# Cuong Nhu Wing Chun



## CuongNhuka (Jun 26, 2009)

So, I was talking to Tensei is another thread, and I went to further demostrate how Cuong Nhu forms have been modified from there orginal state to way they exist in Cuong Nhu. That aside, I felt I should show you guys the Cuong Version of Wing Chun Material.

This is the one that is going to roll all kinds of heads. Here is Cuong Nhu's adaption of Biu Tze (called Wing Chun 3 in Cuong Nhu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GT5_X75Bg
In addition, here is a video of one our Masters demostrating some Dummy Material
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3pKta8qx6Q
And some videos of Cuong Nhu guys doing Applications of Wing Chun material
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8m1qHGW-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPw0AWWIWLU
I cann't find a video of a Cuong Nhu guy doing the second or third forms though. The drills are a complicated matter. They don't exist (per se) in Cuong Nhu. 

The Pak Sao/Chum Choi is adapted to a completly different set of drills, called 'blocks and punches'. The partners are the same distance apart as in the Wing Chun drill. Partner A does a low punch with his right arm, Partner B does the Karate-style Low Block with his left arm (causing him to block ulna to ulna, or on the outside of the arm). This is done to the other side (left punch/right block). Then Partner A punches low with his right arm, and Partner B blocks with his left (ulna to radial, or to the inside of the arm). This is repeated on the otherside. In other words, the blocking is done 'left, right, right, left'. This simple drill is done with an array of blocks at various levels, which will end being done hundreds thousands of times by the time the student get a Black Belt.

The Lap Sao drill is changed into a concept (the name eludes me). The concept is often applied into a drill that resembles the Lap Sao drill, but from a fighting stance. There are quite a few different variations of this drill.

The Dan Chi Sao drill becomes a concept also, called the 'bounce principle'. Most drills I've seen based on the bounce principle involve the Pattern A throwing a jab, and Partner B using a some kind of block (a Pak Sao based block is common), then 'boucing' off the opponents (now) redirected arm, and into Partner A's ribs or face. There are also variations being done from the gaurd.

Don't get me started on Luk Sao/Chi Sao. As you've seen, Cuong Nhu includes the three unarmed forms, however the Dummy, Pole, and Butterfly Knives aren't taught. The various principle on which Wing Chun is founded are found in Cuong Nhu (ie, Center Line, and Economy of movement). The Man Sao Wu Sao guard is also used in Cuong Nhu, but we call it the "O'Sensei Guard", we also do a great deal of trapping and body checking.

So, who wants to learn Cuong Nhu? haha


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## arnisador (Jun 26, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> Here is Cuong Nhu's adaption of Biu Tze (called Wing Chun 3 in Cuong Nhu)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GT5_X75Bg



Hmmmm, looks like it has aspects of Tensho and Naihanchi! Was this a good performance of the form? Not being familiar with the system always makes it hard to tell.

The applications end up having lots of takedowns, I see.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 26, 2009)

arnisador said:


> Hmmmm, looks like it has aspects of Tensho and Naihanchi! Was this a good performance of the form? Not being familiar with the system always makes it hard to tell.


 
I couldn't tell you. I'm a little brown belt, and the first Wing Chun form is a Nidan requirement. That I know it (and Chum Kiu) is a completly seperate matter



arnisador said:


> The applications end up having lots of takedowns, I see.


 
Most Cuong Nhu applications do. Our style is based (in a techinical regard) on Shotokan and Judo. There's alot of Aikido also, so you'll probably see alot of Judo and Aikido done in our applications (which at a point have to include a take down or joint lock of some sort).


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## Tensei85 (Jun 27, 2009)

Thanks, for the links.

A question in Cuong Nhu, I was aware of there being Sil Lim Tau but never heard of there being Chum Kiu or Biu Gee via the Saginaw Michigan branch.
But then again the head Instructor's son teaches Wing Chun anyways so when they pass the SLT he sends them to learn CK later from his son. 

Do you know at what point it is incorporated into the system?

Thanks,


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 27, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Thanks, for the links.
> 
> A question in Cuong Nhu, I was aware of there being Sil Lim Tau but never heard of there being Chum Kiu or Biu Gee via the Saginaw Michigan branch.
> But then again the head Instructor's son teaches Wing Chun anyways so when they pass the SLT he sends them to learn CK later from his son.
> ...


 
As far as I know the second and third are requirements, but again I'm not a Black belt yet, and Sui Nim Tao is a Nidan requirement. I think (but don't quote me) that Chum Kiu and Biu Gee are requirements also, but I don't know for sure. The current head of syle is trying to unify and simplify the whole system. At the moment the requirements for material after Black Belt is very chaotic, and when Master Quihn took charge it was much worse. So, things change basicly evey year.


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## Tensei85 (Jun 27, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> As far as I know the second and third are requirements, but again I'm not a Black belt yet, and Sui Nim Tao is a Nidan requirement. I think (but don't quote me) that Chum Kiu and Biu Gee are requirements also, but I don't know for sure. The current head of syle is trying to unify and simplify the whole system. At the moment the requirements for material after Black Belt is very chaotic, and when Master Quihn took charge it was much worse. So, things change basicly evey year.



Thanks for the details, yea I remember after Grandmaster Ngo Dong died things were pretty chaotic back then with re-structuring, lol but hopefully it will work it self out.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 27, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Thanks for the details, yea I remember after Grandmaster Ngo Dong died things were pretty chaotic back then with re-structuring, lol but hopefully it will work it self out.


 
You did Cuong Nhu? It's still working itself out


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## Tensei85 (Jun 27, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> You did Cuong Nhu? It's still working itself out


 
Yea, lol back in the day. But its been probably about 10 years or so.


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## geezer (Jun 28, 2009)

arnisador said:


> Hmmmm, looks like it has aspects of Tensho and Naihanchi! Was this a good performance of the form? Not being familiar with the system always makes it hard to tell.
> 
> The applications end up having lots of takedowns, I see.



My impressions were much the same regarding the Biu Tze form. And, if I had seen the self-defense applications performed without seeing the demonstrators show the movements from the Siu Nim Tau form first, I wouldn't have recognized them as WC/WT. Yes, there were some familiar "positions" but the flow, the stances, and the quality of the energy were not what I'm used to at all. The same could be said for the dummy movements. The fast, light hand work is similar, but the body/stance positioning  and movement is not the same. Clearly, the WC incorporated into Cuong Nhu has taken on a very _different flavor_ that seems far more "Karate-like" than anything I have experienced coming from either the Yip Man or other Chinese Fo'shan lineages. 

BTW _Cuong Nhuka_ --thanks for posting the links.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 28, 2009)

geezer said:


> My impressions were much the same regarding the Biu Tze form. And, if I had seen the self-defense applications performed without seeing the demonstrators show the movements from the Siu Nim Tau form first, I wouldn't have recognized them as WC/WT. Yes, there were some familiar "positions" but the flow, the stances, and the quality of the energy were not what I'm used to at all. The same could be said for the dummy movements. The fast, light hand work is similar, but the body/stance positioning and movement is not the same. Clearly, the WC incorporated into Cuong Nhu has taken on a very _different flavor_ that seems far more "Karate-like" than anything I have experienced coming from either the Yip Man or other Chinese Fo'shan lineages.
> 
> BTW _Cuong Nhuka_ --thanks for posting the links.


 
Did you read the comments? Some of those get funny. 
However, many Cuong Nhu people will cross train in Wing Chun, so some people will demostrate more Wing Chun like material. However, O'Sensei tried to get everything to flow together, so some material has been drasticlly changed. Something that is funny, is even though our Wing Chun looks very Karate-like, we get critized for having Kung Fu like Karate:rofl:


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## geezer (Jun 28, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> ...Something that is funny, is even though our Wing Chun looks very Karate-like, we get critized for having Kung Fu like Karate:rofl:



Ha! There's just no pleasing some people! But did you get a chance to do some unstructured "play" with any of them?


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 28, 2009)

geezer said:


> Ha! There's just no pleasing some people! But did you get a chance to do some unstructured "play" with any of them?


 
They're people with Youtube balls. People in the real world tend to repsect us. But those are mostly the people at Seminars who see us learning something we've never been exposed to before and learning it easily. The amount of material we have to know seems to reduce some of the learning curve. People at tournaments tend to respect us because it's hard to disrespect a style after it got done walking up and down your butt.


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## Tensei85 (Jun 28, 2009)

Here's some clips of Vinh Xuan (Wing Chun) for comparative analysis:

Self defense- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCjV...10BDC41D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26

Chi Sau- 




Hand forms-


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## Tensei85 (Jun 28, 2009)

Btw- Cuongnhuka, at what time period would you say that Wing Chun was incorporated into Cuong Nhu's curriculum?

Based on the above examples it would seem that the Cuong Nhu's Wing Chun would be more similar to the Hong Kong's Wing Chun.


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 28, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Btw- Cuongnhuka, at what time period would you say that Wing Chun was incorporated into Cuong Nhu's curriculum?
> 
> Based on the above examples it would seem that the Cuong Nhu's Wing Chun would be more similar to the Hong Kong's Wing Chun.


 
I'm not sure what you mean by 'at what time period'. Are you referring to the lineage of our Wing Chun? If so, a little independent research on my part makes it so I'm about 99% sure it's whats called 'Vietnamese Wing Chun'. My logic follows below:
O'Sensei (as a child) learned Wing Chun from his brothers, who learned it from a live-in Master named Te Kong (source=Wiki article "Ngo Dong")
There is a Wing Chun Master named Nguen Te Kong who is the patriarch of Vietnamese Wing Chun (source=http://vietwingchun.com/teachers/indexe.shtml)

So, it seems likely to me that it's Vietnamese Wing Chun.


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## Tensei85 (Jun 28, 2009)

CuongNhuka said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by 'at what time period'. Are you referring to the lineage of our Wing Chun? If so, a little independent research on my part makes it so I'm about 99% sure it's whats called 'Vietnamese Wing Chun'. My logic follows below:
> O'Sensei (as a child) learned Wing Chun from his brothers, who learned it from a live-in Master named Te Kong (source=Wiki article "Ngo Dong")
> There is a Wing Chun Master named Nguen Te Kong who is the patriarch of Vietnamese Wing Chun (source=http://vietwingchun.com/teachers/indexe.shtml)
> 
> So, it seems likely to me that it's Vietnamese Wing Chun.



Sorry, for the confusion. That pretty much answers my question as of what time frame did O'Sensei learn Wing Chun.

Answers it perfectly, thanks.

Also Vinh Xuan is the same as Wing Chun or whats called Vietnamese Wing Chun in Vietnamese lol. Confusing...


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## CuongNhuka (Jun 28, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Also Vinh Xuan is the same as Wing Chun or whats called Vietnamese Wing Chun in Vietnamese lol. Confusing...


 
I geussed.


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