# Bunkai Pinan Nidan / PyungAhn Edan, Spear Hand



## boobishi (Feb 26, 2009)

In class today I let 6 students strike my solar plexus with spear hand strikes. Not a dent. I have no doubt that there are people that could drop me with one. I then explained that just because a spear hand is targeted to the solar plexus in a form, does not mean that is the only use for it. When you are striking at a certain level you can imagine what target could be available if the opponant's body changes position.

Here is a video example from the class tonight ...

www.oldmansboobishi.com

Mark


----------



## arnisador (Feb 26, 2009)

I never figured that technique out. It was explained to me as splitting between the stomach muscles so it penetrated easily...I can't see it. I've heard the legend of Koreans cutting off their fingers so they could spearhand through wooden shields...I don't buy it. What a rsiky technqieu, for what benefit? There must be another explanation. Someone once showed me an interpretation of it as an arm lock but it seemed a stretch to me.


----------



## dancingalone (Feb 26, 2009)

For the spearhand technique to be effective, one must condition one's hand and fingers first to be able to stand up to contact.  Fingertip pushups, rice/sand/pebble bucket practice, etc.

Us modern day warriors would be better off using another technique.


----------



## Makalakumu (Feb 27, 2009)

Nagamine Sensei shares an anecdote where he says that the "spearhand" was taught to the Japanese as a technique to be thrust to the middle.  The original kata focused the spearhand on the eyes.

When the spearhand is directed to the solar plexus, I see it as more of a passing technique that sinks in an underhook for a throw.  It's not a strike that I would practice and I think that even people "back in the day" would know better then that.


----------



## RoninSoul (Feb 27, 2009)

Very nice demonstrations!  I saw a clip of a TKD Master breaking boards with a spearhand thrust. I guess if one learns to focus there KI they could take you out with a pinky finger.


----------



## boobishi (Feb 27, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Nagamine Sensei shares an anecdote where he says that the "spearhand" was taught to the Japanese as a technique to be thrust to the middle.  The original kata focused the spearhand on the eyes.
> 
> When the spearhand is directed to the solar plexus, I see it as more of a passing technique that sinks in an underhook for a throw.  It's not a strike that I would practice and I think that even people "back in the day" would know better then that.



Very good points both from a historical perpsective and practical one. One of the things I wanted to get across to the students that night was that if you change the persons posture you change the target. So in the video on the first two techniques I respond with "meh". On the third attacking the throat , well, that one HOITS. The passing spearhand can work as and underhook or your it can move to the side of you opponants neck as your left hand secures kotoe gaieshi on his right hand. The next movement in the form, turning into the double knifehand block can become a throw.

As far as back in the day, there were dense folks back then as well and many today are still teaching it as only an attack to the torso. As I gestured in the video "meh".


----------



## astrobiologist (Feb 27, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Nagamine Sensei shares an anecdote where he says that the "spearhand" was taught to the Japanese as a technique to be thrust to the middle. The original kata focused the spearhand on the eyes.
> 
> When the spearhand is directed to the solar plexus, I see it as more of a passing technique that sinks in an underhook for a throw. It's not a strike that I would practice and I think that even people "back in the day" would know better then that.


 
Agreed.  I would never attempt to "spear-hand" someone in the solar plexus in a fight.  That would be dumb.  The "spear-hand" works well though when directed into the neck, the eyes, or the crease of the shoulder (just above the arm-pit in the front).  Those are nice applications of the type that i refer to as "from the outside looking in"; meaning, what a non-martial arts practitioner would think if they saw this technique.  A spear hand from kata/hyung appears to be an open hand finger strike to the solar plexus to someone who has never trained before.  And it could be an open hand finger strike, just not to that target.  Okay.  

The application that I prefer, though, is the underhook mentioned by Maunakumu.  If you consider the form Pinan Nidan, that technique is followed by a 270 degree turn into a knife-hand center.  I would never have a reason to turn 270 degrees to face a new opponent.  Not when turning 90 degrees is faster and would not require me turning through my blind spot.  Indeed, 270 degree turns represent one thing to me: a throw or a grappling maneuver of some sort.  Consider body-drops and hip-throws, they almost always require a turning maneuver of this kind.  

So, to me, a good application for the "spear-hand" in Pinan Nidan is this:  Following the arm-trapping and neck-striking movement of a knife hand technique, I step into the opponent and control their right arm with my left hand while my right arm snakes up and under their left arm, this is the set up for a hip throw, after which my arms are basically in the position of the knife hand technique.  I also like using a neck throw here as well.

Regardless of how much you train you finger tips or try to focus your energy, striking into the solar plexus with the fingers just doesn't make much sense.  Not that it can't be done, just that it would not be optimal, and when it comes to fighting for my life, I'll take what works best any day.


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 27, 2009)

You're probably in a physical condition that's superior to the average human being.  Most people's abs aren't going to be nearly as strong, nor would they be expecting such an attack.  

Still, if someone were to regularly use nukite to the solar plexus, I'd strongly recommend some form of conditioning, to strengthen the fingers.  Otherwise, their fingers will simply buckle, even if hitting softer targets (throat, groin, etc).  




On another note, I noticed that your school teaches Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do.  I've been out of the system since 1993, and a lot has probably happened since then.  However, I am curious to know when they had added the Pyung Ahn series, or is it a different strain?  Or was my schol the departure from the norm?  

Back when I trained in it, we studied the Tae Guk series first, then the Pal Gae series next, along with Dal Hyung, then learning the more advanced yudanja forms (Koryo, etc).


----------



## boobishi (Feb 27, 2009)

Our group was under the direction of Yong Taek Chung. He passed away in the last few years. Cung was the &th CDK black belt onder Won kuk Lee. Chung spent the 50s and 60s living in Japan. When he came to the U.S he ended up in kansas City. He taught...

Tae Kuk 1-3
Kuk Mu 1-5
Pinan/ Pyung Ahn1-5
Chulgi /Naihanchi1-3
Bassai 
Ship su 
Yoon be
Jion

My teachers have not adopted any ITF or Kukkiwon forms. By anyones measure we look more like shotokan than we do modern Tae Kwon do.


----------



## Tez3 (Feb 27, 2009)

I always thought it was a strike to the groin...you know, divide and conquer!! that could just be a female perspective  >cue evil laugh<


----------



## arnisador (Feb 27, 2009)

I've seen that, but usually targeted lower and the palm facing more up than sideways.


----------



## exile (Feb 27, 2009)

Abernethy interprets the spearhands as rotated strikes with the palm heel, with the fingers having no involvement at alland the strikes are not strikes to the midbody, but to the attacker's _forcibly lowered_ head as a result of what he analyzes as controlling techniques immediately preceding. The real striking surface, given the bunkai he presents in his DVD on the Pinan kata set, is the base of the palm.


----------



## Brandon Fisher (Feb 27, 2009)

Spearhand or Nukite can be developed to have a great effect when hiting someone.  But the training to get your fingers conditioned for that is burtal.  Here is a couple of videos demonstrating the power of a strike using the fingertips.

Kyoshi Kiyohide Shinjo, 8th Dan Uechi Ryu




 
Grandmaster Elton Trower




 
These men are amazing but are among only a few that can do this type of thing.

Bunkai is something that is open to interpertation so don't get locked into just one idea.


----------



## astrobiologist (Feb 27, 2009)

Brandon Fisher said:


> Bunkai is something that is open to interpertation so don't get locked into just one idea.


 
Truly.  That's the beauty of interpretation.  However, when it comes to interpreting kata, there are some things that work okay, some that work well, and others that work great.  Just depends on what you're looking to train.


----------



## arnisador (Feb 27, 2009)

exile said:


> Abernethy interprets the spearhands as rotated strikes with the palm heel, with the fingers having no involvement at all&#8212;and the strikes are not strikes to the midbody, but to the attacker's _forcibly lowered_ head as a result of what he analyzes as controlling techniques immediately preceding. The real striking surface, given the bunkai he presents in his DVD on the Pinan kata set, is the base of the palm.



I've seen that technique in Goju and Uechi, but it was much more explicit--e.g., the "paint the fence" blocks from _Karate Kid_, rotated 90 degrees in Goju's _Tensho_ kata. The fingers are clearly turned out.


----------



## Makalakumu (Feb 27, 2009)

Also, the beauty of bunkai is that you can shape the art to your needs.  If you can put the time in to condition and pull a spearhand off in a real fight, that's great for you.  If you want to use it to set up a throw, then do so.  If you pull someones head down and jab them in the neck, that's your thing.  

And so on.  Go with what works for you.  Train with what works for you.  Create an art that will defend YOURself.


----------



## astrobiologist (Feb 27, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Also, the beauty of bunkai is that you can shape the art to your needs. If you can put the time in to condition and pull a spearhand off in a real fight, that's great for you. If you want to use it to set up a throw, then do so. If you pull someones head down and jab them in the neck, that's your thing.
> 
> And so on. Go with what works for you. Train with what works for you. Create an art that will defend YOURself.


 
Well spoken, as always.  -Respect


----------



## Grenadier (Feb 27, 2009)

boobishi said:


> Our group was under the direction of Yong Taek Chung. He passed away in the last few years. Cung was the &th CDK black belt onder Won kuk Lee. Chung spent the 50s and 60s living in Japan. When he came to the U.S he ended up in kansas City. He taught...
> 
> Tae Kuk 1-3
> Kuk Mu 1-5
> ...


 
Thanks for the clarification.  I did a bit of digging after reading this, and found that there are, indeed, several strains of Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do out there.  

Much appreciated.


----------



## suicide (Feb 28, 2009)

sometimes when thers a spearhand tech i just flip to a fist :jediduel:


----------



## Makalakumu (Feb 28, 2009)

suicide said:


> sometimes when thers a spearhand tech i just flip to a fist :jediduel:



That's probably the safest bet.  If you are going to strike to the body, even with a conditioned weapon, can you risk injuring yourself when your life is on the line?


----------



## Tez3 (Feb 28, 2009)

exile said:


> Abernethy interprets the spearhands as rotated strikes with the palm heel, with the fingers having no involvement at alland the strikes are not strikes to the midbody, but to the attacker's _forcibly lowered_ head as a result of what he analyzes as controlling techniques immediately preceding. The real striking surface, given the bunkai he presents in his DVD on the Pinan kata set, is the base of the palm.


 
Seriously, I've always been taught that it was more of a palm heel strike than a 'finger' strike. We do a strike kata where the spear hand is used across the eyes/top of face from the side with the palm doing the striking. In the same kata the spearhand is done palm up to the groin.


----------



## exile (Feb 28, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Seriously, I've always been taught that it was more of a palm heel strike than a 'finger' strike. We do a strike kata where the spear hand is used across the eyes/top of face from the side with the palm doing the striking. In the same kata the spearhand is done palm up to the groin.




One thing that militates in favor of the palm-heel interpretation of those spearhands is the fact that Itosu seems to have viewed the Pinan forms as kind of the basic training curriculum for karate&#8212;not necessarily that they were _inherently_ 'children's forms' (Abernethy does a good job, I think, in showing that they have plenty of hard combat content that you probably wouldn't want to teach children about), but that they were the early stages of the syllabus, as he pictured it. And the spearhands show up in the very first ones in the set. If you're teaching people new to the game, it seems unlikely that you'd offer them even disguised versions of techs that require years of conditioning to do safely, such as a finger strike to the midbody. As people have pointed out already, if you're attacking a bony area, (such as the ribs), a finger strike is probably the worst possible weapon unless you're _really_ advanced. By contrast, the palm heel strike&#8212;_especially_ performed with a vertical hand, which makes it much easier to get the fingers out of the way than a palm heel which starts with the palm parallel to the ground and then rotates it inward toward the defender's body to extend the palm heel surface ahead of the folded fingers&#8212;requires no conditioning at all and has all the advantages of a 'blunt force trauma' strike.


----------



## arnisador (Feb 28, 2009)

exile said:


> If you're teaching people new to the game, it seems unlikely that you'd offer them even disguised versions of techs that require years of conditioning to do safely, such as a finger strike to the midbody.



Agreed.

So, now we need a photograph of Ank&#333; Itosu doing the form in the late 1800s. The palm heel with the fingers turned either all the way out nearly 90 degrees) or only part of the way out (30-45 degrees) appears often enough that that seems a reasonable bet to me--a side palm heel strike to the lower ribs rather than a spearhand strike to the midline.

So...when did the transcription error enter? Do we blame it on 'dumbing things down' for the Japanese again?


----------



## exile (Feb 28, 2009)

A photo of Itosu doing pretty much _any_ martial technique would be one of the great finds of MA history. The prospects seem dim... but who knows? There could be a bunch of them in a dusty old box in someone's attic, or some archives together with a bunch of other stuff that has no connection with the MAs... something that only a connoisseur of early Karate would recognize for its true value. That's the damnable thing about trying to do responsible history: you're really at the mercy of chance for the preservation and revelation of your crucial documents. It's the same dilemma that music lovers face: who knows how many great works of Mozart or Bach are sitting in forgotten filing cabinets in some church basement somewhere... best not to even think about it: that way lies madness...

But Arni's question&#8212;where did the transcription error come in?&#8212;beams in on the key issue that's emerged in the recent, much more rigorous approach to the history of the Karate-based arts that's emerged during the past decade or so: _what actually was happening in the early years?_ What was the training philosophy? How was it realized in the curriculum of the Okinawan masters, and exactly what changes did Funakoshi make, and when, to that curriculum? How was the method of bunkai taught, and to whom, and how were its results pressure-tested? (We know that some of the greatest karateka of all, such Kyan and Motobu, believed in 'extreme reality-based scenario training', i.e., deliberately sought-out streetfights and barroom brawls, but we also know that this approach was not exactly, um, _approved_ of by the senior masters of the time.)

Harry Cook has a new edition about to come out of his _Shotokan Karate: a Precise History_ that I've already plunked down a C-note for (with luck, it'll be out before I'm too old/weak to do MAs), and a new book on the history of Okinawan karate that I've already prepaid for and am sitting around almost sick with anticipation waiting to get my hands on. I'm hoping the answers will be in those books; if anyone can crack this mystery, it's Cook, probably the best Karate historian there ever was or will be. The problem is, we now know in a sense the kinds of questions we need answers to, but the nature of the situation is such that the evidence to answer those questions may just.... not _exist_.


----------



## robertmrivers (Mar 3, 2009)

I respectfully offer this:

Solar Plexus Level does not mean hit to the solar plexus. It means what you are hitting is at your solar plexus level. 

One only hits soft targets with the spear hand motion. 

Therefore, we have to look at the kata and REALLY understand (meaning, move away from conjecture and actually study the art from a reputable source and learn the answers from the source) how the transitions work to get those soft targets to the level that the kata says to strike. 

It also acceptable to simply use the "height of the strike is a variable" method, but, in my experience, there is a reason that the posture used to apply those spear hand motions at solar plexus level. 

As I've said in the past, you're not going to figure it out. There is material needed to complete this puzzle that you cannot get anywhere else but the source. 

The utilization of the "kata as an element of the complete martial art that is Okinawan Karate" matrix is pointless unless you have an interest in getting to the root of it. Its use and practice is not something that can just plug into another martial art...

Best

Rob Rivers


----------



## DavidCC (Mar 5, 2009)

exile said:


> One thing that militates in favor of the palm-heel interpretation of those spearhands is the fact that Itosu seems to have viewed the Pinan forms as kind of the basic training curriculum for karatenot necessarily that they were _inherently_ 'children's forms' (Abernethy does a good job, I think, in showing that they have plenty of hard combat content that you probably wouldn't want to teach children about), but that they were the early stages of the syllabus, as he pictured it. And the spearhands show up in the very first ones in the set. If you're teaching people new to the game, it seems unlikely that you'd offer them even disguised versions of techs that require years of conditioning to do safely, such as a finger strike to the midbody. As people have pointed out already, if you're attacking a bony area, (such as the ribs), a finger strike is probably the worst possible weapon unless you're _really_ advanced. By contrast, the palm heel strike_especially_ performed with a vertical hand, which makes it much easier to get the fingers out of the way than a palm heel which starts with the palm parallel to the ground and then rotates it inward toward the defender's body to extend the palm heel surface ahead of the folded fingersrequires no conditioning at all and has all the advantages of a 'blunt force trauma' strike.


 
yeah, it's like a chicken-and-egg problem

do you take beginners and start them conditioning for a strike that you won't teach them for years, or do you teach them the strike before they are conditioned for it, and tell them not to use it yet?  neither seems like a good idea... 

Of course if you eventually get where you can jab your spearhand through a board, that is pretty impressive.  But it seems more like a demo trick than anything your average student would have available to them.  Especailly with modern students' training time available...


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Mar 5, 2009)

Newbie here.  Please disregard if what I say is stupid!

We learn nukite strikes in several kata and our basic upper body exercises (tegata barai, nukite).  We practice as you say, with a 'knife hand' to the solar plexus.

However, when we do bunkai, sensei breaks it down for us.  He pointed out just what you said - that the knife hand to the solar plexus may not be an effective striking point or that the knife hand may not itself be the best thing to use.  But, having learned the nukite, he pointed out how in an actual fight, it could easily be a nukite to the throat (as you also showed), a shuto punch or chop with the edge of the hand (and you showed that too, I think) or the nukite could become a palm strike or a haito using the inside ridge of the hand to various parts of the face, or even a rising punch or jodan oi tsuki.

He also pointed out that in isshinryu, the hand is not commonly held like a knife, but is cupped slightly, as if one is scooping and drinking water from a bucket.  This appears (to me) to make the ends of the fingers about the same length, and lets me strike with a nukite with much more force; and without having done time on a makiwara or a pot of sand to desensitize my hands.

Am I on the right track?


----------

