# NYPD Policy Feels The Heat



## MJS (Mar 11, 2010)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...nypd_stopfrisk_policy_feels_council_heat.html



> Two influential City Council members took dead aim at the NYPD's controversial stop-and-frisk policy on Wednesday, saying there is "serious concern" privacy rights are being violated.
> In a letter to Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, City Council Speaker Christine Quinn (D-Manhattan) and City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr. (D-Queens) criticized the NYPD's policy of saving personal information of people who are stopped and questioned but not charged with any wrongdoing.


 
So, are they stopping random people on the street, frisking them and getting their info., or are they stopping suspicious people?  Cops where I work, routinely come across people and ask for their names, ID cards, etc. to be run.  They're looking to see if there are any warrants, if they're in violation of anything, etc.  For example:  there are some apartment buildings, businesses, that have no tresspassing lists.  Perhaps the person is in an area, in violation of the order.  How else is the cop going to know, unless they run the person?  Its really no different than a cop running a plate.  They'll ask for personal info all the time, and anyone out there in scanner land, can hear it.  

I think some of these people who're so worried about someones rights being violated, should be spending their time worrying about other issues.


----------



## Archangel M (Mar 11, 2010)

"stopped and questioned but not charged with any wrongdoing." 

This does not mean that the cops didn't have reasonable suspicion. Not enough information in this story to determine what exactly is going on here. Many people get stopped and questioned without being charged. If you match the description of a suspect in a recent and nearby crime it may happen to you.

It looks like the issue is the retention of the data vs the legality of the detention.


----------



## MJS (Mar 11, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> "stopped and questioned but not charged with any wrongdoing."
> 
> This does not mean that the cops didn't have reasonable suspicion. Not enough information in this story to determine what exactly is going on here. Many people get stopped and questioned without being charged. If you match the description of a suspect in a recent and nearby crime it may happen to you.
> 
> It looks like the issue is the retention of the data vs the legality of the detention.


 
Agreed.  I'd love to know more of the story, but alas, as usual, we gotta go with what they give us, which 99% of the time isn't much.   Any idea as to what the usual time frame is for officers keeping info that they ran?  I mean, I cant see someone holding onto something for their entire career.    Additionally, any info thats run, that is put into the computer, is going to be retained and accessable for many years.  Are these people suggesting that it should be removed after a set amount of time?

Like I said, all the more reason for these people to mind their business, do their job, and let the officers do theirs.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Mar 11, 2010)

Considering the "Proud" history of the NYPD this is rather tame for them.  Usually they are making news when they are ramming flashlights, batons and the occasional desk lamp up someones rectal orface.....


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Mar 11, 2010)

*NYPD stop and frisks  on a record pace*



> Of those stopped, only 5.7% were arrested and another 5.7% were issued  summonses, the records show.




After checking a number of the links I found by googling NYPD stop frisk here's my view.

Cops performing their investigations, fine. 
Keep a database of arrests and convictions? fine.

Do we need a database of innocents too?

Is it really important that cops know that I've been questioned 25 times -without- being charged over 10 years? (numbers made up, btw, used for example purposes)

I can understand keeping my contact information on hand during an investigation, especially if I was a witness, just to be clear.  

Also, there seems to be some concern over racial profiling. Some looks to be smoke, some legit.  

Could someone explain the difference between a "frisk" and a "pat down" and a "search", because they're the same to me.


----------



## MJS (Mar 11, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Considering the "Proud" history of the NYPD this is rather tame for them. Usually they are making news when they are ramming flashlights, batons and the occasional desk lamp up someones rectal orface.....


 
Probably why this issue is coming up...nobody is getting sexually molested. 



Bob Hubbard said:


> *NYPD stop and frisks on a record pace*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, this is what I was wondering too.  I mean, I just dont see an officer keeping info for extended periods of time.  As for the racial profiling....no idea if any record is kept on people that're stopped on the street, but the cops where I work, fill out a paper every time they do a stop, with the race, sex, etc. of the person.  I should note that this is something thats supposed to be done.  Whether or not it is, after every stop is another issue.



> Could someone explain the difference between a "frisk" and a "pat down" and a "search", because they're the same to me.


 
As far as I'm concerned, they're all the same to me too, but perhaps one of our resident LEOs will be kind enough to elaborate more.


----------



## Archangel M (Mar 11, 2010)

A frisk and a "pat down" are for all intents and purposes the same and are what they sound like. I" pat" you feeling for what could be a weapon. A pat down is limited in scope, is for safety purposes and is for weapons only.

I have to be able to articulate why I am doing the frisk based on various factors, a bulge in your clothing that could be a weapon, your actions...such as constantly reaching for or touching said bulge (even when I tell you to keep your hand out of your pocket), the time and location of the contact, if you are a possible suspect in an armed crime, etc. This "search" is limited to areas and locations where weapons can be located. I cannot look in you wallet (or even take it out of your pocket), look into a cigarette box or open your purse on a pat-down. I would separate you from a purse though...a gun could be inside.

A search means that I am turning you inside out and going through your stuff for evidence or contraband. I need probable cause to do this such as a warrant or incident to your arrest. Or you need to give me your consent.


----------



## repz (May 31, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Considering the "Proud" history of the NYPD this is rather tame for them. Usually they are making news when they are ramming flashlights, batons and the occasional desk lamp up someones rectal orface.....


 
Wow...


----------

