# What’s a good knife?



## psilent child (May 14, 2020)

I’m looking for a good knife for myself to carry around for protection.


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## jobo (May 14, 2020)

protection from what ?

if you just want something pointy to stick in someone any old kitchen knife will do


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## psilent child (May 14, 2020)

jobo said:


> protection from what ?
> 
> if you just want something pointy to stick in someone any old kitchen knife will do


Yeah but I  don’t want to walk around with a kitchen knife in my pocket.


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## jobo (May 14, 2020)

so get a sheath for it ? and wear it on your belt


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## drop bear (May 14, 2020)

Gerber center drive.


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## frank raud (May 15, 2020)

psilent child said:


> I’m looking for a good knife for myself to carry around for protection.


What's legal to carry in your area? A 3" blade? 6" blade? Can you walk down the street with a sword? Can you carry a knife for "protection"?  We can make lots of suggestions that may get you arrested, before you use the knife for "protection".


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## geezer (May 15, 2020)

frank raud said:


> What's legal to carry in your area? A 3" blade? 6" blade? Can you walk down the street with a sword? Can you carry a knife for "protection"?  We can make lots of suggestions that may get you arrested, before you use the knife for "protection".



^^^^What Frank said. Here in Arizona, just about everything intended to hurt people is legal: rifles, shotguns, pistols (concealed or open carry, with no permit or training required) and knives, including folders, switchblades, stilettos, sheath knives and big ol' swords. All good. But for personal protection, most law-abiding citizens prefer pistols. Knives have to be deployed too close. You really want to get somebody else's blood all over you? _In these days?!?_

Also there seems to be some prejudice against knives as being kinda "ghetto", devious,  ...a _backstabbing _assassin's weapon. Out here in the West we feel that good, upstanding Americans should shoot each other like real men. Women too!


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## CB Jones (May 15, 2020)

Gerber and Spiderco are good.

I carry a Kershaw spring assisted....inexpensive but still a good knife.


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## jks9199 (May 15, 2020)

Do you know how to use a knife in the first place?  Your question strongly suggests you don't -- because you would know what sort of knife you want to carry.  However, if you're going to carry a knife "for self defense", I suggest finding a good locking blade knife with SOME tactical/fighting features, but mostly something that's a utility knife.


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## psilent child (May 16, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> Do you know how to use a knife in the first place?  Your question strongly suggests you don't -- because you would know what sort of knife you want to carry.  However, if you're going to carry a knife "for self defense", I suggest finding a good locking blade knife with SOME tactical/fighting features, but mostly something that's a utility knife.


Do I know how to use a knife? That’s kind of a dumb question. Do it have extensive training with a knife....no. However, it doesn’t take a genius to stick the pointy end in an attacker. I have had too many injuries to continue martial art training. Those days of me being able to protect myself are over. I’m either going to steel or lead. The blade has to me no more than 5.5 inches


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## Oni_Kadaki (May 16, 2020)

psilent child said:


> Do I know how to use a knife? That’s kind of a dumb question. Do it have extensive training with a knife....no. However, it doesn’t take a genius to stick the pointy end in an attacker. I have had too many injuries to continue martial art training. Those days of me being able to protect myself are over. I’m either going to steel or lead. The blade has to me no more than 5.5 inches



The Spyderco Matriarch 2 combines a design originally made at the request of a three-letter agency with the Emerson wave feature. Moreover, the blade was specifically designed for use with a slashing motion, making it relatively "natural" for people with minimal knife-specific training to use when a firearm was unavailable. I've had it for awhile now, and it's a good blade. Might be worth a look.


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## Flying Crane (May 16, 2020)

geezer said:


> ^^^^What Frank said. Here in Arizona, just about everything intended to hurt people is legal: rifles, shotguns, pistols (concealed or open carry, with no permit or training required) and knives, including folders, *switchblades*, stilettos, sheath knives and big ol' swords. All good. But for personal protection, most law-abiding citizens prefer pistols. Knives have to be deployed too close. You really want to get somebody else's blood all over you? _In these days?!?_




Switchblades are legal in Arizona?  I thought they were illegal throughout the US.



> Also there seems to be some prejudice against knives as being kinda "ghetto", devious,  ...a _backstabbing _assassin's weapon. Out here in the West we feel that good, upstanding Americans should shoot each other like real men. Women too!



Can I shoot them in the back?
Or does it gotta be in the face?


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 16, 2020)

To be fair, if you can carry a pistol, a pistol knife combo cant go wrong.    Just make sure you keep the knife sharp etc and try and keep it on you specfically for fighting purposes.     could always carry a more utility knife on you for day to day cutting.   Specfics are always down to your situation.


Oh and i see the "do we cut or stab" as natural fighters argument coming up here.


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## Oni_Kadaki (May 16, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Switchblades are legal in Arizona?  I thought they were illegal throughout the US.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep! Speaking as a recovering New Yorker, some states are considerably more free than others. In my current location of Tennessee, for example, I have two switchblades on my nightstand, several pistols, all of which have magazine capacities greater than ten rounds, and a Steyr AUG chilling under my bed. Couldn't do that back home in NY!


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## Flying Crane (May 16, 2020)

Oni_Kadaki said:


> Yep! Speaking as a recovering New Yorker, some states are considerably more free than others. In my current location of Tennessee, for example, I have two switchblades on my nightstand, several pistols, all of which have magazine capacities greater than ten rounds, and a Steyr AUG chilling under my bed. Couldn't do that back home in NY!


That seems like a lot of firepower on your nightstand.  Are you in a high-crime area?


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## geezer (May 16, 2020)

Oni_Kadaki said:


> Yep! Speaking as a recovering New Yorker, some states are considerably more free than others. In my current location of Tennessee, for example, I have two switchblades on my nightstand, several pistols, all of which have magazine capacities greater than ten rounds, and a Steyr AUG chilling under my bed. Couldn't do that back home in NY!



You sound almost as nutty as my big brother. He got divorced and now lives in a rented casita with his  hundreds of guns, knives, machetes, bayonets ... his functional muzzle-loading cannon, and of course his gun-safes, gunsmithing and reloading workshop. 

On the positive side, he collects so much that I haven't had to buy a knife in years (except for my Bart Cham Dao) since he gives me something really cool every Christmas and birthday! 

Still waiting for him to invite me out to fire the cannon, though.


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## geezer (May 16, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> Do you know how to use a knife in the first place?  Your question strongly suggests you don't -- because you would know what sort of knife you want to carry.  However, if you're going to carry a knife "for self defense", I suggest finding a good locking blade knife with SOME tactical/fighting features, but mostly something that's a utility knife.



_Hurting_ somebody with a knife takes little to no training. Defending yourself against a knife attack (assuming you can't run away) is an entirely different story.

Harder still is using a knife for self-defense if you aren't prepared to possibly kill or seriously wound your attacker and face all the legal, social and psychological fallout associated with that.

In short, carrying a knife for self defense is not the ideal choice for many people.


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## Oni_Kadaki (May 16, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> That seems like a lot of firepower on your nightstand.  Are you in a high-crime area?





geezer said:


> You sound almost as nutty as my big brother.



I'm actually in a pretty safe area, but, to clarify, that post was more to illustrate what some states allow me to have, as opposed to what I keep loaded and ready. As for what I actually keep ready, I have one pistol-caliber carbine and two pistols ready to go at all times. As for why I own all that stuff, I'm an armed professional and semi-professional competitive shooter... It kinda comes with the territory.

Mind you, none of that is meant to detract from my nuttiness


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## Dirty Dog (May 16, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Switchblades are legal in Arizona?  I thought they were illegal throughout the US.



Not at all. They're legal in at least half the US. And that number is growing, as people realize how stupid it is to make them illegal.



Flying Crane said:


> That seems like a lot of firepower on your nightstand.  Are you in a high-crime area?



Bedside firepower helps make sure your area stays low crime.


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## geezer (May 16, 2020)

Oni_Kadaki said:


> I As for why I own all that stuff, I'm an armed professional and semi-professional competitive shooter... It kinda comes with the territory. Mind you, *none of that is meant to detract from my nuttiness*



^^^^ Detract from your _nuttiness?_ Not at all! 

BTW my brother may be a little out of control regarding his collecting, but he is also a competitive shooter (and really good for his advanced age, I hear) ..and one of the safest people I've gone shooting with. I was proud to have him instruct my then teenage son in firearms basics ...since the kid would never listen to me at that age!


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## Oni_Kadaki (May 16, 2020)

geezer said:


> ^^^^ Detract from your _nuttiness?_ Not at all!
> 
> BTW my brother may be a little out of control regarding his collecting, but he is also a competitive shooter (and really good for his advanced age, I hear)



My first competition was in the military, and I placed fifth out of one hundred shooters on my base, which, at the time, was a special operations base. I felt pretty damn good about myself. My second competition was a civilian match, and I proceeded to get my *** handed to me by a bunch of guys twice my age. Ask anyone who has shot a USPSA match, those older guys with the sweet race guns are not to be underestimated!


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## geezer (May 16, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Not at all. They're legal in at least half the US. And that number is growing, as people realize how stupid it is to make them illegal.



You _don't_ think switchblades should be illegal? What? Didn't you ever see _West Side Story?
_
Let a kid get his hand on a_ switchblade, _and next thing you know he'll be greasin' back his hair, dancin' around in the street, snapping his fingers and listenin' to rock and roll!


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## geezer (May 16, 2020)

Or maybe that's an old photo of early FMA training  in the US, somewhere in NYC in the 1950s?


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## jks9199 (May 16, 2020)

psilent child said:


> Do I know how to use a knife? That’s kind of a dumb question. Do it have extensive training with a knife....no. However, it doesn’t take a genius to stick the pointy end in an attacker. I have had too many injuries to continue martial art training. Those days of me being able to protect myself are over. I’m either going to steel or lead. The blade has to me no more than 5.5 inches


Without appropriate training and preparation, neither will do you any good.  I speak as a martial artist of over 3 decades, a police officer of 20 years, with current instructor certifications in defensive tactics, general instructor, Taser (professional & civilian) and a recently lapsed firearms instructor certification.  There's a lot more to using a knife effectively for self defense than "the pointy end goes in the other guy."  There's a lot in using a firearm for self defense, too.  To begin with -- you better be able to justify using lethal force with either one, unless you want to get special classes in Bubba Ray's Gray Bar Dancing School.  If you can't train with the weapons, you won't be able to use them effectively.


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## jks9199 (May 16, 2020)

Rat said:


> To be fair, if you can carry a pistol, a pistol knife combo cant go wrong.    Just make sure you keep the knife sharp etc and try and keep it on you specfically for fighting purposes.     could always carry a more utility knife on you for day to day cutting.   Specfics are always down to your situation.
> 
> 
> Oh and i see the "do we cut or stab" as natural fighters argument coming up here.


I would discourage carrying a knife solely as a weapon today, in the US.  With some specific local exceptions.  You're much better off presenting a "I used this knife that I happen to carry regularly for all the things you use a knife for to protect myself" defense.  It might even keep you on the right side of concealed weapon laws, depending on specific wording and case law.


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## drop bear (May 17, 2020)

Anyway. Pointy blade, easy to carry, a handle that won't slip and a decent lock. And you should be ok .

I would suggest something from cold steel in a triad lock. Which you can go from budget to super expensive if you want.

But if all you need to do is shank people then budget will work fine. As it is generally edge retention, fit and finish and sometimes materials that makes expensive knives worth the money.

And you don't really need that. Because you are technically only going to be using it for a few seconds.






This is the budget version of a knife I own. It scrimps on steel and handle material. Which means if you were actually using it it is slightly more uncomfortable over time and you have to sharpen it a bit more often. None of which matters.

Otherwise you do get a honking big knife with a big handle you won't drop.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 17, 2020)

Theoretically any knife should be fine for self-defense. Practically, there are questions to ask. 

1: Is the knife somewhere you have easy access to? If it's in your pocket, underneath your wallet, you might do better defending yourself than rummaging through your pocket and trying to flip it open and getting clocked before you get it out.

2: Do you know how to hold on to it? For most people this shouldn't be an issue, but for anyone who's had training in knife defense or wrist locks, if you pull a knife against them and don't know how to hold onto it you just put yourself in a bad position.

3: Do you know how to use a knife better than others? If you pull a knife on someone, they are much more likely to pull a knife on you, or to use the knife they're threatening (but weren't intending to use) on you, so now it's a knife on knife fight which hopefully you are trained to handle.

4: Mentally are you prepared to cut with a knife? Any weapon you pull out you should be prepared to use. If you aren't and the other guy notices, it becomes a liability, not a weapon.

5: Do you know the legal ramifications of stabbing/slicing with a knife in your area? This is at the same time the most and least important question. The most because you may prevent yourself from getting mugged, but end up spending years in prison if you don't understand your knife laws. The least because if he is planning to kill you, then jail is always a preferable alternative to death. But that's only if that's what he's actually planning on doing.

6: Not a question but a reminder generally covered in the others. Before you pull out the knife, the incident can likely be handled by giving whomever your money/wallet/whatever it is that they're asking for. When you pull out a knife, you are betting your (and their) life on the result. So be sure that's something that you're okay with before pulling out your knife.


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## CB Jones (May 17, 2020)

drop bear said:


> And you don't really need that. Because you are technically only going to be using it for a few seconds.



I don't buy with expensive knives and sunglasses.....guaranteed to lose or break them.

Now I buy cheap and when they break or wear out just replace them.


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 17, 2020)

jks9199 said:


> I would discourage carrying a knife solely as a weapon today, in the US.  With some specific local exceptions.  You're much better off presenting a "I used this knife that I happen to carry regularly for all the things you use a knife for to protect myself" defense.  It might even keep you on the right side of concealed weapon laws, depending on specific wording and case law.



Its a mixed bag.    But pragmatically speaking, keeping your fighting knife reserved for emergencies makes sense an carrying a utility knife that you beat up daily so you dont dull your emergency knife does also.  

You could go down the route of animal defence.  Say "i carrying this object predominately for defence against animals" and then if someone attacks you its kind of all bets are  off if you are lawfully allowed to use the force level you use.      The legal **** is just a mess to be honest, some of it is just nonsense.    Its kind of basically, treading around getting over scrutinized in court and trying not to get a charge brought against you or details looked at further in case they charge you.


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## drop bear (May 17, 2020)

Rat said:


> Its a mixed bag.    But pragmatically speaking, keeping your fighting knife reserved for emergencies makes sense an carrying a utility knife that you beat up daily so you dont dull your emergency knife does also.
> 
> You could go down the route of animal defence.  Say "i carrying this object predominately for defence against animals" and then if someone attacks you its kind of all bets are  off if you are lawfully allowed to use the force level you use.      The legal **** is just a mess to be honest, some of it is just nonsense.    Its kind of basically, treading around getting over scrutinized in court and trying not to get a charge brought against you or details looked at further in case they charge you.



You will be better at handling the knife you use than the knife you don't. Bayonet are not sharp. This daily knife has to be pretty beat up not to function in a self defense situation.


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 18, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You will be better at handling the knife you use than the knife you don't. Bayonet are not sharp. This daily knife has to be pretty beat up not to function in a self defense situation.



As is carry compliance a issue, so is maintence of blades.  historically you can find people sharpen their knives/swords to diffrent degrees, some people next to never sharpened their blades, others did it more often to maitain it sharp for a campaign.

Keeping a emergency use knife would basically be "dont use it, so you dont need to sharpen it".       And bayonets have the above issue, depends on the soldier and the amount they sharpen it, same with their knives.    (spike bayonets arent really in use today and are not relivent to this)


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## punisher73 (May 18, 2020)

I agree with whomever said to check your local/state laws.  Talk to an attorney and find out how the police/prosecutor (or DA) view carrying a knife.

For example, I have seen someone brought in for having a little pocket knife (blade under 2 inches) because when asked he told the officer it was for protection.  Well, now that is "intent to go armed" and was charged as carrying/conceal weapon (CCW in Michigan).  If he had said, he uses it to cut up boxes/twine for work around the house he would have been fine.  So, depending on your area even a "legal knife" can get you in legal trouble.

As far as usage.  If you have too many physical issues to do things empty handed, I would say that you are out of luck with trying to carry a legal knife and successfully use it for self-defense.  It is going to be a VERY narrow set of circumstances (I would probably say never, but there is that ONE thing that could happen) that would allow you to draw and brandish your knife to deter the attacker when the risk of deadly force wasn't present and usually by the time the deadly force circumstance would be presenting itself, you aren't going to have time to draw and use your knife before you are involved in a conflict.


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## drop bear (May 19, 2020)

Rat said:


> As is carry compliance a issue, so is maintence of blades.  historically you can find people sharpen their knives/swords to diffrent degrees, some people next to never sharpened their blades, others did it more often to maitain it sharp for a campaign.
> 
> Keeping a emergency use knife would basically be "dont use it, so you dont need to sharpen it".       And bayonets have the above issue, depends on the soldier and the amount they sharpen it, same with their knives.    (spike bayonets arent really in use today and are not relivent to this)



Yeah. But i don't think you need the knife in all that pristine a condition. So if you whip out your work knife it is still going to stab someone. 

I don't even think it has to be that good a knife.


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## Dirty Dog (May 19, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. But i don't think you need the knife in all that pristine a condition. So if you whip out your work knife it is still going to stab someone.
> 
> I don't even think it has to be that good a knife.



It doesn't really. In my experience, more people are stabbed with a kitchen knife than any high dollar supersteel ninja grade tacticool blade.


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 19, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. But i don't think you need the knife in all that pristine a condition. So if you whip out your work knife it is still going to stab someone.
> 
> I don't even think it has to be that good a knife.



Never hurts either way.      there is a direct payoff to keeping it sharp as it will inflinct more damaage and have more potetional than if you let it dull.

Second, so long as it isnt a **** knife your good.   (have seen a video of a kitchen knife break on a plate carrier, as long as that doesnt happen when you stick it in them your good)


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## punisher73 (May 19, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> It doesn't really. In my experience, more people are stabbed with a kitchen knife than any high dollar supersteel ninja grade tacticool blade.



Agree.  Here in the US, it is usually a weapon of opportunity and it is a kitchen knife that is grabbed in the home, another common occurrence (at least in our county) is many homeless people carry a kitchen knife around with their belongings for self-defense.


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## Dirty Dog (May 19, 2020)

punisher73 said:


> Agree.  Here in the US, it is usually a weapon of opportunity and it is a kitchen knife that is grabbed in the home, another common occurrence (at least in our county) is many homeless people carry a kitchen knife around with their belongings for self-defense.



Another reason the kitchen knife is so commonly used is that a large number of these attacks (if not a majority, it's pretty damn close) are some variety of domestic violence.


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## frank raud (May 20, 2020)

Rat said:


> there is a direct payoff to keeping it sharp as it will inflinct more damaage and have more potetional than if you let it dull.


 No. A sharper edge will cut cleanly, a more jagged edge will tear and eviscerate. If you want to do the most damage with a knife, you use it to stab, not slash. Stabbing basically consists of sticking the point of the knife into the target, it doesn't need to be sharp. Anyone who has been stabbed by a flat head screwdriver will agree the tip doesn't need to be sharp to do damage.


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## frank raud (May 20, 2020)

Rat said:


> Its a mixed bag.    But pragmatically speaking, keeping your fighting knife reserved for emergencies makes sense an carrying a utility knife that you beat up daily so you dont dull your emergency knife does also.
> 
> You could go down the route of animal defence.  Say "i carrying this object predominately for defence against animals" and then if someone attacks you its kind of all bets are  off if you are lawfully allowed to use the force level you use.      The legal **** is just a mess to be honest, some of it is just nonsense.    Its kind of basically, treading around getting over scrutinized in court and trying not to get a charge brought against you or details looked at further in case they charge you.


 In the UK, can you carry a knife "predominately for defense against animals"?


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 20, 2020)

frank raud said:


> In the UK, can you carry a knife "predominately for defense against animals"?



As far as i know, you cannot.   But i doubt anyones going to cause you issues if you pull out your swiss army and stab a dog attacking you.   Less than if you did that to a human anyway.  You can use what ever objects at your disposal in self defence if the force is justifiable basically.  Non lockable folders up to 3 inches can be carried without a defence needed.  And if you have a defence for when you need one for a object, you carrying it is not under dispute.       (this is obviously in public, if you are in your own house or garden you can keep what ever you want on you for what ever reason pretty much)



frank raud said:


> No. A sharper edge will cut cleanly, a more jagged edge will tear and eviscerate. If you want to do the most damage with a knife, you use it to stab, not slash. Stabbing basically consists of sticking the point of the knife into the target, it doesn't need to be sharp. Anyone who has been stabbed by a flat head screwdriver will agree the tip doesn't need to be sharp to do damage.



If its got a edge to it, you have to maintain said edge, it will ultimately aid you in causing damage.     If its a needle design, you dont need to granted, you may need to now and then rehone the point.   But unless you have a needle design most have a edge, and thus if you ever need to cut with it you can if you maintain it.      It can also be the diffrence between cutting a vein or something or not when you plunge it into someone.       We can probbly agree to disagree on this point, as it seems like a prefrence thing.


Addendum: i did not reccomend or disaude somone from carrying a knife in my posts here, i just relayed a seemingly good practice to have and how some places let you carry some objects for animal defence and might not for humans.   (but may let you use said objects on humans in their self defence law bemusingly enough)


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 20, 2020)

Rat said:


> As far as i know, you cannot.


 If you cannot, why are you recommending that people use that as their justification, knowing it is illegal. If anyone were to follow your advice, while you are knowingly lying to them about it, they could end up in jail as a result. And what you wrote underneath this quote is about what's allowed when you are actually attacked by an animal, not the preparation for said attack, so it's irrelevant.




> If its got a edge to it, you have to maintain said edge, it will ultimately aid you in causing damage.     If its a needle design, you dont need to granted, you may need to now and then rehone the point.   But unless you have a needle design most have a edge, and thus if you ever need to cut with it you can if you maintain it.      It can also be the diffrence between cutting a vein or something or not when you plunge it into someone.


 The edge doesn't matter since as he said it's mostly a stabbing weapon. And I've got knives from 15 years ago that still have their edge, it's fine as long as you aren't using it for other things (and the knives that I do use for other things like cutting rope/whittling/etc. you should be sharpening for that purpose, so your point would still be irrelevant.



> Addendum: i did not reccomend or disaude somone from carrying a knife in my posts here, i just relayed a seemingly good practice to have and how some places let you carry some objects for animal defence and might not for humans.   (but may let you use said objects on humans in their self defence law bemusingly enough)


 Correction: You relayed information you do not believe is true about how some places let you carry some objects for animal defense. And you did not say some places, you said you can go down that route, as a blanket statement. It also is not bemusing when you are making up the rules.


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## frank raud (May 20, 2020)

Rat said:


> As far as i know, you cannot.   But i doubt anyones going to cause you issues if you pull out your swiss army and stab a dog attacking you.   Less than if you did that to a human anyway.  You can use what ever objects at your disposal in self defence if the force is justifiable basically.  Non lockable folders up to 3 inches can be carried without a defence needed.  And if you have a defence for when you need one for a object, you carrying it is not under dispute.       (this is obviously in public, if you are in your own house or garden you can keep what ever you want on you for what ever reason pretty much)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here's the thing. Knowing that you cannot carry a knife for defense in the country where you live, you decide the best advise is to carry two knives. Now, if you're never stopped by the police, that's awesome. However if you are, for what ever minor reason, you now have to justify carrying two knives. "predominately for defense against animals" probably won't pass the sniff test with most police. Weapon laws are weird in many countries. In Canada, we are not allowed to carry anything for self defense. I can legally carry a broadsword down the street, but I should expect to get stopped and questioned. If I'm going to the HEMA club down the street, it is no problem. If I say I'm carrying it for defense, I get arrested.

Making broad statements about what someone should carry (or how many of an object they should carry) without taking into consideration the local laws is foolish.

If the requirement for doing damage was a knife had to be sharp, more thugs would carry scalpels. As it is, they seem more inclined to use gas station knives, which can't hold an edge, are made from cheap steel, etc., yet seem to cause massive damage when required


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 20, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> If you cannot, why are you recommending that people use that as their justification, knowing it is illegal. If anyone were to follow your advice, while you are knowingly lying to them about it, they could end up in jail as a result. And what you wrote underneath this quote is about what's allowed when you are actually attacked by an animal, not the preparation for said attack, so it's irrelevant.



You can carry a  blade though, and for self defence reasons you can use said blade in defence of yourself.*      The issue i am having is, i cannot find anything on the laws relating to self defence  on a dog.   Be that explictly banning it or allowing it.    They are property pretty much, and i cannot find a citation in the CPS self defence page to it or on the dangerous dog offences page.   So im just going to apply reasonable grounds to use the force on it. (as its a criminal offence if it actually attacks you)

Intresting tidbit not related to anything: "It is a summary offence for a person to use, or permit the use of, a guard dog to protect any premises unless a handler capable of controlling the dog is also present and the dog is under his control, or unless the dog is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises. A guard dog may not be used or permitted to be used unless a notice warning of the dog’s presence is clearly exhibited at each entrance to the premises, (sections 1 and 5 of the Guard Dogs Act 1975)."

I would personally if in poession of a lawful knife use it on a  dog if it cannot be restrained, or i would at least retrive said knife and deploy it (if its a folder).     As for jail, you can end up in there doing lawful self defence action and some other things like that.  (quite political so just leaving it at that)

As for the last point, i thought i didnt relay it like that, i was contemplating in the addenum putting "i belive i didnt".

* I listed in the orignal what you need a reason to carry for and what you dont.    I will repeat it here:  Any non lockable folding knife up to 3 inches does not need a reason to carry, anything other than that does.           (i will relay that more in depth as Raud has brought it up)

Addendum:  The citations are obviously at time i looked, i dont recall knife law changing in that regard as its case law for the exemption on swiss armies.    No change as far as i know has been had to carry law.


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## Deleted member 39746 (May 20, 2020)

frank raud said:


> Here's the thing. Knowing that you cannot carry a knife for defense in the country where you live, you decide the best advise is to carry two knives. Now, if you're never stopped by the police, that's awesome. However if you are, for what ever minor reason, you now have to justify carrying two knives. "predominately for defense against animals" probably won't pass the sniff test with most police. Weapon laws are weird in many countries. In Canada, we are not allowed to carry anything for self defense. I can legally carry a broadsword down the street, but I should expect to get stopped and questioned. If I'm going to the HEMA club down the street, it is no problem. If I say I'm carrying it for defense, I get arrested.
> 
> Making broad statements about what someone should carry (or how many of an object they should carry) without taking into consideration the local laws is foolish.
> 
> If the requirement for doing damage was a knife had to be sharp, more thugs would carry scalpels. As it is, they seem more inclined to use gas station knives, which can't hold an edge, are made from cheap steel, etc., yet seem to cause massive damage when required



The self defence agaisnt animal tatement, i had canada in mind.  as i had it from 2 secondary sources you can carry some items for self defence against animals.  (pednign state, i dont know how much autonomy is there)

Going to have to break this down, but the simple solution is, carry a swiss army and use it when appopriate for defence.      The defences given for the blades does not include self defence, but if you are lawfully carrying it or any object you can use it in defence of yourself if the force level is reasonable.     If a police constable stops you and searches you (needs "reasonable grounds" to do so, if they dont need that in your country i suggest protesting hardcore) and demands to know why you have 1 or 2 swiss army knives, dont tell them any reason.    You are not required to provide a reason for the stated knives that arent lockable up to 3 inches in length.   If you arent required to tell them something, dont.  You only dig yourself in a hole, if they arrest you etc, request legal aid or request that you contact your lawyer.  (they have to provide it to you or let you contact yours)   

As for defences, they dont cover self defence, nothing on the page mentions animals.  And i keep getting directed to hunting weapons.    But if you were hunting, you cant do that on public land, you can carry what ever really, so if a dog comes over and attacks you, you shouldnt have much of a issue, only justifying the force on it.


Second from last point:  Other people have stated "look at your laws", i would presume that would be common sense before taking any advice anyway.   Secondly General carry advice say "make sure you keep it sharp" or stuff like that, isnt related to laws, its just general knife ownership and use discussion. 


Last point:  The requirement for a knife to do damage or any object that cuts/thrusts is a small surface area.   Im not being abolutist here, but sharpning a edge on a knife doesnt hurt it at all and if the design for thrust knife has a edge, make sure its sharp, it wont hurt it in the slightest and be better than if you left it blunt or chipped etc.       Needles by their nature, you only have to make sure the point is pointy, by needle i mean spike bayonets and that design of rondel and things like it, things with no edge.  


Addendum: some of the law disucssion is divided between the two posts.  I also only hit the high notes for some laws, feel free to read the sources etc.   @Monkey Turned Wolf   See below for some sources on it.

Sources: Selling, buying and carrying knives   ( hit the high notes)
Self-Defence and the Prevention of Crime | The Crown Prosecution Service
Dangerous Dog Offences | The Crown Prosecution Service
Police powers to stop and search: your rights (hit high notes for stop and search in passing)


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## jks9199 (May 20, 2020)

frank raud said:


> No. A sharper edge will cut cleanly, a more jagged edge will tear and eviscerate. If you want to do the most damage with a knife, you use it to stab, not slash. Stabbing basically consists of sticking the point of the knife into the target, it doesn't need to be sharp. Anyone who has been stabbed by a flat head screwdriver will agree the tip doesn't need to be sharp to do damage.


You want the edge functionally sharp in the manner the knife is designed to be used.  A sharper knife will cut or stab more deeply, will be more likely to penetrate clothing or other material, and is just plain safer for you.  That doesn't mean a knife for combat needs to be honed to a razor edge -- but that it can't be too dull, either.


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## tim po (Dec 10, 2021)

geezer said:


> _Hurting_ somebody with a knife takes little to no training. Defending yourself against a knife attack (assuming you can't run away) is an entirely different story.
> 
> Harder still is using a knife for self-defense if you aren't prepared to possibly kill or seriously wound your attacker and face all the legal, social and psychological fallout associated with that.
> 
> In short, carrying a knife for self defense is not the ideal choice for many people.


I carry a knife, most days, legal carry, 3" fixed blade. i wear it horizontally across my left hip in front, where i can reach it easily and invisibly-with either hand- from just about any position. I have trained extensively with knives.

That said, i would likely have to be holding my attackers wrist, to prevent him pulling his knife back out of my gut, before i would draw my knife for defense, and then i would not hesitate to open both of his femoral arteries.. 

there are no 'minor wounds' with a knife, none that will stop an attack, anyway. knives start at severe and go straight to life-threatening. you don't want a knife to be the only option for enhancing your defensive capabilities. they are a last-resort.


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## dvcochran (Dec 12, 2021)

tim po said:


> I carry a knife, most days, legal carry, 3" fixed blade. i wear it horizontally across my left hip in front, where i can reach it easily and invisibly-with either hand- from just about any position. I have trained extensively with knives.
> 
> That said, i would likely have to be holding my attackers wrist, to prevent him pulling his knife back out of my gut, before i would draw my knife for defense, and then i would not hesitate to open both of his femoral arteries..
> 
> there are no 'minor wounds' with a knife, none that will stop an attack, anyway. knives start at severe and go straight to life-threatening. you don't want a knife to be the only option for enhancing your defensive capabilities. they are a last-resort.


May I ask your area of study?
Most Filipino styles attack whatever is closest, progressing the severity with each attack. 
It can be relatively mild at the onset.


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