# JKD/Jun Fan/Concepts? Bruce Lee himself?



## OldManJim (Aug 20, 2021)

Ok so this might be a pretty lengthy thread but here goes. So my Aikido dojo shut down and Im not sure exactly what I’m going to do now. There is a school near me that has the followin:
The instructor is ranked by Erik Paulson as a CSW teacher
He is also ranked by the Machado’s as a purple belt.  
He teaches MT and 
he is ranked the following in what he told me once is the “Concepts” lineage:
Dan Inosanto>Ron Balicki>this instructor 
This instructor also teaches Kali/Escrima. 
Here’s my questions:
1. What is the deal with JKD, JKD CONCEPTS, JUN FAN GUNG FU? Why all the names?
2. I’ve read a whole bunch of books on Bruce, some good, some bad, some knowledgeable. Was he really that good to be considered such a legend? I mean was he really that good a martial artist or was some of it movie hype? I’m not meaning to offend, I’m just genuinely curious.  
3. Is the JKD this instructor teaching, from what I understand he is highly regarded, worth taking for self defense purpose. I don’t go looking for fights but would it be useful if you had to protect yourself or family?
just generally curious about it all.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 20, 2021)

OldManJim said:


> 1. What is the deal with JKD, JKD CONCEPTS, JUN FAN GUNG FU? Why all the names?


JKD > what Bruce Lee taught, think Jerry Poteet 
JKD Concepts > What Bruce Lee said (The Philosophy of JKD), think Dan Inosanto
Jun Fan Gung Fu > Bruce Lee's style he had before JKD

Note Concepts under Dan Inosanto; The first learn what Bruce Lee Taught and go from there


OldManJim said:


> 2. I’ve read a whole bunch of books on Bruce, some good, some bad, some knowledgeable. Was he really that good to be considered such a legend? I mean was he really that good a martial artist or was some of it movie hype? I’m not meaning to offend, I’m just genuinely curious.



Those that new him and trained with him, not all students of his, say he was very good



OldManJim said:


> 3. Is the JKD this instructor teaching, from what I understand he is highly regarded, worth taking for self defense purpose. I don’t go looking for fights but would it be useful if you had to protect yourself or family?
> just generally curious about it all.



I have trained (Very briefly) with 3 JKD teachers, (2 what Bruce taught, 1 concepts) and all seemed to be pretty darn good fighters to me

There were some very knowledgeable JKD folks on MT a while back (I am not one of them) but they have not been here for a while. There may be a couple here now that train it regularly, I don't really know. They could probably better answer your questoins


----------



## Buka (Aug 21, 2021)

OldManJim said:


> Ok so this might be a pretty lengthy thread but here goes. So my Aikido dojo shut down and Im not sure exactly what I’m going to do now. There is a school near me that has the followin:
> The instructor is ranked by Erik Paulson as a CSW teacher
> He is also ranked by the Machado’s as a purple belt.
> He teaches MT and
> ...


I think what should be kept in mind was the state of Martial Arts, especially in the United States, in the few years that Bruce Lee was at the top of his game.

I know, or knew before they passed, a bunch of guys that trained at one time or another with Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee was not their teacher. And these guys were well known, serious Martial beasts in their own right.

They all said he was really good, innovating, and could hit like a son of a B for a man that size.


----------



## Koryuhoka (Aug 21, 2021)

OldManJim said:


> Ok so this might be a pretty lengthy thread but here goes. So my Aikido dojo shut down and Im not sure exactly what I’m going to do now. There is a school near me that has the followin:
> The instructor is ranked by Erik Paulson as a CSW teacher
> He is also ranked by the Machado’s as a purple belt.
> He teaches MT and
> ...


Your best bet is to go on Google maps and type in your zipcode and terms like "aikido" or "martial arts"... words associated with what would interest you. make a list of what you like and check them out. Ask them if you can view a class or take a complementary/introductory class... if things like that are even possible these days. Ask someone with extensive experience if they are familiar with any particular school and get their opinion. Post them here and maybe someone may know about them. You never know.


----------



## punisher73 (Aug 22, 2021)

OldManJim said:


> Ok so this might be a pretty lengthy thread but here goes. So my Aikido dojo shut down and Im not sure exactly what I’m going to do now. There is a school near me that has the followin:
> The instructor is ranked by Erik Paulson as a CSW teacher
> He is also ranked by the Machado’s as a purple belt.
> He teaches MT and
> ...



It is a lengthy answer, but I'll try to summarize based on what I have come across researching things through the years.

To answer question #1, I will post a direct quote from Dan Inosanto:

_“While Bruce Lee was alive, there were only three individuals who were ever certified and authorized by him to teach the art of Jeet Kune Do. The highest-ranked instructor ever certified by Bruce Lee is Taky Kimura, who attained the level of fifth rank and is my senior. The only other instructors certified by Bruce Lee were the late James Lee and myself. Both James Lee and I were awarded third rank.

The most senior advanced student at this time was Ted Wong, a classmate of mine and a private, personal student of Bruce Lee, who attained the level of second rank in Jeet Kune Do. Most other students at this time were ranked in Jun Fan Gung-Fu, not Jeet Kune Do. Ted Wong was one of the few people to have achieved rank in Jeet Kune Do under Bruce.  You could receive a Jun Fan Gung-Fu certificate by training in a small group session, class session or private session under Bruce Lee, Taky Kimura, James Lee or myself. But to receive the Tao of Chinese Gung-Fu certificate or the Jeet Kune Do certificate, you had to be personally trained under Bruce Lee on a one-on-one basis. Only Bruce Lee could give this certificate in Jeet Kune Do.  

That is why I have never given a JKD ranking certificate to anyone to this day. If everyone in the JKD clan would read his certificate, you will see it reads Jun Fan Gung-Fu, Jun Fan Martial Arts or Jun Fan Martial Arts (Jeet Kune Do Concepts).  A Jeet Kune Do certificate means you trained with Bruce Lee on a one-to-one basis. He reserved the right for himself; only he could give a certificate in Jeet Kune Do. Since Bruce died I cannot issue a certificate in Jeet kune Do, but I can issue a Jun Fan Gung-Fu certificate and pass on the concepts and principles that he gave me. In honor and memory of Bruce Lee I still have a Jeet Kune Do family and clan tree, which teaches the Jun Fan Gung-Fu and Jeet Kune Do concepts.”_

So, in summary: 

Jeet Kune Do:  If legitimate, trained with either Taky Kimura or James Lee and should be able to trace a direct lineage back to one of those two.

Jeet Kune Do Concepts:  If legitimate, trained with Dan Inosanto and should be able to trace a direct lineage back to him.  Out of respect for the title of "Jeet Kune Do", Dan Inosanto has NEVER ceritified an instrutor in "JKD" (see above statement) and has used the term JKD Concepts instead.

Jun Fan Gung Fu:  "Jun Fan" was Bruce Lee's birth name.  It was his "style" that was taught before he moved on to his development of JKD.  JKD is more conceptual in nature and Jun Fan can be thought of as Bruce's physical vehicle to express those ideas and concepts (I know there is more to it than that, but a quick easy way to kind of understand it).  Jun Fan has a "set" curriculum and progression for students to learn.

To answer #2:

Opinions vary.  IMHO Bruce Lee was an amazing athlete and had amazing speed and reflexes.  This transferred into being a great martial artist.  I also think that his ideas inspired a lot of people and they were able to take things away from their time with Bruce Lee to be much better martial artists (Mike Stone, Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis for example).  I think, for me, the biggest objection is when Bruce Lee is talked about as a great fighter when he didn't fight in anything (boxing match while in high school and the fight with Wong Jack Man with conflicting stories about what really happened and references to a lot of various "street fights").  There are a lot of people who claim/think that Bruce Lee would have beat any pro fighter out there past or present and to that there is no proof of how well he would have done against a professional fighter.

To answer #3:

Only you can decide that.  With his background, he sounds like he would be a great knowledgeable instructor.  BUT, does the teaching fit with your personality and needs?  I would ask to watch/participate in a class and ask him what his main focus of teaching is on.  Some teachers talk about self-defense and how to apply it in that manner (along with laws, de-escalation, awareness etc) and others teach geared for competition and don't cover the other aspects of what you may be looking for.  BUT, the physical skills you would be learning would be very much worthwhile to learn effectively.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Aug 22, 2021)

OldManJim said:


> Was he really that good to be considered such a legend? I mean was he really that good a martial artist or was some of it movie hype? I’m not meaning to offend, I’m just genuinely curious.



The hype came after he made the movies, but to make the movies at all he had to convince quite a few people with money that he could, and so he did.

His personal style of Jun Fan is based on childhood exposure to southern Shaolin animal styles.  Jeet Kune Do is his adult retrospective on all that, with a dash of philosophy all-spice.  It's all very Dao.


----------



## Mider (Aug 30, 2021)

many student of Lee’s teaches different things. Ted Wong, Tim Tackett, Dan Inosanto, etc. the concepts stuff is Dan Inosanto‘s school of JKD. Escrima can be good depending on the teacher and Eric Paulsons CSW is really great stuff


----------



## Buka (Sep 2, 2021)

One of my old black belts trained JKD concepts under Richard Bastillo for many years. Mister Bastillo was a student of Lee's and a training partner of Dan Inosanto.


----------



## NYFIGHTSOURCE (Sep 3, 2021)

Mider said:


> many student of Lee’s teaches different things. Ted Wong, Tim Tackett, Dan Inosanto, etc. the concepts stuff is Dan Inosanto‘s school of JKD. Escrima can be good depending on the teacher and Eric Paulsons CSW is really great stuff


I got to train along side these gentleman.   All are awesome to train with.   Ted Wong passed... amazing footwork.   Eric is great.   Tim doesn't teach as much.  More of his students from his garage.   Great group.


----------



## Mider (Sep 3, 2021)

NYFIGHTSOURCE said:


> I got to train along side these gentleman.   All are awesome to train with.   Ted Wong passed... amazing footwork.   Eric is great.   Tim doesn't teach as much.  More of his students from his garage.   Great group.


Yeah, I’ve heard the WDK JKD Group is great, a lot of devastating stuff for the streets. Ted Wong also great as is Guru Inosanto


----------



## Jut (Sep 12, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> The hype came after he made the movies, but to make the movies at all he had to convince quite a few people with money that he could, and so he did.
> 
> His personal style of Jun Fan is based on childhood exposure to southern Shaolin animal styles.  Jeet Kune Do is his adult retrospective on all that, with a dash of philosophy all-spice.  It's all very Dao.


This is just your _opinion. _Nothing you said is true. I guess being ignorant about this subject doesn't bother you, as long as you can argue.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Sep 12, 2021)

Jut said:


> This is just your _opinion. _Nothing you said is true. I guess being ignorant about this subject doesn't bother you, as long as you can argue.


Don't get philosophical with me, R2.

Are you arguing that Bruce Lee was not a scion of Southern Shaolin Chinese martial arts at the time of his grand exposure to the West?

If not, then what inspired him to write so much about so many different arts and how important it was to combine and mash and evolve, at one with the nature of violence?  The Renaissance?


----------



## ProgrammerPoe (Sep 13, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> Don't get philosophical with me, R2.
> 
> Are you arguing that Bruce Lee was not a scion of Southern Shaolin Chinese martial arts at the time of his grand exposure to the West?


I’ll admit to not being familiar with a lot of traditional Chinese martial arts but Jun Fan is based on Wing Chun not Shaolin animal styles.


----------



## simplicity (Sep 15, 2021)

Mider said:


> many student of Lee’s teaches different things. Ted Wong, Tim Tackett, Dan Inosanto, etc. the concepts stuff is Dan Inosanto‘s school of JKD. Escrima can be good depending on the teacher and Eric Paulsons CSW is really great stuff


Tim is not a student.of Bruce Lee (1st Generation). I know Mr. Tackett he is a  2nd Generation Student.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Sep 20, 2021)

ProgrammerPoe said:


> I’ll admit to not being familiar with a lot of traditional Chinese martial arts but Jun Fan is based on Wing Chun not Shaolin animal styles.


Wing Chun is a Shaolin based art that utilizes three of the five Southern Shaolin animal motifs.

Of Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, and Crane, Wing Chun forgoes the fire and metal elements (tiger and leopard), and sticks mainly to earth, water, and wood.

If this doesn't make any sense to you, you are welcome.


----------

