# hwarang-do



## Hanzo04 (Jun 23, 2004)

are there any people in this forum who practice this art if so. can you tell me what are the diff. between hwarang-do, hapkido, and TKD. i'm just curious to see the responses. i wanna know what makes it unique compared to these other arts. express yourself!


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## shesulsa (Jun 24, 2004)

I think if you do a little reading in the Korean Martial Arts Forum, you will find out some things already, especially about the Hapkido connection with the Lee Brothers as well as some other enlightening things.


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 24, 2004)

Hwa Rang Do is quite controversial because the founders, the Lee Brothers, claimed histories and credentials that turned out to be very doubtful. They claimed originally that their HRD is a direct descendant of the Hwa Rang warriors of 1500 years ago. Turned out not to be the case. They also make claims of being students of Korean monks who taught them indigenous Korean arts, claims that turned out to be highly doubtful.


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## Bob D. (Jun 24, 2004)

Actually, it is mostly Joo Bang Lee that pushes the mythology. When Lee, Joo Sang, the older brother first came to teach in the US he tought very practical fighting skills based on Choi, Yong Sool Hapkido and very unique kicking from where I'm not sure. The forms, numbered sets of joint lock/self defence techniques and Hwarang story were added years later when Joo Bang arrived (although earlier in Korea) in US.
 Don't be fooled by the current state of WHRD and what they teach. Joo Bang Lee was an amazing martial artist. Many Koreans from the 60's era, when in the same room with him, will tell you JBL was one of the most gifted and proficient martial artists of the time. Unfortunatly his arrogance and ego kept him from becoming the great leader he thinks he is.
 Make no mistake though, his martial ability and knowledge were way beyond the best I have seen or worked with in 30 years around this country. His finess and power obviously beyond Suh In-Yuk, Jae Ji-han and the others from that era. 
 Just see Master Gil Kim, formerly the top protege of Joo Bang, and observe how fantastic and powerful his technique is. KJN Kim is amazing to watch....one of the top all around martial artists I've seen. From those who have worked closly with both Joo Bang and KJN Kim, they say Joo Bang was obviously better even to the untrained eye.
 As for a comparison to Hapkido, while there are many similarities, there are far more differences. The main similarities are in the joint locks. But they are different in many ways and HRD has many, many more variations (to fault).
The only similarity to TKD is both arts have kicks but thats about as far as it goes....completely different style of kicking.
Bob Donnelly


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## shesulsa (Jun 24, 2004)

Hwarang, Mr. Donnelly.  Always good to read your posts.

 Hanzo04, the thing about HRD that makes its study difficult is that to study under a WHRDA dojang, you must buy into a contract and first begin studying something called Tae Soo Do, which is a basics system which does not include joint manipulations (at least, that's what one WHRDA 2nd dan told me), and then after you earn your BB in Tae Soo Do, you may or may not go on to study Hwarang Do starting at Yellow Belt level where the joint manipulations start in prevalance.  The ranks progress as follows:  white, orange, yellow, green, purple, blue, brown, red, half-black, and black.  White and Orange ranks primarily work on one-step sparring or three-step sparring (defense against a punch, and a kick-punch combination).  Some schools will make an exception if you already have MA experience, especially in a Korean style, and if you show that you could grasp the whole joint-manipulation concept.

 Now because of some political and personal problems that Lee, Joo Bang had with himself, others, etcetera, (Mr. Donnelly could probably tell you more about this than I), he demoted a number of ranks by one degree, then ultimately revoked their ranks.  Some of these people had been studying with him for many years, some lived at his dojang for long periods.  

 Lee, Joo Bang did something no one else did before - he trademarked the name Hwa Rang Do, the name Tae Soo Do, and the logos for the arts.  This way, his "renegades" would never be able to advertise or put in print that the style they teach is HRD.  However, those who continue to teach, teach HRD the way they were taught - they do not teach HRD as a graduate program, it is taught from white belt.  Some have taken flashy, repetitive techniques out, reduced the number count of "official" techniques, but teach how to approach the same technique from different angles as supplemental instruction.

 Thus, if one desired to find a quality, non-WHRDA school that teaches HRD, you would never find the listing or the ad in the phone book or the classifieds.  Nevertheless, these "expelled students" of HRD have taken an incredible system to the next level.

 Some would say, when a master revokes a black belt rank, then this person must not be a worthy teacher/person...they can't be worthy of learning from.

 Others would say, why not agree to disagree, give a pat on the back, wish them luck and send them on their way?

 I suppose it's all in your own interpretation of events and what you decide to believe.  No one will ever know exactly what happened except the people whom things involved, and I am not one of those people.  But I do receive the benefit of having an exceptional man for a teacher and I wouldn't devote myself to anything else...and no, I'm not in the WHRDA.

 HWARANG!!


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 24, 2004)

Tae Soo Do was the original name for Tae Kwon Do before it changed over. It has nothing to do with Hwa Rang Do other than the fact that Joo Bang Lee basically ripped it off for his own use.
IMHO, Hwa Rang Do is essentially a combination of jujitsu/aikijitsu and Tae Kwon Do, not very different from Hapkido, or Kuk Sool.


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## Bob D. (Jun 24, 2004)

MichiganTKD, Thanks for your opinion. Tae soo do was a recent addition (about 1995) to WHRDA that I know nothing about, nor do I care. It really has nothing to do with the HRD taught between 1961 and that date. You are somewhat accurate about the Akijujitsu influance but not the TKD. HRD kicking developed simultaneously to TDK in the mid 50's and is stylistically and formally different. Both of thier predessors for Korean kicking would be Taequen (sp). The differences between HRD and KSW or Hapkido would be very appearant if you where to train under a compatent HRD instructor.

 Hello SHESULSA, Do I know you?


Regards, Bob Donnelly


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## shesulsa (Jun 24, 2004)

Bob D. said:
			
		

> The differences between HRD and KSW or Hapkido would be very appearant if you where to train under a compatent HRD instructor.


 Most definately.  This is certainly an art that must be delved into to appreciate rather than toss off casually as just another KMA - believe me, it's not.



			
				Bob D. said:
			
		

> Hello SHESULSA, Do I know you?


 Not sure, Sir.  I have heard much about you, but unless I'm mistaken, did you not teach archery at 1999 Sulsa Camp?


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## Bob D. (Jun 24, 2004)

Shesulsa, Yes I've been teaching Dong Bong, knife and archery for most of the camps since '96. Were you there? Your name would help.      Bob


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## shesulsa (Jun 26, 2004)

I'll private message you, if that's all right, Mr. Donnelly (forgive me, I don't know your rank - I think you were KSN at the time I attended camp).


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## HRD MA (Jul 14, 2004)

Good morning Hanzo.  Yes, I've been practicing HRD for two years (short time I know) with KJN Tim Elliot.  KJN has been teaching here in the valley full time for 22 years.  He has been at his last location for 17 years with a great student following.  We just opened a north academy and it is also doing very well.  KJN Elliot is great instructor.  I believe between the two academy's he teachs 22 classes a week (private instruction is also in there).


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