# McManus promoted to 5th Degree Black



## Red Blade (Feb 24, 2003)

> Sensei Sherwood then presented McManus with a dozen pink roses in celebration of her recent promotion to 5th degree black belt.



*I found this interesting seeing that she was promoted to her 2nd degree at the 2000 Michigan Summer Camp. What rank does this make Mr. Delaney? *


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## Guro Harold (Feb 24, 2003)

He is GM Delany!!!!


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *He is GM Delany!!!! *



Originally it was co-successor Shea and Delaney with no specific rank being awarded.  When the MOTTs were formed those who weren't already fifth, were brought up to that level.  Evidently, Jeff considers himself much higher than that now.  As far as an organizational promotion from all the new splinter factions, I have no problem with this being done.  I myself was promoted by my organization but followed a couple rules which it seems that some people chose not to look at.  

1) Not allowing anyone to skip degrees of black belt during a promotion.
2) A minimum of a three year or more wait for black belts fifth degree and higher.

There are other rules but there is no need to get into the details.  If this is what they choose to do in their organization, then that is their choice.  My feeling no matter what belt a person wears, their knowledge and ability, or lack thereof, will be apparent.  I wish them luck in what they do.  And look forward to seeing Lisa become our senior in the next couple of years.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 24, 2003)

I have never worked with Ms. McManus, so I cannot coment, other than I would like to have the chance to some day.

Just schedule conflicts when she was near my location and distance the rest of the time.


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## Cruentus (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Red Blade _
> *I found this interesting seeing that she was promoted to her 2nd degree at the 2000 Michigan Summer Camp. What rank does this make Mr. Delaney?  *



I wish I could say that I am suprised, but unfortunatily I am not.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 24, 2003)

Remember, she has to proove herself worthy of the rank.


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## Guro Harold (Feb 24, 2003)

She's already started that, she has some tapes out !!!!


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## Cruentus (Feb 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *She's already started that, she has some tapes out !!!! *



O.K.....here is my problem with martial arts in general. It is hard to keep up the standard when you have people promoting themselves more rapidly then what there skill shows, and then throwing it out there in the form of "a tape series," or something of the kind. The general public, hell even "martial artists" are too often unable to recognize what is quality and what isn't. It is very fusterating; there is no imperical way to prove ones skill anymore. It isn't until the unqualified get on the floor next to the qualified that people will be able to truely judge. When has Delenay, or McManus ever decided to get on the floor next to someone in Modern Arnis who might be more qualified then they? They won't do it because they don't want to be shown up.

We'll I just hope that people who decide to buy their tapes, or go to their seminars will at least make the effort to see other Modern Arnis players out there to make the comparison. 

Remember, Ashada Kim and Count Dantes were able to make some dough selling merchandise, so I'm sure McManus and Delenay will do the same selling there product. This doesn't make any of them qualified, however.

But, hey, some people liked to be lied to, and like to live in fantasy land. Too many "martial artists" are lost in fantasy. Well, there's nothing any of us can do about that. Also remember this saying: You can be the master of your own universe if you never leave your backyard.

I wish Mr. Delenay and Mrs. McManus on their quest for recognition as masters of the modern arnis unicerse.


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## Guro Harold (Feb 25, 2003)

Ms. McManus got 12 pink roses for her promotion, on the true opposite side of the spectrum, what did you guys do for Datu Tim?


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## Cruentus (Feb 25, 2003)

Lisa's promotion and Tim's aren't even in the same catagory, so don't go there. Tim hasn't been promoted in over 4 years, and this was decided on by a board within the WMAA organization, with the help and council of other GM and high ranks outside of the organization. There was an overwhelming response within the modern arnis community to want to promote Tim, so that is what the WMAA did. Tim had little to do with the decision making process when it came to his promotion; he just had to either accept or decline.

Lisa has gone from 2nd degree to 5th in a little over 2 years. This fact alone doesn't even put her promotions in the same catagory as Tims. Now although I don't know how she was promoted, I can say safely that these promotions are probably not supported by the modern arnis community as a whole.

As for Flowers, come on! Well I was going to send him some, but then I realized that I'm not really that gay (all joking aside).     

Seriously, though, Tim has recieved probably a ton of e-mails and phone calls in congrad's for his accomplishments. These congrats aren't overwith either; we still have some events coming up where some other forms of recognition might be in order. I don't need to write an internet article about TIm getting a dozen roses to prove anything, however, unlike some.

Bottom line: if you want to support Delenay and McManus, fine. If you think that their behavior is appropriate, then by all means support them. If you and others want to be that irresponsable, then I guess that is your call. Just so long as you fully understand
why other people choose not to support them, or their actions. 

I can't really say much else, because you'll only hear what you want anyways, so I think that this conversation is over.


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## Guro Harold (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Paul,

Bear in mind that I prefixed my joke with "on the true opposite side of the spectrum" !!!

Its no doubt that Datu Tim has put his time in (since the 80's).  I was wondering what you guys did for him or if you guys pulled any stunts, being in mind that GM Presas could not do the caning.

Peace,

Palusut


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> * I was wondering what you guys did for him or if you guys pulled any stunts, being in mind that GM Presas could not do the caning.
> 
> Peace,
> ...



Isn't dealing with Paul enough?


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## Cruentus (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *Isn't dealing with Paul enough? *



Hey, watch it buddy! That's it, I'm coming over to live with you and Janice for the week for that comment. It'll give Kate a break, anyways.:rofl: 

Palusut: It sounds like I'm getting all bent out a shape for nothing. I think I probably misunderstood you a little. Sorry dude! :armed:


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## ace (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *He is GM Delany!!!! *





:lol:


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## ace (Feb 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *Ms. McManus got 12 pink roses for her promotion, on the true opposite side of the spectrum, what did you guys do for Datu Tim? *



Just a thought.


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## Tapps (Feb 26, 2003)

> Hey, watch it buddy! That's it, I'm coming over to live with you and Janice for the week for that comment. It'll give Kate a break, anyways



Don't expect Roses from Thor !


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tapps _
> *Don't expect Roses from Thor ! *



Tapps,

That is true! and If Paul Brought Roses for Thor, Loki would be jealous!  and then I would not want to be in between them.  

:rofl:


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## Tapps (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *Ms. McManus got 12 pink roses for her promotion, on the true opposite side of the spectrum, what did you guys do for Datu Tim? *



I gave him a big thumbs up. I plan to crack him in the head next time we spar (I can usually get 1 good shot before I become a punching bag).

I think, for me, that's the difference. I've seen Jeff and Lisa move at seminars. I've seen Tim move and I've felt his skill. I KNOW he deserves his rank.

Just curious if anyone has trained and or spared with Lisa or the "Grandmaster" what are your opinions:


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## arnisador (Feb 26, 2003)

Instead of a dozen roses, let's get him a dozen chicken wings. If we all chip in we might be able to cover the cost.

What other organizations do for promotions is their business.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Instead of a dozen roses, let's get him a dozen chicken wings. If we all chip in we might be able to cover the cost.
> 
> What other organizations do for promotions is their business. *



I want a bucket with blue cheese!


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## ace (Feb 26, 2003)

*I want a bucket with blue cheese! *[/QUOTE] 

BBQ,Hot,Medium or Mild??????


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Feb 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *I want a bucket with blue cheese! *


* 

BBQ,Hot,Medium or Mild?????? *[/QUOTE] 

BBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DoctorB (Feb 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *O.K.....here is my problem with martial arts in general. It is hard to keep up the standard when you have people promoting themselves more rapidly then what there skill shows, and then throwing it out there in the form of "a tape series," or something of the kind. The general public, hell even "martial artists" are too often unable to recognize what is quality and what isn't. It is very fusterating; there is no imperical way to prove ones skill anymore. It isn't until the unqualified get on the floor next to the qualified that people will be able to truely judge. When has Delenay, or McManus ever decided to get on the floor next to someone in Modern Arnis who might be more qualified then they? They won't do it because they don't want to be shown up.
> 
> We'll I just hope that people who decide to buy their tapes, or go to their seminars will at least make the effort to see other Modern Arnis players out there to make the comparison.
> ...



This is one of the major reasons why I propsed and have worked to establish the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium.  Let's bring people together, face to face, so that we can talk about standards, compare and contrast individual stylistic movements.  And I submit that **there is** an emperical way to prove ones Modern Arnis skills.  Since we are going to have eleven (11) Modern Arnis instructors taking the floor during the combined 51 hours of training at the Symposium, everyone in attendance will have the opportunity to do some serious side by side comparisons.  Then you can judge for yourselves who has the greater Modern Arnis skill levels from those who are not as skilled.

"It isn't until the unqualified get on the floor next to the qualified that people will be able to truely judge."  You are correct in so far as the method you have proposed is a very straight forward and direct way to make some judgements about relative skill levels.  However, I submit that there is yet another, less direct method and it involves video tapes.  Compare people via the tapes that they have produced.  Look at their movement, ask yourself if what theyare showing is consistant with movment and ideas that you have seen before.  Almost everyone using this forum should have some experience with Modern Arnis and you can ask yourself if what is being presented on tape matches up to what you have seen from other Modern Arnis instructors?

One of the reasons that I am not pushing any rank details in my announcements is because I, along with numerous others, have stated that Professor was never consistant in how or why he ranked people in Modern Arnis.  This Symposium is THE FIRST MAJOR EVENT where we all can see for ourselves some of the leading people within the art of Modern Arnis at a single event!!!  And haven't I been writing that statement repeatedly for nearly a year?

The key words are "some of the leading people", plus those words that I posted in the January description of the Symposium, "an exchange of ideas"  "an opprtunity to meet and talk face to face" and it could also be a chance for us to come together to discuss the "standards crisis".

Back in November 2002, Dieter Knuttel, started a thread on the promotions question, which is also a "standards question".  I wrote the following statements on 11-20 2002:

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

:Let me be blunt and very clear with regard to this matter having the system leader declare him/her self as the GM, lacks credibility. Having the organizations's students, even those holding blackbelts, name someone as the organizational GM, also lacks credibility, because these people are beholding to the leader for their promotions, hence the concept of the "enlightened 
:vested interest".

:Maybe this ought to be a discussion topic at the 2003
Symposium. Perhaps this ought to become a seperate thread: 

      "How should the Modern Arnis Community handle the
       recognition of leadership titles after July 2003?" 

lease understand that there is a considerable problem
confronting those who would become the GM's - very specifily Professor Presas, himself created and abandoned numerous titles over the course of his career in the USA alone and he did not encourage or allow a formal IMAF organizational structure to be developed during his lifetime; therefore, there was no
objective criteria developed to deteremine what skills equated to what rank level or title. All of the promotions and tiltles awarded were in the final analysis based on the SUBJECTIVE OPINION of Professor Remy Presas, hence the most pressing question  
:becomes, which titles are still valid and why'?

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

NO ONE responded to those statements, hence I believe that the door has been left WIDE OPEN for rank promotion abuses, but that is my subjective opinion.  I also wrote in that same post:

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +                                                      

:One way out of this morass is to attend the 2003         Symposium and judge for yourself, who has the technical skills, knowledge and ability to actually do the art of Modern Arnis. Let ability determine rank.  Professor Presas, laid out a number of possible avenues to follow, some need more development         than others, but we will not know who can really do the art if  
:we all 'hide in our small ponds', being the "big fish"!

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Personally, I am looking forward to meeting and training with David Ng, Richard Roy,  Bruce Chiu and Dieter Knuttel, because I have never had the opportunity to meet/train with them.  I am also looking forward to working again with the other Symosium instructors, whom I have worked with before this upcoming event.  I am disappointed that one person has dropped out of the instructor group, because I was looking forward to his presentations.  The Symposium will be a perfect place for us to meet and discuss the direction that we indiviually would like to see Modern Arnis move in.  We can find out if there are some common ideas that we can agree on and then put together plans to impliment those ideas.

The Symposium is one of the best means that is currently available to us to  begin dialogues, face to face, beyond organizational affiliations since several organizations of Modern Arnis people will be represented.  There is no prefered group at or organizing the Symposium.  It is an **Open to All** event and we are going to discover "the art within the Modern Arnis art" at this Symposium.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Emptyglass (Feb 27, 2003)

Dr. Barber:

I agree 100%. The Symposium will be a chnace to show everyone what you know, whether you are training actively or whether you are simply "training mentally" and whether you are truthfully a good student/instructor. The lineup of instructors who have agreed to come so far is top-notch. I've trained with some of them and have heard good things about others. Some I've never heard of at all, but I'm looking forward to seeing how they have adapted Modern Arnis to their own ideas.

My personal opinion of the entire ranking situation is this, and anyone who wants to discuss these ideas via e-mail or during the symposium is more than welcome to drop me a line at Skavenslave@Netscape.net:

Now that Professor Presas has sadly passed away and the there has been no clear appointee (IMHO) to whom he intended to (honestly) replace him as the figurehead and guiding force of the FMA called Modern Arnis, I would have to say that the lineage and progresson of and in the system is ended.

Does that mean that everyone who has ever learned from him and has progressed into a spectacular Arnisador is now nothing? Of course not! That is a ludicrous statement. If you gained rank in Modern Arnis under Professor Remy Presas, whether you deserved it or not, that is the rank you gained and I think that as far as Modern Arnis is concerned under Remy A. Presas that is the rank that you will have forever.

Can you now improve and become a better escrimador through years of hard practice, thought, teaching and research. Hell, yes. You'd better or you'd better not try to claim to someone who does put in the sweat, blood and tears and that you deserve an equal amount of respect because you haven't practiced in 10 years but have a certificate that says you're Lakan Apat or whatever.

I've been taught to respect what I am shown, not what someone claims. The people I've had the privilige to train with and under in the past who are coming to the Symposium (Dr. Jerome Barber, Punong-Guro Tom Bolden, Datu Tim Hartman) have continued to train and learn and show that they are respecting what the Professor taught them by continuing to express, demonstrate and honor the art which was given and entrusted to them. To do less is shameful at the least.

Am I disappointed that I will never get the chance to gain another certificate from the Professor higher than Lakan Isa. Yep, but those are the breaks. The man has died and there's no getting around it. Anyone who wants to call themselves Grandmaster/Successor of Modern Arnis will get nothing more than a polite shake of the head from me unless they can show me some written, documented or filmed proof of such and considering the Professor died of brain cancer, telling me it's so just isn't good enough to get my belief and respect. I'm not that easy and most people aren't honest enough for that. To me, it is nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell tapes, swell egos, run a school and most definitely MAKE MONEY! They may be a great practicioner, but they are lying to themselves and anyone who chooses to believe them in my opinion.

That's my opinion and like *******s everyone has them. However, I always like to refer to something writer Harlan Ellison said (and I'm paraphrasing):

"Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one."
"However, unless you've put some thought into that opinion and can defend it, that doesn't mean you have the right to ram it down the throat of everyone around you just because having one is your "right".

I hope to talk to lots of folks about this post at the Symposium (hopefully over some beers ).

Thanks,

Richard Curren
Proud to be a Filipino Martial Arts student of Dr. Jerome Barber and others.


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## Red Blade (Feb 27, 2003)

*Does EVERY modern arnis post have to turn into an ad for the symposium?*

:cuss:


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## Red Blade (Feb 27, 2003)

*Palusut, 
 your pm mail box is full.*


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## Guro Harold (Feb 27, 2003)

Sorry Red Blade,

Try now.

Palusut


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## Emptyglass (Feb 27, 2003)

Red Blade:

Heh! Less of an ad and more of a frustrated and disappointed statement from someone who's been practicing in Modern Arnis since the early-mid 80's about what some instructors are doing to make a buck nowadays.

Thanks,

Rich Curren


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## Emptyglass (Feb 27, 2003)

Red Blade:

PS: Come to the Sympoisum, it's going to be a blast! (That was an ad.)

Regards,

Rich Curren


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## norshadow1 (Feb 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Red Blade _
> *Does EVERY modern arnis post have to turn into an ad for the symposium?
> 
> :cuss: *



Nope, it doesn't, however since a lot of thought and effort are going into this premier event, it ought to be mentioned on a regular basis.  Since people are bitching and moaning about the McManus promotion and the symposium was pulled together to deal with some of these grand and bogus types of claims, the symposium ought to have the support of everyone who is opposed to what the McManus promotion stands for; I for one believe that her promotion from 2nd to 5th stinks to high heaven, but is she going to show up at the symposium?  Not on your life!

I have read through a number of posts by Dr. Barber and I have seen his very carefully crafted observations and recountings of Modern Arnis history go unanswered.  Why?  

I am looking forward to seing some of you folks at the Symposium because I want to see if your understanding of Modern Arnis matches your ability to post on this forum.  Like Richard, I have attended seminars and camps with PG Bolden, Datu Hartman and Dr. Barber.  But I also attended events with Master Bram Frank, Master Richard Roy and Guro D. Muhammad.  All of these men were very good to excellent.  I also have seen and worked with Ms. McManus and Mr. Delaney.  They have made a wise decision by declining to accept the invitations to participante in the Symposium.    

Does every Modern Arnis post have to refer to the Symposium?  No!  But this is the going to be the seminal event of 2003 and I am aware of several FMA people from outside of Mdern Arnis who will be there.  This program is going to bigger and more important than most of you realize right now.

Lamont


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *Nope, it doesn't, however since a lot of thought and effort are going into this premier event, it ought to be mentioned on a regular basis.  Since people are bitching and moaning about the McManus promotion and the symposium was pulled together to deal with some of these grand and bogus types of claims, the symposium ought to have the support of everyone who is opposed to what the McManus promotion stands for; I for one believe that her promotion from 2nd to 5th stinks to high heaven, but is she going to show up at the symposium?  Not on your life!
> 
> I have read through a number of posts by Dr. Barber and I have seen his very carefully crafted observations and recountings of Modern Arnis history go unanswered.  Why?
> ...




Yes I realize it will be important, and plan on being there. As I said so last summer. I would like to meet new people at this event. Yet it is sad that some of those I would liked to have seen or worked with are not going to be there now.

The problem that I see is that if it appears that no one is going and it is desperate advertising this will make even more peopel think about not going. The counter effect we are looking for. If it is once in a while and an update is made, or just a simple reminder, then this to me seems to be good. Maybe Red Blade and others were jsut concerned about a back lash.

Personally, I think Dr B is trying his best to makes things work. And I thank him for that. Yet, if every thread and or post is nothing more about how great this is going to be, it could be misleading.

No disrespect to anyone, yet I can see both sides and their concerns.
:asian:


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## Emptyglass (Feb 28, 2003)

Hi Rich:

Desperate? I don't think so. Enthusiastic, most definitely. I find it very exciting that we will have a great assembly of really top-notch instructors there. Additionally, many of the high-profile (ie: those who do a lot of magazine advertisements) Modern Arnis instructors and their associates have made it clear that they don't intend to attend the event.

This being said, some people who are sitting on the fence about coming to the event and who may not have been exposed to the instructors who are coming may think that it's not worth coming to. Therefore, letting folks know that the event will be exciting and interesting and worthwhile is in the best interest of everyone who is going (like me!) as I would like to see the greatest representation of different Arnisadors there as possible.

I think lots of people talked a good game about coming to the event and now that the time has come to throw your cash in the pot, they might be reconsidering hasty words. I hope this isn't true. Having worked with Punong-Guro Tom Bolden in the past, a three-day intensive camp of 
Panci-Panci Escrima/CHA-3 Kenpo would be worth the cost of admission to me. Add in Guro Bram Frank (and his excellent Gunting Knife), Rocky Paswik and his Balintawak skills and the inimitable (I think that's a word) Dr. Barber himself and you've got a bargain for $195.00. And you've got 9 other high-ranking instructors as well. Great, merciful crap! That's alot of Arnis. 

It will probably be worth it for the after-training beer sessions alone. Now this isn't an ad, and I'm not demonstrating at the event, but I am excited about going to it. It's going to be fun, it's going to be a chance to learn something new and for me it will be a chance to renew some old contacts and friendships and form some new ones in the world of the Filipino Martial Arts.

I've been around long enough in the art to know that if you're a good person/student and have contacts who are good people, it opens doors for you that sometimes would remain closed forever. This Symposium is a chance to make some of those connections in my opinion.

Thanks,

Richard Curren


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Emptyglass _
> *Hi Rich:
> 
> Desperate? I don't think so. Enthusiastic, most definitely. I find it very exciting that we will have a great assembly of really top-notch instructors there. Additionally, many of the high-profile (ie: those who do a lot of magazine advertisements) Modern Arnis instructors and their associates have made it clear that they don't intend to attend the event.
> ...




Richard,

I never meant to say it was not a bargain, not to say that one should not go.

GO Dang IT! I AM!

Just, I was trying to let everyone know how it might be perceived by some. Is all. Like I said up above, everyone who has posted here wants the event to succeed.  

Train Well


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## Emptyglass (Feb 28, 2003)

Rich:

I wasn't doubting your reasons, just reinforcing my own thoughts on the matter which might have been unclear those on the list (or lurking on the list) who might not know where I'm coming from (philosophically that is).


Thanks,

Rich


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## Cruentus (Feb 28, 2003)

Enthusiasm.....Good! 

OverKill......BAAAAAD  

I want to see the event successful too. So, I want you guys to be careful not to turn every thread into an ad. I'm just afraid that it'll turn people off if they feel that something is being rammed down there throat. 

Just looking out for the best interest of the event, is all!


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## Emptyglass (Feb 28, 2003)

Paul:

<Shrug> Squeaky wheel gets the grease. If an internet forum posting (for or against the Symposium) is enough to make someone change their mind about  going to the thing, they probably wouldn't like it too much anyway.

The people instructing at the seminar are leaders and thinkers who are adapting Modern Arnis to their own personalities and styles of teaching now that the Professor is gone. None of them (to my knowledge) are claiming to be replacements, successors or anything other than students of the Grand Master.

Hopefully the people who come will be just as open-minded to new ideas and different teaching styles. This being said, I'm done for now unless someone else has something to add which tempts me to respond. If this whole discussion was boring or repetitive for some, those are the breaks, I'm in America and this is the internet where anything can (and often is regardless of consequences) be said.

My personal message box is empty so if anyone wants to continue this discussion privately, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks,

Richard Curren


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## DoctorB (Feb 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Yes I realize it will be important, and plan on being there. As I said so last summer. I would like to meet new people at this event. Yet it is sad that some of those I would liked to have seen or worked with are not going to be there now.
> 
> The problem that I see is that if it appears that no one is going and it is desperate advertising this will make even more people think about not going. The counter effect we are looking for. If it is once in a while and an update is made, or just a simple reminder, then this to me seems to be good. Maybe Red Blade and others were jsut concerned about a back lash.
> ...



First and formost, I do not understand where this notion of "desperate" is coming from!  I believe that the first mention that l made with regard to getting people signed to the Symposium was about two weeks ago and nothing since. ( BTW Rich, this is being written as a general comment and not specificly to you.)  And if advertising/posting a reminder, is an indication of deperation, then I truely feel sorry for all of the TV ads that I see reoccuring within same one to two hour period on TV!!

If there is going to be a counter-effect then so be it.  As an update, there are ten (10) people are signed on as of this afternoon (1pm, est).  A group of 8 from the west coast (and I do recall that we were told that it is too far and expensive to travel from the west coast to Buffalo.... hmmm...) and two individuals.  

The only other update that I can confirm is that one instructor has publicly withdrawn, due to a family vacation commitment with travel plans to the western portion of the country, is how he phrased it, I believe.  I replied to that posting and I am truely sorry that he will not be at the Symposium.  I was looking forward working with him and discussing some things face to face.

Maybe I am too close to the business of organizing the Symposium and maybe I am guilty of seeing this as a great event because it will be the first time that a significant group of Modern Arnis senior instructors have come together in one place for one event since the death of Professor.  Maybe I am too excited about the people who will be presenting because I have worked closely several of them in the past and I really want to see the others.  Hell, maybe I am just too committed to making a positive comtribution to the art that I have enjoyed for the past 22 years.  

Let me give everyone a tip, a heads-up, some advance notice.
I am waiting for confirmation that at least on custom knife maker and guild member will be at the Symposium selling his products.
I got a confirmation, last night that a custom craftsman will be making wooden training blades, the Aetas Bolo, which hails from Negros, the home island of the late Professor.  When I showed Professor replica training blade in 1991, he was thrilled that I had done the research, found the bolo and that I was using it as part of my training program.  We will have these bolos available at the Symposium.   Remember that Modern Arnis is at it's core, a blade art! 

The Symposium is designed to be an open ended exchange of ideas, training methodologies, a meeting place and discussion forum about the future directions that Modern Arnis could be going in.  I have no intention or need to discuss who is not there, who is not going to be there or why they have chosen not to attend - that is their business.   I am well aware of what Lamont wrote and I will have no comment on what he stated as his opinion.  He was not and is not authorized to speak for me or my group.  I will say this, both Mr. Delaney and Ms. McManus, were gracious and respectful enough to respond to their invitations to participate and they declined.  Others, were not as considerate.

I happen to be quite passionate about the full implications that are bound up within the Symposium concept.  If I am, for some people, too enthusiastic about the potential good that can come from this event, then that is way it is.  I will not constrain myself in order to sell tickets!!!

I was asked to provide early dates, the lowest possible prices and post the information as early as possible.  I have done all of that.  I asked, in return, that people make an early signal of commitment.  They did not have to send money, just give a verbal signal and only a couple of people responded.  If I was going to be desperate, then November & December 2002, plus Juanuary 2003, was the the time to get paniced and withdraw the plans.
If I were going to be desperate then I should have rushed the information on to the various forums the first week of January 2003.  But if people go back and read my posts for that month they will note that I missed my own deadlines for posting information.  Desperate, paniced, or nervous?  Not one bit.  Just doing my job to remind everyone that there is a lot of work that needs to be done and those who attend the Symposium will be able to get some of the work started through face to face meetings.  I have allowed a long period for people to send their deposits to reserve their places at the lowest prices.  If I were nervous and desperate, would I be doing that?  I don't think so!

I want to remind some of you who came into Modern Arnis, late, say in 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996 or 1998, that there is an entire generation of people who studied Modern Arnis and were ranked at Lakan Isa or above before you ever entered your first seminar with Professor.   This does not mean that what you did or learned is less important than what we did in the 1970's and 80's.  It simply means that there is a lot of information that is available to be shared from us to you and vice-versa.  I am very excited about that prospect - I enjoy the mere thought of that prospect - I am working toward making that prospect a reality on July 11, 12 and 13 in Buffalo, NY.  

We have had the excitement of having Professor Presas and Modern Arnis being taught in Buffalo, at least once every year and as many as three times in a single year, since 1980.  My instructor, Sifu Don Zanghi, was the very first Modern Arnis representative in WNY State.  We have had as many as 7 schools teaching Modern Arnis at one time in the 1980's.  Currently ther are 4 operational schools teaching the art.  Hosting the Symposium is really a joyful thing to do, in spite of the work that has to be done.

I am very excited about what we could accomplish with the Symposium, so I have a great deal of difficulty reading through the loud, noisy posts about what someone has done, in the negative, when we have the possibility of doing something very positive to help the art.

So, if you misread my positive and excitable expressions as posts of "impending doom and gloom", tinged with deperate fears that the Symposium will not be successful, I am sorry about that, but the error belongs to the reader, not the writer.

Think back just about two months ago, when someone wrote that they would not be attending the Syumposium, my reply was to wish them well at the seminar that they had planned for the same weekend.  I was quite serious and very sincere.  I never expected to have ALL of the senior Modern Arnis instructors at the Symposium.  Those who attend will have a good audience.  We will have those discussions, training sessions and exchanges of ideas.  Everyone will have something new added to their understanding about Modern Arnis.  I am looking forward to the event with a great deal pleasure.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Cruentus (Feb 28, 2003)

Can someone please explain this symposium thing to me one more time? What exactly is supposed to go on again?


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## Cruentus (Feb 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Can someone please explain this symposium thing to me one more time? What exactly is supposed to go on again? *



:rofl: :rofl: 

Hey guys.......I'm only kidding!


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## DoctorB (Feb 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Can someone please explain this symposium thing to me one more time? What exactly is supposed to go on again? *



Hello Paul, 

I understand that you were only kidding and that is fine with me because we could use some levity at this juncture.  I am sorry that some people are too sensitive about seeing and reading about the Symposium, but I really am looking forward to the event and meeting people, putting faces with screen names, discussing slight to exaggerated differences of opinions, sharing training ideas, showing people where and how I use the "Aetas Bolo", showing people the wooden replica, "Presas Jungle Bolo", if we can have one ready by July.  And you tongue in cheek question is also an opportunity to re-post something that might have been missed on another thread, which garnered only 8 or 9 replies. 

I wrote the following in January regarding the purpose of the Symposium:

Given the diverity and range of experience within Modern Arnis that are represented by the participants, it would seem that the only logical approach to the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium I, would be to add the following word and sub title:

"International"
"A Conceptual Martial Arts Exchange"

Breaking down the key words in the full event title:

"Symposium" - a meeting or social gathering at which ideas are freely exchanged.

"International" - because we have instructors coming from several countries AND there have a number of inquries from people in England, Scotland, Denmark, Germany and Isreal.

"A" - one type of a particular thing that has other variants; not the only one of its kind or type.

"Conceptual" - an abstract idea brought to a physical reality in time and space.

"Exchange" - to give or transfer one thing for another in return.

"I" - indicating that this event is the first, but not necessarilly the only "Symposium" that might be held in this area of interest.

Thus, the full event title:

*2003 Modern Arnis International Symposium I: A Conceptual Martial Arts Exchange*, actually denotes an event that is open to all who are interested. For our specific purposes, a social event or gathering at which the variations and interpretations of the martial art known as, Modern Arnis, as founded by the late Remy Amador Presas will be demonstarted, with subsequent discussions for the purpose of gaining a better understanding or greater insight into the art itself. 

This event is not intended to, nor will it offer the final and definative statement regarding Modern Arnis. It will be an attempt to understand how the art can be made to fit each individual practicioner.

It is my hope that everyone who atttends will leave their ranks, titles, organzaional affiliations and egos at the Symposium door. It is also my hope that everyone will go on the Symposium training floor with an "empty cup". Professor Presas, created a dynamic martial art, now, because of his passing, it is time to move forward and 'make the art for ourselves'.

Respectfully Submitted,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

------------------------------------------------------------------

That says it all in a very short post regarding intention.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 28, 2003)

DoctorB,

All is well and the event shall be good.

And as the old saying is 'The Check is in the Mail'  :rofl: 

See you there! :asian:


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## DoctorB (Mar 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *DoctorB,
> 
> All is well and the event shall be good.
> ...



Thanks for the reply and I am familiar with that saying, but I hardly watch the mail in anticipation ;-)

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## thekuntawman (Mar 2, 2003)

quote: Sensei Sherwood then presented McManus with a dozen pink roses in celebration of her recent promotion to 5th degree black belt.  


this is disgusting. whoever gave her this kind of rank deserve all the insults you guys throw to him.


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## Mickey (Mar 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by thekuntawman _
> *quote: Sensei Sherwood then presented McManus with a dozen pink roses in celebration of her recent promotion to 5th degree black belt.
> 
> 
> this is disgusting. whoever gave her this kind of rank deserve all the insults you guys throw to him. *




Sir this is in direct contradiction to your thread on respect.

I am confused


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 6, 2003)

Now that Lisa McManus has gotten her 5th Degre, numerically what rank is Jeff Delaney?  His last number rank from RP was 5th Degree as well.  I know he now claims GM status.  Is is that or the original designation of Master of Tapi-Tapi which supercedes numerical rank or gives him a higher _number_ ?
Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Mar 6, 2003)

all very good questions, indeed.


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## DoctorB (Mar 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *Now that Lisa McManus has gotten her 5th Degre, numerically what rank is Jeff Delaney?  His last number rank from RP was 5th Degree as well.  I know he now claims GM status.  Is is that or the original designation of Master of Tapi-Tapi which supercedes numerical rank or gives him a higher number ?
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson *



It's all a very big mystery to me, Dan.   BTW, did I miss this bit of information somewhere, but I would like to know who promoted her to 5th as well as when and where did it happen.  I'm just curious.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Dieter (Mar 7, 2003)

Dr. Jerome Barber:



> BTW, did I miss this bit of information somewhere, but I would like to know who promoted her to 5th as well as when and where did it happen. I'm just curious.



From the Delaney homepage:



> San Antonio, Texas hosted Grandmaster Jeffrey Delaney for the 3rd annual Modern Arnis winter Training Camp (7th to 9th of February 2003)
> 
> .... Sunday morning Grandmaster Delaney presented more tapi-tapi and Filipino Dumog with the assistance of Sifu Cordova and Guro Brown. After lunch the traditional Modern Arnis "celebration of knowledge" was officiated by the Grandmaster. Following that event, Grandmaster Delaney announced the appointment of Guro Chester Brown from Albuquerque, New Mexico, to the IMAF Board of Directors. Guro Brown will be the fourth member of the board and the Spiritual Director. This position was created to enhance the organization and insure that "the art serves the students." Grandmaster Delaney also announced the promotions of: Guro Brown to Lakan Dalawa, 2nd degree black belt; Sifu Edgar Cordova to Lakan Apat, 4th degree black belt; Lisa McManus to Lakan Lima, 5th degree black belt. Grandmaster Delaney stated that these promotions were granted on the basis of skill, effort, dedication, loyalty and leadership abilities. These promotions were unanimously approved by the board and seconded by Shihan Dan Strickler, a senior member of the black belt team.




Regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel


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## DoctorB (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> *Dr. Jerome Barber:
> 
> From the Delaney homepage:
> ...



Thanks for the info, Dieter, though it may pain Red Blade when I write this, I'm looking for seeing in Buffalo at the Symposium.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Dieter (Mar 7, 2003)

Hi Jerome,



> Thanks for the info, Dieter, though it may pain Red Blade when I write this, I'm looking for seeing in Buffalo at the Symposium.



I have to admit I miss the point. 
"It may pain Reb Blade" is not a saying that I am familiar with. ?

BTW, I am also looking forward seeing you and all the others at the symposium. 
The tickets for me and my partner Michael  are booked, I will be there.

Regards


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## Mickey (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *Now that Lisa McManus has gotten her 5th Degre, numerically what rank is Jeff Delaney?  His last number rank from RP was 5th Degree as well.  I know he now claims GM status.  Is is that or the original designation of Master of Tapi-Tapi which supercedes numerical rank or gives him a higher number ?
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson *




Gee Mr Anderson,

If I was 5th degree and then promoted someone to 5th degree would that not make myself 6th degree? For I would obviously have to have the talents and skills of a 6th degree to promote a 5th degree, correct?

Just my sorry opinion of the state of *'Affairs'*

Mick :asian:


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## norshadow1 (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mickey _
> *Gee Mr Anderson,
> 
> If I was 5th degree and then promoted someone to 5th degree would that not make myself 6th degree? For I would obviously have to have the talents and skills of a 6th degree to promote a 5th degree, correct?
> ...



OH Boy, Mick, I am certinly going to leave that last word you posted ALONE; however your question as to your rank under
the circumstances listed in your post has some very profound implications... what if the converse were true?

Lamont


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## Cruentus (Mar 7, 2003)

They have a spiritual director now ("Guro Brown").

I'm just waiting in anticipation for what they will come up with next. No Touch Knockouts? Perhaps another Jonestown Massacre?


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## Mickey (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by norshadow1 _
> *OH Boy, Mick, I am certinly going to leave that last word you posted ALONE; however your question as to your rank under
> the circumstances listed in your post has some very profound implications... what if the converse were true?
> 
> Lamont *




I apologize Lamont for I do not understand your comment about and choice of words. I admit to being out of the loop on these issues, so please take my word choice to mean the state of the business then. I did not mean to imply anything.  

The Converse, being that the 5th degree promotes themselves, and then promotes others. Ok, same result.


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## Guro Harold (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *They have a spiritual director now ("Guro Brown").
> 
> I'm just waiting in anticipation for what they will come up with next. No Touch Knockouts? Perhaps another Jonestown Massacre?
> ...



Paul, do you know Guro Brown or any negative behaviors attributed to him?  If not, be careful, he could be an innocent.

I don't know either Mr. Cordova or Mr. Brown, but, both Mr. Cordova and Mr. Brown are reaching out to the native-american populations.  Mr. Cordova is also hosting MARPPIO.

Palusut


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## Cruentus (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *Paul, do you know Guro Brown or any negative behaviors attributed to him?  If not, be careful, he could be an innocent.
> 
> I don't know either Mr. Cordova or Mr. Brown, but, both Mr. Cordova and Mr. Brown are reaching out to the native-american populations.  Mr. Cordova is also hosting MARPPIO.
> ...



True...I don't know know Mr. Cordova or Mr. Brown....I don't mean them any ill will in their work, whatever that might be.

My laughable sarcasm was more directed at the P.R. move of electing a spiritual director by Deleneys organization. One must admit that this is sort of funny, no matter what way you look at it.


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## dearnis.com (Mar 7, 2003)

Chester Brown is a really nice guy and a decent arnis player.  He is also very involved in the religious aspects of his culture as a pratitioner and teacher.  
A highlight, for me, of a camp a few years past was having Chester explain various aspects of the Navajo belief system and culture to me. 
Chad


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> *Chester Brown is a really nice guy and a decent arnis player.  He is also very involved in the religious aspects of his culture as a pratitioner and teacher.
> A highlight, for me, of a camp a few years past was having Chester explain various aspects of the Navajo belief system and culture to me.
> Chad *



Chad,

This sounds like fun to me. I would like to have heard this history also.

If you have the time to e-mail me some tid bits I would be very happy.  

Thanks


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## Emptyglass (Mar 10, 2003)

Dan:

That's an interesting question. I'd like to hear the answer to that one as well.

Regards,

Rich Curren


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Emptyglass _
> *Dan:
> 
> That's an interesting question. I'd like to hear the answer to that one as well.
> ...




Well, does any one have an answer to Dan's Questions? or 
for that matter the converse of Mickey's statment?

:asian:


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## jaybacca72 (Mar 16, 2003)

that's like saying if i'm a 4th in kenpo and a 2nd in arnis(soon)then that would make me a 6th right?WRONG
later
jay:asian:


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## arnisador (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jaybacca72 _
> *that's like saying if i'm a 4th in kenpo and a 2nd in arnis(soon)then that would make me a 6th right?WRONG
> later*



I wonder what I can get for all my brown belts and green belts over the years? I may be a grandmaster and not even know it!


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *I wonder what I can get for all my brown belts and green belts over the years? I may be a grandmaster and not even know it! *




Well Arnisador, you have much mre rank than one GM (* **** *) I can think of and mention. :asian:


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 17, 2003)

I just got back from teaching a seminar with Anding De Leon in Dallas. I had a great time and picked up some new stuff to boot. I was looking around Guro De Leon's school and saw some pictures from the 94 Dallas Modern Arnis Camp. In the pics I saw I saw Jeff Delaney, no uniform or belt. I then saw a picture of the Modern Arnis black belts who attended, Jeff was not in them. So I asked Guro Anding why Jeff was missing from the picture. He told me that it was Jeff's first Modern Arnis event.

Started 94 and became GM in 2001. Sound fishy? You be the judge.


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## DoctorB (Mar 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *I just got back from teaching a seminar with Anding De Leon in Dallas. I had a great time and picked up some new stuff to boot. I was looking around Guro De Leon's school and saw some pictures from the 94 Dallas Modern Arnis Camp. In the pics I saw I saw Jeff Delaney, no uniform or belt. I then saw a picture of the Modern Arnis black belts who attended, Jeff was not in them. So I asked Guro Anding why Jeff was missing from the picture. He told me that it was Jeff's first Modern Arnis event.
> 
> Started 94 and became GM in 2001. Sound fishy? You be the judge. *



Now that does present a problem doesn't it?
Maybe.... no, I don't dare say it....  but then again I could mention something else.... no, that would lead me back to what I didn't want to say earlier...  so I gues I will just have to let the fishy sound pass me by and just listen to that bright earful of sunlight, this fine Spring Day in Buffalo... 

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## ace (Feb 16, 2005)

How old is this post. Casuse it seem to have aged fast
now that there is a new promotion???????????????????


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## ace (Feb 16, 2005)

Red Blade said:
			
		

> *I found this interesting seeing that she was promoted to her 2nd degree at the 2000 Michigan Summer Camp. What rank does this make Mr. Delaney? *


.


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