# Extremely Frustrated



## Jade Tigress (Aug 10, 2007)

Here we go again, I posted a couple years ago about the same problem when I was training Sil Lum. Now I've been training SPM for a year and same problem.

I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:

I've been told to try and "visualize" an attack and formulate in my mind what to do. I tried that, same thing. I don't know, makes me want to just give it up, but I looove martial arts. It just seems to me the whole point of training is being lost. 

It's even more frustrating because guys who have much less time in training than I do, don't have any problem with that cross over and it makes me feel like a "dumb girl". No one in class makes me feel that way. It's how I make me feel. I've been told to visualize, to continue practicing, that SPM is a difficult style to learn. I just feel like I will never get it. 

How, how, how do I get past this hurdle???


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## Andrew Green (Aug 10, 2007)

I don't know a great deal about how you are training, so I could be off here.  But my guess is that the way you are being taught the techniques is fairly static?

You do x reps with little to know resistance / variation, move on. 

If that is the case you need to to start working the middle piece a little more.  Kind of like if you learnt Judo by just practicing throws, never learning grip fighitng and off balancing.

You need to isolate the technique in the situation it will occur, and spar.  Once position is lost either with a successful technique or not, restart.  Your partner offers minimal resistance, but increases as you get the hang of it.

One little thing at a time, worrying more about control and positioning then the actuial technique in question.


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## bushidomartialarts (Aug 10, 2007)

Relax.  And by relax, I mean _relax_.  Don't just get tense about whether or not you're relaxed.

Most people with that trouble are that way because they're worried about their performance.  They worry that they look foolish.  They worry that they're not doing a good job.  They berate themselves for how they haven't progressed as far as they think they should.

Sound familiar?

The trick is just to relax.  You're as good at that as you are, no better, no worse.  Accept it, celebrate it and forget how good you think you ought to be.  Once you've done that, you'll find it comes quickly.

Remember, every thought you have about whether or not you're flowing well is a brain cell you're not using to flow well.


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## Kacey (Aug 10, 2007)

Get a partner who will help you practice, by throwing known techniques to start with.  Start at a slow speed, so that you have time to process what is coming and what to do about it.  Gradually increase the speed and, as that gets easier, slow down again and have your partner start throwing unplanned techniques, first slowly and with a lot of keying (so you can see what's coming before it gets there) - then slowly speed the exercise up again.

Practice is the only way around something like this... and you are far from the only person who's had this difficulty.


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## michaeledward (Aug 10, 2007)

If you wish to learn how to be spontaneous . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . be spontaneous.

Have a couple training partners attack you. They get to choose the attack. They don't tell you what the attack is. The one thing they need to do, is start their attacks from at least three steps away. They should not try and be sneaky about the attack, with feints and bluffs. Have them telegraph that big John Wayne Haymaker. They should be committed to their attack, with perhaps 50% to 60% speed and force. You need the read time - (If you can't read it, you can't defend against it).

You get to respond. There are no incorrect ways to respond. Just do something .... and keep doing it until they are on the ground.


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## exile (Aug 10, 2007)

Excellent advice from all posters so far, Pam. Let me add just one trick that I found very useful at a Combat Hapkido seminar with Gm. Pelligrini, and have used since to good effect (and I am the world's most hopeless MAer when it comes to using new `solo' techs in a partnered situation): _talk out_ the tech as you do it in slow motion, first solo, then with a partner slo mo, as Kacey suggested. In effect, explain to your partner what you are doing as s/he moves in as uke to attack you. What I find is that at a certain point, if I'm not really getting it, I start faltering and mumbling something like `... and then my other hand comes over and the thumb inserts into the space between your thumb and forefinger... wait, that's not right... shouldn't my hand be the other way? Or do I come _under_ your gripping hand...' and look helplessly at uke, who either kindly sets me straight, or else also looks hopeless and we summon the instructor and get it cleared up. Talking your way through the problem is often one of the best ways to home in on just where there's a missing link in your understanding of the tech... just an idea that I've found works for me and might help you too...

Once you get it in slow mo and can conceptualize the tech well enough to talk your way through it smoothly as you do it, rev up the speed and start omitting the commentary. At this point, you've `got' and are just bringing it up to combat speed.


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2007)

I may be able to post up an answer tomorrow! I have similiar problems along with not have much confidence in myself when I'm training martial arts. I also have no motivation or get up and go in me to do any fitness training on my own so I've plucked up my courage and tonight I'm seeing a well recommended hypnotherapist to see if he can help me get out of myself whatever I need to do to get myself out of this!
I'm having an initial consultation to see if he can help, I've been told by people who've recommended him that he won't say he'll help if he can't.


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## Shotochem (Aug 10, 2007)

Try not to think as much and "feel" a bit more. 

     I had a bit of difficulty adjusting to the Kempo way or doing things.  Now, I am getting more into the flow of things and am softening up my hard Shotokan movenents.  It just takes a bit of time.  Pair yourself up with a good openminded mat partner and work things out slowly then the speed and muscle memory will eventually kick in.

-Marc-


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## Flying Crane (Aug 10, 2007)

First off, don't expect to get techniques to work exactly as they are taught or exactly as they are extracted from the form.  Those are taught in an "ideal" phase, as a base from which to work.  But you will seldom, or never, get that ideal situation.  So adjust your expectations.  

Once you do that, you can start responding to attacks using ideas from the techs and the forms.  Not textbook techs, but just the ideas, snippets, bits of several things that come together to answer the current problem.  But this still takes time and a lot of practice.

As Kacy suggested, you need to work with partners on this, starting slowly then gradually faster, start with the base ideal phase, but gradually move away from that into the spontaneous response.  Start with identified and expected attacks, then become more random.  But you need to work with a trusted partner and be consistent.  It'll come, but it can be frustrating.

I work these kinds of drills with my wife (she began training kenpo about 7 moths ago) and she has found it to be quite useful.  After just a few sessions of this, she felt a boost in her confidence level as she could see how the things can come together.  And that boost in confidence can mean a huge difference in the quality of your training.

Stick it out, it'll come.


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## zDom (Aug 10, 2007)

IMO, this is one of the purposes of "one step sparring."

Pick a technique, practice it in a one-step sparring situation until you can do it fast and smooth in that one-step sparring environment through plenty of repetition. BTW: this doesn't necessarily have to be from a formal stance. You can &#8212; and SHOULD &#8212; do this from a natural fighting stance or even from a neutral "hands at your side" stance.

THEN do some free sparring and look for an opportunity to apply it during that free sparring session. It may take a little bit, or even a few sparring sessions, but I think eventually it will click for you.

Once that is working for you, repeat the process with another technique.

Start by picking techniques you think come naturally to you, that feel good. Once those are working for you, you might try some that are not-so-natural for you to challenge yourself and expand your horizons.


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## morph4me (Aug 10, 2007)

You've got some great advice here. You get over the hurdle by going to class and practicing. Sounds to me like you're thinking too much, the problem with thinking is that you can't react while you think. Allow yourself to feel what's going on and give yourself permission to make mistakes. It's very simple, but it isn't easy. Stick with it, it *will *happen, you've only been training for a year, you're still a beginner.


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## Jdokan (Aug 10, 2007)

Try training with "reaction" techniques....As previously stated....start slow and practice defensively against known attacks at first AND DON'T do set learned techniques...Make something up on the spot.....Start with block and counter then add more counters until you're at a point where you're blocking and throwing several strikes.......add takedowns etc...as you develop....
As you DO get better at this start changing up the attacks....


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## Blotan Hunka (Aug 10, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> First off, don't expect to get techniques to work exactly as they are taught or exactly as they are extracted from the form. Those are taught in an "ideal" phase, as a base from which to work. But you will seldom, or never, get that ideal situation. So adjust your expectations.
> 
> Once you do that, you can start responding to attacks using ideas from the techs and the forms. Not textbook techs, but just the ideas, snippets, bits of several things that come together to answer the current problem. But this still takes time and a lot of practice.
> 
> ...


 
What he said.

The "problem" with many classic arts is the "IF ATTACK A then RESPONSE B" style training. There are specific responses for each possible attack. Take a look at Hicks Law. The more choices you have, the slower you get. Someday, when you are sparring, try throwing ONLY jab's and crosses and maybe 1-2 kicks for ANYTHING that your opponent throws at you. It may not be pretty, but Id bet you will discover that you will feel more effective. After that take a look at your training and see what techniques will work against the most attacks and adjust from there.

Sometimes when working wrist grab defenses or other grabs I will do the "technique" desired, but sometimes I will mix in a simple straight haymaker of a punch right to the face (controlled of course). Just to keep that response in my mind and to show the person working with me what can happen when you take the simple route.

A quote of Bruce Lee goes:

_In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject. Actually, he keeps chiselling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Thus, contrary to other styles, being wise in Jeet Kune-Do doesn't mean adding more; it means to minimize, in other words to hack away the unessential._


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## JBrainard (Aug 10, 2007)

There is *a lot* of good advice here already but I just wanted to put my two cents in. Pick a technique, and then it's repetition, repetition, repetition... Once you get to the point where you can carry on a casual conversation and be applying the technique at the same time (this takes time, but works), then you can move on to another technique. Every once in a while revisit a technique and go through the same exercise. Repeat


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## Adept (Aug 10, 2007)

This is where those old hacks 'alive' and 'resisting' are used.

If you know the techniques already, then you're halfway home. What you need to do is practice them in a safe environment against someone who really isn't going to just let you do it.

For example, you might want to practice some kind of throw. You get your partner, and you say _'I'm going to try to use X throw on you. And I want you to try everything you can to stop me.'_

Thats the key. He (your opponent) is really trying to stop you from applying your technique. He's going to resist, he's going to react, and will very likely do something unexpected. If you're not used to that, you probably won't execute the technique properly.

Thats OK. Thats why it's called practice. You just keep on doing it, until you can get that technique happing for you no matter what your partner does to resist you.

You might want to give adrenaline dump training a go as well. Try going for a 2 mile run, doing 30 push-ups, and then doing the drills. The dryness of mouth, shortness of breath, shaking and slight exhaustion will accurately (enough) mirror the way the body acts under a dump of adrenaline in an emergency situation. If you can control your body and keep your head, and still make your techniques work under those situations, you are doing very well.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 10, 2007)

I tend to do research into a differnit style. Ju-Jitsu works well at first. Then just try and figure out the techniuqes, and see if you can figure out a way to do them from a technique  a you are working on. That works for me. Something else that works for some people is to just have someone attack you when you are doing only one technique. And try, and try, and try, and try again to figure out what the technique could be. 

Don't worry Jade, every one has a weak spot in their training. Mine is sparring, your's is application. Eventually it will work itself out.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks so much for all the great replies. EVERYTHING we train in class has application, right down to the bow-in and warm ups. We do drills, but are not taught that attack X requires technique Y. I almost think that would be easier for me. When we train applying skills to self defense it is never "rehearsed" and it's the spontaneity that kills me. 

They tell me, "just do _anything_", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced". But if I just do _anything _I'm ineffective. It's like, WTF was that??? 

I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!


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## morph4me (Aug 10, 2007)

Maybe you should look at it from a different perspective, the guy attacking you doing it because you just came in and saw him beating on your pick one: husband, son, mother, whatever it takes to continue. Once you have a trigger you can activate to turn on your aggression, you can use it as you need it.


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## Ella (Aug 10, 2007)

You have got a lot of awesome advice from people with many more years of experience and much higher rank than me.

But I do know what has worked for me.

And that is, sheer stubbornness. As long as you don't quit, I think you'll get there in the end. Maybe not as fast as some other people, but I've never heard of an attacker saying, "you might have just broken my arm, but I bet it took you twice as long to learn as that other guy!"

And, quoting my instructors, keep your cup empty and try new things when people give you advice. As long as you don't give up, and keep trying different ways in learning, you'll get there.

Just don't give up on it, because you only lose when you stop fighting.


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## zDom (Aug 10, 2007)

Adept said:


> This is where those old hacks 'alive' and 'resisting' are used.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



That's one of the reasons I like new people coming in, even if they don't stick around very long.

When I did TKD, it was always a great experience to spar brand new guys because you had to be ready for EVERYTHING &#8212; grabbing your leg, low kicking, etc.

A more recent experience in hapkido involved a new student who was roughly 320 pounds, an inch shorter than me, and scared to death to be thrown.

I would come in for a shoulder throw and he would squat down, lean back and resist will all 300+ pounds.

The FIRST time I tried to throw him, I failed. But then I shook off the failure, focused and did throw CORRECTLY and was able to successfully throw him. From that point on, I used him to hone my throwing. Nothing like a resisting partner who outweighs you by 100 pounds to ensure good technique 




Adept said:


> You might want to give adrenaline dump training a go as well. Try going for a 2 mile run, doing 30 push-ups, and then doing the drills. The dryness of mouth, shortness of breath, shaking and slight exhaustion will accurately (enough) mirror the way the body acts under a dump of adrenaline in an emergency situation. If you can control your body and keep your head, and still make your techniques work under those situations, you are doing very well.



This is something we do in hapkido as well on a fairly regular basis, albeit by calisthenics and kicking instead of running.

Working technique while exhausted and struggling to catch your breath is GREAT training.

We got some of that in last night as the last drill in our (second!) Hottest and Hardest Workout of the Year (Tuesday was the first Hottest and Hardest, but Thursday was hotter so we had to do it again).

After doing over 550 abdominal reps, 720 kicks, 200 pushups, and 10 minutes total of deep horseriding stance (no air conditioning; we never use air conditioning), we did some throwing and falling (with squat thrusts in between).


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 10, 2007)

So who signs there rep as just a "+"? It's kinda weird.


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## Ella (Aug 10, 2007)

AHAHA I got that too!

I think its like an A+ or something


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## Marginal (Aug 10, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!


Could just be how you're perceiving the idea of spontaniety. Doing something on reaction doesn't have to mean doing it without thinking. That's the ideal, but it usually takes time to build up that sort of reaction to the point where it becomes natural feeling. I'd say, do what you can, then even if you stop do more after that even if what you throw at 'em seems silly to you. Just get used to the idea of continuing your motion until you do it. 

Also try not to mentally bookmark your perceived failures. It'll just slow you down further while you focus on not repeating a mistake rather than the actual technique you're trying to apply. 

On top of that, watching videos on similar subjects (even MA movies, doesn't really matter as long as similar techniques are involved.) helps me get a better understanding of what's likely to move where and stuff like that.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks so much for all the great replies. EVERYTHING we train in class has application, right down to the bow-in and warm ups. We do drills, but are not taught that attack X requires technique Y. I almost think that would be easier for me. When we train applying skills to self defense it is never "rehearsed" and it's the spontaneity that kills me.
> 
> They tell me, "just do _anything_", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced". But if I just do _anything _I'm ineffective. It's like, WTF was that???
> 
> I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!



JT,

Lots of good advice and ways to try to address your concern.

Your comment about the female versus male aaproach is something you are seeing, so I will talk to that. Yes ther are many guys who have been in fights or sports that require them to have physical contact and with the contact they learn to adapt. i.e. football. The defense calls a play thinking how to address a possible Offense. The offense just so happens to be good against teh called defense, so on the fly each individual may have to adapt.

So yes it is possible that the guys in your class that have had physical training inthe past may seem to get it better than you, but that has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with them. 

I know you have said to visualize some technique and go for it. I bet if these "guys" were asked they have a favorite move that they go to a lot. So you can just pick some technique yourself and try it. Now let us assume it was a good technique for theri move. You get to practice it and feel good. Now let us assume it was a poor technique for that specific move, you get to see why it was. Even work it a few times to understand why it was not the optimum or good move. Understand it and learn from it. 

One can also make the first part of their move to block/pass/shift/move to make sure you are safe  and it wsa done at real time speed, then slow it down to the speed you feel comfortable with and do the rest of the technique.

Now this part may seem real funny to some. While with a trusted partner, I clsoe my eyes so I can "FEEL" the technique as I do it. I know that with my eyes closed they could counter. I know that it is not real, but it happens to be something that helps me to visualize. 

I wish you luck and good training. And Do not compare yourself to others who learn fast or easy. Many of those will give up after a point becuase it wa easy or they do not respect what they have learned. While those whohave taken baby steps the whole way or had to knock down the wall in front of them while others just seemed to step over or around it like there as no problem. Keep at it, and if you enjoy it, it will come. If it becomes too much work and frustration then you might not like it anymore and then one cannot relax and be centered or in the zone or what have you. 

Best wishes


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## Brian King (Aug 11, 2007)

> Now I've been training SPM for a year and same problem.


 
I do not know what SPM is so the terms I use in this reply may not be appropriate but I will try to make them non art specific.



> It's even more frustrating because guys who have much less time in training than I do, don't have any problem with that cross over and it makes me feel like a "dumb girl".


 
_OT*_ this then is a great opportunity to also work on some important personal issues other than the original advice sought in the OP. Frankly these issues may be even more important in the long run and will definitely be more difficult to overcome. 

_*back onto topic_


> They tell me, "just do _anything_", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced". But if I just do _anything _I'm ineffective. It's like, WTF was that???
> 
> I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!


This is a common problem for many people of all sexes. It is even more common for experienced martial artists. Experience is relative of course. 

Some people have a performance anxiety, a fear of failure that blocks them from trying, or even worse self-sabotages their efforts even while they try, reinforcing the anxiety. Often their opinion of themselves sets up this anxiety; you will hear things like I have been training so long it (the solution/movement/technique) should have been obvious or how could I have missed/not seen/screwed that up? They often kick themselves twice, once when screwing up and the second time by reacting to it in an attention seeking (even subconsciously) manner such as cursing or making a face, neither of which helps but instead points out their lack of recognizing that they are not perfect, that they are greedy and they have a very healthy dose of ego that demands instant gratification.

Some people have a problem of analyses paralyze-ation. They are so busy trying to do the perfect movement/technique/series of techniques that their mind gets stuck in the D part of the OODA loop. They are so busy *O*bserving and *O*rientating and trying to get thru the *D*eciding moment, they get so paralyzed in that section trying to make a decision that they never get to the *A*cting part (which is the fun and most rewarding section). The more time spent in any one section sets up a cascading panic of failure and a feeling of having to rush to get thru the deciding method and the sense that the decision must be the absolute correct one, and that there is only time for one.

Some anticipate either the attack or their response to the attack, they anticipate their partners response to their response (chain) and when something other than what they were anticipating happens it throws them into confusion.

Some people store up so much tension (of all types not just physical but also tensions such as mental and spiritual and others) that it, the tension, adds resistance and blocks to their body awareness and movement skills adding to the difficulty, whatever it might be, that they are trying to overcome.

Some people forget to breathe or breathe incorrectly. They might wind up holding their breath sometimes holding it full, or perhaps holding it empty or somewhere in between. Others thru fear or greed inhale too little or too much air forcing them into a gasping method of breathing, draining their body and psyche the air needed to do the work properly.

These are just a few examples of sabotages that we allow ourselves to fall prey to. The solution of course is to discover yourself and to know yourself and do the work necessary to free yourself. 

The above is all well and good, but as a sort of reward to those that may have read this far, here is a very simple technique to get thru any of the above and most other blocks to allow yourself to better work application and sparring drills. 

You will need to trick your mind into being quiet, trick your body into working naturally and free. This is easy to do if you try. While doing the drill, focus your mind on something else. It could be movement, it could be watching the second hand on a clock for every second, it could be tension/relaxation management, and it could be focusing on posture or breathing. For example with breathing, when you start the drill start breathing, nice deep breathing in what ever breathing method your art of choice recommends (like breathing in thru the nose and out thru the mouth). Starts focusing on your breathing right away do not wait until your partner attacks, start focusing on your breathing the very first second as you step onto the floor. No matter what happens, no matter what attack your partner throws at you or you at them your entire mental focus should be on maintaining nice deep breaths from start to finish. Do not think about trying to do this technique or that technique, do not worry what attack your partner is going to use, do not worry about missing or failing, your only worry is breathing deeply and full in and out. Let the/your fighting part happen by its own veracity and it will if you can learn to trust it. To recap, you still do the work, the defending that your art does but rather than thinking about it, grading yourself worrying success or failure, force yourself to instead focus and think about and to be totally aware of your breathing before, during and after the drill. If you have a problem maintaining this focus ask your partner to slow down perhaps even way down and to make each attack separate (think sort of one/three step drills rather than continuous sparring when first trying this) Giving your mind something to occupy itself frees up the rest. It feels like the work becomes automatic sub conscious while the breathing is almost mechanical which is opposite of how most people work. Eventually both become automatic doing what is needed when needed. Forced focus is sort of like a reset switch that temporarily short circuits many of the other blocks.

Good luck and enjoy yourself
Brian King


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 11, 2007)

My god you guys! Everyone has so many excellent takes on this and I can now see what some of my issues are that is making this difficult for me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am really going to work on this, hopefully I will be able to overcome the mental block. I'm sure I will continue to be frustrated in this area, but if I can start making even a little bit of progress I will be encouraged. 

Any more insight on this is greatly appreciated. :asian:


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## kidswarrior (Aug 11, 2007)

Pam, I got to this party late, but hate to see you in turmoil like this, so am going to jump in. Yes, there are many, many good suggestions here. It would be worth culling the thread to pull out what you think will work for you.

*But*. We all learn differently, and I notice many posters giving advice based on what works for them or someone they've known--and that may or may not work for you.

So, here's what I'd suggest. Pick one technique. Yes, I know there are so many it's hard to pick just one. But that may be part of the problem. You can't do all of it at once, so don't let the number of possibilities paralyze you (the old paralysis by analysis ). Instead, this is the time to just choose one at a time, _but use that technique regardless of the type of attack_. You must have a 'good' partner act as attacker, someone you trust. Now here's the key: don't put any restrictions on their attack, other than to mix it up--maybe they'll use a high right punch, maybe a low line kick the next time, maybe a grab the third, etc. *You just do the technique you've intentionally chosen*. Obviously it'll sometimes fail to work, and sometimes be downright comical as you move right into their attack. But that's part of learning and embedding in memory when that technique does and doesn't work--there's no teacher like experience, especially if you add a little pain. :ultracool The times I've broken something due to carelessness, laziness, or fatigue, are lessons that I've learned for life.  Now, you don't want to go so fast or hard that that happens, but you get the idea. Over time, using this with all your techniques, you'll find the half-dozen or so that will be 'yours'--that you know will always work for you, with your mindset, body type, etc. But that takes a few years of practice, so no hurry. Just be encouraged that the time is coming when you'll have that confidence.

If you do try this, please let me know how it works. I'm always trying to get better as an instructor, and have used this in line drills and partner work, to very good effect--so far. Oh, and DON'T COMPARE YOURSELF TO ANYONE ELSE! Chances are, you won't even know them five years from now. Who cares what they think or how 'good' they look.  Think how good you'll look after a few months of this, when they're watching _you_.


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## jks9199 (Aug 11, 2007)

It sounds like part of what's happening is you're getting stuck after the initial response.

First -- start practicing the follow up, every time.  Do your blocking exercise, and add a punch or kick.  When you practice a form -- never stop on the block; carry over to the strike before you stop.

Then -- when you're sparring or practicing spontaneous responses, select one response sequence.  Use that response, and that response only.  For example, use a forward step, block, and strike.  And realize that you're going to get hit some, until you start to get it.


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## still learning (Aug 11, 2007)

Hello, They say it takes about 2,000-3,000 or more,repetitions of the same techniques before it becomes a part of the sub-consious mind, (automatic thinking).

Practicing in class is one thing, under the adrenline (real situtions), stress, is another sitution.  (everyone should try to train under real conditions)..when possible.

Goal is to react without thinking, one needs to be more relax, let your training react by it self (easier said: then to do it!).

They say " best fighters use about 3-4 techniques that works for them."
( Jabs, cross punch, straight kicks, elbows, etc). 

Keep it simple ( your fighing attacks/defense).  In a real fight your mind becomes more narrow thinking- SURVIVAL!

Anybody (white belts too) knows how to fight back....by throwing punches......it takes time to learn the reaction for proper techniques to kick in.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!

Don't focus on your frustrations...look at your strong points!  Build on that!

The best martial artist train harder than anyone else....but they know they can still get better and better (remember most people cannot defend against a false crack!) ..especially when they are not looking!

Enjoy your progess by looking back when you first started....." A tree started growing from one seed....it takes long time before they reach fullness- and yet they still can grow more..."

Your tree (yourself) may grow different from other trees....create your own tree!

In Hawaii ?   Coconut trees are all around us......NUTS  ...become the coconut! ...............Aloha


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 11, 2007)

Well, there's not much I can add that most everyone else hasn't touched upon already, but it does sound like you have the same problem I did when I first started out--I got to thinking about what to do, to the point I tried thinking too much, hence in circles. Wanted to make sure I always did the best possible response for each situation. I wanted to KNOW everything before I TRIED anything.

But it's like one of my heroes once said, "A good plan, now, beats a perfect plan next week". Make it simple: Okay, you just blocked/parried/checked/whatever. Where does it put you? let's say off to one side. If so, where are you in relation to the targets presented? are you stood straight up, or are you crouched somewhat low/they're just insanely tall? 

If the former, you're probably within arm's reach of any target from the ribs on up to the throat/neck/eyes/head where all the high-value targets are. Just pick one. Any one, and MEAN it. 

Grab the head with one hand, the jaw with the other, crank him down by his neck. 
Do, or simulate, an eye gouge and escape. Same with a throat target.
Rake a roundhouse elbow across the ribs. then put yourself out of range.

If the latter, well, your heads might not be on an equal level, but your feet are all standing on the same ground, aren't they? Yes they are. 

Something as simple as a single/double leg tackle, any number of kicks or leg-to-leg sweeps could be used here, play with the ones you can make work, pick one. and MEAN it.

Those are just simple, one step examples. Once you have something like those down, and are used to following through, *then* think about chaining moves together off them. *Then* you can start devoting time to chaining combos together but break out of the hesitation first.

I'm not a Kenpo student, but I find a quote I've heard attributed to Ed Parker very true:

"I'd rather have ten techniques I can fight with, than a hundred techniques that fight me".

You're much better than you think, you just don't know it yet.


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## seasoned (Aug 12, 2007)

Personally specking I found it very hard to match my mind set with the techniques I was learning at the time. I felt that as long as I was doing the techniques solo I could demonstrate that killer instinct that I feel is so vital to Martial Arts. Alone I was a force of one, but with a partner I just could not bring myself to want to hurt anyone. Even in sparring if I felt threatened or got hurt I could not retaliate appropriately. It wasnt until I was able to play a mind game with myself that my training started to take a turn. I needed a reason to fight or strike at someone other then just getting a point. The game I played was a mind conditioning one where I made it a point when I stepped onto the DoJo floor someone had to die, them or me. I made it a personal thing where that person was a threat not only to me but to everything that I held dear to my heart. Now I am not talking about a bad attitude at all, but what I am saying is the DoJo became very serious to me. I pictured in my mind that any partner I had on any given day was a DoJo comrade until we bowed in and then it was life or death. At that moment that particular person was trying to hurt my family and I was the only one that stood between them and my loved ones. With this type of attitude that I was trying to cultivate it became very apparent to any partner that they were in for a ruff time because it was not a game to me. You never want to react with anger or fear but with a focused mind, and with a purpose. The mind set you have in the DoJo should be the same mind set you will defend yourself with. Think about it, if I have one mind set in the DoJo and another in self defense how can I distinguish one from the other. In self defense the bow is done in my mind but the feeling is the same, it is them or me. Nothing done in anger nothing done in fear but when you bow whether in mind or body someone has to die.


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## qi-tah (Aug 13, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks so much for all the great replies. EVERYTHING we train in class has application, right down to the bow-in and warm ups. We do drills, but are not taught that attack X requires technique Y. I almost think that would be easier for me. When we train applying skills to self defense it is never "rehearsed" and it's the spontaneity that kills me.
> 
> They tell me, "just do _anything_", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced". But if I just do _anything _I'm ineffective. It's like, WTF was that???
> 
> I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing. Our style is based on quick, rapid succession of blows. I just.....brain fart completely, and it's killing me dammit!


 
Hey, but you blocked, right? Or you got one strike in... so yr not really "freezing", it's more that you aren't putting combinations together. I have ongoing problems with combos too... i feel that mentally i'm not quick enough to tie up someone who is moving about in a sparring situation. Defend all day long, sure, but inflicting damage is another thing. I found a few things tho that helped me to work on this...

1) Solo drill a limited amount of openings first. (Block to closed side, block to open side is pretty much it for me) Even if all you can do is block and move off line, hey, you aren't being hit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





2) Rehearse a few (about 4-5) variations of combinations to follow up from yr opening. Basic strikes, jab/cross, high/low/knee, cover/palm/elbow etc. Drill these on the bag, shadowbox etc. I like walking and drilling them without stopping my forward movement - making movements smaller and smaller if in public, even to the point where the movement is mainly a shift of weight in yr hips and shoulders or a slight shift of footwork etc. It's amazing how much you can do without using yr arms or being obvious. Try to aim for fluidity and speed rather than power. You can always expand the movements once yr walking alone again. 

3) When it comes to sparring, resign yrself to sparring ugly. It just about always looks like a dog's breakfast, no matter who you are! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you can't get yr combos off due to somthing weird happening, disengage, control yr distance and try again. If you get tied up then go for the nearest soft target, even if it means taking a hit. Getting hit sucks, but it's gonna happen to us all sometime.

4) Review what worked or didn't after you spar. Ask for yr sparring partners feedback. If something isn't working, think about how you can change it to work better for you.

5) Treat it all like the giant laugh that it is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not so serious... it's a game. Practice and rehearse in earnest, then play when sparring. Look at cats playing... they look dopey sometimes too, but the skills they are honing are serious!

Have fun!


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## Cirdan (Aug 13, 2007)

*Do not pick a technique. Pick a target!*


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## Last Fearner (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi Jade,

While you have received many good insights here, I'm going to approach this a little differently. Some have replied by discussing "symptoms" of the problem. Others have identified parts of the problem, and many have given you possible solutions.

I want you to find out exactly what the problem is (not the symptoms, but the actual problem), and what is the cause of the problem. First, I want you to consider your type of personality, and how your brain works (everyone's brain functions differently). You can overcome this challenge in your training; we just need to know what path within your brain to take.

Tell me this, do you find that you are a perfectionist? In other areas of life, do you take a long time to decide on something, then are you very set in your ways - - sticking to your decisions, or are you easily swayed to change your mind?  The answers to questions like this will help to identify how you think, and why your brain functions the way it does.

In order to gain the skills you are looking for, let's break the learning process down into three parts.

1. Learning the technique.
2. Improving your reflexive action.
3. Being able to respond to changing conditions.

First you have to be able to do each individual task (skill or technique), and do it well. This is the area where others have suggested starting slow, repeating thousands of times, and gaining the muscle memory that is required to do the technique quickly, without hesitation, and do it correctly.



Jade Tigress said:


> They tell me, "just do _anything_", "don't think about it, just do", "it doesn't have to be perfect, an application used on the street is not necessarily going to come out exactly as practiced".


 
I am going to give you an analogy here. Some people might tell you "not to think about it - just move fast, react and do anything that comes to mind." This is good training, but it assumes that you have accomplished the first stage of learning the technique thoroughly. If someone were take you to an airport runway, and say, "go jump in the cockpit of that plane and take off" what do you think would happen? They say, "don't think about it, just react and do it quickly." You might be able to scramble and get into the cockpit fast, but if you don't know how to work the controls, you will never get that plane off the ground, or keep it in the air for long. 

In your first post, you said this,

"I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations,"

This would deal with the third stage of being able to respond to changing conditions, but what you said in your second post gave me a little more insight beyond "symptoms" to more of the actual problem.

"EVERYTHING we train in class *has application*, right down to the bow-in and warm ups. We do drills, but *are not taught that attack X requires technique Y.* I almost think *that would be easier for me*. When we train applying skills to self defense *it is never "rehearsed"* and it's the spontaneity that kills me."

I don't want to judge your instructor's approach, but this could be an error in teaching. Not everyone picks up on "spontaneity" as easily as others, and everyone needs to learn the technique first, before it can be done quickly. To simply drop the "rehearsed" part of training because real-life fights are not performed that way, is a mistake some inexperienced instructors make. They are trying to 'jump ahead' to an area of their own training and skill where they think students should be. They forget that either this is not how they got there, or if they did, others might not be able to follow their same path to rapid success. A teacher must learn to teach all students of all learning abilities.

For the first stage of training (learning techniques), you divide your learning process into three parts. The first part is learning how to do the move. The second part is repeating the move slowly to gain brain to muscle memory. The third part is rapid execution. Gradually increase the speed of that one technique until you are forcing your brain to do it without thinking. It becomes a reflex. If you fumble a bit here, don't worry. You can slow it down for a few reps, but go right back to increasing the speed so that you get practice doing it fast. This could take several days or weeks on one technique.

The second stage of your training is improving your reflexive action. It is important to understand here, that you are not trying multiple options with decisions to be made at this point. This is simply, "I know what is coming, I know what I am going to do in response," now do it as soon as you receive the visual cue to move. It is like a simple test of reflex timing where you watch a light bulb. When the bulb lights up, you quickly hit a buzzer button with your hand. You are trying to reduce the amount of reaction time it takes between the visual cue (or audio, in some cases) and the moment your hand reaches the buzzer.



Jade Tigress said:


> I'll do things like block, but not follow up with a strike. Or, I'll stop at one strike instead of continuing.


 
Here is where you move stage two, into a flow of combinations. Pick an attack for your partner to use (IE: middle punch, front kick, grab your wrist or lapel, etc) Use just that one attack for a while then move on to another later. Now choose just one block or initial defense you are going to use. Have your partner repeat the attack several times, first slow - then picking up speed. Do the same initial block or defense that you have chosen, over and over again.

Once you can do that well at fast speed, add a second follow up technique. Repeat the two slowly at first, then pick up speed until you flow quickly from your initial defense to the first counter move without hesitation, *AND* it works on your opponent. After that, keep adding a third, then a fourth follow up attack. Do each step slowly, then faster until it flows before adding another counter-attack.

Once you feel comfortable with a particular sequence of defense combinations to your opponent's attack, keep the same attack, but change your defense. Start all over with just the initial response, then add one follow up technique at a time. Finally, you can move on to changing your opponent's attack to something different, and then begin the process all over again with this new attack.




Jade Tigress said:


> when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:
> 
> 
> How, how, how do I get past this hurdle???


 
Here's how you get past this hurdle. Once you have developed a solid base of information in your brain, learned several options and how to make them work effectively, and gained brain to muscle memory, speed, and reflex of individual techniques and combinations, you are ready to start the transition to spontaneity and improvisational reactions.

An analogy for this stage is like the game of "Whack-a-gopher" (I hope you have seen this arcade game before). Here, little gopher heads pop up out of holes, and you have to whack them back down with a mallet. Often times, players react too slow, get behind the pace, and are whacking empty holes while the next gopher is popping up some place else. This is where quick reflexes mesh with multiple choices.

Some will advocate, in self defense, to train in only a few choices so as not to slow down the decision making process. This is true for those who are not trained properly, but the human brain (even yours) is capable of storing thousands of responses, and recalling them quickly to react to any situation. It is a matter of "additional training" specifically designed to promote quick decision making, and eliminate second guessing.

Considering the gopher game, if you only had two holes with the option of a gopher popping up out of one of the two, it would be relatively easy to react and hit the right one in time. With practice, that would become easier. Then, you add a third hole and one more gopher (or one more option). It might be a little difficult at first, but again, with practice it would become easy.

The idea in this third stage of your training, is to start with only two options, and react quickly to whichever one comes up. You can begin by using the same initial defensive action for one attack, and a second action for the other attack. Then add one counter to each initial response (much like you did in stage two). Whichever of the *two* attacks your opponent chooses to launch, you respond with the one appropriate defense and one counter attack. After that becomes smooth, add a *third* option to your *opponent's* list of possible attacks. Try to respond with just one defense, then one defense and one counter to each attack that comes up. As time goes on (weeks, months) your opponent can add four, five or more attacks until you can respond to virtually anything they throw at you.

It is a step-by-step process that takes time, but the important thing is start at the *first step* (first stage of learning and repeating the technique), then progress gradually through *each* and *every* stage until you can do that stage *effectively*, and *without hesitation*. You will rapidly see your own progress, and others will be impressed.

I hope this helps. If you care to PM me for additional explanation, feel free to do so.

CM D.J. Eisenhart


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## HG1 (Aug 14, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> EDIT BUT when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:
> 
> It's even more frustrating because guys who have much less time in training than I do, don't have any problem with that cross over and it makes me feel like a "dumb girl". No one in class makes me feel that way. It's how I make me feel. I've been told to visualize, to continue practicing, that SPM is a difficult style to learn. I just feel like I will never get it.
> 
> How, how, how do I get past this hurdle???


 
Jade Tigress -
The path of CMA's isn't always a straight line so being frustrated is just part of the learning process. At times it seems like all you do is struggle to bust through one training plateau after another. Don't let it beat you.

Picking a tactic from the running dialog in your head is too slow. When faced with an agressive flurry or multi-level combo your brain has too much to do in too short of time & gets overwhelmed then shuts down.

I'm not that familar with SPM but doesn't it have chi sao sensitivity exercises? That might be a good place to start. Work your attacks/counter attacks by sensing & feeling your opponent.

There is some excellent responses from other MTers! :asian:


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## Steel Tiger (Aug 14, 2007)

I have seen a number of people suffer from this frustration.  LF is right it is about a connection between mind and muscle.  

Some people will say it is best to focus on a small number of techniques but I, personally, know a disturbing number and don't have this problem, which leads me to believe it is not a complication brought about by knowing too many techniques.

Other people will say you should not think about what you are doing, just do it.  I agree with this to an extent.  I would say don't over-think what you are doing, it will paralyze you with choices, and don't pick apart the techniques, that just stops you cold.

Your new art, SPM, is a good one but it is complex.  As a way to practice I would suggest simple spontaneous training.  Have an opponent make an attack and then defend and counterattack with whatever.  Afterward, you can analyze what happened with your training partner.  The techniques may not be perfect but as the training progesses they will become more fluid.


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## Blotan Hunka (Aug 14, 2007)

"Knowing" a large number of techniques is vastly different from being able to apply a large number of them. When you look at actual fighting you will find that even experienced martial artists fall back to a relatively few techniques.


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## Steel Tiger (Aug 14, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> "Knowing" a large number of techniques is vastly different from being able to apply a large number of them. When you look at actual fighting you will find that even experienced martial artists fall back to a relatively few techniques.


 
This is very true, but I think that some people are daunted by shear numbers when they look to apply techniques.  That is part of what I would call over-thinking.  As you say the experienced martial artist maintains an intimate knowledge of a prefered core of techniques.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 15, 2007)

Last Fearner said:


> Hi Jade,
> 
> While you have received many good insights here, I'm going to approach this a little differently. Some have replied by discussing "symptoms" of the problem. Others have identified parts of the problem, and many have given you possible solutions.
> 
> ...



Thank you, and yes, I am a perfectionist, and I do take a long time to decided on things in other areas of my life. Once I do make a decision though, I am not easily swayed, I stick to my choice. 



> In order to gain the skills you are looking for, let's break the learning process down into three parts.
> 
> 1. Learning the technique.
> 2. Improving your reflexive action.
> ...


Yes, that is what our drills are for...muscle memory. Our class format rarely varies, and we don't do self defense exercises every class. 



> I am going to give you an analogy here. Some people might tell you "not to think about it - just move fast, react and do anything that comes to mind." This is good training, but it assumes that you have accomplished the first stage of learning the technique thoroughly. If someone were take you to an airport runway, and say, "go jump in the cockpit of that plane and take off" what do you think would happen? They say, "don't think about it, just react and do it quickly." You might be able to scramble and get into the cockpit fast, but if you don't know how to work the controls, you will never get that plane off the ground, or keep it in the air for long.
> 
> In your first post, you said this,
> 
> ...


Well, the thing about everything we do in class has application is that we are training self defense in all the moves we do. I am shown how every single thing applies to self defense. We do drill after drill after drill, why can't I pull out a technique from our drills, or warm-ups, or whatever? It's the same strike. My instructors have been teaching for many, many years, and like I said, students with less time in are  *getting* this. It's like everything I learned so far flies out the window. 




> For the first stage of training (learning techniques), you divide your learning process into three parts. The first part is learning how to do the move. The second part is repeating the move slowly to gain brain to muscle memory. The third part is rapid execution. Gradually increase the speed of that one technique until you are forcing your brain to do it without thinking. It becomes a reflex. If you fumble a bit here, don't worry. You can slow it down for a few reps, but go right back to increasing the speed so that you get practice doing it fast. This could take several days or weeks on one technique.
> 
> The second stage of your training is improving your reflexive action. It is important to understand here, that you are not trying multiple options with decisions to be made at this point. This is simply, "I know what is coming, I know what I am going to do in response," now do it as soon as you receive the visual cue to move. It is like a simple test of reflex timing where you watch a light bulb. When the bulb lights up, you quickly hit a buzzer button with your hand. You are trying to reduce the amount of reaction time it takes between the visual cue (or audio, in some cases) and the moment your hand reaches the buzzer.
> 
> ...


Very good ideas. Thanks. 





> Here's how you get past this hurdle. Once you have developed a solid base of information in your brain, learned several options and how to make them work effectively, and gained brain to muscle memory, speed, and reflex of individual techniques and combinations, you are ready to start the transition to spontaneity and improvisational reactions.
> 
> An analogy for this stage is like the game of "Whack-a-gopher" (I hope you have seen this arcade game before). Here, little gopher heads pop up out of holes, and you have to whack them back down with a mallet. Often times, players react too slow, get behind the pace, and are whacking empty holes while the next gopher is popping up some place else. This is where quick reflexes mesh with multiple choices.
> 
> ...


Excellent analogy. I can relate. 




> The idea in this third stage of your training, is to start with only two options, and react quickly to whichever one comes up. You can begin by using the same initial defensive action for one attack, and a second action for the other attack. Then add one counter to each initial response (much like you did in stage two). Whichever of the *two* attacks your opponent chooses to launch, you respond with the one appropriate defense and one counter attack. After that becomes smooth, add a *third* option to your *opponent's* list of possible attacks. Try to respond with just one defense, then one defense and one counter to each attack that comes up. As time goes on (weeks, months) your opponent can add four, five or more attacks until you can respond to virtually anything they throw at you.
> 
> It is a step-by-step process that takes time, but the important thing is start at the *first step* (first stage of learning and repeating the technique), then progress gradually through *each* and *every* stage until you can do that stage *effectively*, and *without hesitation*. You will rapidly see your own progress, and others will be impressed.
> 
> ...


It does help, and I appreciate it very much. :asian:



			
				HG1 said:
			
		

> Jade Tigress -
> 
> I'm not that familar with SPM but doesn't it have chi sao sensitivity exercises? That might be a good place to start. Work your attacks/counter attacks by sensing & feeling your opponent.



Yes, we do, and I am my training at this rank is taking a more focused approach on that. I love the chi sao drills. 

Funny story, my boss and I were on lunch break at a burger place. (My boss is also a personal friend so the relationship is a bit different. We hang out outside of work. He was my friend first and then gave me a job.) So anyway, we're standing in line to place our order and he starts giving me ****...kind of getting in my face with his hand to bug me while I was trying to see what I wanted to order. I wasn't paying attention to him, I was looking at the menu and just put my arm up, stuck to him, and kept him away from my face as he kept trying to move around it. I didn't even realize what I was doing until he said, "Stop pulling that kung fu stuff on me." Then it hit me, what I was doing. 



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> I have seen a number of people suffer from this frustration.  LF is right it is about a connection between mind and muscle.
> 
> Some people will say it is best to focus on a small number of techniques but I, personally, know a disturbing number and don't have this problem, which leads me to believe it is not a complication brought about by knowing too many techniques.
> 
> ...



Glad to know I'm not alone! lol
Thanks for your input. :asian:


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## kidswarrior (Aug 15, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> Funny story, my boss and I were on lunch break at a burger place. (My boss is also a personal friend so the relationship is a bit different. We hang out outside of work. He was my friend first and then gave me a job.) So anyway, we're standing in line to place our order and he starts giving me ****...kind of getting in my face with his hand to bug me while I was trying to see what I wanted to order. I wasn't paying attention to him, I was looking at the menu and just put my arm up, stuck to him, and kept him away from my face as he kept trying to move around it. I didn't even realize what I was doing until he said, "Stop pulling that kung fu stuff on me." Then it hit me, what I was doing.


So it _is_ sticking (pardon the pun), even though you aren't feeling the progress. 

Also, I have to say that after years of MAs, when doing a 'live' simulation, my response almost never looks like any preset technique. It's just some ugly combination of things I've learned and practiced hundreds (thousands?) of times, depending on what the situation calls for, what he gives me, and how I can best attack the attack. When the attack is neutralized, I stop, even though a canned technique may call for continuing on for several more strikes or whatever. It sounds like you're pretty close to doing this also. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Maybe just really high expectations of yourself...?


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## Langenschwert (Aug 15, 2007)

Some good reaction drills might help.  Start off with either an attack or defence explore.  Give your opponent two options.  One of these should be "do nothing at all".

For example, since I do sword arts, I'll use a simple strike:

I strike at my opponent.  Ideally, he'd do nothing and I hit him (Option 1).  Best case scenario.  Second Option: I strike and he parries badly, off to the side without being a threat to me.  I disengage my blade before the parry hits my blade, and attack his other side, hitting.  Third option: I strike at him, and he parries well, threatening me.  I continue with the attack and bind his blade.  In a real combat, the bind would result in other techniques of course, but one thing at a time.

The same can be done practicing defence.  You should defend against an all out attack (Option 1) as normal.  Option Two: you defend but he counters your defence.  You counter that counter.  Or something to that effect.  The key is to enter these techniques into muscle memory through asinine amounts of repetition.

Also, when sparring, go in with a PLAN.  When I spar, I use the advice of the so-called Dobringer manuscript.  It says when you close with someone, have a finished piece in your mind and say to your self "This is what I intend".  And make it happen.

For example: I face my opponent and attack with a cut to his head.  I assume that he will do nothing, though I am aware of what he _could_ do.  I have one or two things planned that I do if he actually defends well.  I have one move for if he binds hard, and one for if he binds soft.  That's all you need for now.  As you get more "plans" made up, you will become more adaptive.  Don't change the PLAN until your opponent makes that plan inoperative.  After all, if he's not making it inoperative, then the plan is working. 

Good luck.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Sukerkin (Aug 16, 2007)

*Kds*, another superb last sentence in one of your posts :tup:.

Expectations are always those things that can both drive or discourage us depending on how the mood drops.  Without them, we'd never strive to achieve anything but it's always a good thing to step back and re-evaluate them on occaision so that they don't trip us up.


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## Mr. E (Aug 16, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:




You are not alone. You just realize the problem while others have not had a chance to realize they have problems.

There is now a huge amount of research that shows that different parts of the brain activate under stress. When you reach a point where you are afraid for you life, your body and mind swith from the day to day ways of doing things to another system.

So if you train with your day to day mind, your emergency system will react as if had no training because it has not.

Sound like a reason for what you are going through?

The key is to increase your fear and apprehension in training. Note, *I am not talking about resistance.* You can be quite scared without anyone laying a hand on you. But if you train in what you do when you are mentally stressed, you will find the skills are more easily availible when you are in a stressfull situation.

The amazing thing is that the old way of doing things seem to have done this type of training. Training in the old days sometimes ended up with the student getting injured and sometimes deaths happened. They trained under stress and as a by- product learned how to deal with stress. But much of this type of training was thrown out in modern times in the name of safety. The more I look at the new research and the way things are done in the traditional schools in Asia I have visited, the more they seem to reflect each other.

I started a thread over in the general self defense section about a drill that introduces people to this type of stress. You should look into it. Here it is. I hope it, and the other drills posted by the same person, will be of help.


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## kidswarrior (Aug 17, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> *Kds*, another superb last sentence in one of your posts :tup:.
> 
> Expectations are always those things that can both drive or discourage us depending on how the mood drops.  Without them, we'd never strive to achieve anything but it's always a good thing to step back and re-evaluate them on occaision so that they don't trip us up.


Yes, I see we're eye to eye on *JT*'s 'problem' (viz, 'I'm very, very good, but not yet perfect.'). Pam, _enjoy_...! You proved standing in the lunch line with your boss how far you've come. I'm sure everyone but you knows it.  :asian:


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 17, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Yes, I see we're eye to eye on *JT*'s 'problem' (viz, 'I'm very, very good, but not yet perfect.'). Pam, _enjoy_...! You proved standing in the lunch line with your boss how far you've come. I'm sure everyone but you knows it.  :asian:




Thank you Mark. :asian:

Unfortunately, I didn't get to train at all this week. Been sick as a dog. 
Finally started feeling somewhat human yesterday, and today I think I'm almost back to normal! (well...normal for me...heh)


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## seasoned (Aug 22, 2007)

Mr. E said:


> You are not alone. You just realize the problem while others have not had a chance to realize they have problems.
> 
> There is now a huge amount of research that shows that different parts of the brain activate under stress. When you reach a point where you are afraid for you life, your body and mind swith from the day to day ways of doing things to another system.
> 
> ...



Sounds like reality based training to me. It is done in the military and law enforcement. You have to train as close to the real deal as possible in mind and body. You will not graduate the academy or boot camp if you freeze or cant remember what you have learnt. The same goes for any dojo, train like it was real so that your everyday mind and your Karate mind are on the same page. Train like it was real and your life depended on it and if and when the time comes to use it, it will be there.


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## Brian King (Nov 12, 2007)

Any updates and new insights JT? How goes the training?

Brian


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## kidswarrior (Nov 12, 2007)

Pam, have you been following the thread started by Exile on reaching plateaus in our training? http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56490 Maybe there's something there that you can use? Anyway, hope it's going better for you. :highfive:


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## Sukerkin (Nov 12, 2007)

- I was just going to suggest the very same thing, my friend :rei:.


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## kidswarrior (Nov 12, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> - I was just going to suggest the very same thing, my friend :rei:.


Oh, I count it a lucky day when I can arrive at a mental solution ahead of you, Mark. It's not often, and even then only by moments.  :asian:


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## Jade Tigress (Nov 12, 2007)

Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.


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## DArnold (Nov 15, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Here we go again, I posted a couple years ago about the same problem when I was training Sil Lum. Now I've been training SPM for a year and same problem.
> 
> I can learn the forms, learn the techniques, etc., BUT when it comes down to _applying _the techniques off the cuff in self defense situations, I just can't do it! Total brain freeze, hesitation, I just can't make the cross-over in my brain! :wah:
> 
> ...


 
Some never get over it.
Sometimes it is the mental state you are in at the time.
I like the "Kato" from the Pink Panther suggestion!

I hope this is not the end-all-be-all of why you train?


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## seasoned (Nov 16, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.


 
Pam, it sounds like you may have answered your own question. It could very well be a class thing.  All the ingredients are within you to accomplish all your Martial Arts goals. (1) You love your training. (2) If need be you would fight like crazy. (3) Sense of capability. I feel that if you continue to follow your path that any training issues you are having with time will work out for you. "We grow from frustration".


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## Jade Tigress (Nov 16, 2007)

DArnold said:


> Some never get over it.
> Sometimes it is the mental state you are in at the time.
> I like the "Kato" from the Pink Panther suggestion!
> 
> I hope this is not the end-all-be-all of why you train?



I do believe my mental state may contribute to it, I've had some personal issues going on for quite some time, and I also have a hard time separating the friends from enemies thing. I love Kato from the Pink Panther, named my crazy cat after him.  

Self-defense is not the end-all-be-all of why I train, but I have to be able to demonstrate self-defense for testing, another one of which I have coming up in a couple months. 



			
				seasoned said:
			
		

> Pam, it sounds like you may have answered your own question. It could very well be a &#8220;class&#8221; thing.  All the ingredients are within you to accomplish all your Martial Arts goals. (1) You love your training. (2) If need be you would fight like crazy. (3) Sense of capability. I feel that if you continue to follow your path that any training issues you are having with time will work out for you. "We grow from frustration".



Thank you, these things are true. I appreciate the encouragement. :asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 16, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.


 
How long have you trained SPM now?


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## Jade Tigress (Nov 16, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> How long have you trained SPM now?



I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 16, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.


 

Then don't worry about it, its CMA. Relax and it will come, tense up and get frustrated it will take longer.

They say (whoever they are) 
Xingyi takes about 2 to 2.5 years to *begin* to use it properly

Taiji takes about 6 years to *begin* to use it properly

Wing Chun you can start to use it after about a year. But that is start to use it not be proficient with it

And this is based on daily training so cut yourself some slack

SPM looked to me, in my limited experience with it, to be a bit complicated so relax, take it easy and it will come.


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## kidswarrior (Nov 17, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy.


Ya know, this brings to mind something I usually only think of in my professional context (as a  teacher). For a long time I've believed there are several 'types' or categories of learners. Without boring the daylights out of you, will just say that two of the four in the model I use rely on _authenticity _to open the path to learning. In other words, if there's no real, authentic reason right at that moment to learn or demonstrate the learning, then these people just shut down. 

I happen to be one of those myself. Hence, this post. In contrast to a hairsplitting debate thread (such as, what kind of belt should one wear ), it's a real (authentic) problem that needs a real solution. And right away wouldn't be too soon, huh?  So maybe the class 'fighting' is too simulated for you. Honestly, I have always felt that way about sparring (which doesn't help you with your class performance, but hey, maybe if it sheds a little light...?) 



> ...faced with a real life situation...my technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.


Probably true for all of us.  But then again, as you imply, the outcome would not be in much doubt. You'd have an authentic reason to do well.


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## Cruentus (Nov 17, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, I continue to love my training, but this is still my biggest weakness. I'm not quite sure how to overcome it. I wonder if it's a "class" thing. I feel if I were faced with a real life situation I would fight like crazy. My technique would probably suck, but I feel I at least have some sense of capability.



Just to chime in...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I don't know the origination of that quote, but I love it.

You probably have to explore the idea that you might need a different training method altogether. This is a difficult idea to explore, because I am sure you enjoy what you are doing in class and the people you train with, even if it isn't getting you the results you want. But this is something that has to be considered.

I won't start a debate on your thread as to what training methods might be superior over others. But I will say that basic learning theory dictates that different people respond to different teaching methods and training environments.

Some can conceptualize forms very well, for example, and translate dead patterns in the air to an actual interaction with a partner. Some have difficulty with this. Perhaps supplementing your training with a different training method then what your class is offering will help you to make some connections.

The other thing to consider is that perhaps, to be blunt, that some of the stuff your trying to do just doesn't work, period. I see that all the time. I often see the misconception that a particularly difficult or complex move is perceived to work for some people who really train hard at it, implying that if you train hard at it that you can get it to work for you. When, the reality is, it doesn't work for ANYONE against a resisting opponent, even if an instructor was able to convince himself and others and make it look like it works by demoing it on a compliant training partner. Anyway, no one likes to consider that perhaps some parts of their forms or art are not effective, but one always has to do so for the sake of objectivity.

Anyway, best of luck to you. Getting to the bottom of these issues takes a lot of personal honesty, self-searching, and a willingness to betray desires for the sake of objectivity. This can be difficult for some. I wish I could offer a magic totem or few words of encouragement that would provide all the answers, but there is nothing that will do that for you. But, if you are having fun, and learning something about yourself, then it is all worth it, right?

Have a good one...


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## IcemanSK (Nov 17, 2007)

Hey Jade. A lot of folks have given great advice. The only thing I want to add is to know that it's not a hurdle you cannot make or a problem with you (or your instructor for that matter). Everyone has a way they learn better than other ways. Perhaps the way you've been taught isn't a way that clicks with you. That's ok. A lot of folks here have suggested other great ways of trying the techniques that may click with you. As instructors, we tend to teach in a way we were taught &/or in the way we learn.

I know you'll "get it" because you love it so much.


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## bluemtn (Nov 17, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I started in July '06, so a little over a year. I attend class twice a week, and, I'm sorry to say, don't have much time for training on my own in between classes.


 

Well, you have only been doing SPM for just over a year...  I found (and still do at some points find) it hard to do certain techniques I'm taught.  I just do what's natural for me.  For example, I recently took up Aikido.  You can only imagine how hard it is for me to not just automatically do an arm bar, a hard block (TKD seeping through), or some sweep...  My point is, it's something that'll not be easy to work through, but be persistent!  Can you start off kind of slow, just so you can get the feel of the moves that you need to execute?


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## Jade Tigress (Nov 18, 2007)

This style is very difficult to learn for anyone, so I'm not discouraged, just frustrated because I want to be good NOW...lol. But I continue to improve, so that's progress.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 18, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> I want to be good NOW...lol.


 
That's normal.



Jade Tigress said:


> But I continue to improve, so that's progress.


 
That's CMA


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## Jeff Harvey (Dec 2, 2007)

Two things, you need to practice with a partner who is commiting to the attack, and you need to narrow down the techniques you are practicing.  Instead of trying to pull a technique out of 100 techs,  focus on 15 that vary in what attack the technique is used against, then at least you'll have built enough muscle memory on those techniques to launch into them without thinking.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 2, 2007)

Jeff Harvey said:


> Two things, you need to practice with a partner who is commiting to the attack, and you need to narrow down the techniques you are practicing.  Instead of trying to pull a technique out of 100 techs,  focus on 15 that vary in what attack the technique is used against, then at least you'll have built enough muscle memory on those techniques to launch into them without thinking.



Thanks Jeff. It's totally me, my partners are committed to the attack. It's just this mental block that I have. It's not automatic for me yet so I have to go slow and think about it. Then I overthink it...I think.  It does bother me though, that I can't seem to overcome it. At least not yet. *sigh*


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 2, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Then I overthink it...I think.  It does bother me though, that I can't seem to overcome it.


 
And then one day you will be in class and going through all of the same stuff and when class is over and you are leavening you will realize it all worked. And you did not realize this earlier because you were not thinking about it at all.... just training.


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## Sukerkin (Dec 2, 2007)

Good job I read back a few posts before I blundered in, otherwise I would've redundantly repeated what others have already said :lol:.

I was going to ask how long you'd been training in the style and that perhaps you were holding yourself to too rigid a standard too soon but, as noted, a quick profile peek and post read showed that that ground'd already been covered.

All I can elaborate with is that I've enthusiastically been training in MJER for about five years now, have a nice Nidan certificate on the wall and *still* get things wrong .  It's an endless path, so, even when you can't see any improvements happening, keep 'polishing the mirror'.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 2, 2007)

ok I skipped 5 pages of answers but I must ask 
How many fights have you ever been in? how many times have you had to use your knowledge be it martial art or street to get out of a situation?
Most guys have been a few fights sometime in their life and some how that experience carries over to there training even if they do not know it.
Keep studying girl, it will come in time.


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## tellner (Dec 2, 2007)

There's been some very good advice here. I'd like to add one very important observation to it.

If you're not being taught how to apply what they're teaching you the fault is in the teachers, not you. 

It sounds like the teaching focuses on memorization and performance, not application. This is a common problem with martial arts classes. "How" gets subordinated to "What", and progress is measured by how many things you have learned. There is a huge list of forms and techniques which are supposed to work for specific situations. The term that my (extremely classical Old School martial arts) teacher uses for this is "Organized Despair". I'd guess that they're giving you a lot of material, probably too much.

Now, as to what to do about it...

A lot of the advice like "be spontaneous" and "visualize when you practice" is very good. But it's putting the cart before the horse. Spontaneity within a style comes when you have started to internalize, not just memorize, the material. "Casual competence" has to come _after _competence. In the sports training world visualization works best when you have the feel for what you are visualizing. 

Start with one form or set of movements that you can do well without having to think too much. Do whatever else they tell you to in class, but concentrate on this one. By preference it should be pretty small and self contained with simple movements. When you're working on applying the material just pick from that one. If necessary, just pick one or two moves from the group and use them. If they're good root movements you will be able to apply them in many different ways. With fewer things to think about you won't overthink as much. And you'll be able to actually use what you're learning.

It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class. 

Don't worry about getting hit. Being hit in practice is good as long as you learn from it. The only way you learn to make it work is by finding out what does and doesn't work.

Take things as slow as you need to to do them right and get them to work. Don't be afraid to do more with less. Speed, resistance and difficulty should be in a constant three-legged race with no single one of them getting ahead of the others.


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## Sukerkin (Dec 2, 2007)

Superbly expressed, *Tellner* :rei:.


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## jks9199 (Dec 2, 2007)

tellner said:


> Start with one form or set of movements that you can do well without having to think too much. Do whatever else they tell you to in class, but concentrate on this one. By preference it should be pretty small and self contained with simple movements. When you're working on applying the material just pick from that one. If necessary, just pick one or two moves from the group and use them. If they're good root movements you will be able to apply them in many different ways. With fewer things to think about you won't overthink as much. And you'll be able to actually use what you're learning.


 
Great advice.  I've been taught that, under pressure, the mind will go blank.  (I've proven this one!)  Out of the hundreds or thousands of techniques that a master knows, he's doing incredibly well if, under pressure, he can remember three.  (I've impressed myself remembering ONE thing under pressure!)

And that it's not how much you know -- it's what you can think of IN TIME that counts!  

Limiting your focus to a few techniques lets you really concentrate on getting them to a usable level, under pressure.



> It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class.


 
Let me guess... He's only saying it 2 out of three classes now?:wink2:   I know that's how it goes for me!


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## arnisador (Dec 2, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks Jeff. It's totally me, my partners are committed to the attack. It's just this mental block that I have. It's not automatic for me yet so I have to go slow and think about it. Then I overthink it...



A well-known BJJ instructor has said that the hardest people to teach are strong people, as they tend to use their strength rather than technique, and smart people, because they over-think it rather than just letting it come naturally. I think it's not necessarily 'smart' as much as how organized one is in how one approaches life. The more organized and careful you are, the harder it is to "just react" without a plan.

The way to get over it is to practice practice practice. Then, two things: First, in sparring or self-defense scenarios, pick _*one technique*_ (or a small class of related and similar techniques) and try to get that in. Use the same one for a few weeks. Yes, people will figure out you're trying to use it...but like tying your right hand behind your back to strengthen your left hand, this will give you a specific plan and also force you to find a way to make it work. Be prepared for a few frustrating weeks before it happens! After it starts coming, add a second technique. If you know you're trying to find the opening for either a front kick to the solar plexus or a ridge-hand to the jaw, you'll see those openings more easily.

Second, training to the point of (near-)exhaustion can help bring out the spontaneity because you're _just too tired to think about it_ and it just happens. But this can only be successful after you've done many many many repetitions of the movements.

Speaking with another instructor or senior student, or going to a seminar, can help. It's amazing what hearing "think of this technique like this" can do for you. I remember having much trouble with a JKD technique until another JKD instructor, from a different lineage (whom I met via this web site, actually), pointed out that it was precisely the same as a FMA technique. I hadn't seen it! After that I was all over that technique. Getting a different point of view on some of the core material can really help. It doesn't mean anything negative about your current instructor--it just helps sometimes to see these things from another angle.

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure some of this has already been mentioned.


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## frownland (Dec 3, 2007)

There doesn't seem to be any replies from other SPMers, so I thought  I'd poke my nose in. I've now got close to 5 years in Chow Gar SPM, and the advice I have is along similar lines to this:



Xue Sheng said:


> They say (whoever they are)
> Xingyi takes about 2 to 2.5 years to *begin* to use it properly
> 
> Taiji takes about 6 years to *begin* to use it properly
> ...



After 5 years, I'm just *beginning* to use SPM properly. 

After less than 2 years, well ahhhhh.... just keep practicing. The techniques and forms need to become part of you (others have expressed this better than I could.) 

Train, train, train, and eventually, even when you are repeating static drills, unexpected techniques  will _appear._ You may not be able to name them, or even repeat them, but they _appear.

_In the meantime, when you're under pressure to produce something, concentrate on maintaining the right _shape, _the right _structure_, and good _stance. 

_I disagree with the idea of "visualising", for whatever that's worth. Make contact, and _feel_ for the technique. I believe SPM should be considered an "internal" style (define that as you please).

Also, do *not* compare yourself with those faster learners who make you feel like a "dumb girl". There's nothing to be gained there.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 3, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> ok I skipped 5 pages of answers but I must ask
> How many fights have you ever been in? how many times have you had to use your knowledge be it martial art or street to get out of a situation?
> Most guys have been a few fights sometime in their life and some how that experience carries over to there training even if they do not know it.
> Keep studying girl, it will come in time.



Thanks Sheldon. I've been in one fight, when I was 16, lol, and it wasn't a fight I was committed to, but rather pushed to. In that case, I knew it was either hit her first or get hit. So I hit her first. I pulled it, but she got the point, and a nice welt on her face to remember it by, and that was that. But you can't really count it as a fight. 




			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> A well-known BJJ instructor has said that the hardest people to teach are strong people, as they tend to use their strength rather than technique, and smart people, because they over-think it rather than just letting it come naturally. I think it's not necessarily 'smart' as much as how organized one is in how one approaches life. The more organized and careful you are, the harder it is to "just react" without a plan.



This is part of the problem I'm sure, because I am a very organized person, I like to have a plan and think everything out. 



			
				tellner said:
			
		

> There's been some very good advice here. I'd like to add one very important observation to it.
> 
> If you're not being taught how to apply what they're teaching you the fault is in the teachers, not you. It sounds like the teaching focuses on memorization and performance, not application. This is a common problem with martial arts classes. "How" gets subordinated to "What", and progress is measured by how many things you have learned. There is a huge list of forms and techniques which are supposed to work for specific situations. The term that my (extremely classical Old School martial arts) teacher uses for this is "Organized Despair". I'd guess that they're giving you a lot of material, probably too much.



This is what contributes to my frustration because I AM being taught how to apply what they're teaching and I'm taught very well. My instructors are patient continually come up with various ways to teach each student, I have no complaints in that regard. It's not too much material, material is given in very slow progressive steps. 



			
				tellner said:
			
		

> It's easy to say "Don't think" and "Relax". It's a lot harder to do it. It was eight or nine years before Guru Plinck stopped saying "Todd, relax" every single class.
> 
> Don't worry about getting hit. Being hit in practice is good as long as you learn from it. The only way you learn to make it work is by finding out what does and doesn't work.
> 
> Take things as slow as you need to to do them right and get them to work. Don't be afraid to do more with less. Speed, resistance and difficulty should be in a constant three-legged race with no single one of them getting ahead of the others.



Lol, yeah, I need to relax, I do tense up, and I hear "relax" alot. As far as getting hit, I'm not afraid to get hit in training, I've been hit plenty while training, not clobbered or anything, but the attacks are committed so if I don't block it I feel it. My problem comes less with blocking and more with following up with my own strike. 



			
				frownland said:
			
		

> There doesn't seem to be any replies from other SPMers, so I thought I'd poke my nose in. I've now got close to 5 years in Chow Gar SPM, and the advice I have is along similar lines to this:
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Xue Sheng*
> ...



You're hitting the nail on the head here. Fact of the matter is, this is a very hard style to learn, and that's the reason a lot of people don't stick with it. It takes a looooong time to learn, and I know that, I do compare myself to the guys, it just seems to come easier for them, therefore they tend to go faster while I'm like, I need to slow down. And the instructors will tell them to slow down, but they don't like it, they want to go fast. So...pity the man that has to train with me, lol! 

Thanks again everyone for all the excellent advice, I won't give up, I'm stubborn that way.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 3, 2007)

Just keep going Jade and it will come in time.  The more you practice the more you will relax and in the moment it will just happen.  Good luck!


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 13, 2007)

Crap. I just found out I'm testing the 3rd week of January. I am not prepared. I have one instructor who teaches on Monday's and one who teaches on Wednesday's. I was talking to them about this. Both came to the conclusion that I am over thinking things. And I am. They give me great suggestions to overcome it, you all have given me great suggestions to overcome it. But....I can't! :vu:

As if testing isn't nerve-racking enough, now I have to worry about this portion of the test, and performing well in front of one of the head instructors with a video camera rolling. I'm doomed.

I am trying to visualize, I have all the techniques necessary to do well, I have great instructors and training partners. There's no excuse dammit. If I wasn't so damn stubborn I'd just give up. But that's not me. My goal is to become proficient in this style. I WILL DO IT DAMMIT!!! ... but I'm worried about testing. I'd feel better if someone else were having the same problem, but this is a problem for only me. *sigh* 

In my previous style, we had an *if A is thrown, you do B*, and I could get that. But in reality, that is not how fights occur. You don't know what's coming and you have to be prepared to use the various techniques you have on the spur of the moment. What if someone throws A, you do B, and they can counter it? Then what? That is not realistic training to me. Easier yes, but not really preparing you for any scenerio. 

I'm trying to go through my notes and choose 2 or 3 techniques for each possible attack so I have some sort of "plan". Yeah, I'll still be thinking rather than reacting, but, it's a start. 

Wish me luck, I need it.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2007)

I hate to go all Bruce Lee on you here but Dont thinkdo

Stop trying to figure out how to respond, stop trying to figure out 2 or 3 responses to an attack (attacks are way to fluid to look at them as something stagnant that you can prepare a specific response for), Stop thinking about it at all as a physical application to a choreographed attack. Stop thinking about it

Train, train and when you are done train some more, when you are not training with a sifu think about how the forms and movements make you feel when done correctly and DO NOT stress over PERFECTION. Perfection is a myth. Just think about movement and flow not they throw this punch I do this and then they go here or my foot really needs to be here at a 45 degree angle 

Why do you train? To get rank to impress others I sincerely hope not. 

What is the worse possible thing that can happen in this test?

If you do not pass you will get thrown out of class. doubtful
If you do not pass you will be beaten also not likely

At worst you will test again at some later date. And all that means is that you were not ready or not suppose to get that rank at this time. If you truly want to understand the style you train this can actually be a good thing. Take the time is necessary this is not a race you are not competing against anyone in the class but yourself.

But, if you relax, train and STOP thinking so much about every little detail and stop stressing out over looking bad in front of others as well you will do fine. You are SUPPOSE to make mistakes in class because then they get corrected by your Sifu so you do not make them outside of class should you ever need to use any of this outside of class.

I mess up in front of my sifu all the time and to be honest I truly and happy when I do because that is when I learn the most. Do push hands with sifu, get knocked on my butt and I really learn an awful lot there both it technique and history (believe it or not). Make a mistake in a form in front of Sifu and I am the first to realize the mistake (or at least that is what I tell myself) and when sifu corrects me I learn and likely never make that mistake again. When he stops correcting it is a very bad thing.

If you did everything perfectly you would not be there learning, training and testing.


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## Sukerkin (Dec 13, 2007)

Sound words, *Xue*.  A hefty part of the process of any martial art is knowing when you didn't do it 'right' and learning why that was so.  Another facet is realising that you seldom do any techique properly - if I get one cut close-to-perfect in a three hour session I'm a happy man .


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## Cirdan (Dec 13, 2007)

Jade, I think your focus is too much inward while it should be on your opponent. If you don`t already do so I advice you to spend some time beating the crap out of a bag or pads. Put four wavemasters in a square around you and spend one minute rounds throwing everything you got at them in rapid series of strikes. You can also use four friends holding large pads that can be as agressive as needed pushing etc. This will teach you to focus on the target and string techniques together.


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## Kacey (Dec 13, 2007)

Jade, if you went into a test _knowing_ you would pass, it wouldn't be a test - it would be a demonstration.  You need to get more practice (I know - in _what_ free time) with as many different partners as possible - and they need to attack you so that you _have to_ react.  There's no other way to train reaction.

Just remember, your instructors wouldn't let you test if you couldn't pass - that doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that you're guaranteed to pass, just that you're able to - and testing is designed, and intended, to be a high stress situation, to see how students respond when under stress - keep that in mind when you're freaking out.


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## IcemanSK (Dec 13, 2007)

I laughed when I read what Xue said, but then it reminded me of something. When I was kickboxing I'd get really nervous when sparring. The ring is basically a stage: THAT idea never helped.

My trainer used to tell me something I thought was strange, but now I understand it. He used to say to me, "your problem is that you're smart. You get in the ring & you start thinking instead of fighting. You're thinkin' of doing x,y, & z. Don't think, just fight. Like the movie "Bull Durham: Don't think, just pitch." I had to learn to relax (a lot), stop thinking & just fight.

Pam, maybe that's an issue for you, too. Especially if your former training said, "if A happens, do B." Try to relax. After all, it's fun:boing1:.


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## Steel Tiger (Dec 13, 2007)

Kasey is exactly right.  You wouldn't be testing if somebody didn't think you were ready.

Being nervous about a test is fine, but worried about it will undo all your good work.  I think you need to step back from it for a while and just relax.  From what you have said you've got the knowledge so I suggest you just train it without any thought of why you are training it.

My teacher's school is at a university so I have seen many people who are trained to analyse and examine things in detail doing martial arts.  Their greatest hurdle was their mental training.  They pulled everything apart and were overwhelmed by the techniques.  Detailed analysis is the death of technique.  But I think you know that already.  I also think you know the techniques and have done them before, but the test has made you start to analyse them on too fine a level.  That is why I say you need to step back and just train.

What is it they say about plans?  The first casualty in combat, isn't it?  You've done all the stuff, its in your head, and its getting into your arms and legs.  A plan is actually going to limit how you can respond.  It will focus your mind, but not in a good way.  One aspect of the test is to evaluate your breadth of learning and a plan of operation is going to restrict that demonstration.  I tell my students to apply the concept of Wu Wei - doing without doing.  Go in with a really broad plan like "I'm going to be aggressive" or "I'm going to counterattack" and the rest will come.

The only other thing I can say is good luck.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 13, 2007)

You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for the great advice. Xue asked why I train. Well, it's to be able to defend, which is why this is so frustrating for me. It's my main goal and my biggest weakness. 

I hear over and over again, "don't think, just do". I don't know how to do that! I like ST's suggestion of an overall plan to "be aggressive" etc. instead of breaking it down into detail. 

You all have such great tips on overcoming this, and I want to overcome it so badly. I have to train, train, train, and not give up. 

So, you think it's a bad idea to formulate 2 or 3 techniques I plan on using per attack? I'm afraid if I don't have a plan, that when I defend/counter, instead of using a trained technique, I'll do something stupid like kick the guy in the shin and run away, lol! (that's a joke, but you get the idea). 

I think Iceman pegged it, I'm just waaaaaay too smart for this. *rolls eyes*


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## jks9199 (Dec 13, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for the great advice. Xue asked why I train. Well, it's to be able to defend, which is why this is so frustrating for me. It's my main goal and my biggest weakness.
> 
> I hear over and over again, "don't think, just do". I don't know how to do that! I like ST's suggestion of an overall plan to "be aggressive" etc. instead of breaking it down into detail.
> 
> ...


One problem I see a lot (and have had myself) is thinking too much, and playing the "is that really movement" game.

You know, when you're sparring someone, and you see them move, and you go "was that a kick?" just before a foot lands in your face, or you ponder "was that step forward setting up a jab" just before the fist lands in your face...  

It's real simple... and really hard to do.  MOVEMENT IS MOVEMENT.  If you see movement, MOVE.  Do something, and you'll be further along even if it's not perfect or ideal than if you stood there trying to decide if it was movement, and if so, what you needed to do.  Some people talk about the OODA Loop; Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.  It's referring to that thought process... and it tells you why action is faster than reaction.  You're getting locked in the first three stages... simplify them.  MOVEMENT means it's time to move.  Pick one direction, and decide ahead of time that as soon as you see movement, you're going to step on that line.  Cover, then defend.  Once you get this to work... (as easy as it sounds, and as easy as it is after the fact, getting there is hard), you'll wonder why you ever had trouble!


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## Em MacIntosh (Dec 14, 2007)

Managing pressure and knowing how much works for you and how much is detrimental is quintessential knowledge if you're hesitant.  You could have pnemonia, a broken toe and it could be slippery outside but when that rottweiler's chasing you you'll clear that six foot fence!  Me, I like pressure.  When it comes to martial arts, the more the better.  It helps me concentrate and trance out at the same time.  Sometimes you could use a slight adjustment to your mechanics too.
  "Yes, I can feel your anger.  It gives you focus, makes you stronger!"


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## Clapping_tiger (Dec 17, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Crap. I just found out I'm testing the 3rd week of January. I am not prepared. I have one instructor who teaches on Monday's and one who teaches on Wednesday's. I was talking to them about this. Both came to the conclusion that I am over thinking things. And I am. They give me great suggestions to overcome it, you all have given me great suggestions to overcome it. But....I can't! :vu:
> 
> As if testing isn't nerve-racking enough, now I have to worry about this portion of the test, and performing well in front of one of the head instructors with a video camera rolling. I'm doomed.
> 
> ...


It almost sounds to me like your hurdle isn't physical, but mental. As long as you keep saying you can't do it, you won't. Being spontaneous is a cornerstone to the way I like to train and the way I teach. It may be too late for you for this next test, but maybe something to work on, is just defending the attack. If you don't do a full technique, but defend the attack and use what you already know, then you succeeded. As you keep working this spontaneous defense, you will find your brain freezes less as you get used to it, and your muscle memory will kick in and next thing you know you are defending with the proper technique. I think, and from my experience (because we have all been there), that you are focusing too hard and getting X technique down to defend against the right attack. First just focus on stopping the attack, then fine tune after you get that down. With all that said, good luck on your test. I am sure they wouldn't be testing you if they didn't feel you were ready. Just belive in that, and you should do fine.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 17, 2007)

Yeah, it's definitely a mind and spontaneity thing for me. I'm reviewing all the material I have written down and am going to go in with the "aggressive" mindset. I have GOT to do this. I have to get it. I keep hoping muscle memory will *kick in*, but it's not there yet. Dammit.


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## tellner (Dec 18, 2007)

JT, you are worrying about this way too much. You're fighting yourself at darned near full strength. Chill. Relax. Smoke a bowl or whatever your equivalent is. Don't worry about the test. Focus on enjoying what you're doing instead of making it a big, frightening thing that you have to conquer. It's a marathon, not a sprint.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 18, 2007)

tellner said:


> JT, you are worrying about this way too much. You're fighting yourself at darned near full strength. Chill. Relax. Smoke a bowl or whatever your equivalent is. Don't worry about the test. Focus on enjoying what you're doing instead of making it a big, frightening thing that you have to conquer. It's a marathon, not a sprint.



Thanks. You made me laugh with the bowl thing too. Ok, I will chill. I stress over it so much because it's important to me. But you're right, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And as Xue said, I'm not going to get beaten or thrown out of class if I don't do well. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. I'm chillin dude. :supcool:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 18, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks. You made me laugh with the bowl thing too. Ok, I will chill. I stress over it so much because it's important to me. But you're right, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And as Xue said, I'm not going to get beaten or thrown out of class if I don't do well. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. I'm chillin dude. :supcool:


 
Hey Jade I have to agree with Tellner and Xue just relax and enjoy!


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 18, 2007)

Jade Tigress said:


> Yeaham going to go in with the "aggressive" mindset. I have GOT to do this. I have to get it.


 
*STOP IT*.... Now relax and take it easy... breathe, calm down and don't worry about it... it will come.


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## morph4me (Feb 7, 2008)

How did it go? Did you relax and let it flow?


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 7, 2008)

Haven't tested yet. Delayed with the trade show and stuff. But it WILL be soon. It was mentioned again at class on Monday. I'm not looking forward to it for this aspect alone. My techniques, while improved, leave much to be desired. I have completed the required papers though. I'm 
*ready* to test...but not ready to test. I HATE TESTING. lol And the worst part is the video camera rolliing, making me more self-conscious than ever.  I have to stop "thinking" and just "do". Except I can't, not yet anyway. *sigh*
Well, it's coming, so I'll test, embarrass myself, and hopefully pass by the skin of my teeth.


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## morph4me (Feb 7, 2008)

If it makes you feel better when I look at the video from one of my tests I still think that my instructor was in a very generous mood. The pressure is part of the test, and once you start you'll end up relaxing and just doing it.


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## kidswarrior (Feb 7, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, it's coming, so I'll test, embarrass myself, and hopefully pass by the skin of my teeth.


Let me presume to tell you how it'll probably really go. _(Stop! Don't do this to your monitor :knight2:_--I won't feel it ). But feel free to tell me I'm full of it... come to think of it, you have before 

Now using your template: You'll test, _be _embarrassed (though no one else will know why or possibly even notice), and sail through, all the while beating yourself up for not being perfect.  

Now, as my authority for busting into your private space with this audacious prediction, I quote one of the foremost CMAist of our time...well, of our board, for sure 


			
				Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> *STOP IT*.... Now relax and take it easy... breathe, calm down and don't worry about it...


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## Steel Tiger (Feb 7, 2008)

I have to say that the delays are not helpful when you are nervy about testing.  But that being said, it sounds to me like you are being quite hard on yourself.  These tests aren't about perfection, they're about knowledge.  Reasonable teachers (I'm assuming your teacher is reasonable) want to see that you have learnt and understood the techniques, not ape them perfectly.

I've said it before, you have the knowledge and techniques, it is your frustration (not helped by delays) and dislike of testing that are making you doubt yourself.  I am quite confident that come the day you will perform as well as you can and pass the test.

Consider this from the one and only Fred Astaire


> The higher up you go, the more mistakes you are allowed.  Right at the top, if you make enough of them, its considered to be your style.


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## Sanchin-J (Feb 8, 2008)

Hmm.. Well, I can only speak for myself really on the matter, but in order to explain I might have to get a big "wordy."  I'm a fairly peaceful person by nature, I don't like violence and would rather talk my way out of situations, you could say I don't have that killer instinct almost, except for when my temper flares or things result in me being struck. 

The way we train in my art however seems to work for me and the others who study, it isn't so much about sparring or trying to change your mentality to face situations as much as it is training in the movements until they become near to a natural reaction in self defense.  As an example, a few years ago I was working as a security guard in one of the local hospitals in my area and had just stepped out on the triage floor when I saw two men running into the hospital. Alarmed, I took up a spot near the door and intercepted them and it turns out, the larger of the two was after the smaller guy and they had been fist fighting for several blocks. The larger of the two men shouted at me and swung and it was like a switch, things just happened. The security cameras caught the whole thing and later I got a chance to sit down and review it. He came in to strike me, I struck his incoming arm, snapped up a rising elbow to his chin and knocked him clean off his feet, once he was on the floor I turned him over and subdued him while calling for backup. The other kid stood there shocked and was quickly taken into custody by my backup until the city police arrived and took them both to jail. 

To this day, I honestly can't remember the actual physical confrontation from a first hand perspective, the only thing keeping it clear in my head was seeing it on the tape after it was all over. The training was there, it was in my subconscious, active and was called upon without having to think about it at all. We train in our movements and use a lot of combinations of basic fundamentals, but beyond that we focus on being comfortable with our own variations to the techniques and I think that's probably what develops the subconscious ability to defend yourself. You don't necessarily have to think at that moment, but let your body do what it was conditioned to do.

Anyhow, I don't know if this helps at all, but from my experience, the best way to condition your body and to nurture your reactions during those situations is to practice advanced forms and katas, and to allow yourself to deviate during practice by introducing new conditions in the confrontation you may be facing.


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 8, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Let me presume to tell you how it'll probably really go. _(Stop! Don't do this to your monitor :knight2:_--I won't feel it ). But feel free to tell me I'm full of it... come to think of it, you have before
> 
> Now using your template: You'll test, _be _embarrassed (though no one else will know why or possibly even notice), and sail through, all the while beating yourself up for not being perfect.
> 
> Now, as my authority for busting into your private space with this audacious prediction, I quote one of the foremost CMAist of our time...well, of our board, for sure



Mark, your post made me smile. Thanks. 



			
				Steel Tiger said:
			
		

> I have to say that the delays are not helpful when you are nervy about testing. But that being said, it sounds to me like you are being quite hard on yourself. These tests aren't about perfection, they're about knowledge. Reasonable teachers (I'm assuming your teacher is reasonable) want to see that you have learnt and understood the techniques, not ape them perfectly.
> 
> I've said it before, you have the knowledge and techniques, it is your frustration (not helped by delays) and dislike of testing that are making you doubt yourself. I am quite confident that come the day you will perform as well as you can and pass the test.



Actually, I've been thankful for the delay. lol  I am much harder on myself  than my instructors are. I know that. It's probably because training is important to me. I don't demand perfection from myself, but damn near close!  



			
				Sanchin-J said:
			
		

> The training was there, it was in my subconscious, active and was called upon without having to think about it at all. We train in our movements and use a lot of combinations of basic fundamentals, but beyond that we focus on being comfortable with our own variations to the techniques and I think that's probably what develops the subconscious ability to defend yourself. You don't necessarily have to think at that moment, but let your body do what it was conditioned to do.
> 
> Anyhow, I don't know if this helps at all, but from my experience, the best way to condition your body and to nurture your reactions during those situations is to practice advanced forms and katas, and to allow yourself to deviate during practice by introducing new conditions in the confrontation you may be facing.



This is what I'm waiting for. It just takes a long time for muscle memory to kick in. My frustration comes because it's not in muscle memory yet so I have to think about my actions. And when that happens, I delay and falter.

Great story BTW. 

I can't thank  you all enough for your great advice and encouragement. :asian:


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## morph4me (Feb 8, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> This is what I'm waiting for. It just takes a long time for muscle memory to kick in. My frustration comes because it's not in muscle memory yet so I have to think about my actions. And when that happens, I delay and falter.


 
The paradox of the martial arts the more you think about it and the harder you try, the harder it is to do it, when you stop thinking and trying to get it perfect, it happens all by itself. As for me, according to the Fred Astair quote in Steel Tiger's post, I have style :uhyeah:


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## bluekey88 (Feb 8, 2008)

TONS of great advice on this thread...it really would make a great sticky.

I'd like to take a different tack.  I don't think it'll help with the upcoming test, but it may help with the problem in general.

I have some questions for you.  It may seem a tad harsh, but it really is not mean to be.

What is it that you are scared of?  What is the worst that can happen?

The reason I ask is that I'm getting a lot of anxiety vibe off of your posts.  Even the earlier ones prior to the test.  I'm wondering if there isn't a fair bit of anxiety around doing these SD techs spontaneouosly.  Thus the need to plan and prepare and the lock-up when actually put into position to do so.  Basically, I'm saying what everyone else is saying, but from a different perspective.  

Here's my take.  Long ago and far away I was once in music school.  I'm a decent musician and I had a fair bit of promise.  Every semester as part of my grade I had to sit for a juried performance.  I had to play a few pieces that I'd prepared over the course of the semester for a panel of my professors as well as perform for the entire school.

Inevitably i would get the worst panic attack.  Literally get tunnel vision, my leg would shake so bad I almost couldn't operate the piano pedals.  My mind would go blank.  It was awful.

Now, It doesn't sound as if what you expereince is to that extreme a degree, but it certainly sounds like it's in the neighborhood.  

Here's my advice (FWIW).  Have you tried something like progressive relaxation?  Basically, think about the worst case scenario (perhaps testing) and rate how tense and anxious this makes you feel.  Then think of a related but totally non anxiety producing scanario.  Thwe worst case is 10, the least case is 0.  Then come up with some sort of "relaxation scenario"  Sitting on the beach, sleeping in on a Saturday morning...whatever works for you.  Also learn how to otally relax your body and let go of tension.  A common technique is to lie down with your eyes closed thinking of your relexation place and starting from your toes and working your way up.  Tense your muscles and then elt them go...paying close attention to how the let go sensation feels.  Very shortly you should be able to evoke this sensation of total body relaxation at will.  You can even pick up tapes and CD's where someone walks you through this.

Anyway, once you can relax yourself, start with scenarios 1 (least) and think about it...when you start getting anxious...just use your relaxation technique.  Don't move on until you can think about a scecario without getting any anxiety.  Work your way up through increasinlgy more difficult scenarious until you can self-relax when confronted your worst-case scenario.

The next level is to try to use this in the actual scenario.  

In this case, you are going to teach yourself to systematically relax and let go.  

It works great for me and a number of my clients over the years.  Now it may not take the anxiety away.  I still get nervous if I have to perfrom...but I can handle that energy now and channel it.  I'm in control rather than the fear.  

Then again...I could be totally off about the root cause of the problem here.  Just tought I'd throw that out for you.

Good luck and keep training. 

Peace,
Erik


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Haven't tested yet. Delayed with the trade show and stuff. But it WILL be soon. It was mentioned again at class on Monday. I'm not looking forward to it for this aspect alone. My techniques, while improved, leave much to be desired. I have completed the required papers though. I'm
> *ready* to test...but not ready to test. I HATE TESTING. lol And the worst part is the video camera rolliing, making me more self-conscious than ever. I have to stop "thinking" and just "do". Except I can't, not yet anyway. *sigh*
> Well, it's coming, so I'll test, embarrass myself, and hopefully pass by the skin of my teeth.


 
Something I use to tell people back when I taught

Why worry, if you can do something about it then do it so there is nothing to worry about. If you can't do anything about it then there is no sense in worrying about it so why worry?

Embarrassed, Why? So you test and you don&#8217;t pass so what will you stop going to train? Will your sifu kick you out? Will you give up go home and never return? Or will you look at the video see where you need work and work all the harder to get it right next time. Or you test and you pass again why are you going to be embarrassed?

If you test and pass great, if you test and don't pass great. Either way you test and you learn and you are not really trying to impress anyone here you are leaning and if you did not need to learn or had nothing to learn then why are you training with this sifu? 

Your sifu has likely tested hundreds and likely wants all to pass but understands that all will not BUT testing is very good at pointing out the areas you need to work on and much easier than how my sifus show me, generally it involves me ending up on the ground thinking "well that hurt" and/or "you know I should probably not do that again". Or the most recent "are you serious or playing" (Sanda)

Also do not think of yourself flunking the test see yourself passing


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## 7starmarc (Feb 8, 2008)

To put it in the words from The Last Samurai you might be suffering a bit from "Too many minds". Instead of minding only your opponent, you are too conscious of others: the evaluator, the camera, the other students and instructors, even yourself (as you said, you are very self-critical).

Also, I wonder about your testing procedure, is the problem in free sparring, set technique demonstration, something other situation?

If it's free sparring, or another spontaneous response situations, you may want to ask yourself if your are pre-determining the technique you want to use? If so, you may be forcing the issue to land a certain technique, instead of taking the opportunities/openings as thy present themselves. If this is the case, you might want to work with fellow students and instructors on recognition of opportunities/openings as well as setting up opponents for certain techniques.

A lot of people I've met have been so focused on performing a given technique, that they force it, or do it when it's not appropriate. These conditions, of course, will result in failure more often than not. Just something else to think about. Try spending time working on setups and positioning, testing out what conditions will yield the best results for a given technique or combination.


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## thardey (Feb 8, 2008)

Studies show that people in general are more afraid of public speaking/performance, than they are of death.

So I'm giving you permission to be worried. So be worried! Do it anyway. Martial arts functions the same whether you are worried or not. In fact, it functions the same whatever your emotional state. "Not being worried" is not on the list of requirements for any test I have ever seen. 

The most they can ask for is to fake it. That's easy - it's all in the eyes. Keep your eyes up and straight ahead - focus outwards and not internally. Then be worried as hell! You're not gonna change that. At then you won't have to be worried about being worried!

Your profile says you ride motorcycles. If you're not totally insane they should scare you. That's probably why you ride. (That's why I do!) So . . . other than completely panicking and locking up, when did being scared make you a worse rider? You can be worried and scared on a motorcycle, and it doesn't affect your riding, does it?

So work yourself up -- don't sleep the night before (but do let your body rest -- don't "cram" for the test), annoy your friends and family with over-strung nerves, watch some favorite old movie to distract yourself, even though you won't really watch any of it. (Watch what you eat, though -- no ice cream bings, even if you decide to torture your mind, take care of your body -- that's what will get you through.) Heck, have a panic attack it you feel the need, just do it _before_ the test. 

Then, it's over. And you'll be proud of yourself, and you'll think you've got it, and you'll write encouraging messages to people who get nervous before tests, and then you'll come to another test, and you'll panic again. 

Enjoy the ride!


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## terryl965 (Feb 9, 2008)

Jade it is Ok to be nervous for one second then just do what you have been doin gand everything will be fine. You have gotten some great advise so I'll just let then speak.Go get em.


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 28, 2008)

Well, it's official. I test on the 8th. The sheet was on the board at class last night. Two other students and I will be testing together. We're the same rank. That's only a week away. *sigh*


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## morph4me (Feb 28, 2008)

Now that you know the date, forget it, no use getting anxious for a week before your test. You're testing because your instructors know you can pass, they just need to see you perform under pressure. Unfortunately I'll be away for a week starting on the 8th, so I'm just going to congratulate you now . Give 'em hell


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## kidswarrior (Feb 28, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, it's official. I test on the 8th. The sheet was on the board at class last night. Two other students and I will be testing together. We're the same rank. That's only a week away. *sigh*


Let me just say as a matter of encouragement, _*I HATE TESTS!!!*_ :highfive: 

But if one gets in the way of my goal, I _will _go through it. Not just endure it; but break it into pieces. :rpo: I'm pretty sure you have the same attitude about roadblocks, Pam. Sometimes we just forget how determined we are.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 28, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Well, it's official. I test on the 8th. The sheet was on the board at class last night. Two other students and I will be testing together. We're the same rank. That's only a week away. *sigh*


 

Good now take the test and let us know how it went.


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## Steel Tiger (Feb 28, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Good now take the test and let us know how it went.


 
Yeah, what he said!


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## Shicomm (Feb 28, 2008)

Jade, i would like to add something wise to this thread but there's so mutch allready !  
Just be the best you can be ...   yourself!  

Keep us posted


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 28, 2008)

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement.


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## HG1 (Feb 28, 2008)

Best of luck on your test!


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## bluekey88 (Feb 29, 2008)

And becasue it has to be said....


GO GET 'EM TIGER!



Peace,
Erik


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## Jade Tigress (Feb 29, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> And becasue it has to be said....
> 
> 
> GO GET 'EM TIGER!
> ...


 
LOL! Thank you.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 8, 2008)

Well, I tested today. Was nervous as hell. Didn't do all that great on the applications, as expected, but there was some improvement and at least I did _something_, rather than freeze up trying to think of what to do. My techniques were repetitive, not the best use of what I've learned so far, and not where I'd like them to be. But I did something. 

In any case, it's over. I don't know if I passed yet. We aren't told right away. The test is given by the top student/disciple and one of the assistant instructors/disciples. Our Sifu doesn't stay for the entire duration of testing as we're nervous enough without him there on top of it. 

It's videotaped for him to review in full, the papers we turned in have to be reviewed, and the *score* sheets or whatever they are that the tester's fill out while we test have to be reviewed. I'll know if I passed when I'm handed a new sash in the couple weeks. 

All I can say is thank God it's over. Now I can breathe.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2008)

Glad to hear you took the test and I am sure you gave it all you got now please let us know what your sifu decides


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 9, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Glad to hear you took the test and I am sure you gave it all you got now please let us know what your sifu decides



Thanks Xue. I will. 

As a side note, I'm sore today!


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## Kacey (Mar 9, 2008)

Jade, _no one_ ever feels like they did the best they could at testing - I know I never do.  No matter what I do well, I always focus on the parts that weren't as good as I wanted them to be.  As long as you did the best you could and showed improvement, that's all that really matters.

Thanks for letting us know how it went.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 9, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> All I can say is thank God it's over. Now I can breathe.


Yep. Sounds like a plan.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Thanks Xue. I will.
> 
> As a side note, I'm sore today!


 
ahhh but here is the question I need the answer to

Is it a good or bad sore?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 9, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Jade, _no one_ ever feels like they did the best they could at testing - I know I never do.  No matter what I do well, I always focus on the parts that weren't as good as I wanted them to be.  As long as you did the best you could and showed improvement, that's all that really matters.
> 
> Thanks for letting us know how it went.




I agree, that those I know even the most arrogant will say I think I nailed except for , ..., . Personally I always come away going I thought I trained and practiced but I guess I have to do even more.


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks Rich and Kacey.  




Xue Sheng said:


> ahhh but here is the question I need the answer to
> 
> Is it a good or bad sore?



Ah, it's a good sore.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Ah, it's a good sore.


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 10, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Jade, _no one_ ever feels like they did the best they could at testing - I know I never do. No matter what I do well, I always focus on the parts that weren't as good as I wanted them to be. As long as you did the best you could and showed improvement, that's all that really matters.
> 
> Thanks for letting us know how it went.


 
I have to agree with Kasey on this, I always feel really bad after a test, for anything and am oftern pleasantly surprised by a better that expected result.  So feeling like you've not done as well as you would have liked is pretty normal.


Being sore the next day is a good sign that things are certainly better than they were a few months ago.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 10, 2008)

I have to say that if you don't leave a test, whether physical or academic, thinking that you could've done better then either you're a wunderkind or overladen with self-confidence.

In my own experience, every time I think I've done great has been a time where I didn't fully understand the 'question' .


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 10, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> Being sore the next day is a good sign that things are certainly better than they were a few months ago.



Oh Yeah. 




			
				Sukerkin said:
			
		

> In my own experience, every time I think I've done great has been a time where I didn't fully understand the 'question' .



LOL! Good Point.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 10, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> Ah, it's a good sore.


 
I had to look for this but I meant to post this in my last post

As I was once called by exile

Welcome to the "certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac" club


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## IcemanSK (Mar 11, 2008)

I think it's great that you're wrestling with this. I don't trust any MA-ist (& most other folks) that say, "I've got it all together" in their discipline.

Your's in the struggle,

IcemanSK:boing2:


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 11, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I think it's great that you're wrestling with this. I don't trust any MA-ist (& most other folks) that say, "I've got it all together" in their discipline.
> 
> Your's in the struggle,
> 
> IcemanSK:boing2:



Thank you! That means alot. 



Xue Sheng said:


> I had to look for this but I meant to post this in my last post
> 
> As I was once called by exile
> 
> Welcome to the "certifiable MA House O' Pain maniac" club



YAY! I'm in a club!


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 19, 2008)

I PASSED!!!! 
I was presented with my new sash and certificate at the end of class tonight!  WooHoo!


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## HG1 (Mar 19, 2008)

CONGRATS!!! :boing2:


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## Carol (Mar 19, 2008)

_Way to go Jade!__

RAWR!!

artyon: artyon:

_


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## jks9199 (Mar 19, 2008)

Fantastic!  Way to go!  Congratulations.


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## arnisador (Mar 19, 2008)

That's great!


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## kidswarrior (Mar 19, 2008)

You *GO* Girl!! 
(Yeah, I'm old enough to call you that ).

:EG: :wavey::headbangin::supcool::headbangin::highfive: :EG:


Honestly, I never doubted it. Kinda what *skn *was saying.​


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## Kacey (Mar 19, 2008)

Congratulations!!!!!!!  Not that any of us doubted it for a minute.


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## shesulsa (Mar 20, 2008)

*JADE!!! 

YOU RAWK!!
*:bangahead:  :hammer:  :wavey:  :boing1:  :highfive:  :drinky:  iratedan
​


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## Hawke (Mar 20, 2008)

WOOT!

artyon:

Feels good after working so hard.

Gratz on sticking to it and working through the frustrations.

WOOT!

artyon:


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## Jade Tigress (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks everyone. :asian: I am truly relieved! lol


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## morph4me (Mar 20, 2008)

The only one who doubted you, was you. *CONGRATULATIONS* *!!!*:highfive:


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## bluekey88 (Mar 20, 2008)

Congrats Jade!  That's really awesome.

Peace,
Erik


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## Sukerkin (Mar 20, 2008)

:sensei rei: Kongurachure-shonzu, Pam :huzzar!:


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 20, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> I PASSED!!!!
> I was presented with my new sash and certificate at the end of class tonight! WooHoo!


 
Congratulations.

So.... why did you worry and why were you frustrated?


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## 7starmarc (Mar 20, 2008)

Congrats.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 20, 2008)

How about that?  A nice new sash!  Congratulations.


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## terryl965 (Mar 20, 2008)

Jade Tigress said:


> I PASSED!!!!
> I was presented with my new sash and certificate at the end of class tonight! WooHoo!


 
Congrats Jade


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## thardey (Mar 20, 2008)

Yayy! Congrats!


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## Steel Tiger (Mar 24, 2008)

Wonderful to hear!  Very well done!!


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