# hickory to make a short fighting stick



## Deaf Smith (May 13, 2009)

I have a lathe and I'd like to make my own short sticks for self defense. Any ideas where to get hickory stock to make some?

Thanks,

Deaf


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## jks9199 (May 14, 2009)

Find yourself a good lumberyard or wood supplier that provides material for home woodworkers.

Good luck, because the good places are rare!


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## lklawson (May 14, 2009)

Specialty lumber yards.  Don't look at Lowe's and generic "Home Improvement" stores.

You might want to consider spokeshave or drawknife method rather than lathe.  That way you control the grain and don't have grain-runnout.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## bluekey88 (May 14, 2009)

nother idea would be to order axe or shovel handles made of hickory and then cur to length.  They'd already be a good diameter as well.  You can order just the handles through ay number of sources.

Peace,
Erik


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## arnisador (May 14, 2009)

Ah, ordering the handles only sounds like a useful option!


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## Thems Fighting Words (May 14, 2009)

This is probably a really uncreative answer but why not just buy the hickory sticks and cut to desired size? Save damaging an axe handle.


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## bluekey88 (May 15, 2009)

BEcause buying axe or shovel handles is probably the best way to get hickory sticks.  It'll be hard/ex[ensive to get a lumber yard to cut them for you special.


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## lklawson (May 15, 2009)

bluekey88 said:


> It'll be hard/ex[ensive to get a lumber yard to cut them for you special.


Which is why spokeshaving is so attractive.

Buy a largish plank, split it along the grain, then spokeshave (or even hand-plane) the proper shape. I admit that I don't have the real skill in this area (having tried it before using Ash with predictably amateur results), but I know folks who do it and do it well.

Heck, my friends over at the Modern Shillealgh Project craft their own hickory sticks using exactly this method. IMS, thier sticks are about 4' long and they shave 'em down to ~1" dia..

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## bluekey88 (May 15, 2009)

No doubt that's a fine way to go.  But it takes a fair bit of practice. Personally, I'm all for the use of hand tools.  I love working with wood.  However, there's nothing wrong with taking a shortcut here or there.  Just a matter of personal preference.

Peace,
Erik


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## Deaf Smith (May 15, 2009)

So are most axe handles hickory?

I now have a lead to quite a number of types of wood, but if shovel handles and axe handles are hickory, then the only real problem is thinning them down.

Now a design for a good fighting stick.

For a woman would a 1 inch diameter be to large? She's 5' 6" and in fit shape. And is 12 inches to long (or to short?)

See here in Texas you can carry an club, illegal knife (over 5.5 inches in blade length), or handgun in your car CONCEALED. She has a kid so we both thought a stick would be the thing so even if a child found it, it would be no big deal.

Thanks,

Deaf


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## jks9199 (May 15, 2009)

How will she use the stick?  That defines the best length.  

Can she hold it and control it?  If so, the stick isn't too big around or too long.

Quite honestly, if you can't already answer these questions, I'd suggest finding someone who can to teach her and help you select the proper stick.


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## lklawson (May 18, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> How will she use the stick? That defines the best length.


Excellent advice.  There are only about 10,000 different stick systems out there (to take a WAG), each with their own internal theories on stick size, length, and shape.  Heck, I'm familiar with at least 6 different WMA Cane/Walking-Stick systems, and several it's not exactly uncommon for the prefered Cane in one system to be somewhat lacking for another.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## tellner (May 18, 2009)

I generally use handles - axe handles, pick handles and so on. Usually the stock is close enough to what I want that the work is mostly with abrasives. Sometimes a little judicious work with saw, router and draw-knife (I don't have a spokeshave) is required to rough it out.


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## Deaf Smith (May 18, 2009)

What I'll do is use a common dowl, cut to various lengths and diameters, and let her try them out. Find what seems to fit her hand the best and how long is to long!

Now I'm not talking about an art here. The whole purpose is so she can carry it in her car for self defense (in Texas, you can carry a illegal knife like a bowie, club, or handgun, CONCEALED, in the car without a permit.) So it has to be concealed in the car. No long sticks.

She does not want a handgun in the car nor knife because of her child. So... the stick seems the way to go. She is already a 1st dan, but she is wise enough to know she needs a 'force multiplier'. That is a weapon.

Deaf


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## Skpotamus (May 18, 2009)

You might consider (or have her consider) a non round shape for the striking portion of the stick.  I've seen some Philipine sticks made from cocobolo and other materials that had a kind of oval or tear shaped grip, and the striking surface was shaped more like "<>", which focuses the striking force over a smaller area, making it a more effective force multiplier.  

Can the stick be metal?  Is it legal for her to carry an asp in her car?  

You could also go with an acrylic or nylon material http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=147& which can be a bit heavier than heavier woods (more impact).


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## Thems Fighting Words (May 18, 2009)

bluekey88 said:


> BEcause buying axe or shovel handles is probably the best way to get hickory sticks.  It'll be hard/ex[ensive to get a lumber yard to cut them for you special.



Oh. Well my local mega-hardware store (local as in half an hour away) stocks ready made sticks of all wood types so you can make your own axes, hoes, shovels etc. Mind, you it's the only one I know of so maybe I'm just lucky I found it.


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## lklawson (May 19, 2009)

Skpotamus said:


> You could also go with an acrylic or nylon material


Nylatron is has been fairly popular as an alternative.  It's made in convenient rod lenths.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Deaf Smith (May 19, 2009)

Skpotamus said:


> You might consider (or have her consider) a non round shape for the striking portion of the stick. I've seen some Philipine sticks made from cocobolo and other materials that had a kind of oval or tear shaped grip, and the striking surface was shaped more like "<>", which focuses the striking force over a smaller area, making it a more effective force multiplier.
> 
> Can the stick be metal? Is it legal for her to carry an asp in her car?
> 
> You could also go with an acrylic or nylon material http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=147& which can be a bit heavier than heavier woods (more impact).


 
I've got an ASP but it's heavy. In Texas it says any 'club', that includes an ASP.

I think I'll go to Lowes and get one wood dowl. Cut it to 10, 12, and 14 inch lengths (past that in a car it would be hard to conceal) and see which one she perfers. Maybe the 7/8ths inch thick ones.

Might even make a couple for myself!

I'll also check out the acrylic.

Thanks,

Deaf


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## lklawson (May 20, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> I think I'll go to Lowes and get one wood dowl. Cut it to 10, 12, and 14 inch lengths (past that in a car it would be hard to conceal) and see which one she perfers. Maybe the 7/8ths inch thick ones.


Splintering and breaking due to grain run-out is common on turned dowels.  Especially thin ones like 7/8".

They're fine for non or light contact practice but past that, not so much.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## bluekey88 (May 20, 2009)

That's  a good point.  I'd probably look at something like 1 1/4" stock in that case.


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## Deaf Smith (May 20, 2009)

The ones from Lowes is just to see what fits her (and me!) Then make the real ones out of hickory or some other very good wood.

Deaf


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## wushuguy (Nov 28, 2009)

some things worry me a little a bout this, sorry if it may have already been addressed but:

1. she is 1st dan... but seems not to know what length stick is good to carry... has she ever had experience using a stick in her style of martial art? cutting in various lengths to try out sounds ok, but still best to have some real training with the kind of weapon she plans to carry.

2. I just worry that if there isn't much experience a "force multiplier" may not be used properly if there was a time to use it. having experience with using a weapon is vastly different than picking one up and hoping to club an attacker with it.

Otherwise, hickory sounds like a great wood to use. good luck with the axe handles. perhaps an old table leg can be turned on the lathe. hardwood tables i would think have good quality wood.


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## jks9199 (Nov 28, 2009)

wushuguy said:


> some things worry me a little a bout this, sorry if it may have already been addressed but:
> 
> 1. she is 1st dan... but seems not to know what length stick is good to carry... has she ever had experience using a stick in her style of martial art? cutting in various lengths to try out sounds ok, but still best to have some real training with the kind of weapon she plans to carry.
> 
> ...


Not all systems include weapons at all -- and some don't include them until black belt.  So it's not inconceivable that a 1st dan black belt wouldn't automatically know how to use a stick -- let alone a specific length of stick.  She may have learned a staff form or staff sets, but no short stick system.  Deaf Smith's plan was to figure out what stick would meet multiple criteria; I'd love to hear how it turned out!  (hint... hint...)

As to using furniture legs for striking wood... Not necessarily smart.  Let's assume we're talking about decent or fine furniture in the first place (lots of furniture out there is NOT particularly good...), the leg will have been shaped for the furniture.  It probably is quartersawn at best -- and there's every likelihood it's not even that.  That means that the grain may not be in at all a reasonable line for striking.  The wood is also going to be very, very dry -- making it brittle.

The best way to make a stick for striking, when possible, is to use either an entire branch or tree, and use spokeshaves, draw knives, or similar tools to bring it down to size, if necessary.  Seal it while it's still pretty green, so that you maintain a lot of the flexibility and inherent liveliness of the wood, rather than let it become brittle.

Ax handles, hammer, and similar tool handles are great quick and easy sticks because they're designed for absorbing the same sort of energy as a strike.


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## Gary Crawford (Nov 29, 2009)

Years ago when I was in the "one dollar store " business,  I got a buy on a case of walking canes. I noticed that they were made of some very hard wood(probably hickory), longer than escima's,slightly smaller diameter and just slightly heavier. I cut them all to escrima length and then sold them all as escrimas. I still have two of them and if I had to defend myself with escimas,I would much rather use them than my rattan ones. Having said that, if I needed a good hard stick that I could carry legally,a cane would be a good choice.


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## takezo (Nov 29, 2009)

Without any knowledge of this individuals background or training it is very difficult to make a recommendation.

That said I would suggest you individually Google: Yawara and Claves.

I have carried a pair rosewood Claves for about 30 years (...weapon? Why no officer they are portable musical rhythm instruments...). This was necessary since Nunchuku were outlawed here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia thanks to Bruce Lee's making them known to the general public and law enforcement.

Used in pairs they provide a significant force multiplier and are easily concealed in an out of the car. Unfortunately, finding an instructor that can teach something more than law enforcement apprehending and control techniques is a needle and haystack proposition.


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## lklawson (Nov 30, 2009)

wushuguy said:


> 2. I just worry that if there isn't much experience a "force multiplier" may not be used properly if there was a time to use it. having experience with using a weapon is vastly different than picking one up and hoping to club an attacker with it.


I agree that getting proper training is the best idea.  Yet, having a self defense tool, even in the absence of training, is still far better than crying and begging for mercy.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## takezo (Nov 30, 2009)

For those interested in the impact properties of various woods the following link may provide some insight:

http://www.aikiweb.com/weapons/goedkoop1.html

Unfortunately some of the most desireable woods are also endangered and/or flatout not available.  I prefer White Birch for Yawara (2ft), Jo, Bo, and Yari hafts due to it's price, availability and 'specific impact' properties (Impact Strength / Specific Gravity).


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## James Kovacich (Dec 3, 2009)

Hickory is good as long as it is a fighting stick and  not a sparring stick.

There was a guy searching for mulberry branches to make his walking sticks that he sells. He stated he liked them because they were hardwood. That I had never considered before.

I trimmed my mulberry tree but haven't skinned them yet. I cut some really nice pieces, hopefully they are good.


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