# (Judo) Matwork and Aikido?  Are the traditional grappling arts still good?



## Freestyler777 (May 22, 2007)

I happen to think that Judo Matwork/grappling and Aikido is excellent, being both traditional grappling-martial arts, and Judo being a sport that one can practice in a safe manner.  I realize that most Judo throws are not as usable for self-defense, as lets say, a strangle or a hold-down, but I have always loved Judo, I practice it in NYC, and someday I will learn aikido.  I think Judo and Aikido work together.


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## zDom (May 22, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> =I realize that _most Judo throws are not as usable for self-defense_, as lets say, a strangle or a hold-down, ...



Why not? Before getting any formal training, I improvised a throw during a self-defense situation and it took the fight right out of the guy  he was DONE.

I think the REAL problem with throws is that you have to watch where you are  slam somebody down on concrete of even asphalt, and you might hurt them more than you intend or need to.


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## bluemtn (May 22, 2007)

Judo and Aikido are pretty good together (in my opinion), but I also think matching one of the two with any striking art is good too.  Judo, just like any other art, is fine for defense.  There are some techniques that you need to watch out for- throws for judo, armbars, sweeps, etc. are no different really.  You can get into just as much trouble if something goes wrong.


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## Em MacIntosh (May 22, 2007)

As far as traditional arts go, I tend to give aikido, judo and jiu jitsu more self defense credit than more strike oriented arts.  I've seen lots of people come down hard on the pavement.  I've rarely seen a strike hit a guy as hard as the cement.  Joint manipulation is one of the better ways to discourage an aggressor.  To be flexible for whatever a situation may be is a very important part of self defense, so it's definitely good to be able to strike proficiently.  Aikido, plain and simple, builds strong wrists.  Never a bad thing.


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## theletch1 (May 22, 2007)

Many of the throws in aikido, while they look graceful are designed to be either a face plant or a fall on the back of the head/neck.  This doesn't happen in the dojo, obviously, because your partner knows to roll out of it.  Any time to hit someone with the entire earth you run the risk of it being an inadvertant killing blow.  That's what's always gotten me about the confusion between a "soft" art and a "weak" art.  Arts that are not strike oriented CAN be very effective.  They are not, however, quick or instinctive arts to learn.  I studied kenpo before I began the study of aikido and I'll be the first to tell you that I'm glad I had the kenpo striking in my background.  Not only did it help me understand the dynamics of the attack a little better but it allowed me to be more comfortable with striking during or leading up to an aikido technique.


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## Em MacIntosh (May 22, 2007)

theletch1 said:


> Many of the throws in aikido, while they look graceful are designed to be either a face plant or a fall on the back of the head/neck. This doesn't happen in the dojo, obviously, because your partner knows to roll out of it. Any time to hit someone with the entire earth you run the risk of it being an inadvertant killing blow. That's what's always gotten me about the confusion between a "soft" art and a "weak" art. Arts that are not strike oriented CAN be very effective. They are not, however, quick or instinctive arts to learn. I studied kenpo before I began the study of aikido and I'll be the first to tell you that I'm glad I had the kenpo striking in my background. Not only did it help me understand the dynamics of the attack a little better but it allowed me to be more comfortable with striking during or leading up to an aikido technique.


 
I've been fortunate enough to know what you're talking about.  My jiu jitsu incorperates kickboxing and karate strikes as a set up, during and after a grapple


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## zDom (May 22, 2007)

And, of course, hapikido is all about use of striking, joint locking and throwing to overcome an aggressor.


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## Freestyler777 (May 22, 2007)

I think Judo Throws and Matwork give you the 'aliveness' of actual sparring, although I do concede that MMA is also good, but not as accesssible to as many people (physically, too few athletes that young and strong), and Aikido gives you a realitic chance of defending against knives, guns, and multiple opponents.

I think they work together, like yin and yang, aikido being yin, in this case, and live 'randori' being yang, and the traditional grappling arts still have a lot of merit in every avenue.


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## Em MacIntosh (May 22, 2007)

It's all JKD to me.  Take the lessons but apply your knowledge.  Let it be your personal expression of melee combat.  Just make sure it works.


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## Selfcritical (May 23, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> I think Judo Throws and Matwork give you the 'aliveness' of actual sparring, although I do concede that MMA is also good, but not as accesssible to as many people (physically, too few athletes that young and strong), and Aikido gives you a realitic chance of defending against knives, guns, and multiple opponents.
> 
> I think they work together, like yin and yang, aikido being yin, in this case, and live 'randori' being yang, and the traditional grappling arts still have a lot of merit in every avenue.


 
Judo groundwork and MMA groundwork are pretty much the same thing, except for the emphasis on GnP. Judo=bjj=mma for the most part


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## Hand Sword (May 23, 2007)

Excellent point! Groundwork is what it is, and has always been. The human design hasn't changed to where a "new" way had to be developed. Remember, the MMA, though considered a new thing, is formed from traditional systems. Also, Judo can be and has been used effeciently for self defense purposes.


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## Callandor (May 23, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> I think Judo and Aikido work together.





tkdgirl said:


> Judo and Aikido are pretty good together...


Yup. High level judokas are known to utilize the principles and philosophy of Aikido in their movement and throws intentionally or instinctively.



Selfcritical said:


> Judo groundwork and MMA groundwork are pretty much the same thing, except for the emphasis on GnP. Judo=bjj=mma for the most part


Yup, Judo=BJJ. The only difference is that BJJ emphasizes ground work because, according to them, 95% of the fights end up on the ground; Judo emphasizes takedowns and throws based on the premise that 95% of the fights start with the opponents standing on their feet.


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## Em MacIntosh (May 23, 2007)

You only go to the ground if they can get you there.  Unless of course that's your bread and butter.


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