# Why Do We Train in Bare Feet?



## elder999 (Oct 21, 2011)

So a while back in this thread,, I had a bit of a set-to with a young man who felt I disrespected him. That wasn&#8217;t my intention, though I have to admit that I was probably using him as the designated chew toy that day.I&#8217;d like to apologize for hurting his feelings, though not at all for what I said-though I will explain it, and perhaps offer a more measured, temperate answer.

First off, though, one has to ask: why do we train in bare feet? Most of us, most of the time, wear shoes. We should train in shoes. My students and I do-and more on that later-but we also train in bare feet.

_Why do we train in bare feet?_

Well, we train in bare feet because that's the way it's always been done...:lfao: 
(I *hate* that answer.)

Seriously, we train in bare feet because in Okinawa and Japan, it's customary to remove footwear when going inside. Period. End of story, mostly.....though I've always presented the idea that when you remove those shoes in the dojo vestibule, you're leaving your day's attitude, and your _outside_ attitude behind with them, and starting fresh for the day's training. In fact, I used to have a sign in that vestibule in my dojo, right over the shoe racks. You can find that sign here. :lfao: May have to put it back up.......

Training in bare feet also gives us an opportunity to develop muscles in the feet that otherwise are not used, and a level of sensitivity to the ground/floor that's harder to develop with footwear. As an instructor, it affords me the opportunity to observe that a student&#8217;s feet are correctly oriented for kicks: ball of foot for _mae geri_, ball of foot or instep for _mawashi geri_, edge of foot or heel for _yoko geri_, or correctly positioned on the ground-rear heel flat in front stance, toes pointed just so, etc. 

So, yeah, while I'll get back to the whole "shoes method of training" in a minute, we go bare foot because.......well, that's the way we've always done it.

In any case, most Japanese and Okinawan martial arts are practiced on wood floors, and calluses will develop over time. This is, for most of us, simply the best course of action for training: wait for the calluses, and doctor the feet in the meantime, with moleskin and tape for blisters. For the few students who have conditions that preclude their training in barefeet: diabetics, and others with possible peripheral circulatory problems, or those prone to infections for other reasons, there are a few options. In the few instances I've encountered, I've had students wear really cheap sneakers from WalMart, or these, which come in "real men's sizes," and have the advantage of being cheap, and looking sort of like the shoes Bruce Lee wore in "Enter the Dragon," so,silly as it may seem, they're aesthetically acceptable-_to me/_

In fact, I wear them *a lot*-to the gym, to drive, for shorter walks, because they're close to barefoot, and they're cheap and comfortable, and what others have posted elsewhere is true: shoes aren't really the best thing for our feet. 

Granted, we have to wear them, in a variety of situations: those of us who work in an industrial setting have to wear one kind of shoe, and those of us who work in law enforcement have to wear another, cross country skiing and snowshoeing require others, hiking, boating, golfing, running, etc., etc., etc. In the meantime, we're messing our feet up, and need to get as close to bare footed as often as possible. When I run, most of the time I use the Merrell Barefoot Trail Glove, because it ....well, because-unlike Nike- it comes in real men's sizes. :lfao:


But, you may ask, _shouldn&#8217;t we train in shoes if we *wear* shoes_? And my answer would be &#8220;yes.&#8221; In fact, given the way some infections like staph can get spread, training with shoes all the time might be considered more sanitary than bare feet. After my students have trained for a while, though, I kit them up with a &#8220;street clothes&#8221; workout set, and, if they&#8217;re cops or security people, a &#8220;training uniform,&#8221; complete with duty belt. Both kits come with _shoes_. While it&#8217;s not a stretch for most to figure out how to position their feet when kicking in shoes, there are adjustments that should be made depending upon the shoe, whether it&#8217;s a sneaker, steel-toed work boot, hiking shoe, or dress shoe; women students even learn to kick in (moderate) high heels.

Speaking of women students, my senior most "non-family" student, Barb (Barb *is* "family," now, but she's Greek-no relative :lfao: ), has two seven inch rods in her spine-she had severe curvature, scoliosis, in her youth, and the rods correct it. She has what I can only judge to be tremendous back pain, and learning to roll and fall was an effort for her-in fact, at some point, I&#8217;d have let her take a pass on them if she&#8217;d only asked. She never did-nor did she complain. I have made accommodations for her along the way, but she&#8217;s never shirked at just about anything.

Of course, at 53 now, she isn&#8217;t _really_ my &#8220;senior&#8221; most student-that honor actually belonged to a man who only trained with me for 3 years, Mr. Charles Sillivent. He was 86 when he started, and, as important as learning to fall is, it became clear pretty early on that too much of it wasn&#8217;t going to be good for him-accommodations were made for him,.

I had another woman student who&#8217;d been nastily brutalized by her ex-husband. She was an emotional wreck, and it took a lot to get her to even keep her eyes open when someone was acting as though they were going to strike her. It took a fair amount of patience on both of our parts, and will and desire on hers, to get her to train properly and actually enjoy it.

Me, I&#8217;ve mentioned elsewhere how sickly I was as a child: I wasn&#8217;t supposed to live to be 11, the age at which I began formal martial arts training. Looking back at those early years, when there were no children&#8217;s classes for the thin, frail, asthmatic, anemic _child_ that I was, I can&#8217;t help but think that accommodations were made, but I couldn&#8217;t say what they were-only that by the time I was 14, there really weren&#8217;t any, and I was giving most of the men at my rank a real run for their money. Later, in college, I worked with an Isshin ryu guy named Tony Schifano, who ran something called the Wheelchair Karate League (this was in the late 70&#8217;s and early 80&#8217;s, and if anyone knows what happened to Tony, I&#8217;d like to know!) Anyway, I wanted to learn to teach people with special needs, which he knew more than a little about, and I also got to ref for these _maniacs_ in wheelchairs and on crutches, amputees and paraplegics, going at it to about kill each other.

And , while I&#8217;ve never had a truly blind student, I have had a legally blind one-guy had to hold a page right against his face to read it. And I once lost a judo match to a blind guy from Florida&#8230;..:lfao:

Diabetes? Scoliosis with steel rods in the back? Wheelchairs, crutches, blindness? Old age? Emotional trauma? I've seen them all over the last 40 years. They can be serious impediments to training, and, if the desire&#8217;s really there, accommodations should be made.

_*Blisters?*_ I'e seen lots more of those, and, _accomodations?_Not so much&#8230;..


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## WC_lun (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm a Chinese stylist so I wear shoes.  It is much easier to explain why we wear shoes than why other systems don't wear shoes


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## Willard814 (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks for the post elder999! I totally understand the concept now and my hard work is paying off bare footed of course! :bangahead:


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## Cyriacus (Oct 21, 2011)

Willard814 said:


> Thanks for the post elder999! I totally understand the concept now and my hard work is paying off bare footed of course! :bangahead:



That Belt... How has the Color not faded more. With that kind of Age. Just. Wow.
I mean, ive seen old Belts. But thats seriously torn up!


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## elder999 (Oct 21, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> That Belt... How has the Color not faded more. With that kind of Age. Just. Wow.
> I mean, ive seen old Belts. But thats seriously torn up!



That's Tereyuki Okazaki. Okazaki sensei's only been training since he was 16 years old.......back in like *1945*. He's probably got several belts-and few that are too tattered to wear at all....:lol:

EDIT: Oh, and Willard? Given who you're standing next to, it's _*really* good that you skipped the Vibram Five Fingers...._


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## Blade96 (Oct 21, 2011)

wow congrats on the medals. and that's such a pretty bright yellow belt, I loved to wear mine when i ws still a yellow belt. 

On the sensei's belt, my sensei's one is like that. So worn it looks like he's a white belt. 

and maybe we train on bare feet cause we might slip and fall in socks doing some of those leaps, turns and spinnie things we do in kata?


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2011)

The opinion of a newbie:

Why don't we wear gloves all the time?  Unless you're Ernst Stavro Blofeld or Elijah Price, most of us wear gloves when we must; our preference is to use our bare hands for most functions.  Why don't we go barefoot more often, then?  Because most of us who do not train in the martial arts do not require the same level of dexterity, control, sensitivity, and feedback from our feet as we do from our hands.  But martial artists do.  So, therefore, we train our feet as a person training to paint portraits would train their hands and fingers.  I cannot imagine being instructed in the use of the 'toe-rip kick' practiced by Tatsuo Shimabuku Soke in shoes.  Once learned bare-footed, perhaps.

As well, it is far easier for me to develop the level of control I need to hit my uke with force, but without damaging them, while barefooted; due primarily to the physics of having more weight added to the end of an object in motion through lever-action.  I've tried to snap-kick a mae-geri with a shod foot and while I grasp the concept that over time I would build up the muscles in my knees needed to snap back that added several pounds of weight on the end of my foot, it's not really of any value to me to do so.  In the dojo, I want to practice control.  In self-defense, hell, I'm going to give them everything I've got; I hope my foot stops traveling somewhere around their xiphoid process; it will snap back when it can go no further forward, not when I will it so.

Practice with shod feet?  Yes.  But it makes it far more difficult to practice kicking air or an uke; one almost must have a kicking dummy to avoid injury or developing muscles that are not needed in self-defense and risking damage to the knees along the way.

But I prefer being barefoot in the dojo and I'm glad we do it that way.  I don't think it is just down to tradition.


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## Carol (Oct 21, 2011)

I *love* training in bare feet.  I find it to be cathartic in a way.   I miss it!


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## mook jong man (Oct 21, 2011)

I like to train in these , they afford all the comfort of a shoe , yet still retain that sense of Dojo tradition.


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## Steve (Oct 21, 2011)

Well, this thread has gotten strange.  

If you're looking for DOJO/Mat shoes only, and just want some light protection, I recommend taking a look at sambo shoes.  They are typically a soft leather or suede upper, similar in design to a wrestling shoe.  What makes them different is that the sole is also soft, usually suede... along the lines of a soft moccasin.  

While they aren't incredibly durable, making them so would also make them less suitable for training, they are also not all that expensive.   

I googled sambo shoes and came up with several in the $25 range.  

http://www.ambersports.com/samboshoes.htm

They're particularly good for grappling, because they protect toes from getting broken, they don't offer a hard sole that will invite heel hooks and toe holds, like a wrestling shoe will.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Well, this thread has gotten strange.
> 
> If you're looking for DOJO/Mat shoes only, and just want some light protection, I recommend taking a look at sambo shoes.  They are typically a soft leather or suede upper, similar in design to a wrestling shoe.  What makes them different is that the sole is also soft, usually suede... along the lines of a soft moccasin.
> 
> ...



It's not a matter of protection or suppleness; it's weight.  You *cannot* do a toe-rip kick in shoes of any description, that I can imagine.  But then, I'm practicing a martial art, not rolling around on the ground like a pillbug.  So it may be different for you.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2011)

I don't get it....Just how the heck do you train in bear feet....and why would you want to...


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## JohnEdward (Oct 21, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Seriously, we train in bare feet because in Okinawa and Japan, it's customary to remove footwear when going inside.
> 
> Training in bare feet also gives us an opportunity to develop muscles in the feet that otherwise are not used, and a level of sensitivity to the ground/floor that's harder to develop with footwear. As an instructor, it affords me the opportunity to observe that a student&#8217;s feet are correctly oriented for kicks: ball of foot for _mae geri_, ball of foot or instep for _mawashi geri_, edge of foot or heel for _yoko geri_, or correctly positioned on the ground-rear heel flat in front stance, toes pointed just so, etc.



In accordance with the above, it is sad that part of martial arts, just not karate is lost, or held as a training secret.  From sword to open hand I don't know the exact point in time the barefoot trend became the standard. May it happened with the advent of the dojo. Of what I understand for example martial training of the samurai was outside and not done barefooted. It is my theory, that upon the creation the institute of where the structured teaching of martial arts, instituted the dojo and thus the barefoot training. Based on the cultural practice transferred to the dojo of removing your zori or geta  (not shoes, straw sandals or wooden block levitated sandal) upon entering a residence was for the purpose of cleanliness (mud mainly, but includes dry soil) that started in the the Heian period among the upper classes that spread to all other classes thus, becoming a strong identifiable cultural tradition.  

As a result, being barefoot had little bearing or impedance on maintaining balance which is paramount to any Japanese martial art, when in conflict with zori. Probably, being bare foot in training was an impedance in terms of wearing geta, be demanding on the balance that enhanced technical skill. Some historians point to geta being a valued training apparatus  used by samurai to enhance their skill. In my dojo we would train in geta at times. It was a pain. But, it did exercise your awareness of your balance. Therefore, the benefits of training in zori or geta where out weighted by cultural practice(s). 

Walking in sandals or even geta if your brave and don't mind the noise or the stares (at least in the US) really develops the feet as an instrument of balance and position/stance/base strength. To lose your balance in old Japan during a conflict was an error rewarded by an instant steel forged death. Balanced was crucial. The action your feet take to maintain the zori or geta to keep them from losing them when you step is the same desired action to maintain your balance, hold you steady and firm in kata. 

My thought is actually, barefoot training is subordinate to training in zori or geta, and outside (uneven non uniform surface like the ground develops balance) was favorable, but lost to the strong cultural practice of removing zori or geta upon entering a residence for the purpose of not soiling the tatami, whose composition of materials and design were difficult to clean especially ground in mud and soil, especially during the Heian period.  Hardwood floors where easier to clean of course, but not all dojos or residences where exclusively hardwood floors. 

It boils down to many things done Japanese, it is out of a practical tradition for which each such tradition has its reason.
_
** please note shoes are not Japanese footwear became an acceptable footwear of the Japanese about 70 years ago.  Training in shoes say in karate is difficult and does apply or considered in my comment.*_


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## clfsean (Oct 21, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You *cannot* do a toe-rip kick in shoes of any description, that I can imagine.



A what?? Not familiar with this description of a kick...


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## elder999 (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Well, this thread has gotten strange.
> 
> If you're looking for DOJO/Mat shoes only, and just want some light protection, I recommend taking a look at sambo shoes. They are typically a soft leather or suede upper, similar in design to a wrestling shoe. What makes them different is that the sole is also soft, usually suede... along the lines of a soft moccasin..



Like sambo shoes, but until recemtly, they didn't come in real men's sizes (and are more expensive in size 15 at that).....which is odd, considering the size of some Russian fellas......:lfao:

@ Bill Mattocks: at brown belt, your no longer a "newbie," or, at least, your not much of one-that brown belt kind of means you'll probably stick around.....and "toe rip" kicks are pretty fairly confined to  Isshin ryu, and maybe a few other Okinawan styles like uchinadi-I don't know for sure.It *is* part of your tradition, though, so, again, that's what it comes down to. 

In any case, it's a safe bet that when it comes time to put down that protester for blocking your bank entrance, you'll be wearing shoes....:lfao: (Also, if you're been around a while, and the shoe is like a sneaker-no more-kicking an uke isn't too much worse than barefoot, unless it's in the face-that's icky.)


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2011)

JohnEdward said:


> It boils down to many things done Japanese, it is out of a practical tradition for which each such tradition has its reason.
> _
> ** please note shoes are not Japanese footwear became an acceptable footwear of the Japanese about 70 years ago.  Training in shoes say in karate is difficult and does apply or considered in my comment.*_



http://karatejutsu.blogspot.com/2008/02/barefoot-okinawans-and-stone-structures.html



> The other thing that I noticed was that just about all of the common people were barefoot -- not just the children, everyone. Of course, for formal photos where the visitor to Okinawa was wearing a suit, the Okinawans tended to be better dressed and wore shoes or slippers. But in the candid photos, the people on the roads and in the villages were all barefoot.
> 
> I mentioned this to my mother, who was born and raised in Fukuoka, on the Island of Kyushu. She said that as a child, she always wore shoes (she went to a Catholic school). But during the war, all the children went barefoot. This was to show support for the soldiers who were fighting in the war. The public had to make sacrifices.
> 
> But in Okinawa, it seemed that going shoeless was more a factor of poverty. We often hear that the ground in Okinawa is very rocky. I noticed this during my two visits. Despite the rocky terrain, the people wore no shoes. They must have developed very strong feet and toes!


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## JohnEdward (Oct 21, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> http://karatejutsu.blogspot.com/2008/02/barefoot-okinawans-and-stone-structures.html



Bill your right, that is something I struggled with writing my comment. The southern islands for centuries where not considered Japanese people or Japan. Therefore, obviously not having the same culture, customs, practice, economy or wealth viewed foot wear differently. Just as say the far north territory of Hokkaido- also at a time not considered Japan, etc. But the commonality of the fact you didn't practice with dirty feet unless it was dirt dojo floor, the shintoism associated with the dojo, etc. that have become universal practices through out Japan filtered both north and south, by design or default was enough to make a generalization for the sake of brevity. Am glad you pointed that out providing greater detail, of the generalization I made. Great article also.


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## Steve (Oct 21, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It's not a matter of protection or suppleness; it's weight.  You *cannot* do a toe-rip kick in shoes of any description, that I can imagine.  But then, I'm practicing a martial art, not rolling around on the ground like a pillbug.  So it may be different for you.


I sincerely hope this was meant to be tongue in cheek.


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## Steve (Oct 21, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Like sambo shoes, but until recemtly, they didn't come in real men's sizes (and are more expensive in size 15 at that).....which is odd, considering the size of some Russian fellas......:lfao:


There's a guy locally who makes them.  I have never bought from him, but I know guys who have and they're good quality.  The guy I'm thinking of trains with Gracie Barra now, but he's a giant.  I suspect that you can find them without too much problem.  I think he paid about $40 per pair, but his toes were like fingers, and he kept breaking them, even when using tape.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2011)

clfsean said:


> A what?? Not familiar with this description of a kick...



I'll 2nd that....what the heck is a toe-rip kick


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## Steve (Oct 21, 2011)

I looked it up on YouTube.  Toe Rip Kick is at :28 seconds


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I looked it up on YouTube.  Toe Rip Kick is at :28 seconds



ok..... what is it suppose to accomplish


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> I sincerely hope this was meant to be tongue in cheek.



:angel:


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2011)

OK I used some Webfu...or in the case of this thread webdo and found this and also found that apparently it can be modified for someone wearing shoes (Boots) 



> Toe Rip Kick is another kick perfected by Tatsuo Shimabuku, as the opponent grabs the defender by the arms, clothing. The defender grabs under the attackers fore arms rising their right foot and curling the toes down thrusting the toes into the opponents groin. The US Marines that train with Shimabuku stated that they did not go bare foot so it was modified as a thrust kick with boots into groin.


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> ok..... what is it suppose to accomplish



It's hard to see in that video.  The toe-rip kick was originally in several Isshin-Ryu katas and is still optionally practiced in Sunsu kata.  The idea is that it enters into the top ridge of muscle above the hara and tears down into the groin area.  It does not enter in and up, as a front snap kick, or in and back, as a heel thrust kick.  It enters slightly under the ridge of muscle and tears downwards.  If practiced as part of Sunsu, it is the only traditional Isshin-Ryu kick that goes above the obi by design (many of the other kicks *can* be delivered above the obi, but they don't *have* to be).

As described to me (and I cannot yet do it properly), the toe-rip kick requires the karateka to curl his toes up at the first joint and then down at the second joint.  This leaves the toes in a position not unlike a 'tiger claw' if done by the hand.  I am told that when people walk around in sandals all day, they develop muscles that make this considerably easier to do.  Imagine a tiger claw to the face, ripping downward (we don't have a tiger claw, but you get the idea) and then apply that to the foot, and done on the length of the hara area of musculature in the abdomen to the groin.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2011)

Why not just wear these and do the kick.... it would be easier on the toes


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## clfsean (Oct 21, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Why not just wear these and do the kick.... it would be easier on the toes



Toe rip win... 

But I kick with my toes anyway. I always wear shoes (except for obvious times) so I let my shoes hand the hard stuff & the toes direct where to go.

Think about thowing a punch with a phoenix eye fist except with the toes.

First came across this idea in the Bujinkan. Never have let it go & always modify it to go with me where ever.


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## JohnEdward (Oct 21, 2011)

opps...:dalek:


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## JohnEdward (Oct 21, 2011)

Thanks to Bill going of his info here is Sunsu kata demonstrated by Tatsuo Shimabuku sensei watch for the kick at :46 for those like me.


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## Steve (Oct 21, 2011)

JohnEdward said:


> Isn't it at :36 in that area, and the demonstrator is using the modification of using the heel to kick done with shoes on? Help me out here.


LOL...  don't ask me.  I'm just going by what the guy in the video said.  At :28 seconds, he says, "Toe Rip Kick" and then he does some wackiness with his right leg.


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## clfsean (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> LOL...  don't ask me.  I'm just going by what the guy in the video said.  At :28 seconds, he says, "Toe Rip Kick" and then he does some wackiness with his right leg.



He does both... he says toe rip & then does a stomp variation. Both have been mentioned here.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 21, 2011)

Personally I have had a couple of long conversations with a friend who really only trains in shoes.  My take is that you should train both ways so that you are accustomed to having shoes on and also with them off.  Most people wear shoes on a daily basis so you really need to have experience with them in your training.  While some people where them in the house other people do not.  Yet, even the people who wear them in the house I am betting that they do not wear their shoes to bed.  So with that in mind there is a chance you may not have shoes on if someone breaks into your home and you may then be fighting for your life bare foot.  So I think it is pretty simple that you should train both with shoes and without!


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## Thesemindz (Oct 21, 2011)

I train barefoot because I enjoy it. I'm a fan of barefoot locomotion in general, including barefoot walking and running (although I'm not a runner at all). I like to feel my foot grip the ground and I like the increased sensitivity and stability I get from being barefoot as opposed to wearing foot coffins. And it makes me feel connected to an older, more rustic, more traditional style of training, which I personally enjoy. I still train in shoes, and boots, and sandals. I pretty much train in any clothing I might be wearing on even a semi-regular basis. Just in case. And also because I can't stop myself from doing at least a little karate, even when I'm not dressed for it and it isn't environmentally appropriate. But mostly, I like to train barefoot. And I don't like it when my training partners step on my bare foot with their rubber soled shoes. I let my students wear whatever they want, so long as they are clean, but I encourage them to train barefoot as well. It allows you to see the feet and focus on the proper form of your basics, which I believe is important. Ultimately, is it necessary? I don't think so. But I think there're some good reasons to do it, and I enjoy it, so it's the decision I've made for me.


-Rob


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## elder999 (Oct 21, 2011)

And, to bring things full circle here, one of Okazaki sensei's teachers was Masatoshi Nakayama (the other principle one being Funakoshi himself). 

Nakayama sensei wrote a few really neat little books on using karate for self defense, back in the late 50's and early 60's, that covered fighting in western clothing, with a chapter (somewhere) on kicking in western shoes.I'm thinking of the "Practical Karate" series he co-wrote with Donn Draeger, but all I could find was this:






EDIT: Here we go:


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## JohnEdward (Oct 21, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> LOL...  don't ask me.  I'm just going by what the guy in the video said.  At :28 seconds, he says, "Toe Rip Kick" and then he does some wackiness with his right leg.



Oh my there is a sensei rolling in his grave over that video isn't there? :lol:


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## Victor Smith (Oct 22, 2011)

The use of the term 'Toe Rip Kick' for that motion in the Isshinryu SunNuSu (Sunsu) Kata is not a universal descriptive term but does explain part of it's possible usage.  

It is not necessarily unique to Isshinryu 



Hiagonna Morio shows a similar kick at 1:50 in his 'bunkai' for Sesan kata.  The leg movement is also partially related to the front leg front kick/stomp found in Tou'on Ryu, but with a different targeting.

Unfortunately too many view kicking as a steady state of kicks and haven't had the exposure to the depth of potential there simply because the destructive use of original kicking is ignored. 

Watching the paucity of the Shimabuku Tatsuo video record you find something interesting, how his kicks are first fully chambered before they are delivered.  The older standard for Okinawan kicking was the kicks were delivered at the same distance you'd strike someone.  The exacting old-style chamber made your kicks much harder to block, and if things got to close became a knee strike to open your opponent up.

What was worn for kicking was a value of the culture the art arose in.  Originally there were no Okinawan dojo, or uniforms. Practice conducted in secret, you'd remove your outer clothing to protect them.  Karate was developed for the Peruchin class, not the common person. You'd likely remove any footware to protect it as well as necessity for if you wore sandals they'd be an inhibitor for training.

As the initial value of training is just that, it's better for most to do so bare foot, to strengthen the foot correctly. But age, illness, etc. often require changes.  To fully use the foot requires a wider range of conditioning than even the makiwawa might provide.

In Isshinryu the entire system of kicking can be done with shoes of any sort, but it takes time to understand how things might be modified for the footwear. Light flexible shoes provide some advantages but are unnecessary in the depth of study.

Of course 'real-men' study Uechi, with their toe tip kicking done bare foot, and spend time kicking tires to develop their power.  Of course the issue isn't you have to do it that way, but to know who does to not let them kick you.

For myself I trained in many arts including Tam Tuie.  They use toe tip kicks but with shoes, and the kicks are often delivered toe nail or ankle or lower shin height (depending on the Tam Tuie system and there are many).

The more the merrier, and let the kick rip away!


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## RobinTKD (Oct 22, 2011)

A lot of people train in shoes at my TKD class, i personally don't, but years of running (and running barefoot) have built some nice callouses that stop me from getting blisters. Also, my choice of shoes always depends on how much movement i can get with my foot inside, if the shoe is too stiff i'll walk away, it's the same with jeans, if they don't allow me to comfortable stretch a legs 90 degrees apart, then i won't buy them either, same with shirts being too restrictive. Personally, i train in barefoot for more or less the same reason i punch a makiwara, conditioning, my feet are already well conditioned on the bottom, but when striking the 'man pads' (as we call them) I'm also conditioning my instep, heel/foot sword etc. My feet can take a lot of punishment now, to the point where walking across my gravel drive back to my house is actually pretty comfortable barefoot.


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## andy.m (Oct 22, 2011)

> I like to train in these , they afford all the comfort of a shoe , yet still retain that sense of Dojo tradition.




mook jung man, I want some shoes like those, where'd you get them from - Ed Gein ?
(with suitable apologies for my sick sense of humor)
Andy :uhyeah:


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## lma (Oct 24, 2011)

I have been thinking about introducing shoes to some of our sessions. I know myself the first couple times you kick with heavy shoes on it almost takes you foot of as your not used to it ! Also in real life your attacked in alleyway you cant ask them to take there shoes off or wait while you take yours off(though they may think your so barmy the will leave you alone!) 

I was wandering if any one training Shotokan has issue with pulling the toes back with shoes on? I imagine even if you can not with shoes on it would not matter as the shoes will protect you from injury .


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 24, 2011)

These guys train in Bear feet too


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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 24, 2011)

lma said:


> I have been thinking about introducing shoes to some of our sessions. I know myself the first couple times you kick with heavy shoes on it almost takes you foot of as your not used to it ! Also in real life your attacked in alleyway you cant ask them to take there shoes off or wait while you take yours off(though they may think your so barmy the will leave you alone!)
> 
> I was wandering if any one training Shotokan has issue with pulling the toes back with shoes on? I imagine even if you can not with shoes on it would not matter as the shoes will protect you from injury .



Billy Jack always took his boots off!

[video=youtube_share;v325wdgoFH4]http://youtu.be/v325wdgoFH4[/video]


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## mook jong man (Oct 24, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> These guys train in Bear feet too


Monkey steals the peach.


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## Victor Smith (Oct 25, 2011)

In the state of Massachusetts it is illegal to strike someone with the shod foot, I've seen reports where that charge is added to other charges in an altercation. Billy Jack was just showing the way.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 25, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> Monkey steals the peach.



pssst...thier bears...not monkeys 




Victor Smith said:


> In the state of Massachusetts it is illegal to strike someone with the shod foot, I've seen reports where that charge is added to other charges in an altercation. Billy Jack was just showing the way.



 No worries... I was not planning on having a blacksmith nail a horseshoe onto my foot just to kick someon


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## mook jong man (Oct 25, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> pssst...thier bears...not monkeys



Ok , bear steals the mango. :ultracool


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## JohnEdward (Oct 25, 2011)

Chuck Norris kept his Cowboy boots on.. :lol:

_"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand [barefoot]ready to do violence on their behalf."_ - George Orwell


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## Buka (Oct 25, 2011)

JohnEdward said:


> Chuck Norris kept his Cowboy boots on..
> 
> _"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand [barefoot]ready to do violence on their behalf."_ - George Orwell




My buddy, Chip Wright, one of Chuck's long time students, did that stunt.


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## JohnEdward (Oct 25, 2011)

The director forgot to have Chip wear Cowboy boots... com'on how are you going to break car windshield glass in those soft soled Century Martial Arts shoe, ya might as well be barefoot....:lol:


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## Grenadier (Oct 26, 2011)

elder999 said:


> Training in bare feet also gives us an opportunity to develop muscles in the feet that otherwise are not used, and a level of sensitivity to the ground/floor that's harder to develop with footwear. As an instructor, it affords me the opportunity to observe that a students feet are correctly oriented for kicks: ball of foot for _mae geri_, ball of foot or instep for _mawashi geri_, edge of foot or heel for _yoko geri_, or correctly positioned on the ground-rear heel flat in front stance, toes pointed just so, etc.



In addition to this, developing those muscles really helps improve one's sense of balance, whether he is using bare feet or wearing shoes.  

It's not unusual for a new student, who has never trained in bare feet before, struggle with balance, even when lifting one foot (such as when learning how to do his first front kick).  Over a period of 2-3 months, those muscles dramatically strengthen, and the wobbling becomes less noticeable.  This is something that can benefit almost anyone, both inside and outside the dojo.  Now, instead of relying on just a few muscles in the foot to maintain proper balance while walking, there are many more muscles available to help out.  

There are, however, cases where I understand that some folks must keep their feet covered up.  I've seen some truly decrepit schools, where the floor surface was moldy carpet, and that they would need to train in athletic shoes to avoid some nasty fungual infections...  I'd imagine that they'd make athlete's foot look like a Sunday picnic...


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## oftheherd1 (Oct 26, 2011)

You guys are weird! What makes you think you have to be ready to fight in shoes? Didn't you ever watch Billy Jack? :uhyeah:


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## lma (Oct 26, 2011)

oftheherd1 said:


> You guys are weird! What makes you think you have to be ready to fight in shoes? Didn't you ever watch Billy Jack? :uhyeah:



Without being rude ...... 

See the previous page someone bet you to it ! Bet you thought that was a right good joke to lol.


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## Zero (Oct 27, 2011)

Just take it easy if you are going to give training or sparring with friends a go after only training bare foot.  Years back but when I had developed good control (at least barefoot!) I was sparring at home with a friend (also went to same karate club) in normal clothes/shoes and executed a quick front kick to side of his head.  If barefoot would have been the knuckles of the foot (not ball of foot (but end result in shoes possibly same)) striking jaw - controlled of course.  I had trained in sneakers a lot kicking against trees while in the woods but not in boots/hard shoes. Having never done this before in solid leather shoes, I did not realise/appreicate that your foot is held in a much more rigid state.  The hard toe end of my shoe went straight into best friend's jaw and almost knocked him out!  Lucky still using control but expected foot to stop about an inch shorter! Lucky my mate kept all his teeth (and still a good mate).  We laughed about it later, as you do!!

That said, from then on I definitely appreciated that if you are a good kicker, how devastating kicks in boots/shoes could be.  If someone was experienced in kicking wearing boots you would not want to receive a steel cap to the head, or anywhere actually, from them.


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