# What Would You Think?



## wingchun100 (Jun 2, 2014)

Normally I try not to get into personal stuff on here, although I did with a post about my mother-in-law. Something happened that I wanted to see what you people thought of. What does it say that I come to a website full of strangers to ask about this instead of family or friend? More than I care to admit LOL.

Anyway, I am going to try and give only enough info that you need to understand the situation. Wife and I have been having problems. These arguments don't stem from us not getting along on our own; they stem from some things that happened with my son (who I had by the girlfriend immediately prior to my wife). Different views on these issues (I'd rather not get into all of THAT) have caused quite a few heated debates between us, and we don't see to be able to reach an agreement on our own.

There is no one we can ask to mediate. Her mom doesn't like me; my mom doesn't like her; her dad hibernates in his room all the time to avoid this crap; MY dad is very ill and I would feel guilty dumping it all on him.

The only solution left: go to someone who gets paid to be dumped on!

So I contacted my therapist (who I have known since senior year of high school, 1993-1994) and set up an appointment. I told my wife it is next Thursday and asked if she could get someone to watch our son so she could go with me.

Her response?

"Yeah I guess."

Pardon me? you GUESS? 

And that response is what I came to poll people about. What does that response even mean? It is clearly less than enthusiastic, but why? If we are unable to solve our problems on our own and I found an impartial party who can help, why would you respond that way? Is it a case of too much pride? Is she someone who feels like a failure because she needed a "shrink" to solve her problems? Is it the length of time I have known him? Maybe she feels he would be biased toward admitting I am always right. (If it is that, then he will quickly dispel that myth once we get talking.)

I don't know. Her blah kind of response makes me worry I am on a sinking ship. I guess I will know for sure next Thursday though, huh?

Sorry to dump on you folks, but I really have nowhere else to vent. :-(


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## seasoned (Jun 2, 2014)

"Yeah I guess." Is less then enthusiastic, and a third party would be good. But, not someone you have known since senior year of high school. It needs to be someone that neither of you know, so you can start from square one.....  (Just my personal opinion).


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## Steve (Jun 2, 2014)

I have two quick thoughts... well, three really.

First, I'm glad you guys are working this out and hope you get through this.

Second, that she didn't immediately reject the idea is a HUGE plus.  That she's going to the therapist with you is a bonus.  Don't get hung up on whether she was excited about it.

Third, kids and how to raise them is, in my opinion, one of the MUST HAVE conversations needed prior to marriage.  You have to be on the same page before you get married, or if not, certainly BEFORE you have kids together.  Or your marriage is in trouble.  It sounds like your son was part of the package for your current wife, but where kids are involved, you are marrying them, too.  It's not negotiable.  

Ultimately, as I said before, I'm glad you guys are going to see a pro.  Hope it works out.  Good luck.


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## Steve (Jun 2, 2014)

seasoned said:


> "Yeah I guess." Is less then enthusiastic, and a third party would be good. But, not someone you have known since senior year of high school. It needs to be someone that neither of you know, so you can start from square one.....  (Just my personal opinion).


This sounds like good advice.


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## EddieCyrax (Jun 2, 2014)

Clarifying questions.....Did she know you were seeking out counciling? Did this come as a surprise?  Did she have any input into the councilor?

Based on your answers to these questions a "Yeah I guess" could be very appropriate.......At least it wasnt a H^&# NO!


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## ballen0351 (Jun 2, 2014)

Knowing how my wife is the "I guess" part wasnt for the therapy its that you set it up and then asked her to find child care.  If your going to take charge and set things up dont do half the job.  Thats like planning a nice date and saying oh but you find a sitter.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

seasoned said:


> "Yeah I guess." Is less then enthusiastic, and a third party would be good. But, not someone you have known since senior year of high school. It needs to be someone that neither of you know, so you can start from square one.....  (Just my personal opinion).



The only thing I worry about with the square one idea is getting someone that either one of us thinks is terrible, then having to start our search anew. I understand the suggestion, but I think this guy is able to be impartial. We'll see.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

Steve said:


> I have two quick thoughts... well, three really.
> 
> First, I'm glad you guys are working this out and hope you get through this.
> 
> ...



I just want to clarify it has nothing to do with actually raising him. The stress comes from the fact that sometimes kids don't like stepparents...sometimes kids will tell lies to get out of seeing those stepparents...sometimes those lies are of a horrible nature...and sometimes those lies will cause trouble for the stepparent. Unfortunately, what my son is too young to realize is (1) how damaging and hurtful such lies are, and (2) that if it causes trouble for my wife, it causes trouble for me too.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

EddieCyrax said:


> Clarifying questions.....Did she know you were seeking out counciling? Did this come as a surprise?  Did she have any input into the councilor?
> 
> Based on your answers to these questions a "Yeah I guess" could be very appropriate.......At least it wasnt a H^&# NO!



She knew I was going to go to him. After the last argument we had, I told her we needed to see him, and we have actually gone to him before (once...ages ago). We have both been through a lot, and we can't seem to reach an agreement on certain things. I suggest a plan and she shoots it down, but does not suggest an alternative. So I keep coming up with ideas...which keep getting shot down AGAIN with no alternative suggestions. I can take only so much of that before I start to get a little frustrated, which causes anger and resentment....yeah, we need third party help.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Knowing how my wife is the "I guess" part wasnt for the therapy its that you set it up and then asked her to find child care.  If your going to take charge and set things up dont do half the job.  Thats like planning a nice date and saying oh but you find a sitter.



I would if it weren't for the fact that anyone I suggest to watch him isn't "good enough!" (Yet ANOTHER issue to be worked on: I am a fairly intelligent guy. There is no way EVERY suggestion I have is always a bad one!)


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## ballen0351 (Jun 3, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> I would if it weren't for the fact that anyone I suggest to watch him isn't "good enough!" (Yet ANOTHER issue to be worked on: I am a fairly intelligent guy. There is no way EVERY suggestion I have is always a bad one!)


I understand that but its your kid too man sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask permission.  Less excuses more action


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> I understand that but its your kid too man sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask permission.  Less excuses more action



So I should cause yet another fight because I want someone to watch our son that she is dead set against? The main person I would ask would be my mom but, because she and my mom don't get along, she doesn't want him there. But then she will also turn around and criticize her for not wanting to spend any time with him! What happens when I point out "you won't let him?" Well, results vary, but I can tell you it is never pleasant. Whenever you corner someone and prove their logic is faulty (yeah, let's go with that adjective), their usual response is to fight back with anything they can, even if the majority of those comebacks fall below the belt. Then again all is fair in love and war, right?


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

At any rate, that is a whole other issue. (Often I find the main problem with talking about personal things on here isn't so much the fact that people feel like they are being dumped on, but it is damn near IMPOSSIBLE to share the full story. Without that, how can anyone really understand what anyone else is going through?) The whole point was to just see what other people would feel about the reaction I got toward the appointment.


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## K-man (Jun 3, 2014)

OK. I went through a marriage breakup where I was the one who decided to call it quits. We had counselling at my ex's insistence. Maybe a more skilled counsellor could have engineered a different outcome but instead of being independent the counsellor sided with my ex, not criticising or blaming, but labelling me as angry and the depressed. I don't think I was either but the guy just pissed me off. As a result I turned off and that was the end of the penny section.  

I guess what I'm saying is be very careful with your choice of counsellor because if he upsets your wife instead of being truly balanced it might be really counter productive. Being male, we expect a counsellor to tell our partners that we are right, but that is not what counsellors do. Tread lightly.
:asian:


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

K-man said:


> OK. I went through a marriage breakup where I was the one who decided to call it quits. We had counselling at my ex's insistence. Maybe a more skilled counsellor could have engineered a different outcome but instead of being independent the counsellor sided with my ex, not criticising or blaming, but labelling me as angry and the depressed. I don't think I was either but the guy just pissed me off. As a result I turned off and that was the end of the penny section.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is be very careful with your choice of counsellor because if he upsets your wife instead of being truly balanced it might be really counter productive. Being male, we expect a counsellor to tell our partners that we are right, but that is not what counsellors do. Tread lightly.
> :asian:



We have gone together in the past. Then things quieted down for a while, but now they have flared up again. At any rate, he hasn't hesitated to tell me I am wrong, whether it is during a solo OR couple session. But the jury is out.


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## Buka (Jun 3, 2014)

My guess is a lot of us have been in situations similar. Not "the same" because relationships have more differences than Martial Arts schools. I think the most important thing is you both want the relationship to be better. I wouldn't focus on her "I guess" too much, just keep your eye on the goal of a better relationship. Patience is key. As well as not letting your "inner guy" out without some emotional restraint. Especially where there are other family members involved - and we all know how that is.

My heart is with you, brother. Best of luck going forward and maybe take a deep breath as the others in the equation irritate the whole damn thing, which seems to be standard practice in families - try not to get sucked in.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 3, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> So I should cause yet another fight because I want someone to watch our son that she is dead set against? The main person I would ask would be my mom but, because she and my mom don't get along, she doesn't want him there. But then she will also turn around and criticize her for not wanting to spend any time with him! What happens when I point out "you won't let him?" Well, results vary, but I can tell you it is never pleasant. Whenever you corner someone and prove their logic is faulty (yeah, let's go with that adjective), their usual response is to fight back with anything they can, even if the majority of those comebacks fall below the belt. Then again all is fair in love and war, right?


If your wife cant trust you enough to find an appropriate person to watch your own kid then you may have issues beyond therapy.  Sometimes its better for all parties to walk away before it gets too bad.  I go to the same houses over and over again and people basically hate each other but neither will take the step to end it because they fear the unknown.  Its better for kids to have 2 good parents that are separated then 2 parents that are together that hat each other.  No saying your at that point yet but if you cant even agree on a sitter for a few hours then...........


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

Buka said:


> My guess is a lot of us have been in situations similar. Not "the same" because relationships have more differences than Martial Arts schools. I think the most important thing is you both want the relationship to be better. I wouldn't focus on her "I guess" too much, just keep your eye on the goal of a better relationship. Patience is key. As well as not letting your "inner guy" out without some emotional restraint. Especially where there are other family members involved - and we all know how that is.
> 
> My heart is with you, brother. Best of luck going forward and maybe take a deep breath as the others in the equation irritate the whole damn thing, which seems to be standard practice in families - try not to get sucked in.



I just want to say I am amazed at the support I get from so many on this site. On any other, I might get bashed for opening up about my problems, but here I have seen nothing but helpful replies. Even the ones that cal me out on BS aren't what I would call insulting. Thanks a lot!


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> If your wife cant trust you enough to find an appropriate person to watch your own kid then you may have issues beyond therapy.  Sometimes its better for all parties to walk away before it gets too bad.  I go to the same houses over and over again and people basically hate each other but neither will take the step to end it because they fear the unknown.  Its better for kids to have 2 good parents that are separated then 2 parents that are together that hat each other.  No saying your at that point yet but if you cant even agree on a sitter for a few hours then...........



Like I said, there is so much more to it than I can explain here. I aired a LITTLE dirty laundry...doesn't mean I want to air it all.


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## ballen0351 (Jun 3, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> Like I said, there is so much more to it than I can explain here. I aired a LITTLE dirty laundry...doesn't mean I want to air it all.


No I understand just trying to say sometimes the tough choice is the better choice.  I deal with these issues everyday at work.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> No I understand just trying to say sometimes the tough choice is the better choice.  I deal with these issues everyday at work.



I'm glad you said that. Sometimes things can come off as abrasive, especially on an internet site where one person cannot hear the other's tone of voice. so I appreciate that response.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 3, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> I just want to clarify it has nothing to do with actually raising him. The stress comes from the fact that sometimes kids don't like stepparents...sometimes kids will tell lies to get out of seeing those stepparents...sometimes those lies are of a horrible nature...and sometimes those lies will cause trouble for the stepparent. Unfortunately, what my son is too young to realize is (1) how damaging and hurtful such lies are, and (2) that if it causes trouble for my wife, it causes trouble for me too.



How old is your kid?  Boy or Girl?

After this or some sessions, you might want to consider bringing your child into the sessions, or getting separate counselling.  

Considering the support, or lack thereof, from both your families, have you considered moving to another job in a distant locality?

I certainly wish you the best in this.  I will pray for the best outcome for all involved.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 3, 2014)

My son is 8 years old. 

His mother and I plan on getting him into some counseling of his own, which I will be a part of. Then again, his problem isn't with ME...it is with his stepmother (my wife). I'd prefer if SHE came to the counseling as well, but I think if she got near my son's mom, there would be bloodshed LOL. And I can't say I would hold my wife back; my son's mom has put us both through a lot.

Moving away to a distant place? No. I don't have custody of my son, so moving far away would make it impossible to see him.

Thanks for the prayers and wishes.


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## Crossracer (Jun 5, 2014)

One thing is the problem that both families seem to hate the other spouse. My ex and I both agree that we listened to too many people telling us how bad the other person was instead of working on our issues. Negative influences in our lives are everywhere and very destructive.
     As a step father I have had to work thru many issues of the " your not the dad " variety. Even stoday, ( he is 24) I'm more then a friend and less then a dad. But that is life, we all can only do what we can do. 
     Honestly problems in the home often have more then one cause and one irritant. Even without therapy try and talk to your wife and identify some simple things YOU can do to reduce the stress in the household. I stress you since you are the only one you really can control in this life. If need be get therapy for yourself, work on making yourself the best person you can be everyday, let life handle the rest. 

Bill


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## wingchun100 (Jun 5, 2014)

Marriage is a two way street. If it has problems, it's most likely the fault of BOTH. I have no problem seeking out therapy for myself, but she definitely needs it too.


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## Crossracer (Jun 5, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> Marriage is a two way street. If it has problems, it's most likely the fault of BOTH. I have no problem seeking out therapy for myself, but she definitely needs it too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I agree, but that's not my point. Don't get wrapped up in what she needs, instead concentrate on what you need to do be a better dad and husband. You have no control over her, and to imiagne you do is a fools errand. 
     Fix yourself first. Think of it this way. If you are both to blame, then fixing yourself is by definition fixing 50 percent of the problem. 
      If your attitude is direct attack, make her get help then this will probally fail. People will dig in and refuse help if they think they are being pressured. Think Sun Tzu and the Art of War. He says the greatest generals are the ones who win without fighting at all. 
     Find ways to influence her to find the answers she needs to find. Not saying they are your ideas of correct answers, but in the end it's all about moving forward. 

      Marriage is tough. My wife and I have been thru more crap then you would believe. After 15 years we still have to work on things. But it's always getting better. 

Bill


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## wingchun100 (Jun 6, 2014)

While I'm not saying I am in need of NO fixing, I will say that one big problem is one of us has the "my way or the highway" attitude. I don't blame her: she was raised with it (my mother-in-law has the exact same approach to life). My fear is that, when it is pointed out, it won't change. Even if she does agree it is an issue, I know it won't change overnight. 

This is probably the toughest spot I have ever been in. Hopefully this Thursday will be the beginning toward a better future together. I know one thing: I don't want to give up. Everyone from the previous generation of my family has been married and divorced multiple times. I don't want to be that way. Then again, sometimes you wonder if there isn't a point where you have exhausted all options, and you have to realize there is no compromise to be found. A lot of people say "quitters never win," but what if quitting means you win a life free of daily stress and arguing? (You'd still probably argue with an ex-wife, but not as much as you would if you lived there!)


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## Crossracer (Jun 6, 2014)

In the end only you can truely decide when enough is enough. In the end people are who they are, small changes are possible, but big changes normally require a person to hit a rock bottom of some kind. 
    So where does it leave you? 

Basically you can leave.

You can stay, try and work it out, and be angry.

You can stay, try and work
It out, and accept that there will be things you disagree on. 

After our divorce my ex and I spent three years dating other people. After 3 years we looked at each other and said " you arnt that bad". So we have been continuing to work on our relationship. I'm
Betting we will be still working on it till the day one of us dies. But compared to some of the other issues I found dating, her issues where not that bad. 

     Good luck, I hope all goes well for you.

Bill



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## oftheherd1 (Jun 6, 2014)

wingchun100 said:


> While I'm not saying I am in need of NO fixing, I will say that one big problem is one of us has the "my way or the highway" attitude. I don't blame her: she was raised with it (my mother-in-law has the exact same approach to life). My fear is that, when it is pointed out, it won't change. Even if she does agree it is an issue, I know it won't change overnight.
> 
> This is probably the toughest spot I have ever been in. Hopefully this Thursday will be the beginning toward a better future together. I know one thing: I don't want to give up. Everyone from the previous generation of my family has been married and divorced multiple times. I don't want to be that way. Then again, sometimes you wonder if there isn't a point where you have exhausted all options, and you have to realize there is no compromise to be found. A lot of people say "quitters never win," but what if quitting means you win a life free of daily stress and arguing? (You'd still probably argue with an ex-wife, but not as much as you would if you lived there!)



I think you have a while to go before you should give up and run.  But that should be an option you aren't afraid of if you are certain you have exhausted all tries at resolution, with no success.  

But let me suggest another way of looking at this.  You have said that you don't have custody.  It sounds like his mother and her family don't have a whole lot to say good about you, and nothing good to say about your wife.  And it doesn't sound like that will change.  Perhaps you should consider moving just you and your wife, accepting that your aren't going to have a good relationship with your son until he is older and able to make some of his own decisions with more independent facts.

I was in the 7th grade when my father died.  For a very long time my mother didn't seem interested in dating again.  I thought that was correct and proper.  Honor to my dad and all.  Then she started seeing a guy.  I was very jealous of him, and hurt by my mom.  How could she?  Then for a reason she never fully explained, she broke up with him.  I always suspected he wanted something she wasn't willing to give outside of marriage.  Later, she met and started dating another man.  He was a really wonderful man.  But that didn't make any difference to me.  I was jealous of him too, and so didn't like him.  Hey, mom didn't need a man around the house, I was there.  How foolish we can be sometimes.

Later I joined the US Army.  Through basic and AIT, it began to dawn on me that my mother didn't have me any more.  I wasn't there to 'protect' her.  I started to feel bad.  Then one evening I called her and she hesitatingly told me she had gotten married.  I can't really tell you how relieved I was to hear that.  That was when I began to look at my step dad very differently.  He was a wonderful man in any way you would want to measure him.  They were very much in love with each other, and I was so happy for that.  And thankfully, told her so.

What I hope you can see is that kids can get some very crazy ideas, all on their on.  Is your son jealous of your wife?  Is he angry at you for 'abandoning' him, and hoping to get you out of the marriage so you and your ex can get back together?  Who knows?  Your son may not even really know.  In my case, until I had my epiphany, nobody could have convinced me to be anything but antagonist against any man my mother dated.  

You owe some things to your son, and moving away from him would not be easy, and might cause both you and your wife to feel guilty.  But remember, you made some explicit and non-explicit commitments to your wife as well.  Getting your son to change his outlook at this point in his life may be difficult to impossible.  Something to consider, but I don't mean to tell you what to do.  You are the only one in the end, who can really say what will be best for you.  And whatever you choose is something you have to live with for the rest of your life.  I hope you choose well.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 6, 2014)

oftheherd1 said:


> I think you have a while to go before you should give up and run.  But that should be an option you aren't afraid of if you are certain you have exhausted all tries at resolution, with no success.
> 
> But let me suggest another way of looking at this.  You have said that you don't have custody.  It sounds like his mother and her family don't have a whole lot to say good about you, and nothing good to say about your wife.  And it doesn't sound like that will change.  Perhaps you should consider moving just you and your wife, accepting that your aren't going to have a good relationship with your son until he is older and able to make some of his own decisions with more independent facts.
> 
> ...



I hear what you are saying, but I cannot move so far away that I could never see my son. I left his mother before he was old enough to understand what was going on. For a long time I lived with my mother (just couldn't land the kind of job where I could afford to be out on my own). Now while I am not bashing my mom completely (because she let me stay there), she DID have a habit of undermining the rules I tried to get my kids to follow. I won't get into too much detail here because the exact rules are not important. What IS important is the change he experienced when my wife came along. 

I moved out so I could live with my wife. Now keep in mind she had come over when I lived with my mother and saw how the kids acted, and she wasn't any more of a fan of it than I was. So when I was out of there, that meant my son was now subjected to another person who BACKED UP my rules instead of obliterating them. I think it's safe to say that most kids would be resentful when they switch from a position like that. One minute they can do whatever they want...the next, they actually have to follow rules. (To this day I STILL deal with the residual effect of when I lived with her.)

I was the same way when I was young. My mom let me do almost anything I wanted. (Surprisingly, I didn't grow up being as out of control as one might expect. I have never been in trouble with the law so, despite her lack of discipline, I somehow turned out okay.) Then my dad married a woman who would...get this...made me follow rules! Gasp! LOL It wasn't until I was almost out of high school that I came to appreciate my stepmom, and now I have a GREAT relationship with her.

I just hope it doesn't take that long for Aiden to come around.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 10, 2014)

I think the hardest part is knowing when it is pointless. Everyone from my mom's generation of the family has been married and divorced several times. I don't know how much they went through before calling it a day, but I do wonder if they quit long before they should have. You can't run at the first sign of trouble. But how much is too much? I guess it is all up to each person's tolerance level...but what if the people are wimps? LOL You'd have people getting divorced just because their partner doesn't squeeze the toothpaste out from the bottom of the tube!

I hate gray areas like this because it always leaves me wondering: did I really try everything for a solution?


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