# Hand wraps vs. Gloves



## Jill666 (Jan 2, 2003)

Regarding the heavy bag, I have yet to find a pair of gloves that really fit well, and am about to purchase hand wraps. I have been bare-knuckling it for the past few years. Note that I have very small hands.

Input/ info greatly appreciated. I especially would like to support my wrist for those last few getting-tired-and-lost-my-form jabs in terms of injury reduction.:boxing:


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## Kirk (Jan 2, 2003)

I don't find the wraps support my wrists all that much.  I wear
them so I don't cut my knuckles.


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## KenpoGirl (Jan 2, 2003)

I have a pair of the Century wrist wrap bag gloves.  I've added the picture below.  I bought them about 3 years ago. and with the exception of a few tears they still do the job.  They protect the wrist for the most part and have lots of padding so you can really put something behind those punches.

They are pretty expensive so if you can find a cheaper comparable kind go for it.  And if you do find some let me know because I'm going to have to replace these in another year or so.

Dot


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 2, 2003)

Like Kirk said, the wraps help prevent you from scraping your knuckles more than anything else.  Go with some handwraps from one of the boxing companies like one of the following:

www.ringside.com

www.titleboxing.com

www.everlastboxing.com

Also, get some heavy bag gloves.  You said that you have small hands so go with the 12oz glove.

Happy hitting.


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## Matt Stone (Jan 3, 2003)

I have found that, while you _will_ lose some skin on the bag by bareknuckling it during training, I have also learned some very valuable lessons by _not_ using any kind of wrist support nor hand protection.

You only lose skin and get friction burns if you are scraping the bag.  If you are making correct impact, that won't happen.  You hand will get red and sore from the constant impact, but no burns nor abrasions will result from perpendicular impact to the striking surface.

When you get tired, you learn the most.  The lessons about what your tendencies are when you get tired are valuable, I feel, in terms of knowing what to train harder on.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jan 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *You only lose skin and get friction burns if you are scraping the bag.  If you are making correct impact, that won't happen.  You hand will get red and sore from the constant impact, but no burns nor abrasions will result from perpendicular impact to the striking surface.*



He's right. Good call. The wraps are not there to stop you from scraping your knuckles. They are there to give wrist support and proper support and spacing to the knuckles. Again this is a function of most martial artists not knowing how to use a heavy bag properly.

Boxers spent a large amount of time using the few tools they emply and so they spend a lot of time learning to use them right. Please go to a boxing gym and ask a coach to show you proper use of the wraps and to explain why they use them.

There are many different kinds. Shorties (junior/women's), 180's, mexican, standard, hook & loop (Velcro), gauze (which has it's own levels of thickness) Tape, flex pre-wrap, and many other add ons.

There are several different variations and methods of wrapping the hand depending on what you intend on doing that day. The right tool for the right job.


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## D_Brady (Jan 3, 2003)

When I use the heavy bag I use my sparring gloves, in the beginning it helped me get  used to having them on my hands so I could stay focused on not getting hit in the face. If you spar once a week or month sometimes the newbie will never stop thinking about the unnatural feeeling of having gear on. But make sure not so comfortable that they think the gear makes them indestructable. sorry if a little off topic at the end.


  Dan


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## GouRonin (Jan 3, 2003)

www.ringside.com has a whole line of gear made especially for women. Yes, there is a difference.


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## Matt Stone (Jan 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D_Brady _
> *When I use the heavy bag I use my sparring gloves, in the beginning it helped me get  used to having them on my hands so I could stay focused on not getting hit in the face. If you spar once a week or month sometimes the newbie will never stop thinking about the unnatural feeeling of having gear on.*



That is fine, so long as the point and purpose of training is to teach how to hit improperly with the incorrect distance and timing...

As long as it is sport training, then regular training with pads/gloves/etc. is fine.  Periodic training (irregular at best) with safety gear is fine.

If the school has a "realistic" orientation, then extensive training for free sparring, and free sparring with safety gear, will do little to develop skills that will function well "on the street."

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## D_Brady (Jan 3, 2003)

I agree with what you said about realistic training, When I started first in kempo we did not use gear for sparring ( adults 0nly) When I began AK they Brought up about sparring gear and I said I thought it a little odd that mr Parker made it known that he didn;t think mugh of sparring with gear so why are we. They said insurence reasons. so now at my own club we don;t use gear other than cups and mouth guard, I personally think not just timming and distance but use of controle also very importatnt. Along with grabs and other forms of physical checks.Plus you find real quick that a missed timmed backknuckle strike to someones head is a good wake up call . But if money , or just the sake of cardio, or lack of options any protection from previous injurys then can keep you doing some type of training is still helpful. Sparring gloves are an option for those having trouble finding gloves that fit. Hand wraps are best IF done correctly.

 Dan


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *He's right. Good call. The wraps are not there to stop you from scraping your knuckles. They are there to give wrist support and proper support and spacing to the knuckles. Again this is a function of most martial artists not knowing how to use a heavy bag properly.
> 
> Boxers spent a large amount of time using the few tools they emply and so they spend a lot of time learning to use them right. Please go to a boxing gym and ask a coach to show you proper use of the wraps and to explain why they use them.
> ...



Gou you are correct sir.  I just reread my post.  Wow, I must have partied too hard for the new year  

The main purpose of hand wraps is to support your wrist and help protect your knuckles.

Peace & blessings,


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## Astra (Jan 3, 2003)

The people here are 100% correct. I started out punching (chainpunching even, fear) a bag and the skin would be off my knuckles every time. That was until I figured what I was doing wrong, fixed it, and never had it again. Then I started giving harder punches and using gloves. If I had used gear for it from day one, I might be punching incorrectly to this day. I still punch the bag from time to time without protection to keep the sence of reality and to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong.


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## Jill666 (Jan 4, 2003)

I have used the bag regularly for a while, and enjoy the workout. I'm going with hands wraps now, and will let y'all know how it goes. The ringside.com link was great- thanks very much Tyrone- I do need the junior size and often don't find it. And I suspect the women's section will see me again.

Interesting input on the use of gear- I didn't expect that. In my dojo, we use sparring gear for formal sparring workouts only. Aside from cups, no other safety equipment is routinely used. Control is important, and personally I dish out exactly as much as I am willing to take. We have all trained together for a few years, so trust has been established. Accidents are rare, and serious injury hasn't occurred. Just a couple of broken digits due to someone using improper technique, and the like.

I do have access to a boxing club as I happens; I'll have use it.


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## KennethKu (Jan 4, 2003)

You should start out with wrap support but eventually get rid of it. You want to train your fists and wrists to be strong on their own.  Else, you will be like Mike Tyson who ended up hurting his fists in a bar fight.  

Wrapping up and box the bag would just give you this false sense of confidence. The moment you throw a punch with the same power but without the wrap, your wrists/fists would buckle and you would be in deep poo poo when you couldn't afford to.


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## KenpoGirl (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *You should start out with wrap support but eventually get rid of it. You want to train your fists and wrists to be strong on their own.  Else, you will be like Mike Tyson who ended up hurting his fists in a bar fight.
> 
> Wrapping up and box the bag would just give you this false sense of confidence. The moment you throw a punch with the same power but without the wrap, your wrists/fists would buckle and you would be in deep poo poo when you couldn't afford to. *





Why would I want to toughen up my knuckles?  I don't intend to get into fights on a regular basis.  For those that enjoy the occational bar fight, by all means, I do see the logic.  I work in an office, not to mention I'm female, why would I want calussis on my knuckles, or go to work with red and broken knuckles?  

If I every got attacked I'd of course expect injuries.  Now about the pain and the issue with the wrists, yes I can see your point.  So some training without gloves may be necessary just so you become familiar with the "feeling" and punching with gloves without wrist supports may have to be included in your training. 

At least that's my female perspective.  

Dot


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## KennethKu (Jan 4, 2003)

How are you going to defend yourself when you break you wrist on the first punch?

You don't get callus on your knuckle nor deformation, unless you practice on a Makiwara (the straw pad) or some rough canvas bags filled with gravels or pit rocks. 

There are heavy bags with smooth and soft material.  Nothing will ever happen to your knuckles with those.

If you need protection on the skin, just use the regular bag gloves.


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## KenpoGirl (Jan 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *How are you going to defend yourself when you break you wrist on the first punch? *



I did say training without wrist supports should be part of your training.  My main point was that I didn't need to beat up my knuckles.  :shrug:


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## KennethKu (Jan 4, 2003)

I understand. Sorry I edited my previous post to address  that part about knuckle abrassion, before I saw you last post.  

It is my experience that you can harden your knuckles considerably without causing callus or deformation.  Callus comes and go, but  hardened knuckles stay.  

Only when you want to go to the Iron Fist stage then your knuckles would look like 4 dark pads on each hand. *sigh*


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## Matt Stone (Jan 5, 2003)

Actually, as with all things Chinese, there are external methods and internal methods...

External Iron Palm will make your hand look like a deformed foot.  Look at Master Pan's famous Iron Fist for and example of what a person's (even moreso a lady's) hand should _not_ look like if they don't want to be treated like a circus sideshow...  I'm not saying anything bad about Pan, just that I would never want _my_ hands to end up like that...  Ick.  :erg:

Internal Iron Palm, while making the surface of the hand slightly rougher, does not build up excessive callus.  The roughness of the hand can easily be dealt with by using a good quality rehydrating lotion...  

Makiwara training is largely misunderstood by most people.  Striking it for the sole purpose of toughening the hands is the common use of the post.  Their technique is usually just hitting and retracting the strike immediately to chamber the subsequent technique.  In Yiliquan, we make use of the striking post, but in a different manner.  Strike it and "stick" for a split second at the end of the strike.  Push against the post with your technique instead of striking the post, trying to bend the post back farther and farther.  These two methods will strengthen the muscles used in the strike and teach you to conduct all your force into the target...  There is still some slight damage to the knuckles, but depending on the material used to pad the striking post, this can be very minimal.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *
> 
> Why would I want to toughen up my knuckles?  I don't intend to get into fights on a regular basis.  For those that enjoy the occational bar fight, by all means, I do see the logic.  I work in an office, not to mention I'm female, why would I want calussis on my knuckles, or go to work with red and broken knuckles?
> ...



I can see the logic in what others have to say about toughening one's knuckles and all, but I don't think that one should overly concern themselves with toughening up their knuckles.  Yes one should practice on a smooth bag/focus shield to accustom themselves to hitting something barefisted because there definitely is a different feel.

For self defense purposes however, I train to hit with an open hand (i.e. palm strike) to avoid hand injuries.  Hey, boxers wrap their hands and wear gloves for a reason you know  ;-)

Typcially, if one was to hit a person full power in the face, with let's say a right cross, they would more than likely damage their hand.  The good thing about boxing techniques is that the closed fist can easily be changed to palm strikes.

Peace & blessings,


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## KennethKu (Jan 6, 2003)

Allow me to clarify a few points.

1. Whether you practice on a makiwara or a rough canvas bag of rocks, it is entirely possible that you can do so without breaking skin.   However if you practice chain punching of 100-200 at a pop at full speed and full force then, oh well.  (I had entire scabs came right off etc  . But that' just a reflection of individual recklessness.)   I also want to point out that the makiwara sold at the stores these days are made of rubber pads and hence will not cut your knuckles. 

2. To have a hand where you have callus that looks like hoof on your knuckles, such as that on Pang Ching Fu's knuckles (of Iron & Silk fame), you have to really torture yourself for a long time to reach that stage. the guy punches a steel plate 1000 times a day. None of you should even bother to be concerned about that. This is pretty much like people worrying about getting too muscular if they life weight. Because, in reality that is not even remotely likely to happen as easy they imagine. 

3. Every time I heard people claim they have to hit with their palm heels because they are concerned they might hurt themselves with a closed fist, I wander how much they are overestimating their striking power.  I don't mean this to be directed at anyone in particular.   I just got tired of hearing this.


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## Zujitsuka (Jan 6, 2003)

KennethKu, what you're saying DOES make a lot of since but I somewhat disagree.  It is just a matter of preference.

In regards to your statement on people who use palm strikes overestimating their striking power, my angle is about slamming one's fist into someone else's armor plated turret (i.e. their skull).  Also, teeth can do a lot of harm to one's fist as well.

I think the Systema and Baguazhang guys make a lot of since about advocating open hand strikes over a clenched fist for combat for these very reasons.

Respectfully,


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## Matt Stone (Jan 6, 2003)

Open handed strikes do _seem_ to be more powerful, but I can't say that it is a truism...

Failing to properly condition _any_ striking surface will result in that "weapon" being relatively useless in real application.  Use, as an example, in movies where the hero punches the baddie on the chin and recoils in pain - same idea.  If you are unaccustomed to striking something more solid than air, when you finally _do_ hit something with some resistance you will likely do nearly as much damage, if not more, to yourself than to your opponent.

The whole purpose of striking conditioning is to allow you to be able to strike the human body without fear of injuring your striking weapon.  It is *not* about who can break the most boards or bricks - they aren't what you will be hitting anyway.  But if you are able to punch through wood or concrete, then flesh and bone won't cause much fear in you at all... 

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Astra (Jan 6, 2003)

Punching a concrete wall isn't as bad actually. If you have started out a bit easier, then from experience I can say that hitting the wall at full strength will not even cause much pain, your hand will simply turn blue for a while (not even for an hour) and that will be that. 
Someone pissed me off once and instead of hitting him I decided to take it out on the wall


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## MartialArtist (Jan 7, 2003)

I use tape for pure bag hitting.  For boxing matches, tape and gloves.

For full-contact sparring, I don't wear anything because the tape is for punching only and hinders other movements.


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