# Cracking Skull With Punch



## DanT (Mar 1, 2017)

If someone who trains seriously in iron fist and has an extremely strong punch (Mike Tyson level), punches someone in the head cleanly could they crack the persons skull? And don't give me any of that nonsense of "oh they'll just break their hand." People can punch people in the head if they condition their fist. My question is specifically if the skull could be cracked by a punch?


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## Flying Crane (Mar 1, 2017)

DanT said:


> If someone who trains seriously in iron fist and has an extremely strong punch (Mike Tyson level), punches someone in the head cleanly could they crack the persons skull? And don't give me any of that nonsense of "oh they'll just break their hand." People can punch people in the head if they condition their fist. My question is specifically if the skull could be cracked by a punch?


Sure. But, it depends on a lot of things.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 1, 2017)

DanT said:


> If someone who trains seriously in iron fist and has an extremely strong punch (Mike Tyson level), punches someone in the head cleanly could they crack the persons skull? And don't give me any of that nonsense of "oh they'll just break their hand." People can punch people in the head if they condition their fist. My question is specifically if the skull could be cracked by a punch?



Sounds like you already have an answer in mind.


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## JR 137 (Mar 1, 2017)

Working as an athletic trainer (sports medicine), I saw skull fractures from elbows, kicks, and head to head collisions.  They were all unintentional.  So I guess why not?

A caveat - those were all facial fractures.  The face is part of the skull after all.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 1, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Working as an athletic trainer (sports medicine), I saw skull fractures from elbows, kicks, and head to head collisions.  They were all unintentional.  So I guess why not?
> 
> A caveat - those were all facial fractures.  The face is part of the skull after all.


 Eyebrow ridge is often broken. I think he's talking brain bucket though.


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## ShortBridge (Mar 1, 2017)

Only way to be sure, I suppose, is to fly to Vegas and ask Mike Tyson to punch you in the skull.

Please report back!


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## CB Jones (Mar 1, 2017)

Sure.

But a lot of it will be dependent on the body position and how much the head/neck and upper body can "give" to absorb or lessen the blow.


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## mograph (Mar 1, 2017)

ShortBridge said:


> Only way to be sure, I suppose, is to fly to Vegas and ask Mike Tyson to punch you in the skull.
> 
> Please report back!


... and can you get me some gray M&Ms from the M&M store? Thanks!


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 1, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Sounds like you already have an answer in mind.


I was going to give him some drivel about not hitting people in the head that hard.


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## JR 137 (Mar 1, 2017)

I've only seen the maxilla bones and zygomatic bones fractured.

I know he was talking cranial bones and not facial, but I had to throw those in there.

Edit: I remember seeing an American soccer player get a skull fracture from an elbow by a Brazilian player in the '94 World Cup.  I think it was the temporal bone.  The commentators thought he was playing it up to get the guy thrown out, then they said toward the end of the game that he in fact fractured his skull.  Didn't look like too bad of a hit in real time.  It was more of a thing like the right amount of force at the right angle.


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## DanT (Mar 1, 2017)

ShortBridge said:


> Only way to be sure, I suppose, is to fly to Vegas and ask Mike Tyson to punch you in the skull.
> 
> Please report back!


Ha ha Actually I was looking for test subjects, message me if interested.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 1, 2017)

Given the shape of the skull, I would guess any break caused by a punch is only likely to happen if there's a weak point (thus the facial bones are more likely). It's not impossible, but I don't think a punch to the cranial bone is likely to be a predictable break.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 1, 2017)

If you're talking strictly about the portion of the skull enclosing the brain, I'd say that while it's possible, it is _*extremely*_ unlikely, unless the head is against the ground or something else that prevents it from moving away from the punch. 
Facial fractures are common, especially the zygomatic arch (think cheek bone...). And zygomatic arch fractures will occasionally extend down into the base of the skull. Basilar skull fractures rarely require another more than observation and antibiotics. Maxillary fractures are less common, and also less likely to extend into the base of the skull.
Mandible fractures are not uncommon, but that's clearly not part of what most people mean by 'the skull.'


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 2, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> If you're talking strictly about the portion of the skull enclosing the brain, I'd say that while it's possible, it is _*extremely*_ unlikely, unless the head is against the ground or something else that prevents it from moving away from the punch.
> Facial fractures are common, especially the zygomatic arch (think cheek bone...). And zygomatic arch fractures will occasionally extend down into the base of the skull. Basilar skull fractures rarely require another more than observation and antibiotics. Maxillary fractures are less common, and also less likely to extend into the base of the skull.
> Mandible fractures are not uncommon, but that's clearly not part of what most people mean by 'the skull.'


Any fool can bounce some one's head off a curb. Teach us the secret stuff.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Any fool can bounce some one's head off a curb. Teach us the secret stuff.



But then I'd have to kill you...


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 2, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> But then I'd have to kill you...


Ok...Never mind, then.


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## KangTsai (Mar 2, 2017)

If you're talking anywhere on the face bones, H*CK yes. But the cranial bone, with a punch? Nope. The MVP vs. Cyborg injury comes to mind - but that was a flying knee against an advancing face at a hihg speed timed just rihgt.


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## JowGaWolf (Mar 2, 2017)

I'm surprised no one has looked this up on google yet to see if there are cases of this happening before.


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## punisher73 (Mar 2, 2017)

As with most things....it depends.

The skull has weak points where the plates have grown together.  In fact, in the bubishi one of the "dim mak" targets is the coronal suture.  Although due to it's location would be harder to punch unless the person is bent forward quite a ways.  There are also areas where the skull is thicker and thinner and is more susceptible to fracture in those areas.

Imaging in Skull Fractures: Overview, Radiography, Computed Tomography  (more than you ever wanted to know about skull fractures)

Isshin - Concentration the Art: Bubishi A Close Look Redoux Part 11 (quick blog look at the points listed in the bubishi for reference)

Here is a discussion on how much force is required to fracture the skull
How much force does it take to break a human skull?

Here is a discussion on how much force is required to crack a coconut
How much force is required to break a coconut

Human Skull=1100 lbs Coconut=1400 lbs  So, seeing legitimate coconut breaks, theoretically you could train the hand to crack a skull

That being said, the head is very mobile and still very hard.  While it COULD be done, it would more than likely be a rare occurrence.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Ok...Never mind, then.


No, go ahead and tell him, DD. That way you're not telling me, but I get to hear. I'm sure ToD won't mind taking one for the team.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 2, 2017)

punisher73 said:


> Here is a discussion on how much force is required to fracture the skull
> How much force does it take to break a human skull?
> 
> Here is a discussion on how much force is required to crack a coconut
> ...



The human skull varies widely in thickness, shape, etc, depending on the exact portion of the skull under discussion. Coconuts are relatively symmetrical and roughly the same thickness (except for the "eye"). While the figure of 1100 lbs of force may be true in some areas, it will be waaayyyy off in others.


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## punisher73 (Mar 2, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> The human skull varies widely in thickness, shape, etc, depending on the exact portion of the skull under discussion. Coconuts are relatively symmetrical and roughly the same thickness (except for the "eye"). While the figure of 1100 lbs of force may be true in some areas, it will be waaayyyy off in others.



I pointed this out in my post and spoke in "theoretical terms" based on force/hardness.  One of the thinner spots of the skull is only about 1.5mm thick.  

I still think it would be possible to get enough force to crack the hardness of the skull, BUT I also think it would be highly unlikely due to the factors you reiterated from my previous post.


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## Headhunter (Mar 2, 2017)

Anyone can kill someone with one punch so of course they can crack a skull with one


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## Transk53 (Mar 4, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Anyone can kill someone with one punch so of course they can crack a skull with one



Not going to happen. One punch is a myth in itself. You would have to rely on the environment. IE you see a wall, or a kerbstone etc. One punch theory works, but you ain't going to crack a skull. Just lovely stupid to believe that.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 4, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Anyone can kill someone with one punch so of course they can crack a skull with one


Actually, most people will break their hand.


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## Transk53 (Mar 4, 2017)

Oh I am sorry Headhunter. Guess being unrealistic and pointing out folly is wrong?


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## Headhunter (Mar 4, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Oh I am sorry Headhunter. Guess being unrealistic and pointing out folly is wrong?


Apology accepted


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## Transk53 (Mar 4, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Apology accepted



Actually I was being sarcastic. But fine, whatever you are inclined to believe. Seriously though, apply the post content about cracking a skull. A head shot of that nature is always visible. You aint gonna crack a skull with one punch. Don't have a clue why you woukd think that. So maybe chill out a bit. I am actually genuinely curious?


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## Headhunter (Mar 4, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Actually I was being sarcastic. But fine, whatever you are inclined to believe. Seriously though, apply the post content about cracking a skull. A head shot of that nature is always visible. You aint gonna crack a skull with one punch. Don't have a clue why you woukd think that. So maybe chill out a bit. I am actually genuinely curious?


Chill out? Lol you're the one getting upset because I pressed dislike


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## Transk53 (Mar 4, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Chill out? Lol you're the one getting upset because I pressed dislike



Nope. Just curious. Maybe stop evading the question? Just a helpful hint and all.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 4, 2017)

Maybe you could return to the topic and stop sniping at each other before the staff is forced to officially step in?


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 4, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Not going to happen. One punch is a myth in itself. You would have to rely on the environment. IE you see a wall, or a kerbstone etc. One punch theory works, but you ain't going to crack a skull. Just lovely stupid to believe that.



While I agree completely that causing a skull fracture with a single punch against an unsupported head is extremely unlikely, it's not impossible, so it's not a myth.
And there are certainly a number of one shot attacks which can disable or kill an opponent. Again, they're not necessarily high percentage shots, but they're possible.


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## Transk53 (Mar 4, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> While I agree completely that causing a skull fracture with a single punch against an unsupported head is extremely unlikely, it's not impossible, so it's not a myth.
> And there are certainly a number of one shot attacks which can disable or kill an opponent. Again, they're not necessarily high percentage shots, but they're possible.



Point taken. Yes, still a myth though.


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## DaleDugas (Mar 9, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Anyone can kill someone with one punch so of course they can crack a skull with one



Really?

Delusion, not reality.  If it were easy you would be seeing many people dead.

We do not.  Hence its fantasy handed down by mental midgets.


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## Headhunter (Mar 10, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Really?
> 
> Delusion, not reality.  If it were easy you would be seeing many people dead.
> 
> We do not.  Hence its fantasy handed down by mental midgets.


Oh really

One Killer Punch proves too "deep" for viewers who say programme is shocking

Man who killed banker with one punch cleared of murder

Man jailed for six years for killing banker with one punch

Man killed best friend with 'one punch' in 'silly' row - BBC News

Oh dear looks like you do find that it happens. Looks like those "mental midgets" are right


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 10, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Oh really
> 
> One Killer Punch proves too "deep" for viewers who say programme is shocking
> 
> ...


Three articles, two incidents. In one, it clearly states the victim hit his head when he fell, so the punch didn't kill him. The other doesn't contain any information about the actual immediate cause.

It is extraordinarily rare for someone to die from a single punch. Falling and hitting their head is a bit more likely, and still not terribly common. Your original comment seemed to refer to an actual one-hit kill - the sort of thing advertised by some arts - and that is bunk.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 10, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Three articles, two incidents. In one, it clearly states the victim hit his head when he fell, so the punch didn't kill him. The other doesn't contain any information about the actual immediate cause.
> 
> It is extraordinarily rare for someone to die from a single punch. Falling and hitting their head is a bit more likely, and still not terribly common. Your original comment seemed to refer to an actual one-hit kill - the sort of thing advertised by some arts - and that is bunk.


Yep. The overwhelming majority of one-punch kills are from the victims falling and hitting their head on something hard (like a curb).


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 10, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Oh really
> 
> One Killer Punch proves too "deep" for viewers who say programme is shocking
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone has said it NEVER happens. Just that it's ridiculously unlikely. The vast majority of deaths occurring from single strikes are not the result of the strike, but of the persons head hitting something like pavement or a curb when they fall. I'd say that accounts for better than 99%. 
I cannot recall ever seeing a single strike fatality that wouldn't fall into that category in 35+ years in the ER. Not one. Dramatic clickbait headlines of questionable accuracy not withstanding, of course.


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## JP3 (Mar 10, 2017)

DanT said:


> If someone who trains seriously in iron fist and has an extremely strong punch (Mike Tyson level), punches someone in the head cleanly could they crack the persons skull? And don't give me any of that nonsense of "oh they'll just break their hand." People can punch people in the head if they condition their fist. My question is specifically if the skull could be cracked by a punch?



Certainly, but what is probably going to happen is not the actual fracture of one of the large skull bones, it's the separation of a fusing line, or one of the smaller, more fragile bones, such as those of the face, temple, etc.  Temporal bone, zygomatic arch, eye orbits, like that.  Don't need to be Iron Mike, either, nor have Iron Palm/Fist training, just know how to strike hard, or get lucky.

Elbows and knees, if the person couldn't move away, too.

Problem is physics. If the person is standing, the amount of force needed to break something like that is more than is required to send them flying back, so what typically happens, by design by the way, is the person falls away and down. But, being down, is when curb stomps take place, and those Definitely can crack the skull, about anywhere.


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