# High kick effectiveness and form.



## aggrippa (Jan 17, 2016)

I'd like to start out by saying I'm only trained in TKD past the white belt.

My instructor never went over high kicks unless they were round house kicks, reverse round house kicks or side kicks. 

So I've never been sure if i should use the ball of the foot, the top or the heel when throwing a front high kick.
I know if you use your toes as a point you risk black or missing toenails or a broken toe.

I've seen a variant of this attack in modern media used where an assailant grabs a person from behind and that person performs a high kick that hits the attacker in the face. Theres never a good enough angle to tell exactly which part of the foot is striking. I would assume the toes would be the the main mode of attack. that is if it landed at all. 

You would need to hyper extend your leg to some degree to hit an opponent your height rather than overshooting.

This would also be necessary if you wanted to use the ball of your foot.
Does anyone know if this is an actual attack, or just another flashy move they use for comics and shows?

Note: the photo attached is purely as a point of reference and not exactly the same as what I'm describing.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 17, 2016)

The best answer is go back and learn in person. We can't see what you're doing so we don't know if what we say will be misinterpreted, especially if you have a very minimal amount of experience. You very well might end up overextending and pullung something if you try it incorrevtly. Take up TKD again, or another striking/kick oriented art, and you'll learn their version of a high kick when the instructor feels it's appropriate to teach it to you.

And please never try kicking someone using your toes as the point of impact.


----------



## aggrippa (Jan 17, 2016)

Yeah. Those are the two things I'm most worried about when trying something like that.
I'm planning on going back when i have enough cash, or I find a school that doesn't tie me into a contract.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 17, 2016)

Well until then, I'd suggest not attempting something that could injure yourself and just be patient


----------



## Hanzou (Jan 17, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> I'd like to start out by saying I'm only trained in TKD past the white belt.
> 
> My instructor never went over high kicks unless they were round house kicks, reverse round house kicks or side kicks.
> 
> ...



I know what kick you're talking about and its movie nonsense.

There's better and more realistic counters for someone grabbing you from behind.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 17, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> Does anyone know if this is an actual attack, or just another flashy move they use for comics and shows?


 Movie magic.  The picture that you posted shows the problem that you'll have, which is that you can't kick your own face.  Anyone that is the same height won't be to make the foot reach the face.  I think when they do it in the movies it's always a smaller woman fighting taller man. 

You have to keep in mind that the higher that leg goes the weaker your root will be making it easy for someone to sweep you.  Extreme TKD looks cool but it was never created for the purpose of fighting.  You have to separate self-defense TKD from the TKD tricking that is so popular these days.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 17, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> The best answer is go back and learn in person. We can't see what you're doing so we don't know if what we say will be misinterpreted, especially if you have a very minimal amount of experience. You very well might end up overextending and pullung something if you try it incorrevtly. Take up TKD again, or another striking/kick oriented art, and you'll learn their version of a high kick when the instructor feels it's appropriate to teach it to you.
> 
> And please never try kicking someone using your toes as the point of impact.


Why not? Some freak can spend all his free time running up and down stairwells, bare-foot, and on the tips of his toes, and make him self into a very mean toe kicker. Don't limit people with your well meaning, but flawed advice. Not to mention, steel toed boots!


----------



## kuniggety (Jan 17, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The picture that you posted shows the problem that you'll have, which is that you can't kick your own face.



Unless you're a midget.
Own Face Kicking


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 17, 2016)

Maybe kicking with the toes is also an alignment issue, where if the foot


kuniggety said:


> Unless you're a midget.
> Own Face Kicking


And to think. I actually searched the Internet to make sure something like this wouldn't pop up lol.


----------



## geezer (Jan 17, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> Unless you're a midget.
> Own Face Kicking



Wow. That's one athletic little guy!

So I went onto youtube and found several clips of dwarves kicking themselves in the forehead for laughs. ....er not really funny in my opinion, but whatever.

Then I found this. Dwarf self defense against high kicks. I _like_ this guys moves!





Tell ya what. _Don't underestimate little people_. My _big _brother is a little guy. Not quite a dwarf, but under 5'3" at his physical prime some 45 years ago. Back then he was a state wrestling champ and serious mountaineer, now he's 65 years old and still as dangerous as a berserk chimpanzee if sufficiently annoyed.

Oh, and he's also a top ranked marksman at 1,000 yards with iron sights (no scope). He's competed internationally ...even as far away as Oz. And for fun he shoots targets at _a full mile away _with something called a Lapua .338 magnum. Somehow my Wing Chun just doesn't work so well at that range!


----------



## ballen0351 (Jan 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> And please never try kicking someone using your toes as the point of impact.


That makes me cringe just thinking about it.  Like hitting you toes on a coffee table at night or something


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 18, 2016)

ballen0351 said:


> That makes me cringe just thinking about it.  Like hitting you toes on a coffee table at night or something


There is a story of some famous Japanese guy, breaking the knee cap of a Dutch sailor, with the tip of his toe, but it is a lot of work, for a parlor trick.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 18, 2016)

ballen0351 said:


> That makes me cringe just thinking about it.  Like hitting you toes on a coffee table at night or something


I just imagine stubbing my toe on something hard and sharp, then imagine doing it intentionally, with as much force as possible. Pretty sure I'd be crying like a baby doing that.


----------



## ballen0351 (Jan 18, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> There is a story of some famous Japanese guy, breaking the knee cap of a Dutch sailor, with the tip of his toe, but it is a lot of work, for a parlor trick.


Im sure its possible to build up your toes to do that but OUCH no thanks Im good


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I just imagine stubbing my toe on something hard and sharp, then imagine doing it intentionally, with as much force as possible. I have a high pain tolerance, pretty sure I'd be crying like a baby doing that.


It would be a hit just hard enough thing.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 18, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> I'd like to start out by saying I'm only trained in TKD past the white belt.
> 
> My instructor never went over high kicks unless they were round house kicks, reverse round house kicks or side kicks.
> 
> So I've never been sure if i should use the ball of the foot, the top or the heel when throwing a front high kick.



The TKD front kick is typically done with the ball of the foot when barefoot. Things are quite different when you're wearing shoes.



aggrippa said:


> I know if you use your toes as a point you risk black or missing toenails or a broken toe.



A broken toe is at least as likely.



aggrippa said:


> I've seen a variant of this attack in modern media used where an assailant grabs a person from behind and that person performs a high kick that hits the attacker in the face. Theres never a good enough angle to tell exactly which part of the foot is striking. I would assume the toes would be the the main mode of attack. that is if it landed at all.



I wouldn't do that unless I was wearing shoes, in which case I'd strike with the toes. And I probably wouldn't do it then, as it's not exactly a high percentage move...


----------



## aggrippa (Jan 18, 2016)

I'm going to ignore the post about Yoda (and the 2 worst minutes in cinematic history it just dredged up).

Its worth noting that steel toes only lower damage from punctures, slashes and all out crushing. to get rid of the impact, you'd need to add a lot more padding than just one or two layers of socks. same as any metal armor. Otherwise your just going to jam your toes against steel instead of flesh or bone.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 18, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> I'm going to ignore the post about Yoda (and the 2 worst minutes in cinematic history it just dredged up).[/QUOTE ]
> Hey! Yoda would never do something that stupid!
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## aggrippa (Jan 18, 2016)

because steel toes are useless for martial arts and I was curious if it was even possible.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 18, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> because steel toes are useless for martial arts and I was curious if it was even possible.


No.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Jan 18, 2016)

aggrippa said:


> I've seen a variant of this attack in modern media used where an assailant grabs a person from behind and that person performs a high kick that hits the attacker in the face. Theres never a good enough angle to tell exactly which part of the foot is striking. I would assume the toes would be the the main mode of attack. that is if it landed at all.
> 
> You would need to hyper extend your leg to some degree to hit an opponent your height rather than overshooting.
> 
> ...


That's a movie-fu technique that depends largely on the camera angle. Sort of like the hook kick that appears to knock out two opponents at once.

As far as a _real_ front kick aimed at the head of someone in _front_ of you, either the heel or the ball of the foot will work. Generally the heel works with more of a stomping action and the ball of the foot works with more of a snapping action to the kick.


----------



## RTKDCMB (Jan 18, 2016)

A front kick in TKD is typically done with the ball of the foot. I would never recommend kicking with the toes unless your goal is to get time off work for having broken toes. There are some Karate masters that can kick hard with the big toe without injury but they do an insane amount of conditioning for it. I personally see no value in it, but that's just me. You can kick with the instep but I would advise that only on a bent over opponent and where the angle of attack would require you to bent your toes back too far and you are clear of any elbows.

As for kicking over your head, the that would only really be useful if you were on your back and your opponent was standing behind you and even then you still need good flexibility.

If you are wearing steel caps you can still hurt your toes by kicking with them as your toes will strike the inside of the steel cap,(which hurts by the way). Kicking upwards would be better but then you risk hyper-extending your ankle. I would still tend to kick with the ball of the foot as I have yet to wear a pair of steel cap boots where I could not bend my toes back.


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 18, 2016)

Best high kick for the street, IMO, rear leg round house to the temple. Comes out of nowhere towards their blindspot, especially when setup with jabs:


----------



## Buka (Jan 18, 2016)

I wish you well, aggrippa, in getting back to training when you can. And welcome to Martial Talk.

The questions will be more properly answered by whatever instructor you eventually train under. Asking us around here - you do so at your own risk. (and sense of humor, of course)


----------



## kuniggety (Jan 18, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Maybe kicking with the toes is also an alignment issue, where if the foot
> 
> And to think. I actually searched the Internet to make sure something like this wouldn't pop up lol.



To be fair, their proportions aren't anywhere near the same as a regular person in which is would be impossible.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 18, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> Best high kick for the street, IMO, rear leg round house to the temple. Comes out of nowhere towards their blindspot, especially when setup with jabs:


 This wasn't a blindspot issue as much as the person who got hit with the kick doesn't understand how to deal with kicks.   Slow the video down and you'll see what I'm talking about. The guy in the shorts actually drops his guard when the kick comes in and you can actually see his hands trying to chase the incoming kick.  He saw the kick coming, he just didn't know how to handle it. From the look of it, I would say that he probably doesn't do sparring with anyone that kicks.


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 18, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This wasn't a blindspot issue as much as the person who got hit with the kick doesn't understand how to deal with kicks.   Slow the video down and you'll see what I'm talking about. The guy in the shorts actually drops his guard when the kick comes in and you can actually see his hands trying to chase the incoming kick.  He saw the kick coming, he just didn't know how to handle it. From the look of it, I would say that he probably doesn't do sparring with anyone that kicks.



Well yeah.....that video wasn't Lion Fight nor The UFC, it was in some street of a bad neighborhood. What's so unusual about someone not knowing how to address kicks there that you'd need to watch it in slow motion to figure it out. The NM went low for his first RH and the other guy thought he was going low again. 

And yes, there is a blindspot when getting kicked with a high roundhouse to the head like this. I didn't say it was a guaranteed KO strike or that this is the perfect strike. Like if I threw this against Buakaw, I doubt that I'd even touch him before I got KTFO. But this does work vs. equally experienced fighters, mainly because there's the blindspot there.  Been there, done that.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 18, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> Well yeah.....that video wasn't Lion Fight nor The UFC, it was in some street of a bad neighborhood. What's so unusual about someone not knowing how to address kicks there that you'd need to watch it in slow motion to figure it out.


 Because slow motion allows you to see if the kick was successful because it was in a blind spot or if the person just didn't know how to deal with kicks. In this case the guy saw the kick coming which means it wasn't in his blind spot.

The nature of a "blindspot" is that it's an area where you aren't going to see the attack come in. There is no default blindspot for a kick.  How big, how small, or the location of a blind spot will vary from person to person.  We see non-professional (students) and professional fighters block roundhouse kicks all the time and the reason they are able to block it is because 1. they see it and 2. they understand what they see and have a solution for it.  Any blind spot that one person has is not going to translate into the same blindspot to someone else.  

For me a round house doesn't exploit my blindspot because that's not where my bind spot is.  A round house may beat my defense, meaning it may hit me before I can use my defense but I always see roundhouse kicks coming.


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 18, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Because slow motion allows you to see if the kick was successful because it was in a blind spot or if the person just didn't know how to deal with kicks. In this case the guy saw the kick coming which means it wasn't in his blind spot.



No. He saw the leg lift from the ground, right in front of him, so he knows that a kick is coming. Obviously that's not a blind spot. But he dropped his hands to block  low to mid and the kick went high towards his temple in an oval loop. 



> The nature of a "blindspot" is that it's an area where you aren't going to see the attack come in. There is no default blindspot for a kick.



So you think that a blindspot is a complete, 100%, perfect, blind area? C'mon. How is this even possible
if 2 people are standing in front of each other, fighting?



> How big, how small, or the location of a blind spot will vary from person to person.  We see non-professional (students) and professional fighters block roundhouse kicks all the time and the reason they are able to block it is because 1. they see it and 2. they understand what they see and have a solution for it.  Any blind spot that one person has is not going to translate into the same blindspot to someone else.



Well no kidding that a high kick is blockable, this is obvious. But there is still a blindspot  due to the nature of this RH and especially if it's a ? kick.



> For me a round house doesn't exploit my blindspot because that's not where my bind spot is.  A round house may beat my defense, meaning it may hit me before I can use my defense but I always see roundhouse kicks coming.



Depends on who you fight.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 18, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> But he dropped his hands to block low to mid and the kick went high towards his temple in an oval loop.


Correct because he didn't understand the kick. For example, the correct defensive response to a low kick is not to drop your guard from your head, to try and stop a low kick with your hands. 



FriedRice said:


> So you think that a blindspot is a complete, 100%, perfect, blind area? C'mon. How is this even possible
> if 2 people are standing in front of each other, fighting?


 Yes.  The back of your head is a blind spot. 100% meaning that you cannot see the back of your head without the use of something reflective like 2 mirrors. 

Human visual range is around 180 degrees horizontal which means you can see what is on the side of your head. 
Test: Have someone stand next to you on your right side and left sid. Keep your head straight and only move your eyes to view the person standing next to you.  Most people should be able to see the person standing.  Now have the two people step back a little and repeat the test.  As long as you can see them with out turning your head or neck then they are still within your visual range.  If you don't see them then they are 100% outside of your visual range and 100% in your blindspot.  The fact that you can't see them 100% means that they are in your blind spot 100%

Closing one of your eyes creates a blind spot and no matter how you focus the open eye you'll never be able to see what is in that blindspot.   When you move your head, that blindspot is still at the same angle with the exception that now a different object is in the blind spot.   Do some research on Peripheral Vision for the human eye and you'll see just how wide visual range is.  So the answer your question is there a 100% perfect blind area? yes.  

Another trick that you can do to experience your blind spot is to hold your arms straight out to the side and slowly move your arms backwards while looking straight forward.  When you can no longer see your fingers wiggle then it's because they are in your blind spot.  This is important because if I'm facing you then it's really difficult for my opponent to get into my blind spot.  Fighters are always told to keep their eyes on the opponent because looking down or away puts the opponent into the blind spot and usually exposes the back of the head.  

Blindspots work horizontal and vertical.   If you watch the video in slow motion you'll see that he drops his guard while the kick is still in front of him and well within is visual range which is why he reacted to the kick in the first place.  Had the kick truly been in his blind spot then he wouldn't reacted to the kick at all. 

This is a kick that appears to be in this person's blind spot. Notice the reaction to the kick is totally different than the video that you showed.  In this video he doesn't react at all to the kick which makes me think that this kick was 1. in his blind spot because it landed under his chin, we can't see under our face and that's where the foot came from.  In this scenario he probably saw something that looked like a kick then it disappeared out of his vision making him think that nothing was coming which is why there was no effort to defend the kick he couldn't see.  My other guess is that he had tunnel vision to the point where he ignored any other movement.  Maybe he was so focused on his hands that he couldn't see anything else aka "Tunnel Vision."


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 19, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Correct because he didn't understand the kick. For example, the correct defensive response to a low kick is not to drop your guard from your head, to try and stop a low kick with your hands.



The funny thing is, many Kung-Fu people drop their hands to block my low to mid kicks. They're just real lucky it was only light sparring. One Sifu even said to drop the hands to block mid kicks. 



> Yes.  The back of your head is a blind spot. 100% meaning that you cannot see the back of your head without the use of something reflective like 2 mirrors.



Well if you let some get behind you from a staging point during a fight, then that's just inexperience.  



> Human visual range is around 180 degrees horizontal which means you can see what is on the side of your head.
> Test: Have someone stand next to you on your right side and left sid. Keep your head straight and only move your eyes to view the person standing next to you.  Most people should be able to see the person standing.  Now have the two people step back a little and repeat the test.  As long as you can see them with out turning your head or neck then they are still within your visual range.  If you don't see them then they are 100% outside of your visual range and 100% in your blindspot.  The fact that you can't see them 100% means that they are in your blind spot 100%
> 
> Closing one of your eyes creates a blind spot and no matter how you focus the open eye you'll never be able to see what is in that blindspot.   When you move your head, that blindspot is still at the same angle with the exception that now a different object is in the blind spot.   Do some research on Peripheral Vision for the human eye and you'll see just how wide visual range is.  So the answer your question is there a 100% perfect blind area? yes.



Then thanks for agreeing with me that a high RH kick to the temple, does enter the blindspot.

Another trick that you can do to experience your blind spot is to hold your arms straight out to the side and slowly move your arms backwards while looking straight forward.  When you can no longer see your fingers wiggle then it's because they are in your blind spot.  This is important because if I'm facing you then it's really difficult for my opponent to get into my blind spot.  Fighters are always told to keep their eyes on the opponent because looking down or away puts the opponent into the blind spot and usually exposes the back of the head. 



> Blindspots work horizontal and vertical.   If you watch the video in slow motion you'll see that he drops his guard while the kick is still in front of him and well within is visual range which is why he reacted to the kick in the first place.  Had the kick truly been in his blind spot then he wouldn't reacted to the kick at all.



No. He saw the leg lift for a kick. but just doesn't know what level it's going to. And the nature of the high RH kick to the temple, is that it enters the blindspot at a certain point, momentarily. 



> This is a kick that appears to be in this person's blind spot. Notice the reaction to the kick is totally different than the video that you showed.  In this video he doesn't react at all to the kick which makes me think that this kick was 1. in his blind spot because it landed under his chin, we can't see under our face and that's where the foot came from.  In this scenario he probably saw something that looked like a kick then it disappeared out of his vision making him think that nothing was coming which is why there was no effort to defend the kick he couldn't see.  My other guess is that he had tunnel vision to the point where he ignored any other movement.  Maybe he was so focused on his hands that he couldn't see anything else aka "Tunnel Vision."



It can be various to many reasons. One being, he's facing a world title holder and possibly the best ever, martial artist....and he's scared.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 19, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> The funny thing is, many Kung-Fu people drop their hands to block my low to mid kicks. They're just real lucky it was only light sparring. One Sifu even said to drop the hands to block mid kicks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You still don't understand.  Put your shoe to your temple as if someone is kicking your temple and let me know if you still see the shoe.


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 21, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You still don't understand.  Put your shoe to your temple as if someone is kicking your temple and let me know if you still see the shoe.



Did you just make this diagram, just for this argument of this post? If yes, I'm impressed.

Unfortunately, I still stand by my argument that the RH head kick is effective because it enters a blindspot when targeting the temple.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 21, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> Did you just make this diagram, just for this argument of this post? If yes, I'm impressed.
> 
> Unfortunately, I still stand by my argument that the RH head kick is effective because it enters a blindspot when targeting the temple.


Nope. I didn't make this diagram.  There are tons of these diagrams discussing peripheral vision of the human eye which is why I said do some research on it.  I'm not making this up, it's science. Just to humor you here's an image from a site that I just found who shows the same peripheral test that I was talking about.
Source: Peripheral Vision Test




The reason I have a lot of information on this subject is because I've been doing some research about the eye to help me become a better martial artist.

You can believe what you want about the kick. I have no interest in changing your views on the subject.  My responses are more for others who may be interested in the information and my conversation with you is helping to deliver that.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 21, 2016)

This is what I'm learning and beginning to understand:  It's a really good article that has more than what I put here.
Source: Psychology Today
"_The proper gaze needs to be an unfocused attention that allows reaction to everything, a readiness for anything while focusing on nothing specifically. Musashi wrote that one must “perceive that which cannot be seen with the eye.” Although he may not have conceived of it this way, Musashi’s words do an excellent job of separating visual information (seeing with the eye) from conscious awareness (perception)._"

"_Musashi wrote that the eye for simply observing things is naturally strong but that the eye for seeing things for what they are is naturally weak. He further cautioned to see “distant things as if they are close” and close things “as if they are distant” to avoid distraction. He urges that “you cannot master this ability quickly…use this gaze in everyday life and not vary it_…”"

What he is referring to is Peripheral vision.  The close and distance that he's talking about refers to focus.

"_Musashi referred extensively to training vison and perception through martial arts, but now there is modern evidence in experimental psychology to support his assertions and show that visual abilities can be enhanced with such training. In this context, enhance means protecting against the normal decrements in dynamic visual acuity that occurs as we age. Dynamic visual acuity is simply a term for the ability we have to discriminate details about an object (in the martial context think fist, foot, or sword) when there is motion between the observer and the object. This fits the bill perfectly when it comes to martial arts where opponents are usually in motion constantly relative to each other_."


----------



## Kenpoguy123 (Jan 22, 2016)

The only time you should kick a guy in the head is if he's on the floor and trying to get up to attack you again


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 22, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> The only time you should kick a guy in the head is if he's on the floor and trying to get up to attack you again



I really shouldn't like this but I do  As my mother taught me 'never hit a man when he's down... kick him it's easier'.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 22, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> The only time you should kick a guy in the head is if he's on the floor and trying to get up to attack you again


Or when he bends to tie his shoe, which you secretly untied.


----------



## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2016)

Maybe we should ask the guy in the video if he didn't see the kick because it was in his blind spot.  Ya know, because it was him, he was there, all that...


----------



## Kenpoguy123 (Jan 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I really shouldn't like this but I do  As my mother taught me 'never hit a man when he's down... kick him it's easier'.



There's an old saying my late instructor used to say when relating to fights. Never kick a man below the soles of his feet and never kick a woman in the testicles. Basically means anythings a target haha


----------



## RTKDCMB (Jan 23, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The back of your head is a blind spot. 100% meaning that* you cannot see the back of your head*


I seem to never be able to turn around fast enough.


----------



## RTKDCMB (Jan 23, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> And yes, there is a blindspot when getting kicked with a high roundhouse to the head like this.


There is a blind spot (more accurately an angle where the kick is harder to see) for that particular kick but this wasn't it. For the kick to come in to your blind side you would have to be standing side on. In this case the guy who got kicked was standing front on and had an ample view of the kick, which was thrown in isolation, not as part of a combination.


----------



## drop bear (Jan 24, 2016)

ballen0351 said:


> Im sure its possible to build up your toes to do that but OUCH no thanks Im good



One of my coaches does it and cripples people with it.  And i am still not game to do it myself. Dude has a big foot though.

Aims it into the hip joint.


----------



## drop bear (Jan 24, 2016)

Double  post.


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 26, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I really shouldn't like this but I do  As my mother taught me 'never hit a man when he's down... kick him it's easier'.


 
She taught you how to fight like a woman.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 26, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> She taught you how to fight like a woman.



Damn right she did, no holds barred, in yer face, maximum damage and walk away.
It's a shame you can't say the same.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Jan 26, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Damn right she did, no holds barred, in yer face, maximum damage and walk away.
> It's a shame you can't say the same.


My mother was a bartender. She can cut you down with a few well hurled insults.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 26, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> My mother was a bartender. She can cut you down with a few well hurled insults.



My mother was Haganah, she'd have shot you down with her Uzi but she was good with insults too lol. We have/had good mothers!


----------



## FriedRice (Jan 26, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Damn right she did, no holds barred, in yer face, maximum damage and walk away.
> It's a shame you can't say the same.



That's awesome! Metamucil?


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 26, 2016)

FriedRice said:


> That's awesome! Metamucil?


----------

