# Ban Ultimate Fighting as well as Boxing...



## Lisa (Sep 10, 2007)

> In a new report released yesterday Wednesday 5 September 2007 the BMA extends its call for a complete ban on amateur and professional boxing to include mixed martial arts (MMA) competitions.
> 
> The report comes ahead of an ultimate fighting event at the O2 arena in London on Saturday 8 September. MMA includes ultimate fighting and cage fighting. It takes boxing one step further because of its 'no holds barred' approach. The BMA's Head of Ethics and Science, Dr Vivienne Nathanson, explains why the Association is extending its anti-boxing campaign to include MMA.
> 
> ...



FULL STORY

How many believe this to be true?  That MMA and boxing are a "barbaric" like sport and should be banned due to brain injuries.  Do you believe that more safety precautions should be in place like head gear to protect the brain?


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## mini_dez (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm not so sure about the headgear.  Head guards would mean that punches that would normally stop fights might not do so anymore, allowing for more punishment.  I guess it's the same sort of arguement some people have for gloves- all they do is allow boxers to hit harder.  I don't know the science of it all though so can't really argue either way.
I don't think it should be banned.  People aren't forced into boxing these days.  As my girlfriend says, "if you're stupid enough to fight".  And yes, she's aiming this at me too, I'm hoping to be a fighter for my Muay Thai gym someday 
I can understand why people want to ban it, and why the medical association would support a ban.  But if they want to go on about things that people do that harm themselves then smoking and drinking are clearly bigger targets...


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## meth18au (Sep 10, 2007)

Humans have held sporting contests, pitting two of our species against each other, in the ultimate test of physical skill and willpower for thousands of years.  Rome had the Colosseum, Ancient Greece had the Olympics, we have a variety of contact sports.  It is beautiful to watch to people, who have poured their heart and soul into their training- undergo the ultimate test against someone else who has done the same as they have.  They choose, they have the right to make that choice.

Let it be- it is a stupid debate, and absolutely ludicrous to even consider a ban on a ringsport.  It also sets the dangerous precedent of banning sports that may be considered by some people to be barbaric or carry a risk to the participants of causing harm.  If there is one thing I can't stand- is this downward spiral where our society is becoming increasingly politically correct, to the point where it is bordering on pathetic.


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## Drac (Sep 10, 2007)

meth18au said:


> Let it be- it is a stupid debate, and absolutely ludicrous to even consider a ban on a ringsport. It also sets the dangerous precedent of banning sports that may be considered by some people to be barbaric or carry a risk to the participants of causing harm. If there is one thing I can't stand- is this downward spiral where our society is becoming increasingly politically correct, to the point where it is bordering on pathetic.


 
Well said..


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## mini_dez (Sep 10, 2007)

To add to my previous post, if they ban these sports they wouldn't just go away.  Not after they've been around so long.  It'd just be forced underground.  And the illegal MMA bouts that would start would be a lot worse off as far as rules and regulations go than the professional ones that exists just now.


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## Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu (Sep 10, 2007)

I agree with what was said earlier, no one is forced into fighting those who do it, do it because they enjoy it.  It's not hurting those who aren't involved, they're not the ones taking the shots, they're not the ones who get the black eyes the concussions or the folded over ears.  I personally feel this is one of those situations where if you don't like it, turn your head.


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## CoryKS (Sep 10, 2007)

Just another example of arrogant pricks trying to rearrange the world until its just the way they like it.


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## Kosho Gakkusei (Sep 10, 2007)

This is just like the morons who regulate the school systems to the point where kids can't play tag cause they might get hurt.  Oh and what about, let's have games where everyone wins so their self-esteem doesn't get damaged.

Pitiful.

Socialism at it's best.

_Don Flatt


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2007)

It's only barbarism to those who have no idea what is going on.  To some of my friends who have never trained in the martial arts a MMA fight looks just like two people beating the hell out of each other.  To me and anyone else who's trained in the arts it's a beautiful thing to see the technical skill being employed by folks at the top of their game.  That which we do not understand we fear.  That which we fear we destroy.


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## tempus (Sep 10, 2007)

I guess we should ban american footbal as well.  Wasn't a Buffalo Bill's player potentially paralyzed from a helmet to helmet hit yesterday.  We might as well add baseball and softball to it.  I think some coaches were killed this year when they were hit with foul balls.

That group should be in the category of keep your opinion to yourself.  If you do not like it then do not par take in it or watch it.


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## Tames D (Sep 10, 2007)

tempus said:


> I guess we should ban american footbal as well. Wasn't a Buffalo Bill's player potentially paralyzed from a helmet to helmet hit yesterday. We might as well add baseball and softball to it. I think some coaches were killed this year when they were hit with foul balls.
> 
> That group should be in the category of keep your opinion to yourself. If you do not like it then do not par take in it or watch it.


Better add Air Shows to that list...


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## Andrew Green (Sep 10, 2007)

Ban it and it will go underground without governing bodies, I don't thik that will help...

People get hurt all the time doing all sorts of things, can't ban them all.  Boxing / MMA get picked on because they look the most violent, not neccessarily because they have the highest injury rate.  Definately not because they have the highest death rate.  Other "safer" sports are far more dangerous IMO.


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## thetruth (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't mind watching boxing but due to the fact the primary target is the head there is a proven link to brain injury.  I personally wouldn't let my child box.  Mixed martial arts has so many dimensions that the brain injury risk would be almost no existent due to the swiftness in which fights are stopped when someone is getting pounded and due to the many facets involved in the fight.  

Having said that, adults can do as they please and it shouldn't be up to a doctor to ban it because it is hazardous to participants health.  If they are going to do that then sports such as horse racing, which kills many more people each year around the world than all of the legally run fight sports combined should also be banned.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Tez3 (Sep 11, 2007)

The Rugby World Cup is on at the moment and on Sunday I watched the South Africa v Samoa fight oops sorry mean match! Far more violence than the usual MMA fight lol! One Samoan was taken off injured after a nasty foul by him went wrong and he knocked himself out. There were punches flying, kicks going into to bodies and that's the stuff we could see, in the scrum I shudder to think what was going on. It's the scrums too that has caused a lot of nasty broken necks ( leading to paralysis in many cases) in club games.

I don't think they will ban MMA, I hope that people though will become educated to understand what it is.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 11, 2007)

Lot's of sports are violent.  American football, rugby, Australian Rules Football, Wrestling, etc.  MMA is to popular now and a ban will never happen.


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## MJS (Sep 11, 2007)

Lisa said:


> FULL STORY
> 
> How many believe this to be true? That MMA and boxing are a "barbaric" like sport and should be banned due to brain injuries. Do you believe that more safety precautions should be in place like head gear to protect the brain?


 
This is another fine example of people who love to talk, yet they have no clue as to what they're talking about.  I mean really, wouldn't it make sense to have a full or at least a resonable amount of knowledge before calling for a ban?  There is a good portion of people who really have no idea about anything Martial Arts related.  I still have people ask me if its true that you have to register your hands with the police.  

Sen. McCain at one time, tried to ban MMA/UFC.  I believe for a while it worked, but the events still went on.  They were banned from PPV, but not from happening.  There are many more rules today than when it started in 93.  I havent seen anyone lately, getting carried off on a stretcher.  Sure, the guys are banged up, but they still walk out of the ring.  The refs that they have are IMO, on top of everything.  Sure, the fighters may get upset if they feel it got stopped too soon, etc., but nonetheless, Big John and the rest of them are great and know what to look for.

If they're going to ban MMA, then they should seriously look at all of the other sports out there.  Watch a football game.  How many times do you see the game come to a halt, because of an injury, someone getting carted off on a stretcher, etc.?  Happens much more in those sports than MMA in my opinion.

Mike


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## grydth (Sep 11, 2007)

What Great Britain and its citizens do in their own country is their own business. They need lectures from outsiders about as much as I need the UN telling me to give up my guns. The country's been around a lot longer than we have, I trust they'll sort this out on their own.


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## TheOriginalName (Sep 11, 2007)

Please read this carefully before you decide to attack me with arguments:

It is a fact - that is it has been medically proven, that those who participate in boxing for long periods of time or at the elite level suffer a degree of brain damage. 
This damage can not be undone and those who suffer it become a burdon to the public health system.

It is also a fact that doctors take an oath to preserve life. 

Therefore if boxing and other associated sports cause brain damage then it is natural for doctors to call for it to be banned. I would be worried if a doctor was encouraging it.

However, that said i do not think a blanket ban on the sports would be responsible or enforcable.

The problem is how do we have such sports and minimise the chance of serious damage occuring to the participants brains. 

This is a debate the will not go away mainly because the damage that is occuring is not physical. If participants were coming out of the ring with body parts missing, then perhaps we would see the focus of the scientific and sporting communities shift to the problem in an effort to solve the problem. 

For those who perhaps doubt the seriousness of the injuries incurred by boxers - have a look at Ali and just imagine where the sport of boxing would be if he had not taken as many hit to the head.

I will now state: I am neither a supporter of boxing nor am i call for it to be banned.


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## docmartin252 (Sep 12, 2007)

I can't believe they want to compare MMA to Roman Gladiators. Gladiators were enslaved and forced to fight each other and animals, whereas MMA fighters spend years voluntarily training for a match of skills and whits. This type of thinking will lead to a ban of any contact sport in America, and force martial arts to remain in Asia and other countries.


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## Andrew Green (Sep 12, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> It is also a fact that doctors take an oath to preserve life.
> 
> Therefore if boxing and other associated sports cause brain damage then it is natural for doctors to call for it to be banned. I would be worried if a doctor was encouraging it.




hmm... under this logic lots of things should be banned.  Smoking, drinking, greasy food, salt...  Gonna end up like Demolition Man following that pattern.

Not to mention that psychiatrists should them call for a ban on people entering law or politics, as doing so seems to damage there minds.


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## TheOriginalName (Sep 12, 2007)

Well i know that in Australia there are pushes to have smoking banned. 
There are also pushes to reduce the public profile of fast food - which is the first step towards having it banned. 
I think there is even a group pushing to have alcohol banned.....but really, what chance to they have!!

I would personally never want to see a demolition man type world it is variety and choice that make life worth living.... but that said, doesn't society have the obligation to protect it's citizens?

Even if this attempted ban of boxing and MMA goes away we will be faced with the same problem on another front - tis the fine art of drawing the line.


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## meth18au (Sep 12, 2007)

Society being who?  The government?  Have the power to take away choice- no matter if it is 'good' or 'bad'?

That's where the danger would lie in drawing a line of this sort.  Fighters know well the risks, governing bodies and the standard of care for fighters is much higher than in the past.  Nobody forces them.  It is their choice.

And in Oz- I'm fairly sure that is only a ban on smoking in public places?  You still have the choice to buy cigarettes and smoke them in 'non-public' places.  The logic behind that is that person A chooses to smoke (and cause harm to oneself), yet person B suffers (from passive smoke) and not by their own choice.  Which I think is a totally different take on the issue.  Oh- and alcohol- that'll never be banned in the land down under


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## Odin (Sep 12, 2007)

Doctors that write these reports on violent sports usually have never actually seen them, they are merely told what goes on in one via a very biase description...

usually based on the words


Cage
No rules
Blood
Martial arts


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## Tez3 (Sep 13, 2007)

I heard a good comeback the other day when we were talking about the 'human cock fighting' phrase, someone said why don't they call the 400m 'human greyhound racing then?' 

MMA has received a lot of media attention here because of the UFC in London. We had the same 'feeding frenzy' when another fight night was put on in Manchester a while back. Mike Tyson and a few high profile soccer players were there, we got all the 'barbaric' kicking in the head and killing stuff before the fights. After the show the papers were printing complaints from people who said how boring it was, how people had walked out after booing the 'cuddling' and that it was all a damp sqib! People who knew MMA said it was a good night, with good technical fights and it was about par for most promotions.


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## mini_dez (Sep 13, 2007)

Odin said:


> Cage
> No rules
> Blood
> Martial arts



Holy crap! Someone ought to ban this savagery!


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 13, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> I heard a good comeback the other day when we were talking about the 'human cock fighting' phrase, someone said why don't they call the 400m 'human greyhound racing then?'
> 
> MMA has received a lot of media attention here because of the UFC in London. We had the same 'feeding frenzy' when another fight night was put on in Manchester a while back. Mike Tyson and a few high profile soccer players were there, we got all the 'barbaric' kicking in the head and killing stuff before the fights. After the show the papers were printing complaints from people who said how boring it was, how people had walked out after booing the 'cuddling' and that it was all a damp sqib! People who knew MMA said it was a good night, with good technical fights and it was about par for most promotions.


 
This is classic.


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## CoryKS (Sep 13, 2007)

Odin said:


> Doctors that write these reports on violent sports usually have never actually seen them, they are merely told what goes on in one via a very biase description...
> 
> usually based on the words
> 
> ...


 
All we want is life beyond Thunderdome.


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## Freestyler777 (Sep 13, 2007)

I think banning these types of events will only make it go underground and therefore, less safe and organized.  Boxing, kickboxing and MMA are largely low-brow sporting events, but that is human nature.  At least that when it is legal, there is some control over the potential harm that can happen.

Mark Twain said, "the only way to get rid of desire, is to give in to it."

Making these fight-sports illegal only makes it go underground, it doesn't dissappear, because man's base nature hasn't changed in many millenia.


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## Tez3 (Sep 14, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> I think banning these types of events will only make it go underground and therefore, less safe and organized. Boxing, kickboxing and MMA are *largely low-brow sporting events*, but that is human nature. At least that when it is legal, there is some control over the potential harm that can happen.
> 
> Mark Twain said, "the only way to get rid of desire, is to give in to it."
> 
> Making these fight-sports illegal only makes it go underground, it doesn't dissappear, because man's base nature hasn't changed in many millenia.


 
Oh dear no! On an MMA forum I use we had a thread asking what everyone did for a living, guess what? there are many professional and blue collar workers who do MMA! I would argue that for kickboxing too.Boxing I know little about but it's appeal is across the social scale. We have doctors, police officers, social workers, lecturers, IT specialists, teachers, firemen, para medics, military personnel, nurses, officer workers etc who do MMA. There a few doormen but here you have to be qualified to do that job. The crowds I've seen at shows are knowledgeable and getting more so. This is going to be a mainstream sport, people are realising that it is very technical and entertaining. We've got out of the 'street fighting' element of it by having shows that are professionally run and by countering the allegations of barbarity with reasoned logical arguments.

We have fighters like Rosi Sexton (Phd in mathematics) being interviewed in mainstream newspapers, Mike Bisping has been the focus of a lot of media attention which is now going on the sports pages rather than the editorials calling for the banning of the sport.

A lot depends on how we as participants in the sports view it and publicise it, we are doing everything we can to make people understand the nature of the sport. All the promoters have changed their posters and flyers to reflect the sport as a sport, gone are the images of blood and blackeyes and slogans like last man standing wins etc. Now they are every bit as professional as the top sporting events publicity.It's an uphill struggle admittedly, but we are determined to get to the top!


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## Freestyler777 (Sep 14, 2007)

'Low Brow' may have been a bit extreme.  But there are loftier human activities, like art, philosophy, and music.  However, I do like K-1 and muay thai, so maybe I am low brow too!


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## Tez3 (Sep 14, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> 'Low Brow' may have been a bit extreme. But there are loftier human activities, like *art, philosophy, and music*. However, I do like K-1 and muay thai, so maybe I am low brow too!


 
I thnk you underestimate the amount of violence in these activities lol! Seriously, these can all produce violent reactions! In philosophy people have been put to death for having views that didn't coincide with the norm! Art is full of violence see Picasso's Geurnica and a lot of artists lives are colourful to say the least. In music, get on the wrong side of the audience at La Scala Milan you'll know about it. Opera fans in some places have been known to burn opera houses down. Not to mention the amount of violence in operas and some ballets. makes MMA seem quite tame really! Look at Shakespeare's plays, incredible violence in Coriolanus!


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## meth18au (Sep 20, 2007)

Funny that we've discussed this issue in this thread over the past week or so.  Because there is now a 'push' by our local media in Western Australia to ban 'cage fighting'.  This is in reference to an upcoming MMA bout later in the year in our state.  The issue has now become politicized, it has been on news and in the papers.


Here's some links:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/WA-govt-urged-to-stop-cage-fight/2007/09/19/1189881581712.html

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22444088-2761,00.html


How stupid.  Some of the stuff that has been said is so annoying, and this hype that our media creates by [SIZE=-1]over-sensualizing apparent issues really works.  I've was asking my sister if she would like to attend the upcoming event (as we like to go watch fights together), and it caused an uproar with other family members.  The fact that I wanted to go and see this, and bring my sister along to such a 'barbaric' event, it just didn't go down well.  However before this push by the media, I guarantee such a proposal would have gone either unnoticed, or very little attention would have been paid to it.  Hell- I might have even been able to con one of the family members whom were so negative into going.  And they probably would have enjoyed the fights!!!


Stupid media- they can have such influence on so many people  .Here's to hoping this promotion goes forward, and that they will be continued to allowed to do so.  Otherwise I may have to move state....




[/SIZE]


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## jeepee (Sep 21, 2007)

Being a martial arts practitioner AND a soon-to-be Neuropsychologist (1 or 2 years 'till I'm done with this @#!@X Ph.D.!), I think that the best way to promote safety in combat sports would be to explain what are the real risks.

First, any person who has common sense knows that you can't ban sports as big as boxing or MMA fighting, and I think that we all agree with this for obvious reasons that I won't repeat here. So, what would I tell to someone who wants to start "fighting in cages"? -You are obviously more at risk of getting brain injuries from competing in these types of fight, than playing tennis for example. Brain injury symptoms can be numerous such as continuous headaches, memory lost, concentration difficulties, etc. Some can be short-lasting (1-7 days) but others might also be long-lasting (months and even years). Also, multiple concussions (as light as they may be; a good example is Homer Simpson's numerous head injuries ) can aggravate these symptoms. A good way to prevent this would be to get proper evaluation from health professionals as soon as you can, right after your head injuries.

However, all that is said here is applicable to all contact sports such as football, kickboxing, not only MMA! I think that health professionals should promote health by giving information and advices, but not by trying to play legislators. People are and will always be free to do what they want with their own lives, as long as they know the risks involved.


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## meth18au (Sep 21, 2007)

jeepee said:


> However, all that is said here is applicable to all contact sports such as football, kickboxing, not only MMA! I think that health professionals should promote health by giving information and advices, but not by trying to play legislators. People are and will always be free to do what they want with their own lives, as long as they know the risks involved.





Well said!!!  Long live freedom!!!


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## Tez3 (Sep 21, 2007)

I was reading today about the attempts to stop the Australian show.

What is overlooked is that many fight MMA amateur rules where there are no head shots whatsoever. I enjoy kickboxing but the doctors haven't mentioned that yet, that may even be more violent than MMA (depending on what rules are used) MT allows elbows which can be devastrating in the damage they cause. Many MMA promoters don't allow elbow strikes for that reason. We don't allow downward elbow strikes at all, they are dangerus and can be very nasty.


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 21, 2007)

On this subject, have you had any run-ins with the new coaching certification scheme yet Tez?  Do you know what plans the government has for MMA?


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## Tez3 (Sep 21, 2007)

FieldDiscipline said:


> On this subject, have you had any run-ins with the new coaching certification scheme yet Tez? Do you know what plans the government has for MMA?


 
We haven't heard anything at all. The MMA scene is complicated due to the fact there is no regulating body at all. Promoters and fighters are trying start one but it's going to take a lot of work to get everyone to agree lol! Grant Waterman who along with Marc Goddard is the top ref in this country is trying to get things going. Our promotion is Pride & Glory.



http://p102.ezboard.com/fsfuksubmissionfightinguksfukmmaforum.showMessage?topicID=25207.topic


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 21, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> We haven't heard anything at all. The MMA scene is complicated due to the fact there is no regulating body at all. Promoters and fighters are trying start one but it's going to take a lot of work to get everyone to agree lol! Grant Waterman who along with Marc Goddard is the top ref in this country is trying to get things going. Our promotion is Pride & Glory.
> 
> 
> 
> http://p102.ezboard.com/fsfuksubmissionfightinguksfukmmaforum.showMessage?topicID=25207.topic



Karate is having the same 'problem' I believe.  You are lucky.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread...


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## meth18au (Sep 23, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> I enjoy kickboxing but the doctors haven't mentioned that yet, that may even be more violent than MMA (depending on what rules are used) MT allows elbows which can be devastating in the damage they cause.




Full MT rules are brutal- but it is the choice of the fighter.  Of course elbows can be damaging.  Soon I plan to train to get in the ring- I don't want some politician or journalist sitting there telling me it is barbaric and I can't do that! And I can't wait to use my elbows, and have them used on me!!!


I'm baffled as to what angle these people are coming from?  I mean they could argue that (from what I have read and heard):
1. The sport risks serious injury to participants
2. The sport is barbaric, it is fought in a cage
3. The contestants lives are at risk
4. It is distasteful in todays 'civilised' society
5. We don't need extra violence in this society
6. People shouldn't be allowed to make money off of people's need for 'bloodlust' and violence


But here are my answers to their reasoning.  And how illogical some of their arguments are!!!

1. Yes it risks injury.  So does rugby, football, surfing....hell all sports do.  People choose to do it, let them have the choice.  Death comes to all of us, why hide from it on our couch eating potato chips?

2. Is it barbaric?  To some maybe, to others it is a highly skilled battle between 2 warriors whom have trained their heart out to get to that point.   Yes it is in a cage (sometimes)!!!  So what is your point?

3. Yes, but many safeguards are in place to ensure the safety of the fighters.  And they aren't actually there to kill each other, regardless of what some people say.  And all the arugements from point #1 apply to this point too!!!

4. Distasteful to some, not to others.  Is todays society civilised?  Ok, of course it is.  That's why our politicians live filthy rich lives off our taxes, while we all bust our asses off to make a living.  Hell, some people live in absolute poverty, whilst others wipe their asses with money coz they are so rich. 

5. No extra violence?  Ok, stop sending our troops to war then.

6. Isn't that why governments do when they go to war?  What about filmmakers?  I remember Arnie in Predator and Terminator.  People watched those films to watch him kill people and blow up things.  Where there is a demand, someone will supply.  It is free-market economics.  Or aren't we free markets anymore?



I've been thinking about this issue again.  Just trying to see where the other side is coming from, and I still cant fathom where they deduce their logic from!!!

Peace


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## Andy Moynihan (Sep 23, 2007)

Well Ok, I've read the whole thing and good points made by all.


I am not traditionally a person who enjoys the idea of the sports mentioned here. There was a time in my youth when I did, but I grew up.

I'm not a fan of any form of martial arts being marketed for public consumption in any way, shape or form at all, because I believe the purpose of said arts is personal growth, with the emphasis on "personal".  You want to have some full contact, MMA-style rules in your sparring matches? As long as the purpose is for your personal growth as a martial artist, go ahead. But I have a VERY big problem when publicity or money become involved because both take away from the arts' true purpose as I view it. I don't like the marketing scheme that hypes up the trash talking, "violent" aspect of the arts mentioned, and I don't like the Unenlightened Masses getting the wrong idea about MY training as a result, I do not even want the Unenlightened Masses to know about my training at ALL. Martial arts are for martial artists, not the gawkers or idly curious, and should be kept from their eyes whenever possible lest they , being ignorant, misunderstand. Now some people may feel this is what they need, because they have something to prove to themselves, or others, or whateever. I was there myself at one point. Having grown up and evolved past that need, I no longer find such events to possess any excitement or useful purpose at all. to me.


Now--with all that being said, I equally oppose the position of the medical authority in the original post to create a ban on these activities because it is none of their goddamned business.  I may not like them, but It is not for me to decide what someone who wants to enter does or does not need in order to get over whatever hurdle they have in their life, or it may be, for whatever reason, this is the passion that drives them in life, I neither know nor care, and neither should any lab coat lawyer, and that's the point.

I also happen not to like semiautomatic rifles patterned after the AK-47 or AR-15 designs( i just happen not to like the inaccuracy of the one, and the overly complex mechanism and substandard caliber of the other). . I like even LESS the idea of an ignorant, busybody legislator arbitrarily telling me I cannot own one to protect me from myself for my own good. I am a law abiding US citizen who is serving his country in uniform during wartime, if not in combat,, in the only manner left open to me, at a time when too many much younger and much more fit to serve than I, refuse, and as far as I see it that means I have EARNED the rights guaranteed me in my country and no politician has absolutely ANYTHING to say to me about what I do or do not need. *I* will decide what is or is not "good enough" to save my or my family's lives should the need arise, and so should any free person, cognizant of the physical risks, be left to decide for themselves what is or is not the path they must tread to prove whatever entering such an event as these will prove to them.


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## TongPo (Nov 1, 2007)

Lisa said:


> FULL STORY
> 
> How many believe this to be true? That MMA and boxing are a "barbaric" like sport and should be banned due to brain injuries. Do you believe that more safety precautions should be in place like head gear to protect the brain?


 
This is the funniest thread I have ever seen in my life. You do know that boxing was the first sport to ever be televised right. First off it will never happen. UFC is way to big. His the simple answer, Dont watch it! Do you blame the news for showing child murders, rapest, and drug dealers? There are a lot of worse more important issues to address not "should mma fighters wear head gear." They know what they are getting into there fighters.


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## Kichigai-no-Okami (Nov 4, 2007)

> The report comes ahead of an ultimate fighting event at the O2 arena in London on Saturday 8 September. MMA includes ultimate fighting and cage fighting. It takes boxing one step further because of its 'no holds barred' approach. The BMA's Head of Ethics and Science, Dr Vivienne Nathanson, explains why the Association is extending its anti-boxing campaign to include MMA.
> 
> "Ultimate fighting can be extremely brutal and has been described as 'human cockfighting'. It can cause traumatic brain injury, joint injuries and fractures.



Mabye this doctor chick should put on some gloves , and go a few.  She might like it.  (Mmmmm.......Chick fight!)
:drinkbeer


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## Odin (Nov 8, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> . But I have a VERY big problem when publicity or money become involved because both take away from the arts' true purpose as I view it. .


 

So do you not pay for your chosen martial arts lessons then?


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## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2007)

UFC aside, few fight shows make money trust me. We have to charge to see shows, there would be no shows else. Costs.....
Hire of venue and staff at venue.
insurances
medics and ambulance
fee for judges and referees
purses for pro fighters
accomodation and flights for pro fighters
expenses for amateur and semi pro fighters
hire of ring/cage
hire of PA system
hire of MC
hire of film crew
cost of ticket printing
cost of printing posters and flyers.
hire of security/doormen
cost of phone calls to fighters etc when making card up
hire of lighting
food and bottled water for fighters and crew


If you sell enough tickets you get your money back if not tough.There's always expenses like fuel, wear and tear on cars. postage  etc. Rarely will a promoter make much more than a few quid on top which like as not will go into the next show. As I said UFC and maybe a couple of other big shows can do it for the money (but then they have big money behind them) the rest of us do it for love.


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## gino (Nov 8, 2007)

meth18au said:


> Humans have held sporting contests, pitting two of our species against each other, in the ultimate test of physical skill and willpower for thousands of years. Rome had the Colosseum, Ancient Greece had the Olympics, we have a variety of contact sports. It is beautiful to watch to people, who have poured their heart and soul into their training- undergo the ultimate test against someone else who has done the same as they have. They choose, they have the right to make that choice.
> 
> Let it be- it is a stupid debate, and absolutely ludicrous to even consider a ban on a ringsport. It also sets the dangerous precedent of banning sports that may be considered by some people to be barbaric or carry a risk to the participants of causing harm. If there is one thing I can't stand- is this downward spiral where our society is becoming increasingly politically correct, to the point where it is bordering on pathetic.


 
 pankration is actually one of the oldest mixed martial arts known to man..  the first olympics were based on insane feats based upon fighting,using many sorts of real weapons...they even actually had men fight lions and different animals,kinda like modern day bullfighting but probably alot more fun to watch... What then you need to think about is progress..the gov is scared of it..point blank...the first settlers stole this land,slaughtered all the indians and called it home...Cool..So why only a cpl hundered years later,are we being told that fighting eachother is barbaric??? Why do we care what they say?  I mean its the same with the war, US government wants to control you,as they do in Iran,vietnam or wherever else they feel like sticking their noses in...  you cant do that ,even tho we can...God bless america....America is based on fighting-for freedom,for individual rights,the right to defend ones self,but to defend ones self mostly from the government and that is the exact reason it was written like that!!!!!..People foget why america was even supposedly created....they take your guns and now they will take your fighting too...  just tell me how the hell this happened? who are these people to tell us whats right after people have been doing this clearly for thousands of years,and more than likely since the beginning of man...!!! Can I get an Amen


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## cohenp (Nov 12, 2007)

People won't ban UFC or boxing. People like it too much. It just won't happen. It just happens that some people are stupid and want to ban everyone. There is a dude who has a website to ban cyclists from cities too.  

The only real problem that I can see with boxing and head injuries, is the standing eight count. A punch in boxing that would be a knockout in MMA can be recovered from and taken multiple times in one match. In mma you take one big shot and you're done for the night. Boxing you take the knockout punch like five or six times. If this doctor wanted to accomplish anything she would try to ban the standing eight count. 

As for all other injuries, I've hurt myself much worse and much more frequently playing american football than I ever have training mma, or wrestling.


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## Sorros (Nov 12, 2007)

Lisa said:


> FULL STORY
> 
> How many believe this to be true? That MMA and boxing are a "barbaric" like sport and should be banned due to brain injuries. Do you believe that more safety precautions should be in place like head gear to protect the brain?


NO, NO, NO, never say that again, no more posting ever. Ban Them, Ban Them , Where is the moderator for this thread.

Sorry just kinda went into hysterics for a second there.


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## Lisa (Nov 12, 2007)

Sorros said:


> NO, NO, NO, never say that again, no more posting ever. Ban Them, Ban Them , Where is the moderator for this thread.
> 
> Sorry just kinda went into hysterics for a second there.




umm...the moderator for the thread?  Well one of them would be me, the original poster. 

Can't ban myself.


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## Omar B (Nov 12, 2007)

You can't regulate what two adults do by choice when it hurts or infringes upon the rights of noone else.  It's two men in a ring, it's not like they are forced in there.

I hate governing bodies trying to make choices for us.


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## DRay (Nov 18, 2007)

cohenp said:


> People won't ban UFC or boxing. People like it too much. It just won't happen. It just happens that some people are stupid and want to ban everyone. There is a dude who has a website to ban cyclists from cities too.
> 
> The only real problem that I can see with boxing and head injuries, is the standing eight count. A punch in boxing that would be a knockout in MMA can be recovered from and taken multiple times in one match. In mma you take one big shot and you're done for the night. Boxing you take the knockout punch like five or six times. If this doctor wanted to accomplish anything she would try to ban the standing eight count.
> 
> As for all other injuries, I've hurt myself much worse and much more frequently playing american football than I ever have training mma, or wrestling.



You have it exactly right.  The standing eight count is what causes brain damage.  That's the main reason why MMA is safer.  The submission/threat of submission also means that fighters don't just take head shots over and over again like in boxing, again making MMA safer.


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## TheArtofDave (Dec 30, 2007)

You guys don't crucify me while I add in my pov too. The standing eight count is not what causes brain damage. Consistent shots to the head does. Now when you're being punched in the face consistently for 12 rounds yea its going to have an effect. A better way to regulate boxing would be to say no more shots to the head/face but that wont happen because it would take the knock outs out of boxing. There is a doctor on hand, and the ref is looking out for the boxer on the standing eight, if he is no longer able to go then the fight is stopped. So actually the standing eight is a safety measure instead of a guy who lays on the canvas with his brains scrambled getting a ten count. The doctor most usually checks out the fighter to make sure he can go. Even a better idea is for the boxing commission to hire doctors as refs. Of course we're not likely to see that happen either.

 Most professional boxers use 6 oz gloves. My brother and I use to box each other with 12 oz gloves, and they hurt but they have a lot of padding. I've never owned a pair of 6 oz gloves so not sure how good the padding is. We use to box the neighborhood kids, and I've boxed a few other people but never amateur, and never professionally. You're not out to kill somebody in the boxing ring, which is what these people are talking about.

In MMA if you cannot defend yourself against strikes you're done. Which is the same in boxing. If you don't fight then you're done. But MMA can also put you out with submission too. Conditioning is what saves you in boxing/MMA. You've got to be in the best shape of your life in order to step into the ring/cage. Lets not forget this doctor doesn't even consider the strategies by each team which are applied by the fighter, and each team is coaching their fighter during the match. It really gives you a great idea as to how effective the over all styles can be. And for people who train in MMA I'd like to see the styles expand to encompass more than just what they promote. 

I'm against the ban as well because if you break it down into a strategic science you can appreciate it more as a sport instead of finding every reason in the world to get rid of it.  The UFC from what I can tell is doing its best to regulate MMA as a sport, and other bodies who promote MMA will do the same thing.

I think elbows could be dangerous so I would probably elminate those from the sport but other than that one aspect then I can see MMA as a safer altenative to a few of the boxings bouts.

Anyway I like to see a universal set of MMA rules but we can only wait to see if we'll get them.


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## Bodhisattva (Jan 2, 2008)

Lisa said:


> FULL STORY
> 
> How many believe this to be true? That MMA and boxing are a "barbaric" like sport and should be banned due to brain injuries. Do you believe that more safety precautions should be in place like head gear to protect the brain?


 
No. I think that's ridiculous. Hopefull MMA and NHB have enough support (reads: money) backing them now that we won't have to worry about authorities interfering with our passtime/sport.
If they do, the fights in Brazil are going to get a lot more viewers from the states.


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## Odin (Jan 4, 2008)

TheArtofDave said:


> You guys don't crucify me while I add in my pov too. The standing eight count is not what causes brain damage. Consistent shots to the head does. Now when you're being punched in the face consistently for 12 rounds yea its going to have an effect. A better way to regulate boxing would be to say no more shots to the head/face but that wont happen because it would take the knock outs out of boxing. There is a doctor on hand, and the ref is looking out for the boxer on the standing eight, if he is no longer able to go then the fight is stopped. So actually the standing eight is a safety measure instead of a guy who lays on the canvas with his brains scrambled getting a ten count. The doctor most usually checks out the fighter to make sure he can go. Even a better idea is for the boxing commission to hire doctors as refs. Of course we're not likely to see that happen either.
> 
> Most professional boxers use 6 oz gloves. My brother and I use to box each other with 12 oz gloves, and they hurt but they have a lot of padding. I've never owned a pair of 6 oz gloves so not sure how good the padding is. We use to box the neighborhood kids, and I've boxed a few other people but never amateur, and never professionally. You're not out to kill somebody in the boxing ring, which is what these people are talking about.
> 
> ...


 
The reason that the standing 8 count is bad for the boxer is because the effects of brain damage cannot be seen straight away, a boxer can get up and look fine but it doesnt mean that his brain is, the head of a fighter (or people with head injuries ) is usually needed to be scanned by specialised equipment before any life threatening damage is found, its impossiable for the ref to tell how injured a boxer is just by looking at him ( or his ablility to hold his hands up )....and to be honest alot of the time the fight is not stopped becuase the fighter is hurt but more so because the fighter cannot fight.

The big difference between boxing and MMA though is the tap out, in boxing if a fighter is in a position where he knows he cannot win he cant give up without damaging his reputation which effects his career...his only option is to hope his corner throw in the towel or allowing himself to be knocked out,remember its the constant blows to the head that cause the damage not the one shot that knocks you out, in MMA tap outs due to strikes is not looked down upon making it an almost safety net for fighters since if they are put in a bad position they do not have to suffer anymore potential life threatening damage.


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