# Does anyone else train improvised weapons?



## Drasken (Feb 12, 2013)

In all my discussions with other martial artists, I have been surprised to discover that few of them actually train to use everyday items as weapons. What surprises me further is that even fewer see this as being worth their time and effort.

I understand learning to use a sword. I myself quite enjoy kenjutsu and became quite good with a Katana. That being said, the real world applications of learning these weapons is limited as nobody carries a sword anymore.
And knives are great to learn as it is possible to actually carry one.

But there are many places that you can't legally carry a weapon, even a knife.  Now, that doesn't mean you won't encounter someone willing to break the law, and if someone attacks you They obviously have little respect for the law in the first place.
Now unarmed defenses against a knife or other weapons tend to be very risky, though possible. Improvised weapons could help to even the playing field. And being trained is always better than wildly swinging, especially against someone that knows how to use the weapon They are threatening you with.

So my question is, how many people here train improvised weapons? Why or why not?


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## Cyriacus (Feb 12, 2013)

I do, but not in any training format. I just make it a thought exercise to mentally weaponize everything and anything and everything.

Why? Because why not. Im sure theres a better reason than that, but ive conducted this thought experiment prior to any form of real training. Now its just a thing i do. I cant actually remember the original reason.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 12, 2013)

Drasken said:


> In all my discussions with other martial artists, I have been surprised to discover that few of them actually train to use everyday items as weapons. What surprises me further is that even fewer see this as being worth their time and effort.
> 
> I understand learning to use a sword. I myself quite enjoy kenjutsu and became quite good with a Katana. That being said, the real world applications of learning these weapons is limited as nobody carries a sword anymore.
> And knives are great to learn as it is possible to actually carry one.
> ...



Firstly, it needs to be understood that not everyone trains for the same reasons, nor are all systems trained with the same ideals or purpose. A Kendoka, for instance, has no need for anything like improvised weaponry... however it suits Krav Maga's approach perfectly. Within our system, it's a fairly common thing, so yeah, I do, but there needs to be more strict, formal weapon training first, so that you can identify and recognize principles and approaches to be applied.

Out of interest, which Ryu of Kenjutsu have you studied?


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## Cyriacus (Feb 12, 2013)

I cant edit my post, so i have to reply twice.

I have recalled my original reason, and it still stands, sort of.
Weapons are harder to defend against in most cases.
Weapons can be used to do some things more effectively or reliably than your limbs.
Weapons are everywhere.

The only real change over the last few years is exactly how different weapons can be used, and what the most consistent uses for them are.


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## Instructor (Feb 12, 2013)

OP,

Well kind of...

In essence we teach fundamentals with various basic weapons.  A rigid thing this long (stick), a rigid thing that long (cane), etc.  A flexible thing this long a flexible thing that long.  A pointy thing and an edged thing.

It's important to stress that there is little difference practically between something one might call a weapon and something that has similar characteristics and is lying about.

One of the nice things about our style is that you can do much of it with something in your hand and it simply increases your range and power.  So we aren't having to make a weapon a special lesson necessarily but simply demonstrate that this technique looks like this when you incorporate a cane or whatnot.


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## Blindside (Feb 12, 2013)

Yes, regularly.  
As a Filipino martial art we spend most of our time training knife and sword (machete type) and stick but also have two handed weapons (staff, axe, axe handle, baseball bat, whatever) as part of the curriculum.  My intention and what I try to get across to the students is that it is all of these should just be representatives of broader spectrums.  Knife in reverse grip translates fairly well to anything relatively short and pointy (pen, fork, or just about any fistload), the machete/stick training translates well into just about any impact weapon (hammer, wrench, whatever), two handed weapons is pretty self explanatory.  Two points I haven't spent much time on is flexible weapons and improvised shields, both of which I hope to remedy over the next year.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 12, 2013)

I believe that the basic weapon defense skills can be transmitted from one weapon to a similar one. That's how weapon defenses can stay through different eras while still be viable. Also, a lot of the 'improvised' weapons will change constantly depend on whats popular, what people use a lot, whats outdated etc. so making a science out of how to properly use and defend each new improvised weapon wont be all that fruitful. At the same time, the mental exercises like Cyriacus said can be both useful and fun, I like doing them when im bored XD


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## Instructor (Feb 12, 2013)

Blindside said:


> Yes, regularly.
> As a Filipino martial art we spend most of our time training knife and sword (machete type) and stick but also have two handed weapons (staff, axe, axe handle, baseball bat, whatever) as part of the curriculum.  My intention and what I try to get across to the students is that it is all of these should just be representatives of broader spectrums.  Knife in reverse grip translates fairly well to anything relatively short and pointy (pen, fork, or just about any fistload), the machete/stick training translates well into just about any impact weapon (hammer, wrench, whatever), two handed weapons is pretty self explanatory.  Two points I haven't spent much time on is flexible weapons and *improvised shields*, both of which I hope to remedy over the next year.



An Improvised shield saved my life.  In my humble opinion it's better than a number of fancy techniques, particularly against an edged weapon.


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## Blindside (Feb 12, 2013)

I saw this vid last week, nice use of improvised shield and improvised weapon.


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## chinto (Feb 12, 2013)

the video in the last post is why the Okinawan arts that teach Kobujitsu/kobdo teach the traditional Okinawan weapons.  they generalize from pens and such to broom handles and shovels.  from canes to bricks..  also generalize to things like edged  weapons beyond the ones in the system.


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## Drasken (Feb 12, 2013)

Great replies. I believe one of you asked which ryu of kenjutsu I practiced, and I'm going to be completely honest and tell you that I don't remember. It was offered by one of the Aikido instructors as well as iaido. This class was very similar to the kendo taught in Aikido class, but more geared to using the sword as a weapon, notjust to see the correlation between the unarmed and sword movements in our style.
It was quite a while ago that I moved away from this school, and only took classes there for a little over a year unfortunately. I will try to contact my friend however and get that info.

As far as the rest of the conversation goes, I think each of you have given great replies. I look forward to further conversations. 

I myself have focused on use of improvised weapons because two of my teachers were military and They insisted on it. Being young, I admit I was more interested in swords and shuriken. But I still learned it. One day about 4 years ago I was in a bar and two guys pulled out knives. Using improvised weapons saved my life and now I would insist on my students (when I am certified and feel qualified to teach) learning it.

I do admit though, a quick mine could use traditional styles to apply to improvised weapons quite easily most times.


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## mook jong man (Feb 12, 2013)

One exercise we like to do occasionally is to use a focus mitt as an improvised shield against a training knife.
The mitt is held with two hands , we block and redirect the knife attacks and then strike the face usually with the edge of the mitt.
Out in the real world you might be able to use a similar sized and shaped object like a purse , hand bag , book etc.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 13, 2013)

In IRT we train them all the time.  Pens, rolled up magazine or newspaper, rock, etc.  Definitely some thing that needs to be explored for serious self defense!


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## Cyriacus (Feb 14, 2013)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> In IRT we train them all the time.  Pens, rolled up magazine or newspaper, rock, etc.  Definitely some thing that needs to be explored for serious self defense!


Paper! The one thing that in sufficient quantity (or creativity) can be a functional knife, a brick, a baton, or a strangulation device! Hooray for paper!


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## szorn (Apr 14, 2013)

As others have already mentioned, this ultimately depends on the goals /  objectives of training. If the primary focus isn't self-defense, the  need for improvised weapons would be low. Personally, I train and teach a comprehensive improvised weapon system for self-defense. It's based on universal skill sets and body mechanics that employ the same movement patterns with and without weapons. However, my two favorite "improvised" weapons to teach are ink pens and bandannas. The knowledge and skills gained from these two simple tools can be easily transferred to hundreds of other items.

Steve


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## harlan (Apr 14, 2013)

Do impromptu sessions in the hardware aisle while shopping for paint count? LOL!



Drasken said:


> In all my discussions with other martial artists, I have been surprised to discover that few of them actually train to use everyday items as weapons. What surprises me further is that even fewer see this as being worth their time and effort.
> 
> I understand learning to use a sword. I myself quite enjoy kenjutsu and became quite good with a Katana. That being said, the real world applications of learning these weapons is limited as nobody carries a sword anymore.
> And knives are great to learn as it is possible to actually carry one.
> ...


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## Em MacIntosh (Apr 17, 2013)

I've used my jacket to defend myself on more than one occasion.  I practice taking it off very quickly, I practice obscuring vision (throwing and smothering) followed up with strikes, I practice tying up a limb. I even practice using the buttons on the sleeve as a whip.  All methods I've used effectively and decided to train.  Another good one is a beverage if you're carrying one, particularly something scalding but a slush will serve as a distraction as well.  It might give you that split second you need to escape or get the upper hand.  Back up as you throw it and judge the reaction quickly.  I've felt safer with those two than I have with a folder or cudgel because they're familiar.  Pavement is also an improvised weapon you train any time you slam your sparring partner on the mat.


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## MJS (Apr 17, 2013)

Drasken said:


> In all my discussions with other martial artists, I have been surprised to discover that few of them actually train to use everyday items as weapons. What surprises me further is that even fewer see this as being worth their time and effort.
> 
> I understand learning to use a sword. I myself quite enjoy kenjutsu and became quite good with a Katana. That being said, the real world applications of learning these weapons is limited as nobody carries a sword anymore.
> And knives are great to learn as it is possible to actually carry one.
> ...



Yes, I train them and as a FMA student, I do a lot of what Blindside said in his post.  As for using a knife...closed, it's an effective weapon that can be used much like a kubotan.  Really, anything you pick up, can translate well to the stick and knife techs, found in the FMAs.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 17, 2013)

MJS said:


> Yes, I train them and as a FMA student, I do a lot of what Blindside said in his post. As for using a knife...closed, it's an effective weapon that can be used much like a kubotan. Really, anything you pick up, can translate well to the stick and knife techs, found in the FMAs.



And as Mike states those who train in the FMA's learn that when you pick up a blunt instrument it has these attributes, when you pick up instrument with an edge it has other attributes. 

As for personal, From rocks and tire irons, to tuna fish cans I have used, as well as lots and lots more. 



> Jayne Cobb :
> ... Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight ...


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