# Siu Nim Tao



## Highlander (May 20, 2019)

What are some "little ideas" you like to think about when practicing this form?
-No thoughts at all, moving meditation 
-keep stance low, body straight
-Body weight behind all movements 
-Heavy elbows, relaxed shoulders 
-Breathe


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## Danny T (May 20, 2019)

Mental intent.


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## Highlander (May 21, 2019)

Let's go a step deeper... what do you think each section is teaching you. 
(Maybe give a short rundown of the movement of the sections since we all do it differently)


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## Danny T (May 21, 2019)

Relaxation, Forward intent, Centerline theory, 6 major gates, Stance structure, Recognizing and adjusting small changes in one's center of gravity and how proper breathing is coordinated with limb movements, Facing concepts, Elbow control and placement, Wrist abduction, Understanding of body mechanics - where the body is mechanically stronger vs muscularly stronger, Immovable elbow theory, Joint connectivity and aligning of the body to the ground for power generation.


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## yak sao (May 21, 2019)

To add to an already great list, I would say that SNT teaches mindfulness. It is important to be aware of what your body is doing and how to  execute a movement with proper body mechanics before you have the stress, both physically and emotionally, of a live opponent in front of you.
Once developed, this "SNT state", helps you to stay relaxed when under pressure of a live opponent.


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## Highlander (May 21, 2019)

[QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,[/QUOTE]
Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?


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## Xue Sheng (May 22, 2019)

Just so you all know, this conversation got me working on Siu Nim Tao. Still think it is one of the best Qigong training forms I ever learned....well I didn't learn it as qigong, but that is how I use it



Highlander said:


> [QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,


Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]

You never heard of those!? I know about those and I'm not a Wing Chun guy. However one of our Wing Chun folks can explain it better than I


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## yak sao (May 22, 2019)

Highlander said:


> [QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,


Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]

Probably more of a terminology thing rather than something you don't do.

I take it to mean staying square to your opponent so that you have equal access to both hands at all times,, centerline and all that,  and also the Huen sao movement that is throughout the form to develop wrist flexibility and to strengthen the forearms for better punching stability.


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## yak sao (May 22, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Just so you all know, this conversation got me working on Siu Nim Tao.I



It's like they say, you can take the boy out of Wing Chun but you can't take the WIng Chun out of the boy.
Hey, that can be a new maxim....please see other thread.


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## Xue Sheng (May 22, 2019)

yak sao said:


> It's like they say, you can take the boy out of Wing Chun but you can't take the WIng Chun out of the boy.
> Hey, that can be a new maxim....please see other thread.



I can say with confidence, if I was younger, before taijiquan and xingyiquan, I would likely be a Wing Chun/JKD guy. But I'm old, arthritic and decrepit and a taijiquan/xingyiquan guy.

Actually the first brief intro I had to JKD, while I was hitting a heavy bag, the instructor asked me, "So how long did you train Wing Chun" and I had told him nothing about my martial arts background prior to that. All I had then and pretty much all I have now, was Siu Nim Tao.


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## Martial D (May 22, 2019)

yak sao said:


> To add to an already great list, I would say that SNT teaches mindfulness. It is important to be aware of what your body is doing and how to  execute a movement with proper body mechanics before you have the stress, both physically and emotionally, of a live opponent in front of you.
> Once developed, this "SNT state", helps you to stay relaxed when under pressure of a live opponent.


There is an argument for that, but I'm not totally convinced any more.

Yes, this is true if the movements you are drilling mirror live movements, but in the case of slt(snt), that is very difficult to bring about. In my experience once live training is introduced to WC, or any system for that matter, the movements will adapt to that.


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## Danny T (May 22, 2019)

Highlander said:


> [QUOTE="6 major gates, Facing concepts, Wrist abduction,


Never really heard of these. Would you be willing to give a little more detail ?[/QUOTE]
Must be a terminology difference. These are highly regarded in every wing chun style I've seen.
6 major gates: Body is sectioned off into 2 upper gates, 2 middle gates, 2 lower gates
 
Facing is positioning one's self in such a manner your 6 gates are facing the opponent's 3. This allows you to bring most all your weapons to bear verses only one side for the opponent.
 
Wrist abduction is the final aspect for penetration in punching and using numerous hands as well as in several aspects of the bart jom do.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 22, 2019)

Danny T said:


> 6 major gates: Body is sectioned off into 2 upper gates, 2 middle gates, 2 lower gates


Not sure the usage of this definition. Could you give more detail on this?

I have heard

3 gates:

1. wrist gate,
2. elbow gate,
3. shoulder/head gate.

4 sides:

1st side - outside of your right leg.
2nd side - Inside of your right leg.
3rd side - Inside of your left leg.
4th side - outside of your left leg.

2 doors:

1. front door - in front of you. This also include 1 front door (space between arms) and 2 side doors (space outside arms).
2. back door - behind of you.


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## Highlander (May 22, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Must be a terminology difference.


Okay yeah the last two are what I was thinking about too.
Never heard of the six gates tho, atleast I dont recall


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## yak sao (May 22, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Okay yeah the last two are what I was thinking about too.
> Never heard of the six gates tho, atleast I dont recall



In WT, it's more of a long pole thing not so much empty hand....At least the way it was taught to me


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## Danny T (May 22, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Not sure the usage of this definition. Could you give more detail on this?
> 
> I have heard
> 
> ...


It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.


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## Highlander (May 23, 2019)

Danny T said:


> It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
> 2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
> There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.


Ooo okay. So just splitting the body into sections that define where the hands/feet defend? We definitely talk about this lol.


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## Danny T (May 23, 2019)

Highlander said:


> Ooo okay. So just splitting the body into sections that define where the hands/feet defend? We definitely talk about this lol.


Not just for defending, entering, trapping, and controlling.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 23, 2019)

Danny T said:


> It's quite simple; it just as shown in the drawing.
> 2 upper gates, middle gates, lower gates divided by the centerline. They are defined in SNT in the beginning where the wrists cross on the crossing gaun sao and crossing taun sao.
> There are specific structures used to defend the different gates as well as for attacking into the opponent's gates. And the hands do not go outside of the gates.


IMO, the depth concept (such as wrist gate, elbow gate, and shoulder gate) should be included. This can make your 6 gates concept from 2D into 3D.

Also a low roundhouse kick to the outside of your opponent's right leg (1st side) vs. to the inside of his right leg (2nd side) will require different set up, hand skill, and follow through.


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## Danny T (May 23, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, the depth concept (such as wrist gate, elbow gate, and shoulder gate) should be included. This can make your 6 gates concept from 2D into 3D.
> 
> Also a low roundhouse kick to the outside of your opponent's right leg (1st side) vs. to the inside of his right leg (2nd side) will require different set up, hand skill, and follow through.


I don't disagree. Such is taught as points of contact in SNT and further developed in Chum Kiu, in the Jook Jong training as well as in Biu Jee and the Bart Jom do.


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## wckf92 (May 23, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, the depth concept (such as wrist gate, elbow gate, and shoulder gate) should be included. This can make your 6 gates concept from 2D into 3D.
> 
> Also a low roundhouse kick to the outside of your opponent's right leg (1st side) vs. to the inside of his right leg (2nd side) will require different set up, hand skill, and follow through.



Agreed. I was taught 8 gates, but also the other three you mentioned.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 24, 2019)

One important strategy in all striking art is to push your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. I have not heard many boxing coaches talk about this. I also have not heard many CMA (and WC) instructors talk about this.


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## wckf92 (May 24, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> One important strategy in all striking art is to push your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. I have not heard many boxing coaches talk about this. I also have not heard many CMA (and WC) instructors talk about this.



IME...the arm jam (elbow) you mentioned is taught in SLT


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## Danny T (May 24, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> One important strategy in all striking art is to push your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. I have not heard many boxing coaches talk about this. I also have not heard many CMA (and WC) instructors talk about this.





wckf92 said:


> IME...the arm jam (elbow) you mentioned is taught in SLT


Hmm.
Yep and in my experience is taught rather early in snt. Is also an important aspect for facing (aligning 6 gates to 3)


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## Marnetmar (May 26, 2019)

Don't kick yourself in the nuts while doing SNT


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## Yoshiyahu (Jun 20, 2019)

I focus on breathing, I focus on filling the tan tien with chi and then using the Yi to spread the chi to my limps, i focus on issuing chi with mental intent after each movement of the hand. At first i imagine one person standing infront of me, or i would do it infront of the wooden man. I would imagine using portions on a person or the wooden dummy. An i would also imagine how the different angles and levels can be altered for different scenarios and different size people as well as different movements. I would later imagine three people one infront of me and one to the sides of me. Then I would do the form in three directions with people standing on either side...first i would do it standing straight up in yee gee kim yeung ma, then i would turn side ways and do it on each side. that makes three times.


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