# New car shopping: compact, premium, fun-to-drive, $30k



## Mitlov (Sep 5, 2020)

Hey all, the Civic Si that I've been driving for ten years is getting long in the tooth and not holding together particularly well anymore.  Next year for my birthday I'm gonna get myself a new car.  I'm looking for a C-segment car (compact by US terminology, midsize by UK terminology).  I want a definite step up in interior quality and refinement from my Si, but I don't care either way about brand prestige.  I want something that's fun-to-drive instead of just a transportation appliance, but it's not like I'm going to autocross it or anything.  And I'm looking to spend about US$30k.

I have three options that are springing out to me right now, but I'd also like input from others on these three or other options.

Option 1: Mazda3 hatchback 6MT.  The current-generation Mazda3 is a definite step above Honda/Toyota/Ford in interior quality, and I personally love the controversial looks.  And I can afford it brand new, fully-loaded (it comes in about $28k).







Option 2: Audi A3 nearly-new.  I know it's just a Golf with a good interior...but that honestly sounds like a good thing.  New and typically equipped, it comes in at more than I want to spend.  But a base-model (180hp turbo four, dual-clutch, FWD, heated leather seats) that a dealership is selling after one year of being a dealer loaner car comes in at just under $30k.






Option 3: Hyundai Ioniq Touring.  Fully-loaded, the interior is nicer than say a comparably-equipped Hyundai Elantra, but it's admittedly a step behind the Mazda and Audi options.  On the other hand, the fuel economy is incredible, the smartphone integration is second to none, and the dual-clutch transmission and agile chassis means it's decidedly more fun-to-drive than other hybrids like the Prius.  Comes in at slightly over $30k fully-loaded, but the fuel savings would offset that.






Thoughts on these, or anything else I should make sure to look at given my criteria?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 5, 2020)

I'm quite please with my Honda FIT sport. I drove it from Texas to California back and forth every year for the past 10 years.


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## Steve (Sep 5, 2020)

Ford Focus ST - fun and sporty. And a great value. Right in your price range.


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## Mitlov (Sep 5, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I'm quite please with my Honda FIT sport. I drove it from Texas to California back and forth every year for the past 10 years.



I currently drive a Civic Si, and I'm looking for a step up in refinement, not a step down like from the Civic to the Fit.



Steve said:


> Ford Focus ST - fun and sporty. And a great value. Right in your price range.



Unfortunately Ford is no longer selling the Focus in the USA, as part of their "SUVs and trucks and Mustangs only" move.  I also am a little suspicious of Ford interior quality.


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## Steve (Sep 5, 2020)

Mitlov said:


> I currently drive a Civic Si, and I'm looking for a step up in refinement, not a step down like from the Civic to the Fit.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately Ford is no longer selling the Focus in the USA, as part of their "SUVs and trucks and Mustangs only" move.  I also am a little suspicious of Ford interior quality.


Bummer.  I hadn't heard that.  The Focus and the Fiesta were great little cars.  Edit:  Looks like it had to do with the automatic transmission.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 5, 2020)

Mitlov said:


> I currently drive a Civic Si, and I'm looking for a step up in refinement, not a step down like from the Civic to the Fit.


I also have a Mini Countryman that I like. It has more power than the Honda Fit, but I don't like it requires premium gasoline.


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## granfire (Sep 6, 2020)

the ones you have listed...hmm
I think it's a tossup between the Audi and the Hyundai. 
Personally speaking, I want a Nissan Altima. but that is well below your search category.


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## JR 137 (Sep 6, 2020)

I’ll never buy a car brand new. Way too much of a financial hit, and you get so much more car for your money buying used. I look for something 2-3 years old with around 30k miles or less, and certified used. Quite often the certified used cars have a longer warranty than new ones.

In February I bought my wife a 2016 Toyota Highlander. Yes it was 4 years old, but barely. 31k miles. Warranty for the balance of 100k miles and/or 10 years. Brand new price was almost $36k, I paid $23,500. I don’t know of any comparable sized and speced suv I could’ve bought for around $24k brand new.

Hyundais are very enticing for the money. As the son of a mechanic and someone who knows several people who’ve owned them (including my wife), stay away. Notably more expensive and higher maintenance than the Japanese cars, far less reliable medium and especially long term as well.


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## dvcochran (Sep 6, 2020)

My wife drives a Toyota Camry hybrid. I have been very impressed with it. We have made some long trips and it is extremely comfortable. My only knock would be that it has leather seats and I hate the feel of leather. Doesn't breathe at all.


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## Steve (Sep 6, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll never buy a car brand new. Way too much of a financial hit, and you get so much more car for your money buying used. I look for something 2-3 years old with around 30k miles or less, and certified used. Quite often the certified used cars have a longer warranty than new ones.
> 
> In February I bought my wife a 2016 Toyota Highlander. Yes it was 4 years old, but barely. 31k miles. Warranty for the balance of 100k miles and/or 10 years. Brand new price was almost $36k, I paid $23,500. I don’t know of any comparable sized and speced suv I could’ve bought for around $24k brand new.
> 
> Hyundais are very enticing for the money. As the son of a mechanic and someone who knows several people who’ve owned them (including my wife), stay away. Notably more expensive and higher maintenance than the Japanese cars, far less reliable medium and especially long term as well.


Agreed   3 years old is perfect, because you're usually getting a well cared for, low mileage lease return.


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## Mitlov (Sep 6, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll never buy a car brand new. Way too much of a financial hit, and you get so much more car for your money buying used. I look for something 2-3 years old with around 30k miles or less, and certified used. Quite often the certified used cars have a longer warranty than new ones.



Other message boards are saying the same thing. And a 2-3 year old Audi A4 checks all the boxes of what I'm looking for (from handling to interior materials to reasonable fuel economy even with Quattro), it's easy to find used in good condition for $30k, and has superb Consumer Reports ratings.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 6, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll never buy a car brand new.


I used to think that way. One day I just realize that I only live once. I should treat myself a bit nicer. A new car can give me a safe feeling for many years. That kind of feeling even money cannot buy it.


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## JR 137 (Sep 6, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I used to think that way. One day I just realize that I only live once. I should treat myself a bit nicer. A new car can give me a safe feeling for many years. That kind of feeling even money cannot buy it.


Everyone has to do whatever makes them happy. For me, it’s not about “not treating myself nicer.” It’s the opposite, actually. For the approximately $24k I spent on my wife’s Highlander, nothing brand new was nearly as good.

As Miltov (OP) was saying, $30k for a brand new Audi A3 or a 2-3 year old A4 with low mileage for the same money. I’d take the right pre-owned A4 over a new A3 any day and be much happier, but that’s just me.

Me, I’ve got quite a while before I’m car shopping. Hopefully anyway. I got a 2007 Volvo S40 a few months back. My father bought it from a long time customer of his and did some repairs. I gave my father what he had invested into it. 59,000 miles on a 2007 is practically unheard of. 5 cylinder turbo, all wheel drive, 6 speed manual transmission. Fully loaded. I love that car. I’ve wanted a small, fast, fun and dependable car back since I bought my 2006 Highlander when we found out we were having our first daughter. That Highlander was also 3 years old, 30k miles, certified used, and a good $15k less than the sticker price.

Buying 2-3 years old with low mileage and factory warranty gets you far more for your money. If you’ve got a specific budget, go used. If you really want a specific car and can afford it brand new, that’s another thing I guess.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 6, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’d take the right pre-owned A4 over a new A3 any day and be much happier, but that’s just me.


Why would anybody want to sell his 3 years old car? How do you know that nobody was killed in that car? 

Someone told me that he bought a used car. Sometime he could see a person sat in the back seat through his mirror. But when he turned his head around, the back seat was empty. That car always had bad smell. Later on he found out that someone committed suicide in that car. When people found out the dead body, the body was already rotten in that car.


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## JR 137 (Sep 6, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Why would anybody want to sell his 3 years old car? How do you know that nobody was killed in that car?
> 
> Someone told me that he bought a used car. Sometime he could see a person sat in the back seat through his mirror. But when he turned his head around, the back seat was empty. That car always had bad smell. Later on he found out that someone committed suicide in that car. When people found out the dead body, the body was already rotten in that car.


People lease cars for a few years. The returned cars get sold. Or people trade their car in for the newest model. Happens all the time. Most used cars on dealer lots are former lease vehicles.

As far as the rest of your post... yeah... I just don’t know what to say...


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## Mitlov (Sep 7, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Why would anybody want to sell his 3 years old car? How do you know that nobody was killed in that car?
> 
> Someone told me that he bought a used car. Sometime he could see a person sat in the back seat through his mirror. But when he turned his head around, the back seat was empty. That car always had bad smell. Later on he found out that someone committed suicide in that car. When people found out the dead body, the body was already rotten in that car.



The market is FULL of three-year-old luxury cars.  Probably the majority of new luxury cars are leased, not purchased, and a lease is traditionally three years, which means that there are a TON of three-year-old cars on the market.

Saying "I won't buy used because maybe there was a dead body in here" is extraordinary specific and unlikely.


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## dvcochran (Sep 7, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’ll never buy a car brand new. Way too much of a financial hit, and you get so much more car for your money buying used. I look for something 2-3 years old with around 30k miles or less, and certified used. Quite often the certified used cars have a longer warranty than new ones.
> 
> In February I bought my wife a 2016 Toyota Highlander. Yes it was 4 years old, but barely. 31k miles. Warranty for the balance of 100k miles and/or 10 years. Brand new price was almost $36k, I paid $23,500. I don’t know of any comparable sized and speced suv I could’ve bought for around $24k brand new.
> 
> Hyundais are very enticing for the money. As the son of a mechanic and someone who knows several people who’ve owned them (including my wife), stay away. Notably more expensive and higher maintenance than the Japanese cars, far less reliable medium and especially long term as well.


The reason I buy new service trucks is for the warranty and ease of having a replacement if one goes down. Our local Ford and Dodge dealers have a good service truck program and keep utility body loaners on hand. Loaners are part of the negotiated deal for the life of the trucks so a good insurance policy to have in a situation where the truck(s) are a money maker for you. I have little problem with Chevy/GMC but our dealer is not that great. 

My favorite truck that I own and the one I drive the most is my '99 F250 with 330,000 miles on it. Butt ugly but I love that old truck. 
My wife is about due for a new ride and we likely will buy used car 1-2 years old as well.


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## JR 137 (Sep 7, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The reason I buy new service trucks is for the warranty and ease of having a replacement if one goes down. Our local Ford and Dodge dealers have a good service truck program and keep utility body loaners on hand. Loaners are part of the negotiated deal for the life of the trucks so a good insurance policy to have in a situation where the truck(s) are a money maker for you. I have little problem with Chevy/GMC but our dealer is not that great.
> 
> My favorite truck that I own and the one I drive the most is my '99 F250 with 330,000 miles on it. Butt ugly but I love that old truck.
> My wife is about due for a new ride and we likely will buy used car 1-2 years old as well.


Service/business vehicles are a different thing. A friend of mine leases his work pickup truck because it makes more financial sense somehow. Tax write offs, maintenance costs, stuff like that. His brother is his accountant and crunches his numbers constantly. His truck doesn’t take a beating; he needs it to pull a trailer which has his mobile workshop in it. He makes custom fit golf clubs and travels to different golf courses with his workshop and simulator. It’s not like a construction or farm truck that’s going to have a dent in every panel with in a year. That would be a horrendous lease return bill.


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## JR 137 (Sep 9, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> The reason I buy new service trucks is for the warranty and ease of having a replacement if one goes down. Our local Ford and Dodge dealers have a good service truck program and keep utility body loaners on hand. Loaners are part of the negotiated deal for the life of the trucks so a good insurance policy to have in a situation where the truck(s) are a money maker for you. I have little problem with Chevy/GMC but our dealer is not that great.
> 
> My favorite truck that I own and the one I drive the most is my '99 F250 with 330,000 miles on it. Butt ugly but I love that old truck.
> My wife is about due for a new ride and we likely will buy used car 1-2 years old as well.


My father has an F350 Super Duty with the International Harvester diesel engine. It was given to him by a friend of his because the guy didn’t want to fix it and it had paid for itself 5x over. It had 185k miles on it. 

My father did the repairs, which were labor intensive and not much in parts cost. About 375k miles on it now. A dent in pretty much every body panel, scratched up pretty good too.

I borrow it any time I need a truck. I get comments every time too. The scrap yard guys asked if I was leaving the truck along with the metal I was dumping. The Lowe’s guy said “I guess I don’t have to be too careful” when he pulled up with the forklift to load a pallet of pavers onto the bed. It gets funny comments everywhere. My response is it’s a work truck that refuses to retire.


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## EdwardA (Sep 9, 2020)

Here's mine.  Everything is brand new, including a GSR Vtec and LSD trans.  Did all the work myself and it cost me a little more than half what the OP is talking about spending.  Also added ground control with eibach 15% stronger springs and tokico adjustible struts.  Every bushing, berring, ball joints.  Everything.

1990 Acura Integra


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## dvcochran (Sep 9, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> My father has an F350 Super Duty with the International Harvester diesel engine. It was given to him by a friend of his because the guy didn’t want to fix it and it had paid for itself 5x over. It had 185k miles on it.
> 
> My father did the repairs, which were labor intensive and not much in parts cost. About 375k miles on it now. A dent in pretty much every body panel, scratched up pretty good too.
> 
> I borrow it any time I need a truck. I get comments every time too. The scrap yard guys asked if I was leaving the truck along with the metal I was dumping. The Lowe’s guy said “I guess I don’t have to be too careful” when he pulled up with the forklift to load a pallet of pavers onto the bed. It gets funny comments everywhere. My response is it’s a work truck that refuses to retire.


Love my old 7.3 Powerstroke. I do get some looks as I have been very rough on the bed.


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## EdwardA (Sep 9, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Love my old 7.3 Powerstroke. I do get some looks as I have been very rough on the bed.



I had a '92 F350 dually with mecanical fuel injection(pre-powerstroke 7.3).  At 370k miles I moved and sold it.  Nothing major ever broke.  Did replace batteties, radiator and the starter in the decade I had.  No other problems.


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## dvcochran (Sep 9, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> I had a '92 F350 dually with mecanical fuel injection(pre-powerstroke 7.3).  At 370k miles I moved and sold it.  Nothing major ever broke.  Did replace batteties, radiator and the starter in the decade I had.  No other problems.


My 99' 7.3 PS is at 320k and still going strong.


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## Steve (Sep 9, 2020)

I had a 1969 datsun pickup truck with squishy brakes and a finicky clutch.  It had over 250,000 miles on it when I bought it, and I could never keep the points from closing up to keep the timing right.  Still cooler than a ford.  Lol.


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## EdwardA (Sep 9, 2020)

Steve said:


> I had a 1969 datsun pickup truck with squishy brakes and a finicky clutch.  It had over 250,000 miles on it when I bought it, and I could never keep the points from closing up to keep the timing right.  Still cooler than a ford.  Lol.



Saw one of those a couple years ago in nice shape.

$4000.

Cooler how? Cuteness?


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## Steve (Sep 9, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> Saw one of those a couple years ago in nice shape.
> 
> $4000.
> 
> Cooler how? Cuteness?


Just a joke.  I liked that little truck.  Learned to drive on it, but it was a deathtrap.


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## EdwardA (Sep 9, 2020)

Steve said:


> Just a joke.  I liked that little truck.  Learned to drive on it, but it was a deathtrap.



I always wanted one way back then.  Never had one.  Now they go for big money in good shape.

After riding motorcycles for 45 years, I think everything is a death trap, so I became an expert at defensive driving....and never got hurt.


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## Mitlov (Sep 10, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> Here's mine.  Everything is brand new, including a GSR Vtec and LSD trans.  Did all the work myself and it cost me a little more than half what the OP is talking about spending.  Also added ground control with eibach 15% stronger springs and tokico adjustible struts.  Every bushing, berring, ball joints.  Everything.
> 
> 1990 Acura Integra
> View attachment 23138



That's awesome! Nice car.

Personally, I have no time, interest, or ability to rebuild a 30-year-old car in my driveway, nor do I want to drive my kids around in a car with 30-year-old safety standards. So a different situation.


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## dvcochran (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> I had a 1969 datsun pickup truck with squishy brakes and a finicky clutch.  It had over 250,000 miles on it when I bought it, and I could never keep the points from closing up to keep the timing right.  Still cooler than a ford.  Lol.


I had a 1980, the last year they used the Datsun name. Good little truck.


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## Steve (Sep 10, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I had a 1980, the last year they used the Datsun name. Good little truck.


IIRC, that one I had used a hydraulic clutch.  Not only were the brakes squishy as heck, I remember one time, while downshifting off the freeway, having to pump the clutch pedal several times to get it to engage the clutch.  That thing...  learning to drive on wreck prepared me for the military.  

I drove that for about a year and then bought a 1977 Ford Mustang... 2. That's right.  The good mustang! 

And then I discovered air cooled VWs.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> Ford Focus ST - fun and sporty. And a great value. Right in your price range.


I second this. I'm a fan of the Focus, and this model would put a real smile on your face.


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## Buka (Sep 10, 2020)

I have a blue car. Always wanted a blue car, never had one before.


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## EdwardA (Sep 10, 2020)

Mitlov said:


> That's awesome! Nice car.
> 
> Personally, I have no time, interest, or ability to rebuild a 30-year-old car in my driveway, nor do I want to drive my kids around in a car with 30-year-old safety standards. So a different situation.



In the US, 100 people die every day.  3/4s of them are cars less than 6 years old.  It's not really what you drive, but how you pay attention.  I road motorcycles for 45 years...and didn't get hurt...I paid a lot of  attention.

Admittedly, more difficult to pay attention with kids in the car.


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## dvcochran (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> IIRC, that one I had used a hydraulic clutch.  Not only were the brakes squishy as heck, I remember one time, while downshifting off the freeway, having to pump the clutch pedal several times to get it to engage the clutch.  That thing...  learning to drive on wreck prepared me for the military.
> 
> I drove that for about a year and then bought a 1977 Ford Mustang... 2. That's right.  The good mustang!
> 
> And then I discovered air cooled VWs.


I drove mine for a couple of years then bought my first Jeep CJ-5. I have had 8 since and two CJ-7's. Good times. 
I don't remember having any trouble with the truck that was not self induced. There were 5 people crammed in it one night and we launched the truck at a RR crossing. Did quite a bit of damage to the steering and front suspension.


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## Steve (Sep 10, 2020)

Buka said:


> I have a blue car. Always wanted a blue car, never had one before.


I had a blue car once.  When I was in Germany, I had an Opel Ascona that was like 4 different colors, just from replacement fenders and dent repair and such.  We had a bunch of "inert blue" paint that was expired and going to be thrown away, so we painted my car inert blue.  Looked pretty good after we were done.  The color was pretty much this:




When we were done, it looked like this, but not as shiny, and with crappier wheels.  But I drove that car all over northern Europe and it never left me stranded.


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## Buka (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> I had a blue car once.  When I was in Germany, I had an Opel Ascona that was like 4 different colors, just from replacement fenders and dent repair and such.  We had a bunch of "inert blue" paint that was expired and going to be thrown away, so we painted my car inert blue.  Looked pretty good after we were done.  The color was pretty much this:
> 
> View attachment 23142
> 
> When we were done, it looked like this, but not as shiny, and with crappier wheels.  But I drove that car all over northern Europe and it never left me stranded.



That’s a great shade. Bitchin’ looking car, too.


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## EdwardA (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> I had a blue car once.  When I was in Germany, I had an Opel Ascona that was like 4 different colors, just from replacement fenders and dent repair and such.  We had a bunch of "inert blue" paint that was expired and going to be thrown away, so we painted my car inert blue.  Looked pretty good after we were done.  The color was pretty much this:
> 
> View attachment 23142
> 
> When we were done, it looked like this, but not as shiny, and with crappier wheels.  But I drove that car all over northern Europe and it never left me stranded.



Opels were great cars.  When I was 15 my mom traded her '70 Baracuda (383) for a '69 Kadet and a '63 Karman Ghia, which was mine...had two more of those later.


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## Steve (Sep 10, 2020)

Buka said:


> That’s a great shade. Bitchin’ looking car, too.


We drove that car into east germany through Dresden, Leipzig, and up to Berlin in 1990.  Was the first western car a lot of folks had seen along the road.  In retrospect, that was pretty dumb and we should have rented a German car, but we were dumb.   I was barely 20 years old. 

Funny story, we pulled into Dresden. Late at night, got out and were caught up in a huge candlelight vigil.  I asked a guy what it was for and he said it was for Lenin.  Needless to say, we gtf outta there and drove through the night into Berlin.  Last thing we wanted was to be around communists during the cold war.  

About 20 years later, I was talking to a friend who currently lives in Munich but is from Dresden, and she was talking about a vigil for John Lennon, the beatle.  Yeah, it was the same one.  Who would have thought a bunch of east germany, a year after the wall came down , were remembering john lennon.


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## Steve (Sep 10, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> Opels were great cars.  When I was 15 my mom traded her '70 Baracuda (383) for a '69 Kadet and a '63 Karman Ghia, which was mine...had two more of those later.


I had a 74 karmann ghia that I loved.  Interestingly, it was also blue.  Last year they were made.


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## EdwardA (Sep 10, 2020)

Steve said:


> I had a 74 karmann ghia that I loved.  Interestingly, it was also blue.  Last year they were made.



I had the '63, then bought myself a '68 and a '59 in that order....later, two busses and two beetles.  All air-cooled.  That's how I learned to work on cars.  Start simple.

Gave them up at 45.  No more cars without AC.


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