# Genbukan Training Methodology!



## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

Based on the *don't be afraid* thread I thought I would start a thread on the Genbukan training methodology so that we can all get a better understanding of this X-Kan.  While the Genbukan is a derivative of the Bujinkan and a descendant of Budo Taijutsu there are clear differances in how Soke Shoto Tanemura teaches as compared to Hatsumi Soke.  Hopefully some of our Genbukan members can shed some light on their training. (or some new members will come on and tell us about their training as well)  

Here are just some pages that have video links of Genbukan training that I was able to find.

Soke Shoto Tanemura's website
http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site.pl?genbukan_techniques

Richard Roy's Tokyo based dojo and website
http://www.ninpo.org/ninpotechniques/ninpotechniques.html

The USA's leading exponent Kyoshi Michael Coleman's website
http://www.futendojo.com/

Our own Richard Ray's website 
http://www.genbukan-ninpo.com/

Here are some more video clips








 
Hopefully we can start from this base and work outwards learning more about the Genbukan.

Let us not critique but appreciate that these video clips are available to us.


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## makoto-dojo (Jan 27, 2007)

My experience so far is that the Genbukan is a very traditional martial arts Dojo. Training is mostly done in the kata/waza format. Strict attention to detail is observed, with proper maai, kiai and zanshin.

The kihon of the movement is stressed and although henka is also taught, the focus is on the kihon. A typical genbukan class, might consist of daken kihon and rolling and breakfalls then move on to kyu and dan waza done with a partner. Again the basic repeated over and over with strong attention to the details.

Genbukan students may however train in other martial arts that tanemura sensei teaches as well, so for example goshin jutsu is different, Tanemura Sensei has had people knife spar etc. For an example. I have seen belt sparring (and been taught it) Shinai sparring (wearing kendo gear and making contact is actually part of our biken system...) Our chinese martial arts have lock flows and counter for counter drills and many things that actually look like JKD trapping!

So, it depends on what aspect of Soke's art one is doing.

As another example,* I have written permision from Tanemura Soke* to add my own material to the goshinjutsu system, guess what folks *that inludes randori drills.* 

But basic Ninpo classes are like I said above very strict and traditional.

I hope that answers your question. If not I would be happy to clarify further.

Sincerely,


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## saru1968 (Jan 27, 2007)

Well i don't know how to draw out the training methology from the videos without commenting.

Just from the clips present it looks simular to what we do but presented in a more formal, rigid apllication, nothing wrong with that.

Now it maybe the angle of the camera in the Bojutsu clip but the Tori seemed too close to the Uke and the Uke 'seemed' to be standing still, whereas most the time i have seen sword vs Bo it involved alot more moving around. 

Please not none of the above is too be taken as a negative, just observations.


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## mrhnau (Jan 27, 2007)

Thanks for posting this... some nice links. I'm going to check out a Genbukan guy early next week hopefully. I've done some research, so I hope I'll be prepared... I'm likely relocating to a place that has Bujinkan, Jinenkan and Genbukan. I'll have to check them all out


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

mrhnau said:


> Thanks for posting this... some nice links. I'm going to check out a Genbukan guy early next week hopefully. I've done some research, so I hope I'll be prepared... I'm likely relocating to a place that has Bujinkan, Jinenkan and Genbukan. I'll have to check them all out


 
Mrhnau that sounds good check them all out and find the one that fits best for you.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

makoto-dojo said:


> My experience so far is that the Genbukan is a very traditional martial arts Dojo. Training is mostly done in the kata/waza format. Strict attention to detail is observed, with proper maai, kiai and zanshin.
> 
> The kihon of the movement is stressed and although henka is also taught, the focus is on the kihon. A typical genbukan class, might consist of daken kihon and rolling and breakfalls then move on to kyu and dan waza done with a partner. Again the basic repeated over and over with strong attention to the details.
> 
> ...


 
Richard that sounds great.  I would be interested in hearing maybe a technical breakdown of a kata/waza and what you think might be differances between how the Genbukan does it as comapred to how the Bujinkan does the same kata.


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## makoto-dojo (Jan 27, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Richard that sounds great. I would be interested in hearing maybe a technical breakdown of a kata/waza and what you think might be differances between how the Genbukan does it as comapred to how the Bujinkan does the same kata.


 

Hello,

I think that would be a waste of time personally. Maybe if I had nothing else to do and was bored, but that is not the case.  I mean kata are kata..

I hope you understand my point..

Sincerely


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

makoto-dojo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I think that would be a waste of time personally. Maybe if I had nothing else to do and was bored, but that is not the case.  I mean kata are kata..
> 
> ...


 
That is fine Richard.  No problem.


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## Carol (Jan 27, 2007)

What is the difference between Kata and Waza, Brian?   Just asking out of curiosity.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

Hey Carol here is a pretty good description.

http://www.aikidoohana.org/?q=from-harry-fu-defining-kata-from-waza

Hopefully that helps.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 28, 2007)

Here is another Genbukan clip I found :


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 28, 2007)

Still more Genbukan clips. (these were harder to find)

Enjoy.

http://www.genbukan.ie/DakenTaijutsu1.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/DakenTaijutsu2.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/Bitsumetsugeri.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/Bitsumetsugeri.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/UraKoteGyaku.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/KnifeDefense.mpeg
> 
> http://www.genbukan.ie/UraTakiori.mpeg


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## makoto-dojo (Jan 28, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Here is another Genbukan clip I found :


 

FWIW,

This one looks suspect.

No patches on the gi which is VERY strange, and the taijutsu looks very different. Just my opinion, do you know the name of the Dojo?


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## FudoshinDojo (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi,
      One very important point in the Genbukan and KJJR is that Tanemura Sensei always stresses, manners are more important rather than technique. Not to say the technique is not important, not at all, just that manners, etiquette and how you represent yourself is of prime importance. some other things in addition to these points are zanshin and very strong ki and kamae.

sincerely,
Brian Hodges
Renshi
GWNBF/KJJR
Fudoshin Dojo-Cho
http://fudoshindojo.ieasysite.com/


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## Kichigai-no-Okami (Jan 29, 2007)

Brian,
Thanks for those video clips, m'man.  Saved them on my media player.  In these clips that you provided, as well as others that ive seen,  looks as though the presented tiajutsu leans slightly towards a sort of 'aiki' feeling, as well as taking a very 'ka' approach, in contrast to the 'nagare' feeling in the Booj( nothing wrong with that).  Do you see this too? Or is it just 'me'?  

Probably just 'me'.

-Bryan


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## Tenchijin2 (Jan 29, 2007)

Bryan,

It's not so much that it's a 'ka' feeling. It's just that the zanshin and dynamics are more present than in most bujinkan training.  I'm a bujinkan guy, and people have occasionally said the same thing about my taijutsu.

Aside from that, definitions of  ka, sui, etc are often not universal in budo. Even within the bujinkan, what I have come to understand as fu, or sui, or ka, is not the way most americans think of them.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 29, 2007)

Kichigai-no-Okami said:


> Brian,
> Thanks for those video clips, m'man. Saved them on my media player. In these clips that you provided, as well as others that ive seen, looks as though the presented tiajutsu leans slightly towards a sort of 'aiki' feeling, as well as taking a very 'ka' approach, in contrast to the 'nagare' feeling in the Booj( nothing wrong with that). Do you see this too? Or is it just 'me'?
> 
> Probably just 'me'.
> ...


 
No I see that as well. (in a general simplified manner)  Though it would also depend on what Dojo you are training in the Bujinkan and under what instructor.  However your above observation has been made by alot of more knowledgeable people in the Takamatsu den arts than us.  

Glad you liked the clips.  Myself I enjoy seeing all forms of martial art demonstrated.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 29, 2007)

Here is a link to a website with more Genbukan video clips!  Enjoy.

http://www.genbukan.ca/modules.php?name=training


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## makoto-dojo (Jan 29, 2007)

I like these:

http://www.native-earth.org/gbk/media-e.php

Enjoy!


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