# aikido the harmony way?



## Manny

I want to aks a few things about aikido. Aikido is the armony way I've been told, in aikido there is no fight, in akido all is goodness and aikido is a way of living, blending with the people and the sorroundings even nature in a peacefull way but then... what hapen with the people who studies aikido just for the martial art part? Are these people wrong?

El Manny


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## Xue Sheng

Manny said:


> what hapen with the people who studies aikido just for the martial art part? Are these people wrong?
> 
> El Manny



No.

I tend to believe most go to train martial arts, the rest is there if you want it, but then harmonizing with the opponent is a way to apply the martial arts of it


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## pgsmith

"The way of harmony" refers to the name and the kanji used to get there ... 合気道   The kanji are 'fit/join', 'spirit/mood', and 'journey/course', so it translates as "the way lf harmony". There are now a number of different branches of aikido, and they all have their own ideals. However aikido itself, as created by Ueshiba sensei, depends on blending with your opponent and using their energy to subdue them. Harmonizing (physically) with your opponent is central to proper aikido, no matter which branch you end up studying.


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## dancingalone

The tone is set by the school head and this varies even within organizations.  You can definitely find aikido dojo that have a more martial feel to their practice.  They are not all that rare.


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## Chris Li

pgsmith said:


> "The way of harmony" refers to the name and the kanji used to get there ... 合気道   The kanji are 'fit/join', 'spirit/mood', and 'journey/course', so it translates as "the way lf harmony". There are now a number of different branches of aikido, and they all have their own ideals. However aikido itself, as created by Ueshiba sensei, depends on blending with your opponent and using their energy to subdue them. Harmonizing (physically) with your opponent is central to proper aikido, no matter which branch you end up studying.



"The way of harmony" is a common translation, but if you ask me it's really a common mis-translation. 合 is used in some compounds that mean "harmony", but it doesn't itself mean harmony. I wrote a bit about that here.

Here's what Koichi Tohei had to say about harmonizing with the opponent:

*二代道主は、合氣道を「人の気に合わせるの道」と解釈していた。しかし私にしてみれば、合氣道とは「心身を統一して天地と一体になる。すなわち天地の気に合わす道」なのである。*

*“The second Doshu interpreted Aikido as “the Way of fitting in with another person’s Ki”. However, it seems to me that Aikido is “Uniting body and mind and becoming one with heaven and earth. Specifically, the Way of fitting together the Ki of heaven and earth.”.”
*​Actually, he's correct - Morihei Ueshiba most often discusses Aiki as a process that happens within oneself, not between oneself and the other person.

Best,

Chris


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## tshadowchaser

Chris Li,   Excellent article   thanks for the link to it


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## Chris Li

tshadowchaser said:


> Chris Li,   Excellent article   thanks for the link to it



Thanks, I'm glad that you enjoyed it!

Best,

Chris


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## TSDTexan

Chris Li said:


> "The way of harmony" is a common translation, but if you ask me it's really a common mis-translation. 合 is used in some compounds that mean "harmony", but it doesn't itself mean harmony. I wrote a bit about that here.
> 
> Here's what Koichi Tohei had to say about harmonizing with the opponent:
> 
> *二代道主は、合氣道を「人の気に合わせるの道」と解釈していた。しかし私にしてみれば、合氣道とは「心身を統一して天地と一体になる。すなわち天地の気に合わす道」なのである。*
> 
> *“The second Doshu interpreted Aikido as “the Way of fitting in with another person’s Ki”. However, it seems to me that Aikido is “Uniting body and mind and becoming one with heaven and earth. Specifically, the Way of fitting together the Ki of heaven and earth.”.”
> *​Actually, he's correct - Morihei Ueshiba most often discusses Aiki as a process that happens within oneself, not between oneself and the other person.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris



Wait a second.... your Christopher Li!!!!!
That Chris?

Thats great!


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## Chris Li

TSDTexan said:


> Wait a second.... your Christopher Li!!!!!
> That Chris?
> 
> Thats great!



Well, I think it's great, but I have a hard time convincing my wife... 

Best,

Chris


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## oftheherd1

Thanks for the explanations and link to the article.  Informative.


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## TSDTexan

Chris Li said:


> Well, I think it's great, but I have a hard time convincing my wife...
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris


I have spent a lot of time reading posts on your site. And meditating upon what I have read. Good stuff.


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## Chris Li

TSDTexan said:


> I have spent a lot of time reading posts on your site. And meditating upon what I have read. Good stuff.



Thanks, I'm glad that you found them useful!

Best,

Chris


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## pgsmith

Very cool! Thanks for the insight Chris.
I discontinued my aikido training many years ago, so my knowledge is only superficial at best. It's much better to hear from individuals with the in-depth knowledge that comes from decades of study.

  Cheers,


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## JP3

Xue Sheng said:


> No.
> 
> I tend to believe most go to train martial arts, the rest is there if you want it, but then harmonizing with the opponent is a way to apply the martial arts of it


Agreed. The thing is, you go in to just train martial arts and you end up being brainwashed, wearing robes, becoming Buddhist and wearing flowery robes but not smelling flowery.

Nah... If you want to just train, you can just train. However, the mindset of the techniques will eventually have an effect on your outlook. It is interesting.


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## Jenna

JP3 said:


> Agreed. The thing is, you go in to just train martial arts and you end up being brainwashed, wearing robes, becoming Buddhist and wearing flowery robes but not smelling flowery.
> 
> Nah... If you want to just train, you can just train. However, the mindset of the techniques will eventually have an effect on your outlook. It is interesting.


What do you think a person should look out for to avoid being brainwashed into a robe-wearing martial art mentality?


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## JP3

Jenna said:


> What do you think a person should look out for to avoid being brainwashed into a robe-wearing martial art mentality?





Jenna said:


> What do you think a person should look out for to avoid being brainwashed into a robe-wearing martial art mentality?


Pretty much, any school, club or dojo where any instructor says anything in the same area of meaning as "Our way is the best way. Truly it is the only way to true [insert fantasy word here]." Fantasy word could be enlightenment, Ki, Spirit, Mastery whatever. I don't have a problem with the fantasy words, it is the "only way" thing that makes my teeth hurt.


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## Jenna

JP3 said:


> Pretty much, any school, club or dojo where any instructor says anything in the same area of meaning as "Our way is the best way. Truly it is the only way to true [insert fantasy word here]." Fantasy word could be enlightenment, Ki, Spirit, Mastery whatever. I don't have a problem with the fantasy words, it is the "only way" thing that makes my teeth hurt.


I get you.. tho why it make your teeth hurt when they are only tickling each other with fantasy words like enlightenment, Ki, Spirit, Mastery and whatever? Is not like cosplayers or Comic-con where is just everybody enjoy their thing? It make your teeth hurt too?? there is a difference?? thank you x


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## drop bear

Jenna said:


> I get you.. tho why it make your teeth hurt when they are only tickling each other with fantasy words like enlightenment, Ki, Spirit, Mastery and whatever? Is not like cosplayers or Comic-con where is just everybody enjoy their thing? It make your teeth hurt too?? there is a difference?? thank you x



Cosplayers hopefully understand it is an escape from reality. Not reality itself.

Otherwise they are called cults.

The other one for me is when people compete to become more enlightened than the other guy.

Which i think is missing the point.


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## Jenna

drop bear said:


> Cosplayers hopefully understand it is an escape from reality. Not reality itself.
> 
> Otherwise they are called cults.
> 
> The other one for me is when people compete to become more enlightened than the other guy.
> 
> Which i think is missing the point.


Yes is cult as commonly we may understand it.. still there are various definition of cult under which what you might class as reality can also be defined.. like peculiar reverence or deference to particular person (celebrity, president, sports team) or fanatical or indoctrinated admiration to a particular thing (say a martial art for example) yes adherance to orthodoxy and doctrine.. herd mentality.. is intransigence of the mind.. cults cults everywhere what isagirl to do


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## drop bear

Jenna said:


> Yes is cult as commonly we may understand it.. still there are various definition of cult under which what you might class as reality can also be defined.. like peculiar reverence or deference to particular person (celebrity, president, sports team) or fanatical or indoctrinated admiration to a particular thing (say a martial art for example) yes adherance to orthodoxy and doctrine.. herd mentality.. is intransigence of the mind.. cults cults everywhere what isagirl to do



The obvious answer is not to follow the herd.  But it isn't really correct as there are so many people not following the herd they create their own. 

The secret is not develop a mind set that lets you think outside the box. 

But realising there is no box.


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## Jenna

drop bear said:


> The obvious answer is not to follow the herd.  But it isn't really correct as there are so many people not following the herd they create their own.
> 
> The secret is not develop a mind set that lets you think outside the box.
> 
> But realising there is no box.


Ah I look to you for straight talking and you are going to get all metaphysical with me haha!! What is this you are saying: outside the box and but there is no box?? ahhhhh.. you can be certain you are not being brainwashed by this here L Ron Hubbard book you been reading cos boxes and no boxes sound like culty talk haha.. take my hand I will rescue you from these people get you to safety..


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## drop bear

Jenna said:


> Ah I look to you for straight talking and you are going to get all metaphysical with me haha!! What is this you are saying: outside the box and but there is no box?? ahhhhh.. you can be certain you are not being brainwashed by this here L Ron Hubbard book you been reading cos boxes and no boxes sound like culty talk haha.. take my hand I will rescue you from these people get you to safety..



I am a dichotomy.


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## Jenna

drop bear said:


> I am a dichotomy.


I think you only half believe that


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## Hanshi

I urge any prospective student of aikido, or any martial art, to avoid "schools" that try to be_ mystic_; this has nothing to do with aikido and is only sensei BS.  Aikido IS a martial art and this understanding should stay with you throughout your association with it.  One cannot afford to throw a true attacker "gently and with love".  This is the way training in done in the dojo among classmates and friends and not on the street.


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## Tony Dismukes

Jenna said:


> I get you.. tho why it make your teeth hurt when they are only tickling each other with fantasy words like enlightenment, Ki, Spirit, Mastery and whatever? Is not like cosplayers or Comic-con where is just everybody enjoy their thing? It make your teeth hurt too?? there is a difference?? thank you x



If I ever encountered a cosplayer who thought they really were Wonder Woman or Aragorn or Doctor Who, then I _would_ be worried for them. Fortunately I don't think that's a situation which happens very often.

"Martial artists" who think they are really learning to become enlightened spiritual masters with supernatural powers? That I have encountered both in person and online.


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## Jenna

Tony Dismukes said:


> If I ever encountered a cosplayer who thought they really were Wonder Woman or Aragorn or Doctor Who, then I _would_ be worried for them. Fortunately I don't think that's a situation which happens very often.
> 
> "Martial artists" who think they are really learning to become enlightened spiritual masters with supernatural powers? That I have encountered both in person and online.


Yes I understand how you mean this.. though can I ask please do you also think what he was saying that ki, mastery, enlightenment, these are all fantasy words?? like I mean in MA terms


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## Tony Dismukes

Jenna said:


> Yes I understand how you mean this.. though can I ask please do you also think what he was saying that ki, mastery, enlightenment, these are all fantasy words?? like I mean in MA terms


"Ki" as a culturally laden way of describing certain useful ways of breathing and applying good body dynamics based on the subjective way they feel rather than medically precise terminology = totally fine in my book.
"Ki" as a magical force granting supernatural powers which can only be achieved by studying arts which use that culturally laden terminology = fantasy.

"Mastery" is a highly subjective word which is used to describe a wide variety of skill levels. It's not necessarily a bad word to use, but the martial fantasists often apply it based on a very unrealistic perception of their instructor's or their own skill level.

"Enlightenment" is a term so vague and subjective as to be almost useless in general. It can be narrowed down to a somewhat more precise meaning in certain religious contexts and there have been some psychological studies of the kind of subjective mental experience which is commonly described as "enlightenment" in those contexts. However there is no particular evidence I've seen that martial arts training is especially likely to lead to that experience. Furthermore, martial fantasists who make a big deal out of achieving "enlightenment" typically seem to have a more pretentious idea of the concept, thinking this "enlightened" status makes someone especially wise or possessed of esoteric knowledge or qualified to be life guides for others.

That's been my experience, anyway. Your mileage may vary.


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## Jenna

Tony Dismukes said:


> "Ki" as a culturally laden way of describing certain useful ways of breathing and applying good body dynamics based on the subjective way they feel rather than medically precise terminology = totally fine in my book.
> "Ki" as a magical force granting supernatural powers which can only be achieved by studying arts which use that culturally laden terminology = fantasy.
> 
> "Mastery" is a highly subjective word which is used to describe a wide variety of skill levels. It's not necessarily a bad word to use, but the martial fantasists often apply it based on a very unrealistic perception of their instructor's or their own skill level.
> 
> "Enlightenment" is a term so vague and subjective as to be almost useless in general. It can be narrowed down to a somewhat more precise meaning in certain religious contexts and there have been some psychological studies of the kind of subjective mental experience which is commonly described as "enlightenment" in those contexts. However there is no particular evidence I've seen that martial arts training is especially likely to lead to that experience. Furthermore, martial fantasists who make a big deal out of achieving "enlightenment" typically seem to have a more pretentious idea of the concept, thinking this "enlightened" status makes someone especially wise or possessed of esoteric knowledge or qualified to be life guides for others.
> 
> That's been my experience, anyway. Your mileage may vary.


RIght I understand that better now.. see @drop bear make the points concise.. only is so concise I cannot get the meaning.. then Tony you elaborate with the fine detail and then it make complete sense.. see? you and Drop Bear are like JCVD Double Team haha.. or was it Double Impact.. I cannot remember now x


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## Tony Dismukes

Jenna said:


> JCVD Double Team


I think that might be a very different genre of movie.


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## drop bear

Tony Dismukes said:


> I think that might be a very different genre of movie.



Twins.


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## GreatUniter

"Aikido is the way of harmony...but not too much harmony." - Yoshimitsu Yamada


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