# Does this make me a bad person?



## KempoGuy06 (Dec 3, 2007)

Last week a 20yr old girl swerved in front of a semi while drunk. The semi swerved to miss her and collided with those steel supports that hold up interstate signs, the sign fell and cut the cab in half killing the man lying in the back. The girl is being charged with murder or whatever charge she will face and rightfully so. The point of this thread is that that was somebodys father, grandfater, nephew, uncle, brother, son, best friend or husban (in fact his wife was driving the rig at the time). I wouldnt be able to keep my calm if this happened to a family member or friend of mine. I would snap, I would want to harm the person that ripped the loved one from my life (like the court video or the guys beating on the handcuffed guy who was being charged with murder). The person doing the beating would be me.

Does this make me a bad person? 

B


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2007)

Quick question so I can understand the post, sorry. What's a semi?


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## MA-Caver (Dec 3, 2007)

Vengence should be best left to the law. But then vengence isn't rationally or logically motivated and thus vengance in the hands of the law becomes justice which is (supposedly) rational and logical. 
That the girl was drunk is irresponsible but I think upon sobering up when she realizes that she via her actions killed someone would be punishment enough to her. 
When my mother was still pregnant with me (about 7-8 months) a drunk driver swerved into my family's car and while fortunate no-one was killed the driver later, upon hearing that he hit a car with a pregnant woman in it... killed himself in jail. Was that justice? It certainly was guilt driven. 

That you want to inflict your own brand of justice make you a bad person? No, I don't think so. You're human and you have feelings just like everyone else. Just like the person who took your loved one away from you. How each of us *feels* towards a circumstance doesn't determine whether if we are good or bad. How they *act* upon their feelings makes that determination.

IMO


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## arnisador (Dec 3, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Quick question so I can understand the post, sorry. What's a semi?



An 18-wheel truck of the large kind used for interstate transport of merchandise. It's called a semi-trailer truck; I think you say _articulated lorry_, or "artic" for short?

I certainly hope the drunk driver is at least convicted of mansluaghter. What a sad story. In saving her life, he inadvertently lost another.


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## theletch1 (Dec 3, 2007)

No, it doesn't make you a bad person at all.  I'd feel the same way in that situation.  Drinking and driving is the same, in my book, as pointing a loaded weapon at someone.

Tez, a semi is short for Semi-trailer.  It's an 18 wheeler (what I drive for a living) that includes a powered unit with 10 wheels and a trailer with 8.  The one I drive is just over 20 meters long.


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## jks9199 (Dec 3, 2007)

No -- you're not a bad person.

I've got no sympathy for people who cause deaths like this by being irresponsible and driving drunk.  The girl who was driving deserves everything the law decides to throw at her.

With that said -- I hope you never have to find out, but you just might surprise yourself.  In my experience, people's deepest beliefs are what come out in moments like that.


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## Tez3 (Dec 3, 2007)

Wow that's a serious vehicle to be messing with, I suppose 'only' one dead can be considered lucky really. It could have wiped out so many more.
The law dealing with drunk drivers over here is a mockery, if that happened here the girl would only spend a couple of years in prison while for the victims family it is a life sentence. I can understand that many would want to take the law into their own hands in that case however if charged with murder and an appropriate sentence was handed down I think most people could reconcile themselves to that.
I don't think it makes you a bad person wanting to take revenge, it makes you a better person though if you can rise above that and abide by the sentence the court hands out as long as it's one that is commensurate with the crime.


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## CoryKS (Dec 3, 2007)

If wanting to beat someone down for killing a person through stupidity makes you a bad person, well, join the club.



> AP-Independence, MO
> February 23, 2000
> BOY DRAGGED TO DEATH DURING CARJACK
> INDEPENDENCE, Mo. (AP) - As 6-year-old Jake Robel waited in the car while his mother dashed into a sandwich shop, a thief jumped behind the wheel and tried to shove the boy outside.
> ...


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## Steel Tiger (Dec 3, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Last week a 20yr old girl swerved in front of a semi while drunk. The semi swerved to miss her and collided with those steel supports that hold up interstate signs, the sign fell and cut the cab in half killing the man lying in the back. The girl is being charged with murder or whatever charge she will face and rightfully so. The point of this thread is that that was somebodys father, grandfater, nephew, uncle, brother, son, best friend or husban (in fact his wife was driving the rig at the time). I wouldnt be able to keep my calm if this happened to a family member or friend of mine. I would snap, I would want to harm the person that ripped the loved one from my life (like the court video or the guys beating on the handcuffed guy who was being charged with murder). The person doing the beating would be me.
> 
> Does this make me a bad person?
> 
> B


 
The thought, the desire, does not in and of itself make you a bad person.  There is a significant difference between the thought and the action in this situation.  I am sure that we all have similar thoughts, but it is how we act that will separate us from the unthinking, uncaring people who commit these acts.  We have chosen to live within the laws of our society and we should, then, allow those laws to speak for the dead and aportion justice.

Even so, the sometimes seems inadequate to the tasks we ask of it.  As Tez pointed out the laws on driving while intoxicated don't seem to be harsh enough at times.  Here, in Australia, the woman in the situation would have been charged with drinking while under the influence and reckless driving occasioning death.  This last charge carries a ten year sentence.  Is it enough?  I don't know.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 3, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Does this make me a bad person?


 
No, it makes you human

But in going after the person who are you actually hurting? What would your family have to deal with when you went to jail for your response to this persons extreme stupidity or malice. And could you live with it when all was said and done?


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 3, 2007)

Hard question for me to answer.  We each have a code we live by and mine may be far from what others have. 
I know that if someone deliberately hurts a member of my family that has certain consequences. A drunk or someone stoned out of their mind might elicit a different response but I doubt it.
I can not say you are a bad person for such thought nor can I say that anyone disagreeing with your thought is a good person.
The law has one view of thing often individuals may not wait for the law but do what they feel is just and needed


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## bydand (Dec 3, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Vengence should be best left to the law. But then vengence isn't rationally or logically motivated and thus vengance in the hands of the law becomes justice which is (supposedly) rational and logical.
> That the girl was drunk is irresponsible but I think upon sobering up when she realizes that she via her actions killed someone would be punishment enough to her.
> When my mother was still pregnant with me (about 7-8 months) a drunk driver swerved into my family's car and while fortunate no-one was killed the driver later, upon hearing that he hit a car with a pregnant woman in it... killed himself in jail. Was that justice? It certainly was guilt driven.
> 
> ...



Wanted to rep you for this, but it won't let me.  Very well said.


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## Tames D (Dec 3, 2007)

This is an ironic thread. Yesterday was the most horrific day in my life. The comments everyone has made has actually helped *me* in that I am struggling with the same emotions the OP is mentioning. Drunk driving, good friend. What a waste! Been doing everything I can to take my mind off it.


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## Kacey (Dec 3, 2007)

Meanwhile, it's highly likely that the drunken girl is thinking that it's not her fault - or certainly, her lawyer will be attempting to prove that she is only responsible for DUI, and not for the outcome her drunken driven caused - and while it appears to me to be a pretty clear case of manslaughter, I'm not sure the punishment for manslaughter is sufficient; certainly, I doubt the man's wife thinks so. 

As far as the 6 year-old boy - I have long believed that punishments, especially capital punishments, should fit crimes - if more murderers were put to death the way they killed their victims, and in a timely fashion, we might have rather fewer murders.


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## dart68 (Dec 3, 2007)

If that makes you a bad person then I may venture to say that we're all bad people.  I understand how you would _feel_ but would you actually beat the person in the handcuffs?  I know it would be hard for me not to if I had the chance.

On a related subject, I seriously doubt that the murder charges will stick since I think the definition of murder is an action with malace of forethought.  I believe she is guilty of criminally negligent homicide.


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 4, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. This has helped me a lot. Ive always had anger issues and no outlets to vent that anger. In trying to avoid sounding cliche (sp?) my training has helped me to vent my anger and to get it under control. For ex: When sparring, if im dealing with my anger I might slip up on control and go a little to hard, with a lower rank this is bad for them for obvious reasons, but for a higher rank this is bad for me, they might feel that I want to step up the speed so they will go a little harder. Needless to say Im caught of gaurd and learn that my blind rage will not help me in any situation.

It also brings up another thought as well, not related to some one being killed. As ashamed as I am to admit it some one in my family (way down the line like 3rd or 4th cousin) is a convicted sex offender and is currently serving his sentence in a Florida state prison. While I wont go into specifics of the case, what would you do if a some one you know had a kid that was targeted by one of these people? Or if it was your kid? 

B


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## Tez3 (Dec 4, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. This has helped me a lot. Ive always had anger issues and no outlets to vent that anger. In trying to avoid sounding cliche (sp?) my training has helped me to vent my anger and to get it under control. For ex: When sparring, if im dealing with my anger I might slip up on control and go a little to hard, with a lower rank this is bad for them for obvious reasons, but for a higher rank this is bad for me, they might feel that I want to step up the speed so they will go a little harder. Needless to say Im caught of gaurd and learn that my blind rage will not help me in any situation.
> 
> It also brings up another thought as well, not related to some one being killed. _As ashamed as I am to admit it some one in my family (way down the line like 3rd or 4th cousin) is a convicted sex offender and is currently serving his sentence in a Florida state prison._ While I wont go into specifics of the case, what would you do if a some one you know had a kid that was targeted by one of these people? Or if it was your kid?
> 
> B


 
Can I say first that *you *have nothing to be ashamed of? We are each responsible for our own actions and your relative  close or not  is the only one repsonsible.
The first thing I would do is contact the appropriate authorities either the police or the NSPCC here for advice, they hopefully would deal with the situation. thats' the cold logical part of me thinking and giving the proper advice. The emotional part of me would want to tear them limb from limb to be honest. I think though common sense would probably stop me as I wouldn't want to cause the child any more distress, however I have several close friends who wouldn't be as 'ethical' if thats the word and I can guarentee they would beat the living daylights out of the person who did it. It may not be 'right' but it's what they would do. They have their own code of justice.


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 4, 2007)

Thats a good response. Right or not this is a totally different situation, when you are involving a helpless child. As of right *now* I would like to say I would be rational as well but if the situation were to ever arise I believe that all rational thinking would go out the door. Its a scary situation to think about all around but with the sickos in our world it is something that can not be pushed aside as impossible.

B


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## jks9199 (Dec 4, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> It also brings up another thought as well, not related to some one being killed. As ashamed as I am to admit it some one in my family (way down the line like 3rd or 4th cousin) is a convicted sex offender and is currently serving his sentence in a Florida state prison. While I wont go into specifics of the case, what would you do if a some one you know had a kid that was targeted by one of these people? Or if it was your kid?
> 
> B


 
Well... One part of me says take him somewhere, get him seriously trashed, and tattoo "Short Eyes" on his forehead, stomach, and back.  Then find some simple, stupid charge to get him locked up on.  Problem would resolve itself, permanently.  Quickly.    After all, there's no need for me to get his blood on my hands directly, right?

However, the more reasonable and rational part takes a saner approach, scaled to the behavior.  If it's targetting, but not actually done anything yet, start the reports and records, and make it crystal clear that I'm aware, and watching.  And educate the kid so that they don't become a target.  If it's gone further, the gloves go off.  And I'll do anything and everything I can to lock the monster up.  Forever.  But, if it's "just a family member", I'm going to make sure he never has an opportunity to victimize any child I know or that's entrusted to my care.  He won't be alone with my kids, etc.  And they won't communicate with him without my being involved in the communication.

Sexual offenders, especially those who prey on children, don't change.  It's how they're wired.  Since we can't fix them, we have to incapacitate them somehow.  That means either watch their asses and never give them a chance to offend again, or lock them away where they can't.  (Capital punishment is a different topic.)  And we have to -- we ABSOLUTELY MUST -- educate kids so that they aren't easy prey.  And parents have to educate themselves on the various social networking sites and know what they're kids are doing when they're on-line.


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## CoryKS (Dec 4, 2007)

*jsk9199*:  What is "Short Eyes"?  Euphemism for pervert?


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## Tez3 (Dec 4, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> *jsk9199*: What is "Short Eyes"? Euphemism for pervert?


I was wondering that! It would be 'nonce' here.


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## Kreth (Dec 4, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> While I wont go into specifics of the case, what would you do if a some one you know had a kid that was targeted by one of these people? Or if it was your kid?


I would no doubt be convicted of a very sadistic homicide.


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## jks9199 (Dec 4, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> *jsk9199*: What is "Short Eyes"? Euphemism for pervert?


 


Tez3 said:


> I was wondering that! It would be 'nonce' here.


 
It's a slang term for pedophile, not just any pervert.

(And, yes, frighteningly enough there are many types of perverts...  and some of them aren't at all unwelcome in prisons.)


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## Live True (Dec 4, 2007)

hmmmmm... I was going to respond in agreement with MACaver, as I lost my mother to a drunk driver, and he also committed suicide afterwards due to guilt (he killed my mom in her car, put her boyfriend in a back brace for several months, and killed two people in his own car).  I was 16 at the time, so I can speak well to the lasting impact such a sudden death can have.  While I have little sympathy for those who drink and drive, I actually get angry at their stupidity, thoughtlessness, etc., and I realize (at least now, many years after the fact) that the person driving the car may have only a physical resemblance to the person they normally are.  Their own guilt should provide more than enough punishment and destruction for them, and if they feel no guilt...then may they be cursed with thier own personal legion of tormenting demons...my hands are clean.

Those were my thoughts until the subject of a child sex offender was mentioned...that's a whole different ball game.  First, KempoGuy...no guilt or shame belongs to you.  We are responsible for our own actions, and that is hard enough, some days.  We can have some influence on others, but thier actions are still their own, as are the consequences.

The difference here is that, those on the road know that driving is dangerous; we know that poor drivers, drunk drivers, car malfunctions, and random furry critters will cause accidents somewhere and often.  It's an accepted risk of driving.  

Children, in general, do NOT know about the dangers of a child predator.  Even those that are properly trained to not let folks touch them, take them to private places, make them keep secrets, etc.; they don't expect this to happen to them or someone they know. It's not an accepted risk of childhood!:angry::flammad:

Children and many animals are innocents, meant to be protected, not abused.  They are meant to be nurtured and instructed, not used for private jollies. Someone who abuses a child, whether it be physically, sexually, or mentally....should not be left alone in a room with me.  I am not a generally violent person, but I would not trust myself in such a situation.  So, if someone I knew had a kid that was targeted, then I would want to help them and the kid recover some sense of self, safety, and personal power.  If that person were the one that did the targeting?  They should move very very far away...alone....in a miserable, rotting, infested hut...with nothing but thier demons...oh, and lots and lots of pain and fear.

I can't print my full thoughts on this.  I can't be reasonable on this topic.  So, does that make me a bad person?  No.  It makes me human and simply triggers that primative maternal rage inside me.


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## Cirdan (Dec 5, 2007)

No, it does not make you a bad person. I would want to cut that person`s head off, cleanly. If we lived in a less civilized society I would probably try to as well. Drunken drivers are all playing with the lives of others.


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## punisher73 (Dec 5, 2007)

Short answer....."NO!"

We are given our emotions for a reason.  Whether you believe we have them from a divine source as part of our creation, or you believe that they have evolved, it comes to the same conclusion.  We have emotions for a reason (else they would have been elminated through natural selection or we wouldn't have been given them).

Anger is a tricky emotion.  Many times (especially with a religious upbringing) we are led to believe that being angry at someone is wrong or it is a character flaw.  "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth" is a saying from the Sermon on the Mount attributed to Jesus.  Our definition of meek is something akin to being timid and softspoken etc.  The greek meaning of the word is more along the lines of someone with a righteous anger, someone who knows when it is proper to be angry, and just doesn't lose their temper or fly off the handle about trivial things.

An example of this is in the temple when Jesus drove out the money changers who were trying to make money off of people (I use this example not as a religious example, but as a cultural example of the quality they were talking about).  It made Jesus angry and he took action to correct the problem, he didn't ignore it or become a doormat and allow people to be taken advantage of.

Therefore, ANGER, helps us and motivates us to act upon wrong doing to protect ourselves and what we hold dear to us.  Like all things, we can also misuse the emotion or misapply it.  But, to feel anger and want to see justice done against that wrongdoing does not make you bad, it makes you human, and a human that wants to see people be held accountable for what they do when they wrongfully take something away from someone.


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