# The future of the TKD section



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen,

Due to various and sundry disputes on rank, authenticity, experience and source we continue to see thread after thread after thread in this section of MartialTalk.com get shut down. The sole reason for this is the refusal of some posters to abide by the rules of the forum.

If this continues, we could lose this part of the board.

I beseech each of you who post here to take into account the usage of The Great Debate for the sort of disputes and examinations referenced above.

I challenge you to read the posting rules of the entire forum - after all, with your click-through agreement you have effectively signed a contract of conduct that is binding.

I encourage you to find ways to have discourse that don't involved comparisons that grate on the ability to gain from and contribute to this unique community.

Take a moment ... and the opportunity to grow.

Surely there is more to talk about in KMA and TKD than what has been.

Sincerely,

Georgia Ketchmark


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## Archtkd (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> If this continues, we could lose this part of the board.



And who stands to gain from that? MT, Taekwondoin or the folks who relentlessly bash them?


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## Dirty Dog (May 8, 2012)

Archtkd said:


> And who stands to gain from that? MT, Taekwondoin or the folks who relentlessly bash them?



I don't think anybody really gains anything. Personally, I would really hate to see the KMA section shut down. 

But considering how much the mods aren't paid, I can understand why shutting down a troublesome section would have a certain appeal. 

Better yet, we could all act like adults and stop the sniping. I've been guilty of the occasional pot shot myself. That ends. 

As Georgia said, heated subjects can and should be kept in The Great Debate, or even PMs. 



Sent from my iPhone using TapaTalk.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2012)

i aint posted in here in months, dont look at me...lol  i dont know what has been happening but i am sure i can guess.


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## oftheherd1 (May 8, 2012)

Good reminder to all of us.  Thanks shesulsa!


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## chrispillertkd (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Ladies and gentlemen,
> 
> Due to various and sundry disputes on rank, authenticity, experience and source we continue to see thread after thread after thread in this section of MartialTalk.com get shut down. The sole reason for this is the refusal of some posters to abide by the rules of the forum.
> 
> If this continues, we could lose this part of the board.



While I certainly sympathize with the moderators for doing a thankless job if the Taekwon-Do section is shut down because of a group of posters who refuse to abide by MT's rules then the problem is with the moderators, not anyone else. If they refuse to enforce their own rules then you can't blame people who come here and post in an obnoxious, beligerent, disrespectful, or whatever manner. They've seen other people get away with it so why not them? Yes, you'd think adults could be responsible enough to post in an appropriate manner in a public forum but you'd be wrong (this is the internet, after all  ). 

We've all heard mods say that they try to give people the benefit of the doubt and not apply the rules too stringently. How's that working out? 



> I challenge you to read the posting rules of the entire forum - after all, with your click-through agreement you have effectively signed a contract of conduct that is binding.



I have done this. More than once, in fact. 

Edit: I just want to make clear, that I'd love for the TKD section to remain open but obviously there are people here who can't take a hint. If Bob wants to shut down the section instead of dealing with problem individuals then that's his perrogative. In any event there's obviously a better way to deal with any problems than that.

Pax,

Chris


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## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Archtkd said:


> And who stands to gain from that? MT, Taekwondoin or the folks who relentlessly bash them?



+1.

The posers who post false information win.  not us.


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

Something I need to say here folks...

The recent thread, the one about getting HKD rank after a weekend seminar that was just closed...why was it closed?  The member with the screen name 'd1jinx' made several false accusations in that thread.  I called him out on those false statements.  I wake up this morning and the thread is closed!?!  Are we know not allowed to state that a member made false statements and request he either support them or retract them...or admit he lied on a public forum.  Is that against the rules now?  

I'd like the TKD section to be a happy-joy joy place just like most everyone else.  But I'm not going to sit by and allow d1jinx to make false statements about me and my instructor on a public board and not challenge it.  He made the statements...he needs to back them up or admit he made them up.

Which is it going to be?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 8, 2012)

I wasn't going to post this. I slept on it it fact. But I'll post it.

The majority of our members are great people. You've made this a successful site, left the politics and baggage elsewhere and used this as a community for fellowship and research and relaxation.  To all of you, I thank you.

Then we get to the children. 
We're tired of the constant sniping, the digs, the knit picking, the bull ****.
We're tired of you whining like little babies, little colecy babies, in need of a good burp, so that your spit up can be wiped up by us, your bottoms powdered, and your dipper changed.
The 'irony' is that most of the babies have never ever contributed a single cent to the upkeep of this site. Never will. 
When you give them a wrist slap, they get sneaky. Get more obscure. Then cry "I didnt do nuthin" when you give them a wrist slap.

We've got more mountains in here than the Alps, all of which were mole hills when they started.

Seriously folks. We are sick and tired of the crap.
Grow the **** up already. Grow a thicker skin. It's not all about you. You're not always right.

We don't want to be rules lawyers, knitpicking through things, but damn it that's what a few people with thin skins are demanding we do.
Except where they are concerned, because of course they are always innocent of any wrong doing.

Enough is enough.

If you want this section to continue, you'll police each other, you'll police yourselves.

Because right now, to save this section, we may cut out a few cancers, and sadly that always takes good with it.

We've got a dozen reports so far this week that we're looking at going 'huh?' at. We're locking threads faster than they start it seems.

You want us to enforce the rules to -your- level of demand? Fine.  Zero  tolerance. If you report something and we find it's BS complaint, you'll  get points. You burp and don't say excuse me, points. Is that what you  want? Then maybe a few more people should pony up some memberships so I  can pay a mod to be a babysitter here. That enforcement goes both ways,  we won't just enforce on the guys you have issues with, so before  demanding a hardline, realize you're going to get hit too. (Not might,  but will) You don't want us to act like Judge Dredd.

You're supposed to be adults. Act like Adults. Act like the responsible members of society you're supposed to be.  If you're an instructor, then double shame on you for your actions that have brought us to this point. 

You want this section to remain open, then make it a solid positive resource for your community. Enough with the bickering, and ********.

Or is that all you got to offer?

Balls in your court folks.  The other 99% of the community that hasn't caused a bit of headache is counting on you to get it right this time.


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Something I need to say here folks...
> 
> The recent thread, the one about getting HKD rank after a weekend seminar that was just closed...why was it closed?  The member with the screen name 'd1jinx' made several false accusations in that thread.  I called him out on those false statements.  I wake up this morning and the thread is closed!?!  Are we know not allowed to state that a member made false statements and request he either support them or retract them...or admit he lied on a public forum.  Is that against the rules now?
> 
> ...


What Shesulsa is saying is general and covers everything and everybody in this section.  Do not point fingers and say it is one man's fault because you are just as guilty for causing as much crap as the rest.  Hell, I know I am guilty, if not one of the lead offenders. Perhaps dijinx made a bad assumption, but I do not believe he was trying to make anything up out of the blue.  Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won?  Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won?  Yes.  Was it TKD rank?  Yes.  Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won?  Yes.  That would be an assumption however, you have since said was not true. So fine...it is not true and d1jinx made a mistake. So let it die already and move on.  

The section is about Taekwondo/Taekwon-do/Tae Kwon Do  and all aspects of of it, not just one or two areas of it.  There are many people who post on here that have great knowledge in different areas from coaching, to competing, to self-defense, to history, to training.  If others can take the blinders off for even one moment they would see there is a lot more to TKD than just their small little world or what they choose to hone in on perhaps we wouldn't have so many threads closed.  Though I do like the idea printed on another thread that they just automatically get locked up after 2 days. 

If people are going to post and make judgement calls on another person or school, then they should be prepared to put themselves out there for scrutiny.  Do not tell me my water is dirty and not show me what your water looks like.


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## Gorilla (May 8, 2012)

In 3 years I have never reported a thread.  The Mods have always been fair with me and I dont expect that to change.


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

Bob that all sounds real good...but...

If this is going to be a great section to come to, then people need to realize that not everyone is going to subscribe to the same exact thing on every single point.  That people are going to post from their experience, inexperience, point-of-view or what they've been taught.  People need to realize that this is what contributes to the section.  If you don't agree, then simply say, "I don't agree"...and move on.  Going back and forth, page after page because people don't like what you've said or aren't reading fully what you said has gotten old.  If something isn't clear...how about asking for a clarification.  And if you still don't agree..so what!!!  No one is forced to agree with another here.  But maybe...just maybe a certain view will make you think about things differently.  That's growth!

However, and I'm not going to let this go right now, if someone is going to post something about another member or their instructor or whatever...they need to back it up.  One of the biggest problems in this section is that people don't agree with someone else's opinion and then go on the nit-picky warpath with snide remarks.  And worse, they make up crap to 'get them'.  I'll say it again, if you post something about another member....back it up.  If you can't back it up then don't post it.  If you posted something 'intentionally falsified' i.e. you lied through your teeth about someone to make them look bad...then guess what...you've just trolled.

I'm all for in-depth, informative discussions.  But when it gets to the point that someone is going to claim my instructor got his rank at a weekend seminar...you'd better be ready to pony up the proof.  You want to cut out some cancer...start with people that have 'intentionally falsified' i.e. lied about another members credentials or the credentials of their instructors because they don't agree with them on some topic.  Then see if the section returns to friendly.


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> i aint posted in here in months, dont look at me...lol  i dont know what has been happening but i am sure i can guess.


I've been keeping your spot warm.


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## terryl965 (May 8, 2012)

All I know is this the TKD section is always one of the top sections of MT and has been for a alot of years. I enjoy this section but not all the B.S. that comes from a few people who seems to think they are always right. Bob and the Mods do a great job here even when I was a mod this section had problems. I ask that each of us remember the tenets of our art and sport so this section can continue and stop complaining about so and so. Act like an adult and take your medicine so we can debate and try to find out where each and everyone of us are coming from.


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## Gorilla (May 8, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> i aint posted in here in months, dont look at me...lol  i dont know what has been happening but i am sure i can guess.



Welcome back!


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## Gorilla (May 8, 2012)

terryl965 said:


> All I know is this the TKD section is always one of the top sections of MT and has been for a alot of years. I enjoy this section but not all the B.S. that comes from a few people who seems to think they are always right. Bob and the Mods do a great job here even when I was a mod this section had problems. I ask that each of us remember the tenets of our art and sport so this section can continue and stop complaining about so and so. Act like an adult and take your medicine so we can debate and try to find out where each and everyone of us are coming from.



Exactly!


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> What Shesulsa is saying is general and covers everything and everybody in this section.  Do not point fingers and say it is one man's fault because you are just as guilty for causing as much crap as the rest.  Hell, I know I am guilty, if not one of the lead offenders. Perhaps dijinx made a bad assumption, but I do not believe he was trying to make anything up out of the blue.  Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won?  Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won?  Yes.  Was it TKD rank?  Yes.  Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won?  Yes.  That would be an assumption however, you have since said was not true. So fine...it is not true and d1jinx made a mistake. So let it die already and move on.



With all due respect Jeremy, don't cover for him.  And yes, you are one of the biggest offenders.  d1jinx didn't make a 'bad assumption'.  He lied.  He lied because he didn't like my viewpoint in a couple of threads.  Last time I checked, people here were allowed to have their own viewpoint.  Last time I checked it was allowed to express that opinion.  He hasn't manned up and apologized.  Make a public accusation then make a public apology.  

One of the first guidelines of TKD is 'courtesy to all'.  How are you doing on that Jeremy?  Yeah...I could improve that as well..but it sure would be a lot easier if I didn't have the same 3-4 members pulling the same crap every time I turn around and post MY FRIGGIN OPINION!  You don't agree...say, "I don't agree" and move on.  You don't have to agree.  But how about acting like a martial artist, y'know...all that respect and courtesy stuff.  In other words, practice what you preach.  I don't agree with you on many things but I'm all for some mutual respect.  But mutual respect is a two-way road.


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## SahBumNimRush (May 8, 2012)

I would simply like to point out that while this "problem" is going on here, I'm still having a GREAT discussion on the KMA/TKD threads as we speak.  That is all.  Oh, and welcome back Twin Fist.


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## dancingalone (May 8, 2012)

SahBumNimRush said:


> I would simply like to point out that while this "problem" is going on here, I'm still having a GREAT discussion on the KMA/TKD threads as we speak.  That is all.  Oh, and welcome back Twin Fist.



+1.  I'm disappointed by some of the recent acrimony but to be honest even the "Facts and Lies" thread had some interesting discussion on it.  It's hard to change your mind on something or to learn something entirely different from your prior experience without someone willing to play the role of teacher.  And occasionally a teacher must be an antagonist to be effective.


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> +1.  I'm disappointed by some of the recent acrimony but to be honest even the "Facts and Lies" thread had some interesting discussion on it.  It's hard to change your mind on something or to learn something entirely different from your prior experience without someone willing to play the role of teacher.  And occasionally a teacher must be an antagonist to be effective.



Well said.  

The problem that I see in that thread is some folks disagree with alternate interpretations for movements in forms.  And that is fine.  Let me say it again so that it is REALLY clear...it is FINE!  They don't have to agree.

But

We have in that thread credentials being attacked, 'you don't know what you're talking about' or 'you clearly are inexperienced' or 'your not really TKD...go away you're not allowed to be here'.  That isn't constructive.  And what I'm finding out is that it is coming from members who haven't really put in any time or effort training or researching into alternative applications.  And hey, that's okay.  If someone isn't interested in alternative applications then they don't have to put in the time/effort.  But they then, shouldn't turn around and negatively comment on those that have put in the time/effort/research/training/teaching.


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## SahBumNimRush (May 8, 2012)

Actually I'm enjoying the "facts and lies" thread, despite the heat in the kitchen.


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## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Well said.
> 
> The problem that I see in that thread is some folks disagree with alternate interpretations for movements in forms.  And that is fine.  Let me say it again so that it is REALLY clear...it is FINE!  They don't have to agree.
> 
> ...



Look. If you have problems with someone attacking you, REPORT THE POST. Be a grown damn man and START A THREAD IN THE GREAT DEBATE and invite the accuser there to prove or disprove the claim. You can't expect others to act like grown men if you're whining like a child. Follow the rules or lose this platform. And I don't care who you are, you are not destroying a board for.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## chrispillertkd (May 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> +1. I'm disappointed by some of the recent acrimony but to be honest even the "Facts and Lies" thread had some interesting discussion on it. It's hard to change your mind on something or to learn something entirely different from your prior experience without someone willing to play the role of teacher. And occasionally a teacher must be an antagonist to be effective.



Can't say I agree with your sentiments. 

Pax,

Chris


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## dancingalone (May 8, 2012)

chrispillertkd said:


> Can't say I agree with your sentiments.
> 
> Pax,
> 
> Chris



Duel at tomorrow dawn with wet noodle lashes?


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> With all due respect Jeremy, don't cover for him. And yes, you are one of the biggest offenders. d1jinx didn't make a 'bad assumption'. He lied. He lied because he didn't like my viewpoint in a couple of threads. Last time I checked, people here were allowed to have their own viewpoint. Last time I checked it was allowed to express that opinion. He hasn't manned up and apologized. Make a public accusation then make a public apology.


Not covering for him.  Simply stating what I felt he did.  It is my viewpoint...you know that thing you keep bitching about that everyone gets on you for.



			
				KSD said:
			
		

> One of the first guidelines of TKD is 'courtesy to all'.  How are you  doing on that Jeremy?  Yeah...I could improve that as well..but it sure  would be a lot easier if I didn't have the same 3-4 members pulling the  same crap every time I turn around and post MY FRIGGIN OPINION!  You  don't agree...say, "I don't agree" and move on.  You don't have to  agree.  But how about acting like a martial artist, y'know...all that  respect and courtesy stuff.  In other words, practice what you preach.  I  don't agree with you on many things but I'm all for some mutual  respect.  But mutual respect is a two-way road.


Ha.ha.ha...Ok.  Whatever you say.


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## andyjeffries (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Look. If you have problems with someone attacking you, REPORT THE POST. Be a grown damn man and START A THREAD IN THE GREAT DEBATE and invite the accuser there to prove or disprove the claim. You can't expect others to act like grown men if you're whining like a child. Follow the rules or lose this platform. And I don't care who you are, you are not destroying a board for.



Shesulsa, seriously, I nearly spat Coke all over my monitor...


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## chrispillertkd (May 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Duel at tomorrow dawn with wet noodle lashes?



Them's fighting words.

But seriously, if someone takes it upon themselves to be a "teacher" on a BBS they shouldn't be surprised that people give them a raspberry and the old two-fingered salute, shold they? It can really come off as the height of arrogance, especially when it's coupled with antagonism. Too often that's thinly veiled hubris, not enlightened disinterest. I've learned more here about a variety of topics from people like yourself who don't _need_ to stoop to being beligerent to make their point. You can tell who is worth listening to and who isn't after a few posts. 

Pax,

Chris


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

chrispillertkd said:


> Them's fighting words.
> 
> But seriously, if someone takes it upon themselves to be a "teacher" on a BBS they shouldn't be surprised that people give them a raspberry and the old two-fingered salute, shold they?


Why would they give a peace sign?


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

chrispillertkd said:


> Them's fighting words.
> 
> But seriously, if someone takes it upon themselves to be a "teacher" on a BBS they shouldn't be surprised that people give them a raspberry and the old two-fingered salute, shold they? It can really come off as the height of arrogance, especially when it's coupled with antagonism. Too often that's thinly veiled hubris, not enlightened disinterest. I've learned more here about a variety of topics from people like yourself who don't _need_ to stoop to being beligerent to make their point. You can tell who is worth listening to and who isn't after a few posts.
> 
> ...



Nobody claimed to be a teacher in that thread.  Only stating their opinion.  There's a difference.


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## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Originally Posted by *miguksaram*
> 
> 
> What Shesulsa is saying is general and covers everything and everybody in this section. Do not point fingers and say it is one man's fault because you are just as guilty for causing as much crap as the rest. Hell, I know I am guilty, if not one of the lead offenders. Perhaps dijinx made a bad assumption, but I do not believe he was trying to make anything up out of the blue. Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won? Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won? Yes. Was it TKD rank? Yes. Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won? Yes. That would be an assumption however, you have since said was not true. So fine...it is not true and d1jinx made a mistake. So let it die already and move on.
> ...



first let me say...

with all due respect.  I did not lie.  to continue calling me a lier and accuse me of being out to get you is wrong.  Jeremy is not defending me, he is stating the obvious.

I Found it hypocritical that you would post a link to a seminar, poking fun at it, when it is the same indiviual who you have a connection to, per YOUR web page and YOUR own post.  So for me to say, Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won? Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won? Yes. Was it TKD rank? Yes. Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won? Yes. and per your reply, it was wrong. so be it.  easy assumption to make given the facts.  

IS it the same GM Won on the flyer as listed on YOUR WEBSITE?  then of course you can see it is easy for one to assume so.  my mistake.  Thank you for clarifying that.  But its still hypocritical to poke fun at someone when at the same time you quote thier name as your roots.

Also sir, with all due respect, no one is out to OUST you, or prove anything.  Nor HAVE I made any acusations.  QUIT playing the victim trying to have everyone buy your sob story of how everyone is out to harras you.  I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU.  I used your own posts and websites and came to my own conclusions, much like you tell people to do about TKD history.  remember?  guess I got it wrong and you cleared it up so LET IT GO.

But a public apology?  for my oppinion?  based off your posts and websites?  NEVER.  

with all due respect, *you owe me an apology *for claiming to everyone how I am a lier.  How many times have you posted my name calling me a lier?  I was incorrect? maybe, A lier NOT. you continue to Slander my name and make it as if I am out to get you.  Again good sir, I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU.  

but of course you cannot play the victim if you just point out I was incorrect, thats not as entertaining I suppose.

oh and of course, _with all due respect_.... sir.


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## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Look. If you have problems with someone attacking you, REPORT THE POST. Be a grown damn man and START A THREAD IN THE GREAT DEBATE and invite the accuser there to prove or disprove the claim. You can't expect others to act like grown men if you're whining like a child. Follow the rules or lose this platform. And I don't care who you are, you are not destroying a board for.
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2



:BSmeter:

If someone is going to make a public statement attacking credentials in THIS section, then taking it to the GD section is frankly stupid.  First off, he hasn't even responded here in this thread.  What makes you think he's going to own up down there where no one hardly goes anyway?  It ain't bitching and whinning.  

If you make a statement attacking another's credentials here in the TKD section then you should be willing and able to back up that statement here in the TKD section.  Or do you think it's okay to just make some crap up and post it?


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## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Bob that all sounds real good...but...
> 
> If this is going to be a great section to come to, then people need to realize that not everyone is going to subscribe to the same exact thing on every single point. That people are going to post from their experience, inexperience, point-of-view or what they've been taught. People need to realize that this is what contributes to the section. If you don't agree, then simply say, "I don't agree"...and move on. Going back and forth, page after page because people don't like what you've said or aren't reading fully what you said has gotten old. If something isn't clear...how about asking for a clarification. And if you still don't agree..so what!!! No one is forced to agree with another here. But maybe...just maybe a certain view will make you think about things differently. That's growth!
> 
> ...



poor you, always the victim.

with all due respect, I dont agree.


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## Master Dan (May 8, 2012)

I could not agree more! instead of costant Yo mama or whos your dady or arguing about minute issues of history or small technichle issues I would like to hear more about how we can use TKD to serve the community and in our US culture change and assist the public education system which is truly a mess.

I would like to hear more efforts and docmentation on self healing of both physical and mental issues both congenital and resulting from abuse and specific training method used to increas cognative learner which is a major part of my current thesis efforts to pursue more non profit and non commercial TKD peace corp but to the US our own back yard.

I am guilty to take the bait at times when the glove is thrown down I am considering changing my signatur to Madagasgar ( if you have any POO throw it now) I think the TKD community is fractured and lost with out a rudder and I miss people like Ray Terry who was litterally stalked and run off all public forums by the all consuming ego of he who must not be named?


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## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Well said.
> 
> But
> 
> We have in that thread credentials being attacked, 'you don't know what you're talking about' or 'you clearly are inexperienced' or 'your not really TKD...go away you're not allowed to be here'. That isn't constructive. And what I'm finding out is that it is coming from members who haven't really put in any time or effort training or researching into alternative applications. And hey, that's okay. If someone isn't interested in alternative applications then they don't have to put in the time/effort. But they then, shouldn't turn around and negatively comment on those that have put in the time/effort/research/training/teaching.



again the victim.  give it up already.  move on, and oh,

with all due respect, I disagree.


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## dancingalone (May 8, 2012)

chrispillertkd said:


> But seriously, if someone takes it upon themselves to be a "teacher" on a BBS they shouldn't be surprised that people give them a raspberry and the old two-fingered salute, shold they? It can really come off as the height of arrogance, especially when it's coupled with antagonism. Too often that's thinly veiled hubris, not enlightened disinterest. I've learned more here about a variety of topics from people like yourself who don't _need_ to stoop to being beligerent to make their point. You can tell who is worth listening to and who isn't after a few posts.



Hmm, let me reword.  Some of my best teachers, in and out of martial arts, have been jerks.  Sometimes their method of delivery gets in the way of the lesson (an intentional one or otherwise) they are teaching, but at times the abrasiveness is effective too.  In college, I had a few courses where the professor used the Socratic method to help us open our minds to other perspectives, and definitely this could be intense and adversarial at times.

I don't know that anyone here at MT is trying to 'teach' when they post, but I can say I have read information here that I was able to research further and then later use to my own benefit in my real life.  And sometimes the information came from a post that was written in a fashion that was less than friendly.  I'd like to see the KMA section of MT be a more peaceful area, but I don't think all the conflict is a bad thing either.   But then I am not a moderator.  

In the end, we all need to take a chill pill.  Occasional absences from the boards are good when we lose perspective and become incensed at other people over the internet.  Might be a good time for some of us to take a voluntary vacation before the mods make it mandatory?


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> If you make a statement attacking another's credentials here in the TKD section then you should be willing and able to back up that statement here in the TKD section.  Or do you think it's okay to just make some crap up and post it?


Not sure...is it ok to judge someone's method of promotion in an art, without at least stating your own credentials in the art so that others will know why you came to your conclusion?  It is  question that will boggle the mind for ages.


----------



## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> :BSmeter:
> 
> If someone is going to make a public statement attacking credentials in THIS section, then taking it to the GD section is frankly stupid. First off, he hasn't even responded here in this thread. What makes you think he's going to own up down there where no one hardly goes anyway? It ain't bitching and whinning.
> 
> If you make a statement attacking another's credentials here in the TKD section then you should be willing and able to back up that statement here in the TKD section. Or do you think it's okay to just make some crap up and post it?




again, another post claiming to be the victim.  I do pitty you sir.  with all due respect, I still disagree.


----------



## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

d1jinx said:


> I Found it hypocritical that you would post a link to a seminar, poking fun at it, when it is the same indiviual who you have a connection to, per YOUR web page and YOUR own post.  So for me to say, Did Mst. Dunn study under GM Won? Yes, did he receive rank from GM Won? Yes. Was it TKD rank? Yes. Could it have been possible for him to receive HKD rank GM Won? Yes. and per your reply, it was wrong. so be it.  easy assumption to make given the facts.





			
				d1jinx said:
			
		

> you know the ironic thing, the OP (no names) pokes fun at GM Won for  promoting such a seminar, yet per his words in the past, his taekwondo  and hapkido "teacher", mike dunn, is allegedly a student of that  teacher, GM Won, and supposedly got his hapkido rank from GM Won,  through a program such as that.



Your trying to cover your tracks.  No one ever, on this board or any other board or on our website claimed, alleged or stated that GM Dunn received HKD rank from GM Won after or through a weekend seminar.  Ever.  Only you are the one to state/assume/suggest this information.  I asked you to back it up.  You cannot back it up.  Those are the facts of this matter.  



			
				dijinx said:
			
		

> guess I got it wrong and you cleared it up so LET IT GO.



Fine.  Have a nice day.


----------



## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Not sure...is it ok to judge someone's method of promotion in an art, without at least stating your own credentials in the art so that others will know why you came to your conclusion?



Yes, it is okay.


----------



## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Your trying to cover your tracks. No one ever, on this board or any other board or on our website claimed, alleged or stated that GM Dunn received HKD rank from GM Won after or through a weekend seminar. Ever. Only you are the one to state/assume/suggest this information. I asked you to back it up. You cannot back it up. Those are the facts of this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Fine. Have a nice day.



so "supposedly" was wrong? oh. ok. thought i read that somewhere. must have been another authors interpretation or something. Also my conclusion based on my "research' i performed while doing a quick search here on MT and on yYour website. I guess i would have gotten an "F" on that paper, although the content would have been correct, the conclusion may have been off. Thank you for correcting that for me. 

But I am not covering my tracks, nor shall I apologize.

are you going to apologize for calling me a lier now?  are you going to apologize for assuming I am out to "get " you?

well?

with all due respect, you too have a nice day.


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

The solution to me seems to be that we all grow a bit of a thicker skin. I'd sooner see the TKD board closed than turn into the kind of useless pablum that occupies other martial arts forums, TKD ones in particular. Politics are part and parcel of Taekwondo and we have a responsibility as Taekwondoin and federation members to understand what's going on and why. If the desire is to have us pat each other on the back about everything that gets posted and never discuss anything, I won't bother continuing to post and I'd bet a number of others feel the same way.


----------



## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Yes, it is okay.



Then don't be surprised when people question you about how you achieved your ranks.


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Yes, it is okay.



Okay for you, you mean. It's a big affront when you're questioned judging by your reactions.


----------



## The Last Legionary (May 8, 2012)

At least 1 person still doesn't get it.

I'd like to say they will be missed, but I never lie.

The argument going on right now is a prime reason why this section's at risk of being dumped I think.

If this is an example of TKD's finest, it's no wonder most other arts consider you lot a ****ing joke who buy rank and think kicking dry pine is important. 

"TKD, the Community College of the Martial Arts World".

This thread reads like a high school drama queens Facebook wall. 

God, what a bunch of pathetic children. If I had the ban hammer I'd boot at least 3 people, maybe 5. Clean house, let them whine elsewhere and return the site to some level of civil discussions.

That takes stones. Wonder if there are any stones here.


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

The Last Legionary said:


> At least 1 person still doesn't get it.
> 
> I'd like to say they will be missed, but I never lie.
> 
> ...



Erm, what? How is your little melt down any more mature? I really hope you're younger than me and I'm 20. If you're an instructor I'm shocked.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Wow. Y'all still don't get it. It's all about you, isn't it?


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

> what is the great debate? *the great debate is the never ending argument over lineage, history,  terms, definitions etc. This is -the- only place on martialtalk where  such debates will be allowed. Read the forum rules for the specific  guidelines*.



_*understand??????*_


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Wow. Y'all still don't get it. It's all about you, isn't it?



I have to say I really don't see very much on this board that I'd consider outside the realm of normal debate. There's an occasional flame fest and an occasional screaming match, but a big community will have that. Conflict and controversy is a big part of any martial art that stays growing and developing and I for one feel that the board and community stagnates without controversy.


----------



## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

The Last Legionary said:


> "TKD, the Community College of the Martial Arts World".


HEY!!! I'm just a Basket Weaving 101 class away from my AAS and another black belt so back off! ha.ha.ha.



			
				Last Legionary said:
			
		

> This thread reads like a high school drama queens Facebook wall.


Not yet, because no one has been called a dirty whore....but give it time.



			
				Last Legionary said:
			
		

> God, what a bunch of pathetic children. If I had the ban hammer I'd boot at least 3 people, maybe 5. Clean house, let them whine elsewhere and return the site to some level of civil discussions.
> That takes stones. Wonder if there are any stones here.


I have one in my shoe...does that count?

Listen I agree with you, even though I am a perpetrator in much of this.  It can get petty as most online discussions will tend to do.    Like your sig quote says "....human stupidity is limitless."  With that said, I believe you should just dish out a virtual spanking and send us to bed without desert.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

ETinCYQX said:


> I have to say I really don't see very much on this board that I'd consider outside the realm of normal debate. There's an occasional flame fest and an occasional screaming match, but a big community will have that. Conflict and controversy is a big part of any martial art that stays growing and developing and I for one feel that the board and community stagnates without controversy.



Respectful discussion that does not disrupt the harmony of the board is what this community is all about. There are places for the kind of arguments that have recently been seen in this section and IT IS NOT HERE. The refusal to follow the guidelines and rules is equivalent to noobs coming in to your dojang and interrupting classes with continued disrespectful behavior.

This section is not just for the handful of people who are members here, it is for the world to see, for artists of other styles to read and learn from, the purpose of which to spread and encourage brotherhood and understanding. Respectful disagreement can be had without the crap we've seen here recently.

You all have been encouraged by the mentors, warned by the moderators & administrators and smacked by the owner of the board and you still want to try to defend these actions?  What are you not getting?

What language does Bob Hubbard have to post it in? How many infractions do MJS and JKS have to issue? How many TKDin have to be banned?

You DO realize that you're representing your art, your school, your lineage, your teachers, your students and your association when you take part in this, right?


----------



## chrispillertkd (May 8, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Hmm, let me reword. Some of my best teachers, in and out of martial arts, have been jerks. Sometimes their method of delivery gets in the way of the lesson (an intentional one or otherwise) they are teaching, but at times the abrasiveness is effective too. In college, I had a few courses where the professor used the Socratic method to help us open our minds to other perspectives, and definitely this could be intense and adversarial at times.



I have had quite the opposite experience. In fact, the vast majority of teachers I have had in college, high school, etc. who have been jerks haven't had much worth teaching. They used their lack of social skills to cover for the fact that their teaching skills were lacking. You can certainly challenge someone's preconceived ideas without being belligerent, I think. 
And I have experienced the Socratic method at the hands of more than one professor who didn't need to be antagonistic about it, to everyone's benefit. 

It's funny, recently I had lunch with an old martial arts brother of mine and we were discussing a similar topic. I mentioned that I knew a very high ranking student of a very senior instructor but the student, despite the fact that he held quite high rank (one of the instructor's senior student, in fact), was - to put it mildly - an expletive deleted. I asked my friend if he thought it would be worth while if I studied with said person, or his instructor. My friend said he thought it would be even given the obvious character flaws of the student or if I had a problem with him I could consider his instructor and train with him myself. But, I asked, isn't learning how to be a good person the most important thing about martial arts training? Certainly in Taekwon-Do it is with the emphasis on the Tenets and Moral Culture. His own training in Praying Mantis Kung-Fu also places a very high emphasis on character development being influenced by Confucianism to a large degree. My friend agreed with this. So I asked why I would want to train with someone who was so lacking in social skills and I also wondered what it said about the instructor's ability to judge a person's character. I can go anywhere to learn how to kick or punch or wrist lock some one. Any idiot can teach me those things. But are they the kind of people I want to associate myself with? No. I understand that there is a difference between guiding someone on the way and walking it yourself, but those two things aren't completely divorced from each other. And, frankly, if that's their idea of being a good teacher, they're not.

FYI, this wasn't about another Taekwon-Do instructor. I'd never leave my instructors even if they tried to kick me out (as I've told them myself  ) but rather a different style I was considering cross training in. I've been so spoiled having my instructors that sometimes it can come as a huge shock when I meet people who are their juniors who don't act like I would expect a white belt to act. 



> I don't know that anyone here at MT is trying to 'teach' when they post, but I can say I have read information here that I was able to research further and then later use to my own benefit in my real life. And sometimes the information came from a post that was written in a fashion that was less than friendly. I'd like to see the KMA section of MT be a more peaceful area, but I don't think all the conflict is a bad thing either. But then I am not a moderator.



Oh, I've seen it. It's blatantly obvious in some cases (which is when I simply don't get involved in a thread, or at least not with the poster in question). As for conflict in the section, it's a fixable problem. 



> In the end, we all need to take a chill pill. Occasional absences from the boards are good when we lose perspective and become incensed at other people over the internet. Might be a good time for some of us to take a voluntary vacation before the mods make it mandatory?



I agree. There were several months where I didn't post and there are some posters I simply won't reply to for my own peace of mind. And that's a lesson I had to learn the hard way. In the end, if I lose my self-control because of what some keyboard warrior posts then did I have any in the first place? Not much.

In the end, to paraphrase shesulsa, you catch more flies with honey...

Pax,

Chris


----------



## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

Then I simply suggest this to everyone (including me);


Put the hard feeling on the shelf and let them collect dust.
Treat others like we'd like to get treated.
Treat this thread as a clean slate and start fresh with each other.


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> Respectful discussion that does not disrupt the harmony of the board is what this community is all about. There are places for the kind of arguments that have recently been seen in this section and IT IS NOT HERE. The refusal to follow the guidelines and rules is equivalent to noobs coming in to your dojang and interrupting classes with continued disrespectful behavior.
> 
> This section is not just for the handful of people who are members here, it is for the world to see, for artists of other styles to read and learn from, the purpose of which to spread and encourage brotherhood and understanding. Respectful disagreement can be had without the crap we've seen here recently.



Whatever disrespect happens here is from TKDin having thin skin and taking things personally, my first post in the thread said that. I've been guilty of it, it was just as stupid when I did it. Questions of rank/lineage are asked to get an idea of another's perspective, not to debase anyone. 

I have no concerns about anyone's opinion of Taekwondo. It's irrelevant. If you understand why it happens, good, if you don't, fine. 



shesulsa said:


> You all have been encouraged by the mentors, warned by the moderators & administrators and smacked by the owner of the board and you still want to try to defend these actions?  What are you not getting?



Believe me, I understand fully. 



shesulsa said:


> What language does Bob Hubbard have to post it in? How many infractions do MJS and JKS have to issue? How many TKDin have to be banned?



I've never been banned or gotten an infraction, so I'm going to go ahead and assume I'm safe for the time being. 



shesulsa said:


> You DO realize that you're representing your art, your school, your lineage, your teachers, your students and your association when you take part in this, right?



Yes, I do. I've posted my entire lineage multiple times. I have no secrets. I know where most of the active posters on this board got their rank. I assure you my instructor isn't that concerned with what I post on a message board. Even if he was, he'd agree with most of what I've said.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> :BSmeter:
> 
> If someone is going to make a public statement attacking credentials in THIS section, then taking it to the GD section is frankly stupid.  First off, he hasn't even responded here in this thread.  What makes you think he's going to own up down there where no one hardly goes anyway?  It ain't bitching and whinning.
> 
> If you make a statement attacking another's credentials here in the TKD section then you should be willing and able to back up that statement here in the TKD section.  Or do you think it's okay to just make some crap up and post it?



One might question one's security about their rank if they feel they must chase another member around demanding an apology.  How about you - again - BE A GOOD CITIZEN OF THE BOARD - you know, a grown-up - and post it where it belongs? Don't you think he will join you in that debate in that section? I feel certain he will since you few who perpetuate this crap drag it around with you wherever you go on this board - this thread included!


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Then I simply suggest this to everyone (including me);
> 
> 
> Put the hard feeling on the shelf and let them collect dust.
> ...



I can be good with that. Who else can be?


----------



## ETinCYQX (May 8, 2012)

I think that was the general spirit of my first post.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2012)

i have been saying for YEARS that people need to grow up and get some thicker skin.


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## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

It's not just thicker skin. It's a respect for the rules and the appropriate place for this type of disagreement.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2012)

thicker skins meanless reported posts. Everyone with an overly sensitive vag hitting "report post" every 12 secs is part of the problem. People are gonna disagree. 

that doesnt mean people have to get pissy about it.


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## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> thicker skins meanless reported posts. Everyone with an overly sensitive vag hitting "report post" every 12 secs is part of the problem. People are gonna disagree.
> 
> that doesnt mean people have to get pissy about it.



Yes - you don't report posts that illustrate technique that goes against the principles of your kwan; you don't report posts that ask questions about the efficacy of techniques, you don't report posts that give alternatives to your approach.

You DO report people who follow you from thread to thread demanding apologies for something you said, you DO report people who repeatedly question your rank outside the appropriate venue, you DO report people who issue threats and repeated, bona-fide personal insults such as name-calling, you DO report people who consistently hijack threads to suit their own purpose.

D8ck or V4g, we can do without sexist terminology, too.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2012)

eh. 

thicker skin


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## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

Twin Fist said:


> eh.
> 
> thicker skin



Well, you DO seem to be one example of a user who has gotten away with rampant thumb-nosing of the rules.


----------



## Twin Fist (May 8, 2012)

tell that to the points i just got, from YOU reporting the post i am sure. perfect example of what i just said. gotta go cry to the mods....no wonder i havnt posted here in months. And if there are problems here, it isnt me since AGAIN FOR THE SLOW, i havnt posted here in months before today.


----------



## Kong Soo Do (May 8, 2012)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Then I simply suggest this to everyone (including me);
> 
> 
> Put the hard feeling on the shelf and let them collect dust.
> ...



Let's try this again.  Maybe we can give this thread a positive ending.


----------



## Kinghercules (May 8, 2012)

LMFAO!!!!
This crap is too funny.


----------



## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

Quick question....Was KSD's post, and subsequently my post, about his HKD background yanked? Or did I take too many Jolly Rancher jelly beans at one time and had one hell of a hallucination about the whole thing even happening?


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## d1jinx (May 8, 2012)

he broke the rules and posted it in the wrong section.  they moved it to the correct section.

I am curious though, why 1 would say he let it go, then start a whole new post baiting dumb saps like myself.  It reminds me of that "victim" role where one draws attention to ones self for pitty in order to gain self worth.

but alas, I am too dumb to ignore it.  I have tried to find a good point to let it die.  maybe its here.


Note to Mods and Bob,

sorry for any disruption.  I dished it, so I'll take it as you see fit.

even still, thanks for the platform.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Quick question....Was KSD's post, and subsequently my post, about his HKD background yanked? Or did I take too many Jolly Rancher jelly beans at one time and had one hell of a hallucination about the whole thing even happening?



They have been moved to The Great Debate. You can find them here.


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> They have been moved to The Great Debate. You can find them here.


Thanks.  Not sure why it was moved there but ok.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2012)

miguksaram said:


> Thanks.  Not sure why it was moved there but ok.



... because discussions and challenges regarding rank and background ... *BELONG THERE* ...


----------



## Archtkd (May 8, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> In 3 years I have never reported a thread.  The Mods have always been fair with me and I dont expect that to change.



Let it be noted that I adhere to the rules.


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## miguksaram (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> ... because discussions and challenges regarding rank and background ... *BELONG THERE* ...


Right, I understand that.  I was not challenging his rank.  Just remarking that his teacher was my friend's student.  Again...no big deal.  Was just curious.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 8, 2012)

how about this.

everyone just step back, and cool off.  infractions are being issued, take it like adults, and move the section forward in a positive direction.

Alternate option is  that in an hour or so I turn the KMA area read-only for a while.


----------



## Gemini (May 8, 2012)

:slapfight:


Sadly, it confounds me how those who continue to find themselves in conflict fail to recognize they are the source of the conflict. It's really not that hard, if you try. But you have to try.

I see so many of my friends who have posted on the last 5 pages and as your friend would only remind you, you are all good people capable of positive contributions. You are better than this.


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 8, 2012)

d1jinx said:


> +1.
> 
> The posers who post false information win. not us.



False or just not valiadated or just different from what one was taught? 

In one of the FMA's (Balintawak) I teach, there is an org with a GM that makes claims. The claims are false. But those who follow up all swear they are true. They swear under penalty of sparring with sticks that it is true. It is what they were told. So it has to be true. It is what their GM wrote down so it has to be true. 

How was this handled? People who cared, from multiple organizations and lineages from the founder, all asked questions and provided data. Yes there were some of posted it to get people angry. Yes there were some who posted to brag about the stories and the claims. The point was that with many of the old timers gone there was thought that he was the last and he coudl re-write history. My instructor had educated me otherwise. And guess what, I went out and researched what others said as well. When you get an 80 to 90 % overlap and the 10 to 20 % is different points of view that are not contrary to the main point of story being told then you get a feel that more and more of what is true. If multiple lines all have a verbal history that overlap, but one does not then what is wrong with the one? 

Yes the bad guy is still out there teaching. But his followers are less and less vocal on sites as the community kept tabs. Even though I ran into a loud mouth in person at a camp last year, and was at a table at a bar one evening right behind me. I started telling the stories he was telling, and who told me. I told them loud enough that he got the point.

So how come I can do this? Two major points is why. I am good enough in what I do to back it up. I also have a reputation of being nice and humble. I know if you have to say it you are not. But it is what I have been told. So being myself, and being consistent and making logical points and having a good rep in the community goes a long way whe you get upset. Others will wonder why. 

And just so you know my instructors of Record at GM Remy Presas for Modern Arnis and GM Ted Buot for Balintawak. Manong Ted, was the only one to teach at the Founder's club besides the founder. Many of those teaching today are third generation while I am second. All of this could be used in arguments for and against. Yet, I make comments to list data, and to provide a point of view for discussion to educate people. 

So the first thing I always do is the research to make sure I am not the one with false info, by checking multiple sources even if it is verbal. 
If I am not the one with the incorrect data, I then ask specific questions with details. 

So have you done this? Have you checked your sources and documented them and other sources not directly yet indirectly associated with you and your org? 
Of so then present them when you ask your question as part of your data for the question. Have a discussion. Do not have a religious discussion. Make it one of data and or philosphy not of faith. 

That is my recommendation.


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 8, 2012)

The Last Legionary said:


> At least 1 person still doesn't get it.
> 
> I'd like to say they will be missed, but I never lie.
> 
> ...



Sir, I have a problem with your words !!!

I believe you may have insulted Community Colleges  

** Runs and hides before the comparison to elementary schools and the systems I study begins **


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 8, 2012)

*Ok.

I went through -this- thread.

I issued a bucket's worth of infractions. Let me put the speculation to rest, at least half of you got them.
All most all were warnings.

Now, take the wrist slaps like adults, and go make the rest of the TKD section a more positive place, and take the personal issues off site.

"But Bob, you slapped me for trolling and I wasn't..."

I got better things to do that roll anyone a custom infraction. I found something close to how I saw it, issued it and moved on to the next nose with a boogie in it. I've got a cranky server to deal with, several clients to satisfy, and a number of headaches with the new house to deal with.

So I am asking that no one make this molehill into the Alps.

Just take the wrist slaps, and go do good things in other threads.

I am being as fair as I can be, to you, to the other members, and to my over worked staff right now. 

Please don't make me regret it.

Namaste.*


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 8, 2012)

Bob Hubbard said:


> how about this.
> 
> everyone just step back, and cool off. infractions are being issued, take it like adults, and move the section forward in a positive direction.
> 
> Alternate option is that in an hour or so I turn the KMA area read-only for a while.



Bob, 
My apologies to you and the staff. I posted from earlier posts before getting to the end. Not an excuse just an explanation. 

Thanks


----------



## Steve (May 8, 2012)

Edit to remove my attempt to lighten the mood in light of the moderator's note.  But suffice to say, it was really funny and insightful...  or was that inciteful?  Well, one or the other.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 8, 2012)

Steve said:


> Edit to remove my attempt to lighten the mood in light of the moderator's note.  But suffice to say, it was really funny and insightful...  or was that inciteful?  Well, one or the other.



I caught it. I think you're right. But I keep hoping.


----------



## jks9199 (May 8, 2012)

Rich Parsons said:


> Bob,
> My apologies to you and the staff. I posted from earlier posts before getting to the end. Not an excuse just an explanation.
> 
> Thanks



Rich -- I, for one, appreciated your post.  It's a great guide on how to handle some of these sorts of issues, and actually address problems WITHOUT creating disruptions or breaking the rules.  Thanks!


----------



## Master Dan (May 8, 2012)

I am getting concerned about the moderator burn out I am hearing and it is human nature to become what you see or work with everyday? Instead of locking a thread or even eliminating people when it degrades to a personal vendeta lets have an new section you can move the thread to like a cage fight in MMA. let them go at no holds barred like Jerry Springer I do not watch every day but if I have a really bad day I can watch at come away with boy I am not that bad or by lot is not so bad it could be a good release to let these people vent you can relegate them to the nether worlds but lets have graphics like XBox 360 mortal combat people could vote win loose ect by puchinng a button and charge to vote just like texting on all the news shows that want a text to vote yes or no it costs plus i would be willing to pony up another $25 a year in addition to access this section. 

I want to add that I would like to see main stream TKD reporting from the organization on here but the reason they as a rule do not is they do not want to suffer the slings and arrows from people who want say negative things back because they are upset with them or have agendas


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 8, 2012)

Master Dan said:


> I am getting concerned about the moderator burn out I am hearing and it is human nature to become what you see or work with everyday? Instead of locking a thread or even eliminating people when it degrades to a personal vendeta lets have an new section you can move the thread to like a cage fight in MMA. let them go at no holds barred like Jerry Springer I do not watch every day but if I have a really bad day I can watch at come away with boy I am not that bad or by lot is not so bad it could be a good release to let these people vent you can relegate them to the nether worlds but lets have graphics like XBox 360 mortal combat people could vote win loose ect by puchinng a button and charge to vote just like texting on all the news shows that want a text to vote yes or no it costs plus i would be willing to pony up another $25 a year in addition to access this section.
> 
> I want to add that I would like to see main stream TKD reporting from the organization on here but the reason they as a rule do not is they do not want to suffer the slings and arrows from people who want say negative things back because they are upset with them or have agendas



Dan, (* If I may *)

Have you read this thread ? 

Please search for posts by Shesalsa. You will find that she has asked for these discussion to move to "The Great Debate" section/forum. This is were you have those types of discussions. That way those who want to ask questions about an art are not afraid to ask for fear of getting yelled at or ganged up on. That way responsible posts can occur and people can have discussions and move forward without the drama. 

Links to the rules and links to threads created in the great debate are also in this thread. 

Thanks


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## lifespantkd (May 8, 2012)

shesulsa said:


> we can do without sexist terminology, too.



Thank you.

Cynthia


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## Master Dan (May 8, 2012)

Rich Parsons said:


> Dan, (* If I may *)
> 
> Have you read this thread ?
> 
> ...


 thank you i had not heard of the section before that does not mean it wasn't there I be have been to forgetful to remember but I tried the link supplied and it did not work but looked for it on new posts certianly things calmed down alot on section. I think some constructive issues came out however name calling and bad language by moderators while amusing confirms to me why NO GGM'S, SGM'S SM'S do not post on here and still I would like to come here for all WTF KKW USTC, UAA, ITF AND MANY OTHER GOOD ORGS public anouncments but I am being unrealistic.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 8, 2012)

Dan, we've tried saying 'please' and 'play nice' so many times we'd be quite wealthy if we had a nickel for each time. 

The GM's are most certainly welcome, but they have to leave the egos and demands that we katow to their ranks at the door.  A lot, can't do that, or have demanded special treatment in the past. I have at least 1 kenpo GM who wanted to be paid to sign up. So, it's a challenge.


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