# Spyderco's Folding Karambit



## OUMoose (May 26, 2004)

Check this out.  I've always had good experiences with Spyderco products and was thinking of picking one up.  Problem is, I haven't found anyone local who has one in stock to "play" with in the store.  Has anyone seen one, or perhaps bought one to train with?  What are your thoughts?


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## OULobo (May 26, 2004)

I got to handle one. I see them mostly at gun shows. The local blade shop still doesn't have one though. The thing is small. Really small. The blade is a very tight curve and the opening is really awkward. Even worse the ring is tight and doesn't allow good motion. Overall, despite the quality I like in Spyderco, I'm not impressed with the design.


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## OUMoose (May 26, 2004)

Hmmm.  Disappointing news.  

I've heard Emerson also makes a folding Karambit, linked here, but at $250, it's a little out of my price range.


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## Michael Billings (May 26, 2004)

I am not sure I like the belt clip for actual use.  How does it fit the hand with the Karumbit's design?  Anyone???

 -Michael


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## OULobo (May 26, 2004)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  Disappointing news.
> 
> I've heard Emerson also makes a folding Karambit, linked here, but at $250, it's a little out of my price range.



Hey Moose, talk to Jay about the cheapy one he got. It's a replica of the Emerson one but much less expensive.  If you have the money get the Tarani one, if not then good lick, because I haven't found much I like for low cost options. 



			
				Michael Billings said:
			
		

> I am not sure I like the belt clip for actual use.  How does it fit the hand with the Karumbit's design?  Anyone???
> -Michael



I didn't really have a problem with the clip, just the size and shape of the handle. I know they designed it so that the blade doesn't interrupt the ring when folded, but that made the blade too short.


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## Phil Elmore (May 26, 2004)

I will be publishing a review of the Spyderco Kerambit in _The Martialist_.  I actually liked the design;  it protrudes prominently from the pocket, making it visually very obvious, but this makes the ringer ring accessible -- and that ring has a pointed contour suitable for striking.  It is amazingly sharp -- I stabbed myself in the thigh without even thinking about it -- and the broad handle fit my palm well, making the knife extremely secure despite the smooth metal construction.  If I remember my tests correctly (my notes are at the office) I did find that it took two hands to open the knife into the standard reversed kerambit grip.


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## OUMoose (May 26, 2004)

I like the Tarani's, but the lockback aspect turned me off, whereas the spyderco and emerson are linerlocks.


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## OULobo (May 26, 2004)

Sharp Phil said:
			
		

> I will be publishing a review of the Spyderco Kerambit in _The Martialist_.  I actually liked the design;  it protrudes prominently from the pocket, making it visually very obvious, but this makes the ringer ring accessible -- and that ring has a pointed contour suitable for striking.  It is amazingly sharp -- I stabbed myself in the thigh without even thinking about it -- and the broad handle fit my palm well, making the knife extremely secure despite the smooth metal construction.  If I remember my tests correctly (my notes are at the office) I did find that it took two hands to open the knife into the standard reversed kerambit grip.




I definitly won't argue with how sharp it was. On opening, I have never been able to get a Spyderco to open smoothly without heavy manipulation, even with a standard desgn, so with the under grip of a karambit I can't figure out a smooth singlehanded way to open it either. I was impressed by that and the structural design, just not the configuration. The lock seemed strong (I thought I remembered it being a frame lock, not a liner lock) and I believe has a better design for strength than back lock.


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## Michael Billings (May 26, 2004)

You want to see an easy opening Spyderco see here for the [font=arial, helvetica]* 						Bram Frank  Gunting*[/font] (sub-set "Martial Blade Craft) at $169 it is reasonable, but a tough concealed carry due the design for pressure point works.  It opens so easily, that you have to be very careful even pulling it out of your pocket or waistband, or the "Kinetic Opening" opens on you or your clothes and then you bleed?

 -Michael


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## arnisador (May 26, 2004)

Ditto on the Gunting.

I would like to get a folding karambit so I am watching to see people's experiences with them!


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## arnisandyz (May 26, 2004)

I have an Emerson Folding Kerambit.  Picked it up for about half of the retail price on ebay for $130 (it is the real one)!  i like it, the Wave was the selling point for me.  If your not familiar with it, theres a small hook that catches on the pocket so it opens as you draw it.  Its the fastest draw i've ever seen, pretty much like its a fixed blade.


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## Rich Parsons (May 26, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> I have an Emerson Folding Kerambit.  Picked it up for about half of the retail price on ebay for $130 (it is the real one)!  i like it, the Wave was the selling point for me.  If your not familiar with it, theres a small hook that catches on the pocket so it opens as you draw it.  Its the fastest draw i've ever seen, pretty much like its a fixed blade.



I do not have the Emerson Kerambit, I do have other Emerson's with the Wave and I absolutely prefer them. Including the trainer of the same make. These are my prefered carry weapons, when I do not carry my pens. 

If the Kerambit Wave is anything like the Wave I have (* CQC-7B/Trainer *) then it should be a good piece to add to your collection.

 :asian:


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## arnisandyz (May 26, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I do not have the Emerson Kerambit, I do have other Emerson's with the Wave and I absolutely prefer them. Including the trainer of the same make. These are my prefered carry weapons, when I do not carry my pens.
> 
> If the Kerambit Wave is anything like the Wave I have (* CQC-7B/Trainer *) then it should be a good piece to add to your collection.
> 
> :asian:



Rich,

Add that wave feature to the kerambits attributes, namely the finger hole, and you have one fast draw. i've never had to pull it out in a defensive situation under stress, but in everyday life, that loop makes it easy to find and pull out, i can only imagine that would aid in aquiring your weapon when you need really need it.


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## arnisandyz (May 26, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I do not have the Emerson Kerambit, I do have other Emerson's with the Wave and I absolutely prefer them. Including the trainer of the same make. These are my prefered carry weapons, when I do not carry my pens.
> 
> If the Kerambit Wave is anything like the Wave I have (* CQC-7B/Trainer *) then it should be a good piece to add to your collection.
> 
> :asian:



Rich,

They also make a trainer for the Kerambit,  I looked at it, but considering the wave feature and how its pretty much like pulling a fixed blade, I just decided to make my own non-folding version with a clip.  It feels very close to the real one, and I practice my draw solo with my live blade.


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## arnisador (May 26, 2004)

Do you mean you use it as a utility knife?

I've seen the waverider on *Renegade*'s CQC-7.

I'll have to check e-Bay! I was hoping to get one for closer to $100, but I do want a decent one.


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## arnisandyz (May 26, 2004)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Do you mean you use it as a utility knife?
> 
> 
> Arnisador,
> ...


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## Phil Elmore (May 26, 2004)

We'll be publishing a review of the Emerson Kerambit as well.


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## OUMoose (May 27, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback all of you.  If I had my choice, I'd go with the fixed blade Strider, or one of the large blades from Kris Cutlery, but that's REALLY out of my price range right now.  

Think I'll stop by the "cutlery" store and see if they have an Emerson I can throw around, to see how it feels.  Thanks again!  :asian:


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## Stick Dummy (May 27, 2004)

I think some knucklehead dida review of the Emerson, Tarani, & Strider Karambits for Martial Talk magazines Feb 04 issue.

I have one of the Emersons and is is FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's become my work & play EDC, totally awesome blade! artyon:


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## dearnis.com (May 27, 2004)

I have been playing with the m-tech knock-off of the emerson.  fit and finish are what you would expect in a $10.00 knife; the liner lock is much stronger than I expected.  Utility of the design is very good.  The wave (or faux wave if you like, it is a knock-off) rocks on this design!
Biggest problem is the cost of a good one.  $130 for an emerson sounds great; the list prices I am seeing are simply out of line for what you get and what is involved.


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## Stick Dummy (May 30, 2004)

dearnis,

You get what you pay for.............

 If price is an issue, save for a little while longer and get something of better quality.

 Incidently, its really too bad you could not down and train with Seig's group on the past Wed, or Friday.  We had a great time and I could have let you grope a couple Karambits and experience the difference between a POS ripoff like the M-yucks and the "Big Dogs" of the field.


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## Guro Harold (May 30, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> Even worse the ring is tight and doesn't allow good motion. Overall, despite the quality I like in Spyderco, I'm not impressed with the design.



Is the ring designed for individuals with big hands?


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## OULobo (May 30, 2004)

Palusut said:
			
		

> Is the ring designed for individuals with big hands?


I got my finger through it without too much trouble, but I couldn't grip the handle and have the ring rest in the "sweet spot", if you know what I mean.

StickDummy: I usually agree with you, especially on performance, but I have come to find that the amount of time I wear a blade and the situations I sometimes get into often propegate losing or "permently hiding" a blade. With that being the case I would rather not be losing or hiding a $250 blade.


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## Stick Dummy (May 30, 2004)

OUlobo

:lol: Thats what they make knife lanyards for...................


 If you have LARGE "paws", then the Blade-Tech Tarani design may better suit you as the safety ring is significantly larger in diameter. Its slightly slower to deploy, but somebody on another site posted some pix showing a presentation from the pocket, ala two hand pistol draw that when i tried it worked amazingly well!

The only way to truely get a Karambit to fit perfect is to have it handmade.


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## arnisandyz (May 30, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> Even worse the ring is tight and doesn't allow good motion. Overall, despite the quality I like in Spyderco, I'm not impressed with the design.




the Emerson ring is also a little small (I like it, but  i have small hands). In addition, the G10 scales are pretty grabby, so if you like spinning it in extended position its a bit abrasive.


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## arnisador (May 30, 2004)

There was a lanyard discussion on Eskrima Digest not long ago. I am reluctant to get tied down to anything, myself!


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## Stick Dummy (May 31, 2004)

Arnisador,


  That comment was a poor attempt at humor on my part...........

The Spyderco is an interesting design , yet to me by design is not a true  Karambit. 

 The safety ring on the versions I have seen illustrated here and there does not look like extension & retraction could be accomplished at speed.

 Blade orientation to the handle also seems less than desirable for most of the Pencak Silat techniques that I am aware of.


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## OULobo (May 31, 2004)

In terms of silat techniques, so could be accomplished with the folders, but not all (no spins or reverse slices). The rest could be applied with a folder, but any old school silat guy would complain right off the bat about the length, shape and the lack of rear barbs.


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## dearnis.com (Jun 1, 2004)

You get what you pay for, but.....
You mean to tell me that sooo much R&D went into the kerambit it justifies, say in the emerson line, an MSRP nearly $100 higher than many of his other blades.  Quality is fine, and emerson makes a good blade, but me thinks there is just a bit of price boosting going on due to the trendyness of the design!


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## arnisandyz (Jun 1, 2004)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> You get what you pay for, but.....
> You mean to tell me that sooo much R&D went into the kerambit it justifies, say in the emerson line, an MSRP nearly $100 higher than many of his other blades.  Quality is fine, and emerson makes a good blade, but me thinks there is just a bit of price boosting going on due to the trendyness of the design!



I work for an Advertising & Marketing Firm and from experiences, I am most certain the increased price is due to the popularity and hype of the kerambit and not all R&D, material costs. Basically if people are willing to pay 'x' amount, then that is what is charged. Alot of effort goes into studying market trends, surveying competition etc, to try and determine what the retail price should be. Usually if demand is high, so is the price. In many cases, manufacturers price themselves over the "sweet spot" (balance of selling more units for less $ or less units for more $) and then lower thier prices to bring it back to a more favorable margin. Sometimes its quality or exclusivity (custom knife) that justifies a higher price. IMHO - the Emerson is a well made production knife, but they missed the mark on the $240 retail.


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## OULobo (Jun 1, 2004)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> You get what you pay for, but.....
> You mean to tell me that sooo much R&D went into the kerambit it justifies, say in the emerson line, an MSRP nearly $100 higher than many of his other blades.  Quality is fine, and emerson makes a good blade, but me thinks there is just a bit of price boosting going on due to the trendyness of the design!



This is soooo true. That is why I am not jumping up and buying any of the expensive ones right now. Give it a little time for  the hype to wear off, helped by time for people to realize that it's not as easy a design to handle without training. The fact is that the karambit's advantages are not intuitive. It is a short range wep, with limited obvious attack methods. The real question is how long will the big companies have to loose money before they swallw thier pride and reduce the price, or will they just cancel the design and call it a limited run collectors peice.


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## OUMoose (Jun 1, 2004)

I always chuckle under my breath when someone picks up the stryder that's been waiting for me at the local toy store and holds it saber grip (point out), looking around like they're hot... well, you know...

Still haven't found anyone who had the Emerson in stock to play with, but that price tag others have mentioned is still looking awful nasty.


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## dearnis.com (Jun 4, 2004)

Which brings us back to why I have been playing with the cheap knock-offs.  Something else to consider; if you are carrying a $200+ custom/semi-custom blade for defensive purposes, and actually deploy it (not necessarily cut with it) it is going into an evidence locker for a long time, regardless of how "right" you may have been.
Thoughts?


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 4, 2004)

Yeppers, what ever floats your boat I guess.

  I have a buddy that travels pretty extensively, and purchases some cheap paring/ steak knives at Big Lots, or Dollar General, and then disposes of them before the air trip home..............


  Tools & Training are alike, you get what you pay for.


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## arnisandyz (Jun 4, 2004)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Which brings us back to why I have been playing with the cheap knock-offs.  Something else to consider; if you are carrying a $200+ custom/semi-custom blade for defensive purposes, and actually deploy it (not necessarily cut with it) it is going into an evidence locker for a long time, regardless of how "right" you may have been.
> Thoughts?



Problem with the cheap knock offs is the quality.  Is the mechanism, opening or locking, going to fail under pressure?  Compare the quality of the knockoffs to the original and make your best assumption.  I'm not saying the original is failproof, but I personally would trust it more.  Is that worth an extra $180?  to me it is.  I look at it like insurance, some people do fine without it, I'd rather be covered.  If your cheapo knife fails you, you might not be around to claim it (in evidence)!


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## dearnis.com (Jun 5, 2004)

Very true.....but as I think I posted above, I could not get the liner lock to fail (kevlar glove, beat spine on workbench test...unscientific I know....)
more on the topic to follow


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