# How do YOU teach women in crisis?



## shesulsa (Oct 18, 2011)

Anyone here done a seminar for women in crisis, e.g. at a women's shelter?  What did you present and how did you present it?

Teaching self-defense to people in crisis can be tricky; curious what everyone here thinks.

Thanks!


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## Master Dan (Oct 18, 2011)

The last 16 years I have worked with children and women victims of abuse on many levels and it is a complex issue on many levels but since you asked about women I will focus there. You need to be more specific what you are looking for. There is consideralbe mental health issues beyond just physical defense to deal with. A major ones are self worth, chemical or other dependency issues, past abuse by family and others. I like using foam clubs to help with defense issues and the first time I had a large group not knowing of pas abuse some would just freak out and be tramatized. Many have posturing issues and closing eyes totally undefensable so you need to start with control of the eyes and posturing issues and conditioning to not freak over potential contact.

Frankly the prevention issues are thier best hope, breaking the cycel like co dependency and no matter what no matter how any many of these women get good at simple defense techniques if they have alcohol or drug issues they have to learn no not make themselves defenseless and not hang around dangerous people.

We just had a 21 year old girl murdered last week by boyfreind drinking he choked her then sliced his arms up blood all over and video tapped it while she was alive and then playing guitar sitting next to her after shes dead the police took the camera this kind of stuff happens all the time up here if I can get girls from 8-12 in training and learn not to go for the first looser that smiles at them they have a pretty good chance and frankly many of my female students have done serious damage to attackers with long rap sheets. It comes down to self worth many times and learning not to be a victom and I find many of the Femnist defense programs to be a load of crap. If you want real specifics PM I will give you more off line


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## aedrasteia (Oct 18, 2011)

Programs working on self worth _are_ feminist programs. Working - is the word that counts.

Not the _instructor_ talking about self worth or instructors lecturing and repeating over and over and over again 
empty bromides about self worth (and elsewhere wondering 'why don't these women defend themselves?')

learning 'not to be a victim'?  how do you guess they 'learned to be the victim' in the *first place*?
Georgia's experience about the girls correctly reading the conflict about 'politeness' is a tiny 
place to start. Unpack _that_ episode in her class and instructors can begin a small step to change.
And the problem isn't with the little girls, some of them were just smart enough and honest
enough to point out the double-bind they can feel. 

why/how  does an 8-12 year old girl learn 'to go for the first loser that smiles at them'? 
 what are 8-12 year old girls learning every day ?  who or what are they learning from?

sadly, MA training w/out the 'other stuff' is often little help when the assault/abuse comes from
 inside the circle of family/friends. And that's the way over 80% of it happens. 

And for clarity- the people who kept hammering away on this piece of reality: "_There is consideralbe mental health issues beyond just physical defense to deal with. A major ones are self worth, chemical or other dependency issues, past abuse by family and others." _were those feminist people...back in the 70s when the attitudes about abuse and assault were even worse than today and the issue of 'self worth' among women/girls being the core of SD4W was a joke among men in MA and SD.
 Its still a joke for some; for most guys in the field, even the many, many good guys, its just incomprehensible, confusing.
They'll be the first to tell you 'I don't get it' and they are right. They don't. But they could, I think - maybe I'm
too optimistic.

_'the first time I had a large group not knowing of pas(t) abuse some would just freak out and be tramatized.' 
_speaks for itself. 99% of instructors screw up this way, not meaning to, but don't put in the effort and time
to learn this part or blow it off.

Dan, I'm glad you learned to possibly do something different today. Put it out here where everyone can learn.
thanks


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## Cyriacus (Oct 18, 2011)

Thisll sound a bit odd, but give them a Punching Bag and let them work it for a while. Any dummy with some guidance will find it somewhat (at least) outletting, and its easier to correct minor errors until theyre punching straight and deep. Its a start.

Given a week or two of that, one could step it up.


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## jks9199 (Oct 18, 2011)

You can't really teach them IN crisis.  You can teach them during the situations that result from crisis... but tread carefully, because there'll be a whole lot of emotions running wild there.


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## Master Dan (Oct 18, 2011)

aedrasteia said:


> Programs working on self worth _are_ feminist programs. Working - is the word that counts.
> 
> Not the _instructor_ talking about self worth or instructors lecturing and repeating over and over and over again
> empty bromides about self worth (and elsewhere wondering 'why don't these women defend themselves?')
> ...



Exactly all your points are well taken and it took along time working with behavior health and other professionals that can be beneficial in working with these people and I would like to add it is not just the female gender but boys and even men I work with that have deep seated abuse and trama issues and before you want to start trying to teach physical defense it helps to know more back ground on the environment the person comes from that takes time to work with before they can possibly step up and begin the process of healing at the same time of getting stronger it is at the core of what a Martial Artist should be a healer first and a defender second. It is about the human condition and the spirit and people who say it is just a business or a sport fine but not for me and not for many of those original pioneers of Traditional Martial Art. We have one of the highest rates of suicide in the world here a few years ago we were called Murder Town USA in the National Enquirer and the movie the 4th kind was based on our town due to so many missing people. I would also like to add that Ihave had great progress working with violent youth offenders who also are a product of what hass been done to them


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## aedrasteia (Oct 18, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Anyone here done a seminar for women in crisis, e.g. at a women's shelter?  What did you present and how did you present it?
> 
> Teaching self-defense to people in crisis can be tricky; curious what everyone here thinks.
> 
> Thanks!



thanks for caring about this Georgia. I've learned much from your posts. 
This post is about what is necessary for instructors first. more later

my comments apply to *any* class for girls and women.

Resilience - the ability to tolerate and recover from stressful situations is the first key. Obviously, if the participants
are overwhelmed and unable to learn they either leave the class or mentally/emotionally withdraw. or be in terrible shape.
Its the instructors job to work with them to build their resilience, first, and sustain it during. Each person will 
be different.

*Every* class - every one - has women survivors in it. Some are in visible crisis, some are survivors non-disclosed to you 
as the instructor,  many can't face it for themselves. the circumstances of a class can put them at big risk for more damage. 
And nobody can 'just tell', so responsible people prepare under all circumstances.

At a shelter/survivor class I work directly w/participants and staff to make sure everyone is working at an intensity level 
they can tolerate without overload. And that can change inside the class or from one class to another. and it is
different for every woman. some can tolerate everything, for others watching and listening is right at the edge 
of what they can sustain. that's fine with me. I commend them for that step.

In poorly done classes I've observed some will hide their struggle to cope till they get home - and never come back to a class. I'm always sad and sad when guys running classes complain about the women who start and don't come back, so many of the survivors hide behind stories about  other reasons - often leaving is the only way they believe they can get out of a situation that puts them *_way_* over their ability to cope. 

In a way, they themselves are practicing a form of SD - taking themselves out of an experience that brings back
all the stuff they know they can't handle. 

I start there. I name and discuss overload and let them know they can leave the floor and sit out or leave the room 
to regroup, at any time. I only need a check-in from them and we will figure out together what needs to happen next for them. No embarassment, no ridicule, no spotlight on them.

ANd because we learn ways to 'put on the brakes'   *before we do anything else, *they can actually do active things 
to keep themselves from sliding into an emotional/psych tailspin and crash if they feel it starting.  They are the ones taking this action, getting back in control. Its a _huge_ positive.

This is learning another form of  real self-defense. Taking care of themselves, without anyone, especially me as the instructor, becoming irritatedor impatient or puzzeled. 

In a shelter setting (where I have worked with abused women and homeless women)  some material almost everyone can 
tolerate listening to and practicing, but the key is working with the staff *,* knowing who needs different help and support 
and of what kind. 
*Survivors of abuse, assault, rape, molestation are experts on their own experience. 
*They know more than any instructor about how they survived, as best they could, in impossible situations. 
And they try to resist, even when it isn't resistance most men and MA instructors would recognize. 

You are never starting from zero with them. Never.

 They *always* resisted, even if the only way they could was to turn their face to the wall while it was happening.
Sometimes you start right there.

You listen to them. you ask the right questions and listen carefully to what they tell you. 

you start by building emotional/psych safety and support into every class from the first moment. 

As the responsible instructor You must already know and know how to use and teach, physical and verbal grounding, centering  and recovery techniques to keep women from sliding into re-experiencing the horror so fully that they sustain more damage  (and I mean actual damage to the limbic/endocrine system) through adrenaline overload and crash. It should be a central element of the skills every SD4W instructor brings to every class but even more so to working with identified survivors.

No instructor is a therapist or counselor - no one expects that. But instructors have to work with staff in a shelter
and for me its a requirement that I understand whats happening and have access and back-up with people who 
have worked in this. I'll add cites later.

Every SD instructor needs to understand the neurobiology of trauma and how to incorporate that knowledge into every
class with women and girls. This knowledge means better and more effective classes.
 Working with directly identified survivors and NOT knowing is so irresponsible it is nearly criminal.

(interesting interview w/MM instructor) http://www.womynwarrior.com/2011/03/interview-mark-vinci-of-model-mugging/

and core competencies for instructors  http://www.womynwarrior.com/resources-2/nwmaf-self-defense-instructor-core-competencies/

with respect,


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## JohnEdward (Oct 18, 2011)

I think people under estimate the difficultly of such a venture. I agree a bad class can have a real negative impact. It is more than just teaching technique in scenario based class. You are dealing with three levels, emotional, psychological and physical. Two of which are in delicate states. The third being the right application that doesn't become a trigger.  

Good luck!


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## MA-Caver (Oct 19, 2011)

My own personal experience is limited to more counseling than  self-defense. Meeting these women before/during/after a meeting of a  well known 12 step program and helping them understand the program as it  were and then over time hearing their stories and hoping at least (for  me) that they understand not all men are worthy of distrust, scorn and  regrettably fear, that they can be trusted to be decent human beings who  actually cares. There was never a sense of romance in any of these  "friendships" I've had as I was not legally a counselor but knew the  program they were in well enough to advise and be a sympathetic ear and  encourage them to seek out help beyond what the program can offer. And  yes, recommending that they take SD/MA classes on a regular basis. 
This  was mainly to bolster their own self-confidence, self-esteem, self  doubt and self worth as they grew and became strong enough to help  others like themselves. 



JohnEdward said:


> I think people under estimate the difficultly of such a venture. I agree a bad class can have a real negative impact. It is more than just teaching technique in scenario based class. You are dealing with three levels, emotional, psychological and physical. Two of which are in delicate states. The third being the right application that doesn't become a trigger.


This is true but my recommendation is that they train with all female instructors at first (if possible) so that at least they come back into the next class somewhat or totally eager to try it out on a male instructor/assistant. The men (again if possible) should be more like "drones" emotionally void as it were, just a body to practice on and neutral encouragement. Being ukes.
It's going to vary with each student of course but I believe over time each of them will obtain enough confidence to deal with being in *ahem* close quarters (and simulated violence at that) with a man.  
Realistically... not all of them are going to pass the muster to do so.


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## shesulsa (Oct 19, 2011)

I know that as an abuse survivor that the separation between victim and aggressor used to be a very concrete one - violence, i.e. the actual act of hitting rather than the *person.* After all, bad people hit, good people didn't.  This is wrong thinking, obviously, but when I was in crisis and presented with a weapon to use against my aggressor, I tossed it aside rather than move forward and potentially ensure my safety largely because I refused to identify myself as being an aggressor of any kind. Hence, I really doubt going in with a bag and gloves or sticks, etcetera, is really the way to go.

I'm thinking allowing the women in attendance to drive the course, for the most part; asking what THEY want to talk about, how they see self-defense helping them in their lives and what THEY want to learn to do and going from there.

I'm looking for best practices here.

Interesting feedback so far - thanks, and keep it up!


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## Jenna (Oct 19, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> I know that as an abuse survivor that the separation between victim and aggressor used to be a very concrete one - violence, i.e. the actual act of hitting rather than the *person.* After all, bad people hit, good people didn't.  This is wrong thinking, obviously, but when I was in crisis and presented with a weapon to use against my aggressor, I tossed it aside rather than move forward and potentially ensure my safety largely because I refused to identify myself as being an aggressor of any kind. Hence, I really doubt going in with a bag and gloves or sticks, etcetera, is really the way to go.
> 
> I'm thinking allowing the women in attendance to drive the course, for the most part; asking what THEY want to talk about, how they see self-defense helping them in their lives and what THEY want to learn to do and going from there.
> 
> ...


I think you are correct in that aggression is something most of us in similar situations dislike even to the point where we MAKE ourselves become victim by our reticence to see it as defence.  I think the change particularly for women is subtle and but important and that is I think to move from _aggression _to _defence_.  Few of us would ever be natural aggressors and but it is our God given right to DEFEND ourselves.  

I have never presented and but have attended a course which was taken by a sage lady and who made this point and even at that stage there was a sense of -as you say- perpetuating an aggression: the thing that we despise most.  And she put it that were we being attacked by a rabid animal then to spare our health and lives we would _not _be the aggressors, rather defenders - and those that would seek to take our liberty to exist freely without harm have thus ceded their right to be viewed differently from such attacking animals.  Likewise she put it that we are never looking to defeat anybody -it is not a case of that- and but rather to live without physical harm or fear of it.  

Aside from that, being competent in defence precipitates the building of confidence and which I remember was a frightening concern for most women.  To get to the point of realisation that you are confident in your defence allows you in turn to function in the world with greater confidence, to not be bullied, to never be put upon.

As well, I think there is more to self defence than fighting with fists and feet.  There is also an aspect of defeating one's _own _demons through gains not only in physical strength and but also in mental fortitude which comes from success in learning one's own defence.  Likewise, few who have not done physical exercise, let alone martial art type disciplines cannot know the amazing positive effects our activities have upon depression- and anxiety-related conditions.  This can move a woman from that pit of despair into the light again that they thought they wouls not see.  I think this is never to be underestimated either.

I think there is a great deal of scope for opening this out and moving it away from "hitting them harder than they hit me".  I wish you well.  I think you are the person to deliver it fittingly.  Please say how it goes, I would be interested to know, Janna xo


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## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2011)

I haven't worked with abused women from a martial arts point of view but my daughter coaches a couple of women in her cheer leading class who have been abused  We were talking about it the other day, what seems to help them is gaining confidence in themselves, being able to learn something and show it off in competitions etc, (so often they've been told they are stupid, thick etc) and the strong support of other women who can show them by example that not all relationships are violent, that a woman can be strong etc. My daughter also said that treating them as 'normal' without judgement is important, they can blend in for a couple of hours doing something physical and fun. With the fitness and physical work comes confidence and they feel more able to cope with whatever (as we all do!). The military psychiatric department is very keen on fitness as a way of helping PTSD sufferers so there is something to it. The cameraderie of the girls in the cheer club is the same as it is in a martial arts club, with encouragement and appreciation of efforts being important.
My daughter has broached the idea of my doing a self defence session or two with all the women and girls, I'm thinking about it so am reading this thread with interest.


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## shesulsa (Oct 19, 2011)

Thank you Tez and Thank you, Jenna!

When I first embarked upon this endeavor, one of the counselors at the Y strongly suggested that you NEVER ask "why" - as in "why don't you just leave" or "why not call the police" or "why didn't you defend your children then?" This goes to the judgementalism that Jenna spoke of.  When you start asking those questions, you lose the trust of the women. "Why" is not a question they can answer with anything else but either "because I love him" or "I don't know." They, themselves, don't know why, so the answer becomes defensive and you have now put yourself as an aggressor - someone they will no longer trust.

I know I will get absolutely nowhere with these women if I can not quickly establish some level of respect and trust.


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## Master Dan (Oct 19, 2011)

I would also like to mention that I teach prevention especially for travel driving or flying to other cities how to plan trips and reduce risk in all types of shopping senarios


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## mook jong man (Oct 19, 2011)

I have taught an Islander lady before that was abused by her husband , one time after I had taught the class a mount escape she told me that she had wished she had known the technique before .

She went on to say that there was an instance where her abusive ex husband had sat on her and repeatedly smashed her head into a concrete floor.

She was a very nice lady , but maybe as a result of the trauma she had been through , when she trained with the other women she would act as though it was a real fight and injure the partners , being an Islander women she was also quite a bit bigger than the other ladies.

I ended up having to make sure she always trained with a man or myself , not that I'm not a man , well you know what I mean.

It's just something to watch out for , you might get some that are a bit timid , but you might also get some that are pretty aggro.


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## Flea (Oct 20, 2011)

I recently went to a training given by SAMHSA on trauma.  It had much more of a clinical focus of course, but I think a lot of it could apply here as well. One of the biggest lessons I got from it is that healing and recovery begin the moment the trauma is over.  As such (and this is consistent with much of mental health care) the survivor is the teacher and the healer, because they know best what they need.  It is therefore the role of the clinician/therapist to build on the self-healing practices the survivor already has in place.  

I also found it interesting that the presenter came back to the theme of social justice several times.  He said that it's integral to trauma recovery in many ways, from criminal justice on an individual level to broad social reform to correct climates that condone or encourage atrocities.

I think there are some good seeds there for martial arts practices, and if it weren't so late at night I'd dig a little deeper.  Maybe in the morning.  Hope it helps.


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## shesulsa (Oct 21, 2011)

Yesterday's workshops at the YWCA were awkward. Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over.

A mother-daughter team did better than the others - likely because they had each other.  

A couple of women broke down and cried - fortunately some counselors were there for them.

One lady, the last to leave, said the dreaded phrase as she left: "I just don't want to hurt anybody."

I'm convinced that the one-shot approach IS NOT SUFFICIENT.  And I wonder how many of them would try it again.

It kinda blew my mind that these are women in crisis - living with the violence everyday and they are getting therapy and ... are still too fearful to fight for themselves. This is different from the standard class I teach to women who are more afraid of violence from strangers.

Whew. Just ... kinda ... wanted to get that out.  I want to continue this discussion but I'll need to write more later.


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## Carol (Oct 21, 2011)

Wait ... are they paired up with one another for training? 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## aedrasteia (Oct 21, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Yesterday's workshops at the YWCA were awkward. Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over.
> A mother-daughter team did better than the others - likely because they had each other.
> 
> A couple of women broke down and cried - fortunately some counselors were there for them.
> ...



Georgia

thanks and bless you for the honesty to post this. Lots for all of us to learn from this experience and I'll do
my best to add value to the conversation. None of these painful/unsuccessful experiences are in any way 
surprising or unusual. And nearly 99% can be avoided, anticipated and often, turned into 'teachable moments'
that can benefit everyone  (including us as instructors, women and often survivors).

No surprise that participants said or indicated (or that you believed) _"Some women were ready for hands-on stuff, but once hands were on, they  went instantaneously into freeze mode - their fear took over."_

Participants (both survivors and others) regularly and predictably overstate their readiness - lots of unsurprising
 reasons for that - *they want to be seen as brave, they want to please teachers by being 'tough', they are deeply
ashamed of being 'cowards, losers etc*.' They want to do something - anything differently. 

think of all the contemptous labels given to beaten women.
Not knowingly by you, Georgia, but the women carry those labels in with them. Lots of bafflement and dismissal
from the larger community and especially MA, and sometimes LE and the legal world.

As an instructor, part of my job is to assess that - to know how to assess their readiness carefully.
(and sometimes I'm incorrect too). Its part of that responsibility to make sure they are working at 
the outer range of their capacity - *but never getting overwhelmed* to the point that the entire amygdala/adrenhaline
endocrine system goes sliding into a spiral that re-activates the abuse experiences.

Several things I can guarantee. They will not be overwhelmed/swamped by the experience - no matter what has
happened in the past - they will experience some successes (no matter how small to an outside observer) and they
will leave with at least one tangible, measurable skill (verbal, cognitive,and/or physical) that they can actively use
in their specific situation.

This link describes what I wrote about previously - I'll post about actively using/adapting for classes with
women/girls. http://home.webuniverse.net/babette/Brakes.html

bless you for caring so much Georgia, you have my appreciation and respect.


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## Tez3 (Oct 22, 2011)

Out of my depth here but I was thinking is it possible to teach them something like traditional karate or Judo before you get to the hands on stuff? Perhaps a Chinese style or Tai Chi first so they get a feel for physical movement and a sense they can do something before they start learning SD? Perhaps something like a basic kata, as you can get a sort of meditation from doing it as well as achievement when you've learnt it, then move on to Bunkai?
I know that women who haven't been abused find sparring and SD quite difficult because of this problem of them hurting people. Most don't mind getting hurt, it's hurting others that's the problem.


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## Jenna (Oct 22, 2011)

In attempting to alleviate pain, we sometimes have to bring that pain to the fore.  Here I think as women we feel we are having to confront what we want to put away.  I think that is always going to be an obstacle to overcome.  And in your course I am thinking it is like unconvering a wound that we want to help heal, though the very uncovering process can be too painful to bear.  I think the very best thing you have done is to admit honestly to yourself that it felt awkward.  And but not only to yourself, to your students.  Then there is less pressure on you to "perform" and everyone can be open.  Be honest with everyone.  Your determination to HELP will stand out.  It is ok to make mistakes.  Mistakes are learning vehicles.  We are human and we are all flawed and this will never be a mathematical science.  Have you lost students?  I hope not.  Please let them know how much you want to help.  Please let them know that you are not going away.  Show that by organising more courses.  These women, there is often nobody to trust.  You do not even know that Police can call by or counsellors will be available on weekends when something happens.  Please Georgia, continue to be the presence and the force for these women.

I want to chip in with Adrasteia, I think you are being courageous to post this up here and but it is important -and will continue to be- perhaps in a bigger context than you appreciate and so please continue on!!  I will say again that our own experiences are sometimes the most pertinent and sometimes we are chosen for certain tasks without perhaps knowing the whole of it.

I would say perhaps there is a need to call this a workshop rather than a course.  Then you can have a framework and but the participant students can flesh out the substance ad hoc as you all throw in your opinions and perhaps it will help the women involved open up.  It is a problem I know in revealing weakness.  We want to appear invincible and but too often we are self-deluding.  I guess that kind of difficult exposing of one's weakness sometimes comes as leadership from the front.

I think I do not know enough to give proper expertise.  I only know that I wish there had been a woman with your expertise and understanding where I was some time back.  Please post some more, Janna xo


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## shesulsa (Nov 7, 2011)

I will return to this discussion this evening after a talk with leaders and parents at a local volunteer meeting (see my girl scout thread).


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## shesulsa (Nov 8, 2011)

I think it must be imperative to sell the case for self-defense to these women - to help them make the leap from abhorring physical force as they relate it from a victim standpoint to its use for self-protection. I also think it has to be a progressive, ongoing effort - progressive for the same group of women together.  I've been looking at the statistics for trying to teach prevention and self-defense to people who have already been victimized and are currently in crisis and it does not appear to be very effectual in these cases.


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## Brian King (Nov 8, 2011)

A very good and needed conversation, respects.


I would like to share two perspectives I try to carry with me when teaching any class. These have made me a more effective and healthier instructor.


*THE STUDENTS
*
Theres a post I wrote long ago here on Martial Talk in the interesting thread  On Perspective, and Being Impressed 


snip/


> I had my perspective changed by my teacher pointing out long ago the heroes around us as we trained. We all know the many people that say they would like to learn martial arts. We know some people that actually go so far as to research the different arts and schools around their home. We know even fewer actually get up the courage to drive to the school and walk in thru the door for their first lesson. Some stick for years others just that single lesson. That courage to walk in the door the first time, that is what I find impressive. The humanity and humility on display at every lesson as normal people face their fears and learn to overcome them. The strength and courage of the ordinary student learning body movement and contact, the housewife that is coming terms to past abuse, or the soldier/cop learning to deal with the special stresses that action professions can produce. Watching these heroes face their challenges and become better people while overcoming them often times leaves me in wonder and speechless. What really fascinates me now, is that I can see people overcoming these type of challenges outside of the martial arts now that my eyes and heart can sometimes see past my own battles and ego.




By seeing all the students for the heroes that they are we limit our judgmental selves, we temper our own ego, we can gain inspiration from the ordinary around us, we can change our own internal monolog and perhaps influence others into more positive beliefs and internal monologs. All by merely witnessing, acknowledging, and appreciating others struggles. We can see everyone as victims as life is trauma and drama filled or we can see most everyone as heroes as they try to make it thru life. Funny little aside is that how we see others is a mirror on how we see ourselves, a mirrors reflection that we can purposely alter.


*GET OUT OF THE WAY*


Instructors have worked hard to gain the information that they are sharing. This information if absorbed and applied correctly can and does save lives and is important and worthwhile. 


That said, my perspective as a Systema instructor is that I do not teach anything, I help point out things, I set up drills and exercises that help the students explore and learn from different situations and contexts. It is the student doing the work that teaches. The instructor and other students should help to facilitate rather than getting in the way and blocking that learning. 


*POSSIBLE PRESENTATION MATERIAL
*
For myself I base my own personal training on mostly working on awareness, sensitivity, movement and breathing rather than trying to come up with specific responses to specific attacks. Contexts can be added, parameters can be set to safely work on specific situations.

_Zombie drills_
An interesting drill is to have the students pair up. Have ten to twenty feet separation between the two students. Have one student walk towards the other student. Their job is to walk with a steady pace straight at the other student but if and when that other student moves to stay on the original course two or three steps past where the other student was previously standing. The student standing has two simple jobs, to keep breathing and to get off the line of attack. Not to fight back, not to draw weapon and engage (that all can come in later progressions of the drill), just simply recognize the line of attack and get off that line. The should move the instant they recognize a spike in their psyche, their breathing changes, sweaty palms, itchy neck, tension in the shoulders, dipping of the head, whatever their own manifestation of the stress, once recognized they should start their movement. It should be very relaxed and unhurried, no matter what the speed or intention of their training partner (attacker) coming toward them. This can be repeated three or four times then the roles are switched. 


What we are hoping to have the students recognize and explore in this type of drill is their reactions to proxemic stressors, how continued breathing acts upon these reactions (going back and forth between parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous systems) and how even simple movements positively effects the reactions (even if the chosen movements are not the best or most sound tactically) Movement resolves conflict, the conflict can be with another, it can be internal, it can be verbal or physical. Doesnt matter, movement resolves conflict.


We are tricking the students into learning body awareness, communication, and sensitivity survival drills dealing with violence and confrontation but are dialing way back the violence and confrontation. Too much violence and confrontation can overwhelm the students physiology, emotionally and spiritually. It is much easier and safer to SLOWLY dial up the contact and stress that it is to repair the harm done from being greedy for recognizable progress and going too fast too far with the students. In Systema we tend to think of this kind of slow progression stress tempering as cracking the egg but not breaking it. It requires that the instructor have patience, grace, and calmness and that they keep the students exploration eager, patient, calm. 


The drill can be dialed up progressively as the students get better at dealing with incoming stress. A simple progression is after pairing up get them in groups of three and now have two people coming towards them at the same time, two lines of attack to recognize and move off of (important that the walkers do not become heat seekers and just follow the student as they move of the line, their job is to pick the line of where the student is and walk it not ending their walking until a few steps past where the student was standing) The next progression is to keep the movement continuous. The walkers (or zombies) walk past the student a few steps turn around locate the person that is it pick a new line of attack and walk it. (As the zombies turn around, the instructor can add arm and hand movement so that they are actually exploring how to turn when confronted from behind, locating the it person they are expanding their abilities to quickly recognize where confrontation is and where it is going- keeping track and tracking) The person moving off the various lines of attack is working a higher level of stress, learning to move off multiple lines of attack at the same time, learning how to continuously move while breathing and remaining calm. They are learning how to healthily deal with stress and confrontation on all kinds of levels. Further progressions is to add more zombies, have the zombies hold out their arms a la Frankenstein with their hands open (simulates grabs) or fisted (simulates punches)- at first the zombies keep the arms out with out moving them but then a further progression has them chambering the arms and punching/grabbing the air (robotically) regardless of where the it person is as they walk. With each progression depending on where the students are, the drill can be dialed back at each new stress introduction by lessoning the numbers of zombies. Other progressions once a higher level comfort with contact is to allow the it person to reach out and touch the zombies as they walk past. Not hit, not punch, not push. Just touch. Then later, touch to the face or back of the head. Eventually harder contact including trips and throw can be added to the progressions. 


The instructor must retain the awareness, flexibility, and experience to always step the drill back to allow everyone to catch up if some are falling behind. All should be learning no matter the experience of the person in the middle of the conflict, zombies, it, the instructor, people watching from the sidelines...all.


*PUTTING THEM BACK TOGETHER*


The training offered and explored by people in crises is often traumatic to the soul and to the body. Care should be taken to allow plenty of time to have the students help each other put back the broken pieces, to smooth out the bumps and rough patches. A successful training that has had break throughs (unlike what many psychologist and counselors seem to think) does not end with the student sobbing on their way out the door. After a breakthrough or a breakdown put the students back together. Deep breathing calm type of exercises, massage, simply walking and breathing in a square pattern (equal number of steps for each of the four phases of breathing) Send them out the door with a calm strengthened psyche and the experience of learning how to recover to this good internal state.


*SUMMARY* 


See the students, perhaps broken, weak, ill, disabled, aged, but heroes all. Let the training train, get out of the way of the learning. The students are human and will make mistakes, suffer poorly made decisions, quit, fight, resist, withdraw. It is OK and should be expected and appreciated, these are some of the things that make us human. Do not take it personally, all are eating off their own plate. 


Remember, YOU cannot heal, fix or save, you can only facilitate and guide. Let the training train, get out of the way of the learning. The training should offer strengthening and healing as well as possible future protection. Fear should be understood and lessoned with the training. Above all the students should not be further harmed. 


Let the training progress slowly, tempering the students on all of their various levels, physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual, safely and honestly. 


Develop in yourself those skills and abilities you wish your students/family/friends to develop no matter their or your own momentary circumstances. 


If doing this kind of training for any length of time understand right now that you will lose some. If that happens let it help guide you and strengthen you to see what is really important in your own life.


Good luck 
Warmest Regards
Brian King


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## shesulsa (Nov 8, 2011)

Brian, you have posted gold here.

Please know I celebrate these women having the courage just to show up. I know how hard it is and what strength it takes - and believe me, I am with you that anyone taking the next step is a hero.  

I still feel a strong responsibility to do the very best and offer the very best chance for these women.  Taking personally what I glean as deficiency or inadequacy to meet this task is part of my drive to improve.

Thank you for this. I'd rep you for it, but I guess I have to spread it around more.

Respectfully,

Georgia


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## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2011)

I think there is a lot one can take out of Brian's post for teaching all women not just those who've suffered abuse. The way many have been brought up as Shesulsa mentioned in her other thread about it not being 'nice' to defend oneself and many women's inate fear of violence means that teaching them to do any martial art can be more difficult. Of course many women are fine but perhaps if we could get through to women about the good of self defence and doing martial arts we could have fewer abused women to start with?


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## aedrasteia (Nov 8, 2011)

Brian

deep gratitude and thanks, more later. so glad to see these - I do similar ones and will share them here
right now, gashho


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## Buka (Nov 8, 2011)

What a great thread.


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## shesulsa (Nov 9, 2011)

Buka said:


> What a great thread.



Yes!  The needs of people currently in crisis are unique and not often understood.  It is SO VERY COMPELLING to ask why they don't just leave or why they don't just call the police, etcetera.  The power and results of the grooming process are so VASTLY underestimated.


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## Monroe (Nov 24, 2011)

How are instructors supposed to know if a student in their class is a victim? (Aside from classes specifically for victims.) Are they expected to teach every session as though they might have domestic violence victims in that class? It seems like a tall order. And it seems too much of an assumption that all of these victims never fight back. I'm sure that's true of many, but I saw enough of my aunt and uncle's fights before they divorced to see that she fought back. I think she always lost, but she did break his nose one time with a frying pan.


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## Brian King (Nov 26, 2011)

There are hundreds of thousands of people making a difference...Instructors, teachers, coaches, no matter the title all are making a difference. What makes an exceptional instructor? An exceptional instructor learns to think what is good for the individual player in the short-term and the long-term. They learn to see what the player truly needs to reach their full potential. For example; when a parent asks their kids coach how the team is doing and if there will be a successful year, the good coach will give an honest appraisal and answer. But, the exceptional coach will say that it is too early to tell, come back in twenty or twenty-five years and ask the question. Will the young kids have turned into community leaders, have successful marriages, become loving parents? If so then yes, it was a successful year. 




> How are instructors supposed to know if a student in their class is a victim? (Aside from classes specifically for victims.) Are they expected to teach every session as though they might have domestic violence victims in that class? It seems like a tall order. 



For the martial arts instructors teaching adults, there are a number of paths of instruction that can be taken. Whether it is competition, art preservation, self-defensive, paying it forward obligational. No matter the path, the exceptional instructor will teach themselves to see the students wholly. This includes where they are currently at emotionally, physically, and spiritually. And to also see their future potential. Even as adults, neither the instructor nor the students have yet reached their full potential. For the student whether currently dealing with crises or dealing with past trauma or being at the more experienced stage of life and mentoring others in life's struggles there is still growth and feedback that the exceptional instructor can help facilitate in my opinion. 


The exceptional instructor remains a student of life for life. Today as never before there is an abundance of available information on all aspects of teaching that flows across disciplines and fields of study. 


Expertise in all things is not necessarily needed or required but being open minded and willing to learn new skills and attributes is just one of the hallmarks of an exceptional instructor. Exceptionalism might be a calling, but, it is not a tall order. It can be achieved over time by those willing to do the work.




> And it seems too much of an assumption that all of these victims never fight back. I'm sure that's true of many, but I saw enough of my aunt and uncle's fights before they divorced to see that she fought back. I think she always lost, but she did break his nose one time with a frying pan.



Traumatic events have a ripple effect so even those that did not directly suffer from the trauma can exhibit symptoms of dealing with the trauma. For example, somebody who comes across an auto accident and sees the corpse of a young child. This person could have symptoms of depression, insomnia, trouble sleeping, hyper-arousal, anger/irritability, dissociation behaviors even though they were not directly involved with the auto accident. It happens. So a student might be displaying some trauma symptoms but that does not mean necessarily that they themselves suffered the trauma. 


This is all interesting but only peripherally dealing with women in crises. I agree with jks9199 that you cant really teach them while they are in crises. The first step for dealing with crises in my opinion is to deal with the crises, only after that might the healing work begin.

Regards
Brian King


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## jks9199 (Nov 27, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> You can't really teach them IN crisis.  You can teach them during the situations that result from crisis... but tread carefully, because there'll be a whole lot of emotions running wild there.





Brian King said:


> This is all interesting but only peripherally dealing with women in crises. I agree with jks9199 that you cant really teach them while they are in crises. The first step for dealing with crises in my opinion is to deal with the crises, only after that might the healing work begin.



Let me expand a little...

You can't teach someone in the midst of crisis.  Their energy and efforts are focused on simply surviving the crisis.  And a crisis like we're discussing here often lasts for days or weeks, though they can be precipitated by a single event.  If you realize that you have a student in a crisis like this, you have to change your tack with that student; work on moving them through the crisis and supporting them, realizing that any real teaching about reacting to the crisis will have to wait until they're in a different emotional place.  Some signs and symptoms can include hypervigilance, inappropriate or inconsistent emotional reactions, and difficulty with focus (again, either too much or too little).  They may kind of run in loops, making the same mistakes over and over, or just seem "stuck."

At that point -- it's time to realize, first, that you may well be out of your depth!  You can't provide intensive emotional/psychological aid unless you have the appropriate training.  What you can do is provide band-aids and support.  That may just be letting the training hall become a place of refuge for them as they rebuild their strength and work through the crisis.  You can listen -- or simply let them be quiet.  Then, in time, when they've moved out of that crisis, you can start giving them the physical confidence through learning solid skills that may keep them out of the crisis in the future.

Note again that I am not suggesting MA as a substitute for appropriate professional aid and counseling.  There are major limits in what we can do, unless we have the proper training.  (I know, some MA teachers do indeed have the training.  But it doesn't come with a black belt...)  It's comparable to a street cop handling a suicidal subject.  We're not going to fix the underlying problems.  We're simply trying to give them enough rope to cling to so that someone with the right tool set can actually help them.  And that's the role of most martial arts teachers in dealing with a person in a crisis like we're looking at here.


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## shesulsa (Nov 27, 2011)

I have to agree - I think a small part of me wanted to do more with what I have to offer than I reasonably can even though I *knew* this going in.  

That said, the venue has promise, I think. We had counselors there for the women who broke down, they gave input throughout and the one or two who were ready to springboard or to at least take the information in for future use and were fine with the use of physical force might be able to use it appropriately (hopefully).  It would unquestionably have to be a progressive, multi-session and multi-faceted workshop - not just one seminar (almost goes without saying).

I don't need to do this for me or for my own recovery - I just see this ongoing problem having the same approach as always and women still getting lost in the shuffle - there doesn't seem to be much effort in bridging that gap.  I don't like giving up on people and even should I have to withdraw physically, a part of me continues hoping because that's what I believe in. If all I can do is plant a seed that manages to grow later, that is a victory for the person, not me.  And I can't stop thinking there is something more that we as teachers have to learn, to give, to share, to serve.

Thanks to everyone for your input - this is good sharing and I'm learning much.


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## Flea (Nov 27, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> If all I can do is plant a seed that manages to grow later, that is a victory for the person, not me.  And I can't stop thinking there is something more that we as teachers have to learn, to give, to share, to serve.




Yes!  And students in crisis can take away a lot more than just the physical skills.  It can be tremendously helpful to learn other related things like the physiological effects of trauma - the adrenaline dump, fight/flight/freeze, and the psychological aftermath.  Think of how cathartic it can be for someone who thought they were the only one having flashbacks, or blamed themselves for freezing!  That alone is well worth the cost of admission, even if they never come back.

One thing I was trying to get at with my last post was that people in immediate crisis or recovery know, on some level, what they're doing.  They're there for a reason, even if they decide later on that it wasn't a good idea.  It's always tempting to try to take over for someone we perceive as helpless or overwhelmed, but ultimately that's destructive.  I think the best thing a teacher can do is express unequivocally that they have faith in the student that they know what they're doing in their recovery process, and that they *will* recover in their own time and way.  You can do that without even coaxing someone onto the mats at all.


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## Brian King (Nov 29, 2011)

Borrowing heavily from a lecture I heard awhile ago, Col. Grossman was giving a talk to a deploying local Army medical unit, during the PTSD portion of lecture he was saying that PTSD is more like the flu than pregnancy. You can have a little or a lot, it is not all the same. People in crises can be thought the same way I think. Not all crises is equal. I am saying this so that martial arts instructors and students reading the thread do not feel overly intimidated when interacting with people that may or may not be in crises. Some people are addicted to drama, others are catching the crises before it becomes life or death and some might be in the midst of terrible crises. There is often a large difference between two people each facing a different crises. Do not let fear hinder your readiness to intervene. It can be as little as offering an ear to listen to as much as transporting to shelter or something in-between. 


A person does not have to be a professional to help as long as their eyes are open to what is or might be needed. One thing anyone can do is recommend to someone organizations that can offer help. It would be nice to have a sticky thread perhaps that professionals like jks9199 and aedrasteia, others that volunteer in the mental health field like Flea, or others like shesulsa that have survived crises, can post resources that the instructor or student can access. While every area has shelters or programs that are specific to that geographical location there are generic places that people can look to for assistance. For example, the YWCA often has programs, the boys and girls clubs have information, community centers have information and perhaps organizations. Often local law enforcement officers will know of shelters and other immediate assistance.  I do not know of a church that does not have some programs and no you do not have to be a member of that church to access the help. This kind of information an instructor can have at hand to help the student in crises. This would make a useful sticky thread perhaps?


Back on to the topic of the OP

When giving courses to people in crises it is important to understand that the severity and terms of the crises will vary amongst the students. Some might be in the midst of crises others might be on the tail end of recovery. Understanding this is important as is taking the time to review the material available to teach. Often what to not teach is more important that what to teach to have a successful program. When figuring out what to teach, exercises and drill that teach principles that will be universal to the women no matter where they are in the journey should ,in my opinion, be emphasized. How material is presented is of importance. Giving them overconfidence in techniques or the illusion that they will successfully fight off a loved one with this or that technique is setting them up for both physical and psychological damage in my opinion. Yet, giving them possible options to help facilitate survival and possible immediate escape could be beneficial. Giving them options to think about and plan for prior to crises situations is beneficial. Giving them the mental and physical tools to deal with the flight, fight, or freeze dumps that they may experience prior, during and after crises is important. Giving them some practice in dealing (recovering) from this kind of stress responses is a great use of their time. Anyway there is a few more ideas for both crises workshops as well as regular martial arts practices. 


Regards
Brian King


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## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2011)

Lt Col grossman is a great speaker.


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## Flea (Nov 30, 2011)

> This kind of information an instructor can have at hand to help the student in crises. This would make a useful sticky thread perhaps?



At the risk of thread-jack, I'd love to collaborate with someone on this.  If anyone is interested, please PM me.


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## Flea (Nov 30, 2011)

And one other thing comes to mind.  You already know this, Shesulsa, but it always bears repeating.  Take care of yourself as you work with people in crisis, and put your own emotional needs and stability first.  No apologies, either.


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