# How do you relax?



## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

So my two sons (14 and 11) and I earned our first sashes the other night in lai tung pai kung fu.  I'm very proud of them (and myself); we all love it.  After the test, I asked for feedback, and Sifu told me I need to relax and try to use my lower body more with my movements.  I think I understand what he is saying; I think I understand the state of mind and body that I need to be in, but I'm having trouble getting there.  I wasn't particularly nervous testing, but of course I was to some degree, as that is part of the process.  Nervousness and even fear I can shake off, but even in situations where I'm not nervous in the least, I am told that I tense up.

It occurs to me that even though I am far from a type A personality, I have a hard time being in a relaxed state 24/7.  For instance, I have to practice some deep breathing at night or I'm up for hours before I fall asleep.  I'm always busy doing something or thinking.  

How do you relax when practicing kung fu?  I know it's possible because my sons can do it.   My youngest one almost looks bored!


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't know the answer to that (although I am a karateka, the 'relax' advice is the same).  I happen to be fairly relaxed and my body shows it.  I just do it, I do not know how.  We have some beginners in our dojo who are stiff and stilted and they bend over when they punch or kick instead of just sinking down into their stance and they know it.  They want to change but don't know how.  I don't know how to tell them to do it.  Hopefully, it just comes along; all the martial artists I know who have been doing it for awhile just relax and flow.  I guess I just don't get keyed up about it.  Just let it happen, man.  It might help me that I'm both fat and old.  Nothing much to get uptight about.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 30, 2012)

JamesGarr said:


> How do you relax when practicing kung fu?



Breathe


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## yak sao (Aug 30, 2012)

I had never heard of this particular style, so I researched it a bit....sounds like a fantastic style to train in.
As a general rule, going for slow and smooth execution of your forms will help you to relax. Don't be in a hurry to add power or speed to the movements, first make sure you are doing it correctly. 
Pay attention to what muscles are involved in a particular movement and "shut off" the muscles that aren't required.
And as stated by Xue, breathe.

Keep at it...it just takes a little time.


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## mook jong man (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't know what your particular system is , but let your movements be like that of a "dead weight".
Let your stance sink into the floor , and then find the bare minimum of muscular force you have to use in order to still be able to execute the technique properly.
Relaxation will come from many repetitions as the body becomes more efficient and learns to accomplish more with less effort.


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## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

Thank you for the replies so far.  For those interested in more information, you can find a description of Lai Tung Pai at http://www.mhkungfu.com/styles/lai-tung-pai.php.


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## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> Breathe



I do focus on this, especially when sparring, but I think I tend to inhale and exhale sharply.  Perhaps I'm not breathing deeply enough.


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## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't know the answer to that (although I am a karateka, the 'relax' advice is the same).  I happen to be fairly relaxed and my body shows it.  I just do it, I do not know how.  We have some beginners in our dojo who are stiff and stilted and they bend over when they punch or kick instead of just sinking down into their stance and they know it.  They want to change but don't know how.  I don't know how to tell them to do it.  Hopefully, it just comes along; all the martial artists I know who have been doing it for awhile just relax and flow.  I guess I just don't get keyed up about it.  Just let it happen, man.  It might help me that I'm both fat and old.  Nothing much to get uptight about.



The beginners you speak of sound exactly like me. I do try very hard to excel in class, but perhaps I'm trying too hard and need to stop trying to be a perfectionist and just try to detach myself a bit.


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## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

yak sao said:


> I had never heard of this particular style, so I researched it a bit....sounds like a fantastic style to train in.


I love it.  It has so much variety, but there is also a strategy to it that makes sense to me.



> As a general rule, going for slow and smooth execution of your forms will help you to relax. Don't be in a hurry to add power or speed to the movements, first make sure you are doing it correctly.



I think I'm good in this area.  I try to move slowly until I get it perfectly, and only then start to go faster.



> Pay attention to what muscles are involved in a particular movement and "shut off" the muscles that aren't required.
> .



That's something I haven't considered, thanks!


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## JamesGarr (Aug 30, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> I don't know what your particular system is , but let your movements be like that of a "dead weight".
> Let your stance sink into the floor , and then find the bare minimum of muscular force you have to use in order to still be able to execute the technique properly.
> Relaxation will come from many repetitions as the body becomes more efficient and learns to accomplish more with less effort.



Repetition is no problem, I love practicing.  I will have to focus on efficiency.  It is very likely that I am using a lot of muscles unnecessarily or with greater force than I need to. 

Ironically, thinking about relaxing makes it hard to relax.  It's driving me crazy; but I'm going to try to be patient, I know I can overcome this.


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## oaktree (Aug 30, 2012)

Try letting go. Relaxation is a paradox it is not something
doing it is something not doing.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 31, 2012)

JamesGarr said:


> I do focus on this, especially when sparring, but I think I tend to inhale and exhale sharply.  Perhaps I'm not breathing deeply enough.




Just Beathe normally.... nice relaxed breathing


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## WC_lun (Aug 31, 2012)

Breathing is good for relaxation.  I see so many people hold thier breath when performing kung fu and doing exactly what you say you are doing, tensing up.  Pick one part of your body to focus on.  Since your Sifu says you are having problems connecting lower and upper, perhaps focusing on your hips would be good.  Go through your form and drills while exploring what is going on with your hips and how they feel when you do something in a correct manner.  It'll help you keep from tensing and help you gain a little insight.  Finally, understand even martial experts mess up occasionally.  Try your best, but don't hang onto the fear of "not doing it right."  That puts a ton of pressure on your shoulders and suprise, causes a person to tense up.  You are not expected to be perfect 

Good luck to you and your boys in your training.


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## mograph (Aug 31, 2012)

All good advice.
We often try to make too many things happen, when we should be _letting_ more things happen. (along the lines of what Oaktree wrote)
One manifestation of this would be, as Yak Sao wrote, to relax the muscles you don't need. Maybe not completely, of course.

Less making, more letting. 
In time you'll find the right balance between them.


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## JamesGarr (Aug 31, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Since your Sifu says you are having problems connecting lower and upper, perhaps focusing on your hips would be good.
> 
> Good luck to you and your boys in your training.



This makes sense.  Thank you!


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## JamesGarr (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm still struggling with this, but I thought I'd update you all that I've made progress.  I was doing hu bud drills with my son and noticed I was doing better than normal.  At some point during the drill I realized that when I let my hands relax my blocks were much faster.  A few minutes into it I received praise for being relaxed.  

My forms are still too tense and fast, and I have plenty of room for improvement, but I feel like I'm making progress on this, and that realization that I'm not hopeless is helping me relax even more.  I think making a conscious effort to relax is paying off in the long run, even though sometimes it is counterproductive and gets me worked up.

I've used every bit of advice in this thread.  Thank you all.


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## J W (Sep 19, 2012)

Relaxation is something I have been thinking about a fair bit lately. We have a couple new students at our kwoon who are having a tough time relaxing. I find myself working with them fairly often, and trying to find new ways get them to relax. I had a difficult time with relaxation as well when I first started, and now I'm trying to explain how to overcome this to people who are where I was only about a year ago.

First, I think it is a long process. When I work with these new, stiff sidai, they comment on how relaxed I am during my movements. So I've made plenty of progress since I was in their shoes. But when I work with my sihing, they will often tell me that I'm still too stiff, so I guess I'm still not yet where I need to be. I spend plenty of time playing my Siu Nim Tao form (not sure if your style has something similar) very slowly to try and improve my level of relaxation.

Second, I think it comes back to your mindset; you can't relax physically unless you are relaxed mentally. I can see on the faces of these new students when they go from a mentally relaxed state to emergency mode- that is, if I go from a slow, rythmic pace where they are comfortable to a quick broken rythm, their eyes get big and they hold their breath as they mentally try to deal with what is coming at them- and of course this mental tension turns quickly into physical tension. 

Anyway, just throwing a couple of thoughts out there. It can be a deceptively difficult thing, this relaxation. Just keep at it a don't let it frustrate you.


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## JamesGarr (Sep 19, 2012)

I do believe we have a form similar to Siu Nim Tao, but I have not yet learned it.  I will keep your advice in mind when I do learn it, and I will also try to do the forms I do know more slowly, or at least at a more even pace.

I was doing our Sup Ji form with my usual vigor last night and then at the end slowed down when I got to a part I was still learning.  But Sifu pointed out that I wasn't really slowing down enough.  He suggested I do the entire form at the same pace, so I should go as slow as my slowest part from beginning to end.  The concept of thinking about the entire form at once is new to me, but I think I get what he's saying there.  It was also pointed out to me that as I get tired, I get sloppy at the end, and need to pace myself and to focus more at the end.

It really is a test of patience and perseverance, but I am enjoying the journey.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 5, 2012)

JamesGarr said:


> Sifu told me I need to relax and try to *use my lower body more with my movements*.



This is important and it is my impression that many (most?) people have a lot of difficulty with this.  I even see a lot of people who seem to have no concept of it at all.  Does your system have a method for developing this ability?  Are there drills that you do that help develop this skill?  They may be drills that are completely separate from martial technique application, but help you understand how to connect the body as one unit and drive your technique from the power of the legs and the ground.

My system does have a very specific method for doing this, and before I trained in my system I had trained in some others.  It wasn't until I had the hindsight that I understood the difference and I realized that in the past I had no concept of how to do that and no method for helping to develop it.

I suggest you specifically ask your sifu how you can go about developing that understanding and that ability, what method of practicing it or what drills might he recommend.  Hopefully there is something in the teaching methodology that he can teach you and get you working on.  I find that it is something that takes constant practice.  Much of my training, every time I train, is taken up with this kind of drill, working to reinforce that full body connection.  Without that, everything is weaker.


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## Doomx2001 (Oct 5, 2012)

I would say just breathe, and empty your mind. Don't try to do your forms or techniques, just do them. Allow your arms and legs to have 'bend' in them. Use more of your body and focus on your breathing.
Do not be afraid to fail and don't try to win, just do. Sort of like when a ball player gets in the 'zone'.


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## Danny T (Oct 7, 2012)

Relax says Sifu. I am relaxing as hard asI can
How do I relax? You are not the first toask and many more will follow.
First off you are doing something that isdifferent and unfamiliar. That alone breeds tension. Wanting to do well and topresent your forms (yourself) well (properly) breeds tension. It is always a mentalthing. Free your mind and the body will follow. Easy to say extremely hard todo.

So how do you relax? How is it the othersappear so relaxed in their movements and presentations? How are they able to dothe drills with such a relaxed state and yet be so powerful?

Experience. Time in doing. Repetition,repetition, repetition Repetition is the mother of skill.
One becomes familiar with what ishappening, what it feels like, where it is happening, how it is happening,why it is happening all with experience. You can relax because you know whatto expect, when to expect it, and IF it doesnt happen that way you know why.Immediately due to experience. That is why Martial Arts training is notsomething one can do every now and then or be watched and then know what to do.It must be tactile. It must be felt, for some of us, thousands of times. Therewill always be those who seem to get it fast. So what? Dont compare yourselfto them, compare yourself to you. Their experience is not your experience.

To be able to instantly define; range,speed, power, timing, pressure, angle of attack and to coordinate the limbs,body, and mind in that mille-second takes experience.

Experience comes from doing the many drillsthat build the attributes and develops the feel of the technique possibilitieswithin movement. Keep doing your forms to learn feel of the movements into thepositions or structures of your system. Keep working the partner drills andplay with what the different amounts of pressure does or how it changes thefeeling of the drill. Do this with as little movement or tension as possible.Just enough to be in the proper place or structure. Drills are for you to learnabout you, they are not a competition for who is better, stronger, or faster.Learn to feel your training partner, learn to feel yourself and in time youwill be relaxed.

Take your time, have fun, do your best, and enjoy the journey.


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## JamesGarr (Oct 7, 2012)

I have decided there are two things I need to do to get to where I need to be.  I need to consciously do things that promote relaxation, like practicing a lot, which I do anyway, and making an effort to breathe normally and let my shoulders drop, and to move my hips and lower body more.

But I also need to put it out of my mind, and just go with it.  So my strategy is now to begin practice with conscious thought on relaxation, but once it begins in earnest to put it out of my mind and not worry about it.

I feel like I've made progress but I guess I still have a way to go.  Last week in class a visiting sifu teaching us various kicks commented that I seem tense and need to use my lower body more.  Yesterday a fellow student at a Tai Chi throwing seminar said I need to relax my upper body and use my hips more.  I'm thinking at the time "This is as relaxed as I get!"   It's almost comical at this point.


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## JamesGarr (Oct 7, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> This is important and it is my impression that many (most?) people have a lot of difficulty with this.  I even see a lot of people who seem to have no concept of it at all.  Does your system have a method for developing this ability?  Are there drills that you do that help develop this skill?  They may be drills that are completely separate from martial technique application, but help you understand how to connect the body as one unit and drive your technique from the power of the legs and the ground.
> 
> My system does have a very specific method for doing this, and before I trained in my system I had trained in some others.  It wasn't until I had the hindsight that I understood the difference and I realized that in the past I had no concept of how to do that and no method for helping to develop it.
> 
> I suggest you specifically ask your sifu how you can go about developing that understanding and that ability, what method of practicing it or what drills might he recommend.  Hopefully there is something in the teaching methodology that he can teach you and get you working on.  I find that it is something that takes constant practice.  Much of my training, every time I train, is taken up with this kind of drill, working to reinforce that full body connection.  Without that, everything is weaker.



I will ask him, thanks.


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## JamesGarr (Oct 7, 2012)

Danny T said:


> Relax says Sifu. &#8220;I am relaxing as hard asI can&#8221;



This is exactly the conversations I've had.    thanks


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 7, 2012)

In order to achieve the maximum relaxation, all your 3 joints, wrist joint, elbow joint, shoulder joint have to be loosed up first. There are some exercises that can help you to achieve that.


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