# Hook Punch



## tshadowchaser (Jul 25, 2007)

What is the first defence you teach against a hook punch and why this technique??


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## rutherford (Jul 25, 2007)

Keep your hands up.  

Its of primary importance, and a good guard will stop many of the shots you don't even see coming.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 25, 2007)

Now that is always good advice


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## jks9199 (Jul 25, 2007)

Coupled with evasion, I teach two primary defenses against the hook.  The first is your basic side block (arm extends sideways from the center of the body, forming a near-vertical bar), and the other is an covering elbow beside the head.


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## Garth Barnard (Jul 25, 2007)

In answer to the question; Your hands should be up in a 'Passive Stance' (or 'The Fence' as coined by Geoff Thompson).  
From the Passive Stance we only use one type of cover, that being The Crazy Monkey as devised by Rodney 'Chico' King.
Once the Crazy Monkey is utilised, momentarily, the distance - albeit small - can be closed down using Forward Drive.  It's then just a matter of 'going to town' the prefered target at that given time, with vehemence and conviction.  

The Crazy Monkey is very similar to most peoples startle/flinch response, making it a very natural position to get into involuntary.   The Crazy Monkey also allows for a very easy transition into counter attack.

In my experience blocks, per se, don't and won't work in a physical confrontation.  Even I've put a shin through a baseball bat with ease, so a forearm isn't going to be to much trouble.  As for a block stopping a hook punch - no chance!  A block may parry/deflect a strike, if you're lucky, but it certainly won't stop it.

On the other hand; A defencive manoeuvre that intercepts an arm, say at the bicep, mid swing, may also work, but I would class this technique as an 'interception', rather than a block.

Just my 2p (2c).


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 25, 2007)

I would use a stop-hit to the chin or slip and jab to the groin (if we're in the ring, I'm probably toast...I'm not a boxer).


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## kidswarrior (Jul 25, 2007)

The classic boxer's hook is a very short punch counting on the body to deliver the power (which it does well, when used by a trained boxer ). But my point is, the guy has to be pretty close to use this, which is why I teach first for the student to control the  distance. If the opponent is close enough to hook me, he's too close and I should already be making a preemptive move, kinda like *Em *said. If he throws a long 'hook' (or haymaker), then as *jks *said, a knife hand block or even a cutting block (using my arm on the meat of his upper arm) would be what I would expect students to go to.


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## kempo-vjj (Jul 25, 2007)

I beleive the same. If their to close you may need to cover up. With distance a inner block, or cutting block. In later stages we work the cover, with elbow up covering side of face, and step into the centerline, elbow to assialants face.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm not good at infighting with just fists but you have to find a happy medium between covering up and throwing punches that count more than his .  Sorry if it sounds obvious.  I'd try to get back to my more comfortable range.  On the street, I'd go for the clinch and the ear bite, lol.


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## zDom (Jul 25, 2007)

I was thinking along the same lines as the posters above.

If someone is close enough to hook punch, then I can get a LOT of penetration with my jab or reverse punch 

Not to mention a front or side kick, which could (in addition to making them say "ooomph!") push them back out of hook range.


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## still learning (Jul 25, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> What is the first defence you teach against a hook punch and why this technique??


 
Hello, (first defence )-Awareness...of the sitution...AVOIDANCE...IS SMART.....Running aways is wise too!   ....but if you get into a fight?

Your EGO/Pride....needs some more training to be humble and kind!
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IF NO choice ....off course any type of blocking (with hands/arms)is smart, body weaving, ducking if to the head?  

Hand's/Arms's are always be up to protect your head (boxers stance)!  Elbows tuck in to protect the ribs' (lean away).

Stand back....if possible helps too!  You will need to be aware the hook is coming (most times the hook is quicker).  Breath out!

A hook punch to the kidney ...will often lead to a Knock-out.......be aware of this! 
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The word HOOKER/Hookers ...came from a General Hooker who was sent to Europe and since his soldiers needed women he hired them.  Civil war time.

Later as the General Hooker return to USA....the girls follow/hired in America too.....were later called "Hooker's girls"

My wife's neighbor was a decended of General Hooker.  She past away a few year's ago.

If hit by a HOOK punch or caught with a HOOKER ....either way..it will cost you!

Awareness of the sitution....Avoidance... is better.

by: Hook on fishing  .........Aloha


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## thardey (Jul 25, 2007)

For a long-range hook, or haymaker, "counter jab" or "stop punch". For a short range hook, circle to the side, around your opponent.

I used to box, before getting into Karate, and my first fight was against a guy who liked to hook, rather than cross.

He started with some long range hooks (not a full haymaker), which I easily stopped with a "stop hit" someone mentioned earlier. 

It works like this: A quick jab with your left, while rolling your thumb to the ground will raise your shoulder up and guard your face. Meanwhile, tuck your chin to "hide" behind the wall your shoulder just gave you. This will cover your temple to your shoulder.(It's bad form for karate, but works well against a puncher.) This should hit them hard in the nose, while catching their forearm against your upper shoulder. If you have more time (a haymaker) outside block with your palm forward, then jab from that position, so you don't stop your motion. Be ready to suck your elbow back into your body, though, because you just opened up your ribcage to attack. So don't leave you jab "floating" out there, but bring it back as fast or faster than you sent it out.

When he realized his nose was going to get broken if he kept that up, (in fact, at that point he thought it was already broken) he switched to a "short range" hooking strategy:

Usually he would charge me, get close, then start hitting me one-two with the short, powerful hooks, and his forehead almost buried in my chest. I got clobbered, even while covering up, because with his elbows bent, he could reach around my guard easily, and hit me in the temples, which rattles you, and screws with your balance.

Afterwards I talked to some of the more experienced guys, and then tried it, and it works. The answer they gave me was this:

Do what I did for the long-range hooks, the "stop-jab", or "counter-jab". But if he charges for the short-range hooks, step to the side, like a bullfighter, and try to knock him off balance.

The short-range jabs only work if your opponent is directly in front of you, and since my opponent usually has to charge me to get there, he's committed to a certain "line of attack". If you step off line, you can get on his hip. From there you have a clean shot at his temple. Or even better, now that I know some throws, locks, etc. -- on my opponent's hip is a great place to be!

The problem is that most of us are hard-wired to either stand our ground, or retreat straight back, with is exactly the worst thing to do against a short-range hook. You have to train your body to be able to shift sideways, or back-and-sideways. It's just not a natural movement, especially if you're a big guy like me. I think the FMA stuff works the "triangles" which are great for this sort of thing.


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## TheOriginalName (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey there all....

I'm only a yellow belt - so my experience in MAs is relatively small. 
The other night i learnt what i thought was a great block for the "hay maker".

When you see the punch coming you raise both arms vertical and push forward into the forarm. Contact should be at the same time and with the outerside of your arm. 

The great thing is you are using your forarm in the strongest manner - that is with the depth towards you (short side hitting). This give the largest bending strength (i could bore you with the engineering details of this .....but really you don't need that much sleep). Basically no matter how they contact your arms theirs will break first.

It is probably not an effective block against someone who is well trained in MAs but against that drunk bloke down at the pub it would be great!!

I hope i've done it justice with my explenation - i have to say one of the best feeling blocks i've done. I even used it to block a couple of roundhouse kicks at sparing the other day...... that's how much i love it.

But there are probably others out there with a lot more "smartness" to them.....and yes, my language skill have left me for the day.


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## oddball (Jul 26, 2007)

what I was tuaght was: Hands up, boxing style. when  a hook starts coming in, lean my body towards it, and at the same time, lower my head/tuck my chin down, and "thumb off" the hook. Thumb off is turning the hand so that the palm turns away from face and instead towards the back. This works well enough with gloves, not sure about bare handed.


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## bluemtn (Jul 26, 2007)

I've always used the single arm block (out/ in), and usually go for a reverse punch of some kind.  Just seems natural for me...


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## Mr. E (Jul 27, 2007)

What I do comes down to one of two things.

Let us assume that both of us are right-handed. He throws a right hook with either his right foot stepping forward or staying back.

One option is to step back to my right rear while I lift my arms to cover my perimeter. He really can't reach me due to my adding to the distance, but my arms are out there to deal with any variations he throws at me.

Another option is to step slightly in and move my weak side arm against the inside of his blow. I do not want to deal with his fist itself since it may hold a weapon I have not seen. Instead I go for a blow/block as close to his trunk as I can, nailing his attack without contesting the end result of its power.

From there things get complicated and I can't give a straight answer as to what to do since it all depends on what he does.


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## Cabalcincotiros (Jul 30, 2007)

In boxing, ducking a hook is used as a means of escaping blows and allowing the defender to remain in range for a counterattack. It is accomplished by dropping the body forward under swings & hooks (hands or feet) thrown at the head. It is executed primarily from the waist. Protect you head at all times with your hands. Sidestepping may be used in conjunction with the duck as the two go hand in hand and may be refferred to as the "drop shift". It is used to gain either the outside or inside guard position and is, therefore, a very useful technique in in-fighting or grappling. If you have access to Eskrima/Arnis de Mano training, then I suggest you look into this for more on sidestepping technique or seek some training in Boxing to become familiar with defense against the hook punch. Western boxing and Eskrima are great supplements to any training in self defense.
Best regards,
Cabalcincotiros


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## Em MacIntosh (Aug 1, 2007)

Cabalcincotiros said:


> In boxing, ducking a hook is used as a means of escaping blows and allowing the defender to remain in range for a counterattack. It is accomplished by dropping the body forward under swings & hooks (hands or feet) thrown at the head. It is executed primarily from the waist. Protect you head at all times with your hands. Sidestepping may be used in conjunction with the duck as the two go hand in hand and may be refferred to as the "drop shift". It is used to gain either the outside or inside guard position and is, therefore, a very useful technique in in-fighting or grappling. If you have access to Eskrima/Arnis de Mano training, then I suggest you look into this for more on sidestepping technique or seek some training in Boxing to become familiar with defense against the hook punch. Western boxing and Eskrima are great supplements to any training in self defense.
> Best regards,
> Cabalcincotiros


 
Slip in a jab to the groin and this is what I meant by a "slip".


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## Odin (Aug 1, 2007)

a streetfighters hook?....i would simply guard with my left hand and take a step forward, he should then land with his forearm rather then his first ( keep your guard up incase you have the distance wrong ) and then i would hit him..possiably an uppercut since he would be quite close.


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## Balrog (Aug 2, 2007)

Grandmaster's Rule Number One:  Don't block with your face.  :ultracool

Guard up.  If the guard is not up, the hook will probably land.  Everything starts from there.


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## King (Aug 3, 2007)

Heh, I very much enjoyed reading this thread. I'm a pretty big fan of hooks myself. I've noticed the weakness of hooks is range and angle. Plus throwing them leaves you wide open -- so boxers would set it up with jabs and crosses. The obvious strategy would be to keep moving so you never eat a good one; circle away from the dominant/power arm. Doing so will never give them the right angle to throw a proper hook. This strategy isn't 100% reliable because they'll still try to stun you with jabs and crosses.

I also agree that a good easy counter for hooks is what Odin touched on: upper cuts. Upper cut counters are fast and will provide you with the needed shoulder protection incase the hook follow through (I'm talking about a western upper cut which is different from the long arm muay thai one). Uppercuts doesn't have the same umph as a hook though, so finish them off with your own hooks/boot to the face.

Then there is the riskier and explosive counter also called the duck-under counter which Cabalcincotiros explained. Anyway to summarize the thread: keep your hands up, keep moving or run away. All perfectly sound strategy against a hook.


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## tntma12 (Aug 4, 2007)

My favorite technique to use against a hook is an aikido technique called "Shiho Nage" or the four directions throw.


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## blackxpress (Aug 4, 2007)

The first one we learn goes like this.  Assume the attacker throws a right hook.  Step back with your right leg and simulateously throw a knife hand to the crook of his elbow.  With your right hand, throw a palm strike to the face and then reach around with the same hand, grab him by the back of the neck, bend him forward and throw a right knee strike to the solar plexus.  Then give him a shove and get out of there.


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## Jimi (Aug 7, 2007)

For me it would depend on which hook, lead or rear. As well as orthodox or southpaw. Some people have already mentioned the haymaker which is usualy the rear hand but it's not to insist this is always the case. The haymaker from the rear hand usualy sends out a telegraph, literaly you can discypher morris code while it's on its way and figure to watch out for the big rear hand. LOL. If I am dealing with a rear hook, not someone makin hay I would hope to shoulder roll away from it to cover my chin and mandible of my jaw while trying to take his lead leg with my lead leg round kick to the inner thigh ( If in mirror image to him I take the outer thigh or knee). If dealing with a lead hook and granted I was not quick enough to slip out under it and tag his lead leg as mentioned before, I would elbow cover my ear and jaw line and jab straight in probably followed by stepping into a cross or clinch. One thing I would not do is be too habitual about stepping to the outside of his lead hand trying to exclusively get away from his power hand as I could walk right into a lead hook itself or get caught by a low line lead leg keeping me from stepping out from inline with the rear hand or foot (Either one is like my opponent saying, stay infront of my cross etc...). When I was younger in the ABF I got suckered more than once by someone shoulder faking a cross and/or stepping out to thier lead getting me to try and avoid the power rear cross/hook/haymaker and I just stepped right into a slick lead hook to the head. That was my mistake and not to preach to anyone, just sharing. As for body hooks, That's another bag O'tricks. PEACE JIMI


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## whitetiger2001 (Sep 9, 2007)

I raise my arm and drive out into the underside of the forarm with the outside edge of my arm or hand.  The underside of the forearm is soft and has plenty of nerves which are easily affected and the hand goes numb.  I couple that with a ball kick to the closest shin to weaken his stance.  Anyone who's ever whacked their shin on a low table knows how much that hurts.  From there a quick counter is needed and depends on the target availible, a knuckle punch into the solar plexus can be good if all I want to do is end the encounter with minimum damage but their arm makes a nice path to follow for a palm to the cheek or a willow palm to the ear.


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## tempus (Sep 10, 2007)

I know from basic boxing stuff always have your hands up.  In NGA we blend in when a punch is being thrown. So if it was a right round house we would blend in to the attackers left and do whatever technique.  If I blend in to the punch by accident I usually end up slamming into the attckers bicep and not taking the full impact of the blow.

For a hook that would have to be in close, we really practice that if the attacker starts getting that close we should premptivly strike with a kick or such to keep them away and\or prepare for counter attacker or follow attack or make a run for it depending on the situation or what not. 

If they person does get in that close I could probably shorten my blend and I would have to be quick.  Or block and strike or make sure my hands are up.  This question was good because when I get to my next class I am going to have to experiment with this attack within the confinds of the art I study to see what happens.  Looks like I will get to be the throw around dummy once again for another of my what if questions


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## bmcgonag (Sep 29, 2007)

I guess it would depend on the circumstance, ring or street.  I'm a street fighter though trained in TMA, I used it for 10 years as a cop, so I fight "dirty".  If you are close enough for a tight, well-trained, hook, then you were close enough for a knee, kick to the groin, a front leg sweep, or a full on tackle long before that.

If in the ring, stay outside, throw my hook first, keep my hands up in a guard position, hard to say til you are there.  My position at the time it's thrown will have a lot to do with whether I counter strike, duck, block, or get knocked flat out.

Best, 

Brian


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## treva (Sep 30, 2007)

The best block for a hook is the wing block. Imagine brushing your hand through the hair on the side of your head with your hand ending covering your ear. Your elbow will be pointing forward towards the person throwing the hook. You'l end up eating the hook on your shoulder.

I like the wingblock because it doesn't depend on your agility/coordination and how well you can time the punch to parry their arm, or hit the underside of their arm or whatever. It isn't fancy - it's very easy, you just get your arm up from guard and cover your ear.


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## thardey (Oct 2, 2007)

bmcgonag said:


> I guess it would depend on the circumstance, ring or street.  I'm a street fighter though trained in TMA, I used it for 10 years as a cop, so I fight "dirty".  If you are close enough for a tight, well-trained, hook, then you were close enough for a knee, kick to the groin, a front leg sweep, or a full on tackle long before that.
> 
> If in the ring, *stay outside, throw my hook first*, keep my hands up in a guard position, hard to say til you are there.  My position at the time it's thrown will have a lot to do with whether I counter strike, duck, block, or get knocked flat out.
> 
> ...



Good advice -- in boxing situations, it's always better to be aggressive.


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