# Racists idiots



## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2017)

I have seen it on the news, and I have worried about Mrs. Xue when she is out shopping as well as the oldest who is away in college, but there has been more than one incident of some idiot seeing a foreign face and thinking he has the right to attack that person just because they have a foreign face;  they feel justified because they are convinced that foreign face is here illegally, or is a terrorist, or taking an Americans job or they are simply a racist idiot who has been emboldened by what has been going on politically in America these days.

Mrs. Xue is Chinese and she was at the bank yesterday. As she walked out of the bank there was a guy behind her speaking profanities and saying things like I should kill you, I should shoot you in the head.

Mrs. Xue, being Mrs. Xue, thought nothing of it and was wondering who this guy was talking to. Mrs. Xue got in her car, the profane threatening guy got in his pickup truck. Then the profane threatening guy backup his truck, pulled directly in front of her car, rolled down his window and continued his profanity laced threatening tirade while pointing at her.

I have no idea why this idiot did this, or who he was, I was not there to see it, but I can say that Mrs Xue is not a terrorist, she is here legally, and she most certainly is not taking the job of any person in this country, certainly not the profane threatening idiot, she is a doctor, graduated #1 in her class, stated her own practice from the ground up, and to be frank, I seriously doubt the profane threatening idiot has the brain capacity to have actually completed high school.

This emboldened, racist, anti-immigrant idiocy, has got to stop. It most certainly is not what this country was founded on.

Enough from me, any more and I will show exactly how angry this profane idiot makes me.


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## Steve (Nov 10, 2017)

This is what happens when these guys receive tacit approval from the top.  I’m sorry this happened to your family.  It’s infuriating.


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## Buka (Nov 10, 2017)

I'm sorry, too. Did she happen to get the plate number? I have an idea.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 10, 2017)

Like you Xue my wife has received racist threats from time to time.  All from racist, bigoted idiots.  The current mood among some people in our country is disheartening.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> I have seen it on the news, and I have worried about Mrs. Xue when she is out shopping as well as the oldest who is away in college, but there has been more than one incident of some idiot seeing a foreign face and thinking he has the right to attack that person just because they have a foreign face;  they feel justified because they are convinced that foreign face is here illegally, or is a terrorist, or taking an Americans job or they are simply a racist idiot who has been emboldened by what has been going on politically in America these days.
> 
> Mrs. Xue is Chinese and she was at the bank yesterday. As she walked out of the bank there was a guy behind her speaking profanities and saying things like I should kill you, I should shoot you in the head.
> 
> ...


Sorry you have experienced this.  It's a curse and benefit at the same time.  It makes the reality of society that much clearer, but it's also not a pleasant experience.  As someone who has been through this and more.  You just have to get tough and understand that everyone isn't like that, but there's enough like that guy to cause problems.   Sort of like everyone isn't a murder but there's enough of them out there to cause problems.

This will sound stupid but the best thing is to take the higher road and not to give any actions or responses that may validate their racists mindsets.  In the case, she just has to be herself and not respond to the guy.  In my case, if I act too tough or show outward anger then, I become the "Dangerous Black Man."  Each racial group has their own stereo type, including white people.  The key is not to do anything that feeds into that stereo type because that's what they want.   They want you to react in a way that makes them feel as if their actions are validated.  That's why they insult and threaten the person in hopes that they will say or do something that will validate their idiot logic.

For example,  if they think you (you in general) are an illegal then simply tell them to call the police if they think that is true.  This is a response that they don't expect.  What they are expecting is for the person to claim that they are in the U.S. legally and to get into some heated debated with hundreds of reason that had nothing to do with the first one.  If you prove that you are here legally then they will just change it to, taking jobs, or some other stupid logic.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> The current mood among some people in our country is disheartening.


I'm glad it's coming out because for the longest people were saying that it didn't exist anymore, even though there were others who were telling leaders that it does.  Now that it's out in the open in the U.S.  people can see the reality of it, how deep it goes, and identify those who are no longer "closet racists."

It's better to have problems in the light than hiding in the darkness.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 10, 2017)

One of our dojo students, an adult woman who is married to a retired US serviceman, is originally from the Philippines.  Her car was hit in the parking lot of a store nearby (she hadn't even gotten into the car yet, it was motionless), and the man who hit her car proceeded to call her every racist term in the book, to her face, and said that now that (won't say the name, you know who it is) is in charge, it won't be long before she gets 'sent back where she came from'.  This despite the fact that she is a legal immigrant, a naturalized US citizen, and married to a man who have served our military with distinction for more than 20 years.  And *he* hit *her* motionless car in the parking lot, mind you!

I have heard it.  I have seen it.  It's worse than I have ever seen or heard in my 56 years in these United States.  I've never seen racism or bigotry worse than it is right now.  Or at least, it's more open now.  It's more obvious.  People who apparently have harbored this kind of hatred in their hearts but who have been afraid to speak their minds now feel empowered to spew every racist thought they have.

I have intentionally dropped my contact with family members over this suddenly-OK racism and bigotry.  I have blocked people here on MT.  I have blocked people on FB and other social media, people I thought were my friends.  Yet the most hateful things come spewing out of their evil mouths and think I'm going to be OK with it or something.  I'm not OK with it, and I make it very clear that I won't put up with it.  Not jokes, not insinuations, not political maundering, none of it.  Not now, not ever.  

Some of these 'groups' who feel it's OK to march around waving various flags and rendering various kinds of salutes seem to think I should be OK with it because I was born in this country and my skin color is white.  Well, sport, I'm Catholic.  If you are a member of one of 'those' groups, I am aware of the fact that you don't just hate certain middle-eastern religions, you hate mine too.  So, no, you are not my friend.  Not my family.  We may share skin tone, but you ain't my kind, and you need to understand that if you step to me spewing that hatred, I'll knock every one of your damned teeth out.  I'm not tolerant of racists or bigots.  Try me and find out.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2017)

Buka said:


> I'm sorry, too. Did she happen to get the plate number? I have an idea.



Sadly no, my wife took this much better than I did when she told me this morning. I have told her to get the plate number next time, if possible


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 10, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm glad it's coming out because for the longest people were saying that it didn't exist anymore, even though there were others who were telling leaders that it does.  Now that it's out in the open in the U.S.  people can see the reality of it, how deep it goes, and identify those who are no longer "closet racists."
> 
> It's better to have problems in the light than hiding in the darkness.



The only good thing about it coming out is now I am learning that (former) friends and family of mine are not good people, whereas before they kept their true feelings hidden.  Now it's out in the open.

I have said this before and I'll say it again.  If anyone thinks they can pick on, intimidate, or spew hatred at a person of another color, race, gender, sexual identity or ethnic origin, they will have to get past me first.  All racists and bigots can step to me, I will end you.


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## Martial D (Nov 10, 2017)

@Xue Sheng 
Humans are a tribal animal, and tend to prefer their own group( race, nationality, class, people from their own town, their own family, etcetc)

No amount of liberal victimhood culture will ever change that imo.

With that said, who doesn't like Chinese people? Most overt racism is born of some negative stereotype, but not even the KKK or the storm front crowd has a problem with Asians afaik.

With all that said, I'm sorry your wife had such an encounter with a mentally disturbed individual. I would pop a dude in the mouth if I saw some crap like that happening.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Sorry you have experienced this.  It's a curse and benefit at the same time.  It makes the reality of society that much clearer, but it's also not a pleasant experience.  As someone who has been through this and more.  You just have to get tough and understand that everyone isn't like that, but there's enough like that guy to cause problems.   Sort of like everyone isn't a murder but there's enough of them out there to cause problems.
> 
> This will sound stupid but the best thing is to take the higher road and not to give any actions or responses that may validate their racists mindsets.  In the case, she just has to be herself and not respond to the guy.  In my case, if I act too tough or show outward anger then, I become the "Dangerous Black Man."  Each racial group has their own stereo type, including white people.  The key is not to do anything that feeds into that stereo type because that's what they want.   They want you to react in a way that makes them feel as if their actions are validated.  That's why they insult and threaten the person in hopes that they will say or do something that will validate their idiot logic.
> 
> For example,  if they think you (you in general) are an illegal then simply tell them to call the police if they think that is true.  This is a response that they don't expect.  What they are expecting is for the person to claim that they are in the U.S. legally and to get into some heated debated with hundreds of reason that had nothing to do with the first one.  If you prove that you are here legally then they will just change it to, taking jobs, or some other stupid logic.



She has been here over 15 years and this is the most outrageous incident she has had to deal with.

My wife does not anger easily, (that is unless she is dealing with me ). She did not even think he was talking to her at first, it was not until he backed up his pickup and stopped in front of her parked car that she realized he was talking to her. She simply wanted him to go away so she took no action and ignored him as much as possible.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's worse than I have ever seen or heard in my 56 years in these United States. I've never seen racism or bigotry worse than it is right now. Or at least, it's more open now. It's more obvious. People who apparently have harbored this kind of hatred in their hearts but who have been afraid to speak their minds now feel empowered to spew every racist thought they have.


It's always been this bad.  In the past, about 8 years ago, it was hidden and done on the sly.  In this scenario the guy may not have been open about it, but he would have gone home or around his friends and would have stated the same things.  

A lot of it was in the workplace where decisions about employees could be made within a racist context.  No one would really know because it wasn't so open.  On the victim's end you could see it but wouldn't have a way of really proving it.  This is why the term "playing the race card" came about.  People were really experiencing racism but didn't have a way to prove it, since it wasn't done in obvious way.  What you are seeing now is the idea that it's ok to be racists and racists in the open.  This is new.  In the past a flawed reason was always attached to racism, but now they don't even need a reason.  It's  "I hate you because I want to, and I'm not going to be politically correct about it."

There's a lot of hate in the U.S. and it's been boiling under the surface for the longest.  I'm not only talking about hate against another ethnicity.  I'm talking about hate for the sake of being hateful.  

My biggest concern isn't so much the hate because, hate never wins.  Slavery was the biggest challenge, we got passed that and became better people and a better country as a whole.  Any hate stuff from now on should be easier to stomp out.  My biggest concern is this embrace of anarchy and anti-government talk that seems to have grown stronger.   I understand that the government can do the wrong thing but tearing down the government isn't the answer.  The government is a reflection of the people.  So the ills that are in our government are the same ills that are in society.  If people want to fix the government than fix the society.  Hate only breeds more hate.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 10, 2017)

Martial D said:


> @Xue Sheng
> Humans are a tribal animal, and tend to prefer their own group( race, nationality, class, people from their own town, their own family, etcetc)
> 
> No amount of liberal victimhood culture will ever change that imo.
> ...



Racism is a symptom of a broken culture, but individually, it is a sign of a weak mind and a poison soul.  Racists are not good people. They may live among us, have jobs, raise families, and appear to be decent and kind and upright in public.  But if they harbor racists beliefs, they are not those things.  They are evil, they belong in Hell.  I don't care what else they might have done right in their lives, if they hate people for the color of their skin or their religion or their national origin, they're the most awful scumbags drawing breath, and if anyone has a problem with that, they are free to take it up with me in person.  I hate racists.  I do not grant them any kind of justification for their evil, for their poison.  They ought not to exist.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Martial D said:


> but not even the KKK or the storm front crowd has a problem with Asians afaik.


KKK does not like any ethnicity that is not the same as their own.  They also do not like Asians and say as much in their literature.   The things about Asian is that they see the countries as countries that do not accept other races.  They also believe that Asians are smarter.  But even with that, they don't want asians in the U.S. because they want the U.S. to be all white people for white people.   (long story short.  I check out the KKK website and propaganda from time to time and I knew the son of a KKK member in highschool.)

The KKK would like black people too, but only if we were all in Africa and not in the U.S.   If a white person isn't "pure blood" then the KKK won't like that person either.  In other words a drop of black blood in the DNA makes a white person a black person in their eyes.

As for Chinese people.  There are a lot of people who don't like Chinese people or Japanese people.  Much of this dislike and hate comes from cultural differences.  With the Japanese much of that hate stems from what happened during WII and how Japanese Soldiers treated others in the countries that they captured.   The KKK is about racial purity so their hate comes form a different well.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> She has been here over 15 years and this is the most outrageous incident she has had to deal with.
> 
> My wife does not anger easily, (that is unless she is dealing with me ). She did not even think he was talking to her at first, it was not until he backed up his pickup and stopped in front of her parked car that she realized he was talking to her. She simply wanted him to go away so she took no action and ignored him as much as possible.


I've been in the U.S 45 years (since birth) and it doesn't matter and doesn't have an effect on racist people.   All they need is someone that doesn't look like them or come from the same "DNA Blood Pool"  that they come from.  Some parts of the U.S. are worse than others.   

Your wife did the right thing.  It takes a stronger person to ignore them.  I'm sure the situation will "leaves a bad tastes in the mouth" for her.   It's not so much of what they say that is remembered as is the feeling one has when that person that says it.   The feeling of not belonging or accept as part of the society that you live in is a unique feeling.  The good news is that after that initial stun, she will get over it and be stronger for it.  It just sucks that she experienced it.  My wife is from the Philippines and I know how I get when people say racists things to her on the sly.  I could only imagine how mad I would be if they went all out like what happened to your wife.  It would be difficult for me to follow my own advice,  I just have to remember not to be the Angry Dangerous Black Man lol, and come to terms that this is once incident with an idiot who is looking for a validation for his hate.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Racism is a symptom of a broken culture, but individually, it is a sign of a weak mind and a poison soul.  Racists are not good people. They may live among us, have jobs, raise families, and appear to be decent and kind and upright in public.  But if they harbor racists beliefs, they are not those things.  They are evil, they belong in Hell.  I don't care what else they might have done right in their lives, if they hate people for the color of their skin or their religion or their national origin, they're the most awful scumbags drawing breath, and if anyone has a problem with that, they are free to take it up with me in person.  I hate racists.  I do not grant them any kind of justification for their evil, for their poison.  They ought not to exist.


A lot of evil in this world has been done in the name of racism.  A lot of people on both sides suffer because of it.  You would think we has humans would understand how destructive it is.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 10, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> A lot of evil in this world has been done in the name of racism.  A lot of people on both sides suffer because of it.  You would think we has humans would understand how destructive it is.



Racism and bigotry should be viewed by society as a white blood cell views an infection; something to be immediately destroyed.  It's an evil and a perversion that will destroy society itself if it is not ripped out root and branch.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Racism and bigotry should be viewed by society as a white blood cell views an infection; something to be immediately destroyed.  It's an evil and a perversion that will destroy society itself if it is not ripped out root and branch.


 I totally agree.  There's plenty of historical evidence of this.


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 10, 2017)

things like this really upset me, down to my core.  my wife immigrated to the US about 10 years ago from Thailand and Just took her citizen test last week. she gets sworn in Nov 15.  we have never had to experience something like that yet, hopefully never do. but i live in a small town in Massachusetts and we have two young boys. they will be the only Asian kids in the school. it breaks my heart to think of what they might have to deal with growing up.
thats why their Dad insists they learn martial arts   lol


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I've been in the U.S 45 years (since birth) and it doesn't matter and doesn't have an effect on racist people.   All they need is someone that doesn't look like them or come from the same "DNA Blood Pool"  that they come from.  Some parts of the U.S. are worse than others.
> 
> Your wife did the right thing.  It takes a stronger person to ignore them.  I'm sure the situation will "leaves a bad tastes in the mouth" for her.   It's not so much of what they say that is remembered as is the feeling one has when that person that says it.   The feeling of not belonging or accept as part of the society that you live in is a unique feeling.  The good news is that after that initial stun, she will get over it and be stronger for it.  It just sucks that she experienced it.  My wife is from the Philippines and I know how I get when people say racists things to her on the sly.  I could only imagine how mad I would be if they went all out like what happened to your wife.  It would be difficult for me to follow my own advice,  I just have to remember not to be the Angry Dangerous Black Man lol, and come to terms that this is once incident with an idiot who is looking for a validation for his hate.



Frankly I was looking to break the guys neck.... she handled this much better than I did.

I have had a taste of being a minority, after almost 50 years of being the majority and after marrying my wife, we went to China and I went to all the places she went when she lived there. I was the only non-Asian as far as the eye could see most of the time. And being Blonde does not help in a black haired society either. Did not experience racism to the extent she did yesterday, but it was an eye opening experience.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 10, 2017)

May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.

According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.

According to modern social psychology, people form schemas in their head, based on their own biases/experiences (these can be their own experiences or someone elses. For instance, I may have had girls cheat on me, and as a result, think women in general cheat. Or my dad may have told me when I was younger about how much women cheat, and as a result have the same opinion, without ever experiencing it myself). Schemas are not always negative, and aren't always inaccurate. In reality, schemas are a good thing most of the time; they help your mind digest information from the past and not having to reassess everything, or having your brain go into overload (ex: I have a schema about bears that they are dangerous, so I try to avoid them, and if I saw bear tracks I would not follow them. If I did not have that schema based on stories I've heard, I would either have to size up the tracks to see if they're scary, taking up time out of my day, or not think about it and end up as bear food). They're also accurate a good portion of our time. The issue is that our brains are so used to simplifying information like this, that it will unconsciously do the same about whatever, and again, it will generally take the most prevalent features of whatever it sees to make it's judgments, resulting in prejudice based on skin color/sex/etc. It's almost impossible to stop schemas, especially since you don't want to stop most of them, only some of them, and they occur without you even realizing it.

If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept, let me know. If I wrote down everything I would be here for an hour, so I tried to shorten them to just the gists of each.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 10, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.
> 
> According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.
> 
> ...



I understand that.  I'm not stupid, and I'm pretty well-educated.

However, that's twaddle.  It's letting people have a reason for being hateful crapbags, and I won't have it.  I don't care what the core reason is for racism.  Be a racist in my presence at your own peril.  Simple as that.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> May be slightly off topic, but since you guys are talking about the need of eradicating racism, just want to add that, from a psychological viewpoint, that's either incredibly unlikely or impossible. If it does happen, it will transfer to some other negative prejudices and stereotypes.
> 
> According to evolutionary psychology, people have it hardwired into us to form in groups and out groups, that way we can better protect our in groups. This relies on an idea that those that are in your "out group" are different then you in some way, and in general it assumes that people believe there own "in group" is superior to whatever they consider the "out group" although that's not always the case. This is generally done according to something definitive, ie: race, religion, location, but that's not always the case. The idea is that everyone, even people who don't view themselves as prejudiced, forms these groups, and views there own groups. I see it with many of my 'open-minded' friends, whom denounce any sort of racism/sexism/etc., but then will state that anyone who lives in texas is evil, or anyone in Kentucky is a hillbilly. It's very tough to fight the in group/out group mentality.
> 
> ...



I know it will never go away, but I also know it should not be tolerated, and when it is targeted at members of my family no amount of psychological justification for it will work for me, doubly so when it comes with death threats. I am not a psychologist, but I have more psychology credits in my college history than any sane person should have if they were not a major in it, so I understand the psychology of the matter. Still not going to except racism


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## Flying Crane (Nov 10, 2017)

Xue, I am sorry to hear about this.

I recommend pulling out a cell phone and getting footage, either photos or, better yet video, of the license plate and the person’s face.  Video will also capture the nonsense he is speaking.  And then file a police report and give them a copy of the video.

Just make sure that taking the footage won’t trigger a violent reaction, or that she is otherwise in a safe place in case he does try to get violent.

If he gets out and approaches her car in a threatening manner, she ought to run him down.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 10, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> If anyone wants more information or clarification on either concept


 Understood.  Better to have the mindset of trying to get rid off if than to not do anything at all.  I often see the defeatist position of "We can't stop it so why try to do anything about it."  This often comes up during discussions about sexual harassment, guns, and murder.   

I can't live forever but I'm going to do what I can to live as long as I can, and as healthy as I can.  vs  I can't live forever so I'll just be reckless since I'm going to die anyway.

I look at racism like weeds in the yard.  I know I can't get rid of all the weeds, but I'm better off if I get rid of as many weeds as possible and hope my neighbor does the same.  All it takes is that one house to give up on getting rid of weeds to affect the entire neighborhood.

You can't give it a pass or the issue will get worse and it will spread.


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## JR 137 (Nov 10, 2017)

Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng  But has can tell you as the son of an immigrant (my father is ethnic Armenian, born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon), the grandson of immigrants (maternal grandparents from Italy), and the step-son of an immigrant (stepfather born and raised in Peru), I can say without a doubt this is nothing new.

I’ve see firsthand and heard secondhand “you people come over here and take our jobs, start businesses, and send all your money out of our country” more times than I could ever count.  I learned a great line from my father when I was in kindergarten - “what’s stopping you from getting a job or opening your own business?”  If my father came here with one suitcase and $300, just about anyone could do what he’s done; he’s owned his own auto repair shop for going on 40 years now.

I’ve lost several friends and have alienated a ton of people who could’ve been friends over it.  I hear about “those towel heads who come over and open up a corner store, then bring their whole family over” all the time.  My reply - why don’t you open up your own corner store and buy your family a house, put your kids through college, etc.?  What’s stopping you?”

Think everything was good until Trump was elected?  How do you think it was for over a year or two for anyone who looked middle eastern?  The Pakistani guy who owns a store down the road had bricks thrown through his window several times.  People would come in to buy beer, he’d ask for ID, then they’d start a racist rant when they didn’t have it with them.  When people didn’t like the estimate my father would give them for repairs or told them he couldn’t get their car in for a few days, the slurs would start.

There’s been no shortage of verbal insults, physical threats, nor attempts at physical violence since I can remember.  I remember the Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and now Trump administrations.  Made no difference who the head honcho was nor is.  There’s been different excuses though.

And I’ve never lived anywhere where a confederate flag was tolerated.  I don’t think many people would say Albany, NY and lower Westchester County, NY are hotbeds for racism by any means.


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## JR 137 (Nov 11, 2017)

I hate to quote my own post, but something critical was missing...


JR 137 said:


> Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng  But has can tell you as the son of an immigrant (my father is ethnic Armenian, born and raised in Beirut, Lebanon), the grandson of immigrants (maternal grandparents from Italy), and the step-son of an immigrant (stepfather born and raised in Peru), I can say without a doubt this is nothing new.
> 
> I’ve see firsthand and heard secondhand “you people come over here and take our jobs, start businesses, and send all your money out of our country” more times than I could ever count.  I learned a great line from my father when I was in kindergarten - “what’s stopping you from getting a job or opening your own business?”  If my father came here with one suitcase and $300, just about anyone could do what he’s done; he’s owned his own auto repair shop for going on 40 years now.
> 
> ...



It should’ve said “how do you think it was for anyone middle eastern looking for a solid year or two AFTER 9/11?”  The Pakistani guy with the store that bricks were thrown through his window repeatedly, people acting like animals when they didn’t get what they wanted, when they wanted it, and so on.

I’ve seen it my whole life.  The current guy who’s in charge is an excuse.  Just like Obama was taking away things from white people and giving it to black people, GW Bush and how 9/11 was handled,  Clinton’s “Ebonics” fiasco and affirmative action, and on and on.  Blaming Trump is nothing more than the piss poor excuse of the day IMO.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 11, 2017)

Sorry, don't agree.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 11, 2017)

If you are in charge and you make a bad decision even when you have good data then that is on you.   If I'm in charge of a class and I make a bad decision and someone gets hurt or picked on because of my decision.  That's on me.   It's not an excuse, it's a reality.    The concept of "no one at fault" is an excuse.

In terms of U.S. presidents you can blame the people for putting bad politicians in office  (it's the same as the weed scenario of giving bad things a pass).   But after the politician is in that leadership role and makes decisions, the blame for that action will be on the leadership for the outcome, unless someone below the leadership didn't do their job.  If they do their job and the outcome is still negative then it's on the leadership.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 11, 2017)

It's called _*'whataboutism' *_and it is a means of deflection without addressing the topic.  I say X is happening because of policies set by Y, and rather than address my statement by confirming or denying it, the person with whom I am discussing the issues pulls a 'whataboutism' and says well, A happened because of B, so *what about that*?  It attempts to say 'everyone is bad, so my guy's badness doesn't mean anything'.  Yes, it does mean something and just because there is evil in the world does not let anyone off the hook for their responsibility for the evil that they themselves perpetuate.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 11, 2017)

To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.


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## Martial D (Nov 11, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.


No, no..discrimination of any kind is TOTALLY EVIL...

Unless it is against people that disagree, in which case STRING THEM UP AND BURN THEM!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 11, 2017)

As a side note, I find it interesting how people assume I am making excuses or making stances when I present factual information. This is not the first time, and probably not the last, that it will happen.

Since I have not stated my own personal belief; I think anyone who is being racist against any race (and I don't buy into the whole only white people can be racist idea I've seen recently), should be called out on it and corrected. I do not know how I would respond in Xue's situation, based on experience my response would be anger and fighting, but that would not be an option if I didn't see the person...However, our goal IMO should be to minimize racism/sexism/etc as much as possible and to fight against it, but not to believe that it can be eradicated, when it cannot.


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## DaveB (Nov 11, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Your OP is quite disturbing, @Xue Sheng
> ....And I’ve never lived anywhere where a confederate flag was tolerated.  I don’t think many people would say Albany, NY and lower Westchester County, NY are hotbeds for racism by any means.



Westchester not a hotbed for Racism?? Are you crazy?? Who do you think it is that keep trying to lynch those poor weird kids from the Xavier school!?!


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## granfire (Nov 11, 2017)

well, welcome to America....
there is a reason I started having anxiety attacks since last year.

The sh** has been with us forever. 
Because everybody is a little racist
(I wish jeff was still popping in on a regular basis, instead of posting cryptic song lyrics on FB)
but over the last 2 years the deplorables assumed they have been given Card Blanche to be nasty. 
Racist, sexist, and just outright mean.
Strangely enough, I don't see much of it around here (Bama...we are quietly nasty...and keep Roy Moore around as pet diversion)
Some places errupting in outright violence have surprised me.
Having said that, I have not talked to my in-laws since last November. 
You-know-who simply is not a decent man, any way you slice him.

But not being a person of color, and with better than average english skill and minimal accent, I fly under the radar.

Came across a few verbal morons, but they were religion based idiots...only borderline racist.

I find the differences in opinion stunning though.
the white guy wanting to go for the jugular, while the 'off white' guy suggests moderation in the response.
I do suspect that there, too, is the difference in experience. 
The white guy does not have to fear to be gunned down in broad daylight, while the gun man gets an adda boy (or girl)
while our dark skinned friends have every reason to fear not just the run of the mill bigot, but LEOs as well.
I have to say the video of Philando Castile's last moments on earth are haunting, I am sure his young daughter will never be the same.

As female of no pigmentation, I do subscribe to the idea that one only goes as high as the throat in situations like this, because a swift bud nipping is the best way to deal with bullies.

But once they have graduated to verbally attacking strangers in a public place, I think calls for caution are warranted. 
Because, you know, the response to shootings is more guns.
and every mentally unstable Tom, Dick , and Harry has an arsenal, acquired over the course of the last administration, fired up by the fear mongering of the NRA. 

genital grabbing, gun slinging, racists....

the good thing is that all the fascist nazi scum is using the internet with abandon.
the net is forever, even if the GOP succeeds in restricting net neutrality. 
Somebody will see the offensive posts and conserve them for posterity on Canadian servers. 
'I followed orders' will never be an excuse anymore.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 11, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> To clarify, none of my post was an excuse for racism. It was simple information about why racism exists, and the sad reality that it will not easily go away. It does not mean people should stop fighting racism, but shows exactly what it is you are fighting which IMO is always a good thing to know. You can also extrapolate that each person on here complaining likely has their own prejudices formed that we may or may not recognize, and should be aware of ourselves.


I have my own prejudices but they aren't filled with hate nor an intent to oppress.   
Prejudice and Racism have slightly different meanings.  Please don't equate one with the other.  You can have prejudices about something and not have the hate or superiority complex that comes with racism.  Like literally you can have a prejudice of ice cream flavors.  But you can't be racists against ice cream.  These words are not the same.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 11, 2017)

granfire said:


> Because everybody is a little racist


This is also not true.  Everyone has a little prejudice in them but it's not the same thing as being a racist.  In addition to that, not everyone acts on their prejudice.  It is not uncommon to see people make decisions that go against their prejudice.   My thinking a culture sucks would be a prejudice.  Me making the choice to experience a little of the culture that I think suck , is me going against that prejudice.    This is not the same a racism.


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## granfire (Nov 11, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is also not true.  Everyone has a little prejudice in them but it's not the same thing as being a racist.  In addition to that, not everyone acts on their prejudice.  It is not uncommon to see people make decisions that go against their prejudice.   My thinking a culture sucks would be a prejudice.  Me making the choice to experience a little of the culture that I think suck , is me going against that prejudice.    This is not the same a racism.


It was a direct quote from an essay a dear friend (Ok, Jeff) was kind enough to share with me. 
of course, we all have our prejudices. 
but how we act on them is important.

personally I don't have time for BS. 
a person will soon enough show you whether or not they are a-holes. 
I have 'met' a bunch of great people on the net, where the personality comes first.
I have often been blown away, finding out that the person on the other end is either not as old as I thought, or not of the heritage I assumed (our default setting through formative years matter. and even in this day and age you come across people who will tell you 'up until so and so, I never really met anybody not <insert qualifyer here>. A good friend of mine told me she was quite old when she first started to interact with white people. She did not move here from Africa!)


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 11, 2017)

Also keep in mind that racism isn't just a "white action"  In the U.S. White vs whoever gets the most air play but there are many different non-white groups who are more than happy to be racists not only against other "non-white" people but also to white people.

I will say this much.  It's a lot better now then it was when I was growing up.  By the time I was 19,  I had seen more elephants than interracial couples of any racial make up.  It wasn't until I was in my late 20's that I began to see the change.   While the 70's - late 90's were bad for me, it was still much better than what my parents when through.  Now it's normal for many people see people of different races date, marry, and have children.   But I think for some people this new "norm" is too much to handle so they say things like "take our country back"  back from who? back from where? 

While there were some good things in the past, social perceptions and social racism were not one of those good things.  The pattern of history has proven that things get better as we move forward.  Countries that move backward usually experience the opposite effect.  Things get worse.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 11, 2017)

granfire said:


> It was a direct quote from an essay a dear friend (Ok, Jeff) was kind enough to share with me.


Ok. got ya.  sorry about how I directed my comment.  it should have been to Jeff.



granfire said:


> A good friend of mine told me she was quite old when she first started to interact with white people.


  I can believe that.  I know a few people like this.  They went to school all black schools and they didn't have a white classmate until college.  I usually tell them that they missed out.  Even if I don't tell them that, you can see it through their actions that they missed out.  I remember in college a black friend asked me "How do I hang out with white people, Koreans, Asians, and Hispanics?"   It was a strange question to me because to me they were just people like anyone else.  I didn't have to be one way or the other for those people to like me.  Just be myself and let them decide.    I think it was at that point that I stop taking my diverse social interactions for granted. 

For whatever reason some people "live in a bubble"  I've known people who lived in Baltimore, Maryland and never been 30 miles down the road to Washington D.C.


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## granfire (Nov 11, 2017)

well, here where I live we have still all white towns....born from the post segregation era....
But you have to read the essay from Jeff, it makes a lot more sense in context.
(but it's not mine, so I can't share! I was hoping it would get picked up by the New Yorker by now...)


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## drop bear (Nov 12, 2017)

People are more important than your ideology.

Simple as that.


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## Buka (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm enjoying this thread.


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