# What about SBD



## Manny (Jun 15, 2012)

Well here I am questioning againg? What are the diferences beetewen TSD and SBD? Soo Bak Do was H.Khee invention and as long as I know H.Khee first used the term Tang Soo Do and then invented Soo Bak Do? Are they related? How diferent are these Martial Arts?

Manny


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## Kaygee (Jun 15, 2012)

From what I've seen, they are nearly identical.


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## Kaygee (Jun 17, 2012)

I did a little bit of research on this, and there seems to be other threads about it as well. But it seems that Soo Bahk Do has completely different forms than Tang Soo Do. They are more "fluent" and "soft", if I had to describe them. There's actually some history, as far as a disagreement, between the two arts as well. Quite interesting.


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## JWLuiza (Jun 17, 2012)

It varies because there is high variance in TSD schools. Some TSD are more similar to SBD because they left recently and continue to practice the Chil Sung and Yuk Rho type movements (Mi Guk Kwan) but because of copyright use TSD instead of SBD to describe their martial art. Other TSD schools broke off before the Chil Sung and Yuk Rho hyung were added and don't have the soft movements in their forms. Other TSD schools are so old they still teach Sip Pal Gi as part of their curriculum and were never really part of the MDK but are lead by those with very low Dan Bon numbers.

So in short: there is no "average" TSD school but the history of the TSD school's lineage should give an idea of how similar/disimilar that school is to SBD.


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## chrispillertkd (Jun 17, 2012)

JWLuiza said:


> Other TSD schools are so old they still teach Sip Pal Gi as part of their curriculum and were never really part of the MDK but are lead by those with very low Dan Bon numbers.



This is quite interesting. I've never heard that Sib Pal Gi was part of Tang Soo Do's foundation. I know Hwang Kee supposedlly knew Tai Chi, but it's my understanding that Sib Pal Gi is from a different style. Do you know who these Dan Bon holders are and what schools they head? Were these Dan Bon holders the ones who introduced Sib pal Gi into their TSD curriculum as opposed to Hwang Kee?

Pax,

Chris


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## JWLuiza (Jun 17, 2012)

Sip Pal Gi is just generic term for korean kung fu. The one guy in Maryland that I knew who did that has retired and his TKD school is now in his son's control. Chang H. Park in Maryland. Sip Pal Gi, Tai Chi type moves were never a huge part of the curriculum early on as I understand it, but was often taught in conjunction with the TSD/karate style moves.


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## chrispillertkd (Jun 18, 2012)

JWLuiza said:


> Sip Pal Gi is just generic term for korean kung fu. The one guy in Maryland that I knew who did that has retired and his TKD school is now in his son's control. Chang H. Park in Maryland. Sip Pal Gi, Tai Chi type moves were never a huge part of the curriculum early on as I understand it, but was often taught in conjunction with the TSD/karate style moves.



Interesting. The little I have read on Shibpalgi seemed to present it as a specific style (especially given the translation of the name). I have never heard the term used to refer to the CMA training Hwang Kee received.

Do you know if Chang H. Park received his Shibpalgi training from Hwang Kee or elsewhere?

Pax,

Chris


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## JWLuiza (Jun 18, 2012)

Elsewhere, but from korea, from what I understand. Many of the early TSD guys who worked with the MDK really weren't direct trainees of Hwang Kee, such as Kim Ki Whang.

Other interesting point: early on Hwang Kee's Hwa Soo Do was a softer style than his TSD and the transition was apparently due to popularity. Hwa Soo Do did not have the Pyong Ahns as part of the art IIRC.


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## chrispillertkd (Jun 18, 2012)

JWLuiza said:


> Elsewhere, but from korea, from what I understand. Many of the early TSD guys who worked with the MDK really weren't direct trainees of Hwang Kee, such as Kim Ki Whang.



Interestig, thanks.



> Other interesting point: early on Hwang Kee's Hwa Soo Do was a softer style than his TSD and the transition was apparently due to popularity. Hwa Soo Do did not have the Pyong Ahns as part of the art IIRC.



I've often wondered what, exactly, Hwa Soo Do consisted of. If this is accurate it looks (to me) like Hwang Kee kind of went back to his first principles in some ways when he developed the later MDK hyung. Some of them, anyway, appear much "softer" than the forms he and other Kwan founders lifted from karate.

Pax,

Chris


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## dancingalone (Aug 27, 2013)

I see it as more of a political label than a technical one.  I know of 1 TSD dojang that is affiliating with the USS SBD Association due to the death of the senior instructor and so the junior instructors are now gradually realigning their curriculum towards the organization's.  They say there is not a huge change other than the need to learn all of the Chil Sung and Yuk Rho hyung eventually.


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## DMcHenry (Aug 27, 2013)

Grandmaster Henry Murphy does SipPalgi with his TSD/TKD.


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## Don Daly (Oct 28, 2013)

I believe Yoon, Byung-In originally called his Chinese forms/techniques Kwon Bop Bu which means Chuan Fa Wu or Fist Method Defense.  He also taught Shudokan Karate with it, but his school (along with Hwang Kee's) where more oriented toward their original Chinese (and Korean) arts than the other Kwans (at least originally).  All the Kwans eventually added flashy kicks from Taekkyon to there Karate but Master Yoon's schools (and several of their decendants) are the only ones still using his Kwon bop hyungs.  Kim, Pyung-Soo is one of the caretakers of this art.  I know that Kim, Ki-Whang also had training in Chinese Kung Fu as can be seen by some of the Hyungs that his students have passed on.  I believe that Sang Geuk Kwon is one of these.  As leader of Moo Duk Kwan in the USA for a while he passed some of these on to other instructors who are part of Soo Bahk Bo today.  I do not know if any of them still teach any of these.

Don Daly


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