# zhang ma dao (horse blade form)



## mantis

the weapon is called 'zhang ma dao'.  I only taped 1/2 of the form (the second half is identical to the first but with different direction)






i suck haha


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## Makalakumu

Hey, nice form.  That is a big weapon to be flinging around.  Could you give us some more info on this form?


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## mantis

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Hey, nice form. That is a big weapon to be flinging around. Could you give us some more info on this form?


the form name is 'chopping broadsword'. the weapon is called  a horse cutter and is used against people attacking you while riding a horse.  it consists of strikes up high at the neck of the horse and down low at the legs as well.  the 'flowers' and the retreats are to deflect any attack.  your goal is to bring the fighter and the horse down so you can use the sword to fight.  you attack while retreating and while moving forward.


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## Xue Sheng

Cool

Is that looks like a real blade, not wushu steal (That is much harder to control), very nice form, thank you for posting it. 

I use to do a form with a similar weapon with a slightly smaller blade (Kwandao http://www.gungfu.com/cart-htm/weapons_chinese_weapons_lungchuan.htm), I tried it with both real and wushu steal and it was considerable more difficult to get correct and a considerably slower than the Wushu. 

However due to the flexibility of the wushu blade the form made me a bit more nervous.


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## mantis

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Cool
> 
> Is that looks like a real blade, not wushu steal (That is much harder to control), very nice form, thank you for posting it.
> 
> I use to do a form with a similar weapon with a slightly smaller blade (Kwandao http://www.gungfu.com/cart-htm/weapons_chinese_weapons_lungchuan.htm), I tried it with both real and wushu steal and it was considerable more difficult to get correct and a considerably slower than the Wushu.
> 
> However due to the flexibility of the wushu blade the form made me a bit more nervous.


i was expecting more criticism from a CMA practitioner  haha
yeah Gwan Dao should is a longer weapon but with a shorter blade.  my shoulder is sore from this form, it get really heavy, you can tell my motion becomes heavy at some points.
it's a real blade not wushu stuff.  the sound of wushu weapons annoy me. 
there's also another weapon that's a hybrid between a gwan dao and a zhang ma dao.  it's called a pudao but i dont know how it's used.


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## Xue Sheng

mantis said:
			
		

> i was expecting more criticism from a CMA practitioner  haha
> yeah Gwan Dao should is a longer weapon but with a shorter blade. my shoulder is sore from this form, it get really heavy, you can tell my motion becomes heavy at some points.
> it's a real blade not wushu stuff. the sound of wushu weapons annoy me.
> there's also another weapon that's a hybrid between a gwan dao and a zhang ma dao. it's called a pudao but i dont know how it's used.


 
Thanks, I always liked those weapons and their associated forms, they are harder than they look and those that have never used them often told me I was to slow, until I handed them the Gwan Dao. However when my sifu at that time told me that it was an entirely different story. 

I remember back when I did the Gwan Dao form, my shoulders were very sore. Most unfortunately I no longer go to that school and I do not own a Gwan Dao. Nor would my neighbors appreciate me outside swinging one around, so I no longer do the form. And since I already paid a plumber, a few years back, because I lost control of my Da Dow in the basement and took out a hot water pipe, using a Gwan Dao in the house was not an option


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## Jade Tigress

mantis said:
			
		

> the weapon is called 'zhang ma dao'.  I only taped 1/2 of the form (the second half is identical to the first but with different direction)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBwap0WYZ0U
> 
> i suck haha



Very nice.


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## mantis

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Thanks, I always liked those weapons and their associated forms, they are harder than they look and those that have never used them often told me I was to slow, until I handed them the Gwan Dao. However when my sifu at that time told me that it was an entirely different story.
> 
> I remember back when I did the Gwan Dao form, my shoulders were very sore. Most unfortunately I no longer go to that school and I do not own a Gwan Dao. Nor would my neighbors appreciate me outside swinging one around, so I no longer do the form. And since I already paid a plumber, a few years back, because I lost control of my Da Dow in the basement and took out a hot water pipe, using a Gwan Dao in the house was not an option



think positively about this: taking out the pipe is a proof-of-concept that a gwan dao form works! even if its outta control.  u should still practice the form if u remember, even with a staff instead of a real gwan dao.

and yeah i agree.  my neighbors suck too.  they give me the weirdest looks when im walking from my house to my car (a couple of feet!!!)  as if they want to jump me, but they cant because i have a huge weapon with me, and they dont!  i just hate their looooong loooooong stares


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## Xue Sheng

mantis said:
			
		

> think positively about this: taking out the pipe is a proof-of-concept that a gwan dao form works! even if its outta control. u should still practice the form if u remember, even with a staff instead of a real gwan dao.
> 
> and yeah i agree. my neighbors suck too. they give me the weirdest looks when im walking from my house to my car (a couple of feet!!!) as if they want to jump me, but they cant because i have a huge weapon with me, and they dont! i just hate their looooong loooooong stares



Most unfortunately I no longer remember the form and I did not take out the pipe with the Gwan dao, I took it out with a Da Dao. IF I tried the Gwon Dao in my basement I would probably make the plumber very very happy and my wife very very unhappy. 

And my neighbors are much the same as yours with one exception, one is better armed than I, he is in the local PD. 

I hope to get back to it someday, but it will have to wait a while.


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## stone_dragone

I remember seeing someone use a similar weapon at a tournament back when I got started...I like yours better!  Not a CMA person myself, I always enjoy watching the fluidity, knowing its also deadly.


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## tshadowchaser

I thank you both for the links.
I love seeing forms and weapons that I usualy never get to see.

may I ask how heavy that horse cutter is?


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## mantis

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> I thank you both for the links.
> I love seeing forms and weapons that I usualy never get to see.
> 
> may I ask how heavy that horse cutter is?


i'd say 5-10 lb's.. not sure
it's not really heavy but the size of it makes it hard to fight with and swing around.   the trick is to use both hands to control it, which i am not good at yet....


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## Xue Sheng

mantis said:
			
		

> think positively about this: taking out the pipe is a proof-of-concept that a gwan dao form works! even if its outta control. u should still practice the form if u remember, even with a staff instead of a real gwan dao.
> 
> and yeah i agree. my neighbors suck too. they give me the weirdest looks when im walking from my house to my car (a couple of feet!!!) as if they want to jump me, but they cant because i have a huge weapon with me, and they dont! i just hate their looooong loooooong stares


 
I just saw this, there is a Chen Style form with the Gwan Dao, and I am returning to Chen style, so I may end up training with one again after all.


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## mantis

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I just saw this, there is a Chen Style form with the Gwan Dao, and I am returning to Chen style, so I may end up training with one again after all.


that's awesome.. i wanna learn this weapon man!!!
how heavy is a gwan dao these days?  i know the original one was 100 lb's?  it's almost as long as a staff or a spear, isnt it?


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## Xue Sheng

mantis said:
			
		

> that's awesome.. i wanna learn this weapon man!!!
> how heavy is a gwan dao these days? i know the original one was 100 lb's? it's almost as long as a staff or a spear, isnt it?


 
Yes it is almost as long as a spear and I do not know the weight, I know I use to tell people the damn things weighs a ton.


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## mantis

yeah.. i cannot estimate the weight of those things.  one time someone asked me about the double cane and i thought they were like 30 lb's.  but they turned out to be 5.2 or something.  now someone asked me about the zhang ma dao, and i said 5-10 although it feels heavier!  i dont know, i cannot tell!


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## Xue Sheng

mantis said:
			
		

> yeah.. i cannot estimate the weight of those things. one time someone asked me about the double cane and i thought they were like 30 lb's. but they turned out to be 5.2 or something. now someone asked me about the zhang ma dao, and i said 5-10 although it feels heavier! i dont know, i cannot tell!


 

I just came across something about the Kwon Dao

Supposedly General Kwan's Kwan Dao weighed 100 pounds or more. 

I still have no idea how much the one I used weighed, I honestly doubt it was 100 lbs, if it was I am a lot stronger than I think I am.


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