# No Shadow Kick



## yipman_sifu (Jan 26, 2006)

Many people as I assume believe that master's Wong Fei Hung "No Shadow Kick" is a a fly with bunch of kicks (Similar to the one Jet Li performs in Once Upon A Time In China), but what I was told later is different. It is said that the "No Shadow Kick" was any kick that Master Fei Hung kicked, wheather it was straight, curved, high, low, and whatever. The name was given due to the speed of his kicks, it was said that his kicks was faster that to make shadows reflecting their image.

I don't believe this, what do you think?.


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## clfsean (Jan 26, 2006)

I think just posting this once is plenty.

Second the a basic understanding of the Mo Ying Gerk is it's a hidden kick & has no shadow because you're occupied elsewhere. In other words, I distract you high & kick low.


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## yipman_sifu (Jan 26, 2006)

clfsean said:
			
		

> I think just posting this once is plenty.
> 
> Second the a basic understanding of the Mo Ying Gerk is it's a hidden kick & has no shadow because you're occupied elsewhere. In other words, I distract you high & kick low.


 
well, sorry about the multiple postings, this came due a pending on the submit command. 

Sorry again for that


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## Laoshi77 (Jan 26, 2006)

> In other words, I distract you high & kick low.


 
Similar in respect to a feint, so the 'no shadow kick' is just a non-telegraphic kick. Which does not suggest it is hidden, is there a subtle difference? Or is it just that Wong Fei Hung was known for this technique?

In Ninjutsu, we have a hidden kick which can be used, before taking an opponent to the ground through arm and joint control, it is called _Kakushigeri _or hidden kick.


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## clfsean (Jan 26, 2006)

Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> Similar in respect to a feint, so the 'no shadow kick' is just a non-telegraphic kick. Which does not suggest it is hidden, is there a subtle difference? Or is it just that Wong Fei Hung was known for this technique?


 
Eh... I'm not a Hung Ga guy so I can't really comment much more than that, but my limited understanding of it is that literally you "don't see the shadow of the kick because you don't see the kick". 

It's not so much the kick moves so fast it can't be seen, but you're pre-occupied defending something else or your attention is elsewhere besides watching the low line to defend. I believe it's more if a theory than a specific kick, but not saying Hung Ga players don't have a specific kick in mind with the name. 



			
				Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> In Ninjutsu, we have a hidden kick which can be used, before taking an opponent to the ground through arm and joint control, it is called _Kakushigeri _or hidden kick.


 
Which one? The toe punch to the inside of the leg or the stomping kick? I spent a little while in the Bujinkan back in the 90's. ;-)


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## 7starmantis (Jan 26, 2006)

Yeah I've heard it both ways. I've heard it used to refer to a fron snap kick as its a nice fast kick (or should be) and I've heard it used to describe a kick that is not seen as the opponents attention is "diverted" elsewhere. Maybe if you combine both methods you will achieve the true "no shadow" kick. 

7sm


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## Laoshi77 (Jan 26, 2006)

clfsean,
I was trying to differentiate between the two kicks; Wong Fei Hung was very quick at his kicks, but would he use the feint to implement this, or was the kick hidden (like the toe-kick). However the latter, in Ninjutsu, would require some kind of joint manipulation in the arm, so the opponent would not be standing up straight. Hence the 'hidden kick' could be launched from underneath to kick in the head or body. 

Sorry if that's a bit too much?! I'm not a Hung Ga practitioner either, but a friend of mine is, i'll have to ask sometime!

All the best,


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## 7starmantis (Jan 26, 2006)

Its not so much a feint as it was just keeping the opponent busy up high. A feint could work, but a full strike would do the job even better.

7sm


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## clfsean (Jan 26, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> A feint could work, but a full strike would do the job even better.
> 
> 7sm


 
True... why bother wasting a hand? Hit him... hard & often. Then when he's busy trying to either stop the punch or recover, kick him quick & hard. Mo Ying Gerk...


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## 7starmantis (Jan 27, 2006)

Exactly!! I often find it hard to understand that people dont allways fight like that!

7sm


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## yipman_sifu (Jan 27, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Exactly!! I often find it hard to understand that people dont allways fight like that!
> 
> 7sm


 
Because most people are nervous when fighting, specially people that have little experience in the actual situations. We have a friend that fought more than 30 times as actual fighting situation. He said that doing such kicking moves needs a human to be relaxed and confident.


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## clfsean (Jan 27, 2006)

If the training is proper & complete the body will react before the mind does & the technique will happen. Confidence is a forgone conclusion & relaxation should be a constant, not a momentary necessity.


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## 7starmantis (Jan 27, 2006)

I meant more along the lines of training to fight like that....many people mock that type of fighting.

7sm


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## Laoshi77 (Jan 27, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Its not so much a feint as it was just keeping the opponent busy up high. A feint could work, but a full strike would do the job even better.


It's all a question of what works for you best in a certain situation, hence the reason why i posted a variation!


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## 7starmantis (Jan 27, 2006)

Laoshi77 said:
			
		

> It's all a question of what works for you best in a certain situation, hence the reason why i posted a variation!



I was responding to your question of whether he used a feint.

On a side note, I find it hard to see a situation that would lead me to perform a feint of any kind.

7sm


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## Laoshi77 (Jan 27, 2006)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> On a side note, I find it hard to see a situation that would lead me to perform a feint of any kind.


I do not think i would employ this technique either, although many would, such as people of a JKD background. 

Personally i would much rather respond than be the aggressor in any situation; like the sound of an echo that answers the call.


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## Changhfy (Dec 3, 2006)

Hey Sean,

Just to note the Mo Ying Gerk is not common just to Wong Fei Hung's Hong Quan Pai (Hung Kuen). But its also used in various other Southern Shaolin systems.

Wing Chun also has the Mo Ying Gerk. 

The Wan Gerk, Ching Gerk and Ding Gerk are good examples of Mo Ying Gerk. 

Chi Sim also uses the Mo Ying Gerk.


take care,
Chang


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## BlackTiger1 (Dec 3, 2006)

Greetings and salutations to all.  No shadow kick is executed, when your opponent attacks with a punch or a kick.  Which allows you to kick your opponet, without them able to see your attack.


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## edwardcloud (Dec 20, 2006)

I think his speed of the kick make it look like it is a kick without shadow


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## BlackTiger1 (Dec 22, 2006)

edwardcloud said:


> I think his speed of the kick make it look like it is a kick without shadow


Greetings and salutations edwardcloud.  Although the kick itself has to do a lot with speed, the "No Shadow Kick" received its name because it is executed when your opponent attacks and you block the attack along with block the opponents view of the kick you are executing and that is why it is called a no shadow kick.


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## Drunken_Boxer (Feb 17, 2007)

BlackTiger1 said:


> Greetings and salutations to all.  No shadow kick is executed, when your opponent attacks with a punch or a kick.  Which allows you to kick your opponet, without them able to see your attack.



I think thats impossible...maybe not,or maybe Im wrong,I dont know.
Would be glad if someone would post more of "no shadow kick",more information or somethin.
I was many years donnie yens iron monkey...and he really perform a no shadow kick to against some Ninjas,man those kicks was fast and awesome,but I think it was (speed up) right?
Those kicks was sooo f....fast man,dont know..."no shadow kick" is a strange tehnique. :/


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## BlackTiger1 (Feb 20, 2007)

Greetings and salutations a no shadow kick is possible, when your opponent attacks with a Punch and it allows you to use his arm to block or conceal your kick into his ribcage to armpit. hence the term no shadow kick.


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## Drunken_Boxer (Feb 20, 2007)

BlackTiger1 said:


> Greetings and salutations a no shadow kick is possible, when your opponent attacks with a Punch and it allows you to use his arm to block or conceal your kick into his ribcage to armpit. hence the term no shadow kick.



Yeah but...what about the Donnie Yen kick in Iron monkey?Wasnt it speed up or what?When he strikes against 3-4 ninjas.


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## BlackTiger1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Greetings and salutations Drunken Boxer, Donnie Yen in Iron Monkey is an actor following a script.  Although, he really knows Kung Fu.  He is acting, so he has to say his lines the way the director of the movie wants him to. He cannot deviate from the script.  In other words don't believe the hip.  Kung Fu regardless of the system there is no mystical or magic in any art.  There are, however secret in the systems, which will not be reveal to the public.  The no shadow kick is execute just as I have mentioned.  It is a kick and just a kick that is execute while the opponent's sight is being block with his own body parts.  Hope this is helpful to you.


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## Drunken_Boxer (Feb 21, 2007)

BlackTiger1 said:


> Greetings and salutations Drunken Boxer, Donnie Yen in Iron Monkey is an actor following a script.  Although, he really knows Kung Fu.  He is acting, so he has to say his lines the way the director of the movie wants him to. He cannot deviate from the script.  In other words don't believe the hip.  Kung Fu regardless of the system there is no mystical or magic in any art.  There are, however secret in the systems, which will not be reveal to the public.  The no shadow kick is execute just as I have mentioned.  It is a kick and just a kick that is execute while the opponent's sight is being block with his own body parts.  Hope this is helpful to you.



Yeah it was,nice read,thanks 
Did you ever heard of "shadowless hands" or "souther shadow kick"?
Chi liu chang performed it in "Operation scorpio" dont know bout the shadowless hands...hmmm I think Hwang Jang Lee used it in Drunken master 1979 right?Not sure,but I dont know,it interesting me,im a taekwondo student...I need to know everything about no shadow kick or even whatever souther shadow kick is,you know?
Thanks I hope that Im not boring you with it hehehe,that im not goin in your nerves hehe =)
See you later!


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## BlackTiger1 (Feb 21, 2007)

Greetings and salutations Drunken Boxer, I am aware you are a young man and that you are a Tae kwon do student/practitioner.  A Kung Fu student/practitioner would not ask questions such as yours, for he would have learned it in his/her kwoon.  However, your question was a good question.  Coming from someone, who does not practice Chinese Kung Fu.  And no you didn't get on my nervous.  Wish you luck on your search for enlightenment.


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