# minor wrist surgery procedure



## Ceicei (Jul 7, 2006)

Two months ago, my left wrist got hurt during a wrist lock/throw with my slightly overzealous jujitsu partner.  It is the same wrist I hurt approximately 10 years ago at work, the injury happening approximately the same way (the twist).

It got progressively worse over the past two months.

Anyway, last week x-rays were taken and today, in approximately one hour from now, I will be going to get the procedure done on my wrist.  I am not sure yet how the doctor intends to do this, but I will find out soon enough.  He said it had to do with the nerves and motion friction.

Wish me luck for a speedy recovery.

- Ceicei


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## Lisa (Jul 7, 2006)

Good Luck, CeiCei!  Let us know how you are doing!


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## Ping898 (Jul 7, 2006)

Good Luck, CeiCei!


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## Ceicei (Jul 7, 2006)

Update:

I walked into the doctor's office with a 101 degree fever.  He checked and it appears I have an ear infection.  He said he will get back to that after the wrist procedure.

His plan was to drain the ganglion cyst with a long needle and that should be it.  Apparently after draining that, he found I have other cysts, a ring of them, some are pretty deep within the wrist, near the main nerve.  To reach them, he used a very small circular saw (that cuts on a horizontal plane, kind of like a very tiny cookie cutter).  More probing, more cutting (sometimes with the saw, sometimes with a scapel), and more draining.  Fortunately, he used a local anesthesia so I couldn't feel this.  It was interesting to watch.  It took four small syringes to fill up with the drainage.  He did ask me periodically to move my fingers and apply light pressure.  After he stitched me up, he put on a compression wrap and advised I ice the wrist with a bag of ice.  

He gave me a Rx for the ear infection (to both reduce the fever and fight the infection).

He also said not to "use the wrist" for 10 days to prevent the stitches from ripping.
He will check on the wrist again, and if all goes well (cysts not returning), remove the stitches.

After getting the Rx and taking it, I slept for almost three hours (the med makes me sleepy).  

The bummer is it looks like I can't do jujitsu or kenpo  (or caving) with that wrist for a little while.   

Maybe some foot katas when I feel a bit better while recovering.

- Ceicei


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## Carol (Jul 7, 2006)

Speedy recovery, CeiCei!  Sounds good that you got all that bad stuff out of the way.   

Heal up though...best to spend the time to get fixed and stay fixed.   

Prayers to you my friend :asian:


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## Ceicei (Jul 7, 2006)

I got a PM asking me if my partner knows about the injury.  No he doesn't, at least not yet.  I don't fault him though, because I am equally as responsible for the injury by not tapping out sooner.

- Ceicei


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## Ronin Moose (Jul 7, 2006)

Wishing you a speedy and complete recovery!  Now's the time to catch upon all those martial arts movies you've been wanting to watch.  Best regards...

-Garry


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## Shirt Ripper (Jul 8, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> The bummer is it looks like I can't do jujitsu or kenpo  (or caving) with that wrist for a little while.
> 
> Maybe some foot katas when I feel a bit better while recovering.
> 
> - Ceicei


...and sit ups.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 10, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Update:
> I walked into the doctor's office with a 101 degree fever.  He checked and it appears I have an ear infection.  He said he will get back to that after the wrist procedure.


Well you're already profoundly deaf and probably can't get more deafer than ya are now. I know you hear a bit with hearing aids but even if you lost it all it's not a major loss now is it? It's something that I've been preparing for myself for the last few years. Dunno how much longer it'll be before I'll really need an interpreter ... except on dates! 




			
				Ceicei said:
			
		

> His plan was to drain the ganglion cyst with a long needle and that should be it.  Apparently after draining that, he found I have other cysts, a ring of them, some are pretty deep within the wrist, near the main nerve.  To reach them, he used a very small circular saw (that cuts on a horizontal plane, kind of like a very tiny cookie cutter).  More probing, more cutting (sometimes with the saw, sometimes with a scapel), and more draining.  Fortunately, he used a local anesthesia so I couldn't feel this.  It was interesting to watch.  It took four small syringes to fill up with the drainage.  He did ask me periodically to move my fingers and apply light pressure.  After he stitched me up, he put on a compression wrap and advised I ice the wrist with a bag of ice.
> 
> He gave me a Rx for the ear infection (to both reduce the fever and fight the infection).
> 
> ...



Well good luck with it al..... wait... *NO CAVING*????!!!!! :miffer: :waah: :wah: :vu:


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2006)

It looks like the cyst came back.  I'm going in for a second doctor's appointment today at 2:15.  I am not sure if he intends to drain it again or if he will surgically remove it.  Either way, it looks like I have to keep my kenpo and jujitsu (yes, MA-Caver, this includes caving) to a minimum for a while longer.

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm sorry to hear that this is happening to you.  I injured my wrist in TKD (same thing, someone hit me) and had to wear a brace for 3 weeks, and that was bad enough - no surgery involved.  I hope everything heals well in a minimum of time, with no side effects.


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## rutherford (Jul 17, 2006)

Do you have a physical therapist lined up for recovery after your doctor clears you for movement of the wrist?


You have my best wishes for a speeding healing process!


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2006)

rutherford said:
			
		

> Do you have a physical therapist lined up for recovery after your doctor clears you for movement of the wrist?
> 
> You have my best wishes for a speeding healing process!



Not yet with a physical therapist.  If it turns out to be a removal surgery this time, very likely a PT may be recommended.  We'll see how the appt goes very soon.  Gosh, it's kinda hard to type with primarily one hand.

Thank you to all of you for your well wishes...

- Ceicei


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## Kreth (Jul 17, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Gosh, it's kinda hard to type with primarily one hand.


Nah, I've been doing it for yea--er, nevermind... :uhohh: 



Seriously, good luck with your follow-up.


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> Nah, I've been doing it for yea--er, nevermind... :uhohh:
> 
> Seriously, good luck with your follow-up.



I laughed.  Thanks!

Update:

I went to the dr and he confirmed the cysts are back.  However, they are located rather deep within the wrist so he cannot do a simple procedure.  He cannot guarantee that draining them will prevent them from coming back.

He set up an appt for me with an orthopedist for a wrist surgery on 8/9/06 at 9:30 am.  

Three weeks of pain while waiting.  Anyway, I'm hoping that the upcoming surgery will take care of the problem. 

- Ceicei


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## MA-Caver (Jul 17, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Three weeks of pain while waiting.  Anyway, I'm hoping that the upcoming surgery will take care of the problem.
> - Ceicei


So do we all... (((hugs))) good luck.


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks.  The stitches are out today (so ripping them will no longer be a concern).  The doctor says I can move my wrist within reason--just try not to do anything to aggravate the cysts further.  Basically, the wrist is no worse than it was prior to the first procedure of 7/7/06, just that the scar is still new and the wrist not quite as strong (been kept immobile for the past two weeks with the support wrap and brace).

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Aug 10, 2006)

When the stitches were taken out 7/17/06, the doctor saw that the cysts had come back and he knew that his minor surgery on 7/7/06 didn't succeed.  He referred me to an orthopedist for cyst removal surgery on 8/9/06.  I saw the orthopedist yesterday.  He didn't do the surgery.  After he examined my wrist further, he said the damage was more extensive than he had thought and I would need reconstructive surgery.  This is more than a cyst problem.  Anyway, I am scheduled to meet the surgeon on 8/21/06.  I didn't realize the damage was that bad, all from a wristlock throw.

More waiting.   

I was really hoping to get this all over with so I could return fully to training.  I am wondering though, that after I heal, whether I should consider even going back to jujitsu.

- Ceicei


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## donna (Aug 10, 2006)

Sorry to hear of all the problems you are having with your wrist. Hope it all goes well.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Aug 10, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> When the stitches were taken out 7/17/06, the doctor saw that the cysts had come back and he knew that his minor surgery on 7/7/06 didn't succeed. He referred me to an orthopedist for cyst removal surgery on 8/9/06. I saw the orthopedist yesterday. He didn't do the surgery. After he examined my wrist further, he said the damage was more extensive than he had thought and I would need reconstructive surgery. This is more than a cyst problem. Anyway, I am scheduled to meet the surgeon on 8/21/06. I didn't realize the damage was that bad, all from a wristlock throw.
> 
> More waiting.
> 
> ...


 
CC

I was pleased as punch when you started jujutsu, and remember dialoguing with you about it in PM's. I would offer, at this point, that it might not be in your best interests to continue. Different physiologies/genetics react differently to insults and injury; this will even change from part to part. My wrists can take a major beating, but not my shoulders. My knees can take more punishment than my back. Your wrists...

Unless the instructor will accomodate a wrist-less training schedule for you, do yourself a favor and stop. More insult will lead to more schmutz. It ain't worth it. Surgeries are hard on the body...why set yourself up for more? You are very likely to have a better kenpo game now than had you not taken the JJ...you'll know what the techniques against grabs are actually against, and you'll have a finer feel for contact manipulation. Now, go be nice to yourself.

At least that's my own opining.

Regards,

Dave


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## Carol (Aug 10, 2006)

I agree with Dr. Dave.

Your wrist has been injured once at work and now in JJ with the same motion.  Your body is trying to tell you something.


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## Ceicei (Aug 11, 2006)

Dave, 

Can't sleep well tonight.... Pain does play a factor in that.  


			
				Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> CC
> 
> I was pleased as punch when you started jujutsu, and remember dialoguing with you about it in PM's.


I enjoyed these dialogues with you also very much and thank you for enhancing the limited knowledge I have.


> I would offer, at this point, that it might not be in your best interests to continue. Different physiologies/genetics react differently to insults and injury; this will even change from part to part. My wrists can take a major beating, but not my shoulders. My knees can take more punishment than my back. Your wrists...


Understood.  In some ways, I wish this wasn't so true.   I'm hoping that the surgery will help make my left wrist stronger and better than it was. I don't know if that is an unrealistic expectation; I do not want to give up dreams I want to achieve.  If I can find a way to keep going....   


> Unless the instructor will accomodate a wrist-less training schedule for you, do yourself a favor and stop. More insult will lead to more schmutz. It ain't worth it. Surgeries are hard on the body...why set yourself up for more?


 You make a very good argument.  My body is all that I have, and I do need to take care of it better.  I'll have to ask my instructor for his opinion if modification is possible.  

Would strength training as part of physical therapy help after the surgery to allow for a return to jujitsu?


> You are very likely to have a better kenpo game now than had you not taken the JJ...you'll know what the techniques against grabs are actually against, and you'll have a finer feel for contact manipulation. Now, go be nice to yourself.


You're right, my kenpo improved as a result of jujitsu.  I also love what I've learned with jujitsu.  For that, I'm really grateful.  My instructor is an excellent one and he has been very patient with me.  He has done much for allowing me to really enjoy training.  

It would be a sad day if I had to give up jujitsu.  I don't want to think about it, but I realize that may be a real possibility.  I'd like to see how the surgery and recovery goes first before I make the final decision.

The main thing that worries me is physical therapy. I probably will have a tendency to try to rush through in my eagerness to be healed.  I know I will have to remind myself that healing and strengthening takes time.  Not being able to train as fully as I want really does drive me insane.


> At least that's my own opining.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave


Thank you.  Your opinions and knowledge are valuable.  I appreciate most the point you made that parts of the body are not equal and some parts handle physiological stress better than others.  That was a sobering thought.  :asian:  I also have to acknowledge I am getting older and don't move as well or heal as quickly as I used to. 

We'll see how things go....

- Ceicei


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## KenpoSterre (Aug 11, 2006)

So are the cysts and everything only from the wrist-lock or are there other factors too? Also I once completely busted my right arm and I found out from my doctor that moving your fingers and tenseing/releasing your hand helps in recovering along with getting the stregth back.

I wish you a speedy recovery.


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## Ceicei (Aug 11, 2006)

KenpoSterre said:
			
		

> So are the cysts and everything only from the wrist-lock or are there other factors too? Also I once completely busted my right arm and I found out from my doctor that moving your fingers and tenseing/releasing your hand helps in recovering along with getting the stregth back.


Flexing the hand/rotating the wrist aggravates the joint, so right now, I am not going to worry about getting strength back until after the surgery.

In answer to your question, the injury is primarily from the way the left wrist was over-rotated in the same direction (from both the work related accident a long time ago and the wristlock throw).  There were sharp shooting pain and sudden loss of strength at the time both incidents occurred.  There were friction and weight-bearing stress causing the cyst.  I suspect there might also be a small bone chip involved (because there is an extremely hard pebble sized lump within/near the cyst), but I will know for sure when I see the surgeon.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Aug 21, 2006)

Update:

I met with the surgeon today.  He examined my wrist and said he will do the surgery to remove the bone chip and the cyst.  He will be taking off about two inches off part of the ligament along with the chip and excising the cyst sheath.  There will be 4 to 6 weeks of recovery time with a cast.  This surgery will be done under general anesthesia at the hospital.  The day is August 29th....

- Ceicei



Left wondering about my martial arts future....
%think%


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## Ceicei (Sep 1, 2006)

Update:

I had the wrist surgery on Tuesday, August 29th, under general anesthesia at the hospital.  When I woke up in recovery room, I thought my wrist felt pretty good (bandaged heavily) as there wasn't any pain and I could move my fingers easily.  The anesthesiologist (who is a good friend of mine) shook his head.  He said, "Hey, take it easy, you're all numbed out.  Don't move your fingers and wrist any more."  As he knew I understood sports, he added, "It hurts more the next day."

He wasn't kidding.  The next day, I was so sore, I could barely move even a finger.  I zoned out big time.  I also found I am allergic to the antibiotic and have been itching like crazy.  I've been put on pain killers also and haven't felt up to doing much of  anything except sleeping until yesterday.  Today, Sept. 1st, is a really good day, so I'm back to MT again.  I feel almost normal, except my wrist still hurts.... 

My wrist is still heavily wrapped up.  I can't take the bandages off until 10 days later.  I go back to see the surgeon in 3 weeks for a follow up check.  After I recover, He is referring me to a physical therapist.

- Ceicei


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 1, 2006)

Glad to hear the surgery went well.  Hope it all works out in the end!!

Jeff


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## Swordlady (Sep 1, 2006)

I'm also glad to hear that your surgery went well, Ceicei.  I hope and pray you have a swift recovery, and that your wrist does regain full mobility.


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## donna (Sep 1, 2006)

Hi Ceicei, glad to hear the surgery is over, hope you have a successful recovery.


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 2, 2006)

get well soon


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## Ceicei (Sep 8, 2006)

Today I am pleased.  My soft cast is finally off my left wrist.  There is a two inch incision across my wrist.  I'm amazed that there are no visible sutures.  Maybe surgical glue is used instead of stitches?  Anyway, it is almost healed, but still has scabbing.

I can move my fingers, but range of motion with my wrist is almost non-existent.  I will need physical therapy to regain my range of motion.  It sucks that I can't even do a palm heel strike or a backfist.

I go back to the surgeon for a follow-up check in 1 and 1/2 more weeks. 

I will take it slowly to get back into kenpo.  I will, however, wait until I am thoroughly healed and fully limber in the wrist before I try jujitsu again.

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Sep 8, 2006)

Ceicei - it sounds like things are going well, that's SO good to hear!  Thanks for letting us know, and I hope physical terrorism (I mean therapy) goes well for you... and don't let that comment get you; I used to work for a physical therapy department in a hospital in high school, and that was one of the more common comments, mostly from knee surgery patients.  At least your wrist isn't weight-bearing; it could be lots worse!


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## Swordlady (Sep 8, 2006)

Glad to hear that your wrist is healing up.  And I also hope that you regain full range of motion in your wrist.  Hang in there!


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## Ceicei (Sep 12, 2006)

My range of motion is getting better.  I am able to move my wrist 25% up, but I still cannot move it down.  Sideways and twisting motions still hurt.  My grip power is at roughly 75%.  I still have not started physical therapy yet.  My surgeon wants to see me first and that is not until Sept. 21st.

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Sep 17, 2006)

My wrist is still very, very stiff.  The pain associated with the surgery (cut area) is now gone, but I am left with the pain of trying to stretch the muscles, tendons, and ligaments.  

Any advice how to do this safely in regaining my range of motion? 

Thank you!

- Ceicei


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## KenpoSterre (Sep 17, 2006)

Glad to see your writst is feeling a little bit better. I guess you should start by moving your fingers around and stuff. Once you can do that with out pain try gripping stress balls and stuff to get strenght back. Don't expect to get motion back immediately.


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## Kacey (Sep 17, 2006)

Well, I remember when I was in high school and worked for a physical therapist, they often (especially right after surgery) used moist heat packs before beginning stretching - it relaxed the muscles prior to any movement.  They then used them again afterward to relax the muscles again to reduce stiffness.

Range of motion exercises were supposed to cause discomfort, but not actual pain - if you rip something it will take even longer to heal.

Other than that, I think your best bet is to talk to a physical therapist about your specific needs.

It sounds like things are starting to heal well - which sounds great!


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## Ceicei (Sep 27, 2006)

I saw my physical therapist finally.....

My mobility was at 30% when I came in. When I left, it increased to 46%. The goal is to go to 77% average (matching my other wrist). He taught me how to do several different types of stretches and exercises. I will see him again in 2 more weeks.

I asked him whether I could continue my activities. He said that the surgery (he has already been briefed by the surgeon prior to my appointment) will actually help my wrist to be better than it was before, so I shouldn't have to stop doing what I love to do (caving, rock climbing, karate, jujitsu, etc.) The more I use my wrist, the better it will be--don't let it atrophy.

I asked specifically about jujitsu. He mentioned that rather than avoiding jujitsu because the wrist is stiff, I consider doing more of jujitsu. He explained that if jujitsu is done properly, jujitsu teaches how to stretch and strengthen the wrists. In fact, I should be able to do jujitsu better now than I did before as the surgery has removed completely the cyst that impedes the motion. He strongly advised I just start out slowly and build up the strength and range, then go throw 'em! Be sure I tap out often... just don't let the locks and holds go beyond the tolerance level for me.

Nice!!!!  

I'm happy that I can resume doing all that I love....

artyon:

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Sep 27, 2006)

Woohoo!!!!  Sounds like the best possible outcome - congratulations!


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## Swordlady (Sep 27, 2006)

That is excellent news, indeed!  I'm glad you don't have to give up anything you love - woo hoo!


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## Ceicei (Sep 28, 2006)

Yes it is!  I'm really, really thrilled!  Can anything get any better???  :boing2:

- Ceicei


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## Carol (Sep 28, 2006)

Ceicei said:


> Yes it is! I'm really, really thrilled! Can anything get any better??? :boing2:
> 
> - Ceicei


 

I'm SOOOOO happy for you CeiCei!!  That is EXCELLENT news!!


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## MA-Caver (Sep 28, 2006)

Ceicei said:


> Yes it is!  I'm really, really thrilled!  Can anything get any better???  :boing2:
> 
> - Ceicei



Yes actually as what you've told me tonight... it can...


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## Ceicei (Jan 20, 2007)

Update:

Since the final wrist surgery, I now have full range of motion, my flexibility is back.  My strength is back.  It feels great to be pain-free finally after so many years!!!  My wrist is better than it was when the injury first happened.  I should have done the surgery long ago....  Anyway, I'm absolutely delighted now that I can even do a handstand!!! 

- Ceicei


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## Kacey (Jan 20, 2007)

Woohoo!  Congrats, Ceicei, that's great to hear!  :highfive:


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## shesulsa (Jan 20, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> Update:
> 
> Since the final wrist surgery, I now have full range of motion, my flexibility is back.  My strength is back.  It feels great to be pain-free finally after so many years!!!  My wrist is better than it was when the injury first happened.  I should have done the surgery long ago....  Anyway, I'm absolutely delighted now that I can even do a handstand!!!
> 
> - Ceicei


Ceicei, this is awesome news!  I'm *really* glad to hear your wrist has healed so completely!  KUDOS!!!
:ultracool


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## Lisa (Jan 21, 2007)

Excellent News CeiCei!  I am so hapy for you.


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