# I need help in teaching myself



## EliasDickinson (May 5, 2012)

I live in southern Arizona in a rather small town called Sierra Vista. The local dojo/studios are overpriced and seem somewhat phony. Unfortunately Wing Chun isn't taught here (I would have to drive to Tucson or Phoenix approx. 150 and 200 miles away to learn) So I have sought to teach myself in the comfort of my home, and with my friend (also in the same predicament as me) at school.

I can do Siu Nim Tau and have Prof. Ting's book to assist me. The problem I seem to be facing is not knowing how to teach myself/my friend, and I am having trouble trying to learn the motions of Dan Chi Sau. What should I do?


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## mook jong man (May 5, 2012)

EliasDickinson said:


> I live in southern Arizona in a rather small town called Sierra Vista. The local dojo/studios are overpriced and seem somewhat phony. Unfortunately Wing Chun isn't taught here (I would have to drive to Tucson or Phoenix approx. 150 and 200 miles away to learn) So I have sought to teach myself in the comfort of my home, and with my friend (also in the same predicament as me) at school.
> 
> I can do Siu Nim Tau and have Prof. Ting's book to assist me. The problem I seem to be facing is not knowing how to teach myself/my friend, and I am having trouble trying to learn the motions of Dan Chi Sau. What should I do?



Go and train with Geezer , Joy or Eric, I think they live in that part of America.
Forget teaching yourself mate , it is not possible.


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## EliasDickinson (May 5, 2012)

Hmm, what can I do until August when I leave for the military?


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## Blindside (May 5, 2012)

EliasDickinson said:


> Hmm, what can I do until August when I leave for the military?



I would go to that MMA place in your town and start with the fundamentals of kickboxing and BJJ.  Depending on what branch of the military you are going into, it may be very helpful with relation to the military hand-to-hand training.


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## EliasDickinson (May 5, 2012)

I am going into the Air Force, so hand-to-hand combat won't be a big deal. I really want to learn Wing Chun because it's cool, and seems more practical than any of the other things taught here. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu seems kind of impractical since most people here don't fight fair or alone.


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## Blindside (May 5, 2012)

It probably won't help you with regard to H2H then.  Still there is nothing wrong with a good grounding in basic striking and grappling technique.  It will certainly be a better benefit than trying to teach yourself WC.


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## EliasDickinson (May 5, 2012)

That is very true


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## EliasDickinson (May 6, 2012)

Have I mentioned I am a high school senior who, not for lack of trying his hardest, is unable to get a job?


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## WC_lun (May 6, 2012)

I know this isn't what you wanna hear, but it is impossible to teach yourself Wing Chun.  It takes tactile input with someone who knows what they are doing.  You don't learn the form and learn Wing Chun.  Good luck and I hope you get the training you want soon.


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## mook jong man (May 6, 2012)

EliasDickinson said:


> Have I mentioned I am a high school senior who, not for lack of trying his hardest, is unable to get a job?



I think you will only have to pay for petrol , I'm pretty sure Geezer teaches for free out of the goodness of his own heart.
Your just going to have to supply the motivation to drive the 150 miles or whatever to get to him.


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## blindsage (May 6, 2012)

Not to question your knowledge of where you live, but according to Google maps Tucson is only 75-80 miles from Sierra Vista.  There are at least 2 schools teaching Wing Chun there and one of them is Augustine Fong's school.  If you really want to learn some Wing Chun I would recommend that you find a way to get to Tucson.  On the other hand if you are about to leave in August, you won't be able to learn a whole lot in just 3 months.  You can not teach yourself any martial arts, so the best thing you can do if REALLY want to train, is to find a way to join a school and stick with it.


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## geezer (May 6, 2012)

If you are really serious about learning WC/WT/VT either get up to Tucson and work with Augustine Fong's group or PM me and I'll give you some contacts in the Leung Ting lineage (my own background). 

I normally would just write you off as a naive young guy with an unrealistic whim to learn kung fu. But I can tell you about another teenager I knew who wanted to become a WT master. I helped train this young kid once. He moved heaven and earth to get training... driving from Austin down to San Antonio to train, even flying to Phoenix to train with my kung fu brothers and to take seminars with Leung Ting himself. Then he shipped out in the Air Force, and somehow managed to get stationed at _Ramstein Air Force Base_ in Germany, within commuting distance of the EWTO HQ at Schloss Langenzell near Heidelberg. This kid trained with some of the top guys in Europe and even became a personal student of Leung Ting's top European disciple, GM Keith Kernspecht. Now, many years later he's back in Austin. He's a 6th Level Master and head of the Association I belong to, the NVTO. And this kid I once helped to train is now _my_ instructor! 

Some links:
http://www.ramstein.af.mil/
http://www.wingtsunwelt.com/
http://www.wingtsun.de/dachverband/schloss_langenzell.html

Leung Ting WT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf11ynP4qJk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL390CCD111C41116F


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## yak sao (May 6, 2012)

The military may open up a lot of doors for you with regards to training MA. 
Find a decent MMA/boxing school so you can learn some fundamental body mechanics and get accustomed to learning with your body, then after basic is over and the dust settles, you may find yourself very close to a WC school.
If you look hard enough and are dilligent, there will be a WC school for you, you just may have to wait it out for a while


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## Vajramusti (May 6, 2012)

EliasDickinson said:


> Hmm, what can I do until August when I leave for the military?


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I do not thibk that you can teach yourself good wing chun. IF you are serious--
Sierra Vista is about an hour and a half away from Tucson. Fong's wing chun has a good Saturday class there.
You can drive there and back on the same day.

joy chaudhuri


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## Vajramusti (May 7, 2012)

Vajramusti said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I do not thibk that you can teach yourself good wing chun. IF you are serious--
> Sierra Vista is about an hour and a half away from Tucson. Fong's wing chun has a good Saturday class there.
> ...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS>
I can't tell how serious you are. Tucson is about 60 miles away from Sierra Vista.
Further a very good student of mine- who eventually will be in the Armed forces is moving to Sierra Vista
in a few days and will be there for about a year.My email addie is under "Contact" on my website at 
www.tempewingchun.com
If you drop me a line I could give you my student's email and you might talk him into teaching you or getting you started.

joy chaudhuri


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## Josh Oakley (May 7, 2012)

EliasDickinson said:


> I live in southern Arizona in a rather small town called Sierra Vista. The local dojo/studios are overpriced and seem somewhat phony. Unfortunately Wing Chun isn't taught here (I would have to drive to Tucson or Phoenix approx. 150 and 200 miles away to learn) So I have sought to teach myself in the comfort of my home, and with my friend (also in the same predicament as me) at school.
> 
> I can do Siu Nim Tau and have Prof. Ting's book to assist me. The problem I seem to be facing is not knowing how to teach myself/my friend, and I am having trouble trying to learn the motions of Dan Chi Sau. What should I do?



Wc is pretty complex and there are a lot of fine points you will miss if you aren't with an instructor. My advice... Don't train yourself.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2


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## Siunimtao (May 12, 2012)

If you want to learn the Real Wing Chun  5 years of practicing the Sui Nim Tao Form Correctly will award you,  The Form has nothing to do with Fighting, Dont even worry about Punching Some one, 
The Form Teaches a Method of appliying your body mass to a point,    Sui Nim Tao is your Teacher, Study the form,


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## Blindside (May 12, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> If you want to learn the Real Wing Chun  5 years of practicing the Sui Nim Tao Form Correctly will award you,  The Form has nothing to do with Fighting, Dont even worry about Punching Some one,
> The Form Teaches a Method of appliying your body mass to a point,    Sui Nim Tao is your Teacher, Study the form,



I don't do WC, but I'm fairly certain the doing any form for 5 years in the air and by yourself or with an inexperienced training partner isn't going to result in you learning the "real Wing Chun."


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## yak sao (May 12, 2012)

I am a strong believer in the importance of Siu Nim Tao. 
You will never have good WC without a firm foundation in this form , and even after you have moved on to the other forms, this form should continue to be trained.
But first of all, it has to be learned by someone who knows what they're doing.
There is no way you will be able to pick up all the little nuances from a book or DVD.


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## Siunimtao (May 13, 2012)

Blindside said:


> I don't do WC, but I'm fairly certain the doing any form for 5 years in the air and by yourself or with an inexperienced training partner isn't going to result in you learning the "real Wing Chun."



Yes, All you need is the Air,   You dont need nor want a training partner either,


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## yak sao (May 13, 2012)

Siunimtao said:


> Yes, All you need is the Air, You dont need nor want a training partner either,



WC takes a very minimalist approach to training; there is nothing there that doesn't need to be there, so SNT is a very necessary component, and I would say most people don't spend enough time on it unlocking its "secrets".
But to throw out the other forms, the chi sau, etc. is plain wrong. Not because it's my opinion, but because it was the opinion of the people who developed our system. They knew more about fighting and how it pertains to the human body than most of us will ever come close to; so to throw away their roadmap is either laziness, ignorance or hubris.


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## Siunimtao (May 13, 2012)

yak sao said:


> WC takes a very minimalist approach to training; there is nothing there that doesn't need to be there, so SNT is a very necessary component, and I would say most people don't spend enough time on it unlocking its "secrets".
> But to throw out the other forms, the chi sau, etc. is plain wrong. Not because it's my opinion, but because it was the opinion of the people who developed our system. They knew more about fighting and how it pertains to the human body than most of us will ever come close to; so to throw away their roadmap is either laziness, ignorance or hubris.



Yes and No,

Chum Kiu and chi sao are of no use untill you master SNT,  other wise you will learn bad habits, these Bad habbits will hinder your SNT,
Chum Kui, Fighting Form,  Chi Sao, Applying  The Tools,


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## EliasDickinson (May 21, 2012)

Sorry I have been so late responding, I had a school trip last week. @Joy: You have a student who is willing to instruct?


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## rickster (May 22, 2012)

Teaching yourself is not likely.

Better to train for a few months under someone qualfied.

At least, you will see if you like it and and perhaps know what to look for from another wherever your venture may take you.

Do not do things because it is a fad or "Looks cool"

This is false motivation and can lead to un-expecting "let-downs"


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 30, 2012)

first of all i must say that i wish you the best of luck with the Air Force. My younger brother just shipped out to boot camp about a month ago. Now in regards to your wanting to "train yourself"....let me give you my own personal experience with that...

I have beent rainign martial arts for awhile now. Currently under my belt I have some WC training (first form, basic principles), 5+ years of Seven Star PrayingMantis (my main style), Hsing-I (5 elements), and currently been taking Bagua from a local Sifu once a month which i must is amazing for my back (I have a bad pinched nerve and have had surgery recently which made me put my more vigorous 7 Star training on hold while i recover) now...all of the above I have trained with Sifu's in person.....BUT the following I have researched online to learn eitehr by book/video or "distance learning"
Wing Chun - before i talked to my sifu about it, i purchased a few books on IP Man Lineage WC and began trying to do the form on my own as well as study the principles and basics
Drunken Boxing in the Eight Shadow Style - I am obsessed with drunken fist...it just looks so amazing to me and was trying to learn it but nobody close knew anything about it...i found an online distance course which the teacher was very knowledgable and he knew his stuff but something like drunken kung fu is very difficult to study without seeing how to move and the correct postures
Traditional Pak Mei - amazing style but nobody within 2 hours teaches it......so i tried reading up and watching videos.....


Now.....let me tell you that I DO NOT RECOMMEND EVER TRYING TO TEACH YOURSELF ANY MARTIAL ARTS AND TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO LEARN FROM A REAL TEACHER.....I cannot stress this enough. The knowledge someone has from training with people in person over the years is def worth it and you learn so much more then you could ever imagine then just watching videos and reading. 

Example: When i first started to mess with Wing Chun i tried to go over the basics.....and i THOUGHT i knew everything about the basic principles of WC until I spoke to my 7 Star Praying Mantis teacher (studed WC for many years along with other styles) and after 2 classes of wing chun with him I couldnt believe how wrong I was.....I couldnt even get the stance right....at all....

Please..do yourself a favor and if you cant train now with a real teacher then wait.....its not worth trying to teach yourself the wrong way just to find out in a real fight that everything you think you know is useless.....im grateful for the masters I have spoken too and my current teachers as they trully are amazing at what they do and what they know...

Since your going into the Air Force that means you will have chances to go all around the world....meeting many other professionals and teachers of different arts. Who knows...you may find yourself wanting to learn something different although from what little I know of WC i can tell you, WC is a great choice . My younger brother is very interested in martial arts and he has told me before he left he will be looking into finding a teacher and finding a style he wants to learn.

Happy Training friend, and I am not a master by any means so pelase dont think im being mean and telling you that I know everything or if something i said above sounded offensive....i didnt mean anything like that . I wish you luck in your future training and your adventures in the airforce....just remember 3 rulesa bout going over seas....

1) when picking up a woman, always "check for hardware"
2) if you find yourself in japan, dont go into the city alone and avoid any japanese men covered in tattoos....
3) dont eat the live octopus no matter how much they pick on you....SAY NO

Happy Training


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## mograph (May 31, 2012)

Psychologically speaking, to learn a skill effectively, you need:
1. - exposure to the skill
2. - practice (repetition)
3. - feedback

1. Learning from a video, you will only be exposed to what the teacher/videographer/editor/director chooses to show you. You cannot move to a new position to see a different angle, you cannot see the form in 3D, and you cannot see small details that were not included in the shot. Instead, you will fill in the blanks with your own preconceptions, biases and habits. This is only human.
2. Sure, you can watch and practice, but without new info, you will probably reinforce the problems found in step 1, making them harder to fix later.
3. A teacher can give you feedback. Studies have shown that if you get stuck and plateau, feedback creates a new learning curve and more learning can take place. A video cannot give you feedback. Even if you send a video to us or a teacher, that isn't interactive, and essentially replicates many of the issue in #1, only this time you're the shooter/editor etc. And of course, the teacher's feedback is a variation on #1 again.

Learn good self-defence from a good live teacher. Don't get hung up on its being Wing Chun or Taijiquan or Xingyi or Bagua or whatever. Keep an open mind, and adapt & compare techniques. This comparison and reorganization of learned skills would be called "deep processing", which leads to better understanding and retention.


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## Vajramusti (May 31, 2012)

mograph said:


> Psychologically speaking, to learn a skill effectively, you need:
> 1. - exposure to the skill
> 2. - practice (repetition)
> 3. - feedback
> ...


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## geezer (Jun 1, 2012)

Joy, let us know if he sticks with it. It would be nice to think that at least once in a while we connect with somebody new on this forum who actually decides to study WC for a while!


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## Vajramusti (Jun 2, 2012)

geezer said:


> Joy, let us know if he sticks with it. It would be nice to think that at least once in a while we connect with somebody new on this forum who actually decides to study WC for a while!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will if I find out. He will going into the Air force in a couple of months or so and he was serious enough to try and follow a video before being corrected
weekly.

joy chaudhuri


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## Jsanto (Jun 5, 2012)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I will if I find out. He will going into the Air force in a couple of months or so and he was serious enough to try and follow a video before being corrected
> weekly.
> 
> joy chaudhuri



Hi Sifu,

He is practicing pretty regularly.  His improvement is coming along greatly.  3 months isn't enough time to learn wing chun well, but it'll give him a good base and a critical eye for what's right if he listens.  Hopefully he will find a good school or someone to practice with when he leaves or at least go to Sigung's seminars to further his learning in the many years(and hundreds of thousands of punches) to come.

Josh Santobianco


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