# I'm a little baffled



## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Last night, after weeding through the misinformation that 1st-graders seem to create naturally, I discovered I couldn't attend class because our 1st-grader's holiday program was at 7 pm.

So, I called Sensei.

'Sensei', sez me, 'I can't come.  Holiday show.'
'That's too bad, man', sez Sensei, 'I was gonna have you teach class.'
'Whu?,' I said.
'I'm real sick,' he sez, 'been in bed for about 28 hours.'

Needless to say, I was a little baffled by this.  I'm still a white belt (technically speaking) and, though I've warmed up the class before, didn't think I was ready to run a class.  I mean, there are few adults (and fewer higher belts) and the class format is simple and I do know it fairly well.

The question I have for the board is this:

Instructors: given the circumstances, would you feel comfortable handing class over to such a low-belt student

and

Students:  ever have something like this happen to you?

domo


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## terryl965 (Dec 15, 2005)

Well onlyanegg in all of my forty years, I have never had a under belt try and run a class for me. If I was sick and had nobody, them the class would just be cancel. No good could ever come from a lower belt running class. Helping maybe but not running.
Terry


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Well onlyanegg in all of my forty years, I have never had a under belt try and run a class for me. If I was sick and had nobody, them the class would just be cancel. No good could ever come from a lower belt running class. Helping maybe but not running.
> Terry


 
I felt the same way when he said that.  I'm in no way prepared to be responsible for a class...even just one class.  I felt a little honored, a little uncomfortable and a lot unnerved by it.


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## Andrew Green (Dec 15, 2005)

Well he likely had a fever at the time 

White is a little early, If someone had a year or two AND was interested I might let them run a class, I'd be there though.  

Unless you got some other skill set he was going to ask you to bring in?  Yoga? Pilates? another style? anything?


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Well he likely had a fever at the time
> 
> White is a little early, If someone had a year or two AND was interested I might let them run a class, I'd be there though.
> 
> Unless you got some other skill set he was going to ask you to bring in? Yoga? Pilates?


 
Nope...no other skills beyond raising 4 kids (and the class _is_ mainly kids).

I do Tae-Bo...think that might've been it?


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## Andrew Green (Dec 15, 2005)

Well, maybe he was planning on you running a more games orientated class.  They don't take a lot of technical knowledge, but do take some ability controlling a group of kids.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Well, maybe he was planning on you running a more games orientated class. They don't take a lot of technical knowledge, but do take some ability controlling a group of kids.


 
All I can say is, _*if*_ it would've happened, I would've copied his class in it's entirety, adding nothing.  I got an ego, sure; but, not that big a one.  Honestly, though, I'm rather glad it didn't happen.  I feel too inexperienced, at this juncture.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I got an ego, sure; but, not that big a one.


 
Really??   

It is quite possible that he felt you have the maturity and integrity needed to run the class in his absence. I've known many skilled martial artists of high rank that I would never let teach my class. 

Teaching is a skill unto itself. Like a substitute teacher in public school, one doesn't always have to "teach" or even know the material extensively. 

They just have to be able to maintain order and run some sort of organized program. He probably didn't want the students to miss class and felt you had the best overall ability to facilitate a smooth class in his absence. 

That being said though, I think that I too would wait a while beyond your belt rank before allowing this to occur. My reasoning would have to do with how others would react to your leadership role and your ability to handle training questions. 

But it speaks highly of you that he considered you for the honor. I've often had a correct gut instinct about some of my lower ranks as to the kind of Artist and teacher they will be in the future. I think he has a good feeling about you as well.


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## arnisador (Dec 15, 2005)

White belt? No way. Could he have been making a jest that fell flat? Perhaps he meant that he'd watch from the sidelines and ask you to relay his instructions.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> White belt? No way. Could he have been making a jest that fell flat? Perhaps he meant that he'd watch from the sidelines and ask you to relay his instructions.


 
I questioned him on whether or not he was yanking my chain.  He said, twice, he was serious.  Strong possibility he may have been there to oversee; but, that was not stated.



			
				navarre said:
			
		

> Teaching is a skill unto itself. Like a substitute teacher in public school, one doesn't always have to "teach" or even know the material extensively.
> 
> They just have to be able to maintain order and run some sort of organized program.


 
That is the mindset I have, as well.  I certainly could not do anything over my own skill level; just keep the little scamps in line and avoid any blood spillage.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

I figured you'd kick in the dojo door and introduce them to Dark Egg.  Fear the lawn dart!


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

I have neglected to promote myself to GrandMaster Soke in Whammdo; so, I still cannot teach it...only allude to it.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I have neglected to promote myself to GrandMaster Soke in Whammdo; so, I still cannot teach it...only allude to it.


 
I understand (even though I'm probably the only person who has any idea what the heck you're talking about).

It's okay. There's nothing wrong with regular Egg, student of Seiei Kan.


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## green meanie (Dec 15, 2005)

Yeah, I'm a little thrown by this too. I can't imagine ever being in a situation where I'd have a white belt run a class for me. It just seems way too early. I think Andrew Green's fever induced delusion theory is starting to look really good right now.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

The fever theory is good, to a point.  It's true that, among students that consistantly attend class, there is almost no one to draw on in such circumstances.  I can't get over the idea, though, that class would be run by a little whitey like me, rather than cancelling.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I can't get over the idea, though, that class would be run by a little whitey like me, rather than cancelling.


 
Would there have been an ecomomic issue if class had been cancelled? Could your instructor have been concerned that students had paid for a class that wasn't being held and was looking for an alternative to dealing with any refund/class credit issues?


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Navarre said:
			
		

> Would there have been an ecomomic issue if class had been cancelled? Could your instructor have been concerned that students had paid for a class that wasn't being held and was looking for an alternative to dealing with any refund/class credit issues?


 
Unlikely.  He's a poor bookkeeper by his own admission.  Fees (outside of AKJU monies) are loosely monitored.


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## terryl965 (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg just for the sake of argument let just say great I did not have to be in that prostition at this time in my training. The respect that would have been lost by the students that have a belt already would have been a mindset that the school might not ben able to come back from.
Terry


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> (...)The respect that would have been lost by the students that have a belt already would have been a mindset that the school might not ben able to come back from.
> Terry


 
I can certainly see the point there, terry.  Placing this responsibility (honor) onto such a low belt could cause a degree of contempt in those that are significantly farther along.  More and more, I'm happy this passed by me.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 15, 2005)

On the other hand, if your basics are strong compared to the others in the class, maybe you could just spend the class working on those.  No new material, no complex skill sets, just running a workout, basically.  While the situation is unusual, I guess I could see it happening if he trusts you.


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## shesulsa (Dec 15, 2005)

Maybe ... it was a test.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Maybe ... it was a test.


 
I hope that's more like 'would've been a test.'

I mean, a seven-year-old's 'holiday presentation' that he's been wetting himself over for a week due to his excitement does, in fact, supercede karate class.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I hope that's more like 'would've been a test.'


 
Yep, guess you blew your shot at Grandmaster.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Navarre said:
			
		

> Yep, guess you blew your shot at Grandmaster.


 
I'll strive to come to terms with that   Meanwhile, I'll sleep easier knowing I didn't ruin some little kid's perception of MA.


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## Navarre (Dec 15, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, I'll sleep easier knowing I didn't ruin some little kid's perception of MA.


 
Well, I wouldn't say that. The concern about a lower rank teaching class has some merit only because of the perceived hierarchy built into the system. I think it has to be given validity because the ranking system does indeed exist. 

However, I have found myself learning a new perception or concept from white belts more than once. I have no doubt that you would have handled the class admirably, with integrity and respect.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

Thank you.  :asian:


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## shesulsa (Dec 15, 2005)

Egg ... if this had been a test from me, you would have passed the test.  There are plenty of white belts out there chomping at the bit to "teach" the class.  Your humility shone thru and you put your priorities in order.  Good job.

:asian:


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 15, 2005)

and thank you, too


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## Henderson (Dec 16, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Egg ... if this had been a test from me, you would have passed the test. There are plenty of white belts out there chomping at the bit to "teach" the class. Your humility shone thru and you put your priorities in order. Good job.


 
Shesulsa is right.  And EVERYTHING is a test. A+.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Shesulsa is right. And EVERYTHING is a test. A+.


 
This I believe.

Sensei was still sick for last night's class; but, one of his blacks came in and taught.  Sensei mentioned, at least twice, that he was serious about me taking over night before last.  I just smiled quietly to myself and, I'm sure, blushed.


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## shesulsa (Dec 16, 2005)

Henderson said:
			
		

> Shesulsa is right.  And EVERYTHING is a test. A+.


Indeed. Every day in your dojo/dojang is a test.  You're already testing for your next rank _right now_.


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## Henderson (Dec 16, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Indeed. Every day in your dojo/dojang is a test. You're already testing for your next rank _right now_.


 
My teacher makes a habit of this quite frequently.  "You've been testing for the past 6 months....congratulations", he says.


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## KenpoTess (Dec 16, 2005)

What do we want to be when we grow up as MA'ers?  Some want to be the end all fighter.. some just want that BB.. Seig and I groom our students to be Instructors.. from white belt on.. and that may mean- putting them in front of the class and having them do warmups.. and watching how they interact with others- seeing if they can command.. Granted we are right there when we put them out on their 'own'.. but we allow them them to 'teach' what they know to their fellow students.. Some may need help in projecting confidence, and from white belt on.. this is the best way to start them on the path to being a good teacher when it really is time to cut their apron strings.



Just my thoughts


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

I was flattered and I was honored at the prospect of 'teaching' the class.  Differing from you and Seig's approach, though, Tess, I don't think Sensei would've been there to oversee the class.  That made me uncomfortable.

What do I want from MA?  It's a fit question for this thread.  I would love to teach at some point; so, yes, I want that BB, too and, yes, I wanna be 133t fighter, as well.  I want the serenetiy that comes with discipline.  It's all part of it, I think and, therefore, all one answer.


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## Lisa (Dec 16, 2005)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> What do we want to be when we grow up as MA'ers?  Some want to be the end all fighter.. some just want that BB.. Seig and I groom our students to be Instructors.. from white belt on.. and that may mean- putting them in front of the class and having them do warmups.. and watching how they interact with others- seeing if they can command.. Granted we are right there when we put them out on their 'own'.. but we allow them them to 'teach' what they know to their fellow students.. Some may need help in projecting confidence, and from white belt on.. this is the best way to start them on the path to being a good teacher when it really is time to cut their apron strings.
> 
> 
> 
> Just my thoughts



Those are some awesome thoughts, Tess. :asian:

Egg, If you show half the responsibility, compassion and humility in your MA at class that you do here on MT, it does not surprise me he would ask.  I do wonder if he was testing you, seeing if your priorities were set straight.  Wondering if you would sacrifice family for a chance to stroke your ego.  Good show that you didn't jump at that chance.  Many a lesser person would have.

:asian:
Lisa


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

Lisa said:
			
		

> Those are some awesome thoughts, Tess. :asian:
> 
> Egg, If you show half the responsibility, compassion and humility in your MA at class that you do here on MT, it does not surprise me he would ask. I do wonder if he was testing you, seeing if your priorities were set straight. Wondering if you would sacrifice family for a chance to stroke your ego. Good show that you didn't jump at that chance. Many a lesser person would have.
> 
> ...


 
Lol...just about half is right   It's much easier to ignore someone here than it is to ignore a 6 year-old running around whipping his mom with his belt before class 

There's a little discipline issue at class now and then, you know.


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## Navarre (Dec 16, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> There's a little discipline issue at class now and then, you know.


 
Oh, I know. It's hard to instill discipline in anyone these days. It's a very different culture. 

Dojos are much like public schools. All serious teachers want to do is _teach_. 

Instead we contend with finances, politics, behavioral issues where we can do little, and parents who find us at fault for trying to stop little Timmy from playing with the katana!


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

I would like to see at least a partial return to classical discipline in my dojo.  It doesn't have to be the 20 pushups for talking or anything like that; but, some sort of structure and response for poor dojo behavior.

Danny has said, betimes, that people fail belt tests and it's not guaranteed at any point.  It's tough, though, to correct children these days in front of their parents.


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## Navarre (Dec 16, 2005)

I've had a few disagreements with parents over how my class is taught. I am always respectful and professional. 

Yet I still will continue to stand behind running the class as I see fit. It is a privately taught class. 

There are no outside guidelines beyond legal/ethical/moral ones. I will not become a slave to someone's tuition check. 

If they do not approve of the way I teach class they will be happier elsewhere. It is more damaging to set a precedent for tolerated issues than it is to lose a single student. 

That being said, it's a delicate matter that needs to be handled with a lot of tact, subtlety, and integrity.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

Navarre said:
			
		

> I've had a few disagreements with parents over how my class is taught. I am always respectful and professional.
> 
> Yet I still will continue to stand behind running the class as I see fit. It is a privately taught class.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed; but, there are certainly days when a good lashing would seem to want to do the trick.


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## Navarre (Dec 16, 2005)

Yeah! Whatever happened to the temple masters who hit students across the back with bamboo canes? Caning is a great way to keep those little snipes in line.


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## green meanie (Dec 16, 2005)

Perhaps 20 push ups for talking wouldn't be a bad place to start after all...


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## Henderson (Dec 16, 2005)

I for one would welcome stern discipline in the dojo.  This is not an "after school program", and if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I am but a very small piece in the puzzle.

Frank


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

It's funny, when I said something to my wife, last night, about this whole running-the-class thing, she said she'd stand them all at attention for the hour.


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## Henderson (Dec 16, 2005)

If this is a Japanese dojo, a little time in Seiza works wonders. *evil grin*


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

I have in mind horseback-riding stance as shown by Jackie Chan in The Drunken Master.


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## Navarre (Dec 16, 2005)

Well, all joking aside (which is only possible for me in brief periods of time) this is a martial arts school. 

Part of what we are required to teach is discipline. This is likely even part of the reason most parents bring their children to the class.

Discipline is a learned behavior. So is lack of discipline.

If one is to learn discipline then a disciplined environment must be created. We don't have to hit students with canes (no matter how much fun that might be) but we have to introduce an environment where only disciplined bahavior may flourish.

There is nothing wrong, absolutely nothing, with making a student perform exercise or hold a stance or anything reasonable as a penalty for failing to conduct themselves appropriately.  To do anything less is to teach a lack of respect and to reinforce a lack of discipline.

Senseis are teachers. We desire to help each pupil achieve their potential. We aren't there to be friends with the students. Friendship is fine and even useful but, if it comes down to it, we need to do what is right to maintain the integrity of what we teach.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

Understood and agreed.  Danny has, from time to time, provided such responses as pushups; but, alas, it's a little inconsistant.  Now, I begin to wonder about my responsibilities, as an older student, in this dojo.  Do I attempt to assist in wrangling these little ninjas, whisper loudly at them to keep still.  Myself, I do what I'm told to do in class.  Most days, though, it seems leading by example is inadequate.


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## green meanie (Dec 16, 2005)

Navarre said:
			
		

> There is nothing wrong, absolutely nothing, with making a student perform exercise or hold a stance or anything reasonable as a penalty for failing to conduct themselves appropriately. To do anything less is to teach a lack of respect and to reinforce a lack of discipline.


 
Amen to that.


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## Navarre (Dec 16, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Now, I begin to wonder about my responsibilities, as an older student, in this dojo. ... Most days, though, it seems leading by example is inadequate.


 
Hate to break the news to ya, buddy, but you'll be leading by example as a martial artist for the rest of your life. It's a big gi to fill but you've got the right spirit. 

Right now, for your rank, leading by example is all that's appropriate. Although I don't always agree with the belt hierarchy of our system, it is a part of it and should be followed. Stepping out of it, even with the best of intentions, will likely lead to someone thinking it's your ego talking and not your sense of respect. 

However, what your sensei says goes. If he sees fit to place you in some position as a mentor or whatever then that's his call and should also be respected. 

Either way, always conduct yourself with the utmost integrity and set your best example. More ppl will follow your quiet lead than you think.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 16, 2005)

Patience and perseverence, then, eh?  Very well.  Seems good and right.

Domo  :asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 16, 2005)

I am in on this thread late but my thoughts are that If you where the highest ranking student ( even if it is white) maybe if he cionsidered you mature enough to only follow his teaching plan.
 Personaly I have had green belts teach part of my classes but I was there to watch them (It is part of my school that students learn to teach early)  and I could correct them after class (if they didn't make a big mistake)


> _There is nothing wrong, absolutely nothing, with making a student perform exercise or hold a stance or anything reasonable as a penalty for failing to conduct themselves appropriately. To do anything less is to teach a lack of respect and to reinforce a lack of discipline._


 _I totaly agree with this_


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 20, 2005)

I'm no longer baffled.  I am locked in.  Sensei came by tonight and placed me in charge of the class for tomorrow.  He took the time to check with his sensei and I got the ok all around.

I'm a little nervous; but, I have a good plan.


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## Navarre (Dec 20, 2005)

If your sensei wants you up there there's a good reason. Go with it, relax (my usual advice to you), and have a good time.


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## green meanie (Dec 20, 2005)

Good Luck!


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## shesulsa (Dec 21, 2005)

Well, Egg, right on!  This is a great sign for you and speaks highly of your quality.  Please let us know how it goes and your thoughts on everything as things progress.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 21, 2005)

Thanks for the kind words and, of course, I'll post something about the experience.  Don't expect a gangbusters post, though.  The plan is to do nothing more than I already know.  I won't be changing the face of American Karate or anything tonight


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## KenpoTess (Dec 21, 2005)

There ya go Egg  Just another learning process you're about to undertake.. 
One thing I offer students.. Keep the fun in the class.. make them want more 

You'll do your Sensei proud :asian:

~Tess


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## arnisador (Dec 21, 2005)

Good luck to you! Don't be fancy...just keep it on an even keel.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

It was nearly comical.  My wife, two kids and I were the only ones there for a while.  At the last minute, I had another student show up (such are the days before Christmas  ).

I took them through a little extra stretching and a lot of work on basics.  I had to rein my kids in once or twice; lol, they were supposed to be the good examples, and took the time to better define chest block to the two young girls.

So, basics, kata and then sparring.  We were an odd number; so, the non-related student's Dad joined us.  He had several years jj and submission training and we sparred twice, he and I.

All in all, it was fun and *relaxed* and we all got a good workout.

Thanks for all the words of support from you'uns   It made a world of difference.


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## green meanie (Dec 22, 2005)

Woo hoo! Glad it went well for ya.


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## Lisa (Dec 22, 2005)

Excellent job Egg!  Glad it was such a positive experience. 

So, what you going to do in the next class you are asked to lead?


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

Lisa said:
			
		

> Excellent jo Egg! Glad it was such a positive experience.
> 
> So, what you going to do in the next class you are asked to lead?


 
Rebuild all the katas, promote myself to nth Dan and start Eggdo Karate, LLC.  Black belts for $250.  Includes certificate with random asianesque markings!

Seriously, though, I'll do the same thing, most likely.  Basics and protocol, kata and kumite.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

Eggdo Karate, by the way, includes both hard and soft styles.


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## Lisa (Dec 22, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Eggdo Karate, by the way, includes both hard and soft styles.



Must be very careful with Eggdo Karate, in the hands of one not trained properly it could scramble ones brains. 

(*groan,  )


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

Oh, here we go again 

To master Eggdo, one must create a sphere of strength on the outside, while remaining fluid internally.

That'll be $50


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## Makalakumu (Dec 22, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> Oh, here we go again
> 
> To master Eggdo, one must create a sphere of strength on the outside, while remaining fluid internally.
> 
> That'll be $50


 
And one must remember that a single point on that sphere is weak, but the entire sphere together is strong.  

Can I be promoted now?


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

I need the $50 first.  Promotion without payment is not the Eggdo...ummm, do.


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## KenpoTess (Dec 22, 2005)

Way to go Eggaber~!!


Hey, ever try that vinegar egg thingy to get it in a bottle..  Uhhh..


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Way to go Eggaber~!!
> 
> 
> Hey, ever try that vinegar egg thingy to get it in a bottle.. Uhhh..


 
This question is sooooo dangerous...


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## KenpoTess (Dec 22, 2005)

well I Am a Dangerous Woman after all


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> well I Am a Dangerous Woman after all


 
heheh...aren't you all?


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## arnisador (Dec 22, 2005)

Glad it went well! Sounds like a good way to start.


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Glad it went well! Sounds like a good way to start.


Thanks, arni.  I just hope he doesn't do this again anytime soon.  Talk about a stressor!


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

Check's in the mail, Egg. I am the um/yang of the o/vum. 

Eh? Eh? :uhyeah:

Good job! Strong basics are always important. You rock!!


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## OnlyAnEgg (Dec 22, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Check's in the mail, Egg. I am the um/yang of the o/vum.
> 
> Eh? Eh? :uhyeah:
> 
> Good job! Strong basics are always important. You rock!!


 
I'm issuing a complete refund.  As founder, developer and exploiter of Eggdo, I am free to say that blatant sexism is a founding principle of the art.  This is to say, chicks don't need to pay. :supcool: 

On a more serious note, thanks, shesulsa 

edit:  cha-ching!  1000!


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## shesulsa (Dec 22, 2005)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> chicks don't need to pay. :supcool:


Well, in that case, *chirp* *chirp*!

Congrats on 1,000!  You look gooder in blacker.


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## Navarre (Dec 22, 2005)

Congrats on leading your first class, Egg! I'm glad it went well but never had any doubts about it being so.

Having your own children as students presents unique challenges. The class size was certainly manageable but I wish you'd had more students. You'd have done just as well.

I look forward to hearing about how it goes next time because I can assure you there _will _be a next time.


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