# Order of Forms



## DanT (Feb 6, 2017)

Okay so in most Yip Man lineages the order goes:

Sil Lim Tao
Chum Kiu
Biu Jee
Mook Yan Jong
Luk Dim Boon Gwun
Bat Jam Do

Is your school different in terms of form order?


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## ThatVTGuy (Feb 6, 2017)

Siu Lim Tau
Chum Kiu
Dummy basics and 1/2 MYJ
Biu Jee-2/2 MYJ
Weapons


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## geezer (Feb 6, 2017)

DanT said:


> ...Is your school different in terms of form order?



Nope. That's how we do it too.


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## wckf92 (Feb 6, 2017)

DanT said:


> Okay so in most Yip Man lineages the order goes:
> 
> Sil Lim Tao
> Chum Kiu
> ...



Pretty much the same. Tri-poles (aka gerk jongs) are sometimes reserved for later/after weapons...


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## Nobody Important (Feb 6, 2017)

Baat Sik Dan Da
Sup Yee San Sau
Siu Lin Tau
Fei Ying Biu
Chum Kiu
Luk Dim Boon Kwan
Jung Kuen
Biu Jee
Yum Yang Dit Ming Do
Jook Jit Lin


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## DanT (Feb 6, 2017)

I should add that I learned the Bat Jam Do right after I got chum kiu down nice for fun. Also we do the following supplementary forms:

San Jin
Dragon Punching
Hong Jong


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## Danny T (Feb 6, 2017)

Siu Lim Tau
Chum Kiu
First half of Mook Yan Jong
Biu Jee
2nd half of Mook Yan Jong
Weapons


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## wingchun100 (Feb 7, 2017)

Mine flipped the dummy and Biu Jee.


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## ShortBridge (Feb 7, 2017)

wckf92 said:


> Pretty much the same. Tri-poles (aka gerk jongs) are sometimes reserved for later/after weapons...



Same in our branch of the tree, but we teach Biu Jee after the Mook Jong. Is that a before/after thing with DL?


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## wckf92 (Feb 7, 2017)

ShortBridge said:


> Same in our branch of the tree, but we teach Biu Jee after the Mook Jong. Is that a before/after thing with DL?



IME...it's kinda a "during" or after


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## Juany118 (Feb 7, 2017)

DanT said:


> Okay so in most Yip Man lineages the order goes:
> 
> Sil Lim Tao
> *"advanced" SLT*
> ...



Added the additional form.  The added SLT is largely the "regular with some basic footwork added and some other movements that remind me of some mainland SLTs.


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## Vajramusti (Feb 7, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> Added the additional form.  The added SLT is largely the "regular with some basic footwork added and some other movements that remind me of some mainland SLTs.


-------------------------------------------------------
Not so in Ip Man's form with good reasons. Advanced slt is Cheung's work.


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## Juany118 (Feb 7, 2017)

Vajramusti said:


> -------------------------------------------------------
> Not so in Ip Man's form with good reasons. Advanced slt is Cheung's work.



I am aware that it is exclusive to TWC, in terms of those who were students of YM.  I should have added that fact however.


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## DanT (Feb 7, 2017)

We do SLT on one leg once the normal one is pretty good. Goal is for a student to do it for about 3 minutes each leg without falling over.


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## Danny T (Feb 7, 2017)

DanT said:


> We do SLT on one leg once the normal one is pretty good. Goal is for a student to do it for about 3 minutes each leg without falling over.


 

We do as well having to hold the leg over a stool.


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## gojusi (Feb 7, 2017)

I think my old club only had 3-4 forms. Si Lim Tao was the first, followed by a second which was "18 moves" (can't remember the Chinese name for it), followed by a 2-man-form. I never got to the 4th set. There was a 5th which was performed with a 9 ring broadsword, but I never did weapons training.


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## geezer (Feb 7, 2017)

gojusi said:


> I think my old club only had 3-4 forms. Si Lim Tao was the first, followed by a second which was "18 moves" (can't remember the Chinese name for it), followed by a 2-man-form. I never got to the 4th set. There was a 5th which was performed with a 9 ring broadsword, but I never did weapons training.



That's different. What lineage/branch of WC was that?


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## geezer (Feb 7, 2017)

Danny T said:


> View attachment 20374
> We do as well having to hold the leg over a stool.



I _hate _single-leg SNT! I have fused ankles with no lateral movement possible--- and that lateral correction is the normal way you maintain static balance on one foot. With much practice at one time  I could hold my balance about as well as my lower - intermediate level students. That was when I was much younger and fitter! Eventually I stopped beating myself up over it and focused on gaining functional, _dynamic _balance and let my Sr. students lead that one-legged form exercise! 

Sometimes I will work it _alone,_ holding my toe a few inches from the wall so I can steady myself with my foot touching the wall for a moment if need be, and having the wall close to provide a focus point really helps. That way, at least I can get the conditioning benefits ...but sadly, my static balance is what it is.


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## yak sao (Feb 7, 2017)

In addition to one legged SNT, I do the same thing throughout the CK form.
Our lineage has the back weighted stance, so throughout the CK form when I get to a different stance I raise up to one leg and hold it for several seconds. Going through the entire form like that is a good leg workout. Not to mention when you go back and practice the form in the the normal fashion right after, it has a nice flow to it and the stance is well balanced and very solid.


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## DanT (Feb 7, 2017)

How long does an average student spend on SLT? I spent 2 years on it before learning CK, but I've heard "horror" stories where a student will spend 5 years on SLT, even to the point where they are getting little correction because it's near perfect, before learning CK.


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## wckf92 (Feb 7, 2017)

DanT said:


> How long does an average student spend on SLT?



I spent about 6 months


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## yak sao (Feb 7, 2017)

It's been my experience that you can only get so good at SNT when your only point of reference is SNT. When the student then adds CK to the equation, their SNT will improve further. Same for CK. It can only go so far before it needs a boost from Biu Tse.....and on and on.


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## geezer (Feb 7, 2017)

yak sao said:


> It's been my experience that you can only get so good at SNT when your only point of reference is SNT. When the student then adds CK to the equation, their SNT will improve further. Same for CK. It can only go so far before it needs a boost from Biu Tse.....and on and on.



Yeah, sometimes you have to see a bit more of the "lbigger picture" to understand the basics better. Advancing  through the material too slowly is just as problematic as advancing to quickly.


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## Danny T (Feb 7, 2017)

DanT said:


> How long does an average student spend on SLT.


SNT? Are you asking about the form or learning what is developed with the study of SNT?
The form itself doesn't take long to learn. What one develops within the attribute development from the study and practicing of the drills from SNT... approx 2 years. This of course entails a lot of drills, punching, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, footwork, balance, leg strengthening, tempering, developing and understand the fundamentals of the WC system.


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## anerlich (Feb 8, 2017)

I learned the empty hand forms in that order (SLT CK BJ).

The dummy is introduced early on, and you have probably learned the majority of the sets before you start Bil Jee.

Weapons are taught in a seminar format outside the normal class structure, but the seminars are open to students of any level.


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## KPM (Feb 8, 2017)

yak sao said:


> It's been my experience that you can only get so good at SNT when your only point of reference is SNT. When the student then adds CK to the equation, their SNT will improve further. Same for CK. It can only go so far before it needs a boost from Biu Tse.....and on and on.



I absolutely agree! The system should be seen as circular, not linear.


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## Danny T (Feb 8, 2017)

KPM said:


> I absolutely agree! The system should be seen as circular, not linear.


Yes, yes, yes.
All parts interrelate but jumping ahead within the learning can be detrimental to one's understanding and skills.


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## wingchun100 (Feb 8, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Yes, yes, yes.
> All parts interrelate but jumping ahead within the learning can be detrimental to one's understanding and skills.


 

I used to go to my first Sifu and ask him, "How can I do this better in Chum Kiu? The dummy form? Biu Jee?"

His answer: "Don't think about improving specific sections of specific forms. Just think about improving your Wing Chun."


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## DanT (Feb 11, 2017)

So at my club, for the typical student, the progression is as follows:

Year 1: SLT
Years 2-3: CK
Years 4: BJ
Year 5-6: MYJ, LDBK
Year 7: BJD

For me tho, I learned BJD after CK at a seminar.


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## wingerjim (Feb 21, 2017)

DanT said:


> Okay so in most Yip Man lineages the order goes:
> 
> Sil Lim Tao
> Chum Kiu
> ...


Yes but I will go into a little more detail. 
Sil Lim Tao first for sure along with single hand chi sau inside, then outside single hand chi sau, along with learning the punch on the wall bag, lop sau and some very simple dummy drills and line drills
Chum Kiu and pak sau and begin the mook jong, two hand chi sau, and some Luk Dim drills
After a student learns the entire mook jong then we teach them Bui Jee
After the student is very proficient with the first 4 along with the wall bag, lop and pak sau they learn the Luk Dim Boon Gwun
Finally the Bat Jam Do is learned last

So the biggest difference is flipping Bui Jee with Mook Yan.


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## wingerjim (Feb 21, 2017)

DanT said:


> We do SLT on one leg once the normal one is pretty good. Goal is for a student to do it for about 3 minutes each leg without falling over.


We do this with one foot lightly touching a wall.


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