# What would you do it you were me



## Tames D (Apr 29, 2013)

I'm having a big problem here. I have been trying very hard to get over it and walk away. But I can't. I took my boys to the Boy Scout Camporee this weekend.This year the "authorities" made the boys hike into camp doing map orientation to find camp. We dropped them off outside camp at 5:30pm on friday and they were to navigate their way into camp. These boys (patrols) are 12 to 17 years old. My sons patrol (they are 12 years old) arrived at camp at 8:30pm. They were the second to show. At 10:30pm the last patrol marched into camp. Keep in mind there is no adult supervision on this hike into camp

They still had to pitch their tents and set up their campsite before they could cook their dinner. Camp regulations state that lights are out at 10pm and everyone must be in their tent. Well, needless to say that wasn't happening. 

This area has alot of coyotes and there have been bears seen the area. I was worried but didn't want to show it. I'm pissed but have been told not to make a deal out of it. But I think I will. Before I do, any opinions on why I shouldn't? 
I'm really trying to be cool and not make waves with things I don't agree with but this involves my kids. Maybe I'm over reacting. Did I mention that I'm pissed?


----------



## shesulsa (Apr 29, 2013)

Hm. Did each boy strike out on this endeavor alone? Or did they hike to camp in groups?


----------



## shesulsa (Apr 29, 2013)

Our patrol coordinates perimeter monitoring with the local ranger.


----------



## Gnarlie (Apr 29, 2013)

OK, here's my fresh pair of eyes viewpoint: I'm not sure I understand why you are annoyed. Are you annoyed that the children's lives may have been at risk? At what point? On the hike in? Or after they arrived?

Part of being a Scout is learning to take on responsibility. In order to do that realistically, the Scouts need to feel that they are working without supervision. Even covert supervision can spoil the illusion. On similar exercises I did as a child in the UK, there were supervised checkpoints along the hike, but we are talking every 7 or so miles for 30 miles or more. It sounds like the hike in was fairly short anyway if the first group only took a few hours. The question I would have is how late would the 'authorities' have let it get before taking some kind of action, and whether any covert observation was done without the kids knowledge to ensure their safety... Did the group arrive in darkness?

Once the kids are on site, the authorities are there nearby, and it sounds like the rule on lights out is fairly flexible. Getting the tent up and cooking food in the dark is part of the adventure, and from the participants an experience of real consequences of taking a long time to get to the camp. I don't see any reason to be annoyed unless you were one of the other campers and were disturbed by the noise.

Gnarlie


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 29, 2013)

Honestly, why is there a lights out time at a camp? Its not a hotel. Its not a child minding center. Its not a sleepover at a friends. Youre in the b***** wild, you go to bed when you feel like it. Its an artificial consequence. If they were really out spending some time in that place, on there own, there wouldnt be a lights out time. Its totally unnecessary, and serves only to hinder them and needlessly impair them because they were told to go to bed, despite being perfectly capable of doing whatever it is they wanted or needed to do.

However, i dont think letting them hike alone was a 'bad' thing. A few kids could take a coyote if they had the guts. Or run away from a bear. Plus, its not nearly as 'unsafe' as some of the stuff i used to do camping and hunting as a teenager. They need to learn to function on their own, thats a part of what theyre doing. Now, if you dont like that, then remove them from the program. Its that simple. Its like if your kid goes to work in a kitchen, but then you dont want them near any knives.

Note that i may be biased by, as i said, having been camping and hunting quite a bit. If something happened, they could have handled themselves until either help arrived, or they helped each other. The risk is there, of course, but every time you go near another human you risk catching an illness of them. The only difference is, you can actually do something about predators. Especially if youre in a group.


----------



## martial sparrer (Apr 29, 2013)

I think it was a dangerous situation.....I do not think I would have let my kids go.....you have to understand that besides the danger factor period....until a person is over twenty years of age....kids just do stuff and do not know why....their brains just cant do it.....a whole bunch of teenagers in the woods together....wow that could be very bad.....as a teacher and father why would the boy scouts put kids in the forest with no supervision??  blows my mind.....forget this crap of letting them be men and fend for themselves.....I would have told the boy scouts how ridiculous it was before the trip even started.....you really cant trust society anymore.....you cant say well people will behave themselves.....it just doesn't happen.....


----------



## martial sparrer (Apr 29, 2013)

also...plain and simple....you cant take chances with your children.....mine are 2 and 4.....god forbid I have to run inside the house while they are in the car....doors locked....I am usain bolt at that instant.....


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 29, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> I think it was a dangerous situation.....I do not think I would have let my kids go.....you have to understand that besides the danger factor period....until a person is over twenty years of age....kids just do stuff and do not know why....their brains just cant do it.....



Either i was an EXTREMELY mature teenager, or its just me who stopped having that kinda stuff happen when i was around 6-7 years old. 

PS: Actually, id like to hear some examples of this, because ive never, ever even heard of that. Color me skeptical


----------



## granfire (Apr 29, 2013)

Tames D said:


> I'm having a big problem here. I have been trying very hard to get over it and walk away. But I can't. I took my boys to the Boy Scout Camporee this weekend.This year the "authorities" made the boys hike into camp doing map orientation to find camp. We dropped them off outside camp at 5:30pm on friday and they were to navigate their way into camp. These boys (patrols) are 12 to 17 years old. My sons patrol (they are 12 years old) arrived at camp at 8:30pm. They were the second to show. At 10:30pm the last patrol marched into camp. Keep in mind there is no adult supervision on this hike into camp
> 
> They still had to pitch their tents and set up their campsite before they could cook their dinner. Camp regulations state that lights are out at 10pm and everyone must be in their tent. Well, needless to say that wasn't happening.
> 
> ...



Ok, Coyotes do generally not attack humans. Bears, well I am not sure, I am hoping you are talking Black Bears....however, I also think they rather skedaddle than meet a group of people...besides, there were a LOT of people trumping through the forest....I am sure even Yogi done ran for the hills...


Do contact the organizers and such however. Get your info straight from the horse's mouth.

There is this observation I make time and time again that really fascinates me:
You think - with reason - that your kid is incapable of finding his/her butt with both hands and a road map. But as soon as the parent steps back the little stinkers pull out a maturity that blows your mind.

And as you pick them up they turn into complete imbeciles again 

I have seen that with the band kids, as well as with the scouts.

Also, as to lights out and coming in late: There is a valuable lesson to be learned! Lolligag around on the trail, you will sleep in the open and eat cold food! I don't really feel too sorry for them  but I am mean that way. You can bet, next time they will not do the same mistake twice! 

But do contact the people in charge, get the lowdown, etc. but keep your shirt on until you got their side. 
I am pretty sure they had almost all bases covered, since, gosh...organizing anything these days is such a nightmare!


----------



## Tames D (Apr 29, 2013)

shesulsa said:


> Hm. Did each boy strike out on this endeavor alone? Or did they hike to camp in groups?



Groups of about 7


----------



## Dirty Dog (Apr 29, 2013)

Honestly, I think you're overreacting. 
Groups of kids make tons of noise. In the woods, that means they're not even going to *see* a bear or a coyote, let alone be attacked. The critters will be long gone. 
As for lights out... What's the harm in sleeping under the stars?


----------



## Tames D (Apr 29, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> Honestly, why is there a lights out time at a camp? Its not a hotel. Its not a child minding center. Its not a sleepover at a friends. Youre in the b***** wild, you go to bed when you feel like it. Its an artificial consequence. If they were really out spending some time in that place, on there own, there wouldnt be a lights out time. Its totally unnecessary, and serves only to hinder them and needlessly impair them because they were told to go to bed, despite being perfectly capable of doing whatever it is they wanted or needed to do.
> 
> However, i dont think letting them hike alone was a 'bad' thing. A few kids could take a coyote if they had the guts. Or run away from a bear. Plus, its not nearly as 'unsafe' as some of the stuff i used to do camping and hunting as a teenager. They need to learn to function on their own, thats a part of what theyre doing. Now, if you dont like that, then remove them from the program. Its that simple. Its like if your kid goes to work in a kitchen, but then you dont want them near any knives.
> 
> Note that i may be biased by, as i said, having been camping and hunting quite a bit. If something happened, they could have handled themselves until either help arrived, or they helped each other. The risk is there, of course, but every time you go near another human you risk catching an illness of them. The only difference is, you can actually do something about predators. Especially if youre in a group.



Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.

 If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.


----------



## Tames D (Apr 29, 2013)

granfire said:


> Ok, Coyotes do generally not attack humans. Bears, well I am not sure, I am hoping you are talking Black Bears....however, I also think they rather skedaddle than meet a group of people...besides, there were a LOT of people trumping through the forest....I am sure even Yogi done ran for the hills...
> 
> 
> Do contact the organizers and such however. Get your info straight from the horse's mouth.
> ...



Good post Granfire. And your right, coyotes and bears don't normally attack people. and cars don't normally run over kids 
I think I wasn't worried as much about the danger factor as I was ticked off by the lack of organization in getting the kids into camp so they can set up and cook their dinner at a reasonable time. Bcause as you know, they have to do all this and more for themselves at these events. And hey, alot of them are only 12 years old.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 29, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.
> 
> If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.



Oh, of course they need sleep. But lets change the context. You kill a deer, its getting dark. You start to cut it up, then its 10pm. So you leave its body out and go to sleep, because some arbitrary time has rolled round. Of course they need to be regulated, but not if it interferes with their work 

Anyway, i dont have kids. Maybe when i do ill change my tune!


----------



## Xue Sheng (Apr 29, 2013)

I would have answered but I have been accused of (and rightfully so) of being the worlds most over protective dad. I likely would have alrady called in the Marines


----------



## shesulsa (Apr 29, 2013)

My son is 14 and was hiking in with an older group at 12. Orienteering is important and it is very good to have at least a semi-controlled environment to do this in. Our leaders have tight eyes on the whereabouts of boys at night, even if stealthful and secretive or via just plain old outlooks. 

I wouldn't worry TOO much about it. Then again, danger lurks EVERYWHERE. An 18-y/o at our camporee this weekend put an axe into his foot. Been using one for over six years.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## granfire (Apr 29, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Your'e right, it's not a hotel. It's an organized event where rules and regultions apply. Kinda like your job and life in general. I was alot like you when I was growing up, so I understand your thiinking. Not sure if you have kids but my thinking changed when I had my kids.
> 
> If you have ever been in a camp with 400 young scouts, then you might understand the 10pm lights outs rule. The kids need to get some sleep for the 6am wake up call. Very busy day for everyone. I personally don't like going to bed that early but it is what it is.


:lol:
as if they sleep when the lights are off!  Makes them so nice to have when they get back home, after the gear is unpacked! 



Tames D said:


> Good post Granfire. And your right, coyotes and bears don't normally attack people. and cars don't normally run over kids
> I think I wasn't worried as much about the danger factor as I was ticked off by the lack of organization in getting the kids into camp so they can set up and cook their dinner at a reasonable time. Bcause as you know, they have to do all this and more for themselves at these events. And hey, alot of them are only 12 years old.



Yes, a lot of them are only 12. A lot are older.
And almost all of them lead a very sheltered life, without chores, etc or another worry in their lives.

It is good for them to do things for themselves! _GOOD!_ 

Yes, I am a scout mom and volunteer. It's part of the experience to make the little munchkins do for themselves! Because they can. 
They won't when mom or dad hover over them, but will when it's just them. They will help each other, quarrel, but in the end they will get there. And they will have grown as a person! 

12 years is not really that young. we are blessed tat our kids get to be kids for a long time, heck, some don't grow up past their 20s. 
Other kids their age have to provide and support their families, a little hike and pitching a tent and cooking dinner is nothing they can't handle!

Plus they will appreciate the services at home much more, including a nice warm room, soft bed and a meal that isn't burned! 

I did mention, I am mean that way, right?

Repeat after me: Mom/Dad does not work here.

then sit back, and enjoy watching the kids work. best thing ever! 

Last year we sent our boys on a 50 miler. It was in the mid 90s, the trail was paved, mostly out in the sun. 
now, there were adult leaders with them, and they were never but a shout or a phone call away from civilization, but this trip was a B****! Don't get me wrong, they all wanted to quit, I think even the leaders, but even with blisters and sunburn, they all finished! 
At the end of day three, it just happened that the parents piled into the camp and stayed until after dark. Several of the boys became a bit whiny and clunk to mom and dad, but when the parents left, not one boy left with them! 

And some made motions to try it again....but gosh, as committee, while they did 50, we did 150 miles! we were ALL pooped when it was over! 

Those are the events that good campfire stories are made off: Remember the Camporee, when Soandso got us lost and we didn't make camp til 10:30? 

(btw, the poor kids didn't have to walk 50 miles, only 20, the other 30 they did in canoes, much more pleasant than the paved trail! )


----------



## jks9199 (Apr 29, 2013)

Go and talk to them. you have concerns, and you need to have them addressed . But its really not that big a deal, in my opinion. I am assuming that they had the proper training and equipment to make the hike in.

Its pretty basic orienteering assuming they were given the proper tools and training. the only concern I see is that they may not have been given enough time to reasonably cover the ground and set up camp.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Carol (Apr 29, 2013)

It sounds like great experience. 

My first time out after dark, I was hiking in the Presidentials with a few hiking friends, after overstaying our time on the trail.  As we were making our way back to the car, my hiking buddy asked what that blinkinh light was in the distance.  I looked up and saw a light with an orange cast, occasionally flashing.  It seemed to be coming from another peak in the range.  I wondered aloud just who the heck was shining a sodium lamp way out here.    When the sky cleared a bit, we all had a good chuckle over our misperception.  The "sodium lamp" was the rising moon, colored by an autumn haze.  The  "flashing" was from clouds and distant trees temporarily occluding its view as the wind blew. :lol:

Everything in the back country seems bigger, farther, stranger, and even more other-worldly at night.   To be able to keep their wits about them and succeed with breaking trail to camp as the sun sets is a realistic skill that will serve them well.   Its an experience that will carry them a lot farther than the discipline of lights out for that particular night.


----------



## Tames D (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the valuable opinions and advice. I can see now that I overreacted (duh).


----------



## granfire (Apr 30, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Thanks everyone for the valuable opinions and advice. I can see now that I overreacted (duh).



Big hugs, daddy!

Your kids are lucky that you care!


----------



## Tames D (Apr 30, 2013)

granfire said:


> Big hugs, daddy!
> 
> Your kids are lucky that you care!



Don't let them know


----------



## Tames D (Apr 30, 2013)

I think I'm still a little gun shy from the time I took my two kids to the mall for the first time without my wife being along. I think the boys were 3 and 5. I turned arund for a second and my 5 year old was gone. GONE.
The scariest 15 minutes of my life until I saw an Anaheim PD cop and mall security walking my crying son to me. I felt amazing relief followed by the feeling that I was going to spend the day in jail. I'll never forget that hopeless feeling that I was never going to see my son again.


----------



## granfire (Apr 30, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Don't let them know



hey, I am a scout volunteer! I can keep secrets!


----------



## jks9199 (Apr 30, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Thanks everyone for the valuable opinions and advice. I can see now that I overreacted (duh).



You've got a legitimate concern; you need to know that the folks you're entrusting your kids to are going to be responsible, even if the situation is scary to you.  Or maybe especially then...  Talk to them.  Find out how the kids were instructed, and how they were safeguarded.  What was the plan if someone took even longer to get to camp?  Were there adults monitoring them?  Was there a plan to find a group if they got themselves stuck in a circle?  The BSA is pretty good today about requiring plans; years back, we probably winged it a bit more.  

A few more thoughts, 'cause I can...

Twenty, thirty years back when I was a Scout, in my troop, the youths ran most everything, with adults as a safety check to monitor.  I can easily recall the time that one of the patrol leaders came to me after football practice, and told me that the kids entrusted to shop for the backpacking trip that weekend hadn't bothered to do it.  We ended up scrambling to do it, package it, and get everything ready.  But WE did it -- not the Scoutmaster.  Even back then, though, I did see troops where the parents did a whole lot more, and left very little in the kids's hands.  

We did have mistakes, and we learned from them.  Those same two patrol leaders who'd failed to shop disappeared on a trip where some people turned out not to have basic gear and to be prepared for a lot of inclement weather.  That problem got dealt with...  and we instituted a new requirement for a gear check before leaving on a trip.  Then there was the trip where two knuckleheads who didn't really want to be there got "lost" and separated on the trail.  They turned back, and figured they'd just camp near the cars and we'd come back on Sunday...  No.  The Scoutmaster and I walked the majority of the day's hike again, back to the last point we'd seen them, then we spent a fretful night, rerouting the trip to hike out the next day and get a search started.  (Pre-cell phones... we didn't have an option other than going for help the next day.)  That led to some more changes, like everybody meeting up at major trail junctions, and nobody goes on until everyone is accounted for.

But here's the thing -- those experiences taught me a lot about real leadership, and laid the foundation for a lot of my current success.  And they couldn't have happened without having a loose enough leash to let us make some mistakes.  Now, when I train rookies, I have a simple policy:  If what the are doing or want to do isn't unsafe, unethical, illegal, or against policy, I let 'em do it.  Even if it's not the way I'd do it, or if I know that it's not the best way.  That lets them learn...  and sometimes, I'm surprised and they actually do have a good idea!


----------



## Mauthos (May 1, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> I think it was a dangerous situation.....I do not think I would have let my kids go.....you have to understand that besides the danger factor period....until a person is over twenty years of age....kids just do stuff and do not know why....their brains just cant do it.....



Felt I had to post here, as a father I would be worried about my child tramping through a forest without supervision, but in all honesty if they were in big groups I wouldn't be that concerned.  

However, the above quote worries me as if you honestly believe that a person needs to be over twenty before they fully know why they do the things they do then surely that implies people, like myself, who joined the military at 18, didn't really know why they were doing it.  Also you can vote at 18, so again, surely, if you don't understand why you are making these choices until you are twenty, then you shouldn't be voting either.  I think that is a little excessive, some kids have definite ideas of what they want to do and why and can explain it logically and intelligently at ages 13 and below.  Such as making choices on what A-levels they want to take and why etc.


----------



## granfire (May 1, 2013)

Mauthos said:


> Felt I had to post here, as a father I would be worried about my child tramping through a forest without supervision, but in all honesty if they were in big groups I wouldn't be that concerned.
> 
> However, the above quote worries me as if you honestly believe that a person needs to be over twenty before they fully know why they do the things they do then surely that implies people, like myself, who joined the military at 18, didn't really know why they were doing it.  Also you can vote at 18, so again, surely, if you don't understand why you are making these choices until you are twenty, then you shouldn't be voting either.  I think that is a little excessive, some kids have definite ideas of what they want to do and why and can explain it logically and intelligently at ages 13 and below.  Such as making choices on what A-levels they want to take and why etc.



well, yes. 

but no.

As the saying goes: Good choices come from experience, experience come from bad choices.

I think we tend to baby our kids, assume they can't, so we don't let them, thus they really can't.

Then, when they turn 20, they are supposed to be magically mature enough to function well.

Scouts is one of the few remaining places were kids are encouraged to do more than they think they can.


----------



## SahBumNimRush (May 1, 2013)

Tames D said:


> Good post Granfire. And your right, coyotes and bears don't normally attack people. and cars don't normally run over kids
> I think I wasn't worried as much about the danger factor as I was ticked off by the lack of organization in getting the kids into camp so they can set up and cook their dinner at a reasonable time. Bcause as you know, they have to do all this and more for themselves at these events. And hey, alot of them are only 12 years old.



While I can understand your irritation, as I understand it, being a scout is about personal responsibility.  Setting up a tent and then cooking your dinner, even if it is 10 pm, isn't going to harm the children.  As stated previously, it's part of the adventure, and the dinner tastes that much better after accomplishing something like this!

I wasn't aloud to be in scouts, but I grew up in the sticks.  My dad would take me out as a child and teach me to live off the land.  When I was 10 years old, dad took me out into the woods, with 1 match, a knife, and a blanket, in January with about 2 feet of snow.  He left me there for the weekend.  Granted I was still on the family farm, and could hike back to the house at anytime, but it was an adventure!  How long could I stay out there?  Could I build myself shelter?  Could I forage for food?  Stay dry?  Build a fire and stay warm?  

I absolutely loved it!  IMHO, if you've instilled the appropriate level of responsibility in your child, they will exceed your expectations.  

If not? Well, remember Lord of the Flies.. .


----------



## Cyriacus (May 1, 2013)

SahBumNimRush said:


> While I can understand your irritation, as I understand it, being a scout is about personal responsibility.  Setting up a tent and then cooking your dinner, even if it is 10 pm, isn't going to harm the children.  As stated previously, it's part of the adventure, and the dinner tastes that much better after accomplishing something like this!
> 
> I wasn't aloud to be in scouts, but I grew up in the sticks.  My dad would take me out as a child and teach me to live off the land.  When I was 10 years old, dad took me out into the woods, with 1 match, a knife, and a blanket, in January with about 2 feet of snow.  He left me there for the weekend.  Granted I was still on the family farm, and could hike back to the house at anytime, but it was an adventure!  How long could I stay out there?  Could I build myself shelter?  Could I forage for food?  Stay dry?  Build a fire and stay warm?
> 
> ...



Stop making me want to take a week off work and go camping...


----------



## Carol (May 1, 2013)

SahBumNimRush said:


> While I can understand your irritation, as I understand it, being a scout is about personal responsibility.  Setting up a tent and then cooking your dinner, even if it is 10 pm, isn't going to harm the children.  As stated previously, it's part of the adventure, and the dinner tastes that much better after accomplishing something like this!



Setting up a tent and cooking dinner at 10pm isn't going to harm the children, but being out in the back country without sufficient food or water can harm anyone, of any age.   I'm not saying that's what happened to Tames' kids, but its a mistake that happens all too often.

I don't think this was an overreaction on Tames part, just some concerns that may not have been clearly addressed, which can happen...esp. in a volunteer environment.


----------



## SahBumNimRush (May 1, 2013)

Carol said:


> Setting up a tent and cooking dinner at 10pm isn't going to harm the children, but being out in the back country without sufficient food or water can harm anyone, of any age.   I'm not saying that's what happened to Tames' kids, but its a mistake that happens all too often.
> 
> I don't think this was an overreaction on Tames part, just some concerns that may not have been clearly addressed, which can happen...esp. in a volunteer environment.



I agree, and if I were Tames, I would want to know the circumstances as well. i.e. what is the distance covered, what is the safety/monitoring/supervision protocol, are the scouts properly equipped and trained for the task, etc.. .  

As long as it is in a somewhat controlled environment and the scouts are properly equipped, I, personally, would have no issue.


----------



## Cyriacus (May 1, 2013)

Incidentally, if i were running the group, id have a small team of adults, preferably well equipped (first aid, communications, and possibly a multipurpose knife), following them from about three hundred meters back. The kids wouldnt even have to know, and if something went awry, help could be there in about a minute.


----------



## SahBumNimRush (May 1, 2013)

This was the firepit/earth oven I built last summer at our camp.  The camp is in the middle of nowhere, but you can get a 4 wheel drive mostly to it, then we have to pack the other 1/2 mile or so in to the site.  Makes it nice that we can bring a lot more gear for a 6 day camping trip.  



















Yes that is a wooden spoon zip tied to a stick.. . Appalachian engineering at its finest


----------



## Tames D (May 1, 2013)

Carol said:


> Setting up a tent and cooking dinner at 10pm isn't going to harm the children, but being out in the back country without sufficient food or water can harm anyone, of any age. I'm not saying that's what happened to Tames' kids, but its a mistake that happens all too often.
> 
> I don't think this was an overreaction on Tames part, just some concerns that may not have been clearly addressed, which can happen...esp. in a volunteer environment.



All the scouts had their 10 essentials and were prepared with map and compass. I really don't think they were in any real danger. Looking back and thinking this whole thing through, I realize my problem really had more to do with me than the circumstances. 

i'm a bit of a control freak, and I didn't have control of a situation that obviously took way to long to complete. I'm not much of a rules and regulations guy but I try hard to adapt to these when necessary. I try to teach my kids to be better than me.

My experience with camp directors at these events is that they are hard nosed about everyone strickly following regulations. And I understand that. They have everyones safety at stake.They have responsibility.
So when things went a little out of whack, I guess I wanted to take it out on the camp director. After all, he should be perfect, right  ?

I learned alot about myself, and don't like what I see. I will improve. 
This really is a great organization and they do care about the safety of our kids and helping them to grow into men that we can be proud of. I need to lighten up


----------



## granfire (May 1, 2013)

SahBumNimRush said:


> This was the firepit/earth oven I built last summer at our camp.  The camp is in the middle of nowhere, but you can get a 4 wheel drive mostly to it, then we have to pack the other 1/2 mile or so in to the site.  Makes it nice that we can bring a lot more gear for a 6 day camping trip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



should you not use leather for that? Plastic does melt in heat, you know! 

(BTW, I am stealing those pictures! )


----------



## Carol (May 1, 2013)

To heck with the pictures, I am stealing the idea for an engineered fire pit spoon 
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Cyriacus (May 1, 2013)

SahBumNimRush, i swear you want me to go camping.



Tames D said:


> All the scouts had their 10 essentials and were prepared with map and compass. I really don't think they were in any real danger. Looking back and thinking this whole thing through, I realize my problem really had more to do with me than the circumstances.
> 
> i'm a bit of a control freak, and I didn't have control of a situation that obviously took way to long to complete. I'm not much of a rules and regulations guy but I try hard to adapt to these when necessary. I try to teach my kids to be better than me.
> 
> ...



Im glad you had that epiphany, but dont forget that theres no harm in thinking the things you did. You dont have to look at those parts of yourself and not like them - Everyone (well, almost everyone) has these concerns. What differs between people is how we react to them, what we do about them, how we handle them, and so forth. 

Hypothetically, if they were my kids, yeah, id be concerned. But i have a point of reference back to my own experiences, and i know that a group like that would be just fine. Even one or two of them on their own would probably be okay with a map and compass, given how close their destination was. Regardless, those thoughts are gonna happen, even though my knowledge and experience knows better. But i wouldnt act on those concerns, however, because knowledge and experience.


----------



## granfire (May 1, 2013)

Carol said:


> To heck with the pictures, I am stealing the idea for an engineered fire pit spoon
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



but use leather, and soak it before you stick it in the fire!


----------



## Cyriacus (May 2, 2013)

If you dont have any leather, you can use a knife to caaarefully cut a 5ish (depending on the length of the spoon) cm hole in the end side of a nice meaty stick, and use a fire to lightly lightly heat it, so it hardens back up. Then just wedge the spoon in.


----------



## Carol (May 2, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> If you dont have any leather, you can use a knife to caaarefully cut a 5ish (depending on the length of the spoon) cm hole in the end side of a nice meaty stick, and use a fire to lightly lightly heat it, so it hardens back up. Then just wedge the spoon in.



Oooh...I was thinking heat-resistant zip ties (I don't have any leather scraps handy)  but I like that idea even better!   Thank you for the excellent idea! :asian:


----------



## Cyriacus (May 2, 2013)

Carol said:


> Oooh...I was thinking heat-resistant zip ties (I don't have any leather scraps handy)  but I like that idea even better!   Thank you for the excellent idea! :asian:



I feel the need to mention that i love and adore bushcraft. I REALLY need to make the time to get out there and do some stuff. Its been quite a while.

Im curious to know how many people on MT would figure me for a camping enthusiast.


----------



## Carol (May 2, 2013)

I'm a bit of a late bloomer.  I didn't start hiking until I was 40.  However, last weekend I became a Trail Steward on Mt. Monadnock, and this weekend I'm planning my first overnight backpacking trip ever.  I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## Cyriacus (May 2, 2013)

Carol said:


> I'm a bit of a late bloomer.  I didn't start hiking until I was 40.  However, last weekend I became a Trail Steward on Mt. Monadnock, and this weekend I'm planning my first overnight backpacking trip ever.  I'm looking forward to it!



Hooray! Eat garlic. Bugs hate it


----------



## SahBumNimRush (May 2, 2013)

granfire said:


> should you not use leather for that? Plastic does melt in heat, you know!
> 
> (BTW, I am stealing those pictures! )



I had to work with what I had.. . Zip ties were all I had at the time, I didn't think I was going to need to make a spoon on a stick before I got there.


----------



## SahBumNimRush (May 2, 2013)

I would like to point out that the spoon was never in the fire, just needed the stick to get the spoon to the dutch oven, and it was too hot in the pit for me to reach with my arms.  HOWEVER, I like the suggestions of wedging the spoon, and I may end up adding some leather strips to my pack.  They could come in mighty handy!


----------



## granfire (May 2, 2013)

SahBumNimRush said:


> I had to work with what I had.. . Zip ties were all I had at the time, I didn't think I was going to need to make a spoon on a stick before I got there.



I just like to pick on you! 

The camp fire pit is impressive.


----------



## Carol (May 2, 2013)

SahBumNimRush said:


> I had to work with what I had.. . Zip ties were all I had at the time, I didn't think I was going to need to make a spoon on a stick before I got there.



It would have been what I had as well.  I carry zip ties with me because they are cheaper (and lighter, and more versatile) than a strap repair kit for my ASR snowshoes.  But now you have me thinking that heat resistant zip ties are the way to go


----------

