# can anyone tell me how to combat police brutality



## eggg1994 (Jan 17, 2011)

hey everyone i have a question i want to ask so any of you in law enforcement please don't be offended so my question is how can i defend against an abusive police officer physically. i know you may think im crazy but i really hate police brutality as much as yall do. the reason why im asking this question is because i want to stop police brutality so much that i want to ruthlessly hurt them so much. you know we as citiens have the right of self defence even against a cop who is misusing his powers. im willing to get shot or even killed just to stop police brutality physically and the reason why is because they are no longer officers of the law and they are a criminal. i would like some advice to defeat and subdue an aubsive officer and i want to know why shouldn't i inflict injury on someone who is brutally hurting someone as a cop. this has to end now.


----------



## Carol (Jan 17, 2011)

Don't get in to trouble, and it will end immediately.


----------



## Archangel M (Jan 17, 2011)

You are in Japan?


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> hey everyone i have a question i want to ask so any of you in law enforcement please don't be offended so my question is how can i defend against an abusive police officer physically. i know you may think im crazy but i really hate police brutality as much as yall do. the reason why im asking this question is because i want to stop police brutality so much that i want to ruthlessly hurt them so much. you know we as citiens have the right of self defence even against a cop who is misusing his powers. im willing to get shot or even killed just to stop police brutality physically and the reason why is because they are no longer officers of the law and they are a criminal. i would like some advice to defeat and subdue an aubsive officer and i want to know why shouldn't i inflict injury on someone who is brutally hurting someone as a cop. this has to end now.


 


Is this  a specific case or just in general? Is there a police officer you know who you think is being abusive or is it that you think that in general police shouldn't be abusive?


----------



## eggg1994 (Jan 17, 2011)

nobody is abusing me i just want to know how to defend against a police officer who is using his power abusively. what i mean is i want to know how to subdue a abusive officer who is beating the crap out of a gay, handicapped, or black person. i just want to know how to stop a cop of using too much force on inicents.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> nobody is abusing me i just want to know how to defend against a police officer who is using his power abusively. what i mean is i want to know how to subdue a abusive officer who is beating the crap out of a gay, handicapped, or black person. i just want to know how to stop a cop of using too much force on inicents.


 
Ok, firstly it's unlikely you will see such an incident, if someone is abusing another person it is usually done secretly. If you think a police officer is abusing their authority there are channels to go through to complain, for many reasons it would not do for you to interfere in what you think might be an abusive incident. firstly if you come across a scene you may not have enough information to act, you won't know who is being abused, it may be the police officer is having to defend him/herself and thats not always a clean thing to see. If what you see is correct and someone is being abused by a police officer you may end up being badly hurt yourself.

Thankfully, 'rogue' police officers are rare, the media make a great deal of publicity when there is a case so it may seem that there are more cases of police brutality than there really are. We have several police officers on MT and if you ask them they will tell you the same. The best thing is honestly, not to worry about things that may not happen and just continue your training and learning to cope with life. Don't throw in problems that in all likelihood will never happen. 

See if you can talk to a local police officer who understands your concerns and why you are concerned, I'm sure they will put your mind at rest about this.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 17, 2011)

You don't.
You file complaints, film it, avoid further confrontation, send the video to the media, and let the system work it out.
If you get physical with a cop, you will be the one who gets the worst end of things.
You'll be arrested. You'll be charged. You'll get to spend time in court.
And even if it was reasonably justified, you'll still have spent a lot of money and lost a lot of time.  If you think youre going to wade in and physically stop a bad cop you're wrong. If you think you can do it and be seen as a hero, you're very wrong.

The number of "bad cops" in the US/Canada is under 1% of total police strength. 
Outside of the US, I don't keep up with stats.

In a 3rd world totalitarian state, fighting the cops could get you killed. Slowly, painfully, and in a not pretty way.


----------



## eggg1994 (Jan 17, 2011)

you know i don't like that rogue cops can treat you abusively and get away with hurting someone. you know its like they can treat us like crap and i really hate rogue cops who use their power ruthlessly. i think we should have the right of self defence against unlawful arrest or anything without evidence or proof. you know one day i will create an organization that will ruthlessly assasinate rogue cops who ruthlessly beat the tar out of someone who didn't even do anything. rogue cops may think they have power but they don't. i really want to stop police brutality, bullying, rapist, and child abusers because those people are the most types i hate so much. why should i coroperate with a criminal who is a cop. why should i let a rogue cop beat the crap out of me and leave me in a pool of my own blood huh why. i just hate it that we don't have the same power they do.


----------



## geezer (Jan 17, 2011)

Bob's got it 100% right. You don't fight "brutality" by fighting with the cops. You fight it by getting pictures or video on your cellphone, getting witnesses and filing a complaint. Police departments have internal affairs divisions that root this stuff out. If that doesn't work, there is always the media.

If you, yourself, are the victim, don't resist. It will not only make it worse for you physically and legally, it will destroy any credibility your complaint will have later. Instead, try to minimize the abuse by being compliant and cooperative, while focusing on getting the offending officer's name, badge number, and noting any facts that will give your future complaint more weight. Later, when you are out of danger, you can pursue legal remedies that may actually improve conditions in your community. Lashing out at an officer will not do that. It _will_ screw up your life. The key here is to remember that cops are not the enemy. They are people. Most are decent folks with a tough job. They may tend to stick together, but they hate brutality too.


----------



## geezer (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> ...you know one day i will create an organization that will ruthlessly assasinate rogue cops...



Now that's what I call *crazy-talk.* I hope you are very young, because then I might be able to write it off as a kid's tantrum. Otherwise you need help, dude. We had a guy here in my state (Arizona) who went around ranting like that. Name's Jared Loughner. Ring a bell? I hope you aren't another one from his mold. Seriously, get a grip or get some help.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> you know i don't like that rogue cops can treat you abusively and get away with hurting someone. you know its like they can treat us like crap and i really hate rogue cops who use their power ruthlessly. i think we should have the right of self defence against unlawful arrest or anything without evidence or proof. you know one day i will create an organization that will ruthlessly assasinate rogue cops who ruthlessly beat the tar out of someone who didn't even do anything. rogue cops may think they have power but they don't. i really want to stop police brutality, bullying, rapist, and child abusers because those people are the most types i hate so much. why should i coroperate with a criminal who is a cop. why should i let a rogue cop beat the crap out of me and leave me in a pool of my own blood huh why. i just hate it that we don't have the same power they do.


 
Eggg, your willingness to do good is fine but you are getting ahead of yourself. Everybody hates unfairness and people who abuse others. The best way though to help is to take a good look at what you can do rather than what you might do in the future.
Train your martial arts well, learn to teach people who are considered weak in our society, show them how martial arts can make them more confident, fitter and more able to cope with life. Show them that martial arts can bring you friends and a sense of achievement. This way some of the weaker people will become stronger and it will be down to you. 

Leave the sorting out of the bad guys to those who can do it, do your bit in helping people not become victims. That's a huge thing to do, without victims the bullies have a hard time.


----------



## eggg1994 (Jan 17, 2011)

i know they hate brutality and i understand that their job is hard then ours but that still gives them no right to treat us like crap sometimes. those rogue cops are criminals and does that mean we just let them beat the crap out of us. i have seen news videos or rogue officers beating up special needs kids like my older brother and handicapped people they even go as far as beating up a suspect which in law enforcement you can't punch or kick a person while their handcuffed. those dirty ruthless cops beat up people with autism too and thats something i can never forgive.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

geezer said:


> Now that's what I call *crazy-talk.* I hope you are very young, because then I might be able to write it off as a kid's tantrum. Otherwise you need help, dude. We had a guy here in my state (Arizona) who went around ranting like that. Name's Jared Loughner. Ring a bell? I hope you aren't another one from his mold. Seriously, get a grip or get some help.


 

Eggg isn't mad or crazy, he just gets an idea and goes overboard with it. His sense of justice is keen but he doesn't know the best way forward.

He isn't ranting and doesn't need help in the way you mean it.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> i know they hate brutality and i understand that their job is hard then ours but that still gives them no right to treat us like crap sometimes. those rogue cops are criminals and does that mean we just let them beat the crap out of us. i have seen news videos or rogue officers beating up special needs kids like my older brother and handicapped people they even go as far as beating up a suspect which in law enforcement you can't punch or kick a person while their handcuffed. those dirty ruthless cops beat up people with autism too and thats something i can never forgive.


 

I know, eggg, life is sometimes unfair, you know that but sometimes the best thing we can do is to be the best *we* can and try to help others be the best they can. You can do that with your martial arts, it seems hard to tell you not to do anything about this because it is wrong for people to bully and abuse but do leave it to those who will sort it out. For every bad cop there are hundreds, thousands even, of good ones and eventually the bad cops will be caught.
You concentrate on your life, make the best of it you can and you'll see I'm right. 

Spend your life helping those less well off than yourself and educate people about autism and how hard it is but how you can cope with it. Believe in yourself eggg, because I know you can help a great many people, that way you will be doing your bit to help defeat the abusers. We must all do what we can, but getting too excited about it will only upset other people.


----------



## Empty Hands (Jan 17, 2011)

Come on, you guys are buying this?


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> Come on, you guys are buying this?


 
No, Eggg is not a troll, we've been through all this before. He's a rather nice young man who happens to have autism. He's also a martial artist. His views may seem extreme but to be honest they are no less extreme, just less well worded, than some of the 'political' posters on here. Oh and he's open to changing his mind when people post information and views which is more than I can say for some.


----------



## Slipper (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi Eggg!

Is there something that you have seen that has you worried about police brutality? Even if it's only something that you have seen on the news, if you can link it here, maybe we can all look at it and see where you are coming from. 

The law enforcement that I've worked with before have all been very kind, especially in regards to disability issues. I'm not sure what exactly has upset you, but it's my opinion that police brutality is very rare and probably not something you will personally encounter. 

Something you can do to help is to help educate law enforcement on how those with disability appear to the public (and also to the police). Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. If you saw someone who appeared to be staggering, you might think they are intoxicated rather than disabled, same with slurred speech. That might set a basis for misunderstanding. If my memory is correct, you are still in school. See if your teacher will help you put together some information on autism and present it to someone at your local police station. I know that many law enforcement agencies have information already (usually given to them by an advocacy agency), but I'm sure they would take the time to listen to you. Plus, it would give you a chance to meet them. If you want some links or more information, pm me and I'll gather them together for you. 

I actually presented this at my daughter's school (she's still in elementary so the topic was different) for law enforcement to be aware of how children with disabilities might respond in an emergency. I also felt it was important for the kids in her classroom to see community helpers (police, fire dept, ambulance workers) in full gear and still know they are friends who are there to help. 

There's a lot of information out there that I think you would be interested in. 

If you see a police officer attacking someone, you shouldn't intervene. You don't know the circumstances. They could be in the middle of busting someone for any reason. If you intervene, you run the risk of being hurt yourself, being arrested and possibly helping a bad person get away. 

If you haven't spoken to your Sensei about this, perhaps you should? I'm sure he would have insight that would help you. 

All the best to you Eggg


----------



## LuckyKBoxer (Jan 17, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> Come on, you guys are buying this?


 
Finally we absoutely positively agree 100% on something.


----------



## Slipper (Jan 17, 2011)

I've known Eggg prior to his coming to this board. He's not a troll.


----------



## LuckyKBoxer (Jan 17, 2011)

I really do not see how this guy is so different from Loughner.
He is off in a way that nobody can really put their finger on... other hten a few people who have never met him claiming he is autistic.
he keeps making comments about not caring is he gets shot or killed to fight some injustice or wrong in his eyes.
he keeps talking about hating certain people, and actions..

here he is talking passionately about hating cops... abusive ones, but sayuign he wants to fight them.
My suggestion is someone needs to report him to the authorities, and maybe we can avoid another Loughner situation in a couple years.

Maybe his posts are innocent, but he sure sounds to me like a frustrated, confused, violent prone individual who has anti authority leanings...

I hope he is just a troll, and not someone who is going to do either something stupid and get himself hurt, or worse do something evil and hurt alot of other people because he has a slanted view of the world.


----------



## LuckyKBoxer (Jan 17, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> No, Eggg is not a troll, we've been through all this before. He's a rather nice young man who happens to have autism. He's also a martial artist. His views may seem extreme but to be honest they are no less extreme, just less well worded, than some of the 'political' posters on here. Oh and he's open to changing his mind when people post information and views which is more than I can say for some.


 
How do you know this for sure?
Look I know you and I have our differences, but would you be willing to take responsibility for this guy? You honestly think he is harmless? I wonder if Loughner had a mild form of what could be diagnosed as autism now days?.... just wondering.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> How do you know this for sure?
> Look I know you and I have our differences, but would you be willing to take responsibility for this guy? You honestly think he is harmless? I wonder if Loughner had a mild form of what could be diagnosed as autism now days?.... just wondering.


 

So much for putting me on ignore roflmao.

I know because I know Slipper and if she says so it's true.

Yes, I would be willing to take responsiblity for him.

I've heard far worse on other parts of MT. For example at the moment there's a thread celebrating snipers. 
The boy has expressed his indignation on police brutality, go back on some of the threads about police 'beating people up' here and you will find some perfectly 'sane' and 'reasonable' people practically getting a lynching party ready. On the political threads, there are people claiming all sorts such as Sarah Palin being responsible for the Arizona shootings, and that Hitler was a communist, you think that's normal? 

If anything eggg is being honest, we've had so called 'normal' people on here saying worse things only in better sentences, spelling and English, perhaps it doesn't look so bad then?

If I edited his posts into a more understandable language do you really think it would be that bad? Would it be worse than a 16 year old 'normal' martial artist insulting and laughing at a 12 year old martial artist, or remember the thread about the NZ guy who single handedly took on a bunch of robbers because the police, bystanders etc were all rubbish and cowards he said? there's some outrageous things being said on MT when you get to subjects such as abortion, religion and politics, young eggg has an honest rant about bent coppers and thinks one day he could stop it, he's mistaken but we could tell him that in a kinder way.


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> hey everyone i have a question i want to ask so any of you in law enforcement please don't be offended so my question is how can i defend against an abusive police officer physically. i know you may think im crazy but i really hate police brutality as much as yall do. the reason why im asking this question is because i want to stop police brutality so much that i want to ruthlessly hurt them so much. you know we as citiens have the right of self defence even against a cop who is misusing his powers. im willing to get shot or even killed just to stop police brutality physically and the reason why is because they are no longer officers of the law and they are a criminal. i would like some advice to defeat and subdue an aubsive officer and i want to know why shouldn't i inflict injury on someone who is brutally hurting someone as a cop. this has to end now.


 
Eggg forgive me if I edit your posts to make a point. 

_Hello, I wonder if you'd mind if I asked everyone a question? I don't mean to offend anyone but with police brutality often being in the media these days I was wondering what I could do if I got caught up by one of these police officers bent on beating me up? I know it sounds odd but when I see this stuff on the television it makes me really angry and I get worried in case it happens to me. When I see someone misusing his authority I don't see why we don't have the right of self defence as we would if it were a normal criminal and can hurt them back. I really think these abuses need to stop now. _



"you know i don't like that rogue cops can treat you abusively and get away with hurting someone. you know its like they can treat us like crap and i really hate rogue cops who use their power ruthlessly. i think we should have the right of self defence against unlawful arrest or anything without evidence or proof. you know one day i will create an organization that will ruthlessly assasinate rogue cops who ruthlessly beat the tar out of someone who didn't even do anything. rogue cops may think they have power but they don't. i really want to stop police brutality, bullying, rapist, and child abusers because those people are the most types i hate so much. why should i coroperate with a criminal who is a cop. why should i let a rogue cop beat the crap out of me and leave me in a pool of my own blood huh why. i just hate it that we don't have the same power they do."

_I feel it's wrong that abusive police officers seem to be able to get away with abusing people, it's as if they think they can treat us how they like. People should be able to use the laws of self defence when wrongly arrested. I would like to be able to start an organisation that could stop these things happening and punish those responsible because at the moment I feel helpless. I want to stop all the brutality, the bullying, the child abusers and the rapists._


there you go! I have to say I have read arguments for using self defence laws against police officers on MT before, I believe there was even a thread on whether you can use 'self defence' against a police officer if you believe you are being wrongfully arrested and want to resist. The answers given by the LEOs here I believe was go with the officers and sort it out, resisting arrest even when you believe it's unlawful will end up with you being hurt so eggg isn't so far wrong there.
Plenty of people who feel helpless have thoughts about 'sorting out' the people who torment them or make them afraid. It's a scary world even for those who think they have it sorted. Today was the funeral in Eire of a girl who was murdered on her honeymoon, she'd walked into her hotel room on some thieves who killed her. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12201427

There's a revolution going on in Tunisia and tourists are being attacked. There's all sorts going on, it's a frightening place and to feel weak and helpless but wanting to change it is understandable even if it's unlikely to happen superhero style.


----------



## punisher73 (Jan 17, 2011)

It's a very gray area.  The law allows you to resist an unlawful use of force against yourself or another person.  The problem?  Most people are NOT trained in use of force policies or a use of force continuum and don't know why an officer is using the force he is using even though it is legally justified.

So, a police officer may be using legal force and then you try to intercede and now you have just made the situation force by attacking the cop.  Also, depending on the situation you may have escalating it into a deadly force situation because of the changing circumstances, at the very least you interfering will have raised the bar the police can legally use to keep safe.

Your best bet is record what you see and document it and then report it to the proper agency and authorities.  Everytime force is used, a use of force report should be filled out and will have on there what the escalation of force used it vs. what the officer used.

As a side note, if you and your brother have autism that is another issue that more and more police agencies are getting training in.  An autistic person looks "normal" and unless a family member is there to talk with the police they arent' going to understand.  The behavior that they witness many times will call for the use of force because they don't know they are dealing with an autistic subject and that is how they cope.  We had a situation here that was very similiar the police responded to a disturbance call and the person was autistic and refuse all commands by the police and then started banging their head on the wall.  The police used force protect the person and that only resulted in the person trying to attack the police.  See how a honest mistake can happen because police weren't informed about his condition and they weren't prepared or trained to deal with that?

If you want to helpe, start getting training together for your local police agency on the signs and symptoms of autism.  Have them trained to know what to look for and types of behavior an autistic person may exhibit as a coping mechanism.  Also, start an awareness campaign for family members as well to help police identify their loved ones so they know coming into the situation.  Things such as medical bracelets, or notifying dispatch ahead of time with their name flagged to give officers a heads up.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 17, 2011)

*To make a particular point clear, threats to kill anyone, including law enforcement officers is not welcome here. Such can and will be reported to the appropriate authorities whenever possible.  I trust this point is clear.*


----------



## eggg1994 (Jan 17, 2011)

luckyboxer you need to just shut your mouth don't you ever make me angry you arrogant brat. you need to hush right now you know you have no power over me. you don't even know how old i am you pathetic fool. my name is spincer and you better believe it because your a failure luckyboxer and you will always be a failure in my eyes


----------



## Tez3 (Jan 17, 2011)

eggg1994 said:


> luckyboxer you need to just shut your mouth don't you ever make me angry you arrogant brat. you need to hush right now you know you have no power over me. you don't even know how old i am you pathetic fool. my name is spincer and you better believe it because your a failure luckyboxer and you will always be a failure in my eyes


 
Eggg, stop it now. 

Please apologise to LuckyBoxer, if you hate bullying please don't try to bully others. You're right, he doesn't know anything about you, so tell him about yourself properly, make him understand what it is like being you, don't get angry and say things you will regret. You wouldn't like it if we did it to you. Have a think and then come back properly and we can have a proper discussion.

If you rant like this people will think you are mad, you're not so don't act like it.


----------



## seasoned (Jan 17, 2011)

Posts like this should be taken off line in a PM and not in an open forum.


----------



## Slipper (Jan 17, 2011)

Eggg, Tez is right. I've seen you post on other boards and I know you are able to post without acting poorly.

I have tried to help you on this board and I know that Tez has done the same. You are coming close to a point where we cannot help you, not because we don't want to, but because we can't. Being upset over police brutality is one thing - threatening others is going too far.


----------



## seasoned (Jan 17, 2011)

We are here to help people, but, the subject matter is veering a bit off course and counter productive for the sake of the populous at large. Just a thought...........


----------



## LuckyKBoxer (Jan 17, 2011)

> *get out*
> you need to shut up you arrogant brat and don't you ever call me evil. FIRST OF ALL YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME. second YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IM LIKE IN REALITY I COULD BE ANYONE. GET OUT OF MY THREAD NOW. you know nothing about me plus your facts about me are wrong you have a very big ego MAD MOUTHING PEOPLE, MAKING PEOPLE LOOK BAD, and you are an EMBARRISMENT TO ME. I AM MORE MATURE AND HANSOME THEN YOU WILL EVER BE


 
Ok so he doesn't have issues, I just got this from him in my inbox. 
The problem as I see it Tez is not that he is having a problem in translation, its that he is using terminology like " Ruthlessly Hurt" and "Hate" and making statements that he does not care if he is killed doing what he wants to do. He also is asking for advice to beat up and capture a law enforcement officer for what he interprets to be abuse.
I think as has already been stated here, even the most obvious cases of police brutality are an extremely small percentage, and this kid does not seem to have a firm grasp on reality, I still have to say that this person needs to be reported to the local authorities, and someone needs to look into him. There is something seriously wrong here. Even in other threads where people have extreme opinions, I have not yet seen anyone wanting to actively go out and ruthlessly hurt anyone else, especially a police office and have no worries about being killed. Like I said this screams at me of incidents like the recent one in Arizona... Columbine... and other shootings where disturbed individuals are involved... is he harmless and just having a problem communicating? Possibly, but maybe if someone had followed up with Loughner more then maybe we wouldnt have dead 9 year olds, dead federal judges, and critically injured Congresswomen on our hands...


----------



## Bruno@MT (Jan 17, 2011)

Ok this thread is closed pending moderator review.


----------

