# Systema and other arts



## Ironman (Nov 20, 2004)

hey there,
         i recently started systema and i'm quite imressed by all the techniques it offers and also the way the body moves naturally. however, i'm not quite sure if i should another art along side it like Kali, possibly for better knife work, do any of you have a background in Knife arts and what do you think of Systema Knife work in comparison to those arts. Although keep in mind i have only been doing systema for about 2 weeks so i might not have the depth (any supporting words would be nice ).


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## Kenpodoc (Nov 20, 2004)

Ironman said:
			
		

> hey there,
> i recently started systema and i'm quite imressed by all the techniques it offers and also the way the body moves naturally. however, i'm not quite sure if i should another art along side it like Kali, possibly for better knife work, do any of you have a background in Knife arts and what do you think of Systema Knife work in comparison to those arts. Although keep in mind i have only been doing systema for about 2 weeks so i might not have the depth (any supporting words would be nice ).


FMA has great knife work but you won't find better than is already in Systema.  Put your heart and soul in Systema for a couple of years before you revisit this question.

Jeff :asian:


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## Vadim (Nov 20, 2004)

I also recently started training in Systema. I feel it is a completely differently method of handling conflict like I have never seen. The fluidity of the movements is what I enjoy. Keep training in Systema and keep us posted.

-Vadim


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## Furtry (Nov 20, 2004)

Main reason why I became involved was the knife work. No difference in how you train, punch or stab same movement.


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## Ironman (Nov 20, 2004)

thanks for the response guys , yeh i'm VERY impressed with it already but i guess i'm still insecure. On the same subject, what do you guys think of these tapes http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/


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## Jay Bell (Nov 20, 2004)

If it's the ones I'm thinking of, I think of them as little as possible.


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## Cruentus (Nov 21, 2004)

Ironman said:
			
		

> thanks for the response guys , yeh i'm VERY impressed with it already but i guess i'm still insecure. On the same subject, what do you guys think of these tapes http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/



Um, What's going on there in that website above?

Anyways,

I'll offer some insight from an FMAers viewpoint.

I am only about 6 hours or so from Vladimir, so I run accross systema players in the FMA circles all the time. FMAers have said that systema has benifited them greatly; and Systema players have said that FMA has benefited them as well. I plan to play with systema at somepoint myself.

That being said, though, I would say that there is wisdom in sticking in one style or method for a couple of years or so at least to build a good base before you seriously branch off and study something else.

So, if I were a systema player with a good instructor, I would stick with systema for a few years, except for the occasional seminar in other things, before I would branch off. And as far as the blade is concerned, it would seem that Systema has plenty of knife work to keep you busy for awhile.   

Yours,

Paul Janulis


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## NYCRonin (Nov 21, 2004)

Tulisan -- I agree with your post, alot.
I have some FMA experience and it is still something that makes up a part of my personal 'vocabulary' of movement.

Although Systema has become my core - I admit it...I still find my movement doing a male/female triangle at times, when I am 'in the world'.

If one is dedicated to the overall goals of deep knowledge of combative arts and the many sideroads and benefits they bestow - then a few years of study in an art can only benefit your 'way-ist understanding' ... and if you chose to devote to another study of the whole - you have to realize, this is not a sport - nor a game - it is TRULY a way of life and livining well. And as such, once on 'the path'; (if this is what is 'you') then you will study until your last breath, and perhaps beyond....whatever/if there might be.


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## Ironman (Nov 21, 2004)

thanks both for the insights, i do plan to stick with Systema for another 4 years or so.


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## Arthur (Nov 22, 2004)

I had 7-8 years of FMA experience before discovering Systema. after about 7 months of Systema I felt that in an empty handed situation I would likely end up using systema skills for protection but if it came down to blades I'd still use FMA. After about 2.5-3 years of Systema I started feeling that even in a knife situation I'd use a lot of Systema. 3-4 years in I felt there was a good chance I'd use mostly Systema. Now... I can't imagine using anything but systema, nor can I imagine even making the verbal distinctions I use to make. 

I am what I am... I know I will work in a way appropriate to who I am... and whether I am succesful or not, it will be cause i do what I do. Understanding that is I think... intrinsically Systema.

If I was bright I'd end this post at the last sentence... but being a guy of a helpful nature... I thought I'd add a few more things.

IMO, some of the guys make a good point in discussing the quality of the instructor. If the local FMA guy is better than the local RMA guiy maybe its just better to study FMA and vice versa.

Beyond that... if people are really interested in self defense and surviving dangerous interpersonal conflict... they should also explore the realities of those issues and find an art that speaks to them. There is a big difference between knife dueling and learning how to minimize the internal damage when sucker stabbed from behind. There is a big difference between learning a nifty knife disarm and learning to escape from 3 guys trying to gut you. There is a big difference between dealing with a knife that is deployed mid fight and learning how to approach a pre-deployed blade.

IMO, these are issues people should consider when choosing their instructor.

Arthur


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## Ironman (Nov 22, 2004)

thanks a lot Art, yeh three weeks in and i see a lot of cool things, no doubt as i grow with it; i will build up confidence. By the way, although you might not know this, but the reason i descovered and presued Systema was information i got from one your students a while back.


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## NYCRonin (Nov 22, 2004)

Ah, the ripples in the pond, from the cast stone named Arthur...wonderful thing!
Have fun Ironman - welcome to the community.

Since you 'ripple' from my good friend Arthurs 'stone' - I suggest you visit his forum, if you have not done so already.

RobG(reen)


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## Ironman (Nov 23, 2004)

oh i have probably overstayed my welcome at his site by depleting every ounch of Bandwidth he has (seen every video possibly about X 10)


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## Arthur (Nov 23, 2004)

You know you can download them once and then watch at your leisure off your hard drive :wink2: 

Glad you enjoy the clips... 

This is the latest:
http://www.rmaforum.com/video2/sne_bootshampoo.wmv

which went up earlier in the week. There should be some new one's going up by the end of Thanksgiving weekend.

Arthur
PS thanks for the shameless plug NYCRonin.


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## johnykenpoman (Nov 24, 2004)

I am late on this thread so I dont know if you will have the oppurtunity to listen to my post.  I have trained in the waariors path since the age of 16.  I started with an art called Daito Ryu Aiki ujutsu.  As the years progressed I went on to train in Kaili, Kenpo and many chinese styles.  I have had the privlage to have trained with some great instructors and people I call Masters.  I, my name being John Austin, happened upon a Systema seminar with Martin Wheeler about two months ago, and he informed me of a seminar with Vadimar Vasilivev in Sarasota.  I was enlightened and humbled by a man.  The simpel thing would be to say he demonstrated great martial ability: he did.  Another thing was that his skill and technique with empty hand or weapons were incredible: they were.  But the crutial elememt to his instruction was open hearted, open minded and born of a warrior protocol that was learnable and available.  My body might not be close to those I have shared Systema with but my heart is.  I can assure you that you you will not find  a martial art or comrads and the ability to take a knife from your enemy with ease and the knowledge how to terminate your enemies.  Thank god Systema is about personal development and not how to gut people.  Have no fear the techniques of murder in Kali are in Systema.  But if we refer to our knives then we have already failed.


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## NYCRonin (Nov 24, 2004)

Mr. Austin
   I read your words - and 'feel' them also. I was a 30 year+ veteran of the 'way' before Vlad crossed my path - changed my perceptions - removed my delusions through pain, movement and contusions. He is one of few iconic, yet little known; Masters of martial methodology alive today. 
   Systema? It really is 'The System' for a good path of self protection and personal power and growth...the best I ever found, at least.
    And 'this' is MORE than enough for this 50 year old way-ist to devote the remainder of his life to. If you ever head to NYC, sir - please IM me way before - and I promise to direct you to the best of Systema in the area.
     Hell, if you come my way, lets 'play' as friends and brothers in 'The Way'!
Just let me know way ahead of time - an open and respectful invitation, from one way-ist to another. Agreed?


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## Ironman (Nov 24, 2004)

thanx for the input guys , BTW Art...did the guy on the ground (from the video) actually live to make it another day?


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## MattW (Nov 25, 2004)

Haha, he's still alive and kicking. I must say though, it was fun kicking him (I'm the guy on the right that stomp kicks him in the kidney area).


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## David (Nov 25, 2004)

Of course I'm still here :-D.

Nothing is more educational than an ambush like that.  Thanks Matt, Arthur, Mario.

-Dave


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## Ironman (Nov 25, 2004)

Phew...you're a tough guy, thought they would have rushed you to the ER.


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## kroh (Nov 26, 2004)

I second that...that vid was intense...

Good to know that you are still here and I have to tell you...

most of the people in some of the classes I go to would have broken down sobbing after the first kick...

Youch...
Regards, 
Walt


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