# Judo learning curve and Self Defence



## paddy77x (Oct 22, 2020)

I am a little new to the forum and I am happy to finally be part of it.

I have been thinking about starting a judo course in my city to improve my self defence skills. Last night I was attacked and my phone stolen. The fear of someone attack you unaware had a profound effect on me. I felt helpless and scared. I had been thinking about learning Judo for sometime now but I couldnt figure out if i wanted to study Judo or Brazilian Jujutsu. I live on a tiny island where everything is far away. After this experience and exhaustive research and speaking to other teachers I decided to learn Judo. Judo is convient because the school is like 15 mins away walking. The BJJ school also is interesting and I will add some BJJ skills in the future but with no car it will take me 2 hours+ All other arts for Self Defense are on the other islands which would take me 4 hours my plane to travel. So you can see it is unrealistic to fly 4 hours for a Krav Maga lesson. 

Now I know and respect that mastering Judo is a lifetime study but I am thinking about the time it will take to be able to defend yourself. I know some boxing school nearby which could help with the striking aspect. boxing is easy to learn but I need an art which can teach me to stay on my feet. Going to ground on the street is a no no. However judo is different and on certain forums people say it will take 6-10 years in order to be able to defend yourself with judo.

please be aware i am not interesting in learning judo to go around beating people up. and if this happened again i would be more likely to try and escape but this attack was done when i least expected and if i had some skills i could have at least thrown the guy or got out of the clinch long enough to run away.

Tell me your thoughts.


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## jobo (Oct 22, 2020)

paddy77x said:


> I am a little new to the forum and I am happy to finally be part of it.
> 
> I have been thinking about starting a judo course in my city to improve my self defence skills. Last night I was attacked and my phone stolen. The fear of someone attack you unaware had a profound effect on me. I felt helpless and scared. I had been thinking about learning Judo for sometime now but I couldnt figure out if i wanted to study Judo or Brazilian Jujutsu. I live on a tiny island where everything is far away. After this experience and exhaustive research and speaking to other teachers I decided to learn Judo. Judo is convient because the school is like 15 mins away walking. The BJJ school also is interesting and I will add some BJJ skills in the future but with no car it will take me 2 hours+ All other arts for Self Defense are on the other islands which would take me 4 hours my plane to travel. So you can see it is unrealistic to fly 4 hours for a Krav Maga lesson.
> 
> ...


well it depends on you and who is attacking you, 6 months should see you able to dump most people on the floor if your reasonably fit, or how ever long it takes you to get reasonably fit

try running, its hard to rob people who are going at 12 mph


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## Jeff_Beish (Oct 24, 2020)

paddy77x said:


> I am a little new to the forum and I am happy to finally be part of it.
> 
> I have been thinking about starting a judo course in my city to improve my self defence skills. Last night I was attacked and my phone stolen. The fear of someone attack you unaware had a profound effect on me. I felt helpless and scared. I had been thinking about learning Judo for sometime now but I couldnt figure out if i wanted to study Judo or Brazilian Jujutsu. I live on a tiny island where everything is far away. After this experience and exhaustive research and speaking to other teachers I decided to learn Judo. Judo is convient because the school is like 15 mins away walking. The BJJ school also is interesting and I will add some BJJ skills in the future but with no car it will take me 2 hours+ All other arts for Self Defense are on the other islands which would take me 4 hours my plane to travel. So you can see it is unrealistic to fly 4 hours for a Krav Maga lesson.
> 
> ...


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## Jeff_Beish (Oct 24, 2020)

Any active sport, such as boxing, wrestling, gymnastics and so can and will increase your skills in self defense.  Judo, karate or Brazilian Jujutsu are excellent methods.  Yes, once you start Judo it grows on you and becomes a life time endeavor.  Once you begin then the self-defense aspect becomes least of your interests.

I am biased towards Judo because I started in 1952 and continued until 1988 or so before giving it up.  Also, my karate training started in 1960 and I still did that until I was around 75 years old; because one can practice without a partner.  One reason I advocate Judo is that once you are involved you meet people with different skills and Judo practice often becomes more than just Judo techniques.  Not popular now is part of Judo in my days when we practiced Atemi waza or the art of striking.  Yes, it was apart of Judo practice back in the day.

Anyway, good luck with Judo and hopefully you find a good teacher (sensei) that will train you properly.


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## Hanzou (Oct 24, 2020)

Really depends on how much effort you put into it. I felt pretty confident after about a month of Judo classes because I was getting beat up on a daily basis, and was getting tougher as a result.


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## Jusroc (Oct 21, 2021)

I would say that Judo can be used effectively in Self defence against the non grappler / thrower
if you get good at even two or three of the take downs, as most people really do not have the experience to know what to do in order to defend against a skilled thrower / take down expert, especially on the street, where you can use the lack of referee's / rules etc. to your advantage.

Personally, i recommend to make use of grip breaks (whether damage less or damaging), and striking to help aid you in your throwing, as this, would make your use of Judo techniques much more like the original meaning of "Ju" (translation is gentle or flexible).

As if you break grip and use attemi waza (use strikes), you will come up against less or no resistance, which will allow you to either apply direct throw attacks, or use throws as counters against telegraphed attacks (as seen in trad Japanese Ju Jutsu, throws being applied in a gentle way that either takes advantages of the bio mechanics of the human body, or which uses the attackers own movement to aid the defender to throw without having to struggle... now that is gentle or to be flexible enough to be able to change in the movement that your opponent commits their energy to, and use it to throw your opponent, almost with out using any of your own force or energy).

Also remember that most normal folk will not be trained in falling safely (ukemi waza)
so if you do manage to throw someone, they will not likely find the tarmac or even the grass as kind to them as 40 mm or 50 mm dense foam Judo competition mats.

In fact, the word of caution here, is that you have to be careful as to how hard you throw someone on the street, as if a person takes a bad fall, they really can die. 

It is fairly common even for a drunkard to fall after to being punched even once, and to die, not because of the punch but because of the way they fall and perhaps were unlucky to fall and hit their head on the floor or curb.

There are some throws that can be easier to control.
Some which the BJJ guys are really good at.

O-Soto-Otoshi  -    Big Outer Drop       -      (ashi waza - leg sweeping technique)
O-Soto-Gari      -    Bit Outer Sweep    -      (ashi waza - leg sweeping technique)
O-Goshi            -    Hip Throw              -      (Koshi waza - hip throw technique)

I would probably recommend people to use the above to start, as all 3 of the above should leave the thrower in a position that the remain standing with their opponents flat on their back.

In case you come up against a really tricky opponent, who is a lot heavier and you cant sweep or throw,
the following take down is one of the easier to use against a heavier stronger opponent, as it uses gravity.

The only down side is that you end up on the floor at the end. doh. which if you are on the street and being attacked by multiple attackers, or there are your attackers' buddies around, or their is potential of getting wrongly arrested by the police (or bent police.... who knows in this day and age).

Then i would say that the following is worth considering learning. 

Tani-Otoshi       -     Valley Drop           -      (Yoko Sutemi Waza - side sacrifice throw technique)

I think the BJJ guys call this the rear takedown, or perhaps to be more descriptive, I would call it the rear ankle block sit down from the standing side clinch (or something... never would guess i grew up doing kenpo...lol.......  could be worse... i could start by saying stand 3 cm to 1 o clock of your opponent .. and so on)...

Anyway, those techniques are fairly standard i would say, and only the last results you on the ground.
And shouldn't result in too much of an impact for the thrower, that you will not be able to go on.

better to have a hand full of throws you can do well than know 41 takedown's but none of them that well.


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## letsplaygames (Oct 27, 2021)

Seems is the OP got jacked cause his self awareness wasn't up to spec.

Not many Martial Arts teach that.  Mastering self awareness and learning to run a 4 minute mile has more practicality in relation to self defense than a learning Judo or Jujitsu or Karate.

 If your serious about protecting yourself and others,  then add to the above "Tactical Firearm Training"

"But what if I don't want to carry a gun....?"    Then double down on the self awareness, and running or   suffer the consequences of not comprehending the effectual truth of self defense.

People believe a lot of BS fantasy when it comes to Martial arts... I see a lot of ignorance of _effectual truth_ Especially when it comes to hard core MA practitioners... wow do they believe some serious BS, drunk on MMA.  (even if highly trained ....  It's a crap shoot if your martial art will be applicable in a real self defense situation)


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## drop bear (Oct 28, 2021)

Paul Calugaru said:


> Seems is the OP got jacked cause his self awareness wasn't up to spec.
> 
> Not many Martial Arts teach that.  Mastering self awareness and learning to run a 4 minute mile has more practicality in relation to self defense than a learning Judo or Jujitsu or Karate.
> 
> ...



Knowing how to fight is going to help you regardless as to whether you carry a gun.


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## caped crusader (Oct 28, 2021)

Paul Calugaru said:


> Seems is the OP got jacked cause his self awareness wasn't up to spec.
> 
> Not many Martial Arts teach that.  Mastering self awareness and learning to run a 4 minute mile has more practicality in relation to self defense than a learning Judo or Jujitsu or Karate.
> 
> ...


Understand you to a point but I remember we went on field training in suffield Canada and as we took over the Guard room there was a Royal Scot (scottish infantry regiment) still in jail.
A Canadian cop pulled out his pistol, the Royal Scot took it off him and smacked him on the head with it.
Not saying this will happen in every Situation on the streets but it does depends on confidence too and also if the attacker is hesitant to really go the whole way.
Martial arts training is better than no training. 
Was the Jock in question a black Belt or bruce lee expert?...Nope just a crazy bastard


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## letsplaygames (Oct 28, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Knowing how to fight is going to help you regardless as to whether you carry a gun.


I honestly believe  “Knowing When To Fight and When Not too” is even more important 

Living near a major urban environment I’ve developed a cynical outlook on most MA. 

About once a week you see on the evening news the effectual truth  that learning to run a 4 min mile is better than most MA’s


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## caped crusader (Oct 28, 2021)

Paul Calugaru said:


> honestly believe “Knowing When To Fight and When Not too” is even more important


True dat...not being a coward. Any punk can stab you on the streets.


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## drop bear (Oct 28, 2021)

Paul Calugaru said:


> I honestly believe  “Knowing When To Fight and When Not too” is even more important
> 
> Living near a major urban environment I’ve developed a cynical outlook on most MA.
> 
> About once a week you see on the evening news the effectual truth  that learning to run a 4 min mile is better than most MA’s



Then also knowing when to move to somewhere nicer would factor in.


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## Jusroc (Oct 28, 2021)

Where I live is very low in terms of violent crime to be honest, very low amount of knife crime, and almost non existent gun crime.

I think that part of the reason why this is true is because we have one of the highest ratio of police per square mile or population, as well as CCTV covering the town centre, as well as being an island (so no where to run for criminals after committing a crime).

I also figure that some of the crime that does happen prob never gets put on the police's books
as the islands main business is being a tax haven for multi millionaires and even billionaires.

I personally think that people probably do get murdered on the island but its all kept hush hush,
so as not to draw negative publicity that gives that island a bad rep, which would be bad for business.

Ironically, American Kenpo, Krav Maga, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Muay Thai all very popular in the island.

I grew up training in American Kenpo, and as a kid was really into it.

Later on I looked back and realised that perhaps some aspects of American Kenpo didn't apply to Jersey,
and if you did defend yourself in the way that Kenpo is ideally realised, you would for sure be put in prison regardless as to whether who attacked first.

The old Kenpo Pre-emptive strike wouldn't go down well as a defence in court, nor would the general kenpo philosophy of keep on hitting the attacker until they stop moving.

Alas, American Kenpo was developed for the mean streets of Honolulu post ww2, during at time that Honolulu was used by the US military and not the sleepy backwater conservative and heavily policed tax haven of the small island that i live on.... 

If you are into American Kenpo though, its a good place, as there are several 1st generation students of GM Ed Parker Snr.


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