# Interesting Instructor Pairings



## Dan Anderson (Oct 31, 2005)

The Rich/Jerome thread got shut down but that led me to an interesting thought: What would be some interesting pairings of instructors because of the differences between the two of them or whose instructional methods would compliment whose?  I think Rich & Jerome on the same teaching bill would be very interesting because they are so different.  

Who do think would make an interesting match up and let's keep this civil, please.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Oct 31, 2005)

I've long said any 2 Datus would be a good pairing.
While I'm not up on alot of the "who" name wise, any of the top US paired up with any of the top European or PI players also.  A nice blend of differing cultures, and experiences.


----------



## arnisador (Oct 31, 2005)

Yeah, a pair of datus would get my attention.

I'd like to see someone from the Philippines group paired with someone from the U.S. group so as to compare and contrast them!


----------



## Rich Parsons (Oct 31, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Yeah, a pair of datus would get my attention.
> 
> I'd like to see someone from the Philippines group paired with someone from the U.S. group so as to compare and contrast them!



They were last minute additions, but Master Bambit was at Dan's camp alst year as well as the IMAF camp in Lansing Michigan. I had the chance to meet and talk a couple of minutes with him in Lansing. A very nice guy.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 1, 2005)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> The Rich/Jerome thread got shut down but that led me to an interesting thought: What would be some interesting pairings of instructors because of the differences between the two of them or whose instructional methods would compliment whose? I think Rich & Jerome on the same teaching bill would be very interesting because they are so different.
> 
> Who do think would make an interesting match up and let's keep this civil, please.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Dan,

I like the original pairing mentioned, it would have been both fun and instructive to actually do the program, but alas, it will not come to pass.
How about PG Tom Bolden and any of the datus?  I believe that any of those combinations would offer a variety of interesting contrasts.

Have a nice day,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Dan Anderson (Nov 2, 2005)

Due to the differences in personalities:
Dieter Knuttel/Kelly Worden
Tim Hartman/Tom Bolden
Randi Shea/Kelly Worden
myself/(insert name here)
Bram Frank/Dieter Knuttel (this has already been done in Brevard but it is still an interesting pairing)

Those are the ones off the top of my head.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 2, 2005)

DrBarber said:
			
		

> Hi Dan,
> 
> I like the original pairing mentioned, it would have been both fun and instructive to actually do the program, but alas, it will not come to pass.
> How about PG Tom Bolden and any of the datus? I believe that any of those combinations would offer a variety of interesting contrasts.
> ...



Alas Poor Dan, I knew him well Jerome. Just because I replied that I would not to host you, does not mean I will not be on the same floor as you.


As to interesting pairings, I think any of the two Datu's. One of the MoTT's and one of the Datu's, how about someone from the 70's and 90's?


----------



## Morgan (Nov 3, 2005)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Due to the differences in personalities:
> Dieter Knuttel/Kelly Worden
> Tim Hartman/Tom Bolden
> Randi Shea/Kelly Worden
> ...


 
During a dinner discussion last night several friends and I decided that the following pairings might be interesting:

1. GM Jeff Delaney & Master Rich Parsons
2. Professor Lisa McManus & Guro Sal Tadoro
3. Guro Dawad Muhammad & PG Remy Presas, Jr.
4. Guro Bob Hubbard & Palusut

Morgan


----------



## Guro Harold (Nov 3, 2005)

Morgan said:
			
		

> During a dinner discussion last night several friends and I decided that the following pairings might be interesting:
> 
> 1. GM Jeff Delaney & Master Rich Parsons
> 2. Professor Lisa McManus & Guro Sal Tadoro
> ...


Ha, Very Funny!!
:rofl: 
Why am I the only one who isn't a guro?


----------



## arnisador (Nov 3, 2005)

I found that funny too! Good luck Guros *Palusut* and Hubbard!


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 3, 2005)

Hey, I got a promotion. 
I appreciate the confidence.

Seriously though, what's the thoughts behind the pairings?


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 3, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I found that funny too! Good luck Guros *Palusut* and Hubbard!


I'm gonna need that luck when my series of training videos comes out shortly.


----------



## Dan Anderson (Nov 3, 2005)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Hey, I got a promotion.
> I appreciate the confidence.
> 
> Seriously though, what's the thoughts behind the pairings?


  For me, the thought is which pair of very different teachers teaching at the same seminar would be interesting and at the same time contrasting in style, techiques, and approach and yet beneficial to the attendee?  For example Dieter and Kelly have very different teaching styles and personalities yet the attendees would get their monies worth.  Same with Tim Hartman & Jerome or Rich & Jeff.  It is an interesting intellectuial game for me because of the personalities involved, most of the suggestions would never see the light of day.  Yours, Dan Anderson


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 4, 2005)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> For me, the thought is which pair of very different teachers teaching at the same seminar would be interesting and at the same time contrasting in style, techiques, and approach and yet beneficial to the attendee? For example Dieter and Kelly have very different teaching styles and personalities yet the attendees would get their monies worth. Same with Tim Hartman & Jerome or Rich & Jeff. It is an interesting intellectuial game for me because of the personalities involved, most of the suggestions would never see the light of day. Yours, Dan Anderson


 
Hi Dan,

I have to agree with you, most of the pairings will never see the light of day.  Too bad, but that's life at the present time.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 4, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Alas Poor Dan, I knew him well Jerome. Just because I replied that I would not to host you, does not mean I will not be on the same floor as you.
> 
> 
> As to interesting pairings, I think any of the two Datu's. One of the MoTT's and one of the Datu's, how about someone from the 70's and 90's?


 
Thanks, Rich.  Much Appriciated.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## dearnis.com (Nov 4, 2005)

Interesting discussion for the most part.  I've got to be honest though, I never cared for the two (or more) instructor format.  I suppose it works for "window shopping," but I almost always felt that an instructor who was doing a shorter segment was seldom at their best.  In other words, I would rather see one instructor develop material over a day or two than see two or more showcase a short segment.  
This may simply be me getting fussy in my old age; I am much more demanding about getting a full return on any time I invest going to see one or more instructors.

As an aside, RP did always seem to be able to tailor his presentation to the length of time availible.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 7, 2005)

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> Interesting discussion for the most part. I've got to be honest though, I never cared for the two (or more) instructor format. I suppose it works for "window shopping," but I almost always felt that an instructor who was doing a shorter segment was seldom at their best. In other words, I would rather see one instructor develop material over a day or two than see two or more showcase a short segment.
> This may simply be me getting fussy in my old age; I am much more demanding about getting a full return on any time I invest going to see one or more instructors.
> 
> As an aside, RP did always seem to be able to tailor his presentation to the length of time availible.


 

There are definate advantages and disadvantages to the two man presentation format.  I've worked in a both the single and dual presentations as well as the multiple presentations with as many as 8 instructors in a single day.  Each format requires that the presenter adjust to the time frame available and tailor the instruction to the audience in attendance.

I would much prefer to have a full day (6 - 8 hours) to develop an opening sequence and lay out the foundation of the topic being taught.  Then I will move people into the driils and basic applications.  After that I will follow up with compund applications tying in two or more of the basic movements.  As I move toward closure, I will return to the drills in order to establish a solid training format for the students to work with after the seminar is concluded.

The shorter the presentation time, the greater the necessity for the instructor to be focused and have his/her program under full command.  The goal is to work effectively and efficently during the presentation.  The pacing of the presentation has to be fast, smooth and logical.  No wasted motions or verbiage.  

My approach is based the time allocted for the presentation.  In an hour long presentation, I set up a single drill and base ALL of the subsequent instruction on making that drill a practical self-defense reality.  I alllow 10 minutes to establish the drill, 40 minutes to show a number of self defense applications and the final 10 minutes is used to reinterate the drill for subsequent practice after the seminar has ended.

I have gotten good responses from my 60 minute presentations and in one case a student contacted me to report that my instruction had helped her to fend off an attack by two individuals and escape unharmed.  I would much prefer to have 120 to 180 minutes for instructional purposes, but that is not and will not always be the case.

As for learning something through a muliple instructor format, the key for me is to draw from the presenters the core concepts that he/she is presenting.  Place those concepts in my own terminology and movement base, modify the concepts to fit what I am already comfortable with and then practice the movements, adding them to my base skills-set.  The 
instructional master key for me is to find the similarities and differences, then use them as they best suit me.  I consider the full return on my investment in time and money to be how well I can adapt the training provided the instructor(s).

When I attend seminars and camps as either a student, instructor or both my goal is to add something to my basic knowledge about my art as I practice and/or teach it.  There have been times when the instruction has verified some of my ideas, other times have caused me to question the effectiveness of something that I have been doing/teaching.  At other times I have had to step back and do a total review of my assumptions and beliefs.  The latter situation is very disturbing but it is also the highly informative and exciting.  I believe that a self-defense perspective has to be flexible, alive and viberant in order to be adaptable to new situations.  My personal philosophy is that the system has to fit the individual.  

In closing, I am far less concerned about the amount of teaching time a particular instructor or I have, I am far more interested in how effectively did that instructor or I utilize the time that was made available for the presentation. 

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Dan Anderson (Nov 7, 2005)

Then again, on a humorous note, I prefer one instructor for the whole seminar - especially if *I* am the instructor.  Then I don't share the money with anyone.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 7, 2005)

I definately prefer the one instructor format whether I am
teaching or training. However, it is interesting sometimes
when you have a couple of instructors particularly when they
have very contrasting styles.

Brian R. VanCise


----------



## Andrew Evans (Nov 8, 2005)

The dynamics of having two different instructors tends to have one of two results. 

The first result is both instructors keep repeating the subject that the other instructor recently taught and it becomes a "chest-thumping mine is better than yours" situation.

The other result is one of mutual respect. The late Dr. Wilfredo Matias had an excellent knife game but he would never teach knife when a renowned knife expert was teaching at the same seminar. While Dr. Matias focused on other aspects, it still made for an interesting seminar.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 9, 2005)

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> The dynamics of having two different instructors tends to have one of two results.
> 
> The first result is both instructors keep repeating the subject that the other instructor recently taught and it becomes a "chest-thumping mine is better than yours" situation.
> 
> The other result is one of mutual respect. The late Dr. Wilfredo Matias had an excellent knife game but he would never teach knife when a renowned knife expert was teaching at the same seminar. While Dr. Matias focused on other aspects, it still made for an interesting seminar.


 
Dear Andrew,

It seems to me that if the two instructors keep repeating what the other has done then neither of them have anything that they can really teach independently.  I have never had to repeat what anyone else has taught and I have never been on a multi-instructor program where someone followed my presentation with a variation of the same material that I had first presented.  Common sense and courtesy would preclude that from happening unless it was agreed on before the event took place.

If someone only has a 'one trick pony' then they ought to leave that little pony in the stable, stay at home until their skills and knowledge base have expanded.  Earlier this year in Anaheim, CA, at the Modern Arnis Philippines "Tipunan", I was 6th or 7th on the program and I most certinly did not repeat anything already presented by anyone who had presented before me.  I was also able to learn a couple things from both those who both preceeded as well followed me on the floor.  I participated in nearly every presentation as a student.  

There are good reasons for people to go to as well as avoid multiple instructor formats.  Each one of those multi instructor events should be judged on the merits of the people presented and not on a simple knee-jerk rejection of all multi instructor program just because it is that type of event.  

I have also found that multi instructor programs are good sources for finding new people to feature at my college seminar series that has been running since 1986.  I have been able to offer a wide variety of instructors because I had first knowledge of these people and the scouting trip was more than successful in terms of costs.  3 to 8 potential seminar/camp instructors on a single show-bill?  Very cost effective.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 9, 2005)

Dan Anderson said:
			
		

> Then again, on a humorous note, I prefer one instructor for the whole seminar - especially if *I* am the instructor. Then I don't share the money with anyone.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson


 
Hi Dan,

I am in full agreement regarding sharing the money!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Andrew Evans (Nov 9, 2005)

Dr. Barber,

Hello fellow doctorate holder!



			
				DrBarber said:
			
		

> It seems to me that if the two instructors keep repeating what the other has done then neither of them have anything that they can really teach independently.


Unfortunately, the two instructors I would like to host do not get along. I am very sure that they would take turns pointing out the flaws in the other's technique/methods. Hence, the term "interesting pairings" as most of these would never happen.



			
				DrBarber said:
			
		

> I have never had to repeat what anyone else has taught and I have never been on a multi-instructor program where someone followed my presentation with a variation of the same material that I had first presented.


You're lucky. Once I visited another school and was asked to demonstrate a technique. The instructor interrupted and then showed the students how they do it better. When it was my turn, instead of moving to another technique, I went back to the subject and continued building on it. After all, it is easy to follow someone and make a total fool out of them.



			
				DrBarber said:
			
		

> Earlier this year in Anaheim, CA, at the Modern Arnis Philippines "Tipunan", I was 6th or 7th on the program and I most certinly did not repeat anything already presented by anyone who had presented before me.


Did the preceding presentations affect what you were planning to teach? If someone taught what you planned on teaching, how would you have adjusted?



			
				DrBarber said:
			
		

> I was also able to learn a couple things from both those who both preceeded as well followed me on the floor. I participated in nearly every presentation as a student.


I highly commend you for that! It shows a lot of humility and maturity.

Take care,
Andrew Evans, J.D.


Regards,
Andrew


----------



## Dan Anderson (Nov 9, 2005)

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, the two instructors I would like to host do not get along. I am very sure that they would take turns pointing out the flaws in the other's technique/methods.
> Regards,
> Andrew


 
Andrew,

Your first sentence is quite correct.  Let me post, in public right here and now, that *I* would not indulge in the second one if we I shared the same floor.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 10, 2005)

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> Dr. Barber,
> 
> Hello fellow doctorate holder!
> 
> ...


 
Hello Dr. Evans,

Congratulations, though belated.  One way out of the problem of having the pair at a seminar  would be to put together a set of rules that each would have to abide by, if they accepted an invitation from you to participate in a seminar.  Or have them appear seperately with the other giving a seminar at the same time on a different section of the floor, if your room were large enough.  Divide the seminar participants into two groups with one group going to each instructor for a pre-determined period of time.  For convience let's call it a morning and an afternoon session.  Then the participants can switch and work with the other instructor for the second session.  Since both instructors are working at the same time, they will not have a valid opportunity to be critical of the other person in real time and based on what they actually saw for themselves.  If you avoid the side by side, one follows the other format, you avoid giving them opening to be critical of one another.  You'll never know if that pairing would or would not actually happen until you ask them to do the seminar.  I would suggest contacting each of them privately and explain what you would like to do and see what happens.

That was a rude thing for that fellow to do to you.  It shows me that he was both small minded and insecure.  After-all there are numerous ways that a technique can be modified or adapted.  Some ways work better for an individual than some others.  A good deal of the differences can be traced to an individuals size, strenght, weight, martial experience and preferences.  Of course that fellow opened the door for you to take his example and build on it and I can't say that I would have acted differently than you did.  After-all, he inivited you to demonstrate, he deserved to have his "better way" toyed with, teased and expanded upon... he set the ball in motion.

Yes and no with regard to the preceeding presentations.  Each of the others had been heavily focused on the usage of the single stick.  I had intended to use a double stick drill to set up my presentation, but with so much stick work preceeding my presentation, I dropped the stick work, put the double sinawali drill forward as an empty hand drill and then moved right into the empty hand self-defense applications with trapping included.  I have been at a couple of other programs where my planned presentation was taught by someone else and I simply fell back on another set of ideas and techniques that allowed me to avoid copying the other fellows.  

At a program in 2002, an instructor used the redonda and single sinawali drills as the focus of his 3 hour presentation and I really enjoyed his program.  When I opened the morning session the next day, I used the flow/crossada drills and built my self-defense application off of those drills.  I also added the pocket stick, kubaton keychain and Gunting Knife to my empty hand applications.  My original plan was to teach from the redonda drill as my starting point. 

Going to a seminar or camp program should be regarded as an opportunity to learn from others.  It is also a chance to validate some of your ideas and movement against what you see others doing.  Even if you do not discover something new, you might re-discover something that you already knew but hadn't used in a long time.  There is some truth to the old, oft-used put-down, 'I've forgotten more than someone ever knew'.  

Depending on how long you have been in the arts and how broad or narrow your training experiences it is entirely possible that there is some old stuff hanging out in the back of your mind because we tend to put new experiences first.  We sometimes forget that the new stuff was built on the previous learning.  Without the old stuff in place we would always be true beginners lacking in foundation, scope and breadth.  

Perronally, I like multi instructor programs when they can and are augmented by the single instructor format.  I enjoy the variety and different levels of intensity that the different instructors have as the teach.  From the multi instructor programs, I have found individual instructors whom I gone on the work with over extended periods of time in large groups, small groups and some private or semi-private sessions.  It all comes down to just how flexible and open different people are to learning.  There simply isn't a single best way to teach or learn.

I hope that this information has answered your questions.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Andrew Evans (Nov 10, 2005)

Dr. Barber,

Thank you for the information about setting up a multi-instructor format. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge who has provided me with a lot of great ideas. Talk about thinking outside of the box!

Also, you are one of the big players in Modern Arnis that I haven't had the privilege of training with. Hopefully, I will change that sometime in the near future.

Regards,

Andrew Evans, J.D. 2001


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 10, 2005)

I have seen the IMAF group with six MoTTs, do a technique chain, where one would teach a technique and then one would teach a counter, and then the counter to the counter. This was done in a nice an learning way, and all knew about it when they entered the floor.  A professional group

To answer the question about, what would you do if someone else did what you wanted? I saw this at the Martial Talk Seminar in Buffalo. Tim and I  discussed what he would do and what I would do. Yet the other arts present, were concentrating on joint locks or grappling, and I heard a couple of people say that was so clsoe to what they wanted to do, that if they did it would look the same or too close. So, they thought of something else to teach. This did not happen as a pre-meeting it just happened, as the day developed. Once again a very professional group to work with.


----------



## kempomama (Nov 12, 2005)

Hey guys! Let's throw some women into the mix. Mary Ann Presas (Phillipines- old school), Laura Worden (U.S.- old school) and Lisa McManus (tapi-tapi era) would be a good billing. Look out Charlie's Angels! The gals are back in town.


----------



## Guro Harold (Nov 12, 2005)

kempomama said:
			
		

> Hey guys! Let's throw some women into the mix. Mary Ann Presas (Phillipines- old school), Laura Worden (U.S.- old school) and Lisa McManus (tapi-tapi era) would be a good billing. Look out Charlie's Angels! The gals are back in town.


Don't forget about Karen from Chicago.
Gabe and crew from Germany.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 12, 2005)

Ms. Elfman in the Northeast is someone people might enjoy to leave.


----------



## James Patrick (Nov 13, 2005)

I think that the multiple instructor format works reasonably often, doesn't it? There are a lot of good Modern Arnis instructors who bring in other instructors to teach, especially at the big 3 and 4 day seminars.

I think the key to making it work, though, is if the instructors work well together, and plan out what they are going to teach ahead of time; so that they could bring the most value to the attendees. I can't see pairing up people who don't get along and having the instructors compete with one another. That just seems silly and counter-productive to me.

James Patrick, Ndy. (no degree yet...lol)


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 14, 2005)

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> Dr. Barber,
> 
> Thank you for the information about setting up a multi-instructor format. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge who has provided me with a lot of great ideas. Talk about thinking outside of the box!
> 
> ...


 
Dear Dr. Evans,

It was my pleasure being able to sharee the information with you and if you can use and it works for you that is even better.  I do enjoy thinking outside of the box.  That style of thinking can provide one with very novel solutions to problems that seem impervious to solutions.

As for your comment on me being "...one of the big players in Modern Arnis...", I must say that you have overstated the case, because I am not a MoTT or Datu and I resigned from the IMAF in 1994.  Per my promise to the late Professor Presas, I never stopped teaching Modern Arnis, but I also never rose above the Lakan Tatlo rank that I held in 1994.  There are numerous others who are ranked higher than myself in the system.  In addition, I am an Independent who teaches an Escrima-Kenpo-Arnis blending, that Professor formally recognized in 1989.

As far as training with me, we can arrange for that with a couple of private e-mails.  Perhaps we could share a joint instructional seminar.  Meeting as peers and sharing the floor with you would be an honor.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Mark Lynn (Nov 18, 2005)

Good thread

I like both types of seminar formats really, IMHO it depends upon the instructor teaching.

1) Some instructors can't carry the whole day or camp, so in this case the multi instructor is good.

2) I don't like the multi instructor mode if I paid to see someone and the person is sharing the bill with someone else who I'm not real interested in seeing.

GM Remy was like that I wanted to see GM Remy not someone else teach.  It doesn't mean that the other instructor wasn't any good just that I wanted to see the top instructor.

3) I like the whole building on a foundation and having the instructors come off of that and teach.  

An example of this was SM Dan's MA camp this past summer, for the most part there was some core central techniques, drills that were taught by different people in different formats.  Abaniko (fan strikes) were included in most of the teaching sessions, flow drills such as single care sparring (6 count/Sumbrada type drills), Tapi Tapi etc. etc. empty hand drills were taught with knife applications (Bram's material) etc. etc.

The other extreme was the Symposium.  (No offense Dr. Barber and I don't want to turn this into a rag on the Symposium)  Here the theme was Modern Arnis but it was more outside of the box Modern Arnis.  And in that case it was distracting.

4) I like the multi instructor format especially to see the differences between instructors and their methds of teach/instruction and their techniques.

Again Dan's seminar was a good example of this with Dan, Dieter, Bambit, Robert Quinn, Shishir, and Bram.  But it was over a four day period so everyone got a good chance to see the instrcutor at least twice for about 3 hours of instruction.

I don't know how a 1 hour format would work like this, it's almost to short.


----------



## Mark Lynn (Nov 18, 2005)

As for interesting instructor pairings 

1) Andrew if I'm reading yours and Dan's posts right that would be an interesting pairing.  Let me know if you ever pull it off and I'll be there.

2) Dan and Dieter basically because they work well (it seemed like) on the floor together at Dan's seminar.  It seemed like they were having a good time, that being the case I think anything they did together would be a great seminar.

3) I've seen the MOTTs (and inclded here is Dr. Schea) many times and have always enjoyed their seminars and instruction.  The last Houston camp I went to (2002) I really enjoyed it and their presentations.

4) Bambit and anyone else from the PI or old school Modern Arnis.

5) I would have liked to have seen Rocky and some other old school Modern Arnis US players.

Mark


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 18, 2005)

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> As for interesting instructor pairings
> 
> 1) Andrew if I'm reading yours and Dan's posts right that would be an interesting pairing. Let me know if you ever pull it off and I'll be there.
> 
> ...



Mark,

How would you define "Old School"?

Best regards


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 18, 2005)

Even though I am not a super fan of multiple instructor 
seminars on occasion they can be good. How about some
"old school" Flint style Modern Arnis with Jeff Fields, 
Jim Powers and Jeff Arnold. That might be interesting!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 18, 2005)

Morgan said:
			
		

> During a dinner discussion last night several friends and I decided that the following pairings might be interesting:
> 
> 1. GM Jeff Delaney & Master Rich Parsons
> 2. Professor Lisa McManus & Guro Sal Tadoro
> ...



I would work with Mr. Delaney or any on this list for that matter.

Thank you Morgan for the mention


----------



## donald (Nov 19, 2005)

Mr.Huk Planas, and Mr.Bong Soo Han


----------



## DragonMind (Nov 22, 2005)

Pairings I'd like to see:

Edessa Ramos and Robert Quinn (think size, body type, etc)
Dieter Knuttel and Shishir Inocalla (the wrecking ball and the scalpel)
Bram Frank and Ray Dionaldo (I just like blades...)
Dan Anderson and Bruce Chiu (tournament fighter and street cop)


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 22, 2005)

DragonMind said:
			
		

> Pairings I'd like to see:
> 
> Edessa Ramos and Robert Quinn (think size, body type, etc)
> Dieter Knuttel and Shishir Inocalla (the wrecking ball and the scalpel)
> ...


 
DragonMind,

Your selection of pairings raised a couple more pairs in my own mind:

1. Edessa Ramos and "Arnis Princess" - I've seen and worked with the former and have only read commets by the latter.

2.  Tom Bolden and any of the Datus named by Professor Presas.  This is a repeated suggestion, but the idea still intriges me.

3.  Tom Bolden and any of the MoTTs.  A new suggestion but another very interesting set of pairing.

4.  Sal Tadoro and Dan McConnell.  Neither is at the top of their respective organizations but are leading players within them.  Not all of the fun should be reserved for the leadership levels.

5.  Rocky Paswik and Douglas Pierre.  The contrast in body type, personal movement style and additional arts studied would provide very compelling contrasts in approach.

6.  Tom Bolden and Richard 'Huk' Palanas.  CHA-3 Kenpo as opposed to Parker Kenpo.  Both are Hawaiian-based Kenpo arts with some shared lineage.

Respectfully,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 22, 2005)

Morgan said:
			
		

> During a dinner discussion last night several friends and I decided that the following pairings might be interesting:
> 
> 1. GM Jeff Delaney & Master Rich Parsons
> 2. Professor Lisa McManus & Guro Sal Tadoro
> ...





			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I would work with Mr. Delaney or any on this list for that matter.
> 
> Thank you Morgan for the mention


Rich,
  I'm always willing to assist if needed.


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 23, 2005)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Even though I am not a super fan of multiple instructor
> seminars on occasion they can be good. How about some
> "old school" Flint style Modern Arnis with Jeff Fields,
> Jim Powers and Jeff Arnold. That might be interesting!
> ...


 
Hello Brian,

Very nice proposal, Fields, Powers and Arnold.  Three names from my early days in Modern Arnis and outside of some local environs, names not often mentioned when the "big pictures" are being drawn.  

These guys were there in the early days of Modern Arnis in the USA with Jeff Arnold appearing in Professor's Modern Arnis book, published by Ohara Publications in 1983.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## arnisador (Nov 23, 2005)

I know that Mr. Powers is still active in Modern Arnis--are the other two?


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 23, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I know that Mr. Powers is still active in Modern Arnis--are the other two?



Jeff Fields is semi retired and only teaches privately, one or two people.

Jeff Arnold, teachs from his American Modern Arnis, and does not teach per se anymore, but does teach his senior student, Michael Bach (* 3rd Degree last I knew could be more as it has been a couple fo years *) who runs a small school in the Flushing Area I believe.

James Power: Flint Filipino Martial Arts Club, the one I am associated with, and respect as a very knowledgable senior in the arts to me. 

:asian:


----------



## DrBarber (Nov 23, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Jeff Fields is semi retired and only teaches privately, one or two people.
> 
> Jeff Arnold, teachs from his American Modern Arnis, and does not teach per se anymore, but does teach his senior student, Michael Bach (* 3rd Degree last I knew could be more as it has been a couple fo years *) who runs a small school in the Flushing Area I believe.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Rich,

Just a quick note.  Jeff Arnold's organization is called American Arnis.
Tom Bolden's organization is the American Modern Arnis Associates.

We definately want to keep them propely identified.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 23, 2005)

DrBarber said:
			
		

> Hi Rich,
> 
> Just a quick note.  Jeff Arnold's organization is called American Arnis.
> Tom Bolden's organization is the American Modern Arnis Associates.
> ...



I have seen both over the years, and could be adding in the Modern.


----------



## Mark Lynn (Nov 24, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Mark,
> 
> How would you define "Old School"?
> 
> Best regards


 
Rich

It's kind of hard for me top describe here but it seems to me that there is a difference in the look or feel of different instructors in how they present Modern Arnis.

For instance having seen both GM Remy and his brother GM Ernesto, while they have similarities between their respective systems there is a difference in that GM Ernesto's seems more "classical".  GM Remy's more "modern".

However I know that GM Remy was older than Ernesto and Remy's Modern Arnis is really the "older" system.  In seeing some of Remy's older students (Tito Willy, Bambit, Max Pallen, Dieter, Dr. Remy Jr.) to me they have the same/similar look or feel about them.  Dieter started with GM Ernesto way back in the late 70's early 80's before he switched over to Remy's system in the mid 90's, and I throw him in here because I think he also has the "old school" look about him (at times).  So it is my belief that the practictioners from the older schools from the 70's (in the Philippines) maybe earlly 80's are from the old school.

Much of the major players today in MA have a more "modern" look or feel to them.  Jeff D., the MOTTS, SM Dan Anderson, even Datu Worden, etc. etc. all have the same roots so to speak of GM Remy once he was here in the states for a few years.  I think the longer that he (GM Remy) was here the bigger the difference in the way the instructors or practitionars look.

This is just my opinion and my theory on the way different instructors look and what they teach.  I have tried to see some of the older practionars of MA to see if this is true and to expand my experience in the art.  And this is what I meant by old school.

With respect
Mark


----------



## Dieter (Nov 24, 2005)

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Dieter started with GM Ernesto way back in the late 70's early 80's before he switched over to Remy's system in the mid 90's, and I throw him in here because I think he also has the "old school" look about him (at times).
> Mark



Hi Mark

I like the "at times".
For me that implies, there is both. That's good.

BTW, haveing had a lot of contact with the older MA "students" of former times or rather hight ranked masters of today (C. Vasquez, 9th Dan, R. Dantes, 8th Dan, R. Dagoog, 8th Dan, R. Tongson, 8th Dan), they all told me, that the Modern Arnis of Ernesto of the early 80ies was much closer to ther Modern Arnis of Remy in the 70ies than Remys Arnis of the late 90ies was to Remys Arnis of the 70ies. 
No jugement in that statement. Just the fact.

Greetings and hopefully till June again in Brevard


Dieter


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 24, 2005)

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Rich
> 
> It's kind of hard for me top describe here but it seems to me that there is a difference in the look or feel of different instructors in how they present Modern Arnis.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark,

I was just looking for your opinion. 

:asian:


----------



## Andrew Evans (Nov 26, 2005)

The Boar Man said:
			
		

> Here the theme was Modern Arnis but it was more outside of the box Modern Arnis. And in that case it was distracting.


I totally understand what Mark meant by desiring a focused Modern Arnis event as I host Dr. Remy Presas at least once a year.

In my opinion, GM Remy Presas had vertical and horizontal goals regarding the propagation of Modern Arnis. One was for all of his students to continue improving their skills in Modern Arnis (vertical growth). The second goal was to bring more students into the art (horizontal growth). 

An outside of the box Modern Arnis event would be excellent at bringing in more people from other arts (horizontal growth) plus it would allow the more experienced Arnisadors to add depth to their skills by blending techniques/concepts from other arts (vertical growth).

For example, Dr. Barber and others who have experience in Kenpo-based arts would probably bring in Kenpo folks who otherwise may not try Modern Arnis. These Kenpo folks often decide to become students of Modern Arnis as a result of attending the event (horizontal growth). 

Regards,


----------



## Mark Lynn (Nov 27, 2005)

Dieter said:
			
		

> Hi Mark
> 
> I like the "at times".
> For me that implies, there is both. That's good.
> ...


 
Yeah Dieter I hope you can make it back here for the Brevard seminar.  I'll be there if they can put together the same quality of instructors that they did last (I mean this) year.

IMHO Dieter you do have both in your style, and it is good. Thanks for your insight, on Remy's art of the 70's and the 90's.

Mark


----------



## Mark Lynn (Nov 27, 2005)

Andrew Evans said:
			
		

> I totally understand what Mark meant by desiring a focused Modern Arnis event as I host Dr. Remy Presas at least once a year.
> 
> In my opinion, GM Remy Presas had vertical and horizontal goals regarding the propagation of Modern Arnis. One was for all of his students to continue improving their skills in Modern Arnis (vertical growth). The second goal was to bring more students into the art (horizontal growth).
> 
> ...


 
Andrew

Cool example here hadn't really thought of it this way, but you are right.

Mark


----------

