# wing chun/wing tsun



## bob919 (Jan 20, 2003)

they are the same arent they?


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## Astra (Jan 20, 2003)

Basically, more or less. AFAIK, WingTsun is Leung Ting's slightly modified version of WC and the different name is more of a trademark. Can someone please correct me if I am wrong


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## Pyros (Jan 20, 2003)

That's more or less correct. There are at least a dozen different Wing Chun styles and to create distance between the organizations they have trademarked some names. For example Leung Ting trademarked "Wing Tsun" so whenever you see that writing you know it's his style. When ever you see "Traditional Wing Chun" you know it's from the organization of William Cheung. There's also Ving Tsun, Wing Tsung, Wing Tsung Evolution, etc. They are just names that distinquish a certain style.


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## arnisador (Jan 20, 2003)

See also the Wing Chun forum.


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 21, 2003)

Seems like every martial art has fractured into a thousand branches. All because of ego, money and politics.


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## fringe_dweller (Jan 21, 2003)

Probably best to keep a respectful attitude rather than beginning a flame war? I don't think this will aid the discussion much.

Respectfully,


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 21, 2003)

Excuse me? What are you talking about?

For those who are interested in the infighting in the WC world,
http://www.bullshido.us/article_read.asp?id=52

There is also a vid clip on that.


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## fringe_dweller (Jan 21, 2003)

Your previous post is exactly what I mean - pointing people to where they can find out about infighting within systems is not going to promote any kind of positive feedback or comment, it will only start a flame war. The mature response would be to keep any information that is going to be derogatory towards anyone to yourself.

Respectfully,


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 21, 2003)

Excuse me again. What is your problem, Mister?

Who died and made you the guardian of what people should know or not know?

Are we to hide information now? What gives you the right to tell people what public info to share and not to share?  Do you own this site? 

Besides,   the info is already listed in the WingChun section.  I just read it there this morning.


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## fringe_dweller (Jan 21, 2003)

Hey, just trying to keep on track with the topic. He asked for the differences and you want to talk about internal politics. That stuff *normally* turns out badly. Not trying to cause you grief, sorry if it came across that way.

Respectfully,


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 21, 2003)

These are not kids here. People are mature enough to decide whether they want to flame or not. They don't need people to censor what they can read.

Besides, it is the internal fighting that gave rise to all the different branches. Why should that fact be hidden from people?  Do you seriously think you can whitewash and hide things from people?


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## fringe_dweller (Jan 21, 2003)

My last post on this thread as it's not going anywhere constructive.
My point was simply that it seemed (although I could be wrong) that you were quite quick to point out the infighting in WC. This is going to do nothing constructive for the point of this thread. That is not "whitewashing" as you call it, simply keeping things civil and on track. Not posting stuff which is negative towards any MA's in my books is quite simply respectful. If a question is asked about style, respond with style. If a question is asked about politics reply then reply about politics.

If you wish to debate this then please PM me rather than us hijacking this thread for that purpose.

Respectfully,


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## Johnathan Napalm (Jan 21, 2003)

I was simply making a comment on how every MA has fractured into different branches. WC broke into different branches b/c of internal fighting. Kyokushin broke into a dozen offshoots b/c of internal fighting, ego and politics. TKD broke into different camps b/c of politics. 

I don't see anything wrong about sharing info on the ins and outs of how all these branches came about.  I don't see why you have to butt in with some holier than thou lecture. I don't see any one flaming anyone here.


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## Cthulhu (Jan 21, 2003)

I thought William Cheung's system was 'Classical Wing Chun', with 'Traditional Wing Chun' supposedly being the modified form Yip Man taught the majority of his students, and 'Classical' being the "real" Wing Chun taught only to Cheung.

Cthulhu


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## Pyros (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *I thought William Cheung's system was 'Classical Wing Chun', with 'Traditional Wing Chun' supposedly being the modified form Yip Man taught the majority of his students, and 'Classical' being the "real" Wing Chun taught only to Cheung.
> 
> Cthulhu *



You may be correct, I pulled the terms off my hat and may have remembered something the wrong way.


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## Pyros (Jan 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *I was simply making a comment on how every MA has fractured into different branches. WC broke into different branches b/c of internal fighting.*



Not entirely true. You are talking about the sub-organizations of one branch: that of Yip Man. The main reason for splitting the WC into separate styles was the fact that the original WC people got scattered around and the red opera was discontinued. This didn't involve that much infighting or politics, just survival and fleeing to different directions (geographically).

The Yip Man branch is one of these splinters and what you are talking about is the sub branching of that style, which truly is mostly politics nowadays. That doesn't mean the styles don't have technical differences though, quite the contrary: one of the reasons for the infighting is based on the techniques: some organizations add and modify the stuff, others say they teach the absolute original style. Now this gives a fine basis for politics and fighting - one says the original system is better and the others teach watered down version. The others counter that the original system was flawed and had to be modified and added on to work in the modern open arenas. Who is right? Don't ask me. I'm just trying to explain the splintering in a neutral way.


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## MartialArtist (Jan 23, 2003)

The arguing with factions is pretty useless.  Then you got thugs from each faction trying to battle each other or challenging people when they were just giving a demonstration.


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