# Are there any forms in Hapkido?



## Kittan Bachika (Nov 15, 2009)

I have been perusing hapkido forms on youtube andI have seen a couple. But my overall impression is that hapkido does not have any forms?


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## goingd (Nov 15, 2009)

Well self defense techniques practiced formally are a type of form, but traditionally there are no patterns practiced in Hapkido. Over the years some masters have developed and taught their students forms - some better than others. I believe Myung Kwang Sik was the first to do so.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 16, 2009)

Realistically, as Goingd said, any sort of established partnered drill that is part of the curriculum is a hyung or kata.  The distinction between a hyung and a drill is usually whether or not it is a codified part of the curriculum or just something that the instructor knows and is using for the benefit of the class or a drill that the instructor came up with for the benefit of the class.

We have 72 partnered techniques in our curriculum, all grouped under Hoshinsul, but we do a lot of off the cuff drills as well, free sparring, and guruke (I believe that is the correct Korean term for ukemi).  Any sort of step sparring is also technically a partnered form.

Daniel


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## Drac (Nov 16, 2009)

There are no forms in the Combat Hapkido system..There are required techniques for each belt level that require a partner to learn..Master Steve thows in self defense drills to make it interesting...


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 16, 2009)

Drac said:


> There are no forms in the Combat Hapkido system..There are required techniques for each belt level that require a partner to learn..Master Steve thows in self defense drills to make it interesting...


In a JMA, those would likely be considered kata.  

Our school has specific required techniques which happen to require a partner as well.  We do not call them 'hyung' or forms, but really, they are a formalized set of movements that are supposed to be performed in a fairly specific way. 

What it is called in the end does not matter.  They are specific exercises that contain the essence of the system and are designed through repetition to help the student to improve their practice of the art and to teach them the  fundamental principles of the art.

Forms, drills, kata, hyung, or any other term is unimportant.  It should be called whatever it is termed in the system that it is being practiced in.  Like a book, the content is more important than the Dewey Decimal number assigned to it.

Daniel


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## goingd (Nov 17, 2009)

Just look at traditional and modern sport Kendo forms. They are extremely formal, but they are practiced with a partner like a self defense drill.


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## Drac (Nov 17, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> In a JMA, those would likely be considered kata.


 
I must disagree..I did endless hours of kata when I was a student of Shorin-Ryu...A standardized set of movements you did by yourself..To me there is a difference..But that's just me..




Daniel Sullivan said:


> Our school has specific required techniques which happen to require a partner as well. We do not call them 'hyung' or forms, but really, they are a formalized set of movements that are supposed to be performed in a fairly specific way.


 
Same here. 




Daniel Sullivan said:


> What it is called in the end does not matter. They are specific exercises that contain the essence of the system and are designed through repetition to help the student to improve their practice of the art and to teach them the fundamental principles of the art.


 



Daniel Sullivan said:


> Forms, drills, kata, hyung, or any other term is unimportant. It should be called whatever it is termed in the system that it is being practiced in. Like a book, the content is more important than the Dewey Decimal number assigned to it.


 
Amen...


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 17, 2009)

Drac said:


> I must disagree..I did endless hours of kata when I was a student of Shorin-Ryu...A standardized set of movements you did by yourself..To me there is a difference..But that's just me..


Not all kata are solo. In kendo for example, there is a set of ten kata and they are all done with a partner. Aikido I believe may have specific partnered kata as well. I know that other JMA's have partnered kata. 

Such partnered drills can sometimes be called waza, particularly if the style has solo kata already.

In Kendo, the "kata" are all representative of a number of sword styles of the time, so the kata have some degree of historical significance. The various waza using the shinai that are part of kendo, however, are exercises aimed at improving the skill of the kendoka during shiai.

From what I have seen in KMA, hyung, poomsae, tul, or whatever other terms for form exist, almost always are solo, while partnered drills either fall under step sparring or drills that are included in an organizations specific curriculum.

Once again, it really does not matter what it is called. Pardon my geeking out a bit.

Daniel


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 17, 2009)

goingd said:


> Just look at traditional and modern sport Kendo forms. They are extremely formal, but they are practiced with a partner like a self defense drill.


Just a correction: there is no "modern sport" kendo. Kendo is gendai budo, i.e. post Meiji. Thus all ken*do* is a modern art.  Shiai sparring and a sportive element was built in from the outset.  Much as judo.  Sport in kendo is not new; it is part of the foundation of the art.

There is prewar and postwar kendo, with the major differences being techniques that are allowed in tournament. Prewar kendo included sweeps and takedowns, horizontal blows to the head, and at least one choke submission.

Otherwise, the kendo no kata have not changed, though a new set of formal waza were introduced in 2003: Bokuto Ni Yoru Kendo Kihon-waza Keiko-ho. These are intended to further connect the kendo no kata with the shiai sparring.

Daniel


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## Drac (Nov 17, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Once again, it really does not matter what it is called. Pardon my geeking out a bit.
> 
> Daniel


 
No problems..


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## goingd (Nov 19, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Just a correction: there is no "modern sport" kendo. Kendo is gendai budo, i.e. post Meiji. Thus all ken*do* is a modern art.  Shiai sparring and a sportive element was built in from the outset.  Much as judo.  Sport in kendo is not new; it is part of the foundation of the art.
> 
> There is prewar and postwar kendo, with the major differences being techniques that are allowed in tournament. Prewar kendo included sweeps and takedowns, horizontal blows to the head, and at least one choke submission.
> 
> ...



My understanding was that Kendo itself was only a few hundred years old, which is new to me. Perhaps I was wrong. And I certainly did word myself wrong by implicating that Kendo had somehow modernized and changed. Thank you for the point.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 19, 2009)

goingd said:


> My understanding was that Kendo itself was only a few hundred years old, which is new to me. Perhaps I was wrong. And I certainly did word myself wrong by implicating that Kendo had somehow modernized and changed. Thank you for the point.


Kendo was invented in the eighteen hundreds and is barely over one hundred, let alone a few hundred.

Kendo was developed in the mid eighteen hundrends or so and was originally called gekkiken; essentially meaning fencing.  I am not sure when the name kendo was adopted, though I believe that that was later; 1880's to early 1900's if I am not mistaken.

You are correct that it has been modernized, primarily to make the sparring safer, mainly the elimitation of sweeps and takedowns, horizontal blows to the head, chokes.  There are still schools that teach prewar kendo, by the way.

The art is still essentially the same, however and a practitioner from 1910 would recognize modern kendo as kendo.

Daniel


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## Catalyst (Dec 4, 2009)

I think Hyung in Hapkido are the exception rather than the rule.

However, I study YonMooKwan Hapkido (World Hapkido Federation) and we do Hyungs in our style of Hapkido.

Here's the Empty Hand Hyungs we do:

ChunKi Hyung Sae (Heaven Form)
JeKi Hyung Sae (Earth Form)
NaeKi Hyung Sae (Inner Power Form)
WaeKi Hyung Sae (Outer Power Form)
KiHap Hyung Sae (Total Power Form)


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