# compassion



## jarrod (Jan 9, 2009)

one virtue i've been trying to cultivate lately is compassion.  i see a lot of people claim to value compassion, or who belong to religions that value compassion, but it is hard to see how they demonstrate it in their daily lives.  

so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?

all answers welcome whether or not they are martial arts related.

jf


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 9, 2009)

As with anything else with me, it's a case by case basis.

I have been known to empathize with/help people out who got hurt/experienced misfortune through no fault of their own.

I have also been known to laugh at people who brought their own pain down upon themselves by their own stupidity.

There is nothing wrong with compassion but be selective with it because you've only so much to go around.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jan 9, 2009)

Compassion is deeply rooted in empathy. If you seperate yourself and the subject it will be difficult to feel compassion.

You have to find unity or oneness with you and subject so there is no duality.

The idea of not wanting to suffer generates the idea of not wanting others to suffer. 

To practice compassion requires a strong desire to relief other's suffering.
It could be from the simplest gesture of prayer when you see someone suffering or it can be helping that person physical,spiritual or emotional.


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm compassionate to a fault. It's just who I am. And it's probably not good all the time, because it makes me let people get away with too much **** too my own detriment.


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## Brother John (Jan 9, 2009)

jarrod said:


> so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?
> 
> all answers welcome whether or not they are martial arts related.
> 
> jf


 
Yes, my personal belief system holds compassion in high regard.
I express it through my work, working with teens who are in trouble with the law. By caring for them regardless of how they treat me. By holding them accounatble so that hopefully they can learn responsibility.
things like that, as well as contributing to social programs for the homeless.

Your Brother(s keeper)
John


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## pete (Jan 9, 2009)

compassion is centric to buddhist philosophies, and therefore carry over to martial arts that emerged within the buddhist sects.  

on the other hand, balance is centric to taoist philosophies, and martial arts that emerged within those of taoist beliefs may see levels of compassion as excess, or an imbalance.

as an extreme, the ancient romans felt that compassion was a defect of the human condition, and felt the need to eradicate compassion within the young males to make them better 'romans'...


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## elder999 (Jan 9, 2009)

Psychologist Carl Jung once said that great deal of institutional religion seems designed to prevent the faithful from having a spiritual experience. Instead of teaching people how to live in peace, religious leaders often concentrate on marginal issues: Can women or gay people be ordained as priests or rabbis? Is contraception permissible? Is evolution compatible with the first chapter of Genesis? Instead of bringing people together, these distracting preoccupations actually encourage policies of exclusion, since they tend to draw attention to the differences between &#8220;us&#8221; and &#8220;them.&#8221;

These policies of exclusion can have dramatic consequences. Most notably they have given rise to the militant piety that we call fundamentalism, which erupted in every major world religion during the 20th century. Every fundamentalist movement, whether in Judaism, Christianity or Islam, is convinced that the modern secular establishment wants to destroy it. Fundamentalism is not inherently violent; most fundamentalists simply want to live what they regard as a good religious life in a world that seems increasingly hostile to faith-the _Amish_ are, obviously, fundamentalists. When a conflict has become entrenched in a region, though, as in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Chechnya-and with Sunni hostilities sometimes directed against Shia, *Iraq*-religious fundamentalists have gotten sucked into the escalating violence and become part of the problem. Even in the United States, members of the Christian Right believe that their faith is in jeopardy and that they have a sacred duty to protect it by attacking liberal opponents. When people feel that heir backs are to the wall, they often lash out aggressively. Hence the hatred that continues to cause so much turmoil around the world.

Such religiously inspired hatred represents a major defeat for religion.

That&#8217;s because, at their core, *all* the great world faiths-including Confucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam-agree on the supreme importance of compassion. The early sages and prophets all taught their glowers to cultivate a habit of empathy for all living beings.

Why then, do supposedly &#8220;religious&#8221; leaders declare war in God&#8217;s name? Why do some people use :&#8221;God&#8221; to give a sacred seal of approval to their own opinions?

I believe that these people have forgotten what it means to practice compassion. The word compassion does not, of course, mean to feel sorry for someone, but to feel _with_ others-to enter their point of view and realize that they have the same fears and sorrows as you. 

The essential dynamic of compassion is summed up in the golden rule, first(?) enunciated by Confucius in about 500 B.C. :



> *Do not do to others as you would not have done to you.*


 
Confucius taught his disciples to get into the habit of _shu_: &#8220;likening to oneself.&#8221; They had to discover what caused them pain, and make an effort to refrain from not inflicting that pain on others.

The Buddha also taught a version of the golden rule, and the Rabbi Hillel, the contemporary of Jesus, was once asked (by a Gentile) to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching while standing on one leg. Hillel stood on one leg and replied:



> * &#8220;That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah; the rest is just commentary; go and learn it!&#8221;*


 
Hillel did not mention any of the doctrines that were essential to Judaism, such as belief in one God, the Exodus, or adherence to the Laws of Moses.

Jesus simply taught the golden rule by telling his followers to love their enemies, and to never judge. In his parable of the last day, those who enter the Kingdom do not do so because they have adopted orthodox theology or correct sexual mores, but because they have fed the hungry, given drink to the thirsty, and visited the sick and criminals in prison. 

Islam is also committed to compassion. The bedrock message of the Koran is not to kill the infidels, but an insistence that it is wrong to build up a private fortune, and good to share your wealth fairly. On the Last Day the one question God asks of Muslims is whether they have looked after orphans, widows and the oppressed, and if they have not, they cannot enter Paradise.

All are also pretty clear that the practice of compassion must be consistent; it does not work if we are selective. Jesus explained that if we simply love those who are well disposed towards us, no effort is involved; we are simply banking up our own egoism and remain trapped in selfishness. I think that is why Jesus recommended his followers love their enemies; they were required to feel with people who would never feel affection towards them, and _extend their sympathy without feeling any benefit themselves._

Does that mean that we&#8217;re supposed to &#8220;love&#8221; Saddam Hussein, or Robert Mugabe, or Osama bin Laden? The practice of compassion has nothing to do with feelings. According to Thomas Aquinas, what we call love simply requires that we seek the good of another. If we allow our hatred and rage to fester, this does not hurt our enemies-it gratifies them-but we are diminishing ourselves. Anger is what Buddha called an &#8220;unskillful&#8221; emotion. Feelings of rage are natural, but if they overindulged they are unhelpful, since they often proceed from an inflated sense of our own importance.

Additionally, I have to say that I believe that one need not be &#8220;religious,&#8221; or believe in God/gods a &#8220;god&#8221;, to practice compassion. I know many atheists/agnostics who are truly conscious, concerned and compassionate people towards the rest of us. 

It is, however, a central tenet of most religious traditions, especially the major ones, in spite of what their more extreme adherents practice.
There are some religious people, I suspect, who would feel cheated if, when they arrived in heaven, they found everybody else there as well. Where is the _fun_ of religion if you can&#8217;t exclude people? 

The history of each faith tradition represents a ceaseless struggle between our inherent tendency to aggression and the virtue of compassion. Religiously inspired hatred has caused unimaginable suffering around the world, and throughout history. Auschwitz, the Gulags of Russia, the regime of Saddam Hussein, the terrorist actions of al Qaeda, the slavery of Africans and the genocide of Native Americans in the U.S. show the fearful cruelty to which humanity is prone towards when all sense of the sacred has been lost or distorted.

None of these atrocities could have taken place if people were properly educated in the simplest of principles, , the golden rule. We live in *one* world, and we need to learn to reach out in sympathy to those who have different opinions, at home and abroad. We need the compassionate ethic more than ever before.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 9, 2009)

Without irony, given that I'm tantermount to atheist - amen!


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## hkfuie (Jan 9, 2009)

Sometimes I stop and recognize that we are all these animals on this rock in space and the only rules are the rules we made up.  The only things we value are the things we decided to value.  We all have the job of defining who we are and what we stand for or not stand for.  We all are trying to figure out what to do with this gift of time we have alive...

When I recognize that, it is very easy to have compassion.

It happens often that I think I know what is going on in a situation, then I find out there is more to the story.

Reminds me all the time:  I don't know.  I can't judge.

I try to have special tolerance for the people who are just plain getting on my nerves...after all, if I have a problem, it's MY problem.  (i.e. THEY are not wrong to be who they are).


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## myusername (Jan 9, 2009)

jarrod said:


> one virtue i've been trying to cultivate lately is compassion.  i see a lot of people claim to value compassion, or who belong to religions that value compassion, but it is hard to see how they demonstrate it in their daily lives.
> 
> so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?
> 
> ...



1) Yes. I do not follow a religion but I do live my life by certain ethical principles. Developing an empathic and compassionate attitude to others is one of those principles.

2) My belief system and compassionate nature has led me towards a career in addiction nursing. I am passionate about working in this field of health care as I feel that this patient group are an underclass of people that on the whole British society and the media feels very comfortable judging. I am not religious but I believe there to be a lot of sense behind the saying _"There but for the grace of God go I"_

Outside of work I express my compassion by tutting loudly or shaking my head whenever I watch the news!


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## elder999 (Jan 9, 2009)

We, that is to say, _humans_ have an inherent tendency towards aggression that is part of our evolutionary makeup. How are we to "choose better," and why has there been, through the ages, such unanimous agreement in all the great faiths on the primacy of compassion? Truly religious people-atheistic protestations to the contrary notwithstanding-are _pragmatic._ The early prophets and sages did not preach the discipline of compassion because it sounded edifying, but because experience showed that it *worked*, that greed and selfishness were the cause of our personal misery, and that when we gave them up, we were happier.

Egotism can imprison us in an inferior version of ourselves, and impede our enlightement.

The safest way of combatting ego was dethrone ourselves from the center of our world and put others there. We *are* programmed for self-defense; human beings completed their biological evolution during the Paleolothic Period, when we became hunters-pretty much the baddest of the bad, who helped drive entire species of megafauna: mastodons, buffalo and sabre-toothed tiger, into extinction with nothing but _pointy sticks_, and probably did the same for our cousins the Neanderthal as well. Aggression is thus deeply written into our nature. If we make a consistent habit of countering this aggression, we probably do experience a change of consciousness.

We need _training_ in compassion for this to occur-it does not, to any great degree, come naturally. The ancient Greeks knew this. Every year, during their festivals, citizens watched tragedies written by Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripide and others, and they were a _course_ in compassion. Suffering was put on stage, and the audience was able to weep for people they normally would have nothing to do with.

These tragedies were part of religious festivals; they were designed to make the audience extend their sympathy to people such as Oedipus and Heracles. They gave people a liberating purification of the emotions that helped transform the horror and disgust inspired by these human tragedies into compassion. We need to find similarly imaginative ways to educate people today.

The history of each faith represents a ceaseless struggle between our inherent tendency towards aggression and the mitigating virtue of compassion


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## girlbug2 (Jan 9, 2009)

Yes my personal belief system values compassion. James reminds the bretheren in Chapter 2: "So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgement."

And of course Jesus' whole earthly ministry was a lesson in compassion, aka love. It's why he came, to save us from ourselves. For further details, see the New Testament.

As for how I express compassion...quite imperfectly. I'm one of those people who judges easily and quickly. When I perceive that somebody is in trouble because of their own faults (stupidity, arrogance, greed), it's easier to judge than to be compassionate. OTOH when I can empathize with somebody else's particular faults, it's easier to have compassion. My constant struggle is to be compassionate to people with whom I don't identify because their faults are different from mine.

You want to know who shows me the best example of compassion on this earth? Somebody who has no belief system as such, my labrador retriever. This shows me that it's not about the head, it's about the heart. He has plenty of that. So, when I sense my own hardness of heart, the only thing I can do about it is to pray that Jesus changes my heart. Then my head can follow.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm one of those horrible people who thinks that organised religion only preaches effective compassion towards those who agree with the particular belief system espoused - if you'll forgive the understatement, history shows that religions firmly believe in a distinct lack of compassion for those that do not.

Compassion and religion are two seperate subjects that weld together about as well as steel and aluminium. The former is about human interaction at the individual level, the latter is social control en mass.

However, that personal view aside, compassion and cooperation are two of the most important human emotions and are the ones that gave us the ability to organise societies and work to a common goal. Additionally, I do not agree that we are, by our natures, an aggressive species - we are instead a very fearful species. It is that fear that causes a lot of the problems that we 'tag' as aggression. I know that sounds a bit 'Jedi' but it's been my experience that the most aggressive people I've known have been the ones with the lowest self esteem and the most highly developed sense of 'false threat' fear.

In essense, they lack compassion because they can only see the world in shades of 'threat'; to use a poor analogy, they are incapable of putting themselves in someone elses shoes because they're too scared of somone stealing theirs.

Of course, it can be said that some are just "born bad" and it is hard to refute that some genetic mixes are so driven by immediate personal 'survival' (improvement of current lot) that the compassion we are speaking of, that causes necessary cooperation for mutual future gain, never gets a chance.


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## elder999 (Jan 9, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> However, that personal view aside, compassion and cooperation are two of the most important human emotions and are the ones that gave us the ability to organise societies and work to a common goal. Additionally, I do not agree that we are, by our natures, an aggressive species - we are instead a very fearful species. It is that fear that causes a lot of the problems that we 'tag' as aggression. I know that sounds a bit 'Jedi' but it's been my experience that the most aggressive people I've known have been the ones with the lowest self esteem and the most highly developed sense of 'false threat' fear.


 

Reptile brain, dude. It only knows how to repsond to the four "f's": *F*ight, *F*lee, *F*eed, and *F****. All that other stuff: emotion, whatever, leads to confusion and fear. That's how fear becomes anger. In the meantime, though, we are hardwired for aggression-and it's not necessarily an altogether negative trait. It's often aggression that leads to success in business, or sports, or any other number of endeavors. Of course, the fact that we are often symbolically "killing" our competition speaks volumes about that....:lol:


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## Sukerkin (Jan 9, 2009)

I think (oh the irony) that overcoming the dictates of the so-called 'Reptile Brain' is one of the marks of a 'successful' human being and also the marks of a successful society.

It may exert a useful influence in times of extreme stress but most often it is a hinderance not a help.


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## seasoned (Jan 9, 2009)

jarrod said:


> one virtue i've been trying to cultivate lately is compassion. i see a lot of people claim to value compassion, or who belong to religions that value compassion, but it is hard to see how they demonstrate it in their daily lives.
> 
> so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?
> 
> ...


 
Well, I cant tell you where I am, without telling you where I have been. As a young man I was angry. I couldnt have cared less about things, My only sense of compassion, came from my mother, but it was miss aligned, because I could do no wrong, in her eyes. I think she felt sorry for me, and tried to make up for the short comings of my Dad. My Mom taught me to, do unto others, while my Dad taught me to, do to others, before they, do to you. I guess you could call it a balance, but how was I to know the difference, so I followed in my Dads shoes, because it was easier, and I trusted, and forgave, no one. I got into trouble early on in life, and made mistakes. It was easy to justify it all, because it was always someone elses fault. Please dont get me wrong, my parents did the best they could, at the time. It wasnt until I walked in a DoJo for the first time, that I truly began to understand life a little better. My Sensei was very strict, but at the same time very fair. The MA was a molding process for me, that changed the rest of my life. It can only be explained, and understood, by other martial artist, someone that has walked the walk. When the physical body has been taken to a certain place in training, it allows the mind to open up. The severity of training in an atmosphere of fairness and accountable, lends itself to humility. I feel it was the door way of humility, that opened up to this feeling of compassion, that genuine feeling, for the concerns of others. If taught right, the MA is an education in life, something that will permeate all aspects of your life, in a most positive way. After many years in life, the greatest thing I have learned is, you can't change anybody, but by changing yourself, it definitely gives you a whole new outlook.


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## seasoned (Jan 9, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> we are instead a very fearful species. It is that fear that causes a lot of the problems that we 'tag' as aggression. I know that sounds a bit 'Jedi' but it's been my experience that the most aggressive people I've known have been the ones with the lowest self esteem and the most highly developed sense of 'false threat' fear.


 

Excellent insight.


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## SensibleManiac (Jan 10, 2009)

I would just like to add that I think critical thinking skills and compassion are the most important traits a person can develop.
Although I'm not where I would like to be in these areas, their development is a priority on my path.


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 11, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Well, I cant tell you where I am, without telling you where I have been. As a young man I was angry. I couldnt have cared less about things, My only sense of compassion, came from my mother, but it was miss aligned, because I could do no wrong, in her eyes. I think she felt sorry for me, and tried to make up for the short comings of my Dad. My Mom taught me to, do unto others, while my Dad taught me to, do to others, before they, do to you. I guess you could call it a balance, but how was I to know the difference, so I followed in my Dads shoes, because it was easier, and I trusted, and forgave, no one. I got into trouble early on in life, and made mistakes. It was easy to justify it all, because it was always someone elses fault. Please dont get me wrong, my parents did the best they could, at the time. It wasnt until I walked in a DoJo for the first time, that I truly began to understand life a little better. My Sensei was very strict, but at the same time very fair. The MA was a molding process for me, that changed the rest of my life. It can only be explained, and understood, by other martial artist, someone that has walked the walk. When the physical body has been taken to a certain place in training, it allows the mind to open up. The severity of training in an atmosphere of fairness and accountable, lends itself to humility. I feel it was the door way of humility, that opened up to this feeling of compassion, that genuine feeling, for the concerns of others. If taught right, the MA is an education in life, something that will permeate all aspects of your life, in a most positive way. After many years in life, the greatest thing I have learned is, you can't change anybody, but by changing yourself, it definitely gives you a whole new outlook.



Thanks for sharing this. I think the fact that through Martial Arts you gained insight into your take on life, and found a better way, is great. :asian:


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## hkfuie (Jan 11, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Well, I cant tell you where I am, without telling you where I have been. As a young man I was angry. I couldnt have cared less about things, My only sense of compassion, came from my mother, but it was miss aligned, because I could do no wrong, in her eyes. I think she felt sorry for me, and tried to make up for the short comings of my Dad. My Mom taught me to, do unto others, while my Dad taught me to, do to others, before they, do to you. I guess you could call it a balance, but how was I to know the difference, so I followed in my Dads shoes, because it was easier, and I trusted, and forgave, no one. I got into trouble early on in life, and made mistakes. It was easy to justify it all, because it was always someone elses fault. Please dont get me wrong, my parents did the best they could, at the time. It wasnt until I walked in a DoJo for the first time, that I truly began to understand life a little better. My Sensei was very strict, but at the same time very fair. The MA was a molding process for me, that changed the rest of my life. It can only be explained, and understood, by other martial artist, someone that has walked the walk. When the physical body has been taken to a certain place in training, it allows the mind to open up. The severity of training in an atmosphere of fairness and accountable, lends itself to humility. I feel it was the door way of humility, that opened up to this feeling of compassion, that genuine feeling, for the concerns of others. If taught right, the MA is an education in life, something that will permeate all aspects of your life, in a most positive way. After many years in life, the greatest thing I have learned is, you can't change anybody, but by changing yourself, it definitely gives you a whole new outlook.


 
Seasoned, I relate so much to your story.  I was a very different person when I took my first martial arts class.  Embracing the lessons I have learned through toughing it out in class, facing myself because there is nowhere to hide who I am in martial arts class, has changed who I am.

Thanks for posting.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 11, 2009)

This is an interesting topic. It's easy to say yes, I'm compassionate, but the more compassion you spread around, while seeing it taken for granted and none returned, giving all of yourself, but finding no help, support or sympathy when everything falls apart in your life, makes it easy to become jaded and feel like people as a whole don't deserve your compassion. So then you become very selective whom you will have compassion for, and slowly, I think withdraw and lose a bit of your humanity, until somthing like this becomes your motto:



> I am the Heart of Darkness.
> I know no fear, but rather I instill it in my enemies.
> I am the destoyer of worlds.
> I know the power of the Dark Side.
> ...


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## hkfuie (Jan 12, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> This is an interesting topic. It's easy to say yes, I'm compassionate, but the more compassion you spread around, while seeing it taken for granted and none returned, giving all of yourself, but finding no help, support or sympathy when everything falls apart in your life, makes it easy to become jaded and feel like people as a whole don't deserve your compassion. So then you become very selective whom you will have compassion for, and slowly, I think withdraw and lose a bit of your humanity, until somthing like this becomes your motto:


 
But having a person in my life who never gave anything to me without strings attached, I learned for certain that nothing is any gift at all unless given without expectations of something in return.

When I give compassion, I give b/c of the environment it creates within me.  On one level, this may be described as selfish.  It is.  But given without the idea that the person will give me something in return means I get my reward regardless of how the other person takes it.  This means I don't have to suffer if the other person does not respond in the way I want.  They can do with my gift what they want.  It is a true gift.


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## Live True (Jan 12, 2009)

jarrod said:


> so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?


 
Jarrod, 
Good topic, and thank you for posting!

My personal belief system does value compassion for all of life, not just human life.  As others have stated far more eloquently than I could, it's often a subjective and situational reaction and practice.  However, I think the first step toward practicing compassion is to give it to yourself as well as to others...even if only in small amounts.

As Sukerkin stated, so many people react out of fear, and that is based in low self esteem.  It is so very hard to be compassionate, truly compassionate and not just fake niceness, to others if you cannot do the same to yourself.  I see so many people that berate themselves for every little failing, real and imagined. And when a project, relationship, etc. goes wrong..thier first question is "what did I do wrong?".

So, small steps for those who find this self-compassion difficult.  Start by asking "what went wrong" instead...and then take it as a chance to learn something instead of beat yourself up.

As for others, I almost always (human...don't forget) try to see the other person's viewpoint before I react.  It's a work in progress for me, but I've learned a lot from attempting to see their p.o.v.  I've noticed that if you make the attempt, some folks will loosen up and let you know the rest of the story...some...will only get angrier, because you're taking away thier ability to be self-righteous..ah well.

A bit rambly, but there's my current thoughts on the matter!


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## Cryozombie (Jan 12, 2009)

hkfuie said:


> I learned for certain that nothing is any gift at all unless given without expectations of something in return.


 
Yes, but there is a difference in doing somthing with the intention fo accepting a reward, and doing somthing with no intention of collecting anything from it, but then becoming jaded by others and realizing how much of yourself you gave freely, and feeling like a schmuk for it because there is little left.

What was that cheezy 80's Song?  "What about me? It isn't fair... I had enough now I want my share, but you just take more than  you give"

(and you will forgive me if thats misquoted, cuz I ran that from memory)


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## teekin (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm not quite sure if this is True compassion or not. I often act to relieve anothers' suffering as seeing them in pain causes me to feel that pain. For me to do nothing is intolerable as the pain I am in will increase, to know that I can do something to relieve their distress and thus my own but made a  choice not to is like commiting emotional suicide. I am fully aware that " there, but for the Grace of God, go I". I don't think you get handed a box of love or patience or trust or compassion  at the beginning of life and when it's all gone, well too bad so sad. I think the world is filled with an infinite amount of love and patience and compassion. I'm sorry you don't see enough of it, but I promise it's there. 
lori


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 13, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Yes, but there is a difference in doing somthing with the intention fo accepting a reward, and doing somthing with no intention of collecting anything from it, but then becoming jaded by others and realizing how much of yourself you gave freely, and feeling like a schmuk for it because there is little left.
> 
> What was that cheezy 80's Song?  "What about me? It isn't fair... I had enough now I want my share, but you just take more than  you give"
> 
> (and you will forgive me if thats misquoted, cuz I ran that from memory)



I understand what you're saying here. I think compassion is something you have, not something you give. Something you give, even to the undeserving, is forgiveness. Compassion is empathy. When you've had compassion for a person by taking other factors into account for their behavior, and find that others do not grant you the same understanding, you get jaded. You become a little less quick in your ability, or willingness, to sympathize.


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## jarrod (Jan 13, 2009)

a couple of people have mentioned the selfish aspects of compassion.  personally i don't see a conflict with this; i think it often leads to understanding that we are, ultimately, all in the same boat.  in my experience, right actions more often than not benefit all parties involved.  humanity would have crumbled long ago if helping others were not beneficial to ourselves as well.

jf


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## elder999 (Jan 13, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> I understand what you're saying here. I think compassion is something you have, not something you give. Something you give, even to the undeserving, is forgiveness.* Compassion is empathy. *When you've had compassion for a person by taking other factors into account for their behavior, and find that others do not grant you the same understanding, you get jaded. You become a little less quick in your ability, or willingness, to sympathize.


 

I'm going to start with the bolded portion, because this is a common misconception:



			
				the Usually excellent Merriam Webster English Language Technical Manual said:
			
		

> *com·pas·sion*
> 
> sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it :*together with a desire to alleviate it *
> *em·pa·thy *
> ...


 
So what we have here are two very different things. THe best explanation I have of empathy (because not everyone feels it, and not all the time) is something that happened when I was a kid: a girl was on the balance beam in gymnastics, went up in the air, and came right down on her pubic bone. SHe was one of those real ruddy skinned redheads, and between the noise of her crotch hitting the beam, the blood draining from her face, and the way she just kind of melted off the balance beam, _it was as though everyone there, in their own way, *felt* some part of her pain_. Some people even crossed their legs and groaned......

On the other hand, to rush over, ask her if she's okay (yeah, right!), give first aid, tell her she's going to be okay, get her to the hospital (not necessary in this case), get her ice, a drink of water, a blanket,a pillow, a favorite stuffed animal, etc.: all of these are displays of compassion-one doesn't necessarily _feel_ her pain, but one is aware of her distress, and tries _to ease her pain._

Both are something that you _have_, but compassion, in that the desire to alleviate suffering is inherent to it, is also a _capcity_ to give.One can "feel" it without acting, of course-a variety of wretched circumstances of history where people were _unable_ to act come to mind-but the _desire_ to act is still part of the feeling.

(And, to get personal for a moment, Pam, your equating "compassion" with "empathy" is telling in light of your posting earlier that you "sometimes have too much compassion," and that it's "just in your nature." What a _kind_ person you must be!)


All of us (otherwise psychologically healthy human beings) possess a certain inherentcapacity for compassion, just as we do aggression, and in most of us, it's fairly balanced-you pretty much have to override one to exercise the other to excess-and there are a fair number of ways that we *are* trained to override our natural compassion in most societies-the military comes to mind, though this varies, and I have no personal experience. The only institutions that come to mind that actively _train_ in developing and exercising compassion *are* religious institutions, and some medical training programs. Which brings another question to mind in light of the original post: if your personal belief system _values _compassion, how do you _train_ it-in yourself, and more importantly, nurture it and train it in your students ? Or your children?

For myself, it begins with the practice of _kindness_, something I value more than anything else in human experience-though I often fail to be kind, deliberately or through omission. In any case, I don't really see a "selfish" aspect to compassion, though it may stem in some from the ego. I think questions of motive are complicated in instances like these: for years I lugged around a crash bag in my car as an EMT, and had more than a few instances in my everyday life to play "good Samaritan," until the professionals arrived-I never received or expected any recognition, in fact, I was just doing what I was obligated to do. 

The good Samaritan is one of my favorite stories-it really sums up the whole of Jesus's teaching. You see a lot of "John 3:16," bandied about:"For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son," and some Christians will swear that it's the most important verse in the Bible. I say *it's not- *it's Luke 10:25-37:

One day an expert on Moses' laws came to test Jesus' orthodoxy by asking him this question: _"Teacher, what does a man need to do to live forever in heaven?"_ Jesus replied, "_What does Moses' law say about it?" It says that you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind.* And you must love your neighbor just as much as you love yourself.*"  Jesus told him. "Do this and you shall live!" The man wanted to justify (his lack of love for some kinds of people), so he asked, "Which neighbors?" Jesus replied with an illustration:__

 "A Jew going on a trip from Jerusalem to Jericho was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes and money, and beat him up and left him lying half dead beside the road. "By chance a Jewish priest came along; and when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. A Jewish Temple-assistant walked over and looked at him lying there, but then went on. "But a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw him, he felt deep pity. Kneeling beside him the Samaritan soothed his wounds with medicine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his donkey and walked along beside him till they came to an inn, where he nursed him through the night. The next day he handed the innkeeper two twenty-dollar bills and told him to take care of the man. 'If his bill runs higher than that,' he said, 'I'll pay the difference the next time I am here.' "Now which of these three would you say was a neighbor to the bandits' victim?" The man replied, "The one who showed him some pity." Then Jesus said, "Yes, now go and do the same." 

The Jews and Samaritans had been enemies for hundreds of years. The Jews of Jesus' society considered the Samaritans to be ceremonially unclean, socially outcast, religious heretics . Yet, the Samaritan took pity on the poor man who had been robbed and beaten. He gave freely of both his time and his money to help this Jewish man who was not only a stranger, but also an enemy from a foreign country. In his parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus challenges us to *"Go and do the same."*

Be kind.
_


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 14, 2009)

elder999 said:


> I'm going to start with the bolded portion, because this is a common misconception:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_

You are right. Beautiful distinction. :asian:

I equated compassion with empathy because I feel you must have empathy for a person to feel compassion for them. But compassion does go beyond feeling empathy. It should include an action. ie: helping the homeless, etc. because you feel empathy and have compassion for them._


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## Cryozombie (Jan 14, 2009)

Bah. What have the homeless ever done for me?  <--- See?  There I go again.


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## jarrod (Jan 14, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Bah. What have the homeless ever done for me?  <--- See?  There I go again.



a guy i know was walking down the street when a homeless guy asked him for some change.  he said "change comes from within" & kept walking.  but then he's kind of a jerk.

jf


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## MA-Caver (Jan 14, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Bah. What have the homeless ever done for me?


Given you opportunities to be human.


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## teekin (Jan 14, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> ]Bah. What have the homeless ever done for me?[/B]  <--- See?  There I go again.



"There, but for the grace of God, go I." I am fairly sure this is not the life he chooses to have nor does he choose to beg, it's survival. My pocket change is a very very small price to give him a bit of hope and preserve what dignity he has left. 
lori


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## MA-Caver (Jan 14, 2009)

Grendel308 said:


> "There, but for the grace of God, go I." I am fairly sure this is not the life he chooses to have nor does he choose to beg, it's survival. My pocket change is a very very small price to give him a bit of hope and preserve what dignity he has left.
> lori


Actually it does a bit more than that... (having personally experienced long term homelessness)... it says "somebody cares". 
This of course depends upon the manner of giving. If it's in the spirit of "get outta my face" then you might've well just said "no" and moved on. 
Careful too on just walking up and handing out some change/cash and saying: "here ya go..." For that shows pity and a magnanimous ego which can be insulting to some... they just might not WANT your hand-outs or help. Take time out of your "busy schedule" and talk to them for a couple minutes (careful here as well) helps give the impression that there is someone who would listen. Also remember this... just like *you*... they're still human enough that they can hear the sincerity (or insincerity)  in your voice when you say: "I wish I could do something more to help you out." 

Either way... compassion is an action. Nobody ever was compassionate watching starving children on tv and shaking their heads saying "that's so sad" or seeing a homeless person getting turned down repeatedly when asking for handouts and not contributing themselves. 

Almost all of the great religious "founders" (Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, et al) taught about compassion and caring for the poor, the sick, and less fortunate. In their own way the poor help us measure who and what we are by how we treat and care for them. 

For me; yes, compassion is a part of my personal value system and I express it by however I can doing whatever I can. 
Last monday I had appointment with my job coach. Arrived early and there was another man I'm acquainted with walking around huddled against himself to ward off the cold. Told him to get in my vehicle and warm up. He explained that he slept all night in his car, freezing and walked to where we were. He asked if I could give him a ride to pick up his paycheck and to a liquor store so he could buy himself some alcohol. 
Normally I don't enable alcoholics (being one myself...recovering), but he was cold and in miserable straits. Having been there what else could I do? 
Say no of course. It's a hard life ya know? Hard times for everyone. 

How could I maintain the value of compassion if I don't live it.


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## teekin (Jan 15, 2009)

No Caver, the one Gentleman I see and talk to on a fairly regular basis I would never dismiss or pity. He is struggling through life the best way he knows how, just like me, just like you. What gets him through sometimes is the oblivion that the bottle brings; who am I to judge. When I give him what I can the money is his, for rent or food or whatever buys him a bit of peace. 
lori


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## MA-Caver (Jan 25, 2009)

Grendel308 said:


> No Caver, the one Gentleman I see and talk to on a fairly regular basis I would never dismiss or pity. He is struggling through life the best way he knows how, just like me, just like you. What gets him through sometimes is the oblivion that the bottle brings; who am I to judge. When I give him what I can the money is his, for rent or food or whatever buys him a bit of peace.
> lori


Lori, ... (I say this gently) have you ever been IN the bottle? Day after day, night after night, week after week, month after month. Where food doesn't matter? Where just trying to STAY in that oblivion on a permanent basis is a long frustrating battle, because each time you wake up you're sober and reality tries to intrude back in and you've no money to buy more because you drank it all because you've found out that no matter how much you drank... it's not enough? 
I've been there. 
But you're talking one gentleman and my heart goes out to his struggle. 
I've lived among dozens and known hundreds out of the thousands in this country. I'm still no judge but my own sense of compassion (for them) is in direct proportion to how much they want to stop destroying themselves.
-------------


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## MA-Caver (Jan 25, 2009)

Found this in a book I was reading and thought about this thread.



> "We must know the pain of loss; because if we never knew it, we would have no compassion for others, and we would become monsters of self-regard, creatures of unalloyed self-interest. The terrible pain of loss teaches humility to our prideful kind, has the power to soften uncaring hearts, to make a better person of a good one."
> ~Dean Koontz "The Darkest Night Of The Year"



I like it. Probably going to make it part of my signature.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 25, 2009)

Heartening reading through the past few posts here.  

Not only does it give me evidence of the hope I hold that there are still more decent people than otherwise in the world but it gave me a Koontz quote that gives me pause for thought on the cause of the rising selfishness of the generations that have followed on behind us.


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## JackDenning (Jan 25, 2009)

jarrod said:


> one virtue i've been trying to cultivate lately is compassion. i see a lot of people claim to value compassion, or who belong to religions that value compassion, but it is hard to see how they demonstrate it in their daily lives.
> 
> so this is a two-parter 1) does your personal belief system value compassion? & 2) how do you express this?
> 
> ...


 

I once had a female boss at my last workplace who targeted me with absolute aggression. The reason why was misplaced on her part, but unfortunately I wasn't able to counter those reasons as they were never the subject of discussion. I copped her aggression for two years straight - aggressive emails, threats, hateful looks, potential destruction of my career and so on, and I fought this onslaught with all that I had, until eventually senior management, who'd had enough of me fighting back, ordered me to shut the hell up or leave. 

A few weeks later, this same woman,  called me in absolute desperation from a seminar, crying her eyes out because she needed my help with a work issue. You might be thinking, what work issue could invoke such desperation, but trust me, career wise, the consequences for her would have been devastating without my help.

Did I help? Yes, completely, and with sincere compassion. I saved her career, basically, and averted a major problem. 

This scenario in my life always reminds me of the two guys fighting at the top of a cliff. When the bad guy is hanging on to the edge with one hand and screaming out for your help (after you've flipped him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) do you haul him back over, or let him fall to his death? I guess it all depends on what he's done to become a bad guy to begin with. 

I still sometimes wonder if I should have let this woman fall. But for some reason I still keep coming back to the same conclusion, being that helping was the right thing to do. The universe offerred me justified revenge. I declined that offer, and felt good about it afterwards. I still do.

JD


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## teekin (Jan 26, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Lori, ... (I say this gently) *have you ever been IN the bottle? Day after day, night after night, week after week, month after month. Where food doesn't matter? Where just trying to STAY in that oblivion *on a permanent basis is a long frustrating battle, because each time you wake up you're sober and reality tries to intrude back in and you've no money to buy more because you drank it all because you've found out that no matter how much you drank... it's not enough?
> I've been there.
> But you're talking one gentleman and my heart goes out to his struggle.
> I've lived among dozens and known hundreds out of the thousands in this country. I'm still no judge but my own sense of compassion (for them) is in direct proportion to how much they want to stop destroying themselves.
> -------------



Well that depends on whats in the bottle doesn't it? There are lots of way to find oblivion and ...........sometimes it finds you. And you don't want to come back, better to stay in oblivion, nothingness. It's quiet, peaceful, there is no pain, no one can touch you,hurt you.  I understand the need for oblivion.
lori


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## Dao (Mar 8, 2009)

I think true compassion takes a life time to achieve.  I highly doubt you can achieve it in a few years.  Can you be compassionate in all situations and with everyone?  Probably not, only time will tell when you run into problems.  I know I am not truly compassionate yet but i am trying to be.   One thing my father taught me is when something goes wrong look at yourself.  I never listened to him when I was younger but I see it now.


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