# what weapon



## firerex (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm not sure what weapon i want to learn first, i want to start with either sword, staff, nunchuk, or sais but dont know which is best, someone please help me


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## terryl965 (Jun 15, 2009)

Ask your instructor which one does he teach and go from there, remember have someone qualify teaching the weapon of choice.


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## Ken Morgan (Jun 15, 2009)

What's your experince? What's nearby? Why do you want to learn weapons?

Explore all your options very carefully. You can learn sword from some very good people and from some not so very good people.


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## firerex (Jun 15, 2009)

my instructor teaches the sword but its mainly a younger class and they dont really get into the form its mainly all about striking and i want more about the weapon and the respect of the weapon not just the strikes, im a 1st degree black belt and i want to have an extra challenge because i have a high respect for those who i see do forms with weapons, its just one of those things i look at and think i want to do that


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## Ken Morgan (Jun 15, 2009)

firerex said:


> my instructor teaches the sword but its mainly a younger class and they dont really get into the form its mainly all about striking and i want more about the weapon and the respect of the weapon not just the strikes, im a 1st degree black belt and i want to have an extra challenge because i have a high respect for those who i see do forms with weapons, its just one of those things i look at and think i want to do that


 

I may be a little bias here, but consider an iaido club that also does some kenjitsu. Quite often we get karate folks coming by to learn the sword from us, then after 6  12 months disappear back to their home club and become the expert swords person there. Maybe throw in some kendo as well. No offense to anyone, but go to a legitimate sword school/club, there are many others that teach a made up sword work, and it looks and feels made up. 

Take a good look around, see whats available in your area.


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## firerex (Jun 15, 2009)

i live near katy texas, i cant find anything in the area that would be good


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## Ken Morgan (Jun 15, 2009)

Sorry, I dont know **** about Texas geography.

You may have to travel and train once or twice a month with an instructor and practice by yourself at home.

These guys are exceptional   http://www.clear-lake-iaido.com/Clear_Lake_Iaido/home.html http://www.dentondojo.com/ 

Heres a list of other clubs from AUSKF http://www.auskf.info/dojo/tx.htm

Hopefully someone nearby.


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## Grenadier (Jun 15, 2009)

firerex said:


> I'm not sure what weapon i want to learn first, i want to start with either sword, staff, nunchuk, or sais but dont know which is best, someone please help me


 
Does your sensei teach a separate kobudo class?  Also, if I may be a bit blunt here, how much does he really know, regarding weapons training?  

You don't need a rank to teach good kobudo (unless you're doing so as an official rep of the system), but formal training by a competent instructor is very important to proper development.  

It wouldn't hurt for you to ask your sensei what his background is.  

I've seen too many people trying to perform kobudo kata according to what they see on Youtube or Google Videos, and they end up looking just plain awful.  They may think that they're copying Oshiro Sensei, or Nishime Sensei, but instead, the end results are their own interpretations on what they *think* is right, rather than being taught what is right.  

Another reason why I suggest live, formal instruction, is because the mechanics involved in swinging these weapons.  Some people see a senior practitioner swinging a bo pretty hard, and try to copy that movement.  Unfortunately, they might not realize, that the senior practitioner is using his body to drive the bo, and uses very little arms.  Instead, the would-be learner tries to swing harder using the arms, and ends up with aching joints.  Not a good thing, since your ligaments and tendons can be fragile things indeed.  




Now, that being said, the bo is going to be the easiest for starters.  It's a very simple weapon, with a known balance point, and the strikes and blocks can also be fairly easy to learn, if done so under competent instruction.  It's also quite plentiful, inexpensive, and doesn't raise any eyebrows from the uninformed masses.  

I would recommend holding off on learning sai or nunchaku, as these are more complex weapons, and it's better to have a good fundamental knowledge of the kobudo system before trying to take on the more complex weapons.  By starting out with the bo, you'll learn good mechanics that will transfer over to the next weapon you learn.  

Think of it this way: I start most new shooters on a .22 LR pistol, because it's easy to learn on, with very little recoil, excellent accuracy, and easy availability of ammo.  Once they learn how to shoot .22 LR's with good mechanics, then they're ready to handle the more powerful calibers.


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## jks9199 (Jun 15, 2009)

Bo is an excellent choice for a first weapon, because it reinforces many basic principles, like stance, footwork, and moving the body in unison.  It's also practical -- because there are many bo-like objects in the world.

Proper instruction is essential; I'm not going to flog that dead horse any more.


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## Langenschwert (Jun 16, 2009)

As a general rule sword, staff or spear are all excellent weapons to start out with. The preference for many MA worldwide is the sword, since the prinicples of swordsmanship apply to all other hand weapons to a greater or lesser degree. The problem is getting good instruction. There is so much BS and utter nonsense out there in the MA world with regards to weapons that I'm sure our ancestors are rolling in their graves everytime someone makes up "k3wl m0v3s".

If your instructor doesn't teach weapons currently, then you're going to have to find another school. Then you have to figure out what you want to learn. Iado won't teach you how to fight, and kendo and sport fencing won't teach you about handling a real sword. But if you're looking for something meditative/form based or sportive/competitive, then those are really good bets.

If you want to learn how to actually _*fight*_ with a sword and learn stuff that's not made-up BS, then two good bets are koryu kenjutsu and Historical European Swordsmanship. For purity of form and body mechanics, Classical Fencing is a good bet. For HES, there is more than one ARMA study group in Houston. You might even find a good kenjutsu school there.

Good luck.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 16, 2009)

firerex said:


> I'm not sure what weapon i want to learn first, i want to start with either sword, staff, nunchuk, or sais but dont know which is best, someone please help me


 

As many have stated get good instruction, and I have to repeat that. 

I have no problem with the wepons you listed, but I would never say one of them is best. I would say the one you learn yourself the best would be the best for you. 

Now a quick comment about the attributes of the weapons you listed: Sword, Staff, Nunchuk, and Sais.

The Sword is good as mentioned by others that it teaches proper balance and footwork and body position so one does not cut oneself. The real application is that most people do not carry a sword and or use one for self defense. The sword could be a single hand, dual hand or both. Each will have different weight and will also dictate what techniques are optimized for each. 

The Staff is good as also mentioned it teaches proper balance and footwork and body position, as one needs to be have all three to get oneself out of the way of the spinning staff and still be able to place it where one wants it. As stated by others, there are staff like devices in out life that could be used more readily for self defense. If that is a desire as well. 

The Nunchuck is my least favorite weapon. But it is very good in that it teaches on how to use and move with a flexible weapon. The attricbutes of a flexible weapon are different in form then with a solid weapon and the actual applications one impact has been made are also very different. So it has very good attirbutes for one to learn. One shoudl use just one to get the optimum benefit of hand switching, but the hand switching does also develop the off hand as well. 

The Sais are usually used in pairs, but can be used alone. In pairs this teaches one to use both hands at the same time and also for block and parry and or attack. 


All have versions of disarms taught with them, and other locks and techniques to keep people interested. 


But, I would recommend that if you are serious then find the right and good qualified instructor. 


If you are looking to branch out of your system then also look into the FMA's as many start with the stick and then translate it into the sword/machete and empty hands. But this would be a whole new system with different approaches, which is not for everyone. 


Good Luck


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## clfsean (Jun 16, 2009)

Everybody else pretty much says it & so I'll beat that horse... 

Find proper instruction.

:deadhorse

I'm sure your teacher is very good at what he teaches, but unless he's certified (i.e. years of training, not a weekend seminar) to teach a weapons based curriculum, you need to find it elsewhere.

:deadhorse


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## lklawson (Jun 16, 2009)

They're all part of "The Dead Weapons Club."  That is, they're only marginally, at best, viewed as appropriate weapons for SD or Combat by today's standards.

So there really isn't any "best."  To a large degree you need to decide what it is you want.  Do you want to do XMA type comps?  Do you want to look flashy?  "Combat" effective?  Do you want to learn a weapon that's more off the beaten path?  Self Defense? Are you looking for universal principles?  Tradition?  Safety?  Getting laid?  What?

The (entirely appropriate) "get good instruction" advice has been ridden to death so I'll not repeat it ad nauseum.  Heed it and heed it well.

You need to decide what it is you "want" out of your weapons training then select the most appropriate weapon(s) for which competent instruction is available within your time-and-treasure budget.  By that I mean, that if you want to study a weapon for which classes are only held at times you can't make it, then you're out of luck.  If you can't afford the classes, you're out of luck.  If there's no instructor willing to teach that weapon, you're out of luck.

There's a lot that goes into a thoughtful selection process.  What most people usually end up doing is what they did when starting MA in the first place.  They do a half-hearted search of the yellow pages or ask a few friends, then go "try out" the first school they find and end up there even if that school doesn't really meet the goals they might have if they'd bothered to give it some thought first.  You are to be commended for giving it some forethought.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 16, 2009)

firerex,

How about a simple stick?

Short or long. Master it before you go to others.

Easy to make and easy to keep around the house. And many of the methods carry over to the sword, short staff, and others.

Deaf


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## AnglingBoi (Jun 24, 2009)

Ever since watching the old ninja turtles cartoons, i've always like their weapons.  Corny i know


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## firerex (Jul 1, 2009)

ok seriously thats just a coincidence that it's the same as the ninja turtles lol, i always liked the sword but figured the staff would b more practical, then i've recently found interest in the nunchucks and soon after, the sais


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## still learning (Jul 8, 2009)

Hello,  So many nice and fancy weapons.....learn to be more pratical..

A staff may not be flashy.....yet in the real world....a broom stick, a cane, a pole, walking stick, a long pole, etc...something long and roundish...can be adapted anytime and anyplace for self-defense..

Our tent poles( we use metal poles), gaff poles, all can be converted into instant weapons..legal too!

Learn to be practical and find a weapon than can be use anywhere....NO laws against carrying a broom or mop stick!

If carrying a baseball bat...just make sure a glove and ball is in the same place....OFFICER...we like to practice all the time...with our baseball stuffs....Aloha


...we were swinging the bat....I guess he didn't "duck" in time...oops


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## lklawson (Jul 9, 2009)

still learning said:


> Hello,  So many nice and fancy weapons.....learn to be more pratical..
> 
> A staff may not be flashy.....yet in the real world....a broom stick, a cane, a pole, walking stick, a long pole, etc...something long and roundish...can be adapted anytime and anyplace for self-defense..


As long as we're talking "practical," here is some practical advice concerning broomsticks.

When grabbing a random broom for self defense purposes, endeavor to limit your attacks to mostly thrusts.  Swings/clubbing attacks are great and all but the broomstick you picked up is of unknown quality.  Many of them have serious grain-runout and will break easily even though many (most?) of them seem to be made of Ash, which is a good hardwood (used for baseball bats).

When using broomstick blanks/replacement handles for Jo/Hanbo projects, which you picked up at your local hardware/home-improvement, inspect them carefully for defects and grain-runout.

Ash broomstick handles are *GREAT *for these applications and projects but, take it from my experience, weaknesses, defects, and grain-runout can seriously bork martial use.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## firerex (Aug 3, 2009)

so i have recieved a bo staff earlier last month and will be getting sai's in later this month, i didnt plan on getting the sais so early but i found a $40 pair for $20 so i figured i best jump on the train and grab them then put them away once i recieve them, but anyways, i have recieved the bo staff and i love it, its really fun to mess aound with in my backyard and i can't say without bruses


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## morph4me (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm glad you're having alot of fun "messing around" with your weapons, but without proper instruction you're missing out on the applications of the movements that you are practicing. It's alot of fun to twirl a bo, hanbo, or jo around, but do you know why you're doing it?  If not it's all flash and no substance.


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## Grenadier (Aug 3, 2009)

firerex said:


> i didnt plan on getting the sais so early but i found a $40 pair for $20 so i figured i best jump on the train and grab them then put them away once i recieve them


 
If those are the standard generic sai that you can get from any number of places (AWMA, Century, etc)., then you're probably going to find that they're poorly balanced, and that you're going to find yourself compensating for the poor balance.  

What I really don't like about these generic sai, is that they also have a bit of a hump where the handle and the guard are welded together.  This interferes with smooth operation.  

If you must go with a cheaper pair, they do have lighter ones (still made out of steel) that are known as their "demonstration models," and that those are a bit better balanced.  

At this stage, since you don't have any formal training in the sai, it probably won't make too much of a difference, but if you start formal training, under a competent instructor, the limitations of the cheap clunkers will be evident.  

Even instruction via video would be preferable to trying to figure it out on your own.


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## firerex (Aug 13, 2009)

i got both from karate depot and i read that the sais were tested strong enough to stick into wood when thrown so i figured they must be good quality


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## Blindside (Aug 13, 2009)

firerex said:


> i got both from karate depot and i read that the sais were tested strong enough to stick into wood when thrown so i figured they must be good quality



"Strong" does not equal "good quality."


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## Grenadier (Aug 13, 2009)

firerex said:


> i got both from karate depot and i read that the sais were tested strong enough to stick into wood when thrown so i figured they must be good quality


 
Any piece of cheap steel can do this.  For that matter, even a stainless steel sword-like object (such as those cheap "ninja" swords) can stick in wood.  

The quality of the sai is not solely dependent on the alleged strength of the material.  Instead, one needs to look at the following factors in addition to material strength: 

1) Balance - Are these sai well-balanced, and do they allow you do use what are supposed to be fundamentally good mechanics?  An unbalanced pair can result in the practitioner compensating by altering hand position, and not letting the sai fly out on their own (still retaining, though).  This, in turn, will result in the development of bad mechanics.  

2) Construction - How good is the welding?  Most cheap sai are going to use poor quality welding at the guard position.  Furthermore, such sai are also going to have that awful "hump" at the guard, which can interfere with good mechanics.  

3) Fit - How well do the sai fit your hands and arms?  This is related to 1), since sai that fit your hands and arms, will allow you to practice without having to make adjustments to what should be good technique.


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## Vulcan (Jun 23, 2010)

still learning said:


> Our tent poles( we use metal poles), gaff poles, all can be converted into instant weapons..legal too!
> 
> Learn to be practical and find a weapon than can be use anywhere....NO laws against carrying a broom or mop stick!
> 
> ...





Hitting anyone who is unarmed with anything other than words (or maybe a limb if they intend on hurting you and you can't escape) is against the law in every US state.

If you get into a fight and maim/kill someone with a stick (or worse, a 15th century bladed weapon), you're going to jail, and at your trial, the jury will convict you for having poor judgement and/or being a person that spoiled for a fight. If computer forensics dredges  up your old posts showing how you salivated at the thought of beating the hell out of someone with something, then that can be used as evidence and will do your case so favours.

Then there is the matter of retention and storage. Whenever you commit to owning a weapon(s), be sure to properly lock them away when not in use, and practice how to keep them out of the hands of those that would use them against you and yours. An overconfident budo mindset of "no one can break my ninja grip!!!!" doesn't apply when you have more than two weapons or assailants.

Just something to think about whenever you decide to act on an interest in a potentially lethal hobby.


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## jks9199 (Jun 23, 2010)

Vulcan said:


> Hitting anyone who is unarmed with anything other than words (or maybe a limb if they intend on hurting you and you can't escape) is against the law in every US state.


No, it's not.  It depends entirely on  the circumstances and threat that the person faces.  My sister-in-law only broke 100 lbs when she was pregnant; in fact, it was only in the last trimester!  Were a 290 lbs college football player to move aggressively toward her, unarmed, would she only be justified in begging "please, pretty please, stop?"  No.  She might even be able to justify using lethal force!

Nor must you wait until you're being pummeled to defend yourself.  Once you reasonably believe the attack is imminent, and force necessary to protect yourself, you can use force.


> If you get into a fight and maim/kill someone with a stick (or worse, a 15th century bladed weapon), you're going to jail, and at your trial, the jury will convict you for having poor judgement and/or being a person that spoiled for a fight. If computer forensics dredges  up your old posts showing how you salivated at the thought of beating the hell out of someone with something, then that can be used as evidence and will do your case so favours.
> 
> Then there is the matter of retention and storage. Whenever you commit to owning a weapon(s), be sure to properly lock them away when not in use, and practice how to keep them out of the hands of those that would use them against you and yours. An overconfident budo mindset of "no one can break my ninja grip!!!!" doesn't apply when you have more than two weapons or assailants.
> 
> Just something to think about whenever you decide to act on an interest in a potentially lethal hobby.



You've got valid and worthwhile points about storage and retention.


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## Vulcan (Jun 23, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> It depends entirely on  the circumstances and threat that the person faces.



Re-read my post (I left out rules of engagement), and you're right. But it does not depend on threat, it depends on state laws. Thankfully we both live in the south where we have the right to defend ourselves. Other states, not so much.

I would still recommend refraining from the katana, as it would be a tough sell to a jury in any part of the Union.




			
				 jks said:
			
		

> You've got valid and worthwhile points about storage and retention.



Thanks. Someone else suggested I was a troll in another thread. What a way to welcome a new member.


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## David43515 (Jun 23, 2010)

They call the staff the father of all weapons for a reason. Start there and it`ll give you a background for the rest of your weapons later.


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## lklawson (Jun 24, 2010)

Vulcan said:


> Re-read my post (I left out rules of engagement), and you're right. But it does not depend on threat, it depends on state laws. Thankfully we both live in the south where we have the right to defend ourselves. Other states, not so much.


What States in the U.S. do not recognize Disparity of Force?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

lklawson said:


> What States in the U.S. do not recognize Disparity of Force?
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk




Kirk, 


I was referring to the laws concerning duty to retreat and deadly force.


These specifically state when and why you can use a weapon. Check you state laws for specific clauses and the castle exception.


-James


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## lklawson (Jun 24, 2010)

Vulcan said:


> Kirk,
> 
> 
> I was referring to the laws concerning duty to retreat and deadly force.
> ...


Then there's something missing.  You can certainly deploy a weapon and deadly force under the appropriate threat.  Duty to Retreat is negated by immediate threat.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## kaizasosei (Jun 24, 2010)

I say nunchaku.  Greatest challenge.  Save you a bunch of mistakes with the other weapons down the road.  Stick is basic, simple as it is deep. Definately stick is the bomb.. i mean since everything in this world is a just a kind of sword, may as well try different kinds.


j


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## Vulcan (Jun 24, 2010)

lklawson said:


> Then there's something missing.  You can certainly deploy a weapon and deadly force under the appropriate threat.  Duty to Retreat is negated by immediate threat.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk




What is missing is the inclusion of past cases where the jury convicted the person defending themselves due to what was seen as excessive use of force (overkill) or failure to retreat (not sure what you mean by "negated by immediate threat". 

I feel that a disclaimer and reminder of the law as it regards to unregistered lethal weapons used for any other purpose than collector/hobby is prudent.




[quote = Wikipedia]As to carrying weapons in anticipation of an attack, Evans v Hughes (1972) 3 A ER 412 held that for a defendant to justify his possession of a metal bar on a public highway, he had to show that there was an imminent particular threat affecting the particular circumstances in which the weapon was carried. Similarly, in Taylor v Mucklow (1973) CLR 750 a building owner was held to be using an unreasonable degree of force in carrying a loaded airgun against a builder who was demolishing a new extension because his bills were unpaid. More dramatically, in AG's Reference (No 2 of 1983) (1984) 1 AER 988 Lane CJ. held that a defendant who manufactured ten petrol bombs to defend his shop during the Toxteth riots could set up the defence of showing that he possessed an explosive substance "for a lawful purpose" if he could establish that he was acting in self-defence to protect himself or his family or property against an imminent and apprehended attack by means which he believed to be no more than reasonably necessary to meet the attack[/quote]


So, you see the problem that exists as to when you can carry and use anything other than a registered weapon for self defense, and even then you can expect a jury to wonder why you were in a situation so dangerous that you had to train and use archaic blunt or sharpened weapons. That is a rare case indeed. As it was said, the bat should be kept with gloves and a ball. 

But I would recommend leaving the nunchucku, bo staff, and katana at home.


Besides, there is a greater chance that you will get struck with lighting or eaten by a shark than needing deadly force to escape a threating situation in this lifetime. The key is to not get in one in the first place. If you are in one you can't escape, then your life has some darker parts to it than the average person, and you should be carrying a registered firearm and have 911 on speed dial at that point.


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