# Forum Name.



## arnisador (Apr 7, 2003)

Should this forum be called Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do or simply Soo Bahk Do instead? I gather that the latter name is preferred, but the former seems much more recognizable.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## karatekid1975 (Apr 7, 2003)

I like it the way it is (ok, I'm bias to TSD  ), but "Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do" is fair.


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## mtabone (Apr 7, 2003)

I am with Karatekid on this one


Michael Tabone


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## Shinzu (May 2, 2003)

i like the name the way it is also.  you rarely see a TSD section.  it is usually TKD being that it seems to be a more "popular" art.

i opt to keep it as is


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## karatekid1975 (May 3, 2003)

Thanks fellas  I miss TSD, too  But I'm doin an art that's mixed with both (TSD and TKD).


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## Shinzu (May 3, 2003)

as long as you are happy with the art you are taking,  that is the most important thing.  i am happy you found what you were looking for.  sometimes it takes a bit, but you are always better off in the long run.  i definitely felt the difference when i switched to a quality school!!


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## arnisador (Jun 4, 2003)

How many people here would describe themselves as doing Soo Bahk Do rather than TSD if it weren't for the name recognition of TSD?


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## karatekid1975 (Jun 4, 2003)

I did Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. SBD is different (in some ways) from TSD. I don't know how much different, because I never done it. But I think just the forms vary.


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## Galvatron (Jun 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *How many people here would describe themselves as doing Soo Bahk Do rather than TSD if it weren't for the name recognition of TSD? *



Not me!


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## Shinzu (Jun 5, 2003)

i spoke with my instructor.  

he stated that soo bahk do was the original name for tang soo do.  gm hwang kee changed it to tang soo do.  

then when members split from the moo duk kwan they went back to naming it soo bahk do.

it is the same style.  the only thing that has changed is the name and the association with gm hwang kee


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## JoeJ (Jul 22, 2003)

Actually, Hwang Kee first called his art "Hwa Soo Do", later changing the name to "Tang Soo Do" to be more in line with what others called their art (like Lee Won-kuk).  After finding a copy of the MooYi Dobo Tongji in the library and finding the ancient name was Soo Bahk or Soo Bahk Gi he decided to name his association the Soo Bahk Do Association.  

His art name didn't officially change to Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan until 1995.

Hope this helps-

Joe


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## jehja43679 (Jun 3, 2008)

I know this is a REALLY old post, but I wanted to clear up some historical points...

The first name of the art was indeed "Hwa Soo Do" meaning the way of the flowering hand.  This was the founder, Hwang Kee's first attempt at connecting to old Korean culture, and honoring the Hwa Rang Do warriors.   It's also said that the flowering hand is a reference to the blend of hard and soft as well as the use of both closed and open hands in the system.

He failed to get his system off the ground twice because it had too much of a Chinese flavor for the newly independent Korean country which was occupied by Japan for 36 years.

He had learned Okinawan/Japanese Hyung from books he found in stations along the Chosun railway.  In fact, many older Koreans remember that when you speak of the Moo Duk Kwan, you speak of the Railway Dojangs.  After the difficulties of opening his school, it's noted that he did go to train with Lee Won Kuk of the Chung Do Kwan, who was teaching Kong Soo Do (Empty Hand Way), or basically Karate-Do.

Hwang Kee learned these hyung and applied his own methods for developing power, even rearranging the movements in some cases, or kicking higher than their Japanese counterparts.  Passai Hyung, for example, includes a high side kick, while Bassaidai, the Japanese Kata, included a sidekick to the leg.  (Pal Che, the Southern Shaolin, original set may have included something altogether different.)

He re-opened his doors as "Hwa Soo (Tang Soo) Do - Moo Duk Kwan."  There's a picture floating around the internet that shows the Hanja in parentheses...

Since his personal education did have more Chinese influence, it was only fair to use Tang Soo Do (Chinese Hand Way) which was also a regularly used term during the time.

He produced his first set of Yu Dan Ja in 1947, but by this point, most people called the style "Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan" and the Hwa Soo part was simply dropped.

In 1957, Hwang Kee was presented with the Moo Yei Dobo Tong Ji, in which the founder identified the Kwon Bup (Fist Method) section... and found the term for all methods of defense without weapons, including grappling, known as Soo Bahk.  It is said that Soo Bahk in its ancient form was then split into Tae Kyon (the striking side) and Ssireum (the grappling side).

The rest is history, but the unclear part is when the names were adopted, and who took what name upon leaving the founder:

The founder officially filed the name "Dae Han Soo Bahk Do Hoi, Moo Duk Kwan" (Korean Soo Bahk Do Association, the School of Martial Virtue) on June 30, 1960.  Rather, it filed was earlier, but that's when the filing was approved.

A lot of people LOVED the name Tang Soo Do because of the amount of time they'd spent instructing and being students of it, so to change to "Soo Bahk Do" was difficult.  This is why all throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's, and early 90's, in the U.S., Tang Soo Do is what was prevalent.

The U.S. Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation, Inc. was chartered on June 28, 1975... they adopted the name finally in 1994 to reflect the founder's original wishes to honor the ancient Korean martial heritage.

So Soo Bahk Do is the name of the art studied by students who were officially recognized by the World Moo Duk Kwan organization, and most people who left took the name Tang Soo Do.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 3, 2008)

If at all possible, I think that a name change to Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do would be appropriate as we seem to be getting more and more SBD practitioners around on the board.

Is that still generally agreed?  If so, we may approach a moderator to try to change it.


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## DMcHenry (Jun 3, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Should this forum be called Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do or simply Soo Bahk Do instead? I gather that the latter name is preferred, but the former seems much more recognizable.
> 
> -Arnisador
> -MT Admin-


 
IMO, the former would be much more preferred, but both TSD/SBD would be appropriate and acceptable.


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## mtabone (Jun 6, 2008)

i am for what ever name of the forum makes all the TKD talk in the Tang Soo Do forum stop. :lfao: :soapbox: (kidding but not really)


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jun 6, 2008)

I personally don't care...if there's a name recognition benefit to Tang Soo Do, I'm not aware of it...I have to explain about my art whenever I mention it, because not many (even in the Pittsburgh, PA area) have ever heard of it. 

Tang Soo!


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## Montecarlodrag (Jun 7, 2008)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> I have to explain about my art whenever I mention it, because not many (even in the Pittsburgh, PA area) have ever heard of it.
> 
> Tang Soo!


 
Welcome to the club 

The thing I hate the most is I always have to say "It is like Tae Kwon Do" when somebody ask me "What is TSD like?"

Regards.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 7, 2008)

Unfortunately, there is little that can be done.  This same thing bothered me for a while, until I lived in Korea and found that many Koreans don't even know what TSD OR SBD is.  

Surprisingly enough though, if you mention Hwag Kee's name....they all know who he is.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jun 7, 2008)

Montecarlodrag said:


> Welcome to the club
> 
> The thing I hate the most is I always have to say "It is like Tae Kwon Do" when somebody ask me "What is TSD like?"
> 
> Regards.




Ah, but you know, I usually go with the more accurate, "It's like Korean karate." After all, my school's name is "C. S. Kim Karate," and anyway our hyung are more in line with karate than Taekwondo. So sometimes I also say "karate with high kicks."


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## DatFlow (Jun 11, 2008)

Eather way, keep TSD in the name, I wouldent know where else to go if you took it out! lol


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