# Philip Chenique of Atemi Ryu Jujitsu



## Mr. President (Oct 31, 2014)

Does anyone know who that is? Heard of him? Studied with him? Know if he's legit? Does anyone know the school? He apparently teaches FMA as well.

He's the head instructor of Atemi Ryu Jujitsu and this is the page: http://www.atemi-ryu.com/instructors


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 31, 2014)

Never heard of him or his system before.
Looked at the web page you listed above and must admit there are a lot of awards and organizational tributes associated with his name BUT many of them actually have little meaning or can be bought ( hall of fame)
Now having said this I am NOT saying this man is not legit or that he dose not know his stuff.  I guess one would need to study with him to know.  He did study for however long (not stated) with a few names I am familiar with


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 31, 2014)

Yeah, most of the stuff in his bio is pretty meaningless - Sokeship Councils  :rofl: and the like. It looks like the meat of his actual training and qualifications came from Moses Powell and Florendo Vistacion. I'm familiar with both names but not enough to have a strong opinion on either.

There are a fair number of videos on YouTube of Mr. Chenique demonstrating his technique, so you can watch and form your own opinion. Not really my cup of tea, but some folks might like it.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 31, 2014)

BTW - I'm _*really *_not a fan of using "doctorate" as a martial arts rank and using "doctor" as a title when you hold neither an M.D. nor a Ph.D..


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## Chris Parker (Nov 1, 2014)

Heard of him? Yes. Heard of "Atemi Ryu"? Yep. Know anything about either him, or the system? Oh, yeah. Know anything positive? Uh&#8230; no.

While we don't fraud bust here (and this is not an easy one to avoid), Chenique's history is largely modern, Western created systems, questionable "ken-jitsu" methods (undefined) from a completely unknown person (who happens to have the same name as a noted Aikido instructor&#8230; but isn't who Chenique claims taught him Aikido&#8230, and blatantly made-up (fraudulent) rankings in credible arts. The "art" he created is a fairly sub-standard mish-mash of some Aikido-like kansetsu waza, a bit of basic striking and kicking, weaponry methods that belie a complete lack of education and grounding in the basics of said weapons, and such a huge amount of fantasy that it's rather sad, with the only bright point being that no-one has been seriously injured or killed by anything there yet. The name itself is a huge giveaway as to the lack of anything of legitimate grounding, as it simply doesn't make sense, and is just Chenique putting together what he thinks a Japanese art name should be like. To break it down, the term "atemi" refers to striking, and literally means "to strike/percuss (ate - &#24403 to the body (mi - &#36523", and "ryu" (&#27969 refers to a "style", but more literally means a "flow, stream"&#8230; so this is meant to be "the style of striking"&#8230; except it doesn't work like that. It actually reads more like "Striking Style/System", except more awkward&#8230; the use of "ryu" denotes a specific name, rather than just meaning a type of method or approach. It'd be like naming a specific system of karate "Punching Style"&#8230; it just doesn't make much sense.

So here we have someone with questionable background, highly questionable associations, no knowledge of the language of the arts he's claiming to teach, or of any of the aspects of the art at all. 

Not a recommendation.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 1, 2014)

I had never heard of him or his art until I read this post. So I popped on over to the site.

He claims a 10th Dan with no less than *ELEVEN* different groups, as well as 2 6th Dans, 2 5th Dans and a single 1st Dan. He's also affiliated with some notoriously poor groups (the soke council, for example). The only thing he's missing is an endorsement from Ashida Kim.

Now, he may well be the best martial artist since Chuck Norris, but the above certainly raises more than a few red flags.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 1, 2014)

Chris Parker said:


> The name itself is a huge giveaway as to the lack of anything of legitimate grounding, as it simply doesn't make sense, and is just Chenique putting together what he thinks a Japanese art name should be like. To break it down, the term "atemi" refers to striking, and literally means "to strike/percuss (ate - &#24403 to the body (mi - &#36523", and "ryu" (&#27969 refers to a "style", but more literally means a "flow, stream"&#8230; so this is meant to be "the style of striking"&#8230; except it doesn't work like that. It actually reads more like "Striking Style/System", except more awkward&#8230; the use of "ryu" denotes a specific name, rather than just meaning a type of method or approach. It'd be like naming a specific system of karate "Punching Style"&#8230; it just doesn't make much sense. ...



In fairness, knowledge of history and language is not a prerequisite for being a skilled martial artist. As long as he's not claiming to teach an authentic historical  style, I wouldn't hold any of that against him. Given that both of the individuals he seems to claim as his main instructors(Powell and Vistacion) were teaching modern eclectic arts, I wouldn't expect him to necessarily have a strong handle on Japanese history and language.

That said, his list of silly titles and the YouTube clips I've seen are not personally inspiring me to seek him out. YMMV.


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## elder999 (Nov 1, 2014)

Mr. President said:


> Does anyone know who that is? Heard of him? Studied with him? Know if he's legit? Does anyone know the school? He apparently teaches FMA as well.
> 
> He's the head instructor of Atemi Ryu Jujitsu and this is the page: http://www.atemi-ryu.com/instructors



One shouldn't say anything, if one has nothing good to say. Thereby, in saying one has naught to say, say all.....:lfao:


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## Chris Parker (Nov 2, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> In fairness, knowledge of history and language is not a prerequisite for being a skilled martial artist. As long as he's not claiming to teach an authentic historical  style, I wouldn't hold any of that against him. Given that both of the individuals he seems to claim as his main instructors(Powell and Vistacion) were teaching modern eclectic arts, I wouldn't expect him to necessarily have a strong handle on Japanese history and language.
> 
> That said, his list of silly titles and the YouTube clips I've seen are not personally inspiring me to seek him out. YMMV.



It's kind of a yes/no thing there&#8230; when you have someone who is claiming to teach a specific form of art (jujutsu), whose own description emphasises it being a Japanese art, with origins with the samurai, despite the entire foundational systems having pretty much nothing at all to do with any of the old Japanese arts (he even goes so far as to mis-spell Tomiki Aikido, the closest to anything related in the lists of his instructors educations), talking about it being "true to the traditions", and so on, it becomes a huge red flag as it indicates a huge gap in understanding, knowledge, and grounding in what they are putting themselves forward as an authority on. Couple that with the other myriad issues, and it all just gives an image that is far from positive.

Of course, if everything else was fine, then it could be overlooked to a degree&#8230; but would still indicate a lack of real knowledge of understanding.


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## Tony Dismukes (Nov 2, 2014)

Chris Parker said:


> It's kind of a yes/no thing there&#8230; when you have someone who is claiming to teach a specific form of art (jujutsu), whose own description emphasises it being a Japanese art, with origins with the samurai, despite the entire foundational systems having pretty much nothing at all to do with any of the old Japanese arts (he even goes so far as to mis-spell Tomiki Aikido, the closest to anything related in the lists of his instructors educations), talking about it being "true to the traditions", and so on, it becomes a huge red flag as it *indicates a huge gap in understanding, knowledge, and grounding in what they are putting themselves forward as an authority on*. Couple that with the other myriad issues, and it all just gives an image that is far from positive.
> 
> Of course, if everything else was fine, then it could be overlooked to a degree&#8230; but would still indicate a lack of real knowledge of understanding.



Yeah, but as I mentioned, someone can have huge gaps in their understanding and knowledge of the _history _of an art while still being proficient in its _practice_.

You've put a lot of time into understanding the history and tradition of a number of martial arts. For most people, "traditional" is whatever their first teacher told them was traditional and the "history" of their art is some mishmash of what their teacher told them, what they read in a book once, and what they made up in their own head to explain where a technique came from. I'm sure there are plenty of skilled TKD practitioners who believe the "1000 year old indigenous Korean art" myth that their teacher sold them.  (Back in college I had a 3rd degree TKD black belt inform me that Karate was "bastardized, Americanized Tae Kwon Do." Total nonsense, of course, but it didn't make him any less proficient at his art. ) By the same token, there are plenty of skilled practitioners of modern Western jujutsu systems who believe that their systems are directly derived from ancient Samurai battlefield arts rather than being the more distant relations that they are.  I don't hold it against them.


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## frank raud (Nov 2, 2014)

So, if everything is pretty sketchy about his main art(and the 10 other arts he has 10th dan rankings in), his FMA must be explemplary, no?


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## Chris Parker (Nov 2, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, but as I mentioned, someone can have huge gaps in their understanding and knowledge of the _history _of an art while still being proficient in its _practice_.
> 
> You've put a lot of time into understanding the history and tradition of a number of martial arts. For most people, "traditional" is whatever their first teacher told them was traditional and the "history" of their art is some mishmash of what their teacher told them, what they read in a book once, and what they made up in their own head to explain where a technique came from. I'm sure there are plenty of skilled TKD practitioners who believe the "1000 year old indigenous Korean art" myth that their teacher sold them.  (Back in college I had a 3rd degree TKD black belt inform me that Karate was "bastardized, Americanized Tae Kwon Do." Total nonsense, of course, but it didn't make him any less proficient at his art. ) By the same token, there are plenty of skilled practitioners of modern Western jujutsu systems who believe that their systems are directly derived from ancient Samurai battlefield arts rather than being the more distant relations that they are.  I don't hold it against them.



We're actually both saying the same thing, of course, Tony&#8230; the words before the section you bolded was that, if there were a large range of issues, as described, then the naming would become a huge red flag&#8230; I never said that it, in isolation, was definitively indicative of anything itself&#8230; 

Of course, when it comes to the modern Western "jujitsu" guys who believe that what they do is really related to, or derived from the samurai methodologies, it again is a big red flag as to the legitimacy of that claim&#8230; not to the quality of the art, but to the legitimacy of it's claims. Which is, as I'm sure you'll agree, different.


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## Hanzou (Nov 4, 2014)

Avoid Atemi-Ryu Jujitsu like the plague.:lol:


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## jks9199 (Nov 4, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> Avoid Atemi-Ryu Jujitsu like the plague.:lol:



Why?  Can you add to the discussion with the reasons behind your opinion?


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## Hanzou (Nov 4, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> Why?  Can you add to the discussion with the reasons behind your opinion?



I had a very negative experience with this group a few years ago. Let's just leave it at that.

My only message to the OP would be not to waste his time and money with these folks. Find a better JJ school/organization, or just do Judo or Bjj instead.


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## elder999 (Nov 4, 2014)

Hanzou said:


> I had a very negative experience with this group a few years ago. Let's just leave it at that.
> 
> My only message to the OP would be not to waste his time and money with these folks. Find a better JJ school/organization, or just do Judo or Bjj instead.



Or even a real aikido school-they claim to do aikido as well, but it's Chenique's invention........there, now I've gone and said something of substance, dammit! :lfao:


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