# Wing chun only works when you attack???



## kehcorpz (Aug 3, 2016)

I heard this from a wing chun instructor in a video.

Is this true? I mean is this official wing chun philosophy?

If this is really correct and UNLESS you attack at the right time and intercept your enemy
and in case you miss this window of opportunity you get beaten up then this means that wing
chun is really very limited.

I mean what sense does this even make?! 

For example if a wing chun guy only has a chance of winning against somebody else by being 
able to destroy him before the fight really starts then this means that the wing chun defense sucks.

This is like saying boxing only works if you attack. A boxer can also simply keep the distance and not
attack but his defense still works and protects him.

But obviously in wing chun this is not the case otherwise people wouldn't always say "he just stood there"
when a wing chun guy gets beaten up.

Take IP Man 3 for example. Ip Man doesn't always attack like a madman he also deflects punches. He's not
always rushing into his enemies like a train.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2016)

You will never understand.  Give up.  Go away.  You are out of your element.  This is not for you.  You will never ever ever be successful in this.  Stop wasting your time.


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## KPM (Aug 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I heard this from a wing chun instructor in a video.
> 
> .



Stop watching so many videos and go train!


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## wckf92 (Aug 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I heard this from a wing chun instructor in a video.
> 
> Is this true? I mean is this official wing chun philosophy?
> 
> ...


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## kehcorpz (Aug 3, 2016)

I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.


Actually, no.


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## Argus (Aug 3, 2016)

Alright, so I'm going to try to answer this in earnest:

The same goes for any martial art or endeavor.

I enjoy playing chess and shougi.

In the past, I used to play very defensively and had a pretty conservative and "solid" playing style, but I rarely won.

Now, I focus on taking advantage of my opponent's openings more than my own defense, and follow the mantra that "a good offense is a good defense." Even if I am forced to defend myself, I try my best never to make a fully defensive, "wasted" move -- I carefully consider all of my options; can I cover the threat while simultaneously presenting another threat? Can I threaten an even more highly valued piece of his instead, and cause him to defend?

If you miss the chance to defeat your opponent, you're giving him a free pass at defeating you. The more you neglect to take advantage of his openings and the opportunities he presents, the less successful you will be. The most skilled martial artists I have encountered across all arts are the ones who can find and take advantage of the most subtle openings that you don't even realize are there, without hesitation and in the very moment they become available.

Statements that you hear people make who are knowledgeable of martial arts, might very well be lost on you if you don't have the background and experience to put it into context and interpret their meaning. If you haven't done so already, I would encourage you to just go train, as everyone else here has mentioned. Go train anything. And stop trying to judge things that you have no basis of knowledge or experience to judge/interpret. Go with a humble mindset, do, learn, and grow, and you'll find your answers slowly, bit by bit, for yourself, and better than any of us can give you through inadequate words and descriptions on an internet forum.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.


None of your questions are valid anymore because you're a lazy **** who's never going to achieve anything in martial arts because you're a cry baby who hasn't got the guts to train. Go take up knitting or something and stop coming on this board posting stupid questions. You don't even listen to the answers anyway so what's the point kid


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## Tez3 (Aug 4, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Go take up knitting



Not knitting please, I don't want him going on knitting forums asking inane questions there please!


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## SaulGoodman (Aug 4, 2016)

You do realize ip man 3 was a movie.. right?


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## Phobius (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.



Your question is weird.

If you never attack, can you win? If a boxer never punches can he win? In theory it is possible, in reality not so much.

Are you asking if a Wing Chun need to attack first in order to win? Well in that case, of course not. Can a Wing Chun dude win by never attacking? Probably, try deflecting someones fist into a wall or something. Would I recommend it in a self defense scenario? Probably not but at least it is very much possible. I think in that case a fight would be over.

Another way to win a fight without attacking would be to videotape the guy assaulting you and stay defensive until the cops arrive, then say you had your friend videotape the whole thing how this guy unprovoked just started attacking you.

Or if your gender allows it, be a wife to someone. You win almost every single dispute without attacking once. Me being a husband to my wife have personal experience of such disputes.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.



Well, normal for YOU, maybe. Not normal for most others.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 4, 2016)

I think you dont get my point.

Of course you cannot win be defending only.

My question is will a wing chun get automatically get beaten up if he doesn't launch counter attacks every single time when the other person attacks?

Can he not just be forced to for example do a couple of defense blocks and move back a bit cause the attacker is launching heavy attacks or does he simply have to move forward into the attacker no matter what?

I watched the fight scenes from Ip Man in slow-mo and Ip Man is defending attacks and moving backwards a lot! The other guy is just throwing kicks and punches all the time. I think in this situation all he could do was block and move backwards.

Cause this is what the "teacher" basically said.


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## SaulGoodman (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I think you dont get my point.
> 
> Of course you cannot win be defending only.
> 
> ...



You're f?ck@ng with us now aren't you...


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## Argus (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I think you dont get my point.
> 
> Of course you cannot win be defending only.
> 
> ...



Now I'm starting to wonder if you're trolling. No disrespect intended if you aren't.

Ip Man is a movie. Movies are choreographed and the fight scenes that appear in them are for entertainment purposes. They are not realistic. I'm pretty sure you know this, hence my suspicion that you are trolling.

Also, there are no universal truths along the lines of "You should always(/never) absolutely do X 100% of the time without exception."

Everything is dependent on context, and most things have an appropriate context and an exception to every rule.

If you think that a given person made a such an unflexible statement and meant it the way that you are taking it, I doubt that you are correct in how you interpreted his meaning. He was likely talking in a general sense, and you are taking him in too literal a sense.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 4, 2016)

I am not kidding.

Show me a video of a fight where a wing chun guy is able to fend off attacks and then wins.

In the vids I see they get run over and that's the end of the story.

And then the explanation is: Ah he was just standing here. He should have circled around him and so on.

Why does "just standing there" mean that you have to get your *** kicked? That's my point.

If the wing chun defense works then you should be able to "just stand there" and still fend off the attacks.


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## SaulGoodman (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I am not kidding.
> 
> Show me a video of a fight where a wing chun guy is able to fend off attacks and then wins.
> 
> ...



Grow up and stop asking the same questions again and again. Your questions have been answered by people with collectively many years of training and I daresay real experience. If you're not trolling then you are incredibly naive and either need to go and get some hands on training or quit wasting people's time on this forum.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I think you dont get my point.
> 
> Of course you cannot win be defending only.
> 
> ...



IP MAN IS A MOVIE IT'S NOT REAL


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## wckf92 (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I watched the fight scenes from Ip Man in slow-mo and Ip Man is defending attacks and moving backwards a lot! The other guy is just throwing kicks and punches all the time. I think in this situation all he could do was block and move backwards.



you do realize you are referencing *A MOVIE* right?!?!?!?!?

   

Do your parents know you have access to the internet?


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 4, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> you do realize you are referencing *A MOVIE* right?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> Do your parents know you have access to the internet?


What? no way it's obviously real are you actually saying ip man didnt beat up 10 black belts in a second underground fight club during ww2, god next you'll be telling me daniel larusso didnt beat a bunch of black belts in a tournament after training for a month


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## Argus (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I am not kidding.
> 
> Show me a video of a fight where a wing chun guy is able to fend off attacks and then wins.
> 
> ...



...

Okay, let's go with this instead:

Wing Chun is BS and doesn't work. Youtube proves this, and we can't prove differently. Except for Donnie Yen, who obviously has good WC, as demonstrated by the Ip Man movies.

Therefore, you should either go learn from Donnie Yen, or not practice Wing Chun.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I heard this from a wing chun instructor in a video.
> 
> Is this true? I mean is this official wing chun philosophy?
> 
> ...


Actually, if you understood ANY martial art, you'd understand this. It's simple. It's true of WC and every other art (including boxing) when you're talking about the offensive techniques. I'd explain more, but it would be a waste of breath.


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## JPinAZ (Aug 5, 2016)

Kehcorpz, maybe it would help you understand the replies better and find some answers for yourself if you took a few classes. Where did you say you live? I'm sure someone here can help find a school near you that will allow you to take some trial classes or pay month-to-month until you decide if it's right for you.


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## anerlich (Aug 5, 2016)

John Danaher today made an excellent post on Facebook about proactive and reactive fighters, mainly to do with Jiu Jitsu of course, but also discussing early Mike Tyson.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 5, 2016)

The answer is 42.  Perhaps it is time to move on, now.


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## drop bear (Aug 5, 2016)

Ok.  Here is an idea. 

There is no defence. 
There is attack.
And counter attack.


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## Juany118 (Aug 6, 2016)




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## JP3 (Aug 7, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I was just asking a normal question. And a valid one, too.


...
...um...  not so much, no.

I don't practice WC at all.  I think it's cool to do, and worth training in, but what I think you are missing is that was: A) a training philosophy, or a paradigm, of the video taped instructor, which may or may not be valid for the entire spectrum of all things WC; or B) it might just be there to wind people up, either to make money, boost prestige, etc.

As stated above. Get in a school and do it yourself. Take in knowledge in time mattered in years, not days, then evaluate your initial post for yourself.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 7, 2016)

I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!

I need to figure this out somehow.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 7, 2016)

Actually I would say it was true of any art. If you aren't aware, and some guy walks up and kicks you in the back of the head, right away, you are on the defensive.


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## Juany118 (Aug 7, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!
> 
> I need to figure this out somehow.



The problem is we have all told you that, ultimately no MA is inherently superior to another.  What matters is simply...

1. Does the art "feel right" to you.  Meaning does it feel comfortable to you and does its method fits with your personal mind set.
2. The instructor.  Are they knowledgeable and does their teaching methods work for you.

We can't help you with these two things and the only way you will ever find out is if you go out your door, walk in the door to a school, and try it.


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## Nobody Important (Aug 7, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!
> 
> I need to figure this out somehow.


You need to realize & accept no matter how good you are that you'll get hit, often. It isn't like the movies. Real fighting is about who can withstand the most punishment & come out on top or dish out the most punishment as quick as possible. No simple magic moves, just realistic goal oriented training. None of which will be found on YouTube


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## Juany118 (Aug 7, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> You need to realize & accept no matter how good you are that you'll get hit, often. It isn't like the movies. Real fighting is about who can withstand the most punishment & come out on top or dish out the most punishment as quick as possible. No simple magic moves, just realistic goal oriented training. None of which will be found on YouTube



I tend to say "there is no secret sauce."  You will never find a legitimate Martial Art that doesn't share some move or technique with another Art.  The trick is to find the one whose combination of techniques "feels right" and a teacher whose style of teaching fits not only your purpose but your style of learning.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 7, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> You need to realize & accept no matter how good you are that you'll get hit, often. It isn't like the movies. Real fighting is about who can withstand the most punishment & come out on top or dish out the most punishment as quick as possible. No simple magic moves, just realistic goal oriented training. None of which will be found on YouTube


Unless, of course, somebody sneaks and puts that on YouTube.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 8, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!
> 
> I need to figure this out somehow.


But you've got time to whine on the Internet the amount of time you've been on this board you could've tried a number of Martial arts but you're just sat down watching stupid videos


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## Phobius (Aug 8, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!
> 
> I need to figure this out somehow.



If you had started training you would not have wasted several months already on this quest of yours.

Problem is not in the arts most of the times, problem is the one practising it. In your case you think you can know so much that even if you do attend class you would probably not learn anything at all. Because of this, you can not become a real true martial artist.

Also you fail to realize that it would not have mattered had you started training a bad martial art, as long as it did not damage your knees or something. Reason being that you, if being true to yourself and always testing yourself and trying to be better, would have found your own path and made skills be something that works for you.

Now however if you just want to mimic videos, or your teacher should you someday get one, you will never become a real martial artist. There is no mimic in fighting so stop trying to think it should be there in your art. Copying your teacher or video down to every detail is failing to understand what message is being conveyed and what skill is needed to be taught. So chase these videos of yours and try to figure out more but ironically the more you chase your "truth" the further away from your goals will you be.


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## Danny T (Aug 8, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!
> 
> I need to figure this out somehow.


I don't think you are willing for ASAP.
Problem is you don't what to take the time needed to learn it 'As Soon As Possible'. 
You want it immediately and without putting in any real effort on your part to actually have the skills.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 8, 2016)

Phobius said:


> If you had started training you would not have wasted several months already on this quest of yours.
> 
> Problem is not in the arts most of the times, problem is the one practising it. In your case you think you can know so much that even if you do attend class you would probably not learn anything at all. Because of this, you can not become a real true martial artist.
> 
> ...



I think the best way to describe it is Bruce lees cup theory this guys cup if full already so he can't learn anything he thinks he knows everything already. That and he's lazy **** lol.

The best way I saw it explained which came into my mind reading your comment was the movie forbidden kingdom where jackie chans training this Kung fu fan. The kids talking about all the awesome moves he's seen in movies and video games and chan is pouring a drink for him and starts overflowing it the kid says "hey stop the cups full" jackie chan says "exactly how can I add more when there's no more space how can I teach you Kung fu when you already know so much" sums up this guy perfectly


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## mograph (Aug 8, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> You will never understand.  Give up.  Go away.  You are out of your element.  This is not for you.  You will never ever ever be successful in this.  Stop wasting your time.


Oh, you and your Jedi mind tricks.


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## mograph (Aug 8, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I do not have years to do a martial art only to realize that it sucks. I need to know what's good and what's not good ASAP!


WC doesn't suck.

Help us out here. Could you describe the qualities of a martial art that _doesn't _suck?


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## Paul_D (Aug 8, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I heard this from a wing chun instructor in a video.
> 
> Is this true?



I heard from a man in a video that the Royal Family are shape shifting lizards.

Andrew Neil casually asks David Icke about Royals being shape-shifting lizards

Is this true?


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## mograph (Aug 8, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> I heard from a man in a video that the Royal Family are shape shifting lizards.


I, for one, welcome our shape-shifting Royal lizard overlords.


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