# luihebafa, Toronto



## groundforce (Mar 2, 2009)

does anyone know where i can learn this style in Toronto?

even a video would be sufficient for me to learn from. any ideas?

if anyone know please contact me. I do tai chi but after seeing the standing form on youtube. I think it is awesome for grounding and rooting.

Miguel


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## mograph (Mar 2, 2009)

Try the Canadian Tai Chi Academy, either in North York or Mississauga. Being health-oriented, it may or may not be what you're looking for. But hey, drop by and take a look and talk to Ben or Doug.

(_Lok Hup_ is Cantonese for _Liu He_)


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## groundforce (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi Mograph:

Thanks for the info.  Yes this was what I was looking for.  But after reading about this style on their website I am inclined not to take it.

The Master who brought it to Toronto, modified the original form.  For practicing internal I prefer the traditional form intact and unmodified.

From youtube I see that the original is still in China, Shanghai.

Well may have to pass on this and stick with  Tai Chi only.

Thanks Again,
Miguel


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## arnisador (Mar 2, 2009)

Even in a city the size of Toronoto, you may be being too picky! At least check it out.


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## mograph (Mar 2, 2009)

groundforce said:


> For practicing internal I prefer the traditional form intact and unmodified.



Hmm ... Miguel, in North America, finding any traditional form intact and unmodified is a tall order, especially Liuhebafa.  I'm not saying that martial arts are no good in NA (far from it), just that they may have been modified over the export process from China. At any rate, most styles are modified from something else and trying to trace them to their ultimate origin might be a waste of time, since some modifications are actually beneficial from certain points of view.

By the way, I understand your need for authenticity, but being willing to try to learn liuhebafa from a video, with no instructor to test your progress means that you are willing to forego the benefits of working with a live instructor. I recommend that you stick to an art with an instructor you can access interactively, one who can test your rooting, peng and so on. If you have a good instructor, the rooting would grow inside *you* regardless of the form you study. All "internal" styles require rooting, so it's more about you and the instructor rather than the art.

So yes, maybe Tai Chi would be best for now. But keep looking.


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## oxy (Mar 2, 2009)

If you're really desperate, you should instead try to learn Xingyi and Bagua. That combination is basically what you get from LHBF.


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## groundforce (Mar 2, 2009)

yes, you can develop using almost any art. but i have been using this form of tai chi for over 20 years. i have benefited from it.

but i am looking for some variation now.  it doesn't matter the style i can keep progressing even without an instructor.  however liuhebafa seems to  offer the softness and looks very fluid.

it's internal so one's progress after a certain level is dependent on one's effort and ingenuity.  unlike the hard style where technique is very important.

but the most important thing for me is rooting.  i am not into the self defence aspect of the martial arts.  rooting is the foundation of health and also the foundation of a good art.

so if your footwork is solid all other aspect should come easier and faster.
footwork is primary, technique will follow but is still secondary.


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## Bagualo8 (May 23, 2013)

groundforce said:


> does anyone know where i can learn this style in Toronto?
> 
> even a video would be sufficient for me to learn from. any ideas?
> 
> ...



Hi, I'm afraid this may be a bit late to answer your question. I've been practicing Luihebafa since 2000 under Grandmaster Cliff Lok. I came to Toronto in Jul 2011 and I'm now teaching Luihebafa in Markham. If you're interested, you are welcome to join in. You may find me at the coming Children Kung Fu Festival jointly organized by Canadian Chinese Kuo Shu Federation & Markham City at Cornell Community Center this Saturady morning (9:30 - 12:30).


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## blindsage (May 24, 2013)

groundforce said:


> For practicing internal I prefer the traditional form intact and unmodified.


 Such a thing doesn't exist.


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## mograph (May 24, 2013)

To be fair to the OP, he/she may have been overstating an aversion to heavily-modified versions of Lokhupbafa taught by certain Toronto Tai Chi organizations.

Keep in mind that liuhebafa, if i understand correctly, exists in a number of variations because of its mixed heritage, so there may _never have been_ a traditional form, as Blindsage suggests. However, if you can find a good teacher, his/her form may still be worthy of study ... as long as it adheres to the basic principles of internal CMA, and possibly the five-character songs of liuhebafa. 

In other words, you may have to evaluate its worth on your own, based on your knowledge of internal CMA principles. 

I for one, am going to attempt to attend Bagualo8's demo tomorrow morning.


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## Flying Crane (May 24, 2013)

groundforce said:


> but i am looking for some variation now. *it doesn't matter the style i can keep progressing even without an instructor*.
> 
> it's internal so one's progress after a certain level is dependent on one's effort and ingenuity. unlike the hard style where technique is very important.



I am doubting Mr. Groundforce is still around here and this is way old, but just wanted to comment here:  I find a WHOLE LOT to disagree with in these statements.  But that's just me.


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## Xue Sheng (May 24, 2013)

Flying Crane said:


> I am doubting Mr. Groundforce is still around here and this is way old, but just wanted to comment here: I find a WHOLE LOT to disagree with in these statements. But that's just me.



Nope, it's not just you


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## Flying Crane (May 24, 2013)

Xue Sheng said:


> Nope, it's not just you



ah well, it's you and I then.


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## Bagualo8 (Aug 20, 2013)

You may check on Craiglist, there are advrtisments on LHBF ad Bagua Palm. If you are interest, do come to visit us.


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## cloud dancing (Jan 11, 2014)

Hey Groundforce,
        you're determination gets results.Hwa Yu was brought to the USA by Master John Chung Li.His father bean his training early in life.As teenager took champioships in Hong Kong.Said he wanted to thank USA for freedom from Japanese.During WW2 he continued to teach.Japanese thought he taught dancing.
       the standing techniue is fanstastic.After 42 years,I still practise it.Now I also use  Buddha Palm Standing technique.it's  earliest known.check out Hwa yu taichi on net and you'll find Grand master Xavier.He still teaches the original style as Master Li learned it from Lo Chi Wan in Kowloon.He has excellent Dvd's for sale.with dvds you'll learn great deal.I'm creating book w/dvd about my own style for medical useages. Purpose of books/dvds is to show that this mythology of needing Master's chi /energy to learn is busted.Problem is that one wants to be seen as necessary and will attack you for suggesting that with dvds you can learn completely.Shame but ego does tha to us all.ego is one of 5 problem creators.
        i'm seriously impressed that you realize how important standing still really is.Most refuse to accept that simplicity of such exercise is most powerful of all techniques.
Master Doc Fai wong also has series of standing techniques.Why I prefer Hwa Yu after studying yang short form is the roundness of back/prevents broken back during push hands.Keeps full flow of chi.sorry you've been so criticzed for wanting to learn specific style of hwa Yu.Entire title is Hwa Yu/Liu Ho Pa fa/Shing I Taichi king fu.
Liu Ho Pa fa means 6 methods /8 harmonies boxing.it is also called I ching Boxing as all moves reflect the I ching.When style began .centuries ago.Master took all  384 lines of I Ching and translated them into movements.Liu Ho also translates as 6 lines make one hexagram.Pa Fah translates as 8 paqua/trigrams create all changes.
      DVds also include Rowing exercise.so you'll enjoy the flowing of moving backwards and forwards in balance w/chi,inner forces alignment.Sad that when you disagree with someone = they attack.Old saying "Seek and you shall find."
Or as one old Texas Ranger said  "There's no stopping a man who knows he's right and keeps a coming." Guess it's time for em to open up a website and start sharing what i've learned.If you want to send me e-mail through the forum system.You're most welcome to contact me.do enjoy discussing the style that got me hooked on taichi
Master Li could read minds.Had complete emptiness from daily 2 hours of standing still. Could simply {sensitivity} touch the door handle of his school and knew who had visted and left and who was still inside his school.Was great loss when he died.one of finest human beings that I've known.Times just watching him do form I'd cry.such emptiness inside of him.I've known 3 real masters/Li was greatest I've eer seen.


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## Socialwealth (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi Cloud Dancing... Love to hear more about Master Li... never met him, but he's part of my training lineage.


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## mograph (Sep 25, 2014)

By the way, I retract my first post on this matter. I have no idea where the OP could find good liuhebafa in Toronto. Apologies.


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## greytowhite (Jul 18, 2015)

The only good LHBF I'm aware of in Canada is from Nelson Ma.

International Liuhebafa Internal Arts Association

If you're willing to take a trip over to Chicago there are students of Wai Lun Choi who teach but I believe Master Choi has retired.

Contact Us


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## Bagualo8 (Apr 27, 2016)

Anybody who wants to know what is Liuhebafa in Markham/Toronto may contact me. I am the disciple of Master KamTung (Cliff Lok).


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## Prabby (Jun 26, 2019)

Bagualo8 said:


> Anybody who wants to know what is Liuhebafa in Markham/Toronto may contact me. I am the disciple of Master KamTung (Cliff Lok).


Are you still teaching? I’m in Mississiauga.


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