# Welcome back, the left



## billc (Aug 4, 2011)

Wow, there are a lot of posts today from people who seem to be on the opposite side of many of the issues from me.  Welcome back, it is nice to see you making comments, misguided as some of them are.  I hope you keep posting.  Let's have at it, shall we?


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## Tez3 (Aug 4, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Wow, there are a lot of posts today from people who seem to be on the opposite side of many of the issues from me. Welcome back, it is nice to see you making comments, misguided as some of them are. I hope you keep posting. Let's have at it, shall we?



Patronise much?


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## billc (Aug 4, 2011)

Actually, I could do more but I am glad to see some of the other posters back in force.  It seemed like some had taken some time off for all that outside stuff like "family" and "life," can you believe that?

I actually do like to see the other points of view here, no patronizing from me.


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## Tez3 (Aug 4, 2011)

You assume though that anyone who doesn't agree with you is 'on the left' rather than a conservative. You and whoever left me a rather nasty neg rep calling me a leftie among other things assume we are on the left. There's no shades in your political views, no room for people of the same political persuasion to disagree. If they disagree with you they are 'lefties' according to you. It doesn't work that way though.


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## granfire (Aug 4, 2011)

ah, but billi is so far over to the right...._everybody _is left of him....TF excluded tho...


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 4, 2011)

Don't look for me to be here much longer.


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## Steve (Aug 4, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Don't look for me to be here much longer.


 what does that mean, bob?


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 4, 2011)

Dude, I'm a conservative and I disagree with you


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## RandomPhantom700 (Aug 4, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Don't look for me to be here much longer.



Wait, what?


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 4, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> what does that mean, bob?


 


RandomPhantom700 said:


> Wait, what?



I haven't decided yet.


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## elder999 (Aug 4, 2011)

Dude, I'm all over the map on the issues, but most of my friends "on the left," including my wife, the Quaker (really!) consider me to be somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun....:lfao:I just think most of your posts suck. Likewise everyone you link to.Coulter and Breitbart give conservatives a bad name....I think your posts do, too.....


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## granfire (Aug 4, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I haven't decided yet.



Indecision may or may not be your problem?


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 4, 2011)

granfire said:


> Indecision may or may not be your problem?



No, not quite.


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## elder999 (Aug 5, 2011)

And it's not just that they suck, bit that the rancor they create might drive away the likes of a Bob, or tez3, or Canuckma, whose posts I value, while yours........?Well. Enough to say that I just threw up my mouth a little....again..


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 5, 2011)

5 days ago, MartialTalk officially turned 10. 
10 years. 10 long years.
10 years of ups and downs.
$50,000 spent on software, hosting, bandwidth, long distance calls, fliers, business cards, tee shirts, pens, and who can remember what else.
(Yes, that is an accurate number).

We were there when Modern Arnis imploded, exploded, and erupted into war.
We were there for a dozen Kenpo feuds, as many TKD feuds, and a few dozen 'founders' of 'ancient' arts.
We've got the digital corpses of a dozen self-proclaimed fraud busters, twice as many 'experts', and 2,000 spammers moldering in our dungeon.
We were here when 9/11 happened, reported on countless wars, invasions, incursions, terrorist attacks, political hatchet jobs, natural disasters.
We've been threatened with lawsuits by convicted pedophiles, self-important blow hards and confused 'ninjas'.
We've been roasted, invaded, and kicked in the teeth by our competition.
We've seen mass exodus's of members over rules issues.
We've had to fire, suspend and ban friends.

Yet we still are.

10 years.

That's a long time.

A lot can change in 10 years. A lot has.

Some days, I wouldn't take all the Spanish Gold in the Caribbean for the site.
Other days, I'd turn the keys over for a good nights sleep and enough money hit zero again.

MartialTalk is supposed to be open to all seekers of knowledge.
It once was.
Lately, the politics have gone so far past reason, I'm hard pressed to see a reason to bother.
When a guy posting stupid pictures is the voice of reason, one is forced to question reason.
Is there a point anymore here?
Bill posts something. Someone else jumps on him. Elder posts a poem. Lather rince repeat.
TF or I post something dealing with terrorists, then he and I go round and round about muslims. Neither budging, just pissing each other off again. lather rince repeat.
I post something about cops. Each time, it follows the same pattern. Arch and I will go back and forth, a few other leos chime in, and I walk away feeling that all I've done is drive a few more leos off the site.
and so it goes on.

MartialTalk was intended to be a martial arts community. Where seekers found teachers, and teachers found seekers. Where people can swap techniques, training tips, seminar notices. Form training groups, and relax.   The feeling you get after the seminar, when everyone is chowing down, sharing a drink, having a laugh.  Relaxed.

A lot of days, it's like that.  Some days, today, it felt like anything but.

Too often for me, lately, it's felt like anything but.   

Maybe it's the weather.  Been hotter n hell in my apartment. 95 some days at 80% humidity isn't good. Takes a lot out of you.  Have a backlog of work as a result, and I don't get paid sitting here arguing. I'm tired, I'm not feeling that great, and, I'm tired.

So, I might not be here arguing in the near future.  I might take a break. I might walk away.  Forum isn't going anywhere. Not anytime soon. Server'll keep running as long as I can keep feeding the mouse running on the wheel.  Mods will keep moderating too, so no one get stupid ideas.  This wouldn't be the first time I walked away...just the first really mentioned time.

But, keep something in mind...it's no fun to argue with like minded people. A real debate requires research, give and take, and concession. Running the other guy off the site, isn't a win. Not for the site.  

Later.


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## Tez3 (Aug 5, 2011)

Perhaps we could all agree on a moratorium on political postings for an agreed length of time for everyone to get their breath back, let the heat die down and get some martial arts discussions going?
I expect it's the same in the States as here that this is the school holiday time? Thats' when kids drive parents mad lol but it's also a time for spending with families etc not time to be spent arguing over politics so how about we don't post on anything political for the weeks the summer lasts (as agreed by everyone as summer here tends just to be a couple of days now and again lol) and we agree *'schools out'*?


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## Jenna (Aug 5, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> 5 days ago, MartialTalk officially turned 10.
> 10 years. 10 long years.
> 10 years of ups and downs.
> $50,000 spent on software, hosting, bandwidth, long distance calls, fliers, business cards, tee shirts, pens, and who can remember what else.
> ...


Bob perhaps I guess this is one of those posts where you will at some point look back and think, man, I was p'd off at that point when now everything is one of those "Spanish Gold" days.  And then there will be days beyond that when you will look at this post and think, man, different faces and but same old chestnut arguments rattling around and around and around, lather, rinse, repeat, if contents get in eyes, wash out with plenty of cold water etc. And I think that is the whole point of this, it is just a mirror of the cyclical swings of everything from the economy to politics, we go at it from one direction then chill for a bit then go at it from the other direction.

You say that MT is supposed to be open to all seekers of knowledge, well never has any knowledge been gained without pushing the boundaries of already existing knowledge, no?  In the case of the forum, it is the duty almost of posters seeking new knowledge to ask with open minds and to test the limits of each other's views and tolerance and but *to do so with a mindset of respect*.  Disrespect requires moderation.  And the best moderation is imo gained by attracting members with a mature, respectful, open-minded attitude to their posting.  And imo, as a site owner, pretty much all you can do is your best to attract respectful members - perhaps incentivise or make more public shows of support (little banners or whatever) for who you as site owner / staff or whatever deem to be your best and most favoured posters, weekly, monthly or overall or whatever.  That way, you project a more immediate public persona for the site for anyone not familiar. Just a thought 

Anyway, regarding your above list of ongoing battles, personally I think some arguments are best not fought at all, though maybe it is a guy thing  I suggest Bob that you go to a different part of the forum as though on holiday. Visit the less trafficked sections and take a vacation there.  It is very quiet and peaceful in the countrified Aikido section where people sit on toadstools and debate semantics with theirselves.  It is well away from the forum tourism of The Study with all its gaudiness, intolerance, its pimps and its dealers.  I wandered there lost the other day and someone robbed me of my beliefs and vandalised my opinion as I was walking it down the street.  Never again  So yes, take a vacation in a nice part of the forum perhaps that is an idea  Jenna


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## Twin Fist (Aug 5, 2011)

plenty of forums with political areas, you could just not allow it here


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## Twin Fist (Aug 5, 2011)

well, we live in turbulent times and tensions are running high, it isnt anything that should upset your day


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## Steve (Aug 5, 2011)

Jenna said:


> It is very quiet and peaceful in the countrified Aikido section where people sit on toadstools and debate semantics with theirselves.  It is well away from the forum tourism of The Study with all its gaudiness, intolerance, its pimps and its dealers.  I wandered there lost the other day and someone robbed me of my beliefs and vandalised my opinion as I was walking it down the street.  Never again  So yes, take a vacation in a nice part of the forum perhaps that is an idea  Jenna


I wandered into the aikido forum and Steven Seagal broke my wrist.  But the worst part is that he made me listen to his country music.  It was...  *shudder* awful.  I will never go into the aikido forum again.  That place is scary!


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## Stealthy (Aug 5, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Perhaps we could all agree on a moratorium on political postings for an agreed length of time for everyone to get their breath back, let the heat die down and get some martial arts discussions going?



Agreed.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 5, 2011)

Take a wonder through and lurk for a while in the JSA section, there&#8217;s only a handful of us there. Problem is we are all seasoned veterans who tend to agree with each other and who trip over each other trying to help the odd newbie who stumbles across our dominion. We may be boring as all Hell right now, but man when that Zombie apocalypse springs on us, you&#8217;ll be happy to have our swords.

Political discussions are fine, provided the benchmark of what are facts are understood by all, when we can&#8217;t even agree what are facts, everything else goes out the window, and mayhem reigns.


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## granfire (Aug 5, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> 5 days ago, MartialTalk officially turned 10.
> 10 years. 10 long years.
> 10 years of ups and downs.
> $50,000 spent on software, hosting, bandwidth, long distance calls, fliers, business cards, tee shirts, pens, and who can remember what else.
> ...


Ah, have a bubble bath, some good chocolates and a glass of adult beverage.


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## Twin Fist (Aug 5, 2011)

the square root of Chuck Norris is pain


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## granfire (Aug 5, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> the square root of Chuck Norris is pain



:lfao:

random, but funny


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 5, 2011)

granfire said:


> Ah, have a bubble bath, some good chocolates and a glass of adult beverage.



I need a deeper tub.  Maybe in a few weeks.


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## granfire (Aug 5, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I need a deeper tub.  Maybe in a few weeks.


just let the Little Lady give you a deep tissue Massage...


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## Carol (Aug 6, 2011)

Or...have her dress you in a tiger suit...


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## Sukerkin (Aug 6, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> Take a wonder through and lurk for a while in the JSA section, there&#8217;s only a handful of us there. Problem is we are all seasoned veterans who tend to agree with each other and who trip over each other trying to help the odd newbie who stumbles across our dominion. We may be boring as all Hell right now, but man when that Zombie apocalypse springs on us, you&#8217;ll be happy to have our swords.




It's a point I've made myself when asked why it is that I, if the political hooplaa annoys me so, don't post more on my martial art.  I think perhaps we, the JSA membership, could perhaps post up a few things about our art that are aimed at people who don't know anything about Japanese swordsmanship?  I don't imagine that the response rate would blow our tabi off but it might be worth a try - after all, the thread I started on the shape of the katana got quite a few posts, which did rather surprise me.




Ken Morgan said:


> Political discussions are fine, provided the benchmark of what are facts are understood by all, when we can&#8217;t even agree what are facts, everything else goes out the window, and mayhem reigns.


  Therein lies the major problem when attempting to converse about fanatically held beliefs i.e. reasonableness is the first victim, closely followed by the slaughter of attempting to see the other persons point of view.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 6, 2011)

Carol said:


> Or...have her dress you in a tiger suit...



Okay, I admit it, I'm English and I don't understand this


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## ETinCYQX (Aug 6, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I wandered into the aikido forum and Steven Seagal broke my wrist.  But the worst part is that he made me listen to his country music.  It was...  *shudder* awful.  I will never go into the aikido forum again.  That place is scary!



Steven plays the blues. It's also awful and I say that as a self proclaimed blues purist.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 6, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Okay, I admit it, I'm English and I don't understand this


Tiger Stripe Bikini


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## Archangel M (Aug 6, 2011)

I cant understand the whole "lets shut down political debate" thing. If it bothers you DONT PARTICIPATE!


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> I cant understand the whole "lets shut down political debate" thing. If it bothers you DONT PARTICIPATE![/QUO
> 
> If you don't participate then views which are extreme or are misrepresentative of something you are or believe in get left unchallenged. As the forum is open to the public to not challenge such views leaves the field open to those that want to push their own agenda. The other thing of course is why should we be driven away from civilised discussions by those unwilling to be civil?
> I don't think we should close it down but there is a code of behaviour agreed by all posters, there is also an agreement, unspoken perhaps or unwritten that subjects which are hugely emotive should be written with a eye to not being sensationalist or shocking for the sake of it. I was suggesting that we just have an agreed break from posting things just for the sake of upsetting other posters in the hope that  a short rest would lower the temptatons to post stuff just to hack off someone else.


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## Steve (Aug 6, 2011)

ETinCYQX said:


> Steven plays the blues. It's also awful and I say that as a self proclaimed blues purist.


I should have known it was the Blues because it was so bad I was overwhelmed with sadness. 



			
				archangel said:
			
		

> I cant understand the whole "lets shut down political debate" thing. If it bothers you DONT PARTICIPATE!


Along the lines of what Tez said, some of the things put out around here are extremist.  Some of it is downright hateful.  Not challenging these posts could imply general agreement.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I should have known it was the Blues because it was so bad I was overwhelmed with sadness.
> 
> Along the lines of what Tez said, some of the things put out around here are extremist. Some of it is downright hateful.* Not challenging these posts could imply general agreement*.



Well said sir, you put it much more succintly than I!


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## Archangel M (Aug 6, 2011)

So..it's "don't post stuff that I don't agree with"???


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

Some people do not like it when others disagree with them:

http://bigjournalism.com/wthuston/2...how-democrats-would-shut-you-up-tea-partiers/

from the article:

On MSNBC, John Kerry told us that Tea Party ideas are not &#8220;real&#8221; ideas, not &#8220;factual,&#8221; and thinks that the media should stop reporting on anything that smacks of ideas or news coming from Tea Partiers.
-----------------------------------------------------

So much for free and open debate and that old saying about "I hate what you say,but I would defend to the death your right to say it."


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> So..it's "don't post stuff that I don't agree with"???



Not in the least. It's don't post insults, don't post things like 'dead arabs are good Arabs', don't post that 'all Muslims are evil' etc etc. You know that I'm as argumentative as they come so posting something I don't like is no problem to me, I'll argue  but when we gets things that are clearly inflammatory people should think before they write.

Billcihak, that's pot and kettle, because in the OP you call those who disagree with you misguided hence my posting about you being patronising.


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## Archangel M (Aug 6, 2011)

Or label it as "racist, hateful, etc.". While some of the political postings HAVE been a bit more "extreme" in their views I have not noticed anything blatantly hateful, racist or trying to incite any sort of action.

Stomping on discussion of "sensitive" topics with the "you are hateful boots" seems more like an attempt to prevent debate issues the poster doesn't like. Methinks that the same treatment wouldn't be applied to issues the complainer agreed with.


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

Yes, I do believe that some of the posters here are misguided, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to post their ideas on the study.  I wouldn't in any way want them stopped from posting their thoughts and ideas, which is why I said it was good to see some of them back.  I do not want to silence speach in any way.  Speech is a way to clarify and challenge existing ideas and a way to broach new ideas.  Having one side only in an argument is pretty pointless.  You won't find any post where  I ask someone to be silenced, or that they shouldn't be allowed to post their thoughts and ideas.  Can all of you say the same thing?


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## Steve (Aug 6, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> So..it's "don't post stuff that I don't agree with"???


Haha.  That's what you got out of it?  Wow.

Okay, here's the way I see it.  MT is a community that I've become a part of.  Most of the people here are great, and the community is one I was gladly associated with.  Over years, the rhetoric of the site has shifted further and further away from me.  Now, I could leave the site, but there are people here I like.  There are conversations I enjoy.  And for what it's worth, I believe that I am associated with the site.   And it's largely one person (not you, billcihak) who represents to me a frighteningly radical and crazy position.

I'm not saying he shouldn't post.  What I'm saying is that I feel obligated to respond in order to be on record as opposing his craziness.


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

Archangel, well said.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

Always amusing when people deliberately misunderstand you. It's not a case of stopping people posting, more a case of please don't say that whole groups of people are better dead.
Misguided? Billcihak,  When you label people and you decide what they believe in I don't think that comes under 'misguided'. You have decided certain people her are what you call 'lefties', incorrectly as it happens, at least one person has told you they are conservative but you insist that you know better than the posters what their beliefs and politcal persuasions are then brow beat everyone with your infomercials which everyone has stopped reading as the facts in most of them have been proved wrong so many times now.

Exactly who were you addressing when you siad welcome back to the left? I bet the people you name aren't 'left' at all. i know I', not and if you insist I am you will prove my point!


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

Hmm...I used that title because it was more concise than "welcome back to all the people who disagree with me."  In the posts, I usually say, "people who are on the other side of the issue than I am," because, to be fair, some here call themselves conservative.  I use the term "left" in more of a general sense than against the people on the study in particular.  At least I try to, and I am sure if I did call someone on the study a lefty it will be found.  I will call public figures lefty, in particular when it seems appropriate,  like Matt Damon and others like him.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

So amusing when people deliberately misunderstand. I suggested a moratorium because I don't like to see Bob upset about what is going on on HIS site, it's not fair on him after all the time, effort and money he puts into this place. I wasn't suggesting we shut up shop just that some people needed a little time from wishing a whole group of people dead to reflect that is not the best way to sort out problems. 

Billcihak, who were you addressing when you posted you OP? At least one poster has told you he's not left he's a conservative. You have acquired a habit of telling people where they stand politically and posting these infomercials that espouse one point of view while not allowing any other. I'm sure as hell not on the left so who was it you were welcoming back?


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

I believe in the first post I stated it was people who disagreed with me, and that would be a general statement.  As many point out, they don't consider themselves left and yet they disagree with me, so, if they haven't been posting in a while and they started posting again, I welcomed them back.  Of all the people here, I don't think you can say that I don't allow  other points of view.  One, I have no control over who posts here on the threads, this site or what they post.  I also have made very clear in the various threads, that I am not a supporter of censorship, I could care less about thread and posts drifting off topic, and that I welcome the debate, which was also in the original post.  I believe in the Bill of Rights of the U.S. and that Freedom of speech is vital to a free society.  I have said if people are upset by what I post they shouldn't read them, but that is less telling them they can't and just acknowledging that they should take responsibility for their actions.


Also, there are over 90 non-study threads here at martail talk.  yOu have to actively seek out the study, and actively seek out specific threads and then use your fingers to activate the thread so you can read it.  If you don't want to be upset, whose fault is that? (The only exception to that is Bob, whose site it is, he can react anyway he wants because...this is his site.  I respect him for his efforts on our part.)

Which group of people did who wish dead, I don't recall seeing that post anywhere.


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## Twin Fist (Aug 6, 2011)

No one has said this





Tez3 said:


> 'dead arabs are good Arabs',


 
or this


Tez3 said:


> don't post that 'all Muslims are evil'



so, since both your examples are false, i can only  assume you mean "dont post things i dont like or things i disagree with"


that might fly over in your neck of the woods, but you see, we faught and kicked your asses so we could say whatever we want.



Tez3 said:


> but when we gets things that are clearly inflammatory people should think before they write.



you either believe in freedom of speech or you dont, you pretty clearly dont.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

What a load of rubbish guys, and you know it, you are twisting things around so much you'd rival Peter Mandelson. Oh dear Tez doesn't like being disagreed with, sorry wrong. I live for being disagreed with, it makes my day when people spout nonsense and I can rip it apart, I find it highly amusing. I post with a grin on my face, I sharpen up my mental claw and out they come. I don't believe in free speech? Really? No, I don't think so, I believe anyone should be able to open their mouth and make a fool of themselves by parrotting their partyline. 
Carry on thinking you know what I mean, think and how I vote. Don't make the mistake of thinking I'm upset, trust me I'm not, I find it hilarious that people post up on the internet imagining it is somehow a valid way to pass on their valuable political insights. You might not like my opinions but at least they are mine lol, I don't need to follow a party line, I follow my conscience and base my judgements on my experiences.


If you chose to think I want to close discussions down because people disagree with me crack on sunshine, it seems more likely you want me to shut up roflmao!


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## Twin Fist (Aug 6, 2011)

mendelson? nice, if totally BS, reference.

as to the rest? whatever makes you feel better


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> mendelson? nice, if totally BS, reference.
> 
> as to the rest? whatever makes you feel better



Now I would have thought you would have heard of Peter M*a*ndelson seeing as he was the one who passed the lies to Blair who passed them to Bush who started the war to save us from the WMD!

If I came on here to make myself feel better I'd be sadly disappointed wouldn't I now? ROFLFAO.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 6, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> that might fly over in your neck of the woods, but you see, we faught and kicked your asses so we could say whatever we want.



You mean the French did, in that particular area of the world, on your behalf whilst we were busy fighting everybody else who thought they had a right to Empire.

I don't mind people being proud of their independence, it just stinks when they don't give the credit where it is due.  Mind you, being proud to be part of a nation founded by terrorists and traitors seems a bit odd .

Also, don't think for a second that if, in the eyes of the government of the day, the American colony had been worth keeping it wouldn't still be British.  It just happened to be the traitors good luck that Britain decided that the West Indies was more worth fighting for.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 6, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> that might fly over in your neck of the woods, but you see, we faught and kicked your asses so we could say whatever we want.



Funny, we left of our own free will 90 years later without killing anyone&#8230;..(could have done it earlier, but no one wanted to.)


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## Twin Fist (Aug 6, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> Also, don't think for a second that if, in the eyes of the government of the day, the American colony had been worth keeping it wouldn't still be British.  It just happened to be the traitors good luck that Britain decided that the West Indies was more worth fighting for.



yeah, you fought, and lost for 4 years for something you didnt want anyway.............


sure thing. You might want to stop spiking your tea Partner....


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## billc (Aug 6, 2011)

He might be drinking that brown stuff in the beer mug instead of tea.  That stuff from the book of world records or something.


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## Tez3 (Aug 7, 2011)

Ah the children are being rude to their parents again. some children can never see that they should be grateful to their parents for giving them their start in life even if it was a bit rocky and they are now fractious teens.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 7, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> yeah, you fought, and lost for 4 years for something you didnt want anyway.............



:lol:  You misread me, mate.  I didn't say the British government didn't want the American colony, it was that it wasn't worth the expense at the time.  You have to recall that America was still a 'hardscrabble' (is that the right term?) affair back then and the depth of it's natural resources was not properly appreciated.  The West Indies were 'clearly' a better source of profit and as the British could not devote the necessary military assets to take and hold both of them (amongst various other wars and territories), the West Indies 'won' the right to fall under the Union Flag .

It was a bad political decision in hindsight - just think what the world would be like if the British had jumped the other way {sighs and dreams of the days of Empire ROFL}.


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## Twin Fist (Aug 7, 2011)

Mark, yeah, check your tea, someone's emptied some vodka into it..... but what do i know, i am just a "teenager"

whatever


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 7, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> :lol:  You misread me, mate.  I didn't say the British government didn't want the American colony, it was that it wasn't worth the expense at the time.  You have to recall that America was still a 'hardscrabble' (is that the right term?) affair back then and the depth of it's natural resources was not properly appreciated.  The West Indies were 'clearly' a better source of profit and as the British could not devote the necessary military assets to take and hold both of them (amongst various other wars and territories), the West Indies 'won' the right to fall under the Union Flag .
> 
> It was a bad political decision in hindsight - just think what the world would be like if the British had jumped the other way {sighs and dreams of the days of Empire ROFL}.


Maybe we would have been called South Canada.


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## Tez3 (Aug 7, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Mark, yeah, check your tea, someone's emptied some vodka into it..... but what do i know, i am just a "teenager"
> 
> whatever




Ooo look a post of yours I can agree with! However Mark strikes me as a man you can hadle his drink, anyway in vino veritas


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## Jenna (Aug 7, 2011)

I am sorry to say it and but reading through all the heat here I think I can maybe see why our poor Bob is contemplating going on leave for a bit!!! 

Come on guys, CHILL FOR A BIT! 

*I mean, what would Chuck Norris think of all this?  Hmm?*


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## Twin Fist (Aug 7, 2011)

Chuck Norris doesnt "think"

he KNOWS


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## Sukerkin (Aug 7, 2011)

:nods: Aye, 'appen as like {broad Yorkshire accent}


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## Blade96 (Aug 14, 2011)

I'll bring soup for bob after his bubble bath.


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