# forum died



## American HKD (Jul 27, 2005)

Greetings,

Did anybody notice how this forum died after too much input from the management? 

There is such a thing as crossing the line and some may have no agrument from me, but it's seems that thiers and excessive amount of moderation going on here from one particular moderator.

That's my opinion of what happened to a once lively forum.


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## Bester (Jul 27, 2005)

Well, I noticed most of the self-important, rude, disrespectful, and flat out jackass's are gone.  Maybe that's all the Hapkido community has to offer? Once you remove the blow-hards, the posturing and the weenie-waggling, they can't think of anything else to discuss?

I mean, it's not like there is really any substance to the art, a rich history, complex and exciting techniques, dynamic personalities or any events going on right?  Or is there?  I couldn't tell myself as you folks were too often too busy arguing over who's interpretation of the sacred cow was correct, and who ranked who, and hurling threats of violence and legal bull **** when you don't get your way.

Maybe if there was something in hapkido actually worth talking about, you would have more traffic?

But, there isn't is there? 

Just whining, bitching, and dick measuring with a schoolyard mindset.

Or, can you prove me wrong?


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## Bester (Jul 27, 2005)

Oh, and don't ***** about the mod. The sexism in the Korean community is rather disgusting IMHO. She's just doing her job, and maybe if you children could play nice, she wouldn't have to babysit you all as much.

Seriously, you've had moments where you were worse than the fake "Amerikan Ninjers".


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## howard (Jul 27, 2005)

Hi Stuart, I have to respectfully disagree with you... I thought the mods were ok here.  They explained whey they did what they did to Bruce.  Assuming that their explanations are accurate, and I have no reason to doubt them, they gave him enough rope, and he hanged himself.  I think it's really between them and him.


I've never felt intimidated by the mods here.

Regards, Howard


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## KenpoTess (Jul 27, 2005)

Greetings,

How about putting your best foot forward and adding some good interesting threads to this area.  The Staff is doing their job, and if the members put forth an effort to keep threads of interest going, then nobody should have reason to complain.

Also please review MT's Rules and Policies  http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=314&

~Tess
-MT S. Mod



			
				American HKD said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> Did anybody notice how this forum died after too much input from the management?
> 
> ...


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## shesulsa (Jul 27, 2005)

Thank you, Tess.

 Here's a few topics the Hapkido community could be discussing in a friendly manner:

 Offensive joint lock throwing
 Defense against joint locks
 Use of locks in grappling situations
 Viability in combat
 modifying for disarming
 Applications in takedowns
 Follow-ups

 There could be more discussion on combat Hapkido and weaponry.

 Anyone else have some ideas for friendly discussion in this forum?


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## Seig (Jul 27, 2005)

For the record, if anyone has a question about why something was or was not done, or a complaint about the staff, they are welcome to bring it to me, privately.

SEIG
MT OPS ADMIN


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 27, 2005)

American HKD said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> Did anybody notice how this forum died after too much input from the management?
> 
> ...





Similiar things happened on the Kenpo and Modern Arnis sections, as in some people were either warned or asked to leave, or left on their own. Then after time people started to post about topics and techniques.

It goes in cycles, besides it is nice outside, maybe people are out doing fun outside activities. I know historically our posts are down in the summer time.

Peace


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## Martial Tucker (Jul 27, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Thank you, Tess.
> 
> Here's a few topics the Hapkido community could be discussing in a friendly manner:
> 
> ...


 It seemed to me that most of the arguments stemmed from "discussions" on where/how Hapkido originated, and (apparently) more importantly, who gets the credit for what it has become. While I found these "discussions" occasionally informative, I certainly grew weary of their inevitable evolution into schoolyard chest-thumping, as mentioned earlier. While I am very interested in the evolution of Hapkido as we now know it, I have much better things to do than to get angry at someone else's interpretation of something that may or may not have happened decades ago, and has no relevance to the advancement of the art NOW.... I'm not sure why a forum for discussion about a beautiful art such as Hapkido always seems to degrade into a "Holy War", where rather than learning from each other, there seems to be more of a tendency towards "mine is better".

 Personally, I would love to see an objective, level-headed discussion comparing and contrasting the various "kwans" of Hapkido, e.g, Sin Moo; Yon Mu; Jung Ki; Yong Sul, etc....Specifically, how do they compare in overall philosophy, how are their techniques similar/dissimilar, etc.
 From these discussions, I think multiple other threads along the lines of what Shesulsa suggested above could evolve, but only if these discussions can be continued in a detached. unemotional, clinical manner. Anybody up to the challenge?


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## howard (Jul 27, 2005)

Martial Tucker said:
			
		

> ...Personally, I would love to see an objective, level-headed discussion comparing and contrasting the various "kwans" of Hapkido, e.g, Sin Moo; Yon Mu; Jung Ki; Yong Sul, etc....Specifically, how do they compare in overall philosophy, how are their techniques similar/dissimilar, etc...


 So would I... and I think a lot of us are "up to the challenge".  The similarities probably far outweigh the differences.

 Maybe we can give it a try, and hope that the zeaots of the "Holy War", to use your term, will stay away?


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## Kevin F. Donohue (Jul 27, 2005)

Stuart,

 The forum was quite "lively" ...I will agree, but we do not own this forum and they had every right to handle the board and it's content any way they want. They have rules for a reason and they enforced them.

   Bester,

 I love the way you make some negative generalizations about the Hapkido community and then preface it with some sort of challenge to prove you wrong. 

 I agree that many of these posts on these boards were sophomoric and less than open minded but no less so than your posts on this very thread. Your comment regarding sexism in the Korean Community...do you mean on this board...in Hapkido...in Korean martial arts in general or in the overall Korean culture? If you mean the Korean martial arts or Hapkido specifically, you are way off base. I have studied many arts, from various cultures and can tell you that the Hapkido people are amongst the most welcoming to women. 

 You seem to group Stuart in with some of the other people on this board. Stuart has always been a gentleman and is always willing to help others in the Hapkido community. He only asked a question and stated his opinion. Why the offensive barragehis post was not nasty? Why did you take such offense to it? Can a man question a woman and not have you label it as sexism? I can only assume that your comment regarding "sexism" was fueled by Stuarts post. Stuart did not identify the individual moderators sex at all. How was his statement sexist in anyway?

 While discussion boards can be educational...they are mostly entertaining. Hapkido is practiced on the mats...not through a keyboard. If you want to really find out about Hapkido... let me know where you are and I maybe able to find a good school in your area. I think your generalized view will be changed forever. 

 Also...don't bad mouth the "AmeriKan Ninjers" ... one may be behind you waiting to deliver the three finger death touch technique. Best of Luck !!!.

  Kevin F. Donohue


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## Paul B (Jul 27, 2005)

Nah..it's not dead..just in hibernation. 

Sooner or later a new revelation will come along about "ownership" or "authenticity" or some such nonsense. 

People will be warned..then banned..then it's back into sleep mode again.

Besides..who would actually want to talk about something useful when it's much more..uhh.."stimulating" to have "weenie wagging" contests.

It would probably be a great idea to have a "Great Hapkido Debate" thread so people can go in and say "Hey...me and Yong Sool Choi were so tight I just called him "Yongie" or something equally pedantic. 

If it's one thing I have taken out of these discussions it's to spend more time on the mat and less time BSing about who is closer to the source. I think on the mat is about as close as one can get,anyway. My 2c's..spend 'em wisely.


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## American HKD (Jul 27, 2005)

Kevin F. Donohue said:
			
		

> Stuart,
> 
> The forum was quite "lively" ...I will agree, but we do not own this forum and they had every right to handle the board and it's content any way they want. They have rules for a reason and they enforced them.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kevin!

A month a go I particpated in a nice Po Bak Sool dicussion with no problems until it was stopped cold by a moderator. 

A long leash is needed not a slap down at the slightest lateral movement, dicussion need to flow, breath, etc. not be kept in a tight 4 connered box.

As far sexism goes I don't distinguish between male & female, just good or not so good that's my perspective of the situation too much input. 

But I agree it's the board's right to moderate as they see fit.

Seig I did voice a complaint when Bruce was acting up. I felt there was too much moderation you felt otherwise and that was that.

Anyway this post has had more input than others in several weeks.


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## hardheadjarhead (Jul 27, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Thank you, Tess.
> 
> Here's a few topics the Hapkido community could be discussing in a friendly manner:
> 
> ...




Excellent suggestions...and those with supporting memberships can post pics outlining the techniques discussed.  Once I get my digital camera, I hope to do that.  It'll be awhile...so don't hold your breath.


Regards,


Steve


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## Paul B (Jul 27, 2005)

It's on now. I forgot I could do that..*evil chuckle*


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## arnisador (Jul 27, 2005)

The KMA fora have always been slow. What's needed is a critical mass of posters, like in Modern Arnis or Kenpo. Increasing returns and all that.


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## Bester (Jul 28, 2005)

Considering who the most active moderator in here is, how often this particular moderator was disrespected by a few ego-strokers a while back, it is very easy to see just who is being referenced. When one says "The Mod" it usually is aimed at a particular person, despite the fact that there may be several.  If one had said "A Mod" that is of course different. I don't have to check her papers or credentials to know she's the boss, and on -THIS- floor, out ranks me.  On another floor, it may be different, it may not be. But here, she and the other staff are in charge. Don't like it, take it higher up.  Talk to the bosses.  But don't whine about it, and don't blame the mods for your forums decline. Rest of the board gets pretty much the same scrutiny, I don't see them whining.

I am sorry if some take my bluntness the wrong or even the right way.  The simple fact is that the beauty and grace of this art is too often lost in all the bickering and "part wiggling", and that in effect turns off both long time, and potential new students of the art.

It is true, the essence cannot be seen on a message board.
But the spirit of those who train it can be.
Words tell a story, sometimes one you don't even realize.

Show me, oh, the hell with me, show everyone else, that you all aren't like those who have been booted. Show you're true martial artists, who have become more than someone who can grunt and punch and bang your chest.  It'll be a refreshing experience, to see true sharing, true comraderie, true spirit, rather than ego, rank, and attitude.

Me, I'll be watching.  Might even ask a few questions, unless I'm busy kicking a few Sokes or 12 degree paper tigers.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 28, 2005)

Bester said:
			
		

> It is true, the essence cannot be seen on a message board.
> But the spirit of those who train it can be.
> Words tell a story, sometimes one you don't even realize.
> 
> ...


Amen to that! Its all about the means not the end! Well maybe..

Since we are all Martial Artists, maybe the focus as you said should be more on true comraderie and discussion not defending our ego's with our oppinions of superior artistry!
Regards


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 28, 2005)

Bester said:
			
		

> Considering who the most active moderator in here is, . . .



Bester et al,

Also realize that the moderator, is sometimes just the messenger. A post is reported, and discussion has occurred, and then the execution of what was decided, happens. 

So in essence I say do not kill the messenger.

And as you also said



			
				Bester said:
			
		

> . . . take it higher up. Talk to the bosses . . .



This is true. If you have a question, look at the staff page and find a member to contact.

Good training everyone


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## DngrRuss (Jul 29, 2005)

Okay, I've been banging heads over in the Study, and it is finally time that I got over here to the HKD board.  Nice to see some of my compatriots and friendly advasaries from other threads and forums here as well.  

 As to some of the above posts-
 I like to think that we are all merely guests here, like people at a house for a dinner party.  We can have some lively, spirited, and sometimes oppositional discussions, so long as we are all remaining friends and respecting the host's home and rules.  But, when one or two of us start drinking to excess, spilling the gravy, grabbing the hostess's boobs, and calling out anyone out who says to stop, don't whine about being asked to leave or being forced to leave.  You have simply become an a-hole and need to be removed.  Alright- maybe my little analogy is a bit colorful, but having been on both sides of the _drunken a-hole meltdown syndrome_, I thought it would be appropriate, accurate, or at least sarcastic.

 So I think my point here is: _Don't drink and type... _no, that's not it...

 How about _Friends don't let friends post drunk... _nope, not it either...

 Oh wait, I know- _If you grab a moderator's boobs- getting banned is the least of your worries..._ wait, that doesn't even make sense...

 I'll just go with _Hapkido Rules!  So the rest of you snivelling whiners can shut the hell up!  _Damn... I think I should have stopped at 4 glasses of wine.

 Did I actually have a point?  Not sure.  But it's time for the obligatory quote and response:


			
				Bester said:
			
		

> Show you're true martial artists, who have become more than someone who can grunt and punch and bang your chest.


 But what if you are a Martial Artist who _LIKES_ grunting, punching, and banging your chest?  Does that make me a bad boy daddy?  Grunting, punching, and banging my chest have worked quite well for me in the past, and I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I tried to be a _sensative guy_ back in the 80's- didn't work too well for me, so I went back to the grunting.  What about scratching?  I enjoy a good manly scratch from time to time.  Is that bad for a Martial Artist?  What about flinging poo? ... Okay, maybe not flinging poo...

 What was my point again?  Oh yea:
 Fellow Hapkidoin- stop it with the finger pointing, genital wagging, and poo flinging.  Who did what, who said what, and who started what is _IRRELAVENT _training and teaching our students.  If a student wants to learn history- give them a book.  If you think that my approach, or any other HKD practitioner's is wrong because it doesn't look like, smell like or taste like yours- _OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN' MINDS!_  There are plenty of detractors on the outside, don't make things harder on the inside.  Accept each other and learn from each other.  Noone- I repeat- NOONE holds a corner on the learning market.  In a system like HKD, that preaches openess and accumulated learning (at least in most of the cases I have experienced), you would think that we could do that to ourselves.

 Love you guys... really... no, I meen it....


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## DngrRuss (Jul 31, 2005)

Remember- there's enough poo for everyone:uhyeah:




 .. you can thank my wife for that one...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 31, 2005)

My cat would agree.  (We call him Iron Chef Poo, because he looks just like Iron Chef Italian, but works in litter, not pasta.)


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## howard (Jul 31, 2005)

DngrRuss said:
			
		

> Okay, I've been banging heads over in the Study, and it is finally time that I got over here to the HKD board. Nice to see some of my compatriots and friendly advasaries from other threads and forums here as well.
> 
> As to some of the above posts-
> I like to think that we are all merely guests here, like people at a house for a dinner party. We can have some lively, spirited, and sometimes oppositional discussions, so long as we are all remaining friends and respecting the host's home and rules. But, when one or two of us start drinking to excess, spilling the gravy, grabbing the hostess's boobs, and calling out anyone out who says to stop, don't whine about being asked to leave or being forced to leave. You have simply become an a-hole and need to be removed. Alright- maybe my little analogy is a bit colorful, but having been on both sides of the _drunken a-hole meltdown syndrome_, I thought it would be appropriate, accurate, or at least sarcastic.
> ...


 ROFLMAO!  Very nice.  And very funny.


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