# how to get kias louder



## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

my kias are really bad if i kiaed no one would hear. give me some tips on how to improve kia


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## The Kai (Mar 18, 2005)

thepanjr said:
			
		

> my kias are really bad if i kiaed no one would hear. give me some tips on how to improve kia


Kiai the ability to yell. How old are you-how long you beeen in the arts, do you know how to breath yet?


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## TigerWoman (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm sure there is a volume switch somewhere...where is that manual?  TW


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## shesulsa (Mar 18, 2005)

ahem... :feedtroll


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

im 14 and i been for karate for 5 years really unworthy karateka fo about 4 years. Now im trying to catch up for those years of acting like afool. IN want a good kia. it hard. everyone in my class has a good kia. I nvr realized how bad im a t kiaing


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> I'm sure there is a volume switch somewhere...where is that manual? TW


That was no actually funny


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

why is my dot red now


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

im so confused tell me anyone help on kias too


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## bignick (Mar 18, 2005)

You're dot is red because people have been giving you bad reputation....

Most likely for posting all over without ever contributing to any discussion...


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

thanks now i have to improve on having a better reputation. If they gave me coments on karate i would gladly like to improve on that. THis going to be hard


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## thepanjr (Mar 18, 2005)

I must improve onmy reputaion then. THanks bignick. Man i strive for karate comments. PLz give me some tips on kias
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.THanks for pl, anyways


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## TigerWoman (Mar 18, 2005)

I didn't give you any bad rep.  Since you are 14...a male?  Breathe in deep, breathe out slow, do that a few times.  Now if you were yelling across the street so your little brother doesn't walk across, you would breathe in deep, and the air from your diaphragm would come up and out as you yell.  We yell AIHH!!!-so it is a sharp I hhh sound. But it is loud and sharp at first and slowly letting out sound with the air.  If your voice hasn't changed yet, it may be high still or squeak, or you may have changed to a lower voice now, which is better.  As you do forms, as you strike, practice...go out in the garage if you have one and practice yelling...maybe tell your Mom first what you are doing. Better? 

And look in your User CP,  I sent you a helpful PM.  TW


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## shesulsa (Mar 18, 2005)

you might also consider talking with your instructor about it.


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## Sam (Mar 19, 2005)

From a post I did on another site:
  What I will describe here is one veiwpoint on the kiai, so many will probably disagree. Although this is a long post, I'll try to keep it as short as possible by not going into intricate detail.

 There's a lot of myth circulating around a kiai. Part of this is from MA history where a physiological reaction is explained from a spiritual perspective. This is understandable as there is much about the internal workings of the body that were uknown at the time.

 Before talking about what makes a correct kiai and why, let's look at the physiological effects of a correct kiai. The effect on the practitioner is two fold. With a correct kiai, there will be a slight flush in the practitioner, the pulse rate elevates slightly, and in some cases, the hair on the back of the neck or even the arms will stand up. This is very similar to the reaction caused by an adrenaline rush. Some studies were performed that showed certain noises can produce an adrenaline rush in the body, regardless of the source. They also found deep regulated breathing allows you to "control" the adrenaline rush.

 Note the effects of breathing in the following quote:_ "As described by Jim Viceroy, a Chicago-area exercise physiologist and sports psychology consultant, the body works like a piston-stretching and contracting, storing energy and releasing it-while executing a volleyball slam.

 Says Viceroy: "Your body goes through a series of cocking all your joints.
 Your hips cocks and your trunk cocks, your elbow and your wrist-like rubber
 bands. You store elastic energy, you create the most tension possible in the
 body, and you increase the range of motion, including the chest. By taking a
 nice deep breath, you're presetting your muscles, stretching them. And so
 when you exhale, if you do it correctly, you'll get this whole marshaling of
 all those muscles at the same time, and *this generates enormous force*.
 Therefore you have more velocity, more power. 

 The effect is partially psychological; much like the kiai, the shout of
 the martial artist, it breaks down inhibitions and intimidates the opponent.
 Of course, the force generated by the kiai would propel a backhanded tennis
 ball over the fence."_

 Comment- earlier in the article, they explain that a "nice deep breath" means breathing with the diaphragm.

 Summary- The physiological/psychological effects of a kiai performed at the right time, help synchronize the movement with the kiai, firing the "cocked" muscles and creating a strong mental intent that breaks down inhibitions that would keep you from releasing your full strength.

 The rapid release of breath in the kiai, coupled with the increaed adrenaline results in a noticeable jump in power (increased strength from increased adrenaline is a well documented phenomena). In adddition, the forced deep inhalation also helps the practitioner utilize the adrenaline rush in a "fight" response rather than a flight response. One of the things kata practice does is aid in teaching you to control your breathing and link it to your movements.

 He did mention the effect on the opponent. Let's take a quick look at that. Short, loud noises create the fight or flight reaction. This happens in species other than man. Example of such noises would be the initial clap of thunder, a pot dropped on the floor behind you, someone sneaking up behind you and yelling 'boo' loudly.

 Many times this will cause a *momentary* hesitation before the flight reaction takes over. The same thing happens with a proper kiai. It will induce a temporary "flight response" in your opponent, which can cause a pause in their movement and thought processes. This gives you a great advantage. The only thing is, the more often you kiai against an opponent, the less effect it has.

 I use this as a training tool with my students. I have literally stopped them in their tracks during ippon on either their attack or counter. I work with them and tell them to learn to continue in spite of the kiai. They get better over time, although a kiai at an unexpected moment can still freeze them. You can see it rob power from a more advanced student's technique when delivered unexpectedly. (Stand behind them and kiai).

 The fact that a strong kiai breaks down inhibitions can be seen when teaching people to kiai. Hence- the teaching that a strong kiai= a strong fighting spirit. A beginners initial kiais are weak and ineffective. Making them stand and practice their kiai can often induce giggles and smiles in beginners. Ask them why and they'll say "it just seems funny". When they can get past the social conditioning (don't yell or raise your voice) and really cut loose with a good kiai, this mentally sets them up for delivering full power techniques. I get a chuckle when I see a beginner produce their first good kiai and actually startle themselves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now onto a proper kiai-

 First- the air should be forced out using the *diaphragm*

 Second- it should be SHORT. No Bruce Lee drawn out waahhh's, eeee's and oooohhh's. (sorry BL fans, but that was for the movies).

 Third- it should be LOUD

 Fourth- the sound should be produced without any consonants. The reason for this is making a consonant sound like the 'k' in kiai restricts the breathing and slows down the expulsion of air

 Fifth- do NOT exhale 100% of yoru air. Anyone that's been hit with no air in their lungs will tell you it's worse than being hit with your lungs full. Keep 10-15% of your air.

 Think of your kiai as a "Clap of thunder" or the sound of a gunshot. It should crack the silence like a whip.


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## thepanjr (Mar 19, 2005)

allready did talk to my instructor. he told me it will come out by my self. it really hard for my kias to get loud. If i did get my kias really good then i have to some way add them into the katas. well thanks everyone fo r ure help. Oh no if i practice out side ppl will look and inside i would be bothering the downstairs. Hey i can practice in the dojo. A white belt would scare himself with a good kia.I am not surewhat will happen when i make a good kia. THanks agian. Ya
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i on to training. I go to the dojo today. C ya


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## Matt Stone (Mar 19, 2005)

thepanjr said:
			
		

> allready did talk to my instructor. he told me it will come out by my self.



This leads me to think that he doesn't really know what he's talking about...  Certainly the vocalized sound resulting from a _kiai_ (note the spelling) is unique to most individuals (you don't actually *say* "kiai" when executing a kiai, nor do you *say* anything else), but there are guidelines as outlined upthread...



> it really hard for my kias to get loud.



They don't have to be loud.  For that matter, they don't have to have sound at all...  When you begin working on kiai, at first they are loudly vocalized shouts.  Then they become loud exhalations.  Eventually they quiet down to the point of inaudibility.  In time, they are silent and expressed in different ways.  Don't worry about loud, worry about "right."



> If i did get my kias really good then i have to some way add them into the katas.



Kiai have their place in kata.  Don't just slip them in wherever you like.  If the kata is taught without kiai, ask your instructor where they are supposed to go.  If he doesn't teach kata with kiai, or doesn't know where they go, slipping them in wherever you like isn't really appropriate.  You should search elsewhere for the information...



> Oh no if i practice out side ppl will look and inside i would be bothering the downstairs. Hey i can practice in the dojo. A white belt would scare himself with a good kia.I am not surewhat will happen when i make a good kia. THanks agian. i on to training. I go to the dojo today. C ya



If you are only 14, in addition to your martial arts training, spend a little time on your spelling and grammar.  When expressing your thoughts in written form, the perception the reader has of the writer is directly linked to the manner in which the writer presents his/her thoughts.  Yours are barely intelligible, and had questions like this not presented themselves repeatedly over the years, I suspect most readers would be hard pressed to understand what you were asking about in the first place.

There is an old samurai saying "Pen and sword in accord," "_bun bu ichi_" in Japanese...  It implies that martial and non-martial training are equally important for the development of a warrior.


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## thepanjr (Mar 19, 2005)

ya my grammer and reading is like a blur. I can't even read my own writing


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## Bammx2 (Mar 19, 2005)

What a coincidence!

When I was about your age,I found this really kool thing called a DIAPHRAGM.
 It's right below your lungs.
Go out into a field,empy room...some place where you won't attract attention.....and YELL AS HARD AND AS LOUD AS YOU CAN!!!!!
or yell into a pillow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Put your hand on you chest,about 3-4 inches below your breastbone.
You will feel it tighten up.That's your diaphragm.
 You'll find that what you are doing now is yelling though your lungs.
When you do what I said...you will feel it a little lower and that's where you want to concentrate your breathing at.
 I didn't learn how to "kia" from any of my instructors....I learned it from a singing coach who specialised in opera!
It will take a little bit of practice...about 10 minutes or so, to get the feeling..then you just work it from there.
 We used to call the air in the diaphragm "spare air". With more practice,you can actually hold air in your diaphragm and still breath through your lungs.But it only lasts for so long.
 Sounds rediculous? Go ask an opera singer...


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## Matt Stone (Mar 19, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> When I was about your age,I found this really kool thing called a DIAPHRAGM.



I hope you washed your hands after touching it...



> It's right below your lungs.



Oh, that one...



> Go out into a field,empy room...some place where you won't attract attention.....and YELL AS HARD AND AS LOUD AS YOU CAN!!!!!



Except yelling is still a vocalization, at a significantly louder level, but a vocalization just the same...  If you can feel the _kiai_ in your throat, and your voice is hoarse afterwards, you are doing it incorrectly.



> You'll find that what you are doing now is yelling though your lungs.



You can't "yell through your lungs."  With either vocalization or exhalation, the lungs are the storehouse for air that is projected through the esophogus.  The difference is whether the larynx is relaxed or tightened; one allows for free passage of air, the other produces vocalized sounds.



> I didn't learn how to "kia" from any of my instructors....I learned it from a singing coach who specialised in opera!



The breathing techniques of singing and martial arts _do_ share quite a bit in common.



> We used to call the air in the diaphragm "spare air". With more practice,you can actually hold air in your diaphragm and still breath through your lungs.But it only lasts for so long.



You do not store, hold, or otherwise contain air in the diaphragm.  The diaphragm is a muscle below the pneumothoracic cavity that, when contracted, produces a vacuum in the lungs which causes inspiration (inhaling).  When the diaphragm relaxes, the natural tension of the intercostal (between the rib) muscles produces pressure that "squeezes" the air out of the lungs producing expiration (exhaling).

What you are referring to is learning how to better manage exhalation while increasing lung capacity through exercise.  Right idea, wrong explanation.



			
				thepanjr said:
			
		

> ya my grammer and reading is like a blur. I can't even read my own writing



The wonderful thing is, like your martial arts skills and understanding, you can change this.  Accepting mediocrity is unbecoming to a martial artist.  If better is attainable, good is insufficient.  Do not accept your shortcomings in written communication.  Learn to write better, learn to increase your handwriting skills, and increase your vocabulary.  There really is no excuse for someone to be barely fluent in their native language, especially since it is the one single academic skill we use every single day...


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## Bammx2 (Mar 19, 2005)

Gee,thanks for clearing that up.
Now...any suggestions on how to answer the original question?

 Side bar to everyone........
I have read a few posts by Penjr and I have seen a lot of replies about his grammar.
 I think he knows this already and appreciates some of the input,but that should be put aside now and people should concentrate on helping him find the info he needs.
 It's a sore spot for me since DYSLEXIA runs rampant through my family.
Grammar does NOT make you a better martial artist,your heart does.

Mr.Stone,this was not a jab at just you.
 I totally respect what you had to say and I am keeping the info for future refference...and so I can translate it into more laymans terms.

 Thank you again
:asian:


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## Matt Stone (Mar 19, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Gee,thanks for clearing that up.
> Now...any suggestions on how to answer the original question?



Specific guidance?  No.  That is for Penjr to take up with his instructor.  If he is as junior a student as it would seem, whether his instructor knows what he is doing or not, it is an issue for Penjr to approach through his system's methods.  For me, or anyone else for that matter, to provide direction may very well go completely against the grain of the instruction Penjr's teacher is attempting to provide.

It may well be that the system Penjr studies simply doesn't go deeply into the subject beyond "yell 'kiai' at them."  That would be highly unfortunate, but not beyond believability (I've seen worse).

Having said that, should Penjr study a while longer and still find that the topic is absent from his teacher's instruction, then Penjr should perhaps reconsider the issue and seek out another teacher from whom to obtain the information.  Anything discovered on the internet is going to be too superficial to fully communicate the knowledge Penjr would be seeking.



> Grammar does NOT make you a better martial artist,your heart does.



Perhaps, however allowing an area of one's self to remain undeveloped, or worse yet accepting that mediocre performance is acceptable, speaks toward the martial artist's overall approach to life.  If training in martial arts is a lifelong pursuit of excellence, an effort to eliminate the weaknesses within one's self, then isn't eliminating other areas of weakness just as much a part of training?



> Mr.Stone,this was not a jab at just you.
> I totally respect what you had to say and I am keeping the info for future refference...and so I can translate it into more laymans terms.



I didn't take it as a jab, so no worries.  Just remember that Buddha said:

"Today is victory over lesser men.  Tomorrow is victory over my self."

Confucius said:

"I will not be concerned with other men not knowing me.  I will be concerned, however, with my own shortcomings."


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## thepanjr (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks for all that info on kiaing. Ill practice my kias. If i get better at this i could shock my cousin with the kia.


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## thepanjr (Mar 20, 2005)

Is the diaphram below the bellybutton. I think so but not sure> do i push air through the diaphram like poke it. how will that make a good kia im so confused. Oh ya nice idea yell at the pillow. I don't know why but some you people are funny. My classes are not serious they have fun. The way adults talk make me laugh. eEvery line has some mature funny thing. Scream on the back of students. So far i laugh about couple of times. One thing people said i saw a forum and it made me laugh for two days.


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## Bammx2 (Mar 20, 2005)

Hey panjr....

Your diaphragm is just below your breastbone,the hard part where the ribs meet in the middle of your chest.
 Follow that bone down till it stops.your diaphragm is right in that area.
 If you ever get punced there hard enough....you'll know it for sure!
It will just knock the wind out of you,but you'll never forget it


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## shesulsa (Mar 21, 2005)

The diaphragm is a large muscle that pulls your lungs open (inhalation) thus expanding tham and pushes back upward to partially deflate them (exhalation).  It is a very large muscle.  If you've ever done a bellyflop in a pool or fallen on your stomach or taken a serious punch in the stomach and "got the wind knocked out of you," that muscle spasmed, decreasing your ability to inhale properly and the impact from a solid punch there can leave you feeling as though you've got a rock in your gut for a few days.

 So when you kiai, everyone is saying that this muscle should contract - you'll feel a tightening of that muscle (not just your abs).  You can test this by pushing into your abdomen a little with a couple of fingers together - carefully and not too deeply.

 Good luck!


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## The Kai (Mar 21, 2005)

Rent out "Scent of a Women" spend the afternoon imatating Al pacino


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## thepanjr (Apr 8, 2005)

Oh i went to a tournament and got third place but i forgot the kias. My kia are bit louder than before but in front of black belts and other students i was  nervous. Still i got third and i know i could have done better if my kias are loud. I think i might get promoted. i know enough kata(form or drill). Ill be practicing my kias. One day it will be loud to shock people. Thank you all the people who helped me and tried to help me. I wont be on for a long time because ill be training. Also learning new katas. And once agian thank you for your help it helped me alot and the reputation points are ceared. No more unthought replies. I think. Humans do make mistakes once awhile, it is in their nature to do so.


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## TigerWoman (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm glad you had a good tournament experience.  Third place is a winner.  You all are winners for going and trying to get better!  Now you know how much you have to practice and eventually your kata and kiaps too will be better.  Enjoy learning--it is a journey of awakening and discovery about yourself and you have just begun!  TW


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## RRouuselot (Apr 9, 2005)

thepanjr said:
			
		

> 1)Oh i went to a tournament and got third place but i forgot the kias.
> 
> 2)My kia are bit louder than before but in front of black belts and other students i was nervous.
> 
> ...


     1)Third place is pretty good. 

 2)Why? Black Belts are people too. Just think of them as people that used to be white belts and it might help you not be so nervous in front of them. Nobody becomes a black belt without screwing up a few times.



 3)Hopefully the criteria for success in the tournament didnt rest on whether your kiai were loud enough.that would be a poor evaluating factor. 

 4)Why? Is that important or something? The sole purpose of doing Kiai isnt to shock people, nor is there some sort of mystical voodoo-esque type magic to it that some jokers call kiaijutsu. There are other more important uses for kiai in kata than just scaring the crap out of someone. Physically the muscles in the abdomen contract when doing kiai, this is said to concentrate more force into the technique, one translation of kiai is meeting/fusing of ki. In this sense the word ki is referring to the mental spirit sort of ki that is used in concentration (you are fusing body and mind) when focusing on a particular effort and not the airy-fairy hocus-pocus kind of childish ki people think of after watching too many chop-socky kung fu movies.


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## hwarang (May 28, 2005)

you should try yelling from low in your stomach, much like a singer sings.. when you kiap/giyap whatever you callit, you should see your tangent(spot just below your belly button, your center) should jump


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## Croxley (Jul 6, 2005)

Maybe your underpants are too tight :idunno:


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## bobster_ice (Dec 2, 2005)

kias!!! do it with style man, shout it loud but not too loud, wat belt r you?


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## bobster_ice (Dec 2, 2005)

hey croxley, maybe ur rite


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 13, 2005)

I agree with Hwarang, you should find the kia deep inside, force it out diaphragmatically.  It's the shout of the spirit, after all; it should be heard clearly.


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## peter (Dec 14, 2005)

Hi All

A great post and one that is both interesting and amusing.

I think that this is something that many martial artists have experienced.  Initially, the kiai tends to makes us all very self-conscious.  At this level, we tend to hold back most of it.  In time the use of the kiai is more clearly understood and it becomes less of a conscious effort.

Correct, it is an expression, or release, of the fighting spirit of the Karate-ka.  There are many other benefits, such as:
1.  Scare the opponent  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



2.  Help to control your fears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



3.  Rapidly expell air so that you don't become winded if hit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



4.  Can help to draw attention to a street confrontation

Overall, it can take years to develop and ultimately, it needs to be part of your technique and not separate from it.  With correct application, the more focus and effort that you apply to all techniques, the louder the kiai will become.  Usually best when the body is close to fatique and you need to regain focus.  Set a target of, say 1000 reverse punches and you will need that kiai to get through the training session.

Finally, find a quite field, mountain or park.  Go there regularly and work the kiai WITH your techniques.  It will get better and you will become less aware of it.

Good luck in your training

Best regards

Peter

Peter Lewis - 5th Dan
www.yuli-romo.com
www.bakbakan.com


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## kicksindabank (May 12, 2006)

Well as said before in this post, how are your breathing techniques? When you are doing your kata do you keep a steady flow of breathing? These are what you need to focus on more. Granted the kia's are great, but if you breating is not focus, then your kia's are in vain.

Kia's are just a point when all of your energy come out in one point in the kata (please correct me if I am wrong.)


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## AHC9882 (Jun 20, 2006)

i also have trouble yelling out kia cause, im naturally quiet, and very shy.   but the info i've read so far might help me.    thanks everyone:asian:


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## karateka (Jul 19, 2006)

thepanjr said:
			
		

> my kias are really bad if i kiaed no one would hear. give me some tips on how to improve kia


 

most begginers think of kia as a loud noise.


lets look at the word kia, it composes of the work KI which is spiritual energy , lifeforce, essence, mojo or whatever welse you choose to call it.

according to japanese tradition the spirit is strong and the abdomen (this plays a central role in SEPPUKU (google is your friend) ). when you shout, try to shout from your hara, and not your lungs. this kind of kia has practical uses as well as "cosmetic". it will make your techniques higher energy and more efficient.

practice that and try to sync your kia with your moves for optimum results.


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