# Who is Who in Modern Arnis? A Family Tree, of sorts.



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 19, 2003)

Ok, one of the goals of this site is the preservation of knowledge.  One part of that is to know who is who.

This thread will hopefully lead to something good.  A "Directory" if you will of Modern Arnis people.

What I would like to know is, Who Are You?

I have some requests.
1- No sniping, etc.
2- No "Corrections" of others info.

I ask that everyone only post their own "Biography", not someone elses.  If you know someone who should be included please point them here, ask them to sign up and add their own information.

Please post the info, don't just point to your bio on your website (if you have one).

Feel free to include a photo.

My end goal is something similar to this:
http://kenponet.tripod.com/flame/whoswho/index.html

:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 2, 2004)

Anyone have anything to add?


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## Red Blade (Jan 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Anyone have anything to add? *



Well I sure dont qualify to be in the MA whos  who, but it seems to me that the two *MOST* visible people in the art since GM Presas passing are:

Datu Tim Hartman www.wmarnis.com
Guro Jeff Delaney www.professorpresas.com


Just an observation.
 :idunno:


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## Cruentus (Jan 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Red Blade _
> *Well I sure dont qualify to be in the MA whos  who, but it seems to me that the two MOST visible people in the art since GM Presas passing are:
> 
> Datu Tim Hartman www.wmarnis.com
> ...



I could almost agree, yet I don't think that Delaney is as visable as it might seem. The write ups and reviews are quite inflated on his site, and he pays for expensive ads in Blackbelt Magazine. So it would seem like Delenay is quite visable. Yet, he only has 3 camps and 4 seminars on the schedule for 04'. Hartman had many more camps, seminars, and joint ventures happening then Jeff. Far more. Plus, he Tim Hartman is all over the country, as well as overseas, and it seems that each year the WMAA has grown because of these contacts. Every year we seem to have more and more stuff happening (I am a WMAA member); for example, last year one of Professors other Datu's (Bong Journalas) linked up with the WMAA, and this year, Tim is going to the Phillipines to develop even MORE contacts. Each of these contacts seem to result in another Camp, seminar, or joint venture for the WMAA. 

My observation has been that the IMAF/delenay organization seems to get smaller every year. He had far more visability and seminars happening right after Professors death then now, it seems.

Now, I am a WMAA member, but I don't think that I am being biased in my observation. It seems that yearly Tim Hartman's visability grows substantially, while Delenays visability dwindles. I don't think the 2 are in the same catagory in terms of visability at all because of this.

PAUL
:asian:


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## Guro Harold (Jan 11, 2004)

Looking at each groups 2003 posted events:

Delaney IMAF: had about 25 events
WMAA: had about 34 events


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## Red Blade (Jan 11, 2004)

WMAA: had 35 events 
IMAF Delaney IMAF: had 25 events
IMAF Schea: had 14 events
Kelly Worden: around 10 events
MARPPIO: had 6 events
:asian:


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## Dieter (Jan 11, 2004)

Hi,

just for your information:

Here are the events we had in 2003 here in Germany:

DAV: had 43 events



Best regards from Germany




Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> *Hi,
> 
> just for your information:
> ...



Good going!


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## Guro Harold (Jan 11, 2004)

143 events total is a great compliment to the legacy of GM Remy Presas!!!

This year also was monumental that people from several organizations came 
together to help Marissa Marks.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *This year also was monumental that people from several organizations came together to help Marissa Marks. *



It was my honor.:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *It was my honor.:asian: *



And My Priviledge as well. :asian:


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## Cruentus (Jan 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> *Hi,
> 
> just for your information:
> ...



What countries were these all in? :asian:


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## Dieter (Jan 12, 2004)

> What countries were these all in?



Only here in Germany


Greetings


Dieter


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## arnisador (Jan 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *143 events total is a great compliment to the legacy of GM Remy Presas!!!*



This is a great point of view!


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## Cruentus (Jan 15, 2004)

I've been thinking about "visability," and it would seem that it involves much more then just "how many seminars did you do last year". The fact is, I can do one seminar a week at my school with my own students, for example, for about 48 weeks; this would mean that I, Paul Janulis, will have 48 seminars that I could claim, with 3-8 of the same attendents each time. Yet, because I have 48 seminars, does this really make me the most visable?

So visability has to be much more involved then "how many seminars did I do last year." How many people attended? I know Dieter often gets large turnouts for events. Better yet, How many "New students" attended? How many write ups did the person get in publications? How commercial were these publications? Little things account for visability also, such as products. Bram Frank for instance has a certian degree of visability with the popularity of his gunting knife in the knife community, for example. And even though Delaney is paying for his ads in black belt magazine, ads still account for visability. All things things can be taken into account for visability, making it impossable to determine who really is "the most visable", unless the award is won by a long shot.

One thing that does account for visability greatly, probably just as much as the amount of seminars per year, would be the variety of locations, and how far they span out. There are people who are very popular for their locations, such as Kelly Worden in Washington State area, and Dieter in Germany. Yet how visable is one really if they are confined to their select location?

So, if we were judging by location, it looks like Datu Hartman is still on top, and Delenay is still in second.

First off, the numbers seem to be not entirely correct to me; some of Delenays listed seminars were not taught by Delenay himself; and some of the WMAA seminars were not taught by Tim Hartman himself. Since we are talking about visability of individual people, it would be only fair to count the ones that they taught at, not just the ones listed on the website.

This changes the numbers, leaving Delany with only 15 seminars that he taught at, and Hartman with 24. 

Now, going by these numbers, lets look at how far and vast they were able to travel to spread the art. Jeff was in Texas, Conneticut, Arizona, New Hampshire, Tenessee, Pennsylvania, British Columbia Canada, and England for a total of 8 locations (6 states in the U.S., 1 province in Canada, and England). Tim was in Ontario Canada, Washington D.C., Pennsylvania, New York, Oregon, Sweden, Oklahoma, Michigan, Scandanavia, and Delaware for a total of 11 locations (7 states in the U.S., Washington D.C., a provence in Canada, Sweden, and Scandanavia).

It would seem if we are going by travels, Jeff Delaney is much more visable then I thought. Yet with 9 more seminars taught personally, and 3 more locations, and with the locations spanning all over the U.S. and overseas, it would appear that Hartman has Delaney by almost a long shot!

Your very bored friend,
Paul Janulis


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## Cruentus (Jan 15, 2004)

Gee...maybe I should, like, make a point when I post stuff.  :iws: lol

My point isn't "Hey look everyone, Tim Hartman is the most visable guy in Modern Arnis." I mean, that may be true now, but that could change in a year.

My point is really that first of all, there are a lot of factors that make a person "visable" outside of how many seminars one does.

My second point is that for those of us teaching and trying to grow the art, we should strive to try to teach in as many different locations as we can. This will help grow the art more so then only hitting same locations every year.

I think that it is great that we have had 100's of events for Modern Arnis this year (more then 143 I believe, if you include IMAF, Inc., NSI, and other independents), and we need to strive not just to increase the number, but to break into locations around the world who haven't yet seen the art.

:asian:


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 15, 2004)

Visibility is not skill.


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## Brian Johns (Jan 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Red Blade _
> *WMAA: had 35 events
> IMAF Delaney IMAF: had 25 events
> IMAF Schea: had 14 events
> ...



Just to make a point.....the above numbers are probably misleading. For example, the IMAF/Schea organization (which I belong to) has a few seminars that are "under the radar" and are not advertised on the IMAF website. For example, I attended a seminar by Chuck Gauss the other day that was not on the IMAF website.  As Renegade said, visibility is not rank......invisibility does not necessarily mean the lack of skill either.

The point is that some seminars and other events may be under the radar, so to speak.

Take care,
Brian Johns
Columbus, Ohio


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by WhoopAss _
> *Just to make a point.....the above numbers are probably misleading. For example, the IMAF/Schea organization (which I belong to) has a few seminars that are "under the radar" and are not advertised on the IMAF website. For example, I attended a seminar by Chuck Gauss the other day that was not on the IMAF website.  As Renegade said, visibility is not rank......invisibility does not necessarily mean the lack of skill either.
> 
> The point is that some seminars and other events may be under the radar, so to speak.
> ...



Agreed-

I had about 10 of my own seminars not listed either. When I did the Swedish tour this past fall I only list that I would be there. I taught 6 seminars while I was there.
:asian:


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