# Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood



## MichiganTKD (May 27, 2004)

Is anybody familiar with the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood under Eugene Humesky? If so, what are your thoughts and opinions about this organization? I was first introduced many years ago while attending school, and thought it was a big joke. From what I gather, Humesky claims Master Rank in numerous organizations, WTF and ITF included, and claims membership in many non-TKD organizations. Overall I have a hard time taking any of his claims seriously. Just my humble opinion.


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## Rich Parsons (May 27, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> Is anybody familiar with the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood under Eugene Humesky? If so, what are your thoughts and opinions about this organization? I was first introduced many years ago while attending school, and thought it was a big joke. From what I gather, Humesky claims Master Rank in numerous organizations, WTF and ITF included, and claims membership in many non-TKD organizations. Overall I have a hard time taking any of his claims seriously. Just my humble opinion.




No disrespect, and I do not train in TKD of any style or organization. I do know a few very good TKD practitioners from under Humesky. I have meet the man and he himself was humble. If you take his story at ace value he has been in TKD for a very long time.

Go train with some of top people, and or talk to him yourself. This should help you make a better decision.

 :asian:


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## glad2bhere (May 27, 2004)

I tend to shy away from people who report standing in multiple organizations or multiple arts. It doesn't mean that they CAN'T be all they represent themselves to be, but rather I look at it as a matter of probabilities. What are the "chances" that a person whose practice and/or loyalties are divided is going to provide all that he represents himself to be, ya know?  I would let the advertising slide to one side and take some time to train with the actual person himself. Watch what he does and take your cues from that. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Disco (May 27, 2004)

http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/

Suggest you go to the certification page, read and draw your own conclusions.


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## glad2bhere (May 27, 2004)

Saw the website. Thats quite an organized approach they have to getting certification through various organizations. Who is George I Petrotta? That name sounds familiar. I was also surprised to see something about getting Kukkiwon certification. Isn't is Kukkiwon policy only to certify in-country (Korea)? Beats me. I never COULD keep all this stuff straight. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Disco (May 27, 2004)

Fasten your seat belts and please put your trays in the upright position.

http://www.itbf.de/html/BiographyGMPDP.htm


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## terryl965 (May 27, 2004)

Disco said:
			
		

> Fasten your seat belts and please put your trays in the upright position.
> 
> http://www.itbf.de/html/BiographyGMPDP.htm


Disco this guy is amazing in his fifties and has 25 8th degree's or higher from all this organizations (like i said it is who you know).... God Bless America


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## MichiganTKD (May 27, 2004)

He has almost as many titles before his name as he has ranks. 

Who you associate with says as much about you as anything else. The fact that he is associated with Humesky, and vice versa, speaks volumes about his credibility. The fact that Humesky would let himself be associated with such an obvious talent (major eye roll here) speaks volumes as well.

One of the organizations that Petrotta and Humesky claim membership in is the United States Martial Arts Association. I have been on the USMA website. There are more 10th dans who have founded their own styles than you can count. One that I found interesting is a style called Nel-Son-Ryu (I'm not making this up by the way), founded by a guy named Nelson. Of course he is 10th Dan in this style.

It goes back to what I said on another thread on having rank or certification, real or otherwise, in many different styles and organizations. One 10th Dan takes a lifetime to accomplish. How is two possible?
Anyway, I have met Humesky as well. Personally, I found him rather arrogant and full of himself. It could have been the weight of all those patches on his uniform 

I have been on the UTB website as well. Humesky claims membership in close to 10 different organizations, and claims rank in WTF, ITF, Chang Moo Kwan, and at least one Chinese MA organization. Draw your own conclusions.


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## Jion (May 27, 2004)

Heya Bruce...



			
				glad2bhere said:
			
		

> Saw the website. Thats quite an organized approach they have to getting certification through various organizations. Who is George I Petrotta? That name sounds familiar. I was also surprised to see something about getting Kukkiwon certification. Isn't is Kukkiwon policy only to certify in-country (Korea)? Beats me. I never COULD keep all this stuff straight.


 George Petrotta is a member of the Dojang Digest, so you may have seen his name on a few posts there.  Strange story time now...

 A couple of years ago my instructor was contacted by a woman who was coming to college in this area.  She was WTF, attempting to train for State or Regionals or something like that, and wanted to train with us.  While we are not WTF, we agreed, and her instructor contacted us, and somehow Sungja-do was brought up, and Petrotta's organization.  I think my instructor may have emailed Petrotta a time or two. I emailed Ray Terry to ask about him and his org, and was told that Petrotta was a respected member of the MA community, as well as the Digest, and that was about it.  My instructor did join the ISA, to see what was offered, etc, and I ran across his membership cert the other day - looked like a bad inkjet.

 I've had no real contact with Petrotta or the ISA - the posts of his I can remember from the Digest seem pretty straightforward, nothing untoward.  So don't base any judgments soley on this.


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## MichiganTKD (May 28, 2004)

Bruce,

 The Kukkiwon does not just certify in Korea. My 3rd and 4th Dan Certificates are from the Kukkiwon. My 1st and 2nd Dan Certificates are through Chung Do Kwan.
 The Korea Tae Kwon Do Association (KTA) is the Korean branch of the WTF. That may be what you are thinking of.


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## Rich Parsons (May 28, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> He has almost as many titles before his name as he has ranks.
> 
> Who you associate with says as much about you as anything else. The fact that he is associated with Humesky, and vice versa, speaks volumes about his credibility. The fact that Humesky would let himself be associated with such an obvious talent (major eye roll here) speaks volumes as well.
> 
> ...



MichiganTKD et al,

Is it possible for you or someone else with your Korean Martial Arts connections to do something?

Can you find out if he does have rank in the ITF and WTF and Chang Moo Kwan? 

This is not a defense of Humesky, nor an attack on you MTKD. I just wish to learn more than what is found on these websites, and not make conjectures, yet find out what is verifiable or not. I would just ask that you keep it polite and to the facts you find, no matter how bad it may look.

Thank you everyone for your time and efforts to educate me.

 :asian:


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## MichiganTKD (May 29, 2004)

Rich,

 As per your request, this a list  of credentials I found on the Universal TKD Brotherhood website that Humesky claims:

* PROFESSOR         HUMESKY'S RANKS:*
*   - 7th dan ITF TaeKwon-Do
            - 8th dan WTF Taekwondo
   - 9th         dan Chang Moo Kwan TaeKwonDo
            - 9th dan United States Karate Asso.
            - 9th dan World Ki-Do Federation
            - 9th dan USMAS
            - 10th dan World Chinese Martial Arts Federation
            - Honorary Director Goshin JuJitsu Kai Federation

**Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky has trained under:
            1. Grandmaster Un Yong Kim,
            2. Nam Suk Lee,
            3. Hong Hi Choi,
            4. Sang Kyu Shim
To my knowledge, Dr. Kim is not and never has been a TKD Instructor. He is a sports administrator. 

**MARTIAL         ARTS ASSOCIATIONS:
            - The World Ki-Do Federation
            - The Hosinsul Society
            - The United States Karate Association
            - United States Martial Arts Association
            - World Head of Family Sokeship Council
            - Cloud Forest World Chinese Martial Arts Association
            - Martial Arts Grandmaster International
            - International Tao of the Fist Martial Arts Fraternity
            - The World MooSul Kwan Federation
            - The World MooSul Kwan Federation
            - Modern Arnis
            - The National Sungja Do Association

Again, draw your own conclusions.


 *


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## Han-Mi (May 30, 2004)

Who wants a universal art. I'm sick of people trying to confine martial arts by making it universal, they think of it more as a science. Science has absolute form, and does not change qu9ickly or easily.  Art has no set form, is everchanging and in my oppinion a better way to look at the MA. Just let us evolve and create our own arts. That's one of the greatest things about my school, our instructors, including myself, all have different abillities and ideas. gives a very well rounded view and training of MA. Of course there are the forms and set movements, but they are like our paints and brushes, they start us out, our basics, and then we create the best style for ourselves. That's my oppinion anyway.


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## MichiganTKD (May 31, 2004)

Good point.

What is the point of having, or attempting to have, an organization that tries to embrace all styles and arts? You can't have it all. Kind of like work. You are a doctor, or a lawyer, or a nurse, or a teacher, or a businessman. You can only focus your energy into one area.
Same with Martial Arts. You can't have it all. You cannot practice Korean, Japanese, Filipino, Chinese, and whatever. Each art has its own unique culture and traditions. And you cannot have an organization that combines them all. It can't be done. What would be the purpose? The best way, I think, is to commit to your particular art, learn it, then add to it eventually.
This guy Humesky and his organization is trying to have it all. It cannot be done, nor should it.


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## Rich Parsons (May 31, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> Rich,
> 
> As per your request, this a list  of credentials I found on the Universal TKD Brotherhood website that Humesky claims:
> 
> ...




Sir,

My Conclusions. I do not know. When I meet the man in the late 80's he was humble. When I meet him again later in the late 90's or 2000 he was still humble.

You said he was arrogant, yet you have made arrogant comments here yourself.

You belong to a different organization, and it looks like a hatchet job to me by someone with sour grapes and trying to change the subject from his arrogant opinions. I could be wrong on this. Hence my question for the evidence of rank in those organizations.

Yet, I am keeping an open mind, as I do not know KMA nor TKD.

I asked if you could verify the Korean ranks of the ITF and WTF and CMD.

If you cannot this is fine. Please do not be arrogant and come across as if I cannot read and draw the same conclusion as you.

I have nothing to gain either way.

Therefore once again I ask anyone, to do the research and post it here. I do not have the contacts. I would not know who to contact or how to do so.

Therefore, I am asking if someone can verify the rank in those organizations.

Just that simple. I would like to know. I do not want to here people thinking out loud or bad mouthing. Present me with some evidence.

I agree that the website is questionable in the number of  high ranks. Yet, I would assume cross ranking between the organizations. I cannot speak to this, as I am not in those organizations.

If you cannot or wish not to ask, then please provide me with the contacts, and I will ask.


 :asian:


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## glad2bhere (May 31, 2004)

Dear Nathan: 

".....I've had no real contact with Petrotta or the ISA - the posts of his I can remember from the Digest seem pretty straightforward, nothing untoward. So don't base any judgments soley on this. ...." 

Many thanks. I didn't remember him from the DD but I DO remember getting ISA membership materials some time back and thats where I remember the name from. Thanks again for helping me through my senior moment. A mind truely IS a terrible thing to waste!!  :asian: 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## kwanjang (May 31, 2004)

It is indeed unfortunate that some folks will spout off before they ever take time to know the details of what they spew their garbage about.

GM Humesky is a gentleman in his mid 80s (not 50s), and he has practiced martial arts for longer than most of you have been alive.  In fact, he is STILL practicing and teaching at the University of Michigan where he and his wife Assya are respected faculty or past faculty with Ph.D.s.

The only downfall this great gentleman has is that he believes in the integrity of all martial artists, and he is a collector of martial arts memerobilia.  Hence he is a member of many organizations that are perhaps not living up to what they say.  If it is a fault to believe that martial artists are honorable, I believe it is due to his innocence of what really goes on these days.  He grew up in an era where martial arts and honor were a thing that could not be seperated.  Unfortunately, this is no longer so, and perhaps GM Humesky is a bit behind the times in accepting this sad fact.

As far as certification is concerned, the man's home is like a museum.  He has ALL of his walls covered with newspaper articles, certificates, plaques, and you name it that span a lifetime of no less than seven plus decades of dedication to the arts.  I find it appalling that some of you folks who are still in diapers have the gall to attack such a fine gentleman just because he still believes that all martial artists are honorable and therefore their claims and promises are real.

BTW, his dahn certificate numbers are among the lowest (meaning he was there in the beginning) signed by the very founders of ITF and WTF.  They are as real as real can be.  He is just not a publicity seeker like GM Sell and some of the others who have such high rank; hence, his exploits are not known to many.  Nevertheless, he attained his rank before many people whose rank is readily accepted, because their picture appeared in Tae Kwon Do Times.  To think that this makes their certificate more real is like believing in those who wrote that the world was flat, and that Christopher Columbus was an idiot ready to fall off.

GM Humesky's UTB is HIS attempt to unify ITF and WTF practitioners because he always believed that the two organizations should work together to promote his beloved TKD.  I for one am sad to see that the many students he has trained seem to have forgotten him.  Alas, I have seen people in old folks homes who never even get a visit from their own family members from one year to the next, so this does not surprise me.  Although I never studied with him (I teach Hap Ki Do), I try my best to make sure that this man is not forgotten.  My students and I are very happy to include him and his lovely wife (who speaks no less than eight languages) in our activities, and we visit him at his home (which is always open to any martial artist) as often as we can drive the 7 hrs to get there.

Although I have studied martial arts for 54 years, I spend time with GM Humesky for yet another reason... to LEARN all I can from him.  Even though I have not studied Tae Kwon Do for thirty some years, GM Humesky has a wealth of other things he willingly shares with anyone interested in learning.  I take full advantage of his generosity, and it sure looks like some of you on this forum could learn something about humility and respect from this fine gentleman. 

I have taken time to write this post in his defense, because I know that the man himself would never spend time doing something so worthless of his efforts.  You see, he would much rather spend the time he has left teaching and continuing his work to spread brotherhood among martial artists... yes, even those who belittle him.


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## Rich Parsons (May 31, 2004)

kwanjang said:
			
		

> It is indeed unfortunate that some folks will spout off before they ever take time to know the details of what they spew their garbage about.
> 
> GM Humesky is a gentleman in his mid 80s (not 50s), and he has practiced martial arts for longer than most of you have been alive.  In fact, he is STILL practicing and teaching at the University of Michigan where he and his wife Assya are respected faculty or past faculty with Ph.D.s.
> 
> ...



Rudy,

Thank You for your information. 

I am not questioning this mans honor. I just would like to see it put to rest. This is why I asked for someone to investigate the ranks in the organizations.

Best Regards

 :asian:


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## kwanjang (May 31, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> No disrespect, and I do not train in TKD of any style or organization. I do know a few very good TKD practitioners from under Humesky. I have meet the man and he himself was humble. If you take his story at ace value he has been in TKD for a very long time.
> 
> Go train with some of top people, and or talk to him yourself. This should help you make a better decision.
> 
> :asian:



Hello Rich:
From the above, it is easy to see that YOU meant no disrespect from the onset of this discussion.  In fact, your last sentence is precisely what I talk about.  Others seem to have made comments apparently without having taken your advise to seek him out or train with his people. My hat off to you for giving good advise.


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## terryl965 (May 31, 2004)

Hello Rudy, No disrespect here... I just ask myself how many organizations can one man belong to, now days you have to ask, so many false one's out there, I hope I did not disrespect anybody or hurt anyone..... God Bless America


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## kwanjang (May 31, 2004)

Hello Terry:
GM Humesky tries to work with everyone, as he does truly love Korean martial arts.  His efforts to support others make it seem he is one of those who jump from org to org in order to seek recognition.  In his case, I am confident that he does not need any of the orgs he has joined, it is just his way of trying to help those who run them.  Unfortunately, he is perhaps too trusting.


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## MichiganTKD (May 31, 2004)

*The National Korean Martial Arts Association was created by Grand Master Timmerman in order to provide serious martial artists of all ranks and styles, who for one reason or another lost their link to a legitimate association, with instruction, registration of rank, meaningful certification, and many other highly desirable services. Furthermore, we promise to do so in a timely manner and at an affordable fee.*

Rudy,
So apparently I can join your organization and buy myself a rank. You say it yourself-we accept anyone. So does a prostitute.

If I lose my membership in an organization because I broke the rules or refused to listen to my Instructor, I can join your organization, no questions asked, pay the money, and get my rank bestowed on me. You accuse me of sour grapes? I have no sour grapes. I am interested in integrity, of which your organization could use a little. Traditional martial arts, of which you claim to follow, is about being loyal to one Instructor, following him/her, and earning rank in whatever art you follow. You can only have one father.

I am not interested in doing a hatchet job on Humesky, as you state. What I am interested in is exposing frauds for what they are. Apparently, other members are a little skeptical of Humesky's credentials as well. Sour grapes has nothing to do with it.
Let's look at the facts as Humesky presents them:
8th WTF
8th Dan ITF
8th Dan Chang Moo Kwan
8th or 9th Dan USMA (I've seen the USMA website. Do you really think that many Grandmasters exist?)
10th Dan Chinese Kung Fu (I didn't know Kung Fu awarded Dan ranks)

Any one of these ranks would take a lifetime to earn. How in the world does Humesky claim, with a straight face, to have that many Grandmaster titles?


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 1, 2004)

I'll play devil's advocate here, suspend disbelief, and pretend Humesky does hold the ranks he claims.
He is 8th Dan WTF. Surely a man with his ranking would be active within the WTF as an advisor, going around the world promoting WTF Tae Kwon Do and teaching WTF technique.
He is 8th Dan ITF. See above.
I follow the WTF, Kukkiwon, and ITF enough that if Humesky really had the ranks he claimed, he would be active at WTF events, ITF events, and within the Kukkiwon. Why isn't he? I never hear or see anything about him concerning those three bodies.
He claims 10th Dan in Chinese Kung Fu. Therefore, he must go around the world teaching Kung Fu, promoting it, and be a major force within the Kung Fu community. I never hear about him, he is never profiled in any legitimate Chinese martial arts publications I have ever seen. 
I do, however, see stories of him at USMA events, World Head of Soke events, and various Hall of Fame events. All of these populated by people with questionable credentials as well, claiming to have created their own styles, and most of them self proclaimed 10 Degrees. One of them, Mr. Klaus Shumacher, claims 11th Degree.
Mr. Humesky claims 8th or 9th Dan in the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood. He is also the founder of the UTB. Coincidence? I don't think so.


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## Cthulhu (Jun 1, 2004)

Keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin-


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## glad2bhere (Jun 1, 2004)

Dear MichiganTKD: 

".....So apparently I can join your organization and buy myself a rank. You say it yourself-we accept anyone. So does a prostitute....." 

I would never presume to speak for Rudy or his organization, but I think that there is a telling difference with Rudy and his organization that one does not find in a great many organizations.IMVVHO I believe that Rudy can make the statement that he does in that he is intimately acquainted with all of his members. BY this I mean that there are not the usual scads of members who pay their $$$$ and get their paper as one finds in a number of KMA organizations. Rudy has some pretty high performance standards, and keeps reasonable awareness on where folks are with those standards. No small trick, this. I think I am also safe in saying that Rudy has no problem showing people to the door should they fail to live-up to the standards of the organizations. Now while I can feel safe in making these statements I can also say that knowing human nature, if one were to tell people up front the level of quality control  in the NKMAA I think a lot of people would be daunted and lose out on the warmth, support and intelligence that comes with having someone such as Rudy for a mentor. So, on the one hand I would probably agree that Rudy is pretty accepting, this counter-balanced by some pretty stringent quality control. Hope this makes sense. 

BTW: For what it is worth, I am NOT a member of the NKMAA. I have sent a formal letter to Rudy in this regard about 6 weeks ago and fully expect he will be responding as soon as time and resources allow. In the meantime I just wanted you to know that my response hides no "organizational agenda".

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 1, 2004)

Understood. From what I have gathered on Rudy's website, he is active within the Hapkido community. Therefore, it is not surprising you would have an opportunity to contact him.
No sense beating a dead horse. I believe I have conveyed my opinions adequately.


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## ipscshooter (Jun 1, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> MichiganTKD et al,
> 
> Can you find out if he does have rank in the ITF and WTF and Chang Moo Kwan?
> 
> :asian:


There used to be a website listing ITF Masters and Grandmasters. It has since been taken down; but, I saw the list quoted in a discussion thread on this site, entitled "TKD Help", from a discussion in April 2002. GM Humetsky is not listed in that thread as an ITF Master or Grandmaster. That is not to say that he doesn't hold the rank. Perhaps he just decided not to pay the necessary fees to be listed.


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## kwanjang (Jun 1, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> *The National Korean Martial Arts Association was created by Grand Master Timmerman in order to provide serious martial artists of all ranks and styles, who for one reason or another lost their link to a legitimate association, with instruction, registration of rank, meaningful certification, and many other highly desirable services. Furthermore, we promise to do so in a timely manner and at an affordable fee.*
> 
> Rudy,
> So apparently I can join your organization and buy myself a rank. You say it yourself-we accept anyone. So does a prostitute.



I just took the time to read the NKMAA quote you placed in your post, and I see nowhere that I sell rank or accept anyone.  Your reading skills are only surpassed by your lack of etiquette and boorish behavior.


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## kwanjang (Jun 1, 2004)

glad2bhere said:
			
		

> BTW: For what it is worth, I am NOT a member of the NKMAA. I have sent a formal letter to Rudy in this regard about 6 weeks ago and fully expect he will be responding as soon as time and resources allow. In the meantime I just wanted you to know that my response hides no "organizational agenda".
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Bruce



Hello Bruce:
I have not received any letter, just so you know that my "timely manner" is often hampered by our postal services

FWIW.
Master Humesky's ITF and WTF certificates are proudly displayed on the wall of his home, and as I said his home is open to any martial artists who has at least an inkling of class and commonly found martial art respect.  No need to do extensive searches, just go see the man.  If these organizations awarded their certification to an unworthy person (IMHO that is a laugh in the case of GM Humesky), it is THEIR problem.


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## Kodanjaclay (Jun 1, 2004)

I am going to re-iterate what the other esteemed moderator said. Simply because you may not agree with something, or care for something does not give cause to attack it here. Comparing any art, or organization, to a prostitute is uncalled for, and inappropriate behavior for one who is following a martial discipline, with emphasis on discipline.


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 2, 2004)

Again, not to beat a dead horse here, but believe me, I've heard master instructors refer to organizations and schools in terms worse than the terms I use. If "prostitute" is the worst word I used, I don't really see a problem. But again, I have conveyed my opinion and shall let it rest.

One question: Why does Humesky have others defend him? Can he not defend himself?


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 2, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> Again, not to beat a dead horse here, but believe me, I've heard master instructors refer to organizations and schools in terms worse than the terms I use. If "prostitute" is the worst word I used, I don't really see a problem. But again, I have conveyed my opinion and shall let it rest.
> 
> One question: Why does Humesky have others defend him? Can he not defend himself?



As to prostitute. I could say you are a cheap little keyboard warrior who also sells rank. Why because you are in TKD. This means you are nothing more than a Prostitute. Now this would do nothing but get you angry. So, do not justify it however you think it to be correct.

As to defending. He is 80+ something, from the info given here. I was asking for more details.

*Is there something wrong to ask the KMA people for more details?*

Or do they just prefer to bash other people? From your posts you talk about how good TKD is. You mention that some people do not do it justice. The couple fo people I knew who trained in TKD, could make it work on the street, and they came from Humesky's organization. Some also would say that these couple were not the norm. 

Than fine, I ask again, can anyone please provide me with a link or phone number or e-mail so I may ask the questions, that it seems the KMA community will not?

We have some who go ohhh too much on the web site. And, I agree it does not look good. We have another who states he knows the person and has a different positive view.

Like I Said I no longer have any contacts into this community. Would anyone like to invite a person from the UTB to join here? I think it would be additional information.

Can someone answer my questions?

Thank You

 :asian:


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## kwanjang (Jun 2, 2004)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Like I Said I no longer have any contacts into this community. Would anyone like to invite a person from the UTB to join here? I think it would be additional information.
> 
> Can someone answer my questions?
> 
> ...



Hello Rich:
I am not a member of UTB, so I can't really say much about the organization.  I met GM Humesky many years ago after one of his students moved and joined one of my schools.  This student was an extraordinary kicker who would not need to take a back seat to Bill Wallace.  He also spoke very highly of GM Humesky, and he took me to see the man.  While most Masters might have been miffed at one of his black belts joining in with another Instructor, GM Humesky encouraged his student to continue training with me and welcomed me with open arms.  To me, this spoke volumes about the man... not often an Instructor will put the needs of a student before his own ego.  In turn, I encouraged the student to continue his relationship with his old mentor.  We both gained.

Over the years, and many consequent visits, I got to know GM Humesky better; hence, I felt compelled to share what I knew of the man with you.  I have personally seen his certification from both ITF and WTF, and at least the ITF document was signed by General Choi.  I knew the late General personally, and I am familiar with his signature.  I have no reason to doubt that the WTF document was equally valid.  It seems to me if the founders of these orgs. felt he deserved them, it should be good enough for our keyboard warrior.  Alas, it seems he prefers to take potshots at people, and I for one will not take the bait (as I am sure GM Humesky won't).  In closing, I thank YOU for your patience and genuine interest.  Refreshing. :asian:


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## dosandojang (Jun 2, 2004)

This guy has me beat my a billion miles!


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 2, 2004)

I do not get angry at being called a "keyboard warrior" because I know better.  I know my organization, I know my style, and I know my students. Calling me a keyboard warrior affects me not at all because I know I and they have LEGITIMATELY earned everything given. I also know that at our Tae Kwon Do tests, we had REAL judges judging us. Unlike some organizations, our Tae Kwon Do students were not judged by Kuk Sool Won, Hapkido, and other so-called "Masters" who created their own styles and gave themselves inflated titles to make themselves look good to their students. There were no "Supreme Grandmasters", "Chiefmasters", or "Ultimate Supreme Chief Grandmasters" there.

 I attended one of Humesky's classes years ago while at EMU. I must have impressed Humesky enough because he asked me to join his organization with the promise of a 3rd Dan (I was 2nd Dan at the time). He didn't ask me how long I had practiced, or where I practiced.
  After seeing how he ran his class and his students, it was not much of a decision. I would rather wait for a 3rd Dan from my organization that may or may not come, than accept a 3rd Dan from this man that would have no meaning.
 The conclusion I drew from this was that Humesky was a headhunter who, unable to create students with real technique, solid basics, good form, and legitimate credentials, would try to lure students from legitimate organizations with promises of Dan promotion and recognition. I imagine gullible and impatient students from other organizations who really wanted Dan certificates would fall for this.

 Also, when I told him who my Instructor was before class, he became very self righteous and indignant, feeling he had been slighted previously. Apparently he felt offended by my Instructor, but not enough to keep him from asking me to jump ship. Really high class. I'm glad Rudy sees humility in Humesky, because I sure didn't. And believe me, I didn't know the guy. Did not go to his class with the intention of pissing him off.

 Besides, if you're going to call me a "keyboard warrior", what about every other person who uses this forum. Are they "keyboard warriors" too?


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 2, 2004)

MichiganTKD said:
			
		

> . . .
> Besides, if you're going to call me a "keyboard warrior", what about every other person who uses this forum. Are they "keyboard warriors" too?



I said *I could* based upon half information, make those statments. I did not say they were true in all cases. I was looking for more information.

Hence my fourth time I have asked for some how to verify your concern. 

You have state in your post that you do not like the Man. This is good information. It gives perspective. It gives a data point of a conversation you had with him.

You seem upset about his rank, I was trying to get to the bottom of it is all.


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## MichiganTKD (Jun 2, 2004)

I'll be honest. I cannot verify or unverify his ranks, and I have no desire to go to his house to see for myself. Certificates and ranks can be forged and faked.

 However, based on research into the organizations he claims membership with, and based on individuals he claims allegiance with, I find many of his claims exagerated.

 For instance, several of the oragnizations he belongs to are populated by many individuals who claim high rank in styles they founded. Humesky himself claims 9th Dan in the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood. Doesn't that sound at a LITTLE suspicious? Won Kuk Lee, the founder of Chung Do Kwan never claimed 9th Dan in Chung Do Kwan. It was simply the gym he founded.
 On the web sites of the USMA, World Family of Soke, and other sites I have seen that Humesky claims allegiance to, are listed literally dozens of individuals who openly claim to have created their own art and CLAIMED RANK in that art. Isn't it a little fishy when someone claims 10th Dan and proclaims themselves Founder and Grandmaster in that art?

 It is not just that Humesky claims Grandmaster status in at least 8 different styles and organizations, it is also that he associates with individuals who claim the same thing.


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## utb1528 (Apr 7, 2007)

I was shocked and offended to find this post in a yahoo search.  I notice that the original poster has been banned from this forum though.

I know Grandmaster Humesky.  He is an honorable gentleman.

I have seen his certificates and they are real.

Any civil martial artist in the Michigan area can meet with him.  Email me at utb1528@yahoo.com (or check his website www.utbtaekwondo.us) and I will set up a meeting during business hours.


Eric Shepherd


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## Dusty (Apr 7, 2007)

Mr. Sheperd, dont let the opinion of one person skew your view of martial talk. this is an excellent community with many many excellent martial artists. i had my run ins with michigantkd as well be fore he was banned. he was very...um...passionate about his beliefs. Grandmaster Humesky is an awesome martial artist and definately desrves the titles he has. he sat in on my 5th dahn test in november of 05 and i have nothing but excellent things to say about him. also, for awhile, he was listed as an 8th dahn on the itf canada website. i no longer see his name there, but with the constant upheavel going on with all three itf org's, that doesnt surprise me. he does truly desrve his ranks and as Rudy mentioned earlier in the thread, he comes from a time where martial artists were held to a higher standard.
Dusty, kj


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## kuntawguro (Apr 7, 2007)

In Master Humesky's defense, he has been around the Michigan Karate Circuit since forever. I have met the man on many occasions- humble is the word that would describe the man. When I broke into the circuit I was chided by tournament judges for having an improper uniform when I went to compete. Master Humesky came to my defense stating clearly that this was an open Karate tournament- therefor any ANY practitioner from Any martial art was welcome to compete. He pointed out to the judges that no where on my uniform was a Korean flag or a karate emblem- that I was a Filipino  martial arts competitor. by the Philippine Flag on my uniform. Therefor my uniform was correct for my style and for them to get off their high horse and judge me only on my performance. He sat back down and I competed. I did well.  Afterward he appologized for the comments made by the  judges and inqiuired further on my style. At that time 1977 he had already been training under Prof Remy Presas and was knowledgable of Guro Dan Inosanto ( something that no other Karate  type person even knew of). I have respect for the man, by his actions, by his demeanor, and by his prescence among his peers. I do not know his certifications , I do not know his affiliations. But, I know that  since before 1977 he has been an authority in the Michigan Karate Circuit. He is respected by his peers here. I personally don't care for 30 patches on your uniform or silk screened advertising on the backs. But, actions speak louder than words.


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## Miles (Apr 8, 2007)

This was a pretty old thread which got resurrected.  The original post was asking about the organization but the discussion seemed to center around the founder, GM Humesky.

The poster said GM Humesky is not active in WTF events.  That's not true. I have had the pleasure of having lunch with GM Humesky several times over the years at TKD events throughout MI.  I've had the pleasure of meeting with several of GM Humesky's black belts and watching them compete.  They were competent martial artists.

I have a copy of GM Sell's "Blue Book" and there is a photo of a much younger GM Humesky refereeing a match at a tournament.

As far as the high ranks claimed-it is not uncommon for long-time master instructors to be crossed ranked in both Kukkiwon and ITF.  The Publisher of TKD Times mentioned in a recent article that he is 8th dan Kukkiwon though he teaches ITF tul and is an advisor to ITF President Chang Ung.  GM Hee Il Cho has KKW rank and he was a member of the ITF Demo team back in the early 70s.  Chuck Norris holds KKW rank and MDK rank....

BTW, Eric, welcome to MT!

Miles


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## exile (Apr 8, 2007)

Miles said:


> This was a pretty old thread which got resurrected.  The original post was asking about the organization but the discussion seemed to center around the founder, GM Humesky.



This is quite true, and it's important to be kind of careful, I think, in reviving old threads, particularly in the KMA section. There were some periods a few years back when things got kind of unpleasantevery thread seemed to devolve into to a verbal punch-up, and there was a lot of free-floating hostility and tension. The mods did some strong intervention, and things have been much better sinceI saw all this when I was lurking, just working my way through the various threads in chronological order. Many things were said in excessively harsh ways and I think the overall effect was kind of destructive. After the shakeup in the KMA forum, though, it got much more pleasant and the threads became much more fun to read (and probably a lot more fun for the participants). 

My own feeling is, it's probably better to restart interesting-looking topics from scratch (maybe with some pointers to the older threads where appropriate) as new threads than to bring the old ones to life againless likelihood of opening up old wounds or inadvertantly inflicting new ones...


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## kuntawguro (Apr 8, 2007)

Miles, do I know you?
 I am a long time Michigan competitor


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## utb1528 (Apr 8, 2007)

exile said:


> This is quite true, and it's important to be kind of careful, I think, in reviving old threads, particularly in the KMA section. There were some periods a few years back when things got kind of unpleasantevery thread seemed to devolve into to a verbal punch-up, and there was a lot of free-floating hostility and tension. The mods did some strong intervention, and things have been much better sinceI saw all this when I was lurking, just working my way through the various threads in chronological order. Many things were said in excessively harsh ways and I think the overall effect was kind of destructive. After the shakeup in the KMA forum, though, it got much more pleasant and the threads became much more fun to read (and probably a lot more fun for the participants).
> 
> My own feeling is, it's probably better to restart interesting-looking topics from scratch (maybe with some pointers to the older threads where appropriate) as new threads than to bring the old ones to life againless likelihood of opening up old wounds or inadvertantly inflicting new ones...


 

Exile you are right in general.  However, when I did a yahoo search for the "Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood" this thread was near the top of the list of results.  I felt it was unfair to Grandmaster Humesky and the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood for me not to respond with facts.

I also gave the moderators of this site credit for banning the rascal that made the original post.

Respectfully
Eric Shepherd


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## mango.man (Apr 8, 2007)

From post #12 in this thread:



MichiganTKD said:


> *Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky has trained under:*
> *1. Grandmaster Un Yong Kim,*


 
I always chuckle when I see that name.  Is Un Yong Kim still rotting in a South Korean prison cell?

Just curious.  

Sorry if by laughing at Un Yong Kim's name offends Eugene Humesky or his followers.


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## exile (Apr 8, 2007)

utb1528 said:


> Exile you are right in general.  However, when I did a yahoo search for the "Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood" this thread was near the top of the list of results.  I felt it was unfair to Grandmaster Humesky and the Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood for me not to respond with facts.
> 
> I also gave the moderators of this site credit for banning the rascal that made the original post.
> 
> ...



I understand your situation, Eric. Sometimes one really does encounter outrageous stuff in much earlier threads and shakes one's head... if you look around a bit, though, you see that a awful lot of the people who sent these posts are either banned or closed their accounts on their own (presumably in a huff after receiving warnings from admin), because of a general _pattern_ with such users (if you're interested, there's a very good thread in the Admin forum I was just looking at, I think its OP was `Why was this user banned?', which explains the criteria and process in some detail).


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## terryl965 (Apr 8, 2007)

All I know is, he is a very nice gentleman and a well rounded martial artist.
Keep the faith all will be well.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 9, 2007)

I was able to look at Humesky's resume on the class website. He does list Dr. Un Yong Kim as one of his Instructors. Other than being the former President of the WTF, I was unaware that Dr. Kim ever taught TKD or was qualified to do so. My perception is that he was a sports administrator (albeit a very good one). Does this mean that Humesky is lying about who he received training from? Given his position as a University Instructor, lying about your credentials is a serious offense. Academia frowns greatly upon that.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 9, 2007)

I have known Grand Master Humesky for a long, long time.  I started training with him after training with my instructor up to the level right before black belt.  My instructor Jeff Fields was affiliated with Master Humesky and Remy Presas.  In order to progress farther in Tae Kwon Do we had to travel down to Ann Arbor and train with the UTB and under Master Humesky. (so my opinion may be a little biased)

Master Humesky is a one of a kind individual.  Understand that he is Ukranian born and lived during World War II. (he even spent time in a german concentration camp)  He is passionate about knowledge, passionate about Tae Kwon Do and all martial arts for that matter.  I believe he does have any certificate that he has up on his website as his house is literally covered wall to wall with certificates and more.  He is very big on being legit in other people's eyes and that is why he has tried to belong through the years to multiple organizations.  Is that not somewhat ironic given this thread.  Needless to say he is a very humble and respectful man and this thread is sad but what can you say as this stuff is part and parcel with the internet.  He is active still in WTF tournaments and in general open tournaments as well.  He is also 83 years old and a pioneer in the martial arts.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 9, 2007)

Based on the information he presents, wall to wall certificates undoubtably means 
1. Certified in his own organization, basically giving himself rank.
2. Certificates from, shall we say, less than reputable organizations (World Head of Family Sokeship et al.)

He presents himself as 9th Dan Kukkiwon. Does that mean he could walk into the Kukkiwon and everyone would know who he is? Somehow I doubt that.
I'm just using the information he presents as a basis for my opinion. I did have a chance years back to observe a class. His technique left quite a bit to be desired. No power, sub-par basics, weak stances, poor balance. Of course that was just one class. Maybe things ahave improved since then.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2007)

Traditional TKD he does have a 9th Dan through the Chang Moo Kwan.  I have seen that certificate myself.  You must also understand that he is a man of honor and is not lying about anything.  Further, his website is run and maintained by Master George Petrotta.  Master Humesky has little time or care for a website and this one was created by for him. (he is in his 80's) Trust me on this he is legit go see him and talk and he will show you any certificate you choose, just make an appointment.

PS
All of the old Master's know who Master Humesky is!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2007)

The above post is my final post on this matter as this thread is just *ridiculous*!


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

My final thought:

If you have to defend someone, maybe they do have a problem. In 23 years of practicing with my Instructor, I have never had to defend him against anyone. Some fellow Korean Instructors (and American too) have resented him over the years due to his connections and access to power, but they have never questioned his abilities or credentials. Never.
If this Mr. Humesky must be defended against me or anyone else, maybe he is not all that he says he is. Jhoon Rhee and Tae Hi Nam never had to be defended. 
And I'll leave it at that.


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## Dusty (Apr 10, 2007)

i have to agree with Brian on this. Master Humesky is an excellent martial artist, an excellent teacher and an honourable man. his certificate numbers are listed on the website. not that hard to check out.
 that is my last thought on this subject as well.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Don't know who he is, never met him.


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

From Kukkiwon Website:

*Name - Current Poom/Dan - Poom/Dan No. - Date of Issuance 
EUGENE A HUMESKY - 5 Dan - 05025937 - 1977-10-12 *

And don't give me any of this garbage that the site is not up to date, because it is.


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## utb1528 (Apr 10, 2007)

mango.man said:


> From Kukkiwon Website:
> 
> *Name - Current Poom/Dan - Poom/Dan No. - Date of Issuance *
> *EUGENE A HUMESKY - 5 Dan - 05025937 - 1977-10-12 *
> ...


 

Grandmaster Humesky has all his certificate numbers on his website  www.utbtaekwondo.us
I challenge anyone to use those numbers and check with the organizations.  You will see that they are real.

Respectfully
Eric Shepherd


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

I did check out his website to make sure I had my info correct. According to his website, he was issued 9th Dan Honorary by Mr. Uhm. I was unaware the Kukkiwon did that. However, Mango has Kukkiwon info that states Humesky is Kukkiwon 5th Dan, and that it is current info. So if the current KKW info is that Humesky is 5th Dan, but he states honorary 9th Dan from Mr. Uhm (which I highly doubt), which is it?
BTW, I'm NOT trying to disrespect the guy, just get the real facts. Something that is turning out to be very hard to do.


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## utb1528 (Apr 10, 2007)

mango.man said:


> From Kukkiwon Website:
> 
> *Name - Current Poom/Dan - Poom/Dan No. - Date of Issuance *
> *EUGENE A HUMESKY - 5 Dan - 05025937 - 1977-10-12 *
> ...


 
Mango.man
Did you use the year 1977 as Grandmaster Humesky's year of birth?  He is much older than that.

Respectfully
Eric Shepherd


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

No, I think 10-12-1977 refers to the date in which it was issued by the Kukkiwon. I have KKW certificates as well, and they all list the issuance date. Humesky is is his 80's now, and he would most assuredly NOT be born in 1977. That undoubtably refers to the issuance date, if it is accurate.


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

If you don't believe me, than go to the KKW website and check for yourself.

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/index.jsp and click "Check for Poom/Dan" 

Select American for Nationality (Yes, I know he was born in the Ukraine)
Enter his name, including middle initial
Enter his DOB as 211205 (YYMMDD)

Click "Check"

It really is a pretty straight forward and simple way to validate someone's credentials.

If you feel that there is a problem with the information, contact KKW and ask them to correct it.  If they determine the information is not correct they will fix it ASAP.


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## utb1528 (Apr 10, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> The above post is my final post on this matter as this thread is just *ridiculous*!


 
I agree with Brian R. VanCise.  Check out the facts or don't.  It is your decision.

Respectfully
Eric Shepherd


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

I did check out the facts and the *fact* is that KKW says he is a 5th Dan.  But I suppose you can continue to ignore the facts, if that is your way of checking the facts.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Mango,

I did it EXACTLY as you described. I went to the KKW website, clicked on Check for Dan/Poom, and punched in Humesky's info exactly as you listed it. I got no listing for Humesky as a 5th Dan, or any KKW Dan. Ironically, I also typed my own info to make sure I was doing it right. I got a listing for myself as 5th Dan Kukkiwon as I did test last year.
Very suspicious.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Scratch that. I typed in the info incorrectly. Apparently you don't use a period with the MI. Did list him as 5th Dan issued in 1977. However, that doesn't explain his claim to honorary 9th Dan from Mr. Uhm. The 5th Dan I can buy. The honorary 9th Dan I don't.


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

I am not even so concerned about the honorary 9th dan, but what about his 6th 7th and 8th dans that he supposedly achieved in 1980, 87 and 95?  Funny that they don't show up according to KKW.


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## Kacey (Apr 10, 2007)

TraditionalTKD said:


> My final thought:
> 
> If you have to defend someone, maybe they do have a problem.



Why?  Some people need to be defended from those who misrepresent the truth about them, or tell outright lies, for reasons stemming from emotion.  Some don't.



TraditionalTKD said:


> In 23 years of practicing with my Instructor, I have never had to defend him against anyone.



Lucky you.  My instructor (whom I've been with for 20 years) left our previous organization with a group of other seniors because he, and they, felt it was in the best interest of his students (it was) - and the previous organization did their best to black-ball all of us with other organizations, for what they percieved as "disloyalty" (and in the interest of not going off-topic, I'll just say that there was a lot of disloyalty toward their students that led to the split... you reap what you sow)... but nothing they said about any of us was true, and I defended my instructor throughout this time.



TraditionalTKD said:


> Some fellow Korean Instructors (and American too) have resented him over the years due to his connections and access to power, but they have never questioned his abilities or credentials. Never.



Again, lucky you... or it could be that you just aren't aware of what people are saying when you're not around.  Lots of people only say bad things about others when people who might defend them aren't around to hear.  In this instance, I have no way of knowing which it is.



TraditionalTKD said:


> If this Mr. Humesky must be defended against me or anyone else, maybe he is not all that he says he is. Jhoon Rhee and Tae Hi Nam never had to be defended.



Interesting inference, but I find your logic to be faulty.  Just because "a" is true (that Joon Rhee and Tae Hi Nam - pioneers in TKD - don't need defending), it does not necessarily follow that "b" is true (no one who needs defending holds valid credentials).  As a Ch'ang H'on stylist, and former member of the ITF, I'll use Gen. Choi as an example - lots of people had to defend him, or against him - does that mean his credentials, as the founder of a kwan of TKD, are invalid?  Somehow, I don't think so.



TraditionalTKD said:


> And I'll leave it at that.



Hmmm... speaking for myself, I can't see that you've done this... certainly, you keep coming back to beat what appears to me to be a dead horse.:deadhorse  Perhaps you should do as you said you would, and let this one drop.... after all, we don't know _your_ credentials either, any more than you know ours - true?  So given that, why should be believe that your word is truth, any more than you believe what others have said in support of Master Humesky?  And before you ask - no, I have no personal knowledge of him - but neither will I disrespect someone based solely on what is, or is not, available on the internet.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2007)

Anyone who wants to can come over to Master Humesky's house and personally check out any and all certificates and corresponding letter's at any time as I will personally show them to you with Master Humesky present. (*Anytime*)

If you care to continue to *sling mud* and do not take me up on the offer then we all know *who* and *what* you are. 

Personally I think there is an agenda here.........

Truthfully this is what makes the internet sad and sorry when someone can attack at will while not even having the decency to post their individual name, instructor, etc.

By the way Master Humesky needs no defense from myself or anyone else as once again these are simply *ridiculous claims*.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 10, 2007)

TraditionalTKD said:


> My final thought:
> 
> If you have to defend someone, maybe they do have a problem. In 23 years of practicing with my Instructor, I have never had to defend him against anyone. Some fellow Korean Instructors (and American too) have resented him over the years due to his connections and access to power, but they have never questioned his abilities or credentials. Never.
> If this Mr. Humesky must be defended against me or anyone else, maybe he is not all that he says he is. Jhoon Rhee and Tae Hi Nam never had to be defended.
> And I'll leave it at that.



I'm sorry, I have no idea who any of the folks involved here are.  But this piece of logic is downright horrid.

You attack his claims, and then say he must be weak because you are attacking his claims.  If I attack you and your rank and you defend yourself does that make your rank less valid?


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

Ok I must step in here as well Grand Master Kim is an 8th Dan and Traditional and Mango if you do alot of USAT tournament you know GM Kim he is lested as a 8th dan KKW but yet he has all his certificates and letter from the KKW to assure he is an 8th how funny. GM Humseky is a genuine GM by the KKW guideslines if you do not believe it your choice, there have been enough mud slinging overthis matter so leave it be or go over to the man house and see for yourself as per Brian invite,

I have never seen such dis-respect for a true pioneer of TKD then in the last few post, Traditional and mango you are above this type of crap. Please refarm from speaking if you do not mind.

Thank you all from a fellow practitioner of TKD
Terry Stoker


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Anyone who wants to can come over to Master Humesky's house and personally check out any and all certificates and corresponding letter's at any time as I will personally show them to you with Master Humesky present. (*Anytime*)
> 
> If you care to continue to *sling mud* and do not take me up on the offer then we all know *who* and *what* you are.
> 
> ...


 
Perhaps you should invite someone from KKW to view his certificates and validate their authenticity.  Then they can update their website appropriately.  

I however have no interest in flying roughly 2000 miles to Michigan to view documents that I will not be able to determine the anthenticity of therefore I will believe the official word of KKW which is that he is a KKW 5th Dan and nothing more from their perspective.  

As for any other certifications he may have, I do not know how to follow up on those so I won't bother.


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## Dusty (Apr 10, 2007)

Kacey, Andrew, Brian and Master Stoker, very well said. as to why his cert doesnt show up, who knows, but all i can say is whenever i have dealt with him, he is very knowledgable and very respectful. he sat in on my 5th dahn testing in tkd two years ago and he asked me so many questions during the test that it actually made my test two hours longer than what it could have been. am i complaining about that? heck no. i enjoyed being pushed mentally and physically and from what he was asking me to do, this man knew his stuff!!
i felt honoured to have this grandmaster sit in on my test and i look at him as one of the few remaining living legends.
'nuff said!!!
Dusty, kj


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

mango.man said:


> Perhaps you should invite someone from KKW to view his certificates and validate their authenticity. Then they can update their website appropriately.
> 
> I however have no interest in flying roughly 2000 miles to Michigan to view documents that I will not be able to determine the anthenticity of therefore I will believe the official word of KKW which is that he is a KKW 5th Dan and nothing more from their perspective.
> 
> As for any other certifications he may have, I do not know how to follow up on those so I won't bother.


 

mango.man do you believe that a man that has been involved in the TKD community for forty something years and has the respect from al the great GM across this grand country would be a fraud, please he is the real goods and ask your GM about him and I'm sure he will also validate his authenticity in the TKD family.


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Thank you Mango.man.
Nice to know someone believes me, that Mr. Humesky may not be all that he says he is.
Trust me, I have no agenda. I am just trying to jibe what he and his students claim is the truth versus what he actually presents. Why is that wrong? I'm not making things up about him. If I have a hard time correlating what he claims versus what seems to be the truth, it is because I am going by what he presents on his web site versus what is actually verifiable.
As you stated, the facts on the KKW website suggest he is no higher than 5th Dan because there is no record of him achieving anything higher than that. Don't get mad at us for saying that. That is what we uncovered.
As for certificates, having a wall full of certificates is meaningless if the organizations issuing them are questionable. Being certified in the organization you founded doesn't count.
For example, a certificate issued by the World Head of Family Sokeship (which I believe he is a member) is literally not worth the paper it's printed on. All it is is a group of pseudo-masters with inflated egos and titles patting each other on the back. Don't get mad at me, lots of other people have said the same thing.
I respect anybody, regardless of style, who is honest and whose history and credentials can be verified.


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

Traditional TKD why don't you go over and talk to GM humseky you are in his nieghborhood correct, who is your GM. I'am not involved with GMhumseky at all but do know what he is. Does your GM not know him, what does he say about him?
Just curious why this is so important to you and what beering it has on your life?
Terry


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Terry,

It has no bearing on my life other than the fact that I saw the thread for his organization and checked out his website. I was surprised to see that he has about ten honorary 10th Dans in various organizations. 
Just looking for a little honesty. The fact that his organization is relatively close to me and he teaches for my alma mater intrigued me.
I actually did ask my GM about him years ago, and received a response somewhere between disdain and contempt. This is a man who actually is certified 9th dan with the Kukkiwon and communicates often with Woon Kyu Uhm, Chung Do Kwan Head. If Humesky actually was who he says he is, my GM would have given me a very different response I think.
Nothing I lose sleep over though. And I certainly didn't want this to turn into a Humesky-bashing session.


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

TraditionalTKD said:


> Terry,
> 
> It has no bearing on my life other than the fact that I saw the thread for his organization and checked out his website. I was surprised to see that he has about ten honorary 10th Dans in various organizations.
> Just looking for a little honesty. The fact that his organization is relatively close to me and he teaches for my alma mater intrigued me.
> ...


 
Traditional YKD I appreciate all your honesty here and glad to hear you are not trying to bash but find answer to your question. With that being said I wish you the best in your future and maybe one day you can go over and meet GM humseky and and have a long and wonderful talk about the good old days. The man has so much knowledge to share, I wish all could have the same respect you have just showed in your past post.
Thank you
Terry
:asian:


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> mango.man do you believe that a man that has been involved in the TKD community for forty something years and has the respect from al the great GM across this grand country would be a fraud, please he is the real goods and ask your GM about him and I'm sure he will also validate his authenticity in the TKD family.


 
Master Stoker, Nothing shocks me about what people believe or don't believe.  A lot of people once thought that Jim Jones / David Koresh / Marshall Applewhite were the 2nd coming of Christ.

I could ask our school's GM about him, but there again, only these organizations that he claims to hold high rank in can truly validate his rank.  Of those organizations the only one that I personally know how to vailidate was the KKW and I did and it seems nobody likes what I found.

That's cool with me, I don't care if the guy is a 10th gup or a 10th dan.  I am purely an objective point of view with no interest in things either way.  I have never met him, have no intention of meeting him and never even heard of the guy until this thread resurfaced a few days ago.


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

mango.man said:


> Master Stoker, Nothing shocks me about what people believe or don't believe. A lot of people once thought that Jim Jones / David Koresh / Marshall Applewhite were the 2nd coming of Christ.
> 
> I could ask our school's GM about him, but there again, only these organizations that he claims to hold high rank in can truly validate his rank. Of those organizations the only one that I personally know how to vailidate was the KKW and I did and it seems nobody likes what I found.
> 
> That's cool with me, I don't care if the guy is a 10th gup or a 10th dan. I am purely an objective point of view with no interest in things either way. I have never met him, have no intention of meeting him and never even heard of the guy until this thread resurfaced a few days ago.


 

Ok mangoman please call me Terry here I'm kind of funny that way and I'm sure you really did not mean anything but what the truth is. I can appreciate that from anybody. You have always shown respect for everyone here and I'm glad to see it is still that way.
Thank You
Terry
:asian:


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 10, 2007)

Mango.man,

You know the old saying"
"Don't shoot the messenger"


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

TraditionalTKD said:


> Mango.man,
> 
> You know the old saying"
> "Don't shoot the messenger"


 

But all we have is the messanger to shoot:shooter:


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## kuntawguro (Apr 10, 2007)

Funny that Traditional TKD doesn't give any of HIS personal information nor does mango. Something to hide maybe?


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## shesulsa (Apr 10, 2007)

_*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*_

*MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.

This is the First Warning to all users to refrain from fraudbusting attempts effective immediately.

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.  If you see a problem, please use the RTM feature or Ignore feature.  If you do not know how to use the RTM feature, please feel free to post a question in the Support forum or ask a staff member.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator*


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2007)

Through the year's *Master Eugene Humesky* (understand that he is a GrandMaster but I have known him for over around 24 years and he has always been Master Humesky to me) has done an incredible amount of good for many, many people.  He has also sought to be the true embodiement of an honorable martial artist and gone to great length's to have credentials in many organizations and make friends with as many people as possible.  He has sat on literally thousand's of people's tests and many testing boards outside of the UTB/UMAB as well. (Hapkido, Tang Soo Do and more)  He is a walking encyclopedia of martial arts knowledge and a true pursuer of knowledge in the martial arts.  One thing is for sure  that Master Humesky is truly a unique individual and one of the best friends you could possibly ever have.  

Right from his website you can see where UTB students get their rank from : http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/cert.html  Nothing hidden and you can see whose signature will be on their certificates.  He has always posited that to learn Tae Kwon Do one should train and receive ranking in both ITF and WTF and many of his Master Instructor's have done just that. (and yes they recieved their international certifcations even up to and including the seventh Dan's that he has promoted)  Let me point out that Master Humesky has at 86 lived past many of his teacher's particularly Nam Suk Lee (who he was close to) and many other's.  

His student's through the years have competed and won championships and trophies in almost every tournament they have gone to.

This is a man of unimpeachable credentials, a true pioneer in the martial arts especially in Tae Kwon Do.  At 86 he is one of the last of the older Generation of Master's.  

It truly is shameful that many of the younger Tae Kwon Do Master's are out to discredit people who paved the way for their advancement in a Korean Martial Art.  Without these pioneers then their road would have been a much different course.  *Truly a shame and absolutely shameful*.

By the way many of the older Master's are not showing up *at all* on the Kukkiwan website or with incorrect ranking.


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## mango.man (Apr 10, 2007)

kuntawguro said:


> Funny that Traditional TKD doesn't give any of HIS personal information nor does mango. Something to hide maybe?


 
Tell me what you want to know about me and I will tell you.  As long as you are not asking for my SSN, bank account numbers, etc.


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## terryl965 (Apr 10, 2007)

Ok here is my final thought about this matter, he is an honorary 9th appointed by GM Uhm and that is the facts it is still a rank for all he have contributed to the Art of TKD. Over the years he has done mor efor the Art then almost all of us posting about him, if and when we can say we have done what he has then we can have an augrument about who is right or who is wrong until then respect him for his knowledge and then the rank, we all agree knowledge is more important than any rank anyway so for that alone he needs to have our respect.
Thank you all
Terry


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 11, 2007)

Terry,
No disrespect and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I would seriously doubt the honorary 9th Dan thing. As far as I know, the Kukkiwon does not give honorary 9th Dans. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Humesky has a 5th Dan from the Kukkiwon that was issued in 1977. And that's based on going directly to the KKW website-it's verifiable. Anything else is open for debate and question. No Instructor, mine included, should be afraid to have their credentials examined or be offended if their background is called into question. As my GM has said, don't take my word for it. Instructors can lie, credentials can be made up, certificates can be faked. That's one of the reasons why the Kukkiwon exists-so that if someone claims 9th Dan, honorary or otherwise, it can be verified through the body they claim issued it. Keep them honest.
And like Mango.man, I will answer any questions people have about my credentials except personal info. I have nothing to hide. I don't have ten honorary 10th Dans like Mr. Humesky, but I do okay.


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## shesulsa (Apr 11, 2007)

_*ATTENTION ALL USERS - SECOND WARNING:*_

*MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.

This is the Second Warning to all users to refrain from fraudbusting attempts effective immediately.

Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. If you see a problem, please use the RTM feature or Ignore feature. If you do not know how to use the RTM feature, please feel free to post a question in the Support forum or ask a staff member.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator*


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 11, 2007)

Point taken. This discussion is closed.


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## karateboy1023 (Apr 11, 2007)

Fame, fortune, and accomplishments tends to attract social wanna-bees who covet the recognition that they cant earn for themselves. What famous actor, musician, world leader, etc. hasnt been attacked by false accusations and vicious rumors in weak attempts to knock them down? How often is the A+ student loathed by less successful classmates?

Its a shame that "TraditionalTKD" (who to me appears to me to be the same "MichiganTKD" that was banned from this fine web forum for starting all this whole unjustified mud slinging) either has a hidden agenda or just a lot of idle time that he cant find something more productive to do.

I, on the other hand, am too busy to following this trivial nonsense and I refuse to get sucked in to any infantile argument beyond this solitary posting. The only reason for logging on and writing this response is to defend a great man who deserves respect for his lifetime dedication to martial arts. Regardless of what credentials you believe or disbelieve this man to have, Grandmaster Humesky deserves credit for his accomplishments and how he has touched the lives of countless people. Few "masters" in the history of martial arts have so unselfishly given of themselves as he has done in his 86 years on this planet. In my response, I shall present facts that readers can research to uncover the truth. You can then draw your own conclusion and decide whether or not you wish to give an ounce of credit to rumors started under the disguise of anonymity.

First and forthright, Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky has openly listed on his website all of his credentials for the full scrutiny of any naysayers. How many "grandmasters" do you know even have such credentials, let alone freely volunteer the facts as proof to the world? Visit 

http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/grandmaster_eugene_a_humesky_credentials.html. 

On this page he lists SPECIFIC certificate numbers and dates which can and should be checked directly with any of the institutions from which they were issued. Are there a lot of awards? Yes, its to say the least "unbelievable"! But what do you expect from a man who started his training in 1938 and received his first Black Belt in 1959?
Are there organizations listed in his credentials that have questionable legitimacy? Most likely. He was recognized by the entire spectrum of martial arts organizations from the world-wide federations ( I.T.F ,W.T.F, Chang Moo Kwan) to small groups of distinguished (and sometimes not-so-famous) martial artists who banned together to start new organizations. So, some of these small organizations are not known world-wide. Perhaps they are just forming and slowly gaining membership and recognition. Perhaps these organizations are poorly managed and will never grow to large federations, or, they have they have no desire to acquire such proportions (we all know there exists great martial artists in the world who dont have great business minds or no desire to go big). Maybe some of these groups are now defunct and thats why the younger martial artists dont know them. (Sadly, there are some young people alive today who dont know that Paul McCartney belonged to a defunct group call the Beatles.) Does it really matter?!!! All organizations had humble beginnings somewhere in time. ALL styles and organizations were founded by some individual or small group of people. Whos to say what IS and IS NOT a legitimate style or organization? The only way to "legitimatize" anything is to certify it by other individuals and organizations. But, where did those individuals and organizations get their credentials? Its a vicious cycle! 

Through all this rhetoric, one fact stands clear. . . whether or not all his credentials are backed by large "legitimate" organizations, truly few martial artists in the world have been so well recognized by so many people and organizations who were willing to put their names in support of him with their certificates, plaques, titles and other such rewards!

So, you say you tried to look him up on the WTF website? Myself and a few friends have also tried and couldnt get the site to work. TraditionalTKD, Please tell us your name and birth date so we can enter it to verify if the site does indeed really work as you claim it does for your name. So far I havent been able to retrieve any information for any of the famous masters and verifiable KukKiWon Black Belts that I know. In fact, most of the time I couldnt even get the site to work (i.e. selecting the nationality despite disabling the pop-up blocker ). Why dont you just call or write to the WTF personally? What about the ITF too, you didnt even mention them? Perhaps you should do more homework rather than to base all your assumptions on one single source that may not be functioning properly.

Even better, anyone who doubts Grandmaster Humeskys credentials is not only challenged, but openly INVITED to call him or visit his house in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Within the first five minutes you will be assured of the truth behind his myriad martial arts awards and experiences that earned them. His house is the "Planet Hollywood" of martial arts! But, you may claim that certificates can be forged. Well, Im telling you that anyone who sees his house would agree that one would have to be a full time counterfeiter for 20 years or pay out $100,000 to a team a artists to produce the quantity of certificates, awards, photos and other martial arts paraphernalia in his possession! The best part is that at 86 years old, hes not very computer literate. So, this feat would be that much more phenomenal if you follow the theory that he must have drawn all the certificates by hand! And, I couldnt even imagine how he faked his 50+ photo albums that are packed with literally thousands of photos involving him, his students, and his personal instructors. 

Ive known Grandmaster Humesky for over 25 years. In this time Ive seen his collection of awards grow from a single wall in his foyer to the point that its overtaken half his house like a pandemic virus. I was in attendance when he was presented many of these awards so I know they are real. But, dont believe me just because I said so. Instead, call him, visit him, see for yourself. I just confirmed with him before composing this response and he gave explicit permission to post his phone number with this invitation to everyone. (734-971-7040)

When you visit the man, you will find a humble and somewhat frail old man with a big heart and a coarsely accented speech. He will gladly welcome in anyone who shares his love for martial arts and then talk their ears off. I have never known him to turn down the request train anyone who shows good intentions. What you will not find is a man who needs to "defend himself" or his credentials. "A TRUE MASTER NEVER NEEDS TO PROVE ANYTHING" is one of his teachings. Besides, its my personal opinion that he shouldnt have to waste his time stooping to defend himself against the attacks of a single persons accusations when thousands of people in the world have already recognized him.

As a final point, the fact that Grandmaster Humesky has numerous honorary degrees should not discredit him nor his accomplishments in any way. Tell me what famous and accomplished actor/musician/author hasnt been bestowed such honors? At last count I heard Bill Cosby had accumulated 100-120 such titles. (Google "Bill Cosby Honorary Degrees" and you will find 60,000+ references to these.) Is Mr. Cosby a fake too? Do these honorary degrees discredit his accomplishments as an comedian, actor, musician, or philanthropist?

What I have presented are the facts as I see them. Perhaps my perspective is distorted through my personal friendship. Perhaps what I have said is complete rubbish. All I suggest is that anyone who has doubt should do some detailed investigation from multiple reliable sources. Anyone who can add to my testimony is encouraged to do so now as I am much to busy to follow this topic whereever it may be going. I have exhausted all I have to say and I will not be commenting further. Good luck to all of you in discovering the truth!

I am man enough to sign this with my real name:

BRADLEY K. HINTZ, 6th Dan US-ITF. 

Go ahead and research my credentials too and post whatever you want because I really dont care what any one has to say about me. I know who I am and thats all that matters to me and anyone who knows me. 

P.S. If youre wondering about the long break in time between starting martial arts in 1939 and his first Black Belt in 1959, ask him personally. He will gladly recount hours of stories regarding World War II, his escape from a German concentration camp which robbed the life of his entire family, and the struggles of immigrating to the United States without a dollar in his pocket. The man is a living history book of not only of martial arts, but also European and American post-war history. RESPECT HIM AS YOU SHOULD RESPECT ALL WHO HAVE MADE MARTIAL ARTS AND OUR COUNTRY GREAT!


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## TraditionalTKD (Apr 11, 2007)

Bradley,

I did punch in my own name and did everything I was supposed to. I received a confirmation of Kukkiwon 5th Dan. If you would like, I can PM you with the info and you can look it up on the KKW website. Just refrain from attacking me personally. 
Anyway, you accuse me of having an agenda. Truly I have none, just the truth. You seem to have one as well, apparently to defend at all costs. You have your opinion, I have mine. We can leave it at that.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 11, 2007)

I am locking this thread until it is reviewed


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