# Banned User situation - Was: Modern Arnis Situation/Succession  - Was "A question that needs to be a



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 12, 2001)

We're working on some modifications that will clear up several forum issues... gonna take some time.  

regarding Keil... I think you hit it...there was a snapping...without going into  alot of detail on it, the situation as a whole "got to him".  I've known him a while...he's normally pretty calm, but sometimes, something just pushes a persons buttons.  He received at least 3 threats of physical violence that I'm aware of, for speaking what I consider to an extent to have been many peoples thoughts.  Do I agree with everything that was said? Nope, but this is an open forum, where we can all say our part without fear of censorship.

I understand the tempers part...this issue has been real hot at times...I think part of Keils intent might have been to be a pressure release...I dunno...he's a hard read sometimes.

Heres a question....He spoke his mind, and got banned for it.  3 members threatened physical harm (in the heat of anger), yet weren't banned or suspended.  Is that fair?  And, if it was right to suspend his membership due to his actions (which can be taken in a provocative way), is it right to make it permanent, or should a previously productive member of this forum be given a 2nd chance to again contribute to our community?

We aren't all going to agree on things, and hey, thats ok.  It would be boring if we did.  But, I have this, I dunno, belief that martial artists can rise above the urge to kick the crap outta someone who ticks us off...Heck, I know some of you guys, and know of alot of the rest.  I think we're all better than this pettyness. 

I understand why things got hot..and I'm sorry I let it go like I did...I'm new at this admin stuff.    Apology accepted.  Lets all play nice now....save the heat for this winter..I got a feelign we're gonna need it.


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## GouRonin (Nov 13, 2001)

Threats?

As they say in South Park...

"Dude, that's pretty %$#@ed up right there."


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## IFAJKD (Nov 13, 2001)

Ok. the top of this forum states friendly martial arts discussion. At the sametime this IS a heated issue. If you know him and believe that it's a snap kinda thing, let him back in. Kaith, I am not sure if you are talking about me. If you are, I don't really believe I threatened him with violence. I never sent him a private message. I was clearly angry and only gave him a kind of response which has elicited threats in the past. I just didn't want to get all kinds of nasty emails. instead, just bring it. that has been my mentality. I now have heard that you know him and have again reread his other posts and see that this seemd like two different people. I believe that he should not be permenently banned. Also give him a chance to amend things to DPresas.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 13, 2001)

IFAJKD : part of your responce 'could' be taken as a threat..or an invitation to clear things up.  depends on how you read it. :/ My 1st read thru, I saw it in a threatening manner, which combined with the other individuals who lashed out gave me bad vibes,  A reread gives me a different feeling now...Don't worry about it.    Most of my responce was directed at those involved in this issue in general.

The mods are discussing this issue right now...

The whole issue is very heated, because of the personal connections, and the political issues.  *sigh*


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## IFAJKD (Nov 13, 2001)

I wouldn't want to be in your place. On one hand there needs to be some wider margins for such a heated issue but on the other hand it would easy for new viewers to misunderstand and apply the same content to other threads. Again. I hope you do reconsider Keils banning.  The reality is that this issue will be around for many years to come. It will also probably result in a few different factions as people go theirown way all claiming they are the legitimate ones to "carry on" 
again,Good luck. :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 13, 2001)

Heh..I don't wanna be in my place either.  

I just got done rereading this entire bloody thread....(gods, almost 200 msgs here alone!).  We have wandered far an wide on this topic.  What topic?  Good question.  We started out with "How can JD call himself a GM", touched on the "rights of succession" of JD, the MOTTS, the IMAF, the WMAA, the Presas family.  Worked thru a few attacks.  Saw 1 guy get banned "For Summing up the first 50 posts!!!"  Every bloody point he made in those last 2 "Rants" were already made by someone else.  I think there was a misunderstanding between Keil and several others.  I think theysaw the repeated references to  "Children" and possibly thought it was an attack at the family.  (or maybe the cracker jack box comment was it...thats about the only "personal attack" I see in there).  I think Keil had a "bad Day" and just "posted without doublechecking". I dunno.  Somewhere, somehow the "Honor" of several individuals were offended, and "Honor" needed to be satisfied...by all parties.  I think mines been tarnished by this whole thing. 

This thread has contained an incredible amount of Jeff Delany bashing, and Ms. Harwoods been draged thru the mud here a few times too.  Yet their bashers wern't repremanded.  Why?  I don't know.  


To sum this thread up:
"JD's right to call himself a GM" - none, or all, depends on who you believe.

"Who's in charge of the IMAF now?" JD and RS, in their versions respectivly.

"Who's the successor to RP?" - we all are.  its our responsibility to carry the dream forward.  Be it JD, or Tim Hartman, or the Presas family, or the MOTTs, or just us white belts.  We all must carry it forward in our own ways, and honor that which GM Presas shared with us all.  Someday, 1 person will shine again above the rest, and we will have another MA GM.  But not today.  Today, we all pick up our sticks, and play nice, and learn, together, that which GM Presas taught. 

The rest is crap....I screwed up when I banned Keil...I should have talked to both parties and cleared the misunderstandings up, or made the attempt first.  Sorry folks, I dropped the ball here.  Next time, I'll do better.  This thread is our hottest topic...I've given it a -wide- margin of flex due to the heat level...sometimes I think I should have killed it, but everytime I do, a few of you folks post some good stuff in here, resolve some issues, clear up a bit more of the picture.  So I let it continue. I now feel I should have locked it a while ago, regardless.

This thread will be locked shortly...I'm leaving it open for a day or 2 so anyone who wishes can respond to the last few posts made here.  Please start new threads on further MA stuff in the right forums.  I think this ones due to retirement.

Peace.

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Nov 13, 2001)

Ohhh man! Did you ever screw the pooch on this one! You dropped the ball! You fumbled the pass! You threw a brick! You swang like a rusty gate!

I can't stay in a forum where the moderator is a human being who screws up. That's it! I AM OUTA HERE!

If anyone wants me I'll be at the nudie bar.
:wavey:
Heh heh heh...


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## arnisador (Nov 13, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *I screwed up when I banned Keil...
> *



I don't know whether this is true or not, but I do wish to say two things: It's encouraging to see Kaith accept responsibility and make a public statement such as this in this regard, erring on the side of fairness over ego; and, it's unseemly to continue discussing in public the situation of a user who cannot respond.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 14, 2001)

Thank you for understanding.  I try.  

Keil is being allowed back in a probatory way.  If there is a problem, please use the "report this post to a mod" feature and myself or the other mods will handle it.

thank you.

:asian:


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