# combining martial arts



## vivek (Jun 20, 2012)

hi guys ,
im vivek and have been learning judo and boxing for 3 months each. im looking at developing it as a self defense . need some guidance on how do i use them in combination . mma isnt an option since no good mma schools around.


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## Cyriacus (Jun 20, 2012)

Boxing and Judo work very well together. Youll find, in Boxing, that often when the intensity gets high, youll end up ramming into each other a bit and/or clinching. This is the type of situation where being able to grab on and grapple comes in handy. It really isnt too hard to blend them.

When You Box, take a few seconds to think "When could i grab on here? How could i lock up a bit?". When You do Judo, take a few seconds to think, "When could i get a punch in here?"
I think you might be surprised by the results. Other than that, use a heavy bag. practice going from punching, to offsetting yourself and grabbing on.

The other angle is that Judo is a good defence against grappling. Being rushed into for some way shape or form of takedown or throw isnt unheard of. You dont need to 'use' Judo in self defence. Judo can be used 'for' self defence. If that makes sense. You might not grab the other guy, but if he grabs you, you can try and alter the situation to your advantage.
MMA isnt necessary for what you want, just keep the two seperate in your head, and remember that it wont all come together for some time now. You havent been doing this for long. Be patient.

If you want to perhaps observe how thatd work, try and get inside, and clinch up some when you Box. Every time you successfully clinch up, remind yourself that you could switch to a hold favorable to Judo, and go from there. Or, get into a Judo hold. But throw punches instead of throw people


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## vivek (Jun 20, 2012)

thanks for the advice . will work on switching between the two in training


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## Flying Crane (Jun 20, 2012)

resist the urge to start mixing it up and doing your "own" thing too soon.  Take your time.  Learn your judo on its own merits, and learn your boxing on its own merits.  Gain an understanding of how each method works, how well you can utilize the skills that each teaches you.  Gradually you will come to understand how you can naturally combine the skills that each method gives you.  But don't try to artificially put something together after just a couple months of training.  You still don't understand either method, at all, to be able to do that.

Take your time, eventually the blend will happen naturally and organically.  Don't force it.


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## Instructor (Jun 20, 2012)

Michael that freaky Blade Runner Avatar freaks me out and is not in keeping with your sagely online demeanor.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 20, 2012)

Instructor said:


> Michael that freaky Blade Runner Avatar freaks me out and is not in keeping with your sagely online demeanor.



:lfao:  Long Live Leon!!!


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## GaryR (Jun 20, 2012)

vivek said:


> hi guys ,
> im vivek and have been learning judo and boxing for 3 months each. im looking at developing it as a self defense . need some guidance on how do i use them in combination . mma isnt an option since no good mma schools around.





vivek said:


> hi guys ,
> im vivek and have been learning judo and boxing for 3 months each. im  looking at developing it as a self defense . need some guidance on how  do i use them in combination . mma isnt an option since no good mma  schools around.



Hello,

As flying crane mentioned, its a good idea to learn  each to an appreciable degree before developing your own hybrid.  But  both boxing and judo can be rather functional more rapidly that your  average Karate / Kung fu school. I would be cautious with mixing so  early - BUT, its your training, own it, and do what you like, just set  goals, and work at it. If you were trying to do two completely different  arts - say Bagua and TKD - I would have to say you are Mal-training  yourself, but judo and boxing are complimentary -and the mechanics /  methods of one should compliment the other.

 I have seen  countless students over the years, and many have such different learning  curves/styles. So, you may be ok mixing as you like, or it could be a  complete disaster - I would have to see video of some two person work at  least to give you a better assessment - I'd be willing to do so if you  like. You can link me privately if you don't want the world to see.  

At first, I would just think of  the methods in terms of range and function.  Boxing and Judo can blend seamlessly, it should come naturally with practicing both if you are  training properly.  Just think in terms of what you need to accomplish;  There is an old saying in the Internal Martial arts-- "take the center  from the first motion".  Basically from the first contact you should be  at least 1)striking and 2) taking their center of balance, and not giving it back.  Your boxing and judo have obvious tools that can  accomplish this.  Just work with a partner, play around with the  material, do what works.  

Do you have an instructor that can guide you with the judo/boxing material into a self-defense context?

Best,

Gary


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## vivek (Jun 20, 2012)

currently, i have separate instructors for both . each is taught for their own competitions. while in the dojo, its only groundfighting and grappling and the boxing club , only sparring , bag punching etc. instructors are very good at their art but have hardly any knowledge of the other one. so the integration of the two in a self defense context i will have to work on my own


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## K-man (Jun 20, 2012)

vivek said:


> hi guys ,
> im vivek and have been learning judo and boxing for 3 months each. im looking at developing it as a self defense . need some guidance on how do i use them in combination . mma isnt an option since no good mma schools around.


The problem that I see is that both these systems are designed for sport and you have specifically said that you want to use the combination for self defence.  Certainly you can use boxing to help develop power into your punches and to build your stamina but I'm not sure that boxing will combine with judo to give you what you want. You have a problem with normal (sport) judo in that judo is about grabbing and controlling. Self defence, to me, is more about deflecting an attack and incapacitating your attacker with a quick strike that might be a fist but equally could be an elbow or knee.  Originally judo included strikes and I would be looking more closely at your judo to try to recognise where the atemi can be put back in. Perhaps, see if you can find some video of Dieto Ryu and see if that gives you some guidance.  Good luck with your training.    :asian:


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## Gentle Fist (Jun 20, 2012)

Do more training in each before mixing the two.  You have to have the basics mastered before grafting things together...


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## Buka (Jun 20, 2012)

You'll benefit from ten years of training. Then, combining will start to make sense and probably be a whole lot of fun. Just have a heck of a good time along the way.


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## Instructor (Jun 22, 2012)

So in ten years can we name it Judoxing or how about Bodo?


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## Cyriacus (Jun 22, 2012)

Instructor said:


> So in ten years can we name it Judoxing or how about Bodo?


No. Just Juxing.


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## Instructor (Jun 22, 2012)

Boju?


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## Cyriacus (Jun 22, 2012)

Instructor said:


> Boju?


Bojudin-Do.


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## punisher73 (Jun 22, 2012)

Just take Kajukenbo, the work has already been done.


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## Instructor (Jun 22, 2012)

It's for self defense so maybe it ought to end in Jutsu.


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## Cyriacus (Jun 22, 2012)

Instructor said:


> It's for self defense so maybe it ought to end in Jutsu.


Not sure itd make much difference


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## Aurum (Jul 1, 2012)

Judo and Boxing? Fascinating combo  

It's very close-combat. Bruce Lee used to say that styles often get in the way of expressing oneself or defending oneself effectively. I believe that after one is a student, disciplines himself and masters his technique, he should move on to find his ideal self-expressive style. 

In other words, I think it would be wise to simply find your own style, that which you feel most comfortable with. Learning the best style in the world isn't of much help if you don't feel comfortable with it and thus perform clumsily. I'm obviously not advising you to forget about the styles you've learned, but to combine these two styles plus your own personal preference onto them.

I mean, It's a bit hard to divide your style into two styles 50% by 50%. You'll always use one style more than the other at a given point, thus, I'd say the key is honestly expressing yourself in a spar in order to discover which moves and techniques you use most and are best at, in order to find your true fighting essence. If you fight honestly and open-heartily, you will not hesitate on which move to perform next or what reaction to have. You will act instinctively.

Anyway, these are not my words! I'm a mere student of the fascinating arts! But I do hope I've provided you with a meaningful point of view.


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## Omar B (Jul 1, 2012)

3 months in and you are already smashing the two styles head first into each other like a toddler with tonka trucks?  Not to sound negative, but you really should lear both more fully before mixing.  A white belt which I am assuming you are does not have the requisite knowledge or skill for such integration.


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## celestial_dragon (Oct 16, 2012)

If you want to combine different styles of MA. Take a look at krav maga, it is an isreali ma. It is also mixed with a bunch of different styles. and is one of the best out there. you might get a couple of ideas for your ma.


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## WC_lun (Oct 16, 2012)

Just train.  Work your tail off and eventually the lines between your Judo and Western Boxing will start to fade naturally.  The lines will fade because your understanding will be at a point that the two diciplines will both be in your head and body.

Both of these systems are for sporting and you must keep that in mind.  While they can be used for self defense, that isn't what you are training for.  You are training for sport and you will fight how you train.

There are systems out there that are more geared for self-defense,  but they aren't necessarily as easy to spot as some would have you believe.  For example, Wing Chun is a self defense system, but I have seen it taught instead as a tournament art.  The focus changes and so does the training.  That's great if you want a tournament art.  The name of a system does not make it self defense or anything else.  It is the training focus.


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## Mz1 (Oct 18, 2012)

From my experience of training standup (Muay Thai, Boxing, TKD) and on the ground (BJJ blue belt); I've realized that it doesn't automatically makes someone proficient in MMA.  I mean, you are indeed mixing martial arts with your Boxing + Judo, but still not the same in terms of how MMA is trained and fought in the cage.

Before I really trained MMA, I was already a blue belt in BJJ (won 3 silver in grappling tourneys), fought 6 MT and 2 Boxing fights in the ring, sparred for hundreds of hours (many for full KO's)....and I can tell you that getting grounded and pounded for that very first few times, were very different feelings that I never experienced before in any of my ring fights; almost inducing panic, so I tapped out. It didn't take long before I got used to it due to being experienced and then fought in my first MMA cage fight, but it made me realize that MMA is very different. 

So if you've got training in Boxing and Judo and someone took you down in the streets and starts to rain punches on you, it can be a completely new and foreign experience unless you train what's currently taught in MMA today.


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## Instructor (Oct 18, 2012)

This is an old thread.  I wish MT had some kind of age indicator.  But it isn't necessarily a bad thread to resurrect.

My feeling is this,  it isn't so much about style.  It's about you, the fighter.  Pick a style, work hard, and test your skills against a multitude of resistent opponents.  Don't just pit your skills against one style either.  Work with people from other disciplines.  Learn what your style has to counteract say a grappler or a kicker.  If you dig deep enough into just about any style they have covered this ground already and have solutions.

Even a style that seems to get picked on a lot like Tae Kwon Do has a surprising number of techniques for situations you don't often see in the typical dojang.  Pick a style and learn all it has to offer, chances are it has much more than you realize and is capable of standing up well if you are well trained and conditioned.


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## Mz1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Instructor said:


> My feeling is this,  it isn't so much about style.  It's about you, the fighter.  Pick a style, work hard, and test your skills against a multitude of resistent opponents.



It's not just the fighter. It's the fighter, the style(s) and the trainer. All affects the outcome. Like there's no question that Mike Tyson is capable killer, in and out of the ring; with the heart of a warrior. But due to his limited style, he'd get demolished in the UFC, where virtually all aspects of fighting is being tested.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 24, 2012)

hmm i don't know...demolished? He wouldn't beat some of the best people who are more well-rounded, but I'm pretty sure he would be able to get up there with just his boxing, especially if he adapted it slightly to fight kicks and grapplers. Look at the Cheick Kongo vs. Pat Barry fight from last summer. That fight was settled almost completely by punches, in fact it was won by one solid punch at the end. Not saying its common, just saying it happens, and would happen more if someone like tyson entered the cage.

Also, you're talking about a sport, boxing, versus another sport, a bit different than a style verse a style. Now if it was ancient pugilism versus someone learning judo and muay thai (or any combination most UFC fighters learn) who knows how pugilism would fare.


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## Mz1 (Oct 25, 2012)

kempodisciple said:


> hmm i don't know...demolished? He wouldn't beat some of the best people who are more well-rounded, but I'm pretty sure he would be able to get up there with just his boxing, especially if he adapted it slightly to fight kicks and grapplers.



I think it would be very unlikely. They all would take him down. The very best of MMA fighters' boxing is at best, sloppy, compared to Mike Tyson in his prime or maybe even now.

Tyson would have never fought MMA during his prime because he made 100x more money & fame in Boxing. The only way he'll risk his legendary legacy to fight MMA now is if he was really strapped for cash. And then, we'd be hearing the excuses that it's the old & tired Tyson, just like Toney, Mercer, etc. who tried to make a buck in MMA because Boxing no longer wants to pay them.



> Look at the Cheick Kongo vs. Pat Barry fight from last summer. That fight was settled almost completely by punches, in fact it was won by one solid punch at the end. Not saying its common, just saying it happens, and would happen more if someone like tyson entered the cage.



That's more due to DANA WHITE telling all the fighters that he's only going to book exciting fighters and not the ground and stall, boring ones. Early UFC's main attraction was the ground game of BJJ, but now, people are sick of that and wants to see more standup fighting ever since Maurice Smith, a kickboxer, won the title. Fighters are adjusting to satisfy Dana, who is trying to satisfy the demands of the paying PPV public. Dana won't flat out admit this, but it's pretty obvious. And if it were Tyson standing in front of them, it would be incredibly stupid for any MMA fight to try to box him.



> Also, you're talking about a sport, boxing, versus another sport, a bit different than a style verse a style. Now if it was ancient pugilism versus someone learning judo and muay thai (or any combination most UFC fighters learn) who knows how pugilism would fare.



Well  sport boxing since I specifically mentioned Tyson. 

While ancient pugilism is not that big of a deal, IMO. Muay Thai is pretty old and it already encompasses almost all aspects of standup fighting. Muay Boran is certainly old, and much more brutal than Muay Thai. And the modern combat fighter should be more powerful and resilient compared to ancient ones due to the leaps & bounds of advancement in nutrition, sports medicine, etc.


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