# CT To Issuse Drivers License To Undocumented Immegrants



## MJS (Jun 26, 2013)

http://www.courant.com/news/connect...drivers-license-0530-20130529,0,6063614.story



> HARTFORD 
> With the Senate's endorsement early Thursday, Connecticut joined a small but growing group of states that allows undocumented immigrants in the U.S. to obtain a special driver's license.
> The bill to allow driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants, which the Senate approved 19-16 with two Democrats joining the Republican minority to vote no, is expected to be signed into law by Gov. Dannel P. Malloy.
> 
> Connecticut is home to 120,000 undocumented immigrants, according to the Pew Hispanic Center; roughly 54,000 could qualify for a driver's license under the bill.



Sorry, but IMHO, this has epic fail written all over it.  Typical though, of the decision makers.  Seems like they're more concerned with a temp. patch to a problem and/or people who're more concerned with getting re-elected, so they have to make people happy.  

Thoughts?


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## arnisador (Jun 26, 2013)

With 120,000 undocumented immigrants, they may be in a hard place--if they're there and working they'll be driving, and getting them ID and driver's insurance may be the best that can be done. I'd like to see a path to citizenship but if you're not deporting them you have to deal with reality.


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## MJS (Jun 26, 2013)

arnisador said:


> With 120,000 undocumented immigrants, they may be in a hard place--if they're there and working they'll be driving, and getting them ID and driver's insurance may be the best that can be done. I'd like to see a path to citizenship but if you're not deporting them you have to deal with reality.



If they're undocumented, I assume that means they're illegal?  If thats the case, then IMHO, they should be a) deporting them or b) making them do thru the proper hoops to become legal citizens.  If the DL isn't going to be used to ID them, then.....why allow them to drive? If they crash, how is the cop going to know who they are?  The article states that they could also be lacking proper training on how to drive, although many are already driving.  So....why the hell are they giving out the DLs before they get a lerners permit?  Like I said, the people who're making the decisions dont know what the hell they're doing.

I dont know, but I dont see anything good coming out of this.


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## arnisador (Jun 26, 2013)

MJS said:


> If thats the case, then IMHO, they should be a) deporting them or b) making them do thru the proper hoops to become legal citizens.



Those are both federal actions (that aren't being taken, for the most part). I'm saying that this maybe the state's best move--compel them to take a driving test if they want the ID. It may be safest over all. I don't know, but what can CT itself do?


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## MJS (Jun 27, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Those are both federal actions (that aren't being taken, for the most part). I'm saying that this maybe the state's best move--compel them to take a driving test if they want the ID. It may be safest over all. I don't know, but what can CT itself do?



I don't know if I can say that I personally feel that this is the best move.  I'd rather see them take the test, get certified, go thru the proper steps, etc, before getting some permit that gives them the OK, when technically they're not OK.

As for what CT can do....well, one thing is think twice before they do this, but sadly, I doubt it'll happen.


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## arnisador (Jun 27, 2013)

I'm not reading that article like you are. I see that it's 'special' in that it cannot be used for ID as they can't verify the ID of these people, but: 



> "It seems to me that it's in the interest of all Connecticut citizens to  have safe, registered, insured drivers on the roads,'' said Sen. Andrew Maynard, D-North Stonington. "This is a common sense, public-safety-oriented bill."
> [...]
> Upon passing the written test for a license, undocumented immigrants  would be mailed a learner's permit, which Currey said was another  safeguard to ensure the applicant lives at the address provided to the  DMV.



I am getting from this that they do indeed have to take a driving test, and hence lessons if needed.


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## MJS (Jun 27, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I'm not reading that article like you are. I see that it's 'special' in that it cannot be used for ID as they can't verify the ID of these people, but:
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting from this that they do indeed have to take a driving test, and hence lessons if needed.



Perhaps I did misunderstand.  However, doesn't it make sense to use your DL for ID purposes?  Get pulled over by the cops, they ask for your DL, they look at the pic and compare it to who's driving.  They may as well be using fake IDs, no?  How about before they give them the right to drive, why don't they make them become legal.


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## arnisador (Jun 27, 2013)

Makes sense  to me, if there were a valid path--but again, it's federal vs. state. Sounds like CT would like to verify their ID but isn't sure it can as the feds deal with passports etc.


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## WaterGal (Jun 27, 2013)

I think this is one of those situations where there's not really a good solution, and the best they can do is to try to figure out what's the least bad option. The government of the State of CT is probably more concerned with making roads safer than enforcing immigration law.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

Tried it Here it sucked and was finally ended.  It caused our state IDs to not be valid for federal purposes like flights etc.  There is no way to verify the identity of the illegal.  Most don't have valid documents to prove their identity so the issued tons of IDs with no proof the person is who they say they were.  Its a good idea in theory but just didn't work.  I don't know how CT plans to do it but it backfired on us here.


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## Carol (Jun 27, 2013)

WaterGal said:


> I think this is one of those situations where there's not really a good solution, and the best they can do is to try to figure out what's the least bad option. The government of the State of CT is probably more concerned with making roads safer than enforcing immigration law.



The government of the state of CT cannot enforce immigration law, regardless of how concerned they are about it.  Think legal jurisdiction and span of control.


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## Carol (Jun 27, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Tried it Here it sucked and was finally ended.  It caused our state IDs to not be valid for federal purposes like flights etc.  There is no way to verify the identity of the illegal.  Most don't have valid documents to prove their identity so the issued tons of IDs with no proof the person is who they say they were.  Its a good idea in theory but just didn't work.  I don't know how CT plans to do it but it backfired on us here.



It didn't backfire that badly, considering Maryland reinstated the law in May.



> Two of those states, Maryland and Oregon, have reversed course again; both states passed laws in May 2013 that will once again grant driving privileges to undocumented immigrants.



http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0194.htm

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## jks9199 (Jun 27, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Tried it Here it sucked and was finally ended.  It caused our state IDs to not be valid for federal purposes like flights etc.  There is no way to verify the identity of the illegal.  Most don't have valid documents to prove their identity so the issued tons of IDs with no proof the person is who they say they were.  Its a good idea in theory but just didn't work.  I don't know how CT plans to do it but it backfired on us here.



Shoot, we're still getting tons of "MD drivers" who haven't lived in Maryland since they got the license because it's easier for them to get one in MD than VA.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

Carol said:


> It didn't backfire that badly, considering Maryland reinstated the law in May.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They say they changed it some I don't know how but they say this time it will work.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Shoot, we're still getting tons of "MD drivers" who haven't lived in Maryland since they got the license because it's easier for them to get one in MD than VA.



I've seen MD issued ID cards with Va and Del addresses on them.  They screwed the pooch on this the first time.  We had to start putting "not valid for federal identification purposes". In black letters across the top of our licenses for a while because of how messed up it was. I would pull people over and find 3 different licenses 3 different names same guy all three valid


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## arnisador (Jun 27, 2013)

The article says these will be 'special' licenses not usuable for ID--confusing in itself.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

arnisador said:


> The article says these will be 'special' licenses not usuable for ID--confusing in itself.



That's what happened here if you didn't have a SSN# it had "not valid for federal identification purposes" on top.  The issue we had was say I have a special license and get a DUI.  Instead of going to court I just go get a new license flip flopping my middle and last name and ditch my old one.  When I get pulled over the cop runs my new license and it shows I'm good to go.  These guys just can't prove who they are.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

The idea is good they just didn't implement it well here.  I'd like to see some sort of biometric system to keep the name with the person.  So the same guy can't keep getting IDs under different names.


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## arnisador (Jun 27, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I just go get a new license flip flopping my middle and last name



So then your _last _name would be 'Danger'?

I agree that having an ID-like card that isn't usuable for ID is asking for trouble. At least shape it differently--make it too big for a wallet so it's left in the car.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 27, 2013)

arnisador said:


> So then your _last _name would be 'Danger'?
> 
> I agree that having an ID-like card that isn't usuable for ID is asking for trouble. At least shape it differently--make it too big for a wallet so it's left in the car.


Danger is just a nick name.  My govt middle name is deadsxy


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## Carol (Jun 27, 2013)

When I moved up here from Mass, I thought it would be a piece of cake to transfer my license.  Nuh uh...I had to show FOUR forms of ID.  My unexpired Mass. License (#1), proof of NH residency (#2), proof of U.S. citizenship (#3) and because my last name doesn't match the name on my birth certificate, I had have my divorce paperwork dug up from county court (#4).   

Took me 3 trips to the Dept. Of Safety to get that all straightened out.  All for moving 40 miles north.  Somehow I don't see a drivers license for illegals as being that stringent.


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## Carol (Jun 27, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Danger is just a nick name.  My govt middle name is deadsxy



Uhhh.... I need a shower.... 


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## jks9199 (Jun 28, 2013)

Carol said:


> When I moved up here from Mass, I thought it would be a piece of cake to transfer my license.  Nuh uh...I had to show FOUR forms of ID.  My unexpired Mass. License (#1), proof of NH residency (#2), proof of U.S. citizenship (#3) and because my last name doesn't match the name on my birth certificate, I had have my divorce paperwork dug up from county court (#4).
> 
> Took me 3 trips to the Dept. Of Safety to get that all straightened out.  All for moving 40 miles north.  Somehow I don't see a drivers license for illegals as being that stringent.
> 
> ...



When my wife & I got married, and she moved to Virginia, it took us a couple of trips to DMV to get her license.  We needed a couple of proofs of identity, proof of legal presence, the marriage certificate to document the name change (in hindsight, we should've changed her Missouri license, then taken it to Virginia...  Would've made it simpler.)...  Took two or three trips in all to get everything acceptable.


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## arnisador (Jun 28, 2013)

I could've told the Indiana DMV I was <noNSA>Osama bin Laden</noNSA> and they'd have issued the license in that name. Eh, maybe it's better now.


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## Big Don (Jun 28, 2013)

Not sure how allowing unrepentant criminals, illegal immigration is a crime, privileges is supposed to help in any way.


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## arnisador (Jun 28, 2013)

Because they are driving anyway, often with inadequate training--it's a safety measure for the state's residents.


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## MJS (Jul 2, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Makes sense  to me, if there were a valid path--but again, it's federal vs. state. Sounds like CT would like to verify their ID but isn't sure it can as the feds deal with passports etc.



Then IMO, it still defeats the purpose of the DL, if it can't be used for ID purposes.


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## MJS (Jul 2, 2013)

WaterGal said:


> I think this is one of those situations where there's not really a good solution, and the best they can do is to try to figure out what's the least bad option. The government of the State of CT is probably more concerned with making roads safer than enforcing immigration law.



IMO, I'm not sure how its going to make the roads safer, if that's really their goal.  Personally, I'd say its more along the lines of what I said earlier...the decision makers just want more votes.


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## MJS (Jul 2, 2013)

Carol said:


> The government of the state of CT cannot enforce immigration law, regardless of how concerned they are about it.  Think legal jurisdiction and span of control.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Why can't they?  If the cops have reasonable proof that the person they're dealing with is illegal, well, isn't that what ICE is for?


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## MJS (Jul 2, 2013)

Carol said:


> When I moved up here from Mass, I thought it would be a piece of cake to transfer my license.  Nuh uh...I had to show FOUR forms of ID.  My unexpired Mass. License (#1), proof of NH residency (#2), proof of U.S. citizenship (#3) and because my last name doesn't match the name on my birth certificate, I had have my divorce paperwork dug up from county court (#4).
> 
> Took me 3 trips to the Dept. Of Safety to get that all straightened out.  All for moving 40 miles north.  Somehow I don't see a drivers license for illegals as being that stringent.
> 
> ...



Hmm....so you have to jump thru hoops but the illegal doesn't?  Shocker! LOL! Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here, but if you have to show proof of citizenship, then so should the 'undocumented' person, which, unless I'm wrong, if they weren't here illegally, then this whole thing would be a non issue, no?


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## arnisador (Jul 2, 2013)

MJS said:


> Hmm....so you have to jump thru hoops but the illegal doesn't?  Shocker! LOL! Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here, but if you have to show proof of citizenship, then so should the 'undocumented' person, which, unless I'm wrong, if they weren't here illegally, then this whole thing would be a non issue, no?



I still think this completely misses the reality that those people are here, are driving, and the federal govt. isn't doing much about it. If it was as simple as notifying the feds that there are people here illegally, that'd be one thing. As is, if this gets them into driver's ed. courses, it could improve safety--and save lives.


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## Big Don (Jul 2, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I still think this completely misses the reality that those people are here, are driving, and the federal govt. isn't doing much about it. If it was as simple as notifying the feds that there are people here illegally, that'd be one thing.


They know, and like you, they don't care.





> As is, if this gets them into driver's ed. courses, it could improve safety--and save lives.


 That it rewards criminals isn't important...


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## arnisador (Jul 2, 2013)

Big Don said:


> They know, and like you, they don't care.



I didn't say I didn't care. I said that, like the states, I am living in the real world where not much is being done on immigration. You're just complaining--they're making the best of a difficult situation over which they have very little control. The court has ruled immigration a federal issue that the states must largely leave to the feds, but no one is evicting these folks from CT.


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## WaterGal (Jul 2, 2013)

Carol said:


> The government of the state of CT cannot enforce immigration law, regardless of how concerned they are about it.  Think legal jurisdiction and span of control.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Mmm.  I didn't mean that the CT state police have a mission to deport people.  I meant that the state is doing something here that makes it easier for illegal immigrants to live in that state, which is counter to the spirit of the federal government's stance on illegal immigrants. But for a state government, having fewer untrained drivers on the road is probably going to be more important than making things tough for illegal immigrants.


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## MJS (Jul 3, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I still think this completely misses the reality that those people are here, are driving, and the federal govt. isn't doing much about it. If it was as simple as notifying the feds that there are people here illegally, that'd be one thing. As is, if this gets them into driver's ed. courses, it could improve safety--and save lives.



Oh I know they're here and driving.  IMO though, the main focus should be on getting them to legal status, not giving them a DL.  Seems like they're putting the cart before the horse, but I'm not shocked..lol.  Of course, the feds don't want to shake up the basket too much and offend the BHC (bleeding hearts club members) who feel sorry for the illegals and claim their 'rights' are being violated.


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