# no rules



## drummingman (Oct 29, 2006)

are there any mma type of competitions out there that have no rules? where everything goes:eye gouging,biting,groin hits, etc? if so where can a person see this stuff? 
i ask this because i'd like to see some fighting competitions that are really no holds bard.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

No. That would just be street fighting.


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## Makalakumu (Oct 29, 2006)

The Gracies have competed in these types of challenges.  I would look to see what they have in terms of video.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

These type of things are usually 'closed doors' and wouldn't have been filmed. I would imagine most cities or towns have somewhere that the local 'hard men' fight! It's not MMA nor is it martial arts but something that has been glamourised by films ie Jean-Claude Van Damme. Underground fighting shouldn't be confused at all with MMA!


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## Shotgun Buddha (Oct 29, 2006)

Vale Tudo competition, but to be honest its not worth the bother of watching. Fighters tend to be very much lacking in skill, gets to be very sloppy brawling.
Its one of the things that people don't seem to realize about rules in competition, they force you to actually develop some sort of skill to win.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

Why would you want to watch eye gouging, biting etc? As for groin hits, us women find them amusing but why would you want to watch that?


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## Shotgun Buddha (Oct 29, 2006)

Tez3 said:


> Why would you want to watch eye gouging, biting etc? As for groin hits, us women find them amusing but why would you want to watch that?


 
Personally I don't have much interest in it. But people are obsessed with gimmicky stuff. Its actually the same mindset as those who are focused on stuff like no-touch ko's and other of the more ridiculous stuff to do with Chi/Ki. They want an easy way of winning.
Its just that particular crowd are obsessed with biting/groin kicks/eye gouges because they have that same notion that they're "fight enders".
They want an easy way out.
And then you have the people who don't understand the difference between being vicious and being good.


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## Rook (Oct 29, 2006)

The three AFC (Absolute Fighting Championship) tournaments were held without any rules whatsoever.  They were all held in Russia.  I posted a clip I found of it here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36601

There have been Vale Tudos held without any rules as well, although I don't know which ones they were off hand.  

Additionally, the Gracie and Chute Boxe challenges, while not tournaments, were and still are held without rules.


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## cfr (Oct 29, 2006)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Its one of the things that people don't seem to realize about rules in competition, they force you to actually develop some sort of skill to win.


 
Agreed. I actually like the more modern UFC's as opposed to the earlier one for this very reason.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Oct 29, 2006)

cfr said:


> Agreed. I actually like the more modern UFC's as opposed to the earlier one for this very reason.


 
The early UFC's were pretty damn messy, ended up being just random flailing and brawling for the most part. Its amazing how much its evolved, comparing those early UFC's to the recent Pride FC's. The standard is so much higher.


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## MJS (Oct 29, 2006)

drummingman said:


> are there any mma type of competitions out there that have no rules? where everything goes:eye gouging,biting,groin hits, etc? if so where can a person see this stuff?
> i ask this because i'd like to see some fighting competitions that are really no holds bard.


 
Considering that there are always folks that want to do away with the MMA type events, its highly unlikely that you'll see a "no rules" event here in the states, unless its something illegal/underground.  It is possible that in Russia and Brazil you may be more apt to find an event with no rules at all.

Mike


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## drummingman (Oct 29, 2006)

Tez3 said:


> Why would you want to watch eye gouging, biting etc? As for groin hits, us women find them amusing but why would you want to watch that?


because its real fighting.in real life there are no rules.
as for these things being an easy way out that may be true but this is the kind of thing that a person has to deal with in a real fight.if the fights are set up to alow such things someone would have to develop ways to guard against such things in the fight.
i must say that watching 2 fighters roll around on the ground for 15 minuets jockeying for position is rather boring to me.i say this with no disrespect to bjj people.from what i can tell its just not practical fighting.i know its just a competition buts that why im asking about the type with no rules.i know that bjj can be used in a practical way and thats the way i would like to see it used.
it would change the way these fights would play out if there were no rules.we would see more realistic fights and fighting technique.
eventhough the old ufc's might have been somewhat sloppy technique wise the fights were more real.thats why i like those old ufc's way more then the new ones.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

I think you will find a lot of the very early UFC fights weren't as real as you imagine. Nor can UFC be considered totally real anyway. You seem also to be confusing BJJ with MMA, a common mistake I've noticed on this forum. The NHB fights you think you want to see don't constitute real street fighting as there are rules ie no weapons, bottles, broken glasses, knuckledusters etc and are one on one whereas streetfights are more likely to be more on one. Also streetfights are just that, you can end up on the pavement with broken glass, dog mess, anything. You can't replicate that in a ring or cage. 

I see MMA bouts every week which are very skillful, aggressive and not in the least boring. Most fighters I know (which is nearly every fighter in UK) are extremely good allround fighters. Of course we have rules, we aren't barbarians but fighters.We compete and watch others compete not destroy each other. We are doing our best to make MMA a respectable sport and it's the tasteless comparisons to the mindless violence of the streets and gangs that will pull us down.


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## Shovel Hook (Oct 29, 2006)

There was one called Tent Tumble (well 2 of them) underground events held in Vancouver in a big circus tent. I have not seen these but apparently guys were kicking and stomping with workboots on, one guy lost a kidney, one of the main events was 2 guys who had a series going that started when they were in prison, etc.
Sounds pretty wild.
A lot of the Vale Tudo events at least have no biting or eye gouges. I think it was at one of the Japan Vale Tudos that Gerard Gordeau (first guy to win a UFC match) blinded a fighter in that eye with a gouge.
Remember in VT there are no time limits or standups so a match could be some hour long lay & pray as easily as some vicious brawl.

If biting was allowed that would be the end of the triangle choke.

I like both MMA and more extreme, older fight footage(as well as streetfight stuff), just for different reasons. Actually I prefer Pride rules (well, the Japanese rules) to anything, think they allow for the most entertaining fights, more so than any promotion past or present, and also demand skill and gameplans. For instance compared with the UFC you can actually take advantage of a grounded opponent rather than having to enter his guard, there are no elbows so it is harder for someone to win on a technicality cut stoppage, etc.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

Nasty as they may be these are still not 'real' fights if you are planning to watch them to prepare yourself for a street encounter! They are consensual and while they are fighting 'dirty' they aren't trying to kill each other nor are they holding you down while their mates kick you in the head.  
When putting the triangle choke on pull their arm across their face then pull their head down as you raise your hips , no way they'd bite you then!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 29, 2006)

There were still agreed upon rules in the early UFC days.  The thing that did make it exciting was the vast differance in size and martial arts that were entering the competition.  Now that everyone who competes in the UFC or Pride events practices a form of MMA you see less mismatches and therby the fights can have a tendancy to once in awhile be boring.  However the benefit now is that you actually have a *sport* that is regulated and growing at a rapid pace.  Good or bad you have to decide for yourself if you like it and want to watch it.  No matter what it is still just a sport.


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## Tez3 (Oct 29, 2006)

Good matchmaking will produce good bouts which are enjoyable to fight in and watch. I enjoy Pride far more than UFC but I enjoy watching live shows better. It's been a long time now since I watched a boring fight live.


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## Adept (Oct 30, 2006)

All competitions use some kind of rules, such as no weapons and only two competitors per fight. Without any rules, I could simply get together ten mates with assault rifles and win by default.


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## drummingman (Nov 2, 2006)

i go watch that adept lol.
what about vale tudo? there a no rules in that execpt only 1 on 1 fighting right?


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## MJS (Nov 2, 2006)

drummingman said:


> i go watch that adept lol.
> what about vale tudo? there a no rules in that execpt only 1 on 1 fighting right?


 
All MMA is one on one, so the name, ie: Vale Tudo, UFC, Pride, etc. really has nothing to do with it.  As I said in an earlier post, I doubt we'll ever see 'no rules' in the US.  Its possible in Brazil and Russia you may find events that have no rules at all.

Mike


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