# A word from Datu Kelly Worden



## Don Rearic (Dec 31, 2001)

I received this in E-mail earlier, for posting here. I think this will answer some questions and might cause some others to be asked. That is usually the nature of such things. -Don



> *I support the Presas family first and foremost, but I would like to give credit to the Tapi-Tapi group for maintaining the most current version of Professor's interior lines and close quarter solo baston (i.e. Tapi Tapi...) I like and respect all the men I have met from that group and truly believe they loved and cared for Professor. I do wish the split between Delaney and Dr. Shea had not happened so early as they were really supposed to keep each other in check, at least as it was explained to me. The split also reinforces the probability of a weak link in the chain of command, that it really did exist.
> 
> I have never felt very secure about Delaney taking the independent stance as the New Grandmaster, please hold the memory of Professor a little higher in esteem...
> 
> ...


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Dec 31, 2001)

You got to respect some one who speaks his mind! Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I don't agree with everything he says , but I respect his convictions.


:asian: :cheers:


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Don Rearic _
> *I received this in E-mail earlier, for posting here. I think this will answer some questions and might cause some others to be asked. That is usually the nature of such things. -Don*



I suspect you're right Don! It answers some questions and brings up some new ones.

I echo Mr. Hartman in respecting Mr. Worden for speaking his mind openly. For me the successors issue has been a tricky one because unlike Mr. Worden and Mr. Hartman I did not see the Professor during his illness. I am reluctant to think as poorly of anyone as I would be forced to think of Mr. Delaney if I fully accept what Mr. Worden--and several others, including Mao--have said about him. If it is indeed the case then it does make it harder to decide who is or should be in charge--if the Professor was taken advantage of and tricked during his illness.

Please understand that I am not doubting Mr. Worden--I am just reluctant to come to the conclusion that anyone would behave in that way to the Professor during his illness. I would very much like to hear Mr. Delaney's side of the story from Mr. Delaney himself.

I must also respectfully disagree that now is not the time to think of who is in charge, who is authorized to grant ranks, and so on. I think this must be settled soon for the art to go on as such. Modern Arnis, the "art within your art", could lose its identity rapidly without leadership, I fear. We must balance the potential for disrespect with the fear that the Professor's art will be lost as a distinct entity.

Thanks to Mr. Worden for sharing his insights and inside information, and indicating where he stands on the IMAFs, MARPPIO, etc, issue. Because of his prominence and his freindship with the Professor I am very glad to have his opinion on these issues. I hope that we will hear more from him.


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## White Belt Kid (Jan 1, 2002)

Im new to the whole modern arnis situation, and after reading worden's email, im just curious what mr. hartman would disagree with and if he could elaborate.





> "Wash on, wash off."    ----Mr. Miyagi----


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## bloodwood (Jan 1, 2002)

So according to statements made by zenman and Mr. Worden the Datus place in Modern Arnis is to branch out from the basic system as taught by the Professor and develop new ideas to enhance Modern Arnis and to help it grow. To add their own flair without being bound by a rigid set of rules and stretch the system to new limits.
In the cases of Mr. Worden and Mr. Hartman this is what they are doing with their organizations. Are they to be the new resource libraries for information on Modern Arnis as the Professor once was?
Now if the Presas children are to be the keepers and guardians of the base or original Modern Arnis system as prescribed by Mr. Warden, where do the two IMAF groups fit into the grand scheme of things. Is there a place for everyone or will some just be considered flies in the ointment. Also, does MARPPIO have the drawing power or the respect here in the USA to be the tie that binds. I say respect only because they are not well known here in the states.
Mr. Warden's statement did shed light on many things but as stated also generated lots of ??????? :yinyang:


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> *So according to statements made by zenman and Mr. Worden the Datus place in Modern Arnis is to branch out from the basic system as taught by the Professor and develop new ideas to enhance Modern Arnis and to help it grow. To add their own flair without being bound by a rigid set of rules and stretch the system to new limits.*



I hadn't heard this of the datus before the comments by Mr. Worden and his students; I wonder if Mr. Hartman would comment on this aspect of datuship, or if either of the IMAFs would comment on what they may have been told concerning the datus. I wish that some other datus (and some MOTTs) were posting here too! Perhaps Mr. Inocalla will at some date. It _is_ odd that the Professor created the MOTT title at such a late date and didn't include any datus in the organizational structure of the IMAF (at least as far as has been seen publicly). Perhaps Mao knows something about and can comment on why no datus were included? Perhaps not; perhaps, as so often happened, the Professor said different things to different people--not contradictory but rather giving to each what he felt they needed.



> *
> Now if the Presas children are to be the keepers and guardians of the base or original Modern Arnis system as prescribed by Mr. Warden*



I'm not sure that that's exactly what Mr. Worden said but it _is_ an interesting perspective. But at the end it seemed as though the IMAF was to be the main vehicle. Perhaps as has been suggested however that was just what has been presented to the public and the Professor would have said otherwise.

It's a mess. I honestly don't know what to believe. The IMAF didn't last long after the Professor's death; negative comments about Mr. Delaney come from all quarters; the remaining MOTTs stand together but view Mr. Delaney's position differently than Mr. Delaney does, and each co-successor calls the other "inactive" on their site; MARPPIO has an obvious claim but is late on the scene in many respects; Mr. Hartman has an obvious position based on his achievements and the Professor's comments at the 2000 Michigan camp; Mr. Worden also has an obvious position based on his achievements and the Professor's comments concerning him; Mr. Inocalla is yet another datu, the first, and is apparently attempting something grand; Mr. de Leon broke off early on and started his own style of which he is Grandmaster (http://www.arnisdeleon.com/); Ric "Bong" Jornales is yet _another_ datu who has his own arnis system (http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/072298/spo_jornales.html) and who is still active but has not made a public comment on this yet; Mr. Dantes' name is being mentioned more and more often, though apparently only in connection with MARPPIO; and who knows what shoe will drop next.

In my opinion, it _matters_. For the art to continue as such, and not disappear into other arts as just a component of them--though this was something the Professor promoted ("the art within your art")--Modern Arnis needs a clear organization(s) that promote the art, provide seminars and other forms of instruction, certify rank and instructors, etc. Some degree of cohesion is needed. I wish the Professor had been publicly promoting a heir for years prior to his illness so there'd be no confusion! Mr. Jornales, Mr. Hartman, and Mr. Delaney have all been moved into the spotlight at one point or another for what seemed like this purpose, and quite possibly the same is true of others before my time or out of my sight. Whatever else is said of him, Mr. Delaney was the one traveling and training with the Professor during the last few years and the one who was helping him with many details of the "business" of Modern Arnis, similar to Mr. Hartman's role in previous years. I must take from that some indication that the Professor was making a clear and positive statement about Mr. Delaney's position in the Modern Arnis hierarchy; yet with all that has happened and all that has been said I find it hard to turn toward him and his organization. (I wish he would address these issues publicly, in whatever forum.) I have much sympathy for the primogeniture argument offered by Mr. D. Presas on behalf of Dr. Presas but they were unseen for so long. I wish the Professor had made a clear and public statement on their behalf before his death.

I do not want to make judgements based on comments attributed to a deceased person even if those comments are made by trustworthy sources; the Professor is not here to clarify his statements and the context in which they were made. Yet I may have no other choice. I wish to respect his wishes and that _seems_ to be the IMAF but they've split already! I simply don't know what to think.

Sigh...I simply don't know what to think.


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## ARNIS PRINCESS (Jan 1, 2002)

I have just read the statement made by Mr. Worden as posted by Don Rearic.  There are several comments that leave me wondering.

Worden wrote:
*Believe me, the things that others want, I have wanted too, I stepped out of the direct group years ago because I was crowding Professor for glory, HIS...GLORY. * 

Is Mr. Worden trying to say that he thinks he was so much better than the Professor that he actually thinks he would overshadow Professor's expertise or take his glory? To use Mr. Worden's own words....PLEASE!

Worden wrote:
*I was "Natural Spirit Chapter of Modern Arnis," I just became "Natural Spirit" and stayed in the shadows... *

Does Mr. Worden really expect anyone to believe that he left for the noble cause of not looking better than the Professor?  Seems to be more here than meets the eye...

But I'm fairly new to Modern Arnis.  Is there anyone out there who can enlighten me with some background information?  Say from, oh, 1991 or so?

 :shrug:


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 1, 2002)

We must all stay focused. These are hard times and are getting harder. We must remember that in each story we hear there are three sides, *Yours, Mine and the Truth!* 

We are hearing many stories including my own. I will share with the forum the same advice I gave the Presas family when they started getting involved in the Modern Arnis community after Remy's death. * Give your trust to no one!* Trust must be earned. I never trust a person with out reservation. I let people prove to me if they're worthy of it.

People don't know what to believe. These comments are based on private e-mails I've been getting.  I say believe nothing, make us prove what we are saying. Those who have nothing to hide won't mind, those who do, will. 

:asian:


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## Brian Johns (Jan 1, 2002)

Folks,

I've out for awhile due to computer problems....had to take the damn thing to the shop for an overhaul and just got it back yesterday. I missed not being able to view the posts on the Arnis thread. I've had to catch up on lots of e-mails and lots of posts. 

I read Datu Worden's e-mail with interest, particularly with his comments with JD. I had understood, prior to reading that e-mail, that he was not impressed with JD. That e-mail only confirms my understanding. I was also interested in his comments with respect to the tapi tapi and his respect for the MOTTs. At the very least, I think that virtually all Modern Arnis groups will probably have the same opinion of JD. Might we get together and sing "Kumbaya" over this ?  

I have to be upfront.  I'm on the board of directors of the IMAF, Inc. (Dr. Schea's group) along with Mao and have 19 years of experience in the martial arts. To be frank, I'm really not interested in the pissing contests that have been taking place lately. I think that there are more common between all of us than there are differences. While Datus Worden, Hartman, Inocalla, Jornales, and the MOTTs may have different visions of Modern Arnis, I daresay that there are more similarities than there are differences.  The differences should not be surprising as we all have trained with the Professor at different times and therefore may have seen different aspects of Modern Arnis. Those who trained with the Professor in the 1970's are going to look and train differently than those who trained with the Professor in the last few years. It is unfortunate that some folks have developed personal feelings toward each other. Like Mao said, it's only human that folks develop these personal feelings.

Look at Bruce Lee. There are distinct eras in his life. There's the Jun Fan Gung Fu era and then later he developed JKD. The Jun Fan folks are going to be different than JKD. Why ? Because Bruce trained those two groups of students differently. Same with Professor Visitacion (otherwise known as Professor Vee).......he had different version of Vee Jitsu......Vee Jitsu '55, VJ '65, VJ '75 and Vee Arnis Jitsu. Students from those distinct groupings are different, yet there are similarities.

Ditto with Modern Arnis. I happen to like the version of Modern Arnis that was taught by the Professor in the last few years and is currently being taught by the MOTTs. Does this mean that this is the only version of Modern Arnis that I would like to learn ? NO!!!!!  But I will use the latest version by the Professor as a starting point. I see the martial arts as a continuum. Once you get to the higher levels, so many of the concepts and principles begin to overlap quite a bit.  I happen to enjoy training with Mao quite a bit as well with the Motts such as Dr. Schea, Chuck, and Ken. I happen to think highly of these martial artists. I also think highly of Datu Hartman's martial abilities as I've seen him teach and move.

Lastly, there have been aspersions with regard to the Professor's state of mind when he bestowed the MOTT title upon the aforementioned guys. Let me assure you, that I visited the Professor with Mao not too long after he had his surgery. He was very very clear minded and we had long conversations about Modern Arnis itself. He spoke to me several times about Prof Vee. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he knew what he was doing when he created the MOTT title. 

One last thing.......WOOOO!!!!!


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## Don Rearic (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *I must also respectfully disagree that now is not the time to think of who is in charge, who is authorized to grant ranks, and so on. I think this must be settled soon for the art to go on as such. Modern Arnis, the "art within your art", could lose its identity rapidly without leadership, I fear. We must balance the potential for disrespect with the fear that the Professor's art will be lost as a distinct entity.*



I don't think that Datu Worden's comments should be interpreted as _ignoring_ the issue of who will be in charge. I think what he is trying to convey is...the apparent scramble is unsightly, counterproductive and at times...not in keeping with respecting the Passing of Professor Presas.

Remember, the scramble and battle, infighting, that can occur from this can be every bit as destructive as indecision and apathy. With regard to who is going to lead.

In other words, the splits that people witnessed with Systems like GM Ed Parker's Kenpo System [RIP, respect] can be avoided in Modern Arnis. And I believe that even GM Ed Parker's Son has, to his credit, brought alot of people together and mended so much. Quite an accomplishment.

I think the message from Datu Worden *[my thoughts, not his]* is...

Please be cool, don't ignore it, but don't start raising hell about it either. The overall control should be in the hands of The Presas Family. 

Let me give you an example, and I have to walk on eggshells because I don't want to offend anyone else in any other system or style!

The Filipino Martial Arts World has lost so many cherished and incredibly skilled _Masters_ in the years past. Sometimes when I write about Guros that have passed on, it makes me sad and brings a tear to my eyes to have to stop and place [RIP] in brackets like that, it is done out of absolute respect but I would rather them still be around.

Names like Antonio "Tatang" Illustrisimo, Guro Ted Lucaylucay, Suro Mike Inay and Punong Guro Edgar Sulite are infamous throughout the Greater FMA Community.

They are gone.

Now, Professor Remy Presas is gone. Datu Worden has clearly and repeatedly stated that he does not wish to have the control of Modern Arnis. I think if you cut through "possibilities" brought forth by rhetoric and hyperbole...you can see this. 

Now I can step outside of the box for a moment and speak of "Kelly" instead of "Datu Kelly Worden."

Kelly is my friend. 

Arnisador, you address Datu Hartman with respect, and that is proper. I'm sure there are times when "Tim" is used. That is proper for friends. I assume you both are! This sort of Brotherhood breeds that...friendship!

Now, from me, Kelly has repeatedly stated publicly now, for the record, that he does not wish to have control. He is a Datu. Professor made it crystal clear that he is the #1 Ranked Datu and we know now that when something is said with regard to "rank" and rank when it comes to "Datu," those are two entirely different things.

I heard this myself on that tape. So, I don't see where there is a point for debate.

The focus, now, should be on preserving Modern Arnis as a System. 

In other words, when I come in here and say something for my friend Kelly, or he sends me something to post in here, do not immediately assume that he is trying to "pull something off" or anything. Like I said, he is on the record as not wanting control of this System. He wants it to be preserved as per the wishes of Professor Presas. That's just, noble and honorable.

What might sound bold, might just be the truth as alot of people see it, not just Kelly. He is not going to go back on his word, period. He's not jockeying for a position, in other words. He has his plate full already and he has made everything clear about the cultural aspects of Modern Arnis and how he thinks that should be handled and it is not merely his opinion, this is the wish of Professor Presas.

Datu Hartman, and this goes for Datu Worden as well, you guys are Modern Arnis, but Modern Arnis is not you. I think Datu Worden would agree.

Modern Arnis is _Professor Remy Presas_ and it does not matter a bit how much time someone has in or anything else at this point. It is a time for selflessness, Gentlemen. It is a time to Honor Professor Presas.

Professor Presas is Modern Arnis personified. He is gone but he will live on. And really, isn't that a beautiful and wonderful thing? To be immortalized by your own hard work? How that happens is up to everyone involved in the upper echelon of Modern Arnis today. 

Taking a break might fragment Modern Arnis, a mad scramble with fingers wagging will most certainly fragment it. I think what you can take from Datu Worden is a call for Unity instead of Division.


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## Don Rearic (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ARNIS PRINCESS _
> Worden wrote:
> *Believe me, the things that others want, I have wanted too, I stepped out of the direct group years ago because I was crowding Professor for glory, HIS...GLORY. *
> 
> _Is Mr. Worden trying to say that he thinks he was so much better than the Professor that he actually thinks he would overshadow Professor's expertise or take his glory? To use Mr. Worden's own words....PLEASE!_



I think you are taking an incredibly honest and _humble_ statement and placing your own spin on it.

Let's see if I can break this down for you.

"Believe me, the things that others want, I have wanted too..."

Do you honestly think that a drive and a desire to be a success is a terrible thing? This is precisely what Datu Worden is speaking of and unless you think he carries a Trident around and has horns growing out of his head, I would not read into it anymore than just that.



> _Originally posted by ARNIS PRINCESS_
> Worden wrote:
> *I was "Natural Spirit Chapter of Modern Arnis," I just became "Natural Spirit" and stayed in the shadows... *
> 
> _Does Mr. Worden really expect anyone to believe that he left for the noble cause of not looking better than the Professor?  Seems to be more here than meets the eye..._



Datu Worden would probably expect you to believe whatever you wish to on face value. You can believe as you wish. You seem to think him somewhat of an arrogant sod! Again, you're reading _far too much_ into a simple and honest statement.

Your post is rather aggressive and accusatory in content and that is perfectly fine as long as I'm allowed to say that and address that. 

In other words, if you wish to think the worst of Datu Worden, right out of the starting gate, as you apparently do, that is entirely your choice. But to start assigning an extreme arrogance to his words would not be acceptable. You can think what you want and you can spin his words whatever way you wish to, that does not make your spin accurate, true...or even something to be proud of.

He never stated that he was worried about overshadowing the Professor as far as pure skill is concerned, but because of his own drive to be his own person and to be the best he could be. 

I simply don't see what you are seeing in his words, I'm sorry.

We have all spoken about how Datu were looked at as favorite children to the Professor...

I have a five year old little boy, one day, he will want to do his own thing. I can stifle that and stunt that growth, or I can turn him loose. Do you see the parallel?

What Datu Worden has conveyed to me is, he stepped outside of that circle to prevent undue tensions in the West Coast Modern Arnis Group(s) as well. Why? The drive he had. Apparently, Professor Remy Presas never had a problem with Datu Worden as you seem to have. He understood everything, the drive, perfectly and he allowed Datu Worden to carry on and he was never "excommunicated" or shunned by Professor Presas..._at all._

I hope this further helped to clear things up.

Again, you can take a rather honest and humble statement and you can most certainly hang nefarious intent on it...that does not make it true. 

It sure makes for a _spicy_ read though.


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Don Rearic _
> *I think the message from Datu Worden [my thoughts, not his] is...
> 
> Please be cool, don't ignore it, but don't start raising hell about it either. The overall control should be in the hands of The Presas Family.
> *



I must say that I find this a bit contradictory--advising that we not worry too much about this now on the one hand but also supporting a faction, and one that is not the one selected by the Professor to continue his art as per his will, on the other hand. There is much to be said for MARPPIO but the fact remains that the Professor's written intention was to have the IMAF be the formal vehicle for the continuation of his art. Stating support for anyone other than the IMAF _is_ stirring things up I think.

I understand that Mr. Worden states in the letter you posted that he believes the Professor wanted his art in Filipino hands but his publicly expressed intent was that the IMAF under the MOTTs  have stewardship of the art. I don't think that you can have this both ways--if you don't support the MOTTs and at least one of the IMAFs, you're raising the issue. That's fine, but let's be upfront about it--you can't suggest that only others are discussing the political issues involved if you're not simply supporting the MOTTs.



> *
> Names like Antonio "Tatang" Illustrisimo, Guro Ted Lucaylucay, Suro Mike Inay and Punong Guro Edgar Sulite are infamous throughout the Greater FMA Community.*



I disagree! See: infamous. (Sorry, I knew what you meant!) I was able to take a seminar under Mr. Inay but regrettably had no experience with the others.



> *
> Arnisador, you address Datu Hartman with respect, and that is proper. I'm sure there are times when "Tim" is used. That is proper for friends. I assume you both are! This sort of Brotherhood breeds that...friendship!*



In fact we attended high school together prior to his studying arnis, and I do indeed address him as Tim (or Timmy) in person. He's both a friend and my instructor.



> *He [Mr. Worden] is a Datu. Professor made it crystal clear that he is the #1 Ranked Datu and we know now that when something is said with regard to "rank" and rank when it comes to "Datu," those are two entirely different things.
> 
> I heard this myself on that tape. So, I don't see where there is a point for debate.*



Well, in fairness to the rest of us, you have an advantage in that you _have_ heard the tape. I know you're working to bring it out for the rest of us and that is appreciated. But I also know that the Professor made similar comments about Mr. Hartman at the 2000 Michigan camp so the situation will perhaps be more complicated than it appears at first blush. It isn't perfectly clear how to reconcile these statements.

In other words, when I come in here and say something for my friend Kelly, or he sends me something to post in here, do not immediately assume that he is trying to "pull something off" or anything. Like I said, he is on the record as not wanting control of this System. He wants it to be preserved as per the wishes of Professor Presas. That's just, noble and honorable.



> *He has his plate full already and he has made everything clear about the cultural aspects of Modern Arnis and how he thinks that should be handled and it is not merely his opinion, this is the wish of Professor Presas.*



Please, put yourself in my position. I didn't speak directly to the Professor after his illness began; I asked Mr. Hartman to convey my well wishes whenever he visited the Professor. On the one hand Mr. Worden and MARPPIO say that the Professor wanted the Professor's children to carry on his art; on the other hand there is overwhelming _written_ evidence that the Professor wanted the IMAF and MOTTs to carry on his art. I know what Mr. Worden has said about Mr. Delaney and the Professor's true wishes, but to say as you do that "this is the wish of Professor Presas" in the face of the will and the comments by the MOTTs and the statements made on the IMAF web page _prior to the Professor's death_ puts many of us in a difficult position. It seems to directly contradict not just Mr. Delaney's statements but also the other MOTTs', and also calls the Professor's own judgement into question as he presumably signed his own will. I am glad to have Mr. Worden's opinion of what happened--he had a view that I didn't--but it isn't as simple for _me_ as "this is the wish of Professor Presas".

How often have we seen the Professor give different things to different people, or say things that seem at first glance contradictory (as with the comments about Mr. Worden's position in Modern Arnis and Mr. Hartman's position in Modern Arnis)? Once again, I don't know what to believe, but I am not yet willing to believe that the Professor simply "went along" with the whole IMAF/MOTTs plan while figuring that Dr. Presas would end up in charge. It may have happened, of course, but I am not yet convinced that it's that simple. Dr. Schea was there often, I understand, and is a man of integrity--he seems to believe that the IMAF, Inc. is intended to carry on the Professor's vision. How is this to be explained?

I don't expect you to be able to explain it all of course--these are the questions I ask myself. I think there are more sides of the story to be considered, as Mr. Hartman said.



> *I think what you can take from Datu Worden is a call for Unity instead of Division. *



That gets *my* support! Alas, I despair of it happening. Clearly Mr. Delaney's IMAF has its own plans; there is also the IMAF, Inc., MARPPIO, the WMAA (the least political of them all by far, in my opinion), the IMAF-Philippines, and Mr. Inocalla's proposed umbrella organization, plus the already departed group headed by Mr. de Leon. Is there a practical plan for achieving this unity? Will the MOTTs consider combining the IMAF and MARPPIO?

To be blunt, if unity was desired, I would think that Dr. Presas would have waited longer and attempted to work with Dr. Schea and Mr. Delaney. The early and unexpected announcement by MARPPIO, together with an offer of a year's free membership for those currently with the IMAF, was impolitic, I think. This is not a matter of them being in the right or wrong on other counts--IMAF was the public vehicle and they came out as a competing group soon after the Professor's passing. This only adds greatly to the disunity. In this regard I think that Mr. Hartman's cautious tone has been most appropriate. He is not adding heat to the fire by supporting one organization over another.

I'm sorry to differ with you this strongly Mr. Rearic but I feel that Mr. Worden's public support of Dr. Presas and his siblings at this early date stand in contrast to the call for less bickering. The IMAF represented the best hope for stability, and giving it a year to find its feet and working with it would have been the best way to have less politics. I'm prepared to accept Mr. Worden's support for the Presas family *or* his call for less politics and more unity, but not both simultaneously. That would be having ones cake and eating it too.


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## Don Rearic (Jan 1, 2002)

Arnisador,

I shall forward some things to Datu Worden and possibly he can answer it directly with a statement as above.

As for the correction from the dictionary, THANKS!

See what happens when you are trying to do three things at once!

What I was most concerned about were the links to the memorials being correct so I did not look bad and ya busted my *** on infamous! _Hahahahaha!_:moon:


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Don Rearic _
> *
> He never stated that he was worried about overshadowing the Professor as far as pure skill is concerned, but because of his own drive to be his own person and to be the best he could be.
> 
> I simply don't see what you are seeing in his words, I'm sorry.*



In fairness to Arnis Princess I can see where what was written could be taken that way; this is the price we pay for using this medium with no verbal/facial/body cues. I expect that if we were all sitting in a group discussing this that everyone would have udnerstood it the way you meant it! In the same I think comments made much earlier that were taken as disrespectful of Mr. Worden were not meant that way and would not have seemed so if spoken.

Mr. Worden's drive has clearly led him to much success and he has just as clearly inspired great loyalty and respect in his students.



> *
> I have a five year old little boy, one day, he will want to do his own thing.*



*One day*!!! What's your secret?  



> *
> What Datu Worden has conveyed to me is, he stepped outside of that circle to prevent undue tensions in the West Coast Modern Arnis Group(s) as well. *



I understand.


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Don Rearic _
> *I shall forward some things to Datu Worden and possibly he can answer it directly with a statement as above.*



Thanks! In all seriousness this is much appreciated and I hope that I am conveying to you that I am trying my best to keep an open mind and sort things out. Much is happening and for those of us who were not directly "in the loop" it is, well, a mess...a most unfortunate mess. I hope that you have indicated to Mr. Worden that his input is respected and appreciated even though there is from time to time disagreement. The notion that we are all Modern Arnis practitioners and should all practice together is the over-riding philosophy of the Professor. As he said so often and so simply, "I want you to practice toegther, and to be happy." As for anything else, well, "That is not the way I have shown you".



> *
> As for the correction from the dictionary, THANKS!
> 
> See what happens when you are trying to do three things at once!*



I am invariably multi-tasking when I'm on here. Some day I'll post an e-mail to my parents or boss to this forum by accident, I'm sure.


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## Don Rearic (Jan 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *One day!!! What's your secret?  *



My Boy? Donnie? Honestly? _Bribery._


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## Bob mCcluskey (Jan 3, 2002)

IN RESPONSE TO DATU KELLY WORDENS THOUGHTS...I BELIEVE 
HE IS ON TRACK AND HAS THE INTEREST OF THE MEMORY OF GRANDMASTER PRESAS AND THE RESPECT OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS FORMOST IN HIS MIND, WORDS  AND ACTIONS. I DO WONDER, HOWEVER, WHY ANYONE SHOULD TRY TO 'FILL THE SHOES' OF GRANDMASTER PRESAS.  WHY CAN'T WE WORK TO FILL OUR OWN SHOES AND WALK DOWN OUR OWN PATH, AS PRESAS DID? DURING THE LAST 10 YEARS I HAVE STUDIED WITH DATU WORDEN, WAS TESTED BY GRANDMASTER PRESAS AND HAVE HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO MEET SOME VERY TALENTED PRACTITIONERS.  I KNOW A GOOD MANY OF US CAN MAKE YOUR OWN MARK IN OUR AREA OF MARTIAL ARTS STUDY AND EXPERTISE.  WE CAN DO THIS, IN PART, BY HONORING AND FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND EXAMPLES OF REMY PRESAS.
THEN, IF SO MOTIVATED, BECOMMING OUR OWN TEACHER IN OUR OWN ARENA.


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## arnisador (Jan 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bob mCcluskey _
> *I DO WONDER, HOWEVER, WHY ANYONE SHOULD TRY TO 'FILL THE SHOES' OF GRANDMASTER PRESAS.  WHY CAN'T WE WORK TO FILL OUR OWN SHOES AND WALK DOWN OUR OWN PATH, AS PRESAS DID?*



No problem. But I think it would also be nice if the Professor's art carried on rather than disappearing into a hundred separate styles or systems (if this is indeed what you're suggesting). It's OK even if _most_ people take what they were given and move on; but I'd be saddened if there was no more "Modern Arnis" as a legacy of the Professor in 20 years. If everyone does as you suggest I think the art itself will disappear and that would be a shame.

I note also that the Professor left clear and explicit plans for the continuation of his art of Modern Arnis via the IMAF and MOTTs. They were not to "fill his shoes" per se but rather to continue his art, _as Modern Arnis_ and not as part of what someone else taught. I think it honours his memory to continue his art.

I doubt he wanted it to be static but I do believe he wanted it to continue and not to die (as a separate art) with him. If we all walk our own path as he did--forming our own systems--his art disappears. Some people already have gone their own way (e.g. Mr. de Leon), but I hope some will also stay and keep a Modern Arnis identity!


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## Don Rearic (Jan 3, 2002)

I think there is a valid concern in both directions. This becomes a matter of personality really. Let me give you an example, Arnisador...

To give an example that everyone can understand and _probably_ agree on...

Guro Dan Inosanto, if you sat down with him, and you asked him to demonstrate JKD, then three different systems of Pentjak Silat, then some Pekiti Tirsia...then pick two more straight up FMAs, I bet he could do just that and not get anything confused. 

Since people like Datu Worden have taken the base teachings of Modern Arnis _proper_ and they have used that as a vehicle for exploration, and done so effectively... I think that Modern Arnis as it stands today can be preserved as THAT vehicle of self-exploration. If that makes sense, eh?

Anything after that is icing on the cake! 

In other words, both wishes of Professor Presas can be maintained. The preservation of what he created and the fact that it can grow as well.

I think that is a beautiful thing.


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## arnisador (Jan 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Don Rearic _
> * In other words, both wishes of Professor Presas can be maintained. The preservation of what he created and the fact that it can grow as well.
> *



This is my thought as well. Clearly people will continue to incorporate the Professor's teachings into their primary arts *and* use the Professor's teachings as a base from which to branch off into other areas on their own (or with additional guidance), but it is also desireable, at the very least as a way to honour the Professor but also because of its proven utility, to maintain that base for future generations. (This doesn't mean the art can't change at all or continue to evolve.) This is what I hope to see.

What I _expect_ to see is two-to-six major Modern Arnis organizations, each with its own head, each claiming to do "real" Modern Arnis. We already have three (IMAF1, IMAF2, and MARPPIO). I think that one of the IMAFs may fold in the middle term or at least not be a major player--that's just a guess--but I'm also guessing that at least one IMAF and MARPPIO will last. It may be that other MOTTs break off or what have you; I don't know. I also don't know how bad this will be if it does come to be the state of affairs--Parker's kenpo is still a strong presence after all, and there are styles of karate with multiple organizations (e.g. goju-ryu). Maybe it won't matter. Wally Jay is leaving four heirs after all.

Still, it's a mess and I think a smooth transition would have been nice. One set of camps, one board of directors, one source of rank/certification, one authoritative voice on curricular and technique issues, and everyone training together as the Professor always stressed.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 3, 2002)

Just to add to that list of groups, given the ever growing member list, and Datu Hartmans' high visibility, when talking about major players in the MA world, you can't leave out the WMAA.

I've seen many others appear, all but a few seeming to pop up, then fade with only a few members.

Don hit it on the head though....the "preservation" of the Professors art.

To me, that is the key point.

:asian:


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## arnisador (Jan 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Just to add to that list of groups, given the ever growing member list, and Datu Hartmans' high visibility, when talking about major players in the MA world, you can't leave out the WMAA.
> *



Yes, certainly Mr. Hartman is a major figure in Modern Arnis. I leave the WMAA and also Mr. Worden's organization out of the list because unlike the IMAF, the IMAF, Inc., MARPPIO, and the IADLF, neither Mr. Hartman nor Mr. Worden has yet claimed that they are the true heirs (MARPPIO) or successors (the IMAFs) of the Professor and that they head Modern Arnis (the IMAFs and MARPPIO; the latter may not have made an _exclusive_ claim to headship) or a similar system (the IADLF). They each have their own organizations and teach their own curricula; I know that Mr. Hartman's remains centered around Modern Arnis and that Mr. Worden's grows from Modern Arnis.

So Mr. Hartman, as a datu, the Professor's highest tested black belt, and one who has for a long time been a protege of and highly visible assistant to the Professor, is a major player and so is his organization (of which I am a member); but I do not yet see it as vying for the same position as the IMAFs and MARPPIO, nor breaking fully away and starting a separately-named art like the IADLF.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 3, 2002)

Ahh...  Makes sence to me now.  
Thanks for clearing it up.


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## bloodwood (Jan 3, 2002)

Don't forget that before Datu Hartman started the WMAA he formed and headed the Can-Am chapter of the IMAF at the request of the Professor. Can-Am ran along side the IMAF for years and was an extession of the IMAF, or should I say it was the IMAF with a twist, however Datu Hartman and Can-Am were always Modern Arnis under Professor Presas.


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## jaybacca72 (Jan 4, 2002)

cream will always rise to the top.you guys are missing the big picture here,if your life is that boring that you have to worry about what other people are doing that's pretty sad and that also means you are not focusing on yourself.Just train have fun and let the chips fall where they may,and support who you like. In my time in arnis other than remy i have seen no one spread arnis or get respect from the kenpo communty like tim hartman has.Oh by the way he was doing this while remy was alive and teaching and was consulting with remy on his progress. I have personally heard remy say while eating dinner with him that tim was indeed one of the successors but due to influences that did not happen. the reason they call tim the renegade is because he did things up front,he fought with remy and made up with him and he apparently did not mesh with the motts(thank god for that) i feel remy gave tim his datu title for his commiment to modern arnis and it's spreading globally,his ability and the fact he became his own man unlike the other followers.If you notice all the other datus have become thier own men aswell. i consider tim my teacher but also my brother and friend and support him 100% ,for the record the datu title is just polotics and he has never asked me to call him datu in fact i make fun of it ha.i don't post often but when i do i am generally getting tired of reading the same old crap. just train hard man
later
jaybacca


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## no fefe (Jan 4, 2002)

so why come in and say cut the crap?

It seems obvious that everything is going fine, it gout a little rough but everything was ironed out and everything is smooth.
Ideas and insights have been exchanged, it is turning to be very productive.  

To come in here after everything is going well and say "enough of the crap" seems to stir it up again.

 

That's just how I see it.

RK


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## Bob (Jan 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jaybacca72 _
> *the fact he became his own man unlike the other followers.If you notice all the other datus have become thier own men aswell. i consider tim my teacher but also my brother and friend and support him 100% ,for the record the datu title is just polotics and he has never asked me to call him datu in fact i make fun of it ha.i don't post often but when i do i am generally getting tired of reading the same old crap. just train hard man
> later
> jaybacca *



I am glad you wrote this statement because I in my opinion that was the main premise of why the Professor gave the title of DATU to certain individuals. I feel the same way about my DATU, but we have to all remember this forum has started out very controversial and now the powers that be are ironing out their difference. I agree with your thinking, its all politics, but some of the issues mean a lot to the people on this forum, so I think we all need to take time and think about what we write and remember that we have all agreed to disagree, but we all have the right to voice our opinion. 
I am not one for politics either, but it works for some. I tend to think more like you "just train hard".............. 
Just my two cents..
thanks 
Bob


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## Mathusula2 (Jan 4, 2002)

Hey Jaybacca -- 

All I have to say is DAMN STRAIGHT BROTHER!!:cheers:


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