# jukken jutsu/gentle fist



## bigfootsquatch (Apr 18, 2007)

Has anyone heard of this style? I'm looking for information on it...anything will do. Thanks everyone.


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## MarkBarlow (Apr 19, 2007)

Jukendo is the use of the bayonet.  I'm afraid I haven't heard of Jukken Jutsu.
Is it possible that the spelling could be off?


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## pgsmith (Apr 19, 2007)

The only place that I've ever heard of Jukken is in the manga Naruto. I have never encountered any mention of it anywhere else, nor is it listed in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. Therefore, I have to conclude that it was invented for the manga and has no real counterpart.


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## bigfootsquatch (Apr 19, 2007)

Someone at the college I go to use to live in Japan and claimed to have learned that style(thats his spelling too). He said it was a lot of open handed strikes. I have never found any information about it, so it is probably misspelled or something he made up.


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## gentle fist style (juken) (Nov 30, 2007)

ok he was probably not truly educated in this style how ever  i am and its spelled juken. and yes its is alot of open handed strikes. it is also a style were the user attacks your pressure points.its basicly the opposite of inflicting exernal damage
( such as punches and kicks ) and instead it inflicts internal damage, damaging major internal organs ( if juken is used correctly. ) and those are just some of the things this style is capable of.


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## jks9199 (Dec 1, 2007)

gentle fist style (juken) said:


> ok he was probably not truly educated in this style how ever  i am and its spelled juken. and yes its is alot of open handed strikes. it is also a style were the user attacks your pressure points.its basicly the opposite of inflicting exernal damage
> ( such as punches and kicks ) and instead it inflicts internal damage, damaging major internal organs ( if juken is used correctly. ) and those are just some of the things this style is capable of.


Can you tell us more about juken jutsu?  Where'd it originate (I assume Japan...), and what's it "look" like?  Who are some of the teachers of the style?


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## Hinalan (Mar 14, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Can you tell us more about juken jutsu?  Where'd it originate (I assume Japan...), and what's it "look" like?  Who are some of the teachers of the style?


Yes you are right about how it works.  It is mainly used as an defence than attack.  Like the kaiten(rotation) it supposed to spin around with your energy blocking attacks from everywhere.  Also if you try to fight close rang againts someone who can use it efectivly then you most likely win.


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## jks9199 (Mar 14, 2008)

Hinalan said:


> Yes you are right about how it works.  It is mainly used as an defence than attack.  Like the kaiten(rotation) it supposed to spin around with your energy blocking attacks from everywhere.  Also if you try to fight close rang againts someone who can use it efectivly then you most likely win.


I hate to be picky, but you didn't at all answer my questions.  I guess it comes from Japan?  Is it similar to aikido, with more emphasis on atemi?  Are there kicks?  punches?  throws?  Are the movements circular (like many aikido and many Chinese martial arts) or linear (like many styles of karate)?  And I don't think you said what you meant with your last sentence.  You seem to be saying that anyone who fights at close range can defeat someone skilled in using this style.

Who are the instructors?  How could I find someone if I wanted to learn this style?


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## Errant108 (Mar 15, 2008)

&#26580;&#25331;&#34899;/Jukkenjutsu/Yugwonsul was one of the early names of Hapgido, before the name Hapgido was settled on.


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## Hinalan (Apr 6, 2008)

Okay sorry about that it is from Japan and some other eastern countries. It is normally used straight forward. yes there is kicks yay! but when you punch it is good to hit they pressure point exactally and move fast. But you would have you hand out with your pinky and ring fingure curled up and your flick off fingure and pointer fingure. Jabing and stabing they opponet at great speeds. There is a kaiten or heavenly spin used for deflecting objects and stoping punches. Mostly for defence but used right can be for attack. Saddly if i knew any i would tell you but i am training myself so i may be wrong. But i do keep myself updated.


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## jks9199 (Apr 6, 2008)

Hinalan said:


> Okay sorry about that it is from Japan and some other eastern countries. It is normally used straight forward. yes there is kicks yay! but when you punch it is good to hit they pressure point exactally and move fast. But you would have you hand out with your pinky and ring fingure curled up and your flick off fingure and pointer fingure. Jabing and stabing they opponet at great speeds. There is a kaiten or heavenly spin used for deflecting objects and stoping punches. Mostly for defence but used right can be for attack. Saddly if i knew any i would tell you but i am training myself so i may be wrong. But i do keep myself updated.


How are you training yourself?  Are you using videotapes, books, magazine articles, or what?  Not to offend, but it seems like English isn't your first language; are there maybe some websites we could look at to learn more about this style?


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## Gin marturashi (Sep 15, 2008)

I know of the Gentle fist style.


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## jks9199 (Sep 15, 2008)

Gin marturashi said:


> I know of the Gentle fist style.


Great!  Can you tell us some more about it?


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## kwaichang (Sep 15, 2008)

Just quickly, use the "google" search engine and you'll find several topics on this which should help.


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## pgsmith (Sep 15, 2008)

> Just quickly, use the "google" search engine and you'll find several topics on this which should help.


I did so out of sheer curiosity. All it came back with was this thread on this forum, another thread just like it on a different forum, and a whole lot of anime stuff. That bears out my earlier assertion that it was something invented for the anime Naruto. 

I personally find it a bit odd that three different people have opened new accounts to post in this thread that they know about this style, but then refuse to actually tell us anything about it. 

  P.S. Especially when you look at the profiles of those members.


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## theletch1 (Sep 15, 2008)

pgsmith said:


> I did so out of sheer curiosity. All it came back with was this thread on this forum, another thread just like it on a different forum, and a whole lot of anime stuff. That bears out my earlier assertion that it was something invented for the anime Naruto.
> 
> I personally find it a bit odd that three different people have opened new accounts to post in this thread that they know about this style, but then refuse to actually tell us anything about it.
> 
> P.S. Especially when you look at the profiles of those members.


Perhaps the style is so super secret that they'd have to sneak into your house and kill you if they told you about it. :rofl:


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## kwaichang (Sep 15, 2008)

hmmm,
http://www.babylon.com/definition/Juken-jutsu/English

http://translate.google.com/transla...&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBF

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gentle_Fist

http://www.ao-denkou-kai.org/von_baelz.htm

Seems bigger in France than here.  Hope some of this helps.


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## pgsmith (Sep 15, 2008)

> Hope some of this helps.


  Nope, not at all. The first link is for jukendo (also called juken jutsu on rare occassions) which is bayonet fighting, and has nothing to do with "gentle fists". The second link I have no idea as I can't access it from work, the third link is the Naruto video game and anime which I keep saying this "style" is invented for, and the fourth link I couldn't find anything about it at all.

  Thanks for trying, but it still seems totally made up from video to me.


> Perhaps the style is so super secret that they'd have to sneak into your house and kill you if they told you about it.


  Darn those ninja, they're worse than roaches if they get inside your house!


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## jtweymo (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi guys,

Uhm, I ain't sure, I don't read as much Chinese as Japanese... but have a look at this?

http://www.tgclong.com/

Also here's another possibility

Also take note of the kanji/hanzi on this book cover:

http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?11080707605264

JAPANESE PAGE listing a ryuha of it? &#33883;&#22478;&#27969;&#26580;&#25331;&#34899; mentioned half way down the page. 

ANOTHER JAPANESE PAGE listing the ryuha &#22823;&#20276;&#27969;&#26580;&#25331;&#34899; with a long series of remarks that identify this art as being some form of Nihon Kempo (Fist method.)

I also found references to this ryuha &#38797;&#30690;&#30495;&#27969;&#26580;&#25331;&#34899;

The Japanese web-sites indicated that the stuff is some form of Kempo.

Not sure but his might be actual Youtube video of the described art?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkNNBIzTZnQ&feature=related



Is this the Juk(k)en jutsu in questioN?


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## jtweymo (Sep 16, 2008)

Duuuude,

I just noticed your handle (username) is "kwaichang"

That's sooo freakin' cool.


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## jtweymo (Sep 16, 2008)

Okay more info:

Jukenjutsu is the Japanese form of Rou Quan Shu, usually called Rou Quan Fa. Chinese and Japanese forms exist, possible link to the korean Yu Kwon Sul  (same kanji/hanzi, original form of Hapkido.) 

It's a kenpo (chuan fa) system that is related to a series of Shoalin forms by the same name "Rou Quan"


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## kamishinkan (Sep 16, 2008)

This is interesting, in our art we have methods called Juken (soft fist) and Goken (hard fist). Our art is a 'combined' system of hard and soft methods. I have never heard of this before as a style/system. Very interesting.


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## jtweymo (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi ya Kamishinkan and the rest of ya!

Actually sir(s), I dunno much of nothing about this system or style other than very quick reference searches (I do this all the time, I'm an amateur translator of Japanese and some Chinese, I do Budo translations... SOME OF MY BUDO TRANSLATIONS ARE HERE.)

It's a form of Shoalin-based Kempo, but I can't tell when it was founded. I'd say it's newer as a system, since I've never heard of it before I did the reference searches... BUT the fact that Hapkido's founder originally used the same system named Koreanized to (Yu Kwon Sul ) AND that this term is associated with known Shoalin forms (Rou Quan, pronounced I think something like "[ JOW choo'uhn ]" if I'm not mistaken) sugguests that it's been around in one form or another much longer than we might otherwise have suspected. There's really no way that the Founder of Hapkido would have used so well known a reference to Shoalin boxing forms and the material not be refered to in doing so. Which might well explain why Hapkido does not more resemble Aikido from which it's beleived to derive. This would seem to indicate that Aikido was only one thing from which Hapkido derived... something like this Shoalin style kempo might also have contributed?

Another possibility is that the Chinese and Japanese versions (Jukenjutsu and respectively Rou Quan Fa) actually represent *an earlier form of Hapkido* that entered China and Japan whilst still called (Yu Kwon Sul) and so are getting refered to by the original name, now Sinosized (being pronounced in Chinese and Japanese, that is to say.) THIS SORT OF THING IS COMMON IN ASIA (shared systems.) Please take note of the uniforms demonstrated on the Chinese web-site... that looks amazingly similar to modern Korean TKD/HKD uniforms. It is my supposition to you guys that this is exactly what it is... having been further transformed into
a modern Shaolin associated form of Kempo/Chuan Fa.

As for the forms of Goken "Hard fist" and Juken "Soft fist" you refer to, many systems of karate and kempo have some form of it, based off the Shaolin chuan fa equivalents. GOJU RYU!!

Eeew I said a mouthfull in all of this... please remember that I do NOT know what this system is, it's only supposition (but I have some minor experience by which to make the suppositions.)


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## jtweymo (Sep 16, 2008)

BTW,  the traditional understanding of juken &#26580;&#25331; (rou quan) is an open hand, which is why it's called "soft fist" and refers to the hand grabbing the guys clothes or limbs (the gripping position resembles a fist.) The Goken  &#21083;&#25331; (g&#257;ng quan) is standard usage of the fist to pummel with... for anyone who doesn't know these terms (I realize you fellas with these techniques already knew, I thought I'd clarify the subject.)

BTW, the spinning kaiten movements in the jukenjutsu techniques... I know why they do this (standard Shaolin based kempo tactic): they grab your body or clothing with one hand (juken soft fist application) rotate kaiten to jerk you off balance, spinning around and plowing your now unbalanced body with the fist or foot (goken hard fist application.) The kempo and other Shaolin systems do this all the time, to unbalance and disshelve the opponent. It's associated with the wind element and "dragon form boxing", which is why dragon and tiger are used as associated sysmbols herewith: 'dragon' is juken and 'tiger' is goken.

  Are you a kempo or jukenjutsu practitioner? Peice of advice... in order to master this art along these relevant subject lines (juken and goken) you must carefully experiment with the mechanics of the limb/clothing grab and kaiten spin out. The physics of this maneuver are such that you MUST be accustomed to the torque created in order to land the fist or foot correctly. Otherwise you get thrown off balance yourself, your grip wrenched and you end up missing the target completely. The movements of the forms done one-man (alone, empty air shadow-boxing) are just to help learn the movements, two-man forms of practice are necessary to master the kempo/chuan fa techniques along these lines.


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## Gin marturashi (Sep 16, 2008)

Gin marturashi said:


> I know of the Gentle fist style.


 
Sure what do you wish to know but keep in mind i have not yet mastered it so my knowledge is not that great. however, my master is that one you can talk to, but if you want to know anymore about the style i'll answer what I can so what is it you want to here?


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## Gin marturashi (Sep 16, 2008)

What do you want to know?


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## Gin marturashi (Sep 17, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Great! Can you tell us some more about it?


 Well you i can show you my video on youtube just go to the search bar and type in gentil fist you'll see a video with a guy in a red shirt on thats me then after thet go to the search bar agin and type in gentle fist you'll see a few videos all real no anime. Rate or comment please.


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## Kreth (Sep 17, 2008)

This one?
[yt]iuuvL-i6SaA[/yt]
:rofl:


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## pgsmith (Sep 17, 2008)

Mr. Marturashi, thanks very much for coming here and offering information but, based upon that video, there is nothing else that I wish to know about your "style".

  Perhaps others are still curious, I am not.


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## jtweymo (Sep 17, 2008)

Hmm,

Apparently the gentleman is either Middle eastern or Eastern european, I notice they were wearing caftan style face masks. 

The technique shown is indeed a kempo technique though... maybe he truly is a practitioner of jukenjutsu/rou quan fa?

Did you guys get the links to the jukenjutsu websites in Chinese and Japanese that I posted several posts back?


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## masterjuans (Sep 18, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Great! Can you tell us some more about it?


 
Yes, i am Gin's teacher. I taught him the Gentle Fist style a long time ago. 
well for one the style is composed of 8 basic forms, 3 composite forms, and 3 master forms. 14 in all. however their are some other forms but they are only taught to the ones who master the 14 other forms. 

Me, i Have been studding the Gentle Fist style for about 8 years now. it was one of the first styles i have learned. All together i have been doing Martial Arts for about 9 years. 
the Gentle Fist style is a great Kung Fu style to study. The thing that i like most about it is the user can find there own rhythm. that being said the user can use their technique how ever they want as long as they follow the techniques principles. a lot of people look down on the style and say the techniques should be done all the same way. 

it has its advantages. 

1.one is that the user can find there battle movement to be smooth, rough, gentle, or composite. that helps out because it allows the technique to move freely with in battle. but the student hast to follow the techniques principles.

2. every technique is the same. what that means is that each technique is the same when it is being done. that being said no matter what movement you have with the legs, the are techniques will work as long as you follow the techniques principles. 

3. training in ones own motion will allow the user to benefit from the training really good. that being said, the user can learn, adapt, and concur the technique as long as they follow the principles.


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## jks9199 (Sep 19, 2008)

masterjuans said:


> Yes, i am Gin's teacher. I taught him the Gentle Fist style a long time ago.
> well for one the style is composed of 8 basic forms, 3 composite forms, and 3 master forms. 14 in all. however their are some other forms but they are only taught to the ones who master the 14 other forms.
> 
> Me, i Have been studding the Gentle Fist style for about 8 years now. it was one of the first styles i have learned. All together i have been doing Martial Arts for about 9 years.
> ...


 
 What's the history of the style?  What part of China did it originate in, who started it, and so on?

When you say "every technique is the same", I'm not quite sure what you mean.  Are you saying that any hand technique can be done with any footwork?


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## Kreth (Sep 20, 2008)

And how many times are you going to make variations of the same post?


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## jks9199 (Sep 20, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> What's the history of the style?  What part of China did it originate in, who started it, and so on?
> 
> When you say "every technique is the same", I'm not quite sure what you mean.  Are you saying that any hand technique can be done with any footwork?


I got interrupted and had to run out, so I didn't get to finish this post and I had a few more questions.

What's with the masks in a couple of the videos? (Assuming I found the right ones, of course.)

I also saw no foot techniques; are there any?

Again, I'd be really interested in hearing about the lineage and history of the style.


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## Gin marturashi (Sep 23, 2008)

pgsmith said:


> I did so out of sheer curiosity. All it came back with was this thread on this forum, another thread just like it on a different forum, and a whole lot of anime stuff. That bears out my earlier assertion that it was something invented for the anime Naruto.
> 
> I personally find it a bit odd that three different people have opened new accounts to post in this thread that they know about this style, but then refuse to actually tell us anything about it.
> 
> P.S. Especially when you look at the profiles of those members.


yes i surly will what do you wish to know???!


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## Kreth (Sep 23, 2008)

Gin marturashi said:


> yes i surly will what do you wish to know???!


Scroll up. Several questions have been asked in previous posts.


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## pgsmith (Sep 23, 2008)

Gin marturashi said:


> yes i surly will what do you wish to know???!


   OK, I know I'm going to regret posting this, but I'll try and reiterate ALL the questions that have been asked that you've ignored ...
1) What's the history of the style? 
2) What part of China did it originate in?
3) Who started it and when?
4) What's with the masks that some of the people are wearing?
5) Are there any foot techniques?

 Most of this was asked back at the beginning of this thread, and no one has answered. My guess is that it isn't being answered because it was all made up by you kids in your backyard, and now you're hoping to pass it off as a legitimate martial art style. That's just the feeling that I get from looking at the video and reading the posts from you guys.

  I could be wrong though, it's been known to happen.


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## Oldie (Sep 30, 2008)

Firstly, allow me to admit that I have joined your forums because I stumbled across this thread in a google search and the discussion interested me.

Now, onto what I was going to say before senility steals the thought altogether:

This "Gentle Fist" style, as it has been described here, intrigues me particularly because it seems to sit on a direct parrallel with two of the three main styles that I have studied, Xiang I and Ba Gua (Collectively known as the "Three Brothers" the arts I study are all derivatives of Shaolin Temple Boxing).

I can go into further detail if you want me to but if you would prefer that I just toss in my ten cents worth and scarper I won't mind.


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## Kreth (Sep 30, 2008)

Oldie said:


> This "Gentle Fist" style, as it has been described here, intrigues me particularly because it seems to sit on a direct parrallel with two of the three main styles that I have studied, Xiang I and Ba Gua (Collectively known as the "Three Brothers" the arts I study are all derivatives of Shaolin Temple Boxing).


Check out the video link above. It's basically two kids doing "live-action anime" in a backyard. Probably not related to the training you've experienced...


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## Oldie (Sep 30, 2008)

As they say. Fail.


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