# Question about Von Docks Home Study Program



## Shinobi89 (Sep 23, 2008)

Hello all. I just had a question about his training. Does he actually teach anything other then Tiajutsu within the study course? Does it go over the 18 disciplines, like shinobi Iri, ect? Thank you for the answers. 
Jered


----------



## blood shadow (Sep 24, 2008)

The black belt course covers all the basics leading up to shodan.It starts off with the basics then intermediate and advanced levels leading to your black belt test which is done in person.And yes they do go over the 18 skills including those  that  draw most people to the art shinobi iri-stealth and inton-jutsu -escape and consealment.


----------



## ElfTengu (Sep 25, 2008)

I can tell you that it won't go for as much on Ebay as you paid for it.

The video course should be really be a last resort if you can't get to a dojo.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 25, 2008)

Definitely find a quality instructor and train with them.  Books, dvd's, videos, etc. are all good to use in a supplementary manner.


----------



## Shinobi89 (Sep 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the reply's everyone. 

If there was a closer dojo then Miami, or some wheres that is within driving distance I would be more then happy to train there. But the closest two to where I am would be a minimum of 2-3 hours away, one way. With the price of gas right now I honestly can't afford that. 

I thank you for your reply's.


----------



## Shicomm (Sep 25, 2008)

Maybe a small tip  

Contact the nearest dojo (s) and ask if they know about training groups active in your area.
Sometimes a few students that are also quite far from the dojo have small training groups and train at the nearst dojo once in a while.

It might be worth the effort !


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 25, 2008)

Truthfully 2 to 3 hours is not all the bad.  What I would do in your situation is go to a monthly seminar at a school or have a monthly private or semi private lesson then work on the fundamentals presented and slowly build up skill level.  In time who knows there may be an instructor closer to you.


----------



## ElfTengu (Sep 26, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> Thanks for all the reply's everyone.
> 
> If there was a closer dojo then Miami, or some wheres that is within driving distance I would be more then happy to train there. But the closest two to where I am would be a minimum of 2-3 hours away, one way. With the price of gas right now I honestly can't afford that.
> 
> I thank you for your reply's.


 
Or how about finding like-minded souls to jump in your car and share the fuel costs?

Talk a few buddies into it.


----------



## stephen (Sep 26, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> Thanks for all the reply's everyone.
> 
> If there was a closer dojo then Miami, or some wheres that is within driving distance I would be more then happy to train there. But the closest two to where I am would be a minimum of 2-3 hours away, one way. With the price of gas right now I honestly can't afford that.
> 
> I thank you for your reply's.




I see that your main concern is the price of gas rather than the time in the car, but I think my stock comment about distance is still applicable: You can 'waste' an extra few hours in the car every week, or you can waste 10 years training poorly.....Your decision.... 

Make the substitutions for time and money and I think it still works.


----------



## Shinobi89 (Sep 26, 2008)

Hello all, and thanks again. 

I believe what I plan on doing is getting the DvD set from both Von Donk and the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu, I have talked to the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu Grandmaster personally via email, she is ver nice and seems to know what she is talking about. 

I think I will study both of these and do as one person on here sugested, I will go to the closest credible instructor to me, possibly even get a few friends to go. If I can get a few friends to go, I could possibly make it bi-monthly, or maybe even weekly. 

I think I will do my best to start a group around here, maybe practice at the YMCA, or some where that allows people to hold groups and such things. We could practice there, showing eachother what were doing wrong, critiqing each other or something, using the videos as refference material sense we can't go to class often. 

We would go to class, probably a personal class with us, who ever else wants to go, all of us split the cost, maybe get a hour or so of training in and present what we know, thats the best thing I can come up with. 

I have no problem driving, if there was a very good instructor near by, very credible, I would go very far out of my way to train with them, may concern is the gas prices, they have went up 90 cents do to the hurricanes that came through and closed off a bridge. They forgot to lower it back to what it was though -.-. 

But if I can get 2 more people, or maybe 3, pliting the trainin cost, as well as the gas, it wont be that bad, it will be affordable. 

Thanks everyone 
Jered


----------



## blood shadow (Sep 26, 2008)

his name is van donk just to let you know.


----------



## stephen (Sep 27, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> I believe what I plan on doing is getting the DvD set from both Von Donk and the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu, I have talked to the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu Grandmaster personally via email, she is ver nice and seems to know what she is talking about.



Sorry to be blunt, but you're not in a position to know whether people 'know what they're talking about'.

You should do some more research concerning training if your interested in devoting the next 10,20,30+ years to it. 

You should email that dojo in Miami, and all the others in the state, and explain your situation. They may be too far, but they may know of closer groups, or have suggestions.

If you haven't sent this free email to a few legitimate, real dojo - but you're willing to drop a bunch of money on train-at-home DVDs by people that seem 'very nice and seems to know what she is talking about' to someone with no real knowledge of the subject matter...Again, waste 10 minutes or waste 10 years...


----------



## Shinobi89 (Sep 27, 2008)

I may not know a lot of what I am talking about, but I have sent many emails to different people, mostly in my state, some out of state, some out of the country. I have also been researching this heavily. The Grandmaster of the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu seems to know what she is talking about, I judge my basis on what I have researched, as well as what others have told to me in Emails and over the phone. 

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post back in this thread once I get things moving more, it should be rather soon I think.


----------



## jks9199 (Sep 27, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> I may not know a lot of what I am talking about, but I have sent many emails to different people, mostly in my state, some out of state, some out of the country. I have also been researching this heavily. The Grandmaster of the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu seems to know what she is talking about, I judge my basis on what I have researched, as well as what others have told to me in Emails and over the phone.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post back in this thread once I get things moving more, it should be rather soon I think.


You'll have to decide for yourself... but you might want to consider doing a search on her here on MT and elsewhere.  You might find differing thoughts that may have an influence on your opinion.

Just some general thoughts about how you're judging potential sources of instruction.  Remember... it's pretty easy to sound knowledgeable on a phone call (and even more so via email!).  It's pretty easy to look skilled in videos where you control the demonstration.  It's a lot harder to know if they're actually skilled, and even more so, if they're any good at instruction.  I'm not at all a fan of videos for instruction; there are too many subtleties that the camera may miss.  And a camera cannot correct you.  Videos can be good reference tools -- not primary sources of instruction.

Listen to the folks above in the thread; they're offering you numerous ideas and directions to research to find actual training in the ninjutsu-type martial arts.  Or even "settle" for something else locally that you can get real training in, even though it's not any of the various ninpo/ninjutsu/ninja taijutsu schools.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 27, 2008)

I would continue my search and maybe do some more in depth searching regarding available training.


----------



## Cryozombie (Sep 27, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> The Grandmaster of the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu seems to know what she is talking about, I judge my basis on what I have researched, as well as what others have told to me in Emails and over the phone.




Gee she must know what she's talking about, look at this impressive resume:


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,serif]AWARDS/ACOMPLISHMENTS:[/FONT]*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]                                       [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]- *Inducted into the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]                                       [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*- Only non-Japanese Awarded Menkyo Kaiden of Tomo Ryu Shinobi-jutsu*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]                                       [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*- Founder of Ninjutsu International Federation*[/FONT]
> ...



Look at all those Ranks she got in so many arts in such a short period of time!  She _*must *_be good!


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi
Being from Miami I know of 2 who teach Bujinkan and Genbukan.

Also There is others in the area of Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm beach.

 If you are interested let those at the dojo's know. I do not know where you are that is 3 hours from Miami but here:

http://www.orlandobujinkandojo.com/florida_dojos.htm

Going once a week or so is better than learning from video.


----------



## Shinobi89 (Sep 27, 2008)

Its ether 3 or more hours, I believe map quest ether said 4 or 8, one or the other I believe. I live in the Fort Walton Beach Area, close to Destin/Sand Destin. 

I'm going to take actual class's, I've got a group of friends (2 other people), one that has a few months (6) training in Bujikan Ninjutsu, so he will be able to tell me if I am doing anything wrong. 

I am still getting the VD Home Study set, but now that I have someone I know that is closer, he can show me if I am doing anything wrong, plus, were going to be going to a actual dojo, 2-5 times a month. 

This is the best I think I can do, for now anyway. Also, I have Googled the grandmaster of the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu Dojo, I haven't found anything bad about her, nothing that anyone can prove anyway. A previous poster showing the ranks that she has, that has no point. She may go through ranking fast, that doen't mean _she doesn't know her information_. I will do more searching, I understand that sounding knowledgeable over the phone and the net are a simple feat, but what disquallifys her as being a good teacher?


----------



## arnisador (Sep 27, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> Look at all those Ranks she got in so many arts in such a short period of time!  She _*must *_be good!



Eh, that _is _an impressive rate of accomplishment, eh? It certainly raises some suspicions about quality...


----------



## Cryozombie (Sep 28, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> I'm going to take actual class's, I've got a group of friends (2 other people), one that has a few months (6) training in Bujikan Ninjutsu, so he will be able to tell me if I am doing anything wrong.


 
OMG.  Thats the funniest thing I have heard in days.  Thank you!


----------



## Cryozombie (Sep 28, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Eh, that _is _an impressive rate of accomplishment, eh? It certainly raises some suspicions about quality...


 
Shhh.  I wasn't gonna say that... hehe.


----------



## jks9199 (Sep 28, 2008)

Shinobi89 said:


> Its ether 3 or more hours, I believe map quest ether said 4 or 8, one or the other I believe. I live in the Fort Walton Beach Area, close to Destin/Sand Destin.
> 
> I'm going to take actual class's, I've got a group of friends (2 other people), one that has a few months (6) training in Bujikan Ninjutsu, so he will be able to tell me if I am doing anything wrong.
> 
> ...


With very few and very rare exceptions, someone who's trained in ANYTHING for *6 whole months* is not at a point where they can offer more than minimal correction.  For example, after 6 months or so, I'd expect one of my students to be able to name the punches -- but not teach more than the order of them.

It seems quite clear that you've made up your mind how you're going to train.  Advice from those who have been there and done that doesn't seem to be making a dent in your opinion.  I wish you luck in your training.


----------



## ElfTengu (Sep 29, 2008)

Those who know me will be amused to know that I once bought the Van Donk Black Belt Home Study Course after nearly a decade away from the art, though I must point out that this was some time ago, before it was even available on DVD.

And at about the same time I joined the BBD.

And even though very little of what the BBD do nowadays is anything like the Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu of Soke Masaaki Hatsumi, it was still a million times more beneficial than watching people go through the motions on my television set.

And when I did make the move back to the Bujinkan having found a dojo, it was the practical experience of training in a dojo that did me far more good than the video course, so much so that I was graded to 3rd kyu in my first Bujinkan grading and little over a couple of years later have now achieved the black belt I had been aspiring to since 1986!

I am sure that Mr Van Donk's extra curricular material is great for people who already have some idea of what they are doing, but the full Black Belt Home Study Course is really for people who are hundreds and hundreds of miles from a dojo and have no other way of training.

You must also be aware that in this art there is more than one variation of doing almost everything, and I'm not talking about henka, I'm talking about the standard basic technique. This is even the case in Japanese dojo I am told. So having thoroughly absorbed what you believe you have learned from a DVD or tape, you may find that you have either learned it wrong, or you are doing it the Van Donk way, which may not be the way of the teacher who you eventually end up with, in fact I pretty much guarantee it.

I would even go so far as to recommend studying judo, jujutsu or aikido in a real dojo as preparation for real Bujinkan training, rather than a home study course, or in conjunction with a home study course (but don't try the Bujinkan material out in a non-Bujinkan dojo, for a billion reasons).

Finally as to this 'other' grandmaster. Some people rush to be teachers at the expense of being proper students. Nobody could learn more than a couple of arts to those levels with any real mastery. There seem to be some genuine Bujinkan gradings in there but you can't fully teach Bujinkan until you are 5th dan and even then there are people of 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th dan and higher who do not consider themselves good enough to teach or have any students so why is someone far lower than them in such a rush to be a big shot master teacher? It's just not Budo.

And some of the arts and organisations listed are questionable. I won't say any more than that but the Eishin Ryu, if she has genuine rank in it, is probably the only thing listed there that has any foundation in reality or would help with Bujinkan training.

Remember, anything Americanised ends up owing far more to its American influences than its Japanese origins which tend to fade away under the shadow of the stars and stripes.

Watch Napoleon Dynamite. Rex Kwon Do!


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist (Sep 29, 2008)

> Its ether 3 or more hours, I believe map quest ether said 4 or 8, one or the other I believe. I live in the Fort Walton Beach Area, close to Destin/Sand Destin.


 In my link there are schools closer than Miami. Some closer to your area.



> I'm going to take actual class's, I've got a group of friends (2 other people), one that has a few months (6) training in Bujikan Ninjutsu, so he will be able to tell me if I am doing anything wrong.


 
Good an actual dojo the way to go!! Careful with learning from someone with only a few months of training he may not have correct kamae or proper grasping of technique. However going to class together and practicing together what is taught in class is a good way to go.



> I am still getting the VD Home Study set, but now that I have someone I know that is closer, he can show me if I am doing anything wrong, plus, were going to be going to a actual dojo, 2-5 times a month.


  I guess..As a supplement to your dojo training. I don't know if I would buy it if I was training at an actual dojo but to each their own.



> This is the best I think I can do, for now anyway. Also, I have Googled the grandmaster of the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu Dojo, I haven't found anything bad about her, nothing that anyone can prove anyway. A previous poster showing the ranks that she has, that has no point. She may go through ranking fast, that doen't mean _she doesn't know her information_. I will do more searching, I understand that sounding knowledgeable over the phone and the net are a simple feat, but what disquallifys her as being a good teacher?


 Her questionable ranking is questionable Ninja ryuha. I suppose it is possible to go thru ranking rather fast however beware of those who have multi ranking in quite a bit of arts. Just common Red flags seen in the Martial arts.


----------

