# I don't want to be a competitive fighter, I want to be a human killing machine. Which arts ?



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

Hey guys. I do not have an interest i becoming a competitive fighter. I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth. Able to protect my family and others.
I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.
Based on this info, What are the right arts for me to study ?
Thank you very much.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

I suggest Sinanju. No more deadly art exists.


----------



## elder999

Bill Mattocks said:


> I suggest Sinanju. No more deadly art exists.


This question comes up, from time to time, and-while I favor Sinanju in some ways, my answer is always this:





(As many times as I've posted this, have any of you ever *watched* it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Steve

These guys are yanking your chain a little.   The real answer is BJJ.  No question.


----------



## zzj

Get a gun, or alternatively, a really big scary knife.


----------



## elder999

Steve said:


> These guys are yanking your chain a little.   The real answer is BJJ.  No question.


----------



## hoshin1600

There is only one art......Ameri-do-te. Everything else is bull crap.


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

Krav ?


----------



## Tames D

JKD with a Glock 27 in an ankle holster.


----------



## Dirty Dog

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Krav ?



I'd suggest starting with a reality check,.


----------



## Steve

Alaskan King Krav.


Dirty Dog said:


> I'd suggest starting with a reality check,.


Reality check?  is that a wing chun technique?


----------



## zzj

Steve said:


> Reality check?  is that a wing chun technique?



Obviously


----------



## Drose427

Therapy-Kwon-Do


----------



## drop bear

I think you will find competitive fighters are legitimate kill monsters.

Otherwise
 paul cale. 
Rob gruifrida. 
Dan Higgins.
Ian bone. 

Are probably the top trainers in Australia.


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

Dirty Dog said:


> I'd suggest starting with a reality check,.



Reality check ? isn't this the place to ask questions and discuss things ?
Yet you feel the need to jump on and be arrogant and rude.


----------



## hoshin1600

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Reality check ? isn't this the place to ask questions and discuss things ?
> Yet you feel the need to jump on and be arrogant and rude.



so if you haven't figured it out yet....everyone is mocking your question,  not you personally,,, but the wording and attitude that comes across in the way you worded your question.
even the name ...ruthless combat  comes across as something which most martial artists will have a negative reaction to.
martial artists are not "killing machines"  nor do we want to be.  the fact that you *do* want to be a killing machine says to us that your quite possibly in the wrong place.  if you want to be a killing machine go join an active force in the military.  im sure they will cure you of that.

if your just looking for an argument and on- line bravado/ machoism then im sure the moderators will be happy to see you "out"

in the rare possibility that your looking for guidance on what is an effective "self defense" art and you just made a bad first impression, im sure everyone will be happy to answer any questions you have ,, and welcome to MT


----------



## Dinkydoo

drop bear said:


> I think you will find competitive fighters are legitimate kill monsters.
> 
> Otherwise
> paul cale.
> Rob gruifrida.
> Dan Higgins.
> Ian bone.
> 
> Are probably the top trainers in Australia.


I was literally about to post the same. 

Watch any video of Buakaw and tell me that guy is not a killing machine. 

For the OP, if you really want to be a "killing machine" and not just an amazing fighter who looks more beast than man, join the Marines or something. At least there you'll actually be able to practice the killing part - future mental health issues may or may not be part of your training package.

Semi-serious answer: its mostly about training rather than what style you do (although that does make a difference). Find something you love doing and train it as hard as you can. Watch videos on the best guys in your chosen style and try to emulate them.


----------



## Jenna

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Hey guys. I do not have an interest i becoming a competitive fighter. I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth. Able to protect my family and others.
> I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.
> Based on this info, What are the right arts for me to study ?
> Thank you very much.


Hey.. 

Say you are in the unpleasant situation whereby you have justifiable cause to utilise a physical defence.  

Say then whomever you have used those physical technique upon is seriously injured or killed as a result of what might otherwise be proportional use of force on your part.

Surely you understand that this action coupled to your publicly posted and witnessed desire to become a "walking killing machine" and to deploy "LETHAL self defence" can subsequently condemn you within the law, or possibly worse, by the acquaintances of whomever you have seriously injured or killed? What will your family do then? You understand this consequence, right, I mean like in the REAL world and not Mad Max???

Jx


----------



## Jaeimseu

Steve said:


> Alaskan King Krav.
> 
> Reality check?  is that a wing chun technique?


Pretty sure that's when you actually play hockey instead of just thinking about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Xue Sheng

Australian.....killing machine...hmmm..... might I suggest starting here


----------



## Flatfish

elder999 said:


> This question comes up, from time to time, and-while I favor Sinanju in some ways, my answer is always this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (As many times as I've posted this, have any of you ever *watched* it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )




This looks very effective....the only downside I can see is your dry cleaning bill....


----------



## Tez3

I recommend 'Ecky Thump'.


----------



## Flying Crane

I remember seeing something about the Viking berserker arts, online.  Something about maximum violence and whatnot.  And something about a carrot.  Might be worth checking into...HAIL THOR!!!  HAIL ODIN!!!


----------



## Flying Crane

Wasn't there a Welsh thing as well?


----------



## Tez3

Flying Crane said:


> I remember seeing something about the Viking berserker arts, online.  Something about maximum violence and whatnot.  And something about a carrot.  Might be worth checking into...HAIL THOR!!!  HAIL ODIN!!!



I was at a Viking festival yesterday in Jorvik ( it's now called York, Ebor in Roman times incidentally) and it was great fun. Viking food, games, animals, ships and or course weapons! Loads of Vikings dressed up ( NO horns on helmets btw) demonstrating their weapons. I loved them but have to say I also loved the jewellery and silverwork, very sophisticated. Very sadly York was flooded badly earlier this year and the Jorvik Museum  was badly damaged but the festival is still going ahead. Meet the Experts | Bioarchaeology | Events | JORVIK Viking Festival

For the kids starting them young lol  Have-a-go Sword Combat | Events | JORVIK Viking Festival
The venue for this was also flooded but has reopened, it's 650 years old (same owners now as then) so is used to the caprices of the Rivers Ouse and Foss.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Flying Crane said:


> Wasn't there a Welsh thing as well?


Llap Goch


----------



## Buka

Things written on-line never go away. (They are like vindictive ex-wives) Years down the line, should you have the unfortunate experience of defending yourself and your assailant gets seriously hurt, the prosecutor will most likely have your OP printed out and shown on a big board in court. You might not even remember it by then, but trust me, they'll find it. He will address you as Mister Human Killing Machine.

That would be bad.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.


The only way I can imagine this happening is for you to .. well ... kill a lot of people.

About the only socially accepted avenue for this would be in the military. Even if you do join the military, odds are pretty good you won't ever kill anyone. If you did end up in a role that lead to killing a lot of people, odds are it wouldn't actually make you particularly happy to have done so, unless you happen to be a sociopath.

If you are a sociopath, you might check into the Australian market for serial killers. You don't need any particular martial arts training, just access to weapons, isolated victims, and a disregard for human life.


----------



## elder999

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Krav ?




There are several flavors of krav maga.One or two of them really are sophisticated H2H combat methods developed for combat.

Most of the commercially available ones? Some of those are fine, but "H2H combat?"

Not so much

Seriously,though,  "a killing machine?"

As someone who knows a little about "killing machines," -again-*not so much.*


----------



## Tez3

Tony Dismukes said:


> The only way I can imagine this happening is for you to .. well ... kill a lot of people.
> 
> About the only socially accepted avenue for this would be in the military. Even if you do join the military, odds are pretty good you won't ever kill anyone. If you did end up in a role that lead to killing a lot of people, odds are it wouldn't actually make you particularly happy to have done so, unless you happen to be a sociopath.
> 
> If you are a sociopath, you might check into the Australian market for serial killers. You don't need any particular martial arts training, just access to weapons, isolated victims, and a disregard for human life.



The chances are too that if you go around killing a bunch of people even in the military you will end up in court facing charges of murder and/or crimes against humanity.


----------



## Flatfish

Tony Dismukes said:


> Llap Goch



If I wasn't already married this would be my go to....obviously


----------



## hoshin1600

Makes me wonder how many sociopaths work in the meat processing industry.  
Maybe all that's needed is a change in employment.


----------



## elder999

hoshin1600 said:


> Makes me wonder how many sociopaths work in the meat processing industry.
> Maybe all that's needed is a change in employment.



Far less than there are in politics, I'd wager......or the police....

......._or *science*_


----------



## Tez3

If the OP wishes to disgust and to be reviled by people perhaps he might want to think again. This is a murder case that is going on at the moment, everyone who reads or hears the details feels sick and cannot believe two human beings let alone children could do this to a helpless woman, this actually goes beyond being sociopaths, it's downright evil. Many blame parents although the girls were in care, many blame modern life but the truth here is that these girls have something in them that no amount of discipline, love even or having a decent upbringing could help. They aren't mentally ill, just wicked to the core. If the OP is of a similar mindset then karma will come for him...because there is always, always someone bigger, harder and nastier out there how tough you think you are.

Warning this makes upsetting reading.   House where schoolgirls allegedly killed woman was like a 'bombsite', court told


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tony Dismukes said:


> Llap Goch


Has anyone ever put an email address into the bottom to see if there is some sort of automated message involved?


----------



## Flying Crane

Tony Dismukes said:


> Llap Goch


Ah yes, that's the ticket!


----------



## Tony Dismukes

kempodisciple said:


> Has anyone ever put an email address into the bottom to see if there is some sort of automated message involved?


The form you submitted has not been processed. Reason as follows:
Sioux(TM) 3.4 Web server CGI script exception:
0104d Service revoked
0188E* Client account suspended (id=agv name="Arthur Gannet (Violence) Ltd")
0188E-
0188E-  Finance department note :-
0188E-   We have been unable to contact Mr Gannet for over two months .
0188E-   If anyone knows the whereabouts of Mr Gannet please contact
0188E-  the SlaterNet accounts department urgently as his account is
0188E-  overdue for payment  --tjs


----------



## ShawnP

yo people on here might be getting a good laugh about this bt did it ever occur to you that this guy MIGHT be serious, and yeah might be a sociopath? and your giving him ideas! Honestly the first thought that came to me was, does this guy have access to guns? and yet someone says gee go get a gun...maybe the moderators should just remove his post all together, id hate to watch the news and see yet another moron do some thing stupid for 15 minutes of fame...BTW im new to this site, love it, except for this thread.


----------



## ShawnP

ShawnP said:


> yo people on here might be getting a good laugh about this but did it ever occur to you that this guy MIGHT be serious, and yeah might be a sociopath? and your giving him ideas! Honestly the first thought that came to me was, does this guy have access to guns? and yet someone says gee go get a gun...maybe the moderators should just remove his post all together, id hate to watch the news and see yet another moron do some thing stupid for 15 minutes of fame...BTW im new to this site, love it, except for this thread.


----------



## Tez3

kempodisciple said:


> Has anyone ever put an email address into the bottom to see if there is some sort of automated message involved?



It might say it's a Welsh art but the address on the bottom is from the opposite side of the country, Lowestoft. The name 'Gannet' coming from a seaside town is suspect lol. However if you do put anything in you get this. Funnily enough the website hosting service comes not far from Lowestoft 

The form you submitted has not been processed. Reason as follows:
Sioux(TM) 3.4 Web server CGI script exception:
0104d Service revoked
0188E* Client account suspended (id=agv name="Arthur Gannet (Violence) Ltd")
0188E-
0188E-  Finance department note :-
0188E-   We have been unable to contact Mr Gannet for over two months .
0188E-   If anyone knows the whereabouts of Mr Gannet please contact
0188E-  the SlaterNet accounts department urgently as his account is
0188E-  overdue for payment  --tjs


----------



## Tez3

ShawnP said:


> yo people on here might be getting a good laugh about this bt did it ever occur to you that this guy MIGHT be serious, and yeah might be a sociopath? and your giving him ideas! Honestly the first thought that came to me was, does this guy have access to guns? and yet someone says gee go get a gun...maybe the moderators should just remove his post all together, id hate to watch the news and see yet another moron do some thing stupid for 15 minutes of fame...BTW im new to this site, love it, except for this thread.




If he is a sociopath then he won't need any ideas from us, if he tries any of our suggestions then good luck to him, it would be very funny to watch.
Welcome to MT!


----------



## Buka

ShawnP, welcome to MT, bro.


----------



## elder999

ShawnP said:


> yo people on here might be getting a good laugh about this bt did it ever occur to you that this guy MIGHT be serious, and yeah might be a sociopath? and your giving him ideas! Honestly the first thought that came to me was, does this guy have access to guns? and yet someone says gee go get a gun...maybe the moderators should just remove his post all together, id hate to watch the news and see yet another moron do some thing stupid for 15 minutes of fame...BTW im new to this site, love it, except for this thread.



I can say from experience that a sociopath doesn't need advice from almost anyone on Martial Talk on how to become a "killing machine," just the motivation to become one...


----------



## Touch Of Death

I would direct any sociopath to a martial arts school. It is a good place to start paying attention to yourself in a more constructive way.


----------



## Touch Of Death

Sinanju is my choice, as well. I don't see how suggesting it can cause the world any harm. It is very hard to find a good teacher, though. Most martial artists, these days, a charlatans, and pajama dancers.


----------



## JowGaWolf

Any martial art teacher with such deadly skills wouldn't teach you. Martial arts is like having a gun.:
. The only people you want to have a gun are the ones who don't want to be a killing machine.


----------



## Steve

JowGaWolf said:


> Any martial art teacher with such deadly skills wouldn't teach you. Martial arts is like having a gun.:
> . The only people you want to have a gun are the ones who don't want to be a killing machine.


what???   That's downright unamerican!!


----------



## JowGaWolf

Steve said:


> what???   That's downright unamerican!!


lol no comment. And looking for my DO NO OPEN sticker for this can.


----------



## Touch Of Death

Steve said:


> what???   That's downright unamerican!!


Anything that gets them is the door, is cool.


----------



## drop bear

Tony Dismukes said:


> The only way I can imagine this happening is for you to .. well ... kill a lot of people.
> 
> About the only socially accepted avenue for this would be in the military. Even if you do join the military, odds are pretty good you won't ever kill anyone. If you did end up in a role that lead to killing a lot of people, odds are it wouldn't actually make you particularly happy to have done so, unless you happen to be a sociopath.
> 
> If you are a sociopath, you might check into the Australian market for serial killers. You don't need any particular martial arts training, just access to weapons, isolated victims, and a disregard for human life.



Actually our army frowns on that sort of attitude. Prefers people lean towards professionalism.


----------



## Touch Of Death

drop bear said:


> Actually our army frowns on that sort of attitude. Prefers people lean towards professionalism.


He sounds like an ISIS man. They love that stuff.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

drop bear said:


> Actually our army frowns on that sort of attitude. Prefers people lean towards professionalism.


Exactly. Some soldiers end up having to kill others in combat. A small percentage end killing a fair number. In general, that happens because the circumstances demand it - not because they _want_ to. If I were a commanding officer, I would be concerned about a soldier who indicated he was looking forward to killing and wanted to rack up a significant body count.


----------



## crazydiamond

Become the CEO of  Philip Morris.


----------



## Touch Of Death

Tony Dismukes said:


> Exactly. Some soldiers end up having to kill others in combat. A small percentage end killing a fair number. In general, that happens because the circumstances demand it - not because they _want_ to. If I were a commanding officer, I would be concerned about a soldier who indicated he was looking forward to killing and wanted to rack up a significant body count.


Wow, just wow. Have you ever been near an infantryman? That's all they know how to talk about.


----------



## Touch Of Death

crazydiamond said:


> Become the CEO of  Philip Morris.


Food inspectors.


----------



## Dirty Dog

ShawnP said:


> yo people on here might be getting a good laugh about this bt did it ever occur to you that this guy MIGHT be serious, and yeah might be a sociopath? and your giving him ideas! Honestly the first thought that came to me was, does this guy have access to guns? and yet someone says gee go get a gun...maybe the moderators should just remove his post all together, id hate to watch the news and see yet another moron do some thing stupid for 15 minutes of fame...BTW im new to this site, love it, except for this thread.



If he's really a sociopath, rather than a clueless buffoon who has deluded himself into thinking that Hollywood portrayals of a single unarmed person defeating 50 armed bad guys is real, then he doesn't need us to tell him to get a gun. He will have already gotten that from the media.

Personally, I think he'd be best served by anonymous online training, which he can get HERE, or perhaps HERE. Or possibly HERE might be a better option.


----------



## drop bear

Touch Of Death said:


> Wow, just wow. Have you ever been near an infantryman? That's all they know how to talk about.


Two of the guys i mentioned in that postr earlier were veterans. One of them.  Killed, didn't kill a guy with his bare hands.

Can't say either of them constantly gab on about it.


----------



## Touch Of Death

drop bear said:


> Two of the guys i mentioned in that postr earlier were veterans. One of them.  Killed, didn't kill a guy with his bare hands.
> 
> Can't say either of them constantly gab on about it.


New recruits gab on.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Touch Of Death said:


> New recruits gab on.



That would be because new recruits are delusional and clueless about the realities of killing.


----------



## Touch Of Death

Dirty Dog said:


> That would be because new recruits are delusional and clueless about the realities of killing.


Yeah, and we work with that. We don't send them away. LOL


----------



## Tez3

Touch Of Death said:


> Wow, just wow. Have you ever been near an infantryman? That's all they know how to talk about.



No, shagging comes first, second and third then booze, boobs, sports, boobs, mate's missus (boobs) cartoons ( films) and boobs.
They don't think or talk about killing much these days, the recruits' instructors back from Afghan explain it explicitly to them and the trained soldiers do anything but think about it, various degrees of PTSD.


----------



## drop bear

Yeah that is why i have no issue with kill monster op.  It is not really like he wants to go out there and do bad things. 

Just sounds a bit exited.

All of those clubs are serious buisnes.  He wont have delusions for very long.


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.
I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.
Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.
To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.


----------



## Touch Of Death

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.
> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.
> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.
> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.


Kenpo, then.


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

I have heard Kenpo is good. The problem is finding a decent Dojo around my area.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.


Considering that you stated "I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth." and "I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.", it's pretty reasonable to assume you were asking for an art to help you kill people.
As for an actual answer, what is near you? Without that info any advice is kind of pointless, since we may suggest something youd have to drive 2 hours to get to.


----------



## drop bear

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have heard Kenpo is good. The problem is finding a decent Dojo around my area.



Kempo would blow your brain up. It is very structured.

Bugger. I was thinking kendo.

There almost isn't kempo in Australia.


----------



## Tez3

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.
> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.
> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.
> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.



Quite frankly what did you expect when you wrote your OP? You sounded like an over excited teenage boy or a rampant nutter. This is a serious ( though with a sense of humour) martial arts site, if you had explained what type of training you wanted then you would have all the help you wanted. Far from 'dissing' you, we feel that you were 'dissing' serious martial artists and instructors, some very senior and experienced by your gauche and glandular posting. Calling people idiots isn't going to improve matters any.

However, a couple of posts made here have very serious advice for you, you have written your post and it will be on the internet forever, any action of yours that may go to court or just be investigated by police will be influenced by your phrases. It's standard operating procedures now to go through social media for information on people involved in any criminal offence, this will include you in whichever part you played in an attack. You could be defending yourself but find you have been put in the role of the aggressor by a good lawyer because of what you wrote here.


----------



## ShawnP

*Hi, Im new here as well. i appologize if you were offended by my post, maybe explain a bit more so your post wont be misconstrued. im not sure how up to date this is, ive been out of the MA scene for about 20 years.

Kara-Ho Kempo  

Australia:*

 1. Melbourne

Sensei Andrew Fitzgerald 

E-mail: info@karaho.com


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

I have Krav near me that I attended the other night and I really enjoyed it.
It was only a basic class. Apart from that, Just your normal BJJ, Karate, Taekwondo, Boxing, Wrestling ect.


----------



## drop bear

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have Krav near me that I attended the other night and I really enjoyed it.
> It was only a basic class. Apart from that, Just your normal BJJ, Karate, Taekwondo, Boxing, Wrestling ect.



Is there any Arnis escrima or philipino stuff?

Supposed to be gaining ground in Sydney.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Yes, check out South East Asian systems from the Philippines or Indonesia.  That might be what you are looking for as they have a heavy weapon based training regimen that translates to empty hands.


----------



## JowGaWolf

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have heard Kenpo is good. The problem is finding a decent Dojo around my area.


 This is pretty much the case with all Martial Arts fighting systems.  Finding a good school isn't as easy as it should be.


----------



## JowGaWolf

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have Krav near me that I attended the other night and I really enjoyed it.
> It was only a basic class. Apart from that, Just your normal BJJ, Karate, Taekwondo, Boxing, Wrestling ect.


See if there's a good Jow Ga School around you since they do weapons training as well.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Touch Of Death said:


> Yeah, and we work with that. We don't send them away. LOL



You send them to places where they are exposed to the realities. And then they stop gabbing about it.


----------



## Ironbear24

Everyone here is wrong. Hokuto No Ken is the most lethal art, and a weakling like you has no place near it, it is reserved for those who are gifted in the arts. Go home and be a family man before you hurt yourself.


----------



## Dirty Dog

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.



Pardon my bluntness, but Whoop De Freakin Doo. 
And with your vast experience, you haven't learned anything about defensive fighting?



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.



Then get a weapon. Realistic defense against a weapon requires you to use a weapon. Otherwise, the odds are drastically against you. Always.



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.



I linked places that claim to provide what you want.



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.



And that changes anything how?

If you post something that makes you look like either a raving loon or a delusion buffoon, you shouldn't be shocked that people will response as if you're either a raving loon or a delusional buffoon.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Dirty Dog said:


> Then get a weapon. Realistic defense against a weapon requires you to use a weapon. Otherwise, the odds are drastically against you. Always.


I would disagree with this. Not with exactly what you said, but with the implication there-that the only way you should train against a weapon is with a weapon. While it will help tremendously, if you are in a SD situation where they are close to you before you know somethings wrong, your weapon might be useless if you cant get it out in time.
Also, even if you have a weapon, you still need training in how to use it to defend yourself (I believe in Australia the gun laws are really strict, so he would have to use something other than a gun, I may be wrong here).


----------



## RTKDCMB

Instead of studying martial arts I would suggest you study some pamphlets for some of the fine mental institutions that are in your area.


----------



## RTKDCMB

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.


Hopefully psychopathy skips a generation.


----------



## Flatfish

Tez3 said:


> .....your gauche and glandular posting
> .



I just love the term  "glandular"....it will become a fixture in my vocabulary


----------



## Bill Mattocks

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.
> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.
> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.
> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.



I think I understand. Welcome to MT. Now go away.


----------



## elder999

Steve said:


> These guys are yanking your chain a little.   The real answer is BJJ.  No question.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand. I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.
> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.
> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.
> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.
> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.


Thanks for the clarification.

For the record, no amount of training in weapons defense will lead to you being known as a "human killing machine."

The best formulation I've encountered for describing the goal of training defense against weapons comes from Marc Denny - "Die Less Often." No martial art will make you into the movie hero who effortlessly dispatches multiple armed attackers with your lethal technique. The best you can hope for is to improve your odds so that in multiple alternate universes where you are attacked by someone trying to kill you with a knife you end up dying in fewer of them. (Actually, that's the best you can hope for in those timelines where you are actually attacked by someone trying to kill you with a knife. In real life the better and more likely outcome is that this never happens.)

In general, the best arts for learning how to defend against weapons are weapons-based arts, such as Kali. This is for two reasons. First - fighting unarmed against weapons is always a serious disadvantage, no matter how good your technique is. Secondly - weapons-based systems generally have a more realistic concept of how someone might actually use a weapon against you.

Even weapons-based systems can have their drawbacks. Often they are taught in a context which implies a weapons duel rather than an assault. (One key difference - someone who is trying to murder you with a knife will do their best to do so before you have a chance to deploy your own weapon ... or even see them coming for that matter.) Still, a good FMA school might be a good place to start.


----------



## RuthlessCombat_Australia

Bill Mattocks said:


> I think I understand. Welcome to MT. Now go away.


No need to be rude. I am on MT to avoid keyboard heros -.-


----------



## Tez3

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> No need to be rude. I am on MT to avoid keyboard heros -.-



'heroes'


----------



## Tames D

.


----------



## Tames D

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> No need to be rude. I am on MT to avoid keyboard heros -.-


Welcome to our friendly martial arts site,  LOL


----------



## RTKDCMB

Have you tried Fujitsu?


----------



## ShawnP

now thats a lot of different kinds of Beer!, wont mixing them make you sick?


----------



## elder999

ShawnP said:


> now thats a lot of different kinds of Beer!, wont mixing them make you sick?


Not much of a drinker, are you son?


----------



## ShawnP

no, im a bad man when i drink, i just cant seem to stop when I've had enough.


----------



## elder999

ShawnP said:


> no, im a bad man when i drink, i just cant seem to stop when I've had enough.



That's really where that whole "mixing them" thing comes from: it's not like a beer and a shot, or a beer and a glass of wine, or even champagne and a shot are going to make you sick- each of them is just two drinks. By the time most people get to the "mixing them" stage, though, they've had too much to drink.

And beer is beer. Mixing them shouldn't do a goddam thing.

Except for $h!t like Budweiser, Coors, and PBR, which will make anyone sick.....just like sex in a canoe!

(They're all f@cking near water!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Steve

elder999 said:


> That's really where that whole "mixing them" thing comes from: it's not like a beer and a shot, or a beer and a glass of wine, or even champagne and a shot are going to make you sick- each of them is just two drinks. By the time most people get to the "mixing them" stage, though, they've had too much to drink.
> 
> And beer is beer. Mixing them shouldn't do a goddam thing.
> 
> Except for $h!t like Budweiser, Coors, and PBR, which will make anyone sick.....just like sex in a canoe!
> 
> (They're all f@cking near water!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Props for the Monty Python joke.  Warning, they don't censor the joke on YouTube.  Funny bit, but I don't like fosters much better than I like coors.


----------



## kuniggety

elder999 said:


> And beer is beer. Mixing them shouldn't do a goddam thing.
> 
> Except for $h!t like Budweiser, Coors, and PBR, which will make anyone sick.....just like sex in a canoe!



We make some of the most god awful mass produced beer here in the US. I think in microbrew though, we're kings. Sam Adams is about the only exception to this... mass produced but still pretty good.


----------



## elder999

kuniggety said:


> We make some of the most god awful mass produced beer here in the US. I think in microbrew though, we're kings. Sam Adams is about the only exception to this... mass produced but still pretty good.


Like so many products, Sam Adams quality diminished greatly when they increased production. Sam is fine when there's nothing better,. but here's usually something better.....even that stuff that they call "Guinness" with the rocket in the bottle.....


----------



## Tez3

It has to be Irish Guinness. Micro breweries, we have had them here for donkey's years lol.  These are ours Ales in the Dales


----------



## RTKDCMB

ShawnP said:


> now thats a lot of different kinds of Beer!,


Fujitsu is a mixed martial art.


----------



## Tez3

RTKDCMB said:


> Fujitsu is a mixed martial art.



Fujitsu UK


----------



## Chris Parker

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Hey guys. I do not have an interest i becoming a competitive fighter. I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth. Able to protect my family and others.
> I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.
> Based on this info, What are the right arts for me to study ?
> Thank you very much.



On face value, nothing. You should be kept completely away from anything close to it, if your aim is as stated. But frankly, I don't think you have even begun to think about what you've actually asked… and is full of simple movie-influenced delusion and fantasy.



elder999 said:


> This question comes up, from time to time, and-while I favor Sinanju in some ways, my answer is always this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (As many times as I've posted this, have any of you ever *watched* it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Ha, every time… 



Tames D said:


> JKD with a Glock 27 in an ankle holster.



Not in Australia.



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Reality check ? isn't this the place to ask questions and discuss things ?
> Yet you feel the need to jump on and be arrogant and rude.



You asked a frankly ludicrous question, phrased it as fantasy warrior as you could, and you're surprised by the responses? Dude. Grow up.



Touch Of Death said:


> I would direct any sociopath to a martial arts school. It is a good place to start paying attention to yourself in a more constructive way.



I wouldn't. At all. It's the last thing I'd direct them to, as it's simply not a "cure" in the slightest… in fact, one line of thought has it that martial arts are more of an amplifier than anything else… good becomes better, bad becomes worse… so no, it's the last thing I'd recommend. Of course, the problem is identifying a sociopath when they walk in the door in the first place… 



JowGaWolf said:


> Any martial art teacher with such deadly skills wouldn't teach you. Martial arts is like having a gun.:
> . The only people you want to have a gun are the ones who don't want to be a killing machine.



Lovely fantasy, but again, not realistic in the slightest. Again, the issue is identifying the sociopath in the first place… for that matter, how do you accurately recognise the wife-beater when they turn up in a suit and tie? The abusive parent when they walk in the door? The fact is that you can't. Obviously, should you become aware of it, it's a good idea to remove that person from your school… but you won't be able to stop them going somewhere else, for the record.

Oh, and "martial arts is like having a gun"? Ha! Not overtly… 



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> All of you guys that are dissing my post clearly don't understand.



Frankly son, you clearly don't understand how lunatic you came across (and, honestly, continue to). 



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have years of training in competitive Muay Thai and also BJJ. I have competed in 4 Mma contests.



Great. So what?



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I want realistic self defence to protect myself against weapons.



Okay… that's a fear you have… tell me, are you commonly associating with people who carry weapons and assault you? How much do you realistically expect to need such a specialised defensive skill? And what weapons do you think you'll need to defend against? What will be the most likely scenario? Is it an attack, or a threat? Do you understand the differences?



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Human Killing Machine was a description I used to explain the level of training i am looking for.



Then you really should have chosen better, as it implies a result, not a level of training… and a fantasy based one at that.



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> To all of you idiots assuming I am a Psychopath, I have 2 children and a wife.



For one thing, no-one mentioned the term "psychopath"… they said "sociopath"… a bit different… for another, do you want a list of psychopaths (and sociopaths) who have families? Do you really think one precludes the other?



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I would never kill someone unless my life of my families life were threatened.



So… you want to be a "Human Killing Machine" (incidentally, that can be read two ways… a person who is a human embodiment of a killing machine, and someone who is a machine at killing humans… hmm), you want to be "known as the most lethal person on the planet"… but you would "never kill someone"???

Dude, can you see the issue here?

Lose the fantasy based rhetoric, you just look like a fool.



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> I have Krav near me that I attended the other night and I really enjoyed it.
> It was only a basic class. Apart from that, Just your normal BJJ, Karate, Taekwondo, Boxing, Wrestling ect.



You're in Sydney, and you think this is all that's around you? Dude… I could point you in the direction of some arts that are far more seriously in line with what you've asked for… but frankly, you've failed completely at being even close to being suitable to be offered an introduction… 



RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> No need to be rude. I am on MT to avoid keyboard heros -.-



You really might want to look at your own posts, then.


----------



## marques

RuthlessCombat_Australia said:


> Hey guys. I do not have an interest i becoming a competitive fighter. I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth. Able to protect my family and others.
> I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine.
> Based on this info, What are the right arts for me to study ?
> Thank you very much.


Well... nowadays there are weapons... but it is not my advice!
My advice is go to a psychiatrist, please!! Or just change your entire environment / neighbourhood...


----------



## seasoned

_*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*_

*Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.*

Wes Yager
Senior MT Moderator.


----------



## Touch Of Death

Chris Parker said:


> On face value, nothing. You should be kept completely away from anything close to it, if your aim is as stated. But frankly, I don't think you have even begun to think about what you've actually asked… and is full of simple movie-influenced delusion and fantasy.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, every time…
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked a frankly ludicrous question, phrased it as fantasy warrior as you could, and you're surprised by the responses? Dude. Grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't. At all. It's the last thing I'd direct them to, as it's simply not a "cure" in the slightest… in fact, one line of thought has it that martial arts are more of an amplifier than anything else… good becomes better, bad becomes worse… so no, it's the last thing I'd recommend. Of course, the problem is identifying a sociopath when they walk in the door in the first place…
> 
> 
> 
> Lovely fantasy, but again, not realistic in the slightest. Again, the issue is identifying the sociopath in the first place… for that matter, how do you accurately recognise the wife-beater when they turn up in a suit and tie? The abusive parent when they walk in the door? The fact is that you can't. Obviously, should you become aware of it, it's a good idea to remove that person from your school… but you won't be able to stop them going somewhere else, for the record.
> 
> Oh, and "martial arts is like having a gun"? Ha! Not overtly…
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly son, you clearly don't understand how lunatic you came across (and, honestly, continue to).
> 
> 
> 
> Great. So what?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay… that's a fear you have… tell me, are you commonly associating with people who carry weapons and assault you? How much do you realistically expect to need such a specialised defensive skill? And what weapons do you think you'll need to defend against? What will be the most likely scenario? Is it an attack, or a threat? Do you understand the differences?
> 
> 
> 
> Then you really should have chosen better, as it implies a result, not a level of training… and a fantasy based one at that.
> 
> 
> 
> For one thing, no-one mentioned the term "psychopath"… they said "sociopath"… a bit different… for another, do you want a list of psychopaths (and sociopaths) who have families? Do you really think one precludes the other?
> 
> 
> 
> So… you want to be a "Human Killing Machine" (incidentally, that can be read two ways… a person who is a human embodiment of a killing machine, and someone who is a machine at killing humans… hmm), you want to be "known as the most lethal person on the planet"… but you would "never kill someone"???
> 
> Dude, can you see the issue here?
> 
> Lose the fantasy based rhetoric, you just look like a fool.
> 
> 
> 
> You're in Sydney, and you think this is all that's around you? Dude… I could point you in the direction of some arts that are far more seriously in line with what you've asked for… but frankly, you've failed completely at being even close to being suitable to be offered an introduction…
> 
> 
> 
> You really might want to look at your own posts, then.


So I should ask them if they sell cars? Do you know what a sociopath is? I didn't say psychopath.


----------



## JowGaWolf

Chris Parker said:


> Lovely fantasy, but again, not realistic in the slightest. Again, the issue is identifying the sociopath in the first place… for that matter, how do you accurately recognise the wife-beater when they turn up in a suit and tie? The abusive parent when they walk in the door? The fact is that you can't. Obviously, should you become aware of it, it's a good idea to remove that person from your school… but you won't be able to stop them going somewhere else, for the record.
> 
> Oh, and "martial arts is like having a gun"? Ha! Not overtly


Martial art instructors don't have to identify sociopaths, they only have to identify people with the wrong attitude and wrong assumptions about martial arts.   I've seen my Sifu turn people away because their perception of what martial arts is was wrong. There are actually rules that my system follows that refers to what type of people we can teach the system to.  It's the same rule that all of the Sifu follow.  I've seen my Sifu turn people away. 

Just like you didn't make any effort to tone down your statement about being the most "lethal human" people come to the school and say similar things and we turn them away.  

I can't stop someone from going somewhere else to learn a martial art technique for the purpose of being cruel, but I can decide if I teach that person or not.  Just like I can't stop a criminal from going somewhere else to get a gun, but I can choose not to sell a gun to someone who I think shouldn't have one.


----------



## JowGaWolf

My point is that your statements
"I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth."  and "I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine."  are so far from the truth on what Martial Arts is really about.  These are the 2 things you'll probably never feel when taking a martial art.


----------



## Touch Of Death

JowGaWolf said:


> My point is that your statements
> "I want to become one of the most lethal human beings walking the earth."  and "I want one day to be known as a walking killing machine."  are so far from the truth on what Martial Arts is really about.  These are the 2 things you'll probably never feel when taking a martial art.


I think the OP was being a little more tongue and cheek that you guys can handle.


----------



## JowGaWolf

Touch Of Death said:


> I think the OP was being a little more tongue and cheek that you guys can handle.


if that's the case then it definitely when over my head.  He should start another post to clarify.


----------



## Touch Of Death

JowGaWolf said:


> if that's the case then it definitely when over my head.  He should start another post to clarify.


I always joke with people that I can turn their child into a Killing machine. It's funny.


----------



## Ironbear24

Touch Of Death said:


> I always joke with people that I can turn their child into a Killing machine. It's funny.



I got turned into a cuddle machine that can defend his own life and others.


----------



## Tames D

Touch Of Death said:


> I think the OP was being a little more tongue and cheek that you guys can handle.


I agree. It's always fun to see this "Friendly Martial Arts Community" get carried away and do the famous 'pile on the newbie".


----------



## drop bear

Tames D said:


> I agree. It's always fun to see this "Friendly Martial Arts Community" get carried away and do the famous 'pile on the newbie".



At least we are not hung up on grammar and spelling this time.


----------



## Touch Of Death

drop bear said:


> At least we are not hung up on grammar and spelling this time.


Wow! That was a mess.


----------



## Kenpoguy123

You want to be know as a killing machine? Really well good luck with that maybe we'll see your name on the news for doing life in prison.


----------



## Langenschwert

Ironbear24 said:


> I got turned into a cuddle machine that can defend his own life and others.



I'm also all about the cuddles. 

The unfortunate thing about being a lethal human being is that you'd have to kill people to ascertain that, which is to be avoided if possible. Military applications aside, you'd never get a chance to find out. That would be a Good Thing (TM). Don't kill people, people are for living. ☺ Try not to hurt them either, it makes them sad. 

Funny thing is, some of the most potentially lethal folks around are sport martial artists. I wouldn't throw down with a good collegiate wrestler if I could avoid it.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Langenschwert said:


> The unfortunate thing about being a lethal human being is that you'd have to kill people to ascertain that, which is to be avoided if possible.



That's really not true. 
I've got a Glock 19 on my hip right now. I do not need to shoot someone to know I can kill someone with it.
I've got a Benchmade Autostryker in my pocket. I do not need to stab someone to know I can kill someone with it.
I've got a me sitting in front of this computer. I do not need to kill someone to know I can do so.


----------



## mograph

I don't think we're lethal until we've actually killed someone. 
Otherwise, we're _potentially_ lethal.


----------



## Dirty Dog

mograph said:


> I don't think we're lethal until we've actually killed someone.
> Otherwise, we're _potentially_ lethal.



I prefer to stick with standard definitions:



> sufficient to cause death.
> "a lethal cocktail of alcohol and pills"
> harmful or destructive.
> "the Krakatoa eruption was the most lethal on record"
> synonyms: fatal, deadly, mortal, death-dealing, life-threatening, murderous, killing


----------



## mograph

Dirty Dog said:


> I prefer to stick with standard definitions:


Ah -- I see. _Capable_ of killing = lethal? Agreed.


----------



## Langenschwert

Dirty Dog said:


> That's really not true.
> I've got a Glock 19 on my hip right now. I do not need to shoot someone to know I can kill someone with it.
> I've got a Benchmade Autostryker in my pocket. I do not need to stab someone to know I can kill someone with it.
> I've got a me sitting in front of this computer. I do not need to kill someone to know I can do so.



Given the right tools and training, any of us could be physically capable of lethal action, but how many, when push comes to shove, could enact? Given historical rates of fire, not many, unless subjected to sufficient conditioning.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Langenschwert said:


> Given the right tools and training, any of us could be physically capable of lethal action, but how many, when push comes to shove, could enact? Given historical rates of fire, not many, unless subjected to sufficient conditioning.



Again, even though I have never killed anyone, I know I am psychologically capable. Mr Mugger didn't survive because I held back.
You do have to do an honest self evaluation, but your statement that you cannot know without actually killing is simply wrong.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Basically







Still lethal whether things are killed or not


----------



## ShawnP

Xue Sheng said:


> Basically
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still lethal whether things are killed or not


I LOVE this, just made my day!


----------



## Chris Parker

Touch Of Death said:


> So I should ask them if they sell cars? Do you know what a sociopath is? I didn't say psychopath.



Not really following you there… as you've quoted my entire post, I'm going to assume you're responding to my only comment about your previous post (that I would not suggest sending someone identified as a sociopath to a martial art school), yeah? Are you suggesting that all car salesmen are sociopaths? Or that only car salesmen are? 

Seriously, this in no way addresses anything I said… and yes, I'm very well aware of what a sociopath is… and I never suggested you said psychopath… in fact, I go to pains to point out to the OP that he brought that term in himself. Would you like to try again, if there's something you would argue in my comments?



JowGaWolf said:


> Martial art instructors don't have to identify sociopaths, they only have to identify people with the wrong attitude and wrong assumptions about martial arts.



This is not only not what I was saying, it's also patently incorrect. If you're going to have some kind of identification process for who you will teach, you need to be able to identify them in the first place… so yeah, you do have to identify sociopaths (which was the context of the comment at the time). As far as "wrong attitude and wrong assumptions", that can be corrected… sociopathic tendencies, not so much… hence your ideas being based in movie fantasy far more than reality.



JowGaWolf said:


> I've seen my Sifu turn people away because their perception of what martial arts is was wrong. There are actually rules that my system follows that refers to what type of people we can teach the system to.  It's the same rule that all of the Sifu follow.  I've seen my Sifu turn people away.



Okay… many systems and schools have their own rules… some written, some not. But that's again not the point… the point was how you can tell that someone has these bad tendencies, sociopathic or whatever, when they come along to your school? Especially if they're polite, well dressed at the school, but when they get home, they abuse their family? How do you know? 



JowGaWolf said:


> Just like you didn't make any effort to tone down your statement about being the most "lethal human" people come to the school and say similar things and we turn them away.



Er… I think you're getting confused about who you're replying to there… besides which, a truly sociopathic person often wouldn't say such things… they're incredibly good at hiding intentions when it suits their purposes… so again, how could you tell? Are you saying you (and your sifu) rely on people telling them that they beat up their wives at night? That they enjoy torturing puppies? Really?   



JowGaWolf said:


> I can't stop someone from going somewhere else to learn a martial art technique for the purpose of being cruel, but I can decide if I teach that person or not.  Just like I can't stop a criminal from going somewhere else to get a gun, but I can choose not to sell a gun to someone who I think shouldn't have one.



Look, your personal decision about who you teach has never been in question… the question was how can you tell who you wouldn't teach? How can you tell that this person, who appears so "normal" when you meet them, but is really hitting his kids each night, is someone you wouldn't teach? I'm not talking about if you find out down the track, but when they first come to talk about lessons.



Touch Of Death said:


> I think the OP was being a little more tongue and cheek that you guys can handle.



Based on….?



Touch Of Death said:


> I always joke with people that I can turn their child into a Killing machine. It's funny.



Okay, so because you've personally joked that you will turn children into killers, that means that the OP, who has gone to pains to confirm his phrasing in this and other threads, must have been joking as well? Really?



Langenschwert said:


> I'm also all about the cuddles.
> 
> The unfortunate thing about being a lethal human being is that you'd have to kill people to ascertain that, which is to be avoided if possible. Military applications aside, you'd never get a chance to find out. That would be a Good Thing (TM). Don't kill people, people are for living. ☺ Try not to hurt them either, it makes them sad.



Ha, agreed!



Langenschwert said:


> Funny thing is, some of the most potentially lethal folks around are sport martial artists. I wouldn't throw down with a good collegiate wrestler if I could avoid it.



Same… but, by the same token, I don't know that I'd necessarily consider them the most "lethal"… after all, would he be trying to kill me? Or just "beat" me? Personally, I consider people with weapons the most "potentially lethal" folks around… at least, from a physical capability standpoint… that said… 



Dirty Dog said:


> That's really not true.
> I've got a Glock 19 on my hip right now. I do not need to shoot someone to know I can kill someone with it.
> I've got a Benchmade Autostryker in my pocket. I do not need to stab someone to know I can kill someone with it.
> I've got a me sitting in front of this computer. I do not need to kill someone to know I can do so.



Physical capability is one thing, mental and emotional capability is (thankfully) something else entirely. So, yeah, from my perspective, I don't know that I'd be sure about killing unless I'd faced that reality.



Dirty Dog said:


> I prefer to stick with standard definitions:



Problem is that your "standard definition" doesn't really state that "potentially capable" is the actual definition… it states "sufficient to cause death"… in other words, a bullet is potentially lethal if fired… but if not, it's an inanimate object. A gunshot wound to the head, on the other hand, is likely to be lethal… being shot in the head is, indeed, sufficient to cause death… provided the location the bullet hits is on target. But, of course, until the person is killed, shooting someone in the head is simply "potentially lethal".



Langenschwert said:


> Given the right tools and training, any of us could be physically capable of lethal action, but how many, when push comes to shove, could enact? Given historical rates of fire, not many, unless subjected to sufficient conditioning.



Yep, agreed completely! Accounts from battlefields bear this out completely.



Dirty Dog said:


> Again, even though I have never killed anyone, I know I am psychologically capable. Mr Mugger didn't survive because I held back.



How do you know? I've trained in systems that are specifically geared towards the mentality and mindset of committing to the action of killing your enemy… of acceptance of your own death in the process… and I have little idea of whether or not I'd be truly psychologically capable. I'm pretty sure I would be, but don't know how I'd handle it after the event… and, forgive me, but you train in TKD… so frankly, I fail to see how you've even started to address the realities of the situation.

And, honestly, the macho cavalier attitude displayed here I find somewhat distressing. You've worked as an ER nurse, Mark… I would have hoped that your attitude to death and killing… and being the cause of another's death… wouldn't have been so blasé. I mean… "Mr Mugger didn't survive because I held back."?? Really? I would hope that the reason "Mr Mugger" wasn't killed was because you were a rational, thinking, feeling human being who has problems with the very concept of ending another person's life… if that's not the case, frankly, I have nothing but pity for your attitude in this arena.



Dirty Dog said:


> You do have to do an honest self evaluation, but your statement that you cannot know without actually killing is simply wrong.



No, it's actually not. There have been many who have been convinced that they could do something, but couldn't when it came down to it (include very well trained soldiers who should be able to kill… but freeze when it comes to it), or didn't think they could, but managed to. So the problem here becomes one of your "honest self evaluation"… the very concept of actually killing someone is something you can never truly give an honest self evaluation of… 



Xue Sheng said:


> Basically
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still lethal whether things are killed or not



Er… cute bear and all… but… no. If things aren't killed, then it's not lethal. Simply potentially lethal… or maybe "life-threatening"… or "dangerous"… Semantics and all, but hey… we might as well actually understand the words we're using.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Chris Parker said:


> Er… cute bear and all… but… no. If things aren't killed, then it's not lethal. Simply potentially lethal… or maybe "life-threatening"… or "dangerous"… Semantics and all, but hey… we might as well actually understand the words we're using



Tell that to the bear the next time you see one in the wild.... as for me..... whatever you want to go with...not worth arguing over


----------



## RTKDCMB

Xue Sheng said:


> Tell that to the bear the next time you see one in the wild.


I am pretty sure that the bear will not care one way or the other.


----------



## Xue Sheng

RTKDCMB said:


> I am pretty sure that the bear will not care one way or the other.



They never did when I saw them....luckily they didn't much care about me either... and they were Black bears not Grizzlies


----------



## ShawnP

Xue Sheng said:


> They never did when I saw them....luckily they didn't much care about me either... and they were Black bears not Grizzlies


get too close to one in a bad mood or a momma with babies then you better be the one who cares, black bear or grizzly!


----------



## JowGaWolf

Chris Parker said:


> If you're going to have some kind of identification process for who you will teach, you need to be able to identify them in the first place… so yeah, you do have to identify sociopaths (which was the context of the comment at the time). As far as "wrong attitude and wrong assumptions", that can be corrected… sociopathic tendencies, not so much… hence your ideas being based in movie fantasy far more than reality.


  Why would someone set up and identification process for something that they aren't qualified for? If you aren't qualified to identify sociopaths then why would you put that in your process for identifying students you want to teach? 

It's far easier to identify people who have the wrong attitude and wrong assumptions about your martial arts. It's not up to the teacher to change the attitudes and wrong assumptions.  That's entirely in the student's power.  A person will only changer their attitude and assumptions if they want to.  Just like I gave a real world example of how my Sifu rejected some student, yet some still think that what he's does is fantasy or "only in the movies"

I apologize for confusing you with the OP.



Chris Parker said:


> Look, your personal decision about who you teach has never been in question… the question was how can you tell who you wouldn't teach? How can you tell that this person, who appears so "normal" when you meet them, but is really hitting his kids each night, is someone you wouldn't teach?


How can I tell who I wouldn't teach?  Easy, I wouldn't teach anyone that I thought wouldn't be a good addition to the school or a good example of what a Jow Ga Kung Fu student should be.

For example, A real world case.  A students brings in a friend to take a trial class.  The friend does the exercises but then sits down and refuses to try some of the basic kung movements for beginners.  Both students and teacher try to encourage him to try and are supportive.  The student still sits down.  For me this student would be poison for the rest of the class.  Kung Fu is already hard enough without the negative energy of "I quit", "I can't", "I won't try".  This student didn't make the cut.

Another real world example.  A potential student comes in and brags about what they know and how good they are in another system that has nothing to do with Jow Ga or learning Jow Ga.  This person was asked not to come back.

When people come into a martial arts school they rarely hide their natural tendencies. If they come in lazy then they are usually lazy as a student. If they come in with the wrong attitude then they usually keep that attitude as a student.  If they come in with the tough lethal human attitude, then they usually have that same attitude when they try to spar. Because for them it's about being the most dangerous and they think that means hitting fellow students as hard as they can.  People who show characteristics that would interfere with the rest of the students learning are rarely hidden.

In my school it's not our goal to find out if someone is beating their wife, or if they are going to kill someone.  Our only goal is to identify the right attitude and qualities that our system looks for in people.  If you have a small amount of these qualities then you'll probably become a student and we'll help grow those qualities.  If you have none of those qualities then most likely the person will be rejected or another martial art school will be recommended.

My experience with dealing with people who come to the school is that they rarely hide their attitudes and assumptions. If I don't see it in their face or hear it from the voice on the first visit, then I'll hear it or see within the first weak of class as they practice.


----------



## drop bear

Chris Parker said:


> Based on….?



Mostly what he wants to do with his killing machineness. Which is to protect people. He never even calimed to want to hurt anybody.


----------



## JowGaWolf

drop bear said:


> Mostly what he wants to do with his killing machineness. Which is to protect people. He never even calimed to want to hurt anybody.


There are a million ways to protect someone without fighting or being lethal. If someone wants to protect their family then they have to come to terms when the fact that they can't be around family 24/7 like a personal bodyguard.  Then this turns into the realization that your family needs to know how protect themselves for when you aren't around.

When people want to protect their family, it's usually not from the standpoint of being "the most lethal human being known."  Being a "lethal human being" means not many people are going to mess with me.  It doesn't mean that they can't nor won't try to do something to my family.


----------



## Tez3

JowGaWolf said:


> There are a million ways to protect someone without fighting or being lethal. If someone wants to protect their family then they have to come to terms when the fact that they can't be around family 24/7 like a personal bodyguard.  Then this turns into the realization that your family needs to know how protect themselves for when you aren't around.
> 
> When people want to protect their family, it's usually not from the standpoint of being "the most lethal human being known."  *Being a* *"lethal human being" means not many people are going to mess with me.*  It doesn't mean that they can't nor won't try to do something to my family.



It can though bring about that 'gunfighter' mentality, where people want to challenge and bring down the one perceived as 'top dog', being labelled as a 'lethal killing machine' can be like pinning a  target on your forehead. " So you think you're hard do you........"


----------



## Dirty Dog

Chris Parker said:


> Physical capability is one thing, mental and emotional capability is (thankfully) something else entirely. So, yeah, from my perspective, I don't know that I'd be sure about killing unless I'd faced that reality.



I have. Others here have. I'm not saying EVERYBODY knows, I'm saying the statement that you CANNOT know unless you've actually killed someone is false.



Chris Parker said:


> Problem is that your "standard definition" doesn't really state that "potentially capable" is the actual definition…



It's not my definition. If you have a problem with it, I suggest you take up with the people at Websters...



Chris Parker said:


> How do you know? I've trained in systems that are specifically geared towards the mentality and mindset of committing to the action of killing your enemy… of acceptance of your own death in the process… and I have little idea of whether or not I'd be truly psychologically capable. I'm pretty sure I would be, but don't know how I'd handle it after the event… and, forgive me, but you train in TKD… so frankly, I fail to see how you've even started to address the realities of the situation.



So now you're an expert both on what TKD teaches, and what I've personally trained and experienced?



Chris Parker said:


> And, honestly, the macho cavalier attitude displayed here I find somewhat distressing. You've worked as an ER nurse, Mark… I would have hoped that your attitude to death and killing… and being the cause of another's death… wouldn't have been so blasé. I mean… "Mr Mugger didn't survive because I held back."?? Really? I would hope that the reason "Mr Mugger" wasn't killed was because you were a rational, thinking, feeling human being who has problems with the very concept of ending another person's life… if that's not the case, frankly, I have nothing but pity for your attitude in this arena.



He stabbed me. I broke his neck. I certainly wasn't trying to keep him alive.
And I'm not blase', particularly. I'm realistic. If you're trying to kill me, I will do my best to make sure I do not end up dead.


----------



## BTittel

I hope your wish comes true so you get to see how truly awful being the "most deadly person that walked this earth" would truly be.
My advice would be look into your soul, sit by a running creek for a few days while you meditate on this decision. 
But Good luck on your endeavors, and who knows maybe you could handle the talent.


----------

