# Yong Chun (Wing Chun)



## Xue Sheng (Feb 17, 2011)

Yong Chun  Xiao Lian Tou
Wing Chin - Siu lin tau - a different lineage


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## Vajramusti (Feb 17, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yong Chun  Xiao Lian Tou
> Wing Chin - Siu lin tau - a different lineage


---------------------------------------------
Thanks for sharing- it's different all right.

joy


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (Feb 18, 2011)

Its a training dvd but  i still believe this form can be effective.


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## Poor Uke (Feb 18, 2011)

maybe useful but I wouldnt want to try that blocking a kick with my wrist thing at 4:08-4:11.....OOWCHY!


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## Domino (Feb 18, 2011)

Thank you, enjoy looking at different forms of other lineage, the weirder the better.


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## zepedawingchun (Feb 18, 2011)

That is the fourth empty handed form called Jeet Chi Tao or Intercepting Energy Idea. It was lost or forgotten when Ng Mui left the Shaolin Temple because she didn't know that form yet. The form trains you to strike or hit your opponents with your chi from a distance without having to touch them. 

Bruce Lee searched for years and years attempting to re-create this form because he was told a legend about it's existance while training under WSL and YM. The end result was his method of martial arts known as JKD. 

No one believed this form existed until recently found in the homeland at a village not far from the Southern Shaolin Temple. This form had been passed down from generation to generation after it was taught by a dying monk, who escaped the temple burning, to a young boy Ng Yong Chun. He kept it secret, only teaching it to family members, and thus passed in the same manner through the years until discovered by American missionaries doing humanitarian work.

(The above told story is completely fiction, but hey, it's possible. No offense is meant to anyone by the tale told, just attempting to bring a little humor to the forum. If I have offended anyone, I am sorry.)


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## Eric_H (Feb 18, 2011)

To the OP:

Do you train with this guy? What lineage is this and what's their story?


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## geezer (Feb 18, 2011)

Definitely a very different interpretation! Favors longer stances, steps, and longer, more looping strikes. I checked it out a little more on Youtube and my impression was that it looked more long-bridge, and mixed with something else. Ceratainly, even the body structure and head position are different. Like Domino, I enjoy seeing "wierd" or obscure variants of WC. Heck, even mainstream WC looked very odd to eyes accustomed to karate when the system first became known in the West. But on the other hand, it wasn't the "oddness" of Yip Man WC/VT/WT that made it hugely popular. It was its _effectiveness_. That, and Bruce Lee. 

So the real question, is whether this stuff is effective.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 18, 2011)

Eric_H said:


> To the OP:
> 
> Do you train with this guy? What lineage is this and what's their story?


 
Nope I do not train with this guy. The Wing Chun I trained is from Ip Ching.

This is a DVD that was sent to me by my sister-in-law in China. My wife told her I trained Xingyiquan and she sent me this DVD :idunno: 

I went out on YouTube to see if it was there and it was so I decided to post it.

All I know is calling it Yong Chun means it is likely from the North of China


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## Asmo (Feb 18, 2011)

Isn't that Pan Nam lineage?


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## mook jong man (Feb 18, 2011)

Asmo said:


> Isn't that Pan Nam lineage?


 

No, I think you will find this is.


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## Asmo (Feb 19, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> No, I think you will find this is.



Good one, Mook.


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## profesormental (Feb 20, 2011)

And so... as I board the Pan Nam, my journey to find the real Jeet Chi Tao continues... I am left only using the feeble concepts of logic, anatomy, physics and kinesiology as guides... 

But someday, with the help of Internets peoples like Zepedawingchun, geezer, Poor Uke, Xue Sheng Mook Jong Man and the many other helpfule peoples here, I will find the form to knock people down only with my Chi...


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 20, 2011)

profesormental said:


> And so... as I board the Pan Nam, my journey to find the real Jeet Chi Tao continues... I am left only using the feeble concepts of logic, anatomy, physics and kinesiology as guides...
> 
> But someday, with the help of Internets peoples like Zepedawingchun, geezer, Poor Uke, Xue Sheng Mook Jong Man and the many other helpfule peoples here, I will find the form to knock people down only with my Chi...


 
oh no... your in the wrong section... you're looking for George Dillman...or this guy

Of course I could teach you this...

*KEMAHAMAHA*






But I won't


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## naneek (Feb 20, 2011)

unusual looking to say the least


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 22, 2011)

I found the VCD that was sent to me from China and read what it said

Basically this is form someone named Peng Nan who is (or was) in Foshan

From the case



> Yong Chun Minor Practice Quan: Xiao Lian Tou is the first and the primary routine of Yong Chun Boxing and the basic exercise to learn barehanded combat techniques. Through the practice of this routine, you can understand how to place your elbow correctly and grasp the defense essentials at the middle part and some attack skills.
> 
> The saying "Taiji covers Northern China while Yong Chun leading the South" fully describes the popularity of Yongchun Boxing. Yong Chun Quan (Boxing) is an unusual branch of the martial arts in Southern China. It is Bruce Lee, the contemporary martial artist and actor well known by the West world, who introduces this boxing to the whole world. And Mr. Peng Nan in Foshan, Guangdong Province has developed it into so quick a play that the movements seem invisible. Yong Chun Boxing belongs to the internal boxing style. The force of each movement comes from the internal energy. While playing, your will direct the internal energy and the energy changes into force, with your will, energy and force going in one. This boxing is quite practical in real-life combats. The routines of Peng-style Yong Chun Boxing include Minor Practice, Thrusting Fingers, Seeking Bridge and Wooden Dummy Exercise. The Weapon routines are Butterfly double dagger and Ludianban Cudgel.
> 
> ...


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## Asmo (Feb 22, 2011)

Yep, the late Grandmaster Pan Nam. His Wing Chun looks quite interesting.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 24, 2011)

I could look at least half of this up and to be honest I use to know but I am now old, lazy and having senior moments so. 

Who was Ip Mans Sifu (or shifus) and who was Pan Nams sifu (or shifus)

Im not trying to start a problem here it is just that I find this type of stuff fascinating.

Basically I am trying to see how far back you have to go to reach the same shifu, assuming you can actually go that far back factually


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## geezer (Feb 24, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> I could look at least half of this up and to be honest I use to know but I am now old, lazy and having senior moments so.
> 
> Who was Ip Mans Sifu (or shifus) and who was Pan Nams sifu (or shifus)


 
Yeah, it's hard to keep track of all the finer points of this lineage stuff. Since I'm on a break at work, I don't have any of my books handy, so I went back to _Wikipedia_, so take this for whatever it's worth. Pan Nam and Yip Man are not that far apart. They both trained in Fo'shan in the Leung Jan - Chan Wah shun lineage. Yip Man learned under Chan Wah Shun briefly and then continued his training under Chan's most prominent student, Ng Chun So, and then later in Hong Kong, Yip is said to have trained with Leung Jan's son, Leung Bic. Pan Nam trained some Hung Gar and then trained WC under Chan Wah Shun's students Jiu Chau and later with Lai Hip Chau (Yip Man's si-hings). Or something like that. Anyway, the Yip Man and Pang Nam branches are fairly close... "cousins" I guess. 

My old Sifu was a Yip Man student, but even he adapted one movement we call "Pan Nam hand". Don't know much except that it's useful.


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## yak sao (Feb 24, 2011)

geezer said:


> Yeah, it's hard to keep track of all the finer points of this lineage stuff. Since I'm on a break at work, I don't have any of my books handy, so I went back to _Wikipedia_, so take this for whatever it's worth. Pan Nam and Yip Man are not that far apart. They both trained in Fo'shan in the Leung Jan - Chan Wah shun lineage. Yip Man learned under Chan Wah Shun briefly and then continued his training under Chan's most prominent student, Ng Chun So, and then later in Hong Kong, Yip is said to have trained with Leung Jan's son, Leung Bic. Pan Nam trained some Hung Gar and then trained WC under Chan Wah Shun's students Jiu Chau and later with Lai Hip Chau (Yip Man's si-hings). Or something like that. Anyway, the Yip Man and Pang Nam branches are fairly close... "cousins" I guess.
> 
> *My old Sifu was a Yip Man student, but even he adapted one movement we call "Pan Nam hand". Don't know much except that it's useful.*





You've arroused my couriosity. What is this movement....could it be something I know by a different name?


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## Nabakatsu (Feb 25, 2011)

What yak said, my curiosity meter has spiked way past it's normal limits.


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## geezer (Feb 25, 2011)

OK, I don't know if that's the "official" name. It's just a movement we do in "Section 6" of the Chi-Sau sets (inherited from LT's "WT"). I got the name from my training partner who may have gotten it from LT, from Emin, from Keith Kernspecht, from Jeff Webb or elsewhere, since at one time all these guys were in the same organization. All these organizational splits can sure get confusing! Next time I get together with my training partner, I'll review the technique or "application" and get back to you guys. But just in a general sense, after LT first went back to the mainland in the early 80s, he came back and made several minor changes to the forms, ect. based on what he encountered in Fo'shan. His meetings with Pan Nam were part of that. He as documented this in his books. Gotta run. --Geezer


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## wtxs (Feb 25, 2011)

geezer said:


> My old Sifu was a Yip Man student, but even he adapted one movement we call "*Pan Nam hand*". Don't know much except that it's useful.





geezer said:


> OK, I don't know if that's the "official" name. It's just a movement we do in "Section 6" of the Chi-Sau sets (inherited from LT's "WT"). I got the name from my training partner who may have gotten it from LT, from Emin, from Keith Kernspecht, from Jeff Webb or elsewhere, since at one time all these guys were in the same organization. All these organizational splits can sure get confusing! Next time I get together with my training partner, I'll review the technique or "application" and get back to you guys. But just in a general sense, after LT first went back to the mainland in the early 80s, he came back and made several minor changes to the forms, ect. based on what he encountered in Fo'shan. His meetings with Pan Nam were part of that. He as documented this in his books. *Gotta run*. --Geezer




It's like locking a bunch of kids in the candy store ... however all of the goodies are behind bullet proof glass. :tantrum::angry:

Stop with the teasing already you old geezer (no pun intended).


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## geezer (Feb 25, 2011)

Goodies? My attitude is that there really aren't any_ "secrets"_ in kung-fu. Just find a good sifu and work hard. All the rest is _marketing!_ About that movement... I don't even remember it clearly... just a name given to one counter in a fairly long training sequence. Sometimes I think our branch has too many complicated training sequences anyway, at least for my brain. But that's another topic. Regardless, I will get back to you after I check this out.


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## zepedawingchun (Feb 25, 2011)

geezer said:


> Goodies? My attitude is that there really aren't any_ "secrets"_ in kung-fu. Just find a good sifu and work hard..


 
But that is the secret, find a good sifu and hard work.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 25, 2011)

zepedawingchun said:


> But that is the secret, find a good sifu and hard work.


 

SHHHHHHHH You're not suppose to tell anyone :uhyeah:


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## Vajramusti (Feb 26, 2011)

zepedawingchun said:


> But that is the secret, find a good sifu and hard work.


------------------------------------------------------
I visited with my sifu yesterday in Tucson -110  miles away. Even after doing wing chun
since 1976- I thank my lucky stars and good fortune for the opportunity to be exposed to great teaching of a great art.

Like a great art- after much good practice- it goes beyond technique.

joy chaudhuri


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## yak sao (Feb 26, 2011)

geezer said:


> Goodies? My attitude is that there really aren't any_ "secrets"_ in kung-fu. Just find a good sifu and work hard. All the rest is _marketing!_ About that movement... I don't even remember it clearly... just a name given to one counter in a fairly long training sequence.* Sometimes I think our branch has too many complicated training sequences anyway,* at least for my brain. But that's another topic. Regardless, I will get back to you after I check this out.


 

Agreed.....for so long I couldn't wait to learn more chi sao sections. Now that I've learned the biggest part of them, when my training partner and I get together we either spend the majority of our time practicing 1st section, and/or taking a small sequence from another section and practicing it over and over


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## geezer (Feb 26, 2011)

yak sao said:


> ...we either spend the majority of our time *practicing 1st section*, and/or taking a small sequence from another section and practicing it over and over



Me too. And even then I never get it down the way I want to.


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## geezer (Mar 15, 2011)

yak sao said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> You've arroused my couriosity. What is this movement....could it be something I know by a different name?



OK _Yak_ and _Nabakatsu_, here's what I've got for you: Check out the old videoclip of Pan Nam's Chum Kiu and note the way he does a very low _dai-bong sau_ and wu sau repeated three times to each side in the second section of the form (2:40-2:50). 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt-JnKrI8tg&NR=1&feature=fvwp


 Now compare this to the position of the "turning "shoulder-bong-sau" and upward rotating wu-sau used to dissolve a cross-lap and fak sau attack in the WT "sixth section" of chi-sau training (as illustrated in Leung Ting's little book, _Chi-Sau V-VII_). 

 If you look at the hand positions of Sifu Parker at the top of page 55, and again at the position of LT at the top of page 58, you will see the resemblance to the low bong and wu-sau demonstrated by Pan Nam in his Chum Kiu. LT refers to his application of this application as _kow-bak jar-cheung_ or "linking-shoulder with palm-strike" but I heard it referred to as "Shoulder-bong and Pan Nam hand" _Now_ I know why. BTW, I thought that video was pretty cool. What about you guys?


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## Nabakatsu (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm digging it, thanks much man!


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## yak sao (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks for the info.

My si-fu refers to that part of section 6 as shoulder bong.

Also, at the beginning of the video, it looks like he is doing a kwan sao from the low crossed gaun sau position. Something that LT has always caught a lot of flak for, from the other lineages


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