# So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, and over weight, ....



## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2006)

So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy.

What is wrong with the above?

I have good cholesterol. (* Actually on meds to raise it *)

I am trying to loose more weight and maintain my percent body fat to below 23% and get it below 20%.

I train in martial arts, and, work in a career.


Yes, I was married, it did not work, and yes there is baggage or scars, but I think I am over most of it. (* Twitch *)

I do miss not having children, and spoil my nieces, and nephews, and my friends kids, that also call me Uncle. 

So, why do people, seem to think something is broken with me, that must be fixed?

Why must I have a wife and kids to have anything? Yes they would have been great. I had a misstep and took cautions to not repeat, and just not found the right one yet.


Just curious as to why the Amercian Society in general (* others can chime in with their societies point of view, as I would like to hear it as well *), thinks that something is wrong, and poor me?

Is there a root cause to this, in our biology? Am I really broken and need to be fixed?

Is there something our society, trains its members without thinking about it? Did I miss that lesson?

Thank you for your replies.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 16, 2006)

Because if you don't have a wife, 2.3 childrens and 1.4 pets you are somehow weird and broken. They would be more understanding of you if you could simply dye your hair plaid and stick a spike through your head.


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## Lisa (Mar 16, 2006)

Because at that age, if you aren't taken by now there has to be something wrong with you.  You must have some sort of "weirdo" gene or something.  And being divorced doesn't help, one woman didn't want you, so it plays against you.  Sad, but true


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## beau_safken (Mar 16, 2006)

If you dont have that many things and people around than you cant consume enough to meet the creditors dream for your money.  

It's only weird to those that are too blind to see the obvious.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 16, 2006)

Im in the same boat man.  Only younger.

And its true, women dont want divorced men, we are damaged goods.​


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## Flatlander (Mar 16, 2006)

Rich said:
			
		

> Is there a root cause to this, in our biology? Am I really broken and need to be fixed?


Here's my take: I'd say that people simply assume that you must want a woman.  Not only that, but they see and know that you're a good dude, and they want it for you too - so they sympathize.  In that respect, they behave in a way that makes it obvious to you that they "wish it wasn't the case" that you're single.

And once they have themselves off in the wrong direction, they take your projection of happiness and see it as false bravado.  So, as a result, you end up feeling peculiar, because nobody seems to get it.

That's my guess.


			
				Technopunk said:
			
		

> And its true, women dont want divorced men, we are damaged goods.​


Seriously?  That's kind of brutal.  Do you see divorced women as damaged goods with respect to whether or not you'd pursue them?


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## Cryozombie (Mar 16, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Seriously?  That's kind of brutal.  Do you see divorced women as damaged goods with respect to whether or not you'd pursue them?



Here is the double edged sword.

If you are a divorced guy, you are "damaged goods"... you must have done SOMTHING to be divoirced.

IF you consider a Divorced woman (especially with a kid) as someone you wouldnt wanna date, you are a closed minded *******.

Or at least thats the basics of how its been explained to me... and, (uh oh, Im revealing secret personal info here) I've browsed enough dating websites to catch onto that same vibe, so I'll buy the truth in it.

GRANTED... its a generalization, and not EVERY woman feels that way... but... its what's been explained to me, and Lisa there confirmed it upthread...



			
				LISA said:
			
		

> And being divorced doesn't help, one woman didn't want you, so it plays against you.  Sad, but true



I was dating what I will consider prolly to my dying day one of the great loves of my life... and one of the main reasons we are not together is because her parents hated me... amongst the reasons, the fact I am divorced was pretty high up there.


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## Lisa (Mar 16, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Here is the double edged sword.
> 
> If you are a divorced guy, you are "damaged goods"... you must have done SOMTHING to be divoirced.
> 
> ...



Yes, it is a generalization.  I know a few really great guys that are divorced.  Some that I have been friends with longer then I have been with my husband.  I PERSONALLY wouldn't consider a divorced guy damaged goods, but I know they feel that women consider them to be that.  It is really sad.  My one good friend just fell in love with the wrong woman, who quickly fell out of love with him and they are divorced.  He is one of the most awesome men I know.  The divorced was by no means his fault but yet women treat him like his is plagued.


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## shesulsa (Mar 16, 2006)

Rich, I think that maybe people probably think you're such a great guy that you should be attached to some lucky girl ... because there's a lot of attached jerks ... and it would be so nice if one of the girls attached to those jerks could be attached to you .... :ladysman:

*been taking lessons from Dan - ask him about it*


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## Tarot (Mar 17, 2006)

As a woman, I personally would never consider a divorced guy damaged goods.  And I *really* hate when people just assume things about someone before getting to know them.  I can totally understand where you are coming from.  I'm married but do not want kids.  Ever.  I have taken steps to ensure this decision.  Because I'm a woman people assume I want to coo and fawn all over babies and when I don't then, (GASP!) there must be something wrong with me.  :shrug:


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## stickarts (Mar 17, 2006)

No matter who you are there will always be someone whose expectation that you don't meet. And that's ok! don't sweat it! :0)


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 17, 2006)

Truthfully I think you are only damaged goods if you start to feel that way or let your previous marriage and divorce affect how you do things with the next woman or man.

There is nothing wrong with being single and *happy* after all that is what life is all about! : )

It is to bad that our society however views people not married in a slightly negative way or in need of fixing as Rich pointed out. I do think this goes almost across the board around the world in different cultures. There is a heavy emphasis on being married and having children and maintaining your line and so on in all cultures.

Bottom line, enjoy life and enjoy the way you want to live your life. You only go around once! (or so they say)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## KenpoTess (Mar 17, 2006)

You mean to say Rich.. I didn't Break you with this?



Seriously,  People (in general populace of the civilized world) and I say that with bitten tongue, as I don't really think we're all that civilized-  personify the man - Head of house- Father figure- Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.. tis all BS granted,  and the only way it's going to change -is if each individual accepts themselves as they are.. and to hell with what people think.. 

Good heavens, you're not broken, there's nothing wrong with you,  except you're maybe listening to nonsense spewed by well-meaning, but ignorant people..

You're a good man Rich  and I'm proud to know you,  oh yeah, You too Techno ~!!

~Tess


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## Lisa (Mar 17, 2006)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> You mean to say Rich.. I didn't Break you with this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What she said, Rich.  Umm... I am happily married but I can say, ya don't look too bad  and I hope my earlier comments didn't discourage you.  Any woman with half a brain would NOT make that assumption about anyone until they got to know them.


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## MSUTKD (Mar 17, 2006)

Rich,
            I was divorced in my middle 30s and it has been 10 years.  It was hard and I had to learn many new things but keep your chin up.  It is not that women do not like damaged goods.  The real problem is that you might, at this point, believe you are damaged goods.  That is what women might perceive.  You have to do things now that are positive and work on yourself.  Fitness is definitely a great thing to do.  It helps you feel better and look better.  New hobbies can also spark you as well.  I picked up a guitar during that time and now I will never go back.  I used music as a positive bridge to improving myself.  It is hard but you can do it.  What you do not want is to cling onto anyone at this stage or you might end up in the same boat.  Stay strong, do positive things and improve yourself.  You are going to make it.

ron


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## Kreth (Mar 17, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Or at least thats the basics of how its been explained to me... and, (uh oh, Im revealing secret personal info here) I've browsed enough dating websites to catch onto that same vibe, so I'll buy the truth in it.


Just to clarify: ratemycameltoe.com does not really qualify as a "dating" site...


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## Makalakumu (Mar 17, 2006)

I have to say that this one of the most interesting threads I've seen in the Study for a long time.  Major props, Rich, for sharing something so personal!

I guess we are like black and white.  I'm married (only once and I found the right one).  I have two kids.  I have two pets.  I own my own house.  I have a career.  I'm in good shape.  I am happy...well most of the time, but anyone who says they are happy all of the time is lying... 

I never sought this life.  In fact, this is pretty far from what I imagined for myself in High School.  All I can say is that I just followed my heart and this is how things ended up.  Is all of this better then being 39, single (divorced), with no kids, and overweight?  I don't know?  I do know that all we can do is make the best with what we've got...and that is all I've ever tried to do.

With that being said, one thing I have to question is this...

"So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy."

Are you?  My intuition is really looking at the subsequent statements and wondering.  I get the impression that you are seeking something else.

I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I am being pointed.  Often I think that people are really dishonest with themselves.  Myself included.  This is why we need to struggle for the truth within us...and that is one of the most important fights that any of us will ever fight.

My point is this...people are incredibly sensitive creatures.  We observe things all of the time that we do not register.  I get gut feelings all of the time that turn me on or off to certain people and there is good evidence that shows that those feelings are based in reality.  For instance, sometimes we just know that certain people are fake, covetous, unhappy, and/or whatever.  I think the only way that we can discover if we are giving off these vibes is to examine ourselves carefully and be honest.

If you looked at your life and admitted that it isn't everything that you want, how would you go about changing it?


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## shesulsa (Mar 17, 2006)

I went back and reread my earlier post and it sounds almost unconcerned with your question, Rich, though there is likely some truth to it.

The sentiments I've read so far, I pretty much agree with.  You're not currently fitting into the "social norm"  for someone your age group and so what?  Have you spent much time around those people lately?  Guess what?  Not many of us are happy.

The kids thing - well, it's not too late to have some if you want them, there is also adoption, but there are A LOT of children out there who have no one to love them or who REALLY need a big brother type figure.  (or an uncle)

Rich you look good - you write sometimes that you look scary - not to me ... anyone else????

Hey, Rich - if you're happy and you can see where you're going and be at peace ... you are on the right track. What other people think just doesn't matter.


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## KenpoTess (Mar 17, 2006)

Methinks with the world as it is, the commercials blasted at us on all the media is pure Rubbish.  We are not allowed to be ourselves~!  We are not supposed to age- period.  I'm so sick of it- I feel awful for the coming up generations...

Freedom? Are we really experiencing it? Hell No.. Wear this and attract that, If you don't own this, you're not worthy of attention.  Make Money and be Powerful.. tis totally ludicrous- yet we are gluttons for it.  

We are born Alone- We die Alone- The Only One that can Cure the Problem is Ourselves.. Keep Yourself Happy- - No Other is responsible.
Accept You for You... and Do what makes Rich Smile..


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## stickarts (Mar 17, 2006)

awesome photo! LOL!

Perception is different with different generations too.
I have a friend who lives with a woman but has no intention of getting married. They are quite happy with this arrangement.
My parents and in-laws can't conceive of such a thing and keep asking if they are going to get married: like something is wrong with them! They don't quite get it that they are happy this way and there is nothing wrong with them!
Many of my friends and also the younger generation don't seem to have an issue about it.
I agree, How you perceive yourself will help with how others perceive you.


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## arnisador (Mar 17, 2006)

Lisa said:
			
		

> there has to be something wrong with you. You must have some sort of "weirdo" gene or something.


 
Wow, it's like she knows him! 

My wife thought Mr. Parsons was a nice guy and an interesting conversationalist, but she's married, so no luck there. As to looking scary, I've seen him looking scary and also seen him looking like a teddy bear. He's flexible. He doesn't really come across as overweight in person, just linebacker-y. Bottom line, I suspect it's a case of "always the best friend/big brother, never the boyfriend" for Mr. Parsons. He's too much of a nice guy, helpful person, and good listener for his own good.

I think we all know what it's like to not be part of a couple in a society that expects people to pair up. Everything is geared toward pairs. Who wants to dine alone in a restaurant? It's a social faux pas. Of course, when you're a couple you'll next start being pressed to have children. There's no winning.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Is there a root cause to this, in our biology?


 
Well, not if you're a creationist...but otherwise, it's evolution in action. It benefits your parents' genes to have you reproducing (thinking along the lines of Dawkins). People are not only apt to pair up but are wired to encourage their progeny to do the same, leading to a general pressure toward this. If you're not reproducing, you're not propagating your genes...leading to the suspicion that there's a reason! Of course, the trouble is that while getting married just to be able to have kids makes evolutionary sense, humans are social creatures and it doesn't make social sense.

You could always adopt? It worked for Angelina Jolie.


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## shesulsa (Mar 17, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> You could always adopt? It worked for Angelina Jolie.


So did screwing Brad Pitt ... uhh ... but I wouldn't recommend that for Rich. :lol2:


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## terryl965 (Mar 17, 2006)

Rich, remember you are a valuable assit to evryone involved in your life, those nieces and nephew along with your friends childern are lucky to have a man that will take the time to be with them. Not being Married all I can say you are still a lucky man, the devorce part I understand went through it once and that is all anybody should have to do is once.

You are not damage goods because of a divorce, 1 out of three have a divorce on there record so you are in the right group as far as I'm concern.
Just keep doing what your doing and one day everything will come together if you want it to be.
Terry


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## Carol (Mar 17, 2006)

Must be that same disease that inflicts me as well.

I'm 37, single (divorced).  I never had children.  I have a good career.   I'm not overweight, and am reasonably attractive and friendly.  

I don't know what the heck it is.  The idea of "damaged goods"...I don't really buy in to that.  My divorce was as smooth and issueless as such a thing could be.  

There is a lot going on in my life that is really good.  I have a great job doing what I love.   My training captivates me, even though I'm still in the "clumsy beginner" stage.   I'm not happy that I am alone...but I don't thing this is enough to make me seem like Ms. Gloom-and-Doom when I meet someone new.

:idunno:


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## Cryozombie (Mar 17, 2006)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Freedom? Are we really experiencing it? Hell No.. Wear this and attract that, If you don't own this, you're not worthy of attention. Make Money and be Powerful.. tis totally ludicrous- yet we are gluttons for it.


 
I knew there was a reason I made this:






A friend of mine introduced me to this girl one night, and we talked a little and she excused herself and went about her buisness... Later she told my friend that I don't wear enough abercrombie for her to date me.

So IMO there is a great deal of truth in what you say, Tess.


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## Flatlander (Mar 17, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> A friend of mine introduced me to this girl one night, and we talked a little and she excused herself and went about her buisness... Later she told my friend that I don't wear enough abercrombie for her to date me.


 You don't wear enough abercrombie to date me either....


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## shesulsa (Mar 17, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> You don't wear enough abercrombie to date me either....



Am I the only one who thinks Abercrombie for financial analyst geeks ? :ultracool

How much are ya lovin' me now, Dan, eh? _EH? *chortle, chortle, chortle*_


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## Kacey (Mar 17, 2006)

I'm 39, divorced, no kids, and overweight... I guess we're twins!  Except for that gender thing, that is.  

The thing is, I *am *happy - I have plenty of friends, I'm in graduate school, I teach TKD 2 nights a week, I have a very cuddly dog - I'm not sure I have time for anything else.  Would I like to meet someone I could have a committed relationship with?  Certainly!  But I'm not going to perseverate on it.

As far as the 'damaged goods' concern... well... at this point, I am more concerned about men who *haven't* been married, or at least in a long-term, committed relationship - because that's what I'm looking for, and if he hasn't managed some kind of commitment by now, then it's not likely to happen.  Divorce is proof that someone at least tried to commit (as long as it's not one of those 3-day celebrity marriages) - a man in his late 30s or older who has never been in a committed relationship is much more concerning to me than one who has been in a committed relationship that didn't work out.

You need to decide what you want, and what you're willing to do to get it.

Good luck to you!


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 17, 2006)

_Because if you don't have a wife, 2.3 childrens and 1.4 pets you are somehow weird and broken._

Is that a ratio?  I have 6 kids and 4 pets but only 1 wife...hmmm...something missing... : )


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Here is the double edged sword.
> 
> If you are a divorced guy, you are "damaged goods"... you must have done SOMTHING to be divoirced.
> 
> ...


 
I have some friends who are divorced with kids. They seem much easier to find women in general. Why  is this? They find Women with kids. 

I can find women with kids as well, but many consider me "Not to know what is going on with kids, because I have never had any of my own."


Then I also get those that bat their eyes, and say wow you make lots of money and have good benefits. This is nice, for people to consider, but please at least know my first name before you make such a comment.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

stickarts said:
			
		

> No matter who you are there will always be someone whose expectation that you don't meet. And that's ok! don't sweat it! :0)


 
While I agree with this. I just have to ask the question, when more then half the people I know give the same reaction or answers.

I am not one who gives in to peer pressure, and always enjoyed being different, so I ask to make sure I am not being just difficult.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Truthfully I think you are only damaged goods if you start to feel that way or let your previous marriage and divorce affect how you do things with the next woman or man.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being single and *happy* after all that is what life is all about! : )
> 
> ...


 
Well I have tried not to make the same mistakes, and the issues I have problems with, I have tried to recognize and deal with up front.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> You mean to say Rich.. I didn't Break you with this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Tess, no not broken, I was weaing my cup that day 

I do not think I am broken, I am just asking why so many people my age and older all look at me wierd like for being happy alone. For not having a women, and working on kids. I would like them, but with the right person. 

Thanks


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

Lisa said:
			
		

> What she said, Rich. Umm... I am happily married but I can say, ya don't look too bad  and I hope my earlier comments didn't discourage you. Any woman with half a brain would NOT make that assumption about anyone until they got to know them.


 
No I did not take anything you or others have said badly or wrong.

Thanks for the input.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> Rich,
> I was divorced in my middle 30s and it has been 10 years. It was hard and I had to learn many new things but keep your chin up. It is not that women do not like damaged goods. The real problem is that you might, at this point, believe you are damaged goods. That is what women might perceive. You have to do things now that are positive and work on yourself. Fitness is definitely a great thing to do. It helps you feel better and look better. New hobbies can also spark you as well. I picked up a guitar during that time and now I will never go back. I used music as a positive bridge to improving myself. It is hard but you can do it. What you do not want is to cling onto anyone at this stage or you might end up in the same boat. Stay strong, do positive things and improve yourself. You are going to make it.
> 
> ron


 

I am not broken, I am just really curious as to why our culture thinks that people like me are broken or wrong.

I am happy, and still looking but not crying for not having without.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I went back and reread my earlier post and it sounds almost unconcerned with your question, Rich, though there is likely some truth to it.
> 
> The sentiments I've read so far, I pretty much agree with. You're not currently fitting into the "social norm" for someone your age group and so what? Have you spent much time around those people lately? Guess what? Not many of us are happy.
> 
> ...


 
Georgia,

I have women scream from freight when they did not know I was there. I have had little girls start to cry when I smile and say hi to them. 

Yet I would have to say not all, and that is mostly just me having fun, as I do not think I look great. 

For Big Brothers, in my local area, I do not pass the background check. Safety for the children is number one, so for me to get involved, they do nto allow males who are not married. This is for the county I live in. I have not checked others. 

As to adoption I have not looked into it as I felt it would be even more difficult as I could not be a big brother.

But I do adopt my friends kids, and buy them stuff for b-days and holidays, and take them out for dinners or ice cream. So I am good there for now.


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## still learning (Mar 17, 2006)

Hello, Life is what you want to make it? It is all about having positive mind and attitude. 

My Instructor told me when he was in College he went on a mission to a third world country. When you live among them...and come back to America, you see how wonderful our country is! 

Clean running water, places to get food,toilets and toilet paper. Police and fire departments,hospitals, good doctors and medical help. Laws that work. Jobs. and so on...life here is 1000 times better!

Be glad of what you have, except the losses...move on and up in your life...thinking of the past...will bring sadness....look to the future and see yourself in a better life. 

Many people tell me they wish they married their second wife first! LIfe can be better than the old? .........take care and simile....think positive!!!!. ..............Aloha


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

First let me vent for a second. I really hate dial up AOL. It is the only thing I can get access to right now and it keeps dropping me. The piece of crap.

The laptop works just fine, at my parents place back in Michigan with Comcast cable so I know it is not the system.

Second attempt at a long reply back.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I have to say that this one of the most interesting threads I've seen in the Study for a long time. Major props, Rich, for sharing something so personal!


 
I was hoping it would take the turn on to our society and not just what is about me. 



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I guess we are like black and white. I'm married (only once and I found the right one). I have two kids. I have two pets. I own my own house. I have a career. I'm in good shape. I am happy...well most of the time, but anyone who says they are happy all of the time is lying...


 
I have all the same things but a wife and kids, and I am very happy, most days, and the other days are usually understandable. i.e. people in hospitals, people loosing jobs, etcetera.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I never sought this life. In fact, this is pretty far from what I imagined for myself in High School. All I can say is that I just followed my heart and this is how things ended up. Is all of this better then being 39, single (divorced), with no kids, and overweight? I don't know? I do know that all we can do is make the best with what we've got...and that is all I've ever tried to do.


 
I never sought my own either other than to go out and go to college which has lead to certain things as well.

I brought up the over wieght item to let you know I am not perfect, and do not expect others to be either, but that I also am always trying to improve. 




			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> With that being said, one thing I have to question is this...
> 
> "So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy."
> 
> Are you? My intuition is really looking at the subsequent statements and wondering. I get the impression that you are seeking something else.


 
I am happy. I am so happy, it is really scary to me. I have problems with some people relationships and how bad it is or how both are nto really happy. I am not able to stay like that anymore, so I move on. 

I am always seeking to learn more and grow more.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I am being pointed. Often I think that people are really dishonest with themselves. Myself included. This is why we need to struggle for the truth within us...and that is one of the most important fights that any of us will ever fight.


 
See previous post about checking to make sure I am not just being different to be different.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> My point is this...people are incredibly sensitive creatures. We observe things all of the time that we do not register. I get gut feelings all of the time that turn me on or off to certain people and there is good evidence that shows that those feelings are based in reality. For instance, sometimes we just know that certain people are fake, covetous, unhappy, and/or whatever. I think the only way that we can discover if we are giving off these vibes is to examine ourselves carefully and be honest.


 
I have learned from my experiences, marriage being only one of them. I try not to repeat my mistakes. 

I have seen some women not very happy early on into a first date. I aske them about it, and they seemed like it was a relief to them to be able to talk about how it is not good, and that they did nto want to hurt my feelings. I smile, and tell them that just because I am not right for them does not mean I am wrong or a bad person. Just that I am not right for them. I have even gotten a friendship out of one of these.



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> If you looked at your life and admitted that it isn't everything that you want, how would you go about changing it?


 
I would possible change my job based upon recent corporate changes. But this is not immediate and I would have to weigh all factors. I am also looking into having the current company pay for a MS degree that is not 100% related to work, it is only about 20% at best, compared to some others. Yet it would be for me. 

I have been looking but not actively seeking women. If it happens, cool if not there is always next week.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Methinks with the world as it is, the commercials blasted at us on all the media is pure Rubbish. We are not allowed to be ourselves~! We are not supposed to age- period. I'm so sick of it- I feel awful for the coming up generations...
> 
> Freedom? Are we really experiencing it? Hell No.. Wear this and attract that, If you don't own this, you're not worthy of attention. Make Money and be Powerful.. tis totally ludicrous- yet we are gluttons for it.
> 
> ...


 
Tess, I agree. This is why I asked the question about society. And on most days I do what makes me smile. Sommetimes toys are involved that cost money, other times it is travel and or training, or helping out friends or family. 

Thanks


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Wow, it's like she knows him!


 
See you can get to know someone over the internet  



			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> My wife thought Mr. Parsons was a nice guy and an interesting conversationalist, but she's married, so no luck there. As to looking scary, I've seen him looking scary and also seen him looking like a teddy bear. He's flexible. He doesn't really come across as overweight in person, just linebacker-y. Bottom line, I suspect it's a case of "always the best friend/big brother, never the boyfriend" for Mr. Parsons. He's too much of a nice guy, helpful person, and good listener for his own good.


 
All true, but not sure if I would change, as I enjoy it most of the time. 



			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> I think we all know what it's like to not be part of a couple in a society that expects people to pair up. Everything is geared toward pairs. Who wants to dine alone in a restaurant? It's a social faux pas. Of course, when you're a couple you'll next start being pressed to have children. There's no winning.


 
I was traveling alone recently and in Friendly Canada, and even there people would be surprised when I would say Table for one. 

It is a stigma in our culture to eat alone, which is why I think fast food is so popular, for people can eat in their cars, or take it back home.



			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> Well, not if you're a creationist...but otherwise, it's evolution in action. It benefits your parents' genes to have you reproducing (thinking along the lines of Dawkins). People are not only apt to pair up but are wired to encourage their progeny to do the same, leading to a general pressure toward this. If you're not reproducing, you're not propagating your genes...leading to the suspicion that there's a reason! Of course, the trouble is that while getting married just to be able to have kids makes evolutionary sense, humans are social creatures and it doesn't make social sense.


 
I agree, if our culture and level of Civilization was at a point where the villiage or tribe would not survive without me producing young with someone, I believe it would have happened already. Yet, I might have also been the lone medicine man with no family. 

I understand the genetic drive to reproduce arguement, I also agree that we are social creatures and also to a population level where it not a requirement. 



			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> You could always adopt? It worked for Angelina Jolie.


 
Can anyone name a single male who adopted a child? Curious it is always women who are able to this.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> So did screwing Brad Pitt ... uhh ... but I wouldn't recommend that for Rich. :lol2:


 

He is not my type


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Rich, remember you are a valuable assit to evryone involved in your life, those nieces and nephew along with your friends childern are lucky to have a man that will take the time to be with them. Not being Married all I can say you are still a lucky man, the devorce part I understand went through it once and that is all anybody should have to do is once.


 
I know I am. One of my adopted nieces, told me I was the only uncle she had who would play catch with her, and or always showed up for her birthday. She also told me I listened more than her mother, and she appreciated that. 



			
				terryl965 said:
			
		

> You are not damage goods because of a divorce, 1 out of three have a divorce on there record so you are in the right group as far as I'm concern.


 
I know I am not damaged goods, just curious as to societies look at this. 



			
				terryl965 said:
			
		

> Just keep doing what your doing and one day everything will come together if you want it to be.
> Terry


 
I do what I do, and enjoy my life. If it is very unpleasant for me, then I figure out a way to change it.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 17, 2006)

Was unhappily married, been divorced.

Was happily divorced, been remarried (these are years apart by the way >10)

Am happily married.

If your happy and you know it..........who cares what anyone else thinks.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> Must be that same disease that inflicts me as well.
> 
> I'm 37, single (divorced). I never had children. I have a good career. I'm not overweight, and am reasonably attractive and friendly.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, I am just curious about a social discussion on why it seems that people think a certain way.

Someone mentioned generations and I agree that has a lot to do with it.

Yet, I am happy, but different, and was curious so I asked.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I knew there was a reason I made this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hey I meet her sister, and cousin, and her friends. 

** Note not all women are bad.  Just some.  Just Like guys.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Hello, Life is what you want to make it? It is all about having positive mind and attitude.


 
I msotly do, just asking about something that crossed my mind, when wonderinng why lots of people were asking or doing similiar things to me.



			
				still learning said:
			
		

> My Instructor told me when he was in College he went on a mission to a third world country. When you live among them...and come back to America, you see how wonderful our country is!


 
I have seen enough of the rest of the world to know what I have here, and enjoy it. The priviledge and capabilities I have are great, and I recognize that. 



			
				still learning said:
			
		

> Clean running water, places to get food,toilets and toilet paper. Police and fire departments,hospitals, good doctors and medical help. Laws that work. Jobs. and so on...life here is 1000 times better!


 
For some countries this is true. Other countries out there offer a lot of what is here, only with a different twist as is expected for different cultures. 



			
				still learning said:
			
		

> Be glad of what you have, except the losses...move on and up in your life...thinking of the past...will bring sadness....look to the future and see yourself in a better life.


 
Yep I know. 



			
				still learning said:
			
		

> Many people tell me they wish they married their second wife first! LIfe can be better than the old? .........take care and simile....think positive!!!!. ..............Aloha


 
You never have a second wife until you have a first.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 17, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Was unhappily married, been divorced.
> 
> Was happily divorced, been remarried (these are years apart by the way >10)
> 
> ...


 
** Clap **

If you are happy and you know clap your hands.

** Clap **
** Clap **

 :lol:


----------



## Sarah (Mar 17, 2006)

I just wanted to address this idea of damaged goods real quick.  I think as you get a bit older and have had more experiences, be it bad or good, under your belt you can grow a bit cynical/bitter.  (of course I don&#8217;t know you well enough to apply this to you).

From my somewhat limited life experience I believe how you view your past relationships can have a lot of effect on your current situations&#8230;if you hate or are angry about the past you will be putting that energy out there and as someone stated earlier, people are VERY sensitive.

This IMHO is where the concept of &#8216;damaged goods&#8217; come from, its from those guys (or girls) that have been &#8216;burnt&#8217; in the past and therefore are unwilling to put there heart on the line in case they get hurt again, they keep up that wall around them and are just waiting for you to let them down so they, can once again be assured that they are just unlucky in love.  It&#8217;s a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy really.

Ill tell ya what, if you don&#8217;t put your heart on the line and &#8216;risk&#8217; have the same as last time happen, you prolly wont be hurt again, but you prolly wont meet the love of your life either..

I like ya Rich, I think your all the fantastic things everyone here has been saying&#8230;maybe you just need to believe in yourself a little more and you will attract a lovely lady


----------



## Drac (Mar 18, 2006)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Because if you don't have a wife, 2.3 childrens and 1.4 pets you are somehow weird and broken


 
I was weird and broken for years and PROUD of it..If I wasn't afraid of angering the the MODs I would tell you what I use to tell them but most of it is unprintable...


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 18, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> ** Clap **
> 
> If you are happy and you know clap your hands.
> 
> ...


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 18, 2006)

> So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy.


Brother Rich, I haven't been around in a while but I want to respond to your post.

Rich, be happy with yourself and who you are, what you've accomplished in the past and what you strive for in the future. Take notice to those who have achieved your accomplishments in life. Probably not many. I too noticed that when I was single if you mentioned divorce most women ran away like the plague. So what if you're a little over weight. Any woman with real death will look past that issue. Only the superficial look for vanity and those you really don't want anyways  'cause then you might be in a worse situation:asian: . 



> What's wrong with the above


Brother, as soon as you figure women out let me know. Please share the secrets  .



> I am trying to loose more weight and maintain my percent body fat to below 23% and get it below 20%.


You know as well as I do that really isn't much. As I said be happy with who you are a woman will be along eventually. It probably seems like an eternity but I'm sure the right one will come.



> I train in martial arts, and, work in a career.


It was enjoyable for me to go to the studio over the years. It was a way for me to forget the outside world and focus on the students and myself. If only for a couple of hours. You are a successful man with a good job, just don't let the wrong one come in.  



> Yes, I was married, it did not work, and yes there is baggage or scars, but I think I am over most of it. (* Twitch *)


Marriage is certainly not all it's cracked up to be. It's hard work and takes a lot of patience. Believe me I'm reminded everyday about this. Actually again before I got on MT. My advice to you is date around to find the woman you are looking for. If the one your with isn't the one, move on. 



> I do miss not having children, and spoil my nieces, and nephews, and my friends kids, that also call me Uncle.


Well, there may be a reason why it didn't work out that way yet. I'm a firm believer in everything happens for a reason. Maybe at this moment it was not meant to be but you never know what the future has in store. All 4 of mine are over here wrecking the place and causing havoc. Keep your chin up Bro.



> Why must I have a wife and kids to have anything? Yes they would have been great. I had a misstep and took cautions to not repeat, and just not found the right one yet.


I don't necessarily believe that. Re-read some of my previous paragraphs. 



> Just curious as to why the Amercian Society in general (* others can chime in with their societies point of view, as I would like to hear it as well *), thinks that something is wrong, and poor me?


I don't believe there's anything wrong with you. 



> Is there something our society, trains its members without thinking about it? Did I miss that lesson?


If there's a lesson to be had and you find it let me know. Usually I found in my life if there's a hard way; that's the path I take. You would think eventually one would learn a lesson but nooooooooo. 



> Thank you for your replies.


To be honest Rich, with all joking aside. If I didn't marry Heather I think I would have preferred to stay single. Although my situation was a little different with 2 kids already but for me juggling 2 kids, an ex-wife, current wife, work and training someone is usually getting the shaft. There isn't enough time in the day for everyone. Which is why I say stay happy with yourself, your training, your friends and family. If you ever want to talk give me a ring. If you don't still have my number I'll PM my home and/or work numbers. 
Take care. Good things come to those who wait.
Jason
:asian:


----------



## Brother John (Mar 18, 2006)

_Rich-_
Why worry bro?  
Seems you're pretty concerned about this.... somethin happen to make you worry like this???​ 
IF you are happy being single....*COOL*. Keep on keepin on. 
IF some woman rejects you because you're divorced ---then in my opinion she's pretty shallow, narrow-minded and petty; you could do better.  ((*in all fairness: I think that lots of women have been burned by some pretty crappy guys...and so they may take flight at the first sign of anything amiss.. like a divorcee. In my experience, the MOST sensitive to a guy being divorced...is a woman who's been divorced*.)) IF that's the "General" sentiment of ladies in our society (too bad, really) then hold out for a lady that's not "general", not average!  _*{*since when can an "average" woman deal with a relationship with a committed martial artist anyway??*}*_ Sounds like you deserve someone who's open-minded and doesn't judge on surface impressions alone. 

SO brother....hold your head up high, be YOU.... and shrug off those who can't accept Rich for Rich!!! ....baggage and all. (because we've all got some)

I'm rootin for ya!

*Your Brother* _(34, bald...divorced..........REMARIED to the most WONDERFUL woman you could ever imagine; and_ *happy as can be!!!!* _)_
*John*


----------



## Flatlander (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't think Rich is concerned about his own circumstances in any way. I do, however, believe that he's curious as to why society perceives that he should be unhappy with his situation when in fact, he's perfectly content.

And Rich, maybe if you stop growling at women, they'll stop screaming. :ultracool


----------



## shesulsa (Mar 18, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> And Rich, maybe if you stop growling at women, they'll stop screaming.



:anic:  .... yeah ....   :anic:


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 18, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I don't think Rich is concerned about his own circumstances in any way. I do, however, believe that he's curious as to why society perceives that he should be unhappy with his situation when in fact, he's perfectly content.
> 
> And Rich, maybe if you stop growling at women, they'll stop screaming. :ultracool


 
True, very True.

As I know others in this type of situation.

As to me, I have been getting this type of behavior for many years. Not with just myself. Yes, I am visiting the parents, and they no longer bring this up, but all their friends do.

When I am at work, there are those that are married and those that are not. Those that are not, many people can look and say total introvert, unable to talk to women, etcetera.

Personally, I think I am happy, and have dealt with the past as best I can. I do not hate the ex-wife at all. I do not see her, and that helped to make it easier. Hating someone like her is too costly and too much of my time would be wasted on such a non-productive emotion. 

So, does age and society station or culture effect how people ast?

Or is it more across the society of the USA completely, or is it just certainn areas, and locations, or age brackets?


----------



## Carol (Mar 19, 2006)

Rich, 

Maybe it's because you have people around you that care about you in one way or another.  They know that you are happy, but they think that you would be happier with someone beside you.

As far as the secret to meeting great people, I haven't figured that one out yet.  Perhaps one's career gives one the opportunity to be a little more selective.  That selectivity can be a double-edge sword.  It may mean turning down a potentially bad date, it could also mean getting to know a person more to see if they are better than the initial first impression.  A good friend of mine that is single says that there are "a lot of frogs out there."

Hmm....date a frog....go to training....date a frog....go to training....I know!   I'm going to Kenpo tonight!  

I don't know, I'm finding that I've been rejected a lot more now than I have been when I was younger.  What has changed?  My looks haven't changed that significantly.  I'm a more successful than I was.  Wonder if it's "everybody else"?


----------



## Sarah (Mar 19, 2006)

Why dont you and Rich exchange MSN addresses.....it worked for me and OUMoose  :wink2:


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 19, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> Why dont you and Rich exchange MSN addresses.....it worked for me and OUMoose :wink2:


 
Because I use ICQ


----------



## Sarah (Mar 19, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Because I use ICQ


 
Excuses, excuses......


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 19, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> Excuses, excuses......


 
And so . . .


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 19, 2006)

Ok there have been a few light hits through this thread, but no takers on the following:

Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?

With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.

So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?

And who is to say that they were the right genes?

Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?


----------



## Jonathan Randall (Mar 19, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Ok there have been a few light hits through this thread, but no takers on the following:
> 
> Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?


 
Certainly religion has effected expectations of those around us to a large degree. Catholics and others have _always _had higher fertility rates. This is one reason why the Protestant Reformation in Europe is being undone by demographics - Catholics are starting to outnumber Protestants in traditional Protestant countries.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.
> 
> So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?
> 
> More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?


 
Genetic failure? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Has some invention or innovation of yours (general yours, not necessarily YOU specifically) contributed to the advancement and survivability of mankind? Also, reproduction alone, while necessary, is not a sole criteria for success or roaches and flies would be superior lifeforms.

Good questions.


----------



## Carol (Mar 19, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?


 
Does it affect expectations?  Probably.  However, religions have been around for centuries.  They are nothing new.   There are certainly those that have certain expectations of other people's behaviour that are not sourced in faith.



> With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


 
No, IMO.  I believe that religious freedom means that one is free to follow their own path, and that religious freedom means that it's wrong to persecute someone because their path is different. 



> So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?
> 
> And who is to say that they were the right genes?
> 
> Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


 
I don't have the heart to ask some adopted children if they think their parents are genetic failures.  Methinks they would say no.

One of my best friends doesn't have children, and likely won't.  She is a smart woman, but her career has had its ups and downs.  Yet, she always has a listening ear.  She and her husband have reached out to me when I have stumbled, and they have always been there to cheer with me when things go well.

Are they genetic failures?  I don't think so.  On the contrary, I don't know what I would do without their friendship and support.  I can't imagine life without them.


----------



## Kreth (Mar 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?


Absolutely, just look at the recent uproar over gay marriage. 



> With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


Absolutely not, that's when religious freedom begins to morph into religious persecution.




> So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?


I think our species is well beyond the point that it is urgent to reproduce.



> Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


I'm highly in favor of research into selectively eliminating what I like to call the "here's your sign" gene.


----------



## evenflow1121 (Mar 20, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Im in the same boat man. Only younger.
> 
> And its true, women dont want divorced men, we are damaged goods.
> ​


I wouldnt necessarily say so there is only one girl I ever dated, ( I ve never been married), but that said she would never date a divorced man, it so turned out she was a gold digger, so you are better off that anyway.  Most people are just looking for a good person to settle down with, whether or not you were married would not be an issue to most, it wouldnt be an issue to me if I met the girl of my dreams tomorrow and she had been married before.  Hang in there dude.


----------



## evenflow1121 (Mar 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, over weight, and happy.
> 
> What is wrong with the above?
> 
> ...


 
Ya know this is a very good post, I never thought of it like that, but its almost embedded into our society that you should be married and with kids by a certain age, then you wonder the rate of divorce there is in this country.  By the time you hit 30 something it almost becomes a race to the altar and that is where the problems start.  I think you hit the nail in the head, now obviously there is a side of us that wants to find that special someone, but society puts it in a way where if you havent found him/her by a certain age something is wrong with you.  

As for me, I am not 39 yet, I ll be 30 in the next two years, but I am taking it day by day man.  I ve made enough mistakes in life to know what the hell I want in a woman, and what the hell to stay away from, and I d rather be myself all of my life than deal with some of the girl friends I ve had all over again.  Deviating a bit from the topic, I will tell you this, the best relationships I ve ever had, though they obviously did not work out, but we are still friends, were spontaneous, in other words, they just happened.  Whether I met them at work , or in the library or wherever, I found we had more in common than the ones I was I met at bars and what not.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 20, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Certainly religion has effected expectations of those around us to a large degree. Catholics and others have _always _had higher fertility rates. This is one reason why the Protestant Reformation in Europe is being undone by demographics - Catholics are starting to outnumber Protestants in traditional Protestant countries.


 
Thanks for the replies.



			
				Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Genetic failure? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Has some invention or innovation of yours (general yours, not necessarily YOU specifically) contributed to the advancement and survivability of mankind? Also, reproduction alone, while necessary, is not a sole criteria for success or roaches and flies would be superior lifeforms.
> 
> Good questions.


 
Well to answer your questions, I have some ROI's under review for Patents. I have a defensive publication, and a Patent issued, just no recognition yet. 

I also have software running around in military land vehicles. M1A2 Tanks and others.

Also Pick a GM Vehicle from 96 on and I will let you know how I influenced the vehicle and for the few that were not, I will openly let you know.  (* Maybe another thread *)


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 20, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> I don't have the heart to ask some adopted children if they think their parents are genetic failures. Methinks they would say no.


 
I happen to agree. Yet, I am open to listen to other point of views to get a different perspective. 

I have been approached by two different female same sex partners, to provide genetic material for them to have a child. I declined, because of person issues, in that I would want to be involved with the child, and not just walk away. Both couples found other donars, and life went on.





			
				lady_kaur said:
			
		

> One of my best friends doesn't have children, and likely won't. She is a smart woman, but her career has had its ups and downs. Yet, she always has a listening ear. She and her husband have reached out to me when I have stumbled, and they have always been there to cheer with me when things go well.


 
Yes, this is true, there are those that support others, and are happy with this.



			
				lady_kaur said:
			
		

> Are they genetic failures? I don't think so. On the contrary, I don't know what I would do without their friendship and support. I can't imagine life without them.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 20, 2006)

How about a look at a recent past book. Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. 

Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little. 

So, from the female perspective, that is trying to get me married with kids, is this a look into their sympathy, of just trying to be social, and there is nothing really behind what they are saying. Or, are these women serious about me needing or requiring a women and children to be complete.


There are men also who say the same, yet it does not fit this already established and published philosphy on human interactions.

So, no disrespect meant.

Thank you


----------



## Kacey (Mar 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Has Religion and it's take on Family effected expectations of others around us?


Of course it has.  An e-mail I received recently highlights this well:

"On Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, in Annapolis at a hearing on the proposed Constitutional Amendment to prohibit gay marriage, Jamie Raskin, professor of law at AU, was requested to testify.

At the end of his testimony, Republican Senator Nancy Jacobs said: "Mr. Raskin, my Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman. What do you have to say about that?"

Raskin replied: "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

The room erupted into applause."


			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


No, I don't think it is. It is okay to expect others to allow you to behave as your religion dictates, within legal strictures - but if I expect others to behave as I do, then there is no freedom.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.


True... but young adult male lions leave the pride in search of mates. The thing is, not all of them find one (or more). On the other hand, people are not lions.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?


No, I don't think so - because I can still influence how others pass on (or don't pass on) their genes. As a teacher (middle school special education), I feel that I am having a (hopefully positive) effect on the world, without passing on my particular geneset.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> And who is to say that they were the right genes?


A very good question. Survival of the fittest has disappeared with modern medicine, and has been further diluted by society's selection of traits that were not survival traits until very recently - for example, all other things being equal, a disabled child who has the fortune to be born into a wealthy family will be much better off than a disabled child who is born into a poor family - this child will, likely receive better care, and receive it sooner, thus improving his/her chances of surviving long enough to reproduce, for reasons that, until very recently, were irrelevant, because it is the abilities of the parent, not the child, that allow this.



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


No. How would you choose what to engineer? What to throw out? What about recessive genes that, individually, have a positive effect, but in combination are dangerous (e.g. a single gene for sickle-cell anemia protects against malaria - but having both can kill you)?



			
				Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> More to come, yet what are your thoughts on these?


----------



## Sarah (Mar 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little.
> 
> So, from the female perspective, that is trying to get me married with kids, is this a look into their sympathy, of just trying to be social, and there is nothing really behind what they are saying. Or, are these women serious about me needing or requiring a women and children to be complete.


 
You will also see in that book a section on how 'woman want to change men', it explains that woman do tend to give advise etc and try to improve there partner, its not that they want to change the person they are, they would just like to see them be the best they can be.

This may be what your friend are doing! as someone said earlier, maybe they understand you are ok with being single but think you would be even MORE happy with a partner...trying to encourage you to be the best you can in a way.


----------



## Carol (Mar 20, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> How about a look at a recent past book. Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus.
> 
> Men are supposed to want to be alone in their caves to think and deal with issues, while women like to have a sympathetic listener, will do just that, Listen. Not give solutions to answers, or try to solve anything, just listen and empathize a little.
> 
> ...


 
I'd be very curious to see what some other folks think of this because this is a pet peeve of mine.

I think "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" and the like can show insight in to patterns of behavior and certain types of people.   

There are studies that suggest that women think differently then men, and that is likely why there are less women in engineering and the sciences.  That may be true.

But what is printed as insights, and ideas...becomes a crutch.  A substitute for getting to know an individual for who he or she is.   It's much easier to impose a stereotype on another person than it is to actually take the time to get to know them.

There is a difference between an idea and an infliction.  Inflictions hurt.


----------



## Cryozombie (Mar 20, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> But what is printed as insights, and ideas...becomes a crutch.  A substitute for getting to know an individual for who he or she is.   It's much easier to impose a stereotype on another person than it is to actually take the time to get to know them.
> 
> There is a difference between an idea and an infliction.  Inflictions hurt.



Personally I think [SIZE=-1]Men are from Omicron Persei 9, Women are from Omicron Persei 7. 

But seriously, Id buy what you are sayin.  Its very easy to latch onto those kinds of ideas and just take them at face value, and not get to know a person.
[/SIZE]


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## Simon Curran (Mar 21, 2006)

I think this is a very interesting topic, and one pertinent also to me just now,
My girlfriend and I have been together for a number of years now (7 to be precise) and obviously neither of us is getting younger.
I recently celebrated my 30th birthday, by taking a dream trip to California, partially because it is something I've always wanted to do, and partially because here in Denmark there is a ridiculous tradition for punishing those who are unmarried by the time they hit 30 by dousing them in pepper, and erecting a monstrosity of a pepper mill outside their residence (usually made from several oil drums filled with concrete, imagine the logistics involved in getting rid of the junk...)
So I'm 30, unamrried but not single (never married) no kids in good shape and happy
I beleive it is a socialogical issue, not a biological one, as has already been stated, the human race is not on the edge of extinction just yet, so my decision to not procreate isn't going to affect the world population as it stands at the moment (somewhere around 6 Billion isn't it?)
That being said however, society has begun to affect my relationship with it's "norms" and expectations, the other night my girlfriend and I got into a rather heated discussion as to why we are not married (brought on by a buddy of mine who is in the middle of a divorce...) and when we boiled it down, it turns out that she is angry at me for not being in a rush to marry her and knock out some young 'uns because that is what people expect of us...
Should we really allow others to dictate to us how we should live our lives?
I personally am of the opinion that my life is mine to do with as I see fit, and I choose to spend my time enjoying _my_ life, not going out of my way to propagate my _"superior"_ genes
The fact that I am not married to my girlfiend does not change the way I feel about her, it just means we have the freedom to spend our money on other things than a symbolic band of gold
(Done ranting now...)
In response to one of your questions, I don't think religion is solely responsible, but it does bear some of the burden


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## Tarot (Mar 21, 2006)

Simon Curran said:
			
		

> I think this is a very interesting topic, and one pertinent also to me just now,
> My girlfriend and I have been together for a number of years now (7 to be precise) and obviously neither of us is getting younger.
> I recently celebrated my 30th birthday, by taking a dream trip to California, partially because it is something I've always wanted to do, and partially because here in Denmark there is a ridiculous tradition for punishing those who are unmarried by the time they hit 30 by dousing them in pepper, and erecting a monstrosity of a pepper mill outside their residence (usually made from several oil drums filled with concrete, imagine the logistics involved in getting rid of the junk...)
> So I'm 30, unamrried but not single (never married) no kids in good shape and happy
> ...



Wow.  I can really relate to what you are saying.  My husband and I just got married last year after being together for about 8 years.  We were totally happy with each and not being married.  We got married for lots of reasons none of which are related to why society thinks couples should get married.  We had a nice little ceremony with just the two of us, because the idea of a big wedding seems silly to us.  We have nice little silver wedding bands that were not astronomical in price.  I have no engagement ring because I have no need for one.  I did not change my name.  We have been questioned a lot about our "actions" and our relationship merely because its the opposite of what people are used to, so naturally we must be "weird" or "odd".  :shrug:  Not really, we are just us.  That's what it comes down to.




> With religious freedom is it ok to expect others to behave as you do?


I honestly don't think the states has true "freedom of religion", so I can't answer the question in that respect.  Do I expect others to behave as I do?  Only in terms of manners and common sense however I'm having a very hard time finding others who act with those abilities. 



> As with the Young Adult Male Lion that leaves and is forced to fight for his own pride, there are always some that are alone.


Going off of this, one thing I have noticed is that society seems to think one must have a lot of friends!  And go out and do things!  Often!  When in reality a lot of people are OK with their own little worlds. 



> So, if you to not reproduce are you a genetic failure becuase you did not pass on your genes?
> 
> And who is to say that they were the right genes?
> 
> Does this mean we should look into genetic engineering only?


Since I do not want kids (ever), I do not think that makes me a genetic failure.  Having kids is a choice.  You either want them or you don't.  Like others have mentioned, the world is severly over populated, I do not think my genes are soooo fantastic that they need passed on.

I have no opinion on genetic engineering as I've never thought about it before.  Give me some time to look into it and I'll get back to you.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 21, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> I'd be very curious to see what some other folks think of this because this is a pet peeve of mine.
> 
> I think "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" and the like can show insight in to patterns of behavior and certain types of people.
> 
> ...


 
I read the book for defense. I was dating a lot when it came out. I kept hearing some catch phrases, so I did some research and then could talk the lingo, and then either get by the issue or move on to the next date in the future. 

I have seen women, older, my age and younger, who *"NEED"* to talk. They walk into a room and talk about how hot it is while you are obviously occupied. So, you say ok let us turn on the air conditioner which would make it not so hot. This is not what they are looking for. They need to talk. So they are looking for an opening to get a conversation going. So they can talk with someone, and not be corrected or fixed, but just to empathize and or sympathize with each other.

So women talk all the time, and some people call them pushy or obnoxious or even "Bitchy". Yet these women seem to not get along with other women who also talk all the time as they do not allow for someone else to get in a word edgewise. 

While one father of a young women I dated years ago, brings to mind the other side, of where we could sit in the same room, or even be on the golf course and say very little if anything, and both of us were content.

No realize these are observations that support a printed opinion, there are obviously counter examples as well. 


So, if some women are just talking to talk, as they are family oriented, and wish you were or had the same experience to refer to in a conversation, then one could say this is partly our culture, mized in with some well wishing and misunderstanding. 

Yet, if the culture has expectations or people (* reference the late 19th and even early 20th century term Old Maid, *) use terms that portray expectations, even with out wanting to cause harm, they still can or do.

So, the first thing a cave dweller would say is chin, up and suck in the gut and take it like a man and move on. While others would say you can never please everyone, so why try.

Yet my concern is that this could be just like terms of description for annd about race. Terms that were acceptable previously, may not be acceptable now or in the future.

So are the unmarried, or even single parents, a new demographic for us to be PC with?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 21, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> You will also see in that book a section on how 'woman want to change men', it explains that woman do tend to give advise etc and try to improve there partner, its not that they want to change the person they are, they would just like to see them be the best they can be.
> 
> This may be what your friend are doing! as someone said earlier, maybe they understand you are ok with being single but think you would be even MORE happy with a partner...trying to encourage you to be the best you can in a way.


 
Sarah please bare with me. 

So, it is ok for women to want and to try to change those they are with, but it not ok for men to try to fix the problems that they are presented with?

Leading question, thanks for the opening.


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## Sarah (Mar 21, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Sarah please bare with me.
> 
> So, it is ok for women to want and to try to change those they are with, but it not ok for men to try to fix the problems that they are presented with?
> 
> Leading question, thanks for the opening.


 
It has never been said that it is not ok that men wants to fix things, that is your natural reaction when someone comes to you with a problem.  The difference is that a lot of the time woman just want to vent, to talk through a problem so as to solve it them selves, when a man lets a woman talk about a bad day and empathise with her, she feels valued. Also I know I like it when my boyfriend gives me advice (when its wanted), its the unsolicited advice that woman dont like.

I read a really good book called Personality Plus, which gave a really cool tip.  When a woman (or anyone for that matter) just feels like venting tell your partner its a poor baby story! what you are doing is saying "let me tell you about the terrible day I have had, when I have finished say "poor Baby, you must be shattered after the day you have just had" (or something to that effect).

Books like Men are from Mars are just about helping us to understand the different ways we think to enable us to ask for what we need without denying who we are.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 21, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> It has never been said that it is not ok that men wants to fix things, that is your natural reaction when someone comes to you with a problem. The difference is that a lot of the time woman just want to vent, to talk through a problem so as to solve it them selves, when a man lets a woman talk about a bad day and empathise with her, she feels valued. Also I know I like it when my boyfriend gives me advice (when its wanted), its the unsolicited advice that woman dont like.
> 
> I read a really good book called Personality Plus, which gave a really cool tip. When a woman (or anyone for that matter) just feels like venting tell your partner its a poor baby story! what you are doing is saying "let me tell you about the terrible day I have had, when I have finished say "poor Baby, you must be shattered after the day you have just had" (or something to that effect).
> 
> Books like Men are from Mars are just about helping us to understand the different ways we think to enable us to ask for what we need without denying who we are.


 

You  see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you. 

I believe people call this communication. Where both sides know what is going on, and one or both sides is allowed to speak and express themselves, while the other listens, and supports.

Hmmmm, what a novel new idea you have here.


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## Sarah (Mar 21, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> You see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you.
> 
> I believe people call this communication. Where both sides know what is going on, and one or both sides is allowed to speak and express themselves, while the other listens, and supports.
> 
> Hmmmm, what a novel new idea you have here.


 
I agree, but what you may not take into account is the emotional ups and downs us ladies tend to have. I consider myself an open honest person, but it is sometimes hard to verbalise exactly what it is we want, because sometimes we just may not be sure.

I remember telling my boyfriend that one thing you will not get from an emotional woman is a logical conversation, because emotions and logical don&#8217;t always go hand in hand!

Therefore it makes life so much easier if you communicate before these times come up. Ladys need to explain that when they are feeling emotional they may lash out, but to try not to take it personally because they dont really mean to hurt you. Also if a man needs some time out, just say so to his partner, say he will be back or else she will worry that she did something wrong and he is angry at her.


Communication with patience and a loving, forgiving heart is what&#8217;s required


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## Carol (Mar 22, 2006)

Men are from Mars.
Women are from Venus.

That's all good for the men that really are from Mars and the women that really are from Venus.  The problem for me is...I have pretty strong roots in....Vulcan.  

The more of this type of psychoanalysis floats about, the more I feel like I get squeezed out simply for being who I am.  




> I agree, but what you may not take into account is the emotional ups and downs us ladies tend to have. I consider myself an open honest person, but it is sometimes hard to verbalise exactly what it is we want, because sometimes we just may not be sure.


 

I'm a systems engineer, 12 years experience, heavily ensconced in the Voice over IP space.  Verbalizing what I am thinking or feeling, in a way that is appropriate and helpful, is part of my job.

Putting words to what I want, putting words to my ideas....politely, respectfully, hopefully with a decent sense of timing...that's a trait that carries over in to my personal life.  I can't help it, it's who I am.

But, that may not be what women from Venus are like.




> I remember telling my boyfriend that one thing you will not get from an emotional woman is a logical conversation, because emotions and logical dont always go hand in hand!


 
Ah, but for me, _everything_ and logic always goes hand in hand.  I dislike the word "emotional" because it implies that one is driven by one's emotions.   Emotive, yes.  Passionate, most certainly.   I am absolutely not a stone.  I have emotions...I feel them...but everything is against a backplane of logic.   I can tell someone how I am feeling.  I can tell someone why I feel that way.

Sometimes need a bit of direction.  Logical thought often leads to a logical response...but such a response isn't always the right response.  If someone doesn't like my train of thought, I'd rather have them tell me "Please, I just need to vent now", rather than stewing over the fact that I shared an idea with them.

Dang Vulcan blood....



> Therefore it makes life so much easier if you communicate before these times come up. Ladys need to explain that when they are feeling emotional they may lash out, but to try not to take it personally because they dont really mean to hurt you. Also if a man needs some time out, just say so to his partner, say he will be back or else she will worry that she did something wrong and he is angry at her.


 
That definitely help, but it takes a lot of trust to break through patterns of preconception.   If I were to walk up to a man that I barely know and say "HI, I'm a woman, but I'm more logical than emotional," what would his response be?  "Yeah, right..." coupled with a sarcastic laugh?

If I were to walk up to one of my new colleagues and say "Hi, I'm a woman, but I'm more logical than emotional," their reaction would likely be..."Well, DUH!"



> Communication with patience and a loving, forgiving heart is whats required


 
It takes more.  Communication with a loving, forgiving heart...and an open, accepting mind.  For once the mind is open enough to learn about and accept a man (or woman)...not with thoughts of changing him, not with societal presuppositions, not with measuring him up to what the book says he is like...but for who he truly is as an individual...it is _then _that the heart is truly released...set free to forgive, to be patient, and most importantly, to love.


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## Sarah (Mar 22, 2006)

I guess you wouldn&#8217;t fit into the stereotypical 'norm' and that&#8217;s just fine, there is also nothing wrong with being emtionional, I am driven by my emotions and feeling, it&#8217;s not a weakness, it makes me and extremely loving caring person.

What I was saying earlier about communication was in relation to an intimate relationship, the way we relate and communicate with workmates and people we have just met is quite different to the way we interact with our partners.


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## Tarot (Mar 22, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> You  see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you.


This is exactly what I do with my husband.  If I just need to vent and blow off steam, that's exactly what I say I'm doing.  If I'm looking for advice then I'll ask him what he thinks.    And vice versa.  Just because he's male doesn't mean he doesn't need to vent and blow off steam.  And just because I'm female, doesn't mean I can't offer solutions or advice.

I'm with Lady_kaur, I don't fit any stereotype for females.  And thank goodness for that!


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## Kreth (Mar 22, 2006)

I think you'll find that quite a few of the regulars here don't fit into any stereotypical "norms."


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## Carol (Mar 22, 2006)

Ayyyeee...I think I should have gone to bed early last night.

*hugs to Sarah*

I deeply apologize for that.  In no way did I ever intend to imply any sort of superior implications.

If I can manage to describe this without sounding hurtful, or rude...there are many folks that are outside of a "stereotypical norm".

Outside the stereotypical norm may mean being a man that is in his late 30's, without the wife or 2.6 kids and 1.2 pets.  

Or it may be a woman that's...a woman, just not from Venus.

Where the stumbling blocks occur is when a person doesn't meet another person's expectations.  If the expectations are set from society, they are much harder to work around, and often met with resistance, sometimes hurtful resistance.

Had this thread not been about being outside the norm...this is probably not a subject that I would have brought up.   

Again, absolultely no disrespect intended.  Please fogive me for the way I sounded.  :asian:


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## Sarah (Mar 22, 2006)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/add_user.shtml

_"Some researchers say that men can have 'women's brains' and that women can think more like men."_


*One of my closest friend has more of a male brain, ie thinks more like a man etc, its true to a point, she is very competitive and not effected to much by emotion..  Its actually one of the reasons I like her so much, she is to the point, pulls no punches and doesnt confuse facts with emotion.*

*I seem to fit somewhere in the middle, I still consider myself quite girly, but compared to my 'VERY feminine' girlfriends im some what of a hard ***.. lol*

*Will be interesting to see what kind of results others here get*


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## Sarah (Mar 22, 2006)

lol, Dont worry I took it as it was 

And you can feel asured that it todays world the "norm" is not really the norm anymore!


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## Cryozombie (Mar 22, 2006)

I'm outside the norm in many ways.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 23, 2006)

What we have identified so far:

1) Religion can lead people to make assumptions
1a) It is not alright in the USA for people to force others to follow their religion or to make it so that must feel like the must follow their religion.
1b) This is not the most likely cause, and can be a slight contributor to other causes as well.

2) Age: Generation wise
2a) It has been noted that people from an older generation are more likely to follow the getting married and having kids as the norm, and presume or assume and make comments even not ill willed about getting married and having kids.
2b) Those in the middle right now have pointed out cases where people were happy living together when they got married after years (* 5 to 10+ *), they were unhappy. This lead to being unhappy and depressed or getting a divorce.
2c) Those that are younger, are mixed depending upon their experiences. Yet many do not assume to get married, as a recent study stated that over 50% of all women born in Japan since 1972 have not gotten married and not had a child. (* Television news Blurb on Canadian TV  *)

3) Men are from Mars (* or where ever *) and Women are from Venus (* or where ever *)
3a) This puts into place a generic map for people to try to understnad others.
3b) What really came out of this was that communication to your partner is the best medicine for this issue.


I would like to discuss Starter Marriages next. I recently read about these as well a few months ago. This is where on or both of  a couple in a relationship in their early 20's agrees to marriage knowing they will not be married to this person later in life. They do this to get out of their parents house and to live on their own with someone else. As they cannot afford to live by themselves. 

1) Do you think these starter marriages are a sign of our culture expecting people to be married?

2) Or do you think these are just calculating young people who are willing to do something to get somewhere?

The Caveat or side note to number 2 directly above is why could they not jsut live together? This leads back to number one as in pressure from society?

Thoughts?


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## Sarah (Mar 23, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> 1) Do you think these starter marriages are a sign of our culture expecting people to be married?
> 
> 2) Or do you think these are just calculating young people who are willing to do something to get somewhere?
> 
> ...


 
I have not heard starter marriages referred to in that way before, I thought it was a reference to the fact most married people now days are on the second or third marriage, Meaning that younger people are not taking marriage as seriously as the older generation in this 'have an argument get a divorce culture'.  

I have even heard people say 'oh well if it doesnt work out you can always get a divorce', as it seems so easy (not so much here where the process takes two whole years).

As for your question above, again I have never heard of this, is it possible its for tax benefits??


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2006)

I read about "starter marriages" and it kind of disturbed me.  If I understood it correctly, it was young folks getting married, even though they have no plans to stay married, or something like that?  And getting divorced after a year or two?

I honestly don't know the answer to that one.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 23, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> I have not heard starter marriages referred to in that way before, I thought it was a reference to the fact most married people now days are on the second or third marriage, Meaning that younger people are not taking marriage as seriously as the older generation in this 'have an argument get a divorce culture'.
> 
> I have even heard people say 'oh well if it doesnt work out you can always get a divorce', as it seems so easy (not so much here where the process takes two whole years).
> 
> As for your question above, again I have never heard of this, is it possible its for tax benefits??


 
Sarah,

It was noted that it was mostly on the east and west coasts where cost of living we high and in metro areas as well.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 23, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> I read about "starter marriages" and it kind of disturbed me. If I understood it correctly, it was young folks getting married, even though they have no plans to stay married, or something like that? And getting divorced after a year or two?
> 
> I honestly don't know the answer to that one.


 

Well sometimes it was only one who did not want to stay married, and knew it going in. 

Most of the time they would get married in the mid 20's after college of post grad work and then get divorced by 30 for they expected to meet someone by then who would better fit their carear and life style goals.


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2006)

that is just...using another person in the worst way!  To have someone committed that one can jettison if one meets someone else?  

I don't think that is societal expectation...to me that just seems like selfishness.  very sad


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 23, 2006)

lady_kaur said:
			
		

> that is just...using another person in the worst way! To have someone committed that one can jettison if one meets someone else?
> 
> I don't think that is societal expectation...to me that just seems like selfishness. very sad


 
Yet sometimes as you mentioned both would agree to this.

So why not just live together. Still the same income and the same bills, and the slight tax benefit is out weighed if the divorce gets harry. 

Why do these people think the NEED to get married in the first place? They know they are not right or ready, yet they do?


(* So I do not forget - this leads to another possible issue of - Escape. One or both are looking to escape their current family life. *)


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## Tarot (Mar 24, 2006)

The idea of a starter marriage disturbs me as well.  However if both people are going into this arrangement knowing full well what all the terms are then who's to say it isn't right for them?  It becomes dishonest and using someone, only if one of the parties isn't aware that the marriage is short term.  If both people are aware then I guess they have every right to live how they want to.

This doesn't mean I agree with it.   I'm with Rich, and people should just live together instead of taking that legal step of getting married.  Otherwise it seems like they don't take the concept of a marriage very seriously if they know they are going to trash it in a few years.


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