# Bikers?



## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

I see from a few of the pictures at the top of the main forum page, that some here are bikers.

What do you ride?
How long have you been riding? 
Do you consider yourself to be a biker or a martial artist?


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## Twin Fist (Jun 22, 2011)

I ride a kawasaki Vulcan Nomad 1600, been riding a few years.

why not both?


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## Sukerkin (Jun 22, 2011)

:grins:  I was going to say that that was not a particular penetrating question in the OP, in terms of what the distinction reveals about people .

Both *TF* and me are bikers (ex-biker in my case due to bike-related injury (used to ride Triumph's and a Suzuki GSX-750R)) and martial artists.  He is a right wing, god-fearing American and I am an English, atheist, Liberal ... and we get along fine.

So which bit is the one where the importance of whether we consider ourselves bikers or martial artists lies :lol:?

I don't mean this to sound dismissive by the way, I'm interested to hear what is the background to the question.


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## seasoned (Jun 22, 2011)

Motorcycles are scary, and I don't ride for that reason. Side note, I would rather spar a biker, then be one.


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## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> :grins:  I was going to say that that was not a particular penetrating question in the OP, in terms of what the distinction reveals about people .
> 
> Both *TF* and me are bikers (ex-biker in my case due to bike-related injury (used to ride Triumph's and a Suzuki GSX-750R)) and martial artists.  He is a right wing, god-fearing American and I am an English, atheist, Liberal ... and we get along fine.
> 
> ...



Not every question or remark is of extreme depth and significance.  Idle curiosity only.

My current ride is a 2011 Harley Davidson Street Bob, denim black + apes.

I've ridden since I was 16 years of age.. Harleys mostly, but also Indians, Hondas, a  BSA, and even a Matchless.  My father was a biker, and so I was around the life for most of my life.

I think being a martial artist indicates a certain mental / spiritual strength, and a resolve (indomitable spirit as we say in TKD circles).

Being a biker indicates a sense of adventure... but also a feeling of being outside of the rest of society.  1%ers usually define "outlaw" not as one who breaks the law, but one that lives outside it.

Personally I believe the 2 facets of my personality (martial artist and biker) go nicely together.

As I said... no in depth thought here - just idle curiosity.


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## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

seasoned said:


> Motorcycles are scary, and I don't ride for that reason. Side note, I would rather spar a biker, then be one.



Ah but being a martial artist is to confront your fears.  Most people are very afraid of physical confrontation.. yet we actually PAY someone so that we can confront that fear.. in hopes of overcoming it.

Edited to add:

You probably won't ever "spar" (fight with) a biker.  Note the singular there.... if you get into it with one biker, chances are VERY good you will be dealing with a crowd of them.


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## Supra Vijai (Jun 22, 2011)

Very similar to Sukerkin except for the part about being English 

Used to ride, got cleaned up by a lady who ran a red light, extensive injuries, a year off training etc etc. Used to ride a Kwaka GPX (was still on my learners and we have power restrictions here in Oz). Don't ride anymore as my learners expired while I was in rehab post surgery and I missed the cutoff to go for my full licence... although my dad keeps bugging me to get a new bike and reapply for my licence - I'm thinking he can't get my mum to agree to him getting his own bike so he plans on stealing mine most of the time again 

With your question though, I'd have to say both. Like you said being a martial artists requires strength and resolve and IMO so does being a biker. Every day you have to conciously have the resolve to straddle basically an engine with 2 wheels and 0 protection compared to a car whilst facing the same (if not worse) road conditions and get out alive. In my mind, based on a question I recently asked about the fear response during MA training, this is very similar to facing off against an opponent and knowing their one job or goal is to kill you and you need to get out alive using your training. 



> yet we actually PAY someone so that we can confront that fear..



Amen. I got tired of telling people I do Ninjutsu and explaining what it is so for a laugh I told one person I get professionally beaten up once a week... That made an impression


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## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

A few years ago I rode from Las Crusas NM up to Colorado Springs CO in mid March... low 30's to high 20's (F) the whole way..  

Strength of resolve... you bet.


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## Supra Vijai (Jun 22, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> A few years ago I rode from Las Crusas NM up to Colorado Springs CO in mid March... low 30's to high 20's (F) the whole way..
> 
> Strength of resolve... you bet.



Pretty much what I meant about worse conditions lol... Wind chill would have been fun!


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## Indagator (Jun 22, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> You probably won't ever "spar" (fight with) a biker. Note the singular there.... if you get into it with one biker, chances are VERY good you will be dealing with a crowd of them.


 
That's because some clubs have rules in the charter that require all members present to participate if one member becomes involved in a fight (more or less).

Some of these charter rules are somewhat archaic and date to a time when even the biggest and most well known of MCs were localised in no more than a few states at best, and conflicts between various local clubs were commonplace.

As far as the OP goes, I see no reason why somebody could not be both a biker and a martial artist? In fact I know a lot of martial artists who ride...

Perhaps when he says "biker" he is thinking specifically of one percenter clubs?

Even then, I grew up through the bowels of society and a lot of my old pals are involved in scenes like that - many of them aren't really bad people at all, but I guess to an extent the old HAMC motto is right - when they do right nobody remembers when they do wrong nobody forgets...

Lol.

I've rambled on a bit longer than I meant to here, but basically trying to point out that not all who ride are badasses and even not all one percenters are violent thugs. There is a certain respect for one another that exists out there on the road, that much can be said.

Back to the OP at hand, I am currently considering (what with gas prices and all) switching back from four wheels to two.


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## Indagator (Jun 22, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Both *TF* and me are bikers (ex-biker in my case due to bike-related injury (used to ride Triumph's and a Suzuki GSX-750R)) and martial artists. He is a right wing, god-fearing American and I am an English, atheist, Liberal ... and we get along fine..


 
Funny how things can be that way. Back when I was training in Muay Thai I had one trainer who I was closest with who was fom East Belfast, born and raised a prod-brit and friend/family ties to UVF while then there was me who is Catholic, direct blood-ties to Derry, West Belfast and one or two other hotspots and some family members who are politically active in an opposite direction to his, but despite all this we got on really well and were really good friends.

Spose at the end of the day, martial arts surpasses politics and religion in a certain sense.... the focus at the time is on the art and common ground rather than differneces...


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## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

Indagator said:


> I've rambled on a bit longer than I meant to here, but basically trying  to point out that not all who ride are badasses and even not all one  percenters are violent thugs. There is a certain respect for one another  that exists out there on the road, that much can be said.
> ...
> Spose at the end of the day, martial arts surpasses politics and religion in a certain sense.... the focus at the time is on the art and common ground rather than differneces...



There is a lot of similarity between bikers and martial artists.. mostly that we're not all thugs.  I recall way back when that if you were studying martial arts, people assumed you thought you were a bad ***.. they would feel threatened - even though you would do nothing to make them feel that way... and it's a short distance from feeling threatened to some yahoo talking smack to you and things going south.

Back in this same time frame, if you rode a Harley, maybe with some apes - etc., people thought you were a bad *** and looking for trouble.  Some stores wouldn't let you in.

AND

being a biker and being a martial artist - both these go beyond politics, religion and all the rest.

AND

both require a level of commitment that is beyond what most people are willing to do.

AND

Just like there are some martial artists that are really into the hard core aspects of what we do - there are also bikers that are the same way... these can be "Independents" (like me) who put in excess of 20,000 miles a year on their ride, or are in MC's.. some 1%er MC's.  

On the other hand some martial artists are fine in "family centers" and dojo's that are "sparring optional"... and there are bikers that are professionals, not into the 1% life at all, and maybe put 2000 or 3000 miles a year on their ride.

So there are more similarities than there are differences, in my opinion.


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## Aikicomp (Jun 22, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> I see from a few of the pictures at the top of the main forum page, that some here are bikers.
> 
> What do you ride?
> 
> ...


 
"Biker" IMHO has a somewhat negative feel to it (to those who don't realize what it's about). To the public in general, I feel it's a term that they associate with 1% clubs.

Although, my brother is a member of B.A.C.A. (Bikers against child abuse) and they do some very good work with victims and families of abuse victims and most of them look like 1%'s. They also have to have an open dialogue with ALL the clubs (1%'s included), as well as, all levels of (local, county, state and federal) LE agencies so they can do what they do with families.

As for myself, I don't consider myself either.

I'm just a guy who lives life the best he can, provide for his family and happens to ride motorcycles and teaches martial arts.

Mike


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## tinker1 (Jun 22, 2011)

NICE looking rides.
Funny... the pic at the top, the road looks a lot like Highway 1 along the California coast.
Keep it rubber side down.


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## Aikicomp (Jun 22, 2011)

seasoned said:


> Motorcycles are scary, and I don't ride for that reason. Side note, *I would rather spar a biker, then be one*.


 
Rather spar a biker (if you're talking about clubs and 1%'s)? Hope that was a joke.

I know a few bikers I'd NEVER want to tangle with unless I had absolutely no other choice. Most make badgers look like kittens. 

Very dangerous people and unpredictable as well.


Mike


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## searcher (Jun 22, 2011)

I guess you could count me in with the bikers, but I am first and foremost a martial artist.     I do not ride on the street very often and the vast majority of my riding has been off-road(motocross, hare scrambles, trail rides,....).


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## Supra Vijai (Jun 23, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> I recall way back when that if you were studying martial arts, people assumed you thought you were a bad ***.. they would feel threatened - even though you would do nothing to make them feel that way...



It's the same with tattoos as well. Until very recently when shows like Miami Ink made tattoos socially acceptable and seen as art, people with tattoos were generally surrounded by stigma. Even now, with the changing culture, I wouldn't turn up to a corporate type job interview with exposed tattoos as it doesn't portray a "professional image". Guess as a society, perception plays quite a big role and that perception is not always entirely accurate


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## jthomas1600 (Jun 23, 2011)

I have an 07 sportster that I don't get to ride as often as I'd like. Like others have said here, I'm not really either a biker or a martial artist. I think my identity is mostly defined by being a husband (17 years with the same beautiful woman), a father, and my occupation as an offshore supply vessel captain. Things like marital arts and riding just sort of round out the profile.


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## tinker1 (Jun 23, 2011)

Aikicomp said:


> Rather spar a biker (if you're talking about clubs and 1%'s)? Hope that was a joke.
> 
> I know a few bikers I'd NEVER want to tangle with unless I had absolutely no other choice. Most make badgers look like kittens.
> 
> ...




As the (somewhat) famous biker saying goes :

_"Treat me good and I'll treat you better.  
Treat me bad and I'll treat you worse."_

Something to remember when around 1%ers.


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## Supra Vijai (Jun 23, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> As the (somewhat) famous biker saying goes :
> 
> _"Treat me good and I'll treat you better.
> Treat me bad and I'll treat you worse."_
> ...



Just as applicable to any member or group of society


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## stone_dragone (Jun 23, 2011)

I am a biker and I am a martial artist. I've been training and studying martial arts since I was 14 (pre-dating my driver's license). I've been consistently riding a motorcycle since graduating college, but rode mini-bikes as a kid and dirt bikes a little older.

For further background (not to get on a soap box), I'm a founding brother and officer for the San Antonio chapter of the Iron Order MC . The Iron Order MC is the third largest MC in the world and the largest non-1% MC in the world with 120 chapters in 39 states and 7 countries. We are a totally independent (not a member of COC, NCOC, AMA or any other "sanctioning body") traditional (men only, 3-piece patch, 1950's-60's style bylaws) MC and totally law-abiding (well, except for speeding, and sometimes helmet laws...) We're not a LEMC ("Cop club") or a military/veteran MC, although we do have plenty of police officers and current and former military as brothers. We are a brotherhood that loves to ride hard, play harder and enjoy that brotherhood.



tinker1 said:


> My current ride is a 2011 Harley Davidson Street Bob, denim black + apes.


 
Love the black denim. Mine's an '09. Looks classic and makes the chrome gleam all the more...or at least it would if I washed it more... I'll see if I remember to post a pic.



tinker1 said:


> I think being a martial artist indicates a certain mental / spiritual strength, and a resolve (indomitable spirit as we say in TKD circles).


 
Understanding resolve and indomintable spririt takes on a whole new meaning when you are forced to stand toe to toe with a group of 1%ers that take offense that you didn't ask for their "permission" to do what is your constitutional (in the US, any way) right to do while they "bravely" outnumber you 5:1 (or more). What truly takes mental and spiritual strength is understanding that although violence is easy at that time, standing firm while staying professional (most times, any way...) without choosing violence unless it is chosen for you.



tinker1 said:


> Being a biker indicates a sense of adventure... but also a feeling of being outside of the rest of society. 1%ers usually define "outlaw" not as one who breaks the law, but one that lives outside it.


 
For many, *but certainly not all*, this "outside the law" includes illegal and immoral revenue streams related to drugs, prostitution, child pronography, gun-running, etc. Many aslo solve arguments with other clubs that they don't approve of by blowing up their houses, cars, and ambushing them 5-10:1 or running them off the road in rented u-haul trucks and using those terroristic tactics to intimidate other groups that want to organize and ride together.

The term 1%er refers to the vast *minority* of bikers that participate in those activites. I don't know what the actual % is, but it's pretty close. Even many who identify themselves as 1%er don't use those tactics. Just like any large group of folks, you have the small number of "radicals" that try to impose their will on others though fear of violence and actual violence.

All that being said...here's my bike...damn lucky I remembered!


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## tinker1 (Jun 23, 2011)

stone_dragone said:


> I am a biker and I am a martial artist. I've been training and studying martial arts since I was 14 (pre-dating my driver's license). I've been consistently riding a motorcycle since graduating college, but rode mini-bikes as a kid and dirt bikes a little older.


I started my martial art training at 5 years of age.  My father was a biker, and (I was told) that I took my first ride on his bike when I was only a few days old (strapped between my mother and father.  I got my motorcycle license when I was 16. 



stone_dragone said:


> For further background (not to get on a soap box), I'm a founding brother and officer for the San Antonio chapter of the Iron Order MC . The Iron Order MC is the third largest MC in the world and the largest non-1% MC in the world with 120 chapters in 39 states and 7 countries. We are a totally independent (not a member of COC, NCOC, AMA or any other "sanctioning body") traditional (men only, 3-piece patch, 1950's-60's style bylaws) MC and totally law-abiding (well, except for speeding, and sometimes helmet laws...) We're not a LEMC ("Cop club") or a military/veteran MC, although we do have plenty of police officers and current and former military as brothers. We are a brotherhood that loves to ride hard, play harder and enjoy that brotherhood.


Good for you!



stone_dragone said:


> Love the black denim. Mine's an '09. Looks classic and makes the chrome gleam all the more...or at least it would if I washed it more... I'll see if I remember to post a pic.


Here's mine.








stone_dragone said:


> Understanding resolve and indomintable spririt takes on a whole new meaning when you are forced to stand toe to toe with a group of 1%ers that take offense that you didn't ask for their "permission" to do what is your constitutional (in the US, any way) right to do while they "bravely" outnumber you 5:1 (or more). What truly takes mental and spiritual strength is understanding that although violence is easy at that time, standing firm while staying professional (most times, any way...) without choosing violence unless it is chosen for you.


I have never had any problems with guys from 1% MC's.  More trouble has come my way from "cowboy" types (cowboy bars) where if you get in a dust up with one, you quickly find out that pretty much everyone there is their cousin...



stone_dragone said:


> For many, *but certainly not all*, this "outside the law" includes illegal and immoral revenue streams related to drugs, prostitution, child pronography, gun-running, etc. Many aslo solve arguments with other clubs that they don't approve of by blowing up their houses, cars, and ambushing them 5-10:1 or running them off the road in rented u-haul trucks and using those terroristic tactics to intimidate other groups that want to organize and ride together.
> 
> The term 1%er refers to the vast *minority* of bikers that participate in those activites. I don't know what the actual % is, but it's pretty close. Even many who identify themselves as 1%er don't use those tactics. Just like any large group of folks, you have the small number of "radicals" that try to impose their will on others though fear of violence and actual violence.
> 
> All that being said...here's my bike...damn lucky I remembered!


Of the guys that I hang with that are in 1% MC's, all those things you talk about are REALLY frowned on.  ESPECIALLY the child porn thing you talk about.  Those guys will KILL anyone involved in that sort of stuff.

Out here, there have been several cops that have gotten caught with child porn... there has also been some (cops) accused of extortion, and shooting citizens with no justification.  At the same time, the local dominant 1% club - they're either running under the radar, or they're clean.

My opinion is that most people are caught up in the lore of the 1%er and have really no idea what the reality is.  People should know to NOT believe what you hear on "Gangland" or watch on "Sons of Anarchy" as that's all trash and lies - in my experience.

I heard a statistic once that I think is pretty true.  The statistic is that of ANY group of people.. be it 1%ers, LEO's, or the Clergy.. 10% of that group is up to no good.


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## stone_dragone (Jun 23, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> Here's mine. [pic deleted for size, and really, its right there  ]


 
LOVE those pipes!



tinker1 said:


> My opinion is that most people are caught up in the lore of the 1%er and have really no idea what the reality is. People should know to NOT believe what you hear on "Gangland" or watch on "Sons of Anarchy" as that's all trash and lies - in my experience.
> 
> I heard a statistic once that I think is pretty true. The statistic is that of ANY group of people.. be it 1%ers, LEO's, or the Clergy.. 10% of that group is up to no good.


 
I've never watched Sons of Anarchy and only occasionally watched Gangland on A&E, so I can't really comment on their content. As for the stuff that I listed, either I or a close brother have witnessed or been the target of these attacks or recieved threats of the same. Shows like SoA and Gangland only feed the fear, adding to the effectiveness of the threats. Truth be told, many of these situations only had to happen once for the threat of doing it again to be effective. Bikers on both sides of the fence know that stuff like that escalates quickly and that's never any good for anyone, but there's always that threat.

As for the stat...damn right. As a platoon leader and a company commander, I always had to spend 90% of my time on 10% of the organization that were **** heads.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 23, 2011)

tinker1 said:


> I see from a few of the pictures at the top of the main forum page, that some here are bikers.
> 
> What do you ride?
> How long have you been riding?
> Do you consider yourself to be a biker or a martial artist?


 
I currently ride a 2008 Harley Road King. I used to ride a Honda 1100 Sabre.
I rode as a kid mostly dirt bikes and then stopped (* not sure why *) and picked it back up in 2002 time frame. 

Do I consider myself to be a biker or a martial artist? Yes and No. 

Yes as I do both, but I also am , ... (* fill in many other things here *) , that one could define or put limitations upon. Oh yes and I work with requirements and like Logic if you could not tell.


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## Sensei Payne (Jun 23, 2011)

I want a Honda Shadow bad...


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## Indagator (Jun 24, 2011)

jthomas1600 said:


> Things like *marital* arts and riding just sort of round out the profile.


 
Hur hur hur chuckle chuckle

JKS, couldn't resist lol.

To Stone Dragone:
Um, I have never EVER encountered any 1% club, not one single time ever in my puff, that even remotely tolerates child porn, child molesters or any such related thing. Keep in mind that in many areas out there on the road, the codes of the "Big 4" are pretty much law, and all of the other clubs I have seen tend to adopt the same or similar codes. Included in that is the exclusion of any child-molesters from ever joining - and the rare few that I have ever known of being caught out at that sort of nonsense whilst being club members... you don't wanna know...


It is certainly true that many 1%ers are involved with drugs and violence, it is pretty much entwined with that scene, but the media do sensationalise anything they can with that sort of thing and there are always two sides to any story. I'm not sticking up for them - for starters they don't really need anybody do, or want anybody to in many cases - but just pointing out. The places and society I grew up through, I could've very easily taken that or other very similar roads.


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## stone_dragone (Jun 24, 2011)

Indagator said:


> Hur hur hur chuckle chuckle
> 
> It is certainly true that many 1%ers are involved with drugs and violence, it is pretty much entwined with that scene, but the media do sensationalise anything they can with that sort of thing and there are always two sides to any story. I'm not sticking up for them - for starters they don't really need anybody do, or want anybody to in many cases - but just pointing out. The places and society I grew up through, I could've very easily taken that or other very similar roads.



I I'm right there with you on this.  One thing that I could have emphasized more is that those who do any (or all) of the above are rare.  Their scarcity makes them no less dangerous, in fact quite to the contrary. And I also agree that media sensationalism is the major cause for bikers having the bad name that they once had and, in some places, still have.  Fortunately, the things that I love are becoming far more mainstream...tattoos, motorcycles, etc


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## Jenna (Jun 24, 2011)

It is fantastic to see a few pictures here. AC - that is a mean looking piece of kit!  More pictures please yalls


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## tinker1 (Jun 24, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *jthomas1600*
> 
> 
> _Things like *marital* arts and riding just sort of round out the profile._


I believe that some things define us.  That there are things we DO, and other things we ARE.

There are a lot of things I do or have done.  Other things have either been part of my life experience for as long as I can remember,  AND / OR , the experience of achieving them was for me a life altering experience.

Of these things that define me are martial arts and being a biker.  That's probably in order of priority.  If I were to stop training tomorrow, and never ride my motorcycle again, I would still be a martial artist and a biker for the rest of my life.  This is because these activities are not just something I do, but are a part of my persona.

Edited to add:

I think this may be a difference that I see between myself, and those who see martial arts as a sport.


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## SoothSayer (Aug 6, 2011)

Stone Dragon Said: We are a totally independent (not a member of COC, NCOC, AMA or any other "sanctioning body") traditional (men only, 3-piece patch, 1950's-60's style bylaws) MC and totally law-abiding (well, except for speeding, and sometimes helmet laws...) 

So by that logic there is nothing stopping me from founding my Martial Arts School: "Tae Kwon Judoitsu"; get some others to play along; I'll buy myself a black belt with 19 stripes, since I'm the Grand Master and inventor of the discipline.  We'll set up shop in a failing strip mall, practice regularly and demand that the other schools respect us.  We'll enter tournaments an expect that our ranks will be recognized by the people we have made ourselves peers to. It's a free country and there's no law stating I can't invent a Martial Arts Discipline.

Would the Martial Arts community take me seriously?

I could go buy a really cool US Army Cavalry hat or a green beret. Just found one on Ebay! Wear it proudly around town. First ammendment! I can wear what I want.
(And no, it's not "theft of valor")

Will it mean as much? Isn't the truest offense in that the INSULT my wearing that hat would be to those who earned it? 

Would you look me in the eye and respect me when I just went out and BOUGHT something you earned?

Cultures each have their paradigms, expectations and even rules.  I am not a 1%er, my club is not a 1% club or a three piece patch, or a "support club" for a bigger club. But I attend the CoC meetings with those people, they look me in the eye and respect me and my club.  Because we earn that respect by learning the culture's protocol, behaving as expected and respecting the traditional rules of the MC community.  You and your "club" did not. Do you really expect the MC Community to respect you?

The White Belts don't run the Dojang.

The Privates don't run the Army.

The Freshmen don't decide the prom theme.

Want respect? Grow into it.


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## Supra Vijai (Aug 6, 2011)

SoothSayer said:


> Stone Dragon Said: We are a totally independent (not a member of COC, NCOC, AMA or any other "sanctioning body") traditional (men only, 3-piece patch, 1950's-60's style bylaws) MC and totally law-abiding (well, except for speeding, and sometimes helmet laws...)
> 
> So by that logic there is nothing stopping me from founding my Martial Arts School: "Tae Kwon Judoitsu"; get some others to play along; I'll buy myself a black belt with 19 stripes, since I'm the Grand Master and inventor of the discipline.  We'll set up shop in a failing strip mall, practice regularly and demand that the other schools respect us.  We'll enter tournaments an expect that our ranks will be recognized by the people we have made ourselves peers to. It's a free country and there's no law stating I can't invent a Martial Arts Discipline.
> 
> ...



Wow... tad aggressive there mate!


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## SoothSayer (Aug 7, 2011)

Supra Vijai said:


> Wow... tad aggressive there mate!



I'll admit to being passionate. I apologize if that comes off as agression.

I am an aspiring Martial Artist, 1st Dan, Tae Kwon Do, but outside of family, nothing defines me more than being a biker.

I recently met a few members of the Iron Order and thought they were 'good dudes' respectable, and a welcome addition to the MC community.  Then I did a little research.  Found their website to contain arrogant and sanctimonious statements. Combine that with their recent (last week) 'situation' with another motorcycle club in town, and my opinion is GREATLY changed.  Guess I even feel a little let down to find out that rather than kindred spirits, perhaps 'brothers' in a way, they are not someone I should associate with.  I wouldn't want people to think I'm their friend.

Dissappointing to say the least.


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## Twin Fist (Aug 7, 2011)

in my experience , the only people that have a problem with the IO guys are 1% clubs and thier support clubs.

now i WILL get on a soapbox. I am an officer in a AMA, non-outlaw club.Prob the biggest MC in Texas.

it chaps my *** that the 4-10 outlaw clubs still think this is 1970 and they still make the rules.

they dont

here it is the bandits and you know what? the bandits can kiss my butt. Trying to tell people what kind of patch to wear, trying to extort money thorugh the COC, (and thats all the COC is, a money making front for the outlaws) 

screw that

the IO wants to start up thier own club, and spread out? cool. Dont be jerks and it will all be good.

exactly what is your problem with the IO?


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## SoothSayer (Aug 8, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> ...in my experience , the only people that have a problem with the IO guys are 1% clubs and thier support clubs.
> 
> ...exactly what is your problem with the IO?



Please read my previous posts. I'm not a 1%er or a member of a support club. 

It's 2011: tradition, honor, and protocol should still matter. In my experience, most martial artists feel the same way. We find a common ground on which to respect one another's different traditions and construct a community wherein we can interact with honor. WTF, ATF, USNTF, IKF, WAMMA... isn't that what they're for?

Your statement about the CoC is uninformed, sorry. If you were to join, the treasurer SHOULD be willing to completely disclose all the financial records. If they weren't; THEN worry. (That's why I pulled my kid from scouts... another story)

The AMA is a fine organization, good "sanctioning body", we/I left the AMA over divergent opinions regarding helmet use. If you're an AMA club, you MUST require participants in your AMA sanctioned run to wear helmets. AMA is concerned over litigation. I've digressed...

"The IO wants to start up thier own club, and spread out? cool. Dont be jerks and it will all be good." - You and I are in TOTAL AGREEMENT on that point.


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## Twin Fist (Aug 8, 2011)

Texas isnt a mandatory helmet state, so we dont make people things that the law doesnt require.

The CoC was started by outlaws, and funny thing, they DEMAND money and DEMAND that you join the CoC

money making front, IMO

As to the IO, new martial arts are started all the time, so new MC's is fine by me. the IO follows the classic rules, (no women) and polices thier members behavior. I only know one IO guy, but he's cool. So, untill i have a bad experience with them, they are cool in my book. The fact they are new doesnt bother me, and the fact they thumb thier noses at the outlaws is just fine by me too.


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## SuperFLY (Aug 10, 2011)

I know I'm new here but I'm gonna try to get the topic back on track 

*What do you ride?*
2003 Honda FireBlade CBR900RR (954)





1997 Honda CBR600FV steelie trackbike





me on a CBR600RR on a race school day (no 23)





*How long have you been riding? *
about 2.5yrs

*Do you consider yourself to be a biker or a martial artist?                 *
rather random question.. are you only allowed to be both if you've kicked someones wing mirror off as you go past for cutting you off? 


biking's great; love it!


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## Twin Fist (Aug 10, 2011)

thats a pretty bike. I am not a crotch rocket fan myself, but thats a nice looking scoot


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