# Karate ryus



## Manny (Oct 31, 2011)

This weekend I found a nice karate book for kids in a book store and I read some of it, the book talks about the main karate ryus (Shito-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Shotokan, Uechi-Ryu and Wado Ryu), I know the Shotokan is the more practiced around the world, and a friend of mine recomend me alot the Shito-Ryu, I must say both of these karate ryus are dominant in my country. What I like the reading was the Wado Ryu invented by a japanese student of Gichin Funakoshi has some japanese jujutsu in it because the inventor of Wado was a consumated jujusu man too. The book says the wado yu uses high stances and throws and sweeps are used to.

Is there any Wado-Ryu karateka in this forum that can tell me the diferences amoung Wado-Ryo, Shito-Ryu and Goju-Ryu

I havent had sucess locating a wado-ryu dojo in my city or state.

Manny


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## Grenadier (Oct 31, 2011)

Wado Ryu is more focused on the "softer" side of Karate, although it's still primarily a striking style.  It's true that Wado Ryu does use what is known as more of a "natural" stance, compared to the deeper stances favored by Shotokan Karate.  

Shito Ryu and Goju Ryu tend to favor deeper stances than Wado Ryu, although to a bit of a lesser extent compared to Shotokan.  

As for Wado Ryu's roots, as you've already pointed out, it's essentially a combination of the classical Shotokan Karate, with much of the Shinto Yoshin Ryu Ju Jutsu thrown in.  It's arguably one of the "softest" Karate systems out there, although I've seen quite a few Wado dojos who use a lot more "hard" techniques than "soft."  If you practice the kata and the bunkai / oyo, then you'll see a lot of the Shinto Yoshin Ryu Ju Jutsu aspect of this system.  

Goju Ryu has more of a Chinese martial arts origin, and is more of a balance between hard and soft techinques.  Most folks consider it an "Okinawan" Karate style, as opposed to Japanese. There are quite a few circular techniques used in this system.  


Wado Ryu does not have much of a presence in Mexico.  The last I heard, there was someone at the University of Guadalajara who was also teaching Wado Ryu, but that was several years ago.


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## Manny (Oct 31, 2011)

Something I like to do in my ho shin sul (korean self defense techs) is the use of takedowns, sweeps and joint manipulation so I feel wado ryu apealing to me, it's true youtube is not a very good source but the videos I've been watching are nice.

In Mexico the first karate that came here in the mid 50's was Shito-Ryu, and Shotokan is another ryu that is widely practiced on my country. In my city Shotokan is the king of the karate Ryus and I have no locate a Shito-Ryu karate dojo but a brach of Okinawa Karate Club's that's supose to be some kind of Shito-Ryu but I am not quite shure.

M;anny


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## Kong Soo Do (Nov 5, 2011)

Manny,

It is also interesting to note that of the Ryus you've mentioned, Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Wado Ryu (and others) have a common root through Itosu Sensei whereas Uechi Ryu is completely separate through Uechi Kanbun Sensei.  Many similarities of course, but also some differences.


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## twendkata71 (Nov 5, 2011)

Miyagi Chojun also does not have lineage with Itosu. His lineage was with Hiagoanna. Shito ryu is a mixture of Itosu type and Hiagoanna type. Naha te and Shuri te. Just for those who don't know. 




Kong Soo Do said:


> Manny,
> 
> It is also interesting to note that of the Ryus you've mentioned, Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Wado Ryu (and others) have a common root through Itosu Sensei whereas Uechi Ryu is completely separate through Uechi Kanbun Sensei. Many similarities of course, but also some differences.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Nov 5, 2011)

Goju-ryu has more of a Southern Chinese influence. The founder being Chojun Miyagi, the Goju-ryu lieneage stretches back to Ru Ru Ko, a practitioner of White Crane boxing. The system has a balance between hard and soft than any other Karate discipline. It also focuses on close-quarter combat, since the katas for that curriculum shows the emphasis of staying rooted in deep stances and being close to make up distance.


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## K-man (Dec 22, 2011)

Grenadier said:


> Wado Ryu is more focused on the "softer" side of Karate, although it's still primarily a striking style.  It's true that Wado Ryu does use what is known as more of a "natural" stance, compared to the deeper stances favored by Shotokan Karate.
> 
> Shito Ryu and Goju Ryu tend to favor deeper stances than Wado Ryu, although to a bit of a lesser extent compared to Shotokan.
> 
> Goju Ryu has more of a Chinese martial arts origin, and is more of a balance between hard and soft techinques.  Most folks consider it an "Okinawan" Karate style, as opposed to Japanese. There are quite a few circular techniques used in this system.


Goju as practised at the Jundokan has much shorter, natural, stances.  (When I was training Goju Kai, Japanese Goju, our stances were similar to Shotokan, quite deep.)  In fact the guys at the Jundokan kept telling us to shorten our stance even when we thought we had.


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## Sojobo (Dec 27, 2011)

Hi Guys,

It is often said that Wado-ryu is a blend of Shindo Yoshin-ryu and Shotokan.With that I think you need a few extra words of explanation:-

When Otsuka sensei was training with Funakoshi sensei, "Shotokan" hadn't been given its name - so strictly speaking Otsuka sensei never trained in Shotokan.

Also, the Karate that Otsuka learnt from Funakoshi was very different to the Shotokan of today, as it was been changed significantly by the likes of Funokoshi's son (Gigo) and Nakayama sensei.

Four styles of Karate namely; Shotokan, Wado-ryu, Goju-ryu and Shito-ryu were formally "registered" as styles (at the same time) in 1938 at the Butokuden festival in Kyoto.

Semantics aside, there is no doubt that Otsuka was heavily influenced byFunokashi, however it is also well documented that he stopped training with him fairly early on in has Karate career and instead trained with the likes ofMabuni and Motobu sensei - the latter of which, it could be argued, had an even greater influence on him.

However - it is also interesting to note that when registering his style, Otsuka *doesn't* nominate himself as the "originator" of the style....??

Sojobo


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## Tanaka (Dec 27, 2011)

Just trying to help you out here with Japanese.
No need to put an S after Ryu.


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## seasoned (Jan 1, 2012)

Okinawan GoJu as I learned and teach = Sanchin stance which = close in fighting. Any long low "rooted" stances within the 12 kata represent specific techniques geared toward principles inherent to movement and lower body strength. Okinawan GoJu with it's roots in China represents a well rounded system of strikes, low kicks, throws, and take downs which are evident in the kata......... My 2cents for the new year.


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## TimoS (Jan 1, 2012)

Sojobo said:


> instead trained with the likes ofMabuni and Motobu sensei - the latter of which, it could be argued, had an even greater influence on him



Likely, yes. I haven't done Wado, but from what I've seen of it, e.g. their basic stance resembles Motobu's basic stance, that is they are holding their hands quite high. I am sure there are other influences also, but that one is quite apparent.


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## Kong Soo Do (Jan 2, 2012)

twendkata71 said:


> Miyagi Chojun also does not have lineage with Itosu. His lineage was with Hiagoanna.



Correct and thank you.  That is the second time I've forgotten about Goju, not on purpose though.  Thank you for the correction.


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## punisher73 (Jan 3, 2012)

If you are looking at Okinawan karate, there are two main schools left today.

Naha-Te: Goju and Uechi Ryu, both of whom trace their lineage to southern China and it's kung fu. Higoanna and Uechi brought back the same katas (Sanchin, Seisan, Sanseiryu, although Uechi stated that he did not learn Suparenpei while there). They also added additional katas to the style.  In the case of Goju-Ryu, this brought the katas up to 12 and in Uechi-Ryu 8.

Shuri-Te: Shorin Ryu styles, most of whom all trace their lineages through Itosu. There is a wide divergance after Itosu and what those students taught, while most still retained the same set of kata. What was left of Tomari-Te was absorbed into the newer Shorin-Ryu styles and does not exist on it's own anymore.

Some styles like Motobu-Ryu (from Choki Motobu) and Isshin-Ryu (from Tatsuo Shimabuku) trace their lineage from Itosu, but also have other influences on them as well.

Japanese karate almost all traces it's lineage from Shorin-Ryu as taught by Gichin Funakoshi and what became Shotokan. You have a harder linear style with very deep stances that were not found in the Okinawan versions. Even in Goju-Ryu (or others) that use the "shiko-dachi" or sumo stance use that to lower their center of gravity while grappling with an opponent to avoid a takedown or throw and maintain balance, it is not a stance that is used all the time or even most of the time.

Shotokan has many offshoots such as Shito, Wado and Kyokushin (these make up the big 4 in Japanese karate) and even those offshoots have offshoots now.


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## TimoS (Jan 3, 2012)

punisher73 said:


> Isshin-Ryu (from Tatsuo Shimabuku) trace their lineage from Itosu



Actually, Isshin ryu traces it's lineage (Shorin side, that is) to Chotoku Kyan, who, despite the _very_ popular belief, was *not* a student of Itosu. I've stated this before, but as repetition is the mother of all studies, here it is again: Kyan's teachers were his father Chofu Kyan, Matsumura, Maeda, Oyadomare, Matsumora, Yara and Tokumine (or actually one of his students)
Oh and this one:


> Shotokan has many offshoots such as Shito


is just very simply totally wrong! Shito is most definetely NOT an offshoot from Shotokan. Shito was founded by Kenwa Mabuni, who was a student of Itosu and Kanryo Higaonna. Funakoshi learned some kata from Mabuni.


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## punisher73 (Jan 3, 2012)

TimoS said:


> Actually, Isshin ryu traces it's lineage (Shorin side, that is) to Chotoku Kyan, who, despite the _very_ popular belief, was *not* a student of Itosu. I've stated this before, but as repetition is the mother of all studies, here it is again: Kyan's teachers were his father Chofu Kyan, Matsumura, Maeda, Oyadomare, Matsumora, Yara and Tokumine (or actually one of his students)
> Oh and this one:
> 
> is just very simply totally wrong! Shito is most definetely NOT an offshoot from Shotokan. Shito was founded by Kenwa Mabuni, who was a student of Itosu and Kanryo Higaonna. Funakoshi learned some kata from Mabuni.




Yep, trying to type fast and mixed those up. I knew Tatsuo learned from Kyan (although where Tatsuo learned Naihanchi is open for debate since Kyan didn't teach it) and it is a Shorin branch of the tree.

Meant Chito-Ryu, not Shito-Ryu.  I had read that the founder of Chito-Ryu was influenced by elements of Funakoshi's style.


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## TimoS (Jan 3, 2012)

punisher73 said:


> although where Tatsuo learned Naihanchi is open for debate since Kyan didn't teach it



Ah, now that is an interesting question. It is true that none of Kyan's students passed it on, but there is some "circumstantial" evidence in the Passai kata that Kyan passed on that he probably was familiar with Naihanchi kata. You see, there is a certain "modification" in the kata compared to other Tomari Passai versions. It can be seen at least in Seibukan and Joen Nakazato's Shorinji ryu Kyudokan (does Isshin ryu teach this kata?), but from what I remember, in the other Tomari Passai versions it is not there. The evidence isn't what you might call very strong, but interesting speculation nonetheless.


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## punisher73 (Jan 4, 2012)

TimoS said:


> Ah, now that is an interesting question. It is true that none of Kyan's students passed it on, but there is some "circumstantial" evidence in the Passai kata that Kyan passed on that he probably was familiar with Naihanchi kata. You see, there is a certain "modification" in the kata compared to other Tomari Passai versions. It can be seen at least in Seibukan and Joen Nakazato's Shorinji ryu Kyudokan (does Isshin ryu teach this kata?), but from what I remember, in the other Tomari Passai versions it is not there. The evidence isn't what you might call very strong, but interesting speculation nonetheless.



I agree that most were probably very familiar with Naihanchi kata.  I have read that some Shorin lineages had Sanchin at one point, but that the older masters had dropped it.  The distance between Naha and Shuri wasn't all that great that they probably didn't know and at least see the various katas.

Isshin-ryu does not teach Passai, but Tatsuo's kata Sunsu has techniques from this kata along with Gojushiho.  I have read that Tatsuo did used to teach this kata when he referred to his style as Chan Migwa-Te (a nickname reference to Kyan), but that he didn't like them and dropped them.


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