# Are my Translations correct?



## ngokfei (Oct 17, 2009)

* Tae Geuk Cho Dan      aka       - Kibon 1
    * Tae Geuk E Dan                     aka - Kibon 2
    * Tae Geuk Sam Dan aka                 - Kibon 3
    * Tae Geuk Sa Dan aka                   - Kibon 4 
    * Tae Geuk Oh Dan                   aka - Kibon 5 

Pyung An Hyung                            (Pinan/Henan)

    * Pyung An Cho Dan                 
    * Pyung An E Dan                   
    * Pyung An Sam Dan                 
    * Pyung An Sa Dan                 
    * Pyung An Oh Dan                

- Shipsoo = Jit Te        &#8211; (10 hands)  
- Balsek Dae =        Basai Dai    - (to break/remove a fortress - big)    
- Balsek Sho         =Basai Sho   &#8211; (to break/remove a fortress - small)    
- Chuiki  1-3         =Tekki 1-3    &#8211; (Iron Horse(        
- No Hai =              Rohai &#8211;(bright mirror)       (aka Mekkyo)        
- Wan Shu           =Wansu                         (aka enpi &#8211;swallow flying)        
- Ahm Hak           =Gankaku      &#8211; (rock crane)                          
- Kong San Kun    =Kusanku/Kanku             
- Cha-un =            Ji In            - (kind clouds) or (temple grounds)       
- Ban Woi            =Hang Getsu   - (1/2 moon)
- Oh Ship Sa bo    =Gojushiho     - (54 step)
- Jin Soo             =Chin Te        - (rare hand)
- E Ship Sa Bo      =Ninjushiho    - (24 steps)
- Myong Kyung     =Mekkyo
- Ship Pal =            Jit hatchi       - (18)

thanks for the assist


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## miguksaram (Oct 19, 2009)

Off the bat I can tell you that there is no Taeguk Chodan.  It is Taeguk Il-jang.  Actually you need to replace all the "dan" with "jang".  The taeguk are not equal to Kibon.  Kibon are exercise forms, like takiyoko.


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## ngokfei (Oct 19, 2009)

okay I see what your saying.

Taikyoku is japanese for Tae Geuk

so the Kihon/kibon are the old Shotokan Taikyoku sets 1-3, a 4 & 5 added.

So the palgwe were created to replace these?

How was the translations for the other sets, have a couple of questions on some of them - especially when I looked up the characters given do not translate to what they are generally known as.

thanks


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## MBuzzy (Oct 19, 2009)

I apologize for not having a little more time to do the full translations for you.

First off, let's clarify the kibon question.  The word Kibon simply meaning basic.  That is all, it isn't a set of forms or movements, it is nothing more than the word basic.  Example:  Kibondongchak - basic movements.

The word Taeguk (notice the spelling difference, it is the same word, but the spelling difference is explained by the incongruity between Hangul characters and Roman characters) refers to the unity between yang and um (yin and yang).  Taeguk translates to Taichi in chinese.  The word taikyoku is a Japanese word meaning "first course" or "basic" - so taikyoku is closer to kibon than it is taeguk.  Actually, the Korean flag is known as taegukki in Korean.

As American person (miguksaram)  said, the Taeguk are LIKE taikyoku, they are not equal to, same with kibon.  These are all three different things.  

The taikyoku "set" of forms in Japanese shotokan are equal to a set of forms in Korea known as "Kicho hyung," typically used in Tang Soo Do, although I know that some TKD schools use them as well.  The taeguk forms ARE NOT and have no relation to the taikyoku forms.

The WORD Palgwe is the korean word that describes the union and representation of all 8 basic trigrams when displayed together.  The palgwe forms are the set of forms used by the ITF and the Taeguk forms are used by the WTF.  From what I understand, the history, creation, usage, and difference is a matter of conjecture dictated by politics.  There are some senior TKD practitioners on the board that may have more history details for you.

The idea of calling the forms taeguk was in reference to the Korean idea of um and yang and to the national identify flowing from the taegukki (Korean flag).  The higher forms are all named after historical Korean places, people, or ideas.


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## ngokfei (Oct 19, 2009)

thanks for the assist.   Yeah politics plays alot on this.  Some openly admit the Karate Influence and modifications while others lay the claim that the material is solely Korean Ancestry.

From my research the Kibon(k)[&#51068;&#48376;&#50612;]/kihon(j)[&#12365;&#12411;&#12435;]/geibon gung(cc)-jibeng gong(cm)[&#22522;&#26412;&#21151;] have their roots to the  Shotokan Taikyoku1-3(j)[&#27888;&#27835;]/Tai Gek-Taiji/taichi.(c)[&#22826;&#26997;].

My Taikyoku comes from Shindo-ryu (a shotokan relative) and am just learning the WTF TaeGeuk[&#53468;&#44537;]Poomsae.  IMO they have a strange familiarity to the structure of the Taikyoku's.

Palgwe(k)[&#48156;&#44900;] Hakke [&#12399;&#12387;&#12369;](j), Bat Qua/Ba gwa[&#20843;&#21350;] were at one time taught under the WTF banner as quite a few schools still teach them in conjunction with the newer TaeGeuks.  I know that the WTF has officially said they are no longer in use/recognized.

thanks


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## MBuzzy (Oct 19, 2009)

Out of curiosity, where did you get your words (the hangul, katakana, kanji, hanja) from?  The reason I ask, the site that it came from has the wrong word for Kibon.  The word that they have in hangul is ilponoe.  I'm without my Korean dictionary right now (In Orlando with the family), so I can't tell you what it does mean, unfortunately.  I'm curious to see if the other words match.

Anyway, we deal with the political issues heavily in Soo bahk do/Tang soo do....particularly with our kicho hyung.  They are EXACT copies of the taekyoku forms, but the federation maintains that they were created by the founder of our style.  No skin off of my back, but the taikyoku were the originals.  I assume there are similar issues in the TKD world, although I havent' seen the kibon series of forms that you're talking about.  Do you have videos?  I'd like to see how closely they relate to the taikyoku forms.  

They most certainly are not solely Korean ancestry, in fact, very little within the KMA is.  Even the forms that were created organically in Korea are very strongly reminiscent of Japanese and Chinese forms, with heavy influences from those styles.

I will do some more work on your translations when I get back home to my other resources.  While I can read and translate them, many of these Martial Arts terms require a little more work, since some are based in Hanja.


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