# Cultural Differences



## Tez3 (Jan 21, 2009)

In a recent thread in a discussion on an emotive subject someone stated there was a big difference in cultures between America and Great Britain. Given that the two countries have always, well after the War of Independance anway, been the countries that have been the closest in many things, are our two cultures so different? 

Not just in things like spellings, use of words etc but in major things about the way we look at emotive subjects like sex, abortion, homosexuality, religion. Are we just allies because we happen to speak much the same language or do we really have enough in common that we understand each other. I must admit that I have difficulties at times in understanding why things that seem simple here are more complicated in America. I imagine that works both ways? 

Both countries are fiercely independant with different experiences of the same history, but are we still cousins? should we be or should Britain look towards Europe rather than America for support? Does America look to Britain still or does it look towards its Spanish speaking neighbours more now many Americans have Spanish as their first language?


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## Steve (Jan 21, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> In a recent thread in a discussion on an emotive subject someone stated there was a big difference in cultures between America and Great Britain. Given that the two countries have always, well after the War of Independance anway, been the countries that have been the closest in many things, are our two cultures so different?
> 
> Not just in things like spellings, use of words etc but in major things about the way we look at emotive subjects like sex, abortion, homosexuality, religion. Are we just allies because we happen to speak much the same language or do we really have enough in common that we understand each other. I must admit that I have difficulties at times in understanding why things that seem simple here are more complicated in America. I imagine that works both ways?
> 
> Both countries are fiercely independant with different experiences of the same history, but are we still cousins? should we be or should Britain look towards Europe rather than America for support? Does America look to Britain still or does it look towards its Spanish speaking neighbours more now many Americans have Spanish as their first language?


We'd have far fewer wars in the world if we fully internalized the idea that we don't have to have a lot in common to be allies. 

That said, regardnig what we have in common... do Brits have short attention spans, even shorter memories, an unhealthy obsession with gadgetry and a sincere but completely misguided sense of entitlement to things we can't afford? Do British corporations and industries exploit and encourage these things for short term profits at the expense of long term stability? 

If so, then I'd say we're still pretty close. 

Edit:  I just want to add, though, that we're much better cooks.  Jeez louise.  British food = gut bomb.


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

At this point, we're vastly different, Irene.

Best quick example: _Bristol Palin_. You posted about how her name was hilarious over there. I posted how I got how _you_ found it funny, but not only did _we_ not find it funny, but we didn't even know that you found it funny-never mind why. In spite of our sharing languages that resemble each other enough to communicate, we don't even share the same language.

Likewise, while over here we tend to percieve you as one people, unable to make the distinctions that you do between someone who lives on one end of Great Britain or the other, Wales vs. England, Bristol vs. Liverpool, etc., you seem to forget that we're an even bigger nation, made up from people descended from people who came from all over the world, and have huge cultural differences of our own because of that, and because of the geographical differences. Someone who grew up in New York City is not like someone who grew up in London-and probably nothing like someone who grew up in Dallas or L.A.

Heck, someone who grew up in the Bronx is nothing like someone who grew up in Manhattan, and they're walking distance apart....:lol:

I was in Disney World, years and years ago, and, well, anyone who's been there can tell you how Mickey and Minnie get mobbed by kids, and parents with cameras. Along comes Minnie-Minnie gets mobbed. People taking pictures, kids everywhere, and here's this "British" gentleman, camera in hand,muttering away (a little bit louder than muttering)_It would all go so much smoother if everyone would just get in a queue_. Of course, there wa no "queue", and most of the people there-*Americans*-will get in line if we have to: at the supermarket, for the rides, for the toll booth, for tickets, but we don't just form up in lines, and if you want a picture, you better just have your kids shove their way up there and jump in when their turn comes. When their turn comes? _When they take it._ I mean, sure, it was chaotic-but mostly it was just being dealt with, and people were *not* going to form orderly lines.Not saying it's good. Not saying it's bad. It's different.

Allies? Sure. Friends? Sure. Just very different cultures. Things you tend to think of as "none of my business" we have a long history of making our business: religion, sexuality, personal vices. Hell, we made liquor illegal for 13 years, because of a bunch of people who couldn't mind their own business. There are still counties in this country where you can't get a beer, never mind a decent shot of tequila.....:lol:

On the other hand, our "shared language" means that we get to share Benny Hill, Monty Python, the Avengers, and all manner of other goodies. Don't know that you get anything as good in return, actually....

I've got to say as well, that your lot probably spend a great deal more time trying to understand us than we even bother thinking about you. Don't know if that's good or bad........


.....and yeah, we have wayyyy better food.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

You were doing fine right up until your last line, *Elder*.  

Other than that fantasy (which is based on the whinings of a few generations of panned Frenchmen) there's not a lot to disagree with in what you say.

I think our 'image' of America, which is largely negative I have to confess, comes from the output of the media more than anything else.  For example, in my own lifetime, I have only met a handful of 'Yanks' face to face, so my sample size for forming an real opinion is vanishingly small {and half of them were ex-pat Englishmen :lol:}.

My on-line contacts are massively greater of course and that has worked on my judgements of what makes an 'American' quite strongly, chipping away at some treasured stereotypes.  

The thing that does consistently surprise me (and which has been reinforced rather than dispelled by the Net) is how little attention many of your countrymen seem to pay to the rest of the world or it's history.  

I have ever surmised that this is because America itself is more than large enough for everyone and everything is supplied to America in such quantities that not many have to think where anything comes from.  

I forget what percentage was it that actually have a passport, let alone use one but I recall it being surprisingly low.  With such grandeur at home I can see why there is little incentive to go elsewhere but this leads me back in a circle to saying that those of us out 'here' don't get to actually meet many Americans ... so we make our minds up from what we see in the movies and from the actions of your government as it stomps around the globe as if it owned the place.

Which means, all in all, that's it's actually quite hard to judge how to answer the OP.  Our nations relationships have been forged by war more often than not and you know what they say about relationships formed in times of crisis .


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## Tez3 (Jan 21, 2009)

The Bristol Palin thing the whole of Britain found vastly amusing, it made all the papers, all the tv and radio shows. We found the whole family very amusing, it was like a parody, American life as portrayed in National Lampoon House's Vacation films but then we laugh at all polititians, keeps them in their place.
The British tend to look at America and see a large puppy, good natured, fun, meaning well but not grown up yet. It probably what explains the queue thing, we see it as adult good manners to take your turn. It means too that a certain section of our community take it upon from thenmselves to teach the rest of the world British good manners, bless them, these would have been the sterling ladies and gentlemen of the empire who have the mickey taken out of them many times but are the true heroes when things turn bad.

I think too we do think about you a lot, I suspect we still think you should have joined the Commonwealth! We worry about you like parents with their teenagers without even thinking you might find that patronising and unwelcome. 

It does annoy us however when our polititions bow to yours, we think they should have their own minds. 

I hate Benny Hill, he's awful, a real chauvinst pig!! 
Your dramas such as West Wing, ER, the CSI series, that sort are very good. You also do sharp, very 'American' comedies that have fast funny repartee that we don't tend to have.

I have worked with Americans, service people usually and found them open ( far too much sometimes, far too much information about private lives on too short an aquaintance!) but quintiessentially naive. It's wonderful being patriotic but one should also have an open mind about other cultures especially when in that country and not in America.


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## Tez3 (Jan 21, 2009)

I don't want this turning into a country v country bashing session! I just thought it would be good to explore our differences (sounds vaguely rude lol) and things we have in common. It would be nice to smash a lot of those myths we have, as Sukerkin says, been believing due to the media.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 21, 2009)

I just have to say I love Benny Hill, Dr. Who, Tomorrow People, and of course, the esteemed Mr. Bean.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

In terms of myth dispelling, I thought that, for 'us', the recent series by my favourite erudite Englishman (Steven Fry) as he drove around America in a London cab was very good. Yes, all he had time to do was give us a cliche from each state but at least that showed us that there is more than *one* stereotype .

We can never really overcome the 'prejudices' we are inculcated with from birth but by dint of exploration of each other via book, 'chat' and maybe even actual visit one day (fingers crossed) we can learn that fundamental truth that we are all people. We may be shaped by our cultures (here I resist jokey but unfairly snide comparative barbs ROFL) but we are all still individuals - that is how even in our one-step-removed internet contacts we form friendships. What we like and what our views are and how we comport ourselves mean much more than where we are from.


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> You were doing fine right up until your last line, *Elder*.
> 
> Other than that fantasy (which is based on the whinings of a few generations of panned Frenchmen) there's not a lot to disagree with in what you say..


 
Oh no. It's based on several trips to your country(ies). 

Now, I like huevos rancheros a lot, but the beans that you guys serve for breakfast?

I could go on, but, I'm sorry-with a few notable exceptions,some imports and some converted imports (your curry is a lot like our "chinese food," no longer what it purports to be, but some hybridization that is more native to where it's served...) what you offer for cuisine is pretty weak by most standards-given a choice between the varieties of "Italian," or "Mexican," or "Asian," or just about anything, I'd take them over most things purporting to be "British."

Except maybe "French." I don't care for most "French" food: I like their pastries, bread and _bouillabaisse_, though....:lfao: Oh, and their "coffee."

On the other hand, there are some things in Mexico, the Phillipines and a few other places that I'm not about to touch.......and, on the other hand, every time I've had dog, I had seconds, so what do I know about food?...:lol:




			
				Tez3 said:
			
		

> I hate Benny Hill, he's awful, a real chauvinst pig!!


 
I feel much the same about David Chappelle...........:lfao:

You're right about the "American abroad" attitude, though. I almost always wind up being embarassed for one or more of my countrymen while overseas-in Japan, or the Netherlands, even in Mexico....._especially_ in some parts of Mexico, which some Americans tend to think of as another state....we do tend to have no idea of how to behave in someone else's home. Shameful, really..... 

It's pretty likely we get "lulled" by that "common tongue" thing in your country, though, and it seems even worse. That part might even work both ways, though who'd know it?


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## Makalakumu (Jan 21, 2009)

There are large cultural differences among the proletariat, but at the top, America still maintains all of its anglo traditions.  Look at the elite schools in both nations.  Look at the crazy emphasis on bloodlines and family purity.  Look at how Anglican traditions are viewed here...to the point of anointing certain families as "royal".

Also, look at the money.  Our financial institutions are direct copies of yours.  Our financial leaders regularly commiserate on the fate of both nation's economies.  These same people intermarry and are often duel citizens.  The top of our society is still very much tied to the UK.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 21, 2009)

What is rather interesting here is that comedy does not cross over well in different cultures but yet there are British comedies that work well in the US and from the post of Tez it appears that some of the American comedies work in Britain. So how different are we really?

As to Sukerkins view of us not knowing the history; we are taught it in school however not in great detail, how much detail are the countries of Europe and the British Isles taught about American History? However with that said many Americans do not really know much of their own history so not knowing the history of other countries does not surprise me in the least.

I like history and I will admit I know more about the US and China than I know about any other place but I did recently see a few PBS shows on Henry the 8th and Shakespeare that were incredibly fascinating and I will admit that I know bit of it but certainly not all. 

And speaking as one that has never been to the British Isles and never had authentic food and only knows about it from hearsay I must say I agree with Elder But then if we were talking China and food the US looses hands down


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## Steve (Jan 21, 2009)

When I was in Germany in the air force, I was drinking a beer in a local gasthaus with a bunch of Germans I didn't know. After about the 7th or so beer, this older lady put her hand on my arm, leaned in and said, "You Americans are SO YOUNG. We have brothels older than your country." 

That image has stayed with me and affected my perspective from that point on as I travelled around. I would look at the corner stores and the bars and all of the other buildings and wonder when they were built. In Traben-Trabach, where I lived, there were few buildings that didn't predate the revolutionary war. There's a sense of permanence that comes from this, to me. 

I got a little bit of this sense of history in Boston, but it's nothing like traipsing through the ruins of Bernkastel-Keus or even drinking a beer in a bar that's built out of the cellar of a centuries old building.

I do appreciate the size of America, but even within that there are a lot of differences. Part of the problem we have, I think, is our ready acceptance of categories. I grew up largely in Texas, but can guarantee you that I have nothing in common with the stereotype of a Texan. 

We do tend to be somewhat disinterested in the details of world events. I think this is a shame, but the point about sheer size and breadth of the USA is surely part of it. That said, Canada is as large as we are, and they tend to be much more aware of the global implications of their actions. 

As for the passport thing, I think that the cost of travelling abroad is prohibitive. I travel across the border to Canada often, but have a special drivers license instead of a passport.

Edit: Oh, I have to add that Monty Python was big for me.  I remember the first time I watched them was in a 12 hour marathon... I must have been like 11 years old.  Been a fan ever since.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Oh no. It's based on several trips to your country(ies).
> 
> Now, I like huevos rancheros a lot, but the beans that you guys serve for breakfast?
> 
> I could go on, but, I'm sorry-with a few notable exceptions,some imports and some converted imports (your curry is a lot like our "chinese food," no longer what it purports to be, but some hybridization that is more native to where it's served...) what you offer for cuisine is pretty weak by most standards-given a choice between the varieties of "Italian," or "Mexican," or "Asian," or just about anything, I'd take them over most things purporting to be "British."


 
Right!  That's it!  Get your sword, we'll settle this like gentlemen ... 

... oh wait, you're clearly joking.  Phew!  I thought you were serious for a minute then :lol:.

Of course, in all seriousness, your tastes have to be your own and if our food isn't to your liking than my saying otherwise wont change that.


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## Steve (Jan 21, 2009)

Xue Sheng said:


> What is rather interesting here is that comedy does not cross over well in different cultures but yet there are British comedies that work well in the US and from the post of Tez it appears that some of the American comedies work in Britain. So how different are we really?
> 
> As to Sukerkins view of us not knowing the history; we are taught it in school however not in great detail, how much detail are the countries of Europe and the British Isles taught about American History? However with that said many Americans do not really know much of their own history so not knowing the history of other countries does not surprise me in the least.
> 
> ...


My mom said that the most important year in American history was 1066.  Her opinion, surely, but the point being she believes strongly that at least a fundamental understanding of the history of Britain is crucial to understanding the history of the USA.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I think our 'image' of America, which is largely negative I have to confess, comes from the output of the media more than anything else. For example, in my own lifetime, I have only met a handful of 'Yanks' face to face, so my sample size for forming an real opinion is vanishingly small {and half of them were ex-pat Englishmen :lol:}.
> 
> My on-line contacts are massively greater of course and that has worked on my judgements of what makes an 'American' quite strongly, chipping away at some treasured stereotypes.


 
My wife's sister lives in London, and hopefully we can pay her a visit some time (my wife has actually gone to visit a few times, but I have not been able to accompany her).  Perhaps when I make it over there, you and I can get together for an afternoon to share a pint or two and hopefully I can help break down a few American stereotypes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Good other points you made in this post, I find much to agree with.


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> There are large cultural differences among the proletariat, but at the top, America still maintains all of its anglo traditions. Look at the elite schools in both nations. Look at the crazy emphasis on bloodlines and family purity. Look at how Anglican traditions are viewed here...to the point of anointing certain families as "royal".
> 
> Also, look at the money. Our financial institutions are direct copies of yours. Our financial leaders regularly commiserate on the fate of both nation's economies. These same people intermarry and are often duel citizens. The top of our society is still very much tied to the UK.


 
While there is an element of truth to this for some of the families "at the top," it's largely a socialist-proletarian canard, based upon a lack of experience with any of those families. You could be right about the financuial institutions, but, just as one example, the Kennedys are largely descended from a criminal bootlegger.The elite schools, while they may have started out emulating similar institutions in the U.K, and may even have _some_ similar traditions, are largely American affairs.I don't even know what you mean by "crazy emphasis" on bloodlines and purity. People are into their lineage and sometimes heritage, that's all-if you were descended from someone who came over on the Mayflower, you'd know it.

While I don't deny that we have what some would see as an aristocracy based upon inherited wealth, it is a distinctly _American_ aristocracy based upon wealth. Don't even know what you mean by the "top of our society," let alone "tied to the U.K." Sounds like more "one world government, Rothschilds and Bildebergers, Illuminati and Trilateral Commission" *confusion* to me....:lol:



stevebjj said:


> When I was in Germany in the air force, I was drinking a beer in a local gasthaus with a bunch of Germans I didn't know. After about the 7th or so beer, this older lady put her hand on my arm, leaned in and said, "You Americans are SO YOUNG. We have brothels older than your country."


 
I stayed in a hotel in Venice that was about _*800 years*_ old-a Knight's Templar shelter, no less...

On the other hand, I was in a ceremony last month that has taken place in about the same place, at the same time of year, for a little bit longer-actually, probably a lot longer-since 900A.D. or so..... Again, it depends upon your definition of "You Americans...."

All of which brings back part of my original point: there are pretty big (from what I know of them) cultural differences in your country{ies} ; there are *vast* cultural differences in ours, brought about by geography, religion, upbringing-and, well, just different cultures. Given all of that, the differences between us are to be expected.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 21, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> My mom said that the most important year in American history was 1066. Her opinion, surely, but the point being she believes strongly that at least a fundamental understanding of the history of Britain is crucial to understanding the history of the USA.


 
Coincidentally that is the only year I know from English history, the Battle of Hastings, and I have no idea why that sticks in my head but it does
.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Well, *Xue*, 1066 is a fairly significant World History date, so I would imagine that it was highlighted pretty hard in your schooldays; that might be why it's stuck so well?

It could, of course, be that it sticks in your memory as the date of the first surviving written mention of my families existence ... no, my sillyness there ... that was 1086 - we're still in the same town too :lol:. I'm quite far flung from the tree being all of almost twenty miles away . Living proof that American's think 100 years is a long time and Englishmen think 100 miles is a long way .

That really is one of my favourite cliche's about our cultural differences.


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## Steve (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Living proof that American's think 100 years is a long time and Englishmen think 100 miles is a long way .
> 
> That really is one of my favourite cliche's about our cultural differences.


This is so funny. 100 miles is almost within commuting distance!  I was thinking about a road trip I took my family on a few Summer's back. We drove from Seattle to South Dakota and took in Mt. Rushmore and Crazy Horse, as well as (at my daughter's insistence) the Corn Palace. 

We then drove over to Iowa to visit my wife's hometown, then South to San Antonio to spend a week with my parents. From there over to Anaheim and a day at Disneyland and then a scenic drive up the Oregon coast back home. 

Overall, if I remember correctly, I drove over 6000 miles in 3 weeks. It was great fun. Lots of good memories. 

We're going to drive down to Disneyland this Summer for my daughter's 12th birthday. I'd rather drive than fly. We'll get to stop in the Redwood forest and maybe this time I'll get to take the kids down through Monterey... maybe stop off at the Hearst Castle or the Agate beaches around Eureka/Arcada.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Crikey mate! 6000 miles :faints:. Leaving aside my having flown to Calgary and back (via Chicago), I'm not sure I've gone that far in my entire life :lol:.


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Crikey mate! 6000 miles :faints:. Leaving aside my having flown to Calgary and back (via Chicago), I'm not sure I've gone that far in my entire life :lol:.


 
I drove nearly that much moving to New Mexico from New York. _Twice_ :lol:

Average American driver  drives around 12,000 miles a year, I think. I drive a quite a bit more than that, but I like to drive...:lol:


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## CoryKS (Jan 21, 2009)

Different styles with a common lineage.  You get a lot of variety in these offshoots.


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## Steve (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Crikey mate! 6000 miles :faints:. Leaving aside my having flown to Calgary and back (via Chicago), I'm not sure I've gone that far in my entire life :lol:.


  It's the journey that matters.  Right?  

I would personally rather drive for 5 days and spend 3 at a "destinition" and then 5 days home along a different route, than to fly and spend more time.  Some of my fondest memories are of the road trips we took as a family and I want my kids to experience that.  You miss the entire country if you fly.  My wife and I disagree on this to a point.  

I like going to DisneyWorld, but it's like travelling in a vacuum.  We fly down one day, landing on the very opposite corner of our Country.  We take a shuttle from the Airport to the Disney resort, spend a week or so in the cocoon of the Disney experience and then fly home.  It's like a virtual vacation, to me.  

Whereas, if we drove, we would see so much more... literally an entire country's worth.  The journey is the vacation, not the destination.

I'm with Elder, though.  I love to drive.  Before the baby, I would pack up anyone who wanted to join me and go out on the weekend and just drive up through the mountains.  I would look for twisty roads up in the hills or deep into the forests and just drive until lunchtime... then drive home.  

I'm also one of those geeks who can easily spend the afternoon in the loft playing Gran Turismo.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Ah, we find a commonality between at least these examples of American's and Englishmen .

Gran Turismo is a great passion of mine.  At one time I was amongst the top competing drivers in the world (as such things are measured by inter-board OLR events) and now greatly enjoy wielding the virtual spanners coaxing the best performance for the best A-Spec out of a car.

Here's my main 'showcase' these days:

http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103928

Sadly, my co-engineer has gone and gotten a real motorsports job which means that the front-page doesn't get updated any more (I don't have access ).

Off-topicness over .


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## Makalakumu (Jan 21, 2009)

elder999 said:


> While there is an element of truth to this for some of the families "at the top," it's largely a socialist-proletarian canard, based upon a lack of experience with any of those families. You could be right about the financuial institutions, but, just as one example, the Kennedys are largely descended from a criminal bootlegger.The elite schools, while they may have started out emulating similar institutions in the U.K, and may even have _some_ similar traditions, are largely American affairs.I don't even know what you mean by "crazy emphasis" on bloodlines and purity. People are into their lineage and sometimes heritage, that's all-if you were descended from someone who came over on the Mayflower, you'd know it.
> 
> While I don't deny that we have what some would see as an aristocracy based upon inherited wealth, it is a distinctly _American_ aristocracy based upon wealth. Don't even know what you mean by the "top of our society," let alone "tied to the U.K." Sounds like more "one world government, Rothschilds and Bildebergers, Illuminati and Trilateral Commission" *confusion* to me....:lol:



I've read and heard a few things here and there, but in reality, what the hell would I know.  I'm a polish/german/indian that grew up in the frozen wastelands of Minnesota.  I'm about as "elite" as a can of good lutefisk.

That said, from what I "know", its a small world at the top...and that world is tied closely to Britain.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 21, 2009)

Got any WASPs in England?


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> I've read and heard a few things here and there, but in reality, what the hell would I know. I'm a polish/german/indian that grew up in the frozen wastelands of Minnesota. I'm about as "elite" as a can of good lutefisk.
> 
> That said, from what I "know", its a small world at the top...and that world is tied closely to Britain.


 

Well, it might make for another thread......what do I know? While I went to school with a few of the people that you're probably referring to, I'm just an african/indian/polynesian/fill in the blank whose ancestors happened to get rich before any Kennedys or Rockefellers did......

...and when you get right down to it, hell, I'm *black*, and even if I wanted to forget it, I've never met a Kennedy, Rockefeller, Lippincott, Mellon, DuPont or even Ford who'd let me...:lfao:.....though,I also have to admit, from time to time some of them seemed to forget it themselves.......


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## crushing (Jan 21, 2009)

These travel distances get back to the point of percentage of people having passports.  If I wanted to check out Stone Brewing Company in my own country, that's a 2200 mile trip for me without ever leaving the US.

Someone can leave Manchester and head to Munich and take a little detour through Belgium and the Netherlands and in around 900 miles have been in four different countries.

Also, I'm not sure when you saw the passport statistics, but the US passport percentages likely went up recently as the requirements of the _Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative_ are implemented.


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## Archangel M (Jan 21, 2009)

Im going to add something that may sound offensive/confrontational, but its intended to illustrate my point not stir things up....many people who immigrated to America did so because they didnt give a damn what the "old country" thought...

That being said, we do need to "get along" with our worldly neighbors, but IMO, I dont want my politicians first thoughts to be "I wonder what Europe thinks about us." I teach my kids to be courteous, be respectful, but be their own person. If you think something is right then screw the rest. The "American Way" has been to be fiercely independent. We were born a Revolutionary nation and that was only yesterday in global terms.


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## elder999 (Jan 21, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Im going to add something that may sound offensive/confrontational, but its intended to illustrate my point not stir things up....many people who immigrated to America did so because they didnt give a damn what the "old country" thought...


 
And many did because they had no choice.While some if those _chose_ to do so because it was the only choice left, hell, many did their "immigrating" as ****ing *cargo*! :angry:

And many "others"  were already waiting here for waves of immigrants to commit genocide against them....:angry:




Archangel M said:


> That being said, we do need to "get along" with our worldly neighbors, but IMO, I dont want my politicians first thoughts to be "I wonder what Europe things about us." I teach my kids to be courteous, be respectful, but be their own person. If you think something is right then screw the rest. The "American Way" has been to be fiercely independent. We were born a Revolutionary nation and that was only yesterday in global terms.


 
Agreed. 

(Betcha didn't think the first part would be "offensive" quite that way, didya? :lfao


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## morph4me (Jan 21, 2009)

I think alot of the cultural differences come from the fact that we are a very young country, with the arrogance and brashness, and independence of youth. When we are around for a couple of hundred more years, I suspect our diffences will become less noticable.

On a somewhat related note. my daughter is London for the semester and my wife and I will be visiting for a week in the beginning of May. I will endeavor not to add to the negative image


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## KELLYG (Jan 21, 2009)

I dig this thread.  Some people may think that we are very different but we are not.  If you are judging me from what you see in the media or on American TV you have missed me by a long shot.   I have not or don't have the desire to meet any one or emulate any one in the "Super Upper class elite"  Most of them are imitating each other and that would have to be boring at the very least.  I am from here and have experienced the WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION that people give out without really knowing you.  I do not have to instantly gratify my every want and need to the point that it puts me in a financial bind. 

 I like most people go to work, come home, take care of household chores, and try to find some time to have fun. 

Don't even get me started on REALITY TV.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 21, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> In a recent thread in a discussion on an emotive subject someone stated there was a big difference in cultures between America and Great Britain. Given that the two countries have always, well after the War of Independance anway, been the countries that have been the closest in many things, are our two cultures so different?
> 
> Not just in things like spellings, use of words etc but in major things about the way we look at emotive subjects like sex, abortion, homosexuality, religion. Are we just allies because we happen to speak much the same language or do we really have enough in common that we understand each other. I must admit that I have difficulties at times in understanding why things that seem simple here are more complicated in America. I imagine that works both ways?
> 
> Both countries are fiercely independant with different experiences of the same history, but are we still cousins? should we be or should Britain look towards Europe rather than America for support? Does America look to Britain still or does it look towards its Spanish speaking neighbours more now many Americans have Spanish as their first language?


 
Britain and the rest or Europe has a longer history of not getting along. 

With recent wars in the 20th century it made sense to be allies not just for politics but for business as well. 


As to Sex, Abortion, Homosexuality, and Religion, I think Britain has made much more progress in all of these areas in openness and understanding and tolerance. I can see it from US to Canada.


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## Kreth (Jan 21, 2009)

crushing said:


> These travel distances get back to the point of percentage of people having passports.  If I wanted to check out Stone Brewing Company in my own country, that's a 2200 mile trip for me without ever leaving the US.
> 
> Someone can leave Manchester and head to Munich and take a little detour through Belgium and the Netherlands and in around 900 miles have been in four different countries.


I remember years ago reading a blurb in Reader's Digest, IIRC, that illustrated this. An American was having some friends visit from Europe, and they were asking about visiting something like Disney World in the morning, and the Grand Canyon in the afternoon... :lol:


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## thardey (Jan 21, 2009)

Talking about _young_, my city was "Incorporated" in 1885! And that was mostly tents, I'm sure. It was just a place to cross the Rogue River.

And as far as travel, One year my whole family drove to eastern Texas and back, via Southern California, to visit family. (4,000 miles) The next summer my sister, her boyfriend and I drove to Oaklahoma and back in one week total, right after I graduated from High School. (2,400 miles in 6 days.), and the summer after that, just my sister and I drove to Missouri and back, to visit relatives (3,600 miles.) The "Road Trip" is a rite of passage. That's 10,000 miles in a year and a half - most of which was done without anybody in the car over 21.

It's nothing to go visit my in-laws that live 300 miles away. We do it all the time. (See why we whine about gas prices?)

One other thing I've noticed as a cultural difference is the "Do-It-Yourself" (Or "DIY") mentality. A "Plumber" here (S. Oregon) is someone who installs plumbing in a new building, not someone you call when you have a leaky faucet -- you're expected to fix that yourself. Part of our standard education (culturally, not necessarily Public school) includes basic carpentry, welding, motor vehicle repair (basic mainenance stuff, like oil changes, filters, spark plugs, etc.), plumbing, and stuff like that. You only hire someone to do that for you when you get some "disposable income."

Also the degree of "politeness" varies considerably from area to area. We think New Englanders (Yankees, to us) are very rude -- they think we're way too polite. But even our type of "Politeness" is still different from people I've known from England.

It's also true that our history is related to what affects America. Even "World History" only focuses on the world before we became a nation. So, in a sense, it's all "American History." We'll study England, and France, and Rome, and Greece, and Egypt and all that, until 1776, then it's all about us. (Or should I say U.S?) We only study other cultures in the sense of how they affected us. Either they have been allies, or enemies. (The exception to this being Israel, mostly because of deeply embeded religious culture, I suppose.)


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## Archangel M (Jan 21, 2009)

elder999 said:


> And many did because they had no choice.While some if those _chose_ to do so because it was the only choice left, hell, many did their "immigrating" as ****ing *cargo*! :angry:
> 
> And many "others"  were already waiting here for waves of immigrants to commit genocide against them....:angry:
> 
> ...



My Immigrant relatives on one side were Italian. Back "in the day" they were as discriminated against as any other minority. Lynchings, street killings, riots..Hell my great-grandmother had some newspapers that outright called them ethnic slurs. But they didnt let that influence what they saw as the promise of "America". The "American Ideal" is larger than and separate from the way Americans have behaved in the past.


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## Archangel M (Jan 21, 2009)

In terms of "support" it seems to me that we were pretty much left to our own devices and nobody really thought all that much about us on the world stage until after the World Wars. Which is a couple of minutes ago in "world history time".


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## CoryKS (Jan 21, 2009)

thardey said:


> We only study other cultures in the sense of how they affected us.


 
Yes, and also in the sense of "how can we use this?"  Americans tend to be voracious adopters of other people's stuff, provided that it appeals to us or offers a real benefit.


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## Archangel M (Jan 21, 2009)

Rich Parsons said:


> Britain and the rest or Europe has a longer history of not getting along.
> 
> With recent wars in the 20th century it made sense to be allies not just for politics but for business as well.
> 
> ...



I agree. It seems to me that short of our Civil War, America has been unusual  in its ability to "get along". My grandfather was around when Europe was slaughtering each other wholesale a few decades ago.

I think that there is also a perception difference regarding our stance on political issues like abortion, religion etc. Our laws/government is where "tolerance" is found here. We are used to having the freedom (and some would say the expectation) to make a big stink about not agreeing/liking what "the other side" believes. In some ways our battles over things like abortion is a "good" thing. Compared to just "going along to get along".


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## Makalakumu (Jan 21, 2009)

In the city I used to live, there were old ethnic neighborhoods where entire communities from the Old World came and settled.  These communities can be located today by looking at the difference in architecture, street names, and pubs.  Anyway, back then, all of the old hatreds and prejudices were carried from the Old to the New and a culture of antipathy grew up between the various sections of town.  Now, no one remembers any of that, but the culture of antipathy remains.  The rivalry between various neighborhood schools, the anti-neighborhood graphitti and vandalism, and even some of the old epithets used remain.  

For example, in my old neighborhood, we had street names of Ulm, Bern, and Munich.  Our neighborhood pub was the Bierstube.  Guess who settled that neighborhood?

Across the railroad tracks, near the harbor, you had Brussels and the Belgian club.  Guess who settled there?

I had friends on the other side of the tracks who immediately associated the rivalry to us just because we lived there.  Our hockey games were classic!

The worst were the scandinavians.  The Norwegians, Swedish, and Finnish must not have mixed well because there are some cases where people on one side of town still won't associate with people form another.  I remember two boys arguing in my classroom about this hot girl and whether or not they were going to ask her out.  One sides entire argument was that she was a Cooper.

I don't think anyone remembers what that means anymore.


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## CoryKS (Jan 21, 2009)

Just found an interesting article related to the topic.  For those of you who are familiar with OSC's Ender's Game series, it uses Card's "Hierarchy of Alienness" as a jumping-off point for discussing cultural differences.  

Common Ground, or the Lack Thereof


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Of course when one takes the best aspects of the British and the Americans, you end up with a .....Canadian! 

 Seriously as a Canadian (born in Trinidad and Tobago) ...which I would guess lies somewhere in between the two cultures....the British seemed more reserved, more willing to defer to authority,  the Americans are more bombastic and more individualist.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

And yet we have one of the most 'revolt' filled histories of any First World nation . Part of that is of course the fact that we welded ourselves together from four different countries, each of which has elements that will not tolerate elements from the others . That worked well enough when we weren't so concerned about not treading on other peoples 'rights' but no so good when we reached post-Imperial 'enlightenment'.

One thing I think that our American cousins need to bear in mind is that your country was founded by the religious malcontents that we didn't want 'here' but couldn't quite bring ourselves to execute. So it's not a surprise that some of your fundamental attitutudes are very recognisable as 18th century Puritan English. 

Then, as with Australia later, we shipped out a fair load of criminals and misfits to get rid of them. 

Then you cosied up to the French (nosey late-comer Bagginsies they were in the New World) when you decided that you didn't want to pay taxes but couldn't win a revolt without their support (why don't you chaps remember that more publicly by the way?). 

Even the Russians got a bit of a look in for a short while (never really understood why; I shall have to read up on that unless someone can tell me here?).

Since then, America's swung between isolationism and neo-imperialism and never really seems to settle on either and has been the target of an ever increasing influx of other 'peoples' which has really messed up your social stability and got the whole pot on the 'rolling boil'.

Even with the remote perspective of an outsider, I really can't predict what will happen to American culture over the next couple of decades - I just hope, as I've said before, that we stop importing your bad points and try to emulate some of your good.

Maybe it'll be that you'll become more than the sum of your parts and transcend the potential schisms that could erupt. After all, English history up to 1066 was one of repeated invasions and assimilations. The comparative stability that came after that was down to the mixing of cultures producing a strong mongrel, protected by the Channel, which grew into a world spanning power.

We are much more alike than I think either 'side' would like to admit. The real differences I see are the same that you see in generations of a single family. We sit and tut at your bad teenage behaviour around the world, trying to advise that "we wouldn't do that if we were you" and you toss your heads at our patriachial hypocrisy for looking down our noses at you doing what we did :lol:.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> You were doing fine right up until your last line, *Elder*.
> 
> Other than that fantasy (which is based on the whinings of a few generations of panned Frenchmen) there's not a lot to disagree with in what you say.



Sukerkin,

Elder does have a point. Or do you want me to tell the Americans about this?


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

I like UK folks. 

Having been there twice and NOT added to the stereotype( "Ah carn't beLIEVE 'e's so quiet! I never 'eard of it, a shy American!" ) I too had my eyes opened as to how much of England does NOT conform to the snobby, stale stereotype we sometimes get. ( Riding the trains the night a local "football" team had won against another local team....eye opening indeed:eye-popping:) 

Thing is, you're still cool to us in many ways. Witness "Brit as hero/villain in Yank movies":

Even though it's often grumbled about that English actors are often cast as villains in American movies, it isn't because we think less of you, but rather because the demeanor, acent and mannerisms communicate intelligent, calculated, and therefore frequently successful, evil plans .

Portrayed as the good guys, you're the James Bond type. never ruffled in the face of danger,not so much the macho-oozing, action hero cool but the unruffled, social-engineer-with-stunt-training cool, stiff upper lip and all that.

Kind of fits once thought through.

Americans in general, have traditionally been an all-or-nothing type of society for better or worse. We like the big win, the touchdown, the first-round knockout. There seems to be something in us that needs to know, and for everyone else to know, that not only did we "win", whatever it constitutes in the particular case, but that we won by an unquestionable margin. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it is not, because not all fights CAN be won that way, yet many crucial ones still must be fought slow and steady. Some of this it's taken our current situation to finally come to realize.

You have the calm , unrushed confidence of experience, and we the energy and percieved invincibility of youth, and it reflects in our heroes.

You got "...Aren't you in the wrong room, Mr. Bond?.....Not from where I'm standing".

We got "Braddock!...Don't step on any toes!........I don't step on toes, Mr. Chairman.....I step on NECKS".

It was the same difference in vibe and "energy" in the general populace in America post 9/11 , and in England when the Blitz was on. Somewhat similar circumstances( though the blitz was longer), Similar but distinct reactions.

Here, there was the natural shock, then burst of outrage, but there was all of the singing and pulling together and for just those few days/weeks there were cross sections of US culture who were giving blood and volunteering on their own time to clean up Ground Zero and just pulling together in ways that were stone cold unthinkable to do prior to the event.

I've seen footage of the Blitz and heard accounts of how that was handled--Brits just kept right on, going to work, living their lives, didn't cave for one minute to the bombers, stiff upper lip and all that.

I mean we like to make noise every now and then about how we're a pretty tough breed when times call for it but even WE can't claim THAT level of resilience, it was like "right--is that all you got?"

Then we both commenced to asskicking but did it each in our accustomed ways--us, to fight like a young man, all recklessness, athleticism, size, strength and savagery,  and you, as an older, wiser one might--he's been young, and has been through that, and knows how to fight *around* a young man, slipping, voiding, countering and saving the energy for when a shot to where it HURTS opens up.


This last few years, I think, has forced us into a period of( i hope) forced maturation so maybe we'll start seeing more options as we stop being young--Our "young" country is getting to that late 20's-early 30's stage where the invincibility begins to wear off, and while his muscle isn't gone, he's getting sore for longer periods after each fight.

(Of course that'd have to put your country in his 70's but hell--so's Chuck Norris and nobody ****s with HIM).


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

*Gordon*, if that is a chip buttie, my friend, you had better think long and hard about what you are trying to imply ... :lol:. One of the foods of the (martial) gods is that.


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Sukerkin,
> 
> Elder does have a point. Or do you want me to tell the Americans about this?



Well the blood pudding and the haggis are awesome.  It just is not Christmas without the plum pudding, and what is roast beef without the Yorkshire pudding?

  As for the jellied eels...gack!

 Does Scotch count as part of the cuisine?  For that alone I can forgive the deep fried Mars bars.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> *Gordon*, if that is a chip buttie, my friend, you had better think long and hard about what you are trying to imply ... :lol:. One of the foods of the (martial) gods is that.



It most certainly is a chip buttie. British-style pubs were enormously popular in Toronto in the eighties -- there are still a few about. I worked as a waiter and later barman and manager at a joint called The Black Sheep. Pub grub included...

Scotch Egg 
Bangers, Beans and Chips
Bangers and Mash

...and various other delights that I've forgotten. 

However, in fairness, I must acknowledge Quebec's contribution to fine dining... Poutine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> However, in fairness, I must acknowledge Quebec's contribution to fine dining... Poutine.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine



 I have to say though, if you want great cuisine, Quebec is the place in Canada, maybe in North America.  I was in Quebec City last summer, the food is just awesome there.

 Try restaurant Initiale if you are ever there.

http://www.restaurantinitiale.com/


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Move along, move along.  Nothing to see here - go to post #55 to see what I said in full.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> It most certainly is a chip buttie. British-style pubs were enormously popular in Toronto in the eighties -- there are still a few about. I worked as a waiter and later barman and manager at a joint called The Black Sheep. Pub grub included...
> 
> Scotch Egg
> Bangers, Beans and Chips
> ...


 

Well that's one thing at least that Americans, Brits and Canadians CAN all agree on--We love our fries!


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> -We love our fries!



The correct term is "chips",  well I guess really "frites" and you can thank those Belgians...who also make some fine beers as many of my hangovers can attest to.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

Then what are chips? "Crisps" or somesuch?


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Then what are chips? "Crisps" or somesuch?



Daniel-San....chips are what go with the fish.  Crisps come in a mylar bag.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

I think, just as we've been discussing in the "Beers" thread, some foods do not travel well either and are best eaten in their homelands .

Deep fried Mars bars are simply a sin in anybody's book but a Scotsmans or maybe a Geordies :yeuk:.

*Andy*, "chips" are potato sliced into chunky slivers and deep fried {preferably slowly so they absorb loads of lovely fat ... what do you mean it's bad for you }


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

That's what I was asking--US fries = UK Chips, US chips= UK crisps, correct?


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips.  One is stringy, crisp and seemingly 99% salt, leaving you gasping for a cup of tea whilst the other is moist, steaming, coddled with fat (preferably animal not that namby vegetable oil crap) utterly scruptious and giving you a thirst for a beer .


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips.



And chips are nothing like frites.   I love being a wine and food snob. Too much foodnetwork for me.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips. One is stringy, crisp and seemingly 99% salt, leaving you gasping for a cup of tea whilst the other is moist, steaming, coddled with fat (preferably animal not that namby vegetable oil crap) utterly scruptious and giving you a thirst for a beer .


 

Aaah.
OK so what you refer to as chips would not correspond to our crappy fast food fries but closer to what we over here might call "steak fries". Yum.


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Well I think this thread has drifted enough, the difference between the US and the UK is surely the food and the beer, and the language, and the money, and the politics.....

 One last thought, as John Cleese said, there is no American English, there is only English English!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 21, 2009)

Well I made my sit-down-and-make-my-brain-hurt post at the end of page 3 so I earned a little food chat .

And yes I loved the Roast beef and Yorkshire puddings I had while there.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm not sure we're drifting as such, *Ramirez*. We're more sort of rambling amidst the things that make us different as well as the things that make us the same.

Some of these things will be Big Issue 'public' things like pivotal points of history but others, such as food and drink, are actually more important to us at the human scale. 

I recall very much that Leslie West, one of the members of Mountain (the creators of the superlative "Nantucket Sleighride") had a passion for British bangers and mash ... and who could blame him :yum:. Ann Wilson, of Heart, couldn't get enough Wrights Pies and Nookie Brown (with inevitable consequences ). 

I think our food likes and dislikes have a much more potent effect on our judgement of a country than we give it credit for.


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## Ramirez (Jan 21, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Nancy Wilson, of Heart, couldn't get enough Wrights Pies and Nookie Brown (with inevitable consequences ).



I think you mean Ann Wilson the portly and formerly hot brunette,  Nancy is the slim and still hot blonde.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 21, 2009)

Aye, I did . Sorry, that'll teach me to type whilst drinking and listening to Nantucket Sleighride :lol:. I'll edit the correction in. Particularly embarassing as Ann was ever my 'favourite' :blush:.


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## Tez3 (Jan 22, 2009)

Real British food is wonderful, preferably home cooked but there's many restaurants that serve good food, we have many fine chefs too that have also made it in America, Gordon Ramsey comes to mind.

Curries here go back to the Raj which has an influence in that shows in many ways. most curry houses are run by Indians and Pakistanis who do a wide variey of food styles. Birmingham for example is the Balti capital of the country. Wonderful curries!

The beans we sometimes have for breakfast ( with the full English fry up) are Heinz baked beans and purport to be American.

With Britain being a conservative country ( with a small c, not in the political sense) I would have expected America to have had the more liberal attitudes towards sex, abortion and homosexuality rather than us. It always surprises me how conservastive America is as a whole as it has always seem to be the place where the new ideas come from such as rock and roll which shocked so many at the time, and the gay marches.

I'm not sure that the immigrant population either were totally divorced from their original homelands, not in the way that Australians seem to embrace Australia. I think this is perhaps because so many left unwillingly seeing it as either their best chance to stay alive or to make a better life. of course there were many who obviously didn't want to go to America but had no choice having arrived as slaves.

The Pilgrim Fathers of course didn't leave the UK to find religious freedom, they left to pursue their own religion which they considered the true one and it didn't involve giving others any religious freedom either.

One thing to remember perhaps regarding wars is that when Japan attacked Pearl Harbour and America declared war on Japan, Winston Churchill declared war on Japan in solidarity with America, we weren't at war with Japan until then. It opened up another front and cost many lives so the help America gave wasn't a one way thing. Britain and the Commonwealth did reciprocate. Also too Germany and Italy declared war on America four days after Pearl Harbour, America didn't declare war on them first. Though surely the Germans and Italians made one hell of a mistake there!


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## Hand Sword (Jan 22, 2009)

I find this all funny. Speaking from an American's view--we can hardly stand each other! All we do is laugh and make fun of each other in every facet there is. New Yorker's vs. Bostonians, Northerners vs. Southerners, East Coast vs. West coast, etc.. Americans are so different in so many ways from town to town, state to state,  let alone anything international.


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## elder999 (Jan 22, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> The beans we sometimes have for breakfast ( with the full English fry up) are Heinz baked beans and purport to be American.
> !


 
Not for _breakfast_ though......the "full English fry up," starts out seeming wonderful, but for me was like some weird tour through the looking glass, or like American breakfast on LSD: _not quite right_. Mind ou, I'm not a fussy eater at all-I like dog, for gosh sakes!-, and I like 
kippered herring as much as the next person-even for breakfast-but, stewed tomatoes? I mean, c'mon!


Doesn't matter-you probably wouldn't care for _huevos rancheros_ either.....:lfao:



Hand Sword said:


> I find this all funny. Speaking from an American's view--we can hardly stand each other! All we do is laugh and make fun of each other in every facet there is. New Yorker's vs. Bostonians, Northerners vs. Southerners, East Coast vs. West coast, etc.. Americans are so different in so many ways from town to town, state to state, let alone anything international.


 

That's so true, but, I travel a lot, and I can go into any _Denny's_ in America, and come out reasonably satisfied with what I've ordered for breakfast.

 I've got two jokes I make about food-one being that breakfast is the best meal to get anywhere,because it's consistent, and because it's the hardest to ruin, and the other is that only the English could consistently ruin it.....:lfao:


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## Tez3 (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't eat all the full English because it involves bacon and pork sausages.
It's usually any combination or all of the following fried egg, rashers of bacon, sausage, fried fresh or tinned (not stewed lol) tomatoes, mushrooms, black pudding, fried bread, beans.

It's all savoury as opposed to having sweet maple syrup with your bacon and pancakes, now that's weird!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 22, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Real British food is wonderful, preferably home cooked but there's many restaurants that serve good food, we have many fine chefs too that have also made it in America, Gordon Ramsey comes to mind.
> 
> Curries here go back to the Raj which has an influence in that shows in many ways. most curry houses are run by Indians and Pakistanis who do a wide variey of food styles. Birmingham for example is the Balti capital of the country. Wonderful curries!
> 
> ...


 

That's the other thing I forgot to bring up in my last big post:

For all we might make fun of Britain( and to a degree it's other "kids", Canada, Australia, New Zealand), the fact remains:

Whenever we have either been forced, or otherwise felt it necessary right or wrong, to go into places bad, to do things terrible, to people deserving, you have always had our back.( Even in Vietnam--I bet a lot of Americans don't know, many of the "tunnel rat" teams were Aussies and Kiwis).

And y'know, families fight every now and then but they still remain family.

*raises glass* may we NEVER be enemies


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## mook jong man (Jan 22, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> That's the other thing I forgot to bring up in my last big post:
> 
> For all we might make fun of Britain( and to a degree it's other "kids", Canada, Australia, New Zealand), the fact remains:
> 
> ...


 
ANZAC - Lest we forget .


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## CoryKS (Jan 22, 2009)

Great, now I'm all hungry, despite that picture of a Canadian Chumbucket that Gordon provided above.


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## Steve (Jan 22, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips. One is stringy, crisp and seemingly 99% salt, leaving you gasping for a cup of tea whilst the other is moist, steaming, coddled with fat (preferably animal not that namby vegetable oil crap) utterly scruptious and giving you a thirst for a beer .


I like to make them at home, but the key is to fry them twice.  The first time on a lower heat and then the second just before you eat them to make them crispy on the outside.  A good fry/chip should be crispy on the outside.  

As a service to brits travelling in America, if you're looking for fries that are more like the greasy goodness you are used to, look for Steak Fries.  Steak Fries are wider, thicker cut, and tend to be less crispy.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

Cheers, *Steve*. Excellent cultural tip there along with a good culinary one :tup:.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 22, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Great, now I'm all hungry, despite that picture of a Canadian Chumbucket that Gordon provided above.



Yeah, Poutine is nasty, although I heard it's great while you're drinking.  Of course, people eat "Rocky Mountain Oysters" when they drink too!  LOL!


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## thardey (Jan 22, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> That's the other thing I forgot to bring up in my last big post:
> 
> For all we might make fun of Britain( and to a degree it's other "kids", Canada, Australia, New Zealand), the fact remains:
> 
> ...


 
I second that! England is one country I don't want to tangle with! My we watch your back as you watch ours!


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## Archangel M (Jan 22, 2009)

Interesting little blog post called Americans are Ignorant of the Rest of the World.


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## Ramirez (Jan 22, 2009)

I agree with that, it is easier for the rest of the world to know more about America because of its dominant economic power and exporting of popular culture than vice versa.     

 A quick look at the BBC international front page right now shows news about Obama, the oscars and the Hudson plane crash.

  I couldn't tell you the leaders of Italy, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Japan right now.


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## elder999 (Jan 22, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> II couldn't tell you the leaders of Italy, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Japan right now.


 
I could. :lol:

More to the point, though, I _couldn't_ tell you who the governors of the majority of the U.S. states are-New York, Texas, California, Alaska,Florida, Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona...maybe Nevada, but I'd have to check (Gibbons?)...and that's it. 

I don't know that having such knowledge is a fair expectation under the circumstances.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 22, 2009)

I've 'favourited' that blog to read when I'm less tired, *Angel* -cheers.  I'm sure I'll probably disagree with it but I'll certainly try and tell you why :tup:.


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## Archangel M (Jan 22, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I've 'favourited' that blog to read when I'm less tired, *Angel* -cheers. I'm sure I'll probably disagree with it but I'll certainly try and tell you why :tup:.


 
Oh Im shure that the accuracy of the labeling is probably innacurate, but I think the general idea is a valid one. America is a large place. I think Europeans forget that at times. Within the same area of Europe you have various nations, languages and cultures. It makes sense to be more sensitive to other cultures. Here in the same area there is a more homogenous culture. Even out close neighbor Canada is more similar in culture than different. Most Americans dont have to deal with different languages or countries on a regular basis so its somewhat natural to be less aware.


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## mook jong man (Jan 22, 2009)

What I can't understand is in Britain and America how come you all have such different accents from region to region . Australia is a big place too , we have outback properties that are bigger than some countries .

 But the only difference I can detect in our accent is that people in the state of Queensland talk a little bit slower than the rest of our states . 

Even New Zealanders talk pretty much the same as us except for a couple of differences in the pronounciation of some words and if they have been here for awhile it may take me a little while to figure out they're are even Kiwi .


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## jarrod (Jan 22, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Oh Im shure that the accuracy of the labeling is probably innacurate, but I think the general idea is a valid one. America is a large place. I think Europeans forget that at times. Within the same area of Europe you have various nations, languages and cultures. It makes sense to be more sensitive to other cultures. Here in the same area there is a more homogenous culture. Even out close neighbor Canada is more similar in culture than different. Most Americans dont have to deal with different languages or countries on a regular basis so its somewhat natural to be less aware.


 
i read a little bit of wisdom recently: "in britain, a hundred miles is a long way.  in america, a hundred years is a long time."  i think some of our worldview is shaped by our relatively short history & even our expansive geography.  we tend to feel like the whole world is our backyard because we're so big.  & because our history is so short, i think we sometimes lose sight of the big picture.  most americans are required to learn very little world history, so we have a hard time understanding long-term effects.  at least that's this american's immediate take.

jf


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## Archangel M (Jan 23, 2009)

Every time I hear the "most Americans have never even visited another country..." thing I cant help but think, hell I havent even seen the Grand Canyon, Alaska, Pearl Harbor or even any of the mid-west states!


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## jarrod (Jan 23, 2009)

you're really missing out on the midwestern states...


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## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2009)

When I was 16 years old, I bought my first vehicle for $50 dollars.  I fixed it in autoshop and then proceeded to drive across country with a tool box, a sleeping bag, some food, and a pistol.  Never had to touch the weapon except to squeeze off a few rounds in the desert at a few cactus.  

Anyway, I zigged and zagged across this country and have seen so many different things.

When I went to college, I met people from other countries and told them what I did, how far I roamed, and they were dumbfounded.  You can't make a six thousand mile circle in most places...unless you are in Siberia or China.  

America is special in that way.  We've got wide open spaces and only two borders.  It changes everything about how you see the people around you.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

{This is an aside, somewhat, from the path we've been walking in this thread, so please feel free to pass it on by if international relations is not a topic of interest}.

*Angel*, that was actually quite an interesting blog I have to say. I wish there had been more of an interchange in the comments as some good points were being made.

As expected, I do disagree with the basic premis of the argument for using GDP as an indicator of world prominance, particularly when applied to non-sovereign subdivisions of a country. It's an intriguing comparison to try and make but it is really a bit of a red-herring when talking about global influence.

Where the basic thrust of the blogs OP falls down is that it fails to take account of the fact that the world is a 'system' of nations constantly in a flux of checks and balances. 

At present, America's economic 'pile' seems overwhelming compared to the rest of the world (tho', as I've talked about before, much of that wealth is illusiory) but even so, in simple terms, she can still not just go anywhere and do anything she wishes. Money buys a wide freedom of action but the Great Game still has to be played if any country wants to get anything done. 

To treat many other nations of the world as of 'no account', as the blogger seems to want to encourage people to do, is a major failure to comprehend how the strings of diplomacy tie everything together. Such a failure has consequences when it comes to effectiveness of foreign policy and, as has been seen for the past decade or so, leads to the necessity of the use of military force to obtain the country's goals.

Just like individuals, Nations have characters, likes and dislikes, rememberences of favours and slights. These characters have just as much of an influence on world affairs as economic muscle.

The relationships between Great Britain, France and Germany are, to me, a wonderful illustration of the quirky way this game plays. Little of those ties that matter are purely fiscal and some are, on the surface, counterintuitive. 

For example, we get along much better with Germany than we do France, even tho' we expended our empire by twice pulling France out of the fire of Germany's expansionism. Why? It's not got a lot to do with money and an awful lot to do with history, particulary the lineages of certain important families. If you know and understand those 'blood ties' and some of the things that happened centuries ago, then it actually makes sense {to us :lol:}. If you just think in terms of economics, then it's nonsensical.

So, what I'm trying to burble towards a conclusion on here is that the blogger's world view is symptomatic of a lack of appreciation for how things really work and if he attempted to make policy decisions based upon economic relativism, without taking into account the other things I've been speaking about, then he would be 'riding for a fall', to use that marvelously evocative phrase.


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## Hagakure (Jan 28, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Sukerkin,
> 
> Elder does have a point. Or do you want me to tell the Americans about this?




Right, no, sorry, that's it. I can't keep quiet any longer. I've been reading this thread with interest, and a calm manner, until I saw someone take the p*ss out of a "chip butty" (shown above). You have NO idea how amazingly gorgeously filling these things are, especially with lashings of Tommy K. Ok they're a coronary in a sandwich, but that's by the by. They are incredible. End of.  As for the British V US cuisine thing, you guys gave us _fast food_ (insert well known FF establishments, which, for the sake of the board, I'll not mention) for Petes sake. Bleuuurgh! While we gave the world, the roast dinner, with Yorkshire Pudding (note the word "Yorkshire", a county of England)  Therefore, in this one small thing, we win. 

Anyway. Back on track. Lots of similarities, plenty of differences. I like Yanks, served with 'em in the 2nd Gulf. My impression was that you "think big", which I admire. Most Americans I've met that have been abroad have, in the main been very decent, down to Earth folk, with barely a handful of exceptions, you must have not let them out that year.  Do I think Americans are stereotyped? Utterly, are the Brits? Well, we all wear bowler hats, live in castles and the UK is exactly the way it was during the Middle Ages, it's not an over crowded council estate at all.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 28, 2009)

You speak for yourself . 

I wear a Cavalier hat, not a Bowler, actually am entitled to live in a castle (if a couple of hundred pesky relatives would conveniently die ) and whilst not from the Middle Ages exactly, my moral compass is firmly embedded in a previous century ... 

... ah, wait ... I think I might have missed the point there :lol:.

Nonetheless, on the matter of the chip butty in all it's mighty glory, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder against a world brim-full of State-Sponsored-Health-Nannies .


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## Hagakure (Jan 28, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> You speak for yourself .
> 
> I wear a Cavalier hat, not a Bowler, actually am entitled to live in a castle (if a couple of hundred pesky relatives would conveniently die ) and whilst not from the Middle Ages exactly, my moral compass is firmly embedded in a previous century ...
> 
> ...



Damn right mate. Bloody nanny-state. *rolls eyes*

Well, I live 45 mins from Warwick Castle, think that's the closest we get to ours.  Although we do have a lovely Roman Villa 15 minutes drive from us. It's odd to drive past 1800 year old ruins, then into 1000 year old towns (Wolverhampton, supposedly founded by the Saxon queen Wulfruna) then to my 1950s house. Blooming history, it's everywhere! 

That said, Native American history is old as time too, and fascinating. Took in some places on a trip to Montana/Wyoming/Idaho in my "yoof". Would love to do another tour of the US/Canada, maybe when the kids have flown the nest.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 28, 2009)

I quite agree.  

I would love to see some serious research done into what exactly happened to the Native American civilisations prior to 'our' arrival putting the 'lid on the pot' so to speak.

There is some tantalsing evidence that they had a 'light footed' (meaning they did not go in for monumental architecture) continent spanning civilisation that was ravaged by disease coming up from South America courtesy of the Spanish.  The arrival of the first British settlers was the nail in the coffin.

That is actually one of the big cultural differences come to think of it.  Our history is continuous and evolutionary whereas American history is disjunctured in two or three major fractures e.g. settlement and the Indian Wars, French sponsored revolution against the home country and, maybe, the Civil War between North and South.


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## Ray (Jan 28, 2009)

Hagakure said:


> Blooming history, it's everywhere!


And there seems to be more of it with every passing day.


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## Hagakure (Jan 29, 2009)

Ray said:


> And there seems to be more of it with every passing day.


 
Yep, pesky history!


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