# So what does everyone think about Simone Biles withdrawing from the Olympics due to her mental health issues?



## Chrisinmd (Jul 28, 2021)

So what does everyone think about Simone Biles withdrawing from the Olympics due to her mental health issues?

From what I have read she has suffered from anxiety before this.  She has said
"I Therapy has helped a lot, as well as medication. And I feel like that's all been going really well,” Biles said Tuesday night. “But then whenever you get a high-stress situation, you kind of freak out. You don't really know how to handle all of those emotions, especially being here at the Olympic Games.”

Anxiety is not a new phenomenon for Biles. She told Olympics.com in early 2020 that she was “having breakdowns,” and that, a year earlier, “I forgot how to twist and flip.” She had similar troubles in the leadup to the Rio Olympics in 2016.

In the media I have heard people react to this in basically 2 different ways.  One side says she is a coward for not facing her fears and stress and she quit on her team.
The other side says in this statement from USA Gymnastics "We wholeheartedly support Simone’s decision and applaud her bravery in prioritizing her well-being. Her courage shows, yet again, why she is a role model for so many." 

So is she a quitter and a coward or brave and do you applaud her bravery in prioritizing her well-being?

Me personally I have personally let fear and anxiety make me quite many things in life.  I'm not proud of that. So I understand why she withdrew.  Anxiety disorders and mental health issues very real.

But I also don't think quitting should be rewarded as well.

So what do you think?  Was what she did brave or cowardly?


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## Steve (Jul 28, 2021)

Personally, I totally support her decision. Here's the way I think about it.  If she had a physical injury and couldn't compete, would we be talking about whether she is brave or cowardly?  These athletes train injured and under extreme emotional and mental pressure all the time.  They deal with both all the time. 

I can't recall many (if any) examples where we second guess decisions to sit out due to physical injury or illness.  We trust their judgement.  I don't see the media or the public saying things like, "Hmm... was she faking her ankle injury?  Is her decision to withdraw due to a severe high ankle sprain cowardly or brave?"  This isn't any different, IMO.


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## isshinryuronin (Jul 28, 2021)

I think she definitely did the right thing - for herself and the team.  Gymnastics is a most demanding sport (even art) - _not to demean_ the demands of other sports, say running.  In track, competitors are either sprinters or long distance.  All they do is run.  It is more one-dimensional. Gymnastics is literally 3-D and the movements and precision required to be world class are just about off the charts, more than we can imagine.  And along with this comes the pressure and stress of being perfect every time.

Now, to this, factor in the fact that in 2019/20, athletes were training for the expected start of the Tokyo Olympics, mentally and physically focused to "peak" just before time - but, then, it is put off for a year, and they have to ramp up all over again.  This is very draining on several levels, especially in a sport as complex as gymnastics.

Putting this in a shorter time frame, imagine running a mile race and at the last 200 yards, you start your kick, the sprint to the finish, giving it your all.  Then, a few yards out, the finish line is suddenly moved ahead another quarter mile.  ?

Then, you have the pressure of expectations on your shoulders .  You are the best in the world. You know it, your team mates, coaches, and Olympic committee knows it, the entire nation knows it. And even though you've been the World Champion, year after year, after year, after year.., they expect you to be the very best, _again_. And, you're only 24 years old (though old age for a female gymnast.)

All of the above can easily give rise to a form of PTSD.  Good for Simone for having the presence of mind to realize that, this time, she just didn't have it in her to perform at Olympic medal level. Putting her team first, she dropped out. Her legacy should be untarnished - She has dominated American and World gymnastics for a long time, but all good things must come to an end.  She will always be a Champion.


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## Tez3 (Jul 28, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> I think she definitely did the right thing - for herself and the team.  Gymnastics is a most demanding sport (even art) - _not to demean_ the demands of other sports, say running.  In track, competitors are either sprinters or long distance.  All they do is run.  It is more one-dimensional. Gymnastics is literally 3-D and the movements and precision required to be world class are just about off the charts, more than we can imagine.  And along with this comes the pressure and stress of being perfect every time.
> 
> Now, to this, factor in the fact that in 2019/20, athletes were training for the expected start of the Tokyo Olympics, mentally and physically focused to "peak" just before time - but, then, it is put off for a year, and they have to ramp up all over again.  This is very draining on several levels, especially in a sport as complex as gymnastics.
> 
> ...



What you haven't mentioned is the continual sexual abuse she suffered from the team doctor for years, the stress of being the one that blew the whistle when the  authorities didn't want her to, the horror of reliving it all and the knowledge this was news all around the world as well as the online racist and misogynist abuse she's still getting. 

Then there's the Olympic gymnastic judges telling her they wouldn't be marking her highly because her techniques can't be done by other gymnasts. 

She's reported to have said she lost herself doing the vault, a very dangerous thing to happen while you are in the air.

Yes, she was right to withdraw herself, totally. She stayed to support her team, fetched them chalk, drinks etc, hugged and encouraged them. 


She is a tremendously courageous and strong young woman, a role model and she deserves time to herself, to recover and go on to do whatever she wants. I have huge admiration for her, she's more than just a survivor she's a beacon of hope for other sexual abuse and rape victims as well as a remarkable athlete.

I watched the gymnastics on Eurosport, all the neutral commentators had Russia as favourites,several of their gymnasts are European champions. They also have some new very talented girls, two of whom were too young to compete last year, that haven't been seen much of because of lack of competition due to Covid, with the judges already indicating they'd mark Biles down it was unlikely the US would win gold, so those blaming her for losing gold are very wrong.


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## Oily Dragon (Jul 28, 2021)

It's got to be a kind of curse, once you're the best, to be expected to never fall short again.

Kudos to her.


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## Buka (Jul 28, 2021)

I hope she's okay. 

The last vault she did, the one that led to her removing herself, you could see it in her run up. She was different, stiff, unsure in the eye. Fortunately she didn’t seem to get hurt.

I support her one hundred percent, I wish her well. It must be very difficult being in her shoes, even without whatever issues she’s struggling through. She’s been doing gymnastics since she was eight, more and more with every passing year. And that training is hard as nails. I think she is, too. 

She went through foster care, went through the Larry Nassar horror show, and now this turning point in her life.

I wish her all the best.


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## cismab (Jul 28, 2021)

I think that's completely her choice. I respect her decision (For what it is worth since she doesn't know me personally and shouldn't take anything anyone else says into consideration for her own personal decision). As for the media... News these days has turned into editorial comment and frankly I don't feel its either news or anyone else's business. I wish her well.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2021)

Unfortunately people like Piers Morgan have this to say.
"*Are ‘mental health issues’ now the go-to excuse for any poor performance in elite sport? What a joke. Just admit you did badly, made mistakes, and will strive to do better next time. Kids need strong role models not this nonsense.*"

This is someone who doesn't understand how important being in the right mindset is.  Especially for someone flipping around.  Stray thoughts while doing stuff like that can result in broken limbs, injuries and even death.  That's why there's a saying "Get your head in the game."  If you can't do that then everything after that sucks.

Stuntmen won't do stunts if they feel off.  This is what happens when your "mind isn't in the game."





You know what Piers Morgan does when his "mind isn't in the game"?  He takes the day off or goes on Vacation.


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## CB Jones (Jul 28, 2021)

At first I frowned on it....because of the team aspect.....until it was explained that she developed something called the twisties.

It is a phenomenon that gymnastics can develop.  Basically you lose the ability to recognize space and dimension while flipping through the air and puts you out of control.

If that is the case....it made sense to withdraw because she could not help the team.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 28, 2021)

I don't think it's any of my business.


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## jks9199 (Jul 28, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't think it's any of my business.


Largely, I agree.

However, I will say that, if she feels unsafe, she needs to step down.  I've told officers working for me that they should stay home if they're head isn't going to be in the game -- and 90% of the time, it's not really a big deal for them if they are a little off.  They just can't control when the 10% isn't going to happen.  Here -- she KNOWS she's going to be doing very physically and mentally demanding techniques that have a high chance of injury if they go wrong.  I'd rather she step back than be carried off in a stretcher, possibly never to walk again -- or worse.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 28, 2021)

jks9199 said:


> Largely, I agree.
> 
> However, I will say that, if she feels unsafe, she needs to step down.  I've told officers working for me that they should stay home if they're head isn't going to be in the game -- and 90% of the time, it's not really a big deal for them if they are a little off.  They just can't control when the 10% isn't going to happen.  Here -- she KNOWS she's going to be doing very physically and mentally demanding techniques that have a high chance of injury if they go wrong.  I'd rather she step back than be carried off in a stretcher, possibly never to walk again -- or worse.


I agree. I can only say that I have zero right to say what Simone Biles does. It is literally not my business, and I don't think I have any right to an opinion on the matter. I'm very sorry for what she must be going through.


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## Chrisinmd (Jul 28, 2021)

This is well said.


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## Tez3 (Jul 30, 2021)

JowGaWolf said:


> Unfortunately people like Piers Morgan have this to say.
> "*Are ‘mental health issues’ now the go-to excuse for any poor performance in elite sport? What a joke. Just admit you did badly, made mistakes, and will strive to do better next time. Kids need strong role models not this nonsense.*"
> 
> This is someone who doesn't understand how important being in the right mindset is.  Especially for someone flipping around.  Stray thoughts while doing stuff like that can result in broken limbs, injuries and even death.  That's why there's a saying "Get your head in the game."  If you can't do that then everything after that sucks.
> ...




I have a personal 'interest' in Piers Morgan. I wish him all kinds of hell visited on him.
When he was the editor of a newspaper here in 2004, he knowingly published a fake story about British soldiers torturing a prisoner, it even had faked up photos of 'actors'. This put soldiers lives even more at risk than they were. The regiment concerned at the time was stationed here where I am, I was working with many of them and a couple were our martial arts students. They'd already lost soldiers when an ambulance was attacked. The Commanding Officer of the regiment was actually incandescent with rage, he proved the photographs were faked though and Morgan was fired as editor.

Before that though a young girl had gone missing, her parents and the police believed she was still alive because the messages on her mobile phone had been accessed. They were sadly very wrong, she had been murdered some time before and the messages had actually been hacked by journalists belonging to the same group, though another paper but Morgan admitted he had listened to the messages. He did not inform the police. After that came out so did the fact that many celebrities and others had also had their phones hacked so stories could be put in the newspaper.

Piers Morgan walked out of his job on television here when the weatherman called him out on one of the bigoted  comments he made. Took his microphone off while on air and just walked off leaving the other presenter on her own..........


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## Steve (Jul 30, 2021)

He's a real dirtbag.  





Tez3 said:


> I have a personal 'interest' in Piers Morgan. I wish him all kinds of hell visited on him.
> When he was the editor of a newspaper here in 2004, he knowingly published a fake story about British soldiers torturing a prisoner, it even had faked up photos of 'actors'. This put soldiers lives even more at risk than they were. The regiment concerned at the time was stationed here where I am, I was working with many of them and a couple were our martial arts students. They'd already lost soldiers when an ambulance was attacked. The Commanding Officer of the regiment was actually incandescent with rage, he proved the photographs were faked though and Morgan was fired as editor.
> 
> Before that though a young girl had gone missing, her parents and the police believed she was still alive because the messages on her mobile phone had been accessed. They were sadly very wrong, she had been murdered some time before and the messages had actually been hacked by journalists belonging to the same group, though another paper but Morgan admitted he had listened to the messages. He did not inform the police. After that came out so did the fact that many celebrities and others had also had their phones hacked so stories could be put in the newspaper.
> ...


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 30, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> I have a personal 'interest' in Piers Morgan. I wish him all kinds of hell visited on him.
> When he was the editor of a newspaper here in 2004, he knowingly published a fake story about British soldiers torturing a prisoner, it even had faked up photos of 'actors'. This put soldiers lives even more at risk than they were. The regiment concerned at the time was stationed here where I am, I was working with many of them and a couple were our martial arts students. They'd already lost soldiers when an ambulance was attacked. The Commanding Officer of the regiment was actually incandescent with rage, he proved the photographs were faked though and Morgan was fired as editor.
> 
> Before that though a young girl had gone missing, her parents and the police believed she was still alive because the messages on her mobile phone had been accessed. They were sadly very wrong, she had been murdered some time before and the messages had actually been hacked by journalists belonging to the same group, though another paper but Morgan admitted he had listened to the messages. He did not inform the police. After that came out so did the fact that many celebrities and others had also had their phones hacked so stories could be put in the newspaper.
> ...


Usually I have a book to write, but I don't even know what to say. I had no idea he was evil.


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## KungfukennyG (Aug 3, 2021)

Chrisinmd said:


> So what does everyone think about Simone Biles withdrawing from the Olympics due to her mental health issues?
> 
> From what I have read she has suffered from anxiety before this.  She has said
> "I Therapy has helped a lot, as well as medication. And I feel like that's all been going really well,” Biles said Tuesday night. “But then whenever you get a high-stress situation, you kind of freak out. You don't really know how to handle all of those emotions, especially being here at the Olympic Games.”
> ...


Why in the world would anyone be remotely qualified to offer an opinion on this amazing athlete. You live her life and then "offer your opinion." How about practicing instead of starting a dumb thread?


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## wolfeyes2323 (Aug 3, 2021)

Chrisinmd said:


> So what does everyone think about Simone Biles withdrawing from the Olympics due to her mental health issues?
> 
> From what I have read she has suffered from anxiety before this.  She has said
> "I Therapy has helped a lot, as well as medication. And I feel like that's all been going really well,” Biles said Tuesday night. “But then whenever you get a high-stress situation, you kind of freak out. You don't really know how to handle all of those emotions, especially being here at the Olympic Games.”
> ...


IMO - this did not just occur ,  her coaches should have known better than to put her in this position, She should not have been on the team.   Once she quit on her team mates she should have been replaced and sent home.


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## Buka (Aug 3, 2021)

wolfeyes2323 said:


> IMO - this did not just occur ,  her coaches should have known better than to put her in this position, She should not have been on the team.   Once she quit on her team mates she should have been replaced and sent home.


I interpret this differently. Her withdrawing from the various competitions allowed her team mates to win medals, which some of them did, and more than likely wouldn’t have if she had competed at the top of her game.

I find the esprit de corps among the USA women’s gymnastic team not only uplifting, but likely life changing for several of them.


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## BigMotor (Aug 3, 2021)

It sounds like she has an anxiety disorder, because she has a lot piled onto her. That will make a mess out of anyone, when the people around you demand that you be flawless. There are winners and losers of events, but there aren’t any flawless people.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 3, 2021)

BigMotor said:


> It sounds like she has an anxiety disorder, because she has a lot piled onto her. That will make a mess out of anyone, when the people around you demand that you be flawless. There are winners and losers of events, but there aren’t any flawless people.


I'm flawless.  I perfectly make mistakes guaranteed lol


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## CB Jones (Aug 3, 2021)

BigMotor said:


> It sounds like she has an anxiety disorder, because she has a lot piled onto her. That will make a mess out of anyone, when the people around you demand that you be flawless. There are winners and losers of events, but there aren’t any flawless people.



True....but let's not forget a lot of what is expected is due to her marketing herself as the G.O.A.T for endorsements.

While it sucks she had to pull out....she still probably made millions in endorsement deals prior to it....so I don't feel too bad for her....lol.


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## BigMotor (Aug 3, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> True....but let's not forget a lot of what is expected is due to her marketing herself as the G.O.A.T for endorsements.
> 
> While it sucks she had to pull out....she still probably made millions in endorsement deals prior to it....so I don't feel too bad for her....lol.


What good is that, if you end up committing suicide? People have done it before. Fifty or one hundred million dollars, will buy you a fabulous house and luxury, but it wont give you peace.

The singer Karen Carpenter comes to mind.People may not mean to suck someone else dry, but they get to wrapped up in them, especially if they are the money maker.


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## CB Jones (Aug 3, 2021)

BigMotor said:


> What good is that, if you end up committing suicide?



WTH?  Where did that come from?

Nothing about her problem has suggested depression or suicidal thoughts....

She has a mental block from possibly the stress.....gymnasts experience this often and overcome it.  She will overcome it or retire as one of the best if not the best and make millions in book deals, analysts/commentary, and public appearances.


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## Doc (Aug 3, 2021)

I don't even see this as a "mental health" thing. Losing your orientation is a significant physical problem in a routine. But then some people wouldn't be satisfied until she broke her neck. She did the right thing and protected herself, supported her teammates and finished in an event that didn't require "twisting" in the air and won a medal. What's not to like, not to mention some of her teammates got medals they wouldn't have if she had competed.


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## BigMotor (Aug 4, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> WTH?  Where did that come from?
> 
> Nothing about her problem has suggested depression or suicidal thoughts....
> 
> She has a mental block from possibly the stress.....gymnasts experience this often and overcome it.  She will overcome it or retire as one of the best if not the best and make millions in book deals, analysts/commentary, and public appearances.


People routinely kill themselves while they are under severe stress. You are blind to reality, because there is an intrinsic possibility of suicide.

She gave up her dream  and she may try again in the next Olympic, but she is done with this one.

Maybe she will be fine, but to be aghast that I brought it up is silly.


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## Steve (Aug 4, 2021)

wolfeyes2323 said:


> IMO - this did not just occur ,  her coaches should have known better than to put her in this position, She should not have been on the team.   Once she quit on her team mates she should have been replaced and sent home.


I disagree.  It's just like any injury, illness, or other incapacitating event.  Way I see it is if she had a high ankle sprain or other physical issue, there would be no discussion.  This is no different, in my opinion.  Trust her, the coaches, and the doctors to make the call, and if she can't compete, she can't compete.


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## Tez3 (Aug 4, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> True....but let's not forget a lot of what is expected is due to her marketing herself as the G.O.A.T for endorsements.
> 
> While it sucks she had to pull out....she still probably made millions in endorsement deals prior to it....so I don't feel too bad for her....lol.



Yeah, because having loads of money always makes up for the trauma of being sexually abused as a young person ....... for years. It even carried on long after the FBI were involved.The
Glad you find it all amusing.


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## CB Jones (Aug 4, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Yeah, because having loads of money always makes up for the trauma of being sexually abused as a young person ....... for years. It even carried on long after the FBI were involved.The
> Glad you find it all amusing.



Well, I never said anything about the sexual trauma or laughed about it.

I was just talking about her developing the twisties and having to pullout of competition.  Career wise her spot as the winningest Olympic gymnast is locked in and she has had a great career and is set financially.

Career wise I don't feel bad that she didn't win one more all-around....without it she is still an all-time great.


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## Tez3 (Aug 5, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Well, I never said anything about the sexual trauma or laughed about it.
> 
> I was just talking about her developing the twisties and having to pullout of competition.  Career wise her spot as the winningest Olympic gymnast is locked in and she has had a great career and is set financially.
> 
> Career wise I don't feel bad that she didn't win one more all-around....without it she is still an all-time great.



Why is money always considered the indicator of happiness and success?


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## Steve (Aug 5, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Why is money always considered the indicator of happiness and success?



"Money can't buy love, but it improves your bargaining position." - Christopher Marlowe


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## CB Jones (Aug 5, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Why is money always considered the indicator of happiness and success?



Because often times one of the goals of having a career is to provide financial security and a good quality of life for you and your family.

So by achieving financial security you have succeeded in fulfilling that career goal.

When I chose a career in law enforcement,  one of my goals was to provide financial security for my family and myself and (knock on wood) so far I have succeeded in that.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 5, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> At first I frowned on it....because of the team aspect.....until it was explained that she developed something called the twisties.
> 
> It is a phenomenon that gymnastics can develop.  Basically you lose the ability to recognize space and dimension while flipping through the air and puts you out of control.
> 
> If that is the case....it made sense to withdraw because she could not help the team.


The team aspect is actually something I respect her a lot more for. It's a lot tougher to quit on your team then it is to quit on yourself, for most people. 

And it wasn't really quitting on her team (although I'm sure many people interpret it that way, and the thought may have crossed her mind). She recognized, that given her current state, she was not the best person for her team. In any sport, if I'm competing for something and someone knows that they won't do well, I'd much rather them inform us of that, then have them try to push through and lose (or get injured in this case) as a result.


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## Tez3 (Aug 5, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Because often times one of the goals of having a career is to provide financial security and a good quality of life for you and your family.
> 
> So by achieving financial security you have succeeded in fulfilling that career goal.
> 
> When I chose a career in law enforcement,  one of my goals was to provide financial security for my family and myself and (knock on wood) so far I have succeeded in that.




However you didn't start work as a child and you have a family, two things Ms Biles had to deal with that you don't.  

Financial security is one thing, being made to compete in gymnastics while passing kidney stones is another.  If she was doing it all for many and came shouldn't wouldn't have reported the abuse, it could have very easily destroyed everything she's worked for. Your situation is in no way comparable to hers but money is supposed to make everything alright?

Her mental health is her priority at this time, I have no doubts that the powers that be in American gymnastics care very little about her health as they've already shown. There seems to be a general toxicity and unwillingness to change the atmosphere in gymnastics, in the UK there's allegations flying if bullying and body shaming. This is not how we should be treating young people, telling them it'll be fine because if they succeed, at a huge cost to themselves, they'll be rich and famous is not good enough. This isn't a 'career and financial security' this is a horror story.


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## CB Jones (Aug 5, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> However you didn't start work as a child and you have a family, two things Ms Biles had to deal with that you don't.
> 
> Financial security is one thing, being made to compete in gymnastics while passing kidney stones is another.  If she was doing it all for many and came shouldn't wouldn't have reported the abuse, it could have very easily destroyed everything she's worked for. Your situation is in no way comparable to hers but money is supposed to make everything alright?
> 
> Her mental health is her priority at this time, I have no doubts that the powers that be in American gymnastics care very little about her health as they've already shown. There seems to be a general toxicity and unwillingness to change the atmosphere in gymnastics, in the UK there's allegations flying if bullying and body shaming. This is not how we should be treating young people, telling them it'll be fine because if they succeed, at a huge cost to themselves, they'll be rich and famous is not good enough. This isn't a 'career and financial security' this is a horror story.



Again.....I'm not referring to the mental trauma from the sexual abuse.  It's my understanding that it is a separate issue than why she had to withdraw from competition.

I now remember why I took a break from this site.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 5, 2021)

I've just been linking my computer to my tv and watching it through nbcolympics.com/schedule

I can watch the events I want, when I want, and not miss any of them. Especially since no way I'm watching them live with the time difference.


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## Tez3 (Aug 6, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Again.....I'm not referring to the mental trauma from the sexual abuse.  It's my understanding that it is a separate issue than why she had to withdraw from competition.
> 
> I now remember why I took a break from this site.



Because you didn't think it's all joined up? Trauma isn't a separate issue, it's all bound up together and informs how she is today.
I presume you took a break when you didn't like being disagreed with.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 6, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> Because often times one of the goals of having a career is to provide financial security and a good quality of life for you and your family.
> 
> So by achieving financial security you have succeeded in fulfilling that career goal.
> 
> When I chose a career in law enforcement,  one of my goals was to provide financial security for my family and myself and (knock on wood) so far I have succeeded in that.


True, but I suspect it's not prominent in the decision to become an Olympian. That's a lot of years and opportunity cost for a poor chance at making significant money. Going into law enforcement is probably a better route.


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## CB Jones (Aug 6, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> True, but I suspect it's not prominent in the decision to become an Olympian. That's a lot of years and opportunity cost for a poor chance at making significant money. Going into law enforcement is probably a better route.



I dunno.

At 18 years old, Biles turned down a college scholarship to turn professional and recieved 2 million dollars in endorsement deals.  She went to her first Olympics the next year.

Sounds like she took a pretty good career route.


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## Chrisinmd (Aug 6, 2021)

BigMotor said:


> It sounds like she has an anxiety disorder, because she has a lot piled onto her. That will make a mess out of anyone, when the people around you demand that you be flawless. There are winners and losers of events, but there aren’t any flawless people.


Yes she has an anxiety disorder.  Probaly PTSD as well from the sexual abuse she suffered from Larry Nassar as well.  Hope she gets well.


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## Chrisinmd (Aug 6, 2021)

KungfukennyG said:


> Why in the world would anyone be remotely qualified to offer an opinion on this amazing athlete. You live her life and then "offer your opinion." How about practicing instead of starting a dumb thread?


Oh so you want to be an "A hole"!  If your to busy "practicing" dont bother responding to the thread.  By the number of people posting in this thread everyone else found it to be an interesting discussion


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 6, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> I dunno.
> 
> At 18 years old, Biles turned down a college scholarship to turn professional and recieved 2 million dollars in endorsement deals.  She went to her first Olympics the next year.
> 
> Sounds like she took a pretty good career route.


Firstly, that's likely an exceptional case, since she's an exceptionpal athlete (even among the exceptional athletes).


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## Gaucho (Aug 7, 2021)

CB Jones said:


> While it sucks she had to pull out....she still probably made millions in endorsement deals prior to it....so I don't feel too bad for her....lol.


I know nothing of Biles or her problem - which some describe as merely an 'issue' - but I doubt that she will suffer losses of endorsement deals; in fact, if anything the advertisers are more likely to want to do business with her now.  Many of the Olympic TV ads I have seen are selling feelgoodism and have nothing to do with the products which the companies produce and sell.   Such is today's zeitgeist.


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## drop bear (Aug 7, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Why is money always considered the indicator of happiness and success?



Because you can buy stuff with it.


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## Tez3 (Aug 7, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Because you can buy stuff with it.



There's also a lot you can't.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 7, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> There's also a lot you can't.


True enough, but life is a lot easier when you have money and problems than when you have no money and problems.


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## CB Jones (Aug 7, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> True enough, but life is a lot easier when you have money and problems than when you have no money and problems.



I know everybody says money can't buy happiness

But it could buy me a boat
It could buy me a truck to pull it
It could buy me a Yeti 110 iced down with some silver bullets
Yeah, and I know what they say, money can't buy everything
Well, maybe so
But it could buy me a boat


Great...now I have that song stuck in my head...lol


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## Tez3 (Aug 9, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> True enough, but life is a lot easier when you have money and problems than when you have no money and problems.



Only if you don't have mental health problems, they can prevent you enjoying what you have, can prevent you from getting help, can alienate friends and family, leaving you with .money in the bank and nothing else.

I've seen too many veterans now who have lives destroyed by mental health issues due to trauma. Money does nothing for them, sadly.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 10, 2021)

Tez3 said:


> Only if you don't have mental health problems, they can prevent you enjoying what you have, can prevent you from getting help, can alienate friends and family, leaving you with .money in the bank and nothing else.
> 
> I've seen too many veterans now who have lives destroyed by mental health issues due to trauma. Money does nothing for them, sadly.


And even then, having money makes it easier to get help.


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## granfire (Aug 10, 2021)

I wish I had not read this thread. 

Money doesn't really do a lot for you when you break your neck. 
Somewhere in this story a different gymnast popped up (and weighed in). A case of the twisties left her paralyzed, possibly forever. 

Then Kerry Strug popped up. 
And her 'courageous vault' on a severely sprained ankle
A different view, a small girl being bullied to perform on command. 
Karoli and Nasser in the picture (literally) 
How is her leg these days? 

Simone Biles did something - and many people hate her for it - that should set a marker for future athletes. She set her boundaries, and looked out for herself first. 
Women are not expected to do this. 
Or rather it is disliked when they do that. 
When they show agency of their own. The difference between Strug wrecking her ankle and Biles stepping away. 

They don't belong to anybody.
We are not going to pay their medical bills. 
Or take care of them. 

Biles removed herself from being a pawn.
And yes, the racial thing plays in as well. Big time. 

I had the twisties before. 
I was just not 10 feet in the air, but driving a familiar stretch of road in the dark and wondered where I was. A second, two perhaps. No harm done, just stay on the hard top. 

I can't imagine that happening when inverted in the middle of a million degree somersault. 

She helped to get her team qualified (with basically both arms tied behind her back, scoring wise) 
And a couple of the other women medaled. 

That is leadership under fire. 

Money can help with a lot of things, true. 
But it also can exaggerate a lot of other problems.
Like envy and petty from strangers when you have a problem money can't fix.


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> And even then, having money makes it easier to get help.



It doesn't help actually, because in depression for example you can get so bad you don't get out of bed, you don't wash, eat or  basically do anything even go to the toilet because your illness doesn't allow it. To get help, whether paid for or not, requires you to be in control of yourself enough to recognise you need help. Often mental illness means you aren't in control so what use is money?


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2021)

New Zealand elite cyclist Olivia Podmore 26, was found dead today in her home, there were fears about her mental health but it was too late to help her. 😢

May her memory be a blessing.


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## dvcochran (Aug 10, 2021)

granfire said:


> I wish I had not read this thread.
> 
> Money doesn't really do a lot for you when you break your neck.
> Somewhere in this story a different gymnast popped up (and weighed in). A case of the twisties left her paralyzed, possibly forever.
> ...


This is more my thoughts. A very big women stepped aside because she saw the bigger picture. Damn strong person in my opinion. 
And she still accomplished a goal I imagine was on her checklist (most medals). 
I also wonder if there was not a degree of silent protest for the unfair scoring against her.


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## granfire (Aug 10, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> This is more my thoughts. A very big women stepped aside because she saw the bigger picture. Damn strong person in my opinion.
> And she still accomplished a goal I imagine was on her checklist (most medals).
> I also wonder if there was not a degree of silent protest for the unfair scoring against her.


I am sure the unfairness of the scoring also weighed in.

The Olympics are supposed to be 'Bring all you got, hope you brung enough' 
She could have just said, "I sprained something'  
Using her platform of recognition to bring light to issues is a hallmark few have. 
(and in light of her issues there is talk about the problems with the vaulting competition, while the athletes wait, they cool down and then are asked to perform at their best. We know how bad that can end and most of us go not go airborne.


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## _Simon_ (Aug 10, 2021)

granfire said:


> I am sure the unfairness of the scoring also weighed in.
> 
> The Olympics are supposed to be 'Bring all you got, hope you brung enough'
> She could have just said, "I sprained something'
> ...


Yeah I was blown away by just how very little warmup time the gymnasts get! Like they can do stuff away from the apparatus, but they get such little time of warmup with the actual apparatus. So bizarre... with the extreme hyper mobility and explosiveness they need to do in their routine I'm amazed there aren't more injuries...


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## dvcochran (Aug 11, 2021)

_Simon_ said:


> Yeah I was blown away by just how very little warmup time the gymnasts get! Like they can do stuff away from the apparatus, but they get such little time of warmup with the actual apparatus. So bizarre... with the extreme hyper mobility and explosiveness they need to do in their routine I'm amazed there aren't more injuries...


I have a different view. Those kids have been practicing with the apparatus' for years, some most of their life. It is truly an extension of their body, so much so that familiarity is literally natural. The factors around being in the competition spectrum is more likely to cause the jitters or yips; that is a part of the mental component. The media pressure alone would be immense to me. I personally would struggle with blocking out all the external stuff they have to deal with more than needing to warm up on the apparatus. 

I very much compare it to the common goal we have in martial arts. We practice and practice and practice until the movement, and reaction when necessary, is automatic and natural. Especially when holding weapon (our 'apparatus').

When I was at the nationals & trials, I remember having to calm myself over and over and remind myself it is just part of the 'job'. Just do the work the way you have trained to do it. Do your job. 
Making the things around the big moments less of a stressor helped greatly. 
For me, feeling the pressure of failure was never an issue. Feeling like I did not give my best, no matter what the result, was.


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## granfire (Aug 11, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> I have a different view. Those kids have been practicing with the apparatus' for years, some most of their life. It is truly an extension of their body, so much so that familiarity is literally natural. The factors around being in the competition spectrum is more likely to cause the jitters or yips; that is a part of the mental component. The media pressure alone would be immense to me. I personally would struggle with blocking out all the external stuff they have to deal with more than needing to warm up on the apparatus.
> 
> I very much compare it to the common goal we have in martial arts. We practice and practice and practice until the movement, and reaction when necessary, is automatic and natural. Especially when holding weapon (our 'apparatus').
> 
> ...


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## granfire (Aug 11, 2021)

well, this is a matter of the physiology.
you sit around you cool down.
It is a concern in MLB when an inning lasts too long. 
But pitchers have the option to go someplace and throw to stay loose. 
And the worst they can do is throw their arm out (for good)

Knowing better means we should do better. 
These athletes aren't robots. 

and yes, a lot of the vault is mental.


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## dvcochran (Aug 11, 2021)

granfire said:


> well, this is a matter of the physiology.
> you sit around you cool down.
> It is a concern in MLB when an inning lasts too long.
> But pitchers have the option to go someplace and throw to stay loose.
> ...


But just like a pitcher warming up in the dugout with 3/4 speed pitches the gymnast are hopefully able to stay warm on the sidelines in some form or fashion. 
I suppose robot is a strong term but there are robotic mannerisms to their level of performance. Repeatability is a huge deal for them. Nothing is better at repetitive motion than a robot. 

Is there zero form of warming up on the sidelines for gymnasts? I honestly do not know.


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## jks9199 (Aug 11, 2021)

dvcochran said:


> I have a different view. Those kids have been practicing with the apparatus' for years, some most of their life. It is truly an extension of their body, so much so that familiarity is literally natural. The factors around being in the competition spectrum is more likely to cause the jitters or yips; that is a part of the mental component. The media pressure alone would be immense to me. I personally would struggle with blocking out all the external stuff they have to deal with more than needing to warm up on the apparatus.


Just like each stick or blade is a little different, the apparatus are all a little different.  And they change over the course of an event, too.  Chalk builds up, they're not placed in exactly the same place between different events, cable stretch...  And then, at the finals, they're not even given a chance to touch the equipment briefly, at least as I recall the coverage.  It's a big deal...


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## granfire (Aug 13, 2021)

aaannnddd apparently there is an even bigger problem with gymnastics. 
their efforts to rebuild after Rio and the Nasser thing seem to be falling drastically short.
And the current head coach pretty much assumed that he needed nobody but Biles to win gold. 
No wonder it was a crisis when she pulled out. 
Maybe they get their stuff sorted now.


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## Tez3 (Aug 13, 2021)

granfire said:


> aaannnddd apparently there is an even bigger problem with gymnastics.
> their efforts to rebuild after Rio and the Nasser thing seem to be falling drastically short.
> And the current head coach pretty much assumed that he needed nobody but Biles to win gold.
> No wonder it was a crisis when she pulled out.
> Maybe they get their stuff sorted now.




The judges had said before the competition started they would mark Biles down citing 'she can do techniques others can't do we can't mark her up' as the reason. 😕 Her team wouldn't have won anything if she'd been in it. Madness.


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## Steve (Aug 13, 2021)

granfire said:


> aaannnddd apparently there is an even bigger problem with gymnastics.
> their efforts to rebuild after Rio and the Nasser thing seem to be falling drastically short.
> And the current head coach pretty much assumed that he needed nobody but Biles to win gold.
> No wonder it was a crisis when she pulled out.
> Maybe they get their stuff sorted now.


Is that so?  I don't know about the crisis stuff, but didn't the women's gymnastics team do very well? I read that every one of them received a medal of some kind, and I thought I saw a USA athlete win the all-around.  Do you have a link to an article or something?


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## granfire (Aug 13, 2021)

Steve said:


> Is that so?  I don't know about the crisis stuff, but didn't the women's gymnastics team do very well? I read that every one of them received a medal of some kind, and I thought I saw a USA athlete win the all-around.  Do you have a link to an article or something?


the women did very well, sure, but before Biles bowed out there was no pressure on the rest of the team. All eyes were on Biles, and the coach all but said 'it doesn't matter who else is on the team' 
They stepped up in a grand way, true. 
It seems a failure as a coach through to prepare them for the competition - mentally - and to rely on one egg alone (and not support her mentally) 

It is a grander picture, if I find the article again, I shall link it. 
Considering the circumstances it was a great testament to the women in the sport that after the problems that were uncovered after Rio they even had a team.


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## Steve (Aug 13, 2021)

granfire said:


> the women did very well, sure, but before Biles bowed out there was no pressure on the rest of the team. All eyes were on Biles, and the coach all but said 'it doesn't matter who else is on the team'
> They stepped up in a grand way, true.
> It seems a failure as a coach through to prepare them for the competition - mentally - and to rely on one egg alone (and not support her mentally)
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm interested in reading more about this, because the women seemed to do very well, which I wouldn't have expected if they weren't well prepared.


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## Rabbitthekitten (Aug 13, 2021)

I have terrible anxiety so I know exactly what she's going through. It's really weird because it's something you love doing but you just can't do it. I'm in a better place now than I was a few years ago, hopefully she will get the support she needs to do the same.


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## granfire (Aug 13, 2021)

found it








						It’s Time for USA Gymnastics to Take the Fall It’s Been Avoiding
					

The program muscled through its reckoning after 2016, and Tokyo exposed the consequences.




					slate.com


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