# Kindai-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu



## Natitude (Jul 21, 2016)

I was wondering if anyone has practiced in or heard of kindai-ryu jiu-jitsu? What are your thoughts? I'm looking for "real world" self defense. I'm not worried about earning a black belt, competitions, or anything like that. I just want to learn what would help me defend myself on the streets. My options around me are kindai- ryu, bjj, myui thai, and russian systema. Any and all opinions on any of those are welcomed and appreciated!! Thanks again!!


"Protected by Shield"


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## Chris Parker (Jul 22, 2016)

Hi Natitude,

As mentioned in your other thread, there are some things that can be said about "Kindai Ryu Jujitsu"… and, honestly, it's a mixed bag. Kindai Ryu was founded by Charles Neal, who was one of the early Judo pioneers in the US… as well as being a karate-ka (Shito Ryu, from memory). And, realistically, it's kind of a mixture of the two, which isn't too bad. However there are some gigantic questions over the claimed history, as well as some prevalent and very basic errors when it comes to their own terminology and so forth, which always puts me on the back foot when they arise. This includes issues as simple as not correctly translating their own name, to more fanciful ideas like claiming that their system is "the most dangerous Japanese art ever forgotten"… which is coupled with the idea that the Japanese buried the art in order to not let it fall into the hands of foreigners… honestly, that's all a bit Hong Kong Chop-soky movie fantasy for me… and, with that, I'd put them out the window straight away.

What I will say positively for them is that, despite the bizarre claims, the core seems to be relatively solid… and of much better basis than many of the other systems of the same era and pedigree (Ron Duncan was originally a student there, for instance… hmm…).


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 22, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> However there are some gigantic questions over the claimed history, as well as some prevalent and very basic errors when it comes to their own terminology and so forth, which always puts me on the back foot when they arise. This includes issues as simple as not correctly translating their own name, to more fanciful ideas like claiming that their system is "the most dangerous Japanese art ever forgotten"… which is coupled with the idea that the Japanese buried the art in order to not let it fall into the hands of foreigners… honestly, that's all a bit Hong Kong Chop-soky movie fantasy for me… and, with that, I'd put them out the window straight away


In fairness, lots of legitimate martial arts have been promoted with bogus histories along the way - either by their founders or by subsequent practitioners. BJJ, TKD, Togakure Ryu, and many, many more. I'm a fan of trying to learn as much as possible about the real history of martial arts (especially ones I'm studying), but for the average student it doesn't make a lot of difference.

Natitude - you linked this website Kindai Ryu in your other thread. If this is the school near you I might have a couple of potential concerns.


According to their schedule, they only have one class per week. In my opinion it is very difficult to progress very quickly in a grappling based art if you only train one day per week. It's not really deal for any art, but at least with a striking art which uses solo kata you could practice kata and bag work on your own during the week. However a grappling art (such as judo or jiu-jitsu) really requires training partners to work with.
Mr. Neal includes a _lot_ of references to his Christian faith on his site. His bio has 4  separate references to his church background before he lists his first martial arts qualification - and that first martial art qualification is in "Budo Karate for Christ." That isn't necessarily a problem, but it raises the possibility that his martial arts instruction might include a significant dose of proselytizing for his religious beliefs. Depending on your own religious inclinations, this might or might not be welcome.


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