# 2 more months can't hurt...right?



## skribs (May 25, 2018)

I was supposed to test for my 3rd degree black belt in 2 weeks from today.  I've been bitten by the injury bug, and I made the decision yesterday to tell my Master I would like to postpone my test.  I will probably test in August.

It really sucks, because on the same test, my Mom is supposed to go for her 1st degree, and my Dad for his 2nd degree.  We were going to test for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd together as a family, but now that's not happening.  (No, they aren't going to wait for me). 

But the worst part is...I don't even know what I did!  I must be getting old...


----------



## Headhunter (May 25, 2018)

Better to wait 2 months than go for it inured and possibly fail


----------



## skribs (May 25, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Better to wait 2 months than go for it inured and possibly fail



You remind me a bit of Hermione Granger..."you two are going to find another way to get us killed...or worse: expelled!"


----------



## dvcochran (May 25, 2018)

skribs said:


> I was supposed to test for my 3rd degree black belt in 2 weeks from today.  I've been bitten by the injury bug, and I made the decision yesterday to tell my Master I would like to postpone my test.  I will probably test in August.
> 
> It really sucks, because on the same test, my Mom is supposed to go for her 1st degree, and my Dad for his 2nd degree.  We were going to test for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd together as a family, but now that's not happening.  (No, they aren't going to wait for me).
> 
> But the worst part is...I don't even know what I did!  I must be getting old...


Tough break on the injury, I hope you quickly recover. My 3rd Dan testing was by far my hardest and looking back the most fulfilling. Process the disappointment of not testing with the parents, get healed up and pour yourself into August. Make it worth the wait instead of rushing into another letdown.


----------



## _Simon_ (May 26, 2018)

Ah sorry to hear that mate, it would be rather disappointing. But yeah I guess injuries are usually a sign that we need to slow down or that we need to address something.

I hope you heal up nicely and can look forward to your test with vigour and excitement when it comes (which won't be too long away)


----------



## skribs (May 26, 2018)

The weird thing is...I'm not the only one.  We've got a guy quite a bit older than me who also has a knee thing, and a teenager who had one of those freak injuries where you get hit in the foot juuuuust right and it makes your leg swell up for a few months.

The other two are supposed to go for 1st degree black belt in the same test as me...and we've all rescheduled to the same test in August.  As the teenager says, it will be the handicapped test.

We still will have about 10 people going for black belt, and I'll at least be there at the judges' table.  

Anyway, it had been getting better but I felt a sharp flare-up of pain earlier today, so I plan to get it checked out next week if I can.


----------



## jobo (May 26, 2018)

skribs said:


> I was supposed to test for my 3rd degree black belt in 2 weeks from today.  I've been bitten by the injury bug, and I made the decision yesterday to tell my Master I would like to postpone my test.  I will probably test in August.
> 
> It really sucks, because on the same test, my Mom is supposed to go for her 1st degree, and my Dad for his 2nd degree.  We were going to test for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd together as a family, but now that's not happening.  (No, they aren't going to wait for me).
> 
> But the worst part is...I don't even know what I did!  I must be getting old...


If your Mums young enough to go for a first backbeIt , you can't be old, over extended your knee doing silly tkD, kicks at a guess, take three aspirin Put an elastic stocking on and get on with it, or at the very least seek a medical opinion BEFORE canceling your test, you could be right as rain in two weeks,


----------



## pdg (May 26, 2018)

jobo said:


> If your Mums young enough to go for a first backbeIt , you can't be old



A guy at our school got his first dan last year, in his 60s - and he's not exactly the oldest to do so...

It's entirely possible to be in your 60s yourself and still have a parent going for first dan.


----------



## Headhunter (May 27, 2018)

skribs said:


> The weird thing is...I'm not the only one.  We've got a guy quite a bit older than me who also has a knee thing, and a teenager who had one of those freak injuries where you get hit in the foot juuuuust right and it makes your leg swell up for a few months.
> 
> The other two are supposed to go for 1st degree black belt in the same test as me...and we've all rescheduled to the same test in August.  As the teenager says, it will be the handicapped test.
> 
> ...


Well if multiple people are injured at the same time with similar injury maybe your school needs to look at how they're training


----------



## jobo (May 27, 2018)

pdg said:


> A guy at our school got his first dan last year, in his 60s - and he's not exactly the oldest to do so...
> 
> It's entirely possible to be in your 60s yourself and still have a parent going for first dan.


Entirely possible? , 85 year old getting awarded black belts are not entirely possible, they are eExtremely unli k ely but not entirely impOssible, not unless it's one of those schools that give them away for attendance.

But the substance of my post, is even if you black belt partner is 60,( slightly more realistic) then you are ONLY going to be in your 40 at most and that's NOT old


----------



## pdg (May 27, 2018)

A 60 year old can legally have a 76 year old parent, and I know a couple of people in their 70s who can run rings around average teenagers...


----------



## jobo (May 27, 2018)

pdg said:


> A 60 year old can legally have a 76 year old parent, and I know a couple of people in their 70s who can run rings around average teenagers...


It's not illegal to have a parent less than 16older, it's just not that common.

I really doubt you do know people in their 70s who can out perform a teenager, not unless it's one of those fat never take any excercise teenagers


----------



## skribs (May 27, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Well if multiple people are injured at the same time with similar injury maybe your school needs to look at how they're training



One person suffered a crushed blood vessel in their ankle.  I think either they accidentally got stepped on or they kicked someone's elbow or something like that.  The other two of us are older.  We have different injuries.

We have about 150-200 students at our school.  We have someone take a lasting injury maybe once every other month, on average.  It's just that the three of us happen to be injured at the same time.  It's not like we're practicing full-contact kicks to the knee.


----------



## dvcochran (May 27, 2018)

jobo said:


> It's not illegal to have a parent less than 16older, it's just not that common.
> 
> I really doubt you do know people in their 70s who can out perform a teenager, not unless it's one of those fat never take any excercise teenagers


My father-in-law is 82 years old and still goes to the woods cutting timber everyday. He has Popeye arms and hands that I never want to be hit by. It sounds like you are speaking from the ignorance of youth but, yes, the 70 year old can out perform some but not all youth.


----------



## dvcochran (May 27, 2018)

jobo said:


> It's not illegal to have a parent less than 16older, it's just not that common.
> 
> I really doubt you do know people in their 70s who can out perform a teenager, not unless it's one of those fat never take any excercise teenagers


Legal age to marry in TN is 18. Yes parents can consent.


----------



## jobo (May 28, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> My father-in-law is 82 years old and still goes to the woods cutting timber everyday. He has Popeye arms and hands that I never want to be hit by. It sounds like you are speaking from the ignorance of youth but, yes, the 70 year old can out perform some but not all youth.


Ok point me out some Olympic medal winners who were 70 when they won their medal,


----------



## pdg (May 28, 2018)

jobo said:


> Ok point me out some Olympic medal winners who were 70 when they won their medal,



That's a pathetic request really. You're on about the professed pinnacle of physical achievement, that's hardly average.

Point me out an average teenager who has won an Olympic medal.

And I'm talking average teenager here, the ones you see around town or on the school bus - I can outdo most of them...


----------



## jobo (May 28, 2018)

pdg said:


> That's a pathetic request really. You're on about the professed pinnacle of physical achievement, that's hardly average.
> 
> Point me out an average teenager who has won an Olympic medal.
> 
> And I'm talking average teenager here, the ones you see around town or on the school bus - I can outdo most of them...


Your not 70 are you, so you want to start another discussion on a40 odd year old can out perform teenagers.

That's still leave s the question of out perform them at what exactly, an older teenager who trains will out do you at most things , arguing that you can beat an unspecified teenager at unspecified things is silLy, I can beat most of them at pool, I can't catch them in a 50 yard cash playing 5 aside

If your insisting on average teen ager, you need to compare them with an average 70 yo


----------



## JR 137 (May 28, 2018)

jobo said:


> It's not illegal to have a parent less than 16older, it's just not that common.
> 
> I really doubt you do know people in their 70s who can out perform a teenager, not unless it's one of those fat never take any excercise teenagers


I saw a guy competing in wrestling in the Empire State Games a while back.  He said he was 68.  Ex-Marine.  Threw around quite a few college wrestlers.  None of them were slouches by any stretch of the imagination.  He had to withdraw after the doc and I reduced his shoulder dislocation.  He wasn’t happy about it, but he knew it was the right thing.

He was in better shape at 68 than most people have ever been at any point in their lives.  

That guy was a machine.  But yeah, I never saw that before nor since, hence why it still sticks out 20+ years later.  But they’re out there.


----------



## jobo (May 28, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I saw a guy competing in wrestling in the Empire State Games a while back.  He said he was 68.  Ex-Marine.  Threw around quite a few college wrestlers.  None of them were slouches by any stretch of the imagination.  He had to withdraw after the doc and I reduced his shoulder dislocation.  He wasn’t happy about it, but he knew it was the right thing.
> 
> He was in better shape at 68 than most people have ever been at any point in their lives.
> 
> That guy was a machine.  But yeah, I never saw that before nor since, hence why it still sticks out 20+ years later.  But they’re out there.


Yes they are, but as you rightly say, they are so unusual that single examples stay with you, the issue is people are taking care genetic abnormalities and trying to build a case that it's possible for every 70 year old to out perform 19 year olds.

I'm the Fittest 59 year old I know, and I get fitter with every year that passes, only because at 55 I was in Terrible shape, you can't hold me up to show that all 59 year olds should be able to do 5 min mile

Though I admit I enjoy out pacing 30 Yo, joggers in all the expensive gear, in jeans a pair of combat boots and with a cig, in my moulth


----------



## pdg (May 28, 2018)

jobo said:


> Your not 70 are you, so you want to start another discussion on a40 odd year old can out perform teenagers.
> 
> That's still leave s the question of out perform them at what exactly, an older teenager who trains will out do you at most things , arguing that you can beat an unspecified teenager at unspecified things is silLy, I can beat most of them at pool, I can't catch them in a 50 yard cash playing 5 aside
> 
> If your insisting on average teen ager, you need to compare them with an average 70 yo



No, the original 'comparison' was that there are some people in their 60s and 70s who can outperform the average teenager.

To start on with a load of bollocks about 70 year old olympians and having to compare average with average is utterly in your own head.

You simply can't argue that something isn't true by changing the original premise and then using that as your example - unless of course you're supported by scope...


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 28, 2018)

jobo said:


> Ok point me out some Olympic medal winners who were 70 when they won their medal,


He didn't say he knew 70-somethings who were better than ALL teenagers.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 28, 2018)

jobo said:


> Yes they are, but as you rightly say, they are so unusual that single examples stay with you, the issue is people are taking care genetic abnormalities and trying to build a case that it's possible for every 70 year old to out perform 19 year olds.
> 
> I'm the Fittest 59 year old I know, and I get fitter with every year that passes, only because at 55 I was in Terrible shape, you can't hold me up to show that all 59 year olds should be able to do 5 min mile
> 
> Though I admit I enjoy out pacing 30 Yo, joggers in all the expensive gear, in jeans a pair of combat boots and with a cig, in my moulth


But nobody said anything about ALL 70-somethings - just that there are some out there who are fitter than a lot of younger people. You'll probably be one of those examples one day.


----------



## jobo (May 28, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> My father-in-law is 82 years old and still goes to the woods cutting timber everyday. He has Popeye arms and hands that I never want to be hit by. It sounds like you are speaking from the ignorance of youth but, yes, the 70 year old can out perform some but not all youth.


This is what he said
That 70yo( as there is no qualification he seems to mean all 70 yo) can out perform some, but not all teenagers.

Now clearly they maybe be able to out perform teenagers who have a handicap of some sort, but the number of 70 yo who can catch a ( healthy) teenager in say a foot race is so miniscule as to be near non existant.

Invoking rate genetic abnormalities doesn't prove the rule


----------



## Earl Weiss (May 28, 2018)

Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 28, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.


Agreed. I'm not as fit (though probably as strong) as at 20 (28 years ago), but much better MA skills. My MA skills at 20 were pretty thin. Compare my fitness and strength now to me at 30, and there's no comparison - I was both stronger and more fit then, by a significant margin. I let things go for a bit in my early 40's, and am slowly clawing my way back.


----------



## pdg (May 28, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.



I'm not as good at 40 as I was at 20, I'm much better.

I was crap at 20


----------



## dvcochran (May 28, 2018)

pdg said:


> I'm not as good at 40 as I was at 20, I'm much better.
> 
> I was crap at 20


Back that up about 4-5 years and I'm right with you.


----------



## JR 137 (May 28, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.


I was pretty good at 20.  My 41 year old self would throw a beating on my 20 year old self.

I’m smarter, I hit harder, and I take a punch better.  I’m just not as flashy and athletic.  And I don’t recover like I used to.  20 year old JR would try to overwhelm 41 year old JR.  41 year old JR would let him come and give 21 year old JR a few well timed shots to a few good targets.  20 year old JR would be buckled over or on the ground wondering what went wrong.

I’m far better today than I was 21 years ago.  I could certainly hold my own back then, but I was a bit over confident.  There’s something to be said for growing up and seeing things from the point of view of a guy who’s been hit more often and harder.  Then again, saying what I said above makes me question if I’m still over confident


----------



## andyjeffries (May 29, 2018)

I think the best I could say is my 43 year old self would surprise my 20 year old self! I don't think I'd win, but with the extra experience, the having "been there, seen that" I'd have been able to seemingly react quickly, even with my age-related lower reaction speed.

I sometimes spar with my 15 year old son, and surprise him when I do (and he often debates whether he'd be better than 21 year old me - given our similarity in grade/experience at those relative ages).


----------



## Dirty Dog (May 29, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.



I think that would depend. My techniques aren't as pretty as they were when I was 20. But they're effective, and since I've had a few decades more practice at applying them, I would even say they're more effective than when I was 20. But I won a lot more tournies when I was 20. And without a doubt, my understanding of those techniques (and their underlying principles) and my ability to teach them is much, much better.


----------



## Earl Weiss (May 29, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Anyone who says they are as good at 40 as they were at 20 wasn't very good at 20.



Well you always have to account for the "Age and treachery (experience)  trumps youth and skill"  but... no one defeats the opponent of "time".


----------



## skribs (May 29, 2018)

To be clear "I must be getting old" was referring to my body falling apart with no explanation as to how I got injured.

I turn 30 tomorrow.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 29, 2018)

Earl Weiss said:


> Well you always have to account for the "Age and treachery (experience)  trumps youth and skill"  but... no one defeats the opponent of "time".


40 isn't really old enough for time to be a major factor, unless one is an experienced and skilled athlete at 20, and we're talking about a highly demanding sport. At elite levels that becomes more true than at "normal guy" levels. Most of us can be nearly as fit and fast at 40 as at 20, and with a lot more experience we'd be much better. Add another 20 years, and my statement changes.


----------



## Balrog (Jun 11, 2018)

Take the time to heal.  You have the rest of your life to do this, don't screw it up by rushing to meet an arbitrary deadline.


----------



## skribs (Jun 11, 2018)

Balrog said:


> Take the time to heal.  You have the rest of your life to do this, don't screw it up by rushing to meet an arbitrary deadline.



I actually was planning to test in December.  I moved up my test to June because my Mom was testing for 1st degree and my Dad for 2nd degree.  We were supposed to test together for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Oh well.  I will maybe test in August, but might end up waiting until December (our school does Keub and Gup tests every 2 months, but usually does Dan tests only twice a year).  Depends on how I feel over the next month or so.


----------



## Buka (Jun 11, 2018)

jobo said:


> Ok point me out some Olympic medal winners who were 70 when they won their medal,



Sweedish Shooter Oscar Swahn, silver medalist at the age of 72. The only medalist in their seventies that I know of. Pretty cool accomplishment.

As for twenty year olds....they're puppies. Not very informed puppies at that. No offense meant, honest, just saying.


----------



## skribs (Aug 9, 2018)

I'm testing today!

The other two who were injured are planning to go in October.  It all looks to be going good for now!


----------



## pdg (Aug 9, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm testing today!



Good luck


----------



## dvcochran (Aug 9, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm testing today!
> 
> The other two who were injured are planning to go in October.  It all looks to be going good for now!


Best of luck! What belt?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 9, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm testing today!
> 
> The other two who were injured are planning to go in October.  It all looks to be going good for now!


Nice!


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 10, 2018)

skribs said:


> I'm testing today!
> 
> The other two who were injured are planning to go in October.  It all looks to be going good for now!


Ohh that's awesome skribs, the wait would have been worth it. Best of luck, give it your all!!!

Let us know how it all went!


----------



## skribs (Aug 10, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> Best of luck! What belt?



3rd Dan.

And I passed!


----------



## skribs (Aug 10, 2018)

I went home after and collapsed.


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 10, 2018)

Ah a massive congratulations to you mate, that's bloody awesome, well done!!! A massive grading!

*Deep bow*

Ps. Yep, collapsing is understandable!

Pps. Cool dojang bro!


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 10, 2018)

skribs said:


> 3rd Dan.
> 
> And I passed!View attachment 21669 View attachment 21670


Sweet!!


----------



## dvcochran (Aug 10, 2018)

skribs said:


> 3rd Dan.
> 
> And I passed!View attachment 21669 View attachment 21670


Very nice!


----------



## Michele123 (Aug 10, 2018)

Congratulations!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skribs (Aug 13, 2018)

During the test I did 3-on-1 sparring (my favorite thing to do in TKD), and one of the girls I was sparring accidentally kneed me in the thigh (we were both going for a kick, it happens).  It hurt a bit at the time, but not bad.  I kept going, finished the test.  A few hours later I was on my parents couch watching the Seahawks first preseason game.  I stood up and almost fell down my leg hurt so bad.  I never saw the bruise, but the next day I could barely walk.  It healed out over the weekend.

I also went in with my left hand in a lot of pain.  I've just got chronic tendinitis that shows up in the top of my left wrist or left hand from time to time (has for the last 10 years or so) and this was one of those times.  The nunchaku portion of the test SUCKED, because I had to do both hands.  I kept dropping it with my left hand whenever I was supposed to transition my grip, but they gave me grace because I didn't complain and just redid it until I got it.  I also got kicked in the hand in 1-on-1 sparring.  One of the judges yelled at me to keep my right foot forward and I didn't get kicked in the hand again.


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> During the test I did 3-on-1 sparring (my favorite thing to do in TKD), and one of the girls I was sparring accidentally kneed me in the thigh (we were both going for a kick, it happens).  It hurt a bit at the time, but not bad.  I kept going, finished the test.  A few hours later I was on my parents couch watching the Seahawks first preseason game.  I stood up and almost fell down my leg hurt so bad.  I never saw the bruise, but the next day I could barely walk.  It healed out over the weekend.
> 
> I also went in with my left hand in a lot of pain.  I've just got chronic tendinitis that shows up in the top of my left wrist or left hand from time to time (has for the last 10 years or so) and this was one of those times.  The nunchaku portion of the test SUCKED, because I had to do both hands.  I kept dropping it with my left hand whenever I was supposed to transition my grip, but they gave me grace because I didn't complain and just redid it until I got it.  I also got kicked in the hand in 1-on-1 sparring.  One of the judges yelled at me to keep my right foot forward and I didn't get kicked in the hand again.


Sounds like a challenging test for ya mate. Ah I get that in my left wrist too, never been able to sort it out.. but been working on wrist flexibility/mobility and strength in the fully extended position.

Well done bro


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> During the test I did 3-on-1 sparring (my favorite thing to do in TKD), and one of the girls I was sparring accidentally kneed me in the thigh (we were both going for a kick, it happens).  It hurt a bit at the time, but not bad.  I kept going, finished the test.  A few hours later I was on my parents couch watching the Seahawks first preseason game.  I stood up and almost fell down my leg hurt so bad.  I never saw the bruise, but the next day I could barely walk.  It healed out over the weekend.
> 
> I also went in with my left hand in a lot of pain.  I've just got chronic tendinitis that shows up in the top of my left wrist or left hand from time to time (has for the last 10 years or so) and this was one of those times.  The nunchaku portion of the test SUCKED, because I had to do both hands.  I kept dropping it with my left hand whenever I was supposed to transition my grip, but they gave me grace because I didn't complain and just redid it until I got it.  I also got kicked in the hand in 1-on-1 sparring.  One of the judges yelled at me to keep my right foot forward and I didn't get kicked in the hand again.


I can relate to the tendinitis. I have some in my left elbow that has stopped me from doing any consistent strength training. It gets feeling fine, no pain, then I work out and it hurts for a week or two.


----------



## skribs (Aug 13, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Sounds like a challenging test for ya mate. Ah I get that in my left wrist too, never been able to sort it out.. but been working on wrist flexibility/mobility and strength in the fully extended position.
> 
> Well done bro



I've noticed a lot less pain in hapkido since I started taking guitar and bass lessons.



gpseymour said:


> I can relate to the tendinitis. I have some in my left elbow that has stopped me from doing any consistent strength training. It gets feeling fine, no pain, then I work out and it hurts for a week or two.



Yep.  This was part of why I started TKD.  I was getting fat, so I decided to go to the gym.  I found lots of excuses to not go to the gym because of little ailments, and so I stayed fat.  Then I started TKD.

I'm still fat, but at least I'm not getting fatter.


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 14, 2018)

skribs said:


> I've noticed a lot less pain in hapkido since I started taking guitar and bass lessons.



Ah that's awesome, have been learning guitar but haven't picked it up in a bit, will have to get strummin'!


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 14, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah that's awesome, have been learning guitar but haven't picked it up in a bit, will have to get strummin'!


I’ve been learning guitar for about 20 years. I have learned 5 chords and a fingerstyle pattern. Give me another century or so, and I’ll actually be able to play.


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 14, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I’ve been learning guitar for about 20 years. I have learned 5 chords and a fingerstyle pattern. Give me another century or so, and I’ll actually be able to play.


Haha, that's dedication ;D


----------



## skribs (Aug 14, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I’ve been learning guitar for about 20 years. I have learned 5 chords and a fingerstyle pattern. Give me another century or so, and I’ll actually be able to play.



I played one chord and my instructor said "congratulations, you can now play guitar.  Now you get to spend the rest of your life getting better at it."


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 14, 2018)

skribs said:


> I played one chord and my instructor said "congratulations, you can now play guitar.  Now you get to spend the rest of your life getting better at it."


Then I'm quite accomplished!

When I dropped my guitar off to be re set-up (the neck needed adjustment), the guy gave it back after it was done.
  Rep: "It'll sound beautiful now."
_  Me:  "Not when I play it, it won't."_
  Rep: "Well, there's only so much we can do."


----------



## skribs (Aug 14, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Then I'm quite accomplished!
> 
> When I dropped my guitar off to be re set-up (the neck needed adjustment), the guy gave it back after it was done.
> Rep: "It'll sound beautiful now."
> ...



I've figured out the best way to make my guitar sound good.  "Hey, Mr. Instructor, want to try my guitar?"


----------



## now disabled (Aug 14, 2018)

Congrats my friend 

Welcome to the sandan (or whatever that is in Korean lol) keep it going


----------



## pdg (Aug 14, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Welcome to the sandan (or whatever that is in Korean lol)



San is just '3' in Japanese, right?

I don't know which is considered normal usage - I've seen many so it might depend solely on who translated, but it could be sam, set, jesam, setjae, or something else depending on whether you're using native or sino Korean and if you assign cardinal or ordinal numbers...

Not that it's complex or anything


----------



## now disabled (Aug 14, 2018)

Yes san is three in japanese but how there are some ummm variations as to certain other numbers lol and I am not going into that lol


----------



## skribs (Aug 14, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Congrats my friend
> 
> Welcome to the sandan (or whatever that is in Korean lol) keep it going



Korean uses Chinese-sounding numbers for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.  So it's Sam Dan.


----------



## JR 137 (Aug 14, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Yes san is three in japanese but how there are some ummm variations as to certain other numbers lol and I am not going into that lol


I’ll get into it 

From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death.  Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible.  Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”

The number 7 - shichi - is a homonym for point of death.  Like shi, nana is typically used instead of shichi.  So rather than shichidan, nanadan is used.  

I say homonym because I think the kanji between 4 and death, and 7 and point of death are different, but don’t hold me to that one.


----------



## Martial D (Aug 14, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll get into it
> 
> From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death.  Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible.  Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
> 
> ...


A little off topic but, to give some context to how seriously they take that stuff; where I live most of the apartments don't have a 4th, 14th, 24th etc floors or unit numbers with 4s in them either. This also applies to addresses.

And I don't live in China.


----------



## _Simon_ (Aug 15, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll get into it
> 
> From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death.  Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible.  Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
> 
> ...



Ahhhh is that why... have always wondered why yon and nana!

Haha shidan... the level of death. Shichidan, the level just at the point of death [emoji14] (means you've bounced back!)


----------



## now disabled (Aug 15, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll get into it
> 
> From what I’ve heard, the number 4 in Japanese - shi - is a homonym for death.  Rather than using shi, they use yon except when counting out things whenever possible.  Hence, 4th dan isn’t “shidan” but rather “yondan.”
> 
> ...




Yes it is all about death and they get umm rather suspicious at that  @chrisparker will prob know more


----------



## pdg (Aug 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> Korean uses Chinese-sounding numbers for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.  So it's Sam Dan.



This is where me learning the language conflicts with me learning the terminology 

So much of the terminology isn't grammatically correct and it's difficult to see how the translation 'works'.

(Pronunciation, don't let's start on that one )


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 15, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Yes it is all about death and they get umm rather suspicious at that  @chrisparker will prob know more


If you’re going to invoke him, you need to include the space:
@Chris Parker 
@Chris Parker
@Chris Parker

Three times, like Beetlejuice.


----------



## now disabled (Aug 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If you’re going to invoke him, you need to include the space:
> @Chris Parker
> @Chris Parker
> @Chris Parker
> ...




Invoke lol 

I thought none of us believed in the ummmmm special secret powers and words ...........lol


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Aug 15, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Invoke lol
> 
> I thought none of us believed in the ummmmm special secret powers and words ...........lol


Just because we don't believe, doesn't mean it won't work.


----------



## now disabled (Aug 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Just because we don't believe, doesn't mean it won't work.




When he turns up I will bow to thee my friend lol....and become a believer (kinda )


----------



## skribs (Oct 5, 2018)

The other two who were injured are testing for their 1st degree black belt today, in a few hours.  It's interesting, because these are two completely different people.

One is a guy in his 30s or 40s, who is a little awkward, both socially and in his movements.  He started at my dojang a little bit before I did, and he progressed at his own pace.  It's taken him a long time to memorize the patterns, and a long time as well for him to get the mind-body connection down.  He still struggles with a lot, but he's worked real hard and has come a long way since he started.

The other is a high school girl who accelerated through the belts very fast.  She was the lowest belt I invited to my demonstration team when I started it (she was a green belt at the time and everyone else was red or black belts, with maybe a few blue belts).  She's among the best sparrers in our school, if not the best she's in the top 5.  She's won gold in sparring at every tournament she's been to, and after her matches I've had the referee and the judges tell me "I learned stuff watching her fight."  She absolutely dominates and a score of 24-6 isn't uncommon when she wins a bout.  Half the time when I show her a new technique she's doing it just as good as me after a couple of tries.  

They'll be testing with black belts who are going for gup ranks (intermediate ranks between dan ranks), but it should be an interesting test tonight.


----------



## skribs (Oct 5, 2018)

skribs said:


> The other two who were injured are testing for their 1st degree black belt today, in a few hours.  It's interesting, because these are two completely different people.
> 
> One is a guy in his 30s or 40s, who is a little awkward, both socially and in his movements.  He started at my dojang a little bit before I did, and he progressed at his own pace.  It's taken him a long time to memorize the patterns, and a long time as well for him to get the mind-body connection down.  He still struggles with a lot, but he's worked real hard and has come a long way since he started.
> 
> ...



They passed as well.

The man has always had trouble with remembering the patterns and he didn't forget a single thing today during the 3 hour test.

The girl has always been good, but she was struggling to catch up on everything after coming back from her injury.  She needed a lot of last-minute practice and made a lot of mistakes before the test.  During the test she was perfect.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 6, 2018)

Ah that's awesome, good on them! It is cool seeing all the different people training and how they learn hey!


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 6, 2018)

Well done to the whole lot of you.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> The other two who were injured are testing for their 1st degree black belt today, in a few hours.  It's interesting, because these are two completely different people.
> 
> One is a guy in his 30s or 40s, who is a little awkward, both socially and in his movements.  He started at my dojang a little bit before I did, and he progressed at his own pace.  It's taken him a long time to memorize the patterns, and a long time as well for him to get the mind-body connection down.  He still struggles with a lot, but he's worked real hard and has come a long way since he started.
> 
> ...


Hopefully this won’t derail the thread too much  ...

What’s the “intermediate ranks between dan ranks” all about? Are these regular interval tests between dan tests? What’s the point? Are there fees for these?

Just trying to wrap my head around it. Hopefully this won’t turn into a circus.


----------



## skribs (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Hopefully this won’t derail the thread too much  ...
> 
> What’s the “intermediate ranks between dan ranks” all about? Are these regular interval tests between dan tests? What’s the point? Are there fees for these?
> 
> Just trying to wrap my head around it. Hopefully this won’t turn into a circus.



So we have Dan ranks and Gup ranks.  The next Dan is how many gups you have.  I think of it like application versions.  You have Black Belt 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2, then upgrade to 2nd degree (2.0).  Then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and now I'm 3.0.

It does a few things.  It breaks up the curriculum into smaller, more manageable chunks.  At the black belt level our school includes additional forms from what Kukkiwon requires, as well as some hapkido techniques and weapon forms.  It also helps break up the time between degrees.  So students who have to wait for the year or so until they're eligible to advance still feel like they're progressing.

There is a fee, but the fee is similar to that for a colored belt tests.  Beginners have a $40 fee, intermediate a $50 fee, and advanced have a $60 fee, black belt gup tests are $70.  Our tuition + test fee is competitively priced with other schools in the area.  (You have to consider the whole package if you're going to look at costs).

The killer on the wallet isn't the gup tests, it's the Dan tests.  Those are around $700 for 1st degree and more as you go up.  But included in that is an embroidered belt, a new uniform (which are usually $150 by themselves), semi-private lessons with the others testing for black belt, and the Kukkiwon registration, which I understand from other threads here can be quite expensive on its own.

---

Before we risk de-railing the thread (although it's run its course for it's main topic, so we might as well), as I said above, you have to factor in all the costs students pay.  So if you have two schools that test every other month, and one school is $110/month, and the other is $90/month and $60 per belt test, which is better?

Well, the second school, if you test every testing period, you're paying an average of $120/month and advancing quick.  But if you test every 4 months you're paying $105/month.  Every 6 months you pay $100/month.  So there is some variance in how much it will affect your monthly cost.

I haven't personally priced out the other schools in the area, but I've had several students tell me that when they looked at the total cost for tuition, tests, and any other fees, that our school was the best price.


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> the Kukkiwon registration, which I understand from other threads here can be quite expensive on its own.



From other sources, that costs like $75...


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> So we have Dan ranks and Gup ranks.  The next Dan is how many gups you have.  I think of it like application versions.  You have Black Belt 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2, then upgrade to 2nd degree (2.0).  Then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and now I'm 3.0.
> 
> It does a few things.  It breaks up the curriculum into smaller, more manageable chunks.  At the black belt level our school includes additional forms from what Kukkiwon requires, as well as some hapkido techniques and weapon forms.  It also helps break up the time between degrees.  So students who have to wait for the year or so until they're eligible to advance still feel like they're progressing.
> 
> ...


People just see a single price and don’t think about the overall cost of attendance. The first time I heard that my 1st dan is going to cost me $400 and some change, I got sticker shock. Dan testing is done by our founder at his dojo in NYC, a few doors down from the Flatiron Building. Cost of doing business there isn’t exactly cheap. I pay $55/month I’m tuition currently, which is by far the lowest in my area (not the NYC dojo$ My 1st dan in my previous organization cost $125 in 1999, but tuition was almost double what I’m paying now, so I’m still ahead financially (not that that’s what’s driving anything).

I haven’t heard of the testing between dan ranks before.


----------



## skribs (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> People just see a single price and don’t think about the overall cost of attendance. The first time I heard that my 1st dan is going to cost me $400 and some change, I got sticker shock. Dan testing is done by our founder at his dojo in NYC, a few doors down from the Flatiron Building. Cost of doing business there isn’t exactly cheap. I pay $55/month I’m tuition currently, which is by far the lowest in my area (not the NYC dojo$ My 1st dan in my previous organization cost $125 in 1999, but tuition was almost double what I’m paying now, so I’m still ahead financially (not that that’s what’s driving anything).
> 
> I haven’t heard of the testing between dan ranks before.



I'm not sure how many other schools do it.  We get certificates from KKW for those, so at the very least the organization accommodates the school in this regard.  But I think it's like the Keub ranks in that they're not enforced from school-to-school.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> So we have Dan ranks and Gup ranks.  The next Dan is how many gups you have.  I think of it like application versions.  You have Black Belt 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2, then upgrade to 2nd degree (2.0).  Then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and now I'm 3.0.
> 
> It does a few things.  It breaks up the curriculum into smaller, more manageable chunks.  At the black belt level our school includes additional forms from what Kukkiwon requires, as well as some hapkido techniques and weapon forms.  It also helps break up the time between degrees.  So students who have to wait for the year or so until they're eligible to advance still feel like they're progressing.
> 
> ...


Along the derail, my solution to that would be either guestimating how long it takes to get 1st dan, (lets say 2 years for math purposes), after the first year I know if I want to continue till then. So I start putting money away, an extra $60 a month, along with the $30 a month for testing until then (assuming test every 2 months to get to black belt). That's $90 that I'm putting away, bringing it to $180 a month, for the second year, and 120 a month the first year. Not sure how long you spend at each 1.x for black belt, so can't add that math in. 

If the school is worth 120 then 180 a month to me, and I can afford that, I would pay it. But to me, I'm paying for instruction, not a rank. So in general I would rather pay X amount a month for instruction, which I care about, and 0 for a rank, which I don't care about. There's also a chance that I will stop at 1st kyu, and not advance beyond that, rather than pay $700 to say "I am a black belt". I can still refine my technique regardless of the color of the belt around my waist, and by the time I know all the material up to black, I should have enough material to keep me busy for years, if not decades.


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

And I thought it was pretty expensive to do the black belt test (including mandatory seminar) for me.

It's about £110 or thereabouts, including federation registration...


----------



## skribs (Oct 11, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Along the derail, my solution to that would be either guestimating how long it takes to get 1st dan, (lets say 2 years for math purposes), after the first year I know if I want to continue till then. So I start putting money away, an extra $60 a month, along with the $30 a month for testing until then (assuming test every 2 months to get to black belt). That's $90 that I'm putting away, bringing it to $180 a month, for the second year, and 120 a month the first year. Not sure how long you spend at each 1.x for black belt, so can't add that math in.
> 
> If the school is worth 120 then 180 a month to me, and I can afford that, I would pay it. But to me, I'm paying for instruction, not a rank. So in general I would rather pay X amount a month for instruction, which I care about, and 0 for a rank, which I don't care about. There's also a chance that I will stop at 1st kyu, and not advance beyond that, rather than pay $700 to say "I am a black belt". I can still refine my technique regardless of the color of the belt around my waist, and by the time I know all the material up to black, I should have enough material to keep me busy for years, if not decades.



We generally get more detailed in our refinements as we go up.  I usually see a huge skill jump in someone shortly after testing because of how much harder they're pushed in the next class.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 11, 2018)

skribs said:


> We generally get more detailed in our refinements as we go up.  I usually see a huge skill jump in someone shortly after testing because of how much harder they're pushed in the next class.


Why is there a change in how hard someone is pushed?
And im assuming if someone was a belt below someone else, but they showed the sane mastery, they would get the same amount of detail to refine.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Hopefully this won’t derail the thread too much  ...
> 
> What’s the “intermediate ranks between dan ranks” all about? Are these regular interval tests between dan tests? What’s the point? Are there fees for these?
> 
> Just trying to wrap my head around it. Hopefully this won’t turn into a circus.


I agree. Isn't it behooving of the instructor(s), school, and system to keep up with who is where in their belt progression and when? I have been blasted for my recent opinions on kata, I guess because they are not traditional, but I hear no one making much of all these "mid grade" belt progressions.


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I agree. Isn't it behooving of the instructor(s), school, and system to keep up with who is where in their belt progression and when? I have been blasted for my recent opinions on kata, I guess because they are not traditional, but I hear no one making much of all these "mid grade" belt progressions.



Oh rest assured, the mid grade belting has been discussed quite heavily...

I personally don't think mid grade belting is sensible, and charging for these tests is dubious.

At my school, they do a couple of 'extra' tests for juniors - two sub grades between 10th and 9th kup.

There is the suggests of offering mid grade testing between other grades for juniors too - but I think that's kind of acceptable because they're on about doubling the amount of tests for the younger lower grades, but halving the test fees (total cost remains the same).

Also personal opinion - if a Dan ranked person needs interim testing to feel they're progressing, I think they need to look at themselves and what they're actually doing...


(I don't recall your opinions on kata - care to remind me? Public or pm, either way is fine if you feel so inclined)


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> Oh rest assured, the mid grade belting has been discussed quite heavily...
> 
> I personally don't think mid grade belting is sensible, and charging for these tests is dubious.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Kids’ colored belt testing is one thing. Dan testing, especially adult dan testing is quite another.

Other than making money, I see no realistic point in it. If an adult needs all these mini tests between dan tests to chart their own progress and/or stay motivated, then I’m truly at a loss for words. Other than reevaluate exactly why you’re training, of course.


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Other than making money, I see no realistic point in it. If an adult needs all these mini tests between dan tests to chart their own progress and/or stay motivated, then I’m truly at a loss for words. Other than reevaluate exactly why you’re training, of course.



I've just tested to 2nd kup (penultimate colour belt), now have an absolute minimum of 6 months before testing to 1st kup.

Then a minimum of a year to 1st dan test.

Then 18 months to 2nd dan.

Those are minimum "in grade" times, there are other eligibility criteria.

There is no compulsion (or even availability) of interim testing...


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> I've just tested to 2nd kup (penultimate colour belt), now have an absolute minimum of 6 months before testing to 1st kup.
> 
> Then a minimum of a year to 1st dan test.
> 
> ...


Practically the same for me. I just tested and promoted to 1st kyu on Monday. Minimum 1 year wait for 1st dan. Minimum 2 years between 1st and 2nd dan. No interim testing. I don’t see any point in it either.

I was preparing for my 2nd dan test in my previous organization when I left to go to grad school. My teacher recommended me a few months before the test was given. I was about 6 weeks away from testing when I was offered a graduate assistant position and had to pack up and leave. There were no tests in that 2 year time period. None were necessary; my teacher knew me, knew I had reached the minimum time period, and felt I was ready to be promoted.

I hate to sound the wrong way here, but the intermediate testing between dan ranks honestly sounds childish at best, and realistically more like a cash grab to me. But I guess it’s one of those things that you have to be in it to understand it. I’m in no position to make the rules, nor do I want to. To each his own.


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I hate to sound the wrong way here, but the intermediate testing between dan ranks sounds childish at best, and more like a cash grab. But I guess it’s one of those things that you have to be in it to understand it, I guess. I’m in no position to make the rules, nor do I want to.



I get what you mean - I don't see the point to it from a student perspective, but I'm not there either...


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I just tested and promoted to 1st kyu on Monday



I wasn't aware of that, well done


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> I get what you mean - I don't see the point to it from a student perspective, but I'm not there either...


I guess it’s like cutting weight in wrestling. So many people couldn’t figure out why I’d do it. My reply ended up becoming “you have to be in it to understand it.”


----------



## pdg (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I guess it’s like cutting weight in wrestling. So many people couldn’t figure out why I’d do it. My reply ended up becoming “you have to be in it to understand it.”



Have to admit, I only partially understand it...

How wide were the weight categories?


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> I wasn't aware of that, well done


Thanks. It was a pretty physically difficult test. I did pretty well by my own self-imposed standards. I could’ve done a little better, could’ve done a lot worse. The promotion is all fine and good, but it’s not that high on my priorities nor my sense of pride (for lack of a better phrase). I love the pressure, atmosphere, and challenge. The shiny new patch on my belt isn’t really that important. Been there, done that.

But sincerely, thanks.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> Have to admit, I only partially understand it...
> 
> How wide were the weight categories?


They’re closer now, back in the late 80s-early 90s when I was competing, it depended on the weight class. Lower weight classes were about 7lbs on average. Upper weight classes were further apart. I wrestled at 177 my senior year. It went 155, 167, 177, 215, 250. My junior year I wrestled at 167, and cut weight to wrestle at 155 for the NYS qualifier tournament series. Naturally weighing around 170, I cut about 13lbs in 2 days. That sucked. Why did I do that? I had a far better chance at going further at the 155 weight class than 167. There were a few guys who I had no chance of beating at 167, and the 155 class talent pool wasn’t as deep. It makes sense if you’re in it 

250 lbs was an “optional” weight class (as was 91), meaning there were no forfeits for those. Forfeit means if a team doesn’t have anyone at that weight class, the wrestler who doesn’t have an opponent gets a win on their record, and the opposing team gets 6 points for their team score. 

NYS has shifted the weight classes around and added some weight classes a number of times since, and it’s about 7 or 8 lbs between all weight classes now. That’s far better for the wrestlers and the sport overall.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 11, 2018)

pdg said:


> Oh rest assured, the mid grade belting has been discussed quite heavily...
> 
> I personally don't think mid grade belting is sensible, and charging for these tests is dubious.
> 
> ...


It is in the Kata Critique post. It is a rather embarrassing pissing contest. In short, the argument centers around whether kata competitions have any value at all.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 11, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Practically the same for me. I just tested and promoted to 1st kyu on Monday. Minimum 1 year wait for 1st dan. Minimum 2 years between 1st and 2nd dan. No interim testing. I don’t see any point in it either.
> 
> I was preparing for my 2nd dan test in my previous organization when I left to go to grad school. My teacher recommended me a few months before the test was given. I was about 6 weeks away from testing when I was offered a graduate assistant position and had to pack up and leave. There were no tests in that 2 year time period. None were necessary; my teacher knew me, knew I had reached the minimum time period, and felt I was ready to be promoted.
> 
> I hate to sound the wrong way here, but the intermediate testing between dan ranks honestly sounds childish at best, and realistically more like a cash grab to me. But I guess it’s one of those things that you have to be in it to understand it. I’m in no position to make the rules, nor do I want to. To each his own.


Ah dude, thought you could slip by with a casual "let's move on" mention... weeeell gotcha!

Congratulations! That's awesome to hear, osu


----------



## skribs (Oct 11, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Why is there a change in how hard someone is pushed?
> And im assuming if someone was a belt below someone else, but they showed the sane mastery, they would get the same amount of detail to refine.



Because when you go to the red belt class, we do drills that are appropriate for red belts.  Which will be mostly combinations involving roundhouse kicks and back kicks, and then individual practice on tornado kicks and spinning hook kicks (for example).  In black belt class, we do drills that are appropriate for black belts, which are much more complex combinations which place those more advanced kicks in the mix, and get you to work on skills like direction changes.

So there is a significant jump in your ability to do spinning hook kicks when you've got to do 2-3 of them in a combo than when you do them slowly one at a time.



dvcochran said:


> I agree. Isn't it behooving of the instructor(s), school, and system to keep up with who is where in their belt progression and when? I have been blasted for my recent opinions on kata, I guess because they are not traditional, but I hear no one making much of all these "mid grade" belt progressions.



We have lots of new stuff at each mid-grade.  It's not just to do the same form for 4 tests.



JR 137 said:


> Yeah. Kids’ colored belt testing is one thing. Dan testing, especially adult dan testing is quite another.
> 
> Other than making money, I see no realistic point in it. If an adult needs all these mini tests between dan tests to chart their own progress and/or stay motivated, then I’m truly at a loss for words. Other than reevaluate exactly why you’re training, of course.



Most of our black belts are in the 12-16 age range.  As for myself, I don't "need" it.  But I do find it useful to take the curriculum in chunks and so as soon as I'm ready for the next chunk, I test.  I'll be taking a total of 5 tests over the next 3 years to get my 4th degree.  It's not like I'm throwing down an extra $70 every month to keep my rank.


----------



## pdg (Oct 12, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> They’re closer now, back in the late 80s-early 90s when I was competing, it depended on the weight class. Lower weight classes were about 7lbs on average. Upper weight classes were further apart. I wrestled at 177 my senior year. It went 155, 167, 177, 215, 250. My junior year I wrestled at 167, and cut weight to wrestle at 155 for the NYS qualifier tournament series. Naturally weighing around 170, I cut about 13lbs in 2 days. That sucked. Why did I do that? I had a far better chance at going further at the 155 weight class than 167. There were a few guys who I had no chance of beating at 167, and the 155 class talent pool wasn’t as deep. It makes sense if you’re in it
> 
> 250 lbs was an “optional” weight class (as was 91), meaning there were no forfeits for those. Forfeit means if a team doesn’t have anyone at that weight class, the wrestler who doesn’t have an opponent gets a win on their record, and the opposing team gets 6 points for their team score.
> 
> NYS has shifted the weight classes around and added some weight classes a number of times since, and it’s about 7 or 8 lbs between all weight classes now. That’s far better for the wrestlers and the sport overall.



So the weight quoted is the minimum for that category - 155 is the group that covers 155 through to 166, then 167 to 176, etc?

Can't say I morally agree with cutting or bulking to get into a segment with less competition, but I competitively understand it 

I can't see much of a physical advantage from say a 10 or 12 lb difference, but hey, if there's only 3 people in the lower group and 50 in the higher one it tips the chances...


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 12, 2018)

pdg said:


> So the weight quoted is the minimum for that category - 155 is the group that covers 155 through to 166, then 167 to 176, etc?
> 
> Can't say I morally agree with cutting or bulking to get into a segment with less competition, but I competitively understand it
> 
> I can't see much of a physical advantage from say a 10 or 12 lb difference, but hey, if there's only 3 people in the lower group and 50 in the higher one it tips the chances...


Weight quoted is the MAXIMUM. When I wrestled 177, if I weighed in at 177.1, I’d have to wrestle in the 215 weight class.

Regardless of what you weighed in at, you were allowed to go up one weight class if you chose to. 

There are also team points, which gives the weight cutting another dimension. During a “dual meet,” ie when one school wrestlers another, the results of each match are scored for a team score. The team points have changed a bit here and there, but the principle is the same - 3 points for a win by a few points, 5 points for a win by more points, 6 points for a win by pin, 6 for a forfeit. So cutting weight can be advantageous from a team score standpoint. I might have to cut weight to wrestle a better opponent and let someone else take my weight class if we both have a good chance of beating our opponents.

Then there’s multiple people at the same weight class on the same team. If there are 2 or more of us at 177, we’d wrestle in practice the night before to determine who’s going to wrestle in the meet the next night. If you lose and no one’s in the weight class below you, you’ve got a match.

There’s a lot of scenarios. On paper it seems stupid to need to cut weight. A lot of people on the outside would say “if both wrestlers are cutting weight, why not just weigh what you weigh and wrestle?” The only answer that people understood and stopped more questions was “it’s a lot more complicated than that.”

NYS did a lot to get rid of the constant weight cutting. It’s still there and always will be, but it’s night and day different now. Adding weight class and weight certification have eliminated a lot of it. Weight certification means you get weighed in at the beginning of the season, and aren’t allowed to compete at a lower weight class than an official determines. Depending on factors such as body fat percentage (and not BMI charts), you’re typically only allowed to go down one weight class during the season. In rare instances they’ll give you two or won’t allow you to go down at all. For the post season, you have to have made weight for the weight class you want to compete in at least 50% of the time. So if I wanted to go at 167 for the post season, I’d have needed to weigh in at 167 for half of my matches. I didn’t have to compete at that weight half the time, just qualify to compete there half the time. 

Yeah, it’s complicated


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 12, 2018)

pdg said:


> So the weight quoted is the minimum for that category - 155 is the group that covers 155 through to 166, then 167 to 176, etc?
> 
> Can't say I morally agree with cutting or bulking to get into a segment with less competition, but I competitively understand it
> 
> I can't see much of a physical advantage from say a 10 or 12 lb difference, but hey, if there's only 3 people in the lower group and 50 in the higher one it tips the chances...


Here’s the difference one weight class can make...

One of my wrestlers when I was coaching had a decent chance of qualifying for the state tournament at 98 lbs. no way he would’ve won it, and qualifying for the tournament would’ve been difficult but possible.

At 91, he won the state title. Pinned his opponent early in the second period.

At 167 I had a two time state champ I needed to beat to get to the state tournament, which was never going to happen. And there were 3 other guys who gave him a hard time. At 155, I had a good chance if the tournament played out right. I took second in the qualifiers (eliminating me) at 155. I’d have been out the second round at 167.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 12, 2018)

skribs said:


> Because when you go to the red belt class, we do drills that are appropriate for red belts.  Which will be mostly combinations involving roundhouse kicks and back kicks, and then individual practice on tornado kicks and spinning hook kicks (for example).  In black belt class, we do drills that are appropriate for black belts, which are much more complex combinations which place those more advanced kicks in the mix, and get you to work on skills like direction changes.
> 
> So there is a significant jump in your ability to do spinning hook kicks when you've got to do 2-3 of them in a combo than when you do them slowly one at a time.
> 
> ...



I found that a curious comment about paying money every month to keep your rank. What was your reasoning? I feel taking a test at five specific points in time over 3 years is devaluing to the whole higher Dan belt ranking system. Do you mean you are given certain chunks of the curriculum over time? I never know exactly when my next BB test is going to be. I do know I have definite curriculum to learn between belts, that the proficiency is important and I better be ready for when it happens. As much for my personal satisfaction with the promotion as anything else. Saying you are not ready is frowned upon. We may get a few month to "prep" and polish but that is not nearly enough time to learn everything needed to promote. FYI, it is very, very seldom someone promotes on the minimum time anniversary.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 12, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah dude, thought you could slip by with a casual "let's move on" mention... weeeell gotcha!
> 
> Congratulations! That's awesome to hear, osu


Congrat's on promoting @JR 137 ! Good to hear someone with the same viewpoint.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 12, 2018)

pdg said:


> I've just tested to 2nd kup (penultimate colour belt), now have an absolute minimum of 6 months before testing to 1st kup.
> 
> Then a minimum of a year to 1st dan test.
> 
> ...


I just realized I forgot to say congratulations, so...ummm... congratulations!

Sorry, I meant to say it in my original reply to this post.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 12, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> Congrat's on promoting @JR 137 ! Good to hear someone with the same viewpoint.


Thank you.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 12, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I just realized I forgot to say congratulations, so...ummm... congratulations!
> 
> Sorry, I meant to say it in my original reply to this post.


penultimate. Cool,  Ijust learned a new word!


----------



## skribs (Oct 12, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I found that a curious comment about paying money every month to keep your rank. What was your reasoning? I feel taking a test at five specific points in time over 3 years is devaluing to the whole higher Dan belt ranking system. Do you mean you are given certain chunks of the curriculum over time? I never know exactly when my next BB test is going to be. I do know I have definite curriculum to learn between belts, that the proficiency is important and I better be ready for when it happens. As much for my personal satisfaction with the promotion as anything else. Saying you are not ready is frowned upon. We may get a few month to "prep" and polish but that is not nearly enough time to learn everything needed to promote. FYI, it is very, very seldom someone promotes on the minimum time anniversary.



The curriculum is given to chunks based on your rank.  So a 3rd dan will learn the chunks to get 1st gup, and 1st gup the chunks to get 2nd gup and so on.  You test when you're ready for the gup.  There's also the KKW rules of minimum times to test.  In order to test for 4th dan, I will have to have been a 3rd dan for a minimum of 3 years (for KKW rules) and be 3rd dan, 4th gup (school rules).  

So I could test in December for 1st gup, February for 2nd gup, April for 3rd gup, and June for 4th gup, and then wait just over 2 years and test for 4th dan.  Or I could test for 1st gup in a year, 2nd gup in a year, 3rd gup in a year, and 4th gup in a year, and then test right away for 4th dan because it's been 4 years.

My plan is somewhere in the middle to do the gup tests roughly every 6 months, which will give me a year to get ready to go from 4th gup to 4th dan.

----

One thing I think it does is keep people coming.  People tend to get their degree and then take time off before coming back and expect to catch back up right away.  People will take a break and do another activity for several months, go on long vacations, or something else.  So it does keep people coming back because in order to get your next degree, there's 2 requirements that need to be met.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 13, 2018)

pdg said:


> I've just tested to 2nd kup (penultimate colour belt), now have an absolute minimum of 6 months before testing to 1st kup.



Ah crap also forgot haha, congrats bro that's awesome


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> The curriculum is given to chunks based on your rank.  So a 3rd dan will learn the chunks to get 1st gup, and 1st gup the chunks to get 2nd gup and so on.  You test when you're ready for the gup.  There's also the KKW rules of minimum times to test.  In order to test for 4th dan, I will have to have been a 3rd dan for a minimum of 3 years (for KKW rules) and be 3rd dan, 4th gup (school rules).
> 
> So I could test in December for 1st gup, February for 2nd gup, April for 3rd gup, and June for 4th gup, and then wait just over 2 years and test for 4th dan.  Or I could test for 1st gup in a year, 2nd gup in a year, 3rd gup in a year, and 4th gup in a year, and then test right away for 4th dan because it's been 4 years.
> 
> ...


Yeah I can see the value in that in a way, it perhaps even shows a greater commitment from the student, as there are particulr requirements along the way.

But one thing I've always liked is the 2 years for 2nd Dan, 3 years for 3rd Dan etc... just think it's a cool setup, and allows you alot of time to really deepen your understanding and practice at that grade. It was the reason I took my sweet *** time for my gradings!


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 13, 2018)

skribs said:


> The curriculum is given to chunks based on your rank.  So a 3rd dan will learn the chunks to get 1st gup, and 1st gup the chunks to get 2nd gup and so on.  You test when you're ready for the gup.  There's also the KKW rules of minimum times to test.  In order to test for 4th dan, I will have to have been a 3rd dan for a minimum of 3 years (for KKW rules) and be 3rd dan, 4th gup (school rules).
> 
> So I could test in December for 1st gup, February for 2nd gup, April for 3rd gup, and June for 4th gup, and then wait just over 2 years and test for 4th dan.  Or I could test for 1st gup in a year, 2nd gup in a year, 3rd gup in a year, and 4th gup in a year, and then test right away for 4th dan because it's been 4 years.
> 
> ...


I am guessing I jumped in the middle of the conversation. Are you a 3rd Dan that has moved schools and are quickly navigating up through the gup ranks? Of course I don't know what style you are talking about but usually gup ranks start at 10th or 9th and go to 1st gup. Are you saying you only have to get to 4th gup (high green or blue) to test for 4th Dan? I don't think I could learn a new color belt curriculum in a few months.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Oct 13, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I am guessing I jumped in the middle of the conversation. Are you a 3rd Dan that has moved schools and are quickly navigating up through the gup ranks? Of course I don't know what style you are talking about but usually gup ranks start at 10th or 9th and go to 1st gup. Are you saying you only have to get to 4th gup (high green or blue) to test for 4th Dan? I don't think I could learn a new color belt curriculum in a few months.



No, his school is one of those that have geup ranks (colored belts) and then Dan ranks with geup ranks (it's not really a correct usage of the word) between Dan ranks. It's one of those Stars and Bells and Stripes things like what was discussed in another thread recently. It's more commonly done with kids ranks, but this isn't the first school I've seen that did it with Dan ranks too.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 13, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I am guessing I jumped in the middle of the conversation. Are you a 3rd Dan that has moved schools and are quickly navigating up through the gup ranks? Of course I don't know what style you are talking about but usually gup ranks start at 10th or 9th and go to 1st gup. Are you saying you only have to get to 4th gup (high green or blue) to test for 4th Dan? I don't think I could learn a new color belt curriculum in a few months.


Not to speak for him, but my understanding of it is those are ranks between dan ranks, not colored belt ranks. So there’s 1.0 dan, 1.1 dan, 1.2 dan, etc. And you test for the .1, .2,.3, etc.

My former school did something similar at kyu/colored ranks. So let’s say I’m a blue belt. After a little while, I’m “tested” on my kata for that rank. I pass that, I get a strip of electrical tape on my belt. Then s little while later I’m tested on one-steps and other standardized stuff. I pass that, and I get another strip of electrical tape. With both “tests” passed, I’m eligible to test for my next rank. I put test in quotes because it wasn’t a formal test, per se. we got called up in front of the class, did our thing, critiqued each other, then got the stripe on our belt if we were up to standards. No fees, nothing special about it. That was only at kyu levels, not dan levels. My current school doesn’t do that. Not sure how I’d feel about that at black belt level, but to each his own.


----------



## skribs (Oct 13, 2018)

Keub is colored belt.  Gup (pronounced like "up" with a g in front of it) are the between dan ranks.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 14, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Not to speak for him, but my understanding of it is those are ranks between dan ranks, not colored belt ranks. So there’s 1.0 dan, 1.1 dan, 1.2 dan, etc. And you test for the .1, .2,.3, etc.
> 
> My former school did something similar at kyu/colored ranks. So let’s say I’m a blue belt. After a little while, I’m “tested” on my kata for that rank. I pass that, I get a strip of electrical tape on my belt. Then s little while later I’m tested on one-steps and other standardized stuff. I pass that, and I get another strip of electrical tape. With both “tests” passed, I’m eligible to test for my next rank. I put test in quotes because it wasn’t a formal test, per se. we got called up in front of the class, did our thing, critiqued each other, then got the stripe on our belt if we were up to standards. No fees, nothing special about it. That was only at kyu levels, not dan levels. My current school doesn’t do that. Not sure how I’d feel about that at black belt level, but to each his own.


I suppose that works for physically and temporarily learning a technique but there is something of value gained when you have to prove you know all the requirements for a belt at the same time. Repetition, repetition, repetition. I wonder how the person who tested that way does when at their next test the instructor says "starting at basic 1 do all your forms" or one steps or kicks, etc... There just seems to be a mental preparedness value that is not being measured or learned when you test that way. Spoon fed?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I suppose that works for physically and temporarily learning a technique but there is something of value gained when you have to prove you know all the requirements for a belt at the same time. Repetition, repetition, repetition. I wonder how the person who tested that way does when at their next test the instructor says "starting at basic 1 do all your forms" or one steps or kicks, etc... There just seems to be a mental preparedness value that is not being measured or learned when you test that way. Spoon fed?


It depends what the purpose of the test is. I want students to eventually remember every named technique and form, but that’s mostly  not what I’m testing for. I’m testing physical ability, so some tests are split, to ensure the focus is on the technique, rather than their memory of a list. 

Neither is wrong, just testing for different things.


----------



## dvcochran (Oct 14, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> It depends what the purpose of the test is. I want students to eventually remember every named technique and form, but that’s mostly  not what I’m testing for. I’m testing physical ability, so some tests are split, to ensure the focus is on the technique, rather than their memory of a list.
> 
> Neither is wrong, just testing for different things.


I agree that only knowing a technique physically (sort of) is part of the learning process. Especially for kids and color belts. If we are to truly hold and keep the levels of BB at the heralded level we want it to be, plus the fact that you have years instead of months to learn the curriculum, shouldn't more be expected? My 3rd Dan testing was rough. Over the course of 5-6 hours I did all the basic, Pinon, and Palgwe forms (no stinking Taegeuk's). Then 8 WTF forms ( not Ilyo), and Kong San Geun multiple times (think teaching dummy), 35 one-steps in succession probably 4-5 times each while my GM used me as a training tool, and sparred every BB and adult color belt. About 20 sparring sessions.  Except for the one time I did all 35 one steps in a row everything was broken up and very random making it much more mentally difficult (for me). I have been in some bad stand-off situations that certainly peak your stress for a short amount of time, but have never had anything stress me as bad as that testing did for so long. It started hard and finished hard. Oh yea, I had to do several breaks, 6 or 8. About the middle of the day I was told to do a running jump spinning side kick on 4 boards. On my first attempt (right after a long sparring session)I missed on my alignment and my heel slid off the edge of the boards knocking me off balance. I landed rolled up on my right ankle. I thought it was a bad sprain and kept going, making the break on my next try and continued testing for 3-4 more hours. By the end of the day my ankle was huge. Went to my ortho the next day and found I had sheared off a quarter size piece of bone on my ankle that had to be removed. I am not really sure how I was able to shut out the pain and keep going but the whole testing is an example of the mental value I am trying to make a point of.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I agree that only knowing a technique physically (sort of) is part of the learning process. Especially for kids and color belts. If we are to truly hold and keep the levels of BB at the heralded level we want it to be, plus the fact that you have years instead of months to learn the curriculum, shouldn't more be expected? My 3rd Dan testing was rough. Over the course of 5-6 hours I did all the basic, Pinon, and Palgwe forms (no stinking Taegeuk's). Then 8 WTF forms ( not Ilyo), and Kong San Geun multiple times (think teaching dummy), 35 one-steps in succession probably 4-5 times each while my GM used me as a training tool, and sparred every BB and adult color belt. About 20 sparring sessions.  Except for the one time I did all 35 one steps in a row everything was broken up and very random making it much more mentally difficult (for me). I have been in some bad stand-off situations that certainly peak your stress for a short amount of time, but have never had anything stress me as bad as that testing did for so long. It started hard and finished hard. Oh yea, I had to do several breaks, 6 or 8. About the middle of the day I was told to do a running jump spinning side kick on 4 boards. On my first attempt (right after a long sparring session)I missed on my alignment and my heel slid off the edge of the boards knocking me off balance. I landed rolled up on my right ankle. I thought it was a bad sprain and kept going, making the break on my next try and continued testing for 3-4 more hours. By the end of the day my ankle was huge. Went to my ortho the next day and found I had sheared off a quarter size piece of bone on my ankle that had to be removed. I am not really sure how I was able to shut out the pain and keep going but the whole testing is an example of the mental value I am trying to make a point of.


That’s a valid approach. And t has some strong points. I haven’t decided yet (haven’t had to, within my curriculum) decided whether I’m going the stress-testing route for BB testing. Depending when those parts are learned, they may be easy memory by that point. I’m not big on confounding memory testing with skill testing. I expect students to know all 50 names techniques (similar to your 1-steps) and all 5 forms. But I don’t yet require them to name them - to recall the list. I name the technique or form and expect them to know what it is and do it well.


----------



## skribs (Oct 14, 2018)

@gpseymour 

I get the feeling in a lot of threads that a lot of people look at my posts and say "your school is different from mine, therefore your school is wrong."  It's nice to see someone who realizes there are different teaching methods for different schools.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2018)

skribs said:


> @gpseymour
> 
> I get the feeling in a lot of threads that a lot of people look at my posts and say "your school is different from mine, therefore your school is wrong."  It's nice to see someone who realizes there are different teaching methods for different schools.


Well, yours _is_ wrong. 

Seriously, yep. I've taken a long look at the testing styles I've not experienced to see what the advantages are. I've found some useful advantages in most testing styles, including not testing and/or no ranks all the way up to long, difficult tests that include things that aren't directly related to physical skills for MA. I actually have an affinity for several approaches, so have had trouble deciding which method I want to use. That led me to use different testing approaches at different levels.


----------



## skribs (Oct 14, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Well, yours _is_ wrong.
> 
> Seriously, yep. I've taken a long look at the testing styles I've not experienced to see what the advantages are. I've found some useful advantages in most testing styles, including not testing and/or no ranks all the way up to long, difficult tests that include things that aren't directly related to physical skills for MA. I actually have an affinity for several approaches, so have had trouble deciding which method I want to use. That led me to use different testing approaches at different levels.



Our school has a different testing style for hapkido than taekwondo.  The TKD test is more about memorization and stamina. Hapkido is more about the application.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2018)

skribs said:


> Our school has a different testing style for hapkido than taekwondo.  The TKD test is more about memorization and stamina. Hapkido is more about the application.


Great. Now you have me wanting to teach two tracks, so I can use two different testing methods. You're not helping.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 14, 2018)

skribs said:


> @gpseymour
> 
> I get the feeling in a lot of threads that a lot of people look at my posts and say "your school is different from mine, therefore your school is wrong."  It's nice to see someone who realizes there are different teaching methods for different schools.


It’s not just your school, it’s everyone’s. Mine included.

I tried to say several times “to each his own;” by that I mean whatever works best for the person. If I implied differently, I apologize. I like the way my school handles this better. Doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone else. I’m sure there’s things I’d think your school does better if I knew everything your school does.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> It’s not just your school, it’s everyone’s. Mine included.
> 
> I tried to say several times “to each his own;” by that I mean whatever works best for the person. If I implied differently, I apologize. I like the way my school handles this better. Doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone else. I’m sure there’s things I’d think your school does better if I knew everything your school does.


I think a lot of it just really comes down to what we get used to. I have a hard time dragging myself away from using testing like what I went through. I don't think there's anything inherently superior about it - it's just what I'm used to, so it feels "right".


----------



## skribs (Oct 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I think a lot of it just really comes down to what we get used to. I have a hard time dragging myself away from using testing like what I went through. I don't think there's anything inherently superior about it - it's just what I'm used to, so it feels "right".





JR 137 said:


> It’s not just your school, it’s everyone’s. Mine included.
> 
> I tried to say several times “to each his own;” by that I mean whatever works best for the person. If I implied differently, I apologize. I like the way my school handles this better. Doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone else. I’m sure there’s things I’d think your school does better if I knew everything your school does.



I think part of it is that people tend to see another way of doing things, and it's hard to acknowledge that the other way works, because if that works, does that mean your way doesn't work?  And it's not always about the pride in what you've chosen to do, it can also be about loyalty to your master or your style.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> I think part of it is that people tend to see another way of doing things, and it's hard to acknowledge that the other way works, because if that works, does that mean your way doesn't work?  And it's not always about the pride in what you've chosen to do, it can also be about loyalty to your master or your style.


Agreed. And we tend to subconsciously rationalize our choices after they're made. Our minds learn to dismiss other options after the fact by rationalizing the choice we made in a way that makes it seem somehow superior. Testing and rank are part of that. I've looked at a lot of different ways instructors, schools, and associations use both, and I really haven't found a uniquely compelling argument for or against most methods. Most of them have some potential for abuse, and some potential for good. Mostly, it seems to come down to whether they are used well, and what people like. Not much else seems to consistently matter.


----------



## skribs (Oct 15, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. And we tend to subconsciously rationalize our choices after they're made. Our minds learn to dismiss other options after the fact by rationalizing the choice we made in a way that makes it seem somehow superior. Testing and rank are part of that. I've looked at a lot of different ways instructors, schools, and associations use both, and I really haven't found a uniquely compelling argument for or against most methods. Most of them have some potential for abuse, and some potential for good. Mostly, it seems to come down to whether they are used well, and what people like. Not much else seems to consistently matter.



I've had similar thoughts about my current school, compared with the school I grew up in.  My first school was very much about getting it right from the bat.  They tended to slow down and focus on details at the beginner level that we gloss over at my current school until later.  That's the teaching style I honestly prefer.  But after a few years at my school and seeing the growth of the students here, it's hard to argue that this style works too.  Just took some time to see it.

And, @JR 137  I think that's another part of the issue, and I think I touched on it earlier.  People see a comment and that comment is out of place from what they're expecting, but it's in a good place the way your school does things.  I'll give an example within my own school.  We teach our white belts NOT to move their feet when they punch.  The reason is because it allows them to focus on the arm motion for now, and because the ones that do move their feet tend to run forward into the kid in front of them.  It's around green belt we start really teaching the full body motion of the technique.

But we had a black belt who would come to judge the tests, who expected the white belts to know the proper punching method, instead of just what they'd been taught.  He was older and couldn't come to class, so he didn't know the kids and where they were in their training.  So from his perspective, all of these kids had a horrible understanding of the art because they couldn't generate power.  But from my perspective, the kids are following what they've been told, and those skills will come at the proper time.

But if I make a comment on the forum and say "we teach our white belts not to move their feet when they punch" (and don't qualify that we do teach those skills later on) then how will someone read that?  They'll read that as our school has horrible punching techniques and you'll never learn proper technique at my school.


----------



## WaterGal (Oct 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> Keub is colored belt.  Gup (pronounced like "up" with a g in front of it) are the between dan ranks.



As far as I'm aware, it's 급 either way. Keub and gup are just different romanizations. Korean has fewer consenants than English, so "ㄱ" can be a "g" or "k" sound, and "ㅂ" can be "b" or "p".


----------



## skribs (Oct 15, 2018)

WaterGal said:


> As far as I'm aware, it's 급 either way. Keub and gup are just different romanizations. Korean has fewer consenants than English, so "ㄱ" can be a "g" or "k" sound, and "ㅂ" can be "b" or "p".



My Master pronounces "keub" like "k-ew-b" and gup like "g-up".  The vowel is a different sound too.


----------



## WaterGal (Oct 15, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Yeah. Kids’ colored belt testing is one thing. Dan testing, especially adult dan testing is quite another.
> 
> Other than making money, I see no realistic point in it. If an adult needs all these mini tests between dan tests to chart their own progress and/or stay motivated, then I’m truly at a loss for words. Other than reevaluate exactly why you’re training, of course.



TBH, the demographics of KKW TKD skew heavily towards children, and most KKW TKD black belts are kids/tweens/teens (technically "poom" rather than "dan" ranks, if they're under 15). I'd guesstimate that at least 2/3 of the black belts we've given are poom ranks. The mini tests can be good to help keep the kids motivated and moving along in their study. For an adult, it's a bit superfluous, but 10-year olds are less internally motivated.


----------



## WaterGal (Oct 15, 2018)

skribs said:


> My Master pronounces "keub" like "k-ew-b" and gup like "g-up".  The vowel is a different sound too.



Huh. I've never heard it pronounced "kewb" before. My old Korean teacher used the two interchangably, pronounced more like the latter. FWIW, "ㅡ" is more of an "uh" sound, not "eww".


----------



## skribs (Oct 15, 2018)

It's official.  Got my certificate and ID from Kukkiwon today.

Funny thing.  Earlier in the day a 5-year-old yellow belt came up to me and goes "you're STILL a black belt?"


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 16, 2018)

skribs said:


> It's official.  Got my certificate and ID from Kukkiwon today.
> 
> Funny thing.  Earlier in the day a 5-year-old yellow belt came up to me and goes "you're STILL a black belt?"


Congratulations, slacker.


----------



## JR 137 (Oct 16, 2018)

skribs said:


> It's official.  Got my certificate and ID from Kukkiwon today.
> 
> Funny thing.  Earlier in the day a 5-year-old yellow belt came up to me and goes "you're STILL a black belt?"


Reminds me of when I got my tattoo. My brother was about 7 at the time. A month or so later, he says “You still have that tattoo?”


----------

