# angels



## tshadowchaser (Jun 2, 2007)

Guarding Angels


I believe that there is some thing, call it a angel or whatever you want, that speaks to us at times. Some people say it is our own inner thoughts working   at a level we hear only when debating with ourselves, but I think that there may be something bigger working.  I feel that there are things in this world that we can not see and do not understand and that angels are one of them.  No I am not saying that these beings are what is described in the bible but rather what has been described as guarding angels.  
I believe that if we ask a question or ask for help and truly listen deep inside that we can be guided. I also believe that   what some might call spiritual healing may be these beings helping us to pass healing energy to others by us opening ourselves up and becoming conduits.  However I believe that we must ask for that guidance to help others not to use for our own benefit or to make ourselves more powerful/bigger/important, because these gifts of healing or deeper insight into how to solve problems comes not from us but to and maybe through us.   

I may not be putting these things down well for you to read because I rarely discuss such things with those I do not know well so please excuse my perhaps poor wording.

So any thought on the subject(s) I have stated?


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## stickarts (Jun 2, 2007)

Although I generally try and see things in a concrete and logical manner, I have experienced some very strange things in my life that have seemed far too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence. 
For example, sometimes a string of very bizarre events would happen to prevent me from doing something I had wanted badly, only to find out that I was actually saved from making a *BIG* mistake.
Other times I would by chance meet up with someone I haven't seen years,  in an unexpected setting, who then helped me in something I was seeking but had no success until then. The odds of the timing of this happening were so remote.
Even within the senses that we are given there is so much that we just don't understand. How much is going on around us that we cannot even perceive with any of our 5 senses?
Some kind of guardian or other forces at work?
Could be. I can't rule it out.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 2, 2007)

Good examples of what I was talking about and I know I can not rule out that such events where not perhaps guided by a angel


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## bluemtn (Jun 2, 2007)

Same here...  Too many things have happened in my life, where I really can't just rule out the possibility.  I've tried looking at it in a more logical way, but the odds of there not being such a thing are very small (in what I've seen, anyways).  Some things start from before I was born, according to my mom.  There were some problems that were a serious concern, but she was aparently "told" to hurry to the hospital, and then a little later on, was "told" everything was ok, when no one was around to say such things...  Also, I felt led at times on decisions...


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## Tames D (Jun 2, 2007)

No doubt in my mind.


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## RED (Jun 2, 2007)

There has been a lot of ironic things happen in my life at just the right time. Coincedence...maybe...I find it odd how some people have a rough life with much tradgedy and some have what seems to be a lot of luck. Is it angles...maybe.

While sitting with my mother as she was dieing of Limphoma she sat straight up in bed in excitement because she saw her grandmother in the room. She was completely "out of it" previously. One of the wildest things I've ever seen. I just got a book from the library yesterday on Near death experiences that discribes similar things. Are these angles? I don't know but the book is very interesting. "Saved By The Light" is the name of the book.


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## tellner (Jun 3, 2007)

The miraculous survivors are the ones who write the stories. The poor S.O.B.s who should have lived but didn't don't. The ratchet only turns one way for the True Believer. There are things in the universe that I don't understand, but it would be damned foolish to rely on some mythical mystical force to protect my life. As the noble Quran (which has a lot to say about angels) tells us "Trust G-d, but tie your camel." Some practitioners of the Subtle Arts - sorcerors, ceremonial magicians, Thelemites and whatnot - have rituals for contacting one's Holy Guardian Angel. I'm inclined to take that with a grain or two of salt, where "grain or two" is about fifty pounds.

Besides, saying "My guardian angel will protect me" is daring the Powers that Be. In effect your putting the onus on G-d rather than taking responsibility for your own actions. It's like the guy with a treatable disease who junks the meds and goes with faith healing alone. He's saying "G-d, it's your fault if I live or die." Blackmailing the Almighty is not a terribly bright thing to do.


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## heretic888 (Jun 3, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> So any thought on the subject(s) I have stated?



I believe such phenomena have no reality outside human consciousness.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure "guardian angels" are real psychological experiences. Just as "UFO abductions" are real psychological experiences and "Satanic kidnappings" are real psychological experiences. They are very real and very powerful and can't just be explained away.

However, none of this stuff corresponds in the slightest with reality "out there". They are tools (perhaps related to Jungian archetypes) that our mind provides us to filter and interpret reality. These tools are a product of our evolutionary ancestry.

Just as "UFO abductions" and "Satanic kidnappings" (both of which almost always involve sexual abuse or molestation but with a "higher purpose" supplied to them) are most probably imaginative reworkings of childhood abuse, I suspect "guardian angels" are a phenomena in the same vein but in a positive direction. That is, imaginative reworkings (almost assuredly unconscious) of "close calls" that leave the impression there is some benevolent force watching over us.

Never doubt the power of the human mind to find patterns where none may exist. This is what has enabled our species to survive for 50,000 years.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jun 3, 2007)

Two questions are inherent in the proposition, neither of which is a provable assertion at this point in technology.

1. Is there a possibility of consciousness not bound to mass?

2. Can such sentient awareness, if it is so, interact with mass-bound consciousness?

I am inclined to hallucinate the ongoing presence of tutelary spirits, beneficient and malevolent.

But I'm not insisting anybody else does.

Dave


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## Kacey (Jun 3, 2007)

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."  Hamlet, Act I, scene V, Shakespeare

Are there guardian angels?  I don't know.  Are there things that happen - both good and bad - that cannot be explained?  Certainly.  _Could_ guardian angels be responsible?  That is no more, and no less, likely than quite a few other explanations.


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## Shaderon (Jun 3, 2007)

tshadowchaser..... thing of this one thing.  The word "Inspiration" means "The Spirit Within".

In my understanding, this "inner voice" or guardian angel is the higher self, the part of the self which is connected to the "great spirit" or the collective consiousness... god if you like.   We are like leaves on a tree, each one individual and unique, but we are all a part of the whole and belong to it, we can feel we exist alone, and even forget about other leaves, but we are attached to each other through the tree whether we perceive it or not.  This is how I do the healing I mentioned in another post, I mentally reach through the branches and find the leaf (person) I need to work on.


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## Nobody (Jun 3, 2007)

I kinda agree on this that we first have to open up to the idea of what we want to learn an then we can see for are selves that the idea was there all along an this does have the feeling of coming from some other source at times that feeling of aepiphany("bing" the light goes on).  

The mind an soul do seem to be guided by are need to define an understand are reality so we find the answer to these huge an epic question when they appear as guided by something more.  The truth is changing an rarely ever truth once it passes that moment in time.  We wake up to find that we are same but with one new idea guiding use to are next little adventure into are own soul of doubt.  When we experience a small triumph we need to feel connected to the greater whole an not feel alone or isolated from the Human connection defining it by are fears the guiding Angel.

That said i do believe that with all the animals just now still being discovered in the world though are reality seems to be shrinking  more than likely real angels exist.  They probably vibrate faster than are brains can see of sense them at or something like that.

Example of the century finds that blow my mind in animals.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4688000.stm

Though this seems off subject it is part of the human condition to look to the earth for we still have not defined all of are surrounding as of yet we still look out into the sky with delight and fear we will be discarded for are failure to maintain are struggle against greater odds than we are awake to at anyone day of are life's.  

Well is this a new idea or is it all just a piece from the greater part of man that we all would like to think we understand an choose ways to help find understanding are own answers, did we receive help in the end we are the only one's that can choose to know such a thing as that.

If you just want to know than the answer is yes i believe an do think that this is what we mean when we think of are guide.  We share this idea of questioning an questing all at once an when we find are place it does seem that there was a guide.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 3, 2007)

Some interesting comments so far in the thread.  I can understand where both those that belive and those that disbelive come frome.
I will agree that to put ones life in the hands of these guardians and not do anything for one slef would be foolish. But to not listen to something (be it outside of our slef or from with in our own mind) I think might also be foolish.

I quess if I look at both sides of a guarding then there must also be those "spirits" that are not guardings and are out there to do us harm


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## Callandor (Jun 3, 2007)

heretic888 said:


> However, none of this stuff corresponds in the slightest with reality "out there". They are tools (perhaps related to Jungian archetypes) that our mind provides us to filter and interpret reality. These tools are a product of our evolutionary ancestry.


I agree that our mind filters and interprets reality. By accepting this, is it safe to say that, sometimes, reality is interpreted in a slightly different way depending on who does the interpreting? If so, while none of these stuff would correspond to someone's interpretation of reality, might it correspond to another's?

Anyway, modern physics would seem to say that reality is not so real after all. Scary, it is.

Perhaps I could say that: Reality is but a dream and dreams are my reality. :ultracool


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## Shaderon (Jun 4, 2007)

Callandor said:


> I agree that our mind filters and interprets reality. By accepting this, is it safe to say that, sometimes, reality is interpreted in a slightly different way depending on who does the interpreting? If so, while none of these stuff would correspond to someone's interpretation of reality, might it correspond to another's?
> 
> Anyway, modern physics would seem to say that reality is not so real after all. Scary, it is.
> 
> Perhaps I could say that: Reality is but a dream and dreams are my reality. :ultracool


 

Getting kinda "Matrix'y" here Callandor ...   It's a good, very deep thinking post.


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## Callandor (Jun 4, 2007)

Shaderon said:


> Getting kinda "Matrix'y" here Callandor ...


Yup, something like that. 
:matrix:

Niels Bohr once said: _"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet."_


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## CoryKS (Jun 4, 2007)

Unless and until an angel shows itself *Pwanggg!!!* and identifies itself as an angel, I'm going to continue to disbelieve their existence.  If you want me to believe in you, homeboy, you're gonna have to step up and claim responsibility for your work.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 4, 2007)

why must they show themsleves to you why is it you do not belive they can speak to you?  just asking
science finds out more and more about the universe every day and old theories are discarded as new ones are formulated, so why discard something just because we have no visible truth to it at this time


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## CoryKS (Jun 4, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> why must they show themsleves to you why is it you do not belive they can speak to you? just asking
> science finds out more and more about the universe every day and old theories are discarded as new ones are formulated, so *why discard something just because we have no visible truth to it at this time*


 
I don't see it as too much to ask, really.  I mean, asking for verifiable existence is pretty much setting your standards to the lowest possible setting other than just believing in every oddball theory including dragons, smurfs, and Scientology.


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## heretic888 (Jun 4, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> why must they show themsleves to you why is it you do not belive they can speak to you?  just asking
> science finds out more and more about the universe every day and old theories are discarded as new ones are formulated, so why discard something just because we have no visible truth to it at this time



Occam's Razor.


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## Lisa (Jun 4, 2007)

heretic888 said:


> Occam's Razor.



*Thread Gank*

Started a new thread on the discussion of Occam's Razor.  Thanks Heretic888!

Back to angels.

I always say I have guardian angels, so I guess I am a believer in them.  I don't know if they really exist or not and truthfully I don't care.  They make me feel better.  My guardian angels are those people whom I have loved and lost and it makes me feel better believing that they are still with me in someway, looking out for my best interests and well being.  It helps me accept the loss I feel and I am okay with that.


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## Callandor (Jun 4, 2007)

Lisa said:


> I don't know if they really exist or not and truthfully I don't care.  They make me feel better.


I concur. Nothing else matters.


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## stickarts (Jun 5, 2007)

I personally don't see how one can get through life without having some kind of faith in someone or something!
There is a lot that we don't understand, can't fully prove, and there are no guarrantees that you will even wake up the next morning after you go to sleep! It would seem difficult to need absolute proof in everything that you do before you make a move!
I suspect that more people actually operate on faith, at times,  than they realize.


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## kaizasosei (Jun 5, 2007)

all depends what one calls an angel..
for a while now, i have considered angels to be personifications of natural powers or metaphysical concepts.  in this sense, angels could be seen as something nonphysical...i dont know if it is possible to see something that is nonphysical.
  i also cannot see my own soul or the pain of another human...the best i could do is try to feel or empathize.

also, considering the position of such angels, the classic ideas of angel may be misleading...maybe also there could be many levels of angels from personal to archetypal.  just like a government authority some might not be able to judge well but simply separate a from b...
of course, as it says in judaism, that man is part of god, we have the abililty to choose whoever or whatever we trust.  

j


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## heretic888 (Jun 5, 2007)

Callandor said:


> I concur. Nothing else matters.



It depends on one's sense of values and priorities, I suppose.


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