# No Gi BJJ Please



## KangTsai (Sep 26, 2016)

Just had my first proper BJJ class. ℅40 drill and 60℅ rolling. Of course I got absolutely squashed against the >purple belts and other more experienced people. I can't ask for any technique advice since there were too many things that were used against me. Completely exhausted; not in the "I just did a 8k run" way, but the "I've been stuck under rubble for 40 minutes" way. Can barely move fingers, must sleep
Kthanksbye


----------



## Tez3 (Sep 26, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Just had my first proper BJJ class. ℅40 drill and 60℅ rolling. Of course I got absolutely squashed against the >purple belts and other more experienced people. I can't ask for any technique advice since there were too many things that were used against me. Completely exhausted; not in the "I just did a 8k run" way, but the "I've been stuck under rubble for 40 minutes" way. Can barely move fingers, must sleep
> Kthanksbye




Sounds perfect! At first you spend all your time defending against things you couldn't imagine people could do then you start cottoning on to what's happening and instead of just defending you are initiating moves, then you are anticipating what they will do and you have another move ready for it then....... you are laughing because not only is it fun, it's amazingly good fun, you have a tremendous sense of achievement and a hunger to learn more and more. As with standup sparring/rolling with more experienced people is much better, not only do you learn quicker they have control and you don't get hurt in the way beginners can hurt you.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 26, 2016)

If you can train no-gi, you should not have to train gi.

IMO, "sport" is only the training path. It should not be your goal. The more gi training time that you have spent, the more time that you will need to spend when you try to move into no-gi environment and remove your gi habit.

I wrestled with a wrestler last week. In those matches, all my sleeve hold, lapel hold skill became useless. At that particular moment, I truly felt that my past gi training experience was a big waste.


----------



## KangTsai (Sep 26, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you can train no-gi, you should not have to train gi.
> 
> IMO, "sport" is only the training path. It should not be your goal. The more gi training time that you have spent, the more time that you will need to spend when you try to move into no-gi environment and remove your gi habit.
> 
> I wrestled with a wrestler last week. In those matches, all my sleeve hold, lapel hold skill became useless. At that particular moment, I truly felt that my past gi training experience was a big waste.


Never really considered training gi. I think it has its advantages for street fights, humans wearing clothes and all.


----------



## KangTsai (Sep 26, 2016)

I 


Tez3 said:


> Sounds perfect! At first you spend all your time defending against things you couldn't imagine people could do then you start cottoning on to what's happening and instead of just defending you are initiating moves, then you are anticipating what they will do and you have another move ready for it then....... you are laughing because not only is it fun, it's amazingly good fun, you have a tremendous sense of achievement and a hunger to learn more and more. As with standup sparring/rolling with more experienced people is much better, not only do you learn quicker they have control and you don't get hurt in the way beginners can hurt you.


l almost sunk a guillotine and a rear naked choke. When I gained perfect position for an arm bar on one partner, it wouldn't work even if my life depended on it because of the amount of sweat on him.


----------



## kuniggety (Sep 27, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you can train no-gi, you should not have to train gi.
> 
> IMO, "sport" is only the training path. It should not be your goal. The more gi training time that you have spent, the more time that you will need to spend when you try to move into no-gi environment and remove your gi habit.
> 
> I wrestled with a wrestler last week. In those matches, all my sleeve hold, lapel hold skill became useless. At that particular moment, I truly felt that my past gi training experience was a big waste.



I wholeheartedly disagree. Many of the best nogi grapplers also train gi. Throw a gi onto a nogi guy and he will get creamed. 

There are no bad gi habits.... There's just knowing how to use the extra tools at your disposal (grips) to slow things down and get the job done. If you don't know how to grapple without the grips then that is showing you where your game is lacking.

Personally, I happen to be in the military. So, folks are essentially walking around with gis on with grips for me to use. Not everyone walks around in speedos... So knowing how to grip clothing is a good thing.


----------



## kuniggety (Sep 27, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> I
> 
> l almost sunk a guillotine and a rear naked choke. When I gained perfect position for an arm bar on one partner, it wouldn't work even if my life depended on it because of the amount of sweat on him.



That's one of the biggest challenges of nogi.. Things get slippery! You have to start relying on more wrestling type holds. With the arm bar, you want to make sure you're reaching around the tricep for a good hold and then it doesn't matter if it's gi or no gi. For me, I can find my foot slipping when trying to kick my hips out for the bite. You have to bring your ankle in as close as possible to get a good grip on their hip.


----------



## Minorincon32 (Sep 28, 2016)

Personally, I found training no gi when you start to be the best way to go for a couple reasons. First of all, like some have said, not depending on any clothes grips is a big must. My first time rolling was against big guys covered in sweat. I learned fast that getting good grips was the only way to survive so figuring out how to get around the sweaty arms and necks was a must. So, after 6 months of no gi, when I finally decided to go gi, my first instinct was to grabs the wrist, but if the grip wasn't there, I'd go for the sleeve. So training No gi at first is my preference solely because once you train no gi, you'll have multiple options for attack. But yes gi techniques like pant control and collar control do translate to clothes very well in most cases so please, train in everything.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 28, 2016)

Minorincon32 said:


> once you train no gi, you'll have multiple options for attack.


There are different set of "contact points" used in no-gi and gi. Since in no-gi, you can't

- pull, or
- stiff arms,

IMO, no gi skill is a subset of gi skill.

When a wrestler shoots in at your leading leg, his body is very low. In order to prevent him from getting your leg (or waist), you have to use your hands to deflect his arms as if to use your arms to deflect incoming punches. Since there is no-gi, you can't get a lapel hold, and use your "stiff arms" to stop your opponent's forward momentum. Your hands will be required to

- grab on his wrist,
- push on top of his elbow joint,
- push on his shoulder.

You will use a complete different set of "contact points" to stop your opponent's forward attack.

The nice thing is, if your hands are used to deal with a sweaty no-gi wrestler, your hands will be easily to deal with a gi opponent. The other way around may not be true.

no-gi -> gi is easy.
gi -> no-gi is hard.


----------



## KangTsai (Sep 29, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The nice thing is, if your hands are used to deal with a sweaty no-gi wrestler, your hands will be easily to deal with a gi opponent. The other way around may not be true.
> 
> no-gi -> gi is easy.
> gi -> no-gi is hard.



Oh you don't "get used to" sweaty opponents with certain grips: you just don't do them. What's more is that my sweat only comes out of my forehead, nose, neck and back, not the arms; big disadvantage in winning a position grip war against someone almost always stronger than me. Without my own control, I can't progress and this leads to me relying on mostly push escapes.


----------

