# Foshan International Event 10-12 November 2017



## Yeung (Jun 12, 2017)

A notice to all Wing Chun Associations, please be prepare for the coming International event:

The Government of the Foshan Hi-tech Development Region organize the 4th International Wing Chun Championship, 10-12 November 2017, Nanhai Shishan Stadium, sponsor by the Guangdong Wushu Association, Guangdong Wushu Administration Centre, Wushu Department of Ministry of Athletic and Sport, People’s Republic of China. Selection event for South China Regions will take place in 19-20 August 2017 for empty hand forms and weaponry. Selection Event for Eastern China Regions will take place in Hangzhou, around September 2017, and International Selection Events will be arrange in the same month.


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## geezer (Jun 12, 2017)

A Wing Chun competition involving empty-handed and weapons forms? --Sounds like a _terrible_ idea to me. A sure way to stress purely aesthetic conventions (like wushu) and reverse WCs emphasis on functionality. 

A WC _fighting _competition would be a much better idea. Something unique, like fighting on _small raised platforms _that would favor WC's close fighting strategy.


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## geezer (Jun 12, 2017)

I know ...how about fighting on a raised circular platform, say a 3 meter disk rigged so it tilts up to about 20 degrees as the contestants move around on it.
Like this:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b4M4eleq9Ls/maxresdefault.jpg

I'd pay big bucks to see some highly skilled people try that!!!!


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## Nobody Important (Jun 12, 2017)

geezer said:


> I know ...how about fighting on a raised circular platform, say a 3 meter disk rigged so it tilts up to about 20 degrees as the contestants move around on it.
> Like this:
> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b4M4eleq9Ls/maxresdefault.jpg
> 
> I'd pay big bucks to see some highly skilled people try that!!!!


When I was a kid, this is how the neighborhood parents had us kids resolve our differences. We'd put on boxing gloves and go at it for 3 two minute rounds (if we lasted that long) while our hillbilly parents drank beer. Humbling experience for 10 - 13 year olds, lol. Not sure if that would fly in todays society. Definately would pay to see adults do it while I drank beer.


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## LFJ (Jun 13, 2017)

geezer said:


> A Wing Chun competition involving empty-handed and weapons forms? --Sounds like a _terrible_ idea to me. A sure way to stress purely aesthetic conventions (like wushu) and reverse WCs emphasis on functionality.



Besides, how can the judges judge if they don't know what they're looking at?

They might score poorly on precision for something that was done correctly for that contestant's lineage.

The only objective standards would have to be like speed, power, balance.
But then, not all lineages do their forms with speed and power.

So, what the heck is left to judge? Sounds pointless.



> A WC _fighting _competition would be a much better idea. Something unique, like fighting on _small raised platforms _that would favor WC's close fighting strategy.



That would be neat, but kind of sounds like training wheels to make sure they stay on their Wing Chun bikes, like _chi-sau_ competitions.

Open-style tournaments are best, in my opinion.


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## KPM (Jun 13, 2017)

Yeung said:


> , sponsor by the Guangdong Wushu Association, Guangdong Wushu Administration Centre, Wushu Department of Ministry of Athletic and Sport, People’s Republic of China. .



I've read that China has been making efforts to "Wu Shu-ize" Wing Chun.  So my guess is that the Guangdong Wushu Association has developed a  "standardized" version of Wing Chun Wushu forms that they will be expecting contestants to be performing.  That is how they could judge a forms competition.


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## LFJ (Jun 13, 2017)

Ugh, what a disaster...


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## Yeung (Jun 13, 2017)

I was involved in the following activities before moving to the UK in 2010:

Coach the Adherent Fighting Class of the Chinwoo Athletic Association Hong Kong for the 2nd International Nianshou-type of Yongchunquan Gongfu Arena Tournament of China, Foshan, China, 9 to11 November 2008

Coached the Panyu Regional Martial Arts Association team for the 1st International Nianshou-type of Yongchunquan Gongfu Arena Tournament of China, Foshan, Guangdong, China, 28th August to 1st September, 2006.

Coach the Hong Kong Chin Woo Athletic Association for the Foshan, Hong Kong and Guangzhou Chinwoo Rose Cup Yong Chun Sticking-hand Invitation Tournament, Foshan City, Guangdong, China, 21-22 October 2000.

The difficulty is trying to preserve the uniqueness of Wing Chun as an open sport even it is always been a very competitive close door sport between proficient practitioners. But at the moment the question is who finance it and why?


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## geezer (Jun 13, 2017)

LFJ said:


> That would be neat, but kind of sounds l*ike training wheels to make sure they stay on their Wing Chun bikes*, like _chi-sau_ competitions.



Yep.. Pretty much. But if you are going to have a "Wing Chun" (VT/WC/WT) themed tournament, this could encourage using the infighting techniques we specialize in, while adding a dramatic flair.

As for chi-sau tournaments, I feel like that pretty much misses the point of chi-sau ...which, as I see it, is an exercise, not an all-out competition. But this idea of table-fighting would be a fun thing in itself, not a perversion of our core training methods.

Anyway, my idea is moot. The Chinese government has it's own ideas, as others have noted. I don't care to interject politics here, but IMO this is not an area in which a body of the Chinese government, or indeed _any government _is likely to make a positive contribution. VT/WC has enough problems already!!!


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## geezer (Jun 13, 2017)

Yeung said:


> The difficulty is trying to preserve the uniqueness of Wing Chun as an open sport even it is always been a very competitive close door sport between proficient practitioners. But at the moment the question is who finance it and why?



Well, that is a good question. Do you have any ideas?


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## geezer (Jun 13, 2017)

LFJ said:


> Ugh, what a disaster...



So atrocious in fact that for once you, I, and _even KPM _agree. Now thats scary.


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## KPM (Jun 13, 2017)

geezer said:


> Well, that is a good question. Do you have any ideas?



Wouldn't that just be a matter of Wing Chun guys entering San Da competitions?  And actually attempting to do something that resembles Wing Chun rather than just kickboxing?


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## Nobody Important (Jun 13, 2017)

KPM said:


> Wouldn't that just be a matter of Wing Chun guys entering San Da competitions?  And actually attempting to do something that resembles Wing Chun rather than just kickboxing?


Question, not specifically aimed at you Keith, but all in general, you just brought up the point. 
Wing Chun is a specialty art, I think many will agree that it is. As a fighting system, it's patented structure, theories and rules have failed to produce with any consistency under the heavy pressure of fight competition. We've all heard a million reasons as to why this is so, from, poor training and lack of understanding the theory to lack of practical sparring. 
My question is, maybe perhaps Wing Chun as a style is less about superior fighting tactics and structure and more about how to develop and refine gross motor skill and refine strategy based on that refinement.

Clearly, and feel free to argue, Wing Chun as a fighting art has failed miserably when put to the test. Perhaps Wing Chun isn't supposed to look like your doing the forms when fighting, but more importantly, about learning how to refine gross motor skill to combined motor skill and fine motor skill when under duress. Is the art of Wing Chun being used wrong?


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## KPM (Jun 13, 2017)

^^^^^ Good points.  Maybe start another thread on this specifically?   I know we've talked about this before, but I'm still not really clear on what Wing Chun as a means of  "learning how to refine gross motor skill to combine motor skill and fine motor skill when under duress" really means.  If Wing Chun is the vehicle to do this, then why would the end result not be expected to look like Wing Chun?  I think you've said before that you see Wing Chun being a way to refine and improve another pre-existing fighting method for the practitioner rather than functioning as a fighting method all on its own?


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## geezer (Jun 13, 2017)

Nobody Important said:


> Perhaps Wing Chun isn't supposed to look like your doing the forms when fighting, but more importantly, about learning how to refine gross motor skill to combined motor skill and fine motor skill when under duress.* Is the art of Wing Chun being used wrong?*



My answer to the above is "probably". So I'm going to start a new thread to continue debating this old question.


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## Nobody Important (Jun 13, 2017)

KPM said:


> ^^^^^ Good points.  Maybe start another thread on this specifically?   I know we've talked about this before, but I'm still not really clear on what Wing Chun as a means of  "learning how to refine gross motor skill to combine motor skill and fine motor skill when under duress" really means.  If Wing Chun is the vehicle to do this, then why would the end result not be expected to look like Wing Chun?  I think you've said before that you see Wing Chun being a way to refine and improve another pre-existing fighting method for the practitioner rather than functioning as a fighting method all on its own?


The end end result won't look like the tool used to refine because that isn't the goal. You only take from the toolbox the tools required for the job.


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## geezer (Jun 13, 2017)

OK, the new thread on_ Nobody's_ topic is posted. Have at it guys!


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## Yeung (Jun 13, 2017)

geezer said:


> OK, the new thread on_ Nobody's_ topic is posted. Have at it guys!



The Government of the Foshan Hi-tech Development Region can capitalize on Wing Chun fans around the world to promote their hi-tech development region open to foreign investment.


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## KPM (Jun 13, 2017)

Yeung said:


> The Government of the Foshan Hi-tech Development Region can capitalize on Wing Chun fans around the world to promote their hi-tech development region open to foreign investment.



I, for one, have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Yeung (Jun 14, 2017)

KPM said:


> I, for one, have no idea what you are talking about.



Wing Chun Fandom is a social phenomenon, and various activities such as competitions and world gathering events can reinforce the coercion of these social groups.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 14, 2017)

Yeung said:


> Wing Chun Fandom is a social phenomenon, and various activities such as competitions and world gathering events can reinforce the coercion of these social groups.



Thank you to Edmond Wong and Donnie Yen for the Wing Chun Fandom social phenomenon


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## geezer (Jun 14, 2017)

Would that more people would make the leap from fandom fantasy to actually practicing Wing Chun ...and in workout clothes, not brightly colored silk pajamas!

At formal events such a seminars, my association still requires me to wear our official "instructor attire". I hate it. Give me a T-shirt and sweat pants. That's real.


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## Yeung (Jun 15, 2017)

Thank you for the examples of Wing Chun Fandom, and don't forget Bruce Lee and other actors and actresses.


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