# Side kick



## Satelite (Jul 1, 2005)

What's with M.T. not using side kicks or back kicks. Other kick boxers do. I fough good M.T. boxers and scored with those kicks, only to be repreminded by coaches. Does any one have an idea?


----------



## OUMoose (Jul 1, 2005)

Satelite said:
			
		

> What's with M.T. not using side kicks or back kicks. Other kick boxers do. I fough good M.T. boxers and scored with those kicks, only to be repreminded by coaches. Does any one have an idea?


I can't say for all Muay Thai, but I can respond from personal experience.

Side kicks - Limiting weapons.  To throw a kick from the side, you have to turn your body for maximum extension.  This removes one arm from offense and defense, and also puts the body in an awkward position for follow-up strikes.

Back kicks - Limiting defense.  Perhaps it's just me, but I NEVER EVER want to turn my back on an opponent, especially when I know it's only going to be he and I in the ring.  At least at my school, you don't even see people really doing spinning moves (backfists and elbows) either.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Drag'n (Aug 2, 2005)

Yeah the MT stance is more squared to make shin blocks with the lead leg more efficient(amoung other things) So throwing a side kick or back kick is awkward.For the sidekick You have to rotate your stance sideways making you vulnerable to a low kick to your lead leg.For the back kick you have to step your lead leg across your front to make a fast turn possible but the step tellegraphs your intentions.If you can cover the changes in stance within your foot work they are doable.But good fighters have good eyes and will usually see a back kick comming.
Still I like to use back kicks occasionally for a surprise and if you connect with a good one it really feels good. I guess thats just my TKD background showing through


----------



## Kenpo_man (Aug 5, 2005)

After I started training in Muay Thai I started using my side kick a lot less than before because they are hard to follow up with combinations and a missed one is easy to counter. I do use them occasionally and they do land when set up properly. It's such a hard kick that I don't understand why you would be reprimanded for using it, especially when you say you landed it. If a technique works, how can it be wrong?


----------



## injunwil (Dec 11, 2005)

hey all , new here, cool site.

we use back kicks where i train :idunno:


----------



## arnisador (Dec 11, 2005)

injunwil said:
			
		

> hey all , new here, cool site.



Welcome to the site!


----------



## terryl965 (Dec 11, 2005)

injunwil said:
			
		

> hey all , new here, cool site.
> 
> we use back kicks where i train :idunno:


 
 Well let me welcome you here and you should post in the Meet and geet section
Terry


----------



## Andrew Green (Dec 11, 2005)

injunwil said:
			
		

> hey all , new here, cool site.
> 
> we use back kicks where i train :idunno:



Welcome!

Anyways, you'll see back kicks occasionally, but side kicks can get you in to more trouble then they are worth.  If the guy slips to the outside he'll end up behind you really easily.  They are also a fair bit easier to see comming then a front kick and don't pack too much more of a punch.

Risk to reward just don't make them worth it for the most part.


----------



## terryl965 (Dec 11, 2005)

All I know is the sidekick is a valuble kick in TKD, with that being said it would be almost worthless in a kickboxing match or a MMA match for that matter. 
Terry


----------



## Andrew Green (Dec 11, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> All I know is the sidekick is a valuble kick in TKD, with that being said it would be almost worthless in a kickboxing match or a MMA match for that matter.
> Terry



Yup, different tools in different rules.

Fine kick, just not well suited to Muay Thai or MMA.


----------



## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 12, 2005)

injunwil said:
			
		

> hey all , new here, cool site.
> 
> we use back kicks where i train :idunno:


 
I use both side kicks and back kicks, although, not often. They're not really trained in modern Muay Thai, primarily because they are not used much in the ring. But there are plenty of circumstances, under which, side kicks and back kicks are useful, because you can get them up close to your body. I use them, and train their use, as having the same purpose as push kicks, but when your body is not squared-off to teep or push. I hope that makes sense. The are there, regardless of whether or not a particular gym trains them; and MMA effects Muay Thai training in the states a lot more than I believe is appropriate.


----------



## Giorgio (Sep 7, 2006)

i see what you mean when you say that side kicks are not as effective under MT rules, but what about general efficiency in self-defense situations? would you still opt for a tiip front kick of a roundhouse instead of a side kick? Or can you see a situation where side kicks are effective? I ask because i'm deciding whether i should train using side kicks, or if i should just use the time to make my thai kicks better.


----------



## Jimi (Sep 7, 2006)

I have seen that some Muay Thai trainers such as Master K teach a side kick, but it is not the same as a Karate/TKD side kick. I have seen Master Ks students and Master K himself do what they call a side kick, and it is much more like a teep but a little off line, no-where near the same hip alignment/commitment that a TKD side kick has. I think a side kick is a good self defense weapon outside of the Muay Thai ring, but I would use a lot less pivot/hip rotation unless I had the opponent stunned or in the right position to land a fully committed power side kick a la Enter The Dragon (LOL). A step behind side kick will telegraph so much to a Muay Thai fighter that they can take it off the telegraph line and decipher the morris code and realise, oh the side kick is coming. A sharp quick side kick like a snapping side kick will have a little better chance of landing due to less telegraphing and less hip commitment. Maybe the coach repremanded you for the use of the side kick even though it landed because it may have left you open to a serious cut kick or other support leg destruction that your partner did or would not put on you. I am not criticising your side kick, just mentioning the things I have seen in Bama Lethwei and Muay Thai. As for a back kick, my coach would say, "Why the hell are you considering a back kick in the ring? If your opponent is behind you, you realy F'd up!" Although I can see it having use in the street because you may have more than one opponent and you may be approached from the rear before addressing the threat. JMO. PEACE JIMI


----------



## BBaylis1 (Sep 7, 2006)

in the school i used to train at we used back kicks but we called them "oh ****" kicks...we were only taught to use these kicks if we got turned around and our opponent had our back...most of the time it was when we went for a powerful leg kick, missed and got spun completely around... I can see where you are coming from with scoring alot of sidekicks...i currently spar with a TKD guy like yourself (i looked in your profile) and the kicks he usually landed were sidekicks...thats probably just from my inexperience as a MT fighter...


----------



## zDom (Sep 7, 2006)

A poor sidekick is worse than worthless -- it makes you vulnerable.

A GOOD sidekick can really ruin your opponents day.

A great sidekick (which includes having perfect timing), in a full-contact match can end the match.


----------



## hwarangdo-adam (Sep 7, 2006)

i love me some side kicks


----------



## tradrockrat (Sep 7, 2006)

With respects to both Jimi and Zdom - I never really trained the side kick for full contact for all the reasons mentioned, but I learned while competing in middle style tournaments (2 minute continuous contact point sparring) the very real value in a good, traditional side kick.  After that, every once in a while I would uncork one in a kickboxing match.  I found them to be quite effective when used as a surprise tactic, but they rarely worked twice (the good news is most times I didn't need it twice...  )  In the ring i would also use it defensively in the style Jimi mentioned by attacking the underside of an opponents kicking leg - it wasn't technically legal, but most refs just thought I was screwing up a kick....


Out of the ring, I used a crossing side kick once in a hallway and it worked reeeaaallllyyyyy well.


----------



## Jimi (Sep 7, 2006)

Oh yeah Tradrockrat, Been on the recieving end of one of those low kicks to the inner thigh before. During instruction, you know my JKD Instructor, would be like "Jimi, Come here and throw a rear leg round kick" And I'd say "Hell No!" He would look at me funny and say "What did you say Jimi?" And I'd say "Uh, Hell No! Sir!". "That's better!" He'd say "GET OVER HERE!" And we would all laugh, except I'd cry a little inside. LMAO! PEACE


----------



## tradrockrat (Sep 9, 2006)

Jimi said:


> Oh yeah Tradrockrat, Been on the recieving end of one of those low kicks to the inner thigh before. During instruction, you know my JKD Instructor, would be like "Jimi, Come here and throw a rear leg round kick" And I'd say "Hell No!" He would look at me funny and say "What did you say Jimi?" And I'd say "Uh, Hell No! Sir!". "That's better!" He'd say "GET OVER HERE!" And we would all laugh, except I'd cry a little inside. LMAO! PEACE



Who do you think taught me the technique? LOL


----------



## Thunder Foot (Sep 9, 2006)

Jimi said:


> I have seen that some Muay Thai trainers such as Master K teach a side kick, but it is not the same as a Karate/TKD side kick. I have seen Master Ks students and Master K himself do what they call a side kick, and it is much more like a teep but a little off line, no-where near the same hip alignment/commitment that a TKD side kick has..... Maybe the coach repremanded you for the use of the side kick even though it landed because it may have left you open to a serious cut kick or other support leg destruction that your partner did or would not put on you. I am not criticising your side kick, just mentioning the things I have seen in Bama Lethwei and Muay Thai.  JMO. PEACE JIMI


I agree with this. Although I have seen some non-traditional Muay Thai fighters use a hybrid teep, where the hip is slightly turned... the kick is hard to use in combination or with footwork. Prior to Muay Thai, I studied Taekwondo. And while TKD has a strong emphasis on the kick, in a Muay Thai match I would much rather prefer the teep.

A good example of this kick though, would be Samart Payakaroon. If you watch some of his youtube fights, you can see he primarily uses it to keep his opponent off. Other than that, I don't see much use for it.


----------

