# Would you do this?  Parents beat daughters drug dealer up



## ballen0351 (Nov 14, 2013)

Updated: Wednesday,  November 13 2013, 11:01 PM EST The parents of a young woman face criminal charges in Carroll County  after police say they beat a man for giving their daughter drugs.  FOX45 learned that doctors have treated and released the victim from the  hospital. Police are still in the process of releasing information  about the baseball bat assault, but FOX45 has confirmed that four adults  have been accused of beating a man.  William Costigan, Tanya Costigan, Daniel Delmar, and Chatherine Lonas  are all facing first-degree burglary and assault charges.  According to charging documents, two of the suspects are the parents of  Kristin Delmar, who recently survived an overdose. Kristin's parents,  including her mother Tonya, blame Kristin's boyfriend and suspected  supplier - Eric Mandley.  Police told FOX45, the four suspects broke into Mandley's home In Mount  Airy on Sunday, and his sister witnessed the attack.  Investigators say the two male suspects, kicked in the door, and then  Costigan grabbed Mandley and began beating him with a wooden baseball  bat while the other man stood by with a metal bat. Mandley's sister ran  outside, and called 911.  Police arrested the suspects, all of whom posted bail on Monday. While  an on camera interview was denied, Kristins mother told FOX45 that she  was concerned for her daughters well-being.  According to investigators, police have not yet charged him with any  crime. 

 Read More at: http://foxbaltimore.com/news/featur...aughters-drug-dealer-23424.shtml#.UoVXquKYYsE



As a cop I wouldnt because I have other ways to get him legally.  If I wasn't a cop I dont think I would but I could see it happening


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 14, 2013)

Not likely, but I wouldn't completely rule it out if all the legal methods failed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.


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## billc (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, at least they went with the traditional wooden bat over the metal one...It has a nicer tone on impact...don't you think...

I have to agree with Dirty Dog...what can you do...

Here are some questions for the law enforcement here on martialtalk...If a father comes to you guys and says there is a dealer selling to his daughter...what happens next...I'm not looking to put you guys in a bad light...I just thought it should be clear how you guys are limited by the law...and how that is sometimes less than helpful when it comes to dealing with a problem like this.

For example...my brother broke up with a girl in high school...she convinced a real nut job of a guy to beat my brother up...he avoided the guy, we talked to the police...they said until he attacked...they couldn't do anything...eventually there was an encounter and it worked out okay, but no police were ever involved after the first discussion...


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## K-man (Nov 14, 2013)

There are a number of issues here. In would seem that the girl had been using drugs in the past. Now the parents find out one of her suppliers. They want to blame someone for their daughter's behaviour. Blame the dealer.

Unfortunately if he wasn't there someone else would supply because people start taking drugs because they want to and they continue taking drugs because they want to. It is only when they get to the stage of wanting to stop that parents, friends or medical intervention will be successful.

To me the parents have with the best of intentions crossed the line and they will have a lot of public sympathy, but it is not the answer to their problem and now, it would seem, they will have a problem of their own.


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## Carol (Nov 14, 2013)

No, I would not organize an armed home invasion, proceed with it, and beat the guy up.  Too over the top for me.


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## Carol (Nov 14, 2013)

Is this the girl who overdosed?  Busted in January for stealing over $1600 in merchandise? 

http://gaithersburg.patch.com/group...-caught-stealing-more-than-1-600-in30bb31b43d


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## ballen0351 (Nov 14, 2013)

Carol said:


> Is this the girl who overdosed?  Busted in January for stealing over $1600 in merchandise?
> 
> http://gaithersburg.patch.com/group...-caught-stealing-more-than-1-600-in30bb31b43d


Could be from where the theft occurred and where the girl that OD is only about 25 min apart


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## Carol (Nov 14, 2013)

Looks like it.  Another news source used her full name.

http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/n...cle_d4b85795-924d-5b6b-bfd2-6f1fc7a4b6fa.html

This looks like her too.  Filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2011.  In her early 20s? What the...

http://ia600601.us.archive.org/14/items/gov.uscourts.mdb.581920/gov.uscourts.mdb.581920.docket.html


Anyway....obviously I don't know the whole story but it sounds like she's someone with a boatload of issues, and has had them for sometime.  Maybe drugs are at the root of all of them.  

I can understand the frustration.  A good friend of mine owns a small multi-dwelling building.   He takes a lot of pride in his building, his neighborhood, and treats his tenants like family....some of whom have rented from him for over 10 years.  Across the street from them is a drug dealer.  Doesn't deal to his residents, but it still means drugs and drug traffic in the neighborhood.  Frustrating as hell to see it go on.

But, I still can't see organizing a home invasion to deal as a way of dealing with the problem.


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## K-man (Nov 14, 2013)

Carol said:


> Is this the girl who overdosed?  Busted in January for stealing over $1600 in merchandise?
> 
> http://gaithersburg.patch.com/group...-caught-stealing-more-than-1-600-in30bb31b43d


Bloody big purse!


> _Store employees stopped Delmar in the parking lot as she was trying to leave. She allegedly was found to have 6 rings, 26 necklaces, 17 watches, 5 pairs of earrings and 9 pieces of clothing in her purse, according to the report._


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## ballen0351 (Nov 14, 2013)

Carol said:


> Looks like it.  Another news source used her full name.
> 
> http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/n...cle_d4b85795-924d-5b6b-bfd2-6f1fc7a4b6fa.html
> 
> ...


Sounds like this was the straw that broke the camels back.  And they took all the frustration for their daugherts bad choices on this guy


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## granfire (Nov 14, 2013)

Not having read the links...their potential for violence (or otherwise unwise actions) might be part of the daughter's problems?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 14, 2013)

They could have tried the whole parenting thing.


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## Tames D (Nov 14, 2013)

I wouldn't let the drug dealer off so easy just because she is a wasted case. Drug dealers are part of the problem, if not the whole problem. If I can't buy drugs, I can't abuse them. If law enforcement isn't going to enforce the law, maybe the parents need to?


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## K-man (Nov 15, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> They could have tried the whole parenting thing.


I know this is a commonly held belief, but from experience in that field, parental guidance can only go so far. Ultimately the individual is responsible for their own actions. Once a child is of a certain age, which varies from case to case, nothing a parent can do will have any effect.
:asian:


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## Grenadier (Nov 15, 2013)

What kind of proof did they have?  

I do not advocate private justice, but if they had proof that the boyfriend was the one who gave her the drugs, and if nothing were done by the authorities, then I can understand why they did it.  

I agree, that the girl wasn't exactly a saint, and her sense of morality is probably what got her in trouble in the first place, given that she made the conscious decision to live this kind of lifestyle.


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## granfire (Nov 15, 2013)

K-man said:


> I know this is a commonly held belief, but from experience in that field, parental guidance can only go so far. Ultimately the individual is responsible for their own actions. Once a child is of a certain age, which varies from case to case, nothing a parent can do will have any effect.
> :asian:



From talking to people who admit they are using, I generally get the impression that things have not been well in paradise from very early on. The small, subtle things...you know, the stuff that flies under the radar and makes the outside pity the parents when the kids mess up...


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## ballen0351 (Nov 15, 2013)

billc said:


> Well, at least they went with the traditional wooden bat over the metal one...It has a nicer tone on impact...don't you think...
> 
> I have to agree with Dirty Dog...what can you do...
> 
> Here are some questions for the law enforcement here on martialtalk...If a father comes to you guys and says there is a dealer selling to his daughter...what happens next...I'm not looking to put you guys in a bad light...I just thought it should be clear how you guys are limited by the law...and how that is sometimes less than helpful when it comes to dealing with a problem like this.


It depends on how much info they provide.  If it was pretty detailed or sounded legit.  I'd forward the info to our drug unit.  If it wasn't really creditable more I'm pissed at her boy friend so I'm calling the cops (which happens all the time). Then I'd run a little background on the guy and see if it's a valid complaint if not I'd do nothing if it seems semi possible I'd forward it to the drug guys.  As a drug cop upon getting the info there are lots of ways I could proceed depending in the info that I was given



> For example...my brother broke up with a girl in high school...she convinced a real nut job of a guy to beat my brother up...he avoided the guy, we talked to the police...they said until he attacked...they couldn't do anything...eventually there was an encounter and it worked out okay, but no police were ever involved after the first discussion...


See that's slightly different then a drug complaint.  There really isn't much we can do about that legally.  I'd tell the potential victim to seek a protection order and maybe depending on how serious the threat oa I'd go talk to all parties involved and warn against any violence.  But in this state its not a crime to make threats.  I can say I'm going to kill you or beat you up and its legal until you take some step towards doing the act.  Like I'm coming to kill you and im stopped down the street from your house with a gun in my car or something like that.


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## Scott T (Nov 15, 2013)

As someone who watched a former girlfriend fight - and lose to - her addiction to drugs, I have no issue with turning any dealer's skull into a canoe. Kill 'em all.


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## Steve (Nov 15, 2013)

I would not do this.  My focus would be on helping my daughter, getting her out of the environment she's in and getting her whatever help she needs.  The goal, in my book, is to try and minimize any ties to the criminal elements, so organizing a raid would seem to be a bad idea. 

Not to mention that their names are on the record now.  We don't know how big or small potatoes this guy was, and this raid may have put the rest of his family in danger.


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## Instructor (Nov 15, 2013)

"In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy it is necessary to act outside the law-to pursuenatural justice."
Frank Castle


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## pgsmith (Nov 15, 2013)

I would never do that, because it's just stupid. First, it is an attempt to assign blame to the boyfriend instead of their own obviously inadequate job of teaching their daughter how to be a responsible adult. Second, if the guy did need to be beaten, that is something you are supposed to do clandestinely, not by breaking into his house and making him a victim.

  It does go quite some way, in my opinion, in explaining how their daughter ended up making bad decisions of her own.



Tames D said:


> I wouldn't let the drug dealer off so easy just because she is a wasted case. Drug dealers are part of the problem, if not the whole problem. If I can't buy drugs, I can't abuse them. If law enforcement isn't going to enforce the law, maybe the parents need to?



  Sorry, but that a ridiculous outlook. How far do you want to take that thought? If you can't buy a gun, you can't hold up that store right? If you can't drive a car, you won't be having an accident. If you can't walk outside your house, you can't step off the curb and break your ankle. 

  That is simply attempting to make someone else responsible for your actions, and is a major problem in our society today in my opinion.



K-man said:


> I know this is a commonly held belief, but from experience in that field, parental guidance can only go so far. Ultimately the individual is responsible for their own actions. Once a child is of a certain age, which varies from case to case, nothing a parent can do will have any effect.
> :asian:



  While I agree with you, it has been my experience that most problems in young adults stem from the lack of ability to make sound decisions. This is a learned skill and is almost always the result of sound parenting. At home is the best place to learn how to make good decisions, but most parents are clueless on how to teach it to their offspring. The decision that this woman's parents made in breaking into his house and beating up the boyfriend points to exactly where she learned her decision making skills from.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think in this case it was stupid on the parents part.  I am kinda surprised it doesn't happen more for other things.  I know a guy that killed a man that sexually molested his son.  I'm always surprised that doesn't happen more.  Like when the child is truly a victim.


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## Tames D (Nov 15, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> I would never do that, because it's just stupid. First, it is an attempt to assign blame to the boyfriend instead of their own obviously inadequate job of teaching their daughter how to be a responsible adult. Second, if the guy did need to be beaten, that is something you are supposed to do clandestinely, not by breaking into his house and making him a victim.
> 
> It does go quite some way, in my opinion, in explaining how their daughter ended up making bad decisions of her own.
> 
> ...



I have a ridiculous outlook? They suck people into a world of addiction for money, and you're saying that's cool and the victim should be punished? God Damn The Pusher Man! Take him out of the equation, and what do you have? Less addiction to drugs.
They are the lowest of the low. And you're ok with that.


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## K-man (Nov 15, 2013)

Tames D said:


> They suck people into a world of addiction for money, and you're saying that's cool and the victim should be punished? God Damn The Pusher Man! Take him out of the equation, and what do you have? Less addiction to drugs.
> They are the lowest of the low. And you're ok with that.


I'm not sure how the system works in the US but I'll give you an idea of what happens here. Someone hooked on drugs needs to use. Whether society approves or not, whether parents are trying to get them off drugs, the addict is going to use until such time that he/she is incarcerated, dead, or has reached the decision that it's time to quit. So how do you pay for the addiction. For some it's armed robbery, for others it's burglary. Others might steal cars and others will go into prostitution. Not one of those is a good option for society or the addict. The majority here would go into some form of dealing, generally small scale. They will buy a larger quantity than they need for their own personal use and they then sell it on to their friends at an increased price. I would suggest that most pushers are just one step up the ladder from the end point user. Removing people at that level has a minuscule effect on overall use, and they are not the lowest of the low. Those people are much higher up the tree.
:asian:


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 18, 2013)

Tames D said:


> I have a ridiculous outlook? They suck people into a world of addiction for money, and you're saying that's cool and the victim should be punished? God Damn The Pusher Man! Take him out of the equation, and what do you have? Less addiction to drugs.
> They are the lowest of the low. And you're ok with that.



I really have no sympathy for drug dealers, whether they are also users or not.  But those who use have much responsibility in the matter as well, for their own actions.  They obviously desire to use, probably enjoy using, and don't usually want to stop, but rather just have easy access.

There are exceptions of course, and those people are easier to help, as with all excursions outside the law.  But most criminals are doing what they do because they want to; use drugs, break into cars or homes, steal at stores, whatever.

So again, no sympathy for dealers, but most users must chart their own course.


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## MJS (Nov 18, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Updated: Wednesday,  November 13 2013, 11:01 PM EST The parents of a young woman face criminal charges in Carroll County  after police say they beat a man for giving their daughter drugs.  FOX45 learned that doctors have treated and released the victim from the  hospital. Police are still in the process of releasing information  about the baseball bat assault, but FOX45 has confirmed that four adults  have been accused of beating a man.  William Costigan, Tanya Costigan, Daniel Delmar, and Chatherine Lonas  are all facing first-degree burglary and assault charges.  According to charging documents, two of the suspects are the parents of  Kristin Delmar, who recently survived an overdose. Kristin's parents,  including her mother Tonya, blame Kristin's boyfriend and suspected  supplier - Eric Mandley.  Police told FOX45, the four suspects broke into Mandley's home In Mount  Airy on Sunday, and his sister witnessed the attack.  Investigators say the two male suspects, kicked in the door, and then  Costigan grabbed Mandley and began beating him with a wooden baseball  bat while the other man stood by with a metal bat. Mandley's sister ran  outside, and called 911.  Police arrested the suspects, all of whom posted bail on Monday. While  an on camera interview was denied, Kristins mother told FOX45 that she  was concerned for her daughters well-being.  According to investigators, police have not yet charged him with any  crime.
> 
> Read More at: http://foxbaltimore.com/news/featur...aughters-drug-dealer-23424.shtml#.UoVXquKYYsE
> 
> ...



With the way the courts work sometimes, I can certainly see the frustration.  What I mean is...when you see the same people, commit the same crimes, and go thru the same revolving door, with little to nothing happening to them, I can see how faith can be lost, thus people look for 'alternative' methods, such as we see here.  Of course, the smart thing would be to call the cops, and deal with this legally, but as I said, with the way some people go thru that door, faith tends to get lost.

Like DD said, I probably wouldn't but the thought would certainly cross my mind.


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## Steve (Nov 18, 2013)

oftheherd1 said:


> I really have no sympathy for drug dealers, whether they are also users or not.  But those who use have much responsibility in the matter as well, for their own actions.  They obviously desire to use, probably enjoy using, and don't usually want to stop, but rather just have easy access.
> 
> There are exceptions of course, and those people are easier to help, as with all excursions outside the law.  But most criminals are doing what they do because they want to; use drugs, break into cars or homes, steal at stores, whatever.


There are a significant number of drug addicts who are self-medicating.  In some cases, such as weed for people who have anxiety disorders as an example, they will say that the weed is cheaper and has less severe side affects than the 'legal' prescriptions.  

In other cases, it's not uncommon to see people with schizophrenia or other more severe mental impairments who are taking equally severe drugs.  And, as you might expect, there's a lot of synergy going on there.  The drugs exacarbate the impairment, and the impairment helps drive the addiction.  Simply put, heroin or whatever may make the voices stop in the short term, but in the long term likely make the impairment more severe.  

Another common source of new addicts are runaways brought into the sex trade.  Once again, they're running away from home at a very young age. Whatever has happened to drive them to do that, whether molestation/abuse, mental illness, or some combination, their decision making abilities aren't strong.  So, when a nice looking guy asks them if they want a place to stay, they say yes.

My point isn't to excuse people who are addicted.  I'm simply pointing out that it is not always a situation where a perfectly sane, perfectly well adjusted person says, "Hey, that looks like fun.  I'd like to risk addiction and chase the dragon for the rest of my life."


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

Consuming mind altering chemicals and beginning/continuing drug addiction, whether the drugs are legal or not, is one of the most selfish things that as a human being you can do.   Blaming someone else for the addiction isn't solving anything.


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## Tenacious_Red (Nov 18, 2013)

Perhaps a wooden bat to both the daughter and dealer would have been more beneficial?


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## Steve (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> Consuming mind altering chemicals and beginning/continuing drug addiction, whether the drugs are legal or not, is one of the most selfish things that as a human being you can do.   Blaming someone else for the addiction isn't solving anything.


Having a beer is selfish?  Drinking coffee or black tea?  

What about painkillers?  

You're speaking in very broad, sweeping terms, but it sounds like you have something pretty specific in mind.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve said:


> Having a beer is selfish?  Drinking coffee or black tea?
> 
> What about painkillers?
> 
> You're speaking in very broad, sweeping terms, but it sounds like you have something pretty specific in mind.



All of those serve one single purpose, to make the person taking them feel 'better'. Nobody ever has a cigarette for another's benefit.


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## pgsmith (Nov 18, 2013)

Tames D said:


> I have a ridiculous outlook? They suck people into a world of addiction for money, and you're saying that's cool and the victim should be punished? God Damn The Pusher Man! Take him out of the equation, and what do you have? Less addiction to drugs.
> They are the lowest of the low. And you're ok with that.



  Please point out exactly where I said that I was OK with anything? I never wrote OK, nor did I intimate that anything was OK. I merely pointed out that you saying "if I can't buy drugs I can't abuse them" is a totally ridiculous outlook. I even explained why I thought that, but you were much more interested in displaying ridiculous histrionics and attempting to shove words into my mouth than you were in actually reading and thinking about what I wrote. That's OK though, I understand that a lot of people would much rather have someone else be responsible for their actions, because that way they can blame someone else for their problems. I, however, think that everyone should be responsible for their own actions. 



			
				Dinkydoo said:
			
		

> All of those serve one single purpose, to make the person taking them feel 'better'. Nobody ever has a cigarette for another's benefit.


  That is a very narrow-minded viewpoint. I know a couple of doctors that work the ER regularly at our county hospital. Both of them practically live on coffee in order to keep them awake and alert during their shift. I'm pretty sure they both make many other people feel 'better'. I suffer from chronic knee pain. Some days it gets too bad and I have to take pain killers so I don't snap at the people I work with. I could handle the pain, but taking pain killers make the work day 'better' for those around me. Very few things in life are black and white. Recognizing this makes life a lot less difficult in my opinion.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 18, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> That is a very narrow-minded viewpoint. I know a couple of doctors that work the ER regularly at our county hospital. Both of them practically live on coffee in order to keep them awake and alert during their shift. I'm pretty sure they both make many other people feel 'better'. I suffer from chronic knee pain. Some days it gets too bad and I have to take pain killers so I don't snap at the people I work with. I could handle the pain, but taking pain killers make the work day 'better' for those around me. Very few things in life are black and white. Recognizing this makes life a lot less difficult in my opinion.



The coffee makes the doctors 'feel better', not the patient. The pain killers make you feel better and make your life more manageable, that's fine, but please keep in mind that I specifically referred to "addiction" in my initial post.


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## K-man (Nov 18, 2013)

Something else that comes to mind is the 'double standards'. Children see their parents drinking alcohol. Often they see the effects of the parents drinking too much alcohol. Then they see their friends smoking pot and it looks pretty much the same. One is legal, one is not. Both are potentially harmful both to the person and to the society in which they live.

Next double standard. The average party goer is obviously far more sensible than the medical crowd and the lawmakers. They know that they can take their pills when out clubbing to enhance their experience and it doesn't cause any problems. Mmm! The ones who choose heroin are just stupid because _everyone _knows that heroin is addictive. Both are illegal and the trafficking of both is illegal. Yet an awful lot of people going clubbing are condoning drug trafficking by buying the product. The people at parties selling drugs have the same idea as the pusher in the OP. They either are doing it to make a lot of easy money or they are doing it to pay for their own drugs. Either way it is illegal and potentially causing harm but how many parents would beat up the supplier in the clubbing scenario?
:asian:


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## pgsmith (Nov 18, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> The coffee makes the doctors 'feel better', not the patient. The pain killers make you feel better and make your life more manageable, that's fine, but please keep in mind that I specifically referred to "addiction" in my initial post.



  Maybe so, but it still doesn't change the fact that it is a narrow-minded viewpoint. Zero-tolerance in regards to _anything_ is not a healthy attitude to have, and will eventuially lead to added stress.


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## Dinkydoo (Nov 19, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> Maybe so, but it still doesn't change the fact that it is a narrow-minded viewpoint. Zero-tolerance in regards to _anything_ is not a healthy attitude to have, and will eventuially lead to added stress.



You're probably right. I've been having a really hard time these past couple of days (nothing to do with the thread topic) and I think it's clouded my judgement a bit and made me a little less tolerant of opposing points of view than usual!


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## pgsmith (Nov 19, 2013)

Dinkydoo said:


> You're probably right. I've been having a really hard time these past couple of days (nothing to do with the thread topic) and I think it's clouded my judgement a bit and made me a little less tolerant of opposing points of view than usual!



  I know exactly what you mean, and tend to get that very way myself much more often than I would like to admit! 

  Hope it gets better!


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## Tames D (Nov 20, 2013)

pgsmith said:


> Please point out exactly where I said that I was OK with anything? I never wrote OK, nor did I intimate that anything was OK. I merely pointed out that you saying "if I can't buy drugs I can't abuse them" is a totally ridiculous outlook. I even explained why I thought that, but you were much more interested in displaying ridiculous histrionics and attempting to shove words into my mouth than you were in actually reading and thinking about what I wrote. That's OK though, I understand that a lot of people would much rather have someone else be responsible for their actions, because that way they can blame someone else for their problems. I, however, think that everyone should be responsible for their own actions.
> 
> 
> That is a very narrow-minded viewpoint. I know a couple of doctors that work the ER regularly at our county hospital. Both of them practically live on coffee in order to keep them awake and alert during their shift. I'm pretty sure they both make many other people feel 'better'. I suffer from chronic knee pain. Some days it gets too bad and I have to take pain killers so I don't snap at the people I work with. I could handle the pain, but taking pain killers make the work day 'better' for those around me. Very few things in life are black and white. Recognizing this makes life a lot less difficult in my opinion.



You use the word "ridiculous" way to much when you describe me. Very insulting. If you really want me to respond to your questions, then I would appreciate a little respect. Until then...


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## pgsmith (Nov 20, 2013)

Tames D said:


> You use the word "ridiculous" way to much when you describe me. Very insulting. If you really want me to respond to your questions, then I would appreciate a little respect. Until then...



  No problem. Not all that interested in your response anyway.


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