# Anyone heard of GM Adrian Roman?



## masherdong

How is he in the area of EPAK?  I have his distant learning program and am wondering if it is worthwhile.


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## KenpoTess

Decide  for yourself ...

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9392&highlight=Adrian+Roman


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## TChase

masherdong said:
			
		

> How is he in the area of EPAK? I have his distant learning program and am wondering if it is worthwhile.


He sells black belts and black belt certificates by mail order.  Stay away.


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## Seabrook

TChase said:
			
		

> He sells black belts and black belt certificates by mail order. Stay away.


No experience needed. Just pay a lump sum and you get a black belt certificate from him. He's on ebay all of the time. Where's the integrity?

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Mark Weiser

I think I have looked at just about every Kenpo Home Study/Distance program there is in the USA lol. 

The best distance program is one with support, testing program that has been proven, Testing Requirements with a partner, One where the student does not pass the first time due to corrections needed, An Instructor that encourages and accepts distance students at his or her studio for training once a month if possible, Black Belt Testing is required to be in person and it takes several days to complete, The Instructor has a good reputation within the Kenpo Community. 

Now with all these things said and done search high and low ask lots of questions and ask questions here on this site about Instructors and his or her history and reputation. I have learned a lot here so should you.


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## masherdong

Well, damn!  I wish I knew of this site before I bought his program!  I think I will stick with Sifu Ibrao's Jun Bao system.


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## Blindside

Have you considered a live instructor?

Lamont


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## stoneheart

masherdong said:
			
		

> Well, damn! I wish I knew of this site before I bought his program! I think I will stick with Sifu Ibrao's Jun Bao system.


 The black belt stuff aside, how good are Mr. Roman's videos?  If you're merely using them as a reference guide, they might be as good as anything else out there.   Now if you're really trying to test for a black belt ranking, let's be frank... There is NO distance learning program out there in ANY martial art system that will not draw some second glances from sceptics.   So why worry about it?  Mr. Ibrao's name may not draw the same hackles as Mr. Roman's, but so what?  In the end, you're still getting a video black belt.

 I will say that the price Mr. Roman charges in his non-ebay ads is a bit high, though.  You might as well stick with Larry Tatum material if you have $1000 to spend.  No one questions the authenticity of the kenpo on Mr. Tatum's videos.


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## masherdong

> Have you considered a live instructor?


Yes, but with my school schedule, it is difficult to find time to go to the studios.  There are not that many Kenpo schools here in Houston with the exception of Terry Mccord, Jason Bugg, and James Smith.  I have yet to make contact with either of them.  I really need too.


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## Mark Weiser

Masher that is three more schools than I have in my hometown. You are blessed and get to one of them asap lol.


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## masherdong

No doubt!  Trying to contact them.


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## phlaw

Go to  http://www.centuryma.com  click on "media" then click on "Karate"  Larry Tatum's "When Kenpo Strikes" series is now priced at $9.99 for VHS or DVD, you can not beat this price, I just ordered all 23 DVDs.


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## masherdong

Hmm, I will have to check those out.


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## donald

Having purchased one of these in the past. I can tell you that they are a help to more advanced practioners, but if your looking to learn the techs., no. I picked up Mr.Tabatabai's tapes(on dvd), and they're pretty good. I am not sure they would be as much of a benefit to a neophyte kenpoist. As they are to someone who would say be looking more for reference material. For me they have been pretty good at jaring loose the rust. I think he does a fairly good job of pointing out the basic points of the tchs., and forms. The instruction is fairly fast in presentation. Although he does alot of slow mo repeats of the techs/forms at full speed. I think the time would have been better spent. If he would have slowed down the instructional portions. Again though, for a experienced kenpoist. These are decent reference tapes. My biggest disapointment with these dvds. Would be, that I thought that being on dvd they would have a menu of techniques on each one for quick reference, but in the words of the late Mr.Belushi. But nnnooooooooooooo.
Hope this helps with your search.
By His Grace 1st John 1:9


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## masherdong

Yeah, I have Mr. Tabatabai's collection of tapes up to 2nd black.  I think that the pace is too fast for noobs.  Which is why I am trying to find a live instructor.


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## mjdeslon

Quite simply put stay away from this man's program. He is the biggest "McDojo" I have ever came across. I actually bought his "DVD" set, which is a collection of home made VHS tapes encoded to DVD, very poor. Go with Mohammad Tabatthi (spelling) or Larry Tatum for good quality Kenpo Material. You can get both of these through century for $10/dvd.

Michael Deslongchamps
http://warriorscholar.madpage.com


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## dianhsuhe

But Roman is a 29th degree, that is MUCH higher than tatum and others...


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## Doc

masherdong said:
			
		

> How is he in the area of EPAK?  I have his distant learning program and am wondering if it is worthwhile.


Perhaps you should have inquired BEFORE you acquired the program. Just a thought sir.


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## Kwiter

Adrian Roman is in the Black Belt Hall of Fame and high ranked in Ed Parkers American Kenpo, he also has his own system where he's SUPER High Ranked.

Alot of folks here are down on Distance Learning, I haven't made up my mind yet as the only one of Adrian Romans Videos I've seen is the Forms Video but I thought it useful for my girls who are training locally in an Amerikick

Many say it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn via Video. I'm not so sure myself as I've learned many things this way but MA is not one of them and I have NOT seen the Videos as yet. I just ordered Adrian Roman's completete system, for $89 on Ebay it's a bargain, highly unlikely I'd have bought for $995 and some of his prices on his website are truly HIGH!!!!! As someone mentioned $28,000 for DVD Set and CD with Manuals and  Certificatation and ability to use Adrian Roman's Kenpo Name I think it was.

I still think that even if you only learn 20% of what the Videos teach, thats better than learning 100% of NOTHING as some folks say theres a fair number of techniques that APPEAR different than what they actually are. I may have a complete change of heart after seeing the "Belt" Videos tho I found the forms well done and fairly easy to follow. I'm no superman just a Kanonhwarori Kahnwawakero:non...silly person from Kahnawake(near the Rapids)

Skennen Peace.


Your mileage may vary.


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## Doc

Kwiter said:
			
		

> Adrian Roman is in the Black Belt Hall of Fame and high ranked in Ed Parkers American Kenpo, he also has his own system where he's SUPER High Ranked.


He is in *A* Black Belt Hall of Fame. There is no *THE* Hall of Fame. They happen to be  a dime a dozen these days


> Many say it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn via Video. I'm not so sure myself as I've learned many things this way but MA is not one of them and I have NOT seen the Videos as yet.


Would you bet your life on it?


> I still think that even if you only learn 20% of what the Videos teach, thats better than learning 100% of NOTHING ...


I tend to disagree. I think most would be better off using their own survival instincts over attempting a nebulous 'technique' they watched on a tape, and tried to learn.


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## Flying Crane

Kwiter said:
			
		

> Adrian Roman is in the Black Belt Hall of Fame and high ranked in Ed Parkers American Kenpo, he also has his own system where he's SUPER High Ranked.


 
I have not met Mr. Roman so I cannot comment about his skills.  For my part, if he claims to be highly skilled I am willing to accept that and not argue the point until I meet him and get a chance to judge for myself.

However, lots of people hold high rank in Mr. Parker's kenpo.  Many of them obtained the rank thru dubious means such as self-promoting, or creating an organization with like-minded friends of equal rank who then promote each other.  I am sure DOC could elaborate much more fully about unfortunate reality.

When you have your own system that you created, you can give yourself whatever rank you wish.  But it really doesn't mean anything at all.  There are no legitimate, disinterested third-party ranking boards to bestow this kind of rank on someone.  Literally, he just gave himself whatever rank he wanted and nobody can verify, support, or argue with that.  In my opinion, that makes it extremely suspect and makes someone look like a con artist and a fool.

Personally, I tend to stay away from the high ranking people and those who like to use fancy titles like Grandmaster or Great Grandmaster, or Senior Grandmaster, or Senior Professor, etc.  While they may have some high level skills, I think the high rank and fancy titles indicate an ego issue that I am not interested in getting into the middle of.


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## Michael Billings

My teacher does know him, being from the same area of Texas.  He is not thought highly of by many.

Please note, I seldom, if ever, speak badly of people.  In this particular case I am trying to make certain no one gets taken advantage of.

-Michael


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## Jonathan Randall

mjdeslon said:
			
		

> Quite simply put stay away from this man's program. He is the biggest "McDojo" I have ever came across. I actually bought his "DVD" set, which is a collection of home made VHS tapes encoded to DVD, very poor. Go with Mohammad Tabatthi (spelling) or Larry Tatum for good quality Kenpo Material. You can get both of these through century for $10/dvd.
> 
> Michael Deslongchamps
> http://warriorscholar.madpage.com


 
Good advice about the Century DVD's and *WELCOME TO MARTIAL TALK!* I hope you'll continue posting here.

Personally, I would pass on Mr. Romans programs or anything else to do with his organization. Just my personal opinion.


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## Hand Sword

I'm sure he knows his stuff, but, to give a BB and Diploma out with a purchased system, not good. But, I guess he's laughing all the way to the bank. Ching! Ching!


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## Kwiter

Would I bet my life on it.........does anyone read what others write before they hit reply?
I said that I bought this as an aid for my daughters who train at a local dojo, some might call it a McDojo as it's a Franchise.

I'd say this is a case of semantics, buy the system and you become a BB,
thats utter nonsense just like thinking that going to a School you'll automatically become a BB after some arbitrary length of time.

Back to the bet my life on it, I wouldn't bet my life on ANY MA training , seen too many folks who were training at Brick and Mortar schools get turned into bloody messes, I myself in my younger days have turned a few Martial Artists into bloody messes, of course I don't believe for a mement I'm invinceable just that not every person training in MA wether at a school or via Video or over the Internet will actually be able to use it when the time comes, same with alot of folks who own firearms. 

Seems like they get the Deer in the headlights syndrome and freeze.


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## Doc

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> I have not met Mr. Roman so I cannot comment about his skills.  For my part, if he claims to be highly skilled I am willing to accept that and not argue the point until I meet him and get a chance to judge for myself.
> 
> However, lots of people hold high rank in Mr. Parker's kenpo.  Many of them obtained the rank thru dubious means such as self-promoting, or creating an organization with like-minded friends of equal rank who then promote each other.  I am sure DOC could elaborate much more fully about unfortunate reality.
> 
> When you have your own system that you created, you can give yourself whatever rank you wish.  But it really doesn't mean anything at all.  There are no legitimate, disinterested third-party ranking boards to bestow this kind of rank on someone.  Literally, he just gave himself whatever rank he wanted and nobody can verify, support, or argue with that.  In my opinion, that makes it extremely suspect and makes someone look like a con artist and a fool.
> 
> Personally, I tend to stay away from the high ranking people and those who like to use fancy titles like Grandmaster or Great Grandmaster, or Senior Grandmaster, or Senior Professor, etc.  While they may have some high level skills, I think the high rank and fancy titles indicate an ego issue that I am not interested in getting into the middle of.


I don't know him and therefore have no idea where his skill, if any comes from, or if it even exists. I can however comment on the selling of belts and  rank. It has scam wrtiiten all over it, and I tend to stay away from anyone ranked higher than me - if you get my drift.


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## AvPKenpo

After googling gm Adrain Roman, I found this near the bottom of his home page and I believe it speaks for itself.



The program are listed below and they include the teaching certificate when you order. 
*7th  degree (Warrior) Diploma and school franchise is available $28,000.  *
*5th degree Diploma with school consideration is $15,000. *
*3rd degree Diploma with  club membership is $6,000. *
*1st degree Diploma for individual membership is $2,800. *
All program  includes DVD or VHS tapes, manuals, black belt and certification and some personal instruction. To order  by U.S. Postal money order  cashier check to Adrian Roman 3434 Briaroaks Drive, Garland, TX 75044 or call to process your order by Master Card or Visa or e-mail your card information.​


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## Drac

For more on this topic do an MT search for 29th Degree..


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## Flying Crane

Doc said:
			
		

> I don't know him and therefore have no idea where his skill, if any comes from, or if it even exists. I can however comment on the selling of belts and rank. It has scam wrtiiten all over it, and I tend to stay away from anyone ranked higher than me - if you get my drift.


 
Hi Doc,

I didn't mean to imply that you knew Mr. Roman, or knew how he received whatever Kenpo rank he might claim.  Just figured you'd have a good sense of the self-promoting that goes on in general, that's all.


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## Seabrook

Kwiter said:
			
		

> Adrian Roman is in the Black Belt Hall of Fame and high ranked in Ed Parkers American Kenpo, he also has his own system where he's SUPER High Ranked.


 
Adrian Roman is constantly in Black Belt Magazine with an ad that says you can receive your black belt TODAY!

How can his American Kenpo teaching and skills be taken seriously???


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

I absolutely believe that you would be better off buying an old late-1950's judo book (price, $9.95) and working the stuff you read on a tree trunk (price, free...provided by nature), then purchasing yourself a black belt (price, $20.00 & up, depending on manufacturer & quality) then you would be to waste your cash on Adrian Roman's stuff.

You would be better prepared to fight based on the tree trunk than you would by Romans material; you would possess about as deep an understanding of the martial arts (perhaps even more from the tree trunk), and will have kept the vast majority of your cash in your wallet.

A trade: Blood, for skill. No blood, no skill. Roman's stuff is the epitome of how and why so many martial artists out there can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a buck knife.

Regards,

Dave


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## Doc

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Hi Doc,
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that you knew Mr. Roman, or knew how he received whatever Kenpo rank he might claim.  Just figured you'd have a good sense of the self-promoting that goes on in general, that's all.


I know, don't sweat it.


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## Flying Crane

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> I absolutely believe that you would be better off buying an old late-1950's judo book (price, $9.95) and working the stuff you read on a tree trunk (price, free...provided by nature), then purchasing yourself a black belt (price, $20.00 & up, depending on manufacturer & quality) then you would be to waste your cash on Adrian Roman's stuff.
> 
> You would be better prepared to fight based on the tree trunk than you would by Romans material; you would possess about as deep an understanding of the martial arts (perhaps even more from the tree trunk), and will have kept the vast majority of your cash in your wallet.
> 
> A trade: Blood, for skill. No blood, no skill. Roman's stuff is the epitome of how and why so many martial artists out there can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a buck knife.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave


 
Just curious to know if you have seen his videos.


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## Kenpodoc

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Just curious to know if you have seen his videos.


From what I've seen, there are better available for less money.

Jeff


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## Kwiter

Pardon, yes he is in A BB Hall of Fame not THE, I'm pretty sure it's Black Belt Magazine Hall of Fame and again I say I'm not so naive to think that it may be due to his advertising revenues but may not be. 

I have to agree with the post about buying the Franchise and opening a school wether you learned anything or not. I'm not insane after all ;-)
Granted might find someone doing just that but doubt they'd last long in business.

After I view the videos I will post my thoughts, I'm optimistic that they are not useless pieces of plastic not sure if you could learn enough to really be considered a BB and as ever I won't be pulling my girls from their school even if I think they are the best things since sliced bread ;-)

If I find them to be crap the CD with the manuals sells on Arnis site for about 60% of what I'm paying for the whole kit and kaboodle at $89 so it's not a tragedy. The forms video I already have is fine IMO so say $10 for that so I'm only out a few $$$ really.

the ebay auction prices are reasonable those on the website I'd never consider paying espescially when places like Century Fitness have similar Videos for $9.99 each. 

Skennen Peace


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Just curious to know if you have seen his videos.


 
Parts. I was too embarrassed for his 2 red bars to continue watching. Unlike others who have good skills/bad videos, Mr. Roman's history and motion decry little to no value. Looks like he learned from someone elses video, then kinda forgot the techniques,  and is trying to remember them as he goes along.


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## Michael Billings

*[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]To hear is to doubt, to see is to be deceived, but to feel is to believe.

and

[/SIZE][/FONT]**[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]One becomes great when he comes to the realization that what he knows is very little.

I am not a big proponent of The Chief.  I understand he is a bona fide EP Black Belt, but his rank, marketing, and ethics are all questionable regardless of what you read on his web site.

-Michael
[/SIZE][/FONT]*


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> *[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]To hear is to doubt, to see is to be deceived, but to feel is to believe.[/SIZE][/FONT]*[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]
> 
> *and*
> 
> [/SIZE][/FONT]*[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]One becomes great when he comes to the realization that what he knows is very little.[/SIZE][/FONT]*[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]
> 
> *I am not a big proponent of The Chief. I understand he is a bona fide EP Black Belt, but his rank, marketing, and ethics are all questionable regardless of what you read on his web site.*
> 
> *-Michael*
> [/SIZE][/FONT]


 
I would say this is big, considering I regard Mr. Billings as one of those gentlemen who wouldn't say "dooky" if he had a mouthful.


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## TChase

Just go to http://ikenpo.com/at_the_movies_kenpo_pg_2.html and watch "Chief" Romans video clip.  I'd say that speaks for itself.


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## Wild Bill

That is an awsome website.  I have never seen Mr. Parker move before.


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## masherdong

Well, I am thankful that I had a chance to get everyone's feedback.  I still have the dvd's but use them as a reference guide.  I contacted Terry McCord back in July and I have been with him since August.  I am so lucky to have found an instructor that teaches kenpo in Houston.  Houston is mostly a TKD city.  I have enjoyed the live instruction and I am happy to be back into something that I have had a passion for in my earlier years.  Thank everyone for their guidance.


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## James Kovacich

TChase said:
			
		

> Just go to http://ikenpo.com/at_the_movies_kenpo_pg_2.html and watch "Chief" Romans video clip. I'd say that speaks for itself.


Good site but I found the Kali Kempo clip to be interesting but dangerous. 

I think some of the technique could be valuable for attribute training but somewhat dangerous in the sense that having a knife wielder with intent to cut me and successfully intercepting his weapon hand I'm not going to let it go free in favor of a strike. 

And manuevering the body into the direction of the blade to block the weapon arm with the shoulder, I don't think so. I saw some Kali in there but think that when redirecting the weapon hand, the weapon hand needs to be dealt with first before following up with the finish technique. He did do that a bit but overall I saw someone that was likely to get cut.

Clips are misleading sometimes and the clip probably wasn't a good expression of his technique.


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## Kwiter

I've watched all the videos to Brown. I see no gaping flaws in his technique, I saw a few memory lapses of what technique he was going to do but find little to fault with that as I'd say the Videos were likely recorded over only a few days and Adrian Roman isn't the youngest fella out there ;-)

Nia:wen Thank you for the link to the clips.

Are Adrian Roman's DVD's the Best there is? I can't say, I haven't seen every Kenpo DVD out there. I can say that I think you will get something from them. Can't say wether YOU will learn anything or not as theres some folks that no matter how many times an instructor shows them something and corrects them they still do it their way! There's also folks that show them once and they can do it no problem. EVERYONE is different in learning ability and everyone can learn from someone else no matter what level they are at.

Skennen Peace.


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## Doc

Kwiter said:
			
		

> I've watched all the videos to Brown. I see no gaping flaws in his technique,


That just may say as much about where you are and your personal impression and knowledge of the art as much as his. Nevertheless, if that is the case, enjoy and good luck.


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## Kenpobuff

Doc said:
			
		

> That just may say as much about where you are and your personal impression and knowledge of the art as much as his. Nevertheless, if that is the case, enjoy and good luck.


 
Always "On Point" Doc!  My thoughts exactly.

Steve


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## Doc

Kenpobuff said:
			
		

> Always "On Point" Doc!  My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Steve


The man speaks for himself sir.


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## Kenpsy7

I have reviewed several of his instructional dvd's. The material is sound. The terchniques that he presents are authentic Kenpo. I was originally promoted to Kenpo Black belt by one of Grandmaster Parkers 1st  generation black belts  (Asa Rainey 8the Kenpo black) with whom I trained for years and years (Just had a workout with him this week). While the techniques and forms that were taught to Mr. Rainey by Mr. Parker and others are stylistically different (Mr. Parker taught different people differently) the Kenpo presented by Mr. Roman is still valid Kenpo in form and substance. I don't know anything about selling black belts, but you can go to any martial arts supply store and buy one for $3.99. Wearing a belt and earning a belt are two different things. Earning a belt and being a belt are again (in many cases), two different things. I operate a small Kenpo school (approx 40 students), not everyone has the oppertunity to live where a legitimate kenpo school is located...If a student is willing to work hard and study consistantly, then I suppose video training is better than nothing. There is no real substitute for a true in person TEACHER, but I have seen alot of Kenpoists taught by instructors who were truly lacking in their knowledge and ability. Again, in my humble opinion, these training tapes are helpful, and there is motion and information that is beneficial to kenpoists of all levels in Mr. Romans tapes.


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## Doc

Kenpsy7 said:
			
		

> I have reviewed several of his instructional dvd's. The material is sound. The terchniques that he presents are authentic Kenpo. I was originally promoted to Kenpo Black belt by one of Grandmaster Parkers 1st  generation black belts  (Asa Rainey 8the Kenpo black) with whom I trained for years and years (Just had a workout with him this week). While the techniques and forms that were taught to Mr. Rainey by Mr. Parker and others are stylistically different (Mr. Parker taught different people differently) the Kenpo presented by Mr. Roman is still valid Kenpo in form and substance. I don't know anything about selling black belts, but you can go to any martial arts supply store and buy one for $3.99. Wearing a belt and earning a belt are two different things. Earning a belt and being a belt are again (in many cases), two different things. I operate a small Kenpo school (approx 40 students), not everyone has the oppertunity to live where a legitimate kenpo school is located...If a student is willing to work hard and study consistantly, then I suppose video training is better than nothing. There is no real substitute for a true in person TEACHER, but I have seen alot of Kenpoists taught by instructors who were truly lacking in their knowledge and ability. Again, in my humble opinion, these training tapes are helpful, and there is motion and information that is beneficial to kenpoists of all levels in Mr. Romans tapes.


Could you PM me some contact info for AC please?


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## Kenpsy7

Doc said:
			
		

> Could you PM me some contact info for AC please?


Doc...This forum is new to me and I'm not quite sure how it works.. (sending private messages) If you would like to give your contact info to me I will forward it to Mr. Rainey (A.C.). Forgive me, but I don't kwow who you are from your user name and Mr. Rainey is a very privacy oriented individual. Thanks Kenpsy7


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## Doc

Kenpsy7 said:
			
		

> Doc...This forum is new to me and I'm not quite sure how it works.. (sending private messages) If you would like to give your contact info to me I will forward it to Mr. Rainey (A.C.). Forgive me, but I don't kwow who you are from your user name and Mr. Rainey is a very privacy oriented individual. Thanks Kenpsy7


Click on the username of anyone you would like to contact, and go to their public profile. You will see a link to send a 'private message.' My email is chapel@SL-4Kenpo.com or chapel@martialscience.org

Tell A.C. his old instructor Ron Chapél would like to get in touch.


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## Brother John

Kwiter said:


> I just ordered Adrian Roman's completete system, for $89 on Ebay it's a bargain.


((just browsing through OLD posts, but I HAD to comment))

$89.00?????

You paid about $88.95 TOO MUCH......

Unless they're on VHS and you can record your favorite TV shows over them. In that case, you only paid about $84.00 too much!!

Your Brother
John


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## Karatedrifter7

My philosphy is everything out there, has a pro and a con value. Ive heard of him, and he teaches  Native Amercian Knife fighting techniques. I dont know where else you can get that? So why not? Not everybody lives in a town where they have found an instructor they like. So do the Dvd course. You could probably get private lessons from Adrian later on, if you're willing to travel.


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## Brother John

Karatedrifter7 said:


> My philosphy is everything out there, has a pro and a con value. Ive heard of him, and he teaches Native Amercian Knife fighting techniques. I dont know where else you can get that? So why not? Not everybody lives in a town where they have found an instructor they like. So do the Dvd course. You could probably get private lessons from Adrian later on, if you're willing to travel.


 
I'm not against video trainging at all. 
But...there are MUCH MUCH more reputable Kenpoists out there with MUCH MUCH MUCH better video training and MUCH lower rates!!!!!
Seriously!

Also: His "Native American Knife fighting techniques"....
aren't something handed down w/in the Native American culture or anything.
They begin with HIM.....a Native American.....and that's the only thing that makes them Native American. 
That and he tends to wear hide and feathers while demonstrating it.
:uhyeah:

Your Brother
John


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## RevIV

If you could give us leads on more reputable kenpoists and how to find their dvd's i would appreciate it.  you can PM me or post it here.  I actually have GM Roman's dvd's and enjoyed them a lot.  More for the fact that he seems to be a funny guy teaching the techniques.. i think at one point during the video's he says "im getting old and its hot a need a cold one. be right back."  I'm sorry but thats just darn right funny, takes the edge off of it.  Some people are way to serious.  I am being sincere though, i love watching other people's interpretations of techniques.
Jesse



Brother John said:


> I'm not against video trainging at all.
> But...there are MUCH MUCH more reputable Kenpoists out there with MUCH MUCH MUCH better video training and MUCH lower rates!!!!!
> Seriously!
> 
> Also: His "Native American Knife fighting techniques"....
> aren't something handed down w/in the Native American culture or anything.
> They begin with HIM.....a Native American.....and that's the only thing that makes them Native American.
> That and he tends to wear hide and feathers while demonstrating it.
> :uhyeah:
> 
> Your Brother
> John


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## Gentle Fist

You can learn more on youtube I suppose.


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## masherdong

> If you could give us leads on more reputable kenpoists and how to find their dvd's i would appreciate it.



Larry Tatum
Jeff Speakman
Mohammad Tabatahi (sp?)

those are just a few.  you can check their websites for more info.


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## Blindside

RevIV said:


> If you could give us leads on more reputable kenpoists and how to find their dvd's i would appreciate it. you can PM me or post it here.


 
Huk Planas

Also, I happen to really like where Zach Whitson is going with his Kenpo Counterpoint training method, but you need to learn the base techniques first.

Lamont


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## masherdong

I found this on Roman's website.  He is responding to what has been said about him and his Distance Learning Program:​

*Kenpo Distance Learning and Insight*​ 
I Hope this will answer some of your  question about me and give you a little more insight. When I started offering  the Distance Learning Program a few years ago I knew it might stir up a little  conservancy.  First I did it for the money (Parker told me so, Ill get to  that story later) and second, I did it to get Parkers sophisticated material  out to students who would otherwise might chose to attend the local TKD's  school. Beginning in the 50s the Asians would get on the plane as 1st  degrees to fly to the U.S. and get off the plane 5th, 6th,  and 7th  degrees rank. Since that time the Japanese and Koreans system have prostituted  the martial arts world by putting out cookies cutter black belt in there  commercial school. Ive seen my share of 6 years old receiving there Black Belt.  

One of your members asked wheres the  integrity Im just attempting to counter this action. I choose to believe those  students who watch and learn American Kenpo by DVDs can be better prepared and no worse off than  someone going to the local TKD's  school. I trained up to brown belt in one  of theres school before I had enough of it and moved on to American Kenpo. I  grew up fighting in the streets and I knew their system was embryonic at best  and there material would not transform to the street for self-defense. I will  agree with all of you that learning from a qualified Kenpo black belt instructor  in a school is the best option. But for those students in town and cities where  no Kenpo schools are available my American Kenpo DVDs program is the next best  thing. For the most part I have produced some great student via this method and  some I felt that they were not watching the same tape.  You cant expect 100 %  success even in a school situation.

On occasions I give a certificates with this program and  for those who look down at this method and in most cases they are underlings  with little or no training, let me say this. If any Black Belt or Master is  threatening by someone who received his or hers certificate via Distant Learning  Programs, then they are not secure in there own mind about who they are. No  matter where or how you received your black belt you still have to back it up by  performance of the material. When I ran a school in Dallas and black belts came  by to train with me I never asked to see their diploma. I would just put him on  the floor and look at their performance. Within a minute I could tell if his  training was sound or not. I would say one of two things, good work, whos is  your instructor or well we got a little work to do. Bottom line most everyone  pays for there belt by paying tuition for monthly fees to your instructor and  school.  
*More to follow.*


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## Sifu Lazaro Bueno

I am a black belt under Mr. Adrian Roman...I can assure you his Kenpo is ligit and authentic.He does offer his course on sale and also options to pay for testing fees but does not give away black belts. He is a great man and well respected teacher..please do your home work before criticizing his organization. He is one of the only teachers around teaching Kenpo the way Mr. Parker wanted and described in his books.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Sifu Lazaro Bueno said:


> I am a black belt under Mr. Adrian Roman...I can assure you his Kenpo is ligit and authentic.He does offer his course on sale and also options to pay for testing fees but does not give away black belts. He is a great man and well respected teacher..please do your home work before criticizing his organization. He is one of the only teachers around teaching Kenpo the way Mr. Parker wanted and described in his books.


 
:BSmeter:


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## elder999

Sifu Lazaro Bueno said:


> ...I can assure you his Kenpo is ligit and authentic..


 
As my old physics prof. used to say, _compared to *what?*_


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## Ray

elder999 said:


> As my old physics prof. used to say, _compared to *what?*_


Better check with your old English prof...the words legit and authentic are not superlatives and not comparative terms.  Better, best, good, colder, hotter, etc.  "Legit" and "authentic" are boolean (true or false)...

Unless, of course, you mean it like that darned Schrodinger's Cat paradox...


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## arnisador

Eh, "authentic" here presupposes that we all agree on who the authority we're comparing against is...that ain't so clear. Same with "legitimate"...I've seen just about every Kenpo org. in existence accused of straying from the True Faith on this board. So...I think the question is fair: When you say someone is a heathen, I need to know who you think God is to judge that.


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## Ray

arnisador said:


> Eh, "authentic" here presupposes that we all agree on who the authority we're comparing against is...that ain't so clear. Same with "legitimate"...I've seen just about every Kenpo org. in existence accused of straying from the True Faith on this board. So...I think the question is fair: When you say someone is a heathen, I need to know who you think God is to judge that.


You might be right.  I don't know Roman...have only seen some unimpressive video and eyebrow raising advertisements for stuff...I'm thinking he'd not be my first choice and maybe not even on my list of choices.

As for my rant about the words used & his physics prof, it was a cheap attempt at getting a laugh.


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## Wild Bill

I have seen worse.  I have also seen much much better.





 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftw-zG_oYPk


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## Sifu Lazaro Bueno

It is evident that the majority of people on this blog are better at english than martial arts. Please stick to grammer and leave the martial arts alone.


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## elder999

Sifu Lazaro Bueno said:


> It is evident that the majority of people on this blog are better at english than martial arts. Please stick to grammer and leave the martial arts alone.


 
Well, no, what's evident is that the majority of the people on this _forum_ *are better at english than you are. :lol:*

While I can pride myself on my _gramm*ar*_, I'm no slouch at martial arts-even American Kenpo, once upon a time, anyway ....I won't even get into the people who've posted on this forum and _this very thread_ who exceed me in attainment and ability in that regard.

I will say, though, that Adrian Roman's videos are one reason why I usually won't judge someone's ability from video...I refuse to believe that anyone actually has such......._delusions of competence_ as to think that those videos are worth what he's charging, never mind the whole "remote black belt testing" _without testing_ thing.......

.....as for the whole "Native American Martial Arts" angle, it's extremely distasteful, to the point where I just :barf:


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## yorkshirelad

elder999 said:


> .....as for the whole "Native American Martial Arts" angle, it's extremely distasteful, to the point where I just :barf:


 Not so fast Elder o' mine. I'm starting a British themed Kenpo Association, where we all where tights like Robin Hood and yomp in the forest with our quarter staffs. After spending $900 on my DVDs I give you an 'official' knighthood and ordain you into the 'order of the desperate Pillock'.:rofl:


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

Sifu Lazaro Bueno said:


> I am a black belt under Mr. Adrian Roman...I can assure you his Kenpo is ligit and authentic.He does offer his course on sale and also options to pay for testing fees but does not give away black belts. He is a great man and well respected teacher..please do your home work before criticizing his organization. He is one of the only teachers around teaching Kenpo the way Mr. Parker wanted and described in his books.


 
The crap I have seen Mr. Roman spew off as kenpo is among the worse kenpo I have ever seen. His BS about his competency in the art as a practitioner, as a senior, and as a professor, are unparalleled...nobody I can think of is as delusional as he is, while at the same time remaining quite as incompetent, and owning such a deep deficit of understanding with such pomp and ritual. And considering I think 9 out of 10 professed kenpo professors are full of horse crap, that's pretty bad.

He's a sellout. A huckster. Making his house payments on the backs of unsuspecting wannabes who buy into his BS because they simply don't know any better. I have friends and associates who think not as poorly of him as I do...lemme clarify; they don't think his tapes are the worse recorded kenpo representations out there. That's them. I think they are awful. I think he has turned a handful of truths into a truckload of lies, and used them to line his pocketbook at the cost of the unsuspecting and uninformed.

To make it worse, fanboys such as yourself think he da bomb, because you don't know any better. Stop drinking the laughable goofballs punch, find a good kenpo instructor somewhere to train with, and stop passing on the disease. 

So...have I left any room for doubt about how I feel toward this fellow, and the ******** he's selling as "kenpo"?


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## yorkshirelad

I actually get a kick out of Martial arts instructional DVDs. I don't for a second think that I have the ability to learn anything of TRUE value from them, but I use them mostly for inspiration. Larry Tatum and David German's DVDs are excellent to get me in the mood for training if ever I feel lethargic.
I do have a problem with Roman and his ilk. To charge $900 for the DVDs in question and to include a BB certificate with them is undeniably playing on the vanities of the gullible.
His business practices are also demeaning to the legacy of Mr Parker. I've used metaphors before about people like him that got me into trouble, so this time i'll keep it civilized and say that using the phrase "10th Degree Black Belt under Ed Parker" in his advertisements and "[Roman] teaches the art how Mr Parker wanted it taught." is not only misleading, but also damaging to the art as a whole.  
Lazaro, you say that Roman doesn't "give away black belts" and you are absolutely correct, instead he sells them for $900. I understand that you are loyal to your and instructor and I have empathy with your situation, but what he is doing is wrong. It's a blatant con. This kind of thing is getting more and more prevalant. I understand that Martial arts instruction is a business to some, but people like this guy are giving ALL martial arts instructors the reputation of snake oil salesmen. That's why my back yard is my dojo.


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## ArmorOfGod

I remember several years back, he was selling 2nd degree black belts on eBay for $199.  For that price, you received the dvd's, a uniform, a black belt, and the certificate.  Then, he had some junk about he believes that people would not cheat him since he was native American and they would go through and learn the material, thus making the certificate legitimate.

AoG


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## Twin Fist

what was teh highest rank he recieved from Mr Parker?


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## celtic_crippler

I believe Chief Roman attained a 5th under SGM Parker. He also studied Arnis under Remy Presas. 

So while Mr. Roman's abilities may be legit, the ability and skill of his "students" are no doubt in question when one can order Mr. Roman's complete DVD course complete with black belt without ever being seen or tested by an instructor.


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## LuckyKBoxer

Does anyone actually know someone who has a Black Belt by distance learning?
We had a first brown belt who left the studio because he was disgruntled that he couldn't have things his way...
He left the studio and I ran into him a few months later and he claimed he got his Black Belt from one Grandmaster Roman.... I had no Idea who that was at the time. This was back in the late 90s. A year later he was claiming he was a second degree under the Grandmaster Roman..

I never saw his Belt, I never saw his certificate, and as far as I know he never actually trains or teaches in any commercial setting, and has no students. From my conversations at the time, which were very brief, it sounds like he just used it as a bragging thing..

His name is Robert Salazar by the way, in case he is actually anywhere.

but ya, anyone know of any of these distance learning guys, especially Adrian Romans that are using the certificate for anything more then a bragging instrument for friends and coworkers?


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## elder999

celtic_crippler said:


> I believe Chief Roman attained a 5th under SGM Parker. He also studied Arnis under Remy Presas. .


 
Please....don't call him "Chief," _please???_ :barf:


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## arnisador

Yeah, and don't associate him with arnis.


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## Blindside

arnisador said:


> Yeah, and don't associate him with arnis.



What?  You don't buy that little statement on Roman's website that Remy Presas offered him the successorship to Modern Arnis  Which he then turned down to focus on his own pursuits....


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## masherdong

Hmm, it says on his website that he is now a 9th Dan in Kenpo.  About a year ago, he was still an 8th Dan.  Who promoted him?


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## arnisador

Maybe he ordered a certificate by mail.


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## celtic_crippler

arnisador said:


> Maybe he ordered a certificate by mail.


 
:hmm:...hmmmm 


ROFL


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## Danjo

Sifu Lazaro Bueno said:


> He does offer his course on sale and also options to pay for testing fees but does not give away black belts.


 
We didn't say he _gave_ them away. We said he _sold_ them. When you send out the black belt certificate in the first mailing post-dated a year, that's what it's called.

When did you buy yours?


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## masherdong

Danjo said:


> We didn't say he _gave_ them away. We said he _sold_ them. When you send out the black belt certificate in the first mailing post-dated a year, that's what it's called.
> 
> When did you buy yours?


 
:lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao:


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## ghostface

Master Adrian Roman is not just a great kenpo instructor,but one of the fewto receive his black belt from Master Ed Parker. Any one who knows anything about martial arts knows that was no easy task.Whether you agree with him promoting the apak system through distance learning is a whole other issue.It is an honor to have trained with this Master and he indeed is a man of great wisdom. I also will go as far as to say that if there was someone alive today, who was trained by Ed Parker and is carrying the American Kenpo banner-it would definetly be Master Adrian Roman. He has alsi been the trainer of many well accomplished teachers like Sifu Lazaro Bueno in Miami,fl. who teaches JKD. Adrian Roman has developed a system of fighting called Falamichi which is incredible to say the least. Please take the time to meet him andgo to one of his seminars then make your decisions.I hope i am still as active as him ahen i reach his age.Pass by his school in Texas if your ever in the area for a free class.


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## Danjo

Well, ghostface, thanks for giving us your impressions of Roman.
Cool sounding name of that martial art Falamich. Whatever that means. Does he sell 
rank in that the same way he does Kenpo?
One thing I'm pretty sure of is that he didn't mail order his belt from Parker, so I'm not sure why 
he would think it was a good idea. Besides money.


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## searcher

ghostface said:


> I also will go as far as to say that if there was someone alive today, who was trained by Ed Parker and is carrying the American Kenpo banner-it would definetly be Master Adrian Roman.


 

Cool, I will be sure to let Mr. Sepulveda, Mr. Tatum, Mr. Trejo, Mr. Planas, Mr. Sullivan, and any of the other seniors that they can't stand in comparison to Adrian Roman.:barf:

As I will see Mr. Sepulveda and Mr. Tatum later in 2011, I will make sure to pass your sentiments along.

This is for the selling of rank.  :bird:


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## Flying Crane

ghostface said:


> Master Adrian Roman is not just a great kenpo instructor,but one of the fewto receive his black belt from Master Ed Parker. Any one who knows anything about martial arts knows that was no easy task.
> 
> ...
> 
> I also will go as far as to say that if there was someone alive today, who was trained by Ed Parker and is carrying the American Kenpo banner-it would definetly be Master Adrian Roman.


 
This topic is really none of my business and I don't really care one way or the other about Mr. Roman, having never met him and feeling doubtful that I ever will...

However, I'll just point out that a lot of people like to claim that they "trained" with Mr. Parker.  I don't know the specifics of Mr. Roman's relationship with Mr. Parker.  But I will say that I think a lot of people who claim to have trained with Mr. Parker actually did so thru the venue of seminars, and an occasional lesson here and there.  Meaning: they really had a very superficial relationship with the man, without a deep and strong teacher-student relationship.  My impression is that not very many people can really claim to have been a direct student of Mr. Parker, at least not in a meaningful and traditional way.  I think that after a certain date he really had very few people who he taught directly and consistently and deeply, conducting most of his interactions with students thru the seminar venue.  I've heard that he sat on testing boards and signed off on black belt promotions all over the place, overseeing testing of masses of students who were not HIS students.  So a lot of people have a black belt certificate with Mr. Parker's signature on it.

Everyone wants to claim that the famous teacher was THEIR teacher.  The real test is, would that famous teacher claim THEM as his student?

Again, I don't know where Mr. Roman fits into this picture, but I think these are important issues to keep in mind.



> He has alsi been the trainer of many well accomplished teachers like Sifu Lazaro Bueno in Miami,fl. who teaches JKD.


 
could you explain why Mr. Bueno teaches JKD, and (presumably) not kenpo?  Or does he teach kenpo as well?  It just seems to me that if his instruction under Mr. Roman was of the highest caliber, then he would be teaching kenpo instead.



> Adrian Roman has developed a system of fighting called Falamichi which is incredible to say the least.


 
could you give a description of what this is?  I'm curious.


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## Doc

masherdong said:


> How is he in the area of EPAK?  I have his distant learning program and am wondering if it is worthwhile.



Unless it includes regular in-person training and testing, none of them are any good.


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## Doc

ghostface said:


> Master Adrian Roman is not just a great kenpo instructor,but one of the fewto receive his black belt from Master Ed Parker. Any one who knows anything about martial arts knows that was no easy task.Whether you agree with him promoting the apak system through distance learning is a whole other issue.It is an honor to have trained with this Master and he indeed is a man of great wisdom. I also will go as far as to say that if there was someone alive today, who was trained by Ed Parker and is carrying the American Kenpo banner-it would definetly be Master Adrian Roman. He has alsi been the trainer of many well accomplished teachers like Sifu Lazaro Bueno in Miami,fl. who teaches JKD. Adrian Roman has developed a system of fighting called Falamichi which is incredible to say the least. Please take the time to meet him andgo to one of his seminars then make your decisions.I hope i am still as active as him ahen i reach his age.Pass by his school in Texas if your ever in the area for a free class.



Well sir, while I recognize this as your first and only post under this avatar, I wonder how you arrive at your "impression" of Roman's Kenpo and what your expertise is on the subject, and I tend to be a tad cynical in your endorsement. Either way, I find all so-called "distance learning" video ranking as an inappropriate way to learn any branch of Ed Parker material in particular, and any legitimate martial art at all in general.

Further While I cannot definitively say Roman did or did not receive his black belt from Mr. Parker, I can say definitively that if he did, it was within no more than 9 years of Mr. Parker's death as evidenced by the fact he is not represented on the Family Tree published by Mr. Parker in the first volume insert of "Infinite Insights." 

Now of those 9 years, I can also say definitively that he was not a regular student in Southern California at Mr. Parker's residence, therefore if he received his black belt, it was while he was "training" somewhere else outside of Mr. Parker's presence, as his home was the only place he gave regular instruction to anyone during that time period. Of these few, I am aware of who they were, and Roman was definitely not one of them. However, It was not unusual for Mr. Parker to do "co-promotions" with a persons instructor from all of the affiliate schools, and he did so even with local schools. But, Mr. Parker always signed on the "IKKA President Line," not the "Instructor Line." Anyone not on the tree, and who didn't live in Southern Cal therefore has a very small window to make claims of being a direct student of Ed Parker, and indeed even those in Southern Cal would have difficulty making such a claim, as most are students of students who have jumped the lineage branch, claiming Mr. Parker and ignoring their actual instructor.

Now that being said, where did you get your rank and expertise to support your opinion? While everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion in an open forum, I would hope that any endorsement would include some measure of background by which we in a Kenpo Forum would be able to assess the validity and weight of such endorsement against our own credentials, expertise, and opinions.


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## Milt G.

Hello,
Yes, I have heard of Adrian "Chief" Roman...

He sells Kenpo black belt distance learning programs for $995.  Even includes the certificate with your initial order.  It is on the "honor" system, that you will study and learn the material.

Interesting???  Wonder how many he has sold?

I do know that his son is very opinionated, and does comment on Kenpo "Youtube" videos.  Is usually very uncomplementary to stuff other then his fathers...  

Oh well...  You have to make a living some how...

Thank you,
Milt G.


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## searcher

As this little tidbit concerns Roman I am posting this link.      I got this from my Kenpo Brother and we both find it to be sickening and hilarious at the same time.

http://www.nativekenpo.com/chief%20adrian%20roman%20unique%20belt.htm

Apparently Mr. Roman is setting a new standard for rank in any martial art.


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## Big Don

Oh my...


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## Doc

searcher said:


> As this little tidbit concerns Roman I am posting this link.      I got this from my Kenpo Brother and we both find it to be sickening and hilarious at the same time.
> 
> http://www.nativekenpo.com/chief%20adrian%20roman%20unique%20belt.htm
> 
> Apparently Mr. Roman is setting a new standard for rank in any martial art.



And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.


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## punisher73

searcher said:


> As this little tidbit concerns Roman I am posting this link. I got this from my Kenpo Brother and we both find it to be sickening and hilarious at the same time.
> 
> http://www.nativekenpo.com/chief adrian roman unique belt.htm
> 
> Apparently Mr. Roman is setting a new standard for rank in any martial art.


 
ummm.....

I did notice though that he now also claims a GM and 10th degree in Hawaiian Kosho Ryu Kenpo Jujitsu, who/where did he train for that?  And what is "Native Kenpo"?


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## searcher

punisher73 said:


> ummm.....
> 
> I did notice though that he now also claims a GM and 10th degree in Hawaiian Kosho Ryu Kenpo Jujitsu, who/where did he train for that?


 
Got me on that one.    I am guessing he decided one day that he want rank in it and did up his own paperwork.




> And what is "Native Kenpo"?


 
Got me on that one also.     His version, maybe?




I am just glad I am not one of his students.


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