# Sparring with people out of art's?



## DatFlow (Jun 12, 2008)

I hang with the same few guys every day... And were a really tight nit group, that gets into something if one does... Anyways, We have decided it would be awesome if we can get some Light Contact sparring (eventually full contact) togeather and start playing around with what I know, and they don't know... Aswell as train our body's for reaction time, and  just overall betterness...

I'm the only one with martial arts expirence, now we all trust eachother and have no reason to not, if things get hard, to stop, were BEST friends, i'm not worried about the danger aspect, its just that their style is SO much different than myin it makes it hard for me... Any hints?


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## Montecarlodrag (Jun 12, 2008)

DatFlow said:


> Any hints?


 
Teach them, or even better, take them to your dojang for proper MA training.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 12, 2008)

DatFlow said:


> I hang with the same few guys every day... And were a really tight nit group, that gets into something if one does... Anyways, We have decided it would be awesome if we can get some Light Contact sparring (eventually full contact) togeather and start playing around with what I know, and they don't know... Aswell as train our body's for reaction time, and just overall betterness...
> 
> I'm the only one with martial arts expirence, now we all trust eachother and have no reason to not, if things get hard, to stop, were BEST friends, i'm not worried about the danger aspect, its just that their style is SO much different than myin it makes it hard for me... Any hints?


 
Sparring on occasion with people who don't know anything is a great idea because as often as not that's what will be coming at you on the street.

it's almost more dangerous to have to deal with someone who doesn't know anything, because by definition, you don't know what they'll do.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 12, 2008)

I agree with Andy here.  As long as things are controlled....It is best to spar with people outside your style.  It is one thing to fight someone who knows the same things, same moves, and has the same training.  Fight someone who isn't using the same playbook and you can actually test yourself.  

It is also possible that you will help improve their style by showing them things they aren't used to.  Most street fighters aren't used to a back kick....most traditional martial artists aren't used to the run and swing wildly method.  But both have to know how to defend against the other....


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## Makalakumu (Jun 12, 2008)

I've sparred with people from other arts on a regular basis.  I've also had the opportunity to "play" around with people who have no training at.  There's a big difference, as has been noted above.  The former is a lot safer.  My suggestion is that before you spar someone with no formal training, make sure you know them and trust them, talk about limits and rules, and take it easy.


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Jun 17, 2008)

This is a great topic

It has been stated in of all places, comedy, such as:

Richard Prior stated; Karate guys punch real pretty. Nice and straight. A street fighter on the other hand punches real UGLY. 

Jim Carry stated, in his role as Sensei Bob Jackson, The Former World Champion;

Like most beginners, you attacked me WRONG!!!

What these comedians were stating was right on the money. We martial artists practice looking GOOD. We have good rhythm, understand timing and distance, and we train to NOT make contact or hurt the other guy.

When we spar with those who have never trained, they dont have the same goals as we do and most often dont understand when they hit us harder than we expected them to why we get upset with them. It is like yelling at a baby for doing something that they dont know to be wrong yet.

The idea of sparring with those that do not have martial experience is a great way to develop a true ability to fight on the street because, after all, they are who you will be confronted with. 

I have a friend that is a great street fighter and all thru our school years he was the guy that took on the football team from the other school single handed and won the fight.

He use to come to my dojo from time to time and I would have him fight everyone in the dojo one on one, all out. I would explain to my students that; this is Steve the Mugger. You will not enjoy what is about to happen to you, but when it is over, you will have a much better understanding of why you came here in the first place.

I was right!!! No one ever enjoyed what Steve would do to them, but at the end, they had an entirely new and deeper understanding of ;

*WHY ARE WE TRAINING IN THIS MARTIAL ARTS STUFF?.*​

All the best,


Master Jay S. Penfil


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## MBuzzy (Jun 17, 2008)

Master Penfil,

I've had a very limited opportunity to train with you, but I'm curious how you conduct sparring in your school?  I would love to have a situation with more contact, but I understand the need to maintain some control within a school, due to liability considerations.  How do you deal with this?


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Jun 18, 2008)

It is a tight balancing act...

I no longer have everyone involved in this training. Things have changed from a legal standpoint over the years and I am not interested in loosing everything I have over these issues.

Come back in for a day or two and I will work with you. Master Dave Frizzell will be back at the end of June and we will be doing some training like this with him.

Can you make it in???


All the best,


Master Jay S. Penfil


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## morph4me (Jun 18, 2008)

DatFlow said:


> I hang with the same few guys every day... And were a really tight nit group, that gets into something if one does... Anyways, We have decided it would be awesome if we can get some Light Contact sparring (eventually full contact) togeather and start playing around with what I know, and they don't know... Aswell as train our body's for reaction time, and just overall betterness...
> 
> I'm the only one with martial arts expirence, now we all trust eachother and have no reason to not, if things get hard, to stop, were BEST friends, i'm not worried about the danger aspect, its just that their style is SO much different than myin it makes it hard for me... Any hints?


 

You're learning things in these sessions that you won't be learning in the dojo. What works and what doesn't, what you're good at and what you need to work on,  what you have to change in order to make something work, what you should be asking your instructor to cover, or to help you with. Take the opportunity to improve.  There's a saying that goes something like this "Professionals are predictable, unfortunately the world is full of amateurs." They aren't predictable, but they can teach you plenty. Take it slow and easy and enjoy it.


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## TheOriginalName (Jun 18, 2008)

What everyone has said so far is absolutely true. 

At the school i train at we have a couple of sparring classes a week - awesome stuff. The most dangerous people in the class ..... the newcomers.
Firstly they haven't learnt control yet - so your almost certainly going to get hit hard. Secondly they throw more like a street fighter rather than an MAist. 

The way i approach things - spar as many people as you can from as many different styles and backgrounds as you can. Lay down the rules and make sure you both stick to them (neither of you will learn if one of you in KOed in the first). And most importantly analise what happened. Talk to them after about what worked - what didn't work  - what had you on the back foot and what gave you an edge.

Communication is the key to learning.


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Jun 19, 2008)

morph4me said:


> "Professionals are predictable, unfortunately the world is full of amateurs." They aren't predictable, but they can teach you plenty. Take it slow and easy and enjoy it.


 
Morph4me,
This is a great statement!!!

Thank you for posting it!!!


All the best,


Master Jay S. Penfil


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 19, 2008)

I always enjoyed sparring with friends that had no training because they where so unpredictable. In class you pretty well know what is going to happen but your friends will do the most unexpected.
If they like what you do they may  some day become students of the arts, but even if they do not you still have a chance to learn from what they do.


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