# Bogus rank (MA cert. Part 2)



## IcemanSK (Nov 12, 2005)

I received my 1st Dan in 1985 thu Kukiwon. I changed schools & received my 2nd Dan in 1988 (ITF). I didn't find out until years later that the guy I got my ITF rank thru was not at all afilliated the ITF & that he had our certificates made himself. (I found out when I approached a 9th Dan about testing for 3rd Dan. He told me my 2nd Dan wasn't legit & pulled a real ITF certificate out of his drawer.) I felt like such a fool. That was 11 years ago. I've trained in competitive kickboxing & boxing in the mean time.

So now I'm trying to get legitimate Kukiwon rank. I'm talking to another high ranking Kukiwon GM about it. I've told him that I want to certify thru Kukiwon. I'm sure there are hoops I've have to jump thru & I'm willing to work hard for any rank I get, but we've yet to talk about what the specifics might be.

Miles:

Thanks for your encouragement & help to understand how this all works. Funny thing about you saying (earlier post) that you have your rank certs. in a suitcase in the basement. My rank certs. I display in my house. But my master degree from Northwestern Univ. is tucked away in a box. I guess it all goes by what's important to us.


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## terryl965 (Nov 12, 2005)

IcemanSK, all you have to do is find a 4th dan Kukkiwon and go test for your second again with there qualification and withen 6 to 8 weeks you'll have your second.
The thing I do understand is your second from ITF was not Kukkiwon and would not be acceptive by them for cross certification, two different organization, It does not accept kukkiwon for the 1st in the first place, you should have re-tested for first with that organization. You being Kukkiwon should have known about the other organization not cross certifrying.

If you need help with certification let me know where you are from and maybe I'll know some one that can help you in your stituation.
Terry


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## Miles (Nov 12, 2005)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> Miles:
> 
> Thanks for your encouragement & help to understand how this all works. Funny thing about you saying (earlier post) that you have your rank certs. in a suitcase in the basement. My rank certs. I display in my house. But my master degree from Northwestern Univ. is tucked away in a box. I guess it all goes by what's important to us.



Like Terry, I'd be happy to help you in any way I can. I am sorry to hear that you got a counterfeit certificate.  My recollection is that the second ITF tenet is "integrity."  Must have been lost on the instructor but hopefully the training was fine.

My TKD certs are in the basement, but my J.D. is posted in my office. I'd probably have better client control if I reversed the certs.... 

Miles


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## IcemanSK (Nov 13, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> IcemanSK, all you have to do is find a 4th dan Kukkiwon and go test for your second again with there qualification and withen 6 to 8 weeks you'll have your second.
> The thing I do understand is your second from ITF was not Kukkiwon and would not be acceptive by them for cross certification, two different organization, It does not accept kukkiwon for the 1st in the first place, you should have re-tested for first with that organization. You being Kukkiwon should have known about the other organization not cross certifrying.
> 
> If you need help with certification let me know where you are from and maybe I'll know some one that can help you in your stituation.
> Terry


 
Terry:

I've spoken with a ITF 7th Dan who got the fallout of our students when this was all discovered about what the ITF says. He said he'd accept my rank (2nd Dan) as it was. The I trained with had zero affiliation with the ITF, but my techniques are still solid. As far as what I SHOULD  know "being Kukiwon," that assumes that I was ever told about the details of cross certifying. I was not. And because my 2nd Dan guy was doin' his own thing, it wasn't an issue.


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## terryl965 (Nov 13, 2005)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> Terry:
> 
> I've spoken with a ITF 7th Dan who got the fallout of our students when this was all discovered about what the ITF says. He said he'd accept my rank (2nd Dan) as it was. The I trained with had zero affiliation with the ITF, but my techniques are still solid. As far as what I SHOULD know "being Kukiwon," that assumes that I was ever told about the details of cross certifying. I was not. And because my 2nd Dan guy was doin' his own thing, it wasn't an issue.


 
IcemanSK I"m not trying to be inpolite I'm just so tired of Master and people with a little power using it the wrong way, like I said if I can help let me know and I'll try to help you.
Terry
P.S. I believe said he would help if he could also.


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## IcemanSK (Nov 13, 2005)

Terry:

I'm sorry for being short w/ you there. I'm trying to figure out how to do this as painlesly as possible. I know both you & Miles are trying to help. Thank you, I appreciate it a great deal. 

I like the theory you had about finding a  WTF 4th Dan & have him re-test me for 2nd. The issue I have come across is McDojangs & people wanting to take advantage of me because of my situation. The WTF folks I'm speaking with now I'm....cautiously optimistic about their willingness to help me.  Another part of it for me is that I trained in under the WTF in the era before Olympic-style TKD. I'm much more comfortable w/ "Old school" TKD than the current style. That's why I sought out an both a traditional Chung Do Kwan master & the ITF. When there weren't any ITF folks anywhere near me, I knew the WTF was the direction I needed to go.

Like I said, I appreciate the help that you & Miles have offered. The answers to my questions (present & future as it unfolds) is worth a lot to me. If I were looking for a Microsoft cert. or CPR cert. it would be a more straightforward arrangement. But because there is a great deal of $$ to be made, advantage is often taken.


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## terryl965 (Nov 13, 2005)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> Terry:
> 
> I'm sorry for being short w/ you there. I'm trying to figure out how to do this as painlesly as possible. I know both you & Miles are trying to help. Thank you, I appreciate it a great deal.
> 
> ...


 
PM Me I'm Kukkiwon 4th dan right now and no Mc Dojo Lokk at year in on me I'm old school, Just to let you know Kukkiwon certification for second is only $90.00 and the testing fee by the instructor.
Private message me if you would like help.
terry


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## terryl965 (Nov 13, 2005)

When and if I can help let me know, until then good luck with your endevours on certification.
Terry


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## IcemanSK (Nov 13, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> When and if I can help let me know, until then good luck with your endevours on certification.
> Terry


 
Thank you, sir. I will let you know.:asian:


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