# Adult Taekwondo



## danielle (Mar 5, 2015)

I'm 25 and have been training in TKD for 10 years. I'm a second degree black belt and noticed the changes in students I've trained with  over the years. Many leave to new adventures in life . The adult black belt class I attend has mostly teenagers (13-17). I'm feeling awkward because I'm the oldest student in class. Does anyone else have an opinion to add.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 5, 2015)

Grab a cane. Or a walker. Maybe a wheelchair.

MA tends to attract kids. Lots of kids. Kids who grow up, move on, discover other interests. And a few people who stick with it for life. That's just how it is.


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## Drose427 (Mar 5, 2015)

eh, it happens. Most schools dont have enough students to bother splitting. Adults usually work with Adults at some point anyways, even if they have to help the kids first.

Its difficult for many adults to train. Many schools don't lose Adult students because the student wasnt happy, but just because theyve lost the drive, or its too hard to find the time, etc. Martial Arts are a huge commitment, expecially when you already have other obligations.

If someone wants to be there, they will be.

Many times, the 16-20 years are the ones to look out for. Brimming with youth and testosterone and pride! Honestly, it could be worse. More adults will come. Some will stay, some will leave. It happens in all Training halls and gyms and theres nothing anyone can do about it


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## Manny (Mar 5, 2015)

danielle said:


> I'm 25 and have been training in TKD for 10 years. I'm a second degree black belt and noticed the changes in students I've trained with  over the years. Many leave to new adventures in life . The adult black belt class I attend has mostly teenagers (13-17). I'm feeling awkward because I'm the oldest student in class. Does anyone else have an opinion to add.



I'm 47 and been inside TKD for about 30 years,  the adult class consit two moms a 40 years blue belt and the rest is teenagers, and yes I feel awkward because I'm the oldest in class, so go figure you are only 25!

Been a black belt is not an easy task, not everyone make it and most of the shodans quit tkd one or two years afther their bb test, there are many few who stick with TKD these days, for example I had wonderfull competitors fellows but they quit TKD many years ago, I was an average student but with fire inside me  and a very true love for TKD and MA and even I was off tkd for nearly 12 years I get back to it. There are some times I just want to trow the towell and do something else or just rest and have fun with my family but alwasy return to dojang for TKD.

Keep going, you are in such a wonderfull age to scalate in the dan ladder and learning good stuff, over the years you will be a cleaver TKDoing.

Manny


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## TrueJim (Mar 5, 2015)

Age 54 here (having returned to taekwondo after a decades-long break). I'm always trying to get more adults to take class at the school I attend. Our adult/teen class is mostly teens. During some months, I'll be lucky and have 4-5 adults taking class with us, but more lately it's just been me or maybe me and one other adult in a gaggle of teens. I don't mind the embarrassment though, largely because I'm doing this with my 7 year old son (but when he and I take class together of course, we attend the All Belts class, not the Adults/Teen class - then I'm often the only adult).

For me the most embarrassing parts weren't class, they were the color-belt tests/ceremonies with my son. Often it would be me and maybe one other adult in a sea of 40 children taking the test or attending the ceremony. You can't help but stand out when you're a short stubby old man sitting on the floor in a sea of children, testing for (way back then) 5th gup. That having been said, so many parents have come up to me after and said, "I think it's so cool that you're doing this with your child. I could never do that of course, I'm too (whatever excuse: _old, non-athletic, easily embarrassed, non-limber_, whatever...feh, excuses!) but I think it's so cool that you do." So I don't focus on the embarrassment part, I focus on the fact that people view me...the adult...as a role model. Even a lot of the children will confess to me that they wish their parents would take class with them. So many of the little chatterboxes want to just _talk_ to me all the time too; I don't know, I think it makes the children feel like they're doing something _cooler_ because they see it's something a grownup would do too, so they want to connect with me more?

My thinking is that as a 25 year old taking classes with mostly teens, you're sending a message to the teens -- and even the children -- in your school that it's not _uncool_ to keep doing taekwondo as an adult. They don't have to quit when they turn 17, they can keep going into adulthood. Or looking at it another way, *leaders almost always stand out...and standing out is almost always embarrassing*. That's one reason why most people shy away from being leaders: they don't like being the person who stands up first, or speaks up first...that and the fact that leadership is usually more _work_ too. 

Personally, I think it's a badge of honor that you're there by yourself as an adult. That having been said...I sure do like it when more adults show up to my class! (And as an aside, I wish I would have kept going in taekwondo long ago, rather than taking a break. Originally I was diverted by a Ph.D., but still, looking back...could I have not found time for both? I wonder.)


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## Mephisto (Mar 5, 2015)

You ever consider taking another art? You don't have to completely side line your tkd, keep working it and make appearances at your club but try something else too. I've been training FMA for nearly ten years and in that time I've visited many other systems and it's really helped me as a martial artist. I've done 2 years of bjj, nearly 3 years of another form of Eskrima, 6 months at a Kali school, and thus past year starting boxing, all the while I've kept training in my base art. I'd recommend looking into Arnis/Kali/Eskrima it seems to be a natural progression for a lot of martial artists and it is predominately trained by adults. Usually you can find a small informal local club that rents space or trains out of a garage or park. I couldn't imagine where I'd be if id limited myself to only one art for the past ten years. But I've moved a couple of times so has forced me to switch it up.


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## danielle (Mar 6, 2015)

" Leaders almost always stand out…and standing out is almost always embarrassing  ." I love that quote. Never heard it before. I appreciate the positive wisdom. It's more encouraging to stay.


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## Flatfish (Mar 6, 2015)

Similar to what Jim said above, I am often the only adult in the regular curriculum classes but I go with my kids and couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. The sparring class is mostly teens but some adults as well. I don't mind the teens at all, I am happy to be kicking at something above ankle height.


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## IcemanSK (Mar 7, 2015)

When we start training there a lot of folks to look up. Instructors, black belts, higher ranks (maybe even a few MA celebrities who make movies that inspire us). Then, over time, black belts move on, maybe we move away or our instructor does, or or celebrity stops making films because his/her body wore out. The old movies aren't quite the same because, now that you've trained awhile, it's tarnished some of the "mystique" those movies had. It's all just not the same. But there is a green belt who likes the way you carry yourself in class, taught her that trick to make her side kick better, and wants to be like you.

Over time, things change. It's what time does to everything. We change too. Sometimes that change is really hard to deal with. But sometimes, we can capitalize on that change to take on a new role. Maybe now is that opportunity for you, danielle ?


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 7, 2015)

Being the oldest in class may seem strange but only if you let it bother you.  If you are learning and trying your hardest who really cares if your the oldest. If the youngsters in class start making comments just ignore them and keep doing your best they will soon learn to appreciate your effort.  
Yes some of the kicks may be more difficult at your age but learn how to do them as best you can and know how to explain them correctly and have the ability to do them on the ground with the knowledge to say this is when you leave the ground and this is how you  should land.
AH Heck just enjoy the journey it is a great experience.


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## Tames D (Mar 7, 2015)

To the OP...Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it,  TKD has become a kids MA. I would would look into another style/system if I were you.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 7, 2015)

Tames D said:


> To the OP...Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it,  TKD has become a kids MA. I would would look into another style/system if I were you.



This is completely incorrect. While there are certainly commercial schools that cater to the kiddy crowd, this is a phenomenon not limited to TKD, but one that is common in commercial schools of all flavors.


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## Tames D (Mar 7, 2015)

We don't constantly hear this from people in other MA styles. It seems to be a consistant complaint from adult TKD practioners.


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## Drose427 (Mar 7, 2015)

Tames D said:


> We don't constantly hear this from people in other MA styles. It seems to be a consistant complaint from adult TKD practioners.



It's a pretty common complaint in Karate too.  TKD is the most popular martial art in the world by practitioner, hearing 2 or 3 complaints about a commercial school for every one Karate school is kinda reasonable In that perspective


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> It's a pretty common complaint in Karate too.  TKD is the most popular martial art in the world by practitioner, hearing 2 or 3 complaints about a commercial school for every one Karate school is kinda reasonable In that perspective


Have you done much reading on this site?


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## Drose427 (Mar 8, 2015)

Tames D said:


> Have you done much reading on this site?




Here, reddit, and  being affiliated with schools from both. 

Again, when there's twice as many people training in a art, you're going to hear more people complain. It's just numbers

If spend enough time around gyms occasionally you'll run into gyms who don't have a dedicated kids coach. Seen folks complain about that too because they say it takes time from the adults.

Even sport TKD, where the most general complaints tend to be, has brought in or still has a lot of big names across mutliple venues and no surpise, they're all adults.


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> Here, reddit, and  being affiliated with schools from both.
> 
> Again, when there's twice as many people training in a art, you're going to hear more people complain. It's just numbers
> 
> ...


I respect your perspective. I'm not a TKD guy, so right or wrong, I can only base my opinion on what I hear from people and read. And I hear and read alot about how TKD is a kids game now. I've also noticed all the little kids in their GI's outside the TKD Dojangs I've driven by. Other styles, not so much, and it's definitely not the case with the styles and systems I am, and have been, training in. 
Again, this is another thread among many about this topic. And, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just not my cup of tea.


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## Gnarlie (Mar 8, 2015)

I don't see a problem with kids in TKD as long as they are responsible and responsibly trained. They are the future leaders of our art, and I think to truly physically master Taekwondo as an art and become a physical role model, it helps to start as young as possible. The ethical and philosophical can catch up later. 

I do prefer adult and children's training to be separate, though. When they are together either the adults or the children are not getting appropriate material.


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## wildpsyd (Mar 8, 2015)

I certainly wonder if this issue is more about TKD in the US and how it seems to really market itself to kids.  I've been training in Isshin-ryu for 14 years and we emphasize adult self-defense and sparring. Our adult classes are usually about 20 adults between 22 and 60 years old with usually another 5 students between 16 and 22 years old.  Also about a fifth of the students are between shodan and yondan so not much problem with BB attrition (we even have several godans who train with us sporadically).  We do have kid classes and they seem well attended by kids from 5 - 15 but TKD has always struck me as being more oriented toward kids and usually hardly done by people who are over 30.


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## Drose427 (Mar 8, 2015)

wildpsyd said:


> I certainly wonder if this issue is more about TKD in the US and how it seems to really market itself to kids.  I've been training in Isshin-ryu for 14 years and we emphasize adult self-defense and sparring. Our adult classes are usually about 20 adults between 22 and 60 years old with usually another 5 students between 16 and 22 years old.  Also about a fifth of the students are between shodan and yondan so not much problem with BB attrition (we even have several godans who train with us sporadically).  We do have kid classes and they seem well attended by kids from 5 - 15 but TKD has always struck me as being more oriented toward kids and usually hardly done by people who are over 30.



I've never seen as many "kid oriented" schools as folks say. In about 5 years of TKD now. I know they're out thefe, and I'll see them on occassion, but everyone Ive sparred at tournament is 16-35. I started at 16 and was the only person under 22 In my age group for 3 years. 

In my experience, the folks seeing it as a "kids martial art" either haven't trained or hadomitted exposure i.e. one school.


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> I've never seen as many "kid oriented" schools as folks say. In about 5 years of TKD now. I know they're out thefe, and I'll see them on occassion, but everyone Ive sparred at tournament is 16-35. I started at 16 and was the only person under 22 In my age group for 3 years.
> 
> In my experience, the folks seeing it as a "kids martial art" either haven't trained or hadomitted exposure i.e. one school.


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

I would accept this as truth except for one thing. Alot of the comments are coming from TKD people themselves, as in some of the posts in this thread  for example.


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## Drose427 (Mar 8, 2015)

Tames D said:


> I would accept this as truth except for one thing. Alot of the comments are coming from TKD people themselves, as in some of the posts in this thread  for example.



So...you're more likely to believe folks who have never trained or have only ever seen one school? Who are basing opinions on "well I heard from a friend who saw online"?


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> So...you're more likely to believe folks who have never trained or have only ever seen one school? Who are basing opinions on "well I heard from a friend who saw online"?


Please read my post again, Post #22.


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## Drose427 (Mar 8, 2015)

Tames D said:


> Please read my post again, Post #22.



That was what I was responding to


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## Tames D (Mar 8, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> That was what I was responding to


No, I'm more likely to believe TKD people that have been in their art tor a long time. That's mostly what I'm basing my opinion on. Also on what I have personally seen. But I see this is a sensitive subject for you, so I will back off and agree to disagree. No worries.


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 8, 2015)

I would guess that in the USA, 9 out of 10 taekwondo schools are dominated by kids, i.e. one adult class per day, usually the last class of the day. Likely 70-80% of students are kids. If a dojang has a higher percentage of adults, I would say it is the exception. In Korea the number of kids schools is even higher. I would guess over 95% of commercial schools cater to kids, many kids only.


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## TrueJim (Mar 9, 2015)

Jaeimseu said:


> I would guess that in the USA, 9 out of 10 taekwondo schools are dominated by kids, i.e. one adult class per day, usually the last class of the day. Likely 70-80% of students are kids. If a dojang has a higher percentage of adults, I would say it is the exception. In Korea the number of kids schools is even higher. I would guess over 95% of commercial schools cater to kids, many kids only.



I would say that here in the suburbs of Virginia, I have to agree; that has been my observation as well. I do have one caveat though: it seems to me that in my area at least, taekwondo and karate schools tend to have _very long hours_ as compared to a lot of other martial arts schools. So for example if a person is studying a different martial art in my area (wushu, juijitsu, etc.) there's still often only one _adult_ class per evening at those other schools, and maybe a couple of other youth classes per evening...but then otherwise those schools are often closed during the rest of the day. Literally, if you drive past a taekwondo or karate school in my neighborhood at 4pm it'll be filled with kids, while many of the other martial arts schools haven't even opened their doors for business yet. 

Until recently we had a UFC Gym in the neighborhood that at least offered several adult classes per evening, but not all of those were martial arts classes really (many were simply cardio classes)...and that gym closed recently anyway. I think it's hard to stay in business in this area if you're offering _several_ adult classes per evening, but not augmenting that revenue with kids classes/camps as well.

In my experience at least, it's certainly true that the taekwondo and karate schools in this area tend to have a lot more kids, but the other schools around here _still_ seem to offer only one adult class per evening. I would imagine that's not how it is in more urban areas though.


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## Tez3 (Mar 9, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> Until recently we had a UFC Gym



Do you mean MMA? UFC is a fight promotion business not a martial arts style, sorry to point it out but it's important to those who do MMA that the style is recognised as such.  Most of us have absolutely nothing to do with the UFC.


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## Earl Weiss (Mar 9, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Do you mean MMA? UFC is a fight promotion business not a martial arts style, sorry to point it out but it's important to those who do MMA that the style is recognised as such.  Most of us have absolutely nothing to do with the UFC.




UFC is franchising Gyms.


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## Tez3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Earl Weiss said:


> UFC is franchising Gyms.




Really? Good grief, that's not good really at least for MMA as a whole. They are trying to close up the MMA world to something they own. So they will be doing childcare and kids classes too


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## TrueJim (Mar 9, 2015)

UFC GYM







Our local UFC Gym (the one that recently closed in my neighborhood) actually did offer one child's class per day. If you go to their website (above) their franchises as a whole do offer kid's juijitsu and wrestling classes, but our local franchise didn't offer wrestling. Maybe other locations offer more than one kid's class per day so that they can fit in the wrestling lessons. As far as I know, they don't offer after-school programs at any of the UFC Gyms.

I took one of their kickboxing classes once ("try one for free!") and it was a great cardio workout; the class was mostly just doing combinations though ("kick, punch, elbow! kick, punch, elbow!") _over and over_ again for an hour...exhausting, but *much-much-much* more boring than a taekwondo class. I don't think the problem is UFC though; I think that instructor just didn't have much imagination. UFC Gym also offers adult boxing, juijitsu, wrestling, and general "fitness" classes. 

Our local facility was really nice before it closed. They had a ring, some mats, weight machines, and rows of heavy bags.


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## Tez3 (Mar 9, 2015)

The problem with the UFC gym is going to be that it's a franchise so could be run by anyone with the money to buy the franchise. I doubt the UFC is going to bother with quality control, it's just money in the bank to them. It's the same with any business. In the UK franchising martial arts hasn't got very far, I think that while belonging to organisations and getting things like the insurance from them most of our clubs/schools while they can make money for the instructors tend not to be businesses as such. I don't think we have TKD franchises here, I don't know that we have any for any other style either.
This means I think that they don't have the money making children's classes in the same way as a full time business does, lots of black belts clubs, children's parties etc. From what I've seen of TKD ( I train with a TKD friend at his club sometimes) it seems to be as many if not more adults than children, it's my impression though so don't take it as gospel!
What may stop the business aspect as far as kids are concerned as well is that we have quite strong legislation about who can take children, you have to be screened, have certificates for health and safety, prepare risk assessments etc, can be time consuming. It tends just to be children's classes rather than any pretence to childcare which would have to have inspections of building and such like.


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## Manny (Mar 9, 2015)

Here in the dojangs in my city the adult vs teen/kids ratio ie svery low, I eman almost all the shcedules in the TKD dojangs are filled with kids (teens and children), very few adults over 30 years old for example, and that 's sad, for example in aikido classes in a good dojo I know there are several adults and they told me aikido is best for them because TKD and Karate for example are kidie oriented.

Manny


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## jks9199 (Mar 9, 2015)

It's my observation that Tae Kwon Do (and other Korean arts) as an industry has really latched into the day care model.  Many provide before and after school care, including homework time, other activities, as well as a TKD class.  They provide summer camp programs and other programs during school breaks, even birthday parties.  They also add or encourage family classes, in some cases.   My biggest gripe with this is simple: they're running day care, but often slip by the requirements for an actual day care.  They don't have to keep the caregiver ratios, they don't have to do background checks, they don't have to meet any of the other requirements -- but they're doing day care.  If they meet the day care licensing requirement for what they do -- then it's just business.  

And let's be honest -- it's hard to be successful, or merely keep the doors open, with a pure traditional martial arts program, in a lot of cases.


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## Balrog (Mar 10, 2015)

danielle said:


> I'm 25 and have been training in TKD for 10 years. I'm a second degree black belt and noticed the changes in students I've trained with  over the years. Many leave to new adventures in life . The adult black belt class I attend has mostly teenagers (13-17). I'm feeling awkward because I'm the oldest student in class. Does anyone else have an opinion to add.


I'm the oldest person in class, but I'm usually teaching it.  

Over the years, martial arts training as a whole has seen a shift from almost all young adult males to a mixture of male/female and then to a decrease in age.  I don't know how accurate this is, but I've heard from several sources that m.a. training these days is about 75% under the age of 18.  

And within that demographic, we've seen quite a change as well.  We used to get the athletic kids, the achievers.  We still get them, but over the last 10-15 years, we're getting more underachievers.  Mom and Dad are dragging their little couch potatos away from the video games and putting them in m.a. classes.  It's an extra challenge to us as instructors because now we have to motivate a kid who doesn't want to be in the school in the first place.

And don't get me started on the parents who bring in their kids because they haven't got a clue on how to raise them and they expect the instructors to teach their kids how to be human beings in two classes a week.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 10, 2015)

If you want an adult class simply have it as age 18 and above.  Then you will have adults only!


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 10, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> If you want an adult class simply have it as age 18 and above.  Then you will have adults only!



Depends on how you look at it.
We have a few students who are over 18 who are NOT adults, and some under who are.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 10, 2015)

Agreed DD.

One of the biggest problems though in having an adult class is if you allow juniors regularly into it.  Some adults do not want to train with teens and typically most teens will benefit from training with people their own age as well.  My advice when I hear someone complaining about not having enough adults is have a dedicated class just for them.


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 10, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> If you want an adult class simply have it as age 18 and above.  Then you will have adults only!


That is exactly what we have at one of our dojang. We have four classes per day Monday-Friday, as well as classes on Saturday and Sunday.  We are unusual to say the least.


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## IcemanSK (Mar 10, 2015)

That is exactly what we have at one of our dojang. We have four classes per day Monday-Friday, as well as classes on Saturday and Sunday. We are unusual to say the least.

What time of night are your adult classes, Jaeimseu? I heard of one dojang in Seoul (it may have been GM KANG Shin Chul) where there adult classes don't happen until 8 or 9 pm. Is that the case with your dojang?


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 10, 2015)

IcemanSK said:


> That is exactly what we have at one of our dojang. We have four classes per day Monday-Friday, as well as classes on Saturday and Sunday. We are unusual to say the least.
> 
> What time of night are your adult classes, Jaeimseu? I heard of one dojang in Seoul (it may have been GM KANG Shin Chul) where there adult classes don't happen until 8 or 9 pm. Is that the case with your dojang?


I've been to GM Kang's dojang. It's in Suwon, a bit outside of Seoul. We're located pretty close to Seoul Station. Our classes are at 6:30, 7:30, 8:30, and 9:30. Each class focuses on different things, so lots of people double up.


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## IcemanSK (Mar 11, 2015)

I would think training at 8:30 &/or 9:30 pm would be really hard to do on a regular basis. What is the average age of folks who train at that time of night? Are they college kids with boundless energy who don't have to get up early for work. Maybe I'm just old. 

Thanks Jaeimseu.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Mar 11, 2015)

I was interested in a YMCA club that had adult classes from 9-10 pm.  I thought I'd try it, but found out, after the class, every sat down for a little pep talk, then had to put mats away.  So it was 10:15 pm by the time I was out of there, and with my need for sleep and early work, I had to find a different club.


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## dancingalone (Mar 11, 2015)

IcemanSK said:


> I would think training at 8:30 &/or 9:30 pm would be really hard to do on a regular basis. What is the average age of folks who train at that time of night? Are they college kids with boundless energy who don't have to get up early for work. Maybe I'm just old.
> 
> Thanks Jaeimseu.



I have an advanced adult class from 8-9 PM 2 nights a week.  We usually run over a bit.  Attendance is sparse, perhaps 5 people show up at the most out of a possible pool of 16 or so brown/red belt and up adults.  Yeah, most people with 8-5 job or families to take care of won't find that slot attractive to train in.

I like the low attendance, though I recognize it's not the most profitable activity I could be doing.  I look at it as "paying it forward".  It's a future instructor pool I am teaching in this slot, whether it be at my school or at their own some day.


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## Jaeimseu (Mar 12, 2015)

IcemanSK said:


> I would think training at 8:30 &/or 9:30 pm would be really hard to do on a regular basis. What is the average age of folks who train at that time of night? Are they college kids with boundless energy who don't have to get up early for work. Maybe I'm just old.
> 
> Thanks Jaeimseu.


Everyone is over 19, obviously. I don't know what the average age is. The last class is usually the smallest, but we used to run it from 8:30-10:00 and we commonly had 25-35 students attending. 

In Korea it's not too uncommon to run class at that time, but back in the US  our last class ended by 9:00. Sunday classes and tests also weren't done back in the states, but that's when we do them here.


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