# TKD would be reccomender for girls... Right...



## Zephyor (Dec 2, 2016)

I mean... broader hips, more mobility... seems like they're better off with kicking than an average male. ( + they won't expose same weackness liek us when kicking high)... TKD has punches but they seem fairly light to me ... more liek speed-dependant rather than force... Wich emphasize the smaller built of an average woman/girl. 
also.... there was this girl at a local kickboxing gym... she's a beast... a blonde,gorgeus beatyful beast with legs of steel...  she kicks the hell of the guys... she doesnt even punch that much...


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 2, 2016)

Be careful not to generalize.


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## TrueJim (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't want to generalize either, but as I recall it is generally believed that men and women may be physiologically different from one another. Personally, I think I need to collect more empirical evidence to confirm such a hypothesis. 

That having been said...I do notice that the women at our school generally tend to be more limber than the men. They can generally kick higher with less training. I don't know that they tend to kick any _faster_ though. The upshot is that for demo routines they can perform some really nice kicks, but I haven't noticed any advantage in sparring. I suspect there would need to be a gender-specific difference in kicking _speed_, not limberness, to see a sparring advantage.


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## Leo89 (Dec 2, 2016)

TKD is for everyone, plus you can punch with power as well.

Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts. 

I smell a troll.


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## Balrog (Dec 2, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> TKD has punches but they seem fairly light to me ... more liek speed-dependant rather than force...


Ummmm....are you aware of how force is generated?   It's basic physics.







The faster your hands move, the more force you create.  The mass of your hands is a constant if you standing still.  If you are moving and you hit the correct foot and hand timing, then you will have mass equal to your body weight.  But the key is still the speed of the hands.

When you say that TKD punches are light because they are fast, it sounds to me like you might need to go back and work on your basis.  A lot.


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## Zephyor (Dec 2, 2016)

Balrog said:


> Ummmm....are you aware of how force is generated?   It's basic physics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A boxer and a tkd practritioner, both same height, same weight , same level of preparment walk into a bar... they trade punches... who will get KO'd !? we know the answer... I wasn't talking about the net force of the tkd punch, but the damage it inflicts. TKD punch vs a boxer's cross ^.^


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 2, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> A boxer and a tkd practritioner, both same height, same weight , same level of preparment walk into a bar... they trade punches... who will get KO'd !? we know the answer... I wasn't talking about the net force of the tkd punch, but the damage it inflicts. TKD punch vs a boxer's cross ^.^


Now let them trade kicks.


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## Tez3 (Dec 2, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> and punch her in the breasts.



Mmm, do that to me sunshine and you'll wish you'd never  been born, it's doesn't hurt nearly as much as you think it does and just serves to make a woman want to really hurt you for being a muppet.

Perhaps the troll you smell is nearer to you than you think.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 2, 2016)

Wow, some ignorance is coming to the surface in this thread.


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## Tez3 (Dec 2, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> A boxer and a tkd practritioner, both same height, same weight , same level of preparment walk into a bar... they trade punches... who will get KO'd !? we know the answer... I wasn't talking about the net force of the tkd punch, but the damage it inflicts. TKD punch vs a boxer's cross ^.^



Who wins? The police of course because anyone stupid enough to go trading blows in a bar deserves locking up for that stupidity. There's is no such word as 'preparment' btw.
I've seen good and bad punches in both boxing and TKD, good punches are just that, good punches, doesn't make any difference which style.


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## WaterGal (Dec 2, 2016)

Women do tend to be more flexible.  Just like how men's bodies produce more testosterone, which allows them to build muscle more easily, women's bodies produce more of a hormone called relaxin (I'm not making that up, it's really the name) which allows the connective tissue to stretch and become flexible more easily.  This is essential for women because our bodies have to do a lot of rearranging during pregnancy and childbirth.


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## WaterGal (Dec 2, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> TKD is for everyone, plus you can punch with power as well.
> 
> Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts.
> 
> I smell a troll.



No.  They're really not _that _sensitive in that way, not more so than, say, your face.  Plus, in TKD, you wear a chest protector when you spar, at least if you're doing KKW/WTF sparring.


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## Tez3 (Dec 2, 2016)

A woman's weakness is often the unwillingness to beat someone up because they know they will be left to wash the blood off the floor and the furniture. That's not my weakness, I can afford a cleaner.


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## Leo89 (Dec 2, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Mmm, do that to me sunshine and you'll wish you'd never  been born, it's doesn't hurt nearly as much as you think it does and just serves to make a woman want to really hurt you for being a muppet.
> 
> Perhaps the troll you smell is nearer to you than you think.


Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 2, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.


I think her comment was really meant to point out that perhaps you don't have the greatest understanding of female anatomy.  So...the comment you had made was just rather...off.


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## Danny T (Dec 2, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.


Yep...that's going be more interesting than you think...
Ok, I've got a drink and the popcorn is ready. Let game begin.


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 2, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> A boxer and a tkd practritioner, both same height, same weight , same level of preparment walk into a bar... they trade punches... who will get KO'd !?


The first one to get hit properly.


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## Dylan9d (Dec 2, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.



@Leo89 , I see you are in the States and it's always easy to talk crap with alot of water in between......just saying.

I have sparred with women that maybe didn't had the strenght as men but sure as hell had more fighting spirit than most men......


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.



Keyboard warrior, oooh get you ducky! For someone who can't say breasts you are rather chirpy about your opinions, never mind, aging usually sorts that out.
As you have already been told being punched in the chest ( I will respect your sensibilities and not call them breasts) doesn't hurt anymore than being punched in the face, and that depends on how well you punch. Underestimating any opponent/attacker on grounds of gender/size/ height etc is a grave mistake, take them all seriously and fight accordingly... unless it's a Gurkha then run for your life. I would not for example think a man's weakness is his genitals because I have fought enough men to know that they will take a fighting stance or other that protects them. ( if you have ever been in the military you will also know that when asleep in the back of the guardroom on guard duty soldiers for example will all sleep with one hand down their trousers to 'protect' this vital part of their anatomy, it's so endearing ) I also know that if hit in this area ( don't want to say in knackers, you might blush) men most often don't fall down in a heap, they get mad and fight harder.
Now, brush up on your anatomy, your gf will appreciate it, you can be a much better lover AND fighter then.


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## Zephyor (Dec 3, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Now let them trade kicks.  True dat... XD


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 3, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts.


Haven't been around a lot of women have you?


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## Buka (Dec 3, 2016)

My wife, the lovely Veronica, has trained western boxing, old school Tae-Kwon Do, grappling and American full contact Karate for thirty years.

Everybody has to be doing something when they die, if you want to be punching her in the breasts, that would be your choice. More power to you. I'd get a kick out of it.

This is her with her grappling instructor, Rickson.












And there is nothing in the world that that women loves to do more than fight.

Take your best breast shot, I dare you.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Dec 3, 2016)

I was doing light contact sparring once with a woman and did a push kick to the hogu.  She got upset and yelled at me that it was light contact.  To a guy, I think a push kick would be light contact in that it is not a hard HIT. To her, it was not light contact.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 3, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was doing light contact sparring once with a woman and did a push kick to the hogu.  She got upset and yelled at me that it was light contact.  To a guy, I think a push kick would be light contact in that it is not a hard HIT. To her, it was not light contact.


I'm not really sure how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was doing light contact sparring once with a woman and did a push kick to the hogu.  She got upset and yelled at me that it was light contact.  To a guy, I think a push kick would be light contact in that it is not a hard HIT. To her, it was not light contact.



Well not really, light contact is the same for everyone, you were going too hard full stop, not too hard for her in particular but harder than light contact. Men aren't all six foot and weighing 18 stone, they also come in all shapes and sizes, I've known a lot of strong women in fact across the village from me lives a lady called Donna Moore, think you might be stronger than her?  About - DONNA MOORE


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## chrispillertkd (Dec 3, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> I wasn't talking about the net force of the tkd punch, but the damage it inflicts.



You may want to consider that the net force of a blow isn't exactly unrelated to the amount of damage it inflicts. It isn't the only variable, but it is an important one.

Pax,

Chris


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Dec 3, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Well not really, light contact is the same for everyone, you were going too hard full stop, not too hard for her in particular but harder than light contact. Men aren't all six foot and weighing 18 stone, they also come in all shapes and sizes, I've known a lot of strong women in fact across the village from me lives a lady called Donna Moore, think you might be stronger than her?  About - DONNA MOORE


I'm not going to bother looking her up.  I didn't say I was stronger than anyone, nor that I was 18 stones. To me light contact is contact that touches without a hard hit.  For example grappling martial arts are "soft styles" because there is no hard strike by the opponent.  If one person is more sensitive than another, then I can't help but think that the definition of "light" changes.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 3, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I'm not going to bother looking her up.  I didn't say I was stronger than anyone, nor that I was 18 stones. To me light contact is contact that touches without a hard hit.  For example grappling martial arts are "soft styles" because there is no hard strike by the opponent.  If one person is more sensitive than another, then I can't help but think that the definition of "light" changes.


And I still wonder what that has to do with the conversation.


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I'm not going to bother looking her up.  I didn't say I was stronger than anyone, nor that I was 18 stones. To me light contact is contact that touches without a hard hit.  For example grappling martial arts are "soft styles" because there is no hard strike by the opponent. * If one person* is more sensitive than another, then I can't help but think that the definition of "light" changes.




You didn't say person at first though now you have changed it, you obviously saw my point. Of course your post has nothing to do with the thread, you just wanted to say this woman was weak.
I don't think you understood my post because being six foot and 18 stone wasn't a comment aimed at you at all, just something to say you shouldn't generalise.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Dec 3, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You didn't say person at first though now you have changed it, you obviously saw my point. Of course your post has nothing to do with the thread, you just wanted to say this woman was weak.



I was talking about the comment earlier in the thread where someone wrote "Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts." And I wasn't she was weak, only that her chest was more sensitive than I would have anticipated.


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was talking about the comment earlier in the thread where someone wrote "Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts." And I wasn't she was weak, only that her chest was more sensitive than I would have anticipated.



So, you punch a women in the breasts and claim it was her 'sensitiveness' not your over hard so called light contact that made her flinch. I see.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Dec 3, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> So, you punch a women in the breasts and claim it was her 'sensitiveness' not your over hard so called light contact that made her flinch. I see.


Uh, no.  We were wearing hogus, and it was a push kick to set up another kick.  It was simply a technique I would do with anyone; I hadn't contemplated that it would be different for a woman given we were wearing full protective equipment..


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 3, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> TKD is for everyone, plus you can punch with power as well.



No, it's not. There is no MA that is for everyone. I've recommended a change to a different art to more than one student.



Leo89 said:


> Not to mention, a woman's weakness is right on her chest, all you'd have to do is break the distance and punch her in the breasts.



I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. 

I seem to recall from your posts that you're both very young and very inexperienced. Comments like this certainly lend credence to that impression.



Leo89 said:


> I smell a troll.



So do I, but I doubt it's who you're thinking of.


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## KangTsai (Dec 3, 2016)

I prefer more testosterone than a different pelvic structure.


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## Tez3 (Dec 4, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> Uh, no.  We were wearing hogus, and it was a push kick to set up another kick.  It was simply a technique I would do with anyone; I hadn't contemplated that it would be different for a woman given we were wearing full protective equipment..



No, it's not different for women, it was different for *her*. That was my point, would you judge all men by one man's reaction? Wearing protection there would have been no difference and not so different without it, it's simply this one woman who reacted like this, perhaps it was harder than she expected or you were harder than you thought, there's a number of reasons she could have reacted that way, it doesn't mean all women do. It doesn't mean strikes to a woman's breasts are effective strikes either.


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 4, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I'm not going to bother looking her up.


You don't have to, there's a link.


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## Balrog (Dec 4, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> A boxer and a tkd practritioner, both same height, same weight , same level of preparment walk into a bar... they trade punches... who will get KO'd !? we know the answer...


Yes, I do know the answer.  It would be whoever got hit first.

Force is force.  It doesn't matter who delivers the force.  If I can punch hard enough to go through two inches of white pine board, I can certainly break bones in an opponent's body.  And vice versa.  Same for the goon off the street who doesn't know diddly about boxing or taekwondo, but manages to land a lucky haymaker.


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## drop bear (Dec 4, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I was doing light contact sparring once with a woman and did a push kick to the hogu.  She got upset and yelled at me that it was light contact.  To a guy, I think a push kick would be light contact in that it is not a hard HIT. To her, it was not light contact.



Yeah push kicks are hard to aim off.

I Think it would be the same as if I light contact push kicked a guy in the face.

A bit mean for the circumstance.


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## drop bear (Dec 4, 2016)

Balrog said:


> Yes, I do know the answer.  It would be whoever got hit first.
> 
> Force is force.  It doesn't matter who delivers the force.  If I can punch hard enough to go through two inches of white pine board, I can certainly break bones in an opponent's body.  And vice versa.  Same for the goon off the street who doesn't know diddly about boxing or taekwondo, but manages to land a lucky haymaker.



It wont be a very big bone though.


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## TrueJim (Dec 4, 2016)

drop bear said:


> It wont be a very big bone though.



What an interesting question.

According to Wikipedia, the tensile strength of pine (breaking with the grain) is 40 MPa.  The tensile strength of bone is about 3 times as much: 130 MPa. So presumably if you can break a 2-inch pine board, you could break a 2/3-inch-thick board made of bone? 

Of course shape matters too: the bone of a human skull is only about 1/4-inch thick, but it's round so it's hard to break (like an egg shell).


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## Balrog (Dec 5, 2016)

drop bear said:


> It wont be a very big bone though.


Ribs work fine for me.


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## Balrog (Dec 5, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> What an interesting question.
> 
> According to Wikipedia, the tensile strength of pine (breaking with the grain) is 40 MPa.  The tensile strength of bone is about 3 times as much: 130 MPa. So presumably if you can break a 2-inch pine board, you could break a 2/3-inch-thick board made of bone?
> 
> Of course shape matters too: the bone of a human skull is only about 1/4-inch thick, but it's round so it's hard to break (like an egg shell).


Agreed.   As I mentioned above, if I can punch hard enough to break ribs, then if I land that shot on someone's face, it would cause some serious problems to them.

I personally would rather land a hard blow on the brachial plexus origin.  Does less damage, causes as much (if not more) pain and stuns the opponent enough to drop him so that I can escape.


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## Tez3 (Dec 5, 2016)

If women's breasts are such a weakness in some people's eyes I wonder how they explain female fighters? In all disciplines, boxing, Muay Thai, kick boxing, karate, MMA etc etc. There are parts of the body that are good targets and others that are a waste of effort going for.
It seems 'fun' for some people to have a go at TKD, it's not my style but I know plenty of people who do train, they are hard fighters with devastating kicks AND punches, very good martial artists so it's probably best not to judge any style by a couple of people you may have seen.


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 5, 2016)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I'm not going to bother looking her up.  I didn't say I was stronger than anyone, nor that I was 18 stones. To me light contact is contact that touches without a hard hit.  For example grappling martial arts are "soft styles" because there is no hard strike by the opponent.  If one person is more sensitive than another, then I can't help but think that the definition of "light" changes.



That's not what I thought a soft style was.  So opponents are not allowed to strike hard?  How do you arrange that?


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 5, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> What an interesting question.
> 
> According to Wikipedia, the tensile strength of pine (breaking with the grain) is 40 MPa.  The tensile strength of bone is about 3 times as much: 130 MPa. So presumably if you can break a 2-inch pine board, you could break a 2/3-inch-thick board made of bone?
> 
> Of course shape matters too: the bone of a human skull is only about 1/4-inch thick, but it's round so it's hard to break (like an egg shell).



I understand where you are coming from, but a blow to the skull, and unconsciousness from that blow, has to do with trauma to the brain, not the skull itself.


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 5, 2016)

Leo89 said:


> Yeah, if I did that to you, you'd be bent over in pain, wishing you'd never been born either. Calm down keyboard warrior.



Most martial artists are Type A people.  Even if they aren't when they start MA, they tend to become more so as they progress in their art.  Usually Type A people even if they don't start with it, tend to acquire wisdom

When you get there do let us know.  I would be the first to want to congratulate you.


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## drop bear (Dec 5, 2016)

Balrog said:


> Ribs work fine for me.



Yeah ribs shatter all the time. It is hell on my friends who do kyokushin.


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## Balrog (Dec 6, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> Most martial artists are Type A people.  Even if they aren't when they start MA, they tend to become more so as they progress in their art.  Usually Type A people even if they don't start with it, tend to acquire wisdom.


I'm still working on that myself.   

I've learned a lot in 30+ years of training.  One of the main things I have learned is that there is still a helluva lot more to learn.


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 6, 2016)

Balrog said:


> I'm still working on that myself.
> 
> I've learned a lot in 30+ years of training.  One of the main things I have learned is that there is still a helluva lot more to learn.



Yep.  I am always proud of new things I learn, in life or MA.  Until I realize how much more there is to learn, and so little time.  I'm never so smart as I think.

Thanks for the reminder (again).


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 6, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> What an interesting question.
> 
> According to Wikipedia, the tensile strength of pine (breaking with the grain) is 40 MPa.  The tensile strength of bone is about 3 times as much: 130 MPa. So presumably if you can break a 2-inch pine board, you could break a 2/3-inch-thick board made of bone?
> 
> Of course shape matters too: the bone of a human skull is only about 1/4-inch thick, but it's round so it's hard to break (like an egg shell).



Misleadingly simple. Bones come in too many sizes and shapes to generalize like this. Further, bone structure is, in this context, directional. For example; jump off your couch. Land on your feet. You didn't break anything, did you?
Now take that same level of impact and shift it 90 degrees, so it's across the bone instead of along it. I'll bring some splint material after you do...

This is one reason why 'proper technique' exists. Punch right, hand OK. Punch wrong, hand broke.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> It wont be a very big bone though.


Any shmo can break a bone in my hand if he hits it wrong with his head.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 7, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Misleadingly simple. Bones come in too many sizes and shapes to generalize like this. Further, bone structure is, in this context, directional. For example; jump off your couch. Land on your feet. You didn't break anything, did you?
> Now take that same level of impact and shift it 90 degrees, so it's across the bone instead of along it. I'll bring some splint material after you do...
> 
> This is one reason why 'proper technique' exists. Punch right, hand OK. Punch wrong, hand broke.


I'd think the fact that most bones are hollow cylinders would play in there, as well. Wouldn't that structure be more resistant to side force than a similar amount of bone that was just a cylinder (not expanded and hollowed)?


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## TrueJim (Dec 7, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Misleadingly simple...



Agreed! That's why I said "a board made of bone"...the only way the analogy could hope to even approximate accuracy is to assume the thing being broken has comparable shape. As *gpseymour* rightly points out, bones have stronger tensile strength than flexural strength, because bones are hollow cylinders. My only point was that -- shape aside -- bone is about 3 times as strong as pine.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 7, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'd think the fact that most bones are hollow cylinders would play in there, as well. Wouldn't that structure be more resistant to side force than a similar amount of bone that was just a cylinder (not expanded and hollowed)?



Bones are like blades, in this context. They have to provide both rigidity AND flexibility. Solid bone would not flex very well and would be phenomenally heavy. The matrix structure of bone provides more surface area as well as both rigidity and flexibility.


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## drop bear (Dec 7, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Any shmo can break a bone in my hand if he hits it wrong with his head.




Yeah that is what the pine boards represent. The ability to shatter bones with each punch.


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