# Kadochnikov's Systema?



## Average-Russian

I have just started with learning Systema by going to a local teacher, but i also have got some of Kadochnikovs tapes from a friend. 
I got the http://www.kadochnikov.org/books/video/ 
-Film 2. Russian hand-to hand fighting. "Basic exercises and elements.
-Film 3. Russian hand-to-hand fighting. "Grips and release from grips.
-Film 4.Russian hand-to-hand fighting. "Strikes and defense against them.

So now my question is wich other tapes should i buy from maybe other trainers or from Kadochnikov? 

And what do you think about Kadochnikov's Systema? Is it better then Vlad's or Scott Sonnons stuff?


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## SonnyPuzikas

AR- the website you refering to is NOT an official Kadochnikov website. Official website is at http://kadochnikov.tih.ru . The videos you mentioned are by Vadim Starov, with footage of Kadochnikov (for which BTW A.A. Kadochnikov is not getting any compensation). He played mainly admin role in the Center's he is heading these days activities, back when Kadochnikov and his son were involved with it (they are not for a couple of years now). According to many senior Kadochnikov students in Russia Starov is NOT a honorable man and NOT a qualified Kadochnikov system instructor. All that information (and much more negative stuff) you will be able to find on official website's forum and number of other Russian MA forums. 
Beware of Starov and his organization, as well as people representing them in US.
As to whats better... Decision is yours to make what is better for you at this time. Research, try, ask...


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## milosmalic

I have seen most of the movies from that series. Lot of quality things to learn from both father and son Kadochnikov.

Regarding www.kadochnikov.org website, I have negative experience with participaton in their forum. It's not clear to me "who is who" overthere, but something IS fishy about whole situation.

Every source of knowledge is welcome. There is no need to compare schools.

My favourite is RMA (Systema) approach, I have high respect for A.A. curriculum, would like to learn every thing, but would like to perform it "Vlad way".

Other videos I have seen came from Buza, Viun, Combat Sambo soft style, Belov, Ross, Sonnon.. all kind of related stuff. Everything is a suplement to knowledge.


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## Average-Russian

SonnyPuzikas said:
			
		

> AR- the website you refering to is NOT an official Kadochnikov website. Official website is at http://kadochnikov.tih.ru . The videos you mentioned are by Vadim Starov, with footage of Kadochnikov (for which BTW A.A. Kadochnikov is not getting any compensation). He played mainly admin role in the Center's he is heading these days activities, back when Kadochnikov and his son were involved with it (they are not for a couple of years now). According to many senior Kadochnikov students in Russia Starov is NOT a honorable man and NOT a qualified Kadochnikov system instructor. All that information (and much more negative stuff) you will be able to find on official website's forum and number of other Russian MA forums.
> Beware of Starov and his organization, as well as people representing them in US.
> As to whats better... Decision is yours to make what is better for you at this time. Research, try, ask...



Thank you for the information i will indeed be watchfull for people who represent him although i'm not studying Systema in USA but in Holland 

And my instructor is not from Kadochnikovs side.


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## SonnyPuzikas

Mr. Smith... So GOOD to hear from you. You have blamed Vasiliev, myself and number of others for posting porn before... No? I'm sure you have undeniable proof of it?
While an argument could be made that official Kadochnikov forum could be managed better (incoming spam amount is incredible on any forum, as any mod can tell you), it is still an offcial venue for Kadochnikov system, which you and your "master" Starov claim as well. 
You came to few Systema seminars and wanted to become instructor. Once told to train more and not receiving what you wanted right away, you found new route- Starov center in Russia. By accounts of almost all senior Kadochnikov students and both Kadochnikovs, Vadim Starov is not qualified to certify anybody as instructors in Kadochnikov system. Besides- instructor certification in 11 days... Not full days, mind you.
Trying to get Kadochnikov system in a new market is a fine and noble undertaking. Doing it the way you and Starov are- it is "fuflo"... I'll gladly engage you in the discussion on this forum about the facts, which you like so much. Don't start the fight you can't finish... 
Oh- and good luck with the seminar...


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## Greg Smith

Please go to www.kadochnikov.org and click on the Gallery. Once there you will go to Oct 04 Pictures & March 05 Pictures.

There you will find Vadim Starov being involved in the Application of Kadochnikov Sistema. Oh! the Military Uniforms? Well those are Soldiers. What kind of Soldiers? Spets Troops!!! :0)

You do remind of the Locals of a Southeast Country that I was assigned to when I was Incountry. When I tolded them about RATTLESNAKES, they disbelieved me. The could not Fathom that a Viper could have a Rattle at the end of it' tail. These simple natives did not have the benefit of Movies or TV. Not believing it did not make it so!


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## SonnyPuzikas

And? Number of MA schools around the world has at some point or another conducted some training for LE/military personel. Does posting pictures of such is a measure of such schools competency? Not necessary. Vadim teaches in Tver. Tver (not very large city near Moscow) has it's police force, which includes small OMON unit (to which Mr. Smith reffers as spets troops). OMON in Russia is equivalent of SWAT teams here in US, with some OMON teams having combat experience in Chechnya and few other places. Tell me Mr. Smith- is some of the commanders/key officials of Tver police/swat are not involved in business end of Vadim Starov's organization? 
I don't like jumping into muddy situations like the one you have started months ago, but I'll not remain silent when pure lies are being spread by you and your master. On your now unaccessible for outsiders forum (with 20 some registered users- good luck advertising your seminars and business...) you posted Starov seminar announcements with comparing it to Vladimir Vasilievs training events (Summer camp and Summit of the Masters). You pointed out that the cost for Vasiliev 6 day event is very similar to the event with Starov- 11 days. Of those 11 days- 9 are evening hours (to accomodate local attendees during workdays), while Vasiliev events are full 6 days of training with some additional training at nightime. Vasiliev events cost include lodging and meals. You do forget to mention that. Vasiliev events are with 2 or 3 instructors teaching. Not one who is not recognized by his own teacher- A.A. Kadochnikov himself. Vadim Starov on his websites old forum wrote alot of interesting things- maybe I should bring it all to light for the American public, now that contrary to his own statement of him not being interested in presenting his teachings (which he still reffers to as Kadochnikov system) to the public in the US, expressed to me in an e-mail from Starov, him and you are trying to missrepresent Kadochnikov system as reps of said system here in US. Shall we dance?


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## milosmalic

Since the moderators seem to allow advertising, I will add that I like Beyond The Firearm DVD. And of course I will give my best to be on Summit of Masters in August.


P.S.
Now, I have been watching Kadochnikov 08 video last night. If I'm correct there is Mr Starov on the movie... showing something for 5 seconds, but whole movie is featuring son of A.A. and ded himself.


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## mscroggins

I bought a copy of Beyond the Firearm as well.  

Sonny does an excellent job of demonstrating how work with the long gun flows smoothly from the Systema core. Superb. 

I'll try to make the August event as well. Hope to meet you there, milosmalic.


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## Ironman

mscroggins said:
			
		

> I bought a copy of Beyond the Firearm as well.
> 
> Sonny does an excellent job of demonstrating how work with the long gun flows smoothly from the Systema core. Superb.
> 
> I'll try to make the August event as well. Hope to meet you there, milosmalic.


 
i second that, the DVD was very well done.


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## Greg Smith

You guys are a Colossal Joke  I reviewed nearly all of the pages in this section and it is chock full of Vasiliev-Ryabko Systema Ads for your Seminars. I guess you thought I would not do any sort of " DUE DILIGENCE". 

So where do you guys get-off COMPLAINING ABOUT MY AD. 1ST OFF, I am a Newie and did not know about the seminar page. Since I have posted my Ad, I have discovered it. For that error I make no apologies given what you Scroundrels have done in this section. However, in the future, I will place my Advertising in the appropriate place ie The SEMINAR PAGE.

I remember when years ago in the mid 80's , I lived in this apartment and the house in the backyard had this small OBNOXIOUS DOG, that INCESSANTLY YAPPED FOR HOURS ON END. At 1st I was annoyed, then became ANGRY, & finally, I attained Satori and was no longer annoyed, angered. I was totally at peace. Such is now the case with the Vasiliev-Ryabko guys that seek to disrupt my inner-peace. Please sling some more dirt and mud, for you see- IT BOTHERS ME NOT! :0`

LIKE I SAID THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD GUYS IN YOUR OUTFIT, AND I AM GLAD TO HAVE MET THEM.


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## Rich Parsons

Greg Smith said:
			
		

> You guys are a Colossal Joke  I reviewed nearly all of the pages in this section and it is chock full of Vasiliev-Ryabko Systema Ads for your Seminars. I guess you thought I would not do any sort of " DUE DILIGENCE".
> 
> So where do you guys get-off COMPLAINING ABOUT MY AD. 1ST OFF, I am a Newie and did not know about the seminar page. Since I have posted my Ad, I have discovered it. For that error I make no apologies given what you Scroundrels have done in this section. However, in the future, I will place my Advertising in the appropriate place ie The SEMINAR PAGE.
> 
> I remember when years ago in the mid 80's , I lived in this apartment and the house in the backyard had this small OBNOXIOUS DOG, that INCESSANTLY YAPPED FOR HOURS ON END. At 1st I was annoyed, then became ANGRY, & finally, I attained Satori and was no longer annoyed, angered. I was totally at peace. Such is now the case with the Vasiliev-Ryabko guys that seek to disrupt my inner-peace. Please sling some more dirt and mud, for you see- IT BOTHERS ME NOT! :0`
> 
> LIKE I SAID THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD GUYS IN YOUR OUTFIT, AND I AM GLAD TO HAVE MET THEM.



Maybe becuase there were some rules changes, based upon the amount of ADs that were being posted. 

Maybe because those that were posted before the change were left, as they did not violate any rules at the time of posting. 

If there are some that are recent, then you can report them of any violation by using the teh red triangle with the ! in it. This will allow the moderators to see and review the post being report.

Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Assistant Administrator

Just a thought


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## Greg Smith

"*Sergey Kondakov,** Special Direct Action(spetsnaz) Detachment Commander*, About *kadochnikov.* Over *70%* Of The Tver Special Dierect Action Detachient Staff Has A Real Combat Experience. Many Times They Worked In The Hot Spots Of Russia. Many Of It's Soldiers Experienced A *special Training Based* On The Russian Style System. Sergey Kondakov:what Are The Advantages Of The Style? The Russian Style Techniques Helps The Soldiers Of This *special Purpose Detachment* To Conduct Operations To Stop Illegal Drug & Arms Trade, To Fight Against Custom Crimes, And To Provide Personal Security For Custom Officers And Their Relatives, Or Even To Rescue Hostages.

This Fight Style Was Tested In So-caalled Hot Spots And Showed* Its Military Efficiency*, Saving The Lives Of Those Who Mastered It.


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## Greg Smith

1955-1958 He Trained The Best Experts Of Gru In Spiridonv System.


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## frbiu

To all participants of this forum- Best Regards  from Ukraine.
Special Hi to Greg Smith.  We hope you have not forgotten the VIII Traditional International Summer camp 2005 in Crimea. Also the lack of hot water and the girl in a bikini, who frightened you so. We hope that you will tell all about your survival in conditions slightly approaching reality and about your panic flight to a comfortable hotel.

Though other participants of Summer camp from England, France, Italy, Ireland, Poland, Russia have passed all tests adequately  and have received real experience in Russian Martial Art (Kadachnikovs System and Vasilevs System) , which have the same roots, work by the same principles, but  have differences  in the methods of preparation.

For All Participants of this Forum: I think I have understood that you don't want to waste time on trifles and you want to improve yourselves both physically and psychologically. Man differs from animals in that man can make choices. Whether to go on a way of self-perfection or to stop is/her development and gradually degrade.

It can be compared with when a man begins to walk up a twenty-story building. It will take a certain period of time. He will spend a lot of energy and time. When he finally gets to the roof he will see a very good landscape. This is an example of one improving or perfecting himself by finishing a task and enjoying the results. If he jumps off the roof he will have a pleasant flight for a few seconds and then a sudden stop dying in the process. This is the way of a person who has finished perfecting himself.

I as well as you trained in different kinds of fighting arts. When I was 6 years old I went to school and began to train by free struggle. Afterwards I played hockey, rugby, boxing, Jujitsu, judo, karate, and kickboxing. When I met RMA I came to understand that all that I was engaged in were sports and very far from real life. Sports are always that of restriction, i.e. it is a done on a soft surface, there is only one opponent of identical weight. He doesn't strike by knife or stick and he doesn't shoot at you, etc.
There are always doctors and judges present.  If you win one of these competitions, you feel moments of conceit, in this moment, in this place, by these rules.

RMA develops sensitivity in oneself and in the whole World. I began to understand that it isn't necessary "to beat my head against a wall" i.e. it is not necessary to try to change the World. It is simply necessary to relax, to take pleasure in that what you do. I must flow with the stream of life/world not against it. To feel as one and whole with this World.

President of  Federation of Russian Martial Art of Ukraine
Maksimtsov Alexandr

Federation of Russian Martial Art of Ukraine will conduct 

IX Traditional International summer camp in Crimea on coast of the Black sea 

DATES: Since 15-th of July till 21-st of July 2006. 

LOCATION: Seaside of the Black Sea, Chernomorsk town, Tarhankut Peninsula, Crimea, Ukraine (3 hours west of Simferopol). 
Cost of seminar $299.
More  information: 
http://www.frbiu.kiev.ua/summer_camp.php?lan=3

I offer you to think about three fundamentals principles of any movements in combat martial arts:
a) We must be relaxed all the time both physiologically and mentally. 
b) We must move our whole body as one
c) We must move without pauses or stops.
What do you think about it?


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## NYCRonin

My first response is to welcome you to Martial Talk forum.

And I wish more of the various forms of RMA would visit...this s a rather friendly place.

My second response, is this...Mr. Smith seems to have found his certain place here....I would guess you also understand the general feeling about him in this section of the RMA study on the web.

This writter is of the Ryabco/Vasilieve method of preparation...but I  - like many here - would welcome an experienced and trustworthy voice from one with good Kadochnikov background.

This would be good to have here.

If you can be such a person...if you can find the time....I am sure you would find a welcome place in Martial Talk.

And in the Systema community as well...for in a certain understanding, we are..at least....cousins and family.

RMA has so much to offer..in many ways...and a shared conversation of exponents of RMA can only enhance the understanding of all.

In this respect, I would mention that MTalk has certain rules for posting of seminars....I dont know if your post bends these rules...I would suggest you check them out for information purposes.

BUT - a voice of a Kadoshnikov student would be welcome here by all, I feel.

Hopefully, there will be more coming on this site.


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## Robert1234

Hey NYC RONIN;

Catch me here and I will give straight scoop on Russian Style in Kiev/Ukraine.
Bob Leifels


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