# Kwok Fu's son Performing SLT



## Marnetmar (Apr 9, 2014)

For those who don't know, Kwok Fu was a student of Yip Man before he moved to Hong Kong. In this we see a lot of the crane-snake stuff you find in older mainland W.C lineages.


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## geezer (Apr 10, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> For those who don't know, Kwok Fu was a student of Yip Man before he moved to Hong Kong. In this we see a lot of the crane-snake stuff you find in older mainland W.C lineages.



Thanks for posting this. In the "wagging fingers"movement it is interesting to see how the fingertips remain in one spot while the wrist and arm move up and down or side to side . In Hong Kong, Grandmaster Yip only taught the "wagging fingers" in Biu Tze form where the arm and wrist stay straight and immobile while only the hand and fingers move. 

This may indeed represent an older version of these movements. However, we all need to be carefull about referring to mainland branches as older. Less changed over time perhaps. But as we are all branches of the _same_ tree, we are all the same age.


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## yak sao (Apr 10, 2014)

Good find.


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## wingchun100 (Apr 11, 2014)

Cool video.


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## Marnetmar (Jul 13, 2014)

Update, I guess this style is from before Yip met Yuen Kay San, so this would be a hybrid of the styles he learned from Chan Wah Shun and Leung Bik. Nothing particularly significant but I thought it was interesting.


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## KPM (Jul 14, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> Update, I guess this style is from before Yip met Yuen Kay San, so this would be a hybrid of the styles he learned from Chan Wah Shun and Leung Bik. Nothing particularly significant but I thought it was interesting.



No I don't think so.  Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan were long-time friends, and Yip Man didn't teach anyone until he was a bit older.  This version of SLT also bears a strong resemblence to the Yuen Kay Shan version to my eyes.  So  I would say that this was very likely after Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan had trained together.  And I am still not a big believer in the whole Leung Bik story.   But that's a  topic for another discussion.


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## zuti car (Jul 15, 2014)

KPM said:


> No I don't think so.  Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan were long-time friends, and Yip Man didn't teach anyone until he was a bit older.  This version of SLT also bears a strong resemblence to the Yuen Kay Shan version to my eyes.  So  I would say that this was very likely after Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan had trained together.  And I am still not a big believer in the whole Leung Bik story.   But that's a  topic for another discussion.



I agree with Leung Bik part , there is no evidence of his existence


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## Vajramusti (Jul 20, 2014)

zuti car said:


> I agree with Leung Bik part , there is no evidence of his existence


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Think what you like. Proof is in part related to perception. For me the following is good enough:

1. Ip man's wing chun is different and far more impressive than that of Chan Wah  Sun's wing chun which still exists.

2. Ip Man's wing chun  is different from YKS and Sum Nun. Check out interview with the late Kwok Fu
regarding relationship of Ip Man and YKS

3 Check into comments by leading students of Ip Man including Jiu Wan, Wong Shon Leung, TST, Ho Kam Ming
and others.

4 Check into Ip man;s own comments
....................

Leung Bik moved from Foshan to Hong Kong to seek work... a common phenomenon. In older times--people produced 
only a few students. Ip man's situation of many students with uneven quality control is related to his necessity of making a living 
after the coming of Mao- he was politically on the wrong side.

People from Foshan going to Hong Kong for education or later for employment or to flee Mao's mainland-
a well known phenomenon.

The sniping by non mainstream Ip Man folks is understandable. Sail on!


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## Marnetmar (Jul 20, 2014)

I don't see anyone sniping anything.


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## Vajramusti (Jul 20, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> I don't see anyone sniping anything.


----------------------------------------

no problem

BTW this is an anniversary of the moon landing. There are still folks who say that it has not been "proven".

Let it be.


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## zuti car (Jul 21, 2014)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Think what you like. Proof is in part related to perception. For me the following is good enough:
> 
> 1. Ip man's wing chun is different and far more impressive than that of Chan Wah  Sun's wing chun which still exists.
> ...


Have you ever practiced CWS wing chun, fought with someone who is practicing that style ? How well you actually know and understand CWS's wing chun.
For the rest , you basically said I should take for granted what Yip Man's followers said about them self and their style ?Seriously ? These people and their stories may have some credibility for you and I have no problem whit your convictions and believes . On the other hand I live among Chinese for some time and my experience taught me not to  trust easily  in their stores , especially when we talk about Cantonese people involved in any kind of kung fu . There is one more thing , what should we do with all other lineages who are saying basically same thing about their styles as you are saying about Yip Man , who should I believe because everyone cannot be the best , original , most impressive , "pure " or whatever , or can they ? About Leung Bik , his existence cannot be proven . It is strange , according to the story he lived quite long and yet there is no official records which would prove he actually was a real person , no birth nor death certificates , more importantly no tax records , traveling documents ,nothing . Also , there is no personal letters and he is not mentioned in any documents by third party during his life span . For such an important figure , a son of Leung Jan that is more than unusual . Until Leung Bik's existence can be proved with some solid  evidence which could be verified at any time by actual archaeologists he will be nothing more than a legend [h=3][/h]


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## Transk53 (Jul 21, 2014)

zuti car said:


> Have you ever practiced CWS wing chun, fought with someone who is practicing that style ? How well you actually know and understand CWS's wing chun.
> For the rest , you basically said I should take for granted what Yip Man's followers said about them self and their style ?Seriously ? These people and their stories may have some credibility for you and I have no problem whit your convictions and believes . On the other hand I live among Chinese for some time and my experience taught me not to  trust easily  in their stores , especially when we talk about Cantonese people involved in any kind of kung fu . There is one more thing , what should we do with all other lineages who are saying basically same thing about their styles as you are saying about Yip Man , who should I believe because everyone cannot be the best , original , most impressive , "pure " or whatever , or can they ? About Leung Bik , his existence cannot be proven . It is strange , according to the story he lived quite long and yet there is no official records which would prove he actually was a real person , no birth nor death certificates , more importantly no tax records , traveling documents ,nothing . Also , there is no personal letters and he is not mentioned in any documents by third party during his life span . For such an important figure , a son of Leung Jan that is more than unusual . Until Leung Bik's existence can be proved with some solid  evidence which could be verified at any time by actual archaeologists he will be nothing more than a legend



I would not have a clue if Leung Bik was or wasn't, but looking into it a while ago, some have to great lenghts to make it appear so. I don't speak any Chinese dialect, but this page had some interest at the time.

*Clicky*


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## Vajramusti (Jul 21, 2014)

zuti car said:


> .
> For the rest , you basically said I should take for granted what Yip Man's followers said about them self and their style ?
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> That is not quite what I said. I stated what I perceived to be the case.
> ...


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## Marnetmar (Jul 21, 2014)

Then quit with the arrogant attitude and stop accusing everyone who disagrees with you of sniping.

Transk: 

Heh, he kinda reminds me of Eddie Chong.


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## Vajramusti (Jul 21, 2014)

Marnetmar said:


> Then quit with the arrogant attitude and stop accusing everyone who disagrees with you of sniping.
> 
> Transk:
> 
> Heh, he kinda reminds me of Eddie Chong.


---------------------------------------------------

I am not Eddie Chong, have little in common with Eddie Chong. I don't think that Eddie Chong is arrogant either.
Not fruitful- making personal comments about my attitude.

Sticking to the subject---given Ip Man's slt, chum kiu, biu jee, mok jong,kwan and bot jam do- is there any evidence  that what he taught in Hong Kong
is Chan Wah son wing chun or Yeun  Kay shan wing chun?
I take Ip Man at his word as to the source of the roots of his Hong Kong wing chun....unless there is clear contrary evidence.

When Ip Man was alive,,,in Hing Kong no one challenged the effectiveness of his wing chun  or his statement about his roots.


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## Marnetmar (Jul 21, 2014)

Sorry, I'm not referring to you, I'm talking about those photos that Transk linked.












For the record, Eddie is my sigung and he's an awesome dude.


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