# Awca



## anexa (Sep 1, 2008)

Has anyone tried the www.awcaonline.com distance learning program?  I was thinking about trying it out but I can't really find anything on sifu philip bradley or don grose.  I also can't find anything on the international Ving Tsun Kung Fu Federation.  Perhaps I'm being paranoid but I can't tell if it's legit.  I would love to hear anyone's opinion on the whether or not it seems alright or to hear from anyone who has tried it.  Thank you!


----------



## martyg (Sep 1, 2008)

Don and Phil are great people, and reputable.

As far as a distance learning program in general  (there are a lot of people who offer them), I'm of the opinion its not realistic as far as options go.  Wing Chun is a hands on art, and not something you learn by mimicking a bunch of motions and such.  That's usually pretty superficial as far as training goes.


----------



## almost a ghost (Sep 1, 2008)

I worked out with a guy for a few weeks that bought it. Product wise it is very thorough, but be aware that the forms are Leung Ting lineage, regardless of them using the spelling "Wing Chun" or being part of a "Ving Tsun" organization. Not trying to start a lineage war, but it was the source of a lot of confusion with the getleman I worked out with who learned the form from the Augustine Fong's lineage.


----------



## mook jong man (Sep 1, 2008)

Distance learning ?  :lfao::lfao::lfao::lfao:


----------



## anexa (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.   Also, yes.. this is distance learning.  I live in a very small town and will not be able to move in the near future and would like to get started in wing chun.  When I am able to move at some point I would like to join a school but the fact that they have seminars and camps I can attend help because they can correct me as I go.  All we have here is McTaeKwonDo (ATA) and Isshin-Ryu (not bad but not interesting to me).


----------



## Xue Sheng (Sep 2, 2008)

anexa said:


> Has anyone tried the www.awcaonline.com distance learning program?


 
No I haven&#8217;t and no I wouldn't, too much going on in Wing Chun to really get it via distance learning.

I never got past Siu Lim Tao but just looking at the way your wrist moves in different forms would make it rather difficult to learn correctly without a sifu


----------



## geezer (Sep 2, 2008)

anexa said:


> Has anyone tried the www.awcaonline.com distance learning program? I was thinking about trying it out but I can't really find anything on sifu philip bradley or don grose. I also can't find anything on the international Ving Tsun Kung Fu Federation. Perhaps I'm being paranoid but I can't tell if it's legit. I would love to hear anyone's opinion on the whether or not it seems alright or to hear from anyone who has tried it. Thank you!


 
Yeah, I know...or rather _knew_ both of the gentlemen in question. Don was an instructor-ranked student of my Si Dei "younger kung-fu brother", Robert Jacquet in Leung Ting's "Wing Tsun" lineage in the '80s and early '90s. He broke off on his own back in the 90's. Phil Bradley was a promising student of my Si-Hing or "elder brother" Keith Sonnenberg at about the same time. He also left to go on his own. Personally I was friendly with both, and respect peoples' right to follow their own paths (I myself have switched organizations). However, neither of these gentlemen were anywhere near what I would call "master level" back then, and from what I've seen and heard, are still not at that exalted a level now. Of course I may be mistaken.

Secondly, like many others posting here, regardless of lineage, I do not believe that you can effectively learn WC/WT/VT by correspondence. If you are studying under the guidance of a teacher, videos and books can serve as a reference and provide excellent supplemental information...but that's about it. My advice is to find a qualified instructor and learn directly from him. _"Vale mas el modo viejo"_ --the old way is better!


----------



## anexa (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for some more good replies... However, I don't live near a qualified instructor and may not for 5 or 6 years.  I am very interested in this art form and feel that I can learn on my own in addition to meeting up with the instructor at camps and whatnot. 

I agree with everyone that says distance learning is not the best option but for me it is the only option.  Sifu Phil has also added a webcam service where he can comment on your moves in real time which is pretty awesome.  I think that his system is the most interactive and logical and will hopefully work until I get somewhere where I can actually go to a gym.


----------



## brocklee (Sep 3, 2008)

anexa said:


> Thanks for some more good replies... However, I don't live near a qualified instructor and may not for 5 or 6 years.  I am very interested in this art form and feel that I can learn on my own in addition to meeting up with the instructor at camps and whatnot.
> 
> I agree with everyone that says distance learning is not the best option but for me it is the only option.  Sifu Phil has also added a webcam service where he can comment on your moves in real time which is pretty awesome.  I think that his system is the most interactive and logical and will hopefully work until I get somewhere where I can actually go to a gym.



You'll end up creating bad habits that become very hard to get rid of after you start proper training.  I started retraining under WT, and only for a few lessons, and developed their style of pivoting or rotating the feet.  It took me forever to relearn to how to turn on my heals.


----------



## geezer (Sep 3, 2008)

brocklee said:


> You'll end up creating bad habits that become very hard to get rid of after you start proper training. I started retraining under WT, and only for a few lessons, and developed their style of pivoting or rotating the feet. It took me forever to relearn to how to turn on my heals.


 
Turning on your heels... as compared to the center of the foot? Just be glad you didn't practice a lineage that teaches turning on your balls. That's gotta hurt. LOL.

Awca: keep looking for an instructor or even a training partner. WC/WT isn't an art you can train alone...you need a partner to cross bridges with. I, for example, keep trying to get brocklee to call me and work some chi-sau. But Nooo-oo-oo. Anyway, don't give up. In time you'll find a group to work with. Good Luck!


----------



## qwksilver61 (Sep 4, 2008)

My answer to this post is that; maybe something is better than nothing at all
I know people who crave Wing Chun just as much as the next guy,but cannot afford to either travel or pay the high fee of attending a seminar.Sadly money does play a big part in all of this.For nearly 20 yrs.I practiced alone,sometimes with other people,frustrating yes,am I good at what I know?,I will take my chances,just like all the other small guys,who want more,but cannot attain more and have to settle for what they can get,you got it, great!Ego much? or hard work?I used to fantasize about the poor soul who used to peer through the fence for lessons,how did he feel? Of course someone always knows more than the next guy,but remember;that individual may have his heart and soul into his lessons.To me it's all about commitment and not just passing time,and sometimes it's all you have.....in the middle of nowhere.......
































































































































































 My hat's off to all you underdogs out there whose heart is in the right place,keep up the good work...recognizing the will and good intent,wise souls can recognize it,even the smallest seed can be nurtured......blah....blah.....blah......two cents........


----------



## yak sao (Sep 4, 2008)

What about contacting an instructor in your general vecinity and having him come to you on a monthly or bi monthly basis. If you have friends who are interested as well they can help you offset the cost

Between visits from your Sifu you and your friends would get together and drill over the material until next seminar. Doing it this way wouldn't cost much more than monthly dues at a school. Obviously you wouldn't progress as quickly as in a school, but you would be learning from a live instructor and getting feedback from him.
Another benefit from this is it teaches you to think for yourself (as well as motivate yourself) instead of having your teacher right there to ask a question it gives you time to mull it over.


----------



## qwksilver61 (Sep 5, 2008)

Not to come off as a smartass,but I have been doing just that.My frustration lies in finding a suitable training partner here locally.Most people want "McDonalds and I want it now" I did get one guy through the first form,problem is;he always wants to drive the bus and cannot even master the basics.Oh well,answer,keep searching....


----------



## Don Grose (Oct 1, 2008)

geezer said:


> Yeah, I know...or rather _knew_ both of the gentlemen in question. Don was an instructor-ranked student of my Si Dei "younger kung-fu brother", Robert Jacquet in Leung Ting's "Wing Tsun" lineage in the '80s and early '90s. He broke off on his own back in the 90's. Phil Bradley was a promising student of my Si-Hing or "elder brother" Keith Sonnenberg at about the same time. He also left to go on his own. Personally I was friendly with both, and respect peoples' right to follow their own paths (I myself have switched organizations). However, neither of these gentlemen were anywhere near what I would call "master level" back then, and from what I've seen and heard, are still not at that exalted a level now. Of course I may be mistaken.
> 
> Secondly, like many others posting here, regardless of lineage, I do not believe that you can effectively learn WC/WT/VT by correspondence. If you are studying under the guidance of a teacher, videos and books can serve as a reference and provide excellent supplemental information...but that's about it. My advice is to find a qualified instructor and learn directly from him. _"Vale mas el modo viejo"_ --the old way is better!


I would just like to say that neither Phil nor myself have ever claimed to be masters of Wing Chun / Ving Tsun. Rank designations are another matter. As for our abilities you can check it out for yourself. Also I believe I know who you  are and I have not worked with you for over 20 years. I know that you have improved as well as Phil and myself have hopefully improved. I have been able to do some minor training with a large number of students of GGM Yip Man and students of his two sons and have done chi sau with one of Yip Man's sons. I have kept an open mind and have sought them out and learned as much as possible from them in the time I spent with them. The knowledge has filled many gaps in my training. I also believe 
that under my former Sifu and Sigung I learned much and have always given them credit for much. But I also know that Sigung was very knowledgeable and a great teacher but as in all things no one person has all the truth no matter what the field of study. Anyone who believes that they do has a very narrow view of the world. I will here invite you to visit Master Samuel Kwok seminar in Tempe
October 25th 2008. Contact SiFu Nick Minerva. You can look him up on Google. Who is Samuel Kwok? He is a direct student of Yip Man's two sons and others.
Yes I was promoted to Primary level instructor by Sigung. Now if you think he made a mistake take it up with him. I know when I first started with the WT system all of my SiFu were very new in the system also. And was a bit of discussion among some of us. If you think my level was not up to standard then what does that say about sigung.
The best to you and your future.


----------



## matsu (Oct 2, 2008)

hi don

i checked out your site and you have a great site there. very thorough very informative and i dont think any one on here esp this thread has questioned you or your background,
the statements have been very much that wing chun is a hands on skill set and to teach it online would not be the best way to learn it.
having said that i think if i were stuck in middle of nowhere your is an option i might consider.
better than books and if there is interaction then even better than jsut dvds.
good luck with it.

matsu


----------



## geezer (Oct 3, 2008)

Don Grose said:


> I would just like to say that neither Phil nor myself have ever claimed to be masters of Wing Chun / Ving Tsun... Also I believe I know who you are and I have not worked with you for over 20 years.  I also believe that under my former Sifu and Sigung I learned much and have always given them credit for much. But I also know that Sigung was very knowledgeable and a great teacher but as in all things no one person has all the truth no matter what the field of study. Anyone who believes that they do has a very narrow view of the world...


 
Hey Don... _relaxe!_ It's obvious that you don't check in on this forum too often. Most of us here are _not_ into insulting each others' styles at all. In fact, this is about the only place I've found where people from different WC/WT /VT lineages seem to respect each other. And don't think that I'm on your case for going out and doing your own thing. Actually, all of us have. It's like you said, "no one person has all the truth..." So yes, I will check out the upcoming Samuel Kwok seminar.  And, if I can afford it I'll be there. BTW, a while ago I tried to contact you on your website but didn't hear back. PM me on this forum, or email me and let's catch up. It _has_ been about 20 years! Your old Si-pak--Steve.

Oh, and one other thing. I still don't think you can learn much through video and correspondence _alone._ Maybe I'm just stubborn!?!


----------



## skinters (Oct 3, 2008)

attending a seminar with samuel kwok tomorow be my first time seeing him work up close .


----------



## dungeonworks (Oct 3, 2008)

Well, seeing as that I am having my own Wing Chun struggles *at an arms length* away from my instructors, distance learning would be really hard....*for me*.  We are all gonna learn differently and distance learning *for me* would not be an option.  I understand your dilemma since there are only about 3 commercial Wing Chun or Wing Chun derived schools in the lower penninsula of Michigan.  It was hard to find, but staying dedicated to searching, I did find a Kwoon that is better than I could have imagined....and it isn't commercial.  I have found many Wing Chun schools that are not commercial.  People training in basements or garages...ect.  I would not be suprised if you have one in your area.


----------



## matsu (Oct 4, 2008)

dungeonworks said:


> Well, seeing as that I am having my own Wing Chun struggles *at an arms length* away from my instructors, quote]
> 
> 
> yeah me too!!
> ...


----------



## dungeonworks (Oct 4, 2008)

Matsu,

I think here it is more quality control than secrecy.  With most other arts, the teacher can lead a larger group of students and hardly ever have much one-on-one with them.  In Wing Chun/Tsun as you know, it is essential to "touch hands".  There is no other way to learn it, not with punching air or bags alone.  Sensitivity is the one aspect that makes it not really fit for a large class size (or distance learning In my humble opinion).  That diminishes the income levels needed for a commercial store front Kwoon and it is simply more financially feasible to operate from a homebased location.  Toss in the fact that Wing Chun/Tsun has always been one of the smaller and harder to find styles in an area ripe with Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, Shotokan Karate, and various off-shoots of them.


----------

