# bruce vs. john



## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 14, 2003)

who was better bruce lee or john lacoste?
i'm writting this because some people feel bruce is the end all be all of ma. considering the number of escrimadors in so. cal. at that time i feel there would be a good arguement that bruce might not have even been the best fighter in california. keep in mind many of the escrimadors fought to the death.

p.s. let the raging proceed.


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## James Kovacich (Aug 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sercuerdasfigther _
> *who was better bruce lee or john lacoste?
> i'm writting this because some people feel bruce is the end all be all of ma. considering the number of escrimadors in so. cal. at that time i feel there would be a good arguement that bruce might not have even been the best fighter in california. keep in mind many of the escrimadors fought to the death.
> 
> p.s. let the raging proceed. *



That would be a good question for Dan Inosanto to answer.

:asian:


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 19, 2003)

anyone else have any thoughts?


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## James Kovacich (Aug 19, 2003)

Are we talking empty hands or with weapons. I know Dan Inosanto has said that Bruce was a natural with Escrima sticks. But he used them his own way.

But if the topic is with weapons then I would think that it should include all martial art weapons. 

:asian:


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 20, 2003)

eihther way, fighting is fighting.


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## Kroy (Oct 2, 2003)

Who has Bruce Lee actually fought? And is there any video documentation? I'm not talking about his training clips, real fighting.


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## James Kovacich (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Who has Bruce Lee actually fought? And is there any video documentation? I'm not talking about his training clips, real fighting. *



Does ANYBODY have any "video documentation" of themselves in a real fight?  

All we have is people who new him. Heres the word from someone who new Bruce well!

http://www.chusaulei.com/martial/articles/articles_brucelee1.html

Enjoy, its a long one but its more than the gossip that we hear from most.

:asian:


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## Kroy (Oct 2, 2003)

Thanks for the info Akja:asian:


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## James Kovacich (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Thanks for the info Akja:asian: *



:asian:


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## MA-Caver (Oct 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Who has Bruce Lee actually fought? And is there any video documentation? I'm not talking about his training clips, real fighting. *



I got this off a "Shrine To Bruce Lee" site: 
These are a few of the fights that Bruce participated in the ring and out. 
1958: vs. Gary Elms in a tournament. (Won) 
1958 or 1959: Against Chung on a rooftop in Hong Kong. (Won in 2nd Round) 
1960 - Seattle: Bruce backfisted a guy and busted his nose after Bruce saw him harrassing a Chinese Girl. Bruce was taking a walk. This fight was witnessed by James DeMile. 
1960 or 1961: vs. Uechi. (Won in 10 seconds) 
Summer 1963 - Hong Kong:  Bruce snapped a low kick to a punk's shin after the punk and his friend harrassed him during an evening stroll. 

<snip> Bruce remains undefeated throughout his life, except for a lost fight when he was 13 years old (this prompted Bruce to begin taking Martial Arts lessons). People jealous of Bruce, or people just thinking they could beat him, would frequently approach Bruce, tap their foot on the ground (this symbolizes a challenge), and they would begin to fight. Once during the filming of Enter the Dragon , an extra approached Bruce, tapped his foot on the ground, and they began to fight. The extra had some real skill, but instead of trying to beat Bruce, he was really trying to hurt him. When Bruce realized this, he began to unleash his lightning quick speed and powerful moves; he smashed the guy right against the wall. Bruce later said that he had never kicked a guy so hard before. He really beat the guy up. But what was unusual, after the fight was over, Bruce told the extra to get back to his spot and act. He never fired him. 

respectfully submitted :asian:


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## Cthulhu (Oct 7, 2003)

What's better, apple or oranges? 

Cthulhu


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## Kroy (Oct 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MACaver _
> * Bruce remains undefeated throughout his life, except for a lost fight when he was 13 years old (this prompted Bruce to begin taking Martial Arts lessons).  *



 Even though I think that Bruce Lee is one of the greatest things to ever happen the martial arts thats hard to believe. I think as legends grow, so do the stories.


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## Cthulhu (Oct 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Even though I think that Bruce Lee is one of the greatest things to ever happen the martial arts thats hard to believe. I think as legends grow, so do the stories. *



It's not that hard to believe if you are aware that Bruce Lee was involved in relatively few fights in his lifetime.  Also, he never fought professionally.   

Cthulhu


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## Mormegil (Oct 7, 2003)

Were there Professional Fight leagues at the time besides boxing?  Would those have been Karate tournaments?


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## MA-Caver (Oct 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Even though I think that Bruce Lee is one of the greatest things to ever happen the martial arts thats hard to believe. I think as legends grow, so do the stories. *



Ok I'll buy that because people do want their idols/heroes to be larger than life. But can you name any other martial artist who will be thought of first when asking non-MAs to name a famous martial artist.  
Bruce helped personfify MA and helped bring it to awareness. Others like Norris, Carradine, Segal, Van Damme, Chan, Li, Yung Fat, etc, etc, carried the exposure of different styles and forms for the public to choose from. MA greats like Parker and Joon Ree helped with the forming of formal schools. 
Think about it, nobody took MA seriously until Lee. You watch any Chinese MA film (pre-lee..and even Post Lee) and you'll see nobody is hitting anybody... looks like a funky kind of dance. 
With Lee, you saw a fist hit, a foot get buried in the gut/groin. And folks were like holy crap! That's gotta hurt!

Ok Lee isn't the greatest Martial Artist of alllll time. But he's up there in the top ten/five.


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## James Kovacich (Oct 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sercuerdasfigther _
> *who was better bruce lee or john lacoste?
> i'm writting this because some people feel bruce is the end all be all of ma. considering the number of escrimadors in so. cal. at that time i feel there would be a good arguement that bruce might not have even been the best fighter in california. keep in mind many of the escrimadors fought to the death.
> 
> p.s. let the raging proceed. *



No disrespect to John Lacoste in the least bit, (R.I.P.),  but unlike John, Bruce Lee was not "Brutally Murdered."


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## sercuerdasfigther (Oct 14, 2003)

brutally murder. he was shot in the back while walking out the door.


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## James Kovacich (Oct 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sercuerdasfigther _
> *brutally murder. he was shot in the back while walking out the door. *



I did not know him. Just know that his bio (in relation to Dans training) is in Dans book and it says that he was brutally murdered.


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## NYCRonin (Oct 21, 2003)

Apples and oranges...I agree.

The thing about 'fighting' and who is/was the 'best' -
After a person has had to fight a number of times (non-contest)
you realize that such acolades are, at best, unimportant.

There is only the conflict and survival and every persons trial is different and unique - an individual experience, unlike any other.
It doest matter much, except as a subject for discussion by those who were not involved.


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## James Kovacich (Oct 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by NYCRonin _
> *Apples and oranges...I agree.
> 
> The thing about 'fighting' and who is/was the 'best' -
> ...



Well said.

:asian:


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