# A newbie question about the Presas brothers



## latchless (Jan 14, 2005)

Hello everyone!  I'm brand new here and have a question I'm hoping you can answer for me.

I stumbled on MartialTalk.com while researching the school I just joined.  Please forgive my ignorance if I'm bringing up a tired or volitile topic.  I just figured someone here could clarify.

I have been looking for a Filipino school near my house for a while and came upon a Kombatan Arnis school, a style founded by Ernesto Presas.  When I Googled "Arnis" I learned alot about Ernesto's brother Remy, the founder of Modern Arnis (and how I stumbled my way here ).  

It seems to me that the brothers went there separate ways at one point.  I guess my question is: what happened?  Was it a bad falling out?  Is there a rivalry between the "schools"?  

I'm just curious, and don't want to stir things up if this topic is "taboo".  

Thanks for your help!


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## dearnis.com (Jan 14, 2005)

There is not a significant rivalry between schools or styles, and there are some accomplished people ranked in both systems.
As to the cause.... that is in the past and better left there.  If you stay in long enough you will come across pieces of the story; IMO they are best left private.
Not taboo as such, but not, I think, in good taste.
Best of luck in your studies.


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## Guro Harold (Jan 14, 2005)

Hi latchless,

Welcome to MartialTalk!!!

I haven't heard of any rivalry in the US between the two systems.

As for the relationship between GM Remy and his brother, Ernesto, the only thing that I would say on this issue is that if they had any conflict, it was between them and its in the past. :asian: 

Best regards,

Palusut


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## modarnis (Jan 14, 2005)

As Chad put so well :asian: , the past is in the past.For basic historical reference when Remy Presas came to the US in the mid to late 1970's the arts forked in their evolution from that point.

In some sense, the Kombatan has focus on double stick and knife in a very different light than Modern Arnis.  Remy Presas' approach to teaching and propagating his art allowed for a fusion with many of the high level people he trained, so elements of jujitsu, pressure point fighting, wing chun and tai chi  created a more free flowing art that, like Bruce Lee's JKD, becomes adapted to individuals fighting styles.

Find a competent instructor in either, and you will enjoy your exploration of the FMA's


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## Dan Anderson (Jan 14, 2005)

latchless said:
			
		

> It seems to me that the brothers went there separate ways at one point.  I guess my question is: what happened?  Was it a bad falling out?  Is there a rivalry between the "schools"?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Hi,

In a nutshell, there was a falling out between the brothers and they went their separate ways.  The reason is no one's business other than Remy and Ernesto's.  

This next part is what is important.  When Ernesto had a heart attack, Remy went and saw him and the rift was mended as brothers.  By this time both Modern Arnis and Kombatan were both well established as their own entities.  

I have not encountered ANY rivalry with anyone from Kombatan.  In fact, the last time GM Ernesto Presas was in my area, his rep in this area, Mike Bowers, brought _him _ by to meet _me_.  I was surprised by the courtesy because in the general view, _he _ is _my _ senior.  I was invited to GM Ernesto's seminar the next day and we exchanged books.  I haven't heard of anyone else having a rivalry with anyone from Kombatan.  I consider them my cousins.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## latchless (Jan 14, 2005)

Thanks everyone for your replies (and patience!). You're right, it's none of my business.  I was just curious.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 14, 2005)

latchless said:
			
		

> Hello everyone!  I'm brand new here and have a question I'm hoping you can answer for me.
> 
> I stumbled on MartialTalk.com while researching the school I just joined.  Please forgive my ignorance if I'm bringing up a tired or volitile topic.  I just figured someone here could clarify.
> 
> ...




Read some of the older threads and also search here for Ernesto and Kombaton and such. You will find some mentions of the this discussion before.

I also have not met or heard of any issues between the two groups, even when GM Remy Presas was alive.  I like Rick Manglinong, who is a very nice and great person who also is a very accomplished Kombaton instructor. Ihave had the pleasure to work with him on the same floor and also to see him teach more than once. He is in the Tahoe Area, if you get that way, look him up.

 :asian:


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## Andrew Evans (Jan 15, 2005)

I agree with the Modern Arnis brothers on the East and West coast. Even in the Midwest, the Kombatan folks are pretty cordial. They are treated us respectfully when we visited them.


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## Cruentus (Jan 15, 2005)

I am in basic agreement with everyone here.

I think that checking out both Modern Arnis and Kombaton is a good thing. From what I have experienced, both styles have good qualities and are good complements for each other. If there is only Kombaton in your area, then I think that studying it would be a wise choice.

Paul


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## Andrew Evans (Jan 19, 2005)

latchless said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for your replies (and patience!). You're right, it's none of my business.  I was just curious.


Latchless,

It happens to everyone. Just want you to know that I have asked the wrong question and in the wrong way. You did it in a tasteful manner.

I also want you to know that we are not being elitist in anyway. What we are trying to say is that we don't want to incite any ill feelings on this public forum. Historically, people learn better when they share in a positive manner.

I promise you that you will learn about what you previously asked (and more) during your journey. I wish you well.

Take care,
Andrew


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## LAKANPOPOT (Mar 7, 2005)

You guys are just great! And I am a Kombatan instructor. I believe one of the reasons we from the Philippines Kombatan people have lots of respect and love for the Modern Arnis people. Is because we are Modern Arnis in heart but only Kombatan by name. If I was asked what my style is I always respond Modern Arnis. follow up is that now our GM prefers to call his style Kombatan. Weird but true. We (meaning as instructors from the Philippines) actually felt that we were losing our identity. My seniors and I were trying to convince GM Ernesto to talk to GM Remy to do a seminar and call it the Dynamic Duo. GM Ernesto loved the idea. We said we should fuse the arts to go full circle. To make the Presas family art complete. But due to health reasons it did not go thru. What a dream come true it would have been. Now my training partner and I are trying to do our research on Modern Arnis to go full circle. I believe it's just different personalities made it a different flavor. Just my two centavos. 

Lakanpopot


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## dearnis.com (Mar 7, 2005)

nice post.  I have always enjoyed exposure to Kombaton/Ernesto Presas material  because 1) the practitioners have represented themselves and their art well and 2) it has always provided insight into what I do.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 7, 2005)

As someone in the know on this topic let me say this. The problem was between the brothers and it stayed that way. I have spent time with both of them away from the seminars. This information was never shared openly! The brothers both had too much class to play those kinds of games. I found out only by spending years with Remy and doing my own research. As far as Ernesto's heart attack goes, I was told it was a coma during a routine visit to the hospital. 

As far as any rumors of style rivalries go, I would say are false. Both Remy and Ernesto treated each others students as family. The second time I met Ernesto his wife was there and we all went to the casino together and I was treated as a member. Are the family problems TABOO? I dont think so. Should they be exposed on the net? I think that would be in poor taste. Know this, if you attend events in either program you will most likely treat like one of our family.


 :asian:


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## LAKANPOPOT (Mar 7, 2005)

I also feel that it is a growth for me to study the material GM Remy teaches. You see the thing about our GM is he would not and still is trying not to show the things that GM Remy shows. Mind you I trained as a private student of GM Ernesto and he would show me things that to his way of warning me not to show it. Then I meet GM Remy at one seminar and he shows me and asks me if I have seen the movements he is showing me. I said yes. But cannot teach it. I was warned. The other way around for us was. When GM Remy was visiting the Philippines and saw us teaching knife to the NBI( Filipino FBI). We were asked who we learned it from. When we said it was handed down to us by Sir Ernesto we were told he (refering to GM Remy) promised their father that he would not teach the the Presas knife system. 

One things for sure, we in Kombatan did not get the bulk of the left hand tapi-tapi. Because as we know GM Remy is the lefty in the family. But everything else was the same just the names were different in the solo baston aspect. The espada y daga also was GM Ernesto's favorite and dulo dulo. Both have different priorities. Plus the jujitsu integrated by Gm Remy had the small circle jujitsu flavor. To me it was an eye opener. Because GM E always said analyze your technique and detail. I will not spoon feed you. So whatever I came up with was what I saw what GM Remy was teaching here. It was fun to see that I was in the right direction. Hope one of these days we can do a Modern Arnis and Kombatan get together and share our talents. As a brotherhood. 

Lakanpopot


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