# Ammo



## Cryozombie (Jul 28, 2003)

I know there has been a lot of talk (and arguments and disagreements etc etc...) regarding ammo.

I had a certain brand of ammo reccomended to me and I want some opinions of the claims by the ammo manufacturer.  Im not gonna mention names, although I am sure that if you wanted to find out WHO this manufacturer is it would be easy... But my question is... is what they are saying accurate, or is it propaganda to sell ammo?

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			Hollowpoints that are moving too slow, or limit energy transfer with a "controlled expansion" design can over penetrate - going straight through with little effect. Energy that passes through the selected target is wasted energy and can cause harm to unintended persons or property. Your intent is to STOP the aggressor that is bent on doing harm to you. Regardless of the situation, you will have to account for your actions and every round that is fired.

There continues to be a misconception that a heavier bullet somehow has more energy and that a long deep wound channel is necessary. That may be true in a hunting bullet, but in close quarters combat, the trade of less weight and added velocity is a positive increase in energy. Energy is energy and if effectively transferred into the target - it does not matter whether it is energy from a 9mm or a .45 ACP.

(OUR BRAND) ammunition is tested against common barriers. When shot through four layers of heavy material, (including leather) the (OUR BRAND) bullets retain adequate velocity to reliably expand. Tests against windshield glass and car doors proved that the high velocity (OUR BRAND) bullets did not deflect from their intended path and still expanded well into a gelatin medium. Car doors and windshields are no barriers to (OUR BRAND) high velocity ammunition.
		
Click to expand...

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## Richard S. (Jul 28, 2003)

i work in a gun shop. part of my duties includes testing new and existing ammunition on our indoor range. we are the people that the manufacturers worry about because we can dis-prove or validate any claims made within a matter of minutes.


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## Richard S. (Jul 28, 2003)

i guess what i was trying to say in a roundabout way is the mfg. co's.  know that there are people out there that will verify everything they claim before the product is sold.........respects.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 30, 2003)

Yeah?  Can you reccomend a good Self Defense round for a .45 auto?

Thanks man!


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## TLH3rdDan (Jul 30, 2003)

first post. everything any manufacturer states in an add will be slanted to prove their point of view other wise no one would by their product... is what they are saying accurate yes... but unless you have seen the statistics in black and white from a non-biased test then i would simply ask around at some local gun ranges or even some dealers and see what they think of the round chances are someone has seen it or used it...

second post. a good self defense round for a 45acp... i personally carry federal hydra-shocks in mine...


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## Richard S. (Jul 30, 2003)

i agree with TLH. hydro-shock is a good round. but, for expansion, i like speer gold dot hollow points better. corbon also makes a real sweetie called pow-r-ball thats a hollow point with a nylon ball in the recess making it virtually jam proof (feeds in anything-no stovepiping) or the old golden saber with a recess about the size of a sewer hole (hehheh) if over-penetration is an issue look into the frangibles like magsafe or extremeshock.......good luck to you and please be safe with your handgun.......respects.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 30, 2003)

Thanks guys. :asian:

My previous handguns have all been 9mm , this is my first .45 and the woman at the ammo counter basicaly listed off 10-15 brands when I asked for a good self-defence round for it, and told me to choose.

I purchased CorBon ammo, because that is what was reccomended to me for my 9mm, and that's who's quotes were above.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 5, 2003)

TP,

Ok partner, have a seat and lets go for a ride  

First off, I have nothing against Cor-bon, in fact I've had many talks with Terry M. over the years.  Great guy!  But he has a product to sell.  Things like..



> Energy that passes through the selected target is wasted energy



...are warning signs.  'Energy' is a buzzword in the ammo industry.  Yes one needs energy to perform work, such as open up a hollow point.  But they use it in terms of kinetic energy, energy dump, stopping power, one shot stops are industry terms to be very wary of.

Second, bullet 'energy' as applied above, when talking about handgun power levels, is inconsequential.  It is pitiful until one gets into the high power rifles arena.  

Third, the only things that have any reliability in actually stopping another human being are a CNS shot or a hit in a vital organ.  And the second is by no means a guarentee!  You need a round that can have a reliable chance of penetrating deep enough to hit either of those two things.

In terms of what you NEED a bullet to do, I offer the following;

1.  Reliability.  If a bullet will not function properly in a consistant fashion it is useless.  I recommend running at least a couple of hundred rounds through to see how they function.  If they feed without problems you should be fine.

2.  Penetration.  I bullet needs to penetrate deep enough as we discussed above.  I will not trust my life to buzz words like 'energy dump' etc.  

3.  Accurate fire under stress.  This is more the shooter than the round.

Anything else is not nearly as big a priority.

In 9mm I use a 124+P Gold Dot.  It is what our agency issues and I'm most familar with it.  It has done very well for us in shootings.

In .45 I use a 200+P Gold Dot.  Again it is what our agency issues an it works very well in our shootings.

Hope this has made some sort of sence and helps.  

:asian:


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## Cryozombie (Aug 5, 2003)

Yeah thanks.

On a total side note I just came back from the range and I put 100 rounds thru my new Ruger P90...  Woo Hoo is that thing accurate.  I was never fond of my P95... I couldnt hit Jack or his friend ShXX 

I thought my shooting SUCKED until I used my friends Sig... Then I knew it was my gun.

I was a bit hesitant to purchase the P90 cuz of that, but it performed VERY WELL.


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