# What is Sil Lum Gung Fu?



## DoubleZ711 (Mar 18, 2009)

I tried to google it but nothing very informative came up. So can someone explain to me what kind of style this is?​


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## Jin Gang (Mar 18, 2009)

It's Cantonese for Shaolin kung fu.  Bak Sil Lum is northern shaolin, it's probably the most common type of shaolin kung fu found outside of China.  This is the type of shaolin longfist that is taught by Wing Lam, and by Yang Jwing Ming.


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## punisher73 (Mar 18, 2009)

Strange, I was just looking for the same thing yesterday.  I was reading on Nick Cerio's website that was just put back up that he studied Sil Lum Kung Fu, under a Gan Fong Chin (the Lin Wan Kuen set in his kenpo comes from him).

There is a book by Leo Fong (I think that was the name) that is about Sil Lum and has the set in it.  But, I also could not find anything specific about it other than it was another name for "Shaolin".


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 18, 2009)

I trained Sil Lum Kung Fu for 2 1/2 years before moving. It's a southern style of shaolin/5 animals. It's not exactly the same as northern shaolin though similar. It is a southern style with lower stances and other southern aspects as opposed to the larger movements of northern styles.

http://www.brkfihq.com/sillum.html


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

Jin Gang said:


> It's Cantonese for Shaolin kung fu.



That's it right there... Sil Lum (Siu Lam) is Cantonese for Shao Lin. Nothing more, nothing less.



Jin Gang said:


> Bak Sil Lum is northern shaolin, it's probably the most common type of shaolin kung fu found outside of China.  This is the type of shaolin longfist that is taught by Wing Lam, and by Yang Jwing Ming.



To expand this definition... Bak Siu Lam is what Ku Yu Cheong brought south with him. This is where the famous "10 Sets of Shaolin" along with other stuff he knew resides. Technically it should be called Bak Siu Lum Men since the materials were taught outside of the temple at the gate (Men). This is what Wing Lam, Wong Jack Man, Johnny So, and others ... brought to the US. You find this mainly in Southern China/Hong Kong now. 

Dr Yang teaches the Nanjing curriculum which is also called Nothern Shaolin as a generic, but not wholly incorrect name. It's found predominantly in Taiwan, where he hails from.


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> Strange, I was just looking for the same thing yesterday.  I was reading on Nick Cerio's website that was just put back up that he studied Sil Lum Kung Fu, under a Gan Fong Chin (the Lin Wan Kuen set in his kenpo comes from him).


 
Not familiar with the name Gan Fong Chin, but in reading the little history out there, I always love that storyline. Not saying there's not truth to it, but it almost always ends up being better than life.



punisher73 said:


> There is a book by Leo Fong (I think that was the name) that is about Sil Lum and has the set in it.  But, I also could not find anything specific about it other than it was another name for "Shaolin".



Leo Fong... His book on Siu Lam Kung Fu & the Lin Wan Kuen is based on his studies of Fut Ga. He also wrote a book on a CLF set named Cheong Kuen from the Lau Bun Hung Sing branch of CLF. He learned both in SF's Chinatown back in the day.


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## bowser666 (Mar 18, 2009)

Jin Gang said:


> It's Cantonese for Shaolin kung fu.  Bak Sil Lum is northern shaolin, it's probably the most common type of shaolin kung fu found outside of China.  This is the type of shaolin longfist that is taught by Wing Lam, and by Yang Jwing Ming.




Not to contradict but Dr Yang teaches Chang Chuan ( Long Fist , not Sil LUm ) and Southern White Crane. My Sifu trains with him when time permits. ( Yes he also does taijichuan, chin na , etc......)


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## shesulsa (Mar 18, 2009)

Staff Note:

Thread moved to Southern Chinese systems from General Martial Arts talk.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator


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## sparky12 (Mar 18, 2009)

I have always been taught by my Sifu, who studied under Master Hue, and it is the same taught by wing lam that there are 5 schools of shaolin. Ca, Fa, Pa, Wa, and Sil-Lum. I believe the Pa is Pakua and the Wa is Wah-Lum. I study Bak Sil-Lum ( Art of  Shaolin), but I don't know what the other 2 are. I don't know if this is any help or not, but I believe you can find this listed in the book Plum Flower Fist Form by Wing Lam.


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

sparky12 said:


> I have always been taught by my Sifu, who studied under Master Hue, and it is the same taught by wing lam that there are 5 schools of shaolin. Ca, Fa, Pa, Wa, and Sil-Lum. I believe the Pa is Pakua and the Wa is Wah-Lum. I study Bak Sil-Lum ( Art of  Shaolin), but I don't know what the other 2 are. I don't know if this is any help or not, but I believe you can find this listed in the book Plum Flower Fist Form by Wing Lam.



ehhhh.....

There are 5 major families in Southern Shaolin (Siu Lam)... Hung, Choy, Mok, Li, Fut.

There are 5 major Nothern long fist styles that went into creating the modern PRC Chang Quan... Hong, Hua, Pao, Zha & Shaolin.

Wahlum is a critter unto itself. 

Generally the most common Bagua is an internal art that's really got no connection to the Shaolin umbrella.

Wing Lam teaches/taught the Ku Yu Cheong Buk Siu Lum Men curriculum.


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## Rabu (Mar 18, 2009)

CLFSean has the root of it.

"Sil Lum" and "Shao Lin" are the same, different dialects.

If you have more detail on the school, or teacher, then a better answer can be offered to you.

"Shao Lin" is almost generic in its scope.  Read some articles about the history of classification of chinese martial arts to understand how poorly the branches are understood in general.

Rob


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## sparky12 (Mar 18, 2009)

clfsean said:


> ehhhh.....
> 
> There are 5 major families in Southern Shaolin (Siu Lam)... Hung, Choy, Mok, Li, Fut.
> 
> ...


 
Sometimes these things are hard to decypher as Master Hue speaks very little english. Thanks for the clarification.
Regards, Don


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

It's all good...


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 18, 2009)

I study Sil Lum Kung Fu. My teacher chose to call it by the Cantonese pronounciation because we live in the same town as Shaolin Do's main school (Lexington, Ky) is in and we *DID NOT* want to be confused with a Grandmaster Sin The' (Shaolin Do) school or have people think we are in any way associated with SD.   We aren't a McDojo like they are.


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> I study Sil Lum Kung Fu. My teacher chose to call it by the Cantonese pronounciation because we live in the same town as Shaolin Do's main school (Lexington, Ky) is in and we *DID NOT* want to be confused with a Grandmaster Sin The' (Shaolin Do) school or have people think we are in any way associated with SD.   We aren't a McDojo like they are.



Dude... seriously... let it go...


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 18, 2009)

clfsean said:


> Dude... seriously... let it go...


 
He, he, he, he.......Dude, I posted that just for you clf.  I couldn't resist. It is my goal to make all the Sin The' cool aid drinkers come to their senses.


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> He, he, he, he.......Dude, I posted that just for you clf.  I couldn't resist. It is my goal to make all the Sin The' cool aid drinkers come to their senses.



Well... you won't... they do what they want to do... the rest of us have to suffer from your crusade... 

leave the windmills alone Don Quixote, leave them alone...


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 18, 2009)

okay okay I'll let it go......for about a minute.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 18, 2009)

Minutes up.....Do you know that Sin The' claims to have mastered over 900 forms.  Unbelievable.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 18, 2009)

Ok guys. Can we return the original topic please?


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 18, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> Ok guys. Can we return the original topic please?


 

Sure.  Sorry....lol.

*Sil Lum* (shaolin) *Kung Fu* - tiger, crane, leopard, snake, and dragon
A lot of what I have learned came from the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien province & from Ng family style kung fu (*Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng*). I've kind of learned a mixture of the two. Ng family style is very similiar to 5 animals of Shaolin but is heavily influenced by 6 Harmonies. *http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxliuhe.htm*

On a side note....the two teachers (Ng & Dufresne) mentioned in the link I provided on 6 Harmonies are both my teachers. I studied under GM Ng for 3 yrs and still study under Sifu Dufresne.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 18, 2009)

JadeDragon3 said:


> Sure.  Sorry....lol.
> 
> Sil Lum (shaolin) Kung Fu - tiger, crane, leopard, snake, and dragon
> A lot of what I have learned came from the Southern Shaolin Temple near Fukien province & from Ng family style kung fu (Grandmaster John Wing Lok Ng). I've kind of learned a mixture of the two.



Have you heard of Rick Ward by any chance? He's located in Boone, NC. It was at one of his branch schools in Tennessee that I trained at. My Sifu was Chris Laing. He told me, as has been said, that Sil Lum is Shaolin in Cantonese. But he also taught us that we used lower stances and shorter movements in the southern style. For instance, we would learn a technique or a form, and he would say, "We do it like this. Northern does it like this", and would demonstrate. Very similar movements, but not the same. 

I'm having a real hard time articulating it so I hope I'm making sense. FWIW, I loved training it.  Not to discredit the style at all because I truly love it, but I do find the SPM I switched to to be better suited to the street with less time in training. As beginners/intermediate, we supplemented our Sil Lum with various other "control" techinques. I absolutely LOVED the forms but I was only learning the 3rd form after 2 1/2 years and still had much to learn about the applications of technique in the form. We were taught them as we learned but my muscle memory was still undeveloped and I found that when sparring I would often revert to a control technique rather than a form technique.

It's nice to see Sil Lum discussed. Okay folks, carry on.


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin

End of explanation there.

JT... I looked at the website you gave earlier. It looked like Ark Wong's Ng Ying Ng Ga style.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 18, 2009)

clfsean said:


> Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
> Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin
> 
> End of explanation there.
> ...



That's what Sifu said too, about Sil Lum vs. Shaolin. Yes, the lineage goes back to Ark Wong.  I used to have a chart of it, but alas, cannot find it now. (Of course when I want to post it, lol) Murphy's Law right?


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## clfsean (Mar 18, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> That's what Sifu said too, about Sil Lum vs. Shaolin. Yes, the lineage goes back to Ark Wong.  I used to have a chart of it, but alas, cannot find it now. (Of course when I want to post it, lol) Murphy's Law right?



If you were doing the Ng Ying Ng Ga, it's southern. 

Course... the SPM you do now is southern too... just different...


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 19, 2009)

clfsean said:


> If you were doing the Ng Ying Ng Ga, it's southern.
> 
> Course... the SPM you do now is southern too... just different...



Yeah, I knew it was Southern and that's why Sifu said we used Sil Lum instead of Shaolin and stressed the differences in our forms. All of the terms we used in class were Cantonese. I was a beginner at the time, you know much more about what I was training than I did! lol It was just Sil Lum Kung Fu to me (I'm sure if I dug up my notes it's in there somewhere). But that's why I've always respected your opinions. :asian:


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## clfsean (Mar 19, 2009)

Jade Tigress said:


> Yeah, I knew it was Southern and that's why Sifu said we used Sil Lum instead of Shaolin and stressed the differences in our forms. All of the terms we used in class were Cantonese. I was a beginner at the time, you know much more about what I was training than I did! lol It was just Sil Lum Kung Fu to me (I'm sure if I dug up my notes it's in there somewhere). But that's why I've always respected your opinions. :asian:



You give me too much credit. I know a few things about a few things is all. What I do know I'm certain about, what I don't know I listen & learn.


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## Ben Grimm (Mar 24, 2009)

But there are many forms of Siu Lam Kuen. I only know of a few, such as Hung Ga, Lohan Kuen, Ying Jow. I only know of them by name and very little about from and/or application.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 24, 2009)

Whats up Ben?


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## bowser666 (Mar 26, 2009)

So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ?  Wu Xing Chuan ?  ( Shaolin 5 Animals )   If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature.  I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.


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## blindsage (Mar 26, 2009)

Bowser, I think you misunderstood the discussion.



clfsean said:


> Siu Lum (Sil Lum) = Young Forest == Cantonese
> Shao Lin = Young Forest == Mandarin
> 
> End of explanation there.


 
I believe what you study is the same. Siu Lum is the southern (Cantonese) word for Shao Lin. Wu Xian Chuan I'm guessing means 5 Animals Fist, which would not contradict the above statement. If correct then the full name of your style would be Shao Lin Wu Xian Chuan.


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## Jin Gang (Mar 26, 2009)

Maybe now that it has been understood that Sil Lum is the Cantonese way of saying Shao Lin, we need to talk about what Shao Lin is, and how it relates to Chinese martial arts in general.  It seems some people may not know about this yet.
 As the word is used today, Shaolin does not exclusively describe any single school or style.  The Shaolin temple on Songshan mountain is the legendary birthplace of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism and also became famous for the martial arts practiced there, everyone probably knows this already.  What may not be known is that the actual styles taught there over the centuries were not necessarily consistent, nor were they necessarily invented by monks.  A common belief supported by historical evidence is that over the years, generals, officials, soldiers, and other various lay-people visited and stayed at the temple at various times.  Over the years, different styles were exchanged and changed and evolved, as always happens.  Through the centuries, people came to the temple, shared and learned different types of martial arts, and then went out into the world again.  Sometime during the fall of the Ming and the rise of the Qing dynasty, the temple was destroyed and its inhabitants scattered throughout the country (there were other times it was destroyed as well, but this was the one that all the stories and movies are about).  This event is cited in the history of most styles as the time when one of the survivors of the temple came to their part of the country and started teaching shaolin martial arts.  
   And then there is the legend about the southern shaolin temple in Fujian province.  Some people say there was a secondary temple started, maybe before the Qing destruction and maybe afterwards, where new martial arts evolved.  Some people think the legend about the destruction and the five ancestors is actually referring to the southern temple, not the original one in the north.  
  There are a large number of different Chinese martial arts which use the name shaolin or trace their lineage back to shaolin.  This might be one reason why some people have said that shaolin is the "birthplace" of all Chinese martial arts.  Really, I don't think it was the birthplace but maybe more of a distribution center.  
  In the north, most longfist styles are or claim to be from shaolin, such as hong quan, tai tzu chang quan, hua quan.  In the south, Hung Gar Kuen and similar related styles claim a shaolin legacy as well as Choy Li Fut, Fujian white crane, wing chun, five ancestors fist and other similar styles.  The five animals are something mainly seen in these southern styles.
There are longfist lineages in the south of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan as well, and these will look different than the longfist styles in the north.
  This is only the briefest of overviews, the relationships and origins of all these styles can get complicated.  But the main point is, that the name "shaolin" or "sil lum" is so widespread that it really doesn't indicate anything about the content of the style using it.


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## Tez3 (Mar 26, 2009)

I never understood any of the discussion, I just love reading it because of all the names. Seriously!


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## clfsean (Mar 27, 2009)

bowser666 said:


> So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ?  Wu Xing Chuan ?  ( Shaolin 5 Animals )   If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature.  I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.



Just to add to what JingGang & Blindsage wrote, Sil Lum isn't 5 animals. 5 Animals is 5 Animals. Siu Lum is Siu Lum. You may study Siu Lum Ng Ying Kuen (Shaolin Wu Xing Quan), which is to say "Shaolin's 5 Animals" but that's not to say "All 5 Animals are Shaolin" or "Shaolin is 5 Animals".

Besides that, there are a few systems that can actually claim Siu Lum & 5 Animals as the foundation of what they are and the majority of them don't "play up" the fact. Yes it's acknowledged & recognized, but that's not what they consider the "selling" point of the style, just a foundation point.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 27, 2009)

bowser666 said:


> So let me ask this question then, if Sil Lum Is Southern 5 Animals, where does my style fall into ? Wu Xing Chuan ? ( Shaolin 5 Animals ) If i am unclear my schools website is in my signature. I am still having difficulty grasping the multitude of styles found in China.


 
Dude, here is a chart showing your lineage. http://www.swyi.com/lineage.htm What don't you understand? http://www.swyi.com/history.htm  According to the chart your style comes from Shaolin Temple. They taught more than just 5 animals. And there were more than one temple. Each temple taught different things. any further questions I suggest you ask your sifu.


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## Mei Hua (Apr 6, 2009)

Jin Gang said:


> Maybe now that it has been understood that Sil Lum is the Cantonese way of saying Shao Lin, we need to talk about what Shao Lin is, and how it relates to Chinese martial arts in general.  It seems some people may not know about this yet.
> As the word is used today, Shaolin does not exclusively describe any single school or style.  The Shaolin temple on Songshan mountain is the legendary birthplace of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism and also became famous for the martial arts practiced there, everyone probably knows this already.  What may not be known is that the actual styles taught there over the centuries were not necessarily consistent, nor were they necessarily invented by monks.  A common belief supported by historical evidence is that over the years, generals, officials, soldiers, and other various lay-people visited and stayed at the temple at various times.  Over the years, different styles were exchanged and changed and evolved, as always happens.  Through the centuries, people came to the temple, shared and learned different types of martial arts, and then went out into the world again.  Sometime during the fall of the Ming and the rise of the Qing dynasty, the temple was destroyed and its inhabitants scattered throughout the country (there were other times it was destroyed as well, but this was the one that all the stories and movies are about).  This event is cited in the history of most styles as the time when one of the survivors of the temple came to their part of the country and started teaching shaolin martial arts.
> And then there is the legend about the southern shaolin temple in Fujian province.  Some people say there was a secondary temple started, maybe before the Qing destruction and maybe afterwards, where new martial arts evolved.  Some people think the legend about the destruction and the five ancestors is actually referring to the southern temple, not the original one in the north.
> There are a large number of different Chinese martial arts which use the name shaolin or trace their lineage back to shaolin.  This might be one reason why some people have said that shaolin is the "birthplace" of all Chinese martial arts.  Really, I don't think it was the birthplace but maybe more of a distribution center.
> ...


Good post, but just a quick note
Lohan, is particularly a Shaolin style created at and by Shaolin.
Of all the systems that are a part of Shaolin , Lohan can be traced as being the sole true style of the system.


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