# Classical guitar fans, behold this interpretation of The Mysterious Barricades...



## exile (Jan 29, 2008)

If you're a devotée of classical guitar, and open-minded enough to seek out transcriptions for the instrument of pieces first composed for keyboard, then you really need to see/hear Chris Navin's interpretation of Couperin's _The Mysterious Barricades_for my money, the single greatest short composition ever created for the harpsichord, but done on a modern guitar so brilliantly that it's hard to find adjectives strong enough to say how good it is. 

In my mind, Navin's interpretation is now the gold standard for this incredibly deep and haunting gift to us from the late 17th/early 18th c. Judge for yourselves...


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## Makalakumu (Jan 29, 2008)

This is a lot like MA.  You spend a lot of time learning something and most people do not understand what you are doing.  Sad isn't it?


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## MA-Caver (Jan 29, 2008)

I've a long time friend who has studied Classical Guitar for going on 15 years. He's good and through him I've meet Julian Breem (?) and several other noteworthy (classical) guitarists. I sent him the link and asked his professional opinion. 
What I think? Well it's good, very good and watching him play I can see how it's also a difficult piece to do as well. Classical guitar to my understanding is radically different than rock/folk/acoustic guitar in the method it's played and how it's done altogether. 
ZOOM right over my head on the technicalities of it all... but hey... it sounds pretty and I reckon that's what counts. 

Say boah can yuh do dat on a ban-jo?


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow, that was gorgeous.  I have to admit, I'm a bit partial to the passion in the music from the Spanish composers.   Wish I could hear what he could do with a Villa-Lobos piece or...better yet...with _La Cumparsita._


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## agemechanic03 (Jan 30, 2008)

I give that guy a  lot of credit. I do not play guitar at all, but I am a trombonist and love classical music. But his hands to be stretched out like they were at points, man, I would be HURTING after a while. It was really good. Needs some tweaking, but of course, no matter our rank in the MA's, we will always need tweaking too.


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## donna (Jan 30, 2008)

That was lovely, thanks for the link


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2008)

Sadly, works Net Nannie wont let me at the file to listen to it but the concept sounds very interesting.  I'm a Jazz/Blues player myself so the idea of transcritping one instrument to another is not anathema to me - I did it with Close Encounters of the Third Kind once a couple of decades ago :lol:.


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## harlan (Jan 30, 2008)

Lovely. I saw Andres Segovia in a small concert setting when I was a child, and it was a pivotal experience. Time to turn of the classical lute and add some guitar to the collection.

Thanks for the kick. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efHwnFAkuA&mode=related&search=


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## exile (Jan 30, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Sadly, works Net Nannie wont let me at the file to listen to it but the concept sounds very interesting.  I'm a Jazz/Blues player myself so the idea of transcritping one instrument to another is not anathema to me - I did it with Close Encounters of the Third Kind once a couple of decades ago :lol:.



I found another vid of the same performancemaybe this will work for you? YouTube may be a bit more accessible...



Carol Kaur said:


> Wow, that was gorgeous.  I have to admit, I'm a bit partial to the passion in the music from the Spanish composers.   Wish I could hear what he could do with a Villa-Lobos piece or...better yet...with _La Cumparsita._



My favorite amongst those chaps is Granados, especially the _Valses Poetiques_. CN has a MySpace site (here) so you might be able to rummage around in it and see if he's recorded any of the great Spanish guitar composers. He sounds like a very interesting guyan Aussie, with an experimental flair. 



harlan said:


> Lovely. I saw Andres Segovia in a small concert setting when I was a child, and it was a pivotal experience. Time to turn of the classical lute and add some guitar to the collection.
> 
> Thanks for the kick.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9efHwnFAkuA&mode=related&search=



My pleasure, harlan, and I envy youI never got to see the incomparable AS, although I did get to hear Julian Bream in NY a few times (his version of the Granados piece was my own 'revelation'). But when I was growing up, Segovia's name was uttered in our house in only the most reverential tone of voice...


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## MA-Caver (Jan 30, 2008)

My buddy in the Classical Guitar world also utters Segovia's name with reverence and awe. :idunno: I teased him one time and asked... "ohh yeah!?... well can he play "Hey You!" by Pink Floyd??" My friend calmly said... "no, he can't... he wouldn't stoop so low to play that piece of trash." :lol: 
Gotta be careful talking music with guys like that.

Glad the editing time did'nt run out before I gotten an e-mail from above friend... here he is on YouTube

[yt]tZmtoJ2ahQA[/yt]


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## exile (Jan 30, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> My buddy in the Classical Guitar world also utters Segovia's name with reverence and awe. :idunno: I teased him one time and asked... "ohh yeah!?... well can he play "Hey You!" by Pink Floyd??" My friend calmly said... *"no, he can't... he wouldn't stoop so low to play that piece of trash."* :lol:
> Gotta be careful talking music with guys like that.



Huffy sort!

My impression is, though, that great classical musicians regard popular music as an interesting source of ideas; certainly Yehudi Menuin, one of the greatest violinists of all time, was like that, and plenty of Romantic era composers actively recruited the popular 'street' music of their time for their compositions (a lot of Brahms' stuff in particular sounds like it was lifted from a klezmer band's repertoire :lol. Or look at the way folk melodies and 'peasant' tunes were used by people like Dvorak, Max Bruch and others of that era... I knew a guy back when, a successful writer, who used to say flatly that writers don't give a damn where they get their ideas from. They have no pretense or even pride, according to him; if they hear something they like and figure they can make use of it, they do. Shakespeare was his favorite example. I think great musicians are the same. 

Who knows _what _direction creative influence can come from? These guys are smart enough not to be fussy...


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## harlan (Jan 30, 2008)

Ma-caver: thanks for sharing the vid. 

Never made a formal study of music, but the few artists I've met (that includes martial artists, graphic, voice, etc.) that were good technicians usually had the ability to seperate ego from a critical analysis of other's works. ('Critical' as in the professional sense.)  If I may generalize, the worst 'diva' personalities seem to go hand in hand with insecurity. 

Some Bream for Exile:






And some Dvorak, sung by Robeson, for me.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2008)

Excellently spoken, sir :tup:.  This disconnect between 'Classical' and 'Popular' is a modern invention - at one time they were one and the same and melodies were melodies, only the arrangements changed in response to the amount of money you had.

My favourite trick with classical guitarists of my aquaintance, who made the mistake of getting too snobby, was to steal the music off the stand in front of them and challenge them to finish the piece :lol:.


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2008)

harlan said:


> Ma-caver: thanks for sharing the vid.
> 
> Never made a formal study of music, but the few artists I've met (that includes martial artists, graphic, voice, etc.) that were good technicians usually had the ability to seperate ego from a critical analysis of other's works. ('Critical' as in the professional sense.)  If I may generalize, the worst 'diva' personalities seem to go hand in hand with insecurity.
> 
> ...




Beautiful clips Harlan.  Thanks so much for sharing them.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2008)

Huzzah!  Got home and got to watch the OP's link (YouTube is likewise banned by the Net Nannie at work ).

What wonderful stuff.

Didn't see the huge stretches that *aged* mentioned (tho' guitar playing _does_ hurt unless you're using really light gauge strings) but nice fluid fingering (ooh er missus !! ).


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Huzzah!  Got home and got to watch the OP's link (YouTube is likewise banned by the Net Nannie at work ).
> 
> What wonderful stuff.
> 
> Didn't see the huge stretches that *aged* mentioned (tho' guitar playing _does_ hurt unless you're using really light gauge strings) but nice fluid fingering (ooh er missus !! ).



Here's another one for you Suk...

Sr. César Amaro playing the most famous tango of all...


[yt]9rfcs9QPRu4[/yt]


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2008)

Excellent stuff, *Carol*, thanks for that.  

I particularly loved the high-end harmonics interweaved with root-end melody lines - that's something I liked to chuck in back in the days when I played four hours a night rather than ten minutes every six months .  It's something that's hard to do precisely but you can make it look really casual (and thus make yourself out to be uber-cool to any guitarists watching ROFL).


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## MA-Caver (Jan 31, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Excellently spoken, sir :tup:.  This disconnect between 'Classical' and 'Popular' is a modern invention - at one time they were one and the same and melodies were melodies, only the arrangements changed in response to the amount of money you had.
> 
> My favourite trick with classical guitarists of my aquaintance, who made the mistake of getting too snobby, was to steal the music off the stand in front of them and challenge them to finish the piece :lol:.



As one who practiced literally for 4 hours a day 7 days a week my buddy (in the vid) could do it... with one that he was well versed in. Newer ones... whell... I dunno. 

Exile, he wasn't that huffy just said that Segovia thing as a joke back because he knew I was joking. He enjoyed rock and roll to an extent. Was able to play Stairway to Heaven complete via classical... sounded neat. 
Of course I had a hard time trying to convince him that Robbie Krieger of the Doors was a trained Flamenco guitarist and that he did play that intro to the song Spanish Caravan. Just couldn't think/see how someone who played that particular piece flawlessly (he could the entire song) would want to waste time with an electric.  Hmm... maybe he IS huffy. :lol:


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## Sukerkin (Jan 31, 2008)

I have to say that I do agree with him to an extent, in that the acoustic has a generally better breadth of emotive timbre (no, not _timber_ ) available for use.  

You can get a greater range of noises out of an electric by plugging in the various effects boxes but I've always preferred to coax expression out of my old Rio Grande EKO than anything else ('till my missus killed it).

You can't beat a bit of Electric Blues tho' .


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## exile (Jan 31, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> My favourite trick with classical guitarists of my aquaintance, who made the mistake of getting too snobby, was to steal the music off the stand in front of them and challenge them to finish the piece :lol:.



Improv used to be the name of the game. Handel and Scarlatti had a series of keyboard duels that people would pay to attend in which one offered a theme, the other came up with some hair-raising variations on it and then the first would take those variations and do mind-bending variations on the variations, and so back and forth they went for a couple of hours... sort of like musical fractals in real time. They made quite a haul that way, I gather. Now _those_ guys knew all about improvisation....


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## Sukerkin (Jan 31, 2008)

Now that'd be an aural adventure .  People have tended to forget as the centuries have gone by that what are now treated as staid, straight-laced, 'establishment' figures were the Bad Boys of Rock in their day :lol:.


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## harlan (Jan 31, 2008)

The original version of 'dueling banjos'? LOL!



exile said:


> Improv used to be the name of the game. Handel and Scarlatti had a series of keyboard duels that people would pay to attend in which one offered a theme, the other came up with some hair-raising variations on it and then the first would take those variations and do mind-bending variations on the variations, and so back and forth they went for a couple of hours... sort of like musical fractals in real time. They made quite a haul that way, I gather. Now _those_ guys knew all about improvisation....



Nice thread, BTW.


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## Langenschwert (Jan 31, 2008)

exile said:


> Improv used to be the name of the game. Handel and Scarlatti had a series of keyboard duels that people would pay to attend in which one offered a theme, the other came up with some hair-raising variations on it and then the first would take those variations and do mind-bending variations on the variations, and so back and forth they went for a couple of hours... sort of like musical fractals in real time. They made quite a haul that way, I gather. Now _those_ guys knew all about improvisation....


 
Indeed.  After Mozart and his contemporaries died, improvisation died with them.  Not until the 20th Century was improvisation revived, this time by jazz musicians.  Bach certainly would have been a jazzer had he been born today.  Being a jazz musician myself, I may be biased, but none of my classically trained friends dispute my point. 

The tragedy about "classical" music was that it became ossified for a time until the early 20th century, and innovation was frowned on.  There was a conductor (I forget which one) who refused to perform a piece because it had a 9th chord in 4th Inversion (e.g. C9/D, a common enough sound today in jazz), saying "there is no such thing as a 9th chord in 4th Inversion".  Thank the gods for Webern, is all I can say to that. 

The ossification that afflicted classical music now has stunted popular music to a nearly unprecedented degree today, with approximately 80% (or more) of any given song being merely re-hashing of earlier material, much like popular music of the 1950's.  I'm surprised I don't see lots of poodle skirts to go with it.   Heck, even drum tracks from one song are merely transferred to a new one rather than create and record a new drum part.  That practice was particularly common in Nashville, IIRC.  It will be many years before record companies allow another Led Zeppelin to happen.  When a band like that comes out, they raise the bar and compel better performances from other musicians if they want to maintain any self-respect.  It is much easier (and more importantly, _cheaper_) to produce bad music than it is to produce masterpieces.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Carol (Jan 31, 2008)

Its also suffered from a bit of (ahem) xenophobia.  I have a 4 CD set of Indian ragis playing 200 year old instruments and singing some very traditional music.  It sounds like a dream.  A lot of it is religious in nature, much like the European composers wrote for the church.  In India, this would be called "classical" music.  In the west, it seems to under "world music" or "ethnic music" or some kind of "not the same as European-influenced serious music."  A duet of sitar and tablas doesn't seem to have the same truck as a duet of piano and violin.

U.S. popular music started taking a major turn in the 1940s as our souldiers were getting deployed to places in the world that were mysterious to much of the population.  Some of the songs, such as "Tampico" were released as music videos in theatres, only they were called "soundies" at the time...a lot of them introducing different beats and grooves that weren't previously heard in European-influenced music. 

Perhaps that's exemplified by the great Louis Jordan, who started off his 1945 soundie for "Caldonia" by jokingly chiding with his bass player and saying "What you doin' boy...that ain't the beat we're supposed to play?"  

[yt]xB-7tE07qms[/yt]


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## MA-Caver (Jan 31, 2008)

That-- was-- GREAT Carol. Yeah, if not for the influences of the rest of the world then popular music in the U.S. would indeed be different. 

One of other musical things/ideas/concepts I argued (figuratively speaking) with my Classically trained friend was that today's motion picture soundtracks (the genre of music) or film scores could conceivably be tomorrow's classical music. I'm talking about composers like the great John Williams, John Barry, Jerry Goldsmith, etc. use full orchestras not too different than those used by Beethoven, Mozart, Handel, Bach and so on, yet their compositions are original. 
He said that because they were associated with a movie that they're nothing more than very good orchestrated pieces of music. I differ on that because I can listen to a score without associating it with the movie; try doing that by listening to the entire soundtrack to Star Wars and not have one mental image of Luke, Vader, Death Stars and Wookies, or E.T. and so forth. 
I'm thinking say 50/60 years in the future or even 100-200 years ahead and the scores are being played. Without seeing the film(s) or even having an association with them will people listen to the soundtracks/scores and have the same effect that Mozart or Beethoven has on us? Something to think about.


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## harlan (Jan 31, 2008)

Have to admit, while it was a good/stirring and topical movie, 'Platoon' ruined Barber's 'Adagio for Strings' for me. It was a long time before I didn't make the association with the movie.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 31, 2008)

harlan said:


> Have to admit, while it was a good/stirring and topical movie, 'Platoon' ruined Barber's 'Adagio for Strings' for me. It was a long time before I didn't make the association with the movie.


Well, maybe if you watched "The Elephant Man" starring John Hurt and Anthony Hopkins that might help eliminate the Platoon images. If I recall the Adagio For Strings was used in that movie as well.


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## harlan (Jan 31, 2008)

That movie scarred me! Come to think of it...perhaps the music was part of it.

But as to the perceived dichotomy between popular and classical...

I work at a rather large retail store known for it's cheap goods and low-class customers. I was sorting clothing, and mindlessly humming a tune one night, when from behind a woman's voice said,

'I don't believe it! I'm shopping in XXX...and I'm hearing Dvorak!'  

Snob. LOL!


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## exile (Jan 31, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> In India, this would be called "classical" music.  In the west, it seems to under "world music" or "ethnic music" or some kind of "not the same as European-influenced serious music."  A duet of sitar and tablas doesn't seem to have the same truck as a duet of piano and violin.



Great, informative posts everyone! I only have a few minutes at a time online at the moment, am at my mother's house, she's in hospital recovering from surgery for her (second) broken hip, which at 90 is no joke, etc. etc., and there's this transient internet link that shows up here for a quarter of an hour or so and then vanishes, so I want to get this out&#8212;wish I could respond to all your great observations. I just wanted to mention that Menuin did have a jam session with Ravi Shankar back in the 1960s that was considered the ultimate cool session, and other classical Western musicians have done the same kind of thing. It's like that guy I mentioned in an early post was always saying: artists (he was talking writers, but it's the same for all of 'em, I think) need new material, new influences above all else, and they really don't care where it comes from. The creative artist is totally without snobbishness&#8212;s/he can't afford that luxury!


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## MA-Caver (Jan 31, 2008)

harlan said:


> That movie scarred me! Come to think of it...perhaps the music was part of it.
> 
> But as to the perceived dichotomy between popular and classical...
> 
> ...


I loved the movie (Elephant Man) tragic yes but beautifully told and the music played a big part of it.


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## Balrog (Feb 15, 2008)

For those who might not have encountered him, the late Michael Hedges was an absolute guitar god.  He was classically trained, but his distinctive style was known as "violent acoustic guitar" or "deep tissue gladiator guitar".  :lol:


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## exile (Feb 15, 2008)

Balrog said:


> For those who might not have encountered him, the late Michael Hedges was an absolute guitar god.  He was classically trained, but his distinctive style was known as "violent acoustic guitar" or "deep tissue gladiator guitar".  :lol:



John Renbourn with weapons, sort of...


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## Archangel M (Feb 15, 2008)

Spanish Guitar


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## Sukerkin (Feb 15, 2008)

That Hedges song was wonderfu, thanks *Angel*.  Puts me in mind of a chap called John Themis except Themis didn't make such use of sequencers/digital delays.  I may have to have a dig around and see if I can't find some of Hedges' work.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 16, 2008)

great thread, thanks to everyone for sharing.

here's another good one

John William and Julian Bream


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## exile (Feb 16, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> great thread, thanks to everyone for sharing.
> 
> here's another good one
> 
> John William and Julian Bream



Whoa, kptx, that vid _rules_two great masters from adjacent generations  at the top of their game. Bream in particular seems to go on forever... I fully hope, and expect, that he's going to live to be 1,000... great stuff; thanks!


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## KenpoTex (Feb 19, 2008)

exile said:


> Whoa, kptx, that vid _rules_two great masters from adjacent generations at the top of their game.


 
here's another one...starts a little slow but really starts picking up at about the 3-minute mark. enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXGqsyBtq38&feature=related


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## harlan (Feb 19, 2008)

May I post a link off of that one?   It's not guitar, but is strings and lovely. And just to tie it into MA...remember to...breathe (at the end).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWVV_GnRIA&feature=related


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## jim777 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm surprised I missed a guitar thread! Anyway, has anyone ever seen any of Ji Lie's work? She's a young Chinese woman who has a number of old videos floating about from Chinese TV (from when she was about 14 or so) and she shows a lot of poise and beautiful chops for someone so young. She does a lovely version of Andrew York's "Suburst" for anyone not familiar with that particular piece.
Here is "Sunburst"


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## exile (Feb 20, 2008)

She's outstanding... and check out her Bach interpretation here. She has this kind of lapidary style, like an expert jeweler cutting a gemstone into perfects facets...


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## Sukerkin (Feb 20, 2008)

Absolutely gorgeous stuff.  As I've said before, I really ought to start practising again; I was semi-okay at one time and could be again (tho' my hands hurt these days ).


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## MA-Caver (Mar 11, 2008)

While it's not classical it'll soon be a classic... 
Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls... introducing
One String Willy! (yes he plays with just ONE string) 
[yt]8kKHE-_wekU[/yt]


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## exile (Mar 11, 2008)

That is... astonishing, MAC. 

But you can't help wondering... if he can do all that with just one string, what could he do with _five_??


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