# Sparring



## Sam (Apr 5, 2005)

guess what!
I'm all excited lol.
Today my instructor said I am allowed to spar with other students (you have to have some private sparring lessons first so you know the basics and they make sure you have decent control)
so tomorrow I will get to go to my first sparring class.
yay! Sparring was a lot of fun with my instructor, but I cant wait to spar with other people who do things differently.

*bounces up and down*


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## Blindside (Apr 6, 2005)

Have fun, I suggest you purchase a copy of Bob Whites sparring tape and since I think you said you were a gymnast and flexible, Bill Wallace's wouldn't be to bad either.  It'll give you a couple extra tricks to pull out of your sleeve when you need them.   

I just got home from our sparring night as well.  As I walked in the door our copy of Runners World was laying open to this quote: 

"Exhaustion is the shortest way to equality and fraternity."
-Fredrick Nietzsche

Right now I agree. 

Lamont


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## Chronuss (Apr 6, 2005)

all this coming from a gentleman that's about a foot shorter than I am and can still wallop me in the head.  I say take his advice, Sam.


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## Blindside (Apr 6, 2005)

Hey Chad,

Any chance you are coming by Wyoming anytime soon?  I'd like a rematch up here where the air is thin.   And to be nice I'll sic the five guys from our studio who are better fighters than me on you first, I need to wear you down a bit.  So when are you coming out? 

Lamont


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## Sam (Apr 6, 2005)

Blindside said:
			
		

> I suggest you purchase a copy of Bob Whites sparring tape and since I think you said you were a gymnast and flexible, Bill Wallace's wouldn't be to bad either.
> Lamont


where would I get these?

and yeah, I was the ex-gymanst with more flexibility than most


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## CaffeineKing (Apr 6, 2005)

Heya. Getting a feel of how everybody else does it will be really useful, I'm sure. Different heights, different reaches, favourite moves - everybody has them even if they think they don't. After a while, you may even see them coming! ;-)


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## MJS (Apr 6, 2005)

Thats Awesome Samantha!!! I like the idea that your inst. does some one on one lessons prior to jumping right into the ring.  Its definately key to get the basics down first.  Have a great time, but just like I tell people doing their first tournament, is to use all of your sparring matches as a learning experience to grow. 

Good luck and have fun!!! :ultracool 

Mike


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## Blindside (Apr 6, 2005)

> where would I get these?



The Bob White videos are available here or over at www.kenponet.com in the Mall.  

The Bill Wallace tapes are available at any number of online shopping sites, just google "Bill wallace sparring."

Lamont


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2005)

It was really fun - faster than I expected.

(it doesnt look that fast when your watching, that's for sure)

I was getting slightly frusterated with Dave, one of the instructors. I would do something poorly and he'd say "it's okay". It's my first sparring class, I don't have a problem with the fact I suck, I expect to suck for a little while. Don't lie to me, tell me how to fix it! I understand why he was doing it but it pissed me off.

I mentioned it to him after class but I don't think he'll stop. Oh well. 

I had a lot of fun, and can't wait til saturday when I can try again.

(I need to keep my knee down when I kick and come more with my hands)


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## The Kai (Apr 8, 2005)

You porobably want to keep your knee up when you kick, protects your groin/body and provides structrual correctness


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## Blindside (Apr 8, 2005)

Hi Sam, I'm glad you had a good time.

At home you can work you offensive and defensive combinations so they start to flow a little more naturally.  Many beginners get stuck because they never throw combos.  Also when you use a technique aim to land it, many beginners will kick/punch air about one foot in front of their opponent just to be doing something! 

some examples of pretty standard combos:

offensive:
lead hand vertical punch, backhand reverse punch to head or ribs
same combo but lead with lead leg front kick (low-groin/bladder)
same combo but start with a lead leg wheel kick to the groin
same combo but start with a front thrust kick to the hip
low-high wheel kick, low kick is generally a feint

defense is a bit harder since you will really need ring time to get the timing right, but my two favorite counters are:

gaurd high and counter front kick to groin versus virtually any high kick
fade-away sidekick against most hand techniques

American Kenpo has a whole list of freestyle (sparring) techniques, but we Tracy folks have to figure ours out on our own.  

Have Fun!

Lamont


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## Seabrook (Apr 8, 2005)

Samantha said:
			
		

> I was getting slightly frusterated with Dave, one of the instructors. I would do something poorly and he'd say "it's okay". It's my first sparring class, I don't have a problem with the fact I suck, I expect to suck for a little while. Don't lie to me, tell me how to fix it! I understand why he was doing it but it pissed me off.


Samantha,

It's easier to be critical and to correct mistakes after you've had a few matches. Sparring takes patience...it was your first time! You don't have to worry about developing bad habits after just one fight. 

I wouldn't be frustrated with your instructor. He will improve your skills tremendously, don't worry. Put your trust in him...he has a lot more experience than you do.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> You probably want to keep your knee up when you kick, protects your groin/body and provides structrual correctness


We have been taught to keep our knee down in order to protect your groin and get your kicks higher. (when you kick do you lean your head away?)



			
				Blindside said:
			
		

> some examples of pretty standard combos:
> 
> offensive:
> lead hand vertical punch, backhand reverse punch to head or ribs
> ...


Some of these sound pretty good, thanks, I'll try those out. But, we are not allowed to kick/hit to the groin until black belt. So, many of those would get me a warning.



			
				Seabrook said:
			
		

> Samantha,
> 
> It's easier to be critical and to correct mistakes after you've had a few matches. Sparring takes patience...it was your first time! You don't have to worry about developing bad habits after just one fight.
> 
> ...


I didn't think it was that hard to be critical, lol. 

I disagree about the bad habits thing - just because I am a beginner doesn't mean I shouldn't try and prevent bad habits. It will certainly be much easier than un-learning them. I'm not particularly 'worried', but I am concious of it.

 I trust Dave, (although he isn't my instructor), I just have a problem with being lied to. Also, I partially believe that he would have treated me differently if I were a guy - which is why it iritates me so much. when other beginners come in, I certainly will watch to see how he treats them.


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## The Kai (Apr 8, 2005)

There is a upper body "flex" leaning away excessively takes away from the kick.  Except on a Back kick,a low knee postion will get you a bad knee


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> There is a upper body "flex" leaning away excessively takes away from the kick. Except on a Back kick,a low knee postion will get you a bad knee


that's strange. our studios obviously have very different philosophies on that. We lean way over to the side, and kick with the knee down. You cant get hit in the face that way, and your kick is higher. it is optimal to have your upper body parallel to the ground, or lower even. I've never hada problem with the power of my kicks.


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## The Kai (Apr 8, 2005)

What kicks do you do this way??


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2005)

if you mean like this;
 "We lean way over to the side, and kick with the knee down."

Side kicks, Wheel kicks, and hook kicks. When doing rear kicks its similar, only you lean forward. (try to lean to the side and do a rear kick. now THAT would be interesting)


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## altondragon (Apr 13, 2005)

Recommends shin guards...shins have a way of saying hello to elbows....especially when applying a roundhouse kick to someone who sees it coming... have fun!


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## Seabrook (Apr 13, 2005)

Samantha said:
			
		

> I disagree about the bad habits thing - just because I am a beginner doesn't mean I shouldn't try and prevent bad habits. It will certainly be much easier than un-learning them. I'm not particularly 'worried', but I am concious of it.
> 
> I trust Dave, (although he isn't my instructor), I just have a problem with being lied to. Also, I partially believe that he would have treated me differently if I were a guy - which is why it iritates me so much. when other beginners come in, I certainly will watch to see how he treats them.


The first time you spar was a "tester"...trust me. You are right that you want to correct bad habits early - that wasn't at all what I was saying. I was saying that you need to respect your teacher's knowledge and the first time he had you spar, it's ok to make mistakes. He will start correcting them very soon. 

About being "lied to", lets put it this way. When I have one of my students spar for the first time, I will try to motivate the student by giving all kinds of encouragement. To say, "you move awful" or "you are not doing well" is rediculous.  It's the first time he/she is sparring!!!!!

A student with no sparring and very littlle martial arts experience should NOT question his/her instructor's knowledge about how he/she is conducing a class. This shows a lack of respect. If you have an issue with soemthing, talk to the instructor alone after class time.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Sam (Apr 13, 2005)

Students should always ask questions if they don't understand, whether it be the technique or something else. I don't consider asking questions disrespectful and neither do any of my instructors. But I didnt inturrupt class to talk to him about it - in my second post I said that I talked to him after class about it - which is what I did.

oh, and alton - thanks for the tip - shin pads and elbow pads are required for sparring at our studio (as well as helmets and feet pads and gloves and mouth guards)


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## Bode (Apr 13, 2005)

> shin pads and elbow pads are required for sparring at our studio (as well as helmets and feet pads and gloves and mouth guards)


 And cups! Please say cups, please...


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## Sam (Apr 13, 2005)

ah, those too- I didn't think of it cuz, you know, I'm a girl...

but yeah, guys have to wear cups


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## dubljay (Apr 13, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> The first time you spar was a "tester"...trust me. You are right that you want to correct bad habits early - that wasn't at all what I was saying. I was saying that you need to respect your teacher's knowledge and the first time he had you spar, it's ok to make mistakes. He will start correcting them very soon.
> 
> About being "lied to", lets put it this way. When I have one of my students spar for the first time, I will try to motivate the student by giving all kinds of encouragement. To say, "you move awful" or "you are not doing well" is rediculous. It's the first time he/she is sparring!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
 I couln't agree more Mr. Seabrook

   Sparring has to be one of the hardest things to teach, for many reasons.  Often what the person sees and perceives in the ring is very different from what is actually taking place.  I see sparring a lot like a poker game; meaning there is a deep psychological aspect to it.  Keeping the "poker face" in the ring is one of many skills that must be learned.  Veterans know not to show if they were hit, or disappointed if a combo didnt work.  Veterans always have a collected look about them.  That can be very disconcerting to a novice.  To prevent the newbie from underestimating their abilities, in the beginning, simple encouragement outweighs the need for constructive criticism (emphasis on constructive).  When I was working with kids, teaching them to spar I cant count the number of times that I had to encourage them after a clash because they felt that they got more than they gave.  Until a person learns their effective ranges, and how to recognize openings, and when they have struck a solid hit they are easily intimidated in the ring.  It takes hours of ring time, lots of advice, and objective feedback from someone outside the ring to develop sparring skills.


 Just my opinion and I could be wrong

 -Josh


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