# Is Pro Wrestling a real martial arts style?



## Cobra

Many people think that pro wrestling isn't a style since it is fake. But some people think it is real style cause some of the moves are based on martial arts.

There are some good techniques in there like I see the arm bar being used a lot. And if these moves were real, it can do some real damage. But is it a real martial art?


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## Touch Of Death

Cobra said:
			
		

> Many people think that pro wrestling isn't a style since it is fake. But some people think it is real style cause some of the moves are based on martial arts.
> 
> There are some good techniques in there like I see the arm bar being used a lot. And if these moves were real, it can do some real damage. But is it a real martial art?


I say yes. The ability to fall, throw, and be thrown are all usefull MA concepts. Is it coreographed? sure. Is it awesome to behold? absolutley! Is it real? yes and no. Until they use computer animation to use as wrestler substitutes, these atheletes are really flying through the air and really landing. The art that I see is how injury is avoided.
Sean


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## loki09789

As real as Chinese Opera/Wushu/action film martial arts:  based on martial/combat systems but applied for entertainment.


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## pknox

To me, Pro Wrestling can be compared to stage weapons combat, such as swordfighting.  While in both cases the moves have been rehearsed and the outcome has been predetermined, a good deal of knowledge and athletic skill is required to even perform the moves, and a great deal more so to "sell" them effectively.  Also, in both cases, even though the combatants are well trained and well rehearsed, injuries can and do occur, showing the potential lethality inherent in both activities, and by extension, the potential effectiveness.


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## ace

Ask Sakuraba , Shamrock,Frye, Kimo & Severn
All Have Done Both. I Say Yes it is very Much A Martial Art,Based
On a Predetermend Out Come.


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## ShaolinWolf

I say yes, but then no. It's staged, but it is wrestling because they do use all that strength and throws with full strength. I just don't like watching a bunch of men and women in spandex and thongs on steroids screaming at the top of their lungs at each other. It's like a bunch of babies throwing fits. I guess I'm just partial to saying no because of that. I don't think MA should contain those wrong attributes. 


UFC. Yeah, it's not wrestling, but it's entertainment. You don't see them trying to act like they are running for senator and dragging their opponent's name through the mud. Of course they break stuff and bloody each other up once in a while. LOL
Anyway, yeah, sadly Pro Wrestling an MA.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Yes!  Absolutely!

Think about it:  Kata is real martial arts, right?  Wu Shu is real martial arts, right?  Tai Chi is real martial arts, right?  The practice of this is almost always choreographed.  So is Pro Wrestling, but pro-wrestling also has contact!  So yes.  it is real!


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## ShaolinWolf

yes, I agree. I just don't like to admit it. LOL...It's a dang shame to call the NWO, WWF, WCW, and other Staged wrestling shows an MA, but it's true, though I have my own thoughts on the subject. It's basically a play acted out on television, with guys on steroids. So, that's where the no comes in.


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## Touch Of Death

ShaolinWolf said:
			
		

> yes, I agree. I just don't like to admit it. LOL...It's a dang shame to call the NWO, WWF, WCW, and other Staged wrestling shows an MA, but it's true, though I have my own thoughts on the subject. It's basically a play acted out on television, with guys on steroids. So, that's where the no comes in.


With that in mind we can go through and point out the cases where "actual" martial artists are guilty of steroid use, drug use, rape, murder, telemarketing, and Jay walking. If you want to nit pick we can discredit just about anyone from the martial artist ideal. These guys are skilled athelets, and they deserve respect for their skills.
Sean


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## OULobo

ShaolinWolf said:
			
		

> You don't see them trying to act like they are running for senator and dragging their opponent's name through the mud.



Let's not forget that the governor that you are most likely referring to was a warrior before he was an entertainer. He was a navy seal and served Viet Nam before going into the WWF. I don't like a lot of these guys and I have met quite a few, because they are arrogant and sometimes downright nasty, but one thing I'll give them is that they are motivated, atheletic and I wouldn't want to go against them if they were pissed at me.


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## Black Belt Jedi

I consider Pro Wrestling a Martial Art style it is mixed with various grappling systems, brawling techniques and aerial attacks. Pro Wrestling is more of a representation of Martial Arts. The submission holds you see can be applied effectively for real. Most Pro Wrestlers have trained in Greco-Roman wrestling, Judo, Jujutsu, and some of them Karate and other Martial Arts disciplines and blend them into this entertainment art form.


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## Steve

Cobra said:


> Many people think that pro wrestling isn't a style since it is fake. But some people think it is real style cause some of the moves are based on martial arts.
> 
> There are some good techniques in there like I see the arm bar being used a lot. And if these moves were real, it can do some real damage. But is it a real martial art?


Pro wrestling is as real... or not real as Wushu.  Personally, I would consider both to be performance art and not martial art.

In both cases, the performers CAN have practical martial skill, but not necessarily.  Josh Barnett, for example, is among many legit martial artists who earn dough "Wrestling" in Japan.

But Barnett is a catch wrestler who also trains standup.  Sakuraba and others train Judo...  the techniques legit MA'ists learn to perform in Pro Wrestling are OTHER than how to fight.  They learn the coreography and show business involved in the trade.


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## Bill Mattocks

I don't even know what to say.  I am depressed that anyone would think of any form of entertainment as a martial art.  The fact that some professional wrestlers are trained in actual martial arts does not not in any way make professional wrestling a martial art.  It just means that a given wrassler also knows some martial arts.  Yay him.  The fact that today's professional wrestlers are physically fit, flexible, and aerodynamic also means nothing; so are swimmers and swimming isn't a martial art last time I checked.  Yes, I'm sure some of their 'moves' are derived on real martial arts moves.  They are also scripted, done for entertainment, and designed to look much more painful and immobilizing than they are.  Yes, I'm sure many or most pro wrasslers could kick my ***.  So could many professional bocci players; is that a martial art too?

Has logic left the building entirely?  I want someone to explain to me how a fake open-hand slap delivered whilst stomping on the mat to make a loud sound is in any way a martial art.


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## Nomad

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't even know what to say.  I am depressed that anyone would think of any form of entertainment as a martial art.  The fact that some professional wrestlers are trained in actual martial arts does not not in any way make professional wrestling a martial art.  It just means that a given wrassler also knows some martial arts.  Yay him.  The fact that today's professional wrestlers are physically fit, flexible, and aerodynamic also means nothing; so are swimmers and swimming isn't a martial art last time I checked.  Yes, I'm sure some of their 'moves' are derived on real martial arts moves.  They are also scripted, done for entertainment, and designed to look much more painful and immobilizing than they are.  Yes, I'm sure many or most pro wrasslers could kick my ***.  So could many professional bocci players; is that a martial art too?
> 
> Has logic left the building entirely?  I want someone to explain to me how a fake open-hand slap delivered whilst stomping on the mat to make a loud sound is in any way a martial art.



Well, one difference between pro wrestling and swimming is that WWE wrestling is a form of entertainment that _evolved from_ a martial art (unless someone wants to describe how real amateur wrestling isn't a martial art) into it's current form, where contrived storylines and entertainment have pushed out much of the real martial art skills that early pro wrestlers undoubtedly had.   

I strongly suspect that the "real" martial artists who have become pro wrestlers find that they use only a relatively small subset of their martial skills in this venue, and that they have a whole host of other new skills completely unrelated to martial arts to learn in order to become good at what they do.

Personally, I like the comparison to stage combat because I think this fits very well.


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## Bill Mattocks

Nomad said:


> ...and that they have a whole host of other new skills completely unrelated to martial arts to learn in order to become good at what they do.



Right!  And that makes it 'not martial arts'.


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## Langenschwert

The great irony of pro wrestling is that it used to be a very legit martial art. It's origins are in American Catch Wrestling (which was based on Lancashire "Catch as Catch Can" to a large degree), which is great stuff. I had the opportunity to take Les Moore's class at this past WMAW in Racine, probably one of the best classes of the event.

AFAIK, back in the day, you had two types of fights: a "shoot" (real) and a "work" (staged). The trouble with the shoots is that the outcome was unpredictable and fights could be boring. A work could be made exciting and therefore become more popular, and became the default for pro wrestling. The shoot fighters left for Japan, and the rest is history. It's probably the only instance of a Western Martial Art being preserved in Asia.

Best regards,

-Mark


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