# Go Kan Ryu ?



## Autocrat

So, I'm visiting my mother, and the doorbell goes.
As I'm nearest, I'm politely (yeah - polite my left foot!), asked to get the door.

Lo and behold, a little chap with a folder is stood there, staring at me....

"Hello there sir, My name is ?????, and I'm doing the rounds on finding people likely to enjoy learning a martial art.......are you interested in karate at all?....I'm from Go Kan Ryu..... we practice a mix of Shotokan and GoJu Ryu.... we take the *strength and power of Shotokan* and mix it with the *acrobatics of GoJu*.....blah blah...boring ten minutes....we can make you an offer of £80 for you licence and insurance.... alternatively, as a special offer, for £25 you can train and if you get your first belt (yellow) in four months, we pay the rest, (£55)..... that would be good, yes...(positive sales technique! huh!)......


So... anyone else had these folk.... heard of them, trained with them, are them?

Opinions or information welcome!


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## RRouuselot

Autocrat said:
			
		

> So, I'm visiting my mother, and the doorbell goes.
> As I'm nearest, I'm politely (yeah - polite my left foot!), asked to get the door.
> 
> Lo and behold, a little chap with a folder is stood there, staring at me....
> 
> "Hello there sir, My name is ?????, and I'm doing the rounds on finding people likely to enjoy learning a martial art.......are you interested in karate at all?....I'm from Go Kan Ryu..... we practice a mix of Shotokan and GoJu Ryu.... we take the *strength and power of Shotokan* and mix it with the *acrobatics of GoJu*.....blah blah...boring ten minutes....we can make you an offer of £80 for you licence and insurance.... alternatively, as a special offer, for £25 you can train and if you get your first belt (yellow) in four months, we pay the rest, (£55)..... that would be good, yes...(positive sales technique! huh!)......
> 
> 
> So... anyone else had these folk.... heard of them, trained with them, are them?
> 
> Opinions or information welcome!


 
 That style is mentioned in this thread:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=87715#post87715


 Look for comments made by RyuShikan.......post # 143


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## Autocrat

Thanks for that... limited, but offered some info!

So I take it there are no Go Kan Ryu practitioners or advocates here?  
No one has attended any clubs for this style or teaches it?

(Do more than a handful of peple actually respond rather than just read other post?  No offence, just asking, 1/12th of readers posted on this, and the reference was limited... though had some important bearing!)


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## auzziegreg59

You are now on their territory hit list,you and your family may look forward to many more exciting chats about what they can do for you in such a small time frame and how it is imperative that you join the organization. You will be promised advancement through the ranks as long as you will teach for them.You will be offered many different coloured rainbows by these estranged people.There was a column in an Australian magazine called "BLITZ" on them and a few problems they had internally.It is there for all to see so you should surf till you find all the answers that you require.


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## Colin_Linz

Ive had a number of conversations with these guys. What I dont understand is why they send people around selling their product, when they dont know what it is. Im genuinely interested in all martial arts so I dont mind talking to them, but whenever I ask a question outside the sale aspect they say, oh I dont know, Ive only just started. My son was interested in learning Karate and last time they came around he asked if he could watch their training. They replied no, not until you sign the contract. This raises a number of red flags just on its own.


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## samuri-man

any club that makes you sign a contract is dodgy, my friend told my he had an expirienc like that


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## Autocrat

Thank goodness.... looks like there are no Go kan ryu here.... just wanted to kind of make suure before I warned those who haven't encountered them yet!

DON'T BOTHER WITH THEM!

There, thats the warning.....
I wasn't really interested... yet am always willing to look into other styles to see if they compliment how I fight.... they contacted my sister and her B/F took my little 5 yr old nephew to have a go.... Her B/F came back and said several offonsive things... and even darling Hayden, (my  nephew) said they looked silly!

Apparently, it's merely kata and basics... no serious stuff or things that could be used for real situations...... how the hell can p[epole be allowed to obtain license and insurance for something like that ????????

Flaming acrobatics of GoJu Ryu my foot.... hell, I tend to flick/roll out of a technique, but thats due to gymnastics, not my MA training!

And you can get a Black belt in 1 YEAR!
All you have to do is go twice a week, for 5 weeks, paying £5 per session, (that = £500), and perform there silly kata, and you have a black belt!
MY GOD!!

It's wrong!

Oh, if there are any GKR people here, please answer the above as best you can.... it's not meant as an attack, but letting others know what I have found... if you can explain or correct, I'd be more than willing to listen.


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## RoadHog

Hi all,

Im with GKR and have been for a number of years so Im going to have a crack at answering your queries as best I can. 

First off can I just say that some of what has been stated on numerous forums regarding GKR has been wildly inaccurate (black in 1 year, grades based on class size! Come on).  There are more than enough bad practices within GKR to not need to make up any more.

Personally I heavily disagree with the business practices of gkr as being very lame (door knocking  come on!) and the rate of expansion being to fast for them to adequately sustain quality within there new regions.  However training within *established* dojos is in my opinion of a high stand and the etiquette, respect and willingness to work hard has been present throughout.  As with any MA all is in the eye of the beholder.  Not everyone expects the same thing from a style they undertake and what they expect and require changes as they develop in MA.

For info  here is the minimum grading criteria.  Please note this is minimum, from my experience the time and classes targets for anything past yellow are almost impossible.  In my case I was on yellow for around five months training four times a week and these intervals only increased as I progressed through the ranks.  As you can figure out for yourself (he says trying to add up) minimum time to black looks like four - five years.

GRADE LEVEL​BELT​KATA TO BE PERFORMED​MINIMUM NO. OF CLASSES​MINIMUM TIME REQUIREMENT​From 10th Kyu to 9th Kyu
Yellow tip​N/A​6​3 Weeks​From 9th Kyu to 8th Kyu
Yellow​Taigyoku Sho-Dan​10​5 Weeks​From 8th Kyu to 7th Kyu Ho
Orange tip​N/A​12​6 Weeks​From 7th Kyu Ho to 7th Kyu 
Orange​Taigyoku Ni-Dan​12​6 Weeks​From 7th Kyu to 6th Kyu
Green​Saifa​32​4 Months​From 6th Kyu to 5th Kyu
Blue​Saifa​40​5 Months​From 5th Kyu to 4th Kyu
Red​Bassai-Dai​40​5 Months​From 4th Kyu to 3rd Kyu
Brown​Bassai-Dai​50​6 Months​From 3rd Kyu to 2nd Kyu
Brown​Seiunchin​50​6 Months​From 2nd Kyu to 1st Kyu
Brown​Empi​50​6 Months​From 1st Kyu to Shodan-ho
Black (Prov.)​Sepai & Senseru​50​6 Months​From Shodan-ho to Shodan
Black​Sepai & Hangetsu​100​12 Months​ 
The format of the classes I attend fluctuate on a weekly basis depending on what was done the previous week.  Some weeks its all basics, all kata, all kumite or whatever hasnt been worked on for a week or two but generally they go along the lines of warm up, combos, basics, partner work, kata, kumite.

All my instructors are Shodan or above and the number of kyu grade lead instructors are diminishing due to how long GKR have been in the area.

Please note guys this is not a counter attack or anything like that but I am trying to give a balanced view from my experience.

Cheers all and Ill answer any follow up questions as best I can.


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## RoadHog

lol - okay the table didnt post correctly - my bad


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## Cirdan

A fitting name for the style I must say. Very appropriate.


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## twendkata71

*first off let me say that I have never seen a karate school go door to door here in the US. I have seen them send out a bulk mailer, where they send school advertisements to everyone in a certain area. This gets costly and rarely works. The door to door thing sounds a bit like the Jahova's witness.. Can't argue with them either, they just keep coming.*
*I have heard bad and good things about this Gokan ryu. But, since in my 25 years of karate here in the USA, I have not met any practicitioners ,and if I have ever competed against any internationally they did not mention it. I can't say either way.  I There are several anti GKR groups in Yahoo and one pro group.  *


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## RoadHog

GKR in the US is very different to other areas.  They use full time dojos and don't do door-to-door canvasing.  If my memory is correct they only went over a few years ago and are only in Huston - Texas.


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## thetruth

They are OK at sports karate but they are essentially just a means by which to make their founder Robert Sullivan rich.  I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.  I also heard that the kanji literally translates as the school of rape as bobby apparently didn't do his research very well.   The name kinda suits what they do as far as representing the martial arts goes i think
Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## twendkata71

*I looked at the  kanji and it says hard -completion- style. So, that doesn't really make sense altogether. This happens a lot when a non Japanese/Okinawan names their new style. They put a few Japanese words togther with a basic explanation of what these words mean, but not what they mean in Japanese together. *


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## Icarius

Hey everyone. I've come to tell you about the wonderful style that is Go Kan Ryu as someone who has actually worked for them briefly as a *cough*"self defence consultant"

My story is somewhat long, and interesting, and is roughly about 3-4 years old, but it should still open your eyes to how awesome GKR is.

Please bear in mind the following. I was young (17), reasonably stupid, needed the money and I actually liked the idea of giving people the oppertunity to learn Karate by any means, while actually learning it.

Anyway, story begins, I'm still visiting the Job Center in my local area and I'm pretty desperate to find a quick and easy fix for a Job. (probably my first big mistake) One week I go down there, I am confronted by this guy wearing the GKR tracksuit coat and he grabs my attention. Firstly, why is the man outside the JobCenter... simple, he's probably not allowed inside and can headhunt people for free instead of putting a Job Offer in the system. He can also meet the people first hand and things. He seemed very nice and quiet charasmatic anyway and I took the bait quiet easily. I give him my name and phone number and I end up getting an interview at the end of the day.

Good, I think? I then go to an interview. Interview asks me some general questions. I can't remember what was being asked, but I actually believe now that they would take me in, based on how gullible and easily brainwashed I am. The tell me the general purpose of my Job, as well as all the things that entail it.

I go home, generally unpleased with how the interview went (because I thought I wasn't going to get it) and then take a few days to recover from it. I get a phonecall later in the week and they tell me I earned the job and that "there was one other person they was considering, but they was being somewhat hesitant about it, and if I made my mind up faster, I'd get the Job"

Mistake number 2, I took the job, pretty much immediatly and didn't even think about what I was doing.

Let me tell you the wonders of the GKR system of door to door selling.



> You are now on their territory hit list,you and your family may look forward to many more exciting chats about what they can do for you in such a small time frame and how it is imperative that you join the organization.



This is so unbelivably true, that it's quiet scary that you could hit the nail so hard and so accuratly. I guess thats the power of Real Karate. Anyway, yeah... in the conference room (or more like the boss' dining room as it were) there is a map of the city your in, the locations of the dojo's and then a circle around each one of the maps. Obviously you can see what happens inside those circles. Selling! They plot out each day, where and when they will go and sell these crummy memberships to you. Oh yeah, the memberships are £20 a pop.

Imagine going round to people's houses, asking them to buy some "self defence" for £20, which they had to give you there and then. Now you're probably wondering where that money goes exactly. Do the sellers get any of the money back? Do they get paid a minimum wage? Well, they actually take that £20 and put it straight in thier pockets. Oh, and to be able to sell those Memberships, you actually have to make enough money to even be allowed to sell it. Yeah, that right, some of money DOES go directly to GKR. Roughly £20 if I remember... I'm not so sure of that though, but I do remember having to borrow money from my mom at least one week because I didn't even get a sale.

The most i've earned in a week was £100. I think. I then went on to not earning anything for the next two weeks.

I was there, working for them for roughly 2-3 months. Each day was fairly interesting, and the hours were kind of random. On some days, I would have to be up at 10am to go to a Karate Lesson, then at 1, have a meeting. From the Boss' house, I then went to the destination we was selling memberships. These places were as far as being 10-12 miles away on some occassions, so I had to get a ride from one of the people there. Some times, I came back as late as 12pm.

Now, a standard day out, selling these membership was kind of simple. For the first few hours, we would walk around to people's doors, with our little folder and our script (unless you could remember it ) and we stood at this person's door, arranging a time to meet later into the day so that we could sit down and talk about getting the person a membership. Let me just point out to you by the way that the way in which they tell you to explain things is somewhat... leading. Even when I was sitting there, being trained, they was even saying that the majority of the thing is set up to bait people into it. A standard salesman tactic... and a somewhat evil ploy. I'm throughly convinced that the staff do not give an ounce of care to the people they suck in. This is probably the reason as to why didn't like what I was doing, because I actually had a concious. The majority of the time, I felt like I was pick-pocketing people, and I also didn't want to get people involved that genuinly didn't want to do this. Sometimes though, I didn't give a rat's-*** and I needed the money (espically during the time where I didn't actually get any money for 2 weeks)

In the 2-3 months I was there, I managed to only go up one belt. ONE. The first time I actually sparred, the person I was fighting ATTEMPTED TO BREAK MY LEG. I've consulted a friend about the way I was kicked and she suggests that. She's a Black Belt in Tae-Kwon-Doe and a teacher, so I somewhat trust her ability to tell whether or not this guy was trying to break my leg, based on my description.

As I mentioned before, there was a lot of backstabbing and bitching about people within the organisation. Though I'm fairly paranoid sometimes, I truly believe that this kick he did was to try and at least hurt me seriously.

This was pretty much the final straw at this point anyway, with a crap run of luck with selling "memberships", and with this guy trying to break my leg in half, I wanted to at least have a day off and consider if doing this was even good for me, let alone right. As soon as I tried to request a day off, I was fired on the spot, in the comfort of my own home too. Actually, I was given the choice as to whether I wanted to quit there and then, or carry on. I just choose to quit, it was definatly what I wanted at the time.

Story over, though there is probably a lot more I could tell you about GKR's system of doing things. Personally, the reason I'm here on this forum right now was because I wanted to see what people were saying about GKR's style. Since I now I find that it's the Scammers Style of Martial Art (rape-your-wallet fu?) I felt like I could give you guys more insight into this terrible beast.

Long story short: GKR is a scam, I have worked for them and can back up what people are saying on here.

Kick them in the bollocks.


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## RoadHog

Hi all,
Sorry to hear you had such a cr@p time with GKR Icarius and I really hope your experience with GKR hasnt made you give up on martial arts  theres loads of styles out there and I really hope youve found a style that makes you happy.  If you visit this forum again Id really like to hear the next chapter of your martial arts journey as I really hope it didnt end like this.
I cant really argue with anything youve said regarding GKR business practices or the role of there so called Self Defence Consultant (SDC).  Like I started in my first post I dont like there business practices and feel that the majority of people they get to become SDCs are suckered into it with promises of wealth and a region of there own in the years to come.
Having stayed miles away from this element of GKR Id love to know if the underhanded tactics of gaining membership were done under instruction from on high or if they were how the SDCs chose to sell the product? And be honest J
A few points that I would like to raise in GKRs defence:
[1]      You having trained with them for 2-3 months I would have been outraged if you had gone up more than 1 belt.  As a side point doesnt this acknowledgment fly in the face of the person that stated in this style you can get black in a year???
[2]      In the years I have been with this style I have not come across any backstabbing or bitching in the area that I train.  I train at open dojos and seniors and find the people to be kind, humble and respectful of each other.  Whilst I openly acknowledge I have never trained with the SDCs and if you are adamant that this is what its like in those training sessions then I have no first hand experience to argue against this point.
[3]      I would like to point out here that there is a world of difference between the shady world of the GKR business practices and the training itself.  Ill quite happily stand up for the karate element of GKR as from my experience it has been hard work, thought provoking and very enjoyable however I have no intention of standing up for how they run the business side.
Cheers all and look forward to continuing this discussion.  Ow and the Kick them in the bollocks line is hilarious  can just picture the SDC walking to the door hi im a self defence consultant from gkr  wack  defend that


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## Rhys

Hi there, let me introduce myself, Im an Instructor with GKR, in Australia.  

What people are saying about GKR is just crap; sure we do go around knocking on doors; however we are NOT trying to suck people into doing something they don't want to do.  I'm sure SDC's in the past have tried to do this (by signing up disabled people etc) however most people are just letting people know what is available.

Let me take you back before I started, I was assaulted and was looking at starting something that might help me better defend myself. I did not know where to go, where to look, so I just did nothing about it.  Then one day a guy came knocking on my door, he just told me that there were different locations around running karate classes.  I was interested, and said so.  He took my details and came back later and sat down with myself and parents.  He did not try and push me into enrolling but just told me the benefits of doing karate. If not for self defense but maybe fitness, confidence among other things.

I attended my first class and loved it, 7 years later Im still here.

I must admit, I was a SDC for a short while, and did not quit because I hated it, only because I started studying at the UNI and had no time to do both.  But during that time I did not feel like I was sucking people into something, I was just letting them know what was out there. LOTS of people I enrolled are still doing it to this day, and when I signed them up they told me they have wanted to do something, but did not know where to go to start. Also, i used to make well over $700 a week, so Icarius, just because you made a small amount does not mean that is what happens everywhere, some weeks i made crap money, but others make up for the bad weeks.  It depends on how well you can explain your product, some people sell heaps of vaccum cleaners and some sell none, just depends on the person.  GKR sells a sport, and they are not saying its a expensive sport, i signed people up for $48 for 3 months and a free upgrade if they acheive their yellow belt within 3 month.

I can tell you, i have joined a guym paid the $100 joining fee, plus the monthly fee and hated it, and lost my joining fee, and paid a few months. GKR says, give it a go, $48 dollars and if you don't like it then its not a big loss.

I signed a 73 year old up one day, i knocked on his door, and though, probably to old, i was suprises that he said he was interested, he just lost his wife, had bad circulation in his feet and wanted to try something. I told him that if he did not like it i would refund his money no questions asked. He tried it and called me and said his feet just did not agree with him, i sent a cheque in the mail straight away.


About the classes that are run, different instructors run different types of classes.  I personally like to run a hard class, where people get a good workout, and have fun at the same time. Some focus on different areas.  I do like to include street self defense into my classes, as I also take Krav Maga classes, and include a bit of that into my GKR class.

I don't know what people think a karate class looks like, what just all fighting. I CAN tell you, GKR focus largely on the basics and its great they do, I remember when I was a yellow belt, I was attacked by a guy that was after my friend, he did not get even one punch in, I instinctively went into a fighting stance with my hands in a defensive position.

So as you can see GKR is not all evil, like every style, business there is people that will do the wrong thing, which does not mean its all bad

So before you judge a style, learn a bit about it before making a decision.

Of course there is people here that hate GKR, and thats fine, its not everyone's cuppa tea, some people have tried it and found it to be bad, but remember that is a small percentage of GKR, there is thousands of instructors, you might have just went to a class with a instructor that does not suit you. I know i have


Rhys


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## cstanley

Just another BS made up modern style. There seems to be a lot of that here.


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## bignick

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.  This forum is not to be used for fraud busting or personal attacks.

-Nick Olson
-MT Moderator-


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## thetruth

My view on any art is as follows.  As long as the practitioners get what they need to out of it the door knocking and the fact that the founder was a bown belt before he started doesn't really matter.  If you are getting fit and what not just enjoy it.  As long as no false claims are made who really cares
Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## thetruth

thetruth said:


> My view on any art is as follows.  As long as the practitioners get what they need to out of it the door knocking and the fact that the founder was a bown belt before he started doesn't really matter.  If you are getting fit and what not just enjoy it.  As long as no false claims are made who really cares
> Cheers
> Sam:asian:



brown belt that is


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## cstanley

thetruth said:


> My view on any art is as follows. As long as the practitioners get what they need to out of it the door knocking and the fact that the founder was a bown belt before he started doesn't really matter. If you are getting fit and what not just enjoy it. As long as no false claims are made who really cares
> Cheers
> Sam:asian:


 
So, the end justifies the means? Interesting...


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## Haze

I'm still wondering about GKR's "*acrobatics of GoJu*". I've trained for 20yrs on and off in this style and must have missed the class on acrobatics. 

The goju I study is a close quarters fighting art. Some kicks, basicly low, strikes, joint locks, softer circular blocks and circular movement versus linear movement as in Shotokan. Acrobatics? One jumping front kick in the 12 traditional goju kata.


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## thetruth

cstanley said:


> So, the end justifies the means? Interesting...



No the means aren't necessarily justified but if you are getting fit and enjoying it what harm is it doing?   If you want martial arts steeped in tradition and they tell you they are so you keep training there then there are issues.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## cstanley

The Go Kan ryu stuff makes pretensions to being traditional. It isn't. So, don't play games with "we are a mix of Shotokan and Goju." That is just nonsense. Sure, fine for folks who don't give a hoot about traditional karate, but some newbies who do not know how to make those judgements may be mislead by something pretending to be a traditional ryu that isn't. Plus, it is an insult to those who do practice traditional arts for wannabees to act like they are doing the same thing. Not to mention the fact that somebody mixing Shotokan and Goju is just a side-splitting, knee slapping hoot to anyone who knows the tiniest little thing about traditional karate. But, as someone said, "just as long as you are having fun...."


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## mrs karate

hi
you forgot to mention if a person does not have the money to join they should borrow it from the childs money box or the neighbours or any passing stranger.
its terrible that a person cant watch before they desided after all you wouldnt buy a car with out looking first.
ou also forgot instructorsdont get paid but get a loyalty payment once a year which if you are lucky likje me you will be stiched up and loose your £300+ tho you have paid for babysitters and petrol etc.
you also forgot even if you dont get any members you still have to pay £35 a week for card purchase even tho you havnt used any cards.
what about when you knock on the door and the people start saying your script because gkr have been there every week for a year.
why keep doing it you ask..............because you are promised you will become a manager and earn lots of dosh..........wrong what about the others who are promised the same not enough areas for everyone
and never never never upset the top idiot or you will go nowhere backwards
take my advice if you feel you have to train with them beware you are just the way for them to make money..........train more often to get there quicker you will be more skint cos you still have to do the right amount of months
but remember NEVER NEVER NEVER work for them


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## panther04

well i have not many good things to say about GKR, i have a small is club in the uk, and been doing martial arts for 21years, and my club has been running for about 8 or 9 years, gkr opened a class in the same venue i was using, its a long story but top and bottom the canversing guys were outside my class everyweek with flyers etc? eventualy i got booted out the venue as a rumor had been started (i found out it was the so called senior instructor) that my insurance documents were fake. that was that the people i hired the hall off told me to stop the class!. it only started when a group of people turned up at my class saying somone had knocked at there door from my club? well i let them train as i would any other new student, and thats when all the slagging off started, i ended up moving about 4 miles out from my old venue. no time for them at all.


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## thetruth

At the end of the day it's a watered down version of something marketed in such a way to make Robert Sullivan rich.  He has somewhere in the region of 30000 students world wide.  It's the king of McDojos

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## kindred21101982

I do *Go Kan Ryu* and its like all other martial arts you get you good practioners and your bad ones. I can say this that in *South Australia* the standard of GKR student and teacher is much much higher than anywhere else it is taught.

I have done many types of fighting
Tae Kwon Do - Jido Kwan
Hap Ki Do - Moo Hak Kwan
Thai Boxing - random thai boxing gym i found in the city 
Boxing - some old legend that i met though a security guard at work he got sick and i have never heard from it again
*MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) - Golden Knights <I currently do>*
*Karate - Go Kan Ryu <I currently do>*


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## Aim

I'm in Australia by the way so this relates to East coast Australian GKR

Dont want to criticise too much, GKR seems like it varies in areas or from person to person, but it has become the butt of most inter school jokes in my city. No one i have spoken too about them who has had a door knocker come to their house can take them seriously. It didnt help their case when back in high school  was  talking to a friend who was looking to do some told me and about how he had been offered, like so many in my neighborhood 'gold life time membership' which i laughed at with him replying "what? they cant be serious! what are they a buisness?" when a guy in another class turns around and nearly threw a fit "shut up shut up you dont any about it" (and continued something like this) then huffered away. Then slowly over the years that followed i have heard about people who have left it or people who used to other sports/marital arts and joined it after. They were all very similar, stories of people being able to buy their way up the ranks (not without training but fast tracking), particuly in one case i heard where they asked a girl who had not been with them long, would not have been any longer then a year, offered a black belt (for a small fee) and in exchange she would become a teacher, they were apparently running low.   

My schools only run in with GKR was at the "all styles" tournament one year, the judges were all GKR and so were about 80% of the competitors, then there was us and a few other stragler clubs. It seemed like a publicity event more then a chance to interact with other schools. Their forms looked VERY similar to Tang Soo forms, so before i knew much about them thought they might be an offshoot. Needless to say all my instructers were horrified at their technique and discipline. But the judges didnt seem to notice, giving them most awards in forms (we got a couple at most), even we thought that the 'dragon style folk were awsome" Of course we blitzed the free fighting, as they didnt seem to have the confidense. 

But the point of that was not a person in our school who saw them perfom that day has much respect from them. They were a big school but i think they needed to look at spending more time on each student then on increasing their numbers and profit.


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## martmc82

i have also worked for GKR and willsay they are the biggest con merchants going. for the follwing reasons:

1) they teach a non contact style of karate, which is only because it is cheaper for them in terms of insurance. this is no use in a real world situation.
2) not one of the instructors in the 20 dojos in my area had reached shodan
3) my sensei who was a  3rd dan, had never took a kick to the kidneys, how he wears that belt defies beleif.
4) as an employee you are expected to knock at houses in the dark wearing black tracksuit bottoms, and ask for 25 pound in cash for a club they have never heard of. the average wage between my team was around 10 pound per week!!!!!!!!!!!

further to this, i left GKR and went to work for a local mma gym.  when i started the manager of my new gym said he had met area manager of GKR at a petrol station, and the GKR manager had said to him that they only pay employees in training, (4.5 hours a week in total by the way) and they can make bits and bobs from selling memberships.

I have actually met Robert Sullivan, and he is a complete slimeball.  The man is only interested in money, he spent the whole time talking about his new multi million house he has had built in australia, which to be fair sounds impressive, but has been built on money made from conning people into training in what i would call a kick fit class, as it isnt a martial art.

AVOID GKR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kyokushin_Tim

I am ashamed to say that I am a former instructor of GKR. As you can read by my name though Ive moved on to Kyokushin. 

GKR is an AMWAY based system designed to pull in as much money as they can as quickly as they can. Most of the negative stuff written about them in here is true. Let me reveal a few more things though....

1. Expansion is the key to wealth!

Each region has a regional manager (RM). One of the first things they are told about is how expansion will help them get rich. GKR plans for 1000 students in each region (at least) and has plans to expand to have 1000 regions worldwide. With each lesson the student/customer pays a fee (roughly $9 Australian) per lesson. The RM gets about 40% of the total profits that their region makes each week from what Ive been told. (Sullivan gets his cut, then the senior instructors and Zone directors, then the RM gets their percentage.)

So this is what they think their system deserves each week if they achieve their goal.

 $9000 x 1000 = $9m. thats the plan....scary and selfish. 

In late 2008 Robert Sullivan (Founder and chairman however I wont refer to him by his self given title of Kancho, grading himself from Nidan to Godan and calling himself a Shihan before being graded further by his peers is quite enough ego for one person.) Had an accident while four-wheel-driving on his very large multi million dollar property and injured his back. So sore and injured he couldn't drive; the poor dear decided *to fly his damn helicopter and land it in the park next to the venue of a GKR blackbelt grading!!* How do I know this you ask? I saw it first hand as I was there. I knew several people that were grading and decided to go watch and provide moral support. To add the icing on my cake of disgust, he wore a rolex watch (I got close after the grading and saw it for myself) while wearing his Gi during the grading. Big No No in traditional karate.


2. A style based on simplicity is EXTREMELY effective!

This is one of their favorite sayings...lets expand on this....

The style does not have many techniques in its basics (they generally dont know the correct term for basics in Japanese is kihon because they are too busy on the business side of things). This is because if people can learn it quick they can start teaching quick. People who have had not even a years worth of training ie 6th kyu (green belt in their system) or even lower can run a class. In return they get free training...on the condition that they help with running gradings and tournaments and such as well.

Here is how simple it is. A lot of the movements in their higher grade katas have techniques not used in their kihon. This is a rough transcription when I was still training with them. My Sandan (3rd Dan) RM was running the class. We were doing a Kata called Empi and about the 4th move in you perform a hooking punch at body level in Kiba dachi. (I now know this is called Kagi/kage tsuki through Kyokushin)

Me: "Sensei, what is this technique called?" (As I preformed the technique)
3rd Dan RM: "pffft...I dunno.....body rip? What the point, does it really matter?"

Ah simplicity.


3. GKR is awesome because they win at NAS.

First of all, NAS (National All Styles) is a non-contact tournament circus open to all styles. 

-Most of the judges in the Australian circuit are GKR. 
-Most of the competitors are GKR
-Shihan Stacy Karetsian (GKR)is the Vice President of the WASO (World All Styles Orginisation - the step up worldwide version of NAS)
-Only selected specially trained GKR students with tournament specific training are allowed to enter NAS. (The state teams) This is to prevent them from having regular students entering causing embarrassment when they enter their dismal performances under the "quality" tuition from their 7th kyu instructors.

When the GKR decided (whether out of curiosity or arrogance) to put their finest "fighters" in full contact tournaments (Kyokushin and several mixed style contact tournaments ) and they got nasty surprises. Broken jaws, fractures around the eye sockets and several trips to hospitals soon taught them better. ( I know who they are but I wont name them in case they are reading this and feel offended by what Im saying....but they know who they are...) In late 2008 selected members of to to Japan to train and compete. 3 times GKR world champion Sensei Anthony Ryan was KO'd and sent to hospital by a Japanese fighter.

GKR does not allow cross training. They don't like its practitioners training in other arts in case they leave. However, several of the tournament team members especially they higher ranked and more influencing members now have permission to train with other styles to give them and edge in these kinds of things. Subsequently they have improved and do well in Koshiki and other tournaments.



Now I know I have said many things here that will probably offend GKR members, however that is not my intent. What I want to make very clear is this. *I* *do not have a problem with the people who train in GKR.* Most of its practitioners are polite respectable people who generally know most of the negative things about their system, however still train because they enjoy the injury free training and the social interaction with other members. There are members of my immediate family who train in GKR (however they dont like the money spins and political pressure they face from the system). *However, I have a major problem with the con-man style system that values money over the development of its loyal students and taking advantage of the uneducated, unaware people who are interested in learning a traditional martial art!! My disgust is aimed at the system and those who promote that system out of their own arrogance and greed!!

*There is more A LOT MORE. But most of it has been covered in this forum already...None of what I have said here is a lie. It is all from my own experience - not horror stories told to me by some ex-member. I am an ex member and very glad that I am.

Do not hate the people of GKR. They are only enjoying a hobby while trying to stay fit, even if they they know (and they do) that there are many other ways to do so. The system and its owners/promoters have a ot of things to answer for. Any questions about they myths of GKR I can probably answer as a spent a few years there and learned how it operated.

Enjoy many years of hard and disciplined training to those who value the meanings of traditional arts.

OSU!!


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## Cirdan

Kyokushin_Tim said:


> To add the icing on my cake of disgust, he wore a rolex watch (I got close after the grading and saw it for myself) while wearing his Gi during the grading


 
Pricelessly funny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He must be the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of martial arts. "I Pity the Fool who does not train GKR!"


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## dancingalone

I can't imagine training at a school where they solicited students by knocking on doors.  Just seems a little too nontraditional to me.


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## Sukerkin

I've had the same experience myself when I was accosted whilst gardening - even after finding out she was selling for GKR, I was still polite, if bemused by door-to-door sales tactics for a martial art. 

But on persistence past the third refusal, I got a little blunter. I won my 'freedom' by explaining that I was graded both in kung fu and MJER iaido, had experience in the arts reaching back to my 'teens and was not interested in an art that carried such a reputation. They left me alone after that.

-------------------

However, even given that personal experience, as a Moderator I have to remind everyone reading this thread that we do not condone or permit 'style bashing' here at MartialTalk.  There is plenty of anecdotal 'evidence' out in WebLand about GKR's nature - we don't need to add to it.

Anyone who is interested in it will study it - it's not up to 'us' to make their decisions for them.


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## mixedup

Sorry for dragging up an old thread here guys, but I felt I should briefly mention GKR in New Zealand.

A few years back I trained in genuine siorinji kempo for a few years, achieving 3rd kyu brown belt. (Our Kancho had moved to Kyoto city during ww2 and adopted the Japanese names for things). I also hold a degree in sport sciences.

I recently started training again , now in GKR as the dojo is walking distance from my house. Keep in mind I've had a 15 year beak from any MA. 

One of the most picked on issues in GKR by other styles is the use of sub- Shodan instructors wearing a black and white belt. One of the instructors I regularly train with is (or was last time I saw her wearing her grade belt) actually 6th Kyu green belt. She has also done the Sensei training program, along with weekly instructor classes. 

A few weeks back she corrected a few faults I was making, and I was pleasantly surprised that she REALLY knew her stuff. These weren't glaring in-your-face type mistakes either, but really subtle little things. I didn't even realise I was making them until she pointed them out in the mirror. 

That confirmed for me that, at least in my local Dojo, the standards are decently high, and the instructors and students can be proud to train there.

I also recently attended a GKR tournament, just as a parent and spectator this time, and liked what I saw. The standards seemed pretty close to the WKF tournies I used to compete in too, although the scoring system for the latter has changed since then.

Can't wait to compete in the next one, with age and grade divisions, I might have a chance!

Arigato.


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## K-man

Years ago, with pressures of work, I quit my Goju Kai training to concentrate on family and business. I always thought I would go back but weeks turned into months and months turned into years. Then came that knock on the door from this clean cut young guy and it immediately reignited my interest. So I signed up. 

The young guy was running the classes and in fairness they weren't too bad as far as basic classes go, except or the bits that were obviously very wrong. Now this young guy was running round with his black belt doing his teaching and me in my new white belt was asking him about various things to which he had no answers. He delighted in telling everyone that I used to be a black belt. (GKR is all about the money so outside ranks have no place even though Robert Sullivan Han come from Goju Kai, but I digress.) 

I remember one night sparing with this woman (a greenbelt from memory) and I touched her gi with a strike, not in an inappropriate spot or anything like that. Well she went ballistic. No one had told me that you couldn't make contact! Well I continued on and young mate turned up one night, all excited. He had just been awarded his black belt. Hang about, didn't I say that he was a young black belt when I started? Seems that it looks better if the guy teaching is wearing a black belt even if he hasn't earned it. He was actually a junior brown belt.

I trained long enough to make two gradings then I went in a tournament. First round my opponent danced about out of reach, kiaied and was awarded a point. When I asked why, I hadn't attempted to block. Mmm! I couldn't have blocked even had I wanted to because he was way out of range. Never mind, I moved in and tapped him lightly on the ribs. I was immediately warned that doing that again would be immediate disqualification and he was given another point. I can't remember how I lost the last point but you get the idea.

A few days later I came across some of the guys I used to train with. I went over to them, had my rank restored and trained happily for a number of years until politics ruined a good relationship.

There are obviously some good people in GKR but I found the quality of the teaching and knowledge and understanding lacking. In hindsight there is no way I would have joined but you do what you thing is right at the time, and in this case it did get me back into training.
:asian:


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## Mauthos

One thing I always found funny regarding GKR was that with it being founded in Austrailia that you can rearrage Go Kan Ryu to basically say Kan Go Ryu (kangaroo).  No idea if this is intentional, but makes me chuckle.


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## mixedup

Mauthos said:


> you can rearrage Go Kan Ryu to basically say Kan Go Ryu (kangaroo).  No idea if this is intentional, but makes me chuckle.



Pretty sure that was deliberate, I read it somewhere.

Makes me chuckle too!


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## RTKDCMB

Here is a site where they are defending claims about them, this particular page tries to defend poorly qualified instructors.

http://www.gkrkaratescam.com/instructors.html


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## K-man

RTKDCMB said:


> Here is a site where they are defending claims about them, this particular page tries to defend poorly qualified instructors.
> 
> http://www.gkrkaratescam.com/instructors.html



I think it is trying to defend the practice of using non black belt instructors wearing black belts.  That was one of the things that I find wrong. If the guy is a green belt he wears a green belt. Simple. No black belts, white stripe or otherwise.


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## Grenadier

Interesting web address for someone trying to defend the system...

I have issues with the assertions in the article.  



> You don&#8217;t  need to be a master to teach beginners
> Tradesmen often ask an experienced apprentice to teach a new  apprentice  the basics, just as high school students are very rarely  taught by professors. How  often does Stephen Hawking teach a school  physics class, or Seb Coe teach a  school gym class?



High school students aren't going to be taught by professors for the most part.  They're taught by people who have a bachelor's or master's degree, and underwent certifications.  Either way, they're not being taught by other high school students, unless it's in a peer tutoring session.  Even then, the tutoring session will be conducted by a student who is significantly more advanced than the one being tutored.  

The teachers of a high school are still going to have a significantly greater degree of mastery of the subject being taught, than your average high school student, assuming that you don't have some amazing prodigy on your hands as a teacher.  After all, we can't all have dojo's stocked full of Jigoro Kano types...  



> Personality  is more important for an instructor than knowledge
> Don&#8217;t get me wrong, knowledge is vital.  However it is not  knowledge or even martial ability that; excites,  motivates,  disciplines, builds character, or develops loyalty in students.  Those  are a matter of personality and teaching skill. I have met many martial   arts instructors from other styles who have high grades and often  impressive  martial ability, but are poor instructors or worse; terrible  human beings. In  the martial arts industry it is well known &#8220;students  start for the karate but  they stay for the instructor&#8221;. Our instructors  are selected for their  personalities and their enthusiasm and  commitment to karate, so you and your  family can be assured of the most  motivating and encouraging karate experience.



I agree that much of the teaching is dependent on its presentation.  After all, serving someone a perfectly cooked filet mignon steak on a dirty ash tray is probably not too productive.  However, the instructor at hand must still have at least a decent modicum of knowledge, or else it simply becomes an enthusiastic person teaching poor techniques.  If anything, I frown upon such "instructors," since their students are more likely to get hurt in some way shape or form.  

In that case, you end up developing students who have awful fundamentals, and having them unlearn such fundamentals takes a lot of time...


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## RTKDCMB

Grenadier said:


> Interesting web address for someone trying to defend the system...
> 
> I have issues with the assertions in the article.
> 
> 
> 
> High school students aren't going to be taught by professors for the most part.  They're taught by people who have a bachelor's or master's degree, and underwent certifications.  Either way, they're not being taught by other high school students, unless it's in a peer tutoring session.  Even then, the tutoring session will be conducted by a student who is significantly more advanced than the one being tutored.
> 
> The teachers of a high school are still going to have a significantly greater degree of mastery of the subject being taught, than your average high school student, assuming that you don't have some amazing prodigy on your hands as a teacher.  After all, we can't all have dojo's stocked full of Jigoro Kano types...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that much of the teaching is dependent on its presentation.  After all, serving someone a perfectly cooked filet mignon steak on a dirty ash tray is probably not too productive.  However, the instructor at hand must still have at least a decent modicum of knowledge, or else it simply becomes an enthusiastic person teaching poor techniques.  If anything, I frown upon such "instructors," since their students are more likely to get hurt in some way shape or form.
> 
> In that case, you end up developing students who have awful fundamentals, and having them unlearn such fundamentals takes a lot of time...



This is me agreeing to everything you just said.


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## realkarateninja2

i use to train under gkr 5 years ago but there technique was horrible and getting teach by a sensei that wear a black and white belt and knowing they not great in there karate.. the door to door sale work by commission and more or less trying to scam people on signing up to a karate style that doesnt do a thing in real life i was just a orange belt than and i quite that style when i moved away from that area and join up with Wado Kai or Wado Ryu style enjoying more contact sparring and i do compete from time to time recently graded to my green belt and we allow to do take down unlike gkr and always teach bye a 1st kyu or a black belt never tough bye a lower grade unless we are practicing our grading kata together


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