# sho tung kwa



## marlon (Sep 15, 2006)

Considering that GM Villari has been reported as stating that this form as containing the essence of his shaolin kempo system.  I thought a thread discussing it would be a great tool to understanding skk.  My first question is about the three tiger strikes in the form.  I was taught to do them while in a crane stance after the front ball kick....why stay in the crane to do these strikes?  Was everyone taught this way?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## kosho (Sep 15, 2006)

Hello,
         The 1 thing that I have a, over all issue with Shaolin kempo is the movement of Balance and base at times in comb, Katas, ETC. I love Shaolin kempo and Hold a 3rd degree under master John Evans. But all of my Shaolin Forms  and katas  Have a Kosho influence so when you see them you can see 85% the same  but  also different. The one thing that changes is natural Law of movement in the forms. So  I don't feel that in Sho Tung Kwa at that point you should be in a crane. ( maybe for a tournament) because it looks good, just my 2 cents. Love the Form.
and also in statue of the crane. That form has changed also  so it still is the form  but The movements are changed from jumping into a crane to shifting ones center  with in the movement...
Marlon, also master evans will be at my dojo on 11/11/06  
if you can  you should come down as my guest.
steve 
email me... hope all is well see you in N.J. this year


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## marlon (Sep 17, 2006)

Actually, i do not think it looks good.  However, i am loathe to change set things in the system without a claer understanding of why it is done this way.  For the record my current instructor does not teach it this way...ie tigers with the crane.  I am curious about the 'base' comment you made about this form, please elaborate about how you see this in the form and what it means to you

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## KempoShaun (Sep 17, 2006)

Marlon, you really need to get some private lessons with Rebelo Sensei.  I know we spoke briefly at the last gathering, but the ride once a week to New Bedford would be worth it.  The Bunkai, variations, Chin-Na, etc...


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## marlon (Sep 17, 2006)

KempoShaun said:


> Marlon, you really need to get some private lessons with Rebelo Sensei. I know we spoke briefly at the last gathering, but the ride once a week to New Bedford would be worth it. The Bunkai, variations, Chin-Na, etc...


 

Hello Shaun,
a five hour ride once a week would be a lot.  Also, i get plenty from Prof.I  i am hoping to get some discussions going and maybe catalogue various thoughts and concepts concering sk forms hear on martial talk, for info and as a resource for futur seekers.
training is truth

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## kosho (Sep 18, 2006)

Hi,
      i will be writing out this form.  and  giving my 2 cents on the balance  and in-balance of the form.  Center line  and Kosho Idears...this will take a few days  so i will post it then...
Thanks,

Never move backwards to move forwards.  and always move twice...
also Did you get my email?  and sorry if I have you confused with someone else...


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## KempoShaun (Sep 18, 2006)

Disclaimer:  I am NOT in any way saying that Professor Ingargiola is anything less than an incredible martial Arts Instructor.  Actually, at the time of my post, I wasn't even thinking of whom you trained with.  That said, I do 3 hours, sometimes 2x a week to train with Joe


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## eyebeams (Sep 18, 2006)

Is there a clip of this set anywhere?


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## marlon (Sep 19, 2006)

kosho said:


> Hi,
> i will be writing out this form. and giving my 2 cents on the balance and in-balance of the form. Center line and Kosho Idears...this will take a few days so i will post it then...
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


 
Hi Steve,
i think you have the right person.  I enjoyed your material on the folding arts very much and have shared it with one student so far.  I do not remember trainnig with you, though.  Anywho, good to make your acquaintance again.
Respectfully,
Marlon


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## kosho (Sep 19, 2006)

Hi, 

  This  should take us to the part you are talking about in this kata.
Like with all katas  different teachers teach things as close as it was passed to them. This  is how it is for me in shaolin  ( no Kosho added, YET) up to this point. I will be glad to finish writing it out if there is anyone who would like it to be......

*Front position* and Bow.  Right foot steps out and cross the arms in front of your chest, exhale and lower the arms. As you inhale, bring your right foot in then up to a flamingo as you simultaneously place your right fist into your left palm (*  palm* *up* ). Hands rise up to solar plexus level as right leg rises. As you exhale, your leg lowers next to your left, and your hands are crossed in front open.
Look to your right, look to your left, step out with right foot into a horse stance as you simultaneous palm block (* left* ).

Pivot on your left foot 90 degrees, then left foot crosses behind right into a twist stance as you back fist ( *right)*  to the groin and simultaneous  palm block (*left *).

Step out with your left, turning counterclockwise to a forward stance and do a left parry block. Right foot moves forward into a right forward stance, left foot moves into a left forward stance as you do simultaneous inward palm blocks.

Left arm does an upward block as you thrust punch to the solar plexus (*right*). Right arm performs an upward block, then left spear hand poke to the throat. Left foot moves back into a right forward stance as you simultaneously right tigers mouth to the throat in front and hammer strike (* left* ) at attackers groin behind you. 

Turn counter clock wise to the left *90 degrees* and step forward with a right dragons block. Then do a left two finger poke to the eyes and pull into a right back punch to the solar plexus. Left back fist to the face  and spin around back lick *45 degrees* to the left. Then a left front kick to the same direction, followed by three tiger rakes to the faceleft, right, left. (* In crane or Not).*

Pivot *180 degrees* into a right cat stance facing attacker and do a right side blade kick. Cross left foot behind right into a twisted stance with a left circular downward palm block and a right back fist to the face.

*Turn 90 degrees* to your left, left crescent kick to attackers leg and simultaneous left palm block, then a left immortal man strike to the neck. Left foot steps down and pivot 180 degrees into a left cat stance as you do a simultaneous right downward palm strike to attackers wrist and a left upward palm strike to the elbow then step back into a right cat stance and do a left downward palm strike to the wrist and a right  upward palm strike to the elbow.

Double front ball kick (*left to groin),* right to solar plexus.

Ok  here it is...  let me know how close this is to yours????
steve


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## marlon (Oct 19, 2006)

kosho said:


> Hi,
> 
> This should take us to the part you are talking about in this kata.
> Like with all katas different teachers teach things as close as it was passed to them. This is how it is for me in shaolin ( no Kosho added, YET) up to this point. I will be glad to finish writing it out if there is anyone who would like it to be......
> ...


 
Seems very similar
thanks for this. For some reason the things i said were included in the coloured text of the quote...apologies i put quotations to help them stand out more. 
Care to share any thoughts or observations on this part of the form?

Respectfully,
Marlon


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## Gufbal1982 (Nov 23, 2006)

marlon said:


> Considering that GM Villari has been reported as stating that this form as containing the essence of his shaolin kempo system. I thought a thread discussing it would be a great tool to understanding skk. My first question is about the three tiger strikes in the form. I was taught to do them while in a crane stance after the front ball kick....why stay in the crane to do these strikes? Was everyone taught this way?
> 
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


 

Fred Villari's system doesn't teach it that way.  They teach to land and then do the strikes.  USSD teaches it to do the strikes in a crane stance because Sho Tung Kwok translates to "hands and feet move in harmony"


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## marlon (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks landing makes more sense

the form is very instructive

Respectfully,
marlon


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## shaolin ninja 4 (Dec 5, 2006)

marlon said:


> Thanks landing makes more sense
> 
> the form is very instructive
> 
> ...


This one of my favorite forums.


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## RevIV (Dec 6, 2006)

marlon said:


> Thanks landing makes more sense
> 
> the form is very instructive
> 
> ...


 
That makes me fool good,  this one of my favorite forms too.  A few years ago i started putting the foot down because it was one of the only parts that did not make much sense.  To hear that this is the way the originator does it makes me feel better about changing it from the way i learned it.
Jesse


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## SK101 (Jan 2, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> Fred Villari's system doesn't teach it that way.  They teach to land and then do the strikes.  USSD teaches it to do the strikes in a crane stance because Sho Tung Kwok translates to "hands and feet move in harmony"



    I received this form from United. I never had a crane stance before the 3 rakes nor ever saw anyone else do it that way. It could still be that people do it that way as there is always variation, but in the six years I worked for USSD I never saw it done that way. The hands and feet in harmony was said to be land with the strike, but that would be the first strike generally.

SK101


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 2, 2007)

SK101 said:


> I received this form from United. I never had a crane stance before the 3 rakes nor ever saw anyone else do it that way. It could still be that people do it that way as there is always variation, but in the six years I worked for USSD I never saw it done that way. The hands and feet in harmony was said to be land with the strike, but that would be the first strike generally.
> 
> SK101


 

Funny.  I was with USSD and I had it changed from the FV way which is to land and then strike.  It's probably an LA county variation.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 2, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> Funny. I was with USSD and I had it changed from the FV way which is to land and then strike. It's probably an LA county variation.


 
I'm USSD now, I was taught to land the foot at the same time the last strike hits. Hands and feet stop moving together. Previously with FV, it was land then strike.


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## SK101 (Jan 5, 2007)

Gufbal1982 said:


> Funny.  I was with USSD and I had it changed from the FV way which is to land and then strike.  It's probably an LA county variation.



Did you learn this from Master Kris Eszlinger?


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 5, 2007)

SK101 said:


> Did you learn this from Master Kris Eszlinger?


 
I learned it from one of the LA instructors.


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## Josh Oakley (May 2, 2008)

SK101 said:


> Did you learn this from Master Kris Eszlinger?


 
Hey, that's my boss's boss!

My boss is Sensei Preston Ducati


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## SK101 (May 3, 2008)

Both of them are great people. Master E. did alot of things for me when I taught for United. He'll take good care of you.

Say hello to them for me.


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## SK101 (May 3, 2008)

Both of them are great people. Master E. did alot of things for me when I taught for United. He'll take good care of you.

Say hello to them for me.


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## SK101 (May 3, 2008)

By the way is Preston still at the beverly Hills studio these days.


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## Josh Oakley (May 3, 2008)

Not really. He is the director for WA state, and he does have a dojo in LA under him.


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## Jdokan (Jul 30, 2008)

Marlon I was taught the same....but not as a posing stature.....
As the kick hits it pulls the guy closer towards you and the three rakes happen as fast as possible...as the foot is stepping down....Because the hands occur so quickly it "feels" as if you're posing in that position...
Prctice the move on a student...you'll see what I mean...


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## marlon (Jul 30, 2008)

Jdokan said:


> Marlon I was taught the same....but not as a posing stature.....
> As the kick hits it pulls the guy closer towards you and the three rakes happen as fast as possible...as the foot is stepping down....Because the hands occur so quickly it "feels" as if you're posing in that position...
> Prctice the move on a student...you'll see what I mean...


 
thanks that makes perfect sense!  I was placing the kick higher so i did not see that application

Respectfully,
Marlon


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