# Exercises for being more light-footed?



## FireSnake (Oct 20, 2016)

Although I'm quite pleased with my progress in learning the basics, I'm still coming up against a limitation: being a bit heavy-footed. As footwork is so foundational, I wanted to tap the experts here on what exercises I could do on my own to be a little less like a human slab of lead and more nimble in footwork. I'm a bit top-heavy from weightlifting, but that is not an excuse since I've seen people with much bigger muscles than me really move. I've got the flexibility and good upper body speed, but it still feels like I've got weights tied to my darn feet! 

Would others recommend jumping exercises? I'm just at a loss for how to improve upon this (I mean, apart from piping helium into my body - lol!). My thanks in advance for everyone's help!


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## WaterGal (Oct 20, 2016)

Agility ladder drills can help with this.  You can buy an agility ladder on Amazon or at a sporting-goods store for around $30, and there are lots of videos on Youtube of people demonstrating different drills you can do with it.

Jumping rope, while it might seem childish, can also be a good way to practice being light on your feet.

Also: plyometrics.


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## FireSnake (Oct 20, 2016)

Thank you! I have developed a strange love/hate relationship with the agility ladder whenever it comes out - but I'll keep at it. I am going to run with the jump rope idea.


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## Dong xiao hu (Oct 20, 2016)

Try the Capoeira ginga it's a simple movement but it will help.

Sent from my Z797C using Tapatalk


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 20, 2016)

Go to the bar, order a Mai Thai, then try an Electric Shirley Temple....


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## Buka (Oct 20, 2016)

Top heavy - might have focused more on upper body than lower. Long term outlook for quick feet - start working your calves, making sure to stretch calf and Achilles as part of your routine.

Working those calves as part of your Martial routine for light feet - get up on your toes and start shadow boxing, (in whichever way your style punches) but try it in a particular way - pretend you're hiding out in a second floor apartment, and the cops looking for you are sleeping below. And they are light sleepers.

You can't stay on your toes the whole time, your heels will come down as you move in certain ways, that's okay, it's called peddling, but get back up on toes quickly. Throw in feints while you do this drill, too.

Ever see someone cross county skiing? Bounce up and switch your stance, using as little height as possible, land as light as possible - again, the cops are sleeping below. Stay on your toes - and don't wake them.

As mentioned, the agility ladder works really well. But, usually, the faster you go you start really banging against the floor. Maybe not if there's someone watching you to help, but more than likely on you own. Try the same thing, pretend the floor is made of lightweight plastic, and there's angry wasps right below it. If you crack that plastic floor - your screwed. Concentrate a little less on speed and a little more on them wasps.

Jumping rope, in my opinion, might be the best of all. But you really need someone who can teach you how, otherwise it can be very frustrating and counter productive to staying light. But, it's great footwork, and you have to stay light on your feet to actually jump rope.

Lightness of the feet doesn't usually happen overnight. So, stay with whatever drills you end up liking and adopting for a couple years as a supplement to your training. If you don't end up training for a couple years, then it doesn't really matter. 

Go get em', brother.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 20, 2016)

FireSnake said:


> Although I'm quite pleased with my progress in learning the basics, I'm still coming up against a limitation: being a bit heavy-footed. As footwork is so foundational, I wanted to tap the experts here on what exercises I could do on my own to be a little less like a human slab of lead and more nimble in footwork. I'm a bit top-heavy from weightlifting, but that is not an excuse since I've seen people with much bigger muscles than me really move. I've got the flexibility and good upper body speed, but it still feels like I've got weights tied to my darn feet!
> 
> Would others recommend jumping exercises? I'm just at a loss for how to improve upon this (I mean, apart from piping helium into my body - lol!). My thanks in advance for everyone's help!


You just have to move your feet a lot so any exercise that requires you to move your feet will help get rid of heavy feet feeling that you have.  Start slow and gradually allow your body to progress and improve.  Don't go too hard until you get a good base for moving the feet.  Some people make the mistake of going to hard and risk tearing up their knees and ankles. 
You have to give your ligaments and tendons time to adjust to the new routine.

I use a variety of exercises to help me with my footwork, some come from soccer, basketball, football, and there are footwork exercises that are within the system I train.  All of these things help me to improve my footwork.  It's been so long since I've actually jumped high like in basket ball so I can only assume that I'm not so good at that anymore.  Especially that I know weight 50 pounds more than I did when I jumped a lot in basketball.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 20, 2016)

Dong xiao hu said:


> Try the Capoeira ginga it's a simple movement but it will help.
> 
> Sent from my Z797C using Tapatalk


Not without instruction


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## Touch Of Death (Oct 20, 2016)

Shallower stances create more mobility, but you give up some stability.


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## oaktree (Oct 20, 2016)

Ankle weights, walking between two cones about a foot apart and figure eight between them, jump rope each time fall on ball of foot


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## drop bear (Oct 20, 2016)

Frog jumps.
Sprawls.
tuck jumps.
hop across the room. every third hop is a tuck jump hop.
feet together stand up straight. jump across the room using only that position.

Footwork drills of its many and varied forms.


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## FireSnake (Oct 21, 2016)

Wow, thank you all! It seems that I am very spoiled for options on how to get my feet moving. It is like a weight has been lifted 

I will ask my Master if he can observe my routine for the ladder, jumping, and skip-rope to ensure that I'm doing them correctly. I'll also have to change up the weight training to not skip leg day, but with a focus on high reps. You've all been very kind and helpful for this noob question of mine!


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## wingchun100 (Oct 21, 2016)

Suicide jumps. One of my favorites.


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## KangTsai (Oct 29, 2016)

FireSnake said:


> Although I'm quite pleased with my progress in learning the basics, I'm still coming up against a limitation: being a bit heavy-footed. As footwork is so foundational, I wanted to tap the experts here on what exercises I could do on my own to be a little less like a human slab of lead and more nimble in footwork. I'm a bit top-heavy from weightlifting, but that is not an excuse since I've seen people with much bigger muscles than me really move. I've got the flexibility and good upper body speed, but it still feels like I've got weights tied to my darn feet!
> 
> Would others recommend jumping exercises? I'm just at a loss for how to improve upon this (I mean, apart from piping helium into my body - lol!). My thanks in advance for everyone's help!


Just pay attention to keeping on your balls (of your feet) at all times. Also, squats.


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## Frost890 (Nov 23, 2016)

As a side observation, Some styles use heavy steps to keep timing and to express power in their forms. So it is not always a bad thing to have a heavy step. I know someone that focuses on the stomp as she moves forward. It helps her with timing. I want to say that Kung Fu has a bear step that uses the center of the foot instead of the ball and Hung Gar uses some heavy footwork.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 23, 2016)

*more light-footed*

From a wrestler point of view, it's NO NO to be "light footed". My wrestling teacher doesn't event suggest me to train running. The words "float" and "poor rooting" are both bad terms in MA. It's always better to have your gravity center to be as lower to the ground as possible.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 23, 2016)

Frost890 said:


> Hung Gar uses some heavy footwork


Heavy Footwork is an understatement.  If you like jumping high then don't do Hung Gar after a few years it'll make you feel like a walking tank and every time you walk it will be like you are in a continuous state of  being rooted. Recently I've been trying to trying to balance out this level of being rooted so that I can move quickly when needed so that I'm not always feeling like an oak tree.


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## drop bear (Nov 23, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> *more light-footed*
> 
> From a wrestler point of view, it's NO NO to be "light footed". My wrestling teacher doesn't event suggest me to train running. The words "float" and "poor rooting" are both bad terms in MA. It's always better to have your gravity center to be as lower to the ground as possible.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 24, 2016)

This is the opposite of "light footed".


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 25, 2016)

Buka said:


> Top heavy - might have focused more on upper body than lower. Long term outlook for quick feet - start working your calves, making sure to stretch calf and Achilles as part of your routine.
> 
> Working those calves as part of your Martial routine for light feet - get up on your toes and start shadow boxing, (in whichever way your style punches) but try it in a particular way - pretend you're hiding out in a second floor apartment, and the cops looking for you are sleeping below. And they are light sleepers.
> 
> ...


I'm with Buka on this one. If you feel "top heavy", you probably emphasized your upper body to a point where you're out of balance. Building up those leg muscles in the right way (especially the lower leg - those are integral muscles for balance) makes it possible to be lighter on your feet. Build those support muscles up and practice using them in agility drills (like the agility ladder - I'm with you on that one, friend!).


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 25, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> *more light-footed*
> 
> From a wrestler point of view, it's NO NO to be "light footed". My wrestling teacher doesn't event suggest me to train running. The words "float" and "poor rooting" are both bad terms in MA. It's always better to have your gravity center to be as lower to the ground as possible.


Not in all MA. Some practice being light on the feet and still being rooted. "Float" and "poor rooting" aren't antonyms in all styles.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 25, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'm with Buka on this one. If you feel "top heavy", you probably emphasized your upper body to a point where you're out of balance. Building up those leg muscles in the right way (especially the lower leg - those are integral muscles for balance) makes it possible to be lighter on your feet. Build those support muscles up and practice using them in agility drills (like the agility ladder - I'm with you on that one, friend!).


I'm always surprised at how many people "build their houses" from the top down. It's such an unnatural way of development.  I guess vanity drives the world (not saying that the OP is vain) just saying that sometimes we get caught up in how we want to look without realizing that our body functions as a whole.  We aren't some kind of clay model where pieces can be added here and there.  Everything on our body affect how other pieces of our body function.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 25, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm always surprised at how many people "build their houses" from the top down. It's such an unnatural way of development.  I guess vanity drives the world (not saying that the OP is vain) just saying that sometimes we get caught up in how we want to look without realizing that our body functions as a whole.  We aren't some kind of clay model where pieces can be added here and there.  Everything on our body affect how other pieces of our body function.


I'm only surprised by it because I accidentally did it the other way. I was a scrawny kid who played soccer ("football" to most of the world) for 12 years and was a distance runner from the age of 10. In spite of working out like a fiend in high school, I was still pretty scrawny...except for my legs. To me, that's what's "natural", even now that I put very little effort into training my legs for strength.


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 25, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Heavy Footwork is an understatement.  If you like jumping high then don't do Hung Gar after a few years it'll make you feel like a walking tank and every time you walk it will be like you are in a continuous state of  being rooted. Recently I've been trying to trying to balance out this level of being rooted so that I can move quickly when needed so that I'm not always feeling like an oak tree.


Doing Jow Ga, made me realized why the founder wanted to have the footwork of Choy Ga in the system.  It balances out all of that Hung Ga rooting.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 25, 2016)

FireSnake said:


> As footwork is so foundational, ...


To have fast footwork is different from light footed. When you move around in fast speed, you still have to "bend your leg" to allow your center of gravity to be lower to the ground.


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## FireSnake (Nov 26, 2016)

Just another word of thanks for some excellent suggestions, and a small update. I've seen some definite improvement on footwork (speed and more graceful flow) as I more focus on form and mechanics. My being top-heavy was more a genetic predisposition than anything else (which seems to work in my favour for grappling), but the legs are catching up quickly (different form of legwork as previously it was all uneven terrain hiking). Two things have improved footwork on top of the other suggestions: 1) bag-work where I sit on my punch, but keep feet moving without changing distance between feet; 2) Long periods of horse stance, and one-foot balancing drills. All told, I feel less like my bones are made of lead. Just wish I'd started all this 20 years ago!


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## drop bear (Feb 11, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is the opposite of "light footed".



Necro but. 

No that is an example of being light footed


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## jks9199 (Feb 11, 2022)

Jump rope.  "Fast feet" running in place drills.  Lots of practice at moving.  Become conscious of where your weight is on your feet; too far back towards the heels and you'll be heavy.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 11, 2022)

Exercises for being more light-footed?​
From the wrestling art point of view,

light foot = float = high gravity center = no rooting = bad

My Chinese wrestling teacher even told me that running is bad.


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## drop bear (Feb 11, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Exercises for being more light-footed?​
> From the wrestling art point of view,
> 
> light foot = float = high gravity center = no rooting = bad
> ...



No. You move to counter their mechanical advantage. They move to get that advantage. You have to out maneuver someone to be rooted to the ground.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 12, 2022)

drop bear said:


> No. You move to counter their mechanical advantage. They move to get that advantage. You have to out maneuver someone to be rooted to the ground.


I suspect some uses of "rooting" are a static technique. There's something similar that might be in Daito-ryu (we don't get into it much in NGA, at least not that I ever saw). A training partner ahd some Daito-ryu background (and some other stuff, which is why I'm not sure where this came from), but he explained some of the exercises he'd used. If Daniel didn't want to be moved, you needed a hell of a mechanical advantage to make him. I don't understand the mechanics of it, but seems like a more advanced development of some of the principles I was taught (which I use more the way you describe).


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> light foot = float = high gravity center = no rooting = bad


This is what I told my son last night during training.  He's too heavy in is stance and he doesn't have a lot of mobility.  I told him that the stance he uses is for when he thinks someone will try to take him down.  I used wrestlers as an example and how there stance is less mobile.  Than a stance that is tall.

When we want to move fast across a distance then we stand up tall. (A person running)
When we want to be rooted to the ground and difficult to move then we take a lower stance (A person crouching or in a low horse stance, bow stance or cross stance.)

There's a different between quick mobility and light mobility.  A stance can be low, heavy, and quick but travels very little distance. This is good for the majority of cases.

A stance can be light, fast and a lot of distance this can be good too for jumping back. But it's not good for most of the situations a person will find themselves in.  In general a person doesn't want to have light footwork.  They want to have fast footwork that isn't light.  In fighting, if your footwork takes you too far away from your opponent then you will be at a disadvantage of always having to reset and trying to close the gap.



drop bear said:


> You move to counter their mechanical advantage. They move to get that advantage. You have to out maneuver someone to be rooted to the ground.


Outmaneuvering someone doesn't require light feet.  That's a misconception that people make.  Sometimes outmaneuvering someone is only a matter of inches.  I will try to remember to record it, but I can show you fast movement to a target while in a horse stance.  The gap will be a 6 inch gap. I will close that gap by shuffling forward a couple of inches.  It will be fast movement with a heavy stance.  It will be fast but only over a short distance.   To avoid a punch one may only need to move just a few inches.  It's the same for landing one.  

This isn't a disagreement to what you are saying,  I'm just highlighting that there is a difference between footwork that is fast and footwork that is light.  Many times people think that you have to be "light on your feet" in order to be fast or quick and that's not true.  When people speak of being fast or being quick, it should be put into the context of moving across a distance. The more distance that needs to be covered the lighter the footwork will need to be.  If people keep that in mind, then they can determine how far to they need to move and then choose the correct footwork for it.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is what I told my son last night during training.  He's too heavy in is stance and he doesn't have a lot of mobility.


The key is to develop the "sink" ability. The sink is the opposite of the light-footed. When you train sink, you are not training light-footed. When you train light-footed, you are not training sink.

What's "sink"? It's the ability not to be taken down.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The key is to develop the "sink" ability. The sink is the opposite of the light-footed. When you train sink, you are not training light-footed. When you train light-footed, you are not training sink.
> 
> What's "sink"? It's the ability not to be taken down.


does boxing train it? I'm not sure what is the equivalent of sink for them


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> does boxing train it? I'm not sure what is the equivalent of sink for them


Sink has to do with static power generation.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sink has to do with static power generation.


I know what it is.  I just don't know if boxers train it. or if they train it as something else.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I know what it is.  I just don't know if boxers train it. or if they train it as something else.


There is a good reason that boxers train "jumping rope", but no CMA systems train that.

If you try foot sweep against those who train jumping rope and those who don't, you can tell a big difference.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> There is a good reason that boxers train "jumping rope", but no CMA systems train that.


CMA trains jumping


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## drop bear (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> does boxing train it? I'm not sure what is the equivalent of sink for them



Yeah. They call it footwork.


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## drop bear (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is what I told my son last night during training.  He's too heavy in is stance and he doesn't have a lot of mobility.  I told him that the stance he uses is for when he thinks someone will try to take him down.  I used wrestlers as an example and how there stance is less mobile.  Than a stance that is tall.
> 
> When we want to move fast across a distance then we stand up tall. (A person running)
> When we want to be rooted to the ground and difficult to move then we take a lower stance (A person crouching or in a low horse stance, bow stance or cross stance.)
> ...



The thing is if you want to absorb energy, so stop being pushed or pulled or thrown. You structure has to be right.

The problem is they know that and make adjustments so your structure is wrong. I mean that is basically the game of fighting.

So you only get that static rooted stance for about a second or so before you have to adjust it to something else. Which is achieved through light footwork. Even if that light footwork is pushing your body weight downwards.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 12, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. They call it footwork.


I see it now. Not the footwork but the sinking.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I see it now. Not the footwork but the sinking.


Without the ability of sinking, your body can't vibrate like a fish, you won't have the ability to counter your wrestling opponent's force.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Without the ability of sinking, your body can't vibrate like a fish, you won't have the ability to counter your wrestling opponent's force.


I've seen a few people with vibrating bodies. They all involved a foreign body though...


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## Anarax (Feb 12, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> I've seen a few people with vibrating bodies. They all involved a foreign body though...


You definitely live up to your name you Dirty Dog 😂


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Without the ability of sinking, your body can't vibrate like a fish, you won't have the ability to counter your wrestling opponent's force.


I've never once in my training vibrated like a fish. There are a lot of ways to counter an opponent's force in grappling.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never once in my training vibrated like a fish. There are a lot of ways to counter an opponent's force in grappling.


Some of my punches vibrate at the end.  Not sure why. I just thought it was the fat shaking around lol.  I tends to happen when I squeeze my fist very tight at the end of the punch.  When I say tight, I mean that it's like I'm trying to make a diamond in my hand. My double punch vibrates when I punch the air. 

I don't know any benefit of it.  My best guess would be that it the vibration doesn't stay in contact with the target as long, Because of that more energy is transferred into the bag instead of rebounding back into the arm.  This is the only time that I've seen the bag "jump" off my fist and swing.  With my other punches the bag collapses and tends to "bounce up and down" instead of swing.

My son train what could be described as a strike with the shoulder. It's just a short burst of energy but it has a lot of force behind it.  The best description would be "to shake someone off me," but the movement is much smaller and faster than a shake.  Other than those examples, I have no clue what vibrating is or what it does.  I just know that one year I didn't have it and the next year I did lol

You can see vibrating at the end of these punches.  I agree with description of "Shaking" vs "Vibrating" What I feel is more in line with what a shake would be and not a vibrate.





:051 mark.  My son and I strike the heavy bag like this. The only big difference is that we release that energy through our shoulder.  I didn't learn this through any one.  It developed on it's own through me practicing power connection through my punches.  It wasn't a specific exercise like what we do on the bag until this year.  Based on my son's effort this is a hard thing to learn right off the back.  It's probably better to learn through connecting power through easier methods and then work up to this.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 13, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Some of my punches vibrate at the end.  Not sure why. I just thought it was the fat shaking around lol.  I tends to happen when I squeeze my fist very tight at the end of the punch.  When I say tight, I mean that it's like I'm trying to make a diamond in my hand. My double punch vibrates when I punch the air.


This sounds to me like you are using too much tension which tends to turn the punch into a “muscling” movement and separates it from the power coming from the body.  It feels strong because you are exerting a lot of muscular force, but the power is less, with more effort. 

You don’t need to squeeze your hand so tight.  There just isn’t any need for it, it does not improve your punch.  The fist should be comfortably tight, and just what that means can be determined from working on the heavy bag.  But you do not need to squeeze so tight, which creates a lot of tension up the arm and into the shoulder.  Instead, relax and let the movement of the torso drive that punch out.  

If I notice a vibration in my fist at the end of the punch, then I take that as a clue that my power is disconnected and I am using to much effort and am muscling the technique.  Time to re-examine my mechanics.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 13, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


>


This is an interesting video, and I think he is onto the idea.  What he does not talk about, is how the feet and legs press into the ground to drive the hip rotation.  He kinda vaguely talks about the legs rooting, but does not go into detail about making the legs deliver that power.  It is possible to rotate the hips and torso with little or no power from the legs.  In this case, the rotation comes from higher up.  That fails to engage the power of the legs.  This is lacking in a lot of what I see, and a lot of the discussion on this topic.  People talk about hip/torso rotation, but say little or nothing about how the legs give the power to it.  Maybe people are doing it, maybe they are not.  But it is not clear and when it comes to instruction of others, that clarity is very important.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 13, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> You don’t need to squeeze your hand so tight. There just isn’t any need for it, it does not improve your punch. The fist should be comfortably tight, and just what that means can be determined from working on the heavy bag. But you do not need to squeeze so tight, which creates a lot of tension up the arm and into the shoulder. Instead, relax and let the movement of the torso drive that punch out.
> 
> If I notice a vibration in my fist at the end of the punch, then I take that as a clue that my power is disconnected and I am using to much effort and am muscling the technique. Time to re-examine my mechanics.


I probably should have clarified squeeze tight.  My fist formation is not the same that others use.  I don't wrap my thumb around my hand so when I squeeze I'm not squeezing in the same area.  My thumb is placed on the side of the fist, so I squeeze toward my fingers and not towards my palm.  With this fist structure the fist will deform if the person squeezes too hard towards the palm.  This fist structure also doesn't engage the forearm in the same way because of the direction of the squeeze.  It allows a tight fist with a more relaxed forearm.

I have to keep this in mind when I talk about my punches.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 13, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> People talk about hip/torso rotation, but say little or nothing about how the legs give the power to it. Maybe people are doing it, maybe they are not. But it is not clear and when it comes to instruction of others, that clarity is very important.


They are probably talking about it when they are teaching and see a student having trouble, but it will often be left out when "showing."  Like in that video, it doesn't teach how to do it, it just shows what it looks like. Which makes it a bad instructional video on how to do something.

This is one of the learning cautions for using video to learn.  Is the video showing or teaching?  If it's only showing then a lot will be left out.  Unfortunately a beginner won't know if the video is showing how to do something or if it's teaching how to do something.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never once in my training vibrated like a fish. There are a lot of ways to counter an opponent's force in grappling.


One way to counter a hip throw is to use your belly to bounce your opponent's hip away from your body.

One day I found that I had hard time to throw one of my opponents. I asked my teacher. He said, "He has just developed the bouncing ability that any time you try to make a body contact (your back touch on his front), he can use vibration force to bounce your body away." I liked that ability and I started to develop it after that day.

The "embracing" throw may look like you use your arms muscle to lift your opponent up. The key point is you use your belly to bounce your opponent off the ground. In order to do so, you will need to be in a low horse stance, sink down, change your bending legs into straight legs. Again, this is the opposite of the "light-footed".






As far as I know, not too many people have trained this skill any more.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> This is an interesting video, and I think he is onto the idea.  What he does not talk about, is how the feet and legs press into the ground to drive the hip rotation.  He kinda vaguely talks about the legs rooting, but does not go into detail about making the legs deliver that power.  It is possible to rotate the hips and torso with little or no power from the legs.  In this case, the rotation comes from higher up.  That fails to engage the power of the legs.  This is lacking in a lot of what I see, and a lot of the discussion on this topic.  People talk about hip/torso rotation, but say little or nothing about how the legs give the power to it.  Maybe people are doing it, maybe they are not.  But it is not clear and when it comes to instruction of others, that clarity is very important.


The standard Japanese drills I've experienced for this don't ever talk about using the legs (they focus on the hips and upper body), but the way the drills restrict the upper body mean you have to learn to generate the hip motion from the legs. This approach (a mental image of movement that is focused in one area, paired with a restriction in another area to force specific principles) is something I've seen in every area of relatively traditional Japanese MA I've experienced.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> One way to counter a hip throw is to use your belly to bounce your opponent's hip away from your body.
> 
> One day I found that I had hard time to throw one of my opponents. I asked my teacher. He said, "He has just developed the bouncing ability that any time you try to make a body contact (your back touch on his front), he can use vibration force to bounce your body away." I liked that ability and I started to develop it after that day.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it's similar to the principle of "replacing center" (my term for it - I've heard it called "taking center" among other things) in aiki arts, which I assume exists in Judo in a different form. We don't think of it as a vibration, though - it's just a way of moving mass (your center) in to displace other mass (their center).


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> The standard Japanese drills I've experienced for this don't ever talk about using the legs (they focus on the hips and upper body),


It seems to me that CMA emphasizes more on bend legs -> straight legs.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Sounds like it's similar to the principle of "replacing center" (my term for it - I've heard it called "taking center" among other things) in aiki arts, which I assume exists in Judo in a different form. We don't think of it as a vibration, though - it's just a way of moving mass (your center) in to displace other mass (their center).


One of my favor training drills is:

- Your opponent gets you into a head lock.
- You put both arms behind your back, use your belly to bounce him up in the air.

I like the "put both arms behind your back" training method. This way, you won't thinking about to use your arms lifting force.

I find out that many MA skills can be developed by "put both arms behind your back". Since you can't use your arms, you have to use your body.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> The standard Japanese drills I've experienced for this don't ever talk about using the legs (they focus on the hips and upper body), but the way the drills restrict the upper body mean you have to learn to generate the hip motion from the legs. This approach (a mental image of movement that is focused in one area, paired with a restriction in another area to force specific principles) is something I've seen in every area of relatively traditional Japanese MA I've experienced.


If that is typical, then I think it is unfortunate.  Some direct instruction goes a long way.  Expecting people to kinda figure it out means it takes a lot longer than it should, and many people will never figure it out.  It’s a failure of the teacher, to teach.


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## jks9199 (Feb 13, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> If that is typical, then I think it is unfortunate.  Some direct instruction goes a long way.  Expecting people to kinda figure it out means it takes a lot longer than it should, and many people will never figure it out.  It’s a failure of the teacher, to teach.


Sometimes, it's not being unwilling, but not knowing how to teach it.  I've seen a lot of people reach high skill levels, with a lot finesse and subtle technique -- but not know what they are doing. If they're honest, you seem them get frustrated working with students who can't get those subtleties and the teacher just can't show them what they're doing wrong...  If they're not honest, it's uglier.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> If that is typical, then I think it is unfortunate.  Some direct instruction goes a long way.  Expecting people to kinda figure it out means it takes a lot longer than it should, and many people will never figure it out.  It’s a failure of the teacher, to teach.


In some ways, it works well. In other ways, it seems to have exactly the problem you mention. I often wonder if the proper use of the drills was different at one time. Or perhaps it was lost in translation in coming to the US.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 13, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Sometimes, it's not being unwilling, but not knowing how to teach it.





Flying Crane said:


> Some direct instruction goes a long way.


This is why to teach principle/strategy is important. For example, if you teach your students to "attack one leg, then attack the other leg", your students may be able to create new techniques by themselves.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> In some ways, it works well. In other ways, it seems to have exactly the problem you mention. I often wonder if the proper use of the drills was different at one time. Or perhaps it was lost in translation in coming to the US.


The thing is, it isn’t difficult to teach.  Anyone who can describe technique and movement should be able to do it, if they understand it.  It isn’t vague or mystical.  I’ve done it many times here in the forums.

But it does take a methodology to build the skill, and a lot of work.  I guess if there is no methodology in place, then it can be unclear how to proceed. Understanding the goal is one thing, knowing how to achieve it is another.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 14, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> The thing is, it isn’t difficult to teach.  Anyone who can describe technique and movement should be able to do it, if they understand it.  It isn’t vague or mystical.  I’ve done it many times here in the forums.
> 
> But it does take a methodology to build the skill, and a lot of work.  I guess if there is no methodology in place, then it can be unclear how to proceed. Understanding the goal is one thing, knowing how to achieve it is another.


Agreed.

Oddly, I find some of these drills most helpful for folks who struggle with conventional drills, because deliberately trying to use their legs to power, for instance, confuses them. Giving them a drill that has a different focus (but in the end produces the same muscular movement) works better for them. I think it’s because of the way the restrictive part lets them not pay attention to something else.

The most notable example of this was a young woman with a neurological disorder. It wasn’t severe, but did affect her motor coordination. Traditional drills were much easier for her to work with, and got her to proper mechanics. I also find many of them work well for solo practice after they have some kind of grip on the actual mechanics, so I tend to use them either for helping folks who are struggling, or as add-on drills after they’ve started getting the concept.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 14, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Sometimes, it's not being unwilling, but not knowing how to teach it.  I've seen a lot of people reach high skill levels, with a lot finesse and subtle technique -- but not know what they are doing. If they're honest, you seem them get frustrated working with students who can't get those subtleties and the teacher just can't show them what they're doing wrong...  If they're not honest, it's uglier.


In my experience, this is especially true for folks who found it easy to learn. My personal example of this is ukemi (falls and rolls). I was fantastic at them (am still pretty good, but age and lack of practice cut into the skill a good bit). As an instructor, I'm....maybe average at teaching them. I never struggled with them, so don't have a lot of personal experience figuring them out. They are probably the thing I'm worst at teaching. They only saving grace I have is that my primary instructor was the opposite. Over the years, I saw a lot of the tricks he used to help folks who were struggling.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 14, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Oddly, I find some of these drills most helpful for folks who struggle with conventional drills, because deliberately trying to use their legs to power, for instance, confuses them. Giving them a drill that has a different focus (but in the end produces the same muscular movement) works better for them. I think it’s because of the way the restrictive part lets them not pay attention to something else.
> 
> The most notable example of this was a young woman with a neurological disorder. It wasn’t severe, but did affect her motor coordination. Traditional drills were much easier for her to work with, and got her to proper mechanics. I also find many of them work well for solo practice after they have some kind of grip on the actual mechanics, so I tend to use them either for helping folks who are struggling, or as add-on drills after they’ve started getting the concept.


My opinion is that all too often people expect students to pick up the concept and then be able to develop that skill, within the greater context of doing other things.  What ends up happening is that it amounts to lip-service, with very little ground covered.  

What needs to happen is that a series of drills and exercises that progressively develop the skill on its own, and then gradually applies it within the context of other things, like defensive/combative application. But if it isn’t isolated and developed first, most people will never really grasp it and internalize it.  And this is something that we never graduate beyond, meaning it needs to be a constant part of training, always.  We don’t reach a point where we can say, I’ve got that, and no longer need to work on it.  Instead, it always needs polishing and developing.  If it is given that kind of attention, then Absolutely everything that one does is improved at the same time.


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## jks9199 (Feb 14, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> In my experience, this is especially true for folks who found it easy to learn. My personal example of this is ukemi (falls and rolls). I was fantastic at them (am still pretty good, but age and lack of practice cut into the skill a good bit). As an instructor, I'm....maybe average at teaching them. I never struggled with them, so don't have a lot of personal experience figuring them out. They are probably the thing I'm worst at teaching. They only saving grace I have is that my primary instructor was the opposite. Over the years, I saw a lot of the tricks he used to help folks who were struggling.


Oh, yeah... A natural athlete in any sport is very seldom able to explain why or how they do it... For them, they "just do it!"  They don't get that they picked up on a bunch of subtle connections and kinetic links that let them do it, because they didn't have to find them -- they were "naturally" there for them.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 14, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Sometimes, it's not being unwilling, but not knowing how to teach it.  I've seen a lot of people reach high skill levels, with a lot finesse and subtle technique -- but not know what they are doing. If they're honest, you seem them get frustrated working with students who can't get those subtleties and the teacher just can't show them what they're doing wrong...  If they're not honest, it's uglier.


It difficult to teach things that are natural because we do them without thought.  I'm always have this challenge and I don't realize that I left something out until I see the student struggle.  The fix for me is to pay attention to the struggles of the student. Then find out what I'm leaving out.  I have to take a deeper look into what I'm doing and compare it to what I'm saying. Usually I can fill the gaps and teach what's needed.  But sometimes I can't.

Things that suddenly come to understanding and things that I feel my way into are the most difficult to do.  The best time to ask me how that stuff work is when I'm learning it myself.


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## jks9199 (Feb 15, 2022)

Another, related challenge is going back to the basics if you don't do it regularly...  It's sometimes really hard to either drop sublties out or do things "big" enough for a beginner to see them when you've deeply integrated and really smoothed them out.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Feb 15, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Another, related challenge is going back to the basics if you don't do it regularly...  It's sometimes really hard to either drop sublties out or do things "big" enough for a beginner to see them when you've deeply integrated and really smoothed them out.


I stay focused on the basics, that is where the real magic is for me. I drill it into students that there is no real skill without a rock solid foundation.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Feb 15, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Oh, yeah... A natural athlete in any sport is very seldom able to explain why or how they do it... For them, they "just do it!"  They don't get that they picked up on a bunch of subtle connections and kinetic links that let them do it, because they didn't have to find them -- they were "naturally" there for them.


These sorts are exceedingly rare, but I have a couple. One of my 5 year students gets it in an uncanny way.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 15, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Another, related challenge is going back to the basics if you don't do it regularly...  It's sometimes really hard to either drop sublties out or do things "big" enough for a beginner to see them when you've deeply integrated and really smoothed them out.


Basics and foundational material should be 80% of your training, always. I know a lot of people don’t like to hear that.  People often want to do fancy stuff that they think is advanced.  Advanced is simply basics done to a high level of skill.  There really is no separate category of advanced.  I guess I should revise my above statement.  Foundational work and basics should be 80%, and 20% should be basics and foundational material worked from a more complex context.


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## drop bear (Feb 16, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> Another, related challenge is going back to the basics if you don't do it regularly...  It's sometimes really hard to either drop sublties out or do things "big" enough for a beginner to see them when you've deeply integrated and really smoothed them out.



I do a lot of them in this incorrect way that I think helps people understand the nature of the movement a bit easier.

So say for example instead of switching I will do 2 steps


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## J. Pickard (Feb 16, 2022)

FireSnake said:


> Although I'm quite pleased with my progress in learning the basics, I'm still coming up against a limitation: being a bit heavy-footed. As footwork is so foundational, I wanted to tap the experts here on what exercises I could do on my own to be a little less like a human slab of lead and more nimble in footwork. I'm a bit top-heavy from weightlifting, but that is not an excuse since I've seen people with much bigger muscles than me really move. I've got the flexibility and good upper body speed, but it still feels like I've got weights tied to my darn feet!
> 
> Would others recommend jumping exercises? I'm just at a loss for how to improve upon this (I mean, apart from piping helium into my body - lol!). My thanks in advance for everyone's help!


Agility ladders are great. A quick youtube search will give you tons of great ideas on how to use it. If you don't have an agility ladder you can just mark a line on the floor using string, tape, or anything really and it works just as well.


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## jks9199 (Feb 16, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Basics and foundational material should be 80% of your training, always. I know a lot of people don’t like to hear that.  People often want to do fancy stuff that they think is advanced.  Advanced is simply basics done to a high level of skill.  There really is no separate category of advanced.  I guess I should revise my above statement.  Foundational work and basics should be 80%, and 20% should be basics and foundational material worked from a more complex context.





Wing Woo Gar said:


> I stay focused on the basics, that is where the real magic is for me. I drill it into students that there is no real skill without a rock solid foundation.


The heart of my training is basics -- but that doesn't mean it's easy to "back up" to a beginner.  One problem is trying to teach too many of the pieces you know go into a given technique, which means it takes forever (especially in a brand new student's eyes!) to actually teach a single punch.  Another is that there are subtleties that you've integrated and smoothed together and are no longer consciously doing them... but if you don't remember and break them out, the students don't get why things don't work...


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## Wing Woo Gar (Feb 16, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> The heart of my training is basics -- but that doesn't mean it's easy to "back up" to a beginner.  One problem is trying to teach too many of the pieces you know go into a given technique, which means it takes forever (especially in a brand new student's eyes!) to actually teach a single punch.  Another is that there are subtleties that you've integrated and smoothed together and are no longer consciously doing them... but if you don't remember and break them out, the students don't get why things don't work...


Man! That is wonderful expression in writing. It would have taken me 2 pages and 5 tangents to get that point out. I experienced this very thing while teaching last night. I realized that economy of language is as important as content. You put it in perfect perspective.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 16, 2022)

jks9199 said:


> The heart of my training is basics -- but that doesn't mean it's easy to "back up" to a beginner.  One problem is trying to teach too many of the pieces you know go into a given technique, which means it takes forever (especially in a brand new student's eyes!) to actually teach a single punch.  Another is that there are subtleties that you've integrated and smoothed together and are no longer consciously doing them... but if you don't remember and break them out, the students don't get why things don't work...


I agree with the message here.

We actually systematically break it down to teach how the body engages fully, before we ever teach any actual technique/punch.  Understand some full-body mechanics first.  Then, introduce how to use those mechanics to throw a powerful punch.

Then drill the hell out of it.


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## jks9199 (Feb 17, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> I agree with the message here.
> 
> We actually systematically break it down to teach how the body engages fully, before we ever teach any actual technique/punch.  Understand some full-body mechanics first.  Then, introduce how to use those mechanics to throw a powerful punch.
> 
> Then drill the hell out of it.


I often use an analogy of building a road.  If you try to start by making the first foot a perfect, polished road, it'll take forever to get anywhere.  But if you start by marking the path, then clearing it, then laying the foundation, and so on...  you'll get a usable path, that you can then improve.  When I teach a new student, I try to get about 3 keys covered thoroughly first, with a few more mentioned or shown but not focused on.  Then I, each class, or even a few times in the class, I add a little more.  So the first keys might be body position, two hands moving, and the "shape" of the strike (vertical fist, turn fist, hook, etc.).  Later I might add pieces like timing of the wrist turn, lock and release, etc.


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## jks9199 (Feb 17, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Man! That is wonderful expression in writing. It would have taken me 2 pages and 5 tangents to get that point out. I experienced this very thing while teaching last night. I realized that economy of language is as important as content. You put it in perfect perspective.


Thanks for the complement.  I might have explained it a time or two...


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