# Shin Contact Point, Flat or Pointy Side?



## jeff9978

Alright, so I know your suppose to contact with the part on the shin nearest to your foot.  But if you feel that area, at the very front its very pointy sort of like an edge. When you move toward the side more the shin becomes more flat. 
Now ideally do you want to contact with the pointy edge? Or with the flat edge?


----------



## fightstuff

To be honest you should be aiming to kick with the center of the shin, as this area is stronger than your instep. Also if your opponent blocks it will not be as painful than having a block against your instep. In addition if your opponent steps back then you will still connect with your instep (not advisable). However if you kick with your instep and your opponent steps back you will probably connect with your ankle or foot. If that happens your going to either end up with a swollen ankle or some bones broken in your foot.


----------



## Giorgio

That's odd, I was also taught to kick with the lower part of your shin. Not quite your instep, but certainly closer to the ankle than to the middle of the shin. The reasoning I was given was that the middle of the shin is the weakest part of it. But maybe I was mistaken.

As for which side of the shin, I would say it depends on the angle of the kick. If you're kicking at an upward angle to hit the floating ribs, then you'd probably end up hitting with the flat part by default. If you are hitting down on the thigh for a low kick, or anywhere where your shin would be perpendicular to the point of contact, you'd probably end up hitting with the edge of your shin.


----------



## tntma12

I would have to agree with FightStuff.  You want to kick with the middle of the shin for the best and safest results.  

On another note, if hiting the leg, you want to try to come up and kick the leg at a downward angle.  This will give you more power with the kick.  

Just my opinion, hope it helps


----------



## mini_dez

I'd say that kicking with the bottom part of the shin bone is ideal.  I think it would be stronger there than in the middle, no?  Think of a plank of wood, it's much easier to snap in the middle than near the edges.
Of course, it's probably pretty hard to do this every time anyway.


----------



## Tez3

mini_dez said:


> I'd say that kicking with the bottom part of the shin bone is ideal. I think it would be stronger there than in the middle, no? Think of a plank of wood, it's much easier to snap in the middle than near the edges.
> Of course, it's probably pretty hard to do this every time anyway.[/quote
> 
> I was taught the same for MT, I don't think Jeff meant the instep at all as he said the shin. Our fighters who trained in Bangkok with Fairtex came back and said the bottom of the shin.
> 
> I should add I have seen a leg break with a kick, It's posted up in the MMA section under 'no women in the UFC' thread. Can't remember at the mo who posted it.


----------



## fightstuff

I didn't realize that my answer would cause a discussion  I've always aimed to kick with the center part of my shin. Dropping the shin down at the last moment if I am going straight through. However if I am wanting to following with some other techniques then I will just whip it in or kick up at an angle if I am kicking to the body. It should be noted that a roundhouse kick can come in at 3 main angles, Up, Straight and Down. I guess it's just personal preference really. The center part of my shin is way stronger than the lower part, but I guess that just comes down to conditioning.

On a side note, the guy's leg you saw snapped was pinned. He shouldn't of even been fighting.


----------



## Tez3

fightstuff said:


> I didn't realize that my answer would cause a discussion  I've always aimed to kick with the center part of my shin. Dropping the shin down at the last moment if I am going straight through. However if I am wanting to following with some other techniques then I will just whip it in or kick up at an angle if I am kicking to the body. It should be noted that a roundhouse kick can come in at 3 main angles, Up, Straight and Down. I guess it's just personal preference really. The center part of my shin is way stronger than the lower part, but I guess that just comes down to conditioning.
> 
> On a side note, the guy's leg you saw snapped was pinned. He shouldn't of even been fighting.


 

LOL I think whatever people post up we will discuss it!

Which guys leg was pinned? the one at Cage Rage who was fighting Ross? that's the one I saw.


----------



## fightstuff

Ahh we might be on about a different one then. This is the one I was talking about.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vn8XhP4b4xI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vn8XhP4b4xI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>





 
However I know a lot of fighters who fight with injuries. I had one student doing MMA. I was teaching him MT to help him in his fights. However I soon discovered he had a snapped ACL. In the end I refused to teach him because his leg just kept going and he was doing more harm to himself by still training. Guess what! He still continued to fight. To be honest though I shouldn't give him a hard time, because when I snapped my ligament I still continued to fight for 3 years before I had an operation.


----------



## searcher

^^^

The exact reason I don't kick with the mid-shin.   It puts too much strees on the bones in the shin.   Bones are made to take great stress and pressure when the force is going down.   They are not made to take much pressure in a lateral direction.   I kick using the bones of the shin closer to the foot in order to prevent excessive lateral stress.   Just the way I do it.


----------



## Giorgio

whoo, good to know someone else does it the way I do. I was starting to get really worried.


----------



## Tez3

fightstuff said:


> Ahh we might be on about a different one then. This is the one I was talking about.
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vn8XhP4b4xI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Vn8XhP4b4xI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However I know a lot of fighters who fight with injuries. I had one student doing MMA. I was teaching him MT to help him in his fights. However I soon discovered he had a snapped ACL. In the end I refused to teach him because his leg just kept going and he was doing more harm to himself by still training. Guess what! He still continued to fight. To be honest though I shouldn't give him a hard time, because when I snapped my ligament I still continued to fight for 3 years before I had an operation.


 

That's not the one though as you said it's very stupid to fight with a pinned leg! Mine was at Cage Rage in London, when he tried to stand up you heard the end of the bones grating ugh!

There is a tendency to think it's the tough thing to do to train through injuries and you're a wimp if you rest up. Funny though how the'wimps' are the ones who can continue fighting and have the longer career!


----------



## Tez3

Found it!
Pettifer v Evans (who hasn't fought since)

it says ankle but it wasn't, definitely the shin.


----------



## fightstuff

that is pretty nasty. i bet he had a prior injury like a broken ankle or something before. like i mentioned before there are a lot of fighters out there that fight with injuries. like Tez3 before it's not wise to train/fight on injuries. you know your own body and when to rest it.


----------



## Tez3

fightstuff said:


> that is pretty nasty. i bet he had a prior injury like a broken ankle or something before. like i mentioned before there are a lot of fighters out there that fight with injuries. like Tez3 before it's not wise to train/fight on injuries. you know your own body and when to rest it.


 

It wasn't his ankle that broke, if you look carefully you can see it's his shin a bit quite a bit above his ankle.


----------



## fightstuff

yeah you right. i just didn't want to keep watching it and pausing it because it's pretty nasty. 

i still stand by kicking with the center part of my shin. i take on board everyones comments regarding kicking with the lower part of the shin. however i think conditioning needs to be taken into consideration. it's all well and good to make the generalization that the lower part of the shin is stronger than the center part. However people who kick with the center part of the shin like myself have spent time conditioning it, as I am sure you guys have who kick with the lower part. This is down to personal preference. 

For me it's more a matter of safety, because I know if my opponent steps back i will still catch him with the lower part of my shin, whereas if I use my lower shin and he steps back I'm either going to miss or hit him with my foot. Like I said it's just preference. However coming back to the original post I think once your shins are conditioned you will forget about this "Flat or Pointy" side issue. The next question should be how can you condition your shins SAFELY?


----------



## Tez3

fightstuff said:


> yeah you right. i just didn't want to keep watching it and pausing it because it's pretty nasty.
> 
> i still stand by kicking with the center part of my shin. i take on board everyones comments regarding kicking with the lower part of the shin. however i think conditioning needs to be taken into consideration. it's all well and good to make the generalization that the lower part of the shin is stronger than the center part. However people who kick with the center part of the shin like myself have spent time conditioning it, as I am sure you guys have who kick with the lower part. This is down to personal preference.
> 
> For me it's more a matter of safety, because I know if my opponent steps back i will still catch him with the lower part of my shin, whereas if I use my lower shin and he steps back I'm either going to miss or hit him with my foot. Like I said it's just preference. However coming back to the original post I think once your shins are conditioned you will forget about this "Flat or Pointy" side issue. The next question should be how can you condition your shins SAFELY?


 
It looks far worse than it actually was, partly due to the angle of the cameras, It actually snapped properly when he stood on it. 

conditioning your shins safely doesn't mean hitting them with rolling pins as I've heard people say before. The Thais seem to just kick and kick and kick and ........ lol! Best way?


----------



## fightstuff

yeah from the position of the cameras it looks pretty bad. however if it snapped clean then they should be able to fix it again  However i think this guy's fighting career is over now.

Regarding shin conditions, some of the stories i've heard are unreal. Rolling pins, glass bottles, iron bars, etc etc. Shin conditioning comes from training. For Example, kicking the heavy bag, kicking the pads and free sparring. I heard a good one last week. One of my friends had a pretty nasty bruise and lump on his shin a fellow student suggested he should go kick the heavy bag and kick the bruising out. I just dont know where some people get their info!!! The proper way to treat bruised shins is ice and cryogel (if you have it) then protect the bruising with a shin pad until it goes. The worse thing you can do is get a bruise on top of a bruise!


----------



## Tez3

fightstuff said:


> yeah from the position of the cameras it looks pretty bad. however if it snapped clean then they should be able to fix it again  However i think this guy's fighting career is over now.
> 
> Regarding shin conditions, some of the stories i've heard are unreal. Rolling pins, glass bottles, iron bars, etc etc. Shin conditioning comes from training. For Example, kicking the heavy bag, kicking the pads and free sparring. I heard a good one last week. One of my friends had a pretty nasty bruise and lump on his shin a fellow student suggested he should go kick the heavy bag and kick the bruising out. I just dont know where some people get their info!!! The proper way to treat bruised shins is ice and cryogel (if you have it) then protect the bruising with a shin pad until it goes. The worse thing you can do is get a bruise on top of a bruise!


 
Rob hasn't fought again sadly. his opponent only had a couple of fights after that and hasn't fought for a longtime though there's always talk of a come back.

I love Cryogel! Arnica is good too, tablets and cream. When my instructor took a couple of our fighters to Thailand to train he said the kids were amazing with their kicks and had legs like iron. They were also fighting on the fightnights and some of them were small enough to practically walk under the ropes! 
The instructors at Fairtex had our guys kicking to exhaustion. Good training for them and as they were only 18 it was an education in many ways lol! 
They came back showing us how to kick with the lower shin nearer the ankle, this was new to me anyway as I'm a 'karate' kicker, either top or ball of foot. I have to say I now prefer 'shin' kicking. I can get more power in to a low Thai kick.


----------



## fightstuff

yeah it's a totally different ball game out here. 99% of people train to fight here, whereas in the UK I would say only 5% train for fighting. The one thing which I feel is lacking in the camps I have been to here is the moves. For Example, when you fight you can get away with just using jab, front kick and round house kick hence their training is focused towards this. However for me I have the appreciation of MT as the art, so I study about Thai history, terminology, the old styles, the beliefs and rituals. I feel that some camps are so caught up in fighting they neglect this. However without it you might as well just catagorise MT into a sport like kick boxing rather than an art.


----------



## Thunder Foot

I'm with you Fightstuff, on the area of the shin to contact with. If the opponent steps back,  you will still contact wit the lower shin. But all in all, it really depeeds on the range. If my opponent is out of reach of my straight knee, I may knee kick him, hitting wit the upper part of my shin. It just depends.

I don't agree with the shin conditioning though, hehe. I personally believe you need to have a specific training regime for the shin to toughen it. In Thailand they don't really do much in this department, because they fight every week and have been doing it all their lives in most cases... so bone to bone contact is more tolerable for them. But for westerners such as myself and others, if we plan on using Muay Thai in the way they use it, you have to toughen your shins. The Thais don't call us soft shins for nothing. Too many times have I seen people under the impression that bagwork/padwork toughens it enough. Only to see them in a fight, connect with *one knee block*, and be unable to kick with that leg for the rest of the round, or next few rounds in some cases. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## fightstuff

hey thunderfoot, who do you train with?


----------



## Thunder Foot

fightstuff said:


> hey thunderfoot, who do you train with?


For Modern Muay, I'm currently training wit Sasiprapa Camp.... sometimes Ekyotin. And yourself?
[edit]: I'm currently overseas at the moment tho, hehe.


----------



## TommyMT

I have been taught to kick with the bottom portion of the shin and block with the top when possible. The bottom is "sharper" and the top broader. We do train to condition the whole shin though.


----------



## USP45CT

I was taught to kick with the lower part of my shin.  Sometimes I hit with the center though depending on what my opponent is doing.


----------

