# Jedi-do



## Bob Hubbard (May 20, 2002)

Ok, this ones a bit off the wall, but... -IF- the Star Wars universe were reality, which martial arts do you see as being part of a Jedi's training?

Looking at the technical books, etc, latest info on the Jedi arts have them as master swordsmen.  Count Dooku however is reguarded as a fencer.  Which sword arts would fit in here?

Unarmed skills - With there being hundreds of different arts, which techniques have you managed to see in the various films.

Other skills - Would the Jedi healing arts possibly fit the descriptions and reputations of Chinese medicine, and Yoga with some Tai Chi added in?  Possibly some 'dream trances' to round out the package?

While this is somewhat  tongue in cheek, what would it take for someone to become a reality based Jedi?

I know people who talk to plants, I've had a grandparent that could sence things, and have had my own 'experiences' with the unexplainable.  So, I see everything associated with Jedi/Sith concepts to be -possible-.  Now, the 900 years to perfect it, well, thats another thing all together. 

:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (May 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Ok, this ones a bit off the wall, but... -IF- the Star Wars universe were reality, which martial arts do you see as being part of a Jedi's training?
> 
> ...



To be able to have a reality Jedi, one needs to
find a Jedi to train with. The first Jedi Master
could be someone of feels the force. 

Just my Crazy Thoughts.

Rich


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## Bob Hubbard (May 20, 2002)

ok.
So, would that me a Yogi, a Tai Chi master, or a New Age follower?

"Feel the Force"...we hear it alot in the movies  "Let the Force guide you"...again, heard alot.

Chi Sao anyone?  I read somewhere that part of Ninja training allows for the sesativity to smell water so as to avoid sloshing into a puddle.  

I've heard stories of ancient (as in very old) Tai Chi masters and Yogis who could disrupt a persons life force by a touch... or heal just the same.


Do you see where I'm going with this?

:asian:


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## Kirk (May 20, 2002)

I think Wicca comes into play here.  Don't they believe in a life
force of, and within everything?  

Possibly shaolins who talk, and have a hair style/lenght of their
own choosing.  They respect all life, including plant life, and they
feel there is an energy within them all.  

Throw in some kendo, and viola!  jedi knight!


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## Matt Stone (May 20, 2002)

First, the disclaimer - 

I am not now, nor ever, stating explicitly nor implicitly that "The Force", as it appears or does not appear as described and displayed in films written, directed or produced by George Lucas and/or Lucasfilms, Inc. actually exists, nor do I endorse or otherwise condone the belief that "The Force" as it appears or does not appear as described and displayed in films written, directed or produced by George Lucas and/or Lucasfilms, Inc. is real in any commonly held belief of the universe as it applies to the laws of physics as we currently understand them.

However...  :jedi1:

Some of the less serious minded senior students in our school routinely make use of quotes from Star Wars, specifically ones uttered by the Little Green Man himself, to explain some archaic or otherwise dust ridden sayings or lessons that martial arts tries to impart upon its modern day (and thus, sometimes confused  )students.  Yoda-sensei has quite a bit of good info, and it seems, at least to my mind, that Lucas-sama did more than a little bit of homework when writing the LGM's dialogue...

There are blatant Taoist and Buddhist overtones, and it is subtle, though not surprising, that much of the instructions he gives fall perfectly in line with _qigong_ training doctrine from various schools of thought.  While I doubt the veracity of much of the alleged claims of so-called "chi powers" (e.g. moving objects a la telekinesis, robbing a person of their life force, etc.), having trained in internal arts for over 16 years I have seen some rather interesting things, and it is noteworthy that the Jedi are reputed to have many of the same abilities that _qigong_ practitioners are alleged to be able to develop...

If anyone is interested, I have a Word document that I am working on for use with my students.  It has Yoda-isms, and brief descriptions of how they apply to our training...  Feel free to email me if you would like a (working) copy.  

:jediduel:

May the Force be with you (but not in the bathroom, cuz then it just gets messy... :nuke: )

:samurai:  :tank:


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## Bob Hubbard (May 20, 2002)

Sure.  Info always apreciated. 

Keep in mind, I'm looking at this half seriously, but still, the more I think about it, the more I, um, think about it.


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## sweeper (May 21, 2002)

wow I realy should check the locker room more 

Actualy I was having a debate about the effectivness of the double bladed lightsaber that the red and black guy uses in the phantom menace, he(my freind) isn't realy into martial art training so it was sorta hard to debate with him on the subject. Personaly I think the martial aspect of fighting with a weapon like that (ok it's energy right? so it would have near zero mass, yet it will kill you if it touches you) would look more like a combination of kali and western foil fencing. reason is the foil is a very light training  tool for the small sword (if memory serves) and in kali you practice with rattan sticks (also very light) the training would probably look more like training for a point sparring match than a boxing match, also you would probably want to look at the two hand aspect, something like kendo. reason being the leverage would alow for more speed, but also depends on what kind of light saber you were going to use, one of those double ended ones would work alot diffrent, and why doesn't anyone ever use two?

Anyway me and my freind were talking about how the double end blade might be an inferior weapon to the single blade because the second blade is always at risk of hitting you when you strike. I tihnk the best way would be to use two onehanded blades, one to pary and one to simultaniusly strike the base of the weapon/hand.

Additionaly, if these guys can use the force to move objects why can't they throw their blades? like give it a good spin and use it like a bomerang? could take out alot of storm troopers that way  and in close range  combat like lightsaber vs lightsaber you could score an easy win.


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## Seig (May 21, 2002)

I think the double ended light sabre would be more closley related to a bo-staff.  They do use two in the new movie, the results were not that good, for the practitioner.


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## Yari (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Ok, this ones a bit off the wall, but... -IF- the Star Wars universe were reality, which martial arts do you see as being part of a Jedi's training?
> 
> ...



Die and go to star wars heaven.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## tonbo (May 21, 2002)

George Lucas actually discussed the fighting style of the Jedi during the pre-release of Phantom Menace.  He said that the fighting style incorporated a little bit of Kendo, a little bit of fencing, some "movie" moves, and even a little bit of woodcutting (lumberjacking).

Basically, he worked with people to lay out a bit of groundwork, but then left each individual character to round out their fighting style in their own way, but within their character.  I was pretty impressed with that, and you can see REALLY well how it played out in Phantom Menace:  Qui-Gon was more conservative, keeping his guard up, but out of his face, most of his strikes were direct, with little flash--he was an advanced swordsman.  Obi-wan, on the other hand, was a little more rash, with a lot of twirls, flashy moves, and most of his guards were in the center line.  Each style reflected the character pretty well.

Okay, back on topic.  

I think to be a Jedi, you would need to combine a couple of different aspects:

1)  Kendo/Kenjitsu/Kumdo/Fencing, etc.....a sword-based art for the lightsaber moves.

2)  Maybe some bojitsu or kali, so that you could learn to use everyday sticks, etc. for defense.

3)  Zen/Taoism/Buddhism for some of the philosophical aspects.  The ability to see situations for what they *are*, not from a "tainted" or biased viewpoint (this comes out a lot in AOTC), and also for meditation

4)  Shamanism/Chinese medicine for the medical aspects and body sense.....use of herbs and healing points would not hurt at all

5)  Pressure point training, for both hurting and healing

6)  Some sort of basic diplomacy training

7)  Survival training, "just in case"

8)  Some sort of unarmed combat training, in case you are disarmed.

9)  Dunno how to fit the "Force" in.....maybe training with some serious chi masters?

Basically, these guys seem to be a combination of diplomats and warrior monks.  Aside from the levitation and mind tricks aspects, most of the other stuff is attainable......if you wanted to do it, I guess.

Then again, I am no Jedi master, and probably wouldn't even come close.   But those are just some of my guesses.....

Peace--


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## Tachi (May 21, 2002)

You'd need some serious control of your Chi to pull this all off, as was mentioned earlier.  When  the Jedi masters get moving, ther are a lot of Chen style movements thrown in here and there....

something to ponder 

Tachi :asian:


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## sweeper (May 21, 2002)

well the problem with a double end lightsaber is that unlike a bostaff you can't grab it anywhere but the center, and whenever you are striking the reverse end is comming dangerously close to cutting you in half. If you were to swing and your opponant were to strike the back of your "blade" sort of to pass the blade the reverse end would cut into your side. And you could never swing or thrust directly forward, at best it would be forward off to the side of your body.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 21, 2002)

> "Additionaly, if these guys can use the force to move objects why can't they throw their blades? like give it a good spin and use it like a bomerang? could take out alot of storm troopers that way  and in close range combat like lightsaber vs lightsaber you could score an easy win."



Actually, in ROTJ Vader does just that.  Has also been mentioned in 1 of the books, and is possible in the latest game.  

Bouncing to another side , time compression....ie moving incredibly fast.  Combination of great reflexes and a "spell/concept" I read about in a Wiccan book a while back.

Mauls 2 ended saber - I've seen some staff techniques where they basically bounce the staff off your hip to aid in control / power.  Obviously a bad thing, but, if you watch closely, the non-active blade did hit Mauls hips a few times.  The movie explains it away as he was just 'that damn good' (or blooper reel time), but heres another thought - protective smart armor, thats tuned moreso to your own weapon, than your opponents. This would allow more safety in executing such techniques without worrying about a parry suddenly chopping your own legs off.

I think the diplomat-warrior concept is accurate.  To me, the concept of 'Jedi' as presented by Lucas would be a highly educated, highly trained, and highly experienced individual.  

Maybe to make a reality-jedi we would take a Bruce Lee or Ed Parker, let them perfect their art for another 30 years (ie focus totally on it) and toss in a Harvard Degree, and some Dale Carnegie motivational techniques.  

We see alot of different techniques tossed in in the movies, the "movie arts" I guess.  But, this can also be explained away as the individual focus as was previously mentioned.

So... How does one become a "Jedi"?  Obviously, theres no 1 art thats the specific answer.  Maybe the answer is as simple and obvious as "Train your best, to be your best, and in time, it will come".  Will you be able to levitate?  Probably not, but, study enough of the Yogi techniques, and ya might.  Will I be able to jump a mile?  Maybe on Pluto, but not without some 'help' in the form of a catapult or rocket.

:asian:


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## sweeper (May 21, 2002)

well if you had special armor to block the blade you could probably put it on a pair of gloves and use the thing like a spear or staff 100%

personaly I think there is just to much flamboyance in the fighting styles.

vader just cut a bridge and the thing didn't come back to him. but I mean like in episode 1 when all those damn droid things are running around the capital seems like the jedi could have just cleaered them all out by throwing the spinning lightsaber down the hallways


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## Seig (May 21, 2002)

Yes, but that was not in the script.


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## Turner (May 21, 2002)

Supposedly the Armor the Darth Vadar and Boba/Jango Fett, called Mandalorian Armor, is somewhat resistant to light sabers as is a special suit with an element called cortosis. This is why Luke was able to beat Vadar down with the light saber and not chop him to pieces. Maul could have been wearing a cortosis suit because the fibers can be woven into cloth. Though cortosis will actually disrupt the energy of the blade sending shards of the energy to cause damage. <Sorry, Big time star wars fan>

I am thankful that the force doesn't exist as described by Lucas. If anger lead to the darkside I can't think of a single human being that I know that wouldn't go down the path to the dark side. So you'd have to have some serious New Age "becoming a walrus" stuff to never get angry.

If the Force were real you'd study things like kendo or fencing, like everyone has said. A very down and dirty martial art because it wouldn't be just for fun.. you'd pretty much know that you would be called upon to use your skills. You'd have to be skilled in anatomy, skilled in science (you gotta build the light saber.), skilled in diplomacy, you would have to have a skill with linguistics because you'd be called upon to deal with people that don't speak your language. Survival skills, information gathering, map reading, Extra sensory perception usage, vehicle maintenance and repair and much much more. Mostly you'd have to have a specialty.

In the Star Wars expanded universe (books, movies, comics and games) each Jedi had a certain skill that they developed. Some were diplomats, some were security/military, some were healers and some were mechanics/engineers. Anakin Skywalker (and Anakin Solo) had were geared more towards Mechanics and engineering because they developed a natrual aptitude for it. When Anakin became Vadar, I'm sure he was glad he had the aptitude because he was mostly machine and it wouldn't be a surprise if he 'broke down' a lot.


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## sweeper (May 22, 2002)

I don't recal luke actualy striking vader except when he removed his hand...   Ok I'm gona go watch the movie now ;-)


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## sweeper (May 22, 2002)

ok just finished watching return of the jedi, and in that lightsaber fight between luke and darth vader luke wasn't hitting the suit his saber was coming across darth's saber untill the final blow, the sparkes were comming from other objects the sabers were ouncing off of (like the railing and the stairs)


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## Turner (May 22, 2002)

You are right.. Most of my information is from books and so forth.. where Luke partially killed Vadar.... really socked it to him and then Palpatine finished him off when Vadar threw him in the reactor. If going by the movies, what killed vadar? Luke just lopped off a mechanical hand. That isn't enough to kill him. Then he got shocked by force lightning... which wasn't directed at him and wasn't nearly the level that Luke had gotten zapped.. So what killed Vadar? Depends on who you talk to.. some say that the Force lightning zapped the mechanical functions of his suit which was literally cutting off his life support. Others say that luke bashed him pretty good in the rage but killing him because the armor protected him from getting severed but not from being injured, which was demonstrated by him basically cowering down at the rail when his hand got taken.


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## Kirk (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turner _
> 
> *some say that the Force lightning zapped the mechanical functions of his suit which was literally cutting off his life support. *



That'd be my vote.  That was the first impression I got when 
seeing the movie for the first time.


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## Yari (May 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turner _
> 
> * If going by the movies, what killed vadar? *



I felt that it was his air support. Openning his helment broke his air support. And he became like a fish on land. He slowly suffecated (sp?).

But I really don't care. I just enjoyed......

/Yari


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## sweeper (May 24, 2002)

Well I assummed palpatine intentionaly killed him. reason is 1: palpatine is realy freakin strong with the force. seems like he would be strong enough to kill someone (even a jedi) with little difficulty, I assummed he was just toying with luke. Also when vadar picked him up and the lightning was hitting him it looked alot diffrent. when he would get shocked you could see large portions of his skeletal structure outlined..  I assummed palpatine was pissed and upped the power. Another thing was vadar seemed somewhat better, after he stood up from loosing his arm he seemed like he had mostly recovered (went from barely being able to stand to throwing his master down a big pipe) but after he threw him he looked like he was wasted.. Oh well..  I guess you would probably also assume palpatine could have flown out. being so strong with the force..  and considering yoda could lift an X-wing and luke could lift C-3po in his chair..


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## cdhall (Jun 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> 
> *First, the disclaimer -
> ...
> ...



This is an excellent Thread.  I too should visit the Locker Room more often.  I came in here to post a pet peeve and I may still do it.  I think one of my teachers may also have quoted Yoda in class.  "Do or Do not.  There is no try."

I want to say that I largely agree with this post.  From what I know of QuiGong, it is about the only equivalent we have for "telekinisis, flying, mind reading, using the force... etc" and that the Jedi have this and some obvious sword training.

But so help me, Yoda is a Wushu Master in Clones.  I may not even watch Episode 3 I have been so disappointed with the last 2 and with Yoda's Wushu Display.

Lucas was also quoted as saying something like "This is Northern California, we're all Buddists up here" and the Jedi philosophy does seem to be very closely related to some of our Eastern Philosophy's of Earth.  I don't know them well-enough to say which.

So they seem to have a close Earth equivalent philosophy.
Some Earth-like sword skills.
Some Earth-rumored skills of prophecy...
And some other movie skills like Telekinisis, "Super Jumping" and such.

If I wanted to be a total geek and pick the Earth stuff that most closely resembled the movie stuff, I'd study:

-QuiGong/ChiKung which also seems to have some flexibility and acrobatic elements that would be useable in addition to the mystery energy stuff,
-some sword art (Chinese Broadsword, Tai Chi Long Knife (?), Fencing and/or others), 
-staff, 
-Accupuncture because of it's healing/energy training and the ability to use that knowledge of energy training to apply to both healing and combat
-and then of course Kenpo because all of what Mr. Parker taught about movement and where to hit and when to hit and why and how is pretty readily translated to weapons and if I knew Mr. Parker's real Sub-Level 4 stuff maybe there would be some funky Jedi powers in there as well.

All the rest about how to build a lightsaber, how to speak to an alien in his tongue, etc I would have to leave up to "movie/jedi-do."
:asian:

I also want a copy of that document.  I'll try to email you about it.


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## cdhall (Jun 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Turner _
> 
> *You are right.. Most of my information is from books and so forth.. where Luke partially killed Vadar....
> If going by the movies, what killed vadar?*



Is it "Vadar" and not "Vader" in the books?

Anyway, I say Darth Vader died because of some or all of the following reasons:

1. The Emperor was using his mastery of the force to keep him alive, partially as an unwilling zombie slave as potentially aluded to when Vader tells Luke "If you only knew the power of the Dark Side."
(I've only seen the movies and I'm going from memory here but I think in Jedi Luke is begging his Dad to be good again and Darth says something like this to help Luke understand that it is futile to try to turn Vader back from the Darkside)

2. Vader was ready to die and "let his lifeforce go" because:
a) the Emperor was dead and/or Vader was "saved from the Darkside"
b) and/or because he knew now that Luke was also saved from the threat of the Darkside/Emperor 
c) and Vader felt he could now rest in peace because of one or more of the above.

Again, an excellent thread.  Thanks.
:asian:


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## Matt Stone (Jun 17, 2002)

Not meaning to get too far off the track, but in vampire mythology, it is often said that the thrall vampires may be released of the vampiric curse if the original vampire is slain...  Might go a bit toward explaining the way Vader was suddenly among good graces with the Force when Luke finally managed to kick his but...

Just a thought.


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## cdhall (Jun 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> 
> *Not meaning to get too far off the track, but in vampire mythology...
> 
> Just a thought. *



You are not off track. I was thinking along those lines when I wrote my post, although I had no knowledge of this phenomenon other than what I may have picked up when AD&D was a game still played on paper in the presence of other people.  
Uh, like I, um, saw my Dad do!  Yea!  Not that I am anywhere NEAR that old!


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## islandtime (Jun 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Ok, this ones a bit off the wall, but... -IF- the Star Wars universe were reality, which martial arts do you see as being part of a Jedi's training?
> 
> ...


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