# The Culture of Karate



## isshinryuronin (Mar 10, 2019)

Culture:  The characteristics and features shared by people in a place or time.  From the Latin,_ colere_ - to cultivate and nurture.

The verb used in the above definition is "shared," meaning freely given and received; something those people then have in common.

A century or two ago, the karate community was quite small:  A handful of Okinawan villages with a handful of masters, each teaching just a handful of students.  That community shared geography, bushido tradition, history and social standing - very homogenous with a lot in common.

Not so today.  There are many schools in many places teaching many and diverse students.  So, is there a "karate culture" today?


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## JR 137 (Mar 10, 2019)

I still think there is, in a sense. Forget about inside the dojo and differences in training; there’s still a bit of mutual respect between karateka and MAists in general. Get two guys who don’t know each other and let them each find out the other one trains MA. Like at a party where one person says “you do karate? That guy over there does karate too.” Chances are they’ll strike up a conversation about it. Hell, if they hit it off they might start sparring by the end of the night


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## isshinryuronin (Mar 10, 2019)

If they don't hit it off, they may start sparring even sooner.


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## JR 137 (Mar 10, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> If they don't hit it off, they may start sparring even sooner.


Funny, like, and agree all at the same time. So I went informative instead  I don’t use that one enough.


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## spidersam (Mar 10, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I still think there is, in a sense. Forget about inside the dojo and differences in training; there’s still a bit of mutual respect between karateka and MAists in general. Get two guys who don’t know each other and let them each find out the other one trains MA. Like at a party where one person says “you do karate? That guy over there does karate too.” Chances are they’ll strike up a conversation about it. Hell, if they hit it off they might start sparring by the end of the night



This happened to me just last week at work. I mentioned I do kung fu to a new coworker and he went into full detail about his wife’s bb taekwondo journey


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 10, 2019)

Happens to me constantly. Most of my friends know that I *cough* used to *cough* have an obsession with martial arts-studying, training, researching, fighting, etc. When they introduce me to someone who trains, they'll immediately tell them I train, and 9 times out of 10 the guy wants to spend an hour talking about it. Not that I mind, obviously.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 12, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I still think there is, in a sense. Forget about inside the dojo and differences in training; there’s still a bit of mutual respect between karateka and MAists in general. Get two guys who don’t know each other and let them each find out the other one trains MA. Like at a party where one person says “you do karate? That guy over there does karate too.” Chances are they’ll strike up a conversation about it. Hell, if they hit it off they might start sparring by the end of the night


Where I volunteer (security at the county courthouse), another volunteer is an old Kempo guy. He can't train any more (back and autoimmune disorder), but as soon as he found out I was a MAist, he made that the thing we talk about. Unfortunately, he's not really into discussion, so much as pontificating.


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## JR 137 (Mar 12, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Where I volunteer (security at the county courthouse), another volunteer is an old Kempo guy. He can't train any more (back and autoimmune disorder), but as soon as he found out I was a MAist, he made that the thing we talk about. Unfortunately, he's not really into discussion, so much as pontificating.


There’s certainly no shortage of pontification (is that a word? If not, it is now  ).


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## Yokozuna514 (Mar 12, 2019)

I cannot count the number of times I've had people find out that I train in karate and either do 'Bruce Lee' noises while waving their hands or just simply put their hands up to do air 'crotty' or 'judy' chops.

But does always come down to sparring at the end of the night doesn't it  ?   Even when you meet MA-ists that train seriously, the conversation usually turns to if you spar or not and what the drawbacks are of no face punching in Kyokushin.   I have been popped in the face a few times (even after we agreed that face punching at a party is probably not a good idea) but I usually shrug it off and continue.  I haven't been hit in the face twice yet but the other person quickly understands how fast I can adapt and hit to face as well .   I don't actually hit them in the face but I do let them 'kiss' the knuckles  or give them a little stroke to the face as a reminder that it was 'their' idea to spar and that we should 'both' remember to keep it light and friendly.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Mar 13, 2019)

A single, universal culture? Not really, aside from what was borrowed from Okinawa/Japan, such as wearing keikogi, using Japanese terminology, bowing, practicing kata, etc., but even those aren't universal in all karate styles/dojo. Of course, that isn't terribly surprising--humans are a tribal species, by nature, and that tribalism both brings us together (on a small scale) and drives us apart (on a larger scale). I generally see three tribes/cultures within karate, and there is some overlap, of course, but they are generally distinct from each other, overall:

Budo Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is to develop the spirit and character of the karateka, and give them a vehicle for living a long, healthy life
Sport Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is victory and success in competition, ideally climbing the ladder to world-wide competitions
Practical Karate - the belief that karate is meant to be an effective method of self defense and/or security, as it was historically
Each of these come with their own cultures, and I tend to find that most karateka can fit into one of these tribes, although there are always exceptions and overlap.


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## isshinryuronin (Mar 13, 2019)

Never_A_Reflection said:


> A single, universal culture? Not really, aside from what was borrowed from Okinawa/Japan, such as wearing keikogi, using Japanese terminology, bowing, practicing kata, etc., but even those aren't universal in all karate styles/dojo. Of course, that isn't terribly surprising--humans are a tribal species, by nature, and that tribalism both brings us together (on a small scale) and drives us apart (on a larger scale). I generally see three tribes/cultures within karate, and there is some overlap, of course, but they are generally distinct from each other, overall:
> 
> Budo Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is to develop the spirit and character of the karateka, and give them a vehicle for living a long, healthy life
> Sport Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is victory and success in competition, ideally climbing the ladder to world-wide competitions
> ...


I pretty much agree, although sadly, there are some dojos with little or no culture of any kind.  The old karate masters cultivated the budo and practical aspects in their students.  Luckily, there are some senseis who respect the old ways still around to nurture their students and propagate true karate culture.  But, yes, there is the competition culture, and of course, the crass commercial culture as well.


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## isshinryuronin (Mar 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Where I volunteer (security at the county courthouse), another volunteer is an old Kempo guy. He can't train any more (back and autoimmune disorder), but as soon as he found out I was a MAist, he made that the thing we talk about. Unfortunately, he's not really into discussion, so much as pontificating.


There is a lot of pontificating in these forums - some knowledgeable, some not so much.  Something we, especially the more advanced practitioners, should guard against, as its easy to fall into.  Humility is a part of bushido.


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## Buka (Mar 14, 2019)

I think the person running the dojo dictates what the culture is. 

I hope and pray that anyone running a dojo knows that.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 14, 2019)

Never_A_Reflection said:


> A single, universal culture? Not really, aside from what was borrowed from Okinawa/Japan, such as wearing keikogi, using Japanese terminology, bowing, practicing kata, etc., but even those aren't universal in all karate styles/dojo. Of course, that isn't terribly surprising--humans are a tribal species, by nature, and that tribalism both brings us together (on a small scale) and drives us apart (on a larger scale). I generally see three tribes/cultures within karate, and there is some overlap, of course, but they are generally distinct from each other, overall:
> 
> Budo Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is to develop the spirit and character of the karateka, and give them a vehicle for living a long, healthy life
> Sport Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is victory and success in competition, ideally climbing the ladder to world-wide competitions
> ...


I find that many schools are at least two of those things.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 18, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> There is a lot of pontificating in these forums - some knowledgeable, some not so much.  Something we, especially the more advanced practitioners, should guard against, as its easy to fall into.  Humility is a part of bushido.



We.


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## isshinryuronin (Mar 19, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> We.


We.  As in myself included.  I can always blame it on old age.


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## Steve (Mar 19, 2019)

Every group has a culture.  Much of the conflict we have on this forum is related to differences in culture.   

That said, I think talking about a common interest is not shared culture, though the topic of conversation will likely be about the similarities and differences between the two styles.  

I think pontification tends to be cultural, as folks will tend to believe that the most knowledgeable posters are the ones they like and agree with, based on their own cultural norms (martial arts or otherwise).  It’s human nature,


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## isshinryuronin (Apr 14, 2019)

I like to think there is a shared karate culture amongst committed practitioners.  We share the moral ideals espoused by the old masters:  Respect for others, appreciation of our sempai, judicious use of our art, and a sense of the history of karate.  Also sharing the personal ideals of perseverance, dedication, commitment to excellence and sharing with those less experienced, but serious students.  Karate culture also entails the oriental philosophical/spiritual concepts of the traditional martial arts that we share and give us perhaps a unique view of life. These are my personal views on the subject and I believe has given me the grounding which has enabled me to sustain my love of the art for so many decades.


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## _Simon_ (Apr 15, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> I like to think there is a shared karate culture amongst committed practitioners.  We share the moral ideals espoused by the old masters:  Respect for others, appreciation of our sempai, judicious use of our art, and a sense of the history of karate.  Also sharing the personal ideals of perseverance, dedication, commitment to excellence and sharing with those less experienced, but serious students.  Karate culture also entails the oriental philosophical/spiritual concepts of the traditional martial arts that we share and give us perhaps a unique view of life. These are my personal views on the subject and I believe has given me the grounding which has enabled me to sustain my love of the art for so many decades.


Well said


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## CB Jones (Apr 15, 2019)

Never_A_Reflection said:


> A single, universal culture? Not really, aside from what was borrowed from Okinawa/Japan, such as wearing keikogi, using Japanese terminology, bowing, practicing kata, etc., but even those aren't universal in all karate styles/dojo. Of course, that isn't terribly surprising--humans are a tribal species, by nature, and that tribalism both brings us together (on a small scale) and drives us apart (on a larger scale). I generally see three tribes/cultures within karate, and there is some overlap, of course, but they are generally distinct from each other, overall:
> 
> Budo Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is to develop the spirit and character of the karateka, and give them a vehicle for living a long, healthy life
> Sport Karate - the belief that the highest aim of karate is victory and success in competition, ideally climbing the ladder to world-wide competitions
> ...



I disagree that most fit in one of these categories.

I think most will will share 2 if not all 3 of those beliefs.  They may focus on one aspect more publicly and at different times in their life that focus will change but most share all three of those beliefs.


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## dvcochran (Apr 15, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I find that many schools are at least two of those things.


They should be I believe.


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## dvcochran (Apr 15, 2019)

Yokozuna514 said:


> I cannot count the number of times I've had people find out that I train in karate and either do 'Bruce Lee' noises while waving their hands or just simply put their hands up to do air 'crotty' or 'judy' chops.
> 
> But does always come down to sparring at the end of the night doesn't it  ?   Even when you meet MA-ists that train seriously, the conversation usually turns to if you spar or not and what the drawbacks are of no face punching in Kyokushin.   I have been popped in the face a few times (even after we agreed that face punching at a party is probably not a good idea) but I usually shrug it off and continue.  I haven't been hit in the face twice yet but the other person quickly understands how fast I can adapt and hit to face as well .   I don't actually hit them in the face but I do let them 'kiss' the knuckles  or give them a little stroke to the face as a reminder that it was 'their' idea to spar and that we should 'both' remember to keep it light and friendly.


How do you deal with the moment? I usually try to deflect and let the moment just pass by. If it turns into a genuine inquiry I will take as long as available to talk about the subject but I never let it get into the "how do you do this move" aspect. I encourage them to come to class so that we can workout together. Most of us know when someone seasoned enters a conversation discussing a higher order subject. I treat it with my full attention and provide as much feedback as I can. When this happens with someone from a very different style my best may not be of very much use but I always do it as genuine as I can hoping to help keep respect between the styles strong.


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## Yokozuna514 (Apr 16, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> How do you deal with the moment? I usually try to deflect and let the moment just pass by. If it turns into a genuine inquiry I will take as long as available to talk about the subject but I never let it get into the "how do you do this move" aspect. I encourage them to come to class so that we can workout together. Most of us know when someone seasoned enters a conversation discussing a higher order subject. I treat it with my full attention and provide as much feedback as I can. When this happens with someone from a very different style my best may not be of very much use but I always do it as genuine as I can hoping to help keep respect between the styles strong.


How do I deal with people from different styles when we first find out that we both train in different MA ?  I tend to ask questions about where, when and how often they train, what they like about their style, what interests them about training.    Most people return the questions and based on the tenor of the discussion I often ask if they want to train together sometime.   If they come off as a DB I tend not to ask to train with them or invite them to train with me.  I think most people can tell if someone is open to a genuine conversation or not.  

I recently walked into a "kickboxing gym" with my daughter.  It is more of workout place than a kickboxing gym to learn kickboxing.  The 'trainer' was a nice little young lady who when asked what her background was informed me it was 5 years of Northern Shaolin Kenpo and two years of kickboxing.   In other words, blah, blah, blah, buzz word, blah, blah, blah.   It was basically a gym that focused on interval training with a kickboxing theme "sharply" packaged for the soccer moms and weekend warriors.  Before you ask, I am taking the free course with two of my daughters because hey two of my daughters want to hang out with me and hit things.   How can I say no that  ?


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## Samantha Jeng (Jun 26, 2019)

Do you think those private organizations that offer karate summer camps are into "karate culture"? Since they are only teaching for a short period of time, can we say that there is still "karate culture" with their programs?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 27, 2019)

Samantha Jeng said:


> Do you think those private organizations that offer karate summer camps are into "karate culture"? Since they are only teaching for a short period of time, can we say that there is still "karate culture" with their programs?


I've never been to something like that, but I think many of them probably draw on the fact that there is a bit of universality of culture that crosses many of the styles/organizations out there. This is why folks who attend often come away feeling more a part of "Karate" as a whole - they've experienced working with folks from different styles who shared that Karate culture.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 27, 2019)

Samantha Jeng said:


> Do you think those private organizations that offer karate summer camps are into "karate culture"? Since they are only teaching for a short period of time, can we say that there is still "karate culture" with their programs?


Oh, and welcome to Martial Talk!


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## Buka (Jun 27, 2019)

Samantha Jeng said:


> Do you think those private organizations that offer karate summer camps are into "karate culture"? Since they are only teaching for a short period of time, can we say that there is still "karate culture" with their programs?



Welcome to Martial Talk, Samantha. 

As to your question, I imagine there would be some basic culture involved, but it would most likely vary according to the backgrounds of those teaching the courses.


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## Samantha Jeng (Jun 28, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I've never been to something like that, but I think many of them probably draw on the fact that there is a bit of universality of culture that crosses many of the styles/organizations out there. This is why folks who attend often come away feeling more a part of "Karate" as a whole - they've experienced working with folks from different styles who shared that Karate culture.



That is also what I think. By the way, thank you for the warm welcome gpseymour. Cheers!


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## Samantha Jeng (Jun 28, 2019)

Buka said:


> Welcome to Martial Talk, Samantha.
> 
> As to your question, I imagine there would be some basic culture involved, but it would most likely vary according to the backgrounds of those teaching the courses.



Hi Buka. Thanks for welcoming me. I believe that it will still depend on the teachers.


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