# Questions on HapKiDo-any input appreciated



## Humble artist (Aug 29, 2002)

I´ve recently become quite interested in this art,and had issues on my mind on it.I wonder if you could help me with these questions?
Thanks.

1.Is hapkido effective in your opinion/does it work?
Quite a classic line but I just wanted to hear what you think,what makes it unique?
2.Throws-Some of my research has given me the bizarre idea that hapki throws are somehow judo-oriented.I´ve got the idea that judo had an influence on it,for sure but this is something I don´t get (some material that I´ve seen includes some similar throws maybe) They come from aikijujutsu right?
I´ve checked trough some short interviews of high-ranking hapkido practitioners at www.martialinfo.com One of them states as a weak point that traditional throws of hapkido are not practical for protection,even though they look good.
What do you think about all this?
3.Do you have internal power development in it? As far as I know,there is for it is an internal art,mostly and breathing exercises and ki building is used? 
If there is,could you compare it to what is used in kung-fu/wushu? Qi-gong,breathing exercises,oriental medicine study etc. 
4.Are there revival&healing tactics at higher levels as in chinese arts and some korean arts?
5.Besides at Korea,is there high quality traditional hapkido teaching around? Where should one go at? 
6.What kind of an approach does hapkido have for weapon defenses? Is it well-developed?
7.Does it have deep sense of philosophical and moral teaching? Seems to have.

Thank you for your time.

:asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 29, 2002)

Hapkido is an effective system--many Tae Kwon Do schools that are very sport-oriented add it in for self-defense. It was strongly influenced by Japanese jujutsu, which is also the source for Judo. (Korean Judo is called Yudo.) There are lots of Hapkido schools and variants in the States.

There are others here with more direct experience in the art who can tell you more I'm sure!


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## Chris from CT (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *I´ve recently become quite interested in this art,and had issues on my mind on it.I wonder if you could help me with these questions?
> Thanks.
> 
> 1.Is hapkido effective in your opinion/does it work?*



I feel it does work and there are quite a few law enforcement officers, security agents and bouncers who train in it that believe the same.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *2.Throws-Some of my research has given me the bizarre idea that hapki throws are somehow judo-oriented.I´ve got the idea that judo had an influence on it,for sure but this is something I don´t get (some material that I´ve seen includes some similar throws maybe) They come from aikijujutsu right?*



Right, the throws in Hapkido come from Aikijujutsu.  The founder of Hapkido, Choi Yong Sul, only had experience in Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu.  Some people say otherwise, but many people who knew and/or trained with him agree with my above statement.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *I´ve checked trough some short interviews of high-ranking hapkido practitioners at www.martialinfo.com One of them states as a weak point that traditional throws of hapkido are not practical for protection,even though they look good.
> What do you think about all this?*



In Hapkido and many other arts the opponents's balance must be broken before a throw can be attempted.  In Japanese, I believe this is called Kazushi (please excuse my spelling)  This is a major principle in Hapkido.  Even for joint locking we start to break the opponent's balance even if a takedown is not going to be applied.  This way the opponent is less of a threat for 1) they are locked up and 2) it's very difficult to have an effective attack when you cannot support yourself.   As far as throws, I have never been one for flash over effectiveness, but if you break the balance first you can do any throw.   



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *3.Do you have internal power development in it? As far as I know,there is for it is an internal art,mostly and breathing exercises and ki building is used? *



Hapkido is both an internal and external art.  To say it's only one is limiting the scope of it.  Yes, we do Ki developing exercises every class.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *If there is,could you compare it to what is used in kung-fu/wushu? Qi-gong,breathing exercises,oriental medicine study etc. *



We do exercises very similar to NeiGong and WeiGong Exercises as done in chinese systems.  



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *4.Are there revival&healing tactics at higher levels as in chinese arts and some korean arts?*



I can't speak for all styles of Hapkido but we also learn some healing and revival techniques also. 



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *5.Besides at Korea,is there high quality traditional hapkido teaching around? Where should one go at?*



Sure, there are many different styles of Hapkido in the world, some are even right here in America.  GM Ji Han-Jae of Sin Moo Hapkido is in New Jersey, GM Dr. Jung-Hwan Park is in Florida. GM Lim Hyun-Soo and the Jung Ki Kwan has students in the Northeast.  These are three of the founder's students but there are more.   

Just one word of caution when looking around : Be weary of people with elitist attitudes and that often put others practitioners down just because there are not affiliated with them.  They are missing the point of martial arts training.   



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *6.What kind of an approach does hapkido have for weapon defenses? Is it well-developed?*



"People use them so we need to defend against them."  
I would have to say, the techniques we learn are very effective.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *7.Does it have deep sense of philosophical and moral teaching?*



Some styles do, some don't.  I appreciate it more when there is.  Some say they do, but it's only "Lip Service."  So judge people by their actions and not just on what they say.

Good luck, H.Artist.
I hope it helped.:asian: 

Take care


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## Humble artist (Aug 29, 2002)

Thanks a lot both of you.
Arnisador,
"Hapkido is an effective system--many Tae Kwon Do schools that are very sport-oriented add it in for self-defense"
Well that says something I think.
I´ve heard that most taekwondo masters have background in hapkido.What do you guys think?


Chris,I´ll start quoting you at this point for more conversation to arise,if you don´t mind?
"Right, the throws in Hapkido come from Aikijujutsu. The founder of Hapkido, Choi Yong Sul, only had experience in Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu. Some people say otherwise, but many people who knew and/or trained with him agree with my above statement."
That´s the idea I got too.It seems some deny that he studied under master Takeda,this seems to share people in two groups too? (But I think this should be legit information,would the founder lie in public?  )

"Right, the throws in Hapkido come from Aikijujutsu. The founder of Hapkido, Choi Yong Sul, only had experience in Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu. Some people say otherwise, but many people who knew and/or trained with him agree with my above statement."
Does this mean throws are taken from there and left unmodified?
A bit like aikido took techniques from aikijujutsu and modified them only slightly (adding circular movement)?
BTW,I´ve seen hapkido practitioner(s) state that there are some SAME techniques in aikido and hapkido (sister arts they are,and some similar tactics but does this statement hold water?) How about what are the techniques?

"In Hapkido and many other arts the opponents's balance must be broken before a throw can be attempted. In Japanese, I believe this is called Kazushi (please excuse my spelling) This is a major principle in Hapkido. Even for joint locking we start to break the opponent's balance even if a takedown is not going to be applied. This way the opponent is less of a threat for 1) they are locked up and 2) it's very difficult to have an effective attack when you cannot support yourself. As far as throws, I have never been one for flash over effectiveness, but if you break the balance first you can do any throw."

I see.I think unbalancing is called "kuzushi" in japanese so you are not very far from the source.
Yes,this is probably a major principle,and necessary if you don´t want to muscle the opponent to ground.
I suppose you use opponents momentum to follow up with a throw as in aikido? 

"Hapkido is both an internal and external art. To say it's only one is limiting the scope of it. Yes, we do Ki developing exercises every class."

Good!

"I can't speak for all styles of Hapkido but we also learn some healing and revival techniques also. "

And as far as I know,there are lots of different styles in hapkido,and as you state.

BTW,is "hankido" more like an offshoot of hapkido as I have thought or only specialized style?

Sure, there are many different styles of Hapkido in the world, some are even right here in America. GM Ji Han-Jae of Sin Moo Hapkido is in New Jersey, GM Dr. Jung-Hwan Park is in Florida. GM Lim Hyun-Soo and the Jung Ki Kwan has students in the Northeast. These are three of the founder's students but there are more. 

"Just one word of caution when looking around : Be weary of people with elitist attitudes and that often put others practitioners down just because there are not affiliated with them. They are missing the point of martial arts training. "

Allright! I suppose there is also some noble teaching in Australia,as far as ranks go? Not to say I would live there and especially not to say that I would follow the belt.

"Some styles do, some don't. I appreciate it more when there is. Some say they do, but it's only "Lip Service." So judge people by their actions and not just on what they say."

So do I! I believe mental code is a valuable thing.
Your reply supports my beliefs.
Styles like "combat hapkido" by master Pellegrini is not one of those more philosophical styles (not to put it down in any way,just to think loudly)

As a new Q I´d like to ask about belt system (generally speaking,specific info also welcome)
How quickly does one usually rank in this art,as if compared to other arts? Does it take hard work to rank a black belt?
How about how many BB´s/instructors there are?
Are there many people who have received very high ranks?
I suppose it is not very easy in this art (not to say it would be in others but) Just to get some basic understanding.

And as a second one-
What were all of the arts that had an influence on what hapkido became? To this day,I already know daito-ryu AKjujutsu,tae-kwon-do,I guess there are some other korean arts?
Am I right in saying that the founders follower (can´t remember his name) added much more kicks to hapkido (creating his own style) were those from taekwondo? I suppose they were flashy kicks? 

Thank you again,for your precious time.


:asian:


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## Chris from CT (Aug 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *I´ve heard that most taekwondo masters have background in hapkido.What do you guys think?*



That is not necessarily so.  This is something I posted on another forum about teaching TKD and HKD together.

_"Can they be taught together? Yes, as long as the instructor has put in the proper training and really understands the principles of each and how they differ. 

Many people, unfortunately, try to pass off TKD with joint locks as Hapkido. Don't be confused because they are both Korean arts. 

If someone practices "kicking" in their art, are they studying TKD? 

Sounds like a silly question, doesn't it? Of course they're not. 

This is similar to studying joint locks and saying you are doing Hapkido. There is more to TKD than just kicks, just as there is more to Hapkido than just joint locks. The principles and training are also different. The principles of Hapkido permiate in everything a practitioner does; from joint locks, breakaways, strikes, kicks, Dan Jun breathing, etc, etc, etc. 

If people have joint locks in a TKD curriculum thats awsome! I believe that people should be proud of what you do and don't try to belittle it by calling it something else. Call it what it is and enjoy it."_




> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *It seems some deny that he studied under master Takeda*



Because GM Choi lost is baggage which included any certificates it is hard to say "*THIS* is the absolute truth."  

Here we have 3 separate people...
1) The people that think Choi Yong Sul didn't study at all with Takeda Sokaku.

2) The people who think he studied with him, but did not receive a Menkyo Kaiden (certificate of mastery of the system) 
Please once again, forgive my Japanese spellings.  

3) the people that think he Trained with Takeda Sokaku and received a Menkyo Kaiden.

I lean more twords #2, reasons later.

Because of the Japanese occupation of Korea, there was a lot of bad blood between the two countries.  The Koreans didn't like the Japanese because of the takeover and their attempt to discard Korean culture.  The Japanese didn't like the Koreans because they felt superior to them (hence the occupation of Korea).  Here are the basic Korean & Japanese point of views.

*Korean point of view:* Koreans want no part of being influenced by the Japanese.

*Japanese point of view:* No little Korean could master a Japanese art.

These were two very general points of view

Some people still do not accept the Japanese Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu influence on Hapkido.  

Now my reason with going twords #2 before...
I contacted the Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu Hombu (head school) in Abashiri, Hokkaido and I received a responce from Kobayashi Y., the Hombu Secratary.  He states that "Choi Yong Sul has studied for some years with Takeda Sokaku, then he has founded his School inserting only some elements of our art."

So if the Hombu itself acknowleges that Choi Yong Sul studied with Takeda Sokaku, that would totally rule out Theory #1.  That leaves #2 (studied with Takeda Sensei/No Menkyo Kaiden) and #3 (studied withTakeda Sensei/with Menkyo Kaiden). I would like to believe #3, but its hard without hard proof.  Even if #2 is true, WOW he created one hell of an art!  

I have to get going now, but if you want, I will go over some more of your last post later on.

Take care, Humble Artist.  :asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Aug 29, 2002)

I am sure that Hapkido has evolved since the days of Aikijujutsu. Most of Hapkido throws and even techniques are closer to modern day Jujutsu than they are to Aikijujutsu. Aikijujutsu dealt with samurai sword so alot of the movements where done in big circular motion so the defender wouldn't get cut by the blade. Most of what I have seen is like Wally Jay's Small Circle Jujutsu. What I have seen is Combat Hapkido by John Pellegrini. Does anyone train in his Organization and what do you think of him?
Bob :asian:


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## Hollywood1340 (Aug 29, 2002)

Kiddies, 
 I train in Combat Hapkido and find it to be a wonderful system. Notice the use of the word _system_. CHKD is a system of self defense, not a martial art. We have no forms, and there is no sport application, nor will there ever be. We use elements of Arnis, JKD, JuJitsu, Judo, Traditional HDK, and have use of the short staff, cane, and knife. 
As far as tradional hapkido, you can view some clips on my site I've just uploaded, showing the power of this Korean Art.
Oh, and as far as CHKD, does it work? Just take a look. (The guy in pain is me)
Hapkido Vids


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## Kempojujutsu (Aug 29, 2002)

You both look-like in some pain. HaHa. Who's the guy putting the lock on.
Bob


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## Hollywood1340 (Aug 29, 2002)

My sabum


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## Humble artist (Aug 30, 2002)

Thank you very much.

:asian:


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## Chris from CT (Aug 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *And as far as I know,there are lots of different styles in hapkido,and as you state.  BTW,is "hankido" more like an offshoot of hapkido as I have thought or only specialized style?*



I'm not the kind of person that likes to say "it's this or that" if I don't practice it.  So here is just some info that I do know.  Hankido was created by Grand Master Myung Jae-Nam who passed away in 1999.  GM Myung was a student of GM Ji Han-Jae.  If you do a search on Hankido or Grandmaster Myung you can probably get some good info.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *Allright! I suppose there is also some noble teaching in Australia,as far as ranks go? Not to say I would live there and especially not to say that I would follow the belt.*



I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but if you are asking if there are any good Hapkido people teaching in Australia then I would have to say, "yes."   Master Geoff Booth is a Student of GM Ji Han-Jae.  He is a nice guy who's has always helped me out when I've had questions for him.   His website is at...

http://hapkido.netro.com.au/

I believe there are others, but I don't know for sure.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *How quickly does one usually rank in this art,as if compared to other arts? *



That all depends on the Instructor of the style you are learning.  Some people hand them out.  Some make you earn them. 



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *Does it take hard work to rank a black belt? *



Anything that's worth it does.  




> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *How about how many BB´s/instructors there are?
> Are there many people who have received very high ranks? *



A whole bunch!    This is a good website to get info on Hapkido...

http://www.hapkido-info.net/

They have a Family Tree of Hapkido Practitioners that are 5th Degree and higher.  It's at...

http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/hapkido_family_tree.html



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *What were all of the arts that had an influence on what hapkido became? To this day,I already know daito-ryu AKjujutsu,tae-kwon-do,I guess there are some other korean arts?*



Many of GM Choi's students had a background in another martial art previous to learning under him.  For instance, GM Dr. Jung-Hwan Park was already a black belt in Taekwondo before studying privately under GM Choi.  As far as influencing GM Choi and what he taught, from what I have found, he only studied Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu.



> _Originally posted by Humble artist _
> *Am I right in saying that the founders follower (can´t remember his name) added much more kicks to hapkido (creating his own style) were those from taekwondo? I suppose they were flashy kicks? *



Just remember when you say "founder," some Hapkido people may not be sure who you are talking about because there is some discrepency as to who the founder is (GM Choi vs. GM Ji).  

_Back to the question..._
Sure,  GM Ji Han-Jae (founder of "Sin Moo" Hapkido - which is fact) was probably one of the first of GM Choi's students to add more kicks.   There were some already, but GM Ji added much more.  He also could be considered the most influential person in getting Hapkido known to the world.  

To be honest, I don't know exactly what other style GM Ji was trained in.  If you try a web search on GM Ji, I'm sure you'll find it.

I hope this helped you out.
Take care, Humble Artist.  :asian:


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## Humble artist (Sep 1, 2002)

Thank you again,Chris.
You have been a lot of help.

:asian:


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