# Meaning of TSD master belt



## IcemanSK (Feb 19, 2008)

As a TKD guy, I find the TSD master belts really interesting. Can someone describe the significance of the midnight blue & the red stripe? I've seen one red stripe in the middle & also blue in the middle & one red stripe on each side. Can someone tell me what each part of each belt represents?

Thanks!


----------



## JWLuiza (Feb 19, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> As a TKD guy, I find the TSD master belts really interesting. Can someone describe the significance of the midnight blue & the red stripe? I've seen one red stripe in the middle & also blue in the middle & one red stripe on each side. Can someone tell me what each part of each belt represents?
> 
> Thanks!


 
There are some other threads re: Midnight blue out there.  Basically, a differentiatior of TSD from other systems.  Philosophically, Black is an endpoint, while Midnight Blue cuold be forever darkened.  The learning never ends.  

The red has several distinctions, mainly being the last belt before the chodan, so sometimes the red showing through would be an indicator of a long time training.  There are probably other explanations as well.  A good TSD resource for this info is www.warrior-scholar.com/smf  take a look!

The double red stripe is used by some GMs at higher level, but is a newer occurence and is NOT found in the Moo Duk Kwan, the originators of the Master's belt.


----------



## JWLuiza (Feb 20, 2008)

Sorry Iceman,

It looks like I am a thread killer.


----------



## Miles (Feb 20, 2008)

I'll try to revive it-noticed several Tang Soo Doin at Master Penfil's who did not wear the master belt though they are 4th dan or above.  Is this an organizational or personal decision?

Miles


----------



## Makalakumu (Feb 20, 2008)

For my teacher and his students, it's a personal decision.  Basically, we choose to make a clean split with that tradition AND to reject the overly ubiquitous title master.


----------



## IcemanSK (Feb 21, 2008)

The reason I asked was I saw an ad for "new master belts" the had the red stripe through the center & "master belts" with a red stripe on either side w/ midnight blue or black in the middle. I figured that if it were advertised as such from a company that doesn't do TSD belts exclusively, there must have a degree of universality to the meaning.

This was not a cho dan or 1st gup rank. It was referred to as a master's belt.


----------



## fuzbuckle (Feb 25, 2008)

I currently train in Tang Soo Do under the International Tang Soo Do Federation and all of the masters in the ITF that I have met, wear the Midnight Blue Belt with a single red stripe through the middle.  I have seen pics of Choong Jae Nim C.S. Kim who is president and founder of the ITF wearing the Midnight Blue Belt with two red stripes.  This is the belt of a Grand Master, generally considered at 8th Dan (though I have been told that Choong Jae Nim does not like to be called grand maseter out of respect for his teacher, Grand Master Song Ki Kim, who is still alive and has also been photographed wearing the GM's Belt).  You will also see this belt worn by Grand Master Ho Sik Pak (8th Dan) in Vol 2 of his Tang Soo Do Manual.  I can list the meaning that I have found on the Midnight Blue portion of the belt but only speculate on the red stripe.  The midnight blue belt signifies Autumn, Maturity, Water and it's animal is the turtle.  In autumn the leaves fall and are gathered to the ground and nurture the soil just as Tang So Do is passed down.  Water is the strongest element as it rust's metal, rots wood, quenches fire.  It can take any shape or form, is powerful yet peaceful, and is necessary for all life. The turtle is long lived, moves purposefuly, will retreat if threatened but can fight fiercly if necessary.  Blue also represents the Uhm from the Korean Uhm Yang.  This is just speculatin on my part but I would wager that the Red Stripe in the Master's belt signifies the eastern philosophy that in the Uhm, Yang is always present and that it is the balance of both forces that represent wholeness and harmony. Therefore, the red stripe signifies wholeness and balance or Pyang Ahn (Well Balanced, Calm, Peaceful, Safe, Confident and Comfortable). I will make it a point to ask my Sa Bom Nim and even Choong Jae Nim the next time I see him and find out if my speculation is correct.  Hope this answers part of your question.


----------



## MBuzzy (Feb 25, 2008)

I would have to do some more research on the meaning of the belt, but I can tell you that Kwan Jang Nim H.C. Hwang of the US SBD Federation wears the belt with the single stripe.  As far as I know, the older Korean masters also wear a belt with a single stripe down the middle.  The two stripes must be an organization specific thing added after the TSD/SBD splits.


----------



## JWLuiza (Feb 25, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I would have to do some more research on the meaning of the belt, but I can tell you that Kwan Jang Nim H.C. Hwang of the US SBD Federation wears the belt with the single stripe. As far as I know, the older Korean masters also wear a belt with a single stripe down the middle. The two stripes must be an organization specific thing added after the TSD/SBD splits.


 
Yeah, I think that's what happened... It creates another gradation beyond the Yudanja/Kodanja...


----------



## IcemanSK (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks to you all. There are always things like that that folks outside an art wonder about. I appreciate your input.


----------



## DMcHenry (Mar 29, 2008)

Grandmaster Jae Joon Kim (RIP) had all his "master" level instructors (in TSD, 4th Dans and up) wear the dark blue belt with red strips along the top and bottom of the blet.  I always thought it looked sorta gawdy, so now that I'm independent I have both a black and a blue belt with the single red strip through the middle.  It's an option with my other organization instructors, as some choose not to have the red strip, most do, and they choose wether they want blue or black.

To me, it's only meaning is to denote a kodanja member, as we don't put rank stripes on our belts for those 4th dan and higher.

Mac


----------



## jehja43679 (Apr 6, 2008)

Good morning, everyone.

I hope all of you are in great health and spirits.

My name's Marc, and I'm a student and instructor of Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan®.

I wanted to chime in about what we are taught about the Chul Hak of the Ko Dan Ja di.

The Red Belt itself represents the season of summer, which is "active and fiery" and the Midnight Blue belt represents the season of autumn, when it is calm, and time to harvest what has been grown over the past seasons.

The Ko Dan Ja di is said to represent 'Neh Kang Weh Yu,' meaning 'Inside Strong - Outside Gentle' since the fiery red stripe makes up the interior and the calm midnight blue, the exterior.

This is what the founder, Hwang Kee, envisioned for practitioners of his art to become at the highest levels of Moo Duk Kwan discipline.


----------



## FieldDiscipline (Apr 6, 2008)

Welcome to MT.

That is a very informative post.


----------



## MBuzzy (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks for the input, welcome to MT, Kyo Sa Enriquez!  Be sure to stop by the meet and greet area for an introduction post as well.


----------



## JoelD (Apr 6, 2008)

I was just going to chime in with something very similar that my sa bom mentioned a few days ago. Fire on the inside gentle on the outside is exactly how she explained the meaning of the Ko dan Ja belt.

...and a Welcome to Kyo Sa Enriquez, Soo Bahk!


----------



## DatFlow (Apr 6, 2008)

JWLuiza said:


> www.warrior-scholar.com/smf



Is this JUST TSD? I can't really understand the whole forum... lmao


Also, On topic! I guess it would differ... To some... Bragging Rights, only to act like it means something when around the grandmaster... To others, Serious accomplishment... and to many, Just a Dream...


----------



## JoelD (Apr 6, 2008)

That forum is run by Sa Bom Nim Daniel Segarra. He used to be a member of the USSBDMDK Federation but broke away and started his own organization. I believe its called the Moo Sa Do Kwan.  If you want to know what he teaches/practices just sign up for the forum and ask him. A few Sa Boms that are still Fedration members post there on a regular basis and SBN Segarra seems to be held in pretty high regard. I personally have noticed his name in the credits portion of all of the Belt Rank Study guides that can (still) be bought from the Federation. As I recall in a post over there he mentioned that he helped with all of the foot diagrams for the forms in the books and unless i am mistaking him, he is also in the Matching DVDs that can be bought for the belt guides. He is in the sections under Ho Sin Sool doing wrist grabs with Sa Bom Nim Daymon Kenyon.


----------



## jehja43679 (Apr 8, 2008)

Glad to be of help.

Thanks for all the welcome notes!  I know it's late, but I guess I'll head over to the meet and greet thread as suggested by MBuzzy.


----------

