# what art would compliment sambo?



## BJJwannabe91 (Oct 31, 2015)

After a long time I finally decided to start learning sambo at team quest in Portland, Oregon. I was wondering what would compliment sambo more for street situations  sub wrestling or Muay Thai or boxing? Anything helps


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## lklawson (Nov 2, 2015)

Either Boxing or MT.  Sambo has plenty of throws, wrastle'n, locks, etc.

The boxing in MT is a bit different from modern boxing.

MT will teach MT style kicks too, which are notably absent from Boxing.

Either one will work just fine for what you want.  Go take a few classes of each and stick with the one which appeals to you more for whatever reason; fun, cost, availability, number of classes, whatevs.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## BJJwannabe91 (Nov 2, 2015)

lklawson said:


> Either Boxing or MT.  Sambo has plenty of throws, wrastle'n, locks, etc.
> 
> The boxing in MT is a bit different from modern boxing.
> 
> ...


Okay, thank you very much Kirk!


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 4, 2015)

Concentrate on what you are currently training in.  There are few people who can learn two styles effectively as a beginner.  So much to learn, don't divide your effort.


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## BJJwannabe91 (Nov 4, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Concentrate on what you are currently training in.  There are few people who can learn two styles effectively as a beginner.  So much to learn, don't divide your effort.


Alright, I thought it would help me progress even better. I guess the way I thought of it as like when you Powerlift you focus on the big 3 but you do assecory work to help those lifts, thought it be much the same.


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## drop bear (Nov 4, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Concentrate on what you are currently training in.  There are few people who can learn two styles effectively as a beginner.  So much to learn, don't divide your effort.



OK. If you are missing sambo class to train boxing then probably yeah.

If you are missing boxing to go home and sit on the couch then no.


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## BJJwannabe91 (Nov 4, 2015)

drop bear said:


> OK. If you are missing sambo class to train boxing then probably yeah.
> 
> If you are missing boxing to go home and sit on the couch then no.


That's what I was thinking cause I wanted to train 4-5 times a week and sambo is only two days a week so I figured any of those would help for street and competition situations. I think I'll do the kickboxing twice a week sub wrestling once a week and sambo twice a week


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## lklawson (Nov 4, 2015)

BJJwannabe91 said:


> That's what I was thinking cause I wanted to train 4-5 times a week and sambo is only two days a week so I figured any of those would help for street and competition situations. I think I'll do the kickboxing twice a week sub wrestling once a week and sambo twice a week


Sambo and Boxing/MT are different enough that you'll probably be OK.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 4, 2015)

Well, you wanted opinions, that's mine.  I used to think I should consider cross-training in another art, like maybe Judo or something for more of a ground approach than I get with Isshin-Ryu training.  Going on ten years later, three times a week, I'm still learning so much that I really cannot handle trying to take on another system.  I feel I can do two systems badly or one semi-badly.  I'm sticking with one.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 4, 2015)

BJJwannabe91 said:


> Alright, I thought it would help me progress even better. I guess the way I thought of it as like when you Powerlift you focus on the big 3 but you do assecory work to help those lifts, thought it be much the same.



Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings.  Say for example you decide to start to learn to speak a second language and then figure it might be a good idea to simultaneously learn to speak a third.  Some might be able to pull that off.  I surely could not, and I don't know many who could.


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## drop bear (Nov 4, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings.  Say for example you decide to start to learn to speak a second language and then figure it might be a good idea to simultaneously learn to speak a third.  Some might be able to pull that off.  I surely could not, and I don't know many who could.



As far as languages go. Heaps of people speak multiple lanuages. 

If the weight lifting is power lifting then it technique driven. I would suggest it is as mind body spirit as martial arts.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 4, 2015)

drop bear said:


> As far as languages go. Heaps of people speak multiple lanuages.



But they generally don't learn them all at the same time, especially not as adults.



> If the weight lifting is power lifting then it technique driven. I would suggest it is as mind body spirit as martial arts.



Um, no.


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## lklawson (Nov 5, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings.


In your opinion.

My friends living/lived in Japan and the ex-pats I know tell me that it's common for Japanese martial artists to combine Judo and Karate.  I that's hearsay, really, I suppose.  What I can say is that it's my experience that training in two different systems which don't over-lap each other too much tends to be not as challenging as some are concerned it might be.

Boxing + Judo used to be pretty common here in the States and, prior to the Judo/JuJitsu rise of the early/mid-20th Century, it was pretty common for amateurs to practice both Boxing and Wrestling.

I know that your philosophy is to focus on one art and one art alone as a whole-life method of physical, mental, and spiritual growth and I'm not going to gainsay that choice.  But it is a choice and, though it works for you and (doubtless) would work for anyone else desiring a similar path, it is a choice which is not always best suited to every one else' goals.  In this case, I honestly don't believe that it best suits the OP's goals, nor do I believe that studying separate striking and grappling arts in the way he is considering is going to seriously hamper his ability to reach the goals he's laid out.  One size don't fit all.  

We're still friends, though, right?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Nov 5, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> But they generally don't learn them all at the same time, especially not as adults.


I've known a lot of bi-linguals who came up from the git-go learning two separate languages.  I recall one friend who's parents were first gen German ex-pats.  She was born in the U.S. and grew up having to learn "American" English.  But her father's rule was, inside the house, *German*.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 5, 2015)

lklawson said:


> In your opinion.



Yes, precisely.  When asked for an opinion, that's what I have to offer.



> ...In this case, I honestly don't believe that it best suits the OP's goals, nor do I believe that studying separate striking and grappling arts in the way he is considering is going to seriously hamper his ability to reach the goals he's laid out.  One size don't fit all.



Yeah, well, that's YOUR opinion.  



> We're still friends, though, right?



Most definitely!


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> But they generally don't learn them all at the same time, especially not as adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no.



OK. Excellent opinion. Now let's present some actual sources.

Powerlifting is a complicated and difficult to learn and refine skill. You can, exactly like martial arts,have different paths to achieve the best results.

Powerlifting Technique and Leverages

You may need to learn to move using different principles. Very similar to trying to learn two different martial arts at the same time.  Especially if you are trying to get the best results from different people.

Mental strength is increadably important in a game like this that has a small difference between success and failure. There are pathways to achieving mental toughness and it is absolutely an important skill to achieve.
Mental Preparation for Weightlifting | Podium Sports Journal

Spirit. Well who cares it is a made up thing.

Martial arts is no more complicated,mysterious or enlightened that a whole host of other skills or arts that people combine to excellence. I do not understand where martial arts even gets this concept other than ego stroking.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 6, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Martial arts is no more complicated,mysterious or enlightened that a whole host of other skills or arts that people combine to excellence. I do not understand where martial arts even gets this concept other than ego stroking.



I used to think that also.


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I used to think that also.



I used to think the other way. But unfortunately I notice and think about stuff.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 6, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> But they generally don't learn them all at the same time, especially not as adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no.


 
During 1966/67, I learned Vietnamese at a Defense Language Institute, Biggs Field, TX, and Spanish (having previously had a couple of years in school learning vocabulary and conjugation) in Juarez, Mexico.  It was a good opportunity to do both.  But I should have spent more time on the Vietnamese since it is such a different kind of language, and I didn't learn it quite as well as the Spanish.  So I tend to agree, one can learn more than on language at a time as an adult, but one language may not be learned to the same level.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 6, 2015)

drop bear said:


> ...
> Spirit. Well who cares it is a made up thing.


 
Now there's an opinion, stated as fact.  If you have never experienced it, either used on you or using it, I can understand you having that opinion, but fact?  I certainly have a different opinion based on experience.



drop bear said:


> Martial arts is no more complicated,mysterious or enlightened that a whole host of other skills or arts that people combine to excellence. I do not understand where martial arts even gets this concept other than ego stroking.


 
Again, an opinion, and you are entitled to it.  But please don't try to paint me with that brush.  If you are satisfied with the learning you have without gi, good for you.  Be happy.  But in my opinion, you are missing something.


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## drop bear (Nov 6, 2015)

oftheherd1 said:


> Now there's an opinion, stated as fact.  If you have never experienced it, either used on you or using it, I can understand you having that opinion, but fact?  I certainly have a different opinion based on experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, an opinion, and you are entitled to it.  But please don't try to paint me with that brush.  If you are satisfied with the learning you have without gi, good for you.  Be happy.  But in my opinion, you are missing something.



OK there is no evidence of a spirit. That is not an opinion. That just is.

What makes martial arts a deeper more mental or spiritual art than anything else? It can't just be because you really like it. People really like all kinds of stuff.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 6, 2015)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings.





drop bear said:


> If the weight lifting is power lifting then it technique driven. I would suggest it is as mind body spirit as martial arts.





drop bear said:


> Martial arts is no more complicated,mysterious or enlightened that a whole host of other skills or arts that people combine to excellence. I do not understand where martial arts even gets this concept other than ego stroking.





oftheherd1 said:


> Again, an opinion, and you are entitled to it. But please don't try to paint me with that brush. If you are satisfied with the learning you have without gi, good for you. Be happy. But in my opinion, you are missing something.



I'm with drop bear on this one. It's not that I'm dismissive of the value of concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice in martial arts. It's that I don't think martial artists should be dismissive of the value of concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice in a host of domains unrelated to martial arts. The lessons that you or I might have learned from a lifetime of martial arts practice, someone else may have learned from a lifetime of practicing the flute or rock climbing.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 9, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm with drop bear on this one. It's not that I'm dismissive of the value of concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice in martial arts. It's that I don't think martial artists should be dismissive of the value of concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice in a host of domains unrelated to martial arts. The lessons that you or I might have learned from a lifetime of martial arts practice, someone else may have learned from a lifetime of practicing the flute or rock climbing.


 
If someone has learned to use gi in some other enterprise, good for them.  For my part though, I am not sure gi is best described simply as "concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice."  If you do believe that is the best description, then no doubt you achieved the use of gi very early on, and I applaud you for your ability to do so.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> OK there is no evidence of a spirit. That is not an opinion. That just is.
> 
> What makes martial arts a deeper more mental or spiritual art than anything else? It can't just be because you really like it. People really like all kinds of stuff.


 
How do you define spirit?

I don't think development of gi reakkt depends on how much you like martial arts, other than I think it would be a part of it in that if you didn't like martial arts, you would be less likely to begin, and certainly to continue studying.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 9, 2015)

oftheherd1 said:


> If someone has learned to use gi in some other enterprise, good for them.  For my part though, I am not sure gi is best described simply as "concentrated, thoughtful mind/body/spirit practice."  If you do believe that is the best description, then no doubt you achieved the use of gi very early on, and I applaud you for your ability to do so.


I assume you meant ki or qi rather than "gi?"

In any case, I don't think there was any mention of ki/chi/qi in this thread previously to your post just now. I was responding to Bill's assertion that "_Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings_"


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 10, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I assume you meant ki or qi rather than "gi?"
> 
> In any case, I don't think there was any mention of ki/chi/qi in this thread previously to your post just now. I was responding to Bill's assertion that "_Martial arts is not like lifting weights; the approach is one of mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings_"


 
Well, ki, qi, chi, or gi, or whatever else, I think we all understand each other or can ask for clarification.  If I remember from reading some 35-40 years ago, there are something like 13 or 15 different systems of depicting Korean words into English.  To me, "gi" always seemed to better express the word as I have heard the word pronounced.  And that is not with a "j" similar sound but more of a back of the mouth sound sort of like the "g" in goat.

As to it first being used, I guess I have to plead guilty to that, although it was several posts above.  I was keying off the use of the word spirit (and probably confusing this thread with another one) and connecting its possible use as a synonym of gi.  That was probably an error, in the context of this thread.  But drop bear would best clarify that.  Possibly when he tells us how he defines spirit, whether he believes in it or not.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 10, 2015)

oftheherd1 said:


> Well, ki, qi, chi, or gi, or whatever else, I think we all understand each other or can ask for clarification.  If I remember from reading some 35-40 years ago, there are something like 13 or 15 different systems of depicting Korean words into English.  To me, "gi" always seemed to better express the word as I have heard the word pronounced.  And that is not with a "j" similar sound but more of a back of the mouth sound sort of like the "g" in goat.
> 
> As to it first being used, I guess I have to plead guilty to that, although it was several posts above.  I was keying off the use of the word spirit (and probably confusing this thread with another one) and connecting its possible use as a synonym of gi.  That was probably an error, in the context of this thread.  But drop bear would best clarify that.  Possibly when he tells us how he defines spirit, whether he believes in it or not.


Yeah, I figured maybe you were switching between threads and got the discussion in this one mixed up with the "any evidence that chi works?" thread.

My comment in this thread was addressing the question of whether martial arts is a uniquely special area of study in terms of "_mind, body, and spirit and it requires concentration and thoughtful practice to even begin to absorb the basics, let alone the deeper meanings_" compared to other domains where practitioners devote themselves to excellence.


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## Langenschwert (Nov 10, 2015)

Back to the question of the OP:

As an unarmed art, Sambo is reasonably complete, so learning another unarmed art isn't going to pay much dividends. 

If you're focusing on more real-world self-defence, go train that on your off days.

I always advise people who do unarmed arts to go do armed ones if they can. It will be a real eye opener. It's one thing to learn knife defence, and quite another to learn how to use a knife. Most FMA schools have a robust weapons program.


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