# Shotokan to (Isshin-Ryu \ Ishinryu)



## jezr74 (Aug 27, 2012)

Hi There,

I've recently move to Brookline, MA (2-3 year work assignment) and have found what looks to be an excellent opportunity to learn Shotokan with a local dojo and appears to have a good line up of experienced teachers, so I'm hoping I will be able to emerge myself in the art and learn as much as possible before I head back to Australia.

I'm also interested to continue practicing when I return, but my options are vastly limited due to where I live and the density of MA schools. What is only a few suburbs away is an Ishinryu dojo. 

I've done a little research and can see that Ishinryu is a lead off from Kyoshukinkai I believe, and also not to be confused with Isshin-Ryu.

My main question being is if I start the practice of Shotokan here in the US and move back to AU, will Shotokan lead on well if I was then to move to Ishinryu.

I'm hoping the people of this forum may be familiar with these styles and if they compliment each other in some way that it won't be like starting all over again when returning..

Thanks,

Jeremy


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## Grenadier (Aug 27, 2012)

I can't offer a very detailed explanation of the Ishinryu system, especially if it's different from the "standard" Isshin-Ryu system.  

I can, however, give you an insight into the Shotokan system.  

If you're already familiar with Kyokushin Kai Karate, then you may find Shotokan Karate to be somewhat more similar to it.  

One thing for certain, though, if you become proficient in Shotokan Karate, it can only help you if you move on to other systems that emphasize hard striking.  The bottom line is this, that just about any respectable Karate system will encourage the same thing, using the lower body to drive the upper body in a fluid manner, in order to maximize power, while minimizing upper body effort.  

Today's Shotokan Karate dojo usually puts an emphasis on a lot of fundamental technique training, and encourages one to have a solid set of stance work, so that you can maximize the use of the lower body to drive the upper body.  

Most of the techniques taught, especially at  the shodan and lower levels, will be primarily hard striking, again with a strong emphasis on using the whole body to drive the punch, kick, etc.


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## seasoned (Aug 27, 2012)

Grenadier said:


> I can't offer a very detailed explanation of the Ishinryu system, especially if it's different from the "standard" Isshin-Ryu system.
> 
> I can, however, give you an insight into the Shotokan system.
> 
> ...



Great statement. 

I know very little about the (2) systems in the OP, but power transfer is key, as your say, to any respectable karate system. :asian:


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## kitkatninja (Aug 28, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> ...My main question being is if I start the practice of Shotokan here in the US and move back to AU, will Shotokan lead on well if I was then to move to Ishinryu....



If you learn Shotokan from a good Shotokan club, then yes.  Ishinryu, the one developed by Ticky Donovan, is derived from Shotokan, Kyokushinkai and Wado ryu.  I did Ni-sen karate for about 4 months (which is basically a break away from Ishinryu) and I found it, not easy, but easier to adapt to (there are some variations though).  If you're going to ask about transfering your Shotokan grade across, well that will be down to the individual instructor and how good you are, after all while there are alot of ssimilarities it is a different style at the end of the day.


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## Doomx2001 (Aug 28, 2012)

Isshinryu is a karate style founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku (&#23798;&#34955; &#40845;&#22827 and named by him on 15 January 1956. Isshin-Ry&#363; karate is largely a synthesis of Shorin-ry&#363; karate, Goj&#363;-ry&#363; karate, and kobud&#333;. The name means, literally, "one heart way".

There are 8 empty hand kata's in Isshinryu. Of these 8 kata's, only one is an origianl to the style (Sunsu). The rest comes from Goju ryu and Shori Ryu. Most karate styles share the same kata's with minor differences. Also worth mentioning, Shotokan Karate has about 20 something katas. 
The Isshinryu system was developed by Shimabuku to be the best of all Karate styles. It was taught to many U.S Marines which is why there is a strong following of Isshinryu in the U.S. I asked an instructor once what separates Isshinryu from other karate styles, and the instructors response was, "Isshinryu is for killing, not sport". 

Isshinryu stances are very upright when compared to Shotokan karate. Shotokan had many Japanese elements added to it when Founder Funakoshi started teaching in Japan. Isshinryu is more reflective of Okinawa. 
All kicks in Isshinryu are aimed below the waist. They also specialize in the vertical punch. 
*Empty Hand katas of Isshinryu.

Seisan - *The Goj&#363;-ry&#363; curriculum includes a related version of Seisan, but Isshin-ry&#363; Seisan was learned from Chotoku Kyan, not Miyagi.

*Seiunchin - *This kata was brought into Isshinryu from Shimabuku's studies with the Goj&#363;-ry&#363; Ryu founder, Chojun Miyagi

*Naihanchi -* Naihanchi comes to Isshin Ryu from studies with both Chotoku Kyan and Motobu Choki (a cousin of Kyan). It is also considered one of the staples of Ryukyu Ti, and is prevalent in most forms of Karate.

*Wans&#363; - *Also coming from Kyan, Wansh&#363; (also known as Wansu) has several iterations on the island of Ryukyu.  Popular history has the kata coming from a Chinese political visitor  who, during his duties, taught his fighting method in the open.

*Chinto - *As with most of the kata in Isshin Ryu, Chinto comes from the teaching of Kyan.[

*Kusanku -* Of the eight weaponless kata in Isshin-Ryu, five come from the teaching of Chotoku Kyan. Kusanku is one of these. Kusanku is often referred to as a "night-fighting" kata, or a form  which teaches fighting at night. Modern research does not support this  theory.[SUP][7][/SUP]  In reality, the kata is set up in such a manner as to allow continual  study of application potential from basic standing grappling and close  striking in the beginning, to more aggressive and proactive techniques  near the end.

*Sunsu - *This kata was designed by the founder of Isshin-Ryu, Shimabuku Tatsuo.[SUP][8][/SUP]  It incorporates several movements from other kata in the Isshin-Ryu  syllabus, as well as from kata from other instructors, in addition to  techniques and concepts Shimabuku favore*d.*

*Sanchin -*Coming from Miyagi Chojun, Sanchin has its origins in the Goj&#363;-ry&#363; Ryu system. Along with Seiunchin, this is one of two Goj&#363;-ry&#363; katas in Isshin-ry&#363;.

All styles of Karate are worth looking into. Should you not be able to find a Shotokan school back home, I think depending on the instructor, you may enjoy Isshinryu quite a' bit. I hope this gives you a better understanding of Isshinryu. I don't practice Isshinryu, but I do know a bit about it.


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## K-man (Aug 28, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> Hi There,
> 
> I've recently move to Brookline, MA (2-3 year work assignment) and have found what looks to be an excellent opportunity to learn Shotokan with a local dojo and appears to have a good line up of experienced teachers, so I'm hoping I will be able to emerge myself in the art and learn as much as possible before I head back to Australia.
> 
> ...


You are right in saying that Ishinryu is totally different to Isshin Ryu.  What area of Melbourne will you be returning to?


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## kitkatninja (Aug 28, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> ...I've done a little research and can see that Ishinryu _is a lead off _from *Kyoshukinkai *I believe, and also not to be confused with Isshin-Ryu...





Doomx2001 said:


> Isshinryu is a karate style founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku (&#23798;&#34955; &#40845;&#22827 and named by him on 15 January 1956. Isshin-Ry&#363; karate is largely a synthesis of Shorin-ry&#363; karate, Goj&#363;-ry&#363; karate, and kobud&#333;. The name means, literally, "one heart way"....
> 
> ...All styles of Karate are worth looking into. Should you not be able to find a Shotokan school back home, I think depending on the instructor, you may enjoy Isshinryu quite a' bit. I hope this gives you a better understanding of Isshinryu. I don't practice Isshinryu, but I do know a bit about it.



Based on what the OP described, you've described the other style of karate with the similar name not the Ishinryu karate the OP was talking about.  But I agree with what you're saying, re all styles of karate are worth looking into (apart from one, but that is down to my own personal experience)


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## jezr74 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate the detail people put in replies on this forum. I'll make the most of the teachings while I am here.

K-man, I live down the Mornington Peninsular in Mt.Eliza. So while there are dojos around, it's limited in selection.



Sent using Tapatalk


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## Doomx2001 (Aug 29, 2012)

Sorry about the mixup, I thought you guys were referring to Isshinryu. I did find a video that gives an idea of what Ticky Donovan'd Ishinryu is like:


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## OldKarateGuy (Sep 15, 2012)

As always, I'm late to the thread. If you're thinking of JKA Boston, they have some awesome instructors. I'd kill to get into that dojo and learn from them. I'd say go for it. It's a great style too.


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## jezr74 (Oct 8, 2012)

I've started training at this dojo really starting to enjoy it, I'm surprised I'm more into kata than I was 20 years ago. I've definitely lost all my coordination and flexibility I had back then as well.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## kitkatninja (Oct 9, 2012)

jezr74 said:


> I've started training at this dojo really starting to enjoy it, I'm surprised I'm more into kata than I was 20 years ago. I've definitely lost all my coordination and flexibility I had back then as well.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2



Glad to hear it


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