# ACL Knee Surgery



## Lisa (Sep 18, 2006)

ACL Knee Surgery is one of the most common injuiries to the knees and as the article below states, at one time was a career ender.  Not so anymore, thanks to advancement in surgical techniques.

I came across this site that has some really good information regarding ACL Knee Surgery and the recovery, etc. and thought I would share. 

ACL Knee Surgery

I thought we could start a discussion and have people share their injuries and recovery and hopefully someday it could help those that are about to have the surgery cope and know what to expect.

Below is a picture of the knee showing the placement of the ACL


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## The Kai (Sep 18, 2006)

Had my left knee done, afetr the injury palged my for like 10 years.   the Dr. took part of the tendon from the knee cap, drilled a hole in the bottom of the thighbone and the top of the shin bone and then connected them.

The post surgery was bad!!!  A lot might have to do with the fact that they took the kneecap tendon (other people have had the same surgery useing a tendon from a cadaver or a rubber piece put in there-I was not comfortable with a "foriegn" object in my body!!).

Expect a year for full recovery-of course I was like 34 years old when I had my done- so age might make a difference

With all that I wish I had donr the operation years earlier, insted of havng the knee bug me


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## Swordlady (Sep 18, 2006)

The Kai said:


> Had my left knee done, afetr the injury palged my for like 10 years.   the Dr. took part of the tendon from the knee cap, drilled a hole in the bottom of the thighbone and the top of the shin bone and then connected them.



If you don't mind me asking, how did you injure your left knee?  Was it from one event, or multiple pulls that accumulated over time?

My right knee has been bothering me for over 1.5 months.  I've been wearing a knee brace at times (wore one tonight to the dojo), taking generic Advil, and putting an ice pack on it after training sessions.  Before it was general soreness.  Now I'm getting twinges of pain right below the knee cap.  I don't recall hyperextending my knee or anything, but I suspect that I pulled one of the knee tendons.  And I'm starting to get concerned about looking at knee surgery further done the line.


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## Jonathan Randall (Sep 18, 2006)

Tigerwoman, are you there? IIRC, you've had the procedure, haven't you? Thoughts?


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## Nomad (Sep 19, 2006)

I am now just over a year post-op on an ACL replacement and meniscal tear surgery (2 for 1!) on my left knee.  

My initial injury occurred when I tripped over my ego one night in class.  We were doing a "show your spirit" type drill that consisted of run, jump, and yell.  After doing this a few times, our instructor made a contest out of it, and on the last jump (in the finals!), I ran, jumped, yelled, hit the ground, my left knee collapsed, rolled forward, came up clutching my knee and yelled a little more.

My doctor, when I went to see him, told me I had just pulled something (yes, as a matter of fact I have switched physicians recently).  After a week or so, I tentatively went back to class, working light, and used a knee brace for extra support.  Around 8 months later, I was at a tournament sparring, took a step forward, had my foot catch "wrong" on the mat somehow, and the knee collapsed a second time (with the brace on).  Finished the match, then "retired" for the rest of the day (fortunately it was one of the last events).  

The next day, my left knee was literally 2-3 times the size of the right, and I was unable to bend it.

It turns out that the initial injury ruptured the ACL, which inherently destabilizes the knee afterwards.  Even with a brace, the reinjury rate on this is something approaching 80%.  The second injury tore the meniscus in the knee.

Last August 26th I had the surgery where they use a piece of your hamstring to make a new ligament, and was back in the dojo, moving very carefully and slowly, about 6 weeks later.  I have gradually worked back to "normal" over the course of the last year (no sparring for 6 months at least!), until now my "bad" knee has very little effect on my performance.  If overworked, it will sometimes ache a little after class, and front kicks with my left leg feel a little strange in comparison with the right, but otherwise stances, kata, sparring, etc. are all good now.

I don't recommend that anyone actively seek this out, but the recovery and stability gained from having the surgery is way way way better than living without an ACL.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 19, 2006)

Swordlady,

Have you sensei very closely watch how you are getting up from Seiza to make sure that your weight is distributed properly.  I was having a hard time awhile ago and one of my instructors recommended a slight modification and now I have absolutely no knee pain.


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## Swordlady (Sep 19, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Swordlady,
> 
> Have you sensei very closely watch how you are getting up from Seiza to make sure that your weight is distributed properly.  I was having a hard time awhile ago and one of my instructors recommended a slight modification and now I have absolutely no knee pain.



Hmm...interesting thing is that I really didn't have any knee problems during my 2 years of YSKR training, even though many of our solo kata start from seiza.  The knee problems started a couple months after I began my Aikido training in June.  A couple of my fellow Aikidoka think it may be from improper knee placement during _tenkan_, or from banging my knee into the mat while doing backward rolls.  The latter doesn't make much sense, since the mat is pretty well-padded, and the pain is right below the kneecap (it's tender right now, even though I didn't train tonight).  The knee doesn't hurt during most techniques.  But it did start hurting a LOT during this one technique, where I got on one knee to execute a throw, and stood up again quickly.  And it was killing me after about an hour of kneeling techniques during my Saturday afternoon YSKR class.

I am going to train at my YSKR sensei's Aikido dojo this Saturday for a couple hours.  I'll ask him to keep an eye on my stance, and see if I'm doing something totally off.

I am most likely going to pay my doctor a visit soon.  I just hope she doesn't recommend me to stop training - even though I would probably not comply with that recommendation anyway.


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## shesulsa (Sep 20, 2006)

My ACL was completely severed from landing from a jump while practicing Hyung and having my double-socked foot slide on the mat.  The joint scissored, displaced and replaced itself all in about half a second.  Ew.

I had a midline incision and patellar tendon donor replacement - so they did the same thing to my knee as Kai had done.  

Research (sorry, don't have the quote, don't have the time to find it) has shown that bone heals to bone better than ligament heals to bone.  So, they took a bone chip from my patella which had patellar tendon inserted, removed that section of tendon down to the tibial head, took the ensuing bone chip from the tibia.  This was the donor replacement.  Then new holes were drilled in my femur and tibia and the donor implanted.  The bone chips were screwed in place with titanium screws ... so you could rightly say that I'm screwed! 

I elected for the surgery and rehab program which would give me the 'closest to original' and 'most stable and permanent' results.  This gave me a 15-18 month recovery period.  I did it gladly.  I'm VERY happy with the stability of my leg now (though my friend who had the same surgery in Africa has a MUCH smaller scar).

I did prehabilitate my knee for some time before the surgery and limited myself quite a bit.  Having that knee collapse several times was quite discomforting to say the least.


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## BlackCatBonz (Sep 20, 2006)

Does the surface over your kneecap hurt as well, or is the pain deep inside the joint?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 20, 2006)

Swordlady,

It is probably from your aikido training then.  If you are doing various ukemi and rolls particularly your frontroll or backroll your alignment of knee/heel may be off after you come out of the roll and as you are standing up this can cause pain or tenderness.  It is almost identical in a way to when you are standing up from seiza in iaido.  You need to have proper alignment and then you will not have knee issues.  Without the alignment well, those knees can certainly get tender.  Good luck.


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## The Kai (Sep 20, 2006)

I orinally (theoritically) partially tore the acl when I was  kid playing racketball, bounced off a wall on a jump and landed wrong.

The Coup de grace was being sweep against the joint of the supporting leg as I was kicking a guy in a tourny


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## Shodan (Sep 22, 2006)

Another member of the bad/damaged knee club here.  I completely tore my ACL in half back in 1995.  We had been training hard for our upcoming belt test.....I was training with my friend for 2nd brown.  I was putting a neoprene brace on my knee due to it just feeling sore for no apparent reason.  One day during this time, I went to get up from my seat at college and my knee was locked at a 90 degree angle.....it was the weirdest thing.  Eventually, I was able to straighten it with a loud pop.....and went about my way.  Tested for 2nd brown about 2 weeks after that wearing my usual neoprene brace.  Right in the middle of the test, I went to block a punch, stepped in, heard a loud pop (tell-tale sign of an ACL break) and fell to the floor.....very little stability left in my right knee.  I managed to tighten my knee brace, finish the test (but fell down a few times)- and passed!!

  The next day, I had to show back up for the seminar and belt kick-in and my knee was several times larger than it should have been and it hurt.....didn't really hurt when the incident happened.....that caught up with me later.  I strapped on a friend's old beater of a knee brace and got my kick.....knee shaking like crazy.  During that next week, I went to the Dr. who put me on crutches for 2 weeks thinking it was a sprain or something like that.  In two weeks, she could see that the swelling was there, etc. so she sent me in for an MRI which confirmed a total tear of the ACL.  I had surgery a few weeks later and it took me a year to really get back to training seriously again.  They took out the middle third of my patellar tendon with a bone chip on either end and used it to replace the damaged ACL.  I got the titanium screws too!!  I started back with swimming pool exercises, stationery bike and knee bends......but the main thing to go was my balance.  It's still not the same today as it was pre-injury.  Sometimes when I over-work it, it gets really sore- tendonitis is a big thing with this type of injury.  Icing helps.  Low stances really hurt sometimes......and I can predict cooler weather coming.....or rain!!

  The main advice I think I'd give to anyone that has to go thru the surgery, etc. is to take your recovery slow and steady and don't rush back in too quickly to your workouts.

  Good luck everyone!


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## buyu (Oct 26, 2006)

hey what do they do if your tendon is stretched beyond use and its just like you dont have a tendon in there i have a seriously bad knee dislocates mildly all the time but it also dislocates real bad every year maybe twice i di it when i was 16 and im now 27 any info would be appreciated 
thanks


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## Carol (Oct 26, 2006)

buyu said:


> hey what do they do if your tendon is stretched beyond use and its just like you dont have a tendon in there i have a seriously bad knee dislocates mildly all the time but it also dislocates real bad every year maybe twice i di it when i was 16 and im now 27 any info would be appreciated
> thanks


 
See a doctor immediately.  Such a problem can get worse and worse as time goes by and can lead to having a permanent affect on your mobility.  Do not mess around with your health.  See a doctor immediately.


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## shesulsa (Oct 26, 2006)

buyu said:


> hey what do they do if your tendon is stretched beyond use and its just like you dont have a tendon in there i have a seriously bad knee dislocates mildly all the time but it also dislocates real bad every year maybe twice i di it when i was 16 and im now 27 any info would be appreciated
> thanks


Logically, I would think your options would be reducing the tendon (shortening it) and I've never met anyone who had good, long-lasting results with this, or replacing it.

To echo Carol, see a doctor as soon as you can.


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## buyu (Oct 26, 2006)

thanks guys now wont go in blind when i head to the doctor much appreciated


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 26, 2006)

Definately go see that doctor and get checked out.  Good luck and I hope that everything goes well.


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