# Jim Mitchell Kenpo Systems



## Sapper6 (Jul 19, 2007)

Anybody got any information on Jim Mitchell, other than what is posted on the net?  A friend of mine expressed an interest in checking out his Kenpo school in Springfield.  Apparently, just because I study MA, he thinks I should know the who, what, where, when, and why about this guy's system.

All I could really tell him is that:

1. he was an original Parker black belt.
2. aided Parker in putting EPAK of the '80's on video
3. did some photos for the Infinite Insights series.
4. was ejected from the IKKA (i'd really like to hear the details of this)

other than that (found on the net), that's all i can tell him.

what say you?


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## Doc (Jul 19, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> Anybody got any information on Jim Mitchell, other than what is posted on the net?  A friend of mine expressed an interest in checking out his Kenpo school in Springfield.  Apparently, just because I study MA, he thinks I should know the who, what, where, when, and why about this guy's system.
> 
> All I could really tell him is that:
> 
> ...


Interesting how people continually ask for information before they spend their money, doing their homework on service providers as the4 y should. How strange. Some think we should just say nice things about everyone over in LaLa Land.

He was Not an original Parker Black Belt. He came from the Tracy's.

He did work on putting his ideas on video of the entire system, assisting Ed Parker. The video was never officially released.

Confirmed he posed for some of the pictures in the first couple of volumes of Infinite Insights.

Parker rarely ejected anyone from the IKKA, (although there was one very notable exception to that), he allowed that they would usually quit or resign on their own.

Tell your friend to go visit the school and see if he likes what he sees, and ask all the questions he would like answered.


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## Sapper6 (Jul 21, 2007)

Doc said:


> Interesting how people continually ask for information before they spend their money, doing their homework on service providers as the4 y should. How strange. Some think we should just say nice things about everyone over in LaLa Land.
> 
> *(1) He was Not an original Parker Black Belt. He came from the Tracy's.*
> 
> ...


 
(1) I'm guessing that means he was 1st black prior to studying under Mr. Parker?  What degrees of black did Parker promote Mr. Mitchell to?

(2) Was that "notable exception" Mr. Mitchell?  On topic, what were the circumstances surrounding Mitchell leaving the IKKA?  There is a website out there that claims Mr. Mitchell was banned from the IKKA for apparently orchestrating a mass exodus from Parker; which Parker found out about subsequently booted Mitchell from the organization.

IMHO, there is not alot of positive-minded material out there about Jim Mitchell.  Why?  From an outsider's POV, it seems almost like the guy has been banished from the Kenpo community.  Is this what the so-called "Kenpo politics" is all about?

I'm certainly not one to point fingers, just looking for insight from those that were there.  It's got me interested as well.

The guy (Mitchell) couldn't be all that bad, seeing how Parker felt he was the guy to record on video the system at that time, right?  He had to have some level of trust in the guy, a personal relationship, correct?

This whole thing has got me thinking; Jim Mitchell: A Victim of Kenpo Politics?

For the record, my above comments are NOT at all a result of Mr. Chapel's response in this thread.  They are a result of a ton of websites that I've run across over the past couple days, searching threads on this board, and emailing "people of the know".  None of which shed a positive light of Jim Mitchell.  It's got me wondering; but at the same time, nobody seems to offer any clear logic why that is so.  Any takers?


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## Sapper6 (Jul 22, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> Any takers?


 
Guess not...


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## Seabrook (Jul 23, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> (1) I'm guessing that means he was 1st black prior to studying under Mr. Parker? What degrees of black did Parker promote Mr. Mitchell to?
> 
> (2) Was that "notable exception" Mr. Mitchell? On topic, what were the circumstances surrounding Mitchell leaving the IKKA? There is a website out there that claims Mr. Mitchell was banned from the IKKA for apparently orchestrating a mass exodus from Parker; which Parker found out about subsequently booted Mitchell from the organization.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know why the above is so relevant. It is 2007. 

Have your friend visit as many schools as he would like in his area, and see which one he prefers in terms of training methods, and which peaks his interest. 

See how often the school owner actually teaches. Also, avoid schools that have full classes of children wearing black belts.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 23, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> (1) I'm guessing that means he was 1st black prior to studying under Mr. Parker? What degrees of black did Parker promote Mr. Mitchell to?
> 
> (2) Was that "notable exception" Mr. Mitchell? On topic, what were the circumstances surrounding Mitchell leaving the IKKA? There is a website out there that claims Mr. Mitchell was banned from the IKKA for apparently orchestrating a mass exodus from Parker; which Parker found out about subsequently booted Mitchell from the organization.
> 
> ...


If you are not sure what happened, why are you dissing the politics of the aftermath? Go ask the people involved.
Sean


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## Sapper6 (Jul 24, 2007)

Mr. Seabrook,

Good advice, thanks again.  My coworker has decided to go a different route all together with a shootfighting school in the area.

Sean,

I think you misunderstood my intent altogether.  I wasn't "dissing" anything.

In doing a guy a favor, I think some people misunderstood my intentions behind this thread.  This wasn't about re-hashing the past or digging up dirt on someone.  It was about fact finding, which didn't take place and the information isn't necessary any more anyway.  I felt it was pretty relevant to know why Mr. Mitchell was apparently "kicked out" of the IKKA. (That is, if he was to begin with)  The specifics are not available on the web but I was hoping to get some insight from people here.  Oh well.  

If someone was "rarely" kicked out from the IKKA, then something of major proportions had to happen for that to take place.  Wouldn't people know about it?  If I were to become a student of someone, I would want to know that.  Telling a guy to call the individual in question and ask him "Why did you get kicked out of the IKKA?", I feel, is pretty unprofessional and doesn't really make a good first impression.  My bad for inquiring.  I've emailed two "individuals" who openly state on their website that Jim Mitchell was banned from the IKKA, asking Why.  As of today, they have yet to respond.  I think I have my answer.

_**Note to self, stop doing favors for people.**_ 



Cheers!


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 24, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> Mr. Seabrook,
> 
> Good advice, thanks again. My coworker has decided to go a different route all together with a shootfighting school in the area.
> 
> ...


The question is not the issue. The answers are the issue.
Sean


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## Sapper6 (Jul 24, 2007)

No worries TOD, the friend in question chose an different route with groundfighting.  i don't know why the hell he'd go and do such an ignorant thing.:idunno:  

the questions or answers are not real important.  the _"now"_ is what's most important.

thanks again guys.


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## Doc (Jul 26, 2007)

While I applaud those who do their homework before jumping in a pool, it is important that in most instances we undersatnd we are soliciting opinions. The place to start is always by getting a first person impression of the individual in question. This in itself should could generate questions that can be addressed directly. If all questions are not answered, or generate questions that require further research and investigation, then coming to a forum may be a next step in the process. 

I tend to correct misinformation, but refrain from publicly disparaging anyone personally as generally counter-productive and unneccessary. Sometimes a simple explanation of the truth is sufficient in and of itself to lead you in the right direction, but it is a fine line.

I love MartialTalk/KenpoTalk and the level of civility enforced by its owners and moderators. To do otherwise would turn a well run forum into the bastion of vile found in other sites we all know very well.

I know that I was not your intent, but the combination of zeal to do a friend a favor, combined with human curiosity can lead you down that road unintentionally.


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## Sapper6 (Jul 26, 2007)

Doc said:


> While I applaud those who do their homework before jumping in a pool, it is important that in most instances we undersatnd we are soliciting opinions. The place to start is always by getting a first person impression of the individual in question. This in itself should could generate questions that can be addressed directly. If all questions are not answered, or generate questions that require further research and investigation, then coming to a forum may be a next step in the process.


 
while at first this may seem true, it was not my intent to solicit opinion, but rather, truth from people who were there at the time. however, as time goes on, truth becomes slanted opinion. like i stated before, walking into a man's school and asking confrontational questions is not always the best option, hence posing the question in forum to begin with.



> I tend to correct misinformation, but refrain from publicly disparaging anyone personally as generally counter-productive and unneccessary. Sometimes a simple explanation of the truth is sufficient in and of itself to lead you in the right direction, but it is a fine line.


 
agreed 100%



> I love MartialTalk/KenpoTalk and the level of civility enforced by its owners and moderators. To do otherwise would turn a well run forum into the bastion of vile found in other sites we all know very well.


 
agreed to an extent. the "bastion of vile" still exists, just a lesser volume. "Kenpolitics" is everywhere, regardless of location.



> I know that it was not your intent, but the combination of zeal to do a friend a favor, combined with human curiosity can lead you down that road unintentionally.


 
in the end, just another learning lesson for me. what strikes me as odd, though, is that a number of high ranking Kenpoists will post derogatory comments in public about a man, but refuse to back up their comments when asked about it on a more personal level (via email). in searching MartialTalk, I found a plethora of posts about Mr. Mitchell, alot of which were negative in nature. but when asked about the "why" behind their statements, silence is the only answer. that's odd.

thanks for taking the time to provide your insight Mr. Chapel. your post says alot. i got the answer i was looking for.

very respectfully,

:asian:


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## Doc (Jul 26, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> while at first this may seem true, it was not my intent to solicit opinion, but rather, truth from people who were there at the time. however, as time goes on, truth becomes slanted opinion. like i stated before, walking into a man's school and asking confrontational questions is not always the best option, hence posing the question in forum to begin with.


Unfortunately it is all perspective driven. I know of some who say they were there, but weren't. What can you do? It's a bout a rep I guess.



> The "bastion of vile" still exists, just a lesser volume. "Kenpolitics" is everywhere, regardless of location.


You're definitely right about that sir.


> What strikes me as odd, though, is that a number of high ranking Kenpoists will post derogatory comments in public about a man, but refuse to back up their comments when asked about it on a more personal level (via email).


Perhaps those "high" ranks aren't as high as you think? "Yipes. stripes!" 


> in searching MartialTalk, I found a plethora of posts about Mr. Mitchell, alot of which were negative in nature. but when asked about the "why" behind their statements, silence is the only answer. that's odd.


As I said before sir, it is always a fine line. But, if you're going to do that, you should be ready and willing to state "why" you feel that way even if it's off line. I get jammed when I say something, and even when I don't, so .... 


> thanks for taking the time to provide your insight Mr. Chapel. your post says alot. I got the answer i was looking for.
> very respectfully,


That's all that matters sir.


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## Thesemindz (Jul 27, 2007)

Doc said:


> While I applaud those who do their homework before jumping in a pool, it is important that in most instances we undersatnd we are soliciting opinions. The place to start is always by getting a first person impression of the individual in question. This in itself should could generate questions that can be addressed directly. If all questions are not answered, or generate questions that require further research and investigation, then coming to a forum may be a next step in the process.
> 
> I tend to correct misinformation, but refrain from publicly disparaging anyone personally as generally counter-productive and unneccessary. Sometimes a simple explanation of the truth is sufficient in and of itself to lead you in the right direction, but it is a fine line.
> 
> ...


 
Doc, I don't disagree with you at all here, but in this particular case, I think it would be inadvisable, and perhaps even unsafe, to walk into any of Mr. Mitchell's schools, and that school specifically, and ask questions of him or his instructors about why he was kicked out of the IKKA. I think that line of questioning would be met with open hostility and would at the very least make it impossible to train there if that was one's goal.

Now, that being said, I think that response would certainly give the student an idea of what kind of experience they would be purchasing with their tuition dollar. And in that sense, would no doubt be the best way to get an answer to the larger question of whether or not one wants to train there. 

Generally speaking, I agree with your point that the best source for information is the original source. But I wouldn't send someone into the lions den to ask him why he ate the christians. I think Sapper would have been better served if he had continued to pursue this offline. 

Sapper, your questions, while I have no doubt were well intentioned in your pursuit for knowledge, were essentially asking people to post negative commentary about an active "tenth degree" kenpo martial artist. Some people will do that. People with class probably won't. Regardless of their opinion. If you still seek knowledge, continue to pursue it privately, either through email or phone contacts, you will probably find your answers eventually. The information is out there.


-Rob


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## Sapper6 (Jul 27, 2007)

Thesemindz said:


> I think Sapper would have been better served if he had continued to pursue this offline.
> 
> Sapper, your questions, while I have no doubt were well intentioned in your pursuit for knowledge, were essentially asking people to post negative commentary about an active "tenth degree" kenpo martial artist. Some people will do that. People with class probably won't. Regardless of their opinion. If you still seek knowledge, continue to pursue it privately, either through email or phone contacts, you will probably find your answers eventually. The information is out there.
> 
> ...


 
the whole thing is moot.  i didn't and still don't care why.  what i do care about is people posting negative comments about any individual and not backing it up with why.  if someone is prepared to make a statement, they should provide reasons.  like Mr. Chapel pointed out, this is most likely just personal perspective.  but i also believe personal perspective should not be sold as truth.

i never asked anyone to post negative commentary.  i posed a question in a forum where there are several long-time Kenpoists present, hoping they could provide the answer.  like i said before, i got the answer i was looking for.  not from here though.  i got it from the lack of reply when emailing the people making the derogatory remark.

i don't seek the information anymore.

personally, while i think actions of the past could have a bearing on the present, i don't think it should be the deciding factor.  the _now _is what is most important.  is they guy qualified to teach you?  does he give you the tools necessary to succeed?  are you getting your monies worth?  none of these were ever in question, and that is all that should matter.


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## Thesemindz (Jul 27, 2007)

Sapper6 said:


> the whole thing is moot. i didn't and still don't care why. what i do care about is people posting negative comments about any individual and not backing it up with why. if someone is prepared to make a statement, they should provide reasons. like Mr. Chapel pointed out, this is most likely just personal perspective. but i also believe personal perspective should not be sold as truth.
> 
> i never asked anyone to post negative commentary. i posed a question in a forum where there are several long-time Kenpoists present, hoping they could provide the answer. like i said before, i got the answer i was looking for. not from here though. i got it from the lack of reply when emailing the people making the derogatory remark.
> 
> ...


 

I know man. And I know we're beating a dead horse here. I wasn't trying to come down on you or reprimand you. I was just saying that since something negative happened, in order to tell the story, they'd have to retell the negative events that proceeded it. I'm not blaming you or anything, and I totally understand that this whole thing has gone way beyond your original interest, which wasn't even really _your_ interest to begin with.


-Rob


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