# Baton Legality.



## Hayden

I just recently got a collapisble baton for christmas. I live in Portland Oregon and am wondering about the legality of carrying one in public. If I did carry the baton it would be mounted in the shoulder strap of my messengerbag so it wouldnt be concealed.
I have tried to look for legality on some law website but it usually just leads me to something that is totaly unrelated, so thats why I am here.
Its a 21" if that helps. I am 18 by the way, I dont know if that affects things. Sorry for posting this in the knives section but there wasent a "blunt force trauma" section so I thought this was the best fit.
Thanks in advance to anyone who replies, any answer will be a good answer right now.


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## ArmorOfGod

I went to google.com and searched for "oregon illegal weapons baton" and found some sites. One is http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/or.txt

It says that they are illegal in lots of areas in your state including:



> "Public building" means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.


 
Click on that site and make sure I read that right.  Don't just take my word for it.

You need to call your local law authorities and simply ask if they are legal and ask which statutes apply to batons. If it is illegal, don't carry it. If someone jumps you and you use it, you end up in jail for a few months. That is not worth it.

Get a legal weapon. Find out what you can carry and do so. Get a handgun permit and carry one of those legally. Learn self-defense and carry pepper spray or a walking stick.

If batons are legal where you want to carry them, they are good weapons. Go call around to your local police station or court house and find out.

AoG


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## Carol

Seems to not be legal for carry under Oregon CCW laws.

A qualfied defense attorney in your area can advise you specifically, though.

166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

(2) Nothing in subsection (1) of this section applies to any peace officer as defined in ORS 133.005, whose duty it is to serve process or make arrests. Justice courts have concurrent jurisdiction to try any person charged with violating any of the provisions of subsection (1) of this section. [Amended by 1977 c.454 §1; 1985 c.543 §2; 1989 c.839 §21; 1999 c.1040 §15]


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## jks9199

Hayden said:


> I just recently got a collapisble baton for christmas. I live in Portland Oregon and am wondering about the legality of carrying one in public. If I did carry the baton it would be mounted in the shoulder strap of my messengerbag so it wouldnt be concealed.
> I have tried to look for legality on some law website but it usually just leads me to something that is totaly unrelated, so thats why I am here.
> Its a 21" if that helps. I am 18 by the way, I dont know if that affects things. Sorry for posting this in the knives section but there wasent a "blunt force trauma" section so I thought this was the best fit.
> Thanks in advance to anyone who replies, any answer will be a good answer right now.


Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer, nor am I providing legal guidance here.  You want specific legal guidance, talk to a lawyer in your state with experience in the subject matter.  You might be able to get guidance from your state attorney general's office, as well.  Take what I say at your own risk, and do your own research!

That said...

Let me first address the law in VA.  You could probably be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon if your actions warranted it, though it would be  a bit of a stretch.  Section 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia enumerates quite a few specific weapons as well as includes a catch all of "like kind" provision.  I think an argument could be made, based on other attendant circumstances that an expandable baton or even a baseball bat or truncheon could be "of like kind" as a blackjack.  Like I said -- it'd be a stretch.  I don't know that it would actually hold up in court, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it if the total circumstances said I _needed _to charge somebody.  I could also probably make a similar burglary tool argument, since they can be used to smash windows...  Either way -- I think a prosecutor would not have kind words for me unless I could really articulate why I made the charge, like catching a gangbanger that appears to be on the way to a fight.

Findlaw.com doesn't seem to have a link to Oregon's state code, and the link to the city of Portland isn't working.  You can try consulting your local police department, or the prosecutor's office, or the attorney general's office.

One simple rule of thumb about concealed weapons -- and I am most definitely not endorsing the idea of carrying them without proper authorization or license or when otherwise illegal! -- is that if it's concealed, NO ONE should know you have it...


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## MJS

Hayden said:


> I just recently got a collapisble baton for christmas. I live in Portland Oregon and am wondering about the legality of carrying one in public. If I did carry the baton it would be mounted in the shoulder strap of my messengerbag so it wouldnt be concealed.
> I have tried to look for legality on some law website but it usually just leads me to something that is totaly unrelated, so thats why I am here.
> Its a 21" if that helps. I am 18 by the way, I dont know if that affects things. Sorry for posting this in the knives section but there wasent a "blunt force trauma" section so I thought this was the best fit.
> Thanks in advance to anyone who replies, any answer will be a good answer right now.


 
You could also check with your local PD.  I'm sure they'd be abel to tell you if this was legal to carry.

Mike


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## tellner

The key is "concealed". I've walked out of the house (in Portland) with a switchblade and a flat sap and waved to the police. The sap was sticking out of my back pocket. The switchblade was carried by the pocket clip. They weren't concealed so they were legal as shul on Shabbos. Now if I'd traveled a few minutes North to Vancouver I would have been committing several felonies.


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## Hayden

ArmorOfGod said:


> I went to google.com and searched for "oregon illegal weapons baton" and found some sites. One is http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/or.txt
> 
> It says that they are illegal in lots of areas in your state including:
> 
> 
> 
> Click on that site and make sure I read that right.  Don't just take my word for it.
> 
> You need to call your local law authorities and simply ask if they are legal and ask which statutes apply to batons. If it is illegal, don't carry it. If someone jumps you and you use it, you end up in jail for a few months. That is not worth it.
> 
> Get a legal weapon. Find out what you can carry and do so. Get a handgun permit and carry one of those legally. Learn self-defense and carry pepper spray or a walking stick.
> 
> If batons are legal where you want to carry them, they are good weapons. Go call around to your local police station or court house and find out.
> 
> AoG



I dont think the handgun permit is a viable option, as I am not 21 and cannot purchase a handgun. I have had pepper spray but I lost it. And I cant get a walking stick because I bike everywhere (its portland what did you expect)
I read the site you posted and found it confusing. Do I need a permit to carry a folding knife? That dosent sound right.


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## wade

Go to www.packing.org and go to Oregon. If its a weapon and it's concealed you had best have a carry permit. If you go to Washington the same thing, you will need a carry permit in both states as they don't recognize each others permits. $60 in Oregon (I think), I'll know when I go to renew and $65 in Washington. Stay out of all federal building and schools. I agree with MJS, go to a police station and ask them, DO NOT take the weapon with you when you do.


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## Hayden

tellner said:


> The key is "concealed". I've walked out of the house (in Portland) with a switchblade and a flat sap and waved to the police. The sap was sticking out of my back pocket. The switchblade was carried by the pocket clip. They weren't concealed so they were legal as shul on Shabbos. Now if I'd traveled a few minutes North to Vancouver I would have been committing several felonies.



Yeah, my baton wouldnt be concealed, it would be  visible at all times right on my chest (unless I took my bag off and layed it on the floor or something)
Another main question I have is that I go to college and its my major commute during the day, would I be able to take the baton inside biulding on campus? Kinda defeats the purpose of having the baton if I cant even take it outside my house.


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## KenpoTex

Sounds like the question has been answered...

In general, the best way to find out this info is to find your state's weapons laws.  Most states' laws are accessible online.  

I'd be careful about just calling the PD or asking an officer.  Many of them know what they're talking about but I've talked to several cops and deputies in my area that didn't know the laws as well as I do (which is why I know the actual statute numbers and have a printout of the relevant portions in my car...just in case I ever catch any flak from an officer who doesn't know what he/she is talking about).


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## Hayden

kenpotex said:


> Sounds like the question has been answered...
> 
> In general, the best way to find out this info is to find your state's weapons laws.  Most states' laws are accessible online.
> 
> I'd be careful about just calling the PD or asking an officer.  Many of them know what they're talking about but I've talked to several cops and deputies in my area that didn't know the laws as well as I do (which is why I know the actual statute numbers and have a printout of the relevant portions in my car...just in case I ever catch any flak from an officer who doesn't know what he/she is talking about).



My quest has been answered, but with conflicting results. On one hand the article that was posted says I cant carry it anywhere, on the other hand I have people telling my they carry these types of things openly. Who do I believe?


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## bydand

Hayden said:


> My quest has been answered, but with conflicting results. On one hand the article that was posted says I cant carry it anywhere, on the other hand I have people telling my they carry these types of things openly. Who do I believe?



It sounds like both may be right.  Concealeld-not legal, in the open-legal except for in and around public buildings.  It appears the baton falls into a gray area, so take the advice of many here and check with the local authorities, Defense Lawyer would probably be better than the local PD.   You do have to be super diligent carrying ANY weapon.  What is in the open, can be covered with a shift of clothing, a pack flap, or any number of things making them a concealed weapon, no matter that they were in the open when you started out.  A covered weapon is a concealed weapon weather it is covered by accident or not.  Cannot stress enough, GET ADVICE FROM A LAWYER.  I'm not a lawyer and am not even particularly fond of lawyers (no offense to any who may be one here), but they do know the laws and if not off-hand, they know where to look and interpet what they find.


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## Brian R. VanCise

You also have one last problem beyond the laws in your State.  Many Universities will have multiple rules that they implement.  One of those is that you generally cannot have batons, handguns, etc. on property.  So if you are going to school and carrying a baton you may also face expulsion from school even if it is legal in your state.  I would contact an attorney or a prosecutor and get the low down on the laws in your State.  Then I would also contact the University and find out their rules and by laws.  Good luck.


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## SFC JeffJ

MJS said:


> You could also check with your local PD.  I'm sure they'd be abel to tell you if this was legal to carry.
> 
> Mike


At least around here, the Police and Sheriff Deputies aren't a very good resource to check on the legality of specific weapons.  I'd look at the laws and ordinances on the books first hand and maybe talk to a lawyer for clarification.

Jeff


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## Grenadier

Even if open carry is generally legal, I'd recommend not doing it with a baton, since the weapon itself would be rather blatantly showing.  

It all depends on the law enforcement folks, and how they interpret things.  Some will see you as creating a public menace by showing your weapons, even if you aren't doing anything wrong.  

There are several states in the nation, for example, that allow open carry of firearms, no permit needed, but some towns may either have restrictions, or an individual police officer may make a judgement call and have you booked on public menacing.  You'd probably win the court appearance, but it's a hassle.  

You should be able to carry a lockback, folding knife, though, as long as the blade length is OK for your locality / state.  I'd recommend a Spyderco Delica, which has a 2 7/8" blade, and has a pocket clip, so you wouldn't really be carrying it concealed.  Furthermore, almost all law enforcement personnel aren't going to even give it a moment's notice, since many people carry pocket knives.  

As always, your mileage may vary...


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## tellner

When I did more FMA I often carried a pair of sticks in my backpack. They poked up out of it - visible and accessible. The campus cops never said anything.


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## shesulsa

Don't let anyone who is not an attorney give you legal advice about weapons carriage.  Investigate the laws yourself and for finality, shell out around $30 for a short legal consultation with a defense attorney who can tell you what is and isn't legal and where.  Officers might not always remember the letter of the law, certain buildings and instituations are allowed to restrict weapons carriage above legal restrictions for open carry.

And once you get the legalities settled, *GET LOTS OF GOOD TRAINING FOR WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO CARRY!!!!*

Let me say that again:

_*GET LOTS OF GOOD TRAINING FOR WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO CARRY!!*_

AND you should train for defense against that/those weapon/s specifically so if they are taken from you, you can reclaim them and perhaps protect yourself.

By the by, what kind of extendable did you get?  Automatic? Manual? Steel? Aluminum?


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## Carol

When anyone applies for a job, most employers run background checks.  Conviction records can be accessed through these checks and in some places, arrest records can too.

A mistake could result in having a criminal record for the rest of one's life.  With security concerns stemming from 9/11 and workplace violence, having a weapons charge on your record will result in disqualifications for many types of employment prospects.

One can take steps to stay safe and legal, or risk a lifetime of explaining why they didn't stay safe and legal.


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## Iron Leopard

this thread reminds me I really need to get a tonfa and some training with it!


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## arnisandyz

In some states, the CCW license covers pretty much any legal weapon. Here in Florida we have a Concealed Weapon OR Firearm License. Other state's CCW only cover carrying the firearm.


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