# Knife techniques at what age?



## Lisa (May 6, 2006)

For those practitioners/teachers with younger students, What age do you start teaching the knife techniques that are part of your cirriculum?


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## michaeledward (May 6, 2006)

In our school, they are not part of the childrens curriculum. In our adult curriculum, the knife techniques are requred to test for First Black. Students move from the Childrens Curriculum to the Adult Curriculum at age 13. At this time, they start back at the beginning, with Delayed Sword.

So, at our school, it is quite probable the student would be 17 years old, or older before being introduced to the knife and gun techniques.


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## Blindside (May 6, 2006)

Defense or offense?

Defense, whenever they hit the appropriate kenpo curricullum level, and quite frankly not many kids hit that belt level below 15 or so.

Offense?  Myself and another BB got permission to start a kali study group from our instructor, we slapped a minimum age of 16 on it, under the theory that if the state would license someone to drive a really dangerous vehicle at that age, they were old enough to learn how to use a knife.  

Lamont


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## KenpoTex (May 7, 2006)

In our school we have a couple of basic Krav Maga style knife-defense techniques added to the adult yellow-belt list.  The traditional Kenpo knife and gun techniques appear on our 2nd-Black list.  The minimum age to be eligible for black belt in our school is 16 (I think it's 16, doesn't come up very often).  I teach an all ranks "street" self-defense class that includes some offensive knife work but I set the minimum age to attend the class at 16.  I don't really feel comfortable teaching anyone younger than that how to gouge someone's eyes out or bounce their skull off the pavement, much less how to cut someone's throat.


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## Danny T (May 7, 2006)

We start Everyone from the beginning learning the proper attributes, Ie. movement, body anglization, arm and elbow placements for blade defense.
We don't tell them they are doing blade defense just working the basics. Almost all of the training is based upon defending against a bladed weapon. Why train in one manner for empty hand and totally different for blade? The problem as I see it is there are many ways one can defend against an empty hand effectively. However, against a blade most of those ways will get you hurt badly. Often people are trained to fight and defend themselves in one manner and now have to change years of training because suddenly they are facing a weapon. Why? A punch can be a thrust or slash depending on how the weapon would be held. A hammer fist is a slash or a thrust again depending upon how the weapon would be held. I believe all the attribute training should be the same. Age has nothing to do with "prober" attribute building. With the underage group we will add a pencle to the basic strikes the must defend against. We start blade aweareness as soon as the student shows the maturity we feel one needs to properly utilize the defense methods. At sixteen we start the offensive training of the blade as well as understanding the different mindset of a knife fighter vs a knifer. We keep it simple, economical, and direct. 

There are many things one can get away with against an empty hand but those same ways will get one seriously hurt if applied against a bladed tool and age will not change that.

Danny T


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Defense or offense?
> 
> Defense, whenever they hit the appropriate kenpo curricullum level, and quite frankly not many kids hit that belt level below 15 or so.
> 
> ...




Lamont,

I agree with the distinction between offensive and defensive. 

We also do not take Children in our semi-private non-for-profit club. But when I did teach kids I did not put knife techniques in.

If the parent is in the calls a 14 year old can train as well, but the parent has to know more techniques and have more time and knowledge, to understand what their child will be learning and they as the parent get to decide if their child will search a technique. 

Also as the instructor I have the option of not teaching it as well if I believe someone will not treat it with the proper respect, and that goes for any technique at any time. 

Defensive we teach some basic motions and let them know the limitation of their skill set at about the third or fourth belt level.


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## evenflow1121 (May 7, 2006)

I ve seen some 16 yr olds start on techniques, but they were very capable and mature and understood what they were doing.


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## Lisa (May 7, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Also as the instructor I have the option of not teaching it as well if I believe someone will not treat it with the proper respect, and that goes for any technique at any time.



I think that is a very important point.  The maturity of the individual is paramount regarldless of belt ranking or age.  I know many "adults" that teaching potentially dangerous techniques to would be in bad form, imo.  It is all dependent on the individual's ability to assess and understand the potential severity of what they are being taught.


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## Cruentus (May 7, 2006)

Children have an understanding of consequence of physical action and illness at age 5. So, you can (and should if you have such things in your home) start them on gun and knife _SAFETY_ at that age. Learning gun and knife safety is positive for kids because it prevents accidents, and gives them an understanding of the dangers misuse of guns and knives. It also may help get rid of any curiosity behind them, so you don't have to worry about your kid being curious if he came across a sharp thing like a knife or (good forbid) an unattended firearm. The kid who knows basic knife and gun safety is most likely not going to be the kid to pick up an unsupervised knife and play around with it and cut themselves or someone.

Now as far as techniques and tactics go: 

There are differing opinions on how Children assimilate an understanding of violence specifically. That said, with consent of a parent who can gauge how mature the child is, I think they can start at age 12. Most 12 year olds, when put in the right context, can handle and understand the realities of violence without it hurting them developmentally. This is of course assuming that the knife program is not built on sensationalizing violence, but rather is focused on reality, safety, and self-defense. 

Now this is when you COULD start. For business, liability, or personal reasons, one may wait longer.

Paul


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2006)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Children have an understanding of consequence of physical action and illness at age 5. So, you can (and should if you have such things in your home) start them on gun and knife _SAFETY_ at that age. Learning gun and knife safety is positive for kids because it prevents accidents, and gives them an understanding of the dangers misuse of guns and knives. It also may help get rid of any curiosity behind them, so you don't have to worry about your kid being curious if he came across a sharp thing like a knife or (good forbid) an unattended firearm. The kid who knows basic knife and gun safety is most likely not going to be the kid to pick up an unsupervised knife and play around with it and cut themselves or someone.
> 
> Now as far as techniques and tactics go:
> 
> ...



Paul,

I agree with the safety and awareness. The more you see an item and the more you understand an item the less likely one wil use said item in a childish manner. Yet safety is something that should be considered.


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## Dwight McLemore (May 8, 2006)

I have to admit that I took the coward's way out as far as teaching children. Yep!  Could have made more money in the early days, but one thing made an impression on me.  The Karate school across the street from me in Poquoson was open till almost 10:00 p.m. Why ?  Waiting for the parents to come pick up thier kids. I was working a full time job with a 6:00 am call so I liked to get to bed earlier than that.  I taught teen-agers starting at 14 years but only after an interview with thier parents.  If I could swing it, I liked to get the parents in the same class as the teen. So for me I think 14 years is a good time to start thinking about knife use, but only , ONLY under some very close supervision and a really close look at the maturity level of the young person. For some strange reason most of my teenage students were girls.  They stuck with it till they went off to college.  I still have one who trains part time that is now well over 19 and she is wise beyound her years. 

Best
Dwight


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## thescottishdude (May 8, 2006)

Depends on the culture. In america kids are exposed to guns at an early age, so knives being less deadly than guns should be okay providing they're taught dicipline first. In the Uk though, firearms are illegal and knife crime is our most violent cause of death so ti should be left out completely. even carrying a kinfe in the UK will result in swift imprisionment ofr 5 years...


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## Cruentus (May 8, 2006)

Dwight McLemore said:
			
		

> I have to admit that I took the coward's way out as far as teaching children. Yep! Could have made more money in the early days, but one thing made an impression on me. The Karate school across the street from me in Poquoson was open till almost 10:00 p.m. Why ? Waiting for the parents to come pick up thier kids. I was working a full time job with a 6:00 am call so I liked to get to bed earlier than that. I taught teen-agers starting at 14 years but only after an interview with thier parents. If I could swing it, I liked to get the parents in the same class as the teen. So for me I think 14 years is a good time to start thinking about knife use, but only , ONLY under some very close supervision and a really close look at the maturity level of the young person. For some strange reason most of my teenage students were girls. They stuck with it till they went off to college. I still have one who trains part time that is now well over 19 and she is wise beyound her years.
> 
> Best
> Dwight


 
I generally don't teach children either because of lack of time and because of the current focus of our programs, so I can relate. Currently, the most I do is help out with the "Kids Empowered" workshops put on by LiveSafeAcademy on occasion.

I have taught kids before, more so when I was much younger and in my teens. I loved it. Kids are awesome. Kids and dogs are the two target groups that I could never get seriously angry at.

That said, in order to teach kids one has to have programs directly targeted towards childhood development. Teaching kids and teaching adults are two totally different ball games, IMHO.

Paul


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