# "On the Mat..." Week One: Position Recognition



## True2Kenpo (May 14, 2004)

Fellow Kenpoists,

Greetings from Pittsburgh! I just would like to announce that the first "On the Mat..." clip has been posted at-

http://www.unitedparkerskenpo.com/Onthemat.html

Or

http://www.unitedparkerskenpo.com/files/On_the_Mat_Session_0001_Position_Recognition_Dial_Up.wmv

I hope you enjoy this week's topic. Good journey!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh

Parker/ Planas Lineage


----------



## michaeledward (May 14, 2004)

That's a nice little lesson. Thanks for posting.


----------



## sumdumguy (May 15, 2004)

Ok, cool video and great Idea. 
     Now let's talk about zone cancellation through the proper use of our Kenpo tools within the techniques. Mostly with "Squatting Sacrifice". Leverage (the leg takedown) used properly will not allow your opponent the opportunity to execute that kick. This is similar to a problem I have seen many many times with "Spiraling twig" different tech's to be sure but the same problem none the less. Before anybody decides to jump me about My not having the kahonas to put myself on video on the net, rest assured I had video on the net in 1994 and no one seemed to really care. hmmmm
      I like the video, don't get me wrong, I like the concept that this particular clip is showing, just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.
     Ok, let' er rip.
 :asian:


----------



## Bill Lear (May 15, 2004)

Okay... Here's the way that I know Squatting Sacrifice (Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just pointing out the obvious problem with the way this technique was executed by Mr. Ryer in this instance).

*Squatting Sacrifice* (Rear bear hug-arms free)

1. Standing naturally, with your opponent applying a rear bear hug (arms free), step with your right foot toward 3 o'clock into a horse stance (facing 12 o'clock), as both of your elbows strike down onto your opponent's forearms. (This should loosen his grasp.)

2. Bending forward, squat on your opponent's right knee as you grab your opponent's right ankle with both hands, and pulling up, force him down onto his back. The pulling and squatting could cause your opponent's knee to break because of the counter force prior to the fall. *As your opponent falls, shift into a concave stance to prevent an Angle of Entry into your groin.*

3. Immeadiately twist your opponent's right ankle clockwise (pushing down on your opponent's toes with your left heel palm, and pulling up on his ankle with the fingers and palm of your right hand). Using the residual torque of the above action, have your right leg circle clockwise (preferably raking across your opponent's face in the process), and plant your right foot toward 7:30 into a right reverse close kneel stance.

4. Pivot into a right forward bow (facing 6:00) while completing the twisting of your opponent's right ankle. (This should know force your opponent onto his stomach.)

5. While still maintaining the grab on your opponent's right ankle with your right hand, step forward with your left foot (toward 4:30) into a left close kneel stance (paralleling the left side of your opponent's body), and have your left hand grab your opponent's left wrist.

6. Support your weight on your left leg, as you **** your right leg high.

7. Pull up with both of your arms, as your right foot stomps to the lower spine of your opponent. (This could cause a spinal break.)

8. Execute a right front crossover, sweeping your opponent's left arm down, and cover out twice toward 4:30.


Where is the *CONCAVE STANCE* that prevents the attacker from kicking Mr. Ryer in the man-berries?

Other than the ommission of the concave stance... the video wasn't all that bad.

:uhyeah:


----------



## Dark Kenpo Lord (May 15, 2004)

I thought this was a pretty good clip of not only position recognition but  shows the deficiencies when a technique isn't done effectively and how they can be easily reversed using PR principles.

Dark Lord


----------



## pete (May 15, 2004)

Mr Ryer, 

your clip was an excellent example of how the internet can be used to share individual insight into otherwise common material.  your presentation was flawless and your message succinct.  you should be commended!  

consider this my way of "lengthening your line".... email to follow.

pete.


----------



## Brenwulv (May 15, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> 2. Bending forward, squat on your opponent's right knee as you grab your opponent's right ankle with both hands, and pulling up, force him down onto his back. The pulling and squatting could cause your opponent's knee to break because of the counter force prior to the fall. *As your opponent falls, shift into a concave stance to prevent an Angle of Entry into your groin.*
> 
> 
> Where is the *CONCAVE STANCE* that prevents the attacker from kicking Mr. Ryer in the man-berries?



Ok, you squat down on the knee and use that as a lever to take them down. Wouldn't your two hands and keeping the leg braced against yourself help prevent that? (Can't think of a better way to say it, kind of contouring the leg at the knee with your tailbone to have contact until they hit)

I agree keeping from getting kicked in the groin is a good thing. Just having trouble visualizing how you mean it in this case.
 :asian: 

Joel


----------



## Bill Lear (May 16, 2004)

Brenwulv said:
			
		

> Ok, you squat down on the knee and use that as a lever to take them down. Wouldn't your two hands and keeping the leg braced against yourself help prevent that? (Can't think of a better way to say it, kind of contouring the leg at the knee with your tailbone to have contact until they hit)
> 
> I agree keeping from getting kicked in the groin is a good thing. Just having trouble visualizing how you mean it in this case.
> :asian:
> ...



Many people think the line of entry to the groin is from underneath, it could be, but your opponent could also cause injury to your groin with his right foot by retracting his right leg as he simultaneously kicks you off with his left.

It is important, however, to point out that your opponent can not kick you off of his leg if you execute the concave stance correctly. If he were to try, it would only assist in causing him further injury.


----------



## TwistofFat (May 16, 2004)

Mr. Ryer,
Video looks great and concept is sound.  I am a big fan of you and your team after exchanging some bruises at Cappi's camps in Lansdale.  I agree with the gent from Mr Tatum's school on the cancave but I have always had a hard time seeing it (literally from the side) since it is transatory and if your lock on that leg (like Dance of Death), use your tailbone, rearend and inside of your thigh with a harcore lock (ukes toes down), spin and knock that left leg out...it seems to work.  The "man-berries" strike comes from the laterial removal but a full concave (a la From 4, Leap of Death, et al) doesn't suit my larger frame.

Sincerely - Glenn.
NC (but once upon a time spend 32 years in Pittsburgh)


----------



## Brenwulv (May 16, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Many people think the line of entry to the groin is from underneath, it could be, but your opponent could also cause injury to your groin with his right foot by retracting his right leg as he simultaneously kicks you off with his left.
> 
> It is important, however, to point out that your opponent can not kick you off of his leg if you execute the concave stance correctly. If he were to try, it would only assist in causing him further injury.




Okay, I can see that line of entry. Thank you for clarifying that.

Now, I don't see how the concave will have any effect on someone not being able to drive a foot through my tailbone, or knee, and knock me off them. Especially if I pause for any significant length.

If it's just a transitory stance as per your description of the tech (as I read it), then the person has no real way to kick you in the first place.

You are already settling their weight and taking their base, the left leg has no way to execute a kick as they fall, especially one to drive you away from them. Once they land, the kick, if it's there, should be taken away by the hook/heel kick.

In that case, if you keep the leg tight to yourself as you pull them down, why the need for the concave?

 :asian: 
Joel


----------



## Bill Lear (May 17, 2004)

Brenwulv said:
			
		

> Okay, I can see that line of entry. Thank you for clarifying that.
> 
> Now, I don't see how the concave will have any effect on someone not being able to drive a foot through my tailbone, or knee, and knock me off them. Especially if I pause for any significant length.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... My point is that he can still kick you with the other leg, but if he does it will hurt him a hell of a lot more than it will hurt you.

Good discussion guys. Mr Ryer's video as inspired a bit of learning here and I look forward to watching his next one. This internet video thing is a learning experience for everyone, and I enjoy it. 

:asian:


----------



## True2Kenpo (May 17, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Good discussion guys. Mr Ryer's video as inspired a bit of learning here and I look forward to watching his next one. This internet video thing is a learning experience for everyone, and I enjoy it. :



Thank you sir! :asian: 

I have learned as well.  Good journey.

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer


----------



## kenpoangel (May 17, 2004)

Hi Mr. Ryer,

I watched the video today for the first time and I just came on to say congratulations on doing what you're doing.

After all the controversy that's come up over the TOWs, I commend you for breaking out there and putting your "butt on the line".  

With all the naysayers out there making their comments about the TOWs (not to mention yours now  :uhyeah: ), it takes a special person to come out and give their knowledge the way you have.  The fact that you are "so young" (compared to me...everyone is  :idunno: ) also says alot and I, for one, applaud you for having the testicular fortitude to put your stuff out there and show us what you got.

From where I sit...it's looking damned good.

Take care and continued success on your road to Kenpo fruition,

Angela


----------



## Brenwulv (May 17, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> It is important, however, to point out that your opponent can not kick you off of his leg if you execute the concave stance correctly. If he were to try, it would only assist in causing him further injury.






			
				Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Hmmm... My point is that he can still kick you with the other leg, but if he does it will hurt him a hell of a lot more than it will hurt you.



Okay, you said can't, and I thought you meant can't at all. Guess you meant can't without further injury.

Still don't see it as a necessity in this tech, but just one more thing to play with and explore... uh... on the mat 


Joel


----------



## Ceicei (May 17, 2004)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Good discussion guys. Mr Ryer's video as inspired a bit of learning here and I look forward to watching his next one. This internet video thing is a learning experience for everyone, and I enjoy it.
> 
> :asian:


I have to agree with Bill Lear.  I benefitted a lot from Mr. Ryder's video.  It had given me quite some thought about the pros/cons of that technique and had opened my eyes on how things can happen when doing manipulations in different ways.

- Ceicei


----------

