# Autism another thread



## terryl965 (Jun 11, 2006)

OK I have a 8 year old that is a blue belt and he has autism, we handle it pretty well for the most part but what do you guys and girls do to help keep there attention?
Terry
Nu the way he is a student of mne.


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## Ceicei (Jun 11, 2006)

Just to clarify, do you mean autism?

- Ceicei


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## terryl965 (Jun 11, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Just to clarify, do you mean autism?
> 
> - Ceicei


Yea I do 
Thanks 
Terry


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## Ceicei (Jun 11, 2006)

Terry,

Thank you for fixing the title and the original post.  

My questions:  How common is autism? Are there statistics of how many people  (children and adults breakdown) may be autistic?  Are  there different types of autism, or do the different types share common symptoms?

- Ceicei


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## Matt (Jun 11, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> OK I have a 8 year old that is a blue belt and he has autism, we handle it pretty well for the most part but what do you guys and girls do to help keep there attention?
> Terry
> Nu the way he is a student of mne.



I'd need more information to be much help, but I am familiar with autism. 
Verbal or nonverbal?
Tactile defensive?
Motor issues?
Makes eye contact or no?
other behavior issues?
Level of functioning?

When I hear kid with autism, it's only slightly more specific than kid. I've worked with many (I've lost count, but I'd guess over 100) kids with autism or related disorders, and they have all been different. 

The best advice I can offer is: Do the same thing that would work with any kid. 
1.) Be honest. Never tell them to do something (or not do something) that you can't or won't follow through on. 
2.) establish whether you really have their attention before giving an instruction. 
3.) Reinforce them when they do good things. That may mean praise, it may be attention, but it may be something completely different. Make it your priority to find out what it is. 
4.) Provide consistent, reasonable consequences for behaviors you don't want and follow through with those consequences. 
5.) Provide a structured environment. People with autism tend to appreciate predictable structure. Routines. Keep to them to the extent possible. 

Hope this helps, 

Matt


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## Matt (Jun 11, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Terry,
> 
> Thank you for fixing the title and the original post.
> 
> ...



Autism has seemed much more common these days, but used to be diagnosed at about 1:10,000 births with a 5:1 ratio of males to females. It's a disorder diagnosed behaviorally,i.e. one doesn't take a 'test' for autism, but rather gets the diagnosis by acting in a manner consistent with a checklist in a diagnostic manual. There has been talk of an 'epidemic' of autism, but it appears that corresponding to the explosive increase in autism, there have been decreases in other diagnoses such as mental retardation or PDD NOS(pervasive developmental delay not otherwise specified) that seem to reflect a change in diagnostic nuance. 

There is a whole spectrum of folks with autism. There are those who are highly functional, such as Temple Grandin who has a Ph.D., and folks with Asperger's Syndrome, but on the other hand, and more commonly there are folks with some degree of mental retardation. 

Autism is remarkable for a profound social detachment, an inability to see things from another's perspective. Many (most) people with autism have a great difficulty picking up on social cues and contexts. They also tend to have an unusual interest in very specific things, for example the child who instead of playing with the truck stares at the wheel as he spins it for hours. They also tend to have an insistence on 'sameness' and adherence to routine. Many autistic folks tend to have mental processing like a two year old - very concrete. They tend to learn nouns well, but have trouble with abstract concepts like 'happy'. Some never achieve verbal communication. 

Hope that's helpful, but unfortunately it's just the tip of the iceberg. 

Matt


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## Cruentus (Jun 11, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Terry,
> 
> Thank you for fixing the title and the original post.
> 
> ...



Autism is under the umbrella of a larger category called PDD or _ Pervasive Development Disorder _. 

For as much as is known about PDD, there is still a lot that hasnt been discovered or understood yet.

Here are some good links to read up:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/autism.cfm

http://www.nichcy.org/pubs/factshe/fs20txt.htm#define

I was diagnosed, probably inappropriately but who the hell knows, as PDDNOS by some when I was a kid. But, they really couldnt figure me out. I used to say that I was borderline autistic; which was kind of retarded on my part because there is no such thing.

Anyway, I also worked with Autistic kids in the public schools while I was in college.

However, I wouldnt consider myself really knowledgeable on the topic. There are a few parents here who have autistic children who hopefully will give you advice. They are the ones who have been raising their kids and they are the ones who would know a lot on the subject.

Keep in mind that PDD is really broad. I am not of the thought that everyone with PDD or autism is disabled or has a nervous system disorder. I think a lot of people diagnosed simply are wired differently and therefore communicate and process things differently. This isnt always a disability. There have been many people with PDD who have achieved pretty impressive accomplishments. I have even heard of Autistics getting PHds and such. 

Someone who has PDD could range from a really tough case who will never be able to function as an adult on their own to someone who barely has noticeable autistic traits as an adult. This can be hard for some parents to understand; if their child has a lot of difficulty and they see another with the same diagnosis who has considerably fewer problems, it can be frustrating. 

Anyway, I suggest reading up and getting advice from parents and professionals (within the public schools you can find good advice from Special Ed. Teachers and dept. heads who will be very generous with their time).

Good luck

Paul Janulis


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## monkey (Jun 11, 2006)

I have to say Im in good company of those who were autistic yet reverd as hihgly skilled.Amadaus-Einstien-to name a couple .Some did see Motzart as mad-yet others a genesis.Mozart was able to write conchartos at 6yrs of age.I my self was able to absorb the martial arts & welding & musical skills.My son is great at the age 7 he did programs for computor.Hes now 15 & all A's with the special aid the state is required by law to provide.He has computor classes-writes music programs & lots of storys.Mostly about pirates but long detailed storys.


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## donna (Jun 12, 2006)

As has been already stated every child is different according to where they are on the autistic spectrum. A good idea would be to discuss with his parents the unique needs of this particular child. They would be in the position to tell you what techniques would work and what would not. Try discussing a few of your ideas with them and they might even have a few sugesstions themselves as to what has worked in the past.


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## shesulsa (Jun 12, 2006)

Terry, Matt's guide is spot on and I'd follow that advice.  Keep communication open with the parents/guardians.

Keep an open mind and prepare to dish out a LOT of patience.

You will likely need some ideas on  handling other parents and other kids.  Unfortunatley there are people who think their children shouldn't have to be "exposed" to special needs kids.  You'll do well without those people if you can't open their eyes.  

There's more I'd like to say on this but I'm just in too much back pain.  I'll post later.


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## Eternal Beginner (Jun 12, 2006)

> The best advice I can offer is: Do the same thing that would work with any kid.
> 1.) Be honest. Never tell them to do something (or not do something) that you can't or won't follow through on.
> 2.) establish whether you really have their attention before giving an instruction.
> 3.) Reinforce them when they do good things. That may mean praise, it may be attention, but it may be something completely different. Make it your priority to find out what it is.
> ...



This is great advice!  We are also working with a little boy with autism in our BJJ school.  The above advice is exactly what we needed.  I have worked with children with Asperger's before but have found it a little more difficult with this child as his language is not as well developed.

My nephew is autistic as well and I really appreciate hearing how others work with autistic kids as it is something we are relatively new to.


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## Kacey (Jun 12, 2006)

I can't really add anything to Matt's advice, although from my experience, I would definitely emphasize routine, but I do have some other good reference sources for you:

http://www.aspennj.org/
http://www.itc-autism.com/
http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer


Eternal Beginner - for the student you mention, I would suggest picture cues if his language is weak... if it's his receptive (incoming) language that's weak, pictures the instructor(s) can show him; if it's his expressive (outgoing) language that's weak, pictures he can show you.  Also, you might find out if he knows any sign language (for some kids with autism it's been very successful).  This could help him to express himself more clearly and understand what others want more easily, and cut down on the frustration quotient.


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## Cruentus (Jun 12, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> You will likely need some ideas on handling other parents and other kids. Unfortunatley there are people who think their children shouldn't have to be "exposed" to special needs kids. You'll do well without those people if you can't open their eyes.


 
Just to add 2 more cents to complement shesulsa's points...

Just wanted to point out that in the public schools, from my limited experience, there was great success and value in having the special needs kids integrated in with the general students for most of the day. The Spec. Needs kids learned valuable things about functioning with the general populus, and the regular students learned valuable skills and compassion when it came to working with these kids. With a para-educator there to mediate (which prevented bullying, verbal or other, from the select few that would) it was a great learning model for everyone.

Paul


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## Eternal Beginner (Jun 13, 2006)

Kacey said:
			
		

> Eternal Beginner - for the student you mention, I would suggest picture cues if his language is weak... if it's his receptive (incoming) language that's weak, pictures the instructor(s) can show him; if it's his expressive (outgoing) language that's weak, pictures he can show you. Also, you might find out if he knows any sign language (for some kids with autism it's been very successful). This could help him to express himself more clearly and understand what others want more easily, and cut down on the frustration quotient.



Thank you!  These are things I will look into.  I appreciate your help.


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## shesulsa (Jun 14, 2006)

EB, you can use what we call a Picture Schedule with him.  I'll dig through some old autism links and see what I can find ... will post here.

OR - you could ask the parents if they use picture schedules with him - if they're trying to do away with pic schedules to encourage his language, there are options.

I'll type more on this tonight.


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## shesulsa (Jun 14, 2006)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Just wanted to point out that in the public schools, from my limited experience, there was great success and value in having the special needs kids integrated in with the general students for most of the day. The Spec. Needs kids learned valuable things about functioning with the general populus, and the regular students learned valuable skills and compassion when it came to working with these kids. With a para-educator there to mediate (which prevented bullying, verbal or other, from the select few that would) it was a great learning model for everyone.



I could not agree more.  Steve Scott ('hardheadjarhead' on this board) uses a model called 'developmental martial arts' and has a volunteer one-on-one with each student.  But if you can find a paraprofessional to come in who also happens to have an interest in your particular style (in Eternal Beginner's case, BJJ), that could work quite nicely too.

EB, here is a link to a site with excellent picture examples of PECS and more info on them.

I HIGHLY recommend that someone open up conversation with the parents to make sure the approach to speech and language development is a blanketed one - one that mirrors what is being done at home and school.

BJJ will be very good for that student.  It brings about a proprioceptive awareness and can address sensory dysfunction as well.  I'm very interested as how this student will progress and I do hope you will keep us posted.


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## Eternal Beginner (Jun 14, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I HIGHLY recommend that someone open up conversation with the parents to make sure the approach to speech and language development is a blanketed one - one that mirrors what is being done at home and school.
> 
> BJJ will be very good for that student. It brings about a proprioceptive awareness and can address sensory dysfunction as well. I'm very interested as how this student will progress and I do hope you will keep us posted.



Thank you for your help Shesulsa.   The child is an ABA program (sorry if I don't have the lingo down yet, just learning all about this) and we have been given tips on how we (I only help out once in a while but the two main instructors have more info) should relate to him.

I may have been off on his language abilities as it turns out he can speak very well, if he wants to.  I was new to him when I taught his class and therefore he used far more physical gestures or didn't talk at all, so please forgive me.

I'm going to have to look up what "proprioceptive awareness" is...but so far he seems to have taken to the class VERY well.  By the time I taught him a second time he had remembered the sweep I taught him first class and insisted on showing it to me on his little brother.


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## shesulsa (Jun 14, 2006)

Eternal Beginner said:
			
		

> Thank you for your help Shesulsa.   The child is an ABA program (sorry if I don't have the lingo down yet, just learning all about this) and we have been given tips on how we (I only help out once in a while but the two main instructors have more info) should relate to him.
> 
> I may have been off on his language abilities as it turns out he can speak very well, if he wants to.  I was new to him when I taught his class and therefore he used far more physical gestures or didn't talk at all, so please forgive me.
> 
> I'm going to have to look up what "proprioceptive awareness" is...but so far he seems to have taken to the class VERY well.  By the time I taught him a second time he had remembered the sweep I taught him first class and insisted on showing it to me on his little brother.



Give me a couple days to round up my old autism links.  For now, see if you can find a copy of the following books from the library - or better yet, if you can, buy a copy or two and circulate them around the family:

_Thinking in Pictures_ by Temple Grandin - anything by Dr. Grandin is good, but this is an excellent first-hand account on the difference in processing the world.  This book and _Emergence - Labeled Autistic.  _This is her autobiographical account of growing up with autism.

For a more severe example, try anything by Donna Williams such as _Nobody Nowhere_, _Somebody Somewhere_ and her more recent books.  The First is her autobiographical account of growing up with autism and some psychosis.

For a reality check that this is not just an "autistic kid" but a person with a heart and soul, read _SonRise; The Miracle Continues_ by Barry Neil Kauffman.   

I'll see what else I can dig up - especially the stuff on sensory and proprioception.


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## Eternal Beginner (Jun 15, 2006)

Thanks again Shesulsa...it is very much appreciated.


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## Last Fearner (Jul 15, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> OK I have a 8 year old that is a blue belt and he has autism, we handle it pretty well for the most part but what do you guys and girls do to help keep there attention?
> Terry
> Nu the way he is a student of mne.


 
Master Stoker, and others,

I am sure this thread will be very helpful to those who need to be introduced to this topic, or who wish to seek a better understanding of Autism. I wish to provide some of my own insights from the perspective of a parent, and Taekwondo Instructor.

I have three sons. My two oldest boys are twins, and will be 8 years old this Sunday (July 16). The oldest, Jared, has shown signs of mild autism for many years. Some of the early signs were a lack of verbal skills, parrot like repeating of words, phrases, or songs, lack of eye contact, spinning toys, and flapping hands. As a parent, and Martial Art Instructor, I chose to home-school my boys to give them the attention they needed, from someone who I knew cared about their feelings, education, and personal safety.

I began my twin boys in Taekwondo class when they were 4, and they have been studying more steadily in the past year. Jared had trouble standing still in line, following any drills on the floor, or focusing long enough to last an entire class. Depending on his mood, or emotional frustration, he does better on some days than others. However, the amount of progress he has made in the past year has been overwhelmingly impressive to me, and my Grandmaster.

In some classes, I will allow Jared to wander to a neutral area, or sit in a safe place for parts of the class, and only require him to join if he is willing, and doing well with the exercise. Other times, I will "push" him to stay active during an entire class. One of the main benefits he gets from Taekwondo is interaction with other children (especially since he is home schooled), and Taekwondo is both creative, and structured training in one class. This is highly important for autistic children since they have difficulty communicating between the different areas of the brain. I have found this to be an important factor for all students I teach (children and adults).

To keep my son's attention in class, I have to either work one-on-one with him, and repeat the same move several times, or I let him go with the group, and change his activity often, keeping it fun and moving fast. I demonstrate, and he will follow as best that his mind will focus at that time. Keep in mind, when he is standing around, or sitting on the side of the floor, he is absorbing everything that is going on.  There are other little "tricks" that I use, which we can discuss later, that make him laugh, and keep him "looking" for the next surprise.  He loves rewards (behavior reinforcment) such as praise, high-fives, and hugs (usually).

Many times, autistic children will learn the answers, or skills, the first time they are shown, but might have difficulty sending the message from the brain to their body to respond, or act at the moment expected. Jared can name all nine planets, seven continents, recite the pledge of allegiance, and many other such skills, but answering a simple question, or performing a required task might prove difficult. What appears to be stubbornness in not performing a task he has done before, or giving an answer he knows, is actually an issue of timing. If the answer is there, but not getting directed to the right muscles at the right time, it just won't happen, as much as he might be trying inside to please me.

There are many good resources of information that I believe every instructor should seek out, and some are being provided in this thread by others. One recent article I found to be very informative on this subject was in the May 15, 2006 issue of TIME magazine. The article by Claudia Wallis was titled "Inside the Autistic Mind." The following are some quotes of interest from this article:

(speaking about an autistic girl named Hannah)
"Like many people with autism, Hannah is so acutely sensitive to sound that she'll catch every word of a conversation occurring elsewhere in the house... She is also hypersensitive to visual input. Gazing directly at things is difficult, so she often relies on her almost preternatural peripheral vision."

"More than 60 years after autism was first described by American psychiatrist Leo Kanner, there are still more questions than answers about this complex disorder."

"It's well known that there's a wide range in the severity of symptoms - from profound disability to milder forms like Asperger syndrome." "Indeed, doctors now prefer the term Autistic Spectrum Disorders (ASD).

"Once thought to be mainly a disease of the cerebellum - a region in the back of the brain that integrates sensory and motor activity, autism is increasingly seen as a pervasive problem with the way the brain is wired. The distribution of white matter, the nerve fibers that link diverse parts of the brain, is abnormal ..."

"Many classic symptoms of autism - spinning, head banging, endless repeating phrases - appear to be coping mechanisms rather than hard-wired behaviors. Other classic symptoms - a lack of emotion, an inability to love - can now be largely dismissed as artifacts of impaired communication."

"The world of autism therapy continues to be bombarded by cure-of-the-day fads. But therapists are beginning to sort out the best ways to intervene. And while autism is generally a lifelong struggle, there are some reported cases in which kids who were identified as autistic and treated at an early age no longer exhibit symptoms."

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 166 American children born today will fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum."

"Autistic kids often look at the mouth rather than the eyes of someone speaking."

"By and large, people with ASD have difficulty bringing different cognitive functions together in an integrated way, There is a tendency to hyperfocus on detail and miss the big picture."

"Chandima Rajapatirana, an autistic writer from Potomac, MD., offers this account:" *"Helplessly I sit while Mom calls me to come. I know what I must do, but often I can't get up until she says, 'stand up,'" "[The] knack of knowing where my body is does not come easy for me. Interestingly I do not know if I am sitting or standing. I am not aware of my body unless it is touching something ... Your hand on mine lets me know where my hand is. Jarring my legs by walking tells me I am alive."*

"Such descriptions shed light on seemingly self-destructive behavior like biting, scratching, spinning and head banging. For people like Rajapatirana, banging against a wall can be a useful way to tell, quite literally, where their head is at." "Before we extinguish [such behaviors], we need to understand what they are telling us."

Master Stoker, I have found the insights in the above excerpts to be helpful. There is much more in the entire article of the TIME magazine issue. Here is what the cover looks like:
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20060515,00.html

I would suggest reading it, and the other sources suggested here. If you would like further dialogue with me on this topic, please let me know.

CM D. J. Eisenhart


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## shesulsa (Oct 13, 2006)

Eternal Beginner said:


> Thanks again Shesulsa...it is very much appreciated.


Better late than never, eh?

All my old links are on my old, crashed, computer and I truthfully forgot about this after a few days and with life's foibles.

But in light of some recent conversation I remembered your questions about proprioception and sensory issues.  Another member here sent me this link.

Jean Ayers is the foremost authority on Sensory Integration which involves proprioception and all kinds of other fanciful words I can't remember right now.

Anyway, here are some other good links on the work of Jean Ayers and others:

http://www.esd189.org/autism/links2.html

http://mislabeledchild.com/TheMislabeledChild/Sensory_Processing_files/dsi.pdf

http://neurolearning.com/sensorylearn.htm

http://www.understandingautism.org/uaorg_5RESOURCES/UAORG_1treatment.html

I don't know how it works in Manitoba, but in the states, we have the Department of Developmental Disabilities where minors can be registered by their parents and receive some kind of services.  I guess it takes a lot of tries to get in, because I'm on my fifth try, newly starting again after over six years.

If I may be so bold as to say, I'd like to give you some advice in being the aunt of an autistic child.  Please know this advice comes from someone who has been hauling this load, for the most part, stark alone:  If you want your nephew to succeed to the best of his abilities, then be there for his parents.  Be as active as you can in supporting them, learning how they are caring for him, about his treatments, his strengths, his weaknesses, their strengths and weaknesses.  Try to be somewhat involved in his "program."  The more exposure he has to more people, the better chance he has at recovering to whatever degree he is able.  Make yourself available to watch him while they go to dinner or the movies.  Use this opporunity to teach your own children tolerance, love and the importance and power of family unity.

And if anyone in your family is having difficulty in resolving this "tragedy" in their lives, remind them that everything in life has meaning and when we start to despair and ask ourselves or God why something happens, we must remind ourselves that the simple answer is, "because."  We must find, discern or assign a meaning in these challenges, else the purpose behind them is lost.

I've written a piece in General Self Defense on tracking devices and my experience with them, if your nephew is an elopement risk.

All my best to your family in this endeavor.


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## Eternal Beginner (Oct 15, 2006)

shesulsa said:


> Better late than never, eh?
> 
> All my old links are on my old, crashed, computer and I truthfully forgot about this after a few days and with life's foibles.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate your advice.  Fortunately, in Manitoba my nephew has had fast and aggressive help set up by the government.  It was a matter of three months from diagnosis to a program being set up in his own home to help him.

Your advice on being the "aunt of an autistic child" is welcome.  I have discovered in the last few months just how much support my brother and sister-in-law need.  From babysitting both my nephew when they need some time and watching their other child when all of the appointments with specialists were taking up a lot of their time.  I am fortunate that my husband's family is a stong, cohesive unit with very strong faith that come together now and instead of mourning "what might have been" they are concentrating on "what can be".  All of us that live close to them have attended seminars and have been "coached" by his teachers on how best we can help him.

We are very impressed with the program that my nephew is in.  In fact, a little guy I help teach BJJ to won his division in the tournament we held today.  From a boy who could hardly be touched last fall he went out and won his division!!!  It really gave me a lot of hope.  Seeing his face when he received his medal was priceless.

Again, thanks for your advice...it is VERY much appreciated.


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