# Why don't Kung fu forms feature many hooks or uppercuts



## qianfeng (Mar 21, 2015)

Hooks and uppercuts are rather common punches so why aren't they common in kung fu forms? Most forms have mostly straight punches.


----------



## Drose427 (Mar 21, 2015)

The simplest explanation?

in forms in any style, A punch is not always a punch and a grab is not always a grab.

The grab at the collar could be an uppercut, and the punch to the chest could just the little push needed for a takedown.

Remember forms have the literal movement (i.e. what you call it for the sake of teaching a new studemt a new form) and interpreted movements (how a student feels he can use a movement) and these things arent always the same.

So there could be uppercuts and hooks in forms depending on interpretation.

now, im not a KF guy, ive only ever met one KF guy and i couldnt tell you which style he was from.  But the form he did at the tournament had a few moves that could have been uppercuts. 

For all i know about Kung Fu, it could be the one style where forms  arent based on interpretation lol  That was just a general rule of thumb with forms


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 21, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Hooks and uppercuts are rather common punches so why aren't they common in kung fu forms? Most forms have mostly straight punches.



Short answer...they do train them, you just have to know what your looking at.

They train elbows strikes, shoulder strikes and knees too...old CMA saying "the body is a fist"


----------



## hawkryger (Mar 21, 2015)

In Northern Mantis KF there is a pretty big variety of punches, including uppercuts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mograph (Mar 21, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> They train elbows strikes, shoulder strikes and knees too...old CMA saying "the body is a fist"


Yeah. It's my understanding that the application of CMA styles is pretty much "whatever you got, use it," even though the forms might not show it. Also, while sometimes the principles may sound vague ("use circles!") they broaden the applicability of the various techniques.


----------



## Dinkydoo (Mar 21, 2015)

Have you seen many Seven Star Praying Mantis forms?

This is just a quick link to one that springs to mind (I can post others when i'm not so busy). Its not at full speed.

Mui Far Low Kuen - M-Kung-Fu - Seven Star Mantis Kung Fu:


----------



## Danny T (Mar 21, 2015)

Form is movement, movement to position not application. Form is implication. Many things implied.


----------



## qianfeng (Mar 21, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> Short answer...they do train them, you just have to know what your looking at.
> 
> They train elbows strikes, shoulder strikes and knees too...old CMA saying "the body is a fist"



Haha i know kung fu people train them Im one myself


----------



## clfsean (Mar 21, 2015)

Gok Choi...  Jyu Geng Pao Choi... base techniques in Lama Pai that I practice. Hook & Uppercut right there & are in forms all over the place.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 21, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Haha i know kung fu people train them Im one myself



okay..... then why did you ask the question?


----------



## qianfeng (Mar 22, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> okay..... then why did you ask the question?


I thought people in the past drilled a lot of forms for training and if they wanted to get better at those basic strikes they would have them in the forms.


----------



## Drose427 (Mar 22, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> I thought people in the past drilled a lot of forms for training and if they wanted to get better at those basic strikes they would have them in the forms.



They are in forms, someome posted a video of a form with many uppercuts


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 22, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> I thought people in the past drilled a lot of forms for training and if they wanted to get better at those basic strikes they would have them in the forms.



Like I said, they are there, and they are there in many forms; Taijiquan, Baguazhang and Xingyiquan too... but there is a lot more to "basics" that a hook and an uppercut


----------



## clfsean (Mar 22, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> I thought people in the past drilled a lot of forms for training and if they wanted to get better at those basic strikes they would have them in the forms.



There was also a lot of fighting at the drop of hat for training. It wasn't all just forms with a sifu sitting in a chair watching & drinking tea. There was copious amounts of contact. That's why we have what we have "now" and you can only guesstimate what fell by the wayside because of a good *** beating or worse.


----------



## 23rdwave (Mar 23, 2015)

In Han Shi Yi Quan we use a natural arm swing. It is in our pi, zuan, beng, pao and heng quan. When utilizing the six directions the "up" is the uppercut.


----------



## qianfeng (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks for the answers


----------



## qianfeng (Mar 23, 2015)

23rdwave said:


> In Han Shi Yi Quan we use a natural arm swing. It is in our pi, zuan, beng, pao and heng quan. When utilizing the six directions the "up" is the uppercut.


i've seen Xing yi Quan, very practical and non-flowery, quick question: Is Xing Yi forms all like Pi Quan, Ben quan.... Just Single movements and not long and choreographed like other styles?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 23, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> i've seen Xing yi Quan, very practical and non-flowery, quick question: Is Xing Yi forms all like Pi Quan, Ben quan.... Just Single movements and not long and choreographed like other styles?



Quick answer...no

You are only talking about the 5 elements fists which are practiced individually and as part of a 5 elements linking fist form where they are all practiced together. However in a fight, they do not come in any order.

There is also a Bashi form in some styles and in all styles there re 12 (or 10 depending on style) animals forms whsich are also practices individually and then latter in a linking form

Basic concept in Xingyi 5 elements fist, but not to be adhered to tightly, because fights don't always flow this way

In Xingyiquan Wu Xing (5 elements) you can classify every attack into one of those elements and counter and classify the counter and then counter and so on and so on.

Attack with wood respond with metal, 
Wood then can changes to fire to counter metal, 
metal change to water to counter fire, 
Fire changes to earth to counter water
Water changes to wood to counter earth 
Earth changes to metal to counter wood
And you are back at the beginning

piquan – splitting fist – metal
zuanquan – drilling fist – water
bengquan –smashing fist – wood
paoquan – pounding fist – fire
hengquan – crossing fist - earth


----------



## Vajramusti (Apr 18, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Hooks and uppercuts are rather common punches so why aren't they common in kung fu forms? Most forms have mostly straight punches.


---------------------------------------------------
You may not have seen them. The wing chun that I do has hooks and upper cuts and other punches. But they are done with  wing chun mechanics - not western boxing mechanics


----------



## JowGaWolf (Aug 4, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Hooks and uppercuts are rather common punches so why aren't they common in kung fu forms? Most forms have mostly straight punches.



I'm not sure at what Kung Fu Style you are looking at but the style that I train in is loaded with them.  The very first form that we learn as beginners has a hook.  The very first punch (before learning to jab) has a hook and an uppercut.  I think Kung Fu is just more deceptive about deploying hooks and uppercuts so you may not realize that one has actually been thrown because it's not thrown in the same way as western boxing (as vajramusti touched on)


----------



## tigercrane (Aug 5, 2015)

Hmmm..Most kung fu styles are divided into two groups: Long Fist (Northern) and Short Fist (Southern). All, but some internal styles use punches, hence many styles are called "Boxing" or "Kuen".

Long fist uses mostly long to mid range fighting. Short fist is typically reserved for close quarters. 

Then, there are many types of punches in kung fu. Some of them are:

- straight punch
- reverse punch
- vertical punch (vertical fist)
- side punches
- hooks and uppercuts, which are not straight punches
- leopard fist
- phoenix eye fist

And the list goes on...

A fist is needed to deliver a punch. You stab with fingers, hit with a palm and punch with a fist.


----------



## Mikeitup (Aug 24, 2015)

Hung gar, hop gar, lama pai, jow gar, Choy li fut, Hung fut, chat sing tong long are just a few that use hooks and uppercuts etc


----------

