# Is there a pistol with.............



## Kane (Sep 2, 2006)

Is there a handgun pistol with all (or most) of the following features;

-Semi-automatic or automatic

-High magazine capacity (over 10)

-Shoots as strong as shots from a revolver

-High probability not to jam


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 2, 2006)

You might want to look into some of the Hi-Cap .45 1911's.

Or if that's not to your taste, the Glock 20 in 10mm, or the 21 in .45.

Jeff


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## KenpoTex (Sep 2, 2006)

Depending on the caliber you're interested in (not sure what you mean by "Shoots as strong as shots from a revolver"), most full-size or mid-size pistols from reputable manufacturers will meet those criteria.  Jeff's suggestions were great, you might also look at the Springfield XD series (the .45 model holds 13+1).


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## arnisandyz (Sep 2, 2006)

kenpotex said:
			
		

> Depending on the caliber you're interested in (not sure what you mean by "Shoots as strong as shots from a revolver")



+1 ...this could be interpreted in different ways.  The AutoMag  fired a rimless equivlent of a 44 magnum but cutting down a 308 case. The Desert Eagle fires 357 mag, 44 mag and 50 express but the capacity doesn't meet your criteria. Getting revolver ammo to feed reliably in a hi-cap semiauto is difficult because of the rim of the cartridge.

If your looking for "equivlents" 357 Sig and 10mm are pretty hi-velocity loads.


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 2, 2006)

Yeah, but try to buy a .44 AutoMag.  I've seen a couple for sale, and wow, talk about salty.


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## Kane (Sep 3, 2006)

The AMT AutoMag V seems to be one of the most powerful semi-automatic pistols, but it probably costs a leg.

Does the AMT AutoMag V have a high probability not to jam? If so then it meets 3 of all 4 of the criteria.

BTW, is there a semi-automatic handgun as strong as the AMT AutoMag V but with a magazine 10+ (as well as a high probability not to jam)?


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 3, 2006)

Kane said:
			
		

> The AMT AutoMag V seems to be one of the most powerful semi-automatic pistols, but it probably costs a leg.
> 
> Does the AMT AutoMag V have a high probability not to jam? If so then it meets 3 of all 4 of the criteria.
> 
> BTW, is there a semi-automatic handgun as strong as the AMT AutoMag V but with a magazine 10+ (as well as a high probability not to jam)?


Can I ask what you want it for?

And to answer your question, I don't think there is.


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## Grenadier (Sep 3, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Yeah, but try to buy a .44 AutoMag. I've seen a couple for sale, and wow, talk about salty.


 
Not to mention the cost of ammo...  Unless someone handloads, and has the good hands to manufacture .44 Automag brass from .308 Win cases, the owner is going to have a devil of a time finding ammo.  

Back to the original poster's question, the most powerful, conventional, high capacity handgun out there is probably going to be the Glock 20.  With the hotter loads, you can get into the lower to middle part of .41 magnum performance, and with a custom made longer barrel, you could probably get even further than that.  

This pistol has a 15+1 capacity, and at least 10 mm ammo is reasonably plentiful, although finding full power loads might be difficult, since only the Winchester Silvertip and the loads from Doubletap Ammo are in the original Norma-spec performance territory.  

Again, if you can handload your own, you could always form your own 9x25 (aka 9 mm Dillon) brass from 10 mm brass, get a custom barrel made:

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w925dillon.html


Finally, if you're willing for something a bit more... largish..., then you could always go for one of the .223 Remington / 5.56 mm pistols form Bushmaster or Olympic Arms:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c15p97.asp

http://www.olyarms.com/?rootView=browse&view=dtl&ids=OA-93

30 rounds of 5.56 mm ammo, using standard AR15 / M16 magazines.


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## Kane (Sep 3, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> Can I ask what you want it for?
> 
> And to answer your question, I don't think there is.



For self defense and target-shooting mainly, but I'm trying to look for the best available .



> Not to mention the cost of ammo... Unless someone handloads, and has the good hands to manufacture .44 Automag brass from .308 Win cases, the owner is going to have a devil of a time finding ammo.
> 
> Back to the original poster's question, the most powerful, conventional, high capacity handgun out there is probably going to be the Glock 20. With the hotter loads, you can get into the lower to middle part of .41 magnum performance, and with a custom made longer barrel, you could probably get even further than that.
> 
> ...



Great post! That one that uses M16 magazines looks pretty awesome, but owning an automatic maybe too much of a hassle. I'll look into that Glock 20 though.


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 3, 2006)

For defensive purposes, don't worry too much about power.  With the proper loads, anything 9mm/.38 Special and up can do a more than adequate job for that.  Same thing with capacity.  Most "gunfights" involving civilians don't go more than a couple of shots.  

A .44 mag or automag are really overpowered for defensive purposes, and as far as the AR 5.56mm pistols out there, well, at least here in Indiana, they wouldn't be legal to carry, as the magazine isn't fitted through the grip.  But you can get them in semi auto.  I'm not even sure if they make them full auto.  I know they wouldn't be able to sell them to civilians if they did.

If you are looking for a weapon for home defense, I'd recommend a shotgun or carbine.  Much easier to shoot, more accurate, and more powerful.  For years, my primary home defense gun was a Marlin lever action in .357.  It's still pretty handy.

Just my opinions,

Jeff


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## Blindside (Sep 3, 2006)

The AR pistol is no more "automatic" than any other pistol, and a heck of lot less concealable.

For a defensive pistol work there is typically a trade off between control and power of your defensive round.  The most common defensive rounds are 9mm parabellum, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.  The 10mm auto is a good round, but you should note that the FBI abandoned it because many of their agents couldn't handle the recoil.  I think you are putting an overemphasis on power, the ability to put shots on target rapidly and accurately trumps power of the round, at least in my opinion.

Lamont


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## Grenadier (Sep 3, 2006)

Blindside said:
			
		

> The AR pistol is no more "automatic" than any other pistol, and a heck of lot less concealable.


 
Blindside hit on the nose.  

The AR pistols available for non-LEO or military sales, are all semi-automatic.  Other than using rifle ammo, there's nothing really special about them, although they can be fun plinkers.  

There are no full auto weapons available for sale to civilians, except for the ones manufactured before the GCA 86 legislation was enacted, and those command a very hefty premium.


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## KenpoTex (Sep 4, 2006)

Blindside said:


> I think you are putting an overemphasis on power, *the ability to put shots on target rapidly and accurately trumps power of the round*, at least in my opinion.
> 
> Lamont


Well said!

If you want power, go with a rifle or a shotgun.  A handgun that is practical for carry will never compare.  My advice would be to select a weapon in a common caliber (9mm, .357, .40, .45, etc.) from a respected manufacturer, and then practice like crazy.


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## RBaddorf (Sep 4, 2006)

20 round mag. penatrates 48 layers of kevlar
http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/


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## KenpoTex (Sep 4, 2006)

RBaddorf said:


> 20 round mag. penatrates 48 layers of kevlar


...and doesn't do much of anything worthwhile after that.

I definately wouldn't want to get shot with one; for that matter, I wouldn't _want_ to get shot with a .25 auto but there are better choices available.  For most self-defense situations, a round those penetration capabilities is unnecessary.  Really, in many cases, it would be dangerous due to the risk of secondary penetration.


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## Shovel Hook (Oct 29, 2006)

I've been thinking of a Glock 20 vs. a .45 conversion to a .45 Super, .40 Super, .400 Corbon, or .460 Rowland. On one hand the Glock gives you up to 18 rounds. But one of the .45 based high performance rounds gives the extra power but most are non-permanent conversions or just a barrel change and you can also use cheaper and more common .45 ACP. This is not a pressing decision, something within the next few years (a need that would be better served by a Trail Boss or Ruger Alaskan, but would rather have an automatic).
Can the 10mm compete in terms of muzzle energy (with factory ammo) with the .45 wildcats? I'm sure both are inferior to a magnum revolver for dangerous game protection. But even though I'm cool with a 9mm for defense, might go with something that could do both.


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