# Guns are for Wimps



## Thesemindz (Feb 12, 2009)

So I'm at work and we're talking about martial arts and self defense, and the subject drifts over to firearms. Several of my coworkers are licensed to carry concealed. While we're discussing it, one of the Tough Guys in the room makes this enlightened statement.

"Guns are for wimps."

At this point he's awfully proud of himself and how Tough he is. I just looked at him and said,

"No. Guns are for shooting things."

And then we continued our discussion without his input.

See, this guys a Tough Guy. You know the type. And in his mind, the fact that he trains MMA means that he can take anybody. It doesn't matter whether it's self defense or sport. It doesn't matter that most if not all of his MMA idols have LOSSES on their careers. Because he's a Tough Guy. So he doesn't need a gun. Only wimps need guns.

Pathetic. Self defense isn't about pride, or face, or impressing your friends. It's about going home one more time to kiss your wife and children. It's about not dying here, in the street, so this junkie can get a fix off the cash in your wallet. It's about knowing that this isn't the last time you'll ever see the sunrise.

It's about life and death. Wimps don't enter into it.


-Rob


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 12, 2009)

You got it.

It's people like this that aren't mentally out of high school yet that do not *U*nderstand *T*he *P*roblem.

People in real life, back on planet Earth, where I live, don't move on you to attack you unless they figure they've stacked the deck( accomplices/weapons/both) in some way *already.* They are not looking for some bull**** mythical "good, clean fight", they are looking for an assault/assassination.

All things being equal, you lose. If you're not stacking the deck for your survival insofar as the laws of your country allow you to, , you start off behind the curve no matter what.


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## SFC JeffJ (Feb 12, 2009)

I am one big damn wimp then!


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## Carol (Feb 12, 2009)

I got no problem with being a wimp. :wavey:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 12, 2009)

I guess I am a wimp as well but hopefully I will have that wimpy edge if I ever need it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 12, 2009)

When carried as a weapon for self-defense, guns are a personal acknowledgment of the lengths to which the person carrying the weapon is willing to go to protect their own life.  Most people do not know, if you ask them, if they would be 'willing to kill another human being'.  It's not something many people think about.  A person who chooses to go about armed has already made that decision, consciously or not.

In my opinion, a person carrying a gun for self-defense should have already examined the moral, legal, ethical, and if necessary, religious implications of what they have chosen to do by carrying a gun.  Choosing to carry a gun is a tacit admission that the person who carries will, in certain circumstances, end the life of another human being rather than have their own life ended. By carrying a gun, a person has increased the chances that any confrontation will end in death of one or both participants.

A person who carries a gun for self-defense without understanding the legal obligations of doing so is no wimp, that person is  fool.  A person who carries a gun without knowing when or how to use it is no wimp, that person is a dangerous maniac.  A person who carries a gun thinking that it is a magic wand that they can wave around and it will dispel danger without anyone dying is not a wimp, that person is deluded.

A person who chooses to carry a gun for self-defense who has undertaken to master the firearm itself, to understand when they are legally authorized to defend themselves with deadly force, to come to grips with their own ability to intentionally and with prejudice end the life of another human being rather than relinquish their own, and who has made their peace as they feel necessary with their own Creator for taking such responsibility into their own hands is no wimp.

That person is a human being who has made a serious decision about a serious subject, and that decision should be respected.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Grenadier (Feb 12, 2009)

His choice, and his opinion.  Even if I strongly disagree with his opinion, he does have a right to have such an opinion, and he has the right to do as he chooses.  

The way I see it, I'd rather NOT close quarters with an opponent, unless it were absolutely necessary.  Even though I have over two decades of experience in the martial arts, I'll readily admit that anyone, no matter how untrained or unskilled, is capable of landing a lucky blow, and anyone, no matter how well-trained or skilled, is capable of being hit by such a blow.  

Now, imagine instead of one unskilled attacker, that there are now five.  Bad odds, even for experienced fighters.  

Now, imagine that hand (or those hands) holding a knife or club.  Now your rotten odds have become even more putrid.  

I will simply disagree with the individual mentioned in the OP's post, since it's not being a wimp, but rather, utilizing one's intelligence to use the best possible defensive weapon available to survive the encounter.  If that means using a firearm to stop the attackers before they can close in, so be it.  

I'd rather be intact and alive to face the taunts from individuals in the OP's post, than to be stuck in the hospital with many broken bones, or buried six feet under and be called "manly."  



Now, instead of a knife or club, imagine that the hand is holding a firearm.


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## Drac (Feb 12, 2009)

The amount of stupidity that some people have AMAZES me...


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## Kreth (Feb 12, 2009)

Several years ago, a friend of mine actually got upset with me, because I told him that I would much rather shoot someone who broke into my home, than go hand-to-hand with him and risk something going wrong.


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 12, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> See, this guys a Tough Guy. You know the type. And in his mind, the fact that he trains MMA means that he can take anybody... Because he's a Tough Guy. So he doesn't need a gun. Only wimps need guns.


 
Perhaps, given his overwhelming bravado, it is just as well that he doesn't want to own a gun.


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## shesulsa (Feb 12, 2009)

Guys like that are just as bad as the plethora of people they make fun of ... like, TMAists who don't compete.

The POINT is ... train for your purpose, your ability.  Supplement if you need to.

The AXIOM is ... if you think you can't learn something from absolutely anyone - even the poorest, stupidest person alive ... then you're not learning at all.

The JUDGEMENT is ... underestimation; and that is a dangerous thing for him.

*proud to be a wimp*


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## exile (Feb 12, 2009)

The logic here is essentially the same as saying, seatbelts and airbags are for wimps; a _real man/woman_ would be able to survive a head-on impact with another vehicle and walk away from the car, no doubt swaggering...


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 12, 2009)

exile said:


> a _real man/woman_ would be able to survive a head-on impact with another vehicle and walk away from the car, no doubt swaggering...



You misspelled 'staggering'


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 12, 2009)

exile said:


> The logic here is essentially the same as saying, seatbelts and airbags are for wimps; a _real man/woman_ would be able to survive a head-on impact with another vehicle and walk away from the car, no doubt swaggering...


 
Indeed. If a male adult feels the need to brag about whom he can take down -- with his BJJ or his gun -- well, he's got a maturity problem.  As I said before, I'd prefer a tool like that not have a gun and just let natural selection take its course.

As for auto safety, seatbelts and airbags are a conspiracy of the government. Without them, we'd have more organ donors, thus driving organ prices down. It's a librul scheme to interfere with a free market economy.:uhyeah:


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## jarrod (Feb 12, 2009)

well a wimp carjacked vanderlei silva a few years back.

jf


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## searcher (Feb 12, 2009)

Did I miss the handing out of bullet-proof bodies when I started training in MAs?   I guess I am king of the wimps then.

It is good to be king.


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## kaizasosei (Feb 12, 2009)

Isn't the INITIAL motive to learn martial arts for most everyone always tied to some form of serious wimpiness. 

All weapons are just and extention of what the body can do. 
How about boshuriken?? Does it make you a wimp if you train them? 
I don't see how. I can see that a gun would be a great thing for a wimp and most any tough guy would ****  bricks being confronted with a gun.

However, it's all about strategy and having or using a gun has absolutely nothing to do with wimpiness. It has to do with superiority. Denying reality is never a great idea. 

j


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 12, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> When carried as a weapon for self-defense, guns are a personal acknowledgment of the lengths to which the person carrying the weapon is willing to go to protect their own life. Most people do not know, if you ask them, if they would be 'willing to kill another human being'. It's not something many people think about. A person who chooses to go about armed has already made that decision, consciously or not.
> 
> In my opinion, a person carrying a gun for self-defense should have already examined the moral, legal, ethical, and if necessary, religious implications of what they have chosen to do by carrying a gun. Choosing to carry a gun is a tacit admission that the person who carries will, in certain circumstances, end the life of another human being rather than have their own life ended. By carrying a gun, a person has increased the chances that any confrontation will end in death of one or both participants.
> 
> ...


 
Already repped you for a previous post you made, but wanted to chime in my agreement here. Great post.

The steps a responsible person must take I always outline and I always tell people I've learned from my and others' experience that they must go in *exactly* this order:

Step 1: *U*nderstand *T*he *P*roblem (that there are bad people who do bad things to people in this world, and the only one present when the incident is happening is you, government or police agencies before they can do ANYTHING must first A) be notified of a problem and B) get there in time. (Remember--When seconds count, they're only minutes away.)With the average response time longer than the incident lasts, realize the only line of defense is the one YOU are willing and able to put up).

Step 2: Answer *T*he *Q*uestion ("Can you, in order to save yourself, loved ones , or innocents, take a life"). If the answer is "yes", proceed to the remaining steps. If the answer is uncertain, take some unarmed training for now. If the answer is "no," *DO NOT carry a weapon,* since having it/presenting it without willingness to use it just made your world an even bigger nightmare once Those Causing A Problem sense it.Stick to Situational awareness and unarmed training only unless/until you have arrived at a different answer.

Step 3: Seek appropriate training (take a basic firearms safety course, then take a specific self defense/concealed carry course, or if this is not economically feasible, at minimum seek out books/video on the subject from those who *U*nderstand *T*he *P*roblem, until you can save up to take the on site instruction). Just as you have the right to seek the best means of self defense you can, and at least here, the right to bear arms, Just as strongly do you owe the responsibility to your fellow citizens to be trained in the physical/legal aspects of defensive gun use so as not to endanger them should shooting be required.

Step 4: Obtain legal authorization( Document your training, apply for permit to carry in jurisdictions where it is required.

Step 5: Then, and ONLY then, carry that weapon.


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 12, 2009)

kaizasosei said:


> .
> 
> However, it's all about strategy and having or using a gun has absolutely nothing to do with wimpiness. It has to do with superiority. Denying reality is never a great idea.
> 
> j



"God created man, Sam Colt made them equal"


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## Carol (Feb 12, 2009)

Ya know...I hope to never, ever be in legal trouble because of my training.  But if I ever get to the point where I'm "tried by 12 instead of carried by 6", I sure as heck want that jury to think I'm a wimp.


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## tellner (Feb 12, 2009)

FearlessFreep said:


> "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal"


Or like they used to inscribe on revolvers:



> Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 13, 2009)

Maybe someone should remind the MMA stud that even the legendary Gracies don't condemn the idea of using firearms...I think it was Royce who once said (in referrence to multiple attacker scenarios) "more than one, get a gun"



tellner said:


> Or like they used to inscribe on revolvers:
> 
> 
> > Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size; when danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize


 
nice, never heard that before...source for that?


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## seasoned (Feb 13, 2009)

Most forms of MA have a weapons system, it just seems natural, in these modern times, if possible, we should take advantage of any and all options. But, as martial artist, we know training is of the utmost importance. So, as diligently as we train with our bodies, we should ever more train with any given firearm. But as Bill M mentions, there is a very serious side to self defense that everyone needs to address in our minds. Firearms maim or kill quite readily, and, are we prepared for this responsibility. Self defense comes in different degrees, and not all situations will/or should, end in death. There are times when I carry a firearm and times when I decide not to, this is a personal choice. Just always keep in mind that if you decide to carry, that in the heat of battle, you may lose that weapon, and perhaps effectively arm your attacker. As I have mentioned, there are different degrees of self defense, from a simple verbal confrontation, to an all out rape or robbery. Good common sense, knowledge of local laws, and a good understanding of firearms handling, will go a long way in our endeavors to ensure our safety and the safety of our loved ones. (wimp, no, just a concerned citizen, with a desire to live life to its fullest, in peace and harmony).


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## tellner (Feb 13, 2009)

KT, it's been around for a long time. I believe that at one time it was inscribed onto the grips of Colt revolvers.


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