# English has too many homophones



## PhotonGuy

If you ask me, the English language has too many homophones, words with more than one meaning. If you look up the word "pick," in just about any dictionary for instance, you will find many different meanings and that's just one example. So with so many homophones in English it can make it confusing sometimes. Just one of my gripes about the English language.


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> If you ask me, the English language has too many homophones, words with more than one meaning. If you look up the word "pick," in just about any dictionary for instance, you will find many different meanings and that's just one example. So with so many homophones in English it can make it confusing sometimes. Just one of my gripes about the English language.



Why are you worried, you don't speak English..... .


----------



## Steve

PhotonGuy said:


> If you ask me, the English language has too many homophones, words with more than one meaning. If you look up the word "pick," in just about any dictionary for instance, you will find many different meanings and that's just one example. So with so many homophones in English it can make it confusing sometimes. Just one of my gripes about the English language.


English is a funny language.  There have been so many different languages folded into what is now English that it can get tricky, even if you ignore regional and national variations (American vs Canadian, etc).


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> Why are you worried, you don't speak English..... .


What language do you believe he is using?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Steve said:


> What language do you believe he is using?


He's clearly TYPING english, not speaking it.

He must be mute and doesn't speak any language.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang

English is a funny language. The definition of 

1. shipment - cargo by trucks.
2. cargo - freight of a ship.

Is that funny?


----------



## Xue Sheng

Tez3 said:


> Why are you worried, you don't speak English..... .



Really...well let me say this in plain english...them right thar....well those thar be fightin' words


----------



## Steve

kempodisciple said:


> He's clearly TYPING english, not speaking it.
> 
> He must be mute and doesn't speak any language.


  typing or speaking, I think photonguy and just about everyone else around here does English.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Tez3 said:


> Why are you worried, you don't speak English..... .



Technically not. I speak American. At least that's what they officially call the main language spoken in the USA.


----------



## Steve

PhotonGuy said:


> Technically not. I speak American. At least that's what they officially call the main language spoken in the USA.


Officially, it's English, or maybe even American English.   But some refer to it as American.   I mean, if we are being official.


----------



## Chris Parker

Ha! Too many homophones? Try Japanese... 

真 - true, sincere
新 - new
辛 - pungent, hard
伸 - stretch
申 - report, humbly declare
神 - spirit, deity, god
心 - heart, spirit, mind
身 - body, one's self

All of the above are pronounced, or can be pronounced, "shin"... and this is maybe a quarter of all the possible ways of writing it... probably less... with each being different words entirely...


----------



## yak sao

To confuse the issue even more, _pick,  _
the word the OP used as his example is not a homophone but rather a homograph,  both of which are homonyms.
So a homograph is always a homonym, but a homonym is not always a homograpgh.

Interesting side note, homonym is itself a homomym /homophone.....

ie. Homonym and hominem.

.......just thought I'd throw that out there( their, they're)


----------



## Steve

yak sao said:


> To confuse the issue even more, _pick,  _
> the word the OP used as his example is not a homophone but rather a homograph,  both of which are homonyms.
> So a homograph is always a homonym, but a homonym is not always a homograpgh.
> 
> Interesting side note, homonym is itself a homomym /homophone.....
> 
> ie. Homonym and hominem.
> 
> .......just thought I'd throw that out there( their, they're)


hominem seems like a cheat, given that it's Latin.  

But the real question is, what the heck is a heteronym?


----------



## yak sao

Steve said:


> hominem seems like a cheat, given that it's Latin.



I wouldn't call it cheating...maybe pushing the envelope a bit


----------



## yak sao

Steve said:


> But the real question is, what the heck is a heteronym?



beats me, I have enough trouble with homonym/ homograpgh/ homophone


----------



## Xue Sheng

Chris Parker said:


> Ha! Too many homophones? Try Japanese...
> 
> 真 - true, sincere
> 新 - new
> 辛 - pungent, hard
> 伸 - stretch
> 申 - report, humbly declare
> 神 - spirit, deity, god
> 心 - heart, spirit, mind
> 身 - body, one's self
> 
> All of the above are pronounced, or can be pronounced, "shin"... and this is maybe a quarter of all the possible ways of writing it... probably less... with each being different words entirely...



HA! try Mandarin 


Mandarin

My favorite, which messes up many Chinese speakers when they speak English (they have a habit of using he and she interchangeably)

*Tā*: 他 (He) and 她 (she)

And then there are these

*yóuyú:* 由于 (“because of; due to”) and 鱿鱼 (“squid”)
*chénmò:* 沉默 (“silent; taciturn”) and 沉没 (“to sink”)
*jìyì:* 记忆 (“remember”) and 技艺 (“skill; art”)
*jiāodài:* 交代 or 交待 (“to hand over; to explain; to make clear; et al”) and 胶带 (“tape”)
*yuányīn:* 原因 (“cause; origin; reason”) and 元音 (“vowel”)
*bēijù:* 悲剧 (“tragedy”) and 杯具 (“cups; tragedy, as a euphemism”)
*wángguó:* 王国 (“kingdom”) and 亡国 (“country/kingdom heading for destruction or that has vanished”)
*quánlì:* 权利 (“power; right; privilege”) and 权力 (“power; authority”)
*yìyì:* 意义 (“sense; meaning; significance”) and 异议 (“objection; dissent”), plus 意译 (“meaning-based translation”)
*mílù:* 迷路 (“to get lost”) and 麋鹿 (“Père David’s deer; milu”)
*bǐshì:* 鄙视 (“despise; disdain; look down upon”) and 笔试 (“written examination”)
*lìzi(zǐ):* 例子 (“example”) and 粒子 (“grain; particle”)
*shǒushì:* 手势 (“gesture; signal”) and 首饰 (“jewellery”), plus 守势 (“defensive position”)
*gōngshì:* 公式 (“formula”) and 攻势 (“military offensive”)
*xiāngjiāo:* 香蕉 (“banana”) and 相交 (“to cross over; to intersect; to make friends”)
*xíngli(lǐ):* 行李 (“luggage”) and 行礼 (“to salute”)
*lìhai(hài):* 厉害 (“ferocious; awesome; et al”) and 利害 (“pros and cons”)
*dǔzhù:* 堵住 (“to block up”) and 赌注 (“stake (in a gamble)”)
*qǐngkè:* 请客 (“to entertain guests”) and 顷刻 (“instantly”)
*zhìfú*: 制服 (“to subdue; to check; uniform; et al”) and 制伏 (“to overpower; to control; et al”)
*pípa:* 枇杷 (“loquat”) and 琵琶 (“pipa, the Chinese lute”)
*róngyì:* 容易 (“easy”) and 溶液 (“solution, in chemistry” – this homophone exists in Taiwan only, in mainland China it is pronounced róngyè)
*shèngshì:* 盛世 (“prosperous period”) and 盛事 (“grand occasion”)
*bàofù:* 报复 (“revenge”) and 抱负 (“aspiration; ambition”)
*jùbiàn:* 巨变 (“massive changes”) and 剧变 (“fast change”)
*xīnsuān:* 心酸 (“sad”) and 辛酸 (“spicy and sour” – can also be used as a metaphor for sadness)
*pǐnwèi:* 品味 (“to sample; to taste”) and 品位 (“rank; grade; aesthetic taste”)
*zhēnchá:* 侦查 (“to detect; to investigate”) and 侦察 (“to investigate a crime; to scout; et al”)
*guǎnzhì:* 管制 (“to control; to supervise”) and 管治 (“to govern”)
*yǐnqíng:* 隐情 (“facts one wishes to keep secret; ulterior motive”) and 引擎 (“engine”)
*guòdù:* 过度 (“excessive”) and 过渡 (“to cross over; et al”)
*mùdì:* 目的 (“goal”) and 墓地 (“graveyard; burial ground; cemetery”)

And don't get me started on words that sound the same to the typical western ear but are vastly different based on tone.

Horse > 马 Mǎ
Hemp > 麻 Má
Scold > 骂 Mà


----------



## frank raud

PhotonGuy said:


> If you ask me, the English language has too many homophones, words with more than one meaning. If you look up the word "pick," in just about any dictionary for instance, you will find many different meanings and that's just one example. So with so many homophones in English it can make it confusing sometimes. Just one of my gripes about the English language.


Is there another language you speak that doesn't have words with multiple meanings?


----------



## Steve

frank raud said:


> Is there another language you speak that doesn't have words with multiple meanings?


The language of love?


----------



## Xue Sheng

English has NOTHING on Chinese (Mandarin) when it comes to homophones

I just came across this on the web and I can't believe I forgot this one. My wife did this one for me once to prove a point about tones -

"Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" aka "Shī Shì shí shī shǐ"

" 施氏食獅史"
石室詩士施氏，嗜獅，誓食十獅。
氏時時適市視獅。
十時，適十獅適市。
是時，適施氏適市。
氏視是十獅，恃矢勢，使是十獅逝世。
氏拾是十獅屍，適石室。
石室濕，氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭，氏始試食是十獅。
食時，始識是十獅屍，實十石獅屍。
試釋是事。

the pinyin

" Shī Shì shí shī shǐ"
Shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
Shì shíshí shì shì shì shī.
Shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
Shì shí, shì Shī Shì shì shì.
Shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì, shǐ shì shí shī shìshì.
Shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shíshì.
Shíshì shī, Shì shǐ shì shì shíshì.
Shíshì shì, Shì shǐ shì shí shì shí shī.
Shí shí, shǐ shí shì shí shī shī, shí shí shí shī shī.
Shì shì shì shì.

translation: 

"Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den"
In a stone den was a poet called _Shi_, who was a lion addict, and had resolved to eat ten lions.
He often went to the market to look for lions.
At ten o'clock, ten lions had just arrived at the market.
At that time, Shi had just arrived at the market.
He saw those ten lions, and using his trusty arrows, caused the ten lions to die.
He brought the corpses of the ten lions to the stone den.
The stone den was damp.
He asked his servants to wipe it.
After the stone den was wiped, he tried to eat those ten lions.
When he ate, he realized that these ten lions were in fact ten stone lion corpses.
Try to explain this matter.


----------



## pgsmith

Steve said:


> The language of love?



  Oh no! That has even MORE multiple meanings!


----------



## kuniggety

มั้ย   มัย   มาย  มัย มั้ย มาย ม่าย ไม่ ไม้ ไม้ ไม๊ ไมค์

ไมล์ หมาย หม้าย   ใหม่ ไหม ไหม ไหม ไหม้

Thai is a tonal language like Mandarin...having 5 tones too (although its tones are a little different). Above is 20 different ways to write "mai" with 20 different meanings.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Get a Cantonese speaker on here and he/she will likely blow us all out of the water....Cantonese has 8 tones


----------



## PhotonGuy

yak sao said:


> To confuse the issue even more, _pick,  _
> the word the OP used as his example is not a homophone but rather a homograph,  both of which are homonyms.
> So a homograph is always a homonym, but a homonym is not always a homograpgh.
> 
> Interesting side note, homonym is itself a homomym /homophone.....
> 
> ie. Homonym and hominem.
> 
> .......just thought I'd throw that out there( their, they're)



A homophone is a word that has multiple meanings and that is pronounced the same way regardless of the meaning and it might or might not be spelled the same way when being used to refer to different meanings. 

A homograph is a word that has multiple meanings and it is spelled the same way regardless of the meaning and it might or might not be pronounced the same way.

So therefore the word "pick" is both a homophone and a homograph. It is pronounced the same way no matter how it is used and it is spelled the same way no matter how it is used.

The word "straight" as in straight line or "strait" as in the waterway is a homophone, although it is spelled differently it is pronounced the same so it meets the requirements to be a homophone. 

The word "lead" as in the metal or "lead" as in what a leader does is a homograph. Although it is pronounced differently it is spelled the same so it meets the requirements to be a homophone.

A homonym can be defined as a word that is spelled the same and pronounced the same and has multiple meanings. Another words, a word that meets the requirements to be both a homophone and a homograph would be a homonym. So the word "pick" would be an example of a homonym.


----------



## PhotonGuy

frank raud said:


> Is there another language you speak that doesn't have words with multiple meanings?



Well I've studied some German but I didn't get far enough to learn that many words with multiple meanings.


----------



## KangTsai

You heard of Mandarin?


----------



## Steve

They have terrific oranges.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Steve said:


> They have terrific oranges.



That's gānjú to you


----------



## Gerry Seymour

PhotonGuy said:


> Well I've studied some German but I didn't get far enough to learn that many words with multiple meanings.


Every language I have any knowledge of has homophones, homonyms, and homographs. My skills are not what they once were, but I can read a bit in three romance languages and German. I can read literature and speak a bit in French. I know scattered words in Russian (mostly food-related) and Japanese (mostly MA-related). Even with that thin knowledge of them, I have dealt with homophones in all of them (frankly, to me, Russian sounds like a language of recycled sounds, so I detect more homophones than exist there).


----------



## jks9199

I came across a story once about a US ambassador to China who tried to learn a simple phrase to complement his counterparts daughter.  Unfortunately, he was a bit tone deaf -- and rather than saying "Your daughter is very pretty" managed to say "Your daughter is very green."  Can't vouch for the truth of it... but still funny.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any single word homophones in Spanish -- but that's probably my limited vocabulary...


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jks9199 said:


> I came across a story once about a US ambassador to China who tried to learn a simple phrase to complement his counterparts daughter.  Unfortunately, he was a bit tone deaf -- and rather than saying "Your daughter is very pretty" managed to say "Your daughter is very green."  Can't vouch for the truth of it... but still funny.
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can't think of any single word homophones in Spanish -- but that's probably my limited vocabulary...


Amo (conjugation of "to love" - first person singular, I think) and amo (owner/master, IIRC) comes to mind.

A bunch at 51 Spanish Words That Sound Exactly Like Other Spanish Words.


----------



## Buka

Xue Sheng said:


> That's gānjú to you



I've always like ganja.

According to this piece, It took Peter Gilliver, lexicographer for the Oxford English Dictionary, nine months of study to conclude that the word "run" has 645 meanings.

‘Run,’ a Verb for Our Frantic Times

He would have made a good Martial Artist. (he's nuts) (probably correct, but still nuts)


----------



## Xue Sheng

Buka said:


> I've always like ganja.



Den you live on da wrong island mon


----------



## Buka

Xue Sheng said:


> Den you live on da wrong island mon



Au contraire, mon ami.


----------



## ShortBridge

Maybe you're all just homophonebic.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

ShortBridge said:


> Maybe you're all just homophonebic.


Somebody had to say it, ShortBridge.


----------



## PhotonGuy

jks9199 said:


> I came across a story once about a US ambassador to China who tried to learn a simple phrase to complement his counterparts daughter.  Unfortunately, he was a bit tone deaf -- and rather than saying "Your daughter is very pretty" managed to say "Your daughter is very green."  Can't vouch for the truth of it... but still funny.
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can't think of any single word homophones in Spanish -- but that's probably my limited vocabulary...



Well from what I know the Chinese language is very musical. The meaning if the words greatly depends on the tone you say them in. That can sometimes even be true with the English language.


----------



## Marian Ambers

These homophones are a lot confusing too.  I agree, there are too many  actually.


----------



## Xue Sheng

PhotonGuy said:


> Well from what I know the Chinese language is very musical. The meaning if the words greatly depends on the tone you say them in. That can sometimes even be true with the English language.



English tones generally convey emotion, Chinese tones change the word meaning. And there are multiple dialects of Chinese that cannot understand each others language, but they all have tones that change word meaning. Some more than others, example; Mandarin has 4 (5 if you count neutral tone) while Cantonese has at least 8 tones. However the writing systems are the same from dialect to dialect, they just pronounce the characters they see differently.

Thank you in written Chinese is
谢谢
In Mandarin it is pronounced 
Xièxiè
In Cantonese it is pronounced 
dòjeh


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Xue Sheng said:


> English tones generally convey emotion, Chinese tones change the word meaning. And there are multiple dialects of Chinese that cannot understand each others language, but they all have tones that change word meaning. Some more than others, example; Mandarin has 4 (5 if you count neutral tone) while Cantonese has at least 8 tones. However the writing systems are the same from dialect to dialect, they just pronounce the characters they see differently.
> 
> Thank you in written Chinese is
> 谢谢
> In Mandarin it is pronounced
> Xièxiè
> In Cantonese it is pronounced
> dòjeh


Somehow, it never occurred to me before that the various dialects actually used the same characters. That must make it easier when having to communicate between dialects, since at least the written (drawn) language is much the same (I assume there are some dialectical differences even there, perhaps in current meaning).


----------



## Xue Sheng

gpseymour said:


> Somehow, it never occurred to me before that the various dialects actually used the same characters. That must make it easier when having to communicate between dialects, since at least the written (drawn) language is much the same (I assume there are some dialectical differences even there, perhaps in current meaning).



Cantonese speakers use more characters than Mandarin speakers, they can use the same dictionary and they could still communicate by writing these days. However in the past, not so much, since not everybody was literate.

However, to be honest, I am not sure if a person from Beijing could fully understand a Hong Kong news paper do to the number of characters needed for Cantonese. I cannot be 100% positive but a professor in college (Native Cantonese) said that to be considered literate in Mandarin you needed to know (if my memory is correct) around 2000 or 3000 characters. To be considered literate in Cantonese it was around 4000 characters. or the numbers could be Mandarin 4000 and Cantonese 6000, I just can't remember the exact words. All I am certain of is there was a 1000 or more character difference. However Mrs Xue (Native Mandarin) disagrees with this.


----------



## oftheherd1

Xue Sheng said:


> HA! try Mandarin
> 
> 
> Mandarin
> 
> My favorite, which messes up many Chinese speakers when they speak English (they have a habit of using he and she interchangeably)
> 
> *Tā*: 他 (He) and 她 (she)
> 
> And then there are these
> 
> *yóuyú:* 由于 (“because of; due to”) and 鱿鱼 (“squid”)
> *chénmò:* 沉默 (“silent; taciturn”) and 沉没 (“to sink”)
> *jìyì:* 记忆 (“remember”) and 技艺 (“skill; art”)
> *jiāodài:* 交代 or 交待 (“to hand over; to explain; to make clear; et al”) and 胶带 (“tape”)
> *yuányīn:* 原因 (“cause; origin; reason”) and 元音 (“vowel”)
> *bēijù:* 悲剧 (“tragedy”) and 杯具 (“cups; tragedy, as a euphemism”)
> *wángguó:* 王国 (“kingdom”) and 亡国 (“country/kingdom heading for destruction or that has vanished”)
> *quánlì:* 权利 (“power; right; privilege”) and 权力 (“power; authority”)
> *yìyì:* 意义 (“sense; meaning; significance”) and 异议 (“objection; dissent”), plus 意译 (“meaning-based translation”)
> *mílù:* 迷路 (“to get lost”) and 麋鹿 (“Père David’s deer; milu”)
> *bǐshì:* 鄙视 (“despise; disdain; look down upon”) and 笔试 (“written examination”)
> *lìzi(zǐ):* 例子 (“example”) and 粒子 (“grain; particle”)
> *shǒushì:* 手势 (“gesture; signal”) and 首饰 (“jewellery”), plus 守势 (“defensive position”)
> *gōngshì:* 公式 (“formula”) and 攻势 (“military offensive”)
> *xiāngjiāo:* 香蕉 (“banana”) and 相交 (“to cross over; to intersect; to make friends”)
> *xíngli(lǐ):* 行李 (“luggage”) and 行礼 (“to salute”)
> *lìhai(hài):* 厉害 (“ferocious; awesome; et al”) and 利害 (“pros and cons”)
> *dǔzhù:* 堵住 (“to block up”) and 赌注 (“stake (in a gamble)”)
> *qǐngkè:* 请客 (“to entertain guests”) and 顷刻 (“instantly”)
> *zhìfú*: 制服 (“to subdue; to check; uniform; et al”) and 制伏 (“to overpower; to control; et al”)
> *pípa:* 枇杷 (“loquat”) and 琵琶 (“pipa, the Chinese lute”)
> *róngyì:* 容易 (“easy”) and 溶液 (“solution, in chemistry” – this homophone exists in Taiwan only, in mainland China it is pronounced róngyè)
> *shèngshì:* 盛世 (“prosperous period”) and 盛事 (“grand occasion”)
> *bàofù:* 报复 (“revenge”) and 抱负 (“aspiration; ambition”)
> *jùbiàn:* 巨变 (“massive changes”) and 剧变 (“fast change”)
> *xīnsuān:* 心酸 (“sad”) and 辛酸 (“spicy and sour” – can also be used as a metaphor for sadness)
> *pǐnwèi:* 品味 (“to sample; to taste”) and 品位 (“rank; grade; aesthetic taste”)
> *zhēnchá:* 侦查 (“to detect; to investigate”) and 侦察 (“to investigate a crime; to scout; et al”)
> *guǎnzhì:* 管制 (“to control; to supervise”) and 管治 (“to govern”)
> *yǐnqíng:* 隐情 (“facts one wishes to keep secret; ulterior motive”) and 引擎 (“engine”)
> *guòdù:* 过度 (“excessive”) and 过渡 (“to cross over; et al”)
> *mùdì:* 目的 (“goal”) and 墓地 (“graveyard; burial ground; cemetery”)
> 
> And don't get me started on words that sound the same to the typical western ear but are vastly different based on tone.
> 
> Horse > 马 Mǎ
> Hemp > 麻 Má
> Scold > 骂 Mà



You can add two more in Vietnamese; ma - ghost, ma - mother.

I think I told the story before about when I was in Vietnam, I met an attractive but slightly overweight young lady who was very personable, and interested in speaking Vietnamese with me since so few GIs did.  We had talked for a bit switching back and forth when she said something and I replied affirmatively in English, "Yes M'am."  She became very angry. 

I asked her why and she said "You know what you said!"  I told her I did but why was she angry.  That went back and forth a couple of times and she let me know I wasn't so skinny either (which I wasn't, but I didn't understand what that had to do with our conversation).  Anyway, our conversations were over.  I walked away puzzled.  I had to wait to get back to my room and consult my largest cross dictionary to find out that m'am with the (unintentional) tone I had used, meant among other things, fat.  If she is still alive and remembers me and that conversation, I am sure she considers me the worst Ugly American."  

Believe me, in tonal languages, tones are very important, and in Vietnamese, vowels too (up to 4 vowel diphthongs).  I found it difficult to mispronounce a Vietnamese word.  You either said another word or gibberish.  The latter being preferable.


----------



## Jenna

oftheherd1 said:


> You can add two more in Vietnamese; ma - ghost, ma - mother.
> 
> I think I told the story before about when I was in Vietnam, I met an attractive but slightly overweight young lady who was very personable, and interested in speaking Vietnamese with me since so few GIs did.  We had talked for a bit switching back and forth when she said something and I replied affirmatively in English, "Yes M'am."  She became very angry.
> 
> I asked her why and she said "You know what you said!"  I told her I did but why was she angry.  That went back and forth a couple of times and she let me know I wasn't so skinny either (which I wasn't, but I didn't understand what that had to do with our conversation).  Anyway, our conversations were over.  I walked away puzzled.  I had to wait to get back to my room and consult my largest cross dictionary to find out that m'am with the (unintentional) tone I had used, meant among other things, fat.  If she is still alive and remembers me and that conversation, I am sure she considers me the worst Ugly American."
> 
> Believe me, in tonal languages, tones are very important, and in Vietnamese, vowels too (up to 4 vowel diphthongs).  I found it difficult to mispronounce a Vietnamese word.  You either said another word or gibberish.  The latter being preferable.


Is a poignant depiction <3 shows like even from the smallest act, either intended or unintended can our life change in the biggest ways.. can you regret anything though? when there is never any such thing as a right path.. just the path we are on.. Wishes x


----------



## JP3

PhotonGuy said:


> Technically not. I speak American. At least that's what they officially call the main language spoken in the USA.


But you misspelled it. Remember, we drop the iniial "A" so it is really what we speak.

     Merican.


----------



## kuniggety

JP3 said:


> But you misspelled it. Remember, we drop the iniial "A" so it is really what we speak.
> 
> Merican.



You don't have enough red, white, and blue in there. It's Murikan.


----------



## JP3

I didn't know how to properly convey the pronounciation, ya got me.


----------



## Xue Sheng

I cannot tell you how many times I have read the title of the post wrong, because it is a lot of times


----------



## PhotonGuy

A big problem with homophones is it also gives people the opportunity to troll, as has happened in this forum and in other forums.


----------



## now disabled

PhotonGuy said:


> A big problem with homophones is it also gives people the opportunity to troll, as has happened in this forum and in other forums.




Sir even within the different countries over in the Uk a word can mean something different lol.......and that before any loan words are stolen from the native languages over here used in English to mean one thing where as they might mean something else depending on context and even spelling as in my own language pronunciation can mean a different word lol and that before ya get to writing it down lol an example is BATA ... spelt and said that way (short first vowel) it means (or can depending on dialect) stick but put a grav accent over the first vowel and it then becomes a boat lol (the grav lengthens the vowel ...there used to be acute accents but they dropped then a while back lol and the other thing is my native language only has 18 letters in the alphabet )


----------



## JR 137

I’m a big fan of a word that sounds identical in different languages, yet have COMPLETELY different meanings.

English - boots: type of shoe
Armenian - boots: impolite slang for vagina

Growing up speaking both languages in my home, and with a grandmother who didn’t understand English very well, that word in particular got some interesting responses to say the least.


----------



## hoshin1600

Xue Sheng said:


> I cannot tell you how many times I have read the title of the post wrong, because it is a lot of times


 like someone could be a little homophonic.


----------



## hoshin1600

Homophonic:
having or showing a dislike of or a prejudice against words that have the same pronunciation but different  meanings origins or spellings.


----------



## Steve

PhotonGuy said:


> A big problem with homophones is it also gives people the opportunity to troll, as has happened in this forum and in other forums.


In what way do you mean?  Can you point to some examples?  I think some people troll others, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use homophones to do it. 



now disabled said:


> Sir even within the different countries over in the Uk a word can mean something different lol.......and that before any loan words are stolen from the native languages over here used in English to mean one thing where as they might mean something else depending on context and even spelling as in my own language pronunciation can mean a different word lol and that before ya get to writing it down lol an example is BATA ... spelt and said that way (short first vowel) it means (or can depending on dialect) stick but put a grav accent over the first vowel and it then becomes a boat lol (the grav lengthens the vowel ...there used to be acute accents but they dropped then a while back lol and the other thing is my native language only has 18 letters in the alphabet )


Jesus, man.  This entire post of yours is one sentence.  Punctuation is your friend.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> In what way do you mean?  Can you point to some examples?  I think some people troll others, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use homophones to do it.
> 
> Jesus, man.  This entire post of yours is one sentence.  Punctuation is your friend.




Sorry teach I shall endeavour to use the correct punctuation in future


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Sorry teach I shall endeavour to use the correct punctuation in future


Lol.   Just give me a period every few lines, and a comma here and there. 

Next time @Tez3 mentions Queen's English I'm pointing her to you!


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> Lol.   Just give me a period every few lines, and a comma here and there.
> 
> Next time @Tez3 mentions Queen's English I'm pointing her to you!




Ah but I do not speak nor write the Queens English. I learned English at school


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Ah but I do not speak nor write the Queens English. I learned English at school


Okay.  @Tez3 is off the hook, then.  I'm sure she will be very relieved to learn that you are not sullying the reputation of the British Empire with your lackadaisical grammar.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> Okay.  @Tez3 is off the hook, then.  I'm sure she will be very relieved to learn that you are not sullying the reputation of the British Empire with your lackadaisical grammar.




Ummmm one should bear in mind that the Empire no longer exists. That is an all to distant memory and I was not born when we were still an empire and I doubt @Tez3 was either as in effect those days ended before the lights went out all over Europe


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Ummmm one should bear in mind that the Empire no longer exists. That is an all to distant memory and I was not born when we were still an empire and I doubt @Tez3 was either as in effect those days ended before the lights went out all over Europe


If there were no empire, then how could Kiera Knightley recently be appointed Officer of the British Empire?  It's just a very small empire, but we aren't here to judge.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> If there were no empire, then how could Kiera Knightley recently be appointed Officer of the British Empire?  It's just a very small empire, but we aren't here to judge.




Oh they have kept the words in some of the orders and honours. 
The Empire was anything but small my friend anything but and as such we still do have a seat at the top table.
Oh and the OBE is not the only honour that contains the "empire" lol, there are others to lol and ones that go even further back in what they allude to lol but lets not get into a history lesson


----------



## Buka

Out here, pidgin is spoken a lot. It's local slang. 

Ho, look braddah on dat wave. He geev’um brah. Let's go see dat tita, she his sistah, not her, da one with the hammajang nose, she got some ono pakalolo and dakine grindz around, we have a kanak attack, it's pau hana, bruh!

Wassamattah you? Cannah talk da kine?


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> If there were no empire, then how could Kiera Knightley recently be appointed Officer of the British Empire?  It's just a very small empire, but we aren't here to judge.




Actually the title of the award is  Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire.  it's an order of chivalry award for outstanding effort in arts, sciences, charity work and public service outside of the Civil Service.


----------



## now disabled

Tez3 said:


> Actually the title of the award is  Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire.  it's an order of chivalry award for outstanding effort in arts, sciences, charity work and public service outside of the Civil Service.




Oh @Tez3, you do realize now that our entire honour system is gonna have to be explained (and including the order in which they come ). This could take a while lol. 

Steve I punctuated lol


----------



## jobo

now disabled said:


> Ummmm one should bear in mind that the Empire no longer exists. That is an all to distant memory and I was not born when we were still an empire and I doubt @Tez3 was either as in effect those days ended before the lights went out all over Europe


Probebly not, it seems to have ended in 1947 when the lights had mostly returned to Europe


----------



## jobo

Steve said:


> If there were no empire, then how could Kiera Knightley recently be appointed Officer of the British Empire?  It's just a very small empire, but we aren't here to judge.


The whole empires thing is rather a turn if phrase, we had co!lonies and we had over seas terrorties, but it was possesion of India, that gave rise to us having an empire, or rather queen victoria was crowned emperess of india  and not of anywhere else. which sugfest the rest wasnt considered an empire


----------



## now disabled

jobo said:


> Probebly not, it seems to have ended in 1947 when the lights had mostly returned to Europe




The saying the lights went out all over Europe refers to WWI lol as it was the end of the golden age so to speak and when the empire was still as such. And back then we did have the grand Fleet and we did still rule the waves


----------



## JR 137

now disabled said:


> Steve I punctuated lol



You forgot the comma after “Steve” and a period at the end of the sentence. You’re getting better though.


----------



## now disabled

JR 137 said:


> You forgot the comma after “Steve” and a period at the end of the sentence. You’re getting better though.




Hope your next crap is a hedgehog and it appears sideways lol lol lol


----------



## JR 137

now disabled said:


> Hope your next crap is a hedgehog and it appears sideways lol lol lol


Just got done a few minutes ago. Quite the opposite, actually. It was all mush.


----------



## now disabled

JR 137 said:


> Just got done a few minutes ago. Quite the opposite, actually. It was all mush.




OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH TO much info .........................waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much info lol lol lol


----------



## PhotonGuy

Steve said:


> In what way do you mean?  Can you point to some examples?  I think some people troll others, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use homophones to do it.


Alright, sometime ago on this forum there was a thread about fighting ranges where different fighting ranges were described and people were asked what their favorite fighting range was. Now I am not going to mention any names but somebody made a post on that thread about oven ranges saying that was their favorite range. Oven ranges and fighting ranges are obviously two totally different things but the word "range" can mean either of those things. But when there's a thread about fighting ranges than those are the kinds of ranges that are being discussed and to start talking about oven ranges in such a thread, this is not my call but I would say its trolling.


----------



## JR 137

now disabled said:


> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH TO much info .........................waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much info lol lol lol


I know, but it was the appropriate circumstances.


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Oh @Tez3, you do realize now that our entire honour system is gonna have to be explained (and including the order in which they come ). This could take a while lol.
> 
> Steve I punctuated lol


Your punctuation was like eating a properly seasoned meal.


----------



## Steve

jobo said:


> The whole empires thing is rather a turn if phrase, we had co!lonies and we had over seas terrorties, but it was possesion of India, that gave rise to us having an empire, or rather queen victoria was crowned emperess of india  and not of anywhere else. which sugfest the rest wasnt considered an empire


Jeez, you guys take this stuff seriously.  It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  This is like the British version of "mansplaining."


----------



## Steve

PhotonGuy said:


> Alright, sometime ago on this forum there was a thread about fighting ranges where different fighting ranges were described and people were asked what their favorite fighting range was. Now I am not going to mention any names but somebody made a post on that thread about oven ranges saying that was their favorite range. Oven ranges and fighting ranges are obviously two totally different things but the word "range" can mean either of those things. But when there's a thread about fighting ranges than those are the kinds of ranges that are being discussed and to start talking about oven ranges in such a thread, this is not my call but I would say its trolling.


Ah, I can see what you mean.  I think there's an important difference between trolling and making a joke.  I don't think anyone would mistake an oven range for a fighting range.  Trolling suggests that the person is trying to start an argument or stir the pot.


----------



## jobo

Steve said:


> Jeez, you guys take this stuff seriously.  It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  This is like the British version of "mansplaining."


Its history mate, its like us mixing up the varius american ibvading of sovereign nations,


----------



## jobo

now disabled said:


> The saying the lights went out all over Europe refers to WWI lol as it was the end of the golden age so to speak and when the empire was still as such. And back then we did have the grand Fleet and we did still rule the waves


Yes i know, and if yiur being picky, its lamps, not lights, but anyway yiur claim is the BE finished before the lights( lamps) went out and it didnt ut trundle on to at least 47 and us giving India back  to the indians( and the pakistanies etal.) Plus we still had most of the rest, which took another couple of decades to give back.

In the 1930 s there were serious plans to blockaid New York ( and the whole easten seaboard) and bring those pesky amerian to heel, so we still ruled the waves then, unfotenttly for the civilisation of the usa, the germans got in the way, so thats how it all went wrong for them Americans


----------



## Tez3

PhotonGuy said:


> this is not my call *but I would say its trolling*.



Or you have no sense of humour.


----------



## now disabled

jobo said:


> Yes i know, and if yiur being picky, its lamps, not lights, but anyway yiur claim is the BE finished before the lights( lamps) went out and it didnt ut trundle on to at least 47 and us giving India back  to the indians( and the pakistanies etal.) Plus we still had most of the rest, which took another couple of decades to give back.
> 
> In the 1930 s there were serious plans to blockaid New York ( and the whole easten seaboard) and bring those pesky amerian to heel, so we still ruled the waves then, unfotenttly for the civilisation of the usa, the germans got in the way, so thats how it all went wrong for them Americans




Yes you are right as regards lamps, I would say tho that the Empire was not the Empire after the first war as such. Yes it still existed but not like it did pre 1914. 

Yeah it took a while to hand it all back however look what happened to some of the countries when we did lol.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> Jeez, you guys take this stuff seriously.  It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  This is like the British version of "mansplaining."




Yeah we do take it seriously as we do have a kinda long history and it seems so many want to grab at it lol.....Also it could be said that there is not very much that we haven't tried at one time or another, we even tried being a republic and decided that wasn't a good idea lol, much better to have a person at the top that will always be there no matter what politicians try and that the people can rally to and behind when we in the **** lol


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> Jeez, you guys take this stuff seriously.  It was a tongue-in-cheek comment.  This is like the British version of "mansplaining."




You don't understand British humour. British Humour - Six Years and I Still Don't Get It


----------



## Steve

jobo said:


> Its history mate, its like us mixing up the varius american ibvading of sovereign nations,


If there's one thing we know about Brits, it's that you guys don't appreciate a dry sense of humor.


----------



## now disabled

jobo said:


> Yes i know, and if yiur being picky, its lamps, not lights, but anyway yiur claim is the BE finished before the lights( lamps) went out and it didnt ut trundle on to at least 47 and us giving India back  to the indians( and the pakistanies etal.) Plus we still had most of the rest, which took another couple of decades to give back.
> 
> In the 1930 s there were serious plans to blockaid New York ( and the whole easten seaboard) and bring those pesky amerian to heel, so we still ruled the waves then, unfotenttly for the civilisation of the usa, the germans got in the way, so thats how it all went wrong for them Americans




Bro yes our Navy was still a Navy in WWII but it did not compare to the might of the Grand Fleet. Jellico was the last man to properly cross the T in battle, Ok we can argue if he won Jutland or not but one thing he did do was after that battle Kaiser Bills fleet never came out to play again. Even Churchill said he (Jellico ) was the only man that could have lost WWI in one battle and he didn't !!!

The Grand Fleet now that was a fleet and one to be proud off (despite what Beatty did ...the hot headed btard, had he dne as he was told -and not thought he was Nelson - then he wouldn't have had to say the famous words there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today)


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> You don't understand British humour. British Humour - Six Years and I Still Don't Get It


I just don't think you guys get irony or sarcasm.  It's not your fault.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> If there's one thing we know about Brits, it's that you guys don't appreciate a dry sense of humor.




Oh no we do it just our dry humour is way more subtle, however when outsiders have a go at anything connected to our Royals we do tend to get a bit miffed, as they are ours and if anyone is gonna have a go then we will ourselves lol 

I can remember when a certain first lady dared put her hand on the Queen lol that nearly caused apoplexy here as jeez in years gone by that would have meant War lol, She obviously didn't listen to what she was told ............no one and I mean no one does that period


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Oh no we do it just our dry humour is way more subtle, however when outsiders have a go at anything connected to our Royals we do tend to get a bit miffed, as they are ours and if anyone is gonna have a go then we will ourselves lol
> 
> I can remember when a certain first lady dared put her hand on the Queen lol that nearly caused apoplexy here as jeez in years gone by that would have meant War lol, She obviously didn't listen to what she was told ............no one and I mean no one does that period


LOL.  You guys are cracking me up.  I should write an article for the huffpost..co.uk about what happens when Brits don't get the joke.

And, being quite serious, who do you believe had a go at your Royals?  If you think I have, I sincerely apologize.  I am having a go at you guys, because you literally crack me up when you start "britsplaining" british humor after not getting a joke.   Talk about irony.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> LOL.  You guys are cracking me up.  I should write an article for the huffpost..co.uk about what happens when Brits don't get the joke.
> 
> And, being quite serious, who do you believe had a go at your Royals?  If you think I have, I sincerely apologize.  I am having a go at you guys, because you literally crack me up when you start "britsplaining" british humor after not getting a joke.   Talk about irony.


Waiting for someone to post a response to me saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I got the joke.  I just didn't think it was funny."


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> LOL.  You guys are cracking me up.  I should write an article for the huffpost..co.uk about what happens when Brits don't get the joke.
> 
> And, being quite serious, who do you believe had a go at your Royals?  If you think I have, I sincerely apologize.  I am having a go at you guys, because you literally crack me up when you start "britsplaining" british humor after not getting a joke.   Talk about irony.




I think we only pointed out what the OBE stood for the other bits were between our selves lol. 

One thing that should be noted is us Brits you say lol do tend to stand our ground ............................ask the last two jumped up little Corporals who tested us on that lol


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> I think we only pointed out what the OBE stood for the other bits were between our selves lol.
> 
> One thing that should be noted is us Brits you say lol do tend to stand our ground ............................ask the last two jumped up little Corporals who tested us on that lol


That is true.  Brits are very stubborn.  Not something we're familiar with in America.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> That is true.  Brits are very stubborn.  Not something we're familiar with in America.




Oh lol ...Our  stubbornness is somewhat different lol as is our ways of getting things done lol. 

As a matter of interest have you ever heard of the term Gunboat diplomacy ?


----------



## jobo

now disabled said:


> Bro yes our Navy was still a Navy in WWII but it did not compare to the might of the Grand Fleet. Jellico was the last man to properly cross the T in battle, Ok we can argue if he won Jutland or not but one thing he did do was after that battle Kaiser Bills fleet never came out to play again. Even Churchill said he (Jellico ) was the only man that could have lost WWI in one battle and he didn't !!!
> 
> The Grand Fleet now that was a fleet and one to be proud off (despite what Beatty did ...the hot headed btard, had he dne as he was told -and not thought he was Nelson - then he wouldn't have had to say the famous words there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today)


We were slightly hampered by the league if nations restriction on tonnage and armour, which being british we adhered to whilst every body else did not, however at least at the start of ww2 we had the most powerfull navy in the world.


----------



## now disabled

jobo said:


> We were slightly hampered by the league if nations restriction on tonnage and armour, which being british we adhered to whilst every body else did not, however at least at the start of ww2 we had the most powerfull navy in the world.




Not sure I agree with the WWII bit ...but we def had the best sailors and a determination. I still thin the Grand Fleet was a more impressive sight and battle formation


----------



## jobo

now disabled said:


> Not sure I agree with the WWII bit ...but we def had the best sailors and a determination. I still thin the Grand Fleet was a more impressive sight and battle formation


Do you think i just make stuff up?

Naval history of World War II - Wikipedia

The very first para says at the begining of ww2 we had the Strongest navy in the world


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> Waiting for someone to post a response to me saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I got the joke.  I just didn't think it was funny."




It's Yom Kippur, nothing is funny.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> It's Yom Kippur, nothing is funny.


timing is everything.


----------



## Buka

I like British humor.




 

But I always was a religious guy.


----------



## pdg

Buka said:


> I like British humor.



Point of note, if it's British it's actually humour 



Buka said:


> But I always was a religious guy.



Ah, but religious about what?


----------



## pdg

Steve said:


> I just don't think you guys get irony or sarcasm.  It's not your fault.



Almost every time I make a sarcastic comment on a forum someone (usually someone from Uhmerica, sponsored by Carl's junior) takes it seriously and personally...

I don't mind though, explaining how it was sarcastic is usually funnier.


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> Almost every time I make a sarcastic comment on a forum someone (usually someone from Uhmerica, sponsored by Carl's junior) takes it seriously and personally...
> 
> I don't mind though, explaining how it was sarcastic is usually funnier.


America is a big place.  Geographically/demographically, Britain is smaller than Alabama.  The entire UK is smaller than Oregon.  Saying Americans as a whole don't appreciate sarcasm or irony is like saying that Europeans don't appreciate it, forgetting you are part of Europe.  

I believe it can be said truly that more Americans than Brits appreciate sarcastic.  And more Americans than Germans don't appreciate sarcasm.  We just have that many different cultures in America.  And, an American accent, which is often difficult for Brits to understand.


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> forgetting you are part of Europe.



Alas and alack not for much longer.



Steve said:


> timing is everything.



Yom Kippur is the only serious day of the year. It's also a very beautiful one.


It's not that Americans don't 'get' sarcasm, it's that they use it differently from Brits, Aussie etc al.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-non-Americans-think-Americans-dont-understand-sarcasm-and-irony


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> Alas and alack not for much longer.
> 
> 
> 
> Yom Kippur is the only serious day of the year. It's also a very beautiful one.
> 
> 
> It's not that Americans don't 'get' sarcasm, it's that they use it differently from Brits, Aussie etc al.
> https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-non-Americans-think-Americans-dont-understand-sarcasm-and-irony


I concede.  No one understands American sarcasm better than a Brit.  You win.


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> I concede.  No one understands American sarcasm better than a Brit.  You win.




An American wrote that article not a Brit.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> An American wrote that article not a Brit.


You’re American?  I had no idea.   And we all know that if it’s written in quora, it’s going to be true.

It does hurt a little that you take the word of that American stranger and not this one.   What’s he got that I don’t?  I can show you my American bona fides.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Tez3 said:


> Or you have no sense of humour.


Not necessarily. I just believe that for making jokes there is a proper time and place. On this forum there is a section for that, The Comedy Cafe. So if you want to make jokes, if you ask me, that would be a good place to make them. Now as for talking about oven ranges in a thread devoted to fighting ranges, I was not the OP who started the thread so I cannot speak for them. However, some people do start such threads with the intention of having a serious discussion about the topic at hand, and thus they might not like it when people make jokes about it.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> Alas and alack not for much longer.



That is a view not shared by over half the people who bothered to officially express their opinion.

Looks like you and I are on different sides of this particular fence...


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> That is a view not shared by over half the people who bothered to officially express their opinion.
> 
> Looks like you and I are on different sides of this particular fence...


Well, whether you're part of Europe or choose to go it alone, we will still have better beer than you.  So, it's all good.


----------



## pdg

Steve said:


> Well, whether you're part of Europe or choose to go it alone, we will still have better beer than you.  So, it's all good.



Dunno, I've had a few 'American' beers, but they were all brewed somewhere in Europe or the UK.

Because of that, I have no idea if they were accurate renditions...

Out of beer curiosity - what size is a standard pub/bar beer measure there?


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> Dunno, I've had a few 'American' beers, but they were all brewed somewhere in Europe or the UK.
> 
> Because of that, I have no idea if they were accurate renditions...
> 
> Out of beer curiosity - what size is a standard pub/bar beer measure there?


Which American beers have you had? If you’re talking Budweiser, Coors, etc., that’s not beer. Or at least not beer that anyone with actual beer knowledge would consider a good example of American beer. Yet it’s wildly popular. I guess people like beer flavored water or something.

We’ve got some excellent craft brews, as I’m sure you do too. I will say I’ll take a mass produced British beer such as Bass or Newcastle over our mass produced Budweiser or the like any day of the week. Then again, I don’t know what’s considered your equivalent to our Budweiser. Perhaps Bass and Newcastle are looked at as bland beer, or they’re looked at as a great example of the British scene. People like Samuel Smith’s brews here; I never cared much for them. I’m a big stout and even oatmeal stout fan; Samuel Smith’s oatmeal stout did nothing for me.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> Which American beers have you had? If you’re talking Budweiser, Coors, etc., that’s not beer. Or at least not beer that anyone with actual beer knowledge would consider a good example of American beer. Yet it’s wildly popular. I guess people like beer flavored water or something.
> 
> We’ve got some excellent craft brews, as I’m sure you do too. I will say I’ll take a mass produced British beer such as Bass or Newcastle over our mass produced Budweiser or the like any day of the week. Then again, I don’t know what’s considered your equivalent to our Budweiser. Perhaps Bass and Newcastle are looked at as bland beer, or they’re looked at as a great example of the British scene. People like Samuel Smith’s brews here; I never cared much for them. I’m a big stout and even oatmeal stout fan; Samuel Smith’s oatmeal stout did nothing for me.



I'm not really a big drinker anyway, so anything of American origin I've had is going to be mass market stuff.

It's alright on a hot day or at a BBQ or the like, but not exactly a thing to drink to enjoy just for itself if you know what I mean.

If going out for a drink I'll tend to go for local brews from small(er) breweries.

Bass and Newcastle are alright, but personally they're just mass market drinks to me.

And I know there's the whole thing about warm beer - but proper beer shouldn't be served cold as it utterly destroys the flavour - cold is the domain of lager, not beer 


At home? I have cheap French lager - it's not disagreeable...


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> I'm not really a big drinker anyway, so anything of American origin I've had is going to be mass market stuff.
> 
> It's alright on a hot day or at a BBQ or the like, but not exactly a thing to drink to enjoy just for itself if you know what I mean.
> 
> If going out for a drink I'll tend to go for local brews from small(er) breweries.
> 
> Bass and Newcastle are alright, but personally they're just mass market drinks to me.
> 
> And I know there's the whole thing about warm beer - but proper beer shouldn't be served cold as it utterly destroys the flavour - cold is the domain of lager, not beer
> 
> 
> At home? I have cheap French lager - it's not disagreeable...


What’s the difference between beer and lager?
  

When I was bar tending, I overheard a guy telling his buddy he could taste the difference between beer and ale. I just shook my head and kept minding my own business.


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> Dunno, I've had a few 'American' beers, but they were all brewed somewhere in Europe or the UK.
> 
> Because of that, I have no idea if they were accurate renditions...
> 
> Out of beer curiosity - what size is a standard pub/bar beer measure there?


I hope you aren't referring to "American Lagers," like Coors or Budweiser.  There are all kinds of great beers around, of all types.  IPAs are very trendy right now, but you can get great stouts, porters, pale ales, Scottish ales or whatever else you want.  Washington State is one of the best places in the world to grow hops, and as a result, we have had terrific beer for decades, going back to the very 80s when microbrews were first legally able to open up and compete with the giant, domestic breweries. 

As for the standard bar measure, if you're talking about the size of a pour, it depends.  Generally places will serve 12 oz, or a 20 oz.  I've had some imperial stouts, lambics, or other super strong beers that are sold 10 oz at a time, due to the high alcohol content.


----------



## Steve

JR 137 said:


> What’s the difference between beer and lager?
> 
> 
> When I was bar tending, I overheard a guy telling his buddy he could taste the difference between beer and ale. I just shook my head and kept minding my own business.


Lager is a beer, and so is ale.  The difference between lagers and ales are how they are fermented.  Ales are fermented at a higher temperature (somewhere around room temp) for a shorter period of time, while lagers are fermented closer to 40 or 50F and for a much longer amount of time.


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> I'm not really a big drinker anyway, so anything of American origin I've had is going to be mass market stuff.
> 
> It's alright on a hot day or at a BBQ or the like, but not exactly a thing to drink to enjoy just for itself if you know what I mean.
> 
> If going out for a drink I'll tend to go for local brews from small(er) breweries.
> 
> Bass and Newcastle are alright, but personally they're just mass market drinks to me.
> 
> And I know there's the whole thing about warm beer - but proper beer shouldn't be served cold as it utterly destroys the flavour - cold is the domain of lager, not beer
> 
> 
> At home? I have cheap French lager - it's not disagreeable...


When you say bbq, what do you mean?   I'm curious what a British bbq looks like.


----------



## JR 137

Steve said:


> Lager is a beer, and so is ale.  The difference between lagers and ales are how they are fermented.  Ales are fermented at a higher temperature (somewhere around room temp) for a shorter period of time, while lagers are fermented closer to 40 or 50F and for a much longer amount of time.


Correct, lager and ale are the two types of beer (excluding stuff like malt liquor and anything obscure I don’t know about).

One thing you forgot to mention, which I believe is the main distinction between the two is the type of yeast used during fermentation: ales use a top fermenting yeast, and lagers use a bottom fermenting yeast. To the best of my knowledge, the type of yeast being used dictates the time and temperature.

I’m not a brewer, but I bartended at a few brew pubs. 

Add to that people typically think lagers are dark and heavy, while ales are light in color and weight (actually specific gravity, but I won’t try to correct that). When I told people that stouts and porters are ales, so many of them laughed at me and told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. I typically just smiled and nonchalantly sent the brewer over. Then I gave them one on the house to save my tip


----------



## JR 137

Steve said:


> I hope you aren't referring to "American Lagers," like Coors or Budweiser.  There are all kinds of great beers around, of all types.  IPAs are very trendy right now, but you can get great stouts, porters, pale ales, Scottish ales or whatever else you want.  Washington State is one of the best places in the world to grow hops, and as a result, we have had terrific beer for decades, going back to the very 80s when microbrews were first legally able to open up and compete with the giant, domestic breweries.
> 
> As for the standard bar measure, if you're talking about the size of a pour, it depends.  Generally places will serve 12 oz, or a 20 oz.  I've had some imperial stouts, lambics, or other super strong beers that are sold 10 oz at a time, due to the high alcohol content.


And what is it with all the IPA lately? I think it’s a bunch of guys trying to prove their d!ck is bigger by saying they love beer that’s so strong and hopped so high. No different than the guys who run around drinking Bacardi 151 to prove they’re a real man or something.

I’m a big pale ale fan. Porter too. But the IPA craze is just out of control IMO. I remember trying a bunch of different Rogue beers back in the day. They had a reputation for being quite liberal with their hops. Every one of their beers I tried, I asked myself why would anyone want that. From the IPAs I’ve tried recently, Rogue seemed pretty tame in retrospect.

IPA rant over. Now I’ve got to hit the refrigerator for a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.


----------



## Steve

JR 137 said:


> And what is it with all the IPA lately? I think it’s a bunch of guys trying to prove their d!ck is bigger by saying they love beer that’s so strong and hopped so high. No different than the guys who run around drinking Bacardi 151 to prove they’re a real man or something.
> 
> I’m a big pale ale fan. Porter too. But the IPA craze is just out of control IMO. I remember trying a bunch of different Rogue beers back in the day. They had a reputation for being quite liberal with their hops. Every one of their beers I tried, I asked myself why would anyone want that. From the IPAs I’ve tried recently, Rogue seemed pretty tame in retrospect.
> 
> IPA rant over. Now I’ve got to hit the refrigerator for a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.


I agree ..i like the hops but theres a limit .  I do like the current craze of citrus IPA.  Like boddisatva from georgetown brewery (a local microbrew).  That is delicious .


----------



## JR 137

Steve said:


> I agree ..i like the hops but theres a limit .  I do like the current craze of citrus IPA.  Like boddisatva from georgetown brewery (a local microbrew).  That is delicious .


I’m not a fan of citrus or most any other flavors in beer. I’ll enjoy maybe a pint of it if it’s done right, but I start saying “ok, now what am I really going to drink?” One of the brew pubs I bartended at had a blackberry wheat ale. It was pretty good, but I couldn’t drink more than a pint of it. I’ve done black & tans with some of that and other stuff, but it was always more of a novelty thing to me.

I think I’ve seen the boddisatva you’re taking about. I’ll give it a try based on your recommendation.   A local beverage store that specializes in micro brews and craft brews allows people make their own six packs with most beers. I’ll throw one of those in there next time. 

If you’re looking for a NY brewed beer line, try Cooperstown brewery. Old Slugger Pale Ale and Benchwarmer Porter are two of my favorites. I don’t think they’re easy to come by outside NY (they’re not that easy to get here either) but I think their stuff is gaining ground in distribution. Their other beers are pretty good too.


----------



## Steve

JR 137 said:


> I’m not a fan of citrus or most any other flavors in beer. I’ll enjoy maybe a pint of it if it’s done right, but I start saying “ok, now what am I really going to drink?” One of the brew pubs I bartended at had a blackberry wheat ale. It was pretty good, but I couldn’t drink more than a pint of it. I’ve done black & tans with some of that and other stuff, but it was always more of a novelty thing to me.
> 
> I think I’ve seen the boddisatva you’re taking about. I’ll give it a try based on your recommendation.   A local beverage store that specializes in micro brews and craft brews allows people make their own six packs with most beers. I’ll throw one of those in there next time.
> 
> If you’re looking for a NY brewed beer line, try Cooperstown brewery. Old Slugger Pale Ale and Benchwarmer Porter are two of my favorites. I don’t think they’re easy to come by outside NY (they’re not that easy to get here either) but I think their stuff is gaining ground in distribution. Their other beers are pretty good too.


Will look out for it.

This is the stuff I’m talking about.   I really like it

Georgetown Brewing Company | Darn Tasty Beer.


----------



## JR 137

Steve said:


> Will look out for it.
> 
> This is the stuff I’m talking about.   I really like it
> 
> Georgetown Brewing Company | Darn Tasty Beer.


That’s most likely not what I think I saw, but I’ll definitely look out for it. If that place I mentioned earlier doesn’t have it, no one in my area will. They claim to carry “over 4,000 varieties of beer.”


----------



## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Just got done a few minutes ago. Quite the opposite, actually. It was all mush.


Please tell me that's an entire sentence in Armenian that just looks like English.


----------



## JR 137

gpseymour said:


> Please tell me that's an entire sentence in Armenian that just looks like English.


Sorry, but I just can’t tell you that. Otherwise I’d be lying. 

Great to see you back!


----------



## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Sorry, but I just can’t tell you that. Otherwise I’d be lying.
> 
> Great to see you back!


It's good to be back. I kept wanting to hop on while in India, but never had the combination of time, energy, and internet connectivity.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> That is a view not shared by over half the people who bothered to officially express their opinion.



Which quite honestly wasn't many. I remember life before the EU, it was bad. 




PhotonGuy said:


> Not necessarily. I just believe that for making jokes there is a proper time and place. On this forum there is a section for that, The Comedy Cafe. So if you want to make jokes, if you ask me, that would be a good place to make them. Now as for talking about oven ranges in a thread devoted to fighting ranges, I was not the OP who started the thread so I cannot speak for them. However, some people do start such threads with the intention of having a serious discussion about the topic at hand, and thus they might not like it when people make jokes about it.




You know that people can post things that are funny that aren't jokes? There's quite a few reasons for making witty comments, it's like the oil that smooths conversations, it indicates a level of sophistication in the conversation, it's intelligent and it's fun. It also indicates that the writer doesn't take himself too seriously. 

There are not too many homophones in English at all, there's only people who don't speak English properly.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> Which quite honestly wasn't many. I remember life before the EU, it was bad.



72.2% of registered voters turned out, which was higher than general elections in recent years and not exactly "not many".

There are parts of the EU I agree with, but more importantly to me there are parts I fundamentally disagree with.

I won't go into it any further here, but as always, pm if you fancy a private mini argument


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> 72.2% of registered voters turned out, which was higher than general elections in recent years and not exactly "not many".
> 
> There are parts of the EU I agree with, but more importantly to me there are parts I fundamentally disagree with.
> 
> I won't go into it any further here, but as always, pm if you fancy a private mini argument




To be honest I'm sick of the arguments of the Brexit problem, so much misinformation, so much nastiness that has crawled out from under stones. I will point out that Scotland voted to stay in as many areas did. It has divided the country, caused the nationalists, Nazis and bigots to emerge shouting they'd won and generally turned the UK into something I don't recognise and with so much uncertainty, doubt and venom being launched I really just want to go back to bed and pretend the whole thing isn't happening. The reason 'politics' was banned on MT was because of much of the same things that are going on now over Brexit, they banned politics here I just wish it was so in the UK over this subject.


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> To be honest I'm sick of the arguments of the Brexit problem, so much misinformation, so much nastiness that has crawled out from under stones.



Also to be honest, that's true of both sides.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> Also to be honest, that's true of both sides.




I didn't say it wasn't. However the bigots, xenophobes and Nazis are coming out on the leave side.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> I didn't say it wasn't. However the bigots, xenophobes and Nazis are coming out on the leave side.


I'm sure glad we don't have those problems in America.


----------



## now disabled

Tez3 said:


> I will point out that Scotland voted to stay in




Yup we did lol.....................Like most other things we kinda don't get listened to 

It really has caused major disruption and will do as the parts of the country that need the EU eh well they got kinda out voiced by the parts that don't ......If ya think that ref was bad and stirred up the pot well you shoulda seen what the ind ref did it actually split families and still does and it will rear it's head again as well the Brexit lot are really gonna make that happen imo an that apart from which side your on just is not in any way good news at all.


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> Yup we did lol.....................Like most other things we kinda don't get listened to
> 
> It really has caused major disruption and will do as the parts of the country that need the EU eh well they got kinda out voiced by the parts that don't ......If ya think that ref was bad and stirred up the pot well you shoulda seen what the ind ref did it actually split families and still does and it will rear it's head again as well the Brexit lot are really gonna make that happen imo an that apart from which side your on just is not in any way good news at all.


You're Scottish?  Huh.

Regarding the splitting families, that's an unfortunate side effect of the current climate here in the States, as well.  I think the real tragedy is that everything is being viewed politically, to include moral and ethical issues.  I have serious concerns when ethical questions are being viewed through the cynical, calculated lens of political gain or loss.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> I'm sure glad we don't have those problems in America.




Lol 

Seriously no that kinda problem you really do not want asit could lead to the break up of a union that has stood for a fair amount of time and that is not good .... It will and is causing major instability and well ok you guys has individual states that you love (or hate lol) but we have countries and well to even think of a hard border between any of them is not a pleasant thought at all... Yes as a Scot I am patriotic and will never go against my homeland but the union has stood to long and it not just as simple as saying stand alone


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> You're Scottish?  Huh.
> 
> Regarding the splitting families, that's an unfortunate side effect of the current climate here in the States, as well.  I think the real tragedy is that everything is being viewed politically, to include moral and ethical issues.  I have serious concerns when ethical questions are being viewed through the cynical, calculated lens of political gain or loss.




Yes I ama born and bred Islander a native gaelic speaker and my family bible goes back to 1690 lol 

Yes it has split families and you are so right about the political gain as really it could and has stirred up a **** load of trouble .....Unfortunately the politicians saying oh we don't want the past to be an issue or mentioned actually means they do and that is when the trouble starts lol as then ......................all rational thought goes out the window and the past gets dragged up and ummm well that is not good at all ....not in any way


----------



## pdg

I'll tell you what was really unfair...

Scotland had a vote about whether to stay part of the UK or be a completely independent country.

Nobody asked the rest of us if we wanted to keep them or not


----------



## Tez3

now disabled said:


> Yes I ama born and bred Islander a native gaelic speaker and my family bible goes back to 1690 lol
> 
> Yes it has split families and you are so right about the political gain as really it could and has stirred up a **** load of trouble .....Unfortunately the politicians saying oh we don't want the past to be an issue or mentioned actually means they do and that is when the trouble starts lol as then ......................all rational thought goes out the window and the past gets dragged up and ummm well that is not good at all ....not in any way




My father is Scottish, my mother was Dutch, my father doesn't have the Gaelic though, not spoken much in Aberdeen. He's in his 90s now and voted to remain, he's also ripped up his Labour membership card, with all the anti Semitism, supported them all his working life. Sad times are here.


----------



## now disabled

Tez3 said:


> My father is Scottish, my mother was Dutch, my father doesn't have the Gaelic though, not spoken much in Aberdeen. He's in his 90s now and voted to remain, he's also ripped up his Labour membership card, with all the anti Semitism, supported them all his working life. Sad times are here.



Yes it is sad and I fear more trouble lies ahead


----------



## now disabled

pdg said:


> I'll tell you what was really unfair...
> 
> Scotland had a vote about whether to stay part of the UK or be a completely independent country.
> 
> Nobody asked the rest of us if we wanted to keep them or not




That is the kind of thing I was alluding to and just for the record many English people did vote in the ref ...it was not just Scots


----------



## pdg

now disabled said:


> That is the kind of thing I was alluding to and just for the record many English people did vote in the ref ...it was not just Scots



Only those living there (or registered as living there for the purpose of voting registration) got to vote on it.

If it were my way, either none of the English living there would've got a vote, or the entire UK would have.

In either case, I think lots of people would have required new passports...


----------



## now disabled

pdg said:


> Only those living there (or registered as living there for the purpose of voting registration) got to vote on it.
> 
> If it were my way, either none of the English living there would've got a vote, or the entire UK would have.
> 
> In either case, I think lots of people would have required new passports...




Oh dear I am not going to get into an argument over this as it will stir many a thing up that need not be stirred up. As far as voting then why should you if you neither livein the country nor are resident there have a vote, Incidentally you did have a vote indirectly asyour member of parliament had to vote on the ref bill for there to be one in the first place. 

Saying what you did is lie saying the time of Longshanks is again upon us


----------



## pdg

now disabled said:


> Oh dear I am not going to get into an argument over this as it will stir many a thing up that need not be stirred up. As far as voting then why should you if you neither livein the country nor are resident there have a vote, Incidentally you did have a vote indirectly asyour member of parliament had to vote on the ref bill for there to be one in the first place.
> 
> Saying what you did is lie saying the time of Longshanks is again upon us



But something like the EU gets to vote on whether to accept a country or not, so why not the other way around?

Maybe they don't vote on an individual level, but it's still there.

Oh, and "my" MP? He's nothing to do with me.


----------



## pdg

And with that, I shall depart the thread...


----------



## Steve

There are a few states I wouldn't mind giving up. 

On second thought.  I'm fond of them all. 


now disabled said:


> Oh dear I am not going to get into an argument over this as it will stir many a thing up that need not be stirred up. As far as voting then why should you if you neither livein the country nor are resident there have a vote, Incidentally you did have a vote indirectly asyour member of parliament had to vote on the ref bill for there to be one in the first place.
> 
> Saying what you did is lie saying the time of Longshanks is again upon us


Let's just hope someone, somewhere, is watching a spider struggle to make a web!


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> And with that, I shall depart the thread...


Wait.  Don't go.  We could talk about beer some more!


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> There are a few states I wouldn't mind giving up.
> 
> On second thought.  I'm fond of them all.
> Let's just hope someone, somewhere, is watching a spider struggle to make a web!




That is another load of myth and legend as the Bruce in a cave is highly highly unlikely lol ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that be moreakin to a certain gentleman who reinvented Scotland for the tourists lol. All be it Victorian and English tourists lol. Like the same gentleman in vented the myth of Rob Roy lol ..................he was Scotlands second spin doctor lol


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> That is another load of myth and legend as the Bruce in a cave is highly highly unlikely lol ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that be moreakin to a certain gentleman who reinvented Scotland for the tourists lol. All be it Victorian and English tourists lol. Like the same gentleman in vented the myth of Rob Roy lol ..................he was Scotlands second spin doctor lol


I was talking about Spider-Man.   But sure, Robert the Bruce works too.  

In related news they are making a big budget movie about robert the Bruce played by the same dude who played the role in the movie braveheart.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> I was talking about Spider-Man.   But sure, Robert the Bruce works too.
> 
> In related news they are making a big budget movie about robert the Bruce played by the same dude who played the role in the movie braveheart.




That should be fun to see how much they get wrong and invent lol

As about the only thing they got right in that other Movie was the names lol


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> But something like the EU gets to vote on whether to accept a country or not, so why not the other way around?
> 
> Maybe they don't vote on an individual level, but it's still there.
> 
> Oh, and "my" MP? He's nothing to do with me.




I voted to join the EU when we had the referendum for it in 1975, you lot are too young to remember.

The funniest thing for me though about this latest referendum was all the ex pat Brits ( they are never immigrants or economic migrants, always ex pats) voting to leave the EU because of 'too many immigrants in the UK who don't assimilate, learn English etc'. this is hilarious because none of them speak the language of the country they are in, they have brit cafes serving Brit food, their own newspaper in English, clubs for Brits, their own estate agencies and they use the local health facilities etc They really are very funny! 
British expats in Spain have a warning to the UK on immigration


----------



## pdg

This particular part dragged me back...



Tez3 said:


> The funniest thing for me though about this latest referendum was all the ex pat Brits ( they are never immigrants or economic migrants, always ex pats) voting to leave the EU because of 'too many immigrants in the UK who don't assimilate, learn English etc'. this is hilarious because none of them speak the language of the country they are in, they have brit cafes serving Brit food, their own newspaper in English, clubs for Brits, their own estate agencies and they use the local health facilities etc They really are very funny!



Funny isn't a word I'd use unless I was being ironic 

When I moved to France I experienced the same type of people...

While there, I spoke bad French (and worse Breton), we shopped in the local shops, we took part in the local traditions and village/church events, we used local trade (and I was on the way to becoming a local trade) - and we put quite a lot of effort into avoiding other immigrants wherever possible.

One thing learned very quickly was to not speak English while shopping, especially in supermarkets.

Not for the locals, they don't care - but because if you do, you're quickly surrounded by "expats" asking you round to theirs for a chat because "oh, I'm so glad to hear an English voice".

For some reason, they always got extremely uppity if I said "you're so desperate to hear English voices? f.off back to England then" 



Oh, and it also annoyed them that I referred to myself as an immigrant, and annoyed them even more if I called them one.


Essentially, I think (some) immigrants into the UK really should integrate more (not entirely wipe out their heritage, nor forsake their history), but that people emigrating from the UK should do the same.

With a bit more acceptance in all directions we could all get along just fine.


----------



## Tez3

pdg said:


> While there, I spoke bad French (and worse Breton),




You'll have an understanding of Welsh and Cornish then! A Welsh speaking friend of mine, Ricky Wright, can understand Breton and Cornish very well, he's also a very good pro MC for fight nights, he's willing to travel if anyone wants a good MC!


----------



## pdg

Tez3 said:


> You'll have an understanding of Welsh and Cornish then! A Welsh speaking friend of mine, Ricky Wright, can understand Breton and Cornish very well, he's also a very good pro MC for fight nights, he's willing to travel if anyone wants a good MC!



A little Cornish, Welsh - a little less.

Honestly now it would be very very little - been nigh on a decade since I last utterly murdered it in conversation.


----------



## Steve

now disabled said:


> That should be fun to see how much they get wrong and invent lol
> 
> As about the only thing they got right in that other Movie was the names lol


It's a movie.  I wouldn't expect it to be very accurate.  Could be a good one, though.  I read a book (well, technically a trilogy) many years ago about Robert the Bruce which I enjoyed very much, by Nigel Tranter.


----------



## pdg

Steve said:


> It's a movie. I wouldn't expect it to be very accurate.



Isn't that why they're called movies instead of documentaries?

(Actually, they're commonly called films here, I only use the term movie online.)


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> Isn't that why they're called movies instead of documentaries?
> 
> (Actually, they're commonly called films here, I only use the term movie online.)


You guys still use film?

Being a little more serious, it really depends on context .  film is a throwback to when movies were filmed.   You could accurately call a movie a feature.  Feature length movies are anything over 80 minutes, iirc.  If you called something a film I think people would get the idea.


----------



## pdg

Steve said:


> You guys still use film?
> 
> Being a little more serious, it really depends on context .  film is a throwback to when movies were filmed.   You could accurately call a movie a feature.  Feature length movies are anything over 80 minutes, iirc.  If you called something a film I think people would get the idea.



It's another language development thing.

They were originally "moving pictures".

So, some people shortened that to "movies".

Others used the media name - so of an evening I won't "watch a movie", I'll "watch a film".

Oh, and when visiting the cinema it's colloquially referred to around here as "going to the pictures".

And, the "feature" part was because you'd normally have a newsreel, a couple of shorts, and finally the "feature presentation" - which is what you were going to see in the first place.


----------



## Steve

pdg said:


> It's another language development thing.
> 
> They were originally "moving pictures".
> 
> So, some people shortened that to "movies".
> 
> Others used the media name - so of an evening I won't "watch a movie", I'll "watch a film".
> 
> Oh, and when visiting the cinema it's colloquially referred to around here as "going to the pictures".
> 
> And, the "feature" part was because you'd normally have a newsreel, a couple of shorts, and finally the "feature presentation" - which is what you were going to see in the first place.


But I'm still shocked you guys use film.


----------



## pdg

Steve said:


> But I'm still shocked you guys use film.



Oh right.

Yeah, all the time.


----------



## pdg

Now how many youngsters have I just made think "what on earth is that a picture of???"


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> It's a movie.  I wouldn't expect it to be very accurate.  Could be a good one, though.  I read a book (well, technically a trilogy) many years ago about Robert the Bruce which I enjoyed very much, by Nigel Tranter.



Tranter books are good 

if you can get a copy of the jacobite trilogy it is a good one ...it may have a different title stateside it set just before and through the aftermath of Culloden


----------



## Tez3

If the OP has problems with English he should try Welsh...no vowels!


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> If the OP has problems with English he should try Welsh...no vowels!


what a mess.   I don't think we should play the blame game.  But if I were (and I'm not saying we should), I blame the Normans.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Steve said:


> what a mess.   I don't think we should play the blame game.  But if I were (and I'm not saying we should), I blame the Normans.


I blame the Romans. Fewer N's - easier to type; that's how I pick my scapegoats.


----------



## now disabled

Tez3 said:


> You'll have an understanding of Welsh and Cornish then! A Welsh speaking friend of mine, Ricky Wright, can understand Breton and Cornish very well, he's also a very good pro MC for fight nights, he's willing to travel if anyone wants a good MC!



The Celtic langs are split into two camps lol......The P line and the Q line .....The P line is Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx anonly has 18 letters in the alphabets ....the Q line is Welsh, Cornish and Breton , they all have 26 letters.
I cannot understand a word of what the Q line say and even the P line I can understand about 40% of what they say lol ... Although they are all Celtic langs the Q line is more from the Britons where as the P line comes more from pictish origins


----------



## now disabled

gpseymour said:


> I blame the Romans. Fewer N's - easier to type; that's how I pick my scapegoats.




Oh you'd like Gaelic as it only has 18 letters lol .....unfortunately N is there though the missing letters as such are J, K, Q, V, W, X, Y and Z ....that said lol we still make those sounds and usually these days the letters are used esp for modern words lol .... for example Whisky in my gaelic is Usige Beatha ...(literal translation the water of life lol .... however Usige can also mean rain lol and the G is pronounced as like a soft K and the th the T is silent lol )


----------



## Steve

Come on, @now disabled, you're interrupting the jokes with interesting information.


----------



## now disabled

Steve said:


> Come on, @now disabled, you're interrupting the jokes with interesting information.




Sorry was just trying to keep you informed teach lol


----------



## Gerry Seymour

now disabled said:


> Oh you'd like Gaelic as it only has 18 letters lol .....unfortunately N is there though the missing letters as such are J, K, Q, V, W, X, Y and Z ....that said lol we still make those sounds and usually these days the letters are used esp for modern words lol .... for example Whisky in my gaelic is Usige Beatha ...(literal translation the water of life lol .... however Usige can also mean rain lol and the G is pronounced as like a soft K and the th the T is silent lol )


If I want confusing use of seemingly familiar letters, I'll get the Hobbit to provide some Russian, where the N's are backwards, and aren't really N's, at all. If you want an N, you really need an H. 

Grumble...


----------



## now disabled

gpseymour said:


> If I want confusing use of seemingly familiar letters, I'll get the Hobbit to provide some Russian, where the N's are backwards, and aren't really N's, at all. If you want an N, you really need an H.
> 
> Grumble...




Oh in gaelic if you want a V (which isn't there lol) use a bh or mh lol................but beware if they are not at the start of a word then they are silent ..well sometimes lol..........and plurals oh then the word can change completely ........well from three to 11 then it reverts to singular until 13 and from there on it plural again .............that is why it is so hard to teach my language ...well the powers that be have tried to standardise it .........now many native speakers when they hear a learner or a kid speaking they oft times have to revert to english, as it makes no sense lol


----------



## JR 137

_“Names are not always what they seem. The common Welsh name BZJXXLLWCP is pronounced Jackson.”_ 
- Mark Twain

Any truth to this?


----------



## now disabled

JR 137 said:


> _“Names are not always what they seem. The common Welsh name BZJXXLLWCP is pronounced Jackson.”_
> - Mark Twain
> 
> Any truth to this?




Dunno lol but could be .............. one thing I do like about my lang is when folks try to put two words together and think they are good to do that, when in reality as a person I came across found out .......He thought he had called his house Big Knife or long knife (a reference he was trying to make to the dirk (scots dagger) where as what he did do was call his house Dick head lol


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> _“Names are not always what they seem. The common Welsh name BZJXXLLWCP is pronounced Jackson.”_
> - Mark Twain
> 
> Any truth to this?



It's extremely unlikely.

Names ending in "son" or "sen" aren't traditionally Welsh - along with those ending "dotter" or similar they are of Danish origin.

The name "Jackson" is literally "son of Jack" - and as "son" in Welsh is "mab" and names beginning with "J" are very uncommon the etymology just doesn't track.


----------



## now disabled

pdg said:


> It's extremely unlikely.
> 
> Names ending in "son" or "sen" aren't traditionally Welsh - along with those ending "dotter" or similar they are of Danish origin.
> 
> The name "Jackson" is literally "son of Jack" - and as "son" in Welsh is "mab" and names beginning with "J" are very uncommon the etymology just doesn't track.




And son of in Scots Gaelic is Mac and daughter of is Nic 

To get really into it for example there really is no Clan MacDonald in gaelic it is Clan Donald (Clan means family well Clann actually) and some of the Clan names can actually be translated lol for example Campbell mens twisted or crooked mouth and Cameron means twisted or crooked nose lol ..............The Clan structure is complicated and not all families are stand alone. The best known clan is probably MacDonald but even that is made up of different families not bearing the name MacDonald and also of the different septs of the Clan bearing MacDonald ....There is the High Chief but then there are the Clan Chiefs. 

I actually get a laugh at tourist on this island when they ask one how do you pronounce the name of something and two what does it mean lol ................many do have meaning but some do not or they actually come from Norse originally. 

In English it may be that "son" comes from the Danes but up here "son" may well just be the English spelling ie Donaldson ...the son has been added to the end as opposed to the start as it would be in trad gaelic lol (well modern trad gaelic lol as there is classical gaelic to )


----------

