# Cheap guns for home defense



## Grenadier (Aug 6, 2008)

With all of the talk about money these days, maybe I can bring some good news...

Money is tight these days, there's no doubt about that.  At the same time, though, when it comes to defending your own home, you shouldn't try to do it as cheaply as possible, unless you have absolutely no other choice.  

Does that mean that home defense is expensive?  Not necessarily.  There are many good guns that can be had for a relatively low price; you just have to be careful about what you buy.  Just as an example:

Under 100 dollars: 

Not a good place to be at all, but despite this, you can find some decent guns, if you don't mind them being used and scuffed, such as:

Iver-Johnson .38 revolver
Russian Nagant .38 revolver
H&R top-break revolver
High Point pistols (don't laugh; they actually work)
CZ-52 pistol
Various single shot shotguns

100-150 dollars (again, these are for used guns): 

Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun
Mossberg Maverick shotgun
FEG pistols (9mm Mak caliber)
Radom P63/P64 pistols
Chinese Tokarev pistols

150-200 dollars:

Various Rossi revolvers (used)
Ruger P-95 pistol (used)
FEG pistols (9 mm Parabellum caliber, used)
Bulgarian or Russian Makarov pistols
Used S&W K-frame .38 revolvers (local place here has various Model 10 revolvers for under 200)


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## zDom (Aug 6, 2008)

_
Two feets they come a creepin' 
Like a black cat do 
And two bodies are layin' naked 
Creeper think he got nothin' to lose 
So he creeps into this house, yeah 
And unlocks the door 
And as a man's reaching for his trousers 
Shoots him full of .38 holes

(Chorus)
Mr.Saturday night special 
Got a barrel that's blue and cold 
Ain't no good for nothin' 
But put a man six feet in a hole

Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey 
And playing poker on a losin' night 
And pretty soon, Big Jim starts a thinkin' 
Somebody been cheatin' and lyin' 
So Big Jim commences to fightin' 
I wouldn't tell you no lie 
And Big Jim done pull his pistol 
Shot his friend right between the eyes

(Chorus)

Oooh Saturday night special...
For twenty dollars you can buy yourself one too... 

Oooh let me tell you all about it...

Well hand guns are made for killin' 
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey 
You might even shoot yourself 
So why don't we dump 'em people 
To the bottom of the sea 
Before some ole fool come around here 
Wanna shoot either you or me

(Chorus)

Ooooh it's a Saturday night special
And I'd like to tell you what you can do with it too...
_


Heheheh couldn't resist 

I'm not really anti-gun other than it would be nice, as a martial artist, if they all magically vanished. Then we would RULE TEH EARTH! MuahhaHAHhah!


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## Kacey (Aug 6, 2008)

Grenadier said:


> With all of the talk about money these days, maybe I can bring some good news...
> 
> Money is tight these days, there's no doubt about that.  At the same time, though, when it comes to defending your own home, you shouldn't try to do it as cheaply as possible, unless you have absolutely no other choice.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting this!  As you may have seen from my thread, one of my friends recently took me shooting for the first time, and I will be going with a group of friends the end of next week; they've offered to let me try a variety of guns that they will have with them at the range so I can start to get an idea what I might want to get - and the cost of the gun was a primary concern for me.  This gives me some good ideas to get started with once I've had a chance to try a variety of sizes and styles.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 6, 2008)

Kacey if you have the money buy Glock and you will never regret it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Now as to cheap firearms well I was recently at the range and someone had a Keltec I believe and it was a nice little firearm for the $250 or so he spent on it.  Still when in doubt and in the moment I want a firearm that is tried and true so in that case I am willing to pay a little more.


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## Bodhisattva (Aug 6, 2008)

Grenadier said:


> With all of the talk about money these days, maybe I can bring some good news...
> 
> Money is tight these days, there's no doubt about that.  At the same time, though, when it comes to defending your own home, you shouldn't try to do it as cheaply as possible, unless you have absolutely no other choice.
> 
> ...



What are some things a person should look at when purchasing a used pistol?  How do you know if a used pistol is still safe and shoots straight?


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## zDom (Aug 6, 2008)

Yea, I've been thinking of getting a Glock for some time. Heard good things and a kajillion LEO can't be wrong eh?


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## KenpoTex (Aug 6, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Kacey if you have the money *buy Glock and you will never regret it*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Exactly!  The comfort of knowing I carry the most reliable pistol model on the market (9mm Glocks) is worth an extra 1-2 hundred.  Even if that means skipping movies or fast food for a month or so to save up the extra $ rather than going with a cheaper (lower quality) weapon.

If I had to "do it cheap" I'd recommend a used S&W revolver, the Com-bloc stuff (the CZ-52 is sweet), or one of the shotguns listed.


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## benj13bowlin (Aug 6, 2008)

I would recoment a cheap Mil Spec 1911.  You can find them for around $300 if you know where to look, and they are by far my favorite gun.  Check www.auctionarms.com and www.gunsamerica.com


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

I have a feeling M16s are about to be cheap. Is that good?

verkill:


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## jks9199 (Aug 6, 2008)

Glocks are great guns for cops; they tolerate abuse mind bogglingly well, and still go bang.  They have no extra things to deal with like external safety switches or decocking levers.  They've got one drawback, in that you have to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun -- but that's workable.

I'm not sure that I'd consider them an ideal home defense gun, however, unless you are reasonably well trained in safety and handling -- for several of the same reasons that they're great cop guns.  They have no external safety; you put your finger on the trigger, and she's gonna go bang.  They're also more expensive than a revolver.

I'd suggest a decent, .40 or .45 calibre revolver for home defense with minimal training.  There's less to go wrong, fewer bullets to send flying, and they're cheaper.

That or a shotgun...


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## teekin (Aug 6, 2008)

Glock 9mm take huge huge abuse but do jam. There was an issue with the 40's action and ejector. Hubby had to rework and smith a shitload of these for cops and civvies. Glock never did take responsibility for this and it was a man. defect. Please do not buy a .40. The CZ is the way to go.
 Lori


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 6, 2008)

Sheep guns? no Cheep Guns! Ok.

I've owned I'd say well over 400 guns in my life (gun nut by 16 years old!) 

Even traded a H&R .22 revolver for a FN made Browning .25 vest pocket pistol with my electrical teacher in high school (in the parking lot no less!)

H&R make ok pistols. Inexpensive and you can use them as your first practice gun (which is what I did when I was 16.)

Unfortunatly .38 Smith & Wesson revolvers arn't so cheep anymore! $300 in just decent shape. Same goes for Ruger Security Six/Service Six/Speed Six revolvers. Forget Colt revolvers... way to high now as Colt pretty much abandoned the field.

If you can find a good Smith M10 .38 revolver, tight, nice condtion, for $250, grab it. Especially if it's a 2 inch round butt. And if it's stainless (the M64) use the rent money if you have to.

Taurus and Rossi are ok, but they are in the $300 buck range now! And they ain't S&W, I can assure you.

Oh.. right, sheep, no, cheep guns!

The Bersa .380 is very reliable. Makes a decent concealed gun (if not real powerful.) $250 is about what they go for. I like the racy CCW version of the gun with melted slide. Looks cool. I recommend it as a CCW gun for those who can't afford more. Nice thing is they make a .22 version! You can cut your ammo cost way down by getting one as the trainer. It will pay for itself.

Glocks? Lots said above about them. Yea they are as good as they say they are (I should know, won some state IDPA expert class championships with them, never jammed at all.) Got over 100,000 rounds out of one of them (a Glock 17.) But expect to pay $450 for a used one. 9mm are what they were designed for and cheepist to shoot.

Kel-tecs are ok, but a fair number of them have problems (but the factory is famous for making good.) I consider the P3AT a last ditch gun and not a plinking gun at all! It kicks!

Ruger MKII and MKIII .22 pistols are excellent. Money well spent. Get stainless if you are lazy like me at cleaning.

Rifle wise the Ruger 10/22 is hard to beat. $150 or so and very very good. I prefer the stainless as, like I said, I'm lazy at cleaning.

High Point 9mm rifles I have shot alot (don't own, but shot alot) and are very reliable and accurate. I detest the mag (10 round) but other than that they do work and work well.

Shotguns. Cheep? Mossburg is the way to go. Very reliable (100,000 U.S. Marines can't be all wrong) and sturdy. You can get one for $150 or so if you look around.

Yes NEF makes a shotgun but they don't measure up to the orgional H&R single shots (my favorite of single shot scatterguns.)

Ex-military?

Makarov. Reliable as a Glock. Sure the 9x18 isn't a 9mm Luger, but it's ok. Bulgarian's are about all you can find now. East Germans are real hard to find (but have the best trigger pulls!)

Russian Nagant 7.62x54 rifles are also pretty rugged and cheep. But the saftey is very hard to use (but the spike bayonet is easy to use!)

Undoubtabley there are more, but those above are good ones.

Deaf


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## Hawke (Aug 6, 2008)

Guns for home defense brings a concern I heard from another person.

If you have children, make sure the bullets are strong enough to do the work, but not so strong they will go through walls.

Any suggestions for a gun whose bullet will be effective enough to defend the home, but also keep the kids safe?


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## jks9199 (Aug 7, 2008)

They're not cheap -- but there are a number of frangible rounds on the market to address exactly that concern.  They'll allegedly (never tested 'em myself, or seen an actual test, just videos/pics/reports) do the job -- but not go through standard walls.

I've also been told that bird shot is unlikely to penetrate a wall, while still being effective.

But really -- the best control is to remember the 4th Cardinal Rule: Know your target, and what is behind your target.  If your backstop is the kid's bedroom wall, it may not be time to shoot...  Murphy loves to put his 2 cents in at the worst possible moment, so when you figure your frangible round won't miss, it will -- and that's when you'll discover that the builder went ultra cheap on drywall, or your kid fixed the hole they put in the wall with newspaper...


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## army (Aug 7, 2008)

i personally own a springfield XD9 which i love to death brand new for 400 and than i also own an AR-10 which i have not be able to fire cuase i bought it while i'm over here on deployment can't wait but the ar-15 is about to go down in price alot due to the high depand for the ar-10...anyways thanks all


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## teekin (Aug 7, 2008)

Just how easy are Glazer safety slugs to get where you are? The will do work but not pass through metal. They may be tough to find.
 Lori


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## chinto (Aug 7, 2008)

for home defense you want a decent weapon.. not a cheepy that may fail you... that said, well a good 12 gage/bore shot gun is very very hard to beat!  in pistols people  Bore Diameter! Bore Diameter!!! that is all that counts till you got at least 2000 fps on the round!! no pistol does that!  so bigger is better.. a reasonably good .45 takes a cheeper or more expesive .38 or 9mm every time!  ( im an ex EMT and believe me that its the size of the cannon ball that counts in a pistol.)  rifles will work but remember they can shoot though the attacker, 4 walls and the baby and mother across the street and still kill the father!! not nessesarily a good choice for home defense if you live in the city.. good one for rural living out in the county with no neighbors for ohh a mile or so. 
and well a bayonet works great! if you get it home, and then again some jurys see it as some how crewl and some how not quite fair or somthing and may throw you in prison where if you shot him you would walk...... something to consider.. jurys do not seem to like knives a lot.


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## Grenadier (Aug 7, 2008)

Bodhisattva said:


> What are some things a person should look at when purchasing a used pistol? How do you know if a used pistol is still safe and shoots straight?


 
Buy only from reputable folks.  This will remove most of the garbage guns out there.  Whether you're doing this via private sale, or from a FFL holder, either way, only go to the reputable ones.  

Once you see the gun, ask if you can field strip it, if it's a semiautomatic pistol.  Check to see that there are no bulges in the barrel, no barrel erosion, excessive slide peening, broken recoil or trigger springs, etc.  

Also, make sure that there isn't any excessive play in the moving parts.  

If it's a revolver, make sure that the cylinder rotates freely when swung out, and doesn't rotate once it's locked into place.  Again, check the barrel for erosion and bulges.  

Ask to dry fire the gun.  If the seller refuses, then take a pass on it.  By dry firing, you can get a decent idea of how well the trigger works.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 7, 2008)

Hawke said:


> Guns for home defense brings a concern I heard from another person.
> 
> If you have children, make sure the bullets are strong enough to do the work, but not so strong they will go through walls.
> 
> Any suggestions for a gun whose bullet will be effective enough to defend the home, but also keep the kids safe?


 
Projectiles that will _reliably and consistently_ _penetrate to an "adequate" depth in human tissue_ will go through drywall with no problem.

Use a bullet that will do the job (penetrating the BG) and, like JKS said, know where you're shooting.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 7, 2008)

chinto said:


> in pistols people Bore Diameter! Bore Diameter!!! that is all that counts till you got at least 2000 fps on the round!! no pistol does that! so bigger is better.. a reasonably good .45 takes a cheeper or more expesive .38 or 9mm every time! ( im an ex EMT and believe me that its the size of the cannon ball that counts in a pistol.)


 What?


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## Big Don (Aug 7, 2008)

for home defense, I tend to favor the pump action 410ga shot gun. The 410 is a small round which is less likely to go through walls and kill/maim your neighbors and the act of cycling the action makes a singular sound, a terrifying sound to hear in the dark...


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 7, 2008)

chinto,

Don't go overboard on bore diameter. TheTexas DPS, New Mexico DPS, and the Secret Serivce all use the .357 Sig with great results.

Shot placement is the most critical variable. Don't hit'em right and you will have problems, no matter what round.

While such as the .22, .25, .32, and to an extent .380 are real weak, 9mm, .357 Sig, .38 Spl, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, 10mm, .44 Spl, .45 ACP, etc... have all done well (and done poorly!) There is no such thing as a magic bullet.

Each round has it's faults and good points. 9mms and .38s are real easy to shoot strait (and that's a big plus!), cheeper to shoot to! .45s and 10mms hit harder (yet as David Spauling wrote from seeing many a video tape of shootouts, the difference in reaction of the targets isn't great) but they come at the price of being harder to manage and cost more to practice with.

The most inportant thing is skill. And sn't it the same way with the martial arts?

Practice often. Practice well with good technique. Carry a good reliable gun you know your can shoot like you throw your favorite punch or kick.

And then stay out of trouble if you at all can.

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 10, 2008)

Bodhisattva said:


> What are some things a person should look at when purchasing a used pistol? How do you know if a used pistol is still safe and shoots straight?


First you might want to know if a particular gun was a quality firearm when it was new.  Now if it was, and it appears well-maintained, most modern quality firearms will last virtually several life-times with proper basic maintainance.


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 10, 2008)

Big Don said:


> for home defense, I tend to favor the pump action 410ga shot gun. The 410 is a small round which is less likely to go through walls and kill/maim your neighbors and the act of cycling the action makes a singular sound, a terrifying sound to hear in the dark...


If someone hears my action cycling in the middle of the night, it's because they have managed to survive the first round fired.


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## sgtmac_46 (Aug 10, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> Projectiles that will _reliably and consistently_ _penetrate to an "adequate" depth in human tissue_ will go through drywall with no problem.
> 
> Use a bullet that will do the job (penetrating the BG) and, like JKS said, know where you're shooting.


 In fact a 9mm out of a handgun will out-penetrate a .223 out of a carbine through sheet-rock consistently.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 10, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> If someone hears my action cycling in the middle of the night, it's because they have managed to survive the first round fired.


 Thank you...I get sick of the "the sound that will make a grown man pee himself" stuff.



			
				sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> In fact a 9mm out of a handgun will out-penetrate a .223 out of a carbine through sheet-rock consistently.


Yup


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## 7starmarc (Aug 11, 2008)

I'd be careful about going on the cheap for a HD weapon. I want reliability, accuracy, and confidence.

Same thing goes for the ammo choice. Specialty rounds are interesting, but you have to do your research. Some of these rounds don't feed as reliably as the more mainstream stuff. Put that into a less-than-reliable discount firearm, and you could be cursing a jam after you missed your first shot, instead of lining up your followup or second target. Also, specialty ammo is still no substitute for appropriate training, planning, and discipline.

If you have kids in your house, and there is a situation with a high chance of needing to shoot, know where they are going to be (give them a safe area, or have spouse direct, collect and find cover with them).

My opinion, maintaining guns as a HD/SD weapon is not cheap. If I do not have the resources to purchase a reliable weapon, good ammo, and practice regularly, perhaps I should rethink the decision. Sure, at some point, anything may be preferable to nothing (but that's what baseball bats are for). But relying on a cheap weapon that I don't practice with is a recipe for disaster. In most HD/SD situations, the adrenaline is running, we default to the level of training we have acquired and maintained, fine motor skills degrade.

Also, if I am not going to take the time to maintain my weapon with proper cleaning, etc., I should also rethink my position.

To paraphrase something I saw recently:

The loudest sound in the world is a click when you expected a bang.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 18, 2008)

army said:


> i personally own a springfield XD9 which i love to death


+1 
I own 2 xd .45 acp pistols and will never buy anything but.... well maybe a 10mm glock.....  despite the overabundance of owners, information, accessories and aftermarket items for the glock I chose XD due to the improvements over the glock especially in the realm of safety and ergonomics....   glocks never fit my hand right 

I went down this same path when I dove into "purchasing a gun for the first time"....  I tried the budget route and first purchased a mosin nagant m44... great to scare people with at the range but terrible for any situation exept a wwll trench.....  I purchased a cz-52 and the damn thing kept failing to fire and eject.... the gun was extremely unsafe .... 
then I purchased and sks...although very reliable... it must be modified to suit todays needs....  all those i purchased for less than 500.00 but they are also taking up space in my safe.... 
I realized I had to come into the times BUT I stayed budget minded...rather than just having a bunch o guns that cant be carried I consolidated into categories.... 
pistol:
I ended up buying a 4" xd .45(489.00) for a more concealable pistol and a 5" xd .45(530.00) for my primary pistol .... this gun will not fire unless intentionally gripped so it gives me the ultimate assurance even if someone is trying to wrestle it away.... unlike glocks 

shotgun/ scattergun: 
benelli supernova tactical (350.00) being used by special forces in the sand box       remington 870s are expensive and the only other option would be a mossberg 500 which is a good choice because they are made much better now and are also being used in the sand box with great results.... 

battle rifle: 
had some options here  ak style /hk style / ar style etc but I settled on a DSA FAL(1100.00) this is a good battle rifle that will forever take my abuse and good for accuracy past 600 meters 

long gun/ long rifle 
tikka t-3 bolt action .300 win mag(500.00) 

anti-material long gun:
BOHICA far 50 mark 3 
in .50 cal ....upper only (995.00)  attaches to any ar lower 

took me some time but i lined it all up..... 

you need body armor too my friend


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