# Stop the booing!!!



## Odin (Oct 19, 2006)

Is it me or does the UFC really need to do something about the amount of Booing the crowd seems to do, it really irrates me, I mean you really need to be a fan to pay the $200 dollars to see a fight live why go and then boo when the action goes to ground?its MMA for godsake of course they're going to ground!!if you want stand up then watch k-1!!
The worst I've seen was at the last Forrest Bonner fight, It actually really P8ssed me off, the crowd booed because the rematch wasnt as bloody as the first one,come on! there was no care about the fact that these guys had skills or that maybe trading blows for 3 rounds while entertaining wasnt going to win the fight for either of them....Dana needs to sort this out....again though I go back to what I've said before we I dont see this crowd behaviour in Pride.


speaking of Pride did anyone happen to see Coleman and randleman in the crowd during the last UFC lol!about half way though they were gone I reckon Dana had them escorted out lol


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## terryl965 (Oct 19, 2006)

I agree the fan should know it is going to the ground so live with it.


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## mrhnau (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm not sure how things pan out with the seats at a UFC event, but I'm imagining that they don't get a good view of the action when it hits the ground. I've been to a few boxing matches in the area, and you NEVER get a view nearly as good as what you get on TV.

If I went to an event, I'd find it frustrating if the fighters spent 90% of the time in a place I can't see them well, and the fight ends with a submission I could hardly see. I imagine they have monitors post hoc, but in real time, I imagine its frustrating for viewers...

anyone here been to a UFC event and could possibly verify this?


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## Eternal Beginner (Oct 19, 2006)

I agree!  The last UFC I attended the booing was just ridiculous!  

It used to be they only boo'd  when it went to the ground and the uneducated fan would scream "stand 'em up!" and start booing.

Now they boo when they box too long, go to the ground, scratch themselves or breathe...I think they even boo the ring girls now!

I will be going to the PRIDE event in Vegas this weekend and it will be interesting to see if the booing is the same there.  

To mrhnau, we had not great seats at the last UFC and could still see fine, plus the fact they have huge screens that you can always check if the ref is in the way or they are in an area that you can't see well.  I don't think it is because of the view.  I didn't mind watching the monitors when I had to.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 19, 2006)

Unfortunately there really is nothing the UFC and Dana White can do except put on great fights.  I will admit the crowds will boo readily if they feel that the fighters are not going for it.  I remember the UFC in Detroit where Shamrock and Severn basically circled and punched the whole fight.  I was in the crowd and the booing was pretty intense.  People have come to expect that fighters in the UFC will go for it and when they do not you are going to here the boos.


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## ArmorOfGod (Oct 19, 2006)

Odin said:


> Is it me or does the UFC really need to do something about the amount of Booing the crowd seems to do,


 
What exactly do you think the UFC can do about that?  Escort any crowd members out that boo?

AoG


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## Odin (Oct 19, 2006)

ArmorOfGod said:


> What exactly do you think the UFC can do about that? Escort any crowd members out that boo?
> 
> AoG


 
Maybe have a a word with the stewards?

Im just having a rant to be honest since I think the new breed of MMA fans that go to these fights dont really understand what they're viewing.


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## Odin (Oct 19, 2006)

Eternal Beginner said:


> I agree! The last UFC I attended the booing was just ridiculous!
> 
> It used to be they only boo'd when it went to the ground and the uneducated fan would scream "stand 'em up!" and start booing.
> 
> ...


 
I've heard alot about that Vegas show Pride, its pride first step on to american soil, your a lucky guy to be going!

I know in Japan grapplering is more apprieated,its crazy you can here the crowd cheer everytime the fighters switch positions.
Let me know what the crowd are like when you go!!


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## Eternal Beginner (Oct 19, 2006)

Odin said:


> I've heard alot about that Vegas show Pride, its pride first step on to american soil, *your a lucky guy to be going!*
> 
> I know in Japan grapplering is more apprieated,its crazy you can here the crowd cheer everytime the fighters switch positions.
> Let me know what the crowd are like when you go!!


...umm, lucky _girl_ to be going:wink2: 

I'll let you know when I get back.  Should be an interesting comparison to see if it is the culture or the promotion that stimulates the booing.


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## matt.m (Oct 19, 2006)

People that go to these things should not boo.  It isn't them getting beat up on, they didn't train to be there either.  It is stupid, booing is just incredibly ridiculous in those kind of environments.


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## g-bells (Oct 19, 2006)

ignorance breeds stupidity


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## Kempojujutsu (Oct 19, 2006)

You have to remember Pride takes place in Japan. The Japanese people show lots of respect to the fighters. Americans could care less. They want action, blood and knockouts. When the fight goes to the ground many don't understand what is going on.


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 19, 2006)

To use a movie analogy, Pride is the Academy award winner that moviegoers with taste enjoy, UFC's the latest cheap horror film which caters to the lowest-common-denominator crowd.

Ah hell, who'm I kidding, nowadays ANY movie caters to the lowest common denominator but you get the basic point.


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## ArmorOfGod (Oct 19, 2006)

Odin said:


> Maybe have a a word with the stewards?
> 
> Im just having a rant to be honest since I think the new breed of MMA fans that go to these fights dont really understand what they're viewing.


 
Oh, I understand you completely.  Us Americans are typical of showing our butts in public places, particularly sporting arenas.  I read an article a while back talking about the Japanese reaction to events in their country.  They sit respectfully and pay attention to the fight.  They cheer in response to good moves, but do not jeer/boo.

And on your note, the new breed of MMA fans seems to be mostly comprised of thugs and punks, or at least the younger ones do anyway.  Of course, that is my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Still, with companies like TapOut making shirts that depict fighters urinating on their fallen opponenet, that is not going to help the sitation.

AoG


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2006)

The booing can be stopped, we stop it on our shows and so do other promoters over here. Damn right you can throw them out if they carry on though they don't usually after Freeman has told them to shut up, we also have very good security.! BTW Sami Berik another Brit fighter is matched against Gomi in Pride (Japan) next year. Also next year UFC comes back to the UK.


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## Loaded Luke (Oct 23, 2006)

Odin said:


> Is it me or does the UFC really need to do something about the amount of Booing the crowd seems to do....Dana needs to sort this out....



lol Ok I dont necessarily agree with booing, (unless if its a dodge decision) but seriously. Whats Dana gonna do.. go round to each of the individual 'booers' and tell them not to boo, lol! Nothing wrong with a bit o booing. Its all part of the atmosphere, stop whining.


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## crushing (Oct 23, 2006)

Eternal Beginner said:


> I agree! The last UFC I attended the booing was just ridiculous!
> 
> It used to be they only boo'd when it went to the ground and the uneducated fan would scream "stand 'em up!" and start booing.
> 
> Now they boo when they box too long, go to the ground, scratch themselves or breathe...I think they even boo the ring girls now!


 

Do you think the crowd would boo the ring girls if they started fighting and went down for some ground and pound?

I don't mind the fights going to the ground, but I have a much better view of the fight from my living room than the crowd does from their seats.  Maybe four big screens over the octagon would help the crowd stay interested in the fight when it goes to the canvas?


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## Odin (Oct 23, 2006)

Loaded Luke said:


> lol Ok I dont necessarily agree with booing, (unless if its a dodge decision) but seriously. Whats Dana gonna do.. go round to each of the individual 'booers' and tell them not to boo, lol! Nothing wrong with a bit o booing. Its all part of the atmosphere, stop whining.


 
???um well as Dana Pays the paychecks of all the people that work for the UFC  sooooo wouldnt he be the one that pays the crowd control stewards and as such be the one to talk to about crowd control?

Theres nothing wrong with a bit opf booing but every week its getting worst and worst, why watch it if your going to boo, why not watch somthing else if you wanted to watch knockouts go watch the highlight real on youtube.

I appriete the fights and understand what it takes to actually get in that cage and fight maybe if more people did then the booing would decrease.


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## Tez3 (Oct 23, 2006)

Loaded Luke said:


> lol Ok I dont necessarily agree with booing, (unless if its a dodge decision) but seriously. Whats Dana gonna do.. go round to each of the individual 'booers' and tell them not to boo, lol! Nothing wrong with a bit o booing. Its all part of the atmosphere, stop whining.


 
Of course they shouldn't be booing! And it's not whining. Do you get up and fight in the cage or ring? If you do, you would understand that booing is disrespectful, rude and ignorant and should not be part of the "atmosphere" at all! If you don't fight you should maybe think about the guts it takes to get up and do rather than criticise which is what booing is doing. You are condoning that criticism if not actually joining in. Parahaps the UFC should be looking to get a grown up audience in.


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## zDom (Oct 23, 2006)

Tez3 said:


> Parahaps the UFC should be looking to get a grown up audience in.



If the UFC wants to cater to a grown-up audience, maybe they should start by having the competitors act like adults and classy professional athletes instead of like professional wrestlers.

(and yes, I respect pro wrestlers for their athleticism, but pro wrestling is a exhibition, not a true competition, and the smack talking in pro wrestling is all part of the show)

As long as the competitors continue to show each other disrespect, it is going to be difficult to demand respect from the audience that kind of behavior attracts.


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 23, 2006)

zDom said:


> If the UFC wants to cater to a grown-up audience, maybe they should start by having the competitors act like adults and classy professional athletes instead of like professional wrestlers.
> 
> (and yes, I respect pro wrestlers for their athleticism, but pro wrestling is a exhibition, not a true competition, and the smack talking in pro wrestling is all part of the show)
> 
> As long as the competitors continue to show each other disrespect, it is going to be difficult to demand respect from the audience that kind of behavior attracts.


 

DEAD RIGHT ON.

But UFC won't do it, and I'll tell you why they won't do it right now:

The reason they will not do that thing is because that thing is not in their business interest.

The ones who buy the tickets and buy the pay per view are, by and large, not cultured, intelligent martial artists but rather the lowest-common-denominator, mid-teens to-early-20s unsavory riffraff types. Its simple numbers that there are more of them than of us to buy the tickets and PPV

. With the way the fighters are encouraged to act this should come as no surprise to anyone.

Perhaps if more people such as those of us here, who actually HAVE the brains to use, did the decent thing and boycotted,  this problem would not be so prevalent.


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## Loaded Luke (Oct 23, 2006)

Tez3 said:


> Of course they shouldn't be booing! And it's not whining. Do you get up and fight in the cage or ring? If you do, you would understand that booing is disrespectful, rude and ignorant and should not be part of the "atmosphere" at all! If you don't fight you should maybe think about the guts it takes to get up and do rather than criticise which is what booing is doing. You are condoning that criticism if not actually joining in. Parahaps the UFC should be looking to get a grown up audience in.



Unfortunately a lot of the UFC audience, ie: americans, despite them being grown up are just big kids. the types of people that boo are just dumb, beer drinking Tank fans and don't understand the sport, and shouldn't be taken seriously anyway.


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## Loaded Luke (Oct 23, 2006)

zDom said:


> If the UFC wants to cater to a grown-up audience, maybe they should start by having the competitors act like adults and classy professional athletes instead of like professional wrestlers.
> 
> (and yes, I respect pro wrestlers for their athleticism, but pro wrestling is a exhibition, not a true competition, and the smack talking in pro wrestling is all part of the show)
> 
> As long as the competitors continue to show each other disrespect, it is going to be difficult to demand respect from the audience that kind of behavior attracts.



lol at your post. So just how would you go about having competitors act like grown up adults. Seriously though, the majority of athletes in UFC and most MMA gigs are grown up, respectable fighters and any 'disrespect' or 'smack talk' is just a bit of fun. But theres always the respect there in MMA. You probably watched one of them WWF 'Cage fights' and got it confused with MMA.


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## Carol (Oct 24, 2006)

Odin said:


> Im just having a rant to be honest since I think the new breed of MMA fans that go to these fights dont really understand what they're viewing.


 
As much as I hate to say it, I think you nailed it. I have the same concern with the way some fans boo a submission (because it wasn't a KO). 


Personally I'd like to see something akin to what Fox Sports (I think...) and the NHL did with "NHL Rules"...tightly produced bits explaining one segment of the rules of play were occasionally dropped in to the live production. Perhaps the UFC could do something similar that explains some of the moves and the strategy to the ground game...there is a helluva lot of good stuff to it.


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## zDom (Oct 24, 2006)

Loaded Luke said:


> lol at your post. So just how would you go about having competitors act like grown up adults. Seriously though, the majority of athletes in UFC and most MMA gigs are grown up, respectable fighters and any 'disrespect' or 'smack talk' is just a bit of fun. But theres always the respect there in MMA. You probably watched one of them WWF 'Cage fights' and got it confused with MMA.



Well Luke, thanks to program guides and the prominent display of logos during the program as well as going into and out of commercial breaks, I am pretty good at identifying which program I am watching 

How would I go about getting competitors to act like grown up adults? I would simply disqualify them for unbecoming behavior, just like we do in TMA events. 

Dana White apparently has an agenda, however, that is the complete opposite of this goal.

The fighters are grown ups? Respectable? Sounds like fodder for a debate in another thread at another time. IMO, some are, some aren't.

A "bit of the fun?" I've stated this opinion before, but I'll say it again: in a true competition, anyone who has put the time and effort into training for this type of event and has the balls to put their well-being on the line deserves respect from their opponent. IMO, that kind of "fun" should be saved for exhibits like pro wrestling where we know, without a doubt, it is all "in fun."

But as already noted, Dana is trying to make the sport appealing to the pro wrestling audience, not traditional martial art enthusiasts.

The crowd responses, therefore, are exactly what I would expect.


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## matt.m (Oct 24, 2006)

zDom said:


> Well Luke, thanks to program guides and the prominent display of logos during the program as well as going into and out of commercial breaks, I am pretty good at identifying which program I am watching
> 
> How would I go about getting competitors to act like grown up adults? I would simply disqualify them for unbecoming behavior, just like we do in TMA events.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with zDom and Andy, look I dig watching the WWE on tv.  It is not something I watch for 2 hrs. straight but I do flip a bit.  I tell you guys something else.  I watch the Ultimate Fighter and think all the party nonsense they portray is just ridiculous.  I will watch the fight, maybe, at the end.  I went to an MMA, BJJ, gym and watched them workout Saturday.  They acted like nice and respectable martial artists.  Sorry, there was no b.s. going on.  Just training and trying to be better.

A big majority of the guys in the class were hard workers that also happened to do MMA cage fights locally.  There were no egos during the workout, as it should be.  All egos need to be checked at the door and help one another attitudes should be turned on.

If there was an ego issue in zDom and I's org. it would get squashed on the quick.  Smack talk is for Pro Wrestling, where you expect it to be, not in the Martial Arts world of competition.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm not impressed with the vast majority of people that this sport attracts.  Most of them would be happier at a WWF event and think they were watching an actual competetion.  We show boxing on the TV's at the bar I work at but when "Ultimate Fighting" is on we turn the station because if we don't we usually end up with a group of guys who start throwing elbows at each other and pushing each other around and into others.


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## Odin (Oct 25, 2006)

zDom said:


> If the UFC wants to cater to a grown-up audience, maybe they should start by having the competitors act like adults and classy professional athletes instead of like professional wrestlers.
> 
> (and yes, I respect pro wrestlers for their athleticism, but pro wrestling is a exhibition, not a true competition, and the smack talking in pro wrestling is all part of the show)
> 
> As long as the competitors continue to show each other disrespect, it is going to be difficult to demand respect from the audience that kind of behavior attracts.


 
The level of Competition in the UFC is just alittle different then TMA events though don't you think, there is usually alot more riding on a victory and a lot more media coverage, because of this alot of fighters try to play the mind game with their opponents (very similar to boxing) or even if they don't due to editing its very easy for one to be created, also with TMA events (correct me if im wrong) but it seems you kind of just turn up to fight without actually training for a specific opponent so there's no real time for a rivalry to be created, 
The thing is I don't think you can blame the fighters, I can only think of a couple instances of real unprofessionally in MMA (mark Coleman vs. Shogun Rua is a good example) the rest is what I call Fighting talk, look at boxing Ali he was one of the best smack talkers he didn't really mean the smack he said about his opponents he did it to make them doubt themselves, (believe me a fighting going in to a fight with no confidence is more then likely not going to win ) its the same in MMA ( can I hear a TITO!!)
If anything I think Dana's UFC still show s a hell of a lot of professionalism and respect, only a couple of recent rivalries at the top end of the food chain has created this image and I find it easy to understand for non-long-time MMA fans to be tainted by this image, but if you actually watch the fights week in and week out you can see what is real and what is camera play...hell watch TUF every week  I've never seen a fighter not congratulate the other or buy him a beer after the fight.
As for the comparison of MMA with WWE.....thats just silly...certain fighters sell and certain fighters don't thats far as that goes


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## Tez3 (Oct 25, 2006)

Is any MMA other than UFC shown on American television? It seems to be the only promotion you lot mention.  We have a good many very professional shows here from different promoters. It seems a great many people associate MMA and UFC as one and the same. I went to a recent show where some of the fights were very technical and very well received by the crowd, it's rare to have people booing. Most MCs take the time to explain the various rules and the differences between amateur, semi and pro fights. If people were to boo the MC would tell them tostop, this is resinforced by the security peoples reminding them politely. Perhaps our crowds are less British soccer and more rugby type. (Definition: football is a game of gentlemen played by thugs, rugby is a game of thugs played by gentlemen)


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 25, 2006)

Yeah, UFC really is pretty much is the only "Mainstream" MMA show around on this side of the pond(The spinoff "reality" show does nothing to help its cause, to be honest). You can get Pride on occasion which IMO is far superior in fighter/audience quality but its nowhere near as marketed. This might have changed, so this is probably better answered by someone who actually friiggin' bothers to watch their TV *shrug*

Unfortunately until we can get the message across we won't accept crap, the entertainment industry will keep making it.


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## zDom (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree that editing by UFC producers may be responsible for creating the appearance of "smack talk" even if that is not what the fighters intended.

I blame Dana. He reminds of the guy in high school who would try to start fights for his own entertainment:

(To Guy 1): Hey! That guy is talking about you! (points to Guy 2)
(To Guy 2): Hey! That guy said he is going to kick yer butt! (points to Guy 1)


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## zDom (Oct 25, 2006)

On another note, regarding the "mind game" aspect:

I always do the opposite. I always try to appear to be the meekest competitor in my division, not saying much of anything, soft spoken...

up until the first kihap when they call for fighting stance 

then,

AI - AHHHHHH!

and its ON


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## Tez3 (Oct 26, 2006)

Do people go to shows? Just about every weekend there is a show/sub comp to go to over here. They are mostly of a high standard too. There's the bigger shows Cage Rage and Cagewarriors plus Pride & Glory will be staging big shows in the North-East early next year (btw you heard that here first!) in addition to the usual ones. We have a lot of promoters here who do work with each other to make sure dates don't clash as far as possible. The audiences are knowledgable for the most part and do appreciate the skills involved in MMA so trouble of any kind is rare. Besides who who really be daft enough to kick off at a MMA event with not only the fighters there but with the corners, security and half the audience being fighters too!


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 26, 2006)

See we have nothing like that here. If you went to, like, a major city you might find something but that's all. It isn't as culturally accepted as over there.( I'm not convinced that's a bad thing, knowing of my countrymen what I do).


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## Tez3 (Oct 26, 2006)

That's such a shame! We had an American fighter over to one of our shows, Skip Hall. He was wonderful, he was a real gentleman (in all senses of the word) he charmed my daughter and most of us ladies with his old fashioned charm and courtesy. He fought well against a man, 20 years younger than himself. He was a brilliant ambassador for your country! If anyone is coming over here, pm me and I'll make sure they catch good shows and introduce them to the MMA scene over here if they don't already know it!


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks  If I ever make it over there again I'lll give ya a shout.


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## Tez3 (Oct 27, 2006)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Thanks  If I ever make it over there again I'lll give ya a shout.


 
Do! You will be very welcome! We have a young pro fighter called David Smyth who we are hoping to bring to the States at some point. Only 18 but has just beaten the no 2 ranked fighter in his weight, we are expecting great things of him so you may see us at sometime !


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## Dronak (Oct 28, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:


> I have the same concern with the way some fans boo a submission (because it wasn't a KO).



Yes, it does seem like most viewers are more interested in seeing knockouts than submissions.  That's probably why SpikeTV had Ultimate Knockouts 1-4 a week or so ago, but no Ultimate Submissions (does that exist?).  I may not always be able to follow them because of my limited experience, but I enjoy seeing the submissions more.  To me, submissions seem to require more finesse than knockout punches.  I'm sure that both require some degree of good technique to execute well, but I usually appreciate a submission more than a knockout.  It also seems to me that submissions are a little more humane, showing someone you could do them serious damage but not doing so, rather than striking someone into unconsciousness.  Anyway, those are just my feelings.

I like your idea about shows explaining parts of the rules, moves, and strategy as they go along.  That would be helpful.  I've heard the announcers make some mention of what the fighters are doing, but it's not always great, and I've started to recognize some of the basic moves that appear a lot.  For example, I know many times if a fighter gets the other's back, he's going to try for a rear naked choke, and I know basically what that is.  Most of the times though I end up relying on my year or two of high school wrestling to try to follow ground fighting, because the announcers often don't help much there.

AFAIK, general cable TV here in the USA only has the UFC.  I've heard about other MMA organizations, but don't think I've seen any of them on TV.  It's possible that PPV has more choices, but I've never gotten PPVs.

As far as the booing goes, I agree there's generally no need for it.  Maybe if you disagree with a decision, you'll want to show that.  But most of the time you should just appreciate the skill of the fighters who are entertaining you.

Just some thoughts.


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## OneKickWonder (Oct 30, 2006)

I agree. This is not WWF or WCW. It is not meant to be a big drama. It is about two men getting in the cage and seeing who is the best. PERIOD. Yeah Dana is turning it into some cash along the way and it is helping the sport come out to the public more. But people need to realize that these guys are going to win however they can. If a guy is good on the ground then he is going to go to the ground. Another thing I dont agree with, even though i understand why they do it, is standing the fighters up if they dont throw blows on the ground. If they dont look like they are really putting up a fight on the ground then they stand them up but anyone who does submission wrestling or BJJ knows that when you are on the ground the most important thing you do is STAY CALM, and be patient. It may look like they are not doing anything but they are really working on a submission, well sometimes anyways.


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## Tez3 (Oct 30, 2006)

They don't stand them up for not throwing punches on the floor, they stand them up after a designated time if they are doing nothing at all. that is - they are just 'laying and praying', sometimes a fighter will do nothing knowing they'll be stood up. At the rules meeting before the show this is all explained to fighters. The refs, over here at least, are very experienced and know the difference between working and not working!


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## Loaded Luke (Oct 30, 2006)

Tez3 said:


> They don't stand them up for not throwing punches on the floor, they stand them up after a designated time if they are doing nothing at all!



Unless if theyre called Mike Tyson, good old Mike... sod the wrestling, Iron Mike wanna see the KO


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