# Is A.R.K. a fraud???



## A.R.K. (Aug 12, 2003)

Alright, this is the thread that I mentioned I would begin in another forum.  The purpose of this thread is not to have a pissing context.  Instead it is to have direct, though polite conversation, about the topic.  Either there is a problem with me, my rank, my training, my experience, my peer association, my behaviour or there is not.  If there is then the readership of this board have a right to know.  I should be exposed and outed before everyone.  If I am cheating students or fellow MA's then everyone should know.  However, if I'm clean then certain cryptic inudenos need to cease.

I am specifically addressing Mr. Kenneth Ku in this regard.  Sir, If you have a grievance against me, or evidence of fraud then I am asking you to present it here for all to see.  

I await your response so that we can discuss this matter in a mature fashion and reach a resolution.

:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Aug 12, 2003)

Let me think about this for 2 seconds  ........................................................1.........................................................2.........UM!






NO !!! 

:soapbox:


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## Kempojujutsu (Aug 12, 2003)

Is ARK a fraud? I have only talked to him by email and a couple of phone calls. So I really don't know him that well. I am not one of his students saying he's a great guy BAH BAH BAh. Any way is he willing to help other I would say yes. He has study several different types of arts. A lot of people have. He has taken several Martial arts and created  an Art he calls his own American Realistic Karate. So did Bruce Lee, The Gracies, Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis and I am sure we could say several more people. If he is a fraud so is everyone else I mentioned. Does he charge great amounts to test for ranking NO. I have heard ofsome people getting loans so they can test for certain ranks. Rank is just a piece of paper saying you are such this rank, just like a belt is. If ARK is a fraud so is about 98% of the people on this board. 
Bob:asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 12, 2003)

He's always seemed very knowledgeable on the board and on chat...

...but I never believe _anything_ about _anyone_ until I've been dropped to the mat by that person!


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *He's always seemed very knowledgeable on the board and on chat...
> 
> ...but I never believe anything about anyone until I've been dropped to the mat by that person! *




Arni,

I have never dropped you on the mat, yet I think we both have a mutual understanding and abilities and respect of the other.

Is this because we have meet and talked? Is this because we can commuicate our thoughts and the other understands?


(* Now back to your Regular Schedule Thread *)

I cannot tell if the Gentlemen who uses the call name or TAG A.R.K. is a fruad or not. I wil reserve that judgement until we meet or until I have sufficient data to make a statement.

With Respect to all who train in Martial Arts


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## arnisador (Aug 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Arni,
> 
> I have never dropped you on the mat, yet I think we both have a mutual understanding and abilities and respect of the other.*



You're right! I meant "dropped" to be understood a bit more generally, of course, but we haven't really gone at each other. I've seen you in action however and also heard you explain techniques so I know you have skills and knowledge! (Mr. Parsons really knows his stuff, folks.)

In arnis I feel a bit better judging by watching as I know the art reasonably well--though at the WMAA Camp I gave (as you know) a side black belt test and that's what I like, getting to bang with the person myself. With other arts, when I see people doing locks, throws, takedowns, etc., I need to have them do it for me before I buy that they have it! Mr. Hartman and I have many stories about rpessure point techniques that worked on the instructor's students but inexplicably failed on the two of us.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *. . . Mr. Hartman and I have many stories about rpessure point techniques that worked on the instructor's students but inexplicably failed on the two of us. *



HMMM, I have some of my own also .

I agree if you hit me hard enough in the base of the skull I will pass out.  

:asian:


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## Shuri-te (Aug 13, 2003)

Arnisador said


> With other arts, when I see people doing locks, throws, takedowns, etc., I need to have them do it for me before I buy that they have it! Mr. Hartman and I have many stories about pressure point techniques that worked on the instructor's students but inexplicably failed on the two of us.



I cant agree more. So many locking and throwing techniques are practiced in the dojo against cooperative partners, and often with partners that are the same size or smaller. Try them on bigger partners (attackers are likely to be bigger), especially uncooperative bigger partners, and the techniques often fail. For example, many techniques might catch an attacking arm, which might work against a full power thrust, but not a jab. And many wrist locks dont work well against an opponent with very strong wrists. Has anyone ever tried some basic locks against a middle-aged stone mason or bricklayer. If he outweighs you by thirty or more pounds, many can fail. This is not to say they are impossible to do. There are masters who have also developed remarkable wrist strength, and can use their bodies effectively in these techniques. And softening up techniques such as a groin kick, can help set up these techniques as well.   

Just last week I taught some locking techniques to a class that had a 5'9" 225lb power lifter. Not only were his forearms massive, but I came to realize that his years of lifting resulted in wrists that did not rotate or bend nearly as far as those of a normal person. Of the techniques I taught, about a third worked well on him, a third worked passably, and one third had no chance, especially if he was resisting.  

I think that in the whole issue of "frauds" at least regarding "frauds" on MT, we have several definitions. On this thread we are at what many might consider the true issue, perhaps the only meaningful issue. Is the person in question a serious, long-term student of the art that has achieved the knowledge and skill level one would expect from his years of study?

Arnisador has refrained from judgment here since he has not had the opportunity to assess A.R.K.'s skill in person. From this, I interpret his remarks to mean that a fraud would be someone who claims a certain skill level, but cant use techniques effectively against uncooperative attackers. One would expect a student with 30 years in the art to have a broad repertoire of effective combinations and the only way to really judge is to be on the receiving end.

It is my view that this kind of proof is a very high bar for many practitioners. It is relatively easy to test with locks and throws. But what about all the striking/kicking in martial arts systems that might be equally as ineffective as the locks and throws that we have seen fail. 

For example, many reputable karateka, some with 20+ years in traditional arts, have the bizarre notion that a single strike to the solar plexus is the appropriate defense against a large aggressive attacker. This is what they have been taught, and what they teach to gullible students who havent a prayer of making this work. Against a large aggressive attacker, the solar plexus can be very difficult to hit, and therefore such a fighting strategy can be a good way to get seriously hurt. Does this mean these serious students of the arts are frauds?  If so, there are many, many frauds out there. 

I think the real issue here gets back to using this board to challenge posters as frauds. Many of us see the merit of warning others against wasting their time *training* with newbie 10th dans and assorted charlatans. We go to a bad seminar, or train in a McDojo and we like to share the bad experience with others so that they can better spend their time. 

But we all know that MT is an Internet forum, and therefore it is so easy for posters to flame here simply because they like flaming, regardless of first-hand experience in a school. MT strives for friendly discussion. But in the name of exposing frauds some posters have been pretty liberal with their notion of term friendly.

I think the issue that A.R.K raises is this: How does a poster achieve closure after being challenged as being a fraud? How does he get to the point where he can come here and share, without the endless character assaults? If the true test for being a fraud comes down to skill, how does a poster prove that he is skilled in his art? 

One method I think useful is to put together a videotape of representative portions of your art and send it to unbiased moderators for their own evaluation. I agree with Arnisador that it is not compelling proof that every technique works. But it is my opinion that most skilled martial artists would be able to evaluate many aspects of the level of skill, even if it were in a completely different art. 

I also recommend that a poster consider not just demonstrating his art, but also use the video to teach his art. It is my opinion that there is no better way for a reviewer to learn how well a person knows his art than to get good instruction in it. To me this is what it all really comes down to. Senior rank should be reserved for those that make a contribution to the art. They dont just practice the art. They develop it and share it. This is where video can be used effectively. If a poster is very skilled in an effective art, and also can teach it well, then some on this board just might argue that endless accusations of fraud are unwarranted.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 13, 2003)

Just a comment here:
Our official policy is to -not- evaluate someones qualifications. Video can be edited, documents forged or tweaked, etc. We do not have the resources, time or experience to know if someones doing "tsukikage" correctly.  Having trained with enough kenpoists, I can say with full certainty that even the same technique, done with the same general movements is different from school to school and organization to organization.

See here for the official policy on these things:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=8708


Personally, I agree with Arni... until I get on the mat with someone, or see them move in person, its all just paper. 

My suggestion would be for ARK and KennethKu to both attend one of the upcoming MT training camps and have a friendly work out.  (Note, this is best done if both attend the same camp.  ) This way, if the area for disagreement is technical, they can clear the air that way.  If its based on philophy, perhaps they can talk it to a polite resolution.


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## Disco (Aug 13, 2003)

I doubt that either would bring a resolution to the problem. As Shuri-te and Arnisador have pointed out, not all techniques will work. So a video only opens the door for more debate if someone is already convinced the other way.

As for two people who have, shall we say, no affection for each other. Putting them together to show and tell skill level most likely would erupt into a full fledged volcano. As pointed out, to make some techniques work, a "love tap" is required to have them refocus. The escalation threshhold when doing this is very very low. It's a nice thought to get people together, but I don't think it would be productive in this case. I would greatly like to be wrong with my assumption, because we are dealing with men who seem to have embraced martial arts as a way of life.

As for the subject question, is ARK a fraud? I consider myself a friend and a training partner of ARK. So I will not voice any response, because in this case I am biased. If I did make a response, it would not be deemed valid anyway because of said bias.  But I will leave you with this one thought. It's one thing to be proficient on the mats. It's totally another to be proficient in the world. Look at ARK's background (detention deputy). Surely people should realize that is a hostile enviorment. Would'nt it be a prudent assumption, that during all the years working in that setting, practical application was accomplished. Much more so than the vast majority of people, that even though they train have never had to try to use their training in a real life altercation.
Thanks for the opportunity to express my opinion.
:asian:


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## Shuri-te (Aug 13, 2003)

Kaith Rustaz said:



> My suggestion would be for ARK and KennethKu to both attend one of the upcoming MT training camps and have a friendly work out.



If the solution to A.R.K.s dilemma is to spend hundreds of dollars on plane fare to Illinois, then it is, in my judgment, no solution at all. In many cases, travel can be far more expensive since MT reaches practitioners around the globe. It would be thousands of dollars for our Australian contributors to come here to prove themselves to doubting posters. 

I applaud MT for doing a much better job recently of tamping down the fraud busting. Now it is a much better place to come and post. A.R.K. has been a significant poster. But he still has to put up with the seemingly endless sniping. Maybe now that one poster, just back from a suspension, has had his opportunity to post his friendly comments, this whole thing will subside. Given the history of this smear, there is some reason for doubt. 

I am not a mod, and cannot speak for one, nor for MT policy. But if a major MT poster claiming 25+ years in the arts requested I review an instructional video at no cost, I would not hesitate to take him up on it and post an honest thumbs up or down. (25 years of training well spent or not well spent.)

Regarding whether one has the ability to judge whether some technique is done correctly is beside the point. A good boxer can tell a boxer just by his stance. So too with a baseball player. A single swing of the bat or throw of the ball is very revealing. At the summer MT seminar, I didnt have to know one iota of Systema to see that Arthur had extraordinary ability. The same with TShadowchaser and his Sikaran art. A half hours introduction was far more than was needed.  

If someone were to send me a videotape of 50 or so techniques with instruction on usage, I wouldnt have to be knowledgeable on many of the techniques to be able to evaluate whether that person had skill. Just watching their movements, their reactions, their footwork and their body mechanics would tell me much that was important. And this is not all that different from judging others in tournaments. It is done all the time. Many seasoned martial artists have plenty of experience judging other artists from different systems, often judging a kata or form they have never seen before. 

I understand the need for certain policies, and most I am sure have good rationales behind them. I am curious as to the rationale for this policy of prohibiting the sending of an instructional martial arts video to a mod or two. Has there been much demand for this in the past? If not, why would it be an issue. If the goal is to separate the charlatans and newbie 10th dans from the serious longterm students, video can be an effective tool. There is good reason that there is a huge industry in instructional video for martial arts. Video has its uses.


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## arnisador (Aug 13, 2003)

I agree with *Shuri-te* to a fair extent as I certainly can see a kata being done and appreciate it and stance is also a dead giveaway in many cases. One can certainly make a reasonable judgment...but, feeling is believing.


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## Cruentus (Aug 13, 2003)

unless I meet with someone and train, I do not know for sure.

I have heard the arguement that "If someone had a PhD, they would be considered reputable, so why would you question someone with a blackbelt?" The two comparisons don't equate. There is a set and understood standard in acadamia, the standard varies to much in martial arts. Keep in mind that some of the best Masters in the world have "No Rank."

So if someone has multiple black belts and made up there own system, then good for them, but it doesn't impress me. What will impress me is if they have the skill to back up their credentials.

As for ARK, I haven't read anything that sounds questionable from him yet. I'll admit that I am naturally skeptical about people who make there own system, but I am not against it. I just have to see on the training floor, is all. 

Also, I don't lurk around much in other forums outside FMA, Modern Arnis, and Knife. I am not familiar enough with the styles ARK trained in, or his linage to know the difference, or be able to question, either. 

So, I don't know if ARK is a "Fraud," but I don't care. He doesn't appear to be ripping people off. His students here have said good things. And he hasn't said anything that has raised questions with me. Besides, he seems like a good enough guy to me.

nuff' said.


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## A.R.K. (Aug 13, 2003)

My thanks to those that have offered kind words.

To be fair, Mr. Ku to the best of my knowledge has never raised an issue of whether or not I have skill.  I believe the issue concerns my training in a particular discipline and the rank achieved.  

I really don't know what to offer in this regard other than what I have.  I started my journey some thirty one years ago in the MA's.  That discipline was the first in under took training in.  What rank could one reasonably obtain in three decades?  The answer of course will vary widely based on many factors.   I wonder though if there would have been any discussion at all had it only been a Shodan?  Disciplines differ widely, but at some point in most upward progression is merely a matter of time in grade.  Good or bad this seems to be a common standard.

At any rate, I really don't see it being an issue any longer however based on previous posts regarding this discipline.  Any other rankings can easily be verified to anyone with any interest.  

So as mentioned, perhaps this is merely a personality conflict between Mr. Ku and myself.  If I have done something to offend him then this is an excellent opportuntiy for him to come forward and list the grevience.  If justifiable, an apology can be offered if appropriate.  If something else, then polite discourse is the best solution to avoid future unpleasantries.  

I don't believe Mr. Ku has had the opportunity as yet to view this thread so I will patiently await his response.

Thank you again to all for the kind posts.

 :asian:


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## KennethKu (Aug 18, 2003)

Sorry for not responding sooner. As I have previously explained, I only come here once a week, at most. 

Here's a tranpose from another thread.


*The question whether David Schultz is a fraud or not, has long been settled. All the evidence and facts have been presented and rebutted and counter rebutted. There are people (who have since left MT in disgust) who have researched Mr. Schultz's background and shared their findings, publicly and privately.

I personally have zero interest in Mr Schultz's art or whatever he represents.  Hence I would not care to spend one second of my time to research Mr Schultz's background.  However, the people who have done the research, are well respected former members of MT.  Their conclusion is good enough for me.    

Not surprisingly, Mr Schultz and his cohorts would think otherwise.  

Those who would like to find out what the conclusion of the research into Mr. Schultz's background, can PM me or email me. I would direct you to the former members and you can communicate with them directly. (Reply would take about a week.  )   I apologize for not been able to devote more time at MT answering this issue.  Fortunately, those people (former members who have done the research) are real martial artists who DO NOT see a snake in the grass and just turn the other way.    

In this way, we can also spare MT the "beating the dead horse" nuisance.   *

BTW, it is neither a personality conflict issue nor anything personal.   Most of us who know the issues  KNOW what there are, I can assure you that Schultz and his cohorts KNOW.


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## KennethKu (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *Let me think about this for 2 seconds  ........................................................1.........................................................2.........UM!
> 
> NO !!!
> ...



LOL   

I bet you felt the same about that crooked TKD instructor of yours too, DAC.   lol


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## KennethKu (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *Let me think about this for 2 seconds  ........................................................1.........................................................2.........UM!
> 
> NO !!!
> ...



 LMAO!!     And how many seconds did it take you to figure out your TKD instructor is a crook?  10 years?   LOL


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## KennethKu (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _.....  I should be exposed and outed before everyone.  ........



Why don't you get the Admin to invite RSK and the Yilli people back and TRY THIS????

Why did you and your cohorts go crying to Admin nonstop back then?

If you TRULY mean what you posted here, if you really have the guts and the balls to stand behind your words, then go ahead and bring back RuyShikan, Martial Artist, the Yilli People.

Or, are you simply here to act tough and talk brave, knowing that they NO LONGER care to post here to expose you?


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## KennethKu (Aug 18, 2003)

Hmmmm.... I bet there will be complain to the Admin that my posts are NOT friendly, huh?  :shrug:


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## Rick Tsubota (Aug 18, 2003)

why is this thread allowed?
the same people start this thread that complained about beating the dead horse so many times and now want to do more of the same on the same subject.
It's stupid, no?
Maybe they feel safe now?
Maybe they think everyone forgot about them/him claiming this and that. 


Kenneth I think you are right.
We can bring back Ryushikan, and Yili people but I doubt they will respond to something so dumb like this thread. 
Reading junk like this thread is a waste of good training time.


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## paihequan (Aug 18, 2003)

For whatever it's worth I really think that this thread has little positive value.

Regardless of that posted, there will remain a few who regard ARK as a fraud. There will be some you do not share this view and others who are undecided.

I think that we would be more productive if we discussed the arts not the personalities within.


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## Cruentus (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *why is this thread allowed?
> the same people start this thread that complained about beating the dead horse so many times and now want to do more of the same on the same subject.
> It's stupid, no?
> ...



maybe this is junk. Maybe not.

What I am most curious about is #1 does anyone have proof (logical or on paper) that ARK is a "fraud." #2 Is Ark Hurting anyone by his behavior?

What is dangerous about fraudulent behavior in M.A. is that it often hurts people on many levels. People either have a false sense of security with their training, thinking they can defend themselves or that their techniques work when they don't. Or, they spend time and $$ on something that is "fake" and they are discouraged.

Fraud can be wrong on many levels. If ARK is a fraud I want to know about it. If ARK is hurting people, then people should know. If ARK is not hurting anyone, and not a fraud, then clowns who are just trying to be destructive need to leave him alone.

I have no formulated opinion yet, really. I don't know who the clown is for sure here.

If this thread seperates wrong from right, then it is worth it. If not, then I agree that it is garbage.


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## arnisador (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *It's stupid, no? *



Yes.


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## Master of Blades (Aug 19, 2003)

Reminds me of the good old days this does........And Kenneth, that was LOW!


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## A.R.K. (Aug 19, 2003)

Sigh...well lets take a look.



> There are people (who have since left MT in disgust) who have researched Mr. Schultz's background and shared their findings, publicly and privately.



Actually there is really only one former poster who claimed to have researched my background in reference to the discipline of Pangainoon.  Others offered commentary, but not from actual research.  



> I personally have zero interest in Mr Schultz's art or whatever he represents. Hence I would not care to spend one second of my time to research Mr Schultz's background.



Yet you will continue to offer negative remarks despite the fact you have no firsthand knowledge.  I would question the motive or agenda behind this.



> However, the people who have done the research, are well respected former members of MT. Their conclusion is good enough for me.



Here we have the real crux of the matter.  And the word 'person' should be substituted for your word 'people'.  I would have to question your choice of individuals to 'look up to' Ken as being poor.  Let's take a look why;

First, this particular former member claimed to have called the World Headquaters for Pangainoon in Okinawa.  The organization that he claimed governed the discipline.  He claimed that they never heard of me and therefore I could not be of Dan rank in this discipline.  On the surface this surely looks bad for me.  However, if one does a bit of investingation and common sense thinking it is merely a smoke screen and a falsification of the facts.  

1.  Pangainoon is a Chinese discipline.  An Okinawan organization could not legitimatley claim to govern it.  A point that was brought to light time and again but seem to fall on deaf ears.  And there was good reason for it.

2.  There is a multitude of discipline off-shoots.  A quick review on the internet will reveal Pangainoon, Pangainoon-Ryu, Pangainoon Jitsu, and even a Pangainoon Kempo.  And of course there are a ton of Pangainoon/Uechi Ryu sites on the net.  Repeated inquires from this poster about this alleged organization and which discipline or off-shoot it claimed to govern were met with silence.  And there was a good reason for this as well, in fact the same reason.

3.  This organization does not exist anywhere in Okinawa or anywhere on this planet.  It is a figment of the individuals imagination.  In other words...he made the whole thing up in order to try to cast a shadow of iligitimacy on me.  I have searched the internet, and I invite ANYONE to do the same for any type of Pangainoon HQ's in Okinawa...there is NONE!  I've been looking for years for an organization in which to formally register my ranking in Pangainoon.  But with as fragmented as the discipline is I never had success.  So I asked repeatedly for the website, email address, postal address, phone number, for surely the WORLD HQ's would have some way to contact them. 

But how can one contact that which only exists in the mind of someone bent on hurting them?  The answer of course is you cannot.  This was unfortunately a deliberate falsification and attempt to slander.  And generally an unsuccessful one as anyone can do a search on the net.  However, for someone with an agenda that is willing to turn a blind eye, who is unwilling to 'spend one second' researching it offers the perfect bit of dirt to use again and again in the future hopes of casting a shadow.

Second, this poster time and again claimed I was a fraud because I was in error as to the number of kata within the system.  Surely someone holding a Dan would know the correct number of kata.  So again this poster attempted to cast a shadow to further his agenda against me.  He even sited a passage in a book as evidence.  However, when I pointed out my years of training in this discipline, they were readily dismissed.  So I posted quite a few resources from books to internet sites to journals that all verified that the number of kata were EXACTLY as I had posted.  I posted links to the sites and the very page number on the books and journals for all to research.  

It came as no suprise however when this individual quickly changed the subject to another rant along different lines.  

So it boils down to A.R.K. is a fraud based on his non-membership in an organization that doesn't exist and his CORRECT posting of the number of katas in a discipline he started formal training in decades ago.  And this is the individual you wish to blindly follow?  Again, I question your choice of heros.  I suggest you either think that through again or do your own research.



> Those who would like to find out what the conclusion of the research into Mr. Schultz's background, can PM me or email me. I would direct you to the former members and you can communicate with them directly.



I would HIGHLY recommend this as well.  And then determine for yourself whether it is highly detailed research that proves wrong doing...or is merely unsupported agenda driven garbage.   

Ken, I also find it odd that you don't have time to spend on MT...



> I apologize for not been able to devote more time at MT answering this issue.



Yet you had the time to respond FIVE TIMES IN A ROW on this thread, each of which included a snide comment, or several.



> Why don't you get the Admin to invite RSK and the Yilli people back



Why don't you?  Nobody kicked them out, though the one I referenced above [giving no name since he's not here] was suspended for his behavior at least twice.



> Why did you and your cohorts go crying to Admin nonstop back then?



Nonstop?  I think I reported one thread  in a six month period, and it wasn't even regarding the above mentioned people.  




> If you TRULY mean what you posted here, if you really have the guts and the balls to stand behind your words, then go ahead and bring back RuyShikan, Martial Artist, the Yilli People.



I cannot 'bring' anyone back, it is their choice.  And I occasionally talk with the 'yili' people on another board.  As for the other individual I referenced above, the last communication I had with him was an email I sent to him.  In this email I referenced some interesting and ACTUAL research I did on HIS background.  Including claims he made in teaching Army CID personel.  Including his discipline and his role in it.  Including his GM etc.  All of wish I made invitation to discuss with him at length should he choose to enter a public forum.  This was a couple of months ago and interestingly enough...your hero has never answered.  Given the sheer volume of hate mail he sent me previously I thought it quite odd that he abruptly stopped when I informed him of my discovery of certain 'details' or inconsistencies in his posts.  



> Hmmmm.... I bet there will be complain to the Admin that my posts are NOT friendly, huh?



You may inquire of them as to whether of not I have lodged a complaint.  The answer will be 'no'.  You see Ken, the whole point to my starting this thread was to flush you out for who and what you are.  You say I'm a fraud...yet offer nothing of substance.  You claim others have offered evidence...yet I have shown their falsifications, unsupported allegations and their agenda.  More specifically...h i s agenda.  One who's bandwagon you have chosen to jump on, to your own neglect.  Perhaps your recent suspention didn't sink in Ken?

My training is sound.  My skill is sound.  My experience is sound.  My credentials, both LEO and martial are sound.  Your tiresome and repeated attacks are without basis or evidence.  Therefore your weak and agenda-driven remarks are exposed for what they truly are.  You are to be dismissed.

If anyone here on this board has ANY question for me they may feel welcome to ask me publically or privately.   You see, I have nothing to hide.

Thank you again all for participating.

:asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 19, 2003)

Please, let's not argue with people who are no longer here.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## A.R.K. (Aug 19, 2003)

That is why I didn't use anyone's name or screen name.  It was the point of the discussion, not the name or names that were important.  

Ken came back from suspension swinging so I simply asked for reasons.  None were forthcoming, nor did I have any illusions that any were going to come.  

I believe I've demonstated his 'lack' sufficiently to show his agenda.  Given his distain for me, had he actually had evidence or knew of any he would surely have come into this thread to slam dunk me once and for all.  No snide remards, no inuendos.  Just cold, hard, in-your-face facts to show the world.

He didn't have any.  Nuff said.

:asian:


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## A.R.K. (Aug 19, 2003)

Ken, in your responses to DAC about his TKD instructor..



> And how many seconds did it take you to figure out your TKD instructor is a crook? 10 years? LOL



You really need to put more thought into your posts rather than being snide.  DAC was about seven years old when he started TKD training Ken.  How many seven year olds know about the politics that permeate the world of martial arts?  How many could understand this if they were award of it?  

DAC is now an adult with twenty years of training and Dan rankings in different disciplines.  He is also a high liability professional with more practical real world experience in four years of duty than most will gain in a life time.  I would say his viewpoint carries considerable weight.

:asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 19, 2003)

This thread has abbout played itslef out.  
Offer evidence that is hard core proof or find another subject to post on 
we all have had enough of name calling and suggested bad papers. If you do not have proof drop it:deadhorse 
lets drop the he is right or wrong because so and so said so
 no more:iws: 
andleave the people no longer with us out of it
thank you
tshadowchaser


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## DAC..florida (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *LMAO!!     And how many seconds did it take you to figure out your TKD instructor is a crook?  10 years?   LOL *



I WAS ONLY 7 YEARS OLD WHEN I STARTED!


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## DAC..florida (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *LOL
> 
> I bet you felt the same about that crooked TKD instructor of yours too, DAC.   lol     *


 That was a low blow, maybe I was too young or to trusting but I learned my lesson! 


Why do you feel the need to use others misfortune to your advantage "NOT COOL"

Just for the record I have never whined or complained to any moderators about anyone! 


You need help!


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 19, 2003)

*Admin Note:*

Ya know.... I don't know what to say.

Thats ok though.

I think this thread speaks for itself.

I remember the last time I was in a similar situation.  Of course, I was 12, and it was a schoolyard.  But still, I guess it takes a lot of training and studying of things to again reach the level of a child.

Ya know folks, that whole "be more childlike" bit?

This wasn't what they meant.


This topic is done.
Thread is locked.

Enough.


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