# Teens



## teej (Oct 6, 2004)

This post is directed to all instructors and possible parents. I am looking for some class room ideas and thoughts. I am not looking for opinions on where society is going with out kids. Start your own thread for that.

Anyway, in our current society, the kids today have everything right there. Technology has made things readily available to them. They get things fast when they want it. If the want to call someone, there is no waiting until they get home. They just pull a phone out of a pocket and call. If they need info on something, they just type it in a search engine and have it. No driving to the library or having to spend a lot of time searching. Take a picture, they don't have to wait several days for the pictures to come back from the developer. etc.

It seems that the kids coming up these days get things they want very fast. It seems like there are fewer kids with the quality of working hard at things. There are exceptions out there, I am sure. A lot has to do with parenting, but that is another topic for another forum.

I am seeing that teens get very bored practicing the basics. They want a fast paced class. My question is how are you keeping teens motivated in class? How do you keep their interest while getting the basics down? How do you instill the hard work involved without loosing the majority of teens?

These questions are for the newly signing up teen with no previous training or martial arts experience. A student that has been with you for years and becomes a teen is a different case.

Technology in our world today is impacting the current generations and generations to come. So, how do I get a brand new teen student to sign up and keep them as students while teaching them to work for what they want to achieve? How do you approach teaching and keeping teens interested?

Thank you, Teej


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## TigerWoman (Oct 6, 2004)

I don't think its just technology but that's a good point.  Its also the fact they start driving, having jobs, girl friends etc.  

My son quit as a bb at 15 because he was bored doing repetitive exercise but that wasn't the only reason by far.

A teen that goes with the family, I have found, is much more apt to attend regularly enough to gain some self-motivation from the practice.  

A teen needs to be encouraged.  If they have a particular skill that is better like flexibility, some praise would be good to show them they are unique (and good at the art-at least in one area)

Make practice very varied. Kicking contests-timed front kicks-how many in three minutes.  Jumping stuff.  They liked doing jump round kick going down a line of bags.  They loved flying side kick or double or triple kick to paddles.  They always liked sparring.  The girls not so much unless there are more girls/women to spar with.  We toss balls to do round kick to as a beginner and then later spin heel. We use bungee cords for resistance kicks to the bag, the higher belt teens especially like that.  When we practice alot of kicks, we do round-robin and everybody gets to practice with everybody, kicking to focus paddles with partners.  Or we do kids class (for teens & adults) which is alot of floor stuff, monkey run, crab walk, running contests, rolling on the floor, jumping over obstacles, running around or kicking over cones etc. Or standing bag practice, where you have a line of bags and we line up the group and start doing different things going down the line, punching 1, punching 2 times the next bag, 3 times the next.  Can be done with front kicks, round etc. 

I think the instructor today has to be very inventive and keep it interesting.
Hope that helps. TW


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

Postitive challenges/friendly competition, encouragement, and high expectations all balanced together.

The wonderful/lofty goal that people/teens 'should be internally motivated' is a bunch of Wiz of Oz bunk.  As adults we respond realistically to the combination of outward and internal motivations...so give them some structure that they can be challenged and feel like, even if they don't succeed hugely everytime, that they have a sense of accomplishment - develops work ethic.

The one thing that I notice in dealing with teens is the lack of cooperative skills that can (anecdotally) be linked IMO to the isolation of computer/cell phone communication which can really take away from the development of 'reading' that 70% of communication that is non-verbal.  

Teens (biological development wise as well) have a hard time recognizing accurately facial expressions and body language and may interpret everything as accusation/disapproval because that is how they feel (and not what was really felt by the sender of the message).  Basic example is the "Britney Fashion" movement where girls will choose/wear VERY revealing clothing because it makes them feel good (either because of the imitation/'wannabe' fantasy fulfillment or the fact that it accentuates the natural beauty/power of their youth) BUT then get mad at the attention they may recieve because they may (though not in all cases) percieve such attention as criticism or disapproval - when it very well often is 'approval' by drooling young boys (and some 'young at heart boys' who will feel bad about it later) and envy from other girls.


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## lvwhitebir (Oct 6, 2004)

Other instructors I've talked to have had luck with the new 'Xtreme MA' craze that Century Martial Arts has.  It has a lot more flash that teens seem to want because that's what they see in movies.  Otherwise, most schools I've talked to have had a lot of trouble with the teen market, probably because of everything else they're getting into.  It's troubling because under 24's have the highest rates for most crimes and would benefit the most from that aspect of the training.

WhiteBirch


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

lvwhitebir said:
			
		

> Other instructors I've talked to have had luck with the new 'Xtreme MA' craze that Century Martial Arts has. It has a lot more flash that teens seem to want because that's what they see in movies. Otherwise, most schools I've talked to have had a lot of trouble with the teen market, probably because of everything else they're getting into. It's troubling because under 24's have the highest rates for most crimes and would benefit the most from that aspect of the training.
> 
> WhiteBirch


Gonna spin out for a sec here:

This generation of teens are looking for 'entertainment' and 'inspiration' instead of 'training/education'.....


But, I am pretty sure that there was some early man type person in our earliest days either thinking or saying something like "That damn wheel thing is going to make our kids lazy.  They just don't appreciate the work behind dragging and hauling things on your back the way we do...technology is moving too fast"

Okay, back on topic here.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 6, 2004)

75% drop out of organized sport by age 13.  Not just in martial arts, but across the board.

The repetitive (boring) nature of many martial arts likely makes it higher in those cases.

But many do stay active.  So what is a popular teen sport?

Skateboarding would be one.

We've all seen groups of high school students spending countless hours trying to land a single trick.  How's that for dedication of repetitive tasks?

But there is a big difference between that and throwing reverse punches till there heads implode from the monotuny.

If you want to have sucess then you need a loose structure, and you need to challlenge them.  They also need to be able to meet and measure progress towards those challenges themself, not by someone handing them a belt every 3-4 months.

Extreme martial arts is one way, but there are others.  Memorizing yet another pattern of the same basic techniques to earn yet another belt is not one of them.

Boxing, kickboxing, wreslting, Submission Grappling those can all do fine too, providing they are coached right.

As for traditional arts, you got to find something that is a challenge for them to focus on, probably sparring.  Maybe in adding bits of the above stuff.

But given the choice of standning in lines throwing reverse punches or going out with friends / girlfriends / boyfriends / drinking / etc its not a suprise that they choose to be elsewhere.

But no matter what you do, your gonna lose a bunch.  They finally got freedom in there lives and they are gonna explore it.  The good news is if you give them a class that they like and want it will be minimized, and you might also pick up some of the most dedicated students you can have.


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## bignick (Oct 6, 2004)

like other people have touched on...this is a bit more indepth than just a result of "right now" attitude....

kids aren't the only ones affected by the rise of technologies like the internet and cell phones...

like andrew said...kids drop out of lots of different activities...they tried it and it's not for them..hopefully they find something constructive that they do enjoy...

like any other activitiy, martial arts takes a certain mindset...not everybody is going to find what you're teaching interesting and compelling, no matter how you change your program...you may be able to tailor your classes to keeping younger people interested...but what happens when they get older and those types of classes don't interest them anymore?

i played high school football...i was pretty decent...got recruited to a NCAA Division II school...and never joined the team...because i changed and realized football didn't appeal to me anymore...

i guess my advice would be to do what you feel necessary to keep your students intersted...but realize you can't keep everybody...


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> 75% drop out of organized sport by age 13. Not just in martial arts, but across the board.
> 
> The repetitive (boring) nature of many martial arts likely makes it higher in those cases.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with the trend in Phys Ed toward promoting "life long fitness habits" and so on. BUT the trend toward this has made team oriented sports either second place in gym classes or even depicted as 'evil' because it 'dehumanizes the individual' according to some researchers.

Individual performance sports like skateboarding and others have become popular and the residual affect is a lack of 'team building' training that has to be replaced with 'Team building lessons' when the sports practice (well managed and supervised and with the proper objectives of problem solving, conflict resolution and postive word choice) would fit the bill for such things perfectly.

I remember seeing an HBO sports special about a football coach that hugged his players, corrected them in a constructive way, didn't 'yell at them' but 'cheered them on' when he raised his voice and really pushed the cooperation/positive character benefits of doing for others. The boys were more balanced and comfortable (and aware of) with talking about emotions like disappointment, fear, anger... but weren't lashing out at each other. It was really amazing to watch.


How does this tie into the discussion topic?  Setting up a 'team' oriented environment where teens have the sense of being contributors and doers instead of watchers and followers is a good way to get them to stay.  Make them feel like they are vested and have some power in that environment.

Using a demonstration team/competition team as a postitive motivator (avoiding the 'popularity club' image) by letting all members of the youth class understand what the standards/expectations are and encouraging all members to strive for them.  If you have a person who is too shy to try, even if they have the skill and ability, let them be a coach/assistant coach that helps the team out with the gentle encouragement that eventually they should 'slay that dragon' of stage fright as a personal accomplishment ....


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## Andrew Green (Oct 6, 2004)

On that 

Skateboarding has team work, they get together and help each other learn, support each other, have friendly competition.

What is lacking is the imposed structure of a coach in control and a ref running the game.  They get to run there own sport, the way they want it, and can take it as far as they can, in whatever direction they can.

Too often organized sports idea of teamwork is do what coach says, when he says, and how he says. 

That isn't teamwork, and that isn't the players playing.  That is a coach playing and using them as pawns in his game.

The example you gave sounds like a coach that was a part of the team, not above the team.  Putting yourself above the team with anyone over 11 or 12 years old will not work very well...


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> On that
> 
> Skateboarding has team work, they get together and help each other learn, support each other, have friendly competition.
> 
> ...


Recognize what you are saying. Much of my early martial arts practice was similar to what you are describing in skateboarding so there is that element of cooperation but teamwork is slightly different in that sense. Personal ownership of your success is a big deal and what you describe provides that as well. And I do hate the "LORD COACH" approach, but that is an issue of a how it is done not so much an intrinsic part of the the structure itself.

If two guys/girls playing soccer are in the middle of a play the harmony and 'dance' of how well they support each other/read each other and almost read each others mind if they have played together for so long can not be duplicated in individual performance sports. There is a mutual 'high' from feeling that kind of coordination and sympatico with team mate. Military/LEO will know what this is like as well.

That is my reasoning for the Demo team because some of the performance elements of a demo team change 'combat applications' of martial arts skills into 'cooperative applications' when there is a drill/choreographed sequence that forces the performers to be at the right place at the right time if they are going to do it well AND really be there for their team mate.

Even Climbing, having to feed or take up slack is more team work development because you start to read the other climber's habits and tendencies and can accurately anticipate the 'big move' prep and prepare yourself for that as well.

I guess the differnence between individual performance sports (which can encourage cooperation and so on) and team sports is that the first develops 'side by side pride' of shared personal accomplishments/hardship and the latter develops 'community pride' because of a shared common accomplishment or hardship.  Both are beneficial.  Giving people a sense of both is important.

Up until my USMC/USANG days, I experienced the side by side kind of pride/cooperation through martial arts.  Once I joined, I really felt the difference between the two though.  Each has it's place.


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## bushi jon (Oct 6, 2004)

I have 2 teen age boys that have all but stopped working in the Martial Arts so what I did was volunteer to start a Martial arts club at the High School and make them the Assistant Instructors. I have made it popular in the school by involving are you ready the teachers. What I have done is put the teachers on there level making them do research and reports on Japan. While making my sons grade them it is a win win kids want to do things that are popular make your MA that thing.


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

bushi jon said:
			
		

> I have 2 teen age boys that have all but stopped working in the Martial Arts so what I did was volunteer to start a Martial arts club at the High School and make them the Assistant Instructors. I have made it popular in the school by involving are you ready the teachers. What I have done is put the teachers on there level making them do research and reports on Japan. While making my sons grade them it is a win win kids want to do things that are popular make your MA that thing.


 
Cool, and it really recognizes/acknowledges that your sons have knowledge and things that they 'own' and that 'teachers' can be students too.  Things like this are perfect 'modeling' practices because the teacher gets to be a living example of what he would hope his students were like (and it reminds teachers of some 'student issues' they may have forgotten about over time - which will make them better teachers) AND it deepens the respect (I hope) that your sons will have for the work of teaching when they sit in the student seat in that teacher's class.

Good stuff.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 6, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Up until my USMC/USANG days, I experienced the side by side kind of pride/cooperation through martial arts. Once I joined, I really felt the difference between the two though. Each has it's place.


Yes, there is deffinately a difference, but both are teamwork none the less.

Martial arts is primarily a individual sport, designed to build the individual.  However within that there is team work, leadership, co-operation, and all that other stuff.

Unless we want to get into 2 on 2 (or more) sparring, then all that changes 

But you do start to pick up on your training partners habits as you train together, you gain a feel for how different partners will react, what they will do at different times, and what you can do to them and what will get you in trouble.

Team work comes in many forms, and I think everyone would agree that it is something everyone should develop, different types and methods better suit different people.

Also this is a age group that is just beginning to break away and become independant.  The need for personal advancement and being able to stand alone is rather important.


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## loki09789 (Oct 6, 2004)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Also this is a age group that is just beginning to break away and become independant. The need for personal advancement and being able to stand alone is rather important.


Definitely a good point.  Individual and team recognition for the effort as well as the accomplishment will go a long way to keeping and developing teen students - regardless of whether you are teaching a flash and show style of program or a self defense program.

Developing teamwork in a group sport is different than a 'team individual' environment because you directly and immediately support of fail your teammate and that urgency makes things really intense in that moment.  The 'reading' of your partner is vastly different IMO in application than the 'reading of your opponent in martial arts.  Yes, during training it is a training partner you are reading, but he/she is playing the role of adversary and not partner/co worker.

You could feasibly train each member of the US Karate team in an individual fashion using sparring partners/live training targets instead of fellow teammates as 'partners' and only bring them together to travel and compete together and still be pretty successful - though it wouldn't philosophically be a great learning/training environment.  

But, you couldn't teach the USA Basketball team (uh oh, I went there ) like a bunch of individuals and bring them together for practices and have them perform well.  I think with the amount of talent that was suppose to be on the USA mens BBall team, they should have swept.  They, individually had the performance talent, they just didn't 'team up' well.

Using martial arts/individual performance sports in a team oriented way is a good thing to reinforce an idea of cooperations/reliance on other people and supporting other people and blends that internal and external motivation combination well.  The teamwork element is intrinsic to the social/philosophical structure but not necessarily the performance structure like in team sports.

Yeah, I agree different approaches for different people.  I do think a smattering of exposure to both individual and team performance is important though so that these students can make find which one they like/respond to better but still learn the lessons from both environments.

I like how a discussion about 'teamwork' and martial arts is staying so 'collegial'... different topic might have gone a whole 'nother way...


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## Han-Mi (Oct 6, 2004)

Without reading any replies(sorry y'all) I would have to say that an easy way to keep teens interested is to show them what you can do. Break some bricks and boards, do some high level sparring while they watch. If they are impressed they want to be able to do it too. If they have any drive at all, they will work on whatever they are told to as long as they see progress. 

Sometimes you have to explain and point out progress, because it comes a little at a time and they may not notice it.


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## OC Kid (Oct 7, 2004)

Everyone has already mentioned the reason why teens drop out. Yes basics are boring even for adults. What I do is make the class a very fast pace class no real standing around unless I am explaining how to do a technique. A example of my class is

20 jumping jacks on a 4 count 1,2,3,1,1,2,3,2 ect, Then run in place for 3 minutes varying the pace between fast and slow and they will on my command do knees to the chest landing in a fighting stance and rverse punch.
Then into a horse down blocks  with speed power and kiai, start by ones, then 2s then 3s,5s 7s, 25 and back down I do all 4 basic blocks that way (up/down/inside out/outside in) then demo and new block and practice it, 
Punches same thing  1s/2s/3s/5s/7s/25 and down then add maybe snap punches and so on and on. I also add push ups and sit ups in the mix to..

But anyway I keep them so busy they dont have time to be bored. Well it works for me.


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## loki09789 (Oct 8, 2004)

OC Kid said:
			
		

> Everyone has already mentioned the reason why teens drop out. Yes basics are boring even for adults. What I do is make the class a very fast pace class no real standing around unless I am explaining how to do a technique. A example of my class is
> 
> 20 jumping jacks on a 4 count 1,2,3,1,1,2,3,2 ect, Then run in place for 3 minutes varying the pace between fast and slow and they will on my command do knees to the chest landing in a fighting stance and rverse punch.
> Then into a horse down blocks with speed power and kiai, start by ones, then 2s then 3s,5s 7s, 25 and back down I do all 4 basic blocks that way (up/down/inside out/outside in) then demo and new block and practice it,
> ...


Tempo is a powerful tool.


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## OC Kid (Oct 8, 2004)

I also limit the class to a hour. I feel keeping them busy the class goes buy quickly for them. I also make it challengeing enough to keep them interested. I find its the basics that get to them so I make it fast and furious and as part of the warm ups, then get into the teaching material. Even then I explain it run them through it a few times, slow the pace down while they partner up and practice then speed it up.


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## Jim (Oct 9, 2004)

> I am seeing that teens get very bored practicing the basics. They want a fast paced class. My question is how are you keeping teens motivated in class? How do you keep their interest while getting the basics down? How do you instill the hard work involved without loosing the majority of teens?


 I give them a hiding and yell at them like a drill instructor.  They don't get that anywhere else and love it.  But that's me... I hate teenagers for all the reasons you said.


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## Lisa (Oct 9, 2004)

Jim said:
			
		

> I give them a hiding and yell at them like a drill instructor. They don't get that anywhere else and love it. But that's me... I hate teenagers for all the reasons you said.


Jim,

You have yet again forgotten the obligatory smilies in your posts ... when will you ever learn?

It's okay folks... it is his oz-tray-lian sense of humour


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## Sin (Oct 15, 2004)

personally as a teen i keep myself going a few ways.  

1.) My inner demons. (i have a lot of them and MA keeps them at bay.)

2.) Martial Arts movies  (theres nothing like trying to reenact Neo vs simith, well trying to anyways)

3.) Tournaments (I got to TKD Mcdojo tournaments and it feels good when i get to show off and win a couple trophys)

4.) Massage therpy (my MA class offers this and i wanna make the woman I marry happy one day, and also its an ice braker with some girls wile dating, or at school)

5.) bad people (the need to protect myself, others and property.


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## Adept (Nov 17, 2004)

Jim said:
			
		

> I give them a hiding and yell at them like a drill instructor. They don't get that anywhere else and love it. But that's me... I hate teenagers for all the reasons you said.


 :rofl:

 Gold


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## BrandiJo (Nov 17, 2004)

umm i keep going cus my inst is cute...but besides that i go cus its a great way to get rid of stress....the self defense is nice for a college student, the hard work does show and because its fun, we hardly ever do the same thing twice in one week, and my inst are cool like when i cant do something they work with me and when im good at something they show me how to chalange myself more


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## Rob Broad (Nov 17, 2004)

I like to use drills and games to put the basics into so it doesn't seem like we are doing the same thing over and over.  I do a theme for a night that focuses on one type of basic and I use as many creative ways as possible to use that basic over and over.  

I also treat teens as young adults and not children.  Teens learn differently than children and adults, they can absord a lot of knowledge very quickly.  When challenged a teen can often rise up higher than expected, and surprise you, and often themselves.  If you treat a teen like they can handle any challenge you give them they often will try their best to  meet your expectations.  You just have treat them with the right attitude.


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## ninhito (Nov 17, 2004)

uuuh im a teen and the only thing that i like is to get something out of it, like i need in one yr. to have gotten a whole bunch of memories and messups and stuff and the basics arent always bad. You just need to add a little somethin to them. Okay in lacrosse, sorry i havent trained in a martial art since i was 7, we keep throwing the ball and doing the basics but the drills are extremely engaging and tricky. Try to make them do the basics with alittle zest, its nothin like working up a huge sweat when your doing anything. Then you could tell them something that would make them, if they wanted to become better, like to make there kicks faster how to do that or to make their punches faster then tell them that. Man this is fun we finally give the advice heh heh heh.


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## still learning (Nov 25, 2004)

Hello, A stranger saw me walking with my little daughter, he said when see reachs 13 years old? you will become history.  

 Hormones is a natural process in growing teens, their own discovery of themselves and the other species(Boys or Girls), thoughts of being so grown up and want to be with their peers more. We can't stop this, we were once teens too.

 One thing that works, Dad and Mom saids you have to contiune to train. That's the law. When you leave high school, then you can make your own decision.

 Two, Every school knows the drop out rate for teens are high. We all try to modivate them to keep up the learning of martial arts. Many times they find part-time jobs, and want to hang around friends,then train.

 As instructors all we can do is be a mentor for them to follow. Be creative and honest. Hopefully they will attend classes. making it fun helps, but the ones that stay want to learn (they are the ones that enjoy the martial arts) 

 One more thing, We let most of the teens become leaders in class, teaching the lower ranks when we break into smaller groups,or lead the whole class thur excerise, and so on. We praise alot too. ....'Aloha


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## lvwhitebir (Nov 30, 2004)

still learning said:
			
		

> One thing that works, Dad and Mom saids you have to contiune to train. That's the law. When you leave high school, then you can make your own decision.



I'm not sure what you mean by this.  It's not the law, at least not in the US.  If your Mom and Dad says to have to be in the room, well then they can enforce this but there's no law saying you have to do what they say.  And they can't make you train nor make you want to train.  And, what instructor would want someone in the class who truly doesn't want to be there?  It'll distract the others that do.

Your other ideas are good, but I would never fall back on this argument to convince someone to train.

WhiteBirch


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## OC Kid (Dec 1, 2004)

Very true. I tell my students I can teach you but I cant make you learn. So why would a parent force a child/teen into a class they dont want to take and suffer the expense/time/hassle and why would a instructor tolerate a student who obviously doesnt want to be there. 
Unless I misunderstood the post?????


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## The Kai (Dec 1, 2004)

Most parent push thier kids into a class, because they fell for the tripe about MA and disicipline,  And then if the kid is not interested it is a chronic discipline problem ans lketting them quit would reenforce "quitting pattern".
Todd


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## OC Kid (Dec 1, 2004)

Yea yer right there. My bud has a school and I saw how he interacted with some of the students and parents ect. He told me some stories of parents calling him and having him talk to his about not doing their homework ect.  

He had adults talking to him about their marital problems ect.
I told him Jeff my brother you arent a psychologist a marriage couselor your a Karate instructor..just tell them to go seek counseling...
When they pay ya sometimes they think they own ya.


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