# Newbie Needs Advice



## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

I am brand new to the forum and to martial arts/self defense and need some help choosing which discipline to start in.  Here is some background about myself:

40 year old male
never involved any any sort of martial arts before
6'2" 210 lbs - I'm in fairly good shape.  I lift weights (bench, deadlifts and squats) 2 to 3 times a week.  I wouldn't consider myself strong but I do have some muscle.  My cardio could probably use some work and my optimal weight would be around 190 lbs.
I have a desk job but am pretty active outside of work (yard work, house improvement projects, helping kids with sports, etc).
I have two kids (7 and 13).  My wife supports me in getting involved in some sort of martial arts/self defense and may get involved eventually herself.
     I am looking for a discipline that provides the following in order of importance:

Self defense of myself and/or loved ones - I haven't been in a fight in over 15 years and don't find myself in dangerous situations really, but I would like the piece of mind just in case.
Confidence - I'm a stereotypical "nice guy" and would love to find a discipline that gives my confidence, the way a carry myself and my overall presentation a bit of a boost.  Maybe a bit of "edginess" for lack of a better term.
Fitness - Like I said, I would like to loose approximately 20 pounds, so an activity that helps (I'm also working on my diet) would be a bonus.
Eventually may be able to teach my wife and kids some self defense from what I learn.  My daughter is 13 and I worry about her safety in today's society.
     I'm not really interested in a discipline steeped in tradition, one that is based upon a lot of discipline (I'm 40 years old so not so worried about this aspect) and aren't worried about fancy robes/garb.

     So I ideally would like to get involved in Krav Maga.  It seems to have all the qualities I'm looking for and I've wanted to get involved in it for over 5 years now.  My problem is that it isn't offered locally.  I live in the far west suburbs of Chicago, Illinois, and up until a  couple of months ago, the closest location offering such classes  was around 45 minutes away (lots of traffic) and only offers beginner classes at 7:30 on Tuesday and Thursday nights.  The facility is run by a Certified Level 5 USKMA Krav Maga Instructor and Certified AFAA Kickboxing instructor and is an United States Krav Maga Association member. I think it would be really difficult to attend training classes regularly due to the distance and late classes (kids sports and I getting up at 5 AM for work would make it difficult).

     A new facility recently opened that is only 25 minutes away.  It's only been open since March and beginner classes are only offered on Saturdays (a better time for me but only one class time a week leaves less flexibility).  The instructor is a Level 1 United States Krav Maga Association certified instructor and will be suppose to take her Level 2 Instructor Testing in April (I haven't talked to her since then). She trains as a Level 3/4 Student at the first facility I mentioned.
     My other option is to take a different discipline.  For example, Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do, Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido and a couple of self-defense classes are all offered in our town and are within 5- 10 minutes from our house.  Any of these would be more convenient but I don't feel that they fit my criteria as well.

     So I can't decide if I should 1) Enroll in the further Krav Maga program which has been around for a long time and seems to have the most experienced instructors; 2) Enroll at the closer and more convenient Krav Maga program; or 3) look at a discipline.  Any and all suggestions/advice are greatly appreciated!


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## EddieCyrax (May 19, 2015)

Have you visited the Krav Maga schools and shared your concerns with the instructors?

Have you taken an introduction class at these schools?

If not, this might help you decide your next direction.

As it relates to other styles, there is a lot available even outside your list that will offer you all the traits you outlined above..

To provide guidance related to another style,what about Krav Maga has drawn your interest?


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## Tony Dismukes (May 19, 2015)

The best class for you is the one that you will actually make it to on a consistent  basis. Unless martial arts are a top priority in your life and you are in love with a particular school, you will probably not be consistent making it to a school that requires a long drive and has inconvenient times.

The closer Krav Maga school might be worthwhile. I would suggest you pay it a visit, try a class, and see if you like the atmosphere and the instruction. If not, Chicago has plenty of good martial arts instruction in a variety of styles that should meet your criteria.

When you say "far west suburbs", can you be a little more specific? It might help us find something convenient for you.


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Thanks for the response EddieCyrax.  I was planning on visiting one of the two Krav Maga schools to take an introductory class.  Like I said earlier, the one that is further away seems to be better (because of the instructor's experience and how long it's been around) but I think I may be less apt to really get into it due to the time and hassle involved with the travel.  
     I am drawn to Krav Maga for a number of reasons.  I first heard about it when my wife and I were on our honeymoon approximately 9 years ago and met another couple who were involved and loved it.  Ever since then I've wanted to start in it but distance was always stopped me.  I like Krav Maga because it is seems pretty straight-forward (not a lot of fancy moves and time spent emphasizing tradition) and effective (I like that it incorporates weapons and multiple attackers).  I'm not really interested in disciplines that emphasize more on wrestling techniques (never appealed to me).


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Thanks Tony Dismukes.  I live in Yorkville which is just west of Oswego and southwest of Aurora.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 19, 2015)

If I could advise you I would recommend John Bednarski in Chicago.  He teaches Tatlo Pusaka Senjata.  John has a wide range of training in Southeast Asian Martial Arts and is an excellent teacher.  It is not Krav but in my opinion if you are training for personal protection a better choice.  Though, it's location may not be where you are looking to train as I am not sure if the location is close to you.


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Thanks Brian.  Looks like the Tatlo Pasaka Senjata school is located near Midway which is over an hour from me unfortunately.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 19, 2015)

There's a Kajukembo school right there in Yorkville that might meet your criteria. They offer 2 free classes, so I would definitely check them out. Empower Training Systems Empower Training Systems Martial Arts


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Thanks Tony.  Any advice/things I should be looking for/questions I should be asking when I pick a school?


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## Shai Hulud (May 19, 2015)

The best option is the one you'll be willing to commit yourself to indefinitely. That KM center closer to your place sounds like a good place to start. Just check and make sure everything checks out. 

ALSO, grab hold of a kettlebell!


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Would it wrong to attend classes at more than one school?  For example, if I do decide on the Krav Maga, would it be wrong to attend classes at both schools I mentioned depending on my schedule?  Is once a week of training enough?


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## Shai Hulud (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Would it wrong to attend classes at more than one school?  For example, if I do decide on the Krav Maga, would it be wrong to attend classes at both schools I mentioned depending on my schedule?  Is once a week of training enough?


It depends on what you're training. As you may well know, MMA fighters usually have several different coaches to help cover their entire arsenal. It's more complete, but also more costly and time-consuming, and requires management. I'd personally recommend just sticking with one school, since in the early stages of education the development of good, constructive habits and mastery of the essentials is key. Attending two schools with possibly two different curricula might confuse you. They might also have their own takes on and tweaks of techniques, when mastering the basics will help you critique the different variations. It's like learning Spanish and Portuguese at the same time - possible, but the number of overlaps may hinder progress.

Perhaps for your first few months or years, I'd advise sticking to one school and acquainting yourself to with the fundamentals to the extent that they become second-nature and thus, a solid base for your martial arts practice. Later on you can take up a second art or attend at another school, which is akin to gaining a new perspective on the subject (Self-Defense).


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Thanks Shai.  I think I was a bit confusing.  I was wondering if it would be okay to attend both Krav Maga schools.  That way I have more options on times and days.  Also, since the instructor of the closer is training at the further school, I would think both would be okay with this?


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## Shai Hulud (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Thanks Shai.  I think I was a bit confusing.  I was wondering if it would be okay to attend both Krav Maga schools.  That way I have more options on times and days.  Also, since the instructor of the closer is training at the further school, I would think both would be okay with this?


Instructor's discretion. 

I'm a kettlebell and bodyweight training instructor on the side, and I have no issues with my students learning from other coaches or trainers, so long as it doesn't mess up their technique - particularly when they're with me.

My issue with your possible attending both schools -even on different days-, is that they might have different curricula, and may have their own little augmentations to techniques. It might be confusing if you're just starting out, is my concern. If you feel though that you can manage this, then by all means. Different strokes for different folks - see what works for you.


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## EddieCyrax (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Thanks Shai.  I think I was a bit confusing.  I was wondering if it would be okay to attend both Krav Maga schools.  That way I have more options on times and days.  Also, since the instructor of the closer is training at the further school, I would think both would be okay with this?



There can be differences between schools instructing the same style.  Instructors may have tweaked curriculum based on their own experiences.  As you are a self proclaimed beginner, I would lean towards Shai Hulud's previous post.

That said, it "might" be possible with full transparency to both school's instructors.  Then again, these schools may not allow for this.  They may not wish to discuss elementary theory with a novice who is just beginning to learn or deal with the differences.  

I personally would advise against two schools at once of the same style.   

Just my $0.02


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Here are the two links:

Self Defense Training Self Defense Classes Krav Maga Glen Ellyn IL (further)

www.sfkm.net (closer)


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## EddieCyrax (May 19, 2015)

I am not a Krav practicioner....I will let those with more experience give you feedback on these schools.

This said, I would still advise you go visit and speak to them....This will be the most revealing method to answer 90% of you questions.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Thanks Tony.  Any advice/things I should be looking for/questions I should be asking when I pick a school?


There are a lot of questions I would ask that wouldn't helpful for you because you don't have the experience or background to evaluate the answers.

Do ask questions about the practical matters - class times, expenses, etc. A lot of schools have hidden costs in addition to the monthly fees - belt testing fees, association membership fees, etc. Make sure you have that all spelled out.

Do take advantage of the free trial classes. The biggest predictor of your success in martial arts training is your consistency in training. If you don't find the classes interesting and enjoyable, you won't keep showing up consistently. Use the free classes to find out if the school feels right for you.

Find out if the school has separate classes for beginning and advanced students. If so, ask to watch one of the advanced classes to get a feel for how the senior students look. If the advanced students don't look skillful, that's not a good sign.

Don't be afraid to visit every school in the vicinity to watch classes, try free classes if they offer them, and get a feel for them before you commit to one school. You might discover that you are attracted to a different art than you expected to be based on written descriptions.

If you end up taking Krav Maga, I wouldn't be in a big rush to sign up for both schools. Usually the only people who can maintain training in multiple places are people who are absolutely fanatical about their martial arts, and you don't know yet whether you will be one of those people.


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## EddieCyrax (May 19, 2015)

This is a little late.....Welcome to MT.....I wish you the best in your research/training....check in and let us know where you end up.....


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## crazydiamond (May 19, 2015)

Do you also work in the general area you live? Just thinking if you commute elsewhere there might be other places close to work.


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## justanormalguy (May 19, 2015)

Work in Plainfield and unfortunately there are no schools further south than Spitfire.


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## crazydiamond (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Work in Plainfield and unfortunately there are no schools further south than Spitfire.


 
Closest Suggestion I can come up with - The Carlson Gracie MMA Team Mixed Martial Arts Boxing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Muay Thai Kickboxing and Wrestling


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## Tony Dismukes (May 19, 2015)

crazydiamond said:


> Closest Suggestion I can come up with - The Carlson Gracie MMA Team Mixed Martial Arts Boxing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Muay Thai Kickboxing and Wrestling


Great school, and one I would likely attend if I lived in the area. (Carlson awarded me my black belt, so I would say that.) However, the best aspect of that school is the BJJ and the OP has said that he's not interested in grappling arts. They do have Muay Thai and boxing classes, but I'm not sure if it's a longer drive than the OP want's to make. If it's not too far, it would be worth checking out.


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## Paul_D (May 19, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> My daughter is 13 and I worry about her safety in today's society.


Teaching her (or learning for yourself) martial arts for the purposes of self defence is like teaching children to do a stuntman roll over the hood of a car for the purposes of road saftey.  You have ignored all of the things they need to learn to avoid being run over in the first place and gone straight to the "**** has hit the fan" stage. 

or, to put it another way, pilots learn how to do emergency crash landings. However, most of their time, effort and training is focused on doing whatever to takes to avoid ever having to get to the stage where one becomes necessary.  Just learning only how to do an emergency crash landing makes you very good at emergency crash landing, but it doesn't make you a pilot.  Learning martial arts makes you good at martial arts, it doesn't make you good at keep yourself safe so you never have to use them.

Not that teaching her (or learning for yourself) physical techniques is a bad thing, but you are focusing your efforts on what to do once everything has gone wrong, if self defence is your main focus your efforts are better focused on preventative measures.

Iain Abernethy uses the following percentages, and I quite like them as in my expedience I think they are about right.

95% of self defence is Threat Awareness and Evaluation, and Target Hardening.
4% is verbal de-escalation
1% is physical (material arts/fighting) techqniues

If you concentrate your efforts on the 99% chances you reduce the chances of ever having to get to the 1%.

I recommend you check out two things.  One is a book called Dead or Alive: The Ultimate Self Protection Handbook by Geoff Thomposn.  It will, amongst many many other things, teach you what criminals (muggers/sexual attackers) look for when selecting their targets.  If you know what they are looking for, you know what to avoid doing, and they will pass you over for an easier victim.  I am also told by people I have leant the book to  that the first third seems aimed at women, although I must admit I never picked upon that when I read it.

Secondly I would recommend you check out the Suzy Lamplugh Trust.  It's a free website, particularly useful for women, which gives practical advise on how to stay safe.

As for what art you should take up, I always say the same thing.  Try everything in your area, and chose the one you enjoy the most because if you enjoy it you are more likely to stick with it, and therefore become good at it


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## donald1 (May 19, 2015)

For new people there are 5 crucial rules
1. Follow ALL of the rules
2. Do NOT break any of the rules
3. Obey rule #2
4. Dont question the rules
5. Do not forget any of the rules

Joking aside... some important things to remember pay attention, give it your best, ask relevant questions when apropriate, practice at home if possible, be serious but its okay to have fun


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## K-man (May 20, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> Thanks for the response EddieCyrax.  I was planning on visiting one of the two Krav Maga schools to take an introductory class.  Like I said earlier, the one that is further away seems to be better (because of the instructor's experience and how long it's been around) but I think I may be less apt to really get into it due to the time and hassle involved with the travel.
> I am drawn to Krav Maga for a number of reasons.  I first heard about it when my wife and I were on our honeymoon approximately 9 years ago and met another couple who were involved and loved it.  Ever since then I've wanted to start in it but distance was always stopped me.  I like Krav Maga because it is seems pretty straight-forward (not a lot of fancy moves and time spent emphasizing tradition) and effective (I like that it incorporates weapons and multiple attackers).  I'm not really interested in disciplines that emphasize more on wrestling techniques (never appealed to me).


By all means take as many introductory classes on offer and watch for the following things. How well can the instructor perform the techniques he is demonstrating. That will generally give an indication of his level of training. I would not be overly concerned with the actual level of the instructor. That can be political and may or may not be an indication of ability. Also, if a top instructor can't get the message across to his students, I wouldn't train there, no matter how good he seems. 

Which brings me to the second point. Look at how well his top students perform. If they look good and their techniques are working, thumbs up for their instruction. Talk to those students and ask why they are training there and how they feel the training goes in terms of being effective and instilling confidence.

And finally, I'll come back to the instructor. In many cases instructors have been taken into Krav as instructors because they have extensive martial art backgrounds. Krav is not rocket science and doesn't take years to learn. There are only a couple of techniques that are pretty much exclusively Krav and a good martial artist with have those off pat in very short time. What I am saying is, in say Aikido, if the teacher didn't have at least six or seven years experience I wouldn't be training there. Not saying the training is bad, but they are not going to have the skills after that small time to teach me what I want. Same for Karate. 

But Krav is different. Every single Krav instructor in the organisation I am part of was a black belt in karate first, many of them above 3rd dan. Some had military backgrounds, others security. Some had been training Systema for years, some kick boxing or Muay Thai, others have black belts in BJJ. A couple of us are also Aikido black belts. Most, if not all have been instructing other styles for years. Within Krav, none would have been Krav instructors for more than two years because it is a new organisation. What I am saying is, look beyond the immediate qualification.

I looked at the syllabus and it is similar to most around. It has a few bits that have been added and that is what Krav is about. Using anything effective you can lay your hands on. I would have no issues going to the nearest class if my concerns listed above are addressed. 

So, good luck with your training. Krav is good training and should be great fun as well.

By the way, I would still check out the guy Brian recommended. That's first hand advice.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 20, 2015)

donald1 said:


> For new people there are 5 crucial rules
> 1. Follow ALL of the rules
> 2. Do NOT break any of the rules
> 3. Obey rule #2
> ...


Wait ... what was rule 5 again?


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## justanormalguy (May 20, 2015)

I talked to the trainer at the closer Krav Maga location (Spitfire Krav Maga).  She said they do not spar in level 1 (they want students to learn and practice the fundamentals of combatives and make them safer in as little amount of time as they can).  They introduce light sparring in Level 2 and progress from there once their students have the philosophy and fundamentals. They do full gear boxing and MMA sparring.

     She also said she is working on adding classes (maybe a week night) but needs to make more classes feasible.  She said she would have no problem with me taking some classes at the further location (Dupage Krav Maga) and is sure the instructor at the other location would be fine with it too (she trains there).  She also said most of her students are concentrating on the self-defense aspect (fitness is secondary) and she has a couple of boxers/trainers that drop in when they don't have classes of their own.  She said she has a couple of guys that would be suitable training partners for me.

    So I think I am going to check it out Saturday and see how it goes.


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## Rich Parsons (May 20, 2015)

I would consider taking a free class or two from anyone you are interested in training with. 
If not available then watch a class or two and make sure you can get along with the instructor. 

I also would add FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) Schools to your list as they have a lot to offer you based upon your first post. 

Good Luck


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## donasidasd (May 20, 2015)

Boxer defends his wife

Video Boxer defends his wife Find Yourself


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## Rich Parsons (May 20, 2015)

donasidasd said:


> Boxer defends his wife
> 
> Video Boxer defends his wife Find Yourself


Where is his wife in the video?


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## Tony Dismukes (May 20, 2015)

justanormalguy said:


> I talked to the trainer at the closer Krav Maga location (Spitfire Krav Maga).  She said they do not spar in level 1 (they want students to learn and practice the fundamentals of combatives and make them safer in as little amount of time as they can).  They introduce light sparring in Level 2 and progress from there once their students have the philosophy and fundamentals. They do full gear boxing and MMA sparring.
> 
> She also said she is working on adding classes (maybe a week night) but needs to make more classes feasible.  She said she would have no problem with me taking some classes at the further location (Dupage Krav Maga) and is sure the instructor at the other location would be fine with it too (she trains there).  She also said most of her students are concentrating on the self-defense aspect (fitness is secondary) and she has a couple of boxers/trainers that drop in when they don't have classes of their own.  She said she has a couple of guys that would be suitable training partners for me.
> 
> So I think I am going to check it out Saturday and see how it goes.


Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


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## VT_Vectis (May 20, 2015)

Hi, welcome to the forum and good luck on your search.

Have you looked at wing chun at all, I know Dominic Izzo is in Chicago and I have heard good things about him and his you tube videos are very thought provoking. He's a former Chicago cop with a wrestling background and his gym/school is located at 
Tower Rd in Schaumburg, Il. Anywhere near you?

Here's a link to his site;

About Izzo Tactical Combat

Good luck at the Krav place, would love to try that some when myself. All the best.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 20, 2015)

VT_Vectis said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum and good luck on your search.
> 
> Have you looked at wing chun at all, I know Dominic Izzo is in Chicago and I have heard good things about him and his you tube videos are very thought provoking. He's a former Chicago cop with a wrestling background and his gym/school is located at
> Tower Rd in Schaumburg, Il. Anywhere near you?
> ...


Unfortunately, that's an hour away from the OP. Too bad, because it might be a good fit for him. (Although I don't know that WC is cardio-intensive enough to help with his weight-loss goal.)


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## VT_Vectis (May 20, 2015)

Ah well, not to worry. 

Izzo does a lot of fitness/cardio etc as part of his training See him on his YT channel; the guys a machine! Lol


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## donald1 (May 20, 2015)

Rich Parsons said:


> Where is his wife in the video?



Imo, im a little skeptic about that post, I saw the exact same post on next poster 2.0


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## Buka (May 20, 2015)

Welcome aboard, bro. Best of luck finding what works for you, please keep us posted.


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## Zero (May 28, 2015)

Paul_D said:


> Teaching her (or learning for yourself) martial arts for the purposes of self defence is like teaching children to do a stuntman roll over the hood of a car for the purposes of road saftey.  You have ignored all of the things they need to learn to avoid being run over in the first place and gone straight to the "**** has hit the fan" stage.
> 
> or, to put it another way, pilots learn how to do emergency crash landings. However, most of their time, effort and training is focused on doing whatever to takes to avoid ever having to get to the stage where one becomes necessary.  Just learning only how to do an emergency crash landing makes you very good at emergency crash landing, but it doesn't make you a pilot.  Learning martial arts makes you good at martial arts, it doesn't make you good at keep yourself safe so you never have to use them.
> 
> ...



Paul-D has also made a good point for you JustANormalGuy.  Understand you want to get into a school you can stick with long term but if "self defence" for yourself and you daughter/wife are a priority and also core driver for your desire to pick up a martial art, it may pay dividends to, alongside or ahead of your [Krav] or whatever school it is, attend some quality (there is some real bad stuff out there!) SD classes and impart this knowledge on your family members.  Also, there are great books out there, perfect for you, your daughter and wife to read - given her age, your daughter may be inclined to tiff the book out the window but no reason why you or/and your wife can't talk her through this stuff.  I would also add to the list "The Gift of Fear".  I read the book, took some good things from it and then passed on to my wife and some female friends at work to read (as personally I thought more of the book was focused on and of value to female readers).  I take the time to explain and go through things with my 5 year old daughter about all kind of "safety" matters and to revisit and reinforce them so they "go home" and "stay home".  There will be many more subjects for a 13 year old to take on board and appreciate.

As said, self defence is primarily about avoiding the nasty situation in the first place, physical defence techniques are being applied pretty late in the SD game...


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