# Tsd/tkd



## Manny (Jun 12, 2012)

Can anybody tell me the big diferences beetwen TSD and TKD? Both are Koren martial Arts and in some how they are related but I want to know the real diferences and the real similutdes beetwen these martial arts.

Manny


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## Kaygee (Jun 12, 2012)

There will be many different responses to this, but basically, they are "sisters" in the martial arts.

I have taken both, and I have seen that TKD is about 75% kicking, 25% punching. I find it funny when I see two TKD students fighting and it seems like their arms are just hanging there doing nothing. Now granted, their kicks are SPECTACULAR and beautiful to watch, but it isn't for me. Also, TKD is more a sport than a martial art as it is the national olympic sport of Korea.

Tang Soo Do is more of a 50% punching, 50% kicking art. In my opinion, it is more practical. Most of the forms and such are similiar, but the belt rankings are different, as TKD has many more belts than TSD.

Traditional TSD only has four belts (white, green, red, midnight blue), and they don't actually have a black colored belt when you reach the rank of black belt, you receive a midnight blue belt instead. This is built on the philosphy that black is considered "the end" and it is the only color that cannot be made darker. In TSD, we feel that we are always learning, so we use the midnight blue belt instead.....looks black anyway., and who cares, it's just a color! You are referred to as a black belt all of the time anyway because you are!

TKD has many different colorered belts, and they vary from school to school. My school had six, my nephew's school has EIGHT!

It depends what you want to do and it is up to you. Go watch a couple of classes from each type of school. I have seen TSD schools that practice a lot of TKD moves and I have seen vice versa. There's actually an interesting history about how the two arts split, you should look it up sometime.

My TSD school also includes a lot of hapkido into it, so we have the luxry of being able to defend ourselves at both close and far range. I didn't get that with TKD.

Go search and figure it out....whatever decision you make doesn't have to be the final one. Lots of people bounce around from art to art. I just wanted more of a traditional martial art to study, so I chose TSD because TKD, as I stated before, is more of a sport. But that is not to undermine the lethalness of some of their kicks.....some of them are crazy!


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## JWLuiza (Jun 12, 2012)

Manny you've posted this before! Are you looking for anything in particular as to the differences? Part of the MDK is absorbed into TKD so there are TKD schools that look a lot like TSD and do the same hyung/poomsae as us in TSD.


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## Tez3 (Jun 13, 2012)

TSD is basically Shotokan karate with Korean names for techniques instead of Japanese. The patterns are those of Shotokan with little bits slightly changed ie a kick put in.


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## Kaygee (Jun 13, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> TSD is basically Shotokan karate with Korean names for techniques instead of Japanese. The patterns are those of Shotokan with little bits slightly changed ie a kick put in.



Actually, if you take into account the way the energy is built up in the two arts, they are very much different. 

Punches, for example:
In Shotokan they have the artist in a basic front stance. They then step their back foot in, so it touches their other foot, and then out, so they wind up in a front stance, and they throw the punch when their back foot becomes their front foot. (Basically, they make a "V" motion with their foot)
In TSD, from a front stance, the artist drags their back foot slightly and keeps their hip slightly "behind" their body as they step forward and then they throw their hip and foot into the punch at the same time.

Different ways to produce energy with little effort, same result!

Same thing with kicks...for example:
In Shotokan, a side kick has you facing the target in a side stance...you step forward (or stay in place) and bring your knee towards yourself, lean back a bit and kick outwards.
A TSD side kick has you facing your target in a front stance, then you turn completely sideways to your target with your leg chambered all the way up in a ready position. You then release the kick, but as you do, you turn your body and your standing foot so you are facing the complete opposite way from your target.

Also, Shotokan stances are much, much lower than TSD stances as they believe their balance comes from being lower.

These are but a couple of examples of the differences between the two arts. They aren't different just because they use Korean adjectives to describe the moves instead of a Japenese adjective. Or one art places a punch in place where the other art places a kick. That is trivializing the differences between the two arts.

You can say all of these types of "hard styles" of martial arts are "similiar", but indeed they have many differences. Granted, you are correct, to the naked eye and untrained artist, they may indeed look very similiar. But in reality, they are very, very different as they all have their own ways of "gathering energy" and changing stances, doing their forms etc.


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## Manny (Jun 13, 2012)

Thank you all, yes I asked this before but was not satisfied at all wihgt the relies, I do not train or ever trained TSD I am  black belt in TKD, however what I have saw about TSD in Youtube for example, is that their forms (katas) are in some way chinese alike, I know that TSD and TKD are related like an old sister (TSD) and the young sister (TKD) or like cousings. Yes TKD is more kicking than anything in the sport side (sport kyorugi) but talking about poomsae/one steps/three steps and hshi sul TKD is not only kicking, we have punches, hand techs and even sweeps and some trows and locks so maybe in this thing (all ther things TKD has not relationed to sport kyorugi) maybe we are close to TSD.

Maybe the main diference beetwen TSD and TKD is two things; a) The poomsae and b)The sport sparring. In the poomsae the forms that teachs TSD are not the same maybe with some moves alike to TKD but not the same and in sport sparring TSD uses more hands maybe the ratio hand/foot is 50/50 in TKD we only use the arms to block or parry or deflect and we use of hand/foot (atacking) is 90% foot and 10% hands.

Also doing sparring the TSD tend to use a side guard, and the TKDoing tend to use a 3/4 face guard some thing like a modified boxer guard.

Manny


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## Kaygee (Jun 13, 2012)

As I stated, and as many will state, they are very similiar. I think the schools that teach REAL TKD and REAL TSD, which are hard to find anymore (I was lucky to find one of each), show the real differences between the two, but most schools blur the differences and, in a lot of cases, combine the two.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 11, 2013)

I was under the impression that TSD is to TKD like JJJ is to Judo. Essentially a different system but one born from the other. Now I've never done JJJ or Judo or TSD, but I did train in TKD on and off for about 6 or 7 years.


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## TKDTony2179 (Jun 6, 2013)

Some say 50/50 hand and feet in tsd and some say 70/30 hand and feet in tkd. Now Some say tkd have their hands down just swinging? Are you talking about WTF sparring? Or the ITF? I have watched some sparring on youtube and all see in tsd is 1-point sparring with their hands down as well? Looks like big sister taught the little sister the samethings.  

Now here is the real question. What is the approach or concepts in sparring or fighting in TSD that is different than TKD?  Don't say self-defense because both can teach that. What makes TSD really any different than being korean karate and they didn't take up the name of TKD that General Choi come up with?


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## Montecarlodrag (Jul 16, 2013)

TKDTony2179 said:


> Some say 50/50 hand and feet in tsd and some say 70/30 hand and feet in tkd. Now Some say tkd have their hands down just swinging? Are you talking about WTF sparring? Or the ITF? I have watched some sparring on youtube and all see in tsd is 1-point sparring with their hands down as well? Looks like big sister taught the little sister the samethings.
> 
> Now here is the real question. What is the approach or concepts in sparring or fighting in TSD that is different than TKD?  Don't say self-defense because both can teach that. What makes TSD really any different than being korean karate and they didn't take up the name of TKD that General Choi come up with?


I have trained both and also Shotokan.
I can tell you that TSD and TKD have many similar kicks ,stances, and forms, but the similarities end there. There are some things you won't find in either.
TSD uses the hands a lot more than TKD, while TKD uses the legs more than TSD, there are a few kicks in TKD that don't exist in TSD. They are useless kick in my opinion but the fact remains.
I have seen a lot of TKD students in tournaments and they are lightning fast with kicks, but even if they can reach you with a punch they will try to do a fancy kick to strike.
In TSD we use the hands a lot, and while not allowed in free sparring or tournaments, we do open and closed hand strikes, elbow and palm punches.
We only use gloves and instep guards to do free sparring, because real contact is preferred. I only trained TKD for a year but the free sparring was always done with gloves; instep, chest and head guards (I hate the headguard so much). It was mandatory  equipment.

I can only speak for the TSD I practice and it is very different to the Shotokan you can see around here, nobody would think both styles are even related. The kicks are different and I mean very different, the stances and punches very different too. The only similar thing are the Heian/pyung ahn forms. A few shotokan students joined my dojang and had to learn everything from the beginning.

Every branch is different, I know TKD schools from other states that were TSD first then they changed to TKD. They are more similar to my TSD than other "pure" TSD schools.


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