# Are low kicks underated ?



## early (Apr 26, 2007)

I see everyone at my gym trying to kick higher and higher , and it does
look really impresive . 

But after a sparring session last night I found out how damaging the unasuming low kick can be , the other fella was taller than I was so rather than block them I was soaking them up while trying to get in close quickly , well that idea didn't last long , after one round my leg was stiffening up and I'm still feeling it's effects the next day .

I'm now a convert and low kicks are going to be practised every session


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2007)

Exactly right! No higher than the stomach area, but, almost exclusively lower than that. Save the head kicks for when there down. (oh wait! That's illegal. Sorry that's the old kempo coming out of me -lol)


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## savior (Apr 26, 2007)

Try kicking in their torso a few times. One of the times, they will block your kick by raising their shin, when they do, sweep under their block and attack their one supporting leg


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 26, 2007)

Low kicks are extremly effective.


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## stickarts (Apr 26, 2007)

I think the effectiveness of low kicks are often overlooked.
I have seen many techniques taught and practiced and the notion that low kicks could be used were often overlooked by the practicioners.

Once you add them in it changes the fight considerably!


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## kidswarrior (Apr 26, 2007)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Exactly right! No higher than the stomach area, but, almost exclusively lower than that. Save the head kicks for when there down. (oh wait! That's illegal. Sorry that's the old kempo coming out of me -lol)





			
				Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Low kicks are extremly effective.





stickarts said:


> I think the effectiveness of low kicks are often overlooked.
> 
> Once you add them in it changes the fight considerably!



Yeah, less chance of a catch or sweep by opponent. Less chance the opponent will even see it (just feel it!). And if only _some _kicks land (law of averages), you're not hanging in midair after a failed kick. And rich targets? Fuhgitaboutit! You can easily win a fight with a couple of kicks to targets from hip joint down.


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## Kieran (Apr 26, 2007)

Yeah, I agree. I've seen fights stopped because the fighter couldn't stand. My Kru has told me of fights where the guys lead leg was black from his hip to his knee because he wasn't fast enough to defend his opponents low kicks.

I would only use a kick higher than the ribs to unsettle the opponent and show him that I can kick him in the head if I felt like it and even then, only at the start of the fight. Taking out a fighters legs with powerful low kicks is the most basic muay thai strategy. Try varying where you kick your opponent. There will generally be 8 targets for your kicks below the hip and varying between them will rattle your opponent more and leave him sore all over!

(inside and outside of both thighs = 4, inside and outside of each calf = 4)

It's often easier to kick the opponents lead leg and more spcifically inside the thigh but that's he first kick we learned to defend too! (aside from a teep).


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 26, 2007)

early said:


> I see everyone at my gym trying to kick higher and higher , and it does
> look really impresive .
> 
> But after a sparring session last night I found out how damaging the unasuming low kick can be , the other fella was taller than I was so rather than block them I was soaking them up while trying to get in close quickly , well that idea didn't last long , after one round my leg was stiffening up and I'm still feeling it's effects the next day .
> ...


I don't think so. It would depend on whom you talk to. I had a hardstyle intructor accuse me of kicking at rats. LOL I was no longer interested in what he had to teach.
Sean


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## zDom (Apr 26, 2007)

It is because low kicks are so effective that they are not allowed in many point sparring competitions, I believe. Too easy for an injury to occur.


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## geocad (Apr 26, 2007)

To chop a tree down you start at the base and work both sides.

Don't forget to switch it up.  Enough low kicks may allow that show stopper to the head to sneak in.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 26, 2007)

Kieran said:


> Yeah, I agree. I've seen fights stopped because the fighter couldn't stand. My Kru has told me of fights where the guys lead leg was black from his hip to his knee because he wasn't fast enough to defend his opponents low kicks.
> 
> There will generally be 8 targets for your kicks below the hip and varying between them will rattle your opponent more and leave him sore all over!
> 
> (inside and outside of both thighs = 4, inside and outside of each calf = 4)


I might just add: Inside and outside of each knee =4, front and back of each knee = 4, front and inside of both shins = 4. So, with the first 8, that makes 20 good, easy to hit (close usually counts), effective targets.

Just saw a local news story last night where a 16-year-old girl was attacked by an intruder, who pushed her to the couch and fell on top of her. At first, she said she decided to be passive. Then she decided to fight back. They wrestled their way off the couch and ended up in a standling grappling position, at which time she kicked him in the front of the knee. He immediately dropped straight to the floor and she ran out the front door. The police easily caught the guy.


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## neversubmit (Apr 26, 2007)

i dont think they are underated. i see them used in a considerable amount. if anything at all i think clinching is underrated. i hate when they break it up. leave um in clinch! lol.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 26, 2007)

I have said it before

Why kick high when there is SO much from the waist down just asking to be kicked.


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## thaistyle (Apr 26, 2007)

Low kicks are an excellent weapon.  In muay chaiya all kicks are mostly low and very seldom thrown high.  I train head kicks, although I focus most of my kicking on the torso or lower due the effectiveness of low kicks.  They work very well against a taller or heavier opponent.  Train them and make them a powerful weapon.


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## Kieran (Apr 27, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> I might just add: Inside and outside of each knee =4, front and back of each knee = 4, front and inside of both shins = 4. So, with the first 8, that makes 20 good, easy to hit (close usually counts), effective targets.


 
Cheers, totally forgot about the knees! haha. I was actually touching on my own leg where I would kick and I passed right over the knees!

A peck kick delivered directly above the knee is extremely sore!


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## Odin (Apr 27, 2007)

people you think muay thai leg kicks are underated clearly have not been hit with a muay thai leg kick.


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## hrlmonkey (Apr 27, 2007)

from a self defence point of view as well, they are far more practical than high kicks.  why give the opponent an opportunity to catch your leg and take you down?  a few kicks to the legs and they have a harder time running after you


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## zDom (Apr 27, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have said it before
> 
> Why kick high when there is SO much from the waist down just asking to be kicked.



a) Because a single head kick can END a fight

b) Head kick can knockout them out instead of crippling ("don't maim when to hurt is enough")

c) kicking to the head is FUN and looks boogey-cool 

I can see your aversion, though, as trees generally don't have heads


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## hrlmonkey (Apr 27, 2007)

if somebody catches your single head kick, it can most certainly end a fight. as proven so many times in the past.  do you trust your kicking speed and power to be better than the blocking and trapping skills of your opponent?


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## kidswarrior (Apr 27, 2007)

hrlmonkey said:


> if somebody catches your single head kick, it can most certainly end a fight.


So can a knee kick. Or a shin kick. Even a toe to the thigh, especially if quickly repeated to same spot.  



> do you trust your kicking speed and power to be better than the blocking and trapping skills of your opponent?


No. Not above the bladder/hip crease line. :ultracool


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## hrlmonkey (Apr 27, 2007)

sorry, i was refering to the victim trapping the head kick, and taking the kicker down. possibly doing a hellish amount of damage to the kicker at the same time - fight over.

i personally prefer the fight/ self defence option that leg kicks offer.  i feel safer using them, as opposed to sacrificing myself by using high kicks.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 27, 2007)

zDom said:


> a) Because a single head kick can END a fight
> 
> b) Head kick can knockout them out instead of crippling ("don't maim when to hurt is enough")
> 
> ...


 

a) Because a single head kick can END a fight &#8211; yes and you better not miss. And a single kick to the knee, shin or a stomp on the foot can too. 

b) Head kick can knockout them out instead of crippling ("don't maim when to hurt is enough"). - Depends on why I am fighting but if I stomp their foot or a kick to the shin it will not cripple either. Also a head kick can knock them out, cripple then and or kill them depending on who you kick, how hard you kick and what they fall on. 
 
c) kicking to the head is FUN and looks boogey-cool  - Well you got me there, I use to train them and they were very fun an very cool

I can see your aversion, though, as trees generally don't have heads&#8230; Even if they did they would be 20 or more feet off the ground and I DARE you to kick someone that tall in the head. 

I really do not have anything against head kicks, if you like them and use them that is great. I do not use or train them and I do not use or train jump kicks anymore either.


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## King (Apr 27, 2007)

Underrated? Most of the people I spar heavily relies on low kicks. The ratio is almost 3 low:1 high. High kicks are spectacular when they connect, maybe that's why they are so memorable. But you don't see the effect of low kicks until later rounds when the victim's thigh starts looking like bad hamburger meat. All I say is, the more tools you have in your shed -- the more options you have disassembling your opponent's defenses.


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## zDom (Apr 27, 2007)

hrlmonkey said:


> if somebody catches your single head kick, it can most certainly end a fight. as proven so many times in the past.



Like when Gabriel Gonzaga caught Mirko Cro Cop's kick? Oh wait ... that was a LOW kick he caught...and it didn't end the fight. Nevermind 

What ended that fight? Oh yea.. it was the kick Cro-cop caught &#8212; in the HEAD 

All ribbing aside,



hrlmonkey said:


> do you trust your kicking speed and power to be better than the blocking and trapping skills of your opponent?



Yes, I do.

But then, your mileage may vary. For me, a "clinch" would be a bad choice; I'm not as comfortable there as a Muay Thai fighter, for example. But I'm very comfortable with high kicking.

But then, this is about LOW kicking &#8212; and that is ANOTHER benefit of low kicking.

A couple of low kicks can really set someone up for a high kick to finish them off.

I am a big fan of ALL kicking. It is my personal forte.

Speaking just for me, while I think a head kick may knock them clean out, I think the results of a low kick would be much nastier. Chances are, they will wake up from the head kick with a mild concussion no worse for the wear after a week or so.

But a dislocated, broken or even slightly hyperextended knee may bother them for years. It may NEVER be right again without extensive knee surgery.


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## hrlmonkey (Apr 27, 2007)

my whole point there, was that low kicks give a better chance of survival in a fight, than trying to kick somebody in the head.


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## zDom (Apr 27, 2007)

hrlmonkey said:


> my whole point there, was that low kicks give a better chance of survival in a fight, than trying to kick somebody in the head.



I understand that, but I think you are making a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true all the time.

Not saying low kicks are GREAT, because they ARE. A great tool for your martial art technique toolbox.

But its like you are arguing that a hammer is ALWAYS great and circular saw is ALWAYS too dangerous to use  Sure, most people can use a hammer and some people should never TOUCH a circular saw 

But it also really depends on who you are fighting, too. Lift up a leg to kick someone with some decent throwing skills, and they may reap (osoto gari) you onto your head no matter WHERE you kick - ankle or head.

If you are kicking high, your upper body will already be lower to the ground which means it won't hit nearly as hard as you would if you are reaped from the upright position for a low kick.

Also watch out for ouchi gari or a number of other throws and sweeps while low kicking.

People hurt their thumbs with hammers all the time


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## Drag'n (Apr 27, 2007)

I'm with z dom on this.
Its never a matter of which one technique is best. Its being able to mix it up and always have your opponent guessing which makes a good fighter.
If you just kick low, hes going to adjust and block you. Getting low kicks blocked often causes more damage to the kicker than the blocker.
Same goes for just kicking middle or high. You'll get caught and swept easily.
By mixing it up, using feints,etc you can create opennings and attack them. Low middle or high. The best target is the one thats open.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 28, 2007)

Cancelled the double post. Sorry.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 28, 2007)

Drag'n said:


> I'm with z dom on this.
> Its never a matter of which one technique is best. Its being able to mix it up and always have your opponent guessing which makes a good fighter.
> 
> By mixing it up, using feints,etc you can create opennings and attack them. Low middle or high. The best target is the one thats open.



I agree with this in principle (after I edited it to say what I wanted.  Sorry, Drag'n--but I don't think I really altered the meaning any).

But for those of us with a deep seated aversion to high kicking, why can't I use my hands to 'mix it up' and go high/mid torso with feint, strike, setup move, or finishing move? 

In other words, I agree with the principle that we must mix up the different zones. In fact, the techniqes I've chosen to teach almost always use a high, low, and medium piece (in various order). But we have four striking weapons, not just two. So speaking for myself, I am confident I can occupy him head high/upper torso with all manner of hand techniques while plotting/executing low kicks--and vice versa. 

Now, this doesn't mean I prescribe this for everyone (just my students ). Hapkido was my first art, and I've seen guys who were as good as I imagine zDom to be (Drag'n, sorry I don't know your background as well as zDom's; for all I know you may be just as good). They could put a kick to the head on you as fast as many _good _boxers can throw a left hook. But in hindsight, I think that either they were just very gifted, or exactly the right age and experience level combined to give them superb skills--for a time. But those skills may erode over the decades, while low kicks should not--have not for me, anyway, and I'm 55. 

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## zDom (Apr 28, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> I agree with this in principle  ...
> 
> But for those of us with a deep seated aversion to high kicking, why can't I use my hands to 'mix it up' and go high/mid torso with feint, strike, setup move, or finishing move?
> 
> ...



That's a good point, Kidswarrior.

While the high kicking allows for more variation on this theme (one great combo that comes to mind is a punch to the low gut to set up a high roundhouse), you are right on the money: you CAN use the hands to attack the high targets and set up low kicks, and vice versa (seen this used to GREAT effect: set them up with a low kick to open up a knockout-hand technique).

And as much as it grieves me, I know a day will come when I will hang up my high kicks &#8212; but hopefully those low kicks will _always_ be there for me!


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## thaistyle (Apr 29, 2007)

During sparring sessions or a fight, I always mixed it up using both low and high kicks.  I tend to watch for an opening or what the opponent is not defending.  In a street fight it would be a different story.  I probably would rely on low kicks especially if it were a much larger opponent.  Train them, perfect them and use them both.  High kicks and low kicks can both be flashy and spectacular.


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## MetalStorm (May 1, 2007)

early said:


> I see everyone at my gym trying to kick higher and higher , and it does
> look really impresive .
> 
> But after a sparring session last night I found out how damaging the unasuming low kick can be , the other fella was taller than I was so rather than block them I was soaking them up while trying to get in close quickly , well that idea didn't last long , after one round my leg was stiffening up and I'm still feeling it's effects the next day .
> ...


 

Leg kicks can hurt like hell, I dont think they are under rated but I think you do see a lot less of them in Muay Thai fights than you do in other fights due to the amount of training that goes into blocking them.

I have never had a full force leg kicked blocked with no shin guards but even just play sparring and getting a really good kick blocked properly can hurt like hell.

From what I have been told by a few people that is the reason you dont see them as much, when someone realizes their opponent is pretty solid in blocking the leg kicks they dont use them as much or as hard to not risk hurting themselves on the block.


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## MetalStorm (May 1, 2007)

Also a good video I watched that shows how great leg kicks can be was that Muay Thai guy fighting butterbean, I imagine just searching for butterbean on youtube will find it.

He barely did anything other than leg kick, eventually butterbean just fell over.


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