# anti-virus



## Marvin (Aug 28, 2006)

I am running AVG free edition on my computernow, but I just bought McAfee VirusScan plus. Before I open it, is the free A/V I am using now good enough?


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## Carol (Aug 28, 2006)

Probably not, but it depends on how much time and file corruption you can afford to lose to an attack.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 28, 2006)

I switched from McAfee to AVG. I wouldn't go back if someone paid me.
Seems to update quicker, is less of a pig on system resources, and all the tests I've seen show it to be comparable.

It's the AVS that I've been recommending to my clients for years.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 28, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Probably not, but it depends on how much time and file corruption you can afford to lose to an attack.


 

Let me ask a couple of questions first

Do you have firewall and antispyware software?

Are you connecting with dialup?

Is this anti virus software the only security related software you have?

Now:

I do not know AVG but I do not trust free antivirus software, I have to go with Carol on this.

But I must also say I do not deal with McAfee home version at all and I haven't in years I only deal with McAfee enterprise edition (corporate stuff) and it does a very good job. 

For the home I use to recommend Symantec but then I changed to recommending f-secure. I am now researching TrendMicro software for home use but I have not finished testing it yet.


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## OUMoose (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm with Bob.  I've used AVG for quite a while now and never had a problem.  The updates are frequent and their detection engine is better than McAfee's (I've experienced this first hand).  

If you're insisting on a commercial product, TrendMicro is the way I would go.  Trend has a free scanning engine as well that you can use from a boot disk for those "oh crap" moments.

Basically, be safe when you're on the net.  Don't click on suspicious things; let paranoia be your friend.  Run a hardware firewall, or at least a software one (not nearly as good, but at least it's something) if you're worried about intrusion.  








...And if all else fails, blame Carol.


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## fireman00 (Aug 29, 2006)

AVG - CAN'T BEAT IT!  Its updated very frequently, it does a fantastic job on scanning the system, its very system resource friendly and its FREE.

I've found that both McAffee and Norton are both memory hogs.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 29, 2006)

What about Panda?  Does anyone here use it and is it good or not?

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Marvin (Aug 29, 2006)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> Basically, be safe when you're on the net. Don't click on suspicious things; let paranoia be your friend. Run a hardware firewall, or at least a software one (not nearly as good, but at least it's something) if you're worried about intrusion.


I have the xp firewall, what is a hardware firewall?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 29, 2006)

Marvin said:
			
		

> I have the xp firewall what is a hardware firewall?


 
I think that he meant hardwire firewall!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Marvin (Aug 29, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> I think that he meant hardwire firewall!
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


 
I don't know what that is either :idunno:


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## Andrew Green (Aug 29, 2006)

AVG is great, much better then McAfee.  Don't pay for Anti virus software, Free software is often better.

As for trust, most websites run on free software, Commercial software is usually not secure enough for systems "in the wild"

Anyways, hardware firewalls - Most often for a home system this is simply a router.  A router hides your computers from the outside, stops unwanted packets and can filter traffic.  For home uses this is usually sufficient.  Larger networks will have more complex firewalls, but basically the same thing.  I'll be building one later this week.  Basically a router, but instead of a little box it is a full computer with much more options, more configurable and more logging.

But free software is good, and while AVG might not be Open source, it's still damn good software, the commercial equivelants can't touch it IMO.


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## Bigshadow (Aug 29, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Basically a router, but instead of a little box it is a full computer with much more options, more configurable and more logging.


I used to run a smoothwall Linux based firewall at home.  It worked great and I believe had better throughput than my linksys wireless router.  The thing I didn't like about Smoothwall was that it didn't have stateful packet inspection.  But it NEVER gave me any issues.  All I had to do is check it every so often to make sure there weren't hot fixes to be applied to it.  I am considering putting it back online whenever I can get my server rack cabinet home.


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## TonyMac (Aug 29, 2006)

I've had McAfee and Norton programs crash my system and would'nt use either if I had to.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 29, 2006)

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> I used to run a smoothwall Linux based firewall at home.  It worked great and I believe had better throughput than my linksys wireless router.  The thing I didn't like about Smoothwall was that it didn't have stateful packet inspection.  But it NEVER gave me any issues.  All I had to do is check it every so often to make sure there weren't hot fixes to be applied to it.  I am considering putting it back online whenever I can get my server rack cabinet home.



I'll be heading the IP Cop route myself 

But I've pretty much come to realise that commercial software has it's place, and the place is not in security


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## Ping898 (Aug 29, 2006)

You also got to keep in mind that when people create a new virus, one of the first things they do is test it against Norton (symantic) and McAfee and then fiddle with it until those two don't immediately recognize it...


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## fireman00 (Aug 29, 2006)

Marvin said:
			
		

> I have the xp firewall, what is a hardware firewall?


 
bascially its any device or software that limits access to/ from a network, a router could be a firewall.

A lot of folks like to use ZoneAlarm, another free piece of software that is VERY effective at preventing intrusions.  The only issue is that the first time you access the Internet with a program Z/A will prompt you to allow access or not.  BlackIce is another nice software firewall and runs about 40 to 50 bucks.

As far as AVG - yes it is free, but it has gotten excellent write ups/ reviews as far as free anti-virus protection and it does automatic updates.

Its intall uses a small footprint, just about 30 Mb and only runs 4 processes in memory; a plus for folks with an older machine.... or for anyone that doesn't want their system clogged up with memory hogs.  

A side note; folks that setup a computer and attach to the internet without having any anti-virus/ firewall protection can start to experience intrusions within about 15 minutes so it really doesn't matter if you have dial-up or a high speed connection.  There are computer hacker snots out there with nothing better to do then find and setup zombie machines to carry out their dirty deeds.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 29, 2006)

It's entirely automated.  There is no "guy" sitting there trying to break into your system.  It's a program, designed to search for and exploit holes.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 29, 2006)

Actually there are a lot of people out there trying to break into systems.

Also the time for an unprotected system to be compromised is now less than 15 minutes. 

If it is high speed such as road runner it can be quicker than Dialup only because Dialup when shut down is no longer connected to the web and road runner is always connected, regardless of computer state, there is always something there for them to see.

A router is a good thing, but not infallible.

If you want security of a PC you need various levels, a router and a firewall for example. And of course a virus scanner and in todays world probably something to fight spyware. However it is best if these products do not all come from the same vendor.


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## fireman00 (Aug 29, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> It's entirely automated. There is no "guy" sitting there trying to break into your system. It's a program, designed to search for and exploit holes.


 

The word I'm looking for is ...... "hacker" as in the little crap heads that write up the code that is used to probe the hundreds of ports on hundreds of machines that are used for exploitation purposes.  so yes there is a "guy" sitting there trying to access systems.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2006)

I'm a hacker. 
Real hackers have other names for the scum bags who write viruses and do damage to your system.  Most of them are listed in our profanity filter.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 29, 2006)

Okay you guy's are talking way over my head!:idunno: 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## BlackCatBonz (Aug 29, 2006)

Ive been using AVG free for quite some time now......I wouldnt even bother with mcafee or norton anymore.
I believe its the same application as it's enterprise version, but because it's free, it has only the basics.


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## OUMoose (Aug 29, 2006)

fireman00 said:
			
		

> The word I'm looking for is ...... "hacker" as in the little crap heads that write up the code that is used to probe the hundreds of ports on hundreds of machines that are used for exploitation purposes. so yes there is a "guy" sitting there trying to access systems.


No, the word you're looking for is "cracker".  A hacker is just someone who likes to tinker around with systems to get them to work in new ways.  A net hacker is someone who pokes and prods at systems to see if they're vulnerable, then most likely patches said hole and moves on.  A cracker is someone, who does a similar activity, only for nefarious purposes.  The little crap heads you so eloquently mentioned are called "script kiddies", who go download the "|\|3\/\/357 & 1337357" pieces of code (mostly written by decent pen testers) to use against uneducated end users who don't patch their Windows 95 boxes because "it's worked fine, why fix it?".  

@Bigshadow:  I've been checking out smoothwall.  Was it a difficult config?  Right now I think I'm leaning toward PF on OpenBSD just to play around with.   My quad PPro server is collecting dust. heh.


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## Marvin (Aug 29, 2006)

Ok, I have a router as well. Do I need to configure it to "hide" my computers? Why I ask is because, for example, on Andrew Greens posts it lists my ip number, does that mean he/you can see it or is that a little bug to mess with my mind?


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## Andrew Green (Aug 29, 2006)

Your IP address is visible anywhere you go.  But that IP address is not your computers, it is your routers.  Your computer exists on a smaller network not visible to the outside and interned traffic is sent through the router.  So I can see your router, but not your computer.


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## fireman00 (Aug 30, 2006)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> No, the word you're looking for is "cracker". A hacker is just someone who likes to tinker around with systems to get them to work in new ways. A net hacker is someone who pokes and prods at systems to see if they're vulnerable, then most likely patches said hole and moves on. A cracker is someone, who does a similar activity, only for nefarious purposes. The little crap heads you so eloquently mentioned are called "script kiddies", who go download the "|\|3\/\/357 & 1337357" pieces of code (mostly written by decent pen testers) to use against uneducated end users who don't patch their Windows 95 boxes because "it's worked fine, why fix it?". quote]
> 
> The difference between the gray hats and black hats is minimal at best.  The definition of hacker to one person can mean stolen data for hundreds of thousands ala AT&T's personal data fiasco from last weekend.  I work for a company that has to deal with dozens of DOS and literally tens of thousands of port probes a year I'll stick with "little crap heads" I'd have used a much more colorful description but I wouldn't want to run afoul of the ROEs.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 30, 2006)

It's a mess 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_definition_controversy


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## Bigshadow (Aug 31, 2006)

And the white hats can get gray hats or even black hats and the black hats can become white hats or gray hats, and gray....etc. Make sense?


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## Toby (Aug 31, 2006)

I'd say, stick with AVG. Mcafee is useless and more prone to attacks by virus writers (as in they disable the AV) as it's one of the bigger companies.

From when I used to use it, AVG offerd decent protection for a free AV. And wasn't too taxing on system resources.

I use Nod32 these days, it costs like $40, offers the best protection. IMO. Has the smallest footprint of any AV.

For firewall (cause' I don't have a router) I use Outpost Pro and for Anti-Spyware I use Spy Sweeper.

Haven't been infected for ages.


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