# Star Trek + Red Shirt = not so good



## Xue Sheng (Mar 13, 2008)

Analytics According to Captain Kirk


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## terryl965 (Mar 13, 2008)

That is why I always hated red t-*****.


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## harlan (Mar 13, 2008)

So true!  

Quote: _What? You don't know about the Red Shirt Phenomenon? Well, as any die-hard Trekkie knows, if you are wearing a red shirt and beam to the planet with Captain Kirk, you're gonna die. _


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## stone_dragone (Mar 13, 2008)

Simply brilliant.

Its also bad mojo to communicate the discovery of anything.

"...Sir, I think I've found something....ARGNHHH..."


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## grydth (Mar 13, 2008)

I can recall that being a guest on many TV action shows of the era was a (television) death sentence. 

I used to like the WWII shows like Combat....... When the firefight breaks out with a German patrol - - -  who gets shot (besides, inevitanly, all the Germans)?  The 'guest stars", Hollywood cannon fodder.

I'd bet being the new guy in Sgt Saunder's squad was easily as deadly as being on Cpt Kirk's beam down party.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 13, 2008)

CAPTAIN KIRK: We need to.......send.....anawayteam........downtothe....planet.....and ex.....plore......the away.....team....shall....consistof....myself....First....OfficerSpock........Doctor....McCoyand......ENSIGNRICKY!"

ENSIGN RICKY: Aw crap.


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## Lisa (Mar 13, 2008)

When I was younger I used to wish that Star Trek was still making episodes so that I could some day play a red shirted crew member and get killed on an away mission.


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## Carol (Mar 13, 2008)

Yellow-shirt crewperson deaths: 6 (10%)
Blue-Shirt crewperson deaths: 5 (8 %)
*Engineering smock crewperson deaths: 4*
Red-Shirt crewperson deaths: 43 (73%)
Its good to be an engineer


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 13, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> Yellow-shirt crewperson deaths: 6 (10%)
> Blue-Shirt crewperson deaths: 5 (8 %)
> *Engineering smock crewperson deaths: 4*
> Red-Shirt crewperson deaths: 43 (73%)
> Its good to be an engineer


 

Ye STILL cannae change the laws o'physics, Carol!


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## arnisador (Mar 13, 2008)

_Galaxy Quest _covered this well...


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 13, 2008)

"But I DIED..........*IN EPISODE 81!!!!!!!"*


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## Drac (Mar 13, 2008)

arnisador said:


> _Galaxy Quest _covered this well...


 
Yes they did...


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## Sukerkin (Mar 13, 2008)

Excuse me for a moment whilst I bask in the memory of Sigourney Weaver in the guise of a flirtaceous blond : mmm : ... oh, sorry, where was I?  Er, Captain I think I've fo ... erk!


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Mar 14, 2008)

Revealing some of my Trekker geekishness here:
On ST:TOS, they were called "landing parties". They were not (if memory serves) called "away teams" until ST:TNG came along. 

"Landing party". Not much of a party if you wore a red shirt.


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## harlan (Mar 14, 2008)

Any favorite episodes or read any of the early works about the series? I was always partial to Harlan Ellison's 'City'. (Note the moniker   )  

Speaking of which...in his inimitable Ellison style...'pay the writer!'  LOL!


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## Live True (Mar 14, 2008)

harlan said:


> Speaking of which...in his inimitable Ellison style...'pay the writer!' LOL!


:rofl:  I Love a man with brains and brass!  A lovely Ellison rant, thank you!


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## Sukerkin (Mar 14, 2008)

I enjoyed the Ellison clip too - true words, harshly spoken but true nontheless when it comes to the treatment of writers in this video and marketing age.

As an aside, has anyone else been keeping up with the "Of Gods and Men" internet movie?  It's taken a long while to gestate but the cast list is packed with Trek regulars from every series there's been and the story is fascinating, as Spock would say.  

With limited funds the special effects are not excactly Trek Movie standard but who cares with a good story?

For those of us who are Kirk fans, even tho' he's not in it, the 'footprint' of James T. Kirk is most satisfying.  Given that, when I was I kid and we played Star Trek in the yard, I was always Kirk you can guess how pleased I am .

Thinking about it, those Trek games with my primary school friends had quite a foretelling effect of their own.  Andy always played Doctor McCoy and went on to be a biologist, Dave always played Scottie and went on to be a mechanical engineer and Paul favoured Spock and he was a physicist last I heard .  If I'd've been allowed, I'd've been in the Royal Navy and may well have made Captain by now ... oh for might have beens .


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## harlan (Jul 14, 2008)

bump 

Not sure if there some kind of semi-official ST thread here...but wanted to share this vid that popped up on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMrofWrbmMw&feature=rec-fresh


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## MBuzzy (Jul 14, 2008)

They NEEDED the red shirts to die.  The away team consisted of the ENTIRE LEADERSHIP STAFF OF THE SHIP.  So if anyone OTHER than the red shirt died, they were in trouble.

I mean seriously....why would you send your 3 highest ranking officers on EVERY mission??


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## MA-Caver (Jul 14, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> arnisador said:
> 
> 
> > _Galaxy Quest _covered this well...
> ...


Sam Rockwell is such a talented diverse actor. His combination of sleaze and wimpiness was perfect for that role. 

"I don't even have a last name, that's why my character is expendable!" 

"I know that I wanted to come along because something would've happened to my character if I stayed aboard the ship but now I realize that something could happen to me while I'm down on the planet!" ... (just can't win!)


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## Kacey (Jul 14, 2008)

Now, come on... Scotty wore a red shirt the whole time, and he didn't die - it's only characters in red shirts who aren't _regulars_ - every time one of them shows up - WATCH OUT!!!


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 14, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Now, come on... Scotty wore a red shirt the whole time, and he didn't die - it's only characters in red shirts who aren't _regulars_ - every time one of them shows up - WATCH OUT!!!


 
ok one lived


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## Jenna (Jul 14, 2008)

As an aside, I could not suggest a more fitting denouement to your next Trek Party  than William Shatner's "Has Been", if you can get it.. Sung in his own, ahem, inimitable style has a great and actually really poignant track done with Ben Folds I think "That's me Trying", no really.  Cool cover of Pulp's Common People too.. No I mean it.. 

Anyways, never mind the _colour _of the shirts, at least when TNG happened, they had acquired a ship's tailor *with a better eye for fit*!  Spandex, pffft..  

Kirk was an anachronism even in the day, sez me.  I say writers can never better Jean Luc Picard for a fair and evenhanded captain.  NEVER I say!!  Though they did try, pity them.  What a load of humourless trash was DS9 and only marginally less so, Janeway and her fawning, tamed-renegade crew.  Sorry, but it is all incontestable truth   If JLP were my earthly boss, I would never go home  

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## harlan (Jul 14, 2008)

Get real. 'Make it so'? JLP=Wimp.


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## Jenna (Jul 14, 2008)

harlan said:


> Get real. 'Make it so'? JLP=Wimp.


Dude!  No ways   Kirk = John Wayne, JLP = Bruce Lee 
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Sukerkin (Jul 14, 2008)

I've never, ever, thought of it that way *Jenna* :bow:.

Kirk was certainly John Wayne/Gary Cooper in his straight approach to problems.  Picard as Bruce Lee tho' ... hmm ... I'm not so sure.  The (fictional) man was a consumate diplomat/wordsmith as well as a keen strategist and a staunch tactician.  Reminds me more of a Nelson/Churchill/Shakespeare hybrid .

As to his supposedly being of French extraction - clearly he was as English as the day is long .


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## Lisa (Jul 14, 2008)

Jenna;1010035

Kirk was an anachronism even in the day said:


> Oh I so agree!  JLP was hot! hot! hot!  Never a better captain there will be!
> 
> Two things that were inevitable about an original star trek episode:
> 
> ...


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 14, 2008)

Lisa said:


> Oh I so agree! JLP was hot! hot! hot! Never a better captain there will be!
> 
> Two things that were inevitable about an original star trek episode:
> 
> ...


 
And whatever woman Kirk gets romantically involved with.... later dies.

I do believe the female companions of Kirk have less of a chance of survival than a red shirt


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## MBuzzy (Jul 14, 2008)

I was always waiting for an explanation to that Frenchman with an English accent thing.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 14, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I was always waiting for an explanation to that Frenchman with an English accent thing.


 

ummm.... aaaaaa... its the Federation there is no longer a France :idunno:


aaaaa... by the time JLP is born every other country has realized that it is just plain silly to NOT speak english and only english all those other languages just make it to confusing


hmmmm....I GOT IT!!!!! Babelfish...DAMN wrong Sifi show


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## Kacey (Jul 14, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> And whatever woman Kirk gets romantically involved with.... later dies.
> 
> I do believe the female companions of Kirk have less of a chance of survival than a red shirt



Now, c'mon... half of them didn't die, they ended up married to someone else!


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## MA-Caver (Jul 15, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Now, c'mon... half of them didn't die, they ended up married to someone else!


Well, some of them did. 
Edith Keeler, played by Joan Collins who was hot looking back then.
That Indian princess, Miramani (?) who was so hot... died

But yeah, some did get married or went off with their own species
(shoot, forgot the name of the episode) the aliens who adopted human form and were able to shrink crew members into polygons (cubes). 

Some of them were just plain psycho and one was a salt vampire.


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## harlan (Jul 15, 2008)

*Sigh* You're not a trekkie/er if you can't name every episode. 'By Any Other Name.' 



MA-Caver said:


> (shoot, forgot the name of the episode) the aliens who adopted human form and were able to shrink crew members into polygons (cubes).


 
 Trivia question: which episode is missing from this site? A darn good one too...

http://www.cbs.com/classics/star_trek/video/video.php


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## Jenna (Jul 15, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Picard as Bruce Lee tho' ... hmm ... I'm not so sure. The (fictional) man was a consumate diplomat/wordsmith as well as a keen strategist and a staunch tactician.



.. EXACTLY my friend - a succinct description of Bruce Lee..  Philosopher, writer, tactician etc. etc.  But I am off in happy digressions.. 



Lisa said:


> Oh I so agree! JLP was hot! hot! hot! Never a better captain there will be!


Yay Lisa!!  And I am not generally a fan of shorn men and but I will make the exception for  JLP anydays   The combination of intellect and sensitivity and manliness without the Kirk machismo, wow.. ahem.. sorry.  Tea, Earl Grey, hot!!!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 15, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Now, c'mon... half of them didn't die, they ended up married to someone else!


 
Yup and then thier whole family died


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## harlan (Jul 15, 2008)

Hmmpph. For what it's worth, in my opinion, the best man for the job never wanted it.  

I 'grok Spock'...and wish we could have seen a series with a Vulcan at the helm.



Jenna said:


> .. EXACTLY my friend - a succinct description of Bruce Lee.. Philosopher, writer, tactician etc. etc. But I am off in happy digressions..
> 
> 
> Yay Lisa!! And I am not generally a fan of shorn men and but I will make the exception for JLP anydays  The combination of intellect and sensitivity and manliness without the Kirk machismo, wow.. ahem.. sorry. Tea, Earl Grey, hot!!!
> ...


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## Lisa (Jul 15, 2008)

harlan said:


> Hmmpph. For what it's worth, in my opinion, the best man for the job never wanted it. I 'grok Spock'...and wish we could have seen a series with a Vulcan at the helm.



Well if we are going to look at "the best man for the job" scenario then give me Warf any day...so sexy, so tough and yet so human.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 15, 2008)

harlan said:


> *Sigh* You're not a trekkie/er if you can't name every episode. 'By Any Other Name.'


Well, sue me. Never claimed to be a trekkie, I just enjoyed the original show and appreciated TNG and the movies... 



harlan said:


> Trivia question: which episode is missing from this site? A darn good one too...
> 
> http://www.cbs.com/classics/star_trek/video/video.php


The pilot silly, "The Cage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cage_(TOS_episode)


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## harlan (Jul 15, 2008)

A good second in command...but...as a tactician...nope. But have admit...a guy who knows how to use a 'sword' has his uses. :knight2:


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## MA-Caver (Jul 15, 2008)

Here's one trivia...
Name a redshirt that _wasn't_ a redshirt but still got killed off while on a landing party. and name the episode.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 15, 2008)

Red shirt women don't get killed. So that means the Red shirt grants immunity to women. Because of its divine powers on women any man who wears it should have the opposite effect and die.:lol:


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## Kacey (Jul 15, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Red shirt women don't get killed. So that means the Red shirt grants immunity to women. Because of its divine powers on women any man who wears it should have the opposite effect and die.:lol:


Well, of course!  You have to have karmic balance within the universe - so if the red shirt protects one gender, it must, therefore, kill the other to maintain balance... or perhaps the red discriminates in favor of women... hmm... an interesting thought...


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## kwaichang (Jul 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Analytics According to Captain Kirk


As a Trekker or Trekkor  :high5:  (yep that's what we called ourselves, not what the media tagged us with) since the first convention, I found the analysis quite impressive.

Live Long and Prosper.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 15, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Red shirt women don't get killed. So that means the Red shirt grants immunity to women. Because of its divine powers on women any man who wears it should have the opposite effect and die.:lol:


 
But were the woman of the old star trek series were not red shirts but red skirts, dresses or whatever the heck they are called so that could be why they were not killed off


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## kwaichang (Jul 15, 2008)

IIRC red shirts were security and they were only men; TOS.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 15, 2008)

The Red skirt as worn by Uhura has similar patterns to the Red shirt.

Maybe Red shirt were cross dressers and wore slacks to hide their Skirt and perhaps on the ship they were known as the "Red light district"
:lol:

It's a good thing I was not a Star Trek writer.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> But were the woman of the old star trek series were not red shirts but red skirts, dresses or whatever the heck they are called so that could be why they were not killed off


Uhura and Rand wore red (short) dresses but of course there were different colors and variations I believe throughout TOS. Still pretty hot for television for the day... no wonder nerds/geeks love the show. :uhyeah: 
Besides the writers were still in the pre-feminist Gloria Steinem, gentlemanly way of writing... women were more active and equal on the show true, but were not security personnel  or anything that might be "dangerous", and I cannot recall (not being a *TRUE* Trekkie) if there were ever women in high ranking command positions in the TOS.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 15, 2008)

You had to go and mention Yeoman Rand didn't you?  How am I supposed to contribute anything sensible to the thread now with my mind all awash once more with teenage retro-hormones :lol:.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 15, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Uhura and Rand wore red (short) dresses but of course there were different colors and variations I believe throughout TOS. Still pretty hot for television for the day... no wonder nerds/geeks love the show. :uhyeah:
> Besides the writers were still in the pre-feminist Gloria Steinem, gentlemanly way of writing... women were more active and equal on the show true, but were not security personnel or anything that might be "dangerous", and I cannot recall (not being a *TRUE* Trekkie) if there were ever women in high ranking command positions in the TOS.


 
I could be wrong but I seem to remember someone once asking Roddenberry why he had all the woman dress in short dresses and I think his answer was something very scientific and cerebral like I like short dresses on woman


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 15, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> You had to go and mention Yeoman Rand didn't you? How am I supposed to contribute anything sensible to the thread now with my mind all awash once more with teenage retro-hormones :lol:.


 

How things have changed in the newest series


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## Sukerkin (Jul 15, 2008)

Purty!  Tho' Voyager would probably still be my ship of choice ...


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## MA-Caver (Jul 15, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> You had to go and mention Yeoman Rand didn't you?  How am I supposed to contribute anything sensible to the thread now with my mind all awash once more with teenage retro-hormones :lol:.


While Rand was definitely a hottie... Uhura was sexier with her subtle flirting with the crew and the command, she also knew how to use her sexuality to help the ship from time to time (Mirror Mirror where she told Sulu's alter that she was bored).


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## Jenna (Jul 15, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Purty!  Tho' Voyager would probably still be my ship of choice ...


Hmmm..  Ah my deadly friend, for the specialised weaponry no doubt? ..And nothing at all, whatsoever, in any way to do with a certain Ms Jeri Ryan of course..   I dunno.. you guys 
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Jenna (Jul 15, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> While Rand was definitely a hottie... Uhura was sexier with her subtle flirting with the crew and the command, she also knew how to use her sexuality to help the ship from time to time (Mirror Mirror where she told Sulu's alter that she was bored).


Damnit, what happened to emancipation?  Uhura was nothing more than pure blaxploitation was she not??  They HAD to rectify Uhura's outfit and the whole Kirk machismo thing with TNG.. the ABSOLUTE BEST series imnsvho   And but the writers got their pleats a little too caught up in 1990s PC and gave us Janeway.. I mean, as an eyes-shut, gung-ho leader.. man what kind of scripting joke was that?   Pffft..
Yr mst obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


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## Sukerkin (Jul 15, 2008)

Oddly, altho' Ms Ryan did look wonderful in 'civvies', I was more drawn to B'Elanna Torres.  Must be the engineer in me :lol:.  

Or maybe I just had empathy with her struggle to contain her temper (hard for me to do in the years since my bike smash squished my brains somewhat) .  That's certainly the case with K'ehleyr - the scene where she smashes a glass table with her fist rang very close-to-home for my 'Inner Klingon' .


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## jks9199 (Jul 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> How things have changed in the newest series


But wouldn't this pic be more in keeping with the hormonal theme...


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## harlan (Jul 15, 2008)

Regarding Uhura and her underwritten role...I recall an interview where she stated she was quitting...and was convinced by MLK...to stay and make a difference. I'm glad she made the decision. Sure...the part could have been more...but ST did stretch the boundaries (as far as that genre, the medium and audience would allow).

And after meeting her in person...I can attest...the camera simply didn't do justice. A beautiful woman, and lovely lady.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 15, 2008)

Hilarious.


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## kwaichang (Jul 15, 2008)

Uhura wore command insignia as she was in charge of communications/bridge assignment.  As for the skirt issue, Roddenbery did choose it.  a note:  he and Nichelle were quite an item for a time.

There were two red colors used in TOS for uniforms; one we'd call "red" and the other "blood".


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## kwaichang (Jul 15, 2008)

harlan said:


> Regarding Uhura and her underwritten role...I recall an interview where she stated she was quitting...and was convinced by MLK...to stay and make a difference. I'm glad she made the decision. Sure...the part could have been more...but ST did stretch the boundaries (as far as that genre, the medium and audience would allow).
> 
> And after meeting her in person...I can attest...the camera simply didn't do justice. A beautiful woman, and lovely lady.


Indeed, MLK did tell her to stay, and she is one classy lady.





and James is missed by us all as a fun loving and very bright actor.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 15, 2008)

Aye, I do concur with that, laddie :tup:.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 15, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> But wouldn't this pic be more in keeping with the hormonal theme...


 
Yes, yes I beleive it would


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## Kacey (Jul 15, 2008)

harlan said:


> Regarding Uhura and her underwritten role...I recall an interview where she stated she was quitting...and was convinced by MLK...to stay and make a difference. I'm glad she made the decision. Sure...the part could have been more...but ST did stretch the boundaries (as far as that genre, the medium and audience would allow).
> 
> And after meeting her in person...I can attest...the camera simply didn't do justice. A beautiful woman, and lovely lady.



I had heard the same thing about MLK.  I also seem to recall that Gene Roddenberry did not originally intend to differentiate between genders in the uniforms (see The Cage, previously reference, and notice that Number 1 wears pants) - but that the network made him, "to increase interest in the show", and that the short skirts were in keeping with fashions at the time TOS was produced.


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## harlan (Mar 19, 2009)

bump

Now...you know you want it  :

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/garden/19trek.html?_r=1&hp

And if you ever wondered about the MA efficacy of the famous 'Shatner Drop Kick':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgtPb4-ou1A&feature=channel


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 19, 2009)

And yet there are no Red Shirt security guys anywhere in sight 

Oh man those guys have way to much time and money on thier hands :lol:

I will have to check out the deadly drop kick later


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