# Mook Jong training ?



## legend29 (Feb 25, 2004)

What benefits can one expect from training on the Mook Jong, and would it help any in other parts of training, such as chi sao, sparring, or just reference trapping with a partner who doesn't train with a Mook Jong ?

  Richie


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## Black Bear (Feb 26, 2004)

Always better to train alive with a partner. I guess mook jongs are there to play with when no one else is (kind of like an inflatable love doll) and it's a whole lot more patient. It'll keep its arms and let you beat on it for hours. You might also consider the "silent fighter" designed by Kelly Worden of Washington state. Or you can make your own using a huge bucket full of concrete as a base. In it, set two 2x4's at just the right width so that when it dries, you can encircle them with a stack of golf-cart tires. Use cut-up broomsticks or PVC pipes for the "limbs". 

Personally, I've ditched the whole wing chun trapping structure. Mainly there are three ranges: open, clinch/close-quarter, and ground. Trapping range is evanescent and doesn't need to be trained as extensively as a lot of JKD folks do.


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## moving target (Feb 26, 2004)

Most training equipment is best used when you don't have a partner. There is so much more you can do with a living person.


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## Mormegil (Mar 2, 2004)

Agreed, nowhere near as good as a live partner.

But I have noticed that practicing on the wooden dummy has:
A)  Helped my structure (especially with my boang and tan sau - though i don't particularly care for the boang sau)
B)  Helped strengthen my lap sau, as you can pull really hard on the dummy.
C)  Helped me learn to "slip" around my opponent's limbs (as the dummy's limbs aren't all that flexible)

I'm sure there are other benefits that I haven't thought about or observed.


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## Douglas (Mar 30, 2004)

Also people aren't usually as patient as a chunk of wood.


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## Marvin (Apr 1, 2004)

I agree with Black Bear on this. The mook jung is cool for doing what I call "the history stuff", but I think a living, breathing person is the way to go. If you can't find a  person patient enough to work out with, then hit the heavy bag or work on conditioning.


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## WCBrown (Apr 1, 2004)

I would have to agree, for the most part with you all. A live training partner is much more benificial. The positive thing about using a wooden dummy is that you are able to strike it with much more force than a live partner.(Assuming that you plan to keep this person as a training partner.) It is a useful tool for toughening the body.

Thank You


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## bluesmuso (Jul 18, 2008)

Mormegil, your Bong Sau is a great friend, it helps defend against head butts and other close range attacks, I've also found it useful against boxer's hooks when your Dai sau fails (a boxer's hook will go straight around your dai sau and hit you), when your dai sau collapses it automatically flows into bong sau and with pivoting the body can roll the boxer's hook away.

I am not saying that boxer's are easy to fight, nor are boxer's hooks easy to deflect, I am just emphasizing how useful I think Bong Sau is, but I must admit there are people I've trained with who use techniques I hate (namely the hook kick) so I guess it depends what works for you.

I think the Mook Jong is a great training tool for Wing Chun, but a partner is good to, I think a blend of both is desireable, someone said that the mook jong is to a WC trainer what a boxing bag is to a boxer, I think you can develop more force and better structure on the wooden dummy but there are more variables when training with a partner and you can't spar with a Mook Jong.


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## geezer (Jul 19, 2008)

Black Bear said:


> Always better to train alive with a partner. I guess mook jongs are there to play with when no one else is...



I'm coming at this with a WC/WT bias. But regardless, Black Bear's exactly right. My old WT Sifu, Leung Ting, used to say that a live dummy was always better than a wooden one. But, when a student became a Sifu on his own, he needed a practice partner, hence the wooden dummy. 

The second point is that the classic Mook Yan Jong is not just designed to train "trapping". It's designed to correct the classical Wing Tsun/Chun techniques, structure and stances, much as a protractor is used when drawing angles and geometric figures. Since JKD does not use classical WT/WC stances and movements, the classical dummy is not an ideal training tool. 

I believe that Bear is right in suggesting a creative approach to making a dummy that bests suits your training needs. I use a traditional dummy for my Wing Tsun, but have devised other tools (such as flexible arms that can be strapped to my heavy bag) for my Eskrima work. Besides, designing and constructing your own dummy will really engage you in thinking through your techniques. And this approach is way cheaper. Good luck!


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## southpawgym (Jul 20, 2008)

In my personal experience mook jong training has led to highly conditioned arms, and fists, which are nessasary for hard sparring.More powerful lop sao. greater economy of motion (i.e. centerline theory),entrie drills are also effective in training proper foot alignment (i.e. foot2foot/shin2shin/knee2knee)according to the mook jong's leg. The mook jong in my opionon is a great tool for any type of martial artist.Also like shadow boxing, on the mook jong after training regularly you can achieve emptiness, something difficult to achieve without a dedicated workout partner.Time, Work, and repitition of knowledge.


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## paulH (Jul 22, 2008)

im getting one of these at the weekend http://www.immortal.co.uk/immortal-dummies.asp
anybody used one????


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## joeygil (Aug 8, 2008)

paulH said:


> im getting one of these at the weekend http://www.immortal.co.uk/immortal-dummies.asp
> anybody used one????


 
Nope, but looking at the photo of it, my concern is the base might be intrusive to some of the footwork.  If you're taller or step in deep, part 8 of the Jun Fan (WC based) set might be an issue, as would a LOT of the Jeet Kune Do wooden dummy set.


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## paulH (Aug 9, 2008)

joeygil said:


> Nope, but looking at the photo of it, my concern is the base might be intrusive to some of the footwork. If you're taller or step in deep, part 8 of the Jun Fan (WC based) set might be an issue, as would a LOT of the Jeet Kune Do wooden dummy set.


 well ive got one now... and no issues with it at all...


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## Franc0 (Aug 9, 2008)

paulH said:


> im getting one of these at the weekend http://www.immortal.co.uk/immortal-dummies.asp
> anybody used one????


 
I've had an Immortal Mook Jong for almost 10 years now, and I love it. Like they advertised, no cracking, warping, breaking of parts etc., even after leaving it outdoors for one hot Vegas summer. It's in the exact same condition (with some minor dents from testing it with a baseball bat) as the day it was delivered. 
As for it's training advantages, I concur with southpawgym's assessment. It definitely has conditioned my arms & hands (along with Iron Palm training)as well as enhancing other training aspects. They used to offer a slip over padded cover for more standard bag like training and I made a home made cover which works just as well. The base hasn't hindered my footwork much, aside from limiting the angles I can work from. Other than that, I think it was one of my best MA equipment investments ever.

Franco


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## NubreedKaliSilat (Oct 5, 2008)

Bruce Lee's garage, was filled with many training apparatus, several  heavey bags, one that weight 300lbs it was like kicking a marshmallow bigger then you, he also had a round punching bag to perfect punches to the face, and a jabbing pad to develop speed & power of jabs at the eyes. A paper target, to develop a sense of proper application of power against a giving object. He had devices which hit his student's back  developed with nonpassive, tensile cushions on springs. Lee had a special *wooden dummy* constructed, which he had transported from Hong Kong to the States. He said, remember just because you get very good at this supplemental training, it should not go to your head! He felt that this type of training had value and therefore practiced on this equipement daily. If wood dummy work was not apart of his personal development and training why would he have one contructed and shipped here? Yes, actual sparring is the ultimate, and this other training is only a means toward that end. But, also in sparring you should go all out wear suitable protective equipement Then you can truly learn the correct timing and distance for the delivery of kicks and punches on a moving responding opponent.


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