# Dim Mak: Is it real?



## Nyrotic (Dec 27, 2006)

Now I for one believe that the effects of Dim Mak are real, if not for the traditional explanations of them. However, with no knowledge in the subject, I was curious as to where I could find legitimate information on the ancient point striking techniques, and also an explanation as to why I often see Dim Mak referred to as "fictional".


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## profesormental (Dec 27, 2006)

Greetings.

Here's the thing.

If I were to teach some people a functional sytem of targeting and sequencing strikes for control of an attacker, it's easier to teach them the locations in the body of "energy meridians" in the body, and a simple model based on traditional Chinese medicine...

than to teach them anatomy and physiology at the med school level as to understand the mechanics of the neurological system as it applies to trauma.

Most of the Dim Mak methods work. Some work only on willing participants via suggestion/hypnosis mehods (most do not know that the phenomena has been studied and reproduced since the late 1800's and re-confirmed in the 1960's),

others work whether you want it or not.

The explanations mostly have to do with nerve activation of dermatomes and musculoskeletal structural weaknesses, which when exploited increase damage to organs and nervous system.

Yet if you just want to know where, how and in what order to hit someone to get the desired effect, you're better off with learning the 14 meridians and enjoying the mayhem!!!

If you want more, just ask!

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado


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## Nyrotic (Dec 27, 2006)

So would you say that there's an obvious distinction between Dim Mak techniques that work through suggestive/hypnotic methods and those that work without such?

I'm curious now...


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 27, 2006)

I'll go with Dim Mak being real; however, it is no substitute for the hard work you must devote to stances, maneuvers, fitness and basics. In EPAK it gets listed as a specialized move.
Sean


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## profesormental (Dec 27, 2006)

Greetings.

No touch knockouts have been performed since the 1700's... of course with another name. Mesmer's method evoked an "animal magnetism", which could be seen as some sort of Qi.

In the 1800's, the same phenomena was duplicated using the model and explanations of suggestion. I've done it easily.

Also, some people are more sensitive to stimuli... those need almost no preconditionings.

Physiologically, the body makes no distinction between the suggested trauma and the real one, and reacts as if in shock, measurably.

Yet to physically stop someone hell bent on hurting, maiming or killuing you, that is another story. You do need, as Touch of Deth Sean mentioned, the hard work of training all you other atributes to make this work.

This methodology really works only after thorough control of your own body and mind has been accomplished. Then you can much easily control the attacker and apply this knowledge.

Does that make sense?

sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado


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## bignick (Dec 27, 2006)

Is it possible to maim or kill someone with one strike?  Yes.  Is it something super mystical and magical?  I say not.  The body, although quite a feat of engineering, intelligent or otherwise, has quite a few weak areas.  A blow hard enough to the right area can end a fight or a life in the blink of an eye.  Nailing someone in the throat, breaking someone's ribs so they puncture internal organs, rupturing a bladder and causing infection and then death.  These are the things that I think were taken for a death touch...not some mystical force of ki.


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## 7starmantis (Dec 28, 2006)

I agree and to add further, relying on any one technique to end or stop a fight or attacker is just naive and deadly in my opinion.
Hitting a pressure point to get a reaction you can taek advantage of is one thing, trying to knock attackers out before they can get to you is just silly.


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## Kwiter (Dec 29, 2006)

7starmantis said:


> I agree and to add further, relying on any one technique to end or stop a fight or attacker is just naive and deadly in my opinion.
> Hitting a pressure point to get a reaction you can taek advantage of is one thing, trying to knock attackers out before they can get to you is just silly.




But it'd sure be nice to be able to use it when some Neanderthal is harrassing the neighborhood 98 pound weakling for ogling his girlfriend.

"Lord Vader your clinging to your outmoded religion is gurk cragh argh"

;-)

Not quite the qoute but close enough ehnit ?;-)

Skennen Peace.


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## Kwiter (Dec 29, 2006)

Here's another observation, was watching the BBC's "Mind Body and Kick *** moves" the other day and there was a gent who was ringing a bell using Chi, seemed a little too easy to me tho as I make a racket in my middle bedroom everytime I sneeze. Why, because I have a Buffalo Drum , an acoustic guitar and a Mandolin hanging on the wall in there.

I did a Kiai in there and sure enough it rang out clear and true. The force must be powerful in this one ;-)

Skennen Peace.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 29, 2006)

Nyrotic said:


> Now I for one believe that the effects of Dim Mak are real, if not for the traditional explanations of them. However, with no knowledge in the subject, I was curious as to where I could find legitimate information on the ancient point striking techniques, and also an explanation as to why I often see Dim Mak referred to as "fictional".


 
Is it real? Yes and no

If you mean a pressure point system that can cause pain, then yes.

If you mean a system where you can poke someone in the back of the neck and cause them to freeze and then have blood come out seconds later like in Jet Li's Kiss of the dragon, then no, that is fictional.

I am told that there is a point there that if poked can cause problems but it will not make you explode.

Some of what you see, read and hear about pressure points is real, some is fictional.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 29, 2006)

Kwiter said:


> "Lord Vader your clinging to your outmoded religion is gurk cragh argh"


 
I have ALWAYS wanted to be able to do that Vader thing.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 29, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> Is it real? Yes and no
> 
> If you mean a pressure point system that can cause pain, then yes.
> 
> ...



That is how I view Dim Mak techniques too. Nothing magical. There are pressure points that can cause pain, and some that can...over a period of time..cause death I believe. Take for example, *Dim Mak*-ing someone in the carotid artery. Let's say the artery closes for moment touching sides. When it opens, the interior sides of the artery are now roughened, allowing deposits such as cholesterol in the blood collect, eventually causing a complete closure and death. So, by striking to a specific pressure point, can you do enough damage to cause death, be quickly or slowly? I think so. Can you cause severe, debilitating pain? Most definitely.

So, to ask if Dim Mak is real. Yes, it is *real*. But it also depends on how you define Dim Mak.


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## Mantis King (Dec 29, 2006)

All those answers are not quit there yet, But on the right track. Dim Mak or the real name is Dim yuet is real. Without a doubt and it has nothing to do with hypnosis, it has to do with the bodys mechanics, time of the day, the four seasons, and other things, etc. A good 90% of all the people that Ive meet or has said that they know it really do not. Back to basics: 1st the real name if Dim Yuet meaning Touch point, Dim Mak means Touch energy. But most Americans and even instructors dont know. So they give dumb Americans the standard name Dim Mak. In china the two arts that are most famous for it is Bak Mai, and South Mantis. South mantis is the controlling factor in china they dont even call it south mantis the real name is acupuncture boxing, or the machine gun art. That is the art that in china that real mad it famous. In Japan it might be Ninjutsu I think its been a long time. Some one said that the throat is a weak point; yes it is but just like most of any body part you can condition it. I myself have had many students punch my throat with no effect. Its not magic it years of learning how to protect it and condition it. As for suggestion on someone, I think not I have been all over the world and have seen famous people say that they can hit you or touch you or tell you to fall and you go. Well brace yourselves those people that fall are morons. Not one of them could do it to me or my teachers, and we laugh at them and tell them to stop bringing false hope those are called charlatans. Or what they like to call EMPTY FORCE people. NOT TRUE. Dim Yuet is not ease to do or learn it takes years and I mean Years. Everyone is talking about points, yea what else, there is more to it. You can it some one and YES blood has come out 2.5 to 3 sec later. Its called a delay. But you just cant hit anywhere you have to know what point to hit at what time, and what day, and what season. If you know those you will get far. OH Yea I also for got. People that say they know any thing about dim mak and the points they probably only know the medical points NOT THE MARTIAL POINTS, and YES there is a BIG difference.

Just out of curiosity how many points are there that works?

There is more if need be.
Mantis King
With repect.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 29, 2006)

Mantis King said:


> All those answers are not quit there yet, But on the right track. Dim Mak or the real name is Dim yuet is real. Without a doubt and it has nothing to do with hypnosis, it has to do with the body&#8217;s mechanics, time of the day, the four seasons, and other things, etc. A good 90% of all the people that I&#8217;ve meet or has said that they know it really do not. Back to basics: 1st the real name if Dim Yuet meaning Touch point, Dim Mak means Touch energy. But most Americans and even instructors don&#8217;t know. So they give dumb Americans the standard name Dim Mak. In china the two arts that are most famous for it is Bak Mai, and South Mantis. South mantis is the controlling factor in china they don&#8217;t even call it south mantis the real name is acupuncture boxing, or the machine gun art. That is the art that in china that real mad it famous. In Japan it might be Ninjutsu I think it&#8217;s been a long time. Some one said that the throat is a weak point; yes it is but just like most of any body part you can condition it. I myself have had many students punch my throat with no effect. Its not magic it years of learning how to protect it and condition it. As for suggestion on someone, I think not I have been all over the world and have seen famous people say that they can hit you or touch you or tell you to fall and you go. Well brace yourselves those people that fall are morons. Not one of them could do it to me or my teachers, and we laugh at them and tell them to stop bringing false hope those are called charlatans. Or what they like to call EMPTY FORCE people. NOT TRUE. Dim Yuet is not ease to do or learn it takes years and I mean Years. Everyone is talking about points, yea what else, there is more to it. You can it some one and YES blood has come out 2.5 to 3 sec later. It&#8217;s called a delay. But you just can&#8217;t hit anywhere you have to know what point to hit at what time, and what day, and what season. If you know those you will get far. OH Yea I also for got. People that say they know any thing about dim mak and the points they probably only know the medical points NOT THE MARTIAL POINTS, and YES there is a BIG difference.
> 
> Just out of curiosity how many points are there that works?
> 
> ...


 
You wouldn't happen to have the Chinese Characters or Pinyin for that would you because as far as I know in China Southern Mantis is I believe

&#21335;&#27966;&#34739;&#34690;
nán pài tángláng


And is Dim Yeut something outside of Traditional Chinese Medicine as taught to Traditional Chinese Medical Doctors in China? Meaning made up from points they would not know


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## Mantis King (Dec 29, 2006)

Well first nan pai tong long is madarin, which is not right. Some will say mantis is catonese. they are wrong. Real south mantis is Hakkaese which there dialect is strange. LOL if you know what I mean. I'll have to in my notes for the writing put southern mantis is a standard name for the art but because it is fames for there death hits or inch power(which is not called bruce lees one inch puch, Make NO mistake bruce lee got his inch power form not wing chun, it was south mantis.) they call it The accupunture style or machine gun style. When you say south mantis most people think nothern mantis in china because norrthen is more popular then southern, because south mantis was only tought to a small group of people in the village. It's funny nothern mantis is more famous but it to came from south mantis. Anyway yes Dim Yuet is not to my knowledge used in the medical field it is a martial arts term at least in china. Yes the medical points are different then the martial arts point.

Mantis king:asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 29, 2006)

Mantis King said:


> Well first nan pai tong long is madarin, which is not right. Some will say mantis is catonese. they are wrong. Real south mantis is Hakkaese which there dialect is strange. LOL if you know what I mean. I'll have to in my notes for the writing put southern mantis is a standard name for the art but because it is fames for there death hits or inch power(which is not called bruce lees one inch puch, Make NO mistake bruce lee got his inch power form not wing chun, it was south mantis.) they call it The accupunture style or machine gun style. When you say south mantis most people think nothern mantis in china because norrthen is more popular then southern, because south mantis was only tought to a small group of people in the village. It's funny nothern mantis is more famous but it to came from south mantis. Anyway yes Dim Yuet is not to my knowledge used in the medical field it is a martial arts term at least in china. Yes the medical points are different then the martial arts point.
> 
> Mantis king:asian:


 
Yes I know its hakka.

And I know it as Dian Xue but all I know the Mandarin, it sometimes takes me a bit of time to catch on due to translation from one dialect to another and then throw in Wade Giles vs Pinyin and it gets worse.

When it is Chinese I always and better off with the characters, it is just easier to figure out

Thanks


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## 7starmantis (Dec 29, 2006)

Mantis King said:


> It's funny nothern mantis is more famous but it to came from south mantis.


 
Off topic, but I would love to see you start a thread and discuss the origins and history of southern mantis. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on how northern mantis came from southern mantis as well. I've not heard that claimed before, sounds interesting 

7sm


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## Mantis King (Dec 29, 2006)

7 Star mantis,

With the utmost repect to you. Do you want the truth or the version they have been saying for years.

Mantis king


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## terryl965 (Dec 29, 2006)

Mantis King said:


> 7 Star mantis,
> 
> With the utmost repect to you. Do you want the truth or the version they have been saying for years.
> 
> Mantis king


 
I think everybody wants the truth but in reality the truth is always cloudy, so with that being said I would like to hear your version. I know I'm just responding to this thread and I'm a TKD and Karate guy but history in all Arts is a hobby of mine so if you could elabroate for me I would appreciate it.


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## Mantis King (Dec 30, 2006)

Well lets start by saying a good 90% of all martial artist has never gone and did research on there style. And when I say research I'm not talking about the internet or taking what there teacher says has the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Ive lived in china for 3 years speak it, lived the culture, and wanted to know why things are as they are. Even to the point of why the doors are red. Why certain weapons are black or brown. What is the symbolic reasoning for things? With that in mind let start with the temple:

*The Hong Kong Tourist Association *
*Publishes an annual guide which lists the *
*Jook** Lum Temple** as an attraction.*

From "Visitor's Choice" in the New Territories is the following listing:

Originally built in 1927, this Buddhist monastery, which means "Bamboo Forest Monastery" in Chinese, has been restored. Today, the stone structure houses three of the largest "Precious Buddha" statues in Hong Kong. Visitors can see the monastery by joining the H.K.T.A.'s "The Land Between Tour."

Now that is not the original Temple, it is the third one that was built and then destroyed. Although, the original Bamboo Forest Temple was located in the South China Province of Kiangsi, a branch Temple built in Hong Kong in 1927, is listed in the Official Hong Kong Guide as one of H.K.'s many tourist attractions.

Now if you spend 3 years in china and spend well over two hundred thousand dollars and do real research you will find the answer that was not told because of the temple was destroyed. Any of the artifacts or paper that was retrieved is now at the local museum. Any way if you look at the paper work and speak or read Chinese you still would have trouble understanding the writing because the writing is the old version that they used. so you make but bull**** accuses to higher a historian that can read old writing and pay them $400.00 American dollar to go over the stuff with them in the room, which by the way is 3,200 there money, And see the monk, priests, nuns, guest that was at the temple and who was ordained and pleased. And died from floods, poisons, infection, executions, ect.

Any way the manuscripts, (and there are 30 to 40 of them left) reads like this, and Ill give you the short version because the truth will be out soon on TV.

A nine year old Tibetan monk and yes I didnt believe what was read to me but back then things were different, yes a 9 year old monk came to Jiangxi province became a monk at the Jook Lum temple and was *ordained* Som Dot and helped cook. It says that he left back to Tibet, became a senior monk and was invited back to Kwongsai Province Mount Dragon Tiger by the Taoist pope Chang Tien Shih where he learned Tai Chi boxing and sword as well as the temples herbal medicine doctor. Until the age of 26 where after the beginning of the third stage of his Buddhist priest hood, he spent many years wandering as before returning and settling to MT. Dragon Tiger, where he served as a cook.  

Then it say things like cook was picked on BLAH, Blah, Blah but what was so profound in the records it states that The Abbot asked where he suddenly have this kung fu which Som Dot said he noticed a bide trying unsuccessfully to devour a praying mantis, The mantis won, as you know the story, but Using the Shaolin martial arts theory Som Dot collecting 18 praying mantises and watching them for 3 years which then he incorporated the arts that he learned it is said that he new different arts, and states them. Showing hes knowledge I guess to what he learned, what ever!.  As with customs back then there was a annually test of fighting ability. Basically he beat the top guy, the abbot asked how this was possible and he explained. It goes more in-depth but that is the just of it. 

He became the abbot of the original Jook Lum Temple. Where he is buried which I have the photos and film. This is where he oventally settled and died. But know:

It is said that Som Dot accepted two disciples Lee Siem which was *ordained* Seim Yuan or (Buddha Lee), and Wong Do Yuen which was *ordained* Wong Long. FACT!!! It states that he was illiterate but diligent despicable. It states that they made the mountain, stages of training and told them to spread hes art by going down the mountain. Remind you they both did not know the whole art. Wong was the first to step off the mountain and it is he never returned, ect, ect. Lee taught Chu Bot Long which created CHU GAR, or CHOW GAR same thing.

If you what more details you will have to see the show or write to my and leave your number and Ill be happy to talk to you about it.

Oh yea one more interesting thing that was said Lee Siem was said to have fought an Shaolin Monk Fung Do Duk who was thrown off a cliff to his death by Lees three scissors and soft bridge tech.


Ps: you to can do the research dont be fooled by people just hearing other people say it you have to go look yourself, and I promise you will find the truth. Dont worry I to was shocked.

Mantis King:asian:


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## 7starmantis (Dec 30, 2006)

Mantis King said:


> 7 Star mantis,
> 
> With the utmost repect to you. Do you want the truth or the version they have been saying for years.
> 
> Mantis king



I'll keep this short as not to hyjack the thread. I can understand your mindset having done the research you have done. I've done quite a bit of research myself and I understand the whole truth vs. story issue. I was simply interested in your findings that supported your statement about northern mantis being derived from southern. I read your post above, looks like you have done quite a bit or research on the topic. 

Have you heard of the Mantis Quarterly put out by Sifu Steve Cottrell? You might find it interesting, he is a big historian and researcher of the mantis style. I myself am not as much a researcher or historian as some. I prefer to spend more time training than researching, but different people have different personalities in the arts 

Good to have you here at MArtialTalk, look forward to reading more of your posts. 
Ok, you guys can have your thread back! 

7sm


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## Mantis King (Dec 31, 2006)

No disrespect, 

You say:
You prefer to spend more time training than researching,

But make NO mistake.
Theres an old Chinese saying: If you dont know where you came from, you wont know where youre going.

Just remember History of your art is the root of your art. With out it you can not bloosom.

Good luck in your training.:asian:

Mantis king


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## edwardcloud (Jan 1, 2007)

It cause pain or temporarily paralysis or death. But i dont think that the people would know those that stop a person from moving or talking these days. 

It should be a lose art or at least something that only a few will have known.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 1, 2007)

No disrespect but&#8230;



> Martial practice will benefit from the study of literature &#8211; Tung Ying Chieh





> Being scholarly without martial energy is like having something and not using it. Being martial but not having knowledge, is like having something but not knowing how to use it. The bottom line is that one hand cannot clap &#8211; Tung Ying Chieh





> In the old days people had better Gong fu because they emphasized practice over theory. Modern day students tend to emphasize theory rather than practice. Too many theories can distract your training &#8211; Tung Ying Chieh



Now I tend to do a lot of study into the theory, philosophy and origins of the styles that I train. And I tend to do a whole lot of study into the histories and origins of many Chinese martial styles and I know this does cut into my training so I think it is better to work towards achieving a balance between the 2 rather than worrying about whether or not someone does to little or to much of either.  

Sorry about the off topic bit but I felt it was needed.

Back to the topic of Dim Mak, Dim Yuet, or Dian Xue. However you want to say it.


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## EternalSpringtime (Jan 1, 2007)

Speaking of the history. It's interesting, but most martial arts history is common and well known e.g: Wing Chun. The mysterious part lies more upon technques like Dim Mak and the internal arts variations, since many people don't know what they even are. I guess there must be a thread discussing this issue. I like to learn more about this stuff,

All the best,
Ahmed


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