# private instruction



## Runs With Fire (Apr 26, 2015)

I am a first, soon to be second dan.  I am considering private lessons.  What would be an acceptable rate to charge/ pay for quality private lessons?  What have you charged/ payed?


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## Andrew Green (Apr 26, 2015)

Have a look at personal trainers and what they charge in your area, if you are dealing with kids maybe look at private tutor rates.

If you're intention is a income, you're probably $60+ / hour.  If it's just a hobby and beer money you can charge what ever you want.  Group classes generally work out to somewhere around $12-20 / class in a commercial facility, private lessons should obviously be a fair bit more.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 27, 2015)

You've got a couple of things that go into the question of "what is an acceptable rate?"

1) What will the market bear? How much demand is there for the material you have to teach? How much demand is there for *you* specifically? How much competition do you have?

2) How much do you have to charge for it to be worth your time and energy? (This is a personal question that only you can answer.)

If the answers to #1 and #2 overlap, then congratulations! You're in business.

I currently charge $50/hour for private lessons. Factors that go into that rate are as follows:

I have 33 years of martial arts experience + black belts in BJJ and a couple of other arts.
I have a reputation as being a relatively good instructor.
I am not a great competitor or tournament champion.
I teach out of a school that has several BJJ black belts as well as other skilled instructors.
Our student base is not particularly wealthy, so $50 is a significant chunk of change.
I have not spent much time or effort marketing myself as a private instructor.
I have a regular day job that pays the bills
I enjoy teaching.


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## TSDTexan (Jul 19, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> You've got a couple of things that go into the question of "what is an acceptable rate?"
> 
> 1) What will the market bear? How much demand is there for the material you have to teach? How much demand is there for *you* specifically? How much competition do you have?
> 
> ...




Question... What if any application does Ho Sin Sul bear in anti-grappling? As a BB in BJJ, you are right where I want to be. After 22 years working in TSDMDK, and just now heading to the mats, I am very curious.


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## ChrisN (Jul 19, 2015)

There has been some good points made here so I’ve just go a couple to add. 
First off you need to cover your costs. If you’re training in an equipped salie or someone’s back yard will make a huge difference to what you can charge. 
What’s the insurance? 
How much is your time worth? 
All thing to consider.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 19, 2015)

TSDTexan said:


> Question... What if any application does Ho Sin Sul bear in anti-grappling? As a BB in BJJ, you are right where I want to be. After 22 years working in TSDMDK, and just now heading to the mats, I am very curious.



By Ho sin Sul, you mean stuff like this?















(Apologies if these aren't good examples. They seem to be typical of the sort of things I've seen in TKD schools in the past.)

Firstly, I would consider these techniques to be basic grappling (sometimes with some strikes mixed in) rather than "anti-grappling."

Secondly, training grappling this way is pretty much equivalent to those striking drills where the "attacker" throws a lunge punch that comes up 6 inches short of the target at full extension, then stands there frozen with the punch outstretched while the defender demonstrates a whole sequence of counterattacks. When the "attack" is that far from anything resembling a real threat, it's hard to develop useful skill even if the techniques are valid.

To elaborate - if a grappler grabs you, it's not a static position where he's waiting around for you to demonstrate your technique. He's going to be actively working to break your balance and structure and he's going to react to whatever you are doing. He's working to disrupt whatever techniques you are attempting. He may be pulling you to a bad angle to set up strikes or takedowns. If you start breaking his grip, he may be already transitioning to a new one. He may be anticipating your escape and using it to set up his next attack.

I'm not saying that you have to do full-out live grappling all the time. However, even when you are drilling techniques in isolation you need to understand the realistic context and energy and intention behind the attacks you are drilling against.

I'm sure there are TKD practitioners out there who train Ho Sin Sul techniques in a realistic and practical way. Unfortunately stuff like the videos above seem to be much more common from what I've seen.


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## TSDTexan (Jul 19, 2015)

Well, setting aside tkd, which arguably is a sport and returning to KMA combat styles that are taught to LEOs... And the like... The Ho Sin Sul types I am talking about are lapel and collar grabs defenses, and wrist grab fighting...
These were drilled until the became purely reflex, at places like Osan Air Base, in the 1950s.

If you have to think about "um, he grabbed my left GI collar with his right hand so I am supposed to pivot while dropping into a front stance with my right leg back, while striking his elbow with my left while seizing his contact hand's wrist with with an overhand grip" the fight was over before the lapel was grabbed.

I am talking about, peripheral vision sees a hand approaching the collar/lapel... And the hand graps the collar lapel... And the attacker finds himself in a great deal of pain, armbarred, or such... And is thinking to himself, maybe I shouldn't have done that.

The last video at 1:01 has what I am talking about at a super slow speed.

Drilled to the degree of blinking and breathing.


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