# What's the big deal about a broken finger in a street fight?



## kenpofighter (Jul 28, 2008)

Hey, I don't get why instructors make such a big deal about getting a broken or jammed finger during a street fight.  I understand that you would not want your fingers broken or jammed but at the same time to me it looks like it would be one of our least concerns. Everyone (MA) for the most part has had a broken or jammed finger or will. I am just trying not to get my head smashed in...ok, I am trying not to have to go to the doctor after the fight.  I see the importance of forming hand strikes correctly to make them work like they are sopose to, but can you really jam a finger bad when striking to the throat?


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## kaizasosei (Jul 28, 2008)

i my experience, i actually need to get each individual joint cracked a bit by some jerk or by my own foolishness or honest mistake,  before i understand the dangers fully and learn to react accordingly.  the less weaknesses you have the more efficient and powerful you can be.

wouldn't it suck if you kicked *** but busted your fingers...and even more if you could have so easily avoided the injury with a little extra caution


j


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## Empty Hands (Jul 28, 2008)

Well, first it's going to hurt really, really bad.  Not something you want to have happen when you are fighting for your life and a crucial second's distraction could lead to your demise.  Especially when weapons are involved and the odds are bad.

Second, it's going to remove one of your weapons from your arsenal.  Ever tried a hard punch to a solid surface with a broken finger?  Me neither, but it doesn't sound like a good idea.  Better to form your weapons properly and not leave your self open to the disadvantages that breaking or jamming your finger would cause.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 28, 2008)

The big deal is that it hurts like a *****.

The shock of that pain can take a lot of the fight out of you, and you might then get your head smashed in.

A bad punch to something hard like the head can break your finger or hand and leave bone sticking out of the skin, and have minimal effect on the bad guy.  It's a bad situation.


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## MJS (Jul 28, 2008)

Perhaps the OP is talking about the adrenal dump, its effect on the body, and the chance that due to that, you won't feel it until after the fact.  While that may be the case, I don't think its something I want to rely on all the time.  Take the UFC for instance.  I'd say those guys are pretty pumped up during the fight, yet how many times have we seen an accidental kick to the groin or poke to the eye and the fight comes to a halt?

I've jammed my fingers many times, and yes, it hurts like hell and it takes a little out of you.  Not to mention the fact that its now going to effect the use of your hand.

As for striking the throat as it was suggested...personally I'm not fond of the spear hand strikes.  Not saying they're not great tools, but keep in mind they're used for soft tissue strikes.  Would you really want to spear hand the ribs when a punch would do much better?   If I was going to target the throat/neck area, I'd much rather use a knife hand strike, hitting with the edge or blade of my hand rather than risk injury to the fingers.


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## jkembry (Jul 28, 2008)

I can't speak for anyone else but any sort of pain would seem to disrupt a lot of things....not to mention slowing one's self down to give the advantage to the opponent.  sometime it just doesn't take much to give them an advantage.


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## stickarts (Jul 28, 2008)

I think the point is to try and be able to cause damage without damaging yourself and to evade or parry properly to avoid being damaged as much as possible! Practicing correctly will also help to avoid injury during your normal classes. One of my students made the mistake of sticking fingers out trying to parry a kick and she got her finger broken! It hurt for a long time! She had been warned about trying to block that way but now she never sticks her fingers out anymore! 
Some of the ways we train and things we point out may seem like major concerns while others may seem minor, but why not practice as safely and perfectly as possible?
Our weapons we use to try and cause harm can also be harmed! Whether it be a finger or an arm.


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2008)

It's painful and distracting, and it weakens your punch and/or grip (depending on which finger(s) we're talking about). If you're trying to use a weapon it can be a real disadvantage.

Yet, people fight with busted hands all the time. It can be done...but it's easier if you're drunk and/or high.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 28, 2008)

As the others have said, it hurts and hurts A LOT. Go ahead break your own finger now and try a go at a bag or even spar someone. You get the idea. I've injured my thumb (probably a hairline fracture) during a sparring match and honestly I had to stop everything right there. The very thought of punching/blocking was out of the question, save except if I were fighting for my own life or that of a friend. 
It's a very big deal my friend. 

Yes, you can break yourself on someone else's body. Even an area as soft as the throat, you could hit the trachea or other hardened tissue wrong and the finger will bend not that way but this way and *snap*.
Ideally if the accuracy is right on you can puncture the soft tissue at the throat and cause damage but accuracy is the key with this area of the body.


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## KenpoTex (Jul 28, 2008)

Beyond the pain, there is the issue of reduced ability to use that hand which is a serious issue in some circumstances.

For .Mil, LE, private-sector security, or armed citizens, you may be in an empty-hand fight _right now_, but in a second or so, you may need to deploy a weapon.  It's not going to be easy to open a folder or manipulate a pistol when you've got a broken/jammed finger(s).


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 28, 2008)

Lets see I have broken 3 fingers. When I broke my fingers you get this nausea feeling well in my experience you get it when ever you break something. You are going to have a real hard time making a fist during and after the fight and it could cause damage later in life. If you have to trade your finger to save your life do it. If you can avoid it avoid it.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 28, 2008)

kenpofighter said:


> Hey, I don't get why instructors make such a big deal about getting a broken or jammed finger during a street fight. I understand that you would not want your fingers broken or jammed but at the same time to me it looks like it would be one of our least concerns. Everyone (MA) for the most part has had a broken or jammed finger or will. I am just trying not to get my head smashed in...ok, I am trying not to have to go to the doctor after the fight. I see the importance of forming hand strikes correctly to make them work like they are sopose to, but can you really jam a finger bad when striking to the throat?


First of all, you should have controll over your strikes. A regulation of force may help your fingers. Secondly, there may be more fighting to do after you injure yourself.
Sean


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## Deaf Smith (Jul 28, 2008)

kenpofighter,

Over the years I have had many a finger jammed in sparring. Sad thing was, it usually was Friday night sparring and the next day I had a IPSC match (that's pistol shooting, fast pistol shooting.) And those jammed fingers sure didn't help my scores.

Had my hand broke once to. Yep that smarted a bit.

Ken, it hurts an awfull lot to get a finger broke or jammed. ALOT. Notice in self defense practice grabbing a finger of someone holding you and breaking it works real well. That's a hint.

Sure you head is more important than your fingers, but your fingers are important to!

Deaf


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## Phadrus00 (Jul 28, 2008)

One of the things that I train with my students is targetting the thumb on the stick holding hand of my opponent.  By breaking the thumb you remove the opponents ability to hold the stick firmy thus reducing their capability to threaten you with the weapon.

As many have pointed out getting hit on the hand hurts..a lot!  Certainly some people can endure and work through that kind of pain (The Dog Brothers are famous for this) but many cannot especially if you manage to shatter one of the smaller bones.

From a punching perspective, breaking a finger during a punch can certainly reduce you ability to continue to defend yourself but it can also expose you to a potentially dangerous exchange of blood.  If you break your hand mid-punch and it ends up being a compound fracture and you cut your opponent you could expose yourself to a range of nasty blood bourne illnesses such as Hepatitus-C, AIDS, etc.

Breaking fingers is Bad Mmmm-Kay...  *grin*

Rob


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## kenpofighter (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks all of you that have posted so far. I had not thought about the  possibility of using weapons after the fact and trying to hold on to them. I too have had fingers jammed and broken before so I do know how it feels. And I could see how punching or punching hard anyway might just be a problem.


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## GBlues (Jul 29, 2008)

Never broken or jammed a finger in a fight, but I have jammed them doing other things. In the line of work I do, sometimes, it's a real challenge to not lose your fingers completely. I've had fingers smashed, jammed, everything but broken, and it makes it hard to work after words. Cause' for some reason that pain sticks for awhile. It's hard to hold a cup of coffe sometimes after a finger gets smashed real good. It just throbs..... imagine trying to fight like that?? Oh crap! And Broken....that is butthole puckering just to think about it. LOL


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## chinto (Jul 31, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> The big deal is that it hurts like a *****.
> 
> The shock of that pain can take a lot of the fight out of you, and you might then get your head smashed in.
> 
> A bad punch to something hard like the head can break your finger or hand and leave bone sticking out of the skin, and have minimal effect on the bad guy.  It's a bad situation.



yep absolutely.. besides that open fracture can lead to death from infection or pathogens getting into your system that lead to fatality some times even years latter. . so even if you manage to function with that brake... you open a wound  because you did it wrong and it can kill you several ways.


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## Brian King (Aug 1, 2008)

I try to train with the mindset that all conflicts are armed and multiple opponent so +1 on those that replied that broken/sprained fingers/thumb hinders weapons work should it be required during the current fight or in future fights (which is a strong hint to those that do weapons work to explore non-optimal grips and methods). For Military and action professionals this fight will not be their last and they may have many more that same day or have to be ready to fight tomorrow and the next day and the next. When tired, hungry, stressed any injury can pull at your spirit, they reduce your immune systems effectiveness and can reduce your chances of survival. 

Regards
Brian King


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## nitflegal (Aug 1, 2008)

Agreed with everyone else who has posted.  I've broken darned near every toe and four of my fingers sparring/tournaments/actual fights and it simply sucks.  Beyond the nausea there was the tenseness and partial contraction of muscles throughout my arm, a bit of dizzyness, and a definite concern for protecting the fingers by avoiding the use of the arm and hand, which takes away a fairly decent swath of my weapons.  It also seriously limits throws and such.  

It doesn't seem like much but it really throws you off your game.  
Matt


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 1, 2008)

kenpofighter said:


> Hey, I don't get why instructors make such a big deal about getting a broken or jammed finger during a street fight. I understand that you would not want your fingers broken or jammed but at the same time to me it looks like it would be one of our least concerns. Everyone (MA) for the most part has had a broken or jammed finger or will. I am just trying not to get my head smashed in...ok, I am trying not to have to go to the doctor after the fight. I see the importance of forming hand strikes correctly to make them work like they are sopose to, but can you really jam a finger bad when striking to the throat?


 A fellow officer got his middle finger bent at a 90 degree angle in a minor shoving match......it certainly reduced his ability to perform certain tasks at the time.


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 1, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> Beyond the pain, there is the issue of reduced ability to use that hand which is a serious issue in some circumstances.
> 
> For .Mil, LE, private-sector security, or armed citizens, you may be in an empty-hand fight _right now_, but in a second or so, you may need to deploy a weapon. It's not going to be easy to open a folder or manipulate a pistol when you've got a broken/jammed finger(s).


 Exactly the point I was about to make.....it's very hard to manipulate your firearm when your trigger finger is dislocated at the joint.


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## Langenschwert (Aug 5, 2008)

Yes, getting a broken finger really sucks, and can turn the tide in a real encounter, and broken thumbs even more so.  But we're talking about a street fight here, with potentially lethal consequences.  If that's the case, you've got to take risks if you're going to come out on top.  In all honesty, you're going to get hurt.  If you're defending against a knife, you're going to get cut, if you're not killed first.

You practice techniques to make them perfect in training so they end up being close to adequate under pressure.

If you're in a _life and death_ situation and you come away with only a broken finger, then you've done well.

Best regards,

-Mark


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