# More videos from the lightning quick warrior



## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2013)

Almost everybody here is familiar with this video:






So I dug up and found a couple of more videos of him demonstrating/light sparring with other people:











You probably already know this, but his name is Shi De Jian. A warrior monk who lives above the Shaolin temple in a secluded location. He's a master of a method called Xin Yi Ba, which, as I understand it, is a method developed by implementing farming movements into combat. This guy is as close as you get to a real life Pai Mei. (the guy who taught Uma Thurman how to fight in Kill Bill 2) 

This is a video of one of his students also demonstrating the technique:






And guess what was the first dumbass reaction when I posted this in another website? You guessed it. "This guy can't beat Anderson Silva". Oy Vei.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 16, 2013)

$20 says i could hypothetically take Shi De Jian in his sleep using a weapon. :lurk:
PS: Its a fun little hobby of mine, pointing that out whenever absolute praise is showered on a martial arts person. Im mostly being polite, and not talking about him directly.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

There's nothing in those clips that convinces me that this guy has better fighting ability than any other competent martial artist.

I'm not saying he's bad, just that these videos don't show him doing anything exceptional.

Gnarlie


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 16, 2013)

I watched through most of the videos and didn't see any sparring, light or otherwise.  It's all demonstrations.

He seems competent at what he does, but it's definitely a lot easier to look good when you're working with a cooperative demo partner who delivers slow, telegraphed attacks and then leaves his extended punch hanging out in mid-air for you to grab and manipulate.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I watched through most of the videos and didn't see any sparring, light or otherwise.  It's all demonstrations.
> 
> He seems competent at what he does, but it's definitely a lot easier to look good when you're working with a cooperative demo partner who delivers slow, telegraphed attacks and then leaves his extended punch hanging out in mid-air for you to grab and manipulate.



Exactly. The only 'sparring'in these clips is pre-arranged, and bears little to no relation to real-time sparring or fighting.

Mr President, respectfully, what in your experience constitutes sparring?

Gnarlie


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## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2013)

Gnarlie said:


> Exactly. The only 'sparring'in these clips is pre-arranged, and bears little to no relation to real-time sparring or fighting.
> 
> Mr President, respectfully, what in your experience constitutes sparring?
> 
> Gnarlie



The 4th video down. Surely there is some light, friendly sparring there. The other guy isn't standing still and isn't offering anything. 

Besides, can we please focus on the skills and the method instead of whether or not I used the word "sparring" correctly?


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> The 4th video down. Surely there is some light, friendly sparring there. The other guy isn't standing still and isn't offering anything.
> 
> Besides, can we please focus on the skills and the method instead of whether or not I used the word "sparring" correctly?



I don't see anything that's not pre-arranged.

Certainly we can focus on any aspect you wish. What specifically about the skills and method is it that you would like us to focus on? As I said, there's nothing especially astounding here, just a competent martial artist doing slow technique demonstrations. Most of the people here will do this kind of thing fairly often.

It's not that clear from your original post WHY you made the post.  What was your point?


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 16, 2013)

For the record Shi Dejian is the real deal and works really hard to keep the martial arts of Shaolin and from what I have read is just as annoyed as the rest of us, possibly more, at the direction Shaolin has gone.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 16, 2013)

These are a really common type of demonstrations, but he seems, IMO, really fluid at the motions, even if they are prearranged. Won't make a definite comment about his "fighting skills" until i see an actual sparring match, but I'm fairly impressed by the demonstrations


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## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2013)

Gnarlie said:


> I don't see anything that's not pre-arranged.
> 
> Certainly we can focus on any aspect you wish. What specifically about the skills and method is it that you would like us to focus on? As I said, there's nothing especially astounding here, just a competent martial artist doing slow technique demonstrations. Most of the people here will do this kind of thing fairly often.
> 
> It's not that clear from your original post WHY you made the post.  What was your point?



What goes on in the 4th video seems fairly random to me, so I called it sparring.

Are you familiar with Xin Yi Ba? As I understand it, it's a method that not even all warrior monks get to practice, and I think this guy is the best at it.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

Xin Yi Ba is new to me, but I'm not sure that it's so different to many other martial styles if the videos you are posting are anything to go by.

You seem to have posted quite a bit about this guy. What is it specifically about the method and what he is doing that you find so inspirational compared to other martial artists? I'm keen to understand what desirable qualities you perceive in the way he moves.


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## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2013)

Gnarlie said:


> Xin Yi Ba is new to me, but I'm not sure that it's so different to many other martial styles if the videos you are posting are anything to go by.
> 
> You seem to have posted quite a bit about this guy. What is it specifically about the method and what he is doing that you find so inspirational compared to other martial artists? I'm keen to understand what desirable qualities you perceive in the way he moves.



I'm finding it difficult to find a consistent answer about the origin of the method. There's a story about a man named Ji Jike, who invented the method some time in the 17th century, after seeing a cock fight. (Again, the animal motive in Wushu) Another source says it's about farmers implementing farming motions into combat.

Either way, what I like about it the speed of reaction from the monk. There's a video I haven't posted yet where a chinese boxer is trying to hit him with a quick jab but he ducks too quickly and counters so fast the boxer can't respond. There's a joke running on YouTube that if you shot this monk, he would dodge the bullet and then knock the bullet out with an elbow.

I think reaction speed is the key to all martial arts. If yours is faster than your opponent's, you are far more likely to win.

Plus, it seems appropriate for smaller, weaker people. Their build would make it easier for them to dodge and weave in a combat and utilize their small stature to overwhelm the opposition.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 16, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> I think reaction speed is the key to all martial arts. If yours is faster than your opponent's, you are far more likely to win.


This. This here. Read it. It's not Xin Yi Ba that has good reaction time, its a trained martial artist that does (assuming from a self defense method, bit different in "sparring matches").Him having good reaction speed isnt a praise of his martial art so much as his own personal integrity...if he has good reaction speed. Considering im pretty sure mpost of these were for demonstrations, implying he already knew how he would react and what he would  react too, I can't definitively say how good his reaction speed is.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

kempodisciple said:


> This. This here. Read it. It's not Xin Yi Ba that has good reaction time, its a trained martial artist that does (assuming from a self defense method, bit different in "sparring matches").Him having good reaction speed isnt a praise of his martial art so much as his own personal integrity...if he has good reaction speed. Considering im pretty sure mpost of these were for demonstrations, implying he already knew how he would react and what he would  react too, I can't definitively say how good his reaction speed is.



I agree, I don't think these videos indicate much about the guy's ability improvising under pressure. Even in the 'sparring' portion in the last video, the attacks are fairly uniform, predictable, one dimensional and pretty slow. Again, to reiterate what I said earlier, I'm not implying that this person is not a good martial artist, I just don't see why Mr President believes that he stands out above all others...


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## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2013)

kempodisciple said:


> This. This here. Read it. It's not Xin Yi Ba that has good reaction time



I didn't say that. You ignored the part where I wrote: "it seems appropriate for smaller, weaker people. Their build would make it easier for them to dodge and weave in a combat and utilize their small stature to overwhelm the opposition."

The style seems to be one where reaction time might be more critical than a more offensive martial art, like Muay Thai. A very aggressive Thai boxer would need good reaction time, but since he would spend much of the time on offense and have his hands in front of his face for defense, it might be a tiny bit less vital than a style where you keep a low stance and retaliate after an attack was launched and successfully evaded.

Again, don't take this as an absolute literal meaning comment. I'm just musing. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it. 




> I just don't see why Mr President believes that he stands out above all others



Well, he is a Shaolin warrior monk. That alone gives him a lot of credibility, doesn't it?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 16, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> I didn't say that. You ignored the part where I wrote: "it seems appropriate for smaller, weaker people. Their build would make it easier for them to dodge and weave in a combat and utilize their small stature to overwhelm the opposition."



I know its not what you meant. I specifically took it out of context, because IMO what i wrote is true, what you wrote may or may not be. So i took what you said, and stated part of what you said, while not insulting you by denying the rest. Now for the rest:almost every martial art, with the exception of some sport ones which focus on weight/size classes, has ways for smaller people to defeat bigger people. They also almost all have ways for bigger opponents use their size to their advantage (although, they still have to learn the other things as well). As for weaker: no martial art would imply there techniques work better for weak people then strong people...they might work nearly equally for both, but would not favor weak people (If someone studies a style that favors weak people, not knows of, studies, please correct me with the style  )



> The style seems to be one where reaction time might be more critical than a more offensive martial art, like Muay Thai. A very aggressive Thai boxer would need good reaction time, but since he would spend much of the time on offense and have his hands in front of his face for defense, it might be a tiny bit less vital than a style where you keep a low stance and retaliate after an attack was launched and successfully evaded.
> 
> Again, don't take this as an absolute literal meaning comment. I'm just musing. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.


 Even as just musing, I would have to disagree. Offensive and defensive martial arts both need good reaction speed, you never know when the counters coming 
Even with your hands in a better place to react, you still need the reaction speed, just maybe relying on it less heavily (although I highly doubt shaolin monks dont place their hands somewhere thats good to react from...would be pointless otherwise.





> Well, he is a Shaolin warrior monk. That alone gives him a lot of credibility, doesn't it?


Credibility...maybe. Never looked enough into shaolin warrior monks. Credibility and standing out are two different things. What makes shaolin warrior monks or him in particular stand out above other martial artists from other styles? 

Sorry if this post was blunt, but otherwise I doubt you would be willing to understand what I am trying to say.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 16, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> it seems appropriate for smaller, weaker people. Their build would make it easier for them to dodge and weave in a combat and utilize their small stature to overwhelm the opposition.



Hehe. I dunno about that. I tend to just grab a smaller persons head. Doing so has yet to fail me.
Sure, you have to work with your strengths, but a disadvantage cant be turned into an advantage.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 16, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> Well, he is a Shaolin warrior monk. That alone gives him a lot of credibility, doesn't it?



Credibility perhaps, but no more than other martial artists from other styles (depending on perspective) and certainly not in terms of martial ability. There's no free ride on reputational credibility - what specific aspects of what he does makes you believe that he is better than other martial artists?

Gnarlie


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## Mr. President (Apr 17, 2013)

kempodisciple said:


> Even as just musing, I would have to disagree. Offensive and defensive martial arts both need good reaction speed, you never know when the counters coming
> Even with your hands in a better place to react, you still need the reaction speed, just maybe relying on it less heavily (although I highly doubt shaolin monks dont place their hands somewhere thats good to react from...would be pointless otherwise.



You're basically agreeing with what I said. You just phrased it differently.



> Credibility and standing out are two different things. What makes shaolin warrior monks or him in particular stand out above other martial artists from other styles?



Who said anything about standing out? I was just impressed by his movements so I posted the video. That being said, I think it's fair to say that monks go through severe body conditioning drills that would distinguish them from other martial artists.



> There's no free ride on reputational credibility - what specific aspects of what he does makes you believe that he is better than other martial artists?



Again - I never said he's the world's greatest fighter. I just love the style and technique he uses, which is why I posted the videos. You're attributing a lot of statements to me even though I've never said them.


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## Mr. President (May 1, 2013)

A great video about the distinction between performance and practicality of Shaolin Kung Fu, including Shi Dejian and the practice of Xin Yi Ba. If you have 40 minutes to spare, watch it. It's in Chinese, with English subtitles throughout.


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## Cyriacus (May 1, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> Again - I never said he's the world's greatest fighter. I just love the style and technique he uses, which is why I posted the videos. You're attributing a lot of statements to me even though I've never said them.



You dont need to be calling him the worlds greatest fighter in order for this whole thread to basically be about why you think hes superior on some level.



Mr. President said:


> Who said anything about standing out? I was just impressed by his movements so I posted the video. That being said, I think it's fair to say that monks go through severe body conditioning drills that would distinguish them from other martial artists.



And i, a lowly yellow belt, could take them all out in their sleep.


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## Mr. President (May 1, 2013)

Cyriacus said:


> You dont need to be calling him the worlds greatest fighter in order for this whole thread to basically be about why you think hes superior on some level.



I don't know what "superior on some level" means. 



> And i, a lowly yellow belt, could take them all out in their sleep.



That sounds like a completely reasonable and appropriate self evaluation of your skills.


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## Josealb (May 9, 2013)

Good discussion, guys. My two cents:

Speed is good, but timing is everything. You really dont need to be faster to counter something, you just need to chose the right moment. Try countering something that you know its coming, how its coming, where its aimed at, from what angle, etc, and you can almost move in slow motion (compared to the other guy), because you know. Just by knowing, or reading intention, or just creating the scenario you want to cause a specific reaction, gives you the upper hand without having to be faster. I call it Groundhog Day Fighting. =D

Also Shi De Jian is very, very skilled. You can say, well, if we don't see him fight, how do we know he can? Sure, its fair. but its also fair to notice that he has all the ingredients to fight well, and make an educated guess. There's allot you can accurately guess when you just look for the quality of movement, structure, frame, intention, whole body motion, etc. 

There, my two cents.


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## Cyriacus (May 9, 2013)

Mr. President said:


> That sounds like a completely reasonable and appropriate self evaluation of your skills.



Skill isnt even a factor, mate.


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## Xue Sheng (May 9, 2013)

Said it before and I'll say it again, and I will leave it at that

Shi Dejian is the real deal as far CMA goes, he is fara from all show. He is also rather unhappy with the state of Shaolin these days and has trained rather hard to get the fighting skills of Shaolin back into the Shaolin styles and not have Shaolin show forms and Sanda for fighting.

OK, I'm done storming the castle...have at me...time for tea


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