# Update On My New Start



## DocWard (Jan 26, 2019)

I thought I would post a quick update on my return to Kenpo to attempt to finish earning my black belt.

My instructor decided to start me where I left off, the material I need for my black belt. The good news is that so far, I've been able to remember some of the material we've been covering. I don't think I will be quite so lucky when we start hitting on older material, but that is fine. Patience and humility are going to be key for me.

The bad news is I'm not under thirty anymore! I did my first sparring class today, and I am very confident I am going to wake up with plenty of aches and pains in the morning. My shoulders are going to be my weak link, I fear. If anything keeps me from sparring, that will be it. On the positive side, I had fun, and when I sparred against a black belt, I didn't feel intimidated or like I was so far behind the curve that I should throw in the towel. Yes, I'm confident he was taking it somewhat easy, but we did have some good exchanges.

All in all, I'm still happy with my decision!


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 26, 2019)

Take care of those shoulders. Get them strong so they aren't a weak point - if you tear something in there, it can take a long time to get fully functional. I had minor tears in two of the four rotator cuff muscles, and it really reduced what I could do with that arm for a while, which caused some shoulder and arm muscle loss, which took even longer to recover.

So, make sure you're doing some moderate exercise specifically to develop those shoulders - especially the rotator cuff and biceps, for stability.


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## DocWard (Jan 26, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Take care of those shoulders. Get them strong so they aren't a weak point - if you tear something in there, it can take a long time to get fully functional. I had minor tears in two of the four rotator cuff muscles, and it really reduced what I could do with that arm for a while, which caused some shoulder and arm muscle loss, which took even longer to recover.
> 
> So, make sure you're doing some moderate exercise specifically to develop those shoulders - especially the rotator cuff and biceps, for stability.



Thanks! I do try. Unfortunately, I rushed getting back from an injury gained doing Combatives for the Army, so I could go on deployment, and I don't think things ever healed fully, then lifting an IOTV over my head nearly every day for a year just added to the issue. Whether a result of compensating, or whatever, now they both tend to give me trouble, just one more than the other.

I should probably talk to my doctor about some PT/OT, but I have zero desire to have surgery. I'm an avid shooter, and nearly everyone I know who shoots that has had any type of shoulder surgery has said it has had negative effects on their performance, even long term. So, unless it is absolutely necessary, that isn't happening.

I am going to add some more shoulder exercises to my routine though, I just need to decide what. a decent physical therapist might be able to help me there...


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## jobo (Jan 27, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Thanks! I do try. Unfortunately, I rushed getting back from an injury gained doing Combatives for the Army, so I could go on deployment, and I don't think things ever healed fully, then lifting an IOTV over my head nearly every day for a year just added to the issue. Whether a result of compensating, or whatever, now they both tend to give me trouble, just one more than the other.
> 
> I should probably talk to my doctor about some PT/OT, but I have zero desire to have surgery. I'm an avid shooter, and nearly everyone I know who shoots that has had any type of shoulder surgery has said it has had negative effects on their performance, even long term. So, unless it is absolutely necessary, that isn't happening.
> 
> I am going to add some more shoulder exercises to my routine though, I just need to decide what. a decent physical therapist might be able to help me there...


the " face pull" is very popular for shoulder rehab that is you put one of them big elastic bands round something and pull it to your face in a rowing motion


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 27, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Thanks! I do try. Unfortunately, I rushed getting back from an injury gained doing Combatives for the Army, so I could go on deployment, and I don't think things ever healed fully, then lifting an IOTV over my head nearly every day for a year just added to the issue. Whether a result of compensating, or whatever, now they both tend to give me trouble, just one more than the other.
> 
> I should probably talk to my doctor about some PT/OT, but I have zero desire to have surgery. I'm an avid shooter, and nearly everyone I know who shoots that has had any type of shoulder surgery has said it has had negative effects on their performance, even long term. So, unless it is absolutely necessary, that isn't happening.
> 
> I am going to add some more shoulder exercises to my routine though, I just need to decide what. a decent physical therapist might be able to help me there...


Go talk to your doc. Even with the tears I've had (including a pretty bad one in my forearm), they were treated entirely with PT, and got 95%+ better. Most doctors try to avoid surgery. Of course, if I had the choice between surgery and just dealing with significant daily limitations the rest of my life, I'd get the surgery.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 27, 2019)

jobo said:


> the " face pull" is very popular for shoulder rehab that is you put one of them big elastic bands round something and pull it to your face in a rowing motion


That depends what muscles are being rehabbed.


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## DocWard (Jan 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Go talk to your doc. Even with the tears I've had (including a pretty bad one in my forearm), they were treated entirely with PT, and got 95%+ better. Most doctors try to avoid surgery. Of course, if I had the choice between surgery and just dealing with significant daily limitations the rest of my life, I'd get the surgery.



I agree. If I had significant daily limitations, then it would be a no brainer. I would consider that to be not being able to enjoy my hobbies and the like anyway, so surgery would be my hope of getting things to the point where I can enjoy them at some level. I also agree that a conversation with my doctor is likely in order.


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## DocWard (Jan 27, 2019)

Oh, and I'm not as sore this morning as I thought I would be. We'll see how I feel tomorrow.


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## jobo (Jan 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That depends what muscles are being rehabbed.


it's good for all round shoulder health, so that's all of them, it's particularly good for rotator cuff

Tip: The One Exercise You Need to Do More Often | T Nation
and here's another half dozen on the same theme
Search Results | T Nation


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## dvcochran (Jan 27, 2019)

DocWard said:


> a decent physical therapist might be able to help me there...


AGREE, agree, agree. The best thing a person can do to prevent surgery for structural issues IMHO.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 27, 2019)

jobo said:


> it's good for all round shoulder health, so that's all of them, it's particularly good for rotator cuff
> 
> Tip: The One Exercise You Need to Do More Often | T Nation
> and here's another half dozen on the same theme
> Search Results | T Nation


You said for rehab. It's a good exercise, but it depends what you're rehabbing. Even with the rotator cuff, that's actually 4 muscles, and each is targeted differently. That exercise wasn't part of my shoulder rehab until we got the directly-affected muscles in shape.


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## jobo (Jan 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> You said for rehab. It's a good exercise, but it depends what you're rehabbing. Even with the rotator cuff, that's actually 4 muscles, and each is targeted differently. That exercise wasn't part of my shoulder rehab until we got the directly-affected muscles in shape.


and I didn't say that was the only excersise he should do


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## Headhunter (Jan 27, 2019)

Sadly  my kenpo has to be practiced at home as there's no decent instructor anywhere near me...the only place here is more a kenpo lecture than an actual class because the head instructor is in his 70s and does literally no physical work at all


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 27, 2019)

jobo said:


> and I didn't say that was the only excersise he should do


No, but it was a blind reply. Good advice in general. Not good rehab advice, blind.


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## jobo (Jan 27, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> No, but it was a blind reply. Good advice in general. Not good rehab advice, blind.


not blind as all, it's a perfectly true and valid statement, it will with out doubt improve the condition of his shoulders, and that's what rehab mean s , unless we are into to one of those not uncommon situations    wherw you start making your own definions up, it will undoubtedly need additional exercises to get full function of his shoulders back after injury/a long lay off, but that's so obvious I thought it didn't need saying.


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## drop bear (Jan 27, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Thanks! I do try. Unfortunately, I rushed getting back from an injury gained doing Combatives for the Army, so I could go on deployment, and I don't think things ever healed fully, then lifting an IOTV over my head nearly every day for a year just added to the issue. Whether a result of compensating, or whatever, now they both tend to give me trouble, just one more than the other.
> 
> I should probably talk to my doctor about some PT/OT, but I have zero desire to have surgery. I'm an avid shooter, and nearly everyone I know who shoots that has had any type of shoulder surgery has said it has had negative effects on their performance, even long term. So, unless it is absolutely necessary, that isn't happening.
> 
> I am going to add some more shoulder exercises to my routine though, I just need to decide what. a decent physical therapist might be able to help me there...



Probably swimming. Definitely find out from someone who knows more than me. Cos I will just say. Do MMA.

Otherwise if you are a fatty. Fix that. It is the easiest way of cleaning up a joint problem.


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## DocWard (Jan 27, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Probably swimming. Definitely find out from someone who knows more than me. Cos I will just say. Do MMA.
> 
> Otherwise if you are a fatty. Fix that. It is the easiest way of cleaning up a joint problem.



Swimming would be a poor idea for rehab for me. First, I'm not a particularly adept swimmer, second the motion used for just about any stroke I can think of, including the forward crawl and the back stroke, causes me discomfort in my shoulders. I'll pass on the MMA as well, as that is how I got into this situation in the first place.

The question of whether I am overweight would depend on if you utilize the BMI or some other index. According to BMI tables, I came out of Basic Training overweight, with as close to a six pack as I've had in life. I came back from my last deployment in probably the best shape of my life at a bit over 200 pounds, running 5Ks and feeling great. I'm within ten pounds of that now and getting back into running, so I would say that isn't the issue so much.


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## jobo (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Swimming would be a poor idea for rehab for me. First, I'm not a particularly adept swimmer, second the motion used for just about any stroke I can think of, including the forward crawl and the back stroke, causes me discomfort in my shoulders. I'll pass on the MMA as well, as that is how I got into this situation in the first place.
> 
> The question of whether I am overweight would depend on if you utilize the BMI or some other index. According to BMI tables, I came out of Basic Training overweight, with as close to a six pack as I've had in life. I came back from my last deployment in probably the best shape of my life at a bit over 200 pounds, running 5Ks and feeling great. I'm within ten pounds of that now and getting back into running, so I would say that isn't the issue so much.


hmm, discomfort in the shoulder is rather the point of doing it, or rather working through the discomfort untill you hac normal motion is, sharp stabbing pain on the other hand, may not be such a good idea


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> hmm, discomfort in the shoulder is rather the point of doing it, or rather working through the discomfort untill you hac normal motion is, sharp stabbing pain on the other hand, may not be such a good idea



How about the sudden sensation of pins and needles on steroids and tingling and slight numbness radiating down my arm that lasts for up to half an hour?

Then there is still the issue of drowning that concerns me somewhat.


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## jobo (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> How about the sudden sensation of pins and needles on steroids and tingling and slight numbness radiating down my arm that lasts for up to half an hour?
> 
> Then there is still the issue of drowning that concerns me somewhat.


no that's fine, perceiver , and buy some water wings

if you want to see DISCOMFORT, watch me trying to go into a deep horse stance, I wish it was only pins and needles and not screaming agony


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> no that's fine, perceiver , and buy some water wings
> 
> if you want to see DISCOMFORT, watch me trying to go into a deep horse stance, I wish it was only pins and needles and not screaming agony



Yeah, no offense, but I think I will take it up with my doctor and a physical therapist.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> How about the sudden sensation of pins and needles on steroids and tingling and slight numbness radiating down my arm that lasts for up to half an hour?
> 
> Then there is still the issue of drowning that concerns me somewhat.


Ah, drowning is demonized by the mainstream media. It's just water's way of getting closer.


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## jobo (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> Yeah, no offense, but I think I will take it up with my doctor and a physical therapist.


yea do that and you'll find yourself doing exercises to improve mobility that causes discomfort,as it's that or surgery and that,  it's not a surprise that using full range of motion is unpleasant if it's been years since you have done so, 

the original injury will have long since healed , the issue now is lack of circulations and wasted muscles, there's only one thing worse for a joint than moving it and that not moving it


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> yea do that and you'll find yourself doing exercises to improve mobility that causes discomfort,as it's that or surgery and that,  it's not a surprise that using full range of motion is unpleasant if it's been years since you have done so,
> 
> the original injury will have long since healed , the issue now is lack of circulations and wasted muscles, there's only one thing worse for a joint than moving it and that not moving it


 
I expect discomfort. I can deal with discomfort. Heck, I can deal with pain. I've dealt with my fair share over the years. If my doctor and a PT say that the sensations I am experiencing now are also normal during rehab, I'll let you know. I have a suspicion they are not. But, heck, what do I know?


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## JR 137 (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> I expect discomfort. I can deal with discomfort. Heck, I can deal with pain. I've dealt with my fair share over the years. If my doctor and a PT say that the sensations I am experiencing now are also normal during rehab, I'll let you know. I have a suspicion they are not. But, heck, what do I know?


For most shoulder injuries, swimming is one of the worst things for you.

I’ve been an athletic trainer (sports medicine) going on 18 years now. It’s good at the tail-end of rehab and for maintenance, but IMO that’s about it. 

Freestyle, backstroke and butterfly more so than other strokes. Then again, what’s really left?


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> For most shoulder injuries, swimming is one of the worst things for you.
> 
> I’ve been an athletic trainer (sports medicine) going on 18 years now. It’s good at the tail-end of rehab and for maintenance, but IMO that’s about it.
> 
> Freestyle, backstroke and butterfly more so than other strokes. Then again, what’s really left?



dog paddle?


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## JR 137 (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> dog paddle?


Pretty much.


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Pretty much.



Oh, and thanks for the insight.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2019)

DocWard said:


> dog paddle?


Or swimming like The Man From Atlantis.


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## DocWard (Jan 28, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Or swimming like The Man From Atlantis.



Patrick Duffy aka Bobby Ewing! a blast from the past!


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## jobo (Jan 28, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> For most shoulder injuries, swimming is one of the worst things for you.
> 
> I’ve been an athletic trainer (sports medicine) going on 18 years now. It’s good at the tail-end of rehab and for maintenance, but IMO that’s about it.
> 
> Freestyle, backstroke and butterfly more so than other strokes. Then again, what’s really left?


Breast stroke !


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## dvcochran (Jan 28, 2019)

jobo said:


> Breast stroke !


Aha, you beat me to it!


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