# wing chun and hock's cqc



## antec20 (Dec 6, 2006)

i've narrowed it down to two local schools.

1st is a william cheung lineage wing chun school that has no testing fees, allows a person to wear street shoes, requires kung fu pants and a tshirt, and does no contracts. it's also the close of the two.

2nd is a http://www.hockscqc.com/   school which has open ended contracts, requires bdu's/school tshirt/and otomix or wrestling shoes as they have swain mats, charges testing fees.

anyone have any input?


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## antec20 (Dec 6, 2006)

antec20 said:


> i've narrowed it down to two local schools.
> 
> 1st is a william cheung lineage wing chun school that has no testing fees, allows a person to wear street shoes, requires kung fu pants and a tshirt, and does no contracts. it's also the close of the two.
> 
> ...



which would you choose and why?


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## arnisador (Dec 6, 2006)

These are both good options. Try them both and see what feels best!


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## thetruth (Dec 7, 2006)

As long as there is not a massive amount of difference in school fees then the quality of the teacher and his/her students is the most important thing.  Check em out


Cheers
Sammy:asian:


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 7, 2006)

It would be wise to check them both out and see what you like best, but personally, I would lean toward the wing chun school.


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## MJS (Dec 7, 2006)

I'm in agreement as well..check them both out and see what you like the best.  Both most likely have a different focus, so it depends on what you're looking for out of your training.

Mike


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## ajs1976 (Dec 7, 2006)

I would check both schools out and see which on is a better fit for you.

From what I know of the two styles, I would be more interested in the Hock Hochheim.  He focus on CQC, but has a lot of experience in more traditional arts:

*- 3rd Dan Black Belt in GM Ernesto Presas, Filipino Arnis De Mano) *directly from the Grandmaster; was awarded the title of Guro in Manila, the Philippines in 1993. Hock has made multiple trips overseas there and in other countries for their indigenous training. 
      -* 2nd Dan Black Belt in Prof. Remy Presas Modern Arnis,* directly from the Professor.
*- 2nd Dan Black Belt Kajukenbo *from Sifu/5th Dan Dean Goldade-in the Professor Gaylord Method.
*- Black Belts in Aiki-Jitsu (3rd Dan) and Kempo (7th Dan) *


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## antec20 (Dec 7, 2006)

Jade Tigress said:


> It would be wise to check them both out and see what you like best, but personally, I would lean toward the wing chun school.



i've checked them both out. i'm leaning towards the wing chun school. i'm not particuarly fond of contracts like is at the 2nd cqc school.

i'm curious why're you leaning towards the wing chun school? have you seen the cqc stuff?


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## arnisador (Dec 7, 2006)

His CQC stuff is good, but it has a very different flavor from Wing Chun. What do you want out of your training?


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## antec20 (Dec 8, 2006)

arnisador said:


> His CQC stuff is good, but it has a very different flavor from Wing Chun. What do you want out of your training?



self defense, fitness, and no contracts.


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## arnisador (Dec 8, 2006)

antec20 said:


> self defense, fitness



I think either is good for this; the CQC stuff may be more well-rounded for the former (including knives, sticks, and firearms) and is probably better for the latter.


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## antec20 (Dec 23, 2006)

arnisador said:


> I think either is good for this; the CQC stuff may be more well-rounded for the former (including knives, sticks, and firearms) and is probably better for the latter.



found another good system. Doce Pares. tried a free class and really like that. plus it's cheap. good cardio workout too.


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## larry (Dec 23, 2006)

all martial arts stem from some foundation of success,  that is, proof that they are effective.  Why would a teacher charge a fee for testing?  If the student has been practicing, and becomes proficient at the techniques taught, as well as developed through exercises taught,  then the teacher will see the progress and recognize the point to proceed to the next level.  As far as choosing a good teacher you should use your own instinct.  Maybe there is a reason that wing chun exposed itself to you.      whatever you decide,have fun!


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## larry (Dec 23, 2006)

p.s.  William Cheung is famous.  What is important is the skill of the sifu.


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## jks9199 (Dec 23, 2006)

larry said:


> all martial arts stem from some foundation of success,  that is, proof that they are effective.  Why would a teacher charge a fee for testing?  If the student has been practicing, and becomes proficient at the techniques taught, as well as developed through exercises taught,  then the teacher will see the progress and recognize the point to proceed to the next level.  As far as choosing a good teacher you should use your own instinct.  Maybe there is a reason that wing chun exposed itself to you.      whatever you decide,have fun!


There are legitimate reasons to charge for testing.  New belts aren't free, for example, and the use of a facility for large-scale testing opportunities might entail extra expense.  Sometimes, the instructor also has to roll association fees into testing costs.  And, for higher level testing, there might be costs related to bringing someone in to do the testing.

But...  In my opinion, testing fees are a warning sign -- especially for underbelts.  And even more so when lots of extra testing steps (like half-ranks or pre-tests) with associated fees are even more of warning!


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## arnisador (Dec 23, 2006)

There are many varieties of Doce Pares; in general, it's good stuff.


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## antec20 (Dec 24, 2006)

antec20 said:


> found another good system. Doce Pares. tried a free class and really like that. plus it's cheap. good cardio workout too.



didn't have proper shoes for the mats so i was working out in my socks. right forward stance strained my left calf muscle and injured it. this was on mats.

even with with a special martial arts shoe i feel i'd reinjure myself.

so i'm going to stick with the wing chun and wearing my running shoes [which provide plenty of proper support for me]. i won't be getting into any stances in the wc where i'd be stressing the calf muscle in the same way as doce pares.


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## modarnis (Dec 30, 2006)

antec20 said:


> self defense, fitness, and no contracts.


 
If self defense is a primary goal, Hocks CQC material is excellent.  I try to train with Hock when he is in my area.  I have known him about 10 years now.  Hock is a street smart cop who blended lots of martial arts experience with his street saavy.  

His system is well organized.  His empty hand system is logical and each level follows a similar outline as the previous.  

I can't speak at any lenght about his individual instructors since it has been some time since I trained at one of the large Texas gatherings.

I certainly wouldn't disparage wing tsun either.  The difference in my mind is what you hope to get.  Most single system schools build the art from the foundation up, the only way to develop proficiency and build on concepts.  The downside is that self defense skill takes somewhat longer to develop this way.  

Both will provide you with some fitness benefit.  Hock's material is well suited to high energy training, but it would be instructor dependent.

Good luck in your quest


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