# Kids these days... Question for instructors.



## MikeBielat (Dec 5, 2012)

I tried finding a proper thread for this to go into but couldn't find one so please forgive me if this is in the wrong place.

I am back into Isshin-Ryu karate after 7-8 year hiatus. Still know my forms, still can defend myself. Just out of shape and rusty around the edges. I'm training as hard as I can to remove that rust. Now before I stopped, I was an instructor at my dojo for a good 4 years. I am now back to the same dojo and assisting as much as I can until I get back into the swing of things and memorize the student's curriculum and whatnot.

Yesterday, I was helping out at our Junior Black Belt classes (children have watered down curriculum at our dojo requiring a jr. black belt system where they learn what the adults know). Now this class had 5-6 students. We spent the whole day on form. One or two kids has their stuff locked down while the others were just way out in left field. Their stances were for the birds and they barely even knew their forms. 

I started this thread because I want to get some feedback on how to ramp these kids up. It is never too late to learn things the right way or improve on one's technique. What is done is done and I cannot strip them of their belts obviously lol. I just want to get them on par and giving it their all. I don't want to write these kids off but we need to change things up a bit so that these kids moving up the ranks learn the right way from the start as well.

Do you instructors have any feedback that you can share on what you do to keep your students interested and being the best they can? Any fun ways to pass the knowledge down while keeping the kids interest?

Karate is just as much an outward thing as it is inward and should be altering these kid's sense of self-pride in what they do. They should "want" to be the best without us having to enforce that as much as I feel we are doing. Karate has made me more self-driven, self-disciplined and self-motivated to be the best that I can but I took things seriously. Any feedback would be much appreciated.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 5, 2012)

MikeBielat said:


> Do you instructors have any feedback that you can share on what you do to keep your students interested and being the best they can? Any fun ways to pass the knowledge down while keeping the kids interest?



Show them trophies on the wall, show them kids winning trophies at local tournaments, and explain that they can win trophies too if they can do kata like the kids in the videos who are going and winning.  It has been my vary limited experience that they light up at the idea of doing a kata and getting a big trophy for it, and if the price is hard work and better kata, then OK.


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## Tez3 (Dec 5, 2012)

Do they know why they are learning kata or is it to them just something they have to learn to grade and tick off as having learnt? Children can be very good at working hard if they know why they are doing something, they like learning if they can see a purpose behind it ( I guess that goes for adults as well really bit obvious I suppose lol) Enthusiastic instructors tend to make enthusiatic kids.


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## MikeBielat (Dec 5, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Show them trophies on the wall, show them kids winning trophies at local tournaments, and explain that they can win trophies too if they can do kata like the kids in the videos who are going and winning.  It has been my vary limited experience that they light up at the idea of doing a kata and getting a big trophy for it, and if the price is hard work and better kata, then OK.



Totally forgot about tournaments Bill! Back in the day we had a group of students and a couple instructors make their rounds at the local tournaments and even did some out of town ones... I will ask the owner if they still have something like that going on. GREAT IDEA!

We do have a "demo team" who I have just been assigned to helping run (ran it before when I was an instructor there). They do some charity things or show up at an event or fair and get the school's name out in the community. Kids used to have to try out for that...

We also had a student of the month thing where one student in each belt level was given a red, white and blue belt to wear for that month. This was all done in the middle of class for all to see.


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## Aiki Lee (Dec 5, 2012)

We tell are kids to pretend they are in an action movie. We go "action" and they all try to snap into proper kamae and are more focused than when we don't do it. It's silly, but it seems to have a positive effect in the dojo.


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## MikeBielat (Dec 5, 2012)

Himura Kenshin said:


> We tell are kids to pretend they are in an action movie. We go "action" and they all try to snap into proper kamae and are more focused than when we don't do it. It's silly, but it seems to have a positive effect in the dojo.



I love this idea and it helps bring back some memories of what we used to do...  If we had an advanced class after a beginner one, we would have some kids demo a kata for the beginners. That always got them 110%. The problem now is I am not sure if it would yield the same results since their forms aren't something that I trust they know. Could backfire.


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## MikeBielat (Dec 5, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Do they know why they are learning kata or is it to them just something they have to learn to grade and tick off as having learnt? Children can be very good at working hard if they know why they are doing something, they like learning if they can see a purpose behind it ( I guess that goes for adults as well really bit obvious I suppose lol) Enthusiastic instructors tend to make enthusiatic kids.



When teaching katas I personally would go over moves here and there which demonstrate why a move is being done and what self-defense application it could be used for (bunkai). I would also make up rhymes and whatnot to help them memorize the form... It was a lot of verbal communication while doing the moves and kept kids focused and involved. Thanks for the tip.


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## Tez3 (Dec 5, 2012)

Sometimes what is going on at school affects how the children train, at the moment it's coming up to Christmas so there's a lot of stuff at school like the Christmas plays, carol services etc so they get really tired. With our children it's that the fathers are away so it's a tense time for everyone, we do get a lot of children either in their own world or playing up. When things get to a head which they do every so often a couple of our MMA fighters come in and 'fight' the kids who get to let off a lot of frustration and worry then get to boast they 'beat up a cage fighter'. The fighters don't mind because it's really good training for them lol, sometimes the kids go really hard on them which they wouldn't normally do if they weren't upset, so many keep their worries in because they don't want to upset mum. It's a good release for them so they can get back to practicing properly, we keep in touch with the schools who are also trained to cope with the children's fears and worries. We try as well to have a session where they work really hard and we video it to send to dads. 
I'd say a bit of letting off steam is always good.


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## Grenadier (Dec 5, 2012)

It sounds like the kids who are lagging behind, need some sharpening of their fundamental techniques.  If the basic techniques are weak, then it doesn't matter what they try to practice, whether it's  kata or kumite; the  kata or kumite will also be weak.  

Your whole junior black belt group (both the leaders and the laggers) can benefit from intense basic training, where you only focus on one or two things at a time, getting them to perfect something (as well as they can) before moving onto the next part.   Since they are kids, you may have to modify things a bit, to make it more entertaining.  For example, after they've practiced a particular block many times over, you can demonstrate how using certain blocks in different ways, can become throws, locks, etc.,  and  even let them try applying it in such a manner, provided that it reinforces the proper use of good fundamental technique.  

Keep hammering away at their fundamental techniques.  If you do this, you'll see that their kata and kumite will significantly improve.


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## MikeBielat (Dec 6, 2012)

That's what I am hoping for! I think there is a reason why I was asked to help out as soon as I came back, probably because there has been something missing since I left...


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## Tez3 (Dec 6, 2012)

MikeBielat said:


> That's what I am hoping for! I think there is a reason why I was asked to help out as soon as I came back, probably because there has been something missing since I left...




You'll have to be tactful!


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## punisher73 (Dec 6, 2012)

My wife is a great motivator with kids.  Usually, she will show something and then after the kids practice it a couple of times asks them who wants to show off "x".  The kids always volunteer and work hard to be able to "show off" what they know.  With kids, they need immediate feedback and motivation.  Sometimes the idea of a belt or trophy is too far out for them to motivate.  It is one reason that (even for adults) more and more belt ranks were added in some styles, it gave motivation to keep working for the next goal.  

If you go from white belt to black belt in 5-7 years, people can get discouraged that they aren't getting better if there isn't some kind of bench mark.   Come up with something that rewards them for the hardwork then and there, and hard work through the week for practicing.


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## Danny T (Dec 7, 2012)

With Kids;
1. It has to be Entertaining for them not for you.
2. It has to be Exciting for them not for you.
3. It has to be FUN for them not for you. 
4. Get really pumped up with them when they do it properly.
5. Kids will do what you do. When you do Kata make certain you do it properly and make it Fun! Ask them what 'You' could do to make your kata better.
6. Let them be the Judge. Have one perform and the others watch and judge. Each states 1 thing to make the performance better and 1 thing they did well.

Make it Entertaining, make it Exciting, make it Fun and you got them. Kids will work hard at something they have fun with and even more so if they are excited about doing it.


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## arnisador (Dec 7, 2012)

With FMA we've found that a "fun" activity at the end--getting to gang up on the instructor with foam sticks--can help get them through until then. But I think you mean older kids than that. Lots of positive feedback, changing activities fairly often, and the odd joke from TV shows they watch--find out!


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## Victor Smith (Dec 9, 2012)

Well, I've been trainiing youth continiously since 1978.

While my standards are unchanged (it takes about 7-9 uears) to make black belt (adult) as I don't let them train full time, and I keep adding material - 15 kata at that point. The average time they train is 2 or 3 years. We just use karate training.  Most youth learn that they can progress through their efforts. That is the most important lesson.

As for the karate, well thse who get to full black belt, by then they're adults. They have graduated school and move away to get on with their lives, not remain in the area. 

Such is life and most important.


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## MikeBielat (Dec 9, 2012)

Danny T said:


> With Kids;
> 1. It has to be Entertaining for them not for you.
> 2. It has to be Exciting for them not for you.
> 3. It has to be FUN for them not for you.
> ...



Love the ideas. Cant wait for my first class that I can run. Keep them coming!


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## Black Belt Jedi (Dec 27, 2012)

What really helps kids get motivated, is to show them your trophies and medals you won at tournaments. That's what I do on occasions. 

When teaching little kids, keep in mind that they can focus on training Karate for 15-25 minutes. So if you are teaching kids for 60 minutes, it's best to start off with a game for them to play. Playing games for kids helps with their hand/eye coordination and flexibility and agility. Then put them through a warm-up stretch. Then teach them a Karate lesson for the evening such as self-defense, kihon/kata, bag work etc. Then end class with a game (if necessary). That's the routine I do, and I have many great classes with them. I even got quite a few compliments from parents saying that I am good with kids.

Here is an article called The Practical Karate Kid Teaching Guide. I find this article helpful in teaching age groups, since I teach students on all age groups, which is a very big responsibility for me. 
http://www.karatebyjesse.com/karate-kid-teaching-guide/


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## MikeBielat (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. We do have a wall of 5 and 6 foot trophies won from tournaments which kids are always staring at. I am not sure if we are doing local tournaments at our dojo. I thought it may be nice to get some cheap-ish medals and do a tournament for just our school.  Have all the kids who want to do it participate and give out medals to the winners. 
When I went to school as a teacher we were told that children's attention span is about the same as their age. We're always changing stuff up on them. 

We do 10 min of stretches and push-ups, etc... Class is about 20-30 minutes with the last couple set aside of a game or whatnot. 


Our kid classes are


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## tayl0124 (Feb 21, 2013)

We have some of the same issues in our dojo.  I would ask you this.  Does the watering down of your karate for kids effect the way they do karate when they get older?  Would it be more advantageous to teach them the same as the adults( with less focus, speed and contact, perhaps that is all you are doing now)?  However I think our biggest issue is that some kids are there because their parents want them to be there.  We have 3 brothers ages 10 - 14 that have been in the dojo for about 3 years.  All of them have had their moments of greatness and moments where it seems like it is painful for them to be in class.  If they don't want to be there, but their parents are making them go, I don't know what you can do to change their minds.  We also can only hope that they come around.  Just out of curiosity,  how old are the kids in the junior black belt program you are speaking of?


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## chinto (Feb 21, 2013)

I like to show something of the bunkai of a kata, and then demand they work hard. They seem to do better once they see that it has reverence to fighting and is not just something for testing.  If they are working hard we move on to a different kata  and then back to that one to see if it stayed better.  I complement improvement and effort. and demand work, and use a little humor too.  ( they love the old parody of the kunfu theater...( moth moving after talking stops) "my kungfu is better then yours!" and then say 'the kata shows it.'   I also show them how they are doing it, then do it right with kimei and good stance and ask them who would you rather fight?  you would be amazed at how they work hard to get it... and of course they know competition rewards those who work hard. ( I my self do not do tournaments but many in the dojo do.)


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## Curlykarateka (Mar 8, 2013)

as a "kid these days" I think my advice here could be helpful. Well, you could get them to teach each other, maybe not useful in this particular scenario but teaching lower grades how to perform kata/bunkai is not only a fantastic way to cement your understanding but also to improve your confidence, it works for me. I think focusing on an individual and talking them through the form one by one is a good way for me to learn too. Unfortunately, as mentioned above you won't keep many of those pupils, I know I'll leave for uni in a few years, likely never to return, so as the first instructor it's important to get them really interested, so we keep it up afterwards.


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## MikeBielat (Jul 22, 2013)

tayl0124 said:


> We have some of the same issues in our dojo.  I would ask you this.  Does the watering down of your karate for kids effect the way they do karate when they get older?  Would it be more advantageous to teach them the same as the adults( with less focus, speed and contact, perhaps that is all you are doing now)?  However I think our biggest issue is that some kids are there because their parents want them to be there.  We have 3 brothers ages 10 - 14 that have been in the dojo for about 3 years.  All of them have had their moments of greatness and moments where it seems like it is painful for them to be in class.  If they don't want to be there, but their parents are making them go, I don't know what you can do to change their minds.  We also can only hope that they come around.  Just out of curiosity,  how old are the kids in the junior black belt program you are speaking of?



Sorry for the delayed response. Recently had our third baby back in March and I haven't had as much time (or energy) to hang out on the forums.

We have jr. black belts who are anywhere from 8-14(ish). When a child gets to those teen years then our master decides whether or not to put them into the adult program. So the kids (with a watered down curriculum) have to catch up to the adults so they keep whatever belt they have now for a long, long time until they are up to par.


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## JonWal (Jul 24, 2013)

MikeBielat said:


> Sorry for the delayed response. Recently had our third baby back in March and I haven't had as much time (or energy) to hang out on the forums.
> 
> We have jr. black belts who are anywhere from 8-14(ish). When a child gets to those teen years then our master decides whether or not to put them into the adult program. So the kids (with a watered down curriculum) have to catch up to the adults so they keep whatever belt they have now for a long, long time until they are up to par.



I see it with several of the younger kids in our dojo. You can tell the ones that want to be there and trying hard and likewise you can see the ones that are walking through the kihon and kata as if learning a new dance. Poor stance, poor application of technique and no interest in improving. 

As only a student its not my responsibility, although if there was something I could do to change their mindset I would certainly do it as their actions reflect on us students and potential students in the future.


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## Cho, Yeonsoo (Oct 2, 2014)

MikeBielat said:


> I tried finding a proper thread for this to go into but couldn't find one so please forgive me if this is in the wrong place.
> 
> I am back into Isshin-Ryu karate after 7-8 year hiatus. Still know my forms, still can defend myself. Just out of shape and rusty around the edges. I'm training as hard as I can to remove that rust. Now before I stopped, I was an instructor at my dojo for a good 4 years. I am now back to the same dojo and assisting as much as I can until I get back into the swing of things and memorize the student's curriculum and whatnot.
> 
> ...



I only assist, but my instructor has a good system (TKD) he get's all the students that performed well to sit, then, he gets the not quite acceptable students to stand, then, he will request for them to do it again, one by one, makes them concentrate more. shows them embarrassment. It's how I straightened out and it seems to work most of the time. I mean, who wants to be publicly embarrassed?


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## K-man (Oct 2, 2014)

Cho said:


> I only assist, but my instructor has a good system (TKD) he get's all the students that performed well to sit, then, he gets the not quite acceptable students to stand, then, he will request for them to do it again, one by one, makes them concentrate more. shows them embarrassment. It's how I straightened out and it seems to work most of the time. I mean, who wants to be publicly embarrassed?


Nobody likes to be embarrassed in front of their peers, but I think it is a really bad policy. People learn at different rates and in different ways. You may have picked up your game when put out in front of the class but I would suggest that a fair number of students would actually be inclined to give up.
:asian:


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## Cho, Yeonsoo (Oct 2, 2014)

K-man said:


> Nobody likes to be embarrassed in front of their peers, but I think it is a really bad policy. People learn at different rates and in different ways. You may have picked up your game when put out in front of the class but I would suggest that a fair number of students would actually be inclined to give up.
> :asian:


didn't think of that... but the thing is, my instructor will only use this method for students who are not prepared to go to grading when the time comes... I will have to come up with a different method when I one on one the slower kids... :disgust:


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## Badger1777 (Oct 3, 2014)

Sorry, I can't advise from an instructors point of view because I've never been one, but I once was a kid at a karate school, so I can tell you what made me work hard.

Our school tended to deviate a bit from the standard pattern of bow in, warm up, stretch, regimentally stomp up and down in unison performing the same kick/punch, sparring, warm down, bow out. We did all those things, but lots of other stuff was mixed in. One of my personal favourites (and the rest of the class as far as I could tell) was the 'last man standing kumite'. Basically, after a bit of sparring, we'd have a brief free for all. Then after a few minutes the instructors would pick out a few people at random. Those few would then have to fight one of those that weren't picked. Winner (2 points for win) stays on. The instructors never decided who was the overall winner, that's was for us to decide. Was it the person left when we ran out of time? Or was it the person that defeated the most opponents overall? Perhaps it was whoever had the most attempts. The point is everyone had their own definition of victory, and everyone wanted to be the victor, so everybody tried really hard. And it was tremendous fun.


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## Limasogobudo (Jul 4, 2015)

Kids learn from their past. we did the same but it was those that taught us to correct it so it would work for us. You have to do the same for them so they can learn to do that. When i teach kids this is how i do it. Take the youngest kids lets say 6. spend 6 minutes on a teaching. So I would teach lets say the first two steps of seisan. Then let them run or work em out. then come back to it. Kids minds change quicker then the channels on youtube. 

Also great way of team building.....

get some boxes, have the two teams make a castle, then play dodge-ball but the thing is they can only block the ball using their blocks from the kata, they can not catch it.

Well enjoy and have fun! Oss!


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