# Chess.



## bscastro (Oct 3, 2002)

Any chess players here? I notice a lot of similarities between chess and martial arts, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a decent percentage of martial artists who also enjoy chess.

Bryan


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## cdhall (Oct 3, 2002)

I know what Chess is, I play with my son, but I'm not any good at it. 

I mean I haven't studied it, but I understand that like Kenpo, there are pre-determined techniques that you can learn which provide you responses to certain situations.  

I plan to study it formally with my son.  I may buy a Chessmaster game or something that will teach this stuff to us.

One of the schools I'm trying to get my son into, has a Chess club and they are very good so I'm looking forward to that happening.

Mr. Parker said that Kenpo also lots in common with pocket billiards and I'm embarassed that I'm not any better at that game.  It is also something I'd like to work on.


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## Yari (Oct 3, 2002)

I played chess long before I started MA.... maybe that's why I started MA?  

/Yari


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## bscastro (Oct 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *I know what Chess is, I play with my son, but I'm not any good at it.
> 
> ...



That's great. I love chess and would recommend Chess Mentor for you and your son. It is strictly for teaching and is the best computer tool for teaching beginners.. Chessmaster is good for playing and also has some instruction.

I think Chess (and other activities) are similar to martial arts because when you are at a certain level, you must "personalize" your style. Although you may study a specific style, you must develop your own "personality" within your style. As with chess, there are different strategies for those who are more defensive, or like to take risks, or who like to attack, etc.

Cheers,
Bryan


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## Dronak (Oct 3, 2002)

I can play chess, but don't very often so I'm not that good at it.  From the little I've done with it, cdhall is right about predetermined techniques.  That might not be the best way to put it, but the idea's about right.  There are specific end game situations you basically have to memorize and know how to win them, if you have the advantage, or avoid losing as long as possible to give your opponent more time to make a mistake, if you don't.  I'm thinking stuff like K & P vs. K, K & R vs. K, those things.  There are also sort of general rules that help you out based on position of the board and things like that, such as if the board's open a bishop is generally more useful than a knight since it can span long distances in one move, but if the board's closed the knight's jumping ability makes it more useful than a bishop.  Anyway, since I'm no chess expert I'd better stop before I remember something completely wrong or screw up somehow.


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## Kenpo_student (Oct 3, 2002)

I am not that good though. Excellent exercise in strategy.


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## fissure (Oct 3, 2002)

I love chess - and I'm fairly good at it! I know, my hummility is second to none


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## Field Cricket (Oct 3, 2002)

Here's a little factoid that you may or may not find interesting: the board game Go is regarded as a martial art in Japan, and is complete with a kyu-dan ranking system for the players! 

FC


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## bscastro (Oct 4, 2002)

The neat thing I like about chess is that you can actually determine how good you are through ratings. That way, you have a general idea about your ability. 

Bryan


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## Abbax8 (Oct 4, 2002)

I have read where judo is described as "Physical Chess"

                                                        Peace
                                                         Dennis


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## Cthulhu (Oct 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Field Cricket _
> 
> *Here's a little factoid that you may or may not find interesting: the board game Go is regarded as a martial art in Japan, and is complete with a kyu-dan ranking system for the players!
> 
> FC *



I remember seeing Go matches on TV back when I lived in Japan.  I'd watch them every so often, even though I had no clue what the hell was going on  

Cthulhu


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 5, 2002)

I have played Chess and enjoyed it.

In College the Chess Club had a really good guy who was ranked, I most certainly was not. I was the Treasurer to make sure they filled out their forms to get sponsorship from teh student government. Point is that this guy could beat 4 people at once when they were all playing by standard openings. If I was one of the four, almost always one of the other guys could sneak in a win. How, I played Random as this guy would say. Matter of fact while he was studying our board he would be muttering 'Random' over and over again.

A good fighter in any art knows how to move and set up their opponenet to get a reaction to be able to attack what your are after. In chess you might sacrafice a pawn to get a knight or a bishop. In MArtial Arts one might open oneself up to get a reaction from an opponent to be able to get a destruction or joint lock.

This is not to say that you could not say the same thing about this and basketball, or soccor (aka football).

Talk to you all later

Rich


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## Nightingale (Oct 7, 2002)

well, Billy Lear got his tail kicked in chess by yours truly last night... 

however, I feel the need to point out that I totally suck at chess, so I wonder what that says about Billy...?


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## Wes Idol (Oct 7, 2002)

::::::in a badly dubbed way::::::::

"Your the one who killed my brotha.......now you have to deal with me!"

Yes Mam, please make it a point to bring that chess board to the studio next Monday, as I must avenge the death of our student, one William T. Lear.

Respectfully, 
Master of the Druken-Bunny-Foot-Fighting Society!


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## Nightingale (Oct 7, 2002)

like I said, I'm not great at chess, but if you'd like to play match or two, I'm all for a little friendly competition.

...feeling the need to point out that said "william T lear" contributed to his own demise by snapping his own royal pieces in half...accidentally, he claims (though how you manage to accidentally break both the king AND queen in half in one fell swoop, I have no clue :rofl: ), and I must concede that he did make a rapid trip to stater brothers to obtain super glue to fix them, and grovelled sufficiently, so all is forgiven.


(and if he's reading this thread, he's gonna kick my tail next time he sees me) doh!


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## Wes Idol (Oct 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *...feeling the need to point out that said "william T lear" contributed to his own demise by snapping his own royal pieces in half...accidentally, he claims *



What can I say?  Mongo like candy.



> *(though how you manage to accidentally break both the king AND queen in half in one fell swoop, I have no clue :rofl: ),*



As ugly as Franky was, remember, he didn't mean harm, he just thought the little girl wanted to go swimming.



> *I must concede that he did make a rapid trip to stater brothers to obtain super glue to fix them, and grovelled sufficiently, so all is forgiven.*



Well done, B.



> *(and if he's reading this thread, he's gonna kick my tail next time he sees me) doh! *



Funny...you don't really get a lot of "Doh's" these days.


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *well, Billy Lear got his tail kicked in chess by yours truly last night...
> 
> however, I feel the need to point out that I totally suck at chess, so I wonder what that says about Billy...? *



Of course, she won't tell you about how she lost the night after the slaughter. LOL!



> _Originally posted by nightingale8472_
> 
> *...feeling the need to point out that said "william T lear" contributed to his own demise by snapping his own royal pieces in half...accidentally, he claims*



The pieces were made of alabaster, and I dropped the queen on the king (breaking the pieces when they struck each other). It was an accident... I did of course, go to the store and buy some super glue and fix them afterwards. You can barely tell they were ever broken (you'd need to look with a magnifying glass).

*MONGO SORRY*  

I'm not going to kick your tail, Wes is!!!   I'm gunna bring the marshmallows to roast over your smoldering carcass after he finishes you off. (Like Han Solo said in Star Wars: "Take my advice, let the Wookie win.") :rofl:


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## Nightingale (Oct 8, 2002)

ooohhhh... so wes is a wookie and I am to throw the game so he wins and doesn't beat me to a pulp.  got it.  consider the game thrown.


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## Wes Idol (Oct 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *ooohhhh... so wes is a wookie and I am to throw the game so he wins and doesn't beat me to a pulp.  got it.  consider the game thrown.
> 
> *



In the movie, the Wookie ends up ripping your arms out if he looses.  Now, the biggest difference with me (besides ability to speak English and much less hair), is I was raised with lots of sisters.  I know how tough woman really are...........I would only reach for your arm if you said it was ok



WI


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 8, 2002)

You guys are killing me!!!


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## Nightingale (Oct 8, 2002)

hehe... now, when wes kicks my tail at chess, you won't know if its because he really did or because I let him.

<evil grin>


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *hehe... now, when wes kicks my tail at chess, you won't know if its because he really did or because I let him.
> 
> <evil grin> *




you all are tooooooooooooo much
Jason Farnsworth


I love chess by the way. Like kenpo it lets your mind wander and you usually forget about every day daily problems.


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## Nightingale (Oct 8, 2002)

well, chess isn't really a "let your mind wander" activity for me... its more of a "doh! that was a really stupid move!" type activity.


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *well, chess isn't really a "let your mind wander" activity for me... its more of a "doh! that was a really stupid move!" type activity. *




I know what you mean. The chess part I was meaning was that nothing else really bothers you and it's a nice break to get away from reality so to speak. I play chess almost every morning. We usually don't finish any games of chess there's not enough time unless he just trashes me. The guy I play with has won some championships and I have only been playing for about 9 months now but I do lose every game. 
 
Jason


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

Hey whats the difference between
 Chess & Checkers????????  (Please tell Me)



Submisson Wrestling is oftean called 
HumanChess.





:armed: :armed: 
  Wicked Sweet


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## Nightingale (Oct 9, 2002)

checkers pieces are little flat discs... you capture your opponents pieces by jumping over them to the square behind them. You get a more powerful checker (a king) by getting a regular checker to the other end of the board.  All checkers are created equal.

chess pieces look very different from each other.  They have different movement patterns corresponding to different pieces... (the king can move in any direction, but the pawn can only go forward).  Pieces are captured when you land on top of them (not behind them like checkers).  Pieces are definitely not equal, and the Queen is considered the most powerful piece on the board.  If you get a pawn to the other end of the board, it gets promoted to any piece you want (usually a queen... so theoretically, you could have nine queens on the board at the same time, but this never actually happens unless you're playing someone who really doesn't know what they're doing)

both msn.com and pogo.com have games online, and I'm pretty sure one of them at least has chess and checkers.

http://games.msn.com
http://www.pogo.com


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

Thank U.


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## Nightingale (Oct 9, 2002)

you're welcome.


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## Dronak (Oct 9, 2002)

I think checkers is also called draughts in some places, England I think.  Does that help at all?


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> 
> *The guy I play with has won some championships and I have only been playing for about 9 months now but I do lose every game.
> 
> Jason *



Where's the fun in that. When I first learned how to play Checkers my grandfather used to throw every fourth or fifth game just to keep me comming back for more. (I loved him for that.)

All in all I think Chess is a good escape, but the competitive side does emerge when I get beat more than a few times.

On a side note... I find that I win almost every time when I play the white side, and I' more apt to loose when playing black. Is there a reason for this? Curious?

Take Care,
Billy Lear


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## Nightingale (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *All in all I think Chess is a good escape, but the competitive side does emerge when I get beat more than a few times.
> *


*

hehe... I noticed.




			On a side note... I find that I win almost every time when I play the white side, and I' more apt to loose when playing black. Is there a reason for this? Curious?
		
Click to expand...


well, from watching you play....

when I play white and make the first move, you concentrate more on how to counteract what I do (she moved here...so I should do this...) ...you play defense, blocking.

when you play white and make the first move, you concentrate on your own playing, and play offence.  when you play white, you're more agressive, striking (and more likely to make trouble).

<grin>*


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## Dronak (Oct 9, 2002)

I think that nightingale8472 is right on the white/black difference.  If you play white, then you get the first move and you automatically have the initiative.  I can't recall the real chess definition of what that means, but someone else might.  I think basically though you tend to have more control of what's going on and it's easier to attack and go on the offensive if you have a little more control over the situation.  If you play black, you don't get that advantage at the start and it can tend to lead to defensive play, trying to counter what white is doing.  A key point about playing black is that you need to find a way to take the initiative, take it away from white so you have it for yourself.  At that point the tables are turned, so to speak, and it will be easier for you to take the offense and force white into a more defensive role.  Obviously you'd like to be able to play both sides equally well, but I think it is a little easier to play white because white gets the advantage of the first move and the initiative.


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 9, 2002)

I understand the initiative part. White is easier because it has the first move, duh. I guess I should have asked a tactics question. How do you typically take charge of the situation and win the initiative back when playing black?

My Kenpo Brothers shall save my *** nightingale8472, you're dog meat!!! :armed:


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## Nightingale (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> nightingale8472, you're dog meat!!! :armed: *



HMMPH. ya know, that comment could be pretty insulting if a girl took it the wrong way, Billy.  <grin>

The way I take initiative when I play black:  I ignore my opponent's first move and play as if I was making the first move.


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## Dronak (Oct 10, 2002)

Offhand, I don't think I could tell you how to do it.  I rarely play chess, so I'm not that good at it.  I do have a couple of books on the subject though, so maybe if I think about it I'll check them and post something here.  Nightingale has one idea for doing it, but I'm not sure that really works.  It might help your mindset, but just pretending you have the first move when you don't shouldn't necessarily give you the initiative.  I think the general idea behind taking the initiative is that you've got to look for some weakness in your opponent's position.  Try to gain a material advantage or a position advantage that you can use to your benefit.  If you can find and exploit an opponent's weakness, that should give you the initiative and an advantage.  How you go about finding the weakness is a whole different subject though.    But I think that's the idea, as black you start play by countering white, but always be on the lookout for a weakness you can exploit to turn things around and force white to go on the defensive.


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## fissure (Oct 10, 2002)

it is easy to get caught up in playing defense when playing black! one of my favorite strategies is to keep constant pressure on the bishop's pawn on the kings side, while figuring out what my opponent is trying to do.if he is making a strong push for the middle i either try to screw it up for him ( if he gives me the chance!) or castle and split my attack between the above mentioned square and any other that he may have weakened due to his advance.
sometimes i just tip the whole board over and accuse them of being vicious cheaters!


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 10, 2002)

Billy, I still get enjoyment out of losing. I'll tell you why. The guy I play with is so sound with his movements, pieces, and strategy I learn on each and every game. He let me install chessmaster7000 on my pc so I do get a chance to win during this period of play when facing someone of lower ability than he does. 

Now onto the White question. There are a few main elements of chess. Space, material, and development.  Space has what I would say a sub-cat. control and spatial advantage. Material's sub-cat. elements, exchange, open files. Development sub-cat. tempo, pawn structure, and a couple others I can't recall at the moment. As white develops it's pieces first, that person has a better chance at controlling the center as well as controlling better what other minor/major pieces can come into the game faster. Black has to react to white's threats or try to develop in a different manner to send out the minor/major pieces. When white starts to control and gain the tempo of the match black virtually has to just respond or react. At least this is how my games go. He usually instructs  me in the ways and terms I understand. Being in kenpo was much easier for me to understand chess now than when I was younger. Hopefully this helps.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth


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## WilliamTLear (Oct 10, 2002)

So how do you change the tide when the ******'s are eating your front line and your scrambling your court for the hills? LOL!

It sounds like you are talking about taking the path of least resistance, but how do you bait the ******'s into giving you the initiative?

Thanks Guys... I am intrigued,
Billy Lear


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 11, 2002)

It's actually kind of easy. You may already do this but make a rule with whom your playing with to every other game switch to who's white/black.
Jason


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## Nightingale (Oct 11, 2002)

http://www.conservativebookstore.com/chess/enpass.htm


most people don't know about this rule...


also... from the official US chess rulebook:

In Chess, White always starts the game. Usually the players decide who shall be White by one of the players hiding a White and Black Pawn in each hand and the other player choosing a hand.


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## jfarnsworth (Oct 11, 2002)

I don't use the en passant rule. It can help at time though, I have seen it used only and only if the passed pawn used during this technique has a piece that can protect it from being captured. Usually I find myself just losing the piece during that stage so I elect not to use it. Just my thought.
Jason Farnsworth


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## arnisador (Nov 3, 2002)

I always wanted to learn how to play well but never found the time and the consistent opponent. I should probably find an Internet opponent. Are there good chess-by-e-mail programs out there now?


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## Nightingale (Nov 3, 2002)

you don't need a program.  you need a chess board that has the numbers and letters next to it...or just label a regular board.  A chess board is a grid laid out like this:


1_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
2_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
3_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
4_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
5_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
6_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
7_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
8_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
..a.b.c..d.e..f..g.h

Your email buddy needs to have a chess set too.  then, you set up the board, decide who's white and who's black, and then, for example you send an email saying "Pawn (D7) to D5, which tells your opponent to move the pawn that is on square D7 two spaces forward to square D5.  

An easier option is microsoft's gaming zone...www.zone.com, I think.  or games.msn.com.  you can play online with someone else, and they do have beginner rooms, and even better, they won't let you make an illegal move.

Best of luck.


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## arnisador (Nov 3, 2002)

I was hoping there'd be an application that would remember where the pieces were, code the move for me from a GUI interface and send it, etc. You know, a CTP (chess transport protocol) is what I want!

I should check out the online games as you say. I have a compute chess game on the PC, but the machine plays such a "mechanical" game.


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## Nightingale (Nov 3, 2002)

computers are a good place to learn, tho.  they can be really helpful for a beginner.


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## Bod (Nov 4, 2002)

http://games.yahoo.com has a chess section. There are a lot of immature people who walk away from a game they are losing and don't log off, so always make sure you play a timed game.

I used to play a lot. The way to take advantage playing black is either the sicilian against 1 e4 or that counter gambit thingy when playing against d4. I'm still to get comfortable with a defence against queen pawn openings though.

The main similarity between chess and MA is the egos involved. Also groundwork is a lot like chess, since it is played that bit slower, but there are still huge advantages in knowing set replies to different techniques.


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## Nightingale (Nov 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bod _
> 
> *The way to take advantage playing b...o need to work on our chess language fluency?*


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## arnisador (Nov 4, 2002)

I'm at the point where I'd like someone to say "You should have tried this" or "You're failing to develop/protect this" or "For your style, consider such-and-such an opening". I haven't seen chess software that provides this feedback yet though it may be out there--just suggesting a move isn't what I'm thinking of though. I've played for years--just not well.


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 5, 2002)

The Sicilian Defense,
white moves to e4, then black moves to c5, here you are using opposite files to open the game. The only problem with this is that white has the opportunity to develop the queen and white bishop at a more rapid pace. Depending on how black uses the next pawn white can control the center. 

There's two types of Queen's Gambits, declined or accepted.
white's first move is d4, black moves d5.
white's 2nd move is c4, black takes c4. This leaves a doubled pawn on the c file as well as it is an extremely passed pawn.
This is the accepted version. Black accepts the capture.

Queen's Gambit Declined.
white's first move d4, black is d5.
white's 2nd move c4, black elect's not to take but move e6. Black creates a nice pawn chain but white has the ability to control the center. White can capture d5 but the queen can take back immediately leaving black the intact pawn chain where white already would have file open as well as the black queen at the center of the board. Hope this helps.


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## arnisador (Nov 5, 2002)

Yes, this is the kind of thing I need--hints on an opening/defense to play that's suitable for someone who knows the rules and has played the game but has never played in a disciplined manner. I have some books on it but nothing that says "Just starting to think about playing strategically? Try this opening for the next 10 games and see how it works" or the like.


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 6, 2002)

I'll ask the guy that teaches me how to play chess if there's any books out there better than others. Maybe there's a book of just chess opening. I don't know but i'll ask.


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 7, 2002)

Well, I asked my chess mentor (i'm not sure what other term to use here) this morning about a book that he would recommend. He came up with 
The Complete Chess Course, written by Fred Reinfeld.
Jerry said to me that if he were to keep only 1 book out of his library that would help someone in their chess play this would be the one. Hopefully this will help anybody and I'm going to check it out myself.


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## arnisador (Nov 7, 2002)

My children are starting to learn and I'd like to give them something to work with too. I play chess like an untrained fighter fights--sometimes I win, but it's as much by luck and intuition, tempered by experience, as anything else. I lack a strategy.


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## arnisador (Nov 30, 2002)

OK, I picked up the Reinfeld book at Walden's. How about a game?
http://www.letsplaychess.com/

I'm "Arnisador" there also.


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 30, 2002)

Did you find the book good? I haven't had a chance to go to the book store to look yet. I have too many things going on at the moment. I'll look for you from time to time. Are you playing chess there at any specific time?


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## arnisador (Nov 30, 2002)

As my old academic advisor used to say, it's "dehydrated"--you've got to add a lot of water (sweat) to it to get something out of it. I can't say it looks any better or worse than  others I've flipped through but I've never seriously studied one before. At this point what i want are some openings--I play so haphazardly.

The site I mentioned is asynchronous (and free, at least for the first several games). It e-mails you whenever it's your turn to move. You make your move then leave. Very convenient!


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## Senfeng (Dec 2, 2002)

I used to play chess when I was younger, but I play Go quite often now.  Learning to play is very simple, but the strategies can be very conplex.


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## arnisador (Dec 2, 2002)

I've played it on occasion but it never did much for me. I suspect if I studied it it'd look more interesting but having only played a few times it looks more-or-less random to me!


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## Senfeng (Dec 2, 2002)

I thought the same thing.  Then I started noticing some of the patterns.  Its extremely simple, yet very competitive and controlled.

An interesting note from "Learn to play GO":

_"In 1907, a famous chess master named Edward Lasker discovered Go in Berlin, watching Japanese students play in their leisure hours.  At first skeptical that it had the depth of chess, he quickly became entranced.  In one of his books, he wrote: "My friends to whom I showed the game... soon preferred it, like myself, to all other games they knew."  These early Go players founded the New York Go Club in 1927, and in 1935, the American Go Association (AGA), which today has grown to over 100 member clubs."_


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