# Working out at a different dojo



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2009)

Since I'm currently at home in NC, I am not able to train in my MI dojo as I normally would.  So I contacted the sensei of a nearby Isshinryu dojo and asked if I could train in his dojo during July, and he kindly consented.

Last night was my first training session, and it was very informative and useful.  The warmups were more physical than I'm used to - no stretching, students apparently do that on their own before class begins.  I did my best to keep up.

I would not be a qualified orange belt under this dojo's rules, but I am an orange belt under my home dojo's rules, so I wore my belt and sensei had no objections.  About half the class is white belts, and they give out various colored tips to indicated minor progression - new to me.

I noticed that some of the moves are different here.  For example, they do their 'number ten' exercise (what I call a backfist and reverse punch or 'ura uchi, seiken tsuki') as a upper blody block, then a backfist, then a reverse punch.  Kind of throws off my stride, but I'll get the hang of it.

The dojo is physically larger, and so are the students!  Many of them are quite large, but all seem to be in reasonable physical condition.  I do not mean to be critical, but their white belts have some crappy punches - they toss their arms out like it's a dance.  Of course, it's not my place to say anything.

Anyway, it's interesting visiting a different dojo to work out temporarily.  I'm looking forward to learning more about the differences and similarities.


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## jarrod (Jul 2, 2009)

cool, keep us posted.  i've learned _something_ from every school i've visited, even if it's just for one lesson.

jf


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## seasoned (Jul 2, 2009)

It is definitely educational and interesting at the same time, when dojo hopping.


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## harlan (Jul 2, 2009)

I think that's great. With so much style jealousy around, it's nice that you've found some folks willing to have a non-member train with them.

I'm looking forward to something similar. A friend has invited me to train with her aikido group in town. I'm actually looking forward to learning how to fall!


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## Tames D (Jul 2, 2009)

It's always an interesting experience training as a guest at another dojo. It's good to get out there and bang with fighters other than the regulars in your class.

And as far as the white belts throwing crappy punches, that's because their white belts
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. With good instruction they'll be in better form by the time they test for the next level. Maybe.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2009)

harlan said:


> I think that's great. With so much style jealousy around, it's nice that you've found some folks willing to have a non-member train with them.


 
Well, we're all Isshinryu, and that kind of makes us family.



> I'm looking forward to something similar. A friend has invited me to train with her aikido group in town. I'm actually looking forward to learning how to fall!



Cool!  I am hoping to take some aikido or perhaps straight judo at some point in my MA training for the same reason.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2009)

Tames D said:


> And as far as the white belts throwing crappy punches, that's because their white belts
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, you are right, I'm sure.

I guess I am used to my own sensei (aren't we all?) who would not let a crappy punch pass.  He'd correct it on the spot.  I know he's on me like white on rice about my feet!

However, I realize it's important to zip my lip and be polite and respectful - this isn't my dojo, and they're not there to hear how my dojo does things!


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## jarrod (Jul 2, 2009)

thing is, if one of his students was visiting your MI dojo, there would be something or another that they couldn't believe you guys got away with.  not saying your class is bad, but each instructor has a different emphasis, & yours just happens to be punching.  which is a very, very good thing to emphasize.  

jf


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2009)

jarrod said:


> thing is, if one of his students was visiting your MI dojo, there would be something or another that they couldn't believe you guys got away with.  not saying your class is bad, but each instructor has a different emphasis, & yours just happens to be punching.  which is a very, very good thing to emphasize.
> 
> jf



Yep, yep, 100% agree.  We have had a couple of visiting students at my own dojo.  One was a great guy, he was trained differently, but he adapted to our way - our sensei said _"When you get back home, make sure you do things the way YOUR sensei wants them done, but here we do it this way..."_

Another was someone who had been trained in a different style, and she did NOT want to do things the Isshinryu way, kept trying to correct our sensei.  NOT the kind of visitor I want to be - I want to leave a good impression when I leave, and have people think highly of my sensei because of my behavior, not the other way around!


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## bigmoe (Jul 2, 2009)

Bill why would you not be a orange in the school that your training in in nc.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 2, 2009)

bigmoe said:


> Bill why would you not be a orange in the school that your training in in nc.



Different standards for each belt.

My dojo does not do yellow belts - we go straight from white to orange.  Our requirements are:

15 basic upper body exercises, 6 lower body exercises.
Basic Japanese names for all 15 and 6, count to ten in Japanese.
Taikioku Kata 
Sanchin Kata

The dojo I am visiting is:

15 basic upper body exercises, 9 lower body exercises.
Seisan Kata
Seiuchin Kata

I am mostly done learning Seisan, but I do not know Seiuchin at all.  This dojo does not seem to stress learning Japanese, except they use Japanese terms for belts (and they have a Yellow belt rank, which we do not).

Mostly just different katas.  We learn Sanchin first, they learn it next to last.


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## bigmoe (Jul 3, 2009)

There you go Bill they just teach there kata in different order. So look at it this way- you probally know more japanese than them might understand the kata better might even know the back side of the kata understand what the kata means thats why maybe you have been promoted.AS you said before you have very expreienced black belts where you train so dont think that you dont think you dont meet there standards.Remember i have been around  for a while and a lot of people i know out rank me but they dont have the knowledge that i have belts dont mean a lot


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## tallgeese (Jul 7, 2009)

That's cool.  

I always enjoy working with guys from other schools.  Not only do you get a different approach and see things from another viewpoint, but you also get a different set of energy from the guys you train with there.

We can all get a little inbred after a time and things like that go a long way to combating it.


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## terryl965 (Jul 7, 2009)

That is great Bill:ultracool


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 7, 2009)

Last night was my second visit to the dojo, and again I learned more.  Many things are different from my home dojo.  Some things I noticed:

* Because the class size is bigger, we break up into smaller groups after warmups, and each goes off and does their own thing.  I got grouped with a 14-year-old blue belt to run myself and a white belt (who has been training for 12 years) through Seisan.

* The warmup exerises are considerably different - much more stretching, and some in ways I've never stretched before. I hurt!  I will be taking some of these stretching exercises home with me, though.

* The class in general is much more informal.  We bowed in at the beginning, but at the end, people just kind of drifted off.  Class was supposed to end at 9, but at 9:30, I was still doing Seisan, and wondering where everybody went.  I finally asked, and got a shrug in response.  People just leave when they feel like it.  If you keep going, oh well.

* There are several mechanical differences.  The seisan blocks and punches are practiced from a fighting stance and not a practice stance - that is, turned to the side instead of head-on.  More 'realistic' in that sense, but not what I'm used to.  The back-fist is delivered from an upper-body block instead of straight up to the ear and then snapped forward.  I think that's ineffective, but what do I know?

Sensei was careful to tell me that I should not mess up my training by trying to hard to do it their way, as my own sensei would probably not approve, but I think I can handle doing it there way while I'm here and switching back to my 'own' way once I'm back in Michigan.

Hard training, I ache all over this morning.  Wish the drive wasn't quite so far from my house, but it is what it is.

And still, I have to fight back the urge to 'correct' the white belts who throw the sloppiest punches I"ve ever seen.  All speed and no control, no power.  In fact, the only good kata I've seen comes from sensei himself.  But it is not my place to say anything, so I won't.  I have to remember to be a good guest.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 7, 2009)

> Sensei was careful to tell me that I should not mess up my training by trying to hard to do it their way, as my own sensei would probably not approve


Smart man and good advise

When we visit other schools we are their guests and should try to do things their way unless told otherwise. It is not our place to correct their students on anything unless we are asked for suggestions. Even then we must be intelligent enough not to insult their way of doing thing.
Enjoy your workouts there and learn as much about their system as you can.


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## jks9199 (Jul 7, 2009)

The rule is simple:  When you're visiting, you're in their house.  You do things their way.

If it's so far off from the way you have been taught and what you've learned that you can't adapt -- then it's time for you to leave.

My teacher tells of how he once was attending a series of monthly, inter-style black belt only classes.  As the seminar instructor was correcting him on something that he'd worked long and hard to get right under his regular teacher, my teacher realized that he had plenty of stuff to work on and get right from his own teacher before he went working on stuff from somebody else, and never returned to the seminar.


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## sfs982000 (Oct 20, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> The rule is simple: When you're visiting, you're in their house. You do things their way.
> 
> If it's so far off from the way you have been taught and what you've learned that you can't adapt -- then it's time for you to leave.
> 
> My teacher tells of how he once was attending a series of monthly, inter-style black belt only classes. As the seminar instructor was correcting him on something that he'd worked long and hard to get right under his regular teacher, my teacher realized that he had plenty of stuff to work on and get right from his own teacher before he went working on stuff from somebody else, and never returned to the seminar.


 
Well put.  I love to dojo hop when I travel but I agree you follow the rules of the dojo you're in regardless.  I've always personally picked up great tips from where ever I've gone.


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## David43515 (Oct 21, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Last night was my second visit to the dojo, and again I learned more. Many things are different from my home dojo. Some things I noticed:
> 
> 
> 
> * There are several mechanical differences. The seisan blocks and punches are practiced from a fighting stance and not a practice stance - that is, turned to the side instead of head-on. More 'realistic' in that sense, but not what I'm used to. The back-fist is delivered from an upper-body block instead of straight up to the ear and then snapped forward. I think that's ineffective, but what do I know?


 
Not ineffective, just different. Drawing back to the ear before striking gives you more room to build up power, but snapping it out from blocking position is faster because you`re blocking and striking with one movment. Each has it`s benfit, but neither one is "the one way" to do it all the time.


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## grydth (Oct 21, 2009)

This can very often be an enlightening experience.... even if sometimes it only confirms your satisfaction with your own dojo. 

My wife and I practice different styles of Tai Chi; I go to a different dojo than my kids do. This gives us lots of family time to compare and contrast techniques.

On a personal note: Good to see you are apparently getting some together time - I won't see my wife again until December.


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