# Evolution f Hapkido



## FearlessFreep (Sep 3, 2006)

The other side of the question about 'traditional' Hapkido is the idea of the changes in Hapkido over time.  A few things I've seen or read have led me to the belief that one core aspect of Hapkido is that there is an intentional effort to study other arts and determine how to counter the moves of that art.  One example I read of was  the development of counters to 'boxing' style punches that were fast out and in, versus what at the time where traditional punches (at least in KMA and JMA, I think) of hard, straight arm punches).    Another was the development of the "Angular Kick" which was designed as an extension to the axe kick to counter Taekwondo tactics of moving off line as an evasion.

What I'm curious about is if Hapkido has continued this practice to this day and have their been developed counter actions and strategies against arts that have gained in popularity, such as shoots and clinches from BJJ and other grapppling/ground arts.  I guess with the ascedency of the popularity of MMA events, has Hapkido continued to adapt to respond to these developments?   If so, how?  If not...why not?

Thanks


----------



## Brad Dunne (Sep 3, 2006)

I'll attempt to pose an answer, from at least our training standpoint. Hapkido is an ever evolving discipline that's focus is on self defense, in whatever guise that it may take. Nobody in the real world delivers a punch like those given in the dojo/dojang, so we train against street brawlers haymakers and boxers quick jabs and right/left crosses, uppercuts included, but those usually come from within the clinch range. As for the kicks and grappling attacks mentioned, again this falls under self defense training and not MMA UFC aspects. There are no rules in the street and that is where Hapkido places it's objectives. The closer an Hapkido practicioner gets to his attacker (style preference), the better the defensive posture becomes. All this may just sound like the standard response found when a question similiar in nature is asked, but there is really nothing specific to address from the training standpoint. Hope this was of some value to you. :asian:


----------



## matt.m (Sep 3, 2006)

You know, I know Moo Sul Kwan has had the same cirriculum since Grandmaster Park came from Korea.  I know this does not entirely answer your question however consider this: If you practice a technique 10,000 times it becomes like 2nd nature right?  Well techniques in hapkido are taught from grabs from what I believe to be staging or reference points.  These are too learn from, however not how your total defense would revolve around.  (Help me out Scott if I am wrong, you are more knowledgeable than I).

I am sorry, it is true in my experience from combat in the Marines that people won't stand there like a good partner and grab you by the wrist.  That does not mean that the hapkido I was taught by my father at the time was ineffective.  On the contrary, I somehow knew to look past the technique as it was taught in a classroom environment and make it workable for me.

So, really we don't see true fighting.  Not on tv anyway, the UFC to me is absolutely no different than Tae Kwon Do sparring and Judo randori.  I say this from the experience of actual hand to hand combat in Haiti for several months, as well as Liberia, Albania, Israel, and Tunisa.  

Look in a nutshell if it is fighting there is not one rule, if there are rules there is a ring of some sort and a gymnasium.

Any art is applicable to self defense that is why it is considered martial.  It is up to the practitioner to look past the class room environment of good partners, friends and a decent setting.  In this way, the several and countless hours spent in the dojang, dojo, school, whatever will not be for nothing.

Afterall, if someone shoots a single or double....whatever and you can do something to quickly evade or end the confrontation then the technique worked.


----------



## Paul B (Sep 3, 2006)

I agree.

I was told coming up that techniques are really nothing more than road signs saying "You are here" in an altercation. 

Learn the technique *thoroughly*..recognize the entry and exit positions and the technique will fall into place. If you think too much or second guess yourself it's too late..you're past the exit. There's something else  that has to do with that darn "Yoo" principle as well,but I digress. 

It's almost like you have to train for it or something.:uhyeah:


----------



## zDom (Sep 4, 2006)

Paul B said:


> I agree.
> 
> I was told coming up that techniques are really nothing more than road signs saying "You are here" in an altercation.
> 
> Learn the technique *thoroughly*..recognize the entry and exit positions and the technique will fall into place. If you think too much or second guess yourself it's too late..you're past the exit.



Well said.


----------



## FearlessFreep (Sep 5, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback.  It's given me something to think about, and more questions that I don't yet know how to form, yet.

I think I may have misspoken.  I hope I didn't come across as saying that Hapkido should change to be usable in MMA-style competitions.  I used UFC as an example of arts using different sorts of attacks and wondering if Hapkido had evolved to meet thos different style of attacks.  I hope I didn't come across as asking a "Hapkido vs MMA" or "Hapkido in UFC" question.  In that I may be wrong in that the attacks I'm thinking of (mostly takedowns and clinches) are ones that Hapkido has long had counters for, which I just haven't seen yet.


----------



## American HKD (Sep 5, 2006)

Greetings

Interesting thread!

Speaking for myself HKD must continue to develope, no one punches like Karate or TKD, they box more or less, no one uses a sword they use knives or sticks, people now grapple more than before due to BJJ or MMA whatever.

I think it's important for all Master's to keep up with the times and address current trend or issues.  

Now the $1,000,000.00 question will it still be HKD??? The answer is YES as long as the principles fall into place and that's for Masters with many years expirience to figure out just as it was done in the past. 

My 2 cents!


----------



## Paul B (Sep 5, 2006)

American HKD said:


> Speaking for myself HKD must continue to develope, no one punches like Karate or TKD, they box more or less, no one uses a sword they use knives or sticks, people now grapple more than before due to BJJ or MMA whatever.


 
I agree up to a point. 

Learning how to defend against the shoot and other takedowns are very important. I think that it's how you go about solving that particular equation that determines the "Hapki-esqueness" of your technique.

Are we saying that we need to learn to roll and play tap out,or are we saying that we need to work more on finger locks,throat and eye strikes,knees/elbows and other fun stuff? 

Then comes the ever popular..."But how can we train this with resistance?"..answered by "Very carefully."

But does that mean we shouldn't continue to practice the more anachronistic techniques,like the sword..and proceed to give up parts of our art? 



			
				American HKD said:
			
		

> I think it's important for all Master's to keep up with the times and address current trend or issues.


 
I think it's important to ask ourselves what our system has already that we can use and train more assertively to defend against the current fad. 

Thoughts?


----------



## FearlessFreep (Sep 5, 2006)

_ I think it's important for all Master's to keep up with the times and address current trend or issues.

I think it's important to ask ourselves what our system has already that we can use and train more assertively to defend against the current fad_

You might both be saying the same thing....just depends on how it's applied.  Do you need a new technique to deal with a new threat?  Or can an old technque by adapted and/or applied to that new threat?  As lons as you take the threat seriously and have a realistic response to it...that should be what's important


----------



## The MMA kid! (Sep 6, 2006)

oh, ok


----------



## zDom (Sep 6, 2006)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> Do you need a new technique to deal with a new threat?  Or can an old technque by adapted and/or applied to that new threat?



And, is there really such as thing as a "new threat"?

("There is nothing new under the sun" -- Solomon)

Maybe we just need to shift the training focus onto techniques that deal with the most likely threat of the season.


----------



## American HKD (Sep 6, 2006)

zDom said:


> And, is there really such as thing as a "new threat"?
> 
> ("There is nothing new under the sun" -- Solomon)
> 
> Maybe we just need to shift the training focus onto techniques that deal with the most likely threat of the season.


 

[/quote]

FearlessFreep 
Do you need a new technique to deal with a new threat? Or can an old technque by adapted and/or applied to that new threat?.[/quote]


Greetings,

I've been there done that, or at least I think I have to some degree.

I think the truth is both aspects are important:

1. Dig deep into what you have
2. Add what's missing

No Art is a perfect system!!!


----------



## FearlessFreep (Sep 6, 2006)

zDom said:


> And, is there really such as thing as a "new threat"?
> 
> ("There is nothing new under the sun" -- Solomon)
> 
> Maybe we just need to shift the training focus onto techniques that deal with the most likely threat of the season.



Maybe not...maybe just the fad threat de-jour


----------

