# Height Issues



## Kodora (May 24, 2005)

Hello all --

 There's a wide variety of adult heights at my dojo; the highest student being at least 6'7", and the shortest at 4'10".  I myself am a 5'4" orange belt.  My question is this: 

 Some (but not all) of my instructors tend to group us for technique work according to height.  This is OK, but I invariably end up being placed with the shorter people in the class.   Should I ask for us to be mixed up more often, seeing as it's not very likely that I'll be attacked by a small-framed person like myself?  Fortunately I have my husband to practice with at home, but it'd be nice to not have to inevitably go against like-sized people at the dojo.

 I guess I can understand why it would be hard for me to perform an attack for the taller partner on certain techniques -- like, say, Clutching Feathers -- but other than that, I'm not sure why we have to line up height-wise.


 Any thoughts?



 Kodora


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## dsp921 (May 24, 2005)

I for one am against pairing people off by height or weight.  When you are first learning a technique it's fine, but you should be able to perform the technique on different body types.  If for no other reason than to figure out how you have to adapt to make things work on different size people.  Or to find out what you can't make work.  The street is no place to learn that lesson.  I'd try to be paired with as many different people as you can.  Just my thoughts....


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## psi_radar (May 24, 2005)

I agree, talk to your instructor. There's a tendency to gravitate toward familiar partners in the dojo. Your instructor should be mixing it up so that you get to work with various body types. That's what making Kenpo your own is all about. If a technique doesn't work textbook on your uke, you should be able to adjust targets to make it work, even on the really big guys, and practice this ability so that it feels natural.


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## MJS (May 24, 2005)

I agree with the last 2 posters!!!  Its good to work with people of various height and weight and you'll find that the tech. you're doing at the time may have to adapt slightly to whomever you're working with.  

Its much better to experiment in the dojo where you can afford to make a mistake rather than when your life depends on it.

Mike


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## Gemini (May 24, 2005)

I can understand his logic, because if he pairs you with someone much bigger, that means he pairs them with someone much smaller. 

  But that isn't to say I agree with it. 

 You should paired against everyone for the reasons mentioned above. Not knowing your instructor or his/her motives, I don't want to second guess, but I don't think it would be out of line for you to at least ask the question.


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## Rick Wade (May 24, 2005)

IMHO, 

    I like paring up with the same frame and size person (ideal phase) to begin with once you get the technique down you should be the point person in a technique line and then the flaws will come out.  Guys in my class range from 6-3 to our instructor that is approx 5-7.  It is amazing to see him handle some of the bigger guys.

V/R

Rick


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## searcher (May 24, 2005)

Ask if he will mix it up so you are paired with many different sizes of training partners.   If you don't get used to different sizes of attackers you will not be prepared for the streets.   Tell him you want a little variety.   Ask him/her to set up some type of rotataion for training with the other students.


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## TChase (May 24, 2005)

In my opinion it's very important to work your techniques on bigger and heavier people.  Nothing will point out bad technique faster.  Running the line is a good option for this.  If there's 10 people in class you'll do the technique 10 times, each time on a different person.  It's also a good chance to learn from the more experienced people by watching and feeling them do the technique on you.

At 5'6" and 158lbs I'm the smallest guy at the school.  The result is I can now hit much harder and I can physically move guys almost twice my size.  I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Shortay (May 26, 2005)

I definitely agree with most of the posts here.

I am a lot smaller than most everyone else in my school, and there are only one or two other girls, so I regularly have opponents much bigger and stronger than me. 

Kenpo for me is all about self-defence, and as I am far less likely to be attacked on the street by someone my size, it is much better for me to learn on much larger assailants. 

It also helps focus on technique rather than using brute force (which I don't have) in my kenpo, which in turn makes it more effective.

I definitely think, even for students who aren't small, that people should be able to train with a variety of shapes and sizes. There is no uniform attacker on the street.


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## Thesemindz (May 28, 2005)

I think another thing that needs to be considered here is the skill level of the students in question. When I'm teaching a beginner class I'm much more likely to pair students up according to weight, height, and gender. Many of the students in their first weeks of training have no experience with physical contact what so ever, can't really make the technique work against a resisting partner regardless of size, and don't have the technical knowledge to adapt the techniques to an opponent of different size anyway. Also, many women at the beginner level have many issues to deal with, including learning to recieve force safely and how to accept being physically maneuvered by an opponent. Now, once a student is past the beginner material and in the intermediate class, they should be able to be paired up with anyone. If the opponent is to big for their technique to work the same way it would on someone their size, it's a learning experience for the student, but in the beginning it would only frustrate them. By this time the students have also been sufficiently desensitized to contact and violence and they will be able to handle a greater challenge.

-Rob


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## Doc (May 29, 2005)

Shortay said:
			
		

> I definitely agree with most of the posts here.
> 
> I am a lot smaller than most everyone else in my school, and there are only one or two other girls, so I regularly have opponents much bigger and stronger than me.
> 
> ...


In the SubLevel Four Curriculum there are techniques we recognize as specific height, girth, and gender disparate by design. There is a tendancy for some to feel that everyone in class always get to practice techniques the same or similar number of times.

However a technique that by design is for a smaller person to defend against a larger person will limit the opportunity for the larger person to practice it, unless there is someone substantially larger than they available.

A good example is the initial attack in "Clutching Feathers." It is least likely that a tall statured person will find themselves "attacked" in this manner by someone substantially shorter than they are.

However the shorter, smaller, person will probably have more of a need to to practice this technique against a taller person than the other way around. Now that doesn't suggest the taller person shouldn't practice against someone their size or even slightly smaller, but students on some techniques should be assigned practice opportunities based on the likelyhood of attack based on height, girth, and/or gender disparities.

Some people are least likely to be "pushed." Some are more likely, and need the reps based on that likelyhood is another example. Also as experessed by my daughter Shortay, females, or smaller statured students should not become accustomed to working "only" with females or persons of the same size, once again based on the likelyhood or the probabilities of the "assault profile."


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## 47MartialMan (May 29, 2005)

Among our practiioners, we mix and match height and weight all of the time. It is interesting to see that not all tactics work on all individuals. Thus, the many structures/sizes of individuals allows everyone actual verstile experience.


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## Mekosho (May 29, 2005)

I don't want this to intimidate anyone...lol, but I stand at an astounding five feet two and three quarter inches...(hey, short people measure to the exact length)...

In our class, I am typically the shortest, but on ocassion, there are people less tall than me. Typically, I work out with the same individual when the lesson or technique is first taught, however, after practicing repeatedly, we usually end up in a "monkey in the middle" type of routine so as everyone gets to practice with various statures.


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## 47MartialMan (May 29, 2005)

Mekosho said:
			
		

> I don't want this to intimidate anyone...lol, but I stand at an astounding five feet two and three quarter inches...(hey, short people measure to the exact length)...
> 
> In our class, I am typically the shortest, but on ocassion, there are people less tall than me. Typically, I work out with the same individual when the lesson or technique is first taught, however, after practicing repeatedly, we usually end up in a "monkey in the middle" type of routine so as everyone gets to practice with various statures.


That is the way it sghould be. However we have a "giant" amongst us. A 6'-3" 275 lb-er. Long limbs. 

Also, we have some "bulls"/ 5'-8"...300 lb-ers. Thick guys whom look like wrestlers. (In fact one guy is a biker and ex-bike-cluber. We call him Harley Kid)

It is in every one's best interest to work out with these individuals.


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## Storm (May 29, 2005)

Mekosho said:
			
		

> In our class, I am typically the shortest, but on ocassion, there are people less tall than me. Typically, I work out with the same individual when the lesson or technique is first taught, however, after practicing repeatedly, we usually end up in a "monkey in the middle" type of routine so as everyone gets to practice with various statures.



When we pair up we start with one person then after a few minutes we have to change to someone else and are not allowed to pair up with the same person twice.This gives you the chance of working with all sizes shapes and grades.  We also do it the way you have mentioned.

When first starting out especially with women - I think it is less intimidating if they are paired up with someone of similar build etc.

I do disagree with the fact that some people feel they will never be attacked by someone shorter than themselves.  There are alot of crazy drugged up people out there with the small mans syndrome who wouldnt hesitate to pick on someone larger than themselves and you need to be able to deal with that as well.

I do feel sorry for the taller people when they have to work with some smaller than themselves and it doesnt feel good when you know that they are hating every minute of it. But thats how it is, the more variety you  have the better off you will be in the long run.


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## Doc (May 30, 2005)

Storm said:
			
		

> I do disagree with the fact that some people feel they will never be attacked by someone shorter than themselves.  There are alot of crazy drugged up people out there with the small mans syndrome who wouldnt hesitate to pick on someone larger than themselves and you need to be able to deal with that as well.


I don't believe anyone said they will never be attacked by someone smaller. I was speaking in terms of "probabilities." Yes there are some "... crazy drugged up people out there..." however most people never even have a physical fight, let alone a confrontation with the described individual you speak of. Therefore precious preparation time should be spent primarily on the most likely scenarios, followed by the least likely. It is a teachers responsibility to train a student for the most likely set of events to occur, as oppposed to preparing for that "ninja attack" that is due any moment now.


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## Storm (May 30, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> It is a teachers responsibility to train a student for the most likely set of events to occur, as oppposed to preparing for that "ninja attack" that is due any moment now.



Sorry I was just being the devils advocate. I agree with what you said totally.

Of course the reversed roles of being attacked by a shorter person are less likely, I was just trying to say dont automatically dismiss the idea of it happening, so if you are paired up with a shorter person dont get too discouraged as it may prove benefical someday.

 :whip:


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## Doc (May 30, 2005)

Storm said:
			
		

> Sorry I was just being the devils advocate. I agree with what you said totally.
> 
> Of course the reversed roles of being attacked by a shorter person are less likely, I was just trying to say dont automatically dismiss the idea of it happening, so if you are paired up with a shorter person dont get too discouraged as it may prove benefical someday.
> 
> :whip:


And I absolutely agree with you - you devils advocate you.


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

Let any height, weight, size, or gender, compete/practice against any other.

It will only develop each practitioner better.


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