# street/ weapons defense



## cfr (Dec 18, 2004)

I posted this in the general section because Im hoping for unbiased answers. 

My goals: Self Defense. I never get into fights and dont plan on starting. Not any competitions either. 

Ive always admired the training found in what alot would call "sport MA's". (Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, etc.) I think I enjoy training the most when its high energy and slightly brutal the way those folks train. 

It no secret though that those MA's dont address weapons defense. IMO they are great at what they do, but they simply dont do that. 

Then theres a style like FMA. Geared for SD. Lots of weapons training/ defense. However, with these attributes comes slower/ less intense/ less resistance training. (Of course theres the Dog Brothers, but how many schools are there like this?) 

So, between high intensity/ sport/ resistance, and low intensity/ less resistance/ self defense training, which do you think is actually better to save your life in an actual SD situation?


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## Drac (Dec 18, 2004)

I believe that ALL of them can save your life if you practice dilligently..I'm sure others will have different opinions...


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## terryl965 (Dec 18, 2004)

Again the training you learn from any art will help but it is only as good as the person.


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## MJS (Dec 18, 2004)

I would make sure that you're as well rounded in all ranges as you can be.  Standing, the clinch, and the ground.  In addition, having an understanding of weapons is always a plus.

One thing in your post that caught my eye was this:




> Then theres a style like FMA. Geared for SD. Lots of weapons training/ defense. However, with these attributes comes slower/ less intense/ less resistance training. (Of course theres the Dog Brothers, but how many schools are there like this?)



I know you're looking for unbiased answers, but I have to reply to this.  I certainly would not say that all FMA schools are what you're thinking.  Yes, the Dog Bros. do take their training to another level, but keep in mind, that people also do padded stick sparring as well.  Not the same end result as with a real stick, but you will still get a zing when you're hit with the padded one.  Speaking for my instructor, in our classes, we often do this sort of drilling, as well as keeping all of the class instruction alive.  Again, I certianly would not form an opinion of all FMA by looking at one school that maybe does not train like this.

Mike


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## cfr (Dec 18, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> Again, I certianly would not form an opinion of all FMA by looking at one school that maybe does not train like this.
> 
> Mike




Good point. Fair enough. Have you encountered what I was asking about? I would imagine that you have based on your training. How'd it work?


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## MJS (Dec 18, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> Good point. Fair enough. Have you encountered what I was asking about? I would imagine that you have based on your training. How'd it work?



One thing to keep in mind, is that in most schools, when a tech. is first being taught, its done slowly, so the students can get the feeling of it, the fine points, etc.  Once that has been done, it should gradually be done quicker, with more resistance given on the 'attackers' part.  

Now, as for the sparring.  Yes, we do that often in class.  We wear a helmet and one of those foam dipped sparring gloves, and thats it!  Shots are allowed to all parts of the body.  Again, the feeling is different because its not a real stick, but you still get that zing when hit.  During these sessions, I'll attempt to block and grab the stick and get a disarm off.  The majority of the time, it does not go off as planned due to the movement.  It makes you realize that aliveness is a big part of the training, and what you can pull off with no resistance is very different when you add it in.

The same is done in my BJJ class.  We'll start working a tech. such as an armlock.  We work the fine points and then gradually add in the resistance.  Again, a big difference once that other guy starts to resist.  

I hope that this was a help.  Any more questions, feel free to ask.   

Mike


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## Paul Genge (Dec 18, 2004)

Be carefull of using sports martial arts in fights.  They can be very good, but do instill some habits that are not appropriate for fighting in the self defence arena.  

A true story that illustrates this well is about a experienced Judoka and Police Officer in Japan who during a student riot threw his knife weilding attacker to the floor using a Judo throw.  As the attacker was about to hit the floor he instinctively pulled on the attackers arm to flaten him out on his back.  (This is obviously a usefull thing to do if you are trying to score Ippon on the mat).  Unfortunately for the poor Judoka the arm he was pulling into him was the one holding the knife, which caused him to be stabbed in the stomache fatally.

On the positive side, combat sports with real contact weed out people that would not cope with fighting in the first place. The people left then have a real sense of confidence in their abilities because of it.  This might work against them when faced with a skillful opponent, but in most cases will carry them through.  Unfortunately due to the lack of contact in most martial arts clubs the majority of martial artists would have difficulty fighting their way out of a wet paper bag.  That is why no matter what your style if it is to be effective there has to be contact in your training regime.  If not the first time you are hit you will freeze because the sensation is new and unpleasent.

As for what martial arts to practice for self defence against weapons?  Stick to the ones that are designed for that purpose.  The one I would recommend is Systema, but that is because of my experience in it.  Take a look around and see who is teaching near you.  If they know what they are doing it will shine through.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


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## cfr (Dec 18, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> I hope that this was a help.  Any more questions, feel free to ask.
> 
> Mike




I appreciate it. I need to choose between a pure Muay Thai school where Id be sparring in a month, or my MT, JKD, and FMA school where I wont be sparring for another 16 months give or take. If you were in my shoes, where would you go?


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## MJS (Dec 19, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> I appreciate it. I need to choose between a pure Muay Thai school where Id be sparring in a month, or my MT, JKD, and FMA school where I wont be sparring for another 16 months give or take. If you were in my shoes, where would you go?



Well, first off, don't take my choice as what you should do.  Ultimately, * you * need to decide what you want out of your own training?  But...to answer your question.  I'd go with the mix of the 3.  However, I can't believe that the inst. there makes people wait that long to do some live training? :idunno:   The reason I'd go with the mix is because its giving you a more rounded base.  Nothing against MT, because its a devastating art.  Have you asked your inst. about this?  How long have you been training at this place?  Is sparring/training outside of the school an option?

Mike


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## cfr (Dec 19, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> Well, first off, don't take my choice as what you should do.  Ultimately, * you * need to decide what you want out of your own training?  But...to answer your question.  I'd go with the mix of the 3.  However, I can't believe that the inst. there makes people wait that long to do some live training? :idunno:   The reason I'd go with the mix is because its giving you a more rounded base.  Nothing against MT, because its a devastating art.  Have you asked your inst. about this?  How long have you been training at this place?  Is sparring/training outside of the school an option?
> 
> Mike




Ive been there for 14 months. Sparring outside may be an option if could find someone else as frustrated as me. I have asked the instructor. Thats just what he beleives in because sparring to early can lead to bad habits according to him. (dont shoot the messenger, those are his thoughts not mine.) 

I realized I probably painted too ugly of a picture. We dont stand in one spot for all of our training. We definately move around and work on footwork while we do our drills. 4 - 6 months I would probably be in a higher phase. This phase has alot more of "my opponent throws in light surprise punches during my drills/ combos to try and mess me up" type of thing.
In addition to this, after many moons when sparring filnally starts, its not just kicking/ punching. Its also trying throws/ locks/ aand sweeps. We do lots of sweeps especially.


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## MJS (Dec 19, 2004)

cfr said:
			
		

> Ive been there for 14 months. Sparring outside may be an option if could find someone else as frustrated as me. I have asked the instructor. Thats just what he beleives in because sparring to early can lead to bad habits according to him. (dont shoot the messenger, those are his thoughts not mine.)



Dont worry..I wont shoot ya!! :armed:  :ak47: LOL!! 

Ok..back to being serious!! :ultracool   Speaking only from my POV, I would think that after that amount of time, you should be capable of doing some sparring, but if you have a good inst. that is teaching you good and knows what hes doing, then I guess he must be looking at your best interest.  

As for sparring outside of the class...I'm sure someone, even if it was after the class, would be happy to work with you.

Mike


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