# Flag patch on uniform?



## tsdclaflin (Feb 21, 2005)

"The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations."

How do people feel about USA flag patches on karate uniforms?  

My gup uniform had a US flag patch (as well as a Korean flag) on it.  My black-trimmed black belt uniform did not come with flags.  I recently realized that a flag patch is apparently a violation of the federal guidelines for use and display of the flag.

Hmmmm......


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## Ray (Feb 21, 2005)

I see the information that you quoted on flag.org as 1993 law.  When I look at title 36 on Cornel's website, I don't find that verbiage.

I recently put a flag patch on my uniform shoulder.  I did it out of respect.  If it is illegal, then I guess I'd better remove it - but I can't find a current citation that says it is.

Neither version of Title 36 specifies any punishment that I can see.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sup_01_36.html


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## bignick (Feb 21, 2005)

I believe the flag code is just a guideline.   Just like the flag is not supposed to be used on t-shirts and such.  No actual punishments, just not what is considered proper "etiquette" according to those statues...maybe someone else has more info.


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## tsdclaflin (Feb 21, 2005)

You are correct....it is a guidleline for proper etiquette.  

So do we ignore it or respect it????

Just curious what others think...I actually thought it was cool to have the flag patches (USA & Korean) on my uniform.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2005)

Well, 

If Flag Burning is supposed to be acceptable, I suppose a patch on a uniform should be.


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## Paul B (Feb 21, 2005)

Hate patches....hate them...No patches....ever...on anything....... except ripped jeans or something,not glorified underwear....... :barf: OK I feel better now. *goes back to lurking in the shadows*


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

There are rules for properly displaying the flag. 

There is also a right to freedom of speech. Flag burning has been ruled as an expression of free speech.

If someone was so appalled that the Congress abdicated their responsibility to declare war before the United States invaded a sovreign nation, they felt moved to show an extreme amount of disrespect to the country, burning the countries flag might be an appropriate way to do that.

Of course, if someone wanted to show a level of respect and pridefor the Country, they might display the flag in accord with guidelines set out by civics experts. 

I think a flag on a uniform is appropriate (military, police, para-military). I think uniforms on work out gear is in appropriate.


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## Blind (Feb 21, 2005)

Paul B said:
			
		

> Hate patches....hate them...No patches....ever...on anything....... except ripped jeans or something,not glorified underwear....... :barf: OK I feel better now. *goes back to lurking in the shadows*


You have my vote, if it is important to say where you are from then write it on your belt I think(but I don't really go in for that either).


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2005)

Hmm.

So Burning the Flag is Free Speech, but wearing it is not.

Hmmm.


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> So Burning the Flag is Free Speech, but wearing it is not.


Who said that ... ?

Of course 'wearing the flag' on a work out uniform is protected as free speech. But, that doesn't make it polite. 

The flag is not supposed to touch the ground. While studying karate, you should be taken to the ground at least occassionally. 

Of course, I can't think of more impressive way to show pride and respect for my country than to work up a good sweat on one of its most important symbols.

To each, his own, I guess.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> The flag is not supposed to touch the ground.


Well, in theory its not supposed to be burned in protest either...



I would THINK burning the Flag in protest, or in anger, or whatever, is just as bad as sweating on it.

But like you said, To each, his own.


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## michaeledward (Feb 21, 2005)

Think about the word 'protest'. It carries a lot of meaning in it.

So are you arguing that we should restrict burning the flag as an expression of free speech.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Think about the word 'protest'. It carries a lot of meaning in it.
> 
> So are you arguing that we should restrict burning the flag as an expression of free speech.


Nope.  I could care less about that, actually... Just comparing it, in terms of "respect" for the flag.


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 21, 2005)

I have one on some of my uniforms. I put in my time in the milatary and I support our troops  where ever they are. 
If watching my friends go into combat, some of which never returned, or watching the youth of today go into combat, and not showing a little support for them in a small way by proudly wearing the flag is wrong then I choose to be wrong in this instance.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 21, 2005)

Speaking of flags, somebody help me out.

As a kid, I always saw the flag displayed (including on karate patches) with the filed of starts in the upper left hand corner (viewers left).  In Bruxelles, at the SHAPE HQ and EU/EC HQ, it has always hung with the field of stars to the viewer right. Any one have a reference for the differences, and why that might be?

I heard one strain of logic that the upper right version was the correct version, and so to avoid defiling the proper form of the image, shirts, hats, patches, etc., are made with the field in the upper left.

Curious and ignorant all in one swell foop,

D.


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## Tgace (Feb 21, 2005)

The flags on all the uniforms I have worn have gotten dragged through a lot of **** over the years. Its the fact that its a symbol and the respect afforded it that matters.


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## TigerWoman (Feb 21, 2005)

I thought flags were supposed to be taken down at dusk too but I see everyone leaves them up--probably don't know how to fold them either or that when they get old they are supposed to be burned not thrown away or that when holes or tears occur, that's when you retire a flag.  

I don't think sweat is going to get into that patch on the shoulder.  What about rain on the flag on your house? And I doubt it will touch the floor in TKD much if ever but its not a flag flag, its a flag emblem patch.  I think it is a patriotic way to show respect to our country instead of Korea's flag. We are in martial arts, which is military in origin just not the military of our country.  We bow to the flag each class but we used to bow to the Korean flag too.  That bothered me. I'm glad we don't do that anymore.  But if its not respectful in the eyes of our servicemen, I won't wear the flag on my shoulder.  Don't anyway. TW


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## Ping898 (Feb 21, 2005)

I kind of figure having it on the uniform or even flying it in your yard is just a person's way of showing pride in where they live.  Even if people don't do it the right way, like taking it down at night or putting it on a uniform where it may not belong, it is kewl long as they aren;t looking to disrespect the flag or the country it belongs too.
In my class we bow to the US flag in a corner.  No other flags though.


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## Tgace (Feb 21, 2005)

Flag can stay up 24hrs as long as its illuminated.


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## michaeledward (Feb 22, 2005)

The information on this web page probably has the answer, although it is a bit dry to read.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html


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## Cryozombie (Feb 22, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Flag can stay up 24hrs as long as its illuminated.


 The Moon and Stars are Illumination!


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## TonyM. (Feb 22, 2005)

That humans make laws and rules about flags gives me zero confidense this species will survive.


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## Kenpodoc (Feb 22, 2005)

when I was a kid I remember adults getting upset with flag patches on jeans. Now I see people driving through the dark and rain with shredded flags on their cars and they think they are demonstrating their patriotism.  It gets a little silly.  Patches on uniforms are fine if you wear them out of genuine respect.  I personally have problems with Americans wearing Japanese or Korean flags but it's not a crime it's a choice.

Jeff


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## Pacificshore (Feb 23, 2005)

Heck, besides our school patches, I wear the flag emblem of my place of birth, and no it isn't the US flag.  It would be equivalent to a State flag :asian:


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