# How soft is your WC?



## Marnetmar (Jan 30, 2015)

Do you take a very soft and yielding approach, or a very hard approach?


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## Kwan Sau (Jan 30, 2015)

Marnetmar said:


> Do you take a very soft and yielding approach, or a very hard approach?



Most times, I guess the harder approach. However, I'd like to point out that "soft" and "hard" are very subjective.


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## Marnetmar (Jan 30, 2015)

I suppose what I mean by hard and soft are how relaxed you are in your methods, and how much strength you are using.


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## Kwan Sau (Jan 30, 2015)

Marnetmar said:


> I suppose what I mean by hard and soft are how relaxed you are in your methods, and how much strength you are using.



I hear ya...but its funny because I just concluded teaching a class and was speaking to the students about this very topic. (weird). 
I told them that one person's "hardness/strength" is another persons "softness/relaxation".  haha. 
Holy yin and yang Batman! 
As for my WC...I strive for my methods to be evenly balanced but I'd say that I definitely lean more towards the yang side of the equation.


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## zuti car (Jan 30, 2015)

Depends of the situation but usually soft and relaxed


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## Danny T (Jan 30, 2015)

Marnetmar said:


> Do you take a very soft and yielding approach, or a very hard approach?


Yes!
Every situation is different but overall we intercept, bridge and control softly, strike heavy and hard.


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## Mephisto (Jan 30, 2015)

The idea of soft and hard is a decent explanation and a good tool for teaching but sometimes I think it's an oversimplicifation. Most arts use elements from both. It's just about relaxing and tensing at the right time. Yielding to force and using technique to overcome power is a universal concept to fighting. Relaxation and timing are the same thing IMO. Arts might not mention hard or soft approach but they will utilize these philosophies.


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## Pat M (Jan 31, 2015)

Nice topic, I come from a very unyielding club whose approach was to be very relaxed using as little strength and as much structure as possible. Connection to the earth through your stance being imperitive. It seemed to work as i had trained with different partners for hours without break. However on changing schools was told straight away i would get tired far to quick using that much energy. I thought i was using as soft as an approach as i could?

Now i am appreciating different approaches to several positions opening up so many options. With a softer approach.


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## Danny T (Jan 31, 2015)

Guys, I believe all the approaches are covered in the 3 empty hand forms.
It is all in how one practices and ones personality and preferences. A good instructor is should going to give you the information and have you practice based upon his knowledge. A great instructor is going to give you the same information and observe you as an individual. The majority of your practice and subsequent training will be based upon your personality and what you naturally gravitate to with the other part of your practice and training being an exposure of other approaches. Through good practices one will find what works best for them. In time, ones approach may change simply because of age, injuries, or other varied reasons. It is all good. If you stay true to yourself and your abilities you will grow into many changes throughout your journey in the martial arts just as we all do in life.


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## Treznor (Feb 2, 2015)

Personally I try to be as light and relaxed as possible... but keep getting told to relax so I guess some improvement's required in that respect.


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## Eric_H (Feb 2, 2015)

As far as I know Wing Chun, the focus on energy is not about being hard or soft, but instead "smart." Using only the force required (which can sometimes be a lot, sometime almost none) driven through the force multipliers of proper structure and leverage.


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## mograph (Feb 2, 2015)

Pat M said:


> Nice topic, I come from a very unyielding club whose approach was to be very relaxed using as little strength and as much structure as possible. Connection to the earth through your stance being imperative. It seemed to work as i had trained with different partners for hours without break. However on changing schools was told straight away i would get tired far to quick using that much energy. I thought i was using as soft as an approach as i could?



Your situation may highlight one of the challenges when dealing with this topic: the conflicting vocabulary:

relaxed
strength
energy
soft
For me, these words work:

connected
distributed
structure
Submitted for your approval.


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## geezer (Feb 3, 2015)

mograph said:


> Your situation may highlight one of the challenges when dealing with this topic: the conflicting vocabulary:
> 
> relaxed
> strength
> ...


 
Here are a couple more adjectives that I find useful: _flexible vs. rigid_.

We stress being flexible and "springy" throughout our whole body. You can be flexible and yield seeming to be "soft" and yet spring back to hit very hard. To make it work you have to have that other stuff you mentioned above right too!


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## Danny T (Feb 3, 2015)

Taut vs rigid, stiff, or unyielding.


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## geezer (Feb 3, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Taut vs rigid, stiff, or unyielding.


 
Hmmm. Let's see ..._taught_ makes me think of a bowstring. That's springy too. Absorbs energy and returns it. Like an arrow for example. Yep, that works for me.


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## mograph (Feb 3, 2015)

Yeah ... I like being against "unyielding," because to me, that word implies an inflexibility (hey!) or lack of awareness of the dynamics of the situation. Sometimes we resist, but sometimes we yield to gain an advantage. 

"Taut." Hmm. Maybe as a bass string? To each his own pitch?


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## Pat M (Feb 7, 2015)

The word unyielding perhaps was not a good descriptor. The sifu's end game was to have students able to absorb a lot of energy from an attacker or chi sau partner, and if there was a break in that energy to be able to explode forward. I did not completely agree with this approach although it did as said work in hong kong and china so may have a level of credence.

Personally I believe a soft approach is best, although still with substance being able to contain. Say like a wet towel wrapping around post or being used like a whip.

I definitely don't agree with a hard two bulls butting heads as per the old club. That sifu did have a few loose screws though and we are no longer there.

You need to be able to present all way as no one approach will suite all circumstances


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## Danny T (Feb 7, 2015)

In training for understanding how powerful and supportive structure is and to learn to feel how to use structure to drive energy into the ground we also drilled being unyielding though relaxed. Once understood and having the ability to hold pressure we begin to learn to yield and to redirect. We do not just hold the pressure. It is during the redirection of pressure we attack.
There are several drills used in training to develop attributes that are not utilized in application in the manner the drill developed them. Some practitioners never get past the drill stage and attempt to use what was developed in the same manner as the drill.


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## Jake104 (Mar 4, 2015)

Eric_H said:


> As far as I know Wing Chun, the focus on energy is not about being hard or soft, but instead "smart." Using only the force required (which can sometimes be a lot, sometime almost none) driven through the force multipliers of proper structure and leverage.


I think ENERGY is the key here. Being able to identify track and deliver properly, is probably the hardest thing to learn or teach for that matter. I believe the forms when preformed correctly teach this, by slowing down the mind and keeping you in the now/present. This has been my experience anyway. Being able to use "smart " energy has been and will continue to be the hardest but yet most important part of Wing Chun or Martial arts for me. It is why I love the MArtial arts and train everyday.

I think structure and energy are one in the same. Stationary structure isn't to hard to learn but, structur/ energy in motion and under pressure is a whole different story. A lot of WC people talk about it but, I think few really can pull it off real time under pressure or truly understand it. Proper energy is proper energy, hard or soft. If you say I do "hard" or "soft" style. I think you are cheating yourself out of the other half of the puzzle. Someone who really knows energy will exploit this.


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## Jake104 (Mar 4, 2015)

Danny T said:


> In training for understanding how powerful and supportive structure is and to learn to feel how to use structure to drive energy into the ground we also drilled being unyielding though relaxed. Once understood and having the ability to hold pressure we begin to learn to yield and to redirect. We do not just hold the pressure. It is during the redirection of pressure we attack.
> There are several drills used in training to develop attributes that are not utilized in application in the manner the drill developed them. Some practitioners never get past the drill stage and attempt to use what was developed in the same manner as the drill.


That's the problem. There are drills that help teach but, the transition from drills to real time with pressure is where most practitioners loose it. For me the transition has been very mental or internal I guess you could say. It's something that is even hard to explain or put in words. I primarily focus my training on it and almost make everything else secondary. That's how important energy is to my WC. It took someone who really knew energy and was able to apply it on me, for me to even know it existed. Of coarse I knew about forward relaxed and ground energy prior to this. Or at least I thought I did. It's just way more complex then just that.


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## Jake104 (Mar 4, 2015)

Third post in! I guess you could say I'm passionate about this subject? Lol!

I have found that proper energy also affects timing and power. So you could say structure, energy, power and timing are all the same thing? Energy! I have found that when my Energy is right my timing is ahead of my opponents. Which makes me seem faster, stronger and more rooted then I really am. When my energy is wrong. I'm behind the count and find myself playing catch up and having to rely on strength and speed. Which usually equates to me getting tossed around and my **** handed to me. When my energy is right I have control of my COG and yours among other things. When it's wrong well, you get it.


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## r'n'r (Mar 7, 2015)

I will appear hard to the viewer and certainly to the recipient, but I'm actually quite loose. Just letting the limb fly when striking is an accurate analogy.


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## geezer (Mar 7, 2015)

r'n'r said:


> I will appear hard to the viewer and certainly to the recipient, but I'm actually quite loose. Just letting the limb fly when striking is an accurate analogy.



What you are describing sounds "soft". Soft as in _relaxed _can strike very hard!

BTW r'n'r I see that you are coming up on two years as a member of this forum, yet you've _only posted seven times?_ *What's with that!!!

... *ok, I'm calm and in control again. Carry on.


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## r'n'r (Mar 7, 2015)

geezer said:


> What you are describing sounds "soft". Soft as in _relaxed _can strike very hard!
> 
> BTW r'n'r I see that you are coming up on two years as a member of this forum, yet you've _only posted seven times?_ *What's with that!!!
> 
> ... *ok, I'm calm and in control again. Carry on.



Exactly. I might actively strike at limbs, block incoming strikes, etc. but I'm hardy ever 'hard'. Hm, that sounded way better in my mind...

As for not posting a lot...been training . Jk. I'm active in some other forums and I haven't been actively training WC for more than two years now.


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