# Dating in the Dojo



## Nightingale

I've seen this brought up in the women's self defense forum and was curious as to what everyone's opinions were.

do you think its appropriate to form romantic relationships with people you meet at the dojo?


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Nightingale _
> *I've seen this brought up in the women's self defense forum and was curious as to what everyone's opinions were.
> 
> do you think its appropriate to form romantic relationships with people you meet at the dojo? *



ONly between students and then they have to think about it.

Between a student and instructor has the sexual discrimination lawsuit issue, and harassment lawsuit issue.

Also if things do not work out then the student feels like the must leave. OR if it was the student who broke it off then the instructor might start having problems. Just because they are martial artists does nto mean they do not get hurt from romance 

I have seen partnerships break up over a girl, and I have seen students leave clubs over this. This and dating at work are real tough issues to address.

:asian:


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

OK, I'm married to a woman I met at the Dojo.  I taught her intro-course.  One of my students was her Private-lesson instructor.  

I saw SEVERAL other successful marriages and attended some great weddings and bachelor parties.  I saw one marriage end in divorce.  I saw several dating relationships end badly with one person quitting the dojo.  I saw one guy who messed with his dojo girlfriend's teenage daughter wind up in jail for statutory.


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## Aegis

I voted for a sure, why not. However, I believe it is important to keep personal feelings off mat, so they don't influence how you train, or who you train with. I feel that dojo romances are like office romances, people always talk about the bad ones, but you never hear about the ones who met at work and are happily married.


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## Ender

My wife won't let me date....


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## KenpoTess

from an owner's viewpoint, it's a touchy situation.  We've had students bring in their significant others who join  and alls fine til they break up, and one leaves the school because they can't handle being in the same class.  We've made it known that it's not a healthy situation for us business-wise to lose good talented students in this manner. 

Sometimes it works.. other times it doesn't, every case will be unique.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

P.S. on dojo dating...I brought my 3-year old son into the BJJ school I attend.  His only question to the instuctor:  "Why aren't there any girls?"


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## liangzhicheng

I think that it depends on the situation.  Personally, I'd love to meet a gal who is into Tai Chi as much as I am, even better if she trains the same style.  How awesome that would be...training together would be quality time :rofl: , but back to the issue.  I think you'd have to ask yourself a few questions:
1. Could you keep the relationship out of the school?
2. What would you do if the relationship ended?
3. What's your teacher's view on relationships in the school?

Teacher/student, and even assistant-teacher/student relationships can be touchy.  But then again, doesn't love involve risk?


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

My wife and I were together for 3 years and lived together for 1 1/2 years before the owner figured it out.


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## Cruentus

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *  I taught her intro-course. *



High Five, pimp-juice!  :rofl: [sorry...couldn't resist!]


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## Cruentus

I've seen a lot of problems occur with dating in the Dojang. Even when I was single I kept it all business; I learned from my instructors mistakes.

I have seen/heard of situation where instructors use there precieved power as their primary mechanism to pick up chicks. I think that this is disrespectful to the arts that they represent.

I don't think that students should go to a MA class with the intention of "checking out the scenery" either.

However, I have seen a few situations were people meet at the Dojang and really hit it off. I have seen one circumstance where instructor/student met, and are now life long partners.

So, to each is own, I guess. If they aren't acting inappropriately in class, or using class as a pick-up joint, then I guess it's O.K..

Every situation is different, so it is too hard to come up with set "rules" in my opinion.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Paul: Hunh?

I din't date her until after she got her Orange Belt.  Anyway, I taught her intro course because the owner couldn't make it in that day.  She thought the technique "Lone Kimono" wasn't really a Karate move and that I was just trying to touch her....


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## Cruentus

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *Paul: Hunh?
> 
> I din't date her until after she got her Orange Belt.  Anyway, I taught her intro course because the owner couldn't make it in that day.  She thought the technique "Lone Kimono" wasn't really a Karate move and that I was just trying to touch her.... *



Yea...I remember you writing about the "Lone Kimono" in a different thread. That was pretty funny.

My comment was just a play on words. "Intro course" sounds like "intercourse." I was just expressing my goofy sense of humor!


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## arnisador

Only between students--but I won't condemn someone like *Old Fat Kenpoka* because every case is unique! If the student is older and hence more mature and confident isn't as big a deal, for example.

I don't approve of college profs. dating their students but I know of several successful marriages that started that way.


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## Daniel

I joined my first dojo with my girlfriend, we had a very, very messy breakup after many years but we both ended up leaving the school. Another school I dated a girl from there but she left the school awhile before we broke up.

Again as was stated by an earlier poster.... treat it like dating in the workplace. Some places frown on it, some are fine with it, but either way be ready to deal with it if things go south.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Thanks for not condemning me Arnisador.  We've been together 15 years and celebrated our 8th Anniversary labor day weekend.

I do think maturity plays a big part.  I was already 27 when we started dating...


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## arnisador

You're unique then--most guys are still pretty immature at 27 years!  

If something like works out, then fine, I say--no harm, no foul. But it's a very touchy situation and I think it's best just to have a rule about it. Being married makes it easy for me but otherwise I think one must set boundaries. If they're breached--it's a situation one must handle as one feels best. I don't think it's morally wrong for two adults to date in a situation like this (for the most part), I just think there are lots and lots of things tht could go very very wrong.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka

Agreed.  The relationships that failed (with one exception) ended very badly.


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## Cruentus

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *You're unique then--most guys are still pretty immature at 27 years!
> *



Hey...I'm 25....so I have at least 2 more years to be immature! :rofl:


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## jfarnsworth

I dated one *AFTER*  I left the studio.:asian:


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## don bohrer

I don't think if wise for the head instructor/ owner to date a student. However nothing says the student couldn't take a hiatis from training while they pursue the relationship. I do feel that healthy couples in the dojo are good for everyone.


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## Kroy

I think it's great if students want to date, many people come to martial art schools to meet new friends. As long as the smooching is kept outside the dojo.:ladysman:  But instructors (if they can) should try and persue a mate on the outside. I know it's difficult because most instructors spend so much time teaching and working that it's hard to meet knew people.


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## OULobo

I met my fiancee at college in a martial arts club. We were students together and I later moved into a lead instructor position in the club. We trained together for about 2 years and then started dating. I was her instructor for about 2 years. We continued the relationship and the training when we moved back home (we were both in the Cleveland area and chose to train at the same school) and moved in together a year later. Now we have been together 4+ years and I proposed to her at a demo at our current school after we performed a moro courtship dance. Needless to say it was a hit with all the pilipinos in the house.


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## Michael Billings

Very nice story.  Congrats and be happy!


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## Kroy

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *I met my fiancee at college in a martial arts club. We were students together and I later moved into a lead instructor position in the club. We trained together for about 2 years and then started dating. I was her instructor for about 2 years. We continued the relationship and the training when we moved back home (we were both in the Cleveland area and chose to train at the same school) and moved in together a year later. Now we have been together 4+ years and I proposed to her at a demo at our current school after we performed a moro courtship dance. Needless to say it was a hit with all the pilipinos in the house. *



Yes indeed, that was a nice story. Excuse my ignorance but what is a moro courtship dance (Japanese I assume)


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> *Yes indeed, that was a nice story. Excuse my ignorance but what is a moro courtship dance (Japanese I assume) *



Moro is a term given to the muslum tribes that inhabit the southern islands of the Philippines.


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## Kroy

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *Moro is a term given to the muslum tribes that inhabit the southern islands of the Philippines. *



Thanks OULobo, learn something new everyday. Is there any web sites out there that I could check it out?


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## arnisador

You could also ask in FMA-General. You'll find some info. by searching it.


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## Damian Mavis

I basically use my martial arts school as an oppurtunity to pick up woment that normally would have no interest in me.  It works out quite well for me, sure when I dump them because a prettier student joined I lose a student but what's one student here and there when I have the oppurtunity to be with so many good looking women out of my league?!..... Ok I'm lying but I do know a few instructors in my city that pretty much do exactly what I described and I find it disgusting.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD


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## Kroy

You had us worried Damian.


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## Shinzu

i say why not, but you need to consider the results before you make any hasty decisions.


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## theletch1

Dojo dating is a big part of the reason  that I left my first school.  The instructor had a habit of dating students that seemed to attain rank very quickly when they were completely lost on their material (when a brown II comes to me as a green for how to do a technique in the brown I set there is a problem) as well as several of the mothers of students in the kids class..... then add to that the fact that his WIFE was a student as well and you can see that simple dating was just a wee bit o' the problem.

Even after that horrendous experience I have to say that dating between students isn't necessarily an evil thing.  It does, however, require an extraordinary effort to make it work so as not to cause problems with the "cliques" that always form inside a school.  As for the instructor dating a student..... this one requires an even greater level of caution because there is such a possibilty of appearing to be too lenient or too hard on your partner.


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## FUZZYJ692000

Dating between students can be a heads or tails thing.  In some cases it ends badly when they break up and other cases if they split they still remain friends and act like adults and stick it out cause they love what they're doing.  It can be messy, like Kenpo Tess said we've lost students due to break ups but that happens.  As far as instructor-student, I don't think I'd have a problem with that either as long as there is no special treatment.  Once you walk through those doors you're in class not outside.  :asian:


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## TallAdam85

i think it would be nice to have a girlfriend to train with


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## liangzhicheng

> _Originally posted by TallAdam85 _
> *i think it would be nice to have a girlfriend to train with *



Couldn't agree with you more, gotta love women who can kick butt :asian:


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## Cruentus

> _Originally posted by TallAdam85 _
> *i think it would be nice to have a girlfriend to train with *



Me too! (as my nuts get smashed in by my Fiancee)

:btg: :lol:


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## arnisador

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Spud

I was checking out a dojo last night (switching schools and styles) I found it kind of odd that the instructor emphasized the number of nice young ladies in the middle ranks, but didnt really answer my questions on training material :shrug:


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Spud _
> *I was checking out a dojo last night (switching schools and styles) I found it kind of odd that the instructor emphasized the number of nice young ladies in the middle ranks, but didnt really answer my questions on training material  *



Sheesh!

One wonders if it's what he thought _you_ would like about the school, or if it's what _he_ likes about the school!


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## hardheadjarhead

I met my wife through the martial arts.  If there had been a "school rule" against relationships, we'd have likely never hooked up.  Our thirteenth anniversary is coming up.

We've had four relationships form and end up as marriages in our school.  Only one of them resulted in a divorce...which places that ahead of the national average regarding divorces.

This is what I tell my black belts to keep in mind:

1.  The school isn't a meat market.  Anybody attempting to make it one is going to take a hike.

2.  The sanctity of marriage has to be respected.  If one of the two is married, that isn't going to fly.

3.  If things go south, keep it out of the school.  Had a guy and his wife sign up.  Two years later they were splitting up.  He tried to recruit people to side with him...I called him into the office and told him to keep his grievances off of the mat and out of the school.  He could go and cry in his beer with anyone, anywhere, but not within the boundaries of my place.

Its worked pretty well over the last 12 years.

SCS


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## MartialArtsChic

> _Originally posted by liangzhicheng _
> *Couldn't agree with you more, gotta love women who can kick butt :asian: *



Interesting.  Most of the guys I come across are intimidated by a woman who can kick butt!


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by MartialArtsChic _
> *Interesting.  Most of the guys I come across are intimidated by a woman who can kick butt! *



That just means they aren't very secure with their abilities.


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## hardheadjarhead

_Interesting. Most of the guys I come across are intimidated by a woman who can kick butt!_ 


For me it would be a REQUIREMENT.  If not the skills, the attitude.

I can't stand weak women.

SCS


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Interesting. Most of the guys I come across are intimidated by a woman who can kick butt!
> 
> 
> For me it would be a REQUIREMENT.  If not the skills, the attitude.
> 
> I can't stand weak women.
> 
> SCS *



What you all have been saying


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## MartialArtsChic

It doesn't really matter to me if people date or not as long as it doesn't get in the way of my training.  If I have to stand there while you throw googlie eyes at your boyfriend/girlfriend or play games, then there's a problem.

On another note:  It is nice to read that some guys out there like a girl who can kick butt!!!!!


Lorrie


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## hardheadjarhead

> On another note: It is nice to read that some guys out there like a girl who can kick butt!!!!!



You bet I like women that can kick butt.

Sigourney Weaver-Alien(s)
Linda Hamilton-Terminator
Michelle Yeoh-Wing Chun

These women marked me for life.  They got away from the root-tripping-over, ankle twisting, swooning, "let me go you beast, you're hurting me" women of the 1940's-50's.  

Now I know they're actresses...but they portray an ideal.  

And the actual women out there often live up to it.  


Regards,

Steve


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *You bet I like women that can kick butt.
> 
> Sigourney Weaver-Alien(s)
> Linda Hamilton-Terminator
> Michelle Yeoh-Wing Chun
> 
> These women marked me for life.  They got away from the root-tripping-over, ankle twisting, swooning, "let me go you beast, you're hurting me" women of the 1940's-50's.
> 
> Now I know they're actresses...but they portray an ideal.
> 
> And the actual women out there often live up to it.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve *



Steve,

I agree with your selection! And I also like women who kick butt. The girls can go out with the boys. 

:asian:


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## arnisador

I never dated a fellow martial artist! My wife was into equestrian sports.


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## hardheadjarhead

Hey, even then, its a sport...even if she is just horsing around.

If she can't be a fighter, she has to be an athlete.

Steve


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## Quick Sand

A agree with MartialArtsChic. It is nice to see guys that respect strong women that can kick butt. I've found the best role models in the women like that. 

Some other butt kicking chicks in movies/tv:

Demi Moore in G. I. Jane
Anglina Jolie in Tomb Raider
Lucy Lawless in Xena: Warrior Princess (I was young and thought it was cool. Give me a break okay.  )
And lots of others that I can't specifically remember right now.

As for dating in the dojo/dojang. Like most people are saying. It's fine as long is it doesn't interfere with training. We had one couple get married this past summer from our club. I personally would like to find a guy that is at least into Martial Arts. He doesn't have to be in my art but that wouldn't hurt either. It would be nice to have a training partner.


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## MartialArtsChic

> _Originally posted by Quick Sand _
> *I personally would like to find a guy that is at least into Martial Arts. He doesn't have to be in my art but that wouldn't hurt either. It would be nice to have a training partner. *



Yes, I agree, it would be nice.


Lorrie


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## Nightingale

> _Originally posted by Quick Sand _
> *A agree with MartialArtsChic. It is nice to see guys that respect strong women that can kick butt. I've found the best role models in the women like that.
> 
> Some other butt kicking chicks in movies/tv:
> 
> Demi Moore in G. I. Jane
> Anglina Jolie in Tomb Raider
> Lucy Lawless in Xena: Warrior Princess (I was young and thought it was cool. Give me a break okay.  )
> And lots of others that I can't specifically remember right now.
> 
> *




Lucy Lawless's Xena brought a LOT of girls in to train!  She was a real hit with the 8-14 crowd.


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## hardheadjarhead

How did I forget Lucy Lawless?  She should be top of my list!


Steve


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## donald

O.F.K.,

That Lone Kimono comment was a riot... How did you convince her otherwise? I voted for sure, but consider the consequences. I only know of one student/instructor date situation personally. It took several years but it came to an end. By then he had been training her in his own version of kenpo, and then she was adrift. No training partners,no instructor, no studio. She ended up trying to hook up with an EPAK guy for certification, but did'nt follow through. My guess would be, too long with the other guy's material, and did'nt have the desire to start over again? She was really talented too. I hope there are more happy endings out there. Than these crash, and burn scenerios.

By His Grace,
  :asian:


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## hardheadjarhead

I've seen schools where guys and gals use it as a meat market...literally cruising through the class.  THAT doesn't work.  

As far as legitimate, serious relationships...at the very least they'd have the same miserable success rate as other relationships go in our culture (fifty percent divorce rate).  

That relationship can be threatened by certain dynamics of a couple training together.  If she is teaching him (or vice versa), favoritism can result...which causes friction with other students.  The reverse can happen too, where the teacher is too hard on the student due to higher expectations.  That causes friction between the couple.  Its a similar dynamic as that which occurs when a couple work together, say, in a family business.

Steve


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## Chronuss

..it'd be great to date a female martial artist...I love a woman that can kick my ***.


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## KenpoTess

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *..it'd be great to date a female martial artist...I love a woman that can kick my ***.    *



do you know how many times you've used that phrase ...  Besides.. it's not hard to kick your ***..:rofl:


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *do you know how many times you've used that phrase ...  Besides.. it's not hard to kick your ***..:rofl: *



Tess,

This was a very funny thing to read this morning. :rofl: 

Thank You
 :asian:


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## hardheadjarhead

There are guys out there who pay a LOT of money for women to kick their asses.  I saw a post to a Newsgroup where a guy was offering a woman $200.00 for an hour of it.  

Sounds like a cottage industry for the women of this board.

That isn't really "dating", though.  Or is it?

"Hey, Bill...how'd you get that black eye?"

"Hot date last night..."

"Whoa!  She got a sister?"


Steve


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## Chronuss

> Originally posted by KenpoTess
> *do you know how many times you've used that phrase ...  Besides.. it's not hard to kick your ***..:rofl: *



says you woman...how many times have I rested my foot on your shoulder and not followed through...?


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## KenpoTess

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *says you woman...how many times have I rested my foot on your shoulder and not followed through...? *




and how many times have I *let*  you rest your foot on my shoulder..........


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## Nightingale

Tess...

I am sensing a challenge here...

-Nightingale
(anticipating news of chronuss' demise)


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## FUZZYJ692000

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *..it'd be great to date a female martial artist...I love a woman that can kick my ***.    *



You don't have to date a female in martial artist to have your *** kicked by one of them...we like to kick you any how


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## Chronuss

...and how many times does that kick make contact..?  :EG:


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## TheRustyOne

If it's one on one, or all together....


*keeps back comment* :angel:


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## FUZZYJ692000

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *...and how many times does that kick make contact..?  :EG: *



your rear end is an area my foot can reach, however your head is a different story


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## TheRustyOne

> _Originally posted by FUZZYJ692000 _
> *your rear end is an area my foot can reach, however your head is a different story  *




which head?


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## Chronuss

> Originally posted by TheRustyOne
> *which head? *



::smack::  the one on my shoulders...:ubercool:   ...but you can only reach that one when I stoop down.


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## TheRustyOne

well get down here!


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## Chronuss

gotta land the kick first...


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## TheRustyOne

damn...


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## Chronuss

ha!  :EG:


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## TheRustyOne

...beast...*sniff*


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## Chronuss

> Originally posted by TheRustyOne
> *...beast... *



always.


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## TheRustyOne

*sniff sniff*


worm-headed beast...


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## Chronuss

...hrm...::blink::...no...just beast...


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## TheRustyOne

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *...hrm...::blink::...no...just beast... *



*no comment*


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## Chronuss

...you don't get in trouble when you don't say anything.


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## KenpoTess

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _
> *...hrm...::blink::...no...just beast... *



Deja Vu~!!!  I swear I just saw you doing this.. standing next to me.. hrmin'g and *blinking* and saying .. no Just beast"  yeppers.. It wasn't a dream~!

*lopper pinch*


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## hardheadjarhead

Cheez.  One word posts.

These folks will be up to Black Belt rank waaaaaaay before me.

Its a McForum!  A McForum, I tell ya!  They just shoot people up through the ranks without them working for it.  And me, I'm out their busting my butt with these long jeremiads, meandering philosophical rants, and long winded attempts at obsfucation.  

I call for a return to the days of old!  Bring back the run on sentence!  Give me polysyllabry!  Make people run to the thesaurus!  

By the way, every time I write...I do it while in the one arm push up position,  balancing a cup of sake on my head.  TRY THAT!

<grumble>

Steve


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## Seig

Steve, I sympathize with you.  Now I have to kick Chronuss, Rusty and Fuzzy in their respective heads.......


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## cali_tkdbruin

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Steve, I sympathize with you.  Now I have to kick Chronuss, Rusty and Fuzzy in their respective heads....... *



Or their respective *NADS*!:rofl: :rofl:


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## cali_tkdbruin

And, how about if we change the heading of this thread to
*DATING in the DOJANG* since there are Korean MA practitioners exchanging thoughts and ideas up in here!!! 
Are we the forgotten Arts or what...


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## KenpoTess

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *And, how about if we change the heading of this thread to
> DATING in the DOJANG since there are Korean MA practitioners exchanging thoughts and ideas up in here!!!
> Are we the forgotten Arts or what...  *



Most American Kenpoists don't call it a Dojo .. We call it a Studio


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## theletch1

Seig and Cali!! I was just wondering where the two of you had disappeared to.  I know that Seig was off huntin' Bambi (when's dinner?).  Cali, I hope you didn't have any problems with the fires out there.  Nothing really to add to the thread, just wanted to say howdy to the two of you.

Steve, your posts often read like a pro/con report.  Plenty of detailed info and lots of embellishments.  Think more along the line of a SITREP for your posts and you'll be a blackbelt in no time   Glad to see another old Leatherneck that can put more than two words together at a time to disprove the old stereotype.
Semper Fi.


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin _
> *Or their respective NADS!:rofl: :rofl: *


Only one of them has nads.


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by theletch1 _
> *Seig and Cali!! I was just wondering where the two of you had disappeared to.  I know that Seig was off huntin' Bambi (when's dinner?).  Cali, I hope you didn't have any problems with the fires out there.  Nothing really to add to the thread, just wanted to say howdy to the two of you.
> 
> Steve, your posts often read like a pro/con report.  Plenty of detailed info and lots of embellishments.  Think more along the line of a SITREP for your posts and you'll be a blackbelt in no time   Glad to see another old Leatherneck that can put more than two words together at a time to disprove the old stereotype.
> Semper Fi. *


Bambi is in a cooler beside my house awaiting the final date with my knife.


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## hardheadjarhead

> Steve, your posts often read like a pro/con report. Plenty of detailed info and lots of embellishments. Think more along the line of a SITREP for your posts and you'll be a blackbelt in no time



Roger!



Steve


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## FUZZYJ692000

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Steve, I sympathize with you.  Now I have to kick Chronuss, Rusty and Fuzzy in their respective heads....... *



ME!!!  Yicks, what did i do now?   .  I haven't been on here for a while any how so I had to give someone a hard time who better than Chronuss and Rusty


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## hardheadjarhead

Seig,

You'll love this page.  There are recipes on there, too...

http://www.treefort.org/~rgrogan/web/bambi.htm


Steve


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by FUZZYJ692000 _
> *ME!!!  Yicks, what did i do now?   .  I haven't been on here for a while any how so I had to give someone a hard time who better than Chronuss and Rusty  *


You just haven't been around enough lately, so you need to be kicked in the head.


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## KenpoTess

FUZZYJ692000 said:
			
		

> ME!!!  Yicks, what did i do now?   .  I haven't been on here for a while any how so I had to give someone a hard time who better than Chronuss and Rusty



What am I? chicken livers   *G*


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## FUZZYJ692000

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> What am I? chicken livers   *G*



No i don't like liver of any sort except for my own.  No Chronuss and Rusty are just more fun to harass cause they normally deserve it.  Don't want to harass you too much you didn't get the quenn of pain thing for no reason


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## Cryozombie

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Most American Kenpoists don't call it a Dojo .. We call it a Studio



We just call it "Vic's Basement" 

Hehe


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## c2kenpo

Since I am just getting back into the swing of things again.

My answer is I cannot stop students from dating each other. I can only offer advice and warnings about potential hazzards that they might encounter if a problem should arise and both of them come to class.
However as an instructor it is not my place to deem who can date whom.

Instructor - student dating. I am against this for too many reasons to list. However there have been people who ask me if assistants can date. I feel that it is within thier rights as individuals however I would suggest extreme caution and care in that relationship.

First and foremost tho is the happiness and wellbeing of the students.

JMHO

Dave :asian:


----------



## edhead2000

There's a guy at the studio I'd LIKE to date!  haha.


----------



## KenpoTess

*biting tongue*


----------



## edhead2000

what? he's cute!   probably taken, but at least he's not sleeping with everyone in the studio......unless he's gay.    would be my luck.


----------



## arnisador

Go for it!


----------



## edhead2000

arnisador said:
			
		

> Go for it!


 You're such a good coach.........but I'm too shy to ask him!


----------



## KenpoGirl

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> You're such a good coach.........but I'm too shy to ask him!


Tend to be my problem, to chicken to make the first move.  BUT I also realize I ain't gonna get anywhere if I don't.

As Dr. Phil says ......

"If you don't put yourself out there, you're not going to find someone.  Unless you expect him to jump on the hood of your car one day, you gotta take the chance"    Not an exact quote, but you get the idea.

There's a pool hall here in town, they have started what's called the "Dating Pool".  It's speed dating with pool tables.  Each single girl gets a pool table the single guys rotate from table to table introducing themselves, they only stay for 8 minutes.  This is something I'm seriously thinking of trying, but I want another single female friend to go with me.  So I have to convince her.

I'll let you know what happens.

Dot


----------



## arnisador

Dating pool sounds like a great idea!

As to asking the guy, you don't need to go that far if you don't want to--it's enough to say "Anyone want to stop for a drink/ice cream/a movie/etc. now that class is over?" If several people come, use the time to hang out near him. Make up an excuse to ask for a ride home/to a friend's that lives near him/etc.!

Is he good at anything other than martial arts? Ask for advice on carpentry/winemaking/air conditioner repair/whatever he knows!

You can attack directly or indirectly, but ATTACK!


----------



## edhead2000

arnisador said:
			
		

> You can attack directly or indirectly, but ATTACK!


That might get me hurt!   Going around randomly attacking guys.....hehe.


----------



## jeffbeish

Well, I dated one of my students and ended up marrying her!  That was 39 years ago


----------



## KenpoTess

*note* To Whom it may concern: Don't mess with 'Mine'.....................


----------



## Rich Parsons

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> *note* To Whom it may concern: Don't mess with 'Mine'.....................



 :idunno: How me ?  :idunno: 

Tess breathed a sigh a relief when I told her I was not there to meet her female students.  It is the truth. If we meet and have a friendship for a while then a relationship happens that is different. Just my opinion and style.
 :asian:


----------



## edhead2000

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> *note* To Whom it may concern: Don't mess with 'Mine'.....................


I thought threats weren't tolerated on MT. Or is it ok for the mods to make general threats?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> I thought threats weren't tolerated on MT. Or is it ok for the mods to make general threats?


No, threats aren't.  Take the personal issues off-board.
This isn't the place to air dirty laundry.


----------



## satans.barber

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> No, threats aren't.  Take the personal issues off-board.
> This isn't the place to air dirty laundry.



I'm sure Tess meant it tounge-in-cheek...!

Ian.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

It might be, but given the response, it was felt there may be something off-board being brought up, and I for one would prefer the ladies to resolve such things quietly, if they do in fact exist.


----------



## ParrotheadTPA

Hello,

I notice there hasn't been a post on this topic in a while, but I wanted to post on this and see what the response is.  I am on the other end of the spectrum than alot of the posts.  I am a student and am kinda intrested in one of my instructors.  The other difference is the instructor is the female in this case.  I don't have any clue if she knows I'm interested.

I have been a little afraid to approach the situation because I don't know if it would be considered appropriate or not.  And to face facts, I'm a big chicken in the dating world as it is anyway, so I'm just a little afraid of asking her out (even if the instructor-student) thing wasn't present.

I don't see it causing a big problem.  I am the only single adult male (actually the only single adult period) in the class.  There are a couple of other married guys and quite a few kids.  There's another female instructor, that's it.  I get the feeling that we could easily agree to keep things on the student-instructor level during class.  And I've never had a relationship end so badly that we weren't at least on speaking terms afterwards.  If I'm not mistaken our Master Instructor met his wife that way and so did our Grand Master.  So I know it can work.


So what do you think?  Think I should give it a shot?


----------



## kenpo tiger

ParrotheadTPA said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I notice there hasn't been a post on this topic in a while, but I wanted to post on this and see what the response is. I am on the other end of the spectrum than alot of the posts. I am a student and am kinda intrested in one of my instructors. The other difference is the instructor is the female in this case. I don't have any clue if she knows I'm interested.
> 
> I have been a little afraid to approach the situation because I don't know if it would be considered appropriate or not. And to face facts, I'm a big chicken in the dating world as it is anyway, so I'm just a little afraid of asking her out (even if the instructor-student) thing wasn't present.
> 
> I don't see it causing a big problem. I am the only single adult male (actually the only single adult period) in the class. There are a couple of other married guys and quite a few kids. There's another female instructor, that's it. I get the feeling that we could easily agree to keep things on the student-instructor level during class. And I've never had a relationship end so badly that we weren't at least on speaking terms afterwards. If I'm not mistaken our Master Instructor met his wife that way and so did our Grand Master. So I know it can work.
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Think I should give it a shot?


I think what you need to get from all the posts on here is the one main idea:  caution is advised.

Personally, I wouldn't want to jeopardize my training.

All the men I train with are my friends - and we are, for the most part, all happily married.  Then again, we're all older (and maybe wiser??!!:idunno: )


----------



## shesulsa

I married my first teacher...then promptly divorced him a few years later.  I just knew it would work.

 I have to agree with Kenpo Tiger - caution is advised...personally, I no longer make use of latrine facilities where I consume edibles (get it?)

 HWARANG!


----------



## FUZZYJ692000

ParrotheadTPA said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> I notice there hasn't been a post on this topic in a while, but I wanted to post on this and see what the response is.  I am on the other end of the spectrum than alot of the posts.  I am a student and am kinda intrested in one of my instructors.  The other difference is the instructor is the female in this case.  I don't have any clue if she knows I'm interested.
> 
> I have been a little afraid to approach the situation because I don't know if it would be considered appropriate or not.  And to face facts, I'm a big chicken in the dating world as it is anyway, so I'm just a little afraid of asking her out (even if the instructor-student) thing wasn't present.
> 
> I don't see it causing a big problem.  I am the only single adult male (actually the only single adult period) in the class.  There are a couple of other married guys and quite a few kids.  There's another female instructor, that's it.  I get the feeling that we could easily agree to keep things on the student-instructor level during class.  And I've never had a relationship end so badly that we weren't at least on speaking terms afterwards.  If I'm not mistaken our Master Instructor met his wife that way and so did our Grand Master.  So I know it can work.
> 
> 
> So what do you think?  Think I should give it a shot?



Parrothead...i must agree, that there always needs to be caution especially considering that the dojo is a place of not only learning but it is also a business.  Even though you may believe that you know a person it doesn't mean that person is who you think they are outside of class.  Just remember that if you decide to proceed on trying to start something with this female instructor make sure you take into consideration what will happen if the "relationship" goes sour.  When it comes down to it if something goes wrong there is always the possibility that one of you may choose not to train at that particular dojo and that means not only does one of you have to stop attending training but also the school suffers because of it.  On the other hand things may work out great and then you wouldn't have to worry about it.  Just make sure you weigh out your pros and cons first.


----------



## ParrotheadTPA

Thanks for the replies.  I definitely understand the caution thing.  So I guess what I'm getting from this is that its one of those wonderful "grey areas" with no right or wrong answer and it would be taking a chance.  Possibly one worth taking, possibly not.

Just as an extra bit of info and in response to a previous reply, without going into too many details, I will mention that my particular school is not a business and the instructors are volunteers.  

At any rate I will continue to weigh this out very cautiously and maybe ask our Master Instructor about his own experience and see what knowledge I can impart from him.


----------



## shesulsa

Okay - so...what I see happening a lot is that when two students date each other and then split up, one of them usually leaves the class.  And when a student dates a teacher, it so very rarely works out that things are left on a student/teacher basis, to me, it truly isn't worth it.

 If I sound like I'm trying to discourage you from carrying forward, you'd be right.


----------



## dubljay

I would be very very careful in dating some one from the same dojo as me... Some people I know tried it and it did not work out well at all.


----------



## Cryozombie

Its been so long, I just gotta ask...

"Whats Dating?"

 :boing2:


----------



## Rich Parsons

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Its been so long, I just gotta ask...
> 
> "Whats Dating?"
> 
> :boing2:



What is dating?

Dating to most people is putting themselves into another persons control, will they say yes or no? Will they like me for me or for this or that? To many it is scary.

Your person is not defined by the other person and if they do or do not go out with you.



I have said this before, I personally would not date from the same dojo nor at work. It just has too many complications, and more have failed then I know have succeeded. It brings in issues of sexual harassment, and other issues. 

Yet, if in the face of caution and total desire, you wish to move forward, not only do I recommend that you go slow and become friends, do it out side of the dojo as well. A group luncheon or movie event, or everyone helping a member move or some such idea. Throw a party for all members, or  a cook out, and invite your family and friends and also the members and their families. If you talk and things are good and friendly outside of the dojo, then maybe it is mutual attraction and not a student teacher attraction.


 :asian:


----------



## arnisador

Step lightly. Starting out with group events as suggested is something to really consider.

If it there's a break-up, would you feel comfortable staying at the school? Are you willing to risk leaving it?


----------



## shesulsa

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Its been so long, I just gotta ask...
> 
> "Whats Dating?"
> 
> :boing2:


 He he he.  Well, for me, dating has now become, how fast can we eat and see a short movie before we have to pay the babysitter $100.00???

 So, it's more like two pigs at a trough, shovelling it in, each behind his/her respective publications of choice, one pays the check while the other gets the car, the driver drives the check-payer (him, of course ) to the ticket window while she parks, then races in right at the end of the trailers, hold a desperately full bladder through a compromised-upon, very boring and time-wasting flick, race out, empty said bladder, be ready for dancing and drinks only to go pick up the rugrats, cuddle them and tuck them in bed (if I don't fall asleep first!).

 So...that's dating in the married (or post-children) world.
artyon:


----------



## Rich Parsons

shesulsa said:
			
		

> He he he.  Well, for me, dating has now become, how fast can we eat and see a short movie before we have to pay the babysitter $100.00???
> 
> So, it's more like two pigs at a trough, shovelling it in, each behind his/her respective publications of choice, one pays the check while the other gets the car, the driver drives the check-payer (him, of course ) to the ticket window while she parks, then races in right at the end of the trailers, hold a desperately full bladder through a compromised-upon, very boring and time-wasting flick, race out, empty said bladder, be ready for dancing and drinks only to go pick up the rugrats, cuddle them and tuck them in bed (if I don't fall asleep first!).
> 
> So...that's dating in the married (or post-children) world.
> artyon:




SHHHH!  Truth like this might end the human race


----------



## shesulsa

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> SHHHH!  Truth like this might end the human race


 LOL - I dunno, it didn't stop me from procreating....wait...maybe I shouldn't have said that - lolol


----------



## jfarnsworth

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> SHHHH!  Truth like this might end the human race



Brother Rich, she's tellin' the truth.   :asian:


----------



## jfarnsworth

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Okay - so...what I see happening a lot is that when two students date each other and then split up, one of them usually leaves the class.  And when a student dates a teacher, it so very rarely works out that things are left on a student/teacher basis, to me, it truly isn't worth it.
> 
> If I sound like I'm trying to discourage you from carrying forward, you'd be right.




Agreed! When things turn sour then it's bad for everyone. The instructor/school/student's feel the tension. It just really isn't worth it in the end. :asian:


----------



## Rich Parsons

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> Brother Rich, she's tellin' the truth.   :asian:




Good thing I am single and no where near in danger of this happening to me     :asian:


----------



## Feisty Mouse

I would be a complete hypocrite if I did not say that it is possible.  I think the people involved would do better if neither were "drama queen/king" types.  It sounds like others here have posted about romances blossoming quietly, out of the limelight.  

And I think that it's inevitable that feelings - reciprocated or not - will spring up in training.  People are interested in who they are interested in - it happens, not matter what the situation.  Even among different ranks in the military.   Hopefully things can develop without too much public involvement or effect on the training situation for others.


----------



## Chrono

You know what? I was just going to ask a girl in class if she was single. There are a couple of people there that are presently going out. I don't see anything wrong with it. I've seen a lot of people, especially at E-Budo, where they've met their wives on the mat.


----------



## TigerWoman

I haven't seen any dating working out but most of the dating was being done by the master instructor in our school.  Finally when it reached a 18 yr. old student and it was a matter more of being taken advantage of than love, then it becomes plainly WRONG.  A year later, he was in love again...  Instructors who are in a position to influence their students as being someone they should respect but cannot question, promote themselves as father figures and use people for their own advantage should not be in martial arts. TW


----------



## Feisty Mouse

> I haven't seen any dating working out but most of the dating was being done by the master instructor in our school. Finally when it reached a 18 yr. old student and it was a matter more of being taken advantage of than love, then it becomes plainly WRONG.


Wow. No kidding! One guy I trained with (NOT an instructor at my school) in a class was telling me about how he uses his MA to hit on women - basically impressing girls with his stories about himself, and then offering her free lessons, and while teaching, hitting on her. He looked very pleased with himself, and said, "works every time!"

It's too bad I can't replicate my look of disgust and contempt here. I said, "THAT'S cool!" in a very sarcastic tone, shaking my head, and turned on my heel. I was revolted.


----------



## Kevin Walker

Not a good idea.


----------



## Enson

Ender said:
			
		

> My wife won't let me date....


mine either! hee hee! 
peace


----------



## Chrono

Dating's so hard anyway, or, at least, trying to get a date.


----------



## kenpo tiger

Chrono said:
			
		

> You know what? I was just going to ask a girl in class if she was single. There are a couple of people there that are presently going out. I don't see anything wrong with it. I've seen a lot of people, especially at E-Budo, where they've met their wives on the mat.


Chrono, I hope you re-read the preceding posts in this thread.  That being said, if you are single and willing to take the chance that if you do date someone you train with (who is also single) and it doesn't work out either or both of you will be uncomfortable -- then by all means ask her out.  I think that's the main point here.  If it interferes with your training, do you want to risk it and possibly start over somewhere else?  Good luck, whatever you decide.  KT


----------



## Chrono

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Chrono, I hope you re-read the preceding posts in this thread. That being said, if you are single and willing to take the chance that if you do date someone you train with (who is also single) and it doesn't work out either or both of you will be uncomfortable -- then by all means ask her out. I think that's the main point here. If it interferes with your training, do you want to risk it and possibly start over somewhere else? Good luck, whatever you decide. KT


 I should probably read all the posts, as you suggest. I don't see how it would be uncomfortable for me. I mean, if I can continue being friends with a girl who, I guess, stood me up before, then this shouldn't be a problem. Of course, that is still unknown about how she may feel, thought, I think it's the same I'm lead to believe.


----------



## Ceicei

Chrono said:
			
		

> I should probably read all the posts, as you suggest. I don't see how it would be uncomfortable for me. I mean, if I can continue being friends with a girl who, I guess, stood me up before, then this shouldn't be a problem. Of course, that is still unknown about how she may feel, thought, I think it's the same I'm lead to believe.


There is more to dating than just being stood up.  What if you did find somebody that you like and who likes you?  What if both of you became serious, perhaps even intimate?  What if something came up that caused the relationship to go sour?  Would it be possible to go back to "only a friends basis" after having become serious with each other?  

Many people find that's pretty difficult to do.  Some have a hard time putting aside feelings (whether good or bad) that a relationship/past relationship evokes while training in the dojo.  This is the reason that makes training difficult to continue for one or both individuals (and for others too, if they sense there is a change in behavior or tension).

- Ceicei


----------



## OC Kid

I know a guy who married someone he met there. I also dated my ex for about 5 years while training in the same dojo. Though she dropped me and married a guy she met in the same dojo..:>) oh well after 5 years of intense therapy Im finally over it..:>)


----------



## mj-hi-yah

OC Kid said:
			
		

> I also dated my ex for about 5 years while training in the same dojo. Though she dropped me and married a guy she met in the same dojo..:>) oh well after 5 years of intense therapy Im finally over it..:>)


 OC KID you must be kidding...who'd dump a nice guy like you????   

I think lightening strikes where it will and sometimes attractions happen the same way. :whip:   I don't see how you can control human nature it'd be like trying to tell the clouds not to storm!


----------



## Chrono

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Would it be possible to go back to "only a friends basis" after having become serious with each other?


 I don't see how hard that can be. If I remember correctly, she and another guy used to date and broke it off. Of course, that was before I started training there.


----------



## Ceicei

Chrono said:
			
		

> I don't see how hard that can be. If I remember correctly, she and another guy used to date and broke it off. Of course, that was before I started training there.


How hard can it be?  Ummm, I guess for you to find out how tough a relationship could be, you'll have experience one. You probably will one of these days at some point in your life.  There are different levels and degrees of dating and relationships.  For this, life is the best teacher and taskmaster.

- Ceicei


----------



## Chrono

Ceicei said:
			
		

> How hard can it be? Ummm, I guess for you to find out how tough a relationship could be, you'll have experience one. You probably will one of these days at some point in your life. There are different levels and degrees of dating and relationships. For this, life is the best teacher and taskmaster.


 That's true. I'm probably one of the most inexperienced guys you'll ever know when it comes to relationships. If I told you my age, I'm sure you wouldn't believe me. Or, at least, you'd swear I was younger.


----------



## Ceicei

Chrono said:
			
		

> That's true. I'm probably one of the most inexperienced guys you'll ever know when it comes to relationships. If I told you my age, I'm sure you wouldn't believe me. Or, at least, you'd swear I was younger.


Dare I ask?  Your personal profile doesn't say much about you...

- Ceicei


----------



## Chrono

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Dare I ask?  Your personal profile doesn't say much about you...


 Sorry, I guess I should do that. I'm 20, by the way.


----------



## Ceicei

Chrono said:
			
		

> Sorry, I guess I should do that. I'm 20, by the way.


20? Ummmm.... Better enjoy being 20 as long as you can.  It's a fun age!!!

- Ceicei


----------



## TKD USA

Waaa! I want some girl I can spend time with and train with.


----------



## Feisty Mouse

TKD - that's on the upside of dating/seeing/being married to a training partner - pick-up training sessions.


----------



## jfarnsworth

Chrono said:
			
		

> Sorry, I guess I should do that. I'm 20, by the way.


20?!?!?!?!?!
Take some personal advice from me. I've made every possible bad/wrong mistake in life that one could think of. If anything was the wrong or the hard way that's the path I took. 
My advice to you is enjoy being 20 and your 20's do ocassionally date, don't get tied down, lastly don't date the woman in the dojo. 
When I was teaching for my first M.A. instructor there was a woman there that I had known from high school. I always thought she was attractive and one day many years after leaving the school she and I had crossed paths and started dating. I'll tell you from first hand experience that there's no way during/after our relationship could I have ever hit her again (even if it were sparring). I loved her very much and she crushed my heart into as small of pieces as you could think. Had our relationship started in the studio it would have been disasterous. Please stay friendly but don't start an intimate relationship as the whole studio would feel the after effects. :asian:


----------



## Chrono

Thanks, Jason. I may just take your advice.


----------



## Mark L

I would never date anyone from the dojo.  What if my wife were to find out?

Kidding...  

I did that many years back and it wasn't pleasant.  The instructors at that school (I confess, a McDojo of sorts) took advantage of the situation.  They had us battle each other at every opportunity, I just didn't have it in me to strike someone for whom I had deep feelings.  So I used to get thumped, but it did sharpen my defensive skills.


----------



## sandstorm

I voted sure, why not...

My sister was attracted to one of our sensei's the first time she met him. Whenever he touched her arms to put them into the correct position, she got jolts of electricity!!! Lucky we were so hot and sweaty all the time - it hid her blushing 

It took almost 3 years for them to get together (at the dojo christmas party of all things ) and they've been together since (about another 3 years)

They've started up their own dojo together (still affliliated with the main dojo) and are planning to move in together this October. The relationship was a bit of a secret for the first year, but when it came out, nobody at the dojo was adverse to it.


----------



## Chrono

sandstorm said:
			
		

> at the dojo christmas party of all things


 Y'all have those things?


----------



## WildCater

I think you have to think about what you are doing first, I mean one or the other is probabaly going to be a higher rank, and when people brake up they usualy dont like being around there X. and that will ruin buissness for the master.


----------



## Feisty Mouse

Hey Chrono

Well, I would weigh in with a "why not?" again, assuming that you would be OK to train there if things didn't work out.

It's funny what some of the others have said here - my boyfriend has no problem training with me just as he did before - if anything, I am the one who has the trouble - he just switches into training mode, I think, which is very natural for him, and it's not a problem.  Then I'm just another training partner.


----------



## WildCater

But I really dont care. Thats my opinion.


----------



## sandstorm

Chrono said:
			
		

> Y'all have those things?



Yup, it's more for the kids, though... then they go home and the adults go out and party


----------



## FUZZYJ692000

sandstorm said:
			
		

> Yup, it's more for the kids, though... then they go home and the adults go out and party



yup yup...we have x-mas parties too....i think we have more fun then the kids do....plus ours normally turns into a snowbal fight or someone gets pounced....either way we do go out or back over to someone elses to continue our fun.


----------



## Chrono

sandstorm said:
			
		

> Yup, it's more for the kids, though... then they go home and the adults go out and party


 The only thing we did for Christmas was only have class for two days and was off the rest of the week. They did the same for New Years.


----------



## KenpoTess

We have parties for the school at least 2x a year.. People bring their dates, families, other half.. Had a Great one Memorial Day..

and commenting on the topic.. as one of the school owners.. I have witnessed the mishaps of dating in the dojo.. as I've said in previous posts.. 
We had a few instances during classes at Shepherd U.  couples not thinking anything about it, making out right before line-up,  *that was dealt with quickly*.. or last semester, a couple who lived together and always were fighting verbally, they started using their miniscule skills on each other.. *rolls eyes*.. They both were almost expelled from the class~!

I had a rogue for an Instructor once years ago at another dojo that crossed the line numerous times.. he was Dealt with severely~!!

there's some situations where it's Ok.. other's.. Just not a good idea~!

~Tess


----------



## Rich Parsons

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> We have parties for the school at least 2x a year.. People bring their dates, families, other half.. Had a Great one Memorial Day..
> 
> and commenting on the topic.. as one of the school owners.. I have witnessed the mishaps of dating in the dojo.. as I've said in previous posts..
> We had a few instances during classes at Shepherd U.  couples not thinking anything about it, making out right before line-up,  *that was dealt with quickly*.. or last semester, a couple who lived together and always were fighting verbally, they started using their miniscule skills on each other.. *rolls eyes*.. They both were almost expelled from the class~!
> 
> I had a rogue for an Instructor once years ago at another dojo that crossed the line numerous times.. he was Dealt with severely~!!
> 
> there's some situations where it's Ok.. other's.. Just not a good idea~!
> 
> ~Tess



I agree with this. We had a couple that was dating, and we were covering some basic ground fighting, and I told her to get into the mount position. She looked at me, and the rest of the class smurked or tried to remain quiet. We then moved onto some other topic. She felt uncomfortable with this terminology, since she was involved with him. Note: I had told all the rest of guys to mount their opponent as well. So, yes it  can be an issue.


----------



## satans.barber

There's a couple at our dojo who are always slobbering over eachother, before, during, and after class, and infront of the juniors which really annoys me! But, our senior class is down to 6 students now, so I daren't really say anything to them to annoy them as if they go I'll be down to 4!

Ian.


----------



## Feisty Mouse

Wow.  I guess I'm really fortunate - I've never seen anything like this in a training studio.  Yikes.


----------



## Flatlander

satans.barber said:
			
		

> There's a couple at our dojo who are always slobbering over eachother, before, during, and after class, and infront of the juniors which really annoys me! But, our senior class is down to 6 students now, so I daren't really say anything to them to annoy them as if they go I'll be down to 4!
> 
> Ian.


I think you should still say something.  Better to stand up for your principles than lay down and let your students run over you.  I think keeping quiet about this if it makes you uncomfortable is wrong.  Please, no offense intended, Barber.

Dan


----------



## Ceicei

satans.barber said:
			
		

> There's a couple at our dojo who are always slobbering over eachother, before, during, and after class, and infront of the juniors which really annoys me! But, our senior class is down to 6 students now, so I daren't really say anything to them to annoy them as if they go I'll be down to 4!
> 
> Ian.





			
				flatlander said:
			
		

> I think you should still say something. Better to stand up for your principles than lay down and let your students run over you. I think keeping quiet about this if it makes you uncomfortable is wrong. Please, no offense intended, Barber.
> 
> Dan


I agree with Flatlander. PDA in a dojo is poor behavior, and to allow it to happen gives the impression of little/no discipline expected by the instructors. If they insist on slobbering over each other, it will need to be on their own time, elsewhere, not at the dojo.

If they cannot control themselves, then they need to start learning now.

- Ceicei


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## TKD USA

Ooo. Dojo love. Sounds like a bad movie


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## Chrono

satans.barber said:
			
		

> There's a couple at our dojo who are always slobbering over eachother, before, during, and after class, and infront of the juniors which really annoys me! But, our senior class is down to 6 students now, so I daren't really say anything to them to annoy them as if they go I'll be down to 4!
> 
> Ian.


 Dang, Ian, we don't have that in our school. I mean, they flirt with each other, of course, but no more than that. The only kind of PDA we do is give hugs. Nothing wrong with that.


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## satans.barber

I spoke to one of my seniors about this last night, and he said that it annoys him and he's also seen the parents looking non-too-happy about it, so I think I'll say something about next week!

Ian.


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## jeffkyle

TKD USA said:
			
		

> Ooo. Dojo love. Sounds like a bad movie



.......from the 70's!


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## Flatlander

Bow Chicka Chick Chicka Wow Wow


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## Ceicei

satans.barber said:
			
		

> I spoke to one of my seniors about this last night, and he said that it annoys him and he's also seen the parents looking non-too-happy about it, so I think I'll say something about next week!
> 
> Ian.


We, the curious, would like an update of your situation.  Has the lovey-dovey issue been resolved?  Are these two students still training there?  

- Ceicei


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## Sarah

I was talking to a classmate about something similar the other day. We are yellow belt, green tips and there is no one in our class that started with a partner, i.e. we all come alone on our first day, most of us have become strong friends and enjoy training together.

The grade ahead of us 'the green belts' are not quite as social, a majority of them train with there other half. They are friendly people; they just are not quite as approachable.

This could be because when you go alone you partner up with different people, therefore getting to know more people. If you were there with your other half, you would tend to partner with them all the time.


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## satans.barber

Ceicei said:
			
		

> We, the curious, would like an update of your situation.  Has the lovey-dovey issue been resolved?  Are these two students still training there?
> 
> - Ceicei



Well, I raised it at the meeting (pub trip!) last week and said I thought it was a problem but I didn't know how to approach it, and one of the other instructors said that he'd say something to them...so it's out of my hands now!

Ian.


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## Chrono

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> Well, I would weigh in with a "why not?" again, assuming that you would be OK to train there if things didn't work out.


 It's a good thing you think so, because things have been getting hot and I'm not exactly talking about the weather. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. Things aren't as "hot" as it was made to sound. That's the only phrase I could think that fit. Sorry for any confusion.


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## gyaku-zuki queen

wow the subject kinda changed from the beggining.. haha.. well im my opinion from the frist post in this thread, it doesnt really matter.. think of it like if your at school or something. people dated who they met in school, and in the dojo your learning too. so it will either go good, and it'll work, or if it doesnt work, it will be the same thing pretty much that happens in school for some people. you cant concentrate at school, you cant concentrate at the dojo. .. kno wut i'm sayin?


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## shaolinchi

i agree with gyaku, i've been trying to get my fiancee to come in for classes forever now...and just as she decides to, my instructor didn't think it was a good idea!  grrr, not his decision to make, but still.  And he met his wife in the dojo, so I don't get it!  But still, I really want her to come in


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## Ronald R. Harbers

If I was a single man, I'd go out with any woman who asked me! We could always spar!!!


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## Adept

My cousin recently got married to a girl he met through training. It's not so bad. I wouldnt even equate it to dating someone at school. More like dating someone at work. Dating an instructor is more like dating your boss, or your personal trainer, or your tennis coach than anything else. So long as all the age bases are covered, then go for it.

 But like anything, think it through. If it all goes to the crapper, will you be able to train at the same place, or will one of you need to leave? If so, who?


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## Blooming Lotus

The one who's uncomfortable enough with it to leave.



one hundred and however many posts is a long thread to read through, so I haven't read it all, but I don't see what the issue is. You obviously have things in common and likely ( okay, well possibly ) lead a similar lifestyle. Could be the start of something very beautiful for both, but I would recommend that to actually get into a relationship it should be based on at least a _few_ other common denominators and interests outside of ma. Or just take the sex for what it is and come what may, enjoy your training for what _it_ is , never the twine to cross 

BTW : No problem with dating shifu either ( providing he wasn't a monk , a she or married )and he didn't have an urge to go easy on me during class (... which'd btw be both a breakupable offence from lack of respect and worthy of finding a new teacher ). But if _I_ were shifu and noticed a relationship happening, I would be okay with it providing it wasn't effecting my class. In a sour breakup I'd proabably give them a very slight cool off period and if it got to be too much of a distraction for other students, I'd ask one or both to leave...okay, maybe I'd pull them aside and have a chat with them first, because as a long time instructor and teacher of various things, I guess anywhere but McDojo, and to be fair, I feel there is a slight duty of care, but if I wanted to be a counsellor, that's what I'd be doing.

Blooming Lotus


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## AnimEdge

What about if you get your 'other' to start going?
I was going out with my GF 2 years before we started going (i dragged her) and she seams to be injoining it and is getting quite good, but i can understand some tension that accures when one of us must spar or do some close tech. with people of the oppisite  but we are both loving it and love each other so party on i think  anyways gives us a ecuse to roll around in class


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## Blooming Lotus

As long as you can seperate the relationship from the lesson while you're in class I can't see a problem myself..  but then I'm a bit of of school , so really, what would I know ???  



Blooming Lotus


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## Kreth

Ceicei said:
			
		

> PDA in a dojo is poor behavior


Sorry to revive an old post, but I've just realized that I'm an uber-geek. I read this post as I was browsing the thread, and couldn't understand why someone would object to a Palm Pilot in the dojo...  

Jeff


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## FUZZYJ692000

AnimEdge said:
			
		

> What about if you get your 'other' to start going?
> I was going out with my GF 2 years before we started going (i dragged her) and she seams to be injoining it and is getting quite good, but i can understand some tension that accures when one of us must spar or do some close tech. with people of the oppisite  but we are both loving it and love each other so party on i think  anyways gives us a ecuse to roll around in class




We've had students that have brought their significant others to class and some have even joined.  normally they would treat eachother like any other in class.  we did have one couple where the girl for some reason when sparring would throw a fit if he actually hit her.  this just blew my mind because you're in martial arts and don't want to get hit.... :idunno:   i would say though that when we grappled and close techniques they felt more comfortable with their significant other because there was a "trust" there that they hadn't developed with us yet.  however, like i've said before we've had couples in the studio that have broken up and a couple of people have left because it ended kind of nastily...but so be it....stuff happens...life goes on


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## Blooming Lotus

Good point you make on the trust issue! I've trained on off with my little brother for yrs and yrs ( when we're in the same neighbourhood )and though we have focus on mostly different arts and aspects etc, that's a big part of the reason I like to train with him . In ppl who are sincerely interested in upping their game, particularly for ppl who are shy to get into it with strangers, this can work really well .



Blooming Lotus


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## TigerWoman

This thread is about dating in the dojo. TW


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## chinto01

I dated a woman at the dojo I was working out at who was my senior. Well when things went south she really turned into a ********  well you fill in the blanks. Therefore I would say never dip your pen into the company ink!!!


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## songe-d-automne

I don't really see anything wrong with dating in the dojo with either student/student or instructor/student as long as people keep their personal issues out of the class. I go to class with my soon-to-be-ex husband and although we are not together we just act like we always did before in class. I am sure that nobody there notices anything different.

I have to admit I had one emotional meltdown there though- (this was like 2 days after I left him so it was pretty fresh) it hit me when we were doing Sikaran drill and I said "I am sorry I can't do it" and excused myself and hid in the bathroom until I was over it.

Some people though just have a harder time keeping their emotions out of things and will showboat for attention "He dumped meeeeee, wah" to anyone who will listen and those are the types who should not date in the dojo. Just my lousy 2 cents.


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## cali_tkdbruin

chinto01 said:
			
		

> I dated a woman at the dojo I was working out at who was my senior. Well when things went south she really turned into a ******** well you fill in the blanks. Therefore I would say never dip your pen into the company ink!!!



Yup, I like that unspoken rule, only I know it as _"Don't ever fish off the company pier." _ When things go bad with your EX, life can become very, very uncomfortable when you have to be in the same space with them. I feel for  *songe-d-automne *after reading her post. This makes me feel certain now that I wouldn't want to go out with someone from my dojang. 

And, if I were married to someone I trained with at my dojang and we split up, I'd find somewhere else to train. But, that's easier said than done for some like me. I live in the suburbs of a large city so finding a new place to train is a snap.


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## Kacey

cali_tkdbruin said:
			
		

> And, if I were married to someone I trained with at my dojang and we split up, I'd find somewhere else to train. But, that's easier said than done for some like me. I live in the suburbs of a large city so finding a new place to train is a snap.



It all depends on your situation - when I got divorced (from the man who introduced me to TKD), the members of the class were my primary source of support... of course, my ex was an idiot (along with some other adjectives, all profanity), and I found out long after the divorce that the only reason his attitude and behavior in class hadn't gotten him kicked out was because my instructor didn't want to force me to choose between the class and my husband.  No one liked him that much (he was rather self-centered and convinced he was a much better martial artist than he was), and was unaware of people's opinion of him to the extent that the person my ex considered to be his best friend thought of my ex as a distant acquaintance.  The timing of the divorce (although not the cause of it) was due, in part, to our instructor telling me to test for 2nd Dan... and not him.  Considering that he was a blue belt (4th gup) and I was a white belt when we joined that class, and tested for 1st Dan at the same time, and he placed a great deal of importance on outranking me, that was quite a blow to his ego.  As far as I know, he dropped out shortly after joining a class in Vegas (where he moved after the divorce) - that was 1994, and I'm still in TKD, and with the same instructor, although nearly all of the other students who were there then have long since left.  It's all in what works for you.


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## cali_tkdbruin

Kacey said:
			
		

> It all depends on your situation - when I got divorced...



But the bottom line is that one of the two of you bailed fom training at the same dojang. Not you but him. 

Would you still train there if you had to deal with that person on a day to day basis? Why be uncomfortable is all I'm saying. Theoritically, if my ex is staying at our dojang, then I'm out, that all. I wouldn't make her life uncomfortable, and I wouldn't want the same for me.


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## Slippery_Pete

I mostly train at a college.  Because of this, the atmosphere is a little more relaxed.  I met my current boyfriend in taekwondo september of '04 and we started dating in january of '06.  I was a little hesitant because we have class together and what if we did break up...would i not want to go to class...or will i have a hard time listening to him when he gives me advice or push-ups.  We've only been dating for a couple months now but it has been great...i wouldn't change a thing.  He is an assistant instuctor so that is a little weird but he is only 6 months older than me.  A LOT of people in our school started dating through class and some are still together today.  Also, there have been a lot of happy marriages.


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## bignick

Slippery_Pete said:
			
		

> I mostly train at a college.  Because of this, the atmosphere is a little more relaxed.  I met my current boyfriend in taekwondo september of '04 and we started dating in january of '06.  I was a little hesitant because we have class together and what if we did break up...would i not want to go to class...or will i have a hard time listening to him when he gives me advice or push-ups.  We've only been dating for a couple months now but it has been great...i wouldn't change a thing.  He is an assistant instuctor so that is a little weird but he is only 6 months older than me.  A LOT of people in our school started dating through class and some are still together today.  Also, there have been a lot of happy marriages.



A little early to be talking about marriage, isn't it?


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## Slippery_Pete

ha ha...you are not cute...


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## RheaHS

Myself and my partner met on the mats, we were paired at a charity throwing marathon. 
We keep it quiet, although everyone knows about it, and the only time it is mentioned in classes is when the kids tease us (We help our instructor with their lessons)
Before lessons start we might be a bit more touchy-feely, but that stops. Once the lesson begins, he is my senior and I treat him as such. I have the same respect for him as before we started going out. 
It's also fun sparring him, I have the trust there.


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## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618;

we dont get anything like that at our dojo , so i dont know what its like to have a couple training at the same dojo , but ive got nothing against it


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## Drac

Not a dojo story but relivent:It's what occures if the relationship goes sour that's the problem..Had one of my bouncers start dating a female working in the glass washing room..Everything was fine UNTIL their first fight..The whole club felt the effects..


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## wee_blondie

We have a few couples who train together.  Its never caused any real problems as they are very good at keeping the lovey-dovey stuff and the tiffs out of the gym.  There is one guy that went through a phase of hitting on every girl that walked in the door but he was given some "advice" from the head instructor and he's backed off now.

I don't think it causes a problem as long as people are sensible about it.  At the end of the day, the only reason you're in the gym is to train.  What happens outside stays outside.


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## hong kong fooey

well I have been dating another student in my karate class for about 5 years now so I don't think it's a bad idea but you might want to watch out if things don't work out because things go go bad. thats just my opinion


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## TheOriginalName

I'm currently single and would actually prefer to date someone from my dojo (not that it's going to happen). 

Between student and student - well it's just the normal dangers of what happens if it goes bad, but it's no different to other joint commitments. 

Between student and instructor - i think that the head instrutor should be made aware of the situation and all efforts then made to protect the dojo from potential lawsuits if it were to go bad.


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## Twin Fist

well, i dont know if it has been brought up, but martial arts isnt like any other hobby.

It can become a LIFESTYLE.

something that important, your partner needs to either be into, or be very understanding of.


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## JadeDragon3

I think that it is ok to date someone who is in your martial art class. I don't see a problem with it. It might actually be a good thing in that you have a workout partner at home. If you are having a problem remembering a form then you can ask your boyfriend or girlfriend to help you out with it. If you have things in common and you hit it off then why not date.


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## Big Don

We need a dozen or so ADULT women at my school. We have little girls and teenage girls galore, but, only one woman and she is not in class very often at all, so, no dating there. Some of the teenagers have dated each other, with the expected resulting drama...


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## Big Don

Twin Fist said:


> It can become an ADDICTION.



Fixed it for you...


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## SiMui

I recently had my older training brother express an interest in me, but it was not what I was looking for in taking martial arts, and I wasn't interested in him so I had to turn him down; but I was worried how he would feel after the rejection. Being the only girl in the class (not so much these days), I worried that it might be possible to become someone's interest because I know that MA fanatics need to be able to share their love of MA. I hope this doesn't happen again! 

The worst part was his attempt to convince me that what happens outside the school does not interfere with what happens inside the school, but I know that _I_ don't have that kind of control over my feelings to totally forget for the hour that we ever spend together. I didn't know if that was supposed to make me feel safer, or if it was a good reason for us to get together! 

There are very few women involved in my martial art, and from what I hear, there have been no good endings to come from instructors and students. I am unaware of inter-student relationships that have worked or failed. I'm also unsure of how I feel about. It's all up to the amount of maturity two individuals have. 


simui


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## OnlyAnEgg

I'd really treat it like dating in the workplace.

I'd be uncomfortable if the relationship went south in a bad way.


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## OnlyAnEgg

SiMui said:


> simui


 
Welcome to MArtial Talk!


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## SageGhost83

I generally discourage it, but if the couple has the maturity and respect to pull it off without it affecting their training and the training hall environment, then I think that it is okay.


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## Tez3

OnlyAnEgg said:


> *I'd really treat it like dating in the workplace.*
> 
> I'd be uncomfortable if the relationship went south in a bad way.


 
My daughter met her partner working alongside him, there are several couples where they work in fact the business is run by a couple. they all get on well, though tensions get high during Derby week lol!

http://www.markjohnstonracing.com/
Had to post this lol, it's where my daughter and her partner work and also live, second photo down in the gallery, way back in the distance is the yard where they have their house. If they all fall out it's a long way back to town! Some of them also train with us. It's a very close community where they live, work, play and partner off among themselves but they manage fine by being adult and sensible.


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## Big Don

We recently had one of these things go all sideways. It is NOT good.


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## Tez3

Big Don said:


> We recently had one of these things go all sideways. It is NOT good.


It's human nature, one doesn't beome an automaton when one becomes a martial artist. It just requires everyone to be adult.


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## just2kicku

I actually met my wife at the dojo. She wasn't a student, her older sister was. After dating she actually started classes and enjoys it very much. I do not teach her tho, I have a tendency of being a lot harder on her than everyone else.


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## shihansmurf

I've witnessed it go badly a few time so I'm a bit uncomfortable with it but I also teach my wife so I'm kind of two minds on the subject(although to be fair she started training after we began dating, I didn't pick up on one of my students).

I look at teaching the same way I do any professional relationship. I have certain boundaries that I think are inappropriate to cross. A student comes to me to learn karate. They don't come to me to be taught religeon, or politics, or for sexual favors. If they are interested in any of those they are barking up the wrong tree and I send them down the road to where they can find whatever it is they wanderd through my door in search of. Now I tend to become friends with my students that is the extent of it.

When I was a much younger man I found myself entangled in a romantic situation that involved a couple of other members of a school where I was training. Things ended badly and after all was said and done we all ended up at different schools as a result(directly or not). I learned a valuable lesson about not pooping where one eats from that.

I think that for an instructor to be romanticaly involved can effect their objectivity and grant the impression of favoritism, which is why I don't grade my wife. One of my peers does that for me, I would have the tendency to grade her too harshly to avoid the appearance of favoritism and this would be unfair to her. Conversley,  I don't want any accomplishment that she achieves in the art to be impacted by the fact that I awarded it to her.

As far as students dating, as long as they can leave personal issues outside to the degree possible then I am okay with it. I think it is a bad idea, but people are people and you can't help who you got the happies for.

Mark


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## Tez3

Martial arts is only a profession for a very few ( lucky ones I'll add) for everyone else it's a sport or hobby so I don't understand why there should be an embargo on dating among students when there will be no such thing in any other sport or hobby. It's as if we are saying, people, you can't be treated as adults either that or martial arts is somewhat up itself! sometimes people can sound very pompous about martial arts when discussing subjects like this.
 People are always going to be attracted to others with similiar interests or passions so why would there be any surprise that students in martial arts find themselves attracted to each other. 
Instructors picking up students is another subject totally.


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## shihansmurf

Tez3 said:


> sometimes people can sound very pompous about martial arts when discussing subjects like this.
> People are always going to be attracted to others with similiar interests or passions so why would there be any surprise that students in martial arts find themselves attracted to each other.
> Instructors picking up students is another subject totally.


 
Pompous? I actually think I sound more pretentious....



I agree with you. I've just have had a couple of negative experience in refrence to this sort of thing. I've sent a couple off the mat due to verbal sniping during drills. I've had a couple refuse to work with each other during class because they were involved in an argument. I've also had to seperate a couple of fellows that decided to raise the level of contact and intensity durring kumite one night over a girl that they were both seeing who also trained at my school. That ended badly.

As far as the "professional" side of things go. I maintain a certain amount of detatchment when I teach.  Its sort of similar to how I conduct myself at work for me. See, when I go to work I stop being Mark and shift into being Staff Sergeant Chapman. Now, I am still personable(as much as any NCO is) and all but I am still SSG Chapman.  On a similar note when I teach karate from the moment I bow the class in I stop being Mark and start being Mr. Chapman. I am still friendly and personable. I crack jokes and am pretty informal compared to most shotokan teachers but I am still professional. I don't loose sight of the fact that I am the teacher.  I think that this is important and it allows me to maintain a positive learning enviornment for my students.

As to students seeing each other. What happens outside of my class isn't my buisness. If it bleeds over into my class it become so only in as much as it effects thier behavior in class. Beyond that, I stay out of it. I think its a bad idea to become romanticaly involved with training partners as, should things go badly, it becomes awkward but thats just me. As I stated I had a bad experience with that as a young man and learned a hard lesson from it. Were I single, I wouldn't entertain the notion. To be fai though I am pretty compartmentalized and am able to think of places like the dojo as "no nookie zones". Maybe I'm wired funny but I like to keep it simple.

Just my view
Mark


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## Flea

What a great thread!

For myself, I'm the only woman in my school so there _is_ no pool to fish in.  :uhyeah:   But were that not the case, I wouldn't date in class anyway.  I go there to learn, and I don't want to distract myself from that.


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## Tez3

I can't imagine anyone who comes to train in martial arts with the intention of looking for a romantic partner is actually going to last long lol! 
I think everyone who stays in martial arts is there for the training but human nature being what it is there may be attractions and love growing, I think thats nice actually.

We don't have the romantic entanglements causing arguments tiffs etc we tend to get the macho guys who come in to 'prove themselves', they lose but while it can be amusing it's also annoying.


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## seasoned

I see nothing wrong with it as long as it does not interfere with training and it is done with maturity.


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## Blade96

used to have a meh attitude towards it. Then it happened to me.

Now I say "Never Again!"


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## Dirty Dog

Not at the dojo but...

My wife and I met at work. Knew each other for years, and about a year after my divorce (and about 18 months after hers) we started dating. Twelve years later, we still manage to live together, commute together, work together (often, literally side by side) and train together (she and my oldest daughter are 3rd geups), dive together (and she's never even tried to turn off my air...).

It can be nasty if it doesn't work out. But it can be heavenly if it does.


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## Blade96

Rich Parsons said:


> ONly between students and then they have to think about it.
> 
> Between a student and instructor has the sexual discrimination lawsuit issue, and harassment lawsuit issue.
> 
> Also if things do not work out then the student feels like the must leave. OR if it was the student who broke it off then the instructor might start having problems. Just because they are martial artists does nto mean they do not get hurt from romance
> 
> I have seen partnerships break up over a girl, and I have seen students leave clubs over this. This and dating at work are real tough issues to address.
> 
> :asian:



I almost had to leave my dojo over mine. Because my ex the very next class after i dumped him, he got with his now gf immediately, brought her to my dojo and put her in my face and said he did it to get back at me. He brought her to the dojo a mumber of times but i had enough, I went to my sensei and told him and he said well my ex was gonna leave soon cause he was opening his own dojo, so smile, ok? My senseis didnt want me to leave really. They liked me. So I said Ok. I am glad sensei turned out to be right and I never had to leave


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