# GM Pellegrini in Black Belt!



## Hollywood1340 (Jan 19, 2004)

I thought it was pretty cool. Need to check it out. Enjoy!


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## glad2bhere (Jan 22, 2004)

Just another self-promotional by a commercial entity. Can't see anything special in this article I have not seen plenty in many other issues. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## MJS (Jan 22, 2004)

How was it self promotional??  If that was the case, then everybody that has a write up in a magazine could be guilty of the same thing right?

Mike


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## glad2bhere (Jan 22, 2004)

Dear Mike: 

Absolutely, 100% right on the money!!!  Ask yourself how much more you know about Pelligrini, his art, the manner in which he teaches, his curriculum, the rationale for the choices he has made regarding his managerial style and so forth. In other words how much more do you know about this guy as a person and a member of the KMA community?  Now start comparing the articles for the last two years.  Lets face it, that magazine is the "Glamour" magazine of the MA community---- pages of advertising glued together with insipid articles. Even TAEKWONDO TIMES does a better job!! Hell, Pacific Rim does a better job!  Take a look at JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS sometime. You read the articles and you walk away knowing something. After reading Pelligrinis' article you know that he has an opinion and he is the head of his own organization that he thinks is something great. Well, NO KIDDING! How many other folks have come through that magazine and said the same thing? 

I know quite a few KMA practitioners who wish that their arts would be taken more seriously, or given more regard. Guess what, folks, this AIN'T the way to do it!!. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## arnisador (Jan 22, 2004)

See also:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12291

Black Belt is more and more about promoting videos, like Budo Intl. (the worst offender).


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## glad2bhere (Jan 23, 2004)

Who is BUDO INTERNATIONAL?  Is that the one out of the UK? 

Inquiring minds want to know. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 23, 2004)

I missed the article in BB. Which issue is it in maybe I just haven't seen it on the stands yet This area is sadly lacking in Martial Arts related magizines


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## MJS (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tshadowchaser _
> *I missed the article in BB. Which issue is it in maybe I just haven't seen it on the stands yet This area is sadly lacking in Martial Arts related magizines *



March 2004 issue of BB

Mike


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## MJS (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by glad2bhere _
> *Dear Mike:
> 
> Absolutely, 100% right on the money!!!  Ask yourself how much more you know about Pelligrini, his art, the manner in which he teaches, his curriculum, the rationale for the choices he has made regarding his managerial style and so forth. In other words how much more do you know about this guy as a person and a member of the KMA community?  Now start comparing the articles for the last two years.  Lets face it, that magazine is the "Glamour" magazine of the MA community---- pages of advertising glued together with insipid articles. Even TAEKWONDO TIMES does a better job!! Hell, Pacific Rim does a better job!  Take a look at JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS sometime. You read the articles and you walk away knowing something. After reading Pelligrinis' article you know that he has an opinion and he is the head of his own organization that he thinks is something great. Well, NO KIDDING! How many other folks have come through that magazine and said the same thing?
> ...



You're correct on many points.  BB does have ALOT of promos!  Second, I really dont know too much about the KMA due to the fact that I dont train in them.  I have met JP 1 time, and have read many articles about him.  I did however, like the way he taught and what he has done for the martial arts world overall with his style of Hapkido.  When I was at the seminar, he was teaching things that blended VERY well with what I had already trained in.  His approach was quick, simple and to the point!  IMO, I think that alot of times, he gets bashed because he made some changes, and there are MANY people out there that cant or wont accept that!  I see the same thing with Kenpo, which I have trained in for 17yrs.  There are things in that art that IMO, are not that impressive, and there are things that IMO, should be added, such as some grappling.  I constantly get heat from the "die hards" about my views, but you know what....I really dont care what they think.  We all train for different reasons and have different goals.  My goals are obviously VERY different from theirs.  Does that make me any less of a Kenpoist? I dont believe it does.  Does it make JP and less of a Hapkido Inst.  I dont believe so.  Just like in Kenpo, you have many different Inst. who teach in different ways.  I suppose the most important thing that should be looked at is, does his art get the job done? Can someone learn effective things?  Is he a good Inst.?  IMO, if you answer yes to any of those, then he's doing his job.

Mike


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## glad2bhere (Jan 23, 2004)

Dear Mike: 

 I think that the point you bring up has been hashed over quite a bit, on many occasions and in many places. For myself I have some pretty strong opinions about Pelligrini and what he does, etc., etc.,. Just can't bring mysle to go down that road one more time. He seems to serve a purpose and when people want what he provides--- well--- thats where they go. 

The point that I was wanting to make is that BLACK BELT magazine has shown a penchant for providing only the most superficial and poorly researched material available. Over the years they tend to exploit whatever the current trend in various arts are and pay very little attention to proofing the material for glaring mistakes. Among some of their misrepresentations are articles on Kuk Sool, HwaRangdo, and Hapkido in which the same old songs are republished over and over again without benefit of supporting documentation, citations or references. In short, if the guy is well-known and he says so, they print it. In like manner it is not unusual to see them reprinting old chestnuts like "kung-fu (sic) began with Bodhidarma" and "Bruce Lee is the greatest martial artist who ever lived". What you won't find are articles on the life, times and philosophy of Judo greats such as Anton Geesink and Mifune'. You won't find articles on the comparitive characteristics of different sword traditions. You won't find articles which track on the growing embarrassments in the TaeKwondo community and its organizations. Nothing provocative, in depth or deeply researched. It would not surprise me in the least to find out, years later, that there actually was no BLACK BELT magazine but only a front for one of John Gradens' original concepts! :rofl: 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## bdparsons (Jan 23, 2004)

"Does it make JP any less of a Hapkido Inst. I dont believe so."

The issue is whether John Pellegrini was ever a "Hapkido instructor" to begin with. The ability to include basic joint locks into a mix-match of elements from various arts and stick a marketable name on it (Hapkido) does not a Hapkido instructor (or master) make. At least have the backbone to call what you do something unique. Excellent marketing to a gullible public. In my opinion it does make him less of a person. 

Respects,
Bill Parsons


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## MJS (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by bdparsons _
> *"Does it make JP any less of a Hapkido Inst. I dont believe so."
> 
> The issue is whether John Pellegrini was ever a "Hapkido instructor" to begin with. The ability to include basic joint locks into a mix-match of elements from various arts and stick a marketable name on it (Hapkido) does not a Hapkido instructor (or master) make. At least have the backbone to call what you do something unique. Excellent marketing to a gullible public. In my opinion it does make him less of a person.
> ...



JP never trained under a Hapkido Inst.????  Again, I dont follow the KMA, but I thought that the guy he trained under was doing hapkido.

Mike


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## iron_ox (Jan 24, 2004)

Hello all,

Seriously, you really thought that Pellegrini was Hapkido? PLEASE!  He was given an HONORARY 1st Dan by Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser because Pellegrini begged him to help salvage his flagging TaeKwonDo Program.  Prior to that, he had no grades in Hapkido at all.

According to the AHA, Pellegrini is unable to do many of the complex hand movements in Hapkido due to weakness and injury to his hands - so his "modification for modernization" are just his lack of physical ability.  

Pellegrini then jumped to Myung, Kwang Sik (WHF) and PAID his was to 6th DAN - he received his rank at the same time as another questionable Hapkidoist named Guther Bauer - weekend warriors that got grades at a time I fear Myung might just have been looking for a cash infusion.  I say this because having met and seen techniques of some "real" Myung 3rd Dans, Pellegrini does not at all seem to have absorbed any of the complex range of skills that Myung teaches. And he got a 6th Dan from Myung - maybe just a "Please get lost" grade...

Then, Pelligrini jumps to Seo, In Sun of the World Kido Federation - himself only a THIRD dan in Hapkido, and 9th in Kuk Sool Kon.  He then awards Pelligrini Grandmaster Status in Hapkido (even though he is not ranked high enough in that art to do so) - Pelligrini, I believe, fully knowing he has limited knowledge of real Hapkido calls his stuff Combat Hapkido and says he has gotten rid of all the unneeded stuff.  It is true enough that Combat Hapkido is limited in scope, but not because Pellegrini "selected" techniques - he just never knew them!

His "Hapkido Career" did not start until 1990ish - Myung in 1993 -4 then BLAMMO Grandmaster in 1999 - 2000ish.  

Pellegrini is the perfect example of all that is wrong with KMA in the US, when instructors allow belt hopping, and promote for the cash, the result is the "New but not New" garbage like Combat Hapkido.

Yep, the stuff sells, in the US when a person makes a hard task seem easy with a new formula, Americans jump at the chance, even if the results are less than spectacular - hey, the "job" still got done right?  Simple methods to hard work rarely succeed - but in the US they are seem as gossple - look at Ron Popeel and Ronco - take a hard job, make it look done fast, even if halfa**, and poof, 10 million veggimatics will sell.

Make Hapkido look like it can be learned in weekend seminars with little practice - or pain - and poof giant organization in 3 years...pitiful.

BTW - Combat Hapkido - ain't that like saying "Blue blue"?

Pellegrini is just a tool (marketing that is).

My two cents.

Sincerely,

Kevin


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## glad2bhere (Jan 24, 2004)

Dear Mike: 

"Doing" a Hapkido art and "studying" Hapkido are very different. 

Pelligrini started his Hapkido experience with Mike Wollmerhauser and then rapidly shifted through a number of teachers in order to garner rank. He finally got an 8th dan from In Sun Seo through Seos' organization (World Kido Federation) because he (Pelligrini) had put together a large number of schools and 7th, 8th and 9th dans are often betowed as administrative, not technical, ranks in those cases.  Pelligrini is a business man who teaches an amalgam of techniques from various sources and styles it a form of Hapkido.  He is not the only person who does this. However, I would point out that if I studied Karate, Muay Thai, Penjat Silat and Taekwondo, mixed the various techniques and taught the result, I myself could not in good conscience call what I do "Taekwondo". Pelligrini is cut from different cloth. When looking for a more orthodox form of Hapkido there are some qualities that you may want to consider. 

1.) Most hapkido arts (with one notable exception) usually trace themselves back to Choi Yong Sul even if through one of his students. 

2.) Many but not all Hapkido arts teach their curriculums as Mu-Do or "martial arts systems" usually including weaponry who use reflects the same biomechanics as the emptyhand material. 

3.) Many, but not all Hapkido arts rise through three levels of sophistication in their execution including yu sool, then hapki yu sool, then hapki sool--- in that order. 

4.) Most if not all reputable schools align with a paticular teacher and reflect the material of that teacher. This is something like a career choice and part of the growth of character in Hapkido is resolving to stick with that teacher through thick and thin even if it is not always easy or self-serving. 

5.) Most, if not all Hapkido traditions have rank and mat-hour requirements that one must meet in order to rise through the ranks with sufficient time to become competent in the art, its material, values and beliefs. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## MJS (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by iron_ox _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MJS (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by glad2bhere _
> *Dear Mike:
> 
> "Doing" a Hapkido art and "studying" Hapkido are very different.
> ...



Bruce- Thanks for the reply.

Mike


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## Hollywood1340 (Jan 24, 2004)

To see is to be decieved but to feel is to believe-Ed Parker I've bodied for GMP, and do not doubt is abilties. I've met him several times. It works for me.


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## glad2bhere (Jan 24, 2004)

Dear C : 

I'm a pretty strong believer in following ones' guts. Just because I would not follow Pelligrinis' approach doesn't mean that it does not satisfy needs for other people. I mean, people could say the same thing about me, if it comes to that. Why, someone could ask, would I obsess about this little move or that bit of correction, this history or that tradition? Why be so darn anal about such things?  I bet my answer might not be too far from Pelligrinis in as much as we both could say, "hey-- thats my take on it". 

I tend to be pretty traditional, don't hold much with commercial approaches or cutting corners. 53 and I still get out on the mat and take my lumps from kids half my age. But I am not saying this is for everyone. Its my take on the Hapkido arts. Were I you and found that Pelligrini really fits your bill, I would stay with him and hold on tight. Some people can go their whole MA careers and not find a teacher that fits.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## markulous (Jan 29, 2004)

My Sifu trained with Pellegrini and showed me some of the stuff that he brought back and it's very useful.  I honostly don't give a darn what he calls his art.  Names don't mean much.  If it's combat hapkido or rubber baby buggy bumpers.  Albeit the latter is not that intimidating, if it kicks @$$ it kicks @$$.


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## glad2bhere (Jan 29, 2004)

Dear Markulous: 

I appreciate your enthusiasm. I would add just one other spin on this. 

Traditional Hapkido is taught within the context of being a Mu-Do and is heavily  influenced by the Buddhist/Confucian ethos as laid out in the O-GAE (lit: "five tenents"). I feel that the technique is an important part of the Hapkido arts but it needs to be balanced with a value system that governs how and when the arts are applied. Whenever I have run into those schools which heavily emphacized practicality, it seems that values, ethics and guidelines tend to get nudged to one side. I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and shave their head and put on a saffron robe. Only that along with the belief that focuses on "whatever works" I believe there also needs to be as much focus on "whatever guides".  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Hollywood1340 (Jan 29, 2004)

My Sabum has also trained extensivly in traditional Hapkido. I do find that "pure" CH is lacking depth and feeling when it comes to the Do side of things and am pushing him to add some of that back. I like to think I move well for my level, but feel I'm missing some of the depth I would like to have as far as understanding the how and the why. Not sure if what I just typed made sense, but yeah. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. CH works, but as was already mentioned, not for everyone. I've been blessed with an instructor who really has brodened my horizons and am glad to be having to work for what I recieve. I just thought it was cool to see my GM in BB.


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## Chattan (Feb 6, 2004)

Lets look at this from a different perspective.  Lets remove the political and lineage arguments and view this from a purely functional and effective point of view.  Are the techniques, tactics and strategies taught in the article of use before, during and after violent altercations?  Can the 35 year old mother of 2 apply what is taught and survive a violent assault?  It has the word "combat" placed in front and its focus is completely focused on self-defense.  So, is this "art" effective in developing self-defense skills or not?  Joe.


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## Hollywood1340 (Feb 6, 2004)

It can depend on how it's taught. The teacher can have a huge influence on what you gain from an art. If taught correctly, yes. If not, I woudn't count on it.


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## glad2bhere (Feb 6, 2004)

Dear Chattan: 

"......Can the 35 year old mother of 2 apply what is taught and survive a violent assault? It has the word "combat" placed in front and its focus is completely focused on self-defense. So, is this "art" effective in developing self-defense skills or not?...." 

IMVHO I think the question is not CAN she-- but WILL she. In my teaching experience I continue to see students, even experienced students unable to do what is required of them even to protect themselves from serious harm. Way too much training on going through the motions and not enough time spent on hardening the intent to do whatever is necessary to survive. ICHF has no particular corner on this market one way or another. As was pointed out, it has just about everything to do with the attitude that the teacher imbues in the student. The student actually must be convinced that they are worthy of being protected at all costs and this in itself is a real challenge in todays' world. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Chattan (Feb 8, 2004)

I agree with what has been said but this did not answer my question.  Are the techniques, tactics and strategies valuable and applicable to self-defense?  Self-defense has to be looked at from three points, they are: physical, psychological and emotional.  It is certainly true that a person must have a good teacher and must be willing to use their skills when required.  This all goes back to how the training is performed.  The training must include all three points above and be done against a resisting opponent that simulates a violent encounter.  Any and all techniques taught must be able to be used during the stress of a violent encounter.

So, back to my original question.  Are the techniques, tactics, strategies and training provided by "Combat Hapkido" effective and functional.  Now the response was focused on not only can they make it work but will they.  Again, does Combat Hapkido prepare one to defend themselves so when faced with a violent encounter the person is able to use their training and survive?


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## glad2bhere (Feb 8, 2004)

"......So, back to my original question. Are the techniques, tactics, strategies and training provided by "Combat Hapkido" effective and functional. Now the response was focused on not only can they make it work but will they. Again, does Combat Hapkido prepare one to defend themselves so when faced with a violent encounter the person is able to use their training and survive?...." 

No. And neither does any other system taught in any other country at any other time or any other place.  I can completely disable an individual of any size under any circumstances simply by thrusting a finger into his eye and bursting his eyeball. The question is, will I? Will I accept permanently blinding another human being in defense of myself? Please don't preach about what will be done under duress. The fact is that none of us know WHAT we will do under duress. How many men and women have been raped and of those people how many would do permanent damage to their attackers in protection of themselves. 
A person will kick and punch, scratch and bite but how many will permanently disable another human being. This a choice that one faces and I can tell you that just about everyone I know is not up to taking responsibility for this sort of action regardless of their training or art. 

Lets take the question one step farther. WOULD you want to be able to do such things to another human being? It is possible to develop this kind of ethos. A trained assassin can take a life very matter-of-factly, and some of the most repugnant torturers in history were highly educated individuals.  The fact is that despite all the fancy talk about "deadly hands" and such, the typical person simply wants to posture in such a way as to convince himself that he can take care of himself when he needs to. Its an illusion that people who exploit portions of various Oriental cultures use to make a dollar. My suggestion, for what its worth, is if you are THAT concerned about surviving in an urban environment you start carrying a gun in your belt and a razor in your shoe and hunker down in your home after the sun goes down. 
FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## markulous (Feb 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Chattan _
> *So, back to my original question.  Are the techniques, tactics, strategies and training provided by "Combat Hapkido" effective and functional.  Now the response was focused on not only can they make it work but will they.  Again, does Combat Hapkido prepare one to defend themselves so when faced with a violent encounter the person is able to use their training and survive? *



Yes and No.  It obviously depends on the individual.  I take what is good out of an art, that works for me.  Combat Hapkido is a great combination of locks and traps, mixed with strikes.  It's a very useful tool that is evolved.  But to me, if you limit yourself to one "style" it doesn't prepare you enough to defend yourself.


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## Chattan (Feb 8, 2004)

Markulous-Thank you for answering my question with maturity.


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## Disco (Feb 14, 2004)

Chattan, I would suggest getting a copy of the March Black Belt Mag. Pellegrini has a 4 page spread detailing 3 techniques. Give us your opinion of what you see. 

Respectfully
Mike Dunn


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## Disco (Feb 16, 2004)

It's been a couple of days, would anyone else care to offer a critique?


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## shadow warrior (Feb 16, 2004)

I too have seen a few of Grandmaster Myung's 2nd and 3rd dans when I visited him a couple of times. Once in the late 80's and once in the late 90's.

They exhibited some high level kicking and twisting skill although their freefighting was not 'dynamic'. One thing was evident on my second visit, GM P did NOT learn his kicking at Master Myung's. (GM P still snap kicks in his Tae Kwon Do mechanics).  

GM Pellegrini is NOT Hapkido in the lineage sense. Some of the techniques are similar but there is no technique integration in a foundation sense. It seems as a Kwan which is somewhat removed from circle, flow, harmony. He even went outside his own skill sets to include, cane and MMA style grappling among other aspects.

A close examination of the techniques depicted in the BB article reveal some fundemental flaws. For example in frame three page 91 GMP FAILS to maintain "sticky hands" and releases the opponent's right hand before grabbing it again..without even covering his own thumb for support..WHITE BELT MISTAKE!! There are MORE!!

If there were no market for "junk" there would be much less of it!!


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## Hollywood1340 (Feb 16, 2004)

shadow warrior said:
			
		

> I too have seen a few of Grandmaster Myung's 2nd and 3rd dans when I visited him a couple of times. Once in the late 80's and once in the late 90's.
> 
> They exhibited some high level kicking and twisting skill although their freefighting was not 'dynamic'. One thing was evident on my second visit, GM P did NOT learn his kicking at Master Myung's. (GM P still snap kicks in his Tae Kwon Do mechanics).
> 
> ...



Myself a Combat Hapkidoian aside, I've always found post like this interesting. Take TKD fighting. I've talked to people who will tell you until their blue in the face that it can't work but it does. Look at any of the other forums, EPAK, BJJ, or Escrima. Varying points of opinion will never match up, and in the end it's important for those of that view point to stick to it. Because we are all right. And all wrong.  :asian:


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## glad2bhere (Feb 17, 2004)

Dear C. Crews: 
Just a quick comment on your post, and I will start off by saying that I agree with your sentiments. What I would like to do is point out something that just happened between your post and that of Mike. 

As so often with strings like this it is possible to be critical of the person OR HOW he does something, OR WHY he does something. I don't know that we are well-served being critical of Pelligrini in and of himself. For my part I don't go along with what he does, but thats my personal choice. Where I think we miss the boat in discussions like this is in not taking the lead that someone (in this case Mike) gives by opening the door to actually discuss the HOW-s and WHY-s of a particular persons' approach. Now, I will say that there are dangers here. I was once very critical of Ji Han Jaes' teaching methods and voiced my criticism on another Net. Took quite a beating from that one!!   However, if it is possible to put loyalties to one side and just examine the biomechnics of what is done independent of who is doing it, there is the promise of a very informative string here. Now, I would need a bit more info from Mike about the technique and what was done, as compared with how he would execute the technique, and this can get a bit laborious, if not tedious. All the same, I think the promise is there. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Hollywood1340 (Feb 17, 2004)

LOL, my name is James Maxwell. C. Crews is our local EPAK teacher. He told me that once so I added it to my sig...methinks I need to fix that. I've never belived CHKD to be an as is system. For me it gives me a basis of motion and idea and a conceptual vehicle to get the job done. This is in part due to the way I was taught the system, a good teacher can not be overstated. I can't comment on the techs, as I don't have them in front of me. But on the first question, does it work? As I and others have said earlier, yes, if taught correctly and if trained right. That is the same for any art, stystem or style. 
Now on to this thread and to the post I have replied to earlier. Let me preface by saying I only wish to understand and discuss. I like to think I have an open mind. 



> GM Pellegrini is NOT Hapkido in the lineage sense. Some of the techniques are similar but there is no technique integration in a foundation sense. It seems as a Kwan which is somewhat removed from circle, flow, harmony. He even went outside his own skill sets to include, cane and MMA style grappling among other aspects.



So has every other martial art. In "our" opinion, this is a good thing. It has given us more tools to use outside of the traditional HKD path. If you look at our system, and it's use and reason for exsitence it makes sense. We've never claimed to be anything that we aren't. (Save mabye for the HKD thing, but I'll leave that up to others. Like the Choi/Takada thing) GM.P had a great interview in the April 1994 issue of TKDT that deals with the issue of our creation.



> A close examination of the techniques depicted in the BB article reveal some fundemental flaws. For example in frame three page 91 GMP FAILS to maintain "sticky hands" and releases the opponent's right hand before grabbing it again..without even covering his own thumb for support..WHITE BELT MISTAKE!! There are MORE!!



Sir, my issue is not on the "fault" of my system. More on how you state it. I see no qualification of said statment. No "In my opinion" or "The way I was taught" or "Because". In my time here on MT, I've discovered a few things. One of them is the need to yell online speaks badly on the person yelling. Your comment is very interesting and I would like to know more. The point of failing to remain in contact is one of the things I have noticed as well. I've never liked letting go to maintain control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't IMO. Would you explain further how it works and why you do it? I'm intreguied.

This disscussion has been wonderful. The discussion and trading of ideas is what this board is all about. Thank you again


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## shadow warrior (Feb 17, 2004)

When people create images which are in the public domain, these photos should be examined for truth.

Hapkido techniques should display manefestations of essential precepts..circle, flow, harmony and evident in its most effective practitioners..weight transfer.

Borrowing techniques from others has been going on for many generations. Now however, the MMA bandwagon has rolled through and trys to claim an integration of techniques into various (NHB) systems.

If GMP had called his style Combat Arts, or Integrated Self Defence then he would not have rattled so many Hapkido people's cages as much.

By removing many of the more difficult aspects of Hapkido, such as hard breakfall, dynamic throwing and jumping kicks..he has tried to cash in on the name Hapkido without delivering most of the fitness, risk management during training, personal growth realizations, body control, as well as any of the  freefighting skills which can be found within serious Hapkido training.

What the Combat Hapkido system 'appears' to be is a collection of various techniques with no consistent principles 'borrowed' from more or less Korean Hapkido.

BB Page 91 1- 6 images.
Releasing an opponents hand while attempting a wrist throw or lock will in most Hapkido Instructor's opinion result in a dramatically reduced effectiveness..or complete failure of the attempt. "Sticky hands" are one of the key elements of effective Hapkido twisting. (This is a critical concept which white belts must understand to become yellow belts). It is also apparent that GMP's feet do not move during the take down phase to create 'weight transfer' which dramatically adds to the power of the technique. This is not a technique from Hapkido as taught to me.

The kicking he displays is Tae Kwon Do kicking. Nothing in common with a  more traditional Hapkido approach.

I'm sure GMP is doing VERY WELL thank you very much..through using the name Hapkido AND putting together skill sets which are within the reach of virtually every human who tries..

The only real question becomes has he vetted these techniques through trial and error himself?? Against hostile non co-operative opponents? Not just his students. I can't find any indication that he has any direct personal experience in these matters.


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## greendragon (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm taking the high road here and just let me say that my Hapkido training goes for quite a few years,,, what Pelligrini lost by leapfrogging his way to the ICHF mountain is that he did not spend enough time on the mat in a "learning" phase so he does not have the adequate stepping and basics that "actually" make Hapkido work against an "unwilling" opponent.. in seminars his stuff will work against his guys but without being disrespectful to anyone on here,, you can't learn and understand the stepping and body positioning by hangin out with Hapkido people, you have to become one,, and that can only be done by sweat, pain, and proper teaching from a Hapkido player that isn't a tkd/kempo/jujitsu/samurai/ etc... just get on the mat and learn from qualified people, if you think you can learn Hapkido in a weekend or from a video then I feel sorry for you... 
                                                 Michael Tomlinson


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## Disco (Feb 24, 2004)

Whatever else can/should be said about Mr. Pellegrini and his system, one has to admitt that he is a Master at marketing. I have heard the stories on how he got his rank and such. Personally, I don't care. What I do care about is if, repeat "IF" the techniques he teaches are valid for everybody to use. I will use page 90 (BB March) for an example. Frame 1&2) He slips to the outside of an incoming right hand punch and uses his right hand to deflect/grab. OK so far. Frame 3) His roundhouse kick reaches all the way across the attacker's body to the lead leg and is attempting a nerve strike. Frame 4) His left hand is getting ready to do something (opened and coming down?) with his focus on the elbow, but in Frame 5 he has made a transition - now in front of the attacker and the left hand that was open in Frame 4, has now switched places with the right hand and his right hand is now on the attacker's shoulder. A note here; the attacker's punching arm has not changed position since the transition, which tells me that the wrist lock that's seen in Frame 6, which has taken the attacker to the floor, was done with the weak hand from an ??? position. In Frame 6) we see that again he has switched hands and now the right hand has the wrist lock and the left is up on the forearm. In Frame 7) now the left hand joins the right in the wrist lock.  

I will use Mr. P's words here from the article, describing what he is doing.
"As he closes the gap and initiates the right-hand strike, step forward and to the outside with your left leg. Simultaneously use your right hand to parry his punch, then grab his wrist. The path is now open to disable him with a roundhouse kick to his right leg. Next, use your left hand to seize the elbow of the arm you just grabbed. Lift the limb, then circle it downward while you pivot counter-clockwise. That will cause him to fall on his left side." 

Now either this was written wrong or I'm a total moron or the laws of Physics have been altered. What is seen and what is said don't compute. One would have to view the article/pictures to evaluate for themselves. Even with giving the bennefit of the doubt that the technique in question is plausable, there are still elements of the technique that beg, in my opinion, for change. Case in point: Why roundhouse to a front nerve in the leading leg? Instead, roundhouse to the groin or stomach. Even better, a sidekick to the nearest leg, in this case the attacker's right leg, which would force the attacker's body to go into the direction that Mr. P wants him to go anyway. This way the attacker is falling and you don't have to stand in front of him during the transition phase, which if the kick was not successful in it's intent, your giving your back to your attacker while he is still a threat. It just looks like this technique is being forced, there dosen't seem to be a natural flow.

I'm always open for learning something new, so if I am missing something here, please feel free to assist in my education.


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## shadow warrior (Feb 24, 2004)

Disco..

IMO the funniest thing about page 90 frames 3,4,5 is the fact that the 'attacker' is still standing after taking the "nerve" kick to the knee area. Any good Hapkido kicker would cause severe damage to the knee and leg with a properly executed kick similar to that! Yet he remains standing to have GMP execute an elbow attack (why not just break it in frame 4?), spin position change AND a wrist lock ending in a ground control pin. I also wonder why the 'attacker' doesn't just punch GMP left kidney into dialysis from his position (frame 5)..there appears to be no pain compliance technique in play here during transition. This sequence seems to be TOTALLY reliant on the "compliance" of the attacker who behaves in a rote, very co-operative manor. Either the attacker falls down or he is still capable of punching!

GMP (among countless others in BB) looking at the camera instead of the opponent is always a hoot!

Simpler version.. deflect the incoming punch down and away (use open right hand) and release round kick the 'attackers' left knee out (use left leg)..job complete! You could get bonus points for tying him up with his own belt before he wakes up..after you punch his lights out on his way down (use both hands).

This sequence uses many Hapkido principles including hip rotation, weight transfer as derived from circle, flow and harmony. Many nasty stand up joint locks combined with striking can be applied against unco-operative attackers (punchers) from the picture in frame two that do not require six or seven stages..far too long in actual situations. 

I personally would never try ANY of the techniques the way they were depicted in BB. These are examples of acedemic applications evidently not generally tested against skilled non compliant opponents! To defuse some critics..IMO..

Clever marketing rules!! You can't argue with a well thought out plan and the good bank balance!


Just a Hapkido student with some experience.


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## fawkesburning (Feb 27, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> How was it self promotional??  If that was the case, then everybody that has a write up in a magazine could be guilty of the same thing right?
> 
> Mike



Its self promotion in that Black Belt and other martial arts magazines sell space - ie pay your money - get your article published. You can even buy the cover. Pell might have gotten a freebee because he does so much advertising with them. Ever notice how many ads there are from people that are "featured" there?

Here's my impressions (caveat - in general it's hard to tell from any picture how a something  is truly executed -  these might work like a charm ):

BUT......here's my impressions 

1. The parry/grab just looks like a grab, the kick is unnecessary and breaks the fluidity of the motion. It appears that he's bending forward to take him down instead of using his whole body motion. The lock - He has the guys elbow in relatively correct position then it shift upwards, should be in the relatively same alignment. looks like he's taking one in the balls.

2. The release doesn't use body motion to free the hand. Reaching too far with the elbow needs to move his body closer, bad grip on the attackers hand, not really sure how he's locking the arm, he's above the guys elbow! he could move his knees in and use hips and back leg to put pressure on the elbow or turn the guys thumb up and lock against his front leg shin.

3.The guys arm is already extended so if you are going to use that lock (not my first choice) why kick him away if you trying to move in. he has to switch knees after the take down to kneel on his head, fighting against himself to keep the eagle claw.

4. Not real sure how he's getting the leverage to twist the guys arm, in that position much easier to get locked than control someone. Its an attempt at escrima without the stick for leverage. 

white/yellow belt - barely passes

Jon

 %-}


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## glad2bhere (Feb 27, 2004)

Dear Jon: 

Good call on the technical analysis. I would only add (underscore) that there are some aspects that are difficult to ascertain or assess from a picture. For myself I am looking for the initial balance-taking that makes the attacker vulnerable to whatever technique follows. Though things like the loading on one leg vs the other are hard to discern, I would think that people examining these pictures should be able to note a significant displacement of the hips relative to the shoulders or perhaps a significant torquing of the spine. This misalignment of the spine not only impacts the attackers ability to assault his victim, but also impedes his ability to resist the execution of the technique. Simply put: no balance = no foundation from which to act. From this point of view, the best that I could say about the technique is that its the stuff of which the average "self-defense class" is made. Nothing particularly impressive and only a dim shadow of what actual Hapkido is about. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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