# Sticks are easy to come by



## PhotonGuy (Feb 21, 2021)

Some martial arts schools like to teach stick fighting because sticks are easy to come by and therefore its a good weapon to learn. Chances are you're not going to be carrying around a weapon such as a naginata or a pair of kamas nor are you likely to find such weapons lying around but with sticks its another story.

Some people here have disagreed with me about that, I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods, but I have this to say, how would sticks be not hard to come by? You can find them just about everywhere. Baseball bats, umbrellas, chair legs, golf clubs, crowbars, canes, lamp stands, tire irons, fireplace pokers, the list goes on and on. I don't see how in most cases sticks would be hard to come by.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 21, 2021)

Most of those aren't things that I have on me at any given point, or are easy to find at any given point. The only exception would probably be chair legs and umbrellas-with chair legs, most likely I'd get hit trying to rip it off the chair, and same thing with umbrella, trying to close the umbrella so I could use it.


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## drop bear (Feb 22, 2021)




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## jobo (Feb 22, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Some martial arts schools like to teach stick fighting because sticks are easy to come by and therefore its a good weapon to learn. Chances are you're not going to be carrying around a weapon such as a naginata or a pair of kamas nor are you likely to find such weapons lying around but with sticks its another story.
> 
> Some people here have disagreed with me about that, I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods, but I have this to say, how would sticks be not hard to come by? You can find them just about everywhere. Baseball bats, umbrellas, chair legs, golf clubs, crowbars, canes, lamp stands, tire irons, fireplace pokers, the list goes on and on. I don't see how in most cases sticks would be hard to come by.


if you actualy want a stick, then carry a stick, for a time in my life i carried a kids base ball bat in a rucksack with the top few inches stuck out for quick draw , then after being repeatedly hasseled by the police , i replaced it with a ali teloscopoc walking pole. my car always had my two piece pool cue close at hand

finding anything close to   those at effectivness at short notice is a tall order even in a woods


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## wab25 (Feb 22, 2021)

So... I grew up on a walnut orchard... I stacked a lot of brush... I never found one naturally occurring hanbo, jo or bo. I did a lot of camping and backpacking when I was younger. Never found any hanbo, jo or bo in the woods. We found walking sticks once... By that I mean, we found young trees growing, we used a small hatchet to cut them down, and trim the branches off, used a pocket knife to make them smooth, then dried them by the fire...

The point is... everyone thinks that the easy place to find a stick to fight with... is in the woods. Try it some time... go off into the woods, or to a camping site and find a hanbo, jo or bo. A few things you will learn... if the stick is on the ground not connected to a tree... it is very brittle. If its not brittle... it is still connected to a tree and will take some work to get it unconnected. The worst part is... nature does not make long, straight and smooth sticks very often. And most sticks that have the length you want, are not an inch or two in diameter.

I think it would be easier to find a stick to fight with in the city... as there might actually be a pool cue, broom or baseball bat around somewhere. Still a fun game to play, would be to look around when you are out... find a stick to fight with. The billiards hall might be pretty easy... the grocery store maybe a bit harder... the parking lot, not so much...

Sure, you can carry one in your vehicle. But how useful is it really? No one will pause the fight, to let you open your trunk and get it out. If you got out of the car for whatever reason without it... you won't be able to get it. (if you can get back in the car... drive away) If they see you have the weapon before getting out of the car, they won't let you out...

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy training with these weapons. I just don't think they are as easily available as other folks think. If I am accosted out in the woods... I am not sure I could grab one to use from my surroundings. In the city, maybe... if I am in the right location at the right time. Note to bad guys: Do not attack me in the dowel section of Home Depot...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 22, 2021)

wab25 said:


> So... I grew up on a walnut orchard... I stacked a lot of brush... I never found one naturally occurring hanbo, jo or bo. I did a lot of camping and backpacking when I was younger. Never found any hanbo, jo or bo in the woods. We found walking sticks once... By that I mean, we found young trees growing, we used a small hatchet to cut them down, and trim the branches off, used a pocket knife to make them smooth, then dried them by the fire...
> 
> The point is... everyone thinks that the easy place to find a stick to fight with... is in the woods. Try it some time... go off into the woods, or to a camping site and find a hanbo, jo or bo. A few things you will learn... if the stick is on the ground not connected to a tree... it is very brittle. If its not brittle... it is still connected to a tree and will take some work to get it unconnected. The worst part is... nature does not make long, straight and smooth sticks very often. And most sticks that have the length you want, are not an inch or two in diameter.
> 
> ...


This is why you carry a counterpart of the weapon with you (for a stick, that would most likely be a cane).


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## wab25 (Feb 22, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This is why you carry a counterpart of the weapon with you (for a stick, that would most likely be a cane).


My point was... finding a stick to fight with is harder than most people think. Especially out in the woods. Sure there are a lot of sticks... but not many you can fight with. And even fewer that resemble your jo. In fact, naginata might be a better training weapon for what you would find in the woods that you could fight with.... its going to be heavier on one end than the other, and you probably won't be wielding it from the center of the stick.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 22, 2021)

wab25 said:


> My point was... finding a stick to fight with is harder than most people think. Especially out in the woods. Sure there are a lot of sticks... but not many you can fight with. And even fewer that resemble your jo. In fact, naginata might be a better training weapon for what you would find in the woods that you could fight with.... its going to be heavier on one end than the other, and you probably won't be wielding it from the center of the stick.


Yeah, I agree with you. My first post here was actually me stating something similar. Just elaborating on your (and my own) post with a possible solution.


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## frank raud (Feb 22, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Some martial arts schools like to teach stick fighting because sticks are easy to come by and therefore its a good weapon to learn. Chances are you're not going to be carrying around a weapon such as a naginata or a pair of kamas nor are you likely to find such weapons lying around but with sticks its another story.
> 
> Some people here have disagreed with me about that, I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods, but I have this to say, how would sticks be not hard to come by? You can find them just about everywhere. Baseball bats, umbrellas, chair legs, golf clubs, crowbars, canes, lamp stands, tire irons, fireplace pokers, the list goes on and on. I don't see how in most cases sticks would be hard to come by.



 And how many of these "substitutes" will you have quick access to in a self defense situation? A tire iron may be a substitute, but are you expecting a mugger to wait for you to go back to your car, empty out your trunk and retrieve the tire iron? Unless you are attacked on a baseball diamond or a sporting goods store, what are the odds of being close enough to a baseball bat to use one when you need it?
Do you have a better chance of finding something that can substitute for a piece of wood as opposed to a bladed weapon with a blade at a 90 degree angle (kama), or a bladed weapon on the end of a 6 ft stick (naginata)? Well, duh, yeah. But relying on being able to find a stick, or equivalent when you need it is foolhardy. Learn to stick fight because it improves eye hand co-ordination. Learn to stick fight because it's fun. But figuring sticks will magically appear when you need them is dumb.


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## drop bear (Feb 22, 2021)

Man grabbed 5ft narwhal tusk off wall to fight London Bridge knife attacker


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## frank raud (Feb 22, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Man grabbed 5ft narwhal tusk off wall to fight London Bridge knife attacker


I lived in James Bay, we didn't have easy access to narwhal tusks even with them in the waters


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## dvcochran (Feb 22, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Some martial arts schools like to teach stick fighting because sticks are easy to come by and therefore its a good weapon to learn. Chances are you're not going to be carrying around a weapon such as a naginata or a pair of kamas nor are you likely to find such weapons lying around but with sticks its another story.
> 
> Some people here have disagreed with me about that, I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods, but I have this to say, how would sticks be not hard to come by? You can find them just about everywhere. Baseball bats, umbrellas, chair legs, golf clubs, crowbars, canes, lamp stands, tire irons, fireplace pokers, the list goes on and on. I don't see how in most cases sticks would be hard to come by.


There is a big flaw in this logic. The main reason a stick is lying on the ground is because if is weak or dying and the wind has blown it off. It would be useless self defense tool.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Most of those aren't things that I have on me at any given point, or are easy to find at any given point. The only exception would probably be chair legs and umbrellas-with chair legs, most likely I'd get hit trying to rip it off the chair, and same thing with umbrella, trying to close the umbrella so I could use it.


If you have enough time you could rip off a chair leg, if you don't have enough time you could just pick up the entire chair and use that. Same thing with umbrellas, if you don't have time to close it you could fight with it open or the umbrella could be closed in the first place in which case you won't have to close it. Usually umbrellas are kept closed except when you're using them to keep dry.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

jobo said:


> if you actualy want a stick, then carry a stick, for a time in my life i carried a kids base ball bat in a rucksack with the top few inches stuck out for quick draw , then after being repeatedly hasseled by the police , i replaced it with a ali teloscopoc walking pole. my car always had my two piece pool cue close at hand


That would work. I keep a baseball bat in my car. You could carry an umbrella, that most likely won't draw unwanted attention.



jobo said:


> finding anything close to   those at effectivness at short notice is a tall order even in a woods


Are you saying tree branches won't work?


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Sure, you can carry one in your vehicle. But how useful is it really? No one will pause the fight, to let you open your trunk and get it out. If you got out of the car for whatever reason without it... you won't be able to get it. (if you can get back in the car... drive away) If they see you have the weapon before getting out of the car, they won't let you out...


I know a case of this fellow who was out on a date when him and his girlfriend were attacked by these thugs, he was able to retrieve a tire iron from his car and use it to stop the thugs. At least one of them he killed and the others he put in critical condition.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> If I am accosted out in the woods... I am not sure I could grab one to use from my surroundings.


If you're accosted in the woods it will most likely be by a large dangerous animal such as a bear. In that case the kind of "stick" I would recommend carrying would be a high powered rifle, which for obvious reasons would be very effective at stopping human assailants as well, and if you're trained in stick fighting it can be an effective weapon even if unloaded.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

frank raud said:


> And how many of these "substitutes" will you have quick access to in a self defense situation? A tire iron may be a substitute, but are you expecting a mugger to wait for you to go back to your car, empty out your trunk and retrieve the tire iron?


A fellow I know of was able to retrieve a tire iron from his car when him and his girlfriend were attacked.



frank raud said:


> Unless you are attacked on a baseball diamond or a sporting goods store, what are the odds of being close enough to a baseball bat to use one when you need it?


You could be attacked in a locker room or gym where sporting goods equipment happens to be lying around, which includes baseball bats. You could be on your way to or from a baseball game and be carrying a bat with you. You could keep a baseball bat in your car, as I do. 



frank raud said:


> Do you have a better chance of finding something that can substitute for a piece of wood as opposed to a bladed weapon with a blade at a 90 degree angle (kama), or a bladed weapon on the end of a 6 ft stick (naginata)? Well, duh, yeah. But relying on being able to find a stick, or equivalent when you need it is foolhardy. Learn to stick fight because it improves eye hand co-ordination. Learn to stick fight because it's fun. But figuring sticks will magically appear when you need them is dumb.


Obviously sticks aren't going to be magically available whenever you need them but they're more likely to be available than just about any other kind of weapon. You're much more likely to find a stick or something that can substitute as a stick than you are of finding other martial arts weapons. I do think that you shouldn't rely on the chance you might find a stick as a substitute for learning good unarmed fighting skills, but learning to fight with sticks can help if you're in a situation where you have one available.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> There is a big flaw in this logic. The main reason a stick is lying on the ground is because if is weak or dying and the wind has blown it off. It would be useless self defense tool.


Its better than nothing, and there are other types of sticks you can find besides fallen tree branches. Crowbars, baseball bats, lacrosse sticks, golf clubs, hockey sticks, broom and mop handles, umbrellas, tire irons, fireplace pokers, tennis racquets, you name it.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Even lightsaber blades can be used as sticks, if you have them around.


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## wab25 (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> If you're accosted in the woods it will most likely be by a large dangerous animal such as a bear. In that case the kind of "stick" I would recommend carrying would be a high powered rifle, which for obvious reasons would be very effective at stopping human assailants as well, and if you're trained in stick fighting it can be an effective weapon even if unloaded.



You were the one to bring up the woods as being an area where sticks are common.



PhotonGuy said:


> I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods



Sure, sticks are common in the woods. Just not sticks that are viable for self defense or martial arts. 

If you are attacked in the woods... chances are you will be attacked by a snake or spider.... not a bear or other large animal. I wouldn't advise using a high powered rifle on a spider... unless you last name is Baggins.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> If you have enough time you could rip off a chair leg, if you don't have enough time you could just pick up the entire chair and use that. Same thing with umbrellas, if you don't have time to close it you could fight with it open or the umbrella could be closed in the first place in which case you won't have to close it. Usually umbrellas are kept closed except when you're using them to keep dry.


Most people don't have an umbrella handy unless they're using it to keep dry. And you don't need to learn martial arts (and it won't help you) to learn how to throw a chair. 

As for keeping the umbrella open, I don't know about where you live, but where I live when it rains it's normally windy. Try quickly taking an umbrella during rain/wind and using it to hit a friend as they mock attack you. It's difficult, and very unlike the stickfighting you learn in MA. At best the umbrella will act as a shield to block the first strike, which might be enough, but again not how stickfighting would teach you to use a stick.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> I know a case of this fellow who was out on a date when him and his girlfriend were attacked by these thugs, he was able to retrieve a tire iron from his car and use it to stop the thugs. At least one of them he killed and the others he put in critical condition.


Why did he go back, instead of just having the two hop into the car and leave?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Obviously sticks aren't going to be magically available whenever you need them but they're more likely to be available than just about any other kind of weapon. You're much more likely to find a stick or something that can substitute as a stick than you are of finding other martial arts weapons. I do think that you shouldn't rely on the chance you might find a stick as a substitute for learning good unarmed fighting skills, but learning to fight with sticks can help if you're in a situation where you have one available.


This is very different than your initial statement. And no one is arguing against this (or at least hasn't so far). Your statement was that sticks are easy to come by. Then you're using specific situations: You're in a locker room with sporting equipment, you have a tire iron and enough time to go to your car but not enough time to leave, you have an umbrella but it's not actually raining. Those are not common situations, and two of them require you to have placed the stick-like object there in advance. 

Now the statement: _Obviously sticks aren't going to be magically available whenever you need them but they're more likely to be available than just about any other kind of weapon. _Is much different, and that one is true. I'm more likely to find a stick than a nunchuck or chain whip, unless I placed one of those in my car (like with the tire iron) or I carry it around with me (like the umbrella), or I'm in a dojo (like the sporting equipment). Similar, but I'd agree that's less likely in general than a stick-like weapon even though I can prepare for either. 

This statement _but learning to fight with sticks can help if you're in a situation where you have one available._ Is also true, but irrelevant.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Sure, sticks are common in the woods. Just not sticks that are viable for self defense or martial arts.


That depends. 



wab25 said:


> If you are attacked in the woods... chances are you will be attacked by a snake or spider.... not a bear or other large animal. I wouldn't advise using a high powered rifle on a spider... unless you last name is Baggins.


Depends on what woods you're in, but if I was attacked by a snake or spider in the woods I would most likely use a stick that I would already be carrying.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Why did he go back, instead of just having the two hop into the car and leave?


Because they were attacking his girlfriend, I suppose he didn't want her to be raped and/or murdered.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This is very different than your initial statement. And no one is arguing against this (or at least hasn't so far). Your statement was that sticks are easy to come by. Then you're using specific situations: You're in a locker room with sporting equipment, you have a tire iron and enough time to go to your car but not enough time to leave, you have an umbrella but it's not actually raining. Those are not common situations, and two of them require you to have placed the stick-like object there in advance.
> 
> Now the statement: _Obviously sticks aren't going to be magically available whenever you need them but they're more likely to be available than just about any other kind of weapon. _Is much different, and that one is true. I'm more likely to find a stick than a nunchuck or chain whip, unless I placed one of those in my car (like with the tire iron) or I carry it around with me (like the umbrella), or I'm in a dojo (like the sporting equipment). Similar, but I'd agree that's less likely in general than a stick-like weapon even though I can prepare for either.
> 
> This statement _but learning to fight with sticks can help if you're in a situation where you have one available._ Is also true, but irrelevant.


So let me ask you this, do you train with weapons? If so, what kinds of weapons and why?


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Most people don't have an umbrella handy unless they're using it to keep dry. And you don't need to learn martial arts (and it won't help you) to learn how to throw a chair.


There are other ways to fight with a chair, I wouldn't recommend throwing it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Because they were attacking his girlfriend, I suppose he didn't want her to be raped and/or murdered.


That's why I asked "the two" of them. Not familiar with the situation, what happened that he could leave and she couldn't? Also if he trained with a different weapon, it stands to reason he would have had that weapon in his car as well.


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## wab25 (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> That depends.


Please show me the hanbo like, jo like and bo like sticks in these woods...

Or show a picture of real woods, that has martial arts style sticks, naturally occuring.


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## wab25 (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Depends on what woods you're in


In which woods, would you be more likely to be attacked by a bear or other large animal, than by a snake or spider?

Bears do not live in woods that are devoid of other types of animals... they would starve. For every bear, there are a bunch of snakes and ton of spiders. Bears and other large animals do not usually go after humans... we don't really taste that good. Snakes and spiders are good at hiding... thats usually why they attack... they tried to hide from us, and were successful, in that we didn't see them and stepped on them or sat on them. They don't actually track us down to attack...


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> That's why I asked "the two" of them. Not familiar with the situation, what happened that he could leave and she couldn't? Also if he trained with a different weapon, it stands to reason he would have had that weapon in his car as well.


First they attacked him then after they knocked him down they turned their attention to his girlfriend, that's when he was able to get the tire iron from under the front seat of his car.
To the best of my knowledge he did not train with any weapons.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Please show me the hanbo like, jo like and bo like sticks in these woods...
> 
> Or show a picture of real woods, that has martial arts style sticks, naturally occuring.


Its possible to find a stick in the woods that's strong enough to use as a makeshift weapon.


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## Steve (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Please show me the hanbo like, jo like and bo like sticks in these woods...
> 
> Or show a picture of real woods, that has martial arts style sticks, naturally occuring.


Those aren't woods.  Those are pictures.  You won't find any sticks in those pictures at all, much less ones that are like a hanbo, bo, or jo.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> In which woods, would you be more likely to be attacked by a bear or other large animal, than by a snake or spider?


Alaska comes to mind, they've got the big brown bears in the woods up there.

Out in the midwest its not uncommon to find black bears, grizzly bears, and cougars in the woods.


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## wab25 (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Its possible to find a stick in the woods that's strong enough to use as a makeshift weapon.


Its possible to win the lottery as well. 

Any stick you can find in nature that is strong enough to use as a weapon, will be big, heavy and not at all straight.


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## wab25 (Feb 23, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Alaska comes to mind, they've got the big brown bears in the woods up there.
> 
> Out in the midwest its not uncommon to find black bears, grizzly bears, and cougars in the woods.


That was not the question. I can find woods all over that have bears and other large animals. I asked in which woods were you more likely to be attacked by the bear than by a snake or spider. You are right, you could have picked the polar arctic and the polar bears... I am not sure there are many snakes or spiders there....

But, any place where there are black bears, grizzly bears and cougars, bobcats or mountain lions... there are snakes and spiders. These large animals do not normally come after people. People are more likely to step on a snake or sit on a spider than they are to be attacked by a bear. I have a bunch of backpacking experience in bear country and in mountain lion country. I have seen bears while pack backing and while fishing. (fishing was the scary one as the bear wanted the fish... no I did not fight the bear with a stick... I laid the fish down for him and backed away slowly... he was happy with the fish) I have been on a number of trips where people with me were bitten by snakes, spiders and a scorpion once. Every time, it was because they stepped on or near a snake they did not see... or sat down near a spider... or a spider hid in their sleeping bag before they got in.


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## drop bear (Feb 23, 2021)

wab25 said:


> In which woods, would you be more likely to be attacked by a bear or other large animal, than by a snake or spider?
> 
> Bears do not live in woods that are devoid of other types of animals... they would starve. For every bear, there are a bunch of snakes and ton of spiders. Bears and other large animals do not usually go after humans... we don't really taste that good. Snakes and spiders are good at hiding... thats usually why they attack... they tried to hide from us, and were successful, in that we didn't see them and stepped on them or sat on them. They don't actually track us down to attack...


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## Steve (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> That was not the question. I can find woods all over that have bears and other large animals. I asked in which woods were you more likely to be attacked by the bear than by a snake or spider. You are right, you could have picked the polar arctic and the polar bears... I am not sure there are many snakes or spiders there....
> 
> But, any place where there are black bears, grizzly bears and cougars, bobcats or mountain lions... there are snakes and spiders. These large animals do not normally come after people. People are more likely to step on a snake or sit on a spider than they are to be attacked by a bear. I have a bunch of backpacking experience in bear country and in mountain lion country. I have seen bears while pack backing and while fishing. (fishing was the scary one as the bear wanted the fish... no I did not fight the bear with a stick... I laid the fish down for him and backed away slowly... he was happy with the fish) I have been on a number of trips where people with me were bitten by snakes, spiders and a scorpion once. Every time, it was because they stepped on or near a snake they did not see... or sat down near a spider... or a spider hid in their sleeping bag before they got in.


You seem pretty hung up on spiders and snakes.  What are your odds of being "attacked" by a spider in the forest?  I think it's somewhere between "highly unlikely" and "practically zero."  But I'm prepared to be surprised.  Once you share some statistics on that, and come up with that data point, maybe we can find an analogous data point regarding bears.


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## wab25 (Feb 24, 2021)

Steve said:


> You seem pretty hung up on spiders and snakes. What are your odds of being "attacked" by a spider in the forest? I think it's somewhere between "highly unlikely" and "practically zero." But I'm prepared to be surprised. Once you share some statistics on that, and come up with that data point, maybe we can find an analogous data point regarding bears.


My point was that you are more likely to have issues with snakes and spider than you are to have issues with bears. This comes from experience... being in bear country and seeing people bit by spiders and snakes instead of by bears.

But lets get some data...
Bear Attacks | Wise About Bears


> Black bears have killed 67 people across North America since 1900



Spider Bites: How Dangerous Are They?


> So how deadly are black widows? Not as deadly as we tend to believe. According to the National Poison Data Center, about 1,800 Americans were bitten by them in 2013.



Snakebite envenoming.


> Though the exact number of snake bites is unknown, an estimated 5.4 million people are bitten each year with up to 2.7 million envenomings.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 24, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> So let me ask you this, do you train with weapons? If so, what kinds of weapons and why?


I missed this initially.
"do you train with weapons": I do.

"what kinds of weapons": Currently, I train primarily stick, machete, and knife (well-sort of currently. Haven't been in the gym for a bit, and the snow makes it difficult to train outside). I've also trained nunchuck, sai, bo staff, and a couple of different sword styles.

"why?": I enjoy it. That's really the main reason; I'm not really expecting to get into a SD situation where I have a weapon on me, and if that was my main concern, statistically I'd probably be better off just training cardio and sprinting a ton. 

As to where I think you're going with this, yes I train with sticks and knives. I actually think there's a good chance I will have a knife or a improvised knife (scissor, pen, screwdriver, etc.) available, but that is because I'm almost always carrying one of those on me. So it's a matter of me being prepared, not a matter of there always being something easily found (although with an improvised knife the odds are much higher than other weapons). As for a stick, like I said there are very specific situations that I wouldn't rely on getting attacked in, but I can prepare by having one in my car or near my front door, for instance. But back when I was training another weapon, I'd be just as likely to have a sai, for instance, in those places. Depending on where I was, you might even be able to hide a sai or nunchuck in a backpack or a purse/man-bag if you wanted, that you can grab easily.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 24, 2021)

I found this on bear attacks in Yellowstone park (figured I'd go with there since it's a park within bear country). 





> *Type of Recreational Activity: Risk of Grizzly Bear Attack*
> Remain in developed areas, roadsides, and boardwalks: 1 in 59.5 million visits
> Camp in roadside campgrounds: 1 in 26.6 million overnight stays
> Camp in the backcountry: 1 in 1.7 million overnight stays
> ...


Quick note, this says bear attack, not necessarily injury or death. They go into both of those on the site, but this part specifies just an attack occurring on a visit there. 

I found this on a different site, although it's not from a government/official website, just a blog, and I don't see a reference. It also doesn't state what time period it's looking at for this data, or if X has to be the primary cause of death, only cause of death, or if it's including secondary/tertiary causes, so I'd take it with a huge grain of salt. 



> # OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR
> 
> Cause of death ………………… # dead
> Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030
> ...



None of this is relevant to my point, just something that I found interesting.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Some martial arts schools like to teach stick fighting because sticks are easy to come by and therefore its a good weapon to learn. Chances are you're not going to be carrying around a weapon such as a naginata or a pair of kamas nor are you likely to find such weapons lying around but with sticks its another story.
> 
> Some people here have disagreed with me about that, I've even been asked where I live, that I must live in an area where sticks are common such as the woods, but I have this to say, how would sticks be not hard to come by? You can find them just about everywhere. Baseball bats, umbrellas, chair legs, golf clubs, crowbars, canes, lamp stands, tire irons, fireplace pokers, the list goes on and on. I don't see how in most cases sticks would be hard to come by.


I tend to agree they are far more common (in concept) than other weapons. Put me in a department store, and there are likely a number of potential "sticks" within a few steps most of the time. True in a lot of other stores, as well (I sometimes play a game where I stop and count how many usable "sticks" are nearby, and estimate how well they'd work).

Of course, they may not be literal sticks. At the courthouse, I'm usually working the X-ray outtake. The outfeed ramp is a series of rollers. The first roller is not locked in place, is made of sturdy PVC, and weighs a couple of pounds - likely effective, though it may not last more than two hard hits. There's a push stick nearby for clearing stuck items - pretty light and likely to break, but effective for pokes and hitting softer targets. There's an umbrella stand outside the door, and usually someone forgets one, so there's almost always one there - unpredictable in durability, but perhaps usable if I need it more defensively.


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## Steve (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> My point was that you are more likely to have issues with snakes and spider than you are to have issues with bears. This comes from experience... being in bear country and seeing people bit by spiders and snakes instead of by bears.
> 
> But lets get some data...
> Bear Attacks | Wise About Bears
> ...


Couple of additional data points we really need, if we're going to assess how dangerous these two situations are.  

First, where are all of those spider bites coming from?  I mean, are they all in the forest?  If not, and we're comparing apples to apples situations, we'd need to screen out all spider bites that do not occur in the forest (as well as the bear attacks not in the forest).  Do you have that?

Second, we'd also need to figure out the likelihood of death or serious injury.  If you get bitten by a spider and all you need to do is put some antibiotic ointment on it, are we really talking about an "attack" that is analogous to a bear attack?  

Snake bites are a bit more common, but even there, they are not frequent. 

Third thing we need in order for this to make any sense at all on the topic of this thread is, how helpful is a stick going to be in each situation?  If you're being "attacked" by a spider, a snake, or a bear, is the idea that a stick is unhelpful in each situation, helpful in each, or more helpful in some than others?  

Ultimately, my point is, you're responding to the idea of a bear attack being rare with other things that are also very rare, and completely different.  I mean, if you're going to pick nits about this, use something that is statistically significant, like being killed due to exposure, or drowning.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Sure, sticks are common in the woods. Just not sticks that are viable for self defense or martial arts.


I don't know about that. When I'm out hiking, I often come across nice hiking sticks that only need a bit of clean-up. Plenty that were too short for that usage.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> There is a big flaw in this logic. The main reason a stick is lying on the ground is because if is weak or dying and the wind has blown it off. It would be useless self defense tool.


Not necessarily. When hiking, I often find branches on the ground that have good heft and work well as hiking sticks, with minimal clean-up. Not as good as a nicely turned dowel with no obvious flaws, but it would certainly serve.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> My point was... finding a stick to fight with is harder than most people think. Especially out in the woods. Sure there are a lot of sticks... but not many you can fight with. And even fewer that resemble your jo. In fact, naginata might be a better training weapon for what you would find in the woods that you could fight with.... its going to be heavier on one end than the other, and you probably won't be wielding it from the center of the stick.


This is part of the reason I train with various sticks, including some that are not evenly weighted.


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## Steve (Feb 24, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I tend to agree they are far more common (in concept) than other weapons. Put me in a department store, and there are likely a number of potential "sticks" within a few steps most of the time. True in a lot of other stores, as well (I sometimes play a game where I stop and count how many usable "sticks" are nearby, and estimate how well they'd work).
> 
> Of course, they may not be literal sticks. At the courthouse, I'm usually working the X-ray outtake. The outfeed ramp is a series of rollers. The first roller is not locked in place, is made of sturdy PVC, and weighs a couple of pounds - likely effective, though it may not last more than two hard hits. There's a push stick nearby for clearing stuck items - pretty light and likely to break, but effective for pokes and hitting softer targets. There's an umbrella stand outside the door, and usually someone forgets one, so there's almost always one there - unpredictable in durability, but perhaps usable if I need it more defensively.


PVC can be pretty durable, depending on how thick it is.  I've made some sticks for horsing around using lengths of PVC pipe, some insulation for padding, and bicycle grips.  They'll leave a bruise if you get hit too hard, but are generally safe to wail on friends with, and they were very sturdy.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 24, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I don't know about that. When I'm out hiking, I often come across nice hiking sticks that only need a bit of clean-up. Plenty that were too short for that usage.


Do you carry them around with you? And how often do you come across them? This may be a geographical thing, but I think I come across nice hiking sticks when I hike, but in reality I'll probably come across one actual good one every couple of miles. Which means if I were attacked, it would only be useful if I were in that 30 minute period where I was nearby (unless I pick it up then and carry it with me, which brings me back to my "it's not easy to find while being attacked, it's something to prepare with" argument), and even then it might be too far off the path for me to be able to pick it up quickly before I get attacked.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 24, 2021)

An interesting thing to practice, in ptk there is a payong technique/drill, that can very easily be adapted to grabbing the stick from the ground and doing an all-purpose block. It's something interesting to practice-how quickly you can actually pick up a stick without being too rushed and dropping it, and immediately use it to defend yourself. Also a nice thing to practice with knives/pens. Have someone mock-attack you while you try to do it, and you might be surprised that it's tougher to do quickly than you'd think.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 24, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Alaska comes to mind, they've got the big brown bears in the woods up there.
> 
> Out in the midwest its not uncommon to find black bears, grizzly bears, and cougars in the woods.


Grizzly in the Midwest?  Nope.

Black bears and cougars are common?  Again, nope.  Yes, they are there, it’s possible you could encounter one.  But common?  No they are not.  

Out here in California we have mountain lions, and there can be dangerous encounters as we have deeply encroached on their territory and given them no other options.  But still, encounters are not common.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

Steve said:


> PVC can be pretty durable, depending on how thick it is.  I've made some sticks for horsing around using lengths of PVC pipe, some insulation for padding, and bicycle grips.  They'll leave a bruise if you get hit too hard, but are generally safe to wail on friends with, and they were very sturdy.


Yep. The stuff on that roller seems of the more durable variety. I have some padded practice sticks I've made that......aren't.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Do you carry them around with you? And how often do you come across them? This may be a geographical thing, but I think I come across nice hiking sticks when I hike, but in reality I'll probably come across one actual good one every couple of miles. Which means if I were attacked, it would only be useful if I were in that 30 minute period where I was nearby (unless I pick it up then and carry it with me, which brings me back to my "it's not easy to find while being attacked, it's something to prepare with" argument), and even then it might be too far off the path for me to be able to pick it up quickly before I get attacked.


I think this may be the crux of the disagreement on this topic. I don't typically think of a stick as something I'd pick up in the middle of a confrontation. If it's not on me, I'm not stopping what I'm doing to get it. But if I have a chance to do so because a threat is imminent (snake blocking the only reasonable passage to where I need to get to), then I can go grab something.

From a self-defense perspective, the example I use most is someone who has a knife. If they are threatening (not attacking) from a few steps away, I can reach for possible weapons. If they are attacking (or closer), I can't spare the attention. That would apply whether in the woods or a store. I don't think it's a matter of "will you always" or even "will you mostly", but "which weapon is most likely to be handy". And the answer to that last, in my opinion, is some kind of stick.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> An interesting thing to practice, in ptk there is a payong technique/drill, that can very easily be adapted to grabbing the stick from the ground and doing an all-purpose block. It's something interesting to practice-how quickly you can actually pick up a stick without being too rushed and dropping it, and immediately use it to defend yourself. Also a nice thing to practice with knives/pens. Have someone mock-attack you while you try to do it, and you might be surprised that it's tougher to do quickly than you'd think.


I think it's also interesting to practice throwing things at a person. Many folks think throwing anything at someone will cause a long blink. If you manage to throw it accurately at their head, that may be true. If you toss it outside their shoulder, it's unlikely to have much effect - and most folks can't quick-toss something nearly as well as they think.


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## Steve (Feb 24, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> Yep. The stuff on that roller seems of the more durable variety. I have some padded practice sticks I've made that......aren't.


Probably safer, if they give before your arm bone does.   To be clear, I think a little restraint was called for, even though they were padded, as they definitely weren't going to break.

These ones I made actually had some weight to them, and made a very satisfying "thwap" when you tagged someone with them.  I used 1" diameter, schedule 80 PVC (the black pipe with a thicker wall), and (IIRC) the 1/2" thick insulation for padding.  I used liquid nails to keep the padding on, and bike handles for grips...  the entire set up cost maybe $20 for four sticks, each about 2 feet long.  You can get the entire set up at Lowe's.


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## wab25 (Feb 24, 2021)

Steve said:


> Couple of additional data points we really need, if we're going to assess how dangerous these two situations are.
> 
> First, where are all of those spider bites coming from?  I mean, are they all in the forest?  If not, and we're comparing apples to apples situations, we'd need to screen out all spider bites that do not occur in the forest (as well as the bear attacks not in the forest).  Do you have that?
> 
> ...


First... there are orders of magnitude differences here. Bear deaths are being measured in 100s per century, spider bites are being measured in 1000s per year and snake bites are being measured in millions per year.

Second... I was not the one that brought up finding sticks in the woods and whether you should use them to fight off the bear that is attacking you.

My point was that in the real world... the woods are a bit different than some expectations. They are not littered with hanbos, jos and bos. They are not full of bear on the hunt for people to prey upon. The real dangers in the woods are getting lost, exposure, hunger, falling... things like this. 

Whether you are in the woods or in the city... being prepared and bringing things with you is the best bet that you will be able to find it if needed. I do think that sticks are easier to find in the urban areas... as there are many things manufactured that resemble sticks. I like the game of find the improvised weapon... (I may have played that myself) Sure, you can rip the leg off a chair to use... if you can find a wooden chair, and if you have the time to rip it off... last time I tried to rip the leg off a chair, it took some doing... and a tool... and if I had the tool to get the leg off the chair off... I would use the tool for my stick / knife...

When you find the Hanbo Forest... let me know.


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## wab25 (Feb 24, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I think it's also interesting to practice throwing things at a person.


If you are in the woods... why not grab a handful of dirt to throw at the attackers face? Dirt you can find in the woods, and you should be able to get a reaction from most folks by throwing dirt in their face.


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## Steve (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> First... there are orders of magnitude differences here. Bear deaths are being measured in 100s per century, spider bites are being measured in 1000s per year and snake bites are being measured in millions per year.
> 
> Second... I was not the one that brought up finding sticks in the woods and whether you should use them to fight off the bear that is attacking you.
> 
> ...


If your point is about getting lost, exposure, hunger, falling, I'm right there with you.  I wish you'd started there instead of going on about spider attacks.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 24, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I think this may be the crux of the disagreement on this topic. I don't typically think of a stick as something I'd pick up in the middle of a confrontation. If it's not on me, I'm not stopping what I'm doing to get it. But if I have a chance to do so because a threat is imminent (snake blocking the only reasonable passage to where I need to get to), then I can go grab something.
> 
> From a self-defense perspective, the example I use most is someone who has a knife. If they are threatening (not attacking) from a few steps away, I can reach for possible weapons. If they are attacking (or closer), I can't spare the attention. That would apply whether in the woods or a store. I don't think it's a matter of "will you always" or even "will you mostly", but "which weapon is most likely to be handy". And the answer to that last, in my opinion, is some kind of stick.


I agree with the last part of that, which is that which weapon is most likely to be handy, is most likely a stick, or an improvised knife, depending on your setting. But that doesn't mean they are easy to come by, which was the argument proton was making in the OP.

As for the rest, I'd agree that if you are aware of some sort of attack you might have a chance to grab something; that goes along with the idea of preparing something. Most of the time though, the better option is to avoid whatever the threat is, rather than grabbing a stick. For your example of a snake blocking the way while hiking, the better option would be to make a little loop and look for a better way across, if the snake looks to be a dangerous snake. Grabbing a stick and trying to move it or attack it only increases the chance of a bite. It's only in specific, contrived situations (You're hiking with someone, someone you're with just got injured and needs help ASAP, and the only way for you to get back is through a bridge/small trail surrounded by cliff/etc. that has a snake on it) where you can recognize an imminent threat, while at the same time not having the option of avoiding the said threat. 

Granted, there are more likely situations, like photon's-a guy gets mugged, he gets out but his girlfriend/wife/friend is still there and needs help, but even then we're back to the situation of _if you prepare for an eventuality, you get to decide the tool you prepared with._


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## drop bear (Feb 24, 2021)




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## PhotonGuy (Feb 24, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I missed this initially.
> "do you train with weapons": I do.
> 
> "what kinds of weapons": Currently, I train primarily stick, machete, and knife (well-sort of currently. Haven't been in the gym for a bit, and the snow makes it difficult to train outside). I've also trained nunchuck, sai, bo staff, and a couple of different sword styles.
> ...


Alright, enjoyment is a common reason why people train with weapons, after all they're fun to train with. However, some people do train with weapons for the possibility of using them in self defense in which case sticks and knives would be the most practical. I train with weapons for that purpose and also because they help to develop coordination and also, as you point out, enjoyment. Chances are you aren't going to be carrying around a katana or a naginata. Training with katanas and naginatas could help you deal with home invaders if your house is broken into and you've got such weapons at home but they're not going to be much help at home when you're away from home. But as you said, there's a good chance to either have access to a knife or an improvised knife if you're not carrying one. Same thing with sticks, you could keep a tire iron or a baseball bat in your car. As it is

Of course if you are training with weapons for self defense as the main reason it would make sense to train with guns, that would be the most practical. However you also have to take into account if you can legally own and carry guns, guns tend to be more heavily regulated than other weapons.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

wab25 said:


> If you are in the woods... why not grab a handful of dirt to throw at the attackers face? Dirt you can find in the woods, and you should be able to get a reaction from most folks by throwing dirt in their face.


That would gain some seconds, perhaps. Unless they are wearing glasses, then it would at least probably get a blink. 

Of course, if what you grab is dead leaves, it’s much less likely to reach them.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I agree with the last part of that, which is that which weapon is most likely to be handy, is most likely a stick, or an improvised knife, depending on your setting. But that doesn't mean they are easy to come by, which was the argument proton was making in the OP.
> 
> As for the rest, I'd agree that if you are aware of some sort of attack you might have a chance to grab something; that goes along with the idea of preparing something. Most of the time though, the better option is to avoid whatever the threat is, rather than grabbing a stick. For your example of a snake blocking the way while hiking, the better option would be to make a little loop and look for a better way across, if the snake looks to be a dangerous snake. Grabbing a stick and trying to move it or attack it only increases the chance of a bite. It's only in specific, contrived situations (You're hiking with someone, someone you're with just got injured and needs help ASAP, and the only way for you to get back is through a bridge/small trail surrounded by cliff/etc. that has a snake on it) where you can recognize an imminent threat, while at the same time not having the option of avoiding the said threat.
> 
> Granted, there are more likely situations, like photon's-a guy gets mugged, he gets out but his girlfriend/wife/friend is still there and needs help, but even then we're back to the situation of _if you prepare for an eventuality, you get to decide the tool you prepared with._


I think part of the kerfuffle might just be a different idea of what “easy” is. It’s a relative term.


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## Steve (Feb 25, 2021)

A lighthearted aside:


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## frank raud (Feb 26, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> That would work. I keep a baseball bat in my car.



Awesome. Can you swing your baseball bat in the car? Assuming you are attacked in your car? Or is it in your trunk, making it useless if you're attacked in your car? What if you've parked in underground parking lot and are 4 blocks away? Do you ask your attacker to wait while you go retrieve your baseball bat?


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## frank raud (Feb 26, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Its better than nothing, and there are other types of sticks you can find besides fallen tree branches. Crowbars, baseball bats, lacrosse sticks, golf clubs, hockey sticks, broom and mop handles, umbrellas, tire irons, fireplace pokers, tennis racquets, you name it.


 When was the last time you were viciously attacked on a driving range or golf course? In my personal experience, when I have been attacked, it has been in a bar (no easy access to crowbars or tire irons), a parking lot( well ok, once was in a bar fight that spilled out into a parking lot and a tire iron was involved), or on the street( no mops, tennis racquets or fireplace pokers). Despite being Canadian, I don't play hockey, so rarely have access to a hockey stick.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 26, 2021)

frank raud said:


> When was the last time you were viciously attacked on a driving range or golf course? In my personal experience, when I have been attacked, it has been in a bar (no easy access to crowbars or tire irons), a parking lot( well ok, once was in a bar fight that spilled out into a parking lot and a tire iron was involved), or on the street( no mops, tennis racquets or fireplace pokers). Despite being Canadian, I don't play hockey, so rarely have access to a hockey stick.


This doesn't check out. Even if you don't play hockey yourself, it's my understanding that old hockey sticks are littered all across the streets in Canada.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 26, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This doesn't check out. Even if you don't play hockey yourself, it's my understanding that old hockey sticks are littered all across the streets in Canada.



Not to mention all the ones growing in the wild.


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## frank raud (Feb 26, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This doesn't check out. Even if you don't play hockey yourself, it's my understanding that old hockey sticks are littered all across the streets in Canada.


Much like the rumour about nicotine in Tim Hortons coffee, the old story of Canadian streets being littered with old hockey sticks is greatly exaggerated. Many are gathered up by itinerant stick collectors and turned into bedroom furniture so young Canadians can dream of being the next Wayne Gretsky.    Hockey Headboard | The Store Next Door Gift Shop


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## frank raud (Feb 26, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not to mention all the ones growing in the wild.


Taming a wild hockey stick is not to be taken lightly.


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## drop bear (Feb 26, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> That would gain some seconds, perhaps. Unless they are wearing glasses, then it would at least probably get a blink.
> 
> Of course, if what you grab is dead leaves, it’s much less likely to reach them.



Throw a bear at them. I hear they are quite dangerous.


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## drop bear (Feb 26, 2021)

frank raud said:


> When was the last time you were viciously attacked on a driving range or golf course? In my personal experience, when I have been attacked, it has been in a bar (no easy access to crowbars or tire irons), a parking lot( well ok, once was in a bar fight that spilled out into a parking lot and a tire iron was involved), or on the street( no mops, tennis racquets or fireplace pokers). Despite being Canadian, I don't play hockey, so rarely have access to a hockey stick.



Pool cues.
Video: Pool cues and chairs thrown as bar fight spills onto streets | Daily Mail Online


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## minn8325 (Feb 26, 2021)

I thought this post was about Minecraft.... sighhhh


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## Steve (Feb 26, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Throw a bear at them. I hear they are quite dangerous.


Not as dangerous as a spider, I hear. Though spiders are hard to throw. They're so light.


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## drop bear (Feb 26, 2021)

Steve said:


> Not as dangerous as a spider, I hear. Though spiders are hard to throw. They're so light.



I don't know. This one i found in my laundry had some mass to it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

frank raud said:


> Awesome. Can you swing your baseball bat in the car? Assuming you are attacked in your car? Or is it in your trunk, making it useless if you're attacked in your car? What if you've parked in underground parking lot and are 4 blocks away? Do you ask your attacker to wait while you go retrieve your baseball bat?


Responding in order:

There are other ways to use one than swinging, and those can be used in a car, though I'd argue any weapon inside a car is pretty hard to deploy usefully.
I've never understood that approach. If you have time to walk back and get it out, in a lot of cases, you should just leave.
A weapon in the car is generally for when you're in or near the car.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not to mention all the ones growing in the wild.


That's where field hockey comes from, isn't it? Just playing right there in the hockey field.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Throw a bear at them. I hear they are quite dangerous.


Or better yet, a handful of spiders.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

minn8325 said:


> I thought this post was about Minecraft.... sighhhh


Okay then. They're not so easy to come by in some modpacks, where they make you use that damned chopping block. Who's got time for that when you're being attacked???


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

drop bear said:


> I don't know. This one i found in my laundry had some mass to it.
> 
> View attachment 23669


Is there a shed skin in there, or did you forget how to count to two? I mean, the whisky is still full, so I can't blame that.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 27, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> Is there a shed skin in there, or did you forget how to count to two? I mean, the whisky is still full, so I can't blame that.


I believe that's shedded skin.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

frank raud said:


> Awesome. Can you swing your baseball bat in the car? Assuming you are attacked in your car?


I know how to use a baseball bat to fight with without swinging it, that's something you learn if you train in stick fighting, you learn how to thrust, jab, poke, etc. using a stick. Stick fighting isn't just swinging.



frank raud said:


> Or is it in your trunk, making it useless if you're attacked in your car? What if you've parked in underground parking lot and are 4 blocks away? Do you ask your attacker to wait while you go retrieve your baseball bat?


That's why I train in unarmed fighting first and foremost. But if Im able to access a weapon that would certainly help and sticks are usually one of the easiest weapons to access.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

frank raud said:


> When was the last time you were viciously attacked on a driving range or golf course? In my personal experience, when I have been attacked, it has been in a bar (no easy access to crowbars or tire irons),


Did the bar have pool tables as some bars do? If so you could grab a pool stick. 



frank raud said:


> a parking lot( well ok, once was in a bar fight that spilled out into a parking lot and a tire iron was involved), or on the street( no mops, tennis racquets or fireplace pokers).


Maybe in the parking lot and street where you've been attacked there was no stick like objects to use, aside from the tire iron you mentioned, but the point is that sticks are easier to find than most weapons. You're more likely to find a stick or something that can be used as a stick than a katana or naginata. You should of course be prepared to fight when you don't have any sticks or weapons around which is why I emphasize unarmed fighting as being the most important, but if we're talking about learning weapons I think the stick is a good weapon to learn because its easier to find than most other weapons.



frank raud said:


> Despite being Canadian, I don't play hockey, so rarely have access to a hockey stick.


Well if you're Canadian that's all the more reason why, in my opinion, you should take up martial arts.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This doesn't check out. Even if you don't play hockey yourself, it's my understanding that old hockey sticks are littered all across the streets in Canada.


I've been to Canada, I didn't see hockey sticks all over the streets.


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## drop bear (Feb 27, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> Is there a shed skin in there, or did you forget how to count to two? I mean, the whisky is still full, so I can't blame that.



It is a skin


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2021)

drop bear said:


> It is a skin


Okay, so you can count and I'm not seeing double.

Can we get back to arguing now?


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

drop bear said:


> I don't know. This one i found in my laundry had some mass to it.
> 
> View attachment 23669


You're from Australia, that's to be expected.


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## PhotonGuy (Mar 4, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Its possible to win the lottery as well.
> 
> Any stick you can find in nature that is strong enough to use as a weapon, will be big, heavy and not at all straight.


Even a rolled up newspaper can be used as a stick.


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## dvcochran (Mar 4, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Even a rolled up newspaper can be used as a stick.


Sure, newspapers are everywhere in the Forrest.


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## jobo (Mar 5, 2021)

PhotonGuy said:


> Even a rolled up newspaper can be used as a stick.


back in the day, news papers were a favoured weapon of the football hooligan,  folded and folded till you can fold no more they make an extremly effective weapon, less stick more a brick made out of paper


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