# Tang Soo Do question



## Manny (Nov 27, 2009)

How diferent are Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do? It's my understanding that when the Kwans unification to crate the Korean tae Kwon Association and the name Tae Kwond was coined the masters were Tang Soo Doist, so how related are these MA?

Manny


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## Jimi (Nov 27, 2009)

Manny, this is just my opinion, but the Kwans I believe were Tang Soo Do, Moo Duk Kwan (Although it is said that MDK Masters refused to join) and likely another art or two. I am sure others will inform you well here. 

Because of the Kwans gathering under the name Tae Kwan Do is why some are critical and point out that Tae Kwan Do is not a thousand year old art. The Tae Kwan Do Pawlges, Tae Geuks and Hyungs are no more than 75 yrs old at best. This IS NOT A CONDEMNATION OF TKD, just the truth.

Tang Soo Do as many have pointed out is a Korean term for pronouncing Karate (Be it Japanese or Okinawan by origin, still the language of both are danmn near the same) so TSD has an identity attached to japanese culture. Many see the naming and organization of Tae Kwan Do as an attempt to re-identify Korean Arts as Korean alone. Many have discussed how older Koreans still hate the influence of Japanese culture due to its occupation of Korea.

Only in part is TSD father to TKD. TSD forms are also not a thousand yrs old.

To over simplify, the differences or similarities between TKD and TSD are like describing the differences between Baseball & Softball. I am sure others who have been to Korea and have association with GrandMaster Kim so and so (So many all over) will scold & correct me for my simplified explaination. 

Sadly depending on the organization even Korean masters will bicker their differing opinions on what is TKD origin. This will not be a simple question to answer. Listen to others responses to this and take from it what you feel is honest.

There are many many who have strong opinions on the origin of TKD and some may even try to convince you that TKD was given to Korea by the Great Origin Deity itself.

Best of luck and give every opinion here is due weight.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 27, 2009)

TSD and TKD were the same art at one time.  When the kwans were unified fifty years ago, two excluded themselves from the process and evolved on their own.  

Basically, TKD is a sport variant of karate that emphasizes the use of the feet.  The emphasis on foot techniques is a nod toward Korean culture and Tye Kyun, but it doesn't have that much to do with that art.  Most of the kicking techniques were developed specifically designed for use with TKD sparring rules.  

TSD, more or less, remained closer to its karate roots.  Some schools drift closer to TKD or Shotokan depending on the background of the teacher.  My school drifts closer to Okinawan karate and jujutsu, which is my background.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 27, 2009)

They are very closely related, Manny, if not identical. First you need to clarify your question.
When TaeKwonDo organized, 8 or 10 schools merged. But did 100% of the people in that school join? Doubful. I am currently studying Moo Duk Kwon Tae Kwon Do. There are also Tang Soo Do Tae Kwon Do school.
Similarly, there is Soo Bak Do Moo Duk Kwon which was formed by Grandmaster Hwang Kim and others from Moo Duk Kwon who did not join in the merger. I cannot say for sure, but I suspect there are also Tang Soo Do practitioners who did not join the WTF or Kukkiwon and who still teach their art. So the answer is: it depends to some degree on the specifics of the school in question. Simple way to find out would be to talk to someone at that school about their curriculum and affiliations.


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## B.Redfield (Mar 20, 2010)

Nut shell,

GM Hwang Kee did not join the TDK movement, for many reasons, Some members of the MDK broke with Hwang Kee, tried to steal the Dan Bon books, and Joined the TDK movement. Later they broke from the kkw and became TKD-MDK similar but not part of TSD-MDK, others also broke away and kept TSD-MDK name, they are not part of Hwang Kee's MDK but are in the lineage of the ones who left MDK. this has been hashed out many times here, maybe Master Segarra can repost the thread?

b


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## Manny (Apr 5, 2010)

Forgive me if I am a little slow, it's my understanding that in the mid 40's Korea wanting to get rid off any japanese influence (like customs,languaje,etc,) tried to unify the martial arts and creat a new one, so goverment ask all the kwans (martial schools) to get together and did a review of the techs allready had and create a new Korean Martila Art that they named Tae Kwond Do (Gen Choi) and formed the Korean Tae Kwnon Do Association. Not all the kwans adhere to the KTA and prerred stay as they were this is the case of the Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan.

I can say (maybe wrong) that TKD was a evolution of TSD but I have my doubths cause now we have Soo Back Do and now I am very confused.

Back in the 80's my firsth TKD Sambunim told us that Tang Soo Do was the ancient TKD.

Does TSD has more hand techs than TKD? right now TKD seesm to be only kicking (by KKW and WTF) and is most an sport than a MA.

I've been TKD practicioner since 80's and the TKD of these days is almost flashy kicks but nothing more.

Manny


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 5, 2010)

I really wouldn't get hung up on the names of the arts. In the west, TKD is a sport, but in Korea I feel it is more of a word for martial art. There were plenty of arts co-existing for centuries, and as of late, you will hear claims that TKD has always existed, but the word TKD is relativly new. Think of the perfectly valid art of Hwrang Do. I've read the Hwrang guys were all weapons specialists, given their profession, and the whole empy handed thing was a non issue for them; yet, there are people studying empty handed Hwrang do... or is it just another way of saying TKD? In that context I would say yes, but your average TKD school in the west is not teaching what you might learn in Korea. Consider that each name you throw at us, is a flavor of TKD, with a whole new set of rules and customs.
Sean


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