# Stand up and fight..



## Gray Phoenix (Jan 29, 2005)

I have only a limited experience with Jujitsu styles outside of my own, but I've noticed that many of the posts under the Jujitsu heading are focused on throws and ground work. I know that the throws and ground work are integral to Jujitsu, but I also see many articles in various MA mags that are critical of my art not being very effective against multiple attackers, and having to go to the ground in order be of use. My particular style has a fair amount of stand up techniques taken from Kenpo in addition to the "normal" Jujitsu strikes. 

Bottom Line: I dont care if I'm on the ground or not. 



I'm interested in other peoples take on Jujitsu's ability to stay on its feet

.:nuke:


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## The Prof (Jan 29, 2005)

Gray Phoenix said:
			
		

> I have only a limited experience with Jujitsu styles outside of my own, but I've noticed that many of the posts under the Jujitsu heading are focused on throws and ground work. I know that the throws and ground work are integral to Jujitsu, but I also see many articles in various MA mags that are critical of my art not being very effective against multiple attackers, and having to go to the ground in order be of use. My particular style has a fair amount of stand up techniques taken from Kenpo in addition to the "normal" Jujitsu strikes.
> 
> Bottom Line: I dont care if I'm on the ground or not.
> 
> ...


I believe that those who would say that Ju Jitsu is not effective against multipal attackers have no clue of what Ju Jitsu really is. Anyone that has ever studied with me or any of my people would certainly tell a different story.

Don't let it get to you, continue to train and enjoy what you are learning.

Remember this, "he who speaks does not know, he who does not speak, knows."


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## MJS (Jan 29, 2005)

I agree with the Prof.   The thing that many people forget when they hear JJ, especially BJJ, is automatically think GROUND.  This of course, is not the case, due to the fact that many tehcs. that are applied while on the ground can be applied while standing.

As for the mult. attackers...that, like all aspects of ones training, is something that needs to be drilled.  It is possible to use your JJ on one attacker, while at the same time, using him as a 'shield' against the others.

Mike


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## Muad'Dib (Jan 29, 2005)

I think many Martial Artist tend to forget that untrained people really don't know how to fall so when you throw them across the room, they are in some pain. I heard one story about a Martial Artist in a bar that got a roundhouse thown at him and he threw the guy to the floor an the impact split the attackers head open.


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## Gray Phoenix (Jan 30, 2005)

Thanks for the input. My favorite aspect of Jujitsu is the ability to control a situation. If its a drunken friend that needs to me taken from a room or someone that thinks my fiancé would be better off in their car rather than mine. I know I will be confident enough in my art to "stand and deliver" or ground grapple in any situation. 

:soapbox: 
It just really chaps my hide to have the most public face of Jujitsu focus only on ground work and wrestling around in a sterile environment so that the expensive seats in Vegas can get their moneys worth in blood splatter.


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## SammyB57 (Jan 30, 2005)

Throws are deadly.


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## spatulahunter (Jan 30, 2005)

In our daito ryu and hakko ryu jujutsu we focus on three different stances suwari (sitting), handachi (half standing) and tachi (standing). We dont restrict ourselves to just ground fighting. In hakko ryu all of our tachi moves keep tori in a standing position while taking uke to the ground.
As for the muiltiple attackers that is because certain jujutsu are not. Ive heard some of the brazilians say that what they do in the octagon is not effective against multiple attackers (things must be changed for streets). 
Also multiple attackers change how things must be done. While with a single attacker you may be able to restrain them and hold them down till help comes/ they calm down/ or something else of the like you cant do that with 2 attackers so you must know that you may have to be brutal (which we always hope we can avoid). If there are 4 guys circling you and you pick the ringleader and do some serious damage you may discourage the others ones from continuing.
As to what arts work best for multiple attackers. That is a can of worms that i wouldnt even dream of opening. Although i would personallly use my Wing Chun if i was attacked by multiple attackers, there may be others at the school i attend that would just more Jujutsu or Escrima or anything else. Basically you should use whatever you think is gonna get you away from the hectic situation the quickest


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## Gray Phoenix (Jan 31, 2005)

> Throws are deadly.


No doubt, but they lack the degree of control found in the more subtile techniques. Most of which are illegal in UFC.


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## Schtankybampo (Feb 1, 2005)

Hmm, well, Gray, I don't actually give a good gosh darn about what's legal in the UFC. I'm gonna do what I need to do to end the situation. Finishing an attacker in two moves or less leaves you time to deal with the crowd. 

I've noticed that almost every martial artist defends his or her art to the absolute death. Balanced individuals can admit that other arts have thier good points.


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## judokapont (Feb 2, 2005)

Just outa interest how many times have u guys fought multiple foes? not alot works !! ive worked as a nightclub doorman for 12 yrs and had plenty of kickings from groups of lads, no martial skill is going to save your *** you will get swamped pulled to the ground and kicked in, the only thing to do is hope you dont have a brain haemorrage, and that is the awfull truth. I ve worked with doormen trained in all sorts of arts but thyey have been beaten down once outnumbered.

any body who reckons they can tackle multiple foes are misguided fools and talking crap


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## Kempojujutsu (Feb 2, 2005)

Dealing with Multiple attackers. You must attack first. Do wait until they attack before you decide to do something. You must have very good foot work. You can not stay in one place while fighting. While the more attackers you have to face at once, the least likely you would be able to defend. But if you never practice it, just hurting yourself and your training.


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## Schtankybampo (Feb 2, 2005)

I may get the snot kicked out of me if you pile enough people on me, yes. But we do practice multiple attackers, because ignoring something difficult doesn't make it go away. I may not *win*, but I can minimize the damage, and maybe keep myself from getting badly mauled until help arrives. 

You might get me, but I'm taking an honor gaurd to Valhalla with me.


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## Gray Phoenix (Feb 2, 2005)

I agree that the more you face; the less likely you'll walk away from the brawl. I'll also agree that waiting for the fight to come to you may not be the best course of action. However, I would say that it depends on the distance to the attacker(s). A defensive yet inviting position is teh key to that first blow. Precision and control is key. The first punch/kick needs to shut down an aggressor quickly even if only for a moment, so that you can open up an escape route. 

Now back to the point: My problem is with the popular belief that Jujitsu is primarily a ground art not suitable for multiple attackers. This belief, I feel was instigated by BJJ/UFC.  My point is I know most styles of Jujitsu are able to go to ground, but only one makes it part of the plan. 

There are no rules in Jujitsu, and no its not that "Brazilian thing in that fighting show." 

Thoughts?


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## Gray Phoenix (Feb 2, 2005)

neat, I just got promotedartyon:


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## MJS (Feb 3, 2005)

Gray Phoenix said:
			
		

> Now back to the point: My problem is with the popular belief that Jujitsu is primarily a ground art not suitable for multiple attackers. This belief, I feel was instigated by BJJ/UFC.  My point is I know most styles of Jujitsu are able to go to ground, but only one makes it part of the plan.
> 
> There are no rules in Jujitsu, and no its not that "Brazilian thing in that fighting show."
> 
> Thoughts?



One thing to keep in mind here.  When the UFC first came about, it brought the BJJ craze with it.  People were thinking that this was the greatest thing that was ever created.  Now, I am a student of BJJ, so I'm certainly not knocking it, but we need to keep in mind, that everything will have its time and place.  Going to the ground is not something for every situation, but simply one aspect of the fight game.  

As I said before, a popular misconception is that when anyone hears BJJ, they automatically assume we're talking about the ground.  They seem to forget that there are techs. that are able to be done from a standing position.  

I certainly would not let this get to you.  Continue to train hard in your art, and get as much out of it as you can!  What matters is, as long as its something that you enjoy, who cares what the next guy thinks!

Mike


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## MJS (Feb 3, 2005)

Gray Phoenix said:
			
		

> neat, I just got promotedartyon:



Congrats on the promotion here on MT!!  As you continue to post, you'll notice that your MT rank will also change.  It goes by the number of posts that you make!

Mike


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## RanaHarmamelda (Feb 3, 2005)

"You might get me, but I'm taking an honor gaurd to Valhalla with me." 

Schtankybampo, that rocks. *grin*


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