# does FMA REALLY work



## cfr (Mar 5, 2004)

Ive been getting pretty bored lately with FMA. (IM really referring to double sticks here) I train @ a school thats a mix of FMA/ Muay Thai/ Silat/ and JKD. My main interests are in MT. Im starting to wonder if my FMA training is worthless. My instructor says that weapons training helps your empty hand training. I beleive that, but dont know to what extent. Whats your take on that concept. Not from what you've read, but what you've done/ seen. It just keeps going through my head, "when will I ever be walking down the road with these 2 sticks" bla bla bla... Also, if you've got s story of when FMA actually saved your ***, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me...


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 5, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> Ive been getting pretty bored lately with FMA. (IM really referring to double sticks here) I train @ a school thats a mix of FMA/ Muay Thai/ Silat/ and JKD. My main interests are in MT. Im starting to wonder if my FMA training is worthless. My instructor says that weapons training helps your empty hand training. I beleive that, but dont know to what extent. Whats your take on that concept. Not from what you've read, but what you've done/ seen. It just keeps going through my head, "when will I ever be walking down the road with these 2 sticks" bla bla bla... Also, if you've got s story of when FMA actually saved your ***, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me...


I am not sure what your are exactly looking for.

I have been lucky enough to survive a few knife incidents.

Multiple attackers, where I was able to pick up a can of tuna fish  from the parking lot. It made a nice impact tool for skulls.

I have people come at me with a tire iron, a baseball bat, a gold club, ..., .


Did FMA work? I think it worked for me. I still say some of it was luck though.

Yet, I am not the normal person nor the normal martial artist either.

I think the question you might want to ask is do you enjoy it?
:asian:


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## cfr (Mar 5, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I think the question you might want to ask is do you enjoy it?
> :asian:



I'd probably enjoy it more if I thought it would benifit me. How did it work for you? Were the techs you used based on training from FMA?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 5, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> I'd probably enjoy it more if I thought it would benifit me. How did it work for you? Were the techs you used based on training from FMA?


Well other than learning from experience on the street, I have only trained in FMA.

18 Plus years now, yet back when I had less training I still used it for myself and for friends defense, and even family defense.


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## cfr (Mar 5, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Well other than learning from experience on the street, I have only trained in FMA.



Do you think weapons training helps empty hands?


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## arnisador (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm a big believer in weapons training helping empty hand. After training with knives for a while I move at "knife speed" when I switch to my empty hand stuff. The increased danger factor of knives and sticks increases one's sensitivity and footwork skills, and the need with sticks to move between various ranges is also useful. Of course, to defend against a stick-like weapon or knife, or to use a makeshift weapon of similar sort, it is important to have some familiarity with it, and I find FMA's angles translate well to many other types of weapons than just the stick and knife.

For me, releasing myself from a grasp or grasping and controlling (briefly) someone else are things I've always practiced, since my karate days, but arnis has really improved them greatly--from releasing my stick hand when grabbed and grabbing someone else's stick.

Double stick is good for practicing coordination--for when you want your hands doing different things--and for getting everything going at once more generally (practicing your footwork while both hands are working away), but for me personally it's one of the less important aspects for empty hand.


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## bart (Mar 6, 2004)

When trained correctly any Martial Art is effective. That's a whole debate on its own. I think FMA is useful. I think it's effective. I've got some experience to back that up too. But when training FMA, you have to understand that it is not as "spoon fed" as a lot of other arts. I don't mean anything negative to any art, FMA or not. It is just a difference in the method of teaching. One method gives you an exact defense against an exact technique. The other method gives you choices and then you decide what you're going to apply. FMA tends to fall into the latter category. If you don't bring any fight to your FMA, it will not do much in the way of fighting. The FMA will develop your agility, capability, and other fighting attributes, but the fighting mindset has to be put in by you. 

Have you looked around a bit for other FMA groups in SoCal that might broaden your interest? Have you done any full contact sparring or light sparring with it? These things might force you to put a little action into the drills that you're doing. Have you talked to your instructor about it? Usually we're pretty understanding about boredom and can spice things up a bit when the need arises and sometimes a teacher needs the shock of a student saying that they're ready for more. 

Best of luck


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 6, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> Do you think weapons training helps empty hands?


Yes, Weapons training does help. 

It helps for when you do have a weapon. 
It helps for when you have an improvised weapon.
It helps when you have no weapon and your opponent does.
It helps you understand that there could be a weapon drawn, even if there was not one in the beginning of the confrotation.

Yet, I admit that it is the only game in town I have used. 

:asian:


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## DoxN4cer (Mar 6, 2004)

In 50 words or less... YES.


Training with weapons takes 5 times more coordination, so when you tranasition back to emty hand you're 5 times more coordinated. It supercharges your training by exponentially increasing attributes like perceptual speed and hand eye coordination.

Tim Kashino
_____________
"Be, Know, Do"


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## f.m.a.c.student (Mar 7, 2004)

does double stick work yes, if nothing else it teaches you to use your left hand or rite hand depnding on...

it also teaches not to totaly rely on your strong side in case it gets hurt in a fight and you still need to protect your self


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 7, 2004)

does fma training work. NOPE   :rofl: thats why its been around so long
weapons training lets you learn many things if you stay with it a while.
Empty hands learn when they are not empty


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 7, 2004)

f.m.a.c.student said:
			
		

> does double stick work yes, if nothing else it teaches you to use your left hand or rite hand depnding on...
> 
> it also teaches not to totaly rely on your strong side in case it gets hurt in a fight and you still need to protect your self


F.M.A.C.Student aka Mike,

Glad you signed up and have joined us here at Matrtial Talk.

If you have any technical issues you can post them in the Supprot Forum or contact a staff person such as myself. 

See you around


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## arnisandyz (Mar 8, 2004)

Nope, IT doesn't work for someone who doesn't want it to work, you have to make it work and make the connection yourself. Obviously hearing it from your own instructors still has you skeptical, hearing that it works on a forum that caters to FMA will also leave you wondering. If you stick with it, after a while it will be as if a light bulb came on.  But you have to be willing to turn that light on yourself.  Like someone else said, if your not into it (if its not fun for you) you'll never find your way down the dark hallway to find the light switch.


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## loki09789 (Mar 9, 2004)

I guess one thing to consider when you are questioning effectiveness is this:

Why are you questioning it.  Are you measuring the visible effectiveness of FMA vs. MT based on MT experience.  Look into the Krabri Krabrang sources for MT training.  MT, believe it or don't, is the dilluted 'safe' version of KK training - which is weapon based and similar in some ways to FMA.

The other issue is direct application.  OF COURSE the possibility of finding two equally lengthed sticks that you would use on the street is unlikely, but so is the possibility of having to use your punches to put out a candle (focus training exercise in MT).

Consider if you have ever found yourself using a FMA evasion/striking technique pattern/tactic during MT sparring.  If so, did YOU make it work?  If so, then FMA works for you.


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## cfr (Mar 9, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> I guess one thing to consider when you are questioning effectiveness is this:
> 
> Why are you questioning it.  Are you measuring the visible effectiveness of FMA vs. MT based on MT experience.  Look into the Krabri Krabrang sources for MT training.  MT, believe it or don't, is the dilluted 'safe' version of KK training - which is weapon based and similar in some ways to FMA.
> 
> ...



The whole 2 stick thing is my real hang up. However, I talked to my instructor last night and he said that in my next phase (2-4 months) I will begin knife training which is something Im really looking forward too.


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## loki09789 (Mar 9, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> The whole 2 stick thing is my real hang up. However, I talked to my instructor last night and he said that in my next phase (2-4 months) I will begin knife training which is something Im really looking forward too.



It probably gets confusing with all the systems that you are exposed to in a JKD format vs a strictly FMA format to see the application/effectiveness clearly early on.  It would be very difficult to see the practicallity of two stick style from your perspective with everything else going on.

Double stick stuff is great as an instructional tool though because it is really easy to see and large enough so that the movements are easier to follow.  Translating to empty hand or knife will clarify the subtleties of FMA training that come from that gross motor foundation of the double stick.

I have always considered knife training as more a metaphor for and manual dexterity training development for locks and traps than as direct application instruction myself.


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