# The High Art of Tactical Folding Knife Deployment!



## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

I almost always have a folding knife on my person due to needing it for various jobs.  It is with what I do simply a necessity.  With that being as it is through the years I have come up with many way's to tactically deploy a folding knife for a life threatening personal protection situation.  From stepping backwards and deploying and then moving offline to moving at a 45% angle backwards and offline to moving sideways and to moving forward.  Deploying with one hand or two hands and using the extra hand or elbow (if a two handed deployment) to keep space.  I also practice Iaido so my deployment in many ways is similar particularly forward in deliver a cut while deploying or angled 45% and delivering a cut to the attacking opponents tool bearing hand.  So many variations and I am always looking for more.

So how do you practice deploying your folding knife?


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## arnisador (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't practice deploying it nearly enough. I know I should, but it's always an afterthought!


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## MarkBarlow (Jul 12, 2007)

My concept of training is very similar.  Luckily, I have a private office and can practice while on the phone or during mental health breaks.  I'm of the opinion, if you don't spend at least 15-20 minutes a day practicing deployment and use, you shouldn't think about using a knife for self defense.  

It reminds me of my mother who kept a revolver in the bottom of her sock drawer, never once fired it and didn't understand why I didn't think she was sufficiently protected. Buying a knife and sticking it in your pocket doesn't automatically give you the ability to use it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

MarkBarlow said:


> My concept of training is very similar. Luckily, I have a private office and can practice while on the phone or during mental health breaks. I'm of the opinion, if you don't spend at least 15-20 minutes a day practicing deployment and use, you shouldn't think about using a knife for self defense.
> 
> It reminds me of my mother who kept a revolver in the bottom of her sock drawer, never once fired it and didn't understand why I didn't think she was sufficiently protected. Buying a knife and sticking it in your pocket doesn't automatically give you the ability to use it.


 
Absolutely Mark that is a really good point in that if you are going to have a tool ie. folding knife for this thread then you need to sufficiently practice deployment and technique so that in the moment you will be able to access and use it.


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## exile (Jul 12, 2007)

Very important, especially, to know exactly where things are on the knife by feel. I have either a button or a pin on all my street-legal knifes, and they are designed with the pen-clip so that, when you withdraw the knife, your fingers are in the right place to access the opening aid and the knife is correctly oriented. But if you don't practice getting the `feel' of pull-access-open (usually with a wrist flick), it's really astonishing how awkward it can be. And this is independent of your body motion to a fighting position while deploying...


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

Training to deploy folders, & pressure testing it, is just as important as training any other skill. My every day carry knives are almost always Cold Steel, so I buy cheaper knives at the parking lot sale, dull them, and use them to practice drawing so I don't wear out my edc's. I know that's not an option for everyone but alot of companies make good trainers.
To me, if you can't effectively deploy a tool, you might as well leave it at home. It's doing you no good.
Practicing drawing, unless you see an attack coming or just happen to already have the tool out, will need to be realistically practiced after first contact.
Use the other hand/arm and footwork to create space and take the deploying hand away from the opponent since many arts practice techniques to prevent someone from drawing weapons.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

That being said, I most often use a thumb-assisted wrist flick to deploy, but I practice a two-handed draw for control & stability. I've see too many people throw their tools or botch the one-handed draw&deploy, when spending a second to simply perform a two-handed deploy would prevent all of this.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

I have a dozen or so training folding knives but lately I have been using this model because the _*size/feel*_ is almost identical to my everyday carry which is a CRKT. Plus I get them really cheap and they hold up well under the pressure that I put them through.

http://www.centurymartialarts.com/D...itemguid=9b266311-8b98-44c3-91e1-c33ed5cb441b


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> That being said, I most often use a thumb-assisted wrist flick to deploy, but I practice a two-handed draw for control & stability. I've see too many people throw their tools or botch the one-handed draw&deploy, when spending a second to simply perform a two-handed deploy would prevent all of this.


 
Absolutely the two handed deploy is a safer bet when the pressure is on and especially if you get an adrenaline dump.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 12, 2007)

My present folder has a thumb lever on it but it still opens (and stays open) on it's own with a quick flick of the wrist and I like that. The technique I use varies with the present situation. But if it's a stand-off type scenario and I can see there's no other alternative but to utilize the weapon then it will be opened just behind my hip and rotated back to where the tip is pointed upwards. My attackers may (or may not) hear the click of the blade locking in, at that point it won't matter. It's on.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> My attackers may (or may not) hear the click of the blade locking in, at that point it won't matter. It's on.



We were talking about this in class and we came to the conclusion that the click from a forceful opening should be something that you seek out in your deployment during a time of potential adrenal rush, since your perceptions might not be so sensitive at that point to feel the lock in the hand. That loud *CLICK* , however, is something that you can train to recognize as meaning the tool is now safely deployed, locked open, and ready for use.
& perhaps if you're not sure about the lock, open with a slash or chopping attack, to guarantee the lock.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

You should also train to deploy with no click or to minimize and mask it so that no one will ever know.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> You should also train to deploy with no click or to minimize and mask it so that no one will ever know.



Certainly  :ultracool


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 12, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> You should also train to deploy with no click or to minimize and mask it so that no one will ever know.




While our own Paul and I were at a seminar training wiht some knife work. We also worked some ground work. We would deply while in the guard and or mount or where ever. I had my Emerson CQC-7B trainer with me. It allowed me to practice with what I carry. I could deploy and thumb open. I could also deploy one handed and flick to open. I could also use the wave the pull and open. The last two usually had the nice "click" as mentioned. So while Paul was in Mount pounding on my face I knew it was open. The issue like you said was so did he. 

I carry my trainer with me and practice with it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 12, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> While our own Paul and I were at a seminar training wiht some knife work. We also worked some ground work. We would deply while in the guard and or mount or where ever. I had my Emerson CQC-7B trainer with me. It allowed me to practice with what I carry. I could deploy and thumb open. I could also deploy one handed and flick to open. I could also use the wave the pull and open. The last two usually had the nice "click" as mentioned. So while Paul was in Mount pounding on my face I knew it was open. The issue like you said was so did he.
> 
> I carry my trainer with me and practice with it.


 
Absolutely being able to deploy when grappling or trapping or once a joint lock has been achieved is equally important.  There are other deployment methods that I personally practice after a strike whether it be a hand strike or a low line kick.  Simply put you need to practice in multiple varieties and ways so that if you ever need to deploy a tactical folding knife that you will be able to.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 12, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> You should also train to deploy with no click or to minimize and mask it so that no one will ever know.


I do that too when I reach a state of high alert but yet haven't been approached or attacked that I'm able to open the blade with my thumb and then catch the blade lock before it clicks and able to do it all with one hand. Takes a little practice but that's easy enough to do when you're sitting there watching tv or riding in the back seat of the car.


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## Monadnock (Jul 12, 2007)

I don't think I can recommend a folder as a primary bladed weapon. The fixed blade is going to be faster in all cases. As for legalities, always be sure you are carrying a legal blade according to your jurisdiction.

Folders are popular, but are just not as good as a fixed blade, IMHO. If you carry with defense in mind, I think they are 2nd rate.

Fixed blades are live immediately after the draw
More fixed blades are double edged
More fixed blades are built better for thrusting
More fixed blades have a better grip

I'm sure there are good "tactical" folders (love that term) but if self defense is your primary concern, why start second rate?


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## MA-Caver (Jul 12, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> I don't think I can recommend a folder as a primary bladed weapon. The fixed blade is going to be faster in all cases. As for legalities, always be sure you are carrying a legal blade according to your jurisdiction.
> 
> Folders are popular, but are just not as good as a fixed blade, IMHO. If you carry with defense in mind, I think they are 2nd rate.
> 
> ...


Well for one thing it's all I can afford right now and for another thing a fixed isn't that easy (or comfortable) to conceal. Where as a pocket clipped folder does very nicely ... if people LOOK they'll see that I've a knife in my back pocket but it's not as "alarming" as say a fixed blade in a scabbard/sheath hanging off my belt (which I rarely use anyway). 
I do agree with your points of having a fixed. But I feel okay with the tact folder (yeah I like that term too  ) for the time being. :asian:


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## Monadnock (Jul 12, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Well for one thing it's all I can afford right now and for another thing a fixed isn't that easy (or comfortable) to conceal. Where as a pocket clipped folder does very nicely ... if people LOOK they'll see that I've a knife in my back pocket but it's not as "alarming" as say a fixed blade in a scabbard/sheath hanging off my belt (which I rarely use anyway).
> I do agree with your points of having a fixed. But I feel okay with the tact folder (yeah I like that term too  ) for the time being. :asian:


 
Agreed on the visibility thing. But it is the same with carrying firearms. If we apply the same logic, a small, comfortable fixed blade sure seems like the way to go. And when seconds count, and adrenaline kicks in, the margin for error increases while your time decreases. Good topic though!


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## bujuts (Jul 12, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I almost always have a folding knife on my person due to needing it for various jobs.  It is with what I do simply a necessity.  With that being as it is through the years I have come up with many way's to tactically deploy a folding knife for a life threatening personal protection situation.  From stepping backwards and deploying and then moving offline to moving at a 45% angle backwards and offline to moving sideways and to moving forward.  Deploying with one hand or two hands and using the extra hand or elbow (if a two handed deployment) to keep space.  I also practice Iaido so my deployment in many ways is similar particularly forward in deliver a cut while deploying or angled 45% and delivering a cut to the attacking opponents tool bearing hand.  So many variations and I am always looking for more.
> 
> So how do you practice deploying your folding knife?



I carry a folder as well, but its in my left pocket (I'm right handed).  I use it for standard purposes, as you do.  Tactically speaking, the problem with folded is blades are - well?  _they fold_.

I use the knife the reverse grip, and the use of a folding blade on any reverse motion in the reverse grip (trapping, etc.), you may end up missing a pinky - I don't trust any mechanical action like that.  So, I carry a fixed blade in my right pocket, some times the rear pocket, sometimes the front.  Its a small Gerber Guardian.  What I really like is not the blade so much, its the small clasping scabbard it resides in.  Front or back pocket, it reveals only about 3/4" of the handle, enough for the webbing of my hand between the thumb and index finger.

I practice thumbing the handle, which has a slightly coke bottle grip, all the time.  On the draw, the corner of the scabbard catches on the pocket seam - every time.  Its a quick draw, the weapon comes into battery quickly and succinctly.  Like a gun, the draw is as important as the use, I believe.

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 12, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> I don't think I can recommend a folder as a primary bladed weapon. The fixed blade is going to be faster in all cases. As for legalities, always be sure you are carrying a legal blade according to your jurisdiction.
> 
> Folders are popular, but are just not as good as a fixed blade, IMHO. If you carry with defense in mind, I think they are 2nd rate.
> 
> Fixed blades are live immediately after the draw



True



> More fixed blades are double edged



Yes, and daggers are illegal in many places. It's a killing implement, according to the law, period. Good luck justifying your carrying it.



> More fixed blades are built better for thrusting



True. Of course, if it has a handguard to facilitate thrusting, then it's probably illegal in many places.



> More fixed blades have a better grip



True



> I'm sure there are good "tactical" folders (love that term) but if self defense is your primary concern, why start second rate?



Mostly because where I live (CA), fixed blades are vastly more regulated than folders.

I would love to wear a barong or a large bowie all the time, but it just isn't gonna happen 'round here. Yeah, I love my Right to Bear Arms, or what's left of it... 

:soapbox:


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 12, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> I don't think I can recommend a folder as a primary bladed weapon. The fixed blade is going to be faster in all cases. As for legalities, always be sure you are carrying a legal blade according to your jurisdiction.
> 
> Folders are popular, but are just not as good as a fixed blade, IMHO. If you carry with defense in mind, I think they are 2nd rate.
> 
> ...




No Dual edge blades in my area.
Fixed blades while hunting are accepted but to just carry, they have to be realitively small so I use the folder that fits my hand. 

If I could carry a fixed blade that fit my hand I would no problem at all.


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## Monadnock (Jul 13, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> I would love to wear a barong or a large bowie all the time, but it just isn't gonna happen 'round here. Yeah, I love my Right to Bear Arms, or what's left of it...
> 
> :soapbox:


 
Meanwhile, the bad guys who can't pick up a gun are carrying machete's.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2007)

I think that anyone who had a choice and could legally justify carrying a fixed blade would.  Fixed blades are simply a better tool than a folding knife.  However for many due to their states laws a fixed blade is not always an option.  Where a folder of proper length is almost always okay.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2007)

Monadnock said:


> Meanwhile, the bad guys who can't pick up a gun are carrying machete's.


 
That truely is the way it works.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2007)

Now for the desk jockey's or the profesional who sits behind a desk.  Due you practice deployment undeneath your desk and with a concealed movement?  I have several practitioner's who actually work in a high risk job that has high risk at their desk.  They practice being able to deploy, quietly and concealed in case the situation arises.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 13, 2007)

I carry a folder because it's more useful at my work. As far as self-defense goes, I have trained and trained a reverse grip deployment that works well, and quickly. One of the things I do in my practice is being able to cut on the draw. Saves quite a few seconds if you can do it right and gives an attacker less time to see the knife. Plus, quite frankly, if you have time for a two-handed deployment, you're likely not in a defensive situation; you're fixin to enter a fight.


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## MarkBarlow (Jul 13, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Now for the desk jockey's or the profesional who sits behind a desk.  Due you practice deployment undeneath your desk and with a concealed movement?  I have several practitioner's who actually work in a high risk job that has high risk at their desk.  They practice being able to deploy, quietly and concealed in case the situation arises.



I have a push dagger taped to the bottom of my desk.  Easily accessible and completely concealed.  I don't want to count on having time to stand and draw my folder.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 13, 2007)

MarkBarlow said:


> I have a push dagger taped to the bottom of my desk. Easily accessible and completely concealed. I don't want to count on having time to stand and draw my folder.


 
Well I will say this I like your choice of tool as I am a *huge* push dagger trainer and advocate.  So that is definately a great option to have available. (for short bladed work that is the best as it is almost impossible to disarm someone trained let alone untrained who has a push dagger) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




For the practitioner's I cited above that is just not an option for them due to work rules, legality here in Michigan, etc.  So they are stuck with a folding knife and we work around it by practicing concealment, misdirection, etc. when opening.


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## arnisador (Jul 13, 2007)

Fixed makes sense in every sense except practicality, unfortunately.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 13, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Now for the desk jockey's or the profesional who sits behind a desk. Due you practice deployment undeneath your desk and with a concealed movement? I have several practitioner's who actually work in a high risk job that has high risk at their desk. They practice being able to deploy, quietly and concealed in case the situation arises.




I had a pipe in at my desk to practice "Stick" work. I have carried a pocket knife/tool at work, but sometimes there is a no knife/tool policy and other times there is. If someone cuts themselves, then the tool is not allowed.  Later they realize that it is a tool and the razor blade box openers are allowed so are the pocket knives or the leatherman/with multiple tools. 

I practice in the car in my truck at my desk. But that is just me, and being slightly obsessive compulsive is my defense.


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## Doc_Jude (Jul 15, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> That truely is the way it works.



But how often are they trained in their use? That's the question. 
We folks train hard, & that's the way that I want to keep it! 
With that in mind, I do appreciate my right to carry an umbrella or cane (I have a good excuse to walk with a cane, or at least on paper. My physical therapist was very good!)


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 16, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> But how often are they trained in their use? That's the question.
> We folks train hard, & that's the way that I want to keep it!
> With that in mind, I do appreciate my right to carry an umbrella or cane (I have a good excuse to walk with a cane, or at least on paper. My physical therapist was very good!)


 
Well that is an advantage that we have.  So I am with you that I will continue to train and seek out any advantage that I can.  Ie. folding knive, cane, firearm, etc.  That way I will hopefully have the edge in the moment with some street criminal if something comes to pass.


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## Kage-Ronin (Jul 22, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I have a dozen or so training folding knives but lately I have been using this model because the _*size/feel*_ is almost identical to my everyday carry which is a CRKT. Plus I get them really cheap and they hold up well under the pressure that I put them through.
> 
> http://www.centurymartialarts.com/D...itemguid=9b266311-8b98-44c3-91e1-c33ed5cb441b


 

Mr VanCise,

Thanks for that link! I have priced these trainers at upwards of $45 - $80, depending on the catalog. 
This is the cheapest I have seen these yet. Got one on order now!

~ Rob


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## Cruentus (Aug 26, 2007)

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would revive it just to mention that we have been touting a 2-handed opening now that we pioneered for quite sometime as the most practical opening method in most circumstances. That is my opinion, which is shared by many now a days from what I understand. The advantages far outway the disadvantages. Just something to think about while your training! 

C.


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## arnisador (Aug 27, 2007)

*Cruentus* demonstrated his system for me a while back, and it does make a lot of sense.


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## Doc_Jude (Aug 28, 2007)

Some Details?


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## Cruentus (Aug 29, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> Some Details?


 
Hi Doc. I'll paste a good explination from another forum (FMAtalk, actually). It is hard to explain online, but hopefully you and everyone will get the gist. I know that I really should post a video clip or something of that nature, but honestly it is not at the top of my to-do list at the moment.

Keep in mind that I mention this online really because I believe in the method due to what I have seen when we've tested the material, and I think that it is something that really could make the difference if one were forced to use a knife in self-defense. I don't usually "give away" our methods on an online forum because not only does it open us up to criticism of the destructive rather then constructive kind, but frankly, it is something that people are willing to pay for in an instructional format. But, it is just an opening method - not a big deal on the difficulty scale technique-wise, and for one to take or leave accordingly.

So, take it or leave it, and if you think it is useful, then by all means add it or something similar to your curriculum. 



> _First off, I will disclaim that I don't want to insult anyone here. I know that the common ways taught for folder deployment in knife combatives and martial arts are mostly one handed methods. I also don't expect everyone here to fully understand the exact method that I am promoting because it is proprietary to Tulisan Company. That is not to say that 2 handed methods haven't been used by others in the past, or that they won't be promoted by someone else in the future. It is just that we developed a specific two-handed method, it is what we prefer, and at the moment other knife combatives sources aren't promoting these methods (that I know of).
> 
> So, that said, I expect most people to disagree with me, and prefer 1-handed openers.
> 
> ...


 
C.


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