# Punching & Kicking Trees



## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Does anyone here punch and/or kick trees for training? Any thoughts on the matter?


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 12, 2013)

No. Rather than tear up the flora, I'll tear up things that are intended to be punched and kicked. Poor old BOB. The makiwara. Bricks. Boards. Students (KIDDING!).


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> No. Rather than tear up the flora, I'll tear up things that are intended to be punched and kicked. Poor old BOB. The makiwara. Bricks. Boards. Students (KIDDING!).



I kind of have the same thought process, that we should be aware and protect our surroundings; take care of what takes care of us...but it's also so appealing to me and I may or may not be guilty of such activity. *clears throat*


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## Danny T (Dec 12, 2013)

Trees; No. Heavy bag, Thai pads, stack of tires? Yes.


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Danny T said:


> Trees; No. Heavy bag, Thai pads, stack of tires? Yes.



Oh yes I forgot about tires. When I was training in Kajukenbo, tires were involved often.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 12, 2013)

Tenacious_Red said:


> Does anyone here punch and/or kick trees for training? Any thoughts on the matter?


I do it all the time.  I also hate concrete pillars. I just have to punch 'em. I tell myself it is for my betterment in martial arts, but I really just enjoy punching trees and concrete pillars.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 12, 2013)

There are a couple steel support beams, at my work, I always give the what for to, as well. How could I forget?


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> I do it all the time.  I also hate concrete pillars. I just have to punch 'em. I tell myself it is for my betterment in martial arts, but I really just enjoy punching trees and concrete pillars.



Yes, that dull grey is such an irritant. hahaha :EG:


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> There are a couple steel support beams, at my work, I always give the what for to, as well. How could I forget?



Hey the monks break steel rods over their head with all that wonderful chi, so give 'em [the beams] your best shot!


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 12, 2013)

Tenacious_Red said:


> Yes, that dull grey is such an irritant. hahaha :EG:


I prefer painted pillars. My skin chafes.


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 12, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> I prefer painted pillars. My skin chafes.



Awww :-( I didn't realize melamine formaldehyde prevents dermatitis chaffing. Good to know.


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 12, 2013)

When I first started training I wrapped a long length of carpet around a tree in my back yard and used that for some conditioning.


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## punisher73 (Dec 12, 2013)

Unless the object has give to it for punching you are doing one of two things 1) Seriously going to injure yourself long term in the form of joint problems/arthritis or 2) No develop a good punch because you CAN'T punch an immovable steel/concrete object full power so you will always be holding back or not penetrating.

The makiwara is designed to be flexible to allow penetration and full impact as you build up to it.  If you are only intersted in getting big or calloused knuckles then punching an immovable object will probably help you.  I know for me, just doing knuckle pushups on concrete has added a nice callous to my top two knuckles.  Punching a makiwara never did add any callouses.  Neither one has hurt my hands or caused bigger/swollen knuckles.

From talking with my instructor (started training in the 50's through now), they used to punch concrete walls etc. because they were trying to smash up the knuckle area to get big knuckles that kind of mashed into one giant lump.  He really regrets doing that type of trainng now.


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## DennisBreene (Dec 13, 2013)

As long as trees leave me alone, I'll leave them alone.  The first tree that makes a move on me, gets it!


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 13, 2013)

I have grappled with a few and got caught in an ankle lock once (I fell out of a tree and ended up hanging upside down by my ankle).


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## Grenadier (Dec 13, 2013)

In the long run, you don't have anything to gain by smashing your fists and feet into a hard object on a repeated basis.  

Why risk nerve damage just for a short-termed "toughening" of your hands or feet?  There are ways to toughen up your hands that don't cause nerve damage, etc., but smashing them into trees (or any hard object) isn't part of it.  

To put it this way, is it worth not being able to hold a cup of coffee when you're in your late 30's, without your hand shaking badly and spilling your coffee everywhere?  Not being able to write optimally with a hand that has the jitters?  Losing fine control of your computer mouse?  These are just a few of the common everyday tasks you'll have a hard time accomplishing if you damage your nerves.  

Stick with punching bags, makiwara, etc.  If you want to start a toughening routine, then do it right.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 13, 2013)

punisher73 said:


> Unless the object has give to it for punching you are doing one of two things 1) Seriously going to injure yourself long term in the form of joint problems/arthritis or 2) No develop a good punch because you CAN'T punch an immovable steel/concrete object full power so you will always be holding back or not penetrating.
> 
> The makiwara is designed to be flexible to allow penetration and full impact as you build up to it.  If you are only intersted in getting big or calloused knuckles then punching an immovable object will probably help you.  I know for me, just doing knuckle pushups on concrete has added a nice callous to my top two knuckles.  Punching a makiwara never did add any callouses.  Neither one has hurt my hands or caused bigger/swollen knuckles.
> 
> From talking with my instructor (started training in the 50's through now), they used to punch concrete walls etc. because they were trying to smash up the knuckle area to get big knuckles that kind of mashed into one giant lump.  He really regrets doing that type of trainng now.


I hold back! LOL But I think it is good to get a feel for how hard you can hit something that doesn't give. Also, don't want to damage my knuckles on someone face either. Strikes are a timing mechanism meant to create an impression, not destroy the skull. I use my elbows for deep penetration or skull smashing. LOL My hands are delicate.


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 13, 2013)

RTKDCMB said:


> I have grappled with a few and got caught in an ankle lock once (I fell out of a tree and ended up hanging upside down by my ankle).



Ouch!


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 13, 2013)

Touch Of Death said:


> I hold back! LOL But I think it is good to get a feel for how hard you can hit something that doesn't give. Also, don't want to damage my knuckles on someone face either. Strikes are a timing mechanism meant to create an impression, not destroy the skull. I use my elbows for deep penetration or skull smashing. LOL My hands are delicate.



*snickers*


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 13, 2013)

Tenacious_Red said:


> Ouch!



It was more funny/embarrassing than anything but it did hurt a bit, I was only about 13 at the time.


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 13, 2013)

RTKDCMB said:


> It was more funny/embarrassing than anything but it did hurt a bit, I was only about 13 at the time.



Nice! Builds character :ultracool I miss climbing trees, unfortunately in NM there are no South Eastern Live Oaks or Northern Cali Redwoods. We have overgrown shrubs, prickly things, and the mountain trees are fairly narrow.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2013)

Tenacious_Red said:


> Does anyone here punch and/or kick trees for training? Any thoughts on the matter?



Use to and my Sanda shifu still does and I still do if I come across a tree that I feel deserves it D) but I do not do it as much as I use to or would like these days. But it was not a punch it was a palm strike and it was not just going out and pounding away at a tree it was hitting it a certain way and listening for the proper sound.

I only did palm strikes he does palm strikes, elbow, knee and kicks.

It is not something I ever recommend you just go out and do, it is something that is quite helpful if you have someone that is trained show you how....but even with my Shifu's skill I could never bring myself to elbow or knee a tree


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## Tenacious_Red (Dec 13, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> Use to and my Sanda shifu still does and I still do if I come across a tree that I feel deserves it D) but I do not do it as much as I use to or would like these days. But it was not a punch it was a palm strike and it was not just going out and pounding away at a tree it was hitting it a certain way and listening for the proper sound.
> 
> I only did palm strikes he does palm strikes, elbow, knee and kicks.
> 
> It is not something I ever recommend you just go out and do, it is something that is quite helpful if you have someone that is trained show you how....but even with my Shifu's skill I could never bring myself to elbow or knee a tree



Yeah, the idea of an elbow to the tree is just painful...owwwww


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## Zero (Dec 20, 2013)

I used to run a lot of cross country in the hills and now and then when I got caught by a tree branch or cut by a bush I would lash out and give it what for in retribution, then I would remember I was grossly outnumbered by the trees and shrubs around me and apologise profusely (also, I was never sure if it was the voices in my head or the trees themselves that were jeering me).


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## Zero (Dec 20, 2013)

On a serious note, I did use to run in the woods regularly as my training and when I got to the ridge line would practice kicks on the trees.  I would condition my shins against trees that could obviously handle it, ie no poor fledgling sapplings (although the green sapplings have a lot of flex so I doubt would snap). In my view conditioning against trees is as good as against the heavy hard thai bags etc (and I still "stand" by that now). I am not talking about kicking so hard you are doing nerve damage but to the degree necessary to enable you to met out and if required endure punishment in tournaments.  

I would also kick and knock down the dead trees, as in my mind, these would be deadfall soon in any event, so not like nature was being interfered with.  I had a crazy dog which was a cross between a large rodesian ridgeback and a masstif at the time, with a set of jaws on her like a bear trap and she would gleefully rip into the dead tree trunks as they fell over.


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## PhotonGuy (Dec 20, 2013)

Sometimes i do hit trees, however, I make sure to use dit da jow whenever I do that.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 20, 2013)

I only train "toe push kick" on a "small" tree for the following reasons.

- If I can hit a small tree with accuracy, I can hit a human body easily.
- If my body structure can be solid when I kick a tree, I can stand still without being pushing back when I kick on my opponent's body.
- Small tree will vibrate a bit. It won't give me too much shocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlGIJjfw2SI&feature=youtu.be

I don't get the same feeling when I kick at my heavy bag.


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 20, 2013)

Nothing like a good kick in the bush to ruin someone's day.


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## David43515 (Dec 21, 2013)

It`s not an all the time thing, but yeah I do punch, palm, chop. elbow, and kick the occasional cocky tree, concrete wall, or well-made wooden wall. Itry to stay away from surfaces that will tear my skin up much though. Like others have said, I don`t go for full power on my knuckles, at least not often. Buit I like to test my balance and body alainment on something that won`t move. If I can keep continuous forward pressure on a tree or lamppost with my balance good, then I know I can probably move someone backwards I also occasionally like to strike w/o pulling back and just continue to push hard through the target for 5-10 seconds after each strike. I feel like the isomeric effect  at different ranges makes my strikes a bit heavier when there is no room to wind up an I have to strike from where ever my hand may be.


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## WaterGal (Dec 21, 2013)

punisher73 said:


> From talking with my instructor (started training in the 50's through now), they used to punch concrete walls etc. because they were trying to smash up the knuckle area to get big knuckles that kind of mashed into one giant lump.  He really regrets doing that type of trainng now.



Yeah, I've read about kung fu students who punch trees so that their knuckles get scarred over and the bones built up so they can punch anything without feeling it.  It sounded like a bad idea to me.


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## Drasken (Dec 21, 2013)

When I was young, I used to kick trees. I admit that it was because of watching Kickboxer and thinking it would be awesome to do that. ( keep in mind I was like 9 or 10 at the time. ) I started doing Muay Thai with my cousin, and kicking trees in my backyard in my private time. It hurt... A lot... But it DID make my shins hard as a rock and damaged the nerves so I could kick anything. However when I stopped it went away after time. It hurts.to kick things like that now, though my shins are still harder.
Overall I don't recommend it. There are much better ways to achieve the same goal, and while I could see ancient warriors doing this... We have updated training equipment now. Less chance of injury and the same results over time.


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