# 8,000 members and just getting started...



## exile (Jan 9, 2008)

So we've just crossed the 8,000 member mark.

Membership on MT has been increasing in an unbroken upward curve in the fifteen months or so that I've been a member. It's always possible to do better, to improve performance and raise standards, etc.... but I think we're actually doing very well in that particular respect.


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## stone_dragone (Jan 9, 2008)

here, here!


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## agemechanic03 (Jan 9, 2008)

opcorn:  :highfive:   :cheers:


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## ArmorOfGod (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes, but is that a real or hollow number?
How many of the 8,000 are people who signed up three years ago and never made a post, or made one post and dissappeared.
Wouldn't be a good idea to purge members who don't exist to get a more honest number?

AoG


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## Ping898 (Jan 9, 2008)

still it is kind of kewl to be that high....some people for sure have come and gone and I am sure there are some folks that we could do without on here, but still it means interest in MT is high and that new folks are stumbling upon it and finding it something to at least look into....we just got to make sure we keep them....


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## exile (Jan 9, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Yes, but is that a real or hollow number?
> How many of the 8,000 are people who signed up three years ago and never made a post, or made one post and dissappeared.
> Wouldn't be a good idea to purge members who don't exist to get a more honest number?
> 
> AoG



Well, it's true that there are plenty of people who don't post. But that's going to be true for all of the other boards as well. So unless _they_ purge their membership lists in that way, the figure is a useful one in terms of comparability amongst competing boards. The main thing that's important about it, though, is that it's continuing to increase steadily. If you figure that there's a certain % of the membership which posts frequently, and another % that posts casually, but still enough to add energy to the board, then that continuous increase means that over time, thing will be getting more and more active&#8212;more posts, more ideas thrown around, greater odds of stumbling into an interesting discussion&#8212;which is good news for us all.


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## ArmorOfGod (Jan 9, 2008)

Maybe there could be two numbers: the 8,000, then the number of active members (what, about 150?)

AoG


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## exile (Jan 9, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Maybe there could be two numbers: the 8,000, then the number of active members (what, about 150?)
> 
> AoG



Yeah, I was wondering if that might be a useful figure to have somewhere...


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## grydth (Jan 9, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Yes, but is that a real or hollow number?
> How many of the 8,000 are people who signed up three years ago and never made a post, or made one post and dissappeared.
> Wouldn't be a good idea to purge members who don't exist to get a more honest number?
> 
> AoG



A worthy question...... 

My guess would be the roster here represents pretty much what most rosters do. Some members are very actively involved, many others less so, still others sign up but drift quietly away to other things in life. 

A person not posting, though, may not be a sign of disinterest or departure. It seems a pretty fair number of people now regularly pull views and opinions off the Internet, much as people used to read several physical newspapers per day. They may not be debating actively, but they may well be learning/using/disseminating the data found here.

I wonder if trending numbers of supporting members might be a better indicator of 'hard support'...... or if admin has some way of tracking visitors......


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 9, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Yes, but is that a real or hollow number?
> How many of the 8,000 are people who signed up three years ago and never made a post, or made one post and dissappeared.
> Wouldn't be a good idea to purge members who don't exist to get a more honest number?
> 
> AoG



Unlike most other sites, I purge dead accounts annually.
To date, we've had 15,402 account's registered.
There are currently 8,007 accounts.



ArmorOfGod said:


> Maybe there could be two numbers: the 8,000, then the number of active members (what, about 150?)
> 
> AoG





exile said:


> Yeah, I was wondering if that might be a useful figure to have somewhere...



What do you consider "active"?

			Total members that have visited the forum in the last 24 hours: 360
850 members have visited since 1-1-08
1,594 members have visited since 12-1-07

This doesn't include casual lurkers, members who don't sign in each visit, etc.

You can see alot of stats on the main forum page, at the bottom.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 9, 2008)

grydth said:


> A worthy question......
> 
> My guess would be the roster here represents pretty much what most rosters do. Some members are very actively involved, many others less so, still others sign up but drift quietly away to other things in life.
> 
> ...


I keep alot of stats on hand, including some rather detailed comparisons of MT and other forums. Each month the staff gets a huge dump of data, including posts per forum, top posters and thread starters, and registrations.

Right now, there are:
14 Gold Key Club members
132 Supporting members.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 9, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I keep alot of stats on hand, including some rather detailed comparisons of MT and other forums. Each month the staff gets a huge dump of data, including posts per forum, top posters and thread starters, and registrations.
> 
> Right now, there are:
> 14 Gold Key Club members
> 132 Supporting members.


Heres 1 info source:
http://www.big-boards.com/kw/martial-arts/


Here is some old data from a few months ago, truncated to just the top 10 sites.

*New menbers	between 5-23-2007 and 11-5-2007		* 
1	Bull shido			11,429	
2	Kung Fu Mag			10,260	
3	martialartsplanet.com			4,505	
*4	MartialTalk			1,654	*
5	ebudo.com			1,043	
6	defend.net			844	
7	Dragons List			457	
8	FMATalk			422	
9	Karateforums.com			372	
10	BudoSeek			287	

*
New Threads	between 5-23-2007 and 11-5-2007	* 
1	Bull shido			6,656
2	martialartsplanet.com			6,097
*3	MartialTalk			5,684*
4	AmericanKenpoForum.com			2,672
5	defend.net			2,529
6	BudoSeek			1,500
7	KenpoTalk			1,336
8	Karateforums.com			1,233
9	Dragons List			1,222
10	FMATalk			1,024


*New Posts	between 5-23-2007 and 11-5-2007	* 
1	Bull shido			171,085
2	martialartsplanet.com			136,687
*3	MartialTalk			84,617*
4	Kung Fu Mag			38,154
5	Dragons List			21,962
6	BudoSeek			19,091
7	KenpoTalk			16,737
8	defend.net			16,234
8	FMAForum.com			12,307
10	Karateforums.com			11,347


Most of those sites rarely if ever delete dead accounts. So, while 50,000 members looks impressive, you can see new sign-ups doesn't translate to lots of posts.


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## exile (Jan 9, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Heres 1 info source:
> http://www.big-boards.com/kw/martial-arts/
> 
> 
> ...



Boy, is that putting it mildly. BSdo gained 11 times our new membership, which translates into exactly 17% greater new threads than we have, and just a teeny bit over twice the number of posts, in that time frame.


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## terryl965 (Jan 9, 2008)

what we have that other boards do not is a core group that is second to none.


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## exile (Jan 9, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> what we have that other boards do not is a core group that is second to none.



I agree, Terry. And I'd say that in that core group we probably have a _very_ respectable % who are experienced, seasoned, technically accomplished practitioners, many of whom are instructors with a lot of years or decades in their art. So if you go by average value per post, I'd say we've got a good shot at being in the lead, whatever Certain Other Boards can muster in the way of sheer numbers.... :ubercool:


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## terryl965 (Jan 9, 2008)

exile said:


> I agree, Terry. And I'd say that in that core group we probably have a _very_ respectable % who are experienced, seasoned, technically accomplished practitioners, many of whom are instructors with a lot of years or decades in their art. So if you go by average value per post, I'd say we've got a good shot at being in the lead, whatever Certain Other Boards can muster in the way of sheer numbers.... :ubercool:


 
I would have to say yes to all the above, we differently have more meat and pototoes here on MT.


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## jks9199 (Jan 10, 2008)

Something else about some of those other sites and their membership...

I've signed up with some of them simply because someone linked something here... but I haven't posted.

And some of them require you to register to do much more than look at the title of the threads.  That'll boost your registered members pretty quick -- even if they're only a one-time looky-loo.


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## exile (Jan 10, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Something else about some of those other sites and their membership...
> 
> I've signed up with some of them simply because someone linked something here... but I haven't posted.
> 
> And *some of them require you to register to do much more than look at the title of the threads.*  That'll boost your registered members pretty quick -- even if they're only a one-time looky-loo.



_Verrrry_ interesting, jks... I didn't realize that, but it makes sense, if you want to nail down the lurkers but not really scare them off.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 10, 2008)

All of the sites I track have something of worth to someone, and those top 10 sites are successful.  

Kung Fu Mag got 8x the new members yet only got about 1/3 our posts. Why is that?
Bull shido got 9x the new members yet only managed 10% more topics. Why?
Etc.  Those are the hard questions, lol.

What I'd like to know is.....
How can we keep our posts per member ratio yet get their signup volume? :rofl:


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## shesulsa (Jan 10, 2008)

My momma used to tell me it is better to have a little bit of something special than a whole lotta nuthin'. 

(Of course, these are extremes and not intended to accurately portray the subjective forums)


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## exile (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> How can we keep our posts per member ratio yet get their signup volume? :rofl:



Yar, well, that's the trick, innit!?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 10, 2008)

Here's a stunning comparison.....according to Big-Boards, the #1 forum is
Gaia Online
Posts : 1,248,006,185
11,008,052 registered users



> forum information
> 
> The Gaia Online Community is an anime and manga related website, featuring a bank of links, an anime art repository, and a role-playing oriented message board. These forums present a number of innovative and original ideas such as a cartoon-like discussions layout, completely customizable avatars for which you can buy items in a shop, or a rather sophisticated money system allowing you to spend and earn gold in various ways.
> 
> ...




I am SO! in awe right now.


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## exile (Jan 10, 2008)

119 mods???????

I don't think I'm in awe... extreme bafflement is more like it. They need 119 mods???


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 10, 2008)

Another site there has 500.  I talked to an admin a while back...he had 1,100 at the time.

Of course, he was getting 35,000 posts a day at the time.  

I'd be satisfied when MT is doing a solid 1,000/day (average now is 550).



And NO!  That's not a hint to swap toast recipes in TLP thread!


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## terryl965 (Jan 10, 2008)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Another site there has 500. I talked to an admin a while back...he had 1,100 at the time.
> 
> Of course, he was getting 35,000 posts a day at the time.
> 
> ...


 

OK no recipes swaping


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## morph4me (Jan 10, 2008)

What we don't have in quantity, we more than make up for in _quality._


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## exile (Jan 10, 2008)

morph4me said:


> What we don't have in quantity, we more than make up for in _quality._



Dead right, Tom. 

I've always been struck by the care and thought which has gone into many of these threads. People seem anxious to actually uncover some of the truth lurking below surface appearances in the topics they choose to discuss. I know that Bob has expressed some anxieties about the ratio of 'chat' to MA substance posting, but everywhere I look on MT there are serious, often intense exchanges going on about matters of MA history, technique, pedagogy, attitude... the works. And the important thing is that new people get into these discussions and very soon establish themselves as minds to be reckoned with. To me, that says that we're doing the right things...


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## Catalyst (Jan 10, 2008)

grydth said:


> A person not posting, though, may not be a sign of disinterest or departure. It seems a pretty fair number of people now regularly pull views and opinions off the Internet, much as people used to read several physical newspapers per day. They may not be debating actively, but they may well be learning/using/disseminating the data found here.


 
I think this is very true. Some of us may not post a whole lot, but we log in practically every day and use MartialTalk as a source of information, moreso than as a place for discussion.

Some of the things that I've seen on here have caused me to ask questions of my instructors regarding techniques, application of techniques, martial arts history, etc. (I personally think that someday, Exile should write a history book of TaeKwonDo).

Based on what I've seen on other Martial Arts Forums (juvenile behavior, troll baiting, flame wars, etc.), this is the only MA Forum that I'm willing to support financially by paying $'s to be a supporting member.

I've always preferred quality over quantity. Don't worry about being the biggest, focus on being the best (which I think MT is).


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## crushing (Jan 10, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> OK no recipes swaping


 
Recipes are fine, Terry, just not toast recipes.  Hmmmm. . . .I wonder if anyone makes ice water like I do?  


Thank you Bob, for this community!

C.Rushing


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## arnisador (Jan 10, 2008)

grydth said:


> much as people used to read several physical newspapers per day.



Hey, I still do! I have delivered to my home the local paper, the paper from the state capital, and the WSJ, and also get the NY Times on Tuesdays for its science section!


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## exile (Jan 10, 2008)

Catalyst said:


> I think this is very true. Some of us may not post a whole lot, but we log in practically every day and use MartialTalk as a source of information, moreso than as a place for discussion.
> 
> Some of the things that I've seen on here have caused me to ask questions of my instructors regarding techniques, application of techniques, martial arts history, etc. (I personally think that someday, Exile should write a history book of TaeKwonDo).
> 
> ...



I appreciate the compliment, Catalystvery much! But I'm better as a critical consumer of TKD history than as a generator of it; I think I have some skills for assessing the quality of argument and factual coverage... but the real pros have language and documentary interpretation training which would take me way beyond my competence. I'm just thankful they're around to keep our feet on the ground as far as solid history goes in these areas...

What I've bolded above is absolutely accurate. I've looked at around eight or so different MA boards at one time or another and none of them comes close to MT. It's like comparing apples and... clarinets.  The level of thoughtful posting here is off the charts, compared with the average standard out there. I understand _exactly_ what you're getting at.


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## Skip Cooper (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't believe I can add much more than what has already been posted.  

All I can say is thanks for putting up with me 

As they say here in Texas, "Y'all are alright by me!"

Which means: I like you too...I think?  I wasn't raised here, so I'm not sure


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## diamondbar1971 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have been on this site for about 9/10 months now and I don't post that much; I usually am looking for old students of mine or people that I trained with way back when or just friends I haven't seen in a while and its interesting to see just who is on here and to see what they have to say. I have only come across a couple  of rude jerks on here and there doesn't seem to be as many teenagers who have spent days, weeks or months, in the arts and are slamming veterans with decades of experience. I see this on other sites but not here.


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## exile (Jan 11, 2008)

diamondbar1971 said:


> I have been on this site for about 9/10 months now and I don't post that much; I usually am looking for old students of mine or people that I trained with way back when or just friends I haven't seen in a while and its interesting to see just who is on here and to see what they have to say. I have only come across a couple  of rude jerks on here and *there doesn't seem to be as many teenagers who have spent days, weeks or months, in the arts and are slamming veterans with decades of experience. I see this on other sites but not here.*



To me, that reinforces the wisdom of the age restriction in place on the board. There's another thing, though: on the whole, people coming into a new situation tend to adjust to the patterns of behavior that are already in place. People who are used to really hostile, nasty interactions based on other sites they belong to find that they get only negative responses from other membernothing that supports their efforts to inject bad blood into the discussionand often are labelled as trolls and isolated, and this is even before any actual mod action comes into play. So people like that either adjust to the prevailing norms here or respond to being marginalized by upping the ante, which sooner or later leads to banning. 

On the whole, the system works very well, I'd say:  you can take virtually any position on anything you like, but you'd better be prepared to provide good solid reasons, because there are a lot of knowledgeable people on the boardin the MAs and other domains as wellwho are going to press you to support your point. For that reason, people on MT seem to _think_ a bit more before they set finger to keyboard than what you find on many other MA sites....


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## jim777 (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm a mod on a guitar forum called Jemsite.com, and we have about 17K members, of whom about 3500 login (not post, mind you) once a month. It's a nice site, lots of good conversation.
One of the things I've secretly wondered about on here though is the occasional allusions to "that other MA board" that everyone seems to know but me :lol: I honestly couldn't be bothered. the wealth of knowledge here, the sheer size of the forum in regards to the various rooms for individual style discussions covers everything. Heck, I found Seido practioners here 

Great site, numbers be damned!

jim


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## exile (Jan 11, 2008)

jim777 said:


> I'm a mod on a guitar forum called Jemsite.com, and we have about 17K members, of whom about 3500 login (not post, mind you) once a month. It's a nice site, lots of good conversation.
> One of the things I've secretly wondered about on here though is the occasional allusions to "that other MA board" that everyone seems to know but me :lol: I honestly couldn't be bothered. the wealth of knowledge here, the sheer size of the forum in regards to the various rooms for individual style discussions covers everything. Heck, I found Seido practioners here



I think of the place you're alluding to as sort of the pre-Giuliani-era Times Square of MA sites ...



jim777 said:


> Great site, numbers be damned!


 
I think that's really the key. And the numbers will get there over time, I believe.


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## exile (Apr 2, 2008)

A little update is in order: in less than three months, we've climbed to the _9,_000 member level. At this rate, we should reach 12,000 quite comfortably by the end of the year. _Something_ is being done right on this site....


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## Sukerkin (Apr 2, 2008)

You'll get no disagreement from me on that score  :tup:.


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## exile (Apr 2, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> You'll get no disagreement from me on that score  :tup:.



It's good to see these numberswe've had a bit of turmoil in some parts of the board in the past few weeks, but a thousand new members in eleven weeks puts that minor turbulence in the right perspective....


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## exile (Jun 28, 2008)

BTW... we just passed the 10,000 mark!!


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## morph4me (Jun 28, 2008)

:highfive:artyon::cheers:


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## exile (Jun 28, 2008)

morph4me said:


> :highfive:artyon::cheers:



I agree 100%and bear in mind, that's a 25% increase in membership in just a tiny bit over half a year!


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## MA-Caver (Jun 28, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> what we have that other boards do not is a core group that is second to none.



HEAR HEAR!! 

But as I read Bob's stats I had only one thought to this...  


> New Posts between 5-23-2007 and 11-5-2007
> 1 Bull shido 171,085
> 2 martialartsplanet.com 136,687
> *3 MartialTalk 84,617*
> 4 Kung Fu Mag 38,154


Get busy Terry ya (post) whore! :lol: 

But wow... Martial Talk; home of 500+K posts and now 8,000 members! Awesome!


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## Kacey (Jun 28, 2008)

exile said:


> BTW... we just passed the 10,000 mark!!



I was wondering if that was going to happen today... membership was at 9,985 when I logged out last night!

artyon: :drinky: :highfive: :drinky: artyon:


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