# To past   critics of killing intruders, I give you..



## Darth F.Takeda (Jul 25, 2007)

..This.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290460,00.html


Sure you could go all your life without any major  assults, but these kind of people do exist, they do things like the above and it's a good reason to shot, stab or beat anyone who forces or covertly enters your home.


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## terryl965 (Jul 25, 2007)

Yea Darth it is just about everywhere, intruder should be treated as intruder when they break in and not house guest.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 25, 2007)

That's why it's woe be to those inside my (parents') house uninvited, unannounced and unidentified. 
That's why I'll have to pin my hopes on a jury that'll understand the danger of a stranger in the home, because the sucker(s) are dead.


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2007)

Here is a link to more updated information.  Since this happened, its been in the paper and on the news everyday.  The Doctor was very well known, and this is certainly taking a toll on the residents of Cheshire.

There have been many threads on here about prison, the treatment prisoners, get, etc., but IMHO, my heart only bleeds for the scumbags so many times.  These two animals have been in and out of prison.  Due to the extreme graphic nature of this, these people should never see the light of day.  There is no hope for these two, none at all!  

Interestingly enough, people affiliated with the courts are saying that there needs to be an investigation into the system.  Ya think!! Here is a link to that.

My heart really goes out to the community, but even moreso to the Doctor and the relatives.


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## Sapper6 (Jul 25, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Is your state a "Castle Doctrine State"?

If not, petition your legislative officials to support the rights within your home.


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
> 
> Is your state a "Castle Doctrine State"?
> 
> If not, petition your legislative officials to support the rights within your home.


 

Hmm...if I'm reading right, looks like CT falls into the Duty to Retreat category.  So, my bedroom is upstairs.  So, if someone breaks in at 3am, I'm supposed to get out of bed, go downstairs with my wife and dog, and walk out the front door, according to what I'm reading.  

Actually, what will most likely happen, is I'll pick up the nearest blunt object and use it to defend myself.  Chances are, I probably wont have time to leave.  They're coming into my house without an invite.  That being said, I'm going to defend whats mine, regardless of the law in place.  If I go up the river, I guess I'll deal with that later.  One of two things will happen:  Either I will get seriously hurt or they will.  If I'm lucky it'll be them. 

Please dont take my frustration on this as a slam on you Sapper.  My frustration is with the messed up laws in the state where I live.


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## still learning (Jul 25, 2007)

Hello, I bet if you check the bad guys records?  ...they never server there full terms and were release many times before!

FBI records shows over 75% of crimes comes from REPEAT OFFENDERS.....many release early for so call "good behavior" or to make space for the incoming repeat offenders caught again and again.

Only in America we release the bad guys ( to only go back out to commit more crimes..but NOW more deadly/er too!

It cost YOU the tax payer $35,000 a year to keep one prisoner alive in a cell each year.  (20 years = $700,000 w/No inflation). They get medical attention,3 meals a day, laundry service, (room and board). They can have TV's, radios, reading materials...almost the comfort of a home.

Guess what the do not have to pay taxes or up keep for their time. (FREE)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
America NEED's to wake up?  Get serious about crime and time.

Drugs will never end?  ....because we let them out so easly....

Rapist/Predators-(99% are never cure by jail time!) ....yet we let time out after a short time in Prison.....(only to have them do it over and over and over.
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Our laws are suppose to made by govenment and not by religion beliefs....should be a separation of thoughts here!

....Just my belief's on this...........Aloha 

PS: Is is sad the innocent dies.............


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 25, 2007)

MJS said:


> Hmm...if I'm reading right, looks like CT falls into the Duty to Retreat category. So, my bedroom is upstairs. So, if someone breaks in at 3am, I'm supposed to get out of bed, go downstairs with my wife and dog, and walk out the front door, according to what I'm reading.
> 
> Actually, what will most likely happen, is I'll pick up the nearest blunt object and use it to defend myself. Chances are, I probably wont have time to leave. They're coming into my house without an invite. That being said, I'm going to defend whats mine, regardless of the law in place. If I go up the river, I guess I'll deal with that later. One of two things will happen: Either I will get seriously hurt or they will. If I'm lucky it'll be them.
> 
> Please dont take my frustration on this as a slam on you Sapper. My frustration is with the messed up laws in the state where I live.



Actually while talking to an ADA (* don't ask *) a few years ago he explained to me that if you live in a two tory house you should have an escape plan if there is a fire in the stairwell. So since you are expected to have a safe way out of your house in case of a fire, you should take the route to leave if there is an intruder.  I asked him about this escape plan and if it did not or would it not make the house more accessible to intruders? He said if they come in that way then go down the stairs.  

The good news is that Michigan changed many of its' basic laws last year. So this nonsense and craziness of protecting the intruder in your house.


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Actually while talking to an ADA (* don't ask *) a few years ago he explained to me that if you live in a two tory house you should have an escape plan if there is a fire in the stairwell. So since you are expected to have a safe way out of your house in case of a fire, you should take the route to leave if there is an intruder. I asked him about this escape plan and if it did not or would it not make the house more accessible to intruders? He said if they come in that way then go down the stairs.
> 
> The good news is that Michigan changed many of its' basic laws last year. So this nonsense and craziness of protecting the intruder in your house.


 
Well, heres the problem.  I live in a condo.  I have a garage, then the main living area, then the bedrooms upstairs.  There is one set of stairs to go up and down from the main living area to the bedrooms.  Could I open the window, pop out the screen and jump to the deck?  Possibly, but its still pretty high up there, so chances are, I'm going to injure myself in the fall.  I also have a patio set out there, so I'd probably crash onto that.  Assuming that I was capable of using that route, I'm still stuck.  The sliding glass doors are locked from the inside.  Its still pretty high to jump from the deck to the ground below.  Regardless of whether or not I'm capable of doing this, I still have my wife to worry about.  She may not be capable or willing.  And despite what some say about their pets, I'm not leaving the dog behind.  

Additionally, whats to say that the people breaking in are going to let us leave?  

So you see, in the long run, I'd rather take my chances with the intruders and the staircase.  Either way its a crappy situation.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 25, 2007)

I am in no way an advocate of using violence as a solution to a problem but it seems to me that if someone breaks into your house and is not content with thievery of _things_ (that I can replace) on the ground floor then, by dint of their venturing up the stairs, they are offering an explicit threat to both myself and, massively more importantantly, my missus.

In this country, I have no right to defend myself (I'm just a serf when all is said and done).  I rather hoped that America would have more sense .

If a felon has not learned to amend his/her ways after the first prison term then, far-right as it sounds, I'm quite happy (dependant on the crime of course) to append my name to the collective responsibility of their not being a part of society any more.


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## Mr. E (Jul 25, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> I am in no way an advocate of using violence as a solution to a problem but it seems to me that if someone breaks into your house and is not content with thievery of _things_ (that I can replace) on the ground floor then, by dint of their venturing up the stairs, they are offering an explicit threat to both myself and, massively more importantantly, my missus.



If you wait until they start up the stairs, it might be too late. You need to attack, using everything in your power as soon as you can and before they can find out much and can do anything. If they are in your home and don't run like hell when they see you, the only logical thing to assume is that they are there to harm you.

If they run, let them go. If they don't run, do not hesitate to kill them if you can.

This is from the update.



> The two men -- who have lengthy criminal records that include larceny and burglary -- were out on parole Monday when they broke into the home of a prominent Cheshire physician and held his family hostage for hours before setting the home on fire, authorities said.



These animals were out on parole after all they have done? The American legal system has to be fixed if this type of thing can happen.

Lets not beat around the bush, these two *animals* tied two girls aged 11 and 17 to a bed. They are being charged with sexual assault so we can bet that their last hours were not pleasent. Then to try to cover their escape they set fire to the house. These two children's last minutes were in extreme fear as the flames raged through their house towards them. The only mercy is that they died of smoke inhalation rather than the pain of the flames _but these scumbags would not have cared if they had as long as they got away._

These guys are not human. Anyone who would condem someone to a death like that just so they can get away needs to be put down like the mad dog they are.

And the rest of us need to print out a copy of these articles and keep them for the time should we ever need to kill someone in our houses. If any prosecutors try to say that maybe we should have waited until they showed some sort of intent to harm us, we can show the juries the article and say, "knowing that there are people that do this, are *you* willing to take the risk to your families for the criminal's sake?"


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## Sukerkin (Jul 25, 2007)

No argument from me, *Mr E*.  I concur that if someone is in my home and does not flee when I challenge them then the automatic assumption should be that any action I take is justified.

The problem is in proving that 'challenge'.  Gladly I've never had to take it that far.

Fortuitously, the one time someone tried to break into my house (when I was there), all it took was me walking into the bathroom, the window of which they were half way through, to foil the attempt.  Okay, it's true that my laughing may have had something to do with their speedy withdrawal and my response of "What are you doing you daft bastard?  I'm awake!  Come back when I'm out.".

I do so hope that his fall from the second story window didn't hurt {:lie: }


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## BudoTiger (Jul 25, 2007)

ok im from the deep south. natchez, mississippi to be exact. so to put it blunt im a real redneck living in southern california, home of gangs and numerous serial killers. so anyone walking in my house uninvited in the middle of the night is either gonna get the thick end of a pool cue i have to the top of the head or the tip of my katana which ever is closest. my first and foremost duty is to protect my family so thats what im gonna do. as far as im concerned anyone coming in my home uninvited in the middle of the night has ill intentions and will receive ill intentions. if that means i have to face a jury of my pears then i leave my fate in theirs and gods hands.


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2007)

Mr. E said:


> If you wait until they start up the stairs, it might be too late. You need to attack, using everything in your power as soon as you can and before they can find out much and can do anything. If they are in your home and don't run like hell when they see you, the only logical thing to assume is that they are there to harm you.
> 
> If they run, let them go. If they don't run, do not hesitate to kill them if you can.
> 
> ...


 
Wonderful system we have.  IMHO, if they dont learn their lesson after the first time, they should get no more second chances.  Looking at their past record, it was like a revolving door with these dirtbags.  This disgusting act should be the final swing on the door.  The last door they go thru should be the prison cell where they will be living for the rest of their pathetic lives.



KungFuTiger said:


> ok im from the deep south. natchez, mississippi to be exact. so to put it blunt im a real redneck living in southern california, home of gangs and numerous serial killers. so anyone walking in my house uninvited in the middle of the night is either gonna get the thick end of a pool cue i have to the top of the head or the tip of my katana which ever is closest. my first and foremost duty is to protect my family so thats what im gonna do. as far as im concerned anyone coming in my home uninvited in the middle of the night has ill intentions and will receive ill intentions. if that means i have to face a jury of my pears then i leave my fate in theirs and gods hands.


 
My thoughts exactly! 

Mike


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## Kreth (Jul 25, 2007)

Intruder, meet Mr. Mossberg.


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## BrandiJo (Jul 25, 2007)

Sorry gotta go with the group here my home is my home and I would rather face 12 strangers in a court room then having 6 friends carry me. ​


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## thardey (Jul 25, 2007)

Makes me glad I live in a solidly "Castle Doctrine" state. I couldn't imagine trying to "escape" from your own home.


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## seasoned (Jul 25, 2007)

Always be sure it is an intruder and not a family member going to the bathroom. Once you are sure, game time is over. If they are still in the house they get carried out, if they make it out they are not free because I will do the same as if they were still in the house only you now have to carrier them back in. You have to know your capabilities and your limitations. Life one o one.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 25, 2007)

MJS said:


> Well, heres the problem. I live in a condo. I have a garage, then the main living area, then the bedrooms upstairs. There is one set of stairs to go up and down from the main living area to the bedrooms. Could I open the window, pop out the screen and jump to the deck? Possibly, but its still pretty high up there, so chances are, I'm going to injure myself in the fall. I also have a patio set out there, so I'd probably crash onto that. Assuming that I was capable of using that route, I'm still stuck. The sliding glass doors are locked from the inside. Its still pretty high to jump from the deck to the ground below. Regardless of whether or not I'm capable of doing this, I still have my wife to worry about. She may not be capable or willing. And despite what some say about their pets, I'm not leaving the dog behind.
> 
> Additionally, whats to say that the people breaking in are going to let us leave?
> 
> So you see, in the long run, I'd rather take my chances with the intruders and the staircase. Either way its a crappy situation.



MJS, while I do not support having to leave and support the right to defend oneself I was repeating a discussion. I can only imagine this guy asking what would you do in the above mentioned fire? You should have a rope or flexible ladder by a window(s) upstairs so they could be used to go down to the patio. Then on the patio, you also would have a flexible ladder to get down as well. 

I just remember this guy saying you could go to jail and loose your house and car and pension and savings and then who would take care of your wife and kids then? (* See the whole in the arguement here? It is ok to take care of the bad guy, but not the nice guy wife and kid who is in jail for defending them. *)

I know that it seems like a reasonable person would say you were just protecting your family. Although  good investigation might check for blogs or forums to see if you have expressed an opinion, and then use it against you to show you had predermined your actions with taking your chances with defending yourself. 

Now personally, I think you and everyone should be able to defend themselves. I tink it is silly to assume that someone breaking into your house has the rights of posession while you the legal owner have to leave. If is just crazy to think about that in my mind.

I wish you luck. 

Send a letter or e-mail to the sponsor of the firearms forum http://glsda.org/ . They helped lobby here in Michigan. They might be able to help you in your state.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 25, 2007)

There's a reason I have a Sickle (no, seriously) setting next to my bed. No, it's not a Kama, yes it is sharp, yes I do practice with it, no Kama is not a part of the Cuong Nhu circulum (that I know and/or am aware of).


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## MJS (Jul 25, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> MJS, while I do not support having to leave and support the right to defend oneself I was repeating a discussion. I can only imagine this guy asking what would you do in the above mentioned fire? You should have a rope or flexible ladder by a window(s) upstairs so they could be used to go down to the patio. Then on the patio, you also would have a flexible ladder to get down as well.
> 
> I just remember this guy saying you could go to jail and loose your house and car and pension and savings and then who would take care of your wife and kids then? (* See the whole in the arguement here? It is ok to take care of the bad guy, but not the nice guy wife and kid who is in jail for defending them. *)
> 
> ...


 
I know Rich.  Thanks for the link and the advice.   Its really a shame that the laws are set up to protect the bad guy.  Someone breaks into my house with ill intent, I defend myself, and I could end up in jail and possibly get sued by this guy?:idunno:  That makes sense.  When you stop and think of all this, whats the sense of training, owning a firearm, or pretty much anything?  Use it and you're shafted, don't use it and you're still shafted.  Doesnt look like good odds to me.  I say screw it...I'd rather take my chances, than sit back, do nothing and end up tied up while someone rapes my wife.

Mike


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 25, 2007)

MJS said:


> I know Rich. Thanks for the link and the advice.  Its really a shame that the laws are set up to protect the bad guy. Someone breaks into my house with ill intent, I defend myself, and I could end up in jail and possibly get sued by this guy?:idunno: That makes sense. When you stop and think of all this, whats the sense of training, owning a firearm, or pretty much anything? Use it and you're shafted, don't use it and you're still shafted. Doesnt look like good odds to me. I say screw it...I'd rather take my chances, than sit back, do nothing and end up tied up while someone rapes my wife.
> 
> Mike


 
My thoughts exactly. Hay, if they can sue me, can I sue them back? For, like, the emotion distress of having to seriously wound/kill somebody? Getting arrested.. well... I dunno.


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## MJS (Jul 26, 2007)

While surfing the web this morning, I came across this. Looks like it was written in 2007, so its pretty up to date.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm not gonna say publicly what I would do or how I feel except to add a little bit of wisdom I heard awhile back that fits:


Everyone is entitled to their last mistake.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 26, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Everyone is entitled to their last mistake.


 
And their right to take a bullet (or sickle) in the face for it


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## KenpoTex (Jul 26, 2007)

seasoned said:


> Always be sure it is an intruder and not a family member going to the bathroom. Once you are sure, game time is over. If they are still in the house they get carried out, if they make it out they are not free because *I will do the same as if they were still in the house only you now have to carrier them back in.* You have to know your capabilities and your limitations. Life one o one.


 
Everyone seems to have "a friend that's a cop" who told them to drag the body back inside if you kill them outside...

That's ********!  it's called tampering with the evidence.  If you're dumb enough to do this, anybody with half a brain will be able to see the signs and it will NOT be looked upon favorably.

If you shoot/stab/hit them and they flee, let the police catch them.  If you chase them down and finish them off, you've just committed murder.


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## elder999 (Jul 26, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> Everyone seems to have "a friend that's a cop" who told them to drag the body back inside if you kill them outside...
> 
> That's ********! it's called tampering with the evidence. If you're dumb enough to do this, anybody with half a brain will be able to see the signs and it will NOT be looked upon favorably.
> 
> If you shoot/stab/hit them and they flee, let the police catch them. If you chase them down and finish them off, you've just committed murder.


 

..what he said...


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 26, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> Everyone seems to have "a friend that's a cop" who told them to drag the body back inside if you kill them outside...
> 
> That's ********! it's called tampering with the evidence. If you're dumb enough to do this, anybody with half a brain will be able to see the signs and it will NOT be looked upon favorably.
> 
> If you shoot/stab/hit them and they flee, let the police catch them. If you chase them down and finish them off, you've just committed murder.


 

Can't be overemphasized.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 26, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Actually while talking to an ADA (* don't ask *) a few years ago he explained to me that if you live in a two tory house you should have an escape plan if there is a fire in the stairwell. So since you are expected to have a safe way out of your house in case of a fire, you should take the route to leave if there is an intruder. I asked him about this escape plan and if it did not or would it not make the house more accessible to intruders? He said if they come in that way then go down the stairs.
> 
> The good news is that Michigan changed many of its' basic laws last year. So this nonsense and craziness of protecting the intruder in your house.


 
Thank goodness for those changes in laws!


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## jks9199 (Jul 26, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> Everyone seems to have "a friend that's a cop" who told them to drag the body back inside if you kill them outside...
> 
> That's ********!  it's called tampering with the evidence.  If you're dumb enough to do this, anybody with half a brain will be able to see the signs and it will NOT be looked upon favorably.
> 
> If you shoot/stab/hit them and they flee, let the police catch them.  If you chase them down and finish them off, you've just committed murder.


Just to add to that...

An otherwise defensible situation becomes automatically suspiciously guilty-looking if you move the body or change the scene around (other than in a reasonably attempt to render aid).  

In other words... it's typically pretty obvious if you've altered the crime scene.  And if you do so -- you look guilty and wrong, even if you were in the right.


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## MJS (Jul 26, 2007)

Looks like the Prosecutor is seeking the death penalty!

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13762474/detail.html


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## Drac (Jul 26, 2007)

Kreth said:


> Intruder, meet Mr. Mossberg.


 
Just the sound of Mr Mossberg getting ready to speak is enough to get uninvited guests to run-like-hell................


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 26, 2007)

Mr. Mossberg only has to clear his throat but ONCE.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 26, 2007)

MJS said:


> Looks like the Prosecutor is seeking the death penalty!
> 
> http://www.wfsb.com/news/13762474/detail.html


 


I try not to be someone who normally rejoices in someone's upcoming death.

But in this specific case I believe a drink is warranted.


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## Sapper6 (Jul 26, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I try not to be someone who normally rejoices in someone's upcoming death.
> 
> But in this specific case I believe a drink is warranted.


 
be careful with that.  you could easily be construed as a death-monger


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## MJS (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, one of two things needs to happen.  These scumbags need the death penalty or spend the rest of their lives in prison.  Given their long criminal history, and considering they were out on parole and I don't think that B&E, in addition to arson, sexual assault and murder are things that one can do when out on parole, they just dont seem like they learned their lesson from the previous prison time.


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## Thesemindz (Jul 27, 2007)

MJS said:


> Well, one of two things needs to happen. These scumbags need the death penalty or spend the rest of their lives in prison. Given their long criminal history, and considering they were out on parole and I don't think that B&E, in addition to arson, sexual assault and murder are things that one can do when out on parole, they just dont seem like they learned their lesson from the previous prison time.


 
I disagree. I think they learned their lessons well. My understanding is that their previous crimes were mostly non violent property crime. Theft, burglary, breaking and entering. After enough time in prison, they learned to escalate the violence of their actions. They learned to target the wealthy. They learned to take advantage of the love of family to make people vulnerable. They learned to destroy the evidence of their crimes. They learned to seperate and restrain their victims to make escape more difficult. They learned to sexually assault people, because they're gonna kill them anyway, so why not?

If they are parolled again, I'm sure they will have learned a great deal from this experience. The next time they drive a woman to the bank to get money from her account while they torture her family back at home, they'll make sure she isn't able to alert anyone to her predicament. Next time they'll make sure they get away without getting caught. Next time they'll target someone with more to lose. Next time there won't be any survivors.


-Rob


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## MJS (Jul 27, 2007)

Thesemindz said:


> I disagree. I think they learned their lessons well. My understanding is that their previous crimes were mostly non violent property crime. Theft, burglary, breaking and entering. After enough time in prison, they learned to escalate the violence of their actions. They learned to target the wealthy. They learned to take advantage of the love of family to make people vulnerable. They learned to destroy the evidence of their crimes. They learned to seperate and restrain their victims to make escape more difficult. They learned to sexually assault people, because they're gonna kill them anyway, so why not?
> 
> If they are parolled again, I'm sure they will have learned a great deal from this experience. The next time they drive a woman to the bank to get money from her account while they torture her family back at home, they'll make sure she isn't able to alert anyone to her predicament. Next time they'll make sure they get away without getting caught. Next time they'll target someone with more to lose. Next time there won't be any survivors.
> 
> ...


 
True, true, true!!  Sadly the lessons that they should have been learning, they failed.

Mike


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 27, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> be careful with that. you could easily be construed as a death-monger


 

Hell, Sapper:

*I'm American.

*I'm a gun owner(with CCW).

* I'm a martial artist.

* I'm in the State Guard(AND the Civil Air Patrol.

*I'm not liberal.


So to most of these people I probably already AM a "death-monger", may as well have 'em know up front what they're getting into.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 27, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> *I'm not liberal.


 
-cough, cough- Republicans suck -cough cough-

Just kidding!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm not Republican either.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 27, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I'm not Republican either.


 
-cough, cough- Fence Riders suck worse -cough, cough-

Still just kidding!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 27, 2007)

Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian  

(I know you're kidding, no worries).

back to topic, may these diseased lifeforms get nothing they don't deserve, and may they not escape what they DO.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 27, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> may these diseased lifeforms get nothing they don't deserve, and may they not escape what they DO.


 
Better yet, may they try to escpae, and get it two times in a row!


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## Jdokan (Jul 27, 2007)

Intruders in my home are all given the same equal treatment.  Whether bug, mouse or man....It just becomes a bigger hole in the swamp....And to keep the coyotes (or pets) from digging up the body....6' x 8' section of chain link....they can't dig through it....Don't ask me how I know...My daugther thinks those scum bag boyfriends just dumped her.....
Never mess with a Dad that doesn't really care.....
Family: first, last and always....


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## Mr. E (Jul 27, 2007)

Thesemindz said:


> I disagree. I think they learned their lessons well. My understanding is that their previous crimes were mostly non violent property crime. Theft, burglary, breaking and entering.



I have to wonder if they did something much worse, but got their violent crimes tossed out in plea bargining.


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## Thesemindz (Jul 27, 2007)

Mr. E said:


> I have to wonder if they did something much worse, but got their violent crimes tossed out in plea bargining.


 
Entirely possible, and wouldn't suprise me at all. Of course, even that would only be counting the crimes they were actually _caught_ doing.


-Rob


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## seasoned (Jul 28, 2007)

Jdokan said:


> Intruders in my home are all given the same equal treatment. Whether bug, mouse or man....It just becomes a bigger hole in the swamp....And to keep the coyotes (or pets) from digging up the body....6' x 8' section of chain link....they can't dig through it....Don't ask me how I know...My daugther thinks those scum bag boyfriends just dumped her.....
> Never mess with a Dad that doesn't really care.....
> Family: first, last and always....


You are right, I like this better then drigging them back into ther house.


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## jks9199 (Oct 17, 2007)

Bump... highlighting threads on use of force.


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