# short two (in tracy... maybe epak is similar, don't know)



## Sam (May 9, 2005)

having some trouble remembering short two... the end anyway...

what comes next? (I should have practiced more when I actually remembered...)

Right inward block, chop
Left inward block, chop
cat stance, facing left, L punch
cat stance, facing right, L punch
Upward block, facing back wall, eagle beak down the ribs
Upward block, facing front wall, eagle beak down the ribs
cat stance facing back right corner, downward block, step through, palm
cat stance facing back left corner, downward block, step through, palm


now what? I believe I was doing a cover block and half fists, but I dont remember in which direction I was moving, which arm was up, and how my feet were getting there.... help??
EDIT - oh, also, what sort of block before half-fisting?


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 9, 2005)

Turn CW 180 degrees, cat stance, left inward block (front right corner)
Right foot steps up to fighting horse stance, right upward block (front right corner)
Without stepping, left half-fist under block
Turn 90 degrees CCW, cat stance,  right inward block (front left corner)
Left foot steps to left front corner, fighting horse stance, left upward block
Without stepping, right half-fist under block
Right foot steps up to square horse, salute

Hope this helps.  Never had to write it out before .


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## rmcrobertson (May 10, 2005)

1. try using the, "clock principle," rather than this, "corner," stuff. 

2. Those aren't exactly blocks-and-chops.

3. What are the foot maneuvers you're using again? Hands won't mean a thing without them.

4. The strikes to 9:00 and 3:00 at the start are: a) left vert. outward block/right punch; b) right vert outward block/left punch.

5. There's a left rear cross, before you unwind and drop to a wide kneel facing 6:00 with the upward block and right vert. middle knuckle.

6. Then, you cover to 12:00 into a right wide kneel.

7. From there, pivot to 6:00 into a left cat stance.

8. Slide left foot to 4:30 with a left outward-downward block.

9. Step through to a right neutral bow along that same line, delivering a right heel-palm claw as you settle and checking at your rib-cage with your left hand as you do so.

There's more. But worry more about the foot maneuvers and stances; and keep your elbow over your knee, your fist over your foot is a pretty good rule for this form.


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## KenpoDave (May 10, 2005)

That is correct in a general way, and Randy's description will finish it off for you.  To section 2, though, you need to add a vertical outward block done simultaneously with the punches.


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## Sam (May 10, 2005)

just so you know, I know all the feet moves, and am not having a problem with them, which is why I didnt bother to write them down. thanks for all your help.


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## rmcrobertson (May 10, 2005)

If you really knew, "all the feet moves," you wouldn't be describing the form this way, I'm afraid. In particular, you'd emphasize the wide kneels to 6:00 and 12:00, which are a bit of a bear to learn. Again, you might want to try Mr. Parker's, "clock principle," approach: the "corner," approqach might be a bit more difficult to learn and use. Or not.

Additionally, the "eagle beak," strikes actually go to center-line and sternum--not quite exactly ribs. The upward blocks were adapted into extended outwards in some kenpo; the "fighting horses," are more-usually described as neutral bow stances.


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## Sam (May 11, 2005)

I'm simply repeating what was taught to me -perhaps we were taught different things. You may be accurate on some of this, but I know for a fact I was taught to ribs, because my instructor and I had a good laugh at the thought of playing the ribs similar to the xylophone... we had an interesting sound effect to go along with it...


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## MJS (May 11, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> If you really knew, "all the feet moves," you wouldn't be describing the form this way, I'm afraid. In particular, you'd emphasize the wide kneels to 6:00 and 12:00, which are a bit of a bear to learn. Again, you might want to try Mr. Parker's, "clock principle," approach: the "corner," approqach might be a bit more difficult to learn and use. Or not.
> 
> Additionally, the "eagle beak," strikes actually go to center-line and sternum--not quite exactly ribs. The upward blocks were adapted into extended outwards in some kenpo; the "fighting horses," are more-usually described as neutral bow stances.



Rather than always make negative comments towards the way someone trains, we need to keep in mind that there just may be a slight variation in the way Samantha was taught.  You are describing YOUR way of doing the form.  Do you know how her inst. is doing it? Have you seen him do it?  Have you listened to his explaination of doing it? If the answer to any of these questions is no, rather than making a comment saying shes doing it wrong, keep an open mind, and understand that there are variations out there.

Mike


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## pete (May 11, 2005)

> SHORT 2
> 
> Start facing the first opponent in a square horse stance. Hands are held in the weapon shield position.
> 
> ...


samantha, this was lifted from a tracy site (www.kenpousa.com) and should contain terminology you are used to... things like clock principle and names of stances used in other descriptions are taught in epak... the form is essentially the same.  pete.


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## rmcrobertson (May 11, 2005)

Well, Mike, I can see your point, I suppose. But Mike, rather than endlessly waiting to jump down my throat, whyn't you try taking your own advice? After all, I initially wrote that the forms might be different. And do the thread a favor--when you reply, just explain why I'm describing the form wrongly, rather than indulging in yet another of your personal attacks?

As long as I'm here and being the Devil, though, a couple of points. 

In American kenpo, here are the foot maneuvers for Short 2:

1. Salutation, and meditating horse stance oriented to 12:00.
2. Slide right foot forward to R neutral bow; "settle," into stance.
3. Slide left foor forward into L neut. bow; "settle."
4. Pivot hips left, as left foot drags back to L 45 cat
5. L foot, "c-steps," around to L reverse bow stance oriented to 9:00
6. Pivot hips left, to left neutral bow to 9:00
7. Pivot right, as R foot drags in to right cat stance
8. R foot c-steps around to R reverse bow stance oriented to 3:00
9. Pivot R to R neutral bow stance
10. L foot rear crosses to 4: 30; "wide rear twist stance."
11. Pivot L to settle into a L neutral bow stance oriented to 6:00
12. Drop to L wide kneel stance, oriented to 6:00
13. R foot covers; pivot toward 12:00 into a R wide kneel stance
14. Pivot L to L cat stance oriented to 6:00
15. Slide L foot towards 4:30, settling into L neut. bow stance
16. Step through down that same line, to R neutral bow 
17. Pivot R to R cat stance oriented to 6:00; repeat "slide," of right foot to 7:30 and R Neut. bow, followed by step through L to L neutral bow stance.
18. Pivot R. to R cat stance oriented to 1:30; slide R foot to R neutral bow along that line.
19. Pivot L to L cat stance oriented to 10:30; slide L foot to L neutral bow along that 10:30 line. 
20. Slide R foot forward to horse stance oriented to 12:00.
21. Close; close with salutation. 

Source (modified slightly): E. Parker, "Inf. Insights Into Kenpo: Vol. 5, mental and Physical Applications," 40 ff.

Notes:
a) the "clock principle," is easier to use than the, "step to corner," idea, and  will eventually make it easier to change the orientqation of the form.
b) the middle knuckle rake is accomplished primarily by dropping the stance
c) I am dubious that the "eagle's beak," or middle-knuckle will be effective used against a "corrugated," surface such as that the ribcage provides. The general rule is that each weapon specifically fits its targets; I could certainly be wrong, but the more-common application for this strike in this form is against an attacker's throat and/or sternum. 
d) the block accompanying the half-fist punch is an extended outward block; interestingly, I was first taught an upward block, and this was subsequently modified.
e) the poster who noted that you should step up to the closing horse stance made a nice point.

Samantha, my apologies for the rudeness; I should know better than to post when I'm really tired. 

"MJS," you were yourself quite rude.


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## MJS (May 11, 2005)

Sorry you feel that I'm jumping down your throat Rob, but thats not the case.  Please don't cry foul when someone replies to you a little snippy....afterall, your reply to Samantha was less than friendly IMO.  In addition, I never stated that you're doing the form incorrectly.  If you re-read, you'll see that I stated that you are explaining the form the way you do it.  Keep in mind that, as I said, there may be some slight variations that her inst. is having her do.  Unless we know this for a fact, then its wrong to say to someone that what they're doing is wrong.

In addition, my reply to you was as a member, not a Mod. warning.  If you have a problem with a post, feel free to hit that little RTM button and address your concerns.

Mike


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 12, 2005)

So, Samantha- after all this, did you make it through the form?


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## Sam (May 12, 2005)

yes, I did.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 12, 2005)

Excellent!  I was afraid we might've put you off the subject .
Good luck in training.


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## Sam (May 12, 2005)

woot woot!

I must have done it perfectly...


because after my private lesson tonight I was informed that I will be testing for my purple belt next thursday because, "your stuff looks pretty solid".

*celebrates*


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 12, 2005)

Mega-congrats!  Let us know how it goes.


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## Ceicei (May 12, 2005)

Samantha,

artyon:  Keep training hard!!!  Congratulations!

  - Ceicei


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## Kenpo_man (Jul 1, 2005)

Hey Samantha

You got good advice on the kata from most of the people here it sounds like. It really is a good idea to use the clock as a reference to figure out footwork I've found. I teach kenpo full time and it seems to really work with most students. In regards to hitting the ribs or hitting the sternum, I've been taught that you are to hit the little bone that hangs off the sternum called the xiphoid process. You can feel it if you push on it but don't push too hard. Using an eagle's beak in a downward trajectory can break the bone off and jam it into the descending aorta causing internal bleeding which is obviously followed by death. (scary stuff!) The bone, however, is made up up of cartilage and doesn't fully harden until about age forty so it is a little more useful if the opponent is older. Sorry to get so off topic but it came up and I wanted to give my two cents and see who agrees or has been taught differently. Maybe on another thread???


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