# I know it is not festivus, but



## matt.m (Oct 10, 2007)

Look, as bad as the in fighting is in Tae Kwon Do it is 2x worse in hapkido.  It all comes down to lineage this and I learned from so and so.  In an act of diplomacy towards all hapkidoan I say this,"If you didn't think hapkido was the best you would not train in it. And two: If you didn't believe in your instructor then you would not train under their tueteledge."

Just had to get it off my chest.....I mean I am so tired of all the infighting.  I thought hapkido is the way of coordinated power, not the way of uncoordinated bickering.


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## Catalyst (Oct 11, 2007)

matt.m said:


> Look, as bad as the in fighting is in Tae Kwon Do it is 2x worse in hapkido. It all comes down to lineage this and I learned from so and so. In an act of diplomacy towards all hapkidoan I say this,"If you didn't think hapkido was the best you would not train in it. And two: If you didn't believe in your instructor then you would not train under their tueteledge."
> 
> Just had to get it off my chest.....I mean I am so tired of all the infighting. I thought hapkido is the way of coordinated power, not the way of uncoordinated bickering.


 
I agree with Matt's sentiments.

To use an analogy, to me, Hapkido is like pizza.
1.) I don't know who definitively invented pizza, and I don't really care. I do know that I love pizza and would rather spend my time partaking of pizza than arguing who invented it.
2.) There are different types of pizza: New York Thin Crust, Chicago Deep Dish, etc. No one type of pizza is intrinsically better than any other type of pizza. No one type of pizza is "purer" than any other type of pizza. I prefer New York Style pizza, I eat NY Style pizza but that doesn't make Chicago Style Pizza any less worthy of being pizza.

I just don't think you elevate anything you love by disparaging something else.

I believe, when celebrating festivus, that after the airing of grievances, we do feats of strength. Now, back to training, (to prep for the feats of strength).


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## Drac (Oct 11, 2007)

matt.m said:


> Look, as bad as the in fighting is in Tae Kwon Do it is 2x worse in hapkido. ..Just had to get it off my chest.....I mean I am so tired of all the infighting. I thought hapkido is the way of coordinated power, not the way of uncoordinated bickering.


 
Wel said Matt..You wanna hear bickering mention to a tradioional Hapkiodist that I study Combat Hapkido...Its training..Why all the fighting?? It works for me..


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## crushing (Oct 11, 2007)

Drac said:


> Wel said Matt..You wanna hear bickering mention to a tradioional Hapkiodist that I study Combat Hapkido...Its training..Why all the fighting?? It works for me..


 
I hear that Drac!  When I first started training in Combat Hapkido I did some 'googling' of various martial arts forums and found several discussions that weren't just very negative about Combat Hapkido, but really tore into GM P too.

I've stuck with Combat Hapkido because I believe I continue to get something out of it and I really enjoy the hardworking group that I train with.


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## Paul B (Oct 11, 2007)

Meh. 

Hapkido is always gonna have this stuff,guys. Some people love train wrecks.

 Good clean technical discussion? Forget about it..I wanna know that I train in the best Hapkido lineage. So what if I can't actually use it..my wallpaper is fancier than yours.

So umm..yeah..for the record..I would say that I am a "traditional" Hapkidoin..but I don't give a rats furry behind what anyone else studies or from whom they take instruction. 

Do you like it?
Can you use it?

Sweet..See you on the mats.


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## iron_ox (Nov 8, 2007)

matt.m said:


> Look, as bad as the in fighting is in Tae Kwon Do it is 2x worse in hapkido.  It all comes down to lineage this and I learned from so and so.  In an act of diplomacy towards all hapkidoan I say this,"If you didn't think hapkido was the best you would not train in it. And two: If you didn't believe in your instructor then you would not train under their tueteledge."
> 
> Just had to get it off my chest.....I mean I am so tired of all the infighting.  I thought hapkido is the way of coordinated power, not the way of uncoordinated bickering.



Hello all,

I read this a few weeks ago, then the responses and decided to think long and hard over an answer, but first I have more of a question - there is very little discussion, let alone bickering on this forum, so where is the above comment coming from? (Just polite inquiry).  

Moreover, when did caring about the lineage of a fairly misrepresented art become something that should be avoided?  Perhaps technical questions would be easier to get into if people agreed what Hapkido is and where they stand in the hierarchy of the art.

If we are wearing "rank" we acknowledge that rank is essential to the way we progress and transmit the art (a component anyway) - then why is the same importance of rank not applied to those that are more senior in the art?  

I do find it odd that most, if not all martial arts have a definitive hierarchy that is followed - even if there is an art that is hundreds of years old, the hierarchy is still there.  Hapkido is only 60 years old this year!  We know the man that started it all, and we know where and how he ranked those that were his students.  

I sincerely believe that much of this concern over discussing lineage is borne from concern that what someone has been told is false...but I don't know.  Why are Hapkidoin so AFRAID of lineage?  Why do these types of discussions lead to "I'm better than you..." diatribes?  Lineage should be cut and dry.  It has no relevance to what one is learning, per se, but it does establish a position where discussion of technical issues might be more possible...

In addition, I also think the time has come to talk lineage because the art of Hapkido is being used as a catch-all for lots of stuff that is not part of the art.  There have been several arts based on Hapkido, that are not Hapkido, and I find this very problematic from the perspective of a Hapkido teacher.

OK, rant over, lots of avenues open to discuss here...


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## matt.m (Nov 21, 2007)

Kevin,

I agree.  To explain, we have a Kuk Sool Won J.R. West Hapkido student in our Moo Sul Kwan Class.  His hapkido style is different even though J.R. West and He-Young Kimm worked together to the point of Kimm practically being West's teacher.

Now the confusing part of the scenerio, Kimm and MSK's GGM Park learned Judo together and Lee taught him hapkido, Moo Sul Kwan.  Anyway, GM Hildebrand and He Young Kimm were for lack of better terms white belts together.

It is no secret what Kimm did in concern with Kuk Sool Won.  I will say this though, GM Hildebrand has said that "What you are showing me actually looks the most like hapkido than what most people I have seen pass off as hapkido." to the dan in West's Hapkido.

I have worked with him several times, so it is very much a tit for tat.......I like the guy as a training partner.


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## Butch (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm not Hapkidoin but one of my students is and when I show him something he'll say that we have learn that in Hapkido but in a different way. Now I teach TSD and in our one-steps we do Hapkido like moves and I'm glad when he tells me this because I know I'm at least getting something rigtht!


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## Jai (Nov 21, 2007)

I also am very curious as to where this first came from. Yes sometimes one form of a style will rib on another, but I have seen very little outright bashing going on. If give my personal feelings on any form of MA, I have background to support my words, and even then I try not to straight run anything into the dirt. 

In all forms of MA there will never be one clear cut way to teach or practice anything. That is for sure, and there will always be those out there with the attitude that their way is better. The best we can do is ignore it and go on with what our instructors, masters, and grandmasters teach us.


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## matt.m (Dec 18, 2007)

I guess a lot of it comes down to "Can you follow your Master's Linage to Choi or one of his first students......I.E. Ji, Han Jae or Won, Kwang Wha, Bong Soo Han etc.

The reason I suppose I started this post to begin with is that I have seen too many tae kwon do schools that "Teach" Hapkido and well, not to flame baste but if what I saw was hapkido then I can teach crane style kung fu.

Just a thought.  I know 90 % of schools are good with intention.  Yet the ones that aren't so good in intention but sure do like the money are too easy to find.

Again, Just a thought.  Plus it isn't hapkido alone.....I am just using it as an example......pick any art and you will find the same thing.


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