# How 'bout a board on Spirituality?



## lost_tortoise (Apr 21, 2003)

I was wondering what everyone thought about a board dealing with spirituality.  I, for one, would like to hear more from the FMA people about Anting Anting and other disciplines within that realm.  I was thinking that the board could run the gambit from Chi development to how your own belief system or religion relates to or influences your martial art.  Come on, I know most of you have something to contribute to this thing!  I have already brought this up to Kaith and I think the concensus was to float this by you and see what everyone thinks.  I even volunteered to moderate the thing as long as the job wasn't a real time hog (job and family, ya know.)

Thanks for your time and consideration,

geoffrey


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## cdhall (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lost_tortoise _
> *...to how your own belief system or religion relates to or influences your martial art...*



Curiously I just got my Black Belt Thesis approved on Thursday and it will deal with Christianity and Kenpo and I will be reworking some techniques to be less deadly.

Funny you bring this up now. I'm also interested in the Chi stuff so I am interested in this topic.
:asian:

PS And I was born in Kentucky.  How funny.  I'll send you a PM.


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## chufeng (Apr 21, 2003)

Interesting idea...

I can see where it might lead....:flame: 

But, the "God" thread seemed to do pretty well.
What kind of parameters would you put on it?

I see spirituality as a realization of one's true nature and HOW that interconnects with all things...

I do not think one needs to be religious to express spirituality...
Likewise, many "religious" people are so bound by dogma, that they view spirituality as, somehow, satanic.
(For instance, the guy who refuses to bow before a martial arts match...and that doesn't even have anything to do with spirituality)

Further, many of those who became apostles in what eventually became Christianity were neither spiritual, nor religious...go figure.

There are many different religions represented on this board:
Christians,
Wiccans,
Agnostics,
Atheists,
Buddhists...
others???

A discussion of spirituality, hopefully will put many of those folks on common ground, and similarities between and among the religions may become apparent...hopefully, we can avoid the "mine is the only TRUTH..." mentality, if this idea comes to fruition.

:asian:
chufeng


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## Matt Stone (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *Interesting idea...
> 
> I can see where it might lead....:flame: *



Ya think?  Nah!  A forum for spiritual stuff drawing fire from flamers?  Never happen...   



> *I do not think one needs to be religious to express spirituality...
> 
> Likewise, many "religious" people are so bound by dogma, that they view spirituality as, somehow, satanic.
> (For instance, the guy who refuses to bow before a martial arts match...and that doesn't even have anything to do with spirituality)
> ...



I agree totally.  Spiritual people pursue spiritual things.  Religious people pursue form and tradition, but may well be devoid of spirituality entirely.  A spiritual person by necessity is religious.  A religious person is not necessarily spiritual or spiritually oriented...



> *There are many different religions represented on this board:
> Christians,
> Wiccans,
> Agnostics,
> ...



Let's not forget the neo-pagans and Gnostics...  



> *A discussion of spirituality, hopefully will put many of those folks on common ground, and similarities between and among the religions may become apparent...hopefully, we can avoid the "mine is the only TRUTH..." mentality, if this idea comes to fruition.
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng *



That'd be nice...

I learned tons about my Christian beliefs by having a Muslim friend.  I learned tons about Islam from him as well, which has really helped me to grow and help others to shed their ignorances and predjudices regarding that much maligned religion.

While to some degree I believe there is only One Truth, I don't believe anyone necessarily has a monopoly on what that One Truth may really be.  From reading the Nag Hammadi scrolls, there is a much different picture of Jesus presented there, described by those who knew him personally, than is commonly understood in mainstream Christianity.  The archaeologically relevant discoveries from Biblical history are presenting a factually based image of Biblical history that is much more accurate than many critics of Christianity would admit.

It'd be nice for folks to be able to discuss their beliefs sans the passion of zealots, to open their minds to perspectives and ideas rather than battening down their spiritual hatches to hold firm to the beliefs they were indoctrinated with as they grew up.  I know that, due to the lack of pressure to believe in any religious dogma as I grew up, my beliefs are those that I truly believe to be true, rather than simply "I was taught," or "I grew up believing..."  As adults we have the luxury of choice, and that choice must be based on evidence of some sort rather than blind acceptance of family traditions.

Just my 2 yen, though.  For all I know, I'm 100% totally incorrect...

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


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## lost_tortoise (Apr 21, 2003)

Similar rules would apply to this board as they do to the others: courtesy, respect etc.  I would hope that dogma and doctrine would not irrevocably harm this board any more than it does the others.  Also, I don't expect discussions about specific religions to be as much the focus as the spiritual manifestations of a specific system of martial art.  I would like to keep it fairly hoplologically centered, but there should be a little room for lateral exploration.

My god, did that load of ballyhoo just spew from my fingers?!?  UGH!


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## Matt Stone (Apr 21, 2003)

You're from Kentucky and you said *ballyhoo*?

Wow.

While the hoplological relation of spirituality has some bearing on some systems, you will inevitably encounter the non-spiritually oriented art or artist who will attack others for believing such things have a place in "modern" MA practice.

Many arts would not be as effective, historically, as they were _without_ their spiritual sides, but that fact is lost on some.

Good luck.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 21, 2003)

This could be a great area for disscussion.
 I lost one of my best friends in the martial arts, because he got "religion".  He could not practice the violence and distruction he had learned  nor could he find it in his hart  to put others through what he had been subjected to in order to learn.  I say this statement wiht the deepest loss in my hart but rejoyce that he found what he was searching for.  This happened over 20 years ago and he still holds to his belives and may even have a deeper conviction today.  
 We all may put part of our spiritual side into what we do for what we do is truly a reflection of what we belive.  
  I hope we can have an intellegent giveing and passing ofinformation in this area without getting into any stupid  and nonproductive areas.


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## lost_tortoise (Apr 21, 2003)

Not *from*  Kentucky, *reside in* Kentucky.

You two aren't helpin' the cause much (the cause being convincing the powers-that-be that there is a place for this board.  Help me out here folks!

The negative responses are inevitable, but they have been seen on all the boards and hopefully no more so if this idea is realized.

If y'all (see yili, I have the vernacular down pat) think that aspect of the board will be too controversial, perhaps we can keep it within the realm of cultural spiritual disciplines in the martial arts (Anting anting or Islamic martial traditions, for example.)

~geoffrey~


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## Matt Stone (Apr 21, 2003)

The idea that God (whatever term or name a person may have for him/her) would rather you stand firm and be killed rather than lift a hand in your own defense is weak at best and absurd in its entirety.

There is never an art that is so lethal that its methods cannot be scaled down to be appropriate for the level of conflict at hand...  I don't care how deadly a person thinks him/herself to be, when a drunk bumps into your shoulder in the local night spot, you don't have to ninja kick his head clean off his shoulders.  That is crap, and we all know it.

The amount of force applied to resolve a situation is equal to the level of danger inherent in the encounter.  Drunk shoves you, shove back.  Mugger stabs at you, break an arm.  You know you are going to be killed no matter what, sell your life for the highest price possible and take out as many of them as you can before you expire.

I doubt that the Creator, the Grand Architect of the Universe, wants us to waltz about playing god ourselves and kill off that which he created (won't even go into the environmental issues that that touches on), but at the same time, I doubt He wants us to waste our lives by being passive sheep for wolves to feed upon.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


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## Matt Stone (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lost_tortoise _
> *Not from  Kentucky, reside in Kentucky.*



Thanks for the clarification!    Makes a BIG difference.  



> *You two aren't helpin' the cause much (the cause being convincing the powers-that-be that there is a place for this board.  Help me out here folks!*



I think it would be a great forum, personally, with plenty of potential for such a board.  This is, after all, a moderated community, and should some folks find their inability to maintain appropriate decorum getting the better of them, they could be banned from that forum entirely, rather than the board at large.  Easy answer for an easy problem.



> *If y'all (see yili, I have the vernacular down pat) think that aspect of the board will be too controversial, perhaps we can keep it within the realm of cultural spiritual disciplines in the martial arts (Anting anting or Islamic martial traditions, for example.)*



I've never been one to back away from an unpopular or controversial topic.  Bring it on!!!

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:


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## arnisador (Apr 21, 2003)

Would it be better to consider a more general Philosophy and Spirituality forum?


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## Zepp (Apr 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Would it be better to consider a more general Philosophy and Spirituality forum? *



That sounds like it could work.
I do forsee a potential problem besides the inevitable flamefests.  Everyone could be so worried about starting a flame war that they're always walking on eggshells in that forum instead of discussing the real heart of a matter.


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## chufeng (Apr 21, 2003)

I'm willing to put my ***** on the line, anyday...

chufeng


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## chufeng (Apr 21, 2003)

E-e-r-gh-egh !!!!!



> A spiritual person by necessity is religious



You see? This is where the tangle begins...even with the most simple of concepts...

I do think that a religious person can be spiritual...
I think a spiritual person can be religious...
I think a spiritual person may shun religion...
...and I think a religious person may follow dogma rather than his spirit...

But to say a spiritual person by necessity is religious is ignoring another possibility...I, personally, shun religion (organized religion) because I've been god-phouched one too many times by the organization...

I pursue a simpler path, now...a Zen path...and it is a Christian path, but NOT religious in the sense of any organization...
It is a contemplative path...and it works for me...and I don't begrudge those who would follow similar, or different, paths.

The radical Muslim is a violent person, lashing out at the infidels...

I view him as one who has strayec from the path.

The radical Christian, who would judge everyone based on his core beliefs...choosing whether or not that person is a good and just person may be less violent, physically, but the hatred of those they feel are not worthy runs as deep...(and if it is pity they feel; it is based on spiritual pride...a belief that they, somehow, are better)

Neither are spiritual people...

Look at my original definition above; based on that definition, one who knows his connection to others could neither judge, nor attack another...

:asian:
chufeng


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## yilisifu (Apr 22, 2003)

I think we'd better set up a forum or it'll start right here!


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## Jill666 (Apr 22, 2003)

I suggest you read the famous "God" thread, THEN decide if the mod job is truly for you. If you can actually get through all the verbiage, then you may be the man!

As for whether there is readership, there is one way to find out. I'm not very likely to contribute, but then again I suppose anything is possible. :shrug: For example, I am moderately curious as to what the hell "anting anting" is.


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## pesilat (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *For example, I am moderately curious as to what the hell "anting anting" is. *



http://www.bakbakan.com/anting.html

http://onmyoshi.freeservers.com/anting.html

http://library.thinkquest.org/27661/docs/anting2.htm

Mike


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## Jill666 (Apr 22, 2003)

Ah! Thank you- see, now I know something I didn't before. 

Perhaps this is a good idea. :mst:


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## arnisador (Apr 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *I think we'd better set up a forum or it'll start right here! *



Heh, I think this is right on the mark!


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 22, 2003)

Forum created, now....go hash out a charter. 

and....keep it polite...I know these topics can get hot sometimes, but, agree to disagree, and keep it polite.
Thanks!

:asian:


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## arnisador (Jun 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Forum created, now....go hash out a charter. *



We still need a description for this forum! Please, start a new thread to discuss one.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## arnisador (Dec 26, 2003)

Any thoughts on a description?

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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