# Stances? (self defense)



## Curlykarateka (Mar 8, 2013)

What is the point of a lot of the stances in Karate? I asked my sensei the other night about sanchin and nekoashi and he told me that moving into sanchin is best as a method of entry into grappling, going in on the inside to drive your knee into theirs, disrupting their balance, or around the outside for a sweep/trip. Nekoashi was also most practical in reality for quickly shifting off centre and redirecting an attack. I tried out all of the above with good effect in some applications later that evening. Zenkutso-dachi I appreciate is useful for strikes and I like snapping into it to generate power. Unfortunately we didn't have time to discuss shikodachi before we had to start the lesson. So here I am. What do you guys and gals think about these stances and how to use them?


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm going to counter your question with another.
What have YOU done to try to figure out the application of these stances? 
I don't mean asking other people. I mean get inside your own head and think it through. How do you think you could apply the technique. Then try it and see if it works the way you expected. 

I'm not picking on you. That's the same answer I give students. Once they start thinking, it's amazing what they come up with. After they start thinking, it's also a lot easier to lead them through applications they might not have considered on their own.


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## Cyriacus (Mar 8, 2013)

Sometimes, stances reflect principles of what your legs or feet should be doing in a less literal way. A full step forward could just be telling you to move forward, or make an adjustment with your rear leg, or... a cigar might be a cigar.

Have fun


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## chinto (Mar 8, 2013)

stances move the body and change targets, shift weight and balance, move you closer or farther away with out moving feet, and change your 'root' to keep you from being thrown to the ground often.  Stance and foot work will do a lot of your blocking for you in that you will not be there when their strike or grapple arrives.


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## seasoned (Mar 8, 2013)

Stances teach us about balance, how to shift our weight in a combat situation and to move without committing ourself until the last possible second. They also teach us to trainfer power from the ground up. 
Through much practice our karate stance becomes our everyday stance and our everyday stance becomes our karate stance.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Mar 9, 2013)

If you aren't sure what a stance is for, you will need to determine what is does to your body and extrapolate from there. For example, what does shiko-dachi do to your body? It drops your weight and centers it, and your legs are extended and braced well out from your body at angles--can you think of a reason you would want to do that? As someone who incorporates grappling into his training on a regular basis, I can tell you that doing this is vital to defending against throws and maintaining your balance while clinching.

That said, I would like to add that the stances in kata are just snapshots in time--you aren't intended to stand and fight in them like you do with your sparring stance in kumite. You move into and out of the stances as necessary in order to move your body in the way it needs to move. An interesting way to see this is to watch videos of fighting on YouTube--street fights or MMA are usually good for this--and then go back through and randomly pause the video as you watch to see how many stances there are. I constantly see neko-ashi-dachi, shiko-dachi, and zenkutsu-dachi when I do this, even though you don't really notice them when you watch the video without pausing.


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## jks9199 (Mar 9, 2013)

Start by defining stance...  That might lead you somewhere interesting.


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## K-man (Mar 9, 2013)

I think I'll just watch this one for a while. It could get interesting.


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## punisher73 (Mar 11, 2013)

Main misunderstanding of "stances" in karate.  You don't just "stand" in a stance, they are all transitional snapshots of what you need to be doing with your body and your center of gravity for a technique.

If you look at ANY combat striking sport, you will see all of your traditional stances being used at certain points of execution.  They are just more formal to optimize the body's biomechanics.

Each stance has a purpose and a goal, just as every technique has a purpose and a goal.  Finding out what your stances are for, is a great study that will really grow you as a martial artists.


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## grumpywolfman (Mar 11, 2013)

seasoned said:


> Stances teach us about balance, how to shift our weight in a combat situation and to move without committing ourself until the last possible second. They also teach us to transfer power from the ground up.
> Through much practice our karate stance becomes our everyday stance and our everyday stance becomes our karate stance.



I use the stances that I've learned from martial arts for things like: lifting, shoveling, chopping wood, mopping the floor, using a saw, etc.. it enables an old beat up guy like me still move like a young one


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## chinto (Mar 28, 2013)

Also if you ever work with a grappler, especially one who is looking to throw, you will find if you have trained in Okinawan Karate at least that you will go to the stances with out thought and it will stop the throw and leave you with retaliation targets and throws that are very effective.  

At least that is what I found when I went to a stand up grappling and throwing seminar. I did not consciously even think about it! I just found as they went for the throw I was in a good stance, when i started out in neutral stance, and they could not throw me well.  This was not because I was some how better! in fact my partner was a brown belt in judo, and a much better grappler then I ever will be! This was rather my body reacting to training and I could not seem to even consciously stop it happening. .. my body reacted to its loosing balance by dropping into a stance as I have been trained to do for years in Karate class.


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## Zero (Apr 3, 2013)

chinto said:


> Also if you ever work with a grappler, especially one who is looking to throw, you will find if you have trained in Okinawan Karate at least that you will go to the stances with out thought and it will stop the throw and leave you with retaliation targets and throws that are very effective.
> 
> At least that is what I found when I went to a stand up grappling and throwing seminar. I did not consciously even think about it! I just found as they went for the throw I was in a good stance, when i started out in neutral stance, and they could not throw me well.  This was not because I was some how better! in fact my partner was a brown belt in judo, and a much better grappler then I ever will be! This was rather my body reacting to training and I could not seem to even consciously stop it happening. .. my body reacted to its loosing balance by dropping into a stance as I have been trained to do for years in Karate class.



That's intersting Chinto.  I did judo as a kid (and still mess about with it and jujitsu) but have done mainly karate for my "adult" life, as a result when up against a take-down opponent or judoka I usually go into a sprawl or do a throw counter/negation, such as a lower back jam for a hip throw.  I guess if you were quick enough or in tune enough to go into a low/very low/wide traditional stance this could also negate many types of throws but I have never instinctively done this. I do wonder, however, (outside of trying one application at a time) if you would then be more vulnerable in that very low stance for a counter or follow up throw or more particularly a shoot if facing a grappler/shoot-fighter. I think you would be.


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## Kframe (Apr 6, 2013)

NON tma person here.  I don't know the names of karate stances so ill use as generic terms as I can.. I do a combative mma style. Yes it has the classic mma mix, of boxing and kickboxing and BJJ, we also do moves from judo wrestling and a little bit of karate inspired deflections.  Just a FYI TS on my back ground.    

I have noticed that, when im entering for CERTAIN throws, ill be in what looks like a Front stance.(lead foot forward a ways, with most weight on it) Example of this, is when I parry/trap a haymaker and move in for a Osoto gari(spelling check, Its a newb judo throw)  It looks a lot like a traditional stance. As was mentioned you don't just stand around in front stance or back stance you momentarily occupy them during the correct execution of moves.  Back stance(weight on back leg, not sure how you do the foot position)  can be defensive from a striking perspective. It sets you lead leg up to quickly fire off front kicks, or helps facilitate checking low kicks.  I have also found I use back stance when executing some toss's.


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## seasoned (Apr 6, 2013)

Kframe said:


> NON tma person here. I don't know the names of karate stances so ill use as generic terms as I can.. I do a combative mma style. Yes it has the classic mma mix, of boxing and kickboxing and BJJ, we also do moves from judo wrestling and a little bit of karate inspired deflections. Just a FYI TS on my back ground.
> 
> I have noticed that, when im entering for CERTAIN throws, ill be in what looks like a Front stance.(lead foot forward a ways, with most weight on it) Example of this, is when I parry/trap a haymaker and move in for a Osoto gari(spelling check, Its a newb judo throw) It looks a lot like a traditional stance. As was mentioned you don't just stand around in front stance or back stance you momentarily occupy them during the correct execution of moves. Back stance(weight on back leg, not sure how you do the foot position) can be defensive from a striking perspective. It sets you lead leg up to quickly fire off front kicks, or helps facilitate checking low kicks. I have also found I use back stance when executing some toss's.


Just a side note, pertaining to your dominating hand, what ever it is doing, grabbing or striking, the weight will be on your opposite foot. I find this very helpful when deciphering kata bunkai. If the left foot is stepping in the right hand will be dominate.


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## K-man (Apr 6, 2013)

Kframe said:


> I have noticed that, when im entering for CERTAIN throws, ill be in what looks like a Front stance.(lead foot forward a ways, with most weight on it) Example of this, is when I parry/trap a haymaker and move in for a Osoto gari(spelling check, Its a newb judo throw)  It looks a lot like a traditional stance. As was mentioned you don't just stand around in front stance or back stance you momentarily occupy them during the correct execution of moves.  Back stance(weight on back leg, not sure how you do the foot position)  can be defensive from a striking perspective. It sets you lead leg up to quickly fire off front kicks, or helps facilitate checking low kicks.  I have also found I use back stance when executing some toss's.


That is exactly right and what the stances a designed for. You need a strong stance to perform a throw or a take down. You do not require a strong stance to strike.  :asian:


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## chrispillertkd (Apr 7, 2013)

Curlykarateka said:


> What do you guys and gals think about these stances and how to use them?



Your stances _are_ self-defense.


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