# Ok I give up who the heck is Tom Carnes??



## Rocky

??????


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## Rich Parsons

Rocky said:
			
		

> ??????


 
Rocky,

Did you get a video or an e-mail or phone call?

Quite interesting personality huh?


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## Rocky

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Rocky,
> 
> Did you get a video or an e-mail or phone call?
> 
> Quite interesting personality huh?



To say he least, if not the most!!!


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## Rich Parsons

Rocky,


Check out these threads:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10802&highlight=carnes

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8875&highlight=carnes

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8940&highlight=carnes

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8547&highlight=carnes


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Interesting reading here.

I spent some time on Google after reading the linked threads, searching on here, and a few other sites.

Very little information out there on this person.

Here is what I found. Unfortunately, not a lot.
==
Information:
http://www.jkd.com.hk/eng/forum/reply.asp?message=303&replyid=8388&level=2&all=

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-12817.html
"TRUUF SEEKER
09-07-2005, 05:08 AM
Seriously, watch out for Tom Carnes. From first hand experience I can tell you that he is a fraud, and borderline delusional. I've seen his JKD certificates. Did bruce make his students fill out their certificates themselves, in their own handwriting? Was he really an orphan raised at the Shaolin Temple and given the title "Master" in monkey kung fu? Too many of his stories seem contrived and do not match up. He does teach seminars, and there is no doubt he posseses skills and techniques, but I question background and credentials. I, and many others, have an uneasy fear of this man. If you have a similar experience, please post."
"Taomonkey
05-17-2002, 09:11 PM
Most of these trading guys are collectors, and retards, who only send back crap, and hold on the the best for themselves.
The worst out there is a guy named Tom Carnes, of Chico, Cali. THis guy pormised the sky, footage of my teachers long dead Master from the Islands, told stories about his great experience, his great certificates, how all these families named him inheritor, how he trained with Bruce Lee, and it went on. I figured this guy was a nut, but wanted the video he claimed he had. so I sent him a tape. some footage from comercial tapes and some of me doing a demo in downtown Tulsa. WHat I got back was junk, video of him, video of some philippino's where he claimed it was him, pictures of all his (forged) certificates (I checked several out) and an offer to come and do seminars for us for $500 plus bus fare. Oh and he sent me a rank certificate. I sent him that back. For a year the guy called my house almost weekly. then he sent me three more tapes of the same low quality crap, and told me about his great video system.
The moral,
If you want it, you probally have to buy it.
Dont ever send out vidoe of your teacher or yourself to some guy you dont know.
And if Mr. (self professed Master) Tom (Monkey Man) Carnes calls you, tell him he's a fake, and hang up."

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/grou...query=carnes&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1


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## monkey

I never offer to seminars for $500.If I was a fake Why do people like DrBARBAR & Ed Faris & Leonard Trigg & Holiford Jones & Tom Bolden Know my ranks are authentic.There is always some one who will bash & never met you or others.They werent there so post my ranks If you want to post.This forum is not made on bashing & here say,Try the true or is it too much for some one that didnt start till the 90s.


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Who said I started at all? Each swallow works hard to be perfect pilot-provider-builder-trainer-teacher-lover-mate, no half-true hate! So, each day like a bird, perfect thyself first! Have courage and smile my friend. Think and act 10 years ahead! And the man without fault? He&#8217;s dead! Do one thing at a time, work hard! Get done! Then teach friend & enemy the Moral ABC that unites all mankind free! Uniting One! All-One! Face the world with a smile, life is always worthwhile! To the fearless are given crowns, keep out the past, disappointments won&#8217;t last! Help unite mankind, or we&#8217;re wandering clowns! Diligent preparation, precede . . . spectacular restoration!! So, help teach the whole Human race, the Moral ABC&#8217;s All-One-God-Faith, lightning-like, for we&#8217;re All-One or none! All-One!!


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## monkey

For info on who is tom carnes go to who is tom carnes serch on the martialtalk & scroll down till you see these threds http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...ghlight=carnes      go tothe 4th & see the history of ranks some may not of know existed & rank of tom carns & his dvds are 100% authintic.Notation from Dr.Jarome Barbar


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Search More did I. Jeeves Asked Did I. Know you not Did He. Some Yahoos inquired of also I did. One Yahoo say this, yes he did:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/csemt-serrada_escrima/message/188
Another Yahoo sayum disum : http://republika.pl/modernarnis/modern arnis/polish/represent/california.html
blinkenlightes buy this shirt me hearty, sp good ep bad, third person I can be in a 3-way dance. Terry Funk to you all.
Now thread start I will, whoum is "Jarome Barbar"? Mr. Google, Jeeves and those Yahoos know him not at all.


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## Cruentus

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Rocky,
> 
> 
> Check out these threads:
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10802&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8875&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8940&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8547&highlight=carnes


 
Goodness.

Reading some of those old threads brings back memories. Boy, am I glad my life is a lot less complicated then it was back then...

Paul


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## monkey

Did you get a chance to scrool the htl I told how to get to & it exsplains my rank ect.


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## monkey

i just mail to Hawii the demo of the old school footage-my ranks-footage of Remy then Ernsto doing as I show at Joses school.My kuntao rank is shown as well as master & guardian & the many patches that evolved from the art including the rare 3" triangle nearfield patch.I can honestly say that when you see kuntao arins in action its a totaly differant animal & hard to imposable to count.The rare class photo of me with Both Remy & Ernesto is also shown.So Be Patient & listen from Hawii & you will here Its all real.


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Confused am I Monkey Man. No Map show Hawii place. what art is arins? How does one "scrool the htl"?
are you all-one-all-man? post can you sans dropping of the names? Wibble!


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## monkey

i beleave the person Im sending to is Rick Wade from Hawii Yes?He e-maied me his address to send the dvd  so it will got to him!


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## Edmund BlackAdder

ok Tom. Fun and Games time is over. I have some pointed questions for you.

1- Are you the same Tom Carnes those links mentioned?
2- Can you actually write a clear and coherent sentence?
3- What is your primary language?
4- Do you have permission of the copyright holders of those tapes you are trading to distribute them?
5- You do realize that tape trading is against the rules of this site?
6- Can you post here without dropping a ton of names?
7- If you are this grand keeper of the arts as you seem to claim, why is it that nobody from the last 20 years seems to know who you are, nor does your name come up more than an insignificant number of times on any search engine I check, and usually in relationship to questionable tape trading exchanges where other bootlegers are very unhappy with you?

I'll have more later.


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## MJS

Well, I have a question.  Monkey,  perhaps you can tell us who designated you as "keeper" of the art?


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## Morgan

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Rocky,
> 
> 
> Check out these threads:
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10802&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8875&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8940&highlight=carnes
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8547&highlight=carnes


 
Thank you Guro Parsons for the threds you posted above.  In the 4th group was  the following:







 06-26-2003, 12:50 PM 
DoctorB 
 Posts: n/a 


*An additional Piece of Information* 
​If anyone has a copy of the Filipino Martial Arts Magazine, Volume 4, Number 4, you can see the full page re-print of the MAFP certificate awarded to Tom Carnes, by Professor with the designation of Guardian and Master. 

There is a tendency on the part of some people to totally dismiss Master Carnes and his statements regarding Modern Arnis and his association with the Presas, however, I have seen some of the footage that he has of Jose Presas, the father of Professor, Ernesto and Roberto. Master Carnes is the real deal! He might be difficult for some people to accept and his path is and continues to be different from most current Modern Arnis people, but Master Carnes knows what he is talking about from personal training experience with the Presas' in the Philippines.

One of the purposes of the Symposium is to discuss matters like this and to show documentation where it exists to support the claims. The fun behind the Sympopsium is that we all get to talk face to face, show our variations on the art and learn from others. It takes an open mind and a willingness to learn to be at this event. The closer it get the more I am looking forward to being a participant. 

There will be some extras at the Symposium - as people make their final travel plans and get their wares ready for sale, the structure is developing very nicely. The espada y daga training sets are going to be beautiful and the live blade Master Instructor Sets are awesome.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


I must admit that I have some difficulty understanding exactly what Mr. Carnes is trying to say in his posts because his spelling and grammar are quite poor.  But he must have been refering to Dr. Jerome Barber at least twice in his posts and the above quoted post was useful.  I found the FMA Magazine V4 #4 (2002) in a friends collection.  On the inside back cover Carnes' was reproduced.  The certificate is dated 12 September 1981.  It is signed by Professor Presas, Jim Ceheo(?), Rick Mitchell and Rick Ward.  The rank listed is "4th dan Black Belt  Guardian-Master".  It does appear that Mr. Carnes does have some validity since he has 3 people countersigning his certificate in addition to Professor Presas.  I am somewhat familiar with Guro Rick Mitchell and Guro Rick Ward but I have no idea who the other person is.  Maybe if these people are contacted more information about Mr. Carnes can be validated.  I certinly would not want to accept every claim Mr. Carnes made based on just 1 certificate.

Morgan


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## monkey

go to  htt://republicka.pl/modernarnis/mode...alifrnia.html & see a second suport from another group of arnis.Mind you i did re new my ranks every tear till Remys passing.Also if you go to school & get cetified that certificate  is good-who are you to say no or doubt you were not there nor a lot of others who started in the 90s.Why do you think you are it when my rank is signed & dated & legal.


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## MJS

monkey said:
			
		

> go to htt://republicka.pl/modernarnis/mode...alifrnia.html & see a second suport from another group of arnis.Mind you i did re new my ranks every tear till Remys passing.Also if you go to school & get cetified that certificate is good-who are you to say no or doubt you were not there nor a lot of others who started in the 90s.Why do you think you are it when my rank is signed & dated & legal.


 
Please keep in mind that with the limited availability of you, your background, etc., I think its pretty obvious as to some questions being raised.  I can order up a 10th dan Black Belt and have a fancy diploma printed up, giving the impresssion that I'm all that, when in fact it'd be nothing but fraudulent material.  I'm not saying this is what you did, but keep in mind that Prof. Presas had many students and made many promises to many people.  I think that by running around making it sound like you're the sole person in charge of the art is a bit extreme.

I haven't been in Modern Arnis nearly as long as some of my instructors or people on this forum, so I'll admit that I know nothing of you.  However, if you were 'there' as you say, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find out some info on you.

Mike


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Mr. Carnes,
  I can have a 7th degree Black, signed by Remy Presas himself, in about 5 minutes. The certificate, the paper, the signature *will* all hold up under careful examination.

Of course, I never studied Modern Arnis, nor met the man prior to his unfortunate passing.

So, when someone with poor communications skills pops onto a message board, claiming to have studied with a number of the great masters of our times, claims to be the guardian of not just one but several of their arts, yet the Only! information that one can find about him is that he is a tape trader of questionable reliability, and a listing on a website thats so out of date it makes my suit appear to be in style again, my crap detector starts screaming like a bar girl the night the fleet docked.

Now, the link you posted is broken.
You have not answered my questions.

Heres more for you to ignore:

1-When did you last see Remy?
2-If you are the Guardian of his art, why does it seem that no one from the last, oh, 10-20 years of his life seems to know you?
3-How can you be Guardian of something, if you are a virtual unknown?  Shouldn't the Guardian be out there spreading the word, sharing it and passing it on?


So, now you can slowly and carefully explain who Tom Carnes is.
Or demonstrate by further ignoring questions and dropping names.


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## monkey

I have never ignored a question.Any films I have are private or given to me to promte-archive ect for that resogn.Stipulating that I trade illegal tapes was a judgement on yor part.& I never judged you or asked your ranks.Jarome Barber Has seen my videos & ranks as well as others,You said not to name drpo but who from 1975-80 knows you?Why is it you people who started in the 90s feel your the only 1.The art had may evolutions from Kuntao Arnis to International Philippino Asso. to Monder Arnis to Practical to Arnis de Tronka to Tapi Tapi.None of you were there when Remy promoted Kelly Wardon for his privotes or Tom Bolden or Ed Farris or Robert Briggs or Bruce Jutchnick or Haliford Jones.Wear were you when these people got ranks or Remy gave commitioner ranks.I dont see too many with that title or punong guru & a few others.My rank was poster in the mag to show its authentic,but from what you say you will continue to bash & not excpt the fact your not the leading authority on ever aspect of the art.Sure some dont like me,big deal-so they talk bad-big deal-They never met me & I wouldnt be Cailf rep for the art if I didnt do,know of forgde a rank.Just becouse you did seminars dot think you got the same training that was shown in privote,PRIVOTE you excell-get honed & be come a technition.You dont talk as a tech. you just bash.Not what the site was for .


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## Edmund BlackAdder

ok, you made me laugh.
"Remy promoted Kelly Wardon for his privotes"
Different twist to the idea of being "Top Stick".

Ok. Like I said, paperwork can be faked. Most of those you claim are dead.
Last I checked, Both Inosanto and Ernesto Presas are still alive.  Anyone on good terms with them to ask if Mr. Carnes here really is the Guardian of their Arts?

Monkeyman, you *are* ignoring my questions.

Let me repeat them one last time. I'll even fill in some blanks for you. I am asking specific question here. I am not bashing you.  The topic of this thread is "Who Is Tom Carnes".  I am seeking to answer that question by asking you, Tom Carnes, questions.

*1- Are you the same Tom Carnes those links mentioned?*
Yes

*2- Can you actually write a clear and coherent sentence?*
No

*3- What is your primary language?

4- Do you have permission of the copyright holders of those tapes you are trading to distribute them?*
No

*5- You do realize that tape trading is against the rules of this site?*
No

*6- Can you post here without dropping a ton of names?

7- If you are this grand keeper of the arts as you seem to claim, why is it that nobody from the last 20 years seems to know who you are, nor does your name come up more than an insignificant number of times on any search engine I check, and usually in relationship to questionable tape trading exchanges where other bootleggers are very unhappy with you?

8-When did you last see Remy?

9-If you are the Guardian of his art, why does it seem that no one from the last, oh, 10-20 years of his life seems to know you?

10-How can you be Guardian of something, if you are a virtual unknown? Shouldn't the Guardian be out there spreading the word, sharing it and passing it on?*

11-Now, you claim to be California Rep of "The Art".
Funny. Your name isn't on the IMAF website as California rep. Nor Jeff Delaney's site, nor the WMAA site, nor the IMAFP site. Those are the 5 big organizations covering Modern Arnis in the US.  I can start the BlackAdder Arnis Rattan Federation (BARF) and appoint folks reps. Doesn't make it special.

12-You claim to be Guardian of Arnis.
But, if no one from the 80's and 90's and early 00's knows you, how can you really be preserving it? In that 25 years, as you yourself said, the art changed. So, what you are, is an archive of an obsolete edition, which is not unnecessarily a bad thing. As I asked in #10, how can you be Guardian of something you are out of touch with?

Now, I have numbered and separated these questions, which should be easy to answer.


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## MJS

opcorn: :drinkbeer


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## monkey

Leonard Trigg is not dead-Ed Farris is not dead-Robbrt Briggs is not dead-Haliford Jones is not dead were did you get your infomAgian you just bash & judge for the sake of doing it.WHO ARE YOU>I aswererd your questions even about the videos,again you bash as you been on the site for awhile so people will see what you write ,not so much me.I will now speak technical as you will not understand since you say I am incoherent.(The liptical orbit of the osli must meet the vortex to defeet attacking strike.Thus liptical will cancel the path or linear attack.)Is that to tech for you.As far as who is Tom Carnes  Who are you?You dont do arnis do you,you were not around at the time as Barber state clearly so who are you to say what was or was not.


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## shesulsa

monkey said:
			
		

> Leonard Trigg is not dead-Ed Farris is not dead-Robbrt Briggs is not dead-Haliford Jones is not dead were did you get your infomAgian you just bash & judge for the sake of doing it.WHO ARE YOU>I aswererd your questions even about the vidios,again you bash as you been on the site for awhile so people will see what you write not so much me.



No, Monkey, you are being asked specific questions which is allowed on this site.  You are not being bashed.

If you take the time to read the rules, you will see that though MT does not promote nor endorse fraudbusting, that each member is responsible for the claims s/he makes.  We are allowed to question you, not bash you.


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Tom,



> Leonard Trigg is not dead-Ed Farris is not dead-Robbrt Briggs is not dead-Haliford Jones is not dead


 Right. They aren't. So, anyone who knows them or can figure out who they are once they get past your terrible spelling, can ask them.


> were did you get your infom


I got my inform*ation* from the following sources:
Google (5 hits on "Tom Carnes" arnis, 2 were this thread)
Yahoo - 2 hits, same info as above
Ask - no results
answers.com - 1 result, same as above.
I checked the websites of the "4" major Modern Arnis organizations covering the US. IMAF-s, IMAF-d, WMAA, IMAFP. I also checked on the WMAC forum, and MARPPIO site.  Again, I didn't see you listed anywhere.

So, there isn't much on you. By comparison, a search on blackadder arnis on google gets over 200 hits.



> Agian you just bash & judge for the sake of doing it.


I am not bashing you. I am asking you questions.
I have not yet begun to judge you.



> WHO ARE YOU>


An opinionated jackass who likes to ask lots of questions, to help further discussions, smack a few "experts" around, and otherwise go where no man has gone before.



> I aswererd your questions even about the vidios,


Yes, and I've filled in those blanks for you. We can revise those answers if you believe them to be wrong.



> again you bash


You seem to confuse asking you to validate your claims to be on par with bashing. They are not the same.



> as you been on the site for awhile so people will see what you write not so much me.


Yes, I have been here a while. So what?

Tom, The questions I asked are simple ones. They shouldn't be a big deal to answer. I'm afraid though, I will be unable to continue to try and get a coherient and useful answer from you, as I am now close to the line on violating this sites Fraud Busting policy.  Busting you as a Fraud is not my intent. Your continued non-answers however will do just that.

Tom, The questions are there. They are clear.  Answer them, 1 by 1 and point by point.  Or, not.  Silence and avoidance will do what I cannot.

Good Day Good Monkey.
I remain,
Edmund, Keeper of the Sacred Skivies of Saint Judy, and Holder of the Sacred Garland.


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## monkey

go back a page posted by black adder  his second htt click on  it gose to Moder Arnis Intern Jujitsu Karate Asso. Head Quarters from Halford Jones   Tom Carnes Calif State rep.       funny he wont recignise that & he posted it>He did bash I say you claim No I did not post that or put on computor. Check the other htt:  my certificate was posted in the mag Nationaly I Have yet to see any others.Go to this pg & see morgans the 4th click on to that & read all not just 1 part that suits.As Dr Barber states how do you 90s people know you were not there he is authentic,


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## Bob Hubbard

Tom,
  You're being questioned, not bashed. 
As to the "Moder Arnis Intern Jujitsu Karate Asso. Head Quarters", while I have respect for Datu Jones, I don't see this organization as being a "leading" one. There are easily dozens of minor federations covering Arnis in the US, hundreds around the world.


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## shesulsa

I'm assuming English is not your first language, so I'm going to have to pull your post apart in sections - hope you don't mind.



			
				monkey said:
			
		

> go back a page posted by black adder  his second htt click on  it gose to Moder Arnis Intern Jujitsu Karate Asso. Head Quarters from Halford Jones   Tom Carnes Calif State rep.       funny he wont recignise that & he posted it>



Edmund Blackadder posted a link to someone else's statement about Tom Carnes.  



			
				monkey said:
			
		

> He did bash I say you claim No I did not post that or put on computor.



That's not bashing, that's research into a person's background and other people's opinions.  Everyone is allowed to do that.  If Edmund had stood up and called you a fraud or said the things which were linked directly to you, _that_ would be bashing.  As it is, it's just a link to someone else's opinion.



			
				monkey said:
			
		

> Check the other htt:  my certificate was posted in the mag Nationaly I Have yet to see any others.Go to this pg & see morgans the 4th click on to that & read all not just 1 part that suits.As Dr Barber states how do you 90s people know you were not there he is authentic,



I am having difficulty figuring out exactly what this means and what you're trying to say.

Your refusal to answer simple questions doesn't help your case.

Are you the Carnes these people are talking about? *Yes or no only please.*


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## MJS

monkey said:
			
		

> go back a page posted by black adder his second htt click on it gose to Moder Arnis Intern Jujitsu Karate Asso. Head Quarters from Halford Jones Tom Carnes Calif State rep. funny he wont recignise that & he posted it>He did bash I say you claim No I did not post that or put on computor. Check the other htt: my certificate was posted in the mag Nationaly I Have yet to see any others.Go to this pg & see morgans the 4th click on to that & read all not just 1 part that suits.As Dr Barber states how do you 90s people know you were not there he is authentic,


 
Tom,

IMHO, you're not really doing much to help the cause here.  You keep repeating the same thing over and over and over, but fail to answer some simple questions.  Not answering, speaks much louder than actually answering the simple questions posed to you.  

I'm just curious as to who deemed you the "Keeper of the Art"  

In closing, it would be much appreciated if you took a bit more time in your replies.  The above quoted post is very hard to follow.

Mike


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## monkey

Then what I offerd to you persanaly my video showing the films-ranks etc plus what ever art you liked as they are my privote films.I did this with a thanks on the great site & got no responce,Will the dvd help?Plus like I said it was verified bu Dr Barber or dont you consider him or The one that promoted Delanay to black belt or Tom Bolden/Im sure there are more then just 1 authintic arnis.Thats why the semiars ect were done to cover the differant aspects of what was.Remy tought Modern Arnis in Colorado for a long time & I dont see any of those on this site.Were are the Pallen people or Farris or Trigg as he is the 2nd on Ernesto line-Punong Guru for Sulite-punog Guru for the Ted Lucay Luacy line.Were are they & if this is the 1 & only authentic why is the fma site around & others?


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## Andrew Green

If you own these videos, and are authorized to distribute them, and seemingly very eager to do so, how about posting some.  google video or youtube would be good places, then everyone will be able to see them


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## MJS

monkey said:
			
		

> Then what I offerd to you persanaly my video showing the films-ranks etc plus what ever art you liked as they are my privote films.I did this with a thanks on the great site & got no responce,Will the dvd help?Plus like I said it was verified bu Dr Barber or dont you consider him or The one that promoted Delanay to black belt or Tom Bolden/Im sure there are more then just 1 authintic arnis.Thats why the semiars ect were done to cover the differant aspects of what was.Remy tought Modern Arnis in Colorado for a long time & I dont see any of those on this site.Were are the Pallen people or Farris or Trigg as he is the 2nd on Ernesto line-Punong Guru for Sulite-punog Guru for the Ted Lucay Luacy line.Were are they & if this is the 1 & only authentic why is the fma site around & others?


 
Tom,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not interested in seeing a tape or dvd. What is that going to prove????  I can video tape my certificates too, but thats proving what exactly?? All I see is more name dropping.

BTW, I'm still waiting for an answer to at least my question.

Mike


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## monkey

I offered to send my dvd showing my ranks-signed photos-films of old days ect for the great site I saw tis was but got no responce.This cant be the only site to say who is or isnt.Dr Barber already acknowlaged me as authentic -so will the one that promoted Delanay to black belt & asked to put as assistant Grandmaster.Ive been out of the politics & out of the who said what orginisation is or isnt the most or least or best or what ever,I joined this site to offer some good memrories of the Proffesor,Yes he was Proffessor befor Grandmaster.I was the one to notice it was not Remys sinature on 1 of the 3 wills drawn up.I got bashed for tahtI I did not post or scan the will or any other papers.I simply stated its not Remys its his wifes.I got bashed when the art change from Modern Arnis to Arnis de Trancka.I dont go to seminars-I DO PRIVATES(1 to1 )with my teachers & I get tought what seminars people never will.So for those who went to seminars for 5-9 years & got ranks.I can honestly say as well as Remy jr. it will not hold up to what we lernd.I do talk to Remy jr. time to time & he has a copy of all my ranks-dvds-ect & knows Im authentic.So were are the people on this site that  suport Remy jr. or Lennard Triig or Ed Farris or Robert Briggs or Tom Bolden.He will even tell you I am more then authentic.But whom do you beleave just your factions.There are many sound  players that know me.I know of Proffesors anting anting do you?Or his money belt?


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## terryl965

Monkey I have no idael who you are but I have a question you stated you trained with Bruce Lee right what time frame was this and where, I have always been and admire of his talents. Was he as demanding of his students as he was on himself?
Thanks
Terry


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## MJS

Well folks, sadly, it looks like we will not get any answers to any of our questions.  Simple questions are avoided and instead of quality answers, we see more name dropping.  

The old saying, "Actions speak louder than words." comes to mind here.  And by the looks of the actions from Mr. Tom Carnes, well, our answers should be crystal clear.

Considering Tom, you claim to be such a highly regarded person, I'd think that you would not be ashamed to answer questions.  I guess I was wrong.

Mike


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## monkey

Ill do the video answere 1 more time so if you read the posts  (I own them ,they are privote or give to me to promote the art for Archives as I was there. Now the Jeet kune do , as far as Bruce Lee ,I met in 1968 at Wash. after he saw my demo he state pretty good.Would like to dome with me?I did & was later excepted as student to the Oakland school under James Yimm Lee>1968-70  I trained between James & Bruce.My rank that was give 3rd jeet kune do.I have the basic- sifu manual for Oakland students only.The wall chart-signed photos from Bruce as well as signed  letters from James.Ive been doing seminars at one of the Inosanto school of Bud Thopmson Kaliaccaemy of martial arts.2004-6 & soon to do another ther,Bud is the top man who help run the I>M>B> accademy when it was Inosanto Marteenes & Busttilio.That is why I greed to do seminars there.They are 1 of the few places left without pollitics & just want to train.Call Bud he will tell you as he seen-felt & knows & authentic.I trained with Jose Presas y Bonco  1975-79.Then with Ernesto & Remy till 81 & my rank shows the title given.I continued time to time between them & kept ranks current.No orginsation was part of my goals.That dom ake the art-the teacher & the teachings do.Why pay money to join them when Im 1 to 1 with the founders.It was a gift-not a coat tail to ride for fame or fortune.My skills a above & beyound.Sure Im a bit or a handfull time to time but- that will not change the fact I do the art-Im certified-& heighly skilled.Most of those from 90 on dont even know what MabuHay Balisolomet  mean or corto or sunkiti or basic philippino or history of the art.


----------



## monkey

As far as was Bruce being demanding (if  you showed effort & gave total interest He would smile no matter how bad & politely correct.Now there is a time on film I notice wit a privote him & Cobuhn as Bruce had a few colorfull words & well didnt espolde but his point got across.)James had pain from time to time i was not to attuned to as I was only 18 & didnt know he had some cancer & drank to dull the pain.Brandy & coffe or just beer was it.I exspect he got it from weldding he did.Always breathing the gasses.Now adays welders were masks for clean air,James had a little red & white arch Lincon welder.We trained at his home in the garage.Bruce use to live the with James from 65-6 befor moving to Bel Air &  doing the Green hornet -followed by Iron side -Long Street-Marlow-then moved to hong kong in 70 to get better film parts.


----------



## Edmund BlackAdder

Tom,
 Reading through the maze of bad grammer, misspellings and flat out giberish you post is giving me a headache. 

As to your repeated offers of sending video, I'm not interested. Videos can be edited, images modified, and certificates printed. 

I do have 1 more question for you to ignore though:

When did Remy A Presas change the name of the art "from Modern Arnis to Arnis de Trancka" as you indicated above? I seem to have misplaced the memo.


----------



## monkey

To answere andrew green I dont have a way to load or down load videos.I teach for the art as Im an Army vet so what little I get I dont buy a computor ect.I use free lines at coffe shops ect. They dont let down loads from or to net.Just get webs-e mail-do files ect.Not every one has money to do things.I do this for the art not try to hit every seminar to try to justify the little time that could eventualy accumulte.Still never to match 1 to 1.


----------



## Kreth

Edmund BlackAdder said:
			
		

> Reading through the maze of bad grammer, misspellings and flat out giberish you post is giving me a headache.


I think it's a law of the Internet that posts admonishing someone for bad spelling and/or grammar must themselves contain at least one error, usually quite conspicuous. :uhyeah:
grammar, gibberish, your

And you bet your *** I read this post over several times... :lol:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Tom,
  You can send me any videos you like, and as time permits and with your permission, I will add them to the MT video library.

Bob Hubbard
MartialTalk.com
PO Box 1372
Buffalo NY 14220


----------



## monkey

As to what date exactly who knows each school had differant uniforms-differant members or factions.I know The Colorado group was realy good & now dropped off.I know if you ever did sunkeetee spelled so you can pick at that/ it change to figure 8 then to abcedario then to tapi tapi.In tirsa abcedario is the 112 count.Remy tought many differant things from 1 school to the next.Often 1 school would not have the figure 8 or standing center lock that he got from Wally Jay,some stayed true to the old ways thats why they separated.Much like jkd washington has Jun fan.Chinatown has concepts & Oakland Scientific Street.Not 1 agree & even in the same schools some ganged up on Inosanto who tought & certifed them & now they had the nucleus & the advisery board is all that is left.If you can tell me the exact time & date of when it went to tapi tapi as being the only & true art & all others who studied befor are no longer welcome.


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## Edmund BlackAdder

Tom, that is not an answer.

You said that Remy changed the name of the art "from Modern Arnis to Arnis de Trancka".

So, if that is the case, why is this forum here if it should be called Arnis de Trancka?

When did he make that name change?  In the 70's, 80's or 90's?


----------



## MJS

If there was a supposed name change, why is it everywhere you look, you just see Modern Arnis?  

I notice that you answered Andrew regarding his mention of posting the videos online, so why is it you still refuse to answer the other questions asked of you, namely the one that I had asked...Who was the one that bestowed the title of "Guardian of the Arts" upon you?


----------



## modarnis

MJS said:
			
		

> If there was a supposed name change, why is it everywhere you look, you just see Modern Arnis?
> 
> I notice that you answered Andrew regarding his mention of posting the videos online, so why is it you still refuse to answer the other questions asked of you, namely the one that I had asked...Who was the one that bestowed the title of "Guardian of the Arts" upon you?


 
Mike,

Never any name change I was was aware of.  He did from time to time in the year or 2 prior to his death refer to tranka and trankada when dealing with stick locks and stick lockflow.  Often, he used terms based on what language popped into his head first.  He was fluent in many, so often his terms were in dialects like illongo or cebuano, rather than english.  

In my opinion, people often latched onto these terms as if they were some grand invention of the moment.  For Professor, they were just labels for what he was trying to teach


Brett


----------



## Flatlander

modarnis said:
			
		

> Mike,
> 
> Never any name change I was was aware of. He did from time to time in the year or 2 prior to his death refer to tranka and trankada when dealing with stick locks and stick lockflow. Often, he used terms based on what language popped into his head first. He was fluent in many, so often his terms were in dialects like illongo or cebuano, rather than english.
> 
> In my opinion, people often latched onto these terms as if they were some grand invention of the moment. For Professor, they were just labels for what he was trying to teach
> 
> 
> Brett


Never met the man, but from what I've read here, and heard elsewhere, this wasn't uncommon.  Professor didn't have a codified and set curriculum.  He hit North America with a concept, and the zest to teach, and taught all who'd learn.  From what I can intuit, he was the kind of guy that made you feel like his only student.  That seems to be a common theme among some of our more vigorous guests....


----------



## Rocky

On rare occassion Professor used the Filipino name of ( and forgive me if the spelling is wrong, 1 or 2 letters off and it says Crazy arnis instead of Modern Arnis ) but here goes any ways  " Mahgabong Arnis DeMano"  I know how to say it but not spell it if there are any Filipinos that can speak or more importantly spell Tagolag maybe they can correct it. At least I think its Tagalag, I have the proper spelling on some old seminar T-shirts I will look it up when I have a chance.



Rocky

It took me till the 3rd grade before I found out, there was no such game as hide and go @#&* yourself..............Thanks Dad!!!


----------



## Morgan

monkey said:
			
		

> go to htt://republicka.pl/modernarnis/mode...alifrnia.html & see a second suport from another group of arnis.Mind you i did re new my ranks every tear till Remys passing.Also if you go to school & get cetified that certificate is good-who are you to say no or doubt you were not there nor a lot of others who started in the 90s.Why do you think you are it when my rank is signed & dated & legal.


 
Dear Mr. Carnes,

Since I'm not sure who you are addressing in the quote above, I'll simply say that I accept your Modern Arnis certificate at face value.  I'm aware of the reputations of two of the three co-signers, Guro Rick Mitchell and Guro Rick Ward, I have no problems with the validity of your skills as a 4th degree blackbelt or the "Guardian" title.  I simply wanted to add that information for others to consider and it is a matter of public record since it was printed in the FMAM in 2002.

Respectfully yours,

Morgan


----------



## Morgan

monkey said:
			
		

> I have never ignored a question.Any films I have are private or given to me to promte-archive ect for that resogn.Stipulating that I trade illegal tapes was a judgement on yor part.& I never judged you or asked your ranks.Jarome Barber Has seen my videos & ranks as well as others,You said not to name drpo but who from 1975-80 knows you?Why is it you people who started in the 90s feel your the only 1.The art had may evolutions from Kuntao Arnis to International Philippino Asso. to Monder Arnis to Practical to Arnis de Tronka to Tapi Tapi.None of you were there when Remy promoted Kelly Wardon for his privotes or Tom Bolden or Ed Farris or Robert Briggs or Bruce Jutchnick or Haliford Jones.Wear were you when these people got ranks or Remy gave commitioner ranks.I dont see too many with that title or punong guru & a few others.My rank was poster in the mag to show its authentic,but from what you say you will continue to bash & not excpt the fact your not the leading authority on ever aspect of the art.Sure some dont like me,big deal-so they talk bad-big deal-They never met me & I wouldnt be Cailf rep for the art if I didnt do,know of forgde a rank.Just becouse you did seminars dot think you got the same training that was shown in privote,PRIVOTE you excell-get honed & be come a technition.You dont talk as a tech. you just bash.Not what the site was for .


 
Are there any people on this forum who can contact any of the following people?: 

Jarome Barber, Kelly Wardon, Tom Bolden, Ed Farris, Robert Briggs, Bruce Jutchnick or Haliford Jones.

Some of spellings are most likely not correct but Carnes intention is very understandable.  Then he raises a valid point that needs to addressed:

"You said not to name drpo but who from 1975-80 knows you?Why is it you people who started in the 90s feel your the only 1.The art had may evolutions from Kuntao Arnis to International Philippino Asso. to Monder Arnis to Practical to Arnis de Tronka to Tapi Tap..."

Since there wasn't an established written format for Modern Arnis that the late Professor Presas developed and wrote out Carnes could be quite accurate for his time and place in the art.  If Carnes is correct and there were several name changes for the art as taught by Professor, then he certinly is not a fraud.  Out of date in the minds if some, but not a fraud.
If any or all of the above mentioned people are aware of Carnes and are willing to verify that he has a legitimate place in Modern Arnis, that will help everyone as well.  I'm curious and I hope that there are people out there who can contact the above mentioned people and get their views on Carnes.

Morgan


----------



## James Miller

Ive seen a video that Mr. Carnes sent Datu Hartman. One part of the video displayed a bunch of membership diplomas with the expiration dates whited out with the word lifetime written over the whiteout! Carnes is a crackpot!

:bs1:


----------



## monkey

Im so glad you saw the video but no skill was told of.& Robert Lee just saw some of my jkd seminars I can say (he did not say or try any defermation.)Yes I showed original 1981 as well as state rep & a current Master & Guardian.As far as life time over it-No it was to be renewed with Remy every year nottake advantage of his passing.1999 was the latest my ranks were up dated.Now I see you failed to also note I had signed pictures from Tom bolden-Inosanto-Allen Joe-Tom Tackett & many more as well as other ranks of other arts that dont require yearly up grade.& hold rank in Doce Pares and other arts as well.


----------



## monkey

Special note still dont know exact day but Remy had a compleat 14 tape set Arnis de tranka filmed & tapi tapi became the art Delany is supoly the Heir to the grand master of.Now as far as I remember when Proffesor did the tapes (I do have a copy of most) they were taken of the market for some odd thing that didnt make sence but Delanay did relaese his set as well as a female & note his add I belave it starts with 13 were Remy left off.You will not find the 1-12 unless some one gives it as a gift ect.But dont ask me -I have my set as well as the 4 from black belt-the old set with colorado line & the defence set.These are mine & for my sons viewing.I did not film or have any thing to do with these & I will not break 501 & 506 codes.


----------



## Edmund BlackAdder

monkey said:
			
		

> Im so glad you saw the video but no skill was told of.& Robert Lee just saw some of my jkd seminars I can say (he did not say or try any defermation.)Yes I showed original 1981 as well as state rep & a current Master & Guardian.As far as life time over it-No it was to be renewed with Remy every year nottake advantage of his passing.1999 was the latest my ranks were up dated.Now I see you failed to also note I had signed pictures from Tom bolden-Inosanto-Allen Joe-Tom Tackett & many more as well as other ranks of other arts that dont require yearly up grade.& hold rank in Doce Pares and other arts as well.


This part: "As far as life time over it-No it was to be renewed with Remy every year nottake advantage of his passing.1999 was the latest my ranks were up dated."

Remy A. Presas died in August 2001.
You stated that your certificates were to be renewed every year.
That is a 2 year gap, therefore one may conclude that they were expired at the time of his passing.

Additionally, it has been my experience that those organizations that require certificate renewal issue new certificates upon renewal. They do not "white out" and change the date. Based on my offline discussions with several Modern Arnis instructors, this was the case with Remy.

Either way, waving old certs with white-out on them is a questionable action, and one which will get some well deserved public scrutiny.  Why didn't he issue you new ones, with the correct dates then?

So, continuing to answer the "Who Is" question:
You are the California Representative for George Mazek's "Modern Arnis International Ju-Jitsu Karate Association", http://republika.pl/modernarnis/e_index.htm


Some definitions for you too Tom:
*Lie / Liar*:A lie is a statement made by someone who believes or suspects it to be false, in the expectation that the hearers may believe it. Thus a true statement may be a lie if the speaker thinks it is false. Fictions, though false, are not lies. Depending on definitions, a lie can be a genuine falsehood or a selective truth, a lie by omission, or even the truth if the intention is to deceive or to cause an action not in the listener's interests.
*Fraud*: An intentional misrepresentation, concealment or omission of material fact done with the purpose of deceiving another which causes detriment to that person.
*Libel*: Libel is written defamation; untrue words written down as opposed to said aloud.
*Slander*: False and defamatory spoken words tending to harm another&#8217;s reputation, business, or means of livelihood. Slander is spoken defamation; libel is published.
*Defamation*: Injury to a person's character, fame, or reputation *by false and malicious* statements.


----------



## monkey

The site clearly shows I am the cailf rep & 99 was the last I got of hold of George Mazec.So I stated fact Maybe I trained in other atrs for other skill or are you content to call a lier even though its on the site Im the re. Even though it was in a national mag showing my rank & stated by Dr Barber & I happen to know Randy Shea as well-He has seen my ranks & not 1 had white out or ever have life time member on it.Too bad you only ook at the bad or read the bad and asume that only.My dates were clean & clear  but sounds like too much for you to handle so you cling to 1 person determined to write bad & never talked of how I perform or signed photos ect.Ask Lee on this sight he has seen my jkd video & will tell you I dont white out any thing.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Just adding my personal 2 cents here:
Tom sent me a video which in addition to containing several historical clips, and some clips of him doing various techniques and part of a seminar, included a video tour of several certificates and patches. I didn't see any obvious doctoring of anything. I'll rewatch it again later when I have more time.

Tom,
  Regarding the clips of you on there, if you'd like, I can pull them from the disk and make them available online. Just need your permission to do so.


----------



## MJS

Hopefully, if he makes it to the July camp in Cromwell, I'll see Dr. Schea.  What better time to get any questions I have answered.  I'll be sure to post his replies. 

Mike


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## monkey

You can put clips I have no proplem with that!( Just let black addler know it isnt doctored or all me in the tapes as he already posted a thred insinuating Im a lier.)That kinda of hurts my good name & art & Ive done nothing to him.


----------



## kruzada

Perhaps you mean "Makabagong" Arnis de Mano, which I believe can be used to mean "Modern" in certain instances. My Modern Arnis certificate from the Philippines, that I received in 1998 (prior to the establishment of IMAFP) says "Bagong Samahan ng Makabagong Arnis sa Pilipinas". "Bagong" means new, "Samahan" means club or society.

Just FYI, the official language of the Philippines is "Pilipino" which is derived from Tagalog. Some Filipinos find it offensive, especially if they are not Tagalog, if you refer to the national language as Tagalog.

-Rich Acosta



			
				Rocky said:
			
		

> On rare occassion Professor used the Filipino name of ( and forgive me if the spelling is wrong, 1 or 2 letters off and it says Crazy arnis instead of Modern Arnis ) but here goes any ways  " Mahgabong Arnis DeMano"  I know how to say it but not spell it if there are any Filipinos that can speak or more importantly spell Tagolag maybe they can correct it. At least I think its Tagalag, I have the proper spelling on some old seminar T-shirts I will look it up when I have a chance.
> 
> Rocky


----------



## monkey

Just as a question has any one ever seen a tapi tapi rank or de tranka from the other lines.I know when I spoke some philippino to them they did not grasp it.Just wondering if their ranks have philippino on them?


----------



## Guro Harold

kruzada said:
			
		

> Perhaps you mean "Makabagong" Arnis de Mano, which I believe can be used to mean "Modern" in certain instances. My Modern Arnis certificate from the Philippines, that I received in 1998 (prior to the establishment of IMAFP) says "Bagong Samahan ng Makabagong Arnis sa Pilipinas". "Bagong" means new, "Samahan" means club or society.
> 
> Just FYI, the official language of the Philippines is "Pilipino" which is derived from Tagalog. Some Filipinos find it offensive, especially if they are not Tagalog, if you refer to the national language as Tagalog.
> 
> -Rich Acosta


Rich,

This is great info!!!

Thanks,

Palusut


----------



## Rick Wade

Hey Tom

I just got your video here I appreciate you sending it so quick.  Just one question in it you show certificates that you have earned then you show pictures of you in the Army and then show pictures of all of these patches.  Two of the patches I have concern with.  One patchis is the IKKA patch (Kenpo)  Did you ever study Kenpo?  and the other patch is special warefare unit (SEAL)   were you ever in the Navy or instructed Navy SEALs?  

Just a coupel of quest not accusing or anything.

V/R

Rick


----------



## monkey

Im mitose kempo & I did meet Granmaster Parker & film a few session.The kempo patch is from a friend of mine who is American Kempo & signed it for me.Chuck Eperson.A great player & no bad for guitar.The Seal patch came from a seal member of team 4 & I had the chance to train him while in the army.Didnt know he was a seal & I didnt care.That patch was given as a thanks.I respect him for that.I was Air born Sgt. 1st class.


----------



## Edmund BlackAdder

I look forward to the videos.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

I'd be interested in seeing the videos as soon as Bob gets them up, as well. I get the impression that -- although perhaps a little addled and puch-drunk from too many sticks to the head, as well as not having worked English as a first language in writing for too long -- he may, in fact, have been there/done that before a whole new generation of guys started MA.

I've actually seen stuff like this in kenpo...some oldster comes out of the woodwork after having been on the sidelines for decades. Because he blacked under Parker, or an early Parker BB, before guys like Tatum & Trejo even started kenpo, there are many in the arts -- including "seniors" who had never heard of them, met them, etc. Yet, when you find a dinosaur (one of the guys who was a senior before the new generation of seniors started), they will have clear recollection of the fellow having trained at the house, Pasadena, whatever.

It will be intriguing to see how this gentleman moves; I suspect much of the proof will be in the pudding. 

Regards,

Dave


----------



## Rich Parsons

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> I'd be interested in seeing the videos as soon as Bob gets them up, as well. I get the impression that -- although perhaps a little addled and puch-drunk from too many sticks to the head, as well as not having worked English as a first language in writing for too long -- he may, in fact, have been there/done that before a whole new generation of guys started MA.
> 
> I've actually seen stuff like this in kenpo...some oldster comes out of the woodwork after having been on the sidelines for decades. Because he blacked under Parker, or an early Parker BB, before guys like Tatum & Trejo even started kenpo, there are many in the arts -- including "seniors" who had never heard of them, met them, etc. Yet, when you find a dinosaur (one of the guys who was a senior before the new generation of seniors started), they will have clear recollection of the fellow having trained at the house, Pasadena, whatever.
> 
> It will be intriguing to see how this gentleman moves; I suspect much of the proof will be in the pudding.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave




Dave et al,  (* by the way Tom: "et al" is a latin term used to mean "and others". Not an insult. *)

I never said that Tom Carnes was not there, nor was he there. I do not know. But when he starts out wiht who are these guys? It sounds all commerical like to me and that he has ot make a name for himself by bad mouthing others, pushing of rank and titles, and name dropping, versus just making it on his skill alone.


----------



## Rich Parsons

MJS said:
			
		

> Hopefully, if he makes it to the July camp in Cromwell, I'll see Dr. Schea. What better time to get any questions I have answered. I'll be sure to post his replies.
> 
> Mike




Mike,

If you can also talk to Brian Z as he was around in the early 80's as well and can also contact others who were around in the late 70's. 

Also pass my best wishes along to the Dr Schea and the rest.


----------



## James Patrick

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=546041&postcount=8

considering Mr. Carnes understanding of Ninja guns, can't wait to see the tape...


----------



## MJS

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Mike,
> 
> If you can also talk to Brian Z as he was around in the early 80's as well and can also contact others who were around in the late 70's.
> 
> Also pass my best wishes along to the Dr Schea and the rest.


 
Will do Rich!  I see Brian on a regular basis. 

Mike


----------



## Rich Parsons

MJS said:
			
		

> Will do Rich!  I see Brian on a regular basis.
> 
> Mike



I figured you might


----------



## Edmund BlackAdder

I await them with baited breath and corn freshly popped. opcorn:


----------



## monkey

How funny-the waiting.Not sure what He will clip If its some of the b/w that was full contact I had no pads & attacter shin pad only to protect from original impact.All hits are hard & fast.If he clips some of the Vegas school its hard hits & no pads but controlled enviorment.If he clips some os the 8mill from Joses school Im in all black-not hard to find as I have retained my mustache from then. i I also pause a short clip so its seen as me .Now he might clip some of the 2004-6 seminars I did & this will have a break down of some & some controlled contact at regular speed.As for those people you mentioned-Not 1 of them( people you posted) were on the original line from Philippines.They might have herd of me yet I dont know them & they were not part of my group or Jutnicks or Farris or Triggs to name a few.But I have had many a phone calls with Randy Shea-He confirms my ranks-films & teaching authintic as well as Dr Barber-Tom Bolden-Steven K Dowed-Robert Briggs-Ed Farris-Leonard Trigg ect.


----------



## monkey

Special note 1- certificate from Ernsto I show ( also have 1 from Jose Presas reads  Samahan ng Makabagong Sining ng Arnis sa Philipinas  or Moder Arnis Association of the Philippines.! not show is The International Philippne Martial Arts Federation under that  is Samahang Sabansaan ng sining Marsiyal ng pilininas then the tear drop flag & Ito Ay Isang Pagpapattunay na si  ( be it know that)Tom Carnes  Ay maluwalhating nakapagtapo,nakaunawa at nakatupad ng mga pamamaraan sa sining marsiyal at siya pinagkaklooban ng antas na  or haveing satisfactory compleated & assimulated the art teachnique & traing of the art & the discipline appertataing there unto is here by awarder rank of Master & Guardian  At bilang katibayan na iginawad sa amin nang may kapangyarihan ay ipinagkaloob namin sa kanya itong katibayan ng pagtatapos  in testimony whereof & by the authority vested on us we do confer upon him this Master & Guardian of Kuntao-Arnis  Iginawad ngayong ik ng  sa taon ng ating panginoon isang libo at siyam na raan at  given this 20th day of Sept in the year of our lord ninteen houndred & 84  signed by Ernesto Presas & Leonard Trigg who is Puno ng Pagtaas of Promotion Chaiman.I hope I spelled all right.Its a 11 by 14 certifacate & like most at that sime it looked like sheep skin parchment  or rice paper type.I never asked but they are cool certificates & Both Remy & Ernesto no longer use them.They stopped around 86 or 87 I think-not sure.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Special note 1- certificate from Ernsto I show ( also have 1 from Jose Presas reads Samahan ng Makabagong Sining ng Arnis sa Philipinas or Moder Arnis Association of the Philippines.! not show is The International Philippne Martial Arts Federation under that is Samahang Sabansaan ng sining Marsiyal ng pilininas then the tear drop flag & Ito Ay Isang Pagpapattunay na si ( be it know that)Tom Carnes Ay maluwalhating nakapagtapo,nakaunawa at nakatupad ng mga pamamaraan sa sining marsiyal at siya pinagkaklooban ng antas na or haveing satisfactory compleated & assimulated the art teachnique & traing of the art & the discipline appertataing there unto is here by awarder rank of Master & Guardian At bilang katibayan na iginawad sa amin nang may kapangyarihan ay ipinagkaloob namin sa kanya itong katibayan ng pagtatapos in testimony whereof & by the authority vested on us we do confer upon him this Master & Guardian of Kuntao-Arnis Iginawad ngayong ik ng sa taon ng ating panginoon isang libo at siyam na raan at given this 20th day of Sept in the year of our lord ninteen houndred & 84 signed by Ernesto Presas & Leonard Trigg who is Puno ng Pagtaas of Promotion Chaiman.I hope I spelled all right.Its a 11 by 14 certifacate & like most at that sime it looked like sheep skin parchment or rice paper type.I never asked but they are cool certificates & Both Remy & Ernesto no longer use them.They stopped around 86 or 87 I think-not sure.




Tom Thank you so very much for this post. 

The Cert was signed by Ernesto Presas and Leonard Trigg and NOT Remy Presas for Guardian of Modern Arnis. This explains a lot. As at that time GM Ernesto Presas was using the term Modern Arnis, but later chose to use Kombaton to avoid such confusion.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

I just did a google on "Tom Carnes+Arnis" and only got a few hits. One was another thread here.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8547


----------



## monkey

Special note-Remy & Ernesto 1979-81 did teach as brother & all ranks from him or Remy are know as authentic as well as respected.& if you note the prior rank from Ernesto which is on the dvd I snt to Mr.Huubard says Kuntao Arnis as I do hold 1 from Jose dated 1978.This dose not mean that is is out dated or no longer good,Ernesto & Remy joined & thought it would benifate the art to renew the ranks at the same time be profitable.So Those who may have rank & broke off Like Jeff Daniels or HocHockeman do not for 1 second feel that they are frauds becouse they dont attend your seminars or join your club.John Lennon said it the best & I quote (The people who come to see us & buy all our records & posters ect are not the true fans,they are groupies.The true fan will come up shake  hands & state thats a realy nice song,is tit common time & what inspired you to write it.) I short what I said & you must or should reread the post 1 shown In part philippino terms as it was the original cerficate used by Jose & I show the patch that went with it.The one not show was a more current rank as I kept up with Remy & Ernesto as 1 art(this was how I saw it & was trained,)Now Remy stated on the Black belt tapes he was not trained by his dad Jose.He claimed his grandfather Jose did.Stoke was the grand father & had no Jose in his name.Interesting.No famliy art passed to Remy.Ernesto did take lessons from Jose as well as I.This by no means I still didnt have time with Remy.My ranks state I did as my videos.


----------



## The Game

I've tried reading through this, but so much of it is confusing and hard to follow.


----------



## monkey

To break it down for you Jose Presas y Bonco taught Ernesto the family art.Remy did not learn the family art but ,had some Balintawak-doce pare-karate-jujisu-& i think some panandata! Which explain the staff work that he tought to Kelly Wardon & gave Datu for.My ranks simply state 1-I had time under Jose 2-I had time under Remy 3- I had time under Ernesto.Dont denounce others as they had time & broke off or never joined some club or Assosiation.There are many out there who had privates,This will not ever exclude their skills or ranks.Semianrs are not the only way( or good way for rank).It' s intent(the seminars) was for studentds of the teacher of that school to see who tought him/her.That was it but, later become a money & easy rank thing.Soon seminars posted every were & now( You can train with founders or close to it.)Plus you can earn you rank if you join the assosiation.Yet another money thing.Good intent but htere are some out there who what lots.Ive seen post for may of them.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> To break it down for you Jose Presas y Bonco taught Ernesto the family art.Remy did not learn the family art but had some Balintawak-doce pare-karate-jujisu-& i think some panandata which explain the staff work that he tought to Kelly Wardon & gave Datu for.My raks simply state 1-I had time under Jose 2-I had time under Remy 3-dont denounce others as they had time & broke off or never joined some club or Assosiation.There are many out there who had privaotes,This will not ever exclude their skills or ranks.Semianrs are not the only way or good way for rank.It intent was for studentds of the teacher of that school to see who tought his/her.That was it but later become a money & easy rank thing.




Tom you are wrong yet again.

GM Remy Presas had part of the family art, maybe not all of it, but enough to add it into what he later called Modern Arnis. 

I agree that when he would fight or spar seriously with you he used his Balintawak which a Rocky will state is mostly Moncal and some Maranga influence. 

As to the rest I cannot speak about all he studied, but I will answer what I know.

As to saying I should not discount you.

Ok Tom I am the Supreme Grand Mejestico Puh Bah of Modern Arnis, I have can get a cert for it, but let us not even bother with that.  You are going to question my title are you not? In particular if you have never heard of seen me. I also come on board and start telling everyone that they are all wrong and ONLY I KNOW he Truth. Drop some names and make some references to a long time ago and expect that no one is still alive or is around. 

This has happend before and in other arts as well, but the problem is that these little gorths of truth become so large that they no longer resemble truth at all. 

Then assume I type so bad that NO ONE and I mean NO ONE can read your posts with jsut one pass. They have to read it many times and try to understand who the heck you are replying to be it in the current thread or in another thread totally different form where you post. 

You do not represent yourself well.

You do not answer questions but with names and claims.

There are those who have stated you are wrong both here and on the Ninjutsu forum. You are fast loosing any possibility of respect you might have left. 

I say this because if you were truly around and did train with these people then maybe just maybe you might have something to offer. 

Yet it is you who first makes claims that others should not have titles or who are they, and then you get all defensive when people do nto know you and do nto accept your answers of see my video and look who I trained with. 

Go slow, type your reply, even type it in Word and use a spell checker. Experss yourself coherently and concisely and maybe just maybe people will begin to understand you. 

PS: No excuse about age and or eye site. My Dad who is afraid of Computers, is now able to get online and type slowing and be able to send a message or even buy a stock or two. He is 65 going on 66. He goes slow, he does not rush, he takes his time. Try this and maybe it will help.


----------



## Rocky

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I agree that when he would fight or spar seriously with you he used his Balintawak which a Rocky will state is mostly Moncal and some Maranga influence.
> 
> As to the rest I cannot speak about all he studied, but I will answer what I know.
> 
> As to saying I should not discount you.
> 
> Ok Tom I am the Supreme Grand Mejestico Puh Bah of Modern Arnis, I have can get a cert for it, but let us not even bother with that. You are going to question my title are you not? .


 

First a lot of Remys Staff and close quarters off setting ( Empty Hand ) came from Tjarkata ( I know I spelled it wrong ) Its heavilly Indonesian.

Secondly I was wondering if Rich could promote me? I always wanted to be  " The Dean of the first international Modern Arnis Academy of Female Jello Stick fighting......  Our Mission State will be " Better body mechanics through less clothing"  Off course all of our little *hotties*...I mean girls... will get nothing but the best *"Hands on"* teaching available from yours truely!!


Rocky

 "My wife says some guys play hard to get......I play hard to want"......I don't get it???


----------



## monkey

Mr.parson dont get me wrong on the balintawak.As a base that means start but, not nessecaly the whole or strong part of the art.Bruce Lee had Wing chun as a base.His strong was epie.


----------



## Kreth

monkey said:
			
		

> His strong was epie.


This is exactly the type of thing Rich was talking about. WTF does that sentence mean?!


----------



## monkey

A simple tech of the art would know the topic was Balintawak.From there it referd to the past post I made & his referance to the post.Now the next step is an example  to refer to so what is said (if to tech.) now broke down, but, it apears furtur break down is in order.I thought the arts were undrestood or are you just there to bad rep the way the teaching are.My ways are harsh on how I speak & teach but, if you take  your  time  insted of hastily moshing.You will see its quite logical & detailed.


----------



## Kreth

monkey said:
			
		

> I thought the arts were undrestood or are you just there to bad rep the way the teaching are.My ways are harsh on how I speak & teach but, if you take your time insted of hastily moshing.You will see its quite logical & detailed.


Your background is a whole other story. I'm referring to your apparent lack of ability to put together a coherent post. Use a spell-checker, have someone proof-read for you. Your posts make you appear uneducated and are a large part of the resistance you've met on this forum (your LOOK AT ME! attitude accounting for the rest).


----------



## monkey

Some times i do have the look at me .Hey when you train privote with the best.You want to pass it on.Then comes those who train seminar only & call you fake do to fact your not part of thier club.The art is the art.Talk the art & I am more then cohereant.Some things might be bit hard as I say it & its read-But over all the meaning is sound.


----------



## crushing

monkey,

May I quote you?  Thanks!


----------



## Kreth

monkey said:
			
		

> Some times i do have the look at me .Hey when you train privote with the best.You want to pass it on.Then comes those who train seminar only & call you fake do to fact your not part of thier club.The art is the art.Talk the art & I am more then cohereant.Some things might be bit hard as I say it & its read-But over all the meaning is sound.


----------



## MJS

monkey said:
			
		

> Some times i do have the look at me .Hey when you train privote with the best.You want to pass it on.Then comes those who train seminar only & call you fake do to fact your not part of thier club.The art is the art.


 
The big difference here Tom, is that you're making it sound like you were "THE" only one who has ever trained with Master Presas or any of the top people!  There are many who have trained with the Prof., the MoTT, as well as many other top people in other FMAs. 

Perhaps taking a step down from the high horse you seem to be riding, and not being so evasive would be a good start.





> Talk the art & I am more then cohereant.Some things might be bit hard as I say it & its read-But over all the meaning is sound.


 
Ummm..many are talking about the art, and still can't understand what the heck it is you're trying to say.  While your intentions may be good, its hard for some to get the point of what you're trying to say, if they can't read what you're typing!

Mike


----------



## monkey

Thats how you take it,if you look at it as some one who wants to pass on the art great.But from day 1  all doubt ranks-time ect.Even though it was clearly published & Mr Hubbard even saw my ranks are not white out or tampered with.The art I did  with Jose Presas y Bonco (the fauther to Remy & Ernesto )was Kuntao Arnis.Now Mr Hubbard has the film of the old school-some of my Army time-some of my privates I tought & some 2004-6 footage.I never said I was the only one,but many jump on me for they have not seen it.Well they were not there.How is it those from the 90s got to be heirs on who did what from the past.The art is the art.1979-80 Remy & Ernesto tought as brothers in Sacramento,I am in the class picture.there are others but I dont see any of you nor the Fma!This is not to say you didnt have time-I had time-My ranks are clean-legal & clear.So I have no choice but to defend my self as you cant see the ranks or me teach & same gose for you-I cant see your ranks or how long you trained-or if it was just seminars(were you obtained your ranks),I did private with Jose & privates  with Remy & Ernesto.I have rank for that time1981-1999.This will not ever say Im out of date.Maybe you werent tought what I had & you might want it as an all around total art,or even for historical resogns.


----------



## MJS

monkey said:
			
		

> Thats how you take it,if you look at it as some one who wants to pass on the art great.But from day 1 all doubt ranks-time ect.Even though it was clearly published & Mr Hubbard even saw my ranks are not white out or tampered with.The art I did with Jose Presas y Bonco (the fauther to Remy & Ernesto )was Kuntao Arnis.Now Mr Hubbard has the film of the old school-some of my Army time-some of my privates I tought & some 2004-6 footage.I never said I was the only one,but many jump on me for they have not seen it.Well they were not there.How is it those from the 90s got to be heirs on who did what from the past.The art is the art.1979-80 Remy & Ernesto tought as brothers in Sacramento,I am in the class picture.there are others but I dont see any of you nor the Fma!This is not to say you didnt have time-I had time-My ranks are clean-legal & clear.So I have no choice but to defend my self as you cant see the ranks or me teach & same gose for you-I cant see your ranks or how long you trained-or if it was just seminars(were you obtained your ranks),I did private with Jose & privates with Remy & Ernesto.I have rank for that time1981-1999.This will not ever say Im out of date.Maybe you werent tought what I had & you might want it as an all around total art,or even for historical resogns.


 
I can assure you Tom, that I do not get my training just from seminars. I attend class and private lessons on a regular basis. I have a great group of people and a fantastic organization that I train under.  As I said in another post, with a little digging, much info. can be obtained.  

In addition, you've made it very clear as to who you've trained under.  I really don't see why you feel that you have to keep repeating yourself.

In closing, I wish you the best in your training.

Mike


----------



## Guro Harold

It seems that everyone has had a chance for questions and answers for now. .


----------



## monkey

Thanks-the resogn for bringing it up is if i dont then others will whoed you train with -what rank are you ect,Ive seen what been said about the Datus.That rank should never had been given.Some even whent as far as their name istn right with the tilte.Such as the title Master.Now some names work but,Mr. Bates debated with Remy & got a higher title for it.It took me 6 years to aquire Master title.Some got a small ttile for Commitioner.That was a gut buster rank.Now if you want to talk the art & how to utilies it,I can do that but ,from what Ive seen mostly on the sites is not so much of the art but,is a dog or cat best!Religion in the arts!I know topics are a bit hard to find-but the art was the topic.Or supose to be not on how much as 1 posted who got my dvd.(It clear he has skills-the poor qualitly of the 1 camera & shows his ranks.I will continue to watch (morbitly)just to see it.        This is one example of how some wont see the art but rather choose to see nothing.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Rocky said:
			
		

> First a lot of Remys Staff and close quarters off setting ( Empty Hand ) came from Tjarkata ( I know I spelled it wrong ) Its heavilly Indonesian.
> 
> Secondly I was wondering if Rich could promote me? I always wanted to be " The Dean of the first international Modern Arnis Academy of Female Jello Stick fighting...... Our Mission State will be " Better body mechanics through less clothing" Off course all of our little *hotties*...I mean girls... will get nothing but the best *"Hands on"* teaching available from yours truely!!
> 
> 
> Rocky
> 
> "My wife says some guys play hard to get......I play hard to want"......I don't get it???



But Rocky, You are already are! You must just go DO and it will be done.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Mr.parson dont get me wrong on the balintawak.As a base that means start but, not nessecaly the whole or strong part of the art.Bruce Lee had Wing chun as a base.His strong was epie.



Example of name dropping. What does Bruce Lee have to do with this disucssion?

Example of not taking the time. My Name is Rich Parsons. You can call me Rich as others do or Mr Parsons if you want. That is with a "s" at the end of my name. By not caring enough to worry about a person's name you show disrespect. If you do not know their name and one uses their TAG or USER ID displayed where my name is, then that is fine as well. 

I understand Base and Start and Beginning. Do you? 

I have a question for you. 

First you state that GM Remy A Presas does not have the Family System, and then Later you Claim to be the Guardian and Master of Modern Arnis, signed bu GM Ernesto Presas and Prof Leonard Trigg. So this means you DO NOT HAVE the system that GM Remy Presas taught. You have something compeltely different. This is fine. So please stop talking about your one seminar with Both GM Remy and GM Ernesto and their Father. 

Haivng Balintawak as an Art I know and Teach, and also Having Modern Arnis as an Art I know and Teach, I know their are differences between each art. The story from GM Remy himself is that he watched and trained while his GrandFather taught a Bolo crew. Since there is more to Modern Arnis in the way of strieks that are Blade work then there are in Balintawak (* Balintawak is optimized for Stike Striking *), I wonder where GM Remy got his training from then? If not from his Grand Father as Family then from who?


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Mr.parson dont get me wrong on the balintawak.As a base that means start but, not nessecaly the whole or strong part of the art.Bruce Lee had Wing chun as a base.His strong was epie.



Whose Strong Point was "Epie"?

GM Remy Presas 

Bruce Lee


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> A simple tech of the art would know the topic was Balintawak.From there it referd to the past post I made & his referance to the post.Now the next step is an example to refer to so what is said (if to tech.) now broke down, but, it apears furtur break down is in order.I thought the arts were undrestood or are you just there to bad rep the way the teaching are.My ways are harsh on how I speak & teach but, if you take your time insted of hastily moshing.You will see its quite logical & detailed.




DUDE you are so wrong!

A simple Technique? Is this what you are trying to say? Of Balintawak is the Epie? You are so far from the truth it is funny. 

As to understood:

If you were coherenet people could follow.

People do understand both Modern Arnis and Balintawak here. Ithink it is you who do nto understand them. 

As to Logical and Detailed? I beg to differ as you cannot even answer a simple YES or NO Question I ask you. 

You quote yourself and name drop and through in RED herrings to get people off topic. No Logic in there, other than to get the topic off on something else.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Some times i do have the look at me .Hey when you train privote with the best.You want to pass it on.Then comes those who train seminar only & call you fake do to fact your not part of thier club.The art is the art.Talk the art & I am more then cohereant.Some things might be bit hard as I say it & its read-But over all the meaning is sound.



DUDE,

GM Remy lived with Rocky. When he was not there he was traveling, and this was for a long time. Later he got a house and lived elsewhere. 

Yet, we had lots of Private lessons with him. We would pay his full Seminar Fee and Fly him in and train with just our small club oh say 8 people splitting the cost. We would train like this for the weekend or for a week it was his down time. 

As to seminars, I have been escorted out of them before by GM Remy because he would say to our group, "Hmmm They are not ready for you yet." Most of my training came from either the Old Man himself or from those he taught in 70's. 

This is just another example of how you come across bad, and how you make it seem like only you were the ONE to train with GM Presas. 

As to speaking the Art, you have said little I have heard that GM Remy himself say. Once again you make it sound like others do not get you, when all the rest of us can communicate just fine. 

If everyone has a problem with you and only you, then maybe just maybe it is not the rest of the world but you yourself who has the problem communicating.


----------



## Rich Parsons

MJS said:
			
		

> The big difference here Tom, is that you're making it sound like you were "THE" only one who has ever trained with Master Presas or any of the top people! There are many who have trained with the Prof., the MoTT, as well as many other top people in other FMAs.
> 
> Perhaps taking a step down from the high horse you seem to be riding, and not being so evasive would be a good start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm..many are talking about the art, and still can't understand what the heck it is you're trying to say. While your intentions may be good, its hard for some to get the point of what you're trying to say, if they can't read what you're typing!
> 
> Mike



Gee the MoTT's: Hmmm Dr. Randy Schea started in the Early 80's (* not sure of the date and do not wish to be toof ar off *) and I believe and Brian Z started in 1982. So I guess these guys have not been around at all.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Thats how you take it,if you look at it as some one who wants to pass on the art great.But from day 1 all doubt ranks-time ect.Even though it was clearly published & Mr Hubbard even saw my ranks are not white out or tampered with.The art I did with Jose Presas y Bonco (the fauther to Remy & Ernesto )was Kuntao Arnis.Now Mr Hubbard has the film of the old school-some of my Army time-some of my privates I tought & some 2004-6 footage.I never said I was the only one,but many jump on me for they have not seen it.Well they were not there.How is it those from the 90s got to be heirs on who did what from the past.The art is the art.1979-80 Remy & Ernesto tought as brothers in Sacramento,I am in the class picture.there are others but I dont see any of you nor the Fma!This is not to say you didnt have time-I had time-My ranks are clean-legal & clear.So I have no choice but to defend my self as you cant see the ranks or me teach & same gose for you-I cant see your ranks or how long you trained-or if it was just seminars(were you obtained your ranks),I did private with Jose & privates with Remy & Ernesto.I have rank for that time1981-1999.This will not ever say Im out of date.Maybe you werent tought what I had & you might want it as an all around total art,or even for historical resogns.




:Lhdfs
 dsljh  dsisdfnsdf kioen  iosefd oie s;ldjh iewjd;j e shd;s eisd;h :lfd;lid Guardian ;ljhdf;ljfsd;lkfsd ;lkjdsf;lk Master ;kjdf;lkjfsdfsjsdfl;kfsd Lee ;lsd;lifsdj;lfsdic;li Presas ;lkdshj;ldijfsd;lkjfds;lijdf;lfdksj

Do you understand what I just type? 

This is how you came across to most if not all those present here. 


Once again you state that people were not there. Where were you you?
Why not just accept that fact that some people did not meet eachother do to geographical location.  No everyone must stop what they are doing and spend time with you and keep you honest and stop making misleading and false information, and also try to help you communicate.

Do not get me wrong one can be iliterate and still fight.  I am not calling you that, what I am saying is that you do not communicate well at all. 


Never tested at a summer camp or seminar. We always Flew GM Remy in for a testing. This did lead to Jeff Delaney calling me a liar about this, hence why I do not critique him or his org at all for I know I cannot keep an open mind with him for personal reasons.  


Yet this is not the issue here. If you jsut came online and answered questions.  Gave good solid posts and they had information that people could read and understand and learn from, then this would not be an issue.  Instead you try for force your rank and titles on us and then force us to translate your poor typing.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Thanks-the resogn for bringing it up is if i dont then others will whoed you train with -what rank are you ect,Ive seen what been said about the Datus.That rank should never had been given.Some even whent as far as their name istn right with the tilte.Such as the title Master.Now some names work but,Mr. Bates debated with Remy & got a higher title for it.It took me 6 years to aquire Master title.Some got a small ttile for Commitioner.That was a gut buster rank.Now if you want to talk the art & how to utilies it,I can do that but ,from what Ive seen mostly on the sites is not so much of the art but,is a dog or cat best!Religion in the arts!I know topics are a bit hard to find-but the art was the topic.Or supose to be not on how much as 1 posted who got my dvd.(It clear he has skills-the poor qualitly of the 1 camera & shows his ranks.I will continue to watch (morbitly)just to see it. This is one example of how some wont see the art but rather choose to see nothing.




You say you want to talk the art.

Then talk the art and explain some technqiues. 

Not just post who you trained with and have the attitude of OH Look at me. 

6 years for Master Title.  Sir I turned down and disappointed GM Remy when he  offered rank and titles because I did not think I would need them. I had what I had learned.  I still do not use the term nor ask people to call me as such, it is used in our Club as per the instruction of our Senior Master. 

Titles are the issue here with us. It seems to be your concern. Drop it and also stop the name dropping and add content as you say you want too and maybe you can shar the art as you say you want too.


----------



## Rocky

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> DUDE,
> 
> GM Remy lived with Rocky. When he was not there he was traveling, and this was for a long time. Later he got a house and lived elsewhere.
> 
> Yet, we had lots of Private lessons with him. We would pay his full Seminar Fee and Fly him in and train with just our small club oh say 8 people splitting the cost. We would train like this for the weekend or for a week it was his down time.
> 
> As to seminars, I have been escorted out of them before by GM Remy because he would say to our group, "Hmmm They are not ready for you yet." Most of my training came from either the Old Man himself or from those he taught in 70's.
> 
> This is just another example of how you come across bad, and how you make it seem like only you were the ONE to train with GM Presas.
> 
> As to speaking the Art, you have said little I have heard that GM Remy himself say. Once again you make it sound like others do not get you, when all the rest of us can communicate just fine.
> 
> If everyone has a problem with you and only you, then maybe just maybe it is not the rest of the world but you yourself who has the problem communicating.


 
Back in the 70s when Remy first came to michigan the hot spot was Flint and from day. There were a number of guys training most came and went most never amounted to anything other then seminar people..... But I know fro a fact that *JIM POWER* and his crew of people were there from day one, and that the old man spent a lot of time privately with *JIM* and his guys.....*Rich*...being one of the guys!!! He would do a seminar and then spend a day with one on one training with a handfull of guys....

 The reason Remy like the Flint crew ( ONCE the fly by nights were weeded out ) was because JIm and his crew never wanted anything other then the art, no one was kissing his *** for rank or trying to get anythin out of him.


Rocky


----------



## Rocky

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Never tested at a summer camp or seminar. We always Flew GM Remy in for a testing. This did lead to Jeff Delaney calling me a liar about this, hence why I do not critique him or his org at all for I know I cannot keep an open mind with him for personal reasons.


 
This from a guy who has has how much training with Remy????  The fact that everything he has comes from a seminar is scary..... I have found there is a hugh difference between personal students and summer camp student.


Rocky


----------



## monkey

1st the  tech. was short for technition of the art not technique.So lets talk the art (Sounds great.)1-palis palis was  used by Remy & found in the Doce pare line also.To other arts like Kali the term Hubud can be use as referance.This drill gave great Rythem & Timeing as well as being able to respond to live attacks.Now Remy also used the term rampida I think this is right for the up & down.Arnis of the Modern Line  deployed some empty hands (as Remy often said You know the stick,you know the art.)Some teachings due to distance or they werent ready were differant or distored.Example the De tranka had tapi tapi-knife defence-empty hands defence of the 13 counter for counter-stick defence-standing center locks to name a few.The 80-85 modern Arnis(which I just sent Mr.Hubbard a copy of as well as De tranka) had lower body attack with the stick or blade-sicaron type kicks & kuntao type defence.De tranka did how ere show the rare Abinico corto or close cutting/fanning art.It can be translated as short cut as well.


----------



## monkey

To answer the question of were did Remy get the Balintawak?He was good friend with Bobby Tabosa & Erwin Carmicheal.Erwin dose show up in Remys Pratical defence tapes 1-3.


----------



## Blotan Hunka

I think this posters main writing issue is that he doesn't use commas.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> 1st the tech. was short for technition of the art not technique.So lets talk the art (Sounds great.)1-palis palis was used by Remy & found in the Doce pare line also.To other arts like Kali the term Hubud can be use as referance.This drill gave great Rythem & Timeing as well as being able to respond to live attacks.Now Remy also used the term rampida I think this is right for the up & down.Arnis of the Modern Line deployed some empty hands (as Remy often said You know the stick,you know the art.)Some teachings due to distance or they werent ready were differant or distored.Example the De tranka had tapi tapi-knife defence-empty hands defence of the 13 counter for counter-stick defence-standing center locks to name a few.The 80-85 modern Arnis(which I just sent Mr.Hubbard a copy of as well as De tranka) had lower body attack with the stick or blade-sicaron type kicks & kuntao type defence.De tranka did how ere show the rare Abinico corto or close cutting/fanning art.It can be translated as short cut as well.




The five special strikes of Modern Arnis:

UP and Down
Rompida
Band y Banda
Abinico
Figure 8

Other terms used were Palis Palis and Crossada.

No where can I think of Palis Palis being like Hubud. Other than it is a type of flow drill.  Maybe I am wrong as I am not an expect on JKD and it's Hubud. But I thought it was a four count move where one hard blocks or checks then inserts the other hand  traps with the original hand and strikes with the other hand. 

Can you describe how Palis Palis works? My understanding is not the same as the Hubud Drill listed above.


----------



## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> To answer the question of were did Remy get the Balintawak?He was good friend with Bobby Tabosa & Erwin Carmicheal.Erwin dose show up in Remys Pratical defence tapes 1-3.



OK

First you did nto understand me. You said  that Remy did not have the Family System I said he did. You then now change it to where did he get Balintawak from and that if from Boby Taboada and Erwin Carmicheal? 

This is 100% Wrong about GM Remy getting Balintawak from Gm Bobby Toboada.

GM Remy trained in GM Moncal as a Lefty in Balintawak. He then trained with GM Maranga who introduced him to GM Bacon. All of Balintawak. Both Moncal and Maranga did not do 100% Bacon's style and Remy admitted this, when he would introduce Manong Ted Buot of Balintawak and or tell some of his students to go train with Manong Ted. 

Erwin trained with Remy before training with Tobaoda.


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## monkey

To the question whos strong point was Epie balintawak or Bruce Lee.If you read it you would see a dot that ended the Balintawak I i specified Bruce Lee did wing Chung as Base .His strong point was epie.That is so simple -how could some one of your skills not pay attention to the end of the sentence.  Let me exsplain it for your. your so eagor to find fault im me & wont read the dot is the end ............


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## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> To the question whos strong point was Epie balintawak or Bruce Lee.If you read it you would see a dot that ended the Balintawak I i specified Bruce Lee did wing Chung as Base .His strong point was epie.That is so simple -how could some one of your skills not pay attention to the end of the sentence. Let me exsplain it for your. your so eagor to find fault im me & wont read the dot is the end ............



No Sir not eager to find fault, but eager to try to turn you into a positive member. You preivous posts were all over. Non continuous thoughts, that flowed back and forth. To assume would be an error on my part. So I asked for clarification.


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## monkey

Hubud to tie & untie.This is not Jeet kune do,Inosanto has it in kali.It is not a 4 count drill.If you see some one do 4 count-they dont know hubud-It has Locks-throws-kicks-puches much like a sparring type drill.Mr Hubbard has seen me do some in privote & I gave him a full view of what it look like in an advanced form.This was performed by Ernesto.Now the palis palis has the same type of drill.The angle of attacks are diferant but the results are the same.Rythem & timing-speed-power-simulate real attacks with control & able to react.The palis palis has the box patern & hubud has a rise slap & hit.palis palis is a lift & gunt or lock or palm to face.This footage was just sent to Mr. Hubbard toady of Remy doing this in 1984-5.


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## PeteNerd

Just a general observation on this thread, for being practicioners of a Filipino Martial Art, you guys are being pretty harsh about Monkey's grammar.  Give the guy a break, obviously english isn't his first language.  As far as his claims or whatever I don't really have any comment

Pete


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## Rich Parsons

PeteNerd said:
			
		

> Just a general observation on this thread, for being practicioners of a Filipino Martial Art, you guys are being pretty harsh about Monkey's grammar. Give the guy a break, obviously english isn't his first language. As far as his claims or whatever I don't really have any comment
> 
> Pete



Pete,

I do believe that he answered that English is his first language. 

Thank you for your note though.


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## monkey

If you have a copy of the De tranka tapes Remy clearly states I know Balintawak as major art & I mixed it with the family art.These tapes have Dr.Shea-Delanay-McManan-Chuck Knughst or something of that.Never met him or asked how its spelled & there were a few others.


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## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Hubud to tie & untie.This is not Jeet kune do,Inosanto has it in kali.It is not a 4 count drill.If you see some one do 4 count-they dont know hubud-It has Locks-throws-kicks-puches much like a sparring type drill.Mr Hubbard has seen me do some in privote & I gave him a full view of what it look like in an advanced form.This was performed by Ernesto.Now the palis palis has the same type of drill.The angle of attacks are diferant but the results are the same.Rythem & timing-speed-power-simulate real attacks with control & able to react.The palis palis has the box patern & hubud has a rise slap & hit.palis palis is a lift & gunt or lock or palm to face.This footage was just sent to Mr. Hubbard toady of Remy doing this in 1984-5.



Tom,

It is good of you to say what I say was not all of hubud. 

It is good of you to explain the more with locks, etcetera, as this is what I know Palis Plais or Flow drill as in the advnaced form. As you said the box is to the beginning sequence. Then you can go from there. 

It is not good to continue to keep trying to make the point that it is in your video. And the Mr. Hubbard has it. I am sure Mr. Hubbard is fine with the new tape. I am sure you have such tapes or you would not offer to send them.  It is just not required for this discussion.


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## monkey

Nationality of the monkey  my mom had Spanish-indian-& philippino.My dad was African-chinese & Itainal decent.I speak bits & peices of differant.Not around long enough to get whole languue.I speak english but some of what is off British line.So If I spoke that youd be lost.


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## Rich Parsons

monkey said:
			
		

> Nationality of the monkey my mom had Spanish-indian-& philippino.My dad was African-chinese & Itainal decent.I speak bits & peices of differant.Not around long enough to get whole languue.I speak english but some of what is off British line.So If I spoke that youd be lost.



Ok Monkey,

What country did you learn to speak in first? 

What country did you spend most of your time? 

You claim to have been in the US since the late 70's per teh Modern Arnis psots and earlier per your JKD and Bruce Lee posts. Say around the early 70's at least. This gives you over 35 years in the USA. 

So I ask again what is your native language. 

Not what you can speak or how many languages you speak a little of , but what is the language you use every day to buy food and gasoline, and what languauge if it is different did you use while in school?


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## monkey

I know bits of spanish as it dose mix with the phlippino.Example some arts use uno-doce-  philippino  uses isa - dilawa, Now they both have redondo-corto-e spada y daga to name a few.


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## monkey

Now it is true I was with Bruce Lee 1968-9 from 1975-8 I was with Jose Presas in the Philippines.1979-early 80 Sacramento Ca.1980 I had a school in Vegas Nv for 3 months.Joined the army for 8 yrs.I had time in China for KuntaoMonkey(1989) as well as Tai Chi & Paqua.When my teacher died in 89 I continued from Earl Montaigu & hold a black sash for Tai chi & paqua.I also had Kosho kempo & have a master from Tom Mitose & Arnold Gulb.My last art to study was Doce Pare & I hold Instructor from Jonus Mayo.


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## shesulsa

What Is Your Primary Language?

Qual Es Su Lingua Primera?


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## monkey

I will say a ebonic type english.I can speak it good , but writtieng isnt the best.This should help a bit.Cheekie but dont be daft.


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## monkey

Got to go teach.Ill be back tomarrow.Maybe some footage will be up on posts then.Have to go teach.Cant sit all day & talk.I cant do computors all the time.I have to teach.Mabuhay Balisolomet.


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## PeteNerd

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Pete,
> 
> I do believe that he answered that English is his first language.
> 
> Thank you for your note though.



Right on... I've read a lot of stuff written by Filipinos, in english, and it really reminded me of that.  They can speak english really well, but when writing the grammar is all messed up.  I'm the same way in tagalog and visayan, i can speak it so so, but i can't write for a damn.

Pete


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## Rich Parsons

PeteNerd said:
			
		

> Right on... I've read a lot of stuff written by Filipinos, in english, and it really reminded me of that. They can speak english really well, but when writing the grammar is all messed up. I'm the same way in tagalog and visayan, i can speak it so so, but i can't write for a damn.
> 
> Pete



Pete,

This was asked on multiple threads early on, Only he replied he speaks English and other languages. 

As I cannot speak or write many languages at all I understand that. I just expect the person to answer the question of what is your first language. This helps us understand.


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## modarnis

Rocky said:
			
		

> The reason Remy like the Flint crew ( ONCE the fly by nights were weeded out ) was because JIm and his crew never wanted anything other then the art, no one was kissing his *** for rank or trying to get anythin out of him.
> 
> 
> Rocky


 
And it was amazing how much good training he would give in exchange for a hot meal and some genuine interest in him, his story and his art


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## BlackCatBonz

Did you train with Tom Mitose and Arnold Golub?
Arnold Golub was never allowed to issue rank in Kosho ryu, his position as headmaster was strictly clerical.
Is this around the time that Hanshi Juchnik and Tom Mitose were working together?


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## Don Roley

monkey said:
			
		

> I had time in China for KuntaoMonkey(1989) as well as Tai Chi & Paqua.




So you are claiming to have learned Kuntao in China?????

Kuntao is an _Indonesian_ art based on Chinese arts taken there. Even I know that.

And I know that the stories you have been telling about your ninjutsu training in that section is almost as silly as the stuff we heard from Bruce Calkins. Why hasn't this thread been moved to horror stories or the great debate? As far as I can tell, there is a hell of a lot of claims, none of them seem provable and Tom Carnes doesn't seem to know all that much about martial arts at all, let alone the ones he is claiming to be the keeper of the flame of.

I think the stuff Edmund found and posted on page one is the most revelvant stuff posted so far.



> Interesting reading here.
> 
> I spent some time on Google after reading the linked threads, searching on here, and a few other sites.
> 
> Very little information out there on this person.
> 
> Here is what I found. Unfortunately, not a lot.
> ==
> Information:
> http://www.jkd.com.hk/eng/forum/repl...8&level=2&all=
> 
> http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...p/t-12817.html
> "TRUUF SEEKER
> 09-07-2005, 05:08 AM
> Seriously, watch out for Tom Carnes. From first hand experience I can tell you that he is a fraud, and borderline delusional. I've seen his JKD certificates. Did bruce make his students fill out their certificates themselves, in their own handwriting? Was he really an orphan raised at the Shaolin Temple and given the title "Master" in monkey kung fu? Too many of his stories seem contrived and do not match up. He does teach seminars, and there is no doubt he posseses skills and techniques, but I question background and credentials. I, and many others, have an uneasy fear of this man. If you have a similar experience, please post."
> "Taomonkey
> 05-17-2002, 09:11 PM
> Most of these trading guys are collectors, and retards, who only send back crap, and hold on the the best for themselves.
> The worst out there is a guy named Tom Carnes, of Chico, Cali. THis guy pormised the sky, footage of my teachers long dead Master from the Islands, told stories about his great experience, his great certificates, how all these families named him inheritor, how he trained with Bruce Lee, and it went on. I figured this guy was a nut, but wanted the video he claimed he had. so I sent him a tape. some footage from comercial tapes and some of me doing a demo in downtown Tulsa. WHat I got back was junk, video of him, video of some philippino's where he claimed it was him, pictures of all his (forged) certificates (I checked several out) and an offer to come and do seminars for us for $500 plus bus fare. Oh and he sent me a rank certificate. I sent him that back. For a year the guy called my house almost weekly. then he sent me three more tapes of the same low quality crap, and told me about his great video system.
> The moral,
> If you want it, you probally have to buy it.
> Dont ever send out vidoe of your teacher or yourself to some guy you dont know.
> And if Mr. (self professed Master) Tom (Monkey Man) Carnes calls you, tell him he's a fake, and hang up."
> 
> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group...t=I SO-8859-1
> __________________


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## monkey

Hey Don you should check.Indonisia is not the only place for Kuntao.Even the Sytem of systems or Rusians use some form of it.They claim they are the founders of their arts.Now for you to post such a claim I dont know martial arts & I fordge my Ranks.That is set for law suit.I don try to defame you or your name-hence you should meet them befor you state such.Bob Hubbard has seen my ranks & videos & will tell you I hold skill.Also I never stated Keeper of the flame.Thats your words & set for law suit.


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## Guro Harold

*Mod Note:*

*Thread temporarily locked per review.*

*Palusut*
*Senior Moderator*


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