# Man tried to hire prostitute for his son, 14



## Ceicei (May 16, 2009)

> LONDON (Reuters) - A man who tried to hire a prostitute to take his 14-year-old son's virginity as a present was spared jail by a court on Friday.   The Polish national took the boy out in his car and allowed him to pick out the prostitute, who was standing at the side of the road in the red-light district of Nottingham.  But the 42-year-old father was arrested because the teenager had chosen an undercover police officer, Nottingham Crown Court heard.



Rest of the article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idINTRE54E4CT20090515

It seemed odd that a parent would consider the "taking virginity" from their own child as a gift by using a prostitute.

Your thoughts?

- Ceicei


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## Bob Hubbard (May 16, 2009)

Saw an episode of Cathouse on HBO where mamma took her son to the Bunny Ranch to lose his virginity.  I think he was 21 though.


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## searcher (May 17, 2009)

I am at a loss for words.


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## jarrod (May 17, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Saw an episode of Cathouse on HBO where mamma took her son to the Bunny Ranch to lose his virginity. I think he was 21 though.


 
best. mom. ever.

jf


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## tellner (May 17, 2009)

It wasn't always that unusual. Of course, it was usually the father rather than the mother. But consider, not that long ago most men's first sexual experience was with prostitutes. And by some measures there were more paid sex acts than marital ones at least in the US and the UK.


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## Makalakumu (May 17, 2009)

Bastards should have gone to Amsterdam.


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## kaizasosei (May 17, 2009)

Nice thought.  I can see the good intention and all, but seriously, prostitutes are typically really bad experiences period.


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## chrispillertkd (May 17, 2009)

Ceicei said:


> Your thoughts?
> 
> - Ceicei


 
My thoughts? 

1) The father should have his face beaten until it resembles jelly. 

2) You will undoubtedly get several responses from posters making light of the situation, especially tying things to the recent spate of child rape by female teachers in the States. 

3) People will confuse being "enlightened" or "not hung up about" sex with a rather low view of the human person. As Lewis once said: 

"When I was a youngster, all the progressive people were saying, 'Why all this prudery? Let us treat sex just as we treat all our other impulses.' I was simple minded enough to believe they meant what they said. I have since discovered that they meant exactly the opposite. They meant that sex was to be treated as no other impulse in our nature has ever been treated by civilized people. All the others, we admit, have to be bridled ... But every unkindness and breach of faith seems to be condoned provided that the object aimed at is 'four bare legs in a bed.'"

Pax,

Chris


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2009)

Probably a silly thing for him to do but personally I'm more concerned about the 14 year old prostitutes out there.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/05/13/craigslist_erotic_ads.html


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2009)

chrispillertkd said:


> My thoughts?
> 
> 1) The father should have his face beaten until it resembles jelly.
> 
> ...


 
You don't think much of the rest of us do you?


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## chrispillertkd (May 17, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> You don't think much of the rest of us do you?


 
I reserve judgment about _people_ until I know them. I don't know you at all, other than what you've posted here. Judgments on positions, however, are another matter.

Are you going to hire a prostitute for your son? Are you going to make light of what amounts to child rape where the parent is complicet like in theposted news story or where it's perpetrated by a teacher? Are you going to offer a rather tired defense of so-called sexual progressivism? 

If you are going to do any or all of those things then I'm certainly not going to have any respect for your positions. 

I will point out, however, that your own response to my post is rather a jump in logic and completely baseless. 

Pax,

Chris


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2009)

chrispillertkd said:


> I reserve judgment about _people_ until I know them. I don't know you at all, other than what you've posted here. Judgments on positions, however, are another matter.
> 
> Are you going to hire a prostitute for your son? Are you going to make light of what amounts to child rape where the parent is complicet like in theposted news story or where it's perpetrated by a teacher? Are you going to offer a rather tired defense of so-called sexual progressivism?
> 
> ...


 
No you stated as a fact that people would come on here making light of the subject so no leap there.


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## kaizasosei (May 17, 2009)

No need to get all emotional.  We don't know all the specs to this story and are all probably imagining it in our own kind of way.  
I'd would definately hope that a child is never abused, be it directly or indirectly through pressure or what not.  

Realistically speaking, my greatest concern in such matters would be what was already mentioned by Ceicei, that, in a modern and liberal world, a child that could probably have a wonderful experience with someone he actually likes, is coerced into geting it on with a prostitute that most likely is only out for easy cash and could care less of providing the customer with a good experience, much less something 'authentic', at least from the emotional aspect.
 That Would be robbing the youngster of his own right to experience sexuality on his more or less on his own or at least without the need of prostitutes.





j


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## chrispillertkd (May 17, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> No you stated as a fact that people would come on here making light of the subject so no leap there.


 
Considering someone has already said a mother that got a prostitute for her 21 year old son is the best mom ever I'm not sure I won't be vindicated at some point. Maybe not now that I pointed it out, but the day is young.

And extrapolating my saying that some people ("several posters") would do so into me not thinking much of "the rest of us" is rather a leap. A huge overreaction, in fact.

Hey, I _HOPE_ I'm wrong about that! But I've seen more idiotic things on the old intraweb, that's for sure. 

Pax,

Chris


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## Bob Hubbard (May 17, 2009)

I look at it this way:
Most places want you to have some training before they give you a gun permit, or a drivers license.  Guess if the ability to take lives requires some training, getting some expert hands on in a matter that could create life is just as smart.

I don't see a problem with prostitution.
I don't see a problem with a parent, taking their child to one, IF! said child is actually interested, IF! said child is mature enough to understand things.
It is a more controlled environment than 2 kids fumbling around in a parked car in a secluded area.  
For 1, the prostitute will most likely insist on safe sex. A condom will be used. Same is not usually the case when it's left to random chance.

Now, that said, the parent could face charges of child endangerment, contributing to the corruption of a minor, assisted sexual assault, intent, etc. A real prostitute could be charges with child rape, etc. Because that's how the law sees it, and I don't disagree.

So, I don't disagree with the parent, and I also don't disagree with the law here.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 17, 2009)

chrispillertkd said:


> Considering someone has already said a mother that got a prostitute for her 21 year old son is the best mom ever I'm not sure I won't be vindicated at some point. Maybe not now that I pointed it out, but the day is young.
> 
> And extrapolating my saying that some people ("several posters") would do so into me not thinking much of "the rest of us" is rather a leap. A huge overreaction, in fact.
> 
> ...


Just for the record, he might have been in his 30's.......I don't recall, I dumped HBO 2 years ago.


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## elder999 (May 17, 2009)

Ceicei said:


> It seemed odd that a parent would consider the "taking virginity" from their own child as a gift by using a prostitute.
> 
> Your thoughts?
> 
> - Ceicei


 

Not so odd. In some African cultures, daughters were (are?) traditionally "deflowered" by their fathers. Others cultures had customs where, at one time, daughters ritually lost their virginity to chiefs, priests or, sometimes, complete strangers. In India and South America, brides at one time were mechanically deflowered by their mothers-this "prenuptial penetration" was to prepare the daughter for intercourse, and make it more pleasant by getting blood out of the way. One good example of daughters being ritually deflowered by chiefs is in Hawaian and other Polynesian cultures, where daughters were taken to the chief for  _'Na ke ali'i e moe mua'_ literally, "For the chief to sleep with her for the first time." Those all seem pretty "odd" to me, and probably to most of you, but they were normal for those cultures-and, one has to remember, there are "cutlures _within _cultures." One shouldn't discount the possibility that this father was repeating for his son what his own father had done for him...

Morality aside, the chief impediment here, other than the stigma of "purchasing sex," is, of course, that the prostitution was illegal-as someone said, they should have gone to Amsterdam.Some may be shocked by the youth of the kid involved, but there are quite a few of us here in the U.S. who managed to shed our own "bothersome" virginity by that age. Culturally, again, I've known more than one Italian or Greek man in the U.S. who admitted to losing his virginity in much the same fashion as was intended in the article, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that other Italian and Greek American men lost their virginity in just such a fashion: their dad's provided them with a willing, paid, partner-for their birthday, no doubt..... 

On the other hand, in my family I started a little custom whereby I demonstrated condom use for my son (with a banana!!), made sure he had enough of them, taught him that "No' means *"NO"*, and not only that, *STOP!* _usually_ and, that if he did "*STOP*", _the girl would probably try to make it pretty clear when it didn't mean that. _Also told him that there was no rush, even though it probably felt like there was.......

And, along with the pretty comprehensive, _voluntary_ sex-ed the school district offered, pretty much sent him on his way-while making it clear that if I heard about any abortions, or had to take him to a clinic, or had any grandchildren before I turned 50, he'd be out of the will. None of that happened-it was an idle but realistic threat, anyway-he managed a pretty good social life on his own. I couldn't say when he started having a "sex life," though I could probably hazard a guess-like most boys he probably thought he was "ready" to a bit before we had our little talk. This month he'll have been married for three years, is reasonably successful, happy and healthy, and I can't wait for grandkids-well, I can, but I should only have to wait one more year.......


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Not so odd. In some African cultures, daughters were (are?) traditionally "deflowered" by their fathers. Others cultures had customs where, at one time, daughters ritually lost their virginity to chiefs, priests or, sometimes, complete strangers. In India and South America, brides at one time were mechanically deflowered by their mothers-this "prenuptial penetration" was to prepare the daughter for intercourse, and make it more pleasant by getting blood out of the way. One good example of daughters being ritually deflowered by chiefs is in Hawaian and other Polynesian cultures, where daughters were taken to the chief for _'Na ke ali'i e moe mua'_ literally, "For the chief to sleep with her for the first time." Those all seem pretty "odd" to me, and probably to most of you, but they were normal for those cultures-and, one has to remember, there are "cutlures _within _cultures." One shouldn't discount the possibility that this father was repeating for his son what his own father had done for him...
> 
> Morality aside, the chief impediment here, other than the stigma of "purchasing sex," is, of course, that the prostitution was illegal-as someone said, they should have gone to Amsterdam.Some may be shocked by the youth of the kid involved, but there are quite a few of us here in the U.S. who managed to shed our own "bothersome" virginity by that age. Culturally, again, I've known more than one Italian or Greek man in the U.S. who admitted to losing his virginity in much the same fashion as was intended in the article, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that other Italian and Greek American men lost their virginity in just such a fashion: their dad's provided them with a willing, paid, partner-for their birthday, no doubt.....
> 
> ...


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## Rich Parsons (May 17, 2009)

Ceicei said:


> Rest of the article:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idINTRE54E4CT20090515
> 
> It seemed odd that a parent would consider the "taking virginity" from their own child as a gift by using a prostitute.
> ...




As stated by some here, there will be different opinions. 

I respect that people will have different point of views and also different aspects. 


But, if as a culture we have to respect that someone wishes to raise their child with their family morals, which may include such acts or may include raising them in a religion or other conditionals applied.  

If we accept that one side is valid cannot we not accept the other side is valid? 

Many will say no just because it is different from what they believe is "Right". 

Some will say yes, from mutual experience or from an opinion that if it was cultural where do they get off Judging someone else's culture. 

My concern is the legality of the issue. If it is illegal, then it is illegal and the system should handle it. If the system decided to warn the people involved then the system decided to warn them. Change the system form within if the system is not what society desires. 

Now my personal Thoughts? I would not do it. But many of the people I knew who were 14 and freshman in high school were having sex or had sex.


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## Omar B (May 17, 2009)

I really don't see a problem with it.  But then I'm of the mindset that prostitution should be legal.  

Taking the kid to a professional, I think that's pretty cool.


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## Cryozombie (May 17, 2009)

When I was 14 I would have appreciated it, AND I dont think I would have felt raped.

Now in my 30's... I think I still would have appreciated it, but I dont think I missed anything by NOT having that experience.

And thats not me making light of anything.

Now... If ANDY comes to Chicago, I'm taking HIM to a prostitute, and Im not letting him say no. 

And that IS me making light of things.


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## tellner (May 17, 2009)

Coincidentally, there's a very interesting article in Salon that touches on this...



> The virginity fetish Why is our culture so obsessed with girls' chastity? Author Jessica Valenti talks about how purity balls and "barely legal" porn both feed the same idea: That a woman's worth is between her legs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MA-Caver (May 17, 2009)

As one who lost his virginity at 14 I shouldn't complain but the arguments for/against are interesting enough in of by themselves. 

Only a few had called it child rape. Even if paid for it's still underaged sex. Had this been a girl I think there would be a greater outcry on this. But since it's a boy coming into his sexual awakening there doesn't seem to be a big of a problem with it. Funny how that works. 

There is an appropriate age for a young person (boy or girl) to experience their first sexual encounter. It should be at the age when they're a bit more emotionally capable of handling it... if not necessarily (emotionally) experienced. Still at 14 I am now (at 47) realizing that is still too young... seriously. 
Also while with a paid experienced prostitute it can give the wrong impression of sex. In my own personal experience, prostitutes are willing to endure just about any ole thing their johns throw at them. The young man may think... well, give the girl money and she'll have sex. Depending upon his disposition he may get angry at his first refusal. The girl may be highly offended at being offered money in exchange for sex and react in a strong negative manner and turn the young man off or (again) anger him to the point of violence. 
Extremes here of course but given the news that we've read and discussed here before we know it's likely. 
It could also send him in a reverse course and some prostitutes can be rough, verbally or even physically and the young man finds himself un-attracted to women. 
Maybe the awkward fumblings in the back of dad's car aren't the best first time experiences but doing it with someone you THINK you're in love with can make it a (pleasant) and memorable one... it was for me. But I think the time I had in college were better. 

Either way... Culturally things are as they have been. I've an immigrant friend who told me that in Italy it's normal for the brother of the groom (if any) to deflower his bride to ensure that she was indeed a virgin and that she blood spotted sheets were hung out the next morning for all to see as proof of her pre-marital chasity. 

All those various customs mentioned and some that haven't been are still relatively tame compared to the muslim tradition of circumcising females. 

*But the subject is about* *the appropriateness of a father's actions for his young son*. I'm still not a father (yet) and am not wholly sure if I would even encourage such actions. A part of me would advise to wait until marriage and another part would find it hard to be angry if I found out my boy lost his at 15 or 16 or older. At 14...to 16 there would be the long talk but no recriminations, yet no praise for it either. Just an understanding of the seriousness of the chosen course of action. Older than 16... well, a short talk about playing it safe in all regards.


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## myusername (May 17, 2009)

Being a drugs worker I must admit to having some biaised views about this. A lot of my female patients have been or are active sex workers. Most of them come from a history of child sexual abuse and/or are involved in abusive relationships with a male pimping them out. All of them only sex work out of desperation or a desire to self harm. Obviously as they are my patients, the sex workers I know all have drug addictions. They are frequently attacked, raped and abused on the street.

My views are certainly coloured by my experiences of working with these vulnerable people so I apologise if I come over a bit opinionated. But I feel that the issue here is not at what age a young man should lose his virginity but what sort of father is he to teach his son that it is OK to exploit these women's desperate situation for sexual pleasure. He is teaching his son to disrespect and abuse women.

The man did not go to some high class escort agency for his son, he roamed the streets and was prepared to offer £20! He targeted the most vulnerable of sex workers, the ones who stand on street corners in the red light district. Personally, I would not condone his actions if he did go to a high class escort agency as a lot of women are trapped into escort work through human trafficking, but what I am saying is, is that he did not even try and find a sex worker that wasn't being abused.

Disgusting.


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## elder999 (May 17, 2009)

myusername said:


> Being a drugs worker I must admit to having some biaised views about this. A lot of my female patients have been or are active sex workers. Most of them come from a history of child sexual abuse and/or are involved in abusive relationships with a male pimping them out. All of them only sex work out of desperation or a desire to self harm. Obviously as they are my patients, the sex workers I know all have drug addictions. They are frequently attacked, raped and abused on the street.
> 
> My views are certainly coloured by my experiences of working with these vulnerable people so I apologise if I come over a bit opinionated. But I feel that the issue here is not at what age a young man should lose his virginity but what sort of father is he to teach his son that it is OK to exploit these women's desperate situation for sexual pleasure. He is teaching his son to disrespect and abuse women.
> 
> ...


 
So, you touch on a part of my personal philosphy-not necessarily a valid one-and a bit of my own, somewhat more sordid than most would believe, past. Fact of the matter is, I'm of the opinion that every male should have at least one experience of paying for sex-there's a valuable lesson involved, for those that can discern it: _you get *what you pay for.*_. In my past, I've been lucky (?) enough to patronize the "high class escort agency," usually as part of a package deal to Vegas or someplace like that, and often at  the behest of some of my friends-we'd travel someplace for the weekend, and have ready made "dates" waiting for us. Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned: lowest paid most exploited, or high class escort (as in more than $5000 for the weekend back in 1980)* you get what you pay for*......
......and it ain't necessarily _what you want_.


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## Twin Fist (May 17, 2009)

I wish we would wise up and legalize protitution already. take thepimps out of the formula, let women decide for themselves I say


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## MA-Caver (May 17, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> I wish we would wise up and legalize protitution already. take thepimps out of the formula, let women decide for themselves I say


Pimps will usually be "behind the scenes" even if it were legal. Unless the government were to provide protection and the pimps that are ratted out by their girls are given harsh (read: long) sentences then it might save a few. But then gangs are also responsible for a portion of the prostitution that is going on these days... how big of a % they're involved in I don't know but I've seen programs where "sex-workers" are out there via gangs, this includes street and motorcycle types, then you have age old organized crime as well. 

Asking to legalize prostitution is the same as legalizing drugs. IMO it's not the way this country should go.


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## jarrod (May 17, 2009)

a mom who takes her adult virgin son not just to a prostitute, but the bunny ranch, is the best mom ever.  i stand by my statement.

jf


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## Sukerkin (May 18, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Pimps will usually be "behind the scenes" even if it were legal.


 
This is sadly very true. Even in Holland, where the business is a much less 'sordid' affair than it is in many places, it not being against the law, there are still problems with illegal organisations making money from exploiting the girls and women.

That is the sticking point for me i.e. that, if a woman wishes to utilise her assets in such an enterprise, then she should be free to but the criminal elements make such an 'open minded' viewpoint very problematic. I would like to imagine that making something 'legal' would result in the nastiness inherent in the business being lessened but I fear that such a rose-coloured-glasses view would be a false one.

As to the OP, I can see the logic in the fathers mind that lead to the reported story but it was not a sensible thing to do in a country where prostitution is illegal and the boy is also legally underage. Morally I think he was wrong to do so as well but then again I am a straight-laced Englishman .


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## Ramirez (May 18, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned: lowest paid most exploited, or high class escort (as in more than $5000 for the weekend back in 1980)* you get what you pay for*......
> ......and it ain't necessarily _what you want_.



Wow....using a 2.5% inflation rate, that is $10,000 in 2009 dollars. I find it hard to believe you had any experience worth that kind of money.  

 Out of interest, why didn't you just fly to Amsterdam or Rio, it likely would have been cheaper and you could have at least done some tourism while you were there?  I mean real tourism, not sex tourism.


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## stone_dragone (May 18, 2009)

elder999 said:


> On the other hand, in my family I started a little custom whereby I demonstrated condom use for my son (with a banana!!), made sure he had enough of them, taught him that "No' means *"NO"*, and not only that, *STOP!* _usually_ and, that if he did "*STOP*", _the girl would probably try to make it pretty clear when it didn't mean that. _Also told him that there was no rush, even though it probably felt like there was.......



How dare you be a ... what is it called... a GOOD PARENT? By taking responsibility for your son's education and future conduct, you completely invalidate the requirement for an already overtaxed educational system to do what fathers have done for ages.

Well done, sir!


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## elder999 (May 18, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> Wow....using a 2.5% inflation rate, that is $10,000 in 2009 dollars. I find it hard to believe you had any experience worth that kind of money.
> 
> Out of interest, why didn't you just fly to Amsterdam or Rio, it likely would have been cheaper and you could have at least done some tourism while you were there? I mean real tourism, not sex tourism.


 

Well, I didn't pay for it, my hosts did. I wasn't going to Amsterdam or Rio, I was going to Las Vegas to *play poker*, and the girls were....well, for lack of a better word, _furniture_ provided as part of the package.


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## blindsage (May 18, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Had this been a girl I think there would be a greater outcry on this. But since it's a boy coming into his sexual awakening there doesn't seem to be a big of a problem with it. Funny how that works.


Exactly my thought.



> All those various customs mentioned and some that haven't been are still relatively tame compared to the muslim tradition of circumcising females.


Female circumcision is not a Muslim tradition.  It is a cultural tradition in some parts of the world, some of them Muslim.  It is not in the teachings of Islam.


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## Deaf Smith (May 18, 2009)

And tell me, if the son got herpes from the prostitute what would the father say? Or if he contracted Gonorrhea, or syphilis, or worse? All cause he wanted the kid to bust his cherry with a whore?

Or if the kid fell in love with the prostitute.

How sad.

Now there is a lot of free you-know-what-I-mean in the US as well as most of the world, and it&#8217;s not all that common for people, men or women, to wait till marriage for that. But, it's not that bad an idea either.

Deaf


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## Omar B (May 18, 2009)

I'm sure he would have made sure they did it in a safe way with protection.


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## elder999 (May 18, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I'm sure he would have made sure they did it in a safe way with protection.


 

Well, I'm not, but you would think that was part of the "lesson."


.....along with *not* _getting arrested_! :lfao:


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## Gordon Nore (May 18, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> *But the subject is about* *the appropriateness of a father's actions for his young son*. I'm still not a father (yet) and am not wholly sure if I would even encourage such actions. A part of me would advise to wait until marriage and another part would find it hard to be angry if I found out my boy lost his at 15 or 16 or older. At 14...to 16 there would be the long talk but no recriminations, yet no praise for it either. Just an understanding of the seriousness of the chosen course of action. Older than 16... well, a short talk about playing it safe in all regards.



Whether or not dad's actions were appropriate -- and I don't think they were -- the boy is only fourteen. Being a fourteen year old virgin is hardly concerning. I would certainly agree with a parent educating a child about pregnancy, STD, and family expectations by this age, if not sooner.


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## tellner (May 19, 2009)

It's funny when you think about it. 

Most of us here think that martial arts are a great thing to teach to kids. We take them to classes several times a week, cart them to tournaments, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on instruction, costumes and equipment. We're happy that they've perfected hundreds of tactics which would cause death or crippling injury if they were done without restraint; at least that's the fantasy.

Think about it. How many of us regularly smash or slice people into mush with archaic weapons? How many of us get into a couple fights a week? How often do we apply the *specific skills* taught in the dojo? For the overwhelming majority of us not too bloody often. 

Most of us with long term partners have sex a couple times a week. It's how we forge and reinforce our closest life-long connections. Being a good lover in and out of bed is infinitely more important to our happiness and well being than wearing a big ribbon that announces we are qualified to beat people up. We can get the big ribbon at any strip-mall. We're expected to magically figure sex out by trial and error with no instruction beyond a laundry list of all the terrible things that can go wrong. 

Millions for pain. Nothing for pleasure. Praise for someone who teaches kids how to cause suffering and death (under socially approved conditions only, to be sure). But there's no place for teaching young people how to give joy and pleasure. 

It's not just absurd. It's really pretty disgusting when you get right down to it.


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## Makalakumu (May 19, 2009)

tellner said:


> It's funny when you think about it.
> 
> Most of us here think that martial arts are a great thing to teach to kids. We take them to classes several times a week, cart them to tournaments, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on instruction, costumes and equipment. We're happy that they've perfected hundreds of tactics which would cause death or crippling injury if they were done without restraint; at least that's the fantasy.
> 
> ...



I was thinking that same thing.  This is just a cultural hang up.  

I'm really surprised at how many people have come out and said something supportive of this guy.  I think that says that things are changing.

Personally, Tellner, I rather **** then fight any day of the week.  When I can choose to do that in a strip mall and get a fancy trinket for developing my coital skills, I'll consider our society sufficiently reformed.

Yeah, that kind of redefines McDojo!  LOL!!!


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## myusername (May 19, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> I'm really surprised at how many people have come out and said something supportive of this guy.  I think that says that things are changing.



To be completely honest so am I! The difference is that it concerns me, I think that some people on this thread have a hollywood "Pretty Woman" view of sex workers that is far from the reality.

I am not a prude, to me this is not an issue of sex, open mindedness or virginity but to me it is an issue of the growing acceptability of the exploitation of vulnerable women! The women working the streets of the UK are frequently victims of child sexual abuse, have drug addictions, involved in human trafficking and are involved with an abusive male pimp. 

The judge did a great dis-service to justice by not throwing the book at this man.


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## Makalakumu (May 19, 2009)

The sex trade doesn't have to be dirty and criminal.  Legalizing it would bring it out of the darkness and make it safer for everyone.  That said, considering the current conditions, I would not do the same with my children.  It just isn't safe.


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## teekin (May 19, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Well, I didn't pay for it, my hosts did. I wasn't going to Amsterdam or Rio, I was going to Las Vegas to *play poker*, and the girls were....well, for lack of a better word, *furniture* provided as part of the package.



Key word : furniture. Eyes wide open Elder.
 lori


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## elder999 (May 19, 2009)

Grendel308 said:


> Key word : furniture. Eyes wide open Elder.
> lori


 

Well, yeah-it's not my word, but, _as they put it,_ they "came with the suite, like the bed." My eyes_ were_ wide open, and about 30 years younger-that's not an "excuse"; it's a reason.

(they were, after all,_ furnished)_


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## myusername (May 19, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> The sex trade doesn't have to be dirty and criminal.  Legalizing it would bring it out of the darkness and make it safer for everyone.  That said, considering the current conditions, I would not do the same with my children.  It just isn't safe.



I believe this to be a misconception, you will always have an underclass of sex workers even if you were to legalise it. Even if you regulated it you will still get street sex workers working outside of these regulations, you will still get abusive partners/pimps, you will still get human trafficking. A fair degree of these sex workers will still be drug addicts and/or women with a history of being abused as a child. The man in the original story was up to paying a pitiful £20, legal or not that would still be the type of sex worker he would have been targeting.

I agree with the notion of making sex working safer by not criminalising the sex workers themselves. Sex workers need to have access to support, counselling, safe houses and sex worker specific addiction treatment. However, I personally feel that the kerb crawlers, the men out there happily turning a blind eye to the misery of the women they are "buying" and the men pimping these women out should recieve much stronger sentences.


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## Makalakumu (May 19, 2009)

myusername said:


> I believe this to be a misconception, you will always have an underclass of sex workers even if you were to legalise it.



True, but as it stands now, the only place where a person can turn to now to pay for sex is to the shadowy illegal side.  Making it legal would provide a safer option all around.  Yes, there will still be a few turning tricks for drugs, but, in my opinion, there probably would be less.  Some problems will never go away...so we just need to be prepared to support.


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## myusername (May 19, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> True, but as it stands now, the only place where a person can turn to now to pay for sex is to the shadowy illegal side.  Making it legal would provide a safer option all around.  Yes, there will still be a few turning tricks for drugs, but, in my opinion, there probably would be less.  Some problems will never go away...so we just need to be prepared to support.



I will respectably disagree, I believe we may both be coming from a point of care on this issue but my fear is that the legalisation of prostitution will still fail to protect the most vulnerable but at the same time also allow people to consider it acceptable to use sex workers. I personally feel that it would be a shame to allow these men who pay for sex (and our society) to continue to delude themselves and ignore the suffering of the women they are using and abusing. Stronger sentences for the pimps and the men who pay for sex is (in my opinion) a way of changing society's perception of this issue and placing the wellbeing of the sex worker as a priority in each case.


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## arnisador (May 19, 2009)

This story was mentioned in JayLeno's monologue last night...he said leave the kid in school, and let the teachers do their job!


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## tellner (May 19, 2009)

There's a difference between the professional services of a courtesan and unskilled labor provided by werewolf-bait. Always has been. Always will be. I'm more worried about keeping the latter from being raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved than in keeping their professional activities illegal.

When I brought up education in sexuality I was thinking a little more broadly. Not just paying for sex but how to be a good lover including sex-positive instruction in the basics of how to know one's own sexual responses, communicate effectively and take care of a partner's needs, not just in bed but in other parts of the relationship.


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## Tez3 (May 20, 2009)

tellner said:


> There's a difference between the professional services of a courtesan and unskilled labor provided by werewolf-bait. Always has been. Always will be. I'm more worried about keeping the latter from being raped, robbed, murdered and enslaved than in keeping their professional activities illegal.
> 
> When I brought up education in sexuality I was thinking a little more broadly. Not just paying for sex but how to be a good lover including sex-positive instruction in the basics of how to know one's own sexual responses, communicate effectively and take care of a partner's needs, not just in bed but in other parts of the relationship.


 
 From your lips to G-ds ears! Amen!


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