# Backpacking.....



## Bob Hubbard (Sep 30, 2007)

Anyone do it?  Any tips for someone who last hiked 20 years ago with scouts? 

I'm looking at doing a week of backpacking in the woods next spring and haven't a clue what I'm in for.


----------



## michaeledward (Sep 30, 2007)

My suggestion is to think of the clothing you wear as equipment. 

If you were going to spend a great deal of time in the woods, you would certainly not skimp on your tent, your sleeping bag, your knife, or any of the other things commonly thought of as equipment. 

Be sure to invest in the best clothing you can afford for the occassion. Plan for the weather, and buy those damned twenty-five dollar underwear and high-tech socks. If you are comfortable, you will enjoy much more of what is out there for you to enjoy. If you are not comfortable, everything is going to suck.


----------



## bydand (Sep 30, 2007)

michaeledward said:


> My suggestion is to think of the clothing you wear as equipment.
> 
> If you were going to spend a great deal of time in the woods, you would certainly not skimp on your tent, your sleeping bag, your knife, or any of the other things commonly thought of as equipment.
> 
> Be sure to invest in the best clothing you can afford for the occassion. Plan for the weather, and buy those damned twenty-five dollar underwear and high-tech socks. If you are comfortable, you will enjoy much more of what is out there for you to enjoy. If you are not comfortable, everything is going to suck.



I would only change one thing with this post: 





> ... If you are not comfortable, everything is going to *suck*.


There that looks better.  Seriously though, the suggestion about the undies and socks are priceless tid-bits of information.  

Another suggestion I would add is to get into as many places that cater to hikers, and try on backpacks, then try some more, then get serious and really try on a few more.  As many as you can find, to get the one that fits you the best and is within whatever price range you are looking at.  There is so many different types out there it can be a bit daunting.  Personally I like Kelty, they fit my frame well and have the features I want, they may not feel good to you though.


----------



## jks9199 (Sep 30, 2007)

Michael has some good advice...  Start walking and doing some day hikes now, and build up what you carry.  Buy your boots several months in advance, and get them broken in.  Make sure your pack fits...  In fact, I'd recommend at least two shakedowns before the big trip.  The first one should be somewhere like a campground; all you're trying to do is make sure you know how to set up the tent, and use the rest of your gear IN THE FIELD.  The campground gives you an easy fallback...  The second one should be just an overnight trip...  This one is when you're giving how you pack, etc. a test, as well as one more check of how to use your gear in the field.  In the MD/DC/VA area, I'd suggest doing it on the C&O Canal; the campsites are predetermined, it's easy walking...  Good place for shakedowns.  I'm sure if you check around, you can find somewhere similar nearby.


----------



## Tames D (Sep 30, 2007)

All good advice. I would only add one thing. Bring the largest caliber pistol you could carry on your person.


----------



## CoryKS (Oct 1, 2007)

Go light - only carry what you need.  Get a pack with a hip belt to distribute the weight off of your shoulders.

Get comfortable hiking shoes/boots and break them in prior to your trip.  Carry moleskin anyway.

Wear a layer of body armor or similar moisture-wicking fabric.  Have a looser outer layer handy in case it gets cold, and finally a waterproof shell in case of rain.  Avoid cotton like the water-sponging deadweight that it is.  Spandex biker shorts are a good alternative to underwear.

Get some good waterproof pouches for things like maps, matches, id, money and electronics such as cameras or a phone.  Anything else that can get a little wet, such as toiletries, can go in ziploc bags, but ziplocs are not dependable for "absolutely cannot get wet" items.

Eat your final meal for the day about a half-hour to an hour before you stop hiking for the day to keep the aroma of food out of your camp.  Keep all food, soap, and toiletries in a separate bag that can be hung from a tree limb.  Especially if you have Yogis. 

Keep a change of clothes in your car to change into when you return, for you shall be fun_kay_.

Important items:  TP, matches, first aid kit, toothpaste/brush, map, compass, emergency funds, id and medical ins. card.

Nice to have: camera, GPS - I hiked the Ozark Trail last May, and at a poorly marked intersection I ended up on a logging road instead of the trail.  By comparing the trail of dashes on my GPS to my topo map, I was able to correct the error without having to backtrack for miles.

Here are two pieces of equipment I got great use out of:
http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/pocket_rocket.asp
http://products.katadyn.com/brands-...ralight_Series_25/Katadyn_Bottle_075L_31.html

This is by no means a complete list, but these are some of the things that quickly come to mind when looking back at my last trip.  Hope this helps.


----------



## MA-Caver (Oct 1, 2007)

Everyone has good tips/advice and I'll have to agree with CoryKS on going light. If you haven't gone in a while then yeah you're gonna hate it lugging all that heavy stuff... especially depending upon the terrain. I used to lug 40-50 lb packs and realized that I was killing myself for nothing and ended up not using half of what I brought. Thus I re-configured and downsized. My main pack is still large enough to carry an individual sized weeks worth of stuff (food,clothes) but the pack ends up being around 25-30 (big difference I'll tell ya) because of the resizing and minimizing my gear. 
On several occasions I've stowed a hammock (no spreader bars -- made those myself out of tree branches intended for the fire, fleece sleeping bag and a large mosquito mesh that'll go over a line strung above the hammock and bingo a nice set up. If it looks lika rain then a small tarp done the same way as the mesh. Either that or find the lightest tent and the lightest weight sleeping bag you can... especially one that can compress to say... fit inside a coffee can or smaller. If it gets cold where you're going then fleece sleeping bag for a liner and wool socks and polyproplyne undies should keep ya toasty. That and your favorite model--err subject of photography.  
I do like the freeze dried stuff (though not ALL of them) and thus carry a JetBoil System to get those going. The plus side of the freeze dried dinners is that they're light weight and quick to cook and by and large they're really not THAT bad at all. Some are very good. Likewise you cook/eat in the bag itself and use (my preference) lexan utinsels, and the waste (bag) can be scrunched down so to not take up much space in your pack. The minus would be carrying extra water (not that much more but..) for cooking unless you're going to be near a water-source (and have a *good* water filteration system). 
Dress for the weather and then a few degrees colder (if you're going up altitude). Definitely break in your boots if you get new ones. 

Most importantly... 

*
HAVE FUN!*


----------



## benj13bowlin (Oct 1, 2007)

I spent a year as a Calvary Scout while I was in the Army, and I agree with the other posters.  Your boots are probably the most important part.  Break them in early, I would recommend walking about 100 miles in them before going on any long hikes.  Take moleskin for sure, neosporin, lots of water/water filter, and trash bags.  Also line the inside of your pack with a trashbag.  This will keep your clothes and food dry no matter how much it rains.  If you tie the trashbag off well enough to get a seal your pack will also float.  Probably the most fun I had in the scouts was swimming across a small lake on Fort Hood in full combat gear using my rucksack as a kickboard.


----------



## shesulsa (Oct 1, 2007)

Good advice here already - here's a few more tips:

1. Register at the trail head and check out when you return.

2. Carry a silver emergency blanket - they are not only good for warmth but for signalling as well.

3. Get a signal alert for hikers - well worth it if snow and its extended family decide to drop in.

4. DO carry the pistol.

5. DO carry at least two knives.

6. DO learn about scat bags and please make use of such.  Something stalking human prey will follow your ah ... trail.

7. DON'T go alone your first time.

8. Use a walking stick whether you need it or not.

9.  DON'T USE ANY PERFUMED PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS!!!! My dad, a scoutmaster in life, repeatedly shared the tale of a boy in his pack who insisted on wearing pomade and who awoke to a bear licking his head.

10. Any meds, gum, mints, cough drops ... anything that goes in your mouth (even your toothbrush) should go in the tree bag too.  Raccoons like to steal toothbrushes and eat allergy meds.


The suggestion that you practice with your gear is a really good tip - especially cooking with the equipment you'll be using.  You don't want to find out what doesn't work at all when you're a day's hike or three from your car.

Get a local plant identification manual and an Army Survival Guide (both available cheap at B & N) and take them with you.  

ENJOY!!


----------



## jks9199 (Oct 1, 2007)

A couple of more points...

Regarding the pistol/other firearms:  Check the laws; park rangers ARE law enforcement officers, who can, do, and will arrest you for things like carrying an illegal gun.  Same thing with any cops you encounter enroute...  

I didn't hit a lot of specifics, like bear bags, etc. because a lot depends on exactly where you're going.  The SNP is a different place from Yosemite which is different from Hawaii or Brazil or Chile or somewhere in Africa or Europe...  

Food:  There are lots of good, prepared freeze dried stuff out there, designed and marketed for backpacking.  There's also lots of equally good, and significantly cheaper stuff in your grocery store.  Check the backpaking mags and websites; there'll be plenty of tips in that regard.  

Planning & preparation:  Obviously, nothing beats proper planning.  But Bob already knows that; he's put together Meet & Greets and other things over the years.  There are two very important things for backpacking planning that are all too often overlooked, though.  The first is a repeat: Register at the trailhead; make sure that the folks who run the place know roughly where you'll be.  The second actually comes first...  Make sure someone at home has your itinerary (including planned camp site areas, routes, etc), departure time, and return time.  Add one more thing:  A "if you haven't heard from me by... send help!" deadline.  

Regarding hammocks...  I love 'em.  In fact, I've camped for several days with no more shelter than a hammock & rain fly.  Using a hammock vastly increases your potential campsites (especially since I swear that almost any decent campsite in the SNP has a "no camping notice" smack dab in the middle anymore...), and it's something that you can easily set up for a rest at a meal break, or at camp as an alternative to sitting on the ground.

Cameras:  Bob knows cameras better than I do.  But think about weight...  I know some professional wildlife/outdoor photographers carry 2 cameras; on is in the pack and available when time permits.  The other is around their neck, and set to go on a moment's notice.  Lots of shots will occur before you have time to get a camera out or turn it on...  A few years ago, I was on a day hike in the SNP.  One member of the group almost literally walked into the strange guy wearing the fur coat on the trail in the summer... Oh, wait -- that was a bear!  I missed that shot because my camera was in my pack, took a couple of seconds to turn on... so all I got was trees with "there's a bear somewhere in there, really!"

Two things will make a backpacking trip miserable:  Sore feet, and a sore back.  Break your boots in, carry moleskin, molefoam and other such stuff for dealing with blisters, and take care of your feet.  Make sure your pack fits, and that you're in shape for hiking, and stretch to take care of your back.


----------



## Bigshadow (Oct 1, 2007)

Damn this is a good thread!  I don't have anything to add, but it sure sounds like a alot of fun!    I am getting all revved up just reading it.  I am going to have to look into it for myself.


----------



## rutherford (Oct 1, 2007)

Hey, Bob.  You going with a group?  Is it open to anybody?  I've been looking to get hooked up with a new group.


----------



## CoryKS (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's a link to a site with a lot of good info on gear and destinations.

http://gorp.away.com/index.html


----------



## terryl965 (Oct 1, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Good advice here already - here's a few more tips:
> 
> 1. Register at the trail head and check out when you return.
> 
> ...


 
I can only say this is some great advice.


----------



## Blotan Hunka (Oct 1, 2007)

Break in some good boots. Walk. After a while start walking with a pack of increasing loads (try to get to the weight you will be packing). Drink water.


----------



## Blindside (Oct 1, 2007)

If you were in scouts you should remember the 10 essentials, the list is still valid. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials

With regard to the pistol decision, it really is personal choice, I've been hiking in black and griz country for most of my life, and I've never felt the need for a firearm.  Run a clean camp, be loud on the trail, and don't try to pet he cute little cub and you should be fine.  

If you do choose to carry, there are a number of hip belt pounches that will neatly contain a pistol, but look like a pounch for a GPS unit.  It'll keep the weapon accessible but concealed from people who wouldn't agree with your decision.

Lamont


----------



## bydand (Oct 1, 2007)

Blindside said:


> If you were in scouts you should remember the 10 essentials, the list is still valid.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Essentials



Agreed!  Plus a telling note is number 2.  





> Compass (optionally supplemented with a GPS receiver)


 notice is says a compass *supplemented* with a GPS and not a GPS supplemented with a compass.  While I like GPS units, and I like my compass; I like to use both. There have been a place where I couldn't get enough satellites to get a fix with the GPS and the compass was nice, and another time there was a field of iron ore in the mountain top and the GPS was more reliable than the compass.

Both are useless as boobies on a boar with out a good topo map, and a plan though.


----------



## Sukerkin (Oct 1, 2007)

Wonderful to hear opinions from people I trust about conditions I've never had to experience :tup:.

I've had an extensive caving and camping history (mostly done via bicycle power so I can concur utterly with the 'reduce weight' motif! ) but never had to deal with environments that include truly dangerous (non-human) predators.

The best advice I can proffer has already been offered.  Boots, socks, pants (English for 'underwear).  If you don't put those first then everything else is moot.  Then a waterprroof means of carrying stuff.  Following those is a reliable source of fire and light.

I've not had to cope with anything other than the weather trying to kill me so I can't speak to others more experienced advice.

*Wet* kills more than anything else is the most sage wisdom I can offer.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Oct 1, 2007)

Some excellent advice already presented.

I guess we have a slightly different perspective to people from places with rain.

The things I make sure I always have when going bush are:
good boots
a good compass and a quality map.
a good hat
plenty of water containers (at least 4 litres preferably)
a snake bite kit

Other than that, I tend to keep it light and only take the essentials. 

We don't tend to have problems with large animals, only snakes and spiders.


----------



## michaeledward (Oct 1, 2007)

Blindside said:


> With regard to the pistol decision, it really is personal choice, I've been hiking in black and griz country for most of my life, and I've never felt the need for a firearm. Run a clean camp, be loud on the trail, and don't try to pet he cute little cub and you should be fine.
> 
> Lamont


 
Thank you .... 

As I was reading this thread, and the comments on carrying a weapon, I thought I must be nuts. I spend a pretty good amount of time outdoors, and here in the Northeast, we have black bears, but I just can't imagine carrying a firearm. I was thinking in some other parts of the country, maybe they need to do differently. 

I was fishing in Canada, when a black bear wanted to cross the river where we were fishing ... we yelled at him, stomped and made some noise ... he moved down river about 60 or 70 yards and crossed there. I know it was his river; and I was in his spot, but he was kind enough to not have to prove the point. That has always been the way I have found wildlife. 

<shrugg> Glad to know I'm not crazy.


----------



## Blindside (Oct 1, 2007)

michaeledward said:


> Thank you ....
> 
> As I was reading this thread, and the comments on carrying a weapon, I thought I must be nuts. I spend a pretty good amount of time outdoors, and here in the Northeast, we have black bears, but I just can't imagine carrying a firearm. I was thinking in some other parts of the country, maybe they need to do differently.


 
Oh, I can imagine carrying a firearm, and probably will once my son (and other future children) start going out into the field with me.  I'm actually more concerned with cougar than bear, as an adult I'm not too worried, my kid(s) are something else entirely.  Kids are small enough, and weird enough to attract attention from potential predators.

Lamont


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Oct 1, 2007)

Wow!  Lots of great advice.  Thank you!   Gonna take me a bit to process everything.

couple of quick comments:

guns - don't have a permit, and I believe the NY state parks don't allow em.  But, I'll be carrying knives, and a sturdy walking stick. (old oak flagpole cut to size)

Group - possibly later.  Initial trips will probably be my GF and me, but I'm totally open to hooking up with others. 


Found these links, 
http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/survivalkit.asp
http://backpacker.com/backpacking101/
and have been spending lots of time on Google.

I've been considering an ALICE pack, sportsmansguide has em within my budget.  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=69853   These any good?  I have a pack from my scouting days, but it's a bit worn and doesn't "feel" right when I've worn it the last few years.

As to boots, I've got a pair of tankers boots that so far have been comfortable when walking.

I'm taking the fall and winter to work on my cardio, as I'm far from ready to go on any type of serious hike right now.  In the mean time, I research, and slowly pick up the gear I need.


----------



## Tames D (Oct 1, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Oh, I can imagine carrying a firearm, and probably will once my son (and other future children) start going out into the field with me. I'm actually more concerned with cougar than bear, as an adult I'm not too worried, my kid(s) are something else entirely. Kids are small enough, and weird enough to attract attention from potential predators.
> 
> Lamont


Thank you. You beat me to it. Cougars are my main concern. Not too worried about bears and snakes. But where we like to go, the cougars will attack ( and do attack) you without provocation.


----------



## jks9199 (Oct 1, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> Break in some good boots. Walk. After a while start walking with a pack of increasing loads (try to get to the weight you will be packing). Drink water.


Water's another good point.  If you're buying a new pack -- I'd look for the ability to carry a Camelback or similar water bladder.  I used to be pretty good at pulling a canteen out of one of the side pockets of my backpack on the move, drinking, and returning it... but it was never as simple as just pulling the bitepiece on my Cameback is!


----------



## Blindside (Oct 2, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I've been considering an ALICE pack, sportsmansguide has em within my budget. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=69853 These any good? I have a pack from my scouting days, but it's a bit worn and doesn't "feel" right when I've worn it the last few years.
> 
> As to boots, I've got a pair of tankers boots that so far have been comfortable when walking.


 
I think I've packed one of those before, but quite frankly I'd spend the money on a decent civilian kit first.  The modern load bearing harnesses on both external and internal frame packs are light years ahead of the ALICE.  On the plus side, the ALICE is pretty cheap.

Also, I'm assuming you are building up a supply for the GF as well, there are several commercial pack types built for specifically for womens body shapes in mind, you might want to look into them.

Spend the money on good boots, blisters suck, I've been wearing Vasque Sundowners for (yikes!) 20 years now, and I swear by them.  

Lamont


----------



## Cruentus (Oct 2, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Anyone do it? Any tips for someone who last hiked 20 years ago with scouts?
> 
> I'm looking at doing a week of backpacking in the woods next spring and haven't a clue what I'm in for.


 
There is a lot of good advice here, so I don't need to add to it. But know that you can always call or PM me for advice; as I am sure you probably know Bob, wilderness/field survival is more then just a hobby of mine...


----------



## Cruentus (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh... 

An Alice pack is a great, cheap, basic pack and something you can definatily get by with. I recommend rigging a small camelbak over the top, however, as this will greatly improve your hikes.

But if you want something a little more for not too much more money, I really like these: http://www.rangerjoes.com/pack-phenix-gear-cfp-style-with-patrol-pack-p-3757.html

You can rig a camelpak on or even in those too.

That site, btw, is great for picking up gear that you might need, so you might want to take the time to look around...

C.


----------



## shesulsa (Oct 2, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Oh, I can imagine carrying a firearm, and probably will once my son (and other future children) start going out into the field with me.  I'm actually more concerned with cougar than bear, as an adult I'm not too worried, my kid(s) are something else entirely.  Kids are small enough, and weird enough to attract attention from potential predators.
> 
> Lamont





QUI-GON said:


> Thank you. You beat me to it. Cougars are my main concern. Not too worried about bears and snakes. But where we like to go, the cougars will attack ( and do attack) you without provocation.


Yup - cougar (a.k.a. "mountain lion") are the main threat here, in fact we like to camp in a town called Cougar named for its prolific resident.  We used to call our kids (and sometimes still do) "Cat Snack" ... they get wide eyed and usually wind up all sleeping in the same tent for some strange reason  

Seriously, they will take down a grown man without provocation - rumor has it they have gotten so hungry they've attacked people on horseback about 20 minutes from my home. 

But honestly ... I'm more leery of the bipeds.


----------



## Blotan Hunka (Oct 2, 2007)

Cruentus said:


> Oh...
> 
> An Alice pack is a great, cheap, basic pack and something you can definatily get by with. I recommend rigging a small camelbak over the top, however, as this will greatly improve your hikes.
> 
> ...


 
Ive humped my share of clicks under an ALICE and yeah, on a price/quality scale its alright. But the first time I went hiking with a good internal frame pack, the comfort level was MUCH improved. So I guess the issue with a pack for Bob should be based on how much he plans to carry, how far he plans to haul it and how much he wants to spend.

Im my experience, boots are top of the comfort list for hiking with pack being number 2.


----------



## Blotan Hunka (Oct 2, 2007)

Other things that come to mind:

Food: Pastas are great, keep a long time, easy to store and prepare. Canned tuna for protien (remember a can opener). Trail mixes, oatmeal.

A good cook stove. Learn how to prime and start it BEFORE you take it to the woods.

Clothes: Easiest thing to overpack. Dont stuff your pack full of clothes. You dont need a full change of clothes for each day youre out there. Yes that includes underwear and socks (this is camping, toughen up lol.) . A clean pair to change into while the others air out is all you need. Pack something for inclimate weather and perhaps an extra change of clothes and thats it.

Dont pack full tubes of toothpaste, soaps, spices, powders etc. Buy little plastic bottles or film containers and put those in a zip lock bag.

Zip lock bags for waterproofing.

If bears may be in the area learn the right way to hang your food bag (and ANY odorous stuff like toothpaste). I have been the only person left at a campsite after the bears took everybody elses improperly hung food.

A water filter is better than packing a ton of water around with you.

A good ground mat is worth every penny. Ive had great nights in a cheap sleeping bag on a good ground mat and terrible ones in a -20 bag without one. And a good stocking hat on a cold night is a godsend.


----------



## CoryKS (Oct 2, 2007)

Guns not allowed in state parks?  No problem!  Just do what this guy did.  Well, don't _exactly_ do what this guy did, because you never know when you need your buddy to give you a hand.  Er, figuratively.


----------



## Cruentus (Oct 2, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> Im my experience, boots are top of the comfort list for hiking with pack being number 2.


 
I agree with that. Also, a nice pair of fox river socks helps too.


----------



## MA-Caver (Oct 2, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Wow!  Lots of great advice.  Thank you!   Gonna take me a bit to process everything.
> Group - possibly later.  Initial trips will probably be my GF and me, but I'm totally open to hooking up with others.


On the GF thing... if you're going into an area where there are bears and other large predators... make sure she's umm, not... menstruating. Male (and sometimes female) Bears and other preds will come a running for that just as much as smelling good food. There's been some records of women being attacked because they were in their cycle. So a simple heads up, back of the mind thing on planning the date. 



Bob Hubbard said:


> As to boots, I've got a pair of tankers boots that so far have been comfortable when walking.



Personally speaking (and I think the others will agree here), hiking and walking are NOT the same thing. The things you have to contend with during hiking is mainly un-even terrain which puts more of a shock load on your feet, ankles and legs. Those three will be twisted, turned, contorted in ways that don't happen when simply walking across your living room floor or sidewalk or down the hall in your office. So what's comfortable on a nice flat level surface may be miserable on a simple hiking trail. 
Balance is important... hey you're a MA you know that...right? Thus understanding where your center of gravity is while trekking on uneven terrain is important. Taking a day hike with a heavy pack to a ... uncivilized (unpaved, un-even) area/trail will help you appreciate that and thus make you better prepared for a multi-day excersion.


----------



## Makalakumu (Oct 2, 2007)

QUI-GON said:


> All good advice. I would only add one thing. Bring the largest caliber pistol you could carry on your person.


 
That depends on where you are going.  If you are hiking Isle Royale National Park, there is absolutely no need for a pistol.  There's no one there to worry about except your fellow man...and anyone who commits anything on that place has VERY few places to run.  Plus, it costs a lot to get there and that keeps out the riff raff.


----------



## Makalakumu (Oct 2, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Wow! Lots of great advice. Thank you!  Gonna take me a bit to process everything.
> 
> couple of quick comments:
> 
> ...


 
Bob, if you are just State Parking it, don't worry about some of the preparations that you would have to take if you were going to somewhere farther out.  Get the best stuff you can afford and go out and have fun.  When I was a kid, my parents couldn't afford to send me off to my Boy Scout outings with the best stuff.  In fact, I was the archtypical "Ronald Weasley" of the troop.  If you make mistakes, you learn from them.  And that is part of the FUN!!!


----------



## Makalakumu (Oct 2, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Yup - cougar (a.k.a. "mountain lion") are the main threat here, in fact we like to camp in a town called Cougar named for its prolific resident. We used to call our kids (and sometimes still do) "Cat Snack" ... they get wide eyed and usually wind up all sleeping in the same tent for some strange reason
> 
> Seriously, they will take down a grown man without provocation - rumor has it they have gotten so hungry they've attacked people on horseback about 20 minutes from my home.
> 
> But honestly ... I'm more leery of the bipeds.


 
Yup.  You have much more to fear from your fellow humans then any other predator in many wilderness areas.  

The best defense against a cougar, bring a dog and a gun.  Your simian senses are nothing compared to that of your canine friends...and most cougars will leave groups with dogs alone, because that is how we hunt them...


----------



## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> On the GF thing... if you're going into an area where there are bears and other large predators... make sure she's umm, not... menstruating. Male (and sometimes female) Bears and other preds will come a running for that just as much as smelling good food. There's been some records of women being attacked because they were in their cycle. So a simple heads up, back of the mind thing on planning the date.


I'm so glad you posted this.  My troop hasn't been backpack camping yet and when last I did I didn't have children and arranged the trip around my period for that very reason.

I haven't yet consulted with any outdoor survival experts on handling the particular toileting needs of females in the wilderness should it happen to occur off schedule (for me, just putting a suitcase or a pack in the car seems to bring it on :angry:  ).  Does anyone here have any expertise in this area?  The info could be useful in the future to Bob's GF and other women interested in backpacking.

Thanks!


----------



## Cruentus (Oct 3, 2007)

That's a very good question. I have no idea, being that I am male. :idunno:


----------



## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2007)

Cruentus said:


> That's a very good question. I have no idea, being that I am male. :idunno:




See, for me in the GSUSA organization, we plan for an event WELL in advance - like ... a year, sometimes two or three in advance and only under dire circumstances will we cancel.  If we put some significant fundraising hours in and a few thousand dollars towards a campout, the girls are not likely to give in because they're OTR.  And as a cleared adult, I can't cancel either - these girls are in my charge, I can't cancel because I"M OTR.

What I'm thinking is that the sad truth is that if you're gonna be with bear or cougar, ya better not be bleeding, end of story.  I hope there's a real alternative.


----------



## Cruentus (Oct 3, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> What I'm thinking is that the sad truth is that if you're gonna be with bear or cougar, ya better not be bleeding, end of story. I hope there's a real alternative.


 
You could take up professional bodybuilding, steriods and all, and you won't have to worry about bleeding...ever.. :lol:

But seriously, this is a geat article on that topic that I dug up. They talk mostly about bears, but later in the article they go over precautions one can take... 

http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/menstruation_data.html


----------



## Carol (Oct 3, 2007)

My suggestion would be to look in to a good quality flashlight.

I don't do any camping or backpacking but I do work second shift in rural New Hampshire.   A tactical flashlight can scare off a lot of predators...two legged and four legged alike.  It can be an effective ranged weapon. 

Plus...a really bright light is just plain handy to have in the dark.


----------



## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2007)

Cruentus said:


> You could take up professional bodybuilding, steriods and all, and you won't have to worry about bleeding...ever.. :lol:
> 
> But seriously, this is a geat article on that topic that I dug up. They talk mostly about bears, but later in the article they go over precautions one can take...
> 
> http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/menstruation_data.html


That's pretty much what I've been able to find and learn as well.  Thanks "C".


----------

