# Open Handed Modern Arnis?



## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

When I talked to a Modern Arnis practioner, I asked him what open handed Modern Arnis was like. He said, in a way, that it is informal MMA. He said it has MT like strikes, Karate like strikes, Jduo like grappling, and Small Circle Jujitsu standing locks. He said when they spar, their open hnaded striking is like Kickboxing/MMA.

Is that true? How is it at your school?


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## Rich Parsons (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> When I talked to a Modern Arnis practioner, I asked him what open handed Modern Arnis was like. He said, in a way, that it is informal MMA. He said it has MT like strikes, Karate like strikes, Jduo like grappling, and Small Circle Jujitsu standing locks. He said when they spar, their open hnaded striking is like Kickboxing/MMA.
> 
> Is that true? How is it at your school?



Well I may not have useed the term MMA as that seems to imply more today then it did years ago to the average person. 

There are hand strikes that are similar to Karate and there is also Judo and Small Circle Jujitsu in the system, with the same idea of flowing from technique to technique. 

This can be done in the single or base techinque training only and leave it up to the student to tie it all together. Or the school could use some drills or just live training with control to get people to put it in to the mix. 

Good luck


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## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

I heard that Modern Arnis striking is close to Muay Thai striking. (knees, elbows, and kicks) Also I've seen stuff like double leg takedowns, and hip throws. Is that in Modern Arnis, or is that a different Kali system?


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## arnisador (May 19, 2007)

Like MMA doesn't really capture it. But, there are empty-hand influences from FMA, Karate, and Jujutsu at the least. Yes, elbows are much used.

A lot of the rest--including how much grappling is done--really depends on the org./instructor.


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## MJS (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> When I talked to a Modern Arnis practioner, I asked him what open handed Modern Arnis was like. He said, in a way, that it is informal MMA. He said it has MT like strikes, Karate like strikes, Jduo like grappling, and Small Circle Jujitsu standing locks. He said when they spar, their open hnaded striking is like Kickboxing/MMA.
> 
> Is that true? How is it at your school?


 
I'd have to say alot would depend on the school, instructor, etc.  Some of the empty hand strikes that are done at my school are:  jab, cross, hook, uppercut, hammerfist, finger thrusts, and elbows, to name a few.  You will also see alot of limb destruction/gunting type moves. Kicks:  Front, side, roundhouse, back, stomps.  These kicks for the most part are done low.  

As for the groundwork:  There are takedowns and throws that are done off of punches and kicks.  From there, the ground work consists of locks, controlling, etc.  As far as it looking like a BJJ match, no.  However, my instructor adds in grappling (BJJ) into his classes, so thats an extra perk.  It also seems that the ground game is being added in a bit more.  At the last Summer camp I was at, there was a ground fighting session.  I missed the majority of it due to testing, but the little that I did see, looked good! 

There is alot of joint locking, as I said above.  

If this is something you're interested in, you'd get a better feel by watching a class. 

Mike


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## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

Do you know about a FMA master named Ken Smith from Orland Park, Il?


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## MJS (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Do you know about a FMA master named Ken Smith from Orland Park, Il?


 
Actually, yes I do.   I've had the pleasure of training with him a few times.  Very friendly, knows his stuff, and over all a great martial artist.  My first Arnis camp was at his school.  It was a blast!!  A bunch of us went down a day early for a night on the town.  Hit a great restaurant and some blues clubs.  Ken put on a super seminar!  All of his students were great as well! 

Mike


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## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

MJS said:


> Actually, yes I do.  I've had the pleasure of training with him a few times. Very friendly, knows his stuff, and over all a great martial artist. My first Arnis camp was at his school. It was a blast!! A bunch of us went down a day early for a night on the town. Hit a great restaurant and some blues clubs. Ken put on a super seminar! All of his students were great as well!
> 
> Mike



Very nice. How well did he teach? His stickwork? Striking? Grappling?


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## Rich Parsons (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> I heard that Modern Arnis striking is close to Muay Thai striking. (knees, elbows, and kicks) Also I've seen stuff like double leg takedowns, and hip throws. Is that in Modern Arnis, or is that a different Kali system?




Yes elbows and knees and hip throws oh my!  But as I and others have siad it would depend upon the school and isntructor and possible the class.


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## MJS (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Very nice. How well did he teach? His stickwork? Striking? Grappling?


 
His teaching is very good IMHO.  One of the last times that I worked with him, he went into a lengthy detail on pressure points.  If you have the chance to work out with him, I'd take advantage of it.  As for the grappling...Dr. Schea did the majority of that, as that was his portion of the camp.  This isn't to say that Ken can't grapple, just that he was not teaching that section.  

Mike


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## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

MJS said:


> His teaching is very good IMHO. One of the last times that I worked with him, he went into a lengthy detail on pressure points. If you have the chance to work out with him, I'd take advantage of it. As for the grappling...Dr. Schea did the majority of that, as that was his portion of the camp. This isn't to say that Ken can't grapple, just that he was not teaching that section.
> 
> Mike



Yeah I'm definatly interested. My choices are BJJ, Modern Arnis, and Tracy Kenpo/Shootfighting. I want to get into competition, and do eventually fight in MMA. (I know Tait Fletcher from one of the TUF seasons was an FMA/BJJ practioner)


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## MJS (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Yeah I'm definatly interested. My choices are BJJ, Modern Arnis, and Tracy Kenpo/Shootfighting. I want to get into competition, and do eventually fight in MMA. (I know Tait Fletcher from one of the TUF seasons was an FMA/BJJ practioner)


 
Not sure how far you are from Ken, but if its within your means of travel, I'd definately check him out.


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## LegLockGuy (May 19, 2007)

Do you think Modern Arnis could help me in my goals of MMA style matches?


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## MJS (May 19, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Do you think Modern Arnis could help me in my goals of MMA style matches?


 
To a point, sure.  However, if that is the route you're looking for, I'd find a BJJ school.  As I said in an earlier post, there is a standard set of material to be taught, but things will differ from school to school.  You can pick up some decent stand up from Arnis, but the ground work is not on the level of what you'd find in a BJJ school.  A BJJ school will most likely go into much more depth.


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## Brian Johns (May 20, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Do you know about a FMA master named Ken Smith from Orland Park, Il?



I would echo the others here. Ken Smith is a superb Modern Arnis player and a superb instructor as well. He very often uses pressure points to explain Modern Arnis techniques or to enhance them. He's just a great guy and makes it easy for anyone to learn the art of Modern Arnis. However, it appears that you are much more interested in MMA and competing in MMA events. The focus of Ken's teaching is Modern Arnis as self defense rather than for MMA type events. If MMA is what you really want to do, I'd go with a BJJ school or a school that focuses on MMA. Good luck !!

Take care,
Brian


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## LegLockGuy (May 22, 2007)

Well the BJJ class is 200 a month, so thats out.

Im checking into Ken's school and I already checked out the Tracy Kenpo school. (good stuff)


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## JBrainard (May 23, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> Yeah I'm definatly interested. My choices are BJJ, Modern Arnis, and Tracy Kenpo/Shootfighting. I want to get into competition, and do eventually fight in MMA. (I know Tait Fletcher from one of the TUF seasons was an FMA/BJJ practioner)


 
This is probably blasphemous to say in this forum, but if you want to fight MMA, you should probably go to a MMA focused school. As MMA is becoming an art unto itself, you would probably be putting yourself at a disadvantage by training in Arnis or Tracy Kenpo without a strong background in the MMA staples (Kickboxing, Wrestling, Submission Wrestling, and BJJ).


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## LegLockGuy (May 23, 2007)

There's no MMA schools around me. (the only one is a very crappy wrestling gym posing as an MMA gym) Plus I like to have some structure in my training.



JBrainard said:


> This is probably blasphemous to say in this forum, but if you want to fight MMA, you should probably go to a MMA focused school. As MMA is becoming an art unto itself, you would probably be putting yourself at a disadvantage by training in Arnis or Tracy Kenpo without a strong background in the MMA staples (Kickboxing, Wrestling, Submission Wrestling, and BJJ).


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## JBrainard (May 23, 2007)

LegLockGuy said:


> There's no MMA schools around me. (the only one is a very crappy wrestling gym posing as an MMA gym) Plus I like to have some structure in my training.


 
Oh. Well, that being the case, a "complete" art such as Arnis (particularly mano-mano for use in MMA) would be a good way to go. But then again, I'm biased


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## Mark Lynn (Jun 26, 2007)

LegLockGuy

If your goal is MMA than I would try and find something that really fits the MMA bill snd work towards that.  Modern Arnis or the FMAs I personally don't think will fit that bill.

Not that the FMAs or Modern Arnis don't have groundwork but why spend time learning a system that is based on self defense and self defense using weapons (sticks and knives) if they won't help you in your goal of competing in MMA.

I believe your money would be better spent with the BJJ school at $200 a month learning ground fighting and ground fighting only than spending less but receiving instruction for which will not meet your goal.  And if your goal is MMA to compete in MMA and the teacher's goal is to teach self defense and the rest of the class is to learn an art based on self defense then that can be a frustrating esperience for everyone.

However if you go to the Modern Arnis school or any FMA school and want to learn stick and or knife fighting and compete in that realm than that is a different story.  I've trained with Ken at previous summer camps and he is an excellent instructor in Modern Arnis.

Mark


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