# Worth dying for?



## Paul_D (Apr 26, 2017)

Although you can of course find the full story easily enough online, I have removed the names as it is the action, rather than the poor victims that form the basis of the thread.

_Police have launched a murder investigation after a man was killed by thieves who stole his car.
Officers were  called to an address on ********** **** in ******** at 3am this morning._

_Police_ _say that the residents at the house, ******* ******* and his wife were awoken by a loud bang downstairs. Mr ******* went down to see what was happening and shortly afterwards shouting was heard from the rear of the property._

_He was then found in the parking area at the rear of the address with serious injuries. He was taken to hospital but sadly died a short time later. _

_His car, a ***** **** **, had been stolen._

Things like this happen all over the world all the time, and whilst it is perhaps a naturally unthinking reaction to try to protect your possessions, the reality is that is are they worth dying for?  If you can afford nice things it is reasonable to assume you can afford insurance to replace them if they are lost or stolen.  Most possessions can be replaced, where as you or your loved ones cannot.

It is of course easy after the fact to say that victim in this case should have stayed inside the house and called the police.  Perhaps he would never have gotten his car back as it would have been wrecked or torched before the police found it, but his insurance would replace it.  They can’t replace him.  But that is why it is important to think about such scenarios _in advance_, So that if they happen you stick to your plan,  in order to subdue your natural reaction to fight/protect what is yours. 

For example, if your teen has a smart phone what would they do if someone tried to take it.   Are they worried about being in trouble with you for losing it, or have you explained to them they should hand it over, as you want them home safely?  Have you thought about what you would do if you came downstairs and found someone stealing your car/in your shed?

The time to put a plan in pace if before, not wish a loved one (or have a loved one wish you)  had acted differently with hindsight.

It reminds me of a time when a student asked me if we practiced any knife defences.  I told him there were a couple in the next grade, and then asked him why he was asking.  He told me he had had his bicycle stolen twice, at knife point.  I then asked him if he wanted to know what to do if it happened again, and he said he did.

I told him that if it did happen again he should hand his bike over and then go home and tell his parents.  Whilst he could learn the techniques in the syllabus, and whilst they make work the first, second or even third time, the consequences of the one time they go wrong were significant.  Although his parents would perhaps be mad his bike had been stolen again, they would rather have to replace bike to replace than a son.

We never saw him again.  To this day I still don’t know if that is because he had never thought about it that way before and agreed, or if he thought I was an idiot.


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2017)

The victim was an ex Royal Navy submariner, the mind-set of military people is to go forward into danger not skulk around indoors so the likelihood of him staying indoors was zero I'm afraid. I agree that a car is not worth dying for, I thought that at the time but we don't know the full story yet, it will come out in the trial, but he may not have being trying to stop them as much as they attacked him for being there. We'll have to wait and see as they have the suspects in custody.


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## jobo (Apr 26, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> The victim was an ex Royal Navy submariner, the mind-set of military people is to go forward into danger not skulk around indoors so the likelihood of him staying indoors was zero I'm afraid. I agree that a car is not worth dying for, I thought that at the time but we don't know the full story yet, it will come out in the trial, but he may not have being trying to stop them as much as they attacked him for being there. We'll have to wait and see as they have the suspects in custody.


they ran him over with his own car, which suggests he stood in the way to stop them driving off


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## jobo (Apr 26, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Although you can of course find the full story easily enough online, I have removed the names as it is the action, rather than the poor victims that form the basis of the thread.
> 
> _Police have launched a murder investigation after a man was killed by thieves who stole his car.
> Officers were  called to an address on ********** **** in ******** at 3am this morning._
> ...



its a good point, I stood in the dark armed with a hammer watching three youths casing my car, they didn't try to steal it, so I'm not on a life sentance

I make it a general rule not to carry anything that can't be easily replaced, that way its a simple assessment of if fighting back is a good idea, that than an emotional one of they are not having my grand dad watch


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> they ran him over with his own car, which suggests he stood in the way to stop them driving off



Depends on where he was, they could have driven off a little then reversed back to hit him. They could have aimed the car at him deliberately, we'll see what the charges are.


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## jobo (Apr 26, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Depends on where he was, they could have driven off a little then reversed back to hit him. They could have aimed the car at him deliberately, we'll see what the charges are.


its not looking good so far, they have released the arrested guy on bail, which isn't common for a murder/ manslaughter charge if they have even a bit of hard evidence


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> its not looking good so far, they have released the arrested guy on bail, which isn't common for a murder/ manslaughter charge if they have even a bit of hard evidence



No, that certainly isn't good, unless he was an accomplice rather than the driver.


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## jobo (Apr 26, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> No, that certainly isn't good, unless he was an accomplice rather than the driver.


news flash, someone else has been arrested


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 26, 2017)

I worked as a police dispatcher for a major metropolitan police department once, a long time ago.  A fellow dispatcher's husband heard a noise outside, went out to confront the guys who were stealing his car.  They beat him and then drove over him with his own car, killing him.

"Worth your life?"  Nope.  I'll stand back, get a good description, and smile and wave as they drive away in my pride and joy.  I saw how my fellow dispatcher suffered.  I would not put my wife through that.  The rest of you have to make that decision for yourselves.  But 'macho' gets more people killed than just about anything but booze.  Do what you think best, I guess.


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> But 'macho' gets more people killed than just about anything but booze. Do what you think best, I guess.



I wouldn't say that the ex Navy chap was 'macho' but as you know yourself ex Service people are more naturally inclined to not fear taking some action where others would not which most times works fine. However in this case we don't know what has happened whether he took on the thieves or as you say stood back to get the details but was run down anyway. We do know he went to see what a noise was, it could have been anything and I can guarantee even without knowing him that he would have gone to see if it was someone needing help/a fire/accident etc. He wouldn't have ignored it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 26, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't say that the ex Navy chap was 'macho' but as you know yourself ex Service people are more naturally inclined to not fear taking some action where others would not which most times works fine. However in this case we don't know what has happened whether he took on the thieves or as you say stood back to get the details but was run down anyway. We do know he went to see what a noise was, it could have been anything and I can guarantee even without knowing him that he would have gone to see if it was someone needing help/a fire/accident etc. He wouldn't have ignored it.



I was actually referring to similar discussions here on MT in the past, with some choosing to chime in with their macho descriptions of their manly exploits and how they would rather die on their feet than live on their knees, etc, along with the accusations that anyone who would not fight to the death over every crime, every slight, every disrespectful statement, is clearly a victim and would choose to beg for his life on his knees rather than defend himself, etc.  You were here for those stupid and ugly conversations.  I was never sure if the people making those statements were just trolling for responses, or if they were actually that testosterone-driven.


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I was never sure if the people making those statements were just trolling for responses, or if they were actually that testosterone-driven



Either of those! Still, they would be understandable, I always worry about the ones who actually believe what they write.


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## CB Jones (Apr 26, 2017)

Just my 2 cents:

I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees, etc, and I believe in fighting to the death over every crime, every slight, every disrespectful statement, because if you don't you are clearly a victim and would choose to beg for you life on your knees rather than defend yourself, etc.

Just how I roll.


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