# McDonalds Obesity Lawsuit Thrown Out!



## arnisador (Sep 4, 2003)

You can eat your fries again, folks!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...71&e=1&u=/nm/20030904/hl_nm/food_mcdonalds_dc



> A federal judge on Thursday threw out a revised lawsuit against McDonald's Corp. that accused the world's biggest fast-food company of using misleading advertising to lure children into eating unhealthy foods that make them fat.


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 4, 2003)

I very rarely eat there. Having looked at their website and nutritional value I have not been back to a fast food restaurant yet.


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## don bohrer (Sep 4, 2003)

For loosing the lawsuit.... Death by bigmac!


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *I very rarely eat there. Having looked at their website and nutritional value I have not been back to a fast food restaurant yet. *



I agree with you Brother JF.

You pay for it now or later with a few cents more you can get real food


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## don bohrer (Sep 4, 2003)

The local sonics make a green chili cheese burger that kicks! 

Mmmm...green chili cheese burger


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## LostGrrlDies (Sep 5, 2003)

well thats a bunch of ********!!

i didnt eat there in 2 weeks and i lost 10lbs.

   






(of course it has nothing to do with the fact that i exercise often and typically dont eat mcdonalds)


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## liangzhicheng (Sep 5, 2003)

I think it's good that the case was thrown out.  Unless McDonalds and other fast food companies are putting an addictive substance into their foods, a Big Mac does not equal a cigarette.  Time for the general public to stop blaming others and take personal responsibility for their health (and hopefully others things as well) :asian:


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by LostGrrlDies _
> *well thats a bunch of ********!!
> 
> i didnt eat there in 2 weeks and i lost 10lbs.
> ...



Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## theletch1 (Sep 5, 2003)

I've always thought that this was another of those "I got no brain" lawsuits anyway.  If the people in America want to sue some one for fat kids then sue themselves for not getting the kids off their butts and out from in front of the t.v.  I eat a lot of fast food on the road, just don't have time to sit down for a meal.  I, however, am very thin.  A fast metabolism and a very active lifestyle keep me that way.  I'm gonna have to do a search on rediculous law suits sometime soon.


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## OULobo (Sep 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *I've always thought that this was another of those "I got no brain" lawsuits anyway.  If the people in America want to sue some one for fat kids then sue themselves for not getting the kids off their butts and out from in front of the t.v.  I eat a lot of fast food on the road, just don't have time to sit down for a meal.  I, however, am very thin.  A fast metabolism and a very active lifestyle keep me that way.  I'm gonna have to do a search on rediculous law suits sometime soon. *



I totally agree. If you have the money to sue, then you have the money to feed your kids some nutritious food and the time to take them to the park for some activity. The term guardian doesn't just mean protection from predators, but protection from unhealthy life styles. Most of these kids aren't buying their own Big Macs. 

Kinda like sueing gun companies for deaths caused by their guns (and off on the tangent we go).


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## theletch1 (Sep 5, 2003)

> The term guardian doesn't just mean protection from predators, but protection from unhealthy life styles.



And quite often that means protection from themselves.  Someone should track down the old lady that origionally sued for the hot coffee in the lap and pummel her.  These common sense lawsuits drive me nuts.  How about taking a little personal responsibility for your own actions and actually thinking about what the consequences for your actions will be.  Then if you get "injured" it's no ones fault but your own.

Did ya know there is a warning on the back of the package for a fan belt that says "Ensure engine is not running before attempting installation."?  Who was the idiot that tried to put one on a running engine?  Any one else got any "Well, duh" warnings they've seen on packaging?


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## arnisador (Sep 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *I totally agree. If you have the money to sue, then you have the money to  *



This would probably have been a huge class action suit, at least once the principle was established,  and the lawyers would have been happy to get in on it.


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## Nightingale (Sep 5, 2003)

the coffee lawsuit was justified...

that particular mcdonalds had been warned not just once, but REPEATEDLY by the health department that their coffee was way too hot.

normally, spilling coffee does not cause third degree burns. You'd expect maybe a scald, run some cold water on it, and you'll be fine... not so with this incident... She needed skin grafts and was in the hospital for a week!

to put things in perspective, a sunburn is basically a first degree burn, a second degree burn blisters, and a third degree burn is pretty much when you set your hand on a hot stove and leave it there until you can smell burning flesh and can't feel pain anymore.




> McFacts about the McDonalds Coffee Lawsuit
> 
> Everyone knows what you're talking about when you mention "the McDonald's lawsuit." Even though this case was decided in August of 1994, for many Americans it continues to represent the "problem" with our civil justice system.
> 
> ...


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## theletch1 (Sep 5, 2003)

Thanks for the info Nightingale.  I did not know all of that.  I suppose we'll have to find another lawsuit to use as the example for potential Darwin award winners who get lucky.


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## Nightingale (Sep 5, 2003)

how about the one about the burglar who had a slip and fall on the front porch of the house he was robbing (on his way OUT) and sued the owner of the home and WON?! (forget the case name, but it was in the midwest somewhere)


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## arnisador (Sep 5, 2003)

These things are always more complicated than they appear at first.


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## Ender (Sep 5, 2003)

I'm gonna sue Hustler magazine for carpel tunnel....


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## pknox (Sep 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *Any one else got any "Well, duh" warnings they've seen on packaging? *



More of an instruction than a warning, but I love when the microwave popcorn, which is in a little plastic bag, has the steps for cooking on it...the first step is "Open package."  How the heck could I read the directions if I didn't already open the package?  It also warns me, after telling me to put the thing in the microwave, that "product will be hot."  Anyone who doesn't realize that something that just came out of being in the microwave for three minutes is going to be hot shouldn't be allowed to operate a wristwatch, not to mention a microwave.


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## Nightingale (Sep 5, 2003)

the label on my hair dryer says "do not use while showering"


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## Ender (Sep 5, 2003)

Can I supersize that?


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## Limey Scrapman (Sep 5, 2003)

I wonder if anyone did use one in the shower and they had to start putting on that warning? I imagine a room full of people who look at every new product on the market and have to figure out what stupid things people could do with it. 

OK we'd better warn folks that tipping hot coffee in their laps may result in painfull burning. (They put little signs on the coffee cups warning that it's hot! amazing) 

I wonder if it has anything to do with us not taking responsibility for our actions, we are so looked after. A car can do 80 mph and we feel totaly safe, our every whim is catered for. 

It's not my fault!! There was no sign saying I could'nt stick my face into the celing fan, I got a black eye in your dojo, I'm going to sue!

On the positive side the possibility of being sued for a squillion dollars has motivated may companies to impove safety, (Ford Pinto, water / air pollution or smoking) 

It's an ill wind ...


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## OULobo (Sep 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ender _
> *I'm gonna sue Hustler magazine for carpel tunnel.... *




Holy fashizzle! Now that is funny!:rofl: Good one.


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## MJS (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by liangzhicheng _
> *I think it's good that the case was thrown out.  Unless McDonalds and other fast food companies are putting an addictive substance into their foods, a Big Mac does not equal a cigarette.  Time for the general public to stop blaming others and take personal responsibility for their health (and hopefully others things as well) :asian: *



I agree.  Blaming someone else for your short comings or faults has been something that people have done for years, and most likely will continue to do.  I mean, I can't believe that those people are that stupid that they are not going to realize that eating fatty, greasy foods every day, ranther than something healthy would be good for you??  New studies come out all the time.  Even way back when the first cig. was invented, they might not have known the effects of it, but as time went on, and people found out that smoking was bad for you, they could have stopped.  But they will cry that its too hard to stop.  Well, you know what---nothing is easy in life.  Granted, everybody is different and one person might be able to stop doing something faster than another, but if you put your mind to it, and are really determined, then yes, you can do it!

Mike


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## MJS (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ender _
> *I'm gonna sue Hustler magazine for carpel tunnel.... *



LOL! LOL!:rofl: :rofl: 

Mike


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ender _
> *I'm gonna sue Hustler magazine for carpel tunnel.... *



For some reason I don't think that Bob Guccione(sp?) is going to give you any monies.


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## OULobo (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *For some reason I don't think that Bob Guccione(sp?) is going to give you any monies.  *



Guccione does Penthouse, Larry Flynt does Hustler. I mean. . .ugh. . .not that I would know.


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## jfarnsworth (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *Guccione does Penthouse, Larry Flynt does Hustler. I mean. . .ugh. . .not that I would know. *



Damn  ; I thought for a few minutes before i posted that too:shrug: . I had even asked my wife which guy did what as I got the stare (you know the one that means don't ask me stupid questions) and she replied "How in the hell do I know".:shrug:


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## OULobo (Sep 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *Damn  ; I thought for a few minutes before i posted that too:shrug: . I had even asked my wife which guy did what as I got the stare (you know the one that means don't ask me stupid questions) and she replied "How in the hell do I know".:shrug: *



She's bluffing. They know, they always know.


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## Aegis (Sep 7, 2003)

A friend pointed out a label on a pack of peanuts a while back. It said:

"May contain trace nut"

Made me wonder what they use instead of peanuts in there...


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## Cryozombie (Sep 7, 2003)

You know... I am gonna play Devil's advocate here...

(But first a word from Out legal Department: Technopunk Does not agree with the McDonalds lawsuit and he is glad it was thrown out. )  

I do think, at some point, because there are a LOT of people who's lives are ruled by the media, that the EVIL, Satan Ruled, Heinous, scum sucking, dirtbag, lower than lawyers, Advertsing people SHOULD at some point be held accountable for the claims that they make and the things they say...   McDonalds is a good example... You get a "Less than the Brightest Bulb in the Light Fixture" type person watching TV, they see the McDonalds ad that says "Eat here everyday!" (I forget the SPECIFIC solgan, but it was EVERYDAY) and they go... "Hmmm.  Yeah, I can eat there everyday"   

What makes it right for them to say "Do this thing that is bad for you daily"??? 

Afterall...  if we are expected to KNOW thats a load of bullshtuff (Especially as children since thats their target audience... Ronald aint for you and me pal) and we could suffer serious health problems if we do it... Well, then, it works both ways... if we know its bad to do, THEY know its bad to do, they (SHOULD) have a responsibility not to tell us to do it.

Can you imagine if a Handgun manufaturer told us to look down the barrel and pull the trigger?  Or if our Oven said "Leave the gas on with the pilot off for a good time!" 

Ahem.  Sorry for the rant.  I hate avertising agency's and they vile loads of vomitous bile they spew at us daily to make some rich guy richer and part us with our hard earned dollars.  Next week, Ill tell you all about how the RIAA  rips off our kids... oh. AHEM.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> *A friend pointed out a label on a pack of peanuts a while back. It said:
> 
> "May contain trace nut"
> ...



And what the hell is a TRACE NUT??? 

is that some kind of synthetic, bug nut that tracks where the Penut is???  :rofl:


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## pknox (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Technopunk _
> *I do think, at some point, because there are a LOT of people who's lives are ruled by the media, that the EVIL, Satan Ruled, Heinous, scum sucking, dirtbag, lower than lawyers, Advertsing people SHOULD at some point be held accountable for the claims that they make and the things they say...*



Don't hold back bro, tell us how you really feel! 

I agree that in some cases that is absolutely true.  But also, unfortunately, the world seems to be gaining more and more people who don't want to take responsibility for anything they do.  In their minds, if nobody else comes out and says it's bad, than it's not their fault, even if they knew the truth - it's everyone else's (government, society, industry, etc.) job to protect them.



> *
> Afterall...  if we are expected to KNOW thats a load of bullshtuff (Especially as children since thats their target audience... Ronald aint for you and me pal)*



That's a really good point - as adults we may know that we shouldn't eat the stuff, but by the time you are 15 or so, you've probably seen what, a million McDonald's ads?  If you get the kids early enough, it almost becomes more auto suggestion and quasi-brainwashing than advertising.

I remember in a class in college reading about a study saying that children as young as 2 or 3 can already develop strong feelings of brand loyalty - even if they don't know what the product is.  I wholly believe that.  Whenever I ask my 3 year old son where he wants to eat, "McDonald's" is almost always what he says.  Even if I say, "hey, let's go get a hamburger", he'll say, "no - let's go to McDonald's" -- almost like it's more than just food.  Makes you wonder.

The really sad part is when you start taking people with a penchant for lack of self-responsibility and force-feed them auto-suggestive ads for questionable products.  We're starting to see the results of that now, and it's only going to get worse.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Technopunk _
> *You know... I am gonna play Devil's advocate here...
> 
> (But first a word from Out legal Department: Technopunk Does not agree with the McDonalds lawsuit and he is glad it was thrown out. )
> ...



Punk-Techno,

I remember a cigarette commercial on TV. Well actually it was a comemrcial against Cigarettes, yet what it showed was a kid picking up his Dad's Cigarettes. It was designed to guilt the adults into stop smoking, but the images told the chldren to do what Dad was doing.

Today we have non-smoking sections. In some states no public building including Bars allow smoking. In Ontariao it is all public building except Bars.  Society has determined that this is a problem and people are fighting against it. Yet, the Magazines all have the ads and target our youths.  So, until society decides that it is good for them to have this problem addressed then it will remain.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pknox _
> *Don't hold back bro, tell us how you really feel!
> 
> I agree that in some cases that is absolutely true.  But also, unfortunately, the world seems to be gaining more and more people who don't want to take responsibility for anything they do.  In their minds, if nobody else comes out and says it's bad, than it's not their fault, even if they knew the truth - it's everyone else's (government, society, industry, etc.) job to protect them.
> ...



Brand Loyalty is somethign all the major Mega-Corps pray for.

McDonalds uses bright Primary colors that children like and see much easier. This atttracts children. Also, the food taste's good to children, it has a high fat content. Young Children burn fat easy and enjoy the taste. Get them loyal early and they stay with you. right?

The big car companies promote Brand Loyalty.

The big deal about which truck is best and how it is tougher, the discunts to employees and suppliers to get them to only buy their product.

Is this wrong to market to your customers to get them to buy your products? In theory , the answer is NO. In practice there ahs to be some guidelines about honesty in advertising. Dove Soap that markets 99 and 44/100 % pure, has keep this because peopel are used to it. This was the old legal requirement for maximum marketing for pure soap. Today this number is not the same, yet this corporation has kept it for brand loyalty and brand identification.

Now, back to foods which effect our health. This is why they have some guidlines and rules about this and marketing. The cereals that say CAN help with a low fat and hi-fiber diet, etc., ..., .

So, as I can see in the capalistic and free market (* within reason *) society we have, would allow this. Yet, I also see regulations changing as society determines what is ethical and then decides to make or take action for laws or regulations.

In no way is the a defense of the big Mega-Corps!.


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## Jay Bell (Sep 7, 2003)

Here is the FULL (both sides) story of Stella Liebeck --

Stella Awards


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## Limey Scrapman (Sep 7, 2003)

I can remember seeing an advert for McDonnalds where he and a bunch of kids skip happly through fhe field gathering burgers which grow in the centre of flowers (kind of like sun flowers)

Just how good and wholesome is that image and how far from the truth. 

All these big companies are out to make money, bottom line. 

We shouldn't be supprised that they go after kids and stupid people because it will earn them money. 

We let them do this to us instead of getting mad we should not buy their stuff. 

Easier said then done


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## Jay Bell (Sep 7, 2003)

It's amazing how we live in a society where people expect to get rich off of their own stupidity.


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## theletch1 (Sep 7, 2003)

> It's amazing how we live in a society where people expect to get rich off of their own stupidity


Sadly, there is a reason that this expectation is growing.  Don't you wish there was a judge somewhere who would leave the bench during one of these cases (i.e. the cat burglar who slipped), walk over to the plaintiff and slap him/her in the back of the head and say "Dumb@$$!"  ((I know, I know.  The judge would then be sued for mental anguish and the pain and suffering incurred by the dumb@$$ as he re-enacted the scene to all of his friends))


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## pknox (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *Sadly, there is a reason that this expectation is growing.  Don't you wish there was a judge somewhere who would leave the bench during one of these cases (i.e. the cat burglar who slipped), walk over to the plaintiff and slap him/her in the back of the head and say "Dumb@$$!"  ((I know, I know.  The judge would then be sued for mental anguish and the pain and suffering incurred by the dumb@$$ as he re-enacted the scene to all of his friends)) *



How true.  It just seems that common sense is no longer as common as it used to be.  I always thought that common sense was supposed to be the yardstick against which the law was to be measured - I guess that's not just true anymore.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pknox _
> *How true.  It just seems that common sense is no longer as common as it used to be.  I always thought that common sense was supposed to be the yardstick against which the law was to be measured - I guess that's not just true anymore. *



Amen brother, Amen.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2003)

We've been looking at stupid law suits in this thread.... how about some stupid laws to go along with them?  These are from my home state of Virginia.

Children are not to go trick-or-treating on Halloween. 


It is illegal to tickle women. 

Driving while not wearing shoes is prohibited. (Repealed) 

You may not work on Sunday. (Repealed) 

Citizens must honk their horn while passing other cars. 

It is illegal to spit on sidewalk. 

There is a state law prohibiting "corrupt practices of bribery by any person other than candidates." 

Police radar detectors are illegal. 

It is illegal to sell peanut brittle on Sundays. (Repealed) 

You cannot sell lettuce on Sunday, but you can sell beer, wine etc. (Repealed) 

You cannot buy hardware of any kind on Sunday. (Passed in 1975, repealed in 1977) 

Culpeper 
No one may wash a mule on the sidewalk. 

Dayton 
A person of color may not be oustide or within the city limits after 7 pm. 

Lebanon 
It is illegal to kick your wife out of bed. 

Norfolk 
Women must wear a corsette after sundown and be in the company of male chaperone. 

A man may face 60 days in jail for patting a woman's derriere. 

Spitting on a sea gull is not tolerated. 

Richmond 
It is illegal to flip a coin in a restaurant to see who pays for a coffee. 

Stafford County 
It is legal for a man to beat his wife on the courthouse steps so long as it is before 8:00 pm. 

Victoria 
It is illegal to skate down the sidewalk of Main Street. 

Virginia Beach 
It is also unlawful to drive by the same place within 30 minutes on Atlantic Avenue. 

If you are drunk and not driving your car, and the person who is driving the car is drunk as well, you may both receive DUI's. 

It is illegal to use profanity on Atlantic Avenue or the boardwalk. 

It is illegal for a person to ride on the handlebars of a bike. 

Waynesboro 
It is illegal for a woman to drive a car up Main Street unless her husband is walking in front of the car waving a red flag.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2003)

and here is West Virginia.

If you wear a hat inside a theater, you may be fined. 


Roadkill may be taken home for supper.


No children may attend school with their breath smelling of "wild onions." 


Doctors and dentists may not place a woman under anesthesia unless a third person is present. 


It is illegal to snooze on a train. 


According to the state constitution, it is unlawful for anyone to own a red or a black flag. 


When a railroad passes within 1 mile of a community of 100 or more people in it, they must build a station and stop there regularly to pick up and drop off passengers. 


Whistling underwater is prohibited. 


Alderson 
One may not walk a lion, tiger or leopard, even on a leash. 


Nicholas County 
No member of the clergy is allowed to tell jokes or humorous stories from the pulpit during a church service. 


Huntington 
Firemen may not whistle or flirt at any woman passing a firehouse. 


It is legal to beat your wife so long as it is done in public on Sunday, on the courthouse steps.


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## Cruentus (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jay Bell _
> *It's amazing how we live in a society where people expect to get rich off of their own stupidity. *



Heh...check out what I added to my signature. It is amazing. When I die, I want to be known for saying the last thing in my signature.


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## Cruentus (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Heh...check out what I added to my signature. It is amazing. When I die, I want to be known for saying the last thing in my signature.  *



O.K....I'm stupid! :rofl: See, that's what I am talking about...

O.K...NOW try to read the last quote in my signature.


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## OULobo (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *and here is West Virginia.
> 
> Roadkill may be taken home for supper.
> ...



Most of those seem like classic "Blue Laws", but these two I can see. 

The anesthesia one is because there have been rapes when the woman passes out and no one else is around.  They even have video of one doctor (plastic surgeon I think) raping a patient while she was under.

You may laugh at the roadkill one, but I was with a friend near the WV border in OH when we hit a deer. A cop came and shot it in the head and then called someone to pick it up. The someone was a local that was very poor and had a wife and three kids. He told us he comes and gets all the edible (fresh) roadkill in the area if called when it is hit. He said he didn't think he could feed his family if things like this didn't happen. Hey if its fresh, free and he wants it, go ahead and take it; better than letting it sit on the roadside and rot.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2003)

> Most of those seem like classic "Blue Laws", but these two I can see


Oh, I can see them as well.  They just happened to be listed with the rest.  I checked out the ones for california on a whim and wasn't dissapointed.

Sunshine is guaranteed to the masses. 


Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship.


Many animals are illegal to own as pets, including snails, sloths, and elephants.


Bathhouses are against the law.


In an animal shelter, lizards and snakes are treated under the same guidelines as cats and dogs.


No vehicle without a driver may exceed 60 miles per hour. 


Women may not drive in a house coat. 


It is a misdemeanor to shoot at any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale. 


Arcadia 
Peacocks have the right of way to cross any street, including driveways.


Alhambra 
You cannot leave your car on the street overnight without the proper permit. 


Baldwin Park 
Nobody is allowed to ride a bicycle in a swimming pool. 


Belvedere 
City Council order reads: "No dog shall be in a public place without its master on a leash."


Blythe 
You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows. 


Burlingame 
It is illegal to spit, except on baseball diamonds. 


Carmel 
Ice cream may not be eaten while standing on the sidewalk. (Repealed when Clint Eastwood was mayor) 


Women may not wear high heels while in the city limits. 


Chico 
Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine. 


Downey 
It is illegal to wash your car in the street. (Passed 1995). 


Hollywood 
It is illegal to drive more than two thousand sheep down Hollywood Boulevard at one time. 


Lafayette 
You are forbidden to spit on the ground within 5 feet of another person. 


Lodi
It is illegal to own or sell "Silly String". 


Lompoc 
It is illegal to posses, own or raise roosters. This is considered disturbing the peace.


Long Beach 
It is illegal to curse on a mini-golf course. 


Cars are the only item allowed in a garage. 


Los Angeles 
Toads may not be licked.


You may not hunt moths under a street light. 


It is a crime for dogs to mate within 500 yards of a church. Breaking this law is punishable by a fine of $500 and/or six months in prison. 


You cannot bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time. 


Zoot suits are prohibited.


It is illegal to cry on the witness stand. 


It is illegal for a man to beat his wife with a strap wider than 2 inches without her consent. 


Ontario 
Roosters may not crow in the city limits. 


Pacific Grove 
Molesting butterflies can result in a $500 fine.


Palm Springs 
It is illegal to walk a camel down Palm Canyon Drive between the hours of four and six PM. 


Pasadena 
It is illegal for a secretary to be alone in a room with her boss. 


Prunedale 
Two bathtubs may not be installed in the same house. 


Redlands 
Motor vehicles may not drive on city streets unless a man with a lantern is wallking ahead of it. 


Riverside 
One may not carry a lunch down the street between 11 and 1 o'clock. 


San Diego 
The owners of houses with Christmas lights on them past February second may be fined up to $250. 


It is illegal to shoot jackrabbits from the back of a streetcar. 


San Francisco 
Persons classified as "ugly" may not walk down any street. 


Prohibits elephants from strolling down Market Street unless they are on a leash. 


It is illegal to pile horse manure more than six feet high on a street corner. 


It is illegal to wipe one's car with used underwear. 


San Jose 
It is illegal to have more than two cats or dogs. -Ord. 7.08.595 


Santa Monica 
You may not play percussion instruments on the beach. 


Temecula 
Ducks have the right of way to cross Rancho California St. at all times.


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## liangzhicheng (Sep 10, 2003)

> Today we have non-smoking sections. In some states no public building including Bars allow smoking. In Ontariao it is all public building except Bars. Society has determined that this is a problem and people are fighting against it. Yet, the Magazines all have the ads and target our youths. So, until society decides that it is good for them to have this problem addressed then it will remain.




Getting on the soapbox...:soapbox:
One of the things that gets me is that there's a lot of talk about smoking being bad for you, but...not a whole lot of talk about alcohol being bad for you.  Before I go on, let me state that I do not find "social" drinking to be bad per se, but rather drinking to get drunk, etc.  (I do find it ridiculous to drink for courage as well).

Like cigarettes, alcohol can be addictive.  We're all familiar with AA.  Long term, too much alcohol can lead to liver failure.  Short term, alcohol leads to impaired judgement

The following is taken from here: 

*Blood Alcohol*          Changes in Feelings      *Physical and Mental*
*Concentration*         and Personality             *Impairments* 

*0.01  0.06*            Relaxation                     *Thought*
                               Sense of Well-being      *Judgment*
                               Loss of Inhibition          *Coordination*
                               Lowered Alertness       *Concentration*
                               Joyous 



*0.06  0.10*            Blunted Feelings           *Reflexes Impaired*
                               Disinhibition                 * Reasoning*
                               Extroversion                 *Depth Perception*
                               Impaired Sexual           *Distance Acuity*
                               Pleasure                       *Peripheral Vision*
*Glare Recovery* 

*0.11  0.20*           Over-Expression           *Reaction Time*
                              Emotional Swings         *Gross Motor Control*
                              Angry or Sad                *Staggering*
                              Boisterous                    *Slurred Speech*


*0.21  0.29*           Stupor                          *Severe Motor* 
                              Lose Understanding    *Impairment*
                              Impaired Sensations    *Loss of* Consciousness
*Memory Blackout*

*0.30  0.39*           Severe Depression       *Bladder Function*
                              Unconsciousness         *Breathing*
                              Death Possible             *Heart Rate* 

*=> 0.40*                 Unconsciousness          *Breathing*
                              Death                           *Heart Rate*

The following quote comes from here

"The study by the federally supported Task Force on College Drinking estimated that drinking by college students contributes to 500,000 injuries and 70,000 cases of sexual assault or date rape. Also, 400,000 students between 18 and 24 years old reported having had unprotected sex as a result of drinking. "

The following information comes from here:

Traffic crashes,traffic crash fatalities, and alcohol-related traffic crash fatalities, United States, 1977-2000.  

Col 1: Year  
Col 2: Traffic crashes 
Col 3: Traffic crash fatalities (a)  
Col 4: Alcohol-related traffic crash fatalities (b)
Col 5: Percent of all traffic crash fatalities (b/a)  

2000  37,526  41,945  13,050  31.1  
1999  37,140  41,717  12,547  30.1  
1998  37,107  41,501  12,663  30.5  
1997  37,324  42,013  12,870  30.6 

Age-adjusted death rates* of liver cirrhosis by sex: death registration States, 1910-32, and United States, 1933-99.  
Year  Both-sexes  Males  Females  
1999  9.9  14.0  6.3  
1998  9.5  13.4  6.1  
1997  9.7  13.6  6.2  
1996  9.8  13.9  6.2  
1995  10.0  14.4  6.2 

By the time they reach the eighth grade, nearly 50 percent of adolescents have had at least one drink, and over 20 percent report having been drunk (1). Approximately 20 percent of 8th graders and almost 50 percent of 12th graders have consumed alcohol within the past 30 days (1). Among 12th graders, almost 30 percent report drinking on 3 or more occasions per month (2). Approximately 30 percent of 12th graders engage in heavy episodic drinking, now popularly termed binge drinkingthat is, having at least five or more drinks on one occasion within the past 2 weeksand it is estimated that 20 percent do so on more than one occasion (2).

Alcohol and Sleep in Those Without Alcoholism 

Alcohol consumed at bedtime, after an initial stimulating effect, may decrease the time required to fall asleep. Because of alcohol's sedating effect, many people with insomnia consume alcohol to promote sleep. However, alcohol consumed within an hour of bedtime appears to disrupt the second half of the sleep period (7). The subject may sleep fitfully during the second half of sleep, awakening from dreams and returning to sleep with difficulty. With continued consumption just before bedtime, alcohol's sleep-inducing effect may decrease, while its disruptive effects continue or increase (8). This sleep disruption may lead to daytime fatigue and sleepiness. The elderly are at particular risk, because they achieve higher levels of alcohol in the blood and brain than do younger persons after consuming an equivalent dose. Bedtime alcohol consumption among older persons may lead to unsteadiness if walking is attempted during the night, with increased risk of falls and injuries (3). 

Alcoholic beverages are often consumed in the late afternoon (e.g., at "happy hour" or with dinner) without further consumption before bedtime. Studies show that a moderate dose1 of alcohol consumed as much as 6 hours before bedtime can increase wakefulness during the second half of sleep. By the time this effect occurs, the dose of alcohol consumed earlier has already been eliminated from the body, suggesting a relatively long-lasting change in the body's mechanisms of sleep regulation (7,8). 

The adverse effects of sleep deprivation are increased following alcohol consumption. Subjects administered low doses of alcohol following a night of reduced sleep perform poorly in a driving simulator, even with no alcohol left in the body (9,10). Reduced alertness may potentially increase alcohol's sedating effect in situations such as rotating sleep-wake schedules (e.g., shift work) and rapid travel across multiple time zones (i.e., jet lag) (9). A person may not recognize the extent of sleep disturbance that occurs under these circumstances, increasing the danger that sleepiness and alcohol consumption will co-occur. 

Percent who drink beverage alcohol, by gender, 1939-2000.  Year  Both Sexes  Men  Women  
2000  *64*  -  -  
1999  64  -  -  
1997  61  -  -  

1996  58  -  -  
1994  65  70  61 

Compare that to the number of smokers (here )
In the United States, an estimated 25.9 million men *(27.1 percent)* and 22.8 million women *(22.2 percent)* are smokers. These people are at higher risk of heart attack and stroke. About 4.1 million teenagers ages 12 through 17 are smokers. The latest estimates for persons age 18 and older show...* 
Among non-Hispanic whites, 26.5 percent of men and 23.6 percent of women smoke. 
Among non-Hispanic blacks, 29.0 percent of men and 21.3 percent of women smoke. 
Among Hispanics, 24.7 percent of men and 13.3 percent of women smoke. 
Among Asians / Pacific Islanders, 17.9 percent of men and 9.9 percent of women smoke. 
Among American Indians/Alaska Natives, 41.7 percent of men and 38.1 percent of women smoke

I think it's a bit funny that there is a bit of public outrage over cigarette smoking, yet little talk about alcohol.  Advertisers may not directly advertise to childern...they don't need to.  Drinking is so prevalent in our society that it is the norm.  Compare 64% of the population who drinks alcohol to 27% who smoke cigarettes.  If people in general are stupid already, drinking will only make them more stupid.  Among my age group (college/graduate school), it is common to hear how great alchohol is, and how it is necessary to have alcohol to have fun.  Then there's the folks who drink alcohol so that they can be more confident. "I'm not drunk enough to dance/sing/etc."  Uh huh.  Perhaps you have heard of something called personal responsibility?  What a society we live in when confidence comes from outside, not within.  Liquid courage indeed...courage to be a drunken driver, sexual predator, courage to free oneself from responsibility.  As a martial artist, I do not want to do anything that will take away from my ability to defend myself or others.  Hmmm...perhaps alcohol does this?  Naw...it must be alright because everyone's doing it.  But wait, most people are "stupid"....

Getting off soapbox, and awaiting public fury....

PS., yes I know there are studies saying that moderate drinking is beneficial to one's health, see my above statement about social drinking


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## Nightingale (Sep 10, 2003)

working in a bar that serves alcohol on a daily basis is not likely to give me cancer.
working in a bar surrounded by smokers is much more likely to make me sick.

that's why people are against smoking.

I am unlikely to become sick or injured because someone else near me is drinking, so therefore, I don't care if that person is drinking as long as they aren't driving, and there are already laws against that.

with someone smoking, in order to not be affected, I either have to move or stop breathing.  either one is an inconvenience to say the least.


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## theletch1 (Sep 10, 2003)

Here is a little something to think about as far as the alchohol is concerned...... The federally mandated limit for BAC for a commercial airline pilot is .08 the federally mandated limit for BAC for a commercial truck driver is .04...... why is it that a truck driver is allowed a lower BAC than an airplane pilot?  I gave up alchohol a long time ago but if I have even a dose of cough syrup before hitting the road I could be over the limit.  I'm hauling freight, the pilot is hauling people.


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## OULobo (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by liangzhicheng _
> *Getting on the soapbox...:soapbox:
> One of the things that gets me is that there's a lot of talk about smoking being . . . . .
> 
> ...



Wow. I'm so depressed I think I grab a beer, or four.  :cheers: :drink2tha :drinkbeer


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## Cruentus (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *Wow. I'm so depressed I think I grab a beer, or four.  :cheers: :drink2tha :drinkbeer *



Beer is bad for you!:angry:  (As I grab my scotch and Soda, and light up a fat Cigar in my office)


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## Cryozombie (Sep 10, 2003)

> *400,000 students between 18 and 24 years old reported having had unprotected sex as a result of drinking. *


 

Well... I know it has certainly helped me along... When you are as WEIRD lookin as I am, you need SOME advantage... 
:rofl:


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## Nightingale (Sep 10, 2003)

> 400,000 students between 18 and 24 years old reported having had unprotected sex as a result of drinking.



unfortunately, we can't outlaw stupidity.


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## liangzhicheng (Sep 10, 2003)

I think, perhaps we should take a long look at ourselves and ask if we ourselves are stupid.  It's a hard question that our egos will ardantly dismiss.  How can the parent who smokes tell their children not to smoke?  IMHO, people change for the better because they want to.  What we can do to encourage change is to provide an environment conducive to positive change.  Peer pressure can be a big factor in one's life, especially at younger ages.  We want to fit in.  Now if our peers were smokers, we'd feel pressure to smoke ourselves, and the converse is true as well.  So this leads back to asking if we ourselves are stupid.  If we wish others weren't stupid, we'd better make sure we're not stupid ourselves.  I'm not perfect, far from it, but I think asking myself questions like these have helped me become a better person.  (though apparently, I still haven't learned not to be preachy yet )  We can't rely on laws to change society.  To end...the quote you know is coming...

"We must be the change we wish to see in the world" - Gandhi


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## Nightingale (Sep 10, 2003)

many of my friends smoke.  I don't feel at all pressured to participate, and they respect me enough not to ask if I want a cigarette.

I have a little sign that someone gave me...

"anyone found smoking in this area will be considered 'on fire' and treated accordingly"

one or two episodes with a super soaker, and everyone knows not to light up at my place...

outside on the balcony is ok, tho.  just not inside.


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## liangzhicheng (Sep 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *
> I have a little sign that someone gave me...
> 
> ...



:rofl: That's awesome


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