# A trivial question but one I've wanted to know the answer to for years!



## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

When I was a child my father would take me to the pictures (the movies) he liked war films and I always remember one where some Allied prisoners of war escaped, got hold of civvie clothes and went on the run in Germany however the American POW was caught because he was eating in a restraurant/cafe where it became very obvious he was an American from his eating habits!
Ok the question that has been stuck in my head for about 45 years now lol is why do Americans use their knife and fork differently from Europeans? We keep our knives in our right hand, forks in the left hand throughout the meal but Americans cut up their food then swap the fork to the right hand. Is there a specific reason for this, it can't be to keep a weapon hand free unless everyone is lefthanded!  
Put me out of my misery please! :duh:

Does anyone actually know the film I mean as well?


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## elder999 (Jun 4, 2008)

Prior to U.S. colonial times, the custom in England was to eat with the fork in the right hand, then transfer it to the left hand and use a knife in the right hand when needed, then set down the knife and continue using the fork back in the right hand. The key characteristic of such a method is that the knife is out of the hand entirely most of the time. A knife held in the right hand could quickly be used as a weapon, so this method removed that risk and was a goodwill gesture to show that the meal could continue in peace. It is probably of similar origin to the right-handed handshake, which was also used to show that neither party was carrying a weapon.

When America was a British colony, this method became generally accepted practice in America, as well.

Some time after U.S. independence, King George III had remarked on the barbaric origins of the custom, and decreed that at his state dinners there was no danger, so everybody should use knife and fork in a sensible way, namely keeping the knife ready in the right hand when needed, and keeping the fork in the left hand. Over time, it became the custom throughout the U.K. to eat in this manner. The additional feature of keeping the fork tines turned down was probably a florish added to emphasize the delicacy of the cuisine.

In the newly independent U.S., people were not eager to adopt customs from the U.K., so Americans continued to use the older method, and that has persisted to this day.You can find more of the history in This book.

I think it's _The Great Escape,_ but I'm not certain-motorcycle chase with Steve McQueen sound familiar?


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Prior to U.S. colonial times, the custom in England was to eat with the fork in the right hand, then transfer it to the left hand and use a knife in the right hand when needed, then set down the knife and continue using the fork back in the right hand. The key characteristic of such a method is that the knife is out of the hand entirely most of the time. A knife held in the right hand could quickly be used as a weapon, so this method removed that risk and was a goodwill gesture to show that the meal could continue in peace. It is probably of similar origin to the right-handed handshake, which was also used to show that neither party was carrying a weapon.
> 
> When America was a British colony, this method became generally accepted practice in America, as well.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you so much! I thought there had to be a specific reason because everyone does it. I didn't know what to put to ask a search engine lol!
Ah Steve McQueen, now there was A MAN!


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## exile (Jun 4, 2008)

I wasn't aware of the historical backgroundfor which, many thanks, elder!but I do remember having it explained to me when I was very youngin much simpler terms, of course, lolthat we transfer the fork to the right hand to show that as civilized beings, we are capable of controlling our 'animal' desire to stuff what we have on our forks immediately into our mouths, by going to the unnecessary trouble of transferring the fork to the 'proper' (i.e., right) hand. The idea was, culture trumps naturewe put in the extra step to show that we're capable of postponing gratification in a way that other living things are not. Very Levi-Straussian!


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## DavidCC (Jun 4, 2008)

I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!

After I lived in the UK for a few years, I adopted the knife&fork method.  Much more practical, and with teenagers in the house, you never know when you might need a knife.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 4, 2008)

I really never thought about it much, but I do switch hands a lot.  You mean other people don't?!?  Weird?

Man, I really need to visit England.


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## jks9199 (Jun 4, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!
> 
> After I lived in the UK for a few years, I adopted the knife&fork method.  Much more practical, and with teenagers in the house, you never know when you might need a knife.


Somewhere I read something about makeing an impression during interviews or something like that by eating "European style".  And I just decided it was easier and made more sense to cut, then eat, without switching the knife...


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## CoryKS (Jun 4, 2008)

All I know is that I'm right-handed and it feels weird to transfer food to my mouth with my left hand.


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

When I was a child table etiquette was considered important and when you finished your meal the knife and fork had to be put on the plate together north and south on the plate to show you were finished! it was also important which way you held your knife! "common" people held it like a pen while refined people held the handle with the first finger along the top of the knife, thumb on one side, second finger on the other and the knife handle resting in the palm.
I think these days children rarely eat at a table and many never use cutlery anyway! thanks MacDs! I think many people now just use forks to cut and eat their food with.


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## elder999 (Jun 4, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> When I was a child table etiquette was considered important and when you finished your meal the knife and fork had to be put on the plate together north and south on the plate to show you were finished! it was also important which way you held your knife! "common" people held it like a pen while refined people held the handle with the first finger along the top of the knife, thumb on one side, second finger on the other and the knife handle resting in the palm.


 
We're products of a "much more refined age," Tez. :lol:

Actually, I had to take etiquette classes-including dancing, etc., etc., as a small child-I'm the victim of a classical education: greek, latin, etc., etc., and table etiquette has always been important to my family, though not always practiced: eating ribs and corn on the cob with a knife and fork? That's just plain silly!

Interestingly, I stopped transferring the fork a long time ago, for some reason, and keep the knife in my right hand.....




			
				DavidCC said:
			
		

> I can't beleive somebody actualyl had an answer for that question!!!


 
Yeah, that's me-a JEOPARDY! contestant. I know a lot of **** about nothing...:lol:


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I really never thought about it much, but I do switch hands a lot. You mean other people don't?!? Weird?
> 
> Man, I really need to visit England.


 
Do come over, see if you can make it officially! next year if everything goes right, I'm going to organise a Services MMA competition, I'll invite you as a judge and you can stay at one of the messes here. You can cadge a flight I'm sure lol or the RAF fly from Washington every so often.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 4, 2008)

ummm...

I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.

But then I can use chopsticks too


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> ummm...
> 
> I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.
> 
> *But then I can use chopsticks too*


 

Oooh I so wish I could! I keep meaning to try and practice, I always thought they'd make a good weapon too, bit like skinny kubatans!


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 4, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> Oooh I so wish I could! I keep meaning to try and practice, I always thought they'd make a good weapon too, bit like skinny kubatans!


 
They worked for Jet Li in "The Kiss of the Dragon"


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## DavidCC (Jun 4, 2008)

Chopsticks are one of thsoe things - when you get it, you wonder how you ever didn't.  But until you do, it seems impossible.


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## Steel Tiger (Jun 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> ummm...
> 
> I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.
> 
> But then I can use chopsticks too


 
You would think, being left-handed, I would do this too, but I don't.  I do some times change hand to eat something tricky like peas.


Tez, I don't think the film was the Great Escape because, to the best of my memory, the only person who goes into a cafe or restaurant is James Coburn's character, and he is Australian.  Could have been Force Ten From Navarone (that one's got Harrison Ford).


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## tellner (Jun 4, 2008)

There are two main theories about why Americans eat the way they do. 

One is that it was a sign of Continental sympathy during the Revolutionary war. Another is that the fork came relatively late to America and only really became common in the 19th century. Until then people tended to eat with a knife and spoon. The knife was held in the right hand. The spoon was held in the right hand. This required some juggling which continued on after the fork was widely adopted.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jun 4, 2008)

I remember that movie as a child. I have always cut with my right and use a fork with my left. Maybe it's from that movie.


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## Tez3 (Jun 4, 2008)

tellner said:


> There are two main theories about why Americans eat the way they do.
> 
> One is that it was a sign of Continental sympathy during the Revolutionary war. Another is that the fork came relatively late to America and only really became common in the 19th century. Until then people tended to eat with a knife and spoon. The knife was held in the right hand. The spoon was held in the right hand. This required some juggling which continued on after the fork was widely adopted.


 

I was watching a programme on a Tudor feast and I was surprised at them having no forks but when I looked it up it seems forks weren't around properly or used widely until the 18th century. 
How strange that something so commonplace to us would have seemed strange to people, I assumed forks had been around for at least as long as knives.

The film was a black and white one, it would have been around 1962/3ish. I also remember going to see The Longest Day but am pretty sure it wasn't that film.


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## Steel Tiger (Jun 4, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> I was watching a programme on a Tudor feast and I was surprised at them having no forks but when I looked it up it seems forks weren't around properly or used widely until the 18th century.
> How strange that something so commonplace to us would have seemed strange to people, I assumed forks had been around for at least as long as knives.
> 
> The film was a black and white one, it would have been around 1962/3ish. I also remember going to see The Longest Day but am pretty sure it wasn't that film.


 
I think I may have seen that programme.  Lots of roast meats and plenty of sugar.  Surprising to see that the king usually ate alone contrary to the depictions of Henry VIII.


Interestingly, in China long ago (during the Shang Dynasty I think) they used forks.  But one of the emperors at the time decided it was barbaric and that chopsticks were more refined so he outlawed forks.


Here's a list of war films set in Europe from the early '60s.  Maybe its one of these:
The Guns of Navarone (1961) (setting is the Med.)
Very Important Person (1961) (very enjoyable comedy about British POWs, well worth seeing)
The Longest Day (1962)
Hell Is For Heroes (1962)
The War Lover (1962) (about American bombers crews)
The Great Escape (1963)
The Password is Courage (1963) (the story of Sergeant Major Charles Coward)
The Victors (1963) (Americans in Europe after D-day)
633 Squadron (1963) (occupied Norway)


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 4, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> You would think, being left-handed, I would do this too, but I don't. I do some times change hand to eat something tricky like peas.
> 
> 
> Tez, I don't think the film was the Great Escape because, to the best of my memory, the only person who goes into a cafe or restaurant is James Coburn's character, and he is Australian. Could have been Force Ten From Navarone (that one's got Harrison Ford).


 
Here's the thing. Prior to going to school I was ambidextrous and to some extent I still am. After starting school and learning to write I was pretty much left handed but in my day that was not what you were suppose to be so they pretty much made me right handed by the time I go to 1st grade. My hand writing as a righty is pretty bad and I have been asked why I am writing like I am left handed but I am now a righty when it comes to a lot of things. 

But there is also the possibility that switching utensils would slow me down and I can't have that, I have always been a fast eater.


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## Blindside (Jun 4, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I really never thought about it much, but I do switch hands a lot. You mean other people don't?!? Weird?
> 
> Man, I really need to visit England.


 
Or you could just head north and visit Canada.

Lamont


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## MA-Caver (Jun 4, 2008)

elder999 said:


> I think it's _The Great Escape,_ but I'm not certain-motorcycle chase with Steve McQueen sound familiar?


 It wasn't the Great Escape... I have that on DVD and can say for certain that it's not the film Tez is referring to. I am at a loss as to the name probably because I've never seen it. Such a scene would've stood out in my memory.



Steel Tiger said:


> Here's a list of war films set in Europe from the early '60s.  Maybe its one of these:
> The Guns of Navarone (1961) (setting is the Med.)
> Very Important Person (1961) (very enjoyable comedy about British POWs, well worth seeing)
> The Longest Day (1962)
> ...


There's also: 
 Where Eagles Dare - (1969, Brian G. Hutton, WWII) (Richard Burton, Clint Eastwood)
 Battle of Britain - (1969, Guy Hamilton, WWII) (Michael Caine, R. Shaw, Laurence Olivier)
In Harm's Way - (1965, Otto Preminger, WWII) (John Wayne, Kirk Douglas)
The Blue Max - (1966, John Guillermin, WWI) (George Peppard, James Mason)
Battle of the Bulge - (1965, Ken Annakin, WWII) (Henry Fonda, Robert Shaw)
The Train - (1965, John Frankenheimer, WWII) (Burt Lancaster, Paul Scofield)
Sink the Bismarck - (1960, Lewis Gilbert,WWII) (Kenneth More, Dana Wynter)
The Bridge at Remagen - (1969, John Guillermin, WWII) (George Segal, Robert Vaughn)
Von Ryan's Express - (1965, Mark Robson, WWII) (Frank Sinatra, Trevor Howard)
 633 Squadron - (1964, Walter Grauman, WWII) (Cliff Robertson, Harry Andrews)
The Sand Pebbles - (1966, Robert Wise, China uprising 1926) (Steve McQueen)
Too Late the Hero - (1969, Robert Aldrich, WWII) (Michael Caine, Denholm Elliott)
Operation Crossbow - (1965, Michael Anderson, WWII) (George Peppard, Sophia Loren)
The Naked and the Dead - (1958, Raoul Walsh, WWII) (Aldo Ray, Cliff Robertson) ok ok 1958 but hey close enough... still a great film...  
King Rat - (1965, Bryan Forbes, WWII) (George Segal, Denholm Elliott)
Castle Keep - (1969, Sydney Pollack, WWII) (Burt Lancaster, Peter Falk)
Dr. Strangelove - (1964, Stanley Kubrick, Cold War) (Peter Sellers, George C. Scott)
The Secret War of Harry Frigg - (1968, Jack Smight, WWII) (Paul Newman, Sylva Koscina)
How I Won the War - (1967, Richard Lester, WWII) (Michael Crawford, *John Lennon*)
What Did You Do in the War, Daddy? - (1966, Blake Edwards, WWII) (James Coburn) 

Th-that's about it. :uhyeah: 
Does any of those ring a bell Tez??


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## Fiendlover (Jun 4, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> When I was a child my father would take me to the pictures (the movies) he liked war films and I always remember one where some Allied prisoners of war escaped, got hold of civvie clothes and went on the run in Germany however the American POW was caught because he was eating in a restraurant/cafe where it became very obvious he was an American from his eating habits!
> Ok the question that has been stuck in my head for about 45 years now lol is why do Americans use their knife and fork differently from Europeans? We keep our knives in our right hand, forks in the left hand throughout the meal but Americans cut up their food then swap the fork to the right hand. Is there a specific reason for this, it can't be to keep a weapon hand free unless everyone is lefthanded!
> Put me out of my misery please! :duh:
> 
> Does anyone actually know the film I mean as well?


 
lol i take german class and somebody in class asked why EUROPEANS always eat with there knife in there right hand and there fork with there left lol.  but i never knew why,we Americans, eat the way we do so im glad this question was answered.


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## exile (Jun 4, 2008)

Blindside said:


> Or you could just head north and visit Canada.
> 
> Lamont



Or our home in Columbus, Ohio. My wife's family is old-stock anglophone Canadian, and she actually eats like that! 

She's not amused when I tell her that to me, eating with the left-handed fork, no transfer, is one step up at most from a ravenous pack of starving wolves tearing at the corpse of their prey... (Mark, Irene, I know _you_ won't take offense )


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## Kreth (Jun 4, 2008)

exile said:


> She's not amused when I tell her that to me, eating with the left-handed fork, no transfer, is one step up at most from a ravenous pack of starving wolves tearing at the corpse of their prey... (Mark, Irene, I know _you_ won't take offense )


That's the way I eat, that is when I'm not taking down a deer by biting the jugular. :lol:
I also use chopsticks left-handed. Yabanjin?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 4, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I also use chopsticks left-handed.


 
Now that is something I have to try

Per some Chef form Hong Kong that was asked by some interviewer from the west 

Interviewer: "Why would you go to such great lengths in your cooking and not eat with more civilized utensils like a knife, fork and spoon"

Chef: "We use to eat like barbarians but now we are much more civilized"

Thank you and good night


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 5, 2008)

I cut with my right and use fork with my left and I do not switch things around maybe cause I am left handed and learned to cut with my right.:rofl:

Also being left handed I first learned to use chopsticks right handed being taught that way and it took me a year to learn to use them left handed and in the end I can not use them right handed anymore!:rofl:


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## zDom (Jun 5, 2008)

Sometime over the last decade or so I decided switching back and forth is inefficient.

Surely if I can do all my martial art techniques from both sides, I can do something so simple as use a fork or knife with my off-hand, I told myself.

So for easy cutting, I cut with my left, fork with my right. If the cutting is more difficult  say a steak, for example  I will cut with my right, fork with my left while eating the meat. 

I will transfer fork back to right hand once I'm not cutting, however, as it still FEELS better to use a fork with my right hand.


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## JBrainard (Jun 5, 2008)

I eat with a steak knife in each hand and do sinawallis while I'm chewing


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## Ceicei (Jun 5, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> ummm...
> 
> I cut with my left and hold my fork in the right and don't swap anything around.
> 
> But then I can use chopsticks too



I do this too!


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## punisher73 (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm left handed, and have always put the fork in my left and and cut the food with my right.  I didn't realize until alot later in life that most people switch hands back and forth like that.

I also didn't realize until just now that it is primarily an American thing.


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## CoryKS (Jun 5, 2008)

Irene, which hand do you hold the fork with when you're eating something that doesn't need to be cut?  Does it stay in the left?


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