# Run away!!!



## Satt (Oct 18, 2005)

I have noticed quite a few references to "running away" being a distinguished part of this art. I was just curious how many of you feel that you would run away in a physical confrontation. Would you choose to stay and fight or run as a first instinct?


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## Andrew Green (Oct 18, 2005)

Well, all that comes to mind is....

_ Brave Sir Robin ran away.
 Bravely ran away, away!
 When danger reared its ugly head, 
 He bravely turned his tail and fled.
 Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
 And gallantly he chickened out.
 Bravely taking to his feet
 He beat a very brave retreat,
 Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!

__ He is packing it in and packing it up
 And sneaking away and buggering up
 And chickening out and pissing off home,
 Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.._


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## mantis (Oct 18, 2005)

it's hard to answer
i voted run away
which would be in case of a serious threat, like i feel someone is following me or something.. 
but say, my friend is in trouble i would pick the last choice, beat the crap out of the person and walk home. which reminds me of last year when some guy attacked my dad in front of me, i grabbed a stick and started beating the guy LOL


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## Cryozombie (Oct 18, 2005)

I voted try to resolve with words, but it totaly depends.

 I can see the merit in running, but somtimes you just cant.

 if you cant flee, Id say de-escalate.  If you cant de-escalate, fight, until you can flee, or, if you cannot then until you dont need to flee... but then leave as quickly as you can.


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## Shaolinwind (Oct 19, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I have noticed quite a few references to "running away" being a distinguished part of this art. I was just curious how many of you feel that you would run away in a physical confrontation. Would you choose to stay and fight or run as a first instinct?


I'm interested in what your answer to the poll was, and why?


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## Shaolinwind (Oct 19, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I have noticed quite a few references to "running away" being a distinguished part of this art. I was just curious how many of you feel that you would run away in a physical confrontation. Would you choose to stay and fight or run as a first instinct?


I chose fight 'till you can run.  I am assuming that by physical confrontation you mean that I am attacked.    I certainly wouldn't turn my back to flying fists, I'd prefer them in my face where I am better equipped to control them before making my escape.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Oct 19, 2005)

I live in the L.A. area, and like in many urban areas, a confrontation doesn't just involve physically scrapping, but also it may involve a thug shooting a firearm at you. What are you going to do if you're an excellent martial artist, and someone confronts you? In the back of one's mind here I'm sure is the thought of "is this punk *** strapped with a gun". What are you going to do?  :idunno:


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## Bigshadow (Oct 19, 2005)

I didn't vote, because it would depend on the situation.  All of the above seem to support a "Confrontation" or "Match" where two people would square off.  I think in many instances the attack can happen without any foreknowledge and one will have to act and not think.  So where does that fit in?


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 19, 2005)

Monday night on my way to do some Kenpo oddly enough some dip**** just moved into the neighborhood. Couldn't have been there a week yet. Anyhow there's 2 sharp curves to get out of our place. He was outside with a couple of friends when I was driving by. Curves go left then immediately right. So I had to look over at him to make sure I wasn't going to hit him or his car sitting almost on the road especially since it's one car length wide. The biggest guy starts yelling at me for staring at him. At this point he start to run out in the road yelling profane words and throwing his arms out. I stopped the car and looked at him in my rear view mirror laughing at him. My first initial thought was to slam it in reverse and run his stupid *** over. I hung my head out the window listening to him still yelling when I looked at him and said "You're an idiot for wanting to fight and have no idea what problems going off half cocked can get you in". I drove off to the studio and he was still in the road with his arms up wanting to fight.
What an idiot.


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## Kenpobldr (Oct 19, 2005)

I voted to resolve with words. Then if this idividual will not stop be prepared to defend yourself. Should they have a weapon and I am not backed in to a corner then run like Forest Gump.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Oct 19, 2005)

I say try to resolve peacefully.  If that fails, let the other guy take the first swing, best him and walk home.


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## kenpo0324 (Oct 19, 2005)

Kenpobldr said:
			
		

> I voted to resolve with words. Then if this idividual will not stop be prepared to defend yourself. Should they have a weapon and I am not backed in to a corner then run like Forest Gump.


I agree with Kenpobldr on this matter..


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## Satt (Oct 19, 2005)

I'm sorry everyone. As usual I didn't explain myself well enough. In "Ninjutsu", I am told running away is a good thing to do. What I was asking is if some person is yelling and shoving you and so on... then what would you do??? I am not talking about weapons or anything. What I meant by talking was trying to deescalate by talking. I chose that by the way. I just wanted to know what would be your first instinct in that kind of situation. Sorry for being unclear.


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## Kenpobldr (Oct 19, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I'm sorry everyone. As usual I didn't explain myself well enough. In "Ninjutsu", I am told running away is a good thing to do. What I was asking is if some person is yelling and shoving you and so on... then what would you do??? I am not talking about weapons or anything. What I meant by talking was trying to deescalate by talking. I chose that by the way. I just wanted to know what would be your first instinct in that kind of situation. Sorry for being unclear.


Well if they are trying to shove me then knock the ever living **** out of them.


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## Bigshadow (Oct 19, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I'm sorry everyone. As usual I didn't explain myself well enough. In "Ninjutsu", I am told running away is a good thing to do. What I was asking is if some person is yelling and shoving you and so on... then what would you do??? I am not talking about weapons or anything. What I meant by talking was trying to deescalate by talking. I chose that by the way. I just wanted to know what would be your first instinct in that kind of situation. Sorry for being unclear.


  Sounds like in the situation, someone was taunting you or "Challenging" you.  Sounds like you did the right thing.


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## Loki (Oct 19, 2005)

I'd be more afraid of a knife being pulled out, actually.

 My instructor told me that during the times he had to be violent, he always attacked first. I think when the situation escalates beyond a certain point (exactly which point seems futile to define), fight like hell and get away as soon as you can.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Oct 20, 2005)

Kenpobldr said:
			
		

> I voted to resolve with words. Then if this idividual will not stop be prepared to defend yourself. Should they have a weapon and I am not backed in to a corner then run like Forest Gump.



Yup, pretty much... I agree, you have to assess the situation, then make the decison to negotate, fight back or flee....  :mst:


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## Don Roley (Oct 20, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I'm sorry everyone. As usual I didn't explain myself well enough. In "Ninjutsu", I am told running away is a good thing to do. What I was asking is if some person is yelling and shoving you and so on... then what would you do??? I am not talking about weapons or anything. What I meant by talking was trying to deescalate by talking. I chose that by the way. I just wanted to know what would be your first instinct in that kind of situation. Sorry for being unclear.



Is there a reason why you have to try to deescalate the situation? You can't say, "I don't want a fight, I'm leaving" and let the guy think he pushed you around? And if you announce (loudly) your willingness to leave and start for the door, _then_ when the police ask who was responsible for the fight the witnesses can say that you tried to get away and the other guy chased you. If he does not, you get home in one piece.

I know a guy who walked into a bar in Hong Kong only to be accosted by a guy who screamed "You're a (censored) POM aren't you? I hate (censored) POMs!!!" A minute later, the guy charged him and tried to brain him with a  bar stool. When he told me the story I asked "when he screamed at you the second you walked in the door, why the heck didn't you turn around, walk out the door and tell the guy there that you were leaving because you did not like the treatment by other customers." He did not give me a very good answer IMO.

It is not like most of us _need_ to settle things and can't leave. We don't have to stay at a certain bar, don't have to remain silent and not go to those in charge. Let them take care of the guy.


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## Cryozombie (Oct 20, 2005)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Is there a reason why you have to try to deescalate the situation? You can't say, "I don't want a fight, I'm leaving" and let the guy think he pushed you around?


 I see that as de-escalation.


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## Don Roley (Oct 20, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I see that as de-escalation.



I think that de-escalation is when you do not try to get away, but instead try to settle the problem without violence or leaving. If you are a bouncer, police officer, employee, Nurse in a hospital for the criminally violent insane, I think you have a need to try to stay around and talk the guy down.

Otherwise, get the heck out of there.


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## Deaf (Oct 21, 2005)

I agree... just leave.  Don't try to talk and resolve the problem or de-esculate the situation.  That is what shrinks are for!  

Plus with my luck, being that I'm deaf, I'll probably say the wrong thing because I couldn't hear what the heck the jackasses were saying! 

~Deaf~


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## hardheadjarhead (Oct 21, 2005)

I didn't vote.

The options are all part of a continuum of de-escalization/escalization.  One does what one needs to do at the moment.  If talking will work, talk.  If fighting is the only option because flight isn't possible, fight.

One might note that de-escalization can give the OTHER guy a chance to save face and back away from the situation.

The situation dictates the response



Regards,


Steve


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## arnisador (Nov 26, 2005)

_Getting awqay_ is always a good idea. How to do that? If possible, run.


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## Bigshadow (Nov 27, 2005)

I agree with HardheadJarhead!  I didn't vote either.


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## Sarah (Nov 28, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with running away, it does not make you a wimp or anything!

You do what you need to do in the situation to protect yourself, if you can aviod getting into a fight that is the best way to go.

Besides you just never know how well trained the other person is, weapons or no weapons!


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## rutherford (Nov 28, 2005)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> I think that de-escalation is when you do not try to get away, but instead try to settle the problem without violence or leaving. If you are a bouncer, police officer, employee, Nurse in a hospital for the criminally violent insane, I think you have a need to try to stay around and talk the guy down.
> 
> Otherwise, get the heck out of there.


 
I know I read these posts shortly after you first wrote them, but things clicked in a bit better this time around.

I think the problem is that it's hard on the ego.  You know you're in the right - and you want to show it, prove it, and can't understand why the other guy Just Doesn't Get It.  

Thank you, Don.


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## Don Roley (Dec 17, 2005)

rutherford said:
			
		

> I think the problem is that it's hard on the ego.  You know you're in the right - and you want to show it, prove it, and can't understand why the other guy Just Doesn't Get It.



Oh, don't I know it!!!!!!

This is a problem we men seem to face. Females get it too, but they are not burdoned by some of the stupid hormones we have. We do not want to walk away. We want to rip the head off of the threat to our manhood and eat them!!!! We can tell ourselves that we are doing the right, smart thing by walking away from a guy taunting us in a bar, trying to start a fight. But in the back of our minds is a voice wondering if people will actually think we are cowards for doing the smart thing.

I chanced on a small solution a long time ago. I had a situation where some idiotic drunk tried to come at me on the street and I just took off. I called the teacher I was studying Bujinkan under at the time when I got home and he praised me and talked about how getting home in one peice is the whole goal of what we do. And he pointed out repeatedly that I had done just that without any bruises or legal trouble.

Have done it once, I found it easier to walk away from potential fights. I always try to call friends who also study the art afterwards to talk about it and get some support for my ego. It seems to work and it is not as hard to make the choice to get the heck out of there. Maybe it has to do with my growing age and maturity, but I really think that people should make a point of calling someone from their dojo after they walk or run away from a fight.


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## Satt (Dec 18, 2005)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> We want to rip the head off of the threat to our manhood and eat them!!!!


 
:burp: Now THAT'S what i'm talking about!!! LOL


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## Shogun (Dec 21, 2005)

The poll is a little too open ended. if I was confronted, and it started getting violent, fighting until I can get away might be the best approach. but in all honesty, if someone were to hurt my family and THEN confront me...I would fight them until their is nothing left to fight. until the movement ceased. so it really (as all questions) depends. I've tried straying away from "well, what are the detail" type of thinking because they are always gonna be different. creativity is your enemy.


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## Connovar (Dec 26, 2005)

I went for the verbal de-escalation. Generally if he is close enough that physical violence is possible than unless your are very quick and fast your are turning your back on the opponent. Most conflicts can be stopped with words. If he advances despite your telling him to stop then strking first is legally and morally legitimate but make sure your verbal intentions are load and clear to have him back off. The only exception for running is if he is armed and your are not or if there are multiples and your are not armed. 

Since I am very often with my wife, runnng also is not an option

My recommendations would be if you legally can get a CCW then get one. There are many lightwt hammerless snubbies that you can easily drop into pocket for use against the armed opponent or multiple opponents. Generally if the person is much larger, is armed or there are multiples the use of a weapon is legal. However if your live in the Peoples Republic of California or in Europe then a firearm is probably not a doable option


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## rutherford (Dec 26, 2005)

The Peoples Republic of California?  What land are you from?


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## Connovar (Dec 26, 2005)

Idaho! We are getting lots of refugees from  the PRC lately because of its high crime and tax rates! Virtually every long arm I own would be illegal in California. I just found out the other day that the "stinger" I carry on my key ring is now illegal and isnt supposed to be taken across the borders into the PRC! Few people can get CCW's in California. In San Francisco they banned the ownership of handguns in SF even though its murder rate is rising. I could go on and on. I am just glad I live where I do and can enjoy all the freedoms of our constitution and not just some of them.


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## Don Roley (Dec 29, 2005)

Connovar said:
			
		

> My recommendations would be if you legally can get a CCW then get one.



Whoah!!!!!!!

I am all for CCWs and the second amendment. But I see a troubling trend in what you write.

You seem to be trying to convince yourself that you just _can't_ get away from the guy and preparing for battle. It kind of reminds me of the comments by Marc MacYoung describing a rattlesnake as a critter so stupid it can be 'cornered' in the middle of a open desert.

Rutherford and I just discussed how we men do not like to swallow our pride and back down. We try to find excuses to cover up the basic fact that we are protecting our manhood and not our life. People on th sidelines can tell that it is all over ego, but yet we are soooooo convinced that we are sticking around for a good reason.

So all the scenarios about being attacked while walking away, being with family, sounds like you are trying to justify not swallowing pride.

There are ways of moving away from someone without dropping your guard. We had an entire thread about hoko no kamae in this vein. Spouses can be coached on what to do if there is a situation that may turn violent. You can start to walk away from a situation. If they chase you, then you can deal with it from there as appropriate. But you talk to any street cop or defense lawyer about how it looks when someone does not make any move to get away from a screaming match and later pulls out a lethal weapon.

If you carry a lethal weapon, you have a _greater_ responsibility to try to get the hell out of there at the earliest chance. You up the stakes straight to the kill or be killed stage because you have introduced the possibility of your weapon being taken off of you and used. Is it worth taking that chance and reacting in an appropriate manner over something like a screaming match over a parking space?


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