# How many are Hapkidoists?



## oftheherd1 (Feb 24, 2017)

We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).

Are you belted?  Do you still study?

In my case I attained a 2nd Degree black belt in 1987.  I have trained to 3rd, but never tested.  I study on my own when I can.  I have had some health issues that are slowly getting better, but I don't know for sure of any Hapkido schools in the area with the exception of Maryland where they may be 1 or 2, and in the Woodbridge area of VA.  At least there used to be. 

There are of course a lot of schools, usually TKD, that advertise also teaching Hapkido.  Most seem only to know a few techniques, which they may teach better or worse.

As Hapkido students would know, it isn't a popular art for some reason, even in Korea.  I have never been sure why.  It may be the violence of the techniques, the throwing/breakfalls,  or something else.  It could also the aversion of moving into attacks, or fear of not being able to achieve the speed and accuracy needed.  Any Hapkido students have any ideas on that?


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 24, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).
> 
> Are you belted?  Do you still study?
> 
> ...


As an aside, OTH, if you want to find something with similar elements, look for an NGA school. There may be one near you, and I think you'd recognize many parts of what goes on there. We use many of the same throws/locks. We both strike (though I think kicks may be more commonly used in Hapkido). It's a different approach, from what I've seen of Hapkido, but some definite similarities.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 2, 2017)

Thanks.  I actually considered that some years ago, but there was only one locally and that only on Saturday mornings.  It just didn't fit my schedule.  I think it might have been interesting if I could have. 

And yes, we do a lot of kicks.  We use them for cardio, offense, and defense.


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## Kong Soo Do (Mar 18, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).
> 
> Are you belted?  Do you still study?



5th Dan.  I still study and teach, though not under the HKD label.  

If one can get past the fluff, choreography and refined motor skill things that don't work will under duress, HKD can be a very fine art to learn for self defense.  Keep it simple, direct and fluid and it works well.


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## JP3 (Mar 19, 2017)

When I moved down from Missouri to Texas after undergrad I found a school near to my apartment which was a TKD/HKD school.  I was a 2nd degree black in TKD then, and the instructor there was a dual 2nd degree in TKD & HKD, running his school to try to make a business out of it eventually. We got along well (read... had a good time drinking beer together), so I offered and he accepted, to train my teaching 2 to 3 of his TKD classes a week to give him some time for other things in exchange for no-charge Hapkido classes.  Eventually I worked it up over quit e along time to 4th degree in both TKD and HKD but that took a long time and while fun, it ended up being... not wasted, not that at all, just a different chapter of my MA history, maybe.  Does that make sense?

Now, after doing so much aikido and compare-contrasting it with Hapkido... I don't really think of myself as a Hapkido guy any longer... but I'm definitely not a "typical" aikidoka, either. I acknowledge that and accept it.


But, hey... if there's ever a guy who says Anything can be effective as long as you persist in your training in the correct mindset... it'd be me, so Hapkido, to me, is great. As is everything else.  Well, maybe except for sword people. I don't get sword people. You can carry a gun, you can't carry a sword. You can use yur empty hands, you can't use  sword. Why train in sword?

(I will now sit back and await the results of the above trolling post.)


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## Hanshi (Jun 1, 2017)

I like Hapkido and eventually reached 6th dan in it and also in Taekwondo.  But I am this rank in aikido, too, which hapkido resembles more than anything else.  Depending on the instructor it can vary a lot between schools.  Yes there are lots of kicks but they are often quite different from TKD.  I taught both for years and a student of mine now teaches it as I retired and sold my school some years back.  I still train and teach  some at a TKD/HKD school where I now live.  My age is not the problem but rather some serious genetic afflictions.  Even with kicks and strikes, HKD is still a circular & soft art that works for defending oneself.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 2, 2017)

Hanshi said:


> I like Hapkido and eventually reached 6th dan in it and also in Taekwondo.  But I am this rank in aikido, too, which hapkido resembles more than anything else.  Depending on the instructor it can vary a lot between schools.  Yes there are lots of kicks but they are often quite different from TKD.  I taught both for years and a student of mine now teaches it as I retired and sold my school some years back.  I still train and teach  some at a TKD/HKD school where I now live.  My age is not the problem but rather some serious genetic afflictions.  Even with kicks and strikes, HKD is still a circular & soft art that works for defending oneself.



Sounds like you have spent a lot of time training and teaching.  I envy you.  You describe Hapkido pretty well.  But as you said, different instructors may teach a little differently.


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## Instructor (Jul 5, 2017)

I consider myself a Hapkidoin.  I've attained third dan.  I've dabbled in other arts over the years and even earned dan rank in one but in my heart Hapkido will always be the art for me.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 6, 2017)

Instructor said:


> I consider myself a Hapkidoin.  I've attained third dan.  I've dabbled in other arts over the years and even earned dan rank in one but in my heart Hapkido will always be the art for me.



Nice to see you posting again Instructor.  Hope all is going well for you.  Did you ever get to build the flying machine you wanted?


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## Instructor (Jul 6, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> Nice to see you posting again Instructor.  Hope all is going well for you.  Did you ever get to build the flying machine you wanted?



I'm about 1/4 way through construction...


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 6, 2017)

Instructor said:


> I'm about 1/4 way through construction...



Neat.


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## Instructor (Jul 6, 2017)

It's an old joke 90% done 90% to go.


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## Raymond (Jul 7, 2017)

I consider myself a Hapkido stylist even though I cross train in kickboxing (mainly American style and Superfoot System) and BJJ (I've done many other arts but those are the three I am most passionate about).  I achieved a 1st dan under an instructor who taught TKD and HKD side by side, which seems very common.  

I was just thinking that out of all the places that teach TKD and HKD together, at what point does it "become a new style" altogether?  I don't mean someone who has a TKD class where you just do TKD, and then a HKD class where you just do HKD.  But I mean a full integration of  of the two with unique transitions between ranges and techniques that aren't quit found when the two arts are practiced separately.  Mind you this i just a rhetorical question, not looking for a specific answer


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## skribs (Jul 11, 2017)

There's several reasons I can think of why hapkido isn't popular:


The moves look fake (until you have them done on you)
A lot of the moves aren't flashy (compared to a fancy jumping kick or a quick flurry of fast punches)
The only person who remotely does Hapkido in movies is Steven Seagal, who does Aikido and has a bad reputation in the media as of late
A lot of what is taught in hapkido won't work in MMA because they're not allowed or because wrists are wrapped
There isn't a competitive hapkido circuit (to my knowledge)
Hapkido isn't popular (popularity means more schools, more innovation, more support, more products designed for the art, etc)
My master teaches Taekwondo and Hapkido, and while he is better credentialed at Taekwondo, I have no doubt that he is a master of Hapkido as well.  I teach taekwondo as a 2nd dan and I take hapkido as a yellow belt.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Raymond said:


> I consider myself a Hapkido stylist even though I cross train in kickboxing (mainly American style and Superfoot System) and BJJ (I've done many other arts but those are the three I am most passionate about).  I achieved a 1st dan under an instructor who taught TKD and HKD side by side, which seems very common.
> 
> I was just thinking that out of all the places that teach TKD and HKD together, at what point does it "become a new style" altogether?  I don't mean someone who has a TKD class where you just do TKD, and then a HKD class where you just do HKD.  But I mean a full integration of  of the two with unique transitions between ranges and techniques that aren't quit found when the two arts are practiced separately.  Mind you this i just a rhetorical question, not looking for a specific answer



I think you would be better able to answer that.  My experience with TKD was in the mid-60s, and only to 8th Green.  My experience with Hapkido was training to 3rd Dan, but never testing beyond 2nd Dan.  In the Hapkido I studied, we did kicks and punches.  But of course the emphasis was on grappling.  Learning and practicing punches and kicks more would not hurt, but would one then not have to either spend less time on grappling, or have to extend the time between levels?  That probably would not have bothered me, but especially in the US, I suspect most people would not like to have to prolong advancement.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 11, 2017)

skribs said:


> There's several reasons I can think of why hapkido isn't popular:
> 
> 
> The moves look fake (until you have them done on you)
> ...




Good points.  I have often wondered if a lot of the touching we do might not put off women studying Hapkido.  Or maybe the violence of the techniques if carried all the way through with full force.

I have never tried to take on a person with wrapped wrists, have you?  It just doesn't seem like that should make such a difference, since it seems it still should put pressure on the wrists against the tape.  But as I said, I have never tried it.

Interestingly enough, the first time I saw Hapkido demonstrated, I thought it was fake as well.  When I began my studies I was quickly relieved of those misconceptions.  *;-)*


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## Raymond (Aug 1, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> Good points.  I have often wondered if a lot of the touching we do might not put off women studying Hapkido.  Or maybe the violence of the techniques if carried all the way through with full force.
> 
> I have never tried to take on a person with wrapped wrists, have you?  It just doesn't seem like that should make such a difference, since it seems it still should put pressure on the wrists against the tape.  But as I said, I have never tried it.
> 
> Interestingly enough, the first time I saw Hapkido demonstrated, I thought it was fake as well.  When I began my studies I was quickly relieved of those misconceptions.  *;-)*



The point of wrapping hands and wrists in arts like boxing is to compress the small bones together so that they do not crash into each other from further distances apart when striking something.  The idea being if they are already compressed, then the jolt won't FORCE them into each other.  Like the difference between trying to break bricks that are spaced apart on a stand compared to trying to break bricks that are not spaced and stacked on the ground.  That is the logic behind the idea that a wrist lock is less effective in a competition like MMA where the hands are wrapped.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 1, 2017)

Raymond said:


> The point of wrapping hands and wrists in arts like boxing is to compress the small bones together so that they do not crash into each other from further distances apart when striking something.  The idea being if they are already compressed, then the jolt won't FORCE them into each other.  Like the difference between trying to break bricks that are spaced apart on a stand compared to trying to break bricks that are not spaced and stacked on the ground.  That is the logic behind the idea that a wrist lock is less effective in a competition like MMA where the hands are wrapped.



Thanks for the explanation.  I still don't see how it would affect the Hapkido techniques I learned, other than perhaps protecting pressure points.  I know a couple of boxers, I will talk to them.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 26, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).
> 
> Are you belted?  Do you still study?
> 
> ...



I am still, and likely always will be an old CMA guy, andvI can't call myself a Hapkidoists or a Hapkidoin, but I am checking out a Hapkido school this week.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 27, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> Good points.  I have often wondered if a lot of the touching we do might not put off women studying Hapkido.  Or maybe the violence of the techniques if carried all the way through with full force.
> 
> I have never tried to take on a person with wrapped wrists, have you?  It just doesn't seem like that should make such a difference, since it seems it still should put pressure on the wrists against the tape.  But as I said, I have never tried it.
> 
> Interestingly enough, the first time I saw Hapkido demonstrated, I thought it was fake as well.  When I began my studies I was quickly relieved of those misconceptions.  *;-)*


I just saw this. If the taping covers the joint being targeted, it should make the technique less effective in most cases. I can tell the difference if someone's fingers slip down onto my wrist during a wrist lock, and that's not nearly as much support. Now, I can't say with any certainty that it would stop the techniques from doing their job, but it would almost certainly reduce the odds of success.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 28, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> I am still, and likely always will be an old CMA guy, andvI can't call myself a Hapkidoists or a Hapkidoin, but I am checking out a Hapkido school this week.



I hope you enjoy it.  I don't know much about CMA, but I think you will find the concepts different.  Of course it depends on the school too.  Some Hapkido schools are sport oriented from what I hear.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 28, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I just saw this. If the taping covers the joint being targeted, it should make the technique less effective in most cases. I can tell the difference if someone's fingers slip down onto my wrist during a wrist lock, and that's not nearly as much support. Now, I can't say with any certainty that it would stop the techniques from doing their job, but it would almost certainly reduce the odds of success.



I can see what you are saying.  And since I don't have any experience with that I can't speak definitively.  But the type of wrist lock I am speaking of normally the fingers of one hand would be on the person's wrist by intent.  Even if I were grabbing the hand, it would more often be my hands on each side of the opponent's hand. 

But as I said, I don't have experience with that.  I will have to try that at my first opportunity and see what happens.  Thanks to all for pointing out the possibility of needing extra care on my part.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 28, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> I can see what you are saying.  And since I don't have any experience with that I can't speak definitively.  But the type of wrist lock I am speaking of normally the fingers of one hand would be on the person's wrist by intent.  Even if I were grabbing the hand, it would more often be my hands on each side of the opponent's hand.
> 
> But as I said, I don't have experience with that.  I will have to try that at my first opportunity and see what happens.  Thanks to all for pointing out the possibility of needing extra care on my part.


Not knowing the specific lock, I obviously can't speak to that one. There are some locks where the effect is probably minimal (even non-existent, perhaps, in one I can think of). There are some where the effect would be more profound. I'll be interested in hearing the results of our experimentation.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 28, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> I hope you enjoy it.  I don't know much about CMA, but I think you will find the concepts different.  Of course it depends on the school too.  Some Hapkido schools are sport oriented from what I hear.



First style I started with, back in the stone age, was Japanese Jujutsu, after that I went to Taekwondo before it was an Olympic sport.....then I went CMA probably around the time of the renaissance....(yeah I'm old).... I am hoping I too am hoping I enjoy Hapkido.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 28, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> First style I started with, back in the stone age, was Japanese Jujutsu, after that I went to Taekwondo before it was an Olympic sport.....then I went CMA probably around the time of the renaissance....(yeah I'm old).... I am hoping I too am hoping I enjoy Hapkido.



I try not to brag about it too much here on MT, but I used to advise a general.  I always told him what I thought too.  I remember one time during a battle, turning to the general and sternly saying "Moses ..."

And you think you are old?   

Please let us know your impression of Hapkido after a class or two.


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## MasterArtMason (Oct 20, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).
> 
> Are you belted?  Do you still study?
> 
> ...



My root is Hapkido, but I have added so much to it from other arts now it does not look anything the same.


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## oftheherd1 (Oct 20, 2017)

MasterArtMason said:


> My root is Hapkido, but I have added so much to it from other arts now it does not look anything the same.



I don't think that is unusual for any martial artist in any martial art.  I think we all see things we like enough to incorporate into our own personal tool box.

Would you like to tell us a little more about yourself in the Meet and Greet sub-forum?


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## MasterArtMason (Oct 20, 2017)

oftheherd1 said:


> I don't think that is unusual for any martial artist in any martial art.  I think we all see things we like enough to incorporate into our own personal tool box.
> 
> Would you like to tell us a little more about yourself in the Meet and Greet sub-forum?



Yes sure I will do that!


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## carltonlundy.com (Jan 4, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> We don't see much activity in the Hapkido thread.  I was just wondering how many consider themselves Hapkidoists (or Hapkidoin if you prefer).
> 
> Are you belted?  Do you still study?
> 
> ...


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## carltonlundy.com (Jan 4, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> I don't think that is unusual for any martial artist in any martial art.  I think we all see things we like enough to incorporate into our own personal tool box.
> 
> Would you like to tell us a little more about yourself in the Meet and Greet sub-forum?


I am a certified fifth degree in the Hampton roads area. I have more than forty years in the study of Korean Hapkido. I was a member of the World Hapkido Federation and promoted to fifth by its founder. I was awarded my 1st degree in 1976 in South Korea endorsed by GM Ji Han Jae then Head of the Korean Hapkido Association in Seoul Korea, My instructor at the time was Master Pak Son Han of Kunsan Korea where he taught for a number of years,

   The reason Hapkido is not widely taught is that it is highly effective. It requires expert instruction which without advanced techniques can not be taught.  Most people do not have the time nor the skill to teach it effectively. I thank God for having meet some of the best Hapkido Masters on the planet .Master Carlton Lundy a life time practitioner, To God be the Glory.


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## oftheherd1 (Jan 5, 2018)

carltonlundy.com said:


> I am a certified fifth degree in the Hampton roads area. I have more than forty years in the study of Korean Hapkido. I was a member of the World Hapkido Federation and promoted to fifth by its founder. I was awarded my 1st degree in 1976 in South Korea endorsed by GM Ji Han Jae then Head of the Korean Hapkido Association in Seoul Korea, My instructor at the time was Master Pak Son Han of Kunsan Korea where he taught for a number of years,
> 
> The reason Hapkido is not widely taught is that it is highly effective. It requires expert instruction which without advanced techniques can not be taught.  Most people do not have the time nor the skill to teach it effectively. I thank God for having meet some of the best Hapkido Masters on the planet .Master Carlton Lundy a life time practitioner, To God be the Glory.



I was at Camp Humphreys from 74-76.  I first saw Hapkido demonstrated on Korean TV, along with a lot of other Korean MA.  At first I thought it was just fake, that the practitioners were simulating the pain and inability to get up right away.  Ha!  I eventually learned the error of my ways.


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## oftheherd1 (Jan 5, 2018)

carltonlundy.com said:


> I am a certified fifth degree in the Hampton roads area. I have more than forty years in the study of Korean Hapkido. I was a member of the World Hapkido Federation and promoted to fifth by its founder. I was awarded my 1st degree in 1976 in South Korea endorsed by GM Ji Han Jae then Head of the Korean Hapkido Association in Seoul Korea, My instructor at the time was Master Pak Son Han of Kunsan Korea where he taught for a number of years,
> 
> The reason Hapkido is not widely taught is that it is highly effective. It requires expert instruction which without advanced techniques can not be taught.  Most people do not have the time nor the skill to teach it effectively. I thank God for having meet some of the best Hapkido Masters on the planet .Master Carlton Lundy a life time practitioner, To God be the Glory.



I tend to agree Hapkido is not widely taught, and I suspect the reason you mention is one of them.  Also, what I mentioned above.  Not everybody wishes to find themselves flying through the air, or wondering why our practice opponent didn't stop on the first tap.  But it is all good, as you would know. 

I studied under Lee (Yi) Chong Moon (Mun), depending on the transliteration you wish to use.  He had schools throughout Seoul, including at Yong Son.  An incredible practitioner and teacher.


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## Hanshi (Mar 24, 2018)

While I've studied hapkido and some other martial arts, I do not consider myself a hapkidoist, aikidoka, judoka or anything else.  While one may fall back upon the art of first choice or some other, It's folly to paint one's self in a particular corner (style) *if* one has seriously studied/ranked in more than just one.  One thing I've learned over more than 55 years of study is that at some level it becomes just one "art".  I mean, a throw is just a throw and a punch is just a punch.  If I do a wrist lock throw on an opponent, it's not aikido, hapkido, judo or karate; it's just a wrist lock throw.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 24, 2018)

Hanshi said:


> While I've studied hapkido and some other martial arts, I do not consider myself a hapkidoist, aikidoka, judoka or anything else.  While one may fall back upon the art of first choice or some other, It's folly to paint one's self in a particular corner (style) *if* one has seriously studied/ranked in more than just one.  One thing I've learned over more than 55 years of study is that at some level it becomes just one "art".  I mean, a throw is just a throw and a punch is just a punch.  If I do a wrist lock throw on an opponent, it's not aikido, hapkido, judo or karate; it's just a wrist lock throw.


IMO, in the end, the styles are just a way to get to technique. Sometimes the technique you get to isn't even in the style - it's just a result of the principles and the way you apply them.


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