# Daito-ryu wrist locks



## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 23, 2016)

Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu and was wondering if there is a list somewhere of the names of the wrist locks, or quality book, so I can start learning them.  I looked online but search not pulling anything in.  Thanks


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## frank raud (Jul 23, 2016)

I would suggest learning how to do the techniques in a class, and get a book as a supplement, rather than trying to teach yourself from a book, than having to be  taught the proper way  in class. Daito-ryu is a subtle art, much of what makes it work won't be in a book.


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 23, 2016)

Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class, don't need the techniques, I need a pic and name, to learn the name of the technique quicker, to master the technique will take years, I know that.


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## frank raud (Jul 23, 2016)

lifelongstudent1 said:


> Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class, don't need the techniques, I need a pic and name, to learn the name of the technique quicker, to master the technique will take years, I know that.


Which branch of Daito ryu? Who Is the head instructor? Daito ryu is a commonly misused name in martial arts. No sense recommending something from the main line, if that is not what you are studying.


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 23, 2016)

Yamibushi ryu


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## marques (Jul 23, 2016)

Ask your instructor first (senior students...), if you didn't yet. 
Probably they know, and they can recommend something coherent with your practice. 
You know, there are different names for the same, different things under the same name...


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2016)

Hmm… there's a few things to look at here… 



lifelongstudent1 said:


> Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu and was wondering if there is a list somewhere of the names of the wrist locks, or quality book, so I can start learning them.  I looked online but search not pulling anything in.  Thanks



No. For one thing, Daito-ryu isn't really about the particular wrist locks, as that is really the most superficial way to look at the art, it's about the way the art is applied, stemming from a core philosophical ideal, and expressed through the waza of the ryu-ha. As a result, it's the kata that you'll find some material on, not individual wrist locks… but even then you're going to have some issues.

Daito-ryu is a very elaborate system, with various lines having large and small differences in the way they express the methods of the system, and having large or small differences in the syllabus itself… with some having lists of over 3,000 separate waza (kata). Where they all start, however, is with a document/section known as the Hiden Mokuroku… which is a list of 118 basic techniques (note: not as in "this is a wrist lock, this is a punch", instead, 118 different kata… which, in Japanese arts, are short sequences trained paired with an attacker and defender)… which are then trained in a range of different ways (both standing, both kneeling, one standing one kneeling), as well as with different tactical approaches… which brings us to the next thing to be aware of.

There's no such thing as Daito-ryu jujitsu. 

Daito-ryu is most often described as "aikijutsu", however even that's fairly limiting when it comes to the art itself. In many lines, the methods are learnt in three formats… firstly, as a "jujutsu" approach… which relies fairly heavily on striking in order to counter grabs, and provide opportunities to apply restraining holds, locks etc… then an "aikijujutsu" approach, where the striking is reduced, and there is a higher emphasis on applying "aiki" timing… and finally as "aikijutsu", where the striking is almost non-existent, and the techniques rely almost completely on aiki timing. This means that the 118 waza required to learn in the first section actually becomes 1,062 different combative expressions…

The Hiden Mokuroku, for the record, is most commonly what is required to attain Shodan, by the way.



lifelongstudent1 said:


> Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class, don't need the techniques, I need a pic and name, to learn the name of the technique quicker, to master the technique will take years, I know that.



Honestly, you're better off making your own notes. Yes, there are books out there, and yes, there are videos out there… but, unless it's your particular line, the differences may be big, or almost non-existent… so the more important question is Franks:



frank raud said:


> Which branch of Daito ryu? Who Is the head instructor? Daito ryu is a commonly misused name in martial arts. No sense recommending something from the main line, if that is not what you are studying.



Personally, I'd say that Daito-ryu is often cited with little basis, and aikijutsu is often misapplied (or applied without basis)… but it's a small distinction… 



lifelongstudent1 said:


> Yamibushi ryu



Er… so… are you aiming to study Daito-ryu or Yamabushi-ryu? They're not the same thing, you know… Daito-ryu is a Japanese art, likely founded in the late 19th Century by Sokaku Takeda, with a very koryu-like structure and format, involving a large range of unarmed methods, as well as some weaponry aspects (depending on the line itself)… Yamabushi-ryu is a modern, Western art, developed in about 1980, with almost no mention of where the methods come from, but likely not anything at all to do with Daito-ryu… 

If this is the "Yamabushi-ryu" you're talking about (Yamabushi Ryu), the list of issues, errors, and basic misunderstandings in, well, everything to do with Japanese martial arts, history, and so on would have me avoiding them completely. If you want something in anyway authentic, this is not the place… 

This is assuming that you're meaning "Yamabushi-ryu", rather than "yamibushi-ryu", as I couldn't find anything on that one…


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## Tames D (Jul 23, 2016)

lifelongstudent1 said:


> Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class, don't need the techniques, I need a pic and name, to learn the name of the technique quicker, to master the technique will take years, I know that.


I'm a little confused. Your first post in this thread you say *"Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu"*. But in post #3 you say *"Let me be clear on this, I am taking the classes and learning proper technique, I am looking for book or online list to learn out of class". *Perhaps I'm missing something?


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2016)

And then names a different system that they're apparently learning… lots of questions here…


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## drop bear (Jul 23, 2016)

Someone asks you the time and you tell them how to make a watch.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2016)

And someone asks you. And you give. Broken sentences with little context. Or logic. But you do MMA. So that's all that works. If it's done the same way. And proof doesn't exist.

Do you really want to pursue into areas you clearly don't have a clue about?


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## drop bear (Jul 23, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> And someone asks you. And you give. Broken sentences with little context. Or logic. But you do MMA. So that's all that works. If it's done the same way. And proof doesn't exist.
> 
> Do you really want to pursue into areas you clearly don't have a clue about?



You didn't understand the logic or the context? 

Meh fair enough.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 23, 2016)

Since I get the feeling you won't read the long response in its entirety, going to reiterate a part of it. It would be best to make your own notes of it if your instructor doesn't have any, since notes or a book you may find online may not be entirely accurate, and even if they are they may not be accurate for your dojo.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 23, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You didn't understand the logic or the context?
> 
> Meh fair enough.



You're not reading again.


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## drop bear (Jul 24, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> You're not reading again.



This is context.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 24, 2016)

Er… even that sentence doesn't have any context…


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## Charlemagne (Jul 24, 2016)

I think people might be over thinking this one a bit.  To be fair, it is hard to tell from the OP if he is currently training or getting ready to start.  

However, I think all he is looking for is the names of techniques so that he can keep what he is learning straight in his head.  That way when he hears "_kote hineri_", he knows what it refers to, or when he sees someone perform a technique, even if he doesn't know the subtleties of how to perform it properly himself, he has a framework to classify it, and probably place it into a rank chart/outline that he might get from his instructor: "hey, that guy just did _ude garami_. I need to know that for Orange belt...", or something like that.  

Perhaps I am missing something, but I think that is all the OP is looking for.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 24, 2016)

Sure… but each different system will have their own terminology… the terms used in my system are different to the ones used in another… or, when the same term, the technique being referred to is different. So, until we get some answers to the questions asked, there's no way we could provide anything in the first place.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 24, 2016)

frank raud said:


> I would suggest learning how to do the techniques in a class, and get a book as a supplement, rather than trying to teach yourself from a book, than having to be  taught the proper way  in class. Daito-ryu is a subtle art, much of what makes it work won't be in a book.


This. And your instructor will be able to point you toward a book or video set that best supports the way he teaches.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 24, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> I think people might be over thinking this one a bit.  To be fair, it is hard to tell from the OP if he is currently training or getting ready to start.
> 
> However, I think all he is looking for is the names of techniques so that he can keep what he is learning straight in his head.  That way when he hears "_kote hineri_", he knows what it refers to, or when he sees someone perform a technique, even if he doesn't know the subtleties of how to perform it properly himself, he has a framework to classify it, and probably place it into a rank chart/outline that he might get from his instructor: "hey, that guy just did _ude garami_. I need to know that for Orange belt...", or something like that.
> 
> Perhaps I am missing something, but I think that is all the OP is looking for.


If he's not already familiar with the movements, it seems unlikely pictures in a book will help him identify what he sees later. A video series might, since he can see the movements. Of course, he'd likely need one that's closely related to how the techniques are performed at his target school, because a relatively new student won't easily recognize the similarities between different approaches.


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## Charlemagne (Jul 24, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> If he's not already familiar with the movements, it seems unlikely pictures in a book will help him identify what he sees later. A video series might, since he can see the movements. Of course, he'd likely need one that's closely related to how the techniques are performed at his target school, because a relatively new student won't easily recognize the similarities between different approaches.



The way I read the OP's post is that he was planning to do in-person training and was looking to find a good book to supplement what he was doing.  I believe a good book can be very effective when used in this way.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 24, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> The way I read the OP's post is that he was planning to do in-person training and was looking to find a good book to supplement what he was doing.  I believe a good book can be very effective when used in this way.


His original post (the OP of the OP) stated that he was planning to take classes. That's what I was referring to. I definitely think a book can be helpful after you've started training - even a book from a related art/style. I have my students pick up a book from the mainline of our art for just this reason.


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## Jameswhelan (Jul 25, 2016)

lifelongstudent1 said:


> Hello, I am thinking of taking up Daito-ryu Jujitsu and was wondering if there is a list somewhere of the names of the wrist locks, or quality book, so I can start learning them.  I looked online but search not pulling anything in.  Thanks


Hi! Try this:

Katsuyuki Kondo — Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Hiden Mokuroku: Ikkajo | store

Good luck in your training!


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 26, 2016)

Okay, allow me to give an example, as again I am not looking for a "how-to" book, because personal instruction is the only true way to learn a martial art.  What I am trying to find is a list and description of like say, Kote Gaeshi.  The purpose of this is to assist me (possibly others), in understanding the art quicker, to in essence "speak the language" quicker.  From my experience, if one has a solid grasp of the basic "language", this is one less hurdle to get past.  I did not not mean to cause hate or upset people, this is not the intent.  I understand where Daito-ryu came from and the history.  I also, have seen the vast amount of people apply the principles and evolve them into another "modern system".  I want to thank everyone for the information they provided, but I have came up with a way to do what I was looking for.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 26, 2016)

I'


lifelongstudent1 said:


> Okay, allow me to give an example, as again I am not looking for a "how-to" book, because personal instruction is the only true way to learn a martial art.  What I am trying to find is a list and description of like say, Kote Gaeshi.  The purpose of this is to assist me (possibly others), in understanding the art quicker, to in essence "speak the language" quicker.  From my experience, if one has a solid grasp of the basic "language", this is one less hurdle to get past.  I did not not mean to cause hate or upset people, this is not the intent.  I understand where Daito-ryu came from and the history.  I also, have seen the vast amount of people apply the principles and evolve them into another "modern system".  I want to thank everyone for the information they provided, but I have came up with a way to do what I was looking for.


I'm back to my original answer - check with the instructor. As others have noted, there's more than one branch of Daito-ryu, and names and descriptions may (in fact, will) differ among them. You want a book/source that aligns with what you're studying, so you don't add to the confusion that is always present when starting a new style.

Later, of course, any reasonable source on Daito-ryu will be useful in expanding your understanding.


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## drop bear (Jul 26, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'
> 
> I'm back to my original answer - check with the instructor. As others have noted, there's more than one branch of Daito-ryu, and names and descriptions may (in fact, will) differ among them. You want a book/source that aligns with what you're studying, so you don't add to the confusion that is always present when starting a new style.
> 
> Later, of course, any reasonable source on Daito-ryu will be useful in expanding your understanding.



Yeah.  He went on and found it without help. 

Amazing really.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 26, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yeah.  He went on and found it without help.
> 
> Amazing really.


No, you mean he took the lesson of not being allowed to find a list of terms for his work from the enlightened members of the forum, and went on to never try to learn anything outside of his dojo ever again. That's what they all do, posts saying otherwise are just lies.


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## drop bear (Jul 26, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> No, you mean he took the lesson of not being allowed to find a list of terms for his work from the enlightened members of the forum, and went on to never try to learn anything outside of his dojo ever again. That's what they all do, posts saying otherwise are just lies.



Thankfully he is saved from thinking the wrong thoughts.

(Look it is definitely not my thing that is for sure. I really like the community aspect of what I do. I like that I could go across the country find a guy and say. "Show me some wristlocks" and he would and if my instructor found his response would be "show me some wristlocks")

I don't know mabye some people need that structure. But there is a reason some martial arts are popular.


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## Tames D (Jul 26, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> No, you mean he took the lesson of not being allowed to find a list of terms for his work from the enlightened members of the forum, and went on to never try to learn anything outside of his dojo ever again. That's what they all do, posts saying otherwise are just lies.


Thank God he wasn't asking for video.


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