# the question that could start a massive debate



## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

As we all know, there are a ton of martial arts out there. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and vary greatly in how they work. Here is my question, in your opinion, which martial art, overall and in every way, is the greatest martial art ever? not just for one situation, but overall in all situations and in all ways... which martial art is superior to all others? I know, if people respond to this, a lot of people are gonna say that there is not one martial art that is superior to the rest... but I am curious to know that if you had to choose one martial art for all purposes, which one would you choose? If people reply to this post please agree to disagree, I am not trying to start some huge flame war argument.


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## Langenschwert (Jul 1, 2015)

None. This is a nonsensical question because violence is a social phenomenon and any martial art develops in a certain context. There is no martial art that covers everything. Some are quite comprehensive, but outside of their intended context they are less effective. No martial art can develop without context.

In a similar vein, you can't say that a hammer is a "better" tool than a saw. No martial art covers all purposes. Even a well-rounded MMA fighter will find himself out of his depth in a rapier duel.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

Langenschwert said:


> None. This is a nonsensical question because violence is a social phenomenon and any martial art develops in a certain context. There is no martial art that covers everything. Some are quite comprehensive, but outside of their intended context they are less effective. No martial art can develop without context.
> 
> In a similar vein, you can't say that a hammer is a "better" tool than a saw. No martial art covers all purposes. Even a well-rounded MMA fighter will find himself out of his depth in a rapier duel.


Yes, no martial art covers everything.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Yes, no martial art covers everything.


I was just trying to see which martial art people would choose if they had to choose one


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## Langenschwert (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Yes, no martial art covers everything.



So then it really comes down to what threats the individual thinks he or she is most likely to face, assuming self-defence. It also depends on the build of the individual and local laws. If you can carry weapons, then that becomes a consideration. If you can't, then that is also something to consider. Local laws on levels of force are also important when selecting a martial art.

I train MA a lot. I train HEMA, Judo, Modern Combatives, Battojutsu and a bit of Irish Stick. There's still stuff I'm missing, though I can "get by" in a lot of different situations. I don't have much of a no-gi ground game, for example. My sword & buckler fencing leaves a lot to be desired too. I train each of those arts for varying reasons.

There's the rub... you can be a specialist and be flummoxed when taken out of your element, or you can be a generalist and get beaten down by specialists if you can't take them out of their comfort zone.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

Langenschwert said:


> So then it really comes down to what threats the individual thinks he or she is most likely to face, assuming self-defence. It also depends on the build of the individual and local laws. If you can carry weapons, then that becomes a consideration. If you can't, then that is also something to consider. Local laws on levels of force are also important when selecting a martial art.
> 
> I train MA a lot. I train HEMA, Judo, Modern Combatives, Battojutsu and a bit of Irish Stick. There's still stuff I'm missing, though I can "get by" in a lot of different situations. I don't have much of a no-gi ground game, for example. My sword & buckler fencing leaves a lot to be desired too. I train each of those arts for varying reasons.
> 
> There's the rub... you can be a specialist and be flummoxed when taken out of your element, or you can be a generalist and get beaten down by specialists if you can't take them out of their comfort zone.


maybe you're right and it is a nonsensical question. the very reason i posted it is because it is damn near impossible to answer. make people think, and think hard. its easy to say which martial art is better for varying reasons, like boxing for punching, or BJJ for grappling, or whatever. I just thought the fact that it is such a difficult question to answer would make it thought provoking. but maybe its not difficult, maybe its impossible


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## Langenschwert (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> I was just trying to see which martial art people would choose if they had to choose one



That's a fair question, but it's going to come down to "the one they like best". 

My HEMA stuff is fairly comprehensive, dealing with a variety of weapons, some knife defence and stand-up grappling. It would suffice if I trained the grappling really really hard. The issue is the knife defence is against daggers, and doesn't work as well against say a tactical folder. Should the zombie apocalypse ever happen, I'm in good shape though! There's not much for striking in the medieval sources though. Just to soften up a person to throw them, so there's a weakness.

My modern combatives itself is a combination of a variety of sources already.

FMA can be quite good for all-round martial arts training. They're probably going to be as close as you're going to get.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

Langenschwert said:


> That's a fair question, but it's going to come down to "the one they like best".
> 
> My HEMA stuff is fairly comprehensive, dealing with a variety of weapons, some knife defence and stand-up grappling. It would suffice if I trained the grappling really really hard. The issue is the knife defence is against daggers, and doesn't work as well against say a tactical folder. Should the zombie apocalypse ever happen, I'm in good shape though! There's not much for striking in the medieval sources though. Just to soften up a person to throw them, so there's a weakness.
> 
> ...


cool! you are the first person I have met who practices Historical European Martial Arts. it sounds fierce! regrettably i know little about it but i can learn. One school i was thinking about taking taught Kali the Philippino weapons martial art, i saw some videos and the speed and precision was amazing! thanks for sharing


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## Buka (Jul 1, 2015)

American Karate, of course. Far superior to everything else out there. Why, you might ask.

1. We count in English, well, in American, anyway. Saves time not learning to count in another language - giving you more time to think up stories to tell your buddies how cool you were in class last night.

2. We watch TV and read magazines (also in English) and memorize the names of Martial people, places and things so we sound like we know what we're talking about. At least to each other....and our moms.

3. We don't do much Kata, except for the advanced Morphing Kata which changes everytime you do it. Or at least everytime you show your girlfriend's friends.

4. We talk a real good fight.

5. Superior weaponry. Plastic forks and knives. You can even take them on an airplane, you know, in case they run out.


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## zzj (Jul 1, 2015)

Yellow bamboo is like the best, most powerfulest martial art like ever


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## elder999 (Jul 1, 2015)

_"Some people can go thru their whole lives with just a damn good left hook. Live a long, prosperous and healthy life. *But i*n training doctrine, better said is - the theory of "best training doctrine" - you need to box. If you need to box then you must kick box. If you need kickboxing, then you need to know takedowns. Then you must ground wrestle. *BU*T! If you ground fight, you also need to add "ground n pound" to it. Then, of course, you need to really worry about weapons. *BUT..*.*but,* certainly...there are indeed people...who manage to go through their entire lives, successfully with just a terrific, left hook."_
W. "hock" Hochheim


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## crazydiamond (Jul 1, 2015)

"Flying ...Drone technique".

It requires a keen eye, and nimble wrists to deliver precise strikes which can eliminate your enemy where ever they are positioned - with no possible risk to you.

If this was available in Japan or China hundreds of years ago - you think there would have ever been ninjas and samurai? Nah - just nerds with remote controls.


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## RTKDCMB (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> I was just trying to see which martial art people would choose if they had to choose one


My guess would be the one they already chose.


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## Hanzou (Jul 1, 2015)

If we're to be honest with ourselves, its probably MMA, since it merges many potent styles and properly combines grappling and striking.


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## Langenschwert (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> cool! you are the first person I have met who practices Historical European Martial Arts. it sounds fierce! regrettably i know little about it but i can learn. One school i was thinking about taking taught Kali the Philippino weapons martial art, i saw some videos and the speed and precision was amazing! thanks for sharing



There's nothing like a few pounds of steel flying at your head say 40 mph to keep you alert. If you start HEMA, do some research on the club, as they are not all created equal and have different goals. Some are tournament-focused, others are more like classical kenjutsu. Both can be good. Some are specific to time period, others more eclectic. 

There are a number of FMA, and most of them do weapons quite well. The only issues of the legality of using it in self-defence. If you constantly to disarm a knife and stab the guy with it in a lethal manner (aka "return to sender"), and you do it in real life, that's an issue. I did FMA as a kid, and quite liked it.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If we're to be honest with ourselves, its probably MMA, since it merges many potent styles and properly combines grappling and striking.


is MMA considered a single martial art or a combination of martial arts? i'm not sure. If it is a single martial art, then in my opinion it is without a doubt the best martial art. However, if it is considered a combo of multiple martial arts and not a single art then I would probably go with Krav Maga... in my opinion Krav Maga is a comprehensive martial art that comes closer to covering all the basics than any other martial art... except MMA, but now i'm going around in circles lol


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 1, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> is MMA considered a single martial art or a combination of martial arts? i'm not sure. If it is a single martial art, then in my opinion it is without a doubt the best martial art. However, if it is considered a combo of multiple martial arts and not a single art then I would probably go with Krav Maga... in my opinion Krav Maga is a comprehensive martial art that comes closer to covering all the basics than any other martial art... except MMA, but now i'm going around in circles lol


i meant bases not basics sorry


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## Langenschwert (Jul 2, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If we're to be honest with ourselves, its probably MMA, since it merges many potent styles and properly combines grappling and striking.



There are a number of things MMA training doesn't cover: de-escalation, multiple opponents, weapons, and environmental conditions (obstacles, poor lighting, poor footing etc). A good MMA fighter is in a better position to learn those things than most, but it bears mentioning.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Langenschwert said:


> There are a number of things MMA training doesn't cover: de-escalation, multiple opponents, weapons, and environmental conditions (obstacles, poor lighting, poor footing etc). A good MMA fighter is in a better position to learn those things than most, but it bears mentioning.


that depends also though. grappling martial arts such as BJJ or Judo are  not effective against multiple opponents... but how about Kickboxing or Muay Thai? Another thing is how you define MMA. there are certain styles most commonly used in MMA. however, any style can be added and it would still be MMA. that right there is why MMA is so formidable, whatever uses it is lacking, just add on a martial art that provides it with that usage. I know a school that doesn't call itself MMA, but it teaches five different martial arts... isn't that kind of MMA? the reason i bring this up is because one of the styles it teaches is Filipino weapons training, so the lack of weapons training you mentioned is right there. so idk... i'm kind of rambling now...but you bring up a good point.but even if it doesn't cover everything you mentioned, it still covers more bases than any other martial art for sure... that is if you consider MMA a martial art and not a combination of martial arts. i guess in reality it is both. what blows my mind about MMA is how hard people must have to train to excel at 3-4 different kinds of martial arts... one martial art is hard enough! unless of course your Chuck Norris


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 2, 2015)

i dont see what the problem is.

best martial art ever...one word....................Amerido-te   "best of all. worst of none"

ok thats more than one word but you know what im saying. everything else is just BS.


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## ShortBridge (Jul 2, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> i dont see what the problem is.
> 
> best martial art ever...one word....................Amerido-te   "best of all. worst of none"...



Absolutely, I was just going to type that, but you beat me to it. No question about it.

Name a martial art! ...


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

when i first saw you guys post Amerido-te i thought "oh cool a martial art i've never heard of" then i looked it up and yes, i now see why you said it. LOL!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

elder999 said:


> _"Some people can go thru their whole lives with just a damn good left hook. Live a long, prosperous and healthy life. *But i*n training doctrine, better said is - the theory of "best training doctrine" - you need to box. If you need to box then you must kick box. If you need kickboxing, then you need to know takedowns. Then you must ground wrestle. *BU*T! If you ground fight, you also need to add "ground n pound" to it. Then, of course, you need to really worry about weapons. *BUT..*.*but,* certainly...there are indeed people...who manage to go through their entire lives, successfully with just a terrific, left hook."_
> W. "hock" Hochheim



that's a great quote. reminds me of the quote "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times" by Bruce Lee. sometimes all you need is one move... for instance, when i was training Shaolin Kung Fu i heard about a Karate tournament fighter that had one move, a roundhouse, he practiced and practiced and practiced this one move, that with this one roundhouse he became the champion of the tournament!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

RTKDCMB said:


> My guess would be the one they already chose.



I guess I could have worded that better. My favorite martial art is Taekwondo, but if I had to choose which martial art is the best, I'd probably choose Krav Maga. I don't know if that makes sense or sounds weird or whatever but yeah


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

crazydiamond said:


> "Flying ...Drone technique".
> 
> It requires a keen eye, and nimble wrists to deliver precise strikes which can eliminate your enemy where ever they are positioned - with no possible risk to you.
> 
> If this was available in Japan or China hundreds of years ago - you think there would have ever been ninjas and samurai? Nah - just nerds with remote controls.



good point, but not all martial arts are hundreds of years old. I just finished another post mentioning Krav Maga, and now i'm mentioning it again, it's not brand new but its around 60 years old... younger than my parents. i've heard Krav Maga people say that martial arts such as Karate and Kung Fu are too old and outdated and Krav Maga is the martial art for modern times... that I don't really agree with at all but its an interesting point regardless


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## Jenna (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> i heard about a Karate tournament fighter that had one move, a roundhouse, he practiced and practiced and practiced this one move, that with this one roundhouse he became the champion of the tournament!


that read like the plotline for most all JCVD movies


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## donald1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Yeah, ameri do te.


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## Langenschwert (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> that depends also though. grappling martial arts such as BJJ or Judo are  not effective against multiple opponents... but how about Kickboxing or Muay Thai? Another thing is how you define MMA. there are certain styles most commonly used in MMA. however, any style can be added and it would still be MMA. that right there is why MMA is so formidable, whatever uses it is lacking, just add on a martial art that provides it with that usage. I know a school that doesn't call itself MMA, but it teaches five different martial arts... isn't that kind of MMA? the reason i bring this up is because one of the styles it teaches is Filipino weapons training, so the lack of weapons training you mentioned is right there. so idk... i'm kind of rambling now...but you bring up a good point.but even if it doesn't cover everything you mentioned, it still covers more bases than any other martial art for sure... that is if you consider MMA a martial art and not a combination of martial arts. i guess in reality it is both. what blows my mind about MMA is how hard people must have to train to excel at 3-4 different kinds of martial arts... one martial art is hard enough! unless of course your Chuck Norris



With regards to the club that teaches five different arts, I wouldn't call it MMA as FMA weapons aren't allowed in MMA competitions. By that metric, my club is an MMA club too because we do HEMA and modern combatives.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 2, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> i dont see what the problem is.
> 
> best martial art ever...one word....................Amerido-te   "best of all. worst of none"
> 
> ok thats more than one word but you know what im saying. everything else is just BS.



Sinanju beats Ameri-Do-Te...


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Jenna said:


> that read like the plotline for most all JCVD movies



heck yeah i love JCVD! he is one of my role modes!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Langenschwert said:


> With regards to the club that teaches five different arts, I wouldn't call it MMA as FMA weapons aren't allowed in MMA competitions. By that metric, my club is an MMA club too because we do HEMA and modern combatives.


well, they train each martial art at different times at the school I mentioned, so you could just take the other four (Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and BJJ) and not take the Bali course.


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> As we all know, there are a ton of martial arts out there. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and vary greatly in how they work. Here is my question, in your opinion, which martial art, overall and in every way, is the greatest martial art ever? not just for one situation, but overall in all situations and in all ways... which martial art is superior to all others? I know, if people respond to this, a lot of people are gonna say that there is not one martial art that is superior to the rest... but I am curious to know that if you had to choose one martial art for all purposes, which one would you choose? If people reply to this post please agree to disagree, I am not trying to start some huge flame war argument.


If I had to choose only one martial art I would choose Shi-to Ryu Karate. Im just picking it because its my main style. Im not saying its better than any of the other styles, it just works for me and my answer is based in personal preference.


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 2, 2015)

elder999 said:


> _"Some people can go thru their whole lives with just a damn good left hook. Live a long, prosperous and healthy life. *But i*n training doctrine, better said is - the theory of "best training doctrine" - you need to box. If you need to box then you must kick box. If you need kickboxing, then you need to know takedowns. Then you must ground wrestle. *BU*T! If you ground fight, you also need to add "ground n pound" to it. Then, of course, you need to really worry about weapons. *BUT..*.*but,* certainly...there are indeed people...who manage to go through their entire lives, successfully with just a terrific, left hook."_
> W. "hock" Hochheim



Well Im not one to argue with Hock. I met him personally and I must say he really does know his stuff.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> If I had to choose only one martial art I would choose Shi-to Ryu Karate. Im just picking it because its my main style. Im not saying its better than any of the other styles, it just works for me and my answer is based in personal preference.


that's a great martial art too. i mean the general consensus is that you can't put one style above another style, it all depends on the gym, instructor, and how hard you train.


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## Argus (Jul 2, 2015)

Hanzou said:


> If we're to be honest with ourselves, its probably MMA, since it merges many potent styles and properly combines grappling and striking.



MMA is a great base for unarmed combatives, but it doesn't deal with weapons at all. That's a huge hole if you're looking for a broad approach that covers as much as possible.

I'd agree with those who have suggested FMA. It's not the end all be all -- no art is. But it covers all of the likely weapons you are to come across in a modern context, as well as striking, grappling, and even a small amount of groundwork.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Argus said:


> MMA is a great base for unarmed combatives, but it doesn't deal with weapons at all. That's a huge hole if you're looking for a broad approach that covers as much as possible.
> 
> I'd agree with those who have suggested FMA. It's not the end all be all -- no art is. But it covers all of the likely weapons you are to come across in a modern context, as well as striking, grappling, and even a small amount of groundwork.



another contender is Krav Maga. They use hand to hand combat, how to disarm someone with a weapon, and all sorts of military stuff... i'm not sure but I think they may do some grappling as well.


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## Argus (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> another contender is Krav Maga. They use hand to hand combat, how to disarm someone with a weapon, and all sorts of military stuff... i'm not sure but I think they may do some grappling as well.



Yeah, I was thinking that too. I'm actually not that familiar with Krav, though. I know they train to defend against weapons, but do they train to use them as well?


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Argus said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that too. I'm actually not that familiar with Krav, though. I know they train to defend against weapons, but do they train to use them as well?


Yes Krav Maga trains both how to use weapons and defend against them. here is an article that goes into more detail:

Krav Maga Weapons


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Yes Krav Maga trains both how to use weapons and defend against them. here is an article that goes into more detail:
> 
> Krav Maga Weapons



here's the thing about Krav Maga... it is much younger than Karate or Kung Fu. It is more of a modern day martial art. So while people in Karate or Kung Fu use weapons such as swords, staffs, and nunchucks, Krav Maga teaches how to disarm and use M-16s, hand guns, and knives


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## Argus (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> here's the thing about Krav Maga... it is much younger than Karate or Kung Fu. It is more of a modern day martial art. So while people in Karate or Kung Fu use weapons such as swords, staffs, and nunchucks, Krav Maga teaches how to disarm and use M-16s, hand guns, and knives



Yeah, I would agree. Though, FMA does that as well.

I do feel that FMA has a bit of an advantage in how it's taught, and that it's a bit more all encompassing. It covers a lot of footwork, and develops a broader approach to combat, and trains it in a very "live" way. Krav, from the little I've seen of it, is more rigid and technique focused.

I think I personally learn better with more of a FMA approach, where things are less structured and there's more flow and experimentation. But I also think there are people who probably learn better with a more structured approach and practice as found in Krav and many traditional Japanese arts. So, to some extent, the learning style and natural aptitude of the practitioner should probably be considered.


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## donald1 (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> here's the thing about Krav Maga... it is much younger than Karate or Kung Fu. It is more of a modern day martial art. So while people in Karate or Kung Fu use weapons such as swords, staffs, and nunchucks, Krav Maga teaches how to disarm and use M-16s, hand guns, and knives



Do they really teach you to use guns in krav maga? (Atleast from what im reading thats what it sounds like) I ask this question because the only thing I know about that style is how to spell it correctly 

I think ill keep to just practicing with my rokushakubō(staff) and niuweidao (saber)


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Argus said:


> Yeah, I would agree. Though, FMA does that as well.
> 
> I do feel that FMA has a bit of an advantage in how it's taught, and that it's a bit more all encompassing. It covers a lot of footwork, and develops a broader approach to combat, and trains it in a very "live" way. Krav, from the little I've seen of it, is more rigid and technique focused.
> 
> I think I personally learn better with more of a FMA approach, where things are less structured and there's more flow and experimentation. But I also think there are people who probably learn better with a more structured approach and practice as found in Krav and many traditional Japanese arts. So, to some extent, the learning style and natural aptitude of the practitioner should probably be considered.



yeah, as seems to be the case almost always with martial arts, is there is no best martial art... different styles are good for different people.  its impossible or damn near impossible to say one martial art rises above the rest in every way, i guess i was just trying to challenge people when i asked which single one is all around superior to the rest ya feel me. the only FMA i'm familiar with is Kali. there is a gym i was thinking about joining that offers Kali as well as Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and BJJ.  it sounds like an awesome martial art though, just to be honest i haven't heard of it much hardly at all, at least until i joined this website, and have seen several posts about FMA. so let me ask you, is there grappling in FMA? if so, is it more like Judo, BJJ, Sambo or Greco Roman Wrestling? what do you mean exactly when you say it covers a lot of footwork? does it have a lot of striking? my guess for that last question would be yes, but i'm asking anyway  what is your favorite aspect of FMA? i hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions, i'm just regrettably ignorant about FMA and it sounds fascinating.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

donald1 said:


> Do they really teach you to use guns in krav maga? (Atleast from what im reading thats what it sounds like) I ask this question because the only thing I know about that style is how to spell it correctly
> 
> I think ill keep to just practicing with my rokushakubō(staff) and niuweidao (saber)



yes, not only do they use guns in Krav Maga, they state that shooting is the best way to end a conflict. They put shooting guns over hand to hand combat, which isn't to say they don't do plenty of hand to hand combat also... but one of their main focuses is to shoot someone if you have a gun and if your opponent has a gun techniques to disarm your attacker and use it against him/her.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> yes, not only do they use guns in Krav Maga, they state that shooting is the best way to end a conflict. They put shooting guns over hand to hand combat, which isn't to say they don't do plenty of hand to hand combat also... but one of their main focuses is to shoot someone if you have a gun and if your opponent has a gun techniques to disarm your attacker and use it against him/her.



ok i correct myself i shouldn't say that shooting someone is the "best" way to end a conflict, but maybe the most efficient way. i got robbed at gunpoint by a dude standing 8 feet away from me... I could have been Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris combined still can't dodge bullets!


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> ok i correct myself i shouldn't say that shooting someone is the "best" way to end a conflict, but maybe the most efficient way. i got robbed at gunpoint by a dude standing 8 feet away from me... I could have been Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris combined still can't dodge bullets!



one more thing... this differs depending on where you are, but I live in Atlanta. now in Atlanta, if someone messes with you, it probably means you're in the hood. and if you're in the hood, damn good chance dude be  packin heat. that is where Krav Maga would really come in handy. if you can close the distance between you and him, you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him. Most other martial arts, someone pulls a gun on you, whatcha gonna do?


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## Argus (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> yeah, as seems to be the case almost always with martial arts, is there is no best martial art... different styles are good for different people.  its impossible or damn near impossible to say one martial art rises above the rest in every way, i guess i was just trying to challenge people when i asked which single one is all around superior to the rest ya feel me. the only FMA i'm familiar with is Kali. there is a gym i was thinking about joining that offers Kali as well as Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and BJJ.  it sounds like an awesome martial art though, just to be honest i haven't heard of it much hardly at all, at least until i joined this website, and have seen several posts about FMA. so let me ask you, is there grappling in FMA? if so, is it more like Judo, BJJ, Sambo or Greco Roman Wrestling? what do you mean exactly when you say it covers a lot of footwork? does it have a lot of striking? my guess for that last question would be yes, but i'm asking anyway  what is your favorite aspect of FMA? i hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions, i'm just regrettably ignorant about FMA and it sounds fascinating.



That's okay. I'm still new to FMA, and my background is mostly in Wing Chun. The two are pretty similar and complementary, by the way. But FMA is definitely a bit broader in scope.

Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all generic terms for Filipino Martial Arts. There are actually tons and tons of Systems within Filipino Martial Arts. But most of them are somewhat similar as they've borrowed from each other. Specifically, I practice Lameco Eskrima, which is a synthesis of 3 major systems: Pekiti Tirsia, The Illustrissimo System, and the Caballero System. It also contains influence from a number of smaller systems. I also practice a bit of Pekiti Tirsia when I can make it down to train with one of our members here on MT 

I'm sure others can give a better break down of the systems than I can, as I'm still fairly new, but FMA covers striking and trapping very similar to how Wing Chun does. The grappling is a bit more dynamic than judo or wrestling, consisting more of wrist-locks, disarms, and arm locks/breaks. It doesn't really get into prolonged, stand off wrestling in the same way as Judo, BJJ, or Greco Roman Wrestling because of the likelihood of weapons being involved. The grappling is there to compliment the usage of weapons, or any empty hand striking you may employ. If anything, it's fairly similar to a lot of what we do in Aikido, but more aggressive and offensive in nature. Like I said though, my knowledge of it is very limited.

My favorite aspect of FMA's is definitely the focus on weapons, though. The presence of a knife, a stick, or a machete really changes your outlook. The main reason I got into it was because I realized that, while I had a decent foundation in Wing Chun, I was not able to apply my empty hand skills effectively when a knife was involved -- simply because it's not something I ever trained to deal with. So, the knife defense aspect and use of improvised weapons is really why I've started training FMA's recently.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Argus said:


> That's okay. I'm still new to FMA, and my background is mostly in Wing Chun. The two are pretty similar and complementary, by the way. But FMA is definitely a bit broader in scope.
> 
> Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all generic terms for Filipino Martial Arts. There are actually tons and tons of Systems within Filipino Martial Arts. But most of them are somewhat similar as they've borrowed from each other. Specifically, I practice Lameco Eskrima, which is a synthesis of 3 major systems: Pekiti Tirsia, The Illustrissimo System, and the Caballero System. It also contains influence from a number of smaller systems. I also practice a bit of Pekiti Tirsia when I can make it down to train with one of our members here on MT
> 
> ...



sounds pretty complex... a lot of different systems. so the primary focus is on weapons? sounds like a lot of knives. Interesting that you compared it to Aikido... I know a few Aikido practitioners personally, and saw a guy with a black belt in it do some kind of wrist thing and flip over a guy twice his size. but yeah that's a lot of systems... sounds fierce! If you have any videos demonstrating it I'd love to see them. there must be a ton of different moves with so many systems.. and i bet if you really learn all the systems you will be a damn well rounded fighter!


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## Argus (Jul 2, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> sounds pretty complex... a lot of different systems. so the primary focus is on weapons? sounds like a lot of knives. Interesting that you compared it to Aikido... I know a few Aikido practitioners personally, and saw a guy with a black belt in it do some kind of wrist thing and flip over a guy twice his size. but yeah that's a lot of systems... sounds fierce! If you have any videos demonstrating it I'd love to see them. *there must be a ton of different moves with so many systems.. and i bet if you really learn all the systems you will be a damn well rounded fighter!*



That would make you Dan Inosanto, basically


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 2, 2015)

Argus said:


> That would make you Dan Inosanto, basically



Dan Inosanto! the school i mentioned (at least i think i mentioned it i'm too lazy to go back through my posts and check and sometimes i'm forgetful) but yeah there is a school in Tucker, GA named Elite Academy of Martial Arts that teaches a unique combination of martial arts: Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Kali. there is a picture of Sifu Mike, head of the school, with some other martial artists, one of which is Dan Inosanto!


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## Argus (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Dan Inosanto! the school i mentioned (at least i think i mentioned it i'm too lazy to go back through my posts and check and sometimes i'm forgetful) but yeah there is a school in Tucker, GA named Elite Academy of Martial Arts that teaches a unique combination of martial arts: Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Kali. there is a picture of Sifu Mike, head of the school, with some other martial artists, one of which is Dan Inosanto!
> 
> View attachment 19360



That's awesome. I recognize several of those guys.

I'd be training there if I were you


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

Argus said:


> That's awesome. I recognize several of those guys.
> 
> I'd be training there if I were you



for a while i was seriously thinking about it. i have done research and maybe one or two schools in the United States have that unique combo of martial arts. and you get to train in all five martial arts for a combined price of 180$. The thing is, I live like an hour from Tucker, and I can't drive long distances due to my disability, so i don't know how i'd get to and from there. secondly, learning five different martial arts is overwhelming to me. I'm having enough trouble with one...TKD. but yeah i was seriously thinking about moving to that area at one point a while back but yeah i never did. i like my TKD class a lot, despite the fact that Grandmaster Chung can be a temperamental dick sometimes... but yeah i have seen one of my instructors in action, and his kicks were amazing. so at some point i decided that, for now at least, i'm gonna stick with TKD, which is just as formidable as any other martial art in my opinion.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> for a while i was seriously thinking about it. i have done research and maybe one or two schools in the United States have that unique combo of martial arts. and you get to train in all five martial arts for a combined price of 180$. The thing is, I live like an hour from Tucker, and I can't drive long distances due to my disability, so i don't know how i'd get to and from there. secondly, learning five different martial arts is overwhelming to me. I'm having enough trouble with one...TKD. but yeah i was seriously thinking about moving to that area at one point a while back but yeah i never did. i like my TKD class a lot, despite the fact that Grandmaster Chung can be a temperamental dick sometimes... but yeah i have seen one of my instructors in action, and his kicks were amazing. so at some point i decided that, for now at least, i'm gonna stick with TKD, which is just as formidable as any other martial art in my opinion.



another reason i didn't teach this school is that i don't plan on staying in the ATL metro area for more than another year or two... and nowhere else would i be able to continue training with that combo of martial arts. Taekwondo, on the other hand, is the most popular martial art in the world. granted not all Dojangs are high quality, but one of the places i'm looking at moving back to is Zhuhai (i lived there 10 years ago) and there is a TKD school there that looks great


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## Argus (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> one more thing... this differs depending on where you are, but I live in Atlanta. now in Atlanta, if someone messes with you, it probably means you're in the hood. and if you're in the hood, damn good chance dude be  packin heat. that is where Krav Maga would really come in handy. if you can close the distance between you and him, *you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him*. Most other martial arts, someone pulls a gun on you, whatcha gonna do?



Just caught this.

Keep in mind the goal of self defense versus purely combative application. If you shoot someone pointing a gun at you, you can claim self defense. If you disarm someone pointing a gun at you, you can still claim self defense. If you disarm someone and then shoot them, you cannot claim self defense unless they drew another weapon or attempted to regain control of the one you took from them -- because at that point, you're going from disarming a threat, to shooting an unarmed man who no longer has the capacity and will to harm you.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

Argus said:


> Just caught this.
> 
> Keep in mind the goal of self defense versus purely combative application. If you shoot someone pointing a gun at you, you can claim self defense. If you disarm someone pointing a gun at you, you can still claim self defense. If you disarm someone and then shoot them, you cannot claim self defense unless they drew another weapon or attempted to regain control of the one you took from them -- because at that point, you're going from disarming a threat, to shooting an unarmed man who no longer has the capacity and will to harm you.



i didn't mean to imply that once you've disarmed him that you are required to shoot him back. if he surrenders, problem solved. If he is strung out on crack and keeps blindly coming at you (keep in mind we're talking about probably being in the hood) you can defend yourself using martial arts at this point as he no longer has a gun. you can even use the gun as a blunt weapon if you want. but yeah, on the flip side of the coin, many police officers have died because they tried to avoid using the gun, so the general consensus is to shoot if at all necessary. if some drunk starts talking **** but does not have a weapon, then of course you don't need to use a gun, but if it comes to life or death, the Krav Maga experts will tell you to shoot.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him



Often times Krav Maga practitioners will talk about using the weapon you have taken from your attacker as a blunt instrument. that is more like what i meant


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## Argus (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> Often times Krav Maga practitioners will talk about using the weapon you have taken from your attacker as a blunt instrument. that is more like what i meant



Right. Well, at that point you need to think about weapon retention, though. If he's attempting to grab and regain control of the weapon, then it's still lethal force situation. So, generally shooting would be justified in that context.


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

Argus said:


> Right. Well, at that point you need to think about weapon retention, though. If he's attempting to grab and regain control of the weapon, then it's still lethal force situation. So, generally shooting would be justified in that context.



well, i guess there are a few things you could do in that situation. one is to just throw the weapon off to the side somewhere and then dispatch him before he can run after it. If you are an expert in Krav Maga and he is not, then he probably isn't gonna be very successful in regaining control of the weapon. you could fight dirty and knee him in the balls but making sure his finger is nowhere near the trigger... I'll always remember Jet Li in Lethal Weapon 4 where Mel Gibson and Danny Glover had guns to Jet Li's head and he dismantled both of their guns in like a fraction of a second. Seeing Jet Li in that movie was one of the things that inspired me to take up martial arts... but most of us are not as fast as Jet Li.


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## Argus (Jul 3, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> I'll always remember Jet Li in Lethal Weapon 4 where Mel Gibson and Danny Glover had guns to Jet Li's head and he dismantled both of their guns in like a fraction of a second. Seeing Jet Li in that movie was one of the things that inspired me to take up martial arts... but most of us are not as fast as Jet Li.



Well, don't feel bad. It's a lot easier to be as fast as Jet Li and accomplish unlikely martial feats when everything is scripted and choreographed 

I was advocating the simple approach of "if he's going after the weapon you just took from him, shoot him."

Skill in the real world usually takes the form of accomplishing the appropriate goal in the least complicated, most direct, efficient, and reliable way available.

But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking to movies for inspiration, of course! That's what they're made for


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 3, 2015)

Argus said:


> Well, don't feel bad. It's a lot easier to be as fast as Jet Li and accomplish unlikely martial feats when everything is scripted and choreographed
> 
> I was advocating the simple approach of "if he's going after the weapon you just took from him, shoot him."
> 
> ...



i mean if someone pulls a gun on you from a distance, you're screwed. I actually posted a thread last night about Jet Li... he has real life credentials. i actually took Shaolin Kung Fu for a while a long time ago for two reasons... i wanted to be like a Shaolin Monk and I wanted to be like Jet Li.  however, i didn't really care for that approach to martial arts... not saying it is bad, just not for me. but yeah the more i think about it if you include a gun in martial arts then there is the dominant martial art right there!


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## qianfeng (Jul 5, 2015)

Yellow bamboo is the greatest martial art of ALL TIME. 





Other than yellow bamboo i ould say the eighteen dragon slaying palms are very good


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## sinthetik_mistik (Jul 5, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Yellow bamboo is the greatest martial art of ALL TIME.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think Superman is the greatest martial artist of all time


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## Tez3 (Jul 5, 2015)

Sorry but the ultimate martial art is Ecky Thump


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## marques (Jul 5, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> ...which martial art, overall and in every way, is the greatest martial art ever? not just for one situation, but overall in all situations and in all ways... which martial art is superior to all others?



That martial art(s) would take 1000 years to learn. And we want everything for tomorrow.

Recently I'm thinking about... combat sports as the best 'martial arts'. CS are very limited in many ways and with an entertainment purpose... But ,at least, there are recent proofs and statistics. MA are often more mixed with beliefs, myths, fantasies and too much collaborative 'opponents' than facts.

And finally one martial art name means nothing. There is the same name to very distinct levels of instruction, interpretations, influences, ways of training, aims and many others...


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## marques (Jul 5, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> is MMA considered a single martial art or a combination of martial arts?



It is a combat sport. Where is the doubt?!


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## drop bear (Jul 5, 2015)

marques said:


> It is a combat sport. Where is the doubt?!



There is a whole thread on it.

It depends on where you learn it. So you could go to a mma gym. And learn mma. Or to a kung fu gym that might also teach bjj and fight mma.

So it is kind of both a combat sport or rule set and or a martial art.


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## marques (Jul 5, 2015)

drop bear said:


> There is a whole thread on it.
> It depends on where you learn it. So you could go to a mma gym. And learn mma. Or to a kung fu gym that might also teach bjj and fight mma.
> So it is kind of both a combat sport or rule set and or a martial art.


Interesting comment. I thought all MMA is trained under the same rules. So same sport, independently of the way (styles, méthodes, techniques...) used.
In my point of view, MA is without rules. And SD under civil law..


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## Tez3 (Jul 5, 2015)

marques said:


> Interesting comment. I thought all MMA is trained under the same rules



MMA is not trained under any 'rules'. You train what you need to compete successfully, basically what works for you.
As for fighting under rules, in the UK there is no governing body for MMA so any promoter can make up whatever rules he wants, in practice though we all tend to keep to the same rules with slight variations according to promoter's and fighter's preferences. It's possible to ask for no heel hooks for example or no neck cranks if you wish. often the rules vary on semi pro and amateur fights over whether head shots are allowed or just standing.


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## zzj (Jul 5, 2015)

qianfeng said:


> Other than yellow bamboo i ould say the eighteen dragon slaying palms are very good



This blows yellow bamboo out of the water, too bad its been lost for ages...

anyway that's like the worst qiao/xiaofeng ever


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## qianfeng (Jul 5, 2015)

zzj said:


> This blows yellow bamboo out of the water, too bad its been lost for ages...
> 
> anyway that's like the worst qiao/xiaofeng ever



Yeah way too skinny


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## Hanzou (Jul 6, 2015)




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## drop bear (Jul 6, 2015)

marques said:


> Interesting comment. I thought all MMA is trained under the same rules. So same sport, independently of the way (styles, méthodes, techniques...) used.
> In my point of view, MA is without rules. And SD under civil law..



You are always going to have rules. Doesn't matter what martial art you do. 

You may tell people to ignore some of those rules in a life or death situation.


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## Tez3 (Jul 6, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You are always going to have rules. Doesn't matter what martial art you do.
> 
> You may tell people to ignore some of those rules in a life or death situation.




I don't think he meant rules as in law/instruction type rules but rather that all MMA was trained  in the same method that TKD is. Set moves etc.


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## marques (Jul 9, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You are always going to have rules. Doesn't matter what martial art you do.


To be more clear, by no rules I mean (for example)... No one says me who I should attack or defend in sparring / randori! Specially when what I do is slow, safe and more effective than the "standard" for them. No stupid technical restrictions for martial arts *free* sparring! They do it to have a chance, in training. But it is... sport.
(my opinions usually are given by heart, not a _true_ resulting of hours of reflexion. So any discussion is great to refine and improve my concepts and arguments!)


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## Buka (Jul 9, 2015)

As to the original post......which is better, a shoe, boot or sneaker, and of course, what is the the best size? And color?

I reckon Martial Arts be like that, too. Some fit you, some fit me and some fit that guy over there.


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## drop bear (Jul 9, 2015)

marques said:


> To be more clear, by no rules I mean (for example)... No one says me who I should attack or defend in sparring / randori! Specially when what I do is slow, safe and more effective than the "standard" for them. No stupid technical restrictions for martial arts *free* sparring! They do it to have a chance, in training. But it is... sport.
> (my opinions usually are given by heart, not a _true_ resulting of hours of reflexion. So any discussion is great to refine and improve my concepts and arguments!)



Yeah it is a misconception that is common. You train with different rules. Not no rules.

And on that point. I was rolling with a guy the other day who swung off a rope to pass guard.


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## Buka (Jul 10, 2015)

Hanzou said:


>



That was some real nice eye candy right there. Of course being a striker, the Muay Thai around the second minute had me cheering. Watched it a bunch, good stuff.


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## marques (Jul 10, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Yeah it is a misconception that is common. You train with different rules. Not no rules.


Yes, of course I *train* with rules (not enough nowadays...). But the Martial Art Itself should not put arbitrary restrictions on the artist. If it works, forget the syllabus!!  (my opinion, but not seem often; martial sports?) Again, in my point of view, the only 'rules' I understand in MA are related with pedagogy and safety.


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## Balrog (Jul 23, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> As we all know, there are a ton of martial arts out there. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and vary greatly in how they work. Here is my question, in your opinion, which martial art, overall and in every way, is the greatest martial art ever? not just for one situation, but overall in all situations and in all ways... which martial art is superior to all others?


The answer to that is actually quite simple.  It's the one that you are the most comfortable with and most proficient in.


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## donald1 (Jul 24, 2015)

sinthetik_mistik said:


> I think Superman is the greatest martial artist of all time



I bet superman dosnt even own even one sword and has probably never practiced ultimate flying tiger-dragon-bear round house kick of death or even randomly for no reason yell hiya

If he does that then just maybe... he could be the best


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## elder999 (Jul 24, 2015)

donald1 said:


> I bet superman dosnt even own even one sword and has probably never practiced ultimate flying tiger-dragon-bear round house kick of death or even randomly for no reason yell hiya
> 
> If he does that then just maybe... he could be the best



Ah-ah-ahh! 

Members here who've been reading since they were three (like me!) and reading comic books all that time (like me!!) can easily remember the Sword of Superman.
(Wasn't even that long ago.....)

The Sword of Superman - VS Battles Wiki


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## Balrog (Aug 11, 2015)

All kidding aside  ...... this is by far the ultimate fighting style ever developed.  Scroll down and especially read the Defense Against Armed Assailants section.  You'll understand.
The Magician s Network Self-Defense System The Art of Destruction


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## elder999 (Aug 11, 2015)

End of discussion.


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