# Sick Bastards !



## Mike Clarke (May 6, 2003)

Whoever let the 'Axis of Evil World Tour' add run on this site has no sense of taste at all. Is there nothing Americans won't do to make a 'Buck' ?

It was the same when the World Trade Center was hit. Bloody Tee-shirts on sale within days. 

Get a grip America. Either act like grown ups and show some respect to those who died, or shut the f**k up about being picked on by those nasty men in the middle east who just don't happen to like your way of life.

The shallowness that flows from your shores sometimes is utterly amazing. Kick this kind of enterprise and it's advertising money in the gutter where they belongs. And show some respect for the families of those who lost loved ones fighting for world peace.

One very disapointed member.

Mike.


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## SRyuFighter (May 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> *Whoever let the 'Axis of Evil World Tour' add run on this site has no sense of taste at all. Is there nothing Americans won't do to make a 'Buck' ?
> 
> It was the same when the World Trade Center was hit. Bloody Tee-shirts on sale within days.
> ...


I agree with you Mike to a certain point. I don't like the idea of the T-Shirts either about the World Trade Center. However, this is America! We have the right to do things like this! Although I don't agree with it, I do agree that people should be allowed to do it because that is what America is all about.


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## chufeng (May 6, 2003)

Mike,

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on this post.

When I was in Hawaii, I taught a young Chinese teenager some of the YiLi system. He was already involved in a closed door school in Chinatown and just wanted to supplement his training. After I "spanked" him a few times, his fighting spirit grew and the drills he was doing from his other system improved dramatically.

When I asked him to teach me his Lion Dance and one form from his system, he refused...his Sifu would never allow it, he said.
The closed-door system he was involved in only allowed people with five specific family names...his happened to be Ho.

My initial reaction was, "Hey, I shared with you for no charge...and it helped you out quite a bit."

But after considering it, I actually agreed with him...
The number of McDojos that have popped up across this country is astounding...
...and, although he trusted me, could he trust one of my future students to keep the forms pure?

Sadly, even though his reluctance is understandable, it is that very same provincialism that will eventually lead to the demise of many REAL Chinese Boxing systems...

Thanks for the post...
:asian:
chufeng


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## SRyuFighter (May 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *Mike,
> 
> Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on this post.
> ...


What does that have to do with World Trade center T-Shirts?


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## chufeng (May 6, 2003)

> What does that have to do with World Trade center T-Shirts?



In response to Mike's:


> The shallowness that flows from your shores sometimes is utterly amazing.



The thrust of my point was:



> The number of McDojos that have popped up across this country is astounding



It really does tie in...just think about it a bit...

:asian:
chufeng


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## Bob Hubbard (May 6, 2003)

A couple of points to make here:

1- You are entitled to your opinion.  My question is, did you bother to go look at the site in question? Or, are you just going from the banner ad?


> *From the site itself*
> As the designer of the shirt and it's concept, what are my views?  Who cares?  Did you come here to talk politics or buy a cool shirt?  Well, if you want to know, I didn't come up with the idea to be pro-war or anti-war.  It's just a friendly satire of the concept of Bush taking on the "bad guys" around the world.  In fact, I'm sending him a shirt to show I don't mean any hard feelings.  I got the idea thinking about a shirt I saw years ago called the "Hitler World Tour" shirt, which listed the dates of his conquests, along with countries such as Great Britain and the United States listed as "Cancelled."  I'm not making a political comparison -- it just seemed a neat twist that I could put on the "War on Terrorism."
> 
> As for Afghanistan, Iraq, and the rest, I don't believe that peace happens by accident.  I also don't think the United Nations can really represent the will of the world so long as there is veto power by any one nation, even ours.  Thoreau would demand consensus if HE ran the show, but as nice as that sounds, almost nothing would ever get done.  The alternative is the capacity for minority governments to be outvoted all the time.  The democratic process is a Catch-22, but I don't think I can come up with a better plan.
> ...




2- The shirt is a parody, based on a speach by GWB.  No where on that site, is there any shots taken at the World Trade Center tragedy, nor those men and women fighting over seas.  If anything, I see it as supporting those people. 


3- Making a 'buck'.


> Whoever let the 'Axis of Evil World Tour' add run on this site has no sense of taste at all. Is there nothing Americans won't do to make a 'Buck' ?



 Ok, I am not getting rich off this site...if anything, I'm going broke running it.  I contribute a very large portion of my time to maintaining things here, and almost all of the expences come out of my pocket.  How much?  Around $4-5,000 a year.  

But Bob, you have all these sponsors.  Yup, and alot of them are comped as part of design packages, or hosting signups etc.

This server is costing me $300 / month. Add in to that the $15/year domain name, $85/year for the software..etc.  Its getting expensive.

(Aprox $4k per year minimally, not counting in time, etc). Add in the additional costs of promotion (google advertizing, flyers, cards, teeshirts, mailings to schools, etc) and I'm constantly in the red. 

While I can get cheeper server space, the amount of 'upstream' support is phenominal!. The server costs are of course partially subsidized by my hosting business, but MT is responsible for almost 50% of the 'activity' on this server.

(Over 130 accounts... MT is using the 1/8th of the hard drive, and 33% of the alloted bandwidth.)


Now...I can think of a few questions folks may be thinking:

1- What will he take? A better question is "Who WONT he take?"
- Adult adverts.
- Anything thats against our basic policies.
- Popups/unders - I've already turned down 2 offers in the $2kper month range to allow popups.
- Most non-MA ads. (The Bush ones also done by a friend of mine, so is an exception to the rule.)

2- How can I help offset the costs?
- Buy a shirt. (They are $10 ea now, plus shipping Small-XL available)) (ok, yes the powder blues not 'macho' but you can always give it to your girlfriend.)
- Host with me.  The package and price is competative.
- Sponsor a forum.
- Refer web design or hosting clients to me. If they mention your name, I'll send you a kickback. At least $10 per client.

My biggest concern is making sure that theres always enough $ in my pocket to continue to have MT up, running, and actively maintained.


Simply put folks, you have the right to be offended, but I have to cover my expences somehow.  I asked folks about if they would pay and got a huge "No", not even $5. So, I need to rely on advertisers to offset the expences.

If I thought for 1 minute that the Bush shirts were 'wrong' I wouldn't run the ad, regardless of how much cash they offered.  But I don't, nor does the majority of the staff. (Some don't like it either.  Thats their right.)


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## chufeng (May 6, 2003)

Kaith,

My comments were directed towards the "shallow" comment made by Mike...not against this webBoard...

No...I haven't visited that specific page...and I may not (then again, I might, since you brought it up)...truth is I don't visit any of your advertisers unless I somehow interact with them on the forum...then I want to see what it is they are touting...

But since I am such a loveable guy...I don't get mixed up in a lot of contoversy 

Seriously, I wasn't trying to dis your forum...

:asian:
chufeng


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## Bob Hubbard (May 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *Kaith,
> 
> My comments were directed towards the "shallow" comment made by Mike...not against this webBoard...
> ...



I know.  

I didn't take any offence from any of the comments..just felt I had to 'explain' why...

I wish I could just win that Lotto thing, give the spots away, hire a big staff to really make this place rock, and get off my *** to get out, meet alot of the members and really check out their schools and arts.  

:asian:


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## Eggman (May 6, 2003)

Just like you have the right to voice your opinion about americans, so too do americans have the right to make a buck as long as its legal.  Dont sit too high on your horse, because im sure that if they were your tshirts you would not be complaining.  Just my 2 cents.


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## yilisifu (May 6, 2003)

It's sad that some people would go to such sick extremes to make a buck.  But America is about freedom.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 6, 2003)

For some truely offensive shirts go here: http://www.tshirthell.com

I wouldn't take their $ if it was offered.  

Just a point of comparision. :asian:


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## michaeledward (May 7, 2003)

To expect good taste from the advertising community that brought you 'Who wants to Marry a Millionaire' and 'The Bachelor' is a fools errend.

What is expected in a free society is that people exercise personal judgement. I didn't watch those programs for a moment longer than it took me to realize they were sophomoric. If you don't like the advertisement, don't buy the product.

Also required in a free society is a discerning thought process. I would ask you to question the premise you put forth .... 
are they really ...  





> nasty men in the middle east who just don't happen to like your way of life.


 ... or could there be something else involved?

Could those nasty men be upset that we are forcing our way of life on their societies? (re: Who wants to Marry a Millionaire and The Bachelor). 

Could those nasty men be upset that our international corporations are going to appropriate their natural resources with disregard for their way of life (Unical Oil Pipeline through Afghanistan)

These thoughts in no way are meant to show dis-respect for the soldiers that have died fighting in Iraq, the victims of criminal acts (WTC & Pentagon employees), or the heroic police and fire officers who died on that Tuesday morning. 

They are intended to raise questions of my government and its actions. My government requires that I question it. My government requires that each dark corner be illuminated to function properly. We are all free to have our own opinions, but it is to our benefit to have informed opinions.

And ... For the Record ... I thought the T-Shirt was humorous and in no way disrespectful. I did not buy a T-Shirt. Kaith, the adverts are fine, I can ignore them if I choose.

Peace - - Mike


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## Mike Clarke (May 7, 2003)

Kaith,
I think you do a great job with this site, so please if I gave offence I'm sorry for that. I do understand the pressure to get the advertising $'s in to cover costs etc, from friends of mine who publish magazines. I guess we are all [thankfully] free to take notice of such ads or not and draw what conclussions we may as to their taste being good or bad.

eggman,
The thought of producing such tee shirts or making money in this way would never even enter my mind. Please don't drag me down to your level. If you think it's okay, fine. And by the way, in good old American fashion,  don't I have the 'rite' to sit this high on my horse?

michaeledward,
You know what one of the big things the rest of the world notices about Americans? they're always harping on about they're 'rites'. 
If, as a nation, you paid half as much attention to your responsibilities, you may not be held in such a dim light by others outside your country.

And....for the record.......I'm not anti American, so please, anyone tempted to paint me as a 'bad guy' just because of the things I've said here, choose something else.

Chufeng,
I got your meaning and understood where you were coming from.
Peace and love to all,
Mike.


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## michaeledward (May 7, 2003)

Mike Clark ... I agree with you 


> If, as a nation, you paid half as much attention to your responsibilities, you may not be held in such a dim light by others outside your country



and I am concerned that, as a nation, we have, by our nations actions, created responsibilities around the world, that we will not fulfill. I believe the use of U.S. Military power to depose the governing authority in Afghanistan and in Iraq, we have created responsibilities. I hope my countrymen will accept these responsibilities. I will push my congressmen and senators and president to accept these responsibilities to the people of these countries.

I believe these responsibilities include providing for the health and safety of the citizens while transitioning to a form of governance created by, and accepted by those same citizens. 

Hopefully, those outside my country, will see and recognize that we meet these obligations and adjust their point of view concerning us ... perhaps, we are not as dim a light as they think we are.

Thanks for letting me rant.  - Mike


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## SRyuFighter (May 7, 2003)

I believe that Uncle Ben from Spiderman said it best: 
" With great power comes responsibility"

Our nation does cause messes and not clean them up. Thats the problem, one president will choose to do something adn another president wont choose to clean it up because he didn't support the other president. I agree that we have a responsibility to both Iraq and Afghanistan. And Mike, your from the U. K. correct? Well if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be) But the U.K. backs us on almost everything we do. And they are also a free nation with rights! SO who the hell cares that we talk about our rights! Anyone else remember why this country chose to leave the U. K. Because they wanted freedom. This country has come a long way in creating equal rights for everyone and that is why we hold our rights so dear. I guess you have to be from America to understand.

Thanks for letting me rant.


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## Posiview (May 7, 2003)

> It's sad that some people would go to such sick extremes to make a buck. But America is about freedom.



And here's me thinking that Americans don't have a sense of  humour!

Andy Sheader


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## Master of Blades (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SRyuFighter _
> *I believe that Uncle Ben from Spiderman said it best:
> " With great power comes responsibility"
> 
> ...



"With Great power comes GREAT responsibility" :asian: 

And being British I will be the first to admit that Blaire Asslicks....whats your point? 

And even though America is the land of the free, home of the great blah blah does that mean that the standards of right and wrong automatically go down the drain?

btw.....I can see this turning into America vs Britain.....So just so y'all know.....I'm backing my Home country :ticked: 

:lol:


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## SRyuFighter (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *"With Great power comes GREAT responsibility" :asian:
> 
> And being British I will be the first to admit that Blaire Asslicks....whats your point?
> ...



I have no point with Blair and his asslicking ways.

What standards have we dropped?

I didn't mean to turn it into a America vs. Britain battle. Heck Britain is all that backs us now.


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## Master of Blades (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SRyuFighter _
> *I have no point with Blair and his asslicking ways.
> 
> What standards have we dropped?
> ...



This thread has turned into about whether its right or wrong to do blah blah blah. This whole land of the free thing to me....Seems to have allowed the dropping of the standards for right and wrong. Me personally I dont mind....cuz I have a sense of humour.....but I still know that its wrong :asian: 

lol.....No U.S.A vs U.k.....I hoping to get mah U.K crew together and kick some ***!


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## SRyuFighter (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *This thread has turned into about whether its right or wrong to do blah blah blah. This whole land of the free thing to me....Seems to have allowed the dropping of the standards for right and wrong. Me personally I dont mind....cuz I have a sense of humour.....but I still know that its wrong :asian:
> 
> lol.....No U.S.A vs U.k.....I hoping to get mah U.K crew together and kick some ***! *



Well it all depends upon one's standards my friend. This is a diverse country with all types.

Haha if you wanna U.S.A. vs. U.K it up then grab a book and look up the year 1776. Hehe


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## Master of Blades (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SRyuFighter _
> *Well it all depends upon one's standards my friend. This is a diverse country with all types.
> 
> Haha if you wanna U.S.A. vs. U.K it up then grab a book and look up the year 1776. Hehe  *



Too much History.......Brain overload. Anyway, back to topic :asian:


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *Too much History.......Brain overload. Anyway, back to topic :asian: *




Look up the Year 1812 also


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2003)

I know this might be a little late for the discussion, yet here I go.

Where do you draw the line for marketing?

Ok, I sell Ink to be used on T-Shirts, or if I sell the cotton to the shirt makers, or what if I wrote the computer program they used for he designing. I guess they all need to stop and find out where it all goes before they can sell their product. So, we could not sell if some might use it improperly. Yet, if we look at certain things, then Highly toxic and or harmful substances should be monitored, and or controlled, yet the basic products???

What about the people that stand in intersections for a good cause, yet look at you funny when you do not give after driving through the third intersect, and the only thign you have left is a $20 in your pocket or car now?

Everyone is intitled to opinions and the thread author has replied, and this is not a shot at him or anyone else, yet, if we stopped and thought about it all nothing would happen.

And for a Final Parting shot, to almost everyone, Go Home all you Europeans and Asians, and Africans, and please leave my country to me and my Native American Brother and Sisters. 
(* Do, I believe this possible, NOPE! *)

:asian:


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## Mike Clarke (May 8, 2003)

My original post had more to do with whether or not a particular ad for a tee-shirt was in good taste or not? It was not, nore never meant to become an attack on America or any other country for that matter.

England only lost the colony in 1776 because Mel Gibson had first rites to the script. 
[Yes.... I saw the movie].

America, like every other empire that has ever existed, is having its day. But a time will come and the world will turn and it will be someone elses turn to rule the roost. England did it for a while, Spain and Portugal had a little thing going too. Even Germany and the Dutch and Belgians [?] did their thing for a while in Africa and the Far East. If you go back far enough why even the Romans had the franchize on most of Europe.

Freedom is not an American concept, neither is the desire to live life to the full and see ones children grow up in peace. Such things are shared by people the world over. Politics and Power are the things that cause the problems, and it is the country with the biggest stick that has always called the shots.
Right now that's America, but who it will be 100 or 200 years from now? Well!!!!!

I thank you for letting me rant also.

Mike.


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## Cthulhu (May 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> * It was not, nore never meant to become an attack on America or any other country for that matter.
> *



Really?  I never would have guessed:



> _Originally posted by Mike Clarke _
> * Get a grip America. Either act like grown ups and show some respect to those who died, or shut the f**k up about being picked on by those nasty men in the middle east who just don't happen to like your way of life.
> 
> The shallowness that flows from your shores sometimes is utterly amazing. Kick this kind of enterprise and it's advertising money in the gutter where they belongs. And show some respect for the families of those who lost loved ones fighting for world peace.*



"You can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Cthulhu


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## Ender (May 8, 2003)

What I find amusing is this guy would make such generalizations about a whole country because of the actions of a few. He seems like one of those that criticizes America no matter what. That doesn't seem very enlightened to me. If you are angry about the action, be angry about the action. Thats the same as condemning all Arabs because of a few terroists. lighten up...enjoy life.


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## D.Cobb (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SRyuFighter _
> *I have no point with Blair and his asslicking ways.
> 
> What standards have we dropped?
> ...



Have you forgotten us already?
Not only did our PM back you guys, but the support from the public was there as well, which was sorely lacking in the UK.

Howsabout a UK vs Aust. kind of thing? Woohoo!:rofl: 

--Dave


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## SRyuFighter (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Have you forgotten us already?
> Not only did our PM back you guys, but the support from the public was there as well, which was sorely lacking in the UK.
> 
> ...



Good point! I apologize.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Have you forgotten us already?
> Not only did our PM back you guys, but the support from the public was there as well, which was sorely lacking in the UK
> --Dave
> ...


Hear HEAR!  I've always thought that the folks from down under shared a lot more with us than most countries.  Probably the combination of frontier spirit and ***-kicking independance. 

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

and they like to drink beer...!

:asian:
chufeng


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## Randy Strausbaugh (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *and they like to drink beer...!
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng *


Man, how could I have forgotten that? If they opened up a few White Castle places, we would probably invite them in as the 51st state!   

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## Cthulhu (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *
> And even though America is the land of the free, home of the great blah blah does that mean that the standards of right and wrong automatically go down the drain?
> *



It's "...land of the free, home of the *brave*..."

Cthulhu


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## Bob Hubbard (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *It's "...land of the free, home of the brave..."
> 
> Cthulhu *



Its one of the reasons why the Statue of Liberty immegrated here from France.  Freedom, Bravery and SOAP!


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## Jill666 (May 24, 2003)

(and the lady remington)


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## dearnis.com (May 24, 2003)

> (and the lady remington)



wooohooo!!


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## Master of Blades (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Have you forgotten us already?
> Not only did our PM back you guys, but the support from the public was there as well, which was sorely lacking in the UK.
> 
> ...



Bah! Why, not, havnt had a good fight for ages!


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## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

Y'all did pretty good in the latest Gulf War...congratulations and thanks for the help.

:asian:
chufeng


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