# Nitpicks/things that drive me crazy



## Lynne (May 30, 2007)

as a newbie.  I'm sure I'll settle down after awhile.  I'll be alright!  

Actually, these little things add to the mental overload of newbies.

Since we are not using Korean letters, why do we not use phonetic spellings?  Tul is pronounced Dool.  Why isn't it just spelled Dool?  Why is Dull Ryo not spelled Tolio?

Why can't the instructors pronounce the Korean terms the same?  One instructor pronounced Choon-Bee Jaseh like ChubaJosha and I couldn't figure out what in the world he was saying.   Luckily, my experienced classmates knew.  So, I did what they were doing.


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## zDom (May 30, 2007)

Lynne said:


> as a newbie.  I'm sure I'll settle down after awhile.  I'll be alright!
> 
> Actually, these little things add to the mental overload of newbies.
> 
> ...




I get the impression (and I'm sure someone will set me straight if I've got this wrong) that we get the variety in spelling because the sounds are BETWEEN.

As in,

between CH and J so it is spelled chaseh or jaseh , Joon Bi or choon bee, chon-ji and jon-ji;

between G and K so it is spelled both "chagi" and "chaki",;

between T and D so we see both tul and dool.

As English speakers, we will gravitate toward one or the other sounds, but really it is NEITHER, so neither "phoentic" spelling is more correct


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 30, 2007)

I'll echo both of you here. Phonologically speaking, Korean doesn't make a distinction between voiced consonants (b, d, g, z, dzh) and unvoiced consonants (p, t, k, s, tsh), so either way of Romanizing is technically correct, though there are some preferred spellings. I usually go for the one that's easier to yell.

As to differences between instructor-speak, I empathize completely. When I test at the Monroeville C.S. Kim (the main school) as opposed to taking class at my home dojang, I have a hard time understanding what the other instructors are saying about half the time. The problem is that, like army sergeants or coaches, they say the words quickly and loudly, so anything gets garbled. That, and very few American instructors really pronounce it with a genuine Korean accent, so even when Master Kim's giving instructions, I have a hard time following him.


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## MBuzzy (May 30, 2007)

That is exactly right.  The sounds are in between in most cases.  For example - a big one is L and R.  It is very hard to type.

Lynne - to answer your question, the reason we spell things the way we do is that the Koreans have the same problem.  If you drive around Korea, all of the signs are written in Hangul AND roman characters.  But it is very hard to romanize Hangul.  SO - Some of those REALLY REALLY smart linguistics people came up with standardized ways of Romanizing Hangul.  There were two major systems which were different and often confused.  Korea has now gone to the McCune-Reischauer system of romanization - and THAT is where the odd spellings come from.  Before this was standardized, there was A LOT of confusion, especially with Korean words being so close and the vowels being so difficult (mainly to pronounce by americans, i.e. words that sounded similar were being mixed up).

As for pronunciation - Unfortunately, this is a fact of life.  I live in Kunsan, ROK and when I go to Seoul, they criticize the way that I say Thank you in Korea.  So even in Korea, there are different dialects and pronunciations.  Much like in America, someone from Boston sounds COMPLETELY different than someone from California.  Its the same here, we just can't tell.  Just think how confusing it is for foreigners in the US trying to tell the difference between words in a Southern accent and a New England accent....


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## Lynne (May 31, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> I'll echo both of you here. Phonologically speaking, Korean doesn't make a distinction between voiced consonants (b, d, g, z, dzh) and unvoiced consonants (p, t, k, s, tsh), so either way of Romanizing is technically correct, though there are some preferred spellings. I usually go for the one that's easier to yell.
> 
> As to differences between instructor-speak, I empathize completely. When I test at the Monroeville C.S. Kim (the main school) as opposed to taking class at my home dojang, I have a hard time understanding what the other instructors are saying about half the time. The problem is that, like army sergeants or coaches, they say the words quickly and loudly, so anything gets garbled. That, and very few American instructors really pronounce it with a genuine Korean accent, so even when Master Kim's giving instructions, I have a hard time following him.


I have my first test at the end of June.  Master R will be administering that test most likely.  I had him as an instructor for the first time the other night.  The pronounciation he was using for attention and bow didn't sound at all like Charyat or Kenyay (Kyung-Ret?)  Anyway, I'm thinking, "Gee, what if I can't understand him during the test?  What if he says, "Lynne, tell me what XXXXXXX means."  I know my terminology!  But if I don't know what he's saying?


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## Lynne (May 31, 2007)

Thanks for answers, zDOM, JT, and MBuzzy.  

To me, it was important to know why the spellings were not phonetic.  I wish we could have an indepth class sometime at my Dojang to explain a bit more about Korean culture, language, and history.

As far as the dialects, I see what you are talking about.  I grew up in Virginia and we have at least 4 dialects if not more.  I grew up in the Tidewater area and I always thought my relatives who lived in the southwestern part of the state (Martinsville/Danville/Bassett) had such a "country" accent.  I'm sure they thought the same about me!

Additionally, one of our instructors is taking a Korean language class.  He definitely pronounces the terms differently.


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## Tez3 (May 31, 2007)

Er... I have problems sometimes with the English Americans use on this forum lol! I expect the same is true the other way tound too so it's no surprise we have problems with other languages when our 'common' language is confusing!
There is the same problem with Japanese, I had one instructor who would say 'Jam-ay' and another who said 'jimmy' for Yamae.
In Korean we have 'charyup' and 'kenyay' but to be honest we rarely use anything other than English. We aren't very traditional!


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 31, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I have my first test at the end of June.  Master R will be administering that test most likely.  I had him as an instructor for the first time the other night.  The pronounciation he was using for attention and bow didn't sound at all like Charyat or Kenyay (Kyung-Ret?)  Anyway, I'm thinking, "Gee, what if I can't understand him during the test?  What if he says, "Lynne, tell me what XXXXXXX means."  I know my terminology!  But if I don't know what he's saying?



Just hope the instructor is somewhat coherent. If you're only a white belt or yellow belt, though, they usually demonstrate (at least at C.S. Kim tests) what they mean, or at least say it in English. If you can't understand the guy, it's never wrong to ask, though.

Tang Soo!


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## Lynne (Jun 1, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Just hope the instructor is somewhat coherent. If you're only a white belt or yellow belt, though, they usually demonstrate (at least at C.S. Kim tests) what they mean, or at least say it in English. If you can't understand the guy, it's never wrong to ask, though.
> 
> Tang Soo!


During the tests, I've watched and listened.  Usually, he will say the command in both English and Korean, especially if it's something we don't hear often (like the Korean terms for wrist grips and one-step).

However, he will ask us what so and so means during the test.  Usually basic commands like charyat, kenyay, and so on.

I'm sure I just have the newbie nerves


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