# Children's curriculi; watered down ???



## Brother John (Sep 30, 2003)

It seems to be mere business fact that a good children's group/class in a martial arts school is important for revenue. It makes sense as the mystique of the martial arts and the impressive abilities of many martial artists can easily dazzle the eyes of the young and many parents are looking for a worthwhile recreational activity to put their kids into... and the fringe benefits of martial arts training just makes good sense.

Here's my question(s): 
Do you (or your school) teach a children's class?

Is the material and instruction the same for the kidos as for the "regular" class? (not just methods of instruction, of course that Will be different merely due to the difference in education levels, discipline and attention span)

If there is no difference, why?

If there is a difference, why?

Thanks
I hope this turns into a beneficial discussion/debate.
Your brother
John


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## MisterMike (Sep 30, 2003)

My last school did teach a children's curriculum. My current one does not.

The material was different.

The ranks were given as Jr. rankings.


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## jeffkyle (Sep 30, 2003)

The last school I was at did teach a kids curriculum different than the adults. 

I believe it was moderated well.

BUT a long time ago that same school did NOT have a different curriculum and the kids seemed to handle the adult curriculum well, but they progressed a bit slower than the adults.


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## kenposikh (Sep 30, 2003)

At our schools we teach the same basics as adults learn however techniques are brought in at green belt level. Up until then we concentrate on sparring techniques improving, consolidating basics etc. By the time they get to the adult classes a junior black belt is then studying the adult yellow belt however they do have a majopr advantage as their understanding of stances and other principles is far better than a new adult for example.


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## michaeledward (Sep 30, 2003)

At the school where I study, the 'Little Dragons', (6 or younger), they learn 3 techniques per belt, stripped down forms, and play a lot of games. I view the material much like an childs gymnastics class, learning motor skills and body-awareness.

There is a 'Kenpo Kids' (7 to 12), learn about 1/2 of the adult material. 

The techniques use weapons and targets that are less dangerous than those techniques we adults learn; we may learn a technique with an inserted eye-poke, the young'uns learn the technique with out the eye-poke.

By the time a Kenpo Kid reaches a 'Jr.' Black Belt, they have learned about as much material as an adult blue belt, although different techniques.

I think this makes a lot of sense... teach the kids good self defense techniques, but with some limitations.

Peace - Mike


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## Michael Billings (Oct 2, 2003)

I taught the adult criteria to kids since 1989.  I had none make it to Brown until this year.  They started with me at 9 or 10 and are now 15 and I have my 1st Brown Belt.  I lost others due to frustration, inability to memorize the volume of material, difficulty "understanding" the concepts and principles.  I recently started using a variation using "Universal Forms", that start with basics, including kicks, and move quickly to variations of Short 2, Long 2, Short 3, etc., but in more managable chunks.  8 - 10 techs per chart, and of course a bunch of basics.

I am still evaluating this, but it looks good and appears to be workable (except for me learning 8 new forms.)  The Junior Belt is through 5th Black, as if I would ever see one get that high without getting to an adult age.  I am not ruling it out ... I just do not see it now.  They should be ready for their 1st Adult Black by then.

-MB


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## kroh (Oct 2, 2003)

Teaching children has always been a touchy subject.  DO you teach them to bite or to gouge the eyes?  What about a stiff punch to the center of the throat.

In the school where I train, the techniques are modified so that the children are given a mode of defending themselves while at the same time not being lethal.  

We also teach a prep class for young kids but as was said in a previous post, games and excercizes to get them ready for the next stage in their training.

My instructor makes fun of me when i teach that class ( tiny ones) he calls me Yoda and the kids my padawans....

There are some days when there are just not enough water balloons in the world...

Thanx for the minute...
WalT


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## oldnewbie (Oct 2, 2003)

Although my school isn't Kempo, we have children and adults in the same class.

The adults are held to a higher standard in technique and form, and the children are not.

It's interesting to note though, some of the kids watch the adults and try to imitate the higher standard, others are pleased at the lower standards. You can tell the difference in the two types of kids in about 30 seconds....


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## jukado1 (Oct 4, 2003)

I teach a non kenpo based style, and our kids training is totaly different then the adult program, the situations children face or much different then what an adult would face.  the childrens program is much more judo based,  we do some of the same basics, but most of the s-d practice is ground and grappeling orianted as most of kids attacks dont need to damage a attacker, but we do try to mention and train children in what we call deadly attackes, attackes by adults, or teenagers of a gangbang mentality.


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## Kenpomachine (Oct 4, 2003)

As I began in 1983 as a kid in a children's class (10-13) with the same material as the adults, I think that is the way to go. 
We went slowler through the material than the adults, and we tested once a year. Those years the program taught in Spain was a third of what it is now in most schools, only 56 techniques.
I liked it and enjoyed working the techniques a lot.
The children's class I help assist is in the same school, but now has a different curricula, mostly without techs and sets. Kids are also now younger than we were (8-11).
Those two years make a whole lot of difference, as the older children help with the discipline in class as they have a larger attention span.

My answer to this? Kids from 10 up should be allowed to began working with techniques. Their being kids doesn't mean they're idiots and doesn't know what's right or wrong, or what may harm other people.


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 4, 2003)

Kids are great because they think Karate is cool. Adults need to believe they are learning secret stuff and continualy be convinced that this is worth their time. So what happens? They get taught advanced specialized moves too soon! Practicly worthless, but cool all the same. Too bad they arent kids. They are happy learning and mastering the basics.


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## Goldendragon7 (Oct 24, 2003)

IMHO, a well organized childrens program will be an asset to any studio, financially and as a stepping stone to the Jr. and on into the Adult Classes.

"If you want to get someone to where you want them...... You must start with where they are"!

As some have stated trying to put a round peg in a square hole is difficult and even frustrating for both the student and the instructor.

Yet, a program like Mike has posted seems to be working very well for their studio, and if ask him I bet he will tell you that it can work for anyone.  

A well thought out and graduated program nets many benefits, as the young student matures so does the material such as eyepokes and other material that may be deemed dangerous or that you wouldn't want to stress to the very impressionable young.

At the same time you can get a chance to have fun and emphasize basics as TOD mentioned (and the kids do love it if taught well), and can take advantage of molding youthful bodies and minds with strong principles, dicipline, respect, all the while getting them ready for survival in the streets.

Great comments.

:asian:


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## don bohrer (Oct 24, 2003)

Our kids class have a limited tech chart and learn only the short kata. Since kids have tons of energy we try to make class fun by adding games, grappling and we look at interesting ways to challenge them. It's junior black until age 16. Then back through the ranks to learn the other half of the system. I think this is a money idea rather than some techs being to leathal for children. In any event we often lose older teens because of school or hormones. 

I do think it's a good idea to have a kids and even a family program. Yes... some schools are run like day care. However it doesn't have to be like this. Kids can have disipline and solid basics if handled right. They just need to have fun doing it. Also kids classes bring adults in the door. If the instructor has the right vision everyone can benifit.

don


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## Kenpo68 (Oct 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by michaeledward _
> *At the school where I study, the 'Little Dragons', (6 or younger), they learn 3 techniques per belt, stripped down forms, and play a lot of games. I view the material much like an childs gymnastics class, learning motor skills and body-awareness.
> *



This sounds almost identical to the children's program in our school, also called "Little Dragons."


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## Titan Uk (Oct 30, 2003)

At the class that I teach in the children get a watered down version of what the adults get. This is for their protection and the clubs protection. 
A little knowledge of what the adults get can be good. 
The children at a young age below 12 years old can not understanding the full consequences of the adult techniques.
Other forms are included for them to replace the adult techniques. 
But it is very hard to keep the children interested throughout the complete lesson.
The number of kids do seem to drop off through the summer months but generally there is a new intake of young members throught the winter months.
Only a few juniors have manged to make it to junior Black belt but then they have also fallen by the wayside due to other interest, my daughter being one.

For the past couple of months I have been running a junior and senior class at the same time. This has not been easy but once you are into the swing of things then it become easier and the kids get to look at what the adults do and they can then ask if they want to try it.


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## Brother John (Dec 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *IMHO, a well organized childrens program will be an asset to any studio, financially and as a stepping stone to the Jr. and on into the Adult Classes.
> 
> "If you want to get someone to where you want them...... You must start with where they are"!
> *


Agreed!
Thanks everyone for such thoughtful replies.
I really look forward to getting my Kids and Jr. programs off the ground and running (playing).
Your Brother
John


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## Rob Broad (Dec 15, 2003)

Adults and children have different needs, therefore their programs should be different.  Children's programs should focuson Fun, Fitness and Fundamentals.  It should also work on social skill, anger management, and safety.  Children can be a gold mine to an instructor who is concious of their specific needs.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 20, 2004)

I think adults need to feel like they are learning dangerous and secret stuff, but for the most part the curriculum should be the same.


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## ellaminnowpea (Feb 10, 2004)

I do teach kids classes (pee wees 4-7, older kids 8-12) and teen classes.  Teens get precisely what the adults get, though it may take them longer to digest pricinples

Younger kids are taught the same basics, good form, kata, techniques, but it moves at a much slower pace.  Rather than require the same techniques as I would from a teen or adult for each rank, I require less.  As they move up in rank (and in years), my requirements for them grow.


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## 8253 (Feb 12, 2004)

I believe childrens classes should be watered down due to the fact that personally I would not want a child to be intentionally taught how to maim or kill someone.  It is not healthy for children to learn or think about such things at a young age.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 13, 2004)

In the kid's classes at our studio we teach them a lot of the same material but it's presented in a slightly different way.  We do teach some of the adult tecniques but they come from various lists and techniques off the same adult list might be taught at different levels for the kids.  We focus a lot on basic combos like front-kick;jab;cross;elbow because, realistically, that probably the type of thing that most of us are going to do on the street as well as the fact that these types of drills help develop their motor-skills and coordination.  One of the biggest things we stress is environmental awareness and avoiding the situation rather than having to engage.  We use a lot of "games" and activities to teach these types of lessons, this way the training is fun and it's harder for their attention to wander.  We also incorporate some basic BJJ grappling into the curriculum, for example, we teach a couple of mount escapes in case they end up on the ground.


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## TigerWoman (Nov 5, 2004)

Watered down requirement, my favorite subject right now...

No, children learn differently than adults.  They are also not disciplined enough at young ages to do endless repetition that us adults do to gain muscle besides memory. And while we can go 5-8 times to class during a week, their parents usually bring them twice a week.

And you didn't qualify that last choice.  I don't think 5 year olds are equipped to do martial arts.  Maybe a fun kicking class, but not learn forms etc.  I was teaching left and right, last night, arrghh!  

Besides the fact that if they don't stay in it until they graduate from school, how much to they retain?  If they start later, their parents might see the value grow more and keep them in.  TW


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## loki09789 (Nov 5, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Watered down requirement, my favorite subject right now...
> 
> No, children learn differently than adults. They are also not disciplined enough at young ages to do endless repetition that us adults do to gain muscle besides memory. And while we can go 5-8 times to class during a week, their parents usually bring them twice a week.
> 
> ...


With kids that small, I think private/small group lessons are the way to go honestly if the goal is to instruct them well and not just to give them the experience and 'extra-curricular' idea (as if MA is the same as gymnastics and such - geez!).  My son only worked with me one on one semi-regularly for a while before he went to a group class during the 'bring a friend day' on the invitation of one of his classmates - he wiped the floor with the green belts in the class in terms of form, power, personal discipline, energy, focus.... Now some of that is due to the 'newness' of it and the novelty but some also has to do with how hard it is to focus student attention and development when you have 13 or more children to control and teach.


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## pete (Nov 5, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> ... he wiped the floor with the green belts in the class in terms of form, power, personal discipline, energy, focus....



you should be proud of your boy!  

but, how are those attributes discernable from a similar type of display in "gymnastics and such - geez!"... 

pete


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## OC Kid (Nov 24, 2004)

My class I teach the kids basically the same things as adults. But I dont teach them knee stomps throat shots ect. I keep it mainly with basic self defense. But as for sparring yea I teach the same techniques.


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## rainbows (Nov 27, 2004)

Back when I did kenpo, we had lower testing requirements for juniors, 10 techniques for yellow and 14 techniques per belt up to black. The standard adult system was 24 techniques per belt after yellow(10 again). Sparring was identical, in fact I sparred all adults for junior black belt and I was attending senior class from the time I was 13.


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## hardheadjarhead (Nov 27, 2004)

I'm not going to teach six year old kids how to do testical crushes and eye gouges.  Conversely, I'm not going to teach an adult how to handle a schoolyard bully (unless I'm teaching parents/prospective parents).  

Time needs to be spent with the children on certain issues of discipline and etiquette that adults don't need.  Things like not touching your mouth to the water fountain when taking a water break--or for the boys pulling them all into the bathroom to show them how to lift the lid.  They hear it from their teachers and parents, they get it from me--hammers in some lessons.  It also makes it easier for us to clean the bathroom.

Some things the adults do are far too painful for children.  Then too, some things children can do are far too painful for older adults.


Regards,


Steve


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## kenpo tiger (Nov 28, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> I'm not going to teach six year old kids how to do testical crushes and eye gouges. Conversely, I'm not going to teach an adult how to handle a schoolyard bully (unless I'm teaching parents/prospective parents).
> 
> Time needs to be spent with the children on certain issues of discipline and etiquette that adults don't need. Things like not touching your mouth to the water fountain when taking a water break--or for the boys pulling them all into the bathroom to show them how to lift the lid. They hear it from their teachers and parents, they get it from me--hammers in some lessons. It also makes it easier for us to clean the bathroom.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

I teach only kids' classes at our school - through choice.  The Tiny Tigers (4 year olds) learn basics.  We also teach them to work with others as a team, which is, imo, a very important concept for them to be introduced to at their age.  They are also beginning to participate in team sports at this age (soccer and t-ball), so that reinforces the concept.  The Little Dragons (5 - 7 year olds) learn four "techniques" created by our master instructor, which are, again, nothing more than combos of basic punches and kicks.  They are also taught created sets (ditto for basics).  [I hesitate to call them 'watered down', as someone did upthread, because basics are so important to martial arts.]  Once those are performed to our satisfaction, the kids begin to learn modified kenpo techs.  No pokes, chokes, or anything other than that which would be able to assist the child in defending him/herself and getting away to tell an adult.  Juniors continue through the belt levels as adults do, but with modified techs.  

We are about to get our first junior black belt on December 11th - Pete and Kenpo Mama's son - and he is truly amazing to watch.  He has a work ethic which surpasses that of many adults and an understanding of the techs and forms which is impressive.

While I agree that a children's program is monetarily vital to a martial arts school where there are no side programs like ladies' classes in aerobics or the like, I disagree that that is all it's about.  The kids talk to me about things which are surprising at times.  It's not just about kenpo.  It's about watching a child "get it" and see the smiles when they are able to do something we've worked on for a long time.  It's also the hugs at the end of class, or a simple "thank you for showing that to me".  One of my Little Dragons is testing for her yellow belt in December.  She is painfully shy but has begun to come out of her shell and will one day be a great martial artist - if she chooses to stay with it.  I'm looking forward to that day as much as she and her parents are.  KT


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## still learning (Nov 28, 2004)

Hello, Our kids class,(pee wees-5-7) has a different curriculum from the older kids . The (5-7) has  require materials  written down by our Professor for pee-wees to learn.  Really basic stuffs and we try to keep it on the fun side too.

 7-13 years old will train at their belt levels curriculum ( Junior - level materials.)
 Our school has requirements for the Juniors to learn. Almost the same as the adults class.  By the time they are adults, they will be able to continune and keep-up with the adults class. Many juniors will continune the upper levels of the junior advance materials. The phyical stuffs are less than adults,and more time to learn all the marterials.

 13-17 advance juniors train with the adults class but covers the junior level workbook requirements set by the professor.  Their learning steps up and the level of intensity also increase.  We have all our marterials written down for each belt level and requirements to the next level for all students.


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## Doc (Nov 28, 2004)

Brother John said:
			
		

> Here's my question(s):
> Do you (or your school) teach a children's class?
> John


No I do not. Most children would not be capapble of meeting the admission requirements. However my assigned thesis for 7th was on constructing a rank criterior that compartmentalized and accounted for children, juniors, adults, and transfer students from different styles of all ages. Unfortunately Ed Parker Sr. to my knowledge never implimented it.


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## parkerkarate (Nov 28, 2004)

At my teachers studio, we teach two kids classes. A regular kids class for 5 year olds to about 12 or so. And than a preschool class for 3 1/2 year olds.


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## shesulsa (Jan 4, 2005)

I'm not a Kenpoist, but I did wish to contribute to the thread.

First let me say that several of you have made excellent points - Mr. Conaster, a well-rounded children's program does, as you said, contribute to any good school.  It's really great to get sprouting adults and teens in to assist with the little ones.  A great way to polish up what you know or to learn it better is to teach it to someone younger or newer (or just plain different).  Good to hear someone else in favor of a kids curriculum for more than just financial boosts.

Steve, reinforcing basic, yet important elements of living is part of what a good kids program is all about.  Kudos.

I've been assisting teachers of kid's classes for over five years now.  In that amount of time, the curriculum for the children's classes has changed a few times.  First, the program taught one or two long forms behind the adults and only one short form per rank except white, with a select 10 techniques from the adult syllabus (out of at least 28) for each rank.  The second time, the techniques were broken down into thirds, so a children's white rank would learn the first 10 of adult white, orange would learn the second 10 of adult white, then kids' yellow would learn the final 10 of adult white.  

A couple of years ago, we had a sweeping curriculum change for the adult syllabus and now the children's program is virtually identical to the adult syllabus except we do not teach fatal or extremely devastating techniques to children and we do not teach weapons to anyone under the age of 16, only do so with parental consent and any exceptions to that must be approved in advance by the head instructor of our academy.

We have two children in the class I currently assist in who are red rank, one is about to be promoted to half-black so we are at least a year from having our first young black belt.  He will be at least fourteen at that time, maybe fifteen which may be old enough for full-fledged black rank.  These are the kinds of calls our head instructor can make on a one-by-one basis because we're small enough.  

Teaching kids is very enlightening.  You have to find ways around difficulties you didn't think you'd ever have to address and if you can teach a room full of kids, you can teach anyone - at least the basics.

What is most interesting to me is to see the differences in children.  We have a very young man with loads of talent who is breaking down kicks, self-correcting his stances and has NO problem working his material repeatedly.  Yes, these kids are rare, but they also serve as examples.  I think he's around seven.


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## kroh (Jan 6, 2005)

SHesulsa, 

What a great post.  I wholeheartedly agree that, just like in the prgram that you are a part of, children should not be given the same skills as adults.  Similar...but not the same.  Due to their age and also the fact that we live in a litegation happy society, the school could be liable for the actions of the student.

I have been working with kids since the early 90's and I have to day that it is the best part of my day.  Usually i get to the classes about an hour before the kids hit the floor and i will usually grapple or fight with the kids or train with them in some way before the classes.  Seeing all the fire and passion they bring to the floor (some of them anyway) gets me fired up for my own classes.  

But i still agree with the above in that kids should be given a "shadow" program that is a slight reflection f the adult program.  That way when they are ready for the material, they can be eased into it with minimal difficulty and stress.  Another good thing about doing it this way is that the program grows with the student.  As the student becomes more mature (hopefully), they will be able to receive the higher teachings that allows them to be more productive with their skill.  Good stuff all around....

Regards,
Walt


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## Sam (Jan 30, 2005)

we have two kids classes a week, for kids 11 and under. But children can (and often do) attend adult classes. Sometimes its annoying, when your on a bag with a 9 year old who's only there because his mom makes him, but on the other hand there's kids like 5-year-old Woody who looks about 3 and knows brown belt techniques. (he was trying to teach me finger set last week). He just got his orange belt because before this he's been too young to test. But I'm willing to bet that little munchkin will go very far in MA. You haven't seen anything til you've seen a 6 foot instructor teaching him to spar. Woody's head only comes up to his belt! Yeah I'm going so off topic here but Woody is so cute I just can't help it.

Anyway, when the younger kids attend adult classes they learn the same things as the adults. In children's classes, they play games like blockers, which is basically sparring with big fluffy bats, and techniques that are not so harsh as the adult classes.

However I think our adult classes are similiar to YOUR children's classes, because we do a lot of repition of the basics - we have private lessons to learn new stuff.


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## Drifter (Jan 30, 2005)

In my school, the kids get another stripe on their belt for every third of the adult techniques they learn for the next belt, so that they get the same techniques, and they get the stripes as an incentive of sorts. 

The thing that annoys me, though, is when kids who are the borderline of children's and adult classes come to the adult classes and aren't willing to work, and quite obviously don't practice often. I really think they should get cleared by an instructor to move up, instead of doing something they aren't ready for. I think it boils down to their maturity.


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## Ray (Jan 31, 2005)

I don't teach kids younger than 5.  I teach the same thing to youngsters that I teach to adults.  But, at play with my own children and grand-children, I have shown them how to kick and punch correctly.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 31, 2005)

My instructor taught us that for children, techniques like "low block" and "high block" and the rest of them were taught with very little interpretation.  A "low block" was actually a low block etc.  This was done because the techniques, when taught this way were not overtly dangerous, yet the student was still learning the "real moves" for when they came of age.

In my dojang, I've taken this bit of tradition and whittled down our lists.  Application is straight forward and designed to teach children basic self defense, coordination, flexability, speed, and physical fitness.  

In my children's class, I take kids as young as six years old.  We move slowly and we play games to teach various aspects of MA.  The pace of the class moves quickly, though and the kids are always moving.  

I feel comfortable "graduating" a student in my children's classes to my adult classes when they reach 13 years of age.  If that student has shown good character and a true passion for our "do" as a child, I am very excited to train them as adults.  My first priority, though, when attempting to make this transition is to gauge their ability, maturity, and character...

13 to 15 can be shaky ground from a developmental standpoint.  These students, right off the street, immediately go into my kids class until I can gauge some of their personal attributes.  When I feel that I know them well enough and I can trust them, I may "invite" them to my adult classes.

At 16, I feel that a child is really at the threshold of becoming an adult and that they are ready for more mature training.  If a student shows me that they are not ready, I will ask that student to leave until they can show the maturity that I require.

upnorthkyosa


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## kenpoworks (Feb 12, 2005)

Mervyn Ormond developed a Junior "Basics" driven curriculum that Mr. Parker approved and endorsed.


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## daddyslittle1 (Feb 13, 2005)

the school i am at now does teach children different material.   
my class teaches defense against grips and grabs,some punches and pushes.
the other class does against like almost all attacks.since you should no i am in the childrens class.


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## Seabrook (Feb 14, 2005)

I teach kids from ages 6 and up.

My kids program is forms, sets, and sparring intensive. I teach them self-defense techniques as well, but way less per belt than the adult program. If a student achieves a junior black belt, he/she then has to learn all remaining self-defenses (until all 154 are learned) before he/she can test for 1st degree black belt.

It works well for me but I am interested in other opinions as well.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Raven001 (Feb 15, 2005)

In Tracy's Kenpo the kids program is different. They have the first 10 yellow belt techniques the same and then after that 2 techniques are added each belt instead of 30 tech per belt and they do less forms


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## Seabrook (Feb 15, 2005)

Raven001 said:
			
		

> In Tracy's Kenpo the kids program is different. They have the first 10 yellow belt techniques the same and then after that 2 techniques are added each belt instead of 30 tech per belt and they do less forms


That seems odd. Kids have to learn 10 techniques for yellow belt but then only 2 per belt thereafter?

Which forms are required for kids and which aren't?

Just curious.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## hammer (Feb 15, 2005)

Yes I teach children ,i find it most rewarding yet very challenaging.

I wouldnt say watered down but just re arranged to suit the students, as already stated.
I have a base curriculim with addtional material for the more adept.
Something that i have experinced is that it realy depends on the children in the class as to how much you can teach them,
So i have seperated the childrens class primarliy based on character,attitude and skill, Its great to teach a group of positive , like minded enthusiastic children ,that want to learn . its just like seperating the weeds from the garden ,oh pehaps that is the the wrong attitdue on my part,
but the group dynamics of a childrens class makes a big difference as to the material that you can teach.

A Sample of the junior syllabus to junior purple

*junior yellow*
Basics

*junior orange*
5 techniques , blocking set one
ie, Delayed Sword thru Captured Twiggs

*junior purple* 
5 techniques ,short form 1
ie Grasp of Death thru Sword and Hammer
freestyle b1a thru b4a

*advance purple1&2*
kicking set 1
striking set 1
long form 1
co ordination set 1

I have just completed teaching my students these units approx 18-24 months in duration.

I chose to take this option in skilling my students in basics ,in disguse lol, using the above sets ,as to allow for enjoyment of both teaching and learning the orange belt material which is to follow ,ie cluthing feathers ect 

No disrespect intended, I would welcome any comments or criticism thanks for your input.cheers


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## Kenpobuff (Mar 4, 2005)

Our school teaches the same techniques to both children and adults.  I can see the frustration in both the kids and older ones with respect to the amount of material to learn, but more so with the younger ones.  We have no junior grades and as such no junior black belts.  My instructor feels that a black belt should defend themselves against anyone that may attack.  I can't argue with that.  A typical child's size, weight, physical and mental strength is not developed to do that no matter how well they can perform a form or technique.  I have proven this time and time again with my own tournament champion kids.

I see the frustration and slow learning curve in my kids as they struggle through the material and are quickly loosing interest.  If I was to open my own school I would change the system a little in order to keep their attention and reward them more often for their achievements.  A reward system that encourages kids and recognizes them for their work is a must to keep their interest and the pressure on their parents to keep bringing them to class (just good business).


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## Raven001 (Mar 4, 2005)

I meant that after yellow they learn an additional 2 techniques per belt so
Orange = 12
Purple = 14 
Blue = 16 
Green = 18
3rd Brown = 20
2nd Brown = 22
1st Brown = 24
Black = 26

the forms are 
short 1, short 2, short 3, mass atack, darkroom staff, little tiger There are a few more just cant remember


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## altondragon (Mar 7, 2005)

Students ages 13 and up at our school train alongside adults...this instills values such as family and brotherhood..and polling the teens they find it helpful to work out with grown adults.. for in a real life stituation they will need to know what it feels like and what they need to do to overcome the strength of a full grown adult. Now children 6-13...i wouldnt call it watered down rather modified to fit their needs and mentality. The very little ones (4-6 sometimes older depending on the child)..less focus on the punch and kick..rather: helping them to listen...respect boundries follow, directions and instill confidence... the development of the punch and kick will follow.


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## Isrephael (Mar 25, 2005)

Forgive the correction....

But, the plural is "curricula", not "curriculi".
"Curriculi" would mean "of the curriculum"

That having been said, I think that some parents might object to children being taught how to rupture/maim/cripple/kill and all the other gruesome aspects of a rather hardcore MA like Kempo.
Although, while the parents might object, I'm sure the future psychotherapists of the children would appreciate the job security.


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## The Kai (Mar 28, 2005)

I don't think most kids are ready for the serious study of the martial arts, looking into techniques or even basic applications.

Kids Currculi, watered down


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## Seabrook (Mar 28, 2005)

Kenpobuff said:
			
		

> Our school teaches the same techniques to both children and adults. I can see the frustration in both the kids and older ones with respect to the amount of material to learn, but more so with the younger ones. We have no junior grades and as such no junior black belts. My instructor feels that a black belt should defend themselves against anyone that may attack.


I agree that a black belt should be able to defend him/herself. But then...what age is appropriate to promote a child/adolescent/teenager to black belt in your opinion if you do not have a junior black belt?

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## The Kai (Mar 28, 2005)

16 years old, anyone remember back when that was the rule?


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## rainbows (Apr 23, 2005)

Back when I did kenpo, to turn a junior black into a senior 1st dan, we had to be 18 and we had to do the whole test again. I was 16 getting a junior black...


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## kempo-vjj (Apr 25, 2005)

I train along side my children 8-9. Theres is watered down. At the age they do not need any more than that. Most important also is when and why would I use what I have learned as a child. One student of 12 years old, asked do I gotta kill the person. Some techniques even though watered down still seem to lethal say for a playground fight. Even though this part of explaining is not part of our teachings I make well known to my kids when and why reagrding people and situations. If my child was to break another kids arm at 8-10 yrs of age I do not know what type of trouble we would be into, with the school and parents.


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