# knives



## tshadowchaser (Jul 4, 2002)

At what level of experence d you start teaching Knife work? 
 Do you require a year or more practice beforyou interduce the student to knife an dstick combinations?
  Yeah I know a stick can be substituted for a knife and the other way aroud if the student has a brain bit I mean WHEN do you say this is a knife drill or Stick-knife drill?

 Shadow:asian:


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## arnisador (Jul 4, 2002)

I add knives fairly early though I definitely start with the stick. If it's a very young student I'll delay the knifework longer for "political" reasons. I do make them wait a bit for knife-and-stick work (called Espada Y Daga in Modern Arnis, practiced with stick rather than sword however) because of the extra coordination required to use both hands and to use them at different ranges, and because a lot of our Espada Y Daga work focuses on palis-palis go with the force techniques that I think are a bit harder for students to grasp than the basic force-on-force techniques.


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## Yari (Jul 5, 2002)

I think that weapons, no matter which , should be introduced as early as possible. Specilly if the weapon gives the fundamental movements/understanding for the art.

In jujitsu, from the styles I've praticed, I think that after mastering some basic unarmed techniques, one should start on the usage of the knife, and that's about 1 - 1½ years pratice.

There is two reasons for this: 1) Make sure that the student has a basic understand of movement between to people, basic understanding of holds / grabs / trhows and so on. 2) Make sure that the student has the correct attetuide to be learning how a knife works.


/Yari


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 5, 2002)

How do yo handle that student that has an attitude or the one you just really don't trust completely with knife techniques.  Do you only show those techniques on days they do not show up or do you try to wash the student out early.

Shadow:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yari _
> 
> *I think that weapons, no matter which , should be introduced as early as possible. Specilly if the weapon gives the fundamental movements/understanding for the art.
> 
> ...



I agree with both Yari and Arnisador. Start them early getting used to the weapon. In my case I teach knife disarms first for the second belt requirement. This allows the student to start getting used to certain movements and not feel so 'terrified' of the wooden knife. I believe in respect of the weapon, just not terror of the weapon.

Start early and train long, it helps.

Now in some, arts the principles are taught first with the longest weapon then they move into the shorter weapons, to finally the empty hands. The opposite can be said also, where empty hands is taught then weapons are taught. This style of teaching allows the student to use concepts from area to the other. Yet, I have found that it somehow not so. The student finds this as a new concept. If the student has some basic knowledge and is ready for the concepts, then applying them for a stick, a knife and empty hands, allows the student to see how the same concept can be applied to all three weapons. Now, I said concept, not exact technique, for there will be subtle changes obviously for the application.

Just me rant, take it for you want.  

Rich
:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tshadowchaser _
> 
> *How do yo handle that student that has an attitude or the one you just really don't trust completely with knife techniques.  Do you only show those techniques on days they do not show up or do you try to wash the student out early.
> 
> Shadow:asian: *



Hey Shadow,

If you have concerns about a student, yes you can teach certain subjects only when (s)he is not in attendance. You can also only show the defensive side of the technique and not the offensive side. Both of these ideas allow you to continue to work with the student to see if the 'feeling' is correct or not. It will also allow the student time to mature if this is the case. 

Now sometimes no matter what you do as the instructor there will be a student that will not respect you or what you are teaching. Then you can or may have to wash them out as you say. But, in this condition I always try to use the subtle rules of the club. i.e. 'You know student xyz you have not called me to let me know you were going to be absent. Therefore I think if you are not going to be here, or let me know, then maybe you should just leave.' I know this is a simple example and will not fit all clubs.

If you have a problem with someone, get another opinion from another local instructor. Have him watch the student or talk to him. Have a trusted friend who reads people well, check out the student. If everyone keeps coming up with this student gives me the wrong vibes, then you know it not just you. Yet, I have found that when I have had the feeling about a student, sooner or later I have been proven correct. This is one of those times when you feel bad for being correct.

Good Luck Shadow :asian:

Rich


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 7, 2002)

Good answere but this one was not about one of my students but on the student we may all see sometime that we just get a gut feeling about.
  You know the one that tries to hard to be perfect. The one that always says to others "be careful we all have to work and we are all brothers", then cheap shots them. I can't trust that type of student with knife techniques.
  We have all had one of these students or will have one if we teach long enough. So I was just asking how others treat them.

  Shadow:asian:


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