# CrossFit and Martial Arts



## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2013)

Lately, I've been supplementing my martial arts training with CrossFit sessions twice a week.  I started CF in June and I've seen nothing by benefits from this.  I'm finding myself in better shape than I've been in a long time and I find that my martial arts training is actually more beneficial because I'm not always trying to turn it into a workout.  I want to know if anyone else is doing this.  What has been your experience?  Do any of the exercises you do in CrossFit have direct applicability on your training?

I can't believe how much having a little more strength and explosive power has increased by abilities in sparring.  I've had good technique because I've worked it so long, but in the last few weeks, as I've really gotten better at CrossFit, I'm at a different level.  For me, this cross training helped me bust a plateau in my training.


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## Tgace (Nov 14, 2013)

Crossfit or otherwise, I've always believed that conditioning is best done separate from skill training like MA. You can of course (and probably should) do some MA workouts that push your physical conditioning, but you will never achieve a good balance of time/condition/skill trying to "get in shape" by doing martial arts training IMO. Something like crossfit is ideal IMO because it's training your body in various ways that can result in an immediate and direct benefit/correlation to martial arts or other combative events. The military and special operations community have been moving toward crossfit style HIT training as of late for similar reasons.


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## Carol (Nov 14, 2013)

I don't do crossfit but would like to if my $ situation gets a little better.  I think its an excellent program that supplements a lot of other physical activities well, be it martial arts, team sports, hiking, swimming, etc.


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## Blindside (Nov 14, 2013)

I do Crossfit about 2/3 times a week.  Really, really helped me get back into good shape, and I certainly credit them for helping me getting through my first Dog Brothers Gathering.  For me the biggest thing has been coaches watching my form and then the group workouts that push me harder than I would work out on my own.  Several of my students have commented that they have seen the difference over the past two years.


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## crushing (Nov 14, 2013)

I love CrossFit.   I got out to the website just about every day for the WOD info.  One of these days I think I may actually do the WOD.   I'll have to find the  substitutes for for the workouts that require equipment, but still.....I'm almost there!


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## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2013)

Tgace said:


> Crossfit or otherwise, I've always believed that conditioning is best done separate from skill training like MA. You can of course (and probably should) do some MA workouts that push your physical conditioning, but you will never achieve a good balance of time/condition/skill trying to "get in shape" by doing martial arts training IMO. Something like crossfit is ideal IMO because it's training your body in various ways that can result in an immediate and direct benefit/correlation to martial arts or other combative events. The military and special operations community have been moving toward crossfit style HIT training as of late for similar reasons.



This is something I've noticed at our gym.  We actually have a lot of servicemen and women who come in and train.  I'm not sure if it's supplemental to the work outs they already do, or if it's being done in place of those, but I can say that probably 70% of the clientele at our box is military.  We have a huge marine corps base in my town, so most of the guys who work out there are coming from there.  

As far as the HIT training, absolutely.  It's hard to get that in with MA workouts unless you are practicing something more sport related.  I got those kinds of workouts with Muay Thai and wrestling.  Other MA though, it's usually slower paced.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2013)

Does anyone have a favorite WOD that they feel helps their MA practice?


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## jks9199 (Nov 14, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> This is something I've noticed at our gym.  We actually have a lot of servicemen and women who come in and train.  I'm not sure if it's supplemental to the work outs they already do, or if it's being done in place of those, but I can say that probably 70% of the clientele at our box is military.  We have a huge marine corps base in my town, so most of the guys who work out there are coming from there.
> 
> As far as the HIT training, absolutely.  It's hard to get that in with MA workouts unless you are practicing something more sport related.  I got those kinds of workouts with Muay Thai and wrestling.  Other MA though, it's usually slower paced.



Crossfit has a lot of good things, and it's become very popular in the military and public safety community.  They've developed a really practical, functional definition of general fitness.  But it's also got some things that I consider major problems.  There's very little planned sequencing in the WODs, which means you could easily find yourself really overworking particular motions or muscle groups.  As a hint to this -- they've taken a relatively rare medical condition (exertional rhabdomyolosis) and induced it enough to joke about it.  Yes, some of that is the athlete's own fault for pushing themselves that way -- but coaches and trainers bear a responsibility to prevent potentially fatal conditions, in my opinion.  I also just don't like that unstructured an approach; I don't want to blast the hell out of my legs for 3 days straight, and hope for an upper body workout in the next rotation.  I do incorporate some of their principles in my own workouts, though.

The other major problem I have with Crossfit boxes is that they're all freakin' expensive!  Like 2 to 3 times a regular gym membership... and some of them only allow you to work out during the scheduled classes; you couldn't come in on your own and simply do the WOD.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 14, 2013)

I train on my own every morning, mixing kata with other martial arts exercises, but from what I've learned so far, with a jump rope, a kettle bell, a wooden box and small mat, I can bust out some impressive WODs on my own. CF has the barbells and big stuff that I can't use at home. I think a person could join for six months, take good notes, and probably have enough knowledge to get started by themselves.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Does anyone have a favorite WOD that they feel helps their MA practice?



Turkish Get Ups, Box Jumps and Hand Stand Push Ups.  These are some of my favorite Wod elements so far.  I'm terrible at Hand Stand Push Ups, but I can easily kick up and move around on my hands.  I like kicking up and rolling out of it.  Anyway, the TGU is a surprisingly difficult maneuver.  I was trying them with kettle bells and after a few, my shoulders were burning.  I particularly like way this strengthens the core and forces you to move around while holding the core stable.


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## Blindside (Nov 15, 2013)

Named WOD?  Probably Kelly, 5 rounds of running, wallballs, and box jumps.

For me the best thing has been the Olympic lifting, something I never did before joining CF.  Of course I could get it elsewhere, but I like the concept of training to be the all around athlete.  Tonight was front squats and rope climbs, not something I would normally do on my own.


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## Tgace (Nov 15, 2013)

I used to do a homebrew of various named WOD's.

Currently I do:

MON: 25 pushups 25 situps 25 squats 4 rounds for time. Supplemented with some posterior chain work like hamstring raises and hypertensions.  

WED: 100 burpee workout. 100 burpees for time (broken into manageable work/rest chunks for now). I incorporate sets of chin-ups by doing them under a bar and jumping into a chin.

FRI: Deadlifts. I was up to 2X bodyweight but after a layoff am working back up. Am doing 325 lbs for 3 reps at a set for max currently.

On off days and weekends I will either run, do some flexibility work and/or some bagwork in the garage (heavy and double-end).


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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2013)

Here is my favorite named workout.  Fight Gone Bad.

http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/003774.html


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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2013)

All of the Hero WODs are off the chain as well.

http://crossfitiota.com/bench-marks/hero-wods/
http://crossfitiota.com/bench-marks/hero-wods/hero-wods-page-2/


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## Blindside (Nov 15, 2013)

Yeah, those are ridiculous, I haven't done many, but so far my least favorite is Murph.  I hate running.


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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2013)

Blindside said:


> Yeah, those are ridiculous, I haven't done many, but so far my least favorite is Murph.  I hate running.



We do a couple of Hero Wods a month on Sundays and those are days I ususally hit it hard, so I can just crash on the beach afterward. Those....are crazy. Holy ****.


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## jks9199 (Nov 15, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> I train on my own every morning, mixing kata with other martial arts exercises, but from what I've learned so far, with a jump rope, a kettle bell, a wooden box and small mat, I can bust out some impressive WODs on my own. CF has the barbells and big stuff that I can't use at home. I think a person could join for six months, take good notes, and probably have enough knowledge to get started by themselves.



Hell -- the site offers WODs and more for free.  The exercise demos are one of my go-tos.  The boxes?  I think they're riding a wave of popularity, and charging what the market will bear.


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## Tgace (Nov 15, 2013)

My only DIY crossfit fear....trying the Olympic lift WODs without formal instruction.

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## Makalakumu (Nov 15, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> Hell -- the site offers WODs and more for free.  The exercise demos are one of my go-tos.  The boxes?  I think they're riding a wave of popularity, and charging what the market will bear.



OTOH, I think boxes have something to offer certain kinds of people that they can't get on their own or in gyms.  For example, I like working out by myself.  I am kind of an introvert and I definitely need my alone time in the morning in order to rev up my people engine for the day.  I also don't mind working out by myself when I get stressed out and just need a break from people.  

My wife is an extrovert and she has a hard time working out alone.  She gets stoked by the energy of the box and likes the atmosphere because she feels like it pushes her harder than she would push herself.  I actually recommended CF to her last year because she was in kind of a PT slump and wanted to change things around.  Going to work out in the social atmosphere really worked for her.  So, I think a lot of people might be paying for that kind of atmosphere.  You can be social and you don't have to be self directed because you have a coach there who is going to directing things.  

Everyone is different.  I could set up all of the box equipment in my garage and rock it to some loud music.  My wife...not so much.


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## Tgace (Nov 16, 2013)

Crossfit fees are way too expensive IMO....

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## Makalakumu (Nov 16, 2013)

Tgace said:


> Crossfit fees are way too expensive IMO....
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



For a lot of people, totally true.

Ok, so here is an interesting tidbit I heard on the Fightworks podcast, a podcast dedicated to BJJ. The host interviewed one of the top trainers and this guy claimed that the current ADCC and Jujutsu world champion was training CF six days a week and jujutsu three times a week. I thought this was pretty awesome! I'm sure the strength training is probably allowing him to edge out his competition. 

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to roll with someone who could consistently RX CF WODs. Those guys would be so ridiculously strong, just grabbing on holding onto anything they don't want you to be holding onto would be difficult.


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## Tgace (Nov 16, 2013)

I agree...fitness adds a level of combative advantage all its own. But if I were paying for crossfit AND martial arts instruction AND firearms training...etc. Id be in the poor house. 

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## Makalakumu (Nov 16, 2013)

Tgace said:


> I agree...fitness adds a level of combative advantage all its own. But if I were paying for crossfit AND martial arts instruction AND firearms training...etc. Id be in the poor house.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



Try paying for MA instruction, CF, and living in Hawaii.  Maybe we can split a Bud Lite in the poor house.


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## Blindside (Nov 16, 2013)

Tgace said:


> I agree...fitness adds a level of combative advantage all its own. But if I were paying for crossfit AND martial arts instruction AND firearms training...etc. Id be in the poor house.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2



I try to work it so my training group fees cover my CF and training fees, on target to just break even this year.  Fingers crossed....


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 16, 2013)

If you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone, that will even be better. Here is an example.

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/2963/heavenweight.jpg


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## Makalakumu (Nov 16, 2013)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone, that will even be better. Here is an example.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img703/2963/heavenweight.jpg



Now, you just brought up a topic that has been itching under the surface of my consciousness. I train karate and all of the old pictures of the old masters have them working out with various weight training implements. We also have evidence of traditional training methods that incorporated this kind of training with kata. My conclusion is that this type of training was more integrated into practice of the MA than it is today. I'm really interested in this aspect of MA history right now. I'd love to bring this into my dojo.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 16, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Now, you just brought up a topic that has been itching under the surface of my consciousness. I train karate and all of the old pictures of the old masters have them working out with various weight training implements. We also have evidence of traditional training methods that incorporated this kind of training with kata. My conclusion is that this type of training was more integrated into practice of the MA than it is today. I'm really interested in this aspect of MA history right now. I'd love to bring this into my dojo.



IMO, this kind of traditional equipment training make a big difference between the traditional MA and the modern MA. 

In 

- tradition MA approach, you use special weight equipment to "enhance" special technique. You think about MA when you work on your weight equipment. You can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
- modern MA approach, you may separate gym work out from MA work out. When you work out in your gym, you usually don't think about MA at all. You can't kill 2 birds with 1 stone.


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## wingchun100 (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't do Crossfit because I work two jobs and would have no time to go there. Instead I do home-based fitness programs. Some people may say they are overpriced, but in the long run they don't cost any more than a gym or personal trainer. I do my best to buy only the ones that fall under the umbrella of "functional fitness." Lately I have been setting aside time to research different workout routines so that I can come up with one on my own. Why? Because it's a challenge.  I like that the programs already have things laid out for me but, with all the knowledge I've gained over the years, I'd like to see if I can come up with something that would work just as well, then maybe beta test it on some fellow martial artists.


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