# Mihail Ryabko - playing with knives.



## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

I love this guy!

[video]http://youtube.com/#/watch?v=Jqw_yM2sIws&amp;desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJqw  _yM2sIws&amp;gl=GB[/video

Sorry guys, I've posted from my iPad. I'll post again when I get to my computer!  :uhohh:


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

Yes, can't parse it as this!


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## Carol (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm guessing its this?

[yt]Jqw_yM2sIws[/yt]


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm not so sure it's common for people to keep pushing the knife like that...I'd be going around to another angle pretty quickly.


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

Carol said:


> I'm guessing its this?
> 
> [yt]Jqw_yM2sIws[/yt]


Thank you Carol.    :high5:


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I'm not so sure it's common for people to keep pushing the knife like that...I'd be going around to another angle pretty quickly.


Obviously it's not but Mihail is just playing with the guys. I would love to feel it hands on but some of the things he does are just like the stuff my Aikido teacher can do.  I tried to visit Vladimir Vasiliev when I was in Toronto some years back. Unfortunately he has away and none of his people could do the things he does either.    :asian:


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

Aikido is exactly what I was thinking of as I watched it!


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

arnisador said:


> Aikido is exactly what I was thinking of as I watched it!


Have a look at the bit that runs from the 20 to 24 second mark, then try to explain it in rational terms. I know exactly what he's doing because I can do the same thing myself. BTW, there is no pressure on the wrist in that takedown.


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

If the guy stays so very stiff like that, sure.


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

arnisador said:


> If the guy stays so very stiff like that, sure.


Actually, he can't move. He has lost his centre, and Mihail does it time after time.


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

I meant his arm--if he relaxed that stiff arm. I've done some aikido and recognize the effectiveness, but looking at that particular spot, it seems to me that after initially being unbalanced he makes it worse by still pushing up with the arm.


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

arnisador said:


> I meant his arm--if he relaxed that stiff arm. I've done some aikido and recognize the effectiveness, but looking at that particular spot, it seems to me that after initially being unbalanced he makes it worse by still pushing up with the arm.


If he relaxes the arm he falls because that is the only structure he has left. But, as he pushes Mihail is just absorbing, then he falls anyway. But in the clip at that 20 second mark Mihail does something with his other hand and I was wondering if you had seen that anywhere else.   :asian:


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2013)

If he thought he was using chi power--please! But I've seen aikidoists use such a motion to get the person to move as they wish from flinching.


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

arnisador said:


> If he thought he was using chi power--please! But I've seen aikidoists use such a motion to get the person to move as they wish from flinching.


Whatever!   :asian:


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## Chris Parker (Feb 9, 2013)

K-man said:


> If he relaxes the arm he falls because that is the only structure he has left. But, as he pushes Mihail is just absorbing, then he falls anyway. *But in the clip at that 20 second mark Mihail does something with his other hand and I was wondering if you had seen that anywhere else.*   :asian:



Hatsumi. 

Take that for what it's worth....


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## K-man (Feb 9, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> Hatsumi.
> 
> Take that for what it's worth....


I understand.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2013)

I've seen it more than a few times with several instructors and have played on the receiving end.  There is a certain timing, sensitivity and movement involved or lack there of but...... here is the kicker it does not work well unless the partner is a student or working with the instructor.  It is not an effective form of self defense or protection but..... it is a neat trick, demonstration or drill! 

Having said the above that takes nothing away for Mr. Ryabko nor his skills or Systema which is a by all accounts a very effective martial system he has by all accounts great sensitivity.  I have seen this in multiple systems by very, very, very skilled practitioners but it is simply not some thing that should make you ohh or awww as it is not something that will work in real life against a determined and resisiting opponent!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2013)

Please if you train in Systema do not take the above as a negative outlook on the system.  I have all the respect in the world for it, the practitioenr's that I personally know in it and of course the head instructor.


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## K-man (Feb 10, 2013)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I've seen it more than a few times with several instructors and have played on the receiving end.  There is a certain timing, sensitivity and movement involved or lack there of but...... here is the kicker it does not work well unless the partner is a student or working with the instructor.  It is not an effective form of self defense or protection but..... it is a neat trick, demonstration or drill!
> 
> Having said the above that takes nothing away for Mr. Ryabko nor his skills or Systema which is a by all accounts a very effective martial system he has by all accounts great sensitivity.  I have seen this in multiple systems by very, very, very skilled practitioners but it is simply not some thing that should make you ohh or awww as it is not something that will work in real life against a determined and resisiting opponent!


So, what you are saying is that if the partner was genuinely trying to resist, that is 'determined and resisting', then that movement would fail? Or, are you saying that the movement would succeed if the partner was a student, even if they were  'determined and resisting', but would fail against an outsider? 
:asian:


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## K-man (Feb 10, 2013)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Please if you train in Systema do not take the above as a negative outlook on the system.  I have all the respect in the world for it, the practitioenr's that I personally know in it and of course the head instructor.


I have limited Systema experience. A couple of my friends are qualified as instructors, but none of the people I have come across can do what Vladamir or, more particularly, Mihail, can do. As a fighting system, I have no doubt as to its effectiveness or reality and I have adopted some of their training into my own.   :asian:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 10, 2013)

What I am saying is that if you have a determined person attacking with a knife you do not want to do this.  In other words it can work in demonstration with a student who is not really trying to counter it but will not work out in the real world.  Now you can learn some important sensitivity from practicing like this and that could help you out in the moment but when taken in context and continuous movement without moving to serious control or finalizations (ie. finishing moves) it is just a neat trick!


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## K-man (Feb 10, 2013)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> What I am saying is that if you have a determined person attacking with a knife you do not want to do this.  In other words it can work in demonstration with a student who is not really trying to counter it but will not work out in the real world.  Now you can learn some important sensitivity from practicing like this and that could help you out in the moment but when taken in context and continuous movement without moving to serious control or finalizations (ie. finishing moves) it is just a neat trick!


Sorry, I was looking at a principal of softness, rather than the fact that the partner had a knife. There are lots of things that those guys do that should be labeled "don't try this at home".  :asian:


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## Jackal (Mar 12, 2013)

Its just a demo showing how relaxed structure neutralizes strength and how to lead that strength, first to depend on support, and then take it away. Its not supposed to resemble a knife fightjust illustrates a concept.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 12, 2013)

*Exactly*.  It is a demonstration and not to be confused with the real thing!  Nothing wrong with it but that the people watching it need to understand that *this is what it is* and that while the principles will work being demonstrated they will not work if you do not go to control or finalization.  While someone who is a long time martial practitioner can see this many new or even somewhat experienced practitioners cannot.


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## Brian King (Mar 13, 2013)

*Brian R. VanCise* wrote:
_snip_


> "that while the principles will work being demonstrated they will not work if you do not go to control or finalization."



Brian, respectfully I must disagree with the above statement. Fixating on the use of a blade or on 'combat' misses the point of the drill almost entirely. Remembering that for us a knife is merely a useful tool. In this case a tool to help point out and amplify a point that Mikhail is making to the practitioners at the event. The concept being demonstrated works whether you go to control or finalization or not. You can absorb and lead strength with relaxed structure, you can build support, and you can remove support. What is done before, during and after application depends on circumstances and correctness. These are concepts that are practiced and once understood utilized in many different situations. I think that you would agree Brian that it depends entirely on the circumstances, and the how and why the concepts are being applied that would determine the need or correctness for control or finalization, at least that is my opinion. No disrespect intended.

Regards
Brian King


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