# Advantages of Kenpo.......



## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

Much discussion on possibly some lesser traveled areas of Kenpo has consumed several megabytes of forum space... but lets discuss some of the  "Advantages" or "Attraction Factors" of our Art.

I mean with so many of us out there, and with many of us 'well aware' of "other" systems or methods to choose from... there must be something that brought, brings, or keeps us where we are... and that is here in Kenpo.

I for one, love the logic, pragmatic, and realistic approach to much of our material (that is not to say that other systems are not useful or have benefits) as well as the incredible research, organization, and Kenpo Tools we have to work with  (such as the web of knowledge, outline of principles, zones, training drills, terminology etc. etc.) that others simply don't seem to have put as much attention to.

What are your thoughts or experiences ......

:asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Oct 30, 2003)

Here are some of the things I like in Kenpo -- believe it or not, I do like Kenpo.

1)  Principles and concepts teach people why things work.
2)  Self-defense techniques executed on a partner are a tremenndous innovation over traditional Karate and Kung Fu training methods
3)  The organization of the material helps students correlate concepts to techniques and work on developing belt-appropriate skills and knowledge
4)  The flexibility of the system is tremendous.  Kenpo can be tailored to fit different body types, avoid physical limitations and cultivate individual strenghts
5)  Continuous flow and correlation of movement gives Kenpoists incredibly fast and deceptive hand combinations which are not equalled by many other systems.  It can almost make old fat guys like me look fast.

and...

6)  Patches!  More patches than most of us have been able to iron on since we graduated Cub Scouts or Brownies.


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## Shodan (Oct 30, 2003)

:rofl: Ha ha!!  Patches!!  Yes!!  I just finished sewing my crest patch back on and now my finger is sore!!

  I agree though- I love the techniques........which I have not found in any other styles I have tried.  I also enjoy the katas and the incorporation of the techniques in the katas.  The way that each angle is used, the tons and tons of combinations and tech. linking that can be found and finally, as Kenpoka said, the way that anyone can be shown how to make it work for them.  

  :asian:  :karate:


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Orig posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _*
> Here are some of the things I like in Kenpo --
> Resons 1) - 6) [look above for the list]
> *



:rofl: OFK....... I totally Agree on all accounts 

Now the kicker..... if the "TRAINING METHODS" would match the "Knowledge Data Bank" we'd all be a hell of a lot better!

:rofl: 

:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 30, 2003)

I believe kenpo's advantages are also its disadvantages. Sort of a ying and yang thing.:asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Oct 30, 2003)

Dennis:  BINGO!  

Most people here think I am a BJJ fanatic because of the ground-fighting techniques.  That's not the quite the truth.  I think the biggest advantage that BJJ has is the training method!  

Kenpo technique training with contact against a partner is a huge improvement over traditional Karate training methods.  Judo/BJJ Randori and sparring against fully resisting partners is as much an improvement over Kenpo technique training as Kenpo technique training is over traditional Karate practice.  BJJ's Randori allows almost all techniques to be applied at full power against a resisting partner.  If only there was a way to do that in Kenpo without killing each other!


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Orig. posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _*
> Most people here think I am a BJJ fanatic because of the ground-fighting techniques.  That's not the quite the truth.  I think the biggest advantage that BJJ has is the training method!
> *



Well, Mr. Parker had a saying..... "Condition and Guts, take over where knowledge and skill end".

The problem that arose from the many that I have discussed this with was their definition of "conditioning", while it does mean on one hand "exercise shape", Mr. Parker also meant for it to be viewed as "realistic live preparation" of the skills needed.  

Along this line was another of his sayings... "To Desire something does not mean to accomplish it. To Perspire for it makes accomplishment a reality".  "You need to DO to FEEL" it won't come any other way.  So I agree with you if you want those skills and conditioning to groundwork, you must drill groundwork.



> _Orig. posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _*
> BJJ's Randori allows almost all techniques to be applied at full power against a resisting partner.
> If only there was a way to do that in Kenpo without killing each other! *



There is a way..... but it takes control.  You can throw your technique hard .... But you focus short of killing your partner......LOL.  This takes additional skill to focus and control yet throw with conviction and commitment.  (difficult I realize but what the hell, what have you got to do the rest of your life anyways.....LOL):rofl: 

:asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Oct 30, 2003)

> There is a way..... but it takes control. You can throw your technique hard .... But you focus short of killing your partner......LOL. This takes additional skill to focus and control yet throw with conviction and commitment. (difficult I realize but what the hell, what have you got to do the rest of your life anyways.....LOL)



Yes...but...the challenge in applying Randori with Kenpo techniques is that the strikes must be pulled so you never know if you've really delivered full power and your opponent never truly reacts as they would as if you've hit them.  We try and approximate Randori conditions via free-sparring with pads and limited techniques and by practicing Kenpo techniques with some control on non-resisting partners.  But the very nature of Kenpo prohibits us from applying our techniques full-power on-target in a full repertoire randori environment.


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Orig. posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _*
> Applying Randori with Kenpo techniques is that the strikes must be pulled so you never know if you've really delivered full power and your opponent never truly reacts as they would as if you've hit them.  The very nature of Kenpo prohibits us from applying our techniques full-power on-target in a full repertoire randori environment.
> *



I got close tho......:rofl:

 :asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Oct 30, 2003)

Kenpo does have one of the richest technique repertoire's in existence and definitely has the most organized method for teaching them.


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## RCastillo (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Much discussion on possibly some lesser traveled areas of Kenpo has consumed several megabytes of forum space... but lets discuss some of the  "Advantages" or "Attraction Factors" of our Art.
> 
> I mean with so many of us out there, and with many of us 'well aware' of "other" systems or methods to choose from... there must be something that brought, brings, or keeps us where we are... and that is here in Kenpo.
> ...



I wish you'd quit stealing my lines.....................


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## satans.barber (Oct 30, 2003)

Being of American Origin (well...) there's no Japanese names to learn! That's one of the things I like about it.

If I wanted to learn a foreign language I'd go to night school, I like being able to concentrate on training and not have to worry about it 

Ian-san.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *Being of American Origin (well...) there's no Japanese names to learn! That's one of the things I like about it.
> 
> If I wanted to learn a foreign language I'd go to night school, I like being able to concentrate on training and not have to worry about it
> ...


Here here.


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## Klondike93 (Oct 30, 2003)

> I come to you with only my keyboard -- my empty head. I have nothing important to say, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor, should it be a matter of ego or pride, sense or nonsense, then here are my weapons, my keyboard -- my empty head.



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lool:



On to the serious part now:



> Being of American Origin (well...) there's no Japanese names to learn! That's one of the things I like about it.



Couldn't agree more on this. I have a friend that's taking Ninpo and has to learn all the Japanese names that go with it. The only problem with it is when you ask him what new things he's learned, you hear about it in Japanese


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> *:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lool:
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, its actualy more of a cultural programming than self defense training. Thats cool if you know that getting into and are intrigued by the new culture. If you are in it strictly for the fighting aspects I would opt for a less traditional style.
Sean


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## Michael Billings (Oct 30, 2003)

Watching a true, high ranking kenpoist rip like Mr. Parker - I can see where I want to be.

-Michael


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## Seig (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *Yes...but...the challenge in applying Randori with Kenpo techniques is that the strikes must be pulled so you never know if you've really delivered full power and your opponent never truly reacts as they would as if you've hit them.  We try and approximate Randori conditions via free-sparring with pads and limited techniques and by practicing Kenpo techniques with some control on non-resisting partners.  But the very nature of Kenpo prohibits us from applying our techniques full-power on-target in a full repertoire randori environment. *


 I partially agree with you.  I cannot for the obvious reasons, hit my students with full power.  After they have been with me a while, I learn their individual tolerances and I can in fact hit him them a.) harder than they believed they could handle b.) hard enough to make them respond properly.  This gives me a very good barometer on how a full power strike will effect someone.  
    As for what keeps my passion for Kenpo alive.....When I first started to break from my old instructor, a Tracy stylist, and go into Kenpo deeper on my own, I discovered Infinite Insights.  As I read this tome, I was both elated and highly pissed.  I was elated to see someone that thought and felt as I myself do.  I was pissed to find that I had spent years reinventing the wheel.  So as my studies progress and I gain a greater understanding of the art, my love for it only deepens.


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## Seig (Oct 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *I wish you'd quit stealing my lines..................... *


Ricardo,
Please stop the one liners in this forum.  Let us here your views from a Tracyist stand point.


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## CoolKempoDude (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *:rofl: OFK....... I totally Agree on all accounts
> 
> Now the kicker..... if the "TRAINING METHODS" would match the "Knowledge Data Bank" we'd all be a hell of a lot better!
> ...



"hole" and "unhole" people united 1 for all


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## Brother John (Nov 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Much discussion on possibly some lesser traveled areas of Kenpo has consumed several megabytes of forum space... but lets discuss some of the  "Advantages" or "Attraction Factors" of our Art.*



Logic
efficiency
effectiveness
power
practical
adaptable
very mentally involved
both cerebral and visceral

and all the great Kenpo friends I've made, 
Even OFK, who Does love Kenpo.

Your Brother
John


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## jeffkyle (Nov 2, 2003)

Combination of circular along with linear motion.  Constantly exploring every possibility of motion humanly possilbe!


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## Kroy (Nov 2, 2003)

What do I love about Kenpo? Well, The fact that I can still perform the techniques when I turn Seventy Years old, thats why. No high flying acrobatic stuff. Just straight to the point self Defence. I'm 37 now and I want to keep traing until I'm an old fart.


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## MisterMike (Nov 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *What do I love about Kenpo? Well, The fact that I can still perform the techniques when I turn Seventy Years old, thats why. No high flying acrobatic stuff. Just straight to the point self Defence. I'm 37 now and I want to keep traing until I'm an old fart. *



What % of the techniques do you think you will be able to perform at 70, and where? In the studio vs. the street.

I find that the techniques are harder on the joints in Kenpo than other arts. Of course there are worse....


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _*
> I find that the techniques are harder on the joints in Kenpo than other arts. Of course there are worse....
> *



Not harder on the joints than any other, less than most Japanese, Okinawan, or Korean Arts.

Yes, try Wu Shu at 70 !!!  :rofl: 

:asian:


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## Kroy (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Yes, try Wu Shu at 70 !!!  :rofl: :asian: *




I'll stick to Kenpo


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## Kroy (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *What % of the techniques do you think you will be able to perform at 70, and where? In the studio vs. the street.
> 
> I find that the techniques are harder on the joints in Kenpo than other arts. Of course there are worse.... *



What other arts have you studied and to what extent?:asian:


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## MisterMike (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *What other arts have you studied and to what extent?:asian: *



Well, my Kenpo smans a mere 10 years which is more than the others but I have studied Shinobi Jutsu, Aikido and Aiki Jujutsu.

I think arts that rely more on power will be less effective for you in your older age.

I also think that the same art practiced/approached differently can be more/less strenuous on your body while training in your younger years, allowing you to practice longer.

I'm sure people who love their style will stick with it as long as they can. I just hate hearing stories about how people had to drop off because their body couldn't take it any more. (Judo)


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *What are your thoughts or experiences ......*



I have a great story for you but it can't be put down in text form. It's definately a phone conversation.   Hopefully soon.:asian:


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## Kroy (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *I also think that the same art practiced/approached differently can be more/less strenuous on your body while training in your younger years, allowing you to practice longer.
> 
> I'm sure people who love their style will stick with it as long as they can. I just hate hearing stories about how people had to drop off because their body couldn't take it any more. (Judo) *




I agree, your style has to change along with you. I just feel that Kenpo opens up more oppotunities for this.
:asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Nov 3, 2003)

I have to say that Kenpo is pretty hard on the knees...but it is easier on all the rest of the joints than Aiki Jujistu (which I trained in under Duke Moore) and Aikido (which I experienced briefly enough to know that it hurts more to practice it than to fight against it in the "street").

One of my favorite things about Kenpo is FAST HANDS !!!


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## Brother John (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *What % of the techniques do you think you will be able to perform at 70, and where? In the studio vs. the street.
> 
> I find that the techniques are harder on the joints in Kenpo than other arts. Of course there are worse.... *



Hey Mike
I find Kenpo MUCH easier on the joints than the GoJu and TKD and Jujutsu that I did before.
But that's my experience...
Your Bro.
John


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## rmcrobertson (Nov 3, 2003)

I agree. I've got incipient arthritis in both knees, specially the left--heredity, and running down hills in Providence, RI--and since kenpo, the aches I used to get in the movies and on long car trips have pretty much evaporated.

And, my stretch has considerably imporved...

From what I've seen, kenpo has got to be easier on the body than TKD. Not to meantion the head...


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## MisterMike (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Brother John _
> *Hey Mike
> I find Kenpo MUCH easier on the joints than the GoJu and TKD and Jujutsu that I did before.
> But that's my experience...
> ...



Yes, I'd say the traditional hard styles are worse on the body, but arts like Aikido and Tai Chi are softer.

Again, I think it depends on the school. I would have thought the stretching in a TKD school would be beneficial. I have a friend who takes TKD and from what I've seen there was little contact unless sparring.

I found that Kenpo was more strenuous on the knees and hips. Probably not as bad as those low Goju stances tho  

I'm a happy Aiki practitioner now. The wrists take most of the twisting and once you have your breakfalls down the throws aren't as bad as they look. I was initally worried that the hips would take a beating but so far so good...

:asian:


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## Brother John (Nov 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Yes, I'd say the traditional hard styles are worse on the body, but arts like Aikido and Tai Chi are softer.
> 
> Again, I think it depends on the school. I would have thought the stretching in a TKD school would be beneficial. I have a friend who takes TKD and from what I've seen there was little contact unless sparring.
> ...


Sounds great. I'm glad you are enjoying your art, I think it's a very interesting system!
Your Brother
John


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