# Practicing while sick/injured



## Flea (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm prone to bouts of depression, as I've mentioned elsewhere.  Fortunately the emotional component of that is managed pretty well with pharmaceuticals, but when I crash I still get the rest of the symptoms - I can't focus at all, I get physically slow and clumsy, and lightheaded.  

After one or two embarrassing days, I made a firm decision not to go to class when I'm down.  It simply doesn't work - since I can't focus, I can't keep up with the social conversation at all, much less the teaching.  Today I really pissed someone off by hurting him - he told me more than once to back off, and I simply didn't get it.  He lost his temper and I don't blame him at all. (It wasn't an injury, it was simply pain that wasn't fun.) In the conversation after class everyone engaged in a great discussion on the place of spirituality in MA while I stared stupidly.

If I'd realized my state of mind I wouldn't have gone today, but it crept up on me after I got there.  I didn't want to be rude by leaving, and I kept hoping the practice would perk me up. :wah:  It's a shame, because that's when I need the practice most.

So ... not everyone has this particular cross to bear, but I'd be interested to know how others with major health issues handle practice on an ongoing basis.  How do you decide when to show up or stay home, and how do you accommodate yourself when you're having trouble in the dojo?  Unfortunately I don't feel that I can be open with my class about this particular issue ... even though I'm sure it's pretty clear.  So aside from the obvious, what else can anyone suggest?


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 18, 2009)

I try to go to the dojo and inform the sensei that due to an injury, I'll be observing and taking notes.  I get a lot out of watching, and I can try to put it to use when I feel better.  I did miss last Thursday.  I feel guilty about it, but there was no way I could go.  Life goes on.


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## Carol (Apr 18, 2009)

Flea said:


> Unfortunately I don't feel that I can be open with my class about this particular issue ... even though I'm sure it's pretty clear.  So aside from the obvious, what else can anyone suggest?



If you find you have to say something, you don't have to tell the whole story.  "I'm way too drained today" or "I have absolutely no mental energy left today" can get the point across without getting in to the whys and hows.

Depression sucks for anyone...and exhaustion can lead to a temporary state of depression, even in folks that don't have depressive disorders. For me, I have an uber-stressful job that I can usually handle well (if I couldn't I wouldn't have stayed in my industry...lol)   But I won't deny that there are some days that just totally push me in to a bad place.   So...on days I can't train I try to assess how I am really feeling.  If I am physically exhausted...I lay low and take it easy.  

If I am just mentally drained, I stay home and do weight training.  Lifts, swinging my kettle bells, going for a walk up steps/hills with my weight vest on (an alternative could be loading up a backpack with books and going up and down hills or flights of steps). For me, nothing blasts a bad mental fog/funk like lifting something heavy.


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## grydth (Apr 18, 2009)

Flea, I am a strong believer in recovery and rehab through the martial arts. (It got me through a divorce). Along with I bet everyone else on the Forum, I'm pulling for you to succeed here.

But... hurting another student and angry disagreements on the mat are serious concerns. One can sense you feel very badly about this.

I hope you will speak with your instructor and any mentors you have among the senior people there. On some days, you should take Bill's excellent suggestion and watch the class. Sometimes, calm and from a safe distance,  I learned things I might not have. Plus you maintain a connection with the class.

Perhaps work out a "safe" code word with sensei, which would enable you to leave quickly but not appear rude. There may be other days where you'd benefit from forms or bag work, but should avoid sparring... half a class is better than none.

There are some days for all of us where we should not be in the dojo. Accept that every one of us has these and see if you can put that day to another beneficial use.

Stay with the class! You deserve to succeed.


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## jks9199 (Apr 18, 2009)

I'd encourage you to go to class.  Warn your classmates; as was said, you don't need to go at length, just "Hey, I'm out of it today, let's go slow/keep an eye on me..."  Or even just work solo drills, and explain that you're not up to working with a partner today.

And work on developing class as a "safe zone" where you leave outside stuff outside.  Let it become a break from the other stuff, and associate class with a putting a positive attitude on -- even if you have to fight to do so.  (I'm assuming that the meds are mostly taking care of things; I'm not trying to make light of clinical depression here.)


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## Marginal (Apr 18, 2009)

I get migraines frequently. When I feel one coming on, I have a real hard time focusing and keeping my temper in check. Not a great combination, so I stay home when one is on. 

I try to balance it out by working out on my own more outside of class when I can't go. It's the action more than the location that's important.


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## jks9199 (Apr 18, 2009)

Marginal said:


> I get migraines frequently. When I feel one coming on, I have a real hard time focusing and keeping my temper in check. Not a great combination, so I stay home when one is on.
> 
> I try to balance it out by working out on my own more outside of class when I can't go. It's the action more than the location that's important.


That's an important point.

As a general rule, I strongly encourage students not to miss class.  If they're not up to working out for some reason, they can still watch and observe.  You never know what you'll miss if you're not there... and I used to be absolutely certain that the class I missed would be the one that I NEEDED, and my teacher would never teach it again.  

But there are times not to be there, even to watch.  Contagious illnesses, for example, leap to mind.  Migraines can be incredibly debilitating, as can other illnesses.  If you're going to be so out of it, so out of sorts, that you can't function -- then it's a night not to be there.  

But I've found that, over time, class has become a time when I can drop the problems of the day, drop the crappy mood or whatever, and just focus on my training.  For a little while, things are simple.  Move/don't move.  Hit/don't get hit.  Even when things aren't coming together and I'm getting frustrated -- it's a concrete thing I can deal with.  Now, as an instructor, if I'm in a crappy enough mood... Well, the class sweats until I'm in a better mood!  :EG:

One thing I don't do is take anger/frustration/annoyance/crappy-moodiness onto the training floor for sparring or partner work.  That's a recipe for disaster...


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## Flea (Apr 18, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback, all.



> One thing I don't do is take anger/frustration/annoyance/crappy-moodiness onto the training floor for sparring or partner work. That's a recipe for disaster...



Please understand I wasn't being malicious at all.  I was simply so out of focus that I didn't internalize my surroundings, including what my partner said to me three times in a row.  We were doing stick work and he asked me not to hit him twice in the same spot, and I just didn't hear him.  Finally he got snippy and I realized that I'd been oblivious.  I offered him the stick to trade roles since I obviously had screwed up royally, and he declined it.  We moved on from there and that was that.

I think the next time I have a crash during class I will sit out.  If anyone asks, I can just *sniffle* come down with an instant allergy attack or something.  It may be better than the alternative of making an **** of myself again like that.

I've given a lot of air time to my mental quirks on this forum ... you guys must all think I'm a total basket case by now. :erg:  I'll try to tone it down from now on.


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## Carol (Apr 18, 2009)

Flea said:


> I've given a lot of air time to my mental quirks on this forum ... you guys must all think I'm a total basket case by now. :erg:  I'll try to tone it down from now on.



Don't you dare tone it down.     There have been plenty of people that have come and gone with a "doth protest too much" whine.  Your posts are definitely not one of them.

You aren't someone making excuses, or trying to get out of your obligations, or whining why you weren't promoted quick enough o complaining that you're  not being worshiped as the Mega Gawd Of All Things Karadee. You're a person that loves their training and wants to work through the occasional roadblocks that get in the way.

We get a benefit from it too.  Those of us that can help (if we can help) can get a satisfaction of extending a hand to a student that is trying like heck to keep going.    

Its also a chance for us to learn.  When working with someone (as a fellow student or as an instructor) that has a physical illness or disability, their issues are often obvious.  But when working with someone that has a psychiatric illness, the issues aren't always obvious, and what the student needs isn't always obvious.   The only way we can know is by talking, and we can't learn anything if the affected person doesn't speak up.  So by all means, keep speaking up!

Your issues aren't any different than someone that has been damaged by meningitis or cerebral palsy.  Part of your brain doesn't work the way it should, and its bad enough to interfere with your life, including how your body works.  And like most other disorders, it isn't your fault that it happened but it is your responsibility to fight through it the best you can.   

You are a warrior, and we won't let you fail. :asian:


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Apr 19, 2009)

If you feel you will endanger others and yourself then perhaps it is not ideal to go to class. But this does not mean you can not train.
 Look to other outlets such as jogging,lifting weights,hitting a heavy bag,Yoga,mediation. You can also try private lessons or work on your kata or solo form  You can also try the internal arts which can help you relax more and channel your energy in a positve way.

Many ways to train find what you like and adapt it to your training.


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## Lisa (Apr 19, 2009)

Your problem is complex and does not have an easy answer.  In your original post you stated that it crept up on you during class and couldn't keep up with the social aspect, etc. but you also stated that you didn't want to be rude by leaving which to me sounds like you have a grasp of what is going on and do have to ability to stop what is happening.  

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your teacher but he does have a right to know ALL your health issues and depression is a health issue.  You need to be upfront with him.  Tell him what the signs are when you are in this state of mind and let him help you watch out for them.  This way he can have the opportunity to simply suggest that he work with you one on one which will prevent any embarrassment to you and prevent any undue pain to others. If he is a good instructor, having you leave if you wish to do so in this situation will not be rude in his eyes but will make him realize how responsible you are when it comes to his other students and yourself.

I hope what I am saying helps in some way, and I wish you good training.


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## Flea (Apr 19, 2009)

Thank you Lisa, and your point is solid.  

I have very mixed feelings about coming out of that particular closet; in one of my first classes somebody mentioned a kid he grew up with who was just weird.  Somebody echoed the weird aspect, and the instructor said "No, more like bi_po_lar ... schizo_phre_nia."  He had exactly the same tone and facial expression one might use in discussing _car_jackings ... _bo_tulism ... the KK_K_.  That, and there's one student who keeps making snotty jokes about roughing up patients in mental hospitals.  So on this one niche issue, which happens to be a major part of my life, I do feel that I'm in a hostile climate.  I think it's a realistic fear that if my "dirty little secret" came to light, they would disinvite me back.  Us crazy folk are _dangerous_ after all.  In most situations I would take the opportunity of educating them kindly, but I really need this class and I don't want to lose it.

I can't always predict when the clouds will roll in, but in the past I have stepped out during class when they did.  So maybe my compromise will be to be more willing to sit out the rest of class if I have to, and work on a more authentic assessment of when I should.   Usually I'm very good at that.  We all have moments when we miss important cues though, and I'll stop beating myself up over it.  

That's what my classmates are for.  :uhyeah:


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## Lisa (Apr 19, 2009)

Flea said:


> Thank you Lisa, and your point is solid.
> 
> I have very mixed feelings about coming out of that particular closet; in one of my first classes somebody mentioned a kid he grew up with who was just weird.  Somebody echoed the weird aspect, and the instructor said "No, more like bi_po_lar ... schizo_phre_nia."  He had exactly the same tone and facial expression one might use in discussing _car_jackings ... _bo_tulism ... the KK_K_.  That, and there's one student who keeps making snotty jokes about roughing up patients in mental hospitals.  So on this one niche issue, which happens to be a major part of my life, I do feel that I'm in a hostile climate.  I think it's a realistic fear that if my "dirty little secret" came to light, they would disinvite me back.  Us crazy folk are _dangerous_ after all.  In most situations I would take the opportunity of educating them kindly, but I really need this class and I don't want to lose it.
> 
> ...



Your classmates and teacher sound like an ignorant bunch of people and I have to say, if it were me, I would leave and find another school.  I find their attitude and outlook on the mentally challenged and ill repulsive to say the least and I know I wouldn't want to train under a teacher that not only didn't squash such conversation but actually perpetuated it by making similar comments.  

Your martial arts training is really good for you.  Getting your adrenalin pumping is really important, it helps with depression but working out in an environment that you describe can be detrimental to you.  Do you have other options?


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## Flea (Apr 19, 2009)

I might.  I found another Systema teacher in my city, so maybe I should put out a feeler.  I've never seen any ads for his school so I don't even know if he's actually teaching, he's just listed on the Toronto website.  I'd much rather stick with Systema than branch out to another form right now.

In the meantime, I had just paid for another 3 months and I'm not squandering that money.  I've been here for 5 months already and had a wonderful time for the most part.  I can stick it out for a couple more.


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## Lisa (Apr 20, 2009)

Flea said:


> I might.  I found another Systema teacher in my city, so maybe I should put out a feeler.  I've never seen any ads for his school so I don't even know if he's actually teaching, he's just listed on the Toronto website.  I'd much rather stick with Systema than branch out to another form right now.
> 
> In the meantime, I had just paid for another 3 months and I'm not squandering that money.  I've been here for 5 months already and had a wonderful time for the most part.  I can stick it out for a couple more.



In the mean time, check out the other teacher and see if you might mesh with him.  If he is teaching classes check them out.  Most schools will let you try out for a week or so before signing up.  That way when your three months are up at the other place you have a new place to study immediately and there will be no breaks in your training.  Good luck to you and remember that your health both mentally and physically are equally important.  You need to do what is best for you and be in an environment that can help you heal/deal with both equally.  Let us know how it goes.


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## Flea (Apr 24, 2009)

Last night by a fluke I was the only one who showed up, and the assistant was in charge for the night.  I was distracted and he was feeling a bit lazy, so we spent most of the 2 hours talking.  I finally got tired of all the _dirty little secret_ crap and laid it all out.  I'm nuts, I'm gay, I'm a kum-bay-yah liberal.  Deal with it.

What a surprise!  His father is bipolar, and we wound up swapping funny war stories about manic episodes and medications.  Even my one token psychotic break could _never_ compete with his childhood. :xtrmshock  But we laughed, really hard.  One has to laugh at this stuff, it's a survival skill.

Will he pass this along to the main instructor?  He probably should, on general principle.  I didn't make any requests either way.  I suspect he won't.  He assured me that I'm among supportive friends, even if I don't know them very well, and that it's a safe space to open up.  He also said that he has boundless respect for me to walk in as the only woman, week after week, and bust my ****.  I am, he said, a true survivor.  Tough as nails.

I feel a lot better having let most of that go.  We'll see what happens next.  I'm looking forward to Tuesday.


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## teekin (Apr 25, 2009)

Flea said:


> Last night by a fluke I was the only one who showed up, and the assistant was in charge for the night.  I was distracted and he was feeling a bit lazy, so we spent most of the 2 hours talking.  I finally got tired of all the _dirty little secret_ crap and laid it all out.  *I'm nuts, I'm gay, I'm a kum-bay-yah liberal.  Deal with it.*
> 
> What a surprise!  His father is bipolar, and we wound up swapping funny war stories about manic episodes and medications.  Even my one token psychotic break could _never_ compete with his childhood. :xtrmshock  But we laughed, really hard. * One has to laugh at this stuff, it's a survival skill.
> *
> ...



Flea, most people are kinda nuts in their own special way. You are a survivor, tough as a coffin nail, and can still laugh. I'm very glad you let this go and have a safe place to go now. Big cheer from me!!!!!! As for being gay, your just smarter and have more will power than me. I'm still horribly addicted to men, pathetic, I know.  I need to go to a lockdown rehab.
lori


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## Flea (Apr 25, 2009)

> As for being gay, your just smarter and have more will power than me.


Heh ... .willpower don't enter into it.  My city had a marathon today, and I watched the parade go by for over an hour.  Why?  Strong bouncing women in shorts, that's why!!   

:highfive:


Seriously though, I really appreciate the support.  I've been burned enough that I won't _totally_ believe that I'm copacetic until the main instructor comes back to town and I'm not ejected after a couple weeks.  But I do feel a lot better. In the meantime, I'll just kick back for the next marathon. :ultracool


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## IcemanSK (Apr 27, 2009)

It sounds like you've done some good stuff for yourself here. Keep it up!:ultracool


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## Live True (Apr 27, 2009)

Well done Flea!  I hope tonight goes well!


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## Flea (May 7, 2009)

Tonight I finally took the plunge and told my head instructor.  I didn't really _need_ to do it; I was pretty out of it tonight so it was clear that there was something amiss.  He said his main concern was that I got what I felt *I* needed from the class, and if sitting out is what I need on a given day then so be it.

Then he gave me some well-intentioned pointers on holistic living.  *sigh* Clearly that's worked wonders for him, but I know my own path.  To each their own.  In any case, it was a good conversation and I'm glad I had it.  I may not have needed to put it off as long as I did, but that's okay.  It's one more part of the journey.


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## grydth (May 7, 2009)

You gave your instructor, and previously the assistant, the chance to be understanding and caring human beings, and they took it. As for you, you are not weak, but rather quite strong.

Look how your courage and forthrightness have paid dividends..... for all of you. 

One of the leading British aces of the First World War recounted that his greatest challenge was conquering his own fear. 

I have long felt that those who have to work the hardest at MA often become the best. Now go enjoy your class and your fellow students.


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## Flea (May 8, 2009)

Thanks, hon.  That means a lot to me.

I can already tell what my Next Big Challenge is going to be.  I'd never done anything like MA before, and the novelty had shocked my brain into a wonderful high that's lasted almost 6 months.  Delicious!  But now that novelty has worn off.  The honeymoon is over, and that means that I'll be showing up depressed more often than not.  I'm not being dramatic, it's just how my brain operates.

So the next big challenge is sticking with it for real.  Now depressed, my learning curve is going to slow way down.  My patience with myself is going to dwindle away to nothing.  Simply because I don't respond to fun and humor the way most people do, it's going to feel a lot more like work - so I'm afraid of alienating my fellow students by being "the sad sack."  I have a rock solid track record in all of this, so I know exactly what to expect.  The power of positive thinking can take one only so far, especially when one is physically incapable of thinking positively.

I'm still determined to make this work.  Given my record with this stuff I'm not sure how it'll go, but I'm a stubborn little bastard if nothing else.  I would love some suggestions if anyone can offer any.


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## Stac3y (May 8, 2009)

I have longstanding problems with depression, also. I've noticed that when I am starting a downward slide, it can be more difficult to get myself to class or to the gym. Sometimes very difficult, and I have had nights when I've been in weepy mode and have worried that I would break down in the middle of class. So far, though, what's worked for me is to just get in there and start the class. Once the endorphins kick in from the workout, my mood lifts. When I have trouble doing that, I remind myself that I am not just an individual taking a class--I am PART of the class, and the others depend on me to be there--our learning is symbiotic, sort of. This is probably easier for me than it would be in your situation, though, since I assist in the kids' classes before my own class. The kids let me know quite clearly that they miss me when I'm not there. 

BTW, I haven't broken down in class (yet), but I've seen others do it, and no one holds it against them. The people I train with are great.

Even though you've had a lot of experience with this, and know how you react to similar situations, perhaps it might be helpful to try to convince yourself that this is a plateau rather than that the novelty has worn off. I guess I lean toward the behaviorist side of psych; I think that forcing actions can lead to appropriate feelings--acting "okay" helps you to feel "okay," if that makes sense. 

Hope some of this is helpful.


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## Flea (May 8, 2009)

> perhaps it might be helpful to try to convince yourself that this is a plateau rather than that the novelty has worn off.



I like that.  Thank you.

My main issue is what I call The Stoopids - I simply can't focus at all regardless of my emotional climate.  I've been known at my worst to call a friend to coach me through pouring myself a bowl of corn flakes.  Sometimes, there are just too many steps in the process.  :disgust:  

So that's what I'm up against here.  It's not the emotional content, it's that I just can't think.  Somebody comes at me, and I'll stare stupidly and let them grab me.  Then I'll just stand there.  Of course this isn't _every_ class, but it's enough that there's a definite trend.  It's not so much a safety liability as a humiliation.  I'm tired of sitting out, it's not what I come for.


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## teekin (May 8, 2009)

Ohhhhh Flea, I have gotten utterly lost in the middle of a sequence, can't remember past the first move,  some days do the mirror images( inverted) or have zip short term memory. If this is your life sweety, learn to laugh and see the irony in it and so will your partners. . (There are days I am quiet, and I hide inside myself too. The guys respect those days. )This isn't a dress rehearsal, this is IT. Life ain't going to change, your response to it can. In fact, it is the _only _thing that can.
lori
Keep up the good fight


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## Flea (May 29, 2009)

Maybe this is thread-related, maybe I just want to hear myself talk ... but what the hey.  Thread-following is voluntary, after all.

I'm taking a couple weeks off practice.  I really have to. I've had a huge flare-up, cycling up and down two or three times a day, within arm's reach of psychosis.   It's been excruciating.  I almost went to the ER a couple days ago, but had the fantastic luck to call a psych office and find a cancellation on the same day.  Now I'm shuffling around like a Medication Zombie.  Also no fun, but it beats the pants off the alternative.  Nancy Reagan, eat yer heart out.

I tried class on Thursday and lasted about half an hour before my brain shut down.  It was funny in a sad way - I must have had that "obliterated" look because everyone asked me "are you okay?" as they showed up.  Yeah, I've been sick ... After I begged off for the evening I stuck around to watch for a bit.  We practice outside in a city park, so I decided to refocus with some buddhist walking meditation.  Pretty quickly I noticed a praying mantis nymph and stopped to admire it.  For several minutes.  Nose to nose.  :lol:  If my classmates didn't notice anything weird about me before, they sure have by now!  (For the record, I've always loved insects, maybe not at such close range. But they're cool.)

I left a message with my teacher to ask him more about the holistic stuff.  I have no intention of giving up the pharmaceuticals, but every bit of knowledge helps.  I'll miss class, but there's no mania trigger like confrontation and I have no intention of relapsing.  Besides, if I can't focus and can't move, it defeats the purpose anyway.  Once my body adjusts to the new medication it'll be a different story.

Here's to a quick recovery ...


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## teekin (May 30, 2009)

Flea Darling, it is too bad we can't go to the same class. :lol2: Between the two of us we'd turn Drew gray inside a year . I feel your pain baby, I've played medication roulette as well trying to figure out the best way to live life safely but NOT as a zombie. I try to let go of what people think of me when I have a seizure, or am zoned out, or exhibit some of the other odd emotional behavior the medication and the seizures cause but I still feel a sense of shame and horror that I burdened someone else with that behavior. I haven't quit class (yet) ( joking Andrew), but I sure have wanted to. I know just how you feel.  Hang in there baby, it WILL get better, I promise.:cheers:
lori


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## Tensei85 (May 31, 2009)

Flea said:


> Heh ... .willpower don't enter into it.  My city had a marathon today, and I watched the parade go by for over an hour.  Why?  Strong bouncing women in shorts, that's why!!
> 
> :highfive:
> 
> ...



I do the same thing all the time!


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## Tensei85 (May 31, 2009)

Flea,

By the way wish you well and speedy recovery!


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