# Too funny!



## Seig (Oct 16, 2002)

The following came from the forums section of this website:
http://http://www.internationalkenpofellowship.com/Main.html
Posts below 
G Maughan 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer some of your posts below, yes it is true, I have recently been promoted to the rank of 11th Degree Kenpo Black belt by a panel from Atlantic City's Martial Arts, Boxing and Athletics community. 
The panel consisted of 6 individuals, 2 which were from Black Belt Magazine. Chuck Norris my honorary brother, members of the CIA and the Artist formerly known as Prince also guested at this grading, so those who doubt its merit or authenticity can be under no illusions, this was a real test which involved the complete syllabus from my Kenpo system and also the many innovations to the system (directional harmony, contact manipulation, double factors ETC ETC) I created which Ed Parker himself commented on. Â 
On the note below, I would have liked my old Kenpo partner, Mr Tatum (a fellow 10th Dan) to have attended too as it would have reminded me of the times we spent 8-10 hours a day practicing in his house which was of great benefit to both him and me.
Those who say I have been awarding myself belts are mistaken for whatever reasons, most likely their own. Â I will not comment on this scurrilous accusation from small minded part timers.
In the spirit of kempo
Senior Grandmaster of the arts GMaughan, 11th Degree black belt


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## brianhunter (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *The following came from the forums section of this website:
> http://http://www.internationalkenpofellowship.com/Main.html
> ...



This can't be serious? I hope its not.....I wonder how much the artist formerly known as prince charges for an 11th dan test? Is he available for seminars or lectures? Ill bet his martial arts knowledge is astounding! (please detect the hint of sarcasm) Can someone be my honorary brother? I hear Chuck Norris is taken?!?!?!?


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## jeffkyle (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *This can't be serious? I hope its not.....I wonder how much the artist formerly known as prince charges for an 11th dan test? Is he available for seminars or lectures? Ill bet his martial arts knowledge is astounding! (please detect the hint of sarcasm) Can someone be my honorary brother? I hear Chuck Norris is taken?!?!?!? *




I am here for you man.  Now let's all sing Kumbya!


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## Kirk (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *This can't be serious? I hope its not.....I wonder how much the artist formerly known as prince charges for an 11th dan test? Is he available for seminars or lectures? Ill bet his martial arts knowledge is astounding! (please detect the hint of sarcasm) Can someone be my honorary brother? I hear Chuck Norris is taken?!?!?!? *



ROFLMAO!!!!!!   :rofl: :rofl:   That's "Senior Grandmaster Artist 
Formerly Known As Prince" ! LOLOLOL


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## brianhunter (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> 
> *I am here for you man.  Now let's all sing Kumbya! *



Yeah but only if my wife will watch the kids for an hour or two HAHAHAHAHAHHA


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## TkdWarrior (Oct 16, 2002)

hmm i m still prince...
-TkdWarrior-


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## Kirk (Oct 16, 2002)

Master George Alexander Maughan

Combat Magazine Hall of fame Award 1999.   The 25th. Combat Awards were held in the Aston Villa Hoite Suite in the Aston Villa grounds in Birmingham on the 23rd. October 1999.  Master Maughan became the first Master in the world to receive the Combat Magazine Hall of Fame award in Kenpo Karate. 

September 2000  
WORLD HEAD OF FAMILY SOKESHIP COUNCIL 
Master George Alexander Maughan Becomes Millennium Grandmaster Of The Year 
Held In Radisson Hotel Universal Orlando September 1st-2nd, 2000 


November 2000 
THE EASTERN U.S.A. INTERNATIONAL MARTIAL ARTS ASSOCIATION, 
THE INTERNATIONAL BLACK BELT HALL OF FAME 
Master George Alexander Maughan Is Awarded The Pioneer Award 
Held In The Pittburgh International Airport Holiday Inn Hotel In Pittsburgh, Pennsyvania On November 3rd 4th &5th.


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## Kirk (Oct 16, 2002)

2002 11TH Supreme Grand Poobah Black Belt :rofl:


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## brianhunter (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Master George Alexander Maughan
> 
> ...




Thats odd considering I have never even heard of the guy?!?!?!? Sounds like he like to visit hotels wonder if he has or ever had a school....But of course if the artist formely known as prince sat in on his promotion along with someone from the CIA who am I to argue with that kind of validation!!!:shrug:


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## Michael Billings (Oct 16, 2002)

An 11th yet.  The 11th hour has arrived ... hopefully not for Kenpo, just for him.


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *This can't be serious? I hope its not.....I wonder how much the artist formerly known as prince charges for an 11th dan test? Is he available for seminars or lectures? Ill bet his martial arts knowledge is astounding! (please detect the hint of sarcasm) Can someone be my honorary brother? I hear Chuck Norris is taken?!?!?!? *



You can have prince sit on your black belt board too...  CLICK HERE to view his official web site!


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## brianhunter (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *You can have prince sit on your black belt board too...  CLICK HERE to view his official web site! *



OMG Billy you are killing me!!!!!!!!! I cant stop laughing!! He didnt have a martial arts link on his site though maybe you should email him!


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## jeffkyle (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *You can have prince sit on your black belt board too...  CLICK HERE to view his official web site! *



That doesn't look like much of a "prince" to me... More like a princess???


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## jleonardusa (Oct 16, 2002)

Hi all,

Being the moderator on the fellowship forum that was posted on, I had to find out if it was true, and supposedly it is. The guy has donned an "11th" (hard to type without being sarcastic).

Kenpo first arrived in Europe in the late 60's with Mr John McSweeny, when he travelled to Dublin to study. Mr Maughan received his Black belt in the early 80's (84 I believe) from Mr James Rice (Who I think is now a 7th.)  He was graded to 6th about 6 years ago by Mr Tatum, but since then has mysteriously been awarded all his grades from someone (perhaps that same Atlantic city panel with Prince and the CIA guys who are actually senior ranking Kenpo blackbelts (remember Elvis? See !) *SARCASM*) till last year when he was suddenly a 10th.

Now it appears he is an 11th. Hmmm....new rank in my books.  He has obviously caused a lot of annoyance and ruffled feathers in Ireland where he claims he is the "Senior Grandmaster" of the arts. What I find so tough to believe is that someone would have the audacity to claim such a thing. I dont think there is any way to be more disrespectful to Mr Parker (and his family), all the other 10th degrees out there (and the 9th, 8th and 7th degrees), and to his own instructor. 

Making a buck is one thing, but to do something like that in my mind is just foolish/idiotic/disrespectful. He has pretty much been ostracized from the Irish Kenpo community (and I dont think anyone will argue - rightly so) but has caused a lot of damage in a community that is trying to heal rifts and displace anger and rivalry that has developed over the years since Mr Parkers death.

The fellowship (www.internationalkenpofellowship.com) has been trying hard over the past year to develop an international "community" where Kenpoists can thrive, get to know each other etc. (Check the site out if you get a chance) 
Who knows, maybe this will help to gel people together that bit faster!

I still find it tough to think that someone would think its cool to wear an 11th! 

Anyway, that was to just give a little background on the subject of that link. (Can anyone tell from my post that it pis**s me off ! ! !  )

In the Spirit of Kenpo
James Leonard


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## Les (Oct 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> 
> *That doesn't look like much of a "prince" to me... More like a princess??? *



hey...

Us real princesses object to that comment  
 

Les


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## Zoran (Oct 17, 2002)

In the near future, people will have to wear black belts that hang down to their ankles, so you can fit all the stripes. Of course, that could make you more prone to triping and falling flat on your face.
:asian:


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## Seig (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jleonardusa _
> 
> *Hi all,
> 
> ...


I'm stunned, i thought it was a joke.......:barf:


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 17, 2002)

Plain and simple CRAPOLA.........:fart: Bull$hit Royale.   American Kenpo it is not.  If so I have a "board" that wants to grade him........:hammer: 

The Emperor 
:moon:


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## jeffkyle (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Plain and simple CRAPOLA.........:fart: Bull$hit Royale.   American Kenpo it is not.  If so I have a "board" that wants to grade him........:hammer:
> 
> ...




Does that board consist of 2X4 members???


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## tarabos (Oct 17, 2002)

i do have to admit...i'd love to see a pic of this guy wearing the 11th. maybe the bars are red sequesce (sp?) now and sparkle in the light as he graces you with his presence...making his techniques truly the "flashiest"


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## Brother John (Oct 17, 2002)

> Can someone be my honorary brother? I hear Chuck Norris is taken?!?!?!?



What am I? Chopped liver???
No, I'm...
Your Brother
John
:cheers:


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## ProfessorKenpo (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> 
> *Does that board consist of 2X4 members??? *



I'd like to see how he does and a couple of guys named Smith & Wesson, or maybe Walther or Glock.    Seems he needs an eye opening, too bads guns are so illegal in England.    Wonder how he would test in front of the Louisville Slugger board LOL?


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## ProfessorKenpo (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> 
> *i do have to admit...i'd love to see a pic of this guy wearing the 11th. maybe the bars are red sequesce (sp?) now and sparkle in the light as he graces you with his presence...making his techniques truly the "flashiest" *



Now that's an Idea I may have to implement to go with my Pink Gi (BTW it's sequins) LOL.    Viva La Kenpo!!!!!!!!!!

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _*
> Does that board consist of 2X4 members???
> *


yes, as well as a couple of 4 x 4 members and 2 x 12 members, and .............  what else "wood" you expect?

I know I'm "knotty" but...... this is a serious claim!

With a "panel" like this who knows...........

I looked into his background and now realize that he is only the head of a "splinter" group.....

I think his "bark" is much worse than his bite......

Be curious to see if his "Family Tree Roots" go back to a sewer.....

I hope he doesn't hope to "branch out"......

I guess he "pined" to be the highest, If we take it away, I'm sure he'd "balsam"........

If John Wayne were here, he'd Belt 'em!

:toilclaw:


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## Kirk (Oct 17, 2002)

Somebody get me a box of tomatoes!!!  :rofl: :rofl:


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## brianhunter (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Brother John _
> 
> *What am I? Chopped liver???
> No, I'm...
> ...



Sure you can be my honorary brother, Jeff is already but he wouldnt get along with the artist formerly known as prince on a promotion board

heres a thought maybe Michael Jackson and bubbles will be available for his promotion to 12th!!.......


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## headkick (Oct 17, 2002)

http://indigo.ie/~maughan/index.htm

I leave comments as an exercise for the reader...


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## jleonardusa (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> 
> *I'd like to see how he does and a couple of guys named Smith & Wesson, or maybe Walther or Glock.    Seems he needs an eye opening, too bads guns are so illegal in England.    Wonder how he would test in front of the Louisville Slugger board LOL?
> 
> ...



(Pssst....Clyde.....the OTHER little Island accross the big pond ! !  )

Believe me there are plenty of guys in Ireland that Im sure have mini lumbar yards at the ready ! ! !

Ahh well, some people will just never get it.

When are ya back in town Clyde? (Always love those saturday morning hell sessions !!!! )  

In the Spirit of Kenpo

James


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## jeffkyle (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> 
> *Now that's an Idea I may have to implement to go with my Pink Gi (BTW it's sequins) LOL.    Viva La Kenpo!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...




Is that somewhere closely related to Fuchsia or how about Mauve?


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## tarabos (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by headkick _
> 
> *http://indigo.ie/~maughan/index.htm
> 
> I leave comments as an exercise for the reader... *



 i watched his videos...no comment. all i will say is i was dissapointed that he wasn't wearing the illustrious 11th degree black belt...oh well


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## satans.barber (Oct 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> 
> *too bads guns are so illegal in England.*



I hope you're joking Clyde, if not I'm going to start ranting!

With regards to, um, Senior Senior Grandmaster Maughan, I too thought that the posting was a joke, and am shocked that it isn't. I'd found his site and grabbed the videos during my big kenpo video-clip-download-fest, and to be honest I thought he looked pretty good.

The 11th Dan thing though, whilst not discrediting his skill directly, discredits him as a member of the art no end. 

It' downright disrespectful really...

Ian.



...are you lot sure it's not a joke, I mean...Prince FFS?


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## Seig (Oct 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Somebody get me a box of tomatoes!!!  :rofl: :rofl: *


I have some but they are not sufficiently rotten!:rofl:


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## Seig (Oct 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by headkick _
> 
> *http://indigo.ie/~maughan/index.htm
> 
> I leave comments as an exercise for the reader... *


Oh for Pity's sake, I have purple belts that move better than that!


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## Chronuss (Oct 18, 2002)

if I ever tried to do that with a pair of chucks my head would roll off...  then Tess would have to redraw me.


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## C.E.Jackson (Oct 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *yes, as well as a couple of 4 x 4 members and 2 x 12 members, and .............  what else "wood" you expect?
> 
> ...



:rofl: 
Stop it your killing me!!!
I wonder what PC Wood has to say about it?


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## M F (Oct 23, 2002)

Sorry for going off-topic with my first post, but I need to ask something. 
_originally posted by satans.barber_ 


> quote: Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo





> I hope you're joking Clyde, if not I'm going to start ranting!


SB, what are you going to rant about?  I don't think Clyde is joking, at least about the "too bad guns are so illegal" part.

Oh, and by the way, this 11th degree thing is just funny if you ask me.


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## satans.barber (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by M F _
> 
> *Sorry for going off-topic with my first post, but I need to ask something.
> originally posted by satans.barber
> ...



Oh dear.

OK, because we don't have a gun culture, we also don't have gun related violence (well, obviously there are the odd things that happen but it's not on a day to day basis), if someone is shot here then it's a big deal.

You seriously think that that is a shame? You'd rather have it like America where any kid can go buy a gun and then shoot classmates with it? Or where policemen approach car windows and then get shot in the chest for doing there job? Or, for that matter, where criminals are often shot back by the police, because of the threat they pose when armed with guns?

No, I don't think it's a 'shame' that "guns are so illegal in Britain", I think I'd like it to stay just as it is thankyou.

What Clyde said was blatantly ridiculous, I hope or your sake that he was joking.

Ian.


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## Kirk (Oct 23, 2002)

What are the statistics for knife attacks in Britain vs. the U.S.?
I hear it's considerably higher than the U.S., as well as club 
attacks.  If someone's intent on killing me, I personally would 
rather go out via a gun shot, than being bludgeoned to death,
or stabbed repeatedly while I sleep.  

Our country established itself because militias of the time were 
armed, and able to take on it's mother country's attacks when
sovereignty (sp?) became an issue.  VERY recently, the Philipines
were able to stage a coup against a tyranical leader, and take
their country over.  They did it in one day, through the use of
fire power, and have since become a prosperous nation.  In
China, where guns are also illegal, a large group of UNARMED 
protesters were fired upon and many killed, simply because they 
were PEACEFULLY protesting (someone help me on the spelling 
Tienamen Square).  


Sure guns have caused problems ... but I'll take those problems
over the possible problems that can exist without the freedom
to pack.


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## brianhunter (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *Oh dear.
> 
> ...



As a police officer I can tell you that yes guns CAN be a scary thing, as can knives, broken bottles, clubs, anything. Places like Texas that allow its citizens to conceal and carry fire arms legally crime rates actually drop.

What about the success rate down under? The Aussies are having a horrible time now because guess what? Criminals robbing a bank really arent too concerned with the legality of a firearm.

The reason we have a "gun culture" as you put it is the majority of our founding fathers felt the need to extend this right to its citizens to protect themselves from an oppressive government and evil people.
Have you seen a home invasion? Have you witnessed the crime scene after the fact? they don't use guns the majority of the time. 

A few heinous a$$holes took boxcutters and killed thousands of people in new york a year ago should we outlaw box cutters now? Evil people will do evil things and find the means to accomplish it.

Clyde wasn't joking, and I think Clydes comment was dead right.


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## jeffkyle (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *As a police officer I can tell you that yes guns CAN be a scary thing, as can knives, broken bottles, clubs, anything. Places like Texas that allow its citizens to conceal and carry fire arms legally crime rates actually drop.
> 
> ...



Happening in Florida.  When they made conceal Carry legal....the first time someone tried to rob a bank, and they came out of the door to about half a dozen citizens pointing guns at him, he quickly changed his mind.  Shortly after it was legalized the crime rate dropped drastically.
Would any of you want to rob someone or attack someone, if you knew they could possible have a gun on them and shoot you, legally?

Also I have a story about My dad and a gun.  He was driving down the street one day, minding his own business as a 50 year old man would do, and a car load of kids, 4 or 5,  pulled up next to him.  They were giving him evil looks and such and they started talking trash to him.  He simply reached over and grabbed his pistol and pointed it in their direction.  He said they couldn't get away from him fast enough...they took off like you wouldn't believe.  Another trouble situation averted.  
On a side note: Since conceal Carry isn't legal in Kansas (yet), I will deny till the day I die that this story ever took place in a court of law, just to protect my father!


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## SingingTiger (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> 
> *...They were giving him evil looks and such and they started talking trash to him.  He simply reached over and grabbed his pistol and pointed it in their direction.  He said they couldn't get away from him fast enough...they took off like you wouldn't believe.  Another trouble situation averted.*



I don't want to get into yet another debate about gun control, but as the "kids" (and I assume you mean teens and/or twenty-somethings, not 8- and 9-year-olds) were only "talking trash" and not actively threatening him with weapons and/or bodily harm, couldn't the "trouble situation" have been as easily averted by ignoring them?  Since he made the first move to threaten _them_, one of them could have stealthily pulled out his own gun and shot your father, and the action would have easily been defended in court.

A wise man once said, "your favorite word in the English language should be EXIT."  (The context refers to armed opponents, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary, assuming an opponent is armed is usually a good strategy, and, in my opinion, the advice is pretty darned good even when your opponent is unarmed.)

Rich


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## jeffkyle (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SingingTiger _
> 
> *I don't want to get into yet another debate about gun control, but as the "kids" (and I assume you mean teens and/or twenty-somethings, not 8- and 9-year-olds) were only "talking trash" and not actively threatening him with weapons and/or bodily harm, couldn't the "trouble situation" have been as easily averted by ignoring them?  Since he made the first move to threaten them, one of them could have stealthily pulled out his own gun and shot your father, and the action would have easily been defended in court.
> 
> ...



I left that part out, on accident.  Yes it was teenagers and even possibly gang members.  MY father is not one who looks for trouble, but he is a good fighter and he knows it.  There aren't many people that he has came across that he wasn't confident he couldn't at least hurt real bad.  Since you have made me think about the story some more, i believe it was more than them just talking.  I think 1 or 2 of them was hanging out the car and at one point I believe they threw something at his vehicle.  He obviously thought it was getting out of control and that is why he did what he did.  I believe it was to diffuse the situation WAY before it got any worse, like them attempting to run him off the road, so they could do harm to him.  And obviously it wasn't too important to them to risk having possibly more harm to them than they could do to him.


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## satans.barber (Oct 23, 2002)

I absolutely am not going to agree with you people.

You'v been brought up with it, it's part of your culture...fair enough.

The American 'right to bear arms' is considered a joke by much of the civilised world, I don't think it's anything to be proud of.

Yes, your forefathers probably needed to carry guns, I mean, what else would they have shot all the Native Americans with?

Sorry, am I being cyncical now? Oh dear. I just don't find that a good excuse for the state of the gun culture in America.

I'm not anti-guns by the way, I own two myself, but they're not for shooting people with.

I'm not going to carry on with this thread because it's going to desend into a political **** slinging match very quickly, and I don't have the time, energy or inclination.

Ian.


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## brianhunter (Oct 23, 2002)

["I absolutely am not going to agree with you people."

That absolutely fine....you can disagree with someone and still like them. We also have this thing that comes up right before the right to bear arms in our constitution....its the freedom on speech (probably a joke to the rest of the civilised world as you would put it) But I enjoy having it also. We can agree to disagree.


["The American 'right to bear arms' is considered a joke by much [of the civilised world, I don't think it's anything to be proud of."

I do think its something to be proud of, I enjoy any freedom Im given and Im proud of each and every one. Some countries have told men they can or can't grow a beard, who must wear a yellow star of david when going out in public. I consider that more of a joke and a disservice to the human race. but then again this is the rest of the "civilised world" Im sure they knew what they where doing.

["Yes, your forefathers probably needed to carry guns, I mean, [what else would they have shot all the Native Americans with?"

Wow! Maybe some of our forefathers where the native americans? I know of at least one on this board that belongs to a tribe still. Im sure the Brittish quartering soldiers in our homes had nothing to do with it...they where so civilised they used sling shots and bubble gum to do it because they where so much higher on the civilised hiearchy chain. 

[Sorry, am I being cyncical now? Oh dear. I just don't find that a [good excuse for the state of the gun culture in America.

I think the term "gun culture" needs explaining. This sounds like a label and a media led sterotype to me. I know I believe everything I see on tv or in read in the news! You should too!

["I'm not anti-guns by the way, I own two myself, but they're not [for shooting people with."

So are you are saying ours are?? Is your gun labeled "wabbits only" or maybe "target practice only" How do I get one of those special guns of yours that you don't shoot people with! I know the one I take to work everyday always nails somebody before the end of the day.. it sure would be nice to find the non-people shooting version they must have sold to you

["I'm not going to carry on with this thread because it's going to [desend into a political **** slinging match very quickly, and I [don't have the time, energy or inclination."

okay  See you around


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## Zoran (Oct 23, 2002)

Many states have laws against carrying and owning guns. The problem is, criminals don't abide by the law.:shrug:


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## Kirk (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *["I absolutely am not going to agree with you people."
> 
> ...



Great points!  I don't feel the need to even add to it! :asian:


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## jeffkyle (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zoran _
> 
> *Many states have laws against carrying and owning guns. The problem is, criminals don't abide by the law.:shrug: *



And the other problem is that Criminals are EVERYWHERE!


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## Michael Billings (Oct 23, 2002)

I am pro concealed carry, yes I live in Texas, and no I have never shot anyone, or even pulled a gun on someone.  If I pulled it, it would be to save someone's life, or my own.  Reciprocity regarding concealed carry with other states, is on the rise, and it is true the violent crime rate is decreasing in Texas.    

Great responsibilities go with the power to take life.  As martial artists, I assume everyone on this board knows the potential lethality of Kenpo.  Remember "Acceptance" is the first environmental consideration.  The potential for harm, and protection, is in each of us.  

Not everyone should take martial arts, nor should everyone carry a gun.  I don't want to sound trite or condesending, but "people really do kill people ... not guns".  Other cultures may have a higher suicide rate (Japan) where feelings and giri (duty) are often in conflict.  Rather than externalize the feelings, like in our society, those feelings are turned inward, with tragic results.    

That being said, I disagree adamently about the US being a gun culture or a joke to the rest of the world, but I do not object to the personal opinion you hold, nor your right to express it.  Most cultures tend to be ethnocentric about their on mores and values.  America struggles with the experiment called democracy, but there are few places in the world where the standard of living, generally, equals this country's.  

On a final note, in the 21st Century it appears terrorism is on the rise.  If one passenger on any of the flights last year had a weapon, I venture to guess that at least one of the disasters we suffered would not have happened.  Terrorism appears to be the next evolution of conflict that touches all countries.  The UK has never been exempt from IRA, Middle Eastern, or Soviet Block countries attempts to disrupt or kill.  An armed society should be a polite society ... especially if you don't know whose face you are getting into.  Drugs, gangs, terrorism, etc. are our country's problems than need resolution - I won't discuss foriegn policy here, but most Americans are aware of the conflicts and difficulties that are inherant in the Anti-American sentiment prevelant in parts of the world.

Sorry, I did not want to rant, but my hackles stood up when we were identified as a "gun culture".  Civil obediance is not part of our culture, but civil enforcement of laws protecting all of us is.  This is a part of our culture to be proud of, not ashamed.  Let us be the ones to make it more so as Martial Artists leading by example.  

I feel that your post had been answered sufficiently, but the more I considered it, the more occured to me.  I apologize for offending, if I did ... and you seldom, if ever see me as any kind of apologist (you know, like the kind of guy who slams you right after apologizing in advance, then has a closing that is "respectful" in a condosending way.)   So I will just say "See ya later"

-Michael
UKS-Kenpo


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## Sigung86 (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *I absolutely am not going to agree with you people.
> 
> ...



Stiff upper British lip and all that, eh wot???  Superior English Metal, eh wot?  Throw a slam at a country and skip out , eh wot?

I suspect you're still upset that your German Mercenaries couldn't win the war for you ... oh when was it?  Oh yes ... back in the 1770s?  :lol: !

Your  almost close to the continent of Europe, second cousin to the French, superiority is shining through, eh wot?  :lol: :lol: :lol:

You aren't, perhaps, related to the late Princess Margaret are you? :lol:

Oh... I don't have time to get involved in a long discussion either.  :lol:

Most of the time, I really enjoy your posts, but sometimes you come across as a pompous, pseudo-superior wannabe, um ... um ... PUTZ!  :lol: 

And as you can see, mostly laughable at that.

Take care,

Dan


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## Brother John (Oct 23, 2002)

I usually like to read Ian's posts.
I don't believe that nation bashing belongs here though.
He's free to his thoughts and opinions, free to voice them and such. True...
we are free to click on the little option w/in the window of his Very negative attacks on the USA and click on "Report this post".
Just a thought...
I'd like to see Ian stick around, but I don't want to come to a martial arts forum just to be insulted and feel riled about someone badmouthing our country.
Your Brother (and Ian's)
John


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 23, 2002)

Please keep the discussion respectful.  We have members of many nations, etc here.

Thank you.
:asian:


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *Oh dear.
> 
> ...



What's the difference between throwing someone off the balcony and shooting them...? The size of the mess afterward...? People will kill with or without firearms. According to stories I've heard from the Parker family, Mr. Parker used to keep a gun in his car for a long time. Did that make him a potential criminal?


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## Sigung86 (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Please keep the discussion respectful.  We have members of many nations, etc here.
> 
> ...



Sorry Kaith... I will cease and desist.  I lived a number of years in England and actually have a love for the UK and a good number of close English friends.  I just didn't really think the pomposity and elitism should go unchided.  My apologies for any hurt feelings Ian, and to anyone else I may have offended.

Somedays you are the windshield, and somedays you are the bug!   

Dan


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## satans.barber (Oct 23, 2002)

/me sighs.

I knew this was going to happen.

People are skirting away from the issue here, as so often happens with these types of threads when people feel their national pride has been dented in some way.

Nutshell:

Clyde "It's a shame that guns are so illegal in the UK"
Me "I hope that was a joke"
Someone "Clyde wasn't joking"
Me "I don't think it's a bad thing, the fact that there's no gun culture* here means less gun related violence and killings."

* gun culture meaning the buying, selling , trading and use of guns for the purposes of crime, murder, house defense.....whatever.

Then, American pride kicks in:

You lot "It's good that we carry guns, our forefathers did it, we can shoot terrorists etc etc and by the way stop being so stuck up and British about it blah blah".

My point is simply this, you can't solve the gun problem (for those of you that will admit that there is a problem) by having MORE guns, that simply makes the situation worse. Since we don't have this problem, it could only be introduced by introducing guns, do you not see that?

Also, what do you mean if someone on the plane had had a gun then 9/11 wouldn't have happened...err, couldn't the terrorists just have walked on with guns then anyway? They were willing to die, so I doubt the thought of someone else plucking up courage to shoot them would have dissuaded them.

*Sigung,*

"Stiff upper British lip and all that, eh wot??? Superior English Metal, eh wot? Throw a slam at a country and skip out , eh wot?"

And you lot accuse /me/ of pandering to media stereotypes? 

"Your almost close to the continent of Europe"

Guess what bright spark, we're actually in Europe.

"sometimes you come across as a pompous, pseudo-superior wannabe"

Fancy, can you cite some examples cos I'm intrigued now. If you knew me you would never call me that, and if you asked any of my friends if I was 'pompous' they'd no doubt piss themselves laughing. What makes you say that? 

*Brother John,*

"we are free to click on the little option w/in the window of his Very negative attacks on the USA and click on "Report this post".
Just a thought..."

If you must, although I don't feel I've said anything wrong, nor infact anything *subjective* yet.

*Billy,*

"What's the difference between throwing someone off the balcony and shooting them...? The size of the mess afterward...? People will kill with or without firearms"

That simply isn't true, just look at the differences in murder rates between the countries with all the firearms and the ones without, there's a large deficit that people aren't striving to make up by throwing people off balconies.

Guns are too efficient, quick and versatile for that defecit to ever be met through deaths by physical violence.

*Mr. Hunter,*

"I know the one I take to work everyday always nails somebody before the end of the day"

What? You manage to either shoot or pistol whip someone every single day? British police officers don't carry firearms. 

We have armed response units of course, that are called when the need arises (rarely), but PC's walking the streets aren't armed. What's more, it's extremely rare that one is shot (I can't remember the last time I heard of such a thing), and complemetary to that, criminals are also extremely rarely shot by police. 

So I'm sure this is beneficial to the families of the British Constabulary, wouldn't you agree?

My father has been a police officer for 28 years, I'm sure he'd agree that arming the police wouldn't be a good idea. How many American police officers go through 28 years on the force without knowing at least one person at their station who gets killed? Maybe in the rural places of course, but I bet the 'city cops' don't.

*All,*

Listen, I honestly never set out to offend anyone (but then again if you can get offended when someone jokes about the amount of adverts on American cable TV, I guess it's really not that hard cough Clyde cough), as far as I'm concerned, you've all got the right to do what you want, in your own country.

I will not sit here though and have people saying that Britain wants arming to the teeth so we can all shoot each other, when at the moment it's pretty rare.

If you would like me to leave this forum, please ask and I shall simply go.

Ian.


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## M F (Oct 23, 2002)

> I'm not going to carry on with this thread because it's going to desend into a political **** slinging match very quickly, and I don't have the time, energy or inclination.



I really didn't intend for a political **** slinging match to happen.  I can respect your opinion, though I disagree with it very, very strongly.  I hope that you can do the same.  To me the bottom line is that if you Outlaw the ownership of guns by law abiding citizens you take away their equalizer when dealing with armed criminals.  Criminals, by definition, ignore the laws.  I would suggest that you look into the rates of gun related violence in England before the laws became so strict, and compare them to the rates as the laws are now.  I am pretty sure(although I can't quote stats) that gun violence has increased a lot.  I also believe that England is now the "violent crime capital" of the civilized world.  Whether this has any relation to the gun laws  is debatable, but I find this interesting.

Sorry for creating a flame-fest here guys.  That wasn't my intention at all.

Ian,
I don't think anyone wants you to leave.  I just wanted to hear why you thought it was good for guns to be illegal.  I absolutely did not want this to turn into a US vs England type of thing either.   I was hoping for a friendly debate or discussion.  Do us all a favor, and don't take any of this personally.  I'm resonably sure that many here enjoy your posts.  The few that I've read have been well thought out, and informative.  Stick around.  This topic won't be around that long.


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## Les (Oct 23, 2002)

I live in England. (I'm not English, but I live here)

Make no mistake, there is a gun culture here too.

Plenty of people in this country own firearms, both legally and illegally, and people do get shot here, quite often.

Les


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## brianhunter (Oct 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> */me sighs.
> 
> ...



Ian,
  Me and you normally get along I have no beef with you. But I think you know that that statement was sarcasim. You stated you dont have the people killing guns, implying that our guns are different. My statement was a direct play of sarcasim to that extent.
  God help me I have not had to draw my pistol in years. I pray everyday that I will not have too. I think you know me well enough to know the point I was trying to make.
  I think leaving the forum is drastic. you have alot to contribute and i value your opinion. I just honestly think you where way off base with the way you brough it.

See you in the forum.


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## Sigung86 (Oct 23, 2002)

Well Ian,

If you are unable to loosen up enough to accept an apology, then I guess perhaps my first concept of you is correct.  You are, apparently, your own best example of the stereotypical things I was talking about, but that is not necessarily a British paradigm, just what I said before, but on an individual level.

I could, actually, not care less if you stay or if you go.  I would not be so quick to engage in a popularity poll were I in your shoes.  Generally speaking, I don't see you as a value added, regardless of place of national origin.  As I said before, I have liked most of your posts, but your egocentricity and barely disguised sense of self-hallucinated, nationalistic superiority are irritating and detract from the overall voice of this forum ... Most particularly when you do not show any reticence in voicing them on an international  martial arts forum of this caliber, and most particularly with such obvious planned instigation.

The firearms were never the issue with me.  Your culture is different from mine, and there is no basis for even a logical disagreement.  As for us being a laughingstock of Europe.  Well ... That remains to be seen.   

Your culture and lifestyle are not mine.  I was simply trying to take the Mickey out on you, but feel, on second thought, that you are, perhaps, a legend in your own mind.  Apology hereby rescinded. 

Kaith, insofar as National Pride ... I am in the United States.  I am a proud American.  I have served both my country and the Ian's country militarily, as well as proudly and frankly, right about now, I've had about all the US bashing I feel like putting up with from someone I perceive as a second rate misrepresentation of his own country.  

If national pride is a factor in being banned from this forum, then please feel free to Ban away ...

Respectfully intended,

Dan Farmer


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## Kirk (Oct 23, 2002)

So you're saying that every post that disagreed with you was
pure American pride?  I saw a lot of valid, logical, opinionated
posts that had nothing to do with wounded pride.  

I'd also like to ask why you train in martial arts .. aren't you in
essence, arming yourself?


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## Cthulhu (Oct 23, 2002)

Since *nobody* could take the hint from Kaith's previous warning, this thread is now locked.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-


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