# BBs should know who Jhoon Goo Rhee and Jack Hwang (Hwang Sae Jin) was!



## Bruce7 (Dec 8, 2018)

I was calling a round to find a new school. I live in Texas. The girl answering the phone said she was a 2 degree Black Belt. She asked If I had any experience. I said I had gone to one of *Jack Hwang*'s schools. She said she had never heard of *Jack Hwang*. So then I ask had she heard of *Jhoon Goo Rhee*, she said no. I had no more questions. I do not know maybe I am crazy, but if you are a Black Belt living in Texas you should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee* and *Jack Hwang* was. We can argue about the years need or what skill level a black belt should have, but Black Belts should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee *was,  who many consider the father of American Taekwondo.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 8, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> I was calling a round to find a new school. I live in Texas. The girl answering the phone said she was a 2 degree Black Belt. She asked If I had any experience. I said I had gone to one of *Jack Hwang*'s schools. She said she had never heard of *Jack Hwang*. So then I ask had she heard of *Jhoon Goo Rhee*, she said no. I had no more questions. I do not know maybe I am crazy, but if you are a Black Belt living in Texas you should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee* and *Jack Hwang* was. We can argue about the years need or what skill level a black belt should have, but Black Belts should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee *was,  who many consider the father of American Taekwondo.


Knowing or not knowing the history of the art doesn't necessarily affect the quality of instruction or training. But people not knowing the basics (hell, I know who Jhoon Rhee is!) after training more than a year drives me batty.


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## Headhunter (Dec 8, 2018)

What does knowing some guy have to do with being able to teach or not? Personally I couldn't give a stuff about senior instructors in my style. I know the very big names but I don't know any senior ranks or any of these big names because I don't care about them. I'm there to train not look up names.

Just because this person doesn't know who they are doesn't mean they don't know the style and can't teach just means they're not bothered about that stuff


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 8, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> What does knowing some guy have to do with being able to teach or not? Personally I couldn't give a stuff about senior instructors in my style. I know the very big names but I don't know any senior ranks or any of these big names because I don't care about them. I'm there to train not look up names.
> 
> Just because this person doesn't know who they are doesn't mean they don't know the style and can't teach just means they're not bothered about that stuff


Not knowing some senior instructor isn't that important, IMO. Knowing key figures in the art ought to be part of the learning. It doesn't affect combat ability, but it should be there (for all that "should" is worth).


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## dvcochran (Dec 8, 2018)

It really comes down to what you value and how you are taught. I get people that do not know XXX instructor but that is not in the MA vein to me. Lineage is important in MA. That does not define what you are as an instructor however. But is should identify you within a given style. If that doesn't matter to someone they should be ok with saying they do not practice a Martial Art.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 8, 2018)

I can sorta see the point about Jhoon rhee, since he's pretty famous in the MA world and founded his own style. Not sure why people would be expected to know how jack hwang is though..I think that might be your bias since he trained you.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 8, 2018)

It's nice that you have such a high opinion of your teachers, but get real. There are, literally, thousands of TKD schools in TX. I had never head of Hwang, and I'm MDK.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 8, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> It really comes down to what you value and how you are taught. I get people that do not know XXX instructor but that is not in the MA vein to me. Lineage is important in MA. That does not define what you are as an instructor however. But is should identify you within a given style. If that doesn't matter to someone they should be ok with saying they do not practice a Martial Art.


I don't get that, DV. I'm not really into the idea that a martial art is necessarily a higher-level thing.


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## skribs (Dec 8, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> I was calling a round to find a new school. I live in Texas. The girl answering the phone said she was a 2 degree Black Belt. She asked If I had any experience. I said I had gone to one of *Jack Hwang*'s schools. She said she had never heard of *Jack Hwang*. So then I ask had she heard of *Jhoon Goo Rhee*, she said no. I had no more questions. I do not know maybe I am crazy, but if you are a Black Belt living in Texas you should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee* and *Jack Hwang* was. We can argue about the years need or what skill level a black belt should have, but Black Belts should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee *was,  who many consider the father of American Taekwondo.



I don't know who they are.  I've never heard the name Jack Hwang before.  I've heard of Jhoon Goo Ree, but if I told you who he is it'd be a guess at best.  I've trained under two different Masters at two different schools, and I couldn't tell you the name of many people outside of those schools.  But I'm a good teacher.  Not great, definitely not the best.  But I have a firm understanding of the scientific principles behind Taekwondo and I've gotten pretty good at giving that knowledge to others.  I don't really see what knowing a couple of names has to do with that.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 9, 2018)

Get used to it.   Try asking  a lot of students under 20 if they know who Bruce Lee was.   Or a 45 RPM record.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 9, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Get used to it.   Try asking  a lot of students under 20 if they know who Bruce Lee was.   Or a 45 RPM record.


If they are students of JKD, I'd expect them to know one of those. Can't practice those principles without vinyl.


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## Bruce7 (Dec 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I can sorta see the point about Jhoon rhee, since he's pretty famous in the MA world and founded his own style. Not sure why people would be expected to know how jack hwang is though..I think that might be your bias since he trained you.


 
You are right to call me out for being bias.
If anyone is interested in learning about the pioneers of Taekwondo in America. This is a nice article about some of those pioneers* How Tae Kwon Do Won the West Part 1 - USAdojo.com*


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 9, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> You are right to call me out for being bias.
> If anyone is interested in learning about the pioneers of Taekwondo in America. This is a nice article about some of those pioneers* How Tae Kwon Do Won the West Part 1 - USAdojo.com*


Here's my take on knowing Hwang's name. Someone interested in the history of the art would (and probably should) know it. But I (from my outside view) wouldn't consider his name the "one" that should be known. The parallel in my primary art (Nihon Goshin Aikido) is that I'd expect any moderately serious student to know who Morita Shodo (the founder of the art) and Richard Bowe (the one who brought it to the US, and the current head of style) are. They might or might not know who Steve Weber and Bob McEwen are - the two pioneers in spreading the art in the US. The latter I'd put (again, from my limited outside knowledge) on par with Hwang.


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## CB Jones (Dec 9, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> You are right to call me out for being bias.
> If anyone is interested in learning about the pioneers of Taekwondo in America. This is a nice article about some of those pioneers* How Tae Kwon Do Won the West Part 1 - USAdojo.com*



Interesting article.

Atlee Chittim is the founder of my son’s style


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## Bruce7 (Dec 9, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Interesting article.
> 
> Atlee Chittim is the founder of my son’s style



Master Chittim introduced Tae Kwon Do (Korean Karate) to the United States in 1956 by bringing Jhoon Rhee from Korean to his home in San Antonio, Texas.

This is a cool website* Atlee Chittim - CottonValleyTaeKwonDo*
The video forms on the site are the same as I learn 40 years ago.
The only different is when walking I was taught the feet moved in a circular movement.


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## skribs (Dec 9, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Get used to it.   Try asking  a lot of students under 20 if they know who Bruce Lee was.   Or a 45 RPM record.



I'm 30 and don't know what a 45 RPM record is.


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## CB Jones (Dec 9, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm 30 and don't know what a 45 RPM record is.



A small vinyl record they released singles on.

I kinda miss vinyl....maybe my next hobby or collection.


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## CB Jones (Dec 9, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> Master Chittim introduced Tae Kwon Do (Korean Karate) to the United States in 1956 by bringing Jhoon Rhee from Korean to his home in San Antonio, Texas.
> 
> This is a cool website* Atlee Chittim - CottonValleyTaeKwonDo*
> The video forms on the site are the same as I learn 40 years ago.
> The only different is when walking I was taught the feet moved in a circular movement.



That’s a good friend of ours site and dojo.

Toby trained under Dr David Jordan at Louisiana Tech.  Dr Jordan trained under Mr Chittim in the 60’s and was Mr. Chittim’s head instructor until he passed in 1989

Dr Jordan became a Kinieisiology professor at Louisiana Tech and started the La Tech karate club and team.  His students have went on to open 11 dojo’s teaching a style of Korean karate called Atlee Chittim Korean Karate.  A few years ago the membership changed the name to Chittim-Jordan Korean Karate.

Mandeville Karate Training Center

Part of their black belt test is knowing the history of Dr. Jordan, Mr. Chittim, Jhoon Rhee and Robert Trias and the Formation of the USKA


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## CB Jones (Dec 9, 2018)

although i wasn’t familiar with Jack Hwang I have enjoyed reading about him this weekend.

Very interesting


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## Bruce7 (Dec 9, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm 30 and don't know what a 45 RPM record is.


This quote explains a lot. I am old enough to have played a 78.


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## skribs (Dec 9, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> This quote explains a lot. I am old enough to have played a 78.



I don't know what that is either.


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## dvcochran (Dec 9, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> It really comes down to what you value and how you are taught. I get people that do not know XXX instructor but that is not in the MA vein to me. Lineage is important in MA. That does not define what you are as an instructor however. But is should identify you within a given style. If that doesn't matter to someone they should be ok with saying they do not practice a Martial Art.


***Edit. I should have said TMA.


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## drop bear (Dec 9, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Get used to it.   Try asking  a lot of students under 20 if they know who Bruce Lee was.   Or a 45 RPM record.



I met a guy who has never swiped an ATM card.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 10, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> Master Chittim introduced Tae Kwon Do (Korean Karate) to the United States in 1956 by bringing Jhoon Rhee from Korean to his home in San Antonio, Texas.
> 
> This is a cool website* Atlee Chittim - CottonValleyTaeKwonDo*
> .



The website lists a bunch of Karate credentials . Where did the "TKD" part come in? Is it including what Jhoon Rhee did at the CDK before he learned TKD as TKD?


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## frank raud (Dec 10, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> This quote explains a lot. I am old enough to have played a 78.



On a wind up Victrola?


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## dvcochran (Dec 10, 2018)

frank raud said:


> On a wind up Victrola?


I have to admit, we played 78's and 45's when I was a kid. I remember thinking 8-tracks & cassette tapes were the greatest evolution in the world. I had just started driving and bought my first vehicle which was a '73 GMC truck. The first thing I did was put an AM/FM cassette player in it. Seemed like a really big deal at the time.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 10, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I have to admit, we played 78's and 45's when I was a kid. I remember thinking 8-tracks & cassette tapes were the greatest evolution in the world. I had just started driving and bought my first vehicle which was a '73 GMC truck. The first thing I did was put an AM/FM cassette player in it. Seemed like a really big deal at the time.


My first car ('76 Ford Maverick) I had only had AM/FM. I put a big boom box in the passenger seat (okay, just on the other side of the bench seat) and belted it in.


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## CB Jones (Dec 10, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> The website lists a bunch of Karate credentials . Where did the "TKD" part come in? Is it including what Jhoon Rhee did at the CDK before he learned TKD as TKD?



Yes it is refers back to the connection to CDK.

The style has considered itself a type of TKD and Korean Karate


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## WaterGal (Dec 10, 2018)

Jack Hwang's name rings a bell, but I couldn't tell you a thing about him. Joon Rhee, of course, really influenced TKD for a long time in the US and had a famous chain of schools. I remember the TV ads from the 80s/90s - "Nobody bodda me!" When I was growing up, I trained under one of his old students (not part of his chain). I think KKW TKD has really overtaken Joon Rhee's style in the US in the 21st century, but he laid the foundation.


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## MetalBoar (Dec 10, 2018)

drop bear said:


> I met a guy who has never swiped an ATM card.


Which way? Was he so old he'd never used one and still refused to do so, or so young that they'd always had chips in his experience? Or so poor that he'd never had a bank account?

Or I guess, maybe never used anything but NFC from his phone?


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## drop bear (Dec 10, 2018)

MetalBoar said:


> Which way? Was he so old he'd never used one and still refused to do so, or so young that they'd always had chips in his experience? Or so poor that he'd never had a bank account?
> 
> Or I guess, maybe never used anything but NFC from his phone?



So young he only ever used contactless.


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## skribs (Dec 10, 2018)

This thread is reminding me of a history class I took in college.  I'm the type of person that I care more about the content or the lesson than trivial information.  So if we learn, for example, that in 2008, Bruce7 discovered a new way of doing a roundhouse kick, I would forget that it happened in 2008, and I would forget that it was Bruce7 that discovered it.  I would remember the new way of doing a roundhouse kick, what the old way was, and why the new way is better.  Knowing it happened in 2008 and knowing Bruce7 discovered it does nothing for me, because those pieces of information don't have anything to do with the kick itself.

Anyway, in this class, I was so good at the homework assignments (because they focused on the content of the lessons) that my teacher named me and one other student as unofficial advisers.  She said "if you're not sure what to do on your homework, ask Skribs or (the other person), because they did excellent on their papers."  Come midterms...I got a D.  I studied real hard for the final, harder than I've ever studied for any test in my life up to that point.  Harder than I studied for SATs and college entrance exams.  I got a C+ on the final.

Why did I get a D?  Every single question on the test was multiple choice.  And the questions were either:

Which event took place on 1/27/1912?
On what date did this event take place?
Who was responsible for this event?
What event was that person responsible for?
And the way my brain works, where I take the lessons learned from the events and discard the names and the dates, it was absolutely horrible.  If the questions were things like "What was the lesson learned from this event" or "what effect did this event have on future issues" then it would have made a whole lot more sense to me.

Anyway, this thread kind of reminded me of that class.  And how much different it was doing the take-home essays on the content of the history, vs. the in-class multiple choice tests that focused on names and dates.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> This thread is reminding me of a history class I took in college.  I'm the type of person that I care more about the content or the lesson than trivial information.  So if we learn, for example, that in 2008, Bruce7 discovered a new way of doing a roundhouse kick, I would forget that it happened in 2008, and I would forget that it was Bruce7 that discovered it.  I would remember the new way of doing a roundhouse kick, what the old way was, and why the new way is better.  Knowing it happened in 2008 and knowing Bruce7 discovered it does nothing for me, because those pieces of information don't have anything to do with the kick itself.
> 
> Anyway, in this class, I was so good at the homework assignments (because they focused on the content of the lessons) that my teacher named me and one other student as unofficial advisers.  She said "if you're not sure what to do on your homework, ask Skribs or (the other person), because they did excellent on their papers."  Come midterms...I got a D.  I studied real hard for the final, harder than I've ever studied for any test in my life up to that point.  Harder than I studied for SATs and college entrance exams.  I got a C+ on the final.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I suck at those kinds of tests, too. In college, my non-western civ instructor gave me a C. He knew I'd taken notes and asked good questions in class and participated, but I've never scored very well on a typical history test in my life, so he gave me a better grade.

But to put this issue in perspective, from my point of view, it's more like knowing who George Washington was. It's an important name that comes up a lot in History class - not just tied to one event (that roundhouse kick). I can remember the basics of who important figures are (though I'm unlikely to remember whether they lived in the 1910's or 16th century). So it drives me nuts when someone doesn't bother to learn that kind of basics.

But, again, there's no reason it should have any impact on their ability to use or teach the material. It'll just make me grumble.


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## Bruce7 (Dec 11, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, I suck at those kinds of tests, too. In college, my non-western civ instructor gave me a C. He knew I'd taken notes and asked good questions in class and participated, but I've never scored very well on a typical history test in my life, so he gave me a better grade.
> 
> But to put this issue in perspective, from my point of view, it's more like knowing who George Washington was. It's an important name that comes up a lot in History class - not just tied to one event (that roundhouse kick). I can remember the basics of who important figures are (though I'm unlikely to remember whether they lived in the 1910's or 16th century). So it drives me nuts when someone doesn't bother to learn that kind of basics.
> 
> But, again, there's no reason it should have any impact on their ability to use or teach the material. It'll just make me grumble.



This was a good post.

After doing some research, it makes perfect since that she did not know who I was talking about. She had only train at ATA schools. If I had asked about Haeng Ung Lee, the father of ATA she would have known him. I had never heard of Haeng Ung Lee or ATA until I recently started trying to figure way schools today are so different. The history of Korean martial arts from 1945 to today is very confusing. 
What I learn 40 years ago looks more like Shotokan Karate than today's Taekwondo. Do you think it is because WTF made Taekwondo  a sport?


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 11, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> This was a good post.
> 
> After doing some research, it makes perfect since that she did not know who I was talking about. She had only train at ATA schools. If I had asked about Haeng Ung Lee, the father of ATA she would have known him. I had never heard of Haeng Ung Lee or ATA until I recently started trying to figure way schools today are so different. The history of Korean martial arts from 1945 to today is very confusing.
> What I learn 40 years ago looks more like Shotokan Karate than today's Taekwondo. Do you think it is because WTF made Taekwondo  a sport?


"Today's Taekwondo" is too general a phrase. There are multiple flavors of TKD today. Some probably look like what you're used to. There's definitely a flavor out there that is heavily influenced by the progression of WTF rules.

For my personal take, I'm surprised anyone with a few years in TKD in the US isn't familiar with Jhoon Rhee's name. I'd have thought he was influential enough in the US that his name would come up, regardless of the branch. But that's possibly a flawed viewpoint. (For comparison, I'd consider it like someone in Gozo Shioda's branch of Aikido not knowing who Tomiki Kenji is - just seems odd to me.)


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 11, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> For my personal take, I'm surprised anyone with a few years in TKD in the US isn't familiar with Jhoon Rhee's name. I'd have thought he was influential enough in the US that his name would come up, regardless of the branch.


A person's age might have something to do with it. I'm familiar with Jhoon Rhee because when I was growing up I saw his television commercials. After that I saw him mentioned periodically in martial arts magazines. (Black Belt, et al). For young people coming up in the art today he's probably more of an historical figure and I'd guess that the average martial arts student isn't that concerned with the general history of their art.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 12, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> A person's age might have something to do with it. I'm familiar with Jhoon Rhee because when I was growing up I saw his television commercials. After that I saw him mentioned periodically in martial arts magazines. (Black Belt, et al). For young people coming up in the art today he's probably more of an historical figure and I'd guess that the average martial arts student isn't that concerned with the general history of their art.


That's surely a component , though none of that is how I know of him. I never got into reading MA magazines, and don't recall any commercials of that type (they probably didn't make it to the area I grew up in). I picked up the name from forums or casual conversation with folks in TKD.


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> That's surely a component , though none of that is how I know of him. I never got into reading MA magazines, and don't recall any commercials of that type (they probably didn't make it to the area I grew up in). I picked up the name from forums or casual conversation with folks in TKD.


Of course, I think the majority of martial arts students also don’t spend much time on martial arts forums or talking in depth with practitioners of other arts. We’re kind of the exceptions here.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 12, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Of course, I think the majority of martial arts students also don’t spend much time on martial arts forums or talking in depth with practitioners of other arts. We’re kind of the exceptions here.


Oh, I agree. My point was that I picked up that information in casual discussion, from outside the art. I'd have thought someone training for a few years would pick it up, even if by accident.


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## skribs (Dec 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Oh, I agree. My point was that I picked up that information in casual discussion, from outside the art. I'd have thought someone training for a few years would pick it up, even if by accident.



I don't think the name's come up at my dojang.  The history of the art doesn't come up much, either.  

Then again, I'm horrible at gossip.  In high school I only found out who was dating who after they broke up.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 12, 2018)

skribs said:


> I don't think the name's come up at my dojang.  The history of the art doesn't come up much, either.
> 
> Then again, I'm horrible at gossip.  In high school I only found out who was dating who after they broke up.


Remember I said earlier that this is my probably flawed expectation. It doesn’t really color my opinion of folks when they don’t know these things - it just drives me nuts for a while. I know intellectually that it rally doesn’t matter in any meaningful way for most folks.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 12, 2018)

I had my 1st Fung Fu school at the same location as Jhoon Rhee had when he was in Austin, Texas (back in 1970). I had also taught to one of his students. From what his student told me, Jhoon Rhee believes TKD is all about "side kick".

Google Maps


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## CB Jones (Dec 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I had my 1st Fung Fu school at the same location as Jhoon Rhee had when he was in Austin, Texas (back in 1970). I had also taught to one of his students. From what his student told me, Jhoon Rhee believes TKD is all about "side kick".
> 
> Google Maps



Interesting....the style my son trains in puts emphasis on the side kick.

I wonder if that was due to Jhoon Rhee or if the original Kwans emphasized it


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## Buka (Dec 12, 2018)

I know of Jhoon Rhee from him introducing us to Safe-T-Kick and Safe-T-Punch in the early seventies. Heck, I wanted to send him a thank you card.

That being said....when we first used it in competition it produced some of the coolest brawls I've ever been part of.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 12, 2018)

Buka said:


> I know of Jhoon Rhee from him introducing us to Safe-T-Kick and Safe-T-Punch in the early seventies. Heck, I wanted to send him a thank you card.
> 
> That being said....when we first used it in competition it produced some of the coolest brawls I've ever been part of.


What are those things, Buka?


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## Buka (Dec 12, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> What are those things, Buka?



These things...




 

The very first ones were odd. The hands were tin can shaped with a string inside to grip with your fingers. But when they first came out, oooh mama, did it rock the tourney world. We only competed in tournaments where head contact was allowed. No-contact seemed strange, it was kind of like you were practicing to miss.

I remember the very first tournaments where they were used. It was nuts. I have been in more peaceful riots. And I mean that one hundred percent literally.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 12, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> This quote explains a lot. I am old enough to have played a 78.


Me too!!


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## Flying Crane (Dec 12, 2018)

Buka said:


> I know of Jhoon Rhee from him introducing us to Safe-T-Kick and Safe-T-Punch in the early seventies. Heck, I wanted to send him a thank you card.
> 
> That being said....when we first used it in competition it produced some of the coolest brawls I've ever been part of.


I remember those too.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 12, 2018)

Buka said:


> I know of Jhoon Rhee from him introducing us to Safe-T-Kick and Safe-T-Punch in the early seventies. Heck, I wanted to send him a thank you card.
> 
> That being said....when we first used it in competition it produced some of the coolest brawls I've ever been part of.



Marking the end of (widespread) bare knuckle sparring.


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## kitkatninja (Dec 13, 2018)

I'm in two minds about this (pls note that I do not train in TKD)...  Personally I like to know the lineage of my art, so for my "MA tree", I've gone back a bit but how far back do you go?  Your instructor, your instructor's instructor, the founder of the art, their instructors?  How many TKD practitioners know of Won Kuk Lee or Gichin Funakoshi and his son, Gigō Funakoshi, or even their teachers?

General Choi Hong Hi <- Funakoshi Gichin <- Ankō Asato, Ankō Itosu, and Matsumura Sōkon

Jhoon Goo Rhee <- Won Kuk Lee <- Gigō Funakoshi <- Gichin Funakoshi (Gigō father)
                                                           <- Gichin Funakoshi <- Ankō Asato, Ankō Itosu, and Matsumura Sōkon

And as for the records, yeah, use to have them as a kid in the early 80's...  Disney soundtracks


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 13, 2018)

kitkatninja said:


> I'm in two minds about this (pls note that I do not train in TKD)...  Personally I like to know the lineage of my art, so for my "MA tree", I've gone back a bit but how far back do you go?  Your instructor, your instructor's instructor, the founder of the art, their instructors?  How many TKD practitioners know of Won Kuk Lee or Gichin Funakoshi and his son, Gigō Funakoshi, or even their teachers?
> 
> General Choi Hong Hi <- Funakoshi Gichin <- Ankō Asato, Ankō Itosu, and Matsumura Sōkon
> 
> ...


My (mostly reasonable) expectation is for students to know the founder of the art (as it is named) and one key person after that (in most lines here, that'd be the person who brought it to the US) - plus anyone I jabber about on a regular basis (because those should become easy to remember without them putting forth any effort).

Of course, none of that really matter except in an intellectual capacity. But since I really hope the students never need to use any of the fighting skills I teach, I want to incorporate some other practices and habits that can be useful elsewhere in life. So I set some expectations that support those habits.


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## Earl Weiss (Dec 13, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> . From what his student told me, Jhoon Rhee believes TKD is all about "side kick".
> 
> Google Maps


I am not sure what he was thinking, but I have long held the belief and told students that the  "Side Piercing Kick" (Many "Side Kicks" In the Chang Hon system)  is very likely the most technically difficult  basic kick to learn ( "Basic" as compared to jumping multiple kicks ) but once you are able to do that well it will make learning / executing all the other kicks easier.   I have had transfer students with instructors whom i never met in far away places tell me their instructors said the same thing.


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## Balrog (Dec 23, 2018)

Bruce7 said:


> I was calling a round to find a new school. I live in Texas. The girl answering the phone said she was a 2 degree Black Belt. She asked If I had any experience. I said I had gone to one of *Jack Hwang*'s schools. She said she had never heard of *Jack Hwang*. So then I ask had she heard of *Jhoon Goo Rhee*, she said no. I had no more questions. I do not know maybe I am crazy, but if you are a Black Belt living in Texas you should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee* and *Jack Hwang* was. We can argue about the years need or what skill level a black belt should have, but Black Belts should know who *Jhoon Goo Rhee *was,  who many consider the father of American Taekwondo.


When I first started training back in 1966, I was at the U. T. Karate Club, which was actually a Taekwondo school that was started by GM Rhee.  I almost made Black Belt there, then sat out for much too long a time and restarted with ATA in 1987.

I had the opportunity to meet GM Rhee about three years before his death and thank him for getting me started in Taekwondo.


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