# Patch rip of artists ......



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 9, 2005)

This response by Doc in another thread made me think......



			
				Doc said:
			
		

> You know, now I remember why it is so hard for *non* SL-4 students to get their hands on the unique SL-4 Kenpo Uniform Crest.
> 
> *It scares me to death* someone might show up in a video looking like crap. - or worse like the example shown here..... (referring to a thread that had some horrible videos of student trying to show self defense techniques)


 Many have devoted much of their lives to the study of American Kenpo. Since Mr. Parker's passing, a few have gone on to start their own groups. 

My focus is not on the validity of specific individuals undertaking such an endeavor, but rather, if this is the choice an individual makes.. at least be somewhat original and develop your own "stamp" as Mr. Parker used to say, and come up with your OWN original patch design, as opposed to simply stealing someone else's work and design. 

There are many, many patches that copy the founders original crest shape in some fashion {which I believe is in tribute to HIM} but many still manage to re-draw and change several aspects to make it their own unique design.

However, there are those PIRATES %-} that choose to just duplicate and flat out COPY OR STEAL SOMEONE ELSE'S DESIGN almost to the detail, which gives the outward visual appearance that they are representatives of the organization that actually developed the *original design* !! Let's face it .... the world is getting smaller and smaller ... particularly now that we have such a powerful vehicle such as "the Web"! It is harder to hide such actions, today anywhere in the WORLD! We are all busy little bees surfing with our unquenchable quest for knowledge and curiosity!

I know, I know.... mimicry is the highest form of flattery.... but come on... are these individuals so lacking in character and originality that they have no decency to respect someone else's work...... hell at least change a few things to actually be able to truthfully claim it for your own! 

I have called Paul Mills on a couple of occasions to let him know of just such duplication of his patch and certificates. (hecks, there was even a woman promoted to 10th Degree Black Belt with an exact copy of his patch on the certificate {and it was not even a Kenpo Ranking})!!!!!!!!! A couple of other individual's {possibly ex students} even copy his patch. He is not the only one either! An ex student of John Sepulveda's is doing the same darn thing, as well as someone that used to be associated with Larry Tatum {and Im sure there are more}!

It was pointed out recently to *me* that a studio in (of all places) the country of "*Hungary*" was using my IKKO Crest!! I went to the site and sure enough..... I thought I had a studio there! Yes Doc, it scares the hell out of me!! I have no such affiliates there (yet), and no one outside of the IKKO's direct contact is authorized to use any such items!

I sure glad that *my* students will never have to face the reality someday that their instructor is a _COPY CAT_ and _Lies_ to their students about the history of their patches and had the gall to steal someone else's designs with out permission.

I appreciate all who called me to inform me of this travesty as I do the same for my other Kenpo Brothers (regardless of their organizations or my personal feelings on what they have done or do) I still respect the fact that they are still "doing" ethically!! I would encourage all to do the same.

Each of us......... needs all of us! 

Unified diversity not separatist ego and lack of dignity.

Dennis Conatser
President I.K.K.O./Owner and Designer of the following Original Crest for exclusive use of registered I.K.K.O members:
:asian:


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## KENPOJOE (Apr 11, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> This response by Doc in another thread made me think......
> 
> Many have devoted much of their lives to the study of American Kenpo. Since Mr. Parker's passing, a few have gone on to start their own groups.
> 
> ...



Gee Dennis,
You could give a guy credit and say "KENPOJOE saw it on another website link he was sent regarding another kempo/kenpo group" but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I get no credit for pointing it out to you!  :whip:  :wah:  :tantrum: 
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 12, 2005)

KENPOJOE said:
			
		

> Gee Dennis,
> You could give a guy credit and say "KENPOJOE saw it on another website link he was sent regarding another kempo/kenpo group" but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I get no credit for pointing it out to you! :whip:  :wah:  :tantrum:
> BEGOOD,
> KENPOJOE


 Well, to tell you the truth, it didn't cross my mind to reveal my informant.... I didn't realize you needed attention that bad!   A thousand apologies kind sir.  Yes folks, what _*"KENPOJOE"*_ says is the truth.  He did indeed inform me of this!   I thanked him for telling me about this and sent an email to the group who is wearing my patch without permissiion, but of course received no response.   At least the truth is printed here and all can read.

 :asian:
 p.s. thanks again Joe.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 12, 2005)

Since you head the actual organization you should offer them a seminar -at their cost- and see what happens. They would have to accept you or have some splaining to do. Either way it could be interesting.
Sean


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## Doc (Apr 12, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> This response by Doc in another thread made me think......
> 
> Many have devoted much of their lives to the study of American Kenpo. Since Mr. Parker's passing, a few have gone on to start their own groups.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know how you feel D. Guys like you in particular, have put a great deal of effort into establishing a reputation in the arts, much like I have as well. Once you get beyond that, that is really all we have to those who don't know us personally.


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## Seabrook (Apr 12, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> This response by Doc in another thread made me think......
> 
> Many have devoted much of their lives to the study of American Kenpo. Since Mr. Parker's passing, a few have gone on to start their own groups.
> 
> ...


Wow! I can't believe this stuff actually goes on Dennis....the exact patch....yikes!

Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully some of that school's students will hear about this via the Internet.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## dubljay (Apr 12, 2005)

Since this topic has been brought up perhaps some one would care to answer a question I have.

 When (not if) I open my own school and begin teaching, I will not be using the _exact_ Parker ciriculum, I will be incorperating different material as a supplament.  

 I was planning on using Mr. Parker's patch still, and just incorperating one of my own design, but in light of this thread (and out of respect for Mr. Parker) should I only use a patch of my own design?

 Thanks

 -Josh


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 12, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> When I open my own  school and begin teaching, I will not be using the _exact_ Parker  curriculum, I will be incorporating different material as a supplement.
> 
> I was planning on using Mr. Parker's patch still, and just incorporating  one of my own design, but in light of this thread (and out of respect for Mr.  Parker) should I only use a patch of my own design?
> Thanks  -Josh


Well, that is an individual decision that you have to  make.  IMHO, since Mr. Parker is no longer with us, he is not capable of  watching over his own  Association and what and how individuals deal with  his/their curriculums (as they wear his original patch).  

I personally  felt it necessary to develop my own identity (since it is my organization, yet,  I still teach all his developed material  prior to his passing) I thus still  feel close, an honor him by keeping the same shape, principles and ideas while  adding and altering graphically many of the features (the outcome is what I  actually consider a 2nd Generation IKKA crest).

Others see it  differently, many have made and use his exact original design, (which to me was  his and IMHO only the family should have or sell this crest ).  But that's just  my opinion.  

At any rate, no matter what the choice...... the bottom  line is we are all in our own ways, honoring him by keeping his Art alive  and remembered.... Hell it's been 15 years since his passing and I still feel  him strongly... I just think he's on another trip out of  town!

 :asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 12, 2005)

Check out the photo gallery and patches on the individuals......

http://www.torakendo.com/index2.htm


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## dubljay (Apr 12, 2005)

Thank you very much Sir, that put a great deal into a new prespective. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (PS I promise not to steal yours or anyone elses patches
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## parkerkarate (Apr 12, 2005)

I agree with Mr. Conaster 100%. If you make up your own association, you need to come up with a new patch. Just as Mr. Conaster and my instructor Mr. Joe Palanzo has done. The WKKA looks nothing like Mr. Parkers patch.


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## hammer (Apr 12, 2005)

Sir,
On a lighter note, it happens to all the great brands just look at *nike, calvin cline,* 

But it was cute seeing the picture of the Master of cermonies mount the new black belt whilst tying his belt .LOL

Im sorry to hear about that , I Know how much pride you have in your creast and the IKKO.Im sure it will sort its self out quickly. After all the Goldens Dragon's wings spread far and wide.

CHEERS
Damien


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## Rick Wade (Apr 12, 2005)

Hey dragon I noticed that they have a banner with your crest on it maybe they will let you borrow it.  just kidding don't hurt me (flinching).

V/R
Rick


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 13, 2005)

Rick Wade said:
			
		

> Hey dragon I noticed that they have a banner with your crest on it maybe they will let you borrow it. just kidding don't hurt me (flinching).  V/R Rick


 just rub it in.........

 :waah:


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## Rick Wade (Apr 13, 2005)

I am glad you understand I was totally kidding.  However I was thinking about this thread last night.  Most people I they choose to make there own organization they _borrow_ bits and pieces from different patches to try and disguised the new design but it seems that these people don't have and original bone in there body.  Good job Kenpo Joe and If when I am flying back from Iraq I have a layover in Budapest again I will try to visit there school and ask a few questions since they don't seem to reply to your email.  I wont be leaving Iraq until the end of June or middle of July.  (fingers crossed). 

V/R

Rick


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Apr 13, 2005)

Along those same lines, what about those who test for one or two of the colored belt ranks buy all the patches and then suddenly promote themselves to blackbelt or higher.  These people attend other non-affiliated seminars and camps and, to those who don't know any better, appear to represent a rank and organization that they have not earned or might not even belong too.

I know the AKKI has had a problem recently with people wearing rank that they didn't earn and attending other seminars.  These people think that the belt and red tape is what makes them look good, but when they execute the material they look like a "retard trying to hump a doorknob."  :fanboy:   (to borrow a quote from the movie DodgeBall)  

I try to keep an open mind to the fact that unless I specifically know the person in question and their story I just assume that they don't necessarily reflect what another asssociation, as a whole, is doing or capable of.

Anyway, that's just my little rant.


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## Doc (Apr 13, 2005)

Kenpo Yahoo said:
			
		

> Along those same lines, what about those who test for one or two of the colored belt ranks buy all the patches and then suddenly promote themselves to blackbelt or higher.  These people attend other non-affiliated seminars and camps and, to those who don't know any better, appear to represent a rank and organization that they have not earned or might not even belong too.
> 
> I know the AKKI has had a problem recently with people wearing rank that they didn't earn and attending other seminars.  These people think that the belt and red tape is what makes them look good, but when they execute the material they look like a "retard trying to hump a doorknob."  :fanboy:   (to borrow a quote from the movie DodgeBall)
> 
> ...



Warning: What you have stated is classified as a *minor* tirade. I still hold the exclusive use of "rants" on MT in the Kenpo sections.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 13, 2005)

Kenpo Yahoo said:
			
		

> ..."retard trying to hump a doorknob." ...


Love it. Possibly one of the best descriptive phrases I've read yet regarding kenpo done poorly. Thank you.

D.


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## Sapper6 (Apr 13, 2005)

perhaps a registered trademark is the key.  doesnt cost that much.  if someone does decide to steal it, at least you have the law on your side and not just a loss of pride.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 13, 2005)

Kenpo Yahoo said:
			
		

> What about those who test for one or two of the colored  belt ranks buy all the patches and then suddenly promote themselves to blackbelt  or higher.


 LOL, it appears they have learned well from their  instructors!!!  :ultracool    

 Many Black Belts that only a couple of years earlier  were 5th, 6th or 7th Degree Black Belts (and many of them from questionable  backgrounds in the first place), over night become one two or three ranks  higher!!  

 The "Double *Red* Bar Syndrome" is  rampant and out of control!!  If Mr. Parker were here today, most of these guys  would NEVER even think of wearing that much *red*  due to embarrassment if ever asked to explain something by someone that really knows something.   They're only hoping that they never get in that position thus most stay in their  own little worlds or ponds and never venture out into the big real world (I'm  sure most are not aware of what people are saying behind their backs)!




			
				Kenpo Yahoo said:
			
		

> When they execute the material they look  like a "retard trying to hump a doorknob." :fanboy: (to borrow a quote from the movie DodgeBall)


 OMG....... Say it like it is Brother! !


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 13, 2005)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> Perhaps a registered trademark is the key. doesnt cost that much. if someone does decide to steal it, at least you have the law on your side and not just a loss of pride.


 Yes, if it is within the USA, but global is a completely different animal.  Each country is individual and has different specirfics as to copyrights.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 13, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Warning: What you have stated is classified as a *minor*  tirade. I still hold the exclusive use of "rants" on MT in the Kenpo  sections.


 Although we _*DO*_ let you "rant" on at times.......  you do not hold the entire exclusivity on rants!!!!!!!   LOL:mp5::uhyeah:


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## kenpoworks (Apr 14, 2005)

Re Trademark...I mentioned in the "Kenpo crest T shirts" thread that  a couple of people in Europe claim to hold legal copyrights for the Crest..... I dont know if its on a local or international basis though.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 15, 2005)

Mr. Conatser:

I like the art in your logo. Am I in violation of US trade law if I take it, and have a bunch of shirts made out of it in TJ? (I would look good in one of those shirts...)

Anyone wanna see a Tori gate get ripped up by a Golden Dragon? :uhyeah: 

D.


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 15, 2005)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Mr. Conatser:
> Anyone wanna see a Tori gate get ripped up by a Golden Dragon? :uhyeah:
> D.


I'm getting my "Tori Destruction Tools" out as we speak! :rofl: 

:asian:


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## sumdumguy (May 6, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> LOL, it appears they have learned well from their instructors!!! :ultracool
> 
> Many Black Belts that only a couple of years earlier were 5th, 6th or 7th Degree Black Belts (and many of them from questionable backgrounds in the first place), over night become one two or three ranks higher!!
> 
> ...


On the other hand Mr. Conatser, some of us are aware. But look at who is doing the talking and don't really pay much attention to it. Because it is as irrelevant as the rank we wear. Something like that.... 
Good day Sir


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