# What's the problem with boxing?



## mrhnau (Apr 15, 2007)

I noticed today that Valuev lost his heavyweight title this weekend to Chagaev. The problem is, I have no clue who those guys are! I looked a bit, and I realized I had heard of Valuev, simply because he was so huge (and hairy!). I seem to recall a thread here on MT about him. So, I went and looked at all of the current champions. I realized I don't know hardly ANY of them! I used to know them all... well, at least the major ones. Can't honestly say I've known many straw-weight champs 

Got me wondering. It seems the world of boxing has changed. Its no longer that popular of a spectator sport. Why do you think that is? What do you think can be done to change things? Should boxing fade out and MMA type events replace them?

I think part of the problem is that boxing used to be filled with charasmatic fighters, people you enjoyed watching. Ali, Tyson, De La Hoya... dynamic personalities with superb fighting skills. Now, I can't even pronounce half of the fighters names, and its hard to present an "ali-esque" rant/personality to an American audience if you can't even speak english. With the possible exception of Trinidad, its hard to find non-english speakers that gain popularity in the US.

I think another part of the problem is the pay-per-view scheme... used to be the major fights were on public TV and easy to find. Now, you need to pay $50+ to see Tyson fight, and I've seen a few major prices for minor fighters (well, at least I don't even know their names). You have Friday Night Fights, but more often than not, its filled with journeymen and potential stars. You won't see a Tyson, De La Hoya show up. You -might- get an obscure belt or two or fallen champ, but thats about the extent of it. Even Stallones foray into reality TV with the Contender did not seem to create that much of a spark..

I dunno... whats the answer? Is boxing doomed to obscurity in the face of MMA? Can it be resurrected?

On a side note, isn't it strange that ESPN has boxing listed, but no other real martial events like UFC, K1, ISKA? Heck, they even have Little League and Horse Racing... Boxing has been relegated to one of those "more" sports LOL...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 15, 2007)

Well MMA is doing it right at this point by having good fight's on Cable and then having PPV fights.  Plus let's face it that MMA is more exciting as an overall spectator sport.  Boxing used to be the king and everyone thought boxers were the baddest people in the world.  Ask your average person on the street now and they will invariably pick a MMA guy over a boxer almost all the time.  So boxing is being hit from two fronts in that MMA is rising in popularity and boxing has relegated itself to pay per view over the years and diminished it's audience.


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## tellner (Apr 15, 2007)

Second what Brian said. Frankly, MMA is much more interesting to watch. My wife says that it's also more fun to see nearly naked men beating the hell out of each other and rolling around on the ground. I don't know what she's talking about 

There are also a few other things to think about...

The sleaze in boxing is legendary. Insanely greedy promoters, the fixes, fighters ducking title fights, connections with organized crime, and we won't even talk about the nasty para-sexual theater that is most women's boxing (to the frustration of the many serious female boxers). MMA has been much better organized and has steered clear of most of this. The fact that there isn't the huge money helps a bit. Fighters are better taken care of. 

Most of all, boxing killed the goose that laid the golden egg. MMA embraced new media, cable, and the Internet. Boxing tried to make it ever more difficult and expensive to see boxing. 

Boxing is dying as a spectator sport. I see MMA on an upward curve that isn't going to flatten for quite a while.


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## mrhnau (Apr 15, 2007)

Boy, talk about timing 

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2838341



			
				Don King
Promoter Don King wants to restore the magic of heavyweight boxing through a series of fights that will crown one undisputed world champion said:
			
		

> I think the title should be unified. To have one undisputed, identifiable world champion would make everything better," King told Reuters in an exclusive interview.
> 
> "It would restore the magic," he said.


It might help a little bit... it gets tiring trying to keep track of 4 belts. Consolidate! Get rid of the minor ones, so having a belt actually means something!


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## INDYFIGHTER (Apr 16, 2007)

Boxing is still my favorite sport to watch.  I'm glued to the t.v. anytime a match is on.  I love to watch the others too but boxing for me is timeless.  I see alot of bad fights and I see even more questionable decisions but sometimes you get to see two guys really giving it their all and that's when you get to see a great fight.  Twelve three minute rounds is nothing short of running a marathon and I have alot of respect for most pro-boxers.  I was happy to see Valuve get beat this weekend.  His size had covered up his shotty boxing skills.  Don't really know the guy that beat him but he boxed a good match and earned the win.  
I agree that boxing needs some help but shows like the Contender are helping bring up fighter awareness and maybe someday we'll have a U.S. heavyweight we can all get behind again.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 16, 2007)

tellner said:


> Second what Brian said. Frankly, MMA is much more interesting to watch. My wife says that it's also more fun to see nearly naked men beating the hell out of each other and rolling around on the ground. I don't know what she's talking about
> 
> There are also a few other things to think about...
> 
> ...


Exactly! its so corrupt, no one cares anymore.
Sean


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 16, 2007)

tellner said:


> Second what Brian said. Frankly, MMA is much more interesting to watch. My wife says that it's also more fun to see nearly naked men beating the hell out of each other and rolling around on the ground. I don't know what she's talking about
> 
> There are also a few other things to think about...
> 
> ...


 
A significant patch could be done to boxing's image by just getting rid of Don King.  If ever there was a personification of corruption and greed it is this man.


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## jks9199 (Apr 16, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> A significant patch could be done to boxing's image by just getting rid of Don King.  If ever there was a personification of corruption and greed it is this man.


The only thing straight about Don King is his hair... 

I swear the man must jaywalk on principle!

One of his most "impressive" stunts was fighting so hard to get Tyson the title back after Buster Douglas beat him.  One little detail...  BOTH fighters were managed by King, as I understand it.  So King still had the champ...  But Tyson was the better box office draw...


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 17, 2007)

Sometimes I talk with my dad about boxing.  When he was younger, he was able to go to a fight night and see a pretty good card, not necessarily top fighters, but good nonetheless.  It was a few notches above grass roots so some real talent was beginning to show.

This is the sort of thing that boxing has really lost.  It was, and still is, a sport that allows the poor in society to make good in some way, by putting in the time and effort.  But what do we see if we can afford to watch a championship bout?  Either two extremely wealthy men dancing around to earn another handful of millions each or a complete unknown and an extremely wealthy man dancing around to earn a handful of millions.  The top end of boxing is so letting down the rest it is beyond a joke.


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## Brother John (Apr 17, 2007)

they took boxing off of prime time television, away from the networks.
They've made it 'pay per view' or at least on HBO.

The common man can't get to it. No "Common man".....specialize audience, can't DRAW new fans...can't gain momentum.

I think that has something to do with it.

Your Brother
John


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## Freestyler777 (Apr 23, 2007)

I think commercialism ruins every sport.  Look at how Catch Wrestling became the cruel farce known as professional wrestling.  Boxing is corrupt from the inside out, and let's just hope the same thing doesn't happen to MMA in the future!


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## Em MacIntosh (Apr 23, 2007)

It seems to me to be going the way of karate.  Kyokushinkai has done a lot to save karate with it's emphasis on full contact .  Maybe the gloves need to come off and we need to see the bare'old fistacuffs and the 'square' again.  I don't think there's a whole lotta point in keeping gloves on to minimise injury when there's people risking everything they got ending up with a couple career ending elbows to the head.  MMA is much more all or nothing.  In boxing, even a bad boxer might just get a beating.  In MMA, I think a bad fighter will get his head crushed.  Sometimes it only takes one.  The damage a well trained naked fist can do might bring some of that back to boxing.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Apr 23, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> It seems to me to be going the way of karate. Kyokushinkai has done a lot to save karate with it's emphasis on full contact . Maybe the gloves need to come off and we need to see the bare'old fistacuffs and the 'square' again. I don't think there's a whole lotta point in keeping gloves on to minimise injury when there's people risking everything they got ending up with a couple career ending elbows to the head. MMA is much more all or nothing. In boxing, even a bad boxer might just get a beating. In MMA, I think a bad fighter will get his head crushed. Sometimes it only takes one. The damage a well trained naked fist can do might bring some of that back to boxing.


 

You've never broke your hand.  If you boxed without gloves the average man would not last very long.  

Mixed matial art has it's place just like boxing.  I hear people say that they don't like it or kickboxing because they stop the action when one person falls down.  They're different sports with different rules intended for different athletes.  It's like saying I don't like basketball because they don't tackle.


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## Jonathan (Apr 24, 2007)

INDYFIGHTER said:


> You've never broke your hand. If you boxed without gloves the average man would not last very long.


 
Yeah, that's a point a lot of folks miss- the gloves aren't there to protect your opponent's head.  They're there to protect your hands!


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