# Know what i want to learn Dont know were to start



## rtimmerman (Jun 7, 2013)

First off i am new to this site.  

I want to learn Self defense with knife fighting techniques i know there are many styles and i dont know were to start or even were i can go to learn this or be tought this.  I was wondering if someone can point me in the right direction or even the right forum.

I live in Iowa if that helps at all.


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## Blindside (Jun 7, 2013)

rtimmerman said:


> First off i am new to this site.
> 
> I want to learn Self defense with knife fighting techniques i know there are many styles and i dont know were to start or even were i can go to learn this or be tought this.  I was wondering if someone can point me in the right direction or even the right forum.
> 
> I live in Iowa if that helps at all.



"Knife-fighting" very frequently has little or nothing to do with "self-defense."  Do you mean self-defense against a knife, or are you pretty serious about learning knife dueling?  I enjoy the technical aspects of learning about knife-fighting, but you should understand that it is an incredibly uncommon real world scenario.

Lots of systems have "defense vs. knife" of varying degrees of quality.  As a group, the Filipino Martial Arts (escrima, arnis, kali) are probably the most prevalent that would offer both the self-defense and the dueling side of things.

Where in Iowa do you live?


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## rtimmerman (Jun 7, 2013)

Blindside said:


> "Knife-fighting" very frequently has little or nothing to do with "self-defense."  Do you mean self-defense against a knife, or are you pretty serious about learning knife dueling?  I enjoy the technical aspects of learning about knife-fighting, but you should understand that it is an incredibly uncommon real world scenario.
> 
> Lots of systems have "defense vs. knife" of varying degrees of quality.  As a group, the Filipino Martial Arts (escrima, arnis, kali) are probably the most prevalent that would offer both the self-defense and the dueling side of things.
> 
> Where in Iowa do you live?


I want to learn both parts self defense against a knife and dueling i plan to get my concealed carry license and i would preffer to carry a knife but i want to know how to properly defend myself with it.  I know the chances of me needing to are slim to none but i would still like to learn both for self defense and the technical asspect.


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## Blindside (Jun 7, 2013)

Are you sure a CWP allows you to carry a knife?  Many states don't include a knife under a concealed weapon permit, despite its name.

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked it up, it does.


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## rtimmerman (Jun 7, 2013)

IOwa's and the utha one i belive includes knves but if they do not in iowa you can carry a knife as long as the blade is under 4 inches long and it is legal which i already do for utility purposes


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## Blindside (Jun 7, 2013)

Where in Iowa?  I don't think I know of any FMA practitioners there, but it would help to have a starting area to look for a recommendation.


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## rtimmerman (Jun 7, 2013)

Mason City Will be moving soon About a hour drive from Des Monies


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## Blindside (Jun 7, 2013)

One of my old kenpo classmates now teaches at Borangan Kempo in Des Moines.  I know it has an integrated curriculum, so it may not be as initially focused on weapon work as you might want.  He had high praise for the school.
http://www.barongankempo.com/home

A quick google search picked up this place, maybe it will be close to you.
http://www.cuttingedgemartialarts.com/

As did this:
http://www.ksma.us/desmoines.html


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## arnisador (Jun 7, 2013)

It sounds like the Filipino Martial Arts would be a natural choice for you. Indonesian could work too but that's very hard to find.


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## rtimmerman (Jun 7, 2013)

Thank You


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 10, 2013)

My humble advice is whatever art or system you might study is please go for the most realistic one. There are so many wannabe knife masters who haven't been in real combat... It's OK to learn from an instructor who doesn't have combat experience but knows what he is talking about and keeps his system realistic and less BS. Please stay away from teachers who just makes their students stand like mannequins and act like dummies while they perform their "fantastic" dummy gutting skills in slow motion. Slow motion is good for beginners but if you see him doing the same "fantastic slow motion" routine to his best students, then there might be a some problem. Real knife fights happens very fast, very dirty and the movements are often fluid and be prepared to get jack-hammered so best to train this way. Hope you find a good teacher.


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## SuitableScroll (Jun 27, 2013)

I would definitely recommend you try some Silat. It is a great art if you'd like to study knife skills as well as great defense skills. Extremely realistic. The perk with Silat is that all of the forms and movements are the same for knife or empty hand, so you only need to learn one form for both. I know of a place in De Moines called Kapatiran Suntukan Martial Arts that offers Silat as well as Filipino martial arts like Escrima. Not sure of the quality of the place as I have never been there myself. But I would definitely recommend you look for Silat classes.


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## lklawson (Jun 28, 2013)

SuitableScroll said:


> The perk with Silat is that all of the forms and movements are the same for knife or empty hand, so you only need to learn one form for both.


 

That depends on which style of Silat you're using.  It may be true, it may not.
Many FMA advocates say the same thing of their art so it's not unique to Silat.
There are a number of people, including myself, who suggest that the movements and techniques used while holding a knife are not necessarily the most effective or efficient when participants of a fight are unarmed.  Slashes work great with knives but suck with fists.  You don't stab the same way you punch.
 
Don't get me wrong.  Most of the Silat I've seen has been great for knife and stick and often has some interesting grapples.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## SuitableScroll (Jun 28, 2013)

@lklawson, thank you for replying. Indeed it does depend on the Silat you are doing as there are over 800 different styles of Silat, so I should have been more specific. In the styles of Silat I have taken (Kun  Tao in particular), the knife and empty hand forms are almost exactly the same, granted you don't stab the way you punch lol. Another thing I forgot to mention is that in Kun Tao we always assume the attacker is stronger, faster, and armed, so the defense against knife and the defense against an unarmed attacker look almost exactly the same. But there's a common saying in Silat, that is, "Silat without a knife, is not Silat." I have not had extensive training in FMA, so I cant really say anything about it and its knife skills, all that I can say is what I have experienced from FMA is that is uses a lot of sticks and not so much knives, but like I said I've had limited experience with the FMA so you could be right  Indeed, slashes with a fist are quite dumb and useless, but in the Silat I have done there is not slashing with the fists or I wouldn't be taking it haha. When we change from using a knife to using no weapons, most of the "Slashey" moves, turn into very powerful open hand strikes. Thank you again for your reply and time


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## lklawson (Jun 28, 2013)

I like Kun Tao.  Had an old friend who was a practitioner.  He fell ill some years ago.  Probably dead now.

No offense intended, but I must say that the repeated on-again-off-again hot-n-cold relationship between the de Thouars brothers are at once both amusing and inscrutable.  An outsiders view of their internal politics has generated more than a bit of disillusionment for me, irrespective of the high regard I hold for the art itself.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Happy-Papi (Jun 28, 2013)

SuitableScroll said:


> @lklawson, thank you for replying. Indeed it does depend on the Silat you are doing as there are over 800 different styles of Silat, so I should have been more specific. In the styles of Silat I have taken (Kun  Tao in particular), the knife and empty hand forms are almost exactly the same, granted you don't stab the way you punch lol. Another thing I forgot to mention is that in Kun Tao we always assume the attacker is stronger, faster, and armed, so the defense against knife and the defense against an unarmed attacker look almost exactly the same. But there's a common saying in Silat, that is, "Silat without a knife, is not Silat." I have not had extensive training in FMA, so I cant really say anything about it and its knife skills, all that I can say is what I have experienced from FMA is that is uses a lot of sticks and not so much knives, but like I said I've had limited experience with the FMA so you could be right  Indeed, slashes with a fist are quite dumb and useless, but in the Silat I have done there is not slashing with the fists or I wouldn't be taking it haha. When we change from using a knife to using no weapons, most of the "Slashey" moves, turn into very powerful open hand strikes. Thank you again for your reply and time



I've done some Traditional FMA (old Pinoy mountain gradpop style) and we focus more on work blades like bolos, ax, and sickle and less with sticks. It was more on simple stabbing, slicing and chopping and lots of actual mountain work. I believe that Modern FMA is more dynamic and have lots of techniques compared to ours and uses a wide variety of weapons but sticks are the most popular of all it's weapons since sticks are the "all rounders" and can be used by anybody starting from kids to peace officers. Some FMA groups concentrates more on knives but I guess that sticks out numbers us.

I also did a bit of Philippine Kuntaw and Silat but only got minimal study on their blade arts since my seniors said that I should just stick with what I know or it will only complicate my little brain. "Silat without a knife, is not Silat"... sad I'm one of these loser guys HAHAHA! I really like Silat's use of the elbows and Kuntaw's circular waving punches. When I was watching my seniors practicing Silat, they have lots of knife techniques and they really look cool. I wish that I could have studied more but my seniors told me that we all should stick to what we are good at...


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## never-finished-learning (Feb 7, 2014)

ok sooooo best thing i can tell you is there are lots of combat systems out there and most include some sort of knife fighting instruction the 3 best i can suggest according to the details you gave are Krav maga, F.I.G.H.T, and MBC (martial blade concepts). For knife fighting techniqes shop around its a big world but to my knowledge if you want well rounded defense systems these are some good ones


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## wingchun100 (Feb 12, 2014)

Try to find an escrima or kali school.


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## wingchun100 (Feb 12, 2014)

Also try the "knife arts" forum on here. They might have a better idea.


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