# How Ugly is your FMA?



## geezer (Aug 23, 2010)

I've got a problem. I would like to promote the two FMA's I study, Latosa Escrima (LWS) and Direct Torres Eskrima (DTE). They are both great systems but, unfortunately, they are kinda ugly. Now let me clarify. I don't mean "ugly" as in "badass", dangerous, or cruel, although they are both very effective self-defense arts. I just mean ugly as in "not pretty", devoid of flourishes and elegant moves. 

This is _especially_ true of the Latosa system which is all about simplicity. Over the years, GM Latosa has increasingly paired down what he teaches more and more. Now it's just five hits and defenses, basically one stance, simple, minimalistic footwork and footwork, and no emphasis on disarms, twirls or flourishes of any kind. It's more like a narrow river that runs deep. Like boxing, which outwardly has only a few punches and steps, but is very difficult to excell in, this art is still very difficult and challenging. Torres DTE, although a bit broader in scope, is much the same....which is not surprizing since it's founder once studied with GM Latosa. 

So what's the problem? Well as I said at the outset, I'd like to promote these arts in my area, but first of all FMA isn't that well known to begin with. So you don't get a lot of inquiries from prospective students. And even when you do, they want to see flash, not simple, powerful and effective striking. They want twirls, locks, grapples disarms and throws, not a system that looks for a simple pre-emptive strike to end a threat and save yourself in a realistic situation. Something an average guy could actually use, not a fantasy from a martial-arts movie.

So, my question is, do any of the rest of you love to train in an "ugly art"? If so, how do you attract students or training partners?


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## Guro Harold (Aug 23, 2010)

geezer said:


> I've got a problem. I would like to promote the two FMA's I study, Latosa Escrima (LWS) and Direct Torres Eskrima (DTE). They are both great systems but, unfortunately, they are kinda ugly. Now let me clarify. I don't mean "ugly" as in "badass", dangerous, or cruel, although they are both very effective self-defense arts. I just mean ugly as in "not pretty", devoid of flourishes and elegant moves.
> 
> This is _especially_ true of the Latosa system which is all about simplicity. Over the years, GM Latosa has increasingly paired down what he teaches more and more. Now it's just five hits and defenses, basically one stance, simple, minimalistic footwork and footwork, and no emphasis on disarms, twirls or flourishes of any kind. It's more like a narrow river that runs deep. Like boxing, which outwardly has only a few punches and steps, but is very difficult to excell in, this art is still very difficult and challenging. Torres DTE, although a bit broader in scope, is much the same....which is not surprizing since it's founder once studied with GM Latosa.
> 
> ...


Ugly can mean "No nonsense".


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## BloodMoney (Aug 23, 2010)

Guro Harold said:


> Ugly can mean "No nonsense".



Amen.

I study Wing Chun primarily, and though I wouldnt say it looks ugly it certainly doesnt look that impressive, its kinda boring (if done right lol).

One of the reasons I chose Escrima is because it was "ugly" and "boring" (ie: straight to the point, no nonsense and no flashy bs).


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## K831 (Aug 23, 2010)

Geezer,

To some, ugly is a turn off. However, I think there are many out there who are looking for ugly, and walk out of studio's when they see too much flash. That is exactly what led me to the places I came to study. 

As with all marketing, it is a matter of targeting the proper demographic (which first means determining said target demographic) and then getting exposure with that demographic. 

Take for example, Krava Maga. Their stuff is uuuuuggllyy. Watch any video. But when you ask someone about the art they say "oh, that is no nonsense SD stuff, mainly for cops and militarily etc..." They say that for two reasons;

1.) It's true

and 

2.) They have done a good job branding themselves and marketing (to one degree or another) themselves as such. 

Now, when I look at Kenpo... Kenpo is just as direct (though not as simple) efficient (perhaps more so) and violent as KM but right now my school has only a handful of LEO and military compared to the main KM club. 

Anyhow, word of mouth, a more focused website with updated videos, price discounts for millitary/leo, adds and membership on forums (like this one) regional forums and social networking sites all go a longs ways. AZ has a lot of regional forums built around survival/firearms/emergency preparedness etc populated by mostly serious people who wouldn't be interested in "flash". 

I also have a local MMA gym looking to broaden their clientele by getting some more SD oriented styles and instructors in there. They are quite interesting in DTE. I have mentioned this to our DTE instructor, but as I have been out of town... haven't had the time to get all parties in one room. Getting into that type of school would likely help promote the arts. (This gym has a much better vibe then you-know-who's school, by the way!)


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## geezer (Aug 24, 2010)

K831 said:


> I also have a local MMA gym looking to broaden their clientele by getting some more SD oriented styles and instructors in there. They are quite interesting in DTE. I have mentioned this to our DTE instructor, but as I have been out of town... haven't had the time to get all parties in one room. Getting into that type of school would likely help promote the arts. (This gym has a much better vibe then you-know-who's school, by the way!)


 
Sounds like a plan with potential! BTW, cant wait till you get back in town. We miss you at practice. Still, it's been so dang hot, things are a bit low key.


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## MJS (Aug 24, 2010)

geezer said:


> I've got a problem. I would like to promote the two FMA's I study, Latosa Escrima (LWS) and Direct Torres Eskrima (DTE). They are both great systems but, unfortunately, they are kinda ugly. Now let me clarify. I don't mean "ugly" as in "badass", dangerous, or cruel, although they are both very effective self-defense arts. I just mean ugly as in "not pretty", devoid of flourishes and elegant moves.
> 
> This is _especially_ true of the Latosa system which is all about simplicity. Over the years, GM Latosa has increasingly paired down what he teaches more and more. Now it's just five hits and defenses, basically one stance, simple, minimalistic footwork and footwork, and no emphasis on disarms, twirls or flourishes of any kind. It's more like a narrow river that runs deep. Like boxing, which outwardly has only a few punches and steps, but is very difficult to excell in, this art is still very difficult and challenging. Torres DTE, although a bit broader in scope, is much the same....which is not surprizing since it's founder once studied with GM Latosa.
> 
> ...


 
IMO, I think this is a problem that we see way too much.  People tend to think that more is better.  I disagree.  I'd rather have a handful of things that a) I know I can pull off, b) that are simple and effective, instead of a ton of things that I'll probably never use.  

As an example, lets take the disarms.  There are countless disarms, variations, etc. all of which can be done against a controlled attack.  Now, take that same person, toss him in a sparring situation, and I'd bet that every single one of those textbook disarms go out the window.  Yet the people who want a ton of fancy stuff, fail to see this.  

This is yet another example of what I was talking about in that thread I started in the general ma section of this forum, titled, "Taking away from the arts."  Its sad, actually, because when people come to the FMA classes, and they dont see that flash and mcdojo stuff, they turn and leave.  

Will the FMAs become as popular as other arts?  Will we see FMA schools pop up like we see TKD schools?  No idea.  I do know that the art is alive and well, due to dedicated groups, thankfully.   Personally, I'd rather have a small, backyard or garage group of 5 people, than a class of 20, who're looking for nothing but twirls and flash.


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## geezer (Aug 24, 2010)

MJS said:


> Personally, I'd rather have a small, backyard or garage group of 5 people, than a class of 20, who're looking for nothing but twirls and flash.


 
I like that perspective. Half a dozen serious guys not only makes a good training group, but it's enough to pool their resources and bring in some top notch people for a seminar. Or failing that, to take a road trip to get some good instruction...


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## Guro Harold (Aug 24, 2010)

Regardless if it's simple or flashy, people recognize skilled work and quality.

People ultimately understand what "time and energy" is, even if they do not understand the workings of a particular subject matter.

As a result some are inspired to learn a system because of the quality and capabilities they recognize in someone and then begin to think to themselves that "they can do the same".

Therefore our execution of the simple or the flash can inspire new students.

There is one thing that I will say about the "flashy". At its best, "flashy" is the abilitity to string strong basic techniques together into a longer continuous effective series. In that regard, there is nothing wrong with "flashy". If so, there wouldn't too many sports that we would enjoy paying for and watching and our music would sound very boring.


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## pmosiun1 (Aug 26, 2010)

The problem with having few members in a martial art style is that the martial art could be gone forever if these few people no longer practice the art and have no one else to continue the art. Being flashy might not be useful in a real fight but it also helps to attract student. Marketing it really well could help boost the number of people that practice the art and insure it does not disappear.


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## tim_stl (Aug 26, 2010)

i have the opposite problem, actually.  garimot arnis is beautiful, tricky, and effective.  some people only see flash and tricks, and assume it's not effective (even despite me showing them otherwise), because effective arts are supposed to be ugly.  the ones that are attracted to the flash don't want to work hard or get hit, so they don't stick around.  very few see the effectiveness, appreciate the beauty, and are willing to put in the work to learn.



tim


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## MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE (Aug 28, 2010)

Hmmmm. I dunno. It was the flash that made me sit up and go, wait WTH was that?  I need to know!  

I look at flash like I look at board smashers.  Yeah, it not only looks pretty bad-***, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a board/brick smasher.   So hook em with flash and those that "get" it will want it all.  Those that just want flash will only get half the meal.


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## MJS (Aug 29, 2010)

There is flash in alot of arts.  I suppose in the end, it'll come down to what people want.  Someone mentioned if you only have a few students, that the art could die.  I dont know if it would die totally, but on the flip side, if all you have at the school, is people who're interested in flash, then IMO, that too, has the potential of killing the art.  Technically, part of the art would die, because the combat side would be overtaken by the flash.


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## thekuntawman (May 31, 2011)

its important for the martial arts teacher to educate his students from the beginning on his own philosophy. each teacher will have a different philosophy in the art, and you want to make sure your one matches up to what that student will like. one way is to build the reputation of your school, in the way that you really are and not the way you want people to see you. this way, when they come in they know what to expect and they arent surprised by what they fine. this can be in the way you "dress up" your school, the lights, the equipments, the things to read on the wall. they should match what you do as a teacher. in a kids school, there will be things that a kids class want, like the kind of equipment s and safety gear they use, maybe cartoon characters on the wall, etc. in a self defense school, you will see self defense thigns, like the red man suit, or wooden/rubber knife on the shelf, stuff like that. its also good to have a good description of your schools method in the website and on the walls so when visitors come, they can read about you or read about you before they even pick up the phone. that way, you get exactly the kind of students you want to teach, and the kind of students who like your way of teaching.

another way is in your first few classes with the student. with me, a new guy wont just jump in the class with the guys. he will have one to one training with me, so i can give him our basics. (its like dance class, that if the student doesnt know certain basics he will be lost in following along. this is a good way to get them ready to join a class) in that time, i tell him about our philosophy and so he can understand why we do things the way we do them. if he doesnt like it, it is okay, and then he left to join another school. but you never know he might like this kind of training, but you have to make sure he understands it. sometimes a student will have it in him to train hard and push himself, but he got scared because no one explained to him, you have to beat up your body a little to get stronger. but once he learns why you are doing 200 strikes, and why those blisters is part of the learning system, and why we squat over and over and over--he now understands why i teach the way i do and usually, he will stay. but in the old way--you don't explain nothing, and so the students doesnt understand and its too painful or uncomfortable to train.

i dont think the FMA is ever going to get popular like TKD in the pure style, but it dont mean you can't feed your family with teaching. in every city, you have people who would be a good student for you, people want self defense, they want to lose weight and get muscular, they want to live healthy. and they know that martial arts can give them that. all we have to do is find them, and then let them know that they can get it from our style, and it aint going to look like the movies, and it aint going to be pretty.


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