# Women's Self Defence



## Skitzo (Mar 27, 2005)

I've been asked to set up a women's self defense programme.  Now, I'm not trying to get political here ..._ie. "Why would a woman's program be different from a man's?!??!" _ but at my gym, we are finding women are more comfortable working with other women especially in a grappling situation.

 Anyhow, I was thinking of running about 10 classes.  The first one would be on "how to throw a punch"  the second one would be "escapes" the third could be "strikes" .... you get the picture.  Has anyone else set up a similar programme?  What do you all think of this idea?  Is it a good one?  - I mean, I don't have one of those expensive foam costumes for the student to beat up on an instructor......

 Does someone have an existing programme out there I could look at?.... Should I give a street proofing certificate at the end of it? Looking for advice on this (even if I should do it)

 Thanks!


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## Adept (Mar 27, 2005)

A few things I would include, or at least bear in mind.

 1 - Situational awareness. The number one, golden rule is to be aware of the situation around you at all times. Be careful to avoid dangerous situations, and hopefully you'll never need to defend yourself.

 2 - Women need to spar men. A key ingredient in any RBSD course is training against resisting live opponents. Most of the techniques being taught are taught with the aim of helping a woman defend herself from a man, so using these techniques against a man is important. Be careful with this though, since some women are very sensitive about having a man even look like they are going to hit them, even in a controlled safe environment like the Dojo. I've hears stories about women collapsing in tears when their instructor faced up against them in an aggressive pose.

 3 - Remember that these people probably wont be going home and practicing what they've learned. So if you only teach them punches on the first week, by the eighth week it might be seven or eight weeks since any of them have thrown a punch, and they've probably forgotten how. Instead do a quick warm up, run through the basics each week, and then maybe specialise on something for half an hour, before running through the basics again.

 4 - Legality. Talk to a lawyer and find out about the laws as they pertain to self defense in your area, with regard to things like pepper spray, handguns, mace, etc. Find out what is legal, and what isn't.

 5 - Prepare a handout booklet for the first week, so that people can take it home. The booklet should include some basic stuff about situational awareness (what to look out for and typical places to avoid) and some other common sense information (de-escalation techniques, etc.)

 Finally, I recommend you take a look at Marc MacYoung's website for further tips and hints. You can always shoot him or Dianna an email and ask for their esteemed opinions as well, since they know much more and are much more experienced about this stuff than little 'ole me.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 27, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> Anyhow, I was thinking of running about 10 classes.  The first one would be on "how to throw a punch"  the second one would be "escapes" the third could be "strikes" .... you get the picture.  Has anyone else set up a similar programme?  What do you all think of this idea?  Is it a good one?  - I mean, I don't have one of those expensive foam costumes for the student to beat up on an instructor......


Me thinks you have the order a bit out here... Think about the time-line of an attack. There's the approach (awareness), the attempt to corner or trap (escapes), the initial contact/grab (again escapes) then the attack itself (throwing punches and strikes) and so forth.  As Adept mentioned situational awareness is definitely #1. Avoiding getting into the position of being attack in the first place is the key element with SD. I'll add that your "students" need to learn how to control that fear/adreialain rush so that they don't panic and forget everything they learned. They may walk out of your class at the end of it all with high confidence ... but say 6-8 weeks later are they still confidient? Offer up a refresher course about 3 months after the last class. It will help minimize any lingering doubts about their abilities. 



			
				Skitzo said:
			
		

> Does someone have an existing programme out there I could look at?.... Should I give a street proofing certificate at the end of it? Looking for advice on this (even if I should do it)
> Thanks!


Street-proofing certificate? Uhh, IMO.... no. I mean what's the intention of the certification? What is a certification, a piece of paper saying you took this class/course. Is it a means to boost their confidence when they get home? Is that going to help on the street?  Again, Adept's suggestion of a booklet for them to take home and review is a good idea, that'll help keep the material fresh. You might want to do it for each day/evening of class. That way at least they can review each lesson. 

Check with a local MA school and see if they have any spare pads (feet, fist, chest, GROIN) that they can loan out. All males in the class should definitely be wearing cups  (duh). You might have to have some (experienced) women to initally be the "attacker" until the ladies get comfortable with the idea of practicing on a stranger (male).  :idunno: It's a woman thing and I'm sure some of the ladies here on MT could give a better explaination than I could. But I'm gonna hazard that at one time or another some of your "students" will have been a victim of a previous attack... so you have to be careful about triggering old events. 

However you plan to do it, I wish you luck. You're providing a valuable service to your community ... no, seriously, I mean that.  :asian:


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## arnisador (Mar 27, 2005)

There have been previous threads on this; you might look in the Womens Self-Defense forum. E.g.:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12588
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2409
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1981


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 27, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> I've been asked to set up a women's self defense programme. Now, I'm not trying to get political here ..._ie. "Why would a woman's program be different from a man's?!??!" _but at my gym, we are finding women are more comfortable working with other women especially in a grappling situation.
> 
> Anyhow, I was thinking of running about 10 classes. The first one would be on "how to throw a punch" the second one would be "escapes" the third could be "strikes" .... you get the picture. Has anyone else set up a similar programme? What do you all think of this idea? Is it a good one? - I mean, I don't have one of those expensive foam costumes for the student to beat up on an instructor......
> 
> ...


I've been running a similar program for female police officers.  I would start women out with other women, but i'd eventually incorperate men in your classes.


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## Skitzo (Mar 28, 2005)

Thanks for the advice!!  Legally, here in Ontario, you can basically use your hands - weapons and Canada?!?! What's a gun? Ha!

The handout and review literature is a great idea?  Have others done this?  I'd like to take a look at what others have done.  I'll go read those other threads now.  

We have all kinds of pads at the gym - but what I was referring to was the suit that you can purchase - where you can simply punch and kick all you want without hurting the man.  BTW: I've been kicked in the cup sparring - it's not that great in the protection department.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 28, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice!!  Legally, here in Ontario, you can basically use your hands - weapons and Canada?!?! What's a gun? Ha!
> 
> The handout and review literature is a great idea?  Have others done this?  I'd like to take a look at what others have done.  I'll go read those other threads now.
> 
> We have all kinds of pads at the gym - but what I was referring to was the suit that you can purchase - where you can simply punch and kick all you want without hurting the man.  BTW: I've been kicked in the cup sparring - it's not that great in the protection department.


Heh, get kicked *without* one and *then* say how the cup isn't that great in the protection dept.  :lol:


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## Fightback2 (Mar 28, 2005)

Congratulations on setting up a women's self-defense class.  We need more of them.  Here are some suggestions that have worked for our program. (www.safeandstrongmo.com)

Have both male and female instructors.  Most attacks, statistically speaking, on women are by men.  In order to fight a man on the street they will need to feel what it's like to fight a man in class.  Men fight differently from women at least those who aren't trained in MA.  If you have the equipment, padded assailant training is the best thing you can give your students.  Hitting a pad and hitting a person are two entirely different things.  The student has to get the feel of hitting a live body, something that can be very difficult for some.  (BTW, be prepared to hear lots of "I'm sorry's" until they get used to hitting.)

Teach the 3 A's - awareness, attitude (body language, don't look like an easy target, etc.), and accountability (being responsible for their own safety).

Focus on mental, physical and emotional aspects.  Women must understand that they're worth fighting for.  Most women would fight to the death to defend a loved one but will not have the same fighting spirit in defending themselves.  Some of us have had trauma in the past and a self-defense class can bring flashbacks.  These can be major traumatic events even for those of us who are decades away from when the actual event occurred.  Be prepared, perhaps talk to a rape crisis counselor on how to handle such situations.

Understand that your students will probably not be MA trained.  Make sure you speak their language.  Don't say "execute a front snap kick" when talking about a kick to the groin.  They may not understand what you mean but if you say kick a field goal they'll get it right off the bat.
Don't teach your students to throw punches.  Use open-handed techniques as much as possible.  The exception would be a hammer fist where they're hitting with the meaty part of their hands and not the knuckles.  As you probably already know, it takes a lot of time to learn how to throw a proper punch without injuring yourself.  Palm heels can be just as effective.

Whew!  Long winded but there it is.

Good luck!


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## MJS (Mar 28, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> I've been asked to set up a women's self defense programme.  Now, I'm not trying to get political here ..._ie. "Why would a woman's program be different from a man's?!??!" _ but at my gym, we are finding women are more comfortable working with other women especially in a grappling situation.
> 
> Anyhow, I was thinking of running about 10 classes.  The first one would be on "how to throw a punch"  the second one would be "escapes" the third could be "strikes" .... you get the picture.  Has anyone else set up a similar programme?  What do you all think of this idea?  Is it a good one?  - I mean, I don't have one of those expensive foam costumes for the student to beat up on an instructor......
> 
> ...



One thing to keep in mind is that you want to teach things that are going to be simple, quick, and effective.  Keep in mind that this is a short class, so that is one of the reasons you want to avoid getting too complicated with the material you're teaching.

I would also suggest incorporating some male instructors into the class.  While I realize that a female may feel uncomfortable on the ground in a grappling situation with a male, in reality, it'll most likely be a male that attacks her, not a female.  

If you have a red man suit available to you, you might consider using that also.  Also make sure you're adding in some aliveness and realism to the class.  You want to attempt to creat a senario that is as life-like as possible, but still keeping that element of safety.  

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Mike


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## Skitzo (Mar 29, 2005)

Ahhh...that's what they're called - a red man suit.  I'd like to find one of those.  I think I'm going to dedicate a full class to just throwing punches.  I've noticed a real difference in a lot of women's punches as compared to men's.  I think it all stems from childhood sports.  The same movement in throwing a baseball or football is virtually identical to a punch - if someone was not introduced to these "throwing" sports then the motion just isn't there.  


I'm trying to find another male to beat up on right now.... At my gym, all the instructors are volunteers.  So it's hard to ask people in during off times.  The main art is Karate but my black belts are in Hapkido, and Kyuk Toogi, there is a judo guy, 2 TKD guys, 3 different Karate styles and a Kung Fu practitioneer.  We are teaching the Karate patterns and stances etc. but it makes for a really interesting self defence night. Ha!

Doug


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## TigerWoman (Mar 29, 2005)

Karate Depot (above on the blue bar) has it on this page here for a mere $1200.  If you aren't planning on using it for regular classes or doing a lot of self defense classes, it is a spendy suit.  

It would also be good to have a regular kickboxing/self defense combination class, where they learn and build up strength, technique, focus, etc. for a front kick to the groin, a round kick to the side of the quad for a charley horse or a sidekick to the knee.  Most women starting self defense need to start out slowly and get the basics. TW


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## MA-Caver (Mar 29, 2005)

Here ya go.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 29, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> Ahhh...that's what they're called - a red man suit. I'd like to find one of those. I think I'm going to dedicate a full class to just throwing punches. I've noticed a real difference in a lot of women's punches as compared to men's. I think it all stems from childhood sports. The same movement in throwing a baseball or football is virtually identical to a punch - if someone was not introduced to these "throwing" sports then the motion just isn't there.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find another male to beat up on right now.... At my gym, all the instructors are volunteers. So it's hard to ask people in during off times. The main art is Karate but my black belts are in Hapkido, and Kyuk Toogi, there is a judo guy, 2 TKD guys, 3 different Karate styles and a Kung Fu practitioneer. We are teaching the Karate patterns and stances etc. but it makes for a really interesting self defence night. Ha!
> ...


The FIST suit IMO is far superior than the Redman suit, and is a little over $800.00. I've trained with both. A FIST suit will allow you to take full power shots with a collapsible baton, something you WILL NOT do with a Redman suit. http://www.fist-inc.com/tg/333/333.htm


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 29, 2005)

Skitzo said:
			
		

> Ahhh...that's what they're called - a red man suit. I'd like to find one of those. I think I'm going to dedicate a full class to just throwing punches. I've noticed a real difference in a lot of women's punches as compared to men's. I think it all stems from childhood sports. The same movement in throwing a baseball or football is virtually identical to a punch - if someone was not introduced to these "throwing" sports then the motion just isn't there.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find another male to beat up on right now.... At my gym, all the instructors are volunteers. So it's hard to ask people in during off times. The main art is Karate but my black belts are in Hapkido, and Kyuk Toogi, there is a judo guy, 2 TKD guys, 3 different Karate styles and a Kung Fu practitioneer. We are teaching the Karate patterns and stances etc. but it makes for a really interesting self defence night. Ha!
> ...


A lot of the difference in punching power is the general difference in upper body strength.  Women are designed differently than men, with men having much more upper body strength.  Women can make up for the difference with lower body strength.  I do have a female fighter who punches with more power than most twice guys her size, however, so upper body weakness is not a universal among women.  Of course you may something on the baseball theory, as this woman played a lot of sports, including softball, all her life.  Man can she hit.

Using the impact suits are fine, as long as you don't get in to sole habit of training the women to fight a big clumsy bear.  They also need to do moderate contact sparing with a live opponent and get hit.  Some women aren't prepared to get hit, which is all the more reason to practice it.  I believe training without hard impact is futile.  You can train techniques and conditioned responses, but if you haven't conditioned people to feel the feel of someone trying to take their headoff, all that training is going to go out the window in a real fight as soon as they get hit hard.


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## still learning (Mar 30, 2005)

Hello, These are something you may want to look into for more info's. Most of these schools teach real prepareness for women and men.

    1. Model Mugging/ IMPACT
    2. Awakening the Warrior Within
    3. Rocky Mountain Combat Applications Training.

   You may want to talk to police officers who handles rape/mugging cases for input.
   On the internet there is tons of information on this topic.

   Learn about "woofing" and the adrenaline stress.  You may want your training to be as real as possible.

 Right now I am into Marc "animal" Macyoung books and theories. You may want to read a few of his books or see his videos. This is as real as it can get, from a guy who has been there and back. (street fighting)

 If you are going to teach classes for women, they will want to learn simple skills to use and learn to fight back. (KISS) Teach in threes. ...Aloha


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## MA-Caver (Mar 30, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> A lot of the difference in punching power is the general difference in upper body strength.  Women are designed differently than men, with men having much more upper body strength.  Women can make up for the difference with lower body strength.  I do have a female fighter who punches with more power than most twice guys her size, however, so upper body weakness is not a universal among women.  Of course you may something on the baseball theory, as this woman played a lot of sports, including softball, all her life.  Man can she hit.
> 
> Using the impact suits are fine, as long as you don't get in to sole habit of training the women to fight a big clumsy bear.  They also need to do moderate contact sparing with a live opponent and get hit.  Some women aren't prepared to get hit, which is all the more reason to practice it.  I believe training without hard impact is futile.  You can train techniques and conditioned responses, but if you haven't conditioned people to feel the feel of someone trying to take their headoff, all that training is going to go out the window in a real fight as soon as they get hit hard.


Yep, in another thread there's the mention of "mental toughness". I've seen the big strong guy that people look at 'im and they wouldn't want to think about mixing it up... then someone does and the big guy folds like a house of cards and is whimping and whining "please don't hit me!"... Huh? Wha?
Anyway it's one of the reasons why I felt that a short SD class for women is semi-useless. It takes time to build up the confidence to fight back. Women who have been beaten to submission when they were younger and so have become docile at adult hood ... some are going to have to dig deep to find that warrior within. 
You got ten classes spread out over ten weeks. I sincerely wish you luck. It's a good thing and a good class. Hopefully you won't have too many drop-outs. 
 :asian:


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## Skitzo (Apr 9, 2005)

I agree that a 10 week programme is not enough - but realistically, getting a full class is tough enough.  People (especially women) are not too happy with the way gyms operate.  Usually they have sign up for at least a year, then they have real problems getting out of contracts, then they try to put memberships on hold and they are not allowed; or they are pressure sold goods at a gym or personal trainers..... so if someone was to set up a SHORT term progreamme with no-strings attached, then perhaps they'll come back after the prg is finished.


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