# hung gar vs. kenpo--tiger/crane form



## punisher73 (Aug 31, 2004)

If anyone is familiar with these two versions of the Tiger/Crane set, what, if any differences are there in these two versions?


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## Blindside (Aug 31, 2004)

Well to start off with, there are more than two, there are several variations from the Hung Gar schools alone.  That being said, the kenpo version I learned doesn't look a whole lot like the three Hung Gar versions that I have seen.  I would have to go out and review some old tape to give you a better answer, sorry.

Lamont


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## Doc (Aug 31, 2004)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Well to start off with, there are more than two, there are several variations from the Hung Gar schools alone.  That being said, the kenpo version I learned doesn't look a whole lot like the three Hung Gar versions that I have seen.  I would have to go out and review some old tape to give you a better answer, sorry.
> 
> Lamont



I aqgree with you sir. Many versions including the "Chinese Kenpo" version, and I can't remember any of them anymore.


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## HG1 (Sep 14, 2006)

I didn't know Kenpo had a tiger/crane form - interesting.  I'd like to see it.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 14, 2006)

It got borrowed somewhere along the line by the kenpo people.  I'm not sure exactly who or when, but I think sometime in the 1950s or 1960s.

Tracy kenpo version is pretty bad, from what I have seen.  Not just that it is different from the Hung Gar versions that I have seen and learned, but I think a whole lot that was good about the original form got lost, the movement lost its quality, and it is actually pretty junky.  It is available thru Tracys schools, but not for free.  I doubt there would be any point in you spending money on it, just out of a sense of curiosity.  Just let it go.  If you ever meet someone who does it, ask them to show you.  But don't spend money on it.


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## Hung (Sep 14, 2006)

HG1 said:


> I didn't know Kenpo had a tiger/crane form - interesting. I'd like to see it.


Kenpo's Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen, so would I.
Hung King


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## Seabrook (Sep 16, 2006)

I have a black sash in kung fu, and practice a hung gar version of the Tiger and Crane all of the time (called "Fu Hok Surng Ying"). It is one of my favorite forms. 

I have seen the Tracy version of Tiger and Crane performed, and to be honest, I am not very fussy about it, particularly the crane section. 

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Shrewsbury (Sep 18, 2006)

The original version from the Tracy's system was pretty decent, but much different from Hun Gar. Tracy added flash and let it be modified numerous times and yes lost much of the essential gung fu from it.


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## evenflow1121 (Sep 18, 2006)

There are various lineages to Hung Gar, but the "Man Taming the Tiger" Form, is quite different than the Kenpo Tiger/Crane Set


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## Shrewsbury (Sep 18, 2006)

> Man Taming the Tiger


 
I would imagine you are reffering to gung gee fuk fu kuen, taming the tiger in an I shape pattern. this is the foundational hun gar set and is not related to the tiger crane set of hun gar, these two are much different.

To me the main differences between the kenpo and hun gar versions are kicking, stances, and intent.


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## evenflow1121 (Sep 18, 2006)

Shrewsbury said:


> I would imagine you are reffering to gung gee fuk fu kuen, taming the tiger in an I shape pattern. this is the foundational hun gar set and is not related to the tiger crane set of hun gar, these two are much different.
> 
> To me the main differences between the kenpo and hun gar versions are kicking, stances, and intent.


 


Nvm you guys were referring to the Fu Hok Shuen form, the basic fundamental forms, yeah its different from the Tracy set.

Sorry about the confusion.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 18, 2006)

The only time I saw the Tracy version was on their reference video tapes that were made back in the early 1980s.  It wasn't Al doing the form, but rather some other, younger guy.  Granted, it was purposely done at about half speed and power, but it just looked to me like it was really really bad.  I suppose perhaps someone could perform it better, but these were the offical tapes put out by Tracys, to be used as reference for their instructors.  Given that, I can only assume Tracys considered it a good example.

I never learned the Tracy version.  My instructors felt it wasn't good enough, so they made modifications based on Chiu Chi Ling's instructional video tape that was released in the 1970s or 1980s.  Ultimately, I dropped the form altogether, until I found someone from a legitimate Hung Gar lineage who could help me learn it correctly.  

My sifu that I study with now trained under a student of Sifu Kwok Wing Lam, in Sunnyvale California.  Sifu Wing Lam studied under Chiu Chi Ling's father and mother.  Anyway, he recently taught me a version of the form that is fairly different from what I had seen before, but he could teach me the quality of the movement much better.  I have a lot of work to do on it before it will be good, but at least I feel I have the proper tools now to understand it.


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## Seabrook (Sep 18, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> The only time I saw the Tracy version was on their reference video tapes that were made back in the early 1980s. It wasn't Al doing the form, but rather some other, younger guy. Granted, it was purposely done at about half speed and power, but it just looked to me like it was really really bad. I suppose perhaps someone could perform it better, but these were the offical tapes put out by Tracys, to be used as reference for their instructors. Given that, I can only assume Tracys considered it a good example.


 
Michael,

I, too, saw this video although I don't study Tracy Kenpo. A Tracy's Kenpo Karate black belt that I know let me borrow the video, and I have to say, I thought it was really poorly done.

JMO.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 18, 2006)

Seabrook said:


> Michael,
> 
> I, too, saw this video although I don't study Tracy Kenpo. A Tracy's Kenpo Karate black belt that I know let me borrow the video, and I have to say, I thought it was really poorly done.
> 
> JMO.


 
Good to hear some other feedback on this.  If you have seen it done better, that is interesting to know.  I would like to find someone who knows it, to see how they do it.  Would definitely be better to see it done live.  Thx.


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## AdamB (Sep 19, 2006)

This is not the form as I was taught at my tracy school. You can see him striking with open palm...
Most of the form follows the same path but there are variations.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 19, 2006)

AdamB said:


> This is not the form as I was taught at my tracy school. You can see him striking with open palm...
> Most of the form follows the same path but there are variations.


 

This one looks to be closer to the Hung Gar version (or at least one of them, anyway).

This is actually a good deal different from the one on Tracy's video.  If your instructor taught you something close to this version, then either he learned it from a different source, or Tracys made some changes since they made their video in the early 1980s.


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