# In over my head.



## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

I've got a problem --

A good kid, a friend of mine, is seriously getting pressured to join the local gangs.

The main two gangs in the area are the established, the Nortenos, and the Surenos are moving in. This kid is Phillipino/Caucasian, but he looks latino.

He doesn't want anything to do with gangs, he tried to live with family out of state, but it didn't work. Now he's back, facing the same pressures.

He's not being lured in, so much as being strongarmed in. Since he's independent, he's attacked (physically) by the local gangs from either side, until he joins one. Most of the non-latino community here thinks that there are no gangs in the area, and it is true that most of them here are the washouts and the posers. But they still take themselves too seriously.

I've earned his respect, and I know that, but I'm his Grandmother's pastor. He doesn't want to be "Grandma's Boy" and go with her to church, let alone be seen in public with her pastor.

This is a world that I've never been around -- I don't know how it works.

Any suggestions on how I can keep this kid from getting sucked in to a whole lot of problems?


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2010)

You have every right to be just as concerned about the wannabes as you do about the hardened criminals.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81351

How old is the boy in question? 

When you say he is "independent" does that mean he is unaffiliated with other gangs? 

Does he go to school? Work? 

I don't have many answers, but I think this will help those that are more knowledgable than I am.


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## Draven (Mar 23, 2010)

To be honest you have more to fear from posers then professionals, posers and wonnabes are always trying to "prove themselves."

Well he's got one of three choices at this point and none of them are "good."
1. Stand his ground and seriously hurt a few to make an example out of them, I mean this has to be real bad like tubes and ER beds bad...
2. He can join one or the other...
3. He can start calling 911 and telling on everyone of them, which will cause more problems & might put him into a have to revert to option 1.

There is option four which is do nothing...

Personnally, I'm leaning to option one. I had similar situation with a friend of mine who was 14 and was getting jumped by these 6 guys (youngest was 17 & oldest was 22). If I stood up for him they'd back down from me and jump later when I wasn't around. So I taught him some basic MA technques and explained to him he needed to show them he wasn't a "victim." After a few situations, he when to their house to get an X-box, $100 coat and some other stuff they stole from him & when they decided to "jump him" the last time. He took a baseball bat to them, 2 ran off and 4 got messed up.

See here is the thing, in the above example I know it wasn't handled in the best possible way. That said, there isn't really a best possible way, he can't have someone protect him all the time & he needs to make an example out of the "alphas" to keep the "betas" in their place.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 23, 2010)

Draven said:


> To be honest you have more to fear from posers then professionals, posers and wonnabes are always trying to "prove themselves."



Especially true online, huh Ron?


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## Sukerkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Fighting back hard is a seductive tack to take, one that ticks all the 'Hollywood' boxes.  But in the real world that can be seriously bad advice.  

Gangs may be full of hyeanas rather than lions but that doesn't mean that dishing out some whupass on them will do the trick - they'll just slink in when your back is turned and pull you down that way.

Then you have the legal side to consider.  It's ironic and wrong but an essentially law-abiding kid who goes postal under pressure to try and alleviate that pressure is more likely to end up in serious legal trouble.


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## Flea (Mar 23, 2010)

Is it feasible to help him to move?  It's drastic, but considering how high the stakes can be with gang membership it might be worth it.  Even if he doesn't have family he can settle in with, there has to be some friend somewhere, or even social programs he can fall back on to help with the transition.


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## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

Carol said:


> You have every right to be just as concerned about the wannabes as you do about the hardened criminals.
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81351
> 
> ...


 
He's 15, but he's tall, so he looks much older, around 17 or 18.

"Independent" here means unaffiliated with gangs, and also losing friends who he recognizes as a bad influence.

Since he just moved back into the area, the local school won't do anything with him, since he can't transfer the work from the partial semester, and pass the classes here this semester. It's stupid, but the school district here is in terrible shape.

It's a bad combination -- he's just floating during the day while his grandmother works, and his mom is out of it. (drugs, abusive boyfriend, etc.)


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2010)

thardey said:


> He's 15, but he's tall, so he looks much older, around 17 or 18.
> 
> "Independent" here means unaffiliated with gangs, and also losing friends who he recognizes as a bad influence.
> 
> ...


 
You and the family are in my prayers :asian: 

Does your city have a community policing office? Can you meet with an officer (without the boy) to discuss the situation? Keep one thing in mind though...the peace officers and other community officials may be struggling to determine what sort of activity is really happening in the area. My city, for example, has a reputation for being the worst in the state for gang trouble, yet when reading between the lines in some of the coverage in the paper, it is not clear to me whether the reputation is truly grounded in gang or gang-like activity (wannabes, intimidation, etc) or whether the complaints are grounded more in how a person looks (race, fashion, etc)

Is it feasible for him to start a part-time job so he is somewhat engaged after school while waiting for his grandmother to return home?  Does his school offer any sort of aftercare or after-school activities to keep him engaged?


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## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

Draven said:


> To be honest you have more to fear from posers then professionals, posers and wonnabes are always trying to "prove themselves."
> 
> Well he's got one of three choices at this point and none of them are "good."
> 1. Stand his ground and seriously hurt a few to make an example out of them, I mean this has to be real bad like tubes and ER beds bad...
> ...


 
That's about all the options I see at this point, too.
He's been very luck in that he's fought his way out of "disparity of force situations" (which is luck in itself) and doubly lucky that both the school board and the police recognized them that way. Once a guy in school pulled a knife (multiple witnesses), and once he was attacked by a guy in his 20's. (Cops confirmed that.) A couple of the cops know what his situation is, as well, but their hands are tied.

On another occasion the thugs were standing in front of his house, challenging him to come out and fight, and this kid stayed smart: he armed himself with a knife, but never stepped outside. 

But I agree with Sukerkin -- he's drawn a boundary line, and will have to continue to fight to defend that, but going into the jackal's den will escalate things beyond what he can handle. For 98% of the day, he has no one there to back him up.

What I'm looking for is a "hook" -- some way to get him busy in something healthy, so that he's not on the streets as a potential recruit. He does Young Marines, but that's like once a week, or less. Church isn't working, it's "not cool" to hang out there. And the local youth help organization (Youth for Christ) which is "cool" is right on the edge of the high school, and largely unsupervised.


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## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

Flea said:


> Is it feasible to help him to move? It's drastic, but considering how high the stakes can be with gang membership it might be worth it. Even if he doesn't have family he can settle in with, there has to be some friend somewhere, or even social programs he can fall back on to help with the transition.


 
That's what we've been trying, and we just ran out of options.

He's half-white, so he wasn't accepted in Hawaii, where his dad lives (also serious conflict with the religious views), he's half-Phillipino, so he isn't "white enough" for our racially divided community. (You're either "white" or you're Mexican" here -- nobody else, and no crossing lines). And the Mexican community doesn't like him, since he only "looks" latino. Any place we could send him to at this point would put him into the same situation, but without a support system.

His half brother is younger, and is white/black, which in this community is easier, since on the surface we don't want to be "racist." (That is, blacks (African Americans, whichever) are accepted and encouraged here. Plus, the gangs here are racially motivated, and there are no gangs that would take him, even if he wanted to join.


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## jks9199 (Mar 23, 2010)

Keep involved, and keep him busy.  Work with the school counselors, and you may have a local/regional gang intervention program that can provide some tips.  Also, make sure the staff of the Young Marines knows about the situation; they may have other activities available.  The reality is that the gangs can put a lot of pressure on a kid -- but it can be and IS resisted successfully in many cases.  Keep the communication channels open to you; can you get him involved in your martial arts?

It sounds like the kid already has a strong support system; that's the biggest tool in keeping kids out of gangs.  If they have family and community support, they aren't going to go looking for it from the gang.

*Do not* try to have play one gang off against the other... all that will do is put him in a crossfire.

FYI -- not only do you have Norteno and Sureno gangs in Oregon, you've got quite a few other gangs, including Bloods, Crips, and other similar gangs, and LOTS of white supremacist gangs.


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2010)

Here is a PDF with Oregon's laws regarding employment of minors.

http://www.obop.net/BOLI/WHD/CLU/docs/employmentminorsbrochure2009.pdf

In a nutshell, until he turns 16, he'll be limited to working 3 hours a day on days school is in session, and 18 hours a week total, but this is still a fair amount for an after school job. Virtually all employers will also set up direct deposit so he will not have to be concerned with cashing a paycheck or walking around with cash. For obvious reasons, it may be best to avoid working at Staples or Best Buy...should he chose to do so, make sure he knows to change in to and out of his work clothes at work.

He will not need a work permit, or written permission from a parent or guardian.

Until he turns 18, he'll be barred from using hazardous equipment. For example, he can serve pizza but cannot drive a car to delier it. He can work in a grocery store, but not running the meat slicer. 

He will need sufficient documents for the I-9. If he does not have them, they can be easily obtained by contacting the school or appropriate agencies. I've ordered copies of my birth certificate from VitalChek without issue.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 23, 2010)

Well done, Carol on digging out the relevant legislation :applause:


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## Draven (Mar 23, 2010)

Sukerkin said:


> Then you have the legal side to consider. It's ironic and wrong but an essentially law-abiding kid who goes postal under pressure to try and alleviate that pressure is more likely to end up in serious legal trouble.


 
My advise is this, try to do everything but fight. When you its a fight treat it like a war.


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## Omar B (Mar 23, 2010)

Carol, great point about getting the guy a job.  You would be surprised how little a bunch of pack animals want to have to do with a working man.


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## Deaf Smith (Mar 23, 2010)

thardey,

I really sympathize. Sounds like a good kid and you hate to see them swallowed up by the local gangs and see a good kid lost to that world.

I think Carol is right to. Help him get a job. That will not only increase his independence and self worth, but give him some money so he is not temped or lured by gangs. Plus it keeps his mind busy!

And maybe he needs a Walt Kowalski.

Deaf


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## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

That's a good idea, I'll see what I can do to help him get a job.

I wish we had enough to hire him at the church. 

The good thing is that it's such a small community that he'd be able to ride a bike or walk to wherever he could get a job.


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## Carol (Mar 23, 2010)

thardey said:


> That's a good idea, I'll see what I can do to help him get a job.
> 
> I wish we had enough to hire him at the church.
> 
> The good thing is that it's such a small community that he'd be able to ride a bike or walk to wherever he could get a job.



Best thing you can do is help him help himself.  Guide him in helping him keep a good attitude, researching employers beforehand, speaking clearly and with good diction/grammar, carrying 2 pens to the interview, etc.  The school may have resources, I was in a work program at my high school. If the state has an unemployment office in your town, I think he will get a lot out of sitting down with a counselor for a few minutes.  They will likely have some materials there that will help him get his first job also


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## thardey (Mar 23, 2010)

Carol said:


> Best thing you can do is help him help himself. Guide him in helping him keep a good attitude, researching employers beforehand, speaking clearly and with good diction/grammar, carrying 2 pens to the interview, etc. The school may have resources, I was in a work program at my high school. If the state has an unemployment office in your town, I think he will get a lot out of sitting down with a counselor for a few minutes. They will likely have some materials there that will help him get his first job also


 
Eagle Point OR, where he lives, has a population of under 9,000. The whole city is 2.5 square miles.

There are two banks, a feed store, a liquor store, a Family-run market, some restaurants, and a brand-new Wal-mart. No public transit, and a failing school system. There are literally only two stop lights in the town, and both are related to getting to Wal-mart. I think there are a total of 3 police cars in town. Two of which are always parked at the city center.

It's about 15 miles from Medford, the city seat. Most of you woudn't qualify it as even a city -- really more of a town. There's no way for a 15 year old to get to work in Medford. So the only real jobs he's looking at right now are at Wal-mart, or as a dishwasher for one of the diners. In the summertime there's plenty of work bailing hay, but the rest of the seasonal work (mostly pear-picking) is done by the very guys that are trying to get him into the gangs to begin with. (Or at least their associates and family members.)

As far as the "gang help" goes, it's the opposite of you, Carol. The media tries to play down the gang activity, since they don't want to glorify gangsters, and those not involved (basically all the white people) think that gangs are simply a joke here. It was only after talking to a detective in Medford that I realized how fast they are growing here, due to the availability of Meth, and the convienience of shipping it up or down the I-5 corridor.

We don't have any "anti-gang" programs here, and certainly no help at Eagle Point. Sports are no good, either. Brendon had to quit football after he realized he had had a previous run-in with one of the coaches after he (the coach) used racial slurs against Brendon. (The wrong ones, to make things even worse.)

Don't get me wrong, Eagle Point is a fine place to live, as long as you're a white, conservative, middle-class american. 

I think I'm the closest thing to a Walt Kowalski he's got. Or at least a Mr. Miyagi.


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 25, 2010)

thardey said:


> What I'm looking for is a "hook" -- some way to get him busy in something healthy, so that he's not on the streets as a potential recruit. He does Young Marines, but that's like once a week, or less. Church isn't working, it's "not cool" to hang out there. And the local youth help organization (Youth for Christ) which is "cool" is right on the edge of the high school, and largely unsupervised.



I admit that I am woefully ignorant on US social behavior of teenagers, but why is he 'on the the streets' anyway? I mean streets are for getting from one place to the other, not for hanging out all day.

When I was his age, I was reading all day, spending time behind my game console, doing chores or doing other things people generally do in their home / yard.


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## thardey (Mar 25, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> I admit that I am woefully ignorant on US social behavior of teenagers, but why is he 'on the the streets' anyway? I mean streets are for getting from one place to the other, not for hanging out all day.
> 
> When I was his age, I was reading all day, spending time behind my game console, doing chores or doing other things people generally do in their home / yard.


 

Because the "streets" (or parks, or any public place that doesn't cost money to be at) get him away from his mother and her abusive boyfriend. 

Which brings me to an update: The CPA has already given custody of the younger brother to his grandmother, (because of the mother's refusal to stay away from the violent and abusive boyfriend) and this week the sheriff required Brendon to go back to school, even if he doesn't get credits. 

So that's good news (that's he back in school) and I think it may actually help get him into a job after school hours.


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## Brian King (Mar 26, 2010)

Understanding that your church does not have enough resources to pay the young man for work but there are other rewards from doing honest work than cash. Men need to feel that they are needed and appreciated. Grab the young man and the two of you do chores around the church, find some grandmother or old veteran and volunteer the young man to help them. Get him doing hard physical work that he can take pride in when finished. Get him doing little house fix ups for some people he may find a talent and skill that he can turn into a career later on in life. His volunteering will look good on collage applications and give him pride in his accomplishments and if you are helping him gives him at least one role model on how a man behaves. Even a little work with the right 'supervisor' and supervision can offer lessons that can change this young mans family tree. It is not easy being 15 and not having a good male role model in his life, just your understanding and being there for him might make a difference. For yourself, you have to be prepared for failure. Praise to Him no matter the finale outcome. 
Good luck and God Bless
Regards
Brian King


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## kidswarrior (Mar 27, 2010)

Having worked with gang members for awhile, I see some good suggestions here already, e.g, some kind of productive pastime (paid or hobby) and strong mentoring. But unfortunately, that is sometimes not enough.

Over the years, I've seen gangs back off a kid for two reasons. 'Going christian' is usually respected by Hispanic gangs (norteno & sureno are the two umbrella designations). Whether cool or not, if it keeps him from getting jumped every time he walks out the door, it may have its appeal.

The second thing I've seen is, a match fight sponsored by older gang members (those who don't outgrow the gang at adulthood, but keep on in the life). I realize this sounds abhorrent, and I hate violence myself. I am not advocating this, but desperate times and all that. Think of it as a vaccination against some larger evil. The older members set up the time and place of the match and guarantee no weapons, etc. I had a kid do this awhile back, and both he and the other guy got in their licks, and then it was squashed. NOTE, though, both parties must show up or it becomes an automatic green light on the no-show. I hate to even post this, but do so out of empathy for the boy's dilemma. 

The thing with Hispanic gangs (in my experience) is, it's all about turf. So the more turf you can claim from your enemies, the more powerful you are. This has a correlation; a gang is only as strong as the enemies it defeats. So the back-and-forth is a way of life. Fighting and even defeating once or twice a roving clique will only intensify his rivalry with them. Until he joins them, he's an enemy from whom they draw power by the contest. Even defeating one small group a time or two will only heighten the violence the next time. No winning that way.

Anyway, best wishes and I think we'd all like to know how it's going if you can offer updates. The young man is fortunate to have a male adult who cares so deeply.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 27, 2010)

Very wise words from *Brian* and *Kidswarrior* there :bows of respect:


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 27, 2010)

Is there a Civil Air Patrol squadron in his area?

www.cap.gov

If he does Young Marines nce a week he'll dig this another once a week and that's another once a week he can't be bothered.

EDIT: Here are the nearest 3 units to Eagle Point, OR:


8.0 miles
View Map MEDFORD COMPOSITE SQDN
Unit Contact: Lt Col Mark S Herrett
Contact Phone: (541) 482-4581
Contact e-mail: 
Meeting Address: 5060 CIRRUS DRIVE
DELZELL MEMORIAL HANGAR
MEDFORD, OR 97504
Unit Web Address: 
Meeting Time: 1900 TUESDAY
Charter Number: PCR OR007Unit Notes: 


20 miles
View Map ASHLAND SENIOR FLIGHT
Unit Contact: Capt Christopher V W Adams
Contact Phone: (541) 482-9152
Contact e-mail: chris@cvwahomes.com
Meeting Address: ASHLAND/PARKER AIRPORT
CAP HANGER
ASHLAND, OR 97520
Unit Web Address: 
Meeting Time: 1900 Tuesday
Charter Number: PCR OR054
Unit Notes: MEETINGS ARE 1ST & 3RD TUES. 2ND & 4TH TUES WE MEET WITH MEDFORD SQDN.


33 miles
View Map GRANTS PASS COMPOSITE SQDN
Unit Contact: Maj Dan W Dirksen
Contact Phone: 
Contact e-mail: ddirksen@charter.net
Meeting Address: 1440 BROOKSIDE BLVD
MERLIN, OR 97532
Unit Web Address: gpcap.cjb.net 
Meeting Time: 1900 TUESDAY
Charter Number: PCR OR037
Unit Notes:


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## Omar B (Mar 27, 2010)

Brian said:


> Understanding that your church does not have enough resources to pay the young man for work but there are other rewards from doing honest work than cash. Men need to feel that they are needed and appreciated. Grab the young man and the two of you do chores around the church, find some grandmother or old veteran and volunteer the young man to help them. Get him doing hard physical work that he can take pride in when finished. Get him doing little house fix ups for some people he may find a talent and skill that he can turn into a career later on in life. His volunteering will look good on collage applications and give him pride in his accomplishments and if you are helping him gives him at least one role model on how a man behaves. Even a little work with the right 'supervisor' and supervision can offer lessons that can change this young mans family tree. It is not easy being 15 and not having a good male role model in his life, just your understanding and being there for him might make a difference. For yourself, you have to be prepared for failure. Praise to Him no matter the finale outcome.
> Good luck and God Bless
> Regards
> Brian King



I second that man.  I have a sorta similar story when I first moved to NY.  My area is a Latin Kings stronghold and I don't go in for that sort of thing.  One day the old lady next door saw me changing my father's tire that had gone flat overnight.  So she invited me in to help her with the sink.  Next thing you know I was fixing garage doors, unclogging sinks etc all over my block.  Turns out I met one of my best friends Mike because of this, he lived across the street, now he works full time buying and restoring houses for resale.


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## Archangel M (Mar 27, 2010)

Most of the "pressure" and "getting beat up" from gangs happens because the kid is hanging out with people or in places where the gangs frequent. Getting a job or something to keep him occupied is good advice and probably the best option next to moving away, which is the best yet most difficult solution.


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## Brian King (Mar 28, 2010)

Pastor you said that he has Filipino blood flowing in him. I know it is a small town, but start getting him involved in his heritage and culture. It is a proud warrior culture with strong family ties, and training hard is a good way of keeping out of trouble, idle hands and all that. Put a couple of rattan sticks into his hands to keep them from being idle. Go onto the FMA area of this board or that FMA board that Bob runs and find a seminar somewhere in Oregon being held. Grab the young man and go to it. Give him a taste and at the same time getting yourself a workout partner, how cool is that. Find another seminar that is 3 months out and tell him if he does good in school you will take him to that one as well, then find another and another 


Another thing that you might talk to the young man about (and talk to him about it more than once or three times) is the perspective of time. He is 15 and the world seems to spin so slowly at that age. Not yet able to drive, vote or even join the military. You have to convince the young man that time is on his side if he can develop patience. You did not say if he was intelligent and does well in school. This young man must keep his nose clean for only a couple of more years then he can escape his circumstances. School and military have helped many youths that have been at risk. If he can keep his grades up he might be able to get into a college and or the military and away from the gang lifestyle. Both will give him the time and tools to develop into a young man who might be able to return and help others that are in his circumstance. Three years is not so long to us in our 40s but to a 15 year old oh man it is three lifetimes. 


Helping a young man and his grandmother is great. God has a plan and often uses people that are weak and bucking the odds to accomplish His work. You might be able to help this young man become something in life or he might become yet another statistic breaking his grandmothers heart no matter how hard you work and pray for him. You can only try. I would warn against getting too involved with the gangs unless you are positive that God has called you to it. Dogs and fleas. It is a negative lifestyle and effects all around it whether or not directly involved. Rather than focusing on the gangs in this boys life focus on the boy. The gang problem is just his battle, and in my opinion it is a spiritual battle and it could just as easily be drugs, crime, pornography or any of the many other pitfalls that can limit or ruin young men. Pray about ways of giving him the tools needed to recognize and resist these temptations and evils in his life.


Again good luck
Regards
Brian King


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## thardey (Apr 2, 2010)

Update for you all

It's been sort of a blend of all the advice, and I got a chance to make some headway yesterday.

He's agreed to come help me one afternoon a week at the church, especially to help set up a storage area to be used for a youth group area, with TV, pool table, etc.

While clearing the area out, I started talking to him about my family's past -- the Irish/americans, and the struggles they faced with gangs after the potato famine in the 1840's.

Using history of those gangs, through the prohibition, and even into a couple of generations ago, I talked about one way the Irish started getting out from that lifestyle: many of the became Police officers.

The thinking is that they were still respected for being "tough" but they weren't seen as being "traitors" since they ended up protecting the other Irish families from being taken advantage of. The other plus is that in our county right now, there is no college requirement for applying to be a sheriff. I don't think there is for the city police, either, but I'm not sure.

That got his attention, and it's the first time I've seen him get interested in any kind of long-term solution. He simply believes that college is out of reach -- but this is a carreer he could sink his teeth into.

I had also mentioned about the CAP, and he wants to look into that -- since he's already part of the Young Marines, he's getting a good foundation for CAP and eventually police training.

The other thing I was (unexpectedly) able to talk with him about was his clothing. I wasn't going to push that, because I figured it was a decision he had to make -- but the school district will only allow him to re-enroll if he signs a "no gang" contract -- including not wearing red -- not only at school, but in off hours.

Bold Red (gang red) is his favorite color, and he was having a hard time with that. But he wears it because it has an effect on people around him. I was able to talk with him about the psychological effects of wearing red, and how many people respond defensively. 

I suggested that instead of seeking attention from wearing confrontational colors, that he try dressing a little more "upper class" than the other students. Dress shirts instead of basketball jerseys, leather shoes instead of red converse, etc. Not preppy, but just a bit of style.

People around here are easily "impressed" by such thngs as button-down shirts -- even a little intimidated. I think it will also get him more respect from the teachers -- meaning more help with school.

He's got a strong enough personality that he won't look like a nerd -- so I'm not worried about that.

With all that in mind, he decided to sign the contract, ditch the gang-like outfits, and dress a little more "grown up."

So, I get him for a couple of hours a week, he's moving away from the gang-style clothing, and is starting to plan for the future.

There's hope for him yet!


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## jks9199 (Apr 2, 2010)

Again -- check with your local police and/or sheriff's departments.  They may have an Explorer program, which would allow him to get some exposure to the real world of law enforcement... and give him a built in out for some of the pressures he's facing.


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## thardey (Apr 2, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> Again -- check with your local police and/or sheriff's departments. They may have an Explorer program, which would allow him to get some exposure to the real world of law enforcement... and give him a built in out for some of the pressures he's facing.


 
A good friend of mine recently started in the Police, and Brendan really respects him, too. I'm going to see if I can get his help in setting him up.

Some of the Young Marine instructors (commanders?) are also in the sheriff's dept., as well -- I think that's the closest we have to an explorer program. Everything sort of overlaps.


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## thardey (Apr 2, 2010)

Nevermind . . . I just found the Explorer program

I had to dig for it, though, never would have found it if you hadn't suggested it.

Thanks!


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## LuckyKBoxer (Apr 2, 2010)

I dont know if it has been suggested here yet, but the Marine Corps run a program called the Devil Pups.... disregard the name it is not what it sounds like... It is a mini boot type program they run for kids who are in rough situations. I myself did the camp about 20 something years ago. I stll have great memories of it, if nothing else it will get him away from the situation and into a structured program for a while during the summer. I strongly recommend it.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 3, 2010)

thardey said:


> A good friend of mine recently started in the Police, and Brendan really respects him, too. I'm going to see if I can get his help in setting him up.
> 
> Some of the Young Marine instructors (commanders?) are also in the sheriff's dept., as well -- I think that's the closest we have to an explorer program. Everything sort of overlaps.


 
And that's *GOOD.*

That way he knows people in all different positions of good guy authority and has better, well connected role models in a safety net kind of way.

You hang out with alpha dog people you get alpha dog friends and may just learn how to become one yourself.


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## blink13 (Apr 3, 2010)

Brian said:


> Understanding that your church does not have enough resources to pay the young man for work but there are other rewards from doing honest work than cash. Men need to feel that they are needed and appreciated. Grab the young man and the two of you do chores around the church, find some grandmother or old veteran and volunteer the young man to help them. Get him doing hard physical work that he can take pride in when finished. Get him doing little house fix ups for some people he may find a talent and skill that he can turn into a career later on in life. His volunteering will look good on collage applications and give him pride in his accomplishments and if you are helping him gives him at least one role model on how a man behaves. Even a little work with the right 'supervisor' and supervision can offer lessons that can change this young mans family tree. It is not easy being 15 and not having a good male role model in his life, just your understanding and being there for him might make a difference. For yourself, you have to be prepared for failure. Praise to Him no matter the finale outcome.
> Good luck and God Bless
> Regards
> Brian King



It worked in the movie!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Torino_%28film%29

Regarding getting around the area - easy enough to do on bike, at least while the weather's not too horrible.  I spent a few weeks in Ashland and was able to ride up to Medford and around the area north of there a few times.


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## qwksilver61 (Apr 6, 2010)

Mr Thardley,Don't know what to tell you...this has been the story of my whole life,and you would think that as you get older the bullies go away...
they don't.Being 3 1/4's German and 1/4 Native American,Dad stationed in Europe, American service man,mixed blood,dark skinned, German speaking,old German,old Native heritage.People really don care,they judge based on what they see.It's worse now than it ever was.Fix,don't be the bad guy...the kids fix,wish he did not have to be the bad guy,I would not wish his situation on anyone.I grew up getting my a@# kicked,and don't ever carry a chip,or judge
people as a whole.Wish I could help him.He does need allies or Police intervention,I don't have the real answers.I will pray for him.


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## BLACK LION (Apr 16, 2010)

thardey said:


> I've got a problem --
> 
> A good kid, a friend of mine, is seriously getting pressured to join the local gangs.
> 
> ...


 
In my pubescent years I was troubled with this same issue and since it was in the height of the gang infuence on our society(late 80's early 90's)I really had no options since my father was not walking me to and from school and going to every class with me...  The varmints still find time and ways to get to me and I was jumped countless times even from those who were considered friends.  
Its ugly but the only way to get them out is to keep them busy with things that are productive and make sure you are taking an active role in his reality.  Sometimes those little varmints just need to know there is a grown man standing by ready to bring a reckoning thier way if need be.  
In training give him the tools he needs to succeed against the lowliest of scum and train him to numb himself to stimulus and avoid thier taunting.  
He wants to be cool but he does not want to be cool in that way so he needs to be guided on the path to becoming a sheepdog...its either that or a wolf...or worse a sheep that gets caught alone and torn to pieces.  

This is a tuffy, no doubt but if he has a MAN to look up to then it will be easier for him to find the will to overcome... Teach him not to give those scumbags dominion over him...they dont deserve it and they are not going to just come and take it.    

We did have to change schools and move because of the unwanted gang trouble my older brother got into... This was in the days were they would scope you out and jump you at random and then tell you to claim thier set...if you did not they would find you and kill you.  I knew a few people that were forced into this situation and had no out.... All but one had no FATHER figure to stand by them so they just accepted it.   
My father said F-that he would take off work and follow us to every class if he had to until they got the message that they werent dealing with his sons they were dealing with him.


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