# The Meaning of Koryo Poomsae



## puunui (Jan 19, 2011)

<<This has developed very good black belt students with a  clear
difference between a 1st dan and a 2nd dan.>>


I am not  so sure that there should be as clear a difference between
1st and 2nd Dans,  and the reason why I say that is because of my
understanding of  Koryo.

The 1975 Taekwondo poomsae textbook describes Koryo as follows:  "Koryo
(Korea) is the name of an ancient dynasty (A.D. 918-1392) in  Korea.
The English word 'Korea' is originated from the name of  'Koryo'
Dynasty. Koryo's legacy to the Korean people is very  significant.
Koryo men invented metal type for the first time in the
world  (1234), more than two centuries before Johannes Guttenberg
(1398?-1468), and  also created the famous Koryo ceramics.
Moreover, they showed great fortitude  by persistently defeating the
aggression of the Mongolians who were sweeping  the known world
at the time. The application of the spirit of Koryo men into  the
movement of Taekwondo is Poomse "Koryo". Consequently, every
motion of  poomse Koryo is the presentation of the strong conviction
and will with which  Koryo men held in check the Mongolians, and,
therefore it can be one's  posture of cultivating himself in which he
may follow the wisdom and  unyielding spirit of the man of
conviction."

The new Kukkiwon Textbook  describes Koryo as follows (slightly
different from the older  explanation):

"Koryo poomsae symbolizes 'seonbae' which means a learned  man,
who is characterized by a strong martial spirit as well as a  righteous
learned man's spirit. The spirit had been inherited through the  ages
of Koguryo, Pahae and down to Koryo, which is the background
of  organizing the Koryo poomsae. . . . The line of poomsae
represents the  Chinese letter which means 'seonbae' or 'seonbi', a
learned man or a man of  virtue in the Korean language."

Of all the ranks and students, I expect  the least from 1st Dans. 1st
Dans often times (but not always) go through a  phase where they
are inconsistent in their training, and instead strut around  like they
have "arrived". Because of the inconsistent training, their  skill
level often decreases, and it is often true that these  practitioners
had a higher skill level as a senior red belt than as a 1st  Dan.

The 1st Dan, like the 4th Dan, is a very dangerous and unstable  time
 for many practitioners, and the point where many will stop  serious
training. Hopefully, for the 1st Dan, this phase will be a short  one,
and his or her desire and conviction for Taekwondo training  will
return.

The main difference between a 1st Dan and 2nd Dan is that  the 2nd
Dan has passed through the 1st Dan phase, and understands  that
there is more to learn and more to travel on the martial arts  journey,
that it is time to kick it up a notch and train even harder  than
before.

For me, when a student comes to this realization, and  shows the
persistence and determination to go on with the journey, then  this
student is ready for promotion to 2nd Dan, where his focus will be
to  make his techniques solid and strong.

The diagram for the the Koryo  poomsae is character # 31(Sa) in
Bruce Grant's dictionary, and he defines it  as follows:

"scholar; gentleman; officer; soldier". Examples given are  Shin Sa
(gentleman, man of honor), Byun Ho Sa (lawyer, attorney) and
Yong  Sa (brave man, man of courage).

In many respects, a 1st Dan is similar to  an "O1" in the military, the
ensign or 2nd lieutenant who just came out of  the academy or
ROTC. No one expects much from these inexperienced  officer
level members of the military, and so how much can we really  expect
from a 1st Dan, especially from the 9th Dan perspective? Like
the O1, no one really stays at that rank for very long, and the  1st
Dan, after learning to be comfortable at the dan rank level,  and
having demonstrated some discipline and understanding of the  road
ahead, is ready for the 2nd Dan promotion.

This is why in Korea,  you will find many students being promoted
relatively quickly to the 2nd Dan  level, because in Korea, the "real"
training starts at 2nd Dan, not 1st  Dan.

I believe this is why so many instructors experience  disappointment
with their 1st Dans, because they fail to understand like the  pioneers
did that 1st Dans often times need to take a break from  training,
before resuming serious training at a later point. 1st Dan is  a
natural "cruise" time for many practitioners, a recess or  summer
vacation if you will, before training starts up again. The  original
Koryo consistented of a straight line, up and down, and you went  back
and forth up and down in the form, in much the same way 1st Dans  act,
will their waning interest during their needed break time.

This is  a much different view than what most think of when they
think of 1st Dans,  but at the same time, I think we can all relate to
it to some degree. Be  patient with your 1st Dans in the same way that
you would be patient with  your brand new high school graduate
child, and they will eventually come  around and go back to school,
or quit school altogether and do something  else. Either way, it's
their decision to make, which is the lesson and choice  that all 1st
Dans must make, on their own.


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## terryl965 (Jan 19, 2011)

puunui I think the above is good insight to what may happen to alot of 1st Dan students. Thanks for the post.


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## DMcHenry (Jan 20, 2011)

Nice perspective Glenn, well said/written.


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## Miles (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for reposting these insightful commentaries!


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## dancingalone (Feb 4, 2011)

We've debated the merits of the "probationary" black belt before.  Some of the thoughts expressed above could be used in support of the practice.


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## puunui (Feb 4, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> We've debated the merits of the "probationary" black belt before.  Some of the thoughts expressed above could be used in support of the practice.



I don't believe in probationary 1st Dan. There is no probationary high school diploma, or any diploma really. I just give them their 1st Dan, and if they quit, they quit.


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## Tony49 (Feb 8, 2011)

puunui said:


> I don't believe in probationary 1st Dan. There is no probationary high school diploma, or any diploma really. I just give them their 1st Dan, and if they quit, they quit.



I agree with your OP, however disagree with your probationary comment. It could be semantics but we make our students wait 6 months after their test before receiving their belt and certificate, in a way to help them over the bump/transition form Gup to Dan.  By the way, this is pretty standard for both high school and college diplomas.  You don't get them for a couple months after graduation because they are verifying that everything is in order.  So I guess by having them wait we are just verifying that everything is in order.


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## andyjeffries (Feb 9, 2011)

puunui said:


> I don't believe in probationary 1st Dan. There is no probationary high school diploma, or any diploma really. I just give them their 1st Dan, and if they quit, they quit.



I agree with you.  If you think they are worth a 1st Dan, promote them.  What they choose to do with it is up to them.

My feelings may come from the fact that for me the mystique of the black belt has gone a bit, 1st Dan is really a stepping stone from a beginner to a real student - where they know all the basics and are at the point where a simple verbal correction can make a real difference without needing lengthy explanations without physical examples and analogies.

Some people see 1st Dan as an almighty achievement and therefore it's important to only promote to 1st Dan if you're sure they're a lifelong student.


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## puunui (Feb 9, 2011)

Tony49 said:


> By the way, this is pretty standard for both high school and college diplomas.  You don't get them for a couple months after graduation because they are verifying that everything is in order.  So I guess by having them wait we are just verifying that everything is in order.




But once you graduate from high school or college, there are no more classes to attend and you don't even have to show up. The school simply mails you your diploma or you pick it up. At most martial arts schools which use the bo dan or probationary black belt, if you fail to show up regularly for class after your black belt test, you will not leave the bo dan or probationary rank. So it is different than what high school or colleges do as far as diplomas go.


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## Tony49 (Feb 9, 2011)

Not necessary True.  Not in Highschool but in college you can graduate or go through the ceremony in May but still have to take one more class in September before you official can recieve your diploma.  Like I said they need to verify everything is on the up an up.


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## puunui (Feb 9, 2011)

Tony49 said:


> Not in Highschool but in college you can graduate or go through the ceremony in May but still have to take one more class in September before you official can recieve your diploma.  Like I said they need to verify everything is on the up an up.




Not at my college. If you didn't complete all the course requirements, then you couldn't walk and go through the ceremony. They did all that checking you are talking about before the graduation ceremony, not after. And the reason why there is a delay I was told was because they needed to print it up, not because of any checking. But maybe you went to a different college. 

Irrespective, the 1st Dan is like a high school diploma, so the analogy would be to the high school situation, which you admit you cannot graduate unless you completed everything.


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## Tony49 (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes, I definitely agree not all colleges are the same.  As for the printing, they could of easily of gotten it done ahead time.  Most teachers don't turn grades in until after. I just asked my dad about the High School he taught for 30years.  He said you could walk and then take a summer course to finish everything up.  This was rare but a possibility from time to time.  As for the whole probationary thing, we do it at our school but you are right it really doesn't matter.  If they are going to leave they are going to leave,  I just want to make sure they leave with a black belt attitude which from my limited experience only comes after you take the test and usually takes 6 months.


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## Kinghercules (Dec 25, 2011)

Maaaan, I seriously doubt that the Koreans put this much thought into Koryo when he made it back in the 50's.


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## DMcHenry (Dec 25, 2011)

wasn't the first Koryo created in 1968 and Koryo II (current) in 1972?


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## Kinghercules (Dec 25, 2011)

DMcHenry said:


> wasn't the first Koryo created in 1968 and Koryo II (current) in 1972?


I thougth it was around the late 50's?  When they created the KTA.


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## Kong Soo Do (Dec 26, 2011)

Tony49 said:


> It could be semantics but we make our students wait 6 months after their test before receiving their belt and certificate, in a way to help them over the bump/transition form Gup to Dan.



I'm curious what this 'bump' would be and how witholding their rank for six months assists them with getting over it?  Shouldn't the 6-12 months prior to testing be a prepatory period for the upcoming test?  Shouldn't this be the period the instructor(s) are assisting and evaluating them to see if testing is appropriate?



> So I guess by having them wait we are just verifying that everything is in order.



Again, shouldn't you as an instructor, have ensured everything is 'in order' prior to administering a test?  Isn't that your responsibility as an instructor?  What happens if you find, after the fact, that something is not in order?  Forget the test and not issue the rank?  Does that mean you refund the testing fee?  And what exactly would constitute something 'not being in order'?


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## Kinghercules (Dec 26, 2011)

Kong Soo Do said:


> I'm curious what this 'bump' would be and how witholding their rank for six months assists them with getting over it?  Shouldn't the 6-12 months prior to testing be a prepatory period for the upcoming test?  Shouldn't this be the period the instructor(s) are assisting and evaluating them to see if testing is appropriate?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, shouldn't you as an instructor, have ensured everything is 'in order' prior to administering a test?  Isn't that your responsibility as an instructor?  What happens if you find, after the fact, that something is not in order?  Forget the test and not issue the rank?  Does that mean you refund the testing fee?  And what exactly would constitute something 'not being in order'?



Yeah I have to agree with Kong Soo Do.  That doesnt make sense to me.  Because six months later it shud be time for another test.


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