# Really discouraged!



## kehcorpz (Aug 11, 2016)

Hi,
I emailed a school which offers self defense and in my email I asked a few questions and
described a few things which worry me, like for example that in demo videos techniques all
work but that demo videos aren't very realistic and that I worry that you learn stuff which doesn't
work in reality.

And the guy replied and said that what counts is wether you have a fighting spirit and that if you're
a "head person" you can train whatever you want and you'll still get knocked out instantly!

Is this true? He also more or less told me that he wouldn't want me as student.

Now I'm really discouraged. 

I mean sure, I ask a lot of questions. But does this really mean that even if I learnt self-defense
it still wouldn't work for me?! Does this argument make sense?


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## JR 137 (Aug 11, 2016)

So let me get this straight...

You emailed the guy saying you think his videos are unrealistic and he's teaching unrealistic stuff, and you want him to want you as a student?

What response were you expecting?

And yeah, it doesn't matter what system you train in or what techniques you know, you'll still get KOed sometimes.  Why?  As Mr. Miyagi told Daniel-san, "...someone always know more."

It doesn't matter how well you know your stuff or how technical you get or how flawlessly you can execute technique...  If you're not mentally tough, the first strike that lands will send you on the ground crying, or worse.

On another note, a working definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.  You seem to fit that definition quite well.

I don't know if you're on drugs, or you need to be on drugs.  But whichever it is, it ain't working out for you.


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## Tames D (Aug 11, 2016)

I wouldn't accept you as my student either.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 11, 2016)

Yup.  Yer done for, I'm afraid.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 11, 2016)

No I did not tell him that HIS stuff sucks. I told him I watch many videos and that my concern is that the demonstrations
in the videos are usually never realistic and not like in a real fight.

Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.

I told him I watched a video where they showed a jiu jitsu technique against sharp weapons and that the technique wasn't good imo
cause he left his whole side open for an attack. 

Maybe he just realized that I'm a critical thinker and that he doesn't want people in his class which actually think and ask questions.


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## Tames D (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.
> Maybe he just realized that I'm a critical thinker and that he doesn't want people in his class which actually think and ask questions.


No, he is a member here and has been reading your posts. He knows you have no intention of training.


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## mograph (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I told him I watched a video where they showed a jiu jitsu technique against sharp weapons and that the technique wasn't good imo
> cause he left his whole side open for an attack.


Why did you tell him that? Really, what was your _purpose_ in telling him that? How was that not wasting his time?


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## kehcorpz (Aug 11, 2016)

mograph said:


> Why did you tell him that? Really, what was your _purpose_ in telling him that? How was that not wasting his time?



Why is this wasting his time? I only wanted to explain to him that I worry about learning techniques which don't work in real life
and I asked him what he thinks about this.

This is a normal question.

Anyway I wouldn't have gone to him anyway cause I found out that he likely sucks. But his reply still upsets and angers me.

This is almost discrimination against people which are a bit insecure and worry a lot.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No I did not tell him that HIS stuff sucks. I told him I watch many videos and that my concern is that the demonstrations
> in the videos are usually never realistic and not like in a real fight.
> 
> Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.
> ...


Sure, go with that.  Anything is possible...


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## JR 137 (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Why is this wasting his time?
> ...Anyway I wouldn't have gone to him anyway cause I found out that he likely sucks. But his reply still upsets and angers me.



The answer to why he treated you as he did lies in that quote.  



kehcorpz said:


> Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.
> 
> Maybe he just realized that I'm a critical thinker and that he doesn't want people in his class which actually think and ask questions.



Keep telling yourself that.


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## mograph (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Why is this wasting his time? I only wanted to explain to him that I worry about learning techniques which don't work in real life
> and I asked him what he thinks about this.
> 
> This is a normal question.



Um, nope. You are asking him to give you free wisdom, or at least information, because he is at a higher level than you: otherwise you wouldn't have asked him. And you are offering nothing in return, except _your_ opinion: the opinion of someone who doesn't _train_. 

Questions like yours should only be asked after a _relationship_ has been established between teacher and student. Once it is appropriate, the teacher will answer these kind of questions from a student. You are not this man's student, so you are wasting his time.



kehcorpz said:


> Anyway I wouldn't have gone to him anyway cause I found out that he likely sucks. But his reply still upsets and angers me.



So you're arrogant, too? Charming.



kehcorpz said:


> This is almost discrimination against people which are a bit insecure and worry a lot.


Just go to a class and stop wasting people's time. Once you've actually invested some sweat, or some skin on a mat, you'd have earned the right to engage in conversation.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> This is almost discrimination against people which are a bit insecure and worry a lot.



It is not discrimination.  People who are insecure and worry a lot are not a protected class.  You have no remedy.


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## pgsmith (Aug 11, 2016)

I had a student send me an email a while back where he described all sorts of issues he had, and worries about training, and stuff he saw on-line. I told him it was irrelevant and to come in and we'd see about him starting to train. When he showed up at the dojo, he again launched into a spirited discussion about himself and his worries until I stopped him. I told him I'd teach him, but his job was to simply try his best to understand and practice what was taught. He has advanced tremendously since he started, and he may be ready for shodan testing this fall at our school's annual U.S. gasshuku.

  Less chat more mat is always applicable.


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## Zumorito (Aug 11, 2016)

If you have worries about a teacher, then look for a different teacher I suppose. You can also teach yourself; sometimes seeking a teacher isn't feasible for a person's particular situation.


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## drop bear (Aug 11, 2016)

Do boxing.


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## frank raud (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I told him I watched a video where they showed a jiu jitsu technique against sharp weapons and that the technique wasn't good imo
> cause he left his whole side open for an attack.
> .


So, with ZERO training you are able to tell that a technique is no good because you see fault in it. Do you have a better technique, based on the same principles of the art you don't train in? You do realize that every time you perform a technique, there is an opening for a counter technique, and every counter technique also leaves an opening?


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## frank raud (Aug 11, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Do boxing.


I think Yellow Bamboo might be better suited.


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## JR 137 (Aug 11, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Do boxing.



Or Kyokushin if you want martial arts stuff - i.e. belts, uniforms, etc.

Boxing and Kyokushin are both complete arts that include ground fighting - you knock your opponent to the ground, and he doesn't get up.  Both include weapons - YOU are the weapon.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Is this true? He also more or less told me that he wouldn't want me as student.



Based on your posting here I think a larger percentage of instructors wouldn't want you as a student.  Pick a place, go train.  Or don't, it doesn't sound like you really want too anyways.  It sounds like you like the idea of it, but until you actually go sign up and train that's all you got, an idea.  Spend a year in the biggest "McDojo" out there and it will still serve you more good then posting about why every single school is bad and not doing anything.


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## Tames D (Aug 11, 2016)

frank raud said:


> I think Yellow Bamboo might be better suited.


I was thinking Paddy Cake Paddy Cake. But on 2nd thought might be too violent for him.


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## mograph (Aug 11, 2016)

Tames D said:


> I was thinking Paddy Cake Paddy Cake. But on 2nd thought might be too violent for him.


Are you talking about _internal_ or _external_ styles of patty cake? But then again, both roads lead to the summit, I suppose.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 11, 2016)

-> ->  ->  ->  ->  -> -> ->  ->


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## Blindside (Aug 11, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I mean sure, I ask a lot of questions. But does this really mean that even if I learnt self-defense
> it still wouldn't work for me?! Does this argument make sense?



If you don't have the will to fight a particular technique is immaterial, you don't even have the will to get off your butt and visit a school in person.


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## Juany118 (Aug 12, 2016)

I said it elsewhere and I will say it again.  This is what you say to an instructor who has attracted your interest...

1. The reason you want to learn martial arts.
2. Any physical or emotional limitations you may have.

Then ask if their art is right for you.  You will get more than just a yes or no.  When you ask questions in the formats you do, whether you know it or not, you are directly challenging the guy (like the time you asked "is your art better than...") or indirectly by saying "I look at all these self defense videos and the techniques just don't look like they work."

No one is going to want to deal with such a person.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hi,
> I emailed a school which offers self defense and in my email I asked a few questions and
> described a few things which worry me, like for example that in demo videos techniques all
> work but that demo videos aren't very realistic and that I worry that you learn stuff which doesn't
> ...


He can obviously tell your a keyboard warrior. A guy who tells an instructor about all the weaknesses of martial arts yet has never done one class what's he supposed to think. If you gave him all the questions you've been putting on here then he's right to say he doesn't want you...good school obviously not a McDojo...or maybe you're so annoying even a McDojo would be embarrassed to have you as a student


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No I did not tell him that HIS stuff sucks. I told him I watch many videos and that my concern is that the demonstrations
> in the videos are usually never realistic and not like in a real fight.
> 
> Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.
> ...


Oh because you're revolutionary genius who is the only one who knows the truth right? Yeah he gets sick of stupid questions like duhhh do you teach me to block duhhh do I need to pay you


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 12, 2016)

What is it you want out of martial arts again?  Or do you just want to get people to answer you because you feel lonely?  If so, that's OK, but let us know.  If there is something in particular you want out of martial arts, there are a lot of people here who are experienced in learning, and some of them teach as well.  When most of the answers start sounding the same, maybe you should pay attention.

As to your statements in your post here.  You know you know nothing about learning martial arts.  Why do you constantly challenge people here as if you did?  You seem to criticize every school you look at, and without visiting them.  What knowledge do you have to do that?  None.  You don't know enough about any art to do that.  I have seen videos on MT that have received a lot of criticism.  That criticism is often not because the technique doesn't work, but that the art of the criticizer doesn't think it will work.  A twist on the old saying; if your only tool is a hammer, anything you see that doesn't look like a nail won't be any good.  It doesn't mean there is only one good martial art, it just means many MA have a different focus.

As you have been told over and over again, go to some of the schools in your area and watch.  If you have questions, ask them.  If you want to criticize people with much more experience in an art than you will ever have, keep your mouth shut, take your hammer with you, and go look for something else.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 12, 2016)

*He may be like most people in life who have no time for someone trying to waste their time! 
*
If you want to train, find some place and train.  Quite wasting people's time here or elsewhere!


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## Charlemagne (Aug 12, 2016)

Guys.  I have only been on this forum for a short time, but it has become obvious that this guys is just a troll who is toying with everyone.  No one on the planet is this clueless given the number of times people have


Brian R. VanCise said:


> *He may be like most people in life who have no time for someone trying to waste their time!
> *
> If you want to train, find some place and train.  Quite wasting people's time here or elsewhere!




He's obviously just baiting everyone.  No one is this dense.  He's one, or an amalgam of all, of the following:

Enfant Provocateur
Lamer
Loopy
Troller


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## Flying Crane (Aug 12, 2016)

There is a solution to this problem:  everyone could just stop responding to anything he says.  Don't even look at his posts, so the thread history shows zero views.   Eventually he will get bored with his monologue and go away.

It will take discipline, the temptation will be tremendous.  But we can do it, if we choose to so unite.


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## mograph (Aug 12, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> There is a solution to this problem:  everyone could just stop responding to anything he says.  Don't even look at his posts, so the thread history shows zero views.   Eventually he will get bored with his monologue and go away.


Ah, I see. Look at the left column, and the name of the OP will be there. Ignore all threads started by this particular troll (the listed OP). Done!


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## Charlemagne (Aug 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> Ah, I see. Look at the left column, and the name of the OP will be there. Ignore all threads started by this particular troll (the listed OP). Done!



I'm not seeing it.  I can ignore the user, but not the threads.  Can you be more specific?


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## pgsmith (Aug 12, 2016)

If you ignore the user, then future threads started by this user will not show.


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## mograph (Aug 12, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> If you ignore the user, then future threads started by this user will not show.


Ah -- sorry, I was ignoring in the _traditional_ sense of simply not directing my attention, but not in the "Ignore User" sense. Got it. Ignoring.

Edit: Actually, now that I've ignored the OP, _this_ thread doesn't show up in the feed, even though it's an existing thread. Good news all around.


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## pgsmith (Aug 12, 2016)

Yep, you and me both!


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 12, 2016)

Tames D said:


> I wouldn't accept you as my student either.


Aw, crap. Now KEHCORPZ has me agreeing with Tames D. This dude is bad news...


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## KenpoMaster805 (Aug 12, 2016)

Do American Kenpo karate its the best


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hi,
> I emailed a school which offers self defense and in my email I asked a few questions and
> described a few things which worry me, like for example that in demo videos techniques all
> work but that demo videos aren't very realistic and that I worry that you learn stuff which doesn't
> ...



I actually have some sound advice if you are willing to listen. I've been doing Brazilian Jujitsu as my primary art (sport), and I do basic self defense seminars when I can. I carry a handgun for self defense and so a lot of my self defense stuff is more about either getting out of the way and NOT fighting...or getting up and getting away from someone. Space is my friend. Everything I do...I try and use my head and think about how do I avoid the fight...and how do I get out of the fight quickly. Why?

1) There is ALWAYS a bigger, better, badder, tougher, meaner, nastier fighter. ALWAYS!

It doesn't matter how good of an instructor you are...your instructor probably wouldn't last in a fight with a juiced up a Brock Lesnar.    But your instructor might know some dirty techniques to keep himself alive long enough to pull a gun, keys, a knife, a rock, pen, or another person to help out. The reality is that he has to have have learned those techniques to use them. And he has to have drilled them long enough for them to be reaction...hard wired. 

Self defense is a mindset. And you have to shape that mindset first. You shape that mindset by learning techniques and learning how to avoid fights. By playing mental games, and then learning how to turn off the chess game and just MOVE. 

So the short version: get in and take classes. Just like any other sport. Being great doesn't mean you always win. It means you give yourself a better chance. 


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 12, 2016)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Do American Kenpo karate its the best


He's not going to do anything everyone here knows that haha


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## kehcorpz (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi,
we dont have guns here unfortunately. The only ones with guns are the bad guys which get the illegally.

Yes, I have no practical experience but I know that this technique here sucks. His right side is totally open for attack.
Go to 7:00

Tell me that this technique does not suck.






I just don't want to learn anything which sucks, like this technique in the video. Why is this so hard to understand?!

I am simply unsure what really works and what does not work. It makes no sense to learn stuff which isn't going to work.

What sense does it make to learn such a technique as in the video which offers NO protection? He can get knocked out
any time while doing this technique.


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## Tames D (Aug 12, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Aw, crap. Now KEHCORPZ has me agreeing with Tames D. This dude is bad news...


I knew you would eventually come over to the Dark Side.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hi,
> we dont have guns here unfortunately. The only ones with guns are the bad guys which get the illegally.
> 
> Yes, I have no practical experience but I know that this technique here sucks. His right side is totally open for attack.
> ...


So let me some up your sentence "I know nothing yet I know this sucks "


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## kehcorpz (Aug 12, 2016)

No! I DO know theoretical stuff about protecting your centerline.

And having one side open is NOT good. I know enough to know that.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No! I DO know theoretical stuff about protecting your centerline.
> 
> And having one side open is NOT good. I know enough to know that.


You mean you watched someone talk about it okay come on then sensai give us a good detailed explanation on what the centreline.

Yeah you said it /theoretical/ sometimes there's a difference to reality


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## drop bear (Aug 12, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> Or Kyokushin if you want martial arts stuff - i.e. belts, uniforms, etc.
> 
> Boxing and Kyokushin are both complete arts that include ground fighting - you knock your opponent to the ground, and he doesn't get up.  Both include weapons - YOU are the weapon.



I am kyokushin sparring today.  I am going to get head kicked like a fool.

By the way op.  Go in to a boxing school ask them those questions.

 A lot of martial arts will let you try out the instructor in sparring. Without it ever becoming a death match.


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## drop bear (Aug 12, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Guys.  I have only been on this forum for a short time, but it has become obvious that this guys is just a troll who is toying with everyone.  No one on the planet is this clueless given the number of times people have
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You overestimate people.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No! I DO know theoretical stuff about protecting your centerline.
> 
> And having one side open is NOT good. I know enough to know that.


You really don't. Your comments illustrate as much. And until you actually start training, you won't.


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hi,
> we dont have guns here unfortunately. The only ones with guns are the bad guys which get the illegally.
> 
> Yes, I have no practical experience but I know that this technique here sucks. His right side is totally open for attack.
> ...



You don't know what sucks till you deal with it. Gotta get in the gym and train my man. 


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.


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## frank raud (Aug 12, 2016)

With your superior understanding of what constitutes a technique that doesn't suck, it is obvious that you can now eliminate all arts that would use a two handed control on a weapon bearing limb from your consideration of which art to not train in. Just think, no need to check out, wrestling, judo, jiu jitsu, aikido, hapkido, the FMAs, most Chinese arts, Silat or other Indonesian arts, combatives, Krav Maga and others.
Or you could actually study an art (just pick one) and realize that while your sucky technique exposes the entire right side of the defender, he has the BG right hand locked up, controls his balance and can completely destroy the bg wrist, shoulder and elbow if an attempt is made by the bg to counter on his offside from an unbalanced position. But you find fault because, after all, you have never trained.


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No! I DO know theoretical stuff about protecting your centerline.
> 
> And having one side open is NOT good. I know enough to know that.



I have wonder...are you jittery about trying our first class? You shouldn't be. Most classes are filled with good people who just want to learn and had no knowledge before trying too. 


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 12, 2016)

So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.

I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
have a problem.

@ stonewall

But I already have some knowledge and this makes me more critical. Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.
> 
> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem.
> ...


Actually, I hate it when students don't ask questions. I just want them to be INFORMED questions. Yours are not.


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## drop bear (Aug 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.
> 
> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem.
> ...



Fast is a complicated subject. Because you not only have genetics and speed training. You are also dealing with efficiency and ringcraft.


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## Juany118 (Aug 13, 2016)

Tames D said:


> I was thinking Paddy Cake Paddy Cake. But on 2nd thought might be too violent for him.



Like this?


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## Tames D (Aug 13, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Like this?


That the one. The Southern style PCPC (as shown) is much more dynamic and dangerous than it's Northern style counterpart.


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## drop bear (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> No! I DO know theoretical stuff about protecting your centerline.
> 
> And having one side open is NOT good. I know enough to know that.



But is better than copping a knife in the eye. 

Your options become a bit limited. So yes you are open to getting punched. But two hands will raise the likleyhood that you will actually catch the knife. 

It is a tricky one to resolve there.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.
> 
> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem.
> ...


NO YOU DON'T you have no knowledge at all those videos have taught you nothing and anyone with even 1 lesson of training knows far more than you do


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## RTKDCMB (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> He also more or less told me that he wouldn't want me as student.



Because your cup is already full.



kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.



He is doing it slowly because he is demonstrating. It's not rocket science.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2016)

RTKDCMB said:


> Because your cup is already full.
> 
> 
> 
> He is doing it slowly because he is demonstrating. It's not rocket science.


Okay, I'm going to hijack this thread in a possibly useful direction.

This is the problem with evaluating an art, style, or school solely from videos. Many videos are meant to teach or illustrate techniques. To do this, they normally show a very pure version of the technique, which requires using a compliant partner. To see the effects of a non-compliant partner on excellent technique, watch Olympic Judo matches; you can't see most of the technique because of the struggle, and what you can see is super-fast. This is actually what leads to many of the "TMAs suck" comments, when they are based on demonstrations, practice sessions using exercises for muscle memory, and teaching videos. None of those show what the techniques look like "in the wild", since the technique's street application will often be too messy and obscured by adjustments to the situation to be easily recognizable by anyone but an experienced student, and even that experienced student won't be able to see some of the finer points of the principles used. (Wow, long sentence. I'm exhausted.)


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## frank raud (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.
> 
> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem..


Please, typing slowly and using small words so I can understand, explain how you believe ANY counter technique will work if it is done slow. PS. bonus points for thinking that if your counter technique doesn't work while someone is trying to stab you, it might be "risky". Because there was no danger of that before you attempted your technique.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough?



I can hit you if I do it before you can block or evade. I can block your strike if I do it before you hit me. Does the word "Duh" mean anything to you.



kehcorpz said:


> Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.



That's because the video is a staged demo intended for an audience composed primarily of the ignorant.



kehcorpz said:


> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem.



Do you even stop to think at all before you post? Sitting on your *** pretending you're a martial artist because you watched some YouTube videos (which you're too ignorant to even form a valid opinion on)... now THAT is risky.



kehcorpz said:


> But I already have some knowledge and this makes me more critical.



No, you do not. You're critical because you're foolish.



kehcorpz said:


> Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.



Teachers like students who ask questions. But you're not a student. You're a foolish ignoramus.


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## RTKDCMB (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Teachers probably don't like it when students ask too many questions.



As an instructor I like being asked question, I just don't much like being asked stupid questions.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 13, 2016)

RTKDCMB said:


> As an instructor I like being asked question, I just don't much like being asked stupid questions.


It is often said that there are no stupid questions.

But really, there are stupid questions.


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## Juany118 (Aug 13, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Okay, I'm going to hijack this thread in a possibly useful direction.
> 
> This is the problem with evaluating an art, style, or school solely from videos. Many videos are meant to teach or illustrate techniques. To do this, they normally show a very pure version of the technique, which requires using a compliant partner. To see the effects of a non-compliant partner on excellent technique, watch Olympic Judo matches; you can't see most of the technique because of the struggle, and what you can see is super-fast. This is actually what leads to many of the "TMAs suck" comments, when they are based on demonstrations, practice sessions using exercises for muscle memory, and teaching videos. None of those show what the techniques look like "in the wild", since the technique's street application will often be too messy and obscured by adjustments to the situation to be easily recognizable by anyone but an experienced student, and even that experienced student won't be able to see some of the finer points of the principles used. (Wow, long sentence. I'm exhausted.)



Exactly.  I showed a video of honest to goodness Wing Chun fighting (gloves only) and someone was arguing "where's the Wing Chun.  I explained it was there you just have to actually know WC to see it.  It is like this with many MA's.  There is a difference between learning in the Dojo and demonstration vs application in traditional Martial Arts.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Exactly.  I showed a video of honest to goodness Wing Chun fighting (gloves only) and someone was arguing "where's the Wing Chun.  I explained it was there you just have to actually know WC to see it.  It is like this with many MA's.  There is a difference between learning in the Dojo and demonstration vs application in traditional Martial Arts.


Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 13, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.




Same thing when you're hitting pads your combos look nice and sharp but when you spar they don't always look as good


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## mograph (Aug 13, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Actually, I hate it when students don't ask questions. I just want them to be INFORMED questions. Yours are not.


If the questions are not informed, then an _awareness_ of that, along with _humility_, might lead to an answer?


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## drop bear (Aug 13, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Yes. When I demonstrate a technique on a student to explain the movements, it's a gorgeous thing. All flowy and balanced. When I use a technique on a student who's trying to stay upright, it rarely looks nearly so nice. It still works, but things get less pretty.



They are different techniques. Took me a while to learn that.


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> So the technique does work if done fast enough? Cause in the video he wasn't doing it fast.
> 
> I was just thinking that if a technique only works if you're fast enough then doing this technique is risky cause if you're not fast enough you
> have a problem.
> ...



You have white belt knowledge. That means you don't have knowledge. It means you don't know the nuances. A strike that you THINK won't work because "technically," will 100% work in reality when the opponent doesn't see it coming because they put their position all wrong.

Take the hip toss. Works all the time. You've seen it work if you have watched judo or MMA. and when you do it? It is really awkward and doesn't feel like you will ever get it...

And then you do it for real for the first time. And then you feel WHY it works. Where it works. How it works.

Honestly dude. Instructors don't mind questions. What they don't like is being told that their dedicated and chosen art doesn't work by someone who has never even done an art before. Technical knowledge is nothing.

As mike Tyson said: everyone has a plan till they get hit. 


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.


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## KangTsai (Aug 14, 2016)

You screwed up. Don't do this with other instructors and just go to the bloody free sessions they likely offer. Nobody would accept you kindly if all you did was challenge them from a point of lower authority.


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## Azulx (Aug 17, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> You screwed up. Don't do this with other instructors and just go to the bloody free sessions they likely offer. Nobody would accept you kindly if all you did was challenge them from a point of lower authority.



When I was a blue belt about a year ago, I had a white belt challenge me. I was brand new to our instructor program. My instructor asked me to work with this particular white belt. We were working on a wrist grab release. It worked when the opponent was doing the technique we were going against. Then he started with all the "what ifs." The defense was against someone grabbing the arm. While I was demonstrating the technique I asked him to be the student to help me. He grabbed my wrist as I performed the technique he jumped and spun. Then said "It didn't work." I looked at him and said yes because you jumped and spun. He took at as 'you are teaching me a useless technique.' The thing is if this was an actual self -defense situation, and my aggressor is in the air spinning, I would use a completely different technique. It was almost as stupid as if we were doing a front punch defense and he kicked me in the shin and said, yeah your block didn't work. No sheet! that isn't what we're working on. White Belt logic like that is counter productive and doesn't help anything.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Azulx said:


> When I was a blue belt about a year ago, I had a white belt challenge me. I was brand new to our instructor program. My instructor asked me to work with this particular white belt. We were working on a wrist grab release. It worked when the opponent was doing the technique we were going against. Then he started with all the "what ifs." The defense was against someone grabbing the arm. While I was demonstrating the technique I asked him to be the student to help me. He grabbed my wrist as I performed the technique he jumped and spun. Then said "It didn't work." I looked at him and said yes because you jumped and spun. He took at as 'you are teaching me a useless technique.' The thing is if this was an actual self -defense situation, and my aggressor is in the air spinning, I would use a completely different technique. It was almost as stupid as if we were doing a front punch defense and he kicked me in the shin and said, yeah your block didn't work. No sheet! that isn't what we're working on. White Belt logic like that is counter productive and doesn't help anything.


These discussions happen in every school (at least, every school that has inquisitive students). I spend time explaiining exactly what you did: that techniques work when they are used appropriately. This is actually a core part of how I teach NGA - I work to help students understand why and how they would choose a specific technique/application, rather than just teaching them sequences of movements and waiting for them to develop that sense of which technique to choose.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Why is this wasting his time? I only wanted to explain to him that I worry about learning techniques which don't work in real life
> and I asked him what he thinks about this.
> 
> This is a normal question.
> ...



If you lived close to me...I would train you. 
+


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> These discussions happen in every school (at least, every school that has inquisitive students). I spend time explaiining exactly what you did: that techniques work when they are used appropriately. This is actually a core part of how I teach NGA - I work to help students understand why and how they would choose a specific technique/application, rather than just teaching them sequences of movements and waiting for them to develop that sense of which technique to choose.



I've never really been a fan of the "if this then that" wording of many of the techniques we learn. I feel like it leads to this kind of silly confusion. The reality for most of us that even though it IS an "if this then that" type of move...that isn't how it feels. It isn't a step by step thing.

It is a flow thing. A feeling. It feels this way so the natural response should be along these lines or something else if it feels wrong. It is like water...it flows with the path of least resistance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> If you lived close to me...I would train you.
> +


You might be willing, but you'd never get the chance, because he's clearly not going to show up anywhere to train.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> I've never really been a fan of the "if this then that" wording of many of the techniques we learn. I feel like it leads to this kind of silly confusion. The reality for most of us that even though it IS an "if this then that" type of move...that isn't how it feels. It isn't a step by step thing.
> 
> It is a flow thing. A feeling. It feels this way so the natural response should be along these lines or something else if it feels wrong. It is like water...it flows with the path of least resistance.
> 
> ...


It takes a very long time for most students to get that "flow" feeling. Until then, they need to understand when NOT to use a technique, so they can select from among the techniques that would fit the situation. It really is an "if this then not that" situation. For instance, if you block their punch and end up with your hand (and your body) on the outside of their arm, our Elbow Chop isn't a good choice. Unless they pull back while you have that contact, then the Elbow Chop often comes into play.

Once they have enough techniques and enough experience to form proper pattern recognition and automate it (this is what creates that "flow" feeling), they don't usually need the input of an instructor to make those connections and selections.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> You might be willing, but you'd never get the chance, because he's clearly not going to show up anywhere to train.


At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.


When a guy basically insults the instructors style by email saying things like I don't think this will work or I saw this video and this is actually better than what you do or I have knowledge in certain areas and believe this. I mean the guy can't even go to the guys school to talk to instructor face to face about his issues he hides behind a computer and does it and from what we've seen even if he did answer his questions perfectly this clown would still have some issue like oh but jackie chan did it better in rush hour


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.


He spends too much time asking vague and uninformed questions here, rather than going out and talking to instructors and watching classes. Most of us have lost patience with his endless list of excuses. I get folks coming in to ask questions about my program, and I simply answer them. If they have a poor attitude, I'm unlikely to accept them into the program, because that would be unfair to the other students.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> When a guy basically insults the instructors style by email saying things like I don't think this will work or I saw this video and this is actually better than what you do or I have knowledge in certain areas and believe this. I mean the guy can't even go to the guys school to talk to instructor face to face about his issues he hides behind a computer and does it and from what we've seen even if he did answer his questions perfectly this clown would still have some issue like oh but jackie chan did it better in rush hour


Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.

He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.

I actually think its refreshing, to see someone be so picky instead of just going with the crowd and training in untested systems.

If it doesnt work in combat...to some people its useless and a waste of time and effort to even train. 
He seems to be one of those people.

Researching and asking questions about every art, is the right thing to do.

A large percentage of instructors have never even been in a real altercation. Yet, they pretend that they have knowledge simply because they have trained for years.

Its just not the reality of actual experience. I dont care if you are an infinity dan ranking or grand pooba of whatever system. A controlled environment such as competition, is not helpful in actual self defense situations.

Now, this is from my personal experience and is my personal observation.

As soon as I hear a blackbelt or instructor say they have never been in an actual fight. I know training with them is useless, for me.

I know some people train for different reasons...and I believe you should train what your heart desires, even if it is competitive, but make sure you know what your instructors actual experience is, before training with them.

To choose the martial way of life is a huge step and any real instructor, would answer this guys instruction...with a smile on their face.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.
> 
> He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.
> 
> ...


If he wants to find out fine but he's not even turning up to ask questions and he's acting like a know it all based on videos. Honestly saying you wouldn't train with someone who's never been in a fight is limiting you. Chuck norris has said multiple times he's never been in a fight does that make him a bad instructor or not know anything? What about people like cus d'amato or Angalo Dundee all expert coaches but not amazing fighters


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.
> 
> He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.
> 
> ...


I think you're overlooking his excuses along the way. I hope you're right about him, though. I'd rather him get in and get training.


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> At least not until an instructor gets off of his high horse and answer his questions.



  Then please feel free to get off your high horse and answer his questions.



Guthrie said:


> Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.
> 
> He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.
> 
> ...


 
  Then I guess it's obvious that the many *actual* instructors on this forum that have told him to just shut up and go train are not real instructors in your world view. I would feel diminished by your judgment except for the fact that I really don't care what you think about a *real* instructor should be.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> If he wants to find out fine but he's not even turning up to ask questions and he's acting like a know it all based on videos. Honestly saying you wouldn't train with someone who's never been in a fight is limiting you. Chuck norris has said multiple times he's never been in a fight does that make him a bad instructor or not know anything? What about people like cus d'amato or Angalo Dundee all expert coaches but not amazing fighters


Sport coachs are great for teaching sport, not for actual combat. There is a major difference between the two. Real world experience will show any sport only coach that.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Then please feel free to get off your high horse and answer his questions.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I guess it's obvious that the many *actual* instructors on this forum that have told him to just shut up and go train are not real instructors in your world view. I would feel diminished by your judgment except for the fact that I really don't care what you think about a *real* instructor should be.


Well thats the problem with fakes, they want to train you to be them and bow to their authority and beliefs. IMO, that is not what it is about, its about teaching them to be the best individual they can be and to seek answers to questions they have. If as an instructor, you can't or do not have the patience for people like him, you are a danger.


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Well thats the problem with fakes, they want to train you to be them and bow to their authority and beliefs. IMO, that is not what it is about, its about teaching them to be the best individual they can be and to seek answers to questions they have. If as an instructor, you can't or do not have the patience for people like him, you are a danger.



  Yep, I've been a danger probably longer than you've been alive. I'll continue to be a danger for at least a couple more decades I think. I'd say I'm sorry to disappoint you, except that I'm not.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Well thats the problem with fakes, they want to train you to be them and bow to their authority and beliefs. IMO, that is not what it is about, its about teaching them to be the best individual they can be and to seek answers to questions they have. If as an instructor, you can't or do not have the patience for people like him, you are a danger.


"Danger" is a pretty strong word to apply to someone deciding a student isn't in a teachable state of mind.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Yep, I've been a danger probably longer than you've been alive. I'll continue to be a danger for at least a couple more decades I think. I'd say I'm sorry to disappoint you, except that I'm not.


You should be more concerned about your students well being.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> You should be more concerned about your students well being.


Since you defined the "danger" as not being willing to work with a student like that, I don't see how his choice has a negative impact on his students. In my view, he's protecting them from folks who don't have a teachable attitude, and who might decide to try to prove the instructor wrong on a junior student.


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> You should be more concerned about your students well being.



  Ha! I don't even worry much about my own son's well being any more, much less some kid that can't be bothered to drag his sorry butt to a dojo.

  Here's a short but interesting article written by an acquaintance of mine that pretty much describes the outlook of the Japanese koryu arts that I practice. It's pretty dangerous according to your viewpoint.  

 So you want to join the ryu?


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## JR 137 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, as an instructor, who has the knowledge, you should swallow your pride. It is obvious that he is intetested but he keeps running into instructors who think what they teach is dacred knowledge. I run into that all the time and have ran into it all across the u.s.
> 
> He is looking for real arts...not sport. He doesnt want a competitive instructor. He wants a real one. Hence all of his questions.
> 
> ...



You're missing a key piece of information (hopefully)...  He's been told countless times to visit as many schools as possible in his locale.  He's been told countless times that the instructor and potential classmates will make or break his training.  He's been told everything else along these lines ad nauseum.

Yet he hasn't visited a single school in person.  He watches videos and criticizes everything he sees and says he wouldn't train in that.  He criticizes payment policies.  He criticizes ad nauseum.

That's why people have responded to him the way we have.  No one jumped on him immediately.  Look at how many threads he's started and the absurd posts he's made.

Maybe you've followed his posts, maybe you haven't.  Doesn't matter to me, and I'm assuming not to the overwhelming majority of people here either.

Take him under your wing.  Guide him along his journey.  But remember, a journey of a million miles begins with a single step.  He has yet to get off the couch, let alone stand up to actually take that first step.

Hopefully you can help him find his way.  Don't hold your breath though.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> "Danger" is a pretty strong word to apply to someone deciding a student isn't in a teachable state of mind.


As an instructor, I believ


gpseymour said:


> Since you defined the "danger" as not being willing to work with a student like that, I don't see how his choice has a negative impact on his students. In my view, he's protecting them from folks who don't have a teachable attitude, and who might decide to try to prove the instructor wrong on a junior student.


be
Everyone is tteachable it is, and always is the teachers fault.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Ha! I don't even worry much about my own son's well being any more, much less some kid that can't be bothered to drag his sorry butt to a dojo.
> 
> Here's a short but interesting article written by an acquaintance of mine that pretty much describes the outlook of the Japanese koryu arts that I practice. It's pretty dangerous according to your viewpoint.
> 
> So you want to join the ryu?


No need to review it, your first paragraph tells me all I need to know about you.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Really, I am just amazed how many here will reject a difficult student.


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## lklawson (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Everyone is tteachable it is, and always is the teachers fault.


That has got to be the single stupidest thing I've read in this thread, already chock full of stupid things.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

lklawson said:


> That has got to be the single stupidest thing I've read in this thread, already chock full of stupid things.


I wpuld suggest you find another hobby then


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## lklawson (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, I am just amazed how many here will reject a difficult student.


No one is requiring instructors to teach.  There's no law that says they've got to guarantee learning for everyone who even bothers to show up and call themselves a "student" (never mind those who won't even do that).  Not everyone is willing to learn.  Not everyone is capable of learning the needed lessons.  I'd mention that old "empty your cup" hackneyed saw, but I don't think you'd understand.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

I have seen many instructors make the same excuses for their own faults and incapability.


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## lklawson (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I wpuld suggest you find another hobby then


I already have.  I decided to start a collection.  "Stupid things I saw 'Guthrie' write."  But it's too easy; I think I'll get bored with it soon.


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## lklawson (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I have seen many instructors make the same excuses for their own faults and incapability.


Sure you have.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

They are all willing to learn, if they show up, its usually a bad instructor or instruction that causes them to leave.


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I wpuld suggest you find another hobby then



  You do realize that presenting dissenting opinions with no actual reasoning to back them up is trolling right? Despite the fact that Trump has made an entire presidential campaign based upon it, it's still trolling.


----------



## Juany118 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Everyone is tteachable it is, and always is the teachers fault.



I would disagree on this part.  One might argue "if the person picks the right art for them" and the right teacher (based on method/attitude) it's the teachers fault.  By this I mean the following.

1. So people aren't comfortable being REALLY close to someone else.  As such a grappling art like Jujutsu will never really work for them regardless of what the teacher does unless they are willing to push past their issue.  This can be even further exaggerated.  I know some people who LOVE TKD because they feel they can stay at kicking range, they simply just don't want to get in close and when they try to learn arts with a lot of hand work they just don't do as well.

2. Some arts are too scientific (for lack of a better term).  As an example WC.  For a _bong _or a _tan _to really work the arms need to be held at fairly precise angles, it's not just a matter of sticking your arm out there.  It takes a fair amount of work just to get that down and some people get frustrated and give up.

3. Some teachers teach with a fitness/sport mindset, some with demonstration, some with self defense, others with full on combatives in mind.  If you are looking for combatives then the one teaching for demonstrations or sport/point sparring, is likely not going to work for you.

It is after these considerations that the quality of the teacher becomes relevant.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

lklawson said:


> I already have.  I decided to start a collection.  "Stupid things I saw 'Guthrie' write."  But it's too easy; I think I'll get bored with it soon.


Another tactic of a poor excuse of an instructor. Please tell me you are not one. Nothing more pathetic than an internet **** talker.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> I would disagree on this part.  One might argue "if the person picks the right art for them" and the right teacher (based on method/attitude) it's the teachers fault.  By this I mean the following.
> 
> 1. So people aren't comfortable being REALLY close to someone else.  As such a grappling art like Jujutsu will never really work for them regardless of what the teacher does unless they are willing to push past their issue.  This can be even further exaggerated.  I know some people who LOVE TKD because they feel they can stay at kicking range, they simply just don't want to get in close and when they try to learn arts with a lot of hand work they just don't do as well.
> 
> ...


Exactly and that is why perspective students should ask questions, until they find the right answer and the right system. Regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, I am just amazed how many here will reject a difficult student.


Im amazed someone can be so blind. Are you secretly this guys uncle or something because you're just blindly defending him. Look at his first ever posts here he asks a question and everyone gives him good advice even the second and thirds but when he starts saying things like oh wing chums because so and so or I saw on ip man he did this or I remember this one boxers are all arrogant bullies and boxing doesn't look cool on YouTube and they don't even block. He says he has good knowledge on the centre line theory, the guys arrogant and thinks he can teach himself. He's not a difficult because he's not a student at all he's not looking to learn he's ignored every single bit of advice everyone given him. He's no shown desire to turn off his computer and go to a school and even try 1 free class. If he was actually training it wouldn't be so bad but the guys just talking out his backside acting like he knows it all and he's rude to people who give him advice. I don't know why you're defending him it's obvious what this guy is he's either just a wannabe martial artist who's to lazy to train and likes to pretend he knows anything  or a troll


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> You do realize that presenting dissenting opinions with no actual reasoning to back them up is trolling right? Despite the fact that Trump has made an entire presidential campaign based upon it, it's still trolling.


Just because you can not comprehend the fact that when a student quits, that there is a good chance its because of the instruction, is not good reasoning?


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Im amazed someone can be so blind. Are you secretly this guys uncle or something because you're just blindly defending him. Look at his first ever posts here he asks a question and everyone gives him good advice even the second and thirds but when he starts saying things like oh wing chums because so and so or I saw on ip man he did this or I remember this one boxers are all arrogant bullies and boxing doesn't look cool on YouTube and they don't even block. He says he has good knowledge on the centre line theory, the guys arrogant and thinks he can teach himself. He's not a difficult because he's not a student at all he's not looking to learn he's ignored every single bit of advice everyone given him. He's no shown desire to turn off his computer and go to a school and even try 1 free class. If he was actually training it wouldn't be so bad but the guys just talking out his backside acting like he knows it all and he's rude to people who give him advice. I don't know why you're defending him it's obvious what this guy is he's either just a wannabe martial artist who's to lazy to train and likes to pretend he knows anything  or a troll


Oh I think he has hooked you folks, line and sinker, into showing that most of you lack any real knowledge concerning true combat applications. 

And he has shown that not all people who claim to be instructors, really are not even close.

Yes, I have analyzed the conversations and I see a guy asking questions and researching info about different arts. Then I see the angered responses from the drama groups, simply because he will disagree.

There are hundreds if not thousand of different arts and one should dig deeply into the subject in order to consider which is best for them

Thats what I see.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Sure you have.


You can bank on it


----------



## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Exactly and that is why perspective students should ask questions, until they find the right answer and the right system. Regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students.





Guthrie said:


> Just because you can not comprehend the fact that when a student quits, that there is a good chance its because of the instruction, is not good reasoning?



  Sorry, but now you're just preaching in ignorance. In the first quote, you preach self-centeredness and entitlement by stating "regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students". I have absolutely zero desire to attempt to teach anyone that is that self-centered or feels that entitled.

  Then, in the second quote, you state that I can't comprehend the fact that a student may quit because of the instruction? Besides the fact that the thread is discussing a couch potato that will never *be* a student, much less quit, I can comprehend quite well that it may be the fault of the instructor. What you, in your entitled world view can't seem to comprehend, is that I really don't care why they quit. It is not my responsibility to babysit my students.


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## Juany118 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Exactly and that is why perspective students should ask questions, until they find the right answer and the right system. Regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students.



Well initially you put it all on the teacher.  A student has to first pick the right art, then the right method then be willing to learn but this is not what your initial premise was.  I don't know if the initial premise was poorly explained or if you are actually contradicting yourself.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Oh I think he has hooked you folks, line and sinker, into showing that most of you lack any real knowledge concerning true combat applications.
> 
> And he has shown that not all people who claim to be instructors, really are not even close.
> 
> ...


Wow because people can't be bothered to answer some lazy kids questions they don't have knowledge seems you're just as arrogant to say that pretty much everyone on this board has no knowledge. Did you miss the bit where EVERYONE has tried to help him but most comments he just ignores and only replies to ones that aren't helpful. All he does is make excuses and I 100% guarantee he will never train.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Sorry, but now you're just preaching in ignorance. In the first quote, you preach self-centeredness and entitlement by stating "regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students". I have absolutely zero desire to attempt to teach anyone that is that self-centered or feels that entitled.
> 
> Then, in the second quote, you state that I can't comprehend the fact that a student may quit because of the instruction? Besides the fact that the thread is discussing a couch potato that will never *be* a student, much less quit, I can comprehend quite well that it may be the fault of the instructor. What you, in your entitled world view can't seem to comprehend, is that I really don't care why they quit. It is not my responsibility to babysit my students.


YesQUOT


pgsmith said:


> Sorry, but now you're just preaching in ignorance. In the first quote, you preach self-centeredness and entitlement by stating "regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students". I have absolutely zero desire to attempt to teach anyone that is that self-centered or feels that entitled.
> 
> Then, in the second quote, you state that I can't comprehend the fact that a student may quit because of the instruction? Besides the fact that the thread is discussing a couch potato that will never *be* a student, much less quit, I can comprehend quite well that it may be the fault of the instructor. What you, in your entitled world view can't seem to comprehend, is that I really don't care why they quit. It is not my responsibility to babysit my students.


You left out the "perspective student "part of the first statement.

Perspective student

Instructors

Two different subjects


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> They are all willing to learn, if they show up, its usually a bad instructor or instruction that causes them to leave.


That's the whole point he hasn't shown up he hasn't done anything except talk trash on this board whys that so difucult to understand if he wants the answers the best to do is watch a class and talk to the instructor face to face but nope that's never going to happen


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> YesQUOT
> 
> You left out the "perspective student "part of the first statement.
> 
> ...



  Now you're being deliberately obtuse, as well as misusing words. Perspective is what artists use when drawing three dimensionally. Sorry, I'm done listening to your poorly formed arguments and ridiculous ideas. I'm afraid your entitled attitude won't get you very far in life, but that's not my problem either.

  On the ignore list with you!


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Because he gets the exact same answers from all of you.

I am not defending him, training, is soley up to him. But, he does have a right to ask questions, and disagree with the answers until he finds what he is looking for. 

Not one instructor or student here has the right to deny him that.

My question is, why is it the same people who attack his threads. Why not ignore it and move on?

In my opinion...some people like drama.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Perspective student



If he were a prospective student, people would likely respond differently. But he's not. As for being a perspective student... that sounds more like a drawing or painting thing. Since I can barely draw a stick figure, I wouldn't feel qualified to have an opinion on that issue.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Now you're being deliberately obtuse, as well as misusing words. Perspective is what artists use when drawing three dimensionally. Sorry, I'm done listening to your poorly formed arguments and ridiculous ideas. I'm afraid your entitled attitude won't get you very far in life, but that's not my problem either.
> 
> On the ignore list with you!


Its about time.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Because he gets the exact same answers from all of you.



Probably because "get off your butt and go train" is a really good answer. That is why so many people recommend it.



Guthrie said:


> In my opinion...some people like drama.



I doubt you will understand why I find this statement so ironically funny.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Auto correct mistakes are hard for some folks to understand.


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> As an instructor, I believ
> be
> Everyone is tteachable it is, and always is the teachers fault.



No. Not everyone is teachable. You have to be willing to be taught to be teachable. Not everyone is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Probably because "get off your butt and go train" is a really good answer. That is why so many people recommend it.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt you will understand why I find this statement so ironically funny.


Its lousey advice in my opinion. When one knows northing about the arts.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Because he gets the exact same answers from all of you.
> 
> I am not defending him, training, is soley up to him. But, he does have a right to ask questions, and disagree with the answers until he finds what he is looking for.
> 
> ...


Says the guy who came on here and basically said everyone has no knowledge apart from you hmm yeah makes sense and because people are trying to help him we're saying go train that's all he can do he can post all fhe YouTube videos he wants but he'll learn absolutely 0 until he gets off his backside and go train, the amount of time he's been on this board he could've visited hundreds of schools and tried them out but nope he's still watching ip man vs 10 black belts on YouTube


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Its lousey advice in my opinion. When one knows northing about the arts.


But according to him he does know a lot that's the whole problem


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> No. Not everyone is teachable. You have to be willing to be taught to be teachable. Not everyone is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, because if they ask questions, they do not want to be taught.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Says the guy who came on here and basically said everyone has no knowledge apart from you hmm yeah makes sense and because people are trying to help him we're saying go train that's all he can do he can post all fhe YouTube videos he wants but he'll learn absolutely 0 until he gets off his backside and go train, the amount of time he's been on this board he could've visited hundreds of schools and tried them out but nope he's still watching ip man vs 10 black belts on YouTube


Never said that....just those who keep responding to him.


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, I am just amazed how many here will reject a difficult student.



I feel kind of the same way. I see this guy as being afraid of getting hit. Afraid of pain. I see fear. That's it. And I see a lot of people who don't have patience for different learning styles. Not everyone is a tough guy who can handle the idea of pain. Hell...I see fear of something new.

Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Probably because "get off your butt and go train" is a really good answer. That is why so many people recommend it.
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt you will understand why I find this statement so ironically funny.


Not really, you seem to be on the board.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Never said that....just those who keep responding to him.


And you know that all these people have no knowledge? Looks like you're even more full of your own **** than the op


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> I feel kind of the same way. I see this guy as being afraid of getting hit. Afraid of pain. I see fear. That's it. And I see a lot of people who don't have patience for different learning styles. Not everyone is a tough guy who can handle the idea of pain. Hell...I see fear of something new.
> 
> Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.
> 
> ...


No one said anything about pain no ones telling him to go spar the top mma fighters in his area everyone was patient at first but then he floods the board with the same questions then ignored everyone's answers


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> As an instructor, I believ
> be
> Everyone is tteachable it is, and always is the teachers fault.


Not at all true. A student is responsible for their learning. A student's attitude cannot be changed by the instructor, only by the student. We are not gods.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> And you know that all these people have no knowledge? Looks like you're even more full of your own **** than the op


 Opinions vary son.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Really, I am just amazed how many here will reject a difficult student.


There's a difference between a "difficult student" and someone who is not willing to learn. I'm more than willing to help someone who is struggling. Those who refuse to struggle, I refuse to waste my time on, since they're not going to get any benefit without their own effort.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Not at all true. A student is responsible for their learning. A student's attitude cannot be changed by the instructor, only by the student. We are not gods.


Yep the people who go around saying oh it's my instructors fault I'm no good are just people looking for excuses the instructor sees you for maybe 2 hours a week everyone needs to practice on their own to get any good of course an instructor is needed but if you don't train on your own out the class there's pretty much no point


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Opinions vary son.


Yeah well yours is an arrogant one you don't know anyone on this board yet you seem to think you know everything about people. It's pretty funny you're saying the people who actually train have no knowledge yet you're praising the guy who refuses to train as being a good inquisitive student


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Not at all true. A student is responsible for their learning. A student's attitude cannot be changed by the instructor, only by the student. We are not gods.


I would disagree, how can a person even call themselves a teacher, if they do not feel responsible, at least partially, for their students progression thru the art.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah well yours is an arrogant one you don't know anyone on this board yet you seem to think you know everything about people


Nope not a bit, but I do know that as instructors go, they shouldnt give up on anyone.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> They are all willing to learn, if they show up, its usually a bad instructor or instruction that causes them to leave.


Firstly, this guy is not willing to show up, so you've just changed your stance on him.

Secondly, there are people who show up to show off or to be able to brag about what they are doing. Those folks are not there to learn. They get a chance, but their attitude is detrimental to the learning of others and eventually presents a physical risk to others (because they often show off by over-doing a technique they don't understand). Before it reaches that point, it's the responsibility of the instructor to remove the problem.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Nope not a bit, but I do know that as instructors go, they shouldnt give up on anyone.


If the guy turned up to any of our gyms they wouldn't give up but no one on here is this guys instructor so they have 0 obligation to do anything for him they don't owe him anything


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Another tactic of a poor excuse of an instructor. Please tell me you are not one. Nothing more pathetic than an internet **** talker.


You know, for someone who claims to dislike drama, you spend a lot of your time making statements that appear to be designed to create it.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Firstly, this guy is not willing to show up, so you've just changed your stance on him.
> 
> Secondly, there are people who show up to show off or to be able to brag about what they are doing. Those folks are not there to learn. They get a chance, but their attitude is detrimental to the learning of others and eventually presents a physical risk to others (because they often show off by over-doing a technique they don't understand). Before it reaches that point, it's the responsibility of the instructor to remove the problem.



Yep seen those type I had a friend who came to my club and sat out and watched a session then next day went round telling everyone he does kickboxing...and never turned up again but kept on saying he did it


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

lklawson said:


> No one is requiring instructors to teach.  There's no law that says they've got to guarantee learning for everyone who even bothers to show up and call themselves a "student" (never mind those who won't even do that).  Not everyone is willing to learn.  Not everyone is capable of learning the needed lessons.  I'd mention that old "empty your cup" hackneyed saw, but I don't think you'd understand.



Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.

If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that. 

PS

I am not saying that I disagree or agree with you or the person to what you were talking. Just giving my two cents worth of fair and reasonable discussion in the name of honorable discourse. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.
> 
> If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.
> 
> ...


The whole point of this is the guy doesn't actually want to learn he likes watching his videos and pretending he knows what he's talking about and ignores everyone's advice that's why people can't be bothered. Tell me if you had a student who asked the same question every single lesson week after week would you still be as patient the hundredth time as you were the first that's what this guys doing


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Oh I think he has hooked you folks, line and sinker, into showing that most of you lack any real knowledge concerning true combat applications.
> 
> And he has shown that not all people who claim to be instructors, really are not even close.
> 
> ...


Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> You know, for someone who claims to dislike drama, you spend a lot of your time making statements that appear to be designed to create it.


In response to sarcastic comments only. But, I understand your point.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I would disagree, how can a person even call themselves a teacher, if they do not feel responsible, at least partially, for their students progression thru the art.


At what point did I claim an instructor has no responsibility? You, however, clearly claimed that the student has none. That's obviously and demonstrably false.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.


Sorry lot accidentally hit disagree while scrolling through on my iPad lol


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.
> 
> If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.
> 
> ...


I would agree, except that the instructor also has to consider the other students. If I have two students who take all my time, I'm depriving those who are working at it. I love to help people overcome their attitudes as much as anyone, but I have an obligation (yes, an ethical one) not to ignore the larger group.

On top of that, most instructors simply aren't trained on how to help attitude problems. Doing it the wrong way can sometimes be worse than asking them to leave - that's another ethical issue instructors have to deal with.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Your last claim makes it clear that you don't understand how variable a single art can be. Even if a prospective student researched arts for a century, he'd still have no idea about the school he's going to visit. I'm a JMA kinda guy, but that doesn't mean I can choose my school by looking at videos of JMA. An MMA gym down the street might actually be the best fit - people, techniques, and instructor - for me. I'll only know if I visit, observe a class or two, then (if all looks good to that point) step on the mats and see how it goes.


I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?

Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Sorry lot accidentally hit disagree while scrolling through on my iPad lol


And me with no "Disagree with your mis-clicked disagree" rating.


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## Tez3 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> And you know that all these people have no knowledge? Looks like you're even more full of your own **** than the op



Be respectful, this is the man who can grapple with vicious dogs and make them tap out so they follow him anywhere...... ( he said so    )


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?
> 
> Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?


My point was that a student will never find the perfect art. Yeah, it would be a good thing for a student who has some knowledge to do some research in advance. A student with no knowledge, however, is unlikely to be able to do useful ressearch. He likely won't understand and recognize the difference between demonstration videos, sport sparring, and RBSD simulations, for one. And that single lack of background will make some videos cause him to bypass arts that are a good match, while embracing arts that don't fit him.

But, yes, he can search all he wants. He can ask questions all he wants, so long as he asks respectfully (just common courtesy, nothing different than I'd expect if someone asked a question at Target or Macy's) and actually makes use of the information he receives in response. If someone doesn't use the information they get in response, it's unlikely they'll do any differently when they start taking classes.


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## pgsmith (Aug 18, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> I feel kind of the same way. I see this guy as being afraid of getting hit. Afraid of pain. I see fear. That's it. And I see a lot of people who don't have patience for different learning styles. Not everyone is a tough guy who can handle the idea of pain. Hell...I see fear of something new.



  That may be entirely true. However, it is *not* my responsibility as an instructor to nurture his feelings and persuade him to train in the martial arts. In fact, I would much prefer that he stay away and give that opportunity to other students that are eager to train. As Gerry says, if one person is taking up an inordinate amount of my very limited teaching time, then I am shorting the other students that are eager to learn.



stonewall1350 said:


> Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.



  That is a time-worn cliché used by those who are not advanced enough in any art to be expected to teach themselves.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Its lousey advice in my opinion. When one knows northing about the arts.


Do you expect someone with no understanding of an art to be able to quickly gain that understanding by watching videos and reading books? The fastest way to gain understanding is by training. The second fastest is by observing and asking questions of the people you're observing, then learning from the answers. The second makes a great lead-in to the first. He may not find a right fit the first time, but what he learns in that attempt will better inform him for his next attempt.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I do understand exactly how variable an art can be. But, a person has the right to seek until their hearts their hearts desire. It shouldnt matter how long it takes and when he finds one he likes, he will go. But until HE is ready, what really is the harm?
> 
> Are people just upset because he criticizes their specific art, or is it arrogance?


Nope arrogance seems to be your problem


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

He 
[QUOE="gpseymour, post: 1781120, member: 27826"]My point was that a student will never find the perfect art. Yeah, it would be a good thing for a student who has some knowledge to do some research in advance. A student with no knowledge, however, is unlikely to be able to do useful ressearch. He likely won't understand and recognize the difference between demonstration videos, sport sparring, and RBSD simulations, for one. And that single lack of background will make some videos cause him to bypass arts that are a good match, while embracing arts that don't fit him.

But, yes, he can search all he wants. He can ask questions all he wants, so long as he asks respectfully (just common courtesy, nothing different than I'd expect if someone asked a question at Target or Macy's) and actually makes use of the information he receives in response. If someone doesn't use the information they get in response, it's unlikely they'll do any differently when they start taking classes.[/QUOTE]
He could find the perfect art for him and I believe he will. I dont believe he will find it through asking questions about arts on MT.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Nope arrogance seems to be your problem


Yes, you seem to say that when someone disagrees with you.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Yes, you seem to say that when someone disagrees with you.


No just when the persons acting like an arrogant jerk


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Do you expect someone with no understanding of an art to be able to quickly gain that understanding by watching videos and reading books? The fastest way to gain understanding is by training. The second fastest is by observing and asking questions of the people you're observing, then learning from the answers. The second makes a great lead-in to the first. He may not find a right fit the first time, but what he learns in that attempt will better inform him for his next attempt.


No, I do not think that. What I do think and have stated before, a person should research a subject extensively before they purchase that subject and I dont think he is doing anything harmful by asking questions, about a system.

I really dont see the problem, other than some people finding offense when he critiques their system.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No just when the persons acting like an arrogant jerk


Good for you kiddo....
Now that was arrogance.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> No, I do not think that. What I do think and have stated before, a person should research a subject extensively before they purchase that subject and I dont think he is doing anything harmful by asking questions, about a system.
> 
> I really dont see the problem, other than some people finding offense when he critiques their system.


Yeah when a guy criticises /every/ martial art without ever doing any of them and even basing his opinion on what he's seen in movies then yeah people aren't going to take him seriously


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Good for you kiddo....
> Now that was arrogance.


Okay and you saying everyone here apart from you has no knowledge and are all terrible instructors isn't arrogant yeah okay whatever you say


----------



## Tez3 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Yes, you seem to say that when someone disagrees with you.



No he doesn't, he disagrees with me a lot and hasn't called me arrogant.


I think the problem is you haven't seen the sheer volume of threads the OP has started, many of them are actually disrespectful because he quite often says such and such a style is rubbish....these opinions are based on either fictional films or internet videos, he criticises instructors for charging training fees and for going on holiday. He criticises extensively Chinese martial arts, according to him they can't do this, that or the other, he complains of maladies that he would be better seeing a doctor about. He emails instructors with lists of demands and questions that elicits short replies that aren't to his liking. He has had good advice that he replies to by saying the style recommended is a fraud just out for the money. He has posted constantly for months now about his problems with styles, nothing matches what he wants. People have been far more patient, far more considerate than he actually deserves at this point.  
Of course bumping your gums about how good you are is on the other end of trolling to the OP, just as bad of course but far less amusing.


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Okay and you saying everyone here apart from you has no knowledge and are all terrible instructors isn't arrogant yeah okay whatever you say


Only those instructors, who believe that the students exist, to make their lives easier. 
I have zero respect for those type of instructors. If you disagree with that, its your right. But, It doesnt make me arrogant.

Teachers are there to help improve the life of students. Regardless of what is being taught. Its not about submitting to an authority without question. The objective of the student is to ask the tough questions and keep the teacher on his toes.


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## Tez3 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Only those instructors, who believe that the students exist, to make their lives easier.



I've never met one of them, even the worst instructors don't think students are there to make their lives easier lol.


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> No he doesn't, he disagrees with me a lot and hasn't called me arrogant.
> 
> 
> I think the problem is you haven't seen the sheer volume of threads the OP has started, many of them are actually disrespectful because he quite often says such and such a style is rubbish....these opinions are based on either fictional films or internet videos, he criticises instructors for charging training fees and for going on holiday. He criticises extensively Chinese martial arts, according to him they can't do this, that or the other, he complains of maladies that he would be better seeing a doctor about. He emails instructors with lists of demands and questions that elicits short replies that aren't to his liking. He has had good advice that he replies to by saying the style recommended is a fraud just out for the money. He has posted constantly for months now about his problems with styles, nothing matches what he wants. People have been far more patient, far more considerate than he actually deserves at this point.
> Of course bumping your gums about how good you are is on the other end of trolling to the OP, just as bad of course but far less amusing.


I would agree, but he was attacked right from the get go, in his first post.

The same thing happened to me. 
If you do not know about the style, why even comment?


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Only those instructors, who believe that the students exist, to make their lives easier.
> I have zero respect for those type of instructors. If you disagree with that, its your right. But, It doesnt make me arrogant.
> 
> Teachers are there to help improve the life of students. Regardless of what is being taught. Its not about submitting to an authority without question. The objective of the student is to ask the tough questions and keep the teacher on his toes.


Jesus you really aren't getting it are you this guy is NOT A STUDENT he has no intention to be a student he has made no effort to start a martial art apart from watching videos that's why no one is bothering to try and help anymore


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I've never met one of them, even the worst instructors don't think students are there to make their lives easier lol.


But it would appear that those here, want the easy teachable students. That is what I commented on and that was towards one guy who already ignored me.

But still, I will never understand why asking questions on MT are treated with such hostility and always by the exact same group of people.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I would agree, but he was attacked right from the get go, in his first post.
> 
> The same thing happened to me.
> If you do not know about the style, why even comment?


Right this is all getting boring now tell you what if you're such an amazing instructor as your claiming to be you message him you let him ask you all his stupid questions then let's see if you're good enough to give him all his answers then he'll go and train but I guarantee he will not be training ever


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Jesus you really aren't getting it are you this guy is NOT A STUDENT he has no intention to be a student he has made no effort to start a martial art apart from watching videos that's why no one is bothering to try and help anymore


In your opinion...just because you jumped on the first thing, doesnt mean everyone goes that route.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> But it would appear that those here, want the easy teachable students. That is what I commented on and that was towards one guy who already ignored me.
> 
> But still, I will never understand why asking questions on MT are treated with such hostility and always by the exact same group of people.


My god you seem to be just as incapable of listening as the op. it's not about him asking questions he asks the same questions time after time after time and then he answers his own question with his own opinion and is rude and dismissive to other people's opinion....actually I can see why you have a soft spot for him very similar to you it seems


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Right this is all getting boring now tell you what if you're such an amazing instructor as your claiming to be you message him you let him ask you all his stupid questions then let's see if you're good enough to give him all his answers then he'll go and train but I guarantee he will not be training ever[/QUOTE
> I never once claimed to be an amazing instructor. I just dont believe its always the students fault. I disagree with your line of thinking and really, its ok when someone disagrees with you.
> 
> It was others and you who resorted to personal put downs(as always). Do you folks ever wonder why, it is always the same group that does most of the commenting and arguing. That seem to be the main commentors in a majority of the threads. Why it is when there is no fresh blood, you turn on eachother.
> ...


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> My god you seem to be just as incapable of listening as the op. it's not about him asking questions he asks the same questions time after time after time and then he answers his own question with his own opinion and is rude and dismissive to other people's opinion....actually I can see why you have a soft spot for him very similar to you it seems





Kickboxer101 said:


> My god you seem to be just as incapable of listening as the op. it's not about him asking questions he asks the same questions time after time after time and then he answers his own question with his own opinion and is rude and dismissive to other people's opinion....actually I can see why you have a soft spot for him very similar to you it seems


No not a bit, I just notice the same people attacking everyone that disagrees with them. And, these same people use personal attacks when their knowledge is questioned.

It can be seen in damn near every thread. It doesnt matter what the subject is. Its just attack and in my experience...these types of people have led sheltered lives.

You folks have a great day.


----------



## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> The whole point of this is the guy doesn't actually want to learn he likes watching his videos and pretending he knows what he's talking about and ignores everyone's advice that's why people can't be bothered. Tell me if you had a student who asked the same question every single lesson week after week would you still be as patient the hundredth time as you were the first that's what this guys doing



Well...I was a teacher...and it depends on the student. Some students just don't understand a concept because they don't understand how you teach. Other students don't care about what you do, and other students just need a different perspective and you don't have the ability to provide it. Maybe because you have a different approach or maybe because you have a fundamental difference in the art and how the student sees the art. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I would agree, except that the instructor also has to consider the other students. If I have two students who take all my time, I'm depriving those who are working at it. I love to help people overcome their attitudes as much as anyone, but I have an obligation (yes, an ethical one) not to ignore the larger group.
> 
> On top of that, most instructors simply aren't trained on how to help attitude problems. Doing it the wrong way can sometimes be worse than asking them to leave - that's another ethical issue instructors have to deal with.



Well said in that last bit especially. I had a hard time with attitude adjustment as a teacher. It took me physically breaking up a fight though to gain respect from my only problem student though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Juany118 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Its lousey advice in my opinion. When one knows northing about the arts.




The only way you learn is by asking openly genuine questions.  If you read his posts the questions he asks are typically directly or indirectly insulting to the art of the instructor teaches either via comparison "is your art really better than this other art" or "I have watched videos of your art and it looks like it is ineffective is this true?". Finally he apparently wants a school that gives high quality training with little to no financial investment.

Next in the end the only way one moves from ignorance to learning is to first honestly analyze oneself.  Second one has to ask questions based on THIS, not YouTube videos.  Finally one has to get get off their butt, go to a school and try it.  He has done none of the above, what he has done is asked the people on this forum to hand him some miraculous answer as to "this is the ultimate art for you." No one can answer this question for him but himself and it requires following the steps I noted above.


----------



## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 18, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> The only way you learn is by asking openly genuine questions.  If you read his posts the questions he asks are typically directly or indirectly insulting to the art of the instructor teaches either via comparison "is your art really better than this other art" or "I have watched videos of your art and it looks like it is ineffective is this true?". Finally he apparently wants a school that gives high quality training with little to no financial investment.
> 
> Next in the end the only way one moves from ignorance to learning is to first honestly analyze oneself.  Second one has to ask questions based on THIS, not YouTube videos.  Finally one has to get get off their butt, go to a school and try it.  He has done none of the above, what he has done is asked the people on this forum to hand him some miraculous answer as to "this is the ultimate art for you." No one can answer this question for him but himself and it requires following the steps I noted above.


I have and a majority of the time, those who answer, regardless of if its him or not, iisa sarcastic answer. 

No I believe, after several months of observation, that you have about 5-6 regulars, that attack anyone who disagrees with the popular opinion. 

That is what I have observed. Folks running people off.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Only those instructors, who believe that the students exist, to make their lives easier.
> I have zero respect for those type of instructors. If you disagree with that, its your right. But, It doesnt make me arrogant.
> 
> Teachers are there to help improve the life of students. Regardless of what is being taught. Its not about submitting to an authority without question. The objective of the student is to ask the tough questions and keep the teacher on his toes.


Quite literally nothing anyone has said even slightly implied anything about submitting to authority, with or without question. Tough questions are fine - one of my best students is actually someone who questions nearly everything I teach. Disrespectful questions asked out of pure ignorance with an arrogant attitude of assumed knowledge are not.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I would agree, but he was attacked right from the get go, in his first post.
> 
> The same thing happened to me.
> If you do not know about the style, why even comment?


You need to review your facts. His first post did not receive an attack.


----------



## Juany118 (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I have and a majority of the time, those who answer, regardless of if its him or not, iisa sarcastic answer.
> 
> No I believe, after several months of observation, that you have about 5-6 regulars, that attack anyone who disagrees with the popular opinion.
> 
> That is what I have observed. Folks running people off.



Because those 5-6 people once tried giving honest advice and then the questions never stopped.  It honestly reads like he is looking for an excuse not to train.  Eventually people who give honest and informed advice are going to get tired of what amounts to a merry go round of questions and criticism of things he hasn't even bothered trying.


----------



## drop bear (Aug 18, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> I have and a majority of the time, those who answer, regardless of if its him or not, iisa sarcastic answer.
> 
> No I believe, after several months of observation, that you have about 5-6 regulars, that attack anyone who disagrees with the popular opinion.
> 
> That is what I have observed. Folks running people off.



The mean girls? 

The worst part is they will run off anyone who does not want to stand and trade. 

And all you will be left with is me.


----------



## stonewall1350 (Aug 18, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> That may be entirely true. However, it is *not* my responsibility as an instructor to nurture his feelings and persuade him to train in the martial arts. In fact, I would much prefer that he stay away and give that opportunity to other students that are eager to train. As Gerry says, if one person is taking up an inordinate amount of my very limited teaching time, then I am shorting the other students that are eager to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> That is a time-worn cliché used by those who are not advanced enough in any art to be expected to teach themselves.



It may be a time work cliche, but it is true. Not everyone is a good teacher. Some people are just too impatient and expect everyone to follow exactly what they do every time, and then write the people off who can't do just that. They believe it is "their way" or the "highway" and don't realize that there are a variety of methods to teach and that they need to adapt their own approach and it will solve 99% of their communication problems. And in reality...that is what a bad teacher is: a bad communicator. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> They are all willing to learn, if they show up, its usually a bad instructor or instruction that causes them to leave.


You know, when I wrote that your earlier statement was the stupidest I'd seen yet in this thread, it wasn't to challenge you to greater efforts of stupid statements but, rather, to encourage you away from stupid statements.

Sadly...


----------



## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Another tactic of a poor excuse of an instructor. Please tell me you are not one. Nothing more pathetic than an internet **** talker.


Dang, my new collection is getting full quick.  There's just no challenge in it.  And, much like your crazy aunt's collection of salt and pepper shakers, no one else wants them.


----------



## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Because he gets the exact same answers from all of you.


Detectives might call that a "clew."


----------



## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.


Another idiotic statement.


----------



## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Nobody is entitled to your knowledge. But if you want to call yourself an instructor, you have to actually be an instructor. That means recognizing that difficult students are just that. And sometimes they are the ones who need your instruction the most. Being a hard *** won't make that any easier either.
> 
> If you call yourself an instructor you have an ethical obligation to actually be a teacher. If you don't care about ethics, fine. You have no legal obligation to be ethical. As for the difficult student that we are discussing right now, as I said to the other poster I think it is about fear. I think there's a psychological block. And I understand that not everybody is capable of handling that.
> 
> ...


The whole "difficult student" thing is a deliberate distraction.  The poster made the patently stupid claim that every "student" wants to learn and that any "student" who doesn't learn is the result of bad instruction.  The claims aren't about a "difficult student," the claims are, well, frankly, uninformed.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Aug 19, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> It may be a time work cliche, but it is true.


No, it isn't.  "Those who can, do.  Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 19, 2016)

lklawson said:


> No, it isn't.  "Those who can, do.  Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.


Agreed. For instance, I recall Drop Bear posting that his coach/instructor is a champion fighter (MMA, I think). Someone who can do, and teaches.

I've also seen plenty of people who do neither.

There are also those whose skill is developing others' talents. The great golf coaches would be among those. Dave Pelz never has been as good at the game as the pros he coaches.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Aug 19, 2016)

lklawson said:


> No, it isn't.  "Those who can, do.  Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.


yep complete rubbish my coach has multiple wins such as
1st place at the TYGA Karate & Kickboxing World Championships, Gold two years running at the PKA National Tournament, first place at the CIMAC Superleague Open Tournament, WAKO Full Contact British Title 2013, Silver in the Austrian Classics World Cup Tournament 2013 in Full Contact and most recentely Silver medal in the WKA K1 British Open 2015. He is also a member of the Great Britain kickboxing squad

he's also obviously a good coach as a number of his students have won number of fights and medals and titles so yeah absolute rubbish sentence


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## pgsmith (Aug 19, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> It may be a time work cliche, but it is true. Not everyone is a good teacher. Some people are just too impatient and expect everyone to follow exactly what they do every time, and then write the people off who can't do just that. They believe it is "their way" or the "highway" and don't realize that there are a variety of methods to teach and that they need to adapt their own approach and it will solve 99% of their communication problems. And in reality...that is what a bad teacher is: a bad communicator.



  But there is a vast amount of difference between a teacher at a public (or private) school who's job is to pass knowledge on to their students, and a martial arts instructor who already has another job during the day. The vast majority of martial arts instructors contribute their very limited teaching time to passing on their knowledge to a limited number of hard-working deshi. When I am at the dojo, it really is "my way or the highway", and I really don't care to adapt my approach in the slightest. It doesn't make me a bad teacher, it means that I am passing on the school's knowledge in the same manner that it was passed to me, as I am expected to do. Since the school has been passed down this way since it was first formed in 1693, it's pretty difficult to argue with their methodology.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 19, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> But there is a vast amount of difference between a teacher at a public (or private) school who's job is to pass knowledge on to their students, and a martial arts instructor who already has another job during the day. The vast majority of martial arts instructors contribute their very limited teaching time to passing on their knowledge to a limited number of hard-working deshi. When I am at the dojo, it really is "my way or the highway", and I really don't care to adapt my approach in the slightest. It doesn't make me a bad teacher, it means that I am passing on the school's knowledge in the same manner that it was passed to me, as I am expected to do. Since the school has been passed down this way since it was first formed in 1693, it's pretty difficult to argue with their methodology.



For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 19, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.


For some. As I understand it, that's more common in the US than in Europe.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 19, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> For some martial arts instructors, being a martial arts instructor is their full time job.


Yeah but they're still giving up their time to do it and in the case of the op he's emailing the instructor so he's talking to him outside his working hours and basically criticising him saying he knows more than him why should he waste his free time he could be spending with his wife and kids replying to some guy who will never turn up and is obviously already set in their own opinion, if the guy turns up at his school then yes he should answer all questions because it's in his working hours. Imagine if you were off work and your boss or a client kept bothering you with different problems you'd most likely so go away I'm not working now I'll deal with it when I'm at work. Same for martial art instructors, maybe for some it's their job but it's not their whole life either.


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## drop bear (Aug 19, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. For instance, I recall Drop Bear posting that his coach/instructor is a champion fighter (MMA, I think). Someone who can do, and teaches.
> 
> I've also seen plenty of people who do neither.
> 
> There are also those whose skill is developing others' talents. The great golf coaches would be among those. Dave Pelz never has been as good at the game as the pros he coaches.



And is a high school teacher as well.
No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

Otherwise Guthrie is right about the tendency to dogpile.


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## Tez3 (Aug 19, 2016)

I know a few who can 'do' very well but can't instruct or coach to save their lives. Like a lot of things it's down to the individual.


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This is one of the oldest, and completely wrong, tropes I have ever seen.  The teacher must be capable, or have been capable of performing the tasks quite well, otherwise they would be, quite simply, incapable of teaching.

The difference between the "teacher" and the "doer" is that the teacher has an additional talent, the ability to properly pass on their knowledge and experience to others.  The main source for the line is Shaw's "Man and Superman." The line itself being associated, in the context of the play, with libertine Anarchist Revolutionaries, the source inside the play is referred to as _Maxims for Revolutionists.
_
It's essentially a pretentious strawman of self validation for the young "Revolutionary" to simply dismiss the criticism of their beliefs by their elders.


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

Guthrie said:


> Exactly and that is why perspective students should ask questions, until they find the right answer and the right system. Regardless of whether or not it offends instructors or students.


Oh forgot.  You can ask questions, even "hard" ones, without insulting people.  Here's an example...  First what I could have asked while I hunted for my current school but didn't because I have something called tact.

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience.  I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense"

I have watched videos and read forums where people say WC has no real practical use, that it is simply for people with no interest in "real fighting and that both WC and Kali training drills are useless in terms of learning real world fight dynamics.  Is this true?"

Or I can just say...

"Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience.  I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense" "

The fact I asked about combatives and being street practical as well etc asks the questions in the 2nd paragraph as well.  I get my answers and don't insult the receiver.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 20, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Oh forgot.  You can ask questions, even "hard" ones, without insulting people.  Here's an example...  First what I could have asked while I hunted for my current school but didn't because I have something called tact.
> 
> "Hi, I am a LEO with over 18 years of experience.  I am looking to study new martial arts to not only broaden my experience but that, in and of themselves have practical application to my career and are also taught in a manner that is "combative" vs sport or self defense in nature as I must regrettably at times be on "offense"
> 
> ...


On a side note, I think I now know what you mean by "combatives". You're talking about it including first-strike use, rather than always waiting for the attack - what you referred to as being "on offense". Am I closer?


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## Juany118 (Aug 20, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> On a side note, I think I now know what you mean by "combatives". You're talking about it including first-strike use, rather than always waiting for the attack - what you referred to as being "on offense". Am I closer?



Yes, that is exactly it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 20, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Yes, that is exactly it.


That makes sense. Like most self-defense instructors, I do teach this, but it's sort of a sideline, for exactly the reasons you implied. That's a good point of the necessary difference between civilian and LEO training.


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## drop bear (Aug 21, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That makes sense. Like most self-defense instructors, I do teach this, but it's sort of a sideline, for exactly the reasons you implied. That's a good point of the necessary difference between civilian and LEO training.



Wait.  What? 

Wouldn't you just teach both and give them the option?

Attacking defending and countering should be pretty universal tools.


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## Headhunter (Aug 26, 2016)

If you said this to me I'd get you down to my gym and ask you to spar with me and show me my stuff doesn't work. You'd find out very quickly if it does or doesn't. Actions speak louder than words


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 26, 2016)

lklawson said:


> No, it isn't.  "Those who can, do.  Those who cannot, teach." is an absolutely false statement.



I agree that is fortunately why I am not saying that. I am saying that the expression goes both ways. The idea behind the cliché as that one is considerably easier than the other. That is complete garbage. By stating both the original cliché and then the mirror statement to said cliché I am stating that both are difficult. Both require a certain degree of skills. They are not mutually exclusive nor does one grow with the other. 

I have seen some excellent martial artist who are terrible teachers, and I have seen the exact opposite as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stonewall1350 (Aug 26, 2016)

lklawson said:


> The whole "difficult student" thing is a deliberate distraction.  The poster made the patently stupid claim that every "student" wants to learn and that any "student" who doesn't learn is the result of bad instruction.  The claims aren't about a "difficult student," the claims are, well, frankly, uninformed.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



Every student does want to learn. that is why they show up.  Initially. They may not understand what is required of them. It is the job of the instructor to communicate that. After that it is on the student. I'm not in full disagreement with you nor am I in complete agreement I just simply don't like blanket statements. I have a zero tolerance policy for zero-tolerance policies 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Every student does want to learn. that is why they show up.  Initially. They may not understand what is required of them. It is the job of the instructor to communicate that. After that it is on the student. I'm not in full disagreement with you nor am I in complete agreement I just simply don't like blanket statements. I have a zero tolerance policy for zero-tolerance policies
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually, that's not at all why some folks show up. Here's one example: Some show up merely to be able to say they are taking martials arts, and really don't have any interest in learning it. These are easy to spot because they don't progress and don't care that they don't progress. (I'm not talking about rank, rather about skill development.) They are happy to be able to make their claim, and come to class only so much as they feel is necessary to maintain the claim.

There are other types that show up with no real desire to learn (the validators, the demonstrators, the dominators, etc.). In a good school, none of them last long.


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## drop bear (Aug 26, 2016)

Headhunter said:


> If you said this to me I'd get you down to my gym and ask you to spar with me and show me my stuff doesn't work. You'd find out very quickly if it does or doesn't. Actions speak louder than words



Which is why people spar in the first place.  Because op is Correct. Everything does work in a demo.


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## AVI (Aug 27, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hi,
> I emailed a school which offers self defense and in my email I asked a few questions and
> described a few things which worry me, like for example that in demo videos techniques all
> work but that demo videos aren't very realistic and that I worry that you learn stuff which doesn't
> ...


See, its true that if you do not have the fighting spirit in you, you dont stand a chance to defend yourself.its not like a formula to solve mathematics.i have seen some fellow students who have learnt all techniques what i have, but fails to perform them in a fight.

And about the guy you have been talking to, I will warn you, there are many posers who just showoff and whose classes will teach you nothing but touch and run game.


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## kehcorpz (Aug 28, 2016)

This is discouraging.

How shall I get a fighting spirit? I'm an anxious person and I also overthink everything.

I'm even in an alert mode when I go to the supermarket. My pulse is always higher than usual when I'm outside of the house.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 28, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> This is discouraging.
> 
> How shall I get a fighting spirit? I'm an anxious person and I also overthink everything.
> 
> I'm even in an alert mode when I go to the supermarket. My pulse is always higher than usual when I'm outside of the house.


You get your lazy backside to a class and start learning so in that case no you'll never get one


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## ST1Doppelganger (Aug 28, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> This is discouraging.
> 
> How shall I get a fighting spirit? I'm an anxious person and I also overthink everything.
> 
> I'm even in an alert mode when I go to the supermarket. My pulse is always higher than usual when I'm outside of the house.


How about you get out there and look online and do intro courses at schools near you. Then you can pick the one you enjoy the best and feel is the best fit for you. 

Here's a tip play hardball when you call schools most will want you to come in to see the school in person then they will ask you to pay a small fee for an intro course. What you do is say your still researching dojos and am interested but have a few free intro lessons at other dojos that your going to do before spending money on any introductory lessons or Classes. Most schools will waive the intro fee or reduce the cost. 

Just get out there and start trying intro courses most if the time their free or inexpensive. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## Tez3 (Aug 28, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You get your lazy backside to a class and start learning so in that case no you'll never get one



As I usually do I clicked on to the new posts and there's is half a dozen new threads started by the OP...again.
There is only one answer for the OP, please go and train or don't. One or the other but just stop with the questions, they aren't helping you and come across as trolling at this point. I'm getting the idea now that there is nothing wrong and all these posts and threads are just to satisfy some need for attention or worse just to wind people up.


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## lklawson (Aug 29, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> This is discouraging.
> 
> How shall I get a fighting spirit? I'm an anxious person and I also overthink everything.
> 
> I'm even in an alert mode when I go to the supermarket. My pulse is always higher than usual when I'm outside of the house.


I am becoming increasingly convinced that you are not, umm... "pure of heart" in posting motives.


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## lklawson (Aug 29, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> ...come across as trolling at this point. I'm getting the idea now that there is nothing wrong and all these posts and threads are just to satisfy some need for attention or worse just to wind people up.


Yeah.  I'm getting that too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Aug 29, 2016)

stonewall1350 said:


> Every student does want to learn. that is why they show up.  Initially.


Nope.  Not "every student."  Most of them, sure.  But there's some who want to show off.  There's some who want to claim they have/are training martial arts.  There are some who want to challenge the instructor.

Even charitably, there are some who don't show up to learn the art.  There are some who show up just to see what the art is all about or if it suits their needs.  They're not there to "learn" but to decided if they want to learn.  Heck, I recommend people do that.


----------



## Ironbear24 (Aug 29, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Maybe he just told me that he wouldn't want me cause he realized that I'm not fooled by techniques which suck. This is also possible.



Why are judging things that you have zero experience in? I and many others have told you before that is a stupid thing to do. Watching videos on youtube will not and does not give you any form of credibility to call something unrealistic or ineffective, you are lucky that the sensei did not just hang up on you or not respond to your email at all. 

As for me I would have handled it a little differently, I would have told you to come try it for yourself so you can then make a better judgement, but that is me and that sensei owes you nothing.


----------



## Ironbear24 (Aug 29, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> cause I found out that he likely sucks.



Who are you to say someone sucks if you don't even train? 

Do you understand that you don't even?


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 30, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Which is why people spar in the first place.  Because op is Correct. Everything does work in a demo.



Sparring is one on of many tools to build fighting mechanics but this individual kehcoprz is nowhere near ready to be sparring. 

He would probably piss himself and **** his pants.


----------



## drop bear (Aug 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Sparring is one on of many tools to build fighting mechanics but this individual kehcoprz is nowhere near ready to be sparring.
> 
> He would probably piss himself and **** his pants.



So is his statement wrong?


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 30, 2016)

drop bear said:


> So is his statement wrong?



Everything about the op here is wrong.


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## drop bear (Aug 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Everything about the op here is wrong.



That is playing the man not the ball.


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 30, 2016)

drop bear said:


> That is playing the man not the ball.



You are correct, sparring light or heavy or whatever is the best way to develop fighting mechanics next to actually fighting .

There are few drills, mainly escapes ans counters where you can't easily do them in sparring (simply because they are a counter to a specific action) but other than that it is the next best thing to actually fighting full force.

I cant help but play the man because this is not the first time the op has called up a studio and essentially insulted the person, then acts appealed when they refuse to take him in.

Again he has no experience, he doesn't see the value of demonstration or sparring or anything. Demonstrations are often to well, advertise a technique and show the basics step by step. There are also sparring demos where the goal is to draw people in to sign up,
This person looks at them and goes "oh the entire style must suck".

Rather than realize, oh it's a demo, it's meant to break down something step by step so you can do it full speed later on. If you cannot do it slow, how would you do it fast for reals?


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## drop bear (Aug 30, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> You are correct, sparring light or heavy or whatever is the best way to develop fighting mechanics next to actually fighting .
> 
> There are few drills, mainly escapes ans counters where you can't easily do them in sparring (simply because they are a counter to a specific action) but other than that it is the next best thing to actually fighting full force.
> 
> I cant help but play the man because this is not the first time the op has called up a studio and essentially insulted the person, then acts appealed when they refuse to take him in.



Weird students are part of the fun of being in a school. We have had guys ring up offering to teach for money. Complain that pro mma fighters are only bjj blue belts. And a really strange one about a guys foot sise. (he has like a sise 14 foot but still)

And that is without an open mat. The guys who come in to spar with all their insane baggage is pretty common.

There is this idea.  There are no lies on the mat.  Everything else is just bag chat.


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 30, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Weird students are part of the fun of being in a school. We have had guys ring up offering to teach for money. Complain that pro mma fighters are only bjj blue belts. And a really strange one about a guys foot sise. (he has like a sise 14 foot but still)
> 
> And that is without an open mat. The guys who come in to spar with all their insane baggage is pretty common.
> 
> There is this idea.  There are no lies on the mat.  Everything else is just bag chat.



I agree with you here. Like I said if it were me as that instructor I would have told him to come in and id show him the stuff works. That's just however.


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## jks9199 (Aug 30, 2016)

Thread locked pending review.

jks9199
Admin


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