# Being a good fighter



## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.

Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions. 



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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2016)

First welcome to MT.  Before everyone pig piles on you, I would suggest you make an introduction post telling everyone who you are and your experience in the new members section.
I will give you some time to do that,,before I breakdown your post and explain how I think your incorrect in your assumptions.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> 
> Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you're a taekwondo guy.  and kicboxing is not mainly kicks at all hence the name kick boxing. It has kicks and punches and knees and elbows and no other techaisus that can be used in a fight? well fights are mainly punches kicks blocks knees elbows. fights arent prettu and choreograhped like movies you want to try a 360 tornado kick on the street theyll most likely be cleaning you up off the pavement and honestly this kind of post is definentely likely to cause some arguments. Also you say you wouldn't want to get close to someone but what if you have no choice what if someone pins you to a wall or gets up close to you in a crowded area like a nightclub what will you do then ask him to back up a bit?


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> 
> Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions.
> 
> ...


 what if the person lacks the flexibility to do Taekwondo kicks?


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2016)

thought i should point out the OP is 16.  lets not let the weight of the pig pile crush his enthusiasm.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> 
> Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions.
> 
> ...


Welcome to MT. There will be a varying degree of disagreement with what you posted. I'll try to walk to the gentle line here. I have background in several arts, though only significant time in karate (American freestyle and Shotokan) and Judo other than my primary art.

First, you may not want to get close to someone attacking you, but they probably want to get close to you. If you have no close-in responses, you'll find yourself in a world of trouble unless you see the attack early enough AND are far more skilled than the attacker. One of my students came to me specifically because his Shotokan training lacks any significant in-close work, and that leaves him vulnerable. Personally, if I can keep them away, I wil, but if they want to close that distance, I'll use that to my advantage.

Secondly, you seem to have an unclear picture of what grappling is. If you're referring to ground-grappling, you're right that it's really only likely to be usable against a single attacker. At the same time, if you're on the ground, you need some ground-grappling capability to get back up. With standing grappling, however, we have a different game, entirely. The ability to control an attacker is even higher with grappling than with striking (especially if they aren't feeling the pain of strikes).

An ideal self-defense training regimen should have answers to many ranges, should include striking and grappling (including ground work). Many arts don't include enough of at least one of those, so most of us cross-train.

In short, there is no one "the answer" to what's good. Nearly any art can be effective for self-defense, and most (perhaps all) of them aren't complete for any one person.


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## Buka (Aug 21, 2016)

Welcome to MartialTalk, FJ. Hope you enjoy it.


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## Azulx (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things, two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> 
> Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions.
> 
> ...



From a TKD perspective not all TKD is 50/50 when it comes to hands and feet. My specific style is more like 90/10. As in 90 percent kicks ten percent punches. Now this doesn't mean I have no idea how to defend myself if my life was in danger. I'm just saying that you can't talk about TKD in absolute. Not all styles, and variations are the same.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

Sorry guys I understand some of you think I'm bashing your art I'm really not tho. Also I'm not just a TKD fighter, I know other fighting styles myself 


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## Jenna (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> 
> Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not. On the other hand learning some moves can never hurt. If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time like this where as with grappling you cannot. Which striking art?: That's based on the artists doing the art. But why something like Wing Chun maybe not your favorite is because of all the flashy up-close hand techniques. The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me; with that in mind you may consider something with lots of kicks like Kickboxing or Taekwondo. Taekwondo is about 50/50 between Hand techniques, Kicks, takedowns, Self Defense, forms, disarms, and some joint locks. Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight. Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations. I am not bashing any martial art because they're all awesome but I'm just giving my opinions.
> 
> ...



Hey welcome to MT. I enjoyed reading your post. Tell me.. do you think people who learn a non-striking art - and there are many styles as I am sure you are aware - are wrong-minded to do so? Would they be better learning as you say a few moves of a striking art. If so does that mean their own non-striking art is insufficient?


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2016)

ok time is up....


FlamingJulian said:


> Sorry guys I understand some of you think I'm bashing your art I'm really not tho.


no one has mentioned anything about you bashing an art. if you were bashing something you would know.


FlamingJulian said:


> I know other fighting styles myself


i would point out that many here including myself have been training in martial arts at least 2 times longer than you have been on the planet.  you really dont "know" anything yet.  you train in martial arts and thats great. you may have a black belt , i wound not know you have not posted an introduction to let us know,  but some time in training is far from "knowing" something and having an indepth understanding of the subject.
go back and re read peoples posts.  no one is accusing you of bashing them and so far no one is bashing you. what they are doing is pointing out small errors in your perception of violence and how martial arts works in violent situations.



FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things, two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.


i understand you are using this statement as a set up for the rest of your post however martial arts has a much wider range. how about the teacher who is a good martial artist because he understands complex principals and can articulate that to students and has the ability to create better students than he ever was?  there are more than just three, there are many.



FlamingJulian said:


> In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not.



for starters can you define what you mean by a fighter?

if i am understanding this correctly are you referring to the old adage "_fighters are born, not made"_?
i would disagree.  i have yet to see or hear of a story where a new born baby jumped up on the table and slapped the doctor back.
every single aspect of a fighter can be, in fact it has to be learnt.  some people have a greater willingness to engage with the enemy and some may have more physical skill but everyone under the right conditions has the ability and mental capacity to fight.  around the globe and throughout history there are 7, 8, 9 and 10 year olds who are actively engaged in combat and killing. its a tragedy but they were conditioned for it.



FlamingJulian said:


> If you want to be a good fighter in general you should learn a striking art because you defeat multiple opponents at a time


you have been watching too many movies and too many YouTube videos.



FlamingJulian said:


> The last thing I want to do is get close to someone trying to attack me


your mistaken assumption as has been pointed out already is that you assume you have a choice in venue, numbers of attackers, weapons involved, that you can dictate the range of the attack and that you can see it coming. in many cases it is an ambush attack when you are most vulnerable.  criminals are not stupid.  if i was going to attack you i would hit you when you were pissing in the mens room and slam your head against the wall and toilet. i would stomp on your ankle and mess you up before you even knew what was happening.



FlamingJulian said:


> Therefore I would recommend Taekwondo for real life combat situations


TKD is a great art and has some really powerfull kicks. my old teacher could rip the heavy bag down at will tearing the bag seams and bending the metal "S" hooks with his kicks.  your evaluation of real life combat is based on what?  before you recommend the cure you should have a full understanding of the illness.  
you like TKD. it works for you great.  i include kicking into what i do as well.  but kicking is a small part of the needed tools for martial skills and an even smaller slice of the pie needed for self defense.   would you equally recommend TKD for law enforcement who carry firearms, for women who need to defend against rape or someone who lacks the flexibility as was mentioned?  your basing your logic on yourself rather than accounting for the variables and situations of others.   
keep training and keep learning but a bit of forewarning, as you age the kicks you cherish now will fall to the wayside as your bodies limitations dictates what you can do.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 21, 2016)

hoshin1600 said:


> ok time is up....
> 
> no one has mentioned anything about you bashing an art. if you were bashing something you would know.
> 
> ...


Well and clearly stated.


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## drop bear (Aug 21, 2016)

I still don't get this you are either a good fighter or not stuff. It is a skill. You can learn it. Most people are not good at something they have never done.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 21, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I still don't get this you are either a good fighter or not stuff. It is a skill. You can learn it. Most people are not good at something they have never done.


I think it's that attitude some people grow up in bad neighbourhoods and constantly fighting and their born into fighting so they're better than those who aren't. Which I think is rubbish just because you throw your hands around against idiots doesn't make you a good fighter


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## Azulx (Aug 21, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I think it's that attitude some people grow up in bad neighbourhoods and constantly fighting and their born into fighting so they're better than those who aren't. Which I think is rubbish just because you throw your hands around against idiots doesn't make you a good fighter



This reminds me of the people who say they only want an instructor who has many street fights under their belt.


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## Tez3 (Aug 21, 2016)

Azulx said:


> This reminds me of the people who say they only want an instructor who has many street fights under their belt.



I'd prefer instructors who fought people rather than streets.


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 21, 2016)

Grappling can can be used to fight more than one guy. For example just yesterday I and two others were training our hip throw. My partners head bounced off the matt, when it was his turn he did the same to me. 

Now if that were pavement or concrete we would both more than likely be dead right now. Finishing a guy off in one move Is perfect for more than one attacker.


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 21, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I think it's that attitude some people grow up in bad neighbourhoods and constantly fighting and their born into fighting so they're better than those who aren't. Which I think is rubbish just because you throw your hands around against idiots doesn't make you a good fighter



I think that's a grey area because if they are able to take a good hit without buckling up or panicking then that already sets them apart from most people.

There is also the logic that if two slow cars race, one will have to win right? That wouldn't make the winner a good race car though.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

You guys have good points. I'm sure some of you could beat me and know much more than I do. I was just giving my opinions. I'm sure some of you are much older as well 


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> You guys have good points. I'm sure some of you could beat me and know much more than I do. I was just giving my opinions. I'm sure some of you are much older as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



and your opinions are valid and worth thinking and talking about.  debate is not a bad thing.  it makes me think and rethink what i believe and expands my understanding.


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## Tames D (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Note: There are different types of good martial artists, one being that they are good at the mental aspect of things,  two they are good at sparring and competition, and 3 is that they can fight well in the streets.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Welcome to Martialtalk Julian. I'm in category 3.


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## JP3 (Aug 21, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> what if the person lacks the flexibility to do Taekwondo kicks?


Then, you'd be talking to me. Ha! 20 years in and 4 degrees later, and I put away all the flashy TKD kicking years ago as street-ineffective.  Cool to watch, sure. Fantastic spectator Olympic sport, absolutely. Rules-driven and full of exploitable holes, you bet.

Any style can beat any other style. Anyone can get caught, just like anyone can get lucky.

These truths being self-evident to folks who have spent a few years in and around the fight game, certain things are real truth, however. The fighter who trains to fight, really, is a better fighter than the person who practices techniques but isn't actually in a fight won't do as well.  This being said, the guy who trains and practices his/her stuff, even if not intending to get into a fight, ever, is way ahead than someone who has never trained (keep in mind, those folks who just go out and learn to fight the hard way, by doing it, are training...).

I've got this theory about fighting, physical conflict, whatever. The person who successfully applies his rule system to the other guy - while not allowing the reverse to take place, wins.

TKD guy wants you "over there" where he can unload that catalog of whipping, turning, smashingly feisty kick techniques and long-range hand striking they're known for.  BTDT.  Wrestler who is good gets past, slips, blocks or is just plain lucky ends up standing next to TKD guy and grabs him. Oops, no more long range, now you've got to have a tool in your bag to deal with this new problem. Issue is, wrestler already has that tool kit in his bag, and his "bag" is one of those rolling, professional mechanic style tool kits compared to the TKD guys pair of pliers.  In this scenario, things are not going to go well for TKD guy.

But, we could just as easily flip-flop the roles, make it a hyped up collegiate wrestler out for a bash a geek night and Oops, he happens to pick on a skilled TKD guy (who has seen wrestling before, key point).  Wrestler tries to close, TKD guy evades and sticks him with a simple kick or strike and lets him pass by, Ole! Wrestler (if as in my mental image of this story, loses his cool) and just goes nuts trying to get to the TKD guy, and IF the TKD guy is able to keep the slipping and distance (a key in every striking art) right where he wants it, and is also able to deliver energy on target, and continue to do so effectively, will eventually (it may only take one good technique) cause enough damage to end the situation, either by submission (I give up, take my ball and go home IS submission), or defeat.

So, to me, it's not style at all, it's practice.

Then, it's practice something else.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> You guys have good points. I'm sure some of you could beat me and know much more than I do. I was just giving my opinions. I'm sure some of you are much older as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which points do you think are good and bad? Why?

It helps to challenge everyone's beliefs once in a while, and a good way is to explain any issues with counterarguments if anyone has them


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I'm assuming you're a taekwondo guy.  and kicboxing is not mainly kicks at all hence the name kick boxing. It has kicks and punches and knees and elbows and no other techaisus that can be used in a fight? well fights are mainly punches kicks blocks knees elbows. fights arent prettu and choreograhped like movies you want to try a 360 tornado kick on the street theyll most likely be cleaning you up off the pavement and honestly this kind of post is definentely likely to cause some arguments. Also you say you wouldn't want to get close to someone but what if you have no choice what if someone pins you to a wall or gets up close to you in a crowded area like a nightclub what will you do then ask him to back up a bit?



You have a good point and that's why I posted my opinions. I wanted to see others points. A friend of mine took kickboxing and that's where I got that information from. No, fight aren't pretty. But yes knowing grappling never hurts. 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> what if the person lacks the flexibility to do Taekwondo kicks?



Damn that would suck. I would tell them to stretch a lot or take something like ninjutsu which utilizes great hand techniques, grapples, joint locks, some kicks, throws, takedowns, dodges, and more 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 21, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Welcome to MT. There will be a varying degree of disagreement with what you posted. I'll try to walk to the gentle line here. I have background in several arts, though only significant time in karate (American freestyle and Shotokan) and Judo other than my primary art.
> 
> First, you may not want to get close to someone attacking you, but they probably want to get close to you. If you have no close-in responses, you'll find yourself in a world of trouble unless you see the attack early enough AND are far more skilled than the attacker. One of my students came to me specifically because his Shotokan training lacks any significant in-close work, and that leaves him vulnerable. Personally, if I can keep them away, I wil, but if they want to close that distance, I'll use that to my advantage.
> 
> ...



I completely agree 


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Damn that would suck. I would tell them to stretch a lot or take something like ninjutsu which utilizes great hand techniques, grapples, joint locks, some kicks, throws, takedowns, dodges, and more.



Hmm… not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but exactly what do you know of the make up of ninjutsu's curriculum?


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm… not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but exactly what do you know of the make up of ninjutsu's curriculum?



I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this. There's too much for me to write about. They study a lot of things and the emphasis can change depending on the school/dojo. 


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

You're young. You're also new here. I'm going to recommend taking both those factors into consideration before stating anything about any art here… and especially against relying on wikipedia for accuracy. You may want to follow the links in my signature to understand why I asked about that particular comment of yours…


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this



or you could just ask an expert....oh that would be Chris Parker then. 

I'm not being funny but you do know this site is for martial artists, one's who actually train as well as instruct and have been for decades?


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> or you could just ask an expert....oh that would be Chris Parker then.
> 
> I'm not being funny but you do know this site is for martial artists, one's who actually train as well as instruct and have been for decades?



If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho. I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well. I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will. 


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this. There's too much for me to write about. They study a lot of things and the emphasis can change depending on the school/dojo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wikipedia articles are often overly generic. They can be edited by anyone, and though they are supposed to be based on other sources, those sources are not vetted, so the information there may be based on bad information the original source. Wikipedia is often a good place to start research, but rarely a good place to end it.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Wikipedia articles are often overly generic. They can be edited by anyone, and though they are supposed to be based on other sources, those sources are not vetted, so the information there may be based on bad information the original source. Wikipedia is often a good place to start research, but rarely a good place to end it.



I agree with that. 24/7 I research about martial arts and Wikipedia seems pretty legit for the most part. It's legit about the styles I have taken. 


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho. I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well. I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is not combat. Take it easy. Tez was just pointing out that most of the folks on here have a lot of background knowledge in MA, so sources like Wikipedia will rarely carry much weight. When someone here makes the claim "I know a lot about..." it's usually backed up by a lot of personal experience, rather than what we've read. When it's second- or third-hand information, we're more likely to be asking than telling.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> This is not combat. Take it easy. Tez was just pointing out that most of the folks on here have a lot of background knowledge in MA, so sources like Wikipedia will rarely carry much weight. When someone here makes the claim "I know a lot about..." it's usually backed up by a lot of personal experience, rather than what we've read. When it's second- or third-hand information, we're more likely to be asking than telling.



Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me. 


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho.



Settle down, no one has suggested you don't train… the point was that the people you're discussing with here are well and truly ahead of you and your experience at this point, and to keep that in mind. With regards to the ninjutsu comment, I've been training in that art for two and a half decades, teaching for the past 10 years. I also train in a number of classical Japanese traditions, as well as having experience in many other modern, classical, and traditional (not necessarily the same thing) systems, ranging from boxing to BJJ to Aikido to TKD to Karate to Kyudo to RBSD systems and more over the past three decades or so.



FlamingJulian said:


> I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well.



Yeah… the whole "my family members have taught me their techniques" thing rarely goes over well… but the point is that you are not them, they are not here putting themselves forth as informed persons, you are. So the question is, just how much understanding and knowledge do you actually have?



FlamingJulian said:


> I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.



Sure. But the question is how informed those opinions are. If they're not actually based in anything beyond reading wikipedia, you'll find that you'll get called on them pretty quickly… we go well beyond wiki here… 



FlamingJulian said:


> I agree with that. 24/7 I research about martial arts and Wikipedia seems pretty legit for the most part. It's legit about the styles I have taken.



No, Wiki is not "legit"… but the more important question is, what are these styles you have taken? How long have you trained in them? That's part of why you were suggested to post an introduction on the Meet and Greet section… 

You mention that your cousin "takes ninjutsu"… the same questions apply… who with, how long has he trained, what rank etc?


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



*No one is getting upset,* unless it's you, I wasn't suggesting you don't train martial arts rather it's you that seems to think that posters here need to be instructed which isn't upsetting just funny.


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## Tgace (Aug 22, 2016)




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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Settle down, no one has suggested you don't train… the point was that the people you're discussing with here are well and truly ahead of you and your experience at this point, and to keep that in mind. With regards to the ninjutsu comment, I've been training in that art for two and a half decades, teaching for the past 10 years. I also train in a number of classical Japanese traditions, as well as having experience in many other modern, classical, and traditional (not necessarily the same thing) systems, ranging from boxing to BJJ to Aikido to TKD to Karate to Kyudo to RBSD systems and more over the past three decades or so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily. I'm not trying to say that I have decades of experience because that would be impossible. I'm just giving my opinions based on my knowledge that I currently have. I know that many of you guys think I'm just the average TKD guy who's going to say TKD is awesome but TBH I think JKD is much better. I put my opinions here for your guy's knowledge because I am looking to educate myself on this topic. I guess I should've just asked for opinions. Sorry. 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> *No one is getting upset,* unless it's you, I wasn't suggesting you don't train martial arts rather it's you that seems to think that posters here need to be instructed which isn't upsetting just funny.



Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic. 


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually, nobody has gotten upset yet. Everyone has simply provided input (and some correction) to help you understand your audience here and to point out where you might be making mistakes. We do this for each other all the time - frankly, it's one of the reasons I keep coming back. Chris has certainly corrected me on points where I was in error (just go look back at some of my posts about koryu arts). Now I know better and Chris doesn't have to dope-slap me when I mis-speak.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily



You might want to think about the 'beating up bit', it's not how we think.
Actually you don't know what we think, I think you are a new poster here so are being given some slack while you find your feet. That's it, nothing more.



FlamingJulian said:


> Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch



Now you see that's easy for you to say and think, easy for you to do as well I bet but many people aren't flexible and all the stretching in the world will only make a moderate difference, age and injuries as well as different types of bodies come into it. _It's naïve of_ _you to get annoyed because you think someone is being sarcastic and they really aren't._ I can't stretch much due to my knees being damaged by far too much martial arts, horse riding and parachuting, to stretch makes them worse, I can do brilliant low kicks though.




FlamingJulian said:


> I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.




When you say good fighters what do you mean? Good at sparring, good in competitive fights, good at self defence? Do you mean points fighting, full contact, MMA, Muay Thai, K1 or able to thug it out 'on the street' ( or carpark)?


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Okay so since you train in Ninjutsu and much more skilled than me I'm sure you could beat me up easily. I'm not trying to say that I have decades of experience because that would be impossible. I'm just giving my opinions based on my knowledge that I currently have. I know that many of you guys think I'm just the average TKD guy who's going to say TKD is awesome but TBH I think JKD is much better. I put my opinions here for your guy's knowledge because I am looking to educate myself on this topic. I guess I should've just asked for opinions. Sorry.



It has nothing to do with anyone "beating you up", so I recommend getting that idea out of your head… it's really the least important aspect of anything here. The question remains exactly what your experience is. Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.



FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.



The question is a very valid one (what if someone lacks the flexibility), but your answer was that of a teenager (yeah, I know… hardly surprising!). What I mean by that is that, when you're young (as you are), your body is still highly malleable… you can simply stretch more, and have a reasonable expectation of some progress in most cases… however, what if that person is older, and has issues with their hips? Maybe they've had a hip replacement? Maybe they're just not that flexible naturally? Maybe there's a genetic reason? 

When taken in that light, it's more apparent that, while TKD might suit your preferences and personality, it is not automatically a good choice for everyone… and much of your assumptions in your original post were more about the limitations of your experience, combined with your personal preferences. Asking you the question was to get you to think beyond yourself… hopefully you will be able to do that from now on.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new here and some of the stuff that people were saying honestly made me think they made it to about..... Blue belt? Maybe. Someone (maybe you) asked "what if they lack flexibility to kick?" And I'm thinking to myself "Just stretch". So that's why I did that but I am sorry because I know you guys are good fighters just somewhat sarcastic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Just stretch" will never get some of us to high-kick range. That's a lesson learned through years of experience. Flexibility is not just about how long a muscle is (what can be effectively lengthened), but also about how the joints work, the connective tissue, etc. I could probably have stretched to be competent at those high kicks back in my 20's or 30's, but it would have taken so much time as to make it inefficient.

I think the point of the original question was that there's no one art that's right for everyone. Someone who doesn't have the flexibility for those high kicks will develop faster by seeking something they are well-suited to, unless they are young enough to gain flexibility quickly.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.



This.

Don't look for conflict and attack in most people's questions and responses. We challenge each other here, ask questions to understand who audiences are, and use that knowledge of their experience to help interpret their responses.

You are among friends.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You might want to think about the 'beating up bit', it's not how we think.
> Actually you don't know what we think, I think you are a new poster here so are being given some slack while you find your feet. That's it, nothing more.
> 
> 
> ...



Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand. If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions. Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys. What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now. 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> It has nothing to do with anyone "beating you up", so I recommend getting that idea out of your head… it's really the least important aspect of anything here. The question remains exactly what your experience is. Be assured, it's nothing to do with ridiculing you for not having 50 years under your 16 year old belt, it's more so we know what level to present our answers at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay, well I'm just going to admit that you're 100% correct on that statement. But I misunderstood because I'm new here and still don't really know a lot about the people on here. And when he asked that question about flexibility I thought he legitimately had a question because I am new here and I gave my opinion because anyone who here is probably opinion seeking.?.?.. But sorry I didn't mean to like get everyone worked up. 


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand.



No one was 'accusing' you, they were pointing out the obvious that you don't understand the subject because if you had you wouldn't have assumed the question was sarcastic and you wouldn't have answered 'stretch' in a dismissive way. There is no reason why you should understand the subject by the way, you aren't required to be an instant expert or even an expert, that comes with experience and being under good instruction. Just though have a think before deciding an answer is sarcastic just because it seems to you an easy answer and are mentally going 'doh' at us.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand. If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions. Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys. What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do wish "make millions" was an option.

No, you won't get "accused of trying to instruct people" when you answer a question here. You may (often will) get some disagreement with statements - it happens with all of us, so that's somethign bad not about you - but when you answer a question we understand the context.

The "fighting" definition is an important one, since there are many sport-oriented martial artists here, as well. To them, a "fight" might mean a match, and that's a different (overlapping) skill-set from self-defense. Depending upon the competition, it may be more or less indicative of one's ability to fight off an attacker (to keep the "fight" terminology). Knowing your definition of "fight" helps us make sure we're responding to what you meant, rather than what we thought you meant.

_You'll also find some folks here who get picky about the word "fight", asserting that fights don't happen in self-defense. I'm not in that crowd, but I thought I'd warn you about that ongoing debate over the definition of "fight"._


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> But sorry I didn't mean to like get everyone worked up.


LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> "Just stretch" will never get some of us to high-kick range. That's a lesson learned through years of experience. Flexibility is not just about how long a muscle is (what can be effectively lengthened), but also about how the joints work, the connective tissue, etc. I could probably have stretched to be competent at those high kicks back in my 20's or 30's, but it would have taken so much time as to make it inefficient.
> 
> I think the point of the original question was that there's no one art that's right for everyone. Someone who doesn't have the flexibility for those high kicks will develop faster by seeking something they are well-suited to, unless they are young enough to gain flexibility quickly.



That is true that there is no right art for everyone. I was generally talking about people who could do hand strikes and some kicks. But yes I agree with you now that I understand the point you're making. 


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well, yes you have a good point but anytime someone asks "What if they lack flexibility?" And then i answer and get accused of trying to instruct people which I still don't understand.



To help you out there, you've come along to an established community, where the majority of the membership have been here for years, and we all know each other fairly well (our strengths, weaknesses, training backgrounds, personalities, and more). We know who is reliable in terms of information, and who is more, shall we say… questionable. And many of us are well and truly experienced in, at the very least, our own arts. As I indicated earlier, I'm three decades deep in my training… and I'm far from the longest-serving practitioner here. 

So, when someone comes along and starts a post by telling us how many types of "good" martial artists there are, followed by an essay on what makes someone a good fighter, and what they should do to be one ("do a striking art") in an informative manner, with the air of being a thought out take from someone who's experience should be listened to and given weight, we're going to want to know who it's from. And, whether intended or not, by presenting in that way, you're aiming to be informative… or educational. Which is why you are seen as trying to instruct (educate) the membership here. 



FlamingJulian said:


> If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions.



HA!!!!

No.



FlamingJulian said:


> Honestly I think all you guys are cool and I don't have a problem with you guys.



Cool. Can you go back and either make an introduction thread, or answer the questions as to your background then? Just so we know something about you, other than the fact that you're 16 years old?



FlamingJulian said:


> What I mean by good fighters is literally good fighters. Meaning you can defend your self; rather you show can off those skills in competition is debatable, I don't really believe in competition too much right now.



Okay, so that's your context. Remember that others will have different contexts.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I do wish "make millions" was an option.
> 
> No, you won't get "accused of trying to instruct people" when you answer a question here. You may (often will) get some disagreement with statements - it happens with all of us, so that's somethign bad not about you - but when you answer a question we understand the context.
> 
> ...



Right I understand. I am just new to this whole thing and didn't really understand that everyone (most) people on here is extremely skilled way beyond my level. 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.



Okey, good. I'm honestly very confused right now because I'm just reading and I can't hear so it's not like I can pick up on the tone in your voice or anything so I wouldn't know


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> LOL, no we aren't worked up, it would need a huge lot more than that to work us up, being worked up takes energy we like to spend doing other things.


@Flaming-Julian Some of us enjoy debates - both correcting and being corrected, because we learn from them - so we can get energetic when we find someone worth engaging with. That energy is a compliment to you - you immediately seemed worth discussing with. Not everyone does, and frankly some don't respond as well to conflict as you seem to.

Because of your lack of experience (remember, we all were there at one point, so that's not a bad thing), you'll likely have some notions we want to help you correct. That's the same thing (hopefully) your instructor is doing with your techniques. This is a great place to learn and share with others. You will find some who are just starting in MA, some who are around your level, some a bit ahead of you, some with decades of experience, and then the Really Old Guys™ (you know who you are ) who worked out with people like Bill Wallace.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Right I understand. I am just new to this whole thing and didn't really understand that everyone (most) people on here is extremely skilled way beyond my level.



It's not about the skill level, it's more about the experience and education levels… but again, the important thing is to understand your own level… we're happy to have you here… and, hopefully, if you can engage well, you're going to learn a lot. The internet is fantastic for sharing information, so you have access to a hell of a lot more information than any of us had at your stage… however it is also true that it's very easy to get a highly false sense of how much you genuinely know.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> To help you out there, you've come along to an established community, where the majority of the membership have been here for years, and we all know each other fairly well (our strengths, weaknesses, training backgrounds, personalities, and more). We know who is reliable in terms of information, and who is more, shall we say… questionable. And many of us are well and truly experienced in, at the very least, our own arts. As I indicated earlier, I'm three decades deep in my training… and I'm far from the longest-serving practitioner here.
> 
> So, when someone comes along and starts a post by telling us how many types of "good" martial artists there are, followed by an essay on what makes someone a good fighter, and what they should do to be one ("do a striking art") in an informative manner, with the air of being a thought out take from someone who's experience should be listened to and given weight, we're going to want to know who it's from. And, whether intended or not, by presenting in that way, you're aiming to be informative… or educational. Which is why you are seen as trying to instruct (educate) the membership here.
> 
> ...



Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them. 


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## Chris Parker (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them.



Cool, I look forward to meeting you there.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Okay well I'll make an introduction thread so you guys can know who I am. And sorry that I came off as trying to be informative because I was honestly just writing down my thoughts and posting them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One of the things Martial Talk's forum provides is a place to learn something most of us didn't have to learn unless we were in a science-based program in school at some point: how to make statements that are properly backed by evidence (whether experiential or scientific) and how to challenge those kinds of statements.

It's a great place to challenge your own thinking, learn how others think, and explore common assumptions.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No ones upset but you are talking bad about a lot of martial arts and then stating you know a lot about one because you've read about it on wikipidea...so yeah people here will call you out on stuff like that because you may have read about it but that means nothing. Unless you've actually trained it you really don't know anything not an insult but just the truth have a nice day


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I think it's that attitude some people grow up in bad neighbourhoods and constantly fighting and their born into fighting so they're better than those who aren't. Which I think is rubbish just because you throw your hands around against idiots doesn't make you a good fighter


I think it's more along the lines of "You can't teach heart."  Which I think is true to some extent.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No ones upset but you are talking bad about a lot of martial arts and then stating you know a lot about one because you've read about it on wikipidea...so yeah people here will call you out on stuff like that because you may have read about it but that means nothing. Unless you've actually trained it you really don't know anything not an insult but just the truth have a nice day



Okay I'm sorry. I'm going to be straight up: I was wrong. Please take the time to read my introduction.  Thnx 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Steve said:


> I think it's more along the lines of "You can't teach heart."  Which I think is true to some extent.



Good point 


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## frank raud (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Under Professional Karate Association rules, there is a requirement for a minimum of 8 kicks per round, you will be penalised if you do less. If it is only kicking, why do they stipulate a minimum amount of kicks per round?


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Under Professional Karate Association rules, there is a requirement for a minimum of 8 kicks per round, you will be penalised if you do less. If it is only kicking, why do they stipulate a minimum amount of kicks per round?



I said mostly kicking. But yeah I was wrong. Just don't know how to edit my post. 


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> I said mostly kicking. But yeah I was wrong. Just don't know how to edit my post.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can only edit your posts for a limited time.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Steve said:


> You can only edit your posts for a limited time.



Okay I'll try to. 


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Okey, good. I'm honestly very confused right now because I'm just reading and I can't hear so it's not like I can pick up on the tone in your voice or anything so I wouldn't know
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Ok that's easy, I sound like M ( the Dame Judy Dench one but 20 years younger) from James Bond and  all you have to remember is that I'm always right ( that's a joke, I'm 99% right...that's a joke too ) oh and I have the British sense of humour! .


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Steve said:


> I think it's more along the lines of "You can't teach heart."  Which I think is true to some extent.


That is true, however it can be learned/developed. Some folks are simply afraid of violence at any level. This can be cured by them learning that getting hit isn't nearly as bad as they think. This, I think, is part of that "heart" that can be developed.

Also, the confidence most folks get from developing skill and being competent changes motivation. That may be another part of "heart" that can be learned.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Ok that's easy, I sound like M ( the Dame Judy Dench one but 20 years younger) from James Bond and  all you have to remember is that I'm always right ( that's a joke, I'm 99% right...that's a joke too ) oh and I have the British sense of humour! .



Still confused lol! 


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 22, 2016)

OP  Don't feel bad about the pile on.  I had to post a crap load of my videos during my first month of being new at MartialTalk. lol.   Granted I didn't make the statements that you made, I still got a good thrashing here lol.


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## frank raud (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> I said mostly kicking. But yeah I was wrong. Just don't know how to edit my post.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight.
  The no other real techniques part is what caught my eye. My kickboxing instructor, Jean-Yves Thériault (kickboxer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , won by knockouts from both hands and both feet in a professional career that lasted more than 15 years.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Ok that's easy, I sound like M ( the Dame Judy Dench one but 20 years younger) from James Bond and  all you have to remember is that I'm always right ( that's a joke, I'm 99% right...that's a joke too ) oh and I have the British sense of humour! .


Great, now I'll be picturing Dame Dench every time I read your posts - and imagining her scrabbling on the ground in a gym.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> who worked out with people like Bill Wallace.



He's still coming across here doing seminars!

I was 16 once, not sure I'd like to be again but dear me I'd like a nice 25 year old body........


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

frank raud said:


> Kick boxing is mostly kicking with no other real techniques that can be used in a fight.
> The no other real techniques part is what caught my eye. My kickboxing instructor, Jean-Yves Thériault (kickboxer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , won by knockouts from both hands and both feet in a professional career that lasted more than 15 years.



You're right. I just went off of what my Friend told me who's a kick boxer but assuming he's wrong I'll try to edit my post. Sorry 


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I'd like a nice 25 year old body........



My wife punches me in the shoulder when I say that, for some reason.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> That is true, however it can be learned/developed. Some folks are simply afraid of violence at any level. This can be cured by them learning that getting hit isn't nearly as bad as they think. This, I think, is part of that "heart" that can be developed.
> 
> Also, the confidence most folks get from developing skill and being competent changes motivation. That may be another part of "heart" that can be learned.


Totally agree that it can be developed, but everyone has tendencies.  Some people are analytical, some are creative, some are stubborn or pugnacious.   You can take someone who isn't inherently creative (which can be for many reasons) and give them tools to help them be MORE creative.  In the same way, you can teach someone who is on the autism spectrum to be MORE social. 

In much the same way, you can cultivate "heart."  But there are some people who just have it, and in a battle of wills, where all other things are roughly equal, they will usually come out on top.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> My wife punches me in the shoulder when I say that, for some reason.


My marriage has a 25 year old body, even if I don't.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> My wife punches me in the shoulder when I say that, for some reason.



Knew you'd get it......


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> If you don't believe I'm a martial artist then I'm not going to sit here and debate with you. I could take some videos of me doing moves and DM them to you tho. I'm 16 yrs old so I haven't been training for decades. But my Master has been. And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well. I'm just giving my opinions but if you don't wanna read them nobody is making you. It's called free will.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





FlamingJulian said:


> Well I'm new to this whole app and this forum and so far everyone is getting upset instead of just having a conversation. But my cousin takes Ninjutsu and he is one of my training patterns so a lot of my knowledge is very good. Everyone seems to assume I am bashing other arts and just love Taekwondo when in fact I know that a Jeet Kune Do guy would probably get the best of me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nobody said you don't train and no one is upset, the statement was Mr. Parker has experience in ninjutsu so telling to go look at wikipedia is silly, I mean did you see his signature? He has lots of experience and if you click those links you will see it.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Nobody said you don't train and no one is upset, the statement was Mr. Parker has experience in ninjutsu so telling to go look at wikipedia is silly, I mean did you see his signature? He has lots of experience and if you click those links you will see it.



No I'm new here. Don't know to to check that. 


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No ones upset but you are talking bad about a lot of martial arts and then stating you know a lot about one because you've read about it on wikipidea...so yeah people here will call you out on stuff like that because you may have read about it but that means nothing. Unless you've actually trained it you really don't know anything not an insult but just the truth have a nice day



I am thankful he didn't use the classic "I can't find any YT videos showing good (insert fighting style) fighters so it must be horrible."


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I am thankful he didn't use the classic "I can't find any YT videos showing good (insert fighting style) fighters so it must be horrible."



Lol wow 


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol wow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No that wasnt aimed at you. There's another poster here who's not done a days training in his life but for the last 6 months or whatever he's been posting stupid questions and acting like he knows everything because he watches videos and insults other instructors and based his knowledge off movies. That's what ironbear was referencing he wasnt saying anything against you. You're nothing like that at least you train. Also don't take things personally here it's all about learning and since there's someone who trains pretty much every style on this board there's going to be lots of different opinions. I read a quote once "put a bunch of people from different religions in a room and they'll all get along great until religion is bought up" same thing with martial arts


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol wow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You haven't met those people yet lol. We have a couple as well as the 'my style is best all others are pants' and 'wow I'm sooo good' ones. All part of life's rich tapestry.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You haven't met those people yet lol. We have a couple as well as the 'my style is best all others are pants' and 'wow I'm sooo good' ones. All part of life's rich tapestry.



Lol. What an interesting app!?! 


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> OP  Don't feel bad about the pile on.  I had to post a crap load of my videos during my first month of being new at MartialTalk. lol.   Granted I didn't make the statements that you made, I still got a good thrashing here lol.





FlamingJulian said:


> Lol wow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



you'd be surprised about how many people (cough cough) silat and wing chun thread. Anyway welcome to MT, don't worry about getting dog piled on, when it happens it more than likely because of something you did that was dumb, take it as a learning tool. I do dumb things all the time and people here help me realize it, that helps me become a better martial artist and better person in general.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol. What an interesting app!?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



We warn you when the dirty jokes turn up though lol.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No that wasnt aimed at you. There's another poster here who's not done a days training in his life but for the last 6 months or whatever he's been posting stupid questions and acting like he knows everything because he watches videos and insults other instructors and based his knowledge off movies. That's what ironbear was referencing he wasnt saying anything against you. You're nothing like that at least you train.



Ohhhhh okay. And that's legitimately funny that someone thinks they can not train and know anything lol.[emoji56]


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> you'd be surprised about how many people (cough cough) silat and wing chun thread. Anyway welcome to MT, don't worry about getting dog piled on, when it happens it more than likely because of something you did that was dumb, take it as a learning tool. I do dumb things all the time and people here help me realize it, that helps me become a better martial artist and better person in general.



Thanks! and I think you are right. Seems like an attitude I should perhaps work on. 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> We warn you when the dirty jokes turn up though lol.



Lol. Nothing wrong with some dirty jokes. Haha


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Ohhhhh okay. And that's legitimately funny that someone thinks they can not train and know anything lol.[emoji56]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Wait until you get out into the working world! this is a good place to get used to all sorts of people.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Ohhhhh okay. And that's legitimately funny that someone thinks they can not train and know anything lol.[emoji56]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh yeah it is funny but it's very tiring after a while look at the part where it has most popular threads it's kehcorpz the user and yeah likes been said he refuses to actually go to class and got upset because he emailed an instructor and basically told him his style doesn't work while asking him to train him and got upset when the instructor said no


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Oh yeah it is funny but it's very tiring after a while look at the part where it has most popular threads it's kehcorpz the user and yeah likes been said he refuses to actually go to class and got upset because he emailed an instructor and basically told him his style doesn't work while asking him to train him and got upset when the instructor said no



Dang lol. Does he try to pretend like he knows martial arts? Or is he stupid enough to to be straight up about not knowing anything and post on here? and I would look but I have no clue how lol. 


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Oh yeah it is funny but it's very tiring after a while look at the part where it has most popular threads it's kehcorpz the user and yeah likes been said he refuses to actually go to class and got upset because he emailed an instructor and basically told him his style doesn't work while asking him to train him and got upset when the instructor said no



Kehcorpz, : According to YouTube your style is ****! Want to train me?

Instructor: No.

Kehcorpz: WHYYYYYYY!!!!????? You charlatan you! You are just in it for the money! You greedy dirty man you!


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Dang lol. Does he try to pretend like he knows martial arts? Or is he stupid enough to to be straight up about not knowing anything and post on here? and I would look but I have no clue how lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No he claims to know nothing and looking for training but then talks about all the stuff he's seen online and says he has basic understanding because of it and just go on the main forum and go to most popular posts there's a few of his stuff there then look on his profile if you want to see more


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Dang lol. Does he try to pretend like he knows martial arts? Or is he stupid enough to to be straight up about not knowing anything and post on here? and I would look but I have no clue how lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes, he makes statements about martial arts styles purely based on what he has looked up on YouTube. He also said Judo sucks for self defense when he has zero experience with Judo.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Kehcorpz, : According to YouTube your style is ****! Want to train me?
> 
> Instructor: No.
> 
> Kehcorpz: WHYYYYYYY!!!!????? You charlatan you! You are just in it for the money! You greedy dirty man you!


Don't forget this one

"He goes on summer holidays and doesn't teach on Christmas Day he can't be a real instructor


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## Azulx (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Dang lol. Does he try to pretend like he knows martial arts? Or is he stupid enough to to be straight up about not knowing anything and post on here? and I would look but I have no clue how lol.



Just a small side note, I started participating in this forum a couple months ago. I literally just had a couple questions about some challenges my club was having. Turns out this is one of the coolest forums there is. it's incredibly informative and has helped me better myself as Martial Artist. I was very fortunate to stumble across Martial Talk.


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## Ironbear24 (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Don't forget this one
> 
> "He goes on summer holidays and doesn't teach on Christmas Day he can't be a real instructor



Gasp! What a monster! How dare he take time off on Christmas Day to spend time with his or her family! What a greedy SOB! His or her life should be entirely dedicated to teaching me! Afterall that is the very reason why they exist in the first place.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Yes, he makes statements about martial arts styles purely based on what he has looked up on YouTube. He also said Judo sucks for self defense when he has zero experience with Judo.



Lololol. That's funny. Before he says something sucks he should at least try it. That'd be like saying cheeseburgers suck when I never ate a cheeseburger. Lol


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Gasp! What a monster! How dare he take time off on Christmas Day to spend time with his or her family! What a greedy SOB! His or her life should be entirely dedicated to teaching me! Afterall that is the very reason why they exist in the first place.



Lmao!! Wtf ... Hahahahaha 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Just a small side note, I started participating in this forum a couple months ago. I literally just had a couple questions about some challenges my club was having. Turns out this is one of the coolest forums there is. it's incredibly informative and has helped me better myself as Martial Artist. I was very fortunate to stumble across Martial Talk.



That's awesome. Hope it helps me 


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lmao!! Wtf ... Hahahahaha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol yeah that's a bit exaggerating it but that's the basic way he is he you are here's some of his just for a taster lol but be warned after a few minutes reading its tempting to want to bang your head against something I think this here is way better than wing chun

Really discouraged!


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> No he claims to know nothing and looking for training but then talks about all the stuff he's seen online and says he has basic understanding because of it and just go on the main forum and go to most popular posts there's a few of his stuff there then look on his profile if you want to see more



Lol. Honestly he seems like a troll. Either that or an idiot. Kind of hard to judge a martial art if you're not trained in it haha, specially since he's trained in absolutely nothing 


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> You're right. I just went off of what my Friend told me who's a kick boxer but assuming he's wrong I'll try to edit my post. Sorry
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm a bit late to the party here, but you apologize too much 

You haven't done anything on here that needs an apology or an attitude change, many members on this site will generally just bombard the people who do not know Martial Talk's specific forum etiquette, which you have no way of knowing.

And this has been said, but bears repeating: don't worry about whether we are more skilled, experienced or could beat you in a sparring match or fight or whatever. Only concern for most of us is "does the person have valid experience in what they are talking about, or can I trust their information if they do not?", which is the cause of most of the questioning for you and almost any new person to the site, and it's the only attitude change that I would suggest you adopt, if you wish to.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Lol yeah that's a bit exaggerating it but that's the basic way he is he you are here's some of his just for a taster lol but be warned after a few minutes reading its tempting to want to bang your head against something I think this here is way better than wing chun
> 
> Really discouraged!



Wow I can't believe he would get on here lol. I got on this app to talk to other martial arts guys who could teach me a thing or two and then he's gonna get involved. Oh no[emoji87][emoji85]


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I'm a bit late to the party here, but you apologize too much
> 
> You haven't done anything on here that needs an apology or an attitude change, many members on this site will generally just bombard the people who do not know Martial Talk's specific forum etiquette, which you have no way of knowing.
> 
> And this has been said, but bears repeating: don't worry about whether we are more skilled, experienced or could beat you in a sparring match or fight or whatever. Only concern for most of us is "does the person have valid experience in what they are talking about, or can I trust their information if they do not?", which is the cause of most of the questioning for you and almost any new person to the site, and it's the only attitude change that I would suggest you adopt, if you wish to.



Okay thnx for letting me know. And yes I would like to change my attitude. Using this app a bit makes me want to become more knowledgable about martial arts and not close minded. I just try to be polite. 


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Wow I can't believe he would get on here lol. I got on this app to talk to other martial arts guys who could teach me a thing or two and then he's gonna get involved. Oh no[emoji87][emoji85]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah he doesn't really comment much on other people's stuff just stays in his own little bubble of his own threads. Just remember the name and laugh at his advice


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Nah he doesn't really comment much on other people's stuff just stays in his own little bubble of his own threads. Just remember the name and laugh at his advice



Lol. I definitely will. There is also this guy called "Martialartstutor" on YouTube and he bashes basically every martial art. Maybe do some of you guys will like him or hate him but he's not someone who's trained in many styles according to what he says. 


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## Azulx (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol. I definitely will. There is also this guy called "Martialartstutor" on YouTube and he bashes basically every martial art. Maybe do some of you guys will like him or hate him but he's not someone who's trained in many styles according to what he says



Those guys get made fun of a lot on here . haha


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol. I definitely will. There is also this guy called "Martialartstutor" on YouTube and he bashes basically every martial art. Maybe do some of you guys will like him or hate him but he's not someone who's trained in many styles according to what he says.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That guy is hilarious! Every once in a while when I am drunk, I will watch his videos and laugh. I may do that tonight actually..it's been a while.


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol. I definitely will. There is also this guy called "Martialartstutor" on YouTube and he bashes basically every martial art. Maybe do some of you guys will like him or hate him but he's not someone who's trained in many styles according to what he says.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the thing with the Internet everyone can say they're a grandmaster the beauty of this site is you try that here it's obvious very quickly who's real or who's talking sh*t


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

lol I figured as much. Can't stop laughing lol. I love to watch their videos for a good laugh[emoji81]


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> That guy is hilarious! Every once in a while when I am drunk, I will watch his videos and laugh. I may do that tonight actually..it's been a while.



Lol[emoji81][emoji81][emoji81] they are funny but idk how legit they are 


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> That's the thing with the Internet everyone can say they're a grandmaster the beauty of this site is you try that here it's obvious very quickly who's real or who's talking sh*t



Yeah that's true. People who lie about martial arts haven't done enough research. If someone told me they did Taekwondo I might say "What's your favorite form?" And if they don't even know then Ima be like "not legit" lol



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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Lol[emoji81][emoji81][emoji81] they are funny but idk how legit they are
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, he claims to be a 4th degree black belt in TKD (and I believe claims to teach it), while at the same time bashing TKD. That's really all I need to know credential-wise.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Well, he claims to be a 4th degree black belt in TKD (and I believe claims to teach it), while at the same time bashing TKD. That's really all I need to know credential-wise.



Haha. Right. That sounds fishy. He also complains about "useless forms" not understanding what they're intended to do. Now maybe I'm wrong I'm sure you know better than I do but to me forms teach how to block correctly. I asked my master "do you think forms could work in real combat" and he said "absolutely"


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## Kickboxer101 (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Haha. Right. That sounds fishy. He also complains about "useless forms" not understanding what they're intended to do. Now maybe I'm wrong I'm sure you know better than I do but to me forms teach how to block correctly. I asked my master "do you think forms could work in real combat" and he said "absolutely"
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To me forms are like shaddow boxing you probably won't use those exact moves in that order but it's a way to practice putting things together


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> To me forms are like shaddow boxing you probably won't use those exact moves in that order but it's a way to practice putting things together



Yeah that's kind of what I'm saying. And I think it helps build muscle memory. At least for me I think it did. Me and my brother are good training partners and we punch and kick each other constantly and we both have an instant block reflex. I'm guessing it's forms but I wouldn't know yet. 


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Haha. Right. That sounds fishy. He also complains about "useless forms" not understanding what they're intended to do. Now maybe I'm wrong I'm sure you know better than I do but to me forms teach how to block correctly. I asked my master "do you think forms could work in real combat" and he said "absolutely"
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Forms do a lot, including teaching how to block, and are very far from useless. I'm heading out now, but later I'll find one of the threads started by Bill Mattocks which goes into detail about how useful they can be.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Forms do a lot, including teaching how to block, and are very far from useless. I'm heading out now, but later I'll find one of the threads started by Bill Mattocks which goes into detail about how useful they can be.



Alright. Talk another time. ;-)


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 22, 2016)

FlamingJulian said:


> Also I'm not just a TKD fighter, I know other fighting styles myself





FlamingJulian said:


> I know a lot about Ninjutsu. You can read up on a Wikipedia about this.





FlamingJulian said:


> And Many family members have taught me their techniques as well.



Just to help with clear communication, here's some suggestions as to how someone on this forum might describe their familiarity with different arts. I'll use myself as an example.

"I'm reasonably _expert_ in BJJ" = I've been training in the art for about 20 years, teaching for about 5. Black belt. Over 5000 hours training on the mats plus hundreds of hours studying and researching off the mats.

"I'm reasonably _experienced_ in Muay Thai" = Over 2000 hours of training spread out over time, with about 10 years where I was training consistently.

"I have a_ solid foundation_ in Boxing and Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" = 100s of hours training and enough knowledge and skill to introduce someone to the basics of the art, but far from an expert.

"I have _some foundation_ in Kali" = Over 100 hours worth of training and some usable skills, but really just scratching the surface of the art.

"I'm _training_ in XYZ" = Can describe anything from Capoeira (which I've been doing for 3 weeks) to Wing Tsun (which I've been doing for 6 months) to BJJ (which I've been doing for 20 years). Makes no claims beyond the fact that I am currently involved in the art.

"I've _been exposed to_ Silat" = Gone to a seminar or two, watched videos, and talked to or shared techniques with friends who train. Have some general impressions of the art, but nothing beyond that.

"I've _read about_ Kalaripayat" = I've looked at the commonly available information written on the subject, but have no first-hand experience to judge the accuracy of what I've read.

This sort of approach will make it much more clear what level of expertise you are claiming in the subject being discussed.



FlamingJulian said:


> I'm sure you could beat me up easily



No one here is really concerned about which forum members could beat each other up. Most of us are pretty peaceable folk. Also, most of us do our best to avoid a fair fight if a confrontation is unavoidable. 



FlamingJulian said:


> If I was an expert in martial arts I'm pretty sure I would open up a school and make millions.


Man, I wish that were the way it worked.



FlamingJulian said:


> No I'm new here. Don't know to to check that.


Check out any of Chris's posts, down at the bottom underneath "With Respect, Chris Parker". You'll see links to Ninjutsu Australia - Welcome To Ninjutsu.... and a couple of other sites.


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## Tez3 (Aug 22, 2016)

I'd suggest not talking about another poster, it's one thing to post on his threads but quite another to bad mouth him on another thread he may not see. It's talking and laughing at him behind his back without him having a chance to defend himself.


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I'd suggest not talking about another poster, it's one thing to post on his threads but quite another to bad mouth him on another thread he may not see. It's talking and laughing at him behind his back without him having a chance to defend himself.



True 


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## Grenadier (Aug 22, 2016)

*Admin's Note:*

Please keep this discussion about the subject matter at hand.  While criticisms of someone's technique or lineage can be done in a civil manner, attempts at fraudbusting and / or art bashing will be dealt with the appropriate disciplinary method.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 22, 2016)

Azulx said:


> Just a small side note, I started participating in this forum a couple months ago. I literally just had a couple questions about some challenges my club was having. Turns out this is one of the coolest forums there is. it's incredibly informative and has helped me better myself as Martial Artist. I was very fortunate to stumble across Martial Talk.


You know, I was tempted to click on "dislike" or "disagree" on that one, just to see what reaction I'd get.


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## Tames D (Aug 22, 2016)

There was a couple things I wanted to say, but I lost my train of thought when the thread took a weird turn by bashing another member of the forum. And ... I kinda lost interest


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## FlamingJulian (Aug 22, 2016)

Jenna said:


> Hey welcome to MT. I enjoyed reading your post. Tell me.. do you think people who learn a non-striking art - and there are many styles as I am sure you are aware - are wrong-minded to do so? Would they be better learning as you say a few moves of a striking art. If so does that mean their own non-striking art is insufficient?



No everyone can learn what they want. I've been schooled up a bit since I posted this actually and I regret posting it now. Anyway I don't think learning a few moves is enough. Anyone can go on YouTube a learn a few kicks and a few punches. I think one should learn the fundamentals of an art which I am trying to do myself. 


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## Red Sun (Aug 22, 2016)

"Being a good fighter: In my opinion I think either you're a fighter or you're not."

I am smaller and weaker than most of my training partners. I've they close on me, i'm basically screwed. I lack the mental fortitude to keep a cool head and evade punches to the face.

Here's my basic gameplan:
At the start of the round, i use 1 jab and retreat.
If the intensity goes up, i punch my way into a clinch.
If i start getting hit, i breaststroke my way into a clinch.
At the end of the round, i try to throw a couple of body punches.
And then i clinch.

Id argue that im a crappy boxer, but a vaguely decent strategist. Does that make me a good or bad fighter, or just me?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 22, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Forms do a lot, including teaching how to block, and are very far from useless. I'm heading out now, but later I'll find one of the threads started by Bill Mattocks which goes into detail about how useful they can be.


Okay, here are a couple threads focused around kata/bunkai. Interesting reads and discussions IMO. (sorry about how off course this is going, but the thread was already off course so I don't feel too bad). All of them are from the last couple months, as those are what I remember, but there are plenty more threads just like these if you look to the search history.

This one goes into what a kata is:
Deep Kata

This one does the same as the above, but also talks about, as the topic says, ways to improve kata/increase understanding
How to improve in Kata ?

The video at the start of this one is just a cool way to see direct bunkai.
It's all the same

I feel like this one's good to read, but fair warning: it's a bit of a mess.
kata?


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