# What martial arts should I study?



## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Hello everyone!
I'm 19 years old, and I've been doing taekwondo for the last three years: at the moment I'm a green belt, since I skipped the last two exams due to school/university (I got my high school diploma on July and took my first exams on Jan).
In the last six months, I've been "influenced" by the TV series Daredevil: even if I'm definitely not going to be a (blind) vigilante, I'd like to learn some of the interesting techniques performed; at the same time, it would also be great to refine my senses. I know it could sound childlish, but I think it's not: I'm not looking for superhuman senses, I'd just like to improve my perceptive skills as much as I can.

Here are some videos to show you some techniques I'd love to learn:





00:15, I think it's a joint breaking technique. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work against a person willing to kill you in real life, but I took this example in order to show the kind of "self-defense thing" I'm interested on.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1646729508896619
			




Some fighting styles





01:35, maybe. I don't know if this is realistc: probably not.

Even if I'm a bit busy right now, I feel like in two months I'll be ready to start another martial art (without dropping tkd, of course): considering all I've said, what do you think I could start with?

Thanks for your help!


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 14, 2016)

Arm breaks only work in real fights if you are skilled enough to watch for the opportunity. If you don't practice looking for technique openings, you will always be too late.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 14, 2016)

That last vid was fantasy.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Arm breaks only work in real fights if you are skilled enough to watch for the opportunity. If you don't practice looking for technique openings, you will always be too late.



Of course, if I had thought the opposite, I would have just bought some dvds.
I think that, if you have a good master, martial art training can put you in a situation which is as close as possible to a real one. I'm not saying you can be 100% sure that you'll be able to fight back on the street (i.e.: if it's possibile, it's better to run and avoid the fight), but there's a possibility you could survive, especially if your aggressor is not holding a fire gun.



Touch Of Death said:


> That last vid was fantasy.



Yeah, the last one is fantasy, and probably even the most durable man couldn't stand all those hits, but it's not supposed to be a "martial arts tv series". That said, all choreographies are pretty enjoyable.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 14, 2016)

Looking for long arm attacks is the equivalent of looking for the sweep. They just plain give it to you.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Looking for long arm attacks is the equivalent of looking for the sweep. They just plain give it to you.



What do you mean with "long arm attacks"? Attacks "applied" to a full extended arm?
Even if I can speak english, I'm from Italy, so I'm not probably going to understand some "technical" terms. I'm sorry about that.


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## Buka (Mar 14, 2016)

Welcome to Martial Talk, Ledz96.

Before offering any opinion as to what art you might take, what Arts are offered in a reasonable distance to where you live or work?


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

the acrobatic moves in the last video at 1:15 might be from capoeira. such is called tricking.
a shoulder throw when being choked might be possible, also a jumping forward roll. you'll find the basics for that especially in judo.
from what i saw furthermore (mix of punches, kicks, armlocks/"breaks") you'll find it in almost every martial art:
karate, taekwondo, hapkido, ju jutsu (not to be confused with brasilian jiu jitsu - only ground fighting there).


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Buka said:


> Welcome to Martial Talk, Ledz96.
> 
> Before offering any opinion as to what art you might take, what Arts are offered in a reasonable distance to where you live or work?



Thank you Buka! 

I'm not sure about it: I'm (hopefully) going to get my license on june. 'Till then, I'll have to move by bike and my options will be limited.
For now, I think I could attend just boxing, muai thai and krav maga courses. 
From june, I'll be able to chose among wing chun, karate, jkd, ninjutsu, kung fu hung gar, mma, aikido, capoeira and maybe more. I'm just trying to pick the best one in order to grow both as an athlete and as a person.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 14, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> What do you mean with "long arm attacks"? Attacks "applied" to a full extended arm?
> Even if I can speak english, I'm from Italy, so I'm not probably going to understand some "technical" terms. I'm sorry about that.


This could be as simple as watching for someone reaching for a pencil, but any time somebody extends their arm, for what ever reason, is open for a break, by simply hitting their elbow, opposite the thumb. Ninja trickery, you might call it.


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

don't think breaking arms is that easy. and arm catching is that easy.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> the acrobatic moves in the last video at 1:15 might be from capoeira. such is called tricking.
> a shoulder throw when being choked might be possible, also a jumping forward roll. you'll find the basics for that especially in judo.
> from what i saw furthermore (mix of punches, kicks, armlocks/"breaks") you'll find it in almost every martial art:
> karate, taekwondo, hapkido, ju jutsu (not to be confused with brasilian jiu jitsu - only ground fighting there).



Thank you! 
Anything on the "senses" part? Some friends told me that mindfulness meditation might be a good way. It also helps fighting stress (which I need, since studying computer engineering might be stressful at times)



Touch Of Death said:


> This could be as simple as watching for someone reaching for a pencil, but any time somebody extends their arm, for what ever reason, is open for a break, by simply hitting their elbow, opposite the thumb. Ninja trickery, you might call it.



Well, I completely misunderstood what you were saying ahah! 
Is the first action realistic, then?


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> don't think breaking arms is that easy. and arm catching is that easy.



I don't think it is easy at all. I hope I'll be lucky enough not to need to use any of my knowledge... and be sure that I'll be prepared to give even my own a** to anyone pointing a fire gun towards me. We're not in a movie.
That said, I think that studying martial arts with the right dedication can help you handling some situation, that might even be really dangerous.


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

armlocks and breaking joints is realistic, but it won't be easy like in movies and like "ninja" would tell you to get your money. arms aren't matchsticks and catching one of a punching opponent won't work in most cases.
not sure what you mean by "senses", but there is lot of meditation stuff out there from qigong to yoga.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 14, 2016)

It also won't work if you don't believe in trying.


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

i wouldn't say it if i never had tried to catch punching arms or to lock up arms from training partners when they didn't wanted me to lock it. especially guys 20-30 kilos heavier than me. 
thats why in ground fighting styles they often use their whole body to lock an arm. also striking isn't allowed there.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Well, all those stuffs are pretty new to me, since (as you probably know) they are not allowed in tkd.
What do you suggest?


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

my suggestion always is to mix things up. even mma isn't complete.
mma - sport, no specific self defense techniques (but of course most of it could used for self defense also)
krav maga - self defense without any show-stuff and very few ground fighting
but these are the most effective styles. from what you mentioned i personally wouldn`t do ninjutsu, wing chun and other kung fu. there are to many fake schools out there.
capoeira is lot of fun, kind of dance-fighting, but without grappling and not effective for self defense i guess.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> my suggestion always is to mix things up. even mma isn't complete.
> mma - sport, no specific self defense techniques (but of course most of it could used for self defense also)
> krav maga - self defense without any show-stuff and very few ground fighting
> but these are the most effective styles. from what you mentioned i personally wouldn`t do ninjutsu, wing chun and other kung fu. there are to many fake schools out there.
> capoeira is lot of fun, kind of dance-fighting, but without grappling and not effective for self defense i guess.



Well, I would have mixed things up anyway  I'd like to learn (meaning I'm so good I could teach them) at least 3 styles

Last year, before I moved to Turin, my taekwondo master was also a fantastic sifu: his master was Filippo Cuciuffo. Maybe I could ask him if the Wing Chun course in my town is run by a good master.


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## Buka (Mar 14, 2016)

Ledz, some things to consider -

You're probably paying tuition to study TKD. And you're about to get your driver's license, which is going to be an added expense because you're going to want to drive everywhere (just like the rest of us when we got ours) To take up another art will be another tuition.

You're young, you got lots of time. Maybe just stay with TKD for now and pursue other methods of research. List every art near you, get all the info from them - then go study all you can about each art (on line, a library, buy books, ask people here, etc) make it like a research project for yourself. Keep a big notebook.

See if there are any seminars of the arts you might be interested in, in an area near enough for you to get to. Go to one and talk to all the other attendees there.

But keep going to your dojo in the meantime.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

Buka said:


> Ledz, some things to consider -
> 
> You're probably paying tuition to study TKD. And you're about to get your driver's license, which is going to be an added expense because you're going to want to drive everywhere (just like the rest of us when we got ours) To take up another art will be another tuition.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your advice 
I asked in this forum in order to get a good overview: I'm not going to start any art unless I'm 100% sure (or as close as possible to 100%) it will become an important part of my life, like tkd has.
I'll try the "notebook" method, i think it will worth it!


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> capoeira is lot of fun,



True...



> kind of dance-fighting, but without grappling and not effective for self defense i guess.



Not a terribly accurate description.


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

for being more detailed, when african slaves came to brasil and were forbidden to learn fighting techniques they disguised it as dancing. i like to make it short. for more, i think, google or wikipedia are good sources.

back to the first question, since you have already a standup background i'd prefer a ground fighting art to get well rounded. so for example judo, jiu jitsu or submission wrestling if possible.


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## marques (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm afraid your references are not the best in the world...
If you want martial arts names, they are there (2nd video).
If you want cinematographic choreographies... Keysi Movie Action. 

Do you know Hapkido?


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

hapkido would be best, if its somewhere nearby him.
he'd remember many from taekwondo; the striking and kicking style as well as the korean terms. then there's locking and throwing like in aikido and judo, ground fighting, less than in jiu jitsu, but at least like in judo, i think, and then there are several weapons, from staff to sword.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> for being more detailed, when african slaves came to brasil and were forbidden to learn fighting techniques they disguised it as dancing. i like to make it short. for more, i think, google or wikipedia are good sources.
> 
> back to the first question, since you have already a standup background i'd prefer a ground fighting art to get well rounded. so for example judo, jiu jitsu or submission wrestling if possible.


I spent several years training capoeira and am well familiar with the history.  The "dance" aspect is inappropriately misunderstood and over-emphasized by the general public.  And the method can be quite useful as a fighting method, tho that would be different from the "game" of capoeira as played in the Roda.  There is overlap and it cannot be strictly pigeon-holed.  But most people do not understand this, so it's ok


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

well i wouldn't breakdance when being attacked, but yes, there are very strong kicks in it and it also was useful in mma, so it's no insult here. but for making dancebattles in the streets or at the beach with good music, it's still also a dancing style.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> well i wouldn't breakdance when being attacked, but yes, there are very strong kicks in it and it also was useful in mma, so it's no insult here. but for making dancebattles in the streets or at the beach with good music, it's still also a dancing style.


Well no, it's not a dancing style.  Yes, it is my understanding that break dancing was influenced by capoeira, and I had the opportunity to briefly meet the man who was probably responsible for that influence.  But capoeira is not a dance, tho it does contain some dance-like aspects that can be seen in various aspects of African cultures, especially from the pre-colonial and colonial eras.  But that is not the same as being a dance.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> for being more detailed, when african slaves came to brasil and were forbidden to learn fighting techniques they disguised it as dancing. i like to make it short. for more, i think, google or wikipedia are good sources.



I already know a bit about capoeira, mainly thanks to tekken-related stuffs 
It's interesting, but I feel like it wouldn't "complete" my formation as a martial artist



MAfreak said:


> back to the first question, since you have already a standup background i'd prefer a ground fighting art to get well rounded. so for example judo, jiu jitsu or submission wrestling if possible.
> 
> hapkido would be best, if its somewhere nearby him.
> he'd remember many from taekwondo; the striking and kicking style as well as the korean terms. then there's locking and throwing like in aikido and judo, ground fighting, less than in jiu jitsu, but at least like in judo, i think, and then there are several weapons, from staff to sword.



I'll do some research on hapkido! Does it include techniques which could be helpful also in self-defense? Are they in some way similar to the ones shown in the video?
Concerning the weapons, I'm thinking about escrima (got to know that martial art thanks to DD) or kendo (always liked it).



marques said:


> I'm afraid your references are not the best in the world...
> If you want martial arts names, they are there (2nd video).
> If you want cinematographic choreographies... Keysi Movie Action.
> 
> Do you know Hapkido?



Well, I want martial arts names, but I'm afraid that not all of them are included in the video. Morover, it talks about "kung fu", which is a bit general; and I'm also interested in the locking/joint breaking part, which I think is the most useful for self defense (even if it's better just to lock and threaten, if you can) and is not mentioned in the video.
I'll do some digging about Hapkido!


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

hapkido is for self defense. it has its weaknesses like all styles (as i mentioned earlier, people don't freeze after punching so one can grab or lock their arms) but you have that in every traditional style. hapkido has a lot of these armlocks you want. and hapkido is, from what i saw, less stiff in its exercises than others like karate. i saw even shadow boxing combinations there, so they are more dynamic than many other traditional styles.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> hapkido is for self defense. it has its weaknesses like all styles (as i mentioned earlier, people don't freeze after punching so one can grab or lock their arms) but you have that in every traditional style. hapkido has a lot of these armlocks you want. and hapkido is, from what i saw, less stiff in its exercises than others like karate. i saw even shadow boxing combinations there, so they are more dynamic than many other traditional styles.



What do you mean with "freezing after punching"?


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

something like this, this is very common in traditional arts and also trained that way when not for showing purposes




but punching people pull their arms back, maybe for the next strike, so if that would work, they'd do it in boxing and mma and wherever. but except of that i couldn't praise hapkido more.


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## drop bear (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> well i wouldn't breakdance when being attacked, but yes, there are very strong kicks in it and it also was useful in mma, so it's no insult here. but for making dancebattles in the streets or at the beach with good music, it's still also a dancing style.



It is influenced by ritual. But is also trained alive.  It is kind of a weird blend.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 14, 2016)

1) With regards to the general question of "which art should I study?", read this post, which really should be stickied at the top of this subforum.

2) With regards to the Daredevil choreography - most of the techniques (other than the flippy, spinny, flying bits) can be found in a variety of arts - karate, kung fu, krav maga, etc. The choreographer wasn't trying to portray a specific art, but rather create a recognizable personal fighting style for the character. The arm break from the first clip can be found in many arts, but realistically that particular application is a very low-percentage move in a real fight. The flippy, spinny bits are examples of what is commonly referred to as "tricking" = i.e. acrobatic moves intended primarily for demonstration rather than actual martial application.

3) With regards to "sharpening your senses", the common pop-culture idea of the martial artist with extraordinary senses (for hearing ninjas creeping up from behind or some such) is pretty much a myth. What you _might_ actually learn in the right setting is pattern recognition  - the ability to recognize danger early because you understand the context in which it arises and the cues that indicate something bad is about to go down. I wouldn't count on learning that at most schools, regardless of style, however.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> people don't freeze after punching so one can grab or lock their arms) but you have that in every traditional style.


Again, no.

Some people train poorly. That is not the same as an issue being inherent in a particular style.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> something like this, this is very common in traditional arts and also trained that way when not for showing purposes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got it!
Maybe some boxing could help me cover this disadvantage?


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

nope the styles do so. we did in karate (one of the reasons i left), the guys i watched at the german hapkido championship did and every people in every traditional style youtube videos do. its just common.

yes, boxing would help. did so too.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> nope the styles do so. we did in karate (one of the reasons i left), the guys i watched at the german hapkido championship did and every people in every traditional style youtube videos do. its just common.
> 
> yes, boxing would help. did so too.


There is a proper context for it, otherwise it is a common, poor practice.  It is not inherent in the style as how you fight.  You apparently trained in a school that fell into this trap, or didn't understand the training context in which a slower, more methodical approach to the technique made sense.  Context is important.  It's not simply all the time.

You had this experience, but that is not the same experience that I had.  You claim all traditional systems have this failing.  Speak for yourself, but not for me.  That's not my experience, at least not with the more knowledgeable instructors that I have had.

Maybe you had poor instructors.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> nope the styles do so. we did in karate (one of the reasons i left), the guys i watched at the german hapkido championship did and every people in every traditional style youtube videos do. its just common.
> 
> yes, boxing would help. did so too.



I'll definitely go with boxing, escrima and something like hapkido, wing chun or (japanese) jiujutsu. I'd also like to try ninjutsu, but I'd have to check if it's well tought. 
What do you suggest in order to understand if a master is actually skilled?
Also, what do you think about silat? Does anyone know something about it?
Thanks


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

my school was in worlds biggest karate federation and we also did training/seminars with other schools.
just search for straight punch defense on youtube and you'll see what i am talking about. one of the hapkido guys at the championships didn't even know what to do when his partner accidently made the punch with the wrong arm, i mean, common. in boxing one would had both forearms before the face and it wouldn'`t even matter, which of the opponents arm makes the straight punch.

same here:





it IS common, accept it.


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## MAfreak (Mar 14, 2016)

or here:


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## Flying Crane (Mar 14, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> my school was in worlds biggest karate federation and we also did training/seminars with other schools.
> just search for straight punch defense on youtube and you'll see what i am talking about. one of the hapkido guys at the championships didn't even know what to do when his partner accidently made the punch with the wrong arm, i mean, common. in boxing one would had both forearms before the face and it wouldn'`t even matter, which of the opponents arm makes the straight punch.
> 
> same here:
> ...


Speak for yourself.  There is context involved.  You may not understand it.  But that's your experience, not mine.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 14, 2016)

Late to the party, but for what you're looking for, either capoeira or just learn parkour and combine it with your TKD. Easiest way to make yourself flashy.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 14, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Late to the party, but for what you're looking for, either capoeira or just learn parkour and combine it with your TKD. Easiest way to make yourself flashy.



Nobody's ever late here! I think I'm going to start it in some months, so I have plenty of time to consider all the alternatives!
Parkour is something I'm considering, but it's not a martial art, so I don't feel I have to talk about it here!
I'm more interested in the "grappling" part (armlocks etc.)


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## Langenschwert (Mar 14, 2016)

As a TKD guy, you're first and foremost a striker, and I'll assume you specialize in kicks. So here's what I would recommend, in no particular order:

Boxing: you'll learn to punch very, very well. Obviously, a very useful skill. It's also super fun.

Wrestling/Judo/BJJ: whoever is the better grappler in a fight will determine where the fight takes place. It is VERY hard for a pure striker to keep a wrestler at bay. Not impossible (Hello Holly Holm), but it's really hard. If you want to fight on your feet, you have to be able to stay there. The only way you'll learn to stay on your feet is by training a grappling art with resistance. Otherwise, you're going to fly, and you won't like the landing. And should you ever end up on the ground, you should know what to do there. Otherwise, you're toast.

Weapons: If anyone tells you "take this unarmed form, and add a weapon, and it's good", they are talking nonsense at best and lying at worst. Weapons require dedicated study, just like anything else. Your best bets in most cities are HEMA, FMA and a Koryu Bujutsu if you can find it. Also, knife defence is ridiculously hard. An aggressive, athletic person with a knife will destroy most unarmed black belts in short order. Plus, there is nothing more fun than learning how to use a sword. It's even more fun than groundfighting, which is so much fun it should be illegal. 

Good luck with your search.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 14, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> Nobody's ever late here! I think I'm going to start it in some months, so I have plenty of time to consider all the alternatives!
> Parkour is something I'm considering, but it's not a martial art, so I don't feel I have to talk about it here!
> I'm more interested in the "grappling" part (armlocks etc.)


In that case, just choose a grappling art and go with it. I'm partial to judo, but in reality if it's a good teacher you'll learn what you want. Only exception could be bjj-a lot of places (that I've been to) will focus almost purely on ground grappling, so you wont really learn standing grappling which is what I'm guessing you want.


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## MAfreak (Mar 15, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> But that's your experience, not mine.



seeing it everywhere makes it very much objective, not just "my experience". but it's okay. also often i see that people don't want to hear, that what they did and believed in for many years might have major weaknesses.

my last post on this topic here, another example:





don't try with someone like him:





ok, now lets end the off topic since most people wouldn't even believe it when getting beaten up trying their "punch defense".


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## drop bear (Mar 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> It is influenced by ritual. But is also trained alive.  It is kind of a weird blend.



I trained with these guys. It was quite fun.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 15, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> seeing it everywhere makes it very much objective, not just "my experience". but it's okay. also often i see that people don't want to hear, that what they did and believed in for many years might have major weaknesses.
> 
> my last post on this topic here, another example:
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear you had a less-than-optimal experience in karate.  There a are a lot of schools that give poor instruction, that much is true.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I trained with these guys. It was quite fun.


Yeah, I don't know how anyone can mistake that for a dance.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 15, 2016)

My first advice is stay with TKD for a while.  You will (and need to) develop skills such as speed and strength, that will allow you to do things that don't seem possible now, in TKD and other arts you might choose.

Then look for a grappling school.  You mentioned Aikido.  You might also look for anyone, including your current TKD teacher who may have studied enough Hapkido to be belted and be able to teach.  Judo and Jujitsu would also probably teach the things that seem to interest you.

You mentioned improving your senses.  That can be done, but never over night.  It takes most people a lot of time, and use of gi, which not all teachers believe in, so don't teach.  In fact, gi is hard to teach anyway.  Breathing exercises as well as belief, and much practice are needed for gi.  Even then you may never develop the senses popularized in movies and TV.

Consider, are you willing to walk around blind for a year?  People who become blind don't get better with their other senses in one week of intense training.  How about muscle memory, necessary for many techniques, do you think you will learn that in a month?  You would be very unique if you could for all techniques you are taught, from punching, kicking or grappling.

Along with senses and muscle memory, you need to develop an almost instinctive reaction to any attack, with some defense you have learned, from several you will probably have learned.  If you have to think about what defense to use, you are almost assuredly already to late in your defense.

If all the above seems like a long time journey, it will be.  Don't try to cut corners.  Go back up and read the advice from Buka again.  He is right on.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 15, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> My first advice is stay with TKD for a while.  You will (and need to) develop skills such as speed and strength, that will allow you to do things that don't seem possible now, in TKD and other arts you might choose.
> 
> Then look for a grappling school.  You mentioned Aikido.  You might also look for anyone, including your current TKD teacher who may have studied enough Hapkido to be belted and be able to teach.  Judo and Jujitsu would also probably teach the things that seem to interest you.
> 
> ...



All you've said is absolutely right.
I feel I'm ready to start a new martial art because I feel I waste a lot of time playing videogames, surfing the internet or just staying on facebook. That's something you can do for 1-2 hours a day at most.
I think that, by starting a new challenging activity, I can stop wasting so much my time in things that, even being entertaining, don't help me grow up as a person.
I'll definitely not leave taekwondo, at least as long as I'll feel motivated. And of course, I need to develop speed and reflexes, since I'm not that good at the moment.

About the "senses" part, i don't know anything about gi. I'll do some research about it as well.
I'm sure it will take a lot of time, but self-improvement is what I like the most.
It may seem sad, and maybe it actually is; but, since I don't believe in anything greater than us, I think that all we can and must do is try to improve, both physically and mentally, for us and for the people we care about. When I'll be 80, I'd like to think that I seized the opportunity to learn what I liked, back when I could.

P.S.: about the whole "walking around blind part", is it a metaphor, isn't it?  I'm sure there are better ways to improve senses than getting hit by a car ahahahah

EDIT: I didn't find anything about gi. What are you talking about?
2nd Edit: It's the way Korean people spell ki, isn't it?


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## MAfreak (Mar 15, 2016)

i think he means qi, those mysterious energy chinese tradition tells about. i'd recommend concentration exercises, like in meditation and not to always listen to loud music.


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## JowGaWolf (Mar 15, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> 00:15, I think it's a joint breaking technique. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work against a person willing to kill you in real life, but I took this example in order to show the kind of "self-defense thing" I'm interested on


 That technique actually works.  That same technique is in Jow Ga but is thrown different than what you see in that clip.  My guess is that the hand position in the clip is different because they didn't want to make the mistake and actually break the arm. In other words it doesn't take much to break the arm that way so playing around with it isn't recommended.

I wouldn't have any problem doing that technique if the opportunity presented itself.  It's a very practical technique but it only works against certain punches while you are in a specific position.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> That technique actually works.  That same technique is in Jow Ga but is thrown different than what you see in that clip.  My guess is that the hand position in the clip is different because they didn't want to make the mistake and actually break the arm. In other words it doesn't take much to break the arm that way so playing around with it isn't recommended.
> 
> I wouldn't have any problem doing that technique if the opportunity presented itself.  It's a very practical technique but it only works against certain punches while you are in a specific position.


You can position yourself so that a grab is an over-reach, and as for punches, you watch your opponent. If they fail at repositioning right away, they will probably be open for a break, upon you getting out of the way, which means, side step, and slap at the elbow, he left hanging.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 15, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> That technique actually works.  That same technique is in Jow Ga but is thrown different than what you see in that clip.  My guess is that the hand position in the clip is different because they didn't want to make the mistake and actually break the arm. In other words it doesn't take much to break the arm that way so playing around with it isn't recommended.
> 
> I wouldn't have any problem doing that technique if the opportunity presented itself.  It's a very practical technique but it only works against certain punches while you are in a specific position.



I meant it couldn't actually work against a gun.
Basically everyone is saying that this technique is pretty common among martial arts such as jiujutsu, kung fu, hapkido etc., if I'm not mistaken


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 15, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> I meant it couldn't actually work against a gun.
> Basically everyone is saying that this technique is pretty common among martial arts such as jiujutsu, kung fu, hapkido etc., if I'm not mistaken


 Actually lots of things work on a gun at close quarters. As long as you can keep it pointed away from you, you are golden.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 15, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Actually lots of things work on a gun at close quarters. As long as you can keep it pointed away from you, you are golden.



Well, I think/hope I'll be lucky enough not to see a gun in my life! 
A wing chun master I know used to tell his "class" that, if someone's pointing a gun, it's VERY hard to move it away without being shot in the process. As it's very difficult to disarm a man with a knife, especially if he's scary/drugged/drunk.


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## drop bear (Mar 15, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, I don't know how anyone can mistake that for a dance.



Traditionally when the cops came the music would change and it would become a samba de roda.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 15, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> ...
> 
> P.S.: about the whole "walking around blind part", is it a metaphor, isn't it?  I'm sure there are better ways to improve senses than getting hit by a car ahahahah
> 
> ...



What I was trying to say was that most people cannot improve their senses sensitivity in a short time.  And it will usually require some practice with some deprivation of the some senses in order to heighten others.

Gi is how the Koreans pronounce the existence and ability to use an inner force.  Many people don't believe in it.  They will never know how to use it.  I consider that their loss, not mine.  MAfreak was correct that qi is another way to write and pronounce it, as is ki.  It mostly depends on the transliteration used to go from Korean or Chinese to English.  As I said, gi is the way I have heard it pronounced in Korean.  Some may have heard it pronounced differently, or more likely only thought they did.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 15, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> seeing it everywhere makes it very much objective, not just "my experience". but it's okay. *also often i see that people don't want to hear, that what they did and believed in for many years might have major weaknesses*.
> ...



The above is correct.  It is also correct that you not being able to make a technique work doesn't mean no one else can.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 15, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> You can position yourself so that a grab is an over-reach, and as for punches, you watch your opponent. If they fail at repositioning right away, they will probably be open for a break, upon you getting out of the way, which means, side step, and slap at the elbow, he left hanging.



In the Hapkido I learned we often anticipated a nearly certain reaction of the attacker and made that part of our defensive technique, using his actions/reactions against him.


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## drop bear (Mar 15, 2016)

Ok.  Sexy arm scissor breaks. There are two ways I can actually get this sort of thing on.

Either they are doing that irritating move where they hang an arm in your face. And I just start scissor punching them until they stop.

Or I have done can arm drag to two on one control.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 15, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Traditionally when the cops came the music would change and it would become a samba de roda.


Yeah...maybe.

I think there was simply no hiding the martial intent of capoeira, even if it could have a playful aspect.  The cops knew exactly what was up, they knew what capoeira was.  Changing the music didn't hide that.  Changing it to a samba, well now it's no longer capoeira, it's samba.

African cultures tended to bring music and rhythm into many aspects of life, and there is no reason that wouldn't hold true for fight training as well.  The notion that capoeira was disguised successfully as a dance is, I'm afraid, a myth.


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## JowGaWolf (Mar 15, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> I meant it couldn't actually work against a gun.
> Basically everyone is saying that this technique is pretty common among martial arts such as jiujutsu, kung fu, hapkido etc., if I'm not mistaken


lol.. just from having experience of having someone point a gun at me twice.  Distance is everything, and a reality for me was that I wasn't going to try too many techniques other than thinking and trying to deescalate the situation.  Trying to break the arm of that person wasn't the first thought.  I spent more time trying to slowly position myself so I could be in a better position to react if I thought the trigger would be pulled.   Breaking arms wasn't in the playbook at that time.  From what happened to me and what I've seen, guns aren't usually pulled out within punching range.  They are usually pulled when you are too far to attack them and too close to run away.

The arm break from your clip is most likely to happen when both people are fighting with with their hands.  Most people with guns understand not to let the person they are pointing the gun at to get close like what was in the video clip you posted.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 15, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> The above is correct.  It is also correct that you not being able to make a technique work doesn't mean no one else can.


What is also correct is that there is a time and a place and a context, within training, when it is appropriate to work through a technique in a slow and methodical manner, even to the point of being exaggerated.  And this does not mean that there is any expectation that you would actually fight that way, or that your attacker would attack you in that way.  Context is everything.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 16, 2016)

Do you guys know anything about silat? I've seen some techniques online: sometimes it seems pretty much rude, some others both boring and ineffective.
Among the ones you mentioned, I think I'll gather informations on Wing Chun (the whole trapping part is great!), Akijujutisu, Hapkido and maybe wrestling.


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## JR 137 (Mar 16, 2016)

If you're looking for a martial art that you can train for a long time and be happy, you're going about this the wrong way...

Don't look for an art.  Look for a dojo.  No two teachers of any style, even within the same organization and from the same teacher will teach the same way.

Visit as many schools as you can that fit your schedule and budget.  Look at what they're doing.  Does it make sense to you?  Is the teacher someone you can learn from, regardless of his personal skill level (a great practicioner and great teacher aren't always the same thing)?  Are the students people who you would like to train alongside?

Let's suspend reality and say BJJ is better than Kyokushin karate in every way.  What if the BJJ teacher doesn't manage his class well?  What if the students are a bunch of people who aren't very serious and just going through the motions?  What if the Kyokushin teacher runs the class like clockwork, and the students are hardcore and all working together to improve?

I've seen enough good and bad examples of too many arts to say some are inherently better than others.

The right school will keep you interested.  The right school is a combination of the right teachers and students for your goals.


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## Ledz96 (Mar 16, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> If you're looking for a martial art that you can train for a long time and be happy, you're going about this the wrong way...
> 
> Don't look for an art.  Look for a dojo.  No two teachers of any style, even within the same organization and from the same teacher will teach the same way.
> 
> ...



All you've said is true, but there's a "limitation". I'll try with a metaphor. Let's say I really enjoy rock music (which is true, btw) and I want to play a musical instrument: I'd obviously prefer playing the bass in a band with people I like than playing the guitar with some stupid guys I don't appreciate and maybe I'm not even going to talk to. But I'm definitely not going to play piano in an orchestra, even if all the others musiscians are my good friends.
I'm trying to figure out what martial arts I could like in terms of style: then I think I'll choose among them, mostly depending on the teacher and the class.
Thanks for your advice, anyway. I won't forget that the school is one of the most important things to consider


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## JR 137 (Mar 17, 2016)

Ledz96 said:


> All you've said is true, but there's a "limitation". I'll try with a metaphor. Let's say I really enjoy rock music (which is true, btw) and I want to play a musical instrument: I'd obviously prefer playing the bass in a band with people I like than playing the guitar with some stupid guys I don't appreciate and maybe I'm not even going to talk to. But I'm definitely not going to play piano in an orchestra, even if all the others musiscians are my good friends.
> I'm trying to figure out what martial arts I could like in terms of style: then I think I'll choose among them, mostly depending on the teacher and the class.
> Thanks for your advice, anyway. I won't forget that the school is one of the most important things to consider



I like your analogy.  Everyone's got their own path to follow.  There's just too many threads asking which is the better art IMO.

See what's realistically possible in your area, and narrow it down.  No sense researching modern arnis or savate nor anything else that's not within a reasonable drive.

I'd really like to study Uechi Ryu as I've seen it taught in Okinawa with all the body hardening/conditioning.  The only Uechi Ryu school near me is an hour away, and they don't do anything like I've seen online.


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## JR 137 (Mar 17, 2016)

An art I'd really like to try out is Kajukenbo.  I saw the Fight Quest episode of it, and it looked like everything I think should me in an MA/the physical side of self defense.  There's a local Kajukenbo school here, but it wasn't anything like the show.  Teacher and students make or break a dojo.


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