# Taekwondo School/Master too harsh for my 4 year old?



## Calliegirl (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi, there!

Okay, so my husband and I have always wanted both of our children to take Taekwondo. We thought we "shopped" around well and decided on a place. Our Grandmaster is full Korean (trained in Korea) and has a good resume (8th or 9th degree blackbelt?), served in Korean military, etc. 

I definitely don't want to paint a false picture of him becasue he is very nice to the children. Hugs them, gives them high fives, etc. HOWEVER, he does have a stick (forget the Korean name) that he carries around. In the beginning, I barey noticed it. Now, it seems he uses it more and more. I am 100% confident he would NEVER hurt a child. He can be waving it and, then, hug a child the next minute. However, he does use it to intimidate/scare a child into good behavior if they are not focusing (remember, my child is 4 1/2). More alarming to me, is he does wack/hit/pat (whatever you want to call it) on their back, bottom of their feet, bottom, etc. even when they just do something not right or if he feels they are not focusing enough to do it right. It is not enough to hurt, but to get their attention. I see my son's eyes get bugged out and he is afaid of it. We don't do any kind of spanking or corporal punishment so this is pretty new to him. In the car the other day, he told me that "if Master ever slaps him again, he will want to walk out and never take TKD again". This alarms me. First of all, whether true or not, his 4 year old perception is that he slaps him. Second, he is learning you get your way through intimidation. Third, I don't want him to want to quit TKD. 

Talking to more parents, I hear this is common. The other parents don't seem to mind "since it doesn't hurt" them. I am worried about the principle. Another parent told me her son was taking a stick to their younger brother and asking if he wanted to get smacked like the master said. 

I don't want to be the weanie parent. I would not be complaining if he "hit" while they were sparring as in that case, you are "fighting" with protective gear, but this is not the case. It is a tool he is using to teach. I am going to try to talk to him, but there is a definite communication barrier. If he does agree to stop waving it in front of my son, I then have to decide if that is good enough - still see it happening with others.

What do you guys think? okay? 

There is one other school I can try that does not do this, but the times are more inconvenient, the master's resume is not as great, but I am willing to switch if need be. I just want a reality check from others. My son does want to switch.

Thanks, in advance!


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## Steve (Jul 26, 2012)

Without being there, I can't tell you whether this would bother me or not, but I am a firm believer that parents should always trust their instincts.


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## shesulsa (Jul 26, 2012)

I think you have to do what is right by your child. Some children can handle this kind of training and others can't and it may not have anything to do with your parenting skills. This is, in some cases, effective but not without ongoing discussion about what he is doing and *why* and the admonition that this is not to be taken personally.

That said, it is up to you to ensure this master does not cross a line. You (and Dad?) need to decide what that line is.  To help you figure that out, I would advise you to visit the highest training class your are allowed to audit. I would simply say you would love to see the more advanced ranks train and see what your son is in for.

I'm not a huge fan of training children via physical intimidation by me.  Some children need some extra oomph, tho. 

It is my understanding that this type of traditional training is fairly common in Korea - but I have not been there so I cannot assert the validity of such a claim. 

Guiding your boy through this could be difficult though not likely impossible. Still - if it's not right for him (or your family), there are a lot of taekwondo schools out there.


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## pgsmith (Jul 26, 2012)

In addition to the two excellent posts before this one, you should bear in mind that the status of an instructor's resume is not very important to a 4 year old. More important is someone that fits your schedule (which makes it easier for you to keep going) and that makes your child eager to go to class (which makes it easier to keep him going). I know a good number of outstanding martial artists with stellar credentials that are horrible around young children. It is far preferable to have an instructor that can deal well with young children while teaching them the rudiments of the art. You can always change to a better instructor later when your child might benefit more from superior instruction.


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## rickster (Jul 26, 2012)

If your child does not have bad behavior problems, i.e., in need of discipline, then this is a "act of bullying" in his eyes.

This could have a effect on your child, and if I were you, pull him out if he gets really bothered by it

Tell the instructor that you do not like this method.

This type of method is antiquated and he should adapt to the currebt culture, not his past culture


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## zDom (Jul 27, 2012)




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## harlan (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd have a polite discussion with him about it. It's a vestigal remnant of old world training, and not necessary. Especially in another culture. It is used to 'motivate' and 'correct'...and it's completely up to the teacher as to the level of usage. 

Personally, I would expect him to be a stickler on keeping it, and if that turns out to be the case, I would move along.


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## grumpywolfman (Jul 27, 2012)

Huh? ... teaching martial arts to a four year old? I just don't comprehend that mentality   Four years old, I'm thinking finger paintings & story time at the public library.


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## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2012)

grumpywolfman said:


> Huh? ... teaching martial arts to a four year old? I just don't comprehend that mentality  Four years old, I'm thinking finger paintings & story time at the public library.



I agree, if it *has* to be martial arts one of those Little Dragon type places where everything is on a level for four years ie games, and easy techniques for them to practice. Let kids be kids, plenty of time for proper martial arts as they get older, stronger and that bit more mature.


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## zDom (Jul 27, 2012)

I find with a lot of students that telling them "bend your front knee" for a front stance, for example, simply doesn't register in their brain.

But push gently at the back of the knee joint and you can SEE the understanding appear on their face as they feel the correct position.

So if your child learns best that way, how would have them be taught?

May I push with the arch of my foot, or do you see that as "kicking them"?

Do I push with my hand? Or do you see that as "inappropriate fondling"?

Do I push with a stick? Or do you see that as beating them with a stick?

Honestly, if light contact is interpreted as violence then maybe they should take up knitting or bubble blowing.

It sounds to me like perhaps the child is overly sensitive and would benefit from coming to terms with varying forms of contact
and which are appropriate and which are inappropriate as determined by the parent rather that to cater to what they feel is right or wrong. Their feelings may be wrong.

At least, that's how I feel ... you may think my feelings are wrong


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## rickster (Jul 27, 2012)

It can't be as worse as thus;

http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/pict...unishment-at-henan-martial-arts-school.html''


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## grumpywolfman (Jul 27, 2012)

zDom said:


> I find with a lot of students that telling them "bend your front knee" for a front stance, for example, *simply doesn't register in their brain*.
> 
> But push gently at the back of the knee joint and you can SEE the understanding appear on their face as they feel the correct position.
> 
> ...



_Honestly_, if your customers are too young to even communicate with, why are you trying to teach them *$* 

*Yeah .. that's right, guys like you irritate me.*


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## ArmorOfGod (Jul 27, 2012)

I think if you are considering putting a four year old in a martial arts class, you are going to have lots of problems (before he quits in less than a year). Wait until he is older: maybe 8 or 10. Martial arts for 4-year-old is a daycare, not a real martial arts class.

AoG


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## grumpywolfman (Jul 27, 2012)

grumpywolfman said:


> _Honestly_, if your customers are too young to even communicate with, why are you trying to teach them$  Yeah .. that's right, guys like you irritate me.



zDom,

It's too late for me to edit that post and delete what I wrote. I would like to apologize for getting angry and judging you. I have always fought my fights as a striker - I'm trying to change that.


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## zDom (Jul 30, 2012)

grumpywolfman said:


> zDom,
> 
> It's too late for me to edit that post and delete what I wrote. I would like to apologize for getting angry and judging you. I have always fought my fights as a striker - I'm trying to change that.




Not a problem.

And remember: there are different forms of communication. For example, there are some parents who find sign language works better for communicating with their toddlers than speech.

But a very specific and common example of this is: if you are working with a 3-year-old, you can say "lift your right arm" and "switch arms" 50 times in a 20 minute session; or you can say simply say "move THIS arm up!" while you touch that arm.

Right / left is a difficult thing for many students ... sometimes even adults.


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## rickster (Jul 30, 2012)

A 4 year old starting in martial arts is looking to be a 8-9 black belt  :-(


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2012)

rickster said:


> A 4 year old starting in martial arts is looking to be a 8-9 black belt :-(



I know! I really worry about little children being in martial arts classes designed for older children and adults.


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## rickster (Jul 30, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I know! I really worry about little children being in martial arts classes designed for older children and adults.



Because it becomes evening daycare


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2012)

This thread is a bit of a nuisance as the OP has also posted it in the TKD section and posting on both is getting a bit surreal. I would also like to hear from OP again, I'd be interested to know what they want out of martial arts for their child and whether they don't consider their child too young at four to be learning something like this.


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## DennisBreene (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm really concerned that 4 yr olds are not neurologically or emotionally developed for something like martial arts.  In addition it takes an instructor who has thorough understanding of the developmental stages of children so that the instructors expectations are not unrealistic.  Having said that; I doubt the use of the stick (possibly a shinai) is intended to be punative in nature. A 4 yr old my not be able to make that distinction. My sensei used the touch of the shinai to physically reinforce a verbal correction. Such as; "straighten the back knee" with a touch to the intended knee.   This reinforcement through multiple neural pathways can be much more effective than simply stating the correction and supplements physical correction where you have actually placed the body part in the correct position so that the student can learn how it is supposed to feel.  The only time the shinai was used with force was with adults during specific drills to build stability (such as striking the abdomen while the student stands in kima jase to see if they will maintain their balance). Even these strikes where quite controlled.
If you or your child is uncomfortable with the tone of the class, I suggest you  look for a teacher who is particularly good with the very young or find a physical activity more suited to your childs developmental level and consider trying TKD in a few years.


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