

The acting has been damn good too.  Robert and Cersei's scene, invented as it was.  Varys and Littlefinger.  Tyrion!  The kids have done a pretty amazing job too, especially Arya.

I'm curious to see how they will handle the birth of the dragons.

The only complaint is a restricted sense of scale.  Khal Drogo's khalasar in particular looks like it's composed of about 40 people.  Nearly all of the Vaes Dothrak scenes took place in tents.  King Robert's hunting party was four people, etc.  I understand the constraints though, and I prefer a smaller scale while accomplishing excellent acting and set work to sacrificing those elements.

"The First Sword of Braavos does not run!"

"I already have!"


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## Omar B

It's been fun so far, I'll wait for the end of the season for my final verdict.  I hate the fact that they cleave so close to the books at some points then all of a sudden there are scenes just thrown in for no reason that don't do a thing to forward the story.  Or the people who know things they should not know.


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## Cryozombie

Even with the minor changes I think they are doing a phenominal job.  I was so afraid this was gonna go the way of "True Blood" (although those deviated more and more AFTER the first season so we will see) and just be absolultey nothing like the books.  I am glad to see I was wrong.


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## lindtoholic

I've had to restrain myself from reading through the other replies as I have yet to read the series yet (please don't hate on me!) although I do intend to once I have the money to, or failing that I am going to request them as presents. I absolutely love the show - and that is an understatement - so I cannot wait for yet more to be released. In particular the second season. 

The Facebook page for Game of Thrones is fantastic for keeping up with casting - I can't say I know who's playing who off by heart, but if you have Facebook I highly recommend taking a look there, as it's bound to reveal either the actor cast, or the potential actors for the roles.


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## Omar B

lindtoholic said:


> I've had to restrain myself from reading through the other replies as I have yet to read the series yet (please don't hate on me!) although *I do intend to once I have the money to,* or failing that I am going to request them as presents. I absolutely love the show - and that is an understatement - so I cannot wait for yet more to be released. In particular the second season.
> 
> The Facebook page for Game of Thrones is fantastic for keeping up with casting - I can't say I know who's playing who off by heart, but if you have Facebook I highly recommend taking a look there, as it's bound to reveal either the actor cast, or the potential actors for the roles.



A $7.00 paper back breaks the bank for ya?

By the way, there will be no Blackfish in the series.  I was wondering why he didnt show up in the previous season, now I hear they are just doing away with yet another great character.


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## Ken Morgan

Library ?


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## Ken Morgan




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## Steve

Figured I'd necro this thread instead of starting a new one.  I picked up Season 1 on blu ray and am through episode 3.  I am completely unfamiliar with the books or the story and have to say that these are EXCELLENT.  I am going to watch the entire season before reading the books, but I love the way they weave traditional fantasy elements throughout, but they are so low key that the political machinations take the front seat.  

I haven't read the entire thread for fear of picking up spoilers, but I'm trying to watch one episode each night, after the kids are in bed.  So far, I am completely hooked.


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## Sukerkin

Aye, sensible to make sure the kids are in bed when watching this.  I enjoyed the first season a great deal but there was still too much unnecessary fornication in it.

Season two is shaping up to be even worse, sad to say.


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## KempoGuy06

Sukerkin said:


> Aye, sensible to make sure the kids are in bed when watching this.  I enjoyed the first season a great deal but there was still too much unnecessary fornication in it.
> 
> Season two is shaping up to be even worse, sad to say.



The show is tame compared to what martin put in the books.

Sex is a driving force in the series

B


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## Steve

You can call me a prude if you'd like, but I'm not up for watching it with my 15 and 16 year old children.  My son's like, "But my friends all watch it."  And I'm like, "Yeah, well I've never really liked any of your friends." 

Seriously, though, I'm only three episodes into season 1, but the sex seems to me to be part of the story.  I'm not up on the names yet, but the imp's character was established.  The twincest situation was important to the plot.  The blonde, dragon lady is clearly growing from girl to woman, and I get the impression that she's going to be a force before too long.  In other words, from someone who is completely unfamiliar with the characters or story, it is graphic, but not gratuitous... if that makes sense.  And they tend to be short scenes.  

I'll tell you this is nothing compared to the first season of Spartacus... that was a virtual orgy of sex and violence with a little plot thrown in.  This is WAY better so far.

As I said before, I'm completely hooked.  The young Stark daughter with Needle is a terrific character and I can't wait to see how she progresses.


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## Sukerkin

Aye, I am familiar with the original works - I read them when they were first published.  

It is one thing to accept something as part of the 'world' when you read the written word and quite another when it is it put on the screen to draw in the young male audience with a bit of T & A spiced up with some violence.

I don't expect people to agree with me, I'm just telling what my reaction as a well brought up middle-aged Englishman is.  I am not alone in my views, indeed some of my workmates, who have not read the books, are even more put off by what they see as a cheap trick to try and raise audience figures.


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## KempoGuy06

Steve said:


> You can call me a prude if you'd like, but I'm not up for watching it with my 15 and 16 year old children.  My son's like, "But my friends all watch it."  And I'm like, "Yeah, well I've never really liked any of your friends."
> 
> Seriously, though, I'm only three episodes into season 1, but the sex seems to me to be part of the story.  I'm not up on the names yet, but the imp's character was established.  The twincest situation was important to the plot.  The blonde, dragon lady is clearly growing from girl to woman, and I get the impression that she's going to be a force before too long.  In other words, from someone who is completely unfamiliar with the characters or story, it is graphic, but not gratuitous... if that makes sense.  And they tend to be short scenes.
> 
> I'll tell you this is nothing compared to the first season of Spartacus... that was a virtual orgy of sex and violence with a little plot thrown in.  This is WAY better so far.
> 
> As I said before, I'm completely hooked.  The young Stark daughter with Needle is a terrific character and I can't wait to see how she progresses.



Glad you are enjoying the show. 

I watched the entire first season and then read the 5 books that are out. 

"The books are WAY better than the show!!" A lot of people will say this and in most cases it is true. For this particular show it is VERY true and very important. There are small details the show leaves out that you only pick up in the book. The books give far greater detail to characters and events that are likewise very important and often left to be told by visuals in the show. Im glad you are going to read the books after watching the show. It will make the show that much better.

B


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## Omar B

Yes sex is a big part of it.  It's called Game Of Thrones, it's about people doing everything in their power to grab more power.  It's castle intrigue, betrayal, sex, murder, anything to get ahead.  

It's a political climate where the nobles are not held in check, htere's no press, the nobles run roughshod over each other.  Easily my second favorite fantasy novels ever.


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## Empty Hands

Omar B said:


> Easily my second favorite fantasy novels ever.



What's first?

The first 3 books of A Song of Ice and Fire would have been my favorite fantasy series.  Then books 4 and 5 came out.


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## Omar B

My favorite series ever is Sword Of Truth by Terry Goodkind.  MJore linear with clearer good/bad guys.  But Goodkind is an Objectivist and you can see Rand's influence in the writing, particular further on from the firs few.


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## billc

Sukerkin, I couldn't agree with you more.  I am no prude but the sex is just way over the top for the series to the point it becomes distracting, but not in a good way.  I sit there wondering, where else in the world could you get women to do those things and not have lawyers suing you into the poor house.   This is what I mean, sure, sex is part of the events, but it doesn't have to be shown the way they show it.  I think they could do the old side shots, or implied sex thing they still do on regular television.  There hasn't been one sex scene that couldn't have been done with less graphic nudity and sex.   The show is good enough to not need gratuitous sex to "make it more interesting."  Given that you could do this show without the graphic nudity or sex, how do these guys get away with telling actresses that if they want to be in this show, they have to get naked and have sex on camera.  Any where else and they would be in court.  Hollywood is the only place left where it is possible to get away with this kind of abuse of women.  

I used to think that these cable shows would put all the graphic sex and nudity in the first few episodes to show to the suits in order to get the series made, and then tone it down in later episodes.  That doesn't seem to be the case with this show or some of the others.  I personally think it is a little bit guys having women get naked for them, and lazy story telling.  I think that one of these women should sue one of these productions, knowing that her career will be over, but sueing will help other actresses get jobs without having to submit to this stuff.  Just some thoughts.


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## KempoGuy06

I understand everybody's apprehension with the sex in this show, i have seen many shows where the nudity and sex are unneeded. For this show however it is different, im not going to sit here and say that it is needed, but the books play a heavy emphasis on sex and the show is based on the books. It is an integral part of the era the books are set in. Marriages were sealed with sex, as were alliances between warring houses.

As the story progresses there will be less, i promise that.

B


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## Steve

I don't have any problems with the sex.  i think it's great.  I just don't want to watch it with my kids.


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## Omar B

KempoGuy06 said:


> I understand everybody's apprehension with the sex in this show, i have seen many shows where the nudity and sex are unneeded. For this show however it is different, im not going to sit here and say that it is needed, but the books play a heavy emphasis on sex and the show is based on the books. It is an integral part of the era the books are set in. Marriages were sealed with sex, as were alliances between warring houses.
> 
> As the story progresses there will be less, i promise that.
> 
> B



I don't get how people are getting hung up on the sex.  It's a series based upon seizing powers through any means necessary, and yes, sex is apart of that, as is double crossing, blackmail, etc.  

I wonder how you prudes gonna react when they show the first Westerosi Wedding where the guests undress the couple.  Or the full version of the Dothraki wedding ceremonies with the king taking his prize in front of his entire court.  As excessive as you may think it is, it's still a lot less than in the books.  Just like it's a lot less story on screen.


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## Sukerkin

It is important to understand what it is that is being objected to, by me at least.  It does no good whatsoever to say that it's much worse in the books.  I *know* it is, I've read them, remember, almost (if not actually) before Omar was born .

If you (plural form) are fine with how the series is being portrayed, then that is okay.  I'm not going to judge you because of what is acceptable in your eyes to be seen on television; that is, after all, a question of personal moral sensibilities.

My negative reaction is no doubt a generational thing and almost certainly my being an Englishman brought up in a strictly religious household has it's role to play too.  All I can say is that the overt and violent sexual scenes detract from the story for me and for many of the adults that I know - which rather gives the lie to the phrase "Scenes of an adult nature" if adults don't want to see them :lol:.

For me, HBO is using a rather tattered shroud to pass off near pornography as 'art' and the line that it is "essential to the story" carries no weight for me.  As I said earlier in this thread, you can get across the moral bankruptcy of many of the characters in the story without having to hang it all out to dry.  An audience should be intelligent enough not to need to have it spelled out in 78 point font .   Of course, this is not exactly new for HBO as all their series that I have seen bits of rely on the same 'hook' to drag in the young male viewer.

It's not exactly new to television either, of course.  Even Auntie Beeb put on some pretty salacious fare in the seventies - "I Claudius" for example {:faints whilst blushing:}.

In the end, the line of what is acceptable viewing is a moving target but I can't help but feel, as I age, that the line that marks where 'decency' lies is in danger of being trampled underfoot if 'pushing the boundaries' becomes seen as a necessity just to get some ratings figures.


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## Omar B

Sukerkin said:


> It is important to understand what it is that is being objected to, by me at least.  It does no good whatsoever to say that it's much worse in the books._  I *know* it is, I've read them, remember, almost (if not actually) before Omar was born .
> _
> If you (plural form) are fine with how the series is being portrayed, then that is okay.  I'm not going to judge you because of what is acceptable in your eyes to be seen on television; that is, after all, a question of personal moral sensibilities.
> 
> My negative reaction is no doubt a generational thing and almost certainly my being an Englishman brought up in a strictly religious household has it's role to play too.  All I can say is that the overt and violent sexual scenes detract from the story for me and for many of the adults that I know - which rather gives the lie to the phrase "Scenes of an adult nature" if adults don't want to see them :lol:.
> 
> For me, HBO is using a rather tattered shroud to pass off near pornography as 'art' and the line that it is "essential to the story" carries no weight for me.  As I said earlier in this thread, you can get across the moral bankruptcy of many of the characters in the story without having to hang it all out to dry.  An audience should be intelligent enough not to need to have it spelled out in 78 point font .   Of course, this is not exactly new for HBO as all their series that I have seen bits of rely on the same 'hook' to drag in the young male viewer.
> 
> It's not exactly new to television either, of course.  Even Auntie Beeb put on some pretty salacious fare in the seventies - "I Claudius" for example {:faints whilst blushing:}.
> 
> In the end, the line of what is acceptable viewing is a moving target but I can't help but feel, as I age, that the line that marks where 'decency' lies is in danger of being trampled underfoot if 'pushing the boundaries' becomes seen as a necessity just to get some ratings figures.



But the last book in the series came out last summer, I'm more than a year old.


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## Sukerkin

:gives up:


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## Dirty Dog

Omar B said:


> Wow, one response to a thread about possibly the greatest series ever written.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you notice Joff on the Iron Throne?  Or Danny holding the dragon egg?  Or the tiny peek we got at the wall?  Insane!  Or The Mountain Who Rides and his dog shaped helm!



Small correction. The Mountain Who Rides is the elder brother of The Hound. I do not think they both wear dog hats.


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## Omar B

Yeah, mmy mistake mixing up two big giant bad guys who are brothers.  Maybe I should be like the Queen Of Flowers and just refer to my knights as Left and Right.


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## Dirty Dog

Omar B said:


> Yeah, mmy mistake mixing up two big giant bad guys who are brothers.  Maybe I should be like the Queen Of Flowers and just refer to my knights as Left and Right.




Wouldn't work. The Hound is very quick to point out that he is NOT a knight.


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## Omar B

Big giant brothers who wear armor, close enough.  Wayta quibble over me mixing up the helms.


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> Big giant brothers who wear armor, close enough.  Wayta quibble over me mixing up the helms.




because YOU of all people are NOT supposed to get these details wrong! Ever!!!!


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## Omar B

You wouldn't believe what I've done wrong this week alone.  Including breaking my left index finger, thats no guitar for 6 weeks for me.

I just find it facinating the fixation on something quickly posted about a short trailer months ago.  Why is my mixing up one brother for the next an issue months later.


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## Dirty Dog

Omar B said:


> You wouldn't believe what I've done wrong this week alone.  Including breaking my left index finger, thats no guitar for 6 weeks for me.
> 
> I just find it facinating the fixation on something quickly posted about a short trailer months ago.  Why is my mixing up one brother for the next an issue months later.



Because I didn't read the thread months ago, or I'd have pointed it out then. And you're normally a stickler for detail. 

And a single correction hardly counts as a "fixation"...  Frankly, you've made more posts (3) about the matter than I have. So maybe fixation IS the correct term...


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## Omar B

Details, fixation, all qualities that made me rich before I finished college off of playing guitar.


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> You wouldn't believe what I've done wrong this week alone.  Including breaking my left index finger, thats no guitar for 6 weeks for me.
> 
> I just find it facinating the fixation on something quickly posted about a short trailer months ago.  Why is my mixing up one brother for the next an issue months later.




Says the man who picks any minor detail out in over 40 years of Superman lore.....

Sorry to hear about your finger though! Sending healing thoughts your way.


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## Omar B

Superman is more important.


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## granfire

Omar B said:


> Superman is more important.



:lfao:

Ok, i think I can go with that.

still, it's out of character for you.


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## KempoGuy06

Sukerkin said:


> It is important to understand what it is that is being objected to, by me at least.  It does no good whatsoever to say that it's much worse in the books.  I *know* it is, I've read them, remember, almost (if not actually) before Omar was born .
> 
> If you (plural form) are fine with how the series is being portrayed, then that is okay.  I'm not going to judge you because of what is acceptable in your eyes to be seen on television; that is, after all, a question of personal moral sensibilities.
> 
> My negative reaction is no doubt a generational thing and almost certainly my being an Englishman brought up in a strictly religious household has it's role to play too.  All I can say is that the overt and violent sexual scenes detract from the story for me and for many of the adults that I know - which rather gives the lie to the phrase "Scenes of an adult nature" if adults don't want to see them :lol:.
> 
> For me, HBO is using a rather tattered shroud to pass off near pornography as 'art' and the line that it is "essential to the story" carries no weight for me.  As I said earlier in this thread, you can get across the moral bankruptcy of many of the characters in the story without having to hang it all out to dry.  An audience should be intelligent enough not to need to have it spelled out in 78 point font .   Of course, this is not exactly new for HBO as all their series that I have seen bits of rely on the same 'hook' to drag in the young male viewer.
> 
> It's not exactly new to television either, of course.  Even Auntie Beeb put on some pretty salacious fare in the seventies - "I Claudius" for example {:faints whilst blushing:}.
> 
> In the end, the line of what is acceptable viewing is a moving target but I can't help but feel, as I age, that the line that marks where 'decency' lies is in danger of being trampled underfoot if 'pushing the boundaries' becomes seen as a necessity just to get some ratings figures.



fair enough. 

i see where you are coming from

B


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