# How Do You Feel About Sparing??



## ilhe4e12345 (Jun 18, 2012)

An interesting "event" happened to me this past saturday and I just wanted to get some of my fellow martial arts pracitioners and masters out there your opinions on this. Do you teach/participate in sparing? Let me explain my reason for bringing this up...

This past saturday I was at my close friends party they had for her 2 year old son (his second birthday) and usually all of our friends go to show support for the kid and have a goodt ime which it was...but towards the end of the night after the kids left and it was just the adults (our friends) hanging out it turned into a normal party. My friend Dan who is very interested in martial arts was asking me about my lessons and what I have been learning and while showing him a "technique" I learned in Bagua (arm/elbow control break) my friend Andy wanted to spar....now heres my thing and maybe im jsut weird but I hate sparring. I really do...even with other true martial artists and sifu's I hate it. Not the "conbat" of it but the fact that it limits you on what you can do. For example I cant go for a eye attack or strike like I have learned in mantis or a kick to the knee/stomach or any of the moves that I have learned and it just seems to turn into a boxing match (not that those arent fun lol) and while sparring with my friend Andy it took great strength and paying attention to NOt hurt him. Im not trying to sound like a tuff guy or anything but he doesnt have any fighting skills, he was just messing around as we were all having a good laugh about it but there were 4 times (in the 5 minute sparring session) that I almost struck his face, eyes, neck and knee more then once...and it just was eye opening to me. Not that I dont know how to defend myself (i have used my martial arts in real life many times to defend myself including whejn I  was working as a bouncer at the strip club so I know how to use the skills I have learned) but it just seems sparring limits what I can actually do. Our sparring turned into a half boxing/jab fest. 

Basically what im saying is...I really dislike sparring and feel as if it limits me on what I know. Anyone else feel this way? Maybe im jsut ignorant to what sparring is suppose to teach you...I dont know. My two teachers havent really brought up sparring but we do practice techniques and drills on our selves and other students in the class.


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## mook jong man (Jun 18, 2012)

Start learning "sticking hands" , then you don't even have to hurt them , not unless you want too of course.
You just stick to them , and use your stance to keep them continually off balance , so they can't hit you.

Technically theres more to it of course , but thats the gist of it.


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## blindsage (Jun 19, 2012)

I really enjoy sparring and I think it's a great learning tool, but I stopped playing around with friends with little training a long time ago.  It's just usually bad news.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2012)

Demo-ing techniques to non martial artists and friends nearly always leads to trouble. Don't let yourself be persuaded to show them anything, if they want to learn they can go to classes themselves. 

I love sparring and fighting is even better!


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## K-man (Jun 19, 2012)

mook jong man said:


> Start learning "sticking hands" , then you don't even have to hurt them , not unless you want too of course.
> You just stick to them , and use your stance to keep them continually off balance , so they can't hit you.
> 
> Technically theres more to it of course , but thats the gist of it.


This is great advice.  In fact this is exactly what I am teaching my three year old grandson who loves to 'play' karate with me.      :asian:


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## seasoned (Jun 19, 2012)

The very last thing you would ever ask my Sensei, was show me. I'm not talking about a teaching moment either. I have been in the position over the years, where the show me has an undertone of "convince me" which, if not nipped in the bud right away, can turn weird. 
In Okinawa, if you ask any of the Sensei, to demo or "show me how that works", there was always an element of realism attached to it.
Early on, techniques were shown to have degrees of application. There was......

Air or no contact:
There was slight contact, lacking penetration:
Then there was that contact that required no explanation:

A part of being a Sensei is to know which of the above 3 needs to be used, and at what times. 

Just a thought..............

(PS) Yes the above does carry over to sparring also. 
(PSS) You get out of sparring what you hope to attain from it.................


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## mograph (Jun 19, 2012)

Those with experience, please tell me if I'm off-base. I think that if a friend wants to spar, and you can't get out of it for whatever reason, have a technique in mind that doesn't hurt him, but discourages him, by not letting him get a grip, by making him lose his balance (then you catch him) ... In other words, gently let him lose interest, hopefully without losing face. Mook's idea sounds good.


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## Cyriacus (Jun 19, 2012)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> now heres my thing and maybe im jsut weird but I hate sparring. I really do...even with other true martial artists and sifu's I hate it. Not the "conbat" of it but the fact that it limits you on what you can do.



Sparring is not Combat. Sparring is Sparring. Its an exercise unto itself with its own pros and cons. And not specifically practicing Eye Gouging and whatnot does not make You incapable of it - Sparring is mostly an exercise in Strategy, Timing, and when it boils down to it, if the ruleset allows, unrelenting force.

That being said, in the context of CMA, most of the time, Sparring doesnt work as well as Drilling. Drilling is, in fact, better than Sparring. Ill concur there. Thing is but... A Boxer can gouge eyes just fine, He doesnt have to train it. But He IS training Boxing. And given the way Boxing works, Sparring is perhaps essential. If You are training a CMA thats oriented around things that dont function in the context of Sparring, then Sparring is unnecessary, unless Youre like Me, and enjoy it for what it is


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## Cyriacus (Jun 19, 2012)

mograph said:


> Those with experience, please tell me if I'm off-base. I think that if a friend wants to spar, and you can't get out of it for whatever reason, have a technique in mind that doesn't hurt him, but discourages him, by not letting him get a grip, by making him lose his balance (then you catch him) ... In other words, gently let him lose interest, hopefully without losing face. Mook's idea sounds good.


Totally missed this.
That could just as easily aggravate someone, rather than discourage them. Mook's idea is good, indeed.
Of course, the other option is to avoid doing it at all, because you can always get out of it. And if they physically attack you in any way, well, i cant in good mind give you advice on that, because youd probably use it.


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## mograph (Jun 19, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Totally missed this.
> That could just as easily aggravate someone, rather than discourage them.


Yes, but it depends on the opponent and what they expect from the sparring. Do they want to show off? Note that I added "without losing face." If you can engage without *his* losing face, where you compliment him on having fought so well that it ends in a draw, then he might not get aggressive, having shown that he can mix it up. Just my opinion -- thanks for pointing out the possible aggression.



Cyriacus said:


> Mook's idea is good, indeed.
> Of course, the other option is to avoid doing it at all, because you can always get out of it.


Yes, that's the best course of action.


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## Cyriacus (Jun 19, 2012)

mograph said:


> Yes, but it depends on the opponent and what they expect from the sparring. Do they want to show off? Note that I added "without losing face." If you can engage without *his* losing face, where you compliment him on having fought so well that it ends in a draw, then he might not get aggressive, having shown that he can mix it up. Just my opinion -- thanks for pointing out the possible aggression.
> 
> Yes, that's the best course of action.


Well, get really good at blocking then.


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## elder999 (Jun 19, 2012)

Here's how I feel about it:






*Spare no one!Scorched earth!Kill them a-*, er, I'm sorry-did you mean "_sparring_?"

Never mind. :lol:


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## oaktree (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi ihe4e12345,
There does exist drills in the Baguazhang it is called "dueling"  Your teacher can give you more details concerning it. 
 I personally do not think friendly sparring with strangers is a good thing or even against untrained friends in a way it is like a child handling a loaded gun and shows a friend nothing of value comes from it.

I do think engagement with trained martial artist in a training area does have value and calling it sparring, drilling, dueling, techniques, pressure testing what ever as long as there is some sort of response between two trained individuals than its good.


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## ks - learning to fly (Jun 19, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Demo-ing techniques to non martial artists and friends nearly always leads to trouble. Don't let yourself be persuaded to show them anything, if they want to learn they can go to classes themselves.



To expand on this - those in my dojang aren't allowed to demonstrate - sparring or otherwise - without permission from our instructor...if they are that interested they need to learn in a classroom environment...that being said, I love sparring and am learning more every day!


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## mograph (Jun 19, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Well, get really good at blocking then.


Actually, I just tell people I do Tai Chi. They make some jokes, and we move on.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2012)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> Basically what im saying is...I really dislike sparring and feel as if it limits me on what I know. Anyone else feel this way? Maybe im jsut ignorant to what sparring is suppose to teach you...I dont know. My two teachers havent really brought up sparring but we do practice techniques and drills on our selves and other students in the class.




I like sparring and the last time I did any real sparring was against my Xingyi sifu&#8230; and I lost&#8230;but it was mighty cool. But then way back when I posted that on MT I got called a genuine, &#8220;certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac&#8221; (thanks exile) so take this for what it is worth

Sparring is cool as are drills when done right and but sparring gives you less chance to follow a set pattern, and as much as I dislike the term, it is a bit of pressure testing and it will give you a better idea as to how you will repond when you are actually hit. All of wwhich in my opinion is a good thing.


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## ilhe4e12345 (Jun 19, 2012)

I dont usually spar with friends....like i said it just kind of happened. I ran circles around him (hes a big guy) and i wasnt doing it to show off to them, it just kind of happened....lol. I have done sparring in the past with a good friend whom I use to be a bouncer with. He has been training in TKD for many years (10 years or so) and we would really spar...not the play fighting that i was doing with my friends. 

I just never really liked it....I do like doing sticky hands exercises and drills....i enjoy drills and sticky hands over sparring....maybe im just not a "fighter" as much as i would like to be...? lol no idea....like i said i have been in many fights (bouncing) and also broke up a few in bars as well and was able to defend myself by using what I have learned. I just really dont like sparring....no idea i guess i always end up turning it into a jab fest and feels more like boxing. I have sparred with my sifu's in the past (not my bagua sifu, but he has talked about dueling later on in my progress) my mantis sifu we have sparred before but not often.

Who knows...maybe ill get use to it...I dont "practice" with my none martial arts friends...they just sometimes ask me about things and ill show them something here or there or they might pick on me till i lock their elbow or shoulder and put them down..then theres laughs and smile 

appreciate the words of wisdom from everyone here guys, im glad I posted this. I still personally have issues with sparring but then again im still learning so maybe ill open up more to it as the time passes by 

happy training


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## ilhe4e12345 (Jun 19, 2012)

oaktree said:


> Hi ihe4e12345,
> There does exist drills in the Baguazhang it is called "dueling"  Your teacher can give you more details concerning it.
> I personally do not think friendly sparring with strangers is a good thing or even against untrained friends in a way it is like a child handling a loaded gun and shows a friend nothing of value comes from it.
> 
> I do think engagement with trained martial artist in a training area does have value and calling it sparring, drilling, dueling, techniques, pressure testing what ever as long as there is some sort of response between two trained individuals than its good.



Yes Rick has brought this up a few times and he said we will be going over it but once i a little more knowledge under my belt. I only see him once a month and he really gives me a lot of stuff to study and practice and it has come up once or twice. 

I enjoy drills and practicing techniques with other martial artists, i always have i guess just sparring seems...limiting to me. I might just be ignorant on it (as i have stated before lol) but it just doesnt seem like its for me. Blah....ill get over it 

thank you for the words my Bagua brother,

happy trainin,


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## JamesGarr (Jul 14, 2012)

I am a beginner at lai tung pai kung fu and have only sparred once, but I had the privilege of attending a class with a very experienced sifu who taught us why sparring can be very dangerous.  He taught us that when sparring, the most experienced martial artist is most likely to be hurt by a beginner, because the beginner cannot control themselves. Therefore, to mitigate the risk of injury, we slow sparring down based on skill level.

His method was to specify levels for us to spar at.  When a beginner is sparring, both participants are at "level one",  and demonstrated that at "level one" we should both move very slowly, with a siheng or sifu observing.  Level two and three are just progressively faster, but still slower than full contact.  When one of us started moving too fast, which inevitably happened, the observer would tell us to break, and we would start again.  When I say slow, I mean very slow.  We didn't need protective gear, punches and kicks were mere touches at level one.  More experienced students were allowed to spar at higher levels since they had more control.

It was a fantastic class and I learned a great deal in a short amount of time.  I dreaded sparring until I did it; now I love it.  

Sparring is certainly more limiting than real combat, just as drills and forms and practicing on a mook jong are more limited than sparring, but I see value in all these methods.  Everything fits together like a puzzle.


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