# The Dark Knight Rises



## bluewaveschool (Jul 26, 2012)

Warning, SPOILERS contained within.




























The good - the honest realization that Bruce's body would simply break down over the years.  The bad knees, scars, possible brain damage... it's the truth of what the best outcome of being Batman would leave Bruce Wayne as.  
Showing that Bruce feels incomplete without Batman.  Bruce turns into a total recluse.  Nice touch with the Howard Hughes type rumors about it.  There was the extra touch of not only losing being the Batman, but believing that he lost any chance at happiness after Batman with Rachel dying.
Rachel - the picture of her was Katie Holmes, who is much hotter that Maggie G.
Bane - Completely believable as a serious threat to Batman.  A great take on the character, pretty much nailed him from the Knightfall storyline.
Catwoman - Anne Hathaway in that outfit.  Hot.
The ending.  The hints to all the characters that Bruce made it, and the scene with Alfred at the cafe.  

The bad
I know that there is no magic in Nolan's world, but I was REALLY hoping for the big reveal to be not just Talia, but Ra's al Ghul returned in the flesh.  Which would have meant using a Lazarus Pit from the comics (for those that don't know, Ra's using these pits to restore his youth), which Nolan wasn't going to put in his batworld.
Too many gadgets.
Catwoman - I wanted more of Anne Hathaway in that suit.  Spinoff plz.
The ending - John Blake's first name is Robin?  Boo.  He was a mix of some of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson's background, reveal that one of those names is the detective's real name.


Any other thoughts?


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 26, 2012)

Andy Moynihan nailed how I felt about Bane's voice and dialogue with the phrase, "Darth Connery."  Have to agree - didn't like it.  The fight scenes between Bane and Batman were not ... NOT ... believable as foes who trained with the League of Shadows. 

That said, with all the complaints on the script, the film left me with the feeling that the less-wordy graphic novels did ... that the eloquent language was done and this was a time of actions and choices.  Having lived long enough to actually see times that fit into that description, I was thus not disappointed at the script.

I may need to see it again, darnit.


----------



## WC_lun (Jul 26, 2012)

I enjoyed the movie.  In my opinion it gave a more human depth to Bruce Wayne.


----------



## SuperFLY (Jul 27, 2012)

it was a very good movie (bit predictable.. i knew she was talia from the 1st moment she came on screen) but not as good as dark knight.

hardy's bane couldnt outdo ledger joker, not by a long shot.

anne hathaway was a superb catwomen, absolutely nailed the character.. and looked incredible in that suit of course 

my biggest bad point about it was, it was a batman movie that barely had batman in. might as well have called it 'bruce wayne and some cop' rises.. it was more about the cop/robin than batman himself. not a lot of action for a 3rd instalment.. not that thats always a bad thing. often sequels just load up on action and forget the story, im glad they didnt do that but a bit more batman action would have been nice.

'breaking' his back was a nice touch though.. was a good 'homage' to the comics. did like it when he said 'i will break you'


----------



## Omar B (Jul 27, 2012)

I hate the living s### out off that movie.  Nolan says that's the ending he had in mind for Batman since the first film so he has ruined his whole series for me.  Right now I'm reading the novelization to see if there is any saving grace for it.

Characters acted totally out of the box.  Alfred leaving Bruce?  Bane not being Cuban?  Talia being given Bane's origin rather than being what she is ... a princess, heir to the League Of Shadows.  Talia getting killed (How's a dead person gonna give birth to Batman's son)?  

It's clear that they did read Frank Miller's The Dark Knight because at some parts they reigned in the crazy' and told a coherent story.  But really, Bruce doesn't ever give up, even when he was thought dead he himself had taken the orphans of Gotham to live with him in the caves below Wayne Manor and raise a new army to keep Gotham safe.

Taken simply as The Batman Of Earth 24 then it works.  But then that means that he is the shortest serving Batman as well as the only one who quit.  So still Batman of Earth 96 (Kingdom Come) is still the greatest.  He got old, cripple3d, his back really was gone and he was still in the fight.

BlueWaveSchool - The Lazarus Pit was in the movie, they just never called it that.  The jail was the pit and in climbing out a man is reborn.  I assume Ras is still alive (but somewhere in hiding), because an immortal being dead is as lame as Alfred leaving Bruce.


----------



## kitkatninja (Jul 27, 2012)

IMO, while the movie was very good, I was left a little disappointed.  I was expecting more...  

However Anne Hathaway...  WOW!


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 30, 2012)

Didn't really care for this movie.  Slow, predictable, disappointing plot.  As I've posted elsewhere, the first movie was Batman's movie, the second was the Joker's movie, and this one should have been Catwoman's movie.  The tension between Batman/Catwoman could have been played very smartly.  Instead, they gave us a standard "there's a bomb in the city, we'll kill everyone if you don't submit" story.  
It is good to know that if I screw up my knees so badly that I must walk with a cane, a simple brace will cure it.  Even if it is taken off me in prison.  It's also good to know that in hellhole prisons, there are doctors who can cure displaced vertebrae with a whack on the back and a rope.  
The ending was totally out of character.  Bruce wouldn't have just turned over the Batcave to the kid from _Third Rock from the Sun_ and just said "Good luck, hope you don't screw up and destroy yourself and Gotham.  I'm off to Europe with the hot babe".  He would have at least stayed until "Robin" was properly trained to fill his boots.  Miller's _Dark Knight Returns _ending would have at least been acceptable.
To tell the truth, I probably won't even buy this when it comes out on DVD.  This from the guy who went to see _The Avengers_ three times and _Dark Shadows_ twice.  JMHO


----------



## billc (Jul 30, 2012)

Spoilers discussed...




Yeah, the whole, fly the bomb to a safe distance and then pretend that the good guy died seems over used.  I think a decent ending would have had Bruce Wayne waiting at the Bat Cave as the "Robin" character came in saying something to the effect "are you ready to start..."   This I think would have been typical but at least a respectable way to end the film.  I was disappointed to find out that Batman stopped being batman at the end of the last movie.  At the end of that film I expected Gordon and Batman to have had a pretend chase as Batman continued to fight crime and Gordon pretended to apprehend him, that would have been an interesting thing to see on film.  As to Anne Hatheway, she was the best of the Cat women after Julie Newmar from the television show.  That isn't saying much, but she did do a better job than Pfiefer or Barry.

Alfred was a little too whiney for a former British special ops, turned mercenary turned Butler.  

An annoying scene for me was where Robin kills the two guys with his pistol and then looks at it in disgust and throws it away.  1st) without the pistol there was a better than good chance he would have been killed.  2nd) even if he was mad that by using the pistol he killed two guys he really wanted to question, it still save his life and is a pretty effective tool for crime fighting, just ask the Punisher.


----------



## SuperFLY (Jul 31, 2012)

billcihak said:


> An annoying scene for me was where Robin kills the two guys with his pistol and then looks at it in disgust and throws it away.  1st) without the pistol there was a better than good chance he would have been killed.  2nd) even if he was mad that by using the pistol he killed two guys he really wanted to question, it still save his life and is a pretty effective tool for crime fighting, just ask the Punisher.


think you missed the point of that.. batman doesn't kill people. 'robin'/blake was disgusted with himself for doing it. he aspired to 'be' batman, or at least like him and with that in mind killing, even if it is to save his own life, is something he'll hate himself for.

agreed with the other bits though. alfred's reaction was out of character for him and yeh.. would have loved it to have ended with wayne starting robins training  - but that was never going to happen. in nolans batman its over. done. finished. no robin, no batgirl, no nightwing.. nada.. nothing.. its just the nerd in me that would love to see the training start as it would basically mean there'd be a robin/nightwing movie.


----------



## Omar B (Jul 31, 2012)

I actually liked Blake's character.  Nolan repeatedly said he would never use "Robin" in his trilogy.  But he threw us a bone.  He's a cop like Dick Grayson was for a while.  His dad was a mobster who got murdered like Jason Todd and he on his own figured out who Bruce was like Tim Drake.  Also, all 3 of these Robins did at one point become Batman ... in the case of Dick most recently.


----------



## billc (Jul 31, 2012)

What I want to know, how does new Robin/batman afford all the great tech, pay for his food, clothing and shelter (I guess if you don't mind "living" in the bat cave, shelter is taken care of)? How does Robin get as good as Batman with no one to train him?


----------



## Omar B (Jul 31, 2012)

Because he's not Robin.  He's a character who has many trappings of Robin but he could have easily have been Jean Paul Valley.  It's not for us to ponder how this new Batman (because Bruce established that Batman is an idea) because that answer is not given in the novel or the movie.  The idea of him being a Legacy Character like Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash is what Nolan was getting at.  

It's just another crap part of Nolan's plan for Batman.  I swear, every time I think that Nolan says that's the ending he had in mind from he started I get angry.  

I would also point you guys to the GN Batman 100 by Paul Pope.  It's not within regular continuity (DC Earth 1 or 2) but tells the story of a Gotham where a young bike mechanic is Batman and we learn that it's a role that's taken up every now and then as needed like Zorro was.  In this story Bruce Wayne is mentioned as the 3rd.


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Aug 1, 2012)

billcihak said:


> An annoying scene for me was where Robin kills the two guys with his pistol and then looks at it in disgust and throws it away. 1st) without the pistol there was a better than good chance he would have been killed. 2nd) even if he was mad that by using the pistol he killed two guys he really wanted to question, it still save his life and is a pretty effective tool for crime fighting, just ask the Punisher.


And since when does a trained LEO just throw away his sidearm for anyone to find and use/misuse.  

I realize that this is the movie Batman and not the comics Batman, but as written in the comics, Bruce Wayne _is_ Batman.  He cannot stop being who he is, even though he might try to once in a while.
Of course, that may not be true of the New 52 Batman.  Maybe Bruce will retire to an ashram in India, contemplate his naval, and try to help the good people of Gotham by sending out good vibes.  Dude, that would be like, so edgy and extreme.  For sure.

That last bit was sarcasm, by the way.  Sometimes it's not clear when written rather than spoken.


----------



## bluewaveschool (Aug 1, 2012)

Green Arrow went and lived in an ashram, so that's been done already


----------



## Omar B (Aug 2, 2012)

Randy Strausbaugh said:


> And since when does a trained LEO just throw away his sidearm for anyone to find and use/misuse.
> I realize that this is the movie Batman and not the comics Batman, but as written in the comics, Bruce Wayne _is_ Batman.  He cannot stop being who he is, even though he might try to once in a while.
> Of course, that may not be true of the New 52 Batman.  Maybe Bruce will retire to an ashram in India, contemplate his naval, and try to help the good people of Gotham by sending out good vibes.  Dude, that would be like, so edgy and extreme.  For sure.
> That last bit was sarcasm, by the way.  Sometimes it's not clear when written rather than spoken.



You are coirrect.  Bruce cannot give up, it's not aparrt of him.  In The Dark Knight (the Frank Miller book that Nolan took most of his inspiration from) he gives up for years before returning to being Batman at 63.  In the end Gotham thinks him dead like the movie but he has really taken in all the orphans into the caves and started training his army.  So the movie does have some shades of that, him retiring, Wayne manor being given over to orphans... but not quite as it should.

As for Blake.  I mentioned earlier that he's got buts and peices of all 3 main Robins from the established Earth 2 Batman.  All 3 were Robin, all 3 posed as Batman for a while.  But then there is the even better option that they did not use.  Jean Paul Valley.  The character that played into THE Batman/Bane story, with the actual breaking of the bat.  Jean Paul was the one who took over for Bruce during those months.  It makes so much more sence to me to have used Jean Paul, because even if the movie ended with him we would have known that Bruce would come back and JP would move on to becoming his own persona.

Some pix of JP for those who were not reading Batman at the time -


----------



## Omar B (Aug 9, 2012)

Nolan doesn't "get" Batman.


----------



## punisher73 (Aug 9, 2012)

Omar B said:


> I hate the living s### out off that movie.  Nolan says that's the ending he had in mind for Batman since the first film so he has ruined his whole series for me.  Right now I'm reading the novelization to see if there is any saving grace for it.
> 
> Characters acted totally out of the box.  Alfred leaving Bruce?  Bane not being Cuban?  Talia being given Bane's origin rather than being what she is ... a princess, heir to the League Of Shadows.  Talia getting killed (How's a dead person gonna give birth to Batman's son)?



In the Knightfall storyline (or shortly after) Alfred DOES leave Bruce because he puts his life at risk while he is paralyzed and won't heal.  

I have the novelization by Dennis O'Neil and is one of my favorite books to reread about once a year.  It goes alot more into Batman's psyche and what motivates him.  I have told several people that I liked the movie, but you have to take it out of the context of the comic series.  It has to stand on it's own or it isn't good.


----------



## Omar B (Aug 9, 2012)

Dude, you have the Knightfall novel?  it's not even in print anymore, I don't even have it.  I have it in individual issues and the collected graphic novel.  I can only imagine how much more awsome it must be as a novel.

Also, another great story tieing in to this theme is No Man's Land where Ras actually does cause the fall of Gotham.


----------



## Omar B (Aug 9, 2012)

Here's a fun one.  Who can name all the members of Batman's extended family.

Here's the picture.


----------



## Randy Strausbaugh (Aug 11, 2012)

Couldn't get the picture to show. Ah, well...

All is not lost for Dark Knight fans. The animated version of Miller's "Dark Knight Returns" Part One comes out on disc on September 25. Same day as The Avengers.
The trailer looks good. "Old heroes never die... they just get darker!"


----------



## Omar B (Aug 13, 2012)

If it's a direct adaptation it'll be good.  It's gonna be done in 2 parts though.  Always imagined that Batman as being voiced by Michael Ironside.


----------



## punisher73 (Aug 14, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Dude, you have the Knightfall novel? it's not even in print anymore, I don't even have it. I have it in individual issues and the collected graphic novel. I can only imagine how much more awsome it must be as a novel.
> 
> Also, another great story tieing in to this theme is No Man's Land where Ras actually does cause the fall of Gotham.



NML was a great novel.  I might have to go reread that one too.  I have two copies of the Knightfall novel.  One was when it first came out (normal size paperback) and then at some point, B&N had a larger copy of the novel in paperback for $9 or so and I bought that one.  I also have the novel of Doomsday by Roger Stein (a GREAT read as well).


----------



## Omar B (Aug 14, 2012)

Oh, I got the paperback Doomsday with the Alex Ross painting on the cover.  

You got Wayne Of Gotham yet?  It's really good too.  Plus you get a lot of Wayne family history and Gotham history as a whole.  http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-Gotham-Novel-Tracy-Hickman/dp/0062074202


----------



## punisher73 (Aug 14, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Oh, I got the paperback Doomsday with the Alex Ross painting on the cover.
> 
> You got Wayne Of Gotham yet? It's really good too. Plus you get a lot of Wayne family history and Gotham history as a whole. http://www.amazon.com/Wayne-Gotham-Novel-Tracy-Hickman/dp/0062074202



that looks really good. gonna get it tonight and start it. thanks for the heads up


----------

