# Stone Dragone Bassai



## stone_dragone (May 29, 2007)

A little clip of me performing my "version" of the kata Bassai Dai. There is some influence from kenpo and some adaptation due to an injured right knee.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2032682751


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## MBuzzy (May 30, 2007)

Thank you for posting that!  It is very interesting to see another style's interpretation of the form.  I do the same form for Tang Soo Do and it is fairly similar, but I definately notice the difference.  Am I correct that this is a very Japanese version of the form?  You said that it was influenced by Kempo, is that the main style that you study?


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 30, 2007)

Very nice and thanks for sharing!


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## terryl965 (May 30, 2007)

I can see the Kenpo influence in there but may I ask a question on the double punches are you throwing to the kidney and heart or some where else, now I was taking about the double thurst punches of course.
thanks
terry


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## exile (May 30, 2007)

_Very_ nicely executed, s_d! And yes, I'm interested also in the answers to Terry's questions... and anything else about bunkai for this kata that you've thought about...


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## kidswarrior (May 30, 2007)

Nicely done, *Stone Dragone*. I also watched the Memorial Day clip. Really like the 1-2, or 1-2-3 rhythm of your defenses (vs. 1-10 or 1-12 :lol. Also, the fact the attacker almost always ends up on the ground--best place for him! Obviously a very street/SD worthy art! Thanks for posting!


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## Makalakumu (May 30, 2007)

Nice looking kata.  Very deliberate.  Which kenpo did you practice?  Was it EPAK or a related lineage?  How do you think your kenpo training influenced the applications?


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## Lynne (May 30, 2007)

Now, there's a good warmup! 

I'm a newbie but I could see how you kept the integrity of the form, the crispness, and the strong movements.

I'm glad you shared.  I also find it encouraging.  A lot to work towards


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## stone_dragone (May 30, 2007)

Thank you all for the supportive feedback!  I'll address the questions as well as I can and if I leave anyone out, I'm sorry! 



MBuzzy said:


> Am I correct that this is a very Japanese version of the form? You said that it was influenced by Kempo, is that the main style that you study?





upnorthkyosa said:


> Which kenpo did you practice? Was it EPAK or a related lineage? How do you think your kenpo training influenced the applications?


 
I originally learned this form in my Nahate Goju Ryu school (we teach a lot of shotokan forms) and learned a slightly different version (more IAW Nishiyama Sensei) in a shotokan off-shoot school.  After studying IKCA kenpo (aka Sullivan/LeRoux kenpo - an Ed Parker Lineage) for a while, the need for smoother power instead of stiff strength came up so I incorperate flow more into all of my traditional forms. 



terryl965 said:


> ...on the double punches are you throwing to the kidney and heart or some where else?  terry


 
If you are discussing the morote tsuki/yamatsuki I teach a few applications.  Depending on the topic of the week, I sometimes teach it as a groin/hip crease and solar plexus strike; sometimes as a follow-up to the crescent kick to the face and solar plexus of an opponent who's leaning over; other times I use it as a throw for a charging attacker from the rear.



exile said:


> ... and anything else about bunkai for this kata that you've thought about...


 
When I originally learned this form, the hiza geri (knee kick) following the forward moving knifehands was a series of two kicks...a low kick to the knee and to the ribs before turning.  I now like to sweep the opponent's front foot with the initial chambering motion and attack the supporting knee with the side kick before turning the other way.


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## IWishToLearn (May 30, 2007)

Nice variation bro.


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 30, 2007)

Interesting version of bassai (I call it palche de, but whatever). Not much snap, though. You say you had a hurt knee, though, so I guess I can't expect too much stress. One part of the body is off, and it's all going downhill.

I'm curious, though, in regards to two differences between the version I practice and yours:

(1) The two moves from a wide front stance after the sweep (following the double-punch series at the end) are, for you, two inside-outside blocks, if I read you correctly. For us, we've just swept the opponent, so they're two backfist strikes to the downed opponent (hence why we get so low). Is this one of your adaptations, or is this common to Japanese styles?

(2) The double-punches near the end are, for us, all done in the same direction, returning to position after each one. You do them at different angles. I see the utility in that, of course. Could you elaborate on what exactly you're thinking about as you're moving through those? 

Always interesting to learn from different styles.


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## exile (May 30, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Interesting version of bassai (I call it palche de, but whatever). Not much snap, though. You say you had a hurt knee, though, so I guess I can't expect too much stress. One part of the body is off, and it's all going downhill.




Come again, JT? I'm not sure just what your objections are to Stone_Dragone's expression of Bassai. Could you elaborate on just what's `going downhill' here? I don't see what you're getting at.


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 30, 2007)

exile said:


> Come again, JT? I'm not sure just what your objections are to Stone_Dragone's expression of Bassai. Could you elaborate on just what's `going downhill' here? I don't see what you're getting at.



I'm not objecting, just questioning. My comment about "going downhill" refers to his mention of a hurt knee, which will make any form performance suffer. Couldn't tell all that much, but there was a definite lessening of snap and hesitation, which of course I attribute to a hesitancy due to the injury.


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## terryl965 (May 30, 2007)

*Interesting version of bassai (I call it palche de, but whatever). Not much snap, though. You say you had a hurt knee, though, so I guess I can't expect too much stress. One part of the body is off, and it's all going downhill.

*
JT I have been doing Bassia probaly longer than you have been born, we have a member showing his variation of this great Shotokon form and you say it is going downhill! I will ask you to please make a verbal apologie for the comment not as a Senior Mod. but as a fellow Martial Artist.

Please we need to keep positive feedback from somebody willing to post on the site.
Thank you very much
Master Stoker


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 30, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> *Interesting version of bassai (I call it palche de, but whatever). Not much snap, though. You say you had a hurt knee, though, so I guess I can't expect too much stress. One part of the body is off, and it's all going downhill.
> 
> *
> JT I have been doing Bassia probaly longer than you have been born, we have a member showing his variation of this great Shotokon form and you say it is going downhill! I will ask you to please make a verbal apologie for the comment not as a Senior Mod. but as a fellow Martial Artist.
> ...



Please read my posts more carefully than that, and I already responded to clarify my comment.


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## terryl965 (May 30, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Please read my posts more carefully than that, and I already responded to clarify my comment.


 
JT I did read your post and I personally found it to be rude at best and I did read your commit for Exile and I understand your point of views but it does not changed what is precieved by your original post.

I would just ask that you please write what you really mean and not leave it open for others to judge like we did.

Thank you
Master Stoker


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 30, 2007)

Apparently you were looking for something to find wrong with what I posted, then. Anyway, I can't edit the original post, so now you know what I was trying to say. I was relating to the common experience of having to do a form with an injury, and how even one small thing makes things go downhill fast while you're doing the form. Clear enough?

Sorry if you couldn't get that from my first post. Since Stone Dragone didn't reply, I don't even know if he took offense, but I guess he'll see my explanation now.


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## Andrew Green (May 30, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Please we need to keep positive feedback from somebody willing to post on the site.



Constructive criticism is always good 

The unfortunate thing about the internet is it doesn't translate context or emotion.  A straight critique can come across as overly negative when it wasn't meant too.

Nothing is expected to be perfect, and unfortunately many martial artists think that in order to post it, they have to do it perfect or they risk poorly representing there style / instructor or whatever.  Rather unfortunate IMO because everyone here has a lot to offer.

Of course on the other hand there are always a few people that will take every opportunity to look for flaws in everything, and if you look hard enough for problems you will always find them.

"Not much snap" is a fair comment, the way it was presented could be read in a poor way though.  And whether or not everyone agrees more snap is needed is questionable too.  Personally I think the speed was right for a technical demonstration, too snappy and the frame rate and video quality wouldn't be able to keep up.

Thanks for posting the vid, hopefully more people follow


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## stone_dragone (May 30, 2007)

First off, I greatly appreciate the support and feedback from all of my martial arts brothers and sisters and, as Andrew has said, I hope that more will post videos of themselves.

To answer JT's questions: First - the double blocks at the end _in this particular exercise_ follow a ridgehand strike to the brachial plexus instead of a sweeping hand (please note the wording...I'll explain further on). The first one (right hand) catches the attacker's right hand punch near the forearm and elbow joint and continues to wrap along the outside of it using muchimi (okinawan concept similar to sticky hands) to maintain contact while locking the joint similar to aikijutsu's ikkyo from the outside. The other hand then counter punches to the lower seidon (bone below the eyes) and comes up into a similar block catching a last ditch effort body punch from the attacker's left hand and locks it in the same position. Now using core movement instead of gross limb movement shove the controlled limb to the side and deliver a right knifehand to the brachial plexus.

As for when I said _in this particular exercise_, I tend to view kata and forms slightly differently.  I think that once a form has been learned and internalized, it can be adapted for different feel's and concepts.  Just because I learned something as a punch initially, doesn't mean that I need to keep it that way.  Kata should be a living resource.  I *do *think that one should teach the form as you learned it, but once you have demonstrated proficiency in it, you can experiment with it's applications.

Regarding the double punches just prior to the previous moves, please see post #9.

I remember when I younger, I thought that when I saw someone lacking snap, it must have been a deficiency. But after an infinite number of miles spent ruck marching, running in formation and pushing helicopters around Iraqi flightlines, I have learned what many others senior to me have learned...snap is not always the best thing for any of your joints. One thing kenpo has taught me is the value of fluidity over choppy snap.

I was not, however, offended by JT's observation.


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## Tames D (May 30, 2007)

Good job S_D. Your a class act. We need more like you!


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## JT_the_Ninja (May 31, 2007)

Thanks for the answers, stone dragone (btw, why the extra e at the end?).

I keep meaning to do a video of palche de as my school teaches it; one of these days, when I have time...


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## stone_dragone (May 31, 2007)

JT_the_Ninja said:


> Thanks for the answers, stone dragone (btw, why the extra e at the end?)...


 

Why not? :asian:


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## Shotochem (May 31, 2007)

SG,

I liked the interpretation and I can clearly see the Kempo influence in the fluidity of the movements.  I have done this form when I practiced Shotokan.  It is a strong powerful kata performed in the Shotokan version.

In your version I could clearly see the power within the fluidity and execution with or without the extra snap which depending upon the application, may not even be neccessary.  I see some good bunkai in there.  Good job.  


-Marc-


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