# Frank Dux



## Josh Oakley (Jul 21, 2008)

Okay, I only know about the guy from Bloodsport, and I'm pretty sure that means I don't know anything about him. I have a friend that trained under him, and loves the guy. I just met him up in Mill Creek, WA and he's offering a couple of classes. Worth my time or not? 

I'd like to get the scoop from people who have actually trained with him if possible.


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## jks9199 (Jul 21, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Okay, I only know about the guy from Bloodsport, and I'm pretty sure that means I don't know anything about him. I have a friend that trained under him, and loves the guy. I just met him up in Mill Creek, WA and he's offering a couple of classes. Worth my time or not?
> 
> I'd like to get the scoop from people who have actually trained with him if possible.


Let me suggest that you take advantage of the Search function.  You'll find numerous threads about him.  You may also want to check out the Ninjutsu FAQs, as well.

Unfortunately, you're probably not going to be impressed with what you find.  Frank Dux doesn't enjoy a particularly good reputation throughout the martial arts community.  There are just too many things that nobody can verify and that don't add up.


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## Brian King (Jul 21, 2008)

Josh, 
Meet with your friend and work out with him then decide for yourself if the training is worth it or not. In the 90s sometime I met a gentleman who had trained with Mr. Dux and he was accomplished and taught well (I do not remember other training that the gentleman may or may not have had). I also do not remember his name but he was physically handicapped yet did not let that weaken his work. I enjoyed the few classes that we had together. Your mileage may vary and your friend may or may not be the teacher for you, but only one way to find out for sure..get some time working with him in person to find out. Good or bad the experience may well be enriching depending on the lessons you learn from the experience. Regarding Mr. Dux and his reputation, I have never met the man himself so have no opinion other than finding some of his claims improbable and amusing. 

Regards
Brian King


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## terryl965 (Jul 21, 2008)

Everybody needs to walk there own path, go train and make up your own mind. Just be aware that alot of his info. id not credible withen the Martial Art community.


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## profesormental (Jul 21, 2008)

Greetings.

My advice is similar. Go and train and have fun.

There is a guy here that is a Dux Ryu trained guy.

Technically not the best, yet he has a lot of heart, determination, courage and integrity. His students see that, and they are loyal to him.

Heart, determination and Warrior Spirit are very hard to teach, and if they get that from training, in my eyes, it is good training. I do not care where it is from.

Also, the students have fun and enjoy their time.

I hope you do too.

sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

P.S. remember that there are different things everyone looks for. If it fits you, then go for it.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 22, 2008)

We can not discern if the training will be worth your time only you can. There are varying thoughts on Mr. Dux  just as there are on many people.  Depending on your level of knowledge in the arts and what is taught you may or may not learn techniques from the time spent. You will however have a little better idea of what the man teaches and how he presents himself and what he teaches.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 22, 2008)

Bad Martial arts is like watching a car accident you have to watch!!

 Frank Dux has countless threads about him on many many sites.

If one word can be used to describe him it would be Fraud.

But It could be fun to watch.

opcorn:

How come this is posted in SKH/Quest forum?


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## newtothe dark (Jul 22, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing Jade


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Jul 22, 2008)

Frank Dux not only has a bad reputation with Martial Artists but also with certain veteran's group. Its seems he wants to be a jack of all trades but is definitely a master of none........


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## Andrew Green (Jul 22, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Okay, I only know about the guy from Bloodsport, and I'm pretty sure that means I don't know anything about him. I have a friend that trained under him, and loves the guy. I just met him up in Mill Creek, WA and he's offering a couple of classes. Worth my time or not?
> 
> I'd like to get the scoop from people who have actually trained with him if possible.




I think your best bet is to punch "Frank Dux" into google and do a little research yourself.  He's got a lot of stuff about him and his claims online, not a whole lot of it positive.


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## ArmorOfGod (Jul 22, 2008)

There is something to keep in mind though: even if your friend is good or not (and he very well could be good), Dux' reputation will shadow him, and in turn, you as well.
Like everyone said, go give your friend a try, but I am warning you that if you tell anyone you train in the Dux line, you will never be taken seriously, regardless of how good you become.

AoG


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## ArmorOfGod (Jul 22, 2008)

http://www.frank-dux.com/    his official site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Dux   one of 28 million sites talking about him and the controversies surrounding him.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 22, 2008)

Oh, heck, I've already read about him. I'd rather get some first hand input.


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Oh, heck, I've already read about him. I'd rather get some first hand input.


 
Ok then I need to ask this question why ask us because you knew what the response was going to be? Seem like beating a dead horse to me.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 22, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Bad Martial arts is like watching a car accident you have to watch!!
> 
> Frank Dux has countless threads about him on many many sites.
> 
> ...


 
I posted this on here because it said "any other related topics". I don't know if he's a fraud or not. I haven't trained with him and I haven't seen him in action. 

Why is it I ask if anyone here has trained with the guy, and get a bunch of people talking about what the internet says about him. I can and HAVE already researched him extensively on the internet. Frankly (no pun intended) it's hard to tell who's right or wrong there because most all websites I have seen are not first-hand sources. 

That's why I was looking for first-hand experience. If you tell me about websites, it means you know as much as I do about him, which is nothing--nothing particularly credible, in any event.

So has anyone actually trained with the guy?


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## MJS (Jul 22, 2008)

In all honesty, if you're really interested in training, I'd go with one of the following:

Bujinkan

Genbukan

Jinenkan

SKH


IMHO, if you're interested in training, if you're going to be spending money, and you want to learn something that has a good reputation, I'd want to train under someone who has a good reputation.  

Now, I'm sure some will suggest staying away from Hayes and the controversy that surrounds him, however, if it was a toss up between Dux and Hayes, I'd go with Hayes.  IMO, his reputation is more solid than Dux.

Mike


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 22, 2008)

> I posted this on here because it said "any other related topics".


 Hmm don't know how he is related to Steven Hayes or Ninjutsu.



> Why is it I ask if anyone here has trained with the guy, and get a bunch of people talking about what the internet says about him.


 
Because of this most likely:



> I don't know anything about him.


 And this:



> Worth my time or not


 


> I don't know anything about him


 
then you say this:


> I can and HAVE already researched him extensively on the internet


 



> If you tell me about websites, it means you know as much as I do about him, which is nothing--nothing particularly credible, in any event.


 I don't have to meet someone to know if they are a fraud or not. If someone says they train in a mystic Japanese Ninja clan but can not speak Japanese well I can make up my own mind. But like they say suckers comes a dime a dozen and looks like if you buy into it  Dux's already has 2 out of that dozen meaning you and your friend. Cheers!!


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## theletch1 (Jul 22, 2008)

Gents, as this thread is regarding Mr. Dux let's make every attempt not to make the responses personal.  There are opinions of Dux that run the entire gamut.  While many, indeed most, will question his abilities and lineage I'm certain that there are those that will defend him to the utmost of their ability.  What say we attempt to remember that MT does have an anti-fraud busting policy and that we are a "Friendly" place for discussion.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## terryl965 (Jul 22, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> I posted this on here because it said "any other related topics". I don't know if he's a fraud or not. I haven't trained with him and I haven't seen him in action.
> 
> Why is it I ask if anyone here has trained with the guy, and get a bunch of people talking about what the internet says about him. I can and HAVE already researched him extensively on the internet. Frankly (no pun intended) it's hard to tell who's right or wrong there because most all websites I have seen are not first-hand sources.
> 
> ...


 

Simple his linage and timeframe are in accurate at best, the military says he is a fake, the martial art community says he is a fake, so why would I or any other legit martial artist train with a fake. Plain and simple if you ask me.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 22, 2008)

My apologies for coming off a bit strong.

Josh in all truthfullness follow your heart.


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## chinto01 (Jul 23, 2008)

I say give it a whirl and see what happens. As long as there is no long term commitment on your end it can't hurt.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## Hawke (Jul 23, 2008)

Contact Chuck Cory.  He has some first hand knowledge of Mr. Dux.

http://www.sansoomichigan.com/


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 23, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Simple his linage and timeframe are in accurate at best, the military says he is a fake, the martial art community says he is a fake, so why would I or any other legit martial artist train with a fake. Plain and simple if you ask me.


 
Let's break this down:



> Simple his linage and timeframe are in accurate at best, the military says he is a fake


 
Who can I talk to to verify this? A PERSON, not a website.



> the martial art community says he is a fake


WHO in the martial arts community? Strike that. WHO in the martial arts community that have actually SEEN him in ACTION or TRAINED with him? Anyone can say anything about anyone, but that doesn't give them credibility. The community as a whole has, I can safely state, not even MET the man. Why should I listen to the martial arts community. Heck, who's their spokesman?



> Plain and simple if you ask me.


Yes, it *is* plain and simple. But I did *not* ask you. I asked whoever has actual experience with the guy. Do you have experience with the guy? 

Let me state again. I'm looking for people who have trained with Frank Dux. *If you have not trained with him, or met him, or know someone who trained with him, or even seen him in action* What can you possibly tell me that I haven't already read on a website?


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 23, 2008)

Hawke said:


> Contact Chuck Cory. He has some first hand knowledge of Mr. Dux.
> 
> http://www.sansoomichigan.com/


 
Now there's the help I was looking for.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 23, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> My apologies for coming off a bit strong.
> 
> Josh in all truthfullness follow your heart.


 
No problem. You're normally a cool guy, anyway.


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## terryl965 (Jul 23, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Let's break this down:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*Well there you have it from someone that has meet him and have done some training with him. I was a Military Brat for all my life my Father was a Master Sergent in the U.S.M.C. so I do have some friends of the family that have nothing good to say about the man. I am sorry if you was looking for something else and believe me I was not trying to upset anybody but you ask and I answered for you.  The best advice is for you to go train and if you find value then that is all that matters. I did not try to come of like that but when people that claim one thing and can be disproven by our Military on certain timeframes you have to ask yourself why. Best of luck and please let us know how the training goes and I wish you success in that training.*


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 24, 2008)

Josh
If you do train  with Mr. Dux  would you please tell us here at MT how that training goes. What was covered and if it was presented in a way most could understand and apply.
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts (as I take it you have never met him before)

sheldon


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 24, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> *Well there you have it from someone that has meet him and have done some training with him. I was a Military Brat for all my life my Father was a Master Sergent in the U.S.M.C. so I do have some friends of the family that have nothing good to say about the man. I am sorry if you was looking for something else and believe me I was not trying to upset anybody but you ask and I answered for you. The best advice is for you to go train and if you find value then that is all that matters. I did not try to come of like that but when people that claim one thing and can be disproven by our Military on certain timeframes you have to ask yourself why. Best of luck and please let us know how the training goes and I wish you success in that training.*


 
Okay, now i'm clear. This is the first time you said you trained with him. I had gotten tired of asking for people and getting a million responses with websites. Thanks for your patience.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 24, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> Josh
> If you do train with Mr. Dux would you please tell us here at MT how that training goes. What was covered and if it was presented in a way most could understand and apply.
> I would be interested in hearing your thoughts (as I take it you have never met him before)
> 
> sheldon


 
Actually I did meet him last week. He seemed like a really nice guy. But i am going to train this Sunday. I plan on reporting back.


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## terryl965 (Jul 24, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Okay, now i'm clear. This is the first time you said you trained with him. I had gotten tired of asking for people and getting a million responses with websites. Thanks for your patience.


 
I try to be a little suttle about it and let people make there own decissions. Sorry for being so invasive about it.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 24, 2008)

Happens. That's the downside of the internet. Language is 80% non-verbal. Here, the other 20% has to represent the whole. Naturally, miscommunication often occurs.


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## Josh Oakley (Jul 24, 2008)

MJS said:


> In all honesty, if you're really interested in training, I'd go with one of the following:
> 
> Bujinkan
> 
> ...


 
I already teach Shaolin Kempo full time. I care less about reputation and more about effectiveness.


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## terryl965 (Jul 24, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> I already teach Shaolin Kempo full time. I care less about reputation and more about effectiveness.


 
I agree reputation is up to the one training weall have our differences, but we all must walk our own path as well.


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 16, 2008)

Well, I finally had a chance to train with Mr. Dux, and I'll say I liked it and I'm going back. The training was hard-hitting, effective, and helped me figure out better ways to explain to my students what I was trying to teach them earlier. I also got a fuller understanding of things I was already doing, and more importantly, things I was doing that weren't working. Seeing as he's letting me mow his lawn as payment for now, I've every intention to train with him when I can. I was impressed.


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## Brian S (Sep 17, 2008)

Well good then!!

 Just because someone makes up stories to sound cool and to make some money doesn't mean they are a bad martial artist!


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 17, 2008)

If there's one thing I've learned, it's never believe legends, the good or the bad. Always seek to know the man. That's why I'm training under frank right now. He's a really nice man, and he has some great things to teach me.


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## terryl965 (Sep 17, 2008)

If you believe you are getting value then I applaud you. Remember some people just do not like anybody.


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## Nolerama (Sep 17, 2008)

how's the wallet?


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## astrobiologist (Sep 17, 2008)

I hope it continues to work out for you.  Just remember to keep your mind and eyes open.

I personally had not heard of the rumors and debate about Dux before reading this thread.  It sounds like a lot of people have used public information well to expose some lies that Dux had made.  I'm not judging though.  I don't know the man and it doesn't seem like his lies have really hurt anyone.  I do have to say though, the next time my buddies and I watch _Bloodsport_ I'm telling them about all of this...


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2008)

astrobiologist said:


> I do have to say though, *the next time* my buddies and I watch _Bloodsport_ I'm telling them about all of this...


 
You'd watch it again?  Once wasn't enough?


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 17, 2008)

Nolerama said:


> how's the wallet?


 
I guess you didn't read the part where I'm mowing his lawn as payment?


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 17, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> You'd watch it again? Once wasn't enough?


 

Yeah, i don't think I could watch that movie again, myself.


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## bowser666 (Sep 17, 2008)

It is always best to keep an open mind. Not to mention probabably 50% or more of the stuff you find on the internet is false anyways.  Some people think Google Search reveals all answers.  LOL  ANyways,  I am glad to hear that your training is going good. It is also awesome to hear that you mow hsi lawn for payment. A jerk wouldn't do that , he would say, no money ?  Get lost.


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## tko4u (Sep 17, 2008)

The guy has a pretty bad rep, but I have learned that sometimes believe it or not, people will say things about another martial artist that arent true! So I'd like to make up my mind for myself. I actually looked the guy up not too long ago, found out he doesnt like van damme at all!


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## Perpetual White Belt (Sep 17, 2008)

tko4u said:


> The guy has a pretty bad rep, but I have learned that sometimes believe it or not, people will say things about another martial artist that arent true! So I'd like to make up my mind for myself. I actually looked the guy up not too long ago, found out he doesnt like van damme at all!


 That's cuz they went to court over some movie non-sense.


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## BrandonLucas (Sep 18, 2008)

If Van Damme grew a beard....

Yeah, you're right.  The real Dux looks nothing like him.

I still think Bloodsport rocks face, though.  How can you not get pumped after watching that?


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## tko4u (Sep 19, 2008)

BrandonLucas said:


> If Van Damme grew a beard....
> 
> Yeah, you're right. The real Dux looks nothing like him.
> 
> I still think Bloodsport rocks face, though. How can you not get pumped after watching that?


 
I second that!!!!!!!!!!!!! Van Damme rocks it, vintage one liners and all!


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## Josh Oakley (Sep 25, 2008)

Frank showed me some pictures from his early days, and Van Damme looks a LOT like him from back then.


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## BrandonLucas (Sep 25, 2008)

Josh Oakley said:


> Frank showed me some pictures from his early days, and Van Damme looks a LOT like him from back then.


 
It would be awesome if you could somehow share those pictures with us...


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## Josh Oakley (Oct 4, 2008)

I can do that.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...endID=346595645&albumID=223141&imageID=697883

When you see it, remember it's Frank Dux. NOT Jean Claude.


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