# Who is the highest ranking TKD master in the world?



## yentao

Who is the highest ranking TKD master in the world?


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## Mithios

There are so many claiming high rank. That it is to hard to figure it out any more


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## celtic bhoy

In ITF it is Grandmaster Rhee Ki Ha O.C.M. 

General Choi said in his calligraphies, that Grandmaster Rhee was the greatest exponent of Taekwon-Do and he was the first to be promoted to 9th Dan by the general.

Grandmaster Serriff was second to be promoted and the first non-korean.


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## Mithios

As far as wtf and kukkiwon, there are 5, 10th dans certified by them. All of them are korean and live in korea. Gen. Choi promoted a couple 9th dans ( 4 maybe ? ) Then you have the kwon systems and independent organizations.


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## yentao

Really, I thought the highest rank is 8th dan black belt. Never mind...


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## Kodanjaclay

no, 9th dan is technically the highest achievable rank. there are no requirements for 10th dan. As Mithios indicated there are only a handful of them, and most for service to society, from what i understand. its more of an honorary thing.


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## Langdow

I've also heard its an honorary thing, and can actually quite insulting if you promote a 9th to a tenth in some cases. Kinda like saying your past your prime.


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## Andi

I thought you could only get promoted to 10th degree once you'd died!  That's quite far past your prime.


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## Kodanjaclay

Being deceased is not a pre-requisite. Kim, Un-Yong for example is a tenth dan. Every gone to Kukkiwon and told him he is dead? (lol) Incidentally, this is why print on Korean stylists belts should never be red. Your name should not appear in red, as that means you are deceased.


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## Hollywood1340

Whomever wants to be I'd guess


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## allan

I heard it is only the original Kwan leaders who has been promoted to 10th dan either before or after their death, and then Dr. Kim, Un Young.


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## miguksaram

> _Originally posted by Kodanjaclay _
> *no, 9th dan is technically the highest achievable rank. there are no requirements for 10th dan. As Mithios indicated there are only a handful of them, and most for service to society, from what i understand. its more of an honorary thing. *



This is correct.  One of the main reasons for GM Kim, Un-yong is a 10th dan is that he heads up all the the KKW TKD.  Though technically he is alive, his leadership has been dead for a while, but that is just a personal observation.  BTW...wasn't he supposed to resign?


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## allan

I think he resigned from the KTA, not KKW or WTF.


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## MichiganTKD

You know, with all the phonies and pseudomasters claiming 10th Dan in whatever no-name organizations they belong to, I'm not sure I'd WANT 10th Dan. Someone would start claiming 11th and 12th Dan just to keep their ego satisfied.


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## hardheadjarhead

miguksaram said:
			
		

> This is correct.  One of the main reasons for GM Kim, Un-yong is a 10th dan is that he heads up all the the KKW TKD.  Though technically he is alive, his leadership has been dead for a while, but that is just a personal observation.  BTW...wasn't he supposed to resign?




Back in the seventies I knew one Korean master who was quite critical of Kim, saying he wasn't even a legitimate black belt.  Supposedly Kim's position was a purely political appointment.

Anybody else hear this?  As it is, it is nothing more than rumor, and could be sour grapes for all I know.  


Regards,


Steve


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## Mithios

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Back in the seventies I knew one Korean master who was quite critical of Kim, saying he wasn't even a legitimate black belt.  Supposedly Kim's position was a purely political appointment.
> 
> Anybody else hear this?  As it is, it is nothing more than rumor, and could be sour grapes for all I know.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Steve


                                                                                                                            That is what i have alway's heard from everyone. Including grandmaster's in the W.T.F.             Mithios


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## ShaolinWolf

Well, the only TKD 10th degree that I know of is dead. His name was Hung Ung Lee, the man who started the American Taekwondo Association. He was the9th degree Grandmaster for like 10 yrs. and once he died of lung cancer, the ATA Masters promoted him to eternal 10th degree, though in my opinion, means nothing other than there will be no one else who is a 10th degree in ATA, not even his younger brother, Soon Ho Lee, who is now the 9th degree GrandMaster. 

I don't know how SH Lee would fair against other masters in Korea. Who knows...that would be interesting if SH Lee went back to Korea for a TKD tournament to decide who was the ultimate TKD GrandMaster of Masters. But then, it'd be a joke. So, its kind of hard to say who is the highest ranking TKD master in the world considering there are really only 9 ranks that can be achieved under normal conditions, and considering the ATA 10th degree is dead and never actually was there to receive his 10th degree position.

:asian:


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## MichiganTKD

Regarding Dr. Un Yong Kim,

 It is true he is not an actual Tae Kwon Do Instructor or Black belt. As far as I know, he practices TKD for nothing more than recreation. However, the WTF Vice President, Woon Kyu Uhm, is the World Chung Do Kwan Grandmaster.


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## ThuNder_FoOt

I despise the politics. The more information I receive on these subjects, the less I tend to train. I say ignorance is bliss in these situations.

TO answer the question, the highest ranking GM in Taekwondo is General Choi. If we are talking people alive, then it would be whomever was first to receive high rank under him, IMHO.
 :asian:  :asian:


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## Mudo Warrior

I don't know who is the highest ranking master, but I do know that I don't want to be called master just because of a rank that I have earned.  What ever happened to true mastery?
Respectfully,


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## Marginal

Mudo Warrior said:
			
		

> I don't know who is the highest ranking master, but I do know that I don't want to be called master just because of a rank that I have earned.  What ever happened to true mastery?


Begs the question, what is mastery? Technical skill? All around knowledge? Tournament rankings?

Is a minor called a master because they are truely skilled at being children?

Master's just a word. You define it.


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## celtic bhoy

You are very correct 'master' _is_ just a word.

'Master' can be a different word to different people. 

In the ancient orient I believe master status was earned as much for humility and integrity etc, as it was for martial skill.

In the modern world I believe it is earned mainly as a procedure of rank, nothing more.

The term 'master' is akin to the word 'perfect', you cannot really define either.


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## ShaolinWolf

Right. Rank does not always define skill.


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## Disco

Correct, just a word and it all depends how you say and use it.

Like here in the south, it's even spelled different - "massa". :idunno: 

Yes-um massa, miss lukey done died from da pox.  :waah: 

So ya sees, it's not all that impotant of a word. Ya'll come back, here... :uhyeah:


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## MichiganTKD

LOL Disco!


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## Mike_TKD

In WTF TaeKwonDo I have heard that once you get to 4th dan black skill no longer matters earning dan rankings is just a process of how much you have given to the art and how long you have been doing it, so I wouldnt be very concerned about dan rankings...I would concered about skill.


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## MichiganTKD

True to a point. In WTF Tae Kwon Do, 1st-3rd Dan is set aside for technique. If ALL you want is to master various techniques, then you just need up to 3rd Dan. 4+ Dan is reserved for students who contribute to their organization, National Tae Kwon Do, and World Tae Kwon Do. So if you are 7th-8th-9th Dan, you are contributing to TKD on an international level. Which means these "Grandmasters" who are mostly local (like some in my area) are phonies.
Our Grandmaster is 9th Dan WTF, and we usually don't see the guy because he's travelling, either somewhere in the U.S. or outside the country (often Korea, Europe, or S. America).


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## Disco

I wouldn't necessarily call them all phonies. Not all high ranking Dans travel around the globe for TKD. My instructor didn't and he was Korean, 8th WTF and 9th under the Kwan. Now statewide and region wide he was involved to a degree, but there was no globe trotting. He had schools and an organization to take care of.


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## MichiganTKD

True, different Grandmasters can be involved in different levels. Our GM feels that the Masters should be responsible for their own schools without him being involved in every little detail. As a result, while I still see him from time to time at testings, he travels around the country and world meeting with other Tae Kwon Do Grandmasters to discuss and plan world TKD events and the future. His black belts can take care of themselves.
It is the so-called Grandmasters who don't have national and world credibility I'm talking about, and there are quite a few.


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## Disco

Now, that's a  :deadhorse of a different color. I would have to agree with you in that case.  :cheers: It's the multitude of self promoted people that have hurt TKD in many ways. They should be all lined up and given a  :btg: 

All those that agree, do the wave... artyon: 

 :uhyeah:


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## Kodanjaclay

Fourth is the cut-off and typical administration ranks don't typically start until 6th dan. That being said, the term Grandmaster does not exist in Korea. My feeling is that it whould not exist here either. Its confusing. I had the occasion to speak with several high ranking Koreans who live in Korea and they don't understand what a "Grandmaster" is. I have heard, and I agree, that Kwanjangnim is better translated as Head Master. That is probably better.


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