# How would you handle this ???



## webpage20022003 (Apr 29, 2003)

have 1 easy question for everybody here. Take your time to answer it as it is in real situation ok?

you are walking down the street and 1 punk comes up to you and throws a punch at you. You execute techniques and the guy is on the floor. He is not dead.

1-You would run away and pretend NOTHING happen
2-Wait for a cop to arrive and file a report and go to court to explain to judge what was hapenning. 

that are 2 options. Which one will you choose and why?

thanks all.


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by webpage20022003 _
> *have 1 easy question for everybody here. Take your time to answer it as it is in real situation ok?
> 
> you are walking down the street and 1 punk comes up to you and throws a punch at you. You execute techniques and the guy is on the floor. He is not dead.
> ...



I would WALK away and pretend nothing happened!  :asian:


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## Kirk (Apr 29, 2003)

If there were no witnesses, I'd walk away.
If there WERE witnesses, I'd wait for the police.


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *If there were no witnesses, I'd walk away.
> If there WERE witnesses, I'd wait for the police. *



Good point.  But as long as the witnesses don't know me, then who would care?  All they could do is give a description.  And if the guy was alive then it wouldn't matter anyway, because the witnesses would have probably seen him attack me anyway.


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## Kirk (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *Good point.  But as long as the witnesses don't know me, then who would care?  All they could do is give a description.  And if the guy was alive then it wouldn't matter anyway, because the witnesses would have probably seen him attack me anyway.   *




Ah, good point!  Something to think about.


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *Good point.  But as long as the witnesses don't know me, then who would care?  All they could do is give a description.  And if the guy was alive then it wouldn't matter anyway, because the witnesses would have probably seen him attack me anyway.   *



But an extension to this is that "1 punk" will almost never be "1 punk." He'll probably have at least 1 friend. That 1(or more) friend will be at least 1 witness who will claim that you were the attacker. If you walk away, that 1(+) friend may convince the others of the same. All they have to do is to just plant a seed of doubt so that when the cops question them, they get, "Well, I'm not really sure." instead of "This is what happened."

Personally, if there were "witnesses", I would put my back a wall (in case the assumed nearby friend decides to try something) and call the cops on my cell phone. Then I'd prepare my statement while I waited for them.

But I'm a pretty memorable guy and most witnesses would be able to describe me pretty well. I'd probably get picked up from their descriptions.

If there were no witnesses, and I was sure there were no witnesses, then I'd probably keep walking.

And I may keep walking regardless ... depending on how I feel at that specific moment. And depending on the exact situation. If I just dodge his punch and stick my foot out so his own momentum trips him, then I won't stop. I'll just keep going because to any witnesses, it'll look like the guy just tripped.

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *But an extension to this is that "1 punk" will almost never be "1 punk." He'll probably have at least 1 friend. That 1(or more) friend will be at least 1 witness who will claim that you were the attacker. If you walk away, that 1(+) friend may convince the others of the same. All they have to do is to just plant a seed of doubt so that when the cops question them, they get, "Well, I'm not really sure." instead of "This is what happened."*


* 

If that person had 1+ friends there then they would ALL probably be on you anyway...so then the whole scenario would change.  Then you would be fighting them all probably.  And after anyone else saw 1 person beat up 2 or more others (given that is the case), then they would probably tell the story as it happened because they would be impressed that it turned out that way.  What may probably happen if it was one on one and the friends were there as witnesses and you won, they would probably pick their friend up and tell him he got what he deserved and get out of there because none of them would want to stick around either with the possibility of everyone getting in trouble.*


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *If that person had 1+ friends there then they would ALL probably be on you anyway...so then the whole scenario would change.  Then you would be fighting them all probably.  And after anyone else saw 1 person beat up 2 or more others (given that is the case), then they would probably tell the story as it happened because they would be impressed that it turned out that way.  What may probably happen if it was one on one and the friends were there as witnesses and you won, they would probably pick their friend up and tell him he got what he deserved and get out of there because none of them would want to stick around either with the possibility of everyone getting in trouble. *



Not always.
Person A is the mugger. Person B is the backup to prevent you from running away. Or Person A is the distraction while Person B picks your pocket. Or Person A attacks and Person B "saves" you to gain your confidence then offers to buy you a drink at a little bar he knows, just the next block over through this alley ... once you're off the street, then you get jumped by several guys.

There are innumerable scenarios where you don't immediately have to fight all the bad guys. If you finish the first one quickly, the other(s) may decide you're not an easy enough target ("honor among thieves" my eye).

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Not always.
> Person A is the mugger. Person B is the backup to prevent you from running away. Or Person A is the distraction while Person B picks your pocket. Or Person A attacks and Person B "saves" you to gain your confidence then offers to buy you a drink at a little bar he knows, just the next block over through this alley ... once you're off the street, then you get jumped by several guys.
> 
> ...



There are ALWAYS a number of scenarios that can occur.  I was just trying to play along with the basic question without analyzing the heck about what CAN happen with multiple opponents, guns, knives, etc.  We could go on and on about this all day.
:asian:


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *There are ALWAYS a number of scenarios that can occur.  I was just trying to play along with the basic question without analyzing the heck about what CAN happen with multiple opponents, guns, knives, etc.  We could go on and on about this all day.
> :asian: *



Yup. I was just pointing out that we can't always rely on the witnesses being on our side. Even if there are no other friends to muddy the waters, we can't really rely on the witnesses. Very often, the fight happens so quickly that the witnesses (who probalby weren't paying attention when it started) have no idea who started it. All they see is one guy ending up on the ground.

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Yup. I was just pointing out that we can't always rely on the witnesses being on our side. Even if there are no other friends to muddy the waters, we can't really rely on the witnesses. Very often, the fight happens so quickly that the witnesses (who probalby weren't paying attention when it started) have no idea who started it. All they see is one guy ending up on the ground.
> 
> Mike *



I never said i would expect witnesses to be on my side.  Just that if they didn't know who i was...the chances of me getting caught are alot slimmer.  And probably not enough to worry about.


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## vin2k0 (Apr 29, 2003)

Everything depends on the scenario. You giving us a brief outline of the 'incident' isn't enough for us to judge what we would do, i don't think. It would depend on numerous factors.


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

See if i play along ever again!  :shrug:


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## Ender (Apr 29, 2003)

oh!..very good discussion..I would leave the scene...and be wary as I did.


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## kkbb (Apr 29, 2003)

Many of you through multiple scenarios into a simple question.

(A) Do I call the police and maybe go before the judge?

(B) Do I walk away like nothing happened?

I personally would stay and call the police...  if the "punk" is already wanted for some other crimes, you may be doing the police a favor.  If you walk away he may do the same assault again on someone who is not so skilled & this time he may be successful, possibly hurting someone else.
You have the right to defend yourself no matter what the juristiction.  Chances are he's done this before and the law will be on your side.  

P.S. if he hasn't done this before then it is your word against his...and if your were the "bad" guy, you would have not called the police in the first place.


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## TLH3rdDan (Apr 29, 2003)

walk away... no sense in waiting around to see if he has any buddies near by or waiting on the police which would probably be slow as hell getting there


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kkbb _
> I personally would stay and call the police...  if the "punk" is already wanted for some other crimes, you may be doing the police a favor.  If you walk away he may do the same assault again on someone who is not so skilled & this time he may be successful, possibly hurting someone else.



Great Point!  I didn't think of that!  It doesn't hurt to stack one more charge against that person, because they probably already have a stack against them already.  Not that it matters to them...obviously.  But you could be helping some defensless person down the road.  



> P.S. if he hasn't done this before then it is your word against his...and if your were the "bad" guy, you would have not called the police in the first place.



But the court doesn't care WHO called the cops first.  All they want to know is the story of WHAT happened.  And if the other person can make up a good lie or manipulate the story well, then going to court may not be a good thing.   
There is no guarantee that the law will be on your side just because he attacked you first.  You beat the crap out of him...and the law may think it was too much and you end up getting punished for it as well.


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *But the court doesn't care WHO called the cops first.  All they want to know is the story of WHAT happened.*



Don't know about that.

Here's a story that happened to a friend of my dad's (FWIW). A man broke into his house. He shot the intruder in the leg. The intruder made it out the door. Dad's friend let him go. A while later, the cops showed up at the door and arrested dad's friend. The cops told him, "Yeah, this guy is a known thief and has other breaking & entering charges. But he claims his car broke down and he was here to use th phone. You had some sort of argument and shot him. It doesn't hold any water ... but he called us and reported it so now we've got to take you in."

Dad's friend asked what he should have done. The cop responded, "You should have killed him before he got out of your yard then called us. Or called us as soon as he was out of the house."

The charges against dad's friend were dropped ... but not before he spent a few hours in jail, spent bail money, and some legal fees (when the guy brought a civil suit against him).

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Don't know about that.
> 
> Here's a story that happened to a friend of my dad's (FWIW). A man broke into his house. He shot the intruder in the leg. The intruder made it out the door. Dad's friend let him go. A while later, the cops showed up at the door and arrested dad's friend. The cops told him, "Yeah, this guy is a known thief and has other breaking & entering charges. But he claims his car broke down and he was here to use th phone. You had some sort of argument and shot him. It doesn't hold any water ... but he called us and reported it so now we've got to take you in."
> ...



That only applies to the cops, not the courts.  The cops usually take everyone to jail, and then let the courts handle it from there.  
And i do have to agree...Dead men tell no stories...except now a days with all the great testing that the medical people can do on a dead body.  But either way...no matter what you do, you will probably go to jail...if only for a little while....IF you stick around, or get caught later.

Back to the fight subject.  EVEN if you call first, you will probably go to jail, and then have to worry about court later.  IF you walk away, and the other person isn't dead, then chances of you ever having to face anything else are slim.  Unless that person makes a life goal to find you and hurt or even kill you later.


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *That only applies to the cops, not the courts.  The cops usually take everyone to jail, and then let the courts handle it from there.
> And i do have to agree...Dead men tell no stories...except now a days with all the great testing that the medical people can do on a dead body.  But either way...no matter what you do, you will probably go to jail...if only for a little while....IF you stick around, or get caught later. *



Yup. And that's where the old saw of, "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" comes in.

Personally, at this point in my life, I'd probably call the cops just because I'd rather deal with it now than spend the next couple of days wondering if the cops were going to show up. I've done that once (same scenario you described, at least in concept/results). I spent the rest of that night wondering if the guy had gotten my license plate as I drove off and whether the cops were going to show up at my door.

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Yup. And that's where the old saw of, "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" comes in.
> 
> Personally, at this point in my life, I'd probably call the cops just because I'd rather deal with it now than spend the next couple of days wondering if the cops were going to show up. I've done that once (same scenario you described, at least in concept/results). I spent the rest of that night wondering if the guy had gotten my license plate as I drove off and whether the cops were going to show up at my door.
> ...



Yep.  It sucks having to worry about something that you didn't start and couldn't prevent.


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## Nate_Hoopes (Apr 29, 2003)

I know loads of cops and they all told me to get out of there if i can, it varys by state but in some states both parties are arrested for assualt until the situation gets sorted out, as well as even if you dont have to go to court on charges he can still sue you in civil court regardless of whos fault it is/was. causing you to likely lose money time, and a host of other things. Personally im gone, witnesses or not, if they track me down later I'll just say that i didnt know i had taken him down that bad and was running to get away from him.


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nate_Hoopes _
> *if they track me down later I'll just say that i didnt know i had taken him down that bad and was running to get away from him. *



That's not bad. But, when it comes out that you're a trained MAist, it could look that much worse. "With your background, you must have known how badly you had injured him."

I suppose the backup to that would be, "Yeah, but I was afraid he might have friends nearby."

Mike


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## Nate_Hoopes (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *That's not bad. But, when it comes out that you're a trained MAist, it could look that much worse. "With your background, you must have known how badly you had injured him."
> 
> I suppose the backup to that would be, "Yeah, but I was afraid he might have friends nearby."
> ...



I don't know how easy it would be for them to get that info. It's not as though im registered in a computer somewhere or anything, They would have to ask me if i had it, to which i would reply "some, but no much, just basic stuff"  now even though that statement isnt entirely true it inst a lie either, even though i do have over 2 years of training now, it's "not much" compared to a lot of other people and what i feel i have learned are "just the basics", my sifu would probably even back me up on this one.

 he even told me once that if i was the type to want to carry a staff or escrima sticks in my car for protection and i was caught with them and questionsed by the police to just tell them i was coming from a karate lesson and to give the cop his number.


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## Kalicombat (Apr 29, 2003)

I would walk away like nothing ever happened. If in fact there was mugger number two, I'd take him out also, and still walk away but not before getting a look at one of their drivers licenses so that I knew where to look them up in the future. You know, just in case I needed to get in touch with them.....maybe get to gether, do lunch.....

Gary Catherman


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## pesilat (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nate_Hoopes _
> *I don't know how easy it would be for them to get that info. It's not as though im registered in a computer somewhere or anything, They would have to ask me if i had it, to which i would reply "some, but no much, just basic stuff"  now even though that statement isnt entirely true it inst a lie either, even though i do have over 2 years of training now, it's "not much" compared to a lot of other people and what i feel i have learned are "just the basics", my sifu would probably even back me up on this one.
> 
> he even told me once that if i was the type to want to carry a staff or escrima sticks in my car for protection and i was caught with them and questionsed by the police to just tell them i was coming from a karate lesson and to give the cop his number. *



Well, for me, it would be pretty easy. Anyone who knows me knows that I train in MA. With just a little easy searching (enter "mike casto" into google.com and you'll see what I mean), people will find that I'm an instructor who teaches classes and seminars. And they'll most likely find my bio on my webpage.

In my estimation, I'm still a toddler who's stumbled around the block a couple of times. In the big picture, my 20+ years in MA isn't a lot compared to some of my instructors with 40, 50, 60, or 70+ years. But to JQ Public, 20+ years in the martial arts and being an instructor is very impressive.

Mike


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## jeffkyle (Apr 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kalicombat _
> *I would walk away like nothing ever happened. If in fact there was mugger number two, I'd take him out also, and still walk away but not before getting a look at one of their drivers licenses so that I knew where to look them up in the future. You know, just in case I needed to get in touch with them.....maybe get to gether, do lunch.....
> 
> Gary Catherman *



Very funny!
:roflmao:


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## webpage20022003 (Apr 30, 2003)

personally, i don't like to hang around after a fight. I don't like to go to court to explain with judge why i beat him.

if i know that i will win in court, i will go . Justice delay is justice deny. I don't want to end up in jail for self defense

the idea of staying is out of my mind.

if cop shows up at my door, all i can say is "sir, i'm scared and ran away" 

if a guy can throw a punch at another, he should learn how not complain or file a lawsuit when he lost the fight.


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## yilisifu (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't believe I'd be under a legal obligation to remain on the scene, so I'd leave.  It's better than staying and possibly looking at a lawsuit later on.


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## SPP333 (Apr 30, 2003)

Yilisifu brings up a good point.  Are you under legal obligation to stay on the scene if you are attacked?  I don't think that it's probably even wise to stick around the scene, If I was to call the cops it would be from home or a near- by "safe" location.  This exact scenario actually did happen to me and I just booked outta there even though there were a few witnesses who got outta their cars and just watched the whole thing.  They really didn't see who started it.  I still don't know if the guy was trying to rob me (he was dressed better than I was), or if it was a mistake of identity, or what.  He ended up with a bloody nose and a gouged out eye and I just left him on the ground and ran like H*LL.  I debated with myself for hours about wether or not to call the police when I got home, and worried for the next 2 weeks after deciding not to.  Since nothing ever happened to me, I'm glad I didn't call the cops, It probably would have gotten me sued in civil court (at the very least.)


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## Jill666 (Apr 30, 2003)

I would call the police myself and give my statement.

Of course, being a woman, and not big, it's going to be a no-brainer for me. If some guy attacks me, I'm the underdog.

I wouldn't mention that I "have a black belt in Karate".

But if I were a man, or notably big, I think the situation would give me much more to think about. 

I would only leave the scene if I felt unsafe- and I do make a point of having bus/cab fare and my cell phone with me at all times anyway.

In theory, as martial artists, we should accept the responsibility of using our skills- but I don't necessarily feel the need to volunteer more information than necessary.


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## jeffkyle (Apr 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *I would call the police myself and give my statement.
> 
> Of course, being a woman, and not big, it's going to be a no-brainer for me. If some guy attacks me, I'm the underdog.
> ...



Even being the underdog you can still be open to a lawsuit.


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## Jill666 (Apr 30, 2003)

Absolutely. Fine. Sue me for the $545 I have in my saving account. I don't give a ratus assimus.

I have absolutely made up my mind in advance that if I have to defend myself I will- and I will accept the consequences. If convicted of assault or manslaughter I'll accept that. If sued in civil court, I'll counter sue, and if I lose, my extensive stock portfolio is all yours.  

I've long ago decided my course of action. I feel that if you study the martial arts, it is because you intend to use it if necessary. If you study medicine, it is because you intend to heal, not harm or neglect. If you buy a gun, it is because you intend to shoot the weapon, and may someday take a life with that weapon.

If you take courses of action like these, you must be aware of the worst-case scenario, and prepared to deal with it. I've made up my mind in advance so when the day comes, I will do what I consider to be the right thing for myself. I don't say that lightly.


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## pesilat (Apr 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *Absolutely. Fine. Sue me for the $545 I have in my saving account. I don't give a ratus assimus.
> 
> I have absolutely made up my mind in advance that if I have to defend myself I will- and I will accept the consequences. If convicted of assault or manslaughter I'll accept that. If sued in civil court, I'll counter sue, and if I lose, my extensive stock portfolio is all yours.
> ...



You've (IMO) hit the nail squarely on the head. We must think about these possibilities and decide our course of action _before_ we are faced with the situation. When the brown stuff hits the fan, it's too late to think about it. We have to already have our M.O. set and be prepared to do what's necessary to accomplish our predetermined agenda.

What that agenda (to leave, to stay, to call the cops, etc.) will vary from person to person. I don't think there is a "right" answer that will work for everyone. I think we should determine it all beforehand but keep things flexible enough that they can be "tweaked" in the actual situation.

This also goes for "lethal force" issues. We need to determine if we could/would kill and under what circumstances we could/would. Then, if we end up there, we need to do it without hesitation. We need to have decided it and decided that we're willing to cope with the aftermath (internal and external) if it happens.

Of course, there are no guarantees. Just because I've determined one thing in my training, I may do something completely different when faced with the reality (including freeze up completely and get my ticket punched). But determining it decisively beforehand might help and can provide guidelines if we do get into a situation where we need to use it. Ideally, our bodies and minds will fall into "automatic pilot" and do what we've trained to do.

But I think it's important to determine these things (whatever determination we make as individuals) before being faced with them.

Mike


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## Elfan (Apr 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by webpage20022003 _
> *have 1 easy question for everybody here. Take your time to answer it as it is in real situation ok?
> 
> you are walking down the street and 1 punk comes up to you and throws a punch at you. You execute techniques and the guy is on the floor. He is not dead.
> ...



Leave a sticky note listing all the injuries and then walk away.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by webpage20022003 _
> *have 1 easy question for everybody here. Take your time to answer it as it is in real situation ok?
> 
> you are walking down the street and 1 punk comes up to you and throws a punch at you. You execute techniques and the guy is on the floor. He is not dead.
> ...




If witnesses, then while executing techniques, yelling Help, Stop, Do not hurt me. Ouch, Quit it!

Why would I do this? Because the wirnesses then rememebr you saying these things, therefore the other guys most be the attacker and you were defending yourself.


Now, if the guy is down I will and have checked to make sure they have not swallowed their tongues.

Also, if questioned by the police, I do not remember what happened, he just attacked me and I just reacted to protect myself. This takes out the premeditated idea for the prosecutor if you tell them you were planning on doing xyz technique.

Also, Press Charges, so, when he presses charges, it will look mutual. Also, tell them you checked for a pulse and for the swallowed tongue and prevented others from moving him before the Parameds showed up. This shows you are not blood thirsty.


And if it looks bad for the other guy, then walk around the corner while waiting and make sure you have the bruises on your ribs or forehead, when the police arrive.

You said if this were for real.


Now, if no witnesses and no camaras, then check for pulse and tongue then leave.

:asian:


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## webpage20022003 (May 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *Absolutely. Fine. Sue me for the $545 I have in my saving account. I don't give a ratus assimus.
> 
> I have absolutely made up my mind in advance that if I have to defend myself I will- and I will accept the consequences. If convicted of assault or manslaughter I'll accept that. If sued in civil court, I'll counter sue, and if I lose, my extensive stock portfolio is all yours.
> ...




accepting responsibility is a good thing but if you end up going to jail or being broke and can't support yourself and your family member, your responsibility to yourself and these individuals is no good.

spending more than 1 year in jail to think about your responsibility in fighting is a heck of a deal , don't you think?

i rather spend time doing what best for myself, my family, and my country than in jail


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## Billy Lear (May 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by webpage20022003 _
> *accepting responsibility is a good thing but if you end up going to jail or being broke and can't support yourself and your family member, your responsibility to yourself and these individuals is no good.
> 
> spending more than 1 year in jail to think about your responsibility in fighting is a heck of a deal , don't you think?
> ...



I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. :asian:


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## webpage20022003 (May 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Billy Lear _
> *I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. :asian: *



i hope 12 members don't put you in jail or ask you to pay a heavy fine for dending yourself :soapbox:


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## Rich Parsons (May 1, 2003)

Well to be honest, I do not believe that even an apointed attourney could not get Jill off of an Assault charge.

" Your honor and the Jury, please look at this figure of a women. (* Dressed in a dress or other feminine clothing *), how could she attack this (* insert picture of 6' + 200 lbs + guy *)."


It is about perceptions, in the court room. It is about perceptions with the police. It is about perceptions with the ADA on your case. If you can convince the police that it was self defense this is the beginning. If the witnesses, agree, so much the better. If youend up being questioned by a detective and or an ADA. Answer the first question. Yes that is my name. You should ask for a lawyer. Many times, they will turn off the tape recorder at that point. Still insist on your lawyer.

If you ask how does this bozo know???

Been There Done That!, I did not get the T-Shirt, because I persuaded them to realize that a nice upstanding College Student or Engineer, has a much better chance of being on defense then those who were either unemployed or . . .

So, perceptions, are the key. And playing to a Jury after you are still alive, is how many people believe and react.

I will tell you, in the real situation, you do not stop to think about what will happen to me after this over. You are only trying to survive and be alive for the next 30 seconds. Once it is over, then adrenaline dump shock sets in and you might get the shakes and start thinking. Remember at this time you do not answer any questions other than I do not know what happened or can I talk to a lawyer, if you think it is serious.

Just my lowly opinions from my time on the wrong side of the streets.

Have A Nice Day!


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## jfarnsworth (May 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Just my lowly opinions from my time on the wrong side of the streets.*



Cheer up big bro. I still like 'ya.


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## satans.barber (May 1, 2003)

I reckon I'd stay until the police got there - you're going to be in more trouble of the wander off and then they come looking for you than if you 'fess up I think; looks like you've got something to hide otherwise...

Ian.


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## KanoLives (May 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by webpage20022003 _
> *have 1 easy question for everybody here. Take your time to answer it as it is in real situation ok?
> 
> you are walking down the street and 1 punk comes up to you and throws a punch at you. You execute techniques and the guy is on the floor. He is not dead.
> ...




Personally.....I'm outta there like a fat kid in a dodge ball game.  
And depending on how bad I messed the dude up I may or may not call him an ambulance. :asian:


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## KEMPO DAVE (May 6, 2003)

I'd walk away and pretend nothing happened. Because nothing did...


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## jdmills (May 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SPP333 _
> *Yilisifu brings up a good point.  Are you under legal obligation to stay on the scene if you are attacked?  I don't think that it's probably even wise to stick around the scene, If I was to call the cops it would be from home or a near- by "safe" location.  This exact scenario actually did happen to me and I just booked outta there even though there were a few witnesses who got outta their cars and just watched the whole thing.  They really didn't see who started it.  I still don't know if the guy was trying to rob me (he was dressed better than I was), or if it was a mistake of identity, or what.  He ended up with a bloody nose and a gouged out eye and I just left him on the ground and ran like H*LL.  I debated with myself for hours about wether or not to call the police when I got home, and worried for the next 2 weeks after deciding not to.  Since nothing ever happened to me, I'm glad I didn't call the cops, It probably would have gotten me sued in civil court (at the very least.) *



True but you are making an extremely common mistake in that you are using the fact that you were attacked (a fact that you would be trying to prove) to show that you had no obligation to remain on the scene.  I'm an attorney.  My opinion is that what I would do would depend on the situation (witnesses, weapons, . . .) and how badly the guy was hurt.  If the cops find a body, or someone really badly injured, they will investigate.  Maybe they find you, maybe not, but generally the fact that you left the scene after you inflicted a very serious injury on an attacker will not be helpful when (if) you need to  explain what happend to the cops.  The other problem is that the injured guy will probably get to explain the situation to the cops first and when the cops investigate, they will look at the site as a "crime scene" and will be speaking to you (again if they find you) as a "suspect".  Not a situation I would put myself into if I could avoid it.

Generally, if the guy was badly hurt and would probably need hospital care, I'd stay but if he was just superficially injured, I'd probably go.  If he had a weapon, I'd almost certainly stay to ensure the cops got it.  Witness would make me more likely to stay.

Just my opinion for what it's worth.


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## J-kid (May 11, 2003)

Take his wallet and leave, maybe take off his shoes put them tie them together and throw them over a telephone wire(depending on weather).


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## webpage20022003 (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Judo-kid _
> *Take his wallet and leave, maybe take off his shoes put them tie them together and throw them over a telephone wire(depending on weather). *



why would you want to do something like this?

why not take his pant off and hang on the trees ????


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## ken_loc (May 11, 2003)

I would walk away quick, theres no way I would stand around and wait because it's usually the aggressor, right or wrong that gets in trouble.


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## pineapple head (May 11, 2003)

I would hit him as hard as could.
He came onto me and deserved whatever he gets.His problem.
I have little time for the people in this world who want to hurt me.
I would certainly walk away. Do i deserve this , NO I DO NOT.
I work hard all day , support my family and in general i am a good citazen.


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## jeffkyle (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *Leave a sticky note listing all the injuries and then walk away. *



Very Funny!  :rofl: :roflmao:


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## jdmills (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pineapple head _
> *I would hit him as hard as could.
> He came onto me and deserved whatever he gets.His problem.
> I have little time for the people in this world who want to hurt me.
> ...



The question isn't whether you deserved it, it's what to do now.  
Someone is down and hurt.  It is unclear how badly.  You are responsible for the guy being down.  You may have been justified but you are still the one that put him in that condition.  Maybe you could have used less force, run away, given up your wallet, whatever.  This is not to say that you should have done any of the above and you may have been 100% justified in dropping the clown.  

If the guy is seriously injured, police will be involved.  Maybe they can find you, maybe not, but if they find you and come to you, I'd be willing to bet that you will wish that you had stayed and spoken with them first.

I'm not saying that the answer is to stay, all I'm saying is that the "I didn't deserve this will get no mileage when the cops show up at your door regarding the "assault".


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## jeffkyle (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jdmills _
> *The question isn't whether you deserved it, it's what to do now.
> Someone is down and hurt.  It is unclear how badly.  You are responsible for the guy being down.  You may have been justified but you are still the one that put him in that condition.  Maybe you could have used less force, run away, given up your wallet, whatever.  This is not to say that you should have done any of the above and you may have been 100% justified in dropping the clown.
> 
> ...



Very good points!  I do agree.  The cops don't care about your reasons WHY you did what you did...especially if you leave the scene.  All they want to do is punish you for WHAT you did.  And the worse the damage...the rougher they are going to make it on you!  That is why...when you see yourself winning...do whatever it takes to make sure he doesn't come at you again...and not any more than that.  If you had to get that severe, then it may be best to stick around.  :idunno: 
The best possible answer for this whole scenario and everywhere it could go is probably...."It all depends"!  :asian:


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## jdmills (May 11, 2003)

The other thing to remember is that police officers at the scene in an initial investigation may just write it up as self defense if you are there to explain the situation.  That way there will probably be no prosecutor or judge involved. If the only one there to explain is the mugger who will now claim to be a victim of a mugging or assault, the police are FAR more likely to really investigate and give you a serious problem (again assuming that they can find you).


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## webpage20022003 (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pineapple head _
> *I would hit him as hard as could.
> He came onto me and deserved whatever he gets.His problem.
> I have little time for the people in this world who want to hurt me.
> ...



certainly agree with that.


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## webpage20022003 (May 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jdmills _
> *The other thing to remember is that police officers at the scene in an initial investigation may just write it up as self defense if you are there to explain the situation.  That way there will probably be no prosecutor or judge involved. If the only one there to explain is the mugger who will now claim to be a victim of a mugging or assault, the police are FAR more likely to really investigate and give you a serious problem (again assuming that they can find you). *



i don't mind to wait for the police but i have to go to jail and eventually go to court to explain what is going on. It's not worth it.

when you apply for a job, your record shows that you are in jail for a few hours. It doesn't look good in the resume, does it?

when it comes to self-defense, the intention of the agressor is to hurt you or try to steal thing away from you. Of course, that is why he comes to you because he thinks that you will be his next victim.

you only have 2 choices: you hurt him or he hurts you. What is going to be ?

2 more points need to make

police will know who is fault even though you are not at the scene.

a good person doesn't go around and tries to beat everybody up.

if the bad guy claims that he is robbed, the police will ask him what he lost. If he doesn't show what he lost, he is in heap of trouble.


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## jdmills (May 12, 2003)

How is the guy going to show what he lost?  He lost it!  He can claim he lost money, or anything.

I don't know how a detention would show up on any search.  Arrests, sometimes and certainly convictions.  I am asked about an assault arrest on any application, I don't think it would hurt me to say that the charges were dropped as soon as I convinced the prosecutor that I acted in self defense woul hurt me.

Convice the cops that you acted in self defense when the arrive at the scene and you will not have any problems.

I really wish that some of the experienced law enforcement types that are on this site would provide their opinion here.  My opinion as an attorney is only one aspect and they know more about what happens at a scene and in an investigation than I probably ever will.  If my thinking is erroneous, I'd sure like to know it before I hang around to be arrested.


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## webpage20022003 (May 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jdmills _
> *How is the guy going to show what he lost?  He lost it!  He can claim he lost money, or anything.
> 
> I don't know how a detention would show up on any search.  Arrests, sometimes and certainly convictions.  I am asked about an assault arrest on any application, I don't think it would hurt me to say that the charges were dropped as soon as I convinced the prosecutor that I acted in self defense woul hurt me.
> ...



if you are a bag guy and try to steal money from other, you will give the wallet back ? or you will take the whole wallet ? how about a watch or any jewelry he is wearing?

if these things are still there, a foolish cop will believe it. The amount of time, money and anxiety you will put in your defense...a lot of things to think about

CONVINCE is a very big word in this case. How are you going to convince other that you defend yourself ?. Will they believe you ?
a bad guy will turn around and sue you for hurting him.

i  don't have a lot of times and money to waste in this case



> *
> 
> I really wish that some of the experienced law enforcement types that are on this site would provide their opinion here.  My opinion as an attorney is only one aspect and they know more about what happens at a scene and in an investigation than I probably ever will.  If my thinking is erroneous, I'd sure like to know it before I hang around to be arrested. *



need more law enforcement officers in this topic so that we know what is going on. Agree on that


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## SRyuFighter (May 12, 2003)

I would just walk away if the cops caught up to me then I would tell them what happened.


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