# knifework and these arts



## antec20 (Jun 19, 2005)

hi there.  i'm new to knifework. i'm looking at Bujinkan, San Miguel Eskrima/Doce Pares and 5 animal kenpo for knifework.

  how do each of these compare for knifework? i've looked at each in person and i can't seem to tell.

 i was told by the sijo of 5 animal kenpo that the knifework is based upon Wing Chun and Fencing. this same teacher is also a black sash in wing chun, has been doing it for 20 years, is a Master of Arms in Fencing.

  i have the three websites for each of the places if that helps.
www.geocities.com/bujinkanmartialartscenter
  capitaldocepares.com
www.haineskenpo.com


----------



## arnisador (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm biased, of course, but I think the FMA and Indonesian martial arts really have great knifework. Wing Chun uses the butterfly knives, which are more like short swords, and fencing is of course swordwork. I'm not familiar with Ninjutsu knifework. The tanto techniques I've seen out of jujutsu styles seem to be heavily based on corresponding sword techniques.


----------



## Knarfan (Jun 19, 2005)

I have to agree with Arnisador , FMA & Indonesian knife arts are excellent !


----------



## Phil Elmore (Jun 19, 2005)

Before I clicked on this thread, "Kali/Escrima/Silat" was what went through my head.  Consider me another "Yeah, what they said."


----------



## Cruentus (Jun 19, 2005)

I would say that FMA would isolate the knife more, where as in wing chun and bujinkan you will be getting a broader spectrum.

I say just go where you can find a good instructor that suits your needs.


----------



## Airyu@hotmail.com (Jun 22, 2005)

Hello antec20,

As I have a background in Budo Taijutsu/Bujinkan, I can assure you that the applications and tactics taught withing the FMA systems will give you a huge advantage over most opponent's. This is not that the methods within the Bujinkan Dojo are not good, it is in the methodology, and pragmatic application that is lacking. Many Budo Instructors have increased their blade knowledge by cross training in various FMA's


Gumagalang

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


----------



## antec20 (Jun 23, 2005)

Airyu@hotmail.com said:
			
		

> Hello antec20,
> 
> As I have a background in Budo Taijutsu/Bujinkan, I can assure you that the applications and tactics taught withing the FMA systems will give you a huge advantage over most opponent's. This is not that the methods within the Bujinkan Dojo are not good, it is in the methodology, and pragmatic application that is lacking. Many Budo Instructors have increased their blade knowledge by cross training in various FMA's
> 
> ...


 Alex, a 5th dan in bujinkan, said that FMA specialize in blade and stick. He mentioned that even tho the bujinkan doesn't that he felt it was just as effective as FMA. www.capitaldocepares.net  teacher told me that they use the blade but it's only a secondary weapon. www.docepares.net teacher told me they have a certain class where they only do knifework. per their website Baraw --- Eskrido [locks, throws, takedowns with olisi]; similar in format to the solo olisi, but the weapon is a knife. so between the two fma schools that i have the latter under Nilo Baron has a specific knife class. unfortunately, i have no Sayoc Kali locally yet. 

 the fma schools are cheaper than most other places in town. the Bujinkan dojo is 99.00 for twice a week. i did have a chance to see the 5 animal kenpo training dvd's and i wasn't impressed with the knife and gun disarms that i saw. i called up my old wing chun sifu and asked him if the butterfly knives skills would easily move over into modern day knives and he said no. i really enjoyed the wing chun that i've done; however, i'm looking for modern day weapons skills. what good is wing chun if it doesn't teach that? 
  let's face it manycriminals if they don't have a gun are gonna have a knife, stick, etc..


----------



## Jerry (Jun 24, 2005)

It depends on what you have availabe near you. I'm personally a huge fan of some of the Silat lines out there, though that's as broad a term as "king fu", and there are many I really have no idea about. 

I suspect FMAs are going to be similar in the amount of variance on knife-focus, so if there are others available, you may want to try them.

Systema has anways been combatively oriented and is more than willing to play with blades. Though what I've seen in their instructional videos I take some issue with because of the risk of failure, I think I've been watching thier "worst case response" stuff.


----------



## Floating Egg (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't think you can really go wrong with any knife art. It may ultimately come down to how you feel about the instructor, prices, and training environment.


----------



## Airyu@hotmail.com (Jun 27, 2005)

Hello again,

Antec20 - You can train in the Bujinkan method for years and not train in the blade. Most FMA's will teach you direct use of the short stick and blade, almost immediately in your training. In over 20 years in Budo, I have not seen the Budo Instruction compare to the level of close quarters blade work that the FMA have or teach. (This is from someone who is still actively practicing and teaching Budo Taijutsu) Train in Budo but also cross over to FMA, and you will see firsthand what I am writing about.

Gumagalang

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


----------



## Drifter (Jun 27, 2005)

Well, the butterfly knives from Wing Chun might not translate easily to modern day tools, but the sticks in the FMA do. Just use some creative thinking.


----------

