# considering Kung Fu....cool video attached



## Coker101 (Jan 1, 2014)

I really enjoyed this short video of a speed test between a snake and a young woman using a snake style kung fu.

Really got me to thinking about Kung Fu and the stigma it carries in regards to "real" or lack of real combat.  It's been called nothing but a dance and completly unrealistic.  After looking at a bunch of videos on youtube I see kung fu is pretty damn brutal and though it might look really fluent and dance like it seems to me that it could be devistating to an opponent. 

Really considering training in Kung Fu now.


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## clfsean (Jan 1, 2014)

I've seen that video. Personal opinion is it's crap. 

These are examples of "kung fu" put to it... 

This is San Da. This is the "fighting" aspect of CMA's if you will, in an organized fashion. This is where you find out if what you do works or no.






This is Chen Taiji.

[video=youtube_share;oNoDu68D1rg]http://youtu.be/oNoDu68D1rg[/video]

Baji... 

[video=youtube_share;IP9M9zO-nJg]http://youtu.be/IP9M9zO-nJg[/video]

TCMA tied directly in San Da

[video=youtube_share;5TuDitywcmk]http://youtu.be/5TuDitywcmk[/video]


Make sure you take your time & find the right school & the right teacher.


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## Coker101 (Jan 1, 2014)

Can't say I agree 100%.  You seen many fights on the street that look like those?

Chances are the guy you're getting into it with won't be some trained MMA fighter.  Not to mention these guys are in a controled situation not fighting for their lives.  They are not looking to break a bone, take a crotch shot or take someones eye out.  Most of these kinds of fights turn into some kind of kick boxing bjj sport.  Its just not the same thing.  Not that they are not good fighters just that there are limits and rules here..as well as gloves and a padded floor.

Just my opinion...


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## clfsean (Jan 2, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> Can't say I agree 100%.  You seen many fights on the street that look like those?
> 
> Chances are the guy you're getting into it with won't be some trained MMA fighter.  Not to mention these guys are in a controled situation not fighting for their lives.  They are not looking to break a bone, take a crotch shot or take someones eye out.  Most of these kinds of fights turn into some kind of kick boxing bjj sport.  Its just not the same thing.  Not that they are not good fighters just that there are limits and rules here..as well as gloves and a padded floor.
> 
> Just my opinion...



Neither will a poke to the eyes trying to be a snake. 

The San da clips were to illustrate the ugliness of fighting with CMAs. Not the Shaw Brothers type of stuff. When apply what you have learned, it changes. It doesn't look good per se. Besides that in my experience, one of the major ideas behind CMAs is to put somebody on the ground... hard... with finality in mind. 

Don't confuse what looks cool & nice with how it really works or what it looks like when it works.


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

clfsean said:


> Neither will a poke to the eyes trying to be a snake.
> 
> The San da clips were to illustrate the ugliness of fighting with CMAs. Not the Shaw Brothers type of stuff. When apply what you have learned, it changes. It doesn't look good per se. Besides that in my experience, one of the major ideas behind CMAs is to put somebody on the ground... hard... with finality in mind.
> 
> Don't confuse what looks cool & nice with how it really works or what it looks like when it works.



I must have done a poor job of making my original point....posting from a cell phone can sometimes be a pain in the butt.

Anyway, I believe we are saying the same thing.  What I was originally saying or trying to say anyway, was that while Kung Fu looked pretty (movies/forms/whatever) it has a very real application to it as well.  That in combat reality it's not pretty but a nasty art in a lot of way.  Nasty being brutal and what some might call cheap. But like I said when it's about survival anything goes.

I understand your point but believe me I know the difference between what looks cool and what works or the reality of it all.  The reason I liked that video I posted was because it showed speed and that she went right for the eye.  IF you could strike someone in the eye that quickly at the beginning of a fight it could at the very least cause a good bit of tearing and would probably hamper is abilities.  That had nothing at all to do with how it looked but more about how I thought it could effect your opponent in real life.

I watched a lot of other videos as well that showed the ideas behind the movements.  They seemed pretty combat oriented to me and not about looking cool.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2014)

First Kung Fu is a generic term (although it is a bad translation) meaning Chinese Martial Arts, the proper word is Wushu and the proper translation of Kung Fu is "hard work" not martial arts

Here is a partial list of Chinese Marital Arts

Second it is not every pretty in a fight and if you train things like Baji (one of the videos clfsean posted) it is hard and painful training, it is rarely pretty but it is damn effective.

I trained a lot of Xingyiquan, also not pretty and the training is hard. painful and boring but if you do it right you will be able to move very fast and hit like a truck.

There is a groin punch in the Yang Taijiquan long form as well as qinna and the breaking of bones (think elbow). Xingyiquan in one of the applications of Piquan will break a neck. 

This stuff is trained properly and done correctly is not pretty and can be damn dangerous. However most of what is seen is the modern wushu stuff which is pretty to watch, requires a lot of athletic ability and stamina but has very little real world applications as a matter of fact many who train modern wushu also train sanshou so they can actually fight.


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## clfsean (Jan 2, 2014)

Gotcha.


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## clfsean (Jan 2, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Chinese Marital Arts



Mar*ital* arts?? Dude... unless it's all sorts of hot little wimmins running around & doing naughty things... not interested.


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> First Kung Fu is a generic term (although it is a bad translation) meaning Chinese Martial Arts, the proper word is Wushu and the proper translation of Kung Fu is "hard work" not martial arts
> 
> Here is a partial list of Chinese Marital Arts
> 
> ...



There is a Wushu place close to me, but I had heard that the modern Wushu held very little real combat application so I never considered it an option.  I guess athletic ability, flexibility and stamina are good but it didn't sound like what I was looking for.


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## K-man (Jan 2, 2014)

Striking to the eyes is not only Wushu. It is in all RB Martial Arts as the eye is a legitimate target either as a temporary disabling strike or as a distraction that elicits a flinch response. It is similar to the jab in boxing, a strike in its own right or a feint.

By all means consider Kung Fu but as *clfsean* said, look at it for the right reasons. The lady in the video was a Wushu champion. That is sport based form and most times when competition is involved in the martial arts, flashy techniques become the norm to impress the judges. 
:asian:


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## clfsean (Jan 2, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> There is a Wushu place close to me, but I had heard that the modern Wushu held very little real combat application so I never considered it an option.  I guess athletic ability, flexibility and stamina are good but it didn't sound like what I was looking for.



Website? Any info?


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

clfsean said:


> Website? Any info?



http://martialartsfun.com/


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

The only other Kung Fu option for me would be:

http://www.cranewing.com/


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## Flying Crane (Jan 2, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> http://martialartsfun.com/



I don't feel good about this one.  No info on who the teachers are, what their backgrounds are, specifically what methods they are teaching, what their lineage is, whom they studied under, etc.  That's all pretty basic info and ought to be included on a website that's meant to attract students.  

The Taiji section mentions that they teach "all" of the major family methods of taiji.  I can pretty much guarantee that none of them will be any good, if that's true.  It's just not feasible to try and train and teach all taiji methods.  Each method is a system of its own and requires serious training.  Trying to do them all is just too much and won't get you anywhere.

There's no real info on specifically what traditional method of kung fu they are teaching.  nothing.

There's just a lot of very generic info and nothing specific in this website.  If it was me looking for a school, I'd skip this one.  Well,  I might stop by and observe a class but my gut would be telling me this isn't going to end well.


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## clfsean (Jan 2, 2014)

I sent my buddy in Houston a message. I'll get back to you when he gets back to me.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 2, 2014)

Many years ago, I met a snake style guy. A Kung Fu magazine writer had interview on him. When he told the Kung Fu magazine writer that the snake style has 120 forms, I lost my confidence on him.


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't feel good about this one.  No info on who the teachers are, what their backgrounds are, specifically what methods they are teaching, what their lineage is, whom they studied under, etc.  That's all pretty basic info and ought to be included on a website that's meant to attract students.
> 
> The Taiji section mentions that they teach "all" of the major family methods of taiji.  I can pretty much guarantee that none of them will be any good, if that's true.  It's just not feasible to try and train and teach all taiji methods.  Each method is a system of its own and requires serious training.  Trying to do them all is just too much and won't get you anywhere.
> 
> ...



Yeah pretty much wrote this off a while back.  Lack of info and negativity towards Wushu as a combat art turned me away from this one.


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## colemcm (Jan 2, 2014)

I'd recommend that you avoid getting hung up on the idea of training a specific style of MA. Find a teacher who is competent, qualified, and that you trust. That's a lot more important than style, in my opinion. 

Also, keep your ears open; not all teachers advertise in the yellow pages.


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

colemcm said:


> I'd recommend that you avoid getting hung up on the idea of training a specific style of MA. Find a teacher who is competent, qualified, and that you trust. That's a lot more important than style, in my opinion.
> 
> Also, keep your ears open; not all teachers advertise in the yellow pages.



I agree but as far as CMA I have few options.  Just from what I have seen this far my best option is http://www.cranewing.com/chrisscott.html


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 2, 2014)

clfsean said:


> Mar*ital* arts?? Dude... unless it's all sorts of hot little wimmins running around & doing naughty things... not interested.



Then don't look


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## Coker101 (Jan 2, 2014)

If I could go anywhere it would be the Houston Budokan.  It's obviously Japanese MA but he's a fantastic teacher and very knowledgeable.  The problem is he's on the opposite side of town from me.  I did very much enjoy going there though.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 5, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> There is a Wushu place close to me, but I had heard that the modern Wushu held very little real combat application so I never considered it an option.  I guess athletic ability, flexibility and stamina are good but it didn't sound like what I was looking for.



Depends on the goal of the student and the ability of the teacher. I am of the personal opinion that any art if applied correctly can add to your fighting ability. However some people, I believe, get into the martial arts, for the art aspect. Never having a desire to fight and focus on demos. This is fine, everyone does it for there own reason. However, it's a MARTIAL art and if done correctly and with proper training, and even then proper focus of the student and the killer instinct to apply it...well then it can be very effective. 

So I think most of it will be about weather the teacher understand the techniques and can train them properly with there use and the if the student can grasp what they are teaching. 

I think a lot of the bad rep for wushu comes from alot of demo teams focusing on the athleticism and showmanship. From what I understand of China (and I'm by no means an expert), the government snuff out alot of potential rebels and possible threats to power. So any large group training in military like arts, I doubt would last long. That just based upon what I've read, watched and heard from others.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 5, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> If I could go anywhere it would be the Houston Budokan.  It's obviously Japanese MA but he's a fantastic teacher and very knowledgeable.  The problem is he's on the opposite side of town from me.  I did very much enjoy going there though.



How far is it to get there?
How badly do you want to learn from him?
Is moving an option?

There are always ways to work with things like this if you find a really really good instructor. It comes down to choice and availability. best of luck


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## Coker101 (Jan 5, 2014)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> How far is it to get there?
> How badly do you want to learn from him?
> Is moving an option?
> 
> There are always ways to work with things like this if you find a really really good instructor. It comes down to choice and availability. best of luck



Moving is in no way an option....we recently looked into it.  But we have been here for 6 months and would lose $$ if we moved right now.

That said I found a good Aikido school and am considering it now.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 5, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> Moving is in no way an option....we recently looked into it.  But we have been here for 6 months and would lose $$ if we moved right now.
> 
> That said I found a good Aikido school and am considering it now.



Understandable. Moving is not an option for me either. Aikido seems like a nice system from the little I've seen of it. I hope you find what your looking for


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## Coker101 (Jan 5, 2014)

BlazeLeeDragon said:


> Understandable. Moving is not an option for me either. _*Aikido seems like a nice system*_ from the little I've seen of it. I hope you find what your looking for





This is my only reservation....is it too nice and not aggressive enough to be used.


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## clfsean (Jan 5, 2014)

Try this place... 

http://www.chuskungfu.sifuchu.com/

http://houston.txkungfu.com/

http://www.ckfa.com/branches.shtml


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## Coker101 (Jan 5, 2014)

clfsean said:


> Try this place...
> 
> http://www.chuskungfu.sifuchu.com/
> 
> ...



All of those are on the West side of Houston near China town....I'm on the south east side of Houston...well I'm in Galveston really which is about an hour and a half from Houston but I work in the clear lake area which is about 45 minutes from Houston....either way Chin Town is unfortunately too far from home.


Thank you for the tips though it's appreciated.


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## colemcm (Jan 5, 2014)

The first art I ever trained in was Aikido. How passive it is has more to do with the individual dojo, than the art as a whole. Some sensei are more realistic in their approach, while others emphasize the ritualistic/spiritual aspect. Check out a few dojos and see what you think. Most Aikido people are very friendly and willing to answer questions.


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## Coker101 (Jan 5, 2014)

colemcm said:


> The first art I ever trained in was Aikido. How passive it is has more to do with the individual dojo, than the art as a whole. Some sensei are more realistic in their approach, while others emphasize the ritualistic/spiritual aspect. Check out a few dojos and see what you think. Most Aikido people are very friendly and willing to answer questions.



Yeah I visited the dojo here in Galveston and loved just watching it.  The instructor seemed very knowledgeable and did lean more to the combat side of things....even mentioning that "you might need to throw in a kick in a real world situation".  He then showed several ways of doing the same technique depending on how badly you were wanting to end combat or hurt your opponent.  I was happy to hear him say that...I'm all about the spiritual side but combat is combat. 

This is the only Aikido dojo on the island I live on....though there is one close to work.  But I'm very much considering this place as where I will train.


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## colemcm (Jan 6, 2014)

Even if you don't stick with it and move on to another art, ukemi is a great skill to have.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 6, 2014)

Coker101 said:


> This is my only reservation....is it too nice and not aggressive enough to be used.



I wouldn't say that...my sifu use to take aikido and he was showing me these drills he calls "entering" were you move inside your opponent's defense and snap them to the ground. One method was against a sword and the other if they attack. Seemed pretty brutally effective of course this was only one or two moves since it was just a comparison to some of the Pakua stuff we were doing.


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## Blaze Dragon (Jan 6, 2014)

colemcm said:


> Even if you don't stick with it and move on to another art, ukemi is a great skill to have.



I have to agree with this, I have a friend of mine who use to do Budo Taijutsu and he was teaching me taihenjutsu. Ukemi and kaiten movements have proved very useful when we spar. Any time I uproot him, if he does fall he's back on his feet.


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## cloud dancing (Jan 13, 2014)

Hello Xue,most of practise is boring unless you'reable to be in love with your breath.then time stops and it's all about the breathIn I Ching KUNG FU tanslates as INNER TRUTH" POWER of inner truth effects even pigs and fishes."Transforms all it touches.the moves in tai chi will all cause death when level of inner force reaches max.groin strike in short yang.Also elbow break.playing the guitar.Seems repetition is necessary for effective useagge of moves.trying to reach 2 hrs for double palm/infinite circle /double 12.Chen ssu chen /used to do hour per day.Started to have fire in right leg.with help it'll return to 4 hrs daily.then chi reaches throughout body.changes happen.Quickly.When first saw Master Li teaching tai-chi/thought it was a dance class.Now it's all dance for me.When chi moves me and I ahve no control /that's when practise is strange and really divine.Looking to forum for inspiration to keep up my practise.lighthouse in mtns needs fuel to shine.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 13, 2014)

cloud dancing said:


> Hello Xue,most of practise is boring unless you'reable to be in love with your breath.then time stops and it's all about the breathIn I Ching KUNG FU tanslates as INNER TRUTH" POWER of inner truth effects even pigs and fishes."Transforms all it touches.the moves in tai chi will all cause death when level of inner force reaches max.groin strike in short yang.Also elbow break.playing the guitar.Seems repetition is necessary for effective useagge of moves.trying to reach 2 hrs for double palm/infinite circle /double 12.Chen ssu chen /used to do hour per day.Started to have fire in right leg.with help it'll return to 4 hrs daily.then chi reaches throughout body.changes happen.Quickly.When first saw Master Li teaching tai-chi/thought it was a dance class.Now it's all dance for me.When chi moves me and I ahve no control /that's when practise is strange and really divine.Looking to forum for inspiration to keep up my practise.lighthouse in mtns needs fuel to shine.



I mean no offense but that was hard to follow.

First, all the moves in taiji will not cause death, know a lot of moves that break things and cause pain when applied though

And if you have no control of your Qi you are not doing taijiquanyi, qi, li. 

And taiji done properly is not a dance


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