# Vibram Fivefinger Shoes



## Willard814 (May 23, 2011)

I've been training in Shotokan karate for three months now and it is hard on the feet... very hard! So my questions is has anyone trained using Vibram Fivefinger shoes? They are a great training shoe that covers a broad spectrum of physical fitness activities. 

http://ergonomics.about.com/od/running/fr/Five_Fingers_Shoes.htm


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## Sensei Payne (May 23, 2011)

I haven't trained in them in the dojo, but they are awesome for going to places like seminars and tournaments and such...

I personally wouldn't want students to wear them in class unless there was a medical reason...but outside of the traditional enviroment, I don't see why you couldn't wear them.


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## MA-Caver (May 23, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> I've been training in Shotokan karate for three months now and it is hard on the feet... very hard! So my questions is has anyone trained using Vibram Fivefinger shoes? They are a great training shoe that covers a broad spectrum of physical fitness activities.
> 
> http://ergonomics.about.com/od/running/fr/Five_Fingers_Shoes.htm


You say that it's hard on the feet and that should tell you something right there. Our feet are very pampered and people do not walk as much as they should/could/would. We've insoles and cushioned socks and all these wonderful things to make walking more comfy... but it doesn't toughen up our feet as it should.
We also abuse our feet with poorly fitted shoes and other types of foot-wear. 
Get used to walking around barefoot around the home. Then in your yard (if not in an apt.... if so go to the park but watch for dog mines). 
The five finger shoes I've seen others wear them and podiatrists have said good things about them. But yeah I wouldn't wear them for MA training, in or out of the dojo.


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## Sensei Payne (May 23, 2011)

it seems lately that even the big names in shoe making like skechers are trying to get into the fitness deal...with there shape ups..you can't really wear them ALL the time, because it really does turn into a real work out especially if your on your feet all day...these five finger shoes only protect your soles...your ankle gets no support and neither does your arch...so after the first few times of wearing them, your gonna be at least a little sore...because you will be using muscles your not normally used to.


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## Omar B (May 23, 2011)

Youve been on Shotokan for 3 months and it's hard on your feet?  Try a couple years, like 25.  Karate is meant ot be hard on you, it's to toughen you up.  My Sensei used to run us on asphalt, grass, the running track, whatever he felt like.  Pushups on the pavement too.

The shoes look like a gimmick to mimic what you really should be doing on your own with your feet.


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## Willard814 (May 23, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> You say that it's hard on the feet and that should tell you something right there. Our feet are very pampered and people do not walk as much as they should/could/would. We've insoles and cushioned socks and all these wonderful things to make walking more comfy... but it doesn't toughen up our feet as it should.
> We also abuse our feet with poorly fitted shoes and other types of foot-wear.
> Get used to walking around barefoot around the home. Then in your yard (if not in an apt.... if so go to the park but watch for dog mines).
> The five finger shoes I've seen others wear them and podiatrists have said good things about them. But yeah I wouldn't wear them for MA training, in or out of the dojo.



Just don't care for my feet being ripped open all the time because of blisters and such, even the black belts students are taping up their feet because of this. I train three times a week so I was wondering how long will it take my feet to get use to this type of abuse?


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## sfs982000 (May 23, 2011)

I haven't personally used them myself, but there are quite a few folks that I know that use the Fivefinger shoes and love them.  Again my friends use them for weight lifting and running, as far as in the dojang, the mats we have are pretty well padded so there really isn't a need (barring some medical condition) that the shoes would be needed.  Have you approached your sensei about wearing something like that during class?


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## elder999 (May 23, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> I've been training in Shotokan karate for three months now and it is hard on the feet... very hard! So my questions is has anyone trained using Vibram Fivefinger shoes? They are a great training shoe that covers a broad spectrum of physical fitness activities.
> 
> http://ergonomics.about.com/od/running/fr/Five_Fingers_Shoes.htm


 
I'd like to try them. Too bad they don't come in real man sizes. :lfao:

Hard on the feet?? _3 months????_

Maybe you should just go ahead and quit now. 

Omar's right: it's not supposed to be easy.


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## Sensei Payne (May 23, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Hard on the feet?? _3 months????_
> 
> Maybe you should just go ahead and quit now.
> 
> Omar's right: it's not supposed to be easy.


 

I don't say quit..keep on trying...thats all an instructor really wants to see anyways.  Students doing there very best.


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## OldKarateGuy (May 23, 2011)

With all due respect to the many posters here, karate isn't about tearing your body up. Anyone who has done barefoot martial arts for any length of time has experienced plantar fasciitis. Another typical long-term overuse injury has to do with the metatarsal bones. 

You can make up for a lot of abuse at the dojo by wearing good arch-support shoes away from karate. You can try orthonics. You can also tape your feet before class for plantar fasciitis. Just google "plantar fasciitis & taping" for all kinds of hits and directions. 

There are also specific exercises you can do to stretch and strengthen the foot. 

As a last resort, you can use a martial arts shoe with arch support. Regular running shoes or cross training shoes won't work because you will not be able to move and pivot correctly. I suspect that dance shoes might work too. 

If you hurt your feet and can't train for days or weeks, then where would you be? Forget the snide comments and see a podiatrist. Get some expert advice before you do any more damage.


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## Omar B (May 23, 2011)

elder999 said:


> I'd like to try them. Too bad they don't come in real man sizes. :lfao:
> Hard on the feet?? _3 months????_
> Maybe you should just go ahead and quit now.
> Omar's right: it's not supposed to be easy.



Any style worth it's salt pays attention to body hardening.  The whole body.


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## Willard814 (May 23, 2011)

elder999 said:


> I'd like to try them. Too bad they don't come in real man sizes. :lfao:
> 
> Hard on the feet?? _3 months????_
> 
> ...



"Maybe you should just go ahead and quit now." Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm sure you loved having your feet blistered up, when you first started. If you don't have anything positive to say then maybe you shouldn't comment at all. I see martial arts training hasn't done much for your attitude. Remember? "Respect others"? I think I'll continue my training regardless of your ill advice.


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## Omar B (May 23, 2011)

Dont take it that way man.  What we are getting at is that it will not be easy or comfortable.  If it was, everyone would be a black belt, nothing worth having is ever easy.  

Many of us also come from really tough dojo.  My sensei is from the first generation of Seido black belts, and Seido's founder was a former Kyokushin star.  Oh training was not at all fun, ever, and I don't think it ever should be.


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## Sensei Payne (May 23, 2011)

I kinda want a pair of these bad boys for myself now...Great conversation starter for sure..lol


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## elder999 (May 23, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> . I see martial arts training hasn't done much for your attitude. Remember? "Respect others"? I think I'll continue my training regardless of your ill advice.


 

"Respect others." Right. Sorry-I didn't realize that included _*whining*_.

_Oh, my stars, I've been training for *three whole months* and my tootsies hurt._

Never meant for you to actually quit, and it wasn't you I was belittling-it was what I perceived as a lack of fortitude from your initial post, the most common complaint-_*whine!*_-of our society: _It's too hard._

It's supposed to be hard. Life is hard. _Get used to it._

When I began formal martial arts training on my 11th birthday, I hurt in all sorts of places: sore abs so bad I couldn't get out of bed at first the next morning. Sore thighs. Sore shouldes. Sore traps. Later, when I began sparring, bruises were added to the mix. I've been lucky, and in the nearly 40 years of training since that day (it'll be 40 on my birthday, next month) I've never been seriously injured when training-no broken bones beyond my nose and toes, no separated shoulders, or bad concussions. Not even plantar fascitis-even with all the fairly serious hiking and running that I do, I've never suffered from that or shin splints. Part of it's good warm ups, part of it's good training, and part of it is probably just dumb luck-in fact, at 50, I'm probably due for something ugly. In any case, beyond the occasional blister (do as your seniors do, only get some moleskin to put on there before you tape 'em up) nothings really hurt enough _to make me want to quit._

The statistic might have changed, but when I was a teenager, about 1 out of 13 people who started in martial arts made it to shodan. As shameful as that seemed to me, it was even more surprising how many dropped out after that-something like 1 in 20 shodans went on to higher rank. I'm sure, with the advent of the McDojo, that there are places that have better numbers. I'm sure, with dojos like mine, where I pretty much can charge what I like and only take students that I want to, there are better numbers: the only students that I've had quit are ones that moved away.

As for the shoes, as cool (and goofy) as they seem, no traditional shotokan sensei would allow them on the floor-back in the day, I wouldn't even have dreamt of asking my kyokushin sensei for such a radical departure from tradition, and he was hardly a traditionalist-it's about decorum, as much as anything.

It's possible that for one reason or another you're suffering more than most, and if that's true, I apologize.: Do like OldKarateGuy said and see a podiatrist, then. If it's just blisters, well.....

If you want to wear them when you practice on your own, that's fine, I guess, but your feet won't get any tougher-and 'Caver right: we're too easy on feet that are meant to go bare, and training shoes are the reason why our knees wear out so quickly-that's part of why Vibram came up with the goofy things-which I'd buy myself, if I didn't have mutant feet in size 15. :lfao:


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## OldKarateGuy (May 23, 2011)

I came back here to check on the responding posts, and I see that the smart advertising bots have already posted ads for the Vibram toes-things-shoes at the top of the page. 

I'll be the first to admit that shoes in a dojo just strike me as...well, wrong somehow. But...big "but", when my feet are just crushed, I'll wear a pair of soft running shoes and just lecture that day, no demonstrating. My original judo sensei and my first shotokan sensei did the very same thing. 

My school, until recently, had two 3rd dans who were in their mid-70's. I'm way past 60. At some point, you have to recognize that abusing your body is not going to foster a long career in the MA. If someone wants to wear martial arts shoes in my school, I permit it. 

I do agree with the general sentiment that if martial arts were easy, everyone would be swaggering around in a black belt. it's supposed to be hard. But martial arts should also be about injury prevention. Training hard can still be training smart. Some of this bare foot stuff strikes me as similar to suggesting that beating your hands on a brick wall or a tree trunk makes one a better fighter. It doesn't. It just hurts your hands.


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## Carol (May 23, 2011)

I did not like Vibram 5 fingers at all. Love Vibram soles, I have them on two of my hikers.  But I do not like the 5 fingers shoe.  I'll take a good pair of Vasques any day


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## David43515 (May 23, 2011)

I can only recall once in my life when I ever got a blister on the sole of my foot. Maybe up on the soft skin on top or at the heel if it was rubbing on a shoe wrong, but only once on the sole. (I made the mistake of playing basketball barefoot and pivoted with someone standing on my foot.) I would have to suggest that you spend some time outside barefoot to toughen up the skin on your soles. I was always a hiker, so my feet are just naturally hard.

But if it`s okay with your teacher, they might help if you`re blistered. Can I ask what kind of surface you`re practicing on that`s tearing your feet up so much? I can`t recall blisters on the sole being a problem for any students I taught or trained with.


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## David43515 (May 23, 2011)

Elder, you wear a size 15?!I thought I had it tough with a size 13. Where in the world do you shop? I think if you ever came to Japan you`d have to buy from overseas or go down to Tokyo and hit the stores that cater to Sumo wrestlers. I can only buy shoes  locally because I found a store whose manager wears a 13. Most places in Japan don`t stock over an 11.5.


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## Willard814 (May 24, 2011)

elder999 said:


> "Respect others." Right. Sorry-I didn't realize that included _*whining*_.
> 
> _Oh, my stars, I've been training for *three whole months* and my tootsies hurt._
> 
> ...



""Respect others." Right. Sorry-I didn't realize that included _*whining*_." So you continue to disrespect me? I ask a reasonable question for someone who has just stared Shotokan training. I only ask about wear and tear on the feet because outside of training I have a life which includes a wife and son, I own my own home and I work full time so I can't afford to be out of commission sort of speak. My whole body hurts yet I did not complain about it actually I didn't mention pain at all. After speaking to my Sensei about using the shoes she confirmed that I need to build callouses on my feet, and I'm pretty much half way there. 

'It's supposed to be hard. Life is hard. _Get used to it._" I never complained about life being hard I'm a 40 years old college graduate so I know life is hard. I grew up in Newark, New Jersey one of the toughest cities in the country. I made it our of there in one piece without martial arts training mind you and made it thru college so my chances are very good that I'll make it to black belt status or shodan as you put it. 

"Never meant for you to actually quit, and it wasn't you I was  belittling-it was what I perceived as a lack of fortitude from your  initial post, the most common complaint-_*whine!*_-of our society: _It's too hard._" If you never meant for me to quit then why bring it up? Have you ever heard of positive reinforcement? The real problem with society is people like you who try to cleverly be condescending. The problem with our society is that there is no true love for one another. I came here for help not verbal and mental abuse so if you have nothing positive to say then please don't comment on my post.

With all due respect Willard


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## Steve (May 24, 2011)

I've been wearing the vibrams for a couple of years now.  I love them, but don't wear them on the mats.


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## elder999 (May 24, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> So you continue to disrespect me?


 

[yt]qS7nqwGt4-I[/yt]

[yt]WL1lfSzgcAw[/yt]


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## Willard814 (May 24, 2011)

I'm trying to be an adult here, please don't push me!

http://youtu.be/VBdG_1BHbb0


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## jks9199 (May 24, 2011)

Guys & gals,

Let's reign the machismo tuff-guy stuff in a bit, OK?  I concede, many of you trained barefoot in the freezing snow uphill both ways, and are man enough to cause pregnancies simply by thinking about a woman.

Cool. 

Let's not belittle each other, OK?


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## Willard814 (May 24, 2011)

*elder999* you have been reported! I don't have to put up with your abuse. Not to mention you violated the terms of service agreement.

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## elder999 (May 24, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> [youtube]VBdG_1BHbb0[/youtube]


 

Isn't this what ya mean:

[yt]VBdG_1BHbb0[/yt]

:lfao:





jks9199 said:


> Guys & gals,
> 
> Let's reign the machismo tuff-guy stuff in a bit, OK? I concede, many of you trained barefoot in the freezing snow uphill both ways, and are man enough to cause pregnancies simply by thinking about a woman.
> 
> ...


 
It's pretty clear that whatever point I was trying to make was lost on him with my second post.

"Uphill both ways," :lol:..."pregnancies simply by thinking..." :lfao:

's'cool. I've had my fun,and I am done.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 24, 2011)

*Thread Locked.


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