# Wall Bag Filler & Hanging



## Hong Kong Pooey (Aug 31, 2014)

My Si-Hing said to use rice, do you guys agree or have any other suggestions?

I've heard some people prefer beans but not sure why, or even if I can buy them in sufficient quantity from my local supermarket.

Second point is that I live in a block of 8 flats and if I just bang my hand against the bare wall where I'm going to hang it it reverberates through the whole building, so to spare my neighbours I thought I might put a pillow or 2 behind it to try and lessen the noise.

Any reasons why I shouldn't?

Thanks in advance!


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## Kwan Sau (Aug 31, 2014)

rice or mung beans...don't think it matters much so long as this phase of beginner wall bag training has a lot of "give" to it. You should only be using rice/beans/whatever for a few months before you'll be ready to move on.
Pillow behind it? Not recommended...but you are in a unique situation so you may have no choice! Depending on how the walls are constructed, you may be able to span several vertical uprights with a horizontal board...thus lessening the impact by dispersing it over a larger area. You could also create a "spacer" between the board mounted to the wall, and the board which is hanging your wall bag. 
Good luck dude.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Aug 31, 2014)

Kwan Sau said:


> rice or mung beans...don't think it matters much so long as this phase of beginner wall bag training has a lot of "give" to it. You should only be using rice/beans/whatever for a few months before you'll be ready to move on.
> Pillow behind it? Not recommended...but you are in a unique situation so you may have no choice! Depending on how the walls are constructed, you may be able to span several vertical uprights with a horizontal board...thus lessening the impact by dispersing it over a larger area. You could also create a "spacer" between the board mounted to the wall, and the board which is hanging your wall bag.
> Good luck dude.



Can you expand on why the pillow is not recommended? I know it's not ideal but what are the potential drawbacks?

I should also have said that I can't really have anything too elaborate behind it firstly because of space, but more importantly it's not my flat so I need to minimise the amount and size of the holes I put in the wall.

Cheers!


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## Marnetmar (Aug 31, 2014)

I personally like to use sand as it has a little bit of give but not too much. Just make sure no moisture gets into it.


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## Transk53 (Aug 31, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Can you expand on why the pillow is not recommended? I know it's not ideal but what are the potential drawbacks?
> 
> I should also have said that I can't really have anything too elaborate behind it firstly because of space, but more importantly it's not my flat so I need to minimise the amount and size of the holes I put in the wall.
> 
> Cheers!



I thought about doing the same thing a while ago. I reasoned that the sound waves will concentrate into the pillow(s). Vibrations going outwards would spread the load as it were. The pillow would turn the waves into a lump and sound like a bass driver. That is how I saw it anyways. As Kwan Sau with the spacer, but maybe with a sound proofed tile wedged in there.


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## Kwan Sau (Aug 31, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Can you expand on why the pillow is not recommended? I know it's not ideal but what are the potential drawbacks?



Well, I suppose, like most things in WC, stuff may be very lineage specific. However, most newer trainees think that wall bag training is all about the fist, conditioning the skin and knuckles etc. While these things may be true; wall bag training is mostly about training your horse. When your fist impacts the wall bag there is a little give to it. With your setup, there will be two distinct stages of "give" (i.e. rice and pillow instead of rice and hard surface of wall material) so your horse may never "feel" what it is supposed to feel. 
Wow, I guess this is kind of difficult to put into words on a forum. Hopefully you can get an idea of what I'm trying to say(?).  
There are also alternatives to wall mounts such as a stand-alone post/beam concept with wheel casters that you lock into position when training and/or add lots of weight to the device to minimize movement when you punch your wallbag hanging from it. Yet another idea is to use door-frames. Do some research and I bet you'll find a solution that is better than the pillow idea.


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## mook jong man (Aug 31, 2014)

Don't think a pillows going to do much actually.
Why not buy a few jigsaw mats , glue them together and put that on the wall behind the wall bag .
I used mung beans as a filler in the past , they work great and you can get them cheap from Indian grocery stores.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Aug 31, 2014)

Kwan Sau said:


> Well, I suppose, like most things in WC, stuff may be very lineage specific. However, most newer trainees think that wall bag training is all about the fist, conditioning the skin and knuckles etc. While these things may be true; wall bag training is mostly about training your horse. When your fist impacts the wall bag there is a little give to it. With your setup, there will be two distinct stages of "give" (i.e. rice and pillow instead of rice and hard surface of wall material) so your horse may never "feel" what it is supposed to feel.
> Wow, I guess this is kind of difficult to put into words on a forum. Hopefully you can get an idea of what I'm trying to say(?).



Thanks, I thought there may be some reason(s) that I didn't know about.

To be honest my options are very limited as long as I'm living here, it will either be up against the bare wall or with something very light/simple behind it to lessen the noise.


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## mook jong man (Aug 31, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Thanks, I thought there may be some reason(s) that I didn't know about.
> 
> To be honest my options are very limited as long as I'm living here, it will either be up against the bare wall or with something very light/simple behind it to lessen the noise.



You have a tree outside somewhere , put a couple of nails in to hang it up , then take it back inside when your finished.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Aug 31, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> You have a tree outside somewhere , put a couple of nails in to hang it up , then take it back inside when your finished.



Who said I have tree?

The local parks do, but tbh the chances of me going and hitting a tree in a public park in London are slim at best!

It has been suggested to me before but I just don't fancy it. It becomes too much of an expedition to be convenient, and you'd have to expect to have to deal with mouthy youths. Call me a big girl's blouse if you like, but I'm not ready for that yet!


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## mook jong man (Aug 31, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Who said I have tree?
> 
> The local parks do, but tbh the chances of me going and hitting a tree in a public park in London are slim at best!
> 
> It has been suggested to me before but I just don't fancy it. It becomes too much of an expedition to be convenient, and you'd have to expect to have to deal with mouthy youths. Call me a big girl's blouse if you like, but I'm not ready for that yet!



Well tie one of the mouthy youths to a tree and hit them instead.


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## Danny T (Aug 31, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Well tie one of the mouthy youths to a tree and hit them instead.



This is a thought however the youth would probably make quite a bit of noise; at least for the first several punches. LOL.

I have (6) 3 tier wall bags in my school with different material in them; 2 have chickpeas, 2 have rice, and 2 have sand. (different densities) Beginners start with the chickpeas as these bags are not as dense and is great to begin the tempering of their fist. Level II is the rice that is more dense and takes the student to a much higher level of tempering. 3rd level is the sand which is much more dense than the rice.

If noise was a concern I'd do as Mook and use a couple of the puzzle mats or something similar, maybe close cell foam.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 31, 2014)

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> I've heard some people prefer beans but not sure why,


The Mung bean is cold in nature. When your hand hit on your bag, you will create some heat, the cold in nature Mung bean can reduce that heat. Other cold in nature food are watermelon, carb, ...


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## mook jong man (Aug 31, 2014)

If he's got some carpentry skills he might be able to make a type of free standing frame out of wood to mount the wall bag on , with a board as a platform to stand on to keep it weighted down.
Have it all bolted together so you can take it all apart when you move.

Reminds me a bit of some footage of my late Sifu from the 70's , I didn't take much notice before when I watched it , but he's got a wooden dummy with some boards mounted on the side for kicking.
It looks like it's on wheels so it can move , bit of a multipurpose dummy as it were.
But I think for dummy mode you would want wheels on it that lock.
Anyone built something like that ?
I reckon its a good idea , I suppose you could just kick the dummy itself , but if you are kicking full bore you might end up breaking the rails.

It's at 1:56 in the clip.

[video=youtube_share;9CFayWM-OPc]http://youtu.be/9CFayWM-OPc[/video]


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## Kwan Sau (Aug 31, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Anyone built something like that ?



Never built one but there was one in the kwoon when I was training there. It was great. Heavy, mobile, you could punch, palm, kick, etc and it would budge a little. We used to be required to do laps up and down the length of the kwoon floor. Very worthwhile device in my opinion.


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## KPM (Aug 31, 2014)

I agree with Kwan Sau that one of the purposes of hitting the wall bag is to help develop stance and structure.  You need something solid to hit so that you learn to handle the force bounced back at you.  A pillow will negate that training effect.  Putting puzzle mats behind the bag to muffle the noise probably won't placate the neighbors.  Force is still doing to be sent in to the wall causing vibration and a "thumping" that they won't like.  I agree with Mook that your best bet is to find someplace outside to hang up a bag and then take it back in when you are done.  It doesn't have to be a tree.  Maybe there is a concrete pillow on your building in a quiet place in the back.  I've use just plain old dried black beans.  I don't think there is anything magical about what you use as long as you have a something solid with a bit of "give" to strike.


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## ST1Doppelganger (Sep 1, 2014)

I used Mung Beans in my wall bag and it was much better then rice or other bean fillers ive seen used in other peoples bag. 

It produces much less powder in my opinion and the little bit of powder it does produce is suppose to be medicinal. Don't know how but its just what I've heard.


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## mook jong man (Sep 1, 2014)

ST1Doppelganger said:


> I used Mung Beans in my wall bag and it was much better then rice or other bean fillers ive seen used in other peoples bag.
> 
> It produces much less powder in my opinion and the little bit of powder it does produce is suppose to be medicinal. Don't know how but its just what I've heard.



That's why I always felt so much better after a thousand punches on the wall bag , I was inadvertently snorting Mung Bean powder and getting high.


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## ST1Doppelganger (Sep 1, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> That's why I always felt so much better after a thousand punches on the wall bag , I was inadvertently snorting Mung Bean powder and getting high.



No thats because your using Sprung Beans. 

But seriously I think it was from Leung Tings book and also a Ipman website that suggested mung beans and mentioned their medicinal effect. 

I hated the pinto beans that my CLF school had in their wall bags because those just turn in to powder way to easily and make a dusty mess.


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## mook jong man (Sep 1, 2014)

ST1Doppelganger said:


> No thats because your using Sprung Beans.
> 
> But seriously I think it was from Leung Tings book and also a Ipman website that suggested mung beans and mentioned their medicinal effect.
> 
> I hated the pinto beans that my CLF school had in their wall bags because those just turn in to powder way to easily and make a dusty mess.



I remember reading something about Wong Shun Leung , he apparently had ball bearings in his.
I dunno how that would go , wouldn't they get rusty from all the sweat going into the bag?


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## KPM (Sep 1, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> I remember reading something about Wong Shun Leung , he apparently had ball bearings in his.
> I dunno how that would go , wouldn't they get rusty from all the sweat going into the bag?



If they were stainless steel they shouldn't rust.  If you have vinyl bag rather than canvas they shouldn't get sweaty.  Whatever you do, don't use lead shot!  You could get lead poisoning!  I've heard of using copper BB's.   The problem with any kind of dried bean is that if they get damp they are going to get moldy.  Breathing that is also not good for your health.


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## ST1Doppelganger (Sep 1, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> I remember reading something about Wong Shun Leung , he apparently had ball bearings in his.
> I dunno how that would go , wouldn't they get rusty from all the sweat going into the bag?



I would assume they would and I also prefer the mung bean filled wall bags over any of the other wall bags I've been able to try out. 

I've tried Wall bags that have been filled with rice, pinto beans, rubber pallets & sand but the mung beans still had the best feel for me.


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## Kwan Sau (Sep 1, 2014)

KPM said:


> If they were stainless steel they shouldn't rust.  If you have vinyl bag rather than canvas they shouldn't get sweaty.  Whatever you do, don't use lead shot!  You could get lead poisoning!  I've heard of using copper BB's.   The problem with any kind of dried bean is that if they get damp they are going to get moldy.  Breathing that is also not good for your health.



KPM offers sage advice here Gents... Be wary of what you put in your wall bags and/or iron palm training bags etc!!!
 On a side note: stainless steel spheres cost quite a bit when you consider how many are needed to fill up a standard size bag.   almost broke my wallet that day


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## donnaTKD (Sep 1, 2014)

i too have more or less the same problem 

my landlord refused to allow me to put holes in the wall cos of them being stud ones so i had to use a freestanding frame that can collapse and be put away is use an extra 40kg on the frame to keep the frame still 

the rdx bag that i've got weighs around 75lbs and it's full of recycled fabric material so if i want to make it denser then i can add my old clothes to it and repack it too make it even more dense 

good luck


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 1, 2014)

When I was young, I used 100% copper BB's in my bag. After I found out some arthritis had developed in my finger joints, I start to use 50% copper BB's and 50% plastic bean (or Mung bean).


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## mook jong man (Sep 1, 2014)

donnaTKD said:


> i too have more or less the same problem
> 
> my landlord refused to allow me to put holes in the wall cos of them being stud ones so i had to use a freestanding frame that can collapse and be put away is use an extra 40kg on the frame to keep the frame still
> 
> ...



Putting clothes in your heavy bag works well , Its just that they look so terrible when you take them out to put back on again.
It's hard to look all suave and man about town when one is getting about in an extremely wrinkled Armani suit don't you think?


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## donnaTKD (Sep 2, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Putting clothes in your heavy bag works well , Its just that they look so terrible when you take them out to put back on again.
> It's hard to look all suave and man about town when one is getting about in an extremely wrinkled Armani suit don't you think?



Loving that idea 

was thinking more along the lines of noise and vibration dissipation cos the clothes / rags etc..... would absorb a lot of that and if you hang it on one of those freestanding frames then you'd be able to train indoors where it's warm and comfy 

also what are you gunna do come winter ????? and you have to go outside where it's minus tuk knows whaat and you're nuts are frozen solid - hardly a good way to train is it cos you wouldn't get quality training without the use of a lot of deep heat


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## mook jong man (Sep 2, 2014)

donnaTKD said:


> Loving that idea
> 
> was thinking more along the lines of noise and vibration dissipation cos the clothes / rags etc..... would absorb a lot of that and if you hang it on one of those freestanding frames then you'd be able to train indoors where it's warm and comfy
> 
> also what are you gunna do come winter ????? and you have to go outside where it's minus tuk knows whaat and you're nuts are frozen solid - hardly a good way to train is it cos you wouldn't get quality training without the use of a lot of deep heat



Wouldn't of thought frozen nuts would be too much of an issue for you Donna.


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## donnaTKD (Sep 2, 2014)

it's not my welfare that we're debating though is it 

although i've heard that blue **** can be a major distraction in winter


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## Cephalopod (Sep 2, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> I remember reading something about Wong Shun Leung , he apparently had ball bearings in his.
> I dunno how that would go , wouldn't they get rusty from all the sweat going into the bag?



The bag in my club is filled with 1/4" SS ball bearings. Although they are, of course, very hard, the nice thing is that they flow past each other on impact because of the low friction between balls. Thus the bag actually has a fair bit of give to it.

To each his own of course, but after using this bag, I'm never going back to rice and beans 

There is also a piece of very thick but very supply leather sewed across the striking surface of the canvas bag. This results in a bag that holds up to a lot of wear and tear. The canvas doesn't chafe through and the contents don't get pulverized.


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## mook jong man (Sep 2, 2014)

Cephalopod said:


> The bag in my club is filled with 1/4" SS ball bearings. Although they are, of course, very hard, the nice thing is that they flow past each other on impact because of the low friction between balls. Thus the bag actually has a fair bit of give to it.
> 
> To each his own of course, but after using this bag, I'm never going back to rice and beans
> 
> There is also a piece of very thick but very supply leather sewed across the striking surface of the canvas bag. This results in a bag that holds up to a lot of wear and tear. The canvas doesn't chafe through and the contents don't get pulverized.



You said low friction between the balls ..ha ha snicker, snicker.

Sorry , for a  moment there I think I just may have been possessed by the spirit of a teenage boy.
My apologies.
But seriously , you bring up a very good point how does the friction coefficient of the material in the wall bag change the "feel'' when you hit it.
Maybe some type of plastic pellets could also be an option , something like nylon would be pretty frictionless I imagine.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 2, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> You said low friction between the balls ..ha ha snicker, snicker.
> 
> Sorry , for a  moment there I think I just may have been possessed by the spirit of a teenage boy.
> My apologies.



Lol, have you been snorting the mung been powder again?


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## Cephalopod (Sep 2, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> You said low friction between the balls ..ha ha snicker, snicker.
> 
> Sorry , for a  moment there I think I just may have been possessed by the spirit of a teenage boy.
> My apologies.



Yeah, my last foray into adolescence got me dryly shunned so I won't continue down that road.
tempting tho it may be :EG:



mook jong man said:


> But seriously , you bring up a very good point how does the friction coefficient of the material in the wall bag change the "feel'' when you hit it.
> Maybe some type of plastic pellets could also be an option , something like nylon would be pretty frictionless I imagine.



Simply put, rice and beans will compact when hit, especially when they get a bit worn down and there is dust in the bag, and the fist will come to a jarring halt.
 Ball bearings will displace the bearings behind and around the impact area and allow the fist to sink deeper into the target. You get a gentler decelleration of the punch. The difference is slight but noticeable.

IMO you get a good toughening impact to the knuckles but with less wear and tear to the elbows.

I don't know how plastic would perform, but intuitively I believe it would not give the way that bearings do. Nylon is an elastic material and will flow over time.
 It also won't toughen your knuckles up much. Might as well use grapes. Have your students make your wine.


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## Thunder Foot (Sep 7, 2014)

I personally use bb's or buckshot. You can purchase plastic bb's at your nearest craft store, or Walmart for that matter. i dont recommend buckshot unless you have been practicing the wall bag for a decent amount of time.

[edit]: i wouldn't recommend organic materials as they break down over time.


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## wtxs (Sep 9, 2014)

Thunder Foot said:


> I personally use bb's or buckshot. You can purchase plastic bb's at your nearest craft store, or Walmart for that matter. i dont recommend buckshot unless you have been practicing the wall bag for a decent amount of time.
> 
> [edit]: i wouldn't recommend organic materials as they break down over time.



Normally, "buckshot" and it smaller cousins are made of lead, long term health hazard down the road, I personally would not use them.


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## Thunder Foot (Sep 9, 2014)

Right, definitely stay away from lead. However there are other metals available in buckshot and bb form like iron among others.


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Oct 1, 2014)

Just for the sake of posterity, I went for rice as the filler in the end due to availability and price, and a blanket behind rather than a pillow.

It takes a lot more rice than I first thought, but seems to work just fine.

The blanket is to protect the wall and the bag. Not sure how much it deadens the sound, the neighbours haven't complained yet but I'm only doing a few minutes at a time until the skin on my knuckles toughens up. 

Or maybe I'm just not hitting it hard enough


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