# UFC: Brock Lesnar to face Frank Mir in Las Vegas at UFC 98 on May 23



## Clark Kent (Mar 4, 2009)

The UFC made it official today and the headliner at UFC 98 will feature the unification of the heavyweight titles as UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar faces UFC Interim Heavyweight champion Frank Mir. 

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## Hand Sword (Mar 4, 2009)

????

How do both share the UFC Heavyweight tile?


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## FeralKenpo (Mar 4, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> ????
> 
> How do both share the UFC Heavyweight tile?



it's so confusing... why do they do this?


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## StrongFighter (Mar 4, 2009)

I believe Brock Lensar will win.


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## Sandstorm (Mar 4, 2009)

And now the UFC continues it's journey down the road of 'entertainment' over skill. Lesnar is just an educated Coleman of old. Dana should try and keep UFC to MMA, not turn it into a *****-slapped version of pro-wrasslin'.

Just my humblest of humble opinions


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## LordOfWu (Mar 4, 2009)

Sandstorm said:


> And now the UFC continues it's journey down the road of 'entertainment' over skill. Lesnar is just an educated Coleman of old. Dana should try and keep UFC to MMA, not turn it into a *****-slapped version of pro-wrasslin'.
> 
> Just my humblest of humble opinions



I'm curious about this concern.  I am not discounting it, but in my opinion MMA is either the top of the food chain for full contact sport fighting or it isn't.  Here's how I see it...Mir already beat Lesnar once, using superior martial arts skills over size and strength.  If Lesnar does not learn martial arts skills at least sufficiently to counter the submissions of Mir, I would see him losing again.  If he has learned those skills (and I for one beleive that he has taken the martial arts portion of MMA seriously) then he can use them to counter Mir and take advantage of his size and strength more effectively.

In the match against Couture the size difference was too much, and shows that if they get enough of the gargantuan beasts they should create a super heavy weight division.

I will say, that Brock's personality in front of a microphone is still a bit too WWE for me, but I try to focus on what happens in the ring (and sometimes I even pull it off  )


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## Sandstorm (Mar 4, 2009)

LordOfWu said:


> I'm curious about this concern. I am not discounting it, but in my opinion MMA is either the top of the food chain for full contact sport fighting or it isn't. Here's how I see it...Mir already beat Lesnar once, using superior martial arts skills over size and strength. If Lesnar does not learn martial arts skills at least sufficiently to counter the submissions of Mir, I would see him losing again. If he has learned those skills (and I for one beleive that he has taken the martial arts portion of MMA seriously) then he can use them to counter Mir and take advantage of his size and strength more effectively.
> 
> In the match against Couture the size difference was too much, and shows that if they get enough of the gargantuan beasts they should create a super heavy weight division.
> 
> I will say, that Brock's personality in front of a microphone is still a bit too WWE for me, but I try to focus on what happens in the ring (and sometimes I even pull it off  )


 
I agree about the size issue with Couture and the possible need for a superheavy division. My concern is that it is becoming very much like WWF in it's overall appearance. I hope Muir wins, of course, because I feel he deserves it due to the time and years he's put in MMA. Now we get this lumbering colossus who is all brawl and next to no ability, wiping over the heavyweight division with brawn. Brock is a powerhouse. He's got bombs and he will drop them. If he has improved on his positions and transition work, he will most likely win, yes, due to the strength and size etc. I just don't want there to suddenly be a whole load of WWF crossover guys stomping into the UFc and discreditting the ability behind the rest of the fighters. If the spotlight shines on those big guys, it'll put the little guys out of a job and to me, it's the little guys who have made UFC and MMA what it is and what it should be. Not just a show, but a realistic combat sport.

Again, just my opinion.

Kind regards
John


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## LordOfWu (Mar 4, 2009)

Sandstorm said:


> I agree about the size issue with Couture and the possible need for a superheavy division. My concern is that it is becoming very much like WWF in it's overall appearance. I hope Muir wins, of course, because I feel he deserves it due to the time and years he's put in MMA. Now we get this lumbering colossus who is all brawl and next to no ability, wiping over the heavyweight division with brawn. Brock is a powerhouse. He's got bombs and he will drop them. If he has improved on his positions and transition work, he will most likely win, yes, due to the strength and size etc. I just don't want there to suddenly be a whole load of WWF crossover guys stomping into the UFc and discreditting the ability behind the rest of the fighters. If the spotlight shines on those big guys, it'll put the little guys out of a job and to me, it's the little guys who have made UFC and MMA what it is and what it should be. Not just a show, but a realistic combat sport.
> 
> Again, just my opinion.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree at all with your opinion, which in my mind is why most of the weight classes below heavyweight are much more interesting to me.  I wouldn't discredit Brock's physical abilities, however.  I don't think most of the WWE types could do what he's done.  I can't say I want Mir to win, because he is just as arrogant and offensive to me as Lesnar, regardless of how many years he's put into the sport.

As I say, fortunately because of weight classes, I don't think Lesnar will put any 'little guys' out of a job...some of the smaller heavy weights may want to think about cutting to light heavy weight though!


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## Hand Sword (Mar 4, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> ????
> 
> How do both share the UFC Heavyweight tile?


 

Is there more than one title? kind of like when the WWE tookover WCW then had the World title and the WWE title. Is this the former Pride heavyweight title that Mir has or was Lesnar hurt and couldn't defend and Mir was the interim?????????


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## LordOfWu (Mar 4, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> ????
> 
> How do both share the UFC Heavyweight tile?



The reason they share the title has to do with contract disputes.  Randy Couture was disputing his contract with UFC while he was the champion.  Once the dispute dragged on they created an interim title pending the dispute resolution.  They did this for two reasons, I think.  One is to have a championship fight on an otherwise moderate card, and two was marketing for the very type of fight we see coming.

My big issue with it was that once the dispute was settled and Randy was going to fight, they set up a fight with him and Lesnar, rather than resolve the two belts.  This was strictly and completely a marketing move.  The interesting thing is, neither fighter who held the belt when the interim was introduced (Randy and Nogiera) hold the current belts for the consolidation.  

I think the whole thing may have been good for marketing and getting more championship fights on various cards, but I think it shows a lack of depth in the HW division, as well as a certain question on doing what's good for the pocketbook v. what's good to maintain credibility in the sport.  I don't think it irreparably harmed the credibility, but I think neither Lesnar or Mir should consider themselves champ until after this fight.

Hoped that help clear it up a little.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 4, 2009)

OK..but I thought the Couture/Lesnar fight was for the recognized UFC heavy weight title. If there was only one title, how could another 2 fight for it? Especially since, like it or not, Lesnar was the recognized heavy weight champion. So I think the other title is what was the Pride heavyweight title.(?)

Hopefully, there will be only one champ after this. The sport doesn't need any of this Boxing mess, as far as titles go.


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## LordOfWu (Mar 4, 2009)

Hand Sword said:


> OK..but I thought the Couture/Lesnar fight was for the recognized UFC heavy weight title. If there was only one title, how could another 2 fight for it? Especially since, like it or not, Lesnar was the recognized heavy weight champion. So I think the other title is what was the Pride heavyweight title.(?)
> 
> Hopefully, there will be only one champ after this. The sport doesn't need any of this Boxing mess, as far as titles go.



Actually when Couture fought Lesnar for the 'official' or 'recognized' title, Nogiera already held the interim title.  I my moderately humble opinion  Nogiera deserved the first fight with Couture, Lesnar should have been forced to wait, or fight someone else until the belt was consolidated.  That's why there were two belts at the time of the fight for the recognized heavyweight title.  

I am pretty sure (but not 100%) that Fedor held the Pride heavyweight title when Pride was shut down, and he hasn't fought in UFC because he and Dana won't agree on terms (causing Dana to bad mouth Fedor and look like a tool, again in my moderately humble opinion).


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## Hand Sword (Mar 4, 2009)

:asian:


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## BrandonLucas (Mar 5, 2009)

Sandstorm said:


> I agree about the size issue with Couture and the possible need for a superheavy division. My concern is that it is becoming very much like WWF in it's overall appearance. I hope Muir wins, of course, because I feel he deserves it due to the time and years he's put in MMA. Now we get this lumbering colossus who is all brawl and next to no ability, wiping over the heavyweight division with brawn. Brock is a powerhouse. He's got bombs and he will drop them. If he has improved on his positions and transition work, he will most likely win, yes, due to the strength and size etc. I just don't want there to suddenly be a whole load of WWF crossover guys stomping into the UFc and discreditting the ability behind the rest of the fighters. If the spotlight shines on those big guys, it'll put the little guys out of a job and to me, it's the little guys who have made UFC and MMA what it is and what it should be. Not just a show, but a realistic combat sport.
> 
> Again, just my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
I see your point, but I want to throw this out there...

The first UFC's were basically just 2 guys getting in the Octagon with no weight limits, barely any rules, and just using the martial arts training that they had.  There was no speciality training for MMA in '93 when UFC came out.  So, alot of times, you had a David vs. Goliath match anyway.

For example, look at the very first fight in the UFC ever...Gerard Gordeau vs Teila Tuli....Gordeau was a skinny kickboxer, and Tuli was a 400+ lbs. Sumo Wrestler, and that fight ended in around 30 seconds with Gordeau the winner.

To me, the whole point of the UFC started as basically a proving ground for martial artists.  It tested the training of traditional martial artists, and pitted them against opponents of different weights, styles, strengths, shapes, etc...

Now, the UFC is an MMA sporting organization.  Nothing in the world wrong with that, but it changed in the fact that competitors have specific training that they do, and it's pretty much what they do all day, every day...as opposed to the "average martial artist" who more than likely does not live and breathe training.

All of that being said, the only thing that I see wrong with the fact that Lesnar is able to "ape" his way through the division is that he is able to do it at all.  Mir demonstrated once already that superior technique and strong training and conditioning can dominate over brute strenght.  If Lesnar beats him this time around, it very well could validate him as a technical fighter...provided that he were to actually win using technique over strength, anyway.

His ground game is honestly not terrible...he knows how to control his opponents on the ground...watching the Heath Herring fight was evidence of that...however, he doesn't appear to know what to do with them once they're on the ground.

And that, to me, sounds alot like Dan "The Beast" Severn.  He was a greco-roman wrestler who was a tough dude...he had great ground-n-pound, but was lacking in the subs department.  Sure, he would pull a sub for a win, but it was obvious that he had never really trained in any kind of JJ from watching him...it was more "common sense" kind of subs that he got.

Now, please don't misunderstand, I'm definitely *not* flagshipping Lesnar here.  I can't stand the guy, and I hope that Mir hands him a serious beat-down.  But I don't discredit him as a fighter, either.  So what if he has brute strength?  If that's what gives him the win, it's up to the other fighters to train and prepare for that.


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