# Need help from fellow MA-ist, DR's worthless.



## d1jinx (Jul 8, 2010)

*Problem: *

Severe FOOT and Calf cramps....

*History:*

I have trained in TKD since I was 12. over 24 years training now.
Over the years I noticed if and when I took more than a week or 2 off, my legs would cramp randomly as I slept. (OK- answer-dont stop training)

But at around age 25, I noticed that When I did the Hurdler stretch with one leg back, that foot would cramp occasionaly. If it were cold in the dojang/dojo/training area... It would almost Definatley cramp. .

Over the years it has continued to worsen, cramping from once in a while to everytime its cold to every night now. I can no longer do the hurdler stretch because of this.

Anytime my foot relaxes like in bed, and point the Toes parallel to my leg, they cramp. It is always the same spot, the arch... the muscle from my heel to my big toe on the bottom and it pulls my toe inward and away from the other toes.

I now jump up every night whether from the couch watching a movie or bed asleep with a cramp. And they alternate between feet sometimes within seconds. Standing up and pushing my big toe towards the other toes makes it stop.

Now, within the last few months, calf cramps are also starting to be more frequent. sometimes at the same time as the feet. More frequent if cold, almost every night while I sleep, or sit on the coach relaxing.

*SIMILARITIES:*

Same muscles on each foot, same part of calf muscle on each leg. Becoming an everyday occurance, more aggresive when cold (but not only in the cold), guaranteed to cramp if point toes inline with leg. 

*MORE DISTURBING:*

I grew up swimming. Now everytime i enter the water, I get a cramp in my foot, calf or both. I cannot swim a fast pace, or exert myself swimming because they will imediately cramp sometimes ALL AT ONCE. Scuba diving or snorkling with flippers on also causes cramps in feet. Usually have to stop, because once they start, they will not go away. Continue to come back until I get out of the water. This past weekend, tried to race my wife across the pool, 35 ft pool, made it half way before BOTH FEET and CALVES cramped with severe charlie horse like cramps that when standing would not straighten out feet, and hurt for 2 days afterwards like I pulled a muscle.

*ATTEMPTED SOLUTIONS:*

Obvious ones, vitamins, water, gatoraide, bannanas, mustard, massage, stretching prior to exercise, heat, expensive insoles for shoes.

*HELP WANTED:*

Went to different doctors on numerous occasions. Always got a dehydrated, potasium, vitamin, stretch warm up answer. Basically "well so many things can cause cramps, its hard to narrow the cause down".

Anyone experience anything like this?
We as martial artists do things with our bodies that doctors and sports therapists do not understand and are not specialized in.
Can or does anyone have some REAL ideas???????

*Oh, one last thing*, 
unless I'm in the water, I never cramp while active, only while at rest. I can run, jump, kick etc without any cramping.

Only when on the coach or bed relaxing... or swimming in the water. 

And NEW or snug shoes will cause my feet to cramp when not doing anything, and just sitting. Like driving in the car.

...And I can almost cramp on command.


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## jks9199 (Jul 8, 2010)

Keep working with a doctor until they figure it out.  Armchair diagnosticians via the internet aren't much help...  though you might try searching on your symptoms.  Just don't let the docs get away with "I dunno..."  

One thought... could it be somehow circulatory?  Everything you describe seems to involve positions that might mess with your circulation...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 8, 2010)

My suggestion would be to seek out a quality chiropractor and/or TCM Dr. From what you said it could be nerve or circulatory related, and getting those opinions might help you figure it out.


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## Laus (Jul 9, 2010)

I occasionally get calf cramps when I'm asleep that will wake me up but they are rare, and nothing as unpleasant as what you describe. I've had bouts of plantar fasciitis - an inflammation of the feet, which can tighten the surrounding muscles in the arch and a little ways up the back of the leg. If you've had orthotics I'm guessing you've seen a podiatrist, who should have detected it if that was the problem. I've never heard of it causing such severe cramps though (maybe it does), my experience of it was more of a dull ache/throb at the source, with some tension in the surrounding muscle and a sharp pain when the inflammed tissue was massaged. Sort of a bruisy, strained muscle sort of feeling. Do your feet hurt in general or is it just cramping?

Well, on the relief level I would try the following:

1) Hot yoga. I've never managed to convince a male to actually do this, but I always recommend it anyway for anything muscular or joint related. The heat combined with the stretching delivers far better results than just stretching, and certain Yin styles get right down to the fascia. Bare minimum twice a week for results. It can be preventive as well as theraputic (and it does great things for kicks) so its good to do even when you have no complaints. I'm really not into the whole yoga scene (a little too scrappy for that I guess), but the benefits of the exercise are very worth it. Some places do private sessions if you aren't cool with the class environment, though it will cost you more.

2) Wear birkenstocks (or similar cork soled shoes) around the house instead of just socks or bare feet. The support of a springy sole perfectly molded to your foot is very soothing. I tried fancy orthotics the first time I had foot problems and found them useless, but the birks helped. 

3) Whenever possible, do any impact work (jumping jacks, etc) on mats, until symptoms subside. If you run, use a treadmill for a while instead of running outside, etc. Impact plays a large role in the pains we get in our legs, minimizing shock might help.

4) Accupuncture. If massage and heat aren't helping maybe this will.

5) Reflexology (rather than just a plain old foot massage) if you haven't tried that already.

6) A "re-alignment" massage. Essentially, your RMT separates the fascia (connective tissue) from the muscle and or bone (something like that, anatomy is not my thing). It hurts like hell, and doing the full body requires multiple sessions. It was a few years ago, but if I remember correctly my RMT explained that it allows everything (muscles, skeleton, etc) to sort of reset at neutral by removing all tension and 'stickiness'. I remember specifically noticing the difference in my ribs of all places. But again, this is extrememly painful.

If you want to try seeing more professionals (massage, physio, etc) find ones who train if you can. It's been my experience that those who don't really don't appreciate what we put ourselves through and lack some of the intuitive understanding of what we need. I'm sure that's not true for all of them, but all i can say is that I've had ones that do train and the difference is undeniable. Also, get referrals from people you train with, and ask your instructors if they know anyone in X profession who trains or who they can at least recommend.

As far as exploring the cause, I would definately check out the possibility that it's a circulatory thing as suggested above, rule out any other possible medical condition. If your doctor is stuck on "I dunno" do some net research to see what might cause cramping like that and go get a second opinion armed with some specific questions. 

Another possible avenue to explore is a naturopath. I'm still undecided about their efficacy but at the very least a consultion might offer some new insight. Or maybe a nutritionist. Since someone once suggested a potassium/vitamin problem to you, maybe theres a dietary thing going on, a food sensitivity you don't know you have. They can wreak havok on your system if you don't resolve them, so it might not hurt to check it out considering nothing else has worked so far. A blood test should be able to check for a nutrient deficiency, get one if you haven't already.

Best of luck!


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## Laus (Jul 9, 2010)

Weird double post...deleted #2.


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