# Crying students in sparring



## miguksaram (May 12, 2011)

Ok...this month's main focus at our school is sparring.  So my question to all of you is what do you do when one of the kids start crying after getting hit regardless if it was hard or not?


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## Markku P (May 12, 2011)

I normally start with "no contact" rule, we start with sparring white and yellow belt level.
Some kids just don't like to do sparring so I carefully with them. So first we start "no contact" and gradually we go with contact. No problems so far..last 20 years 

/Markku


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## terryl965 (May 12, 2011)

Before we let anybody spar we have them do line drills with light to medium contact. What that is the line up close stance and one will turn out and the other will kick with a back leg roundhouse, we also do the back kick cut kick, and fast kick. Then when they can handle that we allow them to spar, alot of people need to be brought along slowly when sparring, it is not like the old days when you lined up and just hit each other and thought it was fun.


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## StudentCarl (May 12, 2011)

We do gradual buildup to condition them somewhat to getting hit, as others mentioned.

But that wasn't your question. We keep 'em in the ring to work through it, encourage them to get fierce (mad) and kick their opponent around. We pump them up emotionally and coach right beside them. Once a kid has bounced back and popped their opponent 'back' a few times, we'll stop the match and praise liberally.

It's absolutely to get the kid back in the saddle...to not stop on a bad note. If you do, they often won't want to spar again.

Carl


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## Dana (May 12, 2011)

I think contact is important in sparring; both being close enough to actually hit someone (distance) and to learn how to get hit (move with it, Kihap, conditioning, etc.).  I do not allow "excessive" contact and stay away from face-mask area contact, but usually let even the children hit each other and stay away from tippy-taps unless in a dangerous target zone.  On occasion, someone gets hit and cries.  The first thing I do is assess whether they have suffered an injury or are just shaken up or startled.  I don't make a big deal out of it and usually have them continue if they are able (if obvious there is no actual injury), even if just for a very brief time.  Most kids are assured that it is not a big deal (i.e., they are not dying) by your concern and demeanor and get back in with renewed vigor.  It is actually quite gratifying to see their courage and perseverance.  Occasionally, there is a crisis of confidence and that takes a little longer and can't always be changed if the student can't win their fight with their fears.

D


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## troubleenuf (May 12, 2011)

We spar with instructors/high belts first.  They spar with control and basically allow the kids to hit them while they tap them back.  This allows them to get the idea of sparring without someone overwhelming them right off the bat.  Most kids cry not because they are hurt but because they dont know what to do and are confused and scared.


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## granfire (May 12, 2011)

it depends on the student.

Since our school is light/medium contact only, excessive contact is rare and the student put on notice.

However, there are a couple of specialists in each group who like to clobber their opponents while resorting to tears when they are paid back in like coin. 

I am mean enough to let them get the rewards for their actions to a larger extent, however my instructor is not so keen on that 

"There is no crying in Baseball"
Unless you are really hurt/injured...I have no use for it. (but also not a lot of ideas, past the 'you spar like an old woman' )


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## Archangel M (May 12, 2011)

Get them to chant: 

You:"PAIN DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO DOES IT??"
Them: "NO SENSEI!!"



Seriously though, show concern, but if it is just childhood emotion/drama and not based in actual physical pain, convince them to carry on and overcome.


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## gobbly (May 12, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> We spar with instructors/high belts first.  They spar with control and basically allow the kids to hit them while they tap them back.  This allows them to get the idea of sparring without someone overwhelming them right off the bat.  Most kids cry not because they are hurt but because they dont know what to do and are confused and scared.



This is how we do it too.  We also got on gear and spent some time just kicking each other, starting soft, and building up.  Got people used to taking a hit.  When sparring at first the BB's had plenty of control to gradually get us used to harder kicks (though no where near what they nail each other with ).

Getting kicked can hurt, especially when you aren't used to getting kicked.  Going up against someone who will hurt you if they have their way is scary.  Much easier for a newb to get used to these things separately, especially a child.


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## troubleenuf (May 12, 2011)

Of course if they join our National sparring team rule #1 is No Crying. (of course Ive been known to bend it for the little 8/9 year old girls once or twice!  Must be getting soft in my old age.)



gobbly said:


> This is how we do it too.  We also got on gear and spent some time just kicking each other, starting soft, and building up.  Got people used to taking a hit.  When sparring at first the BB's had plenty of control to gradually get us used to harder kicks (though no where near what they nail each other with ).
> 
> Getting kicked can hurt, especially when you aren't used to getting kicked.  Going up against someone who will hurt you if they have their way is scary.  Much easier for a newb to get used to these things separately, especially a child.


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## gobbly (May 12, 2011)

troubleenuf said:


> Of course if they join our National sparring team rule #1 is No Crying. (of course Ive been known to bend it for the little 8/9 year old girls once or twice!  Must be getting soft in my old age.)



lol.  I would assume that those joining the team aren't the fresh students though 

I also assume we are all talking about children   Outside of real injury, I would be rather surprised to see an adult cry while sparring.  Most of my fellow white belts (we're all 21-32) have trouble not laughing or smiling our first few times facing an opponent, that is till we got kicked, then we all got very serious and realized we needed some sort of strategy


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## ganglian (May 12, 2011)

miguksaram said:


> Ok...this month's main focus at our school is sparring.  So my question to all of you is what do you do when one of the kids start crying after getting hit regardless if it was hard or not?




1) Young kids shouldnt spar
2) If young kids should train, TKD is the wrong art


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## jks9199 (May 12, 2011)

Some youngsters will cry, no matter what and no matter how hard they get hit.  Pain tolerance and response are just unique things.   I have a student who, when he was younger, made me almost afraid to look at him, he cried so easily.  In time -- he's gotten passed that.  I made it a point never to belittle his experience or reaction, and to share techniques (like breathing techniques) to control the emotional response.  And to keep "putting him back on the horse."


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## Balrog (May 12, 2011)

I always tell them that if they're crying, they're not hurt.  SWMBO is even blunter.  Her four favorite words are "Just suck it up!"

We then make a big deal of their getting back into it, as an object lesson in perseverance.


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## Master Dan (May 12, 2011)

StudentCarl said:


> We do gradual buildup to condition them somewhat to getting hit, as others mentioned.
> 
> But that wasn't your question. We keep 'em in the ring to work through it, encourage them to get fierce (mad) and kick their opponent around. We pump them up emotionally and coach right beside them. Once a kid has bounced back and popped their opponent 'back' a few times, we'll stop the match and praise liberally.
> 
> ...


 
The point to sparring is conditioning mental and physical and for many dealing with thier own personal demons some due to past and present abuse issues. If they cannot deal with those issues regardless of what ability they cannot defend themselves. Honesty comes into play as well, interesting how if they are intimidated by stronger oponent everthing hurts faining injury or crying but then put them later with a smaller weaker oponent suddenly they have no pain. They need to learn its not about fair in life we cannot always choose everything you have do deal with what is thrown at us and learn to cope and survive. 

In the Tae Kwon Do family the strong have the responsibility to raise up the weaker and help them develop personal strength, tournament and fighting is not sparring still even in amature sport competition a stronger competitor should be gracious enough to not use excessive force to win.


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## Thesemindz (May 13, 2011)

miguksaram said:


> Ok...this month's main focus at our school is sparring. So my question to all of you is what do you do when one of the kids start crying after getting hit regardless if it was hard or not?


 
Isolate the child who's crying and address their needs. If they are hurt, fix them. If they are upset, comfort them. In the meantime, instruct an assistant to lead the rest of the class in continuing the activity so that they don't associate it's practice with a frightening memory that made everybody stop training. Often with children crying is contagious and embaressing. The one who is crying doesn't want to be watched by the rest of the class and you don't want the rest of the class to start crying as well.

You handle it like a professional. All business. And the more confident and in control you are, the more confident and in control the students will be.

There is crying in karate. Kids. Adults. White belts. Black belts. Crying isn't a sign of weakness. And bullying students who are hurting isn't a sign of strength. Not every student cries, but I don't respect the ones who do any less. I try to help them get better at karate. In time, the things that seemed scary at first will become less so. And I would never, _ever_ force a student to spar against their will. I would encourage them to, and I would tell them that it is an important part of their training, but I'd never belittle them. I'm a good enough instructor to think of something else they can do while we spar, it's not like they'll ever run out of karate to practice anyway, and I'd rather have them in class doing _something_ than at home doing nothing because they were afraid I'd dismiss their fears and make them spar again. If their fears are ungrounded it's my job as an instructor to help them see that, and when I do my job as an instructor, those fears will disappear. 

Sometimes that may mean encouraging them through discomfort. Not everyone likes everything we do in karate, and sometimes you have to suck it up and work a drill or activity you don't like. But that comes from building a culture ahead of time. One of trust, and respect, where students know no one is going to hurt them maliciously, and if they _do _get hurt on accident the instructors will take care of them, and everyone is working on getting better and stronger, and where they know that how and why each activity helps them improve. 

With kids, there's only so much you can do. Kids cry. They pee their pants. They fall over and freak out and they have good days and bad days and temper tantrums. They forget their belts and blame their parents and get upset when nobody cares. Hopefully adults are a little better, but sometimes they're not. As a karate instructor, it's my job to work through all the other stuff and teach them _karate_.

I think the key to trying to make sparring less scary is to get the students to practice strikes and blocks with their gloves on in the air, then stalking an opponent, then hunter/prey drills with senior students to ease them into spontaneity. Our students train for almost a year before they first gear up and start sparring. And when they eventually begin to practice it, after a year of training strikes and blocks and kicks and stances and body work, I still make them train for about three weeks in a successive series of more dynamic and competitive drills while I teach them footwork, techniques, combinations, defenses, and counters before I have them fight so that they aren't just flailing in the ring but instead have a skill set to apply. But it isn't our primary focus, we use it as a training drill to teach combat in a more general sense. 

I've had good results with this approach, with kids and adults, and I think a big part of that is the culture I mentioned earlier. You have to have students who see sparring as a chance to _get better_, not a chance to beat up an opponent, and that comes from the top. It comes from how you talk to the students about training and teaching and sparring and practice. It comes from how _you_ act when you spar. And when you have that culture, your students will bring each other up, which makes it less scary, hence less crying.

But sometimes they'll still cry. That's kids. Pick em up, pat em on the head, wait for it to pass. It will.


-Rob


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2011)

ganglian said:


> 1) Young kids shouldnt spar
> 2) If young kids should train, TKD is the wrong art


  Why shouldn't kids spar? 

And what they heck do you mean if young kids should train than TKD is the wrong art?


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2011)

Thank you for everyone who has replied thus far.  Basically how I handle it is on a case by case incident.  For the younger kids, 9 times out of 10, as most of you have pointed out, they cry because they are scared or just "shocked" when they first get hit or that their pride is hurt because they are not able to get their opponent.  When I gauge this to be the reason I do two things first I tell them to stop crying and then I have them do a quick breathing exercise where they step forward with one foot swing their arms back and take in a deep breath.  This usually helps calm them down then I try to get them to laugh a bit by asking them how many fingers am I holding up and I will flash 1 then 3 then 4 and so forth so they begin to laugh because they know it is silly.  I then show them what they need to practice and then have them continue. 

If there is an actual injury we treat it and get them back into the game.  In either case  I then remind both of the fighters about control.

For older kids usually they will cry out of actual injury or frustration.  When it is an injury, depending on what it is, I help them through it.  The vast majority we have is someone gets the wind knocked out of them.  Once that is done I work with them on what to do to avoid the injury and get them back into the game.


When the kids are sparring we do rotations which means they will fight different ranks and heights.  When we have senior belts working with much more junior belts I tell the  senior belts that they are just a punching bag and to help the  juniors.  I also tell them to let the juniors know that they are open by  light contact to the open area.

Thanks again for all those who answered.  I was looking for different view points and techniques to help out with situation.  Please keep the advice coming.


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## Xue Sheng (May 13, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> it is not like the old days when you lined up and just hit each other and thought it was fun.


 
I miss the old days... but I must admit I would not want my kids to do it that way


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## Archtkd (May 13, 2011)

miguksaram said:


> Ok...this month's main focus at our school is sparring.  So my question to all of you is what do you do when one of the kids start crying after getting hit regardless if it was hard or not?



Often kids, and some adults, have to cry to find themselves.

My 61/2 old son Benjie likes sparring and attacking relentlessly,  but until recently he
had never really been banged hard because other kids gave him a pass at our dojang. That's  because he's the youngest student and he is my son. I don't teach kids younger than 7, but Benjie started training when he was 51/2 because he's always hanging out at the place. 

Two months ago, I took Benjie out to a small tournament because I wanted to expose him to what real sparring means, when it's done with kids who don't know him. Well, Benjie, a  Blue Belt 5th Gup  was paired up against an older much stronger kid, a Poom Belt. It was one of those deals where certain masters wanted to ensure their kids would go home with a medal and they had seen one of my yellow belts handily beat a red belt in another bout. Why that pairing was done in the first place baffled me.

I was a little concerned, but I Iet Benjie fight. He got thrashed and roughed up properly. At one point he was punched on the neck and kicked close to the groin, and he started crying. I pulled him to the side, ready to get him out of the event, but he refused to quit, wiped his tears and went in for more punishment. He lost, but he held his own. He's sparring more carefully and respectfully now, and is getting good ideas about when to bang, run or stand firm in an exchange.


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## StudentCarl (May 13, 2011)

Archtkd said:


> I was a little concerned, but I Iet Benjie fight. He got thrashed and roughed up properly. At one point he was punched on the neck and kicked close to the groin, and he started crying. I pulled him to the side, ready to get him out of the event, but he refused to quit, wiped his tears and went in for more punishment. He lost, but he held his own. He's sparring more carefully and respectfully now, and is getting good ideas about when to bang, run or stand firm in an exchange.


 
There's the bottom line I'm hunting for: he didn't let his emotions control him.

Tears happen on the road to self-control. It's our job to get 'em back on the road.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (May 13, 2011)

I quietly joke to the older guys (teens and up) that if they start crying I will call them a wimp.


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## Thesemindz (May 13, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Before we let anybody spar we have them do line drills with light to medium contact. What that is the line up close stance and one will turn out and the other will kick with a back leg roundhouse, we also do the back kick cut kick, and fast kick. Then when they can handle that we allow them to spar, alot of people need to be brought along slowly when sparring, it is not like the old days when you lined up and just hit each other and thought it was fun.


 
It might not be like the old days, but I think the sparring is better and once you break them to karate you can still bang. You just have to get them there first. In my experience they all end up just as thirsty for combat, even if we have to walk them to the water first. And I get more women and children excited about sparring too. Once they get into it, they'll fight just as hard as the men. But if I put them in the ring against a six foot tall fully grown man and said "go!" without drawing them in first they might never learn to love it. And I want them to love it, because that's the only way they'll do it forever.


-Rob


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