# Trading Shots: Would you let your child do MMA?



## marques (Oct 3, 2016)

Trading Shots: Would you let your child do MMA? How about as a career?


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 3, 2016)

As a child? Certainly, as long as reasonable safety precautions were in place.
But give me a freaking break. By the time they're old enough that career choices are in the offing, it's no longer a matter of "letting" them do anything.


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## Kickboxer101 (Oct 3, 2016)

Sure why not its no more or less dangerous than any other sport and it keeps them fit and healthy and teaches them skills for self defence


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## KangTsai (Oct 3, 2016)

Definitely. I would emphasise on how not to hurt him/herself though.


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## Tez3 (Oct 3, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Definitely. I would emphasise on how not to hurt him/herself though.



MMA is no different from any other martial art though, you can hurt yourself in any of them.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 3, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> MMA is no different from any other martial art though, you can hurt yourself in any of them.


And with any sport. If I had kids, knowing what I know, I'd want submissions kept very gentle until teens (long-term joint damage potential), and would expect head shots to be kept well outside KO range, at the very least.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 3, 2016)

To me, the second question is easy: If they want to pursue that as a career, I can't really stop them. Now for the first question...

To me, it depends on the kids age and what 'kids MMA is'. I would not allow my child younger than 12 to do any contact sparring. I've seen kids do contact sparring at 12, and they are good at it, so my opinion is probably not logical, but I would not trust my child with contact sparring at that age...I've gotten enough concussions from sparring, so genetically the risk is definitely there.

I would also make sure to keep any submissions very gentle, and pay very close attention to their kicks to make sure they're not screwing up their knees before they hit 20.


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## Danny T (Oct 3, 2016)

marques said:


> Trading Shots: Would you let your child do MMA? How about as a career?


Yes.
I'd also let them play other sports like baseball (throwing and hitting a hard sphere at one another), ride bicycles, shoot bow and arrows and firearms. I'd let them box, wrestle, swing sticks, train in the martial arts, play war games, jump on trampolines, climb on jungle gyms and even more. Wait a moment...I did have kids, they did all of this and a lot more. They are all still alive, well adjusted, in good physical and mental shape, and now have families of their own.
Yes I'd let them.


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## Headhunter (Oct 3, 2016)

I would've 100% let them train if they wanted to. Both my kids did train in martial arts just not mma because they had no interest in it. They both were interested because of me doing it and I trained them both. My son who's my eldest started boxing at 13 and did that for years and won 1 amateur fight but he got into over stuff and stopped training, my daughter did kickboxing and had 2 fights in the space of 5 years but she still trains to work out. As for having a full on career I'd be a bit more against it not the injuries side because that can happen in anything but just because I know fighting can be a horrible career if you get it wrong. Take the wrong fights, hire the wrong people you can be chewed up and spat out but if they wanted it I'd never stop them.

My attitude is I'll allow my kids to do anything as long as it's legal, won't get them in trouble or get them arrested at 3 in the morning (screw going down the police station at 3 in the morning lol)


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## Andrew Green (Oct 3, 2016)

Considering I teach kids mma, starting at age 3, yes.  But no kid should be making career choices that are set in stone.  If they want to be a fighter at 5 cool, same as astronaut, police officer, movie star or the ever popular spiderman career path.

I wouldn't recommend competitive MMA as a career to anyone though.  The pay generally sucks unless you are at the very top and it's a short and risky career.  But by the time they can start competing it's their choice.  If you want a career in martial arts your re far better off becoming a coach though.


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## kuniggety (Oct 4, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> And with any sport. If I had kids, knowing what I know, I'd want submissions kept very gentle until teens (long-term joint damage potential), and would expect head shots to be kept well outside KO range, at the very least.



Luckily their joints are very springy. One of the worst armbars I've had was helping out in a kid's class and having a 6 yo girl armbar me... she didn't stop at the tap...


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## Buka (Oct 4, 2016)

With a couple of caveats.
If I trained him/her, yes.
And if I thought they could do so safely based on their ability, common sense and my approval of the venue.

Otherwise, F no.

Same as I would do for my students.


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## Tez3 (Oct 4, 2016)

No reputable MMA promoter I know would promote children's fights so really children doing anything other than training is out of the question. Young teens here can compete in amateur fights which are no head shots either standing or on the ground. Children training MMA is no different and indeed perhaps 'safer' than other arts (boxing for example) where head shots are used. When thinking of children's MMA classes people should dismiss any ideas that it's the UFC or any other competition, it's just regular martial arts training just as if the children were doing a stand up art like TKD/TSD etc *and* a ground art like Judo/BJJ.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> Luckily their joints are very springy. One of the worst armbars I've had was helping out in a kid's class and having a 6 yo girl armbar me... she didn't stop at the tap...


Springy, yes, but not fully formed, so long-term damage is possible in ways not likely with teens and adults.


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## Tez3 (Oct 4, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Springy, yes, but not fully formed, so long-term damage is possible in ways not likely with teens and adults.



Something you have to watch for in martial arts as a whole not just MMA. We are careful with our adult students anyway, they can't afford to be injured as they could be charged with 'self inflicted injuries' if not fit for work. Hasn't happened yet but we do have to be careful.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 4, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Something you have to watch for in martial arts as a whole not just MMA. We are careful with our adult students anyway, they can't afford to be injured as they could be charged with 'self inflicted injuries' if not fit for work. Hasn't happened yet but we do have to be careful.


True enough. With grappling competition, there's a higher level of risk (to everyone), which is why I brought it up. I didn't teach small joint manipulations to children, when I taught children. There's also the issue of the other child having poor motor control and accidentally going too far - a bit less risky with most adults, especially since adults have a better grasp of actions' consequences.


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## Steve (Oct 4, 2016)

Me personally?  No way.   BJJ, Judo, Wrestling... Any grappling art.   If they want to take blows to the head, they can do it as adults.


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## Tez3 (Oct 4, 2016)

Takedown MMA – Amateur Mixed Martial Arts Tournament  » Rules

These are the average rules for amateur MMA here for those aged 14 upwards though some places say 16/17, *no head shots*, no small joint manipulation etc. This promotion stipulates as well that 14/15 are restricted to novice and 16/17 year old to novice or intermediate.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 4, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Takedown MMA – Amateur Mixed Martial Arts Tournament  » Rules
> 
> These are the average rules for amateur MMA here for those aged 14 upwards though some places say 16/17, *no head shots*, no small joint manipulation etc. This promotion stipulates as well that 14/15 are restricted to novice and 16/17 year old to novice or intermediate.


This sounded off to me, as I recalled a friend (when he was 15/16) training for a fight, and focusing on guarding head shots. I don't remember what organization it was with, since competing has never been something I concerned myself with. But I looked up the rules for WKA, and apparently for them between 12 and 17, you are either a class junior or b class junior. A class juniors are allowed (controlled) head shots while B class juniors are not.

Admittedly, this is for kickboxing rather than MMA which is the focus, but just interesting to see the disparities.


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## Tez3 (Oct 4, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Admittedly, this is for kickboxing rather than MMA which is the focus, but just interesting to see the disparities.



A lot of people like to have a rant about MMA while forgetting that a lot of karate, kickboxing and TKD competitions have head shots at all ages. Of course boxing does nothing but head shots, I can't imagine a children's boxing competition with no head shots! When I say 'children' for martial arts purposes (physiologically) I mean up to 18 years old.


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## Kickboxer101 (Oct 4, 2016)

Saw this on twitter thought I'd share it here an 11 year old fighting at an event Karim Zidan on Twitter


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## AnselMgertner54 (Jul 17, 2022)

If the correct rules and safety equipment are adopted, MMA is just as safe as any other martial arts practiced by millions of children and teenagers worldwide. Experts reckon that the ideal age to start an MMA practice is between the ages of 13-16 when the adolescent body is growing and learning to identify with the adult body. To start MMA training, the child must have a background in fitness, strong muscles, motivation, and strong immunity. I started when I was 6 and was training while my peers played would you rather for kids.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 17, 2022)

AnselMgertner54 said:


> To start MMA training, the child must have a background in fitness, strong muscles, motivation, and strong immunity.


I question parts of this. There's no reason a weak child can't start training, as long as the training includes developing that strength. Same for fitness (they probably need marginal fitness, at least). As for immunity, I'm not sure where MMA requires any more of that than any other social contact activity.


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## Buka (Jul 17, 2022)

AnselMgertner54 said:


> If the correct rules and safety equipment are adopted, MMA is just as safe as any other martial arts practiced by millions of children and teenagers worldwide. Experts reckon that the ideal age to start an MMA practice is between the ages of 13-16 when the adolescent body is growing and learning to identify with the adult body. To start MMA training, the child must have a background in fitness, strong muscles, motivation, and strong immunity. I started when I was 6 and was training while my peers played would you rather for kids.


Welcome to MartialTalk, AnselMgertner. Hope you enjoy it here.


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## Buka (Jul 17, 2022)

I really like MMA. But it's the same question as with any other type or Martial Art -
it depends on the school.

I've been around a lot of wonderful MMA guys. Been around some that weren't as wonderful. They didn't last, though. And I could say that exact same thing with any other art.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 17, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> And with any sport. If I had kids, knowing what I know, I'd want submissions kept very gentle until teens (long-term joint damage potential), and would expect head shots to be kept well outside KO range, at the very least.


This is where I am on the issue.  MMA itself isn't the issue that I would be concern with.  I would be more concern with the amount of force used in sparring and in competitions.  There would have to be some limitations

Just from an instructor's point of view.  I've always valued control more than power when it comes to kids.  Power is much easier to obtain than control.  Control is what they will need when the power naturally comes.  Kids at the school I was at would spar but a lot of it was body contact.  We didn't encourage punches to the head and we always made sure that the power level was low enough to reduce serious injure to body and ego.  The last thing you want is a child to be traumatized by a hard shot in sparring.  Things like that build fear.  You know me.  Spar to learn.

In terms of competition. Full contact is a no.  There are other ways to be competitive with a child's fighting skills.  K.O.s and destroyed joints aren't required.  In terms of a career.  By the time a child is old enough to determine that he would have already determined if he was good enough to go into a career of fighting.  

For teens and adults, my biggest concern about head shots is not that they do them, but how well they can defend against them.  The better the teen and adult is with defending headshots the more likely I will allow them to spar where head shots are being used.  But I would also expect the student to have enough control where they aren't teeing up on someone's head just because it was wide open.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 17, 2022)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Saw this on twitter thought I'd share it here an 11 year old fighting at an event Karim Zidan on Twitter


I don't like things like this. This is what knuckle head adults do as adults.  There's a lot of mental and social development that kids still have to do.  Adults will see this display and know that "It's part of the act."  Kids will see it and think this is how they should always be.  Any kids competition should have a higher focus on honorable behavior.  After all these are the same kids that will be in control when they become adults and we are old.  What type of person do you want do depend on as you age.    Not all of the kids will continue the fight path.  However that, fight mentality, pre fight ego, may last longer than we would like.

Kids see reality in a different light and I think that's something that people have to take into consideration in competitive sports.  The same behavior that would cause a parent to fight at a game is probably something they learned as a child.   





Some organizers treat kids almost like fighting dogs, with no care about the personal development of the kids.  I don't like the exploitation of kids in any shape or form.


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## J. Pickard (Aug 3, 2022)

There are some really good and really safe point based MMA schools and tournaments out there that allow kids to compete with less risk than most other sports. Honestly I would rather my child do any type of martial art competition than do something like high school football (American).


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## Steve (Aug 3, 2022)

Personally. I’m not worried about a lot of contact, but I’m careful about blows to the head.  I had three diagnosed concussions as a kid and I’m sure a lot more that weren’t diagnosed.  Probably as a result of that and all we are learning about brain injuries and such there’s no way I’d let my kids play football or train in a martial art that included blows to the head.


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## drop bear (Aug 4, 2022)

I have a friends kid doing a modified mma. She is 13.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 4, 2022)

Steve said:


> Personally. I’m not worried about a lot of contact, but I’m careful about blows to the head.  I had three diagnosed concussions as a kid and I’m sure a lot more that weren’t diagnosed.  Probably as a result of that and all we are learning about brain injuries and such there’s no way I’d let my kids play football or train in a martial art that included blows to the head.


I can’t say how lucky I think I am that I was scared to head the ball in soccer.


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## drop bear (Aug 5, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I have a friends kid doing a modified mma. She is 13.



The rules I think are no head shots. No striking on the deck. Not sure about the round times.


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## Tez3 (Aug 8, 2022)

I'm not sure why some are talking about children and careers in MMA, it's a sport like many others and should be done as a sport. Most children play football, cricket, hockey etc just as they do martial arts with no thoughts of taking them up as a career.


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## Buka (Aug 9, 2022)

Any of the MMA places I’ve been to were very careful with kids. No shots to the head, no arm bars and no chokes of any kind.

I trained my young nephew that way, then, when he was eighteen, trained him with everything else.

Seemed to work well.


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## skribs (Sep 12, 2022)

Buka said:


> Any of the MMA places I’ve been to were very careful with kids. No shots to the head, no arm bars and no chokes of any kind.


My TKD school wouldn't teach hand grab techniques in the kids class, and you had to be an adult (or a black belt in TKD) to do the Hapkido class, which focused on wrist locks.

But then you have BJJ, where kid white belts are learning the submissions.


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## Buka (Sep 13, 2022)

skribs said:


> My TKD school wouldn't teach hand grab techniques in the kids class, and you had to be an adult (or a black belt in TKD) to do the Hapkido class, which focused on wrist locks.
> 
> But then you have BJJ, where kid white belts are learning the submissions.


The BJJ schools I've been to don't let kids train chokes or armbars. But it's been a while, I don't know what goes on now.


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## skribs (Sep 13, 2022)

Buka said:


> The BJJ schools I've been to don't let kids train chokes or armbars. But it's been a while, I don't know what goes on now.


I just catch the end of kids class, so I can't say 100% what they do.  Most of what I watch is dodgeball or some crossover between tag and red rover.  

However, looking at the rules for various tournaments, it appears that armbars and some chokes are legal in kid's brackets.


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## Buka (Sep 13, 2022)

skribs said:


> I just catch the end of kids class, so I can't say 100% what they do.  Most of what I watch is dodgeball or some crossover between tag and red rover.
> 
> However, looking at the rules for various tournaments, it appears that armbars and some chokes are legal in kid's brackets.


I hope the kids aren't young kids. Especially for chokes and armbars. To me, the problem with young kids and armbars is a lot of kids are like Gumby, their joints bend the wrong way more so than adults. It's only a matter of a few degrees, but those few degrees make the point "of where you have to tap" go too far to be safe, especially with stubborn kids trying to be cool.


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## skribs (Sep 13, 2022)

Buka said:


> I hope the kids aren't young kids. Especially for chokes and armbars. To me, the problem with young kids and armbars is a lot of kids are like Gumby, their joints bend the wrong way more so than adults. It's only a matter of a few degrees, but those few degrees make the point "of where you have to tap" go too far to be safe, especially with stubborn kids trying to be cool.


I couldn't find any specifics on what *is* allowed or for what age groups.  "Kids" seemed to be defined as "under 13".  But I know many places will start kids as young as 3 and 4.


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## Buka (Sep 13, 2022)

skribs said:


> I couldn't find any specifics on what *is* allowed or for what age groups.  "Kids" seemed to be defined as "under 13".  But I know many places will start kids as young as 3 and 4.


In my opinion, the only time a three or four year old should be doing ANY kind of Martial Art is if the child's parents are the teachers.

Of course that eliminates the well thought out money grab.


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## skribs (Sep 13, 2022)

Buka said:


> In my opinion, the only time a three or four year old should be doing ANY kind of Martial Art is if the child's parents are the teachers.
> 
> Of course that eliminates the well thought out money grab.


In Taekwondo, it worked really well to help get kids used to a few things:

There are other adults in the world besides mommy and daddy.
There are other kids in the world besides yourself.
How to listen, pay attention, and follow directions.
How to learn new skills.
They did learn Taekwondo.  But they also had fun and learned how to get along with other kids and how to respond appropriately to authority figures.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 8, 2022)

lamarclark09 said:


> Yes, I would like my child to do MMA. Because children learn the MMA and then protect themselves and can  fight your own opponent.


That seems to miss the point of the OP's question.


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## Tez3 (Nov 8, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> That seems to miss the point of the OP's question.


Oh I don't know, having your children fight your opponents could be fun. 😁


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## tkdroamer (Nov 9, 2022)

I like the systemic approach. There are ample sports a kid can do within the school systems. I feel there is more certainty that my kid will be in a wholesome group environment with trained professionals. 
Yes, there is a bit of sarcasm in this statement.


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## dramonis (Dec 4, 2022)

marques said:


> Trading Shots: Would you let your child do MMA? How about as a career?


not mma but bjj and other brazilian traditional arts such as capoeira and maculele to keep the family's tradition


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