# Want To Really Fight But Protection



## tylerdrun (Nov 4, 2010)

Guys,

Soon I will start sparring in my shootfighting classes. I have no idea as to what protection I should have. During one of my school fights(organized by students), I was kneed on my balls accidentally(when I wasn't ready) during demonstration of rules. And plus been hurt quite lot of times. 

I am not scared of getting hurt. But what protection should I really use if I want to get into a full on fight in the class and not worry about something breaking? 

I don't care about bleeding nose or sore eye. I don't some severe injury. SO let me know. Whats' the protection do u guys recommend that I wear? 

Thanks.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 4, 2010)

Groin protection at the minimum.  Eye protection too as blindness isn't much fun.


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## Tez3 (Nov 5, 2010)

What sort of class are you going to that goes full on in training?


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## Bruno@MT (Nov 5, 2010)

Ok...

Why are you asking us, a bunch of strangers on the internet, and not your trainer / coach?


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## KenpoVzla (Nov 6, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Ok...
> 
> Why are you asking us, a bunch of strangers on the internet, and not your trainer / coach?




Clearly because he doesn't want to be seen as weak or scared by asking is coach....

Groin and mouth guard are absolutely must! Everything else definitely worth it too.


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## Tez3 (Nov 6, 2010)

KenpoVzla said:


> *Clearly because he doesn't want to be seen as weak or scared by asking is coach....*
> 
> Groin and mouth guard are absolutely must! Everything else definitely worth it too.


 

Clearly that and the fact they seem to be fighting full contact seem to be warning sign's that somethings not right.

Hard sparring is one thing but when you are talking about getting hurt in *'really fighting'*, this is a place that sends up question marks. I know of no reputable place that *fights* in training.  If it's not in training and it's on a fight night, if you have to ask about protection it's too early to be looking to fight.


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## Bruno@MT (Nov 6, 2010)

And regardless of contact level, if you can't ask your coach without fear of ridicule, then something is really wrong and it would then probably be a good idea to find someplace else to train. I don't see how you can train if you can't trust your trainer.


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## Supra Vijai (Nov 7, 2010)

tylerdrun said:


> Guys,
> 
> During one of my school fights(*organized by students*), I was kneed on my balls accidentally(when I wasn't ready) during demonstration of rules. And plus been hurt quite lot of times.
> 
> .



Sorry guys I know you've covered most things but talking to the  instructor has been mentioned a couple of times. Do we even know if  these are instructor sanctioned fights? The original post clearly says organized by students and I know how it is to some degree. I personally like to get together with a friend of mine (who also trains at our dojo) and train in our free time and we tend to ramp it up a fair bit as while in class, safety comes first obviously but we both want to experience something more "realistic" in terms of impact you may get on the street. For something like that neither of us would approach our sensei for advice on protective gear because really it's a stupid idea at 6th and 8th kyu (respectively) and we're not training in RBSD. We talk amongst ourselves and figure out what we are going to be drilling and what we need. Usually we don't bother with full on padding as we know each others' limits etc but sometimes the strikes land harder than expected. Groin guards are a definite must I agree but anything else is dependant on what we're training at the time - be it traditional or modern.


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## Bruno@MT (Nov 8, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> For something like that neither of us would approach our sensei for advice on protective gear because really it's a stupid idea at 6th and 8th kyu (respectively) and we're not training in RBSD.



So you know it is stupid and you continue to do so?



Supra Vijai said:


> *We talk amongst ourselves and figure out what we are going to be drilling and what we need*. Usually we don't bother with full on padding as we know each others' limits etc but sometimes the strikes land harder than expected. Groin guards are a definite must I agree but anything else is dependant on what we're training at the time - be it traditional or modern.



The blind leading the blind.


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## Burnse (Nov 8, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> So you know it is stupid and you continue to do so?
> 
> 
> 
> The blind leading the blind.


 
Supra has received this notification and will reply to clarify what he meant as soon as he can get to a computer.



Ah, discussion boards, the play-by-play of communication breakdown.


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## Cirdan (Nov 8, 2010)

tylerdrun said:


> Guys,
> 
> Soon I will start sparring in my shootfighting classes. I have no idea as to what protection I should have. *During one of my school fights(organized by students), I was kneed on my balls accidentally(when I wasn't ready)* during demonstration of rules. And plus been hurt quite lot of times.
> 
> ...


 
Oviously you need protection from your selves.


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## Supra Vijai (Nov 8, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> So you know it is stupid and you continue to do so? The blind leading the blind.



Well played Bruno, I walked straight into that one huh? Guess that's what I get for having half formed ideas in my head, a mental dictation that's too fast for my typing and not enough time at work to proof read before I hit submit reply! That'll learn me!

In response to your reply, what I _meant_ to write was that it's stupid for us to run to the Sensei for advice on protective gear etc (at least in our newbie heads) when it's something we are doing quite separately from our normal training and of our own accord. We should have the common sense to know what we need to do to protect ourselves without needing to drag the Sensei into it for every thing. The reason I mentioned our Kyu levels was to illustrate that we are only drilling the absolute basics, things that we have been over several times in class and not trying to invent our own moves or responses to anything. That being said we do try increase the pace/intensity where we can. I don't personally think our training itself is stupid and I'll explain how we train to get your opinion on it after wards.

With regards to the comment of the blind leading the blind, I'd prefer to think of it as the vision impaired leading the other vision impaired lol. Before we meet up to do any training we have a quick chat on the phone or send a couple of txts back and forth to establish what it is we are training. If it is traditional weaponry, we have our original training weapons which are foam padded and quite safe for hard contact (if a little stingy on the skin) and we use those. If we are using wooden weaponry then we use the same control as we would in the dojo but then train impact against a kick pad that the other person holds at various heights/angles to replicate body targets. The kick pad itself runs from shoulder to hip so offers quite a wide surface should the strike be off. This lets the person doing the cut/strike get a sense of impacting something hard and lets the person holding the pad experience a taste of what it might feel like against the body. 

If we train modern defenses/traditional unarmed, it's usually groin guard and in my case knee and ankle braces thanks to a motorbike accident a couple of years ago which mean my legs aren't as stable as I would like and a mouth guard. We are both looking into purchasing a head guard with a face grill to enable full contact hits to the head/face but for the moment we work on grappling defences in the street, kicking defences and striking defences with care taken if going for the face. We don't own body armour per se but then neither of us are generating enough power to cause lasting damage. When it comes to techniques that could result in a trip to the ER (stomping the opponents foot to shatter an ankle while applying a muso dori for example) we simulate the stomp and release the muso dori at the point of broken balance and step behind while grabbing the shoulder so they still get taken down hard. We train in the park usually where the ground is a little harder than the dojo floors. Same deal for ukemi, we practice our dive rolls on that surface using any available obstacles to give us a height target as well as any breakfalls. Safer than rolling on concrete, harder than at the dojo. 

I have approached our Sensei with regards to possibly incorporating some of the intensity into class and he suggested that it might not be everyone's cup of tea but he was happy to take us through a private class if we wished. Now we are both full time students who work part time with not a lot of disposable income so we need to save to buy the protective gear needed for a full blown street session, not to mention the cost of the private lesson itself. In the meantime, we make do with this. 

Now if you (or anyone else reading this really) still thinks the way we train is stupid or inadvisable, please feel free to let me know as any and all constructive criticisms and feedback is much appreciated!


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## Supra Vijai (Nov 8, 2010)

Oh almost forgot! That was quite a tangent there but yeah do we know if these fights are sanctioned by the instructors or if it's just the students having a bit of a beat down?


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## Chris Parker (Nov 8, 2010)

Burnse said:


> Supra has received this notification and will reply to clarify what he meant as soon as he can get to a computer.


 
Oh good. He's not the only one who's seen the notification....



Supra Vijai said:


> Well played Bruno, I walked straight into that one huh? Guess that's what I get for having half formed ideas in my head, a mental dictation that's too fast for my typing and not enough time at work to proof read before I hit submit reply! That'll learn me!


 
Yeah, Bruno'll do that.... 



Supra Vijai said:


> In response to your reply, what I _meant_ to write was that it's stupid for us to run to the Sensei for advice on protective gear etc (at least in our newbie heads) when it's something we are doing quite separately from our normal training and of our own accord. We should have the common sense to know what we need to do to protect ourselves without needing to drag the Sensei into it for every thing. The reason I mentioned our Kyu levels was to illustrate that we are only drilling the absolute basics, things that we have been over several times in class and not trying to invent our own moves or responses to anything. That being said we do try increase the pace/intensity where we can. I don't personally think our training itself is stupid and I'll explain how we train to get your opinion on it after wards.


 
Of course, you remembered that I'm here, though, didn't you?

While I can't control what you do outside of class, really, if you want to go through things like this privately with each other, absolutely talk to me about it. One of the other seniors and I used to put on fairly solid body armour and see how well things like Koto Ryu kata worked through it... turned out, they work pretty damn well! So, depending on what you're working on together, I can and will happily advise on the best types of equipment or methods for you.



Supra Vijai said:


> I have approached our Sensei with regards to possibly incorporating some of the intensity into class and he suggested that it might not be everyone's cup of tea but he was happy to take us through a private class if we wished. Now we are both full time students who work part time with not a lot of disposable income so we need to save to buy the protective gear needed for a full blown street session, not to mention the cost of the private lesson itself. In the meantime, we make do with this.


 
See above.



Supra Vijai said:


> Now if you (or anyone else reading this really) still thinks the way we train is stupid or inadvisable, please feel free to let me know as any and all constructive criticisms and feedback is much appreciated!


 
Will do. Tomorrow night. Save some time after class for you both.


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## Cirdan (Nov 8, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> Now if you (or anyone else reading this really) still thinks the way we train is stupid or inadvisable, please feel free to let me know as any and all constructive criticisms and feedback is much appreciated!


 
Do I think a 6th and 8th kyu practicing lessons from the dojo on their own is a good idea? Sure.
Do I think doing it with more force ("full blown street") than you are used to from class is a good idea? Nope, it is a recipe for injuries. You should take your teacher`s offer of a at least a few private lessons and try it out under supervision until you know what you are doing.



Supra Vijai said:


> Usually we don't bother with full on padding as we know each others' limits etc but sometimes the strikes land harder than expected.


 
Which shows you have the lack to control that is typical for lower kyu. Going full force you could easily break an arm during a takedown even if you have all the padding in the world. If you want to do safety first, talk to your instructor.


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## 72ronin (Nov 8, 2010)

tylerdrun said:


> Guys,
> 
> Soon I will start sparring in my shootfighting classes. I have no idea as to what protection I should have. During one of my school fights(organized by students), I was kneed on my balls accidentally(when I wasn't ready) during demonstration of rules. And plus been hurt quite lot of times.
> 
> ...


 
My first reaction to this is, if you have to ask then something is wrong..
A week into a Karate class and you would know what you would need, whats up with your shootfighting class?
Kneed in balls during demo of rules? Organised by students? with no knowledge of appropriate safety gear!!

The basic kit is Mouthguard, groinguard, shin/instep pads and mits.
Anyone sparring should be wearing these.


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## tylerdrun (Nov 8, 2010)

I need to clarify a few things. I think I haven't posted the message clearly. 

- The fight I am talking about is the fights I used to fight in high school. 

In the shoot fighting class, we are working safely and there is nothing dangerous. Some members in this forum advised me that if I need to improve my skill, I should not be scared and go for it to test my boundaries. 

My instructor hasn't taught me any of the techniques to fight yet and therefore he won't be letting me fight for a few more weeks. And we do train safely with a mat, gloves and stuff. 

I just wanted to ask you guys what sort of protection is max required. And I've gotten ur answers too. Thank you very much. 

- Mouth guard to ensure teeth doesn't break
- Groin guard. 

Anything else?

Thanks.


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## Supra Vijai (Nov 8, 2010)

tylerdrun said:


> The fight I am talking about is the fights I used to fight in high school.



So kinda like in the movie Never Back Down?


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## xfighter88 (Dec 7, 2010)

So....to actually give the OP an answer, (Ignoring that the whole situation seems a bit shady), I would say hands down High Gear is the best for full contact butt whoopin'. I don't have a set but have used it at seminars. Stuff will sting but you won't get hurt. It's pricey though $1400.00 for a set. Another way to go would be a plexyglass shielded mask, mouth piece, cup, martial armor for the chest, shin/instep, forearm/elbow, Knee pads, and Boxing gloves of some kind. I am a wholesaler and can do that for about $120.00. It's a little over $200 if you are just buying retail. all that gear can be found at Centurymartialarts.com.

Side note...we only gear up like this for scenario specific work in my self defense classes or at work ( I am a corrections officer) This kind of training will hurt but shouldn't injure. The fact that you have already been hurt on multiple occasions should be a red flag.


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