# ITF to Kukkiwon WTF Transfer



## T43 (Sep 25, 2010)

Can I transfer my 3rd Dan from ITF to Kukkiwon?


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## Archtkd (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think so, and why would you want to do that?


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## terryl965 (Sep 26, 2010)

No not really, you would need to learn a whole new set of poomsae, but I am sure for the right amount of money somebody would.


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## T43 (Sep 26, 2010)

Well, I've been training WTF for the last year and know 20 new Poomsae, new one steps etc...it's a 5 day a week thing for me.  an ITF school wasn't available where I live...and I like our instructor/master...he's the salt of the earth and reminds me everyday of what is important in life.  Regardless, I want my 4th degree and am concerned that I can't get it in the Kukkiwon, because I'm not recognized as a 1st degree there yet.

Does anyone have any knowledge of what actually takes place to request a Skip Dan?

Thanks,


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## terryl965 (Sep 26, 2010)

Yes but the problem you have is you can only skip one dan. So if you are going to get your first than the most you can do is second. Then four years later you can test for your third and skip to your fourth. Like I said their is a bigger difference than just poomsae's, now tell me this where are you located at and who is your G.M.? I only ask because if he is connected right with the right amount of money anything is possible, I have sen people pay up to twenty thousand to get their fourth because they did not have even their first.

I really am not trying to be an *** but you do relize that the WTF does not even rank people, they are just the governing body over the rules for Olympic and sport poomsae? The KKW does all the certfication. One last thing why is it so important for your fourth in a style you have only been doing for a year and believe me going five days a week for a year does not automatically make you a fourth my friend. 

At my school it takes 4-5 years or more to get to first dan and another 2-3 for second and another 3-5 for third and another 4-6 to get to fourth  so the minium to get to fourth with me is 13 years. If you ahve a great instructor than learn what he has to offer and stop worrying about your rank, the arts are so more than rank anyway.:asian:


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## T43 (Sep 26, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Yes but the problem you have is you can only skip one dan. So if you are going to get your first than the most you can do is second. Then four years later you can test for your third and skip to your fourth. Like I said their is a bigger difference than just poomsae's, now tell me this where are you located at and who is your G.M.? I only ask because if he is connected right with the right amount of money anything is possible, I have sen people pay up to twenty thousand to get their fourth because they did not have even their first.
> 
> I really am not trying to be an *** but you do relize that the WTF does not even rank people, they are just the governing body over the rules for Olympic and sport poomsae? The KKW does all the certfication. One last thing why is it so important for your fourth in a style you have only been doing for a year and believe me going five days a week for a year does not automatically make you a fourth my friend.
> 
> At my school it takes 4-5 years or more to get to first dan and another 2-3 for second and another 3-5 for third and another 4-6 to get to fourth  so the minium to get to fourth with me is 13 years. If you ahve a great instructor than learn what he has to offer and stop worrying about your rank, the arts are so more than rank anyway.:asian:



Hi Terry,

I've been practicing the Martial Arts for 30 years.  My rank was never important to me.  My belt had started turning white all over again.  I was accomplished in both Hyung, Sparring and Board Breaking.  I never quit the Martial Arts, and had watched people that would start out ranking me over the years.  It was OK.  It wasn't what the Arts were to me.  It was a way of life.  About 10 years ago, my life changed dramatically, thanks to Landmark Education.  I will be sharing my life and the lessons I have learned from all of my teachers over the years with my students soon.  In order to be able to promote my own students, rank and my Dan is important.  It's why it is now important to me.  I appreciate your concern and I know it's genuine, I can tell you're a true Martial Artist.  Thank-you.

With regard to this is something I've only been studying for a year.  Yes, I'm aware of the relationship between the WTF and the Kukkiwon.  You're probably aware of the relationship between the ITF and WTF.  They are both Tae Kwon Do and the similarities between the two far outweigh the differences.  As well, I suspect that the differences are mostly made up of a poor telephone game.  You know the telephone game right?

Peace to you and thanks for all that you do here on the forum.  I can tell that sharing information (teaching) is important to you.

TY


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## terryl965 (Sep 26, 2010)

T43 I can appreciate you and what you are saying believe me I am an old ITF guy as well.  I currently practice both side because it makes me complete. I do understand that in all TKD'ers eye we are brothers in the art of TKD but the side that has always brothered me was the certification against the two sides. One would think cross ranking someone with great condentials would be an easy process but the G.M.'s in charge always makes it tough on the people tring. I do wish you all the well in getting everything you desire and at anytime I can help p.m. me and I will see if I can help or put yopu with the right people.


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## troubleenuf (Sep 26, 2010)

Actually you can only skip dan one time in your career.  So you could skip to 2nd but not again in 4 years to 4th.
  That said however they might do something if you sent in copies of your ITF ranks and asked what they would do.... that or know someone in the right places.



terryl965 said:


> Yes but the problem you have is you can only skip one dan. So if you are going to get your first than the most you can do is second. Then four years later you can test for your third and skip to your fourth. Like I said their is a bigger difference than just poomsae's, now tell me this where are you located at and who is your G.M.? I only ask because if he is connected right with the right amount of money anything is possible, I have sen people pay up to twenty thousand to get their fourth because they did not have even their first.
> 
> I really am not trying to be an *** but you do relize that the WTF does not even rank people, they are just the governing body over the rules for Olympic and sport poomsae? The KKW does all the certfication. One last thing why is it so important for your fourth in a style you have only been doing for a year and believe me going five days a week for a year does not automatically make you a fourth my friend.
> 
> At my school it takes 4-5 years or more to get to first dan and another 2-3 for second and another 3-5 for third and another 4-6 to get to fourth  so the minium to get to fourth with me is 13 years. If you ahve a great instructor than learn what he has to offer and stop worrying about your rank, the arts are so more than rank anyway.:asian:


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## dancingalone (Sep 26, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> One would think cross ranking someone with great condentials would be an easy process but the G.M.'s in charge always makes it tough on the people tring.



Should it be easy to do?  Isn't KKW TKD substantially different from ITF TKD at this point in time?  We only have to compare Tae Geuk Il Jang to Chon-Ji in a few youtube videos of master performances to know that's true.

It's like a Shorin-ryu karate guy wanting to gain equivalent rank in Shotokan karate.  While I suppose it is possible to do so with some hard training, I don't think it's an easy thing to shed yourself of the habits gained in one style for another, and even so it's not a 1 for 1 mapping where someone with a 3rd black's knowledge has automatic entry to the same level in the new style.

It takes time to mature in your new material and way of doing things, even if you were an expert into another method previously.  I would expect significant barriers for articulation of rank between ITF/KKW on a technical level even without getting into the politics.

Now at the risk of trolling, let me ask for fun:  easier to switch from KKW to ITF or the other way around?  Or the same?


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## terryl965 (Sep 26, 2010)

I would say ITF to KKW because the required material fromthe KKW is water down, not to say that each instructor cannot add more but the minium requirements are easier. I was a old ITF guy and was able to get my first in KKW in about 14 months but I also had rank in Okinawa Karate as well. So I believe me having so much material already made it easier. 

Now going from KKW to ITF would be so hard because they actual requirements are alot harder in my opinion, not trying to make people mad but it is whatit is and if he is doing Olympic style which would be the sport well that type of BB is even easier to get.


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## KarateMomUSA (Dec 30, 2010)

terryl965 said:


> Yes but the problem you have is you can only skip one dan.


I thought the KKW Dan test held in the USA allowed skipping up to 3 dans?


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## puunui (Dec 30, 2010)

KarateMomUSA said:


> I thought the KKW Dan test held in the USA allowed skipping up to 3 dans?



The rule used to be (and maybe it still is) is that you can do one skip dan in your life, up to three dans, and not past 7th Dan. But that Kukkiwon special test at US Open made exceptions. People were going from 1st to 7th Dan in some cases, and in others, people who had done a skip dan earlier in their career got another skip dan. From the Kukkiwon perspective, this USAT special test was a nightmare and the probability that they will do it again is very small. The whole experience with USAT is leaving the Kukkiwon with a very bad taste in the Kukkiwon's mouth. They pay late, or don't pay at all, and then the Kukkiwon takes all the blame, when in actuality it is USAT would did not keep their end of the deal.


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## Manny (Dec 30, 2010)

T43 said:


> Hi Terry,
> 
> I've been practicing the Martial Arts for 30 years. My rank was never important to me. My belt had started turning white all over again. I was accomplished in both Hyung, Sparring and Board Breaking. I never quit the Martial Arts, and had watched people that would start out ranking me over the years. It was OK. It wasn't what the Arts were to me. It was a way of life. About 10 years ago, my life changed dramatically, thanks to Landmark Education. I will be sharing my life and the lessons I have learned from all of my teachers over the years with my students soon. In order to be able to promote my own students, rank and my Dan is important. It's why it is now important to me. I appreciate your concern and I know it's genuine, I can tell you're a true Martial Artist. Thank-you.
> 
> ...


 
Fisth of all thank you sir, for your words. As I got it you are a 3thdan black belt under ITF and for the last year you have been practicing WTF TKD and you want at least a 3Dan certificaction from Kukiwon so you can test your own student below the Kukiwon/WTF umbrella.
My recomendation as you are a truly sambonim is to try to test for the maximun dan you can get from kukiwon get your certification and then set your goal in the next dan certification and prepare for it. I think you have what it takes to get your promotion.

Now, why don't you stay at your organization (ITF)? I think when you get your 3dan or 4th dan you can test your own studentes, can't you? If I were you I will not switch to WTF style TKD, I am a WTF guy so I think I will not change to ITF.

Manny


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## dortiz (Dec 30, 2010)

Valid point Manny. By third Dan you should really grasp your art enough to spread your wings. Why not train at the school, heck even in a white belt if you just go to train with folks but still do your forms and go back and keep ranking. Better yet spread your ITF TKD to your area. Start a YMCA club or something small. 1 or 2nd maybe but at third Dan to switch does not seem to make sense.


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## KarateMomUSA (Dec 30, 2010)

Manny said:


> Now, why don't you stay at your organization (ITF)? I think when you get your 3dan or 4th dan you can test your own studentes, can't you?


Actually in the ITF you must be a certified international instructor by completing an official ITF international instructors course & being at least a 4th Dan black belt with the ITF. Once you complete the course & get the course completion certificate, you send in that number & your 4th Dan or above ITF certificate number (or copies) with the required fee for the international instructor certificate. Once you get this ITF certificate, that number goes on the black belt applications you process.


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