# Thrusting Salute



## MJS (Oct 11, 2006)

Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.


1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick. 

2. Step your right foot to 4:30 into a left neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right inward downward block (palm up) followed by a left downward block to your attacker's right leg. 

3. Immediately execute a right step-through front kick to your attacker's groin as your left hand raises as a check. 

4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right palm strike to your attacker's chin. 

5. Cross out towards 4:30.


Another technique for discussion.  Variations, differences..lets here 'em folks! :ultracool 

Mike


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## HKphooey (Oct 11, 2006)

Mike,

I no longer use the initial right inward downward block.  Not sure if it is becasue of my height, but it used to bring my head to close to the opponent (the kick is too low on me).  I put my right hand in a guard positon in case (universal block) of a right or left punch.  The rest is the same.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Oct 11, 2006)

MJS said:


> Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.
> 
> 
> 1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick.
> ...


 
1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much.  It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right.

2) left hand is taught to specifically circle from inside out when raising as a check to open the centerline if a right hand comes in after the kick.

Opponent Counter#1 - Opponent follows up with the right hand either in a linear fashion or as a hook.  The left hand addresses the punch from the inside, proceed as planned

Opponent Counter#2 - Opponent follows up with a left linear punch.  Our left picks up their left on the outside and the heel palm does a glancing check into the palm(like Glancing Spear but off of the arm instead of the shoulder).  Follow up with any right leg forward technique for outside of the left hand. I prefer to use Gripping Talon as we are inside the left leg.

Opponent Counter#3 - Opponent throws a circular left.  Our left brushes their left over our right shoulder while we still deliver the palm heel (our right shoulder will guard our head like a boxer throwing a right jab).  Retreact the right hand into a high check while delivering a left outward handsword to the neck.  Follow up with moves such as snapping Twig, Shielding Hammer, Five Swords, etc.

Opponent Counter #4 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects the heel palm over their left shoulder with their right hand.  Blast a left reverse punch to the face (with glancing check) and continue with five swords from the uppercut

Opponent Counter#5 - opponent checks the kick down and uses their right to deflect our palm over their right shoulder.  Convert the right palm to a right inward elbow, move the left foot up the circle and proceed with the gift of destruction extension or swinging pendulum or unfurling crane, etc.

Opponent Counter#6 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects the palm over their right shoulder with the left hand. Execute a rolling trapping right back knuckle with our left hand trapping their left arm down like in the motion of raining claw, unfurling crane or the third set in Long 2. follow up with any move outside the left where we have a hold of/check on their left arm such as gripping talon or a modified circling destruction since we are inside their left leg.

Opponent counter#7 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects our palm over thier left shoulder with the left hand. Circle the right hand and execute a chopping hammer to the opponent's floating ribs (as in striking set#1 or Twirling hammers. Followed up with a left outward handsword to the neck on a quarter beat as their head crumps in and the right hand rechambers to the right hip. BLAST them with five swords starting with the uppercut.


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## JamesB (Oct 11, 2006)

ok you asked for it!!  

some minor comments inline with your bullet-points:



MJS said:


> Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.
> 
> 1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick.
> 
> 2. Step your right foot to 4:30 into a left neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right inward downward block (palm up) followed by a left downward block to your attacker's right leg.


 
this is a very personal thing and results from how I learn new material, but I've always found this type of description rather ambiguous and therefore difficult for me to understand. When, and from what stance, do you execute the first 'inward-downward' block? Do you execute both blocks from neutral? Because I'm thinking the inside-downward block doesn't have much 'reach' when executed from neutral this way.



			
				MJS said:
			
		

> 3. Immediately execute a right step-through front kick to your attacker's groin as your left hand raises as a check.


 
what are you checking with your left hand? Could we reasonably expect that after a kick to the groin, the attacker's legs would be brought sharply together, and his hands moved down to protect the groin?



MJSAnother technique for discussion. Variations said:


> I've been taught slightly differently, although the general theme of the technique is the same.
> 
> 1. Pivot hips and step directly back to 5 O'clock into a left forward-bow, with a right inside-downward palm-up block, and a left slap-check to the right shoulder. Forward bow provides more 'reach' here for this type of block. The block now becomes a major move in the technique, and is very quick to execute as the hands (by your sides) are ideally placed to start with.
> 
> ...


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## teej (Oct 11, 2006)

HKphooey said:


> Mike,
> 
> I no longer use the initial right inward downward block. Not sure if it is becasue of my height, but it used to bring my head to close to the opponent (the kick is too low on me). I put my right hand in a guard positon in case (universal block) of a right or left punch. The rest is the same.


 
If you are tall and bending to reach for a kick you are breaking your waist forward and you do not want to do that. If the kick is too low it is either not a threat or you would have to do something else. This technique is for a committed front thrust kick which is atleast to belt level or higher. If the kick is lower, this is not the technique for that attack. Make sure attacking students are kicking at least to groining level or higher. 

I teach the right inside downward as a "what if" block. "What if" the kick is quicker than I and it starts to get inside before the left outside downward block connects? The right block is a pick up block. This block DOES NOT have to make contact. The left outside downward block does, so do not bend trying to reach with the right inside downward block.  

quote from kenpojujuistu3 "1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much. It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right."

The attacker shouldn't get that close unless you are waiting there trying to make contact with right block. Your initial step back is to create distance. You should not be too close. Like I mentioned, the right block does not have to make contact. One of the reasons it is there is "just in case".

Teej


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Oct 11, 2006)

teej said:


> quote from kenpojujuistu3 "1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much. It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right."
> 
> *The attacker shouldn't get that close unless you are waiting there trying to make contact with right block. Your initial step back is to create distance. You should not be too close. Like I mentioned, the right block does not have to make contact. One of the reasons it is there is "just in case".*
> 
> Teej


 
*Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much.*  Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.


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## HKphooey (Oct 11, 2006)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> *Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much.* Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.


 
Lol!!!!  

That is why I do not use it.  

Teej,

For me I am more concerned with their other weapons (their hands). Do my "just in case" is more for the possible punches. The stepping back is enough for me to protect my groin.  Thanks for your feedback.


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## teej (Oct 11, 2006)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> *Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much.* Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.


 
lol  Well if he is that tall and is concerned with their hands, can hands reach him?  I hope he also considers possible head butts to his groin.   Do you change your inward elbow to an inward overhead elbow? [this is a joke for those of you not reading the entire thread.]

Teej


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## HKphooey (Oct 11, 2006)

:rofl:...


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Oct 11, 2006)

teej said:


> lol Well if he is that tall and is concerned with their hands, can hands reach him? I hope he also considers possible head butts to his groin.  Do you change your inward elbow to an inward overhead elbow? [this is a joke for those of you not reading the entire thread.]
> 
> Teej


 
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roflmao: :rofl:


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## Arizona Angel (Oct 11, 2006)

I have a hard time landing a good kick.  I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin.  I am probabley doing something wrong.  I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.


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## MattJ (Oct 11, 2006)

Arizona Angel said:


> I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.


 
?????

Behind the attacker? Either they are REALLY committing to the attack, or perhaps you are going more too far to the side as opposed to back and to the side.

Ideally, your front kick to the groin should be hitting slightly before their kicking foot lands on the ground. Perhaps it is a timing issue.


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## DavidCC (Oct 11, 2006)

This is one of the few techniques I learned under Doc Chapel. So I have a yellow belt's understanding of it for what that is worth 

Out of all the SL4 techs I've seen discussed, this one seems to be the most similar to the "regular" kenpo version.  Some differences I notice are:

The initial footwork is to step the right foot to 4:30, into a forward bow facing 1030.  This turns the hips counterclockwise and allows the right hand palm-up block to have more range and be much more powerful.  the initial block is delivered with the left BAM at the right shoulder, the left hand then ricochets into the second downard block.

After the left blocks, the SL4 technique does someting different.  The left hand is raised up, arm straight, horizontal, palm down fist, stuck right into their face at 1030.  From working this at my school I think this is a very effective depth check!  It is a bit weird but it has a definite effect.  

As you deliver the kick to the groin the right hand braces behind the left fist, as you bend the left elbow, bringing the fist towards you, staying horizontal and palm down.  Sortof like the salute (but mirror image).  The right hand is open, fingers up, the palm braced agasint the thumb and index finger. 

With the kick the weight moves forward behind it, and as you step down into a right (modified) forward bow, you strike to the chin with the right palm heel while pivoting into right neutral bow (and left BAM at right shoulder too).  So you get body mass momentum and hip torque and counter-resistance all adding to the strike.  LIGHTS OUT


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## MJS (Oct 11, 2006)

JamesB said:


> ok you asked for it!!
> 
> some minor comments inline with your bullet-points:
> 
> ...


 
Just for clarification:  I took this breakdown of the technique from KT.  This is not necessarily how I perform the technique.  If we look at this link from Mr. Billings site, the technique is done without the inward-downward block.
http://www.kenpo-texas.com/techorng.html

I perform this tech. without that block, due to the fact that I don't want to risk the kick getting that close, just to do that block, when IMO, the left downward block should be good enough.  To answer your question though, I'd say that if one was going to do the inward-downward, that it would start as you're stepping back from a neutral position.





> what are you checking with your left hand? Could we reasonably expect that after a kick to the groin, the attacker's legs would be brought sharply together, and his hands moved down to protect the groin?


 
A possible punch.  






> I've been taught slightly differently, although the general theme of the technique is the same.
> 
> 1. Pivot hips and step directly back to 5 O'clock into a left forward-bow, with a right inside-downward palm-up block, and a left slap-check to the right shoulder. Forward bow provides more 'reach' here for this type of block. The block now becomes a major move in the technique, and is very quick to execute as the hands (by your sides) are ideally placed to start with.
> 
> ...


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## MJS (Oct 11, 2006)

Arizona Angel said:


> I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.


 
I'm a bit confused by this.  Not quite sure how you're ending up behind the attacker?


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## JamesB (Oct 11, 2006)

MJS said:


> Just for clarification: I took this breakdown of the technique from KT. This is not necessarily how I perform the technique. If we look at this link from Mr. Billings site, the technique is done without the inward-downward block.
> http://www.kenpo-texas.com/techorng.html


 
I was pretty sure you were just copy+pasting from somewhere else but thanks for clarifying 



			
				MJS said:
			
		

> I perform this tech. without that block, due to the fact that I don't want to risk the kick getting that close, just to do that block, when IMO, the left downward block should be good enough. To answer your question though, I'd say that if one was going to do the inward-downward, that it would start as you're stepping back from a neutral position.


 
I this is just a minor difference in our techniques - I've got a foward-bow as my first 'stance', so this makes the inward-downard-block viable. Stepping out directly to neutral means the emphasis is on the left-downward block instead. no biggie, I can see the benefit of both methods...

I then asked: 'what are you checking'? and you said:


			
				MJS said:
			
		

> A possible punch.


 
understood now - thanks!

james



[/quote]


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## JamesB (Oct 11, 2006)

Arizona Angel said:
			
		

> I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.


 


MJS said:


> I'm a bit confused by this. Not quite sure how you're ending up behind the attacker?


 
I'd guess that Buckling-branch + Thrusting Salute are getting mixed up here? In that case I would say that being too far behind the attacker can be rectified by taking a simple step forwards with the left foot, elongating the base, before executing the kick..?


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## JamesB (Oct 11, 2006)

DavidCC said:


> This is one of the few techniques I learned under Doc Chapel. So I have a yellow belt's understanding of it for what that is worth
> 
> Out of all the SL4 techs I've seen discussed, this one seems to be the most similar to the "regular" kenpo version. Some differences I notice are:
> 
> ...


 
swwweeeeeeeeeeet!


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## Arizona Angel (Oct 11, 2006)

I end up in the wrong place because I am just learning this stuff and I am shuffling my feet instead of firmly stepping into the correct bows.  Give me a couple more weeks of practice and I will land it better and I will look back at this post wonder how in the world I can't land right.  Same problem with Attacking Mace.


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## MJS (Oct 12, 2006)

JamesB said:


> I was pretty sure you were just copy+pasting from somewhere else but thanks for clarifying


 






> I this is just a minor difference in our techniques - I've got a foward-bow as my first 'stance', so this makes the inward-downard-block viable. Stepping out directly to neutral means the emphasis is on the left-downward block instead. no biggie, I can see the benefit of both methods...


 
Yes, I can see a difference using the forward bow.  

Mike


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## MJS (Oct 12, 2006)

Arizona Angel said:


> I end up in the wrong place because I am just learning this stuff and I am shuffling my feet instead of firmly stepping into the correct bows. Give me a couple more weeks of practice and I will land it better and I will look back at this post wonder how in the world I can't land right. Same problem with Attacking Mace.


 
No problem.   Keep up the hard work and try not to get too frustrated.  We were all there at one time.  It'll be second nature before you know it!!:ultracool   Feel free to ask any questions you have! 

Mike


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## hongkongfooey (Oct 12, 2006)

Arizona Angel said:


> I end up in the wrong place because I am just learning this stuff and I am shuffling my feet instead of firmly stepping into the correct bows. Give me a couple more weeks of practice and I will land it better and I will look back at this post wonder how in the world I can't land right. Same problem with Attacking Mace.


 

Try doing your techniques slow for a while, take your time to feel the movement.


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## Hand Sword (Nov 8, 2006)

Anyone try to do this technique with a padded up defender, for a touch of realism? If so, did anyone have trouble landing a heel palm strike? A kick to the groin causes an attacker to bend forward, and move back, slightly. Does anyone hit the top of the head, because their  bend is too fast? A slight distance problem created? Or, do you use your left to brace them up, in order to land the right palm to the face/jaw?


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## MJS (Nov 8, 2006)

Hand Sword said:


> Anyone try to do this technique with a padded up defender, for a touch of realism? If so, did anyone have trouble landing a heel palm strike? A kick to the groin causes an attacker to bend forward, and move back, slightly. Does anyone hit the top of the head, because their bend is too fast? A slight distance problem created? Or, do you use your left to brace them up, in order to land the right palm to the face/jaw?


 
I havent worked this padded, but I think this is a good point.  I think its important to look at the 'what if' in all of the techniques.  If the opponent moves back far enough where we can't reach with the hands, a follow up kick with our other leg is a possible option.  As for the palm strike...depending on how far they bend, we could to a rising elbow or if they're bent further, check the head with the left and do a downward elbow with the right.

Mike


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 8, 2006)

A neat variation is to launch way back and round house kick his kicking foot and watch him spin like a top.... Fun for the whole family.


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## Bode (Nov 8, 2006)

Hand Sword said:


> Anyone try to do this technique with a padded up defender, for a touch of realism? If so, did anyone have trouble landing a heel palm strike? A kick to the groin causes an attacker to bend forward, and move back, slightly. Does anyone hit the top of the head, because their  bend is too fast? A slight distance problem created? Or, do you use your left to brace them up, in order to land the right palm to the face/jaw?



The realistic reactions of the attacker should be present in every single technique regardless of wearing pads or not. As much as it is our responsibility to understand the defense, we should understand the attackers actions and reactions.

The action of the attacker bending forward and moving slightly back, with the chin up, creates the perfect target for the heal palm. (Nerve clusters on either side of the forehead, just don't mess up and try to punch him there). 

I think I see where you were going. That the attackers chin would be down and your target obscured for the heal palm. Not likely, the attackers chin remains up, try it for yourself. I've been padded up and kicked. Your hips move back, along with a shuffle of your feet, and your head stay UP.


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## bushidomartialarts (Nov 8, 2006)

MJS said:


> 5. Cross out towards 4:30.



As with other techniques, I discourage covering out to any particular direction.  Thing is, if you practice to one direction every time....well, Murphy will see to it that when you use it, there's gonna something ugly in that direction.

I have my students vary their covers.


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## Hand Sword (Nov 8, 2006)

MJS said:


> I havent worked this padded, but I think this is a good point. I think its important to look at the 'what if' in all of the techniques. If the opponent moves back far enough where we can't reach with the hands, a follow up kick with our other leg is a possible option. As for the palm strike...depending on how far they bend, we could to a rising elbow or if they're bent further, check the head with the left and do a downward elbow with the right.
> 
> Mike


 

Good stuff! I was just wondering about using the technique as is taught.


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## Hand Sword (Nov 8, 2006)

Bode said:


> The realistic reactions of the attacker should be present in every single technique regardless of wearing pads or not. As much as it is our responsibility to understand the defense, we should understand the attackers actions and reactions.
> 
> The action of the attacker bending forward and moving slightly back, with the chin up, creates the perfect target for the heal palm. (Nerve clusters on either side of the forehead, just don't mess up and try to punch him there).
> 
> I think I see where you were going. That the attackers chin would be down and your target obscured for the heal palm. Not likely, the attackers chin remains up, try it for yourself. I've been padded up and kicked. Your hips move back, along with a shuffle of your feet, and your head stay UP.


 
  I agree with all that you said. It was just under the circumstances that I saw the technique used as was taught, there was problems due to how they respond. The kick caused more distance, and there was a bend (from the blow, or from an instinctive, defensive movement on their part. It was that bending/angling away,  that determined a succesful heel palm, to being...jammed up (?)


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## OneKickWonder (Dec 13, 2006)

I have been taught completely different than most replies. 

The biggest difference is instead of stepping back to 430 or 5 I pushdrag forward to the 130 or 2 simultaneously executing the left downward block. It is almost a mirror to Deflecting Hammer at first. This allows you to redirect motion and be close enough to deliver that devastating kick to the groin. A variation to that is when you pushdrag try to stop in a cat stance to allow for a faster kick.


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