# Arnis, Escrima, Kali, The difference is?



## Journey (Dec 3, 2004)

Hi guys. Please excuse my ignorance. 

I was reading a thread where kenpotex asked the question about the difference between Arnis, Kali, and Escrima. The site that was suggested stated that they where basically the same thing, that the name indicated what area the style came from and that Kali is pretty much an unknown word in the philipines. I don't know mush about these styles. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have had it explianed to me a little bit differently and have also read it this way in different in text.

Kali/Escrima, Kali was developed as a blade fighting art. Escrima was used as a training tool and weapon with-in Kali

Arnis was developed as a stick fighting art. 

Could someone shed a little light. Thanx.


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## Dieter (Dec 4, 2004)

Journey said:
			
		

> Hi guys. Please excuse my ignorance.
> 
> I was reading a thread where kenpotex asked the question about the difference between Arnis, Kali, and Escrima. The site that was suggested stated that they where basically the same thing, that the name indicated what area the style came from and that Kali is pretty much an unknown word in the philipines. I don't know mush about these styles. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have had it explianed to me a little bit differently and have also read it this way in different in text.



Hi Journey,

this part is absolutely correct. But to distinguish a style one needs more information than "Arnis" or "Eskrima".
Still there are many Arnis, Eskrima and Kali styles, that are very different from each other in techniques and principles. Just the name "Arnis" and "Eskrima", which basically only means "filipino martial arts with weapons", is used in different areas of the Philippines. It does not specify a style. 
Correct is also, that the term Kali is hardly used in the Philippines and if it is used, it was imported in the last years. No "normal, non FMA Filipino" would understand what you mean, when you say you would like to train Kali. Arnis and Eskrima on the other hand are commonly used in the Philippines. 



> Kali/Escrima, Kali was developed as a blade fighting art. Escrima was used as a training tool and weapon with-in Kali
> 
> Arnis was developed as a stick fighting art.
> 
> Could someone shed a little light. Thanx.



This part is nonsense.
What sometimes happens in the Philippines, that the sticks as such are called "Arnis", like: "Can you give me your Arnis" which means: "please hand me your sticks".

Regards


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## Journey (Dec 4, 2004)

Thanks, That makes alot more sence. 

I know a few people at work from the PI. They have only been in the U.S. a few years. So I asked them what they knew about Kali, they looked at me very confused. When I asked about stick fighting. The terms Arnis a Eskrima came up. One has an uncle who trains in the PI. Other than that they didn't know much about it.


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## Journey (Dec 4, 2004)

So then, In Eskrima, Arnis, Kali, was a blade, similar to a machette' intended be used in place of a stick during the development of the styles. Or was it always intended to be a stick art. 

I understand just a little about Arnis. But it seems to be less every day. I had a Kenpo instructor (many moon's ago) who taught some of the bascis. I was wondering how the techniques would apply using an edged weapon of a similar lenth. Some are obvious. Others have me guessing. 

Any insight would be helpful. Thanx


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## MJS (Dec 4, 2004)

Hi Journey!  Welcome to the forum!!  Enjoy your stay here, and keep the questions coming!!  There are a ton of people that have a wealth of knowledge and skill!

To try and answer your questions.

There are many different FMAs out there.  Some focus more on certain aspects than others, but you'll find that they all contain stick and blade applications.  Again, it all comes down to who you study with.  You can train with 2 different people in the same art, and get a different interpretation.

If I'm reading this quote correctly...



> I was wondering how the techniques would apply using an edged weapon of a similar lenth. Some are obvious. Others have me guessing.



you're asking, can the stick techs. be applied to a blade?  The answer is yes!!!  That is the beauty and one of the many things that I love about the FMAs, is that empty hand, stick, and blade movements are all one in the same.  Of course, when doing a stick disarm, you're not going to take your own arm and block the stick with it, but with slight mods. the tech. is in there!

I hope that this was a help to you.  Again, if you have anymore questions, feel free to ask!

Mike


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## Journey (Dec 5, 2004)

So it is really all in the Instructors interpratation of the the FMA. I have ony had limited exposure to the FMA. Limited Arnis training with sticks. And It's been a while. I never thought to convert my stick training to empty hand. Hmmm... this could work.

My current Kenpo instructor in half Fillipino. He has an uncle who lives in the PI and has been training in FMA for years. He is planning to move into our area soon and is going to join us in our Kenpo training and as a FMA instructor. This should give me the exposure I'm looking for. Thanx.


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## MJS (Dec 5, 2004)

You're welcome and I'm glad I could help!

Arnis is one of those arts that can be studied as an individual art, or be blended with another.  

Enjoy your trip down the FMA path, and as always, feel free to ask any questions if you have them.

Mike


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## starrider7777 (Dec 5, 2004)

Check out this on-topic thread...there's lots of info and debate there.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6849


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## bart (Dec 6, 2004)

Hey There,

There's been a lot of discussion about this before, but it's always good in my opinion to revisit it now and then for fresh persectives. Among different styles these words have different meanings. In keeping with what Dieter said, in general, they mean the same thing: "a weapon based art originating in the Philippines." They are also commonly used to refer to the stick employed in training. Also, generally neither kali, arnis, or eskrima indicate where the art comes from geographically within the Philippines or whether the style is more of a stick or a blade art. The most common terms are arnis and eskrima. Kali is not in as common usage right now, but that may change as some prolific teachers espouse the term kali. Depending on the style (Doce Pares, Sayoc, Bahala Na, etc.) these particular terms have particular meaning. But in general they mean the same thing. 

Good luck in your explorations.


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## LAKANPOPOT (Dec 7, 2004)

Here's my opinion. When I lived in the Philippines I never heard of Kali used as a term used for any of the Filipino Martial arts. Arnis was commonly used sometimes also known as Arnis de mano in the Tagalog region. Literally meaning Arnis(stick)Mano(hand). Reason why is in the Tagalog region mostly the specialty was Single stick. Although it was taught as Espada Y daga orientation. This was only to wake up the left hand (the allive hand as we know it) if your right handed and vice versa. Arnis had a misconception or Escrima to that matter by saying it was a weapon oriented art only. You see Arnis was not known too much because the ones with the knowledge hide their knowledge. Sometimes not even the kids knew their fathers were arnisadors. I learned early in arnis that it was not weapon oriented but has its own emptyhand techniques. Escrima the same. these terms were all the same it all depended on what the teacher who was imparting the system to. Example, I like to use arnis de mano. But my friend who is of the same style likes the sound of estokada. They are the same. It is like Hi! What's up! Hello! You get see the Filipinos (and I hate to say this because I am a Filipino) love foreign stuff. Karate, judo and taekwondo were more famous than arnis or escrima. Do you notice our own Presas brothers were experts in the Japanese arts. But later in their maturity wanted to spread the FMA. My exposure to the term kali came from the book Filipino Martial arts of Guro Dan Inosanto. Then I went and asked GM Ernesto Presas he said we don't use such term. Although it sounds familiar because of Pagkakali-kali, Kalis, Kalirogan. He says it could be short for one of these. GM Ernesto was the one who exposed me to the different systems of Arnis. Doble baston, Solo baston, Daga, Espada y daga, Bangkaw, balisong, Mano mano, Dos puntas Tres puntas. He also introduce us to Tatang Ilustrisimo, Mang Ben Lema, Jose Mena, Manong Cacoy Canete. GM Ernesto and his Brother the late GM Remy were pioneers of putting all the systems of FMA together. Because they realized that not all teachers were exposed or taught the complete system of FMA. So arnis was known as a weapon oriented art or just a stick art. 

Hope this helps.


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