# Sl-4



## MJS (Mar 19, 2007)

This question is directed to Doc, Bode, Dave and anyone else that may know the answer.

What is a typical SL4 class like for the new student?  I'm interested to hear how the classes run, whats covered in class, etc.  This of course is not limited to just beginning classes, but all ranks.  

Mike


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## Bode (Mar 19, 2007)

MJS said:


> This question is directed to Doc, Bode, Dave and anyone else that may know the answer.
> 
> What is a typical SL4 class like for the new student?  I'm interested to hear how the classes run, whats covered in class, etc.  This of course is not limited to just beginning classes, but all ranks.
> 
> Mike



Wow, that's a tough one... 

Class starts at 8PM. Usually a black gi teaches the white gi's for the first 45 minutes with Doc's approving eye. It allows the black belts to gain more teaching time. Much of the time we warm up with course 101 (white belt) and work our way up. We do the lower level material more often than upper.

Class continues with a mixture of Doc teaching the black gis while hopping over to the white gi's to make sure they are on track. One black gi remains with the white gis to keep them moving correctly. 

This continues with varying degrees of participation. Sometime the whole class will work on the drills together. Sometimes seperate, depending on rank. There is simply some material that is beyond the lower ranks. 

10:00 ish. White gi's sometimes leave. Doc pulls together all of the black gis and works on advanced material. This goes on until 11:30 or sometimes much later. 

Doc did a 4 week lecture on Kicking. Every class was about kicking. the how's and why's. The proper footwork. Utilizing the upper body to increase your kicking power and stability. It was a great lesson and made everyone better kickers. I wish I had this lesson a long time ago. 

At around 11PM Doc will say, "Got lots to do" to which a few will grumble, because they know that means we might be there past 11:30. (Some of us have to wake up early). We have now incorporated this into our jargon. "Got lots to do"... the students usually say it before Doc does. See, he'd go on all night if we could. Hell, I wish I could, but my body wont let me because of my work schedule. 

If we are preparing for a test Doc makes us move throught he techniques quicker, with an emphasis on execution, not details. He wants to start pushing us so we're ready for the test. 

Sometimes Doc uses the mirror as a white board by writing on it with a dry erase marker. It really helps us record the material that isn't in our coursebooks. 

Doc likes to demonstrate the whole "feeling is believing" aspect. 

Many times we interupt the class to "test" the reasoning behind a movement. Doc will give us an exercise to compare two different executions of the same movement. Often times these involve a lot of verbal disucussioin as well. We ask questions, Doc answers. 

Doc also likes to force us to think and verbalize. He wants to make sure we don't rely on him for answers and that we can articulate our questions. He's devoted entire classes to forcing us to think. These classes aren't very physical, but they are integral to truly understanding the material. 

Overall, class is usually about 3.5 hours. A wide range of material is covered, but the key is, Doc teaches on different levels. What one person sees or learns is different than another. And he knows. That's the point. Teach everyone at the same time. From white to black. That way we all benefit. 

There you go... in a nutshell.


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## MJS (Mar 19, 2007)

WOW!! Thanks for the great reply!!  3+ hrs. certainly makes for a very long day.  As far as material goes, does he follow the technique outline that you'd usually see in other Kenpo schools, such as the 16 or 24 tech. requirements, or does he have a specific list of things for each rank?  I think the question may have been asked before, but I can't remember...do you also teach the standard Parker katas as well?Mike


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## Bode (Mar 19, 2007)

MJS said:


> WOW!! Thanks for the great reply!!  3+ hrs. certainly makes for a very long day.  As far as material goes, does he follow the technique outline that you'd usually see in other Kenpo schools, such as the 16 or 24 tech. requirements, or does he have a specific list of things for each rank?  I think the question may have been asked before, but I can't remember...do you also teach the standard Parker katas as well?Mike



We use the 16 technique format. 
He does have a specific list of sets/forms/techniques for each rank. Students must learn them before moving on. See, this is where we differ a bit. Material has change or been dropped all together. 

We do blocking set (it looks different though), kicking set, stance set (different), Short 1, 2, 3. Long 1,2. However, Doc has added material such as Index Set 1,2. Advanced Index Set. 

Finger set is gone, but not forgotten. It's more of "hand index set". Long 4 is gone. Too many biomechanical errors. Doc say's it cannot be fixed. 


In summary, the material has been stretched out, so to speak. With different levels of Short 1 (we call it Form 1). First, basic blocking and footword. Then at a higher level, double factoring. Because we spend so much time on the basics, stretching the material out allows us to spend more time on basics.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 19, 2007)

Bode said:


> Wow, that's a tough one...
> 
> Class starts at 8PM. Usually a black gi teaches the white gi's for the first 45 minutes with Doc's approving eye. It allows the black belts to gain more teaching time. Much of the time we warm up with course 101 (white belt) and work our way up. We do the lower level material more often than upper.
> 
> ...


Hard to believe Doc hasn't marketed this as a commercial product.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 19, 2007)

Sorry but the image of McSL4s popping up in shopping malls all over the country has me very amused. TKD studios are probably cringing in fear.
:rofl:


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 19, 2007)

Regarding forms...

Coming from a motion kenpo background, Doc's forms are quite different. Short 2 will still have inward block/outward handsword sequencing in it that's recognizable as such if you're looking, but the corrective alignment mechanisms and indexes that get injected to stabilize movement give it a very different look and feel. 

"Gettin' jiggy with it"....Short 2 at MSU was one of the nights as an observer that convinced me, "I gots to learn this stuff!". Different paths described by the natural weapons in motion built greater momentum, landed with some significant authority, and despite the look of the course as being longer, more circuitous, it actually found it's way to the strikes from the blocks in less time when thrown all-out. Twas cool.

D.


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## DavidCC (Mar 19, 2007)

Kenpodoc said:


> Hard to believe Doc hasn't marketed this as a commercial product.


 
I think Ed Parker already did that 
:redeme:


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## DavidCC (Mar 19, 2007)

on a more serious note...

Commercial products have to appeal to a wide variety of consumers.  

The level of detail required, both in understanding and in performance, is daunting.  Extremely rewarding, yes!  But extremely challenging.

I did have a conversation with Doc about how a "commercial" SL-4 school might function.  It seemed very reasonable to me.  But where will the teachers come from?  As Dr. Chapel said, he is "training teachers" so he demands 90+% performance 90+% of the time.  It takes 4 years or so to reach 1st BB at 8-12 hours per week in his school.  

I'd love to kidnap Ryan Angell and lock him in my basement to teach me SL-4 but 
(1) I can't afford to feed him and 
(2) YOU try kidnapping a 5th degree BB in SL-4 kenpo!  Ain't gonna happen!


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## Bode (Mar 19, 2007)

DavidCC said:


> on a more serious note...
> 
> Commercial products have to appeal to a wide variety of consumers.
> 
> ...


That's the problem with wearing no rank on belts... Mr. Angell is upwards of a 5th degree  Not sure what, but somewhere higher than 5th


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## IWishToLearn (Mar 19, 2007)

According to the site linked in Doc & Bode's sigs - Mr. Angell is a 6th. 

Course - even some of the brown belts at Docs are more knowledgeable than a lot of people with a lot more red on their belts than them. Oops. I probably shouldn't have said that. *runs away*


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## profesormental (Mar 20, 2007)

Greetings.

Good teaching, specially to small groups (less than 10) means that you can NOT use a "cookie cutter" approach to teaching.

You notice what each individual student needs... and you give it to them.

Many drills come from specific challenges some students have and the drill is a corrective mechanism to stress on that skill.

There are requisites for each level, and it is possible to teach all the attending students (and help them teach themselves).

So having a 

Warm up - Basics - Forms and sets - drills - self defense techs - sparring - auxiliary training - cool down +stretch

format is quite unoptimized pedagogically.

It is uniform, yet not all learn best that way. It is a good way, yet not the best.

Interestingly enough, my routine training is up to short 3 anyway (sometimes short 4)... go figure.

Juan M. Mercado


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## Doc (Mar 20, 2007)

DavidCC said:


> I'd love to kidnap Ryan Angell and lock him in my basement to teach me SL-4 but
> (1) I can't afford to feed him and



I guarantee you can't afford to feed him. But where does it go? Same size since he was 17 years old. I hate him.


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## LawDog (Mar 20, 2007)

How many days a week does Doc run these classes?


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## kenposikh (Mar 20, 2007)

IWishToLearn said:


> According to the site linked in Doc & Bode's sigs - Mr. Angell is a 6th.
> 
> Course - even some of the brown belts at Docs are more knowledgeable than a lot of people with a lot more red on their belts than them. Oops. I probably shouldn't have said that. *runs away*


 
You can run but you can't hide  anyways it's true so let that be your wall of defence.


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## DavidCC (Mar 20, 2007)

LawDog said:


> How many days a week does Doc run these classes?


 
The week I was there, it was 8-midnight on Tuesday and Thursday, and 2-8 on Saturday.  And those end times were just guidelines anyway...


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## DavidCC (Mar 20, 2007)

Bode said:


> That's the problem with wearing no rank on belts... Mr. Angell is upwards of a 5th degree  Not sure what, but somewhere higher than 5th


 

OK I will change #2 to read

(2) YOU try kidnapping an SL-4 student! Ain't gonna happen!


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## kidswarrior (Mar 20, 2007)

Doc said:


> I guarantee you can't afford to feed him. But where does it go? Same size since he was 17 years old. I hate him.


 
I feel ya'. I'm the same size I was since... last week. :lol:


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## IWishToLearn (Mar 20, 2007)

DavidCC said:


> OK I will change #2 to read
> 
> (2) YOU try kidnapping an SL-4 student! Ain't gonna happen!



Heyas David - thought just crossed my mind. How bout a tranquilizer dart?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 21, 2007)

IWishToLearn said:


> Heyas David - thought just crossed my mind. How bout a tranquilizer dart?


 
Don't miss. Many of Doc's guys be da fuzz, and shoot back.


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## IWishToLearn (Mar 21, 2007)

Hah! Don't forget Doc's 10th Degree.


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## Doc (Mar 25, 2007)

DavidCC said:


> The week I was there, it was 8-midnight on Tuesday and Thursday, and 2-8 on Saturday.  And those end times were just guidelines anyway...


Those are summer hours. During the winter we back off - a bit.


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