# Southern Dragon elements in wing chun



## Jens (Jan 17, 2022)

Oily Daragon said “Wing Chun's grappling potential is in the process of being completely forgotten, because people are learning a distant derivative of Yongchuan Quan, not the underlying Snake, Crane, and Dragon styles at its core, each of which could take up a whole thread by themselves.”

I found what you mentioned above interesting, can you please elaborate more on what you presume “wing chun’s grappling potential” is?


Oily Daragon said “A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane.”

Can you also please elaborate more on what you meant by  “Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun” ?


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## geezer (Jan 17, 2022)

There's a lot of debate among Chinese practitioners and martial arts researchers about the historical origins of Wing Chun beyond the old myths and folklore. 

What was the role of_ Fukien Crane Boxing_? How much of a role did _Hakka boxing_ systems like Southern Mantis, Southern Dragon and Bak Mei play? And Snake style? If so, how did the Cantonese speakers learn form the Hakka when these groups shared much mistrust?  

And, was there contact with other systems in Southeast Asia brought in through trade along the "Silk Road" or boats along the Pearl River? What about the role of revolutionaries and political dissidents leading up to and during the Taiping Rebellion? And what about contact with 19th Century Western bare-knuckle boxers? 

There are so many possibilities. I'm fascinated to hear what knowledgeable people have to contribute ...but distrustful of anyone that thinks they _know_ the whole story!


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 18, 2022)

Jens said:


> Oily Daragon said “Wing Chun's grappling potential is in the process of being completely forgotten, because people are learning a distant derivative of Yongchuan Quan, not the underlying Snake, Crane, and Dragon styles at its core, each of which could take up a whole thread by themselves.”
> 
> I found what you mentioned above interesting, can you please elaborate more on what you presume “wing chun’s grappling potential” is?
> 
> ...


Ok.

Let's start here.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2022)

Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin. 

Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao. Also note, there is a Ip Man Wing Chun school in Beijing (North)


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## wckf92 (Jan 18, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Other than that I have seen a Northern version of Wing Chun (Yǒng chūn quán) that is rather different than the Ip Man version, but I only saw Siu Lum Tao.



Interesting. Do you have any more info on the northern version? Would like to learn more about it. 
Thanks!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> Interesting. Do you have any more info on the northern version? Would like to learn more about it.
> Thanks!



There is a VCD out there, it was sent to me by my inlaws in Beijing and it is all in MAndarin. I will see if I can locate it and give you the name of the guy who is demonstrating it.


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## wckf92 (Jan 18, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> There is a VCD out there, it was sent to me by my inlaws in Beijing and it is all in MAndarin. I will see if I can locate it and give you the name of the guy who is demonstrating it.



That would be great! Thank you!


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## geezer (Jan 18, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
> 咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
> 咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
> So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin.
> ...


_Wang Zhi Peng,_ a student of Wong Shun Leung who was an important student of Yip Man, teaches in Beijing last I heard.

Hey- random thought: What two famous personages were known as _"The Little Dragon"_ in their native tongues?

Answer to follow....


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2022)

geezer said:


> _Wang Zhi Peng,_ a student of Wong Shun Leung who was an important student of Yip Man, teaches in Beijing last I heard.
> 
> Hey- random thought: What two famous personages were known as _"The Little Dragon"_ in their native tongues?
> 
> Answer to follow....



Yeah that's the guy. 

Wasn't one of them Lee Jun fan?


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## geezer (Jan 18, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yeah that's the guy.
> 
> Wasn't one of them Lee Jun fan?


Well see for yourself. Here are their pictures:

Little Dragon 1





Little Dragon 2:


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## Flying Crane (Jan 18, 2022)

geezer said:


> Well see for yourself. Here are their pictures:
> 
> Little Dragon 1
> View attachment 27958
> ...


Ah, Vlad the Impaler.  Or was that just his porn star name?


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## geezer (Jan 18, 2022)

Flying Crane said:


> Ah, Vlad the Impaler.  Or was that just his porn star name?


Vlad's dad was honored as a member of the "Order of the Dragon" and given the title of "Dracul" or dragon. Little Vlad III, later known as "the Impaler", took on the name "Draculya" that is "little dragon", or "Dragon Jr".  I read that in Romania he's something of a national hero for his resistance against the Ottoman Turks.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 18, 2022)

I have a lot more to add.  For once.

Currently prepping a large fish.


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## Jens (Jan 18, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I have a lot more to add.  For once.
> 
> Currently prepping a large fish.


Please add, as I feel the thread is starting to get derailed


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## Flying Crane (Jan 18, 2022)

Jens said:


> Please add, as I feel the thread is starting to get derailed


Ah, you can call me Vlad the Derailer!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 18, 2022)

geezer said:


> Well see for yourself. Here are their pictures:
> 
> Little Dragon 1
> View attachment 27958
> ...



You know, I knew that, but i was focusing on martial artists in China, not Folks in Transylvania...so thereofore...you got me


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 18, 2022)

The Ten Killing Hands.

Tiger, Crane, Dragon.  Five Element Fist stuff.

The Dragon elements here highlight some common southern stuff.  Wing Chun students might find this interesting.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 19, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Should add, and this is all I will have on this topic
> 咏春拳 in Cantonese is Wing Chun Keun
> 咏春拳 in Mandarin is Yǒng chūn quán
> So your first obvious difference is you are dealing with 2 different dialects; Cantonese vs Mandarin.
> ...



The whole North/South thing is the problem.

Does anyone here really believe the Shaolin Temple believed a single river separated anything?

Southern White Crane Technique:


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 19, 2022)

Speaking of Plum Flower Fist techniques, another important Southern Dragon element.

The roar.  rawr.


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## Eric_H (Jan 19, 2022)

Jens said:


> Oily Daragon said “A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane.”



It's possible, but not super likely. Wing Chun does have a Dragon Element/Attitude to it, heck in Hung Fa Yi our Siu Nim Tao has a dragon claw and our Kiu Sao has dragon shape bridging. Just because the Dragon Element is there though, it doesn't mean it's a direct descendant of Dragon Style. 

I didn't see much of Dragon attitude in YM's wing chun. Potentially due to the extra simplification of that style by Leung Jan.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 19, 2022)

Eric_H said:


> It's possible, but not super likely. Wing Chun does have a Dragon Element/Attitude to it, heck in Hung Fa Yi our Siu Nim Tao has a dragon claw and our Kiu Sao has dragon shape bridging. Just because the Dragon Element is there though, it doesn't mean it's a direct descendant of Dragon Style.
> 
> I didn't see much of Dragon attitude in YM's wing chun. Potentially due to the extra simplification of that style by Leung Jan.


It's just true.  There is no "possible".

All of the "direct" descendants are here.  As we speak.  As you just have.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

I wonder if I asked a Wing Chun student what the Soft Bridge was, what I would see.

A person's Soft Bridge is like an open book.  IN Wing Chun??  A Viper's nest.


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## Eric_H (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> It's just true.  There is no "possible".
> 
> All of the "direct" descendants are here.  As we speak.  As you just have.


Lol no


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## wckf92 (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I wonder if I asked a Wing Chun student what the Soft Bridge was, what I would see.
> 
> A person's Soft Bridge is like an open book.  IN Wing Chun??  A Viper's nest.



Is "soft bridge" know by another name or term? I'm not familiar with that... Thx!


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## clfsean (Jan 20, 2022)

Are we talking about Lum Yiu Gwai's Lung Ying Kuen which is Hakka sourced and wasn't codified until after Wing Chun was established in Foshan and other places?  Or the "fill in the blanks with your choice of ... stuff" Dragon which so many people like to take creative license with? I've played LYG's a little, played a lot from Shaolin based things (CLF, Hung, etc... ). From the WC I've danced around with and helped my teacher at home with ... I'm not seeing/feeling either.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 20, 2022)

clfsean said:


> Are we talking about Lum You Gwai's Lung Ying Kuen which is Hakka sourced and wasn't codified until after Wing Chun was established in Foshan and other places?  Or the "fill in the blanks with your choice of ... stuff" Dragon which so many people like to take creative license with? I've played LYG's a little, played a lot from Shaolin based things (CLF, Hung, etc... ). From the WC I've danced around with and helped my teacher at home with ... I'm not seeing/feeling either.



There was a Yang Taijiquan Dragon form that many were trying to sell a few years back...... per my Yang Shifu.......it was fake, no such form


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## Jens (Jan 20, 2022)

clfsean said:


> Are we talking about Lum Yiu Gwai's Lung Ying Kuen which is Hakka sourced and wasn't codified until after Wing Chun was established in Foshan and other places?  Or the "fill in the blanks with your choice of ... stuff" Dragon which so many people like to take creative license with? I've played LYG's a little, played a lot from Shaolin based things (CLF, Hung, etc... ). From the WC I've danced around with and helped my teacher at home with ... I'm not seeing/feeling either.



Sounds like Oily Dragon is referring to the dragon within Hung Ga Kuen which was the dragon from the original  5 animals of Shaolin   

Oily Dragan said
“Basically Wing Chun is Five Animal Five Element Twelve Bridge Hung Ga Kuen minus Leopard (Metal) and Tiger (Fire) styles. All of the Wing Chun forms combined contain a lot of stuff learned both at beginner and advanced levels in Choy Li Fut, Hung Ga, Five Ancestor Fist. A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane. But if you know Tiger Crane style, which contains very similar movements as the core Wing Chun forms at the beginning, you see where Wing Chun kind of sticks with short range Snake, Crane, and Dragon characteristics, and leaves out Leopard, Tiger.”


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> Is "soft bridge" know by another name or term? I'm not familiar with that... Thxer name or term? I'm not familiar with that...


Yau Kiu (as opposed to Gong Kiu) is the classic "single finger zen" pose in Yi Gi Kim Yeurng Ma.

This particular image is not in that stance but it expresses the point well.  Wing Chun students should recognize it, and this is not Snake or Crane.  This is Shaolin Dragon, in motion it expresses the coiling and seizing and stealing into the opponent, but especially the "soft within hard" stuff that is sometimes considered "internal inside external".


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

clfsean said:


> Are we talking about Lum Yiu Gwai's Lung Ying Kuen which is Hakka sourced and wasn't codified until after Wing Chun was established in Foshan and other places?  Or the "fill in the blanks with your choice of ... stuff" Dragon which so many people like to take creative license with? I've played LYG's a little, played a lot from Shaolin based things (CLF, Hung, etc... ). From the WC I've danced around with and helped my teacher at home with ... I'm not seeing/feeling either.


I'm not, but Hakka is definitely a big influence.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> There was a Yang Taijiquan Dragon form that many were trying to sell a few years back...... per my Yang Shifu.......it was fake, no such form


It's usually a matter of research to find "why" a style or simple movement is called Dragon.  If it's legitimate, there's a whole system there that lines up with historical record.  If it's not, a simple sniff test will do.

I used to think "Dragon" was Bruce Lee's style.  Boy was I ignorant back then.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

Jens said:


> Sounds like Oily Dragon is referring to the dragon within Hung Ga Kuen which was the dragon from the original  5 animals of Shaolin
> 
> Oily Dragan said
> “Basically Wing Chun is Five Animal Five Element Twelve Bridge Hung Ga Kuen minus Leopard (Metal) and Tiger (Fire) styles. All of the Wing Chun forms combined contain a lot of stuff learned both at beginner and advanced levels in Choy Li Fut, Hung Ga, Five Ancestor Fist. A lot of the twisting coiling in Wing Chun is from Dragon style. Dragon is sort of the "hidden" part of Wing Chun compared to the Snake and Crane. But if you know Tiger Crane style, which contains very similar movements as the core Wing Chun forms at the beginning, you see where Wing Chun kind of sticks with short range Snake, Crane, and Dragon characteristics, and leaves out Leopard, Tiger.”


Basically.  And people will tell me "that's just Hung Ga Kuen" but Hung Ga Kuen (the Fei Hung lineage) was the Hoover vacuum of kung fu.  It scooped almost everything up.

The Ng Ying (Five Animals/Patterns) is a common thread between many, many different styles.  From there you get the Sup Ying (10 patterns), Sup Yee Ying.  Xingyi has 12 animals, but uses them in a completely different way than Hung Ga or Wing Chun.

There's even a completely separate 5 animal qigong set that uses deer, bear.  This stuff is actually great for people with health issues.

No Dragon here, but the same energy and movement is.


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## clfsean (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I'm not, but Hakka is definitely a big influence.


In the village / non WFH Hung Kuen sure you can see relations to the Fukinese/Hakka/short shape since they don't carry the long shape from WFH.


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## Jens (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> Yau Kiu (as opposed to Gong Kiu) is the classic "single finger zen" pose in Yi Gi Kim Yeurng Ma.
> 
> This particular image is not in that stance but it expresses the point well.  Wing Chun students should recognize it, and this is not Snake or Crane.  This is Shaolin Dragon, in motion it expresses the coiling and seizing and stealing into the opponent, but especially the "soft within hard" stuff that is sometimes considered "internal inside external".
> 
> View attachment 27968


I am sorry Oily Dragon but I have to disagree, there is no one finger zen soft bridge in wing chun. The only wck linage who even has something even remotely similar is the fut sao wing chun, but in no way is it used as in hung ga


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

clfsean said:


> In the village / non WFH Hung Kuen sure you can see relations to the Fukinese/Hakka/short shape since they don't carry the long shape from WFH.


And the Lam family has preserved stuff that is also not in Wong Fei Hung's curriculum.  This is probably the source of Tang Fong's nickname "Old Square Mind". 

He refused to teach stuff (like Arrow Fist, Lion's Roar) that Fei Hung left out, because Fei Hung had already incorporated it into his 4 pillars.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

Jens said:


> I am sorry Oily Dragon, but there is no one finger zen soft bridge in wing chun. The only wck linage who even has something  remotely similar is the fut sao wing chun, but in no way is it used as in hung ga


The bridge pose is from Hung Ga Kuen, not Wing Chun.

But the Dragon style that connects them both still uses the exact same concepts, because they are both based on Yang Taoist elements of Earth and Water (which of course connect Snake and Dragon).

You'd have to go beyond kung fu training to know this.  You'd need to actually study scripture, that's where a lot of the animal-human discipline connections stand out.


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## Jens (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> The bridge pose is from Hung Ga Kuen, not Wing Chun.
> 
> But the Dragon style that connects them both still uses the exact same concepts, because they are both based on Yang Taoist elements of Earth and Water (which of course connect Snake and Dragon).
> 
> You'd have to go beyond kung fu training to know this.  You'd need to actually study scripture, that's where a lot of the animal-human discipline connections stand out.



Since you’ve studied this scripture perhaps you can share your insights with the rest of us so that we can get a clearers picture of your perspective. The thing I could see the in common between the one finger zen training in hung ha and wing chun is the rooting and waist twisting/torquing mechanics to generate spiralling force from the ground up. Is that what you’re referring to?


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## clfsean (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> And the Lam family has preserved stuff that is also not in Wong Fei Hung's curriculum.  This is probably the source of Tang Fong's nickname "Old Square Mind".
> 
> He refused to teach stuff (like Arrow Fist, Lion's Roar) that Fei Hung left out, because Fei Hung had already incorporated it into his 4 pillars.


Eh ... you can't really remove Si Ji Hao from WFH's Hung otherwise you're back to the earlier village versions like Che Kong Mak and a few others are sharing with the short/middle training. Sets are one thing, but the training between pre/post WFH and the general shape of things are a smidge different.


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

Jens said:


> Since you’ve studied this scripture perhaps you can share your insights with the rest of us so that we can get a clearers picture of your perspective. The thing I could see the in common between the one finger zen training in hung ha and wing chun is the rooting and waist twisting/torquing mechanics to generate spiralling force from the ground up. Is that what you’re referring to?


Basically, yes.  Coiling, rising energy, but there's more to it than that.

I've got a whole set of notes in front of me dusted off so I'll just select some highlights.  Under "Dragon": the sum faht of "soft within hard",  the Tang Toe Earth movements of swallowing and spitting.  The Five Animal Fist second section contains Southern Dragon Fist methods to "steal  and leak itno the oppoent using coiling and twisting of the body, blocking and striking with the elements of earth, while invading the opponent's space".  These are the same basic elements of Wing Chun.  Short range striking, but also short range grappling.

Dragon has claws, unlike Snake and Crane.  So, I often wonder, why do so many Wing Chun students forget they have 10 fingers.  Always crossing arms, chopping, striking, punching.  It's the truly advanced Wing Chun students who find the Dragon and start ripping.  Ask Alan Orr.

The common thing between the bridge and mechanics is how the animals are described in Taoist/Buddhist literature, because that was the framework in which the style creators worked.  None of it was by chance.  Taoist and Buddhist imagery and concepts were the common language of the people who met and interacted and codified things, so when you read a lot of what's been written about the Ng+ Ying styles over the centuries, the techniques when described in writing are rich with symbolism that clarifies a lot.

This is what expands beyond just Hung Ga Kuen as a specific grouping.  Let's consider Li Ga, and how Bak Mei surfaced, right down the road.  Southern Dragon motifs all over these.  Everywhere, really, because "Dragon" is how they referred to old, strong people back in the day in Canton.

It might not jump out but if you read Tang era poetry about dragons (I'm that big of a nerd), or scholarly research into Wing Chun, it starts to knit itself into a big pattern.  These scholars below (from Cornell) wrote about the connections between Southern Dragon, Wing Chun, other family styles.





__





						The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts: Judkins, Benjamin N., Nielson, Jon: 9781438456935: Amazon.com: Books
					

The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts [Judkins, Benjamin N., Nielson, Jon] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts



					www.amazon.com


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

Another good example of how this all fits together.

This ancient Daoist charm is also very close to the name of a Qing Dynasty era Southern Shaolin Dragon technique.  Just because when they made up the techniques, they used contemporary Chinese ideas of phoenixes and dragons.

Another key element of Dragon is circularity.  It's the quintessential Yang with a little Yin animal, also why it's the one of two most heavily associated with Qi development (the other being Snake).





This one is even cooler, it describes and ancient general's twin blades, "Blue Frost" and "Purple Lightning".


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 20, 2022)

clfsean said:


> Eh ... you can't really remove Si Ji Hao from WFH's Hung otherwise you're back to the earlier village versions like Che Kong Mak and a few others are sharing with the short/middle training. Sets are one thing, but the training between pre/post WFH and the general shape of things are a smidge different.


Poor wording on my part.

That's what I meant by already incorporate.  WFH didn't remove it, he pulled the elements out and put them in his own system and narrowed it down to the basic 4 since everything was in there, but definitely always gave homage to it rather than straight up nick it.  They credited their ancestors the way they always do.  Aaand now that you reminded me, Lion's Roar is another source of techniques that ended up being classified as Crane later on.  Thanks.

So today the WFH lineage has just 4 huge fist sets, and 3-4 Qigong sets.  Chin Cheung is not one of them, yet here is a whole Lam family book on it.





__





						Hung Kuen Training: Chin Cheung & Fok Fu Kuen Deui Chak by Lam Chun Fai (2014-05-03): Lam Chun Fai, Hing Chao: 9789881847560: Amazon.com: Books
					

Hung Kuen Training: Chin Cheung & Fok Fu Kuen Deui Chak by Lam Chun Fai (2014-05-03) [Lam Chun Fai, Hing Chao] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Hung Kuen Training: Chin Cheung & Fok Fu Kuen Deui Chak by Lam Chun Fai (2014-05-03)



					www.amazon.com


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## Jens (Jan 20, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> Basically, yes.  Coiling, rising energy, but there's more to it than that.
> 
> I've got a whole set of notes in front of me dusted off so I'll just select some highlights.  Under "Dragon": the sum faht of "soft within hard",  the Tang Toe Earth movements of swallowing and spitting.  The Five Animal Fist second section contains Southern Dragon Fist methods to "steal  and leak itno the oppoent using coiling and twisting of the body, blocking and striking with the elements of earth, while invading the opponent's space".  These are the same basic elements of Wing Chun.  Short range striking, but also short range grappling.
> 
> ...



Great insights into your perspective, thank you.  Sounds like what you’re referring to are the core fundamental basics of all Hakka arts power generation methods


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 24, 2022)

Jens said:


> Great insights into your perspective, thank you.  Sounds like what you’re referring to are the core fundamental basics of all Hakka arts power generation methods


I went through my copy of "The Creation of Wing Chun" and made some notes, I'll post them when I get a moment.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 24, 2022)

wckf92 said:


> Interesting. Do you have any more info on the northern version? Would like to learn more about it.
> Thanks!



It appears I was mistaken. I received this over 14 years ago from my sister-in-law in Beijing when she found out I did Xingyiquan, why she sent me a VCD of Yong Chun Quan, I don't know, but after that I was inundated with VCDs of Shaolin. But my wife saw the Yong Chun Quan VCD and said it is a Northern style. I just read all the notes on the back. The guy demonstrating the form is Peng Shusong and it is from Foshan. Sorry about the error. However the form is Xiao Lian Tou (Siu Lim Tao) and it is considerably longer than what comes from Ip Man


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 24, 2022)

Conflicts between the Hakka and Cantonese speaking people between 1855 and 1867 (the Punti-Hakka Clan Wars) led to the intermixing of several older lineages into a handful.

_"Out of necessity, the Hakka people developed Hakka Quan, Southern Praying Mantis, Bak Mei, and Dragon style, which share some important characteristics with Wing Chun"._


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 24, 2022)

A related technique from nearby Mount Luofu was Chu ka Shaolin, the Phoenix Eye Fist.  Also mentioned as a peer style of Wing Chun, Dragon, and Bak Mei.

Lin He created the Lin Jia Institute in 1862.  "_First  to learn from Shaolin, then from Huizhou_" was his school motto.  This school blended several Shi family boxing styles with older Luohan styles, and preserved elements of later styles such as "White Eyebrow and Dragon"

I love this technique, it's for ribbing people, literally.  Dragon stylists and Crane Digging Method lovers will dig this.


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## wckf92 (Jan 25, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> It appears I was mistaken. I received this over 14 years ago from my sister-in-law in Beijing when she found out I did Xingyiquan, why she sent me a VCD of Yong Chun Quan, I don't know, but after that I was inundated with VCDs of Shaolin. But my wife saw the Yong Chun Quan VCD and said it is a Northern style. I just read all the notes on the back. The guy demonstrating the form is Peng Shusong and it is from Foshan. Sorry about the error. However the form is Xiao Lian Tou (Siu Lim Tao) and it is considerably longer than what comes from Ip Man



No worries. Thanks man!


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