# How does Hapkido compare to



## Kensai (Jun 20, 2006)

Another grappling/short ranged art such as ju-jitsu? I appreciate it's a bit of a vague question, but having studied at various ju jitsu dojos I have found that the training is somewhat lax. My primary art at the moment is Wing Chun, which is pretty short-ranged and explosive, with great reflex conditioning blocks as opposed to just kata style learning. That said, it's an art not without it's weaknesses, and I decided that rather than simply go back to find yet another averagely taught JJ class, I'd spread the net slightly wider, and check out some Korean arts. 

What (if it exists) would be a fairly typical syllabus in Hapkido. Once again, apologies for the somewhat ambiguous nature of this post, please enlighten me. 

Cheers,

Kensai


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## shesulsa (Jun 20, 2006)

You might want to look around in the Hapkido forum here.  Paul B has been posting some things on syllabus as have others ... might give you an idea to start with.


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## matt.m (Jun 20, 2006)

Well let's see how to begin to answer your question.  Well as with any art it all comes down to the instructor and the school as to if it is hard core or not.  

There are different styles of hapkido, I study Moo Sul Kwan hapkido.  I know of Kuk Sool and Sin Moo hapkido as well.  

So to give you somewhat of a reference of a cirriculum it would be the following:

25 wrist techniques
25 clothes techniques
throwing
modified throwing
multiple kicks
randori
free sparring
Punching
Kicking
Cane
Knife defense
one arm throwing

It is my personal belief that hapkido is an art that stands on its own merit.  What I mean is that it is a wide enough cirriculum that there are no weaknesses, therefore you wouldn't need to study another art.

I am studying Tae Kwon Do at the same time as hapkido.  I am doing this because I enjoy working the forms of TKD.  The forms in and of themselves are a great workout.

I hope this helps.


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## Eviscerate (Jun 20, 2006)

>





			
				Kensai said:
			
		

> Another grappling/short ranged art such as ju-jitsu? I appreciate it's a bit of a vague question, but having studied at various ju jitsu dojos I have found that the training is somewhat lax. My primary art at the moment is Wing Chun, which is pretty short-ranged and explosive, with great reflex conditioning blocks as opposed to just kata style learning. That said, it's an art not without it's weaknesses, and I decided that rather than simply go back to find yet another averagely taught JJ >class, I'd spread the net slightly wider, and check out some Korean arts.
> 
> I think the cross training would greatly benefit you if you decide to use the oppurtunity. Not just for the joint manipulation/falling involved but also from the alternate perspective on striking.
> 
> ...


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## FearlessFreep (Jun 20, 2006)

I currently switched from Taekwondo to "Hybrid Hapkido" so...as I wasn't sure where Taekwondo ended and something else begins, I don't know where Hapkido ends and something else begins.  What I've seen so far is a very complete self-defense martial art.  I'm still practicing the Taekwondo forms and would like to keep doing some sparring and reach my black belt eventually, but for now I'm focusing more on self-defense.

One day we did all kicks, lot's of kicks, things I knew from Taekwondo and some new low kicks I hadn't seen.  One day we did all Hoshinsul.  One day it was all throws.  Last few weeks have been a change of pace to more ground work (lot of BJJ-like techniques that were familar from my short stint in a BJJ class...lessee... one legged guard pass, bridge mount escape, open guard hook sweep...stuff like that)

as always...what you get out of an art probably depends on what the instructor is trying to treach you and what kinda of school you find.  (MY current Hapkido school s much more like my first Takewondo school that the two Taekwondo schools I viosited along the way)


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for the replies guys, obviously the important point is how it's taught. The same in any art. The only reason I asked was that I wanted to know if there was anything specifically different to ju-jitsu in the way that it was taught, or it's actual application. I tended to find *very* compliant partners, and felt that there were a lot of overly complicated techniques that I personally believe are too complex to use in a live situation. Just an opinion, but one I happen to believe. Hence my enquiry into this. 

The next stage would be to try and find a class where I live, easier said than done.  

Regards,

Kensai


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

matt.m said:
			
		

> Well let's see how to begin to answer your question. Well as with any art it all comes down to the instructor and the school as to if it is hard core or not.
> 
> There are different styles of hapkido, I study Moo Sul Kwan hapkido. I know of Kuk Sool and Sin Moo hapkido as well.
> 
> ...


 
Oh, I enjoy Wing Chun immensely, won't be giving that up, simply adding to it. Thanks again guys. 

Kensai


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## American HKD (Jun 21, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> I tended to find *very* compliant partners, and felt that there were a lot of overly complicated techniques that I personally believe are too complex to use in a live situation. Just an opinion, but one I happen to believe. Hence my enquiry into this.
> 
> The next stage would be to try and find a class where I live, easier said than done.
> 
> ...


 
Greetings,

At my school we teach the techniques that work and are straight foward, fancy move are for demos.

Beginners are taught movements with no resistance after they have an idea of the movements we slowly increase presure to full power.

All course full power requires a pretty high level of mastery otherwise people break form and the tech will fail, but that's the person not the technique that fails! 

HKD as a full range of skills consider it the best MMA system!


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

American HKD said:
			
		

> Greetings,
> 
> At my school we teach the techniques that work and are straight foward, fancy move are for demos.
> 
> ...


 
Good good. Have had difficulty in finding a class within 30 or 40 miles of me which is unfortunate, as I was starting to look forward to finding out more about this.


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## iron_ox (Jun 21, 2006)

Hello all,

Oddly enough, I was just going to ask if there were even classes aailable in the Midlands.  I wasn't sure.  You might want to check for seminars in the area, or travel to one and see what is available.  

One observation, and this is not in any way a critism, but it was mentioned that there were techniques that seemed too complex for "real" application - where in the world is any person where they have to defend their life everyday as a civilian - if not in a war zone?  

Every traditional martial art will have anacronistic techniques that are part of the style that are often not totally applicable to the modern world - sword defense comes to mind - but they are taught and practised for the sake of the completeness of the art, not because of their relevance to a street fight.  

When people come into my dojang and say they want to learn to defend themselves, and that they only want to learn "street fighting" techniques, I lead them to the window, where I ask them to point out the ravaging hordes of armed horseman - they look at me and (often in disbelief) ask if I am kidding - I say no, they respond that of course there are none, and I sit them back down and explain that a traditional martial art is about so much more than viable street techniques.

Just thought I would mention that.  If, by the way, you do look out the window and see mounted hordes, it might be time to consider relocation...


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

iron_ox said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> Oddly enough, I was just going to ask if there were even classes aailable in the Midlands. I wasn't sure. You might want to check for seminars in the area, or travel to one and see what is available.
> 
> ...


 
It's much worse than that mate, I live in Wolverhampton. This place is like Beirut. (Apologies if anyone is actually from there) I didn't mean that there is anything wrong per se with the more complex technique, but I must concede that I do judge most of the techniques that I study and evaluate as to how they fit me, whether I think I could remember 3, 4 or 5 moves that lead to a take down. That's one of the things about Wing Chun I like, the simplicity  and direct aggressiveness. It, however, lacks a lot of grappling, or SD aspects, so that's something I'm looking to improve upon. Sure, I totally agree, training art for arts sake is a noble pursuit, in my case it's just not my priority, although I do consider it important.


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## iron_ox (Jun 21, 2006)

Hello all,

Sorry to hear you live in Wolverhampton - I think that in my many years living in the UK, I never wanted to visit there - and by the sound of it for good reason...

What Hapkido might be closest?  Is there any around you?


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

iron_ox said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> Sorry to hear you live in Wolverhampton - I think that in my many years living in the UK, I never wanted to visit there - and by the sound of it for good reason...
> 
> What Hapkido might be closest?  Is there any around you?



Me too mate. Thanks for the condolences though.  So, would I be right in assuming you're American/Canadian, and lived in the UK for a stretch? You missed nothing, it's a cultural desert. Horrible place, small minded, grimey, polluted, high crime rates, the list goes on.

There's a class the other side of Coventry, but it would be on the same nights as my Wing Chun, and is quite a way. There's plenty available "daan saarf" near London and the south coast, but that's even worse. Will have to persevere, as I'm really quite taken with this.


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## iron_ox (Jun 21, 2006)

Hello Kensai,

American, Moved to the UK in late 1974...moved back full time to US in 1983, Back and forth until early 90's.  

Which Coventry club did you mean?  You probably can't go wrong with the Hastings Brothers.  If you were going to head "saarf" my suggestion is to get in touch with Joe Marsh in Cheshunt.  He is the official Jungki Kwan International Rep. for the UK and a great teacher (yes, I am somewhat biased - I've known him for 20+ years).  He has a full time location and could probably hook up some classes for you  that might be very convenient  with the travel.
Joe can be found at:  www.hapkidosites.com/hbba1

The only other organization I can vouch for personally is International Hapkido, under  Grandmaster Fred Adams.  They can be reached at www.international-hapkido.com 

Hope some of this helps...
[/FONT]


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## Kensai (Jun 21, 2006)

iron_ox said:
			
		

> Hello Kensai,
> 
> American, Moved to the UK in late 1974...moved back full time to US in 1983, Back and forth until early 90's.
> 
> ...



Thank-you for your kindness, I'll check those out tomorrow when I'm at work... Well, what else am I meant to do when I'm there? 

Nice once mate.

Jude


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## FearlessFreep (Jun 21, 2006)

One thing I try to do is that when I'm taught a combination move of several movements..well..sometimes take in total they doseem not too realistic.  "The bad guy will do *this* and I wil do *this* and then *that*, and *that* and *that*: and then you step back and say "oh get real!"  So instead I try to break it down not as a complete combination that I would ever do, but at *each piece* as a move to learn all in itself.  Mostly in the sense of "when I do *this*, the other persons body moves in a certain way..how can I use that? what position des it put me in and where can I go from there?  What if I change the angle?  Or the pressure?"  So, a single response drill is not one thing to learn but is a consise package for leaning many things that flow together, but should really be studied on their own as well.


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## Kensai (Jun 22, 2006)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> One thing I try to do is that when I'm taught a combination move of several movements..well..sometimes take in total they doseem not too realistic.  "The bad guy will do *this* and I wil do *this* and then *that*, and *that* and *that*: and then you step back and say "oh get real!"  So instead I try to break it down not as a complete combination that I would ever do, but at *each piece* as a move to learn all in itself.  Mostly in the sense of "when I do *this*, the other persons body moves in a certain way..how can I use that? what position des it put me in and where can I go from there?  What if I change the angle?  Or the pressure?"  So, a single response drill is not one thing to learn but is a consise package for leaning many things that flow together, but should really be studied on their own as well.



Hmmm... Like that, might nick that technique off of you if you don't mind.  Good idea. 

Cheers, 

Kensai.


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## Paul B (Jun 23, 2006)

Hi Kensai,

To add my two cents.. 

Hapkido has very little "fat" to be trimmed from it's technique. Our approach is pretty straightforward and to the point. Whatever else one can say about us Hapkidoin..as a rule we don't like to waste time and dilly-dally with our technique.

However..as Kevin stated earlier in the thread, there may be some anachronistic techniques and weapons you run into along the way,but I would like to point out that the principles behind the movements are just as important today as they were in the period they came from. Until man evolves into having three arms and four legs the principles stay the same and the technique relevant.

Hope this helped.


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## Kensai (Jun 28, 2006)

Paul B said:
			
		

> Hi Kensai,
> 
> To add my two cents..
> 
> ...


 
It does help, thanks mate. :asian: 

I'm getting a very favourable impression of this art, however, unless I move, I'm not finding any luck in finding a class within a 10-15 mile radius. Which, as I'm going to be doing it during the week, and get home from work around 6ish, I don't want to have to travel for too long to get there. That's the only problem I have at the moment with it.


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## spinkick (Jul 6, 2006)

Well luckily for me, one of my cheif instructors studied in the Grambies school of wrestling for a long time for those who do not know that's grecko Roman wrestling, and a little history while i'm at it, when the first jiujitsu guys came over the Wrestlers tore them up.  Anyway I have a pretty good array of weapons on the ground. But I've never really liked jiujitsu to much because If i have to fight its going to be to save my life so if someone puts me in the gaurd im biting him and gauging out his eyes.


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## Paul B (Jul 6, 2006)

spinkick said:
			
		

> Well luckily for me, one of my cheif instructors studied in the Grambies school of wrestling for a long time for those who do not know that's grecko Roman wrestling, and a little history while i'm at it, when the first jiujitsu guys came over the Wrestlers tore them up. Anyway I have a pretty good array of weapons on the ground. But I've never really liked jiujitsu to much because If i have to fight its going to be to save my life so if someone puts me in the gaurd im biting him and gauging out his eyes.


 
If you have read EJ Harrison's "The Fighting Spirit of Japan" you will find that EJ didn't think much of his "catch as catch can" skills after being embarrassed by a Japanese policeman who was also a Judoka in 1901.

 For that reason,among others, I very much doubt that western wrestlers "back in the day" had anything so special as to compete with the impressive arsenal of locks,chokes,and throws of Kano's Judoka or Kano Ryu Ju Jutsu as it was known at the time.

Now..if you meant that the average Joe who stepped off the plane from wherever as an instant Grandmaster..then I could see where you got that from,but written history has shown that the early contact with Jujutsu and the like were anything but lop-sided victories.


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## Marvin (Jul 6, 2006)

spinkick said:
			
		

> Well luckily for me, one of my cheif instructors studied in the Grambies school of wrestling for a long time for those who do not know that's grecko Roman wrestling,


 
Spinkick, when you say Grambies school do you mean Granby system, like the Granby roll? Because if so, I think there may be some mix up. That technique is used in folkstyle exclusively (because of the way the points are scored). 
If it is something different please post more about it on the grappling forum if you don't mind. I find if very interesting hearing about different styles of wrestling.
Thanks


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## howard (Jul 6, 2006)

Marvin said:
			
		

> Spinkick, when you say Grambies school do you mean Granby system, like the Granby roll? Because if so, I think there may be some mix up. That technique is used in folkstyle exclusively (because of the way the points are scored).


I suspect he did.  Googling "Grambies wrestling" brings up nothing.

I grew up in the town (Norfolk, VA) where the Granby roll was created.  It was created by a high school wrestling coach named Billy Martin.  He coached wrestling for years at Granby High School.  He produced many outstanding wrestlers, including numerous guys who went on to become NCAA champions, and a few olympians.  Both of his sons were outstanding wrestlers.  I knew one of them (David).

Martin taught traditional wrestling of the type that's done in high schools and colleges across the US.

What do you mean by "folkstyle" wrestling?


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## Marvin (Jul 6, 2006)

howard said:
			
		

> What do you mean by "folkstyle" wrestling?


 
Howard, when I say "folkstyle" I am talking about elementary, high school, college wrestling, big air throws are not allowed.

Freestyle has a different set of scoring rules and the takedowns can have more amplitude. Freestyle is done in the Olympics.

Greco/Roman, you can not attack your opponents legs to do a take down or use your legs or feet to trip him or take him down. All throws/takedowns are from the waist up.  Also an Olympic sport.


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