# costs...



## satans.barber (Apr 11, 2002)

Since a lot of the people in here are from the USA and such places, I'm intrigued to know what your training costs you and what you get for it.

Since I'm in sunny old England, let's work on 1.6$/£, that's about right, so (for me):


annual membership = £20.00 ~= $32.00
1 hour training         = £3.50   ~= $5.60

Training is available threee times a week, and I go twice a week (I can't afford three times).

For the hours training it's only really about 50-55 mins since our instructor allows no time between Juniors and Seniors and has to collect our money. We then do about 15 mins of warm up, giving us an average actual training time of about 40 minutes.

The grading fees vary by belt:

Yellow    - Brown Tip = £20.00 ~= $32.00
Brown 3 - Brown 1    = £25.00 ~= $40.00
Black                         = £50.00 ~= $80.00

Grading are available 4 times per year, and includes new belt (or bit of electrical tape...) and certificate.

Now I think that's quite expensive, especially the three and a half quid for what boils down to 40 minutes training. 

Do you guys train longer for less money, or longer for about the same amount, or what?

Just interested to know,

Ian.


p.s. you may enjoy laughing at my gory wound:

http://www.satans.barber.btinternet.co.uk/files/eye.jpg


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 12, 2002)

The famos Eye Brow Block.
I've done that one a few times in my life.
I dont pay a cent when I train with my ctors. It comes out of me in blood sweat, and intense effort.


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## Blindside (Apr 12, 2002)

As an instructor I no longer have to pay anything, but our standard rates are $40 (US)/month for adults plus a $10 annual insurance fee.  This fee allows training at either or both of the two studios (located about 15 miles apart).  One studio has class MW, the other TTH with an open class on Sat.  Classes are two hours long per night.  Conceivably you could train 5 days per week, but few do, as this would leave most of us quivering wrecks.  I usually attend and instruct 3 days a week at my home studio, and occaisonally jump in a class at the other studio.

There are no belt testing fees, and equipment, uniforms, etc. is sold at wholesale cost to students.  We're not really in it for the money, neither head instructor is trying to make their living off of kenpo.  


Lamont


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## Richard S. (Apr 12, 2002)

i guess it differs place to place bro, with my Wing Chun i attend 4  2hr classes a week & since ive been with my teacher for a while, he gives me a break (we have a sliding scale, the longer you train, the less you pay.) so i pay 40$U.S. a month.   BUT, with my Taijiquan class i attend 1-1hr. class a week, and shell out 50$ per mo.   anyway, its all more than worth it to me because i dont bowl and i hate golf..............respects.


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## FLY (Apr 12, 2002)

The dojo that I train at is open Mon - Fri from 9am - 9pm and Sat from 10am - 4pm.  There are adult group class everyday from 12 -1pm and again at 6 - 7pm, with kids group at 5 - 5:45pm weekdays and 2 - 2:45pm on Saturdays.  We also have sparring from 8 - 9pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
All classes above are free to all students.
The rest of the time is available to book 1/2 hour private lessons.
Coming in at just under $900/year, there are three payment options.
In my case, I pay $95 down, then $20 for my first private every week, and $15 for any extra private lesson I wish to book in the same week. 
Testing and promotions are done during private lessons when you are ready...there is no set time limit between belts, everyone goes at their own pace.  There is no extra cost for testing/promotion (except $10 for a new belt )
Oh ya.....almost forgot to mention that up to 4 family/friends can train together for the same price as one person (you pay for time not per person)

My Sensei does make a living at this, so I do expect his prices to be a little higher that someone who teaches only in the evenings after their regular day at work.  

All prices mentioned are in Canadian funds (so that's like what?...50 cents U.S. for a private lesson )

:asian:


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## tunetigress (Apr 12, 2002)

Jeesh Fly, ya beat me to it!  And for that $900 bucks (about oh, $600 or less US) you get as much Kenpo as you can stand per week.  And even better, since he does it all day as a business, it's always open to go in and check out the manuals, magazines, or just give everyone a hard time!  Makes me wish I was still able to train there Fly, it was a good gig!    :asian:


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## FLY (Apr 12, 2002)

I'll agree with u on that tune.....I think it's a pretty good deal.  For only $20/week u can train 13.5 hours(all groups, sparring and 1 lesson).:duel: 
Unfortunately I only make it there for about 5-6 hours on a good week.:waah: 

:asian:


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## satans.barber (Apr 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tshadowchaser _
> 
> *The famos Eye Brow Block.
> I've done that one a few times in my life.
> *



I never said it was a training wound... 

I actually had a small mishap with a sledge hammer whilst I was breaking some furnature up for a fire, going to leave a nice scar too  

I have a scar on the other side from when these lads came up behind me on bikes and then threw a brick at me head (and no, I didn't get retribution as I they rode off, and I was trying not to black out anyway!).

Ian.


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## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

I have found that the really good instructors don't actually charge that much.

The ones that charge an arm and a leg to train with them make me laugh. In fact, the students that pay these prices make me laugh even more.


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## FLY (Apr 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I have found that the really good instructors don't actually charge that much.
> 
> The ones that charge an arm and a leg to train with them make me laugh. In fact, the students that pay these prices make me laugh even more. *



Just out of curiousity Gou, what do you consider to be an arm and a leg in terms of cost?
Considering the amount of possible/available training, do you think the cost that I described is too high?
Personally, I think it is an acceptable price (or else I wouldn't be training there )
What do students pay for kenpo training in your area?

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

I think it's a rip when a guy who's been doing Kenpo for 12 years or so charges 50% more than a guy like Conatser or Planas for private lessons. That's what I think a rip is.

I think it's a rip when people nickle and dime you to death. When they peddle every little thing in the dojo. That's what I think a rip is.

The worst thing is people will pay these high fees because they 1) don't know any better, 2) they think that more $$ is better.

Monthly fees range from 50$ to 125$ here in my town.

I Laugh when some one says, "I pay 100 dollars an hour to train with so-and-so." like they are proud of the fact that they pay that much. Ha! More like you pay 100 bucks an hour to be spoon fed crap and butt-fucked be a guy who really is a nobody when you could spend your money better.

Most people pay to say they train with someone rather than pay to actually get the information.


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## FLY (Apr 13, 2002)

> I think it's a rip when a guy who's been doing Kenpo for 12 years or so charges 50% more than a guy like Conatser or Planas for private lessons. That's what I think a rip is.
> 
> I think it's a rip when people nickle and dime you to death. When they peddle every little thing in the dojo. That's what I think a rip is.


agreed.:cheers: 


> 2) they think that more $$ is better.


I think it's funny how many people actually believe that.  It's not just MA training either.  Some people have it stuck in their head that if you don't pay a sh*#load of money for something, then it's not any good. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 



> Monthly fees range from 50$ to 125$ here in my town.


What/how many classes do those prices entitled you to?

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

50.00$ to 125.00$ can give you anywhere from 3 classes a week to unlimited classes. It's deceiving though because even unlimited access or limited access to crap doesn't make it any better. The reverse is true also. Limited time with a good instructor is valuable.

The problem is people who don't bother going outside their school to see what else is put there.

Hey, but then those people deserve what they get I guess.


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## FLY (Apr 13, 2002)

Well said Gou.
I definately agree with that....crap is crap, more doesn't mean it's better.:toilclaw: 

:asian:


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## Seig (May 11, 2002)

I realise that I am once again dragging up an old thread, sue me.  I think there is some validation to what everyone is saying.  I tend to think I am a bit expensive.  I charge 15 a week, flat rate.  I am open 5 nights a week.  When college is in session, my students come there too, so they can get two extra classes.  The money I collect for dues pays my gas back and forth and the rent and electric, that's it.  Now I do charge testing fees on a sliding scale.  That's my money.  I'm not ashamed to admit it.  If I am going to take on all the responsibilty of running the school and take the risk of being owner, i feel I deserve to make SOMETHING for my time. I have to work a full time job to pay the mortgage. I have testing four times a year.  The next test is in about three weeks and about 1/3 of my students are being told, "I don't think you are ready."  They have learned that actually means, "You cannot pass."  There are not many schools in my area, but we frequently have visitors.  My junior belts are tickled to see they can hang with other school's black belts.  We recently had a good friend of mine who is a 2nd Dan in TSD and has been studying Penjak Silat for a couple of years drop by on sparring night, my purple and brown belts made him work his backside off.  He enjoyed the workout and a viewpoint on another art, and they were tickled they could make him work so hard.  So, to sum it all up, making blanket statements about what people charge and testing fees is unfair, unless you have been a school owner.  I agree, a lot of school owners, shouldn't own them.  I'm not trying to take a shot at anyone, just reminding you to keep an open mind.:asian:


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## Turner (May 11, 2002)

When looking for a school, think about the cost of living of the local area before thinking that its too much.

In upstate New York,  out in the boondocks, the class costed $35 per month for two two-hour classes and one 3 hour class a week.

In San Angelos, TX in the Goodfellow AFB gym the class costed $35 per month for 3 two-hour classes per week for Hapkido and another $35 for Aikido for two nights a week.

Around Ft. Meade MD (Halfway between Baltimore and DC) classes ran anywhere from $50 to $100 per month. The majority of the classes that I checked out costed $100 a month and offered 3 1.5 hour sessions per week. The classes that were held in rec centers were either free or had a $50 per month cost and had 3 1.5 hour session for week. Tang Soo Do costed $70 per month You had access to 5 1.5 hour classes and 4 1 hour classes. If you wanted private lessons the cost would go up to $100 per month for an extra three hours per week one-on-one instruction. I signed up for the private lessons and he refused to take my money.. I was paying the reg. $70 per month.

Here in Charlottesville, VA the average cost per month is $60. Several charge 70 to 75, but I've only seen two that went under 60, but they were being held in either another Studio or a gym. That is for 3 1-to-1.5 hour classes per week.

Here in Charlottesville, they are getting ripped off. The quality of the classes are subpar and they are too short. So now I'm paying $300 per month for 8 hours per week just to have a place to practice on my own. If I decide that I want to teach more than a few people, the price will be doubled though since my time slots are later in the evening (830-1030 on T&W and 630-1030 on Sat.) I'll probably go elsewhere to get a better time slot, though I don't see that happening for at least another 5 to 10 years.


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2002)

Turner gave a pretty darn accurate view of the financial portion of most studios across the US.  It really depends upon what the local market or economy will support.  As always the better the product the higher the price.  Quality must be there.

:asian:


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## brianhunter (May 22, 2002)

just out of curiousity...
how much do you charge for privates Mr. C????? 
(Along the lines of quality  )


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## Goldendragon7 (May 22, 2002)

But usually $ 50.00 a session (what ever time we use min. 1 hr) in person...... but LD Training (net meeting or video or AIM) is usually $25.00 per hour for personal students $40.00 non Students, plus materials.

:asian:


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## TangSooGuy (May 22, 2002)

I agree quality needs to be there, but in my experience it has NO correlation to cost whatsoever. I've seen great instructors who charge alot and terrible instructors who charge alot.  The same can be said for those who charge little.


i will however NEVER understandwhy so many people get upset over instructors who charge what they need to in order to make a living off teaching martial arts. 

Teaching martial arts is a valuable service, and if that's what someone wants to do with their life, they have every right to make money doing it.

I look at is akin to college tuition (at least in the US). You CAN take it too far, but there's no reason not to charge what the market will bear. I'm not saying try to rippeople off, but why should an instructor keep himself in the poorhouse if he doesn't have to?

that said, i think it's important that the one who is receiving all the money should do most of the work. i've seen instructors who did tons of work to get students who could teach for them, thenrest onthe backs of these students while tellingthem it's all part of their training, while the students get little to nothing for their own efforts.  I think that is wrong, but it does happen.


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## Goldendragon7 (May 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by TangSooGuy _*
> I will however NEVER understandwhy so many people get upset over instructors who charge what they need to in order to make a living off teaching martial arts.
> 
> Teaching martial arts is a valuable service, and if that's what someone wants to do with their life, they have every right to make money doing it.
> *



Man you hit the nail on the head!  All we have is our knowledge and time, but everyone wants it for nothing.  I had to pay a good price for what I learned and am not ashamed of it.  Although not always in dollars....... a lot was spent on Air Fares and Loyalty to the Association in terms of Dues and Support to my Instructor.  As a result I got First Class Instruction always!!  

(Yoda voice) Never regret it ...do I!

:asian:


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## Les (May 22, 2002)

My students pay monthly, because I don't want to spend half the class making change and writing it all down.

The monthly fee is £24, training twice a week. (Base price £3 per class, or if you like, £2 per hour)

Class times are usually one and a half hours, and the chatting is done after the class is finished.

The class begins at 7.30, which means students are required to be changed and ready to line up by then, not parking their at 7.30

In exceptional circumstances, class fees can be paid on the night, but then there is a surcharge.

Guest students from other Kenpo schools are not charged for their (first) visit. (Thats a hint to satans barber, make the trip.)


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## Goldendragon7 (May 23, 2002)

Time to up the anti!

:asian:


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## Seig (May 23, 2002)

Comes down to getting what you pay for vs paying for what you got


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## satans.barber (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Les _
> 
> *My students pay monthly, because I don't want to spend half the class making change and writing it all down.
> 
> ...



Wow, class prices in pounds I can understand. Costs us £3.50 for one hour, and there's 3 on a week, which if you went to them all would be nearly £40 a month, a considerable amount more than £24. Glen's changin out times at the end of the month though, to two sessions a week at 90 minutes, although I suspect the price will go up.



> (Thats a hint to satans barber, make the trip.)



I may well. I told my friend in Oxford who trains with me during the holidays about the club you have down there in Blackbird Leys, as he's been looking for a club down there to go to in term time. He seems to think the area's a bit rough and the people at the club would gang up on any students that turned up no end, which I said I thought was daft.

He's invited me to go down for a few days in the week after next, so maybe I'll go along and hold his hand 

I'm sure we'll either be considerably better or considerably worse than your equivalent belts, that seems to be the case in different sects of teh same style...I'm sure if two first brown belts from the North rolled through the door they might expect more than we could put out. Then again, maybe not...

Ian.


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## Nightingale (May 24, 2002)

my instructor charges about $80 a month, less if you want to pay for a few months up front... expensive, yes, but I have never seen him turn someone away who really couldn't pay, either.

its kind of interesting...people tend to value something more if they pay more for it... I know I appreciated my lessons a lot more when I started having to pay for them myself (mom and dad stopped footing the bill after I came home with so many bruises from a sparring class that when I took off my uniform top my mom freaked out and said she didn't want me doing karate any more. I'm stubborn and started to pay for it myself)  It got me into the studio a lot more, knowing that if I wasn't there, I was wasting my own pocket money, which I didn't (and still don't) have a lot of.  I'm 23 and have been paying for my own lessons since high school.

if your students can't pay what you're asking, I mean really flat out can't afford it but are dying to train anyway, that doesn't mean you should let them off the hook though... there's always something else they can contribute.  a younger child who wants to train can come in early and clean the windows and mirrors and vacuum the carpets for you. perhaps someone in high school or college (or even an adult) could maintain your website. you're not losing any money by having an additional body in your group classes, and they're saving you time by doing little mundane chores so you don't have to.  when people are given a handout, they don't always appreciate what they have, but if they have to work for it, even if its not actually going to a job and handing you a chunk of their monthly paycheck, as long as there's some kind of reciprocal action going on, you get a student that really wants to learn, and they get an instructor who wants to teach students who really appreciate their training.


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## GouRonin (May 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Time to up the anti!*



Yes. As everyone knows I think most american kenpoists charge far too little for their services.

I also think the moon is made of cheese...
:shrug:


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## RCastillo (May 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *But usually $ 50.00 a session (what ever time we use min. 1 hr) in person...... but LD Training (net meeting or video or AIM) is usually $25.00 per hour for personal students $40.00 non Students, plus materials.
> 
> :asian: *



Don't forget, you also have to throw in lunch. Those are the perks for being top dog!


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## Seig (May 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Don't forget, you also have to throw in lunch. Those are the perks for being top dog! *


I will happily buy him anything on the menu as longs as it doesn't cost more than $3.50:rofl:


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