# Split - General Ninjutsu Discussion



## rutherford (Oct 28, 2005)

Nimravus said:
			
		

> If Hatsumi sensei had never put out the "What Is Martial Arts/Budo Wa Nan Desu Ka" tape, would anyone ever have guessed that we're _allowed_ to use shrimping to get rid of someone mounting us within the "boundaries" of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu?


 
I always smile when I see the part where Hatsumi grabs the guy who has him mounted in a Very Sensitive place and then just starts laughing.  

What does Soke say about being a martial artist with your eyes closed?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 28, 2005)

Going further in that direction, I have a VCD from four years ago in which Pedro Fleitas (one of the Shitenno, or "Four Kings of Bujinkan" along with Arnaud Cousergue, Peter King and Sveneric Bogsater) demonstrates techniques from a rear naked choke position - on my current instructor, no less.


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## Dale Seago (Oct 28, 2005)

Nimravus said:
			
		

> . . . (one of the Shitenno, or "Four Kings of Bujinkan" along with Arnaud Cousergue, Peter King and Sveneric Bogsater). . .



Minor correction: Soke refers to them as the "4 kings" of Europe.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 28, 2005)

My bad.

(Off the records: big difference. :shrug: :CTF: :btg: :lol2:  )


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## Dale Seago (Oct 30, 2005)

There's an entirely different "big 4" among the Japanese shihan, the first four Japanese  to be promoted to 15th dan.


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## Senin (Oct 30, 2005)

Dale Seago said:
			
		

> There's an entirely different "big 4" among the Japanese shihan, the first four Japanese  to be promoted to 15th dan.



Great.  Who are they?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 30, 2005)

Noguchi, Oguri, Seno and Nagato, if I'm not mistaken?


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## Dale Seago (Oct 31, 2005)

Bingo!


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## Fallen Ninja (Oct 31, 2005)

Dale Seago said:
			
		

> There's an entirely different "big 4" among the Japanese shihan, the first four Japanese to be promoted to 15th dan.


 How about 4 American Shihan?
Hoban, Seago, ...? I need 2 more!


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## Senin (Oct 31, 2005)

Van Donk?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Oct 31, 2005)

Senin said:
			
		

> Van Donk?



If nothing else, I've heard people call him "the only guy in the Bujinkan who has been to more Taikai than Hatsumi". :ultracool


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## Dale Seago (Oct 31, 2005)

Fallen Ninja said:
			
		

> How about 4 American Shihan?
> Hoban, Seago, ...? I need 2 more!


 
You can leave me out -- I know we have at least that many 15th dans in, or at least from, the USA, and I'm not as rank as that yet.

Though I do need only one more to have collected the whole set. Then I can signal my minions to put my operation plan for World Ninja Domination into effect. :EG: I'll begin by destroying the Ninja Temple in Noda :jedi1: . . .

Oops, mixing movies there. Sorry. :uhohh:


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## Cryozombie (Oct 31, 2005)

Cats,

this is all off topic


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## Senin (Nov 1, 2005)

Yeah, but this has turned really interesting.  Who are the great American ninjutsu practioners?  Not Van Donk?  Okay, what is the group going to say about Hayes (I know that will stir it up)?  Even though he branched off, isn't he one of the top Americans?

Okay, who are the top 5 Americans?


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## Flatlander (Nov 1, 2005)

Senin said:
			
		

> Yeah, but this has turned really interesting. Who are the great American ninjutsu practioners? Not Van Donk? Okay, what is the group going to say about Hayes (I know that will stir it up)? Even though he branched off, isn't he one of the top Americans?
> 
> Okay, who are the top 5 Americans?


This thread split from thread  _SKH Books a representation of Bujinkan?_


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## Bigshadow (Nov 1, 2005)

Fallen Ninja said:
			
		

> How about 4 American Shihan?
> Hoban, Seago, ...? I need 2 more!



How about Dick Severance and Ed Martin?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 1, 2005)

I'll vouch for Sheila Haddad.


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## Shizen Shigoku (Nov 1, 2005)

Bigshadow: "How about Dick Severance and Ed Martin?"

Both get my vote.

How about Bud?


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## Bigshadow (Nov 1, 2005)

Shizen Shigoku said:
			
		

> Bigshadow: "How about Dick Severance and Ed Martin?"
> 
> Both get my vote.
> 
> How about Bud?



I thought about him after I posted.   I figured someone would catch him!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 1, 2005)

So many people could be listed I will just mention a few!
Phil Legare, Mike Pearce, Jeff Prather just to name a few!
All Americans even though two are currently living in Japan!

Brian R. VanCise


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 1, 2005)

Oh and how could I forget Ed Martin!  Papa-san is 
always at the top of the list!

Brian R. VanCise


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## Bigshadow (Nov 1, 2005)

What really bums me out, is that Jack Hoban will be here on Saturday and I won't be able to attend the seminar.  This will be the first time I have missed since I began training (well maybe the second). I will be getting on a cruise ship on Saturday.


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## kakuma (Nov 1, 2005)

I would like to nominate 

Bud Malmstrom
Jack Hoban
Bill Atkins
?????????

Sorry could not think of anyone else. However, I think the 1st 3 are a great start.


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## Kizaru (Nov 1, 2005)

Senin said:
			
		

> Who are the great American ninjutsu practioners?
> 
> Okay, who are the top 5 Americans?


 
Hmm...who're the best? How about...

Leonardo
Michaelangelo
Donatello
Rafael

and my all time favorite....

Batman


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 1, 2005)

John Cassavetes.


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## Shinkengata (Nov 2, 2005)

Bill Atkins
Mark O' Brien
Sean Askew
Bud Malstrom


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## Bigshadow (Nov 2, 2005)

Kizaru said:
			
		

> Hmm...who're the best? How about...
> 
> Leonardo
> Michaelangelo
> ...


I second those votes!    Wait, but I thought the question WAS something about American 15th Dans.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 2, 2005)

Actually Batman is a 20th Dan!

Brian R. VanCise


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## rutherford (Nov 2, 2005)

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> I second those votes!  Wait, but I thought the question WAS something about American 15th Dans.


 
You know, I've never seen Sean Askew mention his rank, and Dale has some funny statements about Soke just throwing ceritificates across the ocean at him.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 2, 2005)

Have I missed something or is it true that no Bujinkan member is allowed to participate in shootfighting tournaments without Hatsumi's personal consent?


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## Bigshadow (Nov 2, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> You know, I've never seen Sean Askew mention his rank, and Dale has some funny statements about Soke just throwing ceritificates across the ocean at him.


Me either, I have also trained with 2 or 3 teachers who I know are above godan but I have no clue what rank they really are, because they don't talk about it. I guess I could have asked, but I didn't think it was important, their movement spoke for itself.


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## Dale Seago (Nov 2, 2005)

The ones to keep your eyes on are the ones who never wear their Electric Persimmon uniform patch on their gi jacket.


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## Bigshadow (Nov 3, 2005)

Dale Seago said:
			
		

> The ones to keep your eyes on are the ones who never wear their Electric Persimmon uniform patch on their gi jacket.


HAHAHAHA!  I couldn't agree more! :rofl:


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## Fallen Ninja (Nov 3, 2005)

I vouche for anyone who's taijutsu is better than mine! 

On a serious note:

Joel Everett?

I don't know... I did ask a good question! 

:ninja:
FN


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## Shogun (Nov 3, 2005)

> Have I missed something or is it true that no Bujinkan member is allowed to participate in shootfighting tournaments without Hatsumi's personal consent?


I didnt know this. Is it only if you are to represent Bujinkan?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 3, 2005)

That's exactly what I was aiming at. Originally, I was going to say that I would have increased respect for Mr. Askew if he was told to _represent the Bujinkan_ as opposed to having just participated in said tournaments. However, I went to watch a freestyle martial arts tournament focused on sanshou/kickboxing and stand-up fighting just last weekend in which a relatively new Bujinkan member represented his own dojo (wearing a long-sleeved grappling tshirt, no less). I highly doubt he went to Japan to ask for permission beforehand.


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## Fallen Ninja (Nov 3, 2005)

Did he win?


:ninja:
FN


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## Bigshadow (Nov 4, 2005)

Nimravus said:
			
		

> However, I went to watch a freestyle martial arts tournament focused on sanshou/kickboxing and stand-up fighting just last weekend in which a relatively new Bujinkan member represented his own dojo (wearing a long-sleeved grappling tshirt, no less). I highly doubt he went to Japan to ask for permission beforehand.



Hmmm... Do you know if his dojo teach other styles as well?


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm fairly familiar with the heads of the dojo in question and am pretty positive they don't. I do however have a buddy who runs his own dojo in which I trained this summer, and whose wife (who has a shodan as far as I remember) is a several times lightweight gold champion in the same tournament.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Nov 4, 2005)

Fallen Ninja said:
			
		

> Did he win?


 
Nope, he fought a sanshou stylist and remained all too passive throughout the match.


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