# Where's your line?



## bushidomartialarts (Jun 25, 2007)

One of the benefits of serious training is you get to think about your responses before the stimulus.  We don't have to sit there in a confrontation wondering whether or not we feel justified in lighting the attacker up.  We've _already_ decided where our line is.

So, out of morbid curiosity, where's _your_ line?


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 25, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> One of the benefits of serious training is you get to think about your responses before the stimulus. We don't have to sit there in a confrontation wondering whether or not we feel justified in lighting the attacker up. We've _already_ decided where our line is.
> 
> So, out of morbid curiosity, where's _your_ line?


 
I prefer before I am morbid.  

I usually try to talk and walk away if possible. 

I have been swung on and given that situation I just parried and checked the man and no counter. 

Previously times I have pre-emptive struck as the guy was hitting himself in the head to get his adrenaline up. I figured I would just help him out if the fight was going to happen anyways. 

So, I guess from experience it depends for me on the threat and the level of threat and environment and those with me and if they can get away.


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## Bigshadow (Jun 25, 2007)

The best I can answer is 'Just in time'.


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## foot2face (Jun 25, 2007)

While in class my master would give us short lectures about philosophy, personal conduct and such. One of the things he told us was that  before you use your TKD ask yourself two questions:

1) Is what your fighting for worth killing for?  Any physical altercation, no matter how seemingly benign, can escalate to a point of extreme violence where you *will have to take a life!  *You must also take into account the unintended consequences of your actions.  You may kick someone in the leg, intending only to sweep them to the ground but they may fall bad breaking their neck or cracking their scull on the pavement.  Now you've just killed a person.

2) Is what your fighting for worth dying for? Basically the flip side of what was mentioned above.

If you answer no to either, walk away, you'll live a longer and happier life.  If you answer yes to both, you can fight hard with a clean conscious and show no mercy.

If you are, however, jumped or mugged or just randomly attacked, your attacker has answered yes to both for you.  In which case you immediately kick them into the ground and sort things out when you are done!


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## 14 Kempo (Jun 25, 2007)

I agree with the above post. Walking away is always the best answer, if it can be done. If it is that you have to throw down, you'd better be mentally prepared to go the distance and suffer the consequences. Those consequences can be your life, or another's life. I am confident enough in myself as a person, to not worry about what others think about me, so I can easily make the choice to walk away.

The line to me is when I feel my life is threatened and I have no place to retreat, at that point I'm like a cornered animal, if through you is the only way out, I'm taking it.


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## tellner (Jun 25, 2007)

Our line for what? I've got one line for biting sarcasm, another for threatening glowers, one for preemptive gentle remonstrance, others for non-deadly force and one thick red and black one for thermonuclear annihilation. 

Sarcasm is for when I want to make someone feel small and insignificant but don't want the situation to physically escalate. 

The threatening gaze is for times when "I'm ready, I think you're a problem and I can take you right now," is the desired message. 

And so on.

There are things other than life and death that are worth fighting for. If someone really wants a piece of me but wants to beat me up disengagement might not be an option. In that case I'm going to get into it anyway and figure it might as well be on my terms. So I'll take the cheap shot and try to stop him very quickly, preferably without him knowing exactly what happened except that he hurts. I will not use techniques that have a reasonable chance of crippling or killing. 

Then there are the seminar *******s. You're working with them or demonstrating. They try to see how your steel is tempered. Or they're being jerks and bullying other participants. People like that might not have any shame. If that's the case, and if saying "Get out of here and don't come back" isn't quite the right thing (those of you who've been there know what I'm talking about) sometimes you have to explain to him in language he can understand that yours might not be bigger than his, but it's big enough to make him really sore really quickly. Not *crunch*splat* but *bang*ouchouchouchouchouch*

For the really big stuff it has to be serious - "immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or serious bodily injury resulting from the unlawful use of force against you or an innocent third person". If it's a stranger whom I really and truly believe is in danger of getting murdered, raped or similar I might respond. If it's my wife, my immediate blood family, or a few close friends I will use the threat of deadly force followed up immediately by deadly force if I don't see immediate surrender or the bad guy's back disappearing over the horizon. 

One of our pets? Legally there's no justification unless there's another crime like a robbery or burglary involved. Emotionally it would be hard not to come to the defense of one of our faithful dogs.


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## Sensei Payne (Jun 25, 2007)

Line...now are we talking witty one liners...hmmm

Well, my one liners are triggered by a phrase..such as

attacker after my reaction :"what did you do that for?"


Me: "What? you were going to Hit me..."

attacker:"yeah your right"

Me:"Uh huh"  ::take down::


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## jdinca (Jun 25, 2007)

When it's obvious there's no other good option.


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## qi-tah (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm afraid i've only been versed in counterfighting techniques so far (or at the most entering early), so it's a matter of give me something to work with, and i'll try to make it work. The only pre-emptive action i've ever had to take is to run, thankfully. 

On the other side of the line, however, if i have to fight, there won't be any such thing as "minimum force". I am pretty small, so if by skill or chance i get the upper hand, i'll keep going until there is no chance of the attacker coming back for round 2. The only exception to this rule would be if there are multiple attackers, neccecitating a quick getaway once attacker 1 is spitting out his (or her, let's face it!) teeth.


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## MaartenSFS (Jun 26, 2007)

tellner said:


> Our line for what? I've got one line for biting sarcasm, another for threatening glowers, one for preemptive gentle remonstrance, others for non-deadly force and one thick red and black one for thermonuclear annihilation.
> 
> Sarcasm is for when I want to make someone feel small and insignificant but don't want the situation to physically escalate.
> 
> ...


 
X 2


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 26, 2007)

I give up my watch, cash etc. upon request.  If I'm cooperating and he decides to make physical contact I'm going to respond with immediate and excessive force.  Go all zombie and bite a piece off.  It's the principal of the matter.  Don't scrap a cannibal.


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## Drac (Jun 26, 2007)

*My Line:* Yo lint brain, you wanna go home and tell your Mommy some fat gray harried cop beat the snot outta you???


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## megat (Jun 26, 2007)

hmmm usually i use my techer advice, if he swung once or twice avoid it and try getting away or talk him through. if he swung the third time let em have it in the most non prejudice way. heheheh.


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## bydand (Jun 26, 2007)

Generally I let things just slide off and not rile me up, too much of that in my younger/stupider days to still deal with it at my age.  Now, put one of my Children in danger or in a bad situation and I turn murderously cold.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 26, 2007)

The Line is very situational, but if your with in 2 1/1 feet of me an threatening, your about to get hit, as any closer and he who swings first has a big advantage.


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## Drac (Jun 27, 2007)

bydand said:


> Generally I let things just slide off and not rile me up, too much of that in my younger/stupider days to still deal with it at my age. Now, put one of my Children in danger or in a bad situation and I turn murderously cold.


 
You are NOT alone my friend...


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## Sensei Payne (Jun 27, 2007)

I don't have any children, but I have younger siblings, a girlfriend, family, and if something happens to them..its very motivating to get someone what they deserve...

ALTHOUGH....

I have a little brother, and he and I have been known to go get a late night meal such as Stake and Shake and waffle house, and my little brother (17 years old) is somewhat of a ladies man, and sometimes those ladies have Ex-BF's and sometimes they want to fight him...

Well in one occasion this happened and I was there with him at one of our late night meals and we were on our way out to the car and a kid my brothers age with his two friends confronted my brother, and the two started to fight...the guys two friends just stood back cheering on there friend and keeping a close eye on me...but me in this situation, I will not step in until the fight in my opinion is "over", either my brother or the other guy is on the ground...somewhat not moving, and/or a weapon, or even those friends decided to step in....But in that situation it my brother stood his own, like he has done in the past...this situation was a matter of honor and me stepping in would stint that...

Mind you when your reading this little tale of women, honor and Waffle House, at no point at least in my observance did my brother or I provoke or start the confrontation

Karate No Michi


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## bydand (Jun 27, 2007)

Drac said:


> You are NOT alone my friend...



Yeah, I know.  

Monday, the Rec. Department "forgot" my 7 year-old after swim lessons in the neighboring towns pool and left him there when they returned.  I am still fighting the burning desire to go beat  upon them until I go to the clink, but know that wouldn't serve as well as just reaming them all new ones and using that as a teaching lesson for the young workers who are very, VERY ashamed and horrified at their actions.  Everything turned out alright, he was scared, but there were other classes going on there and the city pool workers and lifeguards did a wonderful job with him until we got there.  :angry::tantrum::rpo::flammad:

PS we need a smiley with a head turning red, then flaming, then just exploding.


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## TheOriginalName (Jun 27, 2007)

foot2face said:


> While in class my master would give us short lectures about philosophy, personal conduct and such. One of the things he told us was that before you use your TKD ask yourself two questions:
> 
> 1) Is what your fighting for worth killing for? Any physical altercation, no matter how seemingly benign, can escalate to a point of extreme violence where you *will have to take a life! *You must also take into account the unintended consequences of your actions. You may kick someone in the leg, intending only to sweep them to the ground but they may fall bad breaking their neck or cracking their scull on the pavement. Now you've just killed a person.
> 
> ...


 
This i believe is absolutle gold!!
What my mother use to say, that "violence never solved anything" is ringing in my ears at the moment (or was that just from my sparing??).
If there is any other option that is always my preference - even if it may make me look like a coward. 
Only once have i ever had resort to using my art - the guy charged me and i simple used him momentum to put him into a wall. 
When i have felt threatened - and that has happened all over the world - i find that awareness of my surroundings has saved me. 
Walking faster to get out of sight - moving into a crowded public place - or simply putting some rubber to pavement and running away. 
But i consider myself lucky so far - that i have had options. 

But the above post is onto something - if you are not willing to kill or be killed for whatever is at stake, then is it truely worth fighting for?
If you are attacked - well it is your life that you are fighting for, as they mentioned, the decision has been made by your attacker. 

And perhaps if everyone were to live with such an outlook on life this world may be a more plesant place to live. 

Thanks for the great post foot2face - it is something i will take through life with me.


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## MJS (Jun 28, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> One of the benefits of serious training is you get to think about your responses before the stimulus. We don't have to sit there in a confrontation wondering whether or not we feel justified in lighting the attacker up. We've _already_ decided where our line is.
> 
> So, out of morbid curiosity, where's _your_ line?


 
If its possible to talk the situation down, do so.  If it works, fine, but there are some times when there is no time for talking.  Therefore, once the person is within arms reach, they've violated my personal space, and a pre-emptive strike is on its way.


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