# can anyone tell me how effective bjj is for self defence



## eggg1994 (Dec 10, 2010)

hey guys i really want to know how effective bjj is for self defence and what kinds of joint locks, and throws you can do in self defence and i want the names of the techniques.


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 10, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey guys i really want to know how effective bjj is for self defence and what kinds of joint locks, and throws you can do in self defence and i want the names of the techniques.


 
Hey eggg, I don't do BJJ so I can't really give too much advice but just wanted to say great post, I think you'll find a lot more people will be a lot nicer to you and help you when you ask questions this way  Good luck with getting the information you want!


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## MJS (Dec 10, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey guys i really want to know how effective bjj is for self defence and what kinds of joint locks, and throws you can do in self defence and i want the names of the techniques.


 
Anything has the potential to be effective in self defense.  Of course, some arts are more effective than others, but alot does come down to how each person trains it.  Self defense is a very broad term, as it covers alot.  Is it effective for survival on the ground?  Yes.  Is it effective for armed attacks?  Supposedly there are weapon defenses, but I'd say alot is going to depend on the school.  In other words, if its strictly a sport based school, then no, chances are, that type of stuff wont be covered.  

There are a number of positions, locks, chokes, etc., in BJJ.  Am I going to list every single thing?  No.  Why?  Because its not going to do you any good.  My suggestion would be to take your time, and learn things gradually, as your inst. teaches them to you.  As I said in another post, many times its hard to understand what someone is trying to say by reading, especially if the person reading, has no idea what the other person is talking about.


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## eggg1994 (Dec 10, 2010)

well ty and i have already learned some of bjj basic self defence techniques so are the concepts of self defence more leverage and technique or just whatever


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## WC_lun (Dec 10, 2010)

Self defense has very little to do with techniques.  Self-defense starts and ends with awareness.  Awareness of your surrounding, awareness of what a potential attacker is doing, and awareness of how you can stop what he is doing.  

Study what your school teaches.  Train hard and with a curious mind.  Test what you are learning.  Eventually you will learn the concepts and principles your system is based upon and you will be able to use whatever technique is needed at a particular moment, even creating your own as the need arises.

Self defense is not about a particlar style.  No style is better or worse for self defense.  I have seen a martial artist from a "sport" style defend himself against multiple attackers.  I've also seen a high level practitioner of a "true combat system" get his backside handed to him by a smaller, drunken man.  It is about what you train and how you train it. 

You should be aware that self defense and sport training are different.  The skills do cross over, but they are not exactly trained the same way.  If you are training to compete in grappling tournaments, that means you are not training for self defense.  That doesn't mean that you can't defend yourself using what you know, just that there are differences in training due to focus. I'll use an arm bar for example.  In sporting you apply an arm bar in an attempt to get your opponent to submitt, so you can win the match.  For self defense, you break thier arm.  Putting him in an arm bar waiting for him to submitt to your greater skills, hoping he just gives up afterward, is not realistic.  The key is training with the awareness of the difference between a match and a fight.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 11, 2010)

Hi eggg1994,

Probably the best thing that we can tell you is that there really is no such thing as a self defence technique. With regards to specific locks, throws, and chokes, there is no way to tell you what would or would not be effective, as they are really just methods used that need to be appropriate to the situation. Some situations may call for a rear naked choke, some for a takedown and control, some for a broken arm, and many (in fact most) others will call for getting distance and leaving the situation.

In terms of how effective BJJ is, that, as others have said, will depend more on how it is trained, rather than the mechanical aspects itself. But if you are asking how effective it can be (when trained properly with self defence as a primary goal), BJJ is what is refered to as a specialist system. It focuses on a specific range (grappling), and seeks to turn every use to that range. So provided you can always get the situation into the range that BJJ prefers, it can be highly effective. But it just comes down to how well you can follow what BJJ teaches and do that.

The techniques themselves are no-where near as important as your ability to be aware of danger and leave before it gets beyond your ability to escape.


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## Steve (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't disagree with anything that others have said, particularly regarding awareness.  I've recently said in another thread that I believe that the most important safety feature in a car is an alert driver who is driving defensively.  This goes for self defense, too. 

I'll add just a couple of positives for BJJ in a self defense situation, although they aren't unique to BJJ.  The instant, honest feedback you get from sparring is invaluable.  Your sense of what you can and can't do is as close to reality as you can get.  In other words, if you are adept enough in certain positions or with certain techniques to catch upper belts, you'll be in good shape against a thug.

Another thing about BJJ is that you will be fit.  I'm not as fit as a professional MMA fighter, but I'm in much better shape than probably 80% of 40 year olds in the USA.   I know that if push came to shove, my body won't let me down... whether that's to run or to fight.

Lastly, you'll know what you can't do.  You'll have a realistic idea of what you're not good at and where your holes are.  

All of these are positives, IMO.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 11, 2010)

*I have been fortunate to get a good solid dose of bjj self defense training along with of course countless hours rolling.*  The self defense techniques of Brazilian Jiujitsu are pretty solid and simple which is some thing I can appreciate.  However, unfortunately most bjj schools just gloss over the self defense training and go right into rolling and submission grappling.  If you do train with most of the Gracies though you will still get a good enough dose of their self defense material.

Now is BJJ good for self defense?  Well it can be like any other system provided the practitioner learns how bjj works and can apply it.  In the end it does come down to the *practitioner* and *not the system*!


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## eggg1994 (Dec 17, 2010)

well thank you because other people say that bjj sucks for self defence and i am training it for pure self defence and i just want to know if bjj is truely good for self defence because those people who think that bjj sucks for self defence have never even trained in it. sometimes i just want to know what and how bjj is effective for self defence and what i mean is i need proof that bjj is truely effective for self defence besides krav megal


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## jks9199 (Dec 17, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> well thank you because other people say that bjj sucks for self defence and i am training it for pure self defence and i just want to know if bjj is truely good for self defence because those people who think that bjj sucks for self defence have never even trained in it. sometimes i just want to know what and how bjj is effective for self defence and what i mean is i need proof that bjj is truely effective for self defence besides krav megal


I don't think anyone has categorically said that BJJ "sucks" for self defense.  It's got problem areas for self defense -- but so does every other art out there.  There's no way to prove that anything works for self defense except to get in situations with real violence.  Not exactly a smart plan, huh?

Look at your training.  Look at your teachers.  If you trust them, and you trust what you're learning, and you train it with an attitude and focus towards defending yourself, it'll work.  Otherwise... you're a "pajama dancer."


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## eggg1994 (Dec 17, 2010)

well think you very much and thats good that i will never get into any of those situation's


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## kungfu penguin (Dec 18, 2010)

In self defense how u train is more important than X amount of techniques.  I think Bruce lee said do not fear the man who knows 10000 techniques. Fear the man who does 1 technique10000 times. Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to really hurt your fellow man. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably wasting your time


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 18, 2010)

kungfu penguin said:


> Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to really hurt your fellow man. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably wasting your time



I think it's not so much a case of having the resolve to hurt your fellow man as the desire to get home safe when it comes to self defense. Looking to cause harm to your opponent or to "destroy" them can sound great and look great in movies etc but reality is you will very quickly find yourself going from the "victim" to the "attacker". No matter which art you train, which style etc, if you are looking for self defense you need to take the mindset that you will do what you need to in order to escape the situation and get home in one piece. No more, no less. Both ends can have very bad consequences for you.


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> I think it's not so much a case of having the resolve to hurt your fellow man as the desire to get home safe when it comes to self defense. Looking to cause harm to your opponent or to "destroy" them can sound great and look great in movies etc but reality is you will very quickly find yourself going from the "victim" to the "attacker". No matter which art you train, which style etc, if you are looking for self defense you need to take the mindset that you will do what you need to in order to escape the situation and get home in one piece. No more, no less. Both ends can have very bad consequences for you.


 
The desire to get home in one piece won`t help _at all_ if you do not have the will and willingness to pay the price. kungfu penguin brings up a very valid point there.


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 20, 2010)

Cirdan said:


> The desire to get home in one piece won`t help _at all_ if you do not have the will and willingness to pay the price. kungfu penguin brings up a very valid point there.



Point taken Cirdan, I was referring more to the legal implications of any encounter. If the police are called to the scene and witnesses say some guy tried to punch you and you took him down then stomped on his head or broke his arm etc, at least in Australia, you get arrested just as quickly as your attacker. If however you tried to talk him down and/or used only force that was absolutely necessary, then you're clear. In class we refer to this as the second wave. Dealing with law enforcement. 

In terms of willingness to pay the price, if you mean bruises of your own etc then agreed completely. If you mean potential jail time, I'm afraid not so much.


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> Point taken Cirdan, I was referring more to the legal implications of any encounter. If the police are called to the scene and witnesses say some guy tried to punch you and you took him down then stomped on his head or broke his arm etc, at least in Australia, you get arrested just as quickly as your attacker. If however you tried to talk him down and/or used only force that was absolutely necessary, then you're clear. In class we refer to this as the second wave. Dealing with law enforcement.
> 
> In terms of willingness to pay the price, if you mean bruises of your own etc then agreed completely. If you mean potential jail time, I'm afraid not so much.


 
Nobody said to stomp on someone`s head, just that you have to be ready to use what you have been trained in. If you are not, then it does not matter because you are living in a dream world. Willingness to use extreme violence does not mean you automatically resort to excessive force in any situation, like you seem to imply.


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 20, 2010)

Sorry if that's what my comment came across as, wasn't what I was intending. My response was based on the following line only "Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to *really hurt your  fellow man*. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably  wasting your time"

That to me implies that you can't successfully defend yourself if you don't have the mindset to really hurt your fellow man as opposed to wanting to get away safe. Sure that may mean causing some injury but it shouldn't be the focus - or at least that's how I see it. As for the stomping on the head thing, it was an example of an extreme only.


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Supra Vijai said:


> Sorry if that's what my comment came across as, wasn't what I was intending. My response was based on the following line only "Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to *really hurt your fellow man*. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably wasting your time"
> 
> That to me implies that you can't successfully defend yourself if you don't have the mindset to really hurt your fellow man as opposed to wanting to get away safe. Sure that may mean causing some injury but it shouldn't be the focus - or at least that's how I see it. As for the stomping on the head thing, it was an example of an extreme only.


 
But in an extreme situation you might have to really hurt your fellow man to walk away from it. You might have to seriously maim, even kill. If you haven`t trained for this and prepared yourself mentally, how can you ever hope to apply it?


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## Chris Parker (Dec 20, 2010)

Yes, very true Cirdan. However the point being made here is that if "having the resolve to really hurt your fellow man" is the emphasis and focus on your training, then that is an unhealthy extreme to constantly remain in. Our modern self defence is predicated on three words: Get Home Safe. If that means avoiding conflict, great. If it is verbal defusion, wonderful. If it is handling an assault and escaping, very good. If it is pre-emptively striking in order to gain the upper hand and get away, that's a big tactic we use as well. And if it means causing real physical and/or psychological damage in order to remove an attackers ability or willingness to continue an assault, or commit such actions again, then that is also definately part of it. But if your approach is predicated on having the mindset of doing harm, you're coming at it from the wrong end of things. That's getting into one of the last resorts.

And Supra never said we don't train for that, by the way....


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

I think we are moving into nitpicking about wording again.. KF penguin mentions heart and the resolve to do harm which I read as the will to survive and do harm if neccecary. Then again english is not my first language.

I will always look for the best way to do maximum damage. Does not mean I will do so but it could be needed the next split second. Attacks happen with far less warning and with greater force than most suspect.


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## Supra Vijai (Dec 20, 2010)

Sorry went away from the PC for a bit and Sensei Parker beat me to it 

I think from the sounds of it, different interpretations of the same sentence is the only issue here. I personally won't argue your last point at all Cirdan about being ready to do harm if necessary, I think you are totally right there and that's a great mindset to have. To me it's part of doing what you have to in order to survive. 

The only issue I had was as Sensei Parker mentioned, going into a fight with the preconceived idea of causing as much harm as possible. Pre-empting the fight so to speak rather than going with it (if verbal de-escalation and so on had failed) and acting in the "future" rather than "present"

And yes we do train to cause damage when needed, we just had a workshop dealing with the defensive use of various weapons. We took one principle and applied it to half a dozen weapons in twice as many scenarios, acting as both the good and the bad guys so to speak. Many of the strikes we were doing, if done with proper targeting would be severely damaging to your opponent but at the same time, within the bounds of local laws so we wouldn't suddenly find ourselves arrested for what we thought was self defense


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## Chris Parker (Dec 20, 2010)

Hey Cirdan,

Yeah, it's getting into the difference between the meanings of the words, and the implied undertones.... for example, I wouldn't look for the best way to do maximum damage at any point. If I did, it'd be a straight lethal move, quick, simple, done. But, as that is rarely necessary, or even advisable, the first thing I look for is the best way to get away. And against, say, a gun with no demand for cash, just screaming, getting more and more agitated, it may be that lethal responce. It really comes down to the situation.

Your last comments (straight out of Rory Miller's book there, yeah?) should be repeated constantly. Heartily agree.


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Indeed Chris, it always comes down to the situation. If you can get away, always take the opportunity. However as much as I value nike-jutsu there is also a very real danger of to getting too attached to the idea mentally. Running might not be an option if you have say a girlfriend or a baby carriage with you.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 20, 2010)

Yep, absolutely. (For the record, we teach concepts for these situations, including what we refer to as Buddy Guarding [body guarding principles, designed for people with small children, but can also be used for adult friends], Partner Protection [methods involving engaging someone when with a partner/friend/someone you can't "leave behind".... and also involving things like what you can do if your partner gets in the way!], and more. And even here, the same focus of Get Home Safe applies, it just applies to more than just you!).


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## Cirdan (Dec 20, 2010)

Well it is good to train for these things, but a scenario with multiple attackers and someone you have to defend is both extremely hard and chaotic. I would say it comes down to your will and whatever split second choise you make. The rest is academic.


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## xfighter88 (Dec 21, 2010)

Cirdan said:


> I think we are moving into nitpicking about wording again.. KF penguin mentions heart and the resolve to do harm which I read as the will to survive and do harm if neccecary. Then again english is not my first language.
> 
> I will always look for the best way to do maximum damage. Does not mean I will do so but it could be needed the next split second. Attacks happen with far less warning and with greater force than most suspect.


 
Be kind and smile to everyone you meet but have a plan as to how you would kill them. I forget who said that but it is pretty much how I function. It never hurts to be prepared.


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## elmerq (Dec 28, 2010)

eggg1994 said:


> hey guys i really want to know how effective bjj is for self defence and what kinds of joint locks, and throws you can do in self defence and i want the names of the techniques.


 
I've read most of the answers replied in this forum and for the most part they are correct. It does depend on the teacher, it depends on the situation, it depends on how long you've studied the art.  Yes it all depends.

But the art as a whole is considered a soft art because it lacks striking, traditionally speaking.  However, what the art does provide is opportunity and proper positioning to strike.

Personally, I believe that BJJ is most effective when your ultimate goal is to control and contain.  An example would your drunk friend decides to get in a fight with your other drunk friend.  You don't want to hurt them, let them hurt each other, or hurt you.  This is where I believe this art is most effective.

In self defense scenario, what this art teaches you is to avoid going to the ground and to react properly should the fight go to the ground.  For example, great techniques such as avoiding the single leg or double leg tackle, using your legs as defense against the punch in the guard position, or escaping locks.

Althought most believe the BJJ is a ground fighting system, many BJJ legendary artist would still teach throws, escapes, and locks from a standing postition.  For example, learning how to implement a proper standing gulluitine maneuver or escaping from it.  My advice to you is to practice Randori.  Randori is when you wrestle with a partner only from a standing level.  At first you wrestle each other to see whole get both arms in a proper position which with be the underarm hug.  Then you can add sweeps or throws in the mix.

Is BJJ effective in street fighting? I would say yes and no because the art itself doesn't teach striking, but does teach great fundamentals for proper set up for striking and self defense.

I hope my post helps!


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