# McGregor vs Khabib



## TMA17

Who do you like in this fight?


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## Martial D

On paper it's Khabib

But on paper it's usually the other guy in McGregor fights. It's really hard to quantify that Irish touch of death in his left hand.


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## TMA17

I feel the same.  McGregor has been inactive for awhile too, which may or may not hurt him.  Khabib is a great wrestler/grappler.  McGregor is a great overall fighter and athlete.  It should be good.


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## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> I feel the same.  McGregor has been inactive for awhile too, which may or may not hurt him.  Khabib is a great wrestler/grappler.  McGregor is a great overall fighter and athlete.  It should be good.


I wouldn't call him a great athlete at all. His cardio is awful and contributed to his loses to Diaz and mayweather. He's obviously been....over indulging during his time off so that won't do him any good either


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## Martial D

Headhunter said:


> I wouldn't call him a great athlete at all. His cardio is awful and contributed to his loses to Diaz and mayweather. He's obviously been....over indulging during his time off so that won't do him any good either


To be fair the way he spent his time away is an unknown. He might have even fixed his cardio.

Or it might be worse.

I guess we will see, provided the fight lasts a couple rounds.

If it goes past two tho, Macs in hot water.


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## Headhunter

Martial D said:


> To be fair the way he spent his time away is an unknown. He might have even fixed his cardio.
> 
> Or it might be worse.
> 
> I guess we will see, provided the fight lasts a couple rounds.
> 
> If it goes past two tho, Macs in hot water.


Look at the way he's been acting....that doesn't seem like a guy who's spent a lot of time on a treadmill


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## Martial D

Headhunter said:


> Look at the way he's been acting....that doesn't seem like a guy who's spent a lot of time on a treadmill


I'm not really sure how those things would relate, causally..but ok.

Are you saying cardio makes you not act like an *******, or has he been sighted binging at Burger King or...?


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## TMA17

I just watched a Khabib highlight video.  The guy is scary good.  He’s an animal.


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## JR 137

Headhunter said:


> I wouldn't call him a great athlete at all. His cardio is awful and contributed to his loses to Diaz and mayweather. He's obviously been....over indulging during his time off so that won't do him any good either


He’s Irish.  There’s no such thing as overindulgence for the Irish


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## Brian R. VanCise

*I like Khabib in this one*.  He is the bigger stronger guy with known cardio and I think that poses a lot of problems for McGregor.


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## CB Jones

This is an interesting match.  Khabib is a beast but his stand-up will give Mcgregor oppurtunities to land big shots.

It will come down to:

1)  Can Khabib's chin withstand the power in Mcgregor's left hand

2)  Can Mcgregor keep the fight on his feet enough to stop Khabib.

Mcgregor needs a stoppage within 3...Khabib can grind it out if needed.

I'm leaning Khabib grinding it out and stoppin Mcgregor in the 4th or 5th....but I could see Mcgregor stopping Khabib early.

Should be a fun fight to watch and I will definitely be ordering it.


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## Buka

I think the only chance McGregor has is to get in Khabib's head.


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## TheArtofDave

I have to go for Conor because Khabib caused a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Conor finally gets to fight him to settle it. These two don't like each other, and its going to be a war. Unfortunately I will probably miss it because my wife and I are planning for our anniversary, so we both have to save back the extra money.


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## Feitianwu

The Irish Laddie


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## Headhunter

TheArtofDave said:


> I have to go for Conor because Khabib caused a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Conor finally gets to fight him to settle it. These two don't like each other, and its going to be a war. Unfortunately I will probably miss it because my wife and I are planning for our anniversary, so we both have to save back the extra money.


Khabib caused unnecessary stuff....um mcgregors the one who smashed up a bus injured numerous fighters and assaulted a security guard


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## TMA17

That entire incident was disgraceful.  I honestly can't believe Conor was allowed back.  I don't like it when these guys make it seem like it's WWE and act immature.


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## TheArtofDave

One 


TMA17 said:


> That entire incident was disgraceful.  I honestly can't believe Conor was allowed back.  I don't like it when these guys make it seem like it's WWE and act immature.



I'm not excusing what Conor did but Artem had a confrontation with Khabib in a hotel. That's Conor's teammate. 

Khabib didn't make things better by hiding on the bus or posting to Conor on social media that he'd meet him any where in Brooklyn and they both could go gangster on each other to settle it.

Both men were at fault instead of just fighting.  Now, however they are going to fight so I'm sure that will have to resolve the past issues


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> Khabib caused unnecessary stuff....um mcgregors the one who smashed up a bus injured numerous fighters and assaulted a security guard



I believe Conor just saw there was a lot of people on the bus and when they got where they were going they would need an extra hand cart for the luggage.

Just trying to be helpful.


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## Headhunter

TheArtofDave said:


> One
> 
> 
> I'm not excusing what Conor did but Artem had a confrontation with Khabib in a hotel. That's Conor's teammate.
> 
> Khabib didn't make things better by hiding on the bus or posting to Conor on social media that he'd meet him any where in Brooklyn and they both could go gangster on each other to settle it.
> 
> Both men were at fault instead of just fighting.  Now, however they are going to fight so I'm sure that will have to resolve the past issues


So one guy has a row another commits criminal damage and assault...there's only person at fault for that


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## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> That entire incident was disgraceful.  I honestly can't believe Conor was allowed back.  I don't like it when these guys make it seem like it's WWE and act immature.


Oh I can believe it the UFCs corruption level is very high but I'm surprised he wasn't sent to prison


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## CB Jones

Just a small misunderstanding


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## TMA17

Well that press conference was atrocious. LOL.  Khabib was calm and McGregor was coked up?


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## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> Well that press conference was atrocious. LOL.  Khabib was calm and McGregor was coked up?


Probably...not that anything would happen if he was...usada has probably been paid off to stop them busting same as what happened with Jones. UFC is corrupt as hell


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## marques

Headhunter said:


> Oh I can believe it the UFCs corruption level is very high but I'm surprised he wasn't sent to prison


It just made him sell another million tickets extra. Some people can play by different rules...


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## _Simon_

TMA17 said:


> Well that press conference was atrocious. LOL.  Khabib was calm and McGregor was coked up?


Hahaha, it came up in YouTube before, so thought I'd click and skim curiously, had it on mute so as to not make too much noise, but wow that was....... unreal. McGregor was out of control... was like watching a zoo when some animals firmly disagree, although this seemed very one-sided


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## Headhunter

_Simon_ said:


> Hahaha, it came up in YouTube before, so thought I'd click and skim curiously, had it on mute so as to not make too much noise, but wow that was....... unreal. McGregor was out of control... was like watching a zoo when some animals firmly disagree, although this seemed very one-sided


It's an embarrassment to martial arts the way that clowns acting. He's giving the sport a bad name with all his nonsense. There's one thing promoting and talking a little but using racist remarks, saying disgusting things and acting like a street punk is most certainly not the image this sport needs. If mcgrgeor was around in the early days and acting like this the sport would've been banned forever


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## TMA17

Conor McGregor did his homework prior to attacking Khabib Nurmagomedov | BJPenn.com


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> He's giving the sport a bad name with all his nonsense.



Truthfully...I don't really care how a cage fighter acts as long as they are exciting to watch.  Cage fighters are probably not where you want to look for role models.


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> Truthfully...I don't really care how a cage fighter acts as long as they are exciting to watch.  Cage fighters are probably not where you want to look for role models.


What a silly attitude....they're professional sportsmen who should act as such. This is a sport no different to any other. So do you want your kid to watch mcgrgeor and thinks the right way to act do you?


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> What a silly attitude....they're professional sportsmen who should act as such. This is a sport no different to any other. So do you want your kid to watch mcgrgeor and thinks the right way to act do you?



How McGregor acts has no bearing on my son.  We do not rely on complete strangers to teach our son how he should act.

We look at it solely as a sport to watch as entertainment, not to learn life lessons.


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## TMA17

I can see both sides.  Personally, I never liked the cocky arrogant fighters.  McGregor's antics bother me, but at the same time I know he's a fighter.

Ideally it's nice when a good fighter is humble and shows good character.  That is often hard to come by.

After watching the press conference, I want Khabib to win simply because I like the way he carries himself.  (although he apparently has some shaddy characters behind him per that BJPenn article).


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## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> I can see both sides.  Personally, I never liked the cocky arrogant fighters.  McGregor's antics bother me, but at the same time I know he's a fighter.
> 
> Ideally it's nice when a good fighter is humble and shows good character.  That is often hard to come by.
> 
> After watching the press conference, I want Khabib to win simply because I like the way he carries himself.  (although he apparently has some shaddy characters behind him per that BJPenn article).


I don't care who it is I just want whoever that punk fights to beat him to send him away for good. Heck I even rooted for Nate Diaz and I have a strong dislike of the Diaz brothers to


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## JR 137

“People sold everything - their cars, their land for miles, to come in and see me get beat. I went to the bank laughing every time.”
- Muhammed Ali

How’s all this any different?


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## micjustin33

The Irishman has not fought competitively since losing to Floyd Mayweather in a multi-million dollar boxing match in August 2016. 

Broadcast restrictions mean that fans in the UK who are subscribed to UFC Fight Pass will not be able to watch the bout live, so only BT Sport subscribers will be able to see the action live.

If you want to watch khabib vs McGregor fight live then this guide will be effective for you. Watch Khabib vs McGregor Live Online | UFC 229


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## Gerry Seymour

CB Jones said:


> How McGregor acts has no bearing on my son.  We do not rely on complete strangers to teach our son how he should act.
> 
> We look at it solely as a sport to watch as entertainment, not to learn life lessons.


Unfortunately, some kids (and adults) will see behavior like that from someone who's successful, and unconsciously start to believe that's how successful people act. Some will even start to think that's part of how they get successful.


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## JR 137

gpseymour said:


> Unfortunately, some kids (and adults) will see behavior like that from someone who's successful, and unconsciously start to believe that's how successful people act. Some will even start to think that's part of how they get successful.


I call those people “idiots.”


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> I call those people “idiots.”


Whatever we call them, they exist, and are enough reason to want any celebrity to behave themselves with some maturity.


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## Headhunter

gpseymour said:


> Whatever we call them, they exist, and are enough reason to want any celebrity to behave themselves with some maturity.


Not even bothered about maturity. Just not being a criminal would be a start


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## Gerry Seymour

Headhunter said:


> Not even bothered about maturity. Just not being a criminal would be a start


A really good start. I'm actually okay if they don't seem to take life seriously (not sure I would if I made money at sports or acting), but yeah, maybe just avoid doing things that would get normal people into jail.


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## Headhunter

gpseymour said:


> A really good start. I'm actually okay if they don't seem to take life seriously (not sure I would if I made money at sports or acting), but yeah, maybe just avoid doing things that would get normal people into jail.


What's scary is there's plenty of idiots actually defending what he did


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## JR 137

Headhunter said:


> What's scary is there's plenty of idiots actually defending what he did


There’s certainly no shortage of idiots out there. With this whole internet thing, it often seems like the idiots are the loudest.


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## Gerry Seymour

Headhunter said:


> What's scary is there's plenty of idiots actually defending what he did


I'm not sure I even want to know what they're asserting to try to make it right.


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## Headhunter

gpseymour said:


> I'm not sure I even want to know what they're asserting to try to make it right.


That khabib started it by arguing with mcgrgeors cling on and that it just showed mcgrgeor is a loyal friend and that khabib allowed tho others fighters to get hurt by not stepping up and fighting him outside.....yeah mcgrgeor fans aren't known for their brains


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## Gerry Seymour

Headhunter said:


> That khabib started it by arguing with mcgrgeors cling on and that it just showed mcgrgeor is a loyal friend and that khabib allowed tho others fighters to get hurt by not stepping up and fighting him outside.....yeah mcgrgeor fans aren't known for their brains


Oy.


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## TMA17




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## TMA17




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## CB Jones

Wow.....After winning, Khabib jumps out of the ring and attacks one of Conor's Trainers in the stands, while one of Khabibs teammates jumps in the ring and jumps Conor from behind.

Crazy ending to PPV!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

CB Jones said:


> Wow.....After winning, Khabib jumps out of the ring and attacks one of Conor's Trainers in the stands, while one of Khabibs teammates jumps in the ring and jumps Conor from behind.
> 
> Crazy ending to PPV!


Seriously? Going to wait until tomorrow then look that up on YT...That's crazy


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Just found a video for most of it (seems to be after khabibs attack before the guy jumps Conor. Conor got attacked on both sides.
UFC 229: Khabib Nurmagomedov taps out Conor McGregor then brawls in crowd – live!

All I can say is Holy S**t. Neither of them should get the belt...Conor for not winning the belt and Khabib for his actions and his teams actions immediately afterwards. That doesn't surprise me, but I would have reversed the reasoning.

Found a video from the start, if you can see it (from facebook) 


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=667627313608179


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## CB Jones

kempodisciple said:


> Seriously? Going to wait until tomorrow then look that up on YT...That's crazy



Oh yeah, It was crazy!

Afterwards...Dana refused to put the belt on him because he was afraid of it causing a riot.  Sent both fighters to dressing room and then Buffer announced the winner in an empty ring.


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## Headhunter

kempodisciple said:


> Just found a video for most of it (seems to be after khabibs attack before the guy jumps Conor. Conor got attacked on both sides.
> UFC 229: Khabib Nurmagomedov taps out Conor McGregor then brawls in crowd – live!
> 
> All I can say is Holy S**t. Neither of them should get the belt...Conor for not winning the belt and Khabib for his actions and his teams actions immediately afterwards. That doesn't surprise me, but I would have reversed the reasoning.


Yeah what he did was wrong but at the end of the day what goes around comes around. McGregor started all this turning the sport into this. Using racist comments about people's country and religion and his team. He attacked a bus injuring multiple people. He can't cry when someone comes back at him.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

My link also linked Mike Tyson's tweet about it. You know there's an issue when Mike Tyson says this about your fight "Unimaginable never thought it would go down like this.  Crazier than my fight riot."


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## Headhunter

Hopefully now that mcgrgeors tapped again he retires and the sport can move away from this bs wwe rubbish that he started and get back to it being a proper sport again


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Headhunter said:


> Hopefully now that mcgrgeors tapped again he retires and the sport can move away from this bs wwe rubbish that he started and get back to it being a proper sport again


That's what I was hoping, but fighting a guys trainers after a fight, or having trainers join the fight, could very easily start a precedent if it's not handled well.


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## Headhunter

kempodisciple said:


> That's what I was hoping, but fighting a guys trainers after a fight, or having trainers join the fight, could very easily start a precedent if it's not handled well.


Well if they do do anything to him after letting mcgrgeor have a title shot straight after what he did then I'm done with the sport because that's frankly a joke. McGregor didn't get a suspension for what he didn


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Headhunter said:


> Well if they do do anything to him after letting mcgrgeor have a title shot straight after what he did then I'm done with the sport because that's frankly a joke. McGregor didn't get a suspension for what he didn


I agree he shouldn't have been allowed to fight. But if he fought, lost and that was the end of it, it could have very well been the end of it and the UFC would have had a chance to go back to pre-mcgregor. Now Khabib has ruined that possibility.


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## CB Jones

3 of Khabib's team arrested.


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## Headhunter

kempodisciple said:


> I agree he shouldn't have been allowed to fight. But if he fought, lost and that was the end of it, it could have very well been the end of it and the UFC would have had a chance to go back to pre-mcgregor. Now Khabib has ruined that possibility.


No matter what happens mcgrgeor should be no where near another title fight. Yet again he quit never even attempted to fight the choke. So acts like a criminal, refuses to defend a title, takes 2 years off, gets choked out. He should be sent right back to the bottom of the pile now


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## CB Jones

Commission could come down harder on Khabib than Conor due to Khabib putting fans safety at risk at an event.


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> Commission could come down harder on Khabib than Conor due to Khabib putting fans safety at risk at an event.


And what about the fighters safety that got endangered.....one fighter actually getting hurt and could've been blinded, another fighter had a near panic attack because of it mcgrgeor and his team assaulting a security. Yet nothing happened. Normally I'd be against khabib for this kind of thing but I'm also a big believer in dealing with the consequences of your actions and mcgrgeor and his cronies deserved everything they got. First rule of self defence don't start trouble with people because you never know what they'll do back to you


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> And what about the fighters safety that got endangered.....one fighter actually getting hurt and could've been blinded, another fighter had a near panic attack because of it mcgrgeor and his team assaulting a security. Yet nothing happened. Normally I'd be against khabib for this kind of thing but I'm also a big believer in dealing with the consequences of your actions and mcgrgeor and his cronies deserved everything they got. First rule of self defence don't start trouble with people because you never know what they'll do back to you



In the end they are fighters.

Fans and spectators aren't and I would imagine the commission will not be happy and might make a example out of Khabib.


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> In the end they are fighters.
> 
> Fans and spectators aren't and I would imagine the commission will not be happy and might make a example out of Khabib.


And no fans got hurt and what about when dumb and dumber mcgrgeor and Diaz throwing bottles which hit fans...again nothing done.


Also check this out mcgrgeor threw this first punch Dominick Cruz on Twitter


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> And no fans got hurt and what about when dumb and dumber mcgrgeor and Diaz throwing bottles which hit fans...again nothing done.
> 
> 
> Also check this out mcgrgeor threw this first punch Dominick Cruz on Twitter



No fans got hurt this time.

Doesn't matter how much you dislike Conor....there is no excusing this.



Like I tell my son....I don't care what so and so did.....that does not excuse your actions.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Headhunter said:


> And no fans got hurt and what about when dumb and dumber mcgrgeor and Diaz throwing bottles which hit fans...again nothing done.
> 
> 
> Also check this out mcgrgeor threw this first punch Dominick Cruz on Twitter


Neither of us are saying mcgregor is right in any way, and IMO he should be in jail, not the octagon. But, from the UFC standpoint, for the future of the sport (which relies on fans) what khabib did is worse. Im not saying it is worse, but from the viewpoint of the UFC it is


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> No fans got hurt this time.
> 
> Doesn't matter how much you dislike Conor....there is no excusing this.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I tell my son....I don't care what so and so did.....that does not excuse your actions.


No matter how much you worship him there's no excuse to what he's done....making racist comments, jumping a fence and trying to start a fight with Aldo, throwing bottles in a crowded, jumping a fence and attacking a referee, attempting to kick a guy at a weigh in and of course your purposefully ignored the video I showed. Firas said it best. The bully got bullied. At school you can't bully someone for weeks then cry when the guy smacks you back


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## Headhunter

Chuck says it best


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> No matter how much you worship him there's no excuse to what he's done....making racist comments, jumping a fence and trying to start a fight with Aldo, throwing bottles in a crowded, jumping a fence and attacking a referee, attempting to kick a guy at a weigh in and of course your purposefully ignored the video I showed. Firas said it best. The bully got bullied. At school you can't bully someone for weeks then cry when the guy smacks you back



Worship????

I like to watch him fight but I don't worship him.

I think they are both turd heads.

Conor was wrong for what he did   and Khabib is equally wrong for what he did.....I'll still watch both of them fight though.


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> Worship????
> 
> I like to watch him fight but I don't worship him.
> 
> I think they are both turd heads.
> 
> Conor was wrong for what he did   and Khabib is equally wrong for what he did.....I'll still watch both of them fight though.


Really because every time he's done something you've been the one to jump in to defend him. In my opinion mcgrgeor got everything he deserved tonight. It's karma for all the crap he's done. McGregor started all this wwe bs no maybe not start it but took it to the extreme bringing up a mans country, his family and his religion. You say what you told your kid well what I always told mine is if you're going to insult someone and be a bully don't come crying if you get punched


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> Really because every time he's done something you've been the one to jump in to defend him. In my opinion mcgrgeor got everything he deserved tonight. It's karma for all the crap he's done. McGregor started all this wwe bs no maybe not start it but took it to the extreme bringing up a mans country, his family and his religion. You say what you told your kid well what I always told mine is if you're going to insult someone and be a bully don't come crying if you get punched



I rattle your chain a little just because I know you hate him.....and I do enjoy watching him fight. But make no mistake my opinion is he is a complete douchebag.

I ignore all the outside B.S. and just enjoy the fights.


Honestly, I don't see why you let him get under your skin so much.


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## Headhunter

CB Jones said:


> I rattle your chain a little just because I know you hate him.....and I do enjoy watching him fight. But make no mistake my opinion is he is a complete douchebag.
> 
> I ignore all the outside B.S. and just enjoy the fights.
> 
> 
> Honestly, I don't see why you let him get under your skin so much.


Because he's a criminal firstly and he's making this sport a joke. He's confirming people's stereotypes of Mma that a lot of people have worked extremely hard to break. I've been around the early days of the sport where friends of mine were struggling to eat because no one was paying them enough to fight and not even giving them a job because they thought because they fought Mma they were thugs. That started getting resolved about 2008 then this guy comes in and takes it right back to where it started. He's embarrassed the sport more times than I can count and his actions have lead other people to do the same because they think that's how you can get paid


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> You say what you told your kid well what I always told mine is if you're going to insult someone and be a bully don't come crying if you get punched



But you didn't teach your kid that if someone acts like a boneheaded thug....that they should also act like a boneheaded thug either.

That is what we have.  Two fighter one upping each other as boneheaded thugs.


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## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> Because he's a criminal firstly and he's making this sport a joke. He's confirming people's stereotypes of Mma that a lot of people have worked extremely hard to break. I've been around the early days of the sport where friends of mine were struggling to eat because no one was paying them enough to fight and not even giving them a job because they thought because they fought Mma they were thugs. That started getting resolved about 2008 then this guy comes in and takes it right back to where it started. He's embarrassed the sport more times than I can count and his actions have lead other people to do the same because they think that's how you can get paid



So why aren't you as upset with Khabib?

He probably confirmed the stereotype more than Conor ever did?

Jumping out of the ring and attacking someone?  Teammates jumping into the ring and attacking someone.....crazy.


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## Hanzou

Headhunter has a point. McGregor has definitely added a lot of poison to the sport, and the UFC itself is also partially to blame because they allowed it to happen to drive up PPV sales.

I'm not excusing what Khabib did, but yeah, you put that much crap into the miasma it's going to come back at you ten fold.


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## Tez3

*Former world heavyweight boxing champion Tyson Fury:* "What the average fan don't understand is it's showbusiness as well as a fight. Think how big a rematch could be."

and the winner is...…….. the UFC.


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## Headhunter

Hanzou said:


> Headhunter has a point. McGregor has definitely added a lot of poison to the sport, and the UFC itself is also partially to blame because they allowed it to happen to drive up PPV sales.
> 
> I'm not excusing what Khabib did, but yeah, you put that much crap into the miasma it's going to come back at you ten fold.


Like firas zahabi said tonight the bully got bullied plain and simple.


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## Headhunter

Tez3 said:


> *Former world heavyweight boxing champion Tyson Fury:* "What the average fan don't understand is it's showbusiness as well as a fight. Think how big a rematch could be."
> 
> and the winner is...…….. the UFC.


How on earth does this help the UFC....their golden ticket just got destroyed and the champion is about to have a huge suspension and probably stripped of his title with a bunch of bad press.....more than likely mcgrgeor retires now anyway. Anyway why would their be a rematch he easily lost heck mcgrgeor got dropped by a wrestler and he's the one who's meant to be a world class boxer


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## _Simon_

Wowza wowza wowza... didn't watch it but heard about it today...

Does anyone know if there was a precursor to Khabib going out there to attack McGregor's team? I heard something like McGregor did something to Khabib's team earlier on first... (whether attack or verbal something)


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## Headhunter

_Simon_ said:


> Wowza wowza wowza... didn't watch it but heard about it today...
> 
> Does anyone know if there was a precursor to Khabib going out there to attack McGregor's team? I heard something like McGregor did something to Khabib's team earlier on first... (whether attack or verbal something)


Well yeah...mcgrgeor made numerous racist comments during the week about him and his father, tried to kick him at the weigh ins and smashed up a bus trying to fight him and had one of his cronies trash talking outside the cage


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## _Simon_

Headhunter said:


> Well yeah...mcgrgeor made numerous racist comments during the week about him and his father, tried to kick him at the weigh ins and smashed up a bus trying to fight him and had one of his cronies trash talking outside the cage


Ah yeah knew about those but I mean during or just before the match, just that was such a reaction from Khabib!


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## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> How on earth does this help the UFC....their golden ticket just got destroyed and the champion is about to have a huge suspension and probably stripped of his title with a bunch of bad press.....more than likely mcgrgeor retires now anyway. Anyway why would their be a rematch he easily lost heck mcgrgeor got dropped by a wrestler and he's the one who's meant to be a world class boxer




Nope, there will be 'an in-depth enquiry' with 'lessons learnt', people will be sanctioned but there's always someone coming up to take the place of whoever gets dropped. The UFC pays people to spin, remember too the old adage 'there's no such thing as bad publicity'. Oil companies survive massive spills with environmental damage, governments survive despite their ineptitude, the UFC isn't inept and MMA is only a sport, they have their lawyers and spin doctors busy working now. Give it a few weeks and all will be business as usual. 'Golden tickets' come and they go, always more where they come from, plenty of young guns who will fill the slot. Watch out for the 'next big thing'. It doesn't actually matter who wins fights, it just matters that fights sell tickets.  UFC turned WWE.


----------



## Headhunter

_Simon_ said:


> Ah yeah knew about those but I mean during or just before the match, just that was such a reaction from Khabib!


There's only so far you can push people


----------



## _Simon_

Headhunter said:


> There's only so far you can push people


Ah yeah for sure, ah I heard that apparently Connor actually threw the first punch at Khabib's cornerman, which is why it all started. But yeah craziness...


----------



## Headhunter

_Simon_ said:


> Ah yeah for sure, ah I heard that apparently Connor actually threw the first punch at Khabib's cornerman, which is why it all started. But yeah craziness...


He'd already gone over the fence before that but yes mcgrgeor did throw a punch first. There was a video but conveniently been taken down now


----------



## drop bear

Connor shot first.


----------



## drop bear

I like a little biff madness in my sport. And Connors corner deserved to have kabib go after them.

I have always watched sports that have had fights. Played sports that have had fights  I mean rugby is famous for it.


----------



## Danny T

Tez3 said:


> "What the average fan don't understand is it's showbusiness as well as a fight. Think how big a rematch could be."
> 
> and the winner is...…….. the UFC.


^^^^^^ This!
It happens because the UFC Allows it! It is allowed because it sells.


----------



## JR 137

Danny T said:


> ^^^^^^ This!
> It happens because the UFC Allows it! It is allowed because it sells.


I’m sure the powers that be have already sat down and analyzed a cost-to-benefit ratio of all the possibilities - suspensions, lifetime bans, doing nothing, and anything else. Any decisions they make will be driven by maximum revenue, short term and long term.

If they think more people will watch, they’ll issue some slaps on the wrist and laugh all the way to the bank. If they think they’ll alienate enough paying people by allowing this and the precedent that’ll send, they’ll hand out lifetime bans while laughing all the way to the bank. They’ll calculate what makes the most money AND looks the best and will come up with what they think is the best financial decision here. Trust me, a multimillion dollar business isn’t stupid. They’ve got the money to pay the best people in the business at this stuff.

I wonder if either of them have a record about to drop. Remember Ron Artest?


----------



## Hanzou

I have no doubt that plans are already being made for Conor/Khabib 2 with Khabib's fence hopping being a major part of the promotional material.


----------



## CB Jones

on a side note Derrick Lewis might have had the best post fight reaction.....lol.








Uncensored version


----------



## Xue Sheng

Glad McGregor lost, not happy about the after fight fight from Khabib...but hey Vladimir Putin called and congratulated him


----------



## Headhunter

Why would people want a rematch it'll be exactly the same. McGregors grappling has been bad his whole career yet done nothing about it. He doesn't deserve a title shot he's 2-2 in his last 4 got easily dominated in every area including his speciality. One thing the fight proves is mayweather carried him. I mean if khabib can drop him that easily mayweather would've finished in the first round if he wanted to


----------



## Headhunter

Xue Sheng said:


> Glad McGregor lost, not happy about the after fight fight from Khabib...but hey Vladimir Putin called and congratulated him


Normally I'd be against those actions from khabib but what goes around comes at the end of the day


----------



## CB Jones

Headhunter said:


> Why would people want a rematch it'll be exactly the same. McGregors grappling has been bad his whole career yet done nothing about it. He doesn't deserve a title shot he's 2-2 in his last 4 got easily dominated in every area including his speciality. One thing the fight proves is mayweather carried him. I mean if khabib can drop him that easily mayweather would've finished in the first round if he wanted to



Agree....no way Conor beats Khabib.

I do want to see Tony Ferguson v Conor though.

That would be a fun fight.


----------



## Headhunter

I think mcgrgeor retires now anyway. He now knows he can't call himself a double champion at all. His reputation as a fighter has taken a huge hit by getting dominated on his feet by a wrestler and he quit basically. I have no issue with tapping when your done but he didn't even try to fight the submission he tapped Almost as soon as it went on just like against Diaz. He's raised his stupid games aren't working as well anymore and people aren't going to be as intimidated by his mouth. He's lost 2 of his last 4 and the top of the lightweight all gives him trouble in my opinion he won't want to go on a full losing streak so I think he retires now


----------



## TMA17

I was glad to see Khabib win.  Despite his behavior after the fight, he handles himself in a more respectable manner overall than McGregor.  Some people like the **** talkers and that certainly is good for the business side of the equation.  

On another note, look at how important grappling is, especially wrestling in MMA.  Khabib just destroys people.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

I don't think we can put either Khabib or Conner in the position of respectful.  What happened last night was disgraceful especially by Khabib because he went over the fence first and started the brawl. I expect Khabib to get a slap on the hand, nothing will happen to McGregor but the entourage that jumped the fence and came into the Octagon will get the book thrown at them and really pay the price.  That is what I would expect.  That and McGregor and Nuragamedov 2 in the near future.


----------



## Buka

I don’t think any rematch is sellable. I don’t thing Khabib gets a license to fight in Nevada again.

I enjoyed the entertainment of the train wreck for a couple of minutes. Could care less if I see either jerk again.


----------



## Tez3

Buka said:


> Could care less if I see either jerk again.



So you do care.

I spotted John Kavanagh when it all kicked off in front of him, he was sat on the apron of the cage, just watching. Good lad. He did say that McGregor wouldn't be retiring though.


----------



## JR 137

TMA17 said:


> Some people like the **** talkers and that certainly is good for the business side of the equation.


There’s a huge difference between talking and doing. And especially when innocent bystanders are involved and at risk. I’m not talking about the people Khabib directly went after, I’m talking about the people sitting next to him. I’m sure they didn’t deserve all the physical activity they were subjected to.

The whole thing’s an absolute disgrace. I don’t think there’s words strong enough to describe how disgraceful the whole thing is. Doesn’t matter who started what and how nor who retaliated and how. And it’s quite obvious Khabib’s actions were premeditated.

My opinions don’t matter in the whole grand scheme of things because I’ve never ordered UFC PPV nor will I. This has nothing to do with that. I have zero interest in it.


----------



## Tez3

JR 137 said:


> My opinions don’t matter in the whole grand scheme of things because I’ve never ordered UFC PPV




I've never paid to watch any UFC. it's free on one of the channels we have here.

You are correct though in your summation though, however the UFC is a business and as the first punch was thrown outside the cage someone from the company would be already thinking about damage limitation and how they can profit from it the incident. It's what most companies do. A fighter here who fought in the UFC said that Dan's disapproval only ever lasts a fortnight 

One interesting thing I've heard said is that if Khabib has his purse confiscated it's likely Putin will pay it instead. A good many are actually blaming the UFC, any risk assessment done would have highlighted problems of just this type.


----------



## Martial D

Headhunter said:


> He'd already gone over the fence before that but yes mcgrgeor did throw a punch first. There was a video but conveniently been taken down now


Well, after the commission reviewed the evidence they found Conor did nothing wrong, while kabob had his purse withheld.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Martial D said:


> Well, after the commission reviewed the evidence they found Conor did nothing wrong, while kabob had his purse withheld.


Your autocorrect is not politically correct.


----------



## _Simon_

Martial D said:


> Well, after the commission reviewed the evidence they found Conor did nothing wrong, while kabob had his purse withheld.





gpseymour said:


> Your autocorrect is not politically correct.


Shish!



XD


----------



## drop bear

JR 137 said:


> There’s a huge difference between talking and doing. And especially when innocent bystanders are involved and at risk. I’m not talking about the people Khabib directly went after, I’m talking about the people sitting next to him. I’m sure they didn’t deserve all the physical activity they were subjected to.
> 
> The whole thing’s an absolute disgrace. I don’t think there’s words strong enough to describe how disgraceful the whole thing is. Doesn’t matter who started what and how nor who retaliated and how. And it’s quite obvious Khabib’s actions were premeditated.
> 
> My opinions don’t matter in the whole grand scheme of things because I’ve never ordered UFC PPV nor will I. This has nothing to do with that. I have zero interest in it.



Yeah. Those poor guys in the crowd who got to see kabib bash a dude from a foot away.


----------



## JR 137

drop bear said:


> Yeah. Those poor guys in the crowd who got to see kabib bash a dude from a foot away.


The ones who got pushed and shoved out of the way. The ones who got forced in the middle of something they weren’t looking for. Kinda like when a brawl breaks out in the bar and a bunch of unassociated people around it get thrown around.


----------



## Headhunter

Martial D said:


> Well, after the commission reviewed the evidence they found Conor did nothing wrong, while kabob had his purse withheld.


Yeah like I said by coincidence the video was deleted. Funny that right


----------



## Martial D

Headhunter said:


> Yeah like I said by coincidence the video was deleted. Funny that right


Naw, it wasn't lost. It's everywhere.


----------



## Hanzou

Just watched the entire fight, and yeah McGregor got dominated, especially on the ground. I think in one round it was 60 vs 3 significant punches in Khabib's favor. By Round 4, McGregor looked like he had been through the meat grinder.


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.




Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.


----------



## drop bear

So what the disconnect seems to be is people thought kabib didn't mean what he said for the months leading up because Connor didn't mean what he said.

So Connor got warned. His corner got warned. And they still pushed.

And everyone was surprised kabib actually backed his statements up. 

For some people words mean something. And I think there is honor in that.


----------



## Headhunter

drop bear said:


> So what the disconnect seems to be is people thought kabib didn't mean what he said for the months leading up because Connor didn't mean what he said.
> 
> So Connor got warned. His corner got warned. And they still pushed.
> 
> And everyone was surprised kabib actually backed his statements up.
> 
> For some people words mean something. And I think there is honor in that.


Well no it's honour it's stupid. Yes mcgrgeor started it all and him and his yes men deserved what they got but doesn't make what happened any less dumb. Both acted like total idiots and both should be punished for their actions. All he did was ruin what should've been the biggest night of his life. Now everyone's talking about that stupid brawl instead of the fact mcgrgeor got his **** handed to him for 4 rounds so they're talking about that instead of how good khabib is. So yeah total idiotic move best thing he should've done was get his hand raised get the belt put on him and rub it in mcgrgeors face and maybe trash talk him in the interview that would've been the perfect ending


----------



## Tony Dismukes

drop bear said:


> So what the disconnect seems to be is people thought kabib didn't mean what he said for the months leading up because Connor didn't mean what he said.
> 
> So Connor got warned. His corner got warned. And they still pushed.
> 
> And everyone was surprised kabib actually backed his statements up.
> 
> For some people words mean something. And I think there is honor in that.


I haven't kept up with all the pre-fight trash talk. Did Khabib say that after the fight he was going to assault one of Conor's teammates outside the cage or that his teammates were going to gang up to jump Conor while he was waiting for the announcement of the winner?

I've got a lot of admiration for Conor and Khabib in terms of their martial skills. As people? Not so much.


----------



## drop bear

Headhunter said:


> Well no it's honour it's stupid. Yes mcgrgeor started it all and him and his yes men deserved what they got but doesn't make what happened any less dumb. Both acted like total idiots and both should be punished for their actions. All he did was ruin what should've been the biggest night of his life. Now everyone's talking about that stupid brawl instead of the fact mcgrgeor got his **** handed to him for 4 rounds so they're talking about that instead of how good khabib is. So yeah total idiotic move best thing he should've done was get his hand raised get the belt put on him and rub it in mcgrgeors face and maybe trash talk him in the interview that would've been the perfect ending



I like to think kabib is out there somewhere still beating up people who were mean to him

You just keep flying like an eagle kabib.


----------



## Headhunter

Tony Dismukes said:


> I haven't kept up with all the pre-fight trash talk. Did Khabib say that after the fight he was going to assault one of Conor's teammates outside the cage or that his teammates were going to gang up to jump Conor while he was waiting for the announcement of the winner?
> 
> I've got a lot of admiration for Conor and Khabib in terms of their martial skills. As people? Not so much.


There's only so far people can be pushed sometimes. He insured khabibs religion and his family and his country. I'm not saying what he did was right it wasn't. It was completely stupid but at the end of the day mcgrgeor started using physical violence so he can't be surprised when he gets it back.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tony Dismukes said:


> Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.


My first reaction: Rener and Ryron aren't as young as they used to be. Am I gloating? Maybe just a bit. 

I like their focus. They talk effectiveness, but don't leave character out of it. That's my kind of martial artist.


----------



## Headhunter

I think security messed up as well. As soon as khabib started off yelling at the guy they should've had all the commission on him keeping him away not just one guy. Then when it went really mad they should've locked down the cage closed off the doors got security around the fence to stop them jumping in. It was a mess the cage doors were wide open so anyone could run in. Seems like though they had the security none of them were actually prepared for a situation


----------



## drop bear

Tony Dismukes said:


> I haven't kept up with all the pre-fight trash talk. Did Khabib say that after the fight he was going to assault one of Conor's teammates outside the cage or that his teammates were going to gang up to jump Conor while he was waiting for the announcement of the winner?
> 
> I've got a lot of admiration for Conor and Khabib in terms of their martial skills. As people? Not so much.



Connor shot first on the team mates.


----------



## TMA17

"When someone incessantly insults your family, your country, your religion, commits violence against you and threatens to kill you, it's your duty to respond". - Khabib

He should not have done what he did, especially one of Khabib's guys that sucker punched McGregor, but everyone has their limit.


----------



## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> "When someone incessantly insults your family, your country, your religion, commits violence against you and threatens to kill you, it's your duty to respond". - Khabib
> 
> He should not have done what he did, especially one of Khabib's guys that sucker punched McGregor, but everyone has their limit.


McGregor punched first then another one saw it and jumped in from behind. Mcgrgeor started that part of it


----------



## Headhunter

Another thing that's not being said is mcgrgeor hit him with an illegal knee while they were on the ground


----------



## TMA17

McGregor got away with some illegal things.  What Khabib did was wrong, but McGregor fueled the entire thing starting with the bus incident.  The entire thing is a mess and really bad for the sport.


----------



## Tez3

Headline in a British newspaper this morning. … "It's brawl over for McGregor as victorious Russian take the fighting outside the cage"
Groan. 

Any better puns?


----------



## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> McGregor got away with some illegal things.  What Khabib did was wrong, but McGregor fueled the entire thing starting with the bus incident.  The entire thing is a mess and really bad for the sport.


McGregor turned the sport into a joke, now everyone's looking to get fights the don't deserve by talking trash, everyone's demanding rematches after knocked out in the first round. Best thing for Mma would be McGregor retiring. In the 2 years he was gone it was getting back to the more professional ways now it's just an embarrassment again


----------



## drop bear




----------



## TMA17

“I hope they’re lenient on him [Khabib], not just so we can get a rematch,” John Kavanagh told Joe Rogan on the show. “I love watching him fight.”

“I can stretch myself to understand his reaction… He jumped over the cage, it’s not the end of the world”


----------



## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> McGregor turned the sport into a joke, now everyone's looking to get fights the don't deserve by talking trash, everyone's demanding rematches after knocked out in the first round. Best thing for Mma would be McGregor retiring. In the 2 years he was gone it was getting back to the more professional ways now it's just an embarrassment again



I think you may be getting over excited by this. Your hyperbole level is rising dangerously. 
The UFC may be the biggest thing to happen to MMA but it's necessarily the best thing.







TMA17 said:


> “I hope they’re lenient on him [Khabib], not just so we can get a rematch,” John Kavanagh told Joe Rogan on the show. “I love watching him fight.”
> 
> “I can stretch myself to understand his reaction… He jumped over the cage, it’s not the end of the world”



Not much upsets John.


----------



## Headhunter

TMA17 said:


> “I hope they’re lenient on him [Khabib], not just so we can get a rematch,” John Kavanagh told Joe Rogan on the show. “I love watching him fight.”
> 
> “I can stretch myself to understand his reaction… He jumped over the cage, it’s not the end of the world”


Yeah he probably even knows both mcgrgeor whoever the other guy is deserved it


----------



## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> Yeah he probably even knows both mcgrgeor whoever the other guy is deserved it



He knows what it's worth to the UFC, you watch there will be publicity phots of Khabib climbing over the cage for his next fight. Dana will pay his lawyers fees so he can keep his visa and they will hype up his next fight as a sort of 'redemption' fight, it could even be against Conor 

No point getting upset about it all, it's isn't real, the uninformed 'fans' like a back story ( conditioned by WWE) they love all the aggro, they arguments about it and while people keep giving them publicity ( ie by arguing on social media etc) the UFC are watching the money roll in. They can see the tickets been sold already for whatever fights these two have. We'll have all the faux apologies, must do betters and beating of breasts but it's business, and for them, it's good business.


----------



## _Simon_

Tez3 said:


> Headline in a British newspaper this morning. … "It's brawl over for McGregor as victorious Russian take the fighting outside the cage"
> Groan.
> 
> Any better puns?


I just cannot turn down a good pun.... (or a BAD pun for that matter....) XD


----------



## _Simon_

drop bear said:


> I like to think kabib is out there somewhere still beating up people who were mean to him
> 
> You just keep flying like an eagle kabib.
> View attachment 21818


...... had a good chuckle XD


----------



## Hanzou

What's the point of a rematch? The fight wasn't even close....


----------



## _Simon_

Tony Dismukes said:


> Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.


Didn't watch the whole vid, but yeah I was raised (so to speak) and trained only in traditional martial arts (with dojo kun and precepts etc). I used to watch UFC ppv events with my cousin as I loved seeing the martial technique and watching the skill. But more and more they just highlighting the trash talk and disrespect etc, and it just turned me off. And some people watch it for that and fair enough that's cool, but not my gig. Of course that wasn't for every fight, but the animosity etc turned it into a whole other ball game which I wasn't interested in.


----------



## Tez3

_Simon_ said:


> Didn't watch the whole vid, but yeah I was raised (so to speak) and trained only in traditional martial arts (with dojo kun and precepts etc). I used to watch UFC ppv events with my cousin as I loved seeing the martial technique and watching the skill. But more and more they just highlighting the trash talk and disrespect etc, and it just turned me off. And some people watch it for that and fair enough that's cool, but not my gig. Of course that wasn't for every fight, but the animosity etc turned it into a whole other ball game which I wasn't interested in.




Grassroots MMA is still martial arts and not show business, watch local shows with local fighters. I get a lot of grief off some here when I point out that MMA is the sport and UFC is the company but it's true, the UFC is all about making money, not that that's bad, but often standards go out of the window and it becomes just all about the money. The actual sport comes second, the morals and standards go out of the window.
smaller promotions run by people who know and love MMA are still good value, still keep the ethos of martial arts, support them and regard the UFC as just what it is. Goodness knows there's a lot, lot worse becoming acceptable at the moment, it should come as no surprise that bad sportsmanship is now acceptable too.


----------



## _Simon_

Tez3 said:


> Grassroots MMA is still martial arts and not show business, watch local shows with local fighters. I get a lot of grief off some here when I point out that MMA is the sport and UFC is the company but it's true, the UFC is all about making money, not that that's bad, but often standards go out of the window and it becomes just all about the money. The actual sport comes second, the morals and standards go out of the window.
> smaller promotions run by people who know and love MMA are still good value, still keep the ethos of martial arts, support them and regard the UFC as just what it is. Goodness knows there's a lot, lot worse becoming acceptable at the moment, it should come as no surprise that bad sportsmanship is now acceptable too.


Yeah I remember you saying that the MMA stuff you've been involved in is very different to alot of companys which run MMA events. But yeah like many things, companys take all sort of sports and guides a certain direction for them. Ah wellz


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Master Ken also has thoughts:


----------



## Tez3

Conor McGregor vs Khabib is not the first good fight to go bad


----------



## _Simon_

Tony Dismukes said:


> Master Ken also has thoughts:


Hahahaha.. that was classic...


----------



## jobo

Hanzou said:


> What's the point of a rematch? The fight wasn't even close....





Hanzou said:


> What's the point of a rematch? The fight wasn't even close....


Well $$$$$$$$$$,  i guess, outside of their captive audience of violence fantasists and wWe moulth breather, the uFc a very limited number of fighter that the general public have heard of, that was just conner, now thanks to all the controversial  actions, its conner AND khabib, to not have a bad blood rematch that would get the pay for view tills clanking would just be flushing money down the toilet

Perhaps conner should have a few warm up fights first, then it may not be so depressingly one sided, im glad i didnt actually pay anything to watch that, getting up at 5 am was bad enough


----------



## macher

TMA17 said:


> I was glad to see Khabib win.  Despite his behavior after the fight, he handles himself in a more respectable manner overall than McGregor.  Some people like the **** talkers and that certainly is good for the business side of the equation.
> 
> On another note, look at how important grappling is, especially wrestling in MMA.  Khabib just destroys people.



IMO a good grappler will best a striker.


----------



## Tez3

macher said:


> IMO a good grappler will best a striker.




The matching for the big promotions should be two opponents with really good skills in everything, makes for an exciting fight with tactics coming into play. However the UFC's aim is to make money so it's the fighters who are the most controversial/hated/loved etc that are matched. 
People don't seem to watch the UFC to watch good techniques etc they come to watch 'their guy' win and the guy they love to hate lose. Just like WWE but with real strikes.


----------



## _Simon_

Tez3 said:


> The matching for the big promotions should be two opponents with really good skills in everything, makes for an exciting fight with tactics coming into play. However the UFC's aim is to make money so it's the fighters who are the most controversial/hated/loved etc that are matched.
> People don't seem to watch the UFC to watch good techniques etc they come to watch 'their guy' win and the guy they love to hate lose. Just like WWE but with real strikes.



Hey! WWE is real! Shoulda seen a few weeks ago... Samoa Joe did his rear naked choke on AJ Styles, and AJ Styles tapped out viciously, wowza that must've hurt! BUT AJ was pinning Joe at the SAME TIME! So it was VERY controversial, as it was... "1... 2.... (AJ taps out).. 3!!!" But the referee didn't see him tap out......


----------



## Headhunter

macher said:


> IMO a good grappler will best a striker.


Depends on the grappler and depends on the striker


----------



## JR 137

_Simon_ said:


> Hey! WWE is real! Shoulda seen a few weeks ago... Samoa Joe did his rear naked choke on AJ Styles, and AJ Styles tapped out viciously, wowza that must've hurt! BUT AJ was pinning Joe at the SAME TIME! So it was VERY controversial, as it was... "1... 2.... (AJ taps out).. 3!!!" But the referee didn't see him tap out......


I was way more angry when I found out the WWF was fake than I was when I found out about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, et al. Not even close.


----------



## Tez3

JR 137 said:


> I was way more angry when I found out the WWF was fake than I was when I found out about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, et al. Not even close.



 The World Wildlife Fund is pretty real, does a good job too. Been going since 1961.
WWF - Endangered Species Conservation | World Wildlife Fund


----------



## JR 137

Tez3 said:


> The World Wildlife Fund is pretty real, does a good job too. Been going since 1961.
> WWF - Endangered Species Conservation | World Wildlife Fund


Yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re the “other” WWF to me. Their work wasn’t anywhere near as important to 8 year old me as Hulk Hogan, Iron Sheik, et al.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Tony Dismukes said:


> Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.



I luv how BJJ perpetually concludes it's superiority as a martial art, by using MMA examples where the striking is mediocre to horrible.  And please, stop quoting Royce Gracie's 'success.'  Matt Hughes, a wrestler, flattened him like a pancake.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Tony Dismukes said:


> Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.
> _[vid omitted]_
> Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.



There has been so much faulting of TMA by the MMA business machine... the competitors & coaches of course on board.  If TMA striking is so wanting, why don't they suit up in karate gi's and show us so in another venue.

*あまりに美しく、強烈で、感動的な空手大会の映像 2018Karate Tournament JKA*
336,111 views








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Published on Jun 4, 2018

SUBSCRIBE 117K
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MMA buffs can skip all that 'performance art' and  go to the 2nd half.


----------



## Tez3

JR 137 said:


> 8 year old me



8? flipping heck you're younger than my son!


----------



## _Simon_

JR 137 said:


> I was way more angry when I found out the WWF was fake than I was when I found out about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, et al. Not even close.


Yep, totally understandable!





JR 137 said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re the “other” WWF to me. Their work wasn’t anywhere near as important to 8 year old me as Hulk Hogan, Iron Sheik, et al.


Haha too right!


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## TMA17

The UFC has lost a lot of my interest over the years.  Styles make fights and this fight was of greater interest to me due to the grappler vs striker element.


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## drop bear

TMA17 said:


> The UFC has lost a lot of my interest over the years.  Styles make fights and this fight was of greater interest to me due to the grappler vs striker element.



You still see it. You just see this little snippets.


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## Tez3

TMA17 said:


> The UFC has lost a lot of my interest over the years.  Styles make fights and this fight was of greater interest to me due to the grappler vs striker element.



The interest is in the matchmaking. The point of MMA fights is that they are between two MMA fighters who can use all techniques. The fighters make the fights, the 'physical chess' game played between them. their ability to switch to ground or striking not one or the other, they should also be able to strike on the ground and grapple standing. So they should be equally good at stand up and groundwork, if they aren't they're not MMA fighters. Pitching a striker versus a grappler isn't MMA, it's old fashioned UFC and frankly boring.


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## Headhunter

Nor related to this thread but interesting seen this on twitter. Would be w big thing for British Mma 

Harry Williams on Twitter


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## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> Nor related to this thread but interesting seen this on twitter. Would be w big thing for British Mma
> 
> Harry Williams on Twitter




How do you work out that it would be a 'big thing' ie 'good' for UK MMA? It's very sad news if true.


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## Headhunter

Tez3 said:


> How do you work out that it would be a 'big thing' ie 'good' for UK MMA? It's very sad news if true.


No I said big as in big


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## Buka

Tony Dismukes said:


> Rener and Ryron have thoughts on the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Towards the end they express some opinions on the value of TMA vs MMA.



I could listen to those kids all day.


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## TMA17

Tez3 said:


> The interest is in the matchmaking. The point of MMA fights is that they are between two MMA fighters who can use all techniques. The fighters make the fights, the 'physical chess' game played between them. their ability to switch to ground or striking not one or the other, they should also be able to strike on the ground and grapple standing. So they should be equally good at stand up and groundwork, if they aren't they're not MMA fighters. Pitching a striker versus a grappler isn't MMA, it's old fashioned UFC and frankly boring.



You are right, and you can't be in the UFC if you don't know both at a pretty high level.  In this particular fight though, it was a extremely high level grappler with subpar striking vs a very good striker and subpar grappler.  So it had that dynamic which was a draw.


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## Tez3

TMA17 said:


> You are right, and you can't be in the UFC if you don't know both at a pretty high level.  In this particular fight though, it was a extremely high level grappler with subpar striking vs a very good striker and subpar grappler.  So it had that dynamic which was a draw.




I don't think it was particularly their fighting skills which was the draw rather the circus that surrounded them.


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## marques

macher said:


> IMO a good grappler will best a striker.


Maia vs Silva. 

But I tend to agree. Wrestling is central in MMA, either to go to the ground or to avoid it.


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## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> No I said big as in big




Not really, they haven't been relevant for a while but it's always sad to see people go out of business. CW has always been the promotion that people go on to go further.


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## ShotoNoob

marques said:


> Maia vs Silva.
> 
> But I tend to agree. Wrestling is central in MMA, either to go to the ground or to avoid it.




We never got to see Maia versus Stephen Thompson.


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## Tony Dismukes

ShotoNoob said:


> I luv how BJJ perpetually concludes it's superiority as a martial art, by using MMA examples where the striking is mediocre to horrible.  And please, stop quoting Royce Gracie's 'success.'  Matt Hughes, a wrestler, flattened him like a pancake.


If you're talking about the video I linked, it's talking about Conor vs Khabib. The idea that Conor McGregor's striking is "mediocre to horrible" is laughable. If you're going to bring Royce Gracie into it, he managed to defeat Gerard Gordeau (world champion Savate, 8x Dutch Kyokushin karate champion) and Art Jimmerson (was 29-5 as a pro boxer at the time of their match).



ShotoNoob said:


> There has been so much faulting of TMA by the MMA business machine... the competitors & coaches of course on board. If TMA striking is so wanting, why don't they suit up in karate gi's and show us so in another venue.


Did you actually watch the video you were replying to? Rener and Ryron weren't trashing TMA. They were talking about its virtues in developing character. They explicitly said that if you have to choose between taking your kid to a MMA gym which doesn't promote good character and a more classic martial arts gym which does teach good character (karate, TKD, or whatever), sign them up for the latter (regardless of their relative strengths in the fighting skills department).

BTW - Rener and Ryron would probably regard BJJ as a TMA, so they wouldn't buy in to the BJJ vs MMA dichotomy.


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## ShotoNoob

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you're talking about the video I linked, it's talking about Conor vs Khabib.


Yes.  The YT Video hosted by Rener & Ryron.



Tony Dismukes said:


> The idea that Conor McGregor's striking is "mediocre to horrible" is laughable.



Well, with the advent of MMA, especially the early UFC, there has been this "idea," as you call it, that MMA somehow sets the standard for realistic martial arts.  MMA, though is fraught with certain practices, and draws a certain type of individual into its' sports competition / media business.  Frankly, IMO the striking by the vast majority is mediocre to horrible, as a group.

Conor McGregor has certainly enjoyed great competitive MMA success.  That you would find a challenge of his striking skill laughable, hankers back to my statement just above.  Should you follow some of the travails of the MMA competitors, which you intimate that you do, you'll find Conor's last victim Eddie Alvarez was hailed by the MMA community has having great boxing.  Destroyed by Conor.  Before that, there was super Muay Thai striker and long-time UFC Champion Jose Aldo also hailed as the best striker of all time.  Destroyed by Conor.  Then we had tough guy, Chad Mendes, an excellent wrestler and power hitter, destroyed by Conor.

My point Tony, is MMA has a certain character & quality of martial art participants.  However, that standard is determined by the particular participants who like and are geared to such sport type fighting and so influenced by that.  My illustration with Conor's recent successes are meant to also show that that standard has been a moving one, prior "standards" of top martial arts replaced once new talent comes along.

Traditional martial arts rises above of that relative bias by setting forth a curriculum and training regimen developed by any number of master's in depth study over very long period's of time, of what makes martial arts, martial arts and hence produced a uniform standard which transcends individual styles.  More sport oriented styles typified by boxing have also done a similar study; hence here we have the "sweet science."  In tune with your grappling leanings, perhaps Khabib's Sambo art makes a fine example there.

This debate about TMA vs. MMA goes on & on and makes for great forum fodder.  The answer is found by examining the underlying fundamentals of each / any art and going from there.  Serious study and practice.  We see that process with Simon's recent tournament participation, and his notation of his progresses & setbacks.  He prevailed over some much senior ranks, didn't he?


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## Headhunter

ShotoNoob said:


> Yes.  The YT Video hosted by Rener & Ryron.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, with the advent of MMA, especially the early UFC, there has been this "idea," as you call it, that MMA somehow sets the standard for realistic martial arts.  MMA, though is fraught with certain practices, and draws a certain type of individual into its' sports competition / media business.  Frankly, IMO the striking by the vast majority is mediocre to horrible, as a group.
> 
> Conor McGregor has certainly enjoyed great competitive MMA success.  That you would find a challenge of his striking skill laughable, hankers back to my statement just above.  Should you follow some of the travails of the MMA competitors, which you intimate that you do, you'll find Conor's last victim Eddie Alvarez was hailed by the MMA community has having great boxing.  Destroyed by Conor.  Before that, there was super Muay Thai striker and long-time UFC Champion Jose Aldo also hailed as the best striker of all time.  Destroyed by Conor.  Then we had tough guy, Chad Mendes, an excellent wrestler and power hitter, destroyed by Conor.
> 
> My point Tony, is MMA has a certain character & quality of martial art participants.  However, that standard is determined by the particular participants who like and are geared to such sport type fighting and so influenced by that.  My illustration with Conor's recent successes are meant to also show that that standard has been a moving one, prior "standards" of top martial arts replaced once new talent comes along.
> 
> Traditional martial arts rises above of that relative bias by setting forth a curriculum and training regimen developed by any number of master's in depth study over very long period's of time, of what makes martial arts, martial arts and hence produced a uniform standard which transcends individual styles.  More sport oriented styles typified by boxing have also done a similar study; hence here we have the "sweet science."  In tune with your grappling leanings, perhaps Khabib's Sambo art makes a fine example there.
> 
> This debate about TMA vs. MMA goes on & on and makes for great forum fodder.  The answer is found by examining the underlying fundamentals of each / any art and going from there.  Serious study and practice.  We see that process with Simon's recent tournament participation, and his notation of his progresses & setbacks.  He prevailed over some much senior ranks, didn't he?


Just stop buddy, I'm not the biggest fan of some aspects of Mma but saying it only attracts certain is just ignorant.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you're talking about the video I linked, it's talking about Conor vs Khabib. The idea that Conor McGregor's striking is "mediocre to horrible" is laughable.



Tony, you really covered a lot of ground with your Gracie BJJ post-fight breakdown.  These contests are always fascinating to see how the competitive forces all play out.  I would certainly concur that MMA with it's full contact and breadth of stylistic competitors makes for a superb laboratory for martial artists to test one's skills.  But again, I feel we have to qualify that standard by the venue's environment and the specific population of participants.



Tony Dismukes said:


> If you're going to bring Royce Gracie into it, he managed to defeat Gerard Gordeau (world champion Savate, 8x Dutch Kyokushin karate champion) and Art Jimmerson (was 29-5 as a pro boxer at the time of their match).



I deliberately brought Royce Gracie into it.  IMO, Royce & BJJ were over-hyped and their UFC beginnings track record promotional as much as martial  MMA remains with that characteristic today.  UFC match makers decide who fights and who doesn't and whom.  The Gracie's original promo vids versus "strikers" were entirely laughable.

As a martial art, I also believe Gracie BJJ has an excellent design and is very pragmatic compared to say the more traditional grappling art of say Judo, upon which BJJ is based.  The Gracie's brought a lot of innovation to some of the then practices of Judo.  BJJ I feel also suits the more physically-oriented MMA competitors which we see in that venue.

In terms of striking effectiveness, Gracie BJJ and now a resurgence in wrestling have shown how ill prepared many strikers are for a grappling attack or tactic.  The key work in my mind, however, is PREPARATION.  Although the style was striking, we see just in Simon's recent tournament how he was unprepared for certain tactics, as were his more senior opponents since since Simon took the medals.

In terms of the Gerard Gordeau's, the Art Jimmerson's, we can look to these past champions as standards.  But, they are not absolutes and are limited and suffer from the same qualifications that I posed about MMA.  Traditional martial arts examples can be equally as fallible because people are fallible.  Pointing to some role model, however appealing, is inescapably subjective.

I myself do no focus on some kick boxing champion or TMA master.  The art is my standard and my instructors are my guide, they too like me, are fallible.  I note that Martin Kampman who was a karate / kick-boxing champion and head striking coach for the MMA  school Team, Alpha Male, got devastatingly KO'd by Jony Hendricks, a wrestler, after which I think Martin retired.  So just citing some names doesn't really inspire me at all.  I look to the standards represented by instructors.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Headhunter said:


> Just stop buddy, I'm not the biggest fan of some aspects of Mma but saying it only attracts certain is just ignorant.



ONLY is not what I said.  There is a definite difference as a generality, IMO. And if you disagree, disagree with an explanation.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Tony Dismukes said:


> Did you actually watch the video you were replying to? Rener and Ryron weren't trashing TMA. They were talking about its virtues in developing character. They explicitly said that if you have to choose between taking your kid to a MMA gym which doesn't promote good character and a more classic martial arts gym which does teach good character (karate, TKD, or whatever), sign them up for the latter (regardless of their relative strengths in the fighting skills department).



All makes sense to me.  The virtue aspect is a separate issue from the effectiveness aspect.  The first is morality, the second is technical.  All sports let's start with wrestling, presume to promote sportsmanship.  I think we're on the same wavelength there.



Tony Dismukes said:


> BTW - Rener and Ryron would probably regard BJJ as a TMA, so they wouldn't buy in to the BJJ vs MMA dichotomy.



That's a very good question, and which has been raised with Judo versus say the Ju Jitsu's Judo was developed from.  I think the only way to pragmatically address that is to look at how the practitioner approaches the art.  I'm already stirring up the native interest groups, so I'll pause there.

For illustration though, I would call wrestling more of a sport method which relies on physical ability, strength and so on.  I would place BJJ more to the TMA side compared to wrestling because there are more tactical considerations, and more technicals to support that.  BJJ is more martial in applications, with submissions including the joint locks, chokes, holds, versus sport wrestling which is pinning the opponent to the ground.


----------



## Headhunter

ShotoNoob said:


> ONLY is not what I said.  There is a definite difference as a generality, IMO. And if you disagree, disagree with an explanation.


Pretty much every single fighter in Mma has come from traditional martial arts it's all just a name


----------



## Buka

I haven't seen the original Gracie promo vids in a long time. I'll have to dig them up, I really liked them.

And I think they had a positive influence in striking schools across the country.


----------



## Tez3

Headhunter said:


> Pretty much every single fighter in Mma has come from traditional martial arts it's all just a name




As well as all the techniques and styles being TMA! I'm not sure what some people think the martial arts in MMA are actually from! 
when asked by people who don't know what it is I usually give a simple answer ...… it's all the martial arts you find in the Olympics only they are all done in the same match, Judo, wrestling, boxing and TKD. It's a simplistic answer of course but it does explain it to those who don't know anything especially the ones who tend to call it 'human cock fighting'.


----------



## _Simon_

ShotoNoob said:


> This debate about TMA vs. MMA goes on & on and makes for great forum fodder.  The answer is found by examining the underlying fundamentals of each / any art and going from there.  Serious study and practice.  We see that process with Simon's recent tournament participation, and his notation of his progresses & setbacks.  He prevailed over some much senior ranks, didn't he?
> 
> ...
> 
> Although the style was striking, we see just in Simon's recent tournament how he was unprepared for certain tactics, as were his more senior opponents since since Simon took the medals.



Thanks for the shout-out! I'm here every Too-sd'y and Thursd'y nights! Try the veal!


----------



## ShotoNoob

Headhunter said:


> Pretty much every single fighter in Mma has come from traditional martial arts it's all just a name



Okay then, it's all explained.


----------



## ShotoNoob

Buka said:


> I haven't seen the original Gracie promo vids in a long time. I'll have to dig them up, I really liked them.
> 
> And I think they had a positive influence in striking schools across the country.



For the ones who need the wake up call, I'd be afraid for them if it didn't.


----------



## Headhunter

ShotoNoob said:


> Okay then, it's all explained.


Doesn't seem like there's much point explaining things with you


----------



## ShotoNoob

Headhunter said:


> Doesn't seem like there's much point explaining things with you


 I said the same thing about you (to myself).


----------

