# FBI moving back to 9mm



## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2014)

The FBI is Going 9mm: Here Comes the Science | The Loadout Room

This information was published by Loose Rounds on September 21, 2014.
After the Miami Shootout in 1986, the FBI invented modern ammunition testing and led the law-enforcement movement to .40 caliber. The FBI is very conservative, and has one of the best ballistics labs in the world.
With the amazing 21st-century advances in ammunition technology, many people have advocated a move back to 9mm. Recently, the FBI announced they were buying a new gun in 9mm. When the FBI makes a move like that, they have thought it through very thoroughly.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 30, 2014)

So the FBI studies have confirmed what I've been saying for a long time. It's nice to know that my experience (which I am well aware falls into the category of anecdotal rather than scientific evidence) holds true.


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## Buka (Oct 30, 2014)

The one thing you can count on in Law Enforcement - they'll change up their weapons every ten years or so. I suppose that's a good thing, I don't know. Might be a budget issue, sometimes there's extra money in the budget that has to be spent or it's gone.

F.B.I guys - you can even spot them on Halloween in costume.


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2014)

Buka said:


> The one thing you can count on in Law Enforcement - they'll change up their weapons every ten years or so. I suppose that's a good thing, I don't know. Might be a budget issue, sometimes there's extra money in the budget that has to be spent or it's gone.
> 
> F.B.I guys - you can even spot them on Halloween in costume.



Whats funny is my department just went to 40s from 9mm like 3 years ago we are so behind the curve


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## Buka (Oct 30, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> Whats funny is my department just went to 40s from 9mm like 3 years ago we are so behind the curve



Ain't it crazy? I started with an old wheel gun, a big old Smith and Wesson 38. Then we went to nines, then to 45 Sigs. I've been retired for several years, but I heard they're going to switch again.

I guess as long as they give us ammo, we'll be okay.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 30, 2014)

Buka said:


> Ain't it crazy? I started with an old wheel gun, a big old Smith and Wesson 38. Then we went to nines, then to 45 Sigs. I've been retired for several years, but I heard they're going to switch again.
> 
> I guess as long as they give us ammo, we'll be okay.



I wish someone would give *me* ammo! That stuffs expensive...


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I wish someone would give *me* ammo! That stuffs expensive...


I think we are hiring


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 30, 2014)

I'm too old to start change careers and become a cop, and I doubt that your force needs someone in my field...


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## ballen0351 (Oct 30, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm too old to start change careers and become a cop, and I doubt that your force needs someone in my field...



Plus the commute would suck. 1703 miles one way lol  We could use a medical professional we are dropping like flies around here everyone's getting hurt


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## Grenadier (Oct 30, 2014)

A nice choice, as long as they pick a good load.  Just about any premium hollowpoint will do just fine for their purposes.  Winchester Ranger or PDX1, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Hornady Critical Duty, etc., will all do fine in the 9 mm caliber.  Today's designs have a much wider optimal velocity range, and do a much better job of consistently expanding, compared to the ones from a few decades ago (back when speed was everything when it came to expansion).  

There really wasn't anything wrong with the sub-sonic 165 grain Federal Hydrashok that they were using for quite a while.  It's a mildly recoiling load that has a nice combination of penetration and expansion, and actually quite accurate.  

For that matter, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the 115 grain Winchester Silvertip that was used during the 1986 Miami firefight.  The bullet did exactly as it was supposed to do, penetrate a certain amount, and expand a certain amount.  The main problem, is that the Silvertip bullet hit Platt's arm first, and then entered his chest.  Any duty caliber's premium hollowpoint would probably have done the same. 

Had Special Agent Risner not struck the arm with that shot, I doubt the whole hoopla of having to switch calibers would have ever occurred.  

Then again, some positives did come from this, that we got the fine cartridge, the .40, which is as good of a manstopper as any common handgun caliber.


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## Grenadier (Oct 30, 2014)

On another note, maybe there will be a nice flood of trade-in Glock 22 and Glock 23 pistols...


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## Kong Soo Do (Oct 31, 2014)

Buka said:


> The one thing you can count on in Law Enforcement - they'll change up their weapons every ten years or so. I suppose that's a good thing, I don't know. Might be a budget issue, sometimes there's extra money in the budget that has to be spent or it's gone.
> 
> F.B.I guys - you can even spot them on Halloween in costume.



Yep, an agency will change weapons every so often as weapons start to get a high round count.  Often a manufacturer will offer a deal that can't be passed up.  So often it is a budgetary consideration.  We went from Beretta 9mm to Glock .45 about 10 years ago.  Not that there was anything wrong with the nines, but the Beretta's were getting old and Glock made an offer.  

Just isn't a lot of difference these days between service calibers.

pretty sure the Bureau was using the PDX1 in .40.  Be interesting to see what they use in 9mm.  We use Speer GD.


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## PhotonGuy (Nov 1, 2014)

Buka said:


> Ain't it crazy? I started with an old wheel gun, a big old Smith and Wesson 38. Then we went to nines, then to 45 Sigs. I've been retired for several years, but I heard they're going to switch again.
> 
> I guess as long as they give us ammo, we'll be okay.



Any handgun will do. No handgun will do that well, if you really want a good effective weapon to stop somebody you've got to go with a long gun. So as long as they give you ammo that's good.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 1, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> Any handgun will do. No handgun will do that well, if you really want a good effective weapon to stop somebody you've got to go with a long gun. So as long as they give you ammo that's good.



I don't know my handgun was pretty effective at stopping the bad guy


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## PhotonGuy (Nov 1, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> I don't know my handgun was pretty effective at stopping the bad guy



Sure if you hit them in the ocular cavity, it can be a hard target to hit especially in the heat of a fight. A rifle is much better though, you can hit them in the thoracic cavity and its much more likely to stop them than with a handgun.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 1, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> Sure if you hit them in the ocular cavity, it can be a hard target to hit especially in the heat of a fight. A rifle is much better though, you can hit them in the thoracic cavity and its much more likely to stop them than with a handgun.


Lol ok buddy.


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## Grenadier (Nov 1, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> Sure if you hit them in the ocular cavity, it can be a hard target to hit especially in the heat of a fight. A rifle is much better though, you can hit them in the thoracic cavity and its much more likely to stop them than with a handgun.



How about we stay on topic here?  Long guns aren't relevant to this discussion, since we are, after all, talking about switching handguns and calibers.   If you want to start a discussion on long guns vs handguns, feel free to do so in another topic.


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