# Internal Power Anyone?



## Dudi Nisan (Jan 12, 2017)

This short article is the first in a series of posts I plan to write about internal power, as it is taught and explained by Liu Kangyi, my teacher.



*Who?* Liu Kangyi.  *Where?* Taipei, Lion Books bookstore.



   Internal power exists. There is such a thing, and I am speaking from experience.  It is a singular ability, an imposing skill which can be used to devastating effect in a combat situation (On the other hand, it won’t make you an immortal; you might possess internal power but it won’t make white cranes carry you around. Nor are golden Buddhas going to visit you).  

I am not misleading you. And I am not going to qualify my statement in any way (as in “yes, sure, there is internal power, but you can only witness it once a year, in full moon, if my teacher is able exactly at that moment to channel into himself the God of War”). This power is taught publicly and you can come and experience it too. At each and every class.

    I don’t blame you for being skeptical. You should be. Common sense is something you must never give up. And common sense has taught us that internal power makes no sense. It’s nonsense.

I would like to tell you that I was exactly like you, I would like to tell you that I was skeptical too. But that would not be true. I was way beyond skeptical. I did not give internal power any thought at all. As far as I was concerned internal power was a mumbo jumbo of the most ludicrous kind. Something taken out of a cheap _gongfu_ “novel”; a “story” told by swindlers and sold to the gullible. In other words, I did not think that such a thing as internal power ever existed. And for this reason I wasn’t even looking to find such a thing. Why look for something which you know does not exist? And why look for something which does not exist when there are so much wonderful knowledge out there just waiting for you to “find it”?

But I was wrong. Internal power does exist. And although I wasn’t looking for it, not specifically anyway, I did find it (or maybe it found me. I cannot tell yet).


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## Kickboxer101 (Jan 12, 2017)

So you found it or maybe you didn't? So basically you don't know if it exists that how I read that


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 12, 2017)

Definitely exists!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 12, 2017)

And how does one manifest internal power?
What is it used for?
What are the advantages?


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## mograph (Jan 12, 2017)

How do you _define_ internal power?

Remember, most of us are tired of sales pitches, whether money is involved or not. As a result, from a rhetorical-persuasive standpoint, you're dealing with a _skeptical audience_. It's not skeptical of internal power, but skeptical of _those who claim they have it and claim they understand it._ 

Adjust your rhetoric appropriately.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 12, 2017)

So, if I'm reading this right, what you put in the OP was what your teacher thinks about "internal power" (whatever he thinks that may be). The question is, what do YOU think? It's very tempting to blindly follow your teacher's way of thinking instead of stopping to think about things for yourself. I'm not saying you should ignore what he says, but think about it and come to your own conclusion about whether "internal power" exists or not.


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## Danny T (Jan 12, 2017)

Internal power...does it exist?
Absolutely.
The human body can not do any or function without it.
Internal - Situated within or inside of something. For this discussion refers to inside the human body and/or mind.
Power - the capacity to do work.
No human, under its own power, can do anything without internal power. The power described as 'under its own power' is internal power.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 12, 2017)

Depends on what you mean by "internal power."

I've seen two categories of stuff demonstrated as "internal power."

The first is magic tricks and hokum. Bending spears against the throat. No touch throws. Students hopping around when the teacher touches them like a preacher has just imbued them with the holy spirit. I don't have much use for that nonsense.

The second is just very good body mechanics applied in subtle ways. This is real. My only complaint is when certain CMA fanboys insist that this sort of skill is unique to specific "internal" arts where the instructors demonstrate the skill in certain stylized ways and use a certain culturally specific poetic sort of language to talk about what they are doing. That kind of skill can be found in just about any art at really high levels, although it isn't always conceptualized the same way.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 12, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Depends on what you mean by "internal power."
> 
> I've seen two categories of stuff demonstrated as "internal power."
> 
> ...



Not disagreeing but I need to correct one thing from a "culturally specific poetic sort of language" POV.

This



Tony Dismukes said:


> Bending spears against the throat.



Is considered external.

And it is MR CMA fanboy to you sir.


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## DanT (Jan 12, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> This short article is the first in a series of posts I plan to write about internal power, as it is taught and explained by Liu Kangyi, my teacher.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my opinion:

External power = force delivered by muscles.

Internal power = force delivered by muscles + "yi" (complete focus).

Therefore an external power strike is the same as an internal power strike, the only difference is that internal adds "yi" or complete focus. If you're talking about chi blasts from dragon ball z, that's not a thing, unfortunately.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 12, 2017)

Discussants of this thread are concerned with theory and authenticity. You are right. You should be. So let me assure you that there is theory and that it is authentic.

All of you are experienced martial artists so when you’ll see (and experience) what Liu can do you’ll understand. And you’ll start asking different questions. You’ll realize it’s not a matter of what I, the OP, thinks, assumes, or vise verse. So, first, it’s real. What I think/know about it matters less (at this point of the discussion).

As for theory, well, Liu has formulated his own (quite elaborate) theory, and has already written two books about it (the third one is on the way. All books are in Chinese and, unfortunately, I don’t have time to translate them. Maybe in the future). I will touch upon this theory in future posts.






Xue Sheng said:


> And how does one manifest internal power?
> What is it used for?
> What are the advantages?



Good questions!

Liu’s explanation (in extreme abbreviation): he stands up, then mentally-cognitively “allows” himself to lose balance and fall, even while  keep standing erect. When he “falls” but stays erect internal power manifest.



Advantages: size, distance, control.



   Size: the size of the force Liu generates is an advantage in its own right. Sometimes he just “touches” me with tip of his fingers and besides being quite painful it feels like he can pierce my body like a hot knife pierces butter.



  Distance: as you all know distance is an important factor in determining a force’s size. With internal power you can generate amazing force from zero distance. So, it’s not Bruce Lee’s one-inch punch, but zero-distance power.



   Control: at the moment of contact with your opponent he is immediately thrown off balance. Thus, he is in fact “leaning” on you in order to regain his stability and is therefore under your total control.

    While the opponent is “stuck”, so to speak, the one generating internal power can move freely, i.e. he can marinating pressure at the contact point—pressure which immobilizes the opponent—even while freely attacking him. 



   I don’t expect you to take my word for it, and in fact you don’t have to. You can come and experience it for yourself.


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## jks9199 (Jan 12, 2017)

Traveling to Taipei isn't likely to be on my agenda soon.  So far, I don't see an explanation or meaningful definition.  Many of your descriptions above end up semantically null; he's falling but not falling, etc.  

Perhaps you could paraphrase your instructor's definition?  Tell us more about how it's applied, or even provide a video clip?


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## oaktree (Jan 12, 2017)

Can you provide what actually your teacher says in hanzi so I can read it and translate it for myself. The English equivalent really doesn't say much. I personally wouldn't put to much into internal power much better to cultivate for health then constantly wasting it on demonstrations.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 13, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> All of you are experienced martial artists so when you’ll see (and experience) what Liu can do you’ll understand. And you’ll start asking different questions. You’ll realize it’s not a matter of what I, the OP, thinks, assumes, or vise verse. So, first, it’s real. What I think/know about it matters less (at this point of the discussion).



In my opinion, what you think about it is very important, and here's why. "Internal Power" is a buzz word in Chinese Martial Arts that can describe many different things, depending on who you talk to. Some people define it as one's mental strength in being able to withstand greater pain and enduring through it. Others define it as the act of using leverage and physics to overcome a larger opponent in a fight. Still others consider it merely to be a combination of good breath control and a stable connection to the Earth, while others consider it to be the manifestation of Qi which helps with self-healing. Now, we could sit here and argue all day and night about which is the correct definition of "internal power" but at the end of it all, you have to decide for yourself what it means and apply it in training. So my question to you is, based on what you have experienced, what is "internal power" to you?

Now, reading what you've written so far it sounds like you are talking about "internal power" in terms of overcoming and controlling a larger opponent. As Tony Dismukes said, this is just a case of using the laws of physics and bio-mechanics to your advantage, and is seen in many different Martial Arts at a high level. Granted, some arts use it more than others and "internal chinese arts" specialise in such techniques, but it certainly isn't unique to them at all. 

The basic principle behind it is that if you offer no resistance, a stronger opponent cannot overwhelm you with pure force, because muscles can only contract against resistance. Imagine you are pushing against a closed door with all your strength and then the door suddenly swings open. What happens? You have suddenly lost all the resistance and fall forwards, losing your balance and control.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 13, 2017)

jks9199 said:


> So far, I don't see an explanation or meaningful definition. Many of your descriptions above end up semantically null; he's falling but not falling, etc.



My apologies. I understand that it is new, hard too accept and understand. It is also hard for Liu's Chinese students( even though they get the explanations in their mother tongue). I'll try to provide more information in future posts.



Midnight-shadow said:


> this is just a case of using the laws of physics and bio-mechanics to your advantage



Exactly.  I think that in my very first post I stated that it won't make you an immortal, nor is it required of you to become an immortal in order to develop this power. Nonetheless, it is a unique ability.

The only difference between Tony's and mine's  is that I am giving a specific example, of someone who had achieved it and teaching it. And that is the whole point--to share with you my own experience(I am not interested in conducting a general discussion on the potential of physics and bio-mechanics, but I am not against it either).



Midnight-shadow said:


> and is seen in many different Martial Arts at a high level



It might be. But again, this is just a general statement. I give you a specific example. I believe that other people in other martial arts had/have this ability too. But I only know of Liu Kangyi.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 13, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Exactly.  I think that in my very first post I stated that it won't make you an immortal, nor is it required of you to become an immortal in order to develop this power. Nonetheless, it is a unique ability.
> 
> The only difference between Tony's and mine's  is that I am giving a specific example, of someone who had achieved it and teaching it. And that is the whole point--to share with you my own experience(I am not interested in conducting a general discussion on the potential of physics and bio-mechanics, but I am not against it either).
> 
> It might be. But again, this is just a general statement. I give you a specific example. I believe that other people in other martial arts had/have this ability too. But I only know of Liu Kangyi.








This guy teaches almost identical processes, under a different name (he calls it the "Ngo Dac Na" system). When he teaches he talks about the transfer of energy, but it is essentially the same thing as what you are describing. All you are doing is redirecting your opponent's energy to either send it away from you or send it back to them. And again, this isn't some mystical power but purely a matter of physics and bio-mechanics. In fact, many people use these principles every day without even realising it. When football players pass the ball from one person to another they hardly ever stop the ball moving completely before passing it on, and instead they redirect the ball's energy, changing the ball's direction while still keeping it moving. Granted this is a very simple example, but the principle between redirecting a ball and redirecting someone's punch is the same. 

It's great that you have discovered this and seen it in action, as it forms the basis of many things we humans are able to do, just don't be under the illusion that it is something only achievable through training with your instructor. Now I feel like the jerk who told a child that Father Christmas doesn't exist.....


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 13, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> This guy teaches almost identical processes



Can you vouch for that guy?

I can vouch for Liu Kangyi.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 14, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Can you vouch for that guy?
> 
> I can vouch for Liu Kangyi.



In as much as he appears to be legit from the way he explains what is happening and demonstrates it on a video.


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## Juany118 (Jan 21, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> My apologies. I understand that it is new, hard too accept and understand. It is also hard for Liu's Chinese students( even though they get the explanations in their mother tongue). I'll try to provide more information in future posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The same principles you describe are at the heart of Aikido.  In Aikido they also call it Ki.  They even have a few throws they refer to as "breath throws" that are described as follows...

As your enemy attacks inhale, absorbing their Ki, then as you initiate the throw exhale and use their Ki to power the throw.  The thing is what you are doing with your breathing has nothing to do with absorbing their Ki.  The throw happens because of physics and biomechanics.  Your breathing is part of the biomechanical half of the equation.  You inhale with the attack so you can exhale with the throw.  You exhale with the throw so your diaphragm is relaxed allowing for more fluid and wider ranged movement of your torso as the throw is executed.  The same can be seen in the "Ki principle" of ukemi (being thrown.) The breathing isn't about maintaining a flow of Ki through your body, as the teaching says.  It's because if you hold your breath while being thrown, again your diaphragm is "bound up" if you are inhaling or holding your breath.  This makes you less relaxed and limber and so you must absorb more impact with raw muscle rather than simply flowing with the throw.  This not only risks injury but also exhausts you faster.  Again though not Ki, biomechanics.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 22, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> The same principles you describe are at the heart of Aikido



The difference is that I am not only "describing." As I said, and say again, I have personal, hands-on, experience.

aikido theory might be similar, or even identical, but that is just theory. You can explain the same phenomenon differently or similarly, but what I want to tell you here, based on EXPERINCE (and not something I read, or watched on YouTube and so on), is that this phenomenon exists. There is such a thing as internal power. How do I know? Because I felt it!


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## O'Malley (Jan 22, 2017)

Well I did too in my aikido class when our sandan repeatedly threw me across the room.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 22, 2017)

Then go train with him! Nothing is better than feeling content!

I, on the contrary to your (solitary) sandan experience, felt many teachers in Asia over many years. I also did extensive research, in the Original Chinese. And so have Liu Kangyi.

What have you done?

Stay content!


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## Juany118 (Jan 22, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> The difference is that I am not only "describing." As I said, and say again, I have personal, hands-on, experience.
> 
> aikido theory might be similar, or even identical, but that is just theory. You can explain the same phenomenon differently or similarly, but what I want to tell you here, based on EXPERINCE (and not something I read, or watched on YouTube and so on), is that this phenomenon exists. There is such a thing as internal power. How do I know? Because I felt it!



What I am saying though is I experienced it in Aikido and even though Sensei's describe Aikido the same way you describe what you have experienced, if you remove the rhetoric, go into "Mr. Spock" or "Sherlock" mode, and analyse at what happens critically, you see it's physics and biomechanics.

In short before these sciences were understood people looked for a way to quantify what they experienced.  They came up with Ki in this case.  However as science improved we become capable of quantifying things in a more accurate way.

Now you don't have to look at things critically and seek what can be proven with independent and verifiable evidence.  You can take what your teacher says as gospel and go with it.  That isn't me though, I also look for proof beyond my own personal beliefs to support a conclusion based on experience.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 22, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> I also look for proof beyond my own personal beliefs to support a conclusion based on experience.



Really? why don't you feel it first?

I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists? 

So, again, theory--sure, there is theory, and you are invited to articulate your own. If you like aikido's theory, well, that's fine with me. And again, I and the rest of Liu's students have only a fragmentary understand his theory. But we are all experienced martial artists, people who trained in different styles and experienced different masters. Yet we all agree that Liu's ability is unique.

After analysis of dozens, if not hundreds of ancient manuals, and after interviewing dozens of masters  Liu decided to call his ability internal power, or more precisely "internal reactive power". That is, his extensive research makes him believe that it is exactly his ability that the ancients called "internal power". I think he has the authority to make such a claim.

If you want to give a different name to his ability, well, I don't mind, and i guess he won't mind either.

Come to Taipei and feel it!


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## O'Malley (Jan 22, 2017)

It would actually be great if you had a video of Mr Liu.

I think your point would be clearer as we would have concrete examples of what he is doing.


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## Juany118 (Jan 22, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Really? why don't you feel it first?
> 
> I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?
> 
> ...



Well all you feel "on your own" is that something functioned.  Example the Aikido throw I noted previously "functions".  Now a Sensei may use the Ki explanation but my brain is wired to confirm... Let's say to "trust but verify.". Well when I verify that Ki explanation I find it is not verified and instead discover it is physics and biomechanics.

The same would be said for dantian breathing helping to maintain clarity in combat.  It isn't Ki as the ancient manuals say, it's biology.  You lose clarity in combat due to a hormonal dump the ancients were not aware of.  One of the causes of this is a steep rise in heart rate.  Once your heart rate starts getting over 145 bpm you get tunnel vision, fine motor function and cognitive abilities start to degrade because your body starts forcing blood to the limbs you will use to fight or flight so they have more oxygen to fuel their function.  This leaves less blood to go to the brain, causing the negative effects.  Dantian breathing provides the body with more efficient oxygenation, thus the heart doesn't need to pump as fast, thus your brain gets to keep more oxygen for itself.

Reading the ancient manuals tells you how people without our understanding of physics, chemistry, biology and biomechanics explained their world.  

Now this isn't to say that looking to "internal power" is without meaning.  If one is seeking a "Way" or something to believe in I see great value in it.  However when looking at something that is eminently quantifiable, in this case physical combat, I think it can actually obfuscate certain things.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 23, 2017)

You know, the OP reminds me of the character "Daffyd Thomas" from the show "Little Britain". For anyone who hasn't watched it, Daffyd believes he is the only Gay man in the village, and despite being confronted with other gay people on a regular basis, he insists that they aren't gay and that he is the only gay in the village.






I get the feeling that the only way the OP would be satisfied would be if the only replies he got were things like "oh wow, that is incredible, your Master must be amazing. You are so lucky to find someone with the internal power!". Alas, I fear he came to the wrong place to get that sort of reaction from people who know better and have actually studied the science behind Ki.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Really? why don't you feel it first?
> 
> I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?



I'm going to invite @elder999 to come read this. I suspect he'll get quite a laugh out of it.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> "oh wow, that is incredible, your Master must be amazing



Why don't you reveal your identity, introduce your teacher, share your own experience of internal power, and invite viewers to train with him and experience first hand your teacher's ability?

Mad Dog is invited to do the same.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Why don't you reveal your identity, introduce your teacher, share your own experience of internal power, and invite viewers to train with him and experience first hand your teacher's ability?
> 
> Mad Dog is invited to do the same.



I get the feeling that even if I brought you to my instructor and he demonstrated "internal power" the same way your teacher does, you would still turn around and deny it.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> I get the feeling that even if I brought you to my instructor and he demonstrated "internal power" the same way your teacher does, you would still turn around and deny it.


 
Please ignore me. Introduce your teacher etc. for the benefit of all the other viewers. Why not share with them such precious information? I have.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Please ignore me. Introduce your teacher etc. for the benefit of all the other viewers. Why not share with them such precious information? I have.



So, this is the part where I start thinking to myself "why have you made this thread?". What did you hope to achieve out of writing what you did? You seem unwilling to discuss the nature of the "internal power" you have witnessed and have disregarded pretty much everyone else here who has experienced similar phenomenon because you think your teacher is unique in his ability. So again, why have you made this thread?


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

O'Malley said:


> It would actually be great if you had a video of Mr Liu.
> 
> I think your point would be clearer as we would have concrete examples of what he is doing.



I am going to start a new thread soon. I'll add few videos to that thread.  Don't raise you expectations though. all you'll be able to see is two men crossing hands. But then again, if you are wise you'd take it as a mark of authenticity.



Juany118 said:


> Well all you feel "on your own" is that something functioned



Juany 118, you made some very good arguments. Please give me some time to answer you.


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## jks9199 (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> The difference is that I am not only "describing." As I said, and say again, I have personal, hands-on, experience.
> 
> aikido theory might be similar, or even identical, but that is just theory. You can explain the same phenomenon differently or similarly, but what I want to tell you here, based on EXPERINCE (and not something I read, or watched on YouTube and so on), is that this phenomenon exists. There is such a thing as internal power. How do I know? Because I felt it!


My problem is, so far, you've done nothing but claim "I've seen it."  Few of us have the ability to go to Taipei.  Let me make a comparison -- I've seen invented a new color.  It's right here, in the space at the end of this sentence: ______  You see it?  No -- well, take my word for it.  It's there.  I can't help it that you can't see it...

Describe this internal power.  If it can be taught -- maybe you can share an exercise that might give us a glimpse?  Not seeking a full free lesson, but enough to get an understanding of what you're talking about.  Or a video?  Something beyond "you gotta see it to believe it."


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

jks9199 said:


> you've done nothing but claim "I've seen it



Really?  for you a straightforward introduction and invitation is nothing?  What can you do with my explanation of theory anyway? And when I did  give some theory (and I will give more later on) people start  arguing about the soundness of the explanation (as they see it), instead of talking about the actual phenomenon of internal power.




Juany118 said:


> Well when I verify that Ki explanation I find it is not verified and instead discover it is physics and biomechanics.



It might well be. I am not a scientist. You are welcome to do the research and explain internal power with physics and biomechanics. In fact, this is our only option.



Juany118 said:


> Reading the ancient manuals tells you how people without our understanding of physics, chemistry, biology and biomechanics explained their world.



That's true. The ancients had no knowledge of modern science. Nonetheless, they knew much about the generation of power, a subject they have researched with their own tools, and were especially adept at generating power while interacting with another human. As they say "gongfu is about two people"; it's not about shooting rays of qi from the palms of your hands but about generating power when coming in contact with another person. That is why Liu calls this "internal reactive power".

And, a comparative reading of ancient manuals shows that the ancients distinguished between two kinds of power. The first they alluded to with metaphors of nature, the latter they described in a very abstract way, almost like in modern physics. Now why would they make such distinction?


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## Flying Crane (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> Really? why don't you feel it first?
> 
> I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?



Have you heard of physics?  Physicists routinely figure out the math to describe something suspected.  Then they observe it, after describing it.

That is some wicked science, that it.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Have you heard of physics? Physicists routinely figure out the math to describe something suspected. Then they observe it, after describing it.
> 
> That is some wicked science, that it.



I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.

Go for it man! I am waiting too!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.
> 
> Go for it man! I am waiting too!



Are the books available in America or does one have to go to Taipei to get them?
What are the titles?
Can one get them in Mainland China?

我好奇


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## Flying Crane (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.
> 
> Go for it man! I am waiting too!


I'm not all that intelligent.  I was just pointing out an error. I make plenty of them myself.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Are the books available in America or does one have to go to Taipei to get them?
> What are the titles?
> Can one get them in Mainland China?



http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A134

http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A136

http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A137

I don't know if they send them to the mainland. On the other hand, I think they also have a store there. Since you speak Chinese you'll have no problems finding out.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 23, 2017)

Dudi Nisan said:


> http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A134
> 
> http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A136
> 
> ...



I am not in mainland but I have family there, Xièxiè


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 23, 2017)

My pleasure!


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## Juany118 (Jan 26, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Have you heard of physics?  Physicists routinely figure out the math to describe something suspected.  Then they observe it, after describing it.
> 
> That is some wicked science, that it.



Like this...

May 29, 1919: A Major Eclipse, Relatively Speaking


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 26, 2017)




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## Dirty Dog (Jan 26, 2017)

Thank you. This does an excellent job of summarizing the entire body of objective evidence to support the claims you've made.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2017)

The problem with internal power discussions is it becomes much like a CMA lineage battle. But in the case of internal power discussions you get people who are polar opposites attempting to prove each other wrong no matter then approach, reason, cost or point. Some of those discussing it get caught up in the magic, mysticism and Wuxia of it, Verses those that are going to dig in their heals and push back from the scientific side.... polar opposites.

You also have complete misunderstandings as to what internal power is or means that that comes from translation errors, misunderstandings of what is being translated based on a "cultural meaning" of the word. and of course semantics.

This is why I tend to avoid them all together.

Bottom-line, the absolute best description of internal energy I have heard comes from Traditional Chinese Medicine.

If you have strong Qi you are healthy
If you have weak Qi you are sick
If you have no Qi your dead.

As for my personal view, and I do not expect anyone to agree with me, nor am I going to discuss it further in this thread.

Nerves carry electrochemical signals to and from different areas of the nervous system as well as between the nervous system and other tissues and organs,, that to me is, at least in part, what "Qi" is. As for the rest of the whole internal things, it is all about alignment and proper relaxation


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## mograph (Jan 27, 2017)

Here's my interpretation, based on my interactions with TCM practitioners and my understanding of the Chinese language and its approach to communication in general:

Qi is seen as a *result* of processes, or a state. It is an *observed* state, and its value is relative to a norm.
If someone has a lot of energy, it is said that they have a lot of qi.
If someone is very nervous, it is said that their qi is rough, unstable, that sort of thing.
If an organ is said to be yang, or having yang qi, that means it is _over_active. The opposite is true when it is said to have yin qi.
A "normal" or healthy state is a state of balance between yin and yang, or between overactive and underactive. You know, _homeostasis_.
Qi is not said to be a _mechanism_ of functioning. It is not a _cause_, it is seen as a _result_.

Qi is also a _description_ of the "whatever" that drives bodily function. Martially speaking, when someone says that you should use your qi, they mean that you should not use a _specific_ _muscle_; you should use your body in such a unified sense (aligned, sensitive and relaxed) that it is difficult for you to sense exactly _which_ muscles you are using. (For example, you can say that you don't use your quads or your calves, you use your _legs_, but extrapolated, whole body usage says you use your _body_ against the earth.) Since your qi is said to drive the function of the body, and you are using the _whole_ body, you are now using whatever drives the whole body.

Can qi be measured? It can be measured to the extent that _energy_ is measured: only in its _physical manifestations_ that can be detected by our instruments: heat, light, circulation, electrical potential, and so on. Energy, strictly speaking, is not _measured_: it is _calculated_ based on observations of other phenomena to which instruments respond.

In terms of our bodies, I'd say that it's likely that qi is the _result_ or the _effect_ of electrochemical signals moving through the body and affecting its function. Note the distinction: qi is not the electrochemical signals, it is the _effect_ of those signals.

Qi is a _construct_, an interpretation, a model, based on observations of phenomena. 

That's all I got.


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## Dudi Nisan (Jan 27, 2017)

Liu does not explain internal power in terms of qi. And, neither do the ancient manuals. As I mentioned, when it comes to internal power the manuals become very abstract, not going for nature metaphors or qi. They speak of certain (two-men) interactions.

According to Liu internal power is pressure, a pressure which stabilizes our bodies once we fall but stay erect. That's, in a nutshell, all there is to it.

I am working now on explaining his theory and exercises( later on I'll also present ancient manuals' quotations and analyze them). I'll post it soon.

Happy Year of the Rooster


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