# Looking for info - Kosho Shorei-ry Kenpo



## Xue Sheng (May 5, 2010)

I have pretty much the same post here, but I thought the best place on MT to ask this would be in the kenpo/kempo section

I am wondering what the opinion of Kenpo/Kempo people is of Kosho Shorei-ry&#363; Kenpo as a martial art? 

Not the James Mitose stuff, I know about that, but of the art itself


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## Milt G. (May 31, 2010)

Hello,

The Kosho-Ryu of Bruce Juchnik is very interesting, intricate and effective in my opinion.  Of course, he did learn the basic concepts of what he does today from James Mitose in the late 1970's and early 1980's.  His base knowledge was the Parker/Tracy Kenpo system.  His training with Mitose was conceptual only, for the most part.

More info. can be found online with a search of his name, or his group the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai.  Kurt Van Sickle-Shihan, a good friend of mine (of more then 25 years) is one of Juchnik-Hanshi's regional representatives, here in Oregon.

I do not think you will find much in the way of authentic Kosho-Ryu other then through the Mitose lineage.  True Kosho-Ryu is conceptually based, and can be applied to almost any existing "traditional" art.  The base system is usually applied to a Japanese Karate system, as that was James Mitose's base art.  I know, I know...  Most people think that Mitose only studied "basic" Japanese Karate.  Maybe he did?  But...  Why do so many advanced practitioners and system heads claim him in their lineage?  Love him, or hate him, James Mitose had quite an influence on the Kenpo that is studied and taught today. 

Do you know of any Kosho-Ryu that is not connected, in some way, to James Mitose?

Thank you,
Milt G.
mlguinette@comcast.net


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## Ryan_Nelson (Mar 29, 2012)

This is my first post here on the forum, so I will start by saying hello...

Juchnik Hanshi's education from Mitose sensei was more than the basic concepts.  While the lessons were less physical than would be typical (due to where the lessons took place) they were still beyond 'basic concepts.'  Kosho, as Mitose taught it to Juchnik, was void of most kata, and even long after Mitose's death, Kosho kata continued to be developed.  Hanshi added many traditional Japanese kata, as well as Okinawan.  For example, when I began studying Kosho, the Pinan (Heinan) katas were the beginning kata... 10 years later, several new kata sets, such as Juni Ippo (not sure on spelling) were added before the Pinan, and some katas removed.

With Regards to Mitose lineage...  Thomas Mitose inheritted the Kajukembo art, but for whatever reason James Mitose chose to not leave Kosho to him.  According to Hanshi Juchnik, and George Santana (the man that introduced Mitose and Juchnik) Mitose left Kosho in Juchnik's hands.  I make a habit of doubting folk when they make claims that lift themselves up.  In this case, however, there are several folk confirming this from first hand experience.  When one gets into the nitty-gritty of the arts history, it gets confusing, as it would seem there are different 'koshos.'  One person, for example, claims lineage to Kosho Ninjutsu... another to Kosho Koppojutsu.  I do not know which, or if all are connected to the Kosho taught by Mitose.

Many Kempo styles include Mitose in their lineage, as all American Kempo styles began with Mitose's early Hawaii students, most notable William Chow.

Anyway, enough early morning rambling for me...

Frith,
Ryan


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## KenpoDave (Apr 3, 2012)

I have had the opportunity to work with, observe, and attend seminars with people who study/practice/teach Kosho from several different lineages (the 5 Masters that Mitose designated).  Here is what I have seen:  The Kosho students of Bruce Juchniks that I worked with practiced what appeared to be somewhere between jujitsu and aikido.  The movements were aikido-like in flow, but the locks and throws were "harder," if that makes sense.  There were no strikes, and when I questioned the guys about this, they commented that they rarely worked on striking, almost exclusively practicing grappling.

The Kosho that I have observed done by Ray Arquilla and his students was more kenpo.  The concepts of war arts, joint striking/locking, push/pull, and evasion were taught and applied from the framework of the Tracy's Kenpo techniques.

The differences in these two approaches is interesting to me, given the similar kenpo backgrounds of both men.

Thomas Mitose's Kosho, from what I have observed and from the seminar that I attended, seems to be based in the conceptual framework, with a lack of specific training techniques.  There may be specifics within the system, but the seminar was not presented that way.  It more closely resembled Mr. Juchnik's method, although strikes were used.  However, the strikes seemed to be for the purpose of getting into grappling range rather than for the purpose of ending the confrontation.

From my limited exposure, Ray Arquilla seems to be teaching Kosho Shorei Ryu Kenpo.  The other two men seem to be teaching Kosho Shorei Ryu applied to something else (aikido or jujitsu).  Kosho Shorei, applied to whatever base, appears to be effective and an enhancement to any art.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 4, 2012)

KenpoDave said:


> I have had the opportunity to work with, observe, and attend seminars with people who study/practice/teach Kosho from several different lineages (the 5 Masters that Mitose designated).  Here is what I have seen:  The Kosho students of Bruce Juchniks that I worked with practiced what appeared to be somewhere between jujitsu and aikido.  The movements were aikido-like in flow, but the locks and throws were "harder," if that makes sense.  There were no strikes, and when I questioned the guys about this, they commented that they rarely worked on striking, almost exclusively practicing grappling.
> 
> The Kosho that I have observed done by Ray Arquilla and his students was more kenpo.  The concepts of war arts, joint striking/locking, push/pull, and evasion were taught and applied from the framework of the Tracy's Kenpo techniques.
> 
> ...



The Bruce Juchnik's atuff appears to be somewhere between jujitsu and aikido, that is interesting. There is a  Bruce Juchnik affiliated school near me.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 6, 2012)

KenpoDave said:


> I have had the opportunity to work with, observe, and attend seminars with people who study/practice/teach Kosho from several different lineages (the 5 Masters that Mitose designated).  Here is what I have seen:  The Kosho students of Bruce Juchniks that I worked with practiced what appeared to be somewhere between jujitsu and aikido.  The movements were aikido-like in flow, but the locks and throws were "harder," if that makes sense.  There were no strikes, and when I questioned the guys about this, they commented that they rarely worked on striking, almost exclusively practicing grappling.
> 
> The Kosho that I have observed done by Ray Arquilla and his students was more kenpo.  The concepts of war arts, joint striking/locking, push/pull, and evasion were taught and applied from the framework of the Tracy's Kenpo techniques.
> 
> ...



I have watched some of the YouTube Videos of Bruce Juchniks and it looks good and I like it, probably better than other versions I have seen (that is not a comment on skill or legitimacy it is only personal preference, what can I say my first MA was jujitsu) but the lack of strikes I find interesting since in Mitose&#8217;s book there was section on strikes, not a lot, but it does show he trained them


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## KenpoDave (Apr 6, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have watched some of the YouTube Videos of Bruce Juchniks and it looks good and I like it, probably better than other versions I have seen (that is not a comment on skill or legitimacy it is only personal preference, what can I say my first MA was jujitsu) but the lack of strikes I find interesting since in Mitoses book there was section on strikes, not a lot, but it does show he trained them



That was interesting to me as well.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Apr 7, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have watched some of the YouTube Videos of Bruce Juchniks and it looks good and I like it, probably better than other versions I have seen (that is not a comment on skill or legitimacy it is only personal preference, what can I say my first MA was jujitsu) but the lack of strikes I find interesting since in Mitose&#8217;s book there was section on strikes, not a lot, but it does show he trained them


And, in Mitose's book he says something like, "Kenpo is not hand trick, like jujutsu."


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## Milt G. (Nov 18, 2012)

KenpoDave said:


> That was interesting to me as well.



I think Kosho-Ryu differs from senior to senior in that it is a concept based art, and not a technique based art.  The arts "look and feel" will be influenced by the individual practitioner.  Why Bruce Juchnik's looks (is) different from Thomas Mitose's and Ray Arquilla's I think?


Concepts are more difficult to interpret then techniques, at least for most.  There is much more latitude.  Thus the "style" differences and interpretations.
And then there are the kata...  Which tend to follow the "flavor" of the practitioners base art.   


An interesting thing, this Kosho-Ryu, to say the least.
Thank you,
Milt G.
(Not primarily a Kosho-Ryu practitioner)


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## Carol (Nov 18, 2012)

Concepts sounds about right, based on my own limited exposure.  Mr. Juchnik, Mr. Arquilla, and the others trained with Mitose while he was incarcerated if I recall correctly.  I would think this would have lended itself to a conceptual discussion without as much hands-on or as much specifics, but I don't know.

I attended a 2 day seminar with Mr. Juchnik a few years ago and wasn't at all surprised to hear that he had his own Filipino/Indonesian MA association...a lot of what I saw looked like something one might find in Silat.


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## Milt G. (Nov 18, 2012)

Carol said:


> Concepts sounds about right, based on my own limited exposure.  Mr. Juchnik, Mr. Arquilla, and the others trained with Mitose while he was incarcerated if I recall correctly.  I would think this would have lended itself to a conceptual discussion without as much hands-on or as much specifics, but I don't know.
> 
> I attended a 2 day seminar with Mr. Juchnik a few years ago and wasn't at all surprised to hear that he had his own Filipino/Indonesian MA association...a lot of what I saw looked like something one might find in Silat.



Hi, Carol...
Bruce Juchnik is an interesting individual.  I believe his "base" is Tracy/Parker Kenpo (his teacher was Dan Babcock) but he studies, or has studied, quite a few other arts as well.

He had a knack for the arts in general, as when he demonstrates any one of them you would think that what he is demonstrating was what he has studied his whole life.  There are few who have this "gift", I think?  I don't think he has a bad "event".  Sadly, as with many of us, he is getting a little older and slowing down some.  But quite the martial arts "ride" he has had!  

I highly recommend anyone to attend one of his events, or study with him.  He can definitely add something to the art they are currently studying.  Regardless of what that art may be.  And this is coming from someone who is not his biggest "fan".  But I do know what cutting edge Kempo/Kenpo is and he is there, I believe.  


Just my .02...!
Milt G.


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## punisher73 (Nov 19, 2012)

Just a little more on the history, the men in the audio are Nimr Hassan (formerly Terry Lee, who was involved in the Mitose murders) and Bruce Juchnik.  The audio has been presented by others to show that Mr. Juchnik did not learn as much from Mitose as is claimed because he is asking about basic ideas of Mitose's art after Mitose died.


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