# What is the TRUTH about Sonnon's style?



## shinobi22 (Jan 13, 2004)

I'd like the help of the board experts here on my first post. I tried posting this over on Sonnon's forum, but I didn't receive a satisfactory reply. :shrug:  I tried posting this over at the "kungfu magazine" forum, and a bunch of jock-riding phaggots all posted their hero worship for this guy.  :soapbox: 

I'd like to know from REAL people and not paid endorsements people who have trained with Scott in his style of Russian martial art. Is this legit or is it just some composite of rehashed traditional martial arts with a scientific spin?  Ive heard about him wrestling, but I dont give a damn if he's a world sombo champ.  It's just wrestling and there's absolutely no way anyone could argue that fact.  Thinking he can fight because he can wrestle is as absurd as teaching BJJ to the US Rangers.   

Don't get all in a huff. I'm not a troll, but I call it like I see it. 

So who here has actually seen Scott fight and who here has actually fought him? If he can't fight, then in my opinion it's all just smoke and mirrors. 

I'd like to hear REAL practical applications people have made from personally studying under him, not any evangelical praises about a large vocabulary. 

Last question. What can I learn from Scott that I can't learn from someone else and paying my annual dues for my library card? Is there ANYTHING unique about Scott's style, or is it all just repackaged? 

I have to admit I'm getting quite annoyed with this Russian martial arts mystique with the special forces card played way too much, the no-touch psychic combat, Sombo wrestling (it's a fricking SPORT!), weird movement, contradictory breathing, faith healing, remote viewing, causing sleep, and of course pseudoscientific jargon everywhere. I'd like to know about hte MAN not the madness. What's the REAL story on the guy?

Flocks (emphasis on SHEEPLE) of his students talked about how he and the other russian gurus are the biggest baddasses on the 21st century block but no one could answer how what they do is unique and what they teach that an authentic martial arts master cannot.

I respect candor and honesty which is why I do not wear gloves when I ask questions. I expect the same in return.  I am hoping to get more of a candid reply before checking him out personally at his next "camp" (brainwashing?) so don't call me a troll for shooting straight and talking from the heart.

If you think I'm talking about Chael Sonnen from Team Quest, your wrong. I'm talking about Scott Sonnon

Domo,
Shinobi


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 13, 2004)

This post reeks of a negative agenda.  Still, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, despite the fact that Coach Sonnon seems to have one of those most dedicated and vicious followings of trolls of any well-known MA personality I've seen.

Coach Sonnon's "style" is definitely "legit."  Those who have trained directly with him have nothing but good things to say about him.  I have not had the pleasure, though I've spoken with many who have and have had the pleasure of evaluating several of his video series (as well as editing a couple of books produced by his company).   He is primarily a Sambo stylist, though long ago he (as I understand it) embarked on the personal crusade he's undertaken to apply science and biology to his art to make it better.  Hence the "performance enhancement" approach that is used by the company now, an approach long in development and much welcomed.

This is not "hero worship," incidentally -- this is the very real respect earned by Coach Sonnon through my dealings with him, which have been extensive.  I knew nothing about him when he first asked if I might be interested in reviewing some of his work;  what I saw won me over on a technical level, but what I experienced in dealing with him on an individual level won me over on a personal level.

You could, I suppose, go on talking smack about someone you don't know, have never met, and know little about.  You will not, however, be placing yourself in good company if you choose to do so.


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## shinobi22 (Jan 13, 2004)

So you havent fought him.   

I keep hearing from people who say that they know many people who have fought him and were impressed, but funny how none of them themselves post?  Id prefer bad company that was real than good company that were lies.  Im probably too hard on you.  Yes Scotts a good businessman and a nice guy and all that, but can the guy fight?  Do you see my simple question here?


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 13, 2004)

A visit to the CST forum confirms that you're simply an angry little Agenda Troll.  Shoo.


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## lhommedieu (Jan 13, 2004)

Sorry - Couldn't resist:

There are no simple questions, only simple minds.

Best,

Steve


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## Brian King (Jan 14, 2004)

> A visit to the CST forum confirms that you're simply an angry little Agenda Troll. Shoo






> There are no simple questions, only simple minds.



 :rofl: :rofl: 

Guys thanks for the laughs
Brian King


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## Cruentus (Jan 14, 2004)

Talk is cheap. If you want to know if he can really fight, then go fight him yourself.

PAUL

btw... I do not study Russian Martial Arts.


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## Furtry (Jan 14, 2004)

I'm going to concur with the rest of the people here shinobi22, if you really want to know, find out for your self at the seminar.
Oh... and the style is for real :shrug:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 14, 2004)

For some reason, you seem to have a 'bone' with Mr. Sonnon.  That is of course between you and him.   As a point of comparison, this isn't a 'no-hold-barred' forum.  I've seen you post this same message on various other boards, and each time you get the same responces.  Expecting different here isn't logical.

If you doubt it, go try it.
If you believe he's a fraud, post your evidence.
If you are just trying to stir up trouble, go away.

I'm normally more lenient, but your phrasing left much to be desired, appearing to be less an inquiry, and more a personal vendetta against 1 individual.  We don't allow vendettas here.  Try one of the 'anything goes' boards.

Also, review our rules as well if you intend to stay here.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314

:asian:


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## Mark Jakabcsin (Jan 14, 2004)

"So you havent fought him. "

If you want to find out step up to the plate and take a swing.....in person. Trolling from the safety of the Internet really is a cowards methods. Heck you can't even sign with a real name. LOLOL.

mark j.


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## Cruentus (Jan 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mark Jakabcsin _
> *"So you havent fought him. "
> 
> If you want to find out step up to the plate and take a swing.....in person. Trolling from the safety of the Internet really is a cowards methods. Heck you can't even sign with a real name. LOLOL.
> ...



Thats because he is a shinobi...a secret Ninja...Yah!:rofl:


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## KyleShort (Jan 15, 2004)

I have videos and books by Sonnon and I find his methods to be well thought out and applicable accross all spectrums of physical endevours.  He is also an exceptional excersise scientist (I have followed some of his workouts with tremendous results).  In addition, I disagree with the notion that that being a world champion samboist does not make you a good fighter.  It is certainly true that sambo competition is not a real fight, but all it takes is a simple mindset adjustment to take your sport sambo skills and apply them in a serious altercation.  The tenacity, strength, body control and skills are there.  Heck, back in high school I watched a wrestler buddy of mine get jumped by two guys out in front of a 7/11.  He put one through a car window and took the other to the ground, intentionally dropping him face first.  The "fight" was over.  He used his wrestling with a slight mindset change.

That having been said...I don't purchase any more of Sonnon's material.  His advertising is simply distasteful to me, and being a marketing person I take it personally =)  Look at the back cover of Body Flow...big bold words like "Lethal", "Infectious" blah blah blah.  It wreaks of "holy than though art attitude" and "I have the magical secrets that no one else posseses".  But again, that is just personal taste...he is still very good at what he does and seems to be a very good guy to boot.


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## Pyros (Jan 15, 2004)

Sambo comes in three flavors, sport, self-defence, and military. The sports flavor being the most common. All three flavors are taught though, just seek out competent instructors. The sports flavor is most common for two reasons: NHB tournaments are "the thing" and all sambo students must begin with sports flavor techniques. Although I must admit I have no clue of the situation in the US about the instructors there. I am speaking solely about Russia and the neighbouring countries with long Sambo traditions.


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## arnisador (Jan 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *a secret Ninja *



Is there any other kind?


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 16, 2004)

> That having been said...I don't purchase any more of Sonnon's material. His advertising is simply distasteful to me, and being a marketing person I take it personally =) Look at the back cover of Body Flow...big bold words like "Lethal", "Infectious" blah blah blah. It wreaks of "holy than though art attitude" and "I have the magical secrets that no one else posseses". But again, that is just personal taste...he is still very good at what he does and seems to be a very good guy to boot.



Take another look at that back cover.  I think you're missing the play on words.  The terms "lethal" and "infectious" refer to the _harmful effects on your mind and body_ that "Body Flow" is intended to _combat_.  It's not like he's marketing it as a "lethal" system of stress management.

Marketing copy is marketing copy.  Coach Sonnon is never anything but earnest and friendly in his videos and books (though one could make the criticism that a lot of his earlier work is too verbose -- something he has worked diligently to improve over time).


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## Cruentus (Jan 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Is there any other kind? *



No...but SHinobi's are even MORE secret and deadly. Just ask on, and they'll tell ya!


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 16, 2004)

Keep it respectful folks.....


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## NYCRonin (Jan 16, 2004)

Gentlemen
  When I read the original post, the invectives launched showed me that our shinobi/troll - (Mr. Elmore has a great field guide for identifying them on his site - though he would be more qualified to identify the species - if it writes like a troll and acts like a troll..it probably is a troll) - is clearly mixing up his russian stylists.
The ranting about 'psychic stuff/no contact, etc.' is usually directed at the RMA I study - not ROSS, by those who havent experienced it.
   Previous posters have covered the 'marketing' thing pretty well.
Although I have yet to meet Scott, I do have friends that know him well. There is no denying that he is sincere in personal dealings and passionate about (and proficient in) what he does.
I look forward to our eventual meeting.

   Shinobi, you launched an ill-concieved and personal attack on one individual...one you've never met and a method you have not experienced. You posted that, on another board; you found an opinion that did not satisfy you and labeled those members as *** kissers. So, you took your 'act' here - seeking verification of your viewpoint based on inexperience and ignorance of both man and method. Now, seeing that you did not find any agreement with your view; will you term us *** kissers also, then keep moving until your find a forum based on self righteous ignorance and the easy internet attack of the anonymous,,,until you find a trollish community that will agree with you? Any rational individual without an agenda, upon finding so many in agreement with a contrary view; might just re-think their position and find out the truth for themself.
After doing so, you might be more convinced you were right - but at least you will have personal experience to back up that conviction...without that, all you have are empty words. It is your choice.

Basically, this all seems to boil down to an implied question - "Can this guy kick my ***'? If the above opinions of Scott's validity dont satisfy you, then you will have to put your *** in the vicinity of Scott or a ROSS practitioner and seek your answer there. This is what EVERY real martial student does - personal experience out weighs empty words or video viewing every time.

Rob Green
Bklyn., NY


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NYCRonin _
> ... So, you took your 'act' here - seeking verification of your viewpoint based on inexperience and ignorance of both man and method. Now, seeing that you did not find any agreement with your view; will you term us *** kissers also, then keep moving until your find a forum based on self righteous ignorance and the easy internet attack of the anonymous,,,until you find a trollish community that will agree with you? ....



Last count, he's hit about 6 or so other forums...and yes, we're labeled asskissers, or worse on at least 2 of them.


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## Phil Elmore (Jan 16, 2004)

He showed up at Cyberkwoon just yesterday or the day before.


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## jellyman (Jan 17, 2004)

Troll, and a dumbass to boot.


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## arnisador (Jan 21, 2004)

He's currently trolling in E-Budo, and I saw him on r.m-a as well.

He's dedicated, I'll give him that!


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## Bill Cogswell (Jan 21, 2004)

I haven't trained directly with Coach Sonnon but I have some of his material. I find his material to be quite useful and it has helped me over the last few years. Whether he can "fight" or not doesn't matter to me as he is a one of a kind Coach and person. His material is cutting edge and sadly jealousy usually brings out the worst in people.


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## Old Tiger (Jan 21, 2004)

I met Coach Sonnen at the 1996 Sombo Nationals in which I competed as did he.  The testment to his coaching ability is that he brought the largest team and they all did extemely well. He walked away with it. His sombo is excellent, he is able to transfer those skills to others. Havent' seen his material but I have seen the man and he deserves respect.


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