# Who can tell me who this is?



## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Seems like a video from the 80ies. I have seen this guy in different vids on youtube but never did they mention his name.






And if anyone knows who this is, what's your opinion about him? Is his stuff good? Is it worth watching?


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2016)

Paul Vunak.
Used to be a trainer/instructor to US. Navy SEALS back in the day.
Rumor has it they beat his a$$ one day when they found out he was into drugs, etc.
Don't know and can't say whether his stuff is JKD or WC...?


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Woah, sounds like he was pretty badass if he was a navy seal.

What do you mean with beat his ***? Did they throw him out?
Even if he did drugs I still like him.


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Woah, sounds like he was pretty badass if he was a navy seal.
> 
> What do you mean with beat his ***? Did they throw him out?
> Even if he did drugs I still like him.



Never said he was a SEAL. He wasn't. I said he used to train them in hand to hand combat.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 12, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Paul Vunak.
> Used to be a trainer/instructor to US. Navy SEALS back in the day.
> Rumor has it they beat his a$$ one day when they found out he was into drugs, etc.
> Don't know and can't say whether his stuff is JKD or WC...?


He's JKD, not WC.

That video must be from a long time ago - he looks awfully young.


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Interesting. Is JKD better than WC? I mean Bruce Lee started with WC right? Then he developed JKD. Going by that JKD should be better.


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Interesting. Is JKD better than WC? I mean Bruce Lee started with WC right? Then he developed JKD. Going by that JKD should be better.



Nothing is 'better' than something else. 
Is the letter A better than the letter B?

Just because Bruce "invented" something (after his WC training) does not mean it is an improvement.


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## Marnetmar (May 12, 2016)

Ohoho, Paul Vunak. This is gonna be fun.


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> Ohoho, Paul Vunak. This is gonna be fun.



lol, why?



wckf92 said:


> Nothing is 'better' than something else.
> Is the letter A better than the letter B?
> 
> Just because Bruce "invented" something (after his WC training) does not mean it is an improvement.



I was just thinking maybe Lee identified flaws in wing chun and then corrected them. In this case his stuff would be better.
It would be like an old computer vs a new computer. The new computer is better, of course.


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## yak sao (May 12, 2016)

Bruce Lee only studied Wing Chun for a short time under Yip Man before he came to the US... some sources say two or three years.
JKD despite all the hype and hero-worship from Bruce Lee's fans was not an improvement on WC, it was his continuing on with his training by looking for effective and useful methods


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Thanks for the info. I wonder would Lee have won against Ip Man if Ip Man had been the same age?

I only know the Ip Man movies and they're awesome. Damn this one scene where he fights the 10 karate fighters is epic. I always get goose bumps when I watch this scene.


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## Jens (May 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> . I wonder would Lee have won against Ip Man if Ip Man had been the same age?



"david-peterson
regular - member
104 posts


0permalink

Hate to contradict what has been mentioned in some of the posts above, but I clearly recall Sifu telling the story that on one occasion after BruceLee returned to Hong Kong, he attempted his 'JKD' skills against Sigung Yip Man himself and was shut down instantly. As Sifu put it at the time he recounted the story, Bruce was so embarassed that he left without even taking his jacket off the hook by the doorway and it still hung there days later. I remember Sifu also saying that when he and Bruce were "messing about" at his home one time, Bruce attempted his signature "3 kick Lee" action and Wong Sifu countered it, taking Bruce very much by surprise. When Bruce asked him how he had been able to stop it, to give "face" to Bruce, Sifu simply said, "Oh, I've seen you do it in the movies so I knew what to look for." Please don't misinterpret my intention by posting this - I take NOTHING away from BruceLee and Sifu himself always had nothing but admiration for what Bruce had achieved and gave him all the credit for his achievements - the point is that BruceLee was NOT superman, anymore than Wong Shun Leung was not a superman, and thatBruce's "hands-on" experiences being less than Sifu's or Yip Man's means that even BruceLee could be overcome. This is a lesson for ALL of us, especially those who spend more time trying to emulate the feats of others instead of doing the hard work to improve themselves. As someone posted in this thread earlier, Sifu observed that the more BruceLee explored the martial arts, the more he was coming back to a more Wing Chun way of thinking and moving - he just did it with his own "flavour", based upon his own strengths and limitations - this is the real advantage of the WSL Method because, being CONCEPT-based, it is able to be moulded and adapted to suit each individual's needs. JKD is quite simply BruceLee's own expression of Wing Chun "thinking" and this is what many in the JKD world fail to realise - the CORE of JKD is Wing Chun, and if you don't have Wing Chun at your core, you CANNOT reach anything like the level that BruceLee achieved. Jesse Glover makes the point most clearly: without Yip Man AND Wong Shun Leung, there would NOT have been BruceLee. 
DMP
__________________'Huo dao lao, xue dao lao, haiyou sanfen xue bu dao'
reply
quote
18 April 2006 04:04 AM

Ive also heard the tale of Yip man kicking BruceLee from one end of the room to the other. As I heard BruceLee said 'oh you didnt teach me that' to which yip man replied 'theres a lot I didnt teach you' "


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 12, 2016)

Theres a lot of tales of Bruce Lee going back to fight Yip Man, but I've never seen any proof to any of them. Most of them involved Yip man winning, but a few that I've heard also involved Bruce Lee winning. I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly care, and if they fought one time you can't really decide who is better just based on that.


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## Wing Chun Auckland (May 12, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Theres a lot of tales of Bruce Lee going back to fight Yip Man, but I've never seen any proof to any of them. Most of them involved Yip man winning, but a few that I've heard also involved Bruce Lee winning. I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly care, and if they fought one time you can't really decide who is better just based on that.



LOL! Completely agree! The more skilled person doesn't always win. 
Also I don't care too much for stories that are hearsay, even if it is my own lineage.


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## Jens (May 12, 2016)

Jens said:


> "david-peterson
> regular - member
> 104 posts
> 
> ...





kempodisciple said:


> Theres a lot of tales of Bruce Lee going back to fight Yip Man, but I've never seen any proof to any of them. Most of them involved Yip man winning, but a few that I've heard also involved Bruce Lee winning. I've come to the conclusion that I don't particularly care, and if they fought one time you can't really decide who is better just based on that.



What I wrote above was written by David Peterson as it was relayed to him by his sifu Wong Sheung Leung. If Daivid Peterson  is around perhaps he can shed some more light or details about the encounter.


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## marques (May 13, 2016)

> he just did it with his own "flavour", based upon his own strengths and limitations - this is the real advantage of the WSL Method because, being CONCEPT-based, it is able to be moulded and adapted to suit each individual's needs.


My opinion is this is what everyone should do after achieving a certain level, or to go beyond a certain level. Or just to keep a level, when aging...
And I believe it is possible from whatever-based (good enough) style / instruction.


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## MAfreak (May 13, 2016)

heck, i must destroy some false hopes here (because op asks for effective self defense again and again and then comes back to wing chun again and again because of watching kung fu movies).
watching wing chun working great in chinese movies doesn't make it work in real fighting. its just to make china look cool.











bruce lee followed a principle many people today do: picking tactics and techniques from everywere. he for example adapted muhammad ali's footwork, wrestling takedowns and biting calfs as armbar escape.
today we are more modern. we adapt mike tysons boxing style (to be more exact cus d'amato's) and learn real escapes from grappling positions, not that stuff which wouldn't work because your arm could be broken within a split second while you bite the calf. 
the magical bruce lee wouldn't stand a chance in real modern mixed martial arts, no matter if he invented it (was also isn't true, look at gene lebell vs the boxer; japanese samurai ju jutsu; ancient greek pankration...).


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## kehcorpz (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> heck, i must destroy some false hopes here (because op asks for effective self defense again and again and then comes back to wing chun again and again because of watching kung fu movies).
> watching wing chun working great in chinese movies doesn't make it work in real fighting. its just to make china look cool.



can this be turned into a general statement like wing chun sucks compared to other stuff?

wing chun simply looks so cool. i just love watching videos of it.


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## Flying Crane (May 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> can this be turned into a general statement like wing chun sucks compared to other stuff?


No, but some people will try.


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## MAfreak (May 13, 2016)

i won't bash a style. wing chun has some good and important tactics, like "stop kicks" and being agressive.
but others use that too und have a way more effective kind of "fistfight". that chain punching stuff looks cool, i trained it too, just as part of martial ART but wouldn't ever use it in a fight, since its just weak. i think wing chun doesn't even has hooks and uppercuts in its curriculum.
watch the fights against the boxers in ip man 2 and 3, these are my favourite film fights of all time, but you see how easy a boxer blocks the chain punches using their double cover. then one could hit the boxers with hooks, but when wing chun don't use hooks, its a problem. sure, no big thing to teach yourself hooks, but when you trained the wing chun "fistfighing" style, you might not be able to use hooks and the like as a habit, which would be important in a not-staged fight. blocking in boxing also is more effective than in wing chun/kung fu and also karate and the like. one couldn't sweep away many incoming punches like that.
then there is no ground fighting.
this all is why i would bet all my money that wing chun isn't an effective fighting system.


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## wckf92 (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i won't bash a style. wing chun has some good and important tactics, like "stop kicks" and being agressive.
> but others use that too und have a way more effective kind of "fistfight". that chain punching stuff looks cool, i trained it too, just as part of martial ART but wouldn't ever use it in a fight, since its just weak. i think wing chun doesn't even has hooks and uppercuts in its curriculum.
> watch the fights against the boxers in ip man 2 and 3, these are my favourite film fights of all time, but you see how easy a boxer blocks the chain punches using their double cover. then one could hit the boxers with hooks, but when wing chun don't use hooks, its a problem. sure, no big thing to teach yourself hooks, but when you trained the wing chun "fistfighing" style, you might not be able to use hooks and the like as a habit, which would be important in a not-staged fight. blocking in boxing also is more effective than in wing chun/kung fu and also karate and the like. one couldn't sweep away many incoming punches like that.
> then there is no ground fighting.
> this all is why i would bet all my money that wing chun isn't an effective fighting system.



How long did you train wing chun?


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## MAfreak (May 13, 2016)

you will say what i wrote isn't true?
prove me the opposite!


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## kehcorpz (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> watch the fights against the boxers in ip man 2 and 3, these are my favourite film fights of all time, but you see how easy a boxer blocks the chain punches using their double cover. then one could hit the boxers with hooks, but when wing chun don't use hooks, its a problem.



that's true. the boxer made ip man look pretty clueless.


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## MAfreak (May 13, 2016)

i won't interprete too much in a film scene but its a good example in this case.
google search "fight quest" and "wing chun", then you see mixed martial artists training wing chun in china und when they use "accidently" their muay thai strikes, because its their habit, it works well against them.


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## Flying Crane (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i won't bash a style. wing chun has some good and important tactics, like "stop kicks" and being agressive.
> but others use that too und have a way more effective kind of "fistfight". that chain punching stuff looks cool, i trained it too, just as part of martial ART but wouldn't ever use it in a fight, since its just weak. i think wing chun doesn't even has hooks and uppercuts in its curriculum.
> watch the fights against the boxers in ip man 2 and 3, these are my favourite film fights of all time, but you see how easy a boxer blocks the chain punches using their double cover. then one could hit the boxers with hooks, but when wing chun don't use hooks, its a problem. sure, no big thing to teach yourself hooks, but when you trained the wing chun "fistfighing" style, you might not be able to use hooks and the like as a habit, which would be important in a not-staged fight. blocking in boxing also is more effective than in wing chun/kung fu and also karate and the like. one couldn't sweep away many incoming punches like that.
> then there is no ground fighting.
> this all is why i would bet all my money that wing chun isn't an effective fighting system.


See what I mean?


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## MAfreak (May 13, 2016)

many deluded people in martial arts.


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## Flying Crane (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> many deluded people in martial arts.


Yep


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## yak sao (May 13, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i won't bash a style. wing chun has some good and important tactics, like "stop kicks" and being agressive.
> but others use that too und have a way more effective kind of "fistfight". that chain punching stuff looks cool, i trained it too, just as part of martial ART but wouldn't ever use it in a fight, since its just weak. i think wing chun doesn't even has hooks and uppercuts in its curriculum.
> watch the fights against the boxers in ip man 2 and 3, these are my favourite film fights of all time, but you see how easy a boxer blocks the chain punches using their double cover. then one could hit the boxers with hooks, but when wing chun don't use hooks, its a problem. sure, no big thing to teach yourself hooks, but when you trained the wing chun "fistfighing" style, you might not be able to use hooks and the like as a habit, which would be important in a not-staged fight. blocking in boxing also is more effective than in wing chun/kung fu and also karate and the like. one couldn't sweep away many incoming punches like that.
> then there is no ground fighting.
> this all is why i would bet all my money that wing chun isn't an effective fighting system.




No offense, but you don't know as much about WC as you think you do. WC has an uppercut, we refer to it as a lifting punch in our lineage, and it also has a hook punch.
As for the punch itself being weak, it sounds like you haven't been exposed to any quality WC.


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## Wing Chun Auckland (May 13, 2016)

Never been a fan of those long man sau wu sau arm positions like the guy does in that cage fight.


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## MAfreak (May 14, 2016)

yak sao said:


> No offense, but you don't know as much about WC as you think you do. WC has an uppercut, we refer to it as a lifting punch in our lineage, and it also has a hook punch.
> As for the punch itself being weak, it sounds like you haven't been exposed to any quality WC.


i said i'm not sure on the hooks. and thank you for correcting me, i'd like to learn more about this since i never ever saw a wing chun guy using hooks.
but please don't tell me that chain punches aren't weak, it damages your credibility.


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