# The risks hidden in Seiza...



## charyuop (Nov 28, 2006)

I must be the first and only one who gets hurt doing seiza...

2 weeks ago I was leaving the mat to Sensei for his demonstration and rushed to a seiza position. While turning back to face him and lowering to my knees I slipped and fell with all the body weight on my knees. I felt a little pain just above the groin, but kinda ingored it. Since last week we had a half week class I used the time off resting and recovering from the injury. The pain was completely gone till yesterday, first class. At the rolling part the pain came back pretty sharp.
Today I will try to fix an appointment with my doctor...with my luck it will be something lie hernia which will keep me away from training months...sigh...


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 28, 2006)

charyuop said:


> I must be the first and only one who gets hurt doing seiza...
> 
> 2 weeks ago I was leaving the mat to Sensei for his demonstration and rushed to a seiza position. While turning back to face him and lowering to my knees I slipped and fell with all the body weight on my knees. I felt a little pain just above the groin, but kinda ingored it. Since last week we had a half week class I used the time off resting and recovering from the injury. The pain was completely gone till yesterday, first class. At the rolling part the pain came back pretty sharp.
> Today I will try to fix an appointment with my doctor...with my luck it will be something lie hernia which will keep me away from training months...sigh...


 
Sorry to hear about that.  Hopefully it will be minor and you will be back to training regularly in no time.  When going in and out of seiza always try and relax and use proper body mechanics.  I have bothered my knees on a couple of occasions when I moved in a less than fluid manner.  Fortunately it has been awhile (10 years or so) and I seem to have corrected this.  Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## theletch1 (Nov 28, 2006)

Ouch!  Sorry to hear about your injury but I can assure you that you're not the first (nor the last) to get injured simply by moving into seiza.  I have seen some of the freakiest accidents and injuries in my time in the dojo.  Hopefully, your doc will tell you that it's simply a pulled muscle and you'll be back on the mat in no time.  Keep us posted and good luck.


----------



## charyuop (Nov 29, 2006)

Well doctor said it is not Hernia. The only hernia that presents like this is femoral hernia, which he thinks it is not.
He assumed I did something to my abdominal muscle and that will require around 4 weeks to heal....longer if I keep practicing Aikido. Of course I will not stop the practices, at most I will ask Sensei if he can let me skip the ukemi exercises in the beginning of the class since ukemi uses mostly abdominal muscles.


----------



## Mike Hamer (Nov 30, 2006)

The only problem I ever have with seiza is after sitting for a long times, my toes are really stiff and sore, but it usually go's away shortly after I stand.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 30, 2006)

Hey Mike glad to see you here.  Go and introduce yourself over in the meet and greet when you get a chance.


----------



## morph4me (Nov 30, 2006)

Mike Hamer said:


> The only problem I ever have with seiza is after sitting for a long times, my toes are really stiff and sore, but it usually go's away shortly after I stand.


 
My knee's usually don't want to work for awhile after I've been in seiza for a long time.


----------



## theletch1 (Dec 1, 2006)

morph4me said:


> My knee's usually don't want to work for awhile after I've been in seiza for a long time.


Mine either but isn't that the traditionally held view of why the japanese sat that way in a formal situation?  Makes it harder to attack the person you're visiting if your legs won't work well for a second or two.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Dec 1, 2006)

I have no problem with Seiza, but then I can't sit in Seiza therefore I have no problem with it. However if I did sit (properly) in Seiza I would likely need a trip to the Emergency room.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 1, 2006)

I really do not get bothered at all when sitting in seiza.  As a matter of fact I sit in seiza when folding the laundry and I find that it keeps my back straight and not bothered.  I have though on a couple of occasions moved in a herky/jerky manner and bothered my knee.  However that was a long, long time ago.  I will say this the more I have practiced and moved from it the less likely it bothers me in anyway. (however I am also pretty flexible overall)

One thing to note is when moving from seiza to standing up is a critical point to make sure that you have good foot,knee, hip and back alignment.  If you do this you will probably not have to many problems.


----------



## Bigshadow (Dec 1, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> One thing to note is when moving from seiza to standing up is a critical point to make sure that you have good foot,knee, hip and back alignment.  If you do this you will probably not have to many problems.




Great advice Brian!   I believe this also applies to moving from standing to seiza.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 1, 2006)

Bigshadow said:


> Great advice Brian!  I believe this also applies to moving from standing to seiza.


 
Hey Dave,

It definately does.


----------



## howard (Dec 1, 2006)

Seiza has never bothered my knees while I'm seated it it, but like some have said, they stiffen up and don't cooperate that well when it's time to stand, if you've been seated for a while.

I agree with the comments about keeping good posture when moving into and out of seiza.  We do that a lot in our sword training.  We always aim to keep the back straight.


----------



## theletch1 (Dec 2, 2006)

My wifes' nephew has MS and generally sits in the floor in a seiza posture.  The problem is that he can't sit in a proper seiza with his calf under his thigh.  He winds up sitting with his calf and foot outside the line of his upper leg and this puts a lot of strain on the knees.  His legs are still amazingly flexible but I'm waiting for the day that he moves wrong in his modified seiza and blows a knee out.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 2, 2006)

theletch1 said:


> My wifes' nephew has MS and generally sits in the floor in a seiza posture. The problem is that he can't sit in a proper seiza with his calf under his thigh. He winds up sitting with his calf and foot outside the line of his upper leg and this puts a lot of strain on the knees. His legs are still amazingly flexible but I'm waiting for the day that he moves wrong in his modified seiza and blows a knee out.


 
That is tough and you are right that has to put alot of stress on his knees.  Let us hope that he is never seriously bothered by it.


----------



## zDom (Dec 2, 2006)

Youch. Sorry to hear you are having to rehab an injury...




Brian R. VanCise said:


> One thing to note is when moving from seiza to standing up is a critical point to make sure that you have good foot,knee, hip and back alignment.  If you do this you will probably not have to many problems.



I agree this stuff is very important: being mindful and deliberate in movements.

For example, I've heard insurance representatives say while advising client agencies on how to keep claims low that most (or was it very many?) work-related injuries are from people getting out of vehicles.

Accordingly, I try to be very mindful and deliberate in properly in this daily mundane activity.


----------



## fnorfurfoot (Dec 2, 2006)

I cannot sit in seiza for more than fifteen or twenty minutes.  If I go longer than that, my legs fall asleep.  During my last belt promotion in GoJu, my instructor had us sit in seiza while he talked at length about his past karate experiences and life in general.  Then he went down the line, saying nice words about each individual who was ranking.  I was the last down the line.  The whole process took somewhere around 45 minutes to an hour.  I was unable to stand for ten minutes.  My legs were like rubber.  I couldn't put any weight on them.  It was horrible.


----------

