# moy yat ving tsun



## khand50 (Jan 1, 2010)

hi everyone,
  happy new years!  i have met a fellow in the town i live in who trains in moy yat ving tsun lineage through a school in chicago illinois.  he has been given permission to teach sil lum tao and chum kiu as well as the beginning of chi sao.   we are going to get together next week to trade info.  i have some background in the basic wing chun system,  mostly exposed through the jkd i have learned, along with my own study of the art through books and magazines.  i also trained in a school in the eighties where the instructor was teaching some wing chun.  his chi sao was incorrect but the rest wasnt bad.  we actually learned the sil lum tao and i taught myself the 108 mook jong after i built my own version and illustrated the form by hand,  from the 116 mook jong book with the yip man photos.   it took me over two months to draw each frame and eventually i made a poster out of it.  
   has anyone here ever trained in moy yat ving tsun?  i have the book by wayne belahona,  the wing chun compendium,  along with other wing chun books.  ive always wanted to train with someone who really did wing chun so here i finally have a chance.  looking forward to it.  have a great new years day!


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## Tensei85 (Jan 1, 2010)

Hey Khand,

Actually I'm originally from the Moy Yat lineage, their are a few other's that frequent the forums here from the Moy Yat line as well. You'll enjoy it! Moy Yat had a lot to offer in the realm of knowledge for his Students & continues even to grand & great grand students, I'm sure there are more than just that. 

A few publications you may want to check out for Moy Yat's expression of Wing Chun are:

Ving Tsun Trilogy (Covers SNT, CK, BJ)
Ving Tsun Luk Dim Poon Kwan (Covers Pole)
Ving Tsun Muk Yan Jong (Of course the Wooden dummy)

Those are my favorite publications done by Moy Yat, a great read & nice addition to any collection on Wing Chun. 

Good luck, if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask or start a topic.


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## dnovice (Jan 1, 2010)

Hey Khand50,

I did Moy Yat WC for  a bit. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask. I'll try my best to help out as I'm sure others on this forum will. Here you have a great resource... so use it. 

good luck...:drinky:


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## khand50 (Jan 8, 2010)

my friend and i got together on thursday afternoon.  we talked a bit and stretched out.  he was surprised that i dropped down into almost full chinese splits  (not bad for a 50 year old guy!) then we got to business.  he demonstrated the sil lum tao form.  it was different than the way i learned it in the 80's but still similiar enough.  we walked through the form a couple of times.  then he had me do it on one foot.  i think he called it something like,  golden rooster standing on one leg....that may be something they do at his class in chicago.  i didnt ask.  
after we walked through the form a few times we didnt do much else but talk about martial arts and things.  we are going to be sharing our knowledge of martial arts with each other.   he did invite me to come train on saturday with his other students,  which i accepted and thanked him for.   
ive been searching on line for anyone doing sil lum tao the way he performed it but havent found anything yet.  ive got some similiar examples which will help me.   i may ask him if i can video tape him doing the form so i can use it at home.  sometimes people are funny about those kinds of things.  i believe in research.  lots of it.  i have studied wing chun since 1972 in book and magazine form.  i have read about many styles of wing chun over the years but have only been able to study with on instructor actually teaching it.  i have several books and videos on wing chun which helps me understand the theory of the art.  as well as the history.   
just wanted to update you on what we did.  i will ask questions as soon as i have some.  thanks for the input on moy yat books.  i found a book of moy yat on amazon.  his books seem to be rare.   i found the moy yat website also.  i hope to get up to chicago to train at the school sometime with my friend when he goes.


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## Poor Uke (Jan 9, 2010)

I would be really intrigued to see their version of Sil Lim Tao which continues to be my favourite Chinese form.


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## khand50 (Jan 9, 2010)

the version that this fellow is teaching me is different in one place specifically,  which is toward the end, when doing a tan sao,  then you are supposed to do a gong sao,  then back to tan sao.   this is hard to describe by typing...but he brings up the tan sao...then pulls the palm toward your face....turn your hand so the knife-hand faces out....drop the hand down,  fingers pointing down....then back up to a tan sao.   most people do this gong sao from the tan sao,  down in a semicircular pattern as a lower block,  similiar in structure or movement to a down block in karate,  then back up to a tan sao.  that is how i was taught years ago.  other than that it is pretty much the same.   at the end of the form,  he does the three punches and just stops.  there is not outro to the form,  as when you start,  by crossing your hands low then high.   so that is kind of different for me too.  it almost feels like the form isnt done...we also practice on one leg...which he calls the golden rooster.  that is fun!
   today we worked on the sil lum tao again,  then three level jik tek (straight kick)  which he aimed at shin, knee, groin.  while his other two students practiced chum kiu,  he and i worked on a pak sao drill and a pak da drill.  he showed me how they did the lop sao drill with two changes,  and then showed me his don chi sao.  like i said,  i have had experience with wing chun in the past,  and i have read many books on it as well as watched several videos.  wing chun is the basis for jkd which i have studied many years.  but my application of wing chun right now is sloppy.  and i know it.  that is why i am training with this fellow.  he has a really good outlook on martial arts and spending time with him will bring my wing chun up to speed.   ive never had a good partner for chi sao or any other drills.  i am enjoying this time and wish we were in an actual school so i could go to class more.  we trained at his other students house which is fine.   ill keep everyone informed as i progress.  if i have any questions ill ask you all.  
by the way,  what styles of wing chun,  or lineage,  do you all study?   i have access to read about many forms of wing chun and find them all interesting.   thanks for sharing.


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## Tensei85 (Jan 10, 2010)

Hey Khand,

Personally I trained Moy Yat Wing Chun, Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun & Chi Sim Weng Chun. It's all very interesting to say the least. 

Check out this vid, by Benny Meng it's real similar to the Moy Yat forms he changed it up a bit in places however. 

Siu Nim Tau, Cham Kiu, Biu Ji:




 
As for the "One Legged Rooster Stance" sometimes (One legged Golden Rooster) its a common way to practice SNT, & a useful training device, have had great success with the training personally. 

&#37329;&#38622;&#25801;&#31435; - Gam Gai Duk Lap (One legged Golden Rooster)


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## khand50 (Jan 10, 2010)

thanks tensei,
   i actually have that one.  ive got alot of wing chun videos downloaded from youtube and...other places.   ive got stuff by randy williams,  augustine fong, william cheung, wong shun leung, and so on.   i like to cross reference arts when i train in them.  or even when i dont train in them but just study them.  i have over 200 books right now on various arts.  i believe in studying not just technique,  but history, theory and philosophy as well.  it is one of my pet peeves that people go study with someone and take what they offer as word because when someone offers a different of opposing idea,  they tend to freak out a bit.   this happened to me in tae kwon do years ago.  i had the first english edition of the tae kwon do book written by choi hong hi.  it included the heian forms he learned during his study of karate,  which he changed and implemented into his formation of tae kwon do.  i challenged a friend on the idea that tae kwon do was a "pure" korean art by presenting this information to him.  he was reading a newer version of the itf tkd book which excluded this earlier information.  
i know that there are many versions of wing chun as well as many schools of wing chun.  not all of them hold to the straight line theory either, as some include circular striking and kicking.  the most popular has been yip man's wing chun due to bruce lee.   so that is why i study whatever i can find.   the wing chun compendium is a good book,  by wayne belanoha,  and it is in the moy yat lineage.   he has a second edition out as well now,  which i intend to purchase.  
my friend told me he will be able to accelerate my training due to my background knowledge of wing chun so that helps him as well.  i trained in wing chun years ago and have followed many of its principles through jkd training.  there are similar qualities found in the filipino arts as well, which i have done for years.   im just a little structurally sloppy for wing chun,  i found out yesterday...lol.   but training with this fellow will help correct that.  have a great day and thanks for the continued input.


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## Tensei85 (Jan 10, 2010)

khand50 said:


> i know that there are many versions of wing chun as well as many schools of wing chun. not all of them hold to the straight line theory either, as some include circular striking and kicking.


 
I think its important to note that straight line (Jik Sin) is a concept, there is as far as my experience; Circle's (Wahn), Straight Line's in all systems of Wing Chun and in other CMA systems to one degree or another. 

As far as Wing Chun Kicks, Bong Gerk is similar to a round kick, & of course Wahng Gerk (Side Kick) (like Ce Tui) though not rounded but used at a side angle still incoporating Jik Sin however.


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## rogerclf1 (Jan 10, 2010)

Moy yat sounds like a really good Yip man lineage style of ving tsun.  I have never trained it, but have done a little Wong Shun Leung lineage.


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## khand50 (Jan 10, 2010)

thanks for the info.  i think all the systems of wing chun are worth investigating.  i like being well rounded when i study an art.  that is why i usually get every book available when i can afford it.   i like to study history and philosophy as well as theory when it comes to martial arts,  (as well as technique).   its always been a pet peeve of mine when someone just trains in an art without investigating its background and history.  you can usually find some pretty cool things when you study.


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## Poor Uke (Jan 11, 2010)

Ip Man > Ip Chun

Sometimes a little softer than I'm happy with but I know thats my problem not the system's


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## hunt1 (Jan 11, 2010)

Problem isn,t you nor is it the system. It is however the way the system has been understood and passed down. Kuen Kuit hard and soft each have their place. It's the way to combine the two that is lacking in Ip Chun's usual teaching.


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## Poor Uke (Jan 11, 2010)

Yep although I know quite a few people who train in HK and they have marvelous control over their musculature from hard to soft.


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## khand50 (Jan 18, 2010)

we have started to train chi gong now too.  we did six postures for five minutes each.  my legs were killing me the next day.   i showed my daughter what we did and now she wants to train chi gong.  or chi kung, or however you wish to spell it.  ive seen so many translations.   i am still working on my sil lum tao form.   and i just ordered the book,  mastering wing chun,  by samuel kwok.  am waiting to get the second book by wayne belanoha,  wing chun compendium 2.   outside of that i would like to purchase some butterfly swords to practice with.  my friend doesnt teach any weapons from wing chun so ill have to settle now for working from videos on those,  just to get a start,  until i can find someone who does teach them.


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