# Pet peeves while training in Japan



## Kreth (Dec 28, 2005)

Sometimes I wonder about people who will go halfway around the world for training, and then make asses of themselves. Some pet peeves of mine:
People who have a conversation with Hatsumi sensei or one of the Japanese shihan, with a translator involved, and address themselves to the translator. It's pretty rude to have a conversation with someone, especially the seniors of your organization, and not give them the courtesy of facing them.
People who take translators for granted. This person is giving up part of their training time to help you understand what's being said. A thanks is in order at the very least.
People with no respect for others in the dojo. On one of my trips, a friend laid his dogi top on the tatami to fold it. Another student *walked over it*!
Slobs who leave trash all over outside Honbu Dojo.


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## Koinu (Dec 28, 2005)

Good Thread Kreth. 
People walking on the paperwork and money while Ohashi San is trying to record the attendee's, it is not a peeve just plain rude.

People leaving a class when they find out one of the Shihan is teaching instead of Soke.

Trash issue of course, fouling our own nest really smart not to mention that we are suppose to be training to not be noticed and leave no trace.
In a similar vain is the Training bags/shoes issue all though it is sometimes hard not to have bags/shoes everywhere at the Hombu some care needs to be taken by everyone to allow Soke and everyone else clear path to walk into and out of areas they need to go including the front doors.


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## saru1968 (Dec 28, 2005)

Videotaping a top Japanese Shihan's lesson without even asking.


Acting like 'they' are on a loutish holiday whilst out sightseeing.


Dropping rubbish.

Refusing to help clear up the dojo floor.


Turning up drunk for training at Honbu.


Just a few things i Saw on my last visit!

:-(


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## MJS (Dec 29, 2005)

WOW!!  Sounds like there are some people out there that need to learn some manners.  

Out of curiosity, is anything said to these people?  I would think that if they're being that disrespectful to the dojo, both inside and out, as well as the Shihan or Soke, that they would not be allowed back to train.

Mike


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## Kreth (Dec 29, 2005)

Unfortunately no. Very rarely will one of the Japanese seniors come right out and yell at someone. And usually the instructor of the moron in question is just as bad, if not the culprit him/herself.


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## MJS (Dec 29, 2005)

Its really a shame.  I've always felt that when you go to someone elses 'home', you should have some degree of respect.  For someone to totally disrespect Senior teachers, the training hall, etc., certainly does not say much for those people.  

At the very least, I'd figure the Seniors or someone might quietly say something or possibly call that person up to help demo a technique.  Nothing like tweaking a lock to get your point across!:EG:


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## Don Roley (Dec 29, 2005)

Don't
Get
Me
Started....:soapbox: 

Kreth is right. The Japanese tend not to say much in public or directly to someone. And there is some sort of cultural adversion to turning someone down directly. A lot of people abuse this, or do not realize it. Just because no one tells you that what you are doing is wrong, does not mean that it is right.


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## Kreth (Dec 30, 2005)

FWIW, here's the rule of thumb I use... Hatsumi sensei and the Japanese shihan are more accustomed to Westerners than a typical Japanese. If they seem reticent to talk/deal with you, examine your behavior to see what you've done wrong.
I'm far from a Japanese language expert, but I was able to pick up a lot of extra info from Sensei and the shihan I trained with, just by observing common courtesy. Hell, Shiraishi sensei once gave a ride to me and a group of Aussies just so we could attend his class.


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## terryl965 (Dec 30, 2005)

I would have to agree that the Asian folks seem to be able to bit there tounge more so than the western civilazation,I have seen so many folks dis-respect them while they are training it is bad. Respect is a blurr in the mirror for some. Kreth you and Don are right on the money in your statements.
Terry


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## Manzyberranzan (Jan 2, 2006)

Although the stories and examples of this thread are improper and irritating, they are also very educational. Before my first trip to Japan last October I searched many discussion boards for just this kind of information so as to not duplicate any impolite action. I of course spoke with my teacher about the matter too.

OT: hello everybody! A new poster here from Finland!


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## Cryozombie (Jan 2, 2006)

Welcome to Martial Talk!


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## Bujingodai (Jan 3, 2006)

So maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread here about etiquette.
I am guilty of it. I have stepped over weapons and showed the bottom of my feet, etc etc non intentionally til someone sat down and educated me on some of the points.
Mind you leaving garbage around and interuppting etc is just basic manners one doing that is pretty ignorant anyways.

But being for me as I am going to Japan in September likely would love to know some of the finer points one should watch out for. I may know a bunch of them now anyway, but I doubt it.


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## Blindside (Jan 3, 2006)

Not specific to martial arts training, but don't pour soy sauce on your rice, particularly if you are in someones home.  It can be interpreted as "your rice is so bad, I have to cover up the taste."

Also don't stick your chopsticks in your rice bowl so they stand up, that is how offerings to the dead are made.

Just some stuff I learned from my mom.

Lamont


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## Kreth (Jan 3, 2006)

More chopsticks etiquette.


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## Don Roley (Jan 4, 2006)

Bujingodai said:
			
		

> So maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread here about etiquette.
> I am guilty of it. I have stepped over weapons and showed the bottom of my feet, etc etc non intentionally til someone sat down and educated me on some of the points.
> Mind you leaving garbage around and interuppting etc is just basic manners one doing that is pretty ignorant anyways.
> 
> But being for me as I am going to Japan in September likely would love to know some of the finer points one should watch out for. I may know a bunch of them now anyway, but I doubt it.



There is already a thread about things you should know when going to Japan. 
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17457

One thing you really should try to do is _do what the teachers are doing!!!!!!!!!_

That is one of my pet peeves. I really can't understand why people would spend thousands of dollars in air fare and hotel bills only to do what they want and not what the teacher has shown. I have heard excuses like this, "if you only imitate what Hatsumi does, you will never make the art your own." Excuse me? Don't these morons think that maybe Hatsumi is showing something for a damn good reason? Do they honestly believe they are good enough to know what is best for them better than Hatsumi does?

And I have heard a few comments by some of the Japanese shihan about folks that do things like that. I think it is rude and disgracefull to not even try to do something that the teacher is showing. If you can't make it work, it is because you don't know enough. If you do something else, you don't learn the stuff it takes to make the technique work. 

Oh sure, I have seen things that work for big people but not for anyone smaller. But that is not the type of thing I see from the Japanese shihan.

So if a teacher cares, he would probably pull out something you have difficulty with rather than keep inside your comfort zone. But if you do not try to deal with that point, you are not only tossing away a chance to correct a flaw in your taijutsu, you are slapping the shihan in the face and saying that you do not respect his choice of what you are weak in.

:soapbox:


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## Dale Seago (Jan 4, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> So if a teacher cares, he would probably pull out something you have difficulty with rather than keep inside your comfort zone. But if you do not try to deal with that point, you are not only tossing away a chance to correct a flaw in your taijutsu, you are slapping the shihan in the face and saying that you do not respect his choice of what you are weak in.


 
That's a really important point, as what is _intended to be_ communication may not always be "overt" or direct as it would be in Western culture. When you've developed a relationship over time with a shihan and demonstrated to him through your actions that you really want to learn, you may be fortunate enough to have him tell you frankly, "That's crap". But until then, it's most likely to be the kind of thing Don describes.


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## Bujingodai (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks for the link Don,
I can't see why personally anyoone wouldn't try and imitate what is being done. That is what they are there for. You can create on your own time if thats what you are going to do.


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## Kreth (Jan 4, 2006)

Bujingodai said:
			
		

> Thanks for the link Don,
> I can't see why personally anyoone wouldn't try and imitate what is being done. That is what they are there for. You can create on your own time if thats what you are going to do.


Because some "teachers" have an image to maintain in front of their students at all costs...


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## Bujingodai (Jan 4, 2006)

Well I'd be going there with the haven't a clue mindframe, so no I will try and do what I see, instead of interpreting it for myself.
Made that mistake too many times in the past.


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## Fluffy (Jan 4, 2006)

Belts on the floor............you worked a good part of your life to earn a black belt, and you toos it on the floor at the end of the day.......just bugs me.

-Fluff


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## Don Roley (Jan 4, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> Because some "teachers" have an image to maintain in front of their students at all costs...



I feel another rant coming on............


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## Cryozombie (Jan 4, 2006)

Fluffy said:
			
		

> Belts on the floor............you worked a good part of your life to earn a black belt, and you toos it on the floor at the end of the day.......just bugs me.
> 
> -Fluff


 
I dunno man... IMO belt is there to hold your jacket closed, or to hang your sword from, its a tool, not a "trophy".  But then again, in the 'Kan, unlike some other arts, a BB isnt what you aspire to... and all it means is that your a more advanced student, not a master.


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## Deaf (Jan 6, 2006)

Fluffy said:
			
		

> Belts on the floor............you worked a good part of your life to earn a black belt, and you toos it on the floor at the end of the day.......just bugs me.
> 
> -Fluff



Why?  A belt is just a belt.  The "don't let your belt touch the floor" or the "don't wash your belt" mentality is something that I fail to understand but that is a thread in of itself.

In the Bujinkan, a belt simply helps you hold your sword(s) in place or allows you to choke the crap outta someone!


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## Bujingodai (Jan 6, 2006)

Though the point may be moot. I think maybe some of the traditonal etiquette, maybe not even in some of the Kan dojo.
IE, our old dojo was pretty relaxed. Which is fine. I visited another system of martial arts, I think it was Karate. A friend of mine invited me, I looked like an ignorant tool. So personally it didn't effect my training but it would be nice to know some rules you would need to know elsewhere or in a more traditional surrounding.


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## Fluffy (Jan 6, 2006)

Deaf said:
			
		

> Why? A belt is just a belt. The "don't let your belt touch the floor" or the "don't wash your belt" mentality is something that I fail to understand but that is a thread in of itself.
> 
> In the Bujinkan, a belt simply helps you hold your sword(s) in place or allows you to choke the crap outta someone!


 
For me, it's immportant.  That's it.


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## Fluffy (Jan 6, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> and all it means is that your a more advanced student, not a master.


 
K, if you think so.  It's as immportant to me as a flag is to a soldier - which I am as well.  It's a representation of the physical and mental aspects of traditional martial arts..........in the Army we do not use the bayonet, but we train with it, we clean it, we carry it around, but I will never use it in hand to hand combat.  It's ceremonial, and respected for it meaning.......like a Black Belt (or yes, my Masters belt) in TKD.


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## shesulsa (Jan 6, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I dunno man... IMO belt is there to hold your jacket closed, or to hang your sword from, its a tool, not a "trophy".  But then again, in the 'Kan, unlike some other arts, a BB isnt what you aspire to... and all it means is that your a more advanced student, not a master.


Well, I've never trained in Japan, unfortunately, but ... the belt thing ... if I may ask ....

Is this a Bujinkan thing specifically?  I didn't aspire to be a black belt either, but I have one and though it only holds my pants up, I treat it with honor as a symbol of what my teachers think of me, the work I put in, etcetera.  Like, I don't leave my wedding band on the floor of the bathroom or in the soapdish because it's my wedding band. I didn't get married for the ring, but it's an important symbol.

So, are you saying this is a Booj thing, then?


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## Fluffy (Jan 6, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Well, I've never trained in Japan, unfortunately, but ... the belt thing ... if I may ask ....
> 
> Is this a Bujinkan thing specifically? I didn't aspire to be a black belt either, but I have one and though it only holds my pants up, I treat it with honor as a symbol of what my teachers think of me, the work I put in, etcetera. Like, I don't leave my wedding band on the floor of the bathroom or in the soapdish because it's my wedding band. I didn't get married for the ring, but it's an important symbol.
> 
> So, are you saying this is a Booj thing, then?


 
Yes, you got it.


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## shesulsa (Jan 6, 2006)

To be very specific, do Bujinkan folk follow any particular ettiquette or protocol regarding the obi? Is this a school-by-school thing? Is this a Hatsumi Sensei thing? Japanese vs. American thing?  More specifics, please.

Also, thank you all for being tolerant of a non-ninjutsu person breaking in on the discussion at hand. :asian:


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## Cryozombie (Jan 6, 2006)

Fluffy said:
			
		

> K, if you think so. It's as immportant to me as a flag is to a soldier - which I am as well. It's a representation of the physical and mental aspects of traditional martial arts..........in the Army we do not use the bayonet, but we train with it, we clean it, we carry it around, but I will never use it in hand to hand combat. It's ceremonial, and respected for it meaning.......like a Black Belt (or yes, my Masters belt) in TKD.


 
Well, all I can say is thats the difference in the arts.  If you keep in mind that the Bujinkan doesnt have "belt ranks" you could start to see where the "idolization" of the Belt doesnt really come into play in our art... and as other here will be quick to point out as well, rank in the bujinkan isnt... um, the same as other arts.  For example, in TKD rank is "athoritatve" and a 1st degree BB is "above" a brown belt.  In the Buj, a 1st dan doesnt neccessarily have authority over, say, a first kyu.  And in the Buj, a blackbelt doesnt indicate a "masters" rank, or even grant you athority to teach... so they dont hold the same "symbolism" as other arts put on them.  

I dunno if that makes sense or explains anything, but its the best explaination I can give you at the moment.

Oh, and FWIW, when I was in the army (11b) we were taught to USE our bayonet... it was called RBFT... so respectfully... that it is nothing more than a symbol is um...


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## Fluffy (Jan 6, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> To be very specific, do Bujinkan folk follow any particular ettiquette or protocol regarding the obi? Is this a school-by-school thing? Is this a Hatsumi Sensei thing? Japanese vs. American thing? More specifics, please.
> 
> Also, thank you all for being tolerant of a non-ninjutsu person breaking in on the discussion at hand. :asian:


 
To me it's common sense.  It's the way I was brought up, to respect items with meaning - wedding ring (is it just gold or does it have a deeper meaning) Flag (cloth?) a matial arts Belt (cloth?).  Respect and honor is totaly an American thing, it is also a Korean thing, and an Japanese thing and on...........

I'm non-ninjutsu as well.............I just stumbled onto the thread.


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## shesulsa (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks for the input, Master Fluffy, but I'd really like to hear from the ninjutsu folks here.


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## Don Roley (Jan 6, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Well, I've never trained in Japan, unfortunately, but ... the belt thing ... if I may ask ....
> 
> Is this a Bujinkan thing specifically?  I didn't aspire to be a black belt either, but I have one and though it only holds my pants up, I treat it with honor as a symbol of what my teachers think of me, the work I put in, etcetera.  Like, I don't leave my wedding band on the floor of the bathroom or in the soapdish because it's my wedding band. I didn't get married for the ring, but it's an important symbol.
> 
> So, are you saying this is a Booj thing, then?



Speaking as a Bujinkan member living in Japan, the outlook I see toward the belt is a heck of a lot different from what I see Fluffy the Korean stylist  saying. The outloolk of people I see around me is that it is just a piece of cloth. Putting too much emphisis on it almost seems to be looked on as a form of egotism. The Japanese teachers all get new belts when the old ones get a bit ragged. The guys that come from overseas with belts nearly white with age stand out by comparison.

And those guys, with their big show of having an ancient belt, are the subject of another rant I could give.


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## Kizaru (Jan 6, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Oh, and FWIW, when I was in the army (11b) we were taught to USE our bayonet... it was called RBFT... so respectfully... that it is nothing more than a symbol is um...


 
As a former 11 Alpha, I couldn't agree with you more. Anyone who's carying gear they're not going to use needs to be smacked upside the head with an e-tool...preferably their own e-tool, but I digress...

As for my pet peeves, lack of focus and lack of respect top the list.

By respect I mean greeting the teacher when you come in, waiting your turn to speak rather than speaking over others, waiting for the right timing to ask a question (if that time even ever shows itself), not leaning on the walls, not standing there with your arms folded while the teacher is speaking (years ago, this is how people would conceal weapons when coming into a dojo, so this posture can make some of the older shihan a bit "edgy"), not leaving trash around (anywhere), being respectful to the inhabitants of Noda City (people have been coming here long enough that our behavior reflects on Hatsumi sensei), etc etc.

By focus I mean doing your best to "get" what's being shown (instead of using the "oh I'm so confused I'm just going to try and impress the teacher by doing my own thing" cop out), not going out and getting hammered before coming to training, not lying around on the floor when the teacher calls time for a short "break" and not letting your rank distract you no matter how "rank" it is. Ranks don't stop kicks,punces, bombs, bullets or bayonets.

Gassho.


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## Kreth (Jan 6, 2006)

I was going to respond to this thread, but I have to go sand my belt...

Seriously, as Don said, the general attitude of most of the people I've trained with is that the belt is part of your uniform, nothing more.


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## mrhnau (Jan 6, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Well, I've never trained in Japan, unfortunately, but ... the belt thing ... if I may ask ....
> 
> Is this a Bujinkan thing specifically?  I didn't aspire to be a black belt either, but I have one and though it only holds my pants up, I treat it with honor as a symbol of what my teachers think of me, the work I put in, etcetera.  Like, I don't leave my wedding band on the floor of the bathroom or in the soapdish because it's my wedding band. I didn't get married for the ring, but it's an important symbol.
> 
> So, are you saying this is a Booj thing, then?



I can't answer for all the Booj, since I've not been around -too- much so far. From my limited experience, its not as important as in other arts. As a beginner, I've trained with everyone fairly openly from 10 kyu up to 7th dan. I don't see a very standardized scale for what is considered a black belt (though my group has some written standards, i don't believe its universal). I think its more of a mark of dedication and learning rather than performing a set line of tests and skills (well, let me say the emphasis on the latter is perhaps less than in other MAs?). I personally like the concept of ranks as a guide for how much you have learned, but I'd be quite content learning as much as possible and remaining 10th kyu for years.
I -think- this is fairly universal in the Bujinkan, along with the general "free spirit" I've observed in practitioners (of course, this is sort of a personal observation and from reading about other groups too).

Whats the difference between me if I'm a 10th kyu and have a great deal of knowledge and if i'm a black belt thats lesser qualified? Will someone on "the street" stop and ask me if I'm a black belt? From a silly perspective, wouldn't it be more "ninja like" to "deceive" about ones rank? Have more knowledge that others might perceive? Just my observations...

another view. You wear a black belt when you are in your gi and in your class. Its only really viewed by others in your class and those you are close to (family, friends, etc). In that, its a bit different than a wedding ring. Its still a symbol, but not thats important to the bulk of society.

Feel free to critique


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## shesulsa (Jan 7, 2006)

Thank you, gentlemen. :asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 7, 2006)

Not being part of that organization i can not answer how important a belt is but in my school i have had all students throw (for real) their belts across the floor into a corner at the beginning of class and stand where ever thy wanted in line for a night  and you know what by the eND of the night any stranger coming into the school could still tell who had knowledge and experience and who was a beginner.
If it is the custom to fold a uniform on the floor then i See nothing wrong with keeping to the custom.  I believe some of the sword arts may do the same or something similar.


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## Kizaru (Jan 7, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Not being part of that organization i can not answer how important a belt is ....If it is the custom to fold a uniform on the floor then ..... I believe some of the sword arts may do the same or something similar.


 
Traditional Japanese sword arts don't use belts as an indication of "rank"; they use a _menkyo _or "licensure" system. When a student has been taught the mechanics and application of a certain group of techniques, they are "licensed" in that group of techniques, and then start learning the next group.

"Sport" martial arts introduced the idea of using belts as "ranks" to gauge competence.


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## Dale Seago (Jan 8, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Well, all I can say is thats the difference in the arts. If you keep in mind that the Bujinkan doesnt have "belt ranks" you could start to see where the "idolization" of the Belt doesnt really come into play in our art... and as other here will be quick to point out as well, rank in the bujinkan isnt... um, the same as other arts. For example, in TKD rank is "athoritatve" and a 1st degree BB is "above" a brown belt. In the Buj, a 1st dan doesnt neccessarily have authority over, say, a first kyu. And in the Buj, a blackbelt doesnt indicate a "masters" rank, or even grant you athority to teach... so they dont hold the same "symbolism" as other arts put on them.


 
Right.

Shesulsa, for a look at the Bujinkan rank structure see http://www.bujinkansf.org/faq/#ranks

Fluffy commented, "K, if you think so. It's as immportant to me as a flag is to a soldier - which I am as well. It's a representation of the physical and mental aspects of traditional martial arts..........". In other words, there's strong symbolic meaning there as it's a very different martial culture from ours.

Well, bein' a ninjer an' all, I'm accustomed to trying to "fit in". If I found myself in Fluffy's dojo, I'd try to behave in a way that _his people would recognize_ as respectful. Were I in some iaido dojo, I'd be bowing to bokken and iaito.

And were Fluffy to visit my dojo, I'd hope he would try to relax and see in what other ways people show respect to their art and each other.


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## shesulsa (Jan 8, 2006)

Thank you very much Mr. Seago, you answered my other implied question which was 'is this a Japanese thing.'  I also concur with your 'When in Rome' philosophy.  I try to, while not dishonoring my own art and traditions, not dishonor another training center / art's specific traditions or practices.

You guys have been very patient with me. Thank you again.


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## Don Roley (Jan 20, 2006)

I don't know which case irritates me more when I run across it in Japan.

On one hand there are the guys that insist on trying to show off by trying to correct you. If they actually knew what they were doing it would not be a problem. There are guys I try to work out with because I know they will give me good advice from time to time. But the ones that _try_ to teach most, seem to know the least. I am sure we have all run into these types.

On the other hand are the guys that seem to want you to teach them. I am not talking about a small correction on a single technique that they can't seem to get. I am talking about guys that show up to Japan without knowing even how to do even _omote gyaku_ and then seem to expect you to take time away from trying out what Hatsumi is showing to teach them it instead. I pay money to get to training as well and a lack of preperation on their part does not mean an emergency on mine.


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## Carol (Jan 29, 2006)

FWIW, a couple of observations...

Much like the suggestion for not putting soy sauce (or any other condiment) on one's rice...a friend told me that the same goes for (green) tea.  Asking for anything to put in the tea (ie: sugar, lemon, milk) is a big insult.



For the ladies...

If you wear nylons, pack plenty of them.  Japanese women typically do not wear them.  They can be found at larger department stores or specialty items, but they are sold (and priced) like an exotic item - $20-30/pair.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 29, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> If you wear nylons, pack plenty of them.  Japanese women typically do not wear them.  They can be found at larger department stores or specialty items, but they are sold (and priced) like an exotic item - $20-30/pair.



Wow.

Guy could make a killing.

hehe.


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## Carol (Jan 29, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Wow.
> 
> Guy could make a killing.
> 
> hehe.


 
That's quite an image.  Although, I suppose that could defray the travel costs a bit.  :lol2:


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## Cryozombie (Jan 29, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> That's quite an image.  Although, I suppose that could defray the travel costs a bit.  :lol2:



Ha, maybe.  But then again, I have no idea what Pantyhose cost here in the U.S. either...


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## Don Roley (Feb 2, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> For the ladies...
> 
> If you wear nylons, pack plenty of them.  Japanese women typically do not wear them.  They can be found at larger department stores or specialty items, but they are sold (and priced) like an exotic item - $20-30/pair.



I asked my wife about this and she says no. She says that if you are paying more than about 5 dollars for a pair, you are getting some sort of fancy brand.

It strikes me that trying to find them in western sizes may be a problem. I have no idea if those things are one size fit all or not. And really, it would probably be easier to buy them in your home country than waste your limited time in Japan searching for them.

BTW- why is this considered a rant instead of in the advice thread?


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## rutherford (Feb 2, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> BTW- why is this considered a rant instead of in the advice thread?


I can see you've never worn them, or had to replace a pair in a hurry because of a runner - or Stairway to Heaven as I like to call them. :uhyeah:

You can get them in just about any gas station or other small store, on this side of the water.


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## Kreth (Feb 2, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> BTW- why is this considered a rant instead of in the advice thread?


I'm still trying to figure out how stockings tie into training. Was there a change made to the dress code that I'm not aware of?


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## rutherford (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, you can wear them like a mask, or use them like an improvised Kusari Fundo.  You don't train in stockings? 

It's just they're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.

%-}


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## Cryozombie (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I read it as "Its a pet peeve of mine that I have to pay so much for pantyhose when I train in japan"

But what do I know...


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## Bigshadow (Feb 2, 2006)

So I suppose it would be inappropriate to bring my pink tabi to DKS? :rofl:


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## Cryozombie (Feb 2, 2006)

Prolly no worse than my fuzzy tiger stripe gi.


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## shesulsa (Feb 5, 2006)

Hose are excellent for tying people up with - you should know all about that, TP.:supcool:


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## Don Roley (Feb 8, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Hose are excellent for tying people up with - you should know all about that, TP.:supcool:



_Don jumps into the conversation in a desperate attempt to stop it from getting really silly......_

You know, this really is not much of a rant... But I remember one guy that was so eager to get his notes done that he had his notebook strapped to his leg and would start writing them out in the middle of class while everyone started in on practicing the move. He even managed to finish in time to practice the moves himself five or six times over the course of the evening.


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## mpearce (Feb 8, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Speaking as a Bujinkan member living in Japan, the outlook I see toward the belt is a heck of a lot different from what I see Fluffy the Korean stylist  saying. The outloolk of people I see around me is that it is just a piece of cloth. Putting too much emphisis on it almost seems to be looked on as a form of egotism. The Japanese teachers all get new belts when the old ones get a bit ragged. The guys that come from overseas with belts nearly white with age stand out by comparison.
> 
> And those guys, with their big show of having an ancient belt, are the subject of another rant I could give.



the one that I like the best is the guy that wears his belt higher than his elbows. It's like a geek with wearing high water pants, only thing missing is the pocket protector for the secret shiruken pocket.


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## Don Roley (Apr 8, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> People who take translators for granted. This person is giving up part of their training time to help you understand what's being said. A thanks is in order at the very least.



Just as a side note... Last Thursday a guy was in my class and brought two big bottles of Samual Adams for me to show thanks for translating. I hope I did enough for him as a translator to show how gratefull I was. It does not take a bribe (though they don't hurt) it is just damn nice to have someone acknowledge that you are not a peice of furniture and thank you from time to time.


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## Dale Seago (Apr 13, 2006)

What, no single malt?!?


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## Don Roley (Apr 13, 2006)

Dale Seago said:
			
		

> What, no single malt?!?



Can get that easily in Japan, and a bit cheaper than I can in the states too I think. Something abotu taxes and import duties. But Sam Adams is pretty rare. I can only get the standard stuff, small bottle at about 3 bucks a pop. Ouch! I can't get any of the seasonals or special brews. So it is nice that one of your students took the time to bring two big bottles of the stuff.:cheers:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 20, 2006)

In an attempt to revive this very enlightening thread I will propose the following.  Don, next time I am in Japan I will make sure that you get some Sam Adams!
artyon: 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Don Roley (Jul 20, 2006)

Well, if you want to revive the thread here is something we can talk about.

This was posted on George Ohashi's web site on July 11th. I just spotted it while double checking the location for training tonight.



> One more thing from the Hombu/Ayase Class Admin.
> 
> Soon after I started making announcements at the end of the Ayase class today, a lot of people ignored me, stood up, walked around and started chatting with others.  Such a behavior is considered very rude in this country (especially in the Budo field) even if not in some other countries.  At least I and the translator were offended and disgusted this time.  I make announcements on important things at the end of each class (when all the people are still sitting there) because that is the best timing to do so.  If you cannot keep listening to me carefully just for half a minute, please don't come to the class.  At least keep silent for all the others!  Or shouldn't I make any more announcements in the Dojo?



The thing about the above is that so many people ask me where they can train when Hatsumi is not. Folks, if you listen for a second to the announcements after training, you probably will hear who will be training at the honbu and the times.

It is a matter of respect. You would not want to miss something because someone was yacking, don't make anyone else miss something important.

Oh, and Brian... I can get Samual Adams sometimes in Japan but I can never find things like their Summer Brew. Keep that in mind. :cheers: I'll introduce you to a little pub near the station where Nagase trains.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 29, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Well, if you want to revive the thread here is something we can talk about.
> 
> This was posted on George Ohashi's web site on July 11th. I just spotted it while double checking the location for training tonight.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Don,

First that is really an important time.  The announcements really let you know what is going on and who will be teaching at the Hombu and when.  Plus it is just plain courteous to listen and pay attention as some very important detail might be mentioned.

*Sam Adams summer brew*.  No problem.  When I come I will bring you some.

Plus I do like pubs and when I was there last time I missed Nagase Sensei's classes and would love the opportunity to train with him! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (definately would not miss it again)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Don Roley (Aug 31, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> _Don jumps into the conversation in a desperate attempt to stop it from getting really silly......_
> 
> You know, this really is not much of a rant... But I remember one guy that was so eager to get his notes done that he had his notebook strapped to his leg and would start writing them out in the middle of class while everyone started in on practicing the move. He even managed to finish in time to practice the moves himself five or six times over the course of the evening.



Here is another story of a similar slant.

A couple of weeks ago Hatsumi starts off the class by commenting about how we are beyond being technique collectors with huge notebooks and instead we are moving into the feeling behind the techniques.

And for the rest of the class this one guy in the back keeps grabbing his notebook after Hatsumi finishes demonstating instead of trying out the move. :whip:

Oh, and Brian, thanks and let me know when you will be out here.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 31, 2006)

I am coming next summer for sure June or July. (*no matter what*)  It also looks like my wife will be coming as well and if everything works out then Bart Uggucioni of the Dexter Bujinkan Dojo will be coming and bringing some students as well.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 31, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Here is another story of a similar slant.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago Hatsumi starts off the class by commenting about how we are beyond being technique collectors with huge notebooks and instead we are moving into the feeling behind the techniques.
> 
> And for the rest of the class this one guy in the back keeps grabbing his notebook after Hatsumi finishes demonstating instead of trying out the move. :whip:


 
That gentleman obviously was not listening and was missing Soke's most important point of the day.  That is to bad and rude as well.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Bujingodai (Sep 1, 2006)

Sure you wouldn't rather some good Canadian beer Don? I'll be there in 3 wks LOL


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## Don Roley (Sep 4, 2006)

Bujingodai said:


> Sure you wouldn't rather some good Canadian beer Don? I'll be there in 3 wks LOL



Moosehead!!!!!!!!


I have never seen the stuff in ten years in Japan!!!!! A fair beer, made more desired by it's lack.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 4, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> Moosehead!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> I have never seen the stuff in ten years in Japan!!!!! A fair beer, made more desired by it's lack.




I like a micro brew I just found in Canada, I think it is called Creemore.

I liked there amber.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 4, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> Moosehead!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> I have never seen the stuff in ten years in Japan!!!!! A fair beer, made more desired by it's lack.



Haha.  The wing place I go always has moosehead on special here... 24 ounce glasses for 3 bucks.


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## Kreth (Sep 4, 2006)

Let's get this back on topic, gentlem----mmmmmmm, beer.


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## Don Roley (Sep 5, 2006)

I think this is the first time I have ever been told to _get back_ to complaining. :uhyeah:


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Sep 5, 2006)

I suggest picking on people who can't speak English.:EG:


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## DannyinJapan (Sep 25, 2006)

Hello Everybody. My first post, I dont intend to chat too much.Somebody asked me to put in two cents here as I am often the "clean-up guy" for some of this BS. First off, _this whole thread is possibly not entirely Kosher by Japanese standards. Japanese budo schools like to keep problems inside the family, if you know what I mean._ Candid and frank discussions of unpleasant subjects are not common in Japan. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Please never ever refer to any Japanese teacher without using the title "sensei" or at least "san" after his or her name. This applies to speaking and writing. This is a really basic rule of etiquette.

Putting milk in green tea or soy sauce on rice - Eat your food however the hell you want to. If you paid for it, it's yours. In five years I have never met any Japanese people who cared at all what I put on my rice or in my tea. (yes I asked)

Panty hose are a part of the dress code for female teachers and city hall employees when they wear their skirts. 

"People leaving a class when they find out one of the Shihan is teaching instead of Soke."
This ought not to be discussed in public. It is an issue, but really not for public discussion. If you show up at the hombu for a class, stay for the class. That's all that ought to be said.

I sometimes lay down in between classes. It's been humid as hell and hot as hell and I just couldnt do 4 hours without being able to lay down and close my eyes for a bit. George has been coming over and fanning me while I lay there. thank God the weather has finally changed. 65 and clear skies. I love the Fall in Japan!

"Trash issue of course....Training bags/shoes....some care needs to be taken by everyone to allow Soke and everyone else clear path to walk into and out of areas they need to go..."

I spend about 5 minutes of every class cleaning up the bags and piling them into a mountain next to the armor so that Sensei and his cameraman can get in and out of the training area. People can be pretty selfish and totally unaware. More than that, people have been crowding Sensei while he is teaching, instead of backing up against the wall or sitting down as far away from the center of the room as possible. We had to actually ask people, during class, to back the heck up so the cameraman could get out there and film Yabu san's grimaces. 

As to individual people's behavior like wanting to be the teacher or doing something different from Sensei or whatever, that is all a part of learning Budo, people have to grow and learn. It can be annoying and sometimes dangerous, but you can always go to the bathroom and then find a different partner. I do it all the time. If you get a crackerhead, just go get some tea, clear your thoughts, and go find someone else.


Believe me, there is NO WAY that people who don't get it will ever fool Sensei into believing that they do get it. It's all in your taijutsu and that always tells the truth. Sensei will say " ok, you teach." You will get up and do something and Sensei will know by your movement how much you understand. It's the ultimate lie detector. Rehearsed techniques, physical wrestling stuff, it's all easy to recognize and Sensei knows before you even do it what's going on.

So do yourself a favor and understand that Sensei (all of them) is watching you from the minute you show up until you leave. You show him how good or bad your budo is by how you stack your shoes, how you stack your gear bags, where you stand when he is teaching, what we say on the internet....there are a million things.. Sensei is a _very_ smart and observant man.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 25, 2006)

Hi Danny we are glad to have you hear and hope that you post more often!


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## Don Roley (Sep 25, 2006)

DannyinJapan said:


> Please never ever refer to any Japanese teacher without using the title "sensei" or at least "san" after his or her name. This applies to speaking and writing. This is a really basic rule of etiquette.



That is true if you are in Japan and writing in a Japanese context. This is not the case. When in Rome, do as the Romans do and if we make a big show of trying to respect Hatsumi we turn people off. There are certain people I will definatly *not* use an honorific with. And if I make a big show of using the term with Hatsumi and not them, it stands out. In Japan you use terms like that with everyone. To only use it with one or a few people and ignore the rest is not correct.

And I really do not think that the subjects we are discussing are out of bounds. There are certain things that should not be discussed- like who will succeed Hatsumi because they are rather morbid. But I don't think you are going to make any friends here by playing the judge and jury as to what people can say and talk about.

There are certain things that people should just use commone sense over. Like not talking constantly during class. "God damn! Koku again! I have seen this so many times! Why do we have to do this again!" I actually heard some idiot say that, and a lot of other things, while he was working out next to me at honbu last year. This huge idiot just ran his mouth the entire time we were training.  Can't people just be quite with the commentary during training?

Or for that matter, there are times when using the internet should be a danger. Telling the entire world about someone's promotion sounds like a good idea. But maybe the guy wants to tell people themselves. Especially if he has not told his Bujinkan teacher about a rank promotion in another martial art. If someone makes godan here in Japan and I know them. I will let them get back to their country and tell their family before I tell anyone here. Those of you with internet access in Japan while visiting might remember that.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 25, 2006)

Now Im afraid to come.​


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## Kizaru (Sep 25, 2006)

Technopunk said:


> Now Im afraid to come.​


 
That's okay, if you're afraid, I'm sure we could find someone to hold your hand while you're here...


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## Cryozombie (Sep 25, 2006)

Kizaru said:


> That's okay, if you're afraid, I'm sure we could find someone to hold your hand while you're here...


 
Ah... tempting... but I wouldnt want to Upset Don, so maybe Ill stick with the first one.

On a serious note, I'm really hoping to make it there next year.


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## Don Roley (Sep 26, 2006)

Kizaru said:


> That's okay, if you're afraid, I'm sure we could find someone to hold your hand while you're here...



I'm suddenly afraid! Send her over to comfort me! Help me please! I need the one in armor!

But on a more serious note, just spotted this on George Ohashi's site.



> Please tell us if you have broken a weapon in the Dojo.  Everybody can make mistakes, but it's much worse if you conceal the fact and behave as if nothing had happened.



Why the hell do we need to even mention stuff like this? It is just freaking common sense that you own up when you accidently break something. I just do not stop being surprised at what people do while they are over here.


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## Bujingodai (Sep 29, 2006)

After returning from Japan. I can say that there were a few things I didn't care too much for as for pet peeves. One of which would be eating on the mats. That kinds of irks me personally.
There were some others but that one particulaly stuck out to me at this moment.

I also find the over abundance of people explaining the answer to some etherial question, when they are looking for it too.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 30, 2006)

Bujingodai said:


> After returning from Japan. I can say that there were a few things I didn't care too much for as for pet peeves. One of which would be eating on the mats. That kinds of irks me personally.
> There were some others but that one particulaly stuck out to me at this moment.
> 
> I also find the over abundance of people explaining the answer to some etherial question, when they are looking for it too.


 
Hey Dave,

maybe you could start a thread and talk about your experience over in Japan!


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## Bujingodai (Sep 30, 2006)

I may do that.


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