# Will you come to an early end?



## AlwaysTraining (Jan 25, 2006)

Years ago, just shortly after first studying shotokan, I learned something interesting about the martial arts.  That responsible use of the MA will prolong one's life.  However, irresponsible use will cause one to come to an early end.  I believe the exact quote was, "Proper use of the martial arts will prolong your life.  False use will take it from you."

What is everyone's reaction to such a concept?  I for one believe.  Though there is nothing solid to support such a concept, and I consider myself to be a man of science, I believe that some how, perhaps having it's connections in chi, there is validity to this idea.  

This idea may be of interest to those of you that posted to the 'Existence of Chi' thread in this same forum.  Perhaps through irresponsible practice of MA (being a bully for example), one begins to develop an excess of negative energy with regard to their chi.  It could be that such an excess results in a premature death of some nature.  Or perhaps it's merely karma of some sort.

Regardless of what it is, I think it's an interesting concept.  One worth deep thought.

What do all of you out there think?  As always, all, and I mean ALL, opinions and information is welcome and encouraged.


----------



## Jade Tigress (Jan 25, 2006)

I agree with that statement. In addition to self-defense purposes, martial arts in general are well known for health benefits - some more than others. I don't know if the prolonging/shortening of life would have to do with Chi, or some other physical health benefit - like just being in shape, or if the statement means that if you use it well you can protect yourself from things that could take your life, and misusing it will get you in situations that will take your life, like the bullying you pointed out. 

My opinion is that it's a combination of both - physical health benefits from the practice of MA and the wisdom that can come from devotion to the study and practice of martial arts.


----------



## OnlyAnEgg (Jan 25, 2006)

In simple confrontational terms, MA is a self-defence skill.  There is, typically, no room for agression in MA.  It follows, then, that proper use of MA will minimize confrontations is used properly.  If used aggressively, the number and severity of confrontations will rise, increasing the likelyhood of shortening your life.

In more spiritual terms, proper use of focus, balance, diet and other facets of an MA lifestyle will certainly make you healthier and less stressed, minimizing illnesses related to stress and poor diet; thereby, increasing not only the length but the quality of life.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Drac (Jan 25, 2006)

Learning a new skill gives you something to look forward to, it keeps the mind sharp..As we in the MA are constantly learning we always have something to look forward to..Practicing what we have learned wil keep the body flexible and are Chi or Ki strong..I think we will all be here for awhile..


----------



## mrhnau (Jan 25, 2006)

Interesting question. Not going to answer with regard to chi or karma though. I think the answer would depend on what you mean by "proper use of martial arts".

Are you talking about application? Defending yourself or someone else? If you are artificially emboldened beyond your skill level or practical application, then yes, you could come to an early end. Someone breaks in your house with a gun, and you think your martial arts skills makes you great enough to charge 20 ft across the room and knock him out like Remo, then you might come to an early end. I suppose "proper" use might mean that you realize your limitations in certain situations, and are willing to take the route of minimal "damage" through wisdom you have gained through training. Damage of course not limited to just physical damage.

Are you talking about training? Of course physical training is going to extend your life, with some caveats. Are you going bananas for three hours while training? Going at such a frantic pace and with such physical violence that your body has no time to heal itself and recover? Then I doubt you are doing much to extend your life. In most styles, you are going to get injured in some fashion if you stay with it long enough. Do you take time to heal and recover? Say you hyperextend a knee. Taking a few weeks off to recover, or are you so militaristic that you insist on not missing a class? I don't see a militaristic approach to injury doing much to increase your life span or quality of life. What would be the "proper approach" in this situation? Whats your schools philosophy on training, and is it "proper" from a martial arts view as well as a medical view?


----------



## evenflow1121 (Jan 25, 2006)

I guess as a martial artist if you seek inner peace and you have it you will probably live longer, also in my case for example it also taught me self control (ie--eating habits, planning your daily events, ect.),  on the other hand if you are always ticked off and want to beat people up well stress can get to you, or someone else will.


----------



## Flying Crane (Jan 25, 2006)

Live by the sword, Die by the sword.

If you use your skills responsibly for health and self defense only, it should prolong your life.  If you are reckless and train irresponsibly and look for fights, you may be killed in a confrontation or your health will degenerate more quickly than it should.


----------



## AlwaysTraining (Jan 27, 2006)

Everyone here has made some excellent points.  I agree with the general concensus that the irresponsible use of the MA (bullying, again) will result in the occurance of a situation that is not survivable.  Now, being that I believe in the existence of chi, I also believe in it's link to this concept.  It's as though the chi is bound by some kind of law (perhaps the physics of chi) that brings about this life ending situation.  It's as though it is for a smoker.  The individuals smoking results in the deterioration of his/her lungs.  This simply follows the laws of physiology.  Perhaps the early end, as well as many other things, follows the laws of chi.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jan 27, 2006)

> Proper use of the martial arts will prolong your life. False use will take it from you."


That was an interesting quote

I had never heard it as related to the martial arts but I had once heard someone I respected as a healer and a man of devoted to the spiritual side of life say much the same thing about healing


----------



## SAVAGE (Jan 27, 2006)

AlwaysTraining said:
			
		

> "Proper use of the martial arts will prolong your life. False use will take it from you."


 
I think it is a matter of being responsible about your art....if used properly it could save your life..physically, it could stop aomeone from trying to kill you..or it could make you fitter and healthier!

On the flip side if you brag and go about looking for conflict , which goes against the whole point of MA...you are going to kill yourself!


----------



## AlwaysTraining (Jan 27, 2006)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> That was an interesting quote
> 
> I had never heard it as related to the martial arts but I had once heard someone I respected as a healer and a man of devoted to the spiritual side of life say much the same thing about healing


That's very interesting.  Perhaps chi is a common link between healing and the MA, especially with regard to the effect that proper or irresponsible use of either would have on chi.  That being said, I'd say prolonged life or an early end is not limited to the proper or irresponsible use of the MA.  Further thoughts, please.


----------



## Marginal (Feb 5, 2006)

AlwaysTraining said:
			
		

> Years ago, just shortly after first studying shotokan, I learned something interesting about the martial arts. That responsible use of the MA will prolong one's life. However, irresponsible use will cause one to come to an early end. I believe the exact quote was, "Proper use of the martial arts will prolong your life. False use will take it from you."
> 
> What is everyone's reaction to such a concept? I for one believe. Though there is nothing solid to support such a concept, and I consider myself to be a man of science, I believe that some how, perhaps having it's connections in chi, there is validity to this idea.


 
IMO you're manufacturing mysticism and injecting it into the statement to create your objection. 

Pragmatically, proper use of a MA would imply that you are engaging in regular exercise, and you're not taking stupid risks. You know enough to avoid confrontations you don't have to actually engage in, and you're not taking pointless risks during training.

Improper use of a MA implies you end up dying of shock after being gutted by a punk with a knife after looking for trouble. (Or take your pick of violent or Darwinawardsesque death incurred though trying to solve every problem with your fists.)


----------



## still learning (Feb 13, 2006)

Hello, Are we not link to past?  Fight or flee instincts are still in us?

The strong will survive and the weak will die?  Modern day...we still need to be strong? ...against the bad people.

The martial arts is about making you stronger...more mature...more forgiveing...more helpful to others...

Use it for evil....life may get shorter? ..or behind bars?

We all learn from others growing up...they also learn from there parents too....ARE WE LEARNING FROM THE WRONG PEOPLE?  (the way we are rise to believe about life?)

......Aloha


----------



## Xue Sheng (Feb 13, 2006)

How many times have you heard of someone training to hard or in the wrong manner and getting hurt? This certainly is not healthy.

If you train MA properly you are healthier and in general you will live longer if you are healthier.

Look at many of the Tai Chi masters they live to very old ages. 
Look at Kung fu masters; they too live to old ages.
Good diet, good exercise, generally equates to long life. 
Read about some of these old Tai Chi guys, some were sickly until they started training Tai Chi.

As for Qi Gong, I think everyone has already heard enough from me about that in the Chinese martial arts section. But I will add this. 

The traditional Chinese medical view of Qi, If you have strong Qi in the body you are health, if you have weak Qi in your body you are sick, if you have no Qi in your body you are dead.

Also TCM believes that there are psychological conditions that can occur from improper Qi training. And the west must agree at least a little sense they list the following condition; Qigong Psychosis, Qi-Gong Psychotic Reaction.

Jou Tsung Hwa did Tai Chi and Qi Gong and was very health into his 80s and I believe would probably still be alive today is it wasn't for an accident. 

I do not think there is much mysticism here, just good heath benefits from good habits


----------



## Henderson (Feb 15, 2006)

I'm not gonna comment on all this ki/chi/karma stuff.  As already stated, MA is for self-defense, not aggression.  If you look for trouble, rest assured, it will find you.

My early end will be caused by all the coffee, cigarettes, and cheeseburgers, not my decisions (good, bad, or irrelevant) regarding MA.

Respects,

Frank


----------



## AlwaysTraining (Feb 15, 2006)

Perhaps it is as simple as that.  We've heard, even seen, of such things happening before.  I suppose it doesn't need any assistance from my physical law of chi concept.  It happens on it's own... through inevitability.  Thoughts?


----------



## White Fox (Feb 17, 2006)

It makes me think if you are arrogant and foolishly us you MA ability to pick fights and cause trouble to others and human society as a whole soon enough you will fight the wrong guy. Or you may join gangs or whatever the point being they are self destructive ends. Thus shorten you life

If you use MA for health of your body and mind to cultivate a mode of goodness lifestyle. Such as proper foods, exercise no drugs, association with intelligent good people interested in advancement of consciousness and human society. These engagements will prolong you life.

It's like MA's are a tool and what matters is the consciousness of the individual using this particular tool.

-Can ya dig it?


----------



## DeLamar.J (Feb 26, 2006)

AlwaysTraining said:
			
		

> Years ago, just shortly after first studying shotokan, I learned something interesting about the martial arts. That responsible use of the MA will prolong one's life. However, irresponsible use will cause one to come to an early end. I believe the exact quote was, "Proper use of the martial arts will prolong your life. False use will take it from you."
> 
> What is everyone's reaction to such a concept? I for one believe. Though there is nothing solid to support such a concept, and I consider myself to be a man of science, I believe that some how, perhaps having it's connections in chi, there is validity to this idea.
> 
> ...


In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.


----------



## Bigshadow (Feb 26, 2006)

I believe it is all about choices. If martial arts is your guidance through life, if it is truly your path, and you have a good heart, I believe you will make the right choices. If your heart is bad, and or you are not sincere with your training, I believe this leads people to make enough bad choices that can bring about an early demise.

It isn't just martial arts, many religions have the same concept of righteousness bringing forth longevity. In a spiritual sense, the martial way is a sort of righteous path as long as one maintains a good heart. If the person has a bad heart, they will destroy themselves and others. Indeed, martial arts is about LIVING!

Just think for a minute about ego and how much negative impact it has. Think about why we are constantly taught to check the ego at the door. Ego is but just a small thing on the road of life, and look how much trouble ego can get one into.


----------



## bushidomartialarts (Mar 10, 2006)

imo, it boils down to happiness.

happy people live longer.  if you train to expand your horizons, grow personally, relieve stress and stay fit, you increase your happiness.

if you train to be able to win bar fights, learn to kill people and swell your ego, you live in dark spaces and decrease your happiness.  people who aren't happy die earlier.


----------

