# Just joined Okinawan Kenpo



## Shotochem (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi all,

I am basically a Shotokan practioner.  I have just joined a group of Okinawian Kenpo guys and am starting to cross train.  My question to all you Kenpo and Kempo folks is what are the similarities and differences between my new style ans Shotokan.  Could someone also explain the difference between Okinawian and the Parker system to me.

So many questions.  I feel like a newbie again.


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## Blindside (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm guessing that your Okinawan Kenpo school has little to no similarities to almost any version of Parker Kenpo, but that is just based off the name.  In some peoples histories of the kenpo arts, they have James Mitose being taught by a member of the Motubo family (alternately a samurai link, alternately he didn't know diddly).  Then (according to those histories) Mitose taught Chow, and Chow taught Parker (alternately Chow wasn't a student of Mitose).  But everyone does agree that Chow taught Parker (whew!).  

If you follow and believe that very argued lineage, you can find a link to traditional Okinawan Kempo, but regardless, the modern (1960s and forward) kenpo doesn't much resemble those Okinawan systems.  Okinawan kempo is probably far closer related to Shotokan than Parker-derived kenpo.  

good luck and have fun!

Lamont


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## Zoran (Jul 28, 2005)

I agree with Blindside. 

 It will also depend on the lineage of the system. Okinawan Kempo tends to be similar to some systems of Karate. Your best bet is to find the lineage and discuss this in the Karate forum if you don't get much of a response here.

  Good luck with training and have fun!


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## Shotochem (Jul 28, 2005)

Since I'm so new to this style and am just starting I have no idea about the quality of its lineage.  

My new instructor studied directly under Shiguru Nakamura who studied from
Kentsu Yabu, Chomo Hanishiro, and Anko Itosu.  Also Shinkinci Kuniyosi.

It is really confusing to me as I generally think of Kenpo and Kempo as the Ed Parker system.  

So much to learn, so little time.


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 28, 2005)

The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo . They practice similar Kata , the Pinan's or the Heian's in Shotokan , Bassai , etc . There will be some differences , like you might do a cat stance instead of a back stance , blocking metods might be different , as well . But , the style is similar , in that they are both Shuri/Tomari based systems.


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2005)

okinawagojuryu said:
			
		

> The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo


 This is so, but it'll be closer yet to Okinawan styles of Karate like Goju and Shorin. Okinawan Kempo, a.k.a. Ryukyu Kempo, is an early form of karate. It places a greater emphasis on grappling and pressure-point techniques than Japanese Karate (like Shotokan) usually does.


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 28, 2005)

Okinawan Kenpo is nothing like Goju Ryu , at all . While , I do agree it is close in resemblance to Shorin Ryu , due to the fact it is a Shuri/Tomari based .


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2005)

It's closer to Goju than it is to Shotokan, which is harder yet. I agree that it's closer still to Shorin.


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 28, 2005)

The Kihon is totally different . The kata is totally different . They only do one Naha Te Kata , Sanchin , which is done totally different from Goju Ryu . Could you explain how , in your opinion they are similar ? I just dont see it .


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## Shotochem (Jul 28, 2005)

I know from experience that Shotokan is a hard linear style.  Is OK more hard or soft? Circular or linear?  The group I watched looked very different than what I am used to.

Back stance was completely different, they used a lot of cat stance and seemed to be using a lot of double bone blocks coming at different angle than I was taught.  There were also many different types of hand techniques that we rarely practiced that seems to be a regular part of their system.  I am getting excited again.  These may the missing pieces and fresh start I have been looking for.  I need to know if the past 6 yrs of training have been a waste of time or a good solid foundation to build on.

I have reached my MA crossroads and don't know which path to take. :idunno:


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2005)

Japanese styles tend to be relatively more linear. Okinawan styles tend to be relatively more circular. I prefer Okinawan karate to Japanese--I think it's more practical. But, that's just me. I no longer study either.


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2005)

okinawagojuryu said:
			
		

> Could you explain how , in your opinion they are similar ?


 Okinawan styles are generally more similar to one another than they are to Japanese styles--more circularity, more upright and forward-facing stances, more open-hand techniques, more emphasis on grappling, etc. So, a statement like "The Okinawan Kenpo that you will be learning will be closer to Shotokan then Parkers Kenpo ." (sic) is correct, but doesn't go far enough. Ryukyu Kempo and Shotokan are still too dissimilar. It's closer to Goju-ryu and closer yet to Shorin-ryu.

 Comparing it to Shotokan made sense because that's what the original poster had studied, but I feel the Japanese Karate vs. Okinawan Karate distinction is quite significant and I was trying to bring that into the discussion.

 Do you disagree that Okinawan Kenpo is more similar to Goju than it is to Shotokan?


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## Pacificshore (Jul 28, 2005)

Shotochem said:
			
		

> I know from experience that Shotokan is a hard linear style.  Is OK more hard or soft? Circular or linear?  The group I watched looked very different than what I am used to.
> 
> Back stance was completely different, they used a lot of cat stance and seemed to be using a lot of double bone blocks coming at different angle than I was taught.  There were also many different types of hand techniques that we rarely practiced that seems to be a regular part of their system.  I am getting excited again.  These may the missing pieces and fresh start I have been looking for.  I need to know if the past 6 yrs of training have been a waste of time or a good solid foundation to build on.
> 
> I have reached my MA crossroads and don't know which path to take. :idunno:


Yo Shotochem,

How are ya?  Sounds like you've been busy   Don't look at your 6 years of training in Shotokan as a waste.  It has provided you a solid foundation to build upon as I see it.  I too studied Shotokan for several years after having spent most, if not all, my time in the Kenpo art.

In my original art of Kenpo, we did many of the Okinawan katas...pinans, kusanku, anaku, nihachi's, fukiyu's, and so forth.  When I compared my time with Shotokan, I to found in Kenpo that we worked more hand techniques/strikes, as well as kicks.  We had the 4 basic blocks like in Shotokan, but then learned other ways to execute open hand blocks to parries, which I found that Shotokan did not do.  Shotokan however taught me to develop power from body rotation, something I didn't really do in my earlier training.  For the most part, I tried to rely on my speed to generate power....didn't always work 

Also there was more angling footwork in my Kenpo studies, whereas Shotokan was very linear.  Just a different interpretation to get from point A to B   What my Kenpo training has taught me besides all the katas, self defense sets, and drills is fluidity in movement, and the multiple methods of striking.  Now when I add in the ways to generate power that's the suff I learned from my old Shotokan club   Good luck by the way!


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 28, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Do you disagree that Okinawan Kenpo is more similar to Goju than it is to Shotokan?


I really do believe okinawan kenpo , atleast that was taught by Odo , who learned from Nakamura , to be closer to Shotokan . I have a friend , though i havent seen him in a while , from what I remember the Kata are almost identical , so are their basics . The Kata , & basics in Goju are totally different . Goju , as the name implies is hard , & soft . To me Okinawan Kenpo is hard , & linear .


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 28, 2005)

You can take a look at the Okinawan Kenpo kata here , & you will see how close it is to Shotokan : http://karate.dhs.org/katanote.htm


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## arnisador (Jul 28, 2005)

My experiences with Ryukyu Kempo lead me to feel differently. But, I am not expert in it!


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## Shotochem (Jul 29, 2005)

Pacificshore said:
			
		

> Yo Shotochem,
> 
> How are ya?  Sounds like you've been busy
> 
> Also there was more angling footwork in my Kenpo studies, whereas Shotokan was very linear.  Just a different interpretation to get from point A to B   What my Kenpo training has taught me besides all the katas, self defense sets, and drills is fluidity in movement, and the multiple methods of striking.  Now when I add in the ways to generate power that's the suff I learned from my old Shotokan club   Good luck by the way!



Well Pacific,
     This is where you've been hanging out lately.  I haven't seen you on the other forum.
     I noticed they were a lot more fluid in their movements than me.  I just thought it was me being an old fart. :ultracool 

     I did also notice they did not expolde (for lack of a better term) out of their stances and did not drive with the hip as much as we do in Shotokan.
Yet, they seems to have enough power and had IMO better movement.

Now if I can combine the best of these 2 arts, I may have found what I have been looking for.


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## Gene Williams (Jul 29, 2005)

Whatever that is in those clips, it isn't a very good rendition of kata. It surely isn't Okinawan looking...much more like Shotokan.


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## Pacificshore (Jul 29, 2005)

Shotochem said:
			
		

> Well Pacific,
> This is where you've been hanging out lately.  I haven't seen you on the other forum.
> I noticed they were a lot more fluid in their movements than me.  I just thought it was me being an old fart. :ultracool
> 
> ...


Seems to me that you've made the same kind of assessment as I did when I took up Shotokan


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 29, 2005)

okinawagojuryu said:
			
		

> You can take a look at the Okinawan Kenpo kata here , & you will see how close it is to Shotokan : http://karate.dhs.org/katanote.htm


the version of naihanchi on that website looks like it was done by someone who learned it from a shotokan teacher.
this is indicated by the wide kiba dachi and the quick start and stop movements.
funakoshi renamed it tekki for that reason.
the name naihanchi is indicative of the proper kamae used for the kata which tends to be a little more shallow with the toes pointed in slightly a la sanchin, with the movements being a little more fluid and circular.


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## donald (Jul 30, 2005)

Et Al,

Does'nt it depend on which system of Oki. Kenpo you study? Does'nt the gent in PA (Bruce something) teach a different system than the Odo version of Ryu Kyu ? Technically, could't there be some pretty different versions to the various kata? Such as the differences between the Tracy, EPAK forms? Even though there are numerous simularities. There are also some applicational differences.

By GOD's Grace,
1st John1:9


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 30, 2005)

there might be some differences in body posture and such......as in the way uechi-ryu does sanchin and the way goju does sanchin......but one would still be able to see that its still sanchin. this is far different than the "tekki" kata i saw on that site, compared to naihanchi. there are big differences.
not that there is anything wrong with that.


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## okinawagojuryu (Jul 30, 2005)

donald said:
			
		

> Does'nt the gent in PA (Bruce something) teach a different system than the Odo version of Ryu Kyu ?



No , Bruce Heilman was a long time student of Seikichi Odo .


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## Shotochem (Jul 30, 2005)

Well Guys,

I found out for myself what it really is like.  I just survived an hour and a half class.  

It is very different than the Shotokan that I am used too.  Different hand and body position on techniques.  They have so many more types of strikes and techniques that we rarely use in Shotokan.  Some things felt the same but most felt different.  They also put a larger emphasis on body conditioning and fighting than my Shotokan school.

The biggest difference to my amazement was that they go full contact.  No not hard.  FULL contact.  They wear more protective gear that I'm used to but you can really go all out. :jedi1: 

I actually sparred in my first class.  I walked in wearing my old white belt and after a class with them quite frankly I felt like one.  I had no idea that you could actually and are encouraged to use groin strikes and low kicks to the legs.  Sweeps, throw, takedowns, locks and continuing to finish while still on the ground. :xtrmshock  :xtrmshock  :xtrmshock 

I can't wait to go back. :supcool: 

I was so impressed I signed up.  It's official I have succumbed to the darkside!!!


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## Pacificshore (Aug 1, 2005)

Shotochem said:
			
		

> Well Guys,
> 
> I found out for myself what it really is like.  I just survived an hour and a half class.
> 
> ...


Glad you enjoyed your first class.....now go rest for the next day, and the day after


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## Perpetual White Belt (Dec 11, 2007)

okinawagojuryu said:


> No , Bruce Heilman was a long time student of Seikichi Odo .


Actually Bruce did a lot of the kata differently from Odo Sensei.  Had something to do with his Jujutsu training I think.  He moved a lot differently.  I think he may have been a Shotokan black belt at one point too.  I may be thinking of John Snyder though.


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