# Modern Arnis or Karate



## Fair Xchange (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi all.....
Im am currently involved in karate (Wado-ryu), but i am thinking about shifting lanes to Modern Arnis - more precisely 'Kombatan'.
The reasons for this is i am looking for a martial art that is more straight forward and uncomprimising when it comes to selfdefense. Futhermore - when i first started Karate it was for the simple reason of being able to defend myself, i am now starting to doubt the effectivness of the tecniques i am taught- in a selfdefense situation. I have searched the net for information on Kombatan but haven't been able to find any information on the selfdefense aspect of the art. Now to my question 
Is Modern Arnis more than stick and blade fighting? - does it have tecniques that can be applied for selfdefense in case you don't have a weapon in your 
hand? 
Thanks :asian:

Sorry if my english sucks


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## Flatlander (Jul 25, 2004)

You bet it does.  And the great part is you'll pick up on pretty quick, as you've had previous training.  One of the fundamental precepts of Modern Arnis is that there is a very real and apparent translation of techniques from cane to blade to emptyhand.  To sword and staff, for that matter.  Good luck in your training!


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## Guro Harold (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi Fair Exchange,

Welcome to MartialTalk!!!

The empty-hand aspect is a subsystem all unto itself in Filipino Martial Arts.  Thre are plenty of self-defense applications as well.

On a side note, I know at least two people who have studied Wado-ryu and the Filipino Martial Arts.

Take care,

Palusut


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## GAB (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi Fair Exchange, I am typing in the larger text for me and not you, FMA is great art I tried to find the Kombatan in the normal areas that I would look, I found zip, nada. I would not take anything that has not been around for awhile. If you can't find it then it is pretty new and I would look around for awhile before making the move. 

You could check with Danny Anderson he teaches his stuff from Remy Presas, you could find him, he is on this board alot. Arnis80 I have never taken any instructions from him but he seems like a good guy to me. 
I study Kali, Guro Dans stuff it is good you might check his website go to www.vivisimo.com type in arnis or eskrima or kali and it will have lots of information. It is the best and I have been around the search engines for quite a while. 

Warning the FMA is getting very popular so there are going to be some fly by night sticksters, go with the ones who have been around. I like the double, no empty hands at all, the double is my favorite, gives you good flow and tremendous work drills and If the instructor will let you work freestyle after you learn the first drills the better. 
Work out on the big bag and go for it, but don't be to hasty to jump in till you do some more investigation, We could discuss this all day but you need to start with the double, it trains both sides strong and weak both become better, If you do 25 with your strong side do 50 with your weak side.. 

You will become more proficient at any thing after learning the way I am saying..Make sure they teach you foot drills also, leg movements angles etc..,You can go the single after the doubles but not before..This is my opinion only others will have their,s. The path for you is just that, look in the mirror what do you see.. Regards G


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## Guro Harold (Jul 25, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Fair Exchange, I am typing in the larger text for me and not you, FMA is great art I tried to find the Kombatan in the normal areas that I would look, I found zip, nada. I would not take anything that has not been around for awhile. If you can't find it then it is pretty new and I would look around for awhile before making the move.


Kombaton is the style of Ernesto Presas, GM Remy Presas' brother.

Hi Fair Exchange,

Please also consider contacting MT member Datu Dieter Knüttel.  He is ranked in Kombaton as well as Modern Arnis as he had extensively studied with both brothers.  Also he holds European events frequently.

Please refer to this thread:http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15737

Palusut


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## Mark Lynn (Jul 25, 2004)

Fair Exchange

Where are you located?

Kombaton is the system of GM Ernesto Presas (GM Remy's younger brother) and he does have some students here in the U.S.A  some of them are on MT.  Master Julius Melegrito is GM Ernesto's web master here in the states.  GM Ernesto's system isn't as well known here in the states as it is abroad.  I've studied with both GM Remy and GM Ernesto and I'll be glad to answer any of your questions about the arts etc. etc.

Where are you studying Wado ryu at?  I studied it for about a year and a half although I think I learned more of a bastardized Shotokan more so than true Wado (or so I was told way back when in the late 80's).

Mark


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## Mark Lynn (Jul 26, 2004)

Fair Xchange said:
			
		

> Hi all.....
> I have searched the net for information on Kombatan but haven't been able to find any information on the selfdefense aspect of the art. Now to my question
> Is Modern Arnis more than stick and blade fighting? - does it have tecniques that can be applied for selfdefense in case you don't have a weapon in your
> hand?
> ...



Fair Xchange

Kombaton is a very self defense related system or art.  Much of what we worked in Hock Hochheim's courses in the early years, the Presas Arnis/Combative Arnis was inspired by GM Ernesto Presas (and GM Remy's Modern Arnis) but more so Ernesto's material.  Either system MA or Kombaton can relate to self defense.  Kombaton has more of a karate feel to it, while MA has more of a jujitsu feel or flavor to it.

Both systems have techniques that translate from stick to empty hand or to blade.

Time for bed.  If I can be of any further assistance please let me know.

Mark


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## GAB (Jul 26, 2004)

*Ok not so big but darker, Ok.. Thank you Mark and Palusut..*
*Palusut I see in Dans Avatar picture I also see person in this picture is the same, Is that you? I know silly question but one never knows..*
*I would like to talk to you more at some time in the future, Ok ??*

*I am new to board and have already been spanked and given red mark, please do not let that influence you.. I can only tell what is in front of me when I am on board, not like dojo, and what I see I like. Thank you. G *


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## Guro Harold (Jul 26, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> *Ok not so big but darker, Ok.. Thank you Mark and Palusut..*
> *Palusut I see in Dans Avatar picture I also see person in this picture is the same, Is that you? I know silly question but one never knows..*
> *I would like to talk to you more at some time in the future, Ok ??*
> 
> *I am new to board and have already been spanked and given red mark, please do not let that influence you.. I can only tell what is in front of me when I am on board, not like dojo, and what I see I like. Thank you. G *



Hi GAB,

Check your settings to see if your reputation system is on.  sometimes that color might mean that your rep system is off.

The common person in Dan's, Datu Puti's, DEArnis', Rich Parsons', and Paul Janulis' picture is the late GM Remy A. Presas.

Welcome to the board!!!

Palusut


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## Guro Harold (Jul 26, 2004)

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Fair Exchange
> 
> Where are you located?
> 
> ...



Hi Mark,

Fair Exchange's website is based in Denmark.

Palusut


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## MJS (Jul 26, 2004)

Fair Xchange said:
			
		

> Hi all.....
> Im am currently involved in karate (Wado-ryu), but i am thinking about shifting lanes to Modern Arnis - more precisely 'Kombatan'.
> The reasons for this is i am looking for a martial art that is more straight forward and uncomprimising when it comes to selfdefense. Futhermore - when i first started Karate it was for the simple reason of being able to defend myself, i am now starting to doubt the effectivness of the tecniques i am taught- in a selfdefense situation. I have searched the net for information on Kombatan but haven't been able to find any information on the selfdefense aspect of the art. Now to my question
> Is Modern Arnis more than stick and blade fighting? - does it have tecniques that can be applied for selfdefense in case you don't have a weapon in your
> ...



Welcome to the forum!!!  To answer your question, Modern Arnis is an excellent art.  It can blend well with pretty much every art out there, as well as be very effective by itself.  It does contain many empty hand techniques, and the weapon techs. can be applied empty handed as well, of course, with slight modification.  It contains many locking and controlling moves, which IMO, are very important to know, due to the fact that not every situation you're going to find yourself in, is going to warrant an eye gouge.

Mike


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## arnisandyz (Jul 26, 2004)

about Arnis OR Karate...your asking about this on an FMA board, thus opinions towards FMA will be biased.  If I'm trying to choose between a Chevy or Ford and go to a Ford site, what would be the answer?

If you ask the same question on the Karate board they would probably be biased towards Karate.  Karate can be a very effective art, but in my opinion and depending on the instructor, it can take years before you might feel comfortable in actually using the techniques in a self defense situation, if at all. This is not exactly a fault of the system, but perhaps the focus the school chooses to follow. Other aspects of the art in a commercial school are sometimes more important than real world training. That being said, Arnis is not immune to this disease either.  Whatever art you choose to undertake, be sure the school and instructors are teaching what YOU want to learn and don't blindly follow. To many times I have heard someone take an art, have a bad experience and then say style "X" is not good, and move on to another style.

Andy


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## Fair Xchange (Jul 27, 2004)

Thank you all for your reply's
Sorry for not informing you where i am from, my mistake.
The reason i am posting this question under FMA and not the karate forum is because i wanted some feedback from people who is into FMA and have an idea of the selfdefense aspect in Modern Arnis(kombatan). My problem is i do not have the time to practice both martial arts, so i have to choose. When i first decided to get into to martial arts(because i was attacked) i had my heart set on either karate or modern arnis. 
As metioned karate takes a long time to learn before you are able to use it in a selfdefense situation. 
Thanks again :asian:


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## Flatlander (Jul 27, 2004)

I have a question.  Would someone teaching Modern Arnis in Denmark suggest that they'd have trained under Datu Deiter?


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 27, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> I have a question.  Would someone teaching Modern Arnis in Denmark suggest that they'd have trained under Datu Deiter?



Flatlander,

Good Question.

I think if I remember correctly GM Remy Presas took Rocky with him up in Scandanavia. I also know that Datu Hartman also travels over in Scandanavia, adn I would not be surprised if someone had gone to see or train with Datu David Hoffman while he was in England. So, no matter how you cut it, they trained with someone, and it most likely would be Datu Deiter, just not sure in this case.

:asian:


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## Flatlander (Jul 27, 2004)

Fair Exchange, how far are you from Germany?  If you want to train Modern Arnis, (which, in my extremely biased opinion would be a good choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), I would reccommend contacting Datu Deiter Knuttel and trying to get some training in with him.  Best to get your training from the most qualified if you can, IMHO, provided that it's possible.  Even if you can only see him occasionally.

Datu Deiter's website : http://www.abanico.de


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## Mark Lynn (Jul 28, 2004)

Fair Xchange

How did you hear about Kombaton?  I mean is there an instructor or some way for you to get instruction on the system in your area?  This is why I was asking before to see if you were in the states or not.  I'm not familar with GM Ernesto's instructors over in Europe although I believe he has a pretty good support structure there, well much more prevelant than here in the states.

Several people have mentioned Datu Dieter, he would be a good choice.  He trained with GM Ernesto for something like 15 years before he switched to Modern Arnis under GM Remy.  So Dieter has a mixture of the two systems to offer and his ranking program looks real good from what I have seen from his tapes. 

Kombaton has a very good self defense aspect to the art.  *For me * I found Kombaton to be a whole lot more applicable to SD than Modern Arnis in its techniques and structure than I have with Modern Arnis.  That being said I have found Modern Anris going a whole lot deeper in certian things than Kombaton as well.  Both arts compliment each other.

So if I were to choose between either system from a strictly self defense standpoint and I could find instruction *from qualified instructors * in both systems than Kombaton would be my choice all factors being equal.  However either system will fit your needs.  If you are an instructor already (I haven't seen your web site) than you already should know some SD related material (Concepts, tactics, whatever) and either system should do.

with repsect
Mark


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