# Reverse Blade Sword



## trueaspirer

I am considering getting a reverse bladed sword. It is both decent price and decent quality, though neither top-of-the-line nor a cheap rip-off.
First of all, should I get it.
Second, should a go for a more expensive one in the hopes that is will also be better quality?


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## Flying Crane

What is a Reverse Bladed Sword?  In which art(s) is it used?  Do you have training, or are you in a position to get training for it?  Is there a link to the sword, so we can see what it is and get a sense of the quality?


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## trueaspirer

It is used in Japanese arts. I have limited training with it. I don't have a link yet, but I will try to get one soon.
Thanks!


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## Chris deMonch

What Japanese arts use the sakabatou?  I've never known it to exist outside of Watsuki's story.


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## pgsmith

> What is a Reverse Bladed Sword? In which art(s) is it used? Do you have training, or are you in a position to get training for it? Is there a link to the sword, so we can see what it is and get a sense of the quality?


The reverse bladed sword is from a popular Japanese anime. It has no historical equivalent and cannot actually be used in any sword art, therefore there is no way to get training. 


> First of all, should I get it.


If it is something that you really like, go for it. 


> Second, should a go for a more expensive one in the hopes that is will also be better quality?


I would recommend going for the cheaper one if you like the looks of it. Quality is pretty much irrelevant since it can only be used for decoration anyway.


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## OUMoose

Rurouni Kenshin fan in our midst it seems.


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## trueaspirer

Ah, you guys got me, I'm a Rurouni Kenshi fan. :uhyeah:
However, in all seriousness, I've definitely heard of it being used in real Japanese arts. I don't have much information on it at the moment, but I am doing research because it interests me so...


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## Xue Sheng

OUMoose said:
			
		

> Rurouni Kenshin fan in our midst it seems.


 
You mean Kenshin Himura...the Batosai.......never heard of him.


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## Flying Crane

trueaspirer said:
			
		

> Ah, you guys got me, I'm a Rurouni Kenshi fan. :uhyeah:
> However, in all seriousness, I've definitely heard of it being used in real Japanese arts. I don't have much information on it at the moment, but I am doing research because it interests me so...


 

well, if you decide to get it, I always advocate quality over saving a few bucks.  If you can afford it, spend the extra money to get something that you have reason to believe is better quality.  Even if it just ends up sitting on your wall as a decoration, what would you rather have, something that is real, or something that you know is a piece of junk, even if it looks pretty?  Personally, I'd go with the real one.  Otherwise it is just cheap, junky artwork, and it always looks tacky.


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## pgsmith

> However, in all seriousness, I've definitely heard of it being used in real Japanese arts. I don't have much information on it at the moment, but I am doing research because it interests me so...


I'm sorry, but it is strictly a product of the author's imagination. There are only two types of very rare Japanese swords that come anywhere close to the reverse bladed sword in the anime. Both types are tanto (knives less that 12 inches) with a backwards curve. One is serrated and was used by fisherman, the other is more conventional and was used for removing heads on the battlefield. If someone told you that there is really an art that uses something as silly as a reverse bladed sword, they are either clueless or lying to you. I've been involved in the Japanese sword arts for a number of years now, and I can honestly tell you that a reverse bladed sword makes absolutely *no* sense in the real world. 

  I do agree with Michael though in that you don't want to put something tacky and crappy looking on your wall.


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## Swordlady

pgsmith said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but it is strictly a product of the author's imagination. There are only two types of very rare Japanese swords that come anywhere close to the reverse bladed sword in the anime. Both types are tanto (knives less that 12 inches) with a backwards curve. One is serrated and was used by fisherman, the other is more conventional and was used for removing heads on the battlefield. If someone told you that there is really an art that uses something as silly as a reverse bladed sword, they are either clueless or lying to you. I've been involved in the Japanese sword arts for a number of years now, and I can honestly tell you that a reverse bladed sword makes absolutely *no* sense in the real world.
> 
> I do agree with Michael though in that you don't want to put something tacky and crappy looking on your wall.



What Paul just said.  If you want a reverse blade katana anyway, it can and has been done by at least one swordmaker.  Rick Barrett made one for a customer; it was on his website for a while.  It wasn't cheap; if I remember correctly, that sword was about $5000.

This one eBay seller named paartist86 sold reverse blade katana in the past.  You cold give them a try, if you like.  From what I understand, paartist's katana are "servicable", but the fittings are much to be desired.  I personally don't care for paartist's swords.


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## Bob Hubbard

Reverse blade swords a neat, and I've considered getting one myself, being an anime fan, and the idea interested me.
But, the others are right, it's a fantasy blade only, and any that you get should only decorate your wall, and not be used.


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## monkey

Look up mastercutlery.com they have all kinds of Katanas-reverse blades-epie-& more.There price is resonable & I imagine most place like Asian world ect get from them As it is mainly for dealers or schools.


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## trueaspirer

Thanks, guys, for your advice and info. I could have sworn there was a real art, but I believe you that there isnt. 
-*sighs*-


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## Swordlady

There's nothing wrong with owning a fantasy sword - just as long as you know that it is based on a made-up world.  And don't bring it to the dojo.


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## Blindside

I'm assuming you are looking for something like the sword that comes out of the anime, but there are several examples of "reverse bladed swords" out there, they just don't come from Japan.  Take a look at some of the longer Khukri, ginunting, or yataghan.  

Lamont


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## pgsmith

However, while those blades are inward curving to varying degrees, they are *not* "reverse bladed." As a comparison, here's a picture of a Turkish yatagan ...






Here's a sword-length kukhri ...






Please take note of the tip curvature of both of these swords.

Now here is a picture of the "reverse bladed katana" from the Kenshin anime ...


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## Blindside

pgsmith said:
			
		

> However, while those blades are inward curving to varying degrees, they are *not* "reverse bladed." As a comparison, here's a picture of a Turkish yatagan ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a sword-length kukhri ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please take note of the tip curvature of both of these swords.
> 
> Now here is a picture of the "reverse bladed katana" from the Kenshin anime ...


 
Whoops, you are correct sir!

Lamont


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## Walter Wong

trueaspirer said:
			
		

> It is used in Japanese arts. I have limited training with it. I don't have a link yet, but I will try to get one soon.
> Thanks!


You are completely wrong.  Reverse blade swords don't exist or used in Japanese sword arts because there is no combative value of a reverse blade sword in the context of legitimate Japanese swordsmanship.

Reverse blade sword is strictly a fantasy weapon of the Kenshin anime.  To have one for real is more for novelty reasons and not for training in a classical Japanese sword art.


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## Edmund BlackAdder

The reverse blade katana is a work of fantasy, however, there have been other blades that did have the "edge" on the inside. I saw a Chinese sword once that looked like an inside-out scimitar, person who showed it to me swore it was authentic. It was carbon steel, not stainless, but looked, hand made. Haven't seen anthing like it since, so it might have been something someone slapped together to wow a tourist.   I've seen some short blades that had a reverse edge on them too.

But, the Kenshin sword, cool as it is, is fantasy. Looks good on the wall though.


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## karlravioli

pgsmith said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but it is strictly a product of the author's imagination. There are only two types of very rare Japanese swords that come anywhere close to the reverse bladed sword in the anime. Both types are tanto (knives less that 12 inches) with a backwards curve. One is serrated and was used by fisherman, the other is more conventional and was used for removing heads on the battlefield. If someone told you that there is really an art that uses something as silly as a reverse bladed sword, they are either clueless or lying to you. I've been involved in the Japanese sword arts for a number of years now, and I can honestly tell you that a reverse bladed sword makes absolutely *no* sense in the real world.
> 
> I do agree with Michael though in that you don't want to put something tacky and crappy looking on your wall.




lol, man, u guys r so negative.  a reverse blade sword DOES make sense in the real world.  what if u get jumped on the street and for some reason you have a reverse blade sword on you (maybe cuz you're bringing it over to a freinds house just to show them, or u just cuz u think it looks kewl :ultracool) and this is your only means of defense.  don't u think that it'd b better to have a REVERSE blade sword instead of a regular one so that if u  DO have to fight the guy/s with it, u wont' cut him in half and get sent to jail, instead u'll probably just break an arm or a leg or something which might save you a life sentance and won't get you in half as much trouble.  i think someone should invent/create some sort of fighting style for the reverse blade sword strictly for self defence pourpouses only, so you can defend yourself, without killin the ohter guy.


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## Swordlady

karlravioli said:
			
		

> lol, man, u guys r so negative.  a reverse blade sword DOES make sense in the real world.  what if u get jumped on the street and for some reason you have a reverse blade sword on you (maybe cuz you're bringing it over to a freinds house just to show them, or u just cuz u think it looks kewl :ultracool) and this is your only means of defense.  don't u think that it'd b better to have a REVERSE blade sword instead of a regular one so that if u  DO have to fight the guy/s with it, u wont' cut him in half and get sent to jail, instead u'll probably just break an arm or a leg or something which might save you a life sentance and won't get you in half as much trouble.  i think someone should invent/create some sort of fighting style for the reverse blade sword strictly for self defence pourpouses only, so you can defend yourself, without killin the ohter guy.



Hi Karl, welcome to MT.    How about posting an introduction thread in the Meet and Greet forum?  What is your martial art background?

Another thing: Can you please use proper punctuation and grammar?  That will make your posts easier to read.  Thanks!


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## Cryozombie

karlravioli said:
			
		

> lol, man, u guys r so negative. a reverse blade sword DOES make sense in the real world. what if u get jumped on the street and for some reason you have a reverse blade sword on you (maybe cuz you're bringing it over to a freinds house just to show them, or u just cuz u think it looks kewl :ultracool) and this is your only means of defense. don't u think that it'd b better to have a REVERSE blade sword instead of a regular one so that if u DO have to fight the guy/s with it, u wont' cut him in half and get sent to jail, instead u'll probably just break an arm or a leg or something which might save you a life sentance and won't get you in half as much trouble. i think someone should invent/create some sort of fighting style for the reverse blade sword strictly for self defence pourpouses only, so you can defend yourself, without killin the ohter guy.


 
And maybe, I can scare him with my reverse chuck nunchucks, ya know, two chains connected by a stick.  And maybe that will only tangle him up so I dont go to jail for assault... oh wait... assault is assault regardless isnt it? And the idea of reverse chuck nunchucks is stupid.  

And people need to quit mistaking anime for Budo.

PERIOD.


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## Flying Crane

karlravioli said:
			
		

> lol, man, u guys r so negative. a reverse blade sword DOES make sense in the real world. what if u get jumped on the street and for some reason you have a reverse blade sword on you (maybe cuz you're bringing it over to a freinds house just to show them, or u just cuz u think it looks kewl :ultracool) and this is your only means of defense. don't u think that it'd b better to have a REVERSE blade sword instead of a regular one so that if u DO have to fight the guy/s with it, u wont' cut him in half and get sent to jail, instead u'll probably just break an arm or a leg or something which might save you a life sentance and won't get you in half as much trouble. i think someone should invent/create some sort of fighting style for the reverse blade sword strictly for self defence pourpouses only, so you can defend yourself, without killin the ohter guy.


 
I can only hope this post is a joke.

On the off hand that it is not a joke: if you want to defend yourself without killing your opponent, an edged weapon of any kind is a poor choice.  Once you start dealing with cutting and stabbing techniques, it becomes far too easy to sever an artery which results in death a few seconds later.  If you want a non-lethal weapon for defense, try a blunt object like a club, or some pepperspray.

The notion that you might just "happen" to be carrying a reverse bladed sword when you are attacked on the street is just about as funny as it gets.


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## Cryozombie

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> The notion that you might just "happen" to be carrying a reverse bladed sword when you are attacked on the street is just about as funny as it gets.


 
No man, I ONLY attack people who are carrying large obvious weapons, as opposed to people who appear helpless and unable to defend themselves... cuz thats just how I roll.

OMFG WHT 4 LZR


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## pstarr

The katana has the cutting edge on the outside because it's aerodynamically more efficient for cutting.  The same is true for a Chinese broadsword or for any curved blade.

Yes, there are a few Chinese blade that are curved but double-edged but these are weapons that require very specialized training.

I would think that a katana with a reverse cutting edge would likely break if you struck with much power-


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## karlravioli

just an idea guys 

even if it was a stupid post, it's just an opinion, u dont' have to be so mean about it  even if it is totally wrong


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## karlravioli

and could you really sever an artery with a reverse blade hitting with the blunt side?!  man that would suck


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## Flying Crane

karlravioli said:
			
		

> just an idea guys
> 
> even if it was a stupid post, it's just an opinion, u dont' have to be so mean about it  even if it is totally wrong


 
Don't worry about it, we're just pokin' fun.  Pretty far-fetched idea, tho


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## Flying Crane

karlravioli said:
			
		

> and could you really sever an artery with a reverse blade hitting with the blunt side?! man that would suck


 
Hitting with the blunt side, probably not.  I was assuming we were talking about a sharp cutting edge, regardless of the shape of the blade.


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## Swordlady

karlravioli said:
			
		

> just an idea guys
> 
> even if it was a stupid post, it's just an opinion, u dont' have to be so mean about it  even if it is totally wrong



Just as long as you understand that reverse blade katana have NO practical use whatsoever.  If you really don't want to cut someone open, use a blunt object for self-defense, not any kind of sword or knife.  But remember that even bokken can break bones or _kill_ your opponent.


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## Xue Sheng

I just read through teh post and I beleive my question has been answered, but I will ask it anyway.

Was this a real weapon actually used during the time of the Samurai or is it something that was popped up since Rurouni Kenshin (the Batt&#333;sai) stuff?


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## Swordlady

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I just read through teh post and I beleive my question has been answered, but I will ask it anyway.
> 
> Was this a real weapon actually used during the time of the Samurai or is it something that was popped up since Rurouni Kenshin (the Batt&#333;sai) stuff?



No, the reverse-blade katana was not used by the samurai.

The katana acquires its curvature (sori) by a clay coating on the blade, followed by a quench in oil or some other liquid.  The thicker end of the blade would naturally form the inside of the curve.  One would have to somehow alter the quenching process to get the thinner cutting edge to curve inward.  I know that Rick Barrett once made a reverse blade katana for a customer, but this was solely a fantasy piece.

I never really understood the concept of a reverse-blade katana.  If Kenshin didn't want to kill anymore, why even carry a sword?  He could have carried a bokken, though he would have to be careful not to kill someone by blunt trauma to the head.


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## Xue Sheng

Swordlady said:
			
		

> No, the reverse-blade katana was not used by the samurai.
> 
> The katana acquires its curvature (sori) by a clay coating on the blade, followed by a quench in oil or some other liquid. The thicker end of the blade would naturally form the inside of the curve. One would have to somehow alter the quenching process to get the thinner cutting edge to curve inward. I know that Rick Barrett once made a reverse blade katana for a customer, but this was solely a fantasy piece.
> 
> I never really understood the concept of a reverse-blade katana. If Kenshin didn't want to kill anymore, why even carry a sword? He could have carried a bokken, though he would have to be careful not to kill someone by blunt trauma to the head.


 
As I suspected, thank you.

Didn't Miyamoto Musashi start using a bokken at one point and also killed a few with said bokken as well?


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## Bob Hubbard

I heard he used a boat oar once....


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## Swordlady

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> I heard he used a boat oar once....



Yup.  Mushashi used a bokken carved out of a boat oar to kill rival samurai Sasaki Kojiro.  I believe this is a pic of the bokken in question: http://www.museum.pref.kumamoto.jp/musashi/gallary/images/0504_l.jpg

I got the link from SFI.  The website with the pic is in Japanese, so I dunno...


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## Xue Sheng

Swordlady said:
			
		

> Yup. Mushashi used a bokken carved out of a boat oar to kill rival samurai Sasaki Kojiro. I believe this is a pic of the bokken in question: http://www.museum.pref.kumamoto.jp/musashi/gallary/images/0504_l.jpg
> 
> I got the link from SFI. The website with the pic is in Japanese, so I dunno...


 
Boat oar and Bokken all in one.

Cool, Thank you


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## karlravioli

o, alright.   hey, i found this reverse blade sword on ebay (i got it coming in the mail) if anyone's interested, this guy sells a lot of other swords to.  the reverse blade swrod is handmade, full tang, "battle ready" and the sharp side is supposed to be razor sharp.  and the overall price, including shipping and handling is about $100.00.     here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Forged-Sakabato...hZ004QQcategoryZ43338QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem


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## karlravioli

Swordlady said:
			
		

> Yup.  Mushashi used a bokken carved out of a boat oar to kill rival samurai Sasaki Kojiro.  I believe this is a pic of the bokken in question: http://www.museum.pref.kumamoto.jp/musashi/gallary/images/0504_l.jpg
> 
> I got the link from SFI.  The website with the pic is in Japanese, so I dunno...






wouldn't that thing get kinda slippery though


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## Blindside

karlravioli said:
			
		

> o, alright. hey, i found this reverse blade sword on ebay (i got it coming in the mail) if anyone's interested, this guy sells a lot of other swords to. the reverse blade swrod is handmade, full tang, "battle ready" and the sharp side is supposed to be razor sharp. and the overall price, including shipping and handling is about $100.00. here's the link:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Forged-Sakabatou-Reverse-Blade-Katana-Sword-Kenshin_W0QQitemZ140010019184QQihZ004QQcategoryZ43338QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem


 
It certainly inspires confidence in the "battle ready" nature of the blade when the ebay ad itself reads:
*As such, a "reversed blade katana" should be considered a DISPLAY/FANTASY sword... We do not recommend cutting anything harder than a pool noodle with this type of blade.*


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## Swordlady

karlravioli said:
			
		

> wouldn't that thing get kinda slippery though



Probably, but from what I remember, Musashi killed his rival within a few seconds, with a single fatal blow.  Duels between rival samurai tended to be VERY quick affairs.  One - or both - parties would be lying on the ground seconds after the duel started.


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## Swordlady

karlravioli said:
			
		

> o, alright.   hey, i found this reverse blade sword on ebay (i got it coming in the mail) if anyone's interested, this guy sells a lot of other swords to.  the reverse blade swrod is handmade, full tang, "battle ready" and the sharp side is supposed to be razor sharp.  and the overall price, including shipping and handling is about $100.00.     here's the link:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Forged-Sakabatou-Reverse-Blade-Katana-Sword-Kenshin_W0QQitemZ140010019184QQihZ004QQcategoryZ43338QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem



All I have to say is that you will get what you pay for.  A ~$100 sword is most likely not going to be *that* functional.  Even the auction said that this sword is more for "display" than actual use.

Rick Barrett, a well-known bladesmith, made a reverse blade katana a while ago.  That sword cost $6500.  I can't find any pictures of that sword, since Rick took it down from his website.


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## karlravioli

you're probably right, but $6500 sounds kinda overpriced :/


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## pgsmith

Personally, $6.50 sounds kinda overpriced for a reverse bladed sword. However, desire is in the eye of the beholder, so if that's what you enjoy, go for it. I have to interject though that getting something like a reverse bladed katana with a razor sharp edge sounds like a serious accident waiting to happen to me. I would suggest getting one without an edge on it.

  Just my opinion.


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## Risto Rautiainen

What about the thracian rhomphia. Here's more info: http://www.thrace.0catch.com/rhomphia.htm Wait for the ads to fade away and you'll see the links on the left side of the page.


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## Swordlady

Risto Rautiainen said:
			
		

> What about the thracian rhomphia. Here's more info: http://www.thrace.0catch.com/rhomphia.htm Wait for the ads to fade away and you'll see the links on the left side of the page.



I gather from the MyArmoury post that the rhomphia is more related to the falx.  In any case, it isn't Japanese.

The second link just leads to a music site.


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## Risto Rautiainen

Yeah, I know it isn't japanese, but I just wanted to show that the idea of a "reverse blade" is not totally fantasy. Of course the cross section and everything is totally different from japanese blades, but this thing has really been used. The second link works just fine for me.​


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## Swordlady

Risto Rautiainen said:
			
		

> Yeah, I know it isn't japanese, but I just wanted to show that the idea of a "reverse blade" is not totally fantasy. Of course the cross section and everything is totally different from japanese blades, but this thing has really been used. The second link works just fine for me.
> ​


 
But the rhomphia and the falx aren't really classified as "reverse blades".  Those blades happen to be sharpened inside the curve, like...say, a sickle or khukri.  Those blades are specifically constructed that way for a certain purpose.

Japanese katana, on the other hand, were always made with the outside of the curve sharpened.  It was never intended to be sharpened in the inside curve.  That is what makes the "reverse blade katana" (a la Kenshin) a _fantasy_ piece, as opposed to the rhomphia and falx - which are actual historic weapons.


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## Xue Sheng

Swordlady said:
			
		

> But the rhomphia and the falx aren't really classified as "reverse blades". Those blades happen to be sharpened inside the curve, like...say, a sickle or khukri. Those blades are specifically constructed that way for a certain purpose.
> 
> Japanese katana, on the other hand, were always made with the outside of the curve sharpened. It was never intended to be sharpened in the inside curve. That is what makes the "reverse blade katana" (a la Kenshin) a _fantasy_ piece, as opposed to the rhomphia and falx - which are actual historic weapons.


 
I am not a sword aficionado and I had to look these up but to be sure but I was fairly certain that neither a falx nor rhomphaia were of Japanese origin and a Katana is

Falx is a Latin word originally meaning sickle it is a weapon of the Thracians and Dacians, and later a siege hook used by the Romans. 

The Rhomphaia was a close combat bladed weapon used by the Thracians as early as 400 B.C. It was a variant of the Dacian Falx. 

The katana is the Japanese backsword or longsword of the type specifically in use after the 1400s

So I do not think that a Falx or a Rhomphaia are valid proof of a reverse blade katana


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## Swordlady

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I am not a sword aficionado and I had to look these up but to be sure but I was fairly certain that neither a falx nor rhomphaia were of Japanese origin and a Katana is
> 
> Falx is a Latin word originally meaning sickle it is a weapon of the Thracians and Dacians, and later a siege hook used by the Romans.
> 
> The Rhomphaia was a close combat bladed weapon used by the Thracians as early as 400 B.C. It was a variant of the Dacian Falx.
> 
> The katana is the Japanese backsword or longsword of the type specifically in use after the 1400s
> 
> So I do not think that a Falx or a Rhomphaia are valid proof of a reverse blade katana



That was my point exactly.  The rhomphia and falx are actual historic weapons, designed with the inside curve sharpened.  The Japanese katana was never meant to have the back end of the blade sharpened.


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## Risto Rautiainen

Okay, what I had here is a misunderstanding of vocabulary as english is not my mother tongue. As here the 'reverse' seems to mean that you can 'reverse' the blades' direction. I thought this was an argument of wether weapons existed that had the edge on the inside of the curvature. My bad.


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## jasonb

Please describe a reverse bladed sword?

Is the blade sharp on top or is the curve the opposite way than normal?


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## Swordlady

The reverse-blade sword the original poster is talking about is called a "sakabato" - the sword of a popular anime character, Rurouni Kenshin.  The back (mune) of the blade is sharpened instead of the front.  The sakabato is strictly a fantasy piece, and has no historical basis.


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## Xue Sheng

So does this mean the guy that is going to teach me Gokus Kameamea move isnt real either!?!?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist


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## Swordlady

Xue Sheng said:


> So does this mean the guy that is going to teach me Gokus Kameamea move isnt real either!?!?!?



I was also bummed out that I can never throw fireballs like Ryu and Ken.


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## Fu_Bag

Xue Sheng said:


> So does this mean the guy that is going to teach me Gokus Kameamea move isnt real either!?!?!?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist


 
Damn!!  And I just ordered the complete Kameamea DVD training set!!!  Man, I'm really bummed now.  Guess I'll go cut the lawn with my upside down lawn mower now.....


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