# Real Knife Defense



## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

I'm flying blind here, guys.  What do you think is real? Anyone had real experience against a knife weilder?  Good books for the subject?  _Real_ ways to practice?  (how eften does a guy do a  wide overhand stab?!).  I have no idea except that it'll probably be in me before I know for sure he's got it.  (I also know running is the best option, we're assuming it's not an option).  Thanks, guys.


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## arnisador (Jun 5, 2007)

I expect to be covering this at the WMAA Camp this weekend. Bottom line, I'm a believer in the "both hands on the wheel" theory of grabbing the knife hand with both hands, taking it close to his body where's his arm is weak, softening him up with knees, then taking away the knife.

But...it depends on the situation!


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## SKB (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I'm flying blind here, guys. What do you think is real? Anyone had real experience against a knife weilder? Good books for the subject? _Real_ ways to practice? (how eften does a guy do a wide overhand stab?!). I have no idea except that it'll probably be in me before I know for sure he's got it. (I also know running is the best option, we're assuming it's not an option). Thanks, guys.


 
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing but I have been involved in a few knife situations. Got a couple of scars to remind me. If someone wants to just walk up to you and drive a knife into you or slash you with a blade and walk away their is little to do. To stop this from happening you should work on your awareness of your surroundings. A situation with a knife works the same as any other situation. Some thing comes before the fight. 

My advice is to remember you are involved with the whole person not just the knife. Kind of hard to think about but try it when you train. You are fighting the person not the tool in their hand. As far as what types of attacks. Their is no set type of attacks. Their grip will give you some idea. Held straight out they can slash and stab, underhand they are more likely to try and stab the weapon into you using overhead strikes. Kind of a simple answer but I did not want to write to long of an answer.


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## bushidomartialarts (Jun 5, 2007)

Run.  It's a safe bet that you'll get cut if there's ever a knife involved.  Flee, mortal, flee in fear.

Still, it's good to have some skills if flight to evade injury is impossible.  I'd recommend any of the FMA arts..they focus on blades and sticks, and are the guys with the experience to back up their claims. Krav Maga and Systema have some pretty okay techniques, too.


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## blackxpress (Jun 5, 2007)

Depending on the skill of the attacker, you're probably going to get cut.  If the attacker is a skilled knife fighter you're in trouble.  If you have to throw a block, try to block with the bony part of the forearm.  Otherwise the knife could severe the tendons, nerves, arteries, etc., and cause you to lose control of your hands.  Then you're toast for sure.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I expect to be covering this at the WMAA Camp this weekend. Bottom line, I'm a believer in the "both hands on the wheel" theory of grabbing the knife hand with both hands, taking it close to his body where's his arm is weak, softening him up with knees, then taking away the knife.
> 
> But...it depends on the situation!


 
Both hands on the wheel was how I learned it too.  I just haven't found anyone who'll train realistically with a knife against me.  I sat out of another knife defense drill because I refused to use the funny looking, irrealistic attacks.  Overhanded sure, but not a big arc, more like stabstabstabstab with the elbow bent.  I knife is as quick as a fist.  I try to think of how I would use a knife and it sure isn't like they have in class.  At least we weren't taught how to kick it out of someone's hand.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 5, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I expect to be covering this at the WMAA Camp this weekend. Bottom line, I'm a believer in the "both hands on the wheel" theory of grabbing the knife hand with both hands, taking it close to his body where's his arm is weak, softening him up with knees, then taking away the knife.
> 
> But...it depends on the situation!


 
Definately a sound and sensible approach!  The reality of knife violence is that it is possible and can happen everywhere.  It happened just this Saturday night in Alma, Michigan, small town USA!  A man was watching a fight between two women and he was stabbed.  They are currently looking for the suspect.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

Brian, I was hoping you'd show up.  Have you got any advice?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 5, 2007)

The best advice I could give you would to *not be there*.  
This could be because you avoid being in certain places, areas
or around certain types of people.  Or it could be that you
felt an imminent attack coming and got out of dodge.  either
way if you are not there you cannot be hurt.

After that if you can, get an equalizer of some sort whether
it be a knife, stick, club, firearm, etc. (a better tool is always
a good idea)

If nothing is available and you have to go hand to hand then
hopefully your training will come through in the moment.  As
a precursor to this analyze your training to be sure that it 
addresses the needs of dealing with an attacker with an edge
weapon.  If it does not then I think you should augment your
training with experienced instructors so that it does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Hope that helps a bit.


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## Bill Bednarick (Jun 5, 2007)

Having trained with some very good people, I have pretty much decided if you can't touch them with a training blade you WILL NOT stand a chance empty handed.

There are things that can help against a less adept persons, but a good player dictates the range and you will be cut to ribbons and leaking from everywhere before you realize it.

A stop hit to the eyes then two hands on the knife is one thing that can work.
Passing the blade into them can work.

Another thing is to get past the point of the weapon if possible. Not all blades cut well but it takes very little to poke holes in you.


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## Blindside (Jun 5, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I expect to be covering this at the WMAA Camp this weekend. Bottom line, I'm a believer in the "both hands on the wheel" theory of grabbing the knife hand with both hands, taking it close to his body where's his arm is weak, softening him up with knees, then taking away the knife.
> 
> But...it depends on the situation!


 
From the inside I tend to "snake wrap" their weapon arm with my arm on that side, I get alot of control that way and more control of their body than two arms on the weapon limb., and it gives me more weapons to hurt them with.  I dont' go for disarms much, I'm more interested in securing the weapon followed by shutting down the CPU.  From the outside it it is usually a tricep grab to get control of the weapon arm followed by *something.*

Edit: This is assuming I'm in close, "past the point of the blade" as Mr. Beldnarick put it, it is the job of my footwork to get me to that place, backed up by my ability to pass the knife.

Lamont


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## Hawke (Jun 5, 2007)

If the person is good with a knife, you don't know about the knife until you start leaking...(got this from others).

For knife fighting info check out 

Datu Kelly S. Worden (http://www.kellyworden.com/)
Guru Brain "Buzz" Smith (http://www.nmc.edu/~bsmith/)
Grand Master Remy Presas (http://www.modernarnis.com/)
Mike Pick (going to have to google him)

Hope this helps.  In California we have some funky laws regarding knives.  Google the knife laws for your area.

Cheers.

PS. Yes I did stole Blindside's quote. hehe


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## Steel Tiger (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I'm flying blind here, guys. What do you think is real? Anyone had real experience against a knife weilder? Good books for the subject? _Real_ ways to practice? (how eften does a guy do a wide overhand stab?!). I have no idea except that it'll probably be in me before I know for sure he's got it. (I also know running is the best option, we're assuming it's not an option). Thanks, guys.


 
Knives are fast, lethal, and sinister.  They appear and disappear min the blink of an eye.  If you go up against one unarmed you should be prepared to get cut (not necessarily a debilitating or lethal blow).  Finding a weapon of some sort would be best, but if that's not an option you need to get in close, get control of the blade, and then work the guy hard.


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## Bill Bednarick (Jun 5, 2007)

Blindside said:


> From the inside I tend to "snake wrap" their weapon arm with my arm on that side, I get alot of control that way and more control of their body than two arms on the weapon limb., and it gives me more weapons to hurt them with.  I dont' go for disarms much, I'm more interested in securing the weapon followed by shutting down the CPU.  From the outside it it is usually a tricep grab to get control of the weapon arm followed by *something.*
> 
> Edit: This is assuming I'm in close, "past the point of the blade" as Mr. Beldnarick put it, it is the job of my footwork to get me to that place, backed up by my ability to pass the knife.
> 
> Lamont



Nice post Lamont!

The most interesting thing about it is you are NOT talking about defending.  You are talking about attacking the attacker. 

That means you are one of those people that are very hard to touch with a training knife.


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## arnisador (Jun 5, 2007)

Blindside said:


> From the inside I tend to "snake wrap" their weapon arm with my arm on that side, I get alot of control that way and more control of their body than two arms on the weapon limb., and it gives me more weapons to hurt them with.



This can work very well, and I do hate having two of my hands occupied on one of theirs. But, with a big knife especially I worry if the knife could slip and get me in the back or something. I prefer to have better control, personally. If you get the snake wrap tight, of course, it's great.



> I dont' go for disarms much, I'm more interested in securing the weapon followed by shutting down the CPU.  From the outside it it is usually a tricep grab to get control of the weapon arm followed by *something.*


After gaining control I emphasize lots of knee strikes and such. If that's enough, or a takedown appears, great! Otherwise, I feel that at some point one must disarm--hopefully by hitting them enough that they're groggy enough that you can basically just take the knife.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

Great Posts guys.  Thanks for your info.  Another thing to consider is that there are knives and then there are KNIVES.  Ice-pick, SRK, tanto..., aussie/rambo/steaknife...


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## Blindside (Jun 6, 2007)

arnisador said:


> This can work very well, and I do hate having two of my hands occupied on one of theirs. But, with a big knife especially I worry if the knife could slip and get me in the back or something. I prefer to have better control, personally. If you get the snake wrap tight, of course, it's great.


 
Alot of times when I snake the arm I'm fairly high on the arm, usually the other person pulls back, to free the arm, I let them, and then secure the snake wrap right above the wrist.  It then becomes the "monkey and the bottle" where as long as they have the grip on the knife they arm can't pull free.  Also when the wrap is that close there isn't  much room to maneuver the knife, particularly in sak-sak (saber grip) where all they can do is tip rip, if they are in pakal (icepick) they can do more, but not compared to if they had the arm free.


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## Blindside (Jun 6, 2007)

Bill Bednarick said:


> That means you are one of those people that are very hard to touch with a training knife.


 
I wish my training partners thought so.


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## Blindside (Jun 6, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> Great Posts guys. Thanks for your info. Another thing to consider is that there are knives and then there are KNIVES. Ice-pick, SRK, tanto..., aussie/rambo/steaknife...


 
Actually, they type of knife doesn't really matter.  It will either thrust or slash, or both, the methodology doesn't really change between how you deal with the blade.  The biggest difference I find with different sized weapons is that the smaller ones are harder to disarm, but as I said before, I'm not big into disarming, oh, and more importantly the smaller knives are harder to see.


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## thetruth (Jun 6, 2007)

As previously mentioned 2 hands on the wheel is a fairly widely regarded way to go. It's what I was taught. Then depending on your attackers movements what follows up could be anything.  As far as running goes this is far more dangerous from a knife attacker than an unarmed one. You would want to be 1000000% sure you could outrun them and you knew where you were going or you will be in serious strife. I'd much rather keep my eyes on the attacker and his weapon.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 6, 2007)

I found when I was training knife "defense" that once you have the arm snaked, instead of a disarm you can often opt for a limb destruction.  Problem is I always get "cut" (toy knives...) in the abdomen or armpit when trying to snake the knife-arm.  I could use more practice in all areas but I feel my biggest problem is keeping precision at top speed.


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## MJS (Jun 7, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I'm flying blind here, guys. What do you think is real? Anyone had real experience against a knife weilder? Good books for the subject? _Real_ ways to practice? (how eften does a guy do a wide overhand stab?!). I have no idea except that it'll probably be in me before I know for sure he's got it. (I also know running is the best option, we're assuming it's not an option). Thanks, guys.


 
Great thread topic!:ultracool  No, have never had anyone pull a blade on me.  Hopefully, that'll never happen.   As for reference material on the subject:  Jerry Wetzel from Centerline Gym has some great stuff.  Of course, there are many Kali/Arnis/FMA systems that have great material as well.  

Real ways to train:  There are some great training tools out there such as no lie blades and Shocknife both of which offer a bit more reality in your training.   During my blade training sessions, in addition to the one thrust or single overhead stab, we drill multiple stabs, thrusts, slashes, etc.  Personally, I prefer to gain control first and then attempt a disarm.  

Mike


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## MJS (Jun 7, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> After that if you can, get an equalizer of some sort whether
> it be a knife, stick, club, firearm, etc. (a better tool is always
> a good idea)


 
Agreed 100%!! If that option is available, its one to take advantage of.

Mike


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## MJS (Jun 7, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I found when I was training knife "defense" that once you have the arm snaked, instead of a disarm you can often opt for a limb destruction. Problem is I always get "cut" (toy knives...) in the abdomen or armpit when trying to snake the knife-arm. I could use more practice in all areas but I feel my biggest problem is keeping precision at top speed.


 
We work on a flow drill which consists of the attacker doing two high slashes followed by two lower slashes.  This passing motion on the defenders part, is done with the back of the hand/arm.  During the pass, we redirect the slash back towards the other person.  Doing this, should create some extra space and should prevent some of the cuts you mention.  Then again, getting cut is something we need to expect. 

Mike


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## SKB (Jun 8, 2007)

When you talk about knives everyones tells you to exspect to get cut. You also need to exspect to LIVE after being cut. I work in a prison and have seen LOTS of people cut and stabbed. One cut does not kill you and after fifteen or so years I have only seen two people die from one stab wound. I have seen alot of people freak out after being cut or stabbed once and this allowed the attacker to cut and stab them more.


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## jks9199 (Jun 8, 2007)

SKB said:


> When you talk about knives everyones tells you to exspect to get cut. You also need to exspect to LIVE after being cut. I work in a prison and have seen LOTS of people cut and stabbed. One cut does not kill you and after fifteen or so years I have only seen two people die from one stab wound. I have seen alot of people freak out after being cut or stabbed once and this allowed the attacker to cut and stab them more.


Good point.

I can't help but wonder if the difference in expectation is why cops get killed with single bullets while the bad guys take several shots and keep fighting.

It's also very smart for anyone who thinks they may get involved in a knife fight to learn enough first aid & self-administered tactics to deal with the shock and injury.


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## megat (Jun 10, 2007)

hmmmm the first thing u have to do is get over the fear of him having a knife. if u guys freak out than nothing is worth it. and try to observe him , his stance and the way he hold it, u can tell a skilled knife fighter and just some dude holding it from the stance and the way they hold it.


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## stabpunch (Jun 11, 2007)

Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?

Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.


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## MJS (Jun 11, 2007)

stabpunch said:


> Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?


 
Hmmm...what are the odds of facing someone with the skill of a MMAist?  What about a pro boxer?  My point is, if you're training for self defense, I would want to be as prepared as possible.  Better to have a tech. and not need it, than to need it and not have it!  Fact is, we don't know what anyones skill is until the situation starts to unfold.  I think the odds of me facing a highly trained MMAist, are on the same level as me facing a FMA master..pretty slim.  Again, I feel that its better to prep for the worst case scenario.

Mike


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## shesulsa (Jun 11, 2007)

stabpunch said:


> Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?
> 
> Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.



There are punks who carry knives and then there are knife fighters.  They are the ones who practice.  Those who have deadly intent will come at you fast and with purpose.

A "real" chance?  What do you call a "real" chance?  Do people like this exist? Yes.  Do they live in various locations all over the globe? Yes.  Does the average person have a chance in hades of escaping people like this?  Mmm ... maybe.


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## SKB (Jun 11, 2007)

I think the real problem is not the highly skilled knife fighter for most people. The threat is the 'bad guy' who has picked up some skills along the way. There is so much information out there you never can be sure what some knows or does not know.


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## megat (Jun 11, 2007)

hmmm yeah with the internet it is possible to get a few move, i think it better to run away. if it is impossible to run away maksure u cover ur arm. a leather jacket is preferable. if u have a weapon use it too, maybe find a stick or sumtin. and when he is out of the way runnnnnn.


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## stabpunch (Jun 11, 2007)

Yes yes, i agree, preparing for the worst. Yet try not to become paranoid at the same time.

I just feel that a knife fighter with deadly intent isn't really going to want to attack me unless he's like out of hanibal rising and i call his woman names. On the other hand a street punk who's picked up a few moves on the internet may want my wallet and seems more realistic.

So just being a nice person should offer a level of defense against knife wielding psycopaths. Yet martial techniques would defend against street punks. 

Myself back to the wall i'm a trap and bomb. Secure the knife arm at all costs and learn him why he shouldn't try and stab people or threaten them, because it's just plain ungentlemanly.

Now with the internet and grocerie delivery we should never have to go outside again and thus avoid any chance of interaction and thus forming the best defence... couching potato hidden beer belly


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 12, 2007)

More great posts!  I feel my jacket would come in handy to tie up the arm or get in the way of his vision.  You only need an instant, hopefully you make the right "choice" in that instant.


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## arnisador (Jun 12, 2007)

stabpunch said:


> Do you think that there is ever any real chance of facing a skilled knife fighter?
> 
> Ok this is geographic now, the guys that carry knives down here strike me more the stabstabstab type, than the 1,2,3 puk pass return type.



I think the danger is that while they may have only picked up one trick from a fellow criminal in jail...if that one trick gets you, that's that. As someone mentioned, you can find web pages with knife _attack _tutorials. An expert? Unlikely. Some knowledge? It can happen.

Most knife attacks are domestic assaults with kitchen knives, I believe.


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## SKB (Jun 13, 2007)

There are guys in prison who I would call knife fighting experts. The knife, how ever crude, is the predominate weapon in prison. They do pass the knowledge on to each other and you should take them as a real threat. I rather go against some of the MA folks I have seen wield a knife then most of the real killers in prison who have a knife.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 14, 2007)

SKB said:


> There are guys in prison who I would call knife fighting experts. The knife, how ever crude, is the predominate weapon in prison. They do pass the knowledge on to each other and you should take them as a real threat. I rather go against some of the MA folks I have seen wield a knife then most of the real killers in prison who have a knife.


 
Graet  point.

We  do  alot of knife stuff  in our Jujutsu school,one  of our sensei's  (who sadly passed on 2 months ago)  was very well versed in  a few different knife fightin methods, and he felt some of the Prison/Biker  stuff was the hardest to defend against.

 If your school practices knife defense, where the attacker satnces out and stabs  at your gut, leaving the knife out there, yoiu are not training for the reality of how criminal tend to do it, thye recipicate it in and out  and usually multiple times. You really have a problem when the alternate hig low, side, up and hit you in differnt spots with their free hand, it's called amping. You have to get off  line or jam the knife, or you are in for a hospital stay or much worse.

 The more you study kinfe fighting and  knifeing, the more you dont want to ever have to  face one.

 Antoher thing to think about, many prison trained knifers, tie or tape the knife to their hand, so they dont drop it, run their hand up the blade and to make it hard to take away.

Google "Piper  system, knife fighting" for some nasty criminal based knife work.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 14, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> Graet point.
> 
> We do alot of knife stuff in our Jujutsu school,one of our sensei's (who sadly passed on 2 months ago) was very well versed in a few different knife fightin methods, and he felt some of the Prison/Biker stuff was the hardest to defend against.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent!
Thanks.


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## arnisador (Jun 14, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> he felt some of the Prison/Biker  stuff was the hardest to defend against.
> 
> If your school practices knife defense, where the attacker satnces out and stabs  at your gut, leaving the knife out there, yoiu are not training for the reality of how criminal tend to do it, thye recipicate it in and out  and usually multiple times. You really have a problem when the alternate hig low, side, up and hit you in differnt spots with their free hand, it's called amping. You have to get off  line or jam the knife, or you are in for a hospital stay or much worse.
> 
> ...



Great points here, and the Piper system was what I was thinking of when I mentioned that some of this material could be found on the web.

The repeated stabs are so hard to deal with. Getting offline and jamming the knife arm and taking it back into their body are some of the better options in what is a really, really bad situation.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 14, 2007)

I should have proofread  my post better, I'm glad it made some sense  with all the errors.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Jun 14, 2007)

A few post have mentioned  "getting cut" when doing knife defense, well one thing our Sensei always says "Expect to get cut, but you can live with a cut, even with a life threatening cut ( excluding the throat) you still have time to kill him and get help, but stabs tend to put people down quick.  If you don't get cut, great! but dont expect not to get cut."

  He says this almost every time we work with knives,  and that is a good thing, it keeps you grounded, after 10 years with him, I never tire of it and when I teach, I repeat it.

 When we train, we are honest with each other about what happend, when you feel the knfe  slide   against your stomach with some pressure, you know that might have opened you up, but if you had contact with Uke, you had a chance, if you feel it poke your guy, you know there was a good chance you would have gone down.

  Be it Jujutsu or when I train with Dave Wink's FMA/IMA group,  getting cut is the price of admission  to take the guy out.

 And then there is the give to get,   sometimes you have to take the knife in the forearm, to stick yours in his throat, stomach or bladder ( my favorite target, blood loss, shock, system destruction and poisoning=  dead  bad guy  who wont get to lie in court.)

  yeah, 90%  of the time I have 1-2 knives on me.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 15, 2007)

Ever fought a german sheppard?
If you offer him your forearm he'll go for your nuts, but if he makes the first move and you get your forearm in the way and he bites down on it, you can grab his throat.  Just saw some relation there.


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## SKB (Jun 16, 2007)

Since we started with knives..... get your knife out and drive it in the dogs eye!


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## tellner (Jun 16, 2007)

O Noes! The Eternal Dog-Fu Thread!


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 18, 2007)

I meant it in the sense of using part of your body as a "scapegoat" for the rest of your body to accomplish it's mission.  Like I said, relation.  No point discussing specifics.  Metaphorically, give them an arm to chew on.  Possibility not to ignore.


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## megat (Jun 18, 2007)

but u gotta be careful even a slash at the arm can slice tendons and nerves, maybe u will survive but ur hand may not be the same again.


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## bonviet (Jun 19, 2007)

hi don't know if this thread is still active, I'm new to the forums, have done FMA and alot of silat plus ww2 h2h knife work, and have been stabbed on one occasion, cut badly on the hands a second and preempted getting killed by assaulting him first. I've also use a knife in defense of my person(i wrote about some of this in a response to the piper system) i can understadn the dillemia and absolute frustration of BS flowing about dealing with a knife, plus a few stick ups
I would look heavily into countering the sewing machine effect that anyone with half a brain uses when trying to kill you with a knife,it is almost instinct, maybe some waving about first, but the committed man goes in and stabs you! I survived because i focused on NOT getting stabbed again. thank god with good medical care and some luck it's hard to die from one stab(im qualifying that one stab is VERY dangerous it's the contiued bulldogging with the knife that gets people killed.
I can only speak from personal experience the majority of your knife training should be empty handed against the knife, you will lose alot but you will start to see what works(armored uncooperative training partners are a must) Buzzsaw the face with palm heels and thumb gouges,If contact with the blade is made wrap it. grab it anything to prevent it from going into you over and over again.(play with this you might find interesting solutions etc. then immediately attack his testicles please research this there is no position where two people are "hugging up" where you can't reach around and obtain his scrotum from some angle. this area is an area that people cannot have squeezed yanked and twisted,i know it's dirt and not taught in classes but it works great it's so much more sensitive than even the eyes and is hard to block against in a clinch.

Controling distance will be as hard for him as it will be for you so hopefully you can negate some of his effectiveness,

and in a situation where you are worrying about distance i believe this is squaring off which never happens, run or preempt if you see the square off. Charge!

in an ambush most likely you'll feel the first stab. i did and knew immediately what it was. The absolute viciousness and one mindedness of your counterattack(immediate anything will save the day if anything will,) i attacked back with no regards for my safety (i was already on the dying ground)
Fight with this attitude it has turned many a fight,
As suggestions,
Get the crappy old pentecost book it will ruffle feathers. look at it play with it (with some protective gear) and see how it goes.
there are other books out there let me think on which i would get(spent a ton on MA videos etc and found most to be attribute drills not combat ones,
The ability to close with and go through your enemy if need be would be on my top 3-4 things that i saw as positive learning experiences from my assaults it is key to knife survival and multiple assaliant survival but so few of us can do it. for years i couldn't. practice that. Scared but Blasting through any way, all the way through the enemy, IT sounds so simple but is so important if he is worried about his sudden loss of balance his startle of being attacked hopefully with Powerful palms, gouges knees scream butting etc(this wasn't supposed to happen) ,his eyes or throat being damaged or the squeezing and yanking of his testicles while you bite and head butt him to the Ground just ferocity absolute ferocity,hopefully wrapping up the knife if possible, That is how you survive
 To start a knife training with a knife drawn two partners ready to Dance around to do knife v empty hands has already shot the realism of the training in the foot.RUN. Tapi-tapi hubub etc with a knife builds aliveness but not counter blade skills,good taisabaki skills olay! stuff is betting the farm but if pulled off almost guarantees an attackers overexstention and position to be one of great disadvantage when before you were toast. but requires alot of practice, Train getting stabbed and ambushed, you'll be suprised what you come up with.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 20, 2007)

Welcome to MartialTalk!  Great post, IMO.  I love hearing from those who've been there.  I feel this is one of the most important concepts to practice and discuss as far as SD is concerned.  How about a particular kind of "legal" (explainable to police.  it's tough to explain why you have a gun) weapon that works particularly well against a "knifer" that you could pack with you?  I like the umbrella.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm also a nose biter...


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## Blindside (Jun 20, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk! Great post, IMO. I love hearing from those who've been there. I feel this is one of the most important concepts to practice and discuss as far as SD is concerned. How about a particular kind of "legal" (explainable to police. it's tough to explain why you have a gun) weapon that works particularly well against a "knifer" that you could pack with you? I like the umbrella.


 
Why is it difficult to explain?  "Yes officer, I carry a concealed handgun (or open carry as you can do in my state) just in case I need to defend myself."  There really isn't another justfication for a handgun.

Lamont


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 20, 2007)

I live in Canada.  As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol.  Rifles are different but pistols are "bad".  If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years".  I wonder if legalizing guns would reduce the number of knife attacks.


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## Blindside (Jun 20, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I live in Canada. As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol. Rifles are different but pistols are "bad". If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years".


 
Ok, that would do it.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 20, 2007)

*sigh*  Some people will never know the simple pleasures of a monkey knife fight.


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## SKB (Jun 20, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I live in Canada. As far as I can tell, unless you have a trigger lock on it, keep it in a safe in the basement, under a blanket with all the lights off, you aren't allowed to own a pistol. Rifles are different but pistols are "bad". If you use one against someone armed with a knife, "you are the worst kind of scum and you didn't fight fair, blah blah blah 25 years". I wonder if legalizing guns would reduce the number of knife attacks.


 
You guys can have knives up there?


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 21, 2007)

We use sharp Icescicles.  Or we take our knives from unsuspecting tourists.  We have no knife factories up here.


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