# 81 years for weed?



## Carol (Apr 16, 2013)

http://www.vice.com/read/eighty-one-years-for-weed

A local activist, Rich Paul, is facing 81 years in the big house for selling weed and LSD to an FBI informant. Rich denies selling LSD (saying whatever it was, was a legal compound), but freely admits to selling the weed.

Rich is hoping for jury nullification.  Like self-defense, such a strategy is an affirmative defense.  The defendant admits that he broke the law, but shouldn't be charged because of xxxxx.  In Rich's case, he doesn't think he should be charged because the law is unjust.  In the state of NH, the defense has the right to inform juries that they may reach a not guilty verdict should they object to the law.

Personally?  I don't like weed.  But I can't get behind sending ol' Rich away for 86 years because he likes his green cigarettes.

What do you all think?


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## granfire (Apr 16, 2013)

how many truckloads did he sell?


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## Carol (Apr 16, 2013)

Over a pound.  I don't know how much over a pound.  But as this is the FBI, these are federal charges, not the typical state charges...in fact the state House of Representatives just approved a decriminalization bill.


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## granfire (Apr 16, 2013)

you don't get that much for killing people....


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## Makalakumu (Apr 17, 2013)

granfire said:


> you don't get that much for killing people....



Yeah, usually you get a medal for that.  :flame:

Seriously, what a crazy world where we glorify killers and lock people up for the wrong vegetations.  Thor help us all...


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## DennisBreene (Apr 17, 2013)

I suspect that New Hampshire is as likely a place to nullify in a situation like this as any. Everyone I've ever met from New Hampshire (that would be 2 people) has been a contrary SOB just on principle.


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## Em MacIntosh (Apr 17, 2013)

At least the streets are safe from that lunatic.  He'll be out in ten on "medical leave", twenty if he's lucky.


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## DennisBreene (Apr 17, 2013)

Em MacIntosh said:


> At least the streets are safe from that lunatic.  He'll be out in ten on "medical leave", twenty if he's lucky.



Well, if the weed he can get on the '"inside" is any good, it'll only seem like 10.


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## Tgace (Apr 17, 2013)

What do I think?

I think there is more to this story than weed....hell the DEA (who I work with routinely) won't even look at a weed case less than 50 lbs worth here. 

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tgace (Apr 17, 2013)

Tgace said:


> What do I think?
> 
> I think there is more to this story than weed....hell the DEA (who I work with routinely) won't even look at a weed case less than 50 lbs worth here.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



Add to this..the article is implying that a lone FBI agent is the driving force behind this prosecution. It doesn't work that way. Unless a US Attorney argees to prosecute the case a federal charge goes nowhere. These Feds dont do ANYTHING without the approval of an AUSA.

I (as a municipal LEO) can simply arrest someone whenever I have PC. In some cases we consult with the DA to be sure that they will prosecute for what we intend to arrest for. In almost ALL federal contacts I have had, these federal agents rarely do anything without the approval of their districts Assistant US Attorney.


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## celtic_crippler (Apr 17, 2013)

Priorities&#8230;

It&#8217;s all about our priorities isn&#8217;t it? 

What&#8217;s a good indicator of where our priorities are in regards to &#8220;crime&#8221;? How about the average punitive action in the form of jail time assigned to each &#8220;crime&#8221; on average? I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s a good yard stick, wouldn&#8217;t you? 



The average sentence for a person convicted of *child molestation* is four months and five years probation.
Though punishment for *rape* is not uniform in the US, the average time spent in jail by convicted rapists is 5.4 years.
Your first *DUI* will likely not land you in jail without there being other factors involved (say manslaughter for example), but your 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] DUI will and the sentence varies drastically from state to state and is largely up to the discretion of the judge.
*Possession of an illegal firearm* by a convicted felon is punishable by 5 years in prison without possibility of parole on average. An unregistered sawed off shotgun or fully automatic weapon can get you 10 years in the Federal Pen.
Laws regarding *prostitution* and *soliciting a prostitute* vary widely, but it seems in most cases it takes more than one arrest to get you jail time. And like DUI, the sentence may be at the discretion of the judge.
*2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Degree Vehicular Manslaughter* can get you anywhere from 1 to 10 years. *Involuntary Manslaughter* under Federal guidelines usually carries a sentence of 10 to 16 months.
 
Based on sentencing, it would seem that selling marijuana is a much more heinous crime than child molestation in the eyes of the average US citizen. Yet we have had presidents who have smoked it and they aren&#8217;t in jail. We&#8217;ve even had presidents who used cocaine. But if the sentencing of the offense is any indicator of our values, it would seem a president who molested children would be preferable. Interesting, isn&#8217;t it? 

If you&#8217;d like to compare other crimes, simply perform an internet search. The information&#8217;s available with minimal effort.


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## pgsmith (Apr 17, 2013)

It sounds to me like an unwilling informant. The FBI was probably trying to get an informant into a larger drug smuggling ring and the fellow that they hoped to use balked, so they are carrying through their threatened prosecution. Just what it seems like to me.


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## Drasken (Apr 17, 2013)

I agree that I think there is more to this story. Also, just because this guy says he wasn't selling LSD doesn't mean he wasn't. I knew someone caught with mushrooms. He tried to draw it out in court and keep having them retested hoping the compounds in the mushrooms would degrade and test negative so he could get out of his felony charge. Which of course isn't going to work.

Most cops I know, and keep in mind the conservative state I live in, won't even arrest people for weed anymore unless it's a large quantity or it's obviously a distributing charge. Cops here are focusing more on the meth and psychedelics problem.
If he WAS selling LSD that would account for the large amount of time. And if it is tested and comes back negative, his possible sentence will likely be drastically reduced.


I think charging that harshly just for weed is starting to become a thing of the past. But keep in mind that other drugs, guns in hands of criminals, violence... They all go hand in hand with the drug dealers. So don't just assume weed is the key factor here. The media seems to be omitting details to push an agenda.


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## Carol (Apr 17, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> It sounds to me like an unwilling informant. The FBI was probably trying to get an informant into a larger drug smuggling ring and the fellow that they hoped to use balked, so they are carrying through their threatened prosecution. Just what it seems like to me.



Me too.  According to Rich, he was offered a plea from the FBI before trial that would have involved no jail time had he agreed to wear a wire around his activist center and convince the other folks there to buy drugs from him.   He was not willing, and was very public with his unwillingness.   I doubt the center in question is a smuggling ring but there are plenty of people there who like their smoke, and don't like LE.


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## arnisador (Apr 17, 2013)

Legalize weed! It's time. I have to agree that there must be more to the story here.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 17, 2013)

81 years is the max sentence for all the charges he is facing.  He will NEVER EVER get the max.  I've locked up guys whos max penalties are in the 500+ year mark and they and up getting 3 to 5 out in 2 years.  Huge difference in maximum penalty and what someone is sentenced too.  
I also wonder why everyone is so quick to dismiss the LSD charge since that's where the bulk of the 81 penalty is coming from not the marijuana.  
They also have guidelines that set the sentence they look at prior arrests and convictions for same charges.  More convictions for same thing the more the sentence is going to be


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## Carol (Apr 17, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I also wonder why everyone is so quick to dismiss the LSD charge since that's where the bulk of the 81 penalty is coming from not the marijuana.



I don't know if everyone is being so quick to dismiss the LSD charge, I think the focus is on the marijuana because Rich is being so open to admitting its use.  Naturally we don't have counterpoint from the FBI's side.

Are the bulk of the charges really from the LSD?  This is a lot more in your area of expertise than mine.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 17, 2013)

Carol said:


> I don't know if everyone is being so quick to dismiss the LSD charge, I think the focus is on the marijuana because Rich is being so open to admitting its use.  Naturally we don't have counterpoint from the FBI's side.
> 
> Are the bulk of the charges really from the LSD?  This is a lot more in your area of expertise than mine.



Well if I remember correctly the penalty for selling 10 grams or more of LSD is min 10 yes max life in prison.  Under 10 grams not less then 5 us not more then 40.  
So depending on how much and how many times he's charged with it.  If I buy 1 gram from you on 2 different days my max charges would be 80 years.  
Now for the exact same sentences you would need 100 kilos of marijuana for the 5 to 40 yes. For the 10 to life you would need more then 1000 kilos.  

Now I might be off a little because I don't have the sentence guidelines in front of me I'm going off memory.  I can look up actual numbers later.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 17, 2013)

Its also different depending on his prior convictions


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## granfire (Apr 17, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Well if I remember correctly the penalty for selling 10 grams or more of LSD is min 10 yes max life in prison.  Under 10 grams not less then 5 us not more then 40.
> So depending on how much and how many times he's charged with it.  If I buy 1 gram from you on 2 different days my max charges would be 80 years.
> Now for the exact same sentences you would need 100 kilos of marijuana for the 5 to 40 yes. For the 10 to life you would need more then 1000 kilos.
> 
> Now I might be off a little because I don't have the sentence guidelines in front of me I'm going off memory.  I can look up actual numbers later.



are they still weighing the paper as part of the LSD?


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## Carol (Apr 17, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Well if I remember correctly the penalty for selling 10 grams or more of LSD is min 10 yes max life in prison.  Under 10 grams not less then 5 us not more then 40.
> So depending on how much and how many times he's charged with it.  If I buy 1 gram from you on 2 different days my max charges would be 80 years.
> Now for the exact same sentences you would need 100 kilos of marijuana for the 5 to 40 yes. For the 10 to life you would need more then 1000 kilos.
> 
> Now I might be off a little because I don't have the sentence guidelines in front of me I'm going off memory.  I can look up actual numbers later.



No worries about actual numbers -- to show the difference between buying 1 gram of LSD on two different days vs buying 100 kilos of marijuana shows a lot, even if its approximated.  Thanks :asian:


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## ballen0351 (Apr 17, 2013)

granfire said:


> are they still weighing the paper as part of the LSD?



They consider 1 hit to be .5 grams. But I honestly have never worked an LSD case so I don't know much about it I have only even seen it 2 or 3 times.vvits just not popular here.  PCP is the drug of choice to see cool stuff and start humping trees.  We have a ton of that here.


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## Carol (Apr 17, 2013)

According to some folks at the trial, a "lab geek" testified the substance was 2C-I, and not LSD.   The Book of All Knowledge says 2C-I was banned in June 2012, Rich was arrested in May 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C-I


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## Carol (Apr 18, 2013)

According to some folks at the trial, another "lab geek" said the substance was...something not favorable to Rich's case.  I don't know what it was, whether it was LSD (who the hell is making real LSD nowadays???)  or whether it was a "designer drug" analogue that was just as illegal.

The jury has returned a verdict of guilty on all counts.  Sentencing will be at a later date.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 18, 2013)

Carol said:


> According to some folks at the trial, another "lab geek" said the substance was...something not favorable to Rich's case.  I don't know what it was, whether it was LSD (who the hell is making real LSD nowadays???)  or whether it was a "designer drug" analogue that was just as illegal.
> 
> The jury has returned a verdict of guilty on all counts.  Sentencing will be at a later date.


Guess the jury believed the feds lab geek not his lab geek that it was LSD


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## Carol (Apr 18, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Guess the jury believed the feds lab geek not his lab geek that it was LSD



Sounds like it.  Probably doesn't help that he was taped offering "acid" to the undercover op.


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## Drasken (Apr 19, 2013)

Carol said:


> Sounds like it.  Probably doesn't help that he was taped offering "acid" to the undercover op.



Eh, acid is a general umbrella term now. It involves several chemical compounds, not just LSD, but all do the same thing to varrying degrees and all very illegal.

Sorry to say that this guy was very stupid and obviously needs to be off the street. Considering he was selling harder drugs as well, I hope the pro marijuana groups are smart enough to not back this idiot. Would not help their cause at all. And since he s selling a compound, whether it was LSD or a similar knockoff compound, he knew what it was and he knows WHAT it does obviously.

I have little pitty for him. It's not like any of these charges are truely false or a misrepresentation of his crimes. Hope he has fun in prison. :/


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## Carol (Jun 7, 2013)

Ol' Rich was sentenced today.  As it turns out, he's not going to prison.  Judge didn't think it would be appropriate.  

6 years suspended, plus a year in county, plus a $650 fine.

With good behaviour, he'll be out in 9 months, then he says he wants to move to a medical cannabis state.


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## Tgace (Jun 7, 2013)

Carol said:


> Ol' Rich was sentenced today.  As it turns out, he's not going to prison.  Judge didn't think it would be appropriate.
> 
> 6 years suspended, plus a year in county, plus a $650 fine.
> 
> With good behaviour, he'll be out in 9 months, then he says he wants to move to a medical cannabis state.



The usual....


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## Makalakumu (Jun 7, 2013)

Tgace said:


> The usual....



The usual interference in the Free Market. No wonder the economy is suffering...


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## ballen0351 (Jun 7, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> The usual interference in the Free Market. No wonder the economy is suffering...



Yes how dare we stop someone from selling LSD


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## Makalakumu (Jun 7, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Yes how dare we stop someone from selling LSD



Believe it or not, there probably is a viable business plan for that chemical.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 7, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Believe it or not, there probably is a viable business plan for that chemical.



Yeah let's pass it out a recess to teach kids about pretty colors


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## Makalakumu (Jun 7, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Yeah let's pass it out a recess to teach kids about pretty colors



Because that's what is sure to happen, right?

Seriously, some drugs probably have no future if they are legalized. LSD does have a future. In a controlled environment, people would pay to trip safely. Artists, musicians, lots of creative people would be dropping acid in order to gain new perspectives on life.


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## Carol (Jun 7, 2013)

I am not sure if he actually was convicted for the LSD, that wasn't LSD.  As the trial concluded, someone tweeted that he was convicted on all charges.   Some friends of mine put together a big gathering for lunch a short time after the trial an at the lunch were a couple of folks who attended the trial in person. They said that charges he was convicted on were all for pot.  The "acid" chemical really was what Rich said it was -- a designer analogue that was not illegal at the time of his arrest (but was banned shortly after his arrest).  

The focus of the trial was on marijuana...and quite a bit of it.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 7, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Because that's what is sure to happen, right?
> 
> Seriously, some drugs probably have no future if they are legalized. LSD does have a future. In a controlled environment, people would pay to trip safely. Artists, musicians, lots of creative people would be dropping acid in order to gain new perspectives on life.


Wow never had anyone try and tell me how LSD should be legal.  You ever deal with a drug addict or have any in your family?  ALOT of moms out there will strongly disagree with your ideas


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## granfire (Jun 7, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Wow never had anyone try and tell me how LSD should be legal.  You ever deal with a drug addict or have any in your family?  ALOT of moms out there will strongly disagree with your ideas



Back in the day before it was Illegal, my mom was given some by a doctor who thought that his nursing students should know what a psychotic episode was like. 
I - personally - like the option to get off the roller coaster after a short time....or sooner....
There is a reason it was made illegal! And frankly, The Greatful Dead were not that great without acid!


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## Makalakumu (Jun 7, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Wow never had anyone try and tell me how LSD should be legal.  You ever deal with a drug addict or have any in your family?  ALOT of moms out there will strongly disagree with your ideas



Psychadelic drugs were revered by ancient cultures. They played pivotal roles in ritual and allowed people to commune with their gods. A lot of mothers took drugs with their children in the past, fathers too.

There are even entire sects of Christianity in South America that take psychadelic drugs. And the drugs they take are more potent than LSD. Should their religions be made illegal?


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## granfire (Jun 7, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Psychadelic drugs were revered by ancient cultures. They played pivotal roles in ritual and allowed people to commune with their gods. A lot of mothers took drugs with their children in the past, fathers too.
> 
> There are even entire sects of Christianity in South America that take psychadelic drugs. And the drugs they take are more potent than LSD. Should their religions be made illegal?



well, the Native Americans did not smoke just for the heck of it either...
And if Elder is correct, them places where those things are religiously employed, they are exempt from the local drug test....

we are talking about taking sh&t for the sake if taking it, not some religious experience!


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## Makalakumu (Jun 7, 2013)

granfire said:


> well, the Native Americans did not smoke just for the heck of it either...
> And if Elder is correct, them places where those things are religiously employed, they are exempt from the local drug test....
> 
> we are talking about taking sh&t for the sake if taking it, not some religious experience!



True, but it's an example of how these things can be used in a controlled environment. If a church can do it, so can other establishments.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 8, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Psychadelic drugs were revered by ancient cultures. They played pivotal roles in ritual and allowed people to commune with their gods. A lot of mothers took drugs with their children in the past, fathers too.
> 
> There are even entire sects of Christianity in South America that take psychadelic drugs. And the drugs they take are more potent than LSD. Should their religions be made illegal?


Lots of things "revered" by ancient society are illegal and just wrong today.  And I don't care what they do in South America I don't live there and have no control over their laws.  I do care about what happens in South County here and I do have control over it.  There are things we as a society today think are wrong and LSD dens downtown are one of them.


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## granfire (Jun 8, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> True, but it's an example of how these things can be used in a controlled environment. If a church can do it, so can other establishments.



as if the controlled environment is the goal...
The stuff was legal. It turned out bad for society, that's why it became illegal. 
Thy know it screwed with the synapses, they are not sure how far the damage with weed goes.


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## Makalakumu (Jun 8, 2013)

granfire said:


> as if the controlled environment is the goal...
> The stuff was legal. It turned out bad for society, that's why it became illegal.
> Thy know it screwed with the synapses, they are not sure how far the damage with weed goes.



It's not that simple.  Lots of drugs were made illegal for political reasons.  LSD was part of a counter culture that was resisting the Vietnam war.  Marijuana was made illegal because hemp could put the paper industry out of business.  Both of these drugs marginally affect your long term health.  There are other, far more dangerous, drugs.


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## Blade96 (Jun 21, 2013)

Carol said:


> http://www.vice.com/read/eighty-one-years-for-weed
> 
> A local activist, Rich Paul, is facing 81 years in the big house for selling weed and LSD to an FBI informant. Rich denies selling LSD (saying whatever it was, was a legal compound), but freely admits to selling the weed.
> 
> ...



I think that is atrocious. 81 years for a little bit of a plant. Thats more time that the Steubenville rapists would get.


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