# Sinawali patterns?



## Ceicei

What can you tell me about sinawali?  I learned the "three strike sinawali" with double sticks.  How do you coordinate both hands without getting all messed up?

Ceicei


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## Guro_Jeff

Just be patient with yourself. It's a new pattern for you, but in no time, you'll be a star!! It's alot of fun, too. Don't pressure yourself and you'll do fine.

Guro Jeff


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## Ceicei

For at home practice, do you suggest doing the pattern with one hand first and then the other hand, before combining both?  

At the dojo, I started me out with both sticks at the same time, first in the air, then on a wavemaster.  I didn't ask him why he wanted me to try with both sticks together instead of just one.  It is a lot of fun though and definitely will take a lot of practice to get coordinated.

- Ceicei


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## DoxN4cer

This probably sounds enigmatic, but you really have to feel it and let it flow.  Just let it happen rather than thinking about. 

Tim Kashino


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## Guro_Jeff

Hey Ceicei,
I feel that if you want to learn sinawali, the best way to do it, is with both sticks in hand. The coordination will come. As you practice it, try to be aware of how your sticks are positioned on your body as you extend and retract your arms with the strikes, and as you develop consistency in thought and action, it'll get easier. I usually tell students to think in terms of 1,2,3, then, 1,2,3 from the other side. Once you can get a flow going, then, you simply move through the counts... 1,2,3,4,5,6... repeat and so forth. Hope that helps!

Guro Jeff


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## sifu Adams

I have found in training the Sinawali that if I have my student put one stick on the shoulder it trained them a little faster.  when I trained with the late GM Ramy Preses we always told our students place the stick on the shoulder befor you strike with the other.  you have to do one step at a time.  You also have to finish the movement.  Hit with the right hand and put the stick where you wont it to go next then hit with the other stick.  that should help


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## loki09789

Ceicei said:
			
		

> For at home practice, do you suggest doing the pattern with one hand first and then the other hand, before combining both?
> 
> At the dojo, I started me out with both sticks at the same time, first in the air, then on a wavemaster. I didn't ask him why he wanted me to try with both sticks together instead of just one. It is a lot of fun though and definitely will take a lot of practice to get coordinated.
> 
> - Ceicei


If the point is to develop coordination in the hands don't do one hand only because you won't develop the timing/coordination (though you may discover, by breaking it down that way AFTER you have it, that you are simply combining single hand patterns like figure 8, banda y banda...or something else).

Just to it.  You will notice that one side picks up faster than the other.  Concentrate on what you are doing there, then mentally 'flip' the sensation to bring up the other side.

I don't know if you are doing the "Heavens/Hells/Middle or earth" variation of the three count 'double sin' but break it into halves:  Rightside/leftside and literally count out "1,2,3" or "forehand,backhand,forehand" from one side.  Pause because you are now (or should be) in the starting position to do it again from the other side and count or call the sequence outloud...in time it will become more fluid and instinctual.  Learn it like you learn dances, but with your hands now.

Nice idea using a focal point though.  That 'targeting' helps focus your actions.


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## arnisandyz

sifu Adams said:
			
		

> I have found in training the Sinawali that if I have my student put one stick on the shoulder it trained them a little faster.  when I trained with the late GM Ramy Preses we always told our students place the stick on the shoulder befor you strike with the other.  you have to do one step at a time.  You also have to finish the movement.  Hit with the right hand and put the stick where you wont it to go next then hit with the other stick.  that should help



Good point.  I have a couple Karate/TKD guys in my class.  I equate what you metioned to "chambering' a punch in Karate. (Right hand punches left hand comes back). As you begin to pickup speed this will help to keep your hand that is not in use from being hit and ready to go. It will also help in keeping your siniwali tight.  Alot of people tend to hold both hands way out in front of them when they should be scrubbing the body.


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## loki09789

DoxN4cer said:
			
		

> This probably sounds enigmatic, but you really have to feel it and let it flow. Just let it happen rather than thinking about.
> 
> Tim Kashino


YUPPPP!  How many times have we (in our ECC days) started great, but lost the flow the instant we started talking about what we were doing....still can feel the hand strikes from those days.

It sounds crazy, but there have been times when I would watch tv or hum/sing a song as I was doing it to 'get out of my head' for exactly the reason that Doxn4cer mentioned.


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## GAB

Ceicei said:
			
		

> What can you tell me about sinawali? I learned the "three strike sinawali" with double sticks. How do you coordinate both hands without getting all messed up?
> 
> Ceicei


Hi Ceicei,

The double is the way to go, first the right then the left then the right then the left. Moving your feet with the striking is very important also. Go slow and think to yourself 1-2-3 or open closed open, Or closed open closed, or right left right or left right left, get the one down pat and then move on to the next. Alternating, weaving the hands...

Partners are good, but if they make mistakes and then you will, it is a longer process, work on a bag, step away from the bag so you just swish it and go for it at a low methodical pace and it will come to you...or have the partner hold their sticks out from their waist like a triangle and strike easy and methodically.

It is very good for your timing, connecting the movements with your foot work, is very important!!! Upper body and lower body moving at the same time...%-}

Regards, Gary


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## Guro Harold

Going along with Sifu_Adams' and GAB's post, proper chambering is also important making sure your hands are where they are supposed to be.


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## Rich Parsons

Ceicei,


   You can also check out the following Thread whihc has discussions on Sinawali's as well. 

I think this is a good discussion thread though, and a good question. 

I try to move slow and move both hands at the same time. By moving slow this allows you to "Adjust" easier and to learn while you are doing the pattern.

 :asian:


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## Feisty Mouse

When I mess up, it's usually because I did something lazy or weird with chambering, rather than striking.  Make sure you think about where your non-striking hand (as you are striking with the other hand) is going.


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## GAB

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> When I mess up, it's usually because I did something lazy or weird with chambering, rather than striking. Make sure you think about where your non-striking hand (as you are striking with the other hand) is going.


Hi, Yes, feisty has a good observation. The slow quality is also good so when chambering you don't hit your elbows with the stick. OUCH...

Of course I have never done that  but it has been related to me by others 

Regards, Gary


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## Ceicei

Thank you all for these terrific tips!  I'll use them and see how it goes.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei

It is going much, much better. I found that I can "think" better if I went double sticks than trying to do one stick first and adding the second stick. Doing one handed practice worked fine, but with both sticks immediately afterwards became more confusing. I just simply stopped right there in frustration and took a few minutes break, then started over with double sticks and finally did better. All your tips have proven to be very valuable. Thank you!

- Ceicei


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## GAB

Ceicei said:
			
		

> It is going much, much better. I found that I can "think" better if I went double sticks than trying to do one stick first and adding the second stick. Doing one handed practice worked fine, but with both sticks immediately afterwards became more confusing. I just simply stopped right there in frustration and took a few minutes break, then started over with double sticks and finally did better. All your tips have proven to be very valuable. Thank you!
> 
> - Ceicei


Hi Ceicei,

Yes, it will get better, then you will go to 4 strike and get confused then 6 and so on, lots to look forward to...It is a very good work out as long as you move your lower body also as you are striking the bag...The sinawali is just one of many things you will learn but it is one of the most important...

I also was doing what you were doing today. I am trying to practice a couple of differrent systems in different locations. Several hours is not bad but when it is morning and then at night it is tough on the feet...

Barefooten is the way I am and always have done MA. Some suggest going to the shoes and others will not allow a shoe on the mats, so no stinking shoes for me.

Regards, Gary


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## loki09789

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Ceicei,
> 
> Yes, it will get better, then you will go to 4 strike and get confused then 6 and so on, lots to look forward to...It is a very good work out as long as you move your lower body also as you are striking the bag...The sinawali is just one of many things you will learn but it is one of the most important...


Along those same lines remember that the siniwali patterns are not the end but just the beginning.  The idea isn't to just learn the pattern (though I am glad that it is coming around for you) it is to learn the patterns so that you engrain fluidity (see the lower body stuff in Gary's post), constant motion and combination striking into your body/brain.

The pattern is just the spring board, the applications of that pattern and translations from stick to hand to foot to ....is what to keep in your long term focus.


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## GAB

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Along those same lines remember that the siniwali patterns are not the end but just the beginning. The idea isn't to just learn the pattern (though I am glad that it is coming around for you) it is to learn the patterns so that you engrain fluidity (see the lower body stuff in Gary's post), constant motion and combination striking into your body/brain.
> 
> The pattern is just the spring board, the applications of that pattern and translations from stick to hand to foot to ....is what to keep in your long term focus.


Hi Loki,

Yes, you are using a term that means so much in the MA's, Fluidity...
It brings to mind the term my son uses, water capturing rock...
If that makes any sense? It does to me...

Regards, Gary


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## loki09789

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Loki,
> 
> Yes, you are using a term that means so much in the MA's, Fluidity...
> It brings to mind the term my son uses, water capturing rock...
> If that makes any sense? It does to me...
> 
> Regards, Gary


Sure does.  I don't know how much of the envelopment tactics/squad and platoon level you remember from your service days but if you look at the 'employment of fighting elements' in the siniwali pattern and the diagrams that outline a single/double envelopment or a reaction to near/far enemy fire immediate action drill it is conceptually the same thing:

Coordinating fighting elements in a way maximizes supression of the offensive capability of the enemy with 'fluid' manuevering.

Even the ancient Phalanx of Alex the great called their drills and formation transitions 'dances' within their tactical metaphors.


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## Airyu@hotmail.com

Hello Everyone,

Sinawalli is a great drill for coordination, if you only have 1 stick you can insert your free hand into the drill as a punch or eye jab etc. Also include the other "counts" for sinawalli, such as 2,4, 6, 8, 10 etc.

On top of those basic pieces implement lower body aspects such as footwork, reverse the footwork etc. 

Add changing the rhythm(add broken rhythm, fluid rhythm, half beat...)

Add non crossing of the hands

Add non mirroring of the left and right side

Add various twirling/florete motions in between the beats

Sinawalli as with most drills is only a starting point, and is only limited in how you train it by your own imagination.



Train Hard it is the Way!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Emptyglass

loki09789 said:
			
		

> It sounds crazy, but there have been times when I would watch tv or hum/sing a song as I was doing it to 'get out of my head' for exactly the reason that Doxn4cer mentioned.



Try chewing gum when you are practicing your sinawali.

Rich Curren


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## Guro Harold

I like Tuhon Ray Dionaldo's approach to siniwali...

Siniwali is not just a set stick pattern but it can also be how you weave through your opponent and how you weave your opponent around you and your technique!


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## Tgace

At some point it becomes helpful to find a willing tree to actually strike something with your sinawali. Sometimes the "disconnectedness" of just swinging your sticks through the air makes it hard to "see" why you are doing what you are doing....


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## Flatlander

Tgace said:
			
		

> At some point it becomes helpful to find a willing tree to actually strike something with your sinawali. Sometimes the "disconnectedness" of just swinging your sticks through the air makes it hard to "see" why you are doing what you are doing....


I think that this is fundamental to "getting the point" of what's going on.  I have experienced trying to do sinawali in a partner drill, and just being totally lost because something was getting in the way, thus causing me to stop.  So, good point.:asian:


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## loki09789

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> Try chewing gum when you are practicing your sinawali.
> 
> Rich Curren


Come on Rich, I can't do that and you know it .

Seriously, I think it would work well.  I remember trying to think if it as the same mentallity as when you are just batting the ball back and forth in tennis instead of trying to compete.  Just let it happen.


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## Emptyglass

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Come on Rich, I can't do that and you know it .



Paul:

That was more for Ceicei than you.  I was just using your quote as the base for a similar notion.

Rich Curren


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## Ceicei

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> Paul:
> 
> That was more for Ceicei than you.  I was just using your quote as the base for a similar notion.
> 
> Rich Curren


And chewing gum is supposed to help me in coordinating my hands with sinawali??

- Ceicei


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## Rich Parsons

Ceicei said:
			
		

> And chewing gum is supposed to help me in coordinating my hands with sinawali??
> 
> - Ceicei



Chewing gum is just an example of doing multiple things at teh same time.

Hence you have both hands moving, now you add in your foot work, and then you add in chewing gum, or singing, or talking. It is just a way of raining multiple parts of the body at the same time.

It is also considered a private joke amongst friendsm that they are unco-ordinated and cannot walk and chew gum at the same time.

Go slow and work what you can. Going to fast and adding in to much too soon will only confuse, or complicate the learning process, in my opinion and experience.


 :asian:


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## Emptyglass

Ceicei said:
			
		

> And chewing gum is supposed to help me in coordinating my hands with sinawali??
> 
> - Ceicei



Hi Ceicei:

No joke was intended. I know it sounds a bit unlikely, but chewing gum while doing sinawali may help your coordination by giving you a steady, rhythmic internal beat to pace yourself too. Also I've found that many folks are a little overly conscious of where their hands and feet are while starting out with sinawali and chewing sone gum while trying to get the patterns into your muscle memory helps.

Give it a try and see what happens, it probably can't hurt.

Good luck.

Rich Curren


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## Ceicei

Emptyglass said:
			
		

> Hi Ceicei:
> 
> No joke was intended. I know it sounds a bit unlikely, but chewing gum while doing sinawali may help your coordination by giving you a steady, rhythmic internal beat to pace yourself too. Also I've found that many folks are a little overly conscious of where their hands and feet are while starting out with sinawali and chewing sone gum while trying to get the patterns into your muscle memory helps.
> 
> Give it a try and see what happens, it probably can't hurt.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Rich Curren


Rich,
Intriguing thought, thank you. Chewing does have rhythm and should be able to transfer over. It definitely is worth a try...although my instructor might think it's strange (laugh). If it'll help with muscle memory, I won't object. Unorthodox methods have their places.

I'll let you know how it goes.

- Ceicei


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## pakigbisog

Maybe it would help if you focus on your targets: for the first set of alternate strikes (1-2-3) the single target is your opponent's left temple, and for your next set of alternate strikes (4-5-6) the target is your opponent's right temple.

 After working-up a good amount of sweat practicing with your shadow, gradually add some right forward and backward steps, and alternate with left forward and backward steps, simulating a simple Sinulog dance. When you get better at this, then simulate the bobbing and weaving motions in boxing with your head & upper body plus your newly acquired dancing steps. When you do all these in a fluid motion, you body will relax and your mind will begin to seek out where your opponent should be. By this time, you'll begin to realize that Sinawali is one good source of aerobics exercise.

 I find teaching and learning Sinawali as the easiest thing to do. I've tried it with everyone I've met who asked me about arnis or FMA (at the office or anywhere) and so far, they all got it in less than 15 minutes. Right away, they could do contact drills with me until our arms grow tired.

 Sinawali is viewed by some as a bait or as a commercial tool to entice a novice's interest in arnis--novice gets a sense of accomplishment during his/her first session resulting in optimism or confidence of his/her ability to learn and master more skills in the future. It is also used by some arnis school operators to kill time--for reasons such as absence of qualified instructors or just teacher purely ran out of techniques to share.

 Sinawali has its own merits and purpose--it's awesome to see movie stars do sinawali with 2 swords to ward off arrows or bullets! Good for your arms and cardio-exercise. Standard moves and variations look impressive in live exhibitions and would surely make your neighbors curious about what you're doing in your backyard. And that's about it. 

 Sinawali can't get the same effect as the Amarra in teaching the eskrimador the instinct of effective and powerful combination strikes (as in combination kicks done routinely in Tae Kwan Do and less in Karate). Amarra strikes 1-6 (set 1), 7-9 (set 2), 10-4-10 (set 3), 11 (set 4), and 12 (set 5). Yet, the Amarra is much easier to learn than Sinawali.

   Yes, not a lot of eskrimadors know the Amarra--the most basic of them all.


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## lhommedieu

One consideration for double stick techniques:

If you are facing the opponent with one foot forward and one foot back, the _rear _ hip should rotate forward as the _rear _ strike occurs to obtain the maximum power from the strike.  This won't make your double stick technique look as pretty, but turning your hips into the strike (and generating double stick strikes from the legs in general) will change the force of the strike and get you out of the mind-set of merely generating patterns.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Toasty

Hello,

Would it be possible for you to describe these "amarra sets" in more detail (I know that writing is a poor substitute for feeling, but if you could do your best    ).
My particular FMA uses neither sinawalli nor amarra.

Thanks in advance
Rob


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## pakigbisog

Rob,

 Amarra is an in-place kata designed to develop an instict of delivering quick, powerful combination strikes. Imagine a taekwando fighter delivering a roundhouse kick followed by a turning jumping ax kick and punctuates it with a straight punch--all with no hesitation, just automatic.

     These Amarra forms are done with a single stick.

 All forms done with back stance: right foot forward when using your right hand and left foot forward when using your left hand.

 Ready stance is your striking arm raised with elbow shoulder level & stick held 45 degrees back. Your other arm horizontal, parallel and kept close to your body.

     I'll try to describe set # 1 (6 forms).

 Amarra #1: Diagonal strike to your opponent's left temple followed by a diagonal strike to his right temple--swing down freely and use the momentum to bring your arm/stick up to your left shoulder to deliver the next strike--then back to ready stance. 

 Amarra # 2: Two diagonal strikes to your opponent's left temple followed by two diagonal strikes to his right temple--by using a rolling or circular path w/ your stick after your first strike to deliver the 2nd (of the pair)--call this the double roll to the right and to the left--then back to ready stance. (You should see my instructor hit a flying bug with these strikes).

 Amarra # 3: Horizontal flywheel strike to his left temple, horizontal flywheel strike to his right temple, downward rolling strike to his crown, and diagonal strike to his right temple--then back to ready stance.

 Amarra # 4: Diagonal strike to your opponent's left temple followed by a diagonal strike to his right temple (like # 1), horizontal strike (plantsa) to his left body, downward rolling strike to his crown, and diagonal strike to his right temple--then back to ready stance. A very useful amarra for tournaments (WEKAF or WFMAA) when delivered in rapid fire succession--you'd get points all over the place and could knock opponent's stick off his hand (using the downward rolling strike to weapon hand).

 Amarra # 5: Two diagonal strikes to your opponent's left temple (like # 2) followed by horizontal flywheel strike to his left temple, horizontal flywheel strike to his right temple (like # 3), upward strike to his groin, a downward snap to his crown, and diagonal strike to his right temple--then back to ready stance.

 Amarra # 6: Horizontal flywheel strike to his left temple, horizontal flywheel strike to his right temple (like # 3), vertical flywheel to the right, vertical to the left, downward rolling strike to his crown, and diagonal strike to his right temple--then back to ready stance.

 If you are serious about learning the amarra, I suggest you attend the following of which my grandmaster is a guest instructor.

*April 23rd-24th, WFMAA Spring Camp,  Northridge, California*
     Camp Instructors: 
*Punong Guro  Myrlino P. Hufana* (HTAI)
*Guro Jay De Leon* (Modern Arnis &  Inosanto Kali, Murrieta, CA)
*Guro Roger Agbulos* (De Campo JDC-10 &  Lameco Eskrima, North Hills, CA)
     Guest Instructor: *Guro Larry Alcuizar*  (Durex Arnis & Doce Pares Eskrima, Los Angeles, CA)
     Location & host  by *Jon J. Felperin, The Martial Arts Institute*, 9349 Melvin Ave #7,  Northridge, CA 91324 (818) 775-1545
     Saturday (9:00am - 5:00pm), Sunday  (9:00am - 3:00pm)
     Camp Cost *$125.00* 

     Pls. visit http://www.arnisador.com/ for more details and other venues.


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## Toasty

Cool, I get it now...

Thanks for the info (good descriptions by the way).

see ya
Rob


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