# Less Is More?  Heian Oyo



## dancingalone (Nov 8, 2012)

A friend introduced me to "Heian Oyo", a kata in his line of Shotokan where the five Heian forms have been condensed down into a single longer pattern.  Looks fun.  I found an example video on Youtube.


[yt]Ng6QLFHnmZ4[/yt]


----------



## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2012)

In Wado Ryu there a similiar kata, Kushanku, which has the movements from the Pinan katas in plus a few bits more. If you lose concentration doing it you find yourself wandering off into the original katas! 
The founder performing Kushanku


----------



## dancingalone (Nov 8, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> In Wado Ryu there a similiar kata, Kushanku, which has the movements from the Pinan katas in plus a few bits more. If you lose concentration doing it you find yourself wandering off into the original katas!
> The founder performing Kushanku



Some people argue/teach that the Pinan series were created by itosu Sensei from Kusanku.  Some others say instead they came from a lost kata called Channan. 

I've mused a time or two on these boards whether it was useful to learn the Pinan or whether students shouldn't start right off with one of the more 'advanced' kata and just make it an old friend rather than racing through a new form for each new level.  I like this 'Heian Oyo' - sometimes less is more.  Of course, my friend who showed me this kata said it was an EXTRA one they practice in addition to their Heian.  Sigh.


----------



## Flying Crane (Nov 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> sometimes less is more.



YES!!



> Of course, my friend who showed me this kata said it was an EXTRA one they practice in addition to their Heian. Sigh.


 
sounds like the lesson didn't quite sink in.


----------



## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Some people argue/teach that the Pinan series were created by itosu Sensei from Kusanku. Some others say instead they came from a lost kata called Channan.
> 
> I've mused a time or two on these boards whether it was useful to learn the Pinan or whether students shouldn't start right off with one of the more 'advanced' kata and just make it an old friend rather than racing through a new form for each new level. I like this 'Heian Oyo' - sometimes less is more. Of course, my friend who showed me this kata said it was an EXTRA one they practice in addition to their Heian. Sigh.



I suppose I was lucky in that we didn't go racing through each kata for a grading. The Pinans I feel are good katas in themselves rather than just a precursor to the advanced ones. We didn't need a kata for the first two gradings we did ( no 'double' gradings either, only two gradings a year) although we started learning the first Pinan Nidan a few weeks after starting. Previous katas learnt were always performed in gradings, with the standard having to be appropriate to the grading. I certainly appreciated learning the perhaps less 'complicated' katas first before going on to the more difficult although perhaps the most difficult kata anyone does is the very first one they learn when starting martial arts as a complete beginner!


----------



## dancingalone (Nov 8, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I suppose I was lucky in that we didn't go racing through each kata for a grading. The Pinans I feel are good katas in themselves rather than just a precursor to the advanced ones. We didn't need a kata for the first two gradings we did ( no 'double' gradings either, only two gradings a year) although we started learning the first Pinan Nidan a few weeks after starting. Previous katas learnt were always performed in gradings, with the standard having to be appropriate to the grading. I certainly appreciated learning the perhaps less 'complicated' katas first before going on to the more difficult although perhaps the most difficult kata anyone does is the very first one they learn when starting martial arts as a complete beginner!



Most karate and TKD/TSD schools here have a new form at each level.  By the time you get to black belt, you often know as many as eight or nine, counting the basic h patterns ones. I am sure every art and every school must find their own level of balance that they are comfortable with.  

I like the Pinan myself, but I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the idea that they could be dropped easily for Kusanku or this Heian Oyo altogether.  Just teach Kusanku in smaller parts and take longer if need be.  I am preaching to the choir, but it's not important to know a bunch of kata.  It's important to understand the kata you do know and be able to both explain and apply the lessons they are meant to teach at a moment's notice.


----------



## Flying Crane (Nov 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> I like the Pinan myself, but I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the idea that they could be dropped easily for Kusanku or this Heian Oyo altogether. Just teach Kusanku in smaller parts and take longer if need be. I am preaching to the choir, but it's not important to know a bunch of kata. It's important to understand the kata you do know and be able to both explain and apply the lessons they are meant to teach at a moment's notice.



In my system, there is a lot of repetition that you will find in each form.  Not much is truly "new" in the next form, it's just the same basics put together differently.  The purpose is just to broaden your vision of what is possible with the basics.  Once you have that vision, you don't really need more forms.  There are no secrets that you are missing out on, if you don't get the next form.  Arguably, if you have the vision, then the first one or two forms in our system could be all you really need, more than enough to help you develop some devastating skills.

So yeah, there's a lot more mileage out of knowing less but knowing it deeply.


----------



## Grenadier (Nov 8, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> In Wado Ryu there a similiar kata, Kushanku, which has the movements from the Pinan katas in plus a few bits more. If you lose concentration doing it you find yourself wandering off into the original katas!



Same with Shotokan, where Kusanku = Kanku Dai.  Yes, indeed, I've seen some folks go from Kanku Dai into Heian Nidan, or even Heian Yondan at times, when they experience brain farts.  

I am of the belief that when doing Heian / Pinan level kata, that the student shouldn't spend excessive amounts of time studying bunkai / oyo.  At that phase, their skills are still developing, and especially their fundamental techniques should be the main focus.  Once their fundamentals are good enough, teaching bunkai / oyo shouldn't be too tall of a task.


----------

