# HOW did you start and/or run your school?



## Ceicei

These are questions aimed at head instructors and/or owners of martial arts schools.

Main Question:  
*How did you get started setting up/running your martial arts school?  *

Possible ways of setting up:
Did your instructor pass on his school to you?  Did you start teaching individually out of your garage/backyard first before expanding into a school?  Did you seek for a loan or a grant to rent/buy a place?  Did you start teaching at a community place first and then with enough students, move to a bigger place?  Did someone decide to subsidize you (venture investment) into starting a school?  Did you buy out a competitor's school and set up your own?  Were you hired by the school to teach there and climbed the hierarchy to become the head instructor?

Second Main Question:
*When you started up your school, how did you figure out whether you had enough capital to run the school?  *

Possible funding sources:
Your instructor already ran an existing school with its established income/expenses before you took it over.  You saved up several months worth of money before starting your business.  You took out a loan equal to the value of the place plus some extra for operating expenses.  You wrote several grants and able to obtain sufficent money to establish a school.  You talked to several well-financed friends about your goals and they were willing to invest in you and your prospective school.  You started out very small with almost nothing, and along the way with students and saving up each time, earned enough money and a stronger student base to begin.  You took out a business loan that would have been enough to run a school for three years on a shoe-string budget.  You inherited a large sum from a relative.  You won the lottery/sweepstakes.  Insurance settlement gave you enough to begin a school. 

*Basically, I would like to know HOW did you start your school?  What worked for you and what didn't?
*
The purpose of this thread is for those who may consider establishing a martial arts school and to be aware of the diversity of how schools start by sharing your real life experiences and advice.

Thank you,

- Ceicei


----------



## fnorfurfoot

When I opened my first school, I basically started from scratch.  I didn't want my instructor to have any say in what I did or didn't do so I made sure not to involve him.  At the time we had a good relationship.  I wanted the school to be mine and I didn't want to have to answer to anyone else.  

I ran an open house a week before I was going to open.  I didn't get much of a turn out.  For my first class, I had three students.  All children.  If I could go back, I would have advertised a lot more than I did.  The first few months were very slow.  I think after a year went by I had about twenty five students.  That made paying the bills tough.  What made things worse was that I was bad at managing money.  I've learned from my mistakes.  After five years, I closed the school.  It was all my fault basically because of the money thing.

To answer your second question, my dad loaned me five thousand dollars when I told him I wanted to open my own school.  The rent was really low when I first started so the money lasted for a while.  I used it for rent and utilities, advertising, and equiptment.  

Now that I am teaching out of a Y, I think that this should have been the route I took back then.  Now I have over 100 students.  I'm seriously thinking about trying my own place again.  I just need to figure out how many of the students I have now would follow me.  Even if I opened my own place, I would keep the Y gig to help draw serious students in to my school.


----------



## terryl965

I aske My GM if it would be Ok if I could open my school and with his blessing I did Know I run it my way and he is happy to give me advise anytime I need it.


----------



## Ceicei

Thank you for your reply.



fnorfurfoot said:


> When I opened my first school, I basically started from scratch.  I didn't want my instructor to have any say in what I did or didn't do so I made sure not to involve him.  At the time we had a good relationship.  I wanted the school to be mine and I didn't want to have to answer to anyone else.



Interesting.  Did you make your own curriculum and business plan, or did you rely upon the experiences you had under your instructor with how you ran your school?



fnorfurfoot said:


> I ran an open house a week before I was going to open.  I didn't get much of a turn out.  For my first class, I had three students.  All children.  If I could go back, I would have advertised a lot more than I did.  The first few months were very slow.  I think after a year went by I had about twenty five students.  That made paying the bills tough.  What made things worse was that I was bad at managing money.  I've learned from my mistakes.  After five years, I closed the school.  It was all my fault basically because of the money thing.



That is a tough lesson to learn.  Would you have recommended some business courses, or perhaps took on a partner with business sense?



fnorfurfoot said:


> To answer your second question, my dad loaned me five thousand dollars when I told him I wanted to open my own school.  The rent was really low when I first started so the money lasted for a while.  I used it for rent and utilities, advertising, and equiptment.


  $5k wouldn't have lasted very long nowadays.  You must have found a very cheap place.  Did location play a part in the rent?  Would you have picked a better place if the rent was not an issue?



fnorfurfoot said:


> Now that I am teaching out of a Y, I think that this should have been the route I took back then.  Now I have over 100 students.  I'm seriously thinking about trying my own place again.  I just need to figure out how many of the students I have now would follow me.  Even if I opened my own place, I would keep the Y gig to help draw serious students in to my school.



I understand that teaching out of a Y (or any other community-based centers) can sometimes be a problem.  Classes are usually set up in blocks of time.  I've heard it said that it is hard to make a more permanent "dojo feel" when the environment tends to be transitory.  What do you do to instill in your student a sense of martial arts training attitude?  Do you rely on certain routines?  

Thank you for your response.

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei

terryl965 said:


> I aske My GM if it would be Ok if I could open my school and with his blessing I did Know I run it my way and he is happy to give me advise anytime I need it.



So how did you set your school up?  Did your GM advance you money, or he had an available place you could use?  What challenges did you face in starting?

- Ceicei


----------



## fnorfurfoot

Ceicei said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Did you make your own curriculum and business plan, or did you rely upon the experiences you had under your instructor with how you ran your school?


 
I basically ran the classes the way my instructor ran the classes. I spent about a year teaching his Saturday classes before going on my own.


Ceicei said:


> That is a tough lesson to learn. Would you have recommended some business courses, or perhaps took on a partner with business sense?


Absolutely. Later on, I did pick up a partner who was great with the books, but then he left after about a year to open his own real estate buisness. 


Ceicei said:


> $5k wouldn't have lasted very long nowadays. You must have found a very cheap place. Did location play a part in the rent? Would you have picked a better place if the rent was not an issue?


$330 a month was my starting rent. It was cheap enough but the location was pretty lousy.


Ceicei said:


> I understand that teaching out of a Y (or any other community-based centers) can sometimes be a problem. Classes are usually set up in blocks of time. I've heard it said that it is hard to make a more permanent "dojo feel" when the environment tends to be transitory. What do you do to instill in your student a sense of martial arts training attitude? Do you rely on certain routines?


The only time slots that I have at the Y are Thursday nights and Saturday afternoons. I run privates whenever I can fit them in and I run weapon clinics every other month. I try to offer extras beyond what the Y give me so that the students who are really interested are always exposed to something new. Last summer, I offered my own summer camp at a local campground. The owner's grandson is a student of mine. I'm planning of doing that again this year. Basically, I try and do as much as I can to give the students a "dojo" feel to my classes. It is being rumored that the Y will be expanding in the next year and adding another aerobic room. If that is true, then I will be able to expand my schedule. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## terryl965

Ceicei said:


> So how did you set your school up? Did your GM advance you money, or he had an available place you could use? What challenges did you face in starting?
> 
> - Ceicei


 
No the money came from my own pocket I look to friends that had poperties and was willin g to deal with me for cheaper rent and withen a month I was up and running, over the next five years we have grown in the size of school while keeping the cost down by having friend helpout with my vision of the perfect school one day it will be there.


----------



## Kacey

Ceicei said:


> These are questions aimed at head instructors and/or owners of martial arts schools.
> 
> Main Question:
> *How did you get started setting up/running your martial arts school?  *
> 
> Possible ways of setting up:
> Did your instructor pass on his school to you?  Did you start teaching individually out of your garage/backyard first before expanding into a school?  Did you seek for a loan or a grant to rent/buy a place?  Did you start teaching at a community place first and then with enough students, move to a bigger place?  Did someone decide to subsidize you (venture investment) into starting a school?  Did you buy out a competitor's school and set up your own?  Were you hired by the school to teach there and climbed the hierarchy to become the head instructor?



I started by assisting at my instructor's class, which was at the downtown Denver YMCA; when the class grew enough to need an additional day paced to the kids who had joined, I taught that on Saturday mornings (the regular adult class was on Mon/Wed evenings, and paced a little fast and heavy for kids under 14 or so).  I then started assisting a different instructor who taught in a health club; he watched me teach the first night, and I never saw him again except at testings.  That lasted until the kids in my class consistently outdid the kids in his class at testings and tournaments, at which time he was "forced" to move the class to another night by the health club, and I had to quit.  About that time, we had to move out of the YMCA, and the kids' class became separated from the adults' class, and I moved it to a different facility - at that point, I was then the "head instructor", and have been ever since.



Ceicei said:


> Second Main Question:
> *When you started up your school, how did you figure out whether you had enough capital to run the school?  *
> 
> Possible funding sources:
> Your instructor already ran an existing school with its established income/expenses before you took it over.  You saved up several months worth of money before starting your business.  You took out a loan equal to the value of the place plus some extra for operating expenses.  You wrote several grants and able to obtain sufficent money to establish a school.  You talked to several well-financed friends about your goals and they were willing to invest in you and your prospective school.  You started out very small with almost nothing, and along the way with students and saving up each time, earned enough money and a stronger student base to begin.  You took out a business loan that would have been enough to run a school for three years on a shoe-string budget.  You inherited a large sum from a relative.  You won the lottery/sweepstakes.  Insurance settlement gave you enough to begin a school.



I have almost always taught out of a recreation center or health club.  The one time I didn't, I sub-let space in a dance studio.  I much prefer the Y - they set the rates, they collect the money, they provide scholarships, and, after 8 years at the same location, they are very accommodating - especially because I've always accommodated them.  The dance studio was an imperfect location at best - the assistant ballet instructor felt that the 3 hours/week (1-1/2 hours each on Wednesday evening and Sunday morning) was a horrible misuse of time that could better be used for more ballet classes - never mind that many of my students at the time were siblings of dancers, some of whose parents chose that ballet school because their child(ren) who wanted a class other than ballet could take TKD at the same location... after the head instructor sold the assistant the school and moved out of state, the assistant, now head, booted me... I heard through the grapevine she lost a significant number of students, almost all of them siblings of my students.  Because I teach at a Y, my start-up costs were neglible; the only one worth mentioning was insurance - the Y I'm at treats nearly all of their instructors as independent contractors, so we have to carry our own insurance, but after the first year, the tax deduction made up for a good part of it.  Remember, however, that this is a sideline for me - I make my primary income teaching school - and any year I break even is okay with me.[/quote]



Ceicei said:


> I understand that teaching out of a Y (or any other community-based centers) can sometimes be a problem.  Classes are usually set up in blocks of time.  I've heard it said that it is hard to make a more permanent "dojo feel" when the environment tends to be transitory.  What do you do to instill in your student a sense of martial arts training attitude?  Do you rely on certain routines?



It can be - but for me, the pros outweigh the cons... I haven't had much trouble with the atmosphere; we have storage for our equipment, a US flag, work out in a room with mirrors on one wall, and my expenses are low - class equipment like a wavemaster, focus pads, and boards are sporadic; the only regular expense is insurance, which currently runs me about $450 a year.  Routines help, and it's one reason I encourage students to buy uniforms - it helps with the mindset, given that the room is pretty bare.  I haven't had any real problem with my students having a MA training attitude.


----------



## Ceicei

terryl965 said:


> No the money came from my own pocket I look to friends that had poperties and was willin g to deal with me for cheaper rent and withen a month I was up and running, over the next five years we have grown in the size of school while keeping the cost down by having friend helpout with my vision of the perfect school one day it will be there.



So how did you figure you had enough to start?  Did you save up enough to last for a few months and then hope that the income generated from your student base would continue to cover the ongoing expenses?  

How were you able to let your friends know what kind of properties you were looking and your price range?   What were some of your thoughts and concerns during those early days prior to the start?  When you said your friend help out, do you mean your friend helped financially at first?  I

I understand that the first three to five years are usually the hardest and if a school can be established by then to either break-even or have a net profit, then it is considered successful?  Would you say that assessment is correct or a myth?  Statistically, how is the success rate?

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei

Kacey said:


> About that time, we had to move out of the YMCA, and the kids' class became separated from the adults' class, and I moved it to a different facility - at that point, I was then the "head instructor", and have been ever since.



Would you have handled this differently, or did you think that was the best thing that happened to force the change?



			
				Kacey said:
			
		

> It can be - but for me, the pros outweigh the cons... I haven't had much trouble with the atmosphere; we have storage for our equipment, a US flag, work out in a room with mirrors on one wall, and my expenses are low - class equipment like a wavemaster, focus pads, and boards are sporadic; the only regular expense is insurance, which currently runs me about $450 a year.  Routines help, and it's one reason I encourage students to buy uniforms - it helps with the mindset, given that the room is pretty bare.  I haven't had any real problem with my students having a MA training attitude.



So if you are given a choice now teaching out of the Y vs. an available independent place with all necessary equipment plus operating expenses, which would you take and why?  Do you hope to have your own place in the future, or are you content where you are?

- Ceicei


----------



## Kacey

Ceicei said:


> Would you have handled this differently, or did you think that was the best thing that happened to force the change?



I had been moving toward it for some time, and had discussed it with my instructor.  He went over his expectations for instructors thoroughly, made sure I understood the responsibility I was taking on (it's harder to get a sub for a TKD class when you're sick than for school, and you can't just not show up), and then gave me his full support.  It would have happened at some point regardless; this just determined the timing.



Ceicei said:


> So if you are given a choice now teaching out of the Y vs. an available independent place with all necessary equipment plus operating expenses, which would you take and why?  Do you hope to have your own place in the future, or are you content where you are?
> 
> - Ceicei



Given that I teach TKD part time, and have no plans to increase that, I don't know that I would move into an independent shop; with a full-time job I wouldn't be able to keep it open that much, the upkeep is pretty minimal where I am, and I am reasonably content with things the way they are - whenever my students (many, but not all of whom, are members of the Y) want a place to practice during non-class times, they can usually find one (even if the racquetball players complain on those rare occasions when we end up in a court) - it's not a problem, really.  If I wanted to teach TKD full-time, it would be a different story, but like other activities I enjoy, if I _had_ to do it for the money, I don't know that it would be nearly as enjoyable as it is now.


----------



## Ceicei

Kacey said:


> Given that I teach TKD part time, and have no plans to increase that, I don't know that I would move into an independent shop; with a full-time job I wouldn't be able to keep it open that much, the upkeep is pretty minimal where I am, and I am reasonably content with things the way they are
> 
> <snip for brevity>
> 
> - it's not a problem, really.  If I wanted to teach TKD full-time, it would be a different story, but like other activities I enjoy, if I _had_ to do it for the money, I don't know that it would be nearly as enjoyable as it is now.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences--very valuable input.  I can see now how the way you do this works out very well for you.  Basically, you want to teach, but without the hassle of much overhead costs, operating expenses, and time which could possibly take you away from your teaching opportunities.  That is a viable option teaching out of existing community-based centers/facilities.  Thank you.

- Ceicei


----------



## Dusty

*How did you get started setting up/running your martial arts school? *
Excellent questions CeiCei. i run a full time center in burlington, ont, about 45 minutes west of toronto. i have been running my school now for 7 years and have a base of around 380. lots of hard work to get there, but well worth it now. we have 120 kids in our after school program, and roughly 260 at night and weekend classes. i am in a commercial strip mall, roughly 6000 square feet. i started as a teen assisting classes with my instructor, then went to work for another school as the head instructor, left that one after 4 years due to differences with the owner and opened my own. one of the parents at the previous school convinced me to open my own and she came in as my partner. she did the financial end, i did the teaching, curricul devekppment and sales. we both came in with $10,000 as a start up. i taught full time and worked full time for the first 2.5 years, quit my job and it has been smooth sailing ever since. if you can call working 18 hours a day, 7 days a week smooth sailing!!!
*When you started up your school, how did you figure out whether you had enough capital to run the school? *
we had $20,000 banked, plus a $20,000 operating line of credit from the bank, plus we had around 50 students our fist day open due to them coming over from the school i used to teach at.
the website for my school is:
www.burlingtonkarate.ca
if you have anymore questions, ask away.
Dusty


----------



## MBuzzy

So are any of you associated with a larger organization (Such as WTF, ITF, etc)?  If so, do they help to offset any costs or offer specialized insurance, etc?


----------



## kosho

I  Had a buddy go threw a really bad divorce.  I offered to teach him shaolin kempo to help him out he was getting larger  and slowly slipping away into depresstion. I started with him in my basement. 
after about 6 months he was at work. 24 hr lock down place for 12 - 22 yr old boys.  and was attacked. controlled the issue and 3 other staff member saw it. Next thing i knew I had 12 students. 
So i looked for a place out side of the house. found a great conner lot that was vacaent for 5 years. talked to the owner  and worked out a price. the school grew to 70 students the first year. 

I charged $ 50.00 for people under  15 years of age. and $ 60.00 for people 16 and up.  I gave a 25% discount for family members.
and I offered a 50% discout to your next months payment if you got 1 person to join for that month.   i offer a cash back prize every 6 months for the people who pay on time. all get a ticket and place it in a box at the end i have the youngest student draw. and that person gets a cash prize. works well. 

I offer private class at a cheap price. $30.00 per hour 1 on 1  and also get a uke to come in for that student to work on.  That has been going really well. 

make sure you give your prices over the phone. I do  and the others schools in the area do not. I hide nothing  and tell the truth. I make sure all students get talked to each class and that i am there 90% of the time. 
I inform all the parents that we are not a belt factory  and training here is hard.  I  talk to each kid  every class when we streach out  and see how school is going and what not. parents really like it. I have summer outings  and we do a pot luck.  I have holloween partys  and christmas partys. 
all pot luck.  and charge only $5.00 per family just to help with the cost of renting the hall. and i make sure all kids get the same gift that are under 14 years of age. 

I do news adds every 3 months  and radio 1 a year. take part in local things  Schools/ parades and what not. I pass out flyers to the schools  and I have other instructors come into my school so my students see what others are doing  and what not. I have never lost a student because of this. even thought the instructors have tried to take some. 
I offer seminars and bring people in from others states.

I  call my students at times just to talk to them to see how things are  and what not. i make sure i know there kids names  and pets. 

Make sure the 80% of all intake gows back to the Dojo. for the first 3 years.   things are going well still and i follow this, you will lose studnets  and just not take it personally people come and go, 9 out of 10 its not you. its them...

ask your students to tell others about the Dojo word of mouth is huge...

get a web page.  and post photos  and all info about your dojo.
pass out bussness cards  and drop them off to others local places. 
Good luck,
 kosho


----------



## SifuPhil

> *How did you get started setting up/running your martial arts school?  *


*

*I started my first studio at age 18 in NYC's Greenwich Village. I was already with my instructor for 6 years, was starting college in the Village and was lucky enough to "inherit" a loft apartment right in the Village, which I had just started living in. When I began to pick up some private students, the size of the loft allowed me to both live and teach there. Later there were small (6-8) group classes - again, the space was not a problem. 

As for financials - again I was blessed that the payment on the loft was taken care of. All I paid were utilities and improvements, of which the latter I was starting to make many. In fact, one early mistake I made was to make too many improvements too quickly. Structural and safety work is one thing, but what I was doing - cosmetics and "trick" items - wasn't really called for.

Meh, what did I know? I was 18.

Concurrently with the loft, I was teaching at a few local hospitals and community centers. I worked at slowly getting these classes into the loft, because my thinking was that I had more control over the environment there. Distractions in the other locations had been increasing and I was losing students because of it. That's one reason I've never really enjoyed working at Y's - too noisy. Of course, that's for taijiquan and qigong - other styles might not be so affected.


*



			When you started up your school, how did you figure out whether you had enough capital to run the school?
		
Click to expand...

*As I mentioned in the first part, I was already lucky enough to be living in the space, so no large expenses were created by teaching there. 

And I'm sorry but I just got a call to take care of some business, so I'll be back later if you want to hear about the other schools I've had.

*
*


----------



## Ceicei

Thank you very for sharing your experience.  I do not have any questions with your comments as you were very clear and concise.

- Ceicei



Dusty said:


> *How did you get started setting up/running your martial arts school? *
> Excellent questions CeiCei. i run a full time center in burlington, ont, about 45 minutes west of toronto. i have been running my school now for 7 years and have a base of around 380. lots of hard work to get there, but well worth it now. we have 120 kids in our after school program, and roughly 260 at night and weekend classes. i am in a commercial strip mall, roughly 6000 square feet. i started as a teen assisting classes with my instructor, then went to work for another school as the head instructor, left that one after 4 years due to differences with the owner and opened my own. one of the parents at the previous school convinced me to open my own and she came in as my partner. she did the financial end, i did the teaching, curricul devekppment and sales. we both came in with $10,000 as a start up. i taught full time and worked full time for the first 2.5 years, quit my job and it has been smooth sailing ever since. if you can call working 18 hours a day, 7 days a week smooth sailing!!!
> *When you started up your school, how did you figure out whether you had enough capital to run the school? *
> we had $20,000 banked, plus a $20,000 operating line of credit from the bank, plus we had around 50 students our fist day open due to them coming over from the school i used to teach at.
> the website for my school is:
> www.burlingtonkarate.ca
> if you have anymore questions, ask away.
> Dusty


----------



## Ceicei

MBuzzy said:


> So are any of you associated with a larger organization (Such as WTF, ITF, etc)?  If so, do they help to offset any costs or offer specialized insurance, etc?



That is an idea.  I am not sure if WTF/ITF do formally help out TKD schools that way.  Maybe the TKD instructors/owners can clarify this.

I am aware [from advertisements in specialized magazines] that some organizations (such as those affliated with Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, for example) are willing to loan money out to others to help them establish new Jujitsu schools.

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei

kosho said:


> So i looked for a place out side of the house. found a great conner lot that was vacaent for 5 years. talked to the owner  and worked out a price. the school grew to 70 students the first year.



When you looked for a place outside of the house, how did you determine whether you had enough capitol to start (with saved up money, grants, or loan), or did you just wing it and hope you have sufficient each month to pay the rent?



			
				kosho said:
			
		

> I charged $ 50.00 for people under  15 years of age. and $ 60.00 for people 16 and up.  I gave a 25% discount for family members.
> and I offered a 50% discout to your next months payment if you got 1 person to join for that month.   i offer a cash back prize every 6 months for the people who pay on time. all get a ticket and place it in a box at the end i have the youngest student draw. and that person gets a cash prize. works well.
> 
> I offer private class at a cheap price. $30.00 per hour 1 on 1  and also get a uke to come in for that student to work on.  That has been going really well.
> 
> make sure you give your prices over the phone. I do  and the others schools in the area do not. I hide nothing  and tell the truth.


Fair prices for what you offer and sounds reasonable.  In some places, this may be considered rather cheap.  How did you determine your fair price that worked for you?   Did you check out the market around you before you decided or was it a trial and error?  I like the way you make known your prices up front.  Too many places will give the "sales spin" first before they divulge their price range.



			
				kosho said:
			
		

> I make sure all students get talked to each class and that i am there 90% of the time.
> I inform all the parents that we are not a belt factory  and training here is hard.  I  talk to each kid  every class when we streach out  and see how school is going and what not. parents really like it. I have summer outings  and we do a pot luck.  I have holloween partys  and christmas partys.
> all pot luck.  and charge only $5.00 per family just to help with the cost of renting the hall. and i make sure all kids get the same gift that are under 14 years of age.
> 
> I call my students at times just to talk to them to see how things are and what not. i make sure i know there kids names and pets.


 A great way of handling your PR.  I am sure this plays a great part in your success to retain your students as loyalty is built up this way.



			
				kosho said:
			
		

> I do news adds every 3 months  and radio 1 a year. take part in local things  Schools/ parades and what not. I pass out flyers to the schools  and I have other instructors come into my school so my students see what others are doing  and what not. I have never lost a student because of this. even thought the instructors have tried to take some.
> I offer seminars and bring people in from others states.
> 
> Make sure the 80% of all intake gows back to the Dojo. for the first 3 years.   things are going well still and i follow this, you will lose studnets  and just not take it personally people come and go, 9 out of 10 its not you. its them...
> 
> ask your students to tell others about the Dojo word of mouth is huge...
> 
> get a web page.  and post photos  and all info about your dojo.
> pass out bussness cards  and drop them off to others local places.
> Good luck,
> kosho



Looks like you set up a great business plan!  How did you come up with that plan, or was it a carryover from your days learning as a student under your instructor?

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei

SifuPhil said:


> [/b]I started my first studio at age 18 in NYC's Greenwich Village. I was already with my instructor for 6 years, was starting college in the Village and was lucky enough to "inherit" a loft apartment right in the Village, which I had just started living in. When I began to pick up some private students, the size of the loft allowed me to both live and teach there. Later there were small (6-8) group classes - again, the space was not a problem.



Almost like the old style way of doing this: eat, live, and train there.  I assume that your students do not live with you though.  Did you inherit your place through family or through your instructor?



			
				SifuPhil said:
			
		

> As for financials - again I was blessed that the payment on the loft was taken care of. All I paid were utilities and improvements, of which the latter I was starting to make many. In fact, one early mistake I made was to make too many improvements too quickly. Structural and safety work is one thing, but what I was doing - cosmetics and "trick" items - wasn't really called for.
> 
> Meh, what did I know? I was 18.


How did adding on to your facility hurt your school?  Was it "over-extending your budget" that made this a mistake, or was it just that things and decor  changed the training environment too much?



			
				SifuPhil said:
			
		

> Concurrently with the loft, I was teaching at a few local hospitals and community centers. I worked at slowly getting these classes into the loft, because my thinking was that I had more control over the environment there. Distractions in the other locations had been increasing and I was losing students because of it. That's one reason I've never really enjoyed working at Y's - too noisy. Of course, that's for taijiquan and qigong - other styles might not be so affected.


  I understand what you mean.  I've worked out in quiet places and busy places before, so all of this does make a difference and is worth considering.


			
				SifuPhil said:
			
		

> As I mentioned in the first part, I was already lucky enough to be living in the space, so no large expenses were created by teaching there.
> 
> And I'm sorry but I just got a call to take care of some business, so I'll be back later if you want to hear about the other schools I've had.


Thank you so much for sharing.  I'm interested to hear about the other schools you've had and your observations!  

- Ceicei


----------



## Ceicei

fnorfurfoot said:


> I basically ran the classes the way my instructor ran the classes. I spent about a year teaching his Saturday classes before going on my own.
> 
> Absolutely. Later on, I did pick up a partner who was great with the books, but then he left after about a year to open his own real estate buisness.


Were you able to pick up another partner after he left?



			
				fnorfurfoot said:
			
		

> $330 a month was my starting rent. It was cheap enough but the location was pretty lousy.


If you had to do this over, what would you have done differently?



			
				fnorfurtoot said:
			
		

> The only time slots that I have at the Y are Thursday nights and Saturday afternoons. I run privates whenever I can fit them in and I run weapon clinics every other month. I try to offer extras beyond what the Y give me so that the students who are really interested are always exposed to something new. Last summer, I offered my own summer camp at a local campground. The owner's grandson is a student of mine. I'm planning of doing that again this year. Basically, I try and do as much as I can to give the students a "dojo" feel to my classes. It is being rumored that the Y will be expanding in the next year and adding another aerobic room. If that is true, then I will be able to expand my schedule. We'll see how that goes.



Sounds like you did really great with what you have available to you.  Does the Y charge you extra for running privates and clinics, or is that a benefit, a perk, because you already teach there?

I'm glad that you are offering a variety.  This should allow a way to combat teaching burn-out.  Do you ever experience burn out, or are you enjoying it so much that burn out is a non-issue at this point?

Thank you for your feedback!

- Ceicei


----------



## SifuPhil

Ceicei said:


> I assume that your students do not live with you though.  Did you inherit your place through family or through your instructor?


No, I think if they lived with me we'd all be at each others throats!

I inherited the loft through my instructor - he was sort of a father-figure to me when I started training with him (right after my father passed) and I guess he wanted to give me a step up.



> How did adding on to your facility hurt your school?  Was it "over-extending your budget" that made this a mistake, or was it just that things and decor  changed the training environment too much?


Silly things like an indoor pond / mini-waterfall; an elaborate Taoist altar; all the latest bells and whistles in gear and weapons; created a lending library for my students, which of course justified getting 300 or so extra books on top of the 600 I already had. :idunno:

It wasn't a drain on the training environment so much as a foolish move business-wise. I will say that it was probably the best equipped studio in NYC. Where else could you finish your workout and have a hot-tub soak or a tanning session??? That served to bring in the merely curious, whom I could then usually convert to addicted players. :>)

I _should_ have put that money into an account for lean times. Instead I had to hustle private lessons and do tutoring at school when the crunch came. 

But I've never been a great business person - only a mediocre taijiquan teacher.


----------



## Ceicei

SifuPhil said:


> No, I think if they lived with me we'd all be at each others throats!
> 
> I inherited the loft through my instructor - he was sort of a father-figure to me when I started training with him (right after my father passed) and I guess he wanted to give me a step up.


It is really neat that he felt he trained you well enough to trust you with the place.


			
				SifuPhil said:
			
		

> Silly things like an indoor pond / mini-waterfall; an elaborate Taoist altar; all the latest bells and whistles in gear and weapons; created a lending library for my students, which of course justified getting 300 or so extra books on top of the 600 I already had. :idunno:
> 
> It wasn't a drain on the training environment so much as a foolish move business-wise. I will say that it was probably the best equipped studio in NYC. Where else could you finish your workout and have a hot-tub soak or a tanning session??? That served to bring in the merely curious, whom I could then usually convert to addicted players. :>)
> 
> I _should_ have put that money into an account for lean times. Instead I had to hustle private lessons and do tutoring at school when the crunch came.
> 
> But I've never been a great business person - only a mediocre taijiquan teacher.


That is quite a set up!  What did your instructor think of all the additions you made to the place?  Are you still teaching there?

- Ceicei


----------



## SifuPhil

Ceicei said:


> It is really neat that he felt he trained you well enough to trust you with the place.


I guess he was sort of the Chinatown equivalent to Donald Trump - he had quite a few properties, and wanted me simply to act as overseer for that particular one. As you might imagine, I had no problem with that.



> That is quite a set up!  What did your instructor think of all the additions you made to the place?  Are you still teaching there?


He laughed whenever I made one of my "improvements" - said I was "_pouring chocolate syrup over cheesecake_". :idunno: LOL

No, it's been many years and many miles since I was there.


----------



## Ceicei

Thank you so much for your responses, both here and elsewhere (other boards), by email, and private messages.

To answer some questions how I relate with my old school, my former instructors and I are still very good friends. They have asked me to liquidate some inventory from the two closed studios. 

Because of the things you've shared with me, I've received many ideas of possible options. I have narrowed down to five different options. One of them, as suggested by a few, is to defer the decision to be a school owner for a more opportune time in the future. I am not in a hurry to be one, hence the reason for my extensive research.

I've had some ask me about my business skills. That is a good question and a valid one. Here is a brief summary of some skills I have which may be transferable.

For two small organizations, I was on a committee creating and finalizing the articles of incorporation and bylaws, as well as working directly with business and tax lawyers making sure we were in compliance with city, county, state, and federal requirements. I have been a president of a seven-member executive board of 501(c)3 non-profit organization for six years, responsible for the overall operation, both with the selection of personnel and handling of financial matters. I also was the chair of a large state-wide convention handling several thousand dollars worth of transactions and setting up events and activities. I also am a partner with my husband running his computer business for more than 10 years and prepared the business taxes.

However, I know that running a school as an owner is an entirely different animal.  

Another valid question some asked was about my teaching abilities. I was a high school teacher and a college instructor for about 10 years, so I do use different teaching strategies. I also currently work (as a profession) with people who have physical and mental disabilities. Notwithstanding my teaching experience elsewhere, My Kenpo teaching is limited. I taught other students throughout my Kenpo years (I've trained at six different studios), so I am cognizant of the variety of expectations how head instructors run their classes. 

I continue to work on refining myself and increasing my understanding of Kenpo. I am also aware that there are others who do not consider me experienced enough to be a Kenpo instructor. I am a brown belt working towards my black belt and I do not feel I am ready to be an instructor. My plan was that if I set up a school, I want to hire some instructors to teach there until I become of a skill level sufficient to teach Kenpo well. 

I appreciate all your suggestions, ideas, advice, and warnings; I learned much and have a better view now of the challenges faced by the instructors and owners of martial arts. 

I will consider which options I have available to me, determine which will fit my situation, and go from there.

Please continue to give feedback.  Thank you.

- Ceicei


----------



## jus_dann

you know, reading these posts makes me think of my personal sitation.
i have my wife at my throat 24/7 about MA having no return...LOL
i started teaching just over a year ago (with little to no backing or cert)
i`m one of those guys that has to have a few arts going at the same time or i just get crazy.
so here i am, trying to explain myself. how and why i need to reach instructor level in a few systems so that my own training would "hold water" with an outsider.
one thing that is a little different about me is i studied a few arts under 1 person for a few years and reached "technician level" (mostly chinese). then things went south, he moved, injuries (myself as well as my instructor),etc.
and well, thing just worked out that i could "finish", per say, that arts that i started. so it was time for me to move on. i found myself working with a few different people on a few different arts. mostly my thoughts on teaching a group were so i could bring in my instructors for a seminar and then get the private instruction i needed. at one point in time i had 10 guys that i was teaching in my shop (at home) and then, with a few back injuries, things just kinda fizzled out. now, being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel(with my injuries), its time to start training a little heavier. but the problem is, justifying money spent with no return. i mean  you could kinda look at it like going to college. there is no sure way that you will ever get that job you want LOL. and dont get me wroung either, i`m not chasing a dollar here, just trying to take things to the next level. i really enjoy teaching and i`ve always been honest with every student. so how do i explain things to my wife about having to give and invest to be able to get the rewards later?......gezzz
anybody have any ideas? please, i`m begging LOL


----------



## TheArtofDave

have you to get your wife involved in the business? To help keep the books or something so she can understand the rewards of the whole thing, or is she not interested in it?


----------

