# The anatomy of a *wallhanger* katana



## Swordlady

Some of you may have already seen this thread on SFI.  For those of you who haven't, it is an informative look at how many of the cheap stainless steel katana are made.

I took apart one of my cheap kats (looks very much like the one in that infamous Home Shopping Network video clip), and took pictures of what lay beneath.

Here is the kat in question.  The fake ito got messed up from some swinging around:







Closeup of the handle:






The "ito" was merely a twisted strand of material, and unravelled easily:






This is what was underneath the fake ito.  A piece of black cloth that nowhere resembled same (rayskin):











Check out the big crack!


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## Swordlady

I unscrewed the little pommel nut on the end of the handle:






...and split apart a section of the handle with my hammer:











I unscrewed the end plate, and slid out the rest of the handle and separators:






Notice where the rat-tail tang is welded on.  That's liable to snap at any moment!






Another shot of the rat-tail tang:


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## Swordlady

For comparison's sake, here are a few shots of my Hanwei Practical Plus Katana (PPK) disassembled.  Mind you, the PPK is one of the least expensive production katana, but at least it has all the right parts:


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## Grey Fletch

I once had a sword like this. I cut and reshaped the blade into a full tang tanto.


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## Lisa

excuse my ignorance but should the rag tail tang be one solid piece with the sword blade itself?  

Great pics, btw.


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## Andrew Green

Very much so, that thing looks like it would break cutting a mid sized watermelon.

It's a pain because half the time they even come sharpened, so people think, cool, Let's try cutting something...

Sure, they come with a "don't use this" warning, but so does every other weapon, right down to the sticks, so the warning gets ignored.

Good thread, nice to see the insides.


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## Swordlady

Lisa said:
			
		

> excuse my ignorance but should the rag tail tang be one solid piece with the sword blade itself?
> 
> Great pics, btw.


Actually, no *functional* sword would have a rat-tail tang.  Period.  Think of the tang as the sword's foundation.  Even the simple action of swinging a sword places torque on the blade.  Its tang should be wide and thick enough to withstand the extra stress placed on the blade, caused by the swing and the resulting impact.

Notice how skinny and narrow the rat-tail tang is in my wallhanger.  Imagine if it breaks during a mid-swing.  That blade will go _flying_, since there isn't anything else holding it in place.  In comparison, the tang of my PPK is wide, and secured by two bamboo pegs.  That tang will probably not snap in two pieces, since it is wide and strong enough to withstand the extra torque placed in the blade.  You still need to be careful even with a *functional* sword; they were designed to cut flesh, _not_ hard targets like trees, concrete, or the like.

Also check out the rat-tail tang in my cheap Braveheart claymore knockoff.  See the difference between this:


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## Swordlady

...in comparison to the tang of my AT1211.  See how much wider and thicker *this* tang is?  The tang should be a continuation of the blade itself - NOT welded on.


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## Flying Crane

Good thread, good posts, good pictures.  Well done, very educational for those who don't have experience with this.

I always look for this kind if thing when I rebuild a sword.  I have rebuilt some lighter Tai Chi swords (NOT the superlight wushu swords).  As a lighter blade, they also have a lighter tang, but at least it was still a continuation of the blade itself and not just a rod welded on.  Given these are really only meant for Tai Chi forms practice, I felt they were sturdy enough for the type of use they would get, and the hilt overall was definitely much more solid and sturdy than the hilt that these swords come with.

One design trick I have developed in rebuilding hilts is to have the guard "socket" over the bottom 1/4 inch or so of the blade at the shoulder, where it becomes the tang.  The guard then extends down another 1/4 inch or so below the shouder, where it meets the grip.  This creates an envelope encasing this area, which can be a point of high stress during use.  I feel that this design increases the strength significantly, although it's just  my intuition and not based on any actual tests.  I use a similar "socketing" design where the grip meets the guard, and the grip meets the pommel, so everything on the hilt sockets together and cannot twist or spin during use.  Of course the flattened, tapered shape of the tang underneath would prevent this from happening anyway, but I still like how it all fits together tight, like a jigsaw puzzle.  Behind the grip, I screw it down with two hex nuts, which are hidden under the pommel.  A third hex nut goes behind the pommel itself, but its main function is really to just hold the pommel in place.  The main strength is the first two hex nuts behind the grip.  In addition, I cover the entire tang with a heavy epoxy.  I'm terrified of selling a sword to someone and having the blade come flying out and hurt someone.

Just a few thoughts of my own.


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## Andrew Green

So if I wanted a decent wallhanger, any reccomendations on where I might look?


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## Lisa

after seeing the difference in the pictures, I understand the importance now.  Thanks for the clarification and again, excellent thread.


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## Flying Crane

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> So if I wanted a decent wallhanger, any reccomendations on where I might look?


 
Tell me what you want, I could probably pick it up here in Chinatown in San Francisco and ship to you.  A set of three, Katana, Wakizashi, and Tanto, with cheap wooden stand, would probably cost about $50 or less.  You want a Cobra Head on the pommel?


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## Gemini

Swordlady, I have to say the amount of time and effort you've taken in creating this thread for the educational benefit of others in rare, and very much appreciated.


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## Kacey

That's really cool, thanks!  I know very little about swords, but this makes a great primer!


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## Flying Crane

Swordlady said:
			
		

> (I said it once and will say it again: Stainless steel is usually NOT used for *functional* swords!)


 
I know that this is the common wisdom regarding Stainless Steel and swords. I have found one source who feels that this notion in general is erroneous and that at least some types of stainless steel can make for a very good blade.

Jim Hrisoulas is the author of three books on sword forging: _Complete Bladesmith; Master Bladesmith; _and _Pattern-Welded Blade. _In one of these books he discusses the vast variety of steel available, and what types can make for a good blade.  He discusses the use of Stainless Steel, and feels that it can be used to make a good blade.

I don't have any personal expertise on this, but just wanted to point out a differing opinion.


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## Swordlady

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> I know that this is the common wisdom regarding Stainless Steel and swords. I have found one source who feels that this notion in general is erroneous and that at least some types of stainless steel can make for a very good blade.
> 
> Jim Hrisoulas is the author of three books on sword forging: _Complete Bladesmith; Master Bladesmith; _and _Pattern-Welded Blade. _In one of these books he discusses the vast variety of steel available, and what types can make for a good blade.  He discusses the use of Stainless Steel, and feels that it can be used to make a good blade.
> 
> I don't have any personal expertise on this, but just wanted to point out a differing opinion.



It may be true that stainless steel *could* make a viable blade, but for the most part, 99.99% of the cheap stainless steel production swords probably were NOT subjected to the proper heat treat needed to make them "functional".  And I highly doubt that our friend Calm Intention has one of those properly made stainless steel swords.

I'm not a swordmaker by any stretch, but if I remember correctly, there is a *special* kind of heat treat needed for stainless steel - which is why most swordmakers don't even bother trying to work with stainless.  I can't think of this one bladesmith's name off the top of my head; he makes stainless steel swords.  But a stainless steel sword made by him also costs several thousand dollars.


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## Flying Crane

Swordlady said:
			
		

> It may be true that stainless steel *could* make a viable blade, but for the most part, 99.99% of the cheap stainless steel production swords probably were NOT subjected to the proper heat treat needed to make them "functional". And I highly doubt that our friend Calm Intention has one of those properly made stainless steel swords.
> 
> I'm not a swordmaker by any stretch, but if I remember correctly, there is a *special* kind of heat treat needed for stainless steel - which is why most swordmakers don't even bother trying to work with stainless. I can't think of this one bladesmith's name off the top of my head; he makes stainless steel swords. But a stainless steel sword made by him also costs several thousand dollars.


 
Full agreement here.  The stuff that is generally available on the market, esp. made of stainless steel is pure junk, no doubt about it.  I was not trying to imply at all that the stainless stuff generally available might be worth considering; in my opinion, it absolutely is not.

I just wanted to point out that Mr. Hrisoulas, in his book, had a pretty strong opinion that a very good blade can be made from stainless.  However, like you state, it absolutely needs to be done properly, by someone who really knows what he is doing.


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## Lisa

Swordlady said:
			
		

> BUT...there's more to a *functional* sword than the tang.  It's also the material used (I said it once and will say it again: Stainless steel is usually NOT used for *functional* swords!) and the heat treat.  And don't forget about the blade's distal taper, which helps the sword feel well-balanced.



Maybe you could start a thread about the importance of the blade's distal taper and educate us all a little more.

I have to admit I am getting more and more intrigued


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## Bob Hubbard

One problem with wall hangers. They aren't designed to take much, if any abuse. Even against air (which is actually rather dense).

I have several from a well known seller of cheep swords. I used 1 to film a demo last year, and it was literally falling apart in my hands as I swung it, against only air. Hot glue, superglue, etc, all didn't hold, so poor was this SLO. (Sword Like Object).  
 [clip] (Latest Quicktime required, 8.08MB) Short Sword

*Stainless steel swords *are made for 1 thing: To look pretty. They are called wall hangers because that is the only use they should be put to - hanging on your wall. Other problems, besides a safety perspective is the balance, draw, and action of the display piece is wrong. They just fel and act "wrong"
*Functional weapon swords* are made from high quality carbon steel. Not stainless.
*Theatrical weapons *(these have blunt edges and are made from high quality carbon steel) are not simply a wall hanger that someone took a file or grinder to. Made specifically for movie and stage fighting, these are designed to be abused.

CAS Iberia has some nice safety tips as well.


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## Kacey

Speaking of wallhangers, if I wanted to get someone a katana as a gift, where would you suggest buying it?  I've learned a great deal from this thread already, and find it quite interesting - but while I now understand some things to look for, this would be a *display* sword... but at the same time, while I don't know that it really needs to be functional, I would like it to be quality (without costing more than my mortgage).  Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Swordlady

Hey Kacey...you may want to check out Knives R Us.  Their customer service is pretty good.  They sell low to mid-end production katana (mainly Hanwei and Cold Steel), amongst many other bladed weaponry.  If you're looking for a _display only_ katana (make sure you emphasize to the gift recipient that this sword is only for decoration!), give United Cutlery a try.  Their display katana look a bit nice and are pretty inexpensive (under $100).  Happy hunting!


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## Kacey

Thanks, I'll check those out.


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## Swordlady

Off-topic posts have been pruned from this thread and reposted in a new thread: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34462

Carry on.  

Swordlady
-MT Moderator, Sword Arts Forum


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## Swordlady

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> I'll just say(after the worry on the other thread), that my swords all have the correct width of tang- even wider than the depiction I've seen displayed above.


 
Just thinking about what kind of swords you're talking about.  Do they vaguely resemble either of the attached pictures?  Because neither of those models handle remotely like a _real_ katana.  I've owned a set of those "steak knife-like" katana, and they handle more like oversized knives.  And the cord wrapping on the handle of the other full-tang sword (as pictured) tend to get undone after some use.


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## Cryozombie

Hey, I have both of those... well the one on the right is slightly different, but similar.  I use them as costume props and in films.

The one on the left is the sword I carried as "Chainmail Bob" in a post-apocalyptic retelling of "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Comes"...

And I would say from experience, Thats about all they are good for, IMO.


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## Swordlady

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Hey, I have both of those... well the one on the right is slightly different, but similar. I use them as costume props and in films.
> 
> The one on the left is the sword I carried as "Chainmail Bob" in a post-apocalyptic retelling of "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Comes"...
> 
> And I would say from experience, Thats about all they are good for, IMO.


 
Exactly.  Display swords should be used for DISPLAY only.

Check out the reviews for the cord-wrapped "full tang" sword on Swords Online.  Quite a few broken swords: http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=0ceb7a4bec1d406cc29ebc6f7f34a55c&FDX=&FMAX=&SORT=&ITEM=WM-1799&TTAB=CUSTOMER_REVIEWS

Edited to add: My mistake.  Okay...the customers may have been happy, but many of them still wound up with a broken sword!


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## Swordlady

Many of you probably have seen this video of a salesman on the Home Shopping Network getting stabbed by a broken wallhanger katana.  For those of you who haven't, here is a link: http://www.funlol.com/funpages/freak-sword-accident.html


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## FistOfBuddha

Sorry to jump in late, but I wanted to reiterate what Mr. Hubbard stated about cheap wallhangers falling apart. I bought a set from a large sword seller on Ebay, and while they looked good, they were beyond cheaply made. One of the swords fell from its display stand (sitting on top of a bookshelf) to the floor...a drop of perhaps 5 feet at most, and the sword literally broke in half. It doesn't take much to imagine the danger of someone purchasing such wallhangers and attempted to duel with them.


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## whitetiger2001

How can I tell if my swords have regular tangs instead of the rat tail version without dismantling it?


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## Swordlady

whitetiger2001 said:
			
		

> How can I tell if my swords have regular tangs instead of the rat tail version without dismantling it?



For starters, if your swords has a 440 or 420 stainless steel mark on the blade, it isn't going to be "functional" by any stretch.  There is at least one swordsmith who *does* use stainless steel for sword blades, but his stuff is also VERY expensive - at least several thousand dollars for one of his swords.

The other thing to consider that just because a sword has a full tang, it does NOT mean it is a *functional* sword.  Read the "Is my sword real" thread for more information.  Reputable swordmakers do not use "buzz words" like "combat ready", "battle ready", etc.  Watch out for those phrases or any hyperboles endorsing a sword.  I would stick with reputable production sword companies and makers.  These are a few examples, and not an exhaustive list by any stretch:

Low-end: Windlass, MRL, some Hanwei/Paul Chen, some Cold Steel.  Most of Windlass and MRL swords come unsharpened.  Quality control is sometimes an issue.  You can get a good quality inexpensive sword, or a total lemon.  I recommend going through a sword dealer with a solid return policy.

Mid-level would be something along the lines of Angus Trim (semi-production European swords), Last Legend katana, the more expensive Hanwei katana (e.g., their folded blades), and some other companies I can't think of at the moment.

High-level production/semi-production would be Bugei, Liveblade, Citadel for katana.

Keep in mind that good quality Japanese katana cost considerably more than most European swords, because the blade forging process and sword fittings are more complicated.  Gus Trim and Albion are pretty good bang for the buck, as far as European swords go.

I hope this helps a little.


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