# fighting a faster opponent



## lonecoyote (Jul 5, 2004)

There is a great thread here about fighting someone who is stronger and bigger, but I think its important to remember that the big guy isn't always the bad guy. There are some truly dangerous and mean smaller guys out there. sometimes the guy who looks like the underdog is actually the sociopathic jerk. Strength and size isn't always much protection against these people either. So how do you beat someone who is probably much faster, and is also tough, crazy, and has some strength too? My two cents- if you aren't sucker punched and are facing each other in a closed stance, step forward into an open stance, slapping your lead leg into the back of their lead leg. use it to immobilize him and you've got the backfist, hook,  and buckling the leg as well as a stepping side to the rear knee and pretty good position for a pivoting aikido style throw. Any thoughts?


----------



## Baoquan (Jul 5, 2004)

Speed only counts over a distance - close the gap, remove the advantage. I rugularly spar with a guy who has amazing foot speed...but it only counts when i'm at that range. As soon as i get inside, speed advantage negated and i monster his speedy little @ss.

 :asian:


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 5, 2004)

Control the elbows for fast-handed opponents.


----------



## lonecoyote (Jul 5, 2004)

Range is definitely the thing. Ring awareness, or room awareness or whatever has sometimes allowed me to back some people into a corner, and gain the inside. How might one control the elbows? And also, getting attacked by a smaller guy just flat is a bad scene. It either looks you're a terrible guy beating up a smaller guy (legal implications)  or a total wimp getting whipped by that little bitty crazy fella. Can't win, really.


----------



## Littledragon (Jul 5, 2004)

Take it to the ground because then speed does not matter.


----------



## Bammx2 (Jul 5, 2004)

Quote: "I'm not fast.....I'm deceptive."      ...........Bruce Lee.

just a little something to ponder......


----------



## kenpo tiger (Jul 5, 2004)

Littledragon said:
			
		

> Take it to the ground because then speed does not matter.


I would not, for a few reasons, not the least of which is that it makes escape that much more difficult.  And, what if this little guy knows what he's doing insofaras grappling is concerned?  

The only way I would want my attacker on the ground is if he's unconscious -- or worse.

Shesulsa - how would you recommend controlling his elbows? KT:asian: 

"Take the measure of your opponent and then give him half again."


----------



## muaythaifreak (Jul 5, 2004)

Littledragon said:
			
		

> Take it to the ground because then speed does not matter.


I disagree with you on that.  A grappler can be fast and furious just like a striker can be.  Little fast guys who can grapple are very hard to deal with.


----------



## Gary Crawford (Jul 5, 2004)

I like the idea of controling the elbows!This situation has too many possible solutions to have one good answer.A smaller or even sized fast guy with a lot of strength is a tough opponent for anyone.Not a good thing to deal with.If you are a really experienced grappler,go ahead,take it to the ground,if your not so good at grappling(no matter how strong you are),avoid that unless there are other people around who might help you.The only decent advice I have for this is fight dirty,use the hardcore targets:shins,stomp the top of his feet,groin,throat or eyes.Question:What do you call a guy who fights fair? Answer:Looser!


----------



## Zepp (Jul 5, 2004)

Being one of the faster, smaller guys myself (I'm 5'7", about 135 lbs.) I'm enjoying just reading this thread. :EG:  I usually get complimented on my speed.  Lemme just say that the bigger guys have the advantage sparring me when they know how to use their longer range and keep me at a distance.

If an opponent is faster than you, and is about your same size, you've got a problem.  If you need to defend yourself in this case, I like Gary's advice.  Fight dirtier than he does.


----------



## Mark Weiser (Jul 6, 2004)

Dusting off the ole Law Enforcement Hat. 

When it comes to fighting people that are faster and "crazy" lol. You have to gain control of the problem.


Hands up in a defensive posture
Use calm voice and redirect opponent from the issue at hand
keep or maintain a safe distance between you and the aggressor.
If the aggressor runs at you or grabs you then you have to raise the bar of response.
Use of PR-22 if you a Police Officer is effective.
For us Civilians we have to use what is available. Chair, Pool Cue, Beer Bottle, Stool, Bartender, your Mother in law if you do not like her. Throw your table over and use it as a barrier until Police arrive lol. Unless the guy is completely insane and leaps over the Table and latches onto you like a leech. Then all H*** breaks loose and you scream "ALL MY GOD!" 
Ask someone to call the Morgue because at this point I think Lethal force is required. 
Sincerely and sitting in the corner watching for bad guys and gals,
Mark E. Weiser


----------



## Han-Mi (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm one of those smaller faster guys.:ultracool 

My suggestion would be to get into your most comfortable fighting situation; i.e. ground for grapplers, close standing for strikers, distance for kickers. That way at least you are comfortable and at your full fighitng potential. Then, If you can take a hit, go in for a full attack and get them off balance. Without balance, everything is gone, including speed. Granted you may have to take some punishment for this one. If you have better timing though, just use that, I am a big advocate of timing, the observation and mental reaction before normal standards, over power and speed.


----------



## 8253 (Jul 6, 2004)

Ground fighting is an excellent damper to their speed.


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 6, 2004)

First of all, ground fighters can be quick on the ground - it's what they work for - so taking someone to the ground doesn't necessarily take their speed away, AND once things get the gound, it gets nastier anyway.

 If you have to get in tight with a fast-handed fighter, you need to keep your face covered, of course, and while your hands are up, close the gap and get closer in and block at the elbows till you tie 'em up, then slam them - tying up the arms opens the ribs, kidneys, makes the knees more susceptible - rake the shin, stomp the feet, whatever is appropriate for the situation.  This works better, of course, if you can sandwich the opponent to the wall or some object behind them, but you can still tie up the arms to the elbow with some good evasion and blocking skill.

 HWARANG!


----------



## OC Kid (Jul 6, 2004)

I believe stand in a nuetral stance or maybe one foot fwd

Take you right hand and place it palm to palm with your enemy. 

Then move it up and down in a movement perpendicular to the ground.

Next you both move rigorously to a local Starbucks and buy each other a cafe mocha. Then talks about your kids/school ect.

The only time speed really effects this technique is how fast you can reach your hand out to touch his.


----------



## kenpo tiger (Jul 6, 2004)

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> Dusting off the ole Law Enforcement Hat.
> 
> When it comes to fighting people that are faster and "crazy" lol. You have to gain control of the problem.
> 
> ...


Yes, that has worked for me twice now.  Luckily for me -- and the potential attacker.

As to all the other suggestions to 'fighting dirty' -- that's kenpo.  And we don't consider it fighting dirty - just intelligently!:ultracool 

Seriously, thanks for the good advice, except for the Starbuck's lattes - too many calories. KT


----------



## Littledragon (Jul 6, 2004)

muaythaifreak said:
			
		

> I disagree with you on that. A grappler can be fast and furious just like a striker can be. Little fast guys who can grapple are very hard to deal with.


Ye well I am talking about you being a grappler and getting the little guy down, if he is little and fast just use yoru strength to choke him out.

If it is a quick grappler then it will be tricky but you can still use your own grappling skill and strength to overcome them.

I will not play tag with him standing up. I will just choke him out.


----------



## ppko (Jul 6, 2004)

Littledragon said:
			
		

> Ye well I am talking about you being a grappler and getting the little guy down, if he is little and fast just use yoru strength to choke him out.
> 
> If it is a quick grappler then it will be tricky but you can still use your own grappling skill and strength to overcome them.
> 
> I will not play tag with him standing up. I will just choke him out.


If we are talking about actuall street fighting I wouldn't recomend taking them to the ground as you don't know if the person has friends around or if there is anything on the ground that can hurt you.  The best way to beat a faster opponent in my oppinion is to try and attack them and keep them on there toes, hopefully you can end the fight rather quickly.  Littledragon you are farelly knowledgeable for your age you just lack experience, I have enjoyed your posts and hope that you keep writing them.

Best Regards
PPKO


----------



## captnigh (Jul 6, 2004)

I would be hesitant to go to the ground in a street situation unless I was positive the threat of his friends jumping in was negated....
You can get this guy in the best choke or lock in the world, but if his friends are lurking around you will get your head kicked in......


----------



## ppko (Jul 6, 2004)

captnigh said:
			
		

> I would be hesitant to go to the ground in a street situation unless I was positive the threat of his friends jumping in was negated....
> You can get this guy in the best choke or lock in the world, but if his friends are lurking around you will get your head kicked in......


my point exactly.

PPKO


----------



## Littledragon (Jul 6, 2004)

ppko said:
			
		

> If we are talking about actuall street fighting I wouldn't recomend taking them to the ground as you don't know if the person has friends around or if there is anything on the ground that can hurt you. The best way to beat a faster opponent in my oppinion is to try and attack them and keep them on there toes, hopefully you can end the fight rather quickly. *Littledragon you are farelly knowledgeable for your age you just lack experience, I have enjoyed your posts and hope that you keep writing them.*
> 
> Best Regards
> PPKO


Thank you.


----------



## Tony (Jul 7, 2004)

I noticed when I've been sparring that no one can spar conintuously for great lengths of time so its a matter of anticipating when the attack is coming and attack as your opponent is preparing his attack.
I noticed last night my partner was using feints but it was so obvious he was just about to attack me and I took advantage of that and attacked first.
And when you do get in close use knees. It was quite funny last night as it was turing into a  Muay Thai fight because we had beend using round kicks and then we were allowed to use knees.


----------



## The Kai (Jul 7, 2004)

faster guys (or gals) tend to be smaller, use range against him.  When he tries to set kicking range, you use long range hand techniques.  When he goes to hand techniques clinch him and use your weight to your advantage.  Works well, unless the other guy is savvy

Todd


----------



## 7starmantis (Jul 7, 2004)

I think the key is feeling your opponent. Close the gap and get in close. If you stay connected with him/her you will feel what they are going to do before they pull it off, thus allowing you to be either out of the way, or attacking yourself. You can stay connected at the elbows and use their own force against them putting them off balance and thus open for your own attack. It doesn't matter how fast they are if you can feel where their energy is going and be out of the way when it gets there.

7sm


----------



## Tony (Jul 7, 2004)

7* sounds like principles from Chi sau. Its unfortunate a lot of systems don't really do this  as Taekwondo seems to be mainly a kicking art so hard to get close if your opponent is a good kicker because he can keep you at a distance with his legs.
Last night i was actually beginning to use some of the Mantis form moves while lightly sparring. Mantis is very fast with very fast hand speed.
We were even learning about the pressure point techniques involved in the form.
I remember a  story of Bruce Lee back in the days when he lived in Hong Kong how he defeated a boxer. He was boxing aswell but basically using his Wing Chun skills to beat the other guy.


----------



## OC Kid (Jul 7, 2004)

Ive been talking over and over about wakling away and making friends with my/your enemy. I still think that is the way. Enemies have friends they will come after you no matter how big a jerk there friend is. So fighting you just create more fighting but if you have to, no other way out

Then,  all fighting whether it be against a faster opponent, stronger opponent, multiple attackers, whatever boils down to 3 things only,
1) Timing
2) Distancing
3) Footwork

The technique to be used is based on the DISTANCE, striking with the technique is based on the TIMING setting up the technique is based on the 
FOOTWORK
Inna nutshell there is nothing else left regardless of system whether MMA TMA CMA what ever nothing else.
If you miss one of those or your enemy has better, you might as well go home and forget it .
I personally would rather just by them a cafe mocha and talk about whats playing at the movies....


----------



## nijima2000 (Feb 21, 2016)

I personally would prefer not to take this fight to the ground. Even a smaller opponent can put you in a choke hold or pressure lock if the opportunity is available (I'm pretty sure the ground is like choke hold central). I would much prefer to wait, if they want to fight, they'll attack. If they can hit you then chances are you can hit them (unless you have really stubby arms and legs XD). If you prefect your timing, you can deal the deciding blow quickly and efficiently. My advice is, just don't chase them. Fight the battle of your terms, if they run, you win. If they stay, they've just made the mistake of fighting by your term. Be smart, be patient, be deadly.

any thoughts would be much appreciated.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Feb 21, 2016)

This is a 12 year old thread.


----------



## nijima2000 (Feb 21, 2016)

lalz, I think it is still a good question.


----------



## marques (Feb 22, 2016)

lonecoyote said:


> There is a great thread here about fighting someone who is stronger and bigger (...) how do you beat someone who is probably much faster, and is also tough, crazy, and has some strength too? (...) Any thoughts?


Big (strong) and untrained guys hate short distance. The thing here is to close distance without a punch.
Faster? Short, economic movements. Feints.
Tough, like Fedor? Forget.
Crazy? You're dead before seeing the crazy...


----------



## marques (Feb 22, 2016)

> This is a 12 year old thread.


There is always new people to discuss. New people with the same old questions. Eventually, new answers...


----------



## JR 137 (Feb 22, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> This is a 12 year old thread.



And easily the best thread I've seen in quite some time.


----------



## JR 137 (Feb 23, 2016)

My 2 cents...

Unless you're reasonably sure there won't be outside interference, stay on your feet.  I have several years of wrestling experience and a few more of coaching it (on the mat, not sitting in a chair), so I'm not uncomfortable with it.

On the ground, you're a sitting duck.  You're open to a bottle in the back of the head in the mount, a kick in the face in the guard, etc.  Obviously you're open to attacks from others while standing, but you're in a far better situation to get away.  Engaging in a jujitsu match in the bar, outside the bar or anywhere else in public should be a last resort.  A single intruder in your home, in the cage, competition, one on one in a parking lot is a different matter.

And please, let's not get into a semantic debate about self defense vs fighting.  If you're attacked and have no other options, it's self defense; call it whatever else you want.

With a faster opponent, it's all about getting off the line of attack, using and creating angles.  Ducking, slipping, "bobbing and weaving," etc.  Stand toe to toe with them, and you're asking for trouble.  This is pretty much universally true though.  

Use angles, weather the storm, and create openings.  Don't wait for them to stop to counter, because you won't get the chance to.  If the punch is half way there, it's usually already too late to move and counter effectively.


----------



## Buka (Feb 23, 2016)

Better timing beats better speed. Every single time. (see what I did there?)

But it does.


----------



## crazydiamond (Feb 23, 2016)

Close the distance - standing  clinches, or locks,  joint manipulations , or chokes

or...

"hey its the cops!" - pointing behind speedy who pivots his view ...whack !


----------



## Lameman (Mar 22, 2016)

What I am not seeing a lot here, Stop, take a look at who you are fighting. There are a lot of different types of small fast guys. I'm 6'5" 350lbs. I don't like to fight 'em. But if you have to, and you have the time, take a look at your opponant. Where are their callouses? What is their stance? Keep in mind fast doesn't always mean powerful. Also, if you are slow and need a little speed, try using less, smaller movements. You can often outpace a quicker opponant who isn't using a good movement budget. My favorite thing to do, if they are a strong fighter, and you can safely go to ground, so not a street fight, back off and sit down. As Sun Tzu said, if you have to fight a stronger opponant, adopt a defencive position, and put something confusing in between. If your opponant is on his feet and you are no your back. You have a good base to both defend and attack. Further, most people are not used to fighting a sitting opponant. In the end there are no advantages, only people you don't know how to fight. Any opponant you can catch off guard, you can defeat.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Mar 22, 2016)

Buka said:


> Better timing beats better speed. Every single time. (see what I did there?)
> 
> But it does.


Timing mechanisms increase your over-all speed, which is a religious term, for moving fast and doing it well.


----------



## DaveB (Mar 23, 2016)

Buka said:


> Better timing beats better speed. Every single time. (see what I did there?)
> 
> But it does.





Touch Of Death said:


> Timing mechanisms increase your over-all speed, which is a religious term, for moving fast and doing it well.



Following on from this line and contrary.to most of the advice thus far, I believe that against a faster opponent you need to create space and counter attack his attempts to close. 

Someone suggested destroying balance to remove speed and a great way to do this is a thrust/stop kick into the shin of an advancing opponent. 

Another tactic for us larger blokes is to "bully" the opponent. When I first started boxing I was chastised for having such precise techniques. I was told to sell my punches, putting weight and shoulder in to intimidate and unbalance the people I was fighting. It works really well unless the opponent is both skilled and composed. And if they have that as well as speed your not going to win anyway. 

This is not to say that closing and grappling won't work, but the above is the striking option.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 23, 2016)

Creating space forces the faster guy to use longer movements to hit you. So it is a method that can work.

Staying conservative and not trying to strike around corners will also help.


----------



## Hanzou (Mar 23, 2016)

As a larger person, taking them to the ground and pinning/choking/locking them is always an option.


----------



## JR 137 (Mar 26, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> As a larger person, taking them to the ground and pinning/choking/locking them is always an option.



That's an option for a larger, smaller, or equal sized person.  But everything has its time and place.  In a parking lot, alley, or anywhere else that you're reasonably sure there won't be outside help from his buddies, have at it.  In the middle of a bar, outside the bar, or anywhere else where there's a crowd, not very wise.  I've seen more than enough kicks to the face/head and bottles to the back of the head of ground fighters.

Yes, while standing, you absolutely have the risk of being attacked from behind you from his friends.  But at least you're not a sitting duck and can get away quicker.  Engaging in a jujitsu match in where there's a good chance of outside interference is suicide IMO.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 26, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> That's an option for a larger, smaller, or equal sized person.  But everything has its time and place.  In a parking lot, alley, or anywhere else that you're reasonably sure there won't be outside help from his buddies, have at it.  In the middle of a bar, outside the bar, or anywhere else where there's a crowd, not very wise.  I've seen more than enough kicks to the face/head and bottles to the back of the head of ground fighters.
> 
> Yes, while standing, you absolutely have the risk of being attacked from behind you from his friends.  But at least you're not a sitting duck and can get away quicker.  Engaging in a jujitsu match in where there's a good chance of outside interference is suicide IMO.



Go look a sucker punch compilation. Standing up is really not the determining factor.


----------



## Lameman (Mar 27, 2016)

The last three people who tried to sucker punch me, one inverted elbow, one dislocated shoulder, and one slit wrist. Two of those were not important fights. It was all just reflex. If I don't see it coming, I've trained with assumed maximum threat. Sucker punches don't work on everyone. What is important, know your situation, know your opponant(s), know yourself. If these things are all known, the fight will tend to be rather one sided.


----------



## JR 137 (Mar 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Go look a sucker punch compilation. Standing up is really not the determining factor.



What does a sucker punch have to do with the thread?  I was commenting on facing a faster opponent.

I also said "Yes, while standing you absolutely have the risk of being attacked by his friends..."  Pretty much covers the sucker punch, right?

If you're arguing being on the ground makes you less susceptible, I disagree.  Perhaps from an actual punch to the face.  I've seen far more sucker punch-esque stuff thrown at people in the mount and guard than when they're standing, proportionately speaking.


----------



## Lameman (Mar 27, 2016)

These generic, "how do you fight a short, fat, cross-eyed, bald man with a gimpy arm" bs only helps for the first few seconds, and only if your pre-judgement is accurate. Which in my experience... hasn't been. How often have you gone into a fight, completely ignorant of your opponant, and they fought exactly as expected? Everything will work some of the time. The trick is knowing what will work this time. Yo learn that , by understanding yourself. Study, structure, how weight is carried and how it moves. Energy how you gather, store, move, release, recieve. Then you put those together and get movement potential. Know all of your options at any given pico-second. Once you can see those three things in yourself, seeing them in an opponant becomes second nature. No matter how good you are at hiding your intent, your body will tell your secrets. From there, phychology. Learn to recognize how they like to fight and defend. Combine with the first three things, now you are several moves ahead. Screw tells I know what you will do when. You no longer can hit me and I can hit with impunity. That is fighting. Techniques are just a means to an end.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 27, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> What does a sucker punch have to do with the thread?  I was commenting on facing a faster opponent.
> 
> I also said "Yes, while standing you absolutely have the risk of being attacked by his friends..."  Pretty much covers the sucker punch, right?
> 
> If you're arguing being on the ground makes you less susceptible, I disagree.  Perhaps from an actual punch to the face.  I've seen far more sucker punch-esque stuff thrown at people in the mount and guard than when they're standing, proportionately speaking.







Yeah but your personal experience doesn't really reflect the amount of people who get attacked by third party combatants while standing.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yeah but your personal experience doesn't really reflect the amount of people who get attacked by third party combatants while standing.


I think the salient point is that you can be sucker punched standing or on the ground. If I'm standing, I can release the first guy to evade the punch if I see it. On the ground tied up with someone, I can't move to evade a kick, and that kick can be much harder to block well. All in all, I'm better off up than down if a second attacker enters the fight. If I don't see them, I'm probably just as likely to get hit in either case. However, I'd still give a slight edge to the standing situation there, too, since most people can kick to KO much more effectively than they can punch to KO, so I have a marginally higher chance of getting to respond.

Of course, if you're a ground-grappler first, then that changes the dynamics - perhaps on the ground is better in almost any case (leaving out the extremes like broken glass). You'd be more in control of the situation down there, and more likely to end it before a second attacker decides to step in. I think it's a matter of degrees, rather than huge differences. I'd be hard pressed to say that a generic person is just as safe on the ground (or "just as screwed standing") if a second attacker steps in, but the difference may not be as extreme as gut reaction implies.


----------



## JR 137 (Mar 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yeah but your personal experience doesn't really reflect the amount of people who get attacked by third party combatants while standing.



I've seen A TON of people standing get sucker punched.  Trust me, I haven't seen any shortage of it.  Two guys standing and fighting each other, someone else gets into the mix quite often.  Completely unverifiable number here - about half the time.  How often has someone kicked a guy in the guard, hit a guy in the mount in the back of the head with a bottle, etc.?  About 99% of the time; again completely unverifiable.

I saw a lot of stuff bartending in college bars on weekend nights for the better part of 10 years, and being a guy in the bar for quite a few years too.

What I saw over the years could be a completely isolated thing, or it could be indicative of everywhere.  No idea.  I just know what I saw.  Over and over again.  Same things happened at concerts, festivals, etc.  Maybe times have changed, as I haven't frequented bars in the last 10+ years, but I doubt everything has changed that much. 

From what I've seen and where I've been, if an intruder came into my house, attacked me in a parking lot with no one else around, etc., I'd take him down or throw him using stuff I learned wrestling, and mount and fire punches like there's no tomorrow until the threat was completely neutralized.  No doubt about it.

Whenever I've had no choice but fight inside or outside the bar or other public places, I've made sure I stayed on my feet and could easily face anyone else coming at me.  Have I been blindsided by someone else?  Absolutely.  Was I able to get out of the way to avoid follow ups?  Absolutely.  I wouldn't have that luxury on the ground.  About 10 years of wrestling and 6 more of coaching on the mat gives me enough experience with grappling to know I can't get easily away from repeated kicks to my head while I'm grappling with someone.  I'm pretty much stuck.  And I think there's a psychological thing that tells people to jump in when the fight goes to the ground far more than when 2 people are standing.  But that's another thread. 

For me, the best place to be in a fight is on my feet with my opponent on the ground, conscious or unconscious. 

All my personal experience and opinions.  I'm sure others have contradicting experience.  Go with what you've seen, not what you've heard.  I'm just one of the countless guys on countless forums.


----------



## Hanzou (Mar 28, 2016)

The moral of the story is don't fight more than one person if you can help it.

If you do end up fighting more than one person, do everything in your power to disable as many of them as possible. That may require an arm or leg break on the ground.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 28, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> As a larger person, taking them to the ground and pinning/choking/locking them is always an option.





gpseymour said:


> I think the salient point is that you can be sucker punched standing or on the ground. If I'm standing, I can release the first guy to evade the punch if I see it. On the ground tied up with someone, I can't move to evade a kick, and that kick can be much harder to block well. All in all, I'm better off up than down if a second attacker enters the fight. If I don't see them, I'm probably just as likely to get hit in either case. However, I'd still give a slight edge to the standing situation there, too, since most people can kick to KO much more effectively than they can punch to KO, so I have a marginally higher chance of getting to respond.
> 
> Of course, if you're a ground-grappler first, then that changes the dynamics - perhaps on the ground is better in almost any case (leaving out the extremes like broken glass). You'd be more in control of the situation down there, and more likely to end it before a second attacker decides to step in. I think it's a matter of degrees, rather than huge differences. I'd be hard pressed to say that a generic person is just as safe on the ground (or "just as screwed standing") if a second attacker steps in, but the difference may not be as extreme as gut reaction implies.



It is situational. Giving up a takedown and potentially free shots in gnp.  Vs maybe being trapped on the deck.


----------



## JR 137 (Mar 28, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> The moral of the story is don't fight more than one person if you can help it.
> 
> If you do end up fighting more than one person, do everything in your power to disable as many of them as possible. That may require an arm or leg break on the ground.



There's several morals of the story...

Don't fight anyone if you can avoid it.
The situation will dictate how you address it.
Watch your back, and count on someone else watching your opponent's back.  
Do what you know; don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole.  If you don't know submission (I don't), don't work for a tap out; if you don't know how to strike, don't get into a Muay Thai match.
End it as quickly, efficiency and quietly as possible.

So much easier said than done.


----------



## Lameman (Mar 29, 2016)

And those are pretty much the rules as I was taught them. An if you can learn to do breaks and dislocations, one handed, while standing, that's a lot better then doing it on the ground and lets you keep your guard up against the impending bat to the head. True story.


----------



## Skullpunch (Apr 3, 2016)

Depending on the situation and your skillset your best bet is probably something along the lines of the following.

1)  Takedown and dominate on the ground.

2)  Bully him from the clinch

3)  Focus your attack on the body and the legs as you force him into a corner or whatever else is available to obstruct his movement.

If you don't want to be on the ground for fear of potential accomplices, a combination of 2 and 3 is what I would do.  On the outside I would utilize some movement and force him to come to me - he has to go through my range in order to get into his range so with proper timing I can land on his legs and body which will deplete his movement and stamina.  By the time he gets into his range I can tie up and bully him from the clinch, where his speed advantage will be anywhere from depleted to negated and fighting your way out of a clinch against a larger, skilled opponent tends to drain a lot of stamina which will further negate the speed advantage.

This strategy is similar to what they call "making a muddy track" in boxing, where your opponent is a sprinter and his speed can pose problems but you can negate the speed advantage by not giving him a solid track to run on, make it muddy by cutting off the ring which gives you a degree of control over his movement, and work the body and utilize clinch work to drain his stramina.


----------

