# Question about a takedown defense



## Ironcrane (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm just so full of questions today. Anyways, a long time ago, when I was surfing youtube, I came across a video of Frank Shamrock demonstrating a few defenses against a takedown.
One of these was turning your hip, to pivot your hipbone into the other guys face as he shoots in. I kinda liked that one, but I've never seen, or even heard of that move again. I've never seen any takedown defense in use aside from the sprawl, and once, a guillotine choke.
I understand why the sprawl is #1 in takedown defense, but does anyone have any experience with using the move that I described above?


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## seasoned (Dec 18, 2008)

Ironcrane said:


> I'm just so full of questions today. Anyways, a long time ago, when I was surfing youtube, I came across a video of Frank Shamrock demonstrating a few defenses against a takedown.
> One of these was turning your hip, to pivot your hipbone into the other guys face as he shoots in. I kinda liked that one, but I've never seen, or even heard of that move again. I've never seen any takedown defense in use aside from the sprawl, and once, a guillotine choke.
> I understand why the sprawl is #1 in takedown defense, but does anyone have any experience with using the move that I described above?


I don't, but if Frank Shamrock did it, it must be good.


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## crushing (Dec 18, 2008)

It sounds like a sprawl to me.  How was what Shamrock showing different than a sprawl?  Depending on positioning I may turn a hip in when sprawling to create leverage to help break or prevent single or double leg grabs.

Do you have a link to the video?


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## DavidCC (Dec 18, 2008)

ask Dr. Dave Crouch (user name Kembudo Kai Kempoka).  he ha s number of non-spawl take down defenses, this might be related to some of that.

But basically if you can get a solid enough base, and disturb  the other guy's momentum and leverage, you can nullify his ability to transfer that momentum to you...


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## Ironcrane (Dec 18, 2008)

crushing said:


> It sounds like a sprawl to me.  How was what Shamrock showing different than a sprawl?  Depending on positioning I may turn a hip in when sprawling to create leverage to help break or prevent single or double leg grabs.
> 
> Do you have a link to the video?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WUphbFk2iw&feature=related

I didn't remember it quite right, so my description was a little off, but this is the move.


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## jarrod (Dec 18, 2008)

a former world sambo champ showed me that & almost knocked me out with it.  i'm having trouble getting the hang of using it because it doesn't work as well against single leg shots, & it also depends on which side of your hips his head goes to.  

jf


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## davj22 (Dec 19, 2008)

That is definitely one of many techniques that could be used effectively to defend against a takedown.  

In general though from my experience I think it's usually best to get out of the way of the shoot through good footwork by getting off the immediate line of attack.  In doing so it's important to angle your feet and body so you're not meeting the opponent head-on to protect your triangle of balance ("happo no kuzushi") and instead meeting him at a 45 degree angle.  

Your closet hand and forearm can then strike the head or break the jaw while the your other arm can be used to quickly dislocate the opponent's elbow or shoulder while he is charging in.  That why you can take him out before he even gets to the ground so you don't into a wrestling match and you have the ability to defend against multiple attackers.  It's very important never to become a prisoner to the opponent especially in the street ... but even in MMA competitions it's still an important concept so you can conserve energy.  

The below link illustrates what I'm talking about, but doesn't point out the particular standing joint locks that I mentioned.  Hope that is helpful.


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## Empty Hands (Dec 19, 2008)

Ironcrane said:


> One of these was turning your hip, to pivot your hipbone into the other guys face as he shoots in.



Sounds like you would be just giving the other guy your leg for a single leg takedown.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 19, 2008)

I have used this one a couple of times and seen it used as well.  I have used it in conjunction with a sprawl immediately following.  Still it falls way down the line of what I would like to use as a take down defense.  To many opportunities for the other guy to get a leg and drive forward. Obviously in take down the number one priority is avoidance but after that the tried and true *sprawl* is where it is at.


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## crushing (Dec 20, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Sounds like you would be just giving the other guy your leg for a single leg takedown.


 
That's why I assummed turning the hip in was part of sprawl.

EDIT (after watching the video):  He didn't show much about following up the technique of the hip thrust other than a push off.  I think it may open up the opponent for a really nasty cross face.  I would have liked to see the demonstration at closer to full speed with a couple follow ups.


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## Skpotamus (Dec 21, 2008)

That seems like a good wrestler would just turn the corner and drive you down and possibly take your back.  

Frank Shamrock teaching takedown defense?  I never remember him stopping a shot in ANY of his fights.  He normally wanted the fight on the ground so he could work his subs.  When he was trying to keep it standing against a smaller Renzo Gracie, who's not known for his takedowns, Shamrock couldn't.  




 
He also couldn't stop Phil Baroni from taking him down in their fight, Baroni isn't known for his great TD's either.  



  At 27 seconds it looks like frank might've tried that TD defense.  

Personally, if you're going to look for a fighter to teach TD defense, I'd look hard at Chuck Liddell (stopped pretty much everybody's TD's) GSP (stopped Hughes, Koscheck, Fitch).

Here is Chuck Liddell's.  
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense1Distance.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense2Level.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossPit_TDdefense3Hips.wmv

YMMV


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