# Please Help



## Tanaka (Jun 1, 2010)

Tonight after a Randori session. Something odd happened to me... For some reason my body started doing weird things. I felt really weak and my eyes started to get cloudy from the outside until it made its way to the center and completely blocked my vision. Also I noticed that my hearing was fading, and it was hard for me to hear. So I told sensei I needed to sit down because I was lacking oxygen. As I sat down my vision started to clear and my hearing started coming back. But it wasn't until I laid down on the floor that it completely all came back to me. And my eyes cleared up and my hearing was back to normal. But when I stood back up it started happening again and I felt weak. After laying down for a good bit; I was finally able to stand up without it happening again.

Has this happened to anyone before? I theorized that it was because I didn't eat a good diet today. I don't really want to go talk to a doctor about it, but if I have to I will. Also for people to better understand what I mean by cloudy; close your eyes really hard, press your fist against them for 5 secs, and then open them.
You'll see that they slowly clear up to where you can see.
That's exactly what it was like, except I couldn't see at all.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 2, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> Tonight after a Randori session. Something odd happened to me... For some reason my body started doing weird things. I felt really weak and my eyes started to get cloudy from the outside until it made its way to the center and completely blocked my vision. Also I noticed that my hearing was fading, and it was hard for me to hear. So I told sensei I needed to sit down because I was lacking oxygen. As I sat down my vision started to clear and my hearing started coming back. But it wasn't until I laid down on the floor that it completely all came back to me. And my eyes cleared up and my hearing was back to normal. But when I stood back up it started happening again and I felt weak. After laying down for a good bit; I was finally able to stand up without it happening again.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone before? I theorized that it was because I didn't eat a good diet today. *I don't really want to go talk to a doctor about it*, but if I have to I will. Also for people to better understand what I mean by cloudy; close your eyes really hard, press your fist against them for 5 secs, and then open them.
> You'll see that they slowly clear up to where you can see.
> That's exactly what it was like, except I couldn't see at all.



WHY?

I am not prone to use profanity so I won't, but WHY don't you want to go to a doctor about this? These are serious symptoms, and could indicate many different things, from simply lack of nutrition (you ate too little) to a serious cardiovascular problem or worse.

And rather than go to a doctor, you ask a bunch of unqualified, anonymous people on the internet if your symptoms look like anything they've ever had and what they did about it. Does that sound like a smart thing?

Go. See. A. Doctor.


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## Tanaka (Jun 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> WHY?
> 
> I am not prone to use profanity so I won't, but WHY don't you want to go to a doctor about this? These are serious symptoms, and could indicate many different things, from simply lack of nutrition (you ate too little) to a serious cardiovascular problem or worse.
> 
> ...


I don't know... I never really like going to doctor.
I won't say how long it's been since I've been to one.

But I can't see one tonight being how late it is. So I decided to see if anyone else has experienced it and can perhaps shed some light on the situation. 
Just because I said I don't like going, doesn't mean I'm not going.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 2, 2010)

The symptoms you describe can have multiple reasons, from trivial to life threatening. Therefore
a) you should see a doctor asap. and
b) suppose I say that I've had something similar and it was nothing serious. You say 'cool' and continue training. Only in your case it was not 'nothing' and you have a stroke... then my answer would be less than useless: it might have killed you.

This is also why doctors don't give medical advice on the internet and lawyers don't give legal advice on the internet, at least not without a pre-existing business relationship.

I am not a fan of going to the doctor either, and there are years in which I only go because I need to have an insurance form filled out. Still, tonight I'll be going to the doctor because the gym coach (I signed up in a gym yesterday) measured my blood pressure and it was too high. Not by much, but elevated nonetheless. Now I could post in the 'health' forum and ask questions, but given that my doctor is the only one qualified to form a medical opinion about me, realistically he is the one I should go to, and not you guys.


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## kaizasosei (Jun 2, 2010)

Do you take any vitamin supplements or medication?  If so, what kind?

_Think if it might be something that you ate or drank that day. Or if you even drank enough at all.?
How much meat do you eat? How much sugar do you take? I think, it's good to balance that out.
Was the dojo well ventilated?  
Did you drink vodka the night before?

For vitamins, i would take care to get enough of the necessary minerals, but as a male be careful not to take too much iron.   Something blood related with receptors or circulation. - 


To me it sounds like there was some kind of chemical poisoning you and you're over it, but it could even be more serious than that so you should definitely check it out with a doctor if you feel even the slightest thing again. You were losing conciousness for no apparent reason.  Good move to lie down. Some other poisons you have to spas your arms get up and walk it off or else.  Also in sparring, wrestling type extreme effort, anytime your heart beats funny you have to immediately relax on that.  Some soccer players and judo practitioners push themselves to death.




j


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## jks9199 (Jun 2, 2010)

Go to a doctor.  In fact, you probably should have gone to the ER last night.  At least call your doctor's office and get their opinion.  Those symptoms could be anything from a bit of exhaustion to a close call on a choke to a stroke, heart attack, or other life threatening illness.

Getting medical advice over the internet is chancy at best...  Witness the "some sort of poison" comment above.


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## wushuguy (Jun 2, 2010)

if it happens a few times then a doc visit is in order. once or twice during heavy workout, perhaps could be extreme over exertion, which a doc visit can still be recommended.

Similar happened to me during a workout, got hot very fast, but then the air-conditioner of the building was very high, so then got cooled down too fast, after felt similar to what you described. couldn't and wouldn't say it is the same thing though.


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## Tanaka (Jun 2, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> Go to a doctor.  In fact, you probably should have gone to the ER last night.  At least call your doctor's office and get their opinion.  Those symptoms could be anything from a bit of exhaustion to a close call on a choke to a stroke, heart attack, or other life threatening illness.
> 
> Getting medical advice over the internet is chancy at best...  Witness the "some sort of poison" comment above.


I did have two real close calls with a choke. 
But it was just weird that it didn't decide to happen until afterwards, when I was finished and standing up. But I plan to visit the close family doctor tomorrow. 

And yesterday(I know this is bad), but all I ate before going to dojo at 7pm. Was toaster strudel in the morning and two Mcdonalds snack wraps for lunch on the way to dojo. I knew I was going to have issues since I didn't have proper diet that day. Ever since I started muscle building... if I don't eat I will get really weak after using up serious energy. But I try not to miss a day of training lol. 

And the place was well ventilated. I wasn't hot feeling at all.
Just tired and weak feeling. And it felt like my head just wasn't getting enough blood to function.


As far as for alcohol. I occasionally drink red wine.


And for today... I feel back to normal completely, and able to do work outs and conditioning. I do feel sore though like normal, which is how I usually feel after sparring hard. 
But just to make sure I'm alright I will still see the doctor.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 2, 2010)

Go see a doctor.  Do not train further until you have described your symptoms, been checked thoroughly, and your doctor clears you to return to training.  Dying is considered poor form in a dojo, and you probably won't get promoted on schedule.  If I were your sensei, I would hold your head to my ear to see if I could hear the ocean; your noggin' is apparently quite hollow.


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## Tanaka (Jun 2, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Go see a doctor.  Do not train further until you have described your symptoms, been checked thoroughly, and your doctor clears you to return to training.  Dying is considered poor form in a dojo, and you probably won't get promoted on schedule.  If I were your sensei, I would hold your head to my ear to see if I could hear the ocean; your noggin' is apparently quite hollow.



Thanks for insulting me.

But I know it wasn't symptoms of a stroke. 
And I'm able to work out today. So it's obviously not an ongoing situation. (Such as blood blockage).

I think wushuguy has the best idea.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 2, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> Thanks for insulting me.



You're welcome.



> But I know it wasn't symptoms of a stroke.



You do, do you?  OK, doctor.  Hmm, but I said nothing about a stroke that I recall.



> And I'm able to work out today. So it's obviously not an ongoing situation. (Such as blood blockage).



You're sure, are you?  OK, doctor.



> I think wushuguy has the best idea.



I think you should see a doctor before you die.  But do as you wish.


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## Tanaka (Jun 2, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I remember when I was really young. And I used to get bruised or sick. My dad or mom was able to successfully do the right things to help with my recovery.

Does that make them doctors too?
Because if so there's a lot of doctors in the world.

But in reality... I had to be educated in some medical procedures when I was being trained as a technician. One being how to tell the symptoms of stroke. The body is like a very complicated computer. A slight know how of the body... can sometimes help you conclude what an issue could be.

But you seem determined that I'm going to die if I do not go to the doctor. Next time I get a cold maybe I should go straight to the doctor or I may die as well.

At this point I'm pretty sure it was 
1)not eating properly
2)The blood choke I barely escaped from

Since I went to look up what happens when you start to black out from a blood choke.


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## Blindside (Jun 2, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> And yesterday(I know this is bad), but all I ate before going to dojo at 7pm. Was toaster strudel in the morning and two Mcdonalds snack wraps for lunch on the way to dojo. I knew I was going to have issues since I didn't have proper diet that day. Ever since I started muscle building... if I don't eat I will get really weak after using up serious energy. But I try not to miss a day of training lol.


 
It sounds like a blood sugar crash to me, I've had it happen twice, both when I haven't eaten well. One was so bad that I wasn't able to depress the clutch on my truck because my legs were so weak. I pulled over and luckily had some gatorade and crackers at hand and was OK again in 20 minutes.   

But yes, go see a doctor.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 2, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> I remember when I was really young. And I used to get bruised or sick. My dad or mom was able to successfully do the right things to help with my recovery.



I think you're still very young; or very foolish. Or both.



> At this point I'm pretty sure it was
> 1)not eating properly
> 2)The blood choke I barely escaped from
> 
> Since I went to look up what happens when you start to black out from a blood choke.



Try to recall that you asked for help and advice. Now you know what the problem is, having obtained a Google medical diploma. And you needed help and advice for what, exactly? 

I rather suspect you already had made up your mind when you posted, and were just looking for someone to agree with you.  Sorry to disappoint.


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## Bruno@MT (Jun 3, 2010)

I have to agree with Bill: it seems like you already made up your mind and just wanted confirmation that it was ok to resume training without seeing a doctor.

The things you mention about your parents: there is a difference, and it is sad you don't see it yourself. Cuts, scrapes, bruises, etc... these are things which have known causes (you fell, you cut yourself, etc) and if there are no complications, the treatment is known by anybody.

The symptoms you described are much more serious, and have no known cause at this moment. Do you really think that is comparable to your parents being able to treat a bruise? You get answers like '_it might have been a chemical poison_' and you still think that asking on the internet is a good idea?


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## Tanaka (Jun 3, 2010)

> I think you're still very young; or very foolish. Or both.



I'm old enough to know that a lot of people sit on forums ready to give someone a hard time.
And you seem to be one of them at the moment. Because your insults/behavior are counter productive.



> Try to recall that you asked for help and advice. Now you know what the problem is, having obtained a Google medical diploma. And you needed help and advice for what, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> I rather suspect you already had made up your mind when you posted, and were just looking for someone to agree with you.  Sorry to disappoint.



I posted my motive... this isn't a conspiracy.
I was looking to see if anyone else could shed some light based on their own experiences.
Therefore further help my conclusion.

For example.
I want to make a pie.
I already have some ingredients of my own that I've made.(My hypothesis)
And I ask others to donate some ingredients to my pie(My original question)
And after I get all the donations I will determine what makes the pie taste the best. Meaning I will discern through those donations. Which can mean taking and adding.(My conclusion)

That describes my motive here. I'm not making a predetermined pie and just asking for donations to make people(such as myself) feel better.

There's no need at all to insult my intelligence. Unless there is an ego to be fed.(This is why I'm told most people like to put people down.)

My father whom is a very old man. Gave me the same advice as wushuguy.
I guess to you he is VERY foolish?


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## Tanaka (Jun 3, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> I have to agree with Bill: it seems like you already made up your mind and just wanted confirmation that it was ok to resume training without seeing a doctor.
> 
> The things you mention about your parents: there is a difference, and it is sad you don't see it yourself. Cuts, scrapes, bruises, etc... these are things which have known causes (you fell, you cut yourself, etc) and if there are no complications, the treatment is known by anybody.
> 
> The symptoms you described are much more serious, and have no known cause at this moment. Do you really think that is comparable to your parents being able to treat a bruise? You get answers like '_it might have been a chemical poison_' and you still think that asking on the internet is a good idea?


Well I thank you for being more respectful. It means much to me.

but no... I'm not looking for any kind of confirmation or people to agree with me. What might be unknown to me and you. Might actually be a simple issue. Never know until you ask? right? 
And my symptoms don't match that of chemical poisoning. 

And I wasn't just referring to (bruises, cuts, and etc), but actual sicknesses as well. Anyways I think I will do something along the lines of what wushuguy and my father have told me.
Thank you for your advice(everyone who responded).


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## Grenadier (Jun 3, 2010)

Folks, there's a fine line between a wisecracking bit of humor, and a flame.  Before you post, think about how it could be interpreted, since it's not necessarily that evident, based on simple text. 

That being said:

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*

Please keep this conversation civil.

Ronald Shin
MT Supermoderator.


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## Drac (Jun 3, 2010)

Grenadier said:


> Folks, there's a fine line between a wisecracking bit of humor, and a flame. Before you post, think about how it could be interpreted, since it's not necessarily that evident, based on simple text.
> 
> That being said:
> 
> ...


 
Ya beat me to it...


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## The Last Legionary (Jun 3, 2010)

You have a problem like this, you go see a doctor. Unless you are a doctor, in which case you get a second opinion.  To do otherwise and seek answers from strangers on a web forum is foolish.

Then again, so are the pointless insults, slights and shots being exchanged. But hey, it won't be my *** suspended over the stupidity, so keep on keeping on guys.  I like seeing asshats modsmacked.

:rofl:


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## dbell (Jun 3, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> Thanks for insulting me.
> 
> But I know it wasn't symptoms of a stroke.
> And I'm able to work out today. So it's obviously not an ongoing situation. (Such as blood blockage).
> ...



I am a Physician's Assistant, and I have to say GO TO THE DOCTOR NOW!  Just because you are feeling better now doesn't mean there isn't a problem that needs checked out. And yes, it could be "blood blockage" as you say and not show as a problem now, problems, in early stage diseases can come and go.  This COULD be that.  (I'm not saying it is that, just that it COULD be something along that lines.   And no, I don't mean "blood blockage" but some other issue.  Sounds more respiratory or neurological  to me from a distance, and without hands on exam, lab work, etc.

The symptoms you presented here could be VERY VERY serious.


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## dbell (Jun 3, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> But in reality... I had to be educated in some medical procedures when I was being trained as a technician. One being how to tell the symptoms of stroke. The body is like a very complicated computer. A slight know how of the body... can sometimes help you conclude what an issue could be.



Symptoms of what kind of stroke?  Each category of stroke, depending on where it is happening presents differently, or not at all...  What kind of technician were you training for?  Medical Tech?  Computer Tech (since you compare the body to a computer)?

I know a LOT about the body, and without proper test I don't conclude much...  I look into it and find out what it is as much as possible.


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## tellner (Jun 3, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> I don't know... I never really like going to doctor.
> I won't say how long it's been since I've been to one.
> 
> But I can't see one tonight being how late it is. So I decided to see if anyone else has experienced it and can perhaps shed some light on the situation.
> Just because I said I don't like going, doesn't mean I'm not going.


 
Other people have tried to be nice. I won't be.

Go to the God damned doctor. If you don't you could die or become a cripple. These sound like possible symptoms of a stroke or something else bad. I don't know. You don't know. The only way to find out is to see the doctor. If it is some sort of CVA every hour you've wasted could be brain cells gone forever. Are you afraid it will be bad news? Maybe it will be. But if it's bad and you keep putting it off you could end up crippled or ****ing dead.

I nearly died a few years ago because I put off seeing the doctor. By the time I went the cancer had invaded my lymph system, esophagus and upper chest. 

If you think you "don't like" going to the doctor just wait until the doctors come to you in the ICU or the nursing home or to get permission from your family for an autopsy.


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## Aikicomp (Jun 4, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> At this point I'm pretty sure it was
> 1)not eating properly
> 2)*The blood choke I barely escaped from*
> 
> *Since I went to look up what happens when you start to black out from a blood choke*.


 
So, you're doing katemi-waza in a jujustu school/class, you barely escape two blood chokes and then come here and descibe what happened to you looking for answers from non medical personnel. Interesting. 

Then you go look up what the effects of a blood choke are? Odd kind of putting the cart before the horse, no?

The effects of a blood choke are EXACTLY what you described and if held any longer than the time of your "barely escaping" them you would be dead....that is what they are designed to do....cut off the blood supply to the brain and kill you. Plain and simple, end of story. 

However, what disturbs me more than your disregard for your own safety and ignorance of what you were doing, is that you are attending a school which obviously is teaching Shime-waza without telling you what the techniques are designed for and more importantly the instructors blatant disregard for the safety of their students.

Really scary to hear about what some of the clubs/schools are doing out there and the so called instructors teaching in them.

Michael


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