# Mel vs. Roman



## billc (Dec 5, 2010)

Mel Gibson's career is in the tank because of his alcohol fueled, hate filled rants.  However, many actors and actresses not only defended, but will still work with director Roman Polanski, a man who drugged and then sexually assaulted a 13 year old girl.  I think Mel Gibson needs to get treatment and help with his various problems.  I guess I have to ask, why would anyone give Roman Polanski the time of day?  I bring up this topic because Mel Gibson has a new movie coming out and he was recently kept out of the new movie "hangover 2."  How many actors from hangover 2 would still work with Polanski?


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## yorkshirelad (Dec 7, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Mel Gibson's career is in the tank because of his alcohol fueled, hate filled rants. However, many actors and actresses not only defended, but will still work with director Roman Polanski, a man who drugged and then sexually assaulted a 13 year old girl. I think Mel Gibson needs to get treatment and help with his various problems. I guess I have to ask, why would anyone give Roman Polanski the time of day? I bring up this topic because Mel Gibson has a new movie coming out and he was recently kept out of the new movie "hangover 2." How many actors from hangover 2 would still work with Polanski?


Mel Gibson struck his girlfriend/wife while she was holding his child and later condoned his actions because she was "bleeding him dry". He's a scumbag pure and simple. He made untold millions from his career and now that bhis career is dead, if he doesn't have any save for his "retirement", then who cares?

Roman Polanski is a rapist...a CHILD RAPIST, pure and simple. The ectors who have rallied around him are scumbags also, the likes of Pierce Brosnan, Bebra Wonger and the rest and pure filth. 

This situation just goes to show you that Hollywood circles are full of hypocrisy and malevolance. Gibson should be treted just like any other wife beating drunkan thug and thrown in jail. Polanski, should be locked up in federal prison and the key thrown away!


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## billc (Dec 7, 2010)

I'll second that.  Although, with treatment, and a lot of work, I think Mel can get better.  That alcohol is a terrible thing.  I also think that rape should recieve a life sentence.  the odds of a sexual predator re-offending are way too high to let them loose on society.


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## crushing (Dec 7, 2010)

How do you know Gibson's "rants" were alcohol fueled?  Prescription drugs can have similar effects and the anti-smoking drug Chantix has been known to cause people to go off the deep end, so to speak.  One of the comments he made during one of this rants was that she was going to "make him start smoking again".

This conversation came up at the local VFW, and the bartender mentioned her husband was on Chantix and he got extremely mean while taking it.  She told him she would rather he smoke than to put up with his craziness while taking the medication.

Anyway, I first heard of the Chantix possibility on a podcast called No Agenda.  I think some of the things they cover are kind of out there, and they get some facts wrong occasionally, but it is an interesting show nonetheless.


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## billc (Dec 7, 2010)

It could have been drug fueled or drug and alcohol fueled.  Alcohol came to my mind because of his rant against the police when he left that bar when he had finished working on Apocalypto.  Mel needs some real help regardless.  I hope he gets some, I have enjoyed his work but there is no excuse for doing the things he did.


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## bluewaveschool (Dec 7, 2010)

what was a 13yr old doing there anyways?  and did he know she was 13?  and what was the legal age in the state at that time?


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## billc (Dec 7, 2010)

You would need to look up the details, to get an accurate description of the events.  When the court battle over deportation began last year I read some about it at Bighollywood.com.  From what I remember, the 13 year old was the daughter of a prostitute that Jack Nicholson hired.  When he went upstairs with her, Polanski was left downstairs with the girl.  He forced her to drink wine and take some pills and then tried to perform various acts on her in a hot tub.  She told him no, he didn't stop.  That is what I recall.  You can find out more from the court record.  He was convicted and before he was sentenced he fled the country.  They tried to get him back here last year.  This all happened a couple years after polanski's wife, Sharon Tate was killed by the Manson family.  I'm not excusing  him here, just putting it near the right decade.  I believe he did know she was 13.  Polanski has been accused by other actresses, in Europe, of various forced activity.


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## granfire (Dec 7, 2010)

yeah, Roman Polanski has the reputation of liking them young....


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## Big Don (Dec 7, 2010)

Gibson, said bad things, acted like an ***.
Polanski, drugged and raped a thirteen year old.
That Gibson is pilloried and Polanski hailed, really says something, and it isn't something good.


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## granfire (Dec 7, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Gibson, said bad things, acted like an ***.
> Polanski, drugged and raped a thirteen year old.
> That Gibson is pilloried and Polanski hailed, really says something, and it isn't something good.



Well, people acting like jackasses afflict everybody around them.
And most people are not 13 yo girls...


FWIW, I don't recall a Polanski film that I cared for. I think he directed a somewhat funny Vampire parody once...


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## Nomad (Dec 8, 2010)

They're both scum (by their actions).

I don't see that we should forgive Mel his transgressions based on the fact that someone else has committed a more serious crime.  

That so many (especially the Hollywood crowd) have overlooked or pardoned Polanski for this only speaks to their own hypocrisy.

MJ was, IMO, treated similarly; a little hush money (okay, actually a *LOT* of hush money) and all the kids he'd almost certainly abused over the years got swept under the carpet and everyone gushes about what an amazing artist he was.  Personally, I don't buy it, even though (unlike Polanski) he was never convicted.


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## crushing (Dec 8, 2010)

Nomad said:


> MJ was, IMO, treated similarly; a little hush money (okay, actually a *LOT* of hush money) and all the kids he'd almost certainly abused over the years got swept under the carpet and everyone gushes about what an amazing artist he was. Personally, I don't buy it, even though (unlike Polanski) he was never convicted.


 
What you call "hush money" most people call a "shakedown".  Martin Bashir's hackjob interviews with him made it easier to get money out of him, and we only found out later that the interview video was edited in a way to make Jackson out to be bad.  Jackson's biggest problems was that he was eccentric and trusted the wrong people.  Because of this and him being worth more dead than alive (especially to others), many people think he suffered the ultimate shakedown.


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## granfire (Dec 8, 2010)

crushing said:


> What you call "hush money" most people call a "shakedown".  Martin Bashir's hackjob interviews with him made it easier to get money out of him, and we only found out later that the interview video was edited in a way to make Jackson out to be bad.  Jackson's biggest problems was that he was eccentric and trusted the wrong people.  Because of this and him being worth more dead than alive (especially to others), many people think he suffered the ultimate shakedown.




I did not see the interview. I am not even mildly interested in the MJ story.
But for what it counts somebody interested in these sort of things (survivor of child abuse and rape) and doing research on her own said his actions were picture perfect predator behavior. But then again, there was a lot wrong in the situation...


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## Empty Hands (Dec 8, 2010)

What makes everyone think Mel is a pariah?  Sure, the guys from Hangover 2 didn't want to work with him, but that hasn't stopped all the rest of the people involved with Mel's movies before, during, and after his breakdowns from working with him.  He has a movie coming out soon, The Beaver, with Jodie Foster.  Seems like ol' Mel still has plenty of friends.

As for Roman, it's another manifestation of the errors of thinking surrounding despicable people who produce great works.  Most people cannot easily reconcile a Great Artist with an Awful Scumbag, we tend to not be able to compartmentalize people, they are either all bad or all good.  If they produce something Good, the rest of them must be Good too.  If they are Bad, they must only produce Bad things.  You see it in politics and other arenas constantly.  So with Roman his admittedly great movies must mean he's a good guy, hence the poor thinking we see.

Of course, ****** People who produce Great Works is actually pretty common.  Ezra Pound was a poet of profound influence, and also a Nazi sympathizer and collaborator.


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## yorkshirelad (Dec 8, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Gibson, said bad things, acted like an ***.
> Polanski, drugged and raped a thirteen year old.
> That Gibson is pilloried and Polanski hailed, really says something, and it isn't something good.


 
Gibson punched his girlfriend in the face when she was carrying jis child. He then told her she deserved it in one of his telephone rants, he and Polanski are scumbags!


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## Archangel M (Dec 8, 2010)

They ARE both scumbags. But why the "Polanski love" by some in Tinseltown?

Then again why do people wear "Free Mumia" shirts??


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## billc (Dec 8, 2010)

Here's another one, why do people wear Che t-shirts?


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## granfire (Dec 8, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Here's another one, why do people wear Che t-shirts?



he like, did stuff....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

Interesting guy actually....


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## Ken Morgan (Dec 8, 2010)

granfire said:


> he like, did stuff....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara
> 
> Interesting guy actually....


 
Still was a terrorist and murderer.


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## granfire (Dec 8, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Still was a terrorist and murderer.



I suppose - like so many points in history - it's a matter of perspective: the winners decide the story their history tells. I am sure many glorified men in history were in a similar situation.

But interestingly enough, I was just musing about how people who sat out to see the world seem to champion the underdog, the unwashed masses...
In any case, history is written by those who place a marginal value on human life...no matter the side.
EDIT: there are a few laudable exceptions, like Ghandi, but even his story is drenched in blood...

(also interesting is in itself of little value, it's just that it's  - well - interesting)


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## Big Don (Dec 8, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Here's another one, why do people wear Che t-shirts?


Because, although he was a medical doctor, whose hobbies included beating people to death with baseball bats, he did so in furtherance of socialism.


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## crushing (Dec 9, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Here's another one, why do people wear Che t-shirts?



Because they are the coolest item Walmart carries!


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## billc (Dec 9, 2010)

I guess the reason I only see people wearing Che shirts is because I don't see them on the days they wear their Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot shirts.  Also, if you are going to wear the face of a murdering thug on your shirt, why go with such an under achiever?  I like the Cheney poster, except the colors are wrong.  They should be Red, white and blue with Liberty and Freedom at the bottom.


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## granfire (Dec 9, 2010)

billcihak said:


> I guess the reason I only see people wearing Che shirts is because I don't see them on the days they wear their Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot shirts.  Also, if you are going to wear the face of a murdering thug on your shirt, why go with such an under achiever?  I like the Cheney poster, except the colors are wrong.  They should be Red, white and blue with Liberty and Freedom at the bottom.



I suppose one had to have been there....

Somewhere along the line you ain't getting it.

Obviously you are born into a society of relative equality. I do believe those were not the conditions Che or even Mao found. Let leave the other 3 crack pots out of it for the time being...not to mention you are mixing things up again.

There is poor and there is POOR. There is the option to walk away and change things and there is the option to roll over and die, because option 1 is not available. 

I think most of us don't have a concept of being so poor that dirt poor is a step up with no prospect of making anything better out of life. 

great changes do not come without sacrifice. I am sure Napoleon should fall under the category murderer and terrorist. However he left a great legacy of unified legal codes and a restructured Europe for the better. 

And a many things usually boil down to basics: land reform....

See, bill you can't have it both ways: You claim the pilgrims didn't progress until each got their own field to work for his own wealth. But that is exactly what put those socialists on their path in life: each man a field to call their own, to work it to maximise their own wealth and not that of one single landowner. That is where the rubber meets the road.


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## Archangel M (Dec 9, 2010)

So "to make an omlette you have to crack a few eggs" eh? Easily said till its your dozen that is getting opened up. Hope you like peppers.


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## granfire (Dec 9, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> So "to make an omlette you have to crack a few eggs" eh? Easily said till its your dozen that is getting opened up. Hope you like peppers.




Peppers?
(at least I got eggs..)  

But how did we ever get from Polanski to peppers...


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## crushing (Dec 9, 2010)

billcihak said:


> I like the Cheney poster, except the colors are wrong.  They should be Red, white and blue with Liberty and Freedom at the bottom.



Maybe The Onion will do one like that.


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## billc (Dec 9, 2010)

After world war 2 with Germany, Italy and Japan in ruins the allies set up democracies that are thriving today.  Che and Castro set up a prison island that didn't lift the regular people out of poverty and did not set up a democracy.  Enough time has passed to show that castro and che were nothing more than goons, who wanted power for themselves.  The only thing that differentiates Che and Castro from the others is their incompetence at mass murder.


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## granfire (Dec 9, 2010)

billcihak said:


> After world war 2 with Germany, Italy and Japan in ruins the allies set up democracies that are thriving today.  Che and Castro set up a prison island that didn't lift the regular people out of poverty and did not set up a democracy.  Enough time has passed to show that castro and che were nothing more than goons, who wanted power for themselves.  The only thing that differentiates Che and Castro from the others is their incompetence at mass murder.



You are talking apples and oranges again.
he was not in Japan or Germany.

Sadly we never got to that part of history in school it pretty much stalled out around 45 and we concentrated - naturally - on Europe.


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## CanuckMA (Dec 10, 2010)

Because life under US installed Batista was just a haven of human rights and democracy.


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## billc (Dec 10, 2010)

Not to get into the cold war but I have to say I have never seen anyone wearing a shirt with Batista on it.  Why is it that only mass murdering, socialist thugs get their own t-shirt?


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## granfire (Dec 10, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Not to get into the cold war but I have to say I have never seen anyone wearing a shirt with Batista on it.  Why is it that only mass murdering, socialist thugs get their own t-shirt?



But that is part of the problem we are having...
boo, bad socialists...as compared to whom?

you mass murdering socialist thugs - as you put it, from the perspective of the 'conservative establishment', had - at least in the beginning the welfare of the unwashed masses, the base of the human population at heart.

The other side? Preserve their grip on wealth and power. 

Do trace your family tree back a little. Unless you descent from Rockefeller and Vanderbilt chances are the social thugs, starting from the early days of the mid 18 hundreds have thrown their weight and risked there lives so you don't have to slave away in inhumane conditions for pittance. 


Again, we started out with Mel Gibson and Roman Polanski, how does everything with you turn into a socialist thing?


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## Nomad (Dec 10, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Not to get into the cold war but I have to say I have never seen anyone wearing a shirt with Batista on it.  Why is it that only mass murdering, socialist thugs get their own t-shirt?



Marketing.


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## granfire (Dec 10, 2010)

Nomad said:


> Marketing.



Which is kind of ironic.


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## CanuckMA (Dec 10, 2010)

billcihak said:


> Not to get into the cold war but I have to say I have never seen anyone wearing a shirt with Batista on it. Why is it that only mass murdering, socialist thugs get their own t-shirt?


 

Maube because the people are both scared and broke under the capitalist mass murdering thugs.


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## billc (Dec 10, 2010)

When it comes to evil, I wonder, obviously people don't want to live under murdering thugs of either persuasion, however, would the Iranians rather suffer under the shah or the ayotollahs?


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## granfire (Dec 10, 2010)

billcihak said:


> When it comes to evil, I wonder, obviously people don't want to live under murdering thugs of either persuasion, however, would the Iranians rather suffer under the shah or the ayotollahs?



how about option c: equally intollerable...


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## billc (Dec 10, 2010)

I don't believe there was an option C.  How about the rest of the world.  Was the world better off with the Shah in power or with the ayotollahs?  Would there have been a better chance for democratic reforms, over time, with the Shah, backed by the U.S. or the ayotollahs?


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## billc (Dec 10, 2010)

We got to socialism when someone posted about people who wear t-shirts that say "free mumia."  Mumia is the convicted cop killer who is, hopefully, still on death row.  I just mentioned that there were people who still wear Che t-shirts.  Regardless of any opinions about right, left good or bad thugs, Che was a murdering thug.  My question was, Why would you honor this guy by wearing his face on your shirt.


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## granfire (Dec 10, 2010)

The power of the link


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