# Mom Charged For Sending Child To Better School



## MJS (Apr 25, 2011)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...-mom-who-sent-son-to-a-better-school-district




> Education activists are rallying around a homeless woman who may face jail time for enrolling her son in kindergarten under a friend's address. Supporters say the woman's story is yet another dismaying example of inequality in the U.S. education system.
> Tanya McDowell, a homeless single mother from Bridgeport, is charged with first-degree larceny and conspiracy to commit first-degree larceny for signing up her 5-year-old son to attend nearby Norwalk schools under the address of a friend. (Her son went to the school for four months. Her friend has been evicted from public housing for letting McDowell use her address.) McDowell may face up to 20 years in prison and a $15,000 fine if convicted.


 
Thoughts?


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## Carol (Apr 25, 2011)

She's homeless. Its not like she can legally be tied to the Bridgeport school system.



> McDowell, who used to work in food services, told the Stamford Advocate she occasionally stayed  in a Norwalk homeless shelter--but she didn't register there, which  would have made her son eligible to attend the school. "I had no idea  whatsoever that if you enroll your child in another school district, it  becomes a crime," the 33-year-old told the paper.



So have her register at the Norwalk shelter and be done with it.  Save the jail space for violent offenders.


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2011)

Well, IMO, I can see the school system complaining about being in one area, and sending your kid to another, in addition to using someone elses address.  But the fine and the jail time....IMO, seems a bit over the top.  Unless someone comes up with a good argument for that, I think its a bit much.


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## Archangel M (Apr 25, 2011)

Should be a civil issue, not a criminal one.


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## Steve (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't know... sounds fishy to me.  If everything is as stated, and she's just a mom looking to send her 5 year old to a public school in a particular school district, I think this is overkill.  Charging her for any kind of criminal act seems unwarranted.


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## Carol (Apr 25, 2011)

MJS said:


> Well, IMO, I can see the school system complaining about being in one area, and sending your kid to another, in addition to using someone elses address.  But the fine and the jail time....IMO, seems a bit over the top.  Unless someone comes up with a good argument for that, I think its a bit much.



Sure, I can see that...but her being homeless, I'm not sure if she is really "in" one area consistently (aren't Bridgeport and Norwalk side by side...or am I getting confused?)

The friend in Norwalk was kicked out of her public housing unit over the incident.  So now there are *two *homeless families instead of one, and one of them was hit with jail and a fine.

Makes a helluva good argument for the voucher system, eh?


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2011)

Carol said:


> Sure, I can see that...but her being homeless, I'm not sure if she is really "in" one area consistently (aren't Bridgeport and Norwalk side by side...or am I getting confused?)
> 
> The friend in Norwalk was kicked out of her public housing unit over the incident. So now there are *two *homeless families instead of one, and one of them was hit with jail and a fine.
> 
> Makes a helluva good argument for the voucher system, eh?


 
According to mapquest, they're about 16min apart.  I'm going to ask this next question, because I honestly dont know.  Is there really that much of a difference in the way kids are taught, from school to school?  Is it really the school, or is it that the school is filled with people who just have no desire to learn?


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## Steve (Apr 25, 2011)

If they're in the same district, they likely teach basically the same curriculum.  It's possible that there is a program that the district can only fund at one school... but chances are that the average student wouldn't see much difference from one school to the other.

Now, if they're in different school districts, they could be radically different.


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## MJS (Apr 25, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> If they're in the same district, they likely teach basically the same curriculum. It's possible that there is a program that the district can only fund at one school... but chances are that the average student wouldn't see much difference from one school to the other.
> 
> Now, if they're in different school districts, they could be radically different.


 
I have no idea if they're in the same dist. or not.  2 different cities.  So, what makes them that different?  Is it just the programs offered, the way the teachers teach, etc?


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## MA-Caver (Apr 25, 2011)

A child's education is at stake... and people want to nit-pick because a woman lied so that her child can get the best education she can find for them... right homeless people should be uneducated and useless.


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## billc (Apr 25, 2011)

I can't wait till they have total control of our healthcare system.  they do everything else so well.


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## billc (Apr 25, 2011)

Remember when Obama and our senator here in Illinois, Dick durbin shut down the voucher program that let poor kids go to the same school as Obama's daughters.  That was another great moment in democrat compassion for the education of poor children.  Fortunately I heard the program was reinstated with the new republican budget deal.


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## CoryKS (Apr 26, 2011)

If she's homeless, how did they determine that the child was supposed to go to a Bridgeport school?


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## granfire (Apr 26, 2011)

MJS said:


> I have no idea if they're in the same dist. or not.  2 different cities.  So, what makes them that different?  Is it just the programs offered, the way the teachers teach, etc?




Yes, it can make a HUGE difference. 

During my Demo Team days (who ever could get off work to visit the elementary schools  ) I saw pretty much all the schools in the city. There was a huge difference in the facilities from one to the other. Usually depending on the demography. And parents have been known to 'borrow' addresses to avoid one school in favor of another or demanding a (legal) switch from one to the other.
I personally don't get it why it's a big deal if they don't have to send the buss to the other location and pick the child up. But I am thinking like a normal person, not a burocrat.


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## Steve (Apr 26, 2011)

It's about money, people.  Number of students affects class sizes, books, materials, access to extra curricular activities, school lunches and the like.

I'm not in favor of what happened here.  Criminal charges in this case seems completely over the top.

BUT.  I live in a community where we have higher property taxes, and where we routinely vote to approve levies for education.  I have complained about some of the bone headed things that my school board does, but overall, I am happy with the level of education that my kids receive.  

Schools are funded by tax dollars collected at EVERY level of government, and at a local level I wouldn't want my money spent to educate kids who don't actually live in my community.  I think that's a reasonable position to take.  Particularly if the community adjacent to mine pays lower property taxes, a lower sales tax and routinely votes down levies for education.

Education is a complicated subject. Some people in this thread who have in the past railed against public education and been cold hearted when anyone suggests breaking the cycle of poverty are now arguing in favor of accessible education for everyone.   

Honestly, I don't know where I fall on this one.  I think the child needs an education.  But when we distill the issue to its root, the issue of faking residence to have access to schools, that's dishonest, and if done to excess can disadvantage the kids who really do live in that district.


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## ganglian (Apr 26, 2011)

billcihak said:


> I can't wait till they have total control of our healthcare system. they do everything else so well.


 

how was that relevant to the subject? It wasnt?


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 26, 2011)

ganglian said:


> how was that relevant to the subject? It wasnt?


 
Do you just like riding Billicihaks *** or what? It does have to do with the subject, just because your looking to give someone a hard time doesn't mean its warranted. At least he added to the conversation.

as far as the actual subject goes, who cares our school system sucks as it is.
this is purely about the money.
and Its not the conservatives that are making a fuss about this woman moving her kid somewhere else.
I say bring the whole thing down and let the parents choose where to take their kids.


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## Steve (Apr 26, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> as far as the actual subject goes, who cares our school system sucks as it is.


Maybe yours does.  Mine doesn't.   It's not perfect, but it's better than the schools I attended as a kid.  My 8th grade daughter's 2 years ahead in math, set to take the SATs this Summer.  The school grades kids on both academic performance and employability.  What a great tool for discussions with my son about "the real world."  There's virtually no truancy in my school district (whereas I skipped class at least one full day each week in high school.)

Point is, public education is important and in many places in the country it is working.  

As with any complicated subject, can it be done better?  Sure.  Can we hold our teachers to a higher standard?  Absolutely, but we can also pay them according to their commitment and their relative importance to our society.  I put educators right up there with firefighters, soldiers and police officers as being crucial to society.

Edit:  Just... can you... please... never mention anyone riding Billicihak's *** again.  A picture flashed in my head of a young Capt. Kirk in a compromising position with a prominent, closeted gay Republican politician.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Maybe yours does. Mine doesn't. It's not perfect, but it's better than the schools I attended as a kid. My 8th grade daughter's 2 years ahead in math, set to take the SATs this Summer. The school grades kids on both academic performance and employability. What a great tool for discussions with my son about "the real world." There's virtually no truancy in my school district (whereas I skipped class at least one full day each week in high school.)
> 
> Point is, public education is important and in many places in the country it is working.
> 
> ...


 
I imagine more of your success if you and your wife setting the bar and working with your kids.
I guess my question is what is your schools graduation rate, what is the drop out rate, what is the schools placement in the local, state, and national levels, and how many of the graduates are going on to college, or better.

If it is really good then maybe the rest of the country needs to look at what you guys are doing up there.


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## granfire (Apr 26, 2011)

> Edit: Just... can you... please... never mention anyone riding Billicihak's *** again. A picture flashed in my head of a young Capt. Kirk in a compromising position with a prominent, closeted gay Republican politician.




:lfao:


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## billc (Apr 26, 2011)

Actually, they can't be held to a higher standard and they can't be paid according to their committment, that would violate the union contract.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 26, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Edit:  Just... can you... please... never mention anyone riding Billicihak's *** again.  A picture flashed in my head of a young Capt. Kirk in a compromising position with a prominent, closeted gay Republican politician.








Entry made by Science Officer Spock.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 26, 2011)

Nothing wrong with wanting your kids to get an education.
Committing fraud however to do so is a crime, last I heard.
You can also argue 'theft of services'.


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## granfire (Apr 26, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Nothing wrong with wanting your kids to get an education.
> Committing fraud however to do so is a crime, last I heard.
> You can also argue 'theft of services'.




Well, the kid is eligible for school... so those services were not stolen.

And since the mother was homeless...

It is a rather odd scenario.


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## MJS (Apr 26, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> A child's education is at stake... and people want to nit-pick because a woman lied so that her child can get the best education she can find for them... right homeless people should be uneducated and useless.


 
I agree....an education is VERY important.  IMO, without at the least, a HS diploma/GED, you're probably going to be very limited as to what you can do for a living.  But, to play devils advocate for a moment...if we were to allow people to pick and choose where their kid(s) go to school, just because one school is supposedly better than another, what do we then do about over crowding?  You could have 1 school with 10 kids in it, and another with hundreds.


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## billc (Apr 26, 2011)

Well, if you have a voucher program where the money follows the kids, the good school with a hundred kids can always build an addition, and while they are waiting for it to be built they could rent out space somewhere or bring in mobile offices.  The school with the 10 kids is doing something wrong and would eventually be closed due to lack of money.  Then those 10 kids can take their voucher money to a good school.  But once again, the chances that kids can be freed from bad schools is slim because the unions fight tooth and nail against any parental choice options.


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## ganglian (Apr 26, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> Do you just like riding Billicihaks *** or what? It does have to do with the subject, just because your looking to give someone a hard time doesn't mean its warranted. At least he added to the conversation.
> 
> as far as the actual subject goes, who cares our school system sucks as it is.
> this is purely about the money.
> ...




the thread to me is subject specific, and if he can express his need to spread the conservative manifesto I have every right to express my irritation it. Is this a martial arts forum or free republic?


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## billc (Apr 26, 2011)

Actually ganglian, it is the study, the political topics thread. apparently they let you post political topics here. If you want to post on martial arts topics they have over 90 other threads where you can post.  The same jokers who have screwed up the school systems around the country are the ones who want to screw up our healthcare even worse than it is now.


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## ganglian (Apr 26, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Actually ganglian, it is the study, the political topics thread. apparently they let you post political topics here. If you want to post on martial arts topics they have over 90 other threads where you can post.  The same jokers who have screwed up the school systems around the country are the ones who want to screw up our healthcare even worse than it is now.




whatever, other forums would call this a derail of the thread, it was about Education, NOT Healthcare, just saying


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## Carol (Apr 26, 2011)

There's even more to it than the issue of government control.

Bridgeport, CT is possibly America's poster child for a city with issues.  Over 95 percent of the children in the Bridgeport public schools are eligible for free or reduced lunch. Their property tax rate is by far the highest in the nation.   

$65.00 per thousand is bloody ridiculous!  I have high property taxes ... but my state has no income or sales tax, so its the homeowners that support the state's revenue.  Even still, I pay one-third what Bridgeport homeowners do...and CT has both income and sales taxes.

The woman that sent her kid to Norwalk was jailed and fined.  The woman in Norwalk whose address was used was kicked out of her Housing Authority home.  I can't help but think that something was driving this action.   Bridgeport and Norwalk are very diverse cities, I doubt that racism was at play.  Is this Norwalk telling Bridgeport "We know you're broke...and broken.  Don't bring your problems here" ?


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## CoryKS (Apr 26, 2011)

Kinda makes you wonder how bad Bridgeport must be if the district with the housing projects has the "good schools".


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## jks9199 (Apr 26, 2011)

Folks, rather than trying to decide among yourselves about whether the thread is drifting too far, how about making use of the Report to Moderator button?  That way, we'll look at it, and take appropriate actions.  Let's be real -- there are quite a few posts every day, in lots of threads, and the staff hereabouts have lives outside of MT.  (Or at least we pretend we do!)


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## Carol (Apr 26, 2011)

CoryKS said:


> Kinda makes you wonder how bad Bridgeport must be if the district with the housing projects has the "good schools".



Population in July 2009: 83,802
Estimated median household income in 2009: $72,752 (it was $59,839 in 2000)

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Norwalk-Connecticut.html#ixzz1KgigsLUB










Population in July 2009: 137,298
Estimated median household income in 2009: $39,949 (it was $34,658 in 2000)

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Bridgeport-Connecticut.html#ixzz1Kgio4a6n


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## Steve (Apr 26, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Actually, they can't be held to a higher standard and they can't be paid according to their committment, that would violate the union contract.


That's partisan BS.  Things can be done, but it would first take both labor and management to come to the table and bargain in good faith.  Painting either side as the villain is just political partisanship and if solving the problem is the goal, pointing fingers is unproductive.

Carol, bridgeport sounds like a pretty rough place.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 27, 2011)

Now if this were me... because I'm just a bastard like that...

I'd have some mail delivered to my friend's place.  Take it to the DMV and register my change of address with them and the post office.

"Well, gosh, I was homeless, until my friend took me in.  I'm sorry I forgot to register my Change of address, that's what caused this whole mess, but as you can see by my drivers licence and postal records, this has been rectified..."


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Well, if you have a voucher program where the money follows the kids, the good school with a hundred kids can always build an addition, and while they are waiting for it to be built they could rent out space somewhere or bring in mobile offices. The school with the 10 kids is doing something wrong and would eventually be closed due to lack of money. Then those 10 kids can take their voucher money to a good school. But once again, the chances that kids can be freed from bad schools is slim because the unions fight tooth and nail against any parental choice options.


 

And I'd imagine it'd only be a matter of time, before the public complains that their taxes will rise, parents will complain, and rightfully so IMO, that their kids are overcrowded, not getting a good education, etc.  Its a trickle-down effect.  That said, I say, stay in your own area.  IMO, I find it hard to believe that 100% of the blame lies on the school.  No, instead, I can't help but to think that some, no wait, a good portion of this has to do with kids not applying themselves.  Once again, parents want to shift blame for their kids sucking *** in school, so they assume going to a 'better' school, will change that.  Umm...not if the kids dont wanna apply themselves.


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2011)

ganglian said:


> the thread to me is subject specific, and if he can express his need to spread the conservative manifesto I have every right to express my irritation it. Is this a martial arts forum or free republic?


 
That is correct. The topic is about the school system, not healthcare or anything else.  I read his post as a simple reference, to the govt. taking over that so eventually......

But in any case, I was intending on talking about the school system.


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## punisher73 (Apr 27, 2011)

I realize that schools are VERY diverse around the country and this view may not apply to all schools around the country.

But, where I live they have "school of choice".  You can send your child to any school in the county if there is space available.  One of the larger schools, does very poorly on testing scores and has the highest dropout rate among all the other schools.  BUT, they actually have the most opportunities available than any of the other local schools as far as sports and education (one other school can match them with programs etc).  In the past couple of years they have lost over 800 students to school of choice.  Their rates are even worse than before and no one wants their kid to go to school there.

The problem for everyone else is that all of the problems that this school used to have are now spreading to the other schools because the problem kids at this school are now being moved to the other schools.  

I think this is one of the cruxes of the matter.  What do you do with children/young adults that have no desire to be in school and could care less and only want to cause problems while they are there?  

Not sure if this is the case or not, but many times this is one of the roots to this type of scenario.


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2011)

punisher73 said:


> I realize that schools are VERY diverse around the country and this view may not apply to all schools around the country.
> 
> But, where I live they have "school of choice". You can send your child to any school in the county if there is space available. One of the larger schools, does very poorly on testing scores and has the highest dropout rate among all the other schools. BUT, they actually have the most opportunities available than any of the other local schools as far as sports and education (one other school can match them with programs etc). In the past couple of years they have lost over 800 students to school of choice. Their rates are even worse than before and no one wants their kid to go to school there.


 
Thats an interesting concept.  I've never heard of that before.  Is this something thats on a first come/first serve basis, do you have to apply to get selected, is it a lottery type drawing, etc?  



> The problem for everyone else is that all of the problems that this school used to have are now spreading to the other schools because the problem kids at this school are now being moved to the other schools.


 
Ahh....you hit the nail on the head with this.  IMO, this is probably the #1 reason why people who live in a more 'upscale' area, cringe, when kids from a larger city, start being bussed in.



> I think this is one of the cruxes of the matter. What do you do with children/young adults that have no desire to be in school and could care less and only want to cause problems while they are there?
> 
> Not sure if this is the case or not, but many times this is one of the roots to this type of scenario.


 
I dont know if this is the case here either.  What to do with the kids who could care less?  IIRC, we've had that discussion on here a while back.  Personally, I say part of the blame is on the parents.  Interestingly enough, CT is trying to pass a bill that raises the dropout age to 18 instead of 16.  As I've said before, IMHO, getting a HS diploma is crucial.  Without that, unless you wanna sling burgers or work a min. wage job, ya gotta get that diploma.  Dont wanna go to college?  Fine.  But at least muster enough effort to finish 12yrs of school.


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## punisher73 (Apr 27, 2011)

MJS said:


> Thats an interesting concept. I've never heard of that before. Is this something thats on a first come/first serve basis, do you have to apply to get selected, is it a lottery type drawing, etc?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
MI recently changed the age from 16 to 18 as well.  They are phasing it in right now, basically so the kids who are in HS now will be exempt and the 8th graders entering high school next year will be the first group under the law.  This allows this to get support programs in place etc.

The school of choice depends on the grade and how many are trying to get in.  For example, the school district I mentioned loses ALOT of students between 5th and 6th grades when the kids switch from their more local elementary schools to the bigger junior high schools.  I know most schools don't have a waiting list for other grades, but for 6th there are lot of kids trying for those spots so they do a lottery system I believe to make it as fair as possible.  What I don't know though is if a certain number of spots are held for a "first come, first served" basis as well for the people who didn't wait until the last minute.  Also, because of the problem kids entering the schools and living in a different district many are implementing contracts that state if you are suspended a certain number of times you are denied status and must leave the school.


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## MJS (Apr 28, 2011)

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-norwalk-school-0428-20110427,0,6396042.story



> NORWALK
> A Bridgeport woman accused of illegally enrolling her child in the Norwalk school district pleaded not guilty to charges of larceny in Superior Court on Wednesday.
> 
> Tanya McDowell has maintained that she was homeless and staying with a friend in Norwalk when she enrolled her 5-year-old son in the school district there.
> ...


 

Interesting...the original article, unless I missed it, doesnt say anything about the mother staying with the friend.  I read it as the mom using a friends address.  In any case, it looks like her son is back in Bridgeport.  It'll be interesting to see what happens on the 11th.


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