# Police Response



## jks9199 (Apr 23, 2012)

OK, some background.  In THIS thread, Zenjael posted the following (I have done some editing; the links to the original posts are in each quote):


Zenjael said:


> A few weeks ago, at the same 7-11 where I stared  down an attempted robbery, a fight broke out between two ghetto crowds  over someone in the group having had sex with the other and both sides  were trying to keep a fistfight from breaking out... badly. The store  couldn't get the police to come, until I recommended they lie that the  customers in the store were too scared to come out (it was a lie)....  but despite trying for an hour to summon the police, none would come. I  told them just to report the lie I told, and they did, and within 15  seconds a car showed up. The altercators left.



and, in response to some other posts, we got this:



Zenjael said:


> A lot of cops in my area are a bit crooked, but a lot are also very good people.  There are stupid laws, and good laws, either way they're laws. I  feel  the same about cops, and they deserve due respect, regardless of  my  personal inclinations toward how they act or behave. I mainly wish  they  would respond more often however, than they tend to do.



Rather than derail that thread further than it's already been...  I figured I'd start a new thread about it.

First, directly to Zenjael:

I'm  not going to let you get away with that accusation about the police in your area.  I know too many of  the  cops who work your area.  I work with them.   I train with them.  So, support your claim  that "a  lot of cops in my area are a little bit crooked..."  Give me  some sort  of evidence.  You won't be able to; FCPD, GMU PD, and the  other agencies  in the area with 2 well known exceptions (one of which  was shut down  yet again about 18 months ago, and is rebuilding) have  excellent,  deservedly so, reputations for their integrity and fairness. 

 By  the way -- your story is in no way consistent with FCPD dispatch   policies, either.  If it's true, PM me the date, time and address, and I   will see that it gets to the proper people's attention (even if it wasn't in Fairfax county; I have contacts throughout the region, including MPDC and several agencies in MD).  Or you can   report it directly HERE.  FCPD will generally dispatch an officer to any call, if   the caller requests one.  The same is true of most agencies.  Calls are   prioritized, generally with crimes in progress that may involve  injuries  at the top and suspicious person, or traffic complaints, at  the  bottom.  Give some examples of the police "not responding."   Describe a  few situations; several of us are police officers, we have  at least one  dispatch/communications center staff member, and even some  fire fighters  on the board.  Maybe be can give you some insight into  it.

More generally... Let's talk about what you should do if you want the cops to come help you.

First, CALL IT IN!  Many of us try to be reasonably proactive, but we can't be everywhere.  And we don't know your neighborhood or haunts the way you do.  Even those of us who actually get out of the cruisers...  And we're not mind readers or clairvoyants.  We don't know what's going on if you don't tell us.  Don't assume that "someone else" will make that call either.  Every call taker and dispatcher I know would rather receive 5 duplicate calls about a crime in progress or other problem than none at all.

Second, be honest.  If you lie or exaggerate, you may well get us there quicker -- but we may not be where we are really needed, and you put people at needless risk.  Say you call in a barking dog as shots fired... you endanger people as we drive code (lights and sirens) to the call.  2 out of the last 5 officers killed (both on 4/19/2012) died in crashes responding to calls.  Every year, tragically, innocent people get hurt or killed crashing with cops running lights and sirens to calls.  And, if you lie, we just may do something nasty like charge you with something like obstruction of justice.

Third, give some details.  Addresses are important; how else will we know where to go?  And try to get the street name right; it can be a clue as to the jurisdiction.  We've got some very similar sounding roads that are miles apart -- and getting it right when you talk to my dispatcher may get you transferred to the proper jurisdiction, rather than having me driving around looking for you in the wrong place.  Describe people and vehicles; tags are great.  If you're telling us that someone is carrying drugs or driving while suspended -- tell us how you know.  It can make the difference in what we can do...

Maybe someone else can add to these?


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## ballen0351 (Apr 23, 2012)

I thought about commenting on his posts but figured it was pointless.  

As to your list they are right on the money.

The only thing I would add is depending on your area sometimes its faster to call the police directly instead of 911.  For example at one of may past departments the county police dept had the 911 center so if you called 911 but the event was in my jurisdiction you would tell the 911 Operator what you needed and where then they would transfer you to my dispatchers and you would need to tell the story all over again So its quicker to call the PD first.

Also if its not an Emergency dont call 911.  Find the number to the PD and call them directly.  When you call 911 for something non-emergency your taking the time of a 911 dispatcher that could be needed for a real emergency.  Also once you called you dont need to keep calling to see when we are coming.  Unless something in the situation has changed you dont need to call again and again and again it wont get the police any faster.


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## jks9199 (Apr 23, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> I thought about commenting on his posts but figured it was pointless.
> 
> As to your list they are right on the money.
> 
> The only thing I would add is depending on your area sometimes its faster to call the police directly instead of 911.  For example at one of may past departments the county police dept had the 911 center so if you called 911 but the event was in my jurisdiction you would tell the 911 Operator what you needed and where then they would transfer you to my dispatchers and you would need to tell the story all over again So its quicker to call the PD first.


Absolutely true -- but we're not supposed to say that anymore.  Don't want to confuse people about where to call in an emergency.  At my agency, if you need POLICE response within our jurisdiction, the fastest way to get it is to call our dispatcher.  911 goes to the regional fire & rescue dispatch center first, where they determine if it's a fire & rescue call or police call, and then what jurisdiction's police, then patch it through to us.  But we're not supposed to say call anything but 911 in our area in an emergency.  Even had to take our "emergency number" off the cars....


> Also if its not an Emergency dont call 911.  Find the number to the PD and call them directly.  When you call 911 for something non-emergency your taking the time of a 911 dispatcher that could be needed for a real emergency.  Also once you called you dont need to keep calling to see when we are coming.  Unless something in the situation has changed you dont need to call again and again and again it wont get the police any faster.



One thing I meant to type and omitted:  Once you call, stay on the line until the call taker says to go, unless it's unsafe for you to do so...  You may be providing some important info and updates as we're coming.


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## MJS (Apr 23, 2012)

Can't really add much to whats already been said.  As I said in the other thread, I think the response that was stated, was a bit far fetched.  If we held a call of that nature for that long or if the cops took an hour to get there, heads would certainly roll.  Even if officers are currently on a call, and a higher priority call comes in, we simply break them from the call they're on.  

As for ensuring you're making the call to the right place...be familiar with how things work in your area.  We dispatch for a city and an adjoining smaller town.  Each of the PDs have their own numbers, directly to the station, however the smaller of the 2 doesnt always have someone inside.  The routine line is typically the one people call, and it rings in the dispatch center.  911 from either the city or town will go to the same place.  And of course, many times, especially with cell phones, its important to establish where the caller is.  Many times, I have to transfer the caller to the State Police or another town.  Thats the one draw back with cell phones.  Couple this with the fact that alot of the time, people have NO clue where they are.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 23, 2012)

Im not in the USA, but I do know from people I speak with every couple of days who do live in the USA, that the Police Force is only bad with response times when either A: Theyre all already out responding to something, or B: If its unclear what theyre doing or where theyre going.

I cant help but wonder if the fact that the person who called them was apparently drunk had anything to do it.


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## Zenjael (Apr 23, 2012)

Im making three responses on this thread.

There are many cops in this area, who are crooked. I've seen a drug dog beaten in front of me, and multiple people pulled over simply for racial profiling. When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them. I watched a house party across the street where I live get harassed by officers, who waited outside, flashing their lights at the house for HOURS to try to lure people out. Some people abuse their authority, but hardly all. Fairfax County police are largely known as problematic for the larger populace here, but that does not mean all cops, or even many are bad. Some are, and they've made it hell for people in the area.

Secondly, I gave a date already. November 1st, between 11:50 PM - 12:05 AM of Nov 2nd. Get it taken care of, if you are so well connected. I would thank you for it.

Thirdly, the 'lie'. The store clerks had been attempting to summon the police since before my friend I arrived at 2 AM to get coffee. We were there for 10-15 minutes discussing with them the altercation outside, while another was in the back still attempting to call police. As the altercation was literally occurring on the doorstep, I told him to tell him that the disturbance was causing customers to fear leaving the building. Was I afraid? No, but I knew it would get the police to come. Not even 30 seconds later an officer showed up. Mind you this was the 7-11 across the street from our local police station. They could have WALKED across the street in the time it took them to drive.

I don't care if you know police in this area- everybody in Springfield does. It's a commuter community which oft acts like a town smaller than it actually is. I go into the local bar near my house, I'll recognize people from high-school consistently.

I don't mind police- you need them for civil order. But I hate bad police, which exist everywhere.

Oh and if you really are so gung-ho about how awesome the police force is in this area, let me show you exactly how big a laughingstock we are online;

http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-sal (Incredibly disgusting story)
http://www.cracked.com/article_19616_the-6-most-baffling-serial-crimes.html (task force on buttslasher #5)
http://www.cracked.com/article_19134_6-wacky-misunderstandings-at-scene-grizzly-crimes_p2.html (#6)

You know who real heroes are though, our military servicemen, and fire-rescue, and EMT personal. I work at DD part times where we give 50% discount on items to officers. I hate it, because to me it disrespects everyone else who serves our country.

I'm not returning to reply to this thread, because I have nothing but respect for our men in blue. You are deliberately purporting I hold a view different than this, and I don't care for it. If you really can't see the issues this area has concerning it's police enforcement, then clearly you either don't live here, and thus shouldn't be saying anything about the enforcement here.

My family has police- stop making assumptions and strawmanning.


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## Buka (Apr 23, 2012)

I could get riled....or I could get popcorn.

Yummm, popcorn!


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## K-man (Apr 23, 2012)

Zenjael said:


> Oh and if you really are so gung-ho about how awesome the police force is in this area, let me show you exactly how big a laughingstock we are online;
> 
> http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-sal (Incredibly disgusting story)
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19616_the-6-most-baffling-serial-crimes.html (task force on buttslasher #5)
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19134_6-wacky-misunderstandings-at-scene-grizzly-crimes_p2.html (#6)


What entertainment value   ....   not!

Alex you really should pick your resources better.  How credible is this website (cracked.com) when I find this:



> [h=2]From the Editors of Cracked.com[/h][h=1]You Might Be a Zombie and Other Bad News[/h]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I sure know where you find inspiration for your great stories.   :iws:


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## jks9199 (Apr 23, 2012)

Zenjael said:


> Im making three responses on this thread.
> 
> There are many cops in this area, who are crooked. I've seen a drug dog beaten in front of me, and multiple people pulled over simply for racial profiling. When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them. I watched a house party across the street where I live get harassed by officers, who waited outside, flashing their lights at the house for HOURS to try to lure people out. Some people abuse their authority, but hardly all. Fairfax County police are largely known as problematic for the larger populace here, but that does not mean all cops, or even many are bad. Some are, and they've made it hell for people in the area.


Let's define crooked a bit, OK?  I know actual words and definitions don't seem to be your strong suit, but they're pretty important when you make allegations.  Anecdotes without support or details don't make your argument.  I'm not even going to try to address the drug dog; I don't know a single K9 handler who would "beat" their partner, but I suppose it's possible. Or that perhaps you saw something you didn't understand.  You say you've seen people pulled over for no reason, except racial profiling...  I'm skeptical because FCPD requires documentation on each and every stop.  The cop transporting you after court?  Was he a cop, or a deputy -- but I'll even give you that as an unprofessional move.  Not dirty or corrupt; that would have been beating you down and then releasing the cuffs and saying you attempted escape.  The party?  Sounds like they were doing what they could to deal with a problem where they're hands were somewhat tied.  We handled a similar mess one time, by putting parking tickets on every car we could, contact owners/parents of the cars, while we worked on contacting the homeowner.  Silly us & the cops you watched, respecting that pesky 4th Amendment.

Corruption.  



> Secondly, I gave a date already. November 1st, between 11:50 PM - 12:05 AM of Nov 2nd. Get it taken care of, if you are so well connected. I would thank you for it.
> 
> Thirdly, the 'lie'. The store clerks had been attempting to summon the police since before my friend I arrived at 2 AM to get coffee. We were there for 10-15 minutes discussing with them the altercation outside, while another was in the back still attempting to call police. As the altercation was literally occurring on the doorstep, I told him to tell him that the disturbance was causing customers to fear leaving the building. Was I afraid? No, but I knew it would get the police to come. Not even 30 seconds later an officer showed up. Mind you this was the 7-11 across the street from our local police station. They could have WALKED across the street in the time it took them to drive.


I wasn't going to go here... but it's actually about 2 or 3 blocks away; I'm not even 100% certain you can see one from the other, though it's been a bit since I was out there, so I won't say that with certainty.  But that's kind of irrelevant, since cops don't stay in the station.  They go in, they do business, and they go back out on patrol.  In the wee hours you describe, there might be a couple of cops in the station.  Most would be out on patrol, answering calls.  So, yeah, they probably did have to drive.  Even if they were there -- they'd still have had to drive, since that cruiser is kind of the cop's office.

OK -- did YOU call 911?  Of the non-emergency number?  Do you know how the clerks were "trying to summon the police" (and how did we move from midnight to 2 AM?)


> I don't care if you know police in this area- everybody in Springfield does. It's a commuter community which oft acts like a town smaller than it actually is. I go into the local bar near my house, I'll recognize people from high-school consistently.
> 
> I don't mind police- you need them for civil order. But I hate bad police, which exist everywhere.
> 
> ...


Sal Culosi... did you notice -- and have you read -- the report released to the public about the incident?  I can tell you it had major impact on how FCPD does things.  But this isn't corruption; at worst, it's perhaps overzealous or careless police work.





> http://www.cracked.com/article_19616_the-6-most-baffling-serial-crimes.html (task force on buttslasher #5)


The butt slasher... Weird, very difficult case to investigate as many victims didn't even realize they were victims until they got home, the events occurred at a few different places, in highly public but lightly monitored areas...  and really, Cracked, as a source?  Gonna cite The Onion next?





> http://www.cracked.com/article_19134_6-wacky-misunderstandings-at-scene-grizzly-crimes_p2.html (#6)


 Perhaps you meant #1, the CSI-themed party?  Not the cops at all there; the homeowner came home to what looked like a crime scene, and went for help.  Incredibly enough, the cops returned with her... and figured out what was up.


> You know who real heroes are though, our military servicemen, and fire-rescue, and EMT personal. I work at DD part times where we give 50% discount on items to officers. I hate it, because to me it disrespects everyone else who serves our country.


Dunkin Donuts gives discounts and free coffee to cops on duty in order to get them to stop in.  It's that friggin' simple.  And I bet that a fair number of them put something in the tip jar, too.





> I'm not returning to reply to this thread, because I have nothing but respect for our men in blue. You are deliberately purporting I hold a view different than this, and I don't care for it. If you really can't see the issues this area has concerning it's police enforcement, then clearly you either don't live here, and thus shouldn't be saying anything about the enforcement here.
> 
> My family has police- stop making assumptions and strawmanning.


I guess I've been talking to myself...


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## K-man (Apr 24, 2012)

Zenjael said:


> When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them.


I suppose it's nice to know that we are not the only ones you have p1$$*d off!


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 24, 2012)

Before calls are dispatched, they are prioritized.  When there are no available resources in a given area, and the call does not involve actual violence being committed on innocent citizens, it waits.  The citizen does not know what the other calls taking priority at that moment might be.  That's how it goes, it's all about triage.

When a citizen lies about the circumstances to try to increase the speed of the response time, they may get it.  They may also effectively deny a more rapid police response to a situation which is truly more important.  This is not only illegal in some places (false reporting), it is also immoral; how would you like to be the person truly in need of immediate assistance and find out that they police were on the way, but were called off because someone else's call suddenly became more important, except it wasn't, they were just tired of waiting.  I find that kind of behavior despicable.

When runs into a lot of cops who have attitudes, here's a thought.  Maybe all cops have bad attitudes.  Or maybe you're a punk who brings out the worst in them.  Hmmm.

You have all kinds of 'respect' for the police, fire, EMS, and military, all of which you've never been.  You're not a member of the team, so your cheers mean nothing. 

You keep saying you're planning to enlist.  That will be interesting, given your admitted criminal history as an adult.  I wish you luck, but you get no congratulations from me until you do actually do it.  Many people talk a good fight.  Man up and do it or stop talking about it.


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## MJS (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh...leaving already?  Is it because you're not getting the answers you were hoping for?  Anyways, whether or not you're coming back is moot.  I'm going to comment on your post anyways.  




Zenjael said:


> Im making three responses on this thread.
> 
> There are many cops in this area, who are crooked. I've seen a drug dog beaten in front of me, and multiple people pulled over simply for racial profiling. When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them. I watched a house party across the street where I live get harassed by officers, who waited outside, flashing their lights at the house for HOURS to try to lure people out. Some people abuse their authority, but hardly all. Fairfax County police are largely known as problematic for the larger populace here, but that does not mean all cops, or even many are bad. Some are, and they've made it hell for people in the area.



We have 6 dogs where I work.  Some are strictly drug dogs, some are strictly tracking, some are cross trained for both.  Every single one of those K9 handlers show nothing but love for those dogs.  I know handlers from other towns, and again, nothing but love.  As I've said, there are some bad apples.  However, since I'm not in that area, I'm sure that JKS could verify anything thats been said.  



> Secondly, I gave a date already. November 1st, between 11:50 PM - 12:05 AM of Nov 2nd. Get it taken care of, if you are so well connected. I would thank you for it.



I'll await for his reply.



> Thirdly, the 'lie'. The store clerks had been attempting to summon the police since before my friend I arrived at 2 AM to get coffee. We were there for 10-15 minutes discussing with them the altercation outside, while another was in the back still attempting to call police. As the altercation was literally occurring on the doorstep, I told him to tell him that the disturbance was causing customers to fear leaving the building. Was I afraid? No, but I knew it would get the police to come. Not even 30 seconds later an officer showed up. Mind you this was the 7-11 across the street from our local police station. They could have WALKED across the street in the time it took them to drive.



Of course this is on the assumption that there actually was someone inside the PD at the time.  Like I said, I also take care of a smaller town.  There is a phone outside the PD that rings in dispatch as the front door, during non business hours, is locked.  Many times, in this town, there're only 2 cops working and they're both on the road.  2nd, depending on the call volume, all the officers could be tied up.  When the poop is hitting the fan, or in a case of a situation like you're describing, officers are simply broke from the less priority call they're on.  A time delay?  Sure, but only a few minutes, which of course, is going to seem like enternity to the person calling.  Officers can't warp to the calls.  



> I don't care if you know police in this area- everybody in Springfield does. It's a commuter community which oft acts like a town smaller than it actually is. I go into the local bar near my house, I'll recognize people from high-school consistently.
> 
> I don't mind police- you need them for civil order. But I hate bad police, which exist everywhere.
> 
> ...



I'd take those links with a major grain of salt.  Why?  Because I too, can find articles like that, where anonymous people who like to bash cops, get on, under the cloak of being a chicken ****, and talk nothing but ****.  What I always say is this....to those that think every cop is lazy, do me a favor.  Apply for the job.  Just a few days ago, there were 2 deaths in a city.  In one case, the cops hit the guy with a taser...he died.  In the other, the taser wasn't working, and they shot him.  Right off the bat, the comments rolled..."Couldn't they have done this or that?"  "Why did they kill him?"  The list goes on and on.  To those people...spend a day in the shoes of a cop.  I'd love to see those that think lethal force needs to be used, deal, all by themselves, with a guy much larger, much stronger, and under the influence of God only knows what.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 24, 2012)

Well Zenjael, I tried to give you the benefit of doubt, and give you several outs. My comments on truthfulness stand for anyone. Some people can remember things better than others. However, you may want to consider how others perceive what you say. Over my short time in MT, it seems many people are comfortable with who they are, and are willing to accept others for what they say they are. However, some are experienced MA, with a long time in their art. I don't always agree with everything said, since I bounce comments off *my* experience and beliefs, and abilities. But if you or anyone strays a bit into places where it seems you are stretching credibility, you will be called out to explain. If you can, well. If continue to stretch credibility, you will probably not be perceived as you wish.

Beyond that, you have gone a bit too far with your characterization of police. If you ask me if I think there are corrupt cops, I would tell you that there have been some, and they have indeed been found out. Usually by their own departments BTW. But in my experience they are a very very small percentage. It may vary by department also.

But you, intentionally or not, are making it sound like you think it is the norm for corrupt police to be the majority. I take issue with that. I have been in police or security work most of my adult life. For sure in the places I have been, it was not how you seem to think. 

You admit to encouraging someone to lie in requesting police assistance. That is a crime in most jurisdictions. Police usually don't push that too much, for fear of discouraging legitimit reporting by citizens. But you aren't helping. Nor should you admit to being taken to court for a crime, and encouraging someone to commit a crime, then attack police. It does you no credit.

As to the FFCP, or other police departments in northern Virginia, I'm not aware there is any well known public understanding that all are incompetent or corrupt, unless perhaps in your circle of friends. If you knew me well enough to get me to talk about it, you might hear me criticize things I know of personally or have heard of. But it would take a lot for me to do that to non-police. I can criticize because I have the experience to do so. I don't see that you do.

And I would be reluctant to do so outside of a small circle of family or friends, or amongst other police. We tend not to put each other down in public. Not just because of the "thin blue line," per se, you often hear of. To me, that never justifys overlooking crime or greivious misconduct. But if things are handled within the department, and mistakes are either punished or trained away, why give fodder to people like you?

You see, you don't really know what police encounter in their jobs. You can see things and not understand why they are being done. They may be a correct response or questionable. Any time you believe the latter, you should report it. Don't expect them to get back to you. But any police department that is accredited, will at least yearly, make available reports of misconduct, and the results of the investigation. Again, unless every report is reported as bogus (and even that may be correct), don't assume a report that there was no police misconduct is an indication of corruptness or whitewash. As I said, you may see things and not understand what was going on, only what you perceive was going on. 

Lastly, I encourage you to monitor how you speak, and how you are perceived, if it is important to you. It seems that is so. I agree with what Tez3 said in the other post. I think you are basically a good person. I also think you have things to say we would not take issue with and would be happy to discuss. But you may not be expressing yourself as you would hope you are. You must be what you are inside, but outside, do consider how you express yourself, and how you may insult people you have no reason to insult.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 24, 2012)

General FYI - Cracked is pretty credible, except when Theyre screwing around.
Thats _alot_.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 24, 2012)

Zenjael said:


> I've seen a drug dog beaten in front of me


As a former Police K-9 Handler I can say sometimes things are done that appear bad to the public but dont actually hurt the dog.  Alpha Rolling for example.  Ive never seen a K-9 handler "beat" a dog.  There are better methods available like the pressure point inside the hind leg.  Most police K-9's are extreamly high drive dogs and you do need to get there attention at times but beating them wont work.  There are bad K-9 handlers out there dont get me wrong and you may very well have seen one but I suspect you saw something you didnt understand.




> , and multiple people pulled over simply for racial profiling.


How do you know why the officer pulled them over?  I profile all the time and race has nothing to do with it.  I can tell by the way someone is walking if they are armed, I can tell by reactions to my presence that someones up to no good.  I know when I see a registration plate from a county over an hour away and they are in one of our well known drug areas that theres a good chance they are here to buy drugs.    None of that has anything to do with Race but it is profiling.  When I see a car full of teenagers hanging out by a liquor store I knwo what they are trying to do.  BUT all that is irrelevent because no matter what my feelings are I still need a LEGAL reason to stop them.



> When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them.


BS.  did you file a complaint with his supervisor?  



> I watched a house party across the street where I live get harassed by officers, who waited outside, flashing their lights at the house for HOURS to try to lure people out.


That sat outside in a neighborhood for HOURS with lights on and none of the neighbors called and complained about all the lights?  They had no other calls for service for HOURS that they could just sit there?  What drew there attention to the house party in the first place how did they know it was there?  



> Some people abuse their authority, but hardly all.


And some people make up stories for the internet to show how Bad *** they are but most dont feel the need to. 



> Fairfax County police are largely known as problematic for the larger populace here, but that does not mean all cops, or even many are bad. Some are, and they've made it hell for people in the area.


All dealings with the Fairfax County PD Ive had they have always been professional.



> Secondly, I gave a date already. November 1st, between 11:50 PM - 12:05 AM of Nov 2nd. Get it taken care of, if you are so well connected. I would thank you for it.


Having trouble remembering your own story?  You say 1150 here and the very next line you typed says after 2am?  If your going to make up soemthing keep your story straight.


> Thirdly, the 'lie'. The store clerks had been attempting to summon the police since before my friend I arrived at 2 AM to get coffee. We were there for 10-15 minutes discussing with them the altercation outside, while another was in the back still attempting to call police. As the altercation was literally occurring on the doorstep, I told him to tell him that the disturbance was causing customers to fear leaving the building. Was I afraid? No, but I knew it would get the police to come. Not even 30 seconds later an officer showed up. Mind you this was the 7-11 across the street from our local police station. They could have WALKED across the street in the time it took them to drive.


BS


> You know who real heroes are though, our military servicemen, and fire-rescue, and EMT personal.
> 
> I work at DD part times where we give 50% discount on items to officers. I hate it, because to me it disrespects everyone else who serves our country.


So give them a discount too.  The DD in my area gives anyone in uniform a discount along with nurses and teachers with valid ID



> My family has police


Im sure they are so proud


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## Grenadier (Apr 24, 2012)

Zenjael said:


> There are many cops in this area, who are crooked. I've seen a drug dog beaten in front of me, and multiple people pulled over simply for racial profiling.



By whose account?  Internal Affairs' or the Jesse Jackson / Al Sharpton contingent?  



> When I was being escorted from court in Fairfax city for a minor drug charge in 2008, the accompanying officer unlatched my hand-cuffs, told me that I had the opportunity to run if I'd like, looked at me for a few seconds, smirked, and re-locked them.



Yeah, right...  If that really were the case, then why didn't you file a report with Internal Affairs?  That's certainly improper procedure, and I'm pretty sure they'd love to hear about it.  



> I watched a house party across the street where I live get harassed by officers, who waited outside, flashing their lights at the house for HOURS to try to lure people out. Some people abuse their authority, but hardly all. Fairfax County police are largely known as problematic for the larger populace here, but that does not mean all cops, or even many are bad. Some are, and they've made it hell for people in the area.



Was this the same house where you were busted for drugs?  



> Oh and if you really are so gung-ho about how awesome the police force is in this area, let me show you exactly how big a laughingstock we are online;
> 
> http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-sal (Incredibly disgusting story)
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19616_the-6-most-baffling-serial-crimes.html (task force on buttslasher #5)
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19134_6-wacky-misunderstandings-at-scene-grizzly-crimes_p2.html (#6)



Cracked.com?  You'd have better luck trying to claim that Wikileaks is really a front for the CIA.  Oh, wait...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/10/executive-order-on-government-secrets.html

(read the user comments...)



> You know who real heroes are though, our military servicemen, and fire-rescue, and EMT personal. I work at DD part times where we give 50% discount on items to officers. I hate it, because to me it disrespects everyone else who serves our country.



Their business, their choice.  You work for them, so it's up to you to obey company policy.  If you don't like it, go elsewhere.  



> I'm not returning to reply to this thread, because I have nothing but respect for our men in blue.



Telling tales that seem to have poor credibility doesn't seem to demonstrate that.


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## jks9199 (Apr 24, 2012)

Hey, everybody... One thing I don't want this thread to turn into is a "let's all gang up on Zanjael" thing.  That's why I put the whole second half of the post there.  Let's move on to those issues; advice and guidance about what happens when you call the cops, OK?


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 24, 2012)

OK, to get back on track...

Where I used to work, E911 calls came into the police dispatch center, not a generic 911 call center.  If they were for Fire or EMT, they got rerouted at that point.  It was OK to call 911 with a non-emergency if you didn't have the local number handy, but state "this is a non-emergency" right up front; it changes the nature of the call and kind of questions you'll be asked.

The first thing we want to know is WHERE are you?  If we know nothing else, we at least know where to go.  The other information is important, but without a location, we can't respond.  Usually E911 gives the address; cell phones may not, and they may get routed to the nearest 911 call center to the tower you're nearest to.  So say where you are first; if the call needs to be rerouted, you won't have to repeat yourself.

Don't keep shouting "Send someone now!  Send someone now!"  We are.  While I talk to you on the phone, the call is going out.  I type it in, the dispatcher gets it, prioritizes it, and assigns an officer.  As I get more information from you, I will update the call and they will see it in real time.  I don't have to get off the phone with you for an officer to be already on the way.

The next thing we need to know is what is the reason for the call.  We prioritize calls based on actual or potential danger to the public, so if there are injuries we need to know.  Weapons?  We need to know.  Alcohol or drugs involved?  We need to know.  If it's a traffic accident, how many vehicles, facing which way, are there injuries, are the vehicles blocking traffic, and what kind and color are the vehicles?  If people are involved in a crime, such as robbery or an assault, how many, what do they look like, how old, what skin color, how tall, are they still there, did they leave, if so, how did they leave and in what direction.  If you come home and find your house broken into, have you searched the house?  Do you think there might still be someone in the house and if so, why do you think that?  Do not start picking things up and straightening or taking inventory; leave everything as it is and leave your hands in your pockets until the police arrive.

Don't hang up unless we tell you to.  If you are calling from the scene, we may keep you on the phone until the police actually arrive.  You'll tell us they are at the door, and we'll tell you to hang up and go answer it.  We can talk about anything while waiting; you can tell me a joke.  You can keep me informed as to a developing situation as long as you're not in danger yourself.  We can just listen to each other hold the phone.

Do we respond to every call? Yes, we do.  It can take hours, depending on the nature of the call, but we respond to every single one.  If a citizen complains that we never responded to a call they made requesting contact, we pull the tape, a review is done, and if true, people lose their jobs.  It's that serious.

I will say that I have been on the other side of the phone many times (because I will call 911 for traffic accidents, suspected DUI drivers, motorist assists, people who look like they need assistance, etc).  I have experienced a few horror stories.  When I first got to Detroit, I saw a maintenance worker fall off the back of a moving truck and hit his head.  I called 911 and tried to explain where I was (across from Ford Field on Woodward, but I didn't know the cross street) and the 911 operator told me to stop bothering her if I wasn't going to give her the cross street and she hung up on me.  I called back and a different lady told me that the first lady told me to stop calling and SHE hung up on me too.  I filed a complaint with the mayor's office and no one ever responded to me (the mayor went to prison soon after that, so I guess he was busy).  But Detroit is really an exception, in my lifetime experience.

Do you want to know what our real priorities are?  These are how we prioritize calls from the public (not including calls from alarm companies, silent robbery alarms from banks, 

1) Officer Down.
2) Officer in need of assistance.
3) Felony stop, violent offender.
4) Traffic accident with injuries, blocking traffic.
5) Traffic accident with injuries, not blocking traffic.
6) Domestic disturbance with violence.
7) Fights, all types.
8) Domestic, no violence.
9) Everything else.

When we get calls, we dispatch officers.  If we don't have one and the call can wait, it waits, until an officer clears whatever he or she is working on (or dinner, restroom break, filling out paperwork, transporting prisoners, etc) and then we send them.  If it's urgent and a danger to the public, we might ask an officer to clear or we might ask for any officer in the vicinity to clear. They're all adrenalin junkies, so they'll clear for a something serious, always (that's how speeders and stop-sign runners get cut loose sometimes).  If it's an officer down, everybody goes; everybody.  Watch commanders and shift supervisors start grabbing vehicles and running to the scene.  Off-duty cops with 24/7 radios will respond in their POVs. Other agencies respond into our jurisdiction if requested.

All we ask for is that you stay on the phone with us, tell us where you are and what you need, as clearly and concisely as you can.  We'll ask the questions, you give us the answers.  We want to help you quickly as much as you want help to arrive quickly.

Dispatchers and 911 call takers are trained professionals.  They do a job that not many people can.  They have to stay calm and in control when people are freaking out at them on the phone, sometimes for good reason.  One dispatcher on her first day on the job taking calls by herself got a call from a little girl whose father had just killed her mother right in front of the little girl.  While she was on the phone with our dispatcher, the little girl's father went into the back yard, threw a rope over a tree limb, waved goodbye to his daughter, and hanged himself.  The little girl told the dispatcher "I think my mommy is dead, there is no more blood coming out of her."  Our dispatcher went home and never came back to work.  No blame on her, that's a tough thing to deal with, even for a hardened veteran.

We are there to take your calls, 24/7, 365.  We work every holiday, we fill every shift.  Weather is no excuse for not being at work, even when there is two feet of snow on the ground.  We'll stay on shift for days during hurricanes and floods and other natural disasters, sleeping on cots and having meals brought to us.  We'll take all your anger, your fear, and your general abuse on the phone to us and we won't hold it against you; we know you're dealing with something horrible; unlike you, we deal with it every single shift, so we know it's tougher for you than for us.  We don't ask for thanks, this is what we do and we feel like we're giving back by doing it.

But don't tell wild stories about cops who never come and don't care and who are crooked unless you have facts and can back it up.  You have NO idea what you're talking about, none.

NOTE: I don't work law enforcement anymore and haven't for a long time.  But I did it for a long time, and I was proud of what I did.  Cops, dispatchers, and 911 call takers are all members of the same team, as are all first-responders.  We're there no matter what; it's a point of pride.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 25, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Hey, everybody... One thing I don't want this thread to turn into is a "let's all gang up on Zanjael" thing.  That's why I put the whole second half of the post there.  Let's move on to those issues; advice and guidance about what happens when you call the cops, OK?



Good point.  

Zenjael - I hope you have taken note of the fire storm you have set off.  More importantly, why you set it off.  I'm not going to rehash all that.  I just want to encourage you to evaluate what you have said.  You have important things to communicate just as the rest of us.  The way you choose to communicate is important and is a skill that most of us have to learn, and practice.  I know I certainly do.  You are no different.  

When you speak in generalities, and are critical of something or someone, it is a good idea to be able to back up what you say.  In backing up what you say, it is time to stop speaking in generalities, or on rare occasions, explain why you can't be specific (perhaps proprietary information), then drop it.  Be careful about how much negativeness you demonstrate.  Even when being critical, being overly negative, and continuously, tends to turn people off.  You can communicate negative things without being overly negative.   Don't keep trying to communicate in generalities to defend generalities.  It doesn't come across well.

Watch how other people do that, and speak in general.  You can learn things.  You can gather I have a few years on you.  I am still making mistakes and still learning.  It's a human thing.  You are no different, so don't feel bad about it or give up on learning.  Don't be too quick to try and impress people every time you post, just for the sake of impressing.  When you have something to say, say it.  But don't constantly try to outdo people hoping to impress.  It may work for a while, but not on a constant basis.

Don't run away from us just because we have come down on you a little bit (it may seem more than a little).  Learn from it.  It looks like you have been on many different forums.  Maybe you just haven't found one that keeps your interest.  Or, maybe people on other forums are put off by how you communicate.  If so, I encourage you to evaluate yourself and learn from it.  Or learn to live with it, which doesn't sound like fun.  But only you can decide that.  

You have the advantage here in that most MA who attain a black belt have also been teaching lower belts.  You learn things when you teach.  It you continue after 1st Dan, you get better at learning and teaching.  If you open your own school, you have to get better or you won't be a success.  All that to say this is a place you can learn a lot from successful teachers.  Don't be too quick to run from that.  As a new martial artist, you gain more points by showing a desire and willingness to learn.  Right now it seems to many here that you only want to impress by appearing to be as knowledgeable and experienced as they are.  Some day you may be.  But wait your time to get there.  None of us got where we are over night.  We don't think you can or have either.

Learn to evaluate other people as they learn to evaluate you.  Hint: you don't do that by trying to out-impress.  Especially if it doesn't ring true.  You will run across people here at MT that aren't as good as you would wish.  Learn how to deal with them or ignore them and don't  try to communicate with them.  Be sure they are mostly in the minority, but they are here.  Spend the time to learn how to recognize and deal with them, but not always contest with them.  It's a good life lesson. 

I hope this helps you Zenjael.  Most people here would want to help you grow into the adult you want to be proud of.  But we can be impatient at someone who seems to want to teach us instead.  Maybe you don't, but you need to learn how not to give that impression.  If any of this makes any sense to you, you may have questions.  Don't hesitate to ask questions.  But learn how to ask as well.


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