# MT Pub Guide for the World



## Makalakumu (Jul 12, 2008)

Place your reports on what, where, and why certain pubs, taverns or bars, are the best in the world!


----------



## exile (Jul 12, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> Place your reports on what, where, and why certain pubs, taverns or bars, are the best in the world!



I like it! Will be checking in with my favs shortly.


----------



## Makalakumu (Jul 12, 2008)

Okay, so here is one of my favorites.

The Anchor Bar in Superior Wisconsin.  This little place is down by the industrial docks and is frequented by all sorts of types from crusty sailors to lawyers.  The decor is basically run down antiques that all sorts of old timers remember using from their time plying the great lakes waters.  The beer is great, with over 100 different microbrews from around the region in the cooler and the place literally has the best hamburgers I have ever tasted anywhere in the entire world.  That is no boast.

Best of all, its cheap.  A burger, fries, and a pint can be had for about 6 dollars.

It's a good place to grab lunch and slum with the locals if you are ever in the area.


----------



## exile (Jul 12, 2008)

Barley's Brewpubs in Columbus make real ale to a standard which surpasses almost everything I've had in the best British real ale pubs. Their owner and master brewer, Scott Francis, served a three year apprenticeship with one of the larger British regionals, then came back to Columbus withas he told me at the timethe covert agenda of educating local tastes to increasingly bitter beers, and he has succeeded brilliantly. MBuzzy and I, along with a friend from town, got together last night for Barley's Smokehouse's 10th anniversary celebration, the Hop-IPA-looza, featuring nothing but IPAstheir own and some guest beerson tap, on the cask (handpump) and in the firkin (a single, 10-gallon barrel, gravity dispense). The real alesthe cask and firkin beerswere good beyond descripion, I'd say. That's Barley's great strength. The food is very goodnot haut cuisine, but definitely a couple of steps above standard barfoodbut that's not why people descend on the place on Firkin Friday every week, or why the cask beers are often sold out after a week. The level of beermaking is really outstandingI've had real ale not just in the UK but in Seattle and San Francisco, where it is a Very Big Thing Indeed, and I gotta say, Barley's wins hands down. Scott F. is an artist of the hop, he's spent decades learning how to balance and harmonize several different hop varieties in each bear, and it pays off big...

... and no, I have no financial interest or stake in Barley's (other than a one-way flow of cash to them in exchange for a flow of beer back to _me_ )


----------



## terryl965 (Jul 12, 2008)

The Tarven in Southern California back in the eighties they had every type of beer and brew some of the greatest ale.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jul 12, 2008)

Just as a quick aside, I'm really pleased to see the genuine love of 'proper' beer being shown here.

Given that all I've ever drank of American extraction is Budweiser (which should go back in it's host horse unless you're simply thirsty) I'm very happy that there's more to beer in America than I thought :rei:.


----------



## Nolerama (Jul 12, 2008)

JackSons' Restaurant, St. Louis, MO--- My version of "Cheers." I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but it's where I hang out with close friends and enjoy a tasty beverage. The food is good, too.

The Tin Can, St. Louis, MO--- Two locations offer a plethora of beer in, you guessed it, cans! They'll keep a beer cozy for you (after you draw all over it with permanent marker) for the next time you visit. Their softball team wins by luck, though.

The Thirsty Scholar, NYC, NY--- Random pick when visiting, and a great place to end up after getting suckered to pay $15 for watered-down mixed drinks in Times Square.

Cafe Havana, Makati City, Manila, Philippines--- Kinda touristy, but lots of locals hang out there anyway. An entire nights tab between my brother and myself was a grand total of $35 US. Great salsa dancing and a good DJ afterwards.


----------



## exile (Jul 12, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Just as a quick aside, I'm really pleased to see the genuine love of 'proper' beer being shown here.



This is a kind of new thing for us&#8212;Americans, up until about a generation ago never had a very clear idea about wine or what to do with it, and found it rather intimidating&#8212;but _beer_, everyone knew about: it was basically chilled alcoholic water that someone had dunked a bag of barley quickly in and out of and maybe shown a couple of pictures of a hop plant to. At a typical 5% alcohol, no bady, essentially zero taste, the American devo version of its distant Czech pilsen ancestor was guaranteed to be an easy cheap drunk, which was how a lot of us in my era grew up thinking about beer. That started to changed when a few British beer imports began to convince people there might be more going on, and increasing postwar prosperity gave many more people the chance to visit Britain and Europe, where they were... astonished is probably the right word... at what beer over there was.  The villain of the piece was Prohibition, which had a disastrous effect on small regional or local breweries in the US&#8212;at the turn of the last century, there were several thousand such in the country; by 1960, there werer something like 100 of these left, and all but the big giants were definitely on the ropes. 

And then along came CAMRA...



Sukerkin said:


> Given that all I've ever drank of American extraction is Budweiser (which should go back in it's host horse unless you're simply thirsty) I'm very happy that there's more to beer in America than I thought :rei:.



The British real ale movement didn't just rescue English beer; you could make the argument that it saved the American brewing industry as well&#8212;the careful, craftsmanlike part of it, at least,  that put its money into quality ingredients and careful methods, rather than advertising and cheap additives. The resurgence of interest in the UK in traditional ales lead to a kind of resonance in this country in which people started getting curious about what the ale style really was&#8212;a lot of people had no clue that there was such a thing as top-fermented beer, let alone how different in character it is from lager-style beer. And a whole gang of new enterprises, spearheaded by Anchor in San Francisco (their Liberty Ale is one of Michael Jackson's four-star 'best of kind') and several Washington state outfits (Bert Grant's, Red Hook and a few others) started brewing prototype 'best bitter' style ales with major hop impact. Things took off from there, and what happened in the wine industry (where now Washington state cabernets like Quilceda Creek regularly trounce Premier Cru clarets&#8212;La Tour, Chateau Margeaux and the rest&#8212;in blind-refereed competitions held in _France_) has happened in the beer industry: Michael Jackson considers the Stone Brewing Company's Ruination Ale the equal of, or superior to, any British real ale in existence. The so-called San Diego style of 'Double IPA'&#8212;massive hops, with smooth malt balance and complex flavors, but weighing in at up to 8% strength&#8212;strength you don't even notice (till you try to stand up! ) because the beer has so much depth of flavor&#8212;is a distinctly American development built on the platform of the classical Burton/IPA style. There are now literally hundreds of new breweries in this country, producing a great variety of new and exciting beers, some in these very traditional patterns, some wildly experimental, and IMO we owe it all, or most of it, to the fact that the long arm of the Campaign for Real Ale reached up from the grass roots in late 1960s Britain and saved English beer.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jul 12, 2008)

{smacks forhead}  Of course!  Prohibition.  How could I have forgotten about that?  No wonder the American brewing industry took a dive.

Thanks for reminding me of that, Bob.  Thanks also for the thumbnail of what is developing and growing in the industry over the Pond 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  

I'm so glad that CAMRA survived its period of being mildly lampooned as a bunch of 'beardies' in fishermans jumpers listening to folk music and achieved something good for everyone in a decent pub.


----------



## Kacey (Jul 12, 2008)

Boulder, which is quite close to Denver, is the home of the mountain bike and the micro-brewery - the two together being why one of my favorite micro-brews (although it's a bit too widespread now to be a micro any more) is Fat Tire.  I don't frequent bars enough to find a good one, although I did quite enjoy the ones I found when I toured England - but there are quite a few decent beers around the Denver area that aren't available elsewhere - and given the proximity of both Boulder and Golden (home of Coors - which also makes quite a few of the no-longer-micros and European imports) they are all _fresh_ - which makes them taste so much better!


----------



## exile (Jul 12, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> {smacks forhead}  Of course!  Prohibition.  How could I have forgotten about that?  No wonder the American brewing industry took a dive.



It just killed the American beer industry, and did something similar to the developing California wine business. The giants had the resources to weather the storm, but a lot of their smaller competitors went down and never got up.



Sukerkin said:


> I'm so glad that CAMRA survived its period of being mildly lampooned as a bunch of 'beardies' in fishermans jumpers listening to folk music and achieved something good for everyone in a decent pub.



It's true, they had their rough spots and bumps early on (the funny thing is, a lot of the early CAMRA stalwarts were solidly established professionals&#8212;journalists, lawyers, academics and the like&#8212;anything _but_ what we used to call 'country hippies')... but my feeling is, they were bound to succeed, because at some level the British public _wanted_ quality beer, and valued the priceless virtues that the traditional cozy English pub embodies. Sometimes, real progress means moving _backward_, and this was one of those times. 

Re *Kacey's* mention of Colorodo micros: Breckenridge and the Boulder Beer Company are just two of the very fine ale producers in that state. We're lucky in Columbus: there are a couple of places that regularly bring in beers from the Colorado micros. I used to ski in Colorodo&#8212;this was well before the microbrewery boom there got started; but the bars, as they were called, in the mountain areas really were very pub-like: they had that rustic rough-hewn charm, wonderful huge fireplaces, and terrific food.


----------



## theletch1 (Jul 12, 2008)

I brew my own so my favorite pub would be my living room.  I guarantee I get better service than anyone else.   My favorite "store bought" is Guinness so of course my favorite home brew is stout.  I've brewed an oktoberfest and an English brown ale here as well.  For taste, freshness and just the all around "neat" factor homebrew is the way to go.


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 12, 2008)

There was a time when there were lots of local brews... and that time may return.

I'm reasonably partial to Yuengling , and Dominion Ale (used to be an independent brewery, but it was recently bought out -- though they've reportedly stayed true to their roots so far) has a good rep.  Old Dominion Brewery still has a small restuarant/bar which is conveniently right off of the W&OD Trail (an old rail bed converted to a multi-use path).


----------



## exile (Jul 12, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> I brew my own so my favorite pub would be my living room.  I guarantee I get better service than anyone else.   My favorite "store bought" is Guinness so of course my favorite home brew is stout.  I've brewed an oktoberfest and an English brown ale here as well.  For taste, freshness and just the all around "neat" factor homebrew is the way to go.



Home brewing is terrific if you're someone who can work carefully on a complex task. I'm not, but one of my colleagues is an accomplished home brewer: you can lay his stuff down for two or three years and it's just brilliant when you open it up... he's a real technician: cracks his own barley malt to prepare the wort and does experiments with different yeast and hop combinations, keeping notes on the whole thing. I wish I had the patience to do that... mine doesn't extend much past the wait to get my hands on the opener... :drinkbeer



jks9199 said:


> There was a time when there were lots of local brews... and that time may return.



I think we're seeing the beginning of it. In all kinds of areas, local production is becoming the hot thing, and it's leading to a huge diversity in areas that were once dominated by a few large mass-producers. A very exciting, hopeful time, I believe...


----------



## Makalakumu (Jul 12, 2008)

Does anyone have any experience with Dogfishhead brewpub in Deleware?  I've heard that their beer is absolutely to die for.  Some friends have said its the best beer in the whole US.

I'm really surprised at the lack of any real pub or tavern culture in Hawaii.  Sure we have the clubs and the tourist joints, but I haven't really come across anything that seems authentic.

The closest I've come to is a Mai Tai tent up by Haleiwa on the North Shore.  You can get a good stiff one and sit on the dune, sip it, and watch the sunset.


----------



## theletch1 (Jul 12, 2008)

I've never been to their brewpub but have had some of the Dogfishhead brew at a micro-brewers festival in Roanoke, Va.  Great beer.


----------



## terryl965 (Jul 12, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> I brew my own so my favorite pub would be my living room. I guarantee I get better service than anyone else.  My favorite "store bought" is Guinness so of course my favorite home brew is stout. I've brewed an oktoberfest and an English brown ale here as well. For taste, freshness and just the all around "neat" factor homebrew is the way to go.


 
So when I am in your neck of the woods I need to stop ne for some of that brew Right


----------



## theletch1 (Jul 12, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> So when I am in your neck of the woods I need to stop ne for some of that brew Right


Of course, Terry.  It's a very rare occurrance when I don't have any on hand.  I only have about a six pack of stout left but that just means I'll get to brew another batch soon.


----------



## terryl965 (Jul 12, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Of course, Terry. It's a very rare occurrance when I don't have any on hand. I only have about a six pack of stout left but that just means I'll get to brew another batch soon.


 
I have to remember that when I go though Roanoake the next time.


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 13, 2008)

We are low-volume vintners here and personally ... I prefer the service and the product here at my home (that which *I* am involved in making) to almost anything else, but for many factors.  We use all fruit for our berry wines with a carefully calculated alcohol contents between 18 and 20 percent.  This allows the fermentation process to naturally destroy any potentially harmful bacteria. I know when and how the fruit is picked and washed, chosen and crushed/juiced.  I know *exactly* what's in my wine and as a result, we have a higher quality product with no unnecessary additives, clarifiers, artificial flavorings or colors or aging accelerants.

At our place you could find a dessert wine pared with smoked spring salmon and whole grain wafers, cheeses and pates or just plain old snacks over by the spa. And you likely won't get a headache or hangover in the morning.

I can wear whatever I want, it never closes ... who could ask for more?


----------



## exile (Jul 13, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> We use all fruit for our berry wines with a carefully calculated alcohol contents *between 18 and 20 percent.*



Whoa, that is _mighty!_.



shesulsa said:


> At our place you could find a dessert wine pared with smoked spring salmon and whole grain wafers, cheeses and pates or just plain old snacks over by the spa. And you likely won't get a headache or hangover in the morning.



What is it Arni says? "Mmmmm, I'm getting hungry..."



shesulsa said:


> I can wear whatever I want, *it never closes* ... who could ask for more?



And that's the best part, eh? 

Dogfish Head 60 minutes IPA is a great, great bitter style beer. I slightly prefer the Stone Ruination Ale, but that's just because I like extremely bitter beer and SRA really overdoes the hopping. DH 60 has become a great American classic bitter. Another one in the same style, also very good, is Bell's Two-Hearted Ale. I'd be curious to know the impressions of people who've tried both, enough to form a sense of what the differences between them in terms of flavor are. Bell's also makes an overhopped beer, HopSlam, which is like the Two-Hearted Ale on steroids... yum, yum! If you can find it, definitely try it, it's superb. 

One thing that a lot of American microbrewers are very good about is leaving the yeast in the bottle, so that the beer is constantly conditioning up to the point you pour it. Bottle conditioning is a big issue over in the UK&#8212;once upon a time it was a very rare bird, and certain beers, Worthington White Shield in particular, were legendary because of it. Bottle-conditioning almost went the way of the dodo during the dark days of the 1960s, but it's come back in a big way there. In the States, it seems almost to be the default for the micros. So that's another thumbs-up for us... the problem is, you can't get any of these great beers on cask, served by handpump. Even where the bar serves them 'on draft', it's not really draft&#8212;_drawn_ by air-pressure&#8212;but rather shoved out the tap by C02 pressure. As soon as carbon dioxon meets yeasts, the yeast dies and the beer's no longer live. It's a real pity, because the Dogfish Head or Bell's or Stone would be scary-good if you could get them as real ales...but the only pubs in the US which use handpumps are the brewpubs themselves, for their own beer... :waah:


----------



## Sukerkin (Jul 13, 2008)

Being more of a wino than a beer drinker these days, Georgia's home-vintnering is great to read of.  One of my workmates makes his own wine and it sounds a fascinating process (tho' it does sound like you need a bit of room for storage and so forth).

Those alcohol percentages seem really high, tho' Georgia; doesn't it negatively affect the flavours?  Then again, some of the worst tasting wines I've ever drunk have been the weak ones from the bad harvests in Germany (about 11%) so maybe the alcohol level is integral to the taste?


----------



## exile (Jul 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Those alcohol percentages seem really high, tho' Georgia; doesn't it negatively affect the flavours?



A very alcoholic wine can give you a subjective sense of something like... heat, I guess. If the vintner is clever about it, that can be balanced out by other flavors. That's why a higher priced wine with strong alcohol content is going to be not just way better, but way _way_ better, than a similarly strong wine that's much cheaper... part of what you're paying for there is the craftsmanship that can tame all that alcohol.

This was one reason I never cared much for Zinfandelit was always made much too alcoholic, and very few Zin winemakers knew how to balance that element of the flavor.


----------



## exile (Jul 13, 2008)

Back to pubs: if you're ever in Utrecht, do not rest until you've found, and sampled a few of the 40 or so Belgian ales served (many in draft form) at _De Pintalier_. This is strictly a beer tavern: no food or anything fancy like that. Relatively small, warm polished wooden interior&#8212;it actually seems to _glow_, though that could be the effect of all those 10% beers :lol:&#8212;very very welcoming, extremely friendly staff who know their beers inside and out. My Dutch is pretty rudimentary, but as elsewhere in Holland, the population is essentially 100% fluent&#8212;scarily so, in fact&#8212;in English&#8212;they have a better command of the language than a good many of our native-born OSU undergraduates, alas&#8212;so you're never at a loss for words, so to speak. They have a bunch of specials that don't show up on their gorgeous, work-of-art menus&#8212;these are free, and framable, and I brought one back and did just that with it. The place is a beer drinker's Garden of Eden, and those Belgian brews... most of them are ones no one in this country's ever heard of, and they're so good that even confirmed hopheads don't mind giving up their fix of bitterness for an evening or two (or more... )


----------



## theletch1 (Jul 13, 2008)

Belgian beer (at least a good deal of it) is an acquired taste.  I just can't handle a lambic.  Any pub that gets Bob bubbling about it as in the above post has got to be good though so I'd not have a problem sitting and trying a few different brews out there.


----------



## exile (Jul 13, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Belgian beer (at least a good deal of it) is an acquired taste.  I just can't handle a lambic.  Any pub that gets Bob bubbling about it as in the above post has got to be good though so I'd not have a problem sitting and trying a few different brews out there.



Lambic's not my cup of tea either, actually (that sounds very odd to say, but there it is...) It's definitely an acquired taste and I've never thought it worth the trouble to acquire. There _are_ a lot of Belgians that are kind of mailed-fist-in-a-velvet-glove&#8212;fruity, soft, light but not thin in texture... and 11% or more!!?? :erg: Even the 8%+ kind have to be treated with respect. Duvel is a great beer, but it's _too_ good: that sort of mild pear-ish flavor and warmth make you think, well, one is good, two will be even better... and it's downhill from there... 

One thing that's nice about _De Pintalier_ is that they don't give you a huge amount in any glass. That way, you _can_ try a few without having to worry that you're going to wake up the day after tomorrow...somewhere you've never seen before,  in a completely different set of clothes than you sat down to drink in :lol:


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Being more of a wino than a beer drinker these days, Georgia's home-vintnering is great to read of.  One of my workmates makes his own wine and it sounds a fascinating process (tho' it does sound like you need a bit of room for storage and so forth).


Very educational for the kiddos, too.



> Those alcohol percentages seem really high, tho' Georgia; doesn't it negatively affect the flavours?  Then again, some of the worst tasting wines I've ever drunk have been the weak ones from the bad harvests in Germany (about 11%) so maybe the alcohol level is integral to the taste?


You really have to have more fruit than the average table wine which usually has about 7-9 percent.  18-20 percent is really for the headier, sweeter fruits like blackberry (and the other dark, sweet berries and cherries), white plum, muscats and dessert whites.  Any fruit with some acidic properties will have to be lower as to not kill the taste nor allow the PH to overwhelm.



exile said:


> A very alcoholic wine can give you a subjective sense of something like... heat, I guess. If the vintner is clever about it, that can be balanced out by other flavors. That's why a higher priced wine with strong alcohol content is going to be not just way better, but way _way_ better, than a similarly strong wine that's much cheaper... part of what you're paying for there is the craftsmanship that can tame all that alcohol.
> 
> This was one reason I never cared much for Zinfandelit was always made much too alcoholic, and very few Zin winemakers knew how to balance that element of the flavor.


Many of the zin makers (*cough - California - cough*) used artificial aging methods to speed up the process and thin out the juice.  Antifreeze is one of those agents.  Now, antifreeze is illegal to use in the wine industry in some states.


----------



## Makalakumu (Jul 13, 2008)

Bell's Two Hearted Ale is some yummy stuff.  I was drinking that exclusively at a little brew pub up in Ely MN.  It was new and didn't have its brewery up yet so they had Bell's on gravity pour.  Very good.

I can't wait to see how their beer turns out.

Belgian pubs.  I've haven't been to Belgium yet, but I did go to a great pub in Christchurch that was run by two brothers from Belgium.  The atmosphere was very international inside there and the beer was way too good.  I was walking sideways out of that pub.


----------



## exile (Jul 13, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> Bell's Two Hearted Ale is some yummy stuff.  I was drinking that exclusively at a little brew pub up in Ely MN.  It was new and didn't have its brewery up yet so they had Bell's on gravity pour.  Very good. I can't wait to see how their beer turns out.



Whoa, lucky you!!! Probably very, very few folk have gotten to drink Bell's DH as a real ale... 




maunakumu said:


> Belgian pubs.  I've haven't been to Belgium yet, but I did go to a great pub in Christchurch that was run by two brothers from Belgium.  The atmosphere was very international inside there and the beer was way too good.  I was walking sideways out of that pub.



Yeah, that's probably the main problem with Belgian beer... and the worst part is, you probably _thought_ you were walking straight ahead... has a very serious effect on one's sense of space and time, it does... :lol:


----------



## crushing (Jul 13, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> Bell's Two Hearted Ale is some yummy stuff. I was drinking that exclusively at a little brew pub up in Ely MN. It was new and didn't have its brewery up yet so they had Bell's on gravity pour. Very good.
> 
> I can't wait to see how their beer turns out.


 
There is a lovely beer garden at Bell's Brewery too.  I think they usually have live bands out in the beer garden on Fridays and Saturdays.  Just a wonderful atmosphere.  Bell's Two Hearted is up there on my list of IPAs.  At the top is Shorts Huma-Lupa-Licious and Founders' Centennial.  Founders had a nice festival with live music a couple weeks ago.  The beer was excellent and I was feeling REALLY good.    I've become partial to IPAs.  I had some Magic Hat #9 last weekend at the ROTHBURY Music Festival and could hardly choke it down.  It is supposed to be a great beer, but I think my hopped up drinks of late have Ruinated my taste for other beers.

A buddy I went golfing with this morning brought me a growler of Bootlet IPA from the Hideout brewery in Grand Rapids.  Good stuff too!


----------



## kailat (Jul 13, 2008)

OH my, this is going to be one of my favorite post ever..LOL.. MY FAVORITE PUBS and BREW PUBS.. are you ready?

MUNCIE, IN:

 HEOROT PUB;  absolutley one of the country if not the worlds finest whole in the wall pubs.. KNOWN for thier pizza... and over 300 different selections of brew... over 100 on tap selection

http://www.ratebeer.com/Place/indiana/muncie/the-heorot/1525.htm
http://www.myspace.com/atticheorot

FICKLE PEACH and MORTONS IRISH PUB;  actually all 3 locations serve nothing but import and micro brew beers. over 300 different selections of beer.

BLOOMINGTON, IN:

 UPLAND BREWERY;  http://www.uplandbeer.com/  not only do they have a good list of brew's but the food is awesome... just great..

 One that I have not been too yet.. but love thier beer is BELLS BREWERY in MICHIGAN  I love Oberon!  ; )

  But their are many other great breweries in and or around the area.


----------

