# Independent Instructor looking for someone to test me for 3rd Dan



## dcsma (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey everyone.  I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan.  I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 21, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Hey everyone.  I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan.  I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.



Master Cole may be able to help you. Maybe he will post here.


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## Earl Weiss (Aug 22, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Hey everyone.  I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan.  I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.



What patterns do yo practice? I have met people who say they are from a CDK school when they were doing patterns from another system but had a CDK lineage? What do you know of your lineage?


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## rlobrecht (Aug 22, 2012)

I remember seeing that AAU performs Dan gradings.


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 22, 2012)

You might want to consider looking not for someone who will test you so much as for an instructor under whom you can study and who will help your development in Taekwon-Do. While it's not unheard of for people to test others who have no instructor-student relationship with them or who are not even in the same organzation as they are I would personally avoid anyone who did so.

Pax,

Chris


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## Kong Soo Do (Aug 22, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Hey everyone. I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan. I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.



You were asking this back in February.  Didn't any of the offered assistance workout?


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## miguksaram (Aug 22, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Hey everyone. I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan. I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.


Just curious, but what do you need your 3rd dan and why can't you get tested where you were?


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## kitkatninja (Aug 22, 2012)

There could be a few reasons why *dcsma* needs to be tested elsewhere, eg politics, restrictions by the federation/association that *dcsma* is a member of, etc.

@*dcsma*, if you don't mind the UK, you can contact GM Tony Vohra 8th Dan - he may be able to help (however traveling, accomodation, etc... is up to you to sort out).  Or there's Master Sung J. Woo 6th Dan at Taekwonwoo.


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## Grenadier (Aug 22, 2012)

If you're looking to stick with Chung Do Kwan, then there are some excellent folks in your region.  

GM Steven Travis is in the northern Indiana area.  I strongly recommend him.  

GM Sung Jae Park is in the Indianapolis area.


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## Blindside (Aug 22, 2012)

It would seem to me that the first step before looking for a promotion would be to find an instructor and begin a relationship with him.  People I promote will represent me, both in skill and attitude, something that I need to see for longer than a 2/3/5/whatever hour test.  I can't imagine someone coming to me for just a test for a senior ranking, I would want some serious time on the mats before any test.


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## miguksaram (Aug 22, 2012)

kitkatninja said:


> There could be a few reasons why *dcsma* needs to be tested elsewhere, eg politics, restrictions by the federation/association that *dcsma* is a member of, etc.
> 
> @*dcsma*, if you don't mind the UK, you can contact GM Tony Vohra 8th Dan - he may be able to help (however traveling, accomodation, etc... is up to you to sort out). Or there's Master Sung J. Woo 6th Dan at Taekwonwoo.


Actually, I just looked back at the first time he asked about this and GM Al Cole attempted to contact him. So I guess my question now to the OP is what happened with that route?  GM Cole is pretty good with helping people out in TKD.


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## dcsma (Aug 22, 2012)

Thank you for all of your responses.  I will address them in time.


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## ATC (Aug 22, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Thank you for all of your responses.  I will address them in time.


??????....Hhhmmmmm?


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## SPX (Aug 22, 2012)

ATC said:


> ??????....Hhhmmmmm?



Yeah . . . WTF?


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## FieldDiscipline (Aug 25, 2012)

SPX said:


> Yeah . . . WTF?



Was bound to be their fault...


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## d1jinx (Aug 25, 2012)

So are we fishing? Looking for the big bite?

I'm sure there are quite a few here who would gladly make you a certificate...


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## dcsma (Aug 25, 2012)

Looking for the big bite basically.


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## shesulsa (Aug 26, 2012)

And who might the Big Bite be?


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## Master Dan (Aug 28, 2012)

There is plenty of help out there for people with bonified reasons for needing help? I PMed this person with specifics and never got a response this OP or thread seems to be fishing to me?


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## shesulsa (Aug 28, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> There is plenty of help out there for people with bonified reasons for needing help? I PMed this person with specifics and never got a response this OP or thread seems to be fishing to me?



Yep. He admitted as much.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 28, 2012)

Even if he is fishing, who cares? What exactly is he going to do with the knowledge that someone is willing to test him for 3rd Dan?


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## shesulsa (Aug 28, 2012)

Seems there is a hidden agenda.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 28, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Seems there is a hidden agenda.
> 
> Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2



Not to be disrespectful, but he's an independent 2nd Dan. (Not that there's anything wrong with that). What does his agenda mean to the wider taekwondo community? Nothing.


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## Kinghercules (Aug 28, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Hey everyone.  I'm a independent school instructor in Tae Kwon Do in the Cincinnati Ohio area looking to get tested for 3rd Dan.  I came from a Chung Do Kwan school and I'm currently a 2nd Dan. So if anyone can help I would much appreciate it.



Let me ask you.......






.....is this what you've been training in?


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## RobinTKD (Aug 28, 2012)

That is way too fast for my liking. Is that how the pattern is supposed to be done?


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## dcsma (Aug 28, 2012)

For starters my internet connection has been hit and miss and is getting looked at come Friday.  So hopefully to that will resolve that laps in a response.  Secondly no hidden agenda here just looking for someone to be able to test for 3rd Dan with out going underneath a governing body.  For personal reasons I wont get into here, but I wish to stay independent and not fall under a governing body.  For the video that is posted above no that is not the style of Tae Kwon Do I have trained in. I was brung up on the Pal Gwe Poomse but now learning the Tae Guk Poomse as well. Hopefully I will have a better internet connection come Friday to be able respond better.


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## jks9199 (Aug 28, 2012)

dcsma said:


> For starters my internet connection has been hit and miss and is getting looked at come Friday.  So hopefully to that will resolve that laps in a response.  Secondly no hidden agenda here just looking for someone to be able to test for 3rd Dan with out going underneath a governing body.  For personal reasons I wont get into here, but I wish to stay independent and not fall under a governing body.  For the video that is posted above no that is not the style of Tae Kwon Do I have trained in. I was brung up on the Pal Gwe Poomse but now learning the Tae Guk Poomse as well. Hopefully I will have a better internet connection come Friday to be able respond better.



If you don't want to align with an organization, why do you want one to verify or validate  your rank?  I see you as having two options: 1) promote yourself, or 2) bring a couple of independent senior taekwondo instructors to come in and test or evaluate you.  I simply can't see a meaningful ranking coming from an organization that doesn't require you to become a member of it...  After all, if their name is on your rank, they're probably going to want to influence and monitor how you train, no?


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 28, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> If you don't want to align with an organization, why do you want one to verify or validate  your rank?  I see you as having two options: 1) promote yourself, or 2) bring a couple of independent senior taekwondo instructors to come in and test or evaluate you.  I simply can't see a meaningful ranking coming from an organization that doesn't require you to become a member of it...  After all, if their name is on your rank, they're probably going to want to influence and monitor how you train, no?




This. Absolutely.


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## Kinghercules (Aug 28, 2012)

dcsma said:


> For starters my internet connection has been hit and miss and is getting looked at come Friday.  So hopefully to that will resolve that laps in a response.  Secondly no hidden agenda here just looking for someone to be able to test for 3rd Dan with out going underneath a governing body.  For personal reasons I wont get into here, but I wish to stay independent and not fall under a governing body.  For the video that is posted above no that is not the style of Tae Kwon Do I have trained in. I was brung up on the Pal Gwe Poomse but now learning the Tae Guk Poomse as well. Hopefully I will have a better internet connection come Friday to be able respond better.



Thats not TKD, thats Chung Do Kwan.
You said you had trained in CDK so thats why I posted that vid.

I would like to know why TKD?


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 28, 2012)

The real Chungdokwan currently endorses the kukkiwon Taekwondo curriculum. Chung Do Kwan most certainly is Taekwondo.


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## Kinghercules (Aug 29, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> The real Chungdokwan currently endorses the kukkiwon Taekwondo curriculum. Chung Do Kwan most certainly is Taekwondo.



Oh....ok.....wasnt aware of that because Ive seen CDK schools that still do the TSD katas.


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## miguksaram (Aug 29, 2012)

Kinghercules said:


> Thats not TKD, thats Chung Do Kwan.
> You said you had trained in CDK so thats why I posted that vid.
> 
> I would like to know why TKD?



CDK is TKD.  However, was that form from GM Son's CDK?


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## Kinghercules (Aug 29, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> CDK is TKD.  However, was that form from GM Son's CDK?


Yeah but not all CDK do Kukkiwon froms.
So thats why I was asking?


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 29, 2012)

Kinghercules said:


> Oh....ok.....wasnt aware of that because Ive seen CDK schools that still do the TSD katas.



If that was a Kukkiwon form, it was so bad I didn't recognize it. :uhyeah:

Lots of schools call themselves Chung Do Kwan, doesn't really mean anything. the CDK is currently basically a social club, like the Chang Moo Kwan (my background)


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## Kinghercules (Aug 29, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> If that was a Kukkiwon form, it was so bad I didn't recognize it. :uhyeah:
> 
> Lots of schools call themselves Chung Do Kwan, doesn't really mean anything. the CDK is currently basically a social club, like the Chang Moo Kwan (my background)



We're all in social clubs.

Why wouldnt Chung Do Kwan mean anything?
Especially if they're not following TKD's curriculum.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 29, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> If that was a Kukkiwon form, it was so bad I didn't recognize it. :uhyeah:
> 
> Lots of schools call themselves Chung Do Kwan, doesn't really mean anything. the CDK is currently basically a social club, like the Chang Moo Kwan (my background)



Not quite correct. The Chung Do Kwan *in Korea* is basically a social club, just as is true of the other original Kwans. However, there are certainly active groups with Chung Do Kwan roots who may or may not practice TKD in accordance with the KKW standard.


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 29, 2012)

Kinghercules said:


> We're all in social clubs.
> 
> Why wouldnt Chung Do Kwan mean anything?
> Especially if they're not following TKD's curriculum.



It doesn't mean anything consistently, except the particular club has CDK roots. Chung Do Kwan as a federation doesn't teach or endorse anything outside kukkiwon taekwondo.



Dirty Dog said:


> Not quite correct. The Chung Do Kwan *in Korea* is basically a social club, just as is true of the other original Kwans. However, there are certainly active groups with Chung Do Kwan roots who may or may not practice TKD in accordance with the KKW standard.



The Chung Do Kwan in Korea is the continuation, more or less, of the original school, that's what I meant. the other CDK federations just have CDK roots.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 29, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> The Chung Do Kwan in Korea is the continuation, more or less, of the original school, that's what I meant. the other CDK federations just have CDK roots.



That's one way to view it. Another way is that the CDK (or MDK or whatever) that is still more than just a social club is the continuation, more or less, of the original school.


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## Kinghercules (Aug 29, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> It doesn't mean anything consistently, except the particular club has CDK roots. Chung Do Kwan as a federation doesn't teach or endorse anything outside kukkiwon taekwondo.
> 
> 
> 
> The Chung Do Kwan in Korea is the continuation, more or less, of the original school, that's what I meant. the other CDK federations just have CDK roots.


Oooooohhhhhhh.......ok.
Gotcha.


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## miguksaram (Aug 30, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's one way to view it. Another way is that the CDK (or MDK or whatever) that is still more than just a social club is the continuation, more or less, of the original school.


But then that goes back to saying CDK is not TKD.  It is.  A continuation of the original school would be a school that adheres to KKW standards.  That is what GM Lee Won-kuk decided on the direction of the school.  You may have CDK schools that have not adhered to the Taeguk forms, but the forms they practice are old TKD forms.  The only exception to this may be GM Son's CDK school.  I do not know if they still practice his forms or if they have shifted to Taeguks by now.  It is also why I was asking if the person in the video was part of GM Son's school because I did not recognize that as any Taeguk or Palgue form, though I admit my memory of Palgue forms are very rusty.


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## IcemanSK (Aug 30, 2012)

I believe the video was of one of GM SON's students. I believe they still do the old forms & have nothing to do with Kukkiwon.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 30, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> But then that goes back to saying CDK is not TKD.  It is.  A continuation of the original school would be a school that adheres to KKW standards.  That is what GM Lee Won-kuk decided on the direction of the school.  You may have CDK schools that have not adhered to the Taeguk forms, but the forms they practice are old TKD forms.  The only exception to this may be GM Son's CDK school.  I do not know if they still practice his forms or if they have shifted to Taeguks by now.  It is also why I was asking if the person in the video was part of GM Son's school because I did not recognize that as any Taeguk or Palgue form, though I admit my memory of Palgue forms are very rusty.



GM Hwang Kee might well disagree with you. Your statement is based on the false assumption that schools/styles/kwans never fission. Or is it your assumption that these "splits" are not allowed to use the name of their source? If the last is true, then you must object to the KKW position that MDK is a part of KKW TKD.


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## dcsma (Aug 30, 2012)

Ok a little confused here. But to clarify my linage is from Chung Do Kwan, one of the five original Kwans of Tae Kwon Do. But could you please elaborate to what your are saying about CDK is not Tae Kwon Do???


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 30, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Ok a little confused here. But to clarify my linage is from Chung Do Kwan, one of the five original Kwans of Tae Kwon Do. But could you please elaborate to what your are saying about CDK is not Tae Kwon Do???



CDK the way you mean it and the way Dirty Dog means it, is Tae Kwon Do with a style heavily influenced by the teachings of the original Chung Do Kwan, before the unifications of the Kwans in the Kukkiwon. CDK themselves, to the best of my knowledge, do not put forth any curriculum except the Kukkiwon one. Because this Taekwondo is so different from KKW or ITF, people tend to not consider it TKD, but instead either Tang Soo Do or simply Chung Do Kwan. I would consider it Taekwondo, I believe Taekwondo is a broad and inclusive concept. 

When you list your Kwan, it's a good estimation of the way you currently teach. When someone like myself does, it doesn't mean a whole lot as far as style goes since I have been Kukkiwon for most of my time in Taekwondo.


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 30, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's one way to view it. Another way is that the CDK (or MDK or whatever) that is still more than just a social club is the continuation, more or less, of the original school.



I won't argue that, I only said "just have CDK roots" because the direction decided on by CDK seniors was Kukkiwon. I didn't mean to detract any authenticity from modern CDK style schools.


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## miguksaram (Aug 30, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> GM Hwang Kee might well disagree with you. Your statement is based on the false assumption that schools/styles/kwans never fission. Or is it your assumption that these "splits" are not allowed to use the name of their source? If the last is true, then you must object to the KKW position that MDK is a part of KKW TKD.


I understand what you are saying but I am not talking about GM Hwang Kee and his MDK students.  That is an entirely different issue where you have a known split where they either adhere to MDKTSD forms or MDKTKD forms (ie KKW).  My statement was entirely about CDK alone.  Each kwan have their own history.  As far as I know the only split in the the CDK is GM Son who developed his own system entirely.  While there were other CDK students who did follow Gen Choi, they were eventually transferred into ODK.  If there were other students that broke away form CDK and still claim it and do some non-KKW oriented system, I have not heard of them and would be interested to know about them.


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## dancingalone (Aug 30, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> If there were other students that broke away form CDK and still claim it and do some non-KKW oriented system, I have not heard of them and would be interested to know about them.



http://www.chungdokwanusa.com/

I have the director's book on forms, which includes many Japanese kata along with a few of the CDK's unique Kuk Mu hyung.  If you look on Youtube, you can find Master Hillson performing some forms in a non-KKW style.  He's rather good IMO if you don't mind the old ways.


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## dancingalone (Aug 30, 2012)

As for the original point of the thread, I suggest the OP hook up with John Pelligrini's Independent Taekwondo Association.  They'll certify and promote people without requiring a specific adoption of curriculum.  It makes no sense at all to me, but there it is if anyone is interested in such things.


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## Blindside (Aug 30, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> As for the original point of the thread, I suggest the OP hook up with John Pelligrini's Independent Taekwondo Association.  They'll certify and promote people without requiring a specific adoption of curriculum.  It makes no sense at all to me, but there it is if anyone is interested in such things.



Somehow an association of independent groups strikes me as funny.


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## miguksaram (Aug 30, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> http://www.chungdokwanusa.com/
> 
> I have the director's book on forms, which includes many Japanese kata along with a few of the CDK's unique Kuk Mu hyung. If you look on Youtube, you can find Master Hillson performing some forms in a non-KKW style. He's rather good IMO if you don't mind the old ways.



Right, I believe that the Kuk Mu hyung are GM Son's creation and not something that was taught by GM Lee, Won-kuk.  GM Son's group is the only splinter group of the CDK that did not keep with KKW forms, that I am aware of.


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## dancingalone (Aug 30, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Right, I believe that the Kuk Mu hyung are GM Son's creation and not something that was taught by GM Lee, Won-kuk.  GM Son's group is the only splinter group of the CDK that did not keep with KKW forms, that I am aware of.



Ah, I misread your post.  

Does Jhoon Rhee count?  Early CDK graduate that has developed his own forms and system.


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## miguksaram (Aug 30, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Ah, I misread your post.
> 
> Does Jhoon Rhee count? Early CDK graduate that has developed his own forms and system.


Nope..nope...like you said...his own forms and system.  Plus I believe he is one of those that started in CDK and then became an ODK member later on, prior to starting his own system.


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## Markku P (Aug 30, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> As for the original point of the thread, I suggest the OP hook up with John Pelligrini's Independent Taekwondo Association.  They'll certify and promote people without requiring a specific adoption of curriculum.  It makes no sense at all to me, but there it is if anyone is interested in such things.



My student got this way 1996 and I recommended him to contact Pelligrini. That time I couldn't help and he was good enough to get his 1st Dan. I think it took around 8 weeks to get Kukkiwon Certificate.


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 30, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Nope..nope...like you said...his own forms and system. Plus I believe he is one of those that started in CDK and then became an ODK member later on, prior to starting his own system.



I don't know if Jhoon Rhee ever joined the Oh Do Kwan. He didn't start calling hwat he was doing "Taekwon-Do" until Gen. Choi visited him in America, so my inclination is to say he didn't. He did join the ITF for a period of time, but then left and radically changed his style.

Pax,

Chris


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## Kinghercules (Sep 1, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> As for the original point of the thread, I suggest the OP hook up with John Pelligrini's Independent Taekwondo Association.  They'll certify and promote people without requiring a specific adoption of curriculum.  It makes no sense at all to me, but there it is if anyone is interested in such things.


Wow....this guy has a 9th Dan in Hapkido and TKD!  LOL!!
I saw on this website that said he learned Hapkido at a few seminars.
LOL!


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## Markku P (Sep 3, 2012)

Kinghercules said:


> Wow....this guy has a 9th Dan in Hapkido and TKD!  LOL!!
> I saw on this website that said he learned Hapkido at a few seminars.
> LOL!



I don't think that is totally true, although he might got his degrees quite fast but so have many others in Hapkido. Mr Pellegrini has his own TKD association and in my eyes he can do whatever he wants with it. He might have 6th or 7th Dan ( or higher ) from Kukkiwon.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 3, 2012)

If all else fails, there's always Ashida Kim waiting to promote people.


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## Kinghercules (Sep 3, 2012)

Markku P said:


> I don't think that is totally true, although he might got his degrees quite fast but so have many others in Hapkido. Mr Pellegrini has his own TKD association and in my eyes he can do whatever he wants with it. He might have 6th or 7th Dan ( or higher ) from Kukkiwon.


Yeah you can do whatever you want with your own association but how creditable are you if you only trained at seminars and claim to be a master?

Just sayin........


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## Kinghercules (Sep 3, 2012)

I think this guys best bet is to find someone or organization that you like and join in.  As others have posted before its gonna be hard to kinda just walk in off the street and asked to be tested.   After all he's only a 2nd dan.  I think he should go to a dojo and ask when they have BB class and join the school and train with them.  Explain to the instructor that you wanna expand your knowledge and that way you can get tested in the future.


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## Earl Weiss (Sep 3, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> As for the original point of the thread, I suggest the OP hook up with John Pelligrini's Independent Taekwondo Association.  They'll certify and promote people without requiring a specific adoption of curriculum.  It makes no sense at all to me, but there it is if anyone is interested in such things.



Was at a Seminar hosted by his group. During the seminar there was a break and they announced that as part of a second dan test a couple of people would do some stuff. Part of the stuff was pattern Po Eun (but the name of the pattern was not mentioned. .   Later I asked my BBS who were in attendance what they thought of the performance of Po Eun.  Their response "That was Po Eun?"
I also asked the testing candidates later what their requirement was for testing and I believe it was one pattern per dan instead of 3 typicaly used for the Chang Hon system.  So it seems they are doing (at least in some cases "TKD lite">


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## Earl Weiss (Sep 3, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Right, I believe that the Kuk Mu hyung are GM Son's creation and not something that was taught by GM Lee, Won-kuk.  GM Son's group is the only splinter group of the CDK that did not keep with KKW forms, that I am aware of.



Well, as you know it seems the CDK is now more of a fraternal group.  I know of people who are progeny of Han Cha Kyo and Nam Tae H both CDK people and ITF Pioneersi that do the Chang Hon system and consider themselves CDK. I do not know it\f they all get the Kwan system  / Kwan fratermal group dichotomy, but I have seen some of these progeny with CDK certs obtained thru GM Nam.


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## miguksaram (Sep 4, 2012)

Earl Weiss said:


> Well, as you know it seems the CDK is now more of a fraternal group. I know of people who are progeny of Han Cha Kyo and Nam Tae H both CDK people and ITF Pioneersi that do the Chang Hon system and consider themselves CDK. I do not know it\f they all get the Kwan system / Kwan fratermal group dichotomy, but I have seen some of these progeny with CDK certs obtained thru GM Nam.


Right, I remember that GM Nam was CDK originally, one of the 1st generation BB's under founder GM Lee, if I'm not mistaken.  However, I thought those that went with Gen Choi pretty much converted themselves over to ODK.  Do you know if GM Nam claims to teach CDK or just teach ITF TKD?


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