# Rear Naked Choke



## K-man (Jan 28, 2013)

In another thread we got a bit off topic discussing the rear naked choke and some clips were shown to demonstrate possible ways of escaping. My concern is that the clips shown would not be effective and if you were relying on those to save your life, you might well be disappointed.

What I would like to start with is a clip of one of my favourite 'bad' guys, Bas Rutten.  His no BS approach appeals to my delicate nature.    Although he says the choke may fail, I would hate to be the one with his arm around my neck.  I have some other clips to throw in later but if we might take Bas' example of the lock we are trying to break, that would be a good starting point.   Note in particular, his arm around the back of the neck is on his own shoulder and his back is arched.


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## mook jong man (Jan 28, 2013)

Because he is putting his hand on his bicep there is a slight gap where you might (EMPHASIS ON MIGHT) be able to hook your fingers over the top of his forearm and pull down to stop him cinching up the choke.

If he did the other version that is a lot tighter where you grab your own deltoid , then there is no such gap for you to get your fingers into and your probably going to be choked unconscious.


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## Steve (Jan 28, 2013)

First, protect your neck.  Two on one, tuck your chin and keep it from getting deep.

Second, don't eff with Bas Rutten.

The arm to attack is the one behind the head.  Two in one...  Scrape that arm and pull it down.  An rnc could be finished one armed, but its pretty tough.  

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## Steve (Jan 28, 2013)

One other thing is to drop your weight and create space between your head and his.  It's much harder to choke you if you're further down the chest, and that will give you some room to use your hips to create space and turn back into him.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2013)

That clip didn't show whether his opponent was standing or sat on his hip (or knee). When you apply this technique, you should not allow your opponent to stand on his feet. This way, you have taken most of your opponent's defense away.


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## lklawson (Feb 1, 2013)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That clip didn't show whether his opponent was standing or sat on his hip (or knee). When you apply this technique, you should not allow your opponent to stand on his feet. This way, you have taken most of your opponent's defense away.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## K-man (Feb 1, 2013)

We spent a night playing around with it. It was patently obvious that ignoring the choke and trying to pull the hands away from behind the head was most unlikely to work. Getting one hand in to relieve the pressure followed by the chin tuck gave a reasonable chance of escape. But, when it was applied close under the chin with the 'ratcheting' on the shoulder it was near impossible to do anything. It was also harder for the smaller guy to escape once the lock was partially in place.

i asked my mate who is a BJJ instructor who trains fighters for MMA what he would do. His reply was, "don't let him get it on in the first place. If he puts it on properly you're f****d!"        :asian:


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 1, 2013)

K-man said:


> "don't let him get it on in the first place. If he puts it on properly you're f****d!"        :asian:


There are many techniques that if you let your opponent to get you, it may be too late for you to do anything. Here is another example. 

http://imageshack.us/a/img15/2355/innerblock.jpg


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 1, 2013)

K-man said:


> We spent a night playing around with it. It was patently obvious that ignoring the choke and trying to pull the hands away from behind the head was most unlikely to work. Getting one hand in to relieve the pressure followed by the chin tuck gave a reasonable chance of escape. But, when it was applied close under the chin with the 'ratcheting' on the shoulder it was near impossible to do anything. It was also harder for the smaller guy to escape once the lock was partially in place.
> 
> i asked my mate who is a BJJ instructor who trains fighters for MMA what he would do. His reply was, "don't let him get it on in the first place. If he puts it on properly you're f****d!"        :asian:



Asking how to counter a rear naked choke after it's completely sunk in by someone who knows how to apply it properly is kind of like asking how to counter a groin kick after the opponent's boot has already made contact with your testicles.  The time for the counter is before it lands.


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## Steve (Feb 1, 2013)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Asking how to counter a rear naked choke after it's completely sunk in by someone who knows how to apply it properly is kind of like asking how to counter a groin kick after the opponent's boot has already made contact with your testicles.  The time for the counter is before it lands.



We categorize defenses in three ways:  preemptive, in time and last resort.  Any last resort counter is very likely to fail.  


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## K-man (Feb 2, 2013)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Asking how to counter a rear naked choke after it's completely sunk in by someone who knows how to apply it properly is kind of like asking how to counter a groin kick after the opponent's boot has already made contact with your testicles.  The time for the counter is before it lands.


The reason for the thread was the folk that thought they could escape the choke once it was in place. I reckon that is a really difficult mission. What I did find was, when I could relieve the pressure on the throat I could turn and attack the groin or lash out with the elbow. Also, stepping on the foot helped.    :asian:


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## Cyriacus (Feb 2, 2013)

And this is why you try and hurt their spine first. Its harder to defend against being choked whilst leaning backward.


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## Aiki Lee (Feb 2, 2013)

Steve said:


> One other thing is to drop your weight and create space between your head and his.  It's much harder to choke you if you're further down the chest, and that will give you some room to use your hips to create space and turn back into him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



If done from standing this is also a good way to set up a seio nage as a counter, so long as your timing is right.


I agree that defending after the choke is on is pretty slim, not that I wouldn't try, but a lot of your options are gone.


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## K-man (Feb 2, 2013)

Himura Kenshin said:


> If done from standing this is also a good way to set up a seio nage as a counter, so long as your timing is right.


And, you can drop your centre!


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