# Seido Kaikan?



## MMAfighter (May 10, 2005)

Well, i noticed that a lot of K1 fighters use karate and it says seido kaikan, i asked around and would have asked at MAplanet, but i'm banned from there....but anyways. Anyone know if this is an actual karate style or is it a team? and if it is a style, does anyone here do it?


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## LB_Karateka (May 15, 2005)

I believe it is an actual karate school in Japan.  The man who started the K-1 Organization, Ishii Kazuyoshi, founded it in 1980.


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## Ippon Ken (May 16, 2005)

It's a Kyokushinkai offshoot.


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## Martin h (Jun 18, 2005)

Kazuyoshi Ishii, who founded seidokaikan, left kyokushin where he was a well knoiwn fighter, together with Hideyuki Ashihara when he left kyokushin 1979. But due to differences in oppinion Mr Ichii left Ashihara to found seidokaikan only a few months after Ashihara karate was founded 1980.

As a style seidokaikan is very similar to kyokushin and ashihara. Also internaly they fight with kyokushin style knockdown rules.

Seidokaikan is, since a couple of years, now called shodokaikan (an alternate pronounciation of the  Kanji for seidokaikan) outside Japan. This is to avoid being confused with other karate styles with "seido" in the name. But in japan (and in k-1) they still use seidokaikan. Not realy a good way to avoid confusion if you ask me.....


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## Gene Williams (Jun 19, 2005)

Isn't Nakamura Seidokan?


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## Martin h (Jun 19, 2005)

No. Tadashi Nakamura founded World seido karate, or Seido juku, when he left kyokushin 1976. 

Seidokan is a trad style founded in okinawa by a gentleman named Toma. 

Then there is the infamous seido juko kai (aka combat ki) in the us. that has no associationa at all to real karate from japan.

There is also a seidokan branch of aikido.
The word seido is a common word (with several translations) in martial art.


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## Gene Williams (Jun 19, 2005)

Thanks for clearing that up. I've watched Nakamura's tapes and read his book. I can't see that he has changed anything about the Kyok kata. Did he leave for political reasons?


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## Martin h (Jun 19, 2005)

Nakamura was expelled from kyokushin, and there was a lot of bad will between him and Oyama (from Nakamura being tagged as Oyamas successor and heir-apparent) for a long time. The reason was officialy that Nakamura opened his own (non-kyokushin) dojos, during his time as the head kyokushin representative in the USA.
Inofficialy, Nakamura apparently lost out in the political backstabbing game that was kyokushin internal powergame/politics back then.

From what Ive seen Nakamuras style seido juku is more or less identical with kyokushin in formal technique and kata, but Ive heard that they dont do full contact knockdown rule sparring anymore, but goes for semicontact point sparring. Also Nakamura has starded focusing on his own brand on zen and philosophy, and include it in the trainin, and Im not sure I like that.

The main reason seidokaikan of Ichii changed its name outside of japan, was that it kept beeing confused with the seido juku of Nakamura in the states-

Btw, I didnt know Nakamura had made any tapes. Could you give me a title or two, and possibly a link??


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## Gene Williams (Jun 20, 2005)

What I saw was a tape one of my students had. What it turnes out to be is a demo Nakamura did on Wide World of Sports, and a film of him doing Tensho kata and a bo kata at a demo somewhere in California. In the Wide World/Sports demo, he uses a pair of tonfa to beat the holy crap out of some guy who has a bo. It is not gentle.


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## Martin h (Jul 2, 2005)

I have to correct myself a little regarding to the seidokaikan seidokan issue. Seidokaikan is the organisation (shodokaikan in the west), but they apparently call their style/tradition seidokan. It does not realy make the confuson about the "seido" name mess any smaller though.


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