# More guns than you thought.



## hardheadjarhead (Jan 6, 2005)

A poll shows the average American owns 1.7 guns:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/01/04/more_guns_than_you_thought.html


I myself own 10.3.


Regards,


Steve


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## michaeledward (Jan 6, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> I myself own 10.3


In my house, there are four humans, two dogs, *zero guns*. But you knew that


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 6, 2005)

What does the 0.3 gun do?

Wow.  We are really, really armed (on average).  Good grief.


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## someguy (Jan 6, 2005)

Yeah invading forces might have some problems with taking America down.  
Every one of my grandfathers grand children own at least one gun.


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## psi_radar (Jan 6, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> A poll shows the average American owns 1.7 guns:
> 
> http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/01/04/more_guns_than_you_thought.html
> 
> ...



Ha ha, I own about 11.5 if you count parts, so I'm helping to make up for the MichaelEdwards of America. I always loved G. Gordon Liddy's quote concerning gun ownership: "As a convicted felon, I am not permitted to own a handgun. However, Mrs. Liddy owns twenty-eight."


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## Cruentus (Jan 6, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> In my house, there are four humans, two dogs, *zero guns*. But you knew that



That's O.K. Mike. We'll take up a collection; If HHJH will donate his 0.3 of a gun, and psiradar will donate his 0.5, then all we need is 0.2 and you'll be all set...  :wavey:


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## shane23ss (Jan 6, 2005)

Is anyone here from England? When I was in Bosnia, I had a friend that was a Police Officer in England who was there with me. I use to go on the internet from time to time and look at guns. He was always blown away at how many guns were in the U.S. and how easy it was to get them. He said he nevered carried a gun his entire career before coming to Bosnia. Hard to imagine to me.


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## psi_radar (Jan 6, 2005)

shane23ss said:
			
		

> Is anyone here from England? When I was in Bosnia, I had a friend that was a Police Officer in England who was there with me. I use to go on the internet from time to time and look at guns. He was always blown away at how many guns were in the U.S. and how easy it was to get them. He said he nevered carried a gun his entire career before coming to Bosnia. Hard to imagine to me.



In my experience the brits and canadians are typically shocked at the availability and pervasiveness of firearms in the U.S. The English have their problems with knives and other violence, though. It's interesting how this  varies from country-to-country. I remember feeling a little strange the first time I was in Rome and the cops were carrying submachine guns, though I'm not sure the average citizen can own guns there. Are there any first-world countries with more lax firearms laws? We're certainly more enthusiastic about ownership than most! :mp5:


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 6, 2005)

The reason it came out as high as 1.7 per household with all the anti-gunners in the USA..


Is guys like me


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 6, 2005)

PSI.. Great Britian and Australia have suffered horrible increases in gun and non gun  violence after enacting firearms bans.. and it is said that today a full auto UZI submachine gun can be bought on London's streets for $200 to $300 US


Gun bans do not work, people yearn to be free and exercise their G-d given rights.


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## Cruentus (Jan 6, 2005)

I like the fact that we are more enthusiastic then most...

What people have trouble realizing is that the violent criminals in about all countries are not strangers to guns, even if the majority of the population doesn't own.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 6, 2005)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> I like the fact that we are more enthusiastic then most...
> 
> What people have trouble realizing is that the violent criminals in about all countries are not strangers to guns, even if the majority of the population doesn't own.


I only have 8ish.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 7, 2005)

Couldn't tell you how many off hand.  (Clue, you may have a problem when you start obtaining pairs of identical weapons for magazine, parts, and ammo interchange....)


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## hardheadjarhead (Jan 7, 2005)

AC_Pilot said:
			
		

> PSI.. Great Britian and Australia have suffered horrible increases in gun and non gun  violence after enacting firearms bans.. and it is said that today a full auto UZI submachine gun can be bought on London's streets for $200 to $300 US
> 
> 
> Gun bans do not work, people yearn to be free and exercise their G-d given rights.




Really?  The plane ticket to London is more than that.

If I go over there, I'll take orders for people here on MT before I go.  


Regards,


Steve


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 7, 2005)

*Sigh*

Still, I am concerned as to why we are so friggin' armed... and why people think it is seemingly the most important right in the Constitution.  (When it is about having an armed militia.)

Please, pig-pile on the hippy now.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 7, 2005)

not to pig-pile....but...

1) WE are the armed militia.  
2) The numbers quoted above are not heavily armed people; trust me.
3) A firearm is just a tool; the desire or willingness to unlawfully injure and kill our fellow humans has nothing to do with whether one has firearms.
4) Rember your American history....what was it that ignited the battles at Lexington and Concord?

(Buy a gun..come to the dark side.)


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## Ceicei (Jan 7, 2005)

More than 3....

 - Ceicei


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## Cryozombie (Jan 7, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> *Sigh*
> 
> Still, I am concerned as to why we are so friggin' armed... Please, pig-pile on the hippy now.


No pig pile here... just an observation...

Like good kitchen Cutlery, many guns serve specific purposes to shooters. 

For Example, the shotgun I own for Home Defense, is not exactly suited for hunting, and, on the flipside, my Shotgun that is designed for hunting will not work well for home-defense due to it's size...

And on the same token neither are ideally suited to my recreational sport shooting preferences the way my .22 rifle is.

So, you can see, just like you wouldnt cleave a side of beef with a Paring knife or slice the skin off a potato with a cleaver, having the right firearm for your "needs" is no different.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to hammer this nail into my wall with the handle of a screwdriver...


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## Ceicei (Jan 7, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> No pig pile here... just an observation...
> 
> Like good kitchen Cutlery, many guns serve specific purposes to shooters.
> 
> ...


 You explained this very eloquently!!!  My guns are also for different purposes.

 - Ceicei


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 7, 2005)

(laughing)

Chad, Techno, I *heart* you both for the non-pig-pile!

Perhaps it's studying Psychology for so long that leads me to think that most people are at least a *little* nuts, and I wouldn't want most people to be armed with more than a fork with a cork on the end of it.

But I also understand what you are saying.


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## modarnis (Jan 7, 2005)

On the well regulated militia...common misconception.  The phrase "the people" is important.  Why would the framers of the constitution mean the people as individuals in the first and fourth amendments, but not the second.  

People who commit crimes with guns should be punished accordingly.  Law abiding citizens should not be forced to give up rights for the misdeeds of the few.  As a prosecutor, competetive shooter, and ocassional hunter I have very strong views on gun crime.  Conversely, I realize that the right to keep and bear arms is just as important as my other rights in our constitutional framework

The framers went to great lengths to create checks and balances.  The people (as a well regulated militia) serve as one of those checks.  For some musings on Liberty and gun rights try reading  James Wasserman's The Slave's Shall Serve


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't own any gun but I've thought about gettin gone for home/self defense.  Problem is, I have a lot of kids and don't have the time for proper schooling for myself and not ready for the various safety vs accesibility thoughts

So..I learn Tae Kwon Do instead.  My foot won't accidentally go off through carelessness and I don't have to worry about my kids getting to it when I'm not looking


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## dearnis.com (Jan 7, 2005)

> Perhaps it's studying Psychology for so long that leads me to think that most people are at least a *little* nuts, and I wouldn't want most people to be armed with more than a fork with a cork on the end of it.



That will do it.  Seriously though, we make the most dangerous weapon in the civilian arsenal availible to anyone at age 16, few truly learn how to use them, there are no background checks, license requirements are a joke, and the penalties for violating them near non-existent.  They kill almost as many people each year as died in Vietnam, and people are getting  worse, not better about them.  



> try reading James Wasserman's The Slave's Shall Serve


  Strong second of this one.



> I don't own any gun but I've thought about gettin gone for home/self defense. Problem is, I have a lot of kids and don't have the time for proper schooling for myself and not ready for the various safety vs accesibility thoughts


  And by saying this you show that you understand what is needed to own a gun responsibly, and that you are not going to take that step right now; fair enough and good for you.  (But isn't it nice to know that you can if and when you choose!)


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## kelly keltner (Jan 7, 2005)

If someone more savy on searching things on the net wants to look it up. U.S. code title 10 section 311.  I believe covers the definition of militia.

kelly


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## Cryozombie (Jan 7, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> I wouldn't want most people to be armed with more than a fork with a cork on the end of it.


Hmmm.  

I could see that in the Constitution:

*"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear a Fork with a Cork on the end of it shall not be infringed."*


*Hehe.*


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 7, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Hmmm.
> 
> I could see that in the Constitution:
> 
> ...


lol - or, "...the right of the people who are deemed to have good impulse control and low psychoses, to keep and bear...."


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## Cryozombie (Jan 7, 2005)

kelly keltner said:
			
		

> If someone more savy on searching things on the net wants to look it up. U.S. code title 10 section 311. I believe covers the definition of militia.
> 
> kelly


*Section 311. Militia: composition and classes* 
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. 

(b) The classes of the militia are - (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 7, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> *Section 311. Militia: composition and classes*
> (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
> 
> (b) The classes of the militia are - (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


So I'm not part of the national militia, being a civilian woman?


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## Ceicei (Jan 7, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> So I'm not part of the national militia, being a civilian woman?


 Not officially of the "organized" militia, if you didn't join. But of the unorganized one, we are....

    - Ceicei


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## psi_radar (Jan 7, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> *Sigh*
> 
> Still, I am concerned as to why we are so friggin' armed... and why people think it is seemingly the most important right in the Constitution.  (When it is about having an armed militia.)
> 
> Please, pig-pile on the hippy now.



*Pig pile on the hippy* *pig pile on the hippy!*

Hey Fiesty!

Why are we so heavily armed? 

1) Because we CAN be. 

2) Guns are cooler than tattoos, less painful (well, most of the time), and twice as addictive. 

3) Fond memories of childhood bonding with siblings and parents. 

4) We ARE a more democratic nation when we have means to protect ourselves from oppression.

5) The challenge and reward of marksmanship.

6) It ties into our national self image as rugged outdoorsmen and individualists.

7) See #2.


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## shane23ss (Jan 7, 2005)

psi_radar said:
			
		

> *Pig pile on the hippy* *pig pile on the hippy!*
> 
> Hey Fiesty!
> 
> ...


I like this one.:ultracool


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## dearnis.com (Jan 7, 2005)

I guess no one is going to bite on my veiled call for automobile control.....


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## Feisty Mouse (Jan 7, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> I guess no one is going to bite on my veiled call for automobile control.....


Considering the one little old lady we have here in town who I think has been in 2-3 "fender benders" herself... possibly.

But then, of course, you're taking away transportation, which in our sprawled country is difficult unless you're in a city or planned community of a certain kind.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 7, 2005)

But we kill almost 50,000 people a year!!!  Cars are evil!!!!

(In all serious, we have danger on all sides in our lives, and some people are just not smar or responsible enough to be trusted with such things.  Of course I also firmly believ that were it not for 1) bigger, stronger vehicles 2) airbags  3) Radical advances in emergency medicine and trauma centers the numbers would be 4-6 times higher


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 7, 2005)

Why do we need weapons? 

To secure our personal safety and the freedoms we cherish. Protect them from enemies foreign and domestic that is. Here's what just two of the founders had to say:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. "

And:

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes we need them every hour. ." 

George Washington

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined. "  [NOTE: By force he meant ARMS]

Patrick Henry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Please read this explanation of what the amendment meant in period English, and the events surrounding the American revolution and the creation of the 2nd amendment, which is merely an acknowledgement of a G-d given natural right to self defense: http://www.gunowners.org/op9401.htm


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 7, 2005)

Well, I go to church...but where can I get my prairie wagon registered and gat a Concealed Plow license?


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## KenpoTex (Jan 8, 2005)

1.7 guns per person, that's roughly 476,000,000...God bless America


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 8, 2005)

_1.7 guns per person, that's roughly 476,000,000...God bless America
 ...
 "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." _

 On a Martial Arts forum?!?!  That's funny!


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## Escrima Demon (Jan 8, 2005)

My dad says its great we are so well armed > and that it protects the ability of stupid people who don't understand the intent of the US Constitutions founders to make stupid comments freely without the fear of oppression or arrest by the government.

But I just like to shoot targets with adult supervision.


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## AC_Pilot (Jan 8, 2005)

A plow or prairie wagon would more correctly fall into the "Towable field ordinance" category :apv: :uhyeah:

Actually the founders intended us to be armed on a parity with the military.. we must regain this lost right ASAP in order to keep pace with technology..


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