# Headaches after Karate class



## Lynne (Sep 7, 2007)

I wonder if it's dehydration.  I drink 20 oz. of water before class.  Class is an hour unless followed by sparring class (another 45 minutes).  I've been noticing headaches after class.  Once, I coughed and I felt like someone had driven an ice pick through my temple, then the pounding began.

I don't have headaches all of the time, but they occur often enough that I'm correlating class and the headaches.

I drink another 20 oz. of water after class.  Maybe I need electrolytes?  Perhaps a Gatorade after class would be a good choice?

Anyone experience the headaches or have any ideas?


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## stoneheart (Sep 7, 2007)

Lynne, are you tense during class?  Many beginning karate-ka continuously hold tension in their shoulders, arms, and legs when performing kihon (basics) and kata.   It's not until they progress a bit that they learn to relax and only tighten up the exact muscle groups that need to be firm during the truncation of a technique and not during the entire movement.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 7, 2007)

Both the muscular-tension and electrolyte-balance theories have credability as both could cause headaches.  

Another idea to add to the mix is blood-sugar or salt levels.  If your training is physically vigorous, it may be that you need a bit of a snack to pick those up a touch.  Related to this, I used to get headaches when I did bicycle time-trialing due to simple over-exertion.

One further thing to consider, how is your blood-pressure?  Do you get headaches after any hard excercise or just from your MA classes?  It might be worth getting your quack to check you out as the high concentration and stress levels of training may be combining with the purely physical to cause a problem in that area.

These are all just guesses and ideas thown out into the light to see if anything sounds plausible - the usual disclaimers about my utter lack of medical expertise apply .


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## crushing (Sep 7, 2007)

Breathe!  Make sure you are breathing.  I ran into an extreme of this Wednesday night.  It was hot and I'm sure I lost a lot of water, but what really got me was when I was put into a bear hug to do a defense and I didn't make sure I was breathing and I got a piercing headache that actually put me down on the floor for a moment.  Once I caught my breath I was feeling better.

When I notice the onset of a headache while training, I start paying attention to my breathing more and can usually recover quickly.  Breathing properly is a huge part of training.  I think breathing goes hand-in-hand with being tense or relaxed which goes to stoneheart's point above.

I think GM recognized my problem, because later in the class he led us through some breathing excercises while doing some simple hand movements and while performing forms.


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## Kacey (Sep 7, 2007)

In addition to the above - all good suggestions - how's the temperature?  When I overheat I get headaches, and sometimes dizzy - due to low blood pressure, rather than high.

Also, as Sukerkin pointed out, electrolyte balance is important - and that's more than just water; too much water can leave your electrolytes out of whack, so you might try a small bottle of Gatorade or something similar in place of some of your water.


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## Blindside (Sep 7, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I wonder if it's dehydration. I drink 20 oz. of water before class. Class is an hour unless followed by sparring class (another 45 minutes). I've been noticing headaches after class. Once, I coughed and I felt like someone had driven an ice pick through my temple, then the pounding began.
> 
> I don't have headaches all of the time, but they occur often enough that I'm correlating class and the headaches.
> 
> ...


 
During class, not after.  Replace water/electrolytes on an ongoing basis, once you feel cruddy, you are behind the curve.  I like Gatorade, but much prefer Cytomax, less sweet, better mix for electrolyte replacement.

Lamont


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2007)

Blindside said:


> During class, not after. Replace water/electrolytes on an ongoing basis, once you feel cruddy, you are behind the curve. I like Gatorade, but much prefer Cytomax, less sweet, better mix for electrolyte replacement.
> 
> Lamont


 
I agree with this, I drink water all through training, we're encouraged to. Drinking small amounts regularly is much better than lots before and after training.


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## Ceicei (Sep 7, 2007)

Don't forget the environment (sounds and smells) can influence the way you feel after class.  

- Ceicei


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## Lynne (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback.

Unfortunately, we are not allowed to hydrate during class.  I drink the 20 oz. of water but no more because if I drink more I'll have to run to the ladie's room.  None of the ladies drink more than 16 oz. - 20 oz. water because of that potential problem.  It can be quite hot in the Dojang and I do mean hot; sometimes it's so warm that we are reluctant to stretch before our class starts - we'll have sweat rolling down our face just stretching.  This doesn't mean the a/c isn't on.  There's a huge kid's class before ours.  Lots of people = hot.  It does beat being too cold and pulling a muscle though.

I sneak in a few sips of water before sparring class.  It means I run two - three minutes late and have to wait to be admitted.  But I just finished a hard one-hour workout and there is no way I can do 45 minutes of sparring/sparring drills without a little hydration.  The headaches are worse after sparring.  

In truth, my daughter and I are both quite hoarse after regular class.  Do you think some Gatorade before hand would be helpful?  I noticed I space out sometimes in class.  At first, I thought I was relaxed but I think it's low-blood sugar. Low-blood sugar is tricky because the body doesn't always send hunger signals.  I do eat at 4:30 and class is at 7:00.  I may eat a snack about 5:30 or 6:00 and see if that helps.

Tension?  I do have a lot of tension in my neck and shoulders.  I was in a car accident at 16 and have chronic tight muscles.  And I do tense up during class.  I'm learning to become a little more relaxed at times, but not always.  Part of the problem is it so's dang loud that I can't hear the instructor at times and have to really strain to hear - I know that I'm worried about doing the wrong thing.

Our classes are often the blood, sweat and tears classes, heavy on conditioning.  I've never attended an easy class.  I have gotten dizzy a few times and on those few rare occasions we happened to do a cool down. I'm not complaining; I like the challenging classes but I've learned to step out if I think I'm going to get sick.  I did that once when we were doing shuffle drills constantly around the perimeter of the Dojang.  I've seen belts higher than myself go down and remain in the corner the rest of the class because they didn't pace themselves or step out when they should have.  I've been lucky so far.

I'll try some of the suggestions and see if they work.  I'll let you know.  Thanks very much.


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## searcher (Sep 7, 2007)

Have you consulted a physician yet?

And I think its nuts that you cannot re-hydrate during class.   I run some pretty hard-core classes and I am a firm believer in taking care of your body.   JMHO.


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## qi-tah (Sep 8, 2007)

searcher said:


> Have you consulted a physician yet?
> 
> *And I think its nuts that you cannot re-hydrate during class.* I run some pretty hard-core classes and I am a firm believer in taking care of your body. JMHO.


 
Not just nuts, dangerous as well! Especially as yr dojang is hot... if you are sweating whilst stretching then i guessing you are wringing out yr t-shirt by the end of the night! 
20oz is about 600ml, right? There is *no way* that 600mls is enough water for 1 hr and 45 minutes of hard-core training in a hot gym. You will be dehydrated for sure. I regularly put away 1.5 litres of fluids during my 2 hour class in summer. And i take pit stops to run my head underneath a tap as well. Heat stroke is not fun!


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## Sukerkin (Sep 8, 2007)

Sensible lass, there :tup:.

I would seriously consider having a chat with your instructors, *Lynne*.  Not allowing people to hydrate during class is dangerous.  I don't normally like to make declamatory statements about people I don't know but, to be frank, there's 'hard-core' and there's 'stupid'.

You chaps aren't Navy Seals or SAS, so pushing you to the edge of heat exhaustion is a needless risk.


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## grydth (Sep 8, 2007)

Add my voice to the chorus on the dangers of not allowing students to rehydrate. In my old Army unit, you would be relieved for cause if you allowed your soldiers to sustain heat injuries.

I can see reasonable restrictions, as they have in my daughters' dojo. You can't have a steady stream of people transiting on/off the mats and pausing for social hour. At their school, students are strongly urged to come to class already well hydrated. On hot days, the sensei will announce, "20 seconds to get drinks! GO!".... and one had better be back in time.


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## Lynne (Sep 8, 2007)

Most of our classes are one-hour long.  If I go to sparring, it's an additional 45-minute class to equal 1 hour, 45 minutes.

But, yes, it's hot.  I think I will ask if we can have water bottles in class.  It will be interesting to find out why not.  My guess is that taking time to drink water disrupts the class.  Of course the answer to that is for everyone to grab a drink of water between one of the rotations.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 8, 2007)

All the teacher needs to do in order to control the amount of disruption is make a clean break during transitions in order to hydrate.  I like the idea of giving a certain amount of time to get it done and get back on the line.  I've done that when its really hot.

Another thing to consider is your overall diet.  How well do you eat?  Are you getting enough vitamins and minerals?  If you are eating food with lots of salts and preservatives, these can be concentrated when you start sweating a lot.  Basically, as the levels of "poisons" increase in your blood, you begin to feel sicker and sicker.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 8, 2007)

That's a good point *upnorth*.  When I posted earlier I was thinking of mentioning the build up of fatigue poisons in the body more explicitly but I never even considered what you highlighted there :tup:.


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## Logan (Sep 8, 2007)

Do you suffer from migraines at all? Even if you don't, it's not uncommon for it to develop - I would check with a doctor if you're worried.

Sometimes just overexerting yourself can result in headaches.


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## Lynne (Sep 8, 2007)

Logan said:


> Do you suffer from migraines at all? Even if you don't, it's not uncommon for it to develop - I would check with a doctor if you're worried.
> 
> Sometimes just overexerting yourself can result in headaches.


Hi Logan,

I have had some migraines over the past few years because of fluctuations in female hormones.  I'm now on a hormone that stopped them cold.

We do get pushed very hard in class but I assume that's the same for most martial arts?  I have only gotten dizzy a few times though.  But it could be the exertion, period.  I think I will try more water before class and see how that works.

If the headaches persist, I will see a doctor though...if I can find a good one in my area.


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## Lynne (Sep 8, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> All the teacher needs to do in order to control the amount of disruption is make a clean break during transitions in order to hydrate. I like the idea of giving a certain amount of time to get it done and get back on the line. I've done that when its really hot.
> 
> Another thing to consider is your overall diet. How well do you eat? Are you getting enough vitamins and minerals? If you are eating food with lots of salts and preservatives, these can be concentrated when you start sweating a lot. Basically, as the levels of "poisons" increase in your blood, you begin to feel sicker and sicker.


I hadn't thought of that.  Awhile back, my doctor said I was low in potassium (well, she's a nurse - rural area) and wasn't worried though.  I do know that eating a lot of salt can lower potassium and my diet is high in salt.  There are some preservatives because my diet is 100% clean.

So, a cleaner diet might help?  I can certainly try it.

I just got my iron levels back to normal about 6 months ago (iron deficiency anemia) - it took 9 months of daily supplementation.  Intense martial arts could be depleting one or more minerals/vitamins.

I've just started taking a One-A-Day two times a day.


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 9, 2007)

Lynne,

Be aware that you do need a certain amount of salt if you are exercising a lot, you will sweat it out.  You'll know when you need more because you'll get cramps a lot more.

You must drink during class, simple.  I've seen soldiers in hospital for this and its not nice.


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## Kacey (Sep 9, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I've just started taking a One-A-Day two times a day.


I would suggest discussing this with a doctor as well.  Some vitamins and minerals are toxic if too much is taken.  Rather than doubling up on a multi-vitamin, you would be better off taking additional doses of just those vitamins and minerals in which you feel you are deficient.  For example, I take Centrum's general multi-vitamin, but I also take additional vitamin C, folic acid (B-complex), vitamin E, and calcium with vitamin D - but before I added those I talked to my doctor about what would be beneficial, what would flush out of my system without effect, and what would be enough to cause negative side effects.


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## TheOriginalName (Sep 9, 2007)

I think the best advice here is *go see a medical professional*.

Get yourself checked out properly. This could be a symptom of something more serious: diabeties, blood pressure etc. 
Or could simply be as previously mention due to tension and dehydration. 

In either case see a doctor and they should be able to help you manage whatever is the cause. 

Also, speak to your instructor - make sure they are fully aware of the situation so that they can assist you in managing whatever ends up being the cause. 

Best of luck


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## loyalonehk (Sep 9, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> I think the best advice here is *go see a medical professional*.
> 
> Get yourself checked out properly. This could be a symptom of something more serious: diabeties, blood pressure etc.
> Or could simply be as previously mention due to tension and dehydration.
> ...


 
SOUND ADVISE!  _take it q.d. prn... (daily as needed):wink1::caffeine:_


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## Logan (Sep 10, 2007)

Lynne said:


> Hi Logan,
> 
> I have had some migraines over the past few years because of fluctuations in female hormones. I'm now on a hormone that stopped them cold.
> 
> ...


 
Best check with a doctor. I have seen people trigger migraine attacks of various levels through exercise - sometimes through overexertion, sometimes through the time of day etc.


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## searcher (Sep 10, 2007)

Unless someone on here happens to be your family physician then you need to go to your doctor.


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## Lynne (Sep 11, 2007)

I want to have a lipid panel done anyway.  I'll talk to my doctor before I make an apptmt. for blood tests so that she can order potassium tests or whatever.

I tell you, though, it took several years for my anemia to be diagnosed.  I wonder if health insurance is the problem.  It was like pulling teeth to get any iron tests.  When they first tested me, they only tested hematocrit and hemoglobin - they were low-normal. A few weeks later after I couldn't take two lightweight garbage bags down the driveway without resting, I knew something was very, very wrong.  My heart was racing and I was having a hard time breathing.  I was so weak I wanted to cry.  But I had to push to get any help.  So, finally my iron level was checked, and my transferrin saturation rate and total iron binding capacity were checked.  "Oh, you have anemia..."  The doctor had messed around so long that my hemoglobin and hematocrit continued to fall and it looked like I was going to need a transfusion.  (I was having flooding episodes, my hair had fallen out to the point I needed a wig, and I was extremely fatigued.  If you guess iron deficiency anemia, I award you an honorary MD.)  They had originally diagnosed the hair loss as female pattern baldness, androgenetic alopecia.  After being on iron for 9 months, my hair came back in after suffering with hair loss for several years.

I'm tired of having to diagnose myself.

What I need is an internist - no nurse practitioners or general physicians.  We live in a rural community. We are going to try to find an internist.  In the meantime, I will see what can be done.  (I'm still fatigued.)

P.S. - when I had anemia, they diagnosed me with clinical depression instead and put me on Lexapro which made me even more fatigued.  I took myself off of that mess.  I guess it's cheaper to prescribe an antidepressant than to run tests for anemia.


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## Lynne (Sep 12, 2007)

Last evening, I talked with one of my classmates who is a registered nurse.  She noted that I perspire a lot and recommended I drink a Gatorade two hours before class.  She asked me about my caffeine intake.  It's quite high during the day.  She suggested I cut back on the caffeine or at least have a glass of water for every caffeinated coffee/diet soda.  She said that headaches are the first sign of dehydration.

I drank an extra 16 oz. of water before class for a total of 36 oz.  I will continue to do that.   Any extra fluids are sweated out!  At least in my case.

I had sparring class after regular class last night.  I did not get a headache.

I'll start watching the caffeine intake and drink more water as well as trying a Gatorade a couple of hours before class.

When I was getting ready to shower, the senior instructor came in and was warning everyone to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.  One reason is because my daughter has to excuse herself to get water during sparring class. We were told to hydrate during the _day_, 8  - 10 glasses of water.  So, I guess if we hydrate enough during the day we shouldn't need water during class.


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## Laurentkd (Sep 12, 2007)

Lynne said:


> When I was getting ready to shower, the senior instructor came in and was warning everyone to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. One reason is because my daughter has to excuse herself to get water during sparring class. We were told to hydrate during the _day_, 8 - 10 glasses of water. So, I guess if we hydrate enough during the day we shouldn't need water during class.


 

It is true that hydrating yourself all day is very benificial (much more so than drinking a bunch of water right before class).  But you should still try to replenish the water you are losing during class by taking a few swallows of water every 10 or so minutes.  Sounds like you have some pretty hard core workouts (which is great).  Try this... weigh yourself right before class and then again right after class, you may be suprised how much water weight you are losing!  You should drink 2 cups of water for every pound lost. You also mentioned low blood sugar in an earlier post.  I am hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) and have to eat pretty much right before I start training.  My classmates can't understand how I can eat and bow in and manage not to puke during class, but for me it feels much better than than not eating.


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## Lynne (Sep 12, 2007)

Laurentkd said:


> It is true that hydrating yourself all day is very benificial (much more so than drinking a bunch of water right before class). But you should still try to replenish the water you are losing during class by taking a few swallows of water every 10 or so minutes. Sounds like you have some pretty hard core workouts (which is great). Try this... weigh yourself right before class and then again right after class, you may be suprised how much water weight you are losing! You should drink 2 cups of water for every pound lost. You also mentioned low blood sugar in an earlier post. I am hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) and have to eat pretty much right before I start training. My classmates can't understand how I can eat and bow in and manage not to puke during class, but for me it feels much better than than not eating.


Hey Lauren,

We aren't allowed to drink water during class.  If I have a sparring class after regular class, I sneak in a few sips and wait to be admitted to class.

I will tell you this.  I've weighed every morning after the regular workout/sparring workout and I weigh two pounds less.  That's the morning after and I've eaten and drank the night before.  So, I might be losing more than two pounds of fluid. I do sweat like a piggy.

About the hypoglycemia - I'm worried about drinking a Gatorade because of the sugar.  I am finding the closer I eat to class the better I feel.  But I need to be hungry when I eat, otherwise I have an insulin response.  The eating 5 - 6X day thing is crazy for me.  Eating = insulin response.


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## TheOriginalName (Sep 12, 2007)

Hey there....

In regards to hydration: I had a similar thing. I've been addicted to Coca-Cola for the past 4 years or so (i used it to assist me quitting smoking - so it was a step in the right direction). I've recently started to replace it with water (using a step down approach - slow but hopefully more successful than cold-turkey) and have noticed how much of a difference it makes to my training. 

My suggestion to anyone who stuggles getting enough water during the day - whenever you get a coffee/soft-drink or other "unhealthy" drink also get a bottle of water (this is paricularly good for office workers). The deal is your not allowed another "unhealthy" drink till the water is gone. 

Personally i've found that this has helped me a lot in just the 2 weeks i've been doing it (currently doing a "lifestyle" change to improve my ability to train). 

Also, if to anyone worried about their blood-sugar levels: *SEE A DOCTOR*.
The only way to find out if you do have a blood-sugar problem is to have an blood-glucose blood test done (at least that is my understanding).
Basically you fast for 12 hours then they give you a extremely high sugar drink and take blood samples at the 0 time point, the 1 hour point and the 2 hour point. This shows how your body processes a fixed amount of sugar over the time period. If you have any problems this will identify it and allow you and your doctor to create a plan for dealing with it.


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## Lynne (Sep 12, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> Hey there....
> 
> In regards to hydration: I had a similar thing. I've been addicted to Coca-Cola for the past 4 years or so (i used it to assist me quitting smoking - so it was a step in the right direction). I've recently started to replace it with water (using a step down approach - slow but hopefully more successful than cold-turkey) and have noticed how much of a difference it makes to my training.
> 
> ...


Good luck on quitting smoking! That's a real accomplishment.  I've seen people struggle and struggle and I've seen others do it cold turkey.  I can't imagine how hard it is to stop.

I did have a glucose tolerance test a few years ago as I'd seen an endocrinologist (my regular physician, actually a nurse practitioner prescribed an antidepressant for my fatigue, thinking it was clinical depression.)   They never called me with results so I started pestering them.  Finally a nurse called me and said everything was fine (it took two months), that my fasting blood glucose was 84 (it had been 110 and I had started running and changed my diet).  It was over a year later, when I visited my general physician that I found that my blood sugar had dropped to 45 at the three-hour mark. That's definitely hypoglycemia as normal levels stay about 65 or so.  He was astounded that the nurse had overstepped her bounds like that.

So, I never did return to the endocrinologist's office.  I'm rather aggravated with my doctor's office as well.  I can diagnose myself when I have classical symptoms but they cannot.

I will say that the hypoglycemia is getting much better with intense exercise (martial arts). Much,much better.  So, I am becoming more insulin sensitive - a very good thing.  Type II Diabetes runs on both my maternal and paternal sides.  On the maternal side, they have all been slim people, on my father's side, they generally ate a lot of sugar, lard, drank heavily and smoked heavily (bad lifestyle habits).  But just being 5 pounds overweight can turn on the diabetes gene   .

I am checking into finding a new doctor, an internist.

I will drink more water, less caffeinated beverages.


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## Lynne (Sep 20, 2007)

For whatever reason(s), the headaches have stopped.

I'm drinking more water right before class.

I'm also following a semi-low-carb diet.  I eat high-fat/low-carb during the day but have fruit and cottage cheese (about 300 - 400 calories) 1-1/2 hours before a workout.  I'm eating closer to the workout which I believe is really helping.

My energy is higher during the day with no afternoon slumps, no carbohydrate drag at anytime (unless I eat too much fruit at dinner).


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## ewhip (Oct 18, 2007)

Logan said:


> Best check with a doctor. I have seen people trigger migraine attacks of various levels through exercise - sometimes through overexertion, sometimes through the time of day etc.


 
I've had trouble with migraines for the past couple of years and have found that getting overheated will really trigger them. Hydrating helps, but sometimes there's just no avoiding it if it's just too hot. That and changes in weather really can put me down. Oh and alcohol, but that's why I quit drinking.....


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## tellner (Oct 18, 2007)

Lynne said:


> For whatever reason(s), the headaches have stopped.
> 
> I'm drinking more water right before class.
> 
> I'm also following a semi-low-carb diet..



I'm glad you're feeling better. And congratulations on finding a diet that works for you. But if the headaches come back you should see a doctor. Really. It could be a sign of some more serious underlying condition.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 18, 2007)

i now try to breath as normally as possible.  
basically i am sure it is a type of overexertion. maybe also blocks or uncontrolled areas of body also?  also i have speculated that maybe the brain is getting an unnatural amount of air that it is not used to..particulary if you are leading a bad lifestyle.  i still don't know exactly what it could be. but i now try to keep my breathing a little more constant.

also, one should know ones limits..- this can change over time without you noticing it.  - another theory i have, is there are some kind of impurities in the system.. strange chemicals, preservatives,  etc..

also, as a kid it didnt matter to me, but if i take a long hot bath and then train like really hard, it's almost a garanteed headache..
keeping in mind i smoke,- occasionaly drink and generally have become too lazy and lethargic.
so it's no wonder really to get a headache when suddenly busting out intense breathing accompanied with all kinds of tension and tension release.





j


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## HelloKitty (Oct 23, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I wonder if it's dehydration. I drink 20 oz. of water before class. Class is an hour unless followed by sparring class (another 45 minutes). I've been noticing headaches after class. Once, I coughed and I felt like someone had driven an ice pick through my temple, then the pounding began.
> 
> I don't have headaches all of the time, but they occur often enough that I'm correlating class and the headaches.
> 
> ...


 
I'm been doing TKD from April again, and I had strong headaches when the class was too intense. Or if we have long hard classes the only way I can finish them is relaxing and lowing my speed, the power on kicks, etc.

It's possibly related to the intensity and variety of aerobic and anaerobic exercises a martial artist usually does, and related to the oxygen levels recieved (That's why the instructors are always remembering the students to breath and/or yelling when they are pushing up, kicking, etc). I think the headaches will dissapear when you get used to the rythm of your school.


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## Yari (Oct 23, 2007)

See a doctor...

There are alot of good suggestions. One thing you might look into is your bodies way of using insulin- diabeties. Not saying that you have it. But some poeple will experience that the body has problems regulating there body sugar. And when under physical stress, the body may have problems distributing insulin/sugar.

But I'm no doctor

/yari


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## Lynne (Feb 26, 2008)

My headaches went away a few months ago.

I think the problem may have been several-fold:

1)  too much caffeine might have been dehydrating me
2)  overexertion as some suggested
3)  not eating enough before class (dieting mentality)
4)  not eating enough after class (dieting mentality)

I've cut back on the caffeine some.  I seem to be more conditioned now or else the classes have gotten easier (umm...doubt that).  I also eat 400 - 500 calories (usually a peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread) an hour and a half before class.

I've actually switched back over to more carbs and have more energy.  I just have to make sure I don't eat much sugar.


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