# Leung Ting story u better read



## lai_si (Jun 30, 2006)

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111304AM.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111346AM.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111426AM.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111513AM.jpg


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## monji112000 (Jun 30, 2006)

It matters little, because anyone who is very familiar with WC and the history should be able to see through all these people who claim to be &#8220;grandmasters&#8221;. Ip man named no successor, he and only he knows truly why. 

I have little respect for people who claim to be grandmasters. 

With a little common sense and some experience fighting, no one should be fooled by these &#8220;Grandmasters&#8221; who claim to know the &#8220;traditional&#8221;, secret, adapted.. TRUE style.:CTF:


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## JBrainard (Jun 30, 2006)

monji112000 said:
			
		

> With a little common sense and some experience fighting, no one should be fooled by these Grandmasters who claim to know the traditional, secret, adapted, TRUE style.


 
To expand on that, I once read something that was very interesting and very true: There is no TRUE transmition of ANY martial art, because every student who becomes a teacher learned their art in their own way and will teach it in their own way, no matter how hard they try to adhear to tradition.
Sucks, huh?


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## Flying Crane (Jun 30, 2006)

JBrainard said:
			
		

> Sucks, huh?


 
no, not really.


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## Carol (Jun 30, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> no, not really.


 
Agreed.  In music, as well as other arts, a truly great teacher can produce great students.  However, a truly great teacher rarely produces identical students.


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## JBrainard (Jun 30, 2006)

Hmmm... I guess that makes me a traditionalist (at least when it comes to martial arts :EG:.)


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## barnaby (Jun 30, 2006)

The arts were not created to produce cookie cut-outs of us all.  We must interpret it for ourselves, and teachers must encourage students to do the same or it's not art.


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## Miles (Jun 30, 2006)

barnaby said:
			
		

> The arts were not created to produce cookie cut-outs of us all. We must interpret it for ourselves, and teachers must encourage students to do the same or it's not art.



I agree that if we all were clones of our instructors, the arts would not grow.  More importantly, we would not grow as individuals...

Miles


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## Street Brawler (Jul 1, 2006)

I am a WT trainer. I would not say that WT is the only Wing Chun system that worth to train in , but I would tell you something. WT still proved to be one of the most effective fighting systems ever to be created. Many other styles masters and champoins joined the organization and started to train in. MAN, it's not the master that will help you, it's a gray floor tiled with white stripes. it is the STREET pal.


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## profesormental (Jul 1, 2006)

Greetings!

It has been my experience that when you become a Si Fu, you shouldn't use your Si Fu's name to make your own.

You are the Father-Teacher of your own family. You Honor your teacher abilities, since they are part reponsible for your bieng there...


You it is you, and you alone who walks the path. It is your sweat, effort, energy and perseverance that earns you your skill.

It should be by your hand that recognition and respect should be earned... not by another's name.

As an illustration, who was one of Einstein's teachers?

On another note, check out the Ving Tsun Athletic Association's Board of directors for the last few years... you'll notice a familiar name there...

I think the fences have been mended... or not.

I respect WT for their effective practitioners, and aggressive no nonsense approach. It is NOT like that in all WC schools.

I'm at my 3rd lineage training the system... al have different accents, as different people from different places that talk the same language have different accents.

All have insights that I appreciate and thank, since I, as the one walking my walk, have found the training from them all to be to my benefit,

and adding that to my personal effort, perseverance and diligent training and study, the result has benn me.

A Martial Skills Practitioner and Trainer. And I talk Wing Chun KUEN, among other languages...

Thus I let my fists do the talking.

Interesting history lesson.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

P.S. If you create and organization, and you are the Master of Masters in that organization... you should be the Grand Master... in THAT organization...

And that is ok. And legitimate.

Claiming some grand leadership over a individual groups of people, without affiliation to you, that is something different. LT is not my grandmaster. I do have several grandparent-teachers though...


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## Street Brawler (Jul 2, 2006)

profesormental said:
			
		

> Greetings!
> 
> It has been my experience that when you become a Si Fu, you shouldn't use your Si Fu's name to make your own.
> 
> ...


 
Well said and excellent. Thank you my friend 

Yesterday. I tried to search for something and that's what I found.
http://www.wingtsunwelt.com/artikel.php?id=887

This might be something useful.


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## Ric Flair (Jul 3, 2006)

JBrainard said:
			
		

> To expand on that, I once read something that was very interesting and very true: There is no TRUE transmition of ANY martial art, because every student who becomes a teacher learned their art in their own way and will teach it in their own way, no matter how hard they try to adhear to tradition.
> Sucks, huh?


 
IT is true.  Just like in learning how to cook a recipe.  
Say I am a head chef and set out to teach about 20 students the methods of cooking..... curry goat w/rice and peas.

Now I have my own preferred methods of cooking this dish so I show the students how to do it.  First I show the whole class the methods a few times and let them play around with it for a few days.  

During all this time I go around the kitchen carefully observing each student on an individual basis.  I notice their strengthes and weaknesses in cooking.  I also notice some don't like to add onions to the fryer, others don't add too much garlic, while 1 or 2 does rice and peas differently from the rest of the students.  

Noticing all this, I encourage each and every one of them to carry on with their interpretations of the desired dish they so want to hone.  I also add a few tips here and there to each student, just to help them out more.

Finally it is graduation day, the students have learned to cook curry goat and other dishes on their own!  Yes they had my teachings and assistance but, ultimately they made their own meals!  They added or took out certain ingredients that didn't fit well with their tastebuds or styles.  They modified certain aspects of utilizing the stove, mixing and blending ingredients, etc etc.

So my students depart from me and, during the course of the next 3 years I visit their restaurants and homes to taste their curry goats w/rice and peas.  Obviously the dish will have different textures and taste depending who I sample it from; but ONE THING is CLEAR.  It is the same dish regardless= Curry goat w/rice and peas!
Just everyone has their own way of cooking and preparing it!

IF you don't believe me, just go to 
6 different Caribbean restaurants in the next 3 weeks and try the curry goat dishes.  I am very sure you will taste many distinctions when comparing one place's interpretation to the next place 


I think this is how Wing chun is; same recipe taught to many students, many students make it their own recipes and change what fits and keep what fits.


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## Changhfy (Jul 9, 2006)

Thanks, alot Street Brawler. Ive heard this story about Leung Ting dozens of times. But never heard his side of the story so the link really helps.
good luck with training.




take care,
zai jian


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## Street Brawler (Jul 10, 2006)

Changhfy said:
			
		

> Thanks, alot Street Brawler. Ive heard this story about Leung Ting dozens of times. But never heard his side of the story so the link really helps.
> good luck with training.
> 
> 
> ...


 
You are welcome my friend . 

Here is another thing might be interesting.(just scroll down to see the interview) 
http://www.leungting.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=0&lang=en

Wish you all the best:ultracool .


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## KOROHO (Jul 10, 2006)

I have always had a lot of respect for Lunt Ting and his students who I have trained with.  But Leung Ting is also no stranger to controversy so I am not too surprised to see an article like this.

I am surprised to read that some saw Bruce Lee as a potential inheritor above Leung Ting.  This makes me question the political motivations of the article.  Lee was Leung Ting's junior, and as far as I know as kicked out and ostracized.

I still see Leung Ting as the senior Wing Chun/Tsun teacher, regardless of how you spell it.


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## Street Brawler (Jul 10, 2006)

KOROHO said:
			
		

> I have always had a lot of respect for Lunt Ting and his students who I have trained with. But Leung Ting is also no stranger to controversy so I am not too surprised to see an article like this.
> 
> I am surprised to read that some saw Bruce Lee as a potential inheritor above Leung Ting. This makes me question the political motivations of the article. Lee was Leung Ting's junior, and as far as I know as kicked out and ostracized.
> 
> I still see Leung Ting as the senior Wing Chun/Tsun teacher, regardless of how you spell it.


 
I think Bruce Lee was much more before Leung Ting in Wing Chun. GM Yipman taught several students in Fatshan before coming to HK. Those were his most seniors. Now in HK, Sifu Leung Sheung was his first student, then came Sifu Lok Yiu, then Sifu Tsui Sheung Tin. After that joined Wong Shun-Leung followed by William Cheung and Bruce Lee. That's what I know. GM Leung Ting is the last closed door student to Yipman. It is said that he studied under him for a short time. Sifu Leung Sheung taught him along with Yipman. 

Now about inheritance of the system. Leung ting defended himself by the articles I posted their links. I personally connects with the EWTO. The European Kernspecht side. We train our system and it's very effective and nice. To the extent that we got many people with other martial arts background joining us .

Wish you all the best .


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## KOROHO (Jul 10, 2006)

Thank you again.
I don't know where I got the word that Leung Ting was Lee's senior.
But either way, wasn't Lee expelled?  That would disqualify him from any claims of successorship.
If this is correct, then there is a major problem with the article and again, I would have to question the motivation behind it.


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## Street Brawler (Jul 10, 2006)

KOROHO said:
			
		

> Thank you again.
> I don't know where I got the word that Leung Ting was Lee's senior.
> But either way, wasn't Lee expelled? That would disqualify him from any claims of successorship.
> If this is correct, then there is a major problem with the article and again, I would have to question the motivation behind it.


 
    About Bruce is something related with Yipman himself.
Check this.

http://www.wingtsunwelt.com/artikel.php?id=882

Wish you all the best:ultracool .


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## profesormental (Jul 10, 2006)

So...

This discussion leads me to ask...

Now that we have so much access to information, what do you think of the paths to #1 taken by several in the wing Chun, even the whole martial arts community?

In the book "Winning through Intimidation" by Ringer discusses the issue of Who put the first one as #1... who made the grandmaster a grandmaster?
 Who made the Founder the Founder?

Mostly the answer is in the marketing of the system and the freedom to make desisions that affect the product.

Mainly I respect LT beacuse he has marketed a product that has kept a very high standard... which cannot be said for many others.

Wing Chun's simplicity allows for this phenomena. (Note that simple does not mean efortless and/or easy!).

Personally, I only care that what I learn is good, no matter from who I learn it. Yet otehrs are impressed with fancy titles... so it may be important for them. So be it.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado


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## Street Brawler (Jul 10, 2006)

profesormental said:
			
		

> So...
> 
> This discussion leads me to ask...
> 
> ...


 
Yup. Learn whatever is useful and simple in self-defence. Learn Wing Chun for defending yourself, not for expecting to have a title.  

This is the Street Brawler term in defining martial arts . Thank you my friend for your opinion, it's 100% true.


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