# Good to see karateka do well in UFC



## allenjp (May 27, 2008)

Lyoto Machida beat Tito Ortiz on Saturday night. In fact it wasn't really a contest, Ortiz tried and tried to take Machida down and just couldn't do it to save his life. He ended up eating Machida's kicks half of the time. It was a unanimous decision. 

Anyway Machida is being touted as a Karate Master. I don't know if he may have trained in anything else, but he is anounced as a "Karate Fighter". It's good to see a TMA'ist do so well in MMA.

Just my 2/100 of a dollar.


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## punisher73 (May 27, 2008)

I thought it was interesting as well, that under style listed it did have "karate".  I got a show on friday night that highlighted both fighters before their fight on saturday.  It showed Machida practicing and going through kata.

Machida has beat some big names in MMA also, Tito Ortiz, BJ Penn and Rich Franklin all come to mind, although there might be others.


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## Nolerama (May 27, 2008)

I wish Ortiz actually gave him a fight. Machida has style; I just wish we got to see more. Maybe his ground game.

St. Pierre and Liddell are both karate practitioners, right?


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## Odin (May 27, 2008)

Nolerama said:


> I wish Ortiz actually gave him a fight. Machida has style; I just wish we got to see more. Maybe his ground game.
> 
> St. Pierre and Liddell are both karate practitioners, right?


 
The thing is Ortiz tried machida distance and timing is flawless, he was always just out of Tito's reach but always in reach when he wanted to strike, you can see the frustration on Tito at the end of the third round.


Everyone forgets Semmy Shilt he was the orignal karate fighter....and he just won the k-1 Grand prix.


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## allenjp (May 27, 2008)

Dude, Semmy Shilt?

I think he was actually a kick boxer, but I don't think it matters what style he practiced, a guy coming at you that's like 8 feet tall with arms and legs the size of small trees in going to cause problems for anyone.

And yes, I think both GSP and Liddell started out in Karate but they both studied other things and now I think they both call themselves "mixed martial artists". Machida may be the most pure Karateka yet in MMA. Maybe, I don't know for sure.

And you're right, Machida put on a distance and timing clinic. I think this goes to show how much those components are underestimated by a lot of people. And how about those double pump kicks that started low and then went high? Classic.


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## D Dempsey (May 27, 2008)

I wouldn't say he's pure Karate, he's also a black belt in BJJ.


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## allenjp (May 27, 2008)

D Dempsey said:


> I wouldn't say he's pure Karate, he's also a black belt in BJJ.


 
Really? OK I missed that. But it was obvious that at least in this fight he preferred to stay standing.


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## D Dempsey (May 27, 2008)

It rarely gets brought up, but yes he is a black belt in BJJ.  I think the shotokan karate has an overall bigger impact on his style and strategy so the BJJ tends to get overlooked.


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## Selfcritical (May 27, 2008)

Nolerama said:


> I wish Ortiz actually gave him a fight. Machida has style; I just wish we got to see more. Maybe his ground game.
> 
> St. Pierre and Liddell are both karate practitioners, right?



St pierre is a kyoushykin fighter, much different sort of Karate than the Shotokan that Machida did.


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## Selfcritical (May 27, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Dude, Semmy Shilt?
> 
> I think he was actually a kick boxer, but I don't think it matters what style he practiced, a guy coming at you that's like 8 feet tall with arms and legs the size of small trees in going to cause problems for anyone.
> 
> ...



He orignally started with Shotokan, then Sumo and BJJ, and now, like any sane professional fighter, he trains in whatever skillset he needs for the next fight.


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## Jai (May 27, 2008)

I just find it wonderful that in the recent hybrid crazy fighting style MMA world someone toted as a "pure" fighter in a select style or even two styles could stand up like they do. People are saying it can't be done, I say bull. I'm not the best example having studied in four different arts but I have friends that are into MMA and have a hard time sparring with me, even if I stay within one art. It all comes down to how dedicated you are and how you apply what you have been taught. Still, watching Tito eat kicks is enough to make me smile.


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## Empty Hands (May 27, 2008)

Jai said:


> I just find it wonderful that in the recent hybrid crazy fighting style MMA world someone toted as a "pure" fighter in a select style or even two styles could stand up like they do.



Well, Machida may be "touted" as a pure fighter, but he isn't really.  Sure, he may be more "karate" than most, but as has been mentioned he has extensive BJJ experience, and excellent takedown defense which in my experience is rarely covered in standard karate classes.


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## Jai (May 27, 2008)

good point, but neither is he toted as a "mix martial artist" or whatever they call these guys that use the Militage Fighting System for example. It makes me wonder a little now if the fighters themselves are able to select what they are billed at or if they just toss something out there. Watching the fight again(I love recording this stuff lol) I can see a very strong Karate presence with the way he fights, but yes the take down defense is likely from the BJJ. It's nothing that looks close to anything I have ever been taught in Karate. But his ring skills is closer to a pure art then what I've seen in a long time. Can anyone else think of any others who look more pure in style aside from the wrestlers that just pick someone up then pound the crap out of them?


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## Empty Hands (May 27, 2008)

Jai said:


> Can anyone else think of any others who look more pure in style aside from the wrestlers that just pick someone up then pound the crap out of them?



There were a few, in the early days.  They all got owned by the grapplers.  Of course, then people learned a little grappling of their own, and the grapplers had to learn stand up to avoid their own ownage.

Hence, "mixed martial arts."  I don't think the sport is friendly to style purists, since most arts focus on a single or subset of ranges and contexts.  Pure BJJ guys don't do well, pure karateka or TKD'ers don't do well, etc.  Everyone that does well has convincing skills standing up or on the ground, and at a range of distances.  They may prefer one or the other, but they can't afford to neglect any.  Thus, they won't appear "pure."  If they were, someone would just exploit their weak range.


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## Brian S (May 27, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Really? OK I missed that. But it was obvious that at least in this fight he preferred to stay standing.


 
 I just made a more detailed thread about this in the talk section before I knew about this thread. oops.... Could we combine them?

 Machida has studied sumo, bjj,mt,and mma style for mma fights. you can credit his wins those things


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## Odin (May 28, 2008)

Selfcritical said:


> St pierre is a kyoushykin fighter, much different sort of Karate than the Shotokan that Machida did.


 
Thats true, the thing that I think people are getting confused with is that even though people like pierre state they are kyoushkin...i know for a fact the he trains with a muay thai fighter in his camp.
alot of the time these are styles that a fighter has previously been taught.


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## Jai (May 28, 2008)

Just wondering, does anyone else miss the old UFC days? No weight classes, no belts, Iron Man style fighting tournaments? Yeah it was a big promotion for the Gracies but still I enjoyed watching guys of different more "pure" styles face off against one another.


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## allenjp (May 28, 2008)

Jai said:


> Just wondering, does anyone else miss the old UFC days? No weight classes, no belts, Iron Man style fighting tournaments? Yeah it was a big promotion for the Gracies but still I enjoyed watching guys of different more "pure" styles face off against one another.


 
I really enjoyed that too, I watch the old UFC stuff whenever I can. The problem is that in order to get the sport sanctioned they had to add those components. I think that is how they got the following that they have now. Without those sorts of regulations many people would just pass it off as "human cock fighting" and not watch.


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## allenjp (May 28, 2008)

Brian S said:


> I just made a more detailed thread about this in the talk section before I knew about this thread. oops.... Could we combine them?
> 
> Machida has studied sumo, bjj,mt,and mma style for mma fights. you can credit his wins those things


 
Sure we can combine the threads...granted I have no idea how to do that so if you want to do it...by all means.

I'm not so sure about crediting his wins completely to his study of those other styles...I am almost sure the kicks which seemed to me to be his main weapon in this fight were mainly karate style kicks. Of course all styles that one has studied must receive partial credit for how one performs since they all together make up the total fighter.


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