# BJJ vs Shoot vs Catch grappling



## crazydiamond (Jan 18, 2017)

Can someone explain the differences ?

My grappling experience/training is very limited. I am about to attended a seminar that will include some Shoot. I have only practiced some very basic BJJ moves so far.


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## Danny T (Jan 18, 2017)

Shoot Wrestling is a combat sport with its origins in Japan's professional wrestling. Shoot is a term referring to "any unscripted action within a scripted wrestling bout. Many professional wrestlers attempted to use more realistic or even "full contact" moves in their matches to increase their excitement and many of those were referred to as Shoot.
Shooto was a MMA promotion in Japan that had many shoot wrestlers competing in them. Since then many of those competitors have advance the training of freestyle wrestling now known as Shoot Wrestling.


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## drop bear (Jan 18, 2017)

Shoot will have more stand up.  Focus on top control and getting up off the ground.


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## crazydiamond (Jan 18, 2017)

Thanks - dumb question is "Catch" and "Shoot"  wrestling the same thing ? or different styles?


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## drop bear (Jan 19, 2017)

crazydiamond said:


> Thanks - dumb question is "Catch" and "Shoot"  wrestling the same thing ? or different styles?


 Different.


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## KangTsai (Jan 20, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Different.


They can also be synonyms for each other.


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## Andrew Green (Jan 20, 2017)

crazydiamond said:


> Can someone explain the differences ?
> 
> My grappling experience/training is very limited. I am about to attended a seminar that will include some Shoot. I have only practiced some very basic BJJ moves so far.



Shoot wrestling is related to catch.  A "shoot" is opposite of a "work" in pro wrestling terms, in that it is a "real match" without a predetermined outcome.

Shoot wrestling / shoot fighting came up as a term when organizations in Japan like Shooto and Pancrase started doing more real matches (early MMA)

Anyways, Catch wrestling is what modern wrestling evolved from.  The Olympic styles dropped the submissions, the pro stuff turned to all works.  But the basic concept was you win if you pin your opponent or get them to submit.  A lot of the times chokes where not allowed, and there was a greater emphasis on leg attacks then BJJ.  Submissions where often used as a means to force a person to roll to their back so that they could be pinned as well.  

BJJ focuses more on submission, but removes a lot of leg attacks and wears a gi.  It also has a point structure which takes a lot of the emphasis away from takedowns and allows a lot more fighting off your back (guard).  

They are reasonably similar, and there was a fair bit of influence each had on the other.  The differences are more in emphasis then content if that makes sense.


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## Andrew Green (Jan 20, 2017)

crazydiamond said:


> Can someone explain the differences ?
> 
> My grappling experience/training is very limited. I am about to attended a seminar that will include some Shoot. I have only practiced some very basic BJJ moves so far.



Shoot wrestling is related to catch.  A "shoot" is opposite of a "work" in pro wrestling terms, in that it is a "real match" without a predetermined outcome.

Shoot wrestling / shoot fighting came up as a term when organizations in Japan like Shooto and Pancrase started doing more real matches (early MMA)

Anyways, Catch wrestling is what modern wrestling evolved from.  The Olympic styles dropped the submissions, the pro stuff turned to all works.  But the basic concept was you win if you pin your opponent or get them to submit.  A lot of the times chokes where not allowed, and there was a greater emphasis on leg attacks then BJJ.  Submissions where often used as a means to force a person to roll to their back so that they could be pinned as well.  

BJJ focuses more on submission, but removes a lot of leg attacks and wears a gi.  It also has a point structure which takes a lot of the emphasis away from takedowns and allows a lot more fighting off your back (guard).  

They are reasonably similar, and there was a fair bit of influence each had on the other.  The differences are more in emphasis then content if that makes sense.


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## KangTsai (Jan 21, 2017)

Andrew Green said:


> Shoot wrestling is related to catch.  A "shoot" is opposite of a "work" in pro wrestling terms, in that it is a "real match" without a predetermined outcome.
> 
> Shoot wrestling / shoot fighting came up as a term when organizations in Japan like Shooto and Pancrase started doing more real matches (early MMA)
> 
> ...


About the BJJ part, those too depend on the rules of the organisation. With gi, no gi, no heel hooks (beginner), yes heel hooks, submission only, points only, time limit, no time limit, etc. I personally like watching submission only matches for the speed and technique.


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## KangTsai (Jan 21, 2017)

Andrew Green said:


> Shoot wrestling is related to catch.  A "shoot" is opposite of a "work" in pro wrestling terms, in that it is a "real match" without a predetermined outcome.
> 
> Shoot wrestling / shoot fighting came up as a term when organizations in Japan like Shooto and Pancrase started doing more real matches (early MMA)
> 
> ...


About the BJJ part, those too depend on the rules of the organisation. With gi, no gi, no heel hooks (beginner), yes heel hooks, submission only, points only, time limit, no time limit, etc. I personally like watching submission only matches for the speed and technique.


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## KangTsai (Jan 21, 2017)

Andrew Green said:


> Shoot wrestling is related to catch.  A "shoot" is opposite of a "work" in pro wrestling terms, in that it is a "real match" without a predetermined outcome.
> 
> Shoot wrestling / shoot fighting came up as a term when organizations in Japan like Shooto and Pancrase started doing more real matches (early MMA)
> 
> ...


About the BJJ part, those too depend on the rules of the organisation. With gi, no gi, no heel hooks (beginner), yes heel hooks, submission only, points only, time limit, no time limit, etc. I personally like watching submission only matches for the speed and technique.


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## crazydiamond (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks everyone. FYI - there was a lot of hard arm/wrist and neck/head cranks in what I was shown - very uncomfortable even just doing it mildly. I don't do a ton of grappling in my martial art mostly a take down - punch/snap/break and stand back up.  It was interesting in that my partner was a Professor of BJJ and was interested to see how this art handles grappling.  It was also interesting to see him getting tiny bit winded with our Thai kick boxing routines - I mentioned how I get winded doing any grappling and we talked about cross training endurance.


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