# Qinna



## taitsechien (Mar 4, 2008)

i found a cool qinna video 



i think... i don't really know much about qinna... but i thought it looked pretty good... and practical for the most part... where can i get some good info on qinna... if not from here


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 4, 2008)

ahhh Qinna :EG:

I have seen this before and it is pretty well done. Thanks for posting this


----------



## Steel Tiger (Mar 4, 2008)

That was nice.  Some very good entry work in particular.  The big caption said basic qinna, but some of that wasn't that basic.

If you're looking out for information a good place to start is Yang Jwing Ming's various works.  You should be able to find some video footage of the good Dr as well.


----------



## ggg214 (Mar 7, 2008)

it's useful in fighting!


----------



## Sunrise (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes, it is really nicely done!
We do a lot of qinna ourselfs at my school, and although it is hard to get a good grip if someone comes fast and furious at you, or if he is wet and slippery, it is a definite "end fight" skill if you get hold of your opponent. Regarding his will to "cooperate" with the pain chinna inflicts, you can either put him down and secure him, like in the video, or simply break and rip his joints and limbs, thus reducing his ability to get back at you, greatly.
Especially people under the influence of drugs and alcohol have a greatly reduced sense of pain, and tend to simply rip their joint to get to you. The hurt will come later, not right away, so be carefull with them. Against those people, unballancing and disorientating techniques work best - a clean knockout put aside.

Best,
Sascha


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 7, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> it's useful in fighting!


 
I have practiced Qinna with a few people and it can be very effective when used properly. But since you are a Taiji person you might appreciate this. 

I can generally feel whenever any one is going to use or try to use Qinna. Sometimes I can counter, sometimes I cannot. However my taiji teacher also uses Qinna and I can never feel when he is going to use Qinna. Basically I am all of a sudden locked. I have asked him why this is and it all comes down to taiji in application, trust in your ability and patients. His response has always been "You lock yourself" What that means is he just redirects; absorbs and waits until I am in the right position and then with very little effort he locks me.

This is very different from my Sanda Sifu who was also very good with Qinna. I can feel it coming but generally I can not stop it, he used a lot of power, because he had it to use, but I still felt it coming and to be honest, even though his skill with Qinna is far beyond mine I still feel it is far lower than the skill of my taiji teacher. Of course my taiji teacher has been doing this for over 50 years as apposed to my Xingyi teacher who has been doing this for about 30 so he has 20 years on him so that could make a difference as well.

Sanda (police/police military) is basically a combination of Kicking/Punching, Qinna and Shuaijiao so it tends to be MUCH more external than Taiji


----------



## ggg214 (Mar 7, 2008)

i think you are right, Xue Sheng!
it's easy to learn and to use.
taiji is more essential than qinna.most qinna techniques is aimed to lock parts of body, but taiji is aimed to lock the whole body. there is a taiji idiom:&#23432;&#20013;&#29992;&#20013;(which means defending your mid of body, knocking your opponent's mid of body ).it's different.
how do you think?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> i think you are right, Xue Sheng!
> it's easy to learn and to use.
> taiji is more essential than qinna.most qinna techniques is aimed to lock parts of body, but taiji is aimed to lock the whole body. there is a taiji idiom:&#23432;&#20013;&#29992;&#20013;(which means defending your mid of body, knocking your opponent's mid of body ).it's different.
> how do you think?


 
Well I do not think Qinna is easy to learn and I do not think taiji is easy to learn either but a combination of them at high levels is pretty impressive. But a high level of either is impressive as well

As to the idiom basically I believe it translates to us here in the US as "protect (or hide) your center and attack your opponents center. And that is pretty much part of all internal styles I have trained and to be honest I think it is part of all CMA styles, but that is only an opinion since I have not trained that many CMA styles.


----------



## kidswarrior (Mar 8, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> As to the idiom basically I believe it translates to us here in the US as "protect (or hide) your center and attack your opponents center. And that is pretty much part of all internal styles I have trained and to be honest I think it is part of all CMA styles, but that is only an opinion since I have not trained that many CMA styles.


I've only trained one, San Soo, which is very much external, but this idiom is central to that art. I've heard it taught as _Take away his center (and/or) Take away his balance_ (not always the same thing, but perhaps close enough to be useful).


----------



## ggg214 (Mar 8, 2008)

this is really useful in application.
in recent push-hands training, my master always tell me how to do under that principle.when i do right, it's easy to avoid to be pushed away, and to push my partner away.


----------



## ggg214 (Mar 8, 2008)

to kidswarrior
San Soo,what is it?
a independent school?
in my opinion, it's just an application!


----------



## SenseiBear (Mar 9, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> to kidswarrior
> San Soo,what is it?
> a independent school?


 
I assume he meant Kung Fu San Soo - Jimmy Woo's style of Kung Fu - A more modern art that is very self defense oriented...  One that I really enjoyed, though I only trained in it for about 6 months.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> to kidswarrior
> San Soo,what is it?
> a independent school?
> in my opinion, it's just an application!


 
Kung Fu San Soo


----------



## kidswarrior (Mar 9, 2008)

SenseiBear said:


> I assume he meant Kung Fu San Soo - Jimmy Woo's style of Kung Fu - A more modern art that is very self defense oriented...  One that I really enjoyed, though I only trained in it for about 6 months.


Yes, exactly right *SB*. Thanks for answering this.



			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Kung Fu San Soo


Thanks *XS*, I hadn't seen this particular description before. Very cogent and accurate.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Mar 10, 2008)

Qinna has some basic tenets of its own that are pretty handy.  These tenets are closely associated with the five categories of qinna:

Fen/Zhua Jin  (Dividing/Grabbing the Muscle/Tendon)
Cuo Gu  (Misplacing the Bone)
Bi Qi  (Sealing the Breath)
Dian/Duan Mai  (Vein/artery Press or Sealing the Vein/Artery)
Dian Xue  (Meridian Press or Cavity Press)

*What you do depends on what your opponent does.*  He is not just going to stand there and let you grab and injure him.
*You must adapt your qinna to fit your circumstances.*
*Qinna must be done by surprise.*  If your opponent becomes aware of your desire to grab them you might change to a cavity press attack instead, for instance.  I guess this is why there are so many qinna techniques.
*Qinna may make use of several of the above categories at the same time.*  such as techniques using both dividing the muscle and misplacing the bone.

In my own practice I have noticed that qinna techniques tend to both unbalance an opponent and constrict their ability to attack - crossing up limbs, creating unusual and uncomfortable body positions, that sought of thing.  It is about destroying his root, take that away and its going to be a very bad day.


----------

