# "Starter" weapon?



## FearlessFreep (Feb 8, 2009)

I've been considering adding a firearm to my personal/family self-defense repertoire. I'm looking for recommendations on what would make sense for personal use for a newbie or to introduce to family members (including the fact that there are small children in the house)

Note:  I'll be talking to the husband of a friend for training and family advice.  He's taken my oldest son shooting, they have children and the house and she (my wife's friend) carries in her purse

Note 2: My MA instructor is ex-police and ex-military with a strong weapons background; so I have good sources of practical usage advice around me


----------



## searcher (Feb 8, 2009)

Before you go and guy a firearm, you should try out several.   I always start all of my new students with a .22lr pistol.   I then let them try 9mm, .40, .38, .357, .45acp, and a few others.   Once they have had a chance to shoot different calibers, I have them try different models.   Since no 2 shooters are the same, it will be what feels best to them and what they want to use it for(HD only or Carry only or HD&Carry).   Then we find them a good deal on what they are looking for.

I, myself, have varying calibers and varying models of HGs in my house for HD, but my primary HD firearms is a Remington 870 tactical with #4 buckshot.   Depending on where I am in the house dictates to me which HG I go to after that.


----------



## Deaf Smith (Feb 8, 2009)

searcher is right. Get a .22 first. Learn to shoot. Once you get comfortable shooting (and .22 is CHEEP compared to the larger rounds) then look around. I'd then go shooting with your instructor and try several guns to see what you feel best with.

Deaf


----------



## David Weatherly (Feb 8, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> searcher is right. Get a .22 first. Learn to shoot. Once you get comfortable shooting (and .22 is CHEEP compared to the larger rounds) then look around. I'd then go shooting with your instructor and try several guns to see what you feel best with.
> 
> Deaf


 

Great advice from Deaf.  A .22 is perfect for a starter weapon.


----------



## Bikewr (Feb 8, 2009)

Most areas have some sort of range where you can rent various weapons for the hour or so.  Take someone knowledgeable with you and try things.

Generally, we like revolvers for beginners, only because the "manual of arms" is somewhat easier and the weapon generally simpler to handle.

My wife was literally terrified of firearms when we got married (Me a police officer and at the time I had maybe 30 handguns...)
A couple of trips to the range and she was an enthusiastic shooter!


----------



## searcher (Feb 8, 2009)

Bikewr- My Wife was the sameway when we got married.   Then one day she saw a pink Ruger 10/22 rifle.   The rest is history.


----------



## Hawke (Feb 8, 2009)

Take a look around and get a feel for different types of guns.  Some guns are more forgivable than others.  Since you have a family also look at different types of ammo.  You probably don't want to shoot through walls.


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 9, 2009)

Your own body's mechanics are going to be the most important aspect here.  It's critical to learn proper trigger control, and how to deal with the recoil of the shot, and each aspect is better learned individually.  From there, you can learn how to deal with the other parts of the body.  

As the others have stated, rent a .22 LR revolver or pistol, from your local range.  A brick of 500 rounds of .22 LR ammo is only about $13, and can give you loads of fun plinking.  Learn how to pull that trigger, without flinching.  Squeeze, not jerk.  

Given that a .22 LR pistol has only a slight recoil, you'll be able to shoot, and let the gun "ride" the recoil.  You don't want to anticipate the recoil, since your followup shots will be low.  

Once you are able to shoot without anticipating recoil, then you can move onto more powerful calibers.  I would recommend firing either a .38 Special for revolvers, or a 9 mm for semiautomatic weapons.  Both are respectable calibers, and both are great ways to practice the more powerful rounds.  

Again, start with learning to squeeze that trigger, learning where the breaking points are, by dry-firing it.  Once you do this, start shooting slowly, squeezing the trigger, and once the cartridge had been fired, do not fight the recoil.  

Rinse, repeat, and enjoy!  



Some individuals I have known, tried to start right away on calibers the likes of the .357 magnum, .45 ACP, .44 magnum (ugh), and ended up developing some horrible flinching habits.  For that matter, they were wondering why they couldn't hit the man-sized silhouette target from 15 yards away, and that when they could, they were barely hitting the bottom.  Some of the excuses such as "these sights are messed up," or "the ammo really stinks" were commonplace, but in the end, they finally accepted the fact that their shooting mechanics were lousy, and were willing to unlearn.


----------



## thardey (Feb 9, 2009)

I start people on Airsoft guns.

The one I have is patterned after a Glock 21. It has a self-contained magazine for the CO2 and pellets. It also has a moving slide that is basically useless, but it locks back.

I can run through the basic "functions" of shooting a semi-auto with it. When I pass it to my non-gun friends, I strip the mag, lock the slide open, and hand it to them just like a real gun. Then I show them how to insert the mag, and drop the slide. When they hand it back to me, I make them pull the mag, and lock the slide back, again, before they hand it to me.

My sister bought the same gun, and she learned to shoot it pretty well. Six months later she bought an XD .40. She didn't flinch at all when she shot, and had a nice, tight group. Her first words were: "It shoots like my airsoft gun!"


----------



## tellner (Feb 9, 2009)

The best advice is what everyone has given so far. 

First, learn how to shoot. Take a good introductory class. Learn about how they work. Shake out your boots for the scorpions of misinformation which are almost certainly hiding there.

Get comfortable with firearms. If you're not a shooter and are completely nonchalant when you first pick up a gun, if there's no tremor or touch of nervousness when you first squeeze the trigger you're not taking it seriously enough.

Pick up and handle several guns. Make that a lot of guns. As long as it's a well-made modern firearm from a reputable manufacturer in a decent caliber (generally a minimum of .380ACP) and configuration it's all down to personal preference. Forget what everyone says about the perfect brand or the sweetest gun. As long as it's in the broad category of decent guns the best one is the one that fits your hands and comes to the point of aim automatically. Figuring that out is more Art than Science and more feel than Art. 

For example, everyone told us that a 1911 was too big and too heavy for a woman. The local gun shops suggested the (overpriced) LadySmith or the Beretta 92 for my wife. She hated the Smith. The Beretta didn't fit her hand for squat, and the weird 3-stage trigger pull threw her off. But she was a dead shot with my Commie Colt (Norinco 1911 with snubbed hammer, extended slide stop and ambidextrous safety, two piece guide rod, flat checkered mainspring housing, beavertail grip safety). And when she got a chance to try the Colt Diamondback she achieved Zen. Twelve shots right through the 10 ring.

The advice to start with a .22 is good, but don't take it as Gospel. .22 is easy to learn on and cheap to feed. If you only have enough money for one gun, then spend it on a gun that you're happy with and which you can use for its intended purpose right now. If you go to the range and rent a .22 for five bucks twenty times you'll still have an extra hundred that you can put towards your real weapon. Our first handgun was an old S&W .38 special. We weren't deprived by learning to shoot with it. A little poorer, but no worse for wear. And at least we were practicing with what we were going to use.

Consider how this new gun of yours is going to be used. If you plan to carry in public you will be limited to a pistol or revolver. If your primary goal is home protection, you might consider a long gun. There are endless debates about whether the increased length of a rifle or shotgun makes it too unwieldy inside the home and too easy to be taken away. On the other hand, someone hit with a pistol cartridge may die, which is very unfortunate. He is not so likely to stop trying to hurt you right away. A shotgun or rifle with the correct load has real immediate stopping power.


----------



## searcher (Feb 9, 2009)

Might I suggest that you look up a local NRA instructor.    Then take a _NRA First Steps_ class.    All NRA instructors are required to have several firearms on hand for demonstration purposes and I am sure if you ask nicely they will let you try some out.

Not all instructors will let you do this, but most will.


----------



## jetboatdeath (Feb 9, 2009)

GO TO A GUN STORE...
Don't listen to any one who says "get this gun it works for me" as in brand name. The .22 is a good call. But even with this in mind touch,hold and feel as many as you can, some are lighter,some are longer,some have bigger grips some have smaller. Find one that "fits" one that you like. The most important part is getting one you will shoot. People ask me how I can shoot their rifle/pistol better than they can there are no secrets I just shoot alot. A gun that sits around in a safe and never gets used is just a paper weight....
Most of all have fun!!!!


----------



## FearlessFreep (Feb 10, 2009)

I can't thank and respond to each post individually so I just wanted to pop back in and put out a general "thanks" for all the good words of advice


----------



## Shaolin Bushido (Feb 10, 2009)

Glock 22.  It's my service weapon and it's easy as pie for me.  I had very little handgun experience prior to using it.


----------



## lklawson (Feb 10, 2009)

FearlessFreep said:


> I've been considering adding a firearm to my personal/family self-defense repertoire.


12 Ga. Shotgun for home defense.  Pump works great.  Get a shorter bbl rather than a longer.  Use 2" shells not 3".  I know some folks who use a "Coach Gun" style shotgun (double bbl, external hammers, short bbl length).



> I'm looking for recommendations on what would make sense for personal use for a newbie or to introduce to family members


Like everyone says, .22 are great to learn on.  The felt recoil and report are as minimal as possible (still wear hearing protection though).



> (including the fact that there are small children in the house)


Training is everything.  Teach children to treat guns the way you teach them to respect knives, fire, etc.  If it makes you feel better, there are any number of quick access gun safes that you can purchase.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## lklawson (Feb 10, 2009)

Hawke said:


> Since you have a family also look at different types of ammo. You probably don't want to shoot through walls.


*EVERYTHING* shoots through walls. Hardball, hollow point, soft point, "expanding point" (edit - Cor-Bon PowRBall, etc.), .22LR, .380, etc. It *ALL* goes through two layers of drywall like it's not even there.

I think MAYBE Glaser Safety Slugs MIGHT stop (or significantly dissipate) with the first layer, but unless you fill your walls with sand or layer upon layer of kevlar, you might as well shoot military hardball from a M1 because it's all going to go through walls anyway. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## tellner (Feb 10, 2009)

Shaolin Bushido said:


> Glock 22.  It's my service weapon and it's easy as pie for me.  I had very little handgun experience prior to using it.



Wrong answer. It's _*your*_ service weapon and easy for _*you*_. That doesn't mean it's going to be the right one for _*FF*_.


----------



## Tames D (Feb 10, 2009)

A .22 for self defense? That's like depending on rubber nunchaku for self defense. I'd start with a .40 Glock.


----------



## searcher (Feb 10, 2009)

QUI-GON said:


> A .22 for self defense? That's like depending on rubber nunchaku for self defense. I'd start with a .40 Glock.


 

He did not say it was for SD, he said he was looking for a starter firearm.

He can get another size for SD or HD later on, after he has training.   And he may not want a .40.   I don't like .40, does that mean you should not like it?   No, it doesn't.


----------



## lklawson (Feb 10, 2009)

searcher said:


> He did not say it was for SD, he said he was looking for a starter firearm.


 
Sure he did.
"I've been considering adding a firearm to my personal/family self-defense repertoire."​ Personally, I usually recommend a shotgun because they're easier and more effective than pistols.  However, most people, myself included, generally gravitate to pistols for any number of reaons.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Tames D (Feb 10, 2009)

searcher said:


> He did not say it was for SD, he said he was looking for a starter firearm.
> 
> He can get another size for SD or HD later on, after he has training. And he may not want a .40. I don't like .40, does that mean you should not like it? No, it doesn't.


 
My mistake. I thought he used the words "self defense repertoire". I'll go back and check. Maybe you should too. 
As far as me suggesting a .40, it was just a suggestion. I'm not here to force him (or you) to like it. 
I started years ago with a 9mm. I didn't find it to be difficult, even as a beginner starting out with firearms.


----------



## jetboatdeath (Feb 10, 2009)

UMM i don't think the .22 is "bad" for SD something to be said for getting off 9 rounds with no recoil. And as it is said the best gun to have in a SD situation is the one you have...


----------



## Guardian (Feb 11, 2009)

You've got plenty of advice around you as you stated, ex-police, military, they can give you advice, don't come on a forum asking for advice on guns, everyone has their favorite or personal choice, to much opinion can be a negative thing also.

Go with the advice of those closest to you that know you, your family your area, your way of life and go from their.


----------



## lklawson (Feb 11, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> UMM i don't think the .22 is "bad" for SD something to be said for getting off 9 rounds with no recoil. And as it is said the best gun to have in a SD situation is the one you have...


According to http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/22lr/gel22lr.htm at least two of the .22LR rounds tested in calibrated ballistic gelatin penetrated a mere 1/2 inch shy of the FBI recommended minimum 12 inches for "effective stopping power."

While few will argue that a .22LR is the optimum (not by a long shot), it does show that it can (nearly anyway) meet the bare minimum requirements and should not be treated too dismissively.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Drac (Feb 11, 2009)

I loved my Sig P-230 ( .380)..


----------



## KenpoTex (Feb 11, 2009)

I guess I'll throw my $0.02 in...

You didn't specify what type of firearm you're looking for so I'll mention two:

-Shotgun: A long-gun is far superior to a handgun when it comes to stopping people.  Nothing fancy is required, I'd recommend either a Mossberg 500 or 590, or a Remington 870.  I prefer a 12 gauge with a barrel length of 18-20 inches.  The only real downside is that younger kids may find shooting something like this uncomfortable.  Even if this is not your first gun, I would recommend that you get one at some point.

-Handgun:  While not as powerful, a handgun might be a little better in this case since you're also interested in having your wife and kids learn to use it as well.  Furthermore, should you decide at some point to get your concealed-carry license, you'll already have a pistol. 
 I consider reliability to be the *most* important criteria with all others (ergonomics, appearance, etc.) coming in a distant second.  For this reason, I'd recommend a Glock, Smith&Wesson M&P, SIG, or Walther.  All these have a great track record (even though the S&W hasn't been around as long as the others).  As far as caliber goes, I'd recommend 9mm...with good ammo, it will do anything the other popular calibers will do and it is the cheapest "defensive caliber" which will allow you to shoot more.

Regardless of what you decide, make sure to get some professional training from a competent instructor who has experience teaching people how to fight with a firearm.
Here's a good place to look for training and it's not that far from you
http://www.coloradoshootingsports.com/Training.html


----------



## searcher (Feb 11, 2009)

QUI-GON. My apologies on my post.   I got stuck on the "starter" portion and failed to keep in mind the SD part.


----------



## HM2PAC (Feb 11, 2009)

Another variation on the starter/SD gun is this:

Go to a range that will let you try multiple types of handguns. After you have an idea of what you like, get one that you can buy a 22LR conversion kit for.

This way you can train with your main weapon using 22LR. This will save a lot of $$$, and increase the amount of times you can pull the trigger at each setting.

Just a thought.


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Feb 11, 2009)

Well.....

I'm gonna be the wild card and throw in a different recommendation:

If you just want a practice gun, it doesn't matter what type.

If you want to eventually carry it after you recieve appropriate training?

Well, I have my fullsize Glock 17 with its 3 preban mags, and I like it, it's a nice, uncomplicated, proven reliable design as auto pistols go. It's my "house gun" if I cannot access the shotgun( Mossberg 590A1) in time, and I have an appropriate holster/belt for those occasions when I want to carry a fullsize, full capacity auto when " yer insides tell ya to", as John Wayne might say.

But between you and I?

What do I usually find myself carrying when I do carry? What do I usually end up betting my life on?

My .38 snubbie( S&W model 642-2 with Crimson Trace grips).

They're "old school", and in this day and age of high capacity wonderautos, almost nobody considers them a first choice , but you can't beat the particular balance of power, accuracy and reliability in any modern, well made revolver.

Now,granted, talking specifically of snub revolvers and not fullsize ones,  any gun that weighs 12 ounces, with a 2 inch barrel,  that can be covered with a man's hand, firing .38 Special or .38 +P, can hardly be considered an ideal target gun. 

But its balance of enough power, enough lightness and enough carryability is why they're still around in dangerous places and why the model 642 was S&W's top selling gun of 2006.

The Disadvantage of a snubbie  are only three as compared to a fullsize auto:

* Short barrel--not as accurate at longer ranges but within the 21 foot or shorter actual combat distance, practice will yield good enough "combat accuracy" in the snubbie.

* Comparatively fewer rounds between reloads--My fuillsize Glock 17 with it's preban 17+2 extended mag, plus "one in the pipe" gives me an on-tap, ready to go capacity of 20 rounds without needing a reload. That *IS* a comforting thought in this day and age of group assaults, and is an increase in "firepower" of 400 percent compared with the snubbie's five rounds. But as the Marines are fond of saying: "One hundred rounds do not consitute firepower. ONE HIT constitutes firepower". And you can't hit with anything you didn't carry. 

* Slower reloads--though with speedloaders and the reintroduction in certain models of the old WWI "moon clips" that gap is not so wide as once it was. Not at all.

The advantage of revolvers( but in particular the snubbie) are, in fact, quite numerous to those who will look and study:


http://www.snubtraining.com/pdfs/WhyRevolversBeatAutos.pdf

something to think about.


----------



## lklawson (Feb 12, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> My .38 snubbie( S&W model 642-2 with Crimson Trace grips).
> 
> [snip]
> 
> The advantage of revolvers( but in particular the snubbie) are, in fact, quite numerous to those who will look and study


There's quite a bit to be said for revolvers.  However, some of the basic and most powerful arguments are:

Will never fail to feed.
Will never fail to extract, stovepipe, etc.
A failure to fire (dud round) or "underpowered" rounds will not bork up a follow up shot.
You don't have to rack the slide.
You don't have to worry about the "Safety," Cock-n-lock, or any of that "Condition 1/2/whatever" stuff.
Statistically speaking, 6 rounds is sufficient for most Civilian SD situations (ims, 2-4 rounds was the average fired).
Personally, I don't have a carry piece that's a revolver but I do have a .45 SAA and couple of C&R that I just love.  Utterly reliable.  Completely.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## DergaSmash (Jul 13, 2009)

I agree for the msot part. Go to a big range that rents weapons. Try out several different types and calibers. But in terms of defense, you want a cartridge that brings stopping power without a great deal of over-penetration. Kitting your attacker is one thing. Shooting through him into the next house and killing your neighbor is another. Yet you want a cartridge that will take your attacker down even if you don't hit center mass or in the head.


----------



## Grenadier (Jul 14, 2009)

DergaSmash said:


> I agree for the msot part. Go to a big range that rents weapons. Try out several different types and calibers. But in terms of defense, you want a cartridge that brings stopping power without a great deal of over-penetration.


 
Today's premium hollowpoint ammo has helped reduce the problem of overpenetration.  

The problem with the older generation hollowpoints, is that they were highly dependent on high velocities to get reliable expansion.  With today's designs, a premium hollowpoint bullet should expand reliably over a much broader range of velocities, which is why previous ideas, such as "never use 147 grain 9 mm ammo" are no longer valid.  

If anything, I would feel equally confident using a standard pressure 147 grain Remington Golden Saber JHP (previously a no-no), as I would with my usual carry load, the Winchester Ranger 127 grain +P+ JHP.


----------



## Frostbite (Jul 14, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> I guess I'll throw my $0.02 in...
> 
> You didn't specify what type of firearm you're looking for so I'll mention two:
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you posted and would add that some other advantages of a handgun is that if you actually needed to move around the house with a weapon drawn, a handgun is more mobile and easier to bring to bear on your target, especially if you live in a smaller place/have narrow halls/etc.  The other advantage is that if you're a city dweller, like me, it's easier to find places to shoot a handgun, which means you're more inclined to practice.  And you should always practice if you intend to use it for self defense.



			
				Andy Moynihan said:
			
		

> The advantage of revolvers( but in particular the snubbie) are, in fact, quite numerous to those who will look and study



I'd add the caveat that with snubbies, there tends to be more felt recoil and fairly poor stock sights, so many people wouldn't consider them a "range gun."  For a starter gun, I'd recommend something in the full-size to compact range (not sub-compact), whether it was a revolver or semi-auto.


----------



## BLACK LION (Jul 14, 2009)

Problem with beginning with a .22 as an adult is the transition to higher calibers. More recoil and more intense audible and visual stimulus.   

For kids its perfect.    

this may sound strange but an AR-15 may not be a bad idea to jump into since it can double as defense/ security option and also as a training device for you and you kids...   you can get a dedicated 22lr upper or a 22lr conversion kit and swap it in for the kids or when you just want to drill some basic manipulations... swap it out to the standard caliber when in defense/security/carry mode.  

There are pistols out there that offer 22lr conversion kits as well... 

I would suggest a dedicated system with a 22lr conversion kit...  not a dedicated 22lr...


----------



## Carol (Jul 14, 2009)

3 years ago, I went to the range for the first time ever.  Andy M. started me with a 9mm.   I didn't have much trouble with it then.   Looking back on  it now, I think it was a great first choice.  I don't think feeling recoil or watching what it does to your aim when you are pulling the trigger for the first time is a bad thing.  

Thread here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=585976&highlight=range#post585976


----------



## Frostbite (Jul 14, 2009)

Nice shooting Carol!


----------



## Carol (Jul 14, 2009)

Frostbite said:


> Nice shooting Carol!



Thank you!  :asian:


----------



## KenpoTex (Jul 15, 2009)

DergaSmash said:


> I agree for the msot part. Go to a big range that rents weapons. Try out several different types and calibers. But in terms of defense, *you want a cartridge that brings stopping power without a great deal of over-penetration*. Kitting your attacker is one thing. Shooting through him into the next house and killing your neighbor is another. Yet *you want a cartridge that will take your attacker down even if you don't hit center mass or in the head*.



"Stopping power" and "knockdown power" are terms that need to die...they paint an inaccurate picture of what firearms are/are not capable of.

If you don't put the rounds into the correct areas, you can't count on anything significant happening regardless of what caliber you are using.


----------



## zDom (Jul 16, 2009)

I came to the same decision late last year and bought my first, a SIG p226 (in .40 cal), in January.

My one bit of advice would be: take a CCW (carry concealed weapon) course even if you think you will never carry (assuming you have CCW in your state).

The first time I fired my new weapon was during the course, so instructors were right there to make sure I started out on the right foot and didn't build in any bad habits.

As recommended, try some firearms out first, see what you like. I thought I was going to go with a 22 Glock having previously decided to go with .40 cal (after extensive research and asking around for opinions), but then I found I really, really liked the feel of the SIG 226.

Plug for the p226: VERY easy to field strip it, as far as autoloaders go.

On the other hand, while I am perfectly happy with it as a vehicle/home defense firearm, I find it is a bit big for me to comfortably carry concealed. Part of that may be that I went through the first 40 years of my life NOT carrying a big hunk of metal with me.

Am really leaning toward a S&W 442 or 642 as a carry firearm in the near future.

* Note/question on snubbies: I was told barrel length affects VELOCITY, not accuracy &#8212; anyone care to confirm/refute or elaborate on this?


----------



## KenpoTex (Jul 16, 2009)

Barrel length does affect velocity.  A weapon with a shorter barrel will not generate as much velocity as the same weapon with a longer barrel since there is less time for the bullet to be "pushed" by the burning gases--all the propellant has not been used to push the bullet because it's not in the barrel long enough.

As far as accuracy, a weapon with a longer barrel will be _easier_ to shoot well due to the longer sight-radius (distance between the front and rear sights).  Errors in alignment will be magnified by the shorter barrel/sight-radius.

Snubbies are difficult to shoot well due to the short sight-radius, [usually] crappy sights, high levels of felt recoil (due to the light weight of the gun and little real-estate to "put meat on the gun"), and the often long/heavy trigger pull.
While snubbies do have a role, I generally recommend a compact or sub-compact auto for day-to-day concealed-carry.  Something like the Glock 26 or 27 is going to be much easier to shoot, has twice the capacity, better sights, much quicker reloads, etc.


----------



## Deaf Smith (Jul 16, 2009)

> While snubbies do have a role, I generally recommend a compact or sub-compact auto for day-to-day concealed-carry. Something like the Glock 26 or 27 is going to be much easier to shoot, has twice the capacity, better sights, much quicker reloads, etc


 
I agree. My two main carry guns are a Glock 27 and Smith 642. When wearing shorts & t-shirt, the J .38 in an appendix holster just disappears. You can bend over and pick up a dime and no one is the wiser. BUT, when push comes to shove, the Glock 27 is way better a gun.

So in the cooler days, I pack the 27, in the super hot Texas summer, I pack the 642 and the 27 is in the car console.

But if I lived near the Canadian border, where it's cooler, the Glock 27.. or a Glock 19/23/32 is the way to go.

Deaf


----------



## Deaf Smith (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh, and guys, I came across a Charter Arms Pather Finder .22, 3 inch barrel, mint, old model made in Stratford, Conn. The old gent wants $190 bucks (plus tax.)

Now that little six shot .22 is a good starter gun if revolvers are your game.

I just might get it to!

Deaf


----------



## K831 (Jul 17, 2009)

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but many popular handguns for SD have .22 kits available. 

For example, my wife and I both have a CZ P-01 for CC. We chose the gun based on caliber (9mm) platform (DA/SA, Decocker) and ergonomics (Fit in the hand, trigger reach, trigger pull etc) and it was a gun BOTH of us like and can use (ammo compatibility in the house, mag compatibility, holster compatibility etc). We have the CZ kadet kit for them. This allows us to shoot .22 rounds out of our CZ's. Doubles as a "starter gun" while allowing cheap practice with what will be your main SD platform. 

Of course, I have many other firearms, but the CZ's are used as the main SD pistols for the reasons stated above. Other makers offer .22 kits as well, so while a "noob" you can decide on a gun you like very much for SD and pick up a .22 kit for it.


----------



## KenpoTex (Jul 17, 2009)

Conversion kits are a great asset.  A friend of mine has an Advantage Arms kit for the Glock that we use a lot during our training sessions.  Other companies like Ciener make them for 1911's and AR-15's, and Kimber makes their own for their pistols.


----------



## Deaf Smith (Jul 17, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> Conversion kits are a great asset. A friend of mine has an Advantage Arms kit for the Glock that we use a lot during our training sessions. Other companies like Ciener make them for 1911's and AR-15's, and Kimber makes their own for their pistols.


 
And the neat thing is, if you get a .40 or .357 Sig Glock, you can get the factory OEM Glock barrel for the other cartridge (that is, if you have a .40, you can get the .357 Sig barrel and vice-versa.) The .40 or .357 Sig mags work with the other round as actually they are the same mags with just the markings different.

And from Lone Wolf a 9mm barrel made for the .40/.357 Sig drops right in. All you need is a 9mm magazine and you have a 9mm! I have a friend who is a Lumis armored car guard and he has his Glock 22, .40, with a 9mm barrel. Works fine.

And yes, an AACK .22 unit for the Glock. That makes four guns in one! .40 S&W, .357 Sig, 9x19, and .22 lr.

A neat idea.

Deaf


----------

