# Will fighting back increase the need for advanced skills?



## shesulsa (Oct 20, 2006)

A man tried to abduct a preteen girl in our area the other day using the age-old ruse of needing help to locate a missing canine.  This girl turned and ran in the opposite direction (from which the car was heading) towards a neighbor's house (whom she knew) and told the adult there who called the police.

I'm hearing more and more of people of all ages fighting back against attackers and successfully thwarting abduction, rape, robbery and other forms of assault.  But we all know with needs met come more demands ....

What do you think is the future of criminal attack and self-defense need?  How do you think this new generation of educated, defensive potential targets will alter the thinking of the commited criminal mind?  What will our grandchildren need to learn?


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## Ceicei (Oct 20, 2006)

The criminal usually is looking for a victim with the least resistance in order to maximize their own success (in commiting the crime).  The key is to not look like that kind of victim and hopefully minimize the odds.  I will definitely encourage all my loved ones (if they're willing) to train in some type of physical defense.  They all need to use awareness strategies.  Awareness, IMHO, will help a lot in avoiding most bad situations in the first place.

- Ceicei


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## MA-Caver (Oct 20, 2006)

Who knows what the future holds? But the need to defend ones self against their fellow man has always been there. 
"Is it good to seek the past? Does it not rob the present??" asks Caine. Master Po replies, "If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. _The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past."_
Learning even the basics of self-defense/martial arts will aid a potential victim of an unwanted attack on themselves. The instinct to run from danger and to be aware of one's surroundings will be brought to the front of the mind-set and more people will escape tragic circumstances. 
Yet where no escape is (immediately) possible, then the more one knows, the better their chances of _creating_ an avenue of escape.


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## The Kidd (Oct 20, 2006)

Someone who will prey on other people are cowards and they are looking for the weak  and helpless. They will not want to exert the effort to control someone who fights back, they prey on the fear. There will always be somebody who will do anything to hurt someone but the more people who fight back and like the other person said are less of a victim then there will be less problems.


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## CoryKS (Oct 20, 2006)

Good question.  I think fighting back will increase the need for advanced skills, but only if the majority of the victim demographic adapts to current tactics.  If there are still enough potential victims that the predator need not change, he won't.  The challenge, as you've addressed, is trying to determine how the attack will change.


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## Lisa (Oct 20, 2006)

CoryKS said:


> Good question.  I think fighting back will increase the need for advanced skills, but only if the majority of the victim demographic adapts to current tactics.  If there are still enough potential victims that the predator need not change, he won't.  The challenge, as you've addressed, is trying to determine how the attack will change.



I think CoryKS makes very good points.  We need to stay one step ahead of the criminal instead of trying to catch up.  Simple put be proactive instead of reactive.  Learning to be smart and take precautions to protect yourself BEFORE it happens is vital, just as that girl did by running the opposite way.


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## searcher (Oct 20, 2006)

I think it can only be judged on a case by case basis.   Example: One of my instructors had a female student that had just started training.   She went home and got in an argument with her husband who tried to kill her and burn the house down.  She ran outside with him in pursuit.  She made it to a wood pile where she picked up a piece of wood and hit her husband in the head with it.  This very simple act saved her life and that of her children.   It was not a very "advanced" action, but it was effective.   

So to answer the question, No I don't think advanced techniques are needed.   The items one really need are the drive to survive and the willingness to do want it takes.


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## Kacey (Oct 20, 2006)

searcher said:


> So to answer the question, No I don't think advanced techniques are needed.   The items one really need are the drive to survive and the willingness to do want it takes.



Searcher, this is a very good point - especailly the second half.  Too many people are unable to muster that willingness; they are too concerned about what "might" happen to do what needs to be done.  Could I put my finger in someone's eye?  Maybe... but I could certainly punch someone in the stomach with (or without) a fistful of keys, or kick them in the knees, or a few other things that would at least keep them from following me as I leave the scene.


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## searcher (Oct 21, 2006)

Kacey, early on in my martial walk I had a master that I respect heavily tell me that a "smart" individual will hesitate prior to taking action.   This being in comparison to the typical thug on the street who does not think of the results of their actions.   That is why the Samurai worked so hard to achieve Mushin.


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## still learning (Oct 21, 2006)

Hello, Always fight back when being aducted, rape, and assulted..sometimes this meaning running away too.

Advance skills is not neccessary.  Just practice 3-4 different things that works for you (over and over till it becomes a part of you)

To strike the eyes(pokes,rips,gouge) are a great tarket to practice
The throat is other good major tarket to learn to hit1
Groin can be a excellent tarket-timing is important (catch them unware)
Learning how to talk (Verbal Judo) know how to answer and say the right things (not escalated the situtions). DO NOT LET YOUR EGO get to your head.

Learn joint breaks...if the attacker is on the ground  step on the ankles, they will not be able to get up and chase you,(just one of the many ideas here)

Common sense realistic training always leads to better prepareness..

One more thing...the adrenaline factor..or FEAR factor..this is hard to pratice for...one must be able to focus your mind to click the "ON" mode to fighting back... STUDY THIS ALOT!!..........Aloha


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## morph4me (Oct 21, 2006)

It seems to me that in every story I've ever read or heard from anybody where the target of an attack got away, the only things that were ever an issue was an awareness of what was happening and an apparent willingness to give the attacker a hard time, either by running away, putting up unexpected resistance, or making a scene that attracted attention. 

While advanced training couldn't hurt, I know too many black belts in various arts that are conflicted about using their skills on another person. I think situational awareness and the willingness to do what has to be done are all that are needed today and all that will be needed in the future.


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## MJS (Oct 22, 2006)

shesulsa said:


> A man tried to abduct a preteen girl in our area the other day using the age-old ruse of needing help to locate a missing canine. This girl turned and ran in the opposite direction (from which the car was heading) towards a neighbor's house (whom she knew) and told the adult there who called the police.
> 
> I'm hearing more and more of people of all ages fighting back against attackers and successfully thwarting abduction, rape, robbery and other forms of assault. But we all know with needs met come more demands ....
> 
> What do you think is the future of criminal attack and self-defense need? How do you think this new generation of educated, defensive potential targets will alter the thinking of the commited criminal mind? What will our grandchildren need to learn?


 
IMO, having good awareness is key and often more important than the physical skills themselves.  A few weeks ago, a man attempted to get a girl into his car while she was standing alone at the bus stop.  She didn't get in, the guy drove off, but the girl, when she got to school, was able to provide a very solid description of the man, as well as a vehicle description.  She gave the police some very good info. and with that, they've made a composite drawing of the guy and have a number of solid leads as to who this person may be.  Personally, I think she did a great job!  She was smart enough to not get into the car and take some good mental notes.

As for the physical skills...I think that is always a plus.  Sure, some have doubts as to whether or not a child will be able to defend themselves against an adult, but its worth a shot.  

Mike


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## Mustafa (Oct 22, 2006)

> As for the physical skills...I think that is always a plus. Sure, some have doubts as to whether or not a child will be able to defend themselves against an adult, but its worth a shot.


Definetly.  
(Although i dont completely agree with the terms used generally)


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## jks9199 (Oct 22, 2006)

shesulsa said:


> A man tried to abduct a preteen girl in our area the other day using the age-old ruse of needing help to locate a missing canine.  This girl turned and ran in the opposite direction (from which the car was heading) towards a neighbor's house (whom she knew) and told the adult there who called the police.
> 
> I'm hearing more and more of people of all ages fighting back against attackers and successfully thwarting abduction, rape, robbery and other forms of assault.  But we all know with needs met come more demands ....
> 
> What do you think is the future of criminal attack and self-defense need?  How do you think this new generation of educated, defensive potential targets will alter the thinking of the commited criminal mind?  What will our grandchildren need to learn?


There's no magic answer.  More people being more willing to accept their own responsibility for their immediate safety won't mean criminals will seek training to defeat more capable victims any more than a tiger goes to a gym if the gazelle population gets healthier.  Criminals always will pick victims that they perceive to be vulnerable.  What I do believe that more people resisting crime will do is reduce the overall number of victims -- but people have to start the resistance in the right places, too.  Which means taking reasonable first steps, like not looking like a victim (getting drunk & staggering out of a bar, locking doors or not leaving valuables in plain sight, for example -- I'm not meaning to address how anyone should or should not dress) and using basic security habits, like locking doors and being aware of strangers in your community.


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## Robert Lee (Oct 23, 2006)

Throwing up all over your self picking your nose And such couild even help. Fighting back at times will get a child or woman killed very often if they are not really skilled. First most are caught off guard when they are attacked. Scream make noise prevention first. tactics and then fighting as a end must. If fighting back was so easy then much less children and women would be raped abducted and killed. Sad truth is the type of people that do this are sick and  often watch and plan there attacks before going through with them. Then the random date rapes agin prevention know something about who you date or make sure not to drink and put your self at a weak moment until the person has demonstrated they can be trusted. Its good to learn to fight But its good to learn to think smart. 120 pound woman aginst 200 pound man odds are much less and then 50 pound child much more less fighting back


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## still learning (Oct 24, 2006)

Robert Lee said:


> Throwing up all over your self picking your nose And such couild even help. Fighting back at times will get a child or woman killed very often if they are not really skilled. First most are caught off guard when they are attacked. Scream make noise prevention first. tactics and then fighting as a end must. If fighting back was so easy then much less children and women would be raped abducted and killed. Sad truth is the type of people that do this are sick and often watch and plan there attacks before going through with them. Then the random date rapes agin prevention know something about who you date or make sure not to drink and put your self at a weak moment until the person has demonstrated they can be trusted. Its good to learn to fight But its good to learn to think smart. 120 pound woman aginst 200 pound man odds are much less and then 50 pound child much more less fighting back


 
Hello, You still can get kill if you do not fight back!  Best to fight back when attack/assulted/aducted/rape....your chances will increase in survival..the idea here is to escape and run away!

Most rape victims ..later wish they had fought back...NO two situtions will be alike....we are going to have to trust our intincts on this...

If you do everything the attacker wants...is this a good idea..just because they are bigger?

Yes! think smarter, learn when and where to strike....if aducted in an car..you can always try to grab the steering wheel and crash the car,especially in a crowded city....

They will be no right answer for ever situtions....we can only hope what we choose will work in our flavor...you can act like a sheep or be the RAM"!,tiger,monkey,dragon,snake,crane,or jet li .......Aloha


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## Robert Lee (Oct 24, 2006)

Yes fight back But as you should know  Knowing a M/A or being a black belt means very little in the real deal. And many self defences tools if not trained well are not any good aginst a person bent on doing you harm and is 2 or 3 times larger then you.  Screams disgusting actions can help. Being smart helps the most.  You know When I see on tv after a child is abucted and the money hungry M/A instructors come out of the shadows And start a prevention program get it showed on the local news. I laugh. All they are doing is making a buck and putting people at risk with fancy moves that they could not even do in a real life  threat. But hey they get a few dollars. I have been in the M/A for over 34 years. Befor that I boxed. I fought. You give a child or woman The positive defence training simple tactics. And educate them on prevention, awareness, Safe ways to handle something.And make them aware to fight back as way to escape. But that at times its best to use there mind. I am not trying to say Its wrong to just fight back. But first be smart ,Knowing what not to do prevents  Knowing what to do helps. And a gun or knife even rope cuts odds in fighting back. Throw up all over yourself A rapist might just leave.


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## morph4me (Oct 25, 2006)

Robert Lee said:


> Throw up all over yourself A rapist might just leave.


 
Why? What would make a person intent on domination and control leave because you've given him what he wants? Why wouldn't he interpret that as fear and just get more aggressive?

We all know that each situation is different, what works in one situation will not work in others, but I'm going to have to agree with still learning on this one.


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## shesulsa (Oct 25, 2006)

morph4me said:


> Why? What would make a person intent on domination and control leave because you've given him what he wants? Why wouldn't he interpret that as fear and just get more aggressive?



The idea is to make yourself as unattractive to the attacker as possible; some will become disgusted and leave you be.


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## searcher (Oct 25, 2006)

Predators attack prey and not other predators.   We should present ourselves as another predator and not as prey.   If you are self-confident you will be less savory to a possible attacker.


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## morph4me (Oct 25, 2006)

shesulsa said:


> The idea is to make yourself as unattractive to the attacker as possible; some will become disgusted and leave you be.


 
I understand the theory, but rape is not about the rapist being attracted to the victim, if it were there would only be attractive victims. Rape about rage, domination and control. My point is that making oneself unattractive or disgusting may work for some rapists, but not all, there are just too many sicko's out there.


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## Robert Lee (Oct 25, 2006)

Fighting back is just part of the needs to stay safe. Other aspect should allways be taught and then as each thing happens one can hope something then might help.


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## Father Greek (Oct 25, 2006)

TO ALL WHO HAVE POSTED ON THIS SUBJECT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANKS FOR BRINGING UP A VERY SCARY SUBJECT. ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO A FEMALE STUDENT CAME TO ME ASKING ABOUT DATE RAPE. I DIDN'T HAVE AN ANSWER BUT TOLD HER I WOULD FIND OUT. I CALLED THE LOCAL RAPE CRISIS CENTER AND ASKED FOR INFORMATION. THIS LED ME TO BECOME A HOSPITAL ADVOCATE VOLUNTEER FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS. I GO TO THE ER WHEN RAPE SURVIVORS ARE BROUGHT IN. IN TEN YEARS I HAVE BEEN ON OVER 100 CALLS AND NONE OF THEM ARE THE SAME. EACH SITUATION WAS DIFFERENT. TO TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE WE MUST TEACH OUR STUDENTS AWARENESS AND AVOIDANCE FIRST. AFTER THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT RAPE TRULY IS THEN WE CAN TEACH THEM HOW TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES THAT WHAT YOU TEACH WILL BE USED BUT YOU WILL AT LEAST GIVE THEM THE TOOLS TO USE. I WAS ONCE ASKED AT A SEMINAR FOR WOMEN "WHAT SHOULD WE SAY TO OUR DAUGHTERS ABOUT RAPE?" i TOLD THE WOMEN TO BE HONEST AND OPEN AND THEN ASKED THEM WHAT  SHOULD WE SAY TO OUR SONS ABOUT RAPE? REMEMBER THAT 1 OUT OF 3 WOMEN WILL BE THE VICTIM OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND 1 OUT OF 8 MEN WILL BE VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. I URGE ALL OF YOU INSTRUCTORS AND STUDENTS ALIKE TO CONTACT YOUR NEAREST RAPE CRISIS CENTER FOR MORE INFORMATION. I WILL NOW CLIMB OFF OF MY SOAPBOX. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

FATHER GREEK


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## morph4me (Oct 25, 2006)

Robert Lee said:


> Fighting back is just part of the needs to stay safe. Other aspect should allways be taught and then as each thing happens one can hope something then might help.


 
Absolutely, no arguement there. Fighting back physically should be the last resort for anyone.


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