# Breakfalls of Judo/Jujutsu



## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 20, 2018)

If this has been done before apologies.


Do the break falls in Judo work in the real world?  By that i mean concrete, tiles, earth etc.    Anyone have any experience of them being used/working outside of controlled conditions?


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## Headhunter (Jul 20, 2018)

Better than getting your head smashed into the concrete


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 20, 2018)

The following approach may be different from the Judo approach.

When your body is in the air, sometime you don't know which part of your body will land first. When you fall, you will need to protect your head from hitting the ground. To prevent the back of your head from hitting the hard ground is much more important than anything else.






Protect your head, protect your head, and still protect your head. Use your leg/legs to slap on the ground if you can.


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## JR 137 (Jul 20, 2018)

A college I worked at had a Judo club.  The sensei would take the group out to the parking lot every semester have have them roll and breakfall.  The first time I saw them doing it, I had no idea who he was nor what they were doing. So I asked.  The sensei said “what are the chances they’ll get attacked in a matted dojo?  If they can’t fall and roll outside in the real world, there’s not much point in doing it.”

So yes, it works on concrete.  They’d get a bit of road rash and a few bumps and bruises, but nothing major.


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## Danny T (Jul 20, 2018)

Learning to fall is a great exercise for a couple of reasons.
1. it helps temper your body
2. helps you to learn to control your movement if being thrown or tripped
3. it allows you to be a good training partner by being one who can be thrown so your partner can practice throws
4. your confidence in being able to take a throw goes up

Do they work: yes the do.
Trips, slips, sweeps, takedowns, and throws happen.


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## jks9199 (Jul 20, 2018)

Rat said:


> If this has been done before apologies.
> 
> 
> Do the break falls in Judo work in the real world?  By that i mean concrete, tiles, earth etc.    Anyone have any experience of them being used/working outside of controlled conditions?


Yes, they do.

I've used breakfalls, rolls, and other ways of safely hitting the ground in a number of situations -- some sort of planned, many unplanned.  Proper falling will protect you from major injury.


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## jks9199 (Jul 20, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> A college I worked at had a Judo club.  The sensei would take the group out to the parking lot every semester have have them roll and breakfall.  The first time I saw them doing it, I had no idea who he was nor what they were doing. So I asked.  The sensei said “what are the chances they’ll get attacked in a matted dojo?  If they can’t fall and roll outside in the real world, there’s not much point in doing it.”
> 
> So yes, it works on concrete.  They’d get a bit of road rash and a few bumps and bruises, but nothing major.



I agree with him.  I frequently point out to students that the skill they're most likely to use to protect themselves isn't a punch, kick, throw -- or even shooting.  It's falling without getting hurt...


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 20, 2018)

Rat said:


> If this has been done before apologies.
> 
> 
> Do the break falls in Judo work in the real world?  By that i mean concrete, tiles, earth etc.    Anyone have any experience of them being used/working outside of controlled conditions?


The big slap I was taught in Judo (same as is used in most of NGA) for a side fall is hell on a hard surface - it actually stuns the hand pretty well, and can leave a bruise that's damned tender for a day or two. On anything but good mats, I change the fall. Where I can, I round out of it, turning it into a partial roll. Where I can't do that, I try to lead with the hand, rather than slapping with it. The front fall I was taught doesn't have any major issues on hard surfaces, though I'd rather do a feather fall if I can manage it. The back fall I learned in Judo, if it is done really well, is similar to one I've seen dancers use for high falls on stage and pavement, and it seems to work well for them. I've never used it enough to develop that kind of skill (the NGA back fall has a different focus, and is fine on pavement).


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 20, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> NGA



Can you fill me in as to what that is?


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## now disabled (Jul 21, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> The big slap I was taught in Judo (same as is used in most of NGA) for a side fall is hell on a hard surface - it actually stuns the hand pretty well, and can leave a bruise that's damned tender for a day or two. On anything but good mats, I change the fall. Where I can, I round out of it, turning it into a partial roll. Where I can't do that, I try to lead with the hand, rather than slapping with it. The front fall I was taught doesn't have any major issues on hard surfaces, though I'd rather do a feather fall if I can manage it. The back fall I learned in Judo, if it is done really well, is similar to one I've seen dancers use for high falls on stage and pavement, and it seems to work well for them. I've never used it enough to develop that kind of skill (the NGA back fall has a different focus, and is fine on pavement).




You learned that the big slap on a real hard surface is kinda counter productive lol. 

Good point though in looking for a different approach. The point imo is you learned the fall then realised that it had to be modified. 

Rat break falling is important as already said it will save your body from serious injury however I would suggest that you learn from a person that actually knows how to rather than try it out as you might hurt yourself and be careful of doing the feather fall as if you get it wrong it will hurt.

I know from your other threads that you are very enthusiastic just be careful the guys on here can and will tell you how to do the falls (and they can do them as they were trained to do them as part of their arts and styles) please if you want to learn the break falls go to and study at a dojo that can teach them. Yes there are videos on how to but do bear in mind that most of them are done by yudansha (at least the ones I have seen anyway) and they should know how to do them lol. 

Don't get to ambitious lol doing and taking breakfalls. They can take a good while to perfect (and don't confuse breakfall with ukemi as technically that is different it may result in a breakfall but not necessarily) and again as has been said to you before don't get all frustrated if you go to a dojo that involves that and you don't get to do the big fancy looking falls as some are really (yes I will admit and I was an Aikidoka lol) for show and really depend on the Uke and nage as to if they can do them, a really good example was one of my favourite techniques Kotegaeshi lol yes it can be done big big circle and look very impressive (if both can perform and do the breakfall) and it can and does at times wow newbies and onlookers lol but in reality you do it much much shorter (small circle) and the breakfall is faster and has to be taken properly (yes more ukemi there) less injury ensues. 

I am not having a go just before you get into all the nitty gritty again go learn from a dojo that teaches please as watching vids and asking questions is good but it could get you hurt and umm as a beginner you won't know if your doing them right lol as a vid or a worded answer cannot do that


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 21, 2018)

Rat said:


> Can you fill me in as to what that is?


Nihon Goshin Aikido (it's in my signature, but I don't think that shows if you're reading on your phone). It's a cousin art to Ueshiba's Aikido, also primarily derived from Daito-ryu, but with influence from Judo, Shotokan Karatedo, and some other bits.


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## jks9199 (Jul 21, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> The big slap I was taught in Judo (same as is used in most of NGA) for a side fall is hell on a hard surface - it actually stuns the hand pretty well, and can leave a bruise that's damned tender for a day or two.



It stings, sure... but I'd rather have a bruised or sore arm, than injuries.  And, in my experience, falls more or less directly to the side aren't common unless they've been "aided."  Most are really somewhere between back and side (slip on ice, slide on a loose carpet), or forward (trip).  Like I said -- they work.  Even learning to simply relax and not reach as you fall saves a lot of broken wrists... just like learning to tuck your chin protects the head.


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## now disabled (Jul 21, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> Even learning to simply relax



That is key ... being all tense and tight your more likely to get hurt 

That takes time and effort to achieve and patience not watch you tube and ask questions and go for it lol


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## now disabled (Jul 21, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Nihon Goshin Aikido (it's in my signature, but I don't think that shows if you're reading on your phone). It's a cousin art to Ueshiba's Aikido, also primarily derived from Daito-ryu, but with influence from Judo, Shotokan Karatedo, and some other bits.




It got the bits that most Aikido has kinda left out or as I said in another thread at its creation/inception call it as you will it was assumed that the students (and at that time they all did lol) already knew 

Rat please don't get into the whys and the rest of why it was left out or is not taught everywhere as you kinda don't need to know as it will turn into a history lesson and get way to complicated lol 

Just take it as @gpseymour knows where to strike and I do to as we were both taught how to ... you wanna learn go to a dojo and learn lol then ask questions lol


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 21, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Rat please don't get into the whys and the rest of why it was left out or is not taught everywhere as you kinda don't need to know as it will turn into a history lesson and get way to complicated



Nah, just asking because Judos going to probably be where i learn breakfalls from or something influenced by it.    Just wanted to feel out the waters if i needed to try and make a conscious decision to go somewhere to learn break falls or not.

Edit:   I have to ask, does BJJ do break falls?   I know most of you might not know anything about them.    The thought just crossed my mind.


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## now disabled (Jul 21, 2018)

Rat said:


> Nah, just asking because Judos going to probably be where i learn breakfalls from or something influenced by it.    Just wanted to feel out the waters if i needed to try and make a conscious decision to go somewhere to learn break falls or not.
> 
> Edit:   I have to ask, does BJJ do break falls?   I know most of you might not know anything about them.    The thought just crossed my mind.





you will get a kick on the butt saying we don't know about break falls lol ...ummm we kinda do lol hence the info you been given 

Your gonna be a busy boy at last count your up to at least 6 arts your gonna learn lol


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 21, 2018)

Rat said:


> I have to ask, does BJJ do break falls? I know most of you might not know anything about them. The thought just crossed my mind.


Yep, we do cover breakfalls in BJJ, but they usually don't get as much practice time as they do in a Judo school.



now disabled said:


> you will get a kick on the butt saying we don't know about break falls lol ...ummm we kinda do lol hence the info you been given



I think he was saying you might not know anything about BJJ, not about breakfalls.


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## now disabled (Jul 21, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yep, we do cover breakfalls in BJJ, but they usually don't get as much practice time as they do in a Judo school.
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was saying you might not know anything about BJJ, not about breakfalls.




ok my appologies


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 21, 2018)

Getting back to the original question, proper breakfalling technique is totally applicable to hard surfaces outside the dojo.

I don't care for the hard slap. I think it's unnecessary and even counterproductive on a hard surface. The most important elements are to relax, exhale, avoid impact on bony surfaces (especially the head), and absorb the impact over as broad a surface area as possible. Rolling is good when the situation allows it, but frequently it does not.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 21, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> It stings, sure... but I'd rather have a bruised or sore arm, than injuries.  And, in my experience, falls more or less directly to the side aren't common unless they've been "aided."  Most are really somewhere between back and side (slip on ice, slide on a loose carpet), or forward (trip).  Like I said -- they work.  Even learning to simply relax and not reach as you fall saves a lot of broken wrists... just like learning to tuck your chin protects the head.


They do work - I've just found that it's possible to use them without the slap when you have some control. If there's no control, a bruised hand is better than a concussion or broken hip.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 21, 2018)

Rat said:


> Nah, just asking because Judos going to probably be where i learn breakfalls from or something influenced by it.    Just wanted to feel out the waters if i needed to try and make a conscious decision to go somewhere to learn break falls or not.
> 
> Edit:   I have to ask, does BJJ do break falls?   I know most of you might not know anything about them.    The thought just crossed my mind.


The BJJ I've been exposed to (slim exposure) didn't have much by the way of breakfalls. Others here who have a lot more BJJ experience might have a different answer.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 21, 2018)

now disabled said:


> you will get a kick on the butt saying we don't know about break falls lol ...ummm we kinda do lol hence the info you been given
> 
> Your gonna be a busy boy at last count your up to at least 6 arts your gonna learn lol


He wasn't saying we don't know breakfalls - but that we might not know BJJ's.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 21, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Getting back to the original question, proper breakfalling technique is totally applicable to hard surfaces outside the dojo.
> 
> I don't care for the hard slap. I think it's unnecessary and even counterproductive on a hard surface. The most important elements are to relax, exhale, avoid impact on bony surfaces (especially the head), and absorb the impact over as broad a surface area as possible. Rolling is good when the situation allows it, but frequently it does not.


That's my take, in a nutshell, Tony.


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## dunc (Jul 21, 2018)

It’s perfectly possible to break fall and roll on concrete
You do need to make a few adjustments from the standard judo approach and of course it takes practice


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## frank raud (Jul 23, 2018)

Rat said:


> If this has been done before apologies.
> 
> 
> Do the break falls in Judo work in the real world?  By that i mean concrete, tiles, earth etc.    Anyone have any experience of them being used/working outside of controlled conditions?


I live in Canada, icy, slippery conditions for months at a time. I have slipped on ice multiple times, done breakfalls without thinking and gotten up with either no damage or just some bruising. I was cleaning eavestroughs and fell of a 6 ft ladder, fell on my back, got up, repositioned the ladder and went back to cleaning the gutters. I have barely been in a physical altercation since I started martial arts 35 plus years ago, but the breakfalls that I have learned have been the most important physical skill for daily life that I have learned.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 27, 2018)

Thanks for the replies.   I now have little worry if any of them don't work from a official judo organization, makes me appreciate it a little more now, you always get the statement about them doing it on mats after all.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 27, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yep, we do cover breakfalls in BJJ, but they usually don't get as much practice time as they do in a Judo school..


In Chinese wrestling, we don't spend time to train break fall. The partner training already train the break fall at the same time.


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## JR 137 (Jul 27, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In Chinese wrestling, we don't spend time to train break fall. The partner training already train the break fall at the same time.


Same in folk style wrestling.  Unless you count doing rolls in practically every direction during warmups as actual training.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In Chinese wrestling, we don't spend time to train break fall. The partner training already train the break fall at the same time.


One of my instructors told me years ago, “You don’t have to teach falls and rolls. They will figure them out. Or they will quit because they didn’t. If you teach them, fewer will quit.”


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 27, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> One of my instructors told me years ago, “You don’t have to teach falls and rolls. They will figure them out. Or they will quit because they didn’t. If you teach them, fewer will quit.”


My teacher told me, "If you can't treat your body as a bouncing ball, the wrestling art is not for you."


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> My teacher told me, "If you can't treat your body as a bouncing ball, the wrestling art is not for you."


Different approach.


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## now disabled (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> One of my instructors told me years ago, “You don’t have to teach falls and rolls. They will figure them out. Or they will quit because they didn’t. If you teach them, fewer will quit.”



To me anyway it a necessity to teach breakfalls so they do come back, This is prob more Aikido specific but also teaching how to take ukemi is important to but that just me


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 29, 2018)

now disabled said:


> To me anyway it a necessity to teach breakfalls so they do come back, This is prob more Aikido specific but also teaching how to take ukemi is important to but that just me


When my English teacher asked me to write "This is a book." 100 times, he no longer asked me to write "t" 100 times, "h" 100 times, and ...


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When my English teacher asked me to write "This is a book." 100 times, he no longer asked me to write "t" 100 times, "h" 100 times, and ...


That only works if you know how to write a "T" first.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> That only works if you know how to write a "T" first.


If you learned how to write a "T" when you are 5 years old, do you still need to practice how to writs a "T" when you are 80 years old?

Going through the elementary school 5 times won't get you a PhD degree.


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## dunc (Jul 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> My teacher told me, "If you can't treat your body as a bouncing ball, the wrestling art is not for you."



Yeah this kind of breakfall doesn’t work on hard floors


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## JR 137 (Jul 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you learned how to write a "T" when you are 5 years old, do you still need to practice how to writs a "T" when you are 80 years old?


I’d imagine it would help with Alzheimer’s, dementia, etc.  I see and hear about this brain boosting stuff for the elderly like crossword puzzles, word search, sudoku, etc.  I guess practicing writing would have some effect.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 29, 2018)

dunc said:


> Yeah this kind of breakfall doesn’t work on hard floors


What can be the option?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you learned how to write a "T" when you are 5 years old, do you still need to practice how to writs a "T" when you are 80 years old?
> 
> Going through the elementary school 5 times won't get you a PhD degree.


None of that is relevant to my comment, John.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> None of that is relevant to my comment, John.


I'm not saying that I disagree with you. Of course you have to learn how to write a "T" first. But After that, you will have much more mission to complete.


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## now disabled (Jul 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I'm not saying that I disagree with you. Of course you have to learn how to write a "T" first. But After that, you will have much more mission to complete.



Ok you have learned to write T as you have learned to breakfall ... but surely like with all else in life to try and achieve the best you have to keep doing it and there may be more than one way of doing it ...just a thought


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## dunc (Jul 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What can be the option?



In order to break fall against these kind of throws on hard floors you have to learn to get your heels on the floor first, followed by your flat back or buttocks

It's fine to land sideways like the clip showed on mats, but this is really, really bad on concrete
There are methods of break falling sideways - again it's key to get one of your feet onto the floor first and use one arm to absorb the force

There are front break falls also - quite similar to the judo version, but with less slapping and more absorbing

It's simple to develop this skill, you just need to work up to it carefully on hard floor

I'm not sure about the idea of bouncing back up TBH - looks dangerous to me from the clip that you posted. In my styles we take the approach to either release the grips and roll away or continue the fight from the floor in some way


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## pdg (Jul 30, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Ok you have learned to write T as you have learned to breakfall ... but surely like with all else in life to try and achieve the best you have to keep doing it and there may be more than one way of doing it ...just a thought



Sort of what I was thinking.

So you can write "T".

But how you write it differs in context.

How you use it differs in context.

How you say it changes in context.

Sometimes it's good to go back to just "T"...


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## wab25 (Jul 30, 2018)

I find it interesting that when talking about taking falls on hard surfaces, we always talk about the "big slap" in a binary fashion. I am either going to slap the ground, very hard and bruise my arm and or hand... or I am not going to slap at all. I am not convinced that it is a binary thing. When taking a fall on a hard surface, one of the things that you can adjust, is the power of the slap, and how much of you arm is used in the slap.

We all tend to agree that we want to maximize the surface area for the impact. Slapping with the arm, increases that surface area. The amount of power you put into the slap, can be variable.

When practicing falls on a mat, you need to learn more than just how to slap hard. One of the more important things to work on with the slap, is how to make contact with the softer bits, while protecting the harder parts of your arm, like the elbow. That way, when taking your fall on a hard surface, you can give the slap more or less power as the situation dictates, but you should be able to slap harder without issue, as you have learned to slap in a way that does not impact the harder points of the arm.

When I demo falls on hard surfaces, I choose how much of my arm impacts the ground, based on the fall I am taking. I have done no slapping, slapping with the whole arm, hand and fingers, and everything in between. (everything, but the fingers, everything but the hand, just the upper arm...) I find that by adjusting the power used and the amount of arm in the slap, I can take falls on hard surfaces quite easily with no bruising from most falls. I also have the ability to take some really hard falls and only really worry about the bruising in my fingers and occasionally elbow. 

Weirdly... in the times when I fell by surprise.... as in you are walking and realize that you have slipped and your feet are above your head and you are on the ground... those falls have been the softest falls I have ever taken, and I have no idea how much I slapped at all. 

Anyway, my point is that the slap is not either / or. You can vary the power used, and learn to use the proper surfaces. The more options the better.


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## dunc (Jul 30, 2018)

I think you make a fair point
In my style we don’t do any slapping so given we can breakfall easily on hard floors I’m not convinced that accelerating my arm into the floor is worth the risks involved


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 30, 2018)

wab25 said:


> I find it interesting that when talking about taking falls on hard surfaces, we always talk about the "big slap" in a binary fashion. I am either going to slap the ground, very hard and bruise my arm and or hand... or I am not going to slap at all. I am not convinced that it is a binary thing. When taking a fall on a hard surface, one of the things that you can adjust, is the power of the slap, and how much of you arm is used in the slap.
> 
> We all tend to agree that we want to maximize the surface area for the impact. Slapping with the arm, increases that surface area. The amount of power you put into the slap, can be variable.
> 
> ...


The slap as I learned it is entirely soft surfaces of the arm, but can shut your hand down because of the speed with which the tips of the fingers (for instance) reach the ground. It leaves a nasty pain I've always referred to as a "nerve bruise" (though I doubt that's the technical term) that is painful to the touch, but goes away usually in less than a day.

If I allow the upper arm - the triceps area - to make some contact with force (so, not really a slap anymore), I get most of the benefit, but nothing is  impacting at the speed the hand would. Alternatively, I can reach out with my hand - rather than slapping - and let it be the lead point to distribute the impact over time. You see this latter in the "feather falls" taught in many Aikido schools, though I've never learned it to that extent. Those feather falls, IMO, are the best option for hard surfaces, when they are suitable to the situation.

I guess I said all that to say I haven't found a speed of "slap" that works on hard surfaces without causing pain, numbness, and temporary malfunction in the hand.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 30, 2018)

dunc said:


> I think you make a fair point
> In my style we don’t do any slapping so given we can breakfall easily on hard floors I’m not convinced that accelerating my arm into the floor is worth the risks involved


Dunc, remind me what your primary style is, please.


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## dunc (Jul 30, 2018)

Bujinkan


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 30, 2018)

dunc said:


> Bujinkan


I'll have to go looking - I'm not familiar with the falls typically used in Bujinkan.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 30, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'll have to go looking - I'm not familiar with the falls typically used in Bujinkan.



I have never heard of it. 


another question out of the scope of this thread and maybe the knowledge of the participants, any of you know what breakfalls they do in systema?   i dont know if its from Judo or other.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 30, 2018)

Rat said:


> I have never heard of it.
> 
> 
> another question out of the scope of this thread and maybe the knowledge of the participants, any of you know what breakfalls they do in systema?   i dont know if its from Judo or other.


Bujinkan taijutsu (I think that’s the current full name) is the art Hatsumi teaches (and  founded). It used to be called ninjutsu, mostly a marketing move.


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## dunc (Jul 31, 2018)

Rat said:


> I have never heard of it.
> 
> another question out of the scope of this thread and maybe the knowledge of the participants, any of you know what breakfalls they do in systema?   i dont know if its from Judo or other.



The systema breakfalls are OK on hard floors actually - I only trained in it for a couple of years, but the breakfalling techniques are good


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## dunc (Jul 31, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Bujinkan taijutsu (I think that’s the current full name) is the art Hatsumi teaches (and founded). It used to be called ninjutsu, mostly a marketing move.



Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is often referred to as ninjutsu, but when I started it was referred to as traditional Japanese martial arts which in my view is a better description (probably not such a good brand name ‘though)



gpseymour said:


> I'll have to go looking - I'm not familiar with the falls typically used in Bujinkan.



Here are some clips taken from class - please note that I just bung a camera in the corner of the room (generally for my own benefit) so the production quality isn’t good

Basic methods here





This is the basic method of taking the force from a hip throw





You can see the idea of getting the feet down at work here also





Hope this helps

There are other videos on my feed and you can see the students working their breafalls on a hard(ish) floor

When I started training we used to practice full diving rolls, front break falls from standing on a table etc all on hard floors. I have toned this down in my own class because it’s a big class with mixed ability and I’m worried about H&S, but any black belt at my dojo needs to be able to cope with full on throws, takedowns etc on concrete


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2018)

dunc said:


> Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is often referred to as ninjutsu, but when I started it was referred to as traditional Japanese martial arts which in my view is a better description (probably not such a good brand name ‘though)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are pretty close to some of the adaptations I end up using on hard surfaces. The fall from the hip throw is pretty close to our back fall. I think these will give me some good material to work with. Thanks!


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## dunc (Jul 31, 2018)

The advice I give new students is to roll and break fall slowly from a low height on hard floors. If you catch a bone, then adjust your movement to make sure you're touching the floor with muscles rather than bone
Build up from there increasing height and speed and adding in more complexity such as difficult angles, being thrown awkwardly etc

Hope this is helpful - I genuinely believe that learning to break fall on hard floors is the most useful physical skill you'll learn in martial arts


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2018)

dunc said:


> The advice I give new students is to roll and break fall slowly from a low height on hard floors. If you catch a bone, then adjust your movement to make sure you're touching the floor with muscles rather than bone
> Build up from there increasing height and speed and adding in more complexity such as difficult angles, being thrown awkwardly etc
> 
> Hope this is helpful - I genuinely believe that learning to break fall on hard floors is the most useful physical skill you'll learn in martial arts


I used to practice all my falls and rolls in hotel rooms with that [saracasm] oh-so-fluffy carpeting [/sarcasm]. That did more for my ability to fall safely on mats than anything I ever did. Back in college, when I first started my NGA training (I'd already had some training in Judo, previously), I actually used my rolls on stage in a musical, when they wanted some tumbling.


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## now disabled (Jul 31, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I used to practice all my falls and rolls in hotel rooms with that [saracasm] oh-so-fluffy carpeting [/sarcasm]. That did more for my ability to fall safely on mats than anything I ever did. Back in college, when I first started my NGA training (I'd already had some training in Judo, previously), I actually used my rolls on stage in a musical, when they wanted some tumbling.




Ummm dare I ask what you were doing in hotel rooms that required break falls.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 31, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Ummm dare I ask what you were doing in hotel rooms that required break falls.


Really, you don't want to know.


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## now disabled (Aug 1, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Really, you don't want to know.



No I thought not lol


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## PiedmontChun (Aug 9, 2018)

Regarding the hand slap: I was coached to slap the mat, which is the norm in most Judo schools. It does seem to help take some pressure off the rest of your body, especially when you are hitting the mat over and over and over during a class. Would I slap the concrete if I fell on concrete? Probably not, but if I was falling on pavement in a real world situation (versus going out and intentionally training on concrete), I would argue that it is not going to be a textbook break fall anyway, but just enough of an instinctive breakfall to maybe save my butt.

Once in a Judo tournament, I was thrown by a 230 lb brown belt so fast and with such force, I was unable to slap the mat at all. But the fundamentals of a decent breakfall were still there - chin tucked to chest, exhale, relax, taking more of the fall with the shoulders then the lower back, heels to the ground like shock absorbers. I've also had a clumsy fall on stairs here and there in recent years and firmly believe my bit of judo helped fall without hurting myself.

One of the biggest things people do wrong when falling is not tuck their head in to protect it from, or trying to post an arm (sure fire way to break an arm). Training break falls, regardless of a hand slap or not,  will break those habits.


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