# Which Martial Art to choose for these quite usual conditions (nowadays)?



## Medo (Apr 24, 2014)

Hey,

I'm quite new. I trained Krav Maga for a year but quite many winters have come and gone since then. I was hoping you could advice me.

If you spend a lot of time in the wilderness, in the woods, on cliffs, in open fields... That is to say on often uneven, sometimes semi-loose terrain, switching between open spaces and limited space (trees) and the fact that hard surface may or may not be found below... How would your thinking go with regards to chosing a martial arts style? Which would be among the most effective?

I want to train for the self-defence aspect and I want to be able to fight in this terrain to the point where I'm ready to chose a style that is believed to work well under these conditions.

I'm thinking grappling-heavy styles might be a problem due to the surface being so uncontrolled? But I may be wrong? Hopefully you get what I'm asking here


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2014)

sounds to me like you spend a lot of time in the wilderness, either alone or with trusted friends and /or family.  Who do you believe you might need to fight/defend yourself against?  I think you do not need martial training for this environment.

if there is more info that is relevant to your situation. let us know.


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## Medo (Apr 24, 2014)

Flying Crane said:


> sounds to me like you spend a lot of time in the wilderness, either alone or with trusted friends and /or family.  Who do you believe you might need to fight/defend yourself against?  I think you do not need martial training for this environment.
> 
> if there is more info that is relevant to your situation. let us know.



I'm not THAT far "into the wilderness". Let's just say there are shady people in the more inhabited areas not far from where I am :/


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2014)

Medo said:


> Let's just say there are shady people in the more inhabited areas not far from where I am :/



seriously, if you know of this ahead of time you need to be having some discussions with the police, and then avoid the areas where you might run into them.

that being said, if you have a strong understanding of your methods, then any martial art ought to be useful in any terrain.  You just need high quality instruction (which can be hard to find) and then you need to train hard enough to understand it well and develop high quality skills.  That part is your responsibility.


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## Medo (Apr 24, 2014)

Flying Crane said:


> seriously, if you know of this ahead of time you need to be having some discussions with the police, and then avoid the areas where you might run into them.
> 
> that being said, if you have a strong understanding of your methods, then any martial art ought to be useful in any terrain.  You just need high quality instruction (which can be hard to find) and then you need to train hard enough to understand it well and develop high quality skills.  That part is your responsibility.



There is nothing to report yet and I'd like it to stay that way. But I'd like the feeling that I can defend myself, just in case 

It would also be fun with the training. But you have no advice on which styles might suit these conditions more than others?


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2014)

Medo said:


> There is nothing to report yet and I'd like it to stay that way. But I'd like the feeling that I can defend myself, just in case
> 
> It would also be fun with the training. But you have no advice on which styles might suit these conditions more than others?



i do not have any such advice, because i do not believe it is relevant.  Study something that you find interesting, and develop your skill.  you could also practice in this wilderness environment so that you become accustomed and used to it.  in doing so, you may become aware of aspects of your system that are difficult in that terrain or that are especially useful in that terrain.  but that's part of the developmental process.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 24, 2014)

Medo said:


> spend a lot of time in the wilderness,...


I would find a good hiking stick (a solid metal pipe will be good). Put this on one end of it and learn how to use it. What style? I don't know. Stab, stab, and still stab.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2014)

carrying a weapon could be escalating things before anything even happens.  I still say if you have concerns, even if no reportable incident, then talk to the police.  at least make sure they are aware of your concerns.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 24, 2014)

Since you are looking for some thing that could work on uneven ground outside I would investigate and find an instructor teaching outside.  Many FMA, Silat, Bando, Budo Taijutsu instructors teach outside.  That might be a good start in finding some thing applicable and that you are interested in.  I would also as Flying Crane recommend train with a firearm and if you can carry legally in your state that would be a very viable option.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 24, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I would also as Flying Crane recommend train with a firearm and if you can carry legally in your state that would be a very viable option.



That could be a viable option, but I just wanted to point out that I've edited my earlier comments.  I realized that on an internet forum where we are all somewhat anonymous and I don't REALLY know to whom I am talking, I just wasn't comfortable recommending that someone carry a firearm.  I'm not anti-gun and I do enjoy target shooting, but it is my opinion that for the vast majority of people, carrying a firearm is simply irrelevant to their life circumstances.  I understand there is a constitutional right, but in most cases I believe there is no need to exercise it.


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## Instructor (Apr 25, 2014)

Medo said:


> Hey,
> 
> I'm quite new. I trained Krav Maga for a year but quite many winters have come and gone since then. I was hoping you could advice me.
> 
> ...



Krav should continue serve here in my opinion.  Resume your initial training.  As for questionable terrain I would use techniques that mostly keep both feet on the ground.


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## Transk53 (Apr 25, 2014)

Being from the country, I know all about heavy woodland and soft ground etc. I would think you be better of learning _"Parkour"_ if you could and add that to the Krav. I would agree with Instructor in regards to Krav. However, the peeps above could do with some info about what is in you're area, even if it is remote, there are always options, even if it is the case of shoving in a disc on a optical drive.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 25, 2014)

the best way to know if what you are learning will work in the woods is to go into the woods and practice. 
How dangerious is it to throw a high kick, do a hip throw, roll on the ground,etc. Can you take a fall in that environment with out being hurt? 
It also depends on how spacious are these woods, are there low hanging limbs, thick or thin areas, rivers,streams, cliffs, sudden deep pits, all these things help or hinder what you can do in the woods SO can your training survive these things


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## Marnetmar (Apr 25, 2014)

I think dabbling a bit in Eskrima/FMA would be a good idea.


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## wingchun100 (Apr 25, 2014)

tshadowchaser said:


> the best way to know if what you are learning will work in the woods is to go into the woods and practice.
> How dangerious is it to throw a high kick, do a hip throw, roll on the ground,etc. Can you take a fall in that environment with out being hurt?
> It also depends on how spacious are these woods, are there low hanging limbs, thick or thin areas, rivers,streams, cliffs, sudden deep pits, all these things help or hinder what you can do in the woods SO can your training survive these things



I agree. I think high kicks on uneven ground would be a bad idea, so something with mostly upper body techniques would serve the purpose.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 25, 2014)

Flying Crane said:


> carrying a weapon could be escalating things before anything even happens.  I still say if you have concerns, even if no reportable incident, then talk to the police.  at least make sure they are aware of your concerns.


But if he were to carry a shillelagh, or just a hard walking stick, no escalation. Just using it to help walk on the uneven ground.


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## jks9199 (Apr 25, 2014)

Learning stick techniques (Japanese hanbo, for example, or simply middle size sticks from various systems) would be useful; as noted, you can carry a stick without seeming to be carrying a weapon. 

Any style can be used in a variety of conditions -- IF you practice it to be used that way.  Some styles certainly are more reflective of fighting in the surface conditions where they were developed, but that doesn't mean that they can't be used in other settings.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 25, 2014)

kempodisciple said:


> But if he were to carry a shillelagh, or just a hard walking stick, no escalation. Just using it to help walk on the uneven ground.



sure, true enough for something like that.  but an obvious weapon like a firearm or a knife turned into an improvised spear, that sends an automatic message that has not yet been shown to be needed.


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## Medo (Apr 25, 2014)

Thank you for all of your opinions. They've been very valuable and many good things have been said. I'd like to especially give thanks for recommending FMA/Eskrima. I looked it up and it seems to have exactly the kind of historical roots (fighting and training a lot in rural areas) and the versatility that I'm looking for. Good stuff!:boing1:
:duel:


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## Brian King (Apr 25, 2014)

Medo,
Congratulations on seeing the possible dangers, many people wander their surroundings totally unaware. Forewarned is forearmed. The absolute best defense is awareness and simply using maneuver to totally avoid the danger. Avoidance is not always a possibility so it is good to be prepared as well as aware. 
Seeking the best martial art for a given circumstance is a natural instinct, but, depending on what martial art is available to learn in your area, or how much travel time and work you are willing to put in to learn the martial art are other pieces of the question and answer of the search. For instance you might come up with XYZ martial art and decide that it is best for the foreseen circumstances, yet there might not be an instructor willing to train you located within a thousand mile radius. 
As with all martial art training find an instructor and group of students that you enjoy being around and that has a teaching style that complements you learning style. Find an art that you enjoy training. After all, what is the sense of hating hours and hours of training year after year in order to deal with a possibility that might not ever appear?  
In your circumstance I might seek an art that works with weapons especially improvised, bladed, stick, and firearms. The idea being the kind of weapons you might use as well as the kind of weapons that might be used against you. Being outdoors, the outdoors can either be an obstacle or an opportunity depending on the mindset that you develop.  
If you usually have someone with you, seek an art that also teaches how to work with a knowledgeable as well as handicapped partner. 
Seek an art that deals with multiple opponents, as they also teach awareness by necessity.  
Do you like dogs? A Great Pyrenees is a wonderful breed, smart and commands respect wherever they go and are born guard dogs. 
As stated up thread, many instructors and clubs train outdoors. It is fun, entertaining and healthy practice. I really enjoy working outdoors. Below are a few clips of Systema training outdoors. There are many more as many Systema clubs enjoy the outdoors and the perspective that training outdoors awakens.
http://youtu.be/5ALxIL8YTbw
Disarmed by a tree
http://youtu.be/WdAdvDOboEc
outdoor seminar (German)
http://youtu.be/NzmuneuhnXE
Rolling outdoors
http://youtu.be/8u97bVQKQjU
Immersion Camp

Regards
Brian King


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 25, 2014)

I am glad Brian stopped by here as Systema might really fit your need as well!


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## Brian King (Apr 26, 2014)

Here is a clip of my buddy Vali's school on Denman Island, Canada. Vali is an interesting person with loads of real world expertise. His students are always top notch. Great destination training for those looking for really good practicable training.

enjoy
Training at RootsDojo - YouTube


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 26, 2014)

Yes, I have seen Vali move and he looked great.  I donated to his dojo to help the process with his new school and wish him all the best!


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## Brian King (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks Brian. Every bit helps that school and community. I do really enjoy working with him and his students. Top notch


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 28, 2014)

Medo said:


> There is nothing to report yet and I'd like it to stay that way. But I'd like the feeling that I can defend myself, just in case
> 
> It would also be fun with the training. *But you have no advice on which styles might suit these conditions more than others?*



As already said, I don't think it makes a difference which style, as long as you learn it well and keep your sense of where you are.  MA taught and learned correctly, no matter which one, should teach you balance and situation awareness.  Then some practice in the areas you are in will hone your teaching.

If you learn your art well, and give some attention to how different geographical features affect your art, if at all, you should be all right.  Remember, whatever affects you will affect any opponent you might face, but he won't have your advantages in training.



wingchun100 said:


> I agree. I think high kicks on uneven ground would be a bad idea, so something with mostly upper body techniques would serve the purpose.



I trained and was belted in Hapkido.  We learn a few high kicks, but we believe mostly in mid to low kicks.  Of course, we also believe in much grappling.  We think Hapkido is a good and efficient art.  Anyone who doesn't think that about the art they are studying should look for another art.


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## skribs (Jul 9, 2014)

> I'm not anti-gun and I do enjoy target shooting, but it is my opinion  that for the vast majority of people, carrying a firearm is simply  irrelevant to their life circumstances.  I understand there is a  constitutional right, but in most cases I believe there is no need to  exercise it.



The point at which having a weapon is relevant to your life circumstances is not of your choosing.  If you're out and about and get mugged, and you're not carrying your weapon because it wasn't relevant before, well guess what? It's relevant now, and you don't have it.

Out in the woods, a decent firearm, a flashlight, a knife, or a big stick could all be good for self defense.  If you're not comfortable with a firearm, the knife, flashlight, and stick all have other uses.  Just be sure you know how to use them effectively.

As to what art you should train?  Definitely not a combat sport.  They'll only teach you how to fight in controlled conditions.  Maybe look at an art rooted in combat and/or infiltration (I'm thinking ninjutsu or FMA).


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 9, 2014)

Flying Crane said:


> i do not have any such advice, because i do not believe it is relevant.  Study something that you find interesting, and develop your skill.  you could also practice in this wilderness environment so that you become accustomed and used to it.  in doing so, you may become aware of aspects of your system that are difficult in that terrain or that are especially useful in that terrain.  but that's part of the developmental process.


You see this is where I think you are missing out. You don't want a big school and that is fine, but let's say you did. You take a question like this and work it into your whole environmental & situational awareness program.


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## donnaTKD (Jul 9, 2014)

also what you'll learn is how to interact with your environment - the trees, the animals, the way things things sound and move - any martial art practised in this environment will allow you to channel and focus so you can "see" these things 

as for the shady people - all you have do come crunch time is total one of them and the rest will respect you and back off


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 15, 2014)

Medo said:


> Hey,
> 
> I'm quite new. I trained Krav Maga for a year but quite many winters have come and gone since then. I was hoping you could advice me.
> 
> ...



There are some styles that were developed by japanese fishermen who were on fishing boats all day and had to be able to fight on a boat that is constantly moving, rocking, and tilting. Such a style might suit you for your environment.


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## Blindside (Jul 15, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> There are some styles that were developed by japanese fishermen who were on fishing boats all day and had to be able to fight on a boat that is constantly moving, rocking, and tilting. Such a style might suit you for your environment.



I have never heard of this, what style are you talking about?


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## mook jong man (Jul 16, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> There are some styles that were developed by japanese fishermen who were on fishing boats all day and had to be able to fight on a boat that is constantly moving, rocking, and tilting. Such a style might suit you for your environment.



That is not Japanese , it is one of theories of how the Wing Chun stance came to be.
Wing Chun is Chinese.


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## cqbspartan (Oct 10, 2014)

To answer your question, best way to approach it is to find someone who trains outdoors, preferably in woods...not easy to find...I am the only one I know of in fact that teaches that way...
some systems like Filipino systems were designed to fight in jungle environment with mud and tree roots...aside form your previous Krav Maga training, here are some more ideas...
      Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's creation and is a blend of sorts, with a foundation in Wing Chun but combines that with 25 other systems, and striving to train in a variety of drills and for a variety  of attacks...
    Western boxing and Muay Thai(brutally effective and tough conditioning) are a good place to start as well...so in considering an art I would say first try to determine which direction you would like to go as far as your training is concerned...Do you want mainly street defense, striking arts, throwing arts, ground work and so on?? 
    Wing Chun, Filipino arts, some Indonesian Silat systems use fine motor skills...very effective and quick systems...


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