# EliteXC is in the books



## Jai (May 31, 2008)

EliteXC has finished. My personal takes.

The first two fights where terrible. It looked like wannabe top ten fighters beating on guys on their way out the door anyways.

The women stole the show I think. Both looked good. I would loved to have seen a third round but safety is #1 and I think the doctors calling the fight was in best interest.

The title fight was shaping up to be a mind blower, the doctors screwed that one up. They should have given Smith his full five minutes before they even considered calling the fight. I hope the rematch makes it to TV.

Kimbo Kimbo Kimbo. He is one lucky man tonight. The call to stop the fight was way to premature. He did show some ground skill and a solid stand up, which was expected. He was also very humble post fight saying he knows he has a long road and a lot to learn.

All in all I give the show a D+

I still say get rid of Frank Shamrock. Every time he opened his mouth I wanted to fly to NJ and punch him.


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## Makalakumu (May 31, 2008)

I'd have to agree, on most parts.  I thought that most of the fights seemed worked.


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## Jai (May 31, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I'd have to agree, on most parts.  I thought that most of the fights seemed worked.



Yeah even going back now and rewatching the women's fight it seemed like a nice looking work. How many sloppy front PUSH kicks can you walk into? 90% of those front kicks where or looked pulled.

It seems odd that everyone that "should have" won, did. Either by destroying whoever was standing on the other side, or by some spotty calls.


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## Tez3 (Jun 1, 2008)

The previous posters opinions seem to be the general consensus of everyone here. I've been reading some comments from pro fighters, promoters and fans and they all agree it was a bad show altogether. I'd post them up but the forum they're from allows swearing and I can't go through them all censoring it rofl!
There was a link so I've seen the Thompson fight. How did he get through the medical with that ear and why was the fight stopped so soon? 
It does nothing for the sport, we have concerns as this company has taken over one of the big promotions here Cage Rage. No integrity and it will make MMA a laughing stock.


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## Tez3 (Jun 1, 2008)

http://www.cagewarriors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25118

Thought instead I'd post link to it lol!


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## REH2 (Jun 1, 2008)

I would have to agree, as well.  This is terrible!  Its as if they are trying to re-invent this wheel and put spinners on it.  The show is the fight, not dancing down to the ring with pyrotechnics and hip hop dancers.  Who let Vince McMahon put in his 2 cents?


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## terryl965 (Jun 1, 2008)

This was a really bad show and CBS should be taken out back for a whooopin, plain and simple.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 1, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I'd have to agree, on most parts. I thought that most of the fights seemed worked.


 
Yes it seemed like the fix was in.  Very, very, very sorry performance for the overall show.


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## FearlessFreep (Jun 1, 2008)

EliteXC On CBS And The Humiliation Of The MMA Sport


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 1, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> EliteXC On CBS And The Humiliation Of The MMA Sport


 
That pretty much sums it up.  Terrible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Let's hope the WEC fight tonight with Jen Pulver and Erijah Faber is a good one on Versus.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 1, 2008)

Damn I must have missed the best part.  I turned it off after the first two fights


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## Nolerama (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't know. Maybe I'll play Devil's Advocate.

Although I thought that they catered to a non-MMA viewing audience and went for more plebeian tastes (in terms of production) and that means dancing girls, musical soundtracks (listed and downloadable) and "big names" like Busta Rhymes and Frank Shamrock (he seemed uncomfortable btw); names non-MMA viewers should know.

That aside, I thought that there were some good aspects of the fights.

I liked seeing Baroni lose again. It makes me happy to see self-promoters like Baroni lose. I hope he never goes back into the ring.

It was cool seeing a progression from normative styles. Kimbo Slice (although sloppily-he'll definitely work on it) Carano and Young, all primarily strikers, actively defending and going to the ground. I think that's progression and puts the Mixed right back into MMA.

The Lawler fight showed how tense the promoters/fight doctors were on the first major network TV MMA promotion. You can't blame them. Think about this: why would they give both Smith and Lawler winners' purses? Management knew they were in the wrong.

But it won't happen again.

A lot of the things MMA fans saw and disliked will definitely be removed. But I thought the fights were not too bad. It wasn't a total wash. But like every good thing, it'll get mangled by the corporations. I'll still pay for a UFC fight.

But then again, it satisfied my urge to see Phil Baroni get knocked down.

Frank Shamrock sucks as a commentator.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 1, 2008)

I must admit that I was totaly turned off with the introduction of a fighter and having dancing girls, musical soundtracks (listed and downloadable) and "big names" like Busta Rhymes and Frank Shamrock just to add to the hype


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## Tez3 (Jun 1, 2008)

I woudln't pay to see UFC I'm afraid. there's far too many very good promotions here that charge loads less and have have far better match ups than UFC. 
Lowest prices for UFC tickets here are $150 and rising. Everyone elses $50 approx.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 1, 2008)

I never pay to see ANY of them.

Seems I've been given another reason not to.


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## Jai (Jun 1, 2008)

Want to talk ticket prices? UFC is coming to Minnesota in Aug. Nose Bleed seats are $250 a pop. All floor seating is $600 a pop except cageside which I think was a grand a seat. Screw that.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 2, 2008)

Judging by the low view of avid martial artists about the EliteXC show, I think it's important to point out a bigger point. The show on free tv is not marketed to us overall. It's marketed to the general public in hopes to building the sport. A large portion of the viewers that night, I would be willing to bet, viewed the MMA for the first time. SO, while it might not get our overall approval, it did its job. All I heard and have seen since the show is the conversation of it--everywhere! That's more than what has taken place previous. As for Kimbo, yeah, he's not ready overall, in terms of technical skills. But remember, it's his 3rd fight. Pick any name you know in the sport. They weren't up to par, or fighting legit fighters in their first few fights. To move along in your career, you have to fight the lesser opponents, be it has beens or newbies.

Overall, hate the show or like it, hate Kimbo or like him, it all put the MMA on the map! As fans we have to applaud that.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

Putting MMA on the map at any cost isn't a good idea. We want people to see proper MMA not worked fights, fighters who can't make weight and bad reffing decisions. If it means prostituting MMA I'd rather it remained a minority sport.


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## bowser666 (Jun 2, 2008)

I watched the airing and I thought it was bearable. Not outstanding by any means but bearable. I personally am enjoying watching Kimbo grow as a fighter. His ground game before was vritually non-existent and he has made some decent progress. I was suprised to see him gassed liek he was by the end of the fight but he has spirit. I thought it was a good match up to have a heavier and taller fighter that Kimbo couldn't man handle to fight against. It definitely gave him his first real taste of what MMA is going to be like. My one gripe is , even though I prefer traditional martial arts and was never a big fan of MMA , that ELiteXC is turning MMA into the WWE!!!!  It is sadly becoming more of a "let's make a quick buck while it is popular" and make it entertainment instead of how it really started. It is sad. Another point which I am not is jsut as sad or sadder is, that if it becomes mainstream , people are going to get bored of it fast, unless there is lot's of blood, broken bones, etc........ Welcome to the de-evolution !!!  Just my 2 cents.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 2, 2008)

Remember also, EliteXC is also the "minor leagues" of MMA, with lesser talent. Since your audience was mainly first timers or not as avid fans, a heavily marketed product is what you get. As for the bad decisions, stoppages, etc.. I agree and was upset as well. However, upon reflection, it was on free tv! There are going to be some sort of censoring or lessening of the violent results. The sport here is growing, not in a solid view like others. As for the making weight issue, it's not as big as deal as you think. Fighters weigh in at one weight, and fight heavier frequently. I'm sure if Kaitlin was weighed at fight time, she was probably over the limit as well. There wasn't a noticeable size difference that would have played out, favoring one over another. We're talking about a few pounds give or take, not a heavyweight against a middleweight.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm afraid the weight issue is a big thing, a friend of mine Rosi Sexton fought Gina Careno, the weights were agreed but Gina still came in overweight. Rosi and Karl Tanswell her trainer had flown over to the States, paying for flights and accomodation themselves. When Karl queried Gina's weight he was told that if Rosi didn't fight they wouldn't get paid, it was a simple as that. If you wish I will give you Karl's details and you can ask him yourself. 
There was a weight difference and yes it does make a difference. the weigh-ins ins and the fighting weight of fighters is something fighters and reputable promoters take very seriously. As you said fighters will fight at heavier than their weigh in weight so just how bigger was Gina?
I have considerable experience with weigh ins and promoting fights so please don't tell me what I think thank you. Look up Pride & Glory Ultimate Fighting on Sherdog, that's us. We've done over 30 fight nights as well as taking fighters to all the other shows in the UK as well as some in Europe.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, I know about your issues as you have been going on about them regarding Miss Carano for some while now. You don't like her--OK, Fine! You have a right to your view. Those that do like her-they have a right to their views. As for telling you your business, Where did I do this? You want to call me out for something Miss? Why? Because you know that I'm a fan of Gina's? All I did was try to enlighten about the show and give possible reasons for what went on. I never called you out. If I did, I would directly! Don't let your hatred of her overtake your posts and make assumptions. As for the show, when marketing nationally (world wide?) as it was, your issues of concern take a back seat miss Tez. You don't like it? Don't watch! The first 2 hrs took a 2.7 Nielson rating. (4.3 million viewers!) That wasn't including the main event. By that point, it was over 4 out of a 5 share! It swept the 18-34 male range, and ratings went up every half hour! So...Guess what!!!  MORE SHOWS COMING!!!! Get used to it. That's how it's going to be for the near future. It's going mainstream. Your view, is the minority and irrelevant to the bucks being generated. I feel for you too. It'as the same way that the MA's went when the watering down and marketing boom hit, and us old schoolers were left out.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

Hand Sword said:


> Remember also, EliteXC is also the "minor leagues" of MMA, with lesser talent. Since your audience was mainly first timers or not as avid fans, a heavily marketed product is what you get. As for the bad decisions, stoppages, etc.. I agree and was upset as well. However, upon reflection, it was on free tv! There are going to be some sort of censoring or lessening of the violent results. The sport here is growing, not in a solid view like others. *As for the making weight issue, it's not as big as deal as you think. Fighters weigh in at one weight, and fight* *heavier frequently.* I'm sure if Kaitlin was weighed at fight time, she was probably over the limit as well. There wasn't a noticeable size difference that would have played out, favoring one over another. We're talking about a few pounds give or take, not a heavyweight against a middleweight.


 

That's where you tell me what I think! then you continue to tell me I hate Gina Careno, I don't in the least but she is bringing womens MMA into disrepute and that annoys me. We have only 15 active female fighters in the UK and it's hard getting more women into fighting because men see womens MMA as a joke because of antics of Gina and her promoters.
If you are a fan of Gina's I can't say I knew that, I'm taking a professional view on her, her personality etc is of no interest to me.
Stop assuming I'm getting at you personally and your statisitcs mean nothing to me as I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about when you mention Neilsons etc.
Thank you for feeling sorry for me but I'd watch your blood pressure if I were you, you seem a tad overwrought.!


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## Hand Sword (Jun 2, 2008)

Another sarcastic comment. You're a MT mentor? Well, I think you should mind yours as you are the one that addressed me directly, and with the snippy response. Then, you went off on this tangent about Gina (Yet Again!) and Poor Rosie (Yet Again!). Is that a bad thing that happened---YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the numbers game, you're a promoter for those big entitiies you say? They should mean something for you! That tells you how your promotion did. Those numbers mean that EliteXC-like it or hate it--Dominated tv-overwhelmingly! Which in turn, means more shows.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

Hand Sword said:


> Another sarcastic comment. You're a MT mentor? Well, I think you should mind yours as you are the one that addressed me directly, and with the snippy response. Then, you went off on this tangent about Gina (Yet Again!) and Poor Rosie (Yet Again!). Is that a bad thing that happened---YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> As for the numbers game, you're a promoter for those big entitiies you say? They should mean something for you! That tells you how your promotion did. Those numbers mean that EliteXC-like it or hate it--Dominated tv-overwhelmingly! Which in turn, means more shows.


 
No I wasn't being sarcastic. No I wasn't being snippy with you. You posted after my post that 'weights were as important *as you think" *telling me what I think. Your responses have been sarcastic and overwrought.
I think there's little point in continuiing this discussion with you.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm sure you weren't, not at all. My posts came after a few of you, and the you was a general you, not a specific you. Also, I know sarcastic and overwrought very well (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I was in no way being either when I was just talking about the show and at no one specific. You addressed me and my points first--Directly! I answered you directly. You gave your snippy comments when there was no need for them, simply because you disagreed with my views? That's childish. You don't want to discuss anything with me ever again--FINE!!!!! I will be happy to oblige and put you on my ignore list. I've followed your posts for awhile and you are poster with a constant angry slant. I have no time for people like you either. 

Promote your promotions the way you want, and think/believe what you will. As I said, in the bigger picture of what's going on, it means nothing.
In reality weight doesn't count anymore than any other factor does at any time. Sometimes its speed, experience, power, whatever. I constantly see the big guys get dropped by smaller people. Mr. Gracie did it constantly, when there were no weight classes as well as many others. Heavyweights can outweigh each other by 30 pounds or more. Tons of the bigger ones lose all of the time. Gina was 4.5 pounds over at weigh in and lost some of her pay for it. During the fight, whatever weight either of the ladies were, Gina appeared smaller than Kaitlin. Either way, Gina trained for three weeks, was gassed and sucking air after halfway through the first round, her movement and reaction slow, and her hands were down. ANY FIGHTER WORTH THEIR SALT would've taken advantage of it, irregardless of weight. All have failed to this point. Love it or hate it-she's the "face" of female MMA, and it's here to stay! If it bothers you as much as it has shown, fight her. You said before that you'd love to and I'm still waiting for the match. You said you were heavier. She might welcome not having to drop so much weight. Either way, for everything, BEST OF LUCK TO YOU. :asian:


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## theletch1 (Jun 2, 2008)

Ladies and gents this thread is getting dangerously close to a good old fashioned "Mod warning".  What say we all take a deep breath, head back over to the original topic of the thread (instead of weight issues) and enjoy the polite conversation we are all so famous for.


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## MJS (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, it was no UFC but IMO, this event is new, so who knows how it'll turn out in the future.  My thoughts on the fights...

I missed the majority of the first one.

I thought Gina did a great job.  Both fighters looked very winded.  If Ginas weight was that much of a concern, someone should've said something.  IIRC, wasn't she penalized or something for that?  

The 2nd to last fight was good, and if it wasn't for the eye injury, I'd have loved to have seen it go on.

Kimbo...the man has some great stand up.  His ground game is there, but still needs work.  Of course, if he's working with Bas, it will certainly get better with time.   I will admit that I was surprised that the ref didn't stop the fight when the other guy had him against the cage, elbowing him.  If it wasn't for the fact that Kimbo landed a shot on that guys ear, I think if it went to a decision, it may have not worked in Kimbos favor.  And speaking of ears...that was just plain nasty!!  If that guy doesnt have some surgery, especially now, after getting hit there, his ear is going to look 10 times as bad than it did before.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

I gave my opinion and it's hardly fair that I should be attacked for giving my opinion. Whether you agree with it or not, it's MY opinion that's all, nothing else.


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## punisher73 (Jun 2, 2008)

As to the weight issue, Gina (no matter if you are a fan of hers or not) agreed to fight at a certain weight.  She is a professional and bound by her professional contract.  She came in almost 5 pounds over the weight.  If that was ANY other professional combat sport, it WOULD be a big deal.  If you really want to see more woman's MMA than it needs to be treated with more respect than a sideshow (not saying anyone here thinks this) and both contestants need to be professional and honor their agreements.  Many people just want to see "two pretty girls" throwdown a la WWE bra and panty match and if all violations are just overlooked it could quickly devolve into that.

Kimbo Slice got VERY lucky.  They brought in a guy who had lost 5 of his last 7 fights and was known to have a glass jaw.  They are marketing Kimbo HUGE and put an opponent in front of him to make him look good.  The ref stood them up when Thompson was in side control actively working, giving Kimbo another shot at knocking him out.  The fight was stopped prematurely in my opinion.

Some of the other fights were good, but I think NBC tried to "sanitize" the event too much.  To save looking too violent the refs were stopping things way too early.  Also, many NBC affiliates would not carry the event and other areas were blacked out.  I think I would prefer to watch MMA events in the WEC and UFC's fight nights.


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## terryl965 (Jun 2, 2008)

All I can say is bad very bad, maybe it will get better who knows.


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## Tez3 (Jun 2, 2008)

If you click on again to the link I posted , James Thompson has posted there, as he says though it's a short post as his long one didn't go through lol. A few different views on there, a couple from his training partners too. Some are from other fighters.
here's a link to James' press conference, looking at the ear makes you go ouch!

http://mmarated.com/users/video/163/529.html


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## rutherford (Jun 2, 2008)

MJS said:


> I thought Gina did a great job.  Both fighters looked very winded.  If Ginas weight was that much of a concern, someone should've said something.  IIRC, wasn't she penalized or something for that?



She paid a 12.5% penalty to the other fighter out of her purse.


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## mrhnau (Jun 2, 2008)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dw-kimbo060108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


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## SageGhost83 (Jun 2, 2008)

It was disappointing. The referees did a god awful job and spoiled what could've been an all-time classic (Lawler and Smith). I was surprised by Kimbo - he actually had a ground game, or at least, some semblance of one. I thought he was going to get tapped when he hit the ground for the first time. He won, but I thought that the ref stopped it too soon. Why on earth did they let a guy with a cauliflower ear in the ring in the first place? Kimbo was okay, I mean, he is new to MMA so of course he is not going to be world class even though he is hyped as such. Most of his work came out on the streets in the real world, which is personally far more impressive than doing it in a sporting environment, IMHO. He was humble and said that he has a long way to go in his sport, and I agree. Overall, the event delivered more flash than substance. If CBS was going to pick up an MMA event, it should've been Cung Le vs. Shamrock, it was a much better event and a more accurate demonstration of what MMA is all about.


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## MJS (Jun 2, 2008)

rutherford said:


> She paid a 12.5% penalty to the other fighter out of her purse.


 
Thanks.  Yeah, I remember hearing something about a penalty, but wasn't sure what it was. 

Mike


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## arnisador (Jun 3, 2008)

It certainly got a lot of attention. That's good for the martial arts--though not necessarily the traditional arts as we think of them!


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## TheArtofDave (Jun 22, 2008)

*After seeing Eltie XC it made me appreciate the UFC even more. I've been a fan of UFC since UFC 3 way back when it was just beginning to evolve, and the fights were more of the tournament style. *

*I do think that Elite XC had potential for its first show, and if that was their first attempt to draw in new fans of MMA they failed miserably. However because so many took an interest in the show there will be another one July 26 in what I'm only hoping will be a starch improvement over the first.*

*The only good fight was the girl fight. I agree. Lawler/Smith had potential but it was like every other fight stopped too soon.*

*Especially the Main Event of James Thompson vs Kimbo. I mean the fight should have been stopped sooner inho. There should not have been a moment where Thompson's ear did that. The fight that should have had an early stoppage was allowed to go on. Because Elite XC doesn't want to see their poster boy beaten.*

*With the Main Event allowed to continue it allowed Kimbo to punch Thompson in the ear enough times for it to cauliflower up. His ear was normal at the beginning of the fight. Somebody punches you in the ear enough times that can happen. I still don't understand why there wasn't a brief time out to drain that ear for Thompson to continue. I understand fighters saftey but Kimbo from a decision stand point was losing the fight. He would have had to knock out Thompson to win. Beside the ear Thompson was good to continue but because of the ear and CBS being too afraid to continue they had the promoters pull the plug on what  could have been Kimbo's first defeat allowing him to work harder in the sport. Something all fighters must do.*

*Every fighter loses, and its rare you see one undefeated in this era. I wanted to give Elite XC a chance. But the first show just seemed like half the fights were work, and the commentary was completely horrible.*

*While I am a very small percentage of the viewing population I will not be giving Elite XC a second chance. My two cents. Sorry if nobody else agrees.*

*Sure Elite XC is the minor leagues, but if they ever expect to be seen as anything more than a "WWE Developmental camp" they better start giving us something that helps the sport.*

*Til that day I'll stick to the UFC, or any other credible MMA show because I'd rather watch something that helps the MMA sport come into his own. Not amateur night instead. *


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