# Self defense against a cougar



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 6, 2019)

Not strictly martial arts related, since it doesn't mention if he's a martial artist. But it goes to show you should always be aware of your surroundings-you can be attacked anywhere.

US runner suffocates cougar after attack


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## Christopher Adamchek (Feb 6, 2019)

This is a good point of:


what you can do when you fight with everything you got when life depends on it 
even without martial training how increased physical fitness improves the odds of survival in encounters
how humans SUCK! - as often these sort of attacks are because the animal is malnourished due to humans destroying the habitat and ecosystem


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## Tez3 (Feb 6, 2019)

Do you have to fight them? Just give in. How to Know if a Woman is a Cougar


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2019)

I was just going for a people vs animals thing.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2019)

When I hike, besides my hiking stick, I always carry my spear head with me. If I attach it on my hiking stick, I can fight against mountain lion if I have to. I bought it in Renaissance Festival for about $45. I have hiking stick with knife in it. But the quality is not good enough for serious combat.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Do you have to fight them? Just give in.


To find enough meat resource in the woods is survival skill no 1. When a cougar attack you, to that cougar, you are it's meat. To you, that cougar is your meat.

I had carried my .44 Magnum (with 50 rounds) and fishing pole and disappeared in the Montana mountain (from lake to lake) for 3 weeks. That 3 weeks was quite a challenge. Strongly suggest people to try at least once in their life time.


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## wanderingstudent (Feb 6, 2019)

I've often thought about manufacturing some kind of Kevlar neck wrap.  Most big cats attack from behind and kill by suffocation.

I've also thought about carrying in state parks.  Would it be better to have to answer for that, and be alive or the other alternative?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 6, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> To find enough meat resource in the woods is survival skill no 1. When a cougar attack you, to that cougar, you are it's meat. To you, that cougar is your meat.
> 
> I had carried my .44 Magnum (with 50 rounds) and fishing pole and disappeared in the Montana mountain (from lake to lake) for 3 weeks. That 3 weeks was quite a challenge. Strongly suggest people to try at least once in their life time.


I think you're using a different definition of cougar than Tez. At least, I hope so...


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I think you're using a different definition of cougar than Tez. At least, I hope so...


I didn't know that cougar = women.


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## JR 137 (Feb 6, 2019)

I wonder what PETA’s response will be?  My bet: he shouldn’t have fought back and taken his deserved punishment for encroaching in the cougar’s territory; he’s a murderer.

Just wait.


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## Tez3 (Feb 7, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> To find enough meat resource in the woods is survival skill no 1. When a cougar attack you, to that cougar, you are it's meat. To you, that cougar is your meat.
> 
> I had carried my .44 Magnum (with 50 rounds) and fishing pole and disappeared in the Montana mountain (from lake to lake) for 3 weeks. That 3 weeks was quite a challenge. Strongly suggest people to try at least once in their life time.




Please read my post carefully, killing women is murder.


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## Tez3 (Feb 7, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I wonder what PETA’s response will be?  My bet: he shouldn’t have fought back and taken his deserved punishment for encroaching in the cougar’s territory; he’s a murderer.
> 
> Just wait.




I wouldn't go as far as saying it's murder but there is a point in that humans encroach on animal habitats and kill them. it's something we ought to be more careful about.


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## JR 137 (Feb 7, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't go as far as saying it's murder but there is a point in that humans encroach on animal habitats and kill them. it's something we ought to be more careful about.


Every whacked out PITA statement has a tiny bit of a good point. They almost always start out rational for a minute, then just completely go off the deep end.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 7, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Do you have to fight them? Just give in. How to Know if a Woman is a Cougar


That's what I thought when I saw the title, Tez. "Why do I need to defend myself, again?"

(This is the kind of comment that makes the Hobbit roll her eyes at me.)


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 7, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Please read my post carefully, killing women is murder.


Well, not if they're trying to smother you from behind.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 7, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I hike, besides my hiking stick, I always carry my spear head with me. If I attach it on my hiking stick, I can fight against mountain lion if I have to. I bought it in Renaissance Festival for about $45. I have hiking stick with knife in it. But the quality is not good enough for serious combat.


They aren't typically going to let you see them before they attack - cougars are ambush hunters, mainly.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 7, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> They aren't typically going to let you see them before they attack - cougars are ambush hunters, mainly.


Wait...which cougars are you talking about here?


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## Tez3 (Feb 7, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Wait...which cougars are you talking about here?




Meet UK's cougar queen who has dated more than 250 toyboys

Sounds exhausting!!


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 7, 2019)

drop bear said:


> I was just going for a people vs animals thing.


"monkey on the back?"  I like how that monkey got into him.  First problem was probably showing the monkey that he was afraid.  If he wanted that money off the bike, he should have approached like a predator getting reading to eat.  Act like he's trying to sneak up on the monkey vs acting like he's trying to stay away from it.



JR 137 said:


> I wonder what PETA’s response will be?  My bet: he shouldn’t have fought back and taken his deserved punishment for encroaching in the cougar’s territory; he’s a murderer.
> 
> Just wait.


PETA are extreme with their animal protection.  Many should volunteer themselves as a food source or go live in the wild in order to get a better understanding that not all animals are helpless and if you put yourself in a bad position they will make sure you know that.  They don't practice in balance, which should be more of the push.  Balance with nature vs letting nature run uncontrolled or humans run uncontrolled.



Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't go as far as saying it's murder but there is a point in that humans encroach on animal habitats and kill them. it's something we ought to be more careful about.


There's a difference between hunting and killing something that's attacking you.  Man or beast.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 7, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Meet UK's cougar queen who has dated more than 250 toyboys
> 
> Sounds exhausting!!


Not really.  She's probably like a cat.  Leaves the lifeless body on the doorstep after she's done playing with her prey.


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## Martial D (Feb 7, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Not strictly martial arts related, since it doesn't mention if he's a martial artist. But it goes to show you should always be aware of your surroundings-you can be attacked anywhere.
> 
> US runner suffocates cougar after attack



I got attacked by a cougar once as a young man.

If that happens again it's fine because I'm likely to be older than her.

No but seriously I did, not so much attacked but agressively approached. I yelled and picked up my bike over my head to look bigger. The thing ran off.


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## Kemposhot (Feb 7, 2019)

Read in another article that the Cougar was young and not fully grown which explains how he was able to fight it off.  Either way, that’s gotta be some scary moments.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2019)

I use to work a tree farm that had a resident cougar and our self defense was a







and a


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Wait...which cougars are you talking about here?


You know, I'm not sure anymore.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> I use to work a tree farm that had a resident cougar and our self defense was a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the approach they'd take in Wyoming. Still a lot of area there that's not really tame, at all.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That's the approach they'd take in Wyoming. Still a lot of area there that's not really tame, at all.



Don't know what it was, but I had a much better chance with the 44Magnum. I was a fairly good shot with that. However the 30-06....not so good. This was in the mountains of Pa., where there were we were told there were no cougars.....so the rather large cat that looked a lot like this





That my uncle saw, did not exist...nor did the tracks that were there either. There was also a big old male black bear there too, had a den right on the property, but we were not all that concerned about him


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Don't know what it was, but I had a much better chance with the 44Magnum. I was a fairly good shot with that. However the 30-06....not so good. This was in the mountains of Pa., where there were we were told there were no cougars.....so the rather large cat that looked a lot like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'd be less concerned about a black bear, too (we have them around here). As for the cougar, they're pretty secretive, and are often discovered to live in places where they are thought not to exist. A hunter in our area tells me he's spotted spoor of one several times in the area he lives in (heavily wooded for hundreds of acres in all directions), and has even heard it a few times from a distance, though they are reputed not to be in the immediate area.

And I'm probably better off with the revolver, too. I've fired many thousands of rounds out of handguns (both revolver and pistol) and only a few hundred out of long guns. The quick accuracy needed for that situation, I'd much rather have the .44.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 8, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Don't know what it was, but I had a much better chance with the 44Magnum. I was a fairly good shot with that. However the 30-06....not so good.



I'd stick with the handgun anyway. Because these animals are ambush hunters. Basically, by the time you see it, it's likely to be too close to get the muzzle of the rifle in line. If it's far enough away to use a long gun, *it's not hunting you* and you should leave it alone.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 8, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I hike, besides my hiking stick, I always carry my spear head with me. If I attach it on my hiking stick, I can fight against mountain lion if I have to. I bought it in Renaissance Festival for about $45. I have hiking stick with knife in it. But the quality is not good enough for serious combat.


How long does it take you to attach that to your stick? do you practice doing that too, or just training with it?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd stick with the handgun anyway. Because these animals are ambush hunters. Basically, by the time you see it, it's likely to be too close to get the muzzle of the rifle in line. If it's far enough away to use a long gun, *it's not hunting you* and you should leave it alone.



I never saw it, never needed to use any gun on it, and if I did see it, and it was not bothering me, I would not bother it. My thought was it had way to many deer to choose from to bother us.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, I'd be less concerned about a black bear, too (we have them around here). As for the cougar, they're pretty secretive, and are often discovered to live in places where they are thought not to exist. A hunter in our area tells me he's spotted spoor of one several times in the area he lives in (heavily wooded for hundreds of acres in all directions), and has even heard it a few times from a distance, though they are reputed not to be in the immediate area.
> 
> And I'm probably better off with the revolver, too. I've fired many thousands of rounds out of handguns (both revolver and pistol) and only a few hundred out of long guns. The quick accuracy needed for that situation, I'd much rather have the .44.



I always thought it was rather interesting that the state of New Hampshire said it had Cougars and the state of Vermont said it didn't. Apparently Cougars are good at not crossing state lines


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 8, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> How long does it take you to attach that to your stick? do you practice doing that too, or just training with it?


I have a wax oak spear pole. I made it shorter for hiking. I always attach the spear head on my hiking stick when I hike by myself. Other hikers always give a weird look when they see me. So I take my spear head off when others are around. How to protect myself in the woods against grizzly bear is always my concern. I have less fear with mountain lion than grizzly bear.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> I always thought it was rather interesting that the state of New Hampshire said it had Cougars and the state of Vermont said it didn't. Apparently Cougars are good at not crossing state lines


They're trying to avoid federal regulations.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2019)

I should also add I know NH has cougars. I was trailing a moose once for fun, when I was in high school, and then I came across some rather big cat tracks following the moose. the moose tracks took a right across a swamp.... the cat tracks went around. I tried to follow the moose further and that is when I sunk up to my knee in mud. Luckily I got out, almost lost my boot..... in retrospect, seeing as moose are basically big 4 legged bulldozers and not any as friendly as Bullwinkle, and that a Cougar is not something you want to track....I came to the conclusion that 12 grade high school kids are not all that bright


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## dvcochran (Feb 8, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Wait...which cougars are you talking about here?


Does it matter?


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## Flying Crane (Feb 9, 2019)

I live on the coast south of San Francisco, and we have mountain lions in the area.  I’ve see Park Service critter-cam photos of them up in the parklands around our area.  There are even reported sightings of them walking the streets of my little village in the middle of the night.  I live in a spot with some undeveloped land around me and there was a reported sighting not too long ago within a couple hundred yards of my house.

I’ve got a critter-cam set up on the side of my house, I’ve got a verifiable critter super-highway running along my fence line.  Lots of pics of deer, fox, coyote, raccoons, skunk, opossum, but so far no mountain lions nor bobcat (I’ve seen bobcat in the area, but never close to the house).

I often do my training in the early morning in my driveway, before the sun is up.  I make sure staff or spear is part of my training each time, so I have something at hand if a lion happens by, knowing that they have been sighted nearby.   I’m guessing some lion is probably watching me nearly every time, given they are very secretive and you never know if they are there.

I had a neighbor for a while who is an ultra-marathon runner.  I would see him leave in the early morning for a run before sunrise, with a red bicycle light on his back so he can be seen by cars (few streetlights in the area, and at least part of his run was on the coastal highway).  I always wondered if the bicycle light might be a bit like a laser pointer and could entice a big cat to give chase, like a houscat does with the laser.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 9, 2019)

Tell her you want a commitment.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Feb 9, 2019)

Chi works 900% better.


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## Anarax (Feb 9, 2019)

Tell her she's the same age as your mother


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## JR 137 (Feb 10, 2019)

Tell her it’s not the jeans that makes her a$$ look fat.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 14, 2019)

An update 

Runner who suffocated mountain lion with his foot describes the attack - CNN


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## JR 137 (Feb 15, 2019)

"This is a remote, rare occurrence," Corwin said. "We can count on our hands the very few people killed or injured by a mountain lion in the last century."

Doesn’t matter how few people it happened to when it happens to you


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

cougar, puma, mountain lion, catamount, panther....they very rarely attack humans for food. they are not hungry, they are nature's perfect hunting machine.

when a puma attacks a human, it is almost invariably a territorial action. most attacks from big cats are not fatal-unless the human fights back. they often do not even use their claws, but pummel the snot out of a person with their paws, which in itself can be fatal. they are extremely strong, and make Bruce Lee look slow as molasses.

if you see a puma in the woods, it has already decided whether or not it will attack you. it has already decided to 'allow' you to see it, if it does not want to be seen, you won't.  if it intends to kill you, you're dead. if it approaches you, or displays itself before you, it is curious. have you ever observed two cats having a stand-off? if you are given the opportunity to face off with a big cat, do not back down. stand tall, open your coat to appear as large as you can. no wild animal wants to risk even minor injury that could impair their ability to survive. if you see one and it is not attacking you, it is because it has doubt-do not let it change it's mind by showing fear or running away! you run, they chase, you lose.

if attacked, and you have no weapon? going limp and protecting your head and neck is your best bet. cats will 'lose interest' quickly if their prey does not resist.( unless they have already determined to kill, which they only will for food)  if it wants to kill you, you're already dead.

if you have a weapon, any weapon, good luck, you're facing the strongest, fastest most savage opponent you will ever meet! fighting back without weapon, if it is a juvenile(which is more likely, a young cat will be eager to establish territorial rights, it will not be able to secure a mate until it does) is not an impossible victory, but against an adult cat( who has probably already learned not to mess with humans) it will likely win unarmed, but any weapon will allow you a better possibility of delivering a strike that could cause it to decide you are not worth the trouble, it will choose self-preservation, that is how it reached adulthood in the first place.  if it is already on you and you are unarmed, play dead, same as with a bear.
 won't work on a wolf, it intends to eat you and will whether you are alive or dead.  but a wolf won't likely be hunting alone, either. fight with everything you've got, but they will not give up.


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> cougar, puma, mountain lion, catamount, panther....they very rarely attack humans for food. they are not hungry, they are nature's perfect hunting machine.
> 
> when a puma attacks a human, it is almost invariably a territorial action. most attacks from big cats are not fatal-unless the human fights back. they often do not even use their claws, but pummel the snot out of a person with their paws, which in itself can be fatal. they are extremely strong, and make Bruce Lee look slow as molasses.
> 
> ...





Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> An update
> 
> Runner who suffocated mountain lion with his foot describes the attack - CNN


this is terrifying, but i think it raises some interesting points about feline behavior.

first of all, people need to understand that the laws of nature still apply to us, even though we have created our own ever-encroaching world wherein we can behave unnaturally, without consequence. for every other creature on earth, f*ck up and something will eat you.

animals don't just 'go for a run' in the woods. at every moment they are aware that their life is in the balance.  a man goes running through a mountain lion's hunting ground. he is already running, when the cat decides to attack. to the cat, he is PREY, because prey runs away! when he turned and flailed his arms and yelled, it was too late.  this tactic can work, yelling and even throwing rocks at it may discourage attack if there is a 'stand off' moment. a cat will approach this way if unsure about the level of threat involved, they will scrutinize you for weakness. running away is the worst thing you can do, and if you are unaware of their presence and simply running, they don't know the difference.

he fought back and he won. i don't think the article mentioned the age or size of the cat, but i would be curious to know that. playing dead is one option, they may lose interest if they think you are boring...but i don't know if i myself could do that, but i am me.  i read once about a 80 year old woman who was attacked by a mountain lion while hanging laundry in her yard. it grabbed her by the neck in it's jaws, dragged her half a mile into the woods and beat the snot out of her, no claws. then walked away. so did she, badly hurt, but alive. she fought while it dragged her but went limp when it started pummeling her, it was never about food, just territory.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

Xue Sheng said:


> I use to work a tree farm that had a resident cougar and our self defense was a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None of this is necessary. Approx 30,000 mountain lions in California. Attacks are exceedingly rare. Usually an old, sick or young cat that attacks out of desperation. Most adult humans outweigh adult cougars. You are not on the menu. Some of you guys are sounding a little fearful of what amounts to a large feral housecat. Believe me, they see you, but you don’t see them. It’s not something to worry about for humans.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> None of this is necessary. Approx 30,000 mountain lions in California. Attacks are exceedingly rare. Usually an old, sick or young cat that attacks out of desperation. Most adult humans outweigh adult cougars. You are not on the menu. Some of you guys are sounding a little fearful of what amounts to a large feral housecat. Believe me, they see you, but you don’t see them. It’s not something to worry about for humans.



Whose fearful, we carried just incase, did not stop me from going into the woods and cutting trees out of the trail. Did not stop me from checking the property lines. But I was more concerned about the cougar than the bear, but scared...no. Add to that...that was over 20 years ago


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> cougar, puma, mountain lion, catamount, panther....they very rarely attack humans for food. they are not hungry, they are nature's perfect hunting machine.
> 
> when a puma attacks a human, it is almost invariably a territorial action. most attacks from big cats are not fatal-unless the human fights back. they often do not even use their claws, but pummel the snot out of a person with their paws, which in itself can be fatal. they are extremely strong, and make Bruce Lee look slow as molasses.
> 
> ...


This just isn’t true. They are frequently unsuccessful when hunting and go hungry regularly. They can be convinced to quit a fight they aren’t winning. Playing dead is a TERRIBLE plan. If the Cat approaches in the open, you are seeing a threat display that usually means there are Cubs near. An old man was attacked in this way locally and his elderly wife was able to dissuade the cat from continuing with a ball point pen. It not the same as a bear. Black bears differ in behavior west and east of the Rocky Mountains. Brown bears usually attack because they perceive a threat or are surprised. Black bears west of the Rockies almost always run from people. Black bears east of the Rockies are much more dangerous to people, often attacking people as a prey item. Do a little reading on the subject. ALWAYS fight against a black bear. ALWAYS play dead against a brown bear.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

Xue Sheng said:


> Whose fearful, we carried just incase, did not stop me from going into the woods and cutting trees out of the trail. Did not stop me from checking the property lines. But I was more concerned about the cougar than the bear, but scared...no. Add to that...that was over 20 years ago


Well a huge magnum revolver AND a rifle sounds like maybe you were afraid it was gonna get ya! I’m teasing you and everybody here a little bit on this.


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> This just isn’t true. They are frequently unsuccessful when hunting and go hungry regularly. They can be convinced to quit a fight they aren’t winning. Playing dead is a TERRIBLE plan. If the Cat approaches in the open, you are seeing a threat display that usually means there are Cubs near. An old man was attacked in this way locally and his elderly wife was able to dissuade the cat from continuing with a ball point pen. It not the same as a bear. Black bears differ in behavior west and east of the Rocky Mountains. Brown bears usually attack because they perceive a threat or are surprised. Black bears west of the Rockies almost always run from people. Black bears east of the Rockies are much more dangerous to people, often attacking people as a prey item. Do a little reading on the subject. ALWAYS fight against a black bear. ALWAYS play dead against a brown bear.


by bear i was thinking grizzly, black bears are basically 300 lb squirrels. 

tigers will hunt humans for food, mountain lions will not unless they see them as easy prey(running, or just small).  if it's already on you, and not using it's claws and teeth to finish you, it wants to teach you a lesson. letting may be better for some people than fighting back unarmed, they could end that in an instant. cats are cats, big or small.  the real key is not to appear as prey in the first place, just like with people in that way.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> by bear i was thinking grizzly, black bears are basically 300 lb squirrels.
> 
> tigers will hunt humans for food, mountain lions will not unless they see them as easy prey(running, or just small).  if it's already on you, and not using it's claws and teeth to finish you, it wants to teach you a lesson. letting may be better for some people than fighting back unarmed, they could end that in an instant. cats are cats, big or small.  the real key is not to appear as prey in the first place, just like with people in that way.


Well I have worked with around 40 different tigers, they vary as much as humans in personality. I have only a little experience with grizzlies. I have known and worked with a few black bears, and  you are correct in that MOST of them are fairly nonaggressive. I have extensive experience with mountain lions. They use claws to hold on and kill with a neck bite. Anything else is not an attempt to eat you. Many house cats will attack people, they don’t plan to eat you either (most). There is a big difference between tigers and mt. Lions. They don’t even share the same genus. The real key is not to be afraid Because your chances of being attacked are less than shark bite or lightning strike. You are far more likely to be attacked and killed by the neighbor dog.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> by bear i was thinking grizzly, black bears are basically 300 lb squirrels.
> 
> tigers will hunt humans for food, mountain lions will not unless they see them as easy prey(running, or just small).  if it's already on you, and not using it's claws and teeth to finish you, it wants to teach you a lesson. letting may be better for some people than fighting back unarmed, they could end that in an instant. cats are cats, big or small.  the real key is not to appear as prey in the first place, just like with people in that way.


Not trying to troll you here Tim.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> by bear i was thinking grizzly, black bears are basically 300 lb squirrels.
> 
> tigers will hunt humans for food, mountain lions will not unless they see them as easy prey(running, or just small).  if it's already on you, and not using it's claws and teeth to finish you, it wants to teach you a lesson. letting may be better for some people than fighting back unarmed, they could end that in an instant. cats are cats, big or small.  the real key is not to appear as prey in the first place, just like with people in that way.


I’m a former zookeeper with a special place in my heart for cougars. I bottle raised one and I will never be the same after him seeing me as his momma even when he was all grown up. It changes your perspective once you have that relationship.


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Not trying to troll you here Tim.


that wasn't for you! i appreciate your responses, and i've only talked with and attended seminars with people who actually work with big cats. i've read and studied with animal behaviorists, but don't have the experience you do.  i am glad to hear even objections to anything i say, if it comes from a place of offering a more complete perspective, so that all may increasetheir awareness.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> that wasn't for you! i appreciate your responses, and i've only talked with and attended seminars with people who actually work with big cats. i've read and studied with animal behaviorists, but don't have the experience you do.  i am glad to hear even objections to anything i say, if it comes from a place of offering a more complete perspective, so that all may increasetheir awareness.


I knew who it was for but I didn’t want to seem like I was piling on to you either. God knows I’m trying not to be ruthless. Lol.


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> your chances of being attacked are less than shark bite or lightning strike. You are far more likely to be attacked and killed by the neighbor dog.


this may also have to do with the general frequency of humans entering a mountain lion's territory, or vise-versa. given a choice, they would rather avoid us, but we just keep pushing.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> this may also have to do with the general frequency of humans entering a mountain lion's territory, or vise-versa. given a choice, they would rather avoid us, but we just keep pushing.


This is true. They are all over L.A. and with 30 million people, attacks are still incredibly rare. That said, anything will fight when cornered.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> None of this is necessary. Approx 30,000 mountain lions in California. Attacks are exceedingly rare. Usually an old, sick or young cat that attacks out of desperation. Most adult humans outweigh adult cougars. You are not on the menu. Some of you guys are sounding a little fearful of what amounts to a large feral housecat. Believe me, they see you, but you don’t see them. It’s not something to worry about for humans.


I agree, except for the assessment of it being essentially a large, feral housecat.  They are definitely not that.  They are actually built to take down prey that outweights most humans considerably, antelope and such, to a few hundred pounds, several times their own weight.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> by bear i was thinking grizzly, black bears are basically 300 lb squirrels.
> 
> tigers will hunt humans for food, mountain lions will not unless they see them as easy prey(running, or just small).  if it's already on you, and not using it's claws and teeth to finish you, it wants to teach you a lesson. letting may be better for some people than fighting back unarmed, they could end that in an instant. cats are cats, big or small.  the real key is not to appear as prey in the first place, just like with people in that way.


Black bears are incredibly strong and quick and can grow into the 500+ pounds range.  Definitely not something to be trifled with, even if there are behavioral differences in different regions.   Black bears are well deserving of respect and caution.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m a former zookeeper with a special place in my heart for cougars. I bottle raised one and I will never be the same after him seeing me as his momma even when he was all grown up. It changes your perspective once you have that relationship.


I don’t know if you have ever been to the Folsom zoo sanctuary down here by Sacramento.  We have several mountain lions and black bears in our little zoo.  Fascinating animals, we love that place.  Would love to get a job there but I do not have a background in biology or veterinary medicine, or a related field, so no luck so far.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

Nice


Xue Sheng said:


> Whose fearful, we carried just incase, did not stop me from going into the woods and cutting trees out of the trail. Did not stop me from checking the property lines. But I was more concerned about the cougar than the bear, but scared...no. Add to that...that was over 20 years ago


 Very nice holster btw.


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## dvcochran (Dec 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd stick with the handgun anyway. Because these animals are ambush hunters. Basically, by the time you see it, it's likely to be too close to get the muzzle of the rifle in line. If it's far enough away to use a long gun, *it's not hunting you* and you should leave it alone.


We have a fairly severe coyote problem in middle TN. Been that way as long as I can remember. I never leave home without a pistol and a long arm. 
It is on hold right now, but we used to get a minimum of $22 for each coyote. More for a good pelt but that conduit has closed since the state quit paying. The problem is that bad. If you see one you shoot it, no questions asked or considerations made. There are provisions in our state law that allows crossing property lines with just cause in regard to coyote's. They are very invasive opportunists. I have never heard of a person being attacked but they will devastate livestock. 
We have a lot of foxes but they are usually more of an asset, chickens excluded. You occasionally see a wolf. Have heard of panthers in our area all my life but have never seen one so it is reasonable to think it could be a mountain lion.


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## tim po (Dec 30, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> We have a fairly severe coyote problem in middle TN. Been that way as long as I can remember. I never leave home without a pistol and a long arm.
> It is on hold right now, but we used to get a minimum of $22 for each coyote. More for a good pelt but that conduit has closed since the state quit paying. The problem is that bad. If you see one you shoot it, no questions asked or considerations made. There are provisions in our state law that allows crossing property lines with just cause in regard to coyote's. They are very invasive opportunists. I have never heard of a person being attacked but they will devastate livestock.
> We have a lot of foxes but they are usually more of an asset, chickens excluded. You occasionally see a wolf. Have heard of panthers in our area all my life but have never seen one so it is reasonable to think it could be a mountain lion.


a wolf in TN?  I have not heard there are legitamate wolves in the eastern US, but remember that these may not be actual coyotes either. in the NE, they are being called coy-wolves, as it is believed that the eastern coyote, while it was extinct in the eastern US survived in NE Canada, where there was inter-species breeding with red wolves. highly unlikely and very rare, but known to be possible and produce a reasonably stable offspring on rare occasions. 30 years ago i used to see more coyotes that more closely resembled the red wolf in size and marking, even the tawny red color in summer, but it seems to me now i see more large coyote than small wolf, they may be losing some of the genetic traits of the wolf over time. but this has been verified by their teeth and skull shape, they have very different teeth than coyotes in the west.
in the NE we have such a problem with ticks that wild animals are suffering terribly from lyme disease. i think it is why coyote problems have been fewer up here. they don't live very long.


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## dvcochran (Dec 30, 2021)

tim po said:


> a wolf in TN?  I have not heard there are legitamate wolves in the eastern US, but remember that these may not be actual coyotes either. in the NE, they are being called coy-wolves, as it is believed that the eastern coyote, while it was extinct in the eastern US survived in NE Canada, where there was inter-species breeding with red wolves. highly unlikely and very rare, but known to be possible and produce a reasonably stable offspring on rare occasions. 30 years ago i used to see more coyotes that more closely resembled the red wolf in size and marking, even the tawny red color in summer, but it seems to me now i see more large coyote than small wolf, they may be losing some of the genetic traits of the wolf over time. but this has been verified by their teeth and skull shape, they have very different teeth than coyotes in the west.
> in the NE we have such a problem with ticks that wild animals are suffering terribly from lyme disease. i think it is why coyote problems have been fewer up here. they don't live very long.


That could very well be the case here. You occasionally see an animal that is way to large to be thought of as a coyote.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 30, 2021)

A general thing I mention whenever I see the topic come up-please try not to either feed or hunt wolves. They are important for specific ecosystems, and those ecosystems have been getting messed up by the lack of wolves out there, while the fish and wildlife service is actively trying to get the numbers up. Doubt that's true for coyote or hybrids, but if you think it's specifically just a wolf, try not to hunt it. 

Similarly, don't feed it/encourage it to stick around, for more than just the obvious reasons. Wolves that are released and/or caught often have trackers on them, and if they notice that the wolf is hanging around a specific area, they'll likely come by and see why. Last I recall hearing about it, they'd recently arrested someone for feeding wolves when they discovered multiple wolves continuing to come into a specific residential area (not sure if it was first offense).


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have a wax oak spear pole. I made it shorter for hiking. I always attach the spear head on my hiking stick when I hike by myself. Other hikers always give a weird look when they see me. So I take my spear head off when others are around. How to protect myself in the woods against grizzly bear is always my concern. I have less fear with mountain lion than grizzly bear.


Bear spray. Cheap and effective.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 30, 2021)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Bear spray. Cheap and effective.


I'd go so far as to say it's more effective than a spear.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Dec 30, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd go so far as to say it's more effective than a spear.


Less likely to attract a game warden conversation about spear season.


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## MrBigglesworth (Jan 30, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Not strictly martial arts related, since it doesn't mention if he's a martial artist. But it goes to show you should always be aware of your surroundings-you can be attacked anywhere.
> 
> US runner suffocates cougar after attack



To reduce the chances of being attacked by a cougar, avoid certain bars and over 40s nights.
That's all I got.


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