# New Infraction System



## Bob Hubbard

In an attempt to better manage things, we are experimenting with a rules-infraction system.  We are often asked "which post" and "why". This system will send you a note indicating which rules and which post are in question. The system also weights each infraction with points.

If you 'earn' 20 points, your account is suspended until the points expire.
If you somehow earn 100 points, your account is banned.

Most points expire after a certain period of time, ranging from a week to a few months.

A sample of the setup is below:
1 point / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 1st Offense
2 points / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 2nd Offense
4 points / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 3rd Offense
1 point / 1 week: Sniping
1 point / 1 week: Insulted Other Member(s)
1 point / 1 week: Rude Post
1 point / 1 week: Profanity Filter Violation
2 points / Never: Trolling
100 Points / Never: Challenge Post

Right now, infractions are only being issued after an issue is discussed among the staff, and only senior staff can issue them.

Any questions on the system, please ask.


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## Mustafa

What can sniping be defined as?


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## exile

Mustafa said:


> What can sniping be defined as?



Yes, I was wondering about that... random personal potshots at other people? That seems to be covered already by the rest of the list... tried googling on it to see if, like `trolling', it has some special cyberspace sense, but kept getting links to sharpshooting topics etc.


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## Bob Hubbard

Loosely defined, sniping are those little subtle shots people take at each other.


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## exile

Bob Hubbard said:


> Loosely defined, sniping are those little subtle shots people take at each other.



OK... I _think_ I have an idea of what this is about... less overt than what comes under the heading of rudeness or insult, but still mean-spirited, something like that...


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## exile

PS What is the state of things in Buffalo now---any major improvement? I hope our weather down here isn't an indication that the Lakes are getting hit with more snow...


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## CoryKS

Does this mean that the moderators are going on a snipe hunt?


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## Bob Hubbard

Cleanup crews have reached my street, but theres still 200,000 without heat or power. They're hopeful to have things up by the weekend.


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## Bob Hubbard

CoryKS said:


> Does this mean that the moderators are going on a snipe hunt?


Nope.  We prefer pheasant.


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## Flying Crane

Bob Hubbard said:


> Nope. We prefer pheasant.


 
but snipe's good eatin', especially when caught in the woods with a burlap sack under a full moon at midnight...


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## SFC JeffJ

Flying Crane said:


> but snipe's good eatin', especially when caught in the woods with a burlap sack under a full moon at midnight...


Uh oh, I think Michael is having summer camp flashbacks!


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## Flying Crane

JeffJ said:


> Uh oh, I think Michael is having summer camp flashbacks!


 
Never have I eaten so well!!


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## SFC JeffJ

In India, there is a bird called a Snipe.  Very fast and agile.  The guys who could shoot them ended up being called "Snipers".

Thus ends todays trivia moment.


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## Lisa

CoryKS said:


> Does this mean that the moderators are going on a snipe hunt?





Bob Hubbard said:


> Nope.  We prefer pheasant.



I dont' want pheasant we had that last week.  I want duck please.


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## arnisador

Good to know that going off-topic is not an anfraction! I could've been in trouble there.


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## shesulsa

CoryKS said:


> Does this mean that the moderators are going on a snipe hunt?


What, in your mind, is a "snipe hunt?"

Moderators are monitoring the forum always.  Some forums are granted a wee bit more leeway by nature of their intent and purpose.  However, sniping is not good form and is certainly not worthy of respect nor a sign of dignified, polite exchange.

Were you planning on asking for some edits?  :ultracool


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## CoryKS

Um, 'twas a joke.  You know, snipe hunt?


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## shesulsa

CoryKS said:


> Um, 'twas a joke.  You know, snipe hunt?


Um, ya ... I know ... but you're not the only one who asked ... and the thread started to drift (thanks, Arni) ... and I provided a little extra info ... and included a shaded smiley so you'd know I got the joke.  :ultracool:angel::ultracool


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## Bob Hubbard

I missed the joke. I need to practice more.
:sniper:


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## MBuzzy

Ok, I feel dumb, but can someone please define trolling and "challenge post" too?  

Personal shots at my intelligence will be accepted in this case


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## cdhall

MBuzzy said:


> Ok, I feel dumb, but can someone please define trolling and "challenge post" too?
> 
> Personal shots at my intelligence will be accepted in this case



I was going to ask the same things so I'll take 1/2 the shots fired at you.


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## Bob Hubbard

A challenge post is one where an individual "suggests" that they "meet" to "work it out", or flat out says something along the lines of "if I see you, I'll kick your ***.".  

Trolling is loosely defined as "deliberately provoking arguments on newsgroups or bulletin boards, with no other intent than to gain attention for the sake of attention." Basically a web troll is someone who is only here to cause problems. There are extensive discussions on them, their mannerisms and other characteristics floating around.  Wiki is one good source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


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## Drac

Bob Hubbard said:


> A challenge post is one where an individual "suggests" that they "meet" to "work it out", or flat out says something along the lines of "if I see you, I'll kick your ***."


 
A good rule...


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## Mustafa

arnisador said:


> Good to know that going off-topic is not an anfraction! I could've been in trouble there.


Right. But the things is NOT saying anything else but the truth when one has the choise between is shortterm and longterm.
(The shortterm with orgins in fear of consequences of a rule if disobeyed provides a temporary security. Though not on the longterm.)



shesulsa said:


> What, in your mind, is a "snipe hunt?"
> 
> Moderators are monitoring the forum always. Some forums are granted a wee bit more leeway by nature of their intent and purpose. However, sniping is not good form and is certainly not worthy of respect nor a sign of dignified, polite exchange.
> 
> Were you planning on asking for some edits? :ultracool


 
To avoid sniping. I dont know who you are talking to.
But if me, then. It is meant to get tighter like this. 
When the population increases heavily, the air gets dirty.

Besides. Lets go do some buisness now.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31450&hl=

The thing is. I cant really follow this rule outside this forum. If i do then i have transgressed and deserve a polite exchange.
(And it is not me who is sniping, but it is the other guys i reply to. Where i reply by the like of what they give me)


My version.


> Personal shots at my intelligence will be accepted in this case


This is a joke.


MBuzzy said:


> Ok, I feel dumb, but can someone please define trolling and "challenge post" too?


That is when you expect something else from something else. If that something else does not meet your expectations, then it has challenged you. - Or if you challenge something, and it accepts your challenge.
Only tough things are either this or that. A muslim is not excatly, but the quran is exactly.



> A challenge post is one where an individual "suggests" that they "meet" to "work it out", or flat out says something along the lines of "if I see you, I'll kick your ***."


Conserning me, i have had such an attitude. And i can honestly not preform it.
But ... i am doing this because of "accepting the challenge" of the others.
And making sure that i prevent the challenge, because it is my doom if it gets executed. (Not to mention it is yours too when it is your forum)



> Trolling is loosely defined as "deliberately provoking arguments on newsgroups or bulletin boards, with no other intent than to gain attention for the sake of attention." Basically a web troll is someone who is only here to cause problems. There are extensive discussions on them, their mannerisms and other characteristics floating around. Wiki is one good source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


I am not the social type. So i do not seek attention. Although the way i speek is challenging. ... I do have in common the challenging tone in my speaking, but i should not be classified as the other guys, who also speek challenging.


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## Jade Tigress

Mustafa said:


> Right. But the things is NOT saying anything else but the truth when one has the choise between is shortterm and longterm.
> (The shortterm with orgins in fear of consequences of a rule if disobeyed provides a temporary security. Though not on the longterm.)
> 
> 
> 
> To avoid sniping. I dont know who you are talking to.
> But if me, then. It is meant to get tighter like this.
> When the population increases heavily, the air gets dirty.
> 
> Besides. Lets go do some buisness now.
> http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31450&hl=
> 
> The thing is. I cant really follow this rule outside this forum. If i do then i have transgressed and deserve a polite exchange.
> (And it is not me who is sniping, but it is the other guys i reply to. Where i reply by the like of what they give me)
> 
> 
> My version.
> 
> This is a joke.
> 
> That is when you expect something else from something else. If that something else does not meet your expectations, then it has challenged you. - Or if you challenge something, and it accepts your challenge.
> Only tough things are either this or that. A muslim is not excatly, but the quran is exactly.
> 
> 
> Conserning me, i have had such an attitude. And i can honestly not preform it.
> But ... i am doing this because of "accepting the challenge" of the others.
> And making sure that i prevent the challenge, because it is my doom if it gets executed. (Not to mention it is yours too when it is your forum)
> 
> 
> I am not the social type. So i do not seek attention. Although the way i speek is challenging. ... I do have in common the challenging tone in my speaking, but i should not be classified as the other guys, who also speek challenging.



Huh?


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## Mustafa

Bob Hubbard said:


> In an attempt to better manage things, we are experimenting with a rules-infraction system. We are often asked "which post" and "why". This system will send you a note indicating which rules and which post are in question. The system also weights each infraction with points.
> 
> If you 'earn' 20 points, your account is suspended until the points expire.
> If you somehow earn 100 points, your account is banned.
> 
> Most points expire after a certain period of time, ranging from a week to a few months.
> 
> A sample of the setup is below:
> 1 point / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 1st Offense
> 2 points / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 2nd Offense
> 4 points / 3 months: Ignored Moderator Warning - 3rd Offense
> 1 point / 1 week: Sniping
> 1 point / 1 week: Insulted Other Member(s)
> 1 point / 1 week: Rude Post
> 1 point / 1 week: Profanity Filter Violation
> 2 points / Never: Trolling
> 100 Points / Never: Challenge Post
> 
> Right now, infractions are only being issued after an issue is discussed among the staff, and only senior staff can issue them.
> 
> Any questions on the system, please ask.


Well ... A new rule. 
What is right, is right. 

By this rule, you are asking me to totally drop the softer side, and play exactly along by the rules. And speaking directly "evil speech".
Which i dont mind doing, but i will need the consensus of the others for that most likely. (You cant be right in either way)

This system will prove being useless later on i guess "as it gets tigheter". Buat the thing is when it is very tight, one cannot think correctly about right and wrong.
And therefore will will have much power, and nothing of ethics.

I think that ... that is the objective for the moment.


And you cannot say this is disrespective post when i play along the rules. - Then you would be contradicting yourself.


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## Mustafa

Jade Tigress said:


> Huh?


I am not sniping. 
(I will always be doing that to a certain degree, but i cannot quit sniping before you quit sniping. Asking me to drop my gun is not a reasonable request. Selfcontradicting. (It is a good rule like said. Almost like no rule)
The only thing i am doing is basically brining the theory to practical example.


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## Kreth

Mustafa said:


> The only thing i am doing is basically brining the theory to practical example.


The only thing you are doing is making a lot of posts that make no sense, and in fact, make my eyes hurt.


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## Lisa

Mr. Mustafa,

I don't believe anyone here is sniping you, moreso they are failing to understand you.  This thread is for information regarding a new system we are implementing to help us do a better job of moderating this site in the fairest way we can. I for one, can not understand where you are going with this.


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## pete

if he is truly mustafa, he cannot resist when asked the same question 3x's.

now, what is the location of Dr Evil's secret volcano lair?


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## Bob Hubbard

On a forum, and in life, one has a choice in every situation. One can choose to respond, react, report, reply, or ignore.

To ignore, or to do nothing, is still a choice.

To respond to a comment in a polite manner is one of the preferred actions. 

You can react, however this tends to bring action against you.

You can reply to things, the tone of which will determine the next move.

You can also in the case of a hostile reply report it and let our staff deal with it.


Some examples.
Your child is sick. Do you want him/her to respond to the medicine, or react to the medicine?

Someone suggests that ones maternal parent mates outside her species. You can fire a flaming arrow back comparing the commenter to a bovines waste product, or you can ignore it as you know the truth, or you can report the insult to our staff, who will politely take the offender out back by the woodshed and introduce them to a clue-by-four.

Some people have the idea that if they do not fire back, that their "street cred" will somehow suffer.  They fail to understand that learned discourse amongst enlightened individuals is the goal of this forum, not bragging rights among the unenlightened barbarians who only want to boot some head.


Or, put simply, someone takes a shot at you, report em, let us deal with it, otherwise, you'll take a hit too, sometimes a worst one for upping the heat level.


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## Mustafa

Kreth said:


> The only thing you are doing is making a lot of posts that make no sense, and in fact, make my eyes hurt.


That is true.


Lisa said:


> Mr. Mustafa,
> 
> I don't believe anyone here is sniping you, moreso they are failing to understand you. This thread is for information regarding a new system we are implementing to help us do a better job of moderating this site in the fairest way we can. I for one, can not understand where you are going with this.


Do you mind giving me a link for definition of sniping? (I tried google, but i got information about sniping)

I dont know what the purpouse of this rule was. But i know that it is giving me the choise of speaking and getting banned. Or not speaking, but getting banned. - Which is ... i guess that is fair enough. 
But the thing is, if you allow me to follow this rule. That will mean i will break the other rules.



pete said:


> if he is truly mustafa, he cannot resist when asked the same question 3x's.
> now, what is the location of Dr Evil's secret volcano lair?


He has no command-center (nothing i know about). And is everywhere.:ultracool




> Or, put simply, someone takes a shot at you, report em, let us deal with it, otherwise, you'll take a hit too, sometimes a worst one for upping the heat level.


Right. Thanks


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## shesulsa

Mustafa said:


> But the thing is, if you allow me to follow this rule. That will mean i will break the other rules.



Let me make sure I completely understand your statement.

You are saying that you have no intentions of following _all_ the rules and terms and conditions you agreed to follow when you signed up here?


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## Mustafa

shesulsa said:


> Let me make sure I completely understand your statement.
> 
> You are saying that you have no intentions of following _all_ the rules and terms and conditions you agreed to follow when you signed up here?


I am not saying that. 
I mean that this rule contradicts the other rules you have. And i cannot follow both of them. Meaning you have the choise between keeping the one rule or the other regulations. 
Because the only way around this if one wishes to participate in discourse, is to not speak. 
And that is not the point of this forum.

When i said i will. I could have said one will.


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## Bob Hubbard

Sniping, as defined here, are the little subtle shots or digs that people tend to use to get a shot in under the radar.

An extreme example of a subtle snipe might be someone saying "dumb New Yorkers", in a thread about kata where everyone involved is from California....except that you know that the guy you're arguing withs wife is from NY.  Is it opinion when something is deemed a snipe? Yes. Some are obvious, some are not. We believe that serious martial artists should strive to be above such pettiness.


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## Bob Hubbard

Here is an example of a situation. It is hypothetical only.

Person A says "Your Mother". (A common street insult)

You can walk away and ignore it or continue the conversation as if you did not hear it.

You can reply with a threat/insult or physically attack (real world reaction).
This will cause an escalation of force.

You can reply with a well thought out response. This can be humor, a polite deflection, or a simple denial indicating the others facts are in error.

You can (depending on the nature of the attack) contact the police (here, mods).


One does not always have to meet force with force, fire with fire. 
Carefully thinking before one speaks (posts) is suggested. This is easier online, as one can take a few minutes, reread what they have written, and make corrections before posting it so as to avoid as much as possible, misunderstandings.


Another example is that there is a large difference between the phrases "I disagree" and "you're fn wrong". The later will get you 1-2 warnings (profanity filter circumvention / flaming reply).

In truth, things are alot simplier than they appear.  Think before posting & proofread what you write. These 2 will save you from most worries.


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## Mustafa

> In truth, things are alot simplier than they appear. Think before posting & proofread what you write. These 2 will save you from most worries.


My thinking capacity is not big.
Yet, what is the mistake i did?


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## shesulsa

Mustafa said:


> I am not saying that.
> I mean that this rule contradicts the other rules you have. And i cannot follow both of them. Meaning you have the choise between keeping the one rule or the other regulations.



Perhaps you could quote those rules which you feel are self-contradictory for us and send them in an email or private message format to the owner.


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## Bob Hubbard

Mustafa said:


> My thinking capacity is not big.
> Yet, what is the mistake i did?


Here, none that I know of.
Elsewhere, No clue.


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## Mustafa

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here, none that I know of.
> Elsewhere, No clue.


A good point, but this can be interpreted both ways. (So i dont know what you meant, but i could guess)


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## Bob Hubbard

No it means what it says. Here, I am not aware of your breaking any rules that I currently remember.

I'm not privy to much of how things work elsewhere.


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## Kacey

I may have missed this part - how will people know they have committed infractions/lost points?  And will the rest of us know, or just the person involved and the moderator(s)?


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## Lisa

Kacey said:


> I may have missed this part - how will people know they have committed infractions/lost points?  And will the rest of us know, or just the person involved and the moderator(s)?



Infraction points will show up in your profile and can only be viewed by the person to whom the infraction points were given and by the moderators/admin.


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## Mustafa

I dont think i have broken you rules.
But now i have -127 point.
I think i should be banned, according to your rules.


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## Bob Hubbard

You are confusing reputation points with infraction points.
They are not the same.


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## Mustafa

Bob Hubbard said:


> You are confusing reputation points with infraction points.
> They are not the same.


Oh... sorry. 
Where do i see what i have reputation points?


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## Bob Hubbard

USERCP  for both.

Infractions and Reputation are both clearly labeled.

If you'd had more than 20 infraction points, your account would have been suspended. 100 points is a ban.


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## EmperorOfKentukki

What if a poster willfully commits an infraction of one of the  *General Posting Rules - Revised 8-28-2005*, but then edits the post within a few minutes to cover up the original infraction?   Will that member still be punished according to the penalties listed for that rule?


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## Bob Hubbard

If we see it, or if it is reported before it's posted, possibly. Depends on what the willful infraction was.  I think the safe bet is, don't test us.


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## EmperorOfKentukki

So....then....would it make any difference who the poster is that committed the offense?


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## Bob Hubbard

no


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## MJS

EmperorOfKentukki said:


> So....then....would it make any difference who the poster is that committed the offense?


 
If you're hinting that we play favorites, I'd have to say that you would be incorrect on that.  When there is a problem, we make sure that it is discussed with the staff and in certain cases, its kicked up to the Supers and Admins.  We make sure that things are discussed fully before acting upon them.

Mike


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## Bob Hubbard

Staff who have existing relationships with an individual (friend, partner, teacher, student, etc) are not allowed to moderate those individuals, nor are staff who are actively engaged in an a thread allowed to moderate that thread, though they may post the official notices on direction from the steering board.  We have put numerous policies into place to remove personal bias from our decisions.


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## EmperorOfKentukki

That's good to know....because I remember a post that now reads:



> I have lived in places where had I made your comment to a local I would have looked down to see a knife stickingout of my chest.


 
But originally it read:



> I have lived in places where had I made your comment to a local you would have looked down to see a knife stickingout of your chest.


 
Only I don't believe any moderators had a chance to see it because it got edited.  Well...a couple may have....but it doesn't seem it got reported because according to:



> No "Challenges" - If there is *a threat* or physical challenge, *real or perceived*, issued, the person making said threat *will be immediately* *banned* from this board *with no warning or recourse*.


 
So I'm glad to see hear exceptions won't ever be made .....because a rule is a rule...and well...you do have to enforce them or else credibility would be damaged if people thought the rules didn't apply to everyone.


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## Bob Hubbard

Yes, that was reviewed, and when taken in context with the rest of the post, no threat was seen by those who reviewed it.


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## MJS

EmperorOfKentukki said:


> That's good to know....because I remember a post that now reads:
> 
> 
> 
> But originally it read:
> 
> 
> 
> Only I don't believe any moderators had a chance to see it because it got edited. Well...a couple may have....but it doesn't seem it got reported because according to:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm glad to see hear exceptions won't ever be made .....because a rule is a rule...and well...you do have to enforce them or else credibility would be damaged if people thought the rules didn't apply to everyone.


 
Did you report this post?  As it has been stated many times, members are free to report a problem post.  Its that red triangle in the upper right hand corner.  As far as the post you're talking about...as Bob stated, it was looked at, and there was no apparent threat being made to you.


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## The Master

An interesting system. It allows for a consistent and logical measurement of sin. When the scales of justice are significantly unbalanced, the hammer of justice crashes down, and the offender has no one to blame but him or her self. Being somewhat familiar with the underlying mechanism, it allows for, if configured for, the sending of a warning, a message, or an actual infraction, or a combination of those as seen fit by the constabulary. Experience has shown however, when the infractor has accrued enough points to qualify them for punishment, they will loudly and most stupidly proclaim the bias in the system, ignorant to the simple truism that they are masters of their own fate, and responsible for their own actions. Those most likely to do so, are often quite apparent by their continued public and private lambasting and debating of things that are not subject for negotiation.


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## The Master

Interesting. Much debate on the undebatable. Questions were asked for, but challenges of authority are the reply. Page 4 this is, yet little more on how this system works or will be run have we learned, though the sparring of arms hast begun. Facinating.


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## The Master

EmperorOfKentukki said:


> That's good to know....because I remember a post that now reads:
> 
> 
> 
> But originally it read:
> 
> 
> 
> Only I don't believe any moderators had a chance to see it because it got edited.  Well...a couple may have....but it doesn't seem it got reported because according to:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm glad to see hear exceptions won't ever be made .....because a rule is a rule...and well...you do have to enforce them or else credibility would be damaged if people thought the rules didn't apply to everyone.


To my educated eye, it seems a correction of possession was done as what you claim to be the original makes little sense.  



> I have lived in places where had I made your comment to a local you would have looked down to see a knife stickingout of your chest.



Why would a local inflict damage on your person, for the words of another? More importantly, how would the local know where to find you in order to inflict such punishment, and even most importantly, would they know the length of the required blade to inflict the correct non fatal, but painful damage to you for what someone else said in some other place?

Truly it is a dizzying puzzle.


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## EmperorOfKentukki

The most difficult task is to stand firm with one's convictions in the face of prejudgement, particularly where defending liberty and justice leads to public branding that taint's the jury pool even before the leveling of charge.  Is the justice of the 'scarlet letter' truly a just measure and action?  When men of concious cried freedom from tyranny at the hand of a system proclaiming benevolence but delivering unfairness did these men skulk quietyly away into dark places as their reputations had painted them by the ministers of the crown, or did they pursue vigorously the righteous path of their voices to a day when their former masters looked to them as guide to fairer politic.  Was Washington not guilty of treason?  Was Gandi not a convicted criminal?  Was not Jesus a terrorist to the State?   Should a man be force to fight a war, to starve himself, to allow himself be crucified so he may be judged not on his reputation but upon the essence of his being?  Have we not become better?  Have we learned nothing?  Or are we so sure of our humility...our greatness of character as learned men of warrior experience that we no longer see the ease with which we may move from men of justice to participants in tyranny?  Are we better judged by our deliverance of justice...or by our mercies?  Should we convict one innocent man to keep one hundred guilty men from escaping our justice?

Do you ever ponder such....as I do?


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## Jonathan Randall

====================
Mod. Note. 
Please, keep the conversation on topic..

-Jonathan Randall
-MT Moderator-
====================


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## EmperorOfKentukki

Whatever.


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## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> USERCP  for both.
> 
> Infractions and Reputation are both clearly labeled.
> 
> If you'd had more than 20 infraction points, your account would have been suspended. 100 points is a ban.



If one has no infractions then is there no reference to them?

I have tables for Reputation Received and Given, but no such table for infractions. I would assume that I do not have any, yet I would like to confirm for those who maybe worried.

I would also like to ask, that is the system will be used for posts written but not reported before the rollout? Or will it be a clean point in time, in reltionship to posts made and posts reviewed under the new system?

Thank you for your time and efforts.


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## Bob Hubbard

Rich Parsons said:


> If one has no infractions then is there no reference to them?



Correct



> I have tables for Reputation Received and Given, but no such table for infractions. I would assume that I do not have any, yet I would like to confirm for those who maybe worried.



Correct. When you receive an Infraction, it will display above your Reputation Received table.



> I would also like to ask, that is the system will be used for posts written but not reported before the rollout? Or will it be a clean point in time, in reltionship to posts made and posts reviewed under the new system?



There is a phase in period, so it depends. We usually don't consider it fair to punish for stuff thats old. Right now, most of what have been issued (and theres only been a few) are warnings only.



> Thank you for your time and efforts.



No problem


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## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> Correct
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. When you receive an Infraction, it will display above your Reputation Received table.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a phase in period, so it depends. We usually don't consider it fair to punish for stuff thats old. Right now, most of what have been issued (and theres only been a few) are warnings only.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem




Thank you for the clarifications


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## Fu_Bag

Thanks for keeping the site attractive to people who enjoy more conversation and less trolling.  That might even be a good MT slogan...

So, uh, what's the infraction system for Marital Talk going to be like?

20 Points - Didn't pick up socks and/or underwear
20 Points - Failure to share the remote control
20 Points - Failure to take out trash
20 Points - Failure to share in responsibilities of child rearing
20 Points - Commented "Yes, your butt DOES look fat in those jeans"
100,000,000,000,000,000,000 Points - Lipstick on collar





(kidding) 


Thanks to all who make the site enjoyable for everyone.


Fu Bag


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## Bob Hubbard

Naw, that looks like something my wife (had I one) would use. 

An example of MT's is waaaay back towards the beginning of this thread.  It's evolving as we try to cover things we missed earlier.


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## Drac

Fu_Bag said:


> Thanks for keeping the site attractive to people who enjoy more conversation and less trolling.  That might even be a good MT slogan...
> 
> So, uh, what's the infraction system for Marital Talk going to be like?
> 
> 20 Points - Didn't pick up socks and/or underwear
> 20 Points - Failure to share the remote control
> 20 Points - Failure to take out trash
> 20 Points - Failure to share in responsibilities of child rearing
> 20 Points - Commented "Yes, your butt DOES look fat in those jeans"
> 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 Points - Lipstick on collar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (kidding)
> 
> 
> Thanks to all who make the site enjoyable for everyone.
> 
> 
> Fu Bag


 
For lipstick on collar my wife would close MY account alomg with my eyes and windpipe..Let me echo Fu Bag's sentiments..Thanks to all who make this site enjoyable...


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## Mustafa

The Master said:


> - An interesting system. It allows for ...
> - Interesting. Much debate on the undebatable. Questions were asked for, but challenges of authority are the reply. Page 4 this is, yet little more on how this system works or will be run have we learned, though the sparring of arms hast begun. Facinating.
> - Why would a local inflict damage on your person, for the words of another? ...


- I think it is very good aswel, had it not been contradicting.
And i think it is OK that you keep on with pissing me off. (Of course ... i am joking)
- The sparring has not begun.
- Good point. Where is you God to challenge my God?


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## Mustafa

Jonathan Randall said:


> ====================
> Mod. Note.
> Please, keep the conversation on topic..
> 
> -Jonathan Randall
> -MT Moderator-
> ====================


Please make sure your rules gets enforced.



Bob Hubbard said:


> Naw, that looks like something my wife (had I one) would use.  An example of MT's is waaaay back towards the beginning of this thread. It's evolving as we try to cover things we missed earlier.


Watch out! It is OK if you can live without food only though. 
I think we both operate on a common sense here.

Thanks


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## Mustafa

Mustafa said:


> I am not saying that.
> I mean that this rule contradicts the other rules you have. *And i cannot follow both of them.* Meaning you have the choise between keeping the one rule or the other regulations.
> Because the only way around this if one wishes to participate in discourse, is to not speak.
> And that is not the point of this forum.
> 
> When i said i will. I could have said one will.


Because my leaving serves as a solution, when i am having a problem with it. I think i will do that willingly. (Thanks for not banning me. Much appreciated. )
But still. You have this weakness in your system IMO.


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## The Master

Mustafa said:


> - I think it is very good aswel, had it not been contradicting.
> And i think it is OK that you keep on with pissing me off. (Of course ... i am joking)
> - The sparring has not begun.
> - Good point. Where is you God to challenge my God?


I am unable to see the contradictions that you type of. It is a simple system of guidelines regulating polite discourse. One would expect that if one can operate a computer, that one has the capacity to read, reason, understand, and comply with such a simple system. You either lack that capacity or are intentionally disrupting matters with your insistence of non-existent contradiction that only you are able to visualize. 

As to the gods, "If there are Gods, they do not help, and victory belongs to the strong." I do not need imaginary playmates to serve as a crutch for my own failings or inability to comply with required social mores. Your continued inane babbling would have earned you a ban a long time ago, had the staff here not shown great restraint and attempted to educate the uneducatable.


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## Drac

The Master said:


> I am unable to see the contradictions that you type of. It is a simple system of guidelines regulating polite discourse. One would expect that if one can operate a computer, that one has the capacity to read, reason, understand, and comply with such a simple system. You either lack that capacity or are intentionally disrupting matters with your insistence of non-existent contradiction that only you are able to visualize


 
*EXCELLENT POST!!!!*


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## Mustafa

The Master said:


> I am unable to see the contradictions that you type of. It is a simple system of guidelines regulating polite discourse. One would expect that if one can operate a computer, that one has the capacity to read, reason, understand, and comply with such a simple system. You either lack that capacity or are intentionally disrupting matters with your insistence of non-existent contradiction that only you are able to visualize.
> 
> As to the gods, "If there are Gods, they do not help, and victory belongs to the strong." I do not need imaginary playmates to serve as a crutch for my own failings or inability to comply with required social mores. Your continued inane babbling would have earned you a ban a long time ago, had the staff here not shown great restraint and attempted to educate the uneducatable.


Everything in my computer is flinstone quality.
Though i seek perfect programs (at the moment i have the best).

And i am tankful for their patience. Because i would go to "demolition mode" if i am not given the chance to defend myself.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Mustafa said:


> Everything in my computer is flinstone quality.
> Though i seek perfect programs (at the moment i have the best).


 
Mustafa, I think I can speak from everyone here that we are interested in talking with you online.  However I am at least having a hard time following your posts.  Please try to make it easier to understand your posts.  I for one would like to have a nice discourse with you.  Thanks in advance.


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## Mustafa

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Mustafa, I think I can speak from everyone here that we are interested in talking with you online. However I am at least having a hard time following your posts. Please try to make it easier to understand your posts. I for one would like to have a nice discourse with you. Thanks in advance.


I added the last sentence before this post you posted here.
And i dont think my posts are so difficult to follow (i had to rush as said, i could probabely have made my speaking better if i had more time)


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## exile

Mustafa said:


> I added the last sentence before this post you posted here.
> And i dont think my posts are so difficult to follow (i had to rush as said, i could probabely have made my speaking better if i had more time)



Your posts are in fact consistently difficult to follow, fail to stick to the issues in the thread in spite of moderators' repeated requests, bring in religious references in a manner whose relevance to the points at issue is totally obscure, and for some peculiar reason wind up being mostly about yourself. The effect is to disrupt the thread---a point which people have repeatedly made to you and which you appear to be disregarding entirely. Please pay attention to the negative feedback you've been getting---we don't know you, or who you are; the response you've been getting, the negative rep points and so on, almost certainly reflect the facts about your posts that I've mentioned. 

Whatever your cause is, you're not helping it...


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## Brian R. VanCise

Very nicely said exhile!


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## Mustafa

Yes thanks.
I talk too much 

Which started at MAP, is leave me be.
Do what you want, but do not teach me to give up what i hold dear to me.
You can teach yourselves.

Thanks for you hospitality
Over.


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## Kacey

Mustafa said:


> Yes thanks.
> I talk too much



It is not the quantity, but the incoherence that is concerning.



Mustafa said:


> Which started at MAP, is leave me be.



I have no idea what MAP is; therefore, leaving you be seems like a reasonable option.



Mustafa said:


> Do what you want, but do not teach me to give up what i hold dear to me.



What, exactly, has anyone tried to get you to give up?



Mustafa said:


> You can teach yourselves.



We learn from each other - as is the purpose of this community.  If you feel that this community is attempting to change you in some fashion, then perhaps you should reconsider what you expected when you joined.  There are lots of people here with extensive experience they are willing to share - you can choose to take their advice or not, as you desire.



Mustafa said:


> Thanks for you hospitality
> Over.



"Courtesy is like a drink at a mountain spring."  Mohram, in _The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_, by Stephen Donaldson.  Enjoy your drink; please allow us to enjoy ours.


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## exile

Kacey said:


> It is not the quantity, but the incoherence that is concerning...
> 
> We learn from each other - as is the purpose of this community.  If you feel that this community is attempting to change you in some fashion, then perhaps you should reconsider what you expected when you joined.  There are lots of people here with extensive experience they are willing to share - you can choose to take their advice or not, as you desire..."Courtesy is like a drink at a mountain spring."  Mohram, in _The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant_, by Stephen Donaldson.  Enjoy your drink; please allow us to enjoy ours.



Bullseye, Kacey.


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## Drac

Kacey said:


> I have no idea what MAP is; therefore, leaving you be seems like a reasonable option


 
MAP could be Martial Arts Planet...I do not recall seeing him post there as I am a member there under another alias...


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## Kacey

Drac said:


> MAP could be Martial Arts Planet...I do not recall seeing him post there as I am a member there under another alias...



Thanks, Drac.  The last thing I need is to get hooked on _another_ forum.... so I don't think I'll go look right now!


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## bluemtn

I think MT is a much nicer place, to be honest with you Kacey.  I pop in on MAP from time to time under another alias, like Drac.


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## Drac

tkdgirl said:


> I think MT is a much nicer place, to be honest with you Kacey. I pop in on MAP from time to time under another alias, like Drac.


 
I look at my post could there and here...Here is where I choose to be..This *IS* the better place to be....


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## exile

Drac said:


> I look at my post could there and here...Here is where I choose to be..This *IS* the better place to be....



Amen, Drac---I've looked at half a dozen MA sites, and I've never seen anything better than MT. Many of the ones out there are places I'd feel quite uncomfortable posting to. The spirit of this site is much more... generous-minded and good-natured than most of the other sites out there, and broader in scope than just about any of them.


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## Mustafa

Mustafa said:


> Yes thanks.
> I talk too much
> 
> Which started at MAP, is leave me be.
> Do what you want, but do not teach me to give up what i hold dear to me.
> You can teach yourselves.
> 
> Thanks for you hospitality
> Over.


Maybe i am not supposed to talk at all? - But then you will say why didnt you show me! - I am NOT supposed to think for you. So don't even try. I am helping you to think the thoughts. (If that is wrong, leave it be)
It is ME who is deciding, even if you are the one who is thinking.

Troublemakers! Stop that.
What i said here is a confirmation on that i have not fallen into your trap. Only a fool falls into the hole he has dug! - Even if the fact says i dont need to confirm anything.

Now i dont mean to blame MT for anything, nor MAP or anyone. Because they are blaming eachother sorta. (If that is wrong, leave it be)

And i dont plan on extending your fingers. It is you who are melting because of the increasing heat because you have overestimated the need of firewood.
My squirtle will help ya out!  (If it happens to be so that you need that)


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## Mustafa

exile said:


> Amen, Drac---I've looked at half a dozen MA sites, and I've never seen anything better than MT. Many of the ones out there are places I'd feel quite uncomfortable posting to. The spirit of this site is much more... generous-minded and good-natured than most of the other sites out there, and broader in scope than just about any of them.


Excuze me one more time. 
I wanted to add my agreement to this with a little comment.

Let the gods fight and we will watch.  ... Oh! ... I bet on my god.


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## MBuzzy

Mustafa,

I hate to skew the direction of the thread even more...but I notice that you are in Oslo, Norway - correct?  I will assume that English is not your native language.  I believe that most of your problems stem from simple translation and communication problems.  Do you have acces to a native English speaker who can translate?  That may help

Just trying to offer some advice...


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## Mustafa

MBuzzy said:


> Mustafa,
> 
> I hate to skew the direction of the thread even more...but I notice that you are in Oslo, Norway - correct? I will assume that English is not your native language. I believe that most of your problems stem from simple translation and communication problems. Do you have acces to a native English speaker who can translate? That may help
> 
> Just trying to offer some advice...


Offering accepted, do you have goat by the way? 
 - OK. Enough jokes.

I think i understand what you are saying well. There are somethings that i dont understand sometimes, but then i use a translator (www.tritrans.net).
So i am doing fine thanks.


----------



## zDom

Mustafa said:


> So i am doing fine thanks.



Um.... no. You are NOT doing fine 

All the words you use are indeed English words, but somehow I can never quite understand what in the heck you are talking about. 

Maybe try a different translator.


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## Kacey

Mustafa said:


> I think i understand what you are saying well. There are somethings that i dont understand sometimes, but then i use a translator (www.tritrans.net).  So i am doing fine thanks.



You may understand what we are saying - but we don't understand what you are saying - "the words are the words of English, but the sense is the sense of confusion" (sorry, I can't remember who/what I'm quoting).  Have you tried www.freetranslation.com?


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## shesulsa

Suspended members cannot reply.


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## Kacey

shesulsa said:


> Suspended members cannot reply.



I know... but if he makes it back from suspension, it will be waiting for him.


----------

