# Improving boxing fundamentals.



## UserC

What are good ways to improve fundamentals in boxing? I got the power and I'm fluid in sparring, but I need to work on my technique.

Should I increase shadow boxing training at home, or try and buy something to punch to learn proper distancing? My apartment is too small for a heavy bag. 

Also, do gloves matter? My 160Z Everlast gloves are way too big for my hands, and feel like oven mitts on the heavy bag.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> What are good ways to improve fundamentals in boxing? I got the power and I'm fluid in sparring, but I need to work on my technique.
> 
> Should I increase shadow boxing training at home, or try and buy something to punch to learn proper distancing? My apartment is too small for a heavy bag.
> 
> Also, do gloves matter? My 160Z Everlast gloves are way too big for my hands, and feel like oven mitts on the heavy bag.


I do this thing I like to think of as freestyling forms, which is something I adapted from my WC training.

Basically, do your striking/boxing/positioning is an extremely slow motion "shadow box", freezing at random points, or points you believe feel 'off'. 

At this point I concentrate on where my balance is, where my positioning is, where my angles and weight are. Whether momentum affects the position, or if it's strong stationary. What muscles are being engaged, are they the right ones? Am I working against myself or is everything working in sync?

I find this helps me to fine tune things I don't notice at all at speed.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> What are good ways to improve fundamentals in boxing




Find a good coach/instructor!


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## UserC

Tez3 said:


> Find a good coach/instructor!



He's the one who told me I'm poor and lagging behind the rest.


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## JR 137

UserC said:


> He's the one who told me I'm poor and lagging behind the rest.


Did he tell you what needs to be fixed and how to fix it?  Isn’t that what instructors/coaches are supposed to do?

Aside from that, video yourself.  If you have a smartphone, the Coach’s Eye app is fantastic.  About $5 or $10.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> He's the one who told me I'm poor and lagging behind the rest.




There's a saying in martial arts, _'there's no bad students only bad instructors'. _He needs to train you properly or you need to find a new coach.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> He's the one who told me I'm poor and lagging behind the rest.


Well then that's his fault for not teaching better


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## UserC

Headhunter said:


> Well then that's his fault for not teaching better



That doesn't help me though. I am joining a new club soon and want to avoid getting shot down when I go past beginners. I trained repetitions obessively to no avail. It's as if I revert back to my primal beginnings whenever techniques are integrated with footwork.  Or my form just sucks and always did.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> That doesn't help me though. I am joining a new club soon and want to avoid getting shot down when I go past beginners. I trained repetitions obessively to no avail. It's as if I revert back to my primal beginnings whenever techniques are integrated with footwork.  Or my form just sucks and always did.




If you are going to a new club you will be more or less a beginner, the new instructors should assess where you are at then teach you accordingly. Explain to them what you think is the problem though I suspect it's not your problem but your coach either not explaining properly or just ignoring you.
If you are training something repeatedly after being shown properly then you will train it properly, if you haven't been shown properly or badly then you won't be practising properly. I doubt very much your form sucks, I have never know anyone not to improve when being properly taught, the progress may be slow but it is always there.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> That doesn't help me though. I am joining a new club soon and want to avoid getting shot down when I go past beginners. I trained repetitions obessively to no avail. It's as if I revert back to my primal beginnings whenever techniques are integrated with footwork.  Or my form just sucks and always did.


There's not much that can help you on here...no one knows you no ones seen you box only your coach can make you better talk to him to see what you need to work what's your paying him for


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

UserC said:


> That doesn't help me though. I am joining a new club soon and want to avoid getting shot down when I go past beginners. I trained repetitions obessively to no avail. It's as if I revert back to my primal beginnings whenever techniques are integrated with footwork.  Or my form just sucks and always did.


How long have you been doing it?
Another option for you is to post a video of you training technique, and how long you've been at it and we can give you feedback on that. Not the best option, but may help with some of the bad technique before you start your new club.


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## Buka

Welcome to MartialTalk, UserC.  

How many weeks have you boxing, bro?


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## UserC

Buka said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, UserC.
> 
> How many weeks have you boxing, bro?



Pure boxing about 4 months. Kickboxing 4 years...


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## UserC

I whooped his intermediate guys in sparring. Nice operating a gym where a kickboxer bullies boxing guys who can only box in theory.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> I whooped his intermediate guys in sparring. Nice operating a gym where a kickboxer bullies boxing guys who can only punch in theory.




Then it's not you that needs 'improving'.  Is there any particular reason you went for boxing after kickboxing?


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## UserC

Tez3 said:


> '.  Is there any particular reason you went for boxing after kickboxing?



Because I wanted to try out my fists against specialists. Even though my sparring experience is greater, I was still surprised how virginal they were. Especially concidering how dynamic they were on the pads when we took turns holding. 

Fast forward 10 minutes... Pants down.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> I whooped his intermediate guys in sparring. Nice operating a gym where a kickboxer bullies boxing guys who can only box in theory.


You shouldnt be 'bullying" anyone thats not what sparring is about


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## UserC

Headhunter said:


> You shouldnt be 'bullying" anyone thats not what sparring is about



That was a figurative speech for dominating.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

UserC said:


> That was a figurative speech for dominating.


You shouldn't be doing that either. Sparring is not a competition.

Also, with 4 years kickboxing experience, it would make sense that you are better at sparring than the 'intermediate' guys, especially if that starts at 4 months.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> That was a figurative speech for dominating.


This thread is all over the place according to you you're dominating everyone but you've got bad technique....this is just a guess but according to your original post you say you use good power in sparring...sound to me like you're going in hard using power during sparring but not using technique


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## Headhunter

kempodisciple said:


> You shouldn't be doing that either. Sparring is not a competition.
> 
> Also, with 4 years kickboxing experience, it would make sense that you are better at sparring than the 'intermediate' guys, especially if that starts at 4 months.


Yeah I mean kickboxing and boxing are the same thing punch wise. Yes kickboxing obviously mixes up punches and kicks but the kickboxing punches are the exact same as boxing punches


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## UserC

kempodisciple said:


> You shouldn't be doing that either. Sparring is not a competition.
> 
> Also, with 4 years kickboxing experience, it would make sense that you are better at sparring than the 'intermediate' guys, especially if that starts at 4 months.



I shouldn't be doing my best in sparring? 
Intermediates have trained longer than that on average.


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## UserC

Headhunter said:


> This thread is all over the place according to you you're dominating everyone but you've got bad technique....this is just a guess but according to your original post you say you use good power in sparring...sound to me like you're going in hard using power during sparring but not using technique



Your guess is wrong.


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## Tez3

Sparring can be used for competition as well as for learning specific or general techniques. It can also be used as less than full contact fighting practice. Depends what the instructor wants the students to learn. Some styles competitions are just sparring not actual hard contact.

Depending on the type of kick boxing ( some places don't spar or even fight full contact) the boxing students may well punch harder than kickboxers, the raison d'être of boxing being just punching competitively.


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## UserC

Tez3 said:


> Sparring can be used for competition as well as for learning specific or general techniques. It can also be used as less than full contact fighting practice. Depends what the instructor wants the students to learn. Some styles competitions are just sparring not actual hard contact.
> 
> Depending on the type of kick boxing ( some places don't spar or even fight full contact) the boxing students may well punch harder than kickboxers, the raison d'être of boxing being just punching competitively.



A boxers punch is harder than a kickboxers because the boxer sinks in to the punches. This is because they don't mix in kicks. The boxers bladed stance is also designed to generate maximum amount of force.

There are some kickboxers who switch back and forth in their body mechanics how to strike, and these tend to be guys who learned boxing on the side and realised, hey, I can knock people out boxing style, why not use it!


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> A boxers punch is harder than a kickboxers because the boxer sinks in to the punches. This is because they don't mix in kicks. The boxers bladed stance is also designed to generate maximum amount of force.
> 
> There are some kickboxers who switch back and forth in their body mechanics how to strike, and these tend to be guys who learned boxing on the side and realised, hey, I can knock people out boxing style, why not use it!




I've done both kick boxing and boxing, been doing martial arts for decades.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> A boxers punch is harder than a kickboxers because the boxer sinks in to the punches. This is because they don't mix in kicks. The boxers bladed stance is also designed to generate maximum amount of force.
> 
> There are some kickboxers who switch back and forth in their body mechanics how to strike, and these tend to be guys who learned boxing on the side and realised, hey, I can knock people out boxing style, why not use it!



I do Dutch style Mui Thai, which is fully Western boxing from the waist up. (With elbows of course, but driven from a Western boxing power engine)

So it can vary.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> I do Dutch style Mui Thai, which is fully Western boxing from the waist up. (With elbows of course, but driven from a Western boxing power engine)
> 
> So it can vary.



Same with regular Muay Thai and generic Kickboxing. From the waist up, it's western boxing punches.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> Same with regular Muay Thai and generic Kickboxing. From the waist up, it's western boxing punches.


Incorrect. The mechanics are different in classical Mui Thai


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> Same with regular Muay Thai and generic Kickboxing. From the waist up, it's western boxing punches.




MT has elbows and back fists, spinning as well as 'standing'.


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## Martial D

Tez3 said:


> MT has elbows and back fists, spinning as well as 'standing'.


They also don't dip into their hooks and uppercuts, it's very arm punchy. These days a lot of Mui Thai guys use the Dutch style where we do throw like a boxer, because it works, but pure Mt doesn't do that.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> They also don't dip into their hooks and uppercuts, it's very arm punchy. These days a lot of Mui Thai guys use the Dutch style where we do throw like a boxer, because it works, but pure Mt doesn't do that.



Doesn't that vary depending on the instructor?


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> Doesn't that vary depending on the instructor?



Well, these days sure. There are all sorts of blends of styles being taught around the world, including flavours of MT. When I say pure MT I mean the MT that has been generationally taught in thailand. Originally they didn't use closed fist punching at all but rather open hand slapping. It wasn't until the 1900s that western boxing began to creep it's way into the syllabus. Even today, many traditional MT guys keep a very rigid upper body.

This was more of a response to your claim that kickboxers punch softer than boxers due to mechanics, and that is not strictly true.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> Well, these days sure. There are all sorts of blends of styles being taught around the world, including flavours of MT. When I say pure MT I mean the MT that has been generationally taught in thailand. Originally they didn't use closed fist punching at all but rather open hand slapping. It wasn't until the 1900s that western boxing began to creep it's way into the syllabus. Even today, many traditional MT guys keep a very rigid upper body.
> 
> This was more of a response to your claim that kickboxers punch softer than boxers due to mechanics, and that is not strictly true.



Kickboxers do punch softer due to mechanics. I gave two reasons for why that is.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> Kickboxers do punch softer due to mechanics




Depends on where your kickboxing originates from.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> Kickboxers do punch softer due to mechanics. I gave two reasons for why that is.



Have you ever done either of these things? Me, I've been boxing for years, and practice Dutch style Mui Thai four times a week, mon-thurs. I really don't know what 'kickboxing' you were taught where they stand square and don't load their punches, (if any) but you might want to find a more qualified instructor.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> Have you ever done either of these things? Me, I've been boxing for years, and practice Dutch style Mui Thai four times a week, mon-thurs. I really don't know what 'kickboxing' you were taught where they stand square and don't load their punches, (if any) but you might want to find a more qualified instructor.



You are taught deeper knee bend in boxing. That's the first thing I noticed.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> You are taught deeper knee bend in boxing. That's the first thing I noticed.



Sigh. From what, youtube videos?

Do us all a favour, go make an introduction post with a little insight into your MA background. Maybe then We will know where you are coming from here, because everything you are saying here seems like armchair expertise tbh


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> Sigh. From what, youtube videos?



From the boxing gym.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> From the boxing gym.



So you know about kickboxing from a boxing gym? interesting. Maybe I should go learn about karate from a wrestling club


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> So you know about kickboxing from a boxing gym? interesting. Maybe I should go learn about karate from a wrestling club



No. I did Kickboxing and now boxing.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> No. I did Kickboxing and now boxing.


Well, again, if your kickboxing did not incorporate those two things you claimed were lacking, that is, a bladed stance and sinking into punches, that sucks for you I guess. But that certainly isn't universally true, and certainly isn't true of Dutch style MT. You should do your homework more thoroughly before you presume to speak in universals, as it doesn't reflect too well on you.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> Well, again, if your kickboxing did not incorporate those two things you claimed were lacking, that is, a bladed stance and sinking into punches, that sucks for you I guess. But that certainly isn't universally true, and certainly isn't true of Dutch style MT. You should do your homework more thoroughly before you presume to speak in universals, as it doesn't reflect too well on you.



Muay Thai is not Kickboxing.


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## Martial D

UserC said:


> Muay Thai is not Kickboxing.


Ya, I think we are done here.


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## UserC

Martial D said:


> Ya, I think we are done here.



I hope so.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> Muay Thai is not Kickboxing.


Oh dear..


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## UserC

Headhunter said:


> Oh dear..



If you want to piss of a MT fighter, tell him he's a Kickboxer.


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## Tez3

UserC said:


> If you want to piss of a MT fighter, tell him he's a Kickboxer.




Well tbh I've never noticed they cared much one way or another and I know plenty of both.  Most just think of themselves as 'fighters'.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> If you want to piss of a MT fighter, tell him he's a Kickboxer.


Sure ill say it next time im at my muay thai gym where i have trained for years and a number of pro fighters refer to themselves as kickboxers


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## Martial D

There's 2 ex MT pros at my MMA club, both refer to themselves as kickboxers. I should probably inform them they should be more sensitive and careful with their words, I guess.


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## Buka

UserC said:


> What are good ways to improve fundamentals in boxing? I got the power and I'm fluid in sparring, but I need to work on my technique.
> 
> Should I increase shadow boxing training at home, or try and buy something to punch to learn proper distancing? My apartment is too small for a heavy bag.
> 
> Also, do gloves matter? My 160Z Everlast gloves are way too big for my hands, and feel like oven mitts on the heavy bag.



I think you just need to give it a little more time, bro, four months isn't that long. Especially the distancing. And I think distance is what will take the longest to get used to. But you'll be fine, just go with the flow of the boxing gym.


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## UserC

This is my best shot - the jab, which I'm able to dominate most recreational students with in sparring. The problem lies elsewhere.


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## Headhunter

UserC said:


> This is my best shot - the jab, which I'm able to dominate most recreational students with in sparring. The problem lies elsewhere.


Cool story bro


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## UserC

Headhunter said:


> Cool story bro



I'm not your bro


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