# Why HKD?



## Kong Soo Do (Oct 28, 2012)

Why did you choose HKD as your martial art? What did/do you expect out of the art? What are your goals in the art? Has it met your expectations and/or would you change anything about the art if you could?​


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## WMKS Shogun (Oct 31, 2012)

I wanted something to compliment my Tae Kwon Do and a way to be able to include grappling in our curriculum with associated rank (because some people care about that). I learned to grapple first (through 12 years of wrestling), then moved to a year or so of Karate and Japanese Jujutsu before I finally settled on Tae Kwon Do. I first encountered Hapkido years ago through a friend and liked how well it blended with what I already knew while adding a lot of joint locks, holds, throws, and new ideas on blocks and evasions, as well as different ways of looking at kicks. Unfortunately, I did not have time to study both Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido at that time, but now have been able to remedy that. While I have only been a student of Hapkido for a few months, I an thoroughly enjoying what I am learning and look forward to learning more, both for my sake as well as that of my students'.


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## Instructor (Oct 31, 2012)

I was impressed with Hapkido's ability to nullify the strength of an attacker and turn his own body against him.  I also love how multifaceted Hapkido is, it's one of the few arts that has punching, kicking, and grappling in more or less equal parts.

It's an art that seems to be very unpredictable, often utilizing counter intuitive motion.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 1, 2012)

When I got into Hapkido I was already a black belt in Taekwondo. Even though my Taekwondo had some great self-defense techniques I felt Hapkido had so much more to offer in that area. I really like how the art is able to flow from one technique to the next. It complements most other arts or systems. 

I visit quite a few martial arts studio's and using Hapkido I am able to keep up with them in their art with their rules. Hapkido, has a little bit of everything built in it. I don't feel it is a mixed martial art as much as it is a complete art. I have studied several arts and I can find Hapki techniques in each. In that, Hapkido has met my expectations. 

My goal in the art is to continue to master Hapkido. To push hard and spread it to others. I think Hapkido has a bad rap with other systems of martial arts because sometimes we really do not support each other. I see Hapkido masters calling each other out on things that really should not be called out. By the way, I'm just making an observation and not calling anyone out. 

The one thing I would like to see changed, is Hapkido kwans work together instead of against each other to let other systems know that Hapkido is one of the best street effective systems there is. 

Just my two cents. Thanks for your time.


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## Instructor (Nov 1, 2012)

And a valuable 2 cents they were!


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## iron_ox (Nov 1, 2012)

Hello,

I tried Hapkido, or what I was told to don't as Hapkido, as well as a few other arts to get the best fit. I think the dynamic instructor got me hooked originaly, then meeting Grandmaster Fred Adams kept me on board. He always encouraged me to get as close to the founder of the art as I could, and I spent years doing just that. 
I had the good fortune to be introduced to Grandmaster Lim Hyun Soo, one of Choi Dojunim's 4 ninth degree black belts, and I have not looked back since.  
Hapkido needs a recognized hierarchy. There are all together too many medium and low ranking practitioners passings themselves off as masters, and this is surely damaging the art. 
People are far more interested in trying to protect a domain rather than accepting they need to have more training under the right authority or that they got duped and are not doing Hapkido at all. I realize this is difficult, but if the art is going to survive, it is needed. 
I am not saying there are not good varients out there that are good martial arts, but they need to be recognized as varients, or just something else, and not Hapkido. 

As far as "calling out" other schools, if they don't Hapkido and claim to they need calling out.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you, for proving my point.


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## iron_ox (Nov 1, 2012)

How so?


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## Haakon (Nov 1, 2012)

I started doing TKD to first dan, it was fun I really liked it but wanted more grappling like the wrestling I did in high school. After TKD I did Aikido for a couple of years, it was Ok but I missed the punching and kicking and Aikido, at least where I trained, was to much peace and harmony and "grab my wrist". So I looked in to other styles, HKD looked like a good mix of punching, kicking, throwing, forms and weapons so I started HKD and have been doing it ever since.

I like the potential the art has for practical real world application. All of the pieces are there, the principals behind the techniques seem sound, add in some non-compliant practice against resisting partners with at least some what real world attacks and it should be about as good as any other art for practical defense, and it's a heck of a lot of fun to practice.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 2, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> I think Hapkido has a bad rap with other systems of martial arts because sometimes we really do not support each other. I see Hapkido masters calling each other out on things that really should not be called out. By the way, I'm just making an observation and not calling anyone out.
> 
> The one thing I would like to see changed, is Hapkido kwans work together instead of against each other to let other systems know that Hapkido is one of the best street effective systems there is.








iron_ox said:


> There are all together too many medium and low ranking practitioners passings themselves off as masters, and this is surely damaging the art.
> People are far more interested in trying to protect a domain rather than accepting they need to have more training under the right authority or that they got duped and are not doing Hapkido at all. I realize this is difficult, but if the art is going to survive, it is needed.
> I am not saying there are not good varients out there that are good martial arts, but they need to be recognized as varients, or just something else, and not Hapkido.
> 
> As far as "calling out" other schools, if they don't Hapkido and claim to they need calling out.


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## Doomx2001 (Nov 2, 2012)

For me, I got into Hapkido out of necessity. The Bujinkan school I was training at had moved away after about 10 years or so of training (and they have since moved back two years later.) I wanted at first, to find a Aikido school as they do joint locks and it wouldn't be that big of a transition from Bujinkan to Aikido. Also, by nature, my 'spirit' has been more 'soft'. And whenever I did my Bujinkan techniques, I looked like someone doing some internal style of Kung Fu. So I figured Aikido would be a natural fit, until I could train again in Bujinkan in which at some point I would continue training in both schools. 

It didn't work out like that. And I'm glad it did. 

I ended up looking into Hapkido schools, of which I had limited knowledge. I was always turned off by the acrobatic kicks. I remember watching Bong Soo Han dvds, and in pure wonder, watching him do 'magic' on peoples wrist with these little joint locks, bringing his opponent to their knees. My reaction was, 'I don't know about that', being skeptical. It wasn't until years later after watching that DvD did I find out that there is definately some merit too it. 

I found a Hapkido school 50 miles from where I live. And I thought, "Can I really drive that far, everyweek, back and forth?". I was hungry, hungry to train. So I made the drive to the school. I observed at first. The whole time I wanted so bad to jump in, I'm not much on spectating. If I have to watching someone else have fun, I'd rather go home, LOL! In the middle of class, I worked up the nerve to ask If I could train, which I did, after signing a waiver. 

I found that I enjoyed learning those acrobatic/high/unrealistic kicks as they limbered up the lower half of my body, making my legs more responsive to move. I still don't like acrobatic kicks for practical purposes as that would get you killed on the street, but for health reasons, I do enjoy them. 

Later, in that class, I was introduced to Hapkido techniques. A knifehand armbar. Even though in my mind, I questioned the practicallity of learning defense against a wrist grab. I wasn't a woman who is going to be grabbed by a abusive boyfriend, nor was I the kind of man to stand there and let someone grab me that way. But, I've learned in my time of training in martial arts, sometimes there is a reason for everything, and you have to give things the benefit of the doubt, and give it a try. 
I've since come to appreciate wrist grabs for a few reasons after some research:

1. They were probably used by Samurai and their other Asian counterparts as weapon retention. As all Japanese are right handed, they draw with their right hand toward their left side where the sword is at, this hand in turn, would be grabbed by the opponent to keep him from drawing his sword. Wrist grabs is good training for law enforcement as they have to get close to people they may not percieve as a threat, and then out of nowhere, they are attacked as the assailant tries to grab the officers gun. 

2. Wrist grabs is good training for women as they are more likely to be grabbed by a abusive boyfriend, family member, or rapist. 

3. I have seen some guys get pissed, grab the other guy to pull him in to punch him with his free hand so he won't have time to back up. It does happen, but not often. 

4. Wrist grabs is a 'baby step' way of introducing someone to joint locks. Giving the practitioner time to focus on skill rather than just speed. 

5. Defense against Judo.

Needless to say further, I am now a fan of Wrist grabs.  HAHAHA! Its funny. But true. 
But it took time for me to realize all that. That every single technique in a series ( technique sets such as Son Mok Soo, Eue Bok Soo, Ju Mok Kibon Sool...etc) are actually a stepping stone to the next, allowing me to build quick dependable skill. Its hard to see that in beginning which is why I think so many people drop out of Hapkido these days. 

On to the other questions. What I hope to get out of Hapkido is what I have been getting out of Hapkido. The great thing about Hapkido is that it teaches you how to defend yourself against any grab on you body (wrist, sleeve, middle sleeve, shoulder, collar, label, belt, various grabs from behind...etc), from punches, and from kicks, as well as weapon defense. A better name for Hapkido, perhaps, is the Korean Total Self-defense System, LOL! But that is true, it is, it's all about how serious you take your training. Also, compared to Bujinkan, I have time to 'get a technique down'. In the Bujinkan, every class you learn something new, and it is never the same thing as last class. I love the fact that you never get bored with Bujinkan, and that it helps you to work 'flow'/reaction more, but with Hapkido, in most schools you work on series of techniques before moving on. The Bujinkan way is different, and I love, but I also love the Hapkido way of teaching. So I get the best of both worlds. 

What I would like to change about Hapkido, regardless of Hapkido style, is the mentaility. People have watered down the art for the sake of student rentention. When you water down Hapkido, all you have then is Japanese Aikido with flashy kicks. Hapkido, is *'SUPPOSED TO HURT'*! I have a saying, 'If it don't hurt, then it an't Hapkido'. Pain compliance is part of what makes joint locks work, other than good footwork, and unbalancing your opponent. 
But, back to 'mentality', what I mean is this: 
In ANY Brazilian Jujutsu school, a white belt in Brazilian Jujutsu can mop the ground with people who Karate, Kung Fu, Aikido, and even Hapkido. Why? Because they train with the mentality of using this in the street or in the 'cage'. They think about things like how to avoid being taken down, how to take down, how to avoid being pounded on the head...etc.
Most martial arts including most Hapkido styles are more interested in looking 'pretty', so called tradition, and retaining sensitive students than offering true Mudo. Real Traditional martial arts is about, well, basically killing or maiming your opponent before he gets the chance to do the same. I see Brazilian Jujutsu schools work an armbar until it almost reaches the breaking point before someone taps, and in some Hapkido schools people tap as soon as they are grabbed. Ridiculas.

So I would want to change the mentality and the explantions behind techniques. When I train in Hapkido, I train to defend myself, and if something don't feel effective, I ask why? Becasue I don't want to get my butt kicked and face smashed on the ground because I've been too busy learning Ballet instead of true traditional martial art. That is what I would change. And if we could do that, Hapkido would be heading more in the right direction, instead of becoming a product of McDojo's. 

One of the other questions that Kong Soo Do had was what were my expectations. I've learned not to have any. That way you will accept a martial art for what it is, instead of what it is not. And with that train of thought, I can walk into any dojo or school, and get something out of it. I've learned to appreciate all martial arts because of this 'thinking'. 

Good questions. 

 - Brian


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 2, 2012)

Doomx2001 said:


> What I would like to change about Hapkido, regardless of Hapkido style, is the mentaility. People have watered down the art for the sake of student rentention. When you water down Hapkido, all you have then is Japanese Aikido with flashy kicks. Hapkido, is *'SUPPOSED TO HURT'*! I have a saying, 'If it don't hurt, then it an't Hapkido'. Pain compliance is part of what makes joint locks work, other than good footwork, and unbalancing your opponent.
> But, back to 'mentality', what I mean is this:
> In ANY Brazilian Jujutsu school, a white belt in Brazilian Jujutsu can mop the ground with people who Karate, Kung Fu, Aikido, and even Hapkido. Why? Because they train with the mentality of using this in the street or in the 'cage'. They think about things like how to avoid being taken down, how to take down, how to avoid being pounded on the head...etc.
> Most martial arts including most Hapkido styles are more interested in looking 'pretty', so called tradition, and retaining sensitive students than offering true Mudo. Real Traditional martial arts is about, well, basically killing or maiming your opponent before he gets the chance to do the same. I see Brazilian Jujutsu schools work an armbar until it almost reaches the breaking point before someone taps, and in some Hapkido schools people tap as soon as they are grabbed. Ridiculas.
> ...



Doomx2001,

Great Post!  I have already put into effect real live training at my Dojang. I believe it is the true way to teach what could one day save a life. 

Keep up the good work.


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## iron_ox (Nov 2, 2012)

So Shelby, 

What do you we do with 1st degree black belts Dan issueing 9th dan certificates?  Do we just presume that type of behavior is OK?  Do you have much experience with a variety of so called Hapkido "styles"?  If so, do really think that even those of dubious origin be given credence?
Should we all just smile and pretend behavior like that mentioned above doesn't matter?  Your thoughts.


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## Instructor (Nov 2, 2012)

Whatever differences the various orgs might have with one another surely the best way to resolve them is with communication and cooperation.


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## iron_ox (Nov 2, 2012)

Instructor said:


> Whatever differences the various orgs might have with one another surely the best way to resolve them is with communication and cooperation.


How does one cooperate with those that are simply not being honest at all?  That have taken Hapkido from its Founder, Choi Dojunim, and turned it into a mish-mash of "styles"?


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## Instructor (Nov 2, 2012)

People will often dissapoint you in life, sad but true.  The art however is sound.  In any art you will have a movement towards the source wanting to maintain purity and a movement from the source wanting to innovate.

Sad to say you will also have copycats that are just trying to line their pockets.  The best thing to do is to teach and study your art and try to be above board yourself.  Lead by example and let the chips fall where they may.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 2, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> So Shelby,
> 
> What do you we do with 1st degree black belts Dan issueing 9th dan certificates?  Do we just presume that type of behavior is OK?  Do you have much experience with a variety of so called Hapkido "styles"?  If so, do really think that even those of dubious origin be given credence?
> Should we all just smile and pretend behavior like that mentioned above doesn't matter?  Your thoughts.



I never heard of a 1st Dan issuing 9th Dans. I am surethings like that have happened. I have heard of Korean Masters coming to theUSA and inflating their ranks.  I pick onthe Koreans because that is what I have experience with.  I never said this was ok for people to issueranks that they do not have.  I neverimplied this was ok either.  At least Ido not think I implied that I thought it was ok. If I did imply it was ok toinflate your rank, I am denouncing it now.
I personally dont look at rank as how good someone is.  I look at rank as a process that one person (anygiven master) gives another person (any given student) to make them feel goodabout themselves.  In psychology, we callthat a token economy.
As my good Friend Brian says: Dan Ranking without meritor authority is bad and unethical.  Butsaying you are preparing someone for street-defense and simply teaching them techniquesthat have been passed down as a tradition and not live training or adapting to themodern world, is much worse.
Have I dabbled in other systems to make my MuSool Hapkidobetter? You bet you!  Why? Well, first inthe spirit of Grandmaster Choi, I want to make sure my Hapkido keeps up withthe fighting styles of today.  
I ask you, have you ever thrown an outer wristthrow?  Have you ever thrown an outerwrist throw sparring? Do you spar?  Haveyou ever thrown it in a combative situation? I HAVE.  I have thrown it in sparring in Hapkido,rolling at a Jiujutsu school and fighting at a Krav Maga school.  On top of that, I threw it on someone while Iwas working a personal security detail with the country band Montgomery Gentry.  I know my outer wrist throw works because Iventure outside of my Hapkido bubble.  Ialso know my standing straight arm bar works, my goose neck wrist lock, my hipthrow or my hammer lock because I use it with partners that are not from my art.  Furthermore I have students go to otherprograms and use MuSool Hapkido so they know it works for them.  I also have students that use MuSool Hapkido aspolice officers and correction officers. 
I feel I am a traditionalist Hapkidoin.  I am not the same traditional Hapkido of JungKi Hapkido or Sin Moo Hapkido, or Dynamic Hapkido or Combat Hapkido or anyother traditional Korean or American Hapkido system.  They all come from different lines of Kwansand I respect them but I do not always agree with what I see with the videos theyput out or the instruction they give.  Ido not bad mouth them openly. I will say something if I see a video of a Hapkidoguy throw someone without touching them because that truly gives us a bad name.
I do have some experience with other Hapkido Kwansbesides my own.  Some are better thanothers. If I am at one of their schools or if someone from another kwan is atMuSool Academy, I give my opinion on what I think is best in a street defensivesituation. If they wish to listen, they learn. If they do not listen, calling them out over the World Wide Web is notgoing to change them.  I have also pickedup things that I thought was useful and added it to MuSool Hapkido.  
We are not the HAPKIDO Police.  All I can do is teach what I believe is thebest self-defense system in the world.  Igo to other martial arts and share with them what I feel is great Hapkido.  A lot of systems think we are a joke and thatHapkido Sucks.  I try to change theirmind and I do pretty good job at convincing them that not all Hapkido is thesame.
I am not an Orthodox Program.  I do not teach the way Grandmaster Choitaught and never claimed too.  I probablydid not learn how the first generation students of Grandmaster Choilearned.  I do believe fighting styleshave changed from the late 1940s to today. I think some of the authentic Hapkido that worked in the 1950s and 60swont work for todays fighting styles.  Fightingsystems and styles changed in the 1970s and again in the 1990s.  I think if your Hapkido does not change withit, then you may be teaching an authentic martial art that may not work when alife is on the line.  
Look at the traditional martial sports of Judo andTaekwondo.  Both of those systems havechanged over the years.  The way youwould defend against those arts in the 1960s are different than the way youwould defense against them today.  
Just my two cents worth.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 5, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Why did you choose HKD as your martial art? What did/do you expect out of the art? What are your goals in the art? Has it met your expectations and/or would you change anything about the art if you could?​



I studied TKD briefly in the mid-60s.  I liked what I was taught, but was unable to continue.  In the mid-70s, while in Korea, I saw it demonstrated along with many other MA on a TV program, and frankly, thought it was largely bogus at first.  The third time I was in Korea, I discovered it at the on-post gym.  By then I had learned that it was a for-real MA and was very interested in an art that taught what it did.  I was delighted and began immediately.  I have never looked back.

What I expect out of the art is what I was taught.  It includes how to protect and subdue (primarily defensivly, but offensively as well), and how to keep myself in shape.  It includes use of gi (ki, chi, or whatever term you prefer), but doesn't include any mysticism about it.

It has met my expectations and more.

I am a 2nd Dan, with training in all the techniques to 3rd dan, but haven't tested that and probably never will.  I don't think I know enough to have any standing to suggest changes, at least in the Hapkido I learned, as I learned it.  It is a very good art, and teaches defenses against all types of attacks.  Its philosophy doesn't seek combat, but doesn't shy from it when defense is needed, nor worry about damage to an opponent when used.

I think the explanation of why to start with wrist grabs above is good, and needed.  I so often hear put downs for the "hey, grab my wrist," when it is justifiable as defense against swordsmen, starting with basics, and just heartfelt exuberance at good grappling.  It is a good thing to like and believe in the MA you are studying, but if you can only justify its existence by putting down other MA, that is sad, and doesn't show good thinking.

My two cents.


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## iron_ox (Nov 5, 2012)

Instructor said:


> People will often dissapoint you in life, sad but true.  The art however is sound.  In any art you will have a movement towards the source wanting to maintain purity and a movement from the source wanting to innovate.



I think the art is sound, but the reality is that Hapkido is often seen very poorly through the eyes of other arts with no central structure, and far too much variance on history, technique and even purpose.



Instructor said:


> Sad to say you will also have copycats that are just trying to line their pockets.  The best thing to do is to teach and study your art and try to be above board yourself.  Lead by example and let the chips fall where they may.



I think this is a bit of a cop out.  Do you not think that it is of great importance to be able to call out people that openly damage the art?  Without naming anyone, look at the actions of a Florida man that all but destroyed a large organization in 2002.


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## iron_ox (Nov 5, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> I never heard of a 1st Dan issuing 9th Dans. I am surethings like that have happened. I have heard of Korean Masters coming to theUSA and inflating their ranks.  I pick onthe Korean&#8217;s because that is what I have experience with.  I never said this was ok for people to issueranks that they do not have.  I neverimplied this was ok either.  At least Ido not think I implied that I thought it was ok. If I did imply it was ok toinflate your rank, I am denouncing it now.



I don't want to engage in pointing out which organization is headed by a first dan, and issuing 9th dans...its easy to find out, if you are interested, I can PM you.  And no, you never implied that is was OK, but it is prolific in Hapkido...and something that absolutely undermines the art.



Dwi Chugi said:


> I personally don&#8217;t look at rank as how good someone is.  I look at rank as a process that one person (anygiven master) gives another person (any given student) to make them feel goodabout themselves.  In psychology, we callthat a token economy.



Rank in an art that issues should give someone an idea of hierarchy - the fact that Hapkido rank is issued by many who do not have it is a problem, and something that should be openly addressed.  



Dwi Chugi said:


> As my good Friend Brian says: Dan Ranking without merit or authority is bad and unethical.  But saying you are preparing someone for street-defense and simply teaching them techniques that have been passed down as a tradition and not live training or adapting to the modern world, is much worse.



Choi Dojunim modified his art right from the beginning, unfortunately many never bothered to learn what he was actually teaching.  All of Hapkido is "live training" (in my opinion a silly buzz word to try and make a sporting art closer to a self defense art) - but again, there is a huge gap in knowledge when people think that wrist grabs, as an example, are not part of a larger picture that teach motion and energy for better defensive fighting.



Dwi Chugi said:


> Have I dabbled in other systems to make my MuSool Hapkido better? You bet you!  Why? Well, first in the spirit of Grandmaster Choi, I want to make sure my Hapkido keeps up with the fighting styles of today.



Choi Dojunim died in 1986, he taught actively until 1984 - his art was far more "current" than you might imagine.



Dwi Chugi said:


> I ask you, have you ever thrown an outer wrist throw?  Have you ever thrown an outer wrist throw sparring? Do you spar?  Have you ever thrown it in a combative situation? I HAVE.  I have thrown it in sparring in Hapkido,rolling at a Jiujitsu school and fighting at a Krav Maga school.  On top of that, I threw it on someone while I was working a personal security detail with the country band Montgomery Gentry.  I know my outer wrist throw works because I venture outside of my Hapkido bubble.  I also know my standing straight arm bar works, my goose neck wrist lock, my hip throw or my hammer lock because I use it with partners that are not from my art.  Furthermore I have students go to other programs and use MuSool Hapkido so they know it works for them.  I also have students that use MuSool Hapkido as police officers and correction officers.




Yes, I have had a few run ins over the years.  I have taught and trained for more than 30 years, on four continents, I have owned a security company (and got training from a raft of security professionals - not just Hapkido training), and done security work in the US and Europe.  I am ranked in several styles, and trained at dozens of non-Hapkido schools.  Did I answer your question?



Dwi Chugi said:


> I feel I am a traditionalist Hapkidoin.  I am not the same traditional Hapkido of JungKi Hapkido or Sin Moo Hapkido, or Dynamic Hapkido or Combat Hapkido or any other traditional Korean or American Hapkido system.  They all come from different lines of Kwans and I respect them but I do not always agree with what I see with the videos they put out or the instruction they give.  I do not bad mouth them openly. I will say something if I see a video of a Hapkido guy throw someone without touching them because that truly gives us a bad name.



As a point of information, I am a member of the Jungki Kwan, I teach Hapkido, not "Jungki Hapkido"...  But I agree that there is plenty of video out there that also makes me scratch my head.



Dwi Chugi said:


> I do have some experience with other Hapkido Kwans besides my own.  Some are better than others. If I am at one of their schools or if someone from another kwan is at MuSool Academy, I give my opinion on what I think is best in a street defensive situation. If they wish to listen, they learn. If they do not listen, calling them out over the World Wide Web is not going to change them.  I have also picked up things that I thought was useful and added it to MuSool Hapkido.



Hopefully you would not "call out" anyone that did not deserve it - but if they have no true lineage in that art, hopefully you would feel the need to warn others.



Dwi Chugi said:


> We are not the HAPKIDO Police.  All I can do is teach what I believe is the best self-defense system in the world.  I go to other martial arts and share with them what I feel is great Hapkido.  A lot of systems think we are a joke and that Hapkido Sucks.  I try to change their mind and I do pretty good job at convincing them that not all Hapkido is the same.



If you don't feel the need to be a watchdog for the art, so be it, that is not a requirement.  Do you find it odd what you make in the last part of your statement?  If its called Hapkido, it should....in reality...all be what similar if not the same?



Dwi Chugi said:


> I am not an Orthodox Program.  I do not teach the way Grandmaster Choi taught and never claimed too.  I probably did not learn how the first generation students of Grandmaster Choi learned.  I do believe fighting style shave changed from the late 1940&#8217;s to today. I think some of the authentic Hapkido that worked in the 1950&#8217;s and 60&#8217;swon&#8217;t work for today&#8217;s fighting styles.  Fighting systems and styles changed in the 1970&#8217;s and again in the 1990&#8217;s.  I think if your Hapkido does not change with it, then you may be teaching an authentic martial art that may not work when a life is on the line.



I agree that your idea is correct, but the art of Choi Dojunim changed and progressed throughout his lifetime.  And I say this to everyone - if they have never actually seen Choi Dojunim's art, it is odd they think it needs modifying or correcting.



Dwi Chugi said:


> Look at the traditional martial sports of Judo and Taekwondo.  Both of those systems have changed over the years.  The way you would defend against those arts in the 1960&#8217;s are different than the way you would defense against them today.



I don't know much about Judo, but next time you are in Scotland, go and meet Taekwondo IX Dan Rhee, Ki Ha.  He might change your mind about TKD being for sport at all...not really his thing, and amazing exponent. 

Great post, Mr. Creech, but I believe that anyone that is involved in Hapkido should care about how the art is portrayed based on how other organizations rank and include their lineage.  Not a requirement, and teaching well is the most important thing, and teaching great self-defense really matters even more than that, but there is no time to bury our heads in the sand and act like anyone can say whatever they want about this art without being able to back it up.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 7, 2012)

Kevin, the hard part is nailing them and having it stick.  We've both seen, just this year, someone claiming a 9th Dan in Hapkido and lineage to a certain individual...but no matter how many times details were asked for, none were forthcoming.  Oddly enough this same person had no qualms about asking others for detailed information about themselves.  As for others we all know about that were basically caught red-handed...how did it really affect them?  I still see some of these individuals from time to time plying their wares in the martial art world.  And of course the big problem is schools like the TKD school I brought up earlier this year that was bringing in a Korean Hapkido GM that would test you for, and grant Hapkido rank after just ONE weekend of training!  To clarify (I still have the flyer), you did not have to have any previous experience in Hapkido.  You only needed a BB in Hapkido and attend the weekend seminar (and of course pay a hefty seminar AND testing fee AND the check needed to clear).  And to top it off, the Dan rank didn't necessarily start at the first Dan.  If you were say a 5th Dan in TKD they might advance your one-weekend Hapkido Dan to perhaps 3rd or 4th.  I reported on this and of course some of the usual suspects actually came out and tried to defend this as a valid way to earn a Hapkido BB!  I think the party line was that it was none of our business what a Korean Hapkido GM did at a Korean TKD GM's school.  We shouldn't questions such things.

Point is that you can point out these things all day long.  Just be prepared to see a few rush to the defense of these types of practices.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 7, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> To clarify (I still have the flyer), you did not have to have any previous experience in Hapkido.  You only needed a BB in *Hapkido* and attend the weekend seminar (and of course pay a hefty seminar AND testing fee AND the check needed to clear).



The part above in bold should have read 'Taekwondo' and not Hapkido.  Typo on my part.  The only requirement was a BB in TKD to get a BB in HKD.


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## Instructor (Nov 7, 2012)

In the old days they would have handled this with an old fashioned @$$ kicking.  Nowadays not so much.


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## Instructor (Nov 7, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> I think the art is sound, but the reality is that Hapkido is often seen very poorly through the eyes of other arts with no central structure, and far too much variance on history, technique and even purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is a bit of a cop out.  Do you not think that it is of great importance to be able to call out people that openly damage the art?  Without naming anyone, look at the actions of a Florida man that all but destroyed a large organization in 2002.



What is your solution?


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 7, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> I don't want to engage in pointing out which organization is headed by a first dan, and issuing 9th dans...its easy to find out, if you are interested, I can PM you.  And no, you never implied that is was OK, but it is prolific in Hapkido...and something that absolutely undermines the art.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello all and Master Sogor, I am not really sure how to usequotes on several issues so I cut your response and bolded it and will answerin regular red text. I hope this is ok.  Also,I am sorry my words were bunched up.  Icut and pasted it from word and I guess it did not read the code correctly.
*I don't want toengage in pointing out which organization is headed by a first dan, and issuing9th dans...its easy to find out, if you are interested, I can PM you. And no,you never implied that is was OK, but it is prolific in Hapkido...and somethingthat absolutely undermines the art.

*I understand this may go on.  LikeI said I know of Korean&#8217;s that left Korea as a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] or 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]Dan Black Belt in Taekwondo and landed in the United States as a 6[SUP]th[/SUP]or 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Dan.  So I take you atyour word that 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Dan&#8217;s are starting their own Associations and issuingrank they have no business issuing. *

Rank in an art that issues should give someone an idea of hierarchy - the factthat Hapkido rank is issued by many who do not have it is a problem, andsomething that should be openly addressed. 

*I agree it should, but it does not. I hold a medium rank black belt&#8217;s in both Taekwondo and Hapkido undertwo different masters.  Every black beltI have earned means the world to me.  Butin the scheme of things, what does it represent except the power we giveit.  I wear a white belt when I visit theJiujutsu.  As soon as someone grabs me orI lock up with them they ask me what belt and what art am I in.    I tell them I am a black belt in Hapkido, andthey always give me a snicker.  Then, Ithrow them and they start respecting my skills, not the clothe around mywaist.  
In my 11 years owning my Dojang, I have personally only issuedfive black belts in Hapkido and all low black belts.  I understand I do not have the authority toissue any belt higher than mine, nor do I wish too.  *

Choi Dojunim modified his art right from the beginning, unfortunately manynever bothered to learn what he was actually teaching. All of Hapkido is"live training" (in my opinion a silly buzz word to try and make asporting art closer to a self defense art) - but again, there is a huge gap inknowledge when people think that wrist grabs, as an example, are not part of alarger picture that teach motion and energy for better defensive fighting.

*Live training may be a buzz word, but I see it as the truth thetechnique.  I think sometimes we do nottrain as realistic as possible.  I did anexperiment in class last week where I asked one of my higher belts to punch mein the chest so I could show a throw.  Hethrew the punch and I did not move.  He stoppedabout an inch from my chest.  I told himto hit me and he re-threw the punch but to hit me.  He did it again and barely tapped me.  I told him to hit me with a punch in the chestand he did, hard that time.  I had himhit me like six or seven times and I stopped and asked the class what my jobwas.  They all gave their typical answersof side stepping, blocking and giving way to absorb the attack. My reply was, &#8220;Myjob is to get punched without doing anything&#8221;. I then had them punch each other for about five minutes.
I then told them I was going to teach them the throw offthe punch.  I told my attacker to punchme in the chest and he did. I did not block or move.  I had him do it two more times before I actuallythrew the counter.  I then had thestudents practice the same way.  The attackerwould punch several times and then the defender would do the counter only afterthey were ready to not get hit.  Iconsider that as live as it gets.  I hopeI explained that so it is understandable. 
Did I learn wrist grabs? Yes I did.  Do I teach them? I have before to teach themotion and energy flow.  I had a Jiujitsustudent do a cross grab on me to pull my back to him so he could rear naked chokeme.  The cross grab defense can in quitehandy.  I think they have their place inour art.*

Choi Dojunim died in 1986, he taught actively until 1984 - his art was far more"current" than you might imagine.*
I can agree with you there.  Master Park has very fond stories of Dojunim.He said his techniques were very strong and could cause much pain.   I wishI was around too meet him and feel his techniques. I can only hear stories andfeel Master Parks techniques, so I have to settle for that. 
I also can say that in the 1990&#8217;s BJJ came to be mainstream and in late 1990&#8217;s early 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century boxing, wrestling andmuay thai was added to create a more well rounded MMA type of fighting. 
I guess Jiujitsu scared me so that is why I visit thatschool.  I really trust my Hapkido when Iam on my feet.  No one can really get meoff my feet.  So I am confident that myMaster&#8217;s have taught me well. *

Yes, I have had a few run ins over the years. I have taught and trained formore than 30 years, on four continents, I have owned a security company (andgot training from a raft of security professionals - not just Hapkidotraining), and done security work in the US and Europe. I am ranked in severalstyles, and trained at dozens of non-Hapkido schools. Did I answer yourquestion?

*
Yes.  If it cameout that I was doubting your skills, that was not my intention.  I believe we have similar back grounds.  I have only been in the Martial Arts since1985 and I did not start Hapkido until almost 1989.  I am a little behind you in time, but Iunderstand dedicating yourself into a way of life.*


As a point of information, I am a member of the Jungki Kwan, I teach Hapkido,not "Jungki Hapkido"... But I agree that there is plenty of video outthere that also makes me scratch my head.*
My bad.  I thoughtJungki Kwan was the name of your school. *

Hopefully you would not "call out" anyone that did not deserve it -but if they have no true lineage in that art, hopefully you would feel the needto warn others.

*I try not to call out anyone publicly. I try to praise publicly.  If Ihave issue with someone I make that a private matter.  That has been my point.  Do I think there is bad so called Hapkido?YES!  Me calling a horses *** a horsesass on the World Wide Web makes the other arts that don&#8217;t respect us in the firstplace not respect us at all.  I don&#8217;t meannot openly question them, I think questions are good and perhaps that is a wayof letting people know that we do not agree with what is going on withoutcoming right out and denouncing it.  *

If you don't feel the need to be a watchdog for the art, so be it, that is nota requirement. Do you find it odd what you make in the last part of yourstatement? If its called Hapkido, it should....in reality...all be what similarif not the same?

*
I have to disagree that all hapkido is the same.  Sin Moo Hapkido looks different than JungkiHapkido.  Combat Hapkido is a differentschool all together.  So, I think thereare schools out there that look more like what Choi instructed.  I think some look a little different. I thinkthere are schools that are a lot different.  My Hapkido looks like what Master Berry andPark instructed but I also have some different variations because of my height difference.   I alsolike to use indirect counters more than my masters sometimes.*

I agree that your idea is correct, but the art of Choi Dojunim changed andprogressed throughout his lifetime. And I say this to everyone - if they havenever actually seen Choi Dojunim's art, it is odd they think it needs modifyingor correcting.*
As I said above, I think fighting has changed in the 1990&#8217;sand early 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century.  I agree,though, that most Hapkido Kwans are good and are useful.  Prior to 1993 I worried about being kicked orpunched or maybe the high school wrestler trying to get me off my feet.  Today, being shot in on by a wrestler is areal threat and being taken to the ground by a BJJ player is a real threat.  Most of Hapkido works for such a thing but Ihad to modify my mind set.  
Today with the UFC and youtube you get guys that see howit is done and even never training in a formal martial art can learn some ofthe techniques.  *

I don't know much about Judo, but next time you are in Scotland, go and meetTaekwondo IX Dan Rhee, Ki Ha. He might change your mind about TKD being forsport at all...not really his thing, and amazing exponent. *
I know Taekwondo is a real good martial art.  My first master was was very traditional inthe way he instructed it. I do train the kids in the sport aspect of the artbut they also learn the true traditional part as well.  I have several Korean and other Asian familiesenrolled at my Dojang because I teach true non-watered down Mudo.  
I would love to go to Scotland one day and if I ever do Iwould love to meet Master Rhee.  I lovemeeting martial artist with same likes.*

Great post, Mr. Creech, but I believe that anyone that is involved in Hapkidoshould care about how the art is portrayed based on how other organizationsrank and include their lineage. Not a requirement, and teaching well is themost important thing, and teaching great self-defense really matters even morethan that, but there is no time to bury our heads in the sand and act likeanyone can say whatever they want about this art without being able to back itup. *
Thank you for answering my post and making me part of theforum.  I think we have similar ideas onwhat Hapkido should be.  I know I want itto be respected in the martial arts community and I feel that we are sometimesself-defeating.  I have seen negativeposts, after negative posts on this forum and others downing some good martialartist and some not so good martial artist. 
I do have to say, I saw a post where you questioned(respectfully) &#8220;Instructor&#8221; on how he was issuing rank for his online program.  For what it is worth, in my humble opinion, Ithought you handled that very well and I really respected how he answered yourquestions in return.  That, I believe, ishow it should be done and perhaps what I am looking for.
There is no requirement or license to be a martial artsinstructor in the USA.  I personally donot like government involvement in my life but this makes no since to me.  If I was a massage therapist, hair dresser,or a number of other things that require half the skills of a martial artist, Iwould have to be licensed by the State.
We should be teaching people how to fight using deadlyforce if needed.  If people are not teachingthe true way of any martial art, it could get someone really hurt or even killed.  

For what it is worth, that is my two cents.


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Kevin, the hard part is nailing them and having it stick.  We've both seen, just this year, someone claiming a 9th Dan in Hapkido and lineage to a certain individual...but no matter how many times details were asked for, none were forthcoming.  Oddly enough this same person had no qualms about asking others for detailed information about themselves.  As for others we all know about that were basically caught red-handed...how did it really affect them?  I still see some of these individuals from time to time plying their wares in the martial art world.  And of course the big problem is schools like the TKD school I brought up earlier this year that was bringing in a Korean Hapkido GM that would test you for, and grant Hapkido rank after just ONE weekend of training!  To clarify (I still have the flyer), you did not have to have any previous experience in Hapkido.  You only needed a BB in Hapkido and attend the weekend seminar (and of course pay a hefty seminar AND testing fee AND the check needed to clear).  And to top it off, the Dan rank didn't necessarily start at the first Dan.  If you were say a 5th Dan in TKD they might advance your one-weekend Hapkido Dan to perhaps 3rd or 4th.  I reported on this and of course some of the usual suspects actually came out and tried to defend this as a valid way to earn a Hapkido BB!  I think the party line was that it was none of our business what a Korean Hapkido GM did at a Korean TKD GM's school.  We shouldn't questions such things.
> 
> Point is that you can point out these things all day long.  Just be prepared to see a few rush to the defense of these types of practices.



Yes, I remember you commenting on this "program" and the response, but that does not mean we should accept these things as appropriate.  And as you and I both believe, we should question them as much as we can!


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2012)

Instructor said:


> In the old days they would have handled this with an old fashioned @$$ kicking.  Nowadays not so much.



When I lived in the UK, I was present when schools were closed.  It was pretty amazing.


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2012)

Instructor said:


> What is your solution?



This is my opinion, and it will raise some hackles.  

First, we must all accept the origin of the art.  We see nothing like this until Choi Dojunim started teaching, and he was very consistent his entire teaching career.
We must establish a real hierarchy in the art.  Yes, it might really get some people that have exaggerated about their rank annoyed, but it will start to bring some level of uniformity to the art.
There also needs to be some frank discussion about what constitutes Hapkido, and what does not.  That does not mean that some people might not add things they feel are helpful in fighting, but it is important that students understand what they are learning.
How's that for a start?


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> Hello all and Master Sogor, I am not really sure how to usequotes on several issues so I cut your response and bolded it and will answerin regular red text. I hope this is ok.  Also,I am sorry my words were bunched up.  Icut and pasted it from word and I guess it did not read the code correctly.
> *I don't want toengage in pointing out which organization is headed by a first dan, and issuing9th dans...its easy to find out, if you are interested, I can PM you. And no,you never implied that is was OK, but it is prolific in Hapkido...and somethingthat absolutely undermines the art.
> 
> *I understandthis may go on.  LikeI said I know of Korean&#8217;s that left Korea as a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] or 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]Dan Black Belt in Taekwondo and landed in the United States as a 6[SUP]th[/SUP]or 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Dan.  So I take you atyour word that 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Dan&#8217;s are starting their own Associations and issuingrank they have no business issuing. *
> ...




There is a lot here, but I want to address just a few things.

I don't believe all Hapkido is the same, most are good variants, but they often miss the mark rather badly.

I am curious as to why you believe BJJ is a serious threat?  Maybe it is regional, but here is Chicago, NO ONE would ever take anyone to the ground - on concrete, or in a bar...just not realistic.  And stopping the take downs is rather easy for the most part.  Just curious about that.

My issue with the "live training" buzz word is that it appears - again appears - to make the only "good" training is that in MMA, and I would say that MMA is primarily for sport, not a realistic "Live" self defense system....

And I will always maintain that we be watchdogs for the art, if we are not, no one else will. And now, as some of the older Korean's have passed away, creating a real hierarchy is getting harder.

Anyway, again, good post.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 8, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> There is a lot here, but I want to address just a few things.
> 
> I don't believe all Hapkido is the same, most are good variants, but they often miss the mark rather badly.
> 
> ...



I beleive that I felt BJJ or MMA was a treat for two reasons before I went to a BJJ and MMA school and faced them and my fear.  The BJJ schools here teach to take the fight to the ground even if it is a real street fight.  Once you are on the gound, you are in their world.  I am happy to say, that I have been off my feet only twice since 1997 while training in MMA or BJJ (once in 1998 and once a few months ago).  Both times were by wrestlers and both times I had the tools I learned in BJJ to finish the fight on the ground.  All other times however, I am able to stay on my feet and do the throwing using my Hapkido.  Hapkido has great take down defense but nothing is ever for sure.  I believe that I am only as strong as my weakest fighting range.  

It is true, BJJ leans to sport and MMA is a sport but they fight a resisting opponent (under rules, of course), but someone that is not use to people trying to really hurt then, rather it be sparring or a true fight is weak minded in my opinion.  If one does not forge themselves in combat or at least simulated combat will not know how the body reacts when it is time for them to use their art.  We call that reaction dynamics at MuSool Hapkido.  

When I say "live" training I mean going against someone that is really trying to punch you or choke you out.  Not someone that is punching and stopping it an inch from the target.  "Live" training does not have to mean sparring, however, I do enjoy doing different types of sparring.  

No will never hear me say that I think that there is another art that is better than true Hapkido on the street.  You will hear me say that MMA, BJJ, Sport Taekwondo, or Sport Karate has an advantage because they do spar and train against resisting partners.  That is why I spar.  Sometimes it is throwing and ground; sometimes it is kicking, punching and throwing, sometimes it is just hands and other it is all four ranges.  Sometimes we do drills to simulate the above. That is how you learn true timing.  Yes, we have to set up rules and guidelines for safety but we still teach students true no rules hapkido when we are not "live" training or "sparring".   

I will leave being the watchdog up to you.  Hapkido does not have a trademark and people are going to use it if they please because there is no hierarchy in our art.  That is not our fault.  The masters that came before us did not plan for such a thing like they did in some other arts. There are so many associations and federations that no one will ever get a grip on the true art vs what is not true. My goal will be to teach, what I feel is a true Hapkido and continue to spread it in a positive way.  If I see something I totally do not agree with, I will mention it in a respectful way.  If I really don't agree, I may send them a message telling them my stance on the subject, like I did when I saw one of my master's student's posting stuff that did not make the art look like our federations standard of Hapkiodo.  At the end of the day; that is all I can do, because at the end of the day all it is, is an opinion.  

That there, is my opinion and my two cents.  For all it is worth.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 8, 2012)

Instructor said:


> In the old days they would have handled this with an old fashioned @$$ kicking.  Nowadays not so much.



You would see more masters in proper shape and fighting abilities would be much better then they are.


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> I will leave being the watchdog up to you.  Hapkido does not have a trademark and people are going to use it if they please because there is no hierarchy in our art.  That is not our fault.  The masters that came before us did not plan for such a thing like they did in some other arts. There are so many associations and federations that no one will ever get a grip on the true art vs what is not true. My goal will be to teach, what I feel is a true Hapkido and continue to spread it in a positive way.  If I see something I totally do not agree with, I will mention it in a respectful way.  If I really don't agree, I may send them a message telling them my stance on the subject, like I did when I saw one of my master's student's posting stuff that did not make the art look like our federations standard of Hapkiodo.  At the end of the day; that is all I can do, because at the end of the day all it is, is an opinion.
> 
> That there, is my opinion and my two cents.  For all it is worth.



I certainly agree with you comments about live training, that is a very good summation.

However, I have to ask you about this section.  

We do have a hierarchy, we use rank, its already there.  But the question is, would people be ready to adhere to that hierarchy?

How do you see "true" Hapkido? 

Good post


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 8, 2012)

iron_ox said:


> I certainly agree with you comments about live training, that is a very good summation.
> 
> However, I have to ask you about this section.
> 
> ...



Yes, we do have a hierarchy that is not supported by a true National Governing Body.  I mean there are different Kwans and Federations that give rank.  Some of the rank is more respected than others because of the federation or kwan it comes from.  Taekwondo has the Kukkiwon and the World Taekwondo Federation issues or use to issue International Black Belts from there.  Now I understand they broke into two groups so now you can get a Kukkiwon Certificate without a WTF certificate.  Hapkido really doesn't have that.  I mean some will argue that the Kido Hae is the National Governing Body but others would beg to differ.

True Hapkido is not watered down, it hurts, it is hard yet it is soft.  True hapkido is experenced!  Before you know what has happened, you are on the ground tapping. 

That is my two cents.


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## iron_ox (Nov 10, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> Yes, we do have a hierarchy that is not supported by a true National Governing Body.  I mean there are different Kwans and Federations that give rank.  Some of the rank is more respected than others because of the federation or kwan it comes from.  Taekwondo has the Kukkiwon and the World Taekwondo Federation issues or use to issue International Black Belts from there.  Now I understand they broke into two groups so now you can get a Kukkiwon Certificate without a WTF certificate.  Hapkido really doesn't have that.  I mean some will argue that the Kido Hae is the National Governing Body but others would beg to differ.
> 
> True Hapkido is not watered down, it hurts, it is hard yet it is soft.  True hapkido is experenced!  Before you know what has happened, you are on the ground tapping.
> 
> That is my two cents.



I can't speak for Taekwondo, but the Kido Hae has not been a governing body since Choi Dojunim left them in the late 1960's, and the organization broke into smaller groups.  World Kido is run by a 1st Dan, Korean Kido does not issue certification outside Korea, and the other numerous "kido" associations, at least 3 have no real standing in Hapkido.

So, we are left with Choi Dojunim's hierarchy...his ranks and the way he issued them.


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 15, 2012)

Dwi Chugi said:


> You would see more masters in proper shape and fighting abilities would be much better then they are.



It is interesting to note that in some arts, masters and students are generally in excellent shape even into advanced ages.  Other arts, well...not so much.  I feel it is a direct correlation as to the amount of physical training and conditioning that are emphasised.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 15, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> It is interesting to note that in some arts, masters and students are generally in excellent shape even into advanced ages.  Other arts, well...not so much.  I feel it is a direct correlation as to the amount of physical training and conditioning that are emphasised.



Master Park (my Grandmaster) is in his 70's and is in great shape, Master Berry (my Direct Master) is 52 and is in great shape, I am hitting 40 in December I train everyday.  Master Park was ROK Special Forces and fought in Vietnam.  Master Berry is retired US Naval Special Ops. If you ever do a class with either of these guys, you are going to work.  Master Park lives two and half hours away from me and Master Berry lives an hour and a half from me.  They both instilled personal fitness in both my Taekwondo and Hapkido training so I train every day.  Not teach, TRAIN!  There is a difference.  The BJJ school I go to from time to time, that instructor is really fit as well. 


About a year and a half ago, Master Park (my Grandmaster) came back States side and re-opened his Dojang here in Tampa, Florida.  All the Master's and Grandmasters that are under him showed up.  Me and Master Berry were amaized how some of these Masters were so out of Shape.  These were the guys I looked up to as a kid.  I guess when the Master is away, the students won't train.  

It is in my humble opinion as Martial Arts Masters and Instructors, you need to look the part.  You do not have to be 5% body fat but you should look like you actually train.  You know, look the part of a Martial Artist. I allow my self 10 pounds.  If I go over my target weight by 10 pounds, it is time to start my healthy habits.  

Just my two cents.


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## iron_ox (Nov 15, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> It is interesting to note that in some arts, masters and students are generally in excellent shape even into advanced ages.  Other arts, well...not so much.  I feel it is a direct correlation as to the amount of physical training and conditioning that are emphasised.



To bad that conditioning does not equally equate to good Hapkido....


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 15, 2012)

This isn't a difference between arts so much as a difference between schools or individuals. 
All arts encourage us to be in the best condition possible.


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## Dwi Chugi (Nov 15, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> This isn't a difference between arts so much as a difference between schools or individuals.
> All arts encourage us to be in the best condition possible.



I can agree with that.  I see some great Hapkidoin in great shape; and then like in my example above some, not so much.  Same goes with Taekwondo, Judo, Karate, etc.

I have to agree with Mister Sogor, you do not have to be in the best shape to have good Hapkido.  However two guys in a fight with the same skills, the one in better shape will  most likely win the fight. 

All things being equal or not being equal for that matter, I want to be in shape if I ever have to use my art.  I want my students to be in shape and look like they train.  Plus, I want them to have the skills that they look like they have. 

Just my thought on the matter for what it is worth.


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## bushido (Nov 15, 2012)

lol, the one with the lesses scruples will win 

Sight, breath and mobility...these are our targets.  Take away any one of those, and there is no fight.
Strike first, don't stop...every strike like it is the only strike, every strike to one of the three targets.  

HKD is an art of deception...from the way we stand, to the way we move our body to decieve when striking and moving.  Strike with out wind up, cover the opponents sight when striking, move with out the up and down motion of some one moving.  The first strike you learn is a sucker shot. (Back of the live hand to the plane of the skull)
First and fore most, we are fighters...after the fight, we are martial artists again 

You can be cival and fight honorably...But I will not


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## Michael89 (Aug 29, 2014)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Why did you choose HKD as your martial art? What did/do you expect out of the art? What are your goals in the art? Has it met your expectations and/or would you change anything about the art if you could?​



well, I learned and still am learning Hapkido at Taekwondo school though self defense sessions I didn't know I was learning Hapkido till much later, one of masters explained to me what "Hapkido" is  and [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] emphasizes circular motion, redirection of force, and control of the opponent that was little before I became black belt. I love it, i kinda put [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]puzzle[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] together and just not  "one after one" techniques. only thing I'd add "hapkido free sparring" at dojang. If i ever truly want to tone my throwing,grapping, jointlocks. i will just go to "pure" hapkido school which is not around my area. better than nothing I guess. [/FONT]


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 29, 2014)

Michael89 said:


> well, I learned and still am learning Hapkido at Taekwondo school though self defense sessions I didn't know I was learning Hapkido till much later, one of masters explained to me what "Hapkido" is  and  emphasizes circular motion, redirection of force, and control of the opponent that was little before I became black belt. I love it, i kinda put puzzle together and just not  "one after one" techniques. only thing I'd add "hapkido free sparring" at dojang. If i ever truly want to tone my throwing,grapping, jointlocks. i will just go to "pure" hapkido school which is not around my area. better than nothing I guess.



I am curious, what did he say Hapkido was?


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## JJK HKD (Sep 4, 2014)

I loved reading these - you are my people!  
I started taking hapkido as I was searching for real self-defense and I wanted effective techniques which I believed will work.  I have a black belt in taekwondo and the self-defense I learned might be called "hapkido" but for the last 11 years I have been a student of real hapkido.  I have a hapkido only school - I teach "elements of" boxing (always with grabs allowed and sometimes takedowns allowed so not sport boxing), kickboxing, joint locks, throws, ground defense, weapon disarms, pinning techniques and escorts.  If my school has a specialty it would be kicking and joint locks - but we do a little bit of everything - not my addons but the actual system of hapkido.  The knowledge my 5th Dan instructors in taekwondo had regarding self-defense - and they were great people - was about what my yellow or green belts have.  There are exceptions to every rule, however, a hapkido only school will know how to generate power in punching, kicking, how to apply leverage when throwing (or stopping throw attempts) and joint locks / breaks.  The instructor in a hapkido only school learns to become more expert in their techniques - these techniques are not sport techniques or how to be precise in forms, but in self-defense techniques, redirecting energy and applying leverage.  I just don't see how someone can accurately learn taekwondo tournament kicks and then learn hapkido kicking - that's just one example.


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## Raymond (Sep 19, 2014)

This could be a long post but I'll try to keep it brief.

I love Hapkido because it offers everything I believe a martial art should have.  It has tradition, a history (albeit a controversial one  ), and a broad range of techniques.  I also like that it is an eclectic art.  There are as many ways "to do Hapkido" as there are individuals doing it.  Hapkido schools and masters can range from very no nonsense and tough all the way to being very artistic.  With all the Kwans, organizations, unaffiliated clubs, and lineages that make up the world of the art, there's something for everyone.  These are great things but they unfortunately can come with draw backs.  
I have done many styles and despite my lineage not tracing to any one organization, I will still consider myself a Hapkido stylist


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## Skip Cooper (Sep 23, 2014)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Why did you choose HKD as your martial art? What did/do you expect out of the art? What are your goals in the art? Has it met your expectations and/or would you change anything about the art if you could?​



Hapkido chose me.


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## marysson (Mar 12, 2015)

I chose it because 1) it was nearby and 2) it is a hybrid system and the particular school is more 'street' oriented than flashy or competition based.


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## jezr74 (Mar 13, 2015)

I trialed two other MAs for 6 months each, during my 6 months trialling HKD I decided it was what I was looking for, I liked the variety in the syllabus, from joint locks to striking to grappling and take downs, even starting to enjoy the falling and rolls.

A major factor was the people at the club as well.


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## Instructor (Mar 13, 2015)

jezr74 said:


> I trialed two other MAs for 6 months each, during my 6 months trialling HKD I decided it was what I was looking for, I liked the variety in the syllabus, from joint locks to striking to grappling and take downs, even starting to enjoy the falling and rolls.
> 
> A major factor was the people at the club as well.



If you're training with good folks style hardly matters at all!


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