# Wrist grabbing?



## Kissthecarpet (Feb 27, 2018)

I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 27, 2018)

your interpretation of the attack is wrong.


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## Kissthecarpet (Feb 27, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> your interpretation of the attack is wrong.


How?


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## lklawson (Feb 27, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> How?


Because most wrist grabs are predicated on the grabber's intention to "control" the person.  Often that is grabbing at a weapon bearing wrist but is also sometimes seen when someone is trying to dominant or exercise restraint and control. 

It's not usually applicable to a "street fight."  And as for your school yard fights, it doesn't happen there unless they're trying to restrain you and put your head in a toilet.

That said, I think that some people or arts over-emphasize the techniques to an out-sized importance not consistent with its representation in "real life."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.


The wrist grabbing techniques are drills for something that always happens, in grappling range.  Especially in the event that you have a weapon, knife or stick.  The concept of grabbing the wrists will almost always occur.  

In terms of Martial Arts,  If you come across a grappler then your wrists are in danger.  The wrists are a point of control that can eventually spell doom.  Wrist grab -> arm control-> throw.  Or whatever comes next

We don't see it often simply because most people aren't skilled enough to do a wrist grab as an offense and those who do train are less likely to be in a fight.


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## MI_martialist (Feb 27, 2018)

Maybe people train wrist grabs because they are not training wrist grabs.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

lklawson said:


> That said, I think that some people or arts over-emphasize the techniques to an out-sized importance not consistent with its representation in "real life."


 Agree.  It's almost always demonstrated and drilled in it's most simple concept where someone leans forward to grab a wrist. That context is always over-emphasized.  However, if the person is in withing grabbing range then the technique becomes more valuable,


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

MI_martialist said:


> Maybe people train wrist grabs because they are not training wrist grabs.


Agree.  I train wrist grabs as an offensive and defensive tool.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 27, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?.


You grab on your opponent's wrist. While he pays attention on your wrist grip, you let go your grip, and punch to his face.


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## JR 137 (Feb 27, 2018)

In addition to mostly what’s been said, my previous dojo did wrist grab defenses as a progression.  We first learned the defenses and follow ups with someone grabbing your wrist.  Then grabbing your sleeve at the wrist, sleeve at the elbow, elbow-ish area, lapels, etc.  Pretty soon it got to two people grabbing and pushing each other around and a response from either.  Similar to a judo match or even the start of a bar room brawl where guys are grabbing each other and trying to knock each other over.  It’s all about very close distance “in-fighting.”

If all you do is simple wrist grabs and escapes with a compliant partner, they’re not worth much.  If you have a progression of the grabbing and resistance, they’re quite valuable.  You’ve got to start somewhere, and a simple wrist grab is the easiest and most logical place to start.

It’s no different than those stereotypical one-step defenses when someone steps in with a lunge punch and holds it out there waiting for the counter.  They’re a great way to introduce the concept, but if it doesn’t progress sooner or not too much later, it’s little more than a waste of time.

Edit: When I was wrestling and coaching it, wrist control and wrist control escapes were very important during the neutral standing phase.  I taught a couple ways to counter wrist control that I learned later on in karate to my wrestlers.  The ones that actually used them did quite well with it.


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## wab25 (Feb 27, 2018)

Sometimes training a wrist grab escape is not all about freeing your wrist. The escape we teach first, doesn't look like most wrist escapes people have seen. However, it teaches a lot of other things: body alignment, power development, body unity, angles, body awareness, balance...

If I let the other guy get a good grip on my wrist, in a position he is strong in, then I can practice my escape slowly. By doing so, I must keep my structure correct, my balance correct, my technique correct throughout the whole process. Its a great way to work on all these other bits, even though the bad guy is unlikely, to grab and stay, while I escape.

That said, while grappling, with fully resisting opponents, I have used the principles and ideas taught, to escape many different holds. I even occasionally use very close variations of our kata versions of escapes, even though we may not be standing and static.


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 27, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> When I was wrestling and coaching it, wrist control and wrist control escapes were very important during the neutral standing phase.


any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain.  im really interested.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You grab on your opponent's wrist. While he pays attention on your wrist grip, you let go your grip, and punch to his face.


lol.. pretty sure it doesn't work that way.  Some people can grab your wrist and you won't get it back .


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain.  im really interested.


This is my nephew (in the White) wrestling.  Notice the multiple wrist grabs and escapes.


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## drop bear (Feb 27, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.




If your game includes striking and clinch work. Grabbing wrists should be part of that. And so freeing wrists should also be part of that.


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## drop bear (Feb 27, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You grab on your opponent's wrist. While he pays attention on your wrist grip, you let go your grip, and punch to his face.



You also have the shortest distance to his head.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 27, 2018)

I used to always feel strange when I started teaching wrist escapes to people.  I always get the "No one is going to grab me like that."  Eventually I had to change how I taught the escapes.  Now when I train the wrist escapes, I tell the students right from the beginning that the drill is to help us learn the basics and the mechanics of the escape.  Once we understand that, we can use those same mechanics against more common grabs.

When you think about it, the mechanics of effective grabbing is complex. The simple stuff just makes it easier to explain without going into various complex explanations.  What to do when some grabs the arm, the timing involved, where to grab, how to grab, what to do after the grab, which way to move the arm, do you bend the wrist vertically or horizontally.  An this is just involving a simple escape.  It doesn't include what do when the grab or counter fails.  I now like the simple drill more because it's less for me to explain and I don't have to waist time replying to doubts.

Just say.  "This drill will build a foundation that you'll need for more advanced understanding and application"


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 27, 2018)

drop bear said:


> You also have the shortest distance to his head.


The wrist grabbing strategy is called "tucking", as if you tuck your shirt inside your pants. You grab on your opponent's wrist. You then guide his arm away from your entering path. When you enter, that arm won't give you any trouble. It's a very important strategy used in wrestling.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 27, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.


When I teach those, I explain they're mostly about defending part of an attack. It's unlikely someone will come up on the street and grab your wrist, and nothing else.  They might grab and punch (or stab), so the wrist releases and the methods for taking advantage of that grip to break structure can be useful then. If you are grappling with someone (struggling with them), especially if there's something in your hand they want (your or their weapon), there can be some focus on grabbing arms.


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## Headhunter (Feb 28, 2018)

It's not about someone just grabbing your wrist and standing there. The attack is they grab your wrist to control you. A wrist grab/ gi grab is commonly used in judo. Also if you're already in a fight someone could grab your wrist to stop you hitting them.

Or it could be a case of your in a situation your trying to call the police and they grab your hand to stop you. There's loads of possibilities for it


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## donald1 (Feb 28, 2018)

I like wrist grabs. You can break the wrist, hyperextend the arm or nonviolently restrain an attacker. (The list goes on...)
However your average high school bully probably doesn't think about those things.


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## JR 137 (Feb 28, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain.  im really interested.


I haven’t seen much, nor have I really looked with a fine toothed comb.  If I come across something I’ll post it.

In a nutshell, it’s kind of like the video Jow Ga Wolf posted.  When they’re head to head, wrestlers like to grab wrists, especially if you have a less experienced opponent.  A few of the schools we wrestled liked to use a wrist grab, and get a standing single leg while holding the wrist.  Think of it as pulling downward fast and hard to the opponent’s knee to off-balance while grabbing the knee.  Other schools would use wrist control to tie up both arms to initiate a throw.  More like forearm control, but it started at the wrists.

Picture what they were doing in the video - the quick grabbing, circular movement, staying low, etc, and add keeping the wrist and doing what I mentioned.  Someone who’s not used to keeping their wrists from being grabbed and breaking the grabs before they’re a threat will be in trouble before they realize what’s going on.

Again, video would make it very clear.  I’ll try looking again


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## drop bear (Feb 28, 2018)

A wrist grab is also a precursor to a back take.

If you take their back and you have half a clue. You have probably won that fight.

I do a lot of one hand on the back of their head one hand on the wrist.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 28, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> any chance of a few Youtube vids to demonstrate or explain.  im really interested.


Here is a short clip to use wrist grab to achieve arm tucking.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> In addition to mostly what’s been said, my previous dojo did wrist grab defenses as a progression.  We first learned the defenses and follow ups with someone grabbing your wrist.  Then grabbing your sleeve at the wrist, sleeve at the elbow, elbow-ish area, lapels, etc.  Pretty soon it got to two people grabbing and pushing each other around and a response from either.  Similar to a judo match or even the start of a bar room brawl where guys are grabbing each other and trying to knock each other over.  It’s all about very close distance “in-fighting.”
> 
> If all you do is simple wrist grabs and escapes with a compliant partner, they’re not worth much.  If you have a progression of the grabbing and resistance, they’re quite valuable.  You’ve got to start somewhere, and a simple wrist grab is the easiest and most logical place to start.
> 
> ...



Wrist grab defenses are useful for beginning to learn basics.  In the Hapkido I studied, we pretty much went as above.  And don't forget that in past times, if an opponent had a sword and you didn't, you might want to grab his wrist to prevent him from drawing his weapon, and giving you an opportunity to employ another technique against him.

But grappling imho, needs to have a progression from the simpler to the more complicated.  Along the way you begin to develop muscle memory and tactile memory to aid in future techniques.


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## drop bear (Mar 1, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I haven’t seen much, nor have I really looked with a fine toothed comb.  If I come across something I’ll post it.
> 
> In a nutshell, it’s kind of like the video Jow Ga Wolf posted.  When they’re head to head, wrestlers like to grab wrists, especially if you have a less experienced opponent.  A few of the schools we wrestled liked to use a wrist grab, and get a standing single leg while holding the wrist.  Think of it as pulling downward fast and hard to the opponent’s knee to off-balance while grabbing the knee.  Other schools would use wrist control to tie up both arms to initiate a throw.  More like forearm control, but it started at the wrists.
> 
> ...


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## Mountie (Mar 2, 2018)

I've been wondering about this myself.  Intellectually, I think of someone grabbing a woman's arm and hauling her away or trying to stop a smaller opponent from punching by grabbing their wrists, but in all my experience I've never seen it.  

I wonder how much if it is related to aikido/ju jitsu being about weapon defense so they grabbed wrists.  Unarmed practitioners got used to opponents grabbing their wrists so they started defending against that.  But now we train primarily for unarmed opponents so the game changed.  Blocks are tighter to defend against punches and kicks instead of knives and swords.  

But that's just theory and guesswork. Anyone been grabbed by the wrist in an actual street fight or attack?  Or even heard of it happening?


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## JR 137 (Mar 2, 2018)

drop bear said:


>


That’s it right there.  The first minute or so especially.

@hoshin1600 if you watch Drop Bear’s video, you’ll see him grabbing the wrist and pulling it down with him during the first minute or so.  The wrist practically touches the opponent’s knee.  We’d do a single leg grab at the point; either staying on our feet or going to our knees.  Whichever one used would be a preference thing, but the wrist grab and pulling off-balance and/or set up the opponent nicely when done right. It’s got to be hard and fast.

Getting out of the grab easily negates a lot of that.  And many people will get a solid grip on the wrist and hold it.  Some people look for a two-on-one wrist grab.  Some people like to get the wrist and keep it to either do an arm drag or tie up the arm for a throw.  Whatever they’re looking to do with it, if you can’t get the wrist free quickly, you’re pretty much at their mercy if they know what they’re doing.  A lot of stuff starts with a wrist grab in standing wrestling.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 22, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.



They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 22, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.


The reason that someone grabs your arm because he want to guide your arm away from his moving path. When he moves in, your arm won't be in the way.

If your opponent doesn't have similar plan like this, I then agree it's useless move.


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## MI_martialist (Jul 23, 2018)

Wrist grabs are like the alphabet that lead to words, sentences, paragraphs, essays, books, novels, tomes, encyclopedias.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 23, 2018)

The issue is how will you grab on your opponent's wrist.

1. Right hand grab on your opponent's right arm? or
2. Right hand grab on your opponent's left arm?

When you grab, do you have your "tiger mouth" (space between thumb and index finger) facing to

- yourself? or
- your opponent?


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## pdg (Jul 23, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.



Rubbish.

I've seen plenty of instances where a push/shove is a prelude to a strike.

I've also seen plenty where a grab (including but not exclusive to the wrist) is used to set up a strike, or to be the control technique in itself.

In fact, there was recently shown on the localish news CCTV footage of an assailant grabbing someone's wrist, manipulating their arm behind their back for control, reaching into their pocket and removing their wallet, then pushing them face first into a wall before walking away.


Yeah, pointless to train how to deal with a push or grab


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 23, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.


In a review of knife attacks, 71% of the attacks started with an off-side hand attack prior to the strong-side knife. Those included grips. Do you prefer to defend against a knife while he is controlling your other arm, or after you've freed it?


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## frank raud (Jul 23, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> They're pretty useless. In most cases, people strike. Grabbing or pushing is more of an aggressive display. People don't actually mean to hurt you when they grab you although it could be an indicator of an attack. That's why it's pretty useless to train with such methods.


Yes, the possibility of fouling someone's draw of a weapon is pretty useless. The possibility of someone grabbing you to hang on to either punch or stab you never happens. I mean look at hockey fights or prison stabbings. Where I live, hockey is the most common sport. Guess how most people(not trained in the martial arts) fight?


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## pdg (Jul 23, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> In most cases, people strike.



Hang on, I thought most people shot at you from a moving car while stabbing you with a knife attached to a baseball bat with a length of pipe in their other hand?

Edit: I forgot that everything should be dipped in acid or other chemical so they can throw that at you.

With a hammer.


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## marques (Jul 23, 2018)

Kissthecarpet said:


> I always wondered why people practice "grab my wrist" techniques? Are they of any use?. The times when I was a young lad on school the bullies never pulled such a move, and in street attacks I have seen, they didn't happen like that, also check some security camera stuff, most attacks don't happen like this. Thanks in advance for your insights.


At first, I tend to agree. Then... it may happen in different contexts. Like between people that know each other, indoors, and one is trying to show his dominant power to the other.

Other scenario (or an exemple), ‘bullies’ have grabbed my stuff and closed the hand (and smiled a lot). Then I got my stuff back using about the same skill needed to manipulate grabs. At schools I couldn’t punch (without being suspended) and, as joints manipulation (and other tricks) were not making them angry, pain compliance worked all the time. With ‘peace’.

My main issue with “grab my wrist” techniques is that most of them will lead to an escalation of violence, independently if they could release themselves at or not. Or so badly trained that there is no release at all. At the end I agree with you again, too much effort (if you want to learn the smart techniques) for little advantage. Unless you enjoy it. 

Training is very much for the ones that enjoy it, rather for the ones that really need it...


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## marques (Jul 23, 2018)

And (some of) you say online learning doesn’t matter? I have found more knowledge in half these answers (next half later) than in many trial classes I have done or in some ‘instructors’ I have met. Sometimes reading and watching really helps.


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## now disabled (Jul 23, 2018)

frank raud said:


> Yes, the possibility of fouling someone's draw of a weapon is pretty useless. The possibility of someone grabbing you to hang on to either punch or stab you never happens. I mean look at hockey fights or prison stabbings. Where I live, hockey is the most common sport. Guess how most people(not trained in the martial arts) fight?



Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab. 

Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion. 

And I have seen many instances where a person grabs another and then punches etc so saying that never happens I cannot agree with sorry 

Hockey fights are a very specific type of fight imo and well looking at all the modern data the "minders" suffer and some have died through it but hey learn to fight hockey style just remember that the other dude might kick ya in the street where he will not on the ice


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 23, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab.
> 
> Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the sarcasm in Frank's post, ND.


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## now disabled (Jul 23, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I think you missed the sarcasm in Frank's post, ND.



Sorry I drank to much red bull today lol and I went to a training session lol


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## frank raud (Jul 23, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab.
> 
> Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion.
> 
> ...


The reason to grab and punch is both to keep the other guy stationary(as much as possible) and to off balance him. On skates the intention may not be to take the other guy to the ice (the referees break up fights quickly when they hit the ice), but when you are off balance it is harder to counter. That's why the grab for the bottom of the jersey, guy ends up at least partially bent over, limited vision and no balance. Same reason they grab the back of the neck in Muay Thai, makes it harder to counter than standing up straight and free.


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## now disabled (Jul 23, 2018)

frank raud said:


> The reason to grab and punch is both to keep the other guy stationary(as much as possible) and to off balance him. On skates the intention may not be to take the other guy to the ice (the referees break up fights quickly when they hit the ice), but when you are off balance it is harder to counter. That's why the grab for the bottom of the jersey, guy ends up at least partially bent over, limited vision and no balance. Same reason they grab the back of the neck in Muay Thai, makes it harder to counter than standing up straight and free.



I agree with the how in hockey fights lol


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## pdg (Jul 23, 2018)

marques said:


> And (some of) you say online learning doesn’t matter? I have found more knowledge in half these answers (next half later) than in many trial classes I have done or in some ‘instructors’ I have met. Sometimes reading and watching really helps.



As far as I'm aware, the general consensus about online learning is that it has definite value as a supplementary resource.

Taken in isolation, not so much value.

You (and I) have learned stuff because we know somewhat what to do with the information.


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## drop bear (Jul 23, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Umm I have seen many fights in Hockey and they do grab.
> 
> Fouling someones weapon draw goes back to the days when swords were carried (I mean primarily Japan) so some arts still contain that. I am sure that some of the striking arts will have a sword block (I don't mean the sword lol I mean the hands or the hilt ) so is that useless too? can they not be adapted and thought of in a more modern way? I'd say yes but just my opinion.
> 
> ...



Rugby love a grab.


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