# Proper etiquette



## terryl965 (May 8, 2009)

How do you handle proper ediquette inside your school, do you have them bow in and out? Do they bow before entering the workout area? We still do but alot of people tell me this is to old school to do anymore and it is not proper in today era.


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## granfire (May 8, 2009)

we bow in before and after class, and the adults even when they receive their signed attendance card (the kids should, too, but hey, they say 'Yes Sir', you gotta pick your battles.)

We did not bow entering the workout floor, you had to walk through it to get to the restrooms, but we aquirred a couple of new Black Belts who had been taught to do so (and teens, not old fogeys!) So a lot of us adults started doing it, too and it seems to be catching on with some kids.

School moved since and the changing facilities are no longer behind the work out floor.

And who ever tells you you have too much manners...pft! You might catch attention for bowing when nobody does, but that is better than being caught rude.


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## IcemanSK (May 8, 2009)

I run a fairly strict school. (Bowing in & out, "yes sir, no sir" etc.) I'm not as strict my 1st or my current instructor are....but I'm much more strict than many schools I know of. 

Most of my students are kids (7-15 yrs old). Teaching them the benefits of discipline & respect (rather than just demanding it) is really important. It's not taught (much less demanded) very much in our American society.


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## seasoned (May 8, 2009)

What he said, plain and simple. :asian:


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## NPTKD (May 8, 2009)

simple..... don't get your *** kicked with my schools tshirt on...


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## NPTKD (May 8, 2009)

sory...wrong thread......


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## Dave Leverich (May 8, 2009)

We bow in and out of the school, and most gymnasiums out of habit heh.


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## ShelleyK (May 8, 2009)

We bow anytime we say hello to another student/teacher/instructor/master etc, and we bow on and off the mats


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## ATC (May 9, 2009)

We are bow happy. You must bow in and out of dojang. Bow to all black belts. Bow on and off the mat. Bow to any senior above you. All children must bow to their parents also.

Also yes sir and no sir to any and all questions. Plus no fist names when addressing any instructor or elder, Mr or Miss Last name.

Pretty strick school in all.


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## ACJ (May 9, 2009)

We bow in and off the dojang floor and at the start and end of class. We don't say "yes, sir", or anything like that. Technically we should be referring to out teacher as sabomnim, but that generally slides.

Depends on who's instructing that night, but it can range from a couple of warnings to straight away push-ups for breaking any rules. Our rules are pretty easy and simple though.


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## Sukerkin (May 9, 2009)

We bow in and out of the 'dojo' area and use small bows of acknowledgement if sensei corrects any flaws in our work.  Likewise, we refer to sensei as "sensei".

Maintaining a certain degree of formality and respect is very important in any martial art - I don't know if it is even more necessary with the armed arts but it certainly does not hurt to be disciplined, polite and respectful.

Like *Granfire* said above, it is far more preferrable to be thought a little 'old fashioned' with your reigi than to cause offense to someone.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2009)

First, we normally use the tachi-rei, or informal (standing) bow.  The formal bow, za-rei, (seated bow) is done only during promotions.

We bow upon entering or exiting the mat, and we generally (though not always) bow to the shomen and senseis at the beginning and end of class.  Our shomen includes photos of the founder, his instructors, and our sensei's instructors, as well as a US Flag, so it carries no religious stigma.  There is an old photo of our founder, Master Tatsuo Shimabuku, in his dojo in Okinawa, where one can see his shomen in the background, which included a depiction of Jesus Christ - I do not know why it was there, but it apparently was acceptable to both students and our founder.

We also bow when directly instructed by a black belt student, and we address all black belts as 'sensei' and show them proper respect.

Although I have no problems using the term 'sensei', apparently some have in the past, and so the term gender-appropriate 'mister' or 'ms' followed by the sensei's last name is also considered acceptable and I sometimes hear it.  Some also refer to our instructor as 'sir' instead of 'sensei'.

There are times when we do not bother with the bowing in and out at the beginning and end of class, but mostly we do.

I do not mind the formality.


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## just2kicku (May 9, 2009)

We bow going in and coming out of the dojo and to all black belts at the beginning of class. If a student needs to leave early, he will come up to each BB and bow out to say good-bye.


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## Kacey (May 9, 2009)

We bow in and out of the room (there is no separate "mat" area, just tumbling mats we put down as needed), say "yes, sir", "no, ma'am", bow to partners, etc.  Some think it's old-fashioned - but if you can't learn to control your behavior enough to be polite in a controlled environment, then I can't trust you enough to teach you ways to hurt people in an uncontrolled environment.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2009)

Kacey said:


> We bow in and out of the room (there is no separate "mat" area, just tumbling mats we put down as needed), say "yes, sir", "no, ma'am", bow to partners, etc.  Some think it's old-fashioned - but if you can't learn to control your behavior enough to be polite in a controlled environment, then I can't trust you enough to teach you ways to hurt people in an uncontrolled environment.



I agree.  I also tend to believe it shows a level of maturity and dedication.

People who are masters of their subject, willing to teach it, and able to do so effectively are not that common.  They have a limited time to teach, and a limited amount of students they can reach.  I can understand why they would wish to insist that their training be received by those willing to remain and learn, rather than those who rebel against tradition and may be here today, gone tomorrow, with that time, space, and effort wasted by the master.

In most cases, teachers no longer insist that prospective students chop wood or carry water for a year to prove their dedication before training can begin.  What little is requested - a bow, traditional signs of respect - seem a very small price to pay.


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## bluekey88 (May 9, 2009)

We bow in and out of the main training area.  Will also wait to be invited on the mat if late for a class or something.  Salute the American flag before class and bow to the instructor before and after class.

Pretty standard in my experience.

Peace,
Erik


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## Crimson Skies (May 9, 2009)

Personally,it bothers me when they call a TaeKwonDo instructor "Sensei" seeing that sensei is japanese for teacher and taekwondo is a korean art.
Our class calls him sir (With the occasional Mr. Kim)

We bow before and after sparring,bow before class,bow afterwords.


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## Sukerkin (May 9, 2009)

On the off chance that your comment was inspired by my earlier post, *CS*, I thought it pertinent to point out that I don't practise TKD but _muso jikiden eishin ryu iaido_.

However, I thought that as etiquette is something of a universal concept in martial arts that noone would object to my throwing my tuppence into the hat.


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## Cyclona (May 9, 2009)

We have to bow when we enter or exit dojang, also we bow at least twice (once to the instructor once to the flag) at the end of class, we bow more if there are higher up instructors present in the dojang at the end as well.


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## terryl965 (May 9, 2009)

Crimson Skies said:


> Personally,it bothers me when they call a TaeKwonDo instructor "Sensei" seeing that sensei is japanese for teacher and taekwondo is a korean art.
> Our class calls him sir (With the occasional Mr. Kim)
> 
> We bow before and after sparring,bow before class,bow afterwords.


 
Well young grasshoper before the term in korea came about sensei was used alot for a Korean Karate Master but then once again I am old and can remember something YEA!!!!


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## chrispillertkd (May 9, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> How do you handle proper ediquette inside your school, do you have them bow in and out? Do they bow before entering the workout area? We still do but alot of people tell me this is to old school to do anymore and it is not proper in today era.


 
What, pray tell, makes it too old school and not proper for today? I'd be very interested in their reasoning for saying this. 

At my instructor's school we bow in at the beginning and end of class to the instructor. At the beginning of class we bow to a picture of Gen. Choi that hangs in the Dojang. At the end of class we bow to both the instructor and the highest ranking student. We bow before and after class when entering or leaving the training floor (or any time we do so if we have to leave the class for some reason). We bow to each other before we work with a partner and after we conclude working with them. 

When shaking hands we support the elbow of the right hand with the palm of the left hand. We wait for the senior in rank to offer their hand first (something I need to impress the importance of more on some students  ). 

When giving something to a senior rank (or someone who is older than you) we do so with both hands. We receive things being given to us by seniors in rank or age with both hands. 

We always address seniors in rank or age by "sir" or "ma'am." Heck, my instructor, who is a 7th dan, refers to his juniors as "sir" or "ma'am", "mr." or "mrs." so I don't really think it's a big deal for me to do so, either. (Ever see a 7th dan call a white belt "Mr. Smith"? Not too common from what I've seen.)

I open the door for my instructors when walking with them. I carry their bag if I see them on the way into the school and when I leave the school with them. I turn my head when drinking if we are eating together. I fill their glass for them if they need something to drink. They've never once told me I _had_ to do these things. I want to do them as a sign of respect and gratitude for teaching me Taekwon-Do for the last 23 years. It's a debt I can't ever pay off, but at least I can make a bit of a downpayment on it.

Pax,

Chris


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## Laurentkd (May 9, 2009)

chrispillertkd said:


> What, pray tell, makes it too old school and not proper for today? I'd be very interested in their reasoning for saying this.
> 
> At my instructor's school we bow in at the beginning and end of class to the instructor. At the beginning of class we bow to a picture of Gen. Choi that hangs in the Dojang. At the end of class we bow to both the instructor and the highest ranking student. We bow before and after class when entering or leaving the training floor (or any time we do so if we have to leave the class for some reason). We bow to each other before we work with a partner and after we conclude working with them.
> 
> ...


 

Sounds like you have a lot of the "old ways" down! Our school in general does the bowing as others have said, but all the extras you mentioned are up to the individual students who pay enough attention to see them- no one is taught them. Only a few care enough to go the extra mile, but I really think it shows a lot. Of course, I only make sure my master's drink is always refilled so he doesn't take mine


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## bigmoe (May 10, 2009)

If you dont want to bow and show respect for the art take kickboxing. Karate is about tradition to me. If you cant do a move in a kata do you not teach it.


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## Cirdan (May 11, 2009)

We bow when entering or leaving the training area. Also training usually starts and ensd with two bows from a sitting position and a short period of meditation. However depending on the instructor (and if we are pressed for time) we sometimes do a single standing bow.


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## Stac3y (May 11, 2009)

I do American Karate, not Tae Kwon Do, but this is a kind of general question. We bow when entering and leaving the classroom and bow in at the beginning of class and out at the end. The kids also bow when they check in with the person taking attendance outside the classroom door. All adults (not just the instructors) are referred to with an honorific (Mr, Ms, Miss, Mrs) and their last name by everyone (students, instructors, etc.). Instructors are never called "master," "sensei," or anything other than their names. 

Bowing to your sparring partner is optional for adults, but most of us do it anyway. The kids are required to bow to their instructors when sparring and to touch gloves and compliment each other ("Good match!") at the end of a match. Gloating or boasting are sharply reprimanded by most instructors.

During class, any students not actively engaged in some sort of exercise are supposed to be in standing attention stance; or, if told to sit, in seated attention stance. If a student is called up to demonstrate a technique with the instructor, student and instructor bow to each other after the demonstration. Bowing when greeting another student or an instructor is optional.

Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?


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## Bill Mattocks (May 11, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?



No, but our sensei will give us pushups if we disrespect weapons like sais or bo staffs by dropping them on the floor.


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## Cirdan (May 11, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?


 
Never heard of that tradition before. We use the belt for anything.. jumping rope, for stretching, even putting it on the floor and stepping on it for some exercises. We do however mildly discourage students from washing the belt.


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## jim777 (May 11, 2009)

We are definitely a 'bow happy' school, as someone earlier in the thread put it. And you better not comer out of that bow (at the beginning or end of class) before the Black Belts if you don't want 50 extra pushups either 

Personally, I love it. I love all the old school ways and actions that help to remind you of where you are, and why you are there. There are more of them in my Japanese classes than in the TKD classes, but I like them all regardless.


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## searcher (May 11, 2009)

Iceman hit it on the head.    We do it exactly the same.


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## Twin Fist (May 11, 2009)

we bow comming into or leaving the school

we start and end class by bowing to the instructor and the flag

we bow to each other when doing partner work

we bow a lot.

anyone wants to tell me "you cant do that these days" will be invited to find another class


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## K31 (May 12, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?



That takes me back to my Judo days. You did not disrespect your belt by dropping it or dragging it on the floor. We were taught right off how to fold our uniform and tie the belt around it. 

In the dojang where I'm currently a student, I've frequently seen student forget their belt. In my Judo class this would have gotten you 50 pushups the first time it happened. In this dojang they threaten to give you pushups the next time. I've seen students drag their belts and throw their belts on the floor. The instructor threatened to take them away (demote them). The only time it's permissible to consciously place your belt on the floor is when you are being promoted. Basically because there is no other place to put it. 

I'm glad my latest TKD instructor enforces etiquette more than the last. It stops a lot of the horseplay and I find myself being more polite in my everyday life. Plus, I kind of missed it. An MA just isn't an MA without etiquette.


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## Mark Lynn (May 12, 2009)

In my class I teach the students in their first class that we.
1) Bow before entering the room (our training area), this is to remind them this is a TKD class and not day care.
2) When I call out "line up" they are to line up in desending rank order in full uniforms, then partial uniforms and then no uniforms.  And they are to be in a straight line not a curvy or wavy line.
3) Then bow in.  I also explain what the bow means.
4) When I give them a mid way water break we again bow out and then the kids again bow out of the room and back in again and then we bow back in class.
5) When I call line up we again line up as we had before and bow out.

I also make them raise their hand if they have a question or a need (bathroom).  When I tell them to sit, I'm making them sit cross legged and they are not to lean against any of the equipment etc. etc.

We bow when I have them demonstrate something with me before we begin and then when we end, before they rejoin their line.  Before they spar or do drills we bow to show respect and then when we finish we bow again.

I refer to the adults as Mr. Miss. sometimes interjecting their first name especially if their last name is hard to pronounce.  I have an asistant who I'll have students refer to as sensei Zack (his first name) only because he is a junior and I believe he is to young for the term Mr.  But I believe that the students should show repsect for his black belt rank.  But I have the students call me Mr. Lynn.

The kids enjoy calling Zack "sensei Zack" and they pay him the same respect that they pay other instructors.  If I have him or any student a lead role (leading a drill, teaching someone etc. etc.) then everyone is to pay them respect and give them their attention as they would give me or Zack.

When meeting/greeting people I find myself giving them a slight bow out of respect and courtesty.  But I don't make my students do that.


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## Stac3y (May 12, 2009)

K31 said:


> In the dojang where I'm currently a student, I've frequently seen student forget their belt. In my Judo class this would have gotten you 50 pushups the first time it happened. In this dojang they threaten to give you pushups the next time.


 
Students who show up without their belts where I train are given the choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.


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## granfire (May 12, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Students who show up without their belts where I train are given the choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.




oohhhhhh niceeeeeee

We only have the kids do push ups....(though sometimes the parentsought to do them)


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## Errant108 (May 12, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Well young grasshoper before the term in korea came about sensei was used alot for a Korean Karate Master but then once again I am old and can remember something YEA!!!!



I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.


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## granfire (May 12, 2009)

Errant108 said:


> I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying here.




It was in reference to somebody complaining that in a Korean MA the instructor would be called by a Japanese title.


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## dancingalone (May 12, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Do any of you have a prohibition against putting belts on the floor? We don't (in fact, when a new belt is awarded after testing, the old one is folded, knotted, and dropped on the floor at the student's feet), but I've heard that a lot of schools do. Our belt tradition is that you must never remove that knot; if you do, you'll forget everything you learned at that level. Anyone else do that?



I think too many schools focus too much on the trappings of martial arts, rather than the substance.  While I do use a (greatly reduced) color belt system, I harp on the fact that it's the skill that counts rather than the belt.  When I was coming up the ranks, I was always a bit embarrassed to line up ahead of a certain classmate of mine since he was far more skilled than me.  

What does it matter whether you let the belt drop on the floor or not?  I teach out of a custom dojo built inside my home.  Changing space is at a premium so it's impractical to hold onto rituals like the one you describe, particularly since they're inauthentic to begin with.


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## Errant108 (May 13, 2009)

granfire said:


> It was in reference to somebody complaining that in a Korean MA the instructor would be called by a Japanese title.



Yes, and I still don't understand exactly what Terry's response was supposed to mean.


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## jim777 (May 13, 2009)

I HATE having my belt hit the floor, but that's just me. My TKD dojang has no rules against it. In my Seido dojo it is frowned upon as impolite, but no hard rule there either.

If you show up for class without your belt in TKD, you line up at the end of the line, after the white belts, and you win a luxurious (they're really nice!) set of 50 pushups as well 

In Seido, because its the Honbu they have belts at the desk so you can borrow one if you leave yours at home accidentally.


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## jim777 (May 13, 2009)

Errant108 said:


> Yes, and I still don't understand exactly what Terry's response was supposed to mean.



Without putting words in the Master's mouth, I believe he was saying that calling your TKD Master "sensei" used to be a much more common and acceptable thing, and that he remembers those days because he has been around TKD for so long. 

Again though, I don't really want to presume to speak for him, so my apologies if I got that wrong.


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## dortiz (May 13, 2009)

"I think too many schools focus too much on the trappings of martial arts, rather than the substance."

Fair, but sometimes those trappings are a foundation. Respect for the uniform can build respect for the art and respect for the other students. Its these foundations that create Martail Artists and not fighters. Respect to spar safely etc. 
Its not really about the belt proper or the bowing as much as its intrinsic value in the art you commit yourself to. 

Dave O.


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## Wasabinyc (May 13, 2009)

stac3y said:


> students who show up without their belts where i train are given her choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.



lol !


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## Errant108 (May 13, 2009)

dortiz said:


> Its these foundations that create Martail Artists and not fighters. Respect to spar safely etc.



To be a martial artist, you must be a fighter.  You may be more than a fighter, but if you are not a fighter, you are not a martial artist.


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Students who show up without their belts where I train are given the choice of wearing a white belt and training at the back of the class with the white belts, or going home.


 
We have a nice pink belt for them to wear.


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## Wasabinyc (May 13, 2009)

I believe in a strong foundation on etiquette and tradition when you are a lower belt like before green.  After that let's just focus on teaching the skills and having fun.  Unless the student is consistantly improper or disruptive in class.  Some instructors and masters have this power trip just cause.  I don't think that is good.  We are human and make mistakes.


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## dortiz (May 13, 2009)

"To be a martial artist, you must be a fighter. You may be more than a fighter, but if you are not a fighter, you are not a martial artist. "

Exactly!


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## dancingalone (May 13, 2009)

dortiz said:


> "I think too many schools focus too much on the trappings of martial arts, rather than the substance."
> 
> Fair, but sometimes those trappings are a foundation. Respect for the uniform can build respect for the art and respect for the other students. Its these foundations that create Martail Artists and not fighters. Respect to spar safely etc.
> Its not really about the belt proper or the bowing as much as its intrinsic value in the art you commit yourself to.
> ...



I understand your point, Dave.  There's a reason why army recruits have to keep their uniforms in tip-top shape.  It's part of the indoctrination required to be an efficient soldier able and willing to follow orders on a moment's notice.  I can see the correlation into martial arts, but I'll confess to rolling my eyes when I hear the various flora like "don't wash your belt or you will lose all your knowledge".  It's just too much for me suspend my disbelief for.  I mean, come on.


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## Errant108 (May 13, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> I'll confess to rolling my eyes when I hear the various flora like "don't wash your belt or you will lose all your knowledge".  It's just too much for me suspend my disbelief for.  I mean, come on.



To qoute a friend of mine, statements like those show you who has an actual understanding of Asian martial culture...and who watched too much Samurai Saturday Night.


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## jim777 (May 13, 2009)

We do tell our students not to wash their belts, but because they should be proud of the dirt and wear they accumulate through hard practice. We don't tell them they'll forget stuff or anything like that  But then, with some students it's pretty difficult getting them to wash their dobaks at all, so belt washing hasn't been a problem! :lol:


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## Wasabinyc (May 13, 2009)

I lost somethng here, when wouldyou ever find the need to wash a belt?


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2009)

Errant108 said:


> To qoute a friend of mine, statements like those show you who has an actual understanding of Asian martial culture...and who watched too much Samurai Saturday Night.


 
I was at a tournament last year and the promoter was promoted to 9th dan by some jackoff who claimed 10th dan (a story for another time).  Anyway, he went on to explain how the Koreans bowed a certain way when doing such an ceremony with everyone going osu.  I had a bloody lip from bitting down on it trying to refrain from laughing out loud.  Way too many movies.


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2009)

Wasabinyc said:


> I lost somethng here, when wouldyou ever find the need to wash a belt?


 
When it got dirty.  If your belt isn't getting dirty, you are not working hard enough.


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## miguksaram (May 13, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> I hear the various flora like "don't wash your belt or you will lose all your knowledge".


 
Crap...that explains a lot...here I thought I was just getting old and most of my memories was replaced by malted barely and hops and bong residue from my youth.


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## Errant108 (May 13, 2009)

miguksaram said:


> I was at a tournament last year and the promoter was promoted to 9th dan by some jackoff who claimed 10th dan (a story for another time).  Anyway, he went on to explain how the Koreans bowed a certain way when doing such an ceremony with everyone going osu.  I had a bloody lip from bitting down on it trying to refrain from laughing out loud.  Way too many movies.



You've got to be kidding me...

Aeeesh...

&#48177;&#51064; &#49941;&#44592;...


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## dortiz (May 13, 2009)

Good grief!

I like to think that behind ceremony lies reason. As I explained traditions of respect can help build a school. At the same time those same habits would seem silly to a workout group I train with outside of a school setting. For each setting different needs or practices.
I always assumed you dont wash your belt so you dont turn your uniform every colour of the belt sytem.

The rest of this knowledge vanishment and special ceremony stuff just makes me laugh. Its the line between good foundations and fruitcakes.

Dave O.


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## Wasabinyc (May 13, 2009)

then I guess I'm on the team that don't believe in washing belts.  Washing uniforms on the other hand should be done after every training.  This is respect for your classmates and instructors!


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## dancingalone (May 13, 2009)

Wasabinyc said:


> then I guess I'm on the team that don't believe in washing belts.  Washing uniforms on the other hand should be done after every training.  This is respect for your classmates and instructors!



Why wouldn't you wash your belt if it gets dirty?  We do a lot of self-defense practice from a prone position in my school where someone else is on top.  You are bound to get sweat and sometimes blood on your obi.  Think about the germs and fungal infections that can get passed around.  Yuck.


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## dancingalone (May 13, 2009)

dortiz said:


> I always assumed you dont wash your belt so you dont turn your uniform every colour of the belt sytem.



I actually tell my students to wash their new belts (unless it's white) to avoid this very problem.  Sweat is very acidic and when you have a sweaty, white uniform combined with a new colored belt, the dye can often transfer from the belt to the gi.  You really run into this problem with the cheap belts; I've never seen a problem with the better made belts for dan holders.


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## Wasabinyc (May 13, 2009)

Well I would wash the uniform because it simply stinks not because of tradition or anyhting else.  My belt probably stinks too, but I guess no one really sniffs my belt.  If I got blood on it Id probably wash it or just keep it on there as a warning to others. LOL


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## Stac3y (May 13, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Why wouldn't you wash your belt if it gets dirty? We do a lot of self-defense practice from a prone position in my school where someone else is on top. You are bound to get sweat and sometimes blood on your obi. Think about the germs and fungal infections that can get passed around. Yuck.


 
Have you ever washed your belt? I've only seen a few that have been washed, and they came out about two thirds of the length they were before, and all weird and wrinkly-looking. Of course, that may have been the result of drying in a clothes dryer, rather than washing. In my school, we don't wash belts, but I always figured the "tradition" of it was just packaging for not wanting to have to replace shrunken belts all the time.

I have only had the misfortune of encountering a gi non-washer once. Ugh! I would never wear my gi twice without washing it; at the end of a class I look like I've taken a shower in it. If you can wear your gi twice without washing it, you're probably not working hard enough!


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## dancingalone (May 13, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Have you ever washed your belt? I've only seen a few that have been washed, and they came out about two thirds of the length they were before, and all weird and wrinkly-looking. Of course, that may have been the result of drying in a clothes dryer, rather than washing. In my school, we don't wash belts, but I always figured the "tradition" of it was just packaging for not wanting to have to replace shrunken belts all the time.



Yes, I have.  I just air dry it on my deck as I do with my gi.  The sun does a good job of bleaching out any smells or bacteria that may build up.

Tide + cold water + air dry = clean, odor free training uniforms.


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## miguksaram (May 14, 2009)

FYI...I spoke to a couple of the old gaurd Koreans who were around when it was "Korean Karate" and they still were referred to as Sabunim or Kwanjangnim...never Sensei.

One of them even told me a story of his student mistakeningly calling him Sensei once.  He looked at him and said "Do I look Japanese to you?" He said the student knew any answer he gave would have landed him in push up position. ha.haha.


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## miguksaram (May 14, 2009)

Wasabinyc said:


> Well I would wash the uniform because it simply stinks not because of tradition or anyhting else. My belt probably stinks too, but I guess no one really sniffs my belt. If I got blood on it Id probably wash it or just keep it on there as a warning to others. LOL


 
NEVER wash the blood out...The blood feeds the belt, makes it go stronger so your knowledge grows bigger...(Damn that was hard to type with a straight face:lfao


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## Stac3y (May 14, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Yes, I have. I just air dry it on my deck as I do with my gi. The sun does a good job of bleaching out any smells or bacteria that may build up.
> 
> Tide + cold water + air dry = clean, odor free training uniforms.


 
We have black gis, so sun drying would not be a good idea--the Texas sun bleaches _everything_. I hang mine to dry indoors, and I use Woolite for Dark Fabrics to wash them. It's much easier on the skin for those of us who have weird allergies (me) or eczema (my son). And it smells great. 

If I ever get a white gi (doubtful; black is slimming ), I'll have to try your sun-drying method.


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## dancingalone (May 14, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> If I ever get a white gi (doubtful; black is slimming ), I'll have to try your sun-drying method.





Your black uniform will fade anyway as you wash and wear it.  I have one I keep for outdoors training.  It's almost 10 years old and is definitely not jet black any longer.  It still looks nice though.

Good luck with your training!


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## Twin Fist (May 14, 2009)

black uniforms look BETTER when they fade to grey

and you have a better chanced of Seeing lucille Ball in a new sitcom than you do of seeing me or any student of mine washing thier belts.

somethings just aint right.


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## miguksaram (May 14, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> black uniforms look BETTER when they fade to grey
> 
> and you have a better chanced of Seeing lucille Ball in a new sitcom than you do of seeing me or any student of mine washing thier belts.
> 
> somethings just aint right.


 
Why isn't it right?  Or better question to ask, what is your reasoning for not washing it?


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## Twin Fist (May 14, 2009)

reasons why?
1) tradition, silly i know, but there you have it
2) faded out belts look sort of cool, but i can get a faded uniform by washing it over and over, if i want a faded belt, i have to work out some more....
3) I have never had a belt start to stink, so they have never needed washing...


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 14, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> How do you handle proper ediquette inside your school, do you have them bow in and out? Do they bow before entering the workout area? We still do but alot of people tell me this is to old school to do anymore and it is not proper in today era.


This is taekwondo, not a high school ball sport.  If they do not want to practice dojo etiquette, then they can just to the local boxing or wrestling gym, where the etiquette is more familiar to most westerners.  Dojo etiquette is a part of Asian martial arts.  Traditional western fencing salles have equally strict etiquette.  

At our school, the students bow in and out when stepping onto or off of the mat.  My students address me as 'Mister' Sullivan or sir.  GM Kim, Master Choi, and Master Disney are addressed as 'Master', sir or maam.  Junior students address senior students as sir or maam or Mister/Mrs./Miss followed by their last name.  Students of the the same level of seniority address eachother on a first name basis.

At the beginning of class, the students bow to the instructor and bow to the flags (US flag, Korean flag, and organization banners).  At the end of class, the students turn to the wall to adjust their doboks.  Then the flags are again bowed to, then the black belts, then the instructor.  The students and instructor all shake hands and say 'kansamhapnida' and then bow out when leaving the mat.

We are not supremely strict in this, but obvious disrespect or apathy will get you push ups.

Daniel


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 14, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Have you ever washed your belt? I've only seen a few that have been washed, and they came out about two thirds of the length they were before, and all weird and wrinkly-looking. Of course, that may have been the result of drying in a clothes dryer, rather than washing. In my school, we don't wash belts, but I always figured the "tradition" of it was just packaging for not wanting to have to replace shrunken belts all the time.
> 
> I have only had the misfortune of encountering a gi non-washer once. Ugh! I would never wear my gi twice without washing it; at the end of a class I look like I've taken a shower in it. If you can wear your gi twice without washing it, you're probably not working hard enough!


Gi is washed after each and every use and I have several, so I rotate and wash them consistently.  

Because belts have synthetics in them, they do not do well with the drier.  Like T/F, I have never had an issue with the belt getting dirty, thus I have never had it brave the washer.  As a kendo instructor, we generally do not wear our belts, so that one hardly has a chance to get dirty or fade.  

Daniel


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## Stac3y (May 14, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Your black uniform will fade anyway as you wash and wear it. I have one I keep for outdoors training. It's almost 10 years old and is definitely not jet black any longer. It still looks nice though.
> 
> Good luck with your training!


 
Overall fading isn't the problem; I do my best to minimize that by soaking each new gi (I wear them out fast, even the heavy weight ones) in vinegar and saltwater before the first wearing, which helps "set" the color. They all do fade, no matter what, but fairly evenly. When dried in sunlight, though, dark fabrics tend to get patches of more fading, depending on where the sunlight was most intense. I have dark sweaters that have white areas from being exposed to a spot of sunlight through a window, and since I'm a cheapskate, I don't want to risk that with an expensive gi. 

I wish you good luck, as well.


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## Stac3y (May 14, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> black uniforms look BETTER when they fade to grey
> 
> and you have a better chanced of Seeing lucille Ball in a new sitcom than you do of seeing me or any student of mine washing thier belts.
> 
> somethings just aint right.


 
I have to disagree about black gis fading to grey. I like my gis to match my hair, which is dyed black. Hey, I'm a chick. My ovaries tell me <teehee> that a jet black gi with jet black hair looks, well, more dramatic. My gear all matches, too, and my gi is always immaculately ironed when I go to a tournament. I love that I can be (in my friend's words) a Trophy-Winning *** Kicker and still be girly when I feel like it.

I don't wash my belt, either. Anybody sniffing my belt will be getting a face full of knee and won't care how it smells. And my tape stripes would fall off in the washer, anyway.


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## Errant108 (May 14, 2009)

miguksaram said:


> never wash the blood out...the blood feeds the belt, makes it go stronger so your knowledge grows bigger...(damn that was hard to type with a straight face:lfao



blood makes the grass grow! Kill! Kill! Kill!


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## Errant108 (May 14, 2009)

Our dojang is in a Buddhist temple, so things are a bit different.

You bow twice when you enter the hall, as a show of respect to the activities that take place there.

At the beginning and end of class we circle up & bow to each other.  As the instructor, I'm not singled out for special treatment.

We have no belts...so there's no issue as far as when to wash it or not.

We manage to keep a perfect level of respect without enforcing Confucianist hierarchies on everyone.  Non-Asian students usually address me by either my first name or my Dharma name, children add Mr.  The younger Korean girls tend to call me "oppa", which means big brother.

Side note:  This is not necessarily a good thing, since as Miguksaram can tell you, girlls calling you "Oppa" usually follow it with "I'm hungry." or "Buy me something pretty".

Since we don't follow the dan rank system, our dojang is organized like a family.  Older members are big brothers & sisters, younger members are little brothers & sisters.  I'm the eldest brother, my teacher, the headmonk, is like the father.


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## dancingalone (May 14, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Like T/F, I have never had an issue with the belt getting dirty, thus I have never had it brave the washer.  As a kendo instructor, we generally do not wear our belts, so that one hardly has a chance to get dirty or fade.
> 
> Daniel



That's cool, if it works for you and TF, Daniel.  Like I said, I teach a lot of self-defense from the kneeling or prone positions with paired partners.  In a scenario like that, transfer of sweat and blood can and does happen.  I can't imagine not cleaning one's obi when it is warranted.  If it never gets dirty, then great.  If it does, and you still don't wash it, I'd question your hygiene.  LOL.


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 14, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> That's cool, if it works for you and TF, Daniel. Like I said, I teach a lot of self-defense from the kneeling or prone positions with paired partners. In a scenario like that, transfer of sweat and blood can and does happen. I can't imagine not cleaning one's obi when it is warranted. If it never gets dirty, then great. If it does, and you still don't wash it, I'd question your hygiene. LOL.


In that circumstance, I would definitely wash it!  

When I spar in taekwondo, I generally remove my belt when the hogu goes on.  

Being a colored belt in hapkido, I have not kept any of my belts long enough for it to become an issue there as of yet.  Frequently, I catch the hapkido class back to back with my kendo class, so I often participate in my keikogi and hakama, looking much like an aikido student, and of course, am not wearing the belt.

Daniel


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## dancingalone (May 14, 2009)

Why don't you take off your hakama for the hapkido class?  You'd look less out of place that way.


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## miguksaram (May 14, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> reasons why?
> 1) tradition, silly i know, but there you have it
> 2) faded out belts look sort of cool, but i can get a faded uniform by washing it over and over, if i want a faded belt, i have to work out some more....
> 3) I have never had a belt start to stink, so they have never needed washing...


 
1) Understandable...I'm assuming it is your own teacher's tradition as it is not an Asian tradition. 
2) Cool reasoning
3) Understood

Everyone has their own way, which is cool.  I am just tired of hearing all the Samurai Sunday movie reasoning as the source of why.


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## miguksaram (May 14, 2009)

Errant108 said:


> Side note: This is not necessarily a good thing, since as Miguksaram can tell you, girlls calling you "Oppa" usually follow it with "I'm hungry." or "Buy me something pretty".


 
"Oppa!! Paegupayo!"
"Aigoo oppa!  Panji ipoda! Doan juseyo."

Ahhh how I remember those words all too well. ha.haha.


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## Errant108 (May 14, 2009)

miguksaram said:


> "Oppa!! Paegupayo!"
> "Aigoo oppa!  Panji ipoda! Doan juseyo."
> 
> Ahhh how I remember those words all too well. ha.haha.



Aeeesh....

You'll get a kick out of this.  It's my boy PK performing his parody of Enrique Iglesias "I Can Be Your Hero"...called "It Costs a Lot to be Your Oppa".


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## Errant108 (May 14, 2009)

Er....how do video embed?


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 14, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Why don't you take off your hakama for the hapkido class? You'd look less out of place that way.


What generally happens is that I come in early for kendo and am asked to join in more often than not.  I am then all warmed up for kendo and get my hapkido to boot.  

Daniel


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## miguksaram (May 15, 2009)

Errant108 said:


> Aeeesh....
> 
> You'll get a kick out of this. It's my boy PK performing his parody of Enrique Iglesias "I Can Be Your Hero"...called "It Costs a Lot to be Your Oppa".


 
That was hilarious....I the Uhma song was also funny...


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## Errant108 (May 15, 2009)

You should hear his "Ode to a KTown Girl".


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## karatemom (May 20, 2009)

I bow in and out (entering and exiting the floor).  We try to always bow out (entire class) to the instructor - we also try to bow at the begin of the class and say the tenents before stretches but not all of the instructors follow this routine.   Also all black belts are to be called Sir or Ma'am or Mr./Ms. lastname and you answer up "yes sir/maam!" to your instructor.


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## CDKJudoka (Jun 3, 2009)

We bow and vocalise "Tae kwon" coming into and leaving the dojang. We bow to yudnaja and use the titles, which we have for each rank it seems. We bow going onto and off of the mat. And we bow in the beginning of class and at the end.

1st Dan-Seung Sei Nim
2nd Dan- Bu Kyo Sa Nim
3rd Dan- Kyo Sa Nim
4th Dan- Bu Sa Bum Nim
5th Dan- Sa Bum Nim


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