# Anklepicks



## Echsos (May 3, 2006)

I've noticed that not a lot of people use anklepicks in grappling.  I'm just curious as to why.  I fancy myself as a good ankle picker and have gotten many takedowns from it.  I see many advantages as to using this takedown as opposed to shots.  You're guaranteed he's going straight to the ground if it lands, no sprawling or anything like that.  And you can almost bypass the guard completely if you're in good position.  So why don't people use the anklepicks more?


----------



## MardiGras Bandit (May 3, 2006)

I like anklepicks, although I'm pretty bad at them. I know a couple of guys who can pull them off left and right, they are both wrestlers who came to BJJ and have pretty good takedowns in general. I usually go for clinch takedowns or head snaps when I'm on my feet (oh who am I kidding, I wait for the other guy to move and then pull guard :boing1. I've trained them more and alot of drills we do reinforce the setups.

OK, I'm done rambling. Point is, anklepicks are pretty cool and I have to work on my takedowns...


----------



## Andrew Green (May 3, 2006)

I like them, and use them semi-regullarly.  Not so much in MMA sparring though, then I'm not such a fan.


----------



## bushidomartialarts (May 3, 2006)

ankle picks were my favorite takedown when i was wrestling.   i hadn't noticed before, but you're right -- don't see many of them in the mma stuff.

maybe it's not part of the tradition.  or maybe there's something about the move that exposes you when the other guy's allowed to hit you...

hunh.  never noticed that before.  thanks.


----------



## green meanie (May 4, 2006)

Welcome aboard Echsos. I like anklepicks as well, and have one I like to teach my students. I think you've made an excellent observation though: it seems like nearly everyone uses just the double leg takedown, along with an occasional cut to the single if they happen to get buried. I don't know why we don't see a little more variety.


----------



## Andrew Green (May 4, 2006)

On a double or single you can keep your hands protecting your head while you crash in, on a ankle pick you have to drop your hand.

BTW - Ken used one against Rich Franklin when he slipped (or was it a really was it a really odd setup?), so it gets used at least occasionally.


----------



## Echsos (May 4, 2006)

green meanie said:
			
		

> Welcome aboard Echsos. I like anklepicks as well, and have one I like to teach my students. I think you've made an excellent observation though: it seems like nearly everyone uses just the double leg takedown, along with an occasional cut to the single if they happen to get buried. I don't know why we don't see a little more variety.


Why thankyou! The ankle pick is alll about the set up, so if you set him up for it then I don't think he should have the chance to hit you at all.  All in all I think it is a skill that should be worked on more considering the effectiveness of this takedown.


----------



## green meanie (May 4, 2006)

I've never really seen where attempting one is any more or less dangerous than any other takedown. At some point the hands are going to have to drop in order to pick up the leg. But after reading Andrew Green's response I think now might be a good time for everyone to describe how they do an anklepick. Perhaps we're not thinking of the same thing or maybe it's being attempted from different positions or situations.


----------



## Echsos (May 4, 2006)

From what I've seen, people tend to call the low single an ankle pick, that might be throwing me off.  The ankle pick I'm describing is usually set up from a collar and elbow tie up.  You can get them to step with their right leg and then you drop down and pick it.


----------



## rutherford (May 4, 2006)

2 interesting setups:

http://bjj.org/techniques/erintoughill/t2-3/

http://bjj.org/techniques/cesar/take1/


----------



## Andrew Green (May 4, 2006)

Echsos said:
			
		

> From what I've seen, people tend to call the low single an ankle pick, that might be throwing me off.  The ankle pick I'm describing is usually set up from a collar and elbow tie up.  You can get them to step with their right leg and then you drop down and pick it.



<- What he said 



As for the examples, I don't like the first one at all, to easy to have countered on you and them end up on top.

The second, in a MMA context, would get bumped by the ability to throw knees IMO.


----------



## rutherford (May 4, 2006)

I admit, I like the first one for reasons other than it's applicability.

The second, I'm not sure you'd be open to a knee if you were still driving forward and down.  And if you're not, there's other stuff that you're opening yourself up to as well, like just getting rolled onto your back.

I do question whether you'd ever be able to reach across for that ankle without a serious mistake by your opponent.


----------



## Echsos (May 4, 2006)

If you're setting it up right you shouldn't have to worry about knees since all his weight will be on top of the foot you are attacking so it'll be planted firmly on the ground. But I'd have to agree with rutherford, it does present a possibility of you being pancaked over.


----------



## Andrew Green (May 4, 2006)

rutherford said:
			
		

> The second, I'm not sure you'd be open to a knee if you were still driving forward and down.  And if you're not, there's other stuff that you're opening yourself up to as well, like just getting rolled onto your back.



Not open to one, throwing a bunch


----------



## green meanie (May 4, 2006)

Okay. I agree with Echsos, I think sometimes people are thinking of the low single when they say anklepick too.

And:

No offense, but I didn't like either of the examples shown. I'll see if I can find any.

In the meantime, I'll try to describe how I prefer to do them. One way is pretty much like Echsos described: Off a collar tie and an elbow control tie or inside control tie. I think it's a fairly safe takedown to go for.

Here's another:

I'll get an underhook or hook around the waist on one side and inside control on the other. On the underhook side I hip in bump the opponents leg back using my leg that's on the same side (right hand underhook - my right leg bumping back the opponents left leg). We call it 'kipping the leg' but I have no idea what that means...

Anyway, while I hip in and drive my right leg in deep bumping his left leg back, I lower my level and pick his right ankle at the same time. If you've drove your right leg in there deep enough the ankle is practically right there cause you've gotten pretty low at this point. And it's pretty safe because you're controlling the hands with the tie up and you're blocking the opponents one leg with yours and you don't release the arm until you're ready to take the ankle and you shouldn't eat any knees before then and once you've picked the ankle you shouldn't eat any after. Worst case scenerio is you might fall into the guard when you hit the floor but I can live with that...

Anywaaaaay, I don't know if that description makes any sense or not. I hope so because I've had a lot of success with this technique so I really want to share it. I'll try to find an example of it if I can.


----------



## Andrew Green (May 4, 2006)

Short clip of one variation:
http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~fclayton/drillbook_site/ankle_pick_tech_book.wmv

A picture of another:
http://members.aol.com/horseradsh/AvonCT-HS-Wrest-Friedhoff1.jpg


----------



## Echsos (May 4, 2006)

green meanie, have you seen people do the shooting kind of ankle pick? It's like where they aren't tied up, then the guy kinda shoots and reaches for the ankle with one hand while the other hand goes up to grab the neck kinda like the collar elbow tie.  I haven't quite figured this one out yet but it seems like a nifty one!


----------



## green meanie (May 5, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Short clip of one variation:
> http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~fclayton/drillbook_site/ankle_pick_tech_book.wmv


 
Yeah, I think that's pretty close to the one Echsos described. I think it can be effective but I think it works better and would be safer to attempt in a MMA situation if you circle away from the ankle first then drive towards it, forcing the opponent out of position and picking the ankle on the way by, rather than staying in front of the opponent and reaching down for the ankle. I think you're more open to eating a knee that way. My two cents.
:asian:


----------



## green meanie (May 5, 2006)

Echsos said:
			
		

> green meanie, have you seen people do the shooting kind of ankle pick? It's like where they aren't tied up, then the guy kinda shoots and reaches for the ankle with one hand while the other hand goes up to grab the neck kinda like the collar elbow tie. I haven't quite figured this one out yet but it seems like a nifty one!


 
I've seen it. I don't like it so much because I think you're open to being pancaked when you go 'high and low' like that.
I personally prefer to work everything from the tie.


----------



## rutherford (May 5, 2006)

green meanie said:
			
		

> No offense, but I didn't like either of the examples shown. I'll see if I can find any.


I don't believe either Cesar or Erin are members.  It's unlikely you'll offend them.

I posted the setups for discussion, not to say I was fond of them.  They came up quickly on a google.


			
				Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Not open to one, throwing a bunch


 
AHHH!  Yes, you're right.  A knee would be more effective.

What do you guys think about the direction of the pick?  From what I've seen, the immediate pull on the ankle is in a direction parallel to the floor rather than lifting it up.  Especially with people bigger than you who have their weight on the leg you're attacking, this seems to make the takedown easier.


----------



## Andrew Green (May 5, 2006)

rutherford said:
			
		

> What do you guys think about the direction of the pick?  From what I've seen, the immediate pull on the ankle is in a direction parallel to the floor rather than lifting it up.  Especially with people bigger than you who have their weight on the leg you're attacking, this seems to make the takedown easier.



Yup, you don't want to lift the leg, that would get their weight to shift to the other, you want to pull it out from under them, similar in effect to some types of footsweeps.


----------



## green meanie (May 5, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Yup, you don't want to lift the leg, that would get their weight to shift to the other, you want to pull it out from under them, similar in effect to some types of footsweeps.


 
Agreed. That's what I was trying to say in my previous post: _"I think it works better and would be safer to attempt in a MMA situation if you circle away from the ankle first then drive towards it, forcing the opponent out of position and picking the ankle on the way by, rather than staying in front of the opponent and reaching down for the ankle..."_


----------



## Echsos (May 5, 2006)

So you're saying circle away and then shoot in on it?


----------



## green meanie (May 5, 2006)

Echsos said:
			
		

> So you're saying circle away and then shoot in on it?


 
Sort of. I know I'm not explaining it very well but I'm trouble describing it. What I'm trying to say is, from the collar and inside control tie, rather than staying right in front of your opponent and trying to pick the ankle from there -if you circle in close toward the collar tie you can drive across their body -toward the inside control tie and the ankle you want. Know what I mean? Not forward, but circling to the right and then driving across -from right to left. You can then pick the ankle as you're driving across and it picks easily because it acts like a trip, or a footsweep, and you're not actually having to pick the foot off the floor. Does that make sense?


----------



## Echsos (May 5, 2006)

The way I've been doing anklepicks(I taught myself how actually haha) is that I've never actually driven it, I've so far relied completely on perfect setups to get the foot right where I want it so all I have to do is drop/kneeldown and pick it.  For instance:

I would be in a collar elbow tie.  I circle to the right very slowly then suddenly I take one wide step and immediately drop down.  By the time I drop down the foot is either right in front of me or just about to set down and I just pick it.  Care to describe how you do yours in detail?  I've seen a lot of people do a kind of driving ankle pick but I've never really done those kinds myself.


----------



## green meanie (May 6, 2006)

Echsos said:
			
		

> Care to describe how you do yours in detail? I've seen a lot of people do a kind of driving ankle pick but I've never really done those kinds myself.


I don't know if I can describe it any better than I already have.


----------

