# Wing Chun Recommendations?



## jtbdad (Jan 17, 2011)

My friends;
I am a long time student of Okinawan Karate.  Recently I met a young lady who was a student of Wing Chun for several years and we had a delightful discussion and realized that the two styles are similar. 

There is no Wing Chun instruction available in my area as far as I know can anyone recommend for me other resources, books, DVD's etc. concerning your art?  

I am not expecting to earn rank or any such thing.  Rank stopped being important to me a long time ago.  What I am interested in is the application of centerline and redirection of momentum theories. 

Regards;
John


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## wtxs (Jan 17, 2011)

jtbdad said:


> My friends;
> I am a long time student of Okinawan Karate.  Recently I met a young lady who was a student of Wing Chun for several years and we had a delightful discussion and realized that the two styles are similar.
> 
> There is no Wing Chun instruction available in my area as far as I know can anyone recommend for me other *resources*, books, DVD's etc. concerning your art?
> ...



:hmm: ... Just an wild idea, since you didn't say, what about starting with your WC lady friend.


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## CRCAVirginia (Jan 17, 2011)

Where do you live? Perhaps someone can direct you to a WC Instructor...


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## geezer (Jan 17, 2011)

CRCAVirginia said:


> Where do you live? Perhaps someone can direct you to a WC Instructor...



CRCVirginia is absolutely right. You really want to find an instructor or, at least, a training partner with WC experience. That way you can move into some Chi-Sau training. That's what you will really want to try. Then start researching some of the little known chi-sau-like sensitivity training in some ryu of Okinawan Karate. The connections are pretty cool. Good luck in your search.


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## WC_lun (Jan 17, 2011)

You really can't understand Wing Chun without experiencing it.  Having said that, I thought a good book was "Mastering Kung Fu" by Garrett Gee, Benny Meng, and Richard Loewenhagen.


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## KamonGuy2 (Jan 18, 2011)

WC_lun said:


> You really can't understand Wing Chun without experiencing it. Having said that, I thought a good book was "Mastering Kung Fu" by Garrett Gee, *Benny Meng*, and Richard Loewenhagen.


 
Did you really just say that....?


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## geezer (Jan 18, 2011)

Kamon Guy said:


> Did you really just say that....?


 
Forgive his ignorance. It's just because he hasn't read a really good book on the subject like _Real Wing Chun _by Mook, Geezer, and Kamon Guy. LOL


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## zepedawingchun (Jan 18, 2011)

WC_lun said:


> You really can't understand Wing Chun without experiencing it. Having said that, I thought a good book was "Mastering Kung Fu" by Garrett Gee, Benny Meng, and Richard Loewenhagen.


 
I have to agree with WC Lun, it is a good book.  Just because the authors appear to be a bit shifty (at least one of them), doesn't mean the book is not worth reading.  It gets very deep, but a lot of things in it are just like the way my Sifu does it, along with some of the principles, theories, and concepts.


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## zepedawingchun (Jan 18, 2011)

geezer said:


> Forgive his ignorance. It's just because he hasn't read a really good book on the subject like _Real Wing Chun _by Mook, Geezer, and Kamon Guy. LOL


 
Where can I get that book?  Is it here on the forum?  Copy and paste it then send it to me.  I need some really good reading on some really good Wing Chun.


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## zepedawingchun (Jan 18, 2011)

jtbdad said:


> My friends;
> I am a long time student of Okinawan Karate. Recently I met a young lady who was a student of Wing Chun for several years and we had a delightful discussion and realized that the two styles are similar.


 
All kidding aside, Wing Chun and Okinawan Karate are not similar in hand positions and execution.  Principles, theories and concepts, maybe, as most martial arts have some of the same ideas.  But the execution is totally different.  In order to do Wing Chun well, you have to leave the Okinawan Karate alone for awhile so you can build the proper ideas and physical skills needed for the Wing Chun basics to become fairly proficient with them.


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## matsu (Jan 18, 2011)

geezer said:


> Forgive his ignorance. It's just because he hasn't read a really good book on the subject like _Real Wing Chun _by Mook, Geezer, and Kamon Guy. LOL


 
this book i want please!!

matsu


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## Eric_H (Jan 18, 2011)

WC_lun said:


> You really can't understand Wing Chun without experiencing it.  Having said that, I thought a good book was "Mastering Kung Fu" by Garrett Gee, Benny Meng, and Richard Loewenhagen.



Just a bit of Trivia, 

I was in Richard Loewenhagen's school when he was writing that book, the first draft was about 3-4 times as long. They left a lot of good stuff on the cutting room floor. He had talked about maybe releasing the full thing as an ebook someday (last i saw him was in 2007), but who knows if we'll see it or not.


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## Eric_H (Jan 18, 2011)

jtbdad said:


> My friends;
> I am a long time student of Okinawan Karate.  Recently I met a young lady who was a student of Wing Chun for several years and we had a delightful discussion and realized that the two styles are similar.
> 
> There is no Wing Chun instruction available in my area as far as I know can anyone recommend for me other resources, books, DVD's etc. concerning your art?
> ...



John,

For a good background on different lineages the book Complete Wing Chun by Robert Chu is pretty good.

For applications and such I always liked William Chueng's TWC videos, just bear in mind his stuff is significantly different to the other guys.

~Eric


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## K-man (Jan 18, 2011)

zepedawingchun said:


> All kidding aside, Wing Chun and Okinawan Karate are not similar in hand positions and execution. Principles, theories and concepts, maybe, as most martial arts have some of the same ideas. But the execution is totally different. In order to do Wing Chun well, you have to leave the Okinawan Karate alone for awhile so you can build the proper ideas and physical skills needed for the Wing Chun basics to become fairly proficient with them.


I noticed that you had studied Shotokan which now has a more pronounced Japanese influence that 100 years ago, and even then I'm not sure that Chi Sau was ever part of Funakoshi Sensei's training. You have probably not been exposed to 'kakie'.

*Geezer* is absolutely on the money with his post:


> You really want to find an instructor or, at least, a training partner with WC experience. That way you can move into some Chi-Sau training. That's what you will really want to try. Then start researching some of the little known chi-sau-like sensitivity training in some ryu of Okinawan Karate. The connections are pretty cool.


In Okinawan Goju Ryu we regularly practise 'kakie', which has its origins in Chi Sau. Kanryo Higaonna Sensei brought it back from Fuzhow after his time of study in China. In the local Fujian dialect it is 'kokie'. Basically it is almost identical to the Wing Chun versions I have seen on video. 

If you want to go further back, this type of training originates in Qin Na, which is arguably the basis of all traditional martial arts.

Admittedly not all Goju karate schools practise kakie and those that do, most do not take it to a high level, but it certainly should be an integral part of the system. Because most karate now focusses on sport rather than close combat, kakie is not as relevent in a sparring scenario. If you want to include locks, holds and throws in your training you need the sensitivity and softness that kakie provides.

WRT the OP. Yes, the two styles are similar because Higaonna Sensei not only studied Kungfu in China under Master To Ru Ko, he actually became assistant chief instructor. The whole basis of Okinawan Goju Ryu is what is generally referred to as 'Chinese Kempo' (or Kenpo if you prefer). :asian:


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## jtbdad (Jan 20, 2011)

wtxs said:


> :hmm: ... Just an wild idea, since you didn't say, what about starting with your WC lady friend.



I should have further explained.  She was a visiting scholar and has returned to Washington.  I only met her days before her return.  Sorry for the incomplete information.


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## jtbdad (Jan 20, 2011)

CRCAVirginia said:


> Where do you live? Perhaps someone can direct you to a WC Instructor...


'


I live in Central Ohio.  Thank you.


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## jtbdad (Jan 20, 2011)

WC_lun said:


> You really can't understand Wing Chun without experiencing it.  Having said that, I thought a good book was "Mastering Kung Fu" by Garrett Gee, Benny Meng, and Richard Loewenhagen.



Thanks for the opinion and the recommendation.  I'll be sure to look for it.


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## jtbdad (Jan 20, 2011)

K-man said:


> I noticed that you had studied Shotokan which now has a more pronounced Japanese influence that 100 years ago, and even then I'm not sure that Chi Sau was ever part of Funakoshi Sensei's training. You have probably not been exposed to 'kakie'.
> 
> *Geezer* is absolutely on the money with his post:
> 
> ...



I have worked with Kakie as you pointed out is significantly helps in throws.


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## WC_lun (Jan 21, 2011)

Kamon Guy said:


> Did you really just say that....?


 
Yeah, I sure did. I have my own opinions about Benny Meng, but they have nothing to do with the book.  The book is good.  It is pretty deep, though definitley not inclusive.  There is also much of it that a person not already versed in good Wing Chun won't really understand and some of the illistrations are a tad off.  Most of it reads like a technical manual and I suppose in a sense it is.  However, it is the best book on Wing Chun I've read and that is saying something.


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## geezer (Jan 21, 2011)

Recommendations are tricky. Like the Benny Meng thing you guys were talking about. Lineage differences are also a problem. Most books on the subject are a mixed bag at best. Some look great but are either very superficial or show seriously flawed technique. Others may have good contents but are heavily slanted to support a particular organization or individual. And some contain deliberate mis-information. For example, I still rely heavily on books written by my old Sifu. Heck, I'm even in one of them. But I'd never recommend them to an "outsider" without certain disclaimers. 1. A good part of each book is designed to promote that particular individual and his organization. 2. The layout and format is typically about as amateurish as a high school yearbook, and 3. There are some techniques that are deliberately left out or mis-represented "to keep the real way secret". Dang, _there ain't no secrets in Kung-fu!_ Just good instruction and hard work. Yet if you read his books, he always changes a few things from the way he actually taught them. The "secrecy" thing is a tried and true way to keep students paying for lessons I guess. Maybe he learned that from Grandmaster Yip?


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## Vajramusti (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey Geezer- I remember seeing your picture in that LT book!!

Most of my sifu's books are out of print I believe.

joy chaudhuri


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## Vajramusti (Jan 21, 2011)

Vajramusti said:


> Hey Geezer- I remember seeing your picture in that LT book!!
> 
> Most of my sifu's books are out of print I believe.
> 
> joy chaudhuri



----------------------------------
PS. Geezer- I have several of your sifu's books. I once looked at that Meng book on Shaolin wing chun and gave it away.


The KT Chao and Weakland 3 volume set isn't bad. I corresponded briefly with the retired prof Weakland. Chao basically kept his wing chun to himself- did not teach publicly that I know of. Apparently he was a a private student of Ip man.

joy chaudhuri


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## tarzan (Jan 25, 2011)

geezer said:


> Dang, _there ain't no secrets in Kung-fu!_ Just good instruction and hard work.


:yoda:


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## qwksilver61 (Jan 28, 2011)

If she is hot.....take lessons from her.....


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## jtbdad (Jan 31, 2011)

I wish to thank everyone for their recommendations.  

John


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