# In defense of others using a sword



## Ceicei (Apr 23, 2013)

Interesting local news article.  I thought I'd like to share this with you.  We never know when we may need to use our hands and/or martial weapons.

Ceicei

Please let me know if the link below doesn't work.

Mormon bishop with Samurai sword runs off attacker, http://fxn.ws/11iINke - Sent via the FOX News Android App.


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## Drasken (Apr 24, 2013)

My friend Tom used his sword when a man started harrassing an old woman in the apartment next door. The guy apparently was on drugs and was arrested within 12 minutes of the attempted assault and robbery. Since then he has purchased a gun and actually pulled it during an attempted robbery of his own apartment. He is currently trying to move, for obvious reasons.

My other friend that we call JC used a machette to break up a domestic disturbance and placed the man who was beating his wife in the parking lot under a citizen's arrest until cops arrived 3 minutes later.

So this story doesn't surprise me. You never know when your training and your weapons may be needed for defense of yourself or others.
I hopefully will never need to use my training again in my life, but you never know.


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## harlan (Apr 24, 2013)

'And I've got your chapstick too, buddy!'

Seriously....sounds like '30 years of martial arts training' down the toilet.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 24, 2013)

How different that story would be if it happened in this country - "Psycho Samurai Mormon arrested for weapons offences" is not quite the story you'd hope for but that's what we'd get.


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## MJS (Apr 24, 2013)

I just read this story elsewhere on the web.  Good for him.  I'm sure some may look at the weapon of choice and think it was a bit much, but it is what it is.  He did a good thing IMO.


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## harlan (Apr 24, 2013)

And rightly so. You know, where I come from, you don't show it unless you are gonna use it. The attacker did the idiot a favor by running away.



Sukerkin said:


> How different that story would be if it happened in this country - "Psycho Samurai Mormon arrested for weapons offences" is not quite the story you'd hope for but that's what we'd get.


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## Ceicei (Apr 24, 2013)

So far, it doesn't look like the sword owner will be charged for showing his sword with a defensive purpose.

Ceicei


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## chinto (Apr 25, 2013)

it happened in the USA and even the east coast states still have as far as I know the right to defend others.... so unlikely he would be able to be effectively charged with anything... Now from what I understand in much of Europe and definitely the UK, he would have been arrested for daring to resist that poor thug on behalf of that woman!


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 25, 2013)

That's an example of doing the right thing in slightly the wrong way.


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 25, 2013)

I guess he literally put the fear of god in him.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 26, 2013)

Kudos to him for doing the right thing, but did anybody else notice that his grip was wrong?


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## harlan (Apr 26, 2013)

And your comparing it to...what? A bonafide sword art?

This is a '4th dan' you are questioning....maybe the grip is appropriate for 'Kishindo'. 

http://kishindo.com/


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## Aiki Lee (Apr 29, 2013)

I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous to me. I'm glad someone went to the aid of another person; that's good, but weilding a sword against a person commiting a simple battery is a serious issue of escalation of force. What would he have done if the guy lunged at him, killed him with the sword? There's no way you could argue that would be reasonable force. He's lucky the guy ran, not the other way around. 

Again, I'm glad that things ended up turning out ok, but this could have gone very, very badly.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 29, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous to me. I'm glad someone went to the aid of another person; that's good, but weilding a sword against a person commiting a simple battery is a serious issue of escalation of force. What would he have done if the guy lunged at him, killed him with the sword? There's no way you could argue that would be reasonable force. He's lucky the guy ran, not the other way around.
> 
> Again, I'm glad that things ended up turning out ok, but this could have gone very, very badly.



Smack him with the saya, causing the sageo to wrap around his throat and then use it like one of those things the animal control people use on mean dogs. :rofl:


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## Drasken (Apr 29, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous to me. I'm glad someone went to the aid of another person; that's good, but weilding a sword against a person commiting a simple battery is a serious issue of escalation of force. What would he have done if the guy lunged at him, killed him with the sword? There's no way you could argue that would be reasonable force. He's lucky the guy ran, not the other way around.
> 
> Again, I'm glad that things ended up turning out ok, but this could have gone very, very badly.



Eh, it's not common for someone that is unarmed to lunge at a sword wielding maniac. Unless they're on something.
If the guy DID lunge then just turn the sword and bash him in the face. Also using the back of the blade in combination with your shoulder to trip him after that is possible. There are many things you can do if trained. However the better idea would have been to go out there with sword on your side. That way you can draw the weapon if the guy has a knife or bat or something.

I agree things could have become really bad, really quickly. But honestly this guy did the right thing. And personally I think that anyone rushing an armed man who is only trying to defend themselves or justifiably defend others... Well if there are witnesses to back up the story I think the idiot rushing the armed man deserves what he gets.


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## pgsmith (Apr 30, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous to me. I'm glad someone went to the aid of another person; that's good, but weilding a sword against a person commiting a simple battery is a serious issue of escalation of force. What would he have done if the guy lunged at him, killed him with the sword? There's no way you could argue that would be reasonable force. He's lucky the guy ran, not the other way around.


  If it were me, absolutely I'd kill him if he lunged at me. Anyone stupid enough to attack a sword wielding individual has to be on some pretty powerful drugs, and therefore cannot be expected to do anything reasonable such as not killing me. Ergo, I kill him first. I believe Utah has a law stating that deadly force can be used against someone involved in a felony offense, which he was since he was assaulting the neighbor.

  I'm glad that the guy with the sword ran off the attacker. However, it does reveal a little bit about the inner workings of a lot of martial artists. The sword fellow tells the reporter "that doesn't happen often, this is a very quiet neighborhood."  however, the fellow's wife tells the reporter that he keeps his sword by the bed for 20 years?


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## harlan (Apr 30, 2013)

Tells a lot about a subcategory of those that study MA...



pgsmith said:


> However, it does reveal a little bit about the inner workings of a lot of martial artists. The sword fellow tells the reporter "that doesn't happen often, this is a very quiet neighborhood." however, the fellow's wife tells the reporter that he keeps his sword by the bed for 20 years?



Frankly, it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. A sword by your bedside...just hand an intruder your preferred method of demise.

A little unstable...don't you think? If it was a gun, 'responsible' weapon owners are told to keep them locked up.


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## pgsmith (Apr 30, 2013)

harlan said:
			
		

> Frankly, it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. A sword by your bedside...just hand an intruder your preferred method of demise.
> 
> A little unstable...don't you think? If it was a gun, 'responsible' weapon owners are told to keep them locked up.


More than a little unstable in my opinion! I don't keep mine locked away, but they sit in a rack, not at the bedside! However, I've met a lot of that type of martial artist. These are the ones that do martial arts so others will call them "sensei", and they can tell people about how their hands and feet are registered as "deadly weapons". These types introduce themselves as "master" and will get belligerent if you're unimpressed. They'll also take a "menacing pose" with their "samurai sword" for the media.  A fellow did a video interview of me a number of years back for the Dallas Morning News. He asked me to do a "menacing pose" with my sword, and I told him I wasn't going to do that.

  Of course, this is all just gossip and supposition on my part as I've never met the fellow.


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## Aiki Lee (Apr 30, 2013)

Would anyone here have threatened the guy with a knife or firearm? I doubt it. You don't wield a deadly weapon unless you are prepared to use it, and if he was prepared to use it he would have faced serious charges. It's idiocy.


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 30, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I'm sorry, but this seems ridiculous to me. I'm glad someone went to the aid of another person; that's good, but weilding a sword against a person commiting a simple battery is a serious issue of escalation of force. What would he have done if the guy lunged at him, killed him with the sword? There's no way you could argue that would be reasonable force. He's lucky the guy ran, not the other way around.
> 
> Again, I'm glad that things ended up turning out ok, but this could have gone very, very badly.



Also it tells you a lot about the guy's confidence in his martial art skills that he has to resort to getting out his sword rather than dealing with the criminal unarmed. he had been sleeping with the sword by his bed for 20 years just waiting for an excuse to use it.


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## harlan (May 1, 2013)

And it's this example that gives MAists a 'bad name'. There's an old (Mahayana/Tibetan) saying: 'those attracted to XXX are probably the least suited to it.'

It's bad enough, the snickers and roll-eyes I will get when I'm asked about martial arts. Try discussing 'kobudo'. 



pgsmith said:


> More than a little unstable in my opinion! I don't keep mine locked away, but they sit in a rack, not at the bedside! However, I've met a lot of that type of martial artist. These are the ones that do martial arts so others will call them "sensei", and they can tell people about how their hands and feet are registered as "deadly weapons". These types introduce themselves as "master" and will get belligerent if you're unimpressed. They'll also take a "menacing pose" with their "samurai sword" for the media.  A fellow did a video interview of me a number of years back for the Dallas Morning News. He asked me to do a "menacing pose" with my sword, and I told him I wasn't going to do that.
> 
> Of course, this is all just gossip and supposition on my part as I've never met the fellow.



Suffice it to say, 'No'; I would not defend another using a sword - unless there was blood on the ground, probably another bladed weapon in use, and death was certain. I think those that don't understand this have probably never faced or used a bladed weapon in a life/death situation.


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