# Anyone here do Sun style?



## Kensai (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm looking at starting this soon, and have been reading up on it. It seems to be quite a fast style of tai chi (from what I've read - having no experience at all, this is all I have to go on) with relatively high stances, nimble footwork etc. 

I'm curious as to how many others may do this style/variant of tai chi, and the major differences between other styles. I've asked a less in depth version of this question on a similar(ish) thread, but wanted some more input. Kudos to XS for providing some help in my original post.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 25, 2006)

I think a month after your first post we can assume the answer is a resounding no.

I think I may have asked this same question before with the same resault

I am looking forward to hearing about how the Sun class you are going to go to goes.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 25, 2006)

Sorry, I neglected to get involved here.  I do a little Sun style.  I do a long form, some 70 or 80 moves or so I think, depending on how you count them.  I do like it, but I focus more on my Chen style.  All my Tai Chi takes a bit of a back seat to my external training while I am still a strapping young man of 35.  When I get older I imagine my Tai Chi training will gradually move into a position of greater focus.

Sun is very different from Chen and Yang.  The stances do tend to be higher, altho I've seen pics in Tai Chi magazines and stuff of some people taking the stances quite low.  The stances in Sun are different.  There is more from Xing-I and Bagua in it.  Of course Sun Lu Tang was an accomplished Xing-I and Bagua guy, and I believe a good friend of Yang Cheng Fu.  These things all influenced his Tai Chi.  

Our Sun Style is actually from Fu style.  I don't remember Fu's full name, sorry.  Fu was a friend of Sun, and developed his own system that includes both internal and external elements, including Sun Style.  Fu is probably most well known for Fu Style Bagua, spinning on the heel and whatnot.  My teacher knows Madame Sun, and I believe how we do things is a bit different from the direct Sun lineage.

Anyway, anecdotal story here.  I had been working on Chen for a while, and the tendon below my right kneecap had become very tender.  This had happened once before, and returned.  It didn't seem to want to go away, and stayed sore for like a year or so.  It really interferred with my training during that time.  Anyway, I began to learn the Sun form, and within a couple months or so the pain left my kneecap, and never returned.  This was about 5 or 6 years ago.  I don't really know what caused it to get better.  Maybe the higher stances in Sun, maybe something inherently "healing" about Sun, maybe just shifting my focus somewhat away from Chen for a while which is known for causing knee problems if done wrong, or overdone, I don't know what actually did it.  But I like to attribute it to Sun.

I can't claim to be very good at Sun, and I don't practice it as much as the Chen and my external stuff.  But I do it and keep it in my back pocket for a rainy day, so to speak.

I don't really believe I am very good at any of my tai chi, to be honest.  I do a few forms, certainly not as much as I should, but enough to be comfortable with them.  I cannot claim to understand Chi flow and stuff.  On occasion I feel something, usually burning heat in the palm of my hand that might be remedial chi flow, but I cannot control it or make it happen at will.  I suppose that sometimes things just accidentally line up and it manages to squeek out.  But I just keep doing them with whatever dedication I am able, and hopefully in another 40 years or so I will know better what is going on, when I am too old to do White Crane anymore...


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 25, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Sorry, I neglected to get involved here. I do a little Sun style. I do a long form, some 70 or 80 moves or so I think, depending on how you count them. I do like it, but I focus more on my Chen style. All my Tai Chi takes a bit of a back seat to my external training while I am still a strapping young man of 35. When I get older I imagine my Tai Chi training will gradually move into a position of greater focus.
> 
> Sun is very different from Chen and Yang. The stances do tend to be higher, altho I've seen pics in Tai Chi magazines and stuff of some people taking the stances quite low. The stances in Sun are different. There is more from Xing-I and Bagua in it. Of course Sun Lu Tang was an accomplished Xing-I and Bagua guy, and I believe a good friend of Yang Cheng Fu. These things all influenced his Tai Chi.
> 
> ...


 
Oh sure back when I ask I get no answer but when Kensai oh sure, Thats it I'm closing Xuefu 

Cool you do Sun, I have wanted to hear form an actual Sun person about Sun style. 

You mentioned Xingyi and Bagua elements. How do they manifest themselves as compared to Yang style or Chen style, which has no such influence?


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## Flying Crane (Aug 25, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Oh sure back when I ask I get no answer but when Kensai oh sure, Thats it I'm closing Xuefu
> 
> Cool you do Sun, I have wanted to hear form an actual Sun person about Sun style.
> 
> You mentioned Xingyi and Bagua elements. How do they manifest themselves as compared to Yang style or Chen style, which has no such influence?


 
Well, since I don't actually train Xing-i and Bagua, I can't give a lot of depth, but some of the stances certainly are similar to the basic stance in Xing-i, and I think this stance is often found in Bagua as well.  that is where I see it most.  I guess now that I think about it, some of the hand techs in the set are very "spirally" and I think that might be a bagua influence.  If these other arts were part of my training I'd give you more info.

By the way, close down Xuefu if you want, but it's too late for you.  I am Number Two, and I know it all and I will carry on with it and do what I will no matter what you say!


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 25, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Well, since I don't actually train Xing-i and Bagua, I can't give a lot of depth, but some of the stances certainly are similar to the basic stance in Xing-i, and I think this stance is often found in Bagua as well. that is where I see it most. I guess now that I think about it, some of the hand techs in the set are very "spirally" and I think that might be a bagua influence. If these other arts were part of my training I'd give you more info.
> 
> By the way, close down Xuefu if you want, but it's too late for you. I am Number Two, and I know it all and I will carry on with it and do what I will no matter what you say!


 
Thanks, I would like to find out more about Sun Style, but I understand without training Xingyi and Bagua it is had to say.

One of these days I got to find me a teacher that knows Sun and check it out. But here on the opposite coast they are hard to find. But I am getting ahead of myself, first back to Chen. 

OK, I will continue on with Xuefu, I still have to obtain my goal of world domination. We have both coasts covered and now that I know you train Sun....we are one step closer (Insert Diabolic laughter here)


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## Kensai (Sep 5, 2006)

Odd, when I tried posting, it failed. 

I was going to say that I start my Sun style training on Sunday, I'm looking forward to it greatly. I've wanted to do some tai chi for some time now. When I spoke to my instructor over the phone the other day, he was quite pleased that I do Wing Chun also. Not sure why....


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 5, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Odd, when I tried posting, it failed.
> 
> I was going to say that I start my Sun style training on Sunday, I'm looking forward to it greatly. I've wanted to do some tai chi for some time now. When I spoke to my instructor over the phone the other day, he was quite pleased that I do Wing Chun also. Not sure why....


 
Parts of chi sau of Wing Chun (the sensitivity) can transfer to push hands of Tai Chi. Also you have done stance training in Wing Chun forms and hopefully he feels that since you have Wing Chun experience that you will want to learn the martial side of Sun style.


Let us know how the class went.


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## Kensai (Sep 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Parts of chi sau of Wing Chun (the sensitivity) can transfer to push hands of Tai Chi. Also you have done stance training in Wing Chun forms and *hopefully he feels that since you have Wing Chun experience that you will want to learn the martial side of Sun style*.
> 
> 
> Let us know how the class went.


 
Yeah, I'd go with that. When I spoke to him and mentioned Wing Chun, he immediately mentioned that Tai Chi had very firmly rooted martial applications. He was v quick to point that out. I had a positive impression of him even on a phone call.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 7, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Yeah, I'd go with that. When I spoke to him and mentioned Wing Chun, he immediately mentioned that Tai Chi had very firmly rooted martial applications. He was v quick to point that out. I had a positive impression of him even on a phone call.


 
This sounds like a good Tai Chi school, so far. I will be interested in hearing what you think after you go.

I wouldn't mind checking it out myself but most unfortunately it is a bit to far for me to commute. I really got to look into the submarine option for my next car.


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## Kensai (Sep 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> This sounds like a good Tai Chi school, so far. I will be interested in hearing what you think after you go.
> 
> I wouldn't mind checking it out myself but most unfortunately it is a bit to far for me to commute. I really got to look into the submarine option for my next car.


 
Yep, sounds like a submarine, or perhaps a plane would be a good investment. 

This is the link http://www.deyin-taiji.com/

The bloke I spoke to was Dary, seemed very friendly, pretty cool.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 7, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Yep, sounds like a submarine, or perhaps a plane would be a good investment.
> 
> This is the link http://www.deyin-taiji.com/
> 
> The bloke I spoke to was Dary, seemed very friendly, pretty cool.


 
Thanks for the link. I see they have some Xingyiquan as well. 

Let me know how it goes.

And the plane option might be better now that you mention it, that way I could fly to Beijing too.


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## Kensai (Sep 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thanks for the link. I see they have some Xingyiquan as well.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.
> 
> And the plane option might be better now that you mention it, that way I could fly to Beijing too.


 
Yep, a sub would also be difficult considering we're 70 miles inland... *rubs chin, looks thoughtful*....

What's Xingyiquan by the way?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 7, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Yep, a sub would also be difficult considering we're 70 miles inland... *rubs chin, looks thoughtful*....
> 
> What's Xingyiquan by the way?


 
I was thinking the sub might work if I get up enough speed. But then I have to consider the return trip and I just can't figure out the logistics of getting the sub 70 miles back to the ocean.

Xingyi - I use to do this and I rather liked it, there is a lot of power in Xingyi. I did 5-element, 5-element cascade and just touched on 12 animals. 

Xingyiquan
http://www.answers.com/topic/xingyiquan


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## Kensai (Sep 8, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> I was thinking the sub might work if I get up enough speed. But then I have to consider the return trip and I just can't figure out the logistics of getting the sub 70 miles back to the ocean.
> 
> Xingyi - I use to do this and I rather liked it, there is a lot of power in Xingyi. I did 5-element, 5-element cascade and just touched on 12 animals.
> 
> ...


 
Nice one, thanks for that mate. Hadn't realised they did that, where did you read that on the site? 

Check that, just seen the link for it.


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## Gaoguy (Sep 9, 2006)

Fu Zhensong


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## Flying Crane (Sep 9, 2006)

Gaoguy said:


> Fu Zhensong


 
Ah yes, that sounds right.


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## Kensai (Sep 9, 2006)

Ummm....???


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 9, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Ummm....???


 
It took me a minute too. But it is because of the following quote from Crane



Flying Crane said:


> Our Sun Style is actually from Fu style. I don't remember Fu's full name, sorry. Fu was a friend of Sun, and developed his own system that includes both internal and external elements, including Sun Style. Fu is probably most well known for Fu Style Bagua, spinning on the heel and whatnot. My teacher knows Madame Sun, and I believe how we do things is a bit different from the direct Sun lineage.


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## Kensai (Sep 10, 2006)

Aaah... I see now. 

I didn't go today. Became a father instead. Tut, bloody kids. 

Oh well, will just have to wait a little longer to start it.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2006)

Kensai said:


> Aaah... I see now.
> 
> I didn't go today. Became a father instead. Tut, bloody kids.
> 
> Oh well, will just have to wait a little longer to start it.


 

What a lame excuse 

But seriously *CONGRATULATIONS* :asian:


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## Kensai (Sep 11, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> What a lame excuse
> 
> But seriously *CONGRATULATIONS* :asian:



I know, what kind of martial artist am I eh? :wink2:

Thanks mate. It's still not sunk in yet.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 11, 2006)

Kensai said:


> I know, what kind of martial artist am I eh? :wink2:
> 
> Thanks mate. It's still not sunk in yet.


 
It will take a bit to sink in, but it is a great feeling.

Again Congratulations


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## Taijiman (Nov 17, 2006)

I guess the thread is kind of old, but you've got another Sun style person here (just the short 73 move form though ).


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## Kensai (Nov 28, 2006)

Taijiman said:


> I guess the thread is kind of old, but you've got another Sun style person here (just the short 73 move form though ).


 
Excellent, I've just gone back to Wing Chun last night, and will be looking to start Sun style over the coming weeks. What's your experience of it?


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## Taijiman (Dec 1, 2006)

I really like it.  The foot/stance work really feels much better on my knees than other styles (I've got a metal screw in my right knee ).  I really prefer the follow step too... closer to real fighting footwork, and the applications are relatively easy to grasp and see.  Here's a nice demo if you haven't seen much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22BwmDM9Xmg&mode=related&search=

That's Sun Peng, Sun Lu Tang's grandson.

Here's the short form that I do:


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## Kensai (Jun 17, 2007)

Finally! After much waiting, I had my first Sun Style Tai Chi class this morning.  Was great!! Nice atmosphere, nice instructor, good mix of people from 17 to 70. It was only a beginners class, but I could sure feel it on the ol' legs. My teacher said, that tai chi done properly, although highly relaxing in itself, your body should still know that it's been trained. Lots of pushing forward with the knees, low(ish) stances and fluid movement made for a great time. By the end of the class, I could remember all of what had been taught. In my opinion, it was taught at just the right pace. My teacher also mentioned that in his opinion, while it was perfectly ok for tai chi to be learned "for health", or for "self defence", it was his view that just learning tai chi will be useful for both. So, as a result, he would demonstrate at full speed, the slower movements, and the contexts with which they could be used in a fight. A really, really nice bloke too. A fiver a class is hardly a drain on the ol' funds either. 
Next week, they're staging a "Tai Chi in the park" event at a local park to me. Last year it had the attention of the local BBC, so should be a good event, and useful for raising the awareness. 

:ultracool


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## qi-tah (Jun 17, 2007)

Kensai said:


> Finally! After much waiting, I had my first Sun Style Tai Chi class this morning. Was great!! Nice atmosphere, nice instructor, good mix of people from 17 to 70. It was only a beginners class, but I could sure feel it on the ol' legs. My teacher said, that tai chi done properly, although highly relaxing in itself, your body should still know that it's been trained. Lots of pushing forward with the knees, low(ish) stances and fluid movement made for a great time. By the end of the class, I could remember all of what had been taught. In my opinion, it was taught at just the right pace. My teacher also mentioned that in his opinion, while it was perfectly ok for tai chi to be learned "for health", or for "self defence", it was his view that just learning tai chi will be useful for both. So, as a result, he would demonstrate at full speed, the slower movements, and the contexts with which they could be used in a fight. A really, really nice bloke too. A fiver a class is hardly a drain on the ol' funds either.
> Next week, they're staging a "Tai Chi in the park" event at a local park to me. Last year it had the attention of the local BBC, so should be a good event, and useful for raising the awareness.
> 
> :ultracool


 
Hey Kensai, congrads on yr first Sun Taiji class! Sounds like a good 'un.
Hope yr little tacker is doing well too btw. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Know it's a little late to put my oar in, but i just finished learning the Sun 73 form late last year. My Ba gua teacher decided that we really needed to learn some Xing yi and Sun style Taiji to get a proper appreciation of ba gua, so we've been diversifying our training somewhat to accomadate that. 
Personally i see more xing yi in the Sun style form than ba gua, what with the following back foot and the direct hand work, although there is a couple of ba gua style steps and waist movements in there too. All the Taiji i'd done before i leant this was Yang and the comp 42, so it was a very different feel. I actually found it quite a difficult counterpoint to the aggressiveness of xing yi... part of me wondered why we were learning this when we could get the dynamics mainly from our xing yi training, but i guess it's to remind us to remain soft, even in a very direct and uncompromising syle...


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## Kensai (Jun 17, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Hey Kensai, congrads on yr first Sun Taiji class! Sounds like a good 'un.
> Hope yr little tacker is doing well too btw.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks mate. Little one's ok. Just found out though that she has a blocked kidney, and may require surgery. She's grand other than that though, very bright and smiley. 

I'm eagerly awaiting my next class now. I find it's really set up me up for the day. Put me in a great mood for the rest of the day. I can't speak from experience about similarities or differences between this and other internal arts, so forgive my ignorance. Am having fun learning though.


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## qi-tah (Jun 18, 2007)

Kensai said:


> Thanks mate. Little one's ok. Just found out though that she has a blocked kidney, and may require surgery. She's grand other than that though, very bright and smiley.
> 
> I'm eagerly awaiting my next class now. I find it's really set up me up for the day. Put me in a great mood for the rest of the day. I can't speak from experience about similarities or differences between this and other internal arts, so forgive my ignorance. Am having fun learning though.


 
Yeah, having fun is the most important thing i reckon! Otherwise why would we do it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Training is the highlight of my day too (when i'm not injured... *sigh*) Certainly there is no need for you to apologise for being a beginner... otherwise i'd spend half my life wandering about apologising to ppl! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Hope yr little one comes through her health concerns with flying colours btw... best wishes to her.


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## Kensai (Jun 18, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> Yeah, having fun is the most important thing i reckon! Otherwise why would we do it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bang on mate, without fun, what's the point in anything. Lol.  I've been going over the basic moves since my first class, and while it's early days, everything flows from one to the next, which is an obvious thing to say, but Wing Chun, my "main art" is fairly straight forward. Although still has it's little gems. 

I'll PM you if that's ok?


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