# Something I didn't expect



## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

I feel for those of you who run schools and for your instructors.

I know parents can be pills about all sorts of things when it comes to their "perfect little angels."

I never expected a parent to react the way she did.  Mrs. A was (notice was) somewhere between 6th and 4th gup herself - I don't know what her exact rank was.

It was testing/spotlighting night.  Master was out-of-town, so the testing was being conducted by Mr. X, who had just been promoted to Sam Dan.  Mr. X is one of our best instructors.  They're all very good and he is exceptional.  Also, he's one of the kindest and most patient persons you'd ever meet.

The children were testing, and the adults who were scheduled to test after the children creeped up the stairs and quietly assembled.

Mrs. A's son did not pass.  She proceeded to tear into Mr. X.  She cursed at him and she gave him the middle finger.  She insulted him and insinuated that he was not worth his new rank or any black belt at all.  She took off her belt which you never do in public.  Mr. X let her test (that is how kind he is - I would have ripped off her belt but I guess that isn't allowed anyway).  I guarantee you that if Master had been there, he would have taken her belt right then and there.  He is probably the only one allowed to do so I imagine.

During the entire test, Mrs. A never said "yes, sir," she never acknowledged Mr. X nor bowed to him.  She was snotty with her partner during wrist grips and sparring combinations, making sarcastic remarks.

Mrs. A received her stripe because she passed.  She tore it off of her belt and stuck it on another student, saying, "Here, you can have this!"

One of the students was so upset that he ran downstairs and called Master R who was in another state.  Master heard about it before the instructors downstairs heard about it!

Mrs. A and her son (that's the real shame, her son) were expelled immediately.

As students, we were greatly relieved that she was gone.  I don't know what it would have been like to have to stare this woman in the face.  She had disgraced one of our instructors.  How would you deal with that?  Thank goodness, we didn't have to.

One of the senior instructors made announcements the following week to all classes to explain what happened so there wouldn't be gossip flying around, and so we would understand what happened, the results and why.

One thing I don't understand is how someone can go off the deep end like that.  Maybe it was hormones or stress?  But that is no excuse, is it?


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## bydand (Jul 20, 2007)

Out the door she would go without a snowballs chance in Hell of setting foot back in the Dojo, let alone testing and grading.  No excuses for that behavior.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 20, 2007)

Sounds like you have good instructors who put the well being of the school over a few bucks in the bank. But, no. No excuse.


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

This instructor is only 23 or 24, so I think he had exceptional patience.  He could have requested that she leave the building.

I don't know if you can imagine the stress on the students.  It was horrible for the students testing.  Then, later, we were all keyed up and worried that we would have to work with this woman in class because Master wasn't going to be back in town for a few days.

We females didn't know how we would handle it in the locker room.  How would we handle it on the floor when partnered with her?  What about sparring?

Our stress was relieved pretty fast though, when we found she'd been expelled.  We were so relieved that we only mentioned how much we were relieved (the week of the announcements) and we have never talked about it again.

But I assume that Master and the instructors might have spent some stressful hours.

This sort of thing doesn't happen very often does it?


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## Carol (Jul 20, 2007)

It happens.  Some people were raised with an entitlement mindset...that they deserve whatever it is they want.  Unfortuately, some of these people are now parents of their own.

Tragically, there are a lot of instructors that dilute their standards, their belt rank, the very core of their art to make a lowest-common-denominator appeal to as many heads as possible.

Its good to hear that your instructor did the right thing in expelling her.  I hope he continues to make such choices in the future.


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> It happens. Some people were raised with an entitlement mindset...that they deserve whatever it is they want. Unfortuately, some of these people are now parents of their own.
> 
> Tragically, there are a lot of instructors that dilute their standards, their belt rank, the very core of their art to make a lowest-common-denominator appeal to as many heads as possible.
> 
> Its good to hear that your instructor did the right thing in expelling her. I hope he continues to make such choices in the future.


Our Master doesn't put up with any bull, none. A few years back, two teenaged boys, two orange belts, got into an all-out fist fight during sparring.  Master took both of their belts right then and booted them out the door.

The instructor who was verbally attacked is now heading up our other school 45 minutes away. I imagine he will do just fine.


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## HKphooey (Jul 20, 2007)

Parents like that are not needed in the school. I would rather lose the monthly tuition than have the other students experience behavior like that.  I think many of us have experienced this type of thing.


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## stickarts (Jul 20, 2007)

Every few years it seems a parent comes along that I need to "recommend" to find another school. It is never fun for me or a pleasant situation. Even though I know they will not speak well of us when they leave, it is worse for me to keep them and be a negative influence within our school.
Also, I am very protective of our staff and the instructors are not there to take abuse.
Thanks for sharing the story.
Fortunately, the good parents, with us, outweight the bad ones, but you never forget the bad ones!


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## Drac (Jul 20, 2007)

bydand said:


> Out the door she would go without a snowballs chance in Hell of setting foot back in the Dojo, let alone testing and grading. No excuses for that behavior.


 


Bob Hubbard said:


> Sounds like you have good instructors who put the well being of the school over a few bucks in the bank. But, no. No excuse.


 
Now* THAT* sounds like my kind of school and instructors..For the record, you and I are of like minds..As soon as she removed her belt she would have been asked to leave..If her son would not have been in the building she'd have gotten an ear full from me..


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## Jade Tigress (Jul 20, 2007)

That is unbelievable! I truly cannot believe someone would behave in such a way!!! I guess I'm naive. It sounds like you are in a fantastic school with a fantastic instructor.


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## Kacey (Jul 20, 2007)

As an instructor, I feel for the Sam Dan; being new to his rank, and (from your description) younger than the woman who behaved so badly, he did the best he could, and your instructor responded, IMHO, very appropriately.

Sadly, the "soccer parent" mentality exists across all types of activities.  Had your instructor been present, I suspect this person would have been stopped much sooner... and it's quite possible that she wouldn't have started at all had he been there in the first place.  In the long run, however, I suspect it's just as well, because an attitude like that would have come out in some other fashion - probably less open, and thus less actionable, at least in the short term - and caused more damage than a single blow-out, no matter how disturbing it was at the time.


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## shesulsa (Jul 20, 2007)

I agree, the Sam Dan handled it very well.

I can't know all there is to know in this situation because I did not see the tests and can't know what the mom's problem was, but I do understand defending your children - it's a strong instinct and sometimes words can just fly out of our mouths and attitudes from our brains before we take some time to absorb and think.

The possibilities:  They could have promoted the child, let Mom test and not promote her, refused her test pending a discussion of events, asked her to stand up and test her son, or make her take both tests for both of them.  There are many things they could have done with her.  Expulsion is an easy answer and probably well-deserved.

Something for everyone to think about:  You don't make an appointment to test in your school.  You're not given an appointment to test in your school.  _*Every single day in your school is a test*_, heck, every day in life is a test.  Your test for your next rank begins the moment you receive the one you're in.  Your black belt test started the day you first walked in or made the first phone call.  It extends beyond your test date, celebration and certification.  It is either who you are, or who you are not.

And if you feel you can't learn from any one person, then you probably won't learn much from any one person.

Lynn, while this won't happen with everyone, to be sure, it certainly will happen and in varying degrees along different lines.  My advice:  watch, listen and learn.  Ask yourself the tough questions and ... I have to say, I wish I'd had this kind of resource (forums) available to me early in my training.  You'll receive a lot of varied info but will usually notice an underlying tone.  I hope this compliments your training well.

Thanks for posting this!


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm glad to hear your sensei had the integrity to expell the mother.  Many wouldn't have.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 20, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I feel for those of you who run schools and for your instructors.
> 
> I know parents can be pills about all sorts of things when it comes to their "perfect little angels."
> 
> ...


 
I have seen guys/men walk in and state they should be tested for second black when there would be testing for second brown next. They think they are better than someone else for what ever reason. 

In our school we have asked a few to leave or helped them find another school that fit what they were looking. 

If someone had gotten mad at me, I would smile and ask her to sit down. If she continued, I would tell her that in the state I am in that her verbal content is assault, and that if she enters a contact range of me even without making contact, but being angry and having intent she is also opening herself to be charged with battery as well. So, please sit down and or discuss this with the Lead/Head/Master instructor when (s)he gets back. If not then I will call the police. 

Now I do agree that the instructor went above and beyond to test her. Not being his school he probably did what he thought was right to test her and let the senior / owner make the other decisions.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 20, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I feel for those of you who run schools and for your instructors.
> 
> I know parents can be pills about all sorts of things when it comes to their "perfect little angels."
> 
> ...


Sounds like she was raised that way and her kid is doomed to a life of feeling like a victim. Sadly she and her kid need these classes more than you or your fellow students, but they will go through life thinking they did the right thing. God help the kids teacher's in school that don't recognize his laziness as genious. I say don't be mad at them; feel sorry for them. I doubt they will ever be happy.
Sean


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

Not only did the instructor receive receive verbal abuse (and don't forget the middle finger), but all of this took place in front of all of the children and their parents, and the adults ready for testing.  The parent commanded quite an audience.

I think she's about 34 or so, so yes, she was definitely older than the instructor.  I am really impressed with the instructor. Someone mentioned that he probably did what he thought was right in the situation, to test her, and let the Master make the decision.  I think that's exactly what he did.

Our school is a serious martial arts school like your schools are (most people here) with an emphasis on moral integrity, self-discipline and hard work.  So, my mind is boggled how someone can maintain an entitlement mindset through green belt, 6th - 4th gup.  That's at least 10 - 11 months of not-so-easy training for 6th gup.  We take extra classes and/or practice outside of class to pass our tests, to learn our material.

I can see how someone could have a competitive mindset and work hard to achieve higher levels without ever comprehending the Moo Duk Kwan philosophy though, thanks to the entitlement-mindset.  So, when they fail or their kid fails they're totally shocked and it's someone elses fault.

I wasn't sure I should share this information but it was bugging me and needed to get it off of my chest.  Thanks for listening


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## Kacey (Jul 20, 2007)

Sadly, I've seen worse... but that's for horror stories, not here.


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