# Using Soft to Overcome Hard



## futsaowingchun (May 4, 2015)




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## geezer (May 4, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


>


 
Doesn't look like "a lack of structure" as much as using relaxed, "soft" energy. You see this emphasized with the TST lineage, also the LT "WT" lineage, and others. Each explains it a little differently. Obviously, though, there's more to it than just sticking your relaxed arm out there!

Also, I'd think twice before telling a student to depend on one arm to block a really _strong_  MT round kick.


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## futsaowingchun (May 4, 2015)

geezer said:


> Doesn't look like "a lack of structure" as much as using relaxed, "soft" energy. You see this emphasized with the TST lineage, also the LT "WT" lineage, and others. Each explains it a little differently. Obviously, though, there's more to it than just sticking your relaxed arm out there!
> 
> Also, I'd think twice before telling a student to depend on one arm to block a really _strong_  MT round kick.




There is more to it but I just wanted to show by demonstration  that its possible to use softness to overcome someone who is using strength. There is a lot of fake stuff out there. Masters waving their hands and his students hopping around like a puppet on a string. I did not move my hands because I wanted to show that I don't need movement or strength,structure to stop a a very powerful force. Perhaps I will talk about this in greater detail in the future not sure yet if i want to do that. Anyway,IMO this skill is actually easy to attain much easier then what people call wing chun structure which is very limited in application and can cause serious joint, tendon and muscular problems. I say this because I'm a victim of my own training..


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## zuti car (May 4, 2015)

geezer said:


> Also, I'd think twice before telling a student to depend on one arm to block a really _strong_  MT round kick.


I agree with this completely . It is obvious that smaller guy lack conditioning .While I was running a club in Serbia my students had to attack and block with full power . First couple of month their arms had bruises in full specter of colors but after 7 - 8 months they got used to it and bruising stopped . I wonder how these blocks on the video would do against someone a lot bigger and stronger and practiced some of Okinawan karate styles


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## Kwan Sau (May 4, 2015)

I agree with Geezer...what MCM demonstrated had structure. If he didn't, on any level, his arm would have failed.
Also, what was demonstrated is common wing chun skill as far as I know.
Zuti brings up a good point...would the results be different if the aggressor were large and powerful?
If MCM decides to find a more powerful / stronger opponent...have him stand within range next time. The smaller guy was way out of range of MCM's head.


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## Xue Sheng (May 4, 2015)

I am trying to not post in the Wing Chun section much these days but from a Taijiquan perspective that makes me think of Peng (Ward Off) and there is structure meaning rooted, aligned and unification of upper and lower

It is an outward expanding and moving energy.  It is responding to incoming energy by sticking to that energy while maintaining one's own posture and thereby bounces back the incoming force, think hitting an inflated inner tube or an inflated rubber kickball.  You are not really responding to force with force to block, or ward off the attack.  Peng is a whole unified body response, which is centered, well rooted and able to absorb and return the incoming force


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## geezer (May 4, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am trying to not post in the Wing Chun section much these days...


 
Why the heck not, Xue? Your opinions are often interesting and informative.


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## Vajramusti (May 4, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am trying to not post in the Wing Chun section much these days but from a Taijiquan perspective that makes me think of Peng (Ward Off) and there is structure meaning rooted, aligned and unification of upper and lower
> 
> It is an outward expanding and moving energy.  It is responding to incoming energy by sticking to that energy while maintaining one's own posture and thereby bounces back the incoming force, think hitting an inflated inner tube or an inflated rubber kickball.  You are not really responding to force with force to block, or ward off the attack.  Peng is a whole unified body response, which is centered, well rooted and able to absorb and return the incoming force


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## Vajramusti (May 4, 2015)

Good points- not just taichi but for good wing chun as well


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## Xue Sheng (May 6, 2015)

geezer said:


> Why the heck not, Xue? Your opinions are often interesting and informative.



Because I'm to easily distracted by things wing chun from things taiji


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## mograph (May 6, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> Because I'm to easily distracted by things wing chun from things taiji


Because Wing Chun is so flashy? Like Xingyiquan!


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## K-man (May 6, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am trying to not post in the Wing Chun section much these days but from a Taijiquan perspective that makes me think of Peng (Ward Off) and there is structure meaning rooted, aligned and unification of upper and lower
> 
> It is an outward expanding and moving energy.  It is responding to incoming energy by sticking to that energy while maintaining one's own posture and thereby bounces back the incoming force, think hitting an inflated inner tube or an inflated rubber kickball.  You are not really responding to force with force to block, or ward off the attack.  Peng is a whole unified body response, which is centered, well rooted and able to absorb and return the incoming force


We use exactly the same movement in Aikido and to answer *zuti car*'s point, yes it works against karate strikes too. I wouldn't normally use it against a kick but I must confess I've not tried it out on a kick.


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## zuti car (May 6, 2015)

K-man said:


> We use exactly the same movement in Aikido and to answer *zuti car*'s point, yes it works against karate strikes too. I wouldn't normally use it against a kick but I must confess I've not tried it out on a kick.


It works on the video above , It will work against someone who is pretty much same size as the person who is blocking but would it work against someone who is at last 25 % larger and have enough martial training (doesn't have to be an expert). I've tried with a person 25% larger than me (guy was 120 kilos) and it doesn't work every time .My point is , there is a physical limit to this kind of blocking ,


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## futsaowingchun (May 6, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am trying to not post in the Wing Chun section much these days but from a Taijiquan perspective that makes me think of Peng (Ward Off) and there is structure meaning rooted, aligned and unification of upper and lower
> 
> It is an outward expanding and moving energy.  It is responding to incoming energy by sticking to that energy while maintaining one's own posture and thereby bounces back the incoming force, think hitting an inflated inner tube or an inflated rubber kickball.  You are not really responding to force with force to block, or ward off the attack.  Peng is a whole unified body response, which is centered, well rooted and able to absorb and return the incoming force



This is how it feels in my bridge when I connect my bridge feels like rubber or more like a big hose with water running through it. BTW I dont need to be rooted i can be doing anything and still do this,,I have also done this with someone who is a power lifter throw a hard  round kick and i was able to do the same thing in the video. there is no damage or pain to me but the more force you throw at me the more painful it will come back to you.


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## Xue Sheng (May 7, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> This is how it feels in my bridge when I connect my bridge feels like rubber or more like a big hose with water running through it. BTW I dont need to be rooted i can be doing anything and still do this,,I have also done this with someone who is a power lifter throw a hard  round kick and i was able to do the same thing in the video. there is no damage or pain to me but the more force you throw at me the more painful it will come back to you.



I would put to you that if you did this, and were not physically moved, meaning stayed in place, you were rooted. Rooting can be right or left only or it can be both, however both is referred to as double weighted which is generally not what you want to be in a live situation, although it does on occasion have its uses.

Also, technically, in Taijiquan, it is not a block, although it can be used as one. It ii used more as in giving yourself space or bouncing the other guy away.


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## Xue Sheng (May 7, 2015)

I should also add there is such a thing, a rather important thing as it applies to fighting actually, as a moving root too


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## Marnetmar (May 7, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> I should also add there is such a thing, a rather important thing as it applies to fighting actually, as a moving root too



This.

If you sink in a Wing Chun stance properly (principles of Kim Sut and Lok Ma), you be able to root and still be mobile. Problem is that proper Kim Sut and Lok Ma are quite hard to achieve, especially if you're somebody with a short achilles tendon like myself.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 7, 2015)

I think you are using the word "structure" to mean something different from the way I use it. From my perspective, you absolutely had reasonably solid structure behind your blocks. Much better structure than the guy throwing the attacks anyway.

Of course you also had the fact that you are twice the size of your demo partner. The demonstration would be much more impressive if the roles were reversed and the results were the same.


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## Xue Sheng (May 7, 2015)

Marnetmar said:


> This.
> 
> If you sink in a Wing Chun stance properly (principles of Kim Sut and Lok Ma), you be able to root and still be mobile. Problem is that proper Kim Sut and Lok Ma are quite hard to achieve, especially if you're somebody with a short achilles tendon like myself.



you can root and be mobile standing up normally and walking too. but I should add everything I am talking about comes from my Taiji background, I have little in Wing Chun.


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## JPinAZ (May 7, 2015)

futsaowingchun said:


> This is how it feels in my bridge when I connect my bridge feels like rubber or more like a big hose with water running through it. BTW I dont need to be rooted i can be doing anything and still do this,,I have also done this with someone who is a power lifter throw a hard  round kick and i was able to do the same thing in the video. there is no damage or pain to me but the more force you throw at me the more painful it will come back to you.



Not saying it can't be done, but I think it would be more interesting to see you do this against the power lifter. Then again, being a power lifter doesn't necessarily mean someone knows how to kick. Just to play devil's advocate, have you done this against someone with a few years of good kicking experience? I know some MT kickers that generate a HUGE amount of force at the end of their kicks (normal size and not even power lifters), and this would be much more surprising/impressive to see this work against someone with powerful kicks without you moving in or cutting of the kick before it makes it's full arc. Again, not saying you can't, but this demo does have a large bit of a size/strength/skill level discrepancy...

At the least, it would be pretty easy to just swap rolls on the demo you did and have your student use the same idea against your punches. This would be a good show of someone smaller making it work against someone much bigger/more powerful (since you are nearly twice his size). IMO, this would also go a long way to showing usability of the ideas for a normal student vs. someone with a long amount of training time against someone smaller/less experience


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## futsaowingchun (May 9, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I think you are using the word "structure" to mean something different from the way I use it. From my perspective, you absolutely had reasonably solid structure behind your blocks. Much better structure than the guy throwing the attacks anyway.
> 
> Of course you also had the fact that you are twice the size of your demo partner. The demonstration would be much more impressive if the roles were reversed and the results were the same.




Yes,I agree it would be you have to develope the skill first..I will have to find a much bigger oppoenet next time..


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