# New video: Wing Chun against Boxing



## bogdan.sifu (Feb 6, 2013)

Hi guys!

I hope that you may find this useful to your training  

Let me know what you think!


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## Eric_H (Feb 6, 2013)

bogdan.sifu said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I hope that you may find this useful to your training
> 
> Let me know what you think!




It's rubbish. Your "boxers" don't exhibit basic boxing footwork. Doing WC-like defenses against poor executes jabs doesn't count as being good against boxing.

I'm not sure what the intent of the video really is, it's not educational and it's not promotional.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 6, 2013)

I can't speak to the quality of the wing chun, but there was no boxing anywhere in that video.  The person feeding the attacks was not using good boxing stance, structure, footwork, distancing, body dynamics, or punching fundamentals. It's kind of hard to demonstrate legitimate counters to boxing when you don't have any boxing technique to work from.


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## Vajramusti (Feb 6, 2013)

bogdan.sifu said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I hope that you may find this useful to your training
> 
> Let me know what you think!


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I pass both on the boxing and the wing chun.


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## mook jong man (Feb 6, 2013)

Those counters are too complicated and risky , you could have stopped every one of those punches just using a Dai Sau and punch or a Tan Sau (counter pierce).

You also might want to re-title the video Wing Chun against Generic Punching Attacks or do the video again with somebody who can at least mimic some sort of resemblance to boxing.


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## Jake104 (Feb 6, 2013)

Eric_H said:


> It's rubbish. Your "boxers" don't exhibit basic boxing footwork. Doing WC-like defenses against poor executes jabs doesn't count as being good against boxing.
> *
> I'm not sure what the intent of the video really is, it's not educational and it's not promotional.*


 I found it to be very entertaining. Come on, roof top sparring! Thats awesome! Then the part when the Wing Chun guy became the boxer/villain. I didn't see that coming. It had everything suspense, drama , comedy. Two thumbs up!


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## yak sao (Feb 7, 2013)

Jake104 said:


> I found it to be very entertaining. Come on, roof top sparring! Thats awesome! Then the part when the Wing Chun guy became the boxer/villain. I didn't see that coming. It had everything suspense, drama , comedy. Two thumbs up!





Everyone's a critic..................


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2013)

Ip Man and Mike Tyson they ain't


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## Instructor (Feb 7, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> Ip Man and Mike Tyson they ain't


  Now that would be an interesting fight, assuming both were in their prime.


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## Omar B (Feb 7, 2013)

Did I miss the WC and Boxing video?  Al I saw was the one in the first post and that looked like some sort of mating ritual.


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## K-man (Feb 7, 2013)

Omar B said:


> Did I miss the WC and Boxing video?  Al I saw was the one in the first post and that looked like some sort of mating ritual.


I'm with you.  Totally missed the boxing and can only assume the other guy was practising WC.  :idunno:  It would have been infinitely better had they used a trained boxer rather than a WC stand in. Even then, I would only be impressed if the boxer was actually boxing. Then you would genuinely see how WC copes with the boxer's attack.


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## WC_lun (Feb 7, 2013)

What everyone else said.  Not great Wing Chun in my opinion either.


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## Blindside (Feb 7, 2013)

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRj2goRAz04
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> ...



You know, one of the great things with boxing is that it is relatively easy to find boxers willing to throw down.  You might try it sometime.  THAT video would be very informative.


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## geezer (Feb 7, 2013)

Get serious guys. Wing Chun really works against a boxer. Here's proof: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrLMbBM_sc&list=FLMVQT9MV49ChRYD67zAUd7w&index=2


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## arnisador (Feb 7, 2013)

I'd have to agree that the 'boxer' was not demonstrating any real knowledge of boxing. I think many of those defenses underestimate the power of, e.g., a hook punch.


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## K-man (Feb 7, 2013)

geezer said:


> Get serious guys. Wing Chun really works against a boxer. Here's proof:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrLMbBM_sc&list=FLMVQT9MV49ChRYD67zAUd7w&index=2


I'm convinced! Now all I have to find is a reputable dog club, err dojo, to hone my skills.


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## WC_lun (Feb 7, 2013)

geezer said:


> Get serious guys. Wing Chun really works against a boxer. Here's proof:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrLMbBM_sc&list=FLMVQT9MV49ChRYD67zAUd7w&index=2



That pretty good 

Western Boxing was one of the first things I did.  It definitley has its' strengths.  Wing Chun does work against it.  The OP did a diservice to Wing Chun because it claimed to be against boxing, but there really was no western boxing.


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

You don't want to use a Tan Sau against a hook punch.
The circular force of a tight hook punch acts like a parry and knocks the Tan Sau aside.

We use a Dai Sau against hook punches , it doesn't require pivoting and only needs the arm to be raised from the guard with the elbow and forearm out at a 45 degree angle.
The hook is deflected upwards and more often than not they hurt themselves by ramming the inside of their forearm onto the outside of your forearm or point of your elbow.

Worst case scenario and the force from the hook is too great , then the force can be directed over your head by turning the Dai Sau into a Bong Sau and pivoting.
Having said that , if he is close enough to use a tight powerful hook you should be close enough to  punch him in the face with your centerline punch.

The Tan Sau against a circular strike can work , but it is more suited to something like a hay maker where the angle of the arm is a lot more extended , *not a tight hook.*

Another case where it works well is against the back of the arm of a spinning back fist because the angle of the opponents arm is limited to being straight or slightly bent and can't curve it's way around the Tan Sau.


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## Aiseant (Feb 8, 2013)

Hihi, you made my day \o/

(just try this with cats and prepare bandages  )


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## Vajramusti (Feb 8, 2013)

K-man said:


> I'm convinced! Now all I have to find is a reputable dog club, err dojo, to hone my skills.


----------------------------------------------
The boxer video was funny. My 3 Arctic dogs- two Samoyeds and a powerful malamute are now on the other  side of the rainbow bridge.
All 3 learned standing and moving chi sao  using two fook saos on top of a bong and tan  alignment by me.
Their fok saos were gentle, controlling and on the spot in rolling. When there was an opening they could strike 
with their nails on either one of the paws. Good times.


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------
> The boxer video was funny. My 3 Arctic dogs- two Samoyeds and a powerful malamute are now on the other  side of the rainbow bridge.
> All 3 learned standing and moving chi sao  using two fook saos on top of a bong and tan  alignment by me.
> Their fok saos were gentle, controlling and on the spot in rolling. When there was an opening they could strike
> with their nails on either one of the paws. Good times.



Our little Pomeranian does something like that , only he does it when your scratching his chest.
He likes getting his chest scratched so much that when you go to take your hand away he clamps onto your wrist with two text book Fook Sau's so you can't take your hand back.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> Our little Pomeranian does something like that , only he does it when your scratching his chest.
> He likes getting his chest scratched so much that when you go to take your hand away he clamps onto your wrist with two text book* Fook Sau's *so you can't take your hand back.




That sounds just like a Scotsman swearing!


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> That sounds just like a Scotsman swearing!



No , that would be Fook You Jimmy.

I always wondered who Jimmy was and why they were always telling him to eff off.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2013)

LOL, Jimmy is anyone not you!


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## geezer (Feb 8, 2013)

mook jong man said:


> You don't want to use a Tan Sau against a hook punch.
> The circular force of a tight hook punch acts like a parry and knocks the Tan Sau aside.
> 
> We use a Dai Sau against hook punches , it doesn't require pivoting and only needs the arm to be raised from the guard with the elbow and forearm out at a 45 degree angle.
> ...



In LT's WT and many of it's offshoots they do train tan-sau against a hooking punch. As you pointed out, it can work against long, looping punches. Against a hard, tight hook _...not so well, IMO. 
_
I prefer another technique I learned early on. We call it _fook-sau_, but it's not the hook-handed centerline fook sau of SNT and chi-sau. Rather it is a bit like a tan sau but with the palm facing down and the elbow turned out a little so it's aligned with the side of the body ...maybe a bit like the turning stance tan-sau of chum kiu but with the palm down and often extended a bit further. This has proved functional against a tight hook, either jamming and stopping it or deflecting it upwards and then rolling through to bong-sau like you described. 

As for _Dai-sau_, I never knew what that was untill I found it in an old book of mine by Jim Fung and Karen Armstrong. Guess what? That's pretty much what we've been calling "fook sau" all this time. Anyway, I think its an extremely useful technique. I have no idea why it seems to be de-emphasized in some of the WT programs these days.


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## mook jong man (Feb 8, 2013)

geezer said:


> In LT's WT and many of it's offshoots they do train tan-sau against a hooking punch. As you pointed out, it can work against long, looping punches. Against a hard, tight hook _...not so well, IMO.
> _
> I prefer another technique I learned early on. We call it _fook-sau_, but it's not the hook-handed centerline fook sau of SNT and chi-sau. Rather it is a bit like a tan sau but with the palm facing down and the elbow turned out a little so it's aligned with the side of the body ...maybe a bit like the turning stance tan-sau of chum kiu but with the palm down and often extended a bit further. This has proved functional against a tight hook, either jamming and stopping it or deflecting it upwards and then rolling through to bong-sau like you described.
> 
> As for _Dai-sau_, I never knew what that was untill I found it in an old book of mine by Jim Fung and Karen Armstrong. Guess what? That's pretty much what we've been calling "fook sau" all this time. Anyway, I think its an extremely useful technique. I have no idea why it seems to be de-emphasized in some of the WT programs these days.



Yeah that would work.
You could also use the Fook Sau to redirect it down  instead of up , but for that to work properly you would have to pivot , something against a hook that I would prefer not to do.

Counters that involve pivots are best done when the opponent is trying to do a strike that involves spinning or his side is turned to you , because you don't have to worry about being hit from the other hand as he would have to spin back around the other way to hit you.


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## poulperadieux (Feb 9, 2013)

Hooks and Wing Chun


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## Cyriacus (Feb 9, 2013)

poulperadieux said:


> Hooks and Wing Chun



See now, im just glad to see someone who acknowledges how most people throw hooks


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## takadadojokeith (Feb 11, 2013)

geezer said:


> Get serious guys. Wing Chun really works against a boxer. Here's proof:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHrLMbBM_sc&list=FLMVQT9MV49ChRYD67zAUd7w&index=2



Easily the best post in this thread. 

The only thing I'll add is that, if you really want demo some wing chun techniques against a boxer, the guy should be moving a little more like this...


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## Danny T (Feb 11, 2013)

bogdan.sifu said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I hope that you may find this useful to your training
> 
> Let me know what you think!



Thanks for the posting and I do appreciate your courage to show your level of understanding. It is 'Strongly' recommended you team up with a much higher level boxer and re-evaluate your responses. This is exactly why my Sifu requires all of his high level instructors to have a high level of training in other training systems. We do not train against wing chun people attempting to simulate a boxer, we train against real boxers, real muay thai fighters, real groundfighters, etc... to truly understand how to apply wing chun against those attacks. As shown in your video, there is very little knowledge or understanding of a real boxers punches. 

I have a huge passion for the wing chun training system having trained in it for over 20 years. However, I came from a boxing background and what you show here will get someone hurt against real boxing punches.

I hope you find these word useful to your training.

Danny Terrell
Progressive Martial Arts Training Center


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 11, 2013)

Danny T said:


> Thanks for the posting and I do appreciate your courage to show your level of understanding. It is 'Strongly' recommended you team up with a much higher level boxer and re-evaluate your responses. This is exactly why my Sifu requires all of his high level instructors to have a high level of training in other training systems. We do not train against wing chun people attempting to simulate a boxer, we train against real boxers, real muay thai fighters, real groundfighters, etc... to truly understand how to apply wing chun against those attacks. As shown in your video, there is very little knowledge or understanding of a real boxers punches.
> 
> I have a huge passion for the wing chun training system having trained in it for over 20 years. However, I came from a boxing background and what you show here will get someone hurt against real boxing punches.
> 
> ...



Danny, can you recommend any videos on YouTube showing application of Wing Chun against real boxing?


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## geezer (Feb 11, 2013)

_Tony_, I'm on lunch at work and can't access Youtube, but _Alan Orr_  over in the UK and _Sifu Fernandez_ (AKA _Fighterman_) in Italy both have some good clips of sparring sessions againt partners who box. Both have boxing training too and believe in good solid contact to keep it honest.  It's really interesting to see how their WC changes when applied with and against pressure. Some WC traditionalists hate what these guys do, but I give them a lot of respect.


BTW, Fighterman is a member of this forum. I'd like to get Alan Orr on board too.


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## wtxs (Feb 11, 2013)

geezer said:


> BTW, Fighterman is a member of this forum. I'd like to get Alan Orr on board too.



With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard.  Maybe we should extend him an invite.


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## geezer (Feb 11, 2013)

wtxs said:


> With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard. Maybe we should extend him an invite.



I just did. Sent him a PM, but he doesn't know me "from Adam" as they say, so if anyone else wants to contact him, go ahead.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 11, 2013)

I just watched a few of Alan Orr's videos.  My knowledge of Wing Chun is extremely limited, but from my experience in other martial arts I have to say that what he's doing looks very effective.


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## Instructor (Feb 12, 2013)

wtxs said:


> With all that WC in-fighting in the other forum he's on, don't think you'll have to try very hard.  Maybe we should extend him an invite.



What is the one thing common to all styles of martial arts?      This..


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## wtxs (Feb 12, 2013)

Instructor said:


> What is the one thing common to all styles of martial arts?      This..



Nature of the beast ... in-fighting as to who got the real stuff and whois doing right, or wrong.  They can't see past their own egos and maybe able to learn from each other.  Never mind even try to accept there are more than one way to "skin a cat"... I do have cats by the way.

I don't visit other sections of this forum, but I rate this WC forum is way above civility than the other sites I had been.


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