# Nipple Rings Cause Airport Security Issue



## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

* Nipple Rings Cause Airport Security Issue *





*Author: *AP   *Source: *MSNBC 




*Title: *NIPPLE RINGS CAUSE AIRPORT SECURITY ISSUE

A Texas woman who said she was forced to remove a nipple ring with pliers in order to board an airplane called Thursday for an apology by federal security agents and a civil rights investigation.

"I wouldn't wish this experience upon anyone," Mandi Hamlin said at a news conference. "My experience with TSA was a nightmare I had to endure. No one deserves to be treated this way."

Hamlin, 37, said she was trying to board a flight from Lubbock to Dallas on Feb. 24 when she was scanned by a Transportation Security Administration agent after passing through a larger metal detector without problems.

The female TSA agent used a handheld detector that beeped when it passed in front of Hamlin's chest, the Dallas-area resident said.

Hamlin said she told the woman she was wearing nipple piercings. The agent then called over her male colleagues, one of whom said she would have to remove the jewelry, Hamlin said.
*Options:*   [*Read Full Story*]
Source: http://www.witchvox.com/wren/wn_detail.html?id=19528


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## MJS (Apr 3, 2008)

That TSA worker needs to either be fired or retrained, because IMHO, there was no reason to make this woman do what she did. At the most, going into a private area to show the worker, and using a hand held detector would have been fine.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2008)

This is a direct consequence of the over-inflated, fear-based, legislation that America has allowed herself to be made subject to.  

It has been seen over and again throughout history that if government puts powers in the hands of 'little men' then those men will eventually come to abuse it because they have the authority to do so.  

Without wanting to turn this issue into a beacon and be a 'drama queen' about it, of such small incursions into personal freedom are police states made.  Just ask the Germans or Russians.


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## MA-Caver (Apr 3, 2008)

Heh, that brings to mind of several people that I know personally who have piercings umm, a little further south of the belly button. Would the Security have them remove them? Sheesh.
Getting a bit much. How are nipple rings gonna be used to take over an airplane? Shock value?


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## shesulsa (Apr 3, 2008)

I reviewed their PDF file on allowable items and they have guideline on  body piercings whatsoever.  I'm sorry - the insistence that the item be removed (in front of male security no less) was completely out of line.

I think she should ask for more than an apology. I think she should ask for damages.

I'm sure we have some folks here with body piercings - do you guys remove your jewelry before going through security?


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## terryl965 (Apr 3, 2008)

This was by far the biggest outrage down here, the people involved should be fired plan and simple.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

I refuse to fly because of the continued incompetence shown by the airlines and so called airport security. I refuse to subject myself to their scruitiny, nor risk my property in their bagage mishandling system (which still allows dangerous items through, and doesn't safeguard my privacy nor property).

And, no. I wouldn't remove my piercings. In fact, I don't, ever.


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 3, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> This is a direct consequence of the over-inflated, fear-based, legislation that America has allowed herself to be made subject to.
> 
> It has been seen over and again throughout history that if government puts powers in the hands of 'little men' then those men will eventually come to abuse it because they have the authority to do so.
> 
> Without wanting to turn this issue into a beacon and be a 'drama queen' about it, of such small incursions into personal freedom are police states made. Just ask the Germans or Russians.


 
There was a time in the US when the only Federal organ with police powers was the Marshal Service, but since about the mid seventies more and more federal agencies have acquired them.  It is never wise to give the petit bureaucrat any real power at all becaue he will abuse it, and it looks like the TSA is a prime example of this.


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## Carol (Apr 3, 2008)

I can't remember how the TSA regs are written.  I know the traveler has the right to ask for a security screener of the same gender.  I don't know if it is required that the screener must be of the same gender.

When I last flew at Christmas I had to go through the full screening by TSA for all 4 legs of my trip because my ID was expired (3.5 weeks out of date).  Each time there was a call for a female screener.........except for the final leg of my trip going home...when the very tired looking female screener looked at me, looked at why I was flagged, then motioned me through the gate mouthing "Just go...go..."  :lol2:


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## Big Don (Apr 3, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> This is a direct consequence of the over-inflated, fear-based, legislation that America has allowed herself to be made subject to.


I doubt it. Remember, we are only hearing ONE SIDE of the story, and that side's proponent has a flashy (Allred) attorney and is suing for millions...

In my (admittedly limited) experience with law enforcement, the less reasonable the suspect, the less reasonable the LEO's...


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I refuse to fly because of the continued incompetence shown by the airlines and so called airport security. I refuse to subject myself to their scruitiny, nor risk my property in their bagage mishandling system (which still allows dangerous items through, and doesn't safeguard my privacy nor property).


Exactly how I feel.


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## elder999 (Apr 3, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I doubt it. Remember, we are only hearing ONE SIDE of the story, and that side's proponent has a flashy (Allred) attorney and is suing for millions...
> 
> In my (admittedly limited) experience with law enforcement, the less reasonable the suspect, the less reasonable the LEO's...


 
Yeah, except TSA are hardly "law enforcement"......the vast majority of them aren't even former or retired "law enforcement." In fact, the DHS nickname for security screeners (as well as quite a few other people) and their methods is "_revenge of the "C" students._"


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

elder999 said:


> In fact, the DHS nickname for security screeners (as well as quite a few other people) and their methods is "_revenge of the "C" students._"


I thought that was the nickname for DHS? Just kidding. Anyone who works there, _it was a joke._


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## elder999 (Apr 3, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> I thought that was the nickname for DHS? Just kidding. Anyone who works there, _it was a joke._


 
Naahh-it's really the nickname for the entire administration, _and that's no joke at all......_


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## tellner (Apr 3, 2008)

Bruce Schneier talks much about "Security Theater". This is security theater at its finest. It doesn't decrease any real risks. It makes people think something is being done. It keeps the huddled masses in a state of constant low grade anxiety.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 3, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I doubt it. Remember, we are only hearing ONE SIDE of the story, and that side's proponent has a flashy (Allred) attorney and is suing for millions...
> 
> In my (admittedly limited) experience with law enforcement, the less reasonable the suspect, the less reasonable the LEO's...


 
To your first - really?  So they should and I hope they get it.  I'm sorry Don but on this we are not going to agree.  In fact you shouldn't even agree with yourself on such a breach of personal dignity, let alone the much vaunted but in reality little defended rights of the American individual.


On the latter, yes, that is true.  On what do you base your reaction to the person at the centre of this farrago?


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2008)

What?



Who the bloody.....

What the bloody.......

WHY the bloody........What did they think, she'd pull the ring off and there'd be a 5 second boob grenade fuse or something??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

The anatomy in question to which the ring was attached is by no means the boob in this story, I'll tell you what.


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## Big Don (Apr 3, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> To your first - really?  So they should and I hope they get it.  I'm sorry Don but on this we are not going to agree.  In fact you shouldn't even agree with yourself on such a breach of personal dignity, let alone the much vaunted but in reality little defended rights of the American individual.
> 
> 
> On the latter, yes, that is true.  On what do you base your reaction to the person at the centre of this farrago?


 I'll bet, when we finally get the whole story, (the video, etc) we will see Hamlin was belligerent from the start.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

Maybe they thought she was a FemBot?


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## newGuy12 (Apr 3, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I'll bet, when we finally get the whole story, (the video, etc) we will see Hamlin was belligerent from the start.


It doesn't matter.  It would have no bearing on this.  None.



Andy Moynihan said:


> What?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its what has happened to the country that you once knew.  The country that is now gone.



Bob Hubbard said:


> I refuse to fly because of the continued incompetence shown by the airlines and so called airport security.


Thankfully you don't have a job that requires you to fly!  This type of thing is certainly going to fuel an increase in private air travel, for the people who can afford it.



Bob Hubbard said:


> And, no. I wouldn't remove my piercings. In fact, I don't, ever.



But in the future, those who DO plan on using airplanes may end up wearing the shock bracelet:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/20/air-safety-proposal.html

Haha -- I admit, THAT is funny.



Sukerkin said:


> This is a direct consequence of the over-inflated, fear-based, legislation that America has allowed herself to be made subject to.



I'm embarrassed that my countrymen would put up with this.  I also bemoan the loss of what I consider to be a good country (I've seen better days).  

If we can JUST hold on... if we can just not withstand a timely "terrorist attack" that would derail the election process.  If we can JUST not vote Republican this one time...  Hold on... we are going under.  I can feel it.  We have to turn off this fear machine.  Turn off the "borrow and spend" for a blank check war.  I truly do feel that as was said on this board before, I would start taking wagers that the US will not survive as an entity for too much longer.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2008)

You needed to make a bet about that?


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## elder999 (Apr 3, 2008)

1)  TSA changes policy for piercings....apparently, they didn't differentiate between ear piercings and piercings elsewhere.

2)Hamlin and her attorney do not plan any further legal action, according to the Dallas Morning News article.

Yer probably OTL on this one, Don.....


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> The anatomy in question to which the ring was attached is by no means the boob in this story, I'll tell you what.


:rofl: Thanks Andy, I needed that.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2008)

And people wonder why I refuse to fly.

Right.

Anyone who still blindly insists we are NOT poised on an inevitable and imminent societal collapse can shut up now, thank you very much.


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## MJS (Apr 3, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I'll bet, when we finally get the whole story, (the video, etc) we will see Hamlin was belligerent from the start.


 


newGuy12 said:


> It doesn't matter. It would have no bearing on this. None.


 
Well, I have to agree with newguy12 on this.  IMHO, her attitude, whatever it was, and we may very well never know, really doesnt play that much of a role in this.  The main issue at hand is why the TSA person felt it was necessary to pretty much embarrass this female.  

Now, my wife and I travel and we've never had to take jewelery off.  We wear our wedding rings, she wears earrings, and not once have we had an issue.  Different material?  Don't know, but in any case, I'm sure there were more professional ways to address this issue.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

NewGuy is just spouting typical liberal twoddle. You think America is in so much trouble NEwGuy?
 Were you ever in the service?
 have you ever been outside america?

 Well I have. I have seen REALLY bad places. Cops directing traffic in South Korea have M-16's and if you run? they shoot you

Police in the phillipines carry sawed off shotguns

THATS oppression.

America is a paradise and some people are so partisan they have to yap yap yap just cuz the current president does have the right letter have his name

people like that make me sick

regarding the incident in question:

I would certainly fire the people that handled this situation so badly. All they had to do was have a female officer visually verify that she did indeed have pierced nipples.

Weather they were just idiots, or she gave them reason to doubt her by her actions one one level doesnt really matter, they should have just had her searched by a female officer and let her go. On another level it matters very much. Her attitude DOES matter, because if you are cool, the cops will be cool with you. If you act like an ***, so will they, and they will win.

But thats all this is, a badly handled search

this isnt the deathnell of a nation, just a a badly mishandled search.

Let me clue you children in on a few facts boys and girls.

Our airline security was a JOKE before 9-11, and in truth it STILL is

You think flying here is a pain? some violation of some rights you think you have? 

Try flying in Israel

How exactly did we get hit for over 3000 dead? thats right, our security was a JOKE. And 19 guys were able to slip through it with no real effort.

and now people have the audacity to ***** and moan when we are finally doing what we should have been all along?

WAKE UP

The world changed one September morning back in 2001. 

DEAL WITH IT


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2008)

Twin Fist, I understand your frustration and your points' bro, but there's no need to take it personal with anyone. People that feel attacked stop listening, and that isn't something anyone with any salient  point to make can afford.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


 

As true today as when Ben first said it.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.



blah blah blah

only the living have liberties

only the living are around to whine and moan about the president.

care to argue that point?


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

The living don't just whine and moan about Gov. Bush.
Some of the living exist to wander blind to reality, ignorant to what this country was founded on, and once stood for.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. "


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## MJS (Apr 3, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> NewGuy is just spouting typical liberal twoddle. You think America is in so much trouble NEwGuy?
> Were you ever in the service?
> have you ever been outside america?
> 
> ...


 


Twin Fist said:


> blah blah blah
> 
> only the living have liberties
> 
> ...


 
Everyone is going to have a different point of view.  No need to take personal shots at members of the forum.  We have a good thread going here.  Please don't ruin it.


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## jks9199 (Apr 3, 2008)

MJS said:


> Everyone is going to have a different point of view.  No need to take personal shots at members of the forum.  We have a good thread going here.  Please don't ruin it.


The discourteous discourse seems to be going both ways...

Let's be real.  The search was badly mishandled.  At most, there should have been a visual inspection by a FEMALE TSA officer.  I see no justification for, in an air traveler, cutting the piercing off.  (There are situations where it would be justified, like in a jail.)

But stupidity by a few people isn't the death knell of liberty, nor is it proof that there's some sort of vast collusion to steal our rights.  Nor is complaining about the stupidity and randomness of the TSA policies (There's plenty to be puzzled at there... and the screeners are sometimes beyond stupid.  Shoot, they can't even give you a straight answer about removing your shoes!) some sort of outrageous, anti-American, socialist point of view.  It's not even a "spoiled by the good life" naivette.  

In fact, I'll lay you odds, dollars to donuts, that the next major terrorist event in the US (yes, there will be another one) will NOT involve airplanes.  Especially not an airliner.  In fact, I won't be at all surprised if the next significant terrorist event involves homegrown  terrorists, not Al-Queda or any other international terrorist.


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## MJS (Apr 3, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> The discourteous discourse seems to be going both ways...


 
yup...certainly a thread killer.  I've already reported a few posts, but as always, I encourage the rest of the members to do the same, should they feel a post is rude.



> Let's be real. The search was badly mishandled. At most, there should have been a visual inspection by a FEMALE TSA officer. I see no justification for, in an air traveler, cutting the piercing off. (There are situations where it would be justified, like in a jail.)
> 
> But stupidity by a few people isn't the death knell of liberty, nor is it proof that there's some sort of vast collusion to steal our rights. Nor is complaining about the stupidity and randomness of the TSA policies (There's plenty to be puzzled at there... and the screeners are sometimes beyond stupid. Shoot, they can't even give you a straight answer about removing your shoes!) some sort of outrageous, anti-American, socialist point of view. It's not even a "spoiled by the good life" naivette.
> 
> In fact, I'll lay you odds, dollars to donuts, that the next major terrorist event in the US (yes, there will be another one) will NOT involve airplanes. Especially not an airliner. In fact, I won't be at all surprised if the next significant terrorist event involves homegrown terrorists, not Al-Queda or any other international terrorist.


 
Well, no argument from me.   In fact, all I was arguing, was the fact that the incident was handled badly.  I wasn't getting on the subject of anything else.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 3, 2008)

Here's my question.

Isolated incident, or, one of many similar?  Is it just certain airports, or all of them?  I haven't heard of nor seen any issues at the Buffalo airport.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

Gov Bush?

oh man, thats rich

elected AND re-elected

and you call him Gov Bush

Seriously, i am laughing now. 

MJS,
I didnt insult anyone personally. Just the opinion they spouted. For all I know Bob is nice to puppies and old people. He might be Mother Teresa incarnate. Newguy is I am sure a hell of a nice guy, he seems that way.

His opinion, and Bob's on the other hand are fair game.


actually I am putting my money on the next terror attack to be a dirty nuke, that comes in a shipping container to San Pedro, or some other port. Those things are pretty much never inspected


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## elder999 (Apr 3, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> In fact, I'll lay you odds, dollars to donuts, that the next major terrorist event in the US (yes, there will be another one) will NOT involve airplanes. Especially not an airliner. In fact, I won't be at all surprised if the next significant terrorist event involves homegrown terrorists, not Al-Queda or any other international terrorist.


 
Nah-next one will be Chechens-without a plane,though.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Here's my question.
> 
> Isolated incident, or, one of many similar?  Is it just certain airports, or all of them?  I haven't heard of nor seen any issues at the Buffalo airport.




human stupidity is endemic 

there have been other incidents i am sure. And thats all this is, a really good example of human stupidity


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## MJS (Apr 3, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> MJS,
> I didnt insult anyone personally. Just the opinion they spouted. For all I know Bob is nice to puppies and old people. He might be Mother Teresa incarnate. Newguy is I am sure a hell of a nice guy, he seems that way.
> 
> His opinion, and Bob's on the other hand are fair game.


 
For reference purposes.  
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58550

Anyways...back to the thread.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> NewGuy is just spouting typical liberal twoddle. You think America is in so much trouble NEwGuy?


I'm not NG, but may I step in here? I believe we're in a bit of trouble, yes.


> Were you ever in the service?


1971-75.


> have you ever been outside america?


Japan, Okinawa, Taiwan, P.I. (Subic Bay, no less ), Hong Kong, Japan, Fiji Islands, Australia, did I say Japan, Korea, and probably a few I've forgotten. Couldn't go to mainland China in those days, except as a POW, and by the time I got there, we were rolling up our stuff and going home in Vietnam, so I missed that.

Later in business in the 80s, England, Germany, Austria, and Hungary (when it was behind the Iron Curtain--hair raising).



> Well I have. I have seen REALLY bad places. Cops directing traffic in South Korea have M-16's and if you run? they shoot you


I've seen _Shore Patrol_ with the same bad intentions. 



> Police in the phillipines carry sawed off shotguns


When I was there, the bouncers did too. 



> THATS oppression.


Which part, yours or my additions?



> America is a paradise


Well, I do agree we're not beyond redemption. But we could use some changes, and mighty fast.  



> regarding the incident in question:
> 
> I would certainly fire the people that handled this situation so badly. All they had to do was have a female officer visually verify that she did indeed have pierced nipples.
> 
> Weather they were just idiots, or she gave them reason to doubt her by her actions one one level doesnt really matter, they should have just had her searched by a female officer and let her go.


Agreed.



> On another level it matters very much. Her attitude DOES matter, because if you are cool, the cops will be cool with you. If you act like an ***, so will they, and they will win.


Well, I could tell a very long winded story about getting rousted by a baby cop in Oklahoma City--where I was born, BTW, about a week ago on the way to my brother's funeral. I was admittedly in the wrong (illegal lane change on the freeway), but it was about 12 hours into a 14 hour drive for the day, and I'm a senior citizen. :yoda: It was almost surreal the questions he asked. Now I'm always respectful to LEO's, whether I particularly like them or not, and this kid was a nice guy, but a little...off. Maybe it was the out-of-state plates, maybe I looked half crazed after five states and three time zones in two days, or, who knows. But he ended up asking for my wife's ID too (she's a preschool teacher, so yeah, she is pretty tough) frisking me (squeezed the equipment pretty darned hard, too :wink, putting me in the back of his car (my knees don't fold like they used to), all so he could write me a warning--for which I was grateful, don't get me wrong. But really...look up my pic--along with our ferocious beast who he saw also--in the MT photos and tell me if I look like a drug runner or drug trafficker.

My point is, being cool with LE can mean a whole bucket full of different worms in different places, times, and between generations.




> Let me clue you children in on a few facts boys and girls.


How old are you, again? Old enough to patronize everyone on this thread? 



> WAKE UP
> 
> The world changed one September morning back in 2001.
> 
> DEAL WITH IT


But that's the point, isn't it? Are we dealing with it, or just diverting attention?

I don't mean this to be critical, *T-F*, I think you've had some really good things to say on the board. But maybe if we all back off just a little and take a deep breath? Might all have a better evening.


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## Kacey (Apr 3, 2008)

To return to the original topic - I think that mistakes were made all around.  I have no idea what attitude Ms. Hamlin displayed, so I cannot speak to that.  However, any screening that required removal of clothing to expose the breasts should have been limited to same-gender screeners.  That one of the piercings required pliers to remove it points out the idiocy of this event in general - if Ms. Hamlin needed pliers to get it out, it seems highly unlikely that she have been able to threaten anyone with it on the plane.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

fair enough boss.

And and thanks for your service BTW I dont think veterans hear that enough 

and if you survived Olongapo, you're ok in my book. But when i smell it, i call it.  And this thread was getting thick with it.


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## kidswarrior (Apr 3, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> fair enough boss.
> 
> And and thanks for your service BTW I dont think veterans hear that enough
> 
> and if you survived Olongapo, you're ok in my book. But when i smell it, i call it.  And this thread was getting thick with it.


Now you're sounding like a knowledgeable patriot and a vet with some real-world experience. :asian: Thanks for your gratitude and posts.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 3, 2008)

i left a LOT of myself in O'PO back int he day, i know of what you speak


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## arnisador (Apr 3, 2008)

MJS said:


> That TSA worker needs to either be fired or retrained, because IMHO, there was no reason to make this woman do what she did. At the most, going into a private area to show the worker, and using a hand held detector would have been fine.



I don't know...they have to be sure what's setting off the detector. But yes, a hand-held wand almost surely could've done that.


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## CanuckMA (Apr 4, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I don't know...they have to be sure what's setting off the detector. But yes, a hand-held wand almost surely could've done that.


 

But that's the thing. The detector didn't go off. She was screened with a handheld anyway. The handheld went off in front of her chest. Once she tells the screener that she has piercings, all that is needed is a visual inspection in a private space by a same sex screener. No need to remove the jewlery. 

I fly a lot. I carry pens and pencils in my computer bag. I also have an Epi-pen. I can do a whole lot more damage with those than with a nipple ring. Heck, we let people on with bootles of booze purchased at the duty free. I can't carry on a pair of tweezers, but some idiot can come on board with a glass bottle?


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## shesulsa (Apr 4, 2008)

The strange things are:

1. Most jewelry doesn't set of metal detectors anyway, but I've noticed at PDX they have the MDs turned to such a sensitivity that just about any metal of a certain gauge or above will set them off.  I'm thinking this lady's jewelry may have been the less expensive kind - made of surgical steel rather than silver, gold, platinum or titanium.

2. Why did she need to be inspected by males? Why would a woman send her to be visually inspected by males? And again, why would she have to remove it? Did they think she was hiding C4 in her breast?

If this had happened to me, I'd give a little attitude ... and make a phone call to my lawyer.


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## MJS (Apr 4, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I don't know...they have to be sure what's setting off the detector. But yes, a hand-held wand almost surely could've done that.


 

My appologies.  I didn't read my post as well as I should've before I hit submit.  What I meant to say was, at the least, (not the most) they should have done was take her to a private area, with a same sex screener and use the hand held wand.  But, to have her take them, or attempt to take them out...I'm sorry, but there was no need for that IMHO.


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## MJS (Apr 4, 2008)

CanuckMA said:


> But that's the thing. The detector didn't go off. She was screened with a handheld anyway. The handheld went off in front of her chest. Once she tells the screener that she has piercings, all that is needed is a visual inspection in a private space by a same sex screener. No need to remove the jewlery.


 
And that is a question that is an important one.  Why was she screened a 2nd time, if she passed thru without issue the first time?  I'm not as frequent a flyer as some, so I may not know the answer to this but, do they randomly pick people to hand screen, even if they pass thru the initial large machine without issue?



> I fly a lot. I carry pens and pencils in my computer bag. I also have an Epi-pen. I can do a whole lot more damage with those than with a nipple ring. Heck, we let people on with bootles of booze purchased at the duty free. I can't carry on a pair of tweezers, but some idiot can come on board with a glass bottle?


 
Exactly!!!


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

Well, the really important question is, was she hot?


kidding, 

Have they been fired yet?


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## Ping898 (Apr 4, 2008)

MJS said:


> And that is a question that is an important one.  Why was she screened a 2nd time, if she passed thru without issue the first time?  I'm not as frequent a flyer as some, so I may not know the answer to this but, do they randomly pick people to hand screen, even if they pass thru the initial large machine without issue?



Yes.  Some of that is done on the TSA line and some of it is done when you get your ticket....ever see SSSS on your ticket, 99.9% chance you will get extra screening even if you never set off any alarms....


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## The Last Legionary (Apr 4, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> Well, the really important question is, was she hot?
> 
> 
> kidding,
> ...


Truly, you have a dizzing intellect.

I always set off the machine when I go through, but I refuse to show any guy my goods. The Monster isn't a display item, and not just any government goon gets to see him. 

On a serious note, these continued invasions of our privacy do nothing but give the illusion of safety. Guns and drugs and other things still are making it on the planes, and they are worried about some woman's ****. Maybe it's just me, but the priority seems misplaced.


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## CanuckMA (Apr 4, 2008)

MJS said:


> And that is a question that is an important one. Why was she screened a 2nd time, if she passed thru without issue the first time? I'm not as frequent a flyer as some, so I may not know the answer to this but, do they randomly pick people to hand screen, even if they pass thru the initial large machine without issue?


 
Yes. I've been wanded and even patted down even without setting off the metal detector. It's a random thing.


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## MJS (Apr 4, 2008)

Ping898 said:


> Yes. Some of that is done on the TSA line and some of it is done when you get your ticket....ever see SSSS on your ticket, 99.9% chance you will get extra screening even if you never set off any alarms....


 


CanuckMA said:


> Yes. I've been wanded and even patted down even without setting off the metal detector. It's a random thing.


 
Thank you both for that clarification. 

Mike


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

having to go through metal detectors is better than not

from a security point of view.

that cant really be debated


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 4, 2008)

No, and I don't think anyone is debating it. I think the point here was the violation of privacy and lack of sensitivity in this particular matter.

The other thing is, while metal detectors detect, metal, they do not detect, obsidian.
So the item below, which is as sharp as a scalpel would be missed. It's much more effective as a weapon than, oh, nail files, knitting needles and those infamous box cutters were.


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## arnisador (Apr 4, 2008)

Well, that's one reason they're working on the x-ray scatter devices, which would reveal those.

The obsidian breaks pretty easily on use but yeah it's better than nothing.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

man, thats a serious knife


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## Sukerkin (Apr 4, 2008)

As a minor technical thread diversion, isn't it the case that the metal detectors only pick up on ferrous metals?  I ask because I've been through quite a number of them at airports and whilst on jury service and none of them have ever reacted to the Terminator amount of titanium and platinum buried inside me.


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## Ping898 (Apr 4, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> As a minor technical thread diversion, isn't it the case that the metal detectors only pick up on ferrous metals?  I ask because I've been through quite a number of them at airports and whilst on jury service and none of them have ever reacted to the Terminator amount of titanium and platinum buried inside me.



I think some of that depends on the sensitivity or even the type of the metal detector you are walking through...but also I was always under the impression that they were attuned for the type of metal things like guns and other weapons are made of...


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## theletch1 (Apr 4, 2008)

A ceramic blade doesn't set off the detector either and can do enormous damage.  I've heard a little about the x-ray scatter devices but not much.  I'm curious as to whether there will be the same detrimental effects of these as with the type of x-ray machine they have at the hospital.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 4, 2008)

That's true, *Ping* and it may be also that my flesh acts to 'mask' a little of the signal but given that the trials I was on were of a sensitive nature and the detectors there were flanked by flak jacketed police with MP5's (something we *do not* usually see in this country) I would imagine their detector was fairly sensitive.


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> the trials I was on were of a sensitive nature and the detectors there were flanked by flak jacketed police with MP5's (something we *do not* usually see in this country) I would imagine their detector was fairly sensitive.



wow


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## tellner (Apr 4, 2008)

Sukerkin, a metal detector (in a very simplified way) works by moving a conductor through a magnetic field. This induces a current which can be detected. The people you see waving them around on the beach find coins by just that mechanism. We have not had steel coins in the US since the Second World War. 

Some are designed to pick up only ferrous metals. Most are not. The details of the TSA's metal detectors are probably confidential. 

There has been some work recently in backscatter x-rays and microwave technologies that would detect any hard object. I don't think they're ready for prime time. Look for them soon to airports, tube stations, schools and all public buildings.


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## MJS (Apr 4, 2008)

Twin Fist said:


> having to go through metal detectors is better than not
> 
> from a security point of view.
> 
> that cant really be debated


 
Well, as Bob said, I'm not debating that.  I'm debating the method that the people used.  By all means, if something sets off the bells and whistles, certainly act on it.  But, act on it in a professional manner.


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## Ping898 (Apr 4, 2008)

tellner said:


> The details of the TSA's metal detectors are probably confidential.


But could probably be found with the right google search query


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## Twin Fist (Apr 4, 2008)

MJS said:


> Well, as Bob said, I'm not debating that.  I'm debating the method that the people used.  By all means, if something sets off the bells and whistles, certainly act on it.  But, act on it in a professional manner.



absolutely


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## jks9199 (Apr 4, 2008)

Ping898 said:


> But could probably be found with the right google search query


They use commercial products...

And they all work pretty much the same way.


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## The Last Legionary (Apr 4, 2008)

*<ADMIN NOTE: SOME LINKS NOT SAFE FOR WORK>*

Maybe we can train future TSA screeners?

This is NOT a weapon.
http://www.ringsofdesire.com/images/piercing/gallery/nipple/nipple_dia_fem_lg.jpg

This IS a weapon.
http://www.debreuil.com/sky2005/Downloads/Pictures/Gun.png

This is NOT  weapon
http://www.pointedimage.com/site_co...ges/piercing-image-gallery/Nipple/Nipple3.jpg

This IS a weapon
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/M-67Grenade.jpg/371px-M-67Grenade.jpg

Now, both of the last 2 have a ring involved, so I can see how someone with a 2 IQ might confuse the 2. Now, if that is the case, maybe we need to put people who are at least as competent as the teen loser spitting in your food at the burger joint in uniform. They at least can tell the difference between bombs and boobs.

If you are still confused on which is the bad one, please ask the President. The one he is afraid of is the boobie. That one does not go Ka'Boom.
Unless it's Pam Anderson's.


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