# Does your teacher teach you to grab weapons?



## still learning (Mar 16, 2006)

Hello, This month's Black Belt magazine (March,2006) has article about a teacher who teach's the students to grab anything around them to be use for a weapon to fight back with,(sticks,anything,etc.) when fighting an attacker on the streets.

They train in the class to look for things to use.....against an aggressor!

I remember Bruce Lee said the same thing...he too would grab something to use....only fool will fight with his fist first! (Street fights).

Does your teacher train you in class when sparring around, and leave things (training bags) on the ground as obstacles? and possible weapons to grab? 

Something to think about????? ................Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Mar 16, 2006)

I remeber that it was always stressed during conversations and training for us, back in the day. However, training through the years got away from that (commercialization ?) and just stuck to straight forms practice and technique practice. When I used to do it, on tests, or whatever, the senior instructors were impressed, the newer ones looked shocked.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 16, 2006)

we'll often ask students to pick up a weapon and perform an open-hand technique.  we'll also ask students to pick up any object not traditionally considered a weapon and perform an open-hand technique.

it's a good drill to choose a random object and figure out how to use it as a weapon.


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## bobster_ice (Mar 23, 2006)

In Ninjutsu we have been told that everything is a weapon.

Example: A shoe
             A wall
             A brick
And most importantly, your fists.

Bobby


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## SFC JeffJ (Mar 23, 2006)

Where I study, we don't do it during normal classes, just testings.  I'd like to see some regular classes in which we did that though.  Heck, I'll mention it to my wife, she just got her Sandan.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 23, 2006)

as far as I am concerned if it can be picked up it is a weapon.  Come to think about it pushing objects ( wheelborows, lawnmowers, etc.) also are weapons
do I do it in class   weeeelllll sometimes


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## Brandon Fisher (Apr 15, 2006)

In some circumstances I do teach that such as if the attacker has a weapon.


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## Henderson (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything is a weapon from my body to the immediate surroundings. (parked cars, fire hydrants, etc.):mp5:


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## Jimi (Apr 15, 2006)

Yes, I learned about weapons at hand in elementary school. Some older kids tried to, for lack of a better term, shake us down for our lunch money (there were 3 of us) at the local boys club just outside of DC. My older bothers coached the football & baseball teams, so I knew the equipment room lock combination. Needless to say, when we came out of the equip. room wearing football helmets, shoulder pads, shin guards, carrying bats and throwing trash cans, we were well prepared. Although it was the mid 70's and firearms were not as common back then, nowa days that would have gotten us shot. Weapons at hand is a great priciple to teach and practice.


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## Henderson (Apr 15, 2006)

Jimi said:
			
		

> ...when we came out of the equip. room wearing football helmets, shoulder pads, shin guards, carrying bats and throwing trash cans, we were well prepared...


Yes!  I love it!


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## Aruden (Apr 16, 2006)

That's what Paul Vunak teaches and emphasizes on a lot. You have to look for an equalizer  in a street fight to have an advantage or not being to much disadvantaged. This can be a car antenna, a pool club, a rock anything when it comes to streetfighting.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 16, 2006)

Most (* I have not seen all personally so I qualify *) FMA's teach the translation of weapon techniques to other weapons and to empty hands. This means that anything becomes a weapon from your cheap Bic Pen to the can of tuna fish you find in a parking lot.


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## still learning (Apr 16, 2006)

Aruden said:
			
		

> That's what Paul Vunak teaches and emphasizes on a lot. You have to look for an equalizer in a street fight to have an advantage or not being to much disadvantaged. This can be a car antenna, a pool club, a rock anything when it comes to streetfighting.


 
Paul Vunak...has some of the most practical ideas....well respected here...he teaches real world self-defence...his training will keep you alive...Thank-you for sharing.......Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Apr 18, 2006)

I'll third that!


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## beau_safken (Apr 18, 2006)

Silat players would not grab a weapon unless all the cards were on the table and you drew a 3 of clubs on the river.  We train to go after the parts of the body holding the weapons not the actual weapon.  Controlling the shoulder, elbow, wrist make for a lot less damage.  Sides...the bones in your hand are not made of steel and will break with the force of a weapon coming down for the strike.  We were taught to go for the core of the person...you might get hit or cut on the way in but they get one chance.


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## still learning (Apr 18, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> Silat players would not grab a weapon unless all the cards were on the table and you drew a 3 of clubs on the river. We train to go after the parts of the body holding the weapons not the actual weapon. Controlling the shoulder, elbow, wrist make for a lot less damage. Sides...the bones in your hand are not made of steel and will break with the force of a weapon coming down for the strike. We were taught to go for the core of the person...you might get hit or cut on the way in but they get one chance.


 
Hello, Good point here....thank-you....Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Apr 18, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> Silat players would not grab a weapon unless all the cards were on the table and you drew a 3 of clubs on the river. We train to go after the parts of the body holding the weapons not the actual weapon. Controlling the shoulder, elbow, wrist make for a lot less damage. Sides...the bones in your hand are not made of steel and will break with the force of a weapon coming down for the strike. We were taught to go for the core of the person...you might get hit or cut on the way in but they get one chance.


 
One and Done! Right on!


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## KenpoBruce2006 (Apr 24, 2006)

Same here.  I teach to control the hand holding the weapon.  Not the best idea to grab the knife (since the blade is what is exposed.)  Also, anything is a weapon.  I have students identify anything they could use as a weapon,  i.e., a chair, a lamp, a rolled up magazine, another attacker, a window.  Shuai Chiao practitioners are fond of saying "nothing hits harder than gravity combined with an unforgiving surface."


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## Hand Sword (Apr 25, 2006)

I hear that! Concrete and human flesh and bones  don't mix well at all.


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## thescottishdude (Apr 25, 2006)

I think that your instructor should teach you the martial arts - fighting with fists and indiviual weapons.

It is then up to you to do the following in the fight:- 
1) Command the battlefield. You choose the position you're fighting in and rearrange it to suit yourself (use a lamp post to break off contcat with your attacker or rearrange desks in a work place attack to suit your defense.) 

2) Use the environment provided for weapons if required. Some places will have different weapons than others.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2006)

Yes! Unless you pack (gun or knife) the enviroment has to be your best friend. Train yourself, while walking, to pick out things you could use. Eventually you'll get creative and this will help prepare you if it goes down.


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## ManOfVirtues (May 2, 2006)

I have always been taught, from a young age, to pay attention to the aggressor. if he has a weapon, you find a weapon (or just take his). 

Its hard for anyone to stab/shoot/maim you, when they are trying not to bleed to death.


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## Jonathan (May 4, 2006)

When I was with the Marines, we were trained to utilize 'weapons of opportunity'- anything you can grab and swing, poke, smack, smash, or stab your opponent with.

The idea is not necessarily to kill the opponent- just to keep them from killing you.


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## ManOfVirtues (May 4, 2006)

Jonathan said:
			
		

> The idea is not necessarily to kill the opponent- just to keep them from killing you.



I dont think I could of said it better myself


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## ginshun (May 15, 2006)

anything can and should be used as a weapon if the situation calls for it.


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## matt.m (May 27, 2006)

In Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido we learn cane and knife defense techniques.  However, pop always said "If you can use a trash can lid and don't, then it is your fault."


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## jazzmasta25 (Jan 27, 2008)

Yes we are taught to use weapons of opportunity if one presents itself.  However, if a weapon is dropped or forced out of the opponent's hand we never struggle for it, and instead focus on attacking the opponent as the go for the weapon.


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## Ceicei (Jan 27, 2008)

Something sort of related to the subject:
I love watching different TV shows and movies with Sammo Hung, Bruce Lee, and Jackie Chan and see their creativity with their choices of weapons.  Although these men are in choreographed fights, they do give ideas of how different objects and things around them could be used as weapons.  It does give us a broader view of just grabbing at a moment's notice whatever is available and converting these into weapons.

My school did try to incorporate this into a few trainings.  There would be some common stuff spread around the floor, on tables, and chairs.  Whatever object the instructor points out, we explain either verbally or demonstrate, what we can do with it without hesitation or a lot of thought.  The most common, of course, was to throw, but he wanted us to think "outside the box" of other things that could be done besides just throwing.

There was a tournament I watched a few years ago with a black belt demonstrating in a kata how a regular line phone (yeah, one of these wired telephones) could be used as a weapon in various ways.  Very intriguing but probably not quite as useful nowadays considering wired phones are slowly disappearing.

- Ceicei


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## Zeal (Mar 20, 2008)

While anything and everything can clearly become a weapon, the most important part of martial arts is not to fight. That is why we train. The greatest of martial artists are able to, most of the time, discourage aggresors from combat. And to answer your question more directly, seeking opportunity is very important when in a dangerous opportunity. It all depends on the circumstance.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 22, 2008)

Zeal said:


> ...the most important part of martial arts is not to fight. That is why we train. The greatest of martial artists are able to, most of the time, discourage aggresors from combat.


 
I disagree...The reason we train is so we CAN fight.  Now obviously our training _should_ include topics such as awareness, verbal deescalation, etc. to help us avoid or prevent confrontations.  However, you don't really have to study martial-arts to learn those things.
If you're going to train, the main focus should be on those times when we couldn't avoid the fight.  At that point, our goal should be to neutralize the threat in the most efficient and effective manner possible.

regarding the original question, yes I train and teach people to use improvised weapons/weapons of opportunity.  However, I feel that it's better to carry my own rather than hoping that there will be something laying around.


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## tellner (Mar 22, 2008)

Zeal said:


> the most important part of martial arts is not to fight. That is why we train. The greatest of martial artists are able to, most of the time, discourage aggresors from combat. And to answer your question more directly, seeking opportunity is very important when in a dangerous opportunity. It all depends on the circumstance.


 
That is a very common idea. While it may not be completely divorced from reality it has pawned the wedding ring, moved out and is dating other ontological precepts. 

If you want to get etymological the "martial" arts are the arts of Mars, deity of war and conflict. That means fighting.

Martial arts from the agonistic like Boxing or Olympic TKD to the comprehensive military systems are entirely about being able to prevail in a fight of one sort or another. It might be in the sporting arena. It might be on a battlefield. It's still a fight, and the whole point is to come out the other side with what you want and keeping the opponent(s) from taking a resource of some sort from you. 

Most traditions have some sort of code of conduct if only to protect themselves from the neighbors and society at large or to maintain military discipline. Part of it is usually along the lines of "Don't do things which are likely to bring on hordes of peasants with pitchforks and torches" or "Dont' get in fights unless there's a good reason" where "good reason" could be anything from "Only to defend the life of the Emperor" or "Someone has thrown five bucks down on the table".

You don't have to dress up in funny clothes, wave swords around and learn bits and pieces of a foreign language to learn how not to fight. It's really simple. You just don't fight. 

The reason that The Great Masters tend not to have to fight is that they're good at it. They can usually see it coming a mile away or give off a vibe that says "If I bothered to think about it at all I wouldn't consider you a threat. Now bugger off or I will hurt you very badly" without swaggering. Their ability to deter is based on the perception on the part of the intended audience that they really are that dangerous.

This is the sort of thing that you might be able to fake. But if you do you are in serious danger of letting your mouth write a check that your butt can't cash. Someone might not believe the bluff or might decide that the threat you pose isn't as great as what he wants from you. If that's the case you're screwed.

Bob Orlando said it very nicely "A warrior may choose pacifism. Others are condemned to it."


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