# A Revisit to USSD



## Satori

Trip Back to My Roots:
-An Intro class with USSD

DISCLAIMER: This is not intended to be a self-advertisement or a shameful exposition of my skills. I have several injuries, am relatively out of shape, and I'm a bit rusty. Even though I have 12 years of experience (4 of it with USSD when I was younger), I consider myself an average "Advanced" student. In addition, I have met MANY wonderful Shaolin Kempo practitioners and instructors, and this review is not meant as an insult to the style, but rather the practices of the organization in question.

EDIT:  I wasn't sure where this went, so I apologize if it is in the wrong place.  Also, for those living in the midwest or outside of America, The United Studios of Self Defense (USSD for short) is a virus-like franchise that is slowly consuming the Martial Arts economy.  Their practices typically include year long unbreakable contracts, "Black Belt Clubs", huge testing fees, and monthly tuition in excess of $200 a month.

Without further ado...

--I leave the office to pile my car right next to the mass of moving vehicles clogging the 805 Freeway heading North. I leave at 3:30 pm, and at exactly 4:30 pm 12 miles north are achieved through bumper to bumper, breakdown inspiring traffic. Seeing that the traffic will continue clear on to my exit, I take an earlier one and head for the back roads. An ingenious idea, I thoughtof course, everyone else thought that too.

So, with a long line of cars ahead of me, I turn into a strip mall for a moment of sanity and perhaps a vanilla shake. As my eyes scan the parking lot, I am shocked to see a sign advertising the organization that started me on the path of martial arts, the style that started it allthe style that almost ruined me on organized martial arts for good.

Yes folksBonzai emblazoned boldly through the colored stripes of a horizon met my eyes, and memories of the United Studios of Self Defense and Shaolin Chuan Fa Kempo Karate (perhaps the stupidest set of words put together) assaulted my sensibilities. In a drunken haze (figuratively), I parked and drifted towards the welcoming open doors of the Dojo. No sooner had I stopped to pass gas did the Chief Instructor slide towards me like a well-oiled Rattlesnake. With an infectious grin and bubbling energy, he shook my hand furiously and DRAGGED me into the office.

Young guy, maybe a few years older than me (Im mid 20s), with a muscular build reminiscent of a boxer and a boy band haircut, the Chief Instructor oozed aggression and pushiness. He regaled me with stories about he was a Street Fighter and a Boxer before he saw the light and joined USSD. I asked him where he boxed at, and he replied with In TJ (Tijuana for all you non SoCalers) in the King of the Cage matches. Of course, I had trained with a BJJ guy who fought in KoC matches, and my step-grandfather is an ex-champion boxer from Mexico (Im not Mexicanits a long story) who trained Cage fighters all over California (including the Lions Den). 

Of course, he doesnt want to go into That Part of His Life and he cant seem to recognize any of the names I drop. Funny

Anyway, he easily transitions back to USSD, and begins to go into great detail about the age and posterity of the art of Shaolin Kempo. He explains how old it is, and how it is linked to the temple. To this I say Really? Thats funny, since all Kempo traces back through James Mitose, leading to William Chow, then heading to Ed Parker for EPAK. Of course, Kajukenbo was developed with the help of Emperado, who then trained Nick Cerio to black belt

As I went on, his eyes kinda glazed over, and he said, Wellsure, that is how Kenpo came aboutbut dont forget about our Sheeeowwwllliiiin roots. 

To which I reply, Oh! You mean the undocumented kung fu training Fred Villari claims to have mixed into the system? Seeing his composure starting to falter, I quickly change the subject to my lack of funding

which is his area of expertise. He asked what I could pay, and I said, Aww geezeIm really strapped for casheven $100 a month is too much

He immediately ripped into a spiel about how You get what you pay for, and that USSD is the best, and the best isnt cheapbut Ill cut you a deal. Ill give you the standard package for $125 a month. He then pulls out a calculator, and shows me a 6 point something number on it. This is the money per week extra youd be payingnot really that big a deal, is it? Hardly a sacrifice for excellent training in the BEST style.

Not only did he not take my verbal cuebut he raised my bet! I couldnt believe it, but I still smiled and agreed to come back in an hour for the Adult Class.

20 minutes to drive 1 mile (traffic still sucks) and another 20 minutes for nap time, and Im dressed in my black gi (with white belt..hehe) and on my way to my FREE CLASS. I arrive 45 minutes early, and ask to go warm up and stretch out. This is when I got the honor of watching the Chief Instructor give a Private Lesson.

Nowwhen I think of a private lesson, I imagine mealoneby myselfwith the instructorand me

Wellapparently Private Lesson simply means Group of Students getting a Lesson. There were 4 students in this Lesson, each of varying rank. 

So, Im thinking, Wowthis guy can really multi-task!

Not really.

The private lesson consisted of the instructor walking, telling them to work Kata, then walking out to talk on the phone for 15 minutes. Meanwhile, I was treated a kata demonstration by the WORST Brown Belt 1st Degree (right before black in Kempo) Ive ever seen. The guy was a college student, skinny as hell, and could not perform a good Kata. His techniques were sloppy and shaky, his stances were high and unstable, his *** always stuck out, his kiais were more like breathy Hi! than a soulful shoutand this was while he was performing a low rank required Kata!

When the Chief Instructor was out teaching, I found that he spoke with a very arrogant, deprecating, condescending tone. He subtly degraded his own students, adding little jabs like What is that? You call that a block? and So your groin is over there, is it? Nowthere is nothing wrong with a bit of teasingbut his tone was very wrong.

A point worth mentioning is that at the beginning of the lesson, he called for meditation. Apparently, even though I wasnt taking the lesson, I was also expected to meditate. WellI had forgotten this little aspect. Of course, the instructor looked at me, flipped his head and pointed his finger to the ground like he was commanding a dog. He chirped Get down!

NowIm all about the propriety and humility that goes into learning from someone. In all honesty, I am what youd call The Perfectly Polite Student. I obey instantly, dont question, dont goof around, I answer with Sir when askedhell, I dont make a frickin sound while training. But when he flicked his finger at me like I was some belligerent child, my composure dropped. I fell into Marine Kill Mode, and snapped my head up in his direction, shooting him briefly with my worst WHAT DID YOU SAY PRIVATE? glare. I didnt mean to, and such a gesture is very out of character for meI just couldnt help it.

I kid you nothe literally tensed, shifted back, and inhaled audibly. He then stammered out Well, you know how the rules goits just for a minute as he backed out of the floor and went into the office. My composure regained, I meditated like a good tool. I knew the rest of the lesson was going to be good.

Wellclass time! Only one adult (purple belt) and one teenager (orange belt) showed up. Class was assembled, all the bowing commenced, the Standard Meditation was called and finished, and we were lined up for our Special Warm Up. 

So, you ask, what is the BEST way to warm up a group of cold, stiff adult students? 

Why, elaborate deep crane stances, of course!

No jogging, no jumping jackswe immediately begin waving our arms around in Wing Blocks and getting down in Eagle Stances so low that my butt hit my heel. Of course, since Im cold, I IMMEDIATELY pull a groin muscle and end up hobbling for the 15 minute exerciseof course, I must simply be weak, as this is the BEST there is. Of course, he left us there for 10 minutes to go talk to some kid in the entry way.

I sucked it up and moved into the next exercise. He called this a Kung Fu Line Drill, which was basically a straight forward, short Kata. He showed this to us once full speed, along with a special Kung Fu Salute (which was actually the standard American Kenpo Salute!). He then left and had us Work on it alone while he talked on the phone for 15 minutes.

With 12 years of DAILY martial arts experience, I immediately picked up the kata and was moving through it easily. However, the other two students were suffering greatly. So, being the nice guy I am (and part time instructor), I begin to teach them the kata move by move, in a way that breaks down the set into easy to remember stages. Since the Chief Instructor was busy talking on the phone, he didnt seem to mind.

I, AS A POTENTIAL STUDENT WEARING A WHITE BELT, TAUGHT TWO OF HIS STUDENTS (ONE AN ADVANCED ADULT) A KATA THAT I HAD JUST LEARNED!

So he comes out, and begins to work on the Kata. Of course, he repeatedly forgets moves (of which I quietly remind him), changes his hand positioning, adjusts stances, etc I actually began to feel sorry for him, for I could just FEEL his embarrassment. In addition, he always had to add stupid little useless bits of advice, like Keep your stance low (even though Im taller than him and was LOWER than him) and Snap those punches (even though mine were echoing and his lacked proper alignment)

The class eventually ended, and we were dismissed. The students thanked me for my help, and the instructor BOLTED into the office. I put my shoes on, walked into the office, and shook his hand. He mentioned something about the Energy Being Better in his other classesbut no word of contracts, programs, tuition, gear No oily sales pitchesno canned responses

His entire body language said, I can not teach you anything and I dont expect you to stay here. 

I actually felt guilty.

All in all, he was a nice guy. The school was nice and clean, and the full trappings of USSD were in effect. His technique was good, and his enthusiasm was ok. Overall, Id say he was a good STUDENTbut he didnt have the right attitude, skill level, and people skills to be an instructor. I felt like he should have been training next to me while someone much older and better taught US.

All in all it was an interesting experience, and reaffirmed why I choose not to shell out $125 a month. 

I just might go to the Monday class, though

May you achieve
Satori


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## MJS

Mod Note-

Thread moved to Horror Stories

MJS

MT MOD


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Wow Satori... that was a beatiful story.

It is really encouraging to hear that the quality of USSD schools in So Cal is so much better than the ones up here in Nor Cal.   :idunno:


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## Gemini

I know, I know. I'm not kenpo, but I very much enjoyed the story anyway. Good thing there are no TKD schools like that.


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## Satori

It was very disappointing, to say the least.  In all honesty, I had really high hopes for this school.  Since I attained a brown belt there when I was younger, I've always wanted to go back and at least get to shodan.  I refuse to lose hope, though, as I continue to visit every USSD that I stumble upon.

When I was younger, my instructor charged half of what they charge now, was in his late 40s, and was a very patient and kind instructor.

Now, every "Chief Instructor" is my age (I'm mid 20s), a 1st through 3rd degree black belt, and usually has less than 6 years experience (probably even less teaching).  Young, inexperienced teachers aren't a bad thing...I also teach children part-time (not USSD material, of course...they'd probably sue me)...but they charge over $150 a month (minimum), while my company charges about $20 a month.

I find it really upsetting that my childhood style that I once adored is now ridiculously overpriced and represented by too many inexperienced practitioners who are obsessed with how much money they can suck from their students.

I'll keep searching, though...

"Some day I'll find my dojo..."

May you achieve
Satori


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## kungfulee

I heard damasco left anyone know if it's true? I read it on another forum www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?=19808&start=50 just go to search   USSD.


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## mantis

i went to 2 of those USSD in socal, and I did not like them a bit.
I wanted to go talk to the instuctors, and as i was walking in i looked at the students doing the same technique supposedly.  In reality each one of the students was doing his own thing living in his own world, the teacher standing there talking to strangers outside of the school leaving the students do whatevers!
It seemed they (or to be fair, that particular teacher) doesnt care!
so i understood the message and left.


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## mantis

im a bit confused here
was that in NorCal or soCal?
isnt the 805 in nor cal?
i dont get that part


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## AdrenalineJunky

mantis said:
			
		

> im a bit confused here
> was that in NorCal or soCal?
> isnt the 805 in nor cal?
> i dont get that part


 
I've never heard of the 805.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Interstate 805 is near San Diego.


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## mantis

lol
i confused that with 580 or 80 in SF
my bad!


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## kungfulee

Anyone here of damasco leaving USSD?


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## dianhsuhe

Satori-  Did you ever "find your Dojo"?

I hope you have


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## Satori

Oh no! My instructor found one of my rant threads!

::runs and hides::

I certainly have, as I'm sure you can tell.  The quality of instruction and the friendly environment won me over...and this is the only school I've been to where I have access to over a dozen instructors!

So long as I keep my job and can afford tuition, I'll be there for my routine pounding


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## kungfulee

What style did you pick?


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## Satori

By using the support gained from several members here and from MAP, I actually managed to track down and gain entrance into the El Cajon Kara Ho Kempo dojo.

Dian Hsuhe is one of my instructors now, as is Pacific Shore.  Seeing is believing


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## DavidCC

That is the best end to a "where should I train" thread ever


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## arnisador

Another *MartialTalk* success story!


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## Flying Crane

kungfulee said:
			
		

> Anyone here of damasco leaving USSD?


 
Was there a Scott Woods affiliated with this group in the San Francisco area a few years ago?


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## dianhsuhe

Satori is a heck of a nice guy and we are fortunate to have him join us.  He brings knowledge from several different arts and I plan to learn from him as well...

The really good news is that the El Cajon Dojo is Grandmaster's house and Satori will get a chance to eat Grandmaster Kuoha's cooking!  

Welcome Satori, may you find enlightenment!

James


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## Pacificshore

dianhsuhe said:
			
		

> The really good news is that the El Cajon Dojo is Grandmaster's house and Satori will get a chance to eat Grandmaster Kuoha's cooking!
> James


Satori....whatever you do, don't miss out on Grandmaster's cooking, or you'll regret it forever


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## Jonathan Randall

dianhsuhe said:
			
		

> Satori is a heck of a nice guy and we are fortunate to have him join us. He brings knowledge from several different arts and I plan to learn from him as well...
> 
> The really good news is that the El Cajon Dojo is Grandmaster's house and Satori will get a chance to eat Grandmaster Kuoha's cooking!
> 
> Welcome Satori, may you find enlightenment!
> 
> James


 
That is cool! 

Satori, you are in luck. Not many of us get the opportunity to study so closely with living legends.


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## kungfulee

How come mattera won't put villari as his instructor? www.ussd.com


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## Satori

DianHsuhe said:
			
		

> Satori is a heck of a nice guy and we are fortunate to have him join us. He brings knowledge from several different arts and I plan to learn from him as well...
> 
> The really good news is that the El Cajon Dojo is Grandmaster's house and Satori will get a chance to eat Grandmaster Kuoha's cooking!
> 
> Welcome Satori, may you find enlightenment!
> 
> James



I'm actually fortunate in that Dian Hsuhe has been remarkably patient and open with me, though I'm sure the pain will start once I have a bit more experience there 



			
				PacificShore said:
			
		

> Satori....whatever you do, don't miss out on Grandmaster's cooking, or you'll regret it forever



I remember the first time Grandmaster brought out banana bread.  I think it was my second class, and I didn't want to be rude, so I hesitated...just long enough for the other students to thoroughly engulf the entire loaf in under six seconds.  

Since then, I'm usually one of the first lined up at the loaf...and I brought my special Christmas loaf to work to eat during lunches.  He certainly is a good cook.



			
				Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Satori, you are in luck. Not many of us get the opportunity to study so closely with living legends.



I know!  When I first contacted them through email, I was given a very brief welcome to visit "the school".  I drove through the windy roads to get there...and was a bit shocked to see that the "school" was in fact a house!

I expected to train at a branch school...or maybe even at a YMCA that had an evening class....so you can imagine my surprise when the man himself, the guy I'd read so much about and had waited for a while to meet...actually came out and chatted with me!

Needless to say, I was a bit shocked and useless for my first week or so.  I've only been at the school for six or seven weeks...but I'm already used to having him around at training.  Grandmaster Kuoha is extremely approachable and friendly, and he really creates a warm training environment.



			
				KungFuLee said:
			
		

> How come mattera won't put villari as his instructor?



Bad blood?  An eagerness to not be associated with him?  Some type of legal clause that prevents the lineage from publicly being traced to him?  Your guess is as good as mine.


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## kungfulee

satori, did you ever ask your instructor about villari?


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## patroldawg27

Nice post on the USSD you visited. I started at one when I was younger...well it was a Villari's then a USSD then out of business. Our school now is housed in Demasco's old BB training center in CT. He used to live not too far from me. As for the whole Villari/USSD topic in general....well, so as not to get banned and the whole my mother says if you don't have anything nice to say....I'll leave it alone.


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## Tiger@heart

Satori, check out the Oceanside dojo in North San Diego county. He's awesome - 4th degree, been training since he was a kid, really friendly, not all about the company...
Here's his site:
www.oceansidekarate.com


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## Tiger@heart

I don't believe DeMasco left the company.


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## Tiger@heart

This is SO SAD. Oceanside or Encinitas would be my top recommendations in San Diego county. All the other dojos have the academy newbies who probably got their black belts in a year.


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## skinnyninja

Tiger@heart said:


> Satori, check out the Oceanside dojo in North San Diego county. He's awesome - 4th degree, been training since he was a kid, really friendly, not all about the company...
> Here's his site:
> www.oceansidekarate.com


 
I would stay away from any of these mcdojo's.Especially ussd.

Theres real kung fu out there you just have to look.


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## TCBA_JOE

I got to meet Damasco a couple of times. His HQ dojo or w/e is in my hometown. A little arrogant for my tastes.

As for him leaving USSD, I don't think so. the lastest issue of Black Belt has him as being the east coast director for USSD.

My brother's Kempo sensai was once a USSD instructor, but left over McDojo like issues.


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## Hand Sword

Satori,

I'm sorry that you had to experience that. But, I'm glad for the happy ending!


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## dianhsuhe

I have not seen Satori in awhile but I hope he stays with Kara-Ho Kempo.

Nick-  WHere u at?


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## Mariachi Joe

I have read many of the horror stories about USSD and as a current student at USSD thought I'd throw in my two cents.  I have been at USSD for a year now and am a blue belt.  I wont deny that a lot of the McDojo's qualities are there, I recently went to a USSD tournament where my old sparring partner who joined USSD's instructors academy a few months ago and is probably a brown belt ( as a jr instructor he has to wear a red belt and is not allowed to reveal his rank until he gets his black belt ) walk all over the other jr instructors, some of whom were 1st dans.  Now don't me wrong he is a good figther with a military background, I learned a lot sparring with him and from the advice he gave me, and I miss sparring with the guy, but it was a bit disappointment to see that I could give the guy more of a challenge than the other jr instructors.  I also think USSD charges a lot more than they need.
That having been said though, my instructor pushes me during every class and I have never left a belt test without my gi caked in sweat and breathing heavy.  My instructor expects a lot out of me and even held me back from a belt test because he felt my attitude wasn't right at the time.  I like my instructor and am learning a lot from him and he is the reason I've stayed with USSD as long as I have.  Bottom line is there are a lot of crappy instructors at USSD, but there are also some really good ones, and the style itself is pretty good since it is essentially the same as what Fred Villari teaches which is very similar to what Nick Cerio taught.


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## dianhsuhe

Joe- Glad you are benefitting from the training...My experience with USSD left me embarassed to admit training with them---My instructor was great, and it was worlds better than the TKD studio where I had previously trained, but in the end I realized that USSD is a McDojo designed to create cash-flow, and their lineage (which I personally care about) is VERY SHAKEY the way it was presented in the manual at that time-  

Thankfully I am now in a REAL Kempo system.


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## exile

dianhsuhe said:


> Joe- Glad you are benefitting from the training...My experience with USSD left me embarassed to admit training with them---My instructor was great, and it was worlds better than the TKD studio where I had previously trained...



dianhsuhe---just out of curiosity, what were the problems with your TKD school that you were alluding to?


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> I have read many of the horror stories about USSD and as a current student at USSD thought I'd throw in my two cents. I have been at USSD for a year now and am a blue belt. I wont deny that a lot of the McDojo's qualities are there, I recently went to a USSD tournament where my old sparring partner who joined USSD's instructors academy a few months ago and is probably a brown belt ( as a jr instructor he has to wear a red belt and is not allowed to reveal his rank until he gets his black belt ) walk all over the other jr instructors, some of whom were 1st dans. Now don't me wrong he is a good figther with a military background, I learned a lot sparring with him and from the advice he gave me, and I miss sparring with the guy, but it was a bit disappointment to see that I could give the guy more of a challenge than the other jr instructors. I also think USSD charges a lot more than they need.
> That having been said though, my instructor pushes me during every class and I have never left a belt test without my gi caked in sweat and breathing heavy. My instructor expects a lot out of me and even held me back from a belt test because he felt my attitude wasn't right at the time. I like my instructor and am learning a lot from him and he is the reason I've stayed with USSD as long as I have. Bottom line is there are a lot of crappy instructors at USSD, but there are also some really good ones, and the style itself is pretty good since it is essentially the same as what Fred Villari teaches which is very similar to what Nick Cerio taught.


 
Joe I am glad your happy with your training with ussd. I too have the rumors of damasco leaving ussd but I dont believe it.
I thought the prices themselfs were to high to and when I ran a school for ussd my competition had a a lot more students and nicer cars than I did.

Joe tell your friend he'll never be able to own a ussd school 100% and he should go with someone else. ussd schools cost $140,000 and you get only 40% of the profits.


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## Mariachi Joe

USSD charges alot, but my instructor is willing to work around my schedule, so that if I can't make a class he lets me make it up at another time so I always get what I paid for.  I'll let my buddy know what you said about owning a studio with USSD, I'll admit I have no idea how they run their business.  One thing I did notice is that shortly after he became a sensei we would still spar but I think he was discourged from doing so because we don't spar anymore.


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## Mariachi Joe

The rumors I heard where that Prof. Mattera was leaving to spend time at the Shaolin temple and was going to leave Demasco to run USSD as Grandmaster.  Just a rumor I heard.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> USSD charges alot, but my instructor is willing to work around my schedule, so that if I can't make a class he lets me make it up at another time so I always get what I paid for.  I'll let my buddy know what you said about owning a studio with USSD, I'll admit I have no idea how they run their business.  One thing I did notice is that shortly after he became a sensei we would still spar but I think he was discourged from doing so because we don't spar anymore.



Their business is not run vary well in my opinion.    All the money goes to the top with none to the instructors.  Plus you cant own the dojo 100%.

Your friend might want to check out www.shaolinkempo.com    It's run by 
 Shihan Tom Ingargiola 9th dan. He's from fred villari's shaolin kempo. wwwvillaristudios.com  And runs his own shaolin kempo schools.  He'l let you own the dojo 100%.
USSD are very good sales man so tell him to watch out for any tricks.   

He will notice most instructors there dont have nice cars and are over worked.  You have to be there at 11:30 tell 9to9:30 and you get paid 300 a week no taxes taken out. So you have to pay more at the end of the year. Try raising a family or having life on that kinda pay.
So your really only making 200 a week. And working 50+ hours a week.
Most instructors quit after afew years because they cant make any money.

You have to buy $750 worth of black belt manuals a month from ussd regardless if you sign up 15 people or not.  

I dont know how good villaris is? But I hear their dojos cost $40,000 to $50,000 and you get to set your own prices and hours and keep all the money.  
That was one of my biggest problems with ussd is I'd have to pitch 10 people to get someone sign up for 185 a month.   And I'd never see any of that money myself.
I hope this helps.


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## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> The rumors I heard where that Prof. Mattera was leaving to spend time at the Shaolin temple and was going to leave Demasco to run USSD as Grandmaster.  Just a rumor I heard.



I heard he was retiring.   Look at charle mattera does it look like he works out much?   I dont think he's at the temple.


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## Monadnock

opcorn: 

...

...

:barf:


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## Mariachi Joe

Their business is not run vary well in my opinion. All the money goes to the top with none to the instructors. Plus you cant own the dojo 100%.

Your friend might want to check out www.shaolinkempo.com It's run by 
Shihan Tom Ingargiola 9th dan. He's from fred villari's shaolin kempo. wwwvillaristudios.com And runs his own shaolin kempo schools. He'l let you own the dojo 100%.
USSD are very good sales man so tell him to watch out for any tricks. 

He will notice most instructors there dont have nice cars and are over worked. You have to be there at 11:30 tell 9to9:30 and you get paid 300 a week no taxes taken out. So you have to pay more at the end of the year. Try raising a family or having life on that kinda pay.
So your really only making 200 a week. And working 50+ hours a week.
Most instructors quit after afew years because they cant make any money.

You have to buy $750 worth of black belt manuals a month from ussd regardless if you sign up 15 people or not. 

I dont know how good villaris is? But I hear their dojos cost $40,000 to $50,000 and you get to set your own prices and hours and keep all the money. 
That was one of my biggest problems with ussd is I'd have to pitch 10 people to get someone sign up for 185 a month. And I'd never see any of that money myself.
I hope this helps.

Helps a lot Shaolin Ninja, thanks


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## shaolin ninja 4

No problem anything I can do to help.


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## Mariachi Joe

I am not aware of there being too many places that teach Kempo/Kenpo here in Utah other than USSD.  Anyone know if there is anywhere that teaches Kara-Ho, Cerio, or American Kempo/Kenpo here in Utah.


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## IRO-Bot

Mariachi Joe said:


> The rumors I heard where that Prof. Mattera was leaving to spend time at the Shaolin temple and was going to leave Demasco to run USSD as Grandmaster.  Just a rumor I heard.



From what I heard from my Instructor, Professor Mattera won't ever leave Grandmaster deMasco in charge of USSD.  He's not business-oriented at all, which is why most of the east-coast schools are struggling, as he is the head of USSD-East.  After Mattera retires/dies/whatever, Shihan Paul Taylor will take over United Studios.


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## IRO-Bot

Mariachi Joe said:


> I am not aware of there being too many places that teach Kempo/Kenpo here in Utah other than USSD.  Anyone know if there is anywhere that teaches Kara-Ho, Cerio, or American Kempo/Kenpo here in Utah.



I saw an EPAK studio right across the street from Mr. Garvey's Studio in Riverton when I went on my Snake Test.  But that's a long drive.


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## IRO-Bot

[SIZE=-1]Here are some locations for Kara-Ho Kempo in Utah.  (I've been looking around, myself, I was surprised to see so many.)
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. Ogden
Sensei Jeff Hayes    Ph: (801) 458-3184
[/SIZE]
 [SIZE=-1]2. Salt Lake City
Shihan Chris Mendoza    Ph: (801) 944-3837
[/SIZE]
   [SIZE=-1]3. Heber City
Sensei Michael Darnell    Ph: (435) 654-1122
[/SIZE]
   [SIZE=-1]4. Orem
Sempai Pat Beachley 
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I found them here.
[/SIZE]


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Whoa, thanks man I had no idea there were any Kara-Ho dojos in Utah.


----------



## IRO-Bot

Mariachi Joe said:


> Whoa, thanks man I had no idea there were any Kara-Ho dojos in Utah.



Truth be told, I'm trying to get in touch with Shihan Mendoza... I would really like to check out Kara-Ho.


----------



## dianhsuhe

Shihan Mendoza is a physician and does not have a commercial school.  He is however our highest ranking Kara-Ho instructor at 6th Dan.  He is an amazing martial artist and one heck of a nice guy! 

Sensei Jeff hayes (3rd Dan) was my original instructor-  He does teach, but again not in a commercial setting. Most Kara-Ho instructors teach in a gym or garage type setting... Which is the best in my opinion! 

If you have any questions about Kara-Ho, feel free to ask!  And if I cannot find the answer I will ask Grandmaster Kuoha personally. 

Good luck in your search and keep us posted!

James


----------



## dianhsuhe

Exile-  During a 1 week period where I did not attend class, my girlfriend (19 years old-Receptionist at YMCA) had moved in with my teacher (TKD teacher 27 yrs old at YMCA).  Somehow I just could not bring myself to train with "them" after that.

This was 1990, today they are happily married, kids etc. and run a successful TKD school.  He never did apologize though---

james


----------



## IRO-Bot

dianhsuhe said:


> Shihan Mendoza is a physician and does not have a commercial school.  He is however our highest ranking Kara-Ho instructor at 6th Dan.  He is an amazing martial artist and one heck of a nice guy!
> 
> Sensei Jeff hayes (3rd Dan) was my original instructor-  He does teach, but again not in a commercial setting. Most Kara-Ho instructors teach in a gym or garage type setting... Which is the best in my opinion!
> 
> If you have any questions about Kara-Ho, feel free to ask!  And if I cannot find the answer I will ask Grandmaster Kuoha personally.
> 
> Good luck in your search and keep us posted!
> 
> James



I have plenty of questions about Kara-Ho.  Considering, I am looking for something *real* after I leave United Studios.  I want to know what you can tell me about the style.  I also want to know who I can talk to about studying in my area.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

IRO-Bot said:


> From what I heard from my Instructor, Professor Mattera won't ever leave Grandmaster deMasco in charge of USSD.  He's not business-oriented at all, which is why most of the east-coast schools are struggling, as he is the head of USSD-East.  After Mattera retires/dies/whatever, Shihan Paul Taylor will take over United Studios.



One of the reasons the easy ussd's are not doing well is Grand Master Fred Villari has 100 or so schools out there  www.villaristudios.com  .  Plus that's where shaolin kempo originated from.  There's a 5th degree on every conner.  Ussd can't open dojos down there with 1st degree's and charge $190 a month.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Some of the ussd dojos out here in Utah are run by brown belts.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Dianhsuhe I don't learning in a garage or gym, I'll learn in a parking lot if I have to.  What I'm wondering is can Shihan Mendoza or Hayes rank us and can we participate in open tournaments, will they recognize our rank.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> Some of the ussd dojos out here in Utah are run by brown belts.


 

Yeah I've seen that before.
They realy are blue belts because how fast they push you to brown in my opinion.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Yeah I've seen that before.
They realy are blue belts because how fast they push you to brown in my opinion.

IRO-BOT could probably shed more light on ussd's instructors academy, but by the sound of it it's a sink or swim scenerio where you get rushed through advanced techniques so that an orange belt is teaching a green belt.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> The rumors I heard where that Prof. Mattera was leaving to spend time at the Shaolin temple and was going to leave Demasco to run USSD as Grandmaster. Just a rumor I heard.


 

I just heard from my friend who runs a school in Vegas that charlee mattera moved there. He didn't goto the temple.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Mattera doesn't live at the temple he goes there for a few months out of the year to train.  He lives in SoCal last I heard.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> Mattera doesn't live at the temple he goes there for a few months out of the year to train. He lives in SoCal last I heard.


 
I heard he moved to vegas not china.   Look at mattera does he look like he works out?


----------



## Mariachi Joe

No, but to be fair neither does Samo Hung but look at what he can do.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> No, but to be fair neither does Samo Hung but look at what he can do.


 
True but I've never seen mattera do anything.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

I've never seen Mattera do anything, but my instructor says Demasco is really good.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> I've never seen Mattera do anything, but my instructor says Demasco is really good.


 
I've seen demasco move very good.  But he trains with a shaolin monk in new york.  Mattera probabley trains at Mcdonalds.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

I've seen demasco move very good. But he trains with a shaolin monk in new york. Mattera probabley trains at Mcdonalds.

Now that was funny.


----------



## Monadnock




----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Monadnock said:


>


 
Hey are you with Las Vegas ussd?

Didn't master black get arrested a few years back for going into another kempo school in vegas and beating up the guy?


----------



## Monadnock

Ha, no. I just thought the videos were funny, well disturbing. Trying to sell that stuff like it would actually work. Martial arts, can be great for self-confidence (false self confidence in the case of Partial Arts), but to think a kid is going to fight off an adult like that...it just irks me.

I don't know anyone in Vegas, but I am near the USSD capital of Keene, NH.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Monadnock said:


> Ha, no. I just thought the videos were funny, well disturbing. Trying to sell that stuff like it would actually work. Martial arts, can be great for self-confidence (false self confidence in the case of Partial Arts), but to think a kid is going to fight off an adult like that...it just irks me.
> 
> I don't know anyone in Vegas, but I am near the USSD capital of Keene, NH.


 
Have you ever stepped in to a ussd?


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

TCBA_JOE said:


> I got to meet Damasco a couple of times. His HQ dojo or w/e is in my hometown. A little arrogant for my tastes.
> 
> As for him leaving USSD, I don't think so. the lastest issue of Black Belt has him as being the east coast director for USSD.
> 
> My brother's Kempo sensai was once a USSD instructor, but left over McDojo like issues.


 

Wht did your friend leave?


----------



## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Their business is not run vary well in my opinion. All the money goes to the top with none to the instructors. Plus you cant own the dojo 100%.
> 
> Your friend might want to check out www.shaolinkempo.com It's run by
> Shihan Tom Ingargiola 9th dan. He's from fred villari's shaolin kempo. wwwvillaristudios.com And runs his own shaolin kempo schools. He'l let you own the dojo 100%.
> USSD are very good sales man so tell him to watch out for any tricks.
> 
> He will notice most instructors there dont have nice cars and are over worked. You have to be there at 11:30 tell 9to9:30 and you get paid 300 a week no taxes taken out. So you have to pay more at the end of the year. Try raising a family or having life on that kinda pay.
> So your really only making 200 a week. And working 50+ hours a week.
> Most instructors quit after afew years because they cant make any money.
> 
> You have to buy $750 worth of black belt manuals a month from ussd regardless if you sign up 15 people or not.
> 
> I dont know how good villaris is? But I hear their dojos cost $40,000 to $50,000 and you get to set your own prices and hours and keep all the money.
> That was one of my biggest problems with ussd is I'd have to pitch 10 people to get someone sign up for 185 a month. And I'd never see any of that money myself.
> I hope this helps.


 
I agree with everything that is said here.  I hated having to buy allllllllllllll those stupid manuals.  I had so many at one point, I could have created a second dojo next door out of all of them.  I also hated never receiving what I thought was my net worth, as far as a paycheck goes.  There would be weeks that I wouldn't get paid because the investor wasn't around and whatnot...so, since I got nothing, I felt worthless.  Sounds like the franchise thing is a great way to go, right?  Not really.  I would suggest checking into ANYTHING ELSE that doesn't make you pay franchise fees.  

I know for a fact that Fred Villari's organization charges a licsence agreement fee, which is only like 200 a month because you are using his name.  You can teach whatever you want in conjunction with the Villari Shaolin Kempo system.  You're independant but have the backing of an organization.  Or just go independant and keep all your money.  The choice is really yours.  Just remember, if you go independant, get reallllly good security cameras and watch your back.  I'm really serious about this last suggestion.  Bad things always happen to those that leave USSD and open up a studio by themselves.


----------



## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> I've seen demasco move very good. But he trains with a shaolin monk in new york. Mattera probabley trains at Mcdonalds.
> 
> Now that was funny.


 

I don't think that DeMasco trains with the Monk in NY, seeing as he actually runs his school in NH.  besides that, there is a grandmaster that trains there and was burned badly by DeMasco and I don't think that the monk would let DeMasco train there anymore as a result of that and Chinese tradition.  But, once again, my bitterness towards USSD might be showing.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> I agree with everything that is said here. I hated having to buy allllllllllllll those stupid manuals. I had so many at one point, I could have created a second dojo next door out of all of them. I also hated never receiving what I thought was my net worth, as far as a paycheck goes. There would be weeks that I wouldn't get paid because the investor wasn't around and whatnot...so, since I got nothing, I felt worthless. Sounds like the franchise thing is a great way to go, right? Not really. I would suggest checking into ANYTHING ELSE that doesn't make you pay franchise fees.
> 
> I know for a fact that Fred Villari's organization charges a licsence agreement fee, which is only like 200 a month because you are using his name. You can teach whatever you want in conjunction with the Villari Shaolin Kempo system. You're independant but have the backing of an organization. Or just go independant and keep all your money. The choice is really yours. Just remember, if you go independant, get reallllly good security cameras and watch your back. I'm really serious about this last suggestion. Bad things always happen to those that leave USSD and open up a studio by themselves.


 
I hated thoese manuals too!!  They were just a scam for ussd lazy masters to make more money. 
I've heard stories of ussd going after break away schools.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> I don't think that DeMasco trains with the Monk in NY, seeing as he actually runs his school in NH. besides that, there is a grandmaster that trains there and was burned badly by DeMasco and I don't think that the monk would let DeMasco train there anymore as a result of that and Chinese tradition. But, once again, my bitterness towards USSD might be showing.


 

Steve damasco burned someone NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
ussd would never burn someone over money right? 

USSD doesn't just care about money right?


----------



## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Steve damasco burned someone NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
> ussd would never burn someone over money right?
> 
> USSD doesn't just care about money right?


 
HAHAHAHA.  That's funny!  A master told me that "ussd's too greedy" and will not work with the organization for that reason.  once again, sound kosher?  i think not!


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> HAHAHAHA. That's funny! A master told me that "ussd's too greedy" and will not work with the organization for that reason. once again, sound kosher? i think not!


 

I am jewish and I agree. TOO GREEDY!!!!!!!


----------



## Gufbal1982

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> I am jewish and I agree. TOO GREEDY!!!!!!!


 

LOL!


----------



## Mariachi Joe

After hearing all of this I'm glad I didn't join ussd's instructor's academy.


----------



## IRO-Bot

Mariachi Joe said:


> After hearing all of this I'm glad I didn't join ussd's instructor's academy.


 
Wise choice.


----------



## Monadnock

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Have you ever stepped in to a ussd?


 
Would you recommend I do? I've peered through the window and that was enough.

Looks like a good kids program....not a martial arts program, but some kind of activity for kids.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Once I heard about the $15,000 price tag there was nothing Sensei Scott could say to talk me into joining.


----------



## Lisa

*MODERATOR NOTE:

Please heed this moderator note from Mr. Bishop found here.

Please take the time to review the rules and regulations of MartialTalk, specifically that MartialTalk is NOT a FRAUD BUSTING FORUM.

Any libelous comments will result in the user being suspended and/or removed from the forum.

Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.

Lisa Deneka
MartialTalk Super Moderator*


----------



## Gufbal1982

Lisa said:


> *MODERATOR NOTE:*
> 
> *Please heed this moderator note from Mr. Bishop found here.*
> 
> *Please take the time to review the rules and regulations of MartialTalk, specifically that MartialTalk is NOT a FRAUD BUSTING FORUM.*
> 
> *Any libelous comments will result in the user being suspended and/or removed from the forum.*
> 
> *Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.*
> 
> *Lisa Deneka*
> *MartialTalk Super Moderator*


 
No one is busting fraud.  It's only fraud if you don't get anything out of what you pay, and with their college you do get to go to classes with the Masters that are in charge of your particular territory.  No fraud here...


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> After hearing all of this I'm glad I didn't join ussd's instructor's academy.


 
You dont know how much time and money and headaches you saved yourself from.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Out of curiosity does anyone know how much ussd's black belt tests are these days?


----------



## 14 Kempo

Mariachi Joe said:


> Out of curiosity does anyone know how much ussd's black belt tests are these days?


 
Everyone is going to love this ... more to bash ... $500


----------



## Mariachi Joe

$500 is still a lot more than I think they should charge but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.  I thought it would be closer to a grand.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

By comparison how much are black belt test at epak, Villaris, or other places?


----------



## Cirdan

14 Kempo said:


> Everyone is going to love this ... more to bash ... $500


 
Those not spotting the red flags here almost deserve getting ripped off. :lfao: 

BB tests are frequently about $30 or free here. Schools with hand written diplomas from Japan or similar extra costs included can be $100.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Mariachi Joe said:


> $500 is still a lot more than I think they should charge but it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I thought it would be closer to a grand.


 
I actually paid it, but think it is rediculous ... who's the fool? My first black belt test was $100. Of course that was with FVSSD back in 1987.


----------



## John Bishop

I just had a black belt test, and promoted 2 people to black belt.  Their fee?  Pizza and beer for the 9 black belts on the testing board.  
They paid their monthly fees, and gave me 5 years of loyalty and hard work.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

John Bishop said:


> I just had a black belt test, and promoted 2 people to black belt. Their fee? Pizza and beer for the 9 black belts on the testing board.
> They paid their monthly fees, and gave me 5 years of loyalty and hard work.


 
As it should be. Congrats to your new blacks, Mr. Bishop.


----------



## Gufbal1982

14 Kempo said:


> I actually paid it, but think it is rediculous ... who's the fool? My first black belt test was $100. Of course that was with FVSSD back in 1987.


 
FVSSD charges $250 now.  USSD does charge $1000 is it's a China Trip or if they get the Monks to come out here.  They like to double the price of test fees.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

FVSSD charges $250 now. USSD does charge $1000 is it's a China Trip or if they get the Monks to come out here. They like to double the price of test fees.

Sounds like I'd have to take out a personal loan just to test.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Be careful, they hit me with a warning for my previous comment ... so, no comment


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Just so we can compare what do other places charge for their black belt test?


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> Just so we can compare what do other places charge for their black belt test?



Thats stupid!
Can't speak are minds or opinions?


----------



## Blindside

14 Kempo said:


> Be careful, they hit me with a warning for my previous comment ... so, no comment


 
It tells you what kind of organization you are in though....


----------



## Blindside

Mariachi Joe said:


> By comparison how much are black belt test at epak, Villaris, or other places?


 
The grand total income from all black belt testing done at our school in the last thirty years is: 0.0 USD.  If you double that figure you will get the grand total income from all underbelt testing in the past 30 years.

Belt testing fees are often a scam guys. Sorry.

Lamont


----------



## Mariachi Joe

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Thats stupid!
> Can't speak are minds or opinions?


 
how is that stupid?  I was asking a simple question so I could compare and contrast what the different studios charge for belt tests, what's wrong with that?


----------



## Gufbal1982

Mariachi Joe said:


> how is that stupid?  I was asking a simple question so I could compare and contrast what the different studios charge for belt tests, what's wrong with that?



It's not...I think he was referring to 14 kempo getting a warning...


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Gufbal1982 said:


> It's not...I think he was referring to 14 kempo getting a warning...


Yep. 
Nothing about you joe.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

shaolin ninja 4 said:


> Yep.
> Nothing about you joe.[/quot
> 
> Guess I misread your post, no harm done


----------



## Gufbal1982

Now, I have never administerred a bb test, but have done lower ranking tests.  How long of a test do you think is appropriate and how long do you think that person should hold the rank for before testing again?


----------



## Jdokan

Gufbal1982 said:


> Now, I have never administerred a bb test, but have done lower ranking tests. How long of a test do you think is appropriate and how long do you think that person should hold the rank for before testing again?


Test tiime should be in my opinion based upon how long it would take the instructor to review all the material that they require to attain Black.  My Shodan was 6 hours...started at 9:00a went to 3:00p.  BUT there was hazing and tomfoolery that abounded....Was that time well spent??  Well it makes for "nice stories" to pass on.  I have run many BB tests over the years.  I feel 2-3 hrs is more than adequate, considering I typically see them every week...Now that I have moved out and provide personal training (not commercial) I believe I will try something I haven't been part of in the past..(I would like opinions on this please)Testing without advanced knowledge...My classes run 2 hrs a night, 2 nights a week.  I have gone back to basics with training requirements....WhatI needed is what they will need.  20 of everything: combinations 1-20, 20 clubs, 20 knives, 20 ju-jitsu's.  1-6 kata, 1-5 pinan.  I think I will make them wait for the Crane...I got it at green and reflecting back never appreciated what it contains....  To answer the previous question of cost??? My Shodan was $100 in 1978 my last test was $300 ( though I know some paid $500 that night) 2 yrs ago that was for my 6th...I plan to not charge for "MY TIME"....Am I breaking too many rules?  Don't really care...My plan is to provide simple, quality training...I charge less than $4.00 p.h. for semi-private (2 students to a private) that's less than I paid over 30yrs ago....I hope to keep my classes to less than 6 or 8 people ( right now there are 3). I guess it would be nice to have 30 people in a class, those were always fun...you could run really neat gauntlets with bigger numbers....BUT I think sometimes the students don't get the attention that is deserved...
 With regards to time & rank...again a judgement call..considering that time between ranks really means improvements and typically improvements come with "time" in the art.  Define time...If you're in the dojo busting your hump 4 nights a week 2 to 3 hrs a night I' say you should make black in 2 yrs...at that same pace...nidan another 2 yrs,  sandan 3 years later, Yondan in another 4-5 yrs. etc...Now again that is hingent upon how much material is neccessary for each rank....I came out of the USSD days in the mid 70's from the Peabody, MA school.  I know other schools had more material than me in some cases...Example I have combinations 1-45, my last form was circle of the tiger, of course numerous kenpo punch techiniques, etc...
WOW!!! Now I know what my wife means....."too much info"..sorry, BUT I am passionate about this art....
Peace!


----------



## marlon

If you are ready and willing to turn away students your price structure is great.  However, if your school grows so do costs.  I got caught that way and have considered closing my school several times.  the truth is there needs to be a balance btwn charging what your worth and being fair with your students.  But trust me loosing a quality instructor b/c of lack of money is not good for anyone nor the kempo community.  I kow most feel that charging money is somehow selling the art or selling out.  But the reality is loosing instructors because of lack of money is bad also.  I do not have a perfect solution only my experience trying to do it without considering money has made things very difficult...and yes i have a full time job and a wife and children who all want and deserve time and attention and also students who want and deserve timea and attention and my own training that deserves time and attention.  Money is in all of those equations.  Gouging sucks and selling rank is ridiculous (the last test i gave someone suggested that if i did not pass a certain student then i might loose them...my reply was i would close the doors forever before i gave an undesreved belt), so where does one balance things..if your job does not bring in huge amounts of money.  

my 2 cents
Marlon


----------



## Jdokan

Thanks Marlon..Appreciate the input....
Let me explain my instruction so as not to misinterpret things.....I started a barn for my daughter to get horses (changed her mind for now) while I was at it I decided to "go up"...(the footpring is 20' x 30') I added a second for my personal training area hoping I could entice one of my training partners to join me...
   We get together 2 nights a week.  My son wanted to continue his training but didn't want to go back to his Dojo so we started 2 nights a week.  Then a couple of his friends wanted lessons....
    WIth regards to charges...you are so right....you need to cover costs or the school will close, in my case I have an advantage.  I think the best business model is to have somebody at the desk non-training as a business mgr (I'm horrible..Igive away the store)  then the instructor out back.....I have heard those schools following that have done better...I don't know could be a load of hogwash....Reading some posts it is apparent that there are several schools out there that aren't having problems getting money....If the student is getting a good deal or thinks they're getting a good deal I guess that's fine...
Rambling sorry....
Again...appreciate the comments....


----------



## Jdokan

John Bishop said:


> I just had a black belt test, and promoted 2 people to black belt. Their fee? Pizza and beer for the 9 black belts on the testing board.
> They paid their monthly fees, and gave me 5 years of loyalty and hard work.


Power to you!!!!
    I have felt that way for years....


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Jdokan said:


> Test tiime should be in my opinion based upon how long it would take the instructor to review all the material that they require to attain Black. My Shodan was 6 hours...started at 9:00a went to 3:00p. BUT there was hazing and tomfoolery that abounded....Was that time well spent?? Well it makes for "nice stories" to pass on. I have run many BB tests over the years. I feel 2-3 hrs is more than adequate, considering I typically see them every week...Now that I have moved out and provide personal training (not commercial) I believe I will try something I haven't been part of in the past..(I would like opinions on this please)Testing without advanced knowledge...My classes run 2 hrs a night, 2 nights a week. I have gone back to basics with training requirements....WhatI needed is what they will need. 20 of everything: combinations 1-20, 20 clubs, 20 knives, 20 ju-jitsu's. 1-6 kata, 1-5 pinan. I think I will make them wait for the Crane...I got it at green and reflecting back never appreciated what it contains.... To answer the previous question of cost??? My Shodan was $100 in 1978 my last test was $300 ( though I know some paid $500 that night) 2 yrs ago that was for my 6th...I plan to not charge for "MY TIME"....Am I breaking too many rules? Don't really care...My plan is to provide simple, quality training...I charge less than $4.00 p.h. for semi-private (2 students to a private) that's less than I paid over 30yrs ago....I hope to keep my classes to less than 6 or 8 people ( right now there are 3). I guess it would be nice to have 30 people in a class, those were always fun...you could run really neat gauntlets with bigger numbers....BUT I think sometimes the students don't get the attention that is deserved...
> With regards to time & rank...again a judgement call..considering that time between ranks really means improvements and typically improvements come with "time" in the art. Define time...If you're in the dojo busting your hump 4 nights a week 2 to 3 hrs a night I' say you should make black in 2 yrs...at that same pace...nidan another 2 yrs, sandan 3 years later, Yondan in another 4-5 yrs. etc...Now again that is hingent upon how much material is neccessary for each rank....I came out of the USSD days in the mid 70's from the Peabody, MA school. I know other schools had more material than me in some cases...Example I have combinations 1-45, my last form was circle of the tiger, of course numerous kenpo punch techiniques, etc...
> WOW!!! Now I know what my wife means....."too much info"..sorry, BUT I am passionate about this art....
> Peace!


 

How long were with Villaris?  Why did you leave them or are you still with them?  What was your black belt test like?  What was your 6th dan test like?


----------



## Jdokan

I was with VIllari unitl the Organization broke apart...
My BB test was hell 6 hours of hazing, physical abuse and of course ALL your material....It was a good test ( I think) testing emotional, physical and spiritual parameters.....My 6th was 3 hours..technique and fighting that was it no hazing, etc.....just the material over and over and A LOT of fighting......


----------



## LawDog

When an orgainzation does not know how to properly evaluate the various rankings within a test their instructors will usually resort to giving just plain ole beatings.
I believe that , for impacting type systems, endurance should be included within the basics portion of the test.


----------



## alxnazario

I am currently a USSD student. I am curious about your dealings with USSD. Currently I have been approached to teach but was told that is would cost me "x" amount to learn to teach. Is this common in other styles or schools. I took 2 years of Ed Parker's Kempo in NYC and I never heard of this before. When I ask friends who have taken different styles I get various opinions. I am searching for wisdom on this matter. Thanks.


----------



## Hand Sword

Well...considering that everyone (or mostly) pays for instruction through the years, then ends up teaching, you end up "paying to be a teacher" anyway. However, as for the question as you put it....I am now hearing it more and more with organizations. It never used to be apart of things (or as much).


----------



## alxnazario

I have to say I am happy with my USSD school of choice on the east coast. Yes, the prices are high, but my instructor is an excellent teacher and the students are really good & the atmosphere is very conducive to learning. I hope that does not change.


----------



## Hand Sword

Best of luck to you. :asian:


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## alxnazario

Thank you...much appreicated. I do have a concern though and it's regarding paying to learn to teach. Does any system charge a student to learn how to teach?


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## Hand Sword

As I've said, it's more and more so now, and getting even more than that. I see teacher programs all over the place. You are right to feel the way you do. It comes down to really knowing the material, and executing it that way. That's where your focus should be. And that can take any amount of time, and should NOT be rushed, or have a time frame on it. Everyone grows at their own rate. As a consumer, don't be afraid to find another school.


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## alxnazario

Thanks...I am not afraid of finding another school. While I agree Karate is becoming more commercialized. I do enjoy what I have learned to date. And I know I shouldn't compare schools or styles but....when I was studing under an Ed Parker School, it took me two years to even think orange, which was fine to me. To progress there we only took group classes as far as I can remember while USSD offers private as well as group classes.

Here @ USSD I am already a purple belt in under one year, granted I learn fewer forms (not sure if that is a good or bad thing yet).

I noticed that while the same can be said of many students in my particular school I can honestly say these students are way better technically to other schools I have seen in different styles and even is USSD.

I guess I am at a cross roads and want to make sure that is USSD is charging to teach are other styles schools doing the same.


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## Hand Sword

Yeah, it is becoming the norm with some styles. Others will catch on eventually. Same with contracts, bill fees taken from credit card accounts etc.. There was a time that was new too, now pretty common. Same for these programs too. If your happy, that's all that counts. Especially, if you want to teach for them, or teach eventually.


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## alxnazario

Thank you so much. You gave me want I was looking for, guidance and wisdom for my own future. Not sure if I am going to teach there because to be quite honest I want to learn lots more and was use to learning 24 different DM's before proceeding to my next belt. So who knows what the future holds. I just what to be the best I can be. If I teach and I am not at my top level how can my students fare any better. The student should always surpass the Master. How else do we move forward into eternity?


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## Hand Sword

With that mind set...you are well on your way! Good luck!


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## Empty Hands

alxnazario said:


> Thank you...much appreicated. I do have a concern though and it's regarding paying to learn to teach. Does any system charge a student to learn how to teach?



You aren't really paying to teach, you are paying to open up your own USSD franchise.  This sort of setup can produce poorer results in the instructors.


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## MeatWad2

alxnazario said:


> Thanks...I am not afraid of finding another school. While I agree Karate is becoming more commercialized. I do enjoy what I have learned to date. And I know I shouldn't compare schools or styles but....when I was studing under an Ed Parker School, it took me two years to even think orange, which was fine to me. To progress there we only took group classes as far as I can remember while USSD offers private as well as group classes.
> 
> Here @ USSD I am already a purple belt in under one year, granted I learn fewer forms (not sure if that is a good or bad thing yet).
> 
> I noticed that while the same can be said of many students in my particular school I can honestly say these students are way better technically to other schools I have seen in different styles and even is USSD.
> 
> I guess I am at a cross roads and want to make sure that is USSD is charging to teach are other styles schools doing the same.


 
are you paying the 10k to learn to teach?  if you are, i would say to run away.  that's way too much.  that's not including what you'll pay when you want to buy your own studio.  true, some studios are charging to to learn to teach, but i doubt it's 10k.  try and post on some other boards and see what other places charge.


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## MeatWad2

Empty Hands said:


> You aren't really paying to teach, you are paying to open up your own USSD franchise. This sort of setup can produce poorer results in the instructors.



no, you are paying to learn how to teach.  it's 10k to get into the academy.  there's no guarantee that you'll get a school.  schools are 250k for 50%.


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## ninjatruth

MeatWad2 said:


> no, you are paying to learn how to teach. it's 10k to get into the academy. there's no guarantee that you'll get a school. schools are 250k for 50%.


 

This is the sad truth.  10k-15k for the ussd academy and $250,000 for a school you can't own 100%?   Thats reta%$#!!   You could open a dojo for $20k-30k without all the crap and the profits going to fat cats who never step foot in your door to help you teach.


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## Twin Fist

so true


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## Matt

I paid to learn to teach. I can't put an exact dollar figure on it, but it was probably more than 10k. It was a graduate program in physical education. At one point I paid 3.5K to teach full time for free for 16 weeks. It's called student teaching. Every accredited teacher prep program does this. But, I did get a Teaching Certificate at the end. I think you have to put things in perspective.


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## msmitht

USSD sucks...at least the ones in so cal when I lived thre. Quit and ask for a refund. You can get out of any contract if you were stupid enough to sign one. Go find a boxing gym/TKD school (Not ATA)/BJJ school and be happy.


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## Franc0

I have 2 new students, a father and son who started with me about three weeks ago. The father was a USSD student for almost 2 years. I asked him to show me what he learned and he was simply atrocious. My 13 yr old son kicks the heavy bag twice as hard as he does, and this guy outweighs my boy by almost 100 lbs. 
Whats worse is that his son is progressing way faster because the father simply cannot grasp our concepts without reverting back to his USSD moves. I'm not giving up on the dad, he's just now learning to relax and breathe instead of yelling "HAH!" at every move and holding his breath in between.
One night the father asked me if I wanted to see more of the "moves" (SD techs) he learned at USSD, so I said sure, but he had to do them to my 13 yr old son who will give medium resistance. As you might have already guessed, nothing worked due to the non-compliance. I said "See? You can learn from every style out there, like what NOT to do" .
By the way, our group pays month to month tuition, no contracts, no testing fees and once you reach black, you no longer have to pay tuition.

Franco


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## Tames D

msmitht said:


> Go find a boxing gym/TKD school (Not ATA)/BJJ school and be happy.


 
Are you saying a person can walk into any and everyone of these schools in the world and find quality instruction? bs...Poor quality is across the board in ma schools. 
But having said that I do agree with you on the ussd schools in general.


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