# Which way of JKD do you do?



## Flatlander

Are you a "concepts" or a"Jun Fan" JKD'er?


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## brothershaw

Whats the difference between the 2? I dont study jkd so I dont know.


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## achilles

I don't think the two are  mutually exclusive.  Most of my training has come from the Inosanto school of thought, and as such I have had healthy doses of both Bruce Lee's material and the more contemporary cross-training perspective.  I guess by association I'm a "concepts" man, but I fight right lead, use interception, use longest weapon to closest target, use chung chuies and juk teks, and express many other so-called "OJKD" features.  According to my Sifu, JKDC and OJKD are two sides of the same coin.  Bruce Lee's original teachings are my main area of concentration, but I think there are a lot of other usefull lessons to be learned.  About 85% of my repetoire is JKD, but there are tactics and tools from submission wrestling have helped my understanding of grappling, refining certain JKD elements and covering areas that JKD originally did not.  In the field of weapons, Kali is my main influence (fencing to some degree as well), but I approach it in a very JKD format (quality over quantity, interception in long range, broken rhythm, etc.).  Personally, I think that anyone who claims to express JKD should be educated in the art of JKD.


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## Aikia

Flatlander,
You might find this interesting. When I was a Korean karate student in the 1960's I remember that we thought that Bruce Lee taught (g)kung fu. No karate man wanted to learn "kung fu", at least not at the time. Bruce asked some of his students like Joe Lewis to list as their art JKD (Bruce's system of non-classical gung fu) when they registered for a tournament. They wouldn't do it because ,like I said no self respecting karate man would  change to Kung Fu. Times have changed haven't they?

Years later a magazine editor asked me to travel to Charlotte NC to write an article on Larry Hartsell's JKD club. Once thare I was introduced to Dan Inosanto. Over the next five years I wrote dozens of articles about what Dan had termed the JKD "Concept. My 1988 book "The JKD Experience" highlighted the concepts method. All the time it was becomming evident that this concepts JKD was not exactly like the JKD that Bruce demonstrated and taught. As JKD columnists for Karate International from 1989-1995 I received far too many requests for information on what was then being called Bruce Lee's JKD. So here we had an interest in what physical skills Bruce taught versus the "New" JKD that I had promoted as the "Concepts method". In the concepts the "Chinese" influence had been replaced by the "Filipino" influence. Both worked.
Both were JKD, just different.
 I remembered that in the early 1990's the Coca Cola Company had a similar experience.   The "Coke" product had been around for years. To compete with the sweeter tasting Pepsi Cola, Coke decided to change their formula. Thus was conceived the concept of "New Coke". Perhaps you remember it. Everyone benefited. More people were drinking Coke. Some liked New Coke. Others liked "ORIGINAL" Coke. I thought why not promote the idea of "Original JKD"!!!!!
I began to write about "Original JKD" in my columns. In 1990 I helped conceive an article for IKF magazine calling for a return to the Roots of the Original Art.

In 1993 I partnered with former Bruce Lee students Ted Wong and Howard Williams to promote the first "Original JKD" camp in Radford VA. Many others had by then entered the Original JKD school. And it stuck. You had the Inosanto influenced JKD Concept which was Bruce Lee's JKD at a highly evolved level.  Keep in mind that Dan Inosanto is a martial arts genius certainly able to continue and advance the art once designed by his mentor. Guys like the very talented Paul Vunak were promoting the concepts.     And you had  increasing numbers now interested in bypassing the kail/Thai etc arts and going straight for the physical skills once practiced and taught by Bruce Lee. Both were the same yet different. It's the diference in defining JKD as "no art as art" and "no way as way". Maybe someone will ask me about that.
  Because of the return to Original JKD almost all students formerly trained by Bruce Lee were now being contracted to teach  that which Bruce Lee had taught them. Every one benefited. There was more JKD and more of an audience interested in what Bruce Lee taught. Until one group decided that they should be the only true expression of JKD.
I equally support both original (OJKD) and the JKD Concepts (JKDC).
Since I have no JKD school nor have I ever wanted to teach physical skills and identify them as JKD I have no reason to oppose either side. In fact it could be  argued that since  Bruce closed his JKD kwoons in 1971 and disbanded the practice, JKD  more accurately reflects (is )a philosophy...a way to find liberation from the limitations imposed by fixed styles.

I have looked over this site and found much misinformation regarding me and my connection to JKD. I'll bet there will be some questions. Please no name calling.......even if you think I deserve it.

Jerry Beasley,E.d.D.
Black Belt Magazine 
Hall of Fame
Instructor of the Year 2000
www.aikia.net


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## Flatlander

Good post.  I don't feel that there is any good reason to prefer OJKD over concepts or vice versa either.  The fact is there are not enough people doing it, so, the more, the merrier!


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## Baytor

I consider myself more of a concepts person.  I did that and some kali for awhile, but now I'm working on my standing grappling by training in Combat Hapkido.  I just like the philosophy behind JKD, and never really got into the whole "it must be this way or that way".


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## achilles

The so-called "concepts" approach really is just an extention of the original.  At its heart, the concepts approach is research and development.  This can be applied to both the original material as well as the assimilation of new material, both within reason.  I've trained with some people whose idea of research and development was to refine their fundamental techniques, and others who have looked to make their art more complete.  Some seek depth and others seek breadth.  Ideally we could simultaneously do both, but most of us will have to seek balance between the two and cope.  On one hand, if your fundamental tools are weak, you will lack the ability to perform at the required level in combat.  On the other, if you you get to attached to one skill set it is likely that you will be weak in another; a weakness that may be easily exploited.  These are the potential problems as I see it in being on either pole of the OJKD vs. JKDC debate.  Either extreme, as far as all out combat goes, seems to fall short.  Each practitioner must find a balance.


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## ThuNder_FoOt

I practice Concepts as it contains OJKD within it.


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## Aikia

I just finished a rather long post for the thread "something I've been pondering". Much of what I said applies to this post as well. It may help members better understand the OJKD/JKDC definitions.

Dr.Beasley


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## Andrew Green

You all fail!

The answer too "which way?" is "no way"!

Now Go copy out the Tao of JKD 50 times from front to back....


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## Gaidheal

Although it is not listed in my "arts" bit, I do JKD as well.  It is not listed there because.... I don't consider it an art.  Rather it is an approach of my own, to Martial Arts, which Bruce Lee shared and popularized before I was born.  This makes me a "concepts" guy, I guess and I have voted as such, for what it is worth.  However, I would tend to also say what has already been said "Concepts includes Jun Fan JKD".  After all, we supposedly research all arts and take the "best of breed" from everything we meet, right?  And Bruce has plenty to teach in that regard.  I personally find his personal training régime to be well worth studying and adapting - he was very innovative and many of his ideas are similar to Choi's on "Theory of Power", for example and the general approach is alive and well today in the 'combatives'. 
Just my thoughts...

John


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## Aikia

Gaidheal,
You have the right idea.  The USA has always been known as a melting pot society. We take the best from other cultures and develope an uniquely "American" way of life. In the 1960's Americans like Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis began to mix the various styles in tournaments. Ed Parker had already began a new kempo system based on "using what works". By 1967 Bruce Lee had entered the picture with his JKD approach. The theme of 1960's American Karate was "Use what works" regardless of the source. Today most independent thinking martial artists have adapted this same philosophy. JKD, whether original or concepts is about achieveing freedom from fixed styles. It's an American ideal. No wonder it's so popular among martial artists of all styles.
Jerry Beasley


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## Gaidheal

Well a) I am not American, as you might work out from my location... although since most of your names are taken from the UK anyway...

b) That approach is centuries old.. but every so often things become dogmatic again until someone / some group revisits the old idea of "Use what works, drop what don't, look at others for inspiration"

John

[edit] Added below

P.S.  I am not saying 'American' (US) is bad, or denying anything you said.  Re-read it and realized it might come over that way ;¬)


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## ace

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Are you a "concepts" or a"Jun Fan" JKD'er?



Having No Way as a Way?????


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## James Kovacich

There really is no "O" or "C" they are "@" halves of the "whole"  both incomplete without each other. Bruce said:

"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."

We are one JKD family, some good, some bad, some strong, some weak, always DIFFERANT but one JKD family!


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## Fluid Design ®

I agree with you on that akja, JKD is just well, JKD.  The core is still intact, the only thing different is the interpretations that one might have and because of that, will take it in different directions.  Now don't confuse this with freely interpreting JKD but I'm more advocating of the deep investigation of this core that is JKD; understanding why the things, and how the things make up JKD what it is.


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## 9RingsSensei

I guess I do both, for I began training by referencing his books, and by training with a Jun Fan kickboxing instructor In Arizona. But I am now getting certification in Original as well, but I use concepts, and original together, so its one universal training of the entire JKD system. I thyink its good to cross train them both so you get the whole picture of the material Bruce Himself taught, and what his art has progressed into with the times.


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## blackbeltedbeauty

I was taught abit of JKD by my boyfriend and I found it extremely difficult. All the hand manipulations and such were hard to manuever. Maybe it's cause I started out in TKD or something, I dunno. I picked up TKD alot easier but I know JKD is more practical. I'm sticking with TKD for now but might get back into JKD later as Bruce Lee is my hero! Peace!


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## achilles

JKD is actually very simple at its core.  All the complexities come from different arrangements of the basics.  One of my biggest revelations about trapping is that there are really only five basic traps (along with a couple of variations). A good JKD program will hand things in a progressive manner, but the basics, like in pretty much any art, are the most important.  For my own training it's side kicks and straight leads, practicing speed, power and form.

The real sophistication is in learning to control the timing and distance.


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## still learning

Hello, Each of you are right if it is that's the way you learn it. We all follow our tearchers' way. because that is the way he remember it. Many of the JKD instructors learn things from Bruce Lee at different times. Bruce was always changing and learning at the same time. What do you think? ...my thoughts only....aloha


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## brothershaw

i dont practice jkd but from reading different threads it sounds like jkd is just about everything Bruce lee was supposedly trying to get away from. 
1- Different people who learned from him at different times thinking what he taught them is the "true way" ( sounds just like wing chun, and also aikido, and some japanese budo) 
2- Disputes over lineage
3- People randomly quote the old masters sayings like its the gospel ( i.e wing chun limited bruce so he moved on) without necesarrily knowing what the original speaker meant or the context
4-Etc.,etc.

I am not knocking jkd, just saying that like anything else that may start out good people tend to ruin it with b.s. 

Not to be a troll but..........
    Thousands if not millions of people by now have joined martial arts schools and quit before they reached instructor level (because they didnt like the teacher, the style, the uniform, didnt feel comfortable with it, that doesnt make the style any less valid)


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## James Kovacich

brothershaw said:
			
		

> i dont practice jkd but from reading different threads it sounds like jkd is just about everything Bruce lee was supposedly trying to get away from.
> 1- Different people who learned from him at different times thinking what he taught them is the "true way" ( sounds just like wing chun, and also aikido, and some japanese budo)
> 2- Disputes over lineage
> 3- People randomly quote the old masters sayings like its the gospel ( i.e wing chun limited bruce so he moved on) without necesarrily knowing what the original speaker meant or the context
> 4-Etc.,etc.
> 
> I am not knocking jkd, just saying that like anything else that may start out good people tend to ruin it with b.s.
> 
> Not to be a troll but..........
> Thousands if not millions of people by now have joined martial arts schools and quit before they reached instructor level (because they didnt like the teacher, the style, the uniform, didnt feel comfortable with it, that doesnt make the style any less valid)


 You without even realizing where you coming from were in the ball partk, so to speak. This thread really should not be. There is no "which way."

The "O" and "C" are both incomplete without the other, two halves of the whole. ONE JKD FAMILY. We all know what Bruce said about JKD:
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."


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## Flatlander

Yes, of course, there is an "ideal" way that people should view the situation.  That doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who claim to be doing one or the other.  The intent of the thread was to see how that broke down into numbers, not to convince them that they are wrong in their approach.  

For reference, these guys claim to be doing "concepts".

This article describes another approach, wherein Bruce Lee's Original methods are being preserved.  From the article:  





> We can speculate forever on what Bruce Lee would have done had he lived, but to represent Bruce Lee properly, the only way is to preserve what we know for sure what he practiced and professed.


So it is clear that there are differences in the ways that practitioners are viewing Jeet Kune Do.  

:asian:


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## James Kovacich

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Yes, of course, there is an "ideal" way that people should view the situation.  That doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who claim to be doing one or the other.  The intent of the thread was to see how that broke down into numbers, not to convince them that they are wrong in their approach.
> 
> For reference, these guys claim to be doing "concepts".
> 
> This article describes another approach, wherein Bruce Lee's Original methods are being preserved.  From the article:
> So it is clear that there are differences in the ways that practitioners are viewing Jeet Kune Do.
> 
> :asian:



First you have to understand "who" JKD.com.hk are. After the Jun Fan Nucleus disbanded there was a couple of people who held on to "something that was destined to be nothing." They are now recruiting "new members."

Whats the use? Without the "original members" it means nothing.

Ted Wong and Tommy Gong.

Although Ted was Bruces Friend thats as far as it goes. He can't trap and will not try to teach it because he can't do it. Basicly he teaches kickboxing but without the ring experience. Sounds harsh but true.

Tommy Gong is a backstabber who did not even know my Sifu on 
http://www.taoofgungfu.com/
but felt the need to speak up for certain members of the Oakland school. (This was at a meeting of the original Oakland students and he should have not been there in the first place) What the hell, Tommy was never a part of the Oakland school. He had no buisness in "their politics." Secondly, I saw the tape, he was nowhere to be found after "stepping up to the plate." He left the ones he was defending to "fend for themselves."

All arts have politics. But if you jump in the water, you need to able to swim.

Beleive me for a moment. I come from "one side and I admit that there should be no sides." Dosen't that say something? :asian:


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## Flatlander

Man, I think that you have completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.  Let me clarify.  People have different views.  This was an exercise to see how JKD practitioners who are members of Martial Talk define what they do.  This was not an exercise in arguing the validity of those positions.  I am not here to promote any specific camp.  

I believe that all are entitled to their own ways and beliefs.  People will choose to do what works for them.  People will identify their own gods, and worship them.  This is the way of things.


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## James Kovacich

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Man, I think that you have completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.  Let me clarify.  People have different views.  This was an exercise to see how JKD practitioners who are members of Martial Talk define what they do.  This was not an exercise in arguing the validity of those positions.  I am not here to promote any specific camp.
> 
> I believe that all are entitled to their own ways and beliefs.  People will choose to do what works for them.  People will identify their own gods, and worship them.  This is the way of things.



I didn't mean to argue. I just have reason not like certain people out there and by coincidence you referanced them. 

Part of the problem is when "some people" say that JKD is merely a concept. Technically that would nulify my lineage. I don't troip on that so much anymore because I beleive that all JKD should come together as one.

Hopefully "ALL" will be represented at the Jn Fan Beach Camp next August in Huntington Beach. I will be there assissting my Sifu.


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## Flatlander

:asian:


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## James Kovacich

:asian:


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## brothershaw

jkd nucleus or concepts( i confuse the terms) whatever group that is trying to preserve bruce lees original teachings and pass them on( in an almost historical context)   

There is nothing wrong with that per se, but also thats like saying daito ryu or koryu arts worked for the samurai lets preserve them as close to what it was as possible ( even if it may not exactly be relevant anymore)

Maybe his main point was to make good fighters as quickly as possible?


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## kroh

The thing about which side one professes, is that it is ultimately pointless.  If one follows what Bruce Lee taught originally, then you are doing what Bruce did.  If you are leaving the path to find your own way...then you are doing what Bruce did.

When you look at what the guy was trying to accomplish, why would anyone try to be just like him.  Wouldn't it be better to be as original as possible?   I myself study Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do.  But to think that the way I train is eventually going to make me "Just Like Mike," so to speak, is ridiculous.   The core principles are there but ultimately my "signature" aproach to the method is going to differ from everyone else's.   Basically it is just like hand writing.  We all can read each other's writting but we can tell who wrote what...

The thing that has always bothered me about the martial arts community is all the hype and politics.  It just seems that when some one makes a claim in this country (USA) about this or that system, there is always the next guy in line to try and disprove what they have going on.  Instead of just agreeing that we are all just taking different routes to end up in the same place, martial artists seem to have this ingrained need to say that this or that method doesn't work (Testosterone express...ALL ABOARD).  

My personal opinion (and that is all this is as I am not a great MA master...just a guy who likes to train hard and throw down every once in a while) is that if you do Original JKD then that is cool.  Have fun with it.  If you have abandoned JKD in favor of JKD conceptual training...Great...Live it and love it.  Point being that we all have something we can teach each other.  Just sit back and enjoy (be thankfull that we do not use our skills for actual warfare anymore since we would not have all these cool people to interact with).  

Thanks for the minute...
Regards,
Walt


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## James Kovacich

kroh said:
			
		

> The thing about which side one professes, is that it is ultimately pointless.  If one follows what Bruce Lee taught originally, then you are doing what Bruce did.  If you are leaving the path to find your own way...then you are doing what Bruce did.
> 
> When you look at what the guy was trying to accomplish, why would anyone try to be just like him.  Wouldn't it be better to be as original as possible?   I myself study Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do.  But to think that the way I train is eventually going to make me "Just Like Mike," so to speak, is ridiculous.   The core principles are there but ultimately my "signature" aproach to the method is going to differ from everyone else's.   Basically it is just like hand writing.  We all can read each other's writting but we can tell who wrote what...
> 
> The thing that has always bothered me about the martial arts community is all the hype and politics.  It just seems that when some one makes a claim in this country (USA) about this or that system, there is always the next guy in line to try and disprove what they have going on.  Instead of just agreeing that we are all just taking different routes to end up in the same place, martial artists seem to have this ingrained need to say that this or that method doesn't work (Testosterone express...ALL ABOARD).
> 
> My personal opinion (and that is all this is as I am not a great MA master...just a guy who likes to train hard and throw down every once in a while) is that if you do Original JKD then that is cool.  Have fun with it.  If you have abandoned JKD in favor of JKD conceptual training...Great...Live it and love it.  Point being that we all have something we can teach each other.  Just sit back and enjoy (be thankfull that we do not use our skills for actual warfare anymore since we would not have all these cool people to interact with).
> 
> Thanks for the minute...
> Regards,
> Walt



Good post. I want to add that people seem to be confused about what the actual original teaching/training is. NOBODY in the JKD realm teaches solely what Bruce taught and practiced. Eveything is "modified expanded" versions which becomes "our own."


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## arnisador

Yes, you'd be hard pressed to find someone teaching it as Bruce Lee did nowadays. Many have added more grappling, just for one example.


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## Nanalo74

akja said:
			
		

> Bruce said:
> 
> "If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."


'nuff said.

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## Nanalo74

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> You all fail!
> 
> The answer too "which way?" is "no way"!
> 
> Now Go copy out the Tao of JKD 50 times from front to back....


LOL!!!


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## James Kovacich

Nanalo74 said:
			
		

> 'nuff said.
> 
> Vic www.combatartsusa.com


'nuff said.


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## shrek

MY WAY!

Even if one did the same as Bruce, started out in Wing Chun & took it to the level he did then went out and studied other arts to the extent Bruce did...they'd still have a different experience and come away with a different view of what was useful to themselves.  We all have our favorite techniques...everyone is different even though the kata/poomse/form is the same  

It's like kissing...there is no perfect way, but oh so many ways to do it, some more pleasureable than others


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## Flatlander

shrek said:


> It's like kissing...there is no perfect way, but oh so many ways to do it, some more pleasureable than others


Dude, if your JKD includes kissing, that is definitely a unique twist!  ROFL!


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## Robert Lee

Remember no matter the art It is your way in the end. Take JKD you study you train but it becomes yours has no name just something you do. Training has structure to the learning then from there the person finds and uses what is best for them.


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## shrek

Flatlander said:


> Dude, if your JKD includes kissing, that is definitely a unique twist! ROFL!


 
Heh, well, my girlfriend is a retired Marine...so sparring can often lead to more interesting situations   Nothing better than a make-up session after a good fight


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## K' Evans

I am new and only took up JKD couple of months so I am really not offering a fresh perspective here. Also I am glad that some consensus has been reached, so I don't want to dig up another can of worms. In truth, the politics in JKD should have been settled by now. I just want to add my interpretation after being introduced into JKD. Also to put things in perspective, I am currently being schooled in OJKD.

I think the real contention here is that no school can realistically offer to teach what Bruce Lee taught. I am not saying that people like Ted Wong or Jerry Poteet never learnt anything from Bruce; they clearly did pick up stuff from Bruce Lee but I think Bruce Lee's writings just make it very hard to grasp the actual meaning of JKD. My personal reading of him is that 1) he was very reluctant to name his MA as he didn't want to give it a name; 2) as he always claimed to be constantly learning and evolving, his ideas about techniques and their effectiveness may change over time; 3) he was also a secretive person. Let me expand on the third. 

Let me make it clear that I am not saying he is a bad MA teacher. But I do think that he was hesitant about teaching his art. Not only did he close down his schools (in fear that students would assume JKD as a "fixed" style or the "Truth"), but he was quoted as saying stuff like "Martial arts shouldn't be handed out indiscriminately". Also in some articles or interviews with his students, Bruce sometimes cautioned them not to share the knoweldge  they have. Given his untimely death, I just don't think, to reiterate kroh, that anyone alive today can claim to teach his style 100%. 

Some techniques are clearly inspired by his thoughts and analysis of MAs, like the straight lead, and the stance is created by him. But the great thing about Bruce is that he researched into what techniques were effective, and thus I think that's why he claimed in his BB interview that he didn't create a "new style". All he did was brilliant research into what works for him, and we are simply picking it up from there. 

Hence, I don't really see any need for hostility towards the JKD Concepts group. Nevertheless, there are concerns about what other type of MAs should be mixed with JKD or its concepts, and Bruce was also concerned about that. To be honest, I am still grappling with that question so I don't know the answer. However, I do believe the core philosophy of JKD, which pertains to interception, having a scientific structure and etc, are some essential ingredients before someone can haphazardly call their style JKD.


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## Dancing Dragon

K'Evans you are definitely a great martial artist in the making! I also practice "Jeet Kune Do" or at least my own interpretation of JKD. I believe K'Evans is right, Jeet Kune Do essentially died with Bruce and there is no absolute way of knowing how he would have or could have taught JKD to the world. But he did leave behind plenty of notes, guidelines, and philosophy for us to grasp the general idea of his art. Bruce's intentions were for us to develop our own way and to seek out our own paths in the martial arts. 

My personal "method", "style", or "interpretation" of Jeet Kune Do is deeply rooted in one principle that Sifu Lee taught, and that is that we must practice the Art of the Soul. Put your entire being into your art; when you practice, when you fight, just give it your all and regardless of the outcome, you know that you didn't fail yourself. Emotional content, to me, is the key factor. Fight from your soul, let your passion burn. _"Don't think, feel...It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!"_ Better yet _"When my opponent expands I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity, I do not hit, it hits all by itself."_

I'd say that it's good that we all disagree or at least have different views on Jeet Kune Do, otherwise it would become a static, cold, dead, classical art; "The Gospel Truth". Something that Bruce never would have wanted for us. Be yourself, make JKD your art, _"Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is originally your own."_

Peace


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## thtackett

I do JKD. JKD has a structure. If you don't have the JKD structure, is what you're doing JKD?


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## Em MacIntosh

JKD is just a name...
Personal expression of self defense is the bottom line.  What works for you, not Bruce.  If the styles (yours and his) are coincidentially similar, well, that's a coincidence, isn't it?  JKD concepts, literally (not a label for the inosanto schools of thought), should be what it's all about.  Bruce trained in JKD concepts.  Learning as he turned theory into reality (or into a more tested theory).  The way the body moves for the individual.  Following his concepts of the freedom of honest expression.  JKD is a concept.  To say it's a set of moves is to turn it into a jacket not everyone will fit into.  I thought JKD was created to offer something more flexible.


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## thtackett

It's much more than doing your own thing. There's is a structure, but within that structure there's some room for individual expression. JKD is based on having your strong hand forward and being able to intercept your opponent's preparation or intention with enough power to stop him with one blow. Bruce Lee taught a specific way to move, to punch and kick that are the basis of JKD.


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## arnisador

Wheer I study JKD strong hand forward is definitely emphasized. We do have reasonably specific ways to do the techniques. I am slow and have trouble with intercepting! It's been very hard for me.


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## kaizasosei

ive been watching bruce lee  analyzing his methods.  i notice that he used intimidation or threat as a setup as well as a defense. for example, he does a hadoken type movement that causes the other person to retreat.  in  the scene  where he fights karim abdul, karim uses the bruce lee tricks, and can be seen doing such hadoken-type move when he is sitting crosslegged.- it causes bruce himself to  momentarily retreat.. this shows that bruce was sharing his skills.  
of course he is deceptively fast, powerful.  very light on his feet.  which is very important for real fighting.
sometimes, it is made so obvious that  he  will  repeat  an attack  in a very provocative way, only setting up  for  when  he suddenly switches  to completely different move.  another element is that he is able to see the most effective angles and openings in his enemies guard, coming at the enemy from all angles. the enemies guard is almost like an extension of bruce lees tools that he is very proficient at manipulating.  
he also retreats in order to then switch to suddenly attack lunging forward.  the strong hand forward in my experience is also very effective after taking a retreating step back only to spring back. 

to me, it is clear that he is fighting with his mind more than with the body.  however, the body must be quick enough to respond. also, some of his weapons scenes, he can be seen performing feats similar to those of iaijutsu, tension and relaxation alternating in a most realistic yet aesthetic way.  
his strikes were also not seemingly effortless strikes of tma people, but packed very much power. that is the  power needed to do damage. the perfect balance between skill and cleverness vs. brutality


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## thtackett

The hammer principle is one of the best ways to learn to intercept. We will have a detailed explanation of it in Bob Bremer's and my book, "Chinatown JKD". It is from Black Belt Magazine and in in the final editing stages. Another key to intercepting is the right distance. You will never get it if he can hit you without taking a step forward. The front foot coming forward is what gives you the time to make it work. 
Tim Tackett


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## joeygil

Hey Tim,

Love your books and articles, and great point on the hammer principle - it's made my punching faster and less telegraphic.  I find it only really works for me in a boxing frame work.  When we're kick-box sparring, the fighting measure is usually too far for me to bridge with a punch as they're usually stepping in to "kicking range" for a kick (plus I'm short) - so I go with jik tek.  I need a way to make my jik tek as fast as my hammer principle chun chu'i.

@Kaizasosei,

Beware using Sijo Bruce Lee's movie's as a guide to non-theatrical JKD.  He looked tense in those scenes because it looks good for the camera, with all the tensed up muscles.  Really he taught to stay relaxed until right before the punch lands - letting your hand "explode" into a fist.  Otherwise the contractile muscles will slow you down.  That's what Sifu Tackett is talking about with the Hammer Principle - relax the contractile muscles (biceps) to initiate the punch (simple explaination here).

And just to clue in what he may be talking about, a "Hadoken" is a move from the Street Fighter series of video games, where one extends both arms forward - which results in a magical fire ball of Chi shooting out.  I thought Kareem was merely throwing up his huge hands as a blocking motion.  

You did spot a number of "real" JKD elements in the fight - the feints to draw the opponenent to react one way to take advantage of that reaction is called "Attack by Draw."  You also got a good grasp of some of the footwork - such as retreat/advance with reposte (with push off footwork, from your description).


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## Bodhisattva

Flatlander said:


> Are you a "concepts" or a"Jun Fan" JKD'er?


]

My JKD looks a lot like MMA.


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## simplicity

As a JKD Instructor I don't agree with the terms JKD concepts or Original JKD. In my opinion and experience theses term where created after Bruce Lee's death. He even talked about after death of a "ONCE FLUID MAN"S" art turned into a "CLASSICAL MESS".


As a Jeet Kune Do Instructor, I teach the student the "PRINCIPLES" of JKD. But, noway in heck do I teach them the "THIRD STAGE" or formless form of their instructor (My JKD). Somthing to think about.   I*_*I



Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney


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## hungfistron

Everyone has to crawl before they walk, still learning the formless form is a goal of mine that I wish to reach one day.  

Going back to what Sifu McNabney said, I would expect everyone's to be different, would imagine it could only be "_felt_" not taught.


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## Bodhisattva

simplicity said:


> As a JKD Instructor I don't agree with the terms JKD concepts or Original JKD. In my opinion and experience theses term where created after Bruce Lee's death. He even talked about after death of a "ONCE FLUID MAN"S" art turned into a "CLASSICAL MESS".
> 
> 
> As a Jeet Kune Do Instructor, I teach the student the "PRINCIPLES" of JKD. But, noway in heck do I teach them the "THIRD STAGE" or formless form of their instructor (My JKD). Somthing to think about.   I*_*I
> 
> 
> 
> Keep "IT" Real,
> John McNabney



The most important principle of JKD, to my thinking is

"Absorb what is useful."


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## simplicity

Bodhisattva said:


> The most important principle of JKD, to my thinking is
> 
> "Absorb what is useful."


 

We are not talking about "Most Important" principle here, that would violate right off the back what Jeet Kune Do is in the first place.....Being neither for or against, but what is......Somthing to think about, ya know. 


Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney


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## NubreedKaliSilat

I am an instructor in the *Lee-Inosanto lineage* and the JKD concepts under *Paul Vunak lineage*. My thought's, Although Sijo Bruce Lee had a consuming ambition to break into the movies. Sijo found himself becoming gradually more and more fasciated with the philosophies of teaching, with the intricacies of conveying his physical and spiritual message to a variety of student's. He was determined to treat each student differently, as an individual, and not just resort to a set curriculum that everyone followed, with no regard to the personality. This as you see has lead everyone to these difficulties that we see today. Sijo Bruce Lee did not want the nomind drilling like a Karate class. He wanted each student to explore himself, and made it clear he wanted the number's low in class. He taught no more then 6 student's at anyone time. He wished for the instructor to help student's to explore internally, and
externally, using a method of provoking the student into reaching oneness with himself. So, I say follow what works for you!!!!


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## simplicity

Dan Inosanto is a great teacher, matter of fact I'm going to train with next weekend here in Michigan. I use to train with Dan back in the day. The last time I train with Guro Dan was the mid 90's. 

This is something that I have on my website guys, you might like it.

"The good student/teacher discovers the natural gifts of their pupils and liberates them by the stimulating influence of the inspiration that they can impart, never imposing laws of containment or stigma on them" 

*For All Student/Teachers* 

Also, this is on my site as well.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not, nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not take the place of persistence, unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not, the world is full of educated derelicts. The slogan "Press On" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." 

*USA President Calvin Coolidge* 


As I always say.......Something to think about!

Have a great weekend and good training to you 


Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney


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## NubreedKaliSilat

Sifu Dan is awesome! He is a walking encylopedia of Martial arts, I have trained with him many times at his school and seminars. I train with his son in law Ron Balicki and his daughter Diana. I will be going to a seminar Nov. 8-9 with Sifu Richard Bustillo in Fort Collins Colorado. Anyone want information email me, Nubreed


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## James Kovacich

I havn't trained with Dan but he is one that if I had to  choose one BLS to train with, would at the top of the list. The problem is tying to choose one.

Ron Balicki would also be near the top of the list amongst the 2nd gens.


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## FierySquidFace

I guess I'm more of a concepts guy, but I put my emphasis on learning as much as I can, from as many sources as I can, and using what works the best _for me_ in any given situation. I do not want to conform to any one style, as I believe that only limits our true abillity.


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## sgtmac_46

I'd have to say a JKD Concepts guy myself, as that's been my exposure wit JKD, from guys from the Inosanto lineage, and seminar experience with Guro Inosanto itself, as well as coming to JKD Concepts from the FMA side.


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## Gruenewald

Which way of JKD do I do?

My own.


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## ElfTengu

Gruenewald said:


> Which way of JKD do I do?
> 
> My own.


 
Then how do you know it is JKD?


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## Gruenewald

ElfTengu said:


> Then how do you know it is JKD?


Because I apply the concepts of JKD to what I do; I don't think the techniques themselves dictate JKD.


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## ElfTengu

Gruenewald said:


> Because I apply the concepts of JKD to what I do; I don't think the techniques themselves dictate JKD.


 
I wasn't being argumentative, just an attempt at flippant humour. 

I guess what I was getting at is that we have to have a level of approval from a real teacher of the art we are studying, in order to know that we have the concepts of that art sufficiently and correctly ingrained before we can start personalising aspects and truly say that we then we have our 'way', otherwise it might not be JKD at all but just some made up mimicry. I'm not saying that this is the case with anyone here, but so many people learn from books, DVDs and the internet these days and then go and do their own thing that many of the people who say they have their own way/style/art really don't have the background and experience to justify the claim.

Just to clarify.


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## James Kovacich

Gruenewald said:


> Because I apply the concepts of JKD to what I do; I don't think the techniques themselves dictate JKD.


Do you teach your JKD?

The concepts found in JKD are found in most martial arts. Nothing new there. What makes "your JKD" Jeet Kune Do?


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## Gruenewald

James Kovacich said:


> Do you teach your JKD?
> 
> The concepts found in JKD are found in most martial arts. Nothing new there. What makes "your JKD" Jeet Kune Do?


I think you're looking at that statement the wrong way, I don't claim to have established some new form of JKD. In my eyes JKD is not a form, it is a concept to be applied to one's studies of the martial arts as a whole. The way I phrased my statement was as such because I didn't feel the title of this thread fit what it was asking and I tried to sort of exploit that by pointing out a fundamental of the JKD philosophy.

Everybody's JKD is supposed to be their own personal interpretation of martial arts in general, in my opinion. Thus, their own JKD.


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## ElfTengu

NubreedKaliSilat said:


> I am an instructor in the *Lee-Inosanto lineage* and the JKD concepts under *Paul Vunak lineage*. My thought's, Although Sijo Bruce Lee had a consuming ambition to break into the movies. Sijo found himself becoming gradually more and more fasciated with the philosophies of teaching, with the intricacies of conveying his physical and spiritual message to a variety of student's. He was determined to treat each student differently, as an individual, and not just resort to a set curriculum that everyone followed, with no regard to the personality. This as you see has lead everyone to these difficulties that we see today. Sijo Bruce Lee did not want the nomind drilling like a Karate class. He wanted each student to explore himself, and made it clear he wanted the number's low in class. He taught no more then 6 student's at anyone time. He wished for the instructor to help student's to explore internally, and
> externally, using a method of provoking the student into reaching oneness with himself. So, I say follow what works for you!!!!


 
I would trust the writer of the above quote to be able to do his own thing and it still be JKD, because he has pedigree in JKD.

Immersion in an art such as JKD gives you the core skills to be able to add new material but give it the flavour of those core skills, otherwise you end up doing something that has a different core and is therefore another art and not JKD.


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## James Kovacich

ElfTengu said:


> I would trust the writer of the above quote to be able to do his own thing and it still be JKD, because he has pedigree in JKD.
> 
> Immersion in an art such as JKD gives you the core skills to be able to add new material but give it the flavour of those core skills, otherwise you end up doing something that has a different core and is therefore another art and not JKD.


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## Xael

A lot of people seem to fail to realize that Bruce was very philosophical in his approach to martial arts and life itself.

Not everyone's JKD is going to be the same. By this I am speaking beyond your pedigree. Whether you have trained with Ted Wong or Guru Dan, JKD is supposed to be one man's journey and self discovery/application through martial arts. Granted I believe the concepts laid out in the Tao (i.e. 5 ways of attack, 4 ranges, how to punch etc) are extremely important and should be a foundation to built upon, however one must realize had Bruce not died JKD would be ever evolving. JKD was something Bruce was doing for himself which ended up being broken down into concepts and ideas and shared with others. It is not an art set in stone like Kenpo or Shotokan.

Take for example 2 of his students: Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Ted Wong. Bruce would have taught them a little different. Kareem is 7 foot tall with a huge reach via legs and arms and would most assuredly be instructed to keep distance as this would be his natural advantage. Mr. Wong on the other hand not so much. Thus the idea "absorb what is useful..." might be different for the two of these men.

Let me quote something Bruce said that I have found to hit the nail on the head:
"I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy. The closer to the true way of Kung Fu, the less wastage of expression there is. Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive. Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back."​


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## ElfTengu

Xael said:


> Not everyone's JKD is going to be the same. By this I am speaking beyond your pedigree. Whether you have trained with Ted Wong or Guru Dan, JKD is supposed to be one man's journey and self discovery/application through martial arts. Granted I believe the concepts laid out in the Tao (i.e. 5 ways of attack, 4 ranges, how to punch etc) are extremely important and should be a foundation to built upon, however one must realize had Bruce not died JKD would be ever evolving. JKD was something Bruce was doing for himself which ended up being broken down into concepts and ideas and shared with others. It is not an art set in stone like Kenpo or Shotokan.


 
Yes, I don't think anyone could disagree with this, my point was really that not just any old Tom, Dick or Harry can call their own martial journey Jeet Kune Do if they have not had a fair degree of direct guidance from an instructor with JKD pedigree. I am not saying that pedigree is a fixed thing like the attributes of a particular breed of dog, but that there are still certain apects, intricacies and underlying principles that make Jeet Kune Do Jeet Kune Do as opposed to something else, and that only certain accepted people within the overall art, be it concepts or Jun Fan, or a balance of both, can pass those foundations on to someone who is just starting out.

Just as important is running before one can walk. How long should one spend doing only what they are shown, before they start integrating other material?

For me, I am still very much a novice, but occasionally if it feels natural and I know it is going to work, I will slip in something from another art in which I am a 2nd dan and still train. But I am keeping this to a minimum and working instead on the wonderful array of things that are new to me.


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## Xael

ElfTengu said:


> Yes, I don't think anyone could disagree with this, my point was really that not just any old Tom, Dick or Harry can call their own martial journey Jeet Kune Do if they have not had a fair degree of direct guidance from an instructor with JKD pedigree. I am not saying that pedigree is a fixed thing like the attributes of a particular breed of dog, but that there are still certain apects, intricacies and underlying principles that make Jeet Kune Do Jeet Kune Do as opposed to something else, and that only certain accepted people within the overall art, be it concepts or Jun Fan, or a balance of both, can pass those foundations on to someone who is just starting out.
> 
> Just as important is running before one can walk. How long should one spend doing only what they are shown, before they start integrating other material?
> 
> For me, I am still very much a novice, but occasionally if it feels natural and I know it is going to work, I will slip in something from another art in which I am a 2nd dan and still train. But I am keeping this to a minimum and working instead on the wonderful array of things that are new to me.


 
I was not directing my post to you. I definitely agree with you here.
To your question about when one could start doing this or that or adding on, that is something no one can answer other than the individual. Afterall this is a personal art. Speed and power are going to fluxuate throughout the martial artists life. So this should never be a litmus test for mastery or when a person should stay or move on. When you can be like water, then you will have met your goal.


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## ElfTengu

PHP:
	






Xael said:


> When you can be like water, then you will have met your goal.


 
I am used to working with 5 elements but I can concentrate on water.


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## Xael

ElfTengu said:


> I am used to working with 5 elements but I can concentrate on water.


 

LOL nice.


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## Thunder Foot

ThuNder_FoOt said:


> I practice Concepts as it contains OJKD within it.


I look at this now and think "the heck was I thinking"? Funny how time has a tendency to reveal things to us. Now i hold to an entirely different philosophy. What a learning process, hehe.


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## Isaiah90

Flatlander said:


> Are you a "concepts" or a"Jun Fan" JKD'er?



Concepts, i feel like people should do away with Jun Fan Gung Fu. It's just meant to illustrate JKD. It's not meant to be the end all be all. You're supposed to learn from Bruce's way in order to find your own way.


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## Blitz

Isaiah90 said:


> Concepts, i feel like people should do away with Jun Fan Gung Fu. It's just meant to illustrate JKD. It's not meant to be the end all be all. You're supposed to learn from Bruce's way in order to find your own way.


 do away with jun fan? jun fan is the framework of jkd, if you don't try it first how will you know what works and what doesn`t . you cant stray from the foundation until you have experienced it first and tested it. jkd is not about just taking a million techniques from different arts and calling it jkd, without the nucleus you dont have jkd. im also a concepts guy but i dont just throw stuff away. i thoroughly study it and thoroughly test it, and if it does not work for me i study it some more and test it a lot more and see if it was me or try to see if i can make it work in its original form, or if i have to modify it. bruce knew what he was doing. you dont just throw stuff away if it does not work after only trying it a few times and coming to a conclusion that quick, you almost have to analyze it scientifically first. if your own way isnt rooted in biomechanics and science it will probably get you beaten or killed or both. ps you do jkd? i thought you did karate in the garage with your bro.


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## pdg

Blitz said:


> ps you do jkd?



He doesn't need to do jkd, he had personal instruction from Bruce Lee.

Or he read a book.

Or he watched 'Rush Hour 2' like 9 times, but can't remember which one is Bruce Lee.

C'mon, how dare you question his authenticity?


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## pdg

Oh, and this thread is older than his "training" history...


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## Bino TWT

I've studied multiple lineages of JKD, from the early Jun Fan (Jesse Glover's guys), to Inosanto's concepts, Paul Vunak's lineage, and a few others, however I am an instructor of the Jerry Poteet lineage of JKD. I am also an instructor of Wing Tsun.


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## Findinghisownway

I look at the concepts and look trough all styles collectively. I am in the process of my own interpretation of Jkd as was intended by Bruce. What we are taught is what worked for him but to study deeper and add in, and take away what works for you, was always the intentions of the creation of jkd. This is my thoughts.


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## Regroove

For Jeet Kune Do, I've trained in both camps of "concepts" and "original'. I was first introduced to it through the Inosanto lineage and I am currently learning from the Poteet lineage. I appreciate the modern approach, but I have a greater reverence to the original camp. Of course it all depends on your instructor.


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## Trapboxer

I'm a concept guy but trying to get more into the Jun fan method


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## geezer

I do the kind of JKD that's NOT JKD!

i.e. I trained Wing Chun for decades, ...and "Escrima Concepts", then trained for a while with some MMA guys that also taught non-sport combatives, incorporating the same lineage of Escrima (both empty hand and weapons) and stuff taken from their MMA repertoire (boxing, muay thai, grappling). And they even brought in some useful concepts from Wing Chun (the head instructor did some WC with me when he was a youngster back in the 80s).

So one day in private, I asked the head instructor of that group how he would describe what he taught. He said, "Don't quote me on this, because I don't want to sound like I'm taking advantage of the name, but in my opinion what we do is ... well, it's a little like JKD ...or at least _what JKD is supposed to be". _

Fair enough? I _don't _think he was exploiting the name. Not at all. Just giving credit where credit is due ...to the tremendous impact that the ideas and concepts promoted by Bruce Lee some 50 years ago have had on the martial arts of today.

Now, I'm just working with my own group again, but looking at my interpretation WC and Escrima, I can definitely relate to my martial arts "cousins" who practice JKD!


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## Trapboxer

Definitely very similar especially with the wc and escrima influence

Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk


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## Trapboxer

Regroove said:


> For Jeet Kune Do, I've trained in both camps of "concepts" and "original'. I was first introduced to it through the Inosanto lineage and I am currently learning from the Poteet lineage. I appreciate the modern approach, but I have a greater reverence to the original camp. Of course it all depends on your instructor.


Kind of the path I'm on

Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk


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## Regroove

Trapboxer said:


> I'm a concept guy but trying to get more into the Jun fan method


Definitely a lot of concept practitioners out there thanks to Dan Inosanto, unfortunately not enough original instructors out there. Might I suggest: Learn how to Intercept by working on 3 simple components!


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## Buka

I've dabbled in Jeet over the years. One of my instructors, Joe Maffei, trained under Paul Vunak, my other Instructor, Bobby Giordano, is a student of Richard Bustillo. 

The only name I've ever heard either of them use, was "Let's work out."


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## angelariz

I started with Jun fan Gong Fu and Kali, then studied under a Chinatown JKD instructor, and a few Paul Vunak CJKD.
I have a collection of people that I follow and watch as well.
Like Bob Breen, Francis Fong Kevin Seaman, Octavio Quintero and of course the great Tim Tackett


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## Regroove

Octavio has a really good online course: The Art of JKD Online Training - The Art of JKD Online


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## NYFIGHTSOURCE

angelariz said:


> I started with Jun fan Gong Fu and Kali, then studied under a Chinatown JKD instructor, and a few Paul Vunak CJKD.
> I have a collection of people that I follow and watch as well.
> Like Bob Breen, Francis Fong Kevin Seaman, Octavio Quintero and of course the great Tim Tackett



Which Chinatown JKD instructor did you get to train under?   
I never got to train with Bob Breen.   I do love a lot of the things I have seen him do in videos.    The rest are great people to go an train with.   Definitely worth the $$ if you can go train or seminars.     Each have slight variations to what they do and teach.   But a wealth of knowledge.   Francis Fongs Wing Chun is amazing.   Love it.


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