# Weight training and kenpo



## brianhunter (Jul 15, 2002)

I have been a  weight lifter a lot longer then I was in Kenpo, I started at about 14 due to football, wrestling etc....I have layed off the weights for kenpo a bit, but lately I have been drawn back in to it.  I feel alot of benefits from it the best being just improving general health and strength I guess.

My question is how many impliment weight training into their life/kenpo programs and if so how much and what? I do low reps high weight because I am working on mass and strength mostly. I am curious as to what everyone else is doing.

Brian


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## ikenpo (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> * I feel alot of benefits from it the best being just improving general health and strength I guess.
> 
> ...



Great Question,

I do, but not as much as I'd like to. I normally do curls with the bar and dumb bells, some deltoid work, I have one of those sort of square weight rack deals that has a good attachment for pull downs so I work the triceps. Other than that I have a belt-n-strap attachment from Life Line USA that lets me run in place with resistance (credit to Erik Paulson for having it on his Vale Tudo conditioning video). For sport specific exercises I use weighted gloves from Ringside and a weighted vest from Ringside. I never put weights on my ankles, but I do calf raises.  I also have some inversion boots, but don't use them as much as I should.

I can only lift once or twice a week if I'm lucky. Then it's med/low weights with higher reps. I'd rather lose than put on any weight, remember I'm from Houston the fattest city in the county. I hear KC is number two, but who pays attention to second best...

jb:asian:


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## tarabos (Jul 15, 2002)

i'm on a well layed out lifting schedule balanced with a schedule of static active excersises, all geared more towards building strength, not so much size. but i think most of the kenpoists here will agree, a little more "back-up mass" is a good thing. when that mass is in the form of muscle, it's a real good thing. 

but i don't lift mainly to improve my kenpo, more to keep in good shape, and more importantly, good health. i do a lot of cardio and endurance work as well. keeps me fairly well balanced.

if someone is looking to add weight training to their workout schedule, the most important thing to do is have a plan. it's often best to get some type of literature on weight training so you can understand how, when and why to work different muscle groups, and why you work certain groups together, and certain groups not. believe it or not, men's health magazine has a lot of great workout programs to follow. keep checking there first. and if you don't have a lot of equipment, or a gym you can go to, there are often simple dumble workouts that you can do that can really give you some surprising results. then of course there are the workouts you can do with no weights. ex: hold a close/wide kneel stance for a minute, then build up to a longer time. it's pretty tough the first time you do it.


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## Nightingale (Jul 15, 2002)

I use weight training, low reps high weight.  high reps low weight doesn't do a whole lot but give you a cardio work out if you lift em fast enough...lol...  a lot of women do this because they're afraid of "bulk" but women don't have the hormones to add "bulk" so they're just wasting their lift time.  

you do have to keep in mind that the more bulk you have, the less flexible you usually are, simply because there are more muscle fibers that have to stretch, and large muscles can get in the way of a high kick.


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## Seig (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *
> you do have to keep in mind that the more bulk you have, the less flexible you usually are, simply because there are more muscle fibers that have to stretch, and large muscles can get in the way of a high kick. *


Night et al.
This is not always true.  I am very large and incredibly flexible.  There is nothing wrong with weight training, whatever your program (mass vs cut) as long as you sumplement it with a very good strectching routine.  One thing that a lot of athletes neglect is the need to stretch out before AND after you work out.  Whether it be aerobic or anareobic.


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## tarabos (Jul 15, 2002)

big muscles don't have to mean no flexibility at all. as long as you stretch properly, you should be fine. granted that if you are huge you will lose a small bit of movement in some areas, but those are in certain situations. 

flexibility isn't how lose you are, flexibility is actually strength. Tom Kurz's "Stretching Scientifically" is an excellent book on stretching. it explains in depth the four different types of stretching and really goes in-depth. i don't have a lot of time to go on about this (i'm at work...whoops), but maybe i can discuss more later.


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## Nightingale (Jul 15, 2002)

Its not always true, but it is usually true... for example, who's got more flexibility, a football player or a ballerina?  muscles that are very large get in the way of flexibility, but generally speaking, the more muscle fibers you have, the harder you have to work to keep them flexible.


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## brianhunter (Jul 15, 2002)

I think flexibility has alot to do with the person not just muscle structure. I have seen guys with pot bellys and 4 chins who can kick up past their head. Its how you condition yourself and stretch...We are kinda getting off topic though.....


I want to know what kind of weight training others do and how it has affected their kenpo and what benefits they have gotten from it?? Programs? Routines? etc..


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## Blindside (Jul 16, 2002)

> Nightingale posted: for example, who's got more flexibility, a football player or a ballerina?



Well, ok besides the gender difference there and the completely different training regimens these two atheletes go through you have a point.    Actually if you compare male ballet dancers to male football players (which at least gets us in the same gender) you will find that the ballet dancers are far more flexible.  Some of the strongest guys I have ever met were male ballet dancers, their combination of endurance and overall strength moves are pretty phenomenal, particularly in partner dance.  Actually the same comparison goes for sumo wrestlers and football players, sumo wrestlers are VERY flexible in general, and their build is close to that of an offensive lineman.   Football does not necessarily value being very flexible, it is not an attribute that is trained for.

Lamont


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## Cruentus (Jul 16, 2002)

I was looking into doing some amature body building, or some natural shows at one time. Weight lifting is a big part of my training. I lift about 4 times a week; this allows me to get all of my body parts in w/o overtraining when I train martial arts.

I am an advocate of using weight training as an aid to martial arts training. Just be careful that you don't overtrain, and that you continue to stretch and work on speed.

Have a good day!


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## Nate_Hoopes (Jul 16, 2002)

I've done a bit of weight training, but i go the opposite, low weight high rep, I find that in the later forms that are fairly long that it helps me maintain good movement and snap in my strikes.


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## Klondike93 (Jul 16, 2002)

My biggest problem with lifting weights is finding the time to do so.  How do you fit in the weight lifting with doing Kenpo?

After working 8 hours, then relaxing for about an hour it's off to one of the 2 schools I  go to. One I teach at and the other is the kenpo school I'm going to. There just isn't enough hours in the day to fit in any weight training.  


:asian:


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Jul 16, 2002)

About six weeks ago I decided to get my butt back in shape.  I'm not a Budda Boy by any means, but my cardio sucked, and my weight training was non-existent.  I'm slowly building back into my cardio, but the hardest thing was getting back into the swing of lifting.  

I lift 3 to 4 times a week focusing on different muscle groups each day.  Lately it's only been about 3 days because I just can't force myself to work legs  (squats, leg press, curls, etc..).  Since I'm trying to get back into cardio shape, my legs kinda reject any unwanted excercise.  Anyway,  I've been doing a mixture of certain things just to get an idea of what will work best.  I do high weight (at least for me it is) for 6-8 reps.  I try to hit the muscle groups at as many different angles as possible.  Towards the end of my workout, I'll switch to a lower amount of weight and do as many reps as possible which by that point is only about 10, by that point I've reached muscle failure.  I've found that if I do this last part I work the muscle group through full extension and contraction which is very important.  You don't want to work short range with heavy weights, although you may gain mass alot faster you'll also lose flexibility, plus you increase your chances for an injury (i.e. rotator cuff, knee, although less likely... even a hip injury).  

Lately I've also been working with one of those TKD resistance bands.  You know the one where you velcro one end to your foot and the other to a stationary object, then you do kicks.  I've been using it with a variety of kicking and punching drills.  Your only supposed to have resistance in the last 3-4 inches of the movement.  I've already noticed an increase in my kicking and punching speed.  I can't tell if my power has increased (the heavy bag doesn't say  "owwwww").  While I realize that working on kicks is about as useful as learning to use the sai's in a real fight (don't see to many of those just laying around on the streets anymore),  I figure if I can effortlessly kick someone in the head, then I shouldn't have a problem kicking to the inside/outside of the thigh or knee.

Anyway, that last part was a little off subject.  While I'm no expert I would agree with everyone and say that appropriate stretching is of paramount importance.  Whatever workout regimen you decide to go with, make sure that you work full range of motion and that your working both sides of the muscle grouping  (i.e. quads/hamstrings).   Also you can do abduction and adduction (notice the "B" in the first one) excercises for the legs.  I can't tell you how many friends I've had blow their knees because they weren't working the little mucsles to the inside of their thighs (You know the excercise that looks like your in a birthing chair and squeezing your legs together..... it may look dumb as hell, but try it and see how you feel afterwords). 

Well, I could go on forever but I'll leave it at that.  Hope this was somewhat helpful.  Good luck.


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## tarabos (Jul 16, 2002)

what are you doing relaxing for an hour klondike? 

pretty good point to bring up though...time is one of a martial artists worst enemies...money can be a ***** too.

I do my cardio workouts before work in the morning. Is it hard? you better believe it's hard getting up that early, but doing cardio in the morning also has its benefits. you tend to burn a little more fat in the a.m. (also if you have a cup of coffee before running or something similar, you get a little fat burning boost).

the bruce lee type workouts are always a possiblity, the old reading a book in one hand and curling a dumbell in the other is a classic one. maybe a bit of overkill there though. now i don't have kids, so my schedule is more free than someone who does, but i still have to plan everything out that's fitness related. diet, weight training, kenpo/martial arts, cardio...i'd get nowhere without that notebook that keeps me organized. it just depends on how many sacrifices you want to make, and how much free time you want to lose.


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## AvPKenpo (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *My biggest problem with lifting weights is finding the time to do so.  How do you fit in the weight lifting with doing Kenpo?
> 
> ...



Currently I lift in the mornings before I go to work.
Monday-  Lift 6:30am(usually 30-40 minutes) then shower eat and go to work.
Tuesday- Lift 6:30am(usually 30-40 minutes) shower, eat, work till 6 go to class from 6:30pm to 9:00p.m.
Wensday-class 7:00-9:30
Thursday-class 6:30-9:00
Friday Lift 6:30am(30-40 min) shower, eat go to work.
Saturday- lift 6:30am(30-40min)
Sunday-free day

Its a great workout for me.  Gets the blood pumping in the morning,  and I am ready to work.

Michael


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## satans.barber (Jul 16, 2002)

I just have a dumbell with 20Kg on it, I try and do 30 normal reps on a morning with it and 30 at night, just helps to keep my arms firm.

I've never had any formal advice though so what I'm doing could be complete rubbish, I don't know!

Ian.


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## tarabos (Jul 16, 2002)

maybe you want advice..maybe you don't. you seem pretty contempt with you routine. but if you really are looking for something more, there is one place you should start looking, with your instructor.he or she isn't just there to give you advice with your kenpo or what have you, they should be able to advise you on a variety of things, be it weights, or maybe cardio. and if they can't help you, it's likely that they know someone that can give you some good advice or a nice workout to do.


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## Nightingale (Jul 16, 2002)

If you really want to get the most out of your workout, spring for a couple of sessions with a personal trainer. It may sound like a lot of money for a little benefit, but if you have a good trainer, it makes a HUGE difference.  If you're going to take the time to weight train, make sure you do it right.  Its very, very easy to make mistakes when you're lifting free weights (dumbells)  and also easy to make mistakes on weight machines if you don't know how to use them. Better safe than sorry.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 17, 2002)

your training with some sort of weight training.  Some do more .....some do less..... tailor a program to fit your time and commitment budget.  Anything helps.

:asian:


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## Self_Destruct (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *Its not always true, but it is usually true... for example, who's got more flexibility, a football player or a ballerina?  muscles that are very large get in the way of flexibility, but generally speaking, the more muscle fibers you have, the harder you have to work to keep them flexible. *




Not true at all.  Of course a ballerina is more flexible than a football player.  They stretch way more as part of their training.  And they generally start at a very young age.  Ever see a male ballet dancer or gymnasts legs...they're friggin' huge like tree trunks.  Bigger than most football players legs.  Just look at Jean Claude VanDam.  How do you think he got his flexibility and kicking skills.  It wasn't Martial Arts training because he had virtually none at the start of his career.  He was a ballet dancer.  Muscle size and flexibility are independent of  each other.  And also, weight training doesn't increase the number of muscle fibers, it just enlarges them.  

Anyone looking for a good weight training program to put on a little "back up mass" should check out www.ast-ss.com and click on the MAX-OT icon.  It's a 12 week program that really works.


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## Kalicombat (Jul 19, 2002)

I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one.  For my money and time, Free weights are the only way to go. I have been powerlifting since high school, and except for some lapses in time, when I ballooned to a pretty hefty weight, I have stayed after it. I started back in the gym about 15 months ago after a two year hiatus, or lazy spell, which ever, and while I had lost alot of strength, it has all come back. I am almost back to my personal records on bench and squat, and have blown my old PR away on deadlift. All the while losing close to 250 pounds of fat. Not a bad exchange. I have tried the SOLOFLEX, junk; Nautilus machines, not enough weight; and even worked out on a friends newly aquired BowFlex, way too expensive, and not even close to actual poundages that they claim. 
   There are oodles and oodles of workouts out there on the net, you can find something that will fit your needs. If you need any help, feel free to email me and I can recommend a basic strengthening program, or a BALLS-to-THE-WALLS power based program. 

Gary Catherman, kenpoist.


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## RCastillo (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Night et al.
> This is not always true.  I am very large and incredibly flexible.  There is nothing wrong with weight training, whatever your program (mass vs cut) as long as you sumplement it with a very good strectching routine.  One thing that a lot of athletes neglect is the need to stretch out before AND after you work out.  Whether it be aerobic or anareobic. *



Quit bragging, cause you're not as muscular, and as handsome as I am!:rofl:


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## RCastillo (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kalicombat _
> 
> *I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one.  For my money and time, Free weights are the only way to go. I have been powerlifting since high school, and except for some lapses in time, when I ballooned to a pretty hefty weight, I have stayed after it. I started back in the gym about 15 months ago after a two year hiatus, or lazy spell, which ever, and while I had lost alot of strength, it has all come back. I am almost back to my personal records on bench and squat, and have blown my old PR away on deadlift. All the while losing close to 250 pounds of fat. Not a bad exchange. I have tried the SOLOFLEX, junk; Nautilus machines, not enough weight; and even worked out on a friends newly aquired BowFlex, way too expensive, and not even close to actual poundages that they claim.
> There are oodles and oodles of workouts out there on the net, you can find something that will fit your needs. If you need any help, feel free to email me and I can recommend a basic strengthening program, or a BALLS-to-THE-WALLS power based program.
> ...



Gotta agree with Gary here. there's nothing like them free weights! I'm so strong that I can take on the Goldendragon, and Seig! (Minus the steroids)

On a serious note, Rahter than doing 80% of the weight when working out, go with 65% instead. It'll help from getting worn out!:asian:


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## satans.barber (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Self_Destruct _
> 
> *
> Just look at Jean Claude VanDam... he was a ballet dancer. *



Still is isn't he? :rofl: :rofl: 

Ian.


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## RCastillo (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



HEY!:samurai: 

Don't make fun of Seigs heros!


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## Seig (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Quit bragging, cause you're not as muscular, and as handsome as I am!:rofl: *


Keep acting like Gou and you won't be handsome for long!:roflmao: :moon:


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## Seig (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Challenge accepted:rofl:


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## Seig (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Them's fightin words!:angry: :flammad: :bird: :ticked: :disgust: :rpo:


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## RCastillo (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Challenge accepted:rofl: *



How much? pay Per View rights, gate percentages!


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## RCastillo (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Them's fightin words!:angry: :flammad: :bird: :ticked: :disgust: :rpo: *



Uh, oh, I think I hit a nerve?


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## Seig (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> How much? pay Per View rights, gate percentages! *


You challenged, that means you pay us.


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## Seig (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Uh, oh, I think I hit a nerve? *


Hit me off line, i will give you my views on John Fraude


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## RCastillo (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> You challenged, that means you pay us. *



What's this "US" thing?

You mean, it's a two on one?


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## Seig (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Did you not say


> I'm so strong that I can take on the Goldendragon, and Seig!


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

Looks like you wrote a check that Corpus Bank of Ricardo can't cash........ :rofl:


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## RCastillo (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Looks like you wrote a check that Corpus Bank of Ricardo can't cash........ :rofl: *



Check the bank statement again! The money is there!(remember FDIC):rofl:


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## RCastillo (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _



Yes, But I ain't paying off two certified "Nuts!":rofl:


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## Seig (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Check the bank statement again! The money is there!(remember FDIC):rofl: *


Yeah, he's right, I checked!  Found Debilitated Insures Claim!


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## RCastillo (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Yeah, he's right, I checked!  Found Debilitated Insures Claim! *



And quite legit!:rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _*
> Yes, But I ain't paying off two certified "Nuts!"
> *



Then we will just misplace/lose our certification!

You ain't getting outta this one Mister!!


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## Seig (Jul 25, 2002)

It has been implied, suggested, and sworn to, but never certified.  I'm still in.


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## RCastillo (Jul 25, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *It has been implied, suggested, and sworn to, but never certified.  I'm still in. *



I've changed my mind. The challenge is OFF the table, as negotiations have broken down.


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