# Would biting work here?



## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

Would biting work?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 14, 2018)

It does matter who your opponent is, if you bite his finger off, the fight will stop right there. Your opponent will run to the EM to connect his finger back before it's too late.

Of course biting work. It's more psychology than physical. To lose some body part for the rest of your life can scare you enough even if you are a tough guy.


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## Hanzou (Sep 14, 2018)

No. I mean, you can try to bite an arm or a leg, but I don't think that's going to help much. Best results I've seen from biting is going for the face or ears, but I don't think that was an option here. Typically untrained people on top don't realize they're in danger and believe that they're winning the fight. By the time this guy realized he was in trouble, he was already heading towards snapsville.

If you notice, the guy on top fell right into the Omoplata. No amount of biting or "dirty tricks" can help you if you don't realize the set up.


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## CB Jones (Sep 14, 2018)

In a fight with the adrenaline pumping biting is not as effective as one would think.

When I was around 20 I got in fight one night that ended up going to the ground.  The guy biting me just made the beating I gave him worse.


Not proud of that moment but a good example that biting often times does not create enough pain compliance.


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## jobo (Sep 14, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Would biting work?


No bitting wouldnt have stopped the broken arm, you would however have a slightly different result, that one has a broken arm and the other has a chunk of flesh missing, so it would have worked to the extent that you had inflicted more damage on the Attacker.


In less dominent situation bitting can change the dynamics of the fight, as they become very careful were they put their limbs, or break Off from what they are doing, in order to recue a finger.

When i was playing rugby, i was front row in the scrums and my opposite numbers kept raking my face with their nails,an action they stopped quite quickly after i took a big chunk of thuMb off


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## geezer (Sep 14, 2018)

Is it just me, or was that the strangest real fight I've seen. I mean what was going on here? I saw two guys grappling at a moderate pace on the floor with mellow music playing in the background, a group of mostly disinterested people enjoying themselves at the bar and scarcely paying attention, and people just walking by like this was the most normal thing in the world.

It wasn't until the one  guy really started to crank on the other dudes arm that I was sure it was serious. And even afterward, with the guy's arm all messed up all the bystanders were so ...strangely relaxed about the whole thing.  Very bizarre.


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## geezer (Sep 14, 2018)

Oh... and I don't think biting would have helped his arm. Unless you mean biting down on a firm padded object like a piece of wood or a wallet to help keep from screaming in pain? Yeah, maybe that!


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## Hanzou (Sep 14, 2018)

geezer said:


> Is it just me, or was that the strangest real fight I've seen. I mean what was going on here? I saw two guys grappling at a moderate pace on the floor with mellow music playing in the background, a group of mostly disinterested people enjoying themselves at the bar and scarcely paying attention, and people just walking by like this was the most normal thing in the world.
> 
> It wasn't until the one  guy really started to crank on the other dudes arm that I was sure it was serious. And even afterward, with the guy's arm all messed up all the bystanders were so ...strangely relaxed about the whole thing.  Very bizarre.



Probably just a random street fight outside a bar. In some parts of the world that stuff is common so people just walk by.

That was some nice music though.


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## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

jobo said:


> No bitting wouldnt have stopped the broken arm, you would however have a slightly different result, that one has a broken arm and the other has a chunk of flesh missing, so it would have worked to the extent that you had inflicted more damage on the Attacker.


 
As your arm is about to break and up to the point of it actually breaking and the excruciating pain that follows continuously....you will release your bite to scream, probably at the beginning.  Therefore, as the lock is tight and being cranked, the pain with go from 0-8/10 very quickly and you should open your mouth to scream. Then it's 8-10/10 as it breaks within 1-2 seconds.



> In less dominent situation bitting can change the dynamics of the fight, as they become very careful were they put their limbs, or break Off from what they are doing, in order to recue a finger.



When you bite, then your head is committed to being stationary = better chance for me to scoop out both of your eyeballs.



> When i was playing rugby, i was front row in the scrums and my opposite numbers kept raking my face with their nails,an action they stopped quite quickly after i took a big chunk of thuMb off



That's just Rugby and not fighting vs. trained fighters. And did you get kicked out of the game & banned for being a weirdo? I would hope that the other guy at least fought you for this or pressed charges. Or was this an imaginary story?


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## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> It does matter who your opponent is, if you bite his finger off, the fight will stop right there. Your opponent will run to the EM to connect his finger back before it's too late.
> 
> Of course biting work. It's more psychology than physical. To lose some body part for the rest of your life can scare you enough even if you are a tough guy.



Nah, adrenaline. The break will continue and you'd more likely open your mouth to scream as your arm cracks and then you may pass out from the pain. The pain is different and more bearable from a bite. While a broken bone, any movement or disturbance  after the break, is excruciating. I've been bitten by German Shepherds, and they have way more biting power than humans. It didn't even hurt that much due to the adrenaline....just  a lot of shock seeing a gnarling dog coming at me like a rocket and latching on. 

I know this one crazy ***** who almost bit off a finger joint of a female cop while resisting arrest and this Cop continued to smash her face in with the other hand, then started kneeing her in the face. They were both husky broads. 

This guy got half of his ear bitten off and was still game to continue the fight. No expression of pain was shown neither.


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## jobo (Sep 14, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> As your arm is about to break and up to the point of it actually breaking and the excruciating pain that follows continuously....you will release your bite to scream, probably at the beginning.  Therefore, as the lock is tight and being cranked, the pain with go from 0-8/10 very quickly and you should open your mouth to scream. Then it's 8-10/10 as it breaks within 1-2 seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rugby players are trained fighters, they train to fight for the ball ?????


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## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

jobo said:


> Rugby players are trained fighters, they train to fight for the ball ?????



Evidently, that would impress those who can't fight.


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## jobo (Sep 14, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Evidently, that would impress those who can't fight.


And whats your defintion of " cant fight"


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## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

jobo said:


> And whats your defintion of " cant fight"



^^  Exhibit A


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 14, 2018)

jobo said:


> Rugby players are trained fighters, they train to fight for the ball ?????





FriedRice said:


> Evidently, that would impress those who can't fight.


My first BJJ coach (who also competed in Muay Thai and MMA), used to play rugby. He was unambiguous in his opinion that rugby counted as a martial art.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 14, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Nah, adrenaline.


When your (general YOU) finger is separated from your hand and if you still have the "adrenaline" to continue, you are not a tough guy but a stupid guy.

I would prefer to have my arm broken 10 times than to have a missing finger for the rest of my life. When your finger is gone, it's gone.

I have just removed a losing finger picture from this post. Even when I look at it, it can upset my stomach big time. I don't want that picture to upset others here. Believe me, it's not a good feeling when you look at your hand and you can see one finger missing.


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## FriedRice (Sep 14, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When your (general YOU) finger is separated from your hand and if you still have the "adrenaline" to continue, you are not a tough guy but a stupid guy.



You're more stupid if didn't continue to break the arm after being bitten because there's no guarantee that just b/c you let go of the lock that he'd stop biting. And the arm was about to be broken anyway, in about 1 second.  



> I would prefer to have my arm broken 10 times than to have a missing finger for the rest of my life. When your finger is gone, it's gone.
> 
> I have just removed a losing finger picture from this post. Even when I look at it, it can upset my stomach big time. I don't want that picture to upset others here. Believe me, it's not a good feeling when you look at your hand and you can see one finger missing



Getting a little melodramatic aren't we? You clearly missed the point of this post + video. The omoplata was already secured. At the point when it started to hurt, then it was about to break in a few seconds.  And how is he going to reach for the fingers with his teeth? You do know what a shoulder lock is right?


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## geezer (Sep 14, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Getting a little melodramatic aren't we? You clearly missed the point of this post + video. The omoplata was already secured. At the point when it started to hurt, then it was about to break in a few seconds.  And how is he going to reach for the fingers with his teeth? You do know what a shoulder lock is right?



OK, if John won't post that finger biting video, I guess I will have to. Be warned, it is pretty graphic...


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2018)

It depends on whether you have your own teeth or not.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 15, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> It depends on whether you have your own teeth or not.


How to train biting?

Beginner level - get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth through the fresh and all the way to the bone.
Intermediate level - Try to bite a life snake's head off, or a life dog's leg off.
Advance level - Go to a zoo and test your biting against a tiger or lion.

You will then have teeth like this.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 15, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> How to train biting?



I trade bites with sharks...


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## FriedRice (Sep 15, 2018)

Human biting power is not very strong. 

How Much Force is There in a Human Bite?


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## drop bear (Sep 16, 2018)

Rolling would have helped.


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Human biting power is not very strong.
> 
> How Much Force is There in a Human Bite?


Yeah? You get someone to bite your arm or leg and tell me if it hurts...hell it hurts like crazy just biting your tongue or if a baby bites your finger

Tell that to evander Holyfield and his ear


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2018)

As for would it work for real...who knows every fights different. You can bite someone and they'll be in extreme pain or you can bite someone and they won't even flinch it all depends


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## MetalBoar (Sep 16, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Would biting work?


I'm not sure what you're asking. I definitely see several times where the guy on the bottom could have bitten the other fellow pretty severely, but it appears that he had a different game plan. The guy on top didn't seem to have a lot of good opportunities for that sort of thing and didn't seem to be trying to make them. Top guy didn't really seem to have much of a game plan that I could see.

Now I'm speculating here, but if you've got some larger point, like trying to debunk the idea that biting isn't a thing to worry about if you're a great grappler or some such, I've only got a couple of things to say. 1) We don't see enough of how things started for me to offer MUCH commentary. 2) If Top Guy was the instigator here he's pretty dumb or was pretty drunk. Even if he wasn't the instigator, I'd question his state of mind. Oh, and I guess 3) I have to agree with @geezer above - that's a really strange fight.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Sep 16, 2018)

There is no science to biting, its just what and whenever.  however, take into account blood borne diseases and you are tearing segments of skin off with your mouth also creating open wounds while in close proximity which increases chance of blood getting on you. 

I am personally inclined to go with i wouldn't/its highly situational to do it.  I personally find the concept of swallowing a strangers blood and getting their flesh stuck in my teeth etc disgusting.  

Now a good eye gouge or tearing of the testicles...


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## FriedRice (Sep 17, 2018)

MetalBoar said:


> I'm not sure what you're asking. I definitely see several times where the guy on the bottom could have bitten the other fellow pretty severely, but it appears that he had a different game plan.



The moment you start biting:
1.  your head is committed & stationary
2.  you upped the game of violence
3.  it can work and the guy lets go or he claws your eyeball out, then the other eyeball
4.  the human bite is not that powerful, like in zombie movies



> The guy on top didn't seem to have a lot of good opportunities for that sort of thing and didn't seem to be trying to make them. Top guy didn't really seem to have much of a game plan that I could see.



Seems like he did have opportunities to bite the arm and such.



> Now I'm speculating here, but if you've got some larger point, like trying to debunk the idea that biting isn't a thing to worry about if you're a great grappler or some such, I've only got a couple of things to say.



I'd be more worried about getting my arm popped like this or getting KTFO, much more so than getting bitten. Much, much more. I've never been bitten in a fight, but have been bitten by 3 different German Shepherds and twice, they were deep bites. The first 2 times was when I was a child and it was terrifying. But the 3rd time was as an adult and I put it into a headlock and started punching the **** out of it in the nose and it let go. I doubt that humans can bite anywhere near that powerful.  Again, say goodbye to 1 or 2 eyeballs. I'd think the biter would open their mouth to scream or get me to stop.



> 1) We don't see enough of how things started for me to offer MUCH commentary.
> 2) If Top Guy was the instigator here he's pretty dumb or was pretty drunk. Even if he wasn't the instigator, I'd question his state of mind. Oh, and I guess 3) I have to agree with @geezer above - that's a really strange fight.



Doesn't really matter. The Top Guy could have been the violent criminal, rapist, whatever.....he's trained and "POP"....game over or the beginning of a homicide if he wanted to kill that guy, who's now helpless due to the excruciating pain.  1-3 head stomps to the head in 3-4 seconds should do it.


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## FriedRice (Sep 17, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yeah? You get someone to bite your arm or leg and tell me if it hurts...hell it hurts like crazy just biting your tongue or if a baby bites your finger



Well no **** it's not pleasant.....but if you stop fighting because of being bitten, then you're just weaksauce....and there's no guarantee that they'd stop biting. This is what separates people who fights and those who don't.  I'm still going to **** them up much worse while they're biting me, like scoop out their eyeball, then the other one. Or I can just keep punching them in the face.



> Tell that to evander Holyfield and his ear



Tell him what? You see him quitting? He was more pissed than anything and he was bitten twice and a chunk came off and on the canvas. Just like I told you, it doesn't hurt that much due to adrenaline. I've had 3 different German Shepherds (240 pound force) bite me, and their biting power is way more powerful than a human (120-150 pound force). The 3rd time was as an adult and it didn't hurt that much as I put it in a headlock and started punching it in the snout and it let go.

And no ****ing way am I tougher than Evander Holyfield.

This guy got half of his ear bitten off and spat onto the sidewalk....he didn't even show any signs of pain and was going to **** up the fatboy who bit him.


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## FriedRice (Sep 17, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> As for would it work for real...who knows every fights different. You can bite someone and they'll be in extreme pain or you can bite someone and they won't even flinch it all depends



Since this is a Martial Artist forum, then this question pertains to MA'ists....of whom many, never fought or sparred for full KO's before, so they've never really experienced such pain for the pleasure of a sport/hobby before. Which is why, many seem to place so much stock into the effectiveness of biting.


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## MetalBoar (Sep 17, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> The moment you start biting:
> 1.  your head is committed & stationary
> 2.  you upped the game of violence
> 3.  it can work and the guy lets go or he claws your eyeball out, then the other eyeball
> ...


So, there is a certain set of MMA proponents who all seem to assume that if biting or groin shots or whatever comes up that it must mean everyone who expresses any concern about these things must think they are "teh deadly". There also seems to be a lot of overlap between this set and the set of people who seem to view street fights as some sort of contest to be won. I have no particular interest in biting anyone though I might do it if I felt desperate, nor do I think it's some sort of guaranteed fight ender, I'd just rather not get bitten. I also have no interest in ever being in another street fight, have my arm broken or get KTFO.

My impression, and I apologize if I'm wrong, is that you've got some chip on your shoulder to go around proving something about how what ever you think people ought to do (MMA?) is right and that everyone else is foolish. And hey, I think MMA training is very useful for self defense. I've done a little boxing, muay thai, and sambo, though not enough to be particularly good at any of them. I'd love to do more if I get a good opportunity. The thing is, the art isn't what I'm focused on in when it comes to self defense, not getting injured is my interest. Sure, I might "win" a fight even if I get my ear bitten off, but that's a pretty poor outcome in my book.

If you really want my analysis of this fight, this is what I have to say:

For the sake of clarity I'm going to say arm popper (the guy who applies the arm pop) and arm poppee (guy who's arm gets popped) as opposed to top and bottom because there appears to be some confusion about which was which in my earlier response.

The video here seems like a very strange fight. Commenting on it from my interest in self defense is tough only seeing it once these guys are on the ground. How did it start? How did they end up on the ground? Why does it look like they're doing a low intensity class exercise pretty much right up until arm poppee gets his arm wrecked? Why does no one intervene until after the arm pop? Why does anyone intervene at that point? From a self defense perspective and really from my perspective about martial arts, these are the important questions, not whether one guy could have bitten the other and whether it would have changed anything. From what little I can see of the start of this it doesn't look like a situation I'd ever find myself in.

From what we can see, this fight looks like it was semi-consensual in that neither of them seems to be trying to really get away. If the arm poppee was the guy who started this, or consented to it by not disengaging (running away, de-escalating, what ever) then he was dumb or drunk as he doesn't seem committed to doing serious injury and isn't skilled enough to control the fight nor even skilled enough that he should think that he might be able to do so. This might make sense if arm poppee was drunk and started a scrap over something dumb without any intention of doing serious harm and completely mis-read the stakes. If this is the case, then biting wouldn't fit his agenda. If he really wanted to seriously injure the arm popper then I'm very confused because it never looks like he's really trying to do so. He strikes me as a guy who thinks he's engaged in a school yard tussle (which I've seen on the street, but still don't understand).

If arm popper was the instigator and he took the other guy to the ground without giving him any opportunity to avoid the attack, while I still don't understand the "we're both on 'ludes" intensity, then he seems to have just followed his game plan, controlled the situation and then really injured mr. arm poppee. He had no need to resort to desperate and risky tactics like biting as he was the superior fighter. If arm poppee had been in a position to bite him and had done so it might or might not have changed the outcome for mr. poppee, but mr. popper might or might not have lost a chunk of something he cared about.


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## _Simon_ (Sep 18, 2018)

Well I can say for certain that biting would definitely work here:


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## _Simon_ (Sep 18, 2018)

Ps. It appears the OP has been banned, just in case anyone was wondering if waiting for responses etc..


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## Saheim (Sep 20, 2018)

Gotcha on the OP being banned but we're still here so....

First off, gotta agree with the poster that said how weird that whole deal was.

It is also a good display of real fight jiu jitsu for the haters (not here, just in general).

I'm not a fan of Bas Rutten but he does make an interesting point, when asked about biting to escape a hold.  He says - do not raise the level of violence in an encounter you are already losing.  While I do NOT really agree with this, I think it warrants pondering and I see the logic.

I saw an awesome opportunity to take a bite of a calf, in the vid. Would it have helped, who knows.

Google "Felony Fights face bite".  If you can find it, there's a good example of biting ending a fight and, if you're not familiar with "Felony Fights" there are absolutely NO rules.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 20, 2018)

Saheim said:


> I'm not a fan of Bas Rutten but he does make an interesting point, when asked about biting to escape a hold.  He says - do not raise the level of violence in an encounter you are already losing.  While I do NOT really agree with this, I think it warrants pondering and I see the logic.



MMmmmm.... maybe.... I can see the point, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
If you're talking about a sporting event, then this is certainly true. 
But if I am really fighting, then I'm not likely to believe that tapping out or saying "Uncle" is going to do me any good. In that situation, it's far more likely that I will raise the level of violence to include biting, breaking things, or shooting my assailant.


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## Hanzou (Sep 20, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> MMmmmm.... maybe.... I can see the point, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
> If you're talking about a sporting event, then this is certainly true.
> But if I am really fighting, then I'm not likely to believe that tapping out or saying "Uncle" is going to do me any good. In that situation, it's far more likely that I will raise the level of violence to include biting, breaking things, or shooting my assailant.



True enough. If someone is trying to break your arm or choke you in a confrontation, they're going to break your arm or choke you to (possible) death. You need to get out of that position by any means necessary.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 20, 2018)

Hanzou said:


> True enough. If someone is trying to break your arm or choke you in a confrontation, they're going to break your arm or choke you to (possible) death. You need to get out of that position by any means necessary.



Note that I'm not saying I would necessarily go straight to shooting someone, just that no option is ever off the table, if I think that is what is needed to make sure that I am _*not*_ the one injured. Minimum necessary force, certainly.


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## Saheim (Sep 20, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> MMmmmm.... maybe.... I can see the point, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
> If you're talking about a sporting event, then this is certainly true.
> But if I am really fighting, then I'm not likely to believe that tapping out or saying "Uncle" is going to do me any good. In that situation, it's far more likely that I will raise the level of violence to include biting, breaking things, or shooting my assailant.



Yea, ya see what I mean - I get where he is coming from, I understand the logic, I just ain't on board.

I guess it could mean the different between getting yer butt kicked and killed.   For example someone was just kicking and punching me, until I spear handed him in the eye, then he taps into his "reserves" and cripples me for life.  Especially if it is someone you know, used to be friends with, wtvr.  So.... yea while I get the idea it kinda seems like it is based on "They're only gonna hurt me THIS bad as long as I don't make them really mad"  The self control of my attacker is NOT something my defensive strategy should be relying on (just my opinion)

Years ago, a big no necker grabbed a friend of mine in a choke (at a party).  My friend reached up with one hand, took the cigarette he (my friend) was smoking and stuck it in the guy's forearm.  It worked, he let go pretty quick   I am a big fan of "dirty" force multipliers.


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## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

MetalBoar said:


> My impression, and I apologize if I'm wrong, is that you've got some chip on your shoulder to go around proving something about how what ever you think people ought to do (MMA?) is right and that everyone else is foolish.



This is basically how Bruce Lee felt and I'm doing what he told me.



> And hey, I think MMA training is very useful for self defense. I've done a little boxing, muay thai, and sambo, though not enough to be particularly good at any of them. I'd love to do more if I get a good opportunity. The thing is, the art isn't what I'm focused on in when it comes to self defense, not getting injured is my interest. Sure, I might "win" a fight even if I get my ear bitten off, but that's a pretty poor outcome in my book.



If someone got to your ear to chomp on it, then that just tells me that you're not very good at fighting and it's not MMA's fault.



> If you really want my analysis of this fight, this is what I have to say:



Not really, but ok.



> For the sake of clarity I'm going to say arm popper (the guy who applies the arm pop) and arm poppee (guy who's arm gets popped) as opposed to top and bottom because there appears to be some confusion about which was which in my earlier response.
> 
> The video here seems like a very strange fight. Commenting on it from my interest in self defense is tough only seeing it once these guys are on the ground. How did it start? How did they end up on the ground? Why does it look like they're doing a low intensity class exercise pretty much right up until arm poppee gets his arm wrecked?



Because in real life, not all fights happens the way some guy wearing military fatigues, with a pot belly and combat boots (on the mats even) teaches, right out of a Steven Seagal flick. How did it start and how did it end up like this and then, "POP"? I dunno, I wasn't there in some bad area of a bar in Brazil.  



> Why does no one intervene until after the arm pop? Why does anyone intervene at that point? From a self defense perspective and really from my perspective about martial arts, these are the important questions, not whether one guy could have bitten the other and whether it would have changed anything. From what little I can see of the start of this it doesn't look like a situation I'd ever find myself in.



Everything about self defense should be about you and your environment only, right?  



> From what we can see, this fight looks like it was semi-consensual in that neither of them seems to be trying to really get away. If the arm poppee was the guy who started this, or consented to it by not disengaging (running away, de-escalating, what ever) then he was dumb or drunk as he doesn't seem committed to doing serious injury and isn't skilled enough to control the fight nor even skilled enough that he should think that he might be able to do so. This might make sense if arm poppee was drunk and started a scrap over something dumb without any intention of doing serious harm and completely mis-read the stakes. If this is the case, then biting wouldn't fit his agenda. If he really wanted to seriously injure the arm popper then I'm very confused because it never looks like he's really trying to do so. He strikes me as a guy who thinks he's engaged in a school yard tussle (which I've seen on the street, but still don't understand).



You just don't know what it feels like when someone with average BJJ skills puts you in a pretzel like this and leading to the pop. 



> If arm popper was the instigator and he took the other guy to the ground without giving him any opportunity to avoid the attack, while I still don't understand the "we're both on 'ludes" intensity, then he seems to have just followed his game plan, controlled the situation and then really injured mr. arm poppee. He had no need to resort to desperate and risky tactics like biting as he was the superior fighter. If arm poppee had been in a position to bite him and had done so it might or might not have changed the outcome for mr. poppee, but mr. popper might or might not have lost a chunk of something he cared about.



Here's a major clue when it comes to doing things such as biting or eye gouging when fighting in the 'hood....in general, you bite = you will get ****ed up even worse, much worse. I wouldn't be surprised if that guy did try to bite, that's why...."POP".....because it did seem unnecessary and excessive, even for Brazil.


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## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yeah? You get someone to bite your arm or leg and tell me if it hurts...hell it hurts like crazy just biting your tongue or if a baby bites your finger
> 
> Tell that to evander Holyfield and his ear



I've been bitten by German Sheppherds and it didn't hurt that much. I already told you, adrenaline takes care of most of the pain. It was more shocking than anything, but I'm used to violence and punched the hell out of that dog and it let go. It wasn't a trained police dog or anything, because that would've been different and I would've been ****ed up if it was. 

But if you're trying to compare biting in a fight vs. that of accidentally biting your tongue, then you don't know **** about fighting and how adrenaline works. You even further proved my point by bringing up Holyfield. Did he quit fighting? Did he drop to the ground and die after losing a piece of his ear? They kept fighting after the 1st bite. The 2nd time, with a piece of his ear on the ground, he was jumping around mad as hell and wanted to kill Tyson. 

I even showed you a video of some random kid on the street getting half of his ear bitten off and spit to the ground by a fatty.....and he didn't even flinch and chased the fatty down to **** him up but got tased by Cops. Notice biting didn't do **** and fatboy was on his way to KO city if the cops didn't show up.


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## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ps. It appears the OP has been banned, just in case anyone was wondering if waiting for responses etc..



I'm back from timeout


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## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Saheim said:


> Gotcha on the OP being banned but we're still here so....
> 
> First off, gotta agree with the poster that said how weird that whole deal was.
> 
> ...



Biting the calf would've unlikely help. It probably would've pissed that guy off more. I think that he did try to bite....that's why he got his arm POPPED.



> Google "Felony Fights face bite".  If you can find it, there's a good example of biting ending a fight and, if you're not familiar with "Felony Fights" there are absolutely NO rules.



Incorrect, I know the exact video..... Karate Kid vs. Skinhead.   I think I even linked it on this thread. They started fighting with sticks.  The Skinhead was already winning the standup, took the kid's weapon and then they clinched.....Skinhead dominated on the ground in side control....but chose to bite, seemingly for fun + effects.  The Karate Kid = fine afterward, the skin wasn't even punctured. He just quit because of shock, and you know...Karate.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> MMmmmm.... maybe.... I can see the point, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
> If you're talking about a sporting event, then this is certainly true.
> But if I am really fighting, then I'm not likely to believe that tapping out or saying "Uncle" is going to do me any good. In that situation, it's far more likely that I will raise the level of violence to include biting, breaking things, or shooting my assailant.



Tapping or "saying Uncle" in a street fight when losing, or losing badly.....has a high chance of ending the fight.

1.  Most Self Defense only type schools, tries to sell movie type situations to sell more memberships.  Many of these instructors don't even fight and maybe had a few street scuffles that they often embellish.

2.  Most real fights in the streets aren't fights to the death. Many street fights are actually, like sporting events. The bystander(s) become the Referee. Many times, bystanders will stop the fight once they see that someone is done. Many other times, the one winning will stop on their own. Usually, a KO, ends the fight. Rarely does anyone keep going to kill the other guy. But you could get jumped if you're winning, or whatever....so of course, you should always be aware.

3.  My proof =   2,983 real street fight videos totaling 47.9 gigs on my hard drive, categorized.  Obviously not conclusive, but way, way better than some guy wearing military fatigues teaching a seminar about how effective biting is. Anybody can lie about their street fighting experiences, while videos don't lie.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Hanzou said:


> True enough. If someone is trying to break your arm or choke you in a confrontation, they're going to break your arm or choke you to (possible) death. You need to get out of that position by any means necessary.



If I were the one losing here....like about to get my arm broken or getting the crap beaten out of me standing up....I would tap or ask to quit. If they don't, then I would bite and/or try to eye gouge, nut squeeze, etc.  But not before trying the giving up route first. 

I believe that I'd get ****ed up way worse if I started with the dirty techniques.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> Note that I'm not saying I would necessarily go straight to shooting someone, just that no option is ever off the table, if I think that is what is needed to make sure that I am _*not*_ the one injured. Minimum necessary force, certainly.



Isn't this what gangbangers do nowadays, resort to shooting instead of duking it out? When I was a kid in North Philly, we had guns but most of the time, we chose to fight with our fists.


----------



## BigMotor (Oct 3, 2018)

If I think that someone is about to break my arm, then the fight will become serious for both parties, not just the one. That is a 2 way street, and it is grossly foolish to start down that street, if you are not very serious.
Because the fight may take up at another time, with no warning, and I mean a bushwhack: since the injured party is sure to take a broken arm very poorly indeed: but, I don't think people have enough sense anymore, to consider the consequences.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Oct 3, 2018)

Oddly enough, the one person I've ever had show me how to use biting in a fight was a well-regarded BJJ instructor. (Hint - it's an adjunct to grappling technique, not a substitute for it.)

Speaking as a BJJ instructor myself, I would avoid biting under most circumstances. Among other concerns would be legal and health risks.  That said, I can imagine situations where biting could be effective and necessary. You just have to know how and when and where. Biting your way out of an armbar? Not the right time or place. If someone knows what they're doing with the armbar, biting is not an effective counter. If they don't know what they're doing, then there are safer, more reliable counters.


----------



## Saheim (Oct 3, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Biting the calf would've unlikely help. It probably would've pissed that guy off more. I think that he did try to bite....that's why he got his arm POPPED.
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect, I know the exact video..... Karate Kid vs. Skinhead.   I think I even linked it on this thread. They started fighting with sticks.  The Skinhead was already winning the standup, took the kid's weapon and then they clinched.....Skinhead dominated on the ground in side control....but chose to bite, seemingly for fun + effects.  The Karate Kid = fine afterward, the skin wasn't even punctured. He just quit because of shock, and you know...Karate.



"Incorrect"? How so? I said a good example of biting ending a fight.... It did.  Just watched it again.  The bitee was screaming "stop" while panicking.  His adrenaline didn't seem to help.  If you are specifically looking for an example where the person LOSING stops the fight with a bite, I'll see if I can find it - it is in a compilation of BJJ disqualifications.  The guy getting bit did not get mad and finish the break, he jumped up howling.  Not saying it always works, but Hollyfield didn't go beast on Tyson, after being bit.  Sometimes, YES, biting the crap out of someone seems to make them forget what they're doing.


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 3, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Tapping or "saying Uncle" in a street fight when losing, or losing badly.....has a high chance of ending the fight.
> 
> 1.  Most Self Defense only type schools, tries to sell movie type situations to sell more memberships.  Many of these instructors don't even fight and maybe had a few street scuffles that they often embellish.
> 
> ...


Wow you have 2000 street fight videos on your computer....you need a life buddy


----------



## Dirty Dog (Oct 3, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Isn't this what gangbangers do nowadays, resort to shooting instead of duking it out? When I was a kid in North Philly, we had guns but most of the time, we chose to fight with our fists.



Not really. Speaking only from my own experience of some 30+ years in the ED, a very large majority of fights are still unarmed.


----------



## Hanzou (Oct 3, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> If I were the one losing here....like about to get my arm broken or getting the crap beaten out of me standing up....I would tap or ask to quit. If they don't, then I would bite and/or try to eye gouge, nut squeeze, etc.  But not before trying the giving up route first.
> 
> I believe that I'd get ****ed up way worse if I started with the dirty techniques.



Typically I go for chokes over breaks.  Putting someone to sleep is a bit more humane and gentle than breaking their limbs. You'd have to thoroughly piss me off for me to start snapping your arms and legs.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not really. Speaking only from my own experience of some 30+ years in the ED, a very large majority of fights are still unarmed.



What's ED, btw?


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

BigMotor said:


> If I think that someone is about to break my arm, then the fight will become serious for both parties, not just the one. That is a 2 way street, and it is grossly foolish to start down that street, if you are not very serious.
> Because the fight may take up at another time, with no warning, and I mean a bushwhack: since the injured party is sure to take a broken arm very poorly indeed: but, I don't think people have enough sense anymore, to consider the consequences.



See that's the thing though....when an arm lock is locked in and being cranked.....it goes from uncomfy to a slight sharp pain in 1 second or less....this is when most people will tap....1 more second and it should pop.

In a dark alley somewhere w/no witnesses nor cameras, then you're probably ****ed should they break your arm. This is not as bad as getting KO'ed, but it's pretty damn bad trying to fight with 1 arm while in pain. The other guy can kill you much easier now if he wanted to...ie. soccer kick & stomp your head in while you're lying there in pain....so hopefully you do carry a gun and can weather through the pain to draw and shoot....and lets hope he's not armed himself, and with 2 good arms.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Saheim said:


> "Incorrect"? How so? I said a good example of biting ending a fight.... It did.  Just watched it again.  The bitee was screaming "stop" while panicking.  His adrenaline didn't seem to help.



Incorrect. The Karate Kid was already done when he got taken down and side mounted. You just don't know what this means. The guy bit  him for fun, prob. b/c he was a crazy ****.  He didn't even bite that hard b/c  he didn't  break the skin.  It was all for show and you fell for it.



> If you are specifically looking for an example where the person LOSING stops the fight with a bite, I'll see if I can find it - it is in a compilation of BJJ disqualifications. The guy getting bit did not get mad and finish the break, he jumped up howling.



Then you are very inexperienced then. I've seen those BJJ DQ's. No **** that during a competition that the other guy would complain if there was biting. It's a ****ing competition, not a street fight. I guess you don't compete to know why you should always complain when rules are broken, especially when some **** bites.



> Not saying it always works,



And I never said it never works neither.



> but Hollyfield didn't go beast on Tyson, after being bit. Sometimes, YES, biting the crap out of someone seems to make them forget what they're doing.



You just don't understand competition and the $$$ at stake.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 3, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Wow you have 2000 street fight videos on your computer....you need a life buddy



Says you who has over 3000 posts in 2 years compared to my 1000 posts in 8 years.  And you train anti-rape techniques.


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 4, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Says you who has over 3000 posts in 2 years compared to my 1000 posts in 8 years.  And you train anti-rape techniques.


Wtf is wrong with you


----------



## Dirty Dog (Oct 4, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> What's ED, btw?



Emergency Department. Not the ED you take pills for.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 4, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Wtf is wrong with you



This from someone who said:

"Wow you have 2000 street fight videos on your computer....you need a life buddy"

Sounds like you're overly sensitive and can't take what you dish out. Which further explains, Krav Maga.


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 4, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> This from someone who said:
> 
> "Wow you have 2000 street fight videos on your computer....you need a life buddy"
> 
> Sounds like you're overly sensitive and can't take what you dish out. Which further explains, Krav Maga.


Bye bye I won't miss you


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 5, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> Emergency Department. Not the ED you take pills for.



Oh now I just got it, you know, b/c 1 of us must have that problem.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 5, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Bye bye I won't miss you



Bye bye non-hard sparring Kraver.


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 5, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Bye bye non-hard sparring Kraver.


Mate I truly think you might have brain damage..,.it would explain a lot. You've mentioned Krav Maga in every post towards like its some kind of insult...grow up boy


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 5, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Mate I truly think you might have brain damage..,.it would explain a lot. You've mentioned Krav Maga in every post towards like its some kind of insult...grow up boy



I speak the truth, little bro.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 5, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> MMmmmm.... maybe.... I can see the point, but I'm not sure I agree with it.
> If you're talking about a sporting event, then this is certainly true.
> But if I am really fighting, then I'm not likely to believe that tapping out or saying "Uncle" is going to do me any good. In that situation, it's far more likely that I will raise the level of violence to include biting, breaking things, or shooting my assailant.



See if I had someone in an arm bar and they bit me I would break it 

Even if I wasn't going to before hand. 

If I see someone pull a weapon out in a fight I generally stomp them. Even as a bystander.


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 5, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> I speak the truth, little bro.


Yes I do Krav Maga? So what I'm proud of it and I enjoy it. You must be very unhappy with your life if you've got to try and insult someone for something they do


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 5, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yes I do Krav Maga? So what I'm proud of it and I enjoy it. You must be very unhappy with your life if you've got to try and insult someone for something they do



Didn't you insult me for sparring hard and risking CTE and concussions, repeatedly throughout this thread? Plenty of insults from you towards me for something that I do, so you're a hypocrite and therefore "you must be very unhappy with your life".


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 5, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Bye bye non-hard sparring Kraver.


..... did you learn absolutely nothing from your 'time-out' mate?


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 6, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> ..... did you learn absolutely nothing from your 'time-out' mate?


Obviously he didn't


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 8, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> ..... did you learn absolutely nothing from your 'time-out' mate?



Why? What's untrue about what I said towards him? He even admits to them all.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 8, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Obviously he didn't



The truth hurts don't it?


----------



## Headhunter (Oct 8, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> The truth hurts don't it?


Bye bye


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 8, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Bye bye



later bro.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 8, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Why? What's untrue about what I said towards him? He even admits to them all.


This isn't about 'stating facts'. It's the derogatory, insulting and disrespectful way you're approaching this and others. I for one support an open, friendly forum built on respect and inclusion, not one that belittles people for their training. There's speaking truth, and then there's judging people because they don't train like you do. Why does it even matter what anyone 'admits' to you? What are you trying to get out of this?


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 8, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> This isn't about 'stating facts'. It's the derogatory, insulting and disrespectful way you're approaching this and others. I for one support an open, friendly forum built on respect and inclusion, not one that belittles people for their training. There's speaking truth, and then there's judging people because they don't train like you do. Why does it even matter what anyone 'admits' to you? What are you trying to get out of this?


 
Why aren't you calling them out on their direct insults towards me that are much worse than what you're accusing me of, which is still ambiguous and based solely on your own interpretations....of which, I deny?

If he admits to not sparring hard for full KO's because he fears getting CTE and concussions, then how else am I supposed to judge that? If I shouldn't judge then why are you judging my judgements? Kind of hypocritical, is it not?


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 9, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Why aren't you calling them out on their direct insults towards me that are much worse than what you're accusing me of, which is still ambiguous and based solely on your own interpretations....of which, I deny?



Well it's irrelevant and beside the point. Sure there were remarks made that weren't overly respectful. I'm speaking to you because of a pattern of this. So you deny you were insulting and disrespectful to others... right. Fine. Am not going to try and convince you. Perhaps it would be a good self-reflective practice to read through your posts. I'm simply for a forum free of that nonsense of trying to bring others down because they don't spar or train as 'hard' as you. And the getting people to try and admit they're scared... far out man really...



FriedRice said:


> If he admits to not sparring hard for full KO's because he fears getting CTE and concussions, then how else am I supposed to judge that? If I shouldn't judge then why are you judging my judgements? Kind of hypocritical, is it not?



Nup see now you're hiding behind that you're 'judging my judgements' circular stuff. I'm simply calling you on stuff, not judging. Like I said, I like a friendly, welcoming forum (so do the mods), so am simply calling out when things have gone too far. Not every action is based on right/wrong judgement. Only coming from the perspective of judgement does everything feel like a judgement. I know within myself I'm coming from respect to everyone here, and actually respect to you.

Even if he admitted he was scared of getting a concussion.... so?? Even if he said it's not due to fear but simply wanting to live a quality life outside of training (which is exactly what he said), so??

I'll leave it at that, it's up to you to listen or take anything on board I won't force anything upon you.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 11, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Well it's irrelevant and beside the point. Sure there were remarks made that weren't overly respectful.



More like, it's because my arguments offends you and so you side with them and their bad behaviors = you're biased and unreliable.



> I'm speaking to you because of a pattern of this. So you deny you were insulting and disrespectful to others... right. Fine. Am not going to try and convince you. Perhaps it would be a good self-reflective practice to read through your posts. I'm simply for a forum free of that nonsense of trying to bring others down because they don't spar or train as 'hard' as you. And the getting people to try and admit they're scared... far out man really...



Why, I can't make judgments like you're judging me? You're a hypocrite. You must believe in participation trophies too then?



> Nup see now you're hiding behind that you're 'judging my judgements' circular stuff. I'm simply calling you on stuff, not judging. Like I said, I like a friendly, welcoming forum (so do the mods), so am simply calling out when things have gone too far.



You're one-sided with your "calling out"/judgments. This makes it even worse than just being hypocritical, but biased hypocrisy. 



> Not every action is based on right/wrong judgement. Only coming from the perspective of judgement does everything feel like a judgement. I know within myself I'm coming from respect to everyone here, and actually respect to you.



Basically, you're saying that your judgments of myself, is better because you feel that they are.



> Even if he admitted he was scared of getting a concussion.... so?? Even if he said it's not due to fear but simply wanting to live a quality life outside of training (which is exactly what he said), so??
> 
> I'll leave it at that, it's up to you to listen or take anything on board I won't force anything upon you.



See? You don't even know what I said about it, should he finally admits that he's scared of sparring hard.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 12, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> More like, it's because my arguments offends you and so you side with them and their bad behaviors = you're biased and unreliable.



Nope, read my comment on it being a pattern. You can't see how it comes across as quite unwelcoming and disrespectful? Not biased. But you're saying that I should 'police' every single action that goes on here to prove my unbiasedness. This isn't an us vs you thing. But why do you think this **** keeps happening on the forum, and the same conversations keep occurring? It's not because anyone is personally against you and attacking you. Think about it..



FriedRice said:


> Why, I can't make judgments like you're judging me? You're a hypocrite. You must believe in participation trophies too then?



When you believe in judgement you're going to see the world through the eyes of judgement. Read what I said before, I'm not judging you, but calling out when you're being disrespectful. Life isn't just every single person's actions and words being judgements. These can come from places that aren't right/wrong judgements. If someone only see things like that, they'll just defend and hide behind the hypocrite argument.



FriedRice said:


> You're one-sided with your "calling out"/judgments. This makes it even worse than just being hypocritical, but biased hypocrisy.



Again... read above. I'm actually trying to see things from your perspective, but it doesn't seem you want to hear what I'm saying..



FriedRice said:


> Basically, you're saying that your judgments of myself, is better because you feel that they are.



Nope.



FriedRice said:


> See? You don't even know what I said about it, should he finally admits that he's scared of sparring hard.



Okay mate, nah I've read through the other thread. I just don't see why it's necessary for anyone to admit anything.. like what are trying to get out of that? Doesn't really matter if you don't care to answer, all good.


----------



## geezer (Oct 13, 2018)

Simon ...Don't argue with _Klingons. 





_


To them any form of _caution _will be construed as cowardice.


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 16, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Nope, read my comment on it being a pattern. You can't see how it comes across as quite unwelcoming and disrespectful? Not biased. But you're saying that I should 'police' every single action that goes on here to prove my unbiasedness. This isn't an us vs you thing. But why do you think this **** keeps happening on the forum, and the same conversations keep occurring? It's not because anyone is personally against you and attacking you. Think about it..



No, you really are biased and a hypocrite. How can you not miss the ton of insults towards me considering there were tons of posts that you can't really miss even if you tried. 



> When you believe in judgement you're going to see the world through the eyes of judgement. Read what I said before, I'm not judging you, but calling out when you're being disrespectful. Life isn't just every single person's actions and words being judgements. These can come from places that aren't right/wrong judgements. If someone only see things like that, they'll just defend and hide behind the hypocrite argument.



Once again, you're judging my judgments. This makes you a hypocrite but you can't see it. You're this exact person that you're complaining about. It's obvious that what you consider disrespectful, I don't....but oh look, you think that you're some final authority on what's respectful = more judging = more hypocritical. 



> Again... read above. I'm actually trying to see things from your perspective, but it doesn't seem you want to hear what I'm saying..



I already see and know what your perspective entails and you just don't like it.


----------



## Saheim (Oct 16, 2018)

Considering the context of the thread, I'm a little disappointed that neither of y'all (the guys arguing back and forth) have said, "Oh Bite Me!"


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2018)

You don't wait for your opponent to get an arm bar, or leg bar on you to start your biting. The moment that you are on the ground, you start to bite on whatever that your mouth can reach.

How hard can it be if you use one hand to hold on your opponent's arm and bite on his finger?


----------



## Saheim (Oct 16, 2018)

Back to being serious -

I just heard something from Lee Morrison of Urban Combat that made the most sense, in regards to biting.

I'm going to do a bad job of relaying what he says, y'all should really search out the video and hear it from him but.....

He (basically) says that elevating the level of violence is bad IF there is a "break".  Example - you bite the bujeebuz out of a guy, he pulls free, has that pause to realize you just bit him,  then spills an ocean of hate on you.  Compared to biting in a position that doesn't allow him to disengage.  The bite is just beginning of a whole bunch of ugliness that follows IMMEDIATELY.  Basically, he realizes "I just got bit" at the same time he realizes "omg, I being destroyed".


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 16, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> No, you really are biased and a hypocrite. How can you not miss the ton of insults towards me considering there were tons of posts that you can't really miss even if you tried.



I said that I saw that, and it is absolutely 100% beside the point. Totally irrelevant. Read my above posts.




FriedRice said:


> Once again, you're judging my judgments. This makes you a hypocrite but you can't see it. You're this exact person that you're complaining about. It's obvious that what you consider disrespectful, I don't....but oh look, you think that you're some final authority on what's respectful = more judging = more hypocritical.



You keep hiding behind that circular nonsense to avoid the issue. Have seen that too many times to not address it. I'm not saying at all that nor have I implied that I'm some absolute authority, but I do have sense and wits about me. You've put this 'authority' thing on me, and frankly you could do that with every single person in order to avoid listening to others.

And when I called that, YOU didn't like it. So there's really nowhere to go from here. Fair enough you don't see it as disrespectful, that's your perspective. But alot of people here have. That's not worth listening to?



FriedRice said:


> I already see and know what your perspective entails and you just don't like it.



Very good. Wish you all the best with everything, many blessings.


----------



## Hanzou (Oct 16, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You don't wait for your opponent to get an arm bar, or leg bar on you to start your biting. The moment that you are on the ground, you start to bite on whatever that your mouth can reach.
> 
> How hard can it be if you use one hand to hold on your opponent's arm and bite on his finger?



Like I said before, the issue is recognizing the set ups that get you into joint locks and chokes. If you have no idea how those set ups begin, you're not going to see those submissions coming. What's worse is that your actions may make it EASIER to fall into a submission set up.

Additionally I think we often get confused in these types of discussions because we're looking at a situation from a defender's point of view. In the video, the guy doing the breaking begins in the guard, which indicates that more than likely the person on top of him is the aggressor and started the whole thing. The entire purpose of the guard is to protect you while you're in possibly the worst position possible.

If we're flipping this scenario around and YOU'RE the defender who is on the bottom of someone else, the chances of you ending up in a joint lock is HIGHLY unlikely. More than likely you're going to be on the bottom eating elbows and punches. Good luck isolating and then biting fists and elbows connecting with your face and head. I know if I'm on top of you, I'm not cradling you and setting up some fancy Bjj submission, I'm moving quickly to the mounted position, and then socking you in the face until you roll over onto your stomach. Once there, I'm going to keep punching you in the head until I know you're not a threat anymore.

Good luck biting your way out of that one.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 16, 2018)

We are discussing whether or not biting can work in ground game or not. During mounting, you will have chance for vampire bite.


----------



## dunc (Oct 17, 2018)

Setting aside that you may just get lucky and shock someone to let you escape

There are plenty of viable uses of dirty tactics, but...
A) They can only be used to augment structural technique
B) Just like any technique they need to be studied and trained - they are not a short cut


----------



## Hanzou (Oct 17, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> We are discussing whether or not biting can work in ground game or not. During mounting, you will have chance for vampire bite.



The guy on the bottom? If someone on the bottom of my side mount tried to bite me in the neck, I'd take my elbow and start grinding their face into the pavement.

Oh, and I'm definitely turning your face into hamburger when I enter mount (Okay, just knocking you out. I'm not that violent of a person.. ).


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 17, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> I said that I saw that, and it is absolutely 100% beside the point. Totally irrelevant. Read my above posts.



I did, you're biased.




> You keep hiding behind that circular nonsense to avoid the issue. Have seen that too many times to not address it. I'm not saying at all that nor have I implied that I'm some absolute authority, but I do have sense and wits about me. You've put this 'authority' thing on me, and frankly you could do that with every single person in order to avoid listening to others.



Saying not to judge and then you judge me = you're a hypocrite. 



> And when I called that, YOU didn't like it. So there's really nowhere to go from here. Fair enough you don't see it as disrespectful, that's your perspective. But alot of people here have. That's not worth listening to?



Because everyone have their perspective, but you can't accept mine due to your being a hypocrite and closed-minded. Just because you find more people here with a perspective that aligns with yours, doesn't make yours correct. Go to other MA forums such as sherdog.com and you'll find literally 100 to 500 times more members...where there are hundreds of new posts per day that reaches 5000-1000 views in less than 24 hours.....and at least 80% of the people there would agree with me over you. 



> Very good. Wish you all the best with everything, many blessings.



I guess this is your farewell line #3 now? LOL


----------



## FriedRice (Oct 17, 2018)

Hanzou said:


> If we're flipping this scenario around and YOU'RE the defender who is on the bottom of someone else, the chances of you ending up in a joint lock is HIGHLY unlikely. More than likely you're going to be on the bottom eating elbows and punches. Good luck isolating and then biting fists and elbows connecting with your face and head. I know if I'm on top of you, I'm not cradling you and setting up some fancy Bjj submission, I'm moving quickly to the mounted position, and then socking you in the face until you roll over onto your stomach. Once there, I'm going to keep punching you in the head until I know you're not a threat anymore.
> 
> Good luck biting your way out of that one.



Remember the early UFC's where you can bite, eye gouge, nuts strike, nut squeeze.....basically anything you want and not get disqualified?

Patrick Smith (TKD) vs. Scott Morris (Krav Maga).....and Patrick Smith was horrible at grappling; not sure if he even knew any grappling at that point in time:






The early UFC's dispelled much to all of these deadly TMA notions and dirty, anti-rape tactics. And that was when MMA was in its infancy. The levels of techniques and science has evolved, leaps and bounds beyond what it was 25 years ago.


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## FriedRice (Oct 17, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> We are discussing whether or not biting can work in ground game or not. During mounting, you will have chance for vampire bite.




You posted a picture of two, BJJ specialists grappling each other....in what, a high level, BJJ tournament?

There's a big difference between this picture above.....and that of a BJJ specialist grappling the average TMA'ist who doesn't train grappling....and will get destroyed in such a mounted position. If someone vampire bites a BJJ'ist while they're in the full mount; they could drive their thumbs into the TMA's eye sockets and as they posture up....while driving their thumbs downward, deep into the eye sockets (grasping the temple with the other 8 fingers for leverage). Think they'll let go of their vampire bite?

After that, just keep hold of the head and smashing the back of it into the cement, over and over again for payback for biting....if this was Mad Max 3's Thunderdome or something....otherwise the loser dies and the winner goes to prison for life.


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## FriedRice (Oct 17, 2018)

dunc said:


> Setting aside that you may just get lucky and shock someone to let you escape
> 
> There are plenty of viable uses of dirty tactics, but...
> A) They can only be used to augment structural technique
> B) Just like any technique they need to be studied and trained - they are not a short cut



Another viable technique to get out would be to:

C) Tap

I would literally tap and say, "OK you got me...I'm sorry, good fight...."....try this first to end the fight respectfully before upping the level of violence with biting, etc.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 17, 2018)

Hanzou said:


> The guy on the bottom? If someone on the bottom of my side mount tried to bite me in the neck, I'd take my elbow and start grinding their face into the pavement.
> 
> Oh, and I'm definitely turning your face into hamburger when I enter mount (Okay, just knocking you out. I'm not that violent of a person.. ).


I'm talking about the guy on the top. The guy on the top should have chance to bite the guy on the bottom.


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## dunc (Oct 17, 2018)

FriedRice said:


> Another viable technique to get out would be to:
> 
> C) Tap
> 
> I would literally tap and say, "OK you got me...I'm sorry, good fight...."....try this first to end the fight respectfully before upping the level of violence with biting, etc.



There will be situations when submitting is a great option I think
Probably at that point it's too late for anything else


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## Hanzou (Oct 17, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I'm talking about the guy on the top. The guy on the top should have chance to bite the guy on the bottom.



Well yeah because he has the dominant position. The question is (outside of being a sociopath) why would you need to bite someone if you're in a position of dominance?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 17, 2018)

Hanzou said:


> why would you need to bite someone if you're in a position of dominance?


Do you agree that

BJJ + biting > BJJ?


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## FriedRice (Oct 18, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I'm talking about the guy on the top. The guy on the top should have chance to bite the guy on the bottom.



That would be a terrible idea. The BJJ will get dominant, full mount and now can rain punches & elbows or even thumbs to the eyeballs to scoop them both out.....why  would he break posture and go down and vampire bite for?  This opens up for more defense from the bottom and sweeps. Worse, he can get bitten, back.....also his ears are now exposed to bites.....and the bottom guy can now eye gouge him.


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## FriedRice (Oct 18, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Do you agree that
> 
> BJJ + biting > BJJ?



Do you agree that 

BJJ + a gun > BJJ + biting?


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## Hanzou (Oct 18, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Do you agree that
> 
> BJJ + biting > BJJ?



No, I don't agree with that at all.


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