# Used aikido today



## theletch1 (Oct 9, 2008)

As aikido-ka I'm sure you've all had the question "Have you ever had to use you aikido?" and most of us have probably given the standard answer of "I use it every day."  This is an anecdote about using the art in every day life that I thought I'd share.

Today, I stopped at the local Sheetz to fuel up.  I went inside, grabbed a Jolt cola (lots of caffeine and sugar) and headed toward the register.  As I stepped up a man came through the door.  He looked angry, tired, dirty and exuded an aura of violence looking for a place to happen.  "Hey," he yells at the cashier "I'm trying to get gas on #1 and the damn thing won't come on."  The cashier tensed, explained that you had to pre-pay.  What followed was an expletive laden diatribe on how crappy his day had been and the gas station was going to be the last straw.  Finally, he stopped talking and walked toward the counter, chin down and fists clenched.  I turned to face him just to keep an eye on a potential threat and noticed the cashier reached for my Jolt to ring me up.  I said "Why don't you go ahead and take care of this fellah?" without looking away from the angry guy.  He glared at me, threw his money at the cashier and stormed out.  The cashier thanked me a few times, shaking.  I smiled and explained "It's usually best to put a fire out while it's still just smoking." and left.  It didn't really occur to me that I had used any of my aikido training in that scenario until I was on the way home, going over the situation in my mind.  I could have stood to the side and watched things happen.  I could have jumped into the fray and met his force (anger and expletives) with force of my own and gotten into a physical fight.  I chose, instead, to meet his push with a blend that was designed to redirect his energy back out the door.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 9, 2008)

Well done sir.:asian:

And....Its a good thing this happened BEFORE you drank the Jolt Cola


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## exile (Oct 9, 2008)

Now _that_ is martial arts thinking in its purest, sharpest form. The purpose is to anticipate the attack and nullify it, right? And that's exactly what you did&#8212;deftly enough, and early enough, that no violence, no attack even occurred, although the situation was loaded with the chances for it to happen. So yes, outstanding application of aikido, Jeff!


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## Sukerkin (Oct 9, 2008)

Nicely done, sir. :tup:


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

i use aiki everyday by making space for respectful people and taking that of those who are rude or unfair,  i have even gone so far as to bash into three people in the last few days, as gently as possible but those three were fairly hard, and with big guys-not that it matters. i just look at them and the last big guy was looking the  away so much, he actually thought that i hadnt done it on purpose- weird..it's like he was apologizing. how weird it that.  -mind you, it's not that he didnt see my girlfriend(who was annoyed-being ahead of me,she was forced to evade) or me..it's just a sneaky way of pretending not to see them to steal their space-dispicable, i find.
sometimes, for people that are too old or too young, i try to at least brush against.   i measure very carefully and change my speed to match the situation.

you know how they say in japanese... 
sode furiau demo tasho no en
meaning-even when just the sleeves brush against each other, there is a little destiny


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## theletch1 (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> i use aiki everyday by making space for respectful people and taking that of those who are rude or unfair,  i have even gone so far as to bash into three people in the last few days, as gently as possible but those three were fairly hard, and with big guys-not that it matters. i just look at them and the last big guy was looking the  away so much, he actually thought that i hadnt done it on purpose- weird..it's like he was apologizing. how weird it that.  -mind you, it's not that he didnt see my girlfriend(who was annoyed-being ahead of me,she was forced to evade) or me..it's just a sneaky way of pretending not to see them to steal their space-dispicable, i find.
> sometimes, for people that are too old or too young, i try to at least brush against.   i measure very carefully and change my speed to match the situation.
> 
> you know how they say in japanese...
> ...


Are you not, by conducting yourself in this manner, meeting force with force and thereby defeating the concept of aiki?


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## zDom (Oct 9, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> As aikido-ka I'm sure you've all had the question "Have you ever had to use you aikido?" and most of us have probably given the standard answer of "I use it every day."  This is an anecdote about using the art in every day life that I thought I'd share. ...



Ahh, the beauty of "-do's" as opposed to just raw -jutsus 

Well done


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

not really.  i don't think the concept of aiki is defeated.  i think the sneaky plans are defeated.  it's really a delicate affair but i try to measure very fairly.  do you suggest yeilding to everyone, because i used to do that for a long time and i now think it's not the best way to go.  you or i have just as much right to be and if people cannot manage space fairly, it will be taken from them with resolution in the name of fairness and conciousness just as they attempt to take in the name of selfishness and illusion. 

i am most happy to meet on equal ground and give up my space for those that are mindful.  i do not intrude first. mind you, the intrusion perse could be seen as a form of love...kind of a messed up form of love- a delicate thing.  sometimes, it's not easy, because i cannot yeild for anyone for superficial reasons.  i may not strike my boss or an authority , but i make a point if i find the action is not correct. on the other hand, i will not yeild even if outnumbered or outgunned by the strong or outsourced by the socalled weak. 

 i do not yeild for unfairness or sneakyness.  believe me i am very forgiving for any real transgressions(even capable of calming the distressed), but this type of thing is the pits.

sometimes, i try a number of times to evade from a distance by switching sides, but if i am followed, i change my strategy and force the subject to yeild.

btw, sorry for not commending you.  sounds like you being passive and using your presence alone is similar to what i mean.  i just was being a little snotty about it  because i feel that everything in life is aiki and all people are constantly using aiki for good and for evil. even just on the level of intention and with looks.

 but could you explain again the actual encounter. did you get close or did the guy just take off after seeing you?  you mentioned a push? .


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## MBuzzy (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> you know how they say in japanese...
> sode furiau demo tasho no en
> meaning-even when just the sleeves brush against each other, there is a little destiny



I find this interesting, being that in Asian Countries, particularly, Japan and Korea "stealing" someone's space is not considered rude or even inconsiderate.  In those countries, they have a completely different sense of personal space.  You may be the only two people on a train and someone from an Asian country would most likely choose to stand or sit near you as opposed to far away, in some cases, very near, even touching.  Bumping, pushing through, etc is not considered rude....with the space constraints that they have, the culture has moved beyond what _most_ other countries consider an American petty sensitivity to personal space.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

might be true in some places, but i think this is another example of the influence that the west has had on the east.  sometimes it may be warranted but often i think it is sad, and those that push are the first to yeild when they meet confrontation.

j


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## arnisador (Oct 9, 2008)

This is smart self-defense to me. Whether you want to call it aikido in particular or not doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned!

Of course, that Jolt stuff'll kill you just as dead...


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 9, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I find this interesting, being that in Asian Countries, particularly, Japan and Korea "stealing" someone's space is not considered rude or even inconsiderate. In those countries, they have a completely different sense of personal space. You may be the only two people on a train and someone from an Asian country would most likely choose to stand or sit near you as opposed to far away, in some cases, very near, even touching. Bumping, pushing through, etc is not considered rude....with the space constraints that they have, the culture has moved beyond what _most_ other countries consider an American petty sensitivity to personal space.


 
Not to take this off post but I find the same thing in China. I like my personal space if I am in the states but for some reason in China or for that matter in a Chinatown in the US I do not care about it as much.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> might be true in some places, but i think this is another example of the influence that the west has had on the east.  sometimes it may be warranted but often i think it is sad, and those that push are the first to yeild when they meet confrontation.
> 
> j



I'm not sure that I follow....we really aren't influencing the personal space issue.  It exists in Korea and Japan because of huge population and limited space.  Americans are the world leaders in personal space....even most Europeans don't have the same concept of personal space as us.

I apologize, not trying to turn this thread into a personal space debate....I just find it interesting that the country who created Aikido has such an opposing culture to our own.

I think that avoiding the confrontation in the first place is a great example of aiki.  Although there comes a point when confrontation is necessary....or force upon you.  At that point, "pushing back" is necessary or meeting force with force, however you choose to phrase it.  

In this example, I think that Jeff's response was dead on.

Personally, I would rather allow some invasion of my personal space, even the occasional bump or push, if it will avoid a conflict or the "opportunity" to use the physical aspect of my martial arts.


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## theletch1 (Oct 9, 2008)

arnisador said:


> This is smart self-defense to me. Whether you want to call it aikido in particular or not doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned!
> 
> * Of course, that Jolt stuff'll kill you just as dead*...


I loved Jolt years ago when it came out in the real glass bottles.  It disappeared from this area for a long, long time.  Now, it comes in huge aluminum cans... bigger than Monster or some of the other energy drinks.  Great stuff.  With all the other crazy stuff I do and have done to my body jolt is the least of my worries. 

If someone is deliberately following you or making a point of bumping into you then I can see a reason for using a good defense.  MOST of the time a situation can be diffused easily by simply assuming that the person who bumped you simply didn't see you or were distracted by other events in their day.  To assume to be judge and executioner for everyone that slights me would seem to take an enormous amount of my energy.


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## theletch1 (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> i use aiki everyday by making space for respectful people and taking that of those who are rude or unfair,  i have even gone so far as to bash into three people in the last few days, as gently as possible but those three were fairly hard, and with big guys-not that it matters. i just look at them and the last big guy was looking the  away so much, he actually thought that i hadnt done it on purpose- weird..it's like he was apologizing. how weird it that.  -mind you, it's not that he didnt see my girlfriend(who was annoyed-being ahead of me,she was forced to evade) or me..it's just a sneaky way of pretending not to see them to steal their space-dispicable, i find.
> sometimes, for people that are too old or too young, i try to at least brush against.   i measure very carefully and change my speed to match the situation.
> 
> you know how they say in japanese...
> ...


I'm curious, with the mind set that you've espoused, how you would have handled this situation.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

i am sorry for asking all the time, but i am not sure that i understood the exact details of what the guy actually did to you.  it would really help to know that.  but generally, such a heaty type of individual would probably have left the scene before i had a chance to take any action.  if he tried to actually push me, i would definately try to evade that.  but i dont know if i would have the strength to shrug it off and not try to push back or insult him to cause him to attack.  in my best moments, i may have said something spiritual or tried to display kindness.  
chances are, while i would be smiling and laughing at his childlishly rude ***, he would just take off. 

it's hard to say.  i would have to know the exact situation.  
over where im at in europe, i find people are rude much of the time- maybe not always dangerous or physical, but there is an abundance of nastyness, which one often has to let slide, but it feels good to communicate a bit sometimes.  -usually i try to be spiritual and set an example.  
what counts the most is action. actions should be taken seriously at some level but there's only so much you can do when someone is just spreading bad vibes and being childish


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## exile (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> i i am not sure that i understood the exact details of what the guy actually did to you.



Ummm.... I thought that Jeff described the events in question pretty clearly, myself. Very very angry guy, displaying menacing behavior toward the service person at the gas station. Jeff intervenes to minimize the chance that the service person will be the target of hostility or violence, by giving up his place 'in line' so this excessively angry, out of control guy is less likely to reach a tipping point into physical violence. End of story... am I missing something here?


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 9, 2008)

Bravo-Zulu, Jeff--Well done.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 9, 2008)

thanks for the explaination exile.  i get it now.  dunno why i didnt clue in right away.  i thought the teller said- 'why dont you take care of this feller!' or something like that- and the mentioning a push kindof threw me off.   but i get it, sometimes, it's best to just give people what they want for the greater good. 

general confusion.  that's why i asked.

seems like a pretty slick action now that i understand.  i would have been proud to have reacted like that-calm and controlled in words and action. 
it's hard to know exactly what kind of energy or messages were flowing between you. i wonder how the guy perceived it,, pretty ambigious.


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## exile (Oct 9, 2008)

kaizasosei said:


> thanks for the explaination exile.  i get it now.  dunno why i didnt clue in right away.  i thought the teller said- 'why dont you take care of this feller!' or something like that- and the mentioning a push kindof threw me off.   but i get it, sometimes, it's best to just give people what they want for the greater good.



No prob, kaizasosei! 



kaizasosei said:


> *seems like a pretty slick action now that i understand. * i would have been proud to have reacted like that-calm and controlled in words and action.
> it's hard to know exactly what kind of energy or messages were flowing between you. i wonder how the guy perceived it,, pretty ambigious.



Exactly my thought. 

And as far as how the guy perceived it... it's hard to know how someone else is thinking, but an act of considerateness and kindness&#8212;which is what Jeff's 'technique' was, really&#8212;is often very effective in taking the wind out of the sails of someone who's in a really, really bad pissed-off mood. They're looking for trouble, they're looking for hostile resistance, and instead... you get out their way and let them get on with their business. Garden-variety aikido, in fact.  I think it it takes them aback... and confuses them, making them rethink their original belligerence. They might not let on, of course&#8212;got to save face, eh?&#8212;but later on, driving home, that chap probably felt a bit embarrassed at how he'd behaved. JMO...


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## theletch1 (Oct 10, 2008)

Exile hit the situation on the nose.  The guy was looking for a place to vent his rage at how his day/week/life had gone.  His body language was screaming violence.  I chose to take his attention off of the cashier (who was looking decidedly uncomfortable) and put it on me by speaking to the cashier while looking at the aggressor.  He got what he was stating he wanted... the pump to work... while not getting what his possible ulterior motive may have demanded... something to vent on.  I simply provided a pressure relief valve for the situation.  It was a win/win.  He got his gas, the cashier got to relax and I only lost a few seconds of my day while gaining a good anecdote to share with you all.

I'm certain most of you have been in this type of situation before and handled it as well or better than I did.  Let's hear your stories, folks.  Maybe discussing them will help you realize that you are a little better at this MA stuff than you feel sometimes.


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## Kreth (Oct 10, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Exile hit the situation on the nose.  The guy was looking for a place to vent his rage at how his day/week/life had gone.  His body language was screaming violence.  I chose to take his attention off of the cashier (who was looking decidedly uncomfortable) and put it on me by speaking to the cashier while looking at the aggressor.  He got what he was stating he wanted... the pump to work... while not getting what his possible ulterior motive may have demanded... something to vent on.  I simply provided a pressure relief valve for the situation.  It was a win/win.  He got his gas, the cashier got to relax and I only lost a few seconds of my day while gaining a good anecdote to share with you all.


Fail. A real man would've beaten angry guy with the cashier. Problem solved.



:uhyeah:


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## theletch1 (Oct 10, 2008)

Kreth said:


> Fail. A real man would've beaten angry guy with the cashier. Problem solved.
> 
> 
> 
> :uhyeah:


:lfao:  Damn! I knew I missed an extra class somewhere along the way.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 10, 2008)

Might come in handy having Kreth around in those type of situations. 



j


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## zDom (Oct 10, 2008)

If only ALL uses went so well 

Here is an old anecdote about the late GM Lee H. Park, well-known as a dangerous grandmaster hapkido practitioner among his peers (folk like Pu Gil Gwan, Dr. He-young Kimm, Bong Yul Shin) in addition to being a grandmaster in TKD and yudo, that has been circulating around our schools for years.

GM Park was among the "old school" Korean masters. When push came to shove, well... let me just tell the story as best as I can remember 


One day, GM Park was out enjoying pizza with his students, some of them who were his black belt students.

A group of (drunk?) rednecks walks over and starts giving him trouble &#8212; racial slurs, taunts "little chink" or "Chinaman" sort of stuff.

Park's black belts stand to their feet to come to his defense.

"No, no," he said. "I will handle this."

He attempted to defuse the situation, to talk the rednecks down ... but finally agreed to step outside to discuss their objections to him.

"Watch step," he said, politely holding the door as he exited the establishment with them.

A few moments later he walked back in and, on the way back to his table, advised the restaurant's manager: "Oh, please call .. ambulance."


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## Sukerkin (Oct 10, 2008)

It is often the case that defusing a potentially (or already actually) violent situation can take a tightrope walk between calm deferrence and projected assurance whilst under threat.

It is a skill in and of itself reading which approach you need.  

I am naturally disposed, after decades of training from my father and from the martial arts, to defer to an aggressor; to attempt to defuse the situation by allowing them to be the 'top dog'.  My ego is not damaged by this.  After all, fighting is the last resort when all other avenues have failed but I am confident that I can give a good account of myself if I need to (or could in my pre-accident days).

However, sometimes this actually makes things worse as the protagonist is enraged by the lack of resistance.  Then you have to be prepared to switch tack and begin to gently 'push back' - by this I don't mean becoming belligerent yourself but rather a projection of that confidence in yourself that your training is meant to instill.

In the end, it is confidence that is the key to it all.  Many people, even martial artists, can confuse themselves into showing this as cockiness or veiled threatening behaviour.  But what it really is is that centering of zanshin and settling of ki to give an air of lack of fear combined with a non-dismissive acknowledgement of the other persons 'prowess'.

Sometimes this can be helped by others around and sometimes hindered.  

I recall very well walking up to a developing confrontation between a very good friend of mine (nice as pie, hard as nails and twice my size) and a couple of thuggy-wanna-be's.  I had intended to find out what was going on and try to wind it down as nicely as I could but my friend did not make it easy when, in response to my arrival, he said something to the effect of "Well, you {expletive deleted} are in for it now!" .  That obviously fired up the antagonists and I had to work extra hard to smooth that out.  I count that as one of my failures tho' as they walked away then but laid in wait for my friend at the end of the night {which was a mistake on their part by the way :lol:}.


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## Kreth (Oct 10, 2008)

I applaud Jeff's actions, it's a good way to deal with the issue. Of course, there's always gonna be those mother****ers that still want to dance. Sucks to be them, right? :idunno:


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## mook jong man (Oct 10, 2008)

Jeff used the highest level of martial arts he redirected the blokes energy with out the bloke even being aware of what had just been done to him .


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## exile (Oct 10, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> Jeff used the highest level of martial arts he redirected the blokes energy with out the bloke even being aware of what had just been done to him .



Exactlyand if that's the essence of _any_ MA, it's Aikido, eh?


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## YinYang (Dec 7, 2008)

Hello Jeff, I see you are still active on Martial Talk.  Are you still active at the school? What rank have you been able to obtain since our absence?

Rebecca and myself just started Judo, see:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70366

Ive also started to study Zen Buddhism and seams like your reaction was one that could be anticipated by a fellow practitioner.  

Hope to see you sometime soon,
Andrew (& Becca)


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