# Scopes...?



## KempoGuy06 (Dec 10, 2007)

As some of you may know Ive been having a little trouble out of my left knee over the past year. Well I finally had the MRI done and the results came back normal. My doctors exact words were "I have no idea why. It doesnt make any sense to me". I kind of thougth she should have kept that to herself...LOL. Well she wants me to come back in and have it gone over again, after that she said they may want to go in with a scope and have a look around. 

My questions:
Has anyone had this done? What can expect as far as down time? Also do you think I should take my MRI results somewhere else and get a second opinion? 

Thanks in advance

B


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## Big Don (Dec 10, 2007)

Anytime a doctor cuts you, it becomes a question of which is more traumatic, the pain you were in or the pain caused by the operation. That said, anything less invasive is much better. You should always get a second opinion. Even when you like the first one.


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## shesulsa (Dec 10, 2007)

Couldn't find the article in the trade journals when I last looked (will have to keep looking) but the latest data is showing that arthoscopic surgery as a means of diagnosis is so rarely justified it's no longer recommended for solely diagnostic purposes.

If the MRI, xray and ultrasound are not revealing then you likely have sub-par technicians (either those who performed the scans or the ones reading them).  I'm further uncomfortable that the doc hasn't tried a physical therapy evaluation first ... has she?

ALWAYS get a second opinion before ANY surgery when possible - talk to your insurance company. Most insurance companies will pay 100% for second and third opinions.


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 10, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I'm further uncomfortable that the doc hasn't tried a physical therapy evaluation first ... has she?


 
She twisted on the knee and moved it around. She got it to pop by moving it a certain way, that is when she told me that it was more than likely my ACL. Is this what you mean?

B


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## shesulsa (Dec 10, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> She twisted on the knee and moved it around. She got it to pop by moving it a certain way, that is when she told me that it was more than likely my ACL. Is this what you mean?
> 
> B


First, no - that's not a physical therapy evaluation.

Second:  More than likely?  If this is a surgeon and she can't tell ... run. Or limp. Far, far away.

A physical therapist would look at your knee, how you walk on it, test your strength and range of motion, give you some safe strengthening exercises.  It's a good idea to do these before surgery if you have to have it, so it couldn't hurt.

But get a second opinion and do not - I repeat - DO NOT let this lady cut you open.  Any orthopedic surgeon who said to me, "I think it's your ACL - let's cut you open and find out" would see my *** hobbling out their door faster than they could fart. 

I'm not kidding.


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## Blindside (Dec 10, 2007)

My father is a doctor, his motto is "no unnecessary surgeries." 

Also, if you go to an orthopedic surgeon for an evaluation, the chances are their solution will involve, surprise, surprise, orthopedic surgery.  If you go to a PT, their evaluation and treatment will usually involve PT solutions first, then if they can't do anything, they may kick you to a surgeon.  (I should mention my mom is a PT.)  

That said, my sister had a career ending (professional ballet) knee issue that was dealt with quite successfuly with a scope.  She still teaches ballet and has full range of motion, and no loss of function, but it probably won't hold up to the rigors of professional ballet.

Lamont


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 10, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> First, no - that's not a physical therapy evaluation.
> 
> Second:  More than likely?  If this is a surgeon and she can't tell ... run. Or limp. Far, far away.
> 
> ...


Ok.

Well first let me clarify that she isnt a surgeon she is a general practitioner (sp?). The appointment I have this thurday is with her and one of the surgeon. She told me that going in with a scope was a possibility but that would be up to the surgeon. I guess I will see what they say and then go talk to a PT, I dont want to have surgery (1 for obvious reason and 2 its expensive)

Thanks

B


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## shesulsa (Dec 10, 2007)

Ah.  Yeah, see what the surgeon says.  The surgeon will likely order xrays and an MRI - and you should have these before having surgery.  Talk to him/her about physical therapy as an alternative first.  Do what you can to avoid surgery but if your ACL is gone, it's gone.

Keep us posted, there's a few of us here who've had several knee surgeries, ACL and scope included.


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## Kacey (Dec 10, 2007)

As shesulsa said, get a second opinion.  There's an adage in carpentry - "measure twice, cut once" that applies here as well.  A second opinion may well agree with the first one - but it may not, in which case you may need a third opinion.  Invasive procedures should be saved until last, not as a means of determining if the non-invasive procedures really registered what the doctor thought they did.


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 10, 2007)

Cool thanks everybody. Ill post an update after i go back to the doctor on thursday

B


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## kaizasosei (Dec 10, 2007)

your best bet is to keep geting a good amount of vitamin c and some other vitamins that will help you to regain lost or damaged cartiledge.
  but the scope as  you mentioned it,  as far as i understand it does not need  really change anything in your knee.  the doctor doesnt cut but stabs a sort of wire into the knee- question is, is it really just to look? i don't know if it would be worth it to just look..or will there be any changes made once inside?

i know a bit about this because my dad had such operations. since then he keeps fit only with good exercise and vitamins. 


j


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 12, 2007)

kaizasosei said:


> your best bet is to keep geting a good amount of vitamin c and some other vitamins that will help you to regain lost or damaged cartiledge.
> but the scope as  you mentioned it,  as far as i understand it does not need  really change anything in your knee.  the doctor doesnt cut but stabs a sort of wire into the knee- question is, is it really just to look? i don't know if it would be worth it to just look..or will there be any changes made once inside?
> 
> i know a bit about this because my dad had such operations. since then he keeps fit only with good exercise and vitamins.
> ...


Thanks for the advice but my problem was thought to be do mostly to tendons/ligaments I do have some cartilage damage so I will look into that.

B


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## kaizasosei (Dec 12, 2007)

for tendons and ligaments, it is best to rest, also, i think gentle stretching is very good.  stretch very correctly with straight back and when you start to feel a little pain then that's enough.  leave the area alone and don't overexert it for some weeks or even months depending on how complicated.  then after it has regenerated repeat the stretching to the point of feeling it slightly.  keep repeating until the pain has completely left.  
  chances are, the problem is not coming from the knee itself.  the whole body  needs to be checked out and closely observed in order eliminate unecessary stress on certain areas.  from toe to top of head, the movements of the whole are most likely containing some wrong or more unnatural positioning. aligning the whole body, the knee will also be very grateful.  
  i often compare the body to a chain that is pulled too tightly and breakes at the weakest link or the place that is most directly experiencing the stress.

j


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