# Lineage of Kung-Fu San Soo



## San Soo Sifu (Apr 16, 2007)

*"History, at best, can only be known with a high degree of probability."--- Master Greg Jones*

*I know for some people, no amount of "evidence" will be enough for them.*

*"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." *

*However, be that as it may... *

*Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo *
*(Lo Si Fu Chin Siu Dek; Sei-yap or Toisanese) *
*(Lau Si Fu Chan Sau Zoek; Cantonese) *
*(Lao Shi Fu Chen Shou Jue; Mandarin) *

*...spoke often of his great uncle Chin Siu Hung (Sei-yap or Toisanese) - Chan Shui Hung (Cantonese; Hong Kong) - Chen Shou Xiong (Mandarin; Beijing). *

*Great uncle Chin Siu Hung was Jimmy H. Woo's (Chin Siu Dek's) primary instructor when Jimmy was growing up (although not his *only* instructor; other family members assisted too). *

*This article was first written in 1982 by Master Sam Silva. I have a Xerox, hard copy of the original article. *

*http://www.calvaryccv.org/kungfufighttolive.htm*

*The important point here to remember is that Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo was talking to his students about his great uncle Chin Siu Hung since *before* 1982, and the age of the Internet. (Jimmy died in 1991 from old age.) *

*--------------------------------------*

*Now, here is a link to an old web page, using the way back machine. *

*http://web.archive.org/web/200103100...lf_origins.htm*

*On this web page it says, "In the last two years alone, he (Paul Chan) has visited Master Chan Sai Mo in Guangdong province. Chan Sai Mo is the son of Chan Shui Hung, the latter of which was the stepson of Chan Heung." *

*Look at this old web page, which also was from the way back machine. It has Chan Shui Hung and Chan Sai Mo listed on the lineage chart. *

*http://web.archive.org/web/200103100...lf_lineage.htm*

*Chan Sai Mo (Chen Shi Wu; Mandarin) is the son of Chan Shui Hung; and Chan Shui Hung was Jimmy H. Woo's great uncle. Chan Sai Mo is Jimmy H. Woo's second cousin.*

*Let me repeat the obvious, Chin Siu Hung - Chan Shui Hung - Chen Shou Xiong was the great uncle of Chin Siu Dek - Chan Sau Zoek - Chen Shou Jue (Jimmy H. Woo).*

*-------------------------------*

*A few years ago, I was able to find the following message thread at this URL link (no longer valid, though):*

*http://www.clfma.com/modules.php?op=...c&topic=158&11*

*A poster asked about the relationship of Chin Siu Hung to Chan Heung.*

*Here is part of that poster's (CLFNole) question, "I read somewhere about a CLF sifu named Chan Siu Hung. He was supposed to be Chan Hueng's stepson."*

*Here is part of the answer by the forum moderator (Sisuk Howard Choy):*

*"Chan Siu Hung was not a stepson of Chan Heung, but an adopted son, and he was such a model disciple that Chapter 46 of The History of Choy Lee Fut, written by Chan Yiu Chi was devoted to him. *

*He was well known for his diligence and perseverance in practice and for his loyalty and moral behaviour. Chan Heung and Chan Koon Pak often talked about him and he was treated like a family member. *

*He was born poor not knowing his parents and worked as a repairer of carrying baskets. Chan Heung not only taught him Martial Arts but also medicine and gave him the name Chan Siu Hung. Through his own effect he became first a dit-da doctor and sold herbal medicine in the street with his martial skill. Later he had his own clinic and Choy Lee Fut school in Toishan. His specialty was steel chain whip (yuen bin) and the rope dart (fei tor)."*

*Reading of all of this caused myself to request a copy of that book, The History of Choy Lee Fut written by Chan Yiu Chi.*

*Sisuk Howard Choy gave a reply, which part of it is as follows:*

*"Sifu Jon Surritt, like others, has asked for a copy of Chan Yiu Chi manuscript The History of Choy Lee Fut where the mention of Chan Siu Hung appeared. Unfortunately, it is not available to the public. However, I will try to do a full translation of Chapter 46 and post it here in the near future."*

*Here is where you can find Sisuk Howard Choy's translation, plus a copy of the original Chinese characters written by Chan Yiu Chi.*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...hinsiuhung.htm*

*The History of Choy Lee Fut (chapter 46) written by Chan Yiu Chi.*

*Translated by Sisuk Howard Choy, July 2002. *

*(Chan Siu Hung) practiced his skills with perseverance and attached importance to loyalty and righteousness. Unlike others, he practiced relentlessly and believed nothing is impossible if a person puts his mind to it. *

*Chan Siu Hung was nicknamed Dian Chi (or Crazy Chi  Chi was a man of antiquity who feared that the sky would fall). He worked as a repairer of carry-baskets and first studied with my father (Chan Koon Pak) at Chow Yung Jo (a village in Xin Hui). His patience and loyalty impressed my father so much that after many years of tuition he was not only taught the Kung-Fu skills but also herbal medicine and Dit-Da. *

*(Chan Koon Pak) suggested that he should change his profession to selling medicine in the street, and gave him the name Siu Hung. He became quite well-known in the surrounding district but was always courteous and respectful, and never used his skills to showoff. He always acknowledged Chan Heung Gung as his Si-Jo and Chan Koon Pak as his Sifu. *

*Later he retired from traveling the lakes and rivers and settled down in Toi-Shan City, Sai-Yup County. I have heard that his specialty was the Yuen Bin (Chain Whip) and Fei Tor (Rope Dart). *

*(Chan Siu Hung demonstrates that) if a person can study continuously and is of good faith and character, he can become a useful person.*

*-----------------------------------------*

*Also, if you go to this web site, you will see Chan Siu Hung's name listed on it, on page 2, under Chan Koon Pak's lineage.*

*http://www.liiuling.net.au/pdf/CLFlineages.pdf*

*------------------------------------------*

*Here are some interrelated lineage charts from the people who support & promote the area of Taishan, China. *

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea.../tree/tree.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree1.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree2.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree3.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree4.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree5.htm*

*http://www.taishan.com/english/resea...tree/tree6.htm*

*I wanted to add that the Taishan.com interrelated lineage charts also have linking icons where possible. *

*For what it's worth, on this web page of Taishan.com:*
*http://www.taishan.com/english/people/index.htm*

*Grand Master Jimmy H. Woo (Lo Sifu Chin Siu Dek) is listed fourth on a list of important people to have immigrated from Taishan, China.*

*For those who are intellectually honest, then maybe at least I have provided you with some food for thought.*


----------



## San Soo Sifu (Apr 16, 2007)

P.S. My name is Jon Surritt.  I live in Salem, Oregon, USA.  It is nice to be a new member here, and I hope I get the chance to get to know some (most) of you.  Thank you.


----------



## kidswarrior (Apr 16, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> P.S. My name is Jon Surritt.  I live in Salem, Oregon, USA.  It is nice to be a new member here, and I hope I get the chance to get to know some (most) of you.  Thank you.



Welcome, Sifu Jon! You may want to go to the 'Meet and Greet' section and post this as well.


----------



## Jade Tigress (Apr 17, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> P.S. My name is Jon Surritt.  I live in Salem, Oregon, USA.  It is nice to be a new member here, and I hope I get the chance to get to know some (most) of you.  Thank you.



Welcome to Martial Talk.


----------



## L Canyon (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks for the info - nice to see San Soo here.

I study with paul Borisoff in Reseda, CA.


----------



## San Soo Sifu (Apr 21, 2007)

Thank you kidswarrior & Jade Tigress for the warm welcome. 

L Canyon, is that for Laurel Canyon? As in the old studio on Laurel Canyon? Were you an original student under Master Chuck Cory? Just curious.


----------



## Tames D (Apr 21, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> P.S. My name is Jon Surritt. I live in Salem, Oregon, USA. It is nice to be a new member here, and I hope I get the chance to get to know some (most) of you. Thank you.


Hey Jon - Welcome to the site. There are a few of us San Soo guys running around here trying to stay out of trouble.


----------



## San Soo Sifu (Apr 23, 2007)

Thank you QUI-GON for the welcome. (I will try and stay out of trouble too!):angel:


----------



## tikene (Apr 26, 2007)

The images on your website are pretty cool. I'm a newbie to this board. I especially like the torn scroll left nav images.  8)


----------



## L Canyon (May 18, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> Thank you kidswarrior & Jade Tigress for the warm welcome.
> 
> L Canyon, is that for Laurel Canyon? As in the old studio on Laurel Canyon? Were you an original student under Master Chuck Cory? Just curious.



No - I am sorry  - it's just a name I made up. My instructor used to study with Master Cory in North Hollywood.


----------



## Yeti (May 23, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> Thank you QUI-GON for the welcome. (I will try and stay out of trouble too!):angel:


 
Welcome to MT! Great post. 
But what's with trying to stay out of trouble?...It's always easier to apologize than to ask for permission!


----------



## kidswarrior (May 23, 2007)

Yeti said:


> Welcome to MT! Great post.
> But what's with trying to stay out of trouble?...It's always easier to apologize than to ask for permission!



Bad Yeti, bad. Don't you know you never want to say sic'em to a San Soo guy-or gal. :hammer: :lol:


----------



## Nobody (May 24, 2007)

I think at about the end of the 1800s there seems to have been a change in there record keeping method for the people of Martial Arts an for people from specific style to.  At this time i think is when they really started to have the emotional wall up in China do to the Empress.  The society seems to have been more closed right when it would have done the most good for them as a country to be able to trade openly with other country's.  This from a nation that had created the first form of paper money in the 800, also the first kiln that had a double baffle 400, also the first china(porc do to the double baffle, also the first form of economy that had less use for metal money, also the the cross bow 1200, also print an movable type 1000, also the tooth brush the spoon the beat goes on the beat goes on goes on an on even aqueducts.

Owe yea, excuse the rant hello San Soo Sifu. Enjoy the threads.


----------



## Yeti (May 24, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Bad Yeti, bad. Don't you know you never want to say sic'em to a San Soo guy-or gal. :hammer: :lol:


You'll get my back right?....(right?...)


----------



## kidswarrior (May 24, 2007)

Yeti said:


> You'll get my back right?....(right?...)


 *Of course!* As long as _my _back is working that day....**goes away mumbling**


----------



## Yeti (May 25, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> *Of course!* As long as _my _back is working that day....**goes away mumbling**


 
I like those odds!


----------



## Karatedrifter7 (Jul 3, 2007)

That's interesting, quite a lineage. Now I've got a question? As it turns out Jimmy Woo was also an early Kenpo father. At least from the Tracy site they  claim there's a decent amount of Jimmy's techniques in Kenpo today.
Now my question is, because unfortunatly San Soo isint in New Mexico-- do you make frequent use of the (bow stance) in San Soo? Because its everything in the Kenpo I presently take.


----------



## San Soo Sifu (Jul 3, 2007)

James Wing Woo (Jimmy W. Woo) had the business relationship with Ed Parker.

Jimmy H. Woo (passport & forged papers name) = Chin Siu Dek (real name in China) was the Grand Master of Tsoi Li Hoi Fut Hung Kung-Fu San Soo; and taught publicly for over 30 + years in El Monte, California.


----------



## kidswarrior (Jul 4, 2007)

San Soo Sifu said:


> James Wing Woo (Jimmy W. Woo) had the business relationship with Ed Parker.
> 
> Jimmy H. Woo (passport & forged papers name) = Chin Siu Dek (real name in China) was the Grand Master of Tsoi Li Hoi Fut Hung Kung-Fu San Soo; and taught publicly for over 30 + years in El Monte, California.



Yes, thank you *SSS*. It's my understanding though, that Jimmy H Woo and Ed Parker were friendly, although I've heard of no business dealings nor techniques or other materials being exchanged.


----------

