# WTF, ITF, TAGB etc...



## white dragon (Feb 4, 2002)

Hello- 

I'm new to the board and wondered which "style" of TKD people trained under, there seem to be more and more groups of the same martial art opening all the time. Some seem to be for "political" reasons but others seem to be because those that started them wanted to change something about the way their pupils are taught (such as using full/semi contact and patterns). Did anyone pick a certain association when they started training or did you just stummble into the nearest club, unaware of any differences? 

I'm personally a member of a WTF club, this is because it was the first club I came across. I didn't start until my first year of university and wanted to try something new. After speaking to people from different universities I've started to see the difference between WTF, ITF and TAGB. I haven't spoken to anyone from anywhere else. I was happy to continue learning under the WTF system as I liked the fact we trained (not all the time I add!!!) using full contact. It didn't make sense to me to learn a martial art but never take a blow until you're out on the street. We don't punch to the face in comp' but we train with the techniques during normal training. 

OK I'm going to stop now as I've gone on for a while now and I can see some of you at the back are already nodding off.....


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## arnisador (Feb 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *I'm new to the board and wondered which "style" of TKD people trained under, there seem to be more and more groups of the same martial art opening all the time.*



To what extent are these groups considered separate styles as opposed to separate organizations?

If you're new to the board, consider posting about your experience here.


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## white dragon (Feb 5, 2002)

"organizations" is a much better way of putting it. The basics all seem to be very similar, but the patterns seem to be the main difference...

thanks for the link however, I'll go and read through the mountains of pages there and add my own little note


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## Cthulhu (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *"organizations" is a much better way of putting it. The basics all seem to be very similar, but the patterns seem to be the main difference...
> *



Having said this, does your club practice the Okinawan-based forms?  The TKD I know could be considered 'old-school' and still practices the Pinans, Naihanchis, and Chinto forms (can't remember the Korean names for them).

This is just out of curiosity, since I've been led to believe that WTF TKD has pretty much dropped those forms in favor of Korean forms.

Cthulhu


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## white dragon (Feb 5, 2002)

To be honest I don't know, but the first pattern we do is called Taegeuk Il Jang Hyung, if that helps you? the 1st Dan pattern is Koryo. does that help you?


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## Cthulhu (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *To be honest I don't know, but the first pattern we do is called Taegeuk Il Jang Hyung, if that helps you? the 1st Dan pattern is Koryo. does that help you? *



Actually, this does, thanks!  I *think* the Okinawan forms are called Pyung Ahn in Korean, and the Taeguk forms are WTF creations.  Koryo is also a Korean form (hell, it literally means 'Korea'), which the TKD guy I know practices (and has also taught me).  In short, it looks like your club doesn't train the Okinawan forms...at least, from the information you've shared with us so far.

Thanks again, for satisfying my curiosity.

Cthulhu


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## white dragon (Feb 5, 2002)

Well I'm glad I could help  How long have you been/did you do tkd for?


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## Cthulhu (Feb 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *Well I'm glad I could help  How long have you been/did you do tkd for? *



I've never formally trained in TKD.  The guy I've trained with runs the martial arts program at the university I attended.  He's had boxing, kickboxing, and karate training, so the class isn't like a traditional TKD class.  The only purely Korean form he's shown anybody is Koryo, and as far as I know, he's only taught it to me.  During the semester he teaches the college students the Pinan forms, as well as some less-than-traditional 'fighting forms' taught to him by his teacher.

Cthulhu


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## warder (Feb 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *To be honest I don't know, but the first pattern we do is called Taegeuk Il Jang Hyung, if that helps you? the 1st Dan pattern is Koryo. does that help you? *



White Dragon, these are the exact forms we do at my school in N.Y. The style we study is korean TKD. It is hybrid style called Kwok Wu Cheun. This system was founded by our head instructor, based on his TKD training and the various other styles he studied. Right now he has 3 schools teaching this type of tkd in the western NY area.  We work alot on competition tkd sparring, and alot of self defense techniques from other martial styles as well as using TKD for self defense.   This is the only TKD school Ive trained at before, so this is all I know of what is offerd in different schools and different types of TKD. seems like me and you are on the same path, just on different continents..


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## white dragon (Feb 6, 2002)

Warder -

It does indeed sound very much like we're on the same path!  Our instructor has been training in TKD for many many years now but has also trained in forms of kung fu along with other forms of martial arts and has no problem with taking what he thinks works and teaching that to us. this includes floor work and some weapon work that some of the more "traditional" schools I've seen stay away from. 

Do you happen to have a website for your club? I ask because *raises an eyebrow as his motives are revealed* I'm our clubs secretary and we were hoping to take the club to Korea to train this summer. Sadly this isn't going happen as the world cup is taking place and prices have shot up. However we were thinking of going to America instead if we could find a club there to train with and maybe take part in a competition or two......

I'm currently putting together a website for our university club, I've stuck up a test version at: 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cullen1138/tkd/ 

there's not much there at the moment (no gallery section) but there's a but about the club including our instructors.


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## warder (Feb 6, 2002)

We rarely work with weapons until  you reach your red belt. I know for a 2nd dan test you have to master a certain weapon. my teacher, like yours it seems, has added kung fu forms into are training to, as the belt levels advance.  we dont have a web page yet, which is wierd because the school has been open for over 16yrs. I guess the technological revolution passed them by. We have had students compete in the UK before at the UK TKD open Championmship in 1998. Before my time though. We had planned a trip to mylasia this year for 2 weeks of training and competition at a sister school we have there. That was cancelled do to sept 11th,  we were scheduled to leave shortly after and alot of people were afraid to travel. 
what do you mean by floor work? .


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## white dragon (Feb 7, 2002)

Sorry I should point out that we don't study an anormous amount of weapons, what we tend to do is have a handful of people stay behind after the regular class to practice. We do teach knife defence to everyone though. 
16 years and no website? Ah well I'll forgive you  How did your students get on at the UK opens? Myself and other members from my club will be opening the UK student open in March, we got a bronze and silver last year, and should do better this year.... I hope!
The results of Sept 11th were also felt by us as the cost of travel insurance shot up dramatically. As for floor work (not sure if that's the correct term) I mean fighting from the floor against someone standing up. Using techniques such as trapping with your legs against theirs, to lock them and force them to the floor, or kick right through etc. And also we do a few things that would no doubt normally be found more in a BJJ class, working with you and you opponent on the floor. This includes things like getting them into arm locks, mounting them (no jokes please!) and getting someone off you.


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## arnisador (Feb 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by white dragon _
> *We do teach knife defence to everyone though.
> *



What kind of techniques do you use? This has been discussed a lot in the Knife Arts forum.


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## white dragon (Feb 10, 2002)

General parrying, arm snapping, kicking the blade out of the attackers hand (although we're advised that this isn't too great a technique outside of a practice situation) . We are also taught that unless you're very happy with the situation that you shouldn't try to attack someone with a knife if they're mugging you. Your life is far move important than the few pounds you may be carrying.


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## TLH3rdDan (Mar 1, 2002)

the WTF has 3 sets of patterns that they use the newest and latest is the taeguk series... then the WTF form set that the olympics use and then the palgwe series which is the oldest and all of these have been updated and changed over the past decade to suite the WTF directors...


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## arnisador (Mar 1, 2002)

How many WTF forms are there all told?


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## TLH3rdDan (Mar 1, 2002)

as far as i know just those three sets for under black belt then they have a set from black belt on but they are not numbered like 1-8 they each have a name like koryo i know is a 1st dan kata after  that im kinda fuzzy


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## white dragon (Mar 1, 2002)

we only learn taeguk patterns in our WTF club and I don't know any other university club that does any different as there are pattern competitions at the BSTF tournament as well as just sparring.... which is next weekend by the way, so wish me luck!


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