# Differences in the Arts



## terryl965 (May 8, 2006)

Just out of couresty what are the suddel diferences between Hapkido and  Tang Soo Do as well as TKD. I mean they all have something in common what are the real differences that makes them there own Art, is it techniques or somebody preseption of those techs. Please try and give clear understandings od each in your perspective.
Terry


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## HKphooey (May 8, 2006)

I posted this same message in the TSD section...

It is my understanding that they are one in the same. Tae Kwon Do (way of kicking and punching) was developed from the same movements and structure of Tang Soo Do or the way of the Chinese hand. The new unified Korea want a name that was specific to Korea and not to karate.

These styles also came out of a desire to return to Korean traditions and pride:
Oh Do Kwan &#8211; School of My Way
Chung Do Kwan &#8211; School of the Blue Wave
Moo Duk Kwan &#8211; School of Martial Virtue

So I guess it would be politics and ethnic pride.  As kwans broke away to establish new "Korean" styles, I think some saw it as a chance to establish their own following.

Additional Korean Styles and explanations...
http://www.martialartsresource.com/...nma.htm#11.0 Different Korean arts and styles


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## Paul B (May 8, 2006)

Good question,Terry. To answer it properly would probably fill volumes. 

I think it would be safe to tackle it from a purely HKD compared to TKD veiwpoint..and even then there are different "styles" of HKD.

Hapkido is based on three principles,or pillars...briefly...

Yoo: Flow..never meeting the attackers force head-on. Choosing instead to re-direct the energy and use it to your advantage. This also tells us to never stop movement once it has begun until we are confident of our safety.

Won: (Point and)Circle...All Hapkido movements,from striking,kicking,and so on..are based on circular movement. All parries and blocks are done with a slight circular motion in order to re-direct and ensnare. Also included under the principle of Won is our hard and soft striking. Soft contains hard,hard contains soft..ohhmmmm.

Hwa: Harmony...very important principle and not often touched on in a classroom setting. Our actions and reactions are directly related to what is being thrown at us. The more force an attacker uses,the more force is re-directed back at them.Be it a physical or verbal confrontation. Basically it's using the right tool for the right job. Also by learning how to "harmonize" with our attackers..we learn to farther re-enforce the previous two principles. 

In some styles of HKD there are hyung,and in some there are none.

 I have heard,though,through Choi DJN's main lineage,there are none and never were. 

I hope this bit of rambling helped.


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## terryl965 (May 8, 2006)

When you move in a ciclier motion what stances do you normaly stay in and what is the normal punches or kicks from those directions?
Thanks
terry


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## Paul B (May 8, 2006)

Hi Terry,

Once again I can only speak for how *I* learned the technique..with that disclaimer aside:

When you think of stances you would usually think of a stationary position,yes? Well..in Hapkido set stances are considered transitory in nature,meaning they're somewhat of a "you are here" sign in any given technique. 

Long,Short,Front,Back,even Horse stance are positions that one will "move through" or end up in...in any given technique. We are also expected to be able to deliver any number of our strikes and such at anytime we are *in* these positions,depending on the attacker's location. 

Also you'll find that in Hapkido stances, the feet are positioned in a narrow triangle with a slight forward lean and a less off-set hip than in TKD..allowing us greater freedom to pivot quickly.

All this is not to say that I haven't seen other Hapkidoin use full on TKD-esque stances,because I have. That's just how *I* learned. Dunno if that helped..lol.Anyone out there have some input on this?


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## terryl965 (May 8, 2006)

Paul great answer so far, here is another one what type of SD techs. come out of those stances, let say foman attacker with a club.
Terry


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## Paul B (May 8, 2006)

Easy answer: It depends. 

It could be any range of technique,Terry...depending on a host of variables. What I love most about Hapkido is that you have so much material to draw from. 

The first,and best,is good running skills. 

Failing that...we could draw from any number of strikes,kicks, and chokes, or move on towards immobilizations and breaks if need be. The operative terms for Hapkidoin are speed and precision.We also practice throws and takedowns at speed. That's why everyone has to be excellent at Nauk Bup..they have to take some wicked falls from those throws after a while.


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## terryl965 (May 9, 2006)

Paul in TKD it is the roundhouse that is primary in your Art what kick is the primary one.
Terry


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## rmclain (May 9, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Just out of couresty what are the suddel diferences between Hapkido and Tang Soo Do as well as TKD. I mean they all have something in common what are the real differences that makes them there own Art, is it techniques or somebody preseption of those techs. Please try and give clear understandings od each in your perspective.
> Terry


 
Hello Terry,

I'm in your area and teach each of these arts.  I should come visit sometime and I could demonstrate the differences.

Similarities:  The one thing that all martial arts have in common in they are practiced by human beings.  Naturally, humans are bound by the mechanics of the human body. Going outside of this range usually results in an injury, whether sudden or progressive.  In normal activities (outside of martial arts), everyone walks, runs, twists, swings their arms, etc.  These same motions form the foundation movements of all techniques in martial arts - no matter which "style" is practiced.  You can apply the same walking motion used for normal getting around as a knee strike, front kick, even stomping.  Running (with the arms) is the same motion for punching in front or elbowing behind you, etc.

Differences: For Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo, not really that many differences - just the emphasis of the training and curriculum.  Hapkido and TKD/TSD, many differences - easier to demonstrate than explain in text.

R. McLain


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## terryl965 (May 9, 2006)

rmclain said:
			
		

> Hello Terry,
> 
> I'm in your area and teach each of these arts. I should come visit sometime and I could demonstrate the differences.
> 
> ...


 
Sir please feel free we love ohter people stopping by. Maybe we could even do some cross training and sparring.
Thanks
terry


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## rmclain (May 9, 2006)

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Sir please feel free we love ohter people stopping by. Maybe we could even do some cross training and sparring.
> Thanks
> terry


 
Please email your class schedule and contact information (web site, etc.).

R. McLain


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## Paul B (May 9, 2006)

Awesome..you can't get much better than that,Terry. 

Please come back and tell us how it went..I'm very interested to hear your thoughts. I'm sure you'll have a blast.


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## terryl965 (May 9, 2006)

Paul B said:
			
		

> Awesome..you can't get much better than that,Terry.
> 
> Please come back and tell us how it went..I'm very interested to hear your thoughts. I'm sure you'll have a blast.


 
Will do sir he is coming by friday so I'll post after that.
Terry


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## Gemini (May 10, 2006)

Quick question, if I may jump in here. We'd had a discussion some time ago about Hapkido being a linear art, but in a post earlier describing the three principles, Paul says everything revolves around circular motion. Am I confusing two different topics? Apologies in advance for what's probably a noob question.


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## Davejlaw (May 10, 2006)

Hapkido is a circular motion art. We learn our defense techniques with circles and the entire philosophy behind the Korean art also centers around circles. The main difference that I've noticed between Hapkido and TSD is that in TSD the training is given using forms. My Hapkido school, and it's just one school, doesn't practice forms at all.


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## rmclain (May 10, 2006)

Traditionally there are no forms in Hapkido.  I hear of Hapkido schools practicing them nowadays, but someone must have made those up along the way or borrowed them from another art.

I don't think I could classify Hapkido as being circular or linear because it has elements of both. Perhaps it has a heavier emphasis on circular movements.  Hapkido is definitely not like Taekwondo or Tang Soo Do at all.  The emphasis is different.  TKD & TSD are striking arts, while Hapkido is more of a takedown, subdue, restrain-type art.  Of course, Hapkido has lots of kicking and a few strikes (to set up take downs), but doesn't have the same emphasis as TKD/TSD.

Some schools may teach Hapkido differently than the way I learned, so this is just one perspective.  For reference, my instructor earned a 6th Dan from Grandmaster Ji Han-jae in Korea (1960's), and I've trained personally with Grandmaster Ji Han-jae for about 30 hours of class time.

R. McLain


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## Davejlaw (May 10, 2006)

Well put...I didn't mean to imply that Hapkido was ONLY circular. Hapkido incorporates what is effective and is not easily catagorized into a genre of martial arts. This explains why our kicks look TKD-esque, our ground fighting resembles BJJ closely, our joint locks not too different from Chin-Na, etc. You got to train with GM Han! I'm very jealous!


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## Paul B (May 10, 2006)

rmclain said:
			
		

> Traditionally there are no forms in Hapkido. I hear of Hapkido schools practicing them nowadays, but someone must have made those up along the way or borrowed them from another art.


 
Hi Robert,

I have heard that many (if not most)of the forms came from GM Myung,Kwang Sik. 



			
				rmclain said:
			
		

> ....I don't think I could classify Hapkido as being circular or linear because it has elements of both. Perhaps it has a heavier emphasis on circular movements.


 
I agree..Hapkido is very hard to put in a box..especially with all the variance between practitioners/styles/Orgs. As reference to being *strictly* a circular or linear art I know that the way I learned has decidedly heavy circular movement. I would think that the linear striking using a circular movement as a "set-up" is emphasized in the Won principle,though. And I also have to correct myself for a typo earlier..it is Wha for harmony,not Hwa..jeez.:whip:


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## matt.m (May 17, 2006)

Gee, 

Ok I am going with the way I learned it way as well.  Oh yeah and the lineage thing too.......Choi-/ Won Kwang Wha, who was class mates with Ji Han Jai -/ Lee H. Park, was a student of Won Kwang Wha.  With that said my father and currently Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido instructor were students of Lee H. Park.  I currently hold the rankings of orange in both arts.

So here goes: Hapkido has a few kicks such as: front leg inverted arc kick, sythe, stomp and inverted stomp that Tae Kwon Do do not have in their forms so they are not taught in a big majority of Tae Kwon Do ciriculums.  Twist kick for instance, although in Gae Bek,(Black belt form) isn't even taught until blue belt in Moo Sul Kwan Tae Kwon Do whereas the twist kick is taught at yellow belt level in Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido.

By the way when taking belt ranking into consideration I am going from my schools standard which is (White, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, red, then black <Dan ranks>).  
In Moo Sul Kwan it takes an average of five years of going to class consistently twice a week, tournaments / and placing, as well as the National Convention to be considered for dan testing.

Now with the kicking out the way, as I have observed - having watched and participated in class I have made the following conclusions.  Tae Kwon Do has the forms (ITF and WTF), one step sparring, basics, and self-defense in the ciriculum.  Hapkido has the throwing, joint locking, cane techniques, modified and one arm throwing  which Tae Kwon will do will not do.

Make no mistake whatsoever though, Traditional Tae Kwon Do from a serious practitioner is an incredibly hard work out.  Even at orange belt level, to work kicking - knee,mid section, and head height as well as combination kicking.  Followed by basics and one steps, finished off by forms is not an easy feat.  Especially if you are concentrating on the snap and pop of the form.

Sorry I know nothing of Tang Soo Do.  I have never seen its ciriculum nor participated in a class.  I know that Chuck Norris holds dan ranking in the art.


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## Brad Dunne (May 17, 2006)

terry1965, how did the instructional meeting with Mr McClain go? I know you posted something about the meeting, but I was wondering if you could go into a little more detail on what you and your students experienced and if you have any plans on possibly adapting anything into your current curriculum.


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## terryl965 (May 17, 2006)

Brad Dunne said:
			
		

> terry1965, how did the instructional meeting with Mr McClain go? I know you posted something about the meeting, but I was wondering if you could go into a little more detail on what you and your students experienced and if you have any plans on possibly adapting anything into your current curriculum.


 
Master McLain had some great stuff and is a wonderful gentleman, I'm even considering taken some classes from him, he is that good. he mainly did some Forms and alot of SD techs. and the best part is his teaching methods. They are crisp and to the point for everyone to follow.
Terry


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## FearlessFreep (May 17, 2006)

_
 I don't think I could classify Hapkido as being circular or linear because it has elements of both_


I made a remakr to my new teacher about the circular versus linear motions of Hapkido vs Taekwondo and he came back with an analogy of a wheel that has a circle with linear spokes...they work together.


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