# I hate the TSA!



## Dirty Dog (Nov 20, 2013)

My in-laws flew in for a week long visit. It's been great seeing them. We took them to the airport this morning for their flight home.

We check their bags, get them as far as you can go if you're not ticketed, and head home. 30 minutes after their flight leaves, we get a call.

Seems the TSA thinks my 80 year old mother inlaw, with her prosthetic hip and knee, needs extra attention. They pulled her out and did everything short of a cavity search. Went through her purse and carryon, groped her, scanned her, swabbed her, used their little wands... the whole thing. Turns out it was because some sequins on her shirt upset one of their pieces of technojunk.

By the time they get through the TSA, they missed their flight.

Fortunately, the airline was able to get them on a later flight.

I get the need for airport security. I really do. But from what I've seen in my own travels, and what I've heard from others, the TSA isn't security. It's just a way for minimum wage gropers with room  temperature IQs to steal your iPad. Oh, and confiscate your tweezers. Gotta make sure you don't pluck someone to death.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 21, 2013)

I dont understand why old people dont get a free pass....................Oh Wait


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## granfire (Nov 21, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I dont understand why old people dont get a free pass....................Oh Wait



was that explosive dope?


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## ballen0351 (Nov 21, 2013)

granfire said:


> was that explosive dope?



Not this time.  Give old people a free pass and watch and see how fast they strap a bomb on an old lady.


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## Rumy73 (Nov 28, 2013)

Crying about airport security is pathetic. While the TSA is far from perfect, I will gladly take it, rather than suffer the consequences. Terrorist groups have used all kinds of people as bombers. Better safe than sorry. I suggest arriving early at the airport than biotching about it.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 28, 2013)

What consequences?

The TSA has caught 0 terrorists.  It's not security, it's theater.  I for one want security, not a make work program for sex offenders, mall cop rejects and petty thieves.


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## granfire (Nov 28, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> Crying about airport security is pathetic. While the TSA is far from perfect, I will gladly take it, rather than suffer the consequences. Terrorist groups have used all kinds of people as bombers. Better safe than sorry. I suggest arriving early at the airport than biotching about it.



The point is that in other places security works without strip searching people and fondling children. 
The TSA is about show not substance, and frankly, people in the security sector should be able to pass a background check! 

So far the terrorists have used the same type of people as bombers...
But, before there was 9/11 there was Oklahoma City....terrorists =/= middle eastern males (but 99% of the time males, non the less)

It's duck and cover all over again, just this time we were happy to sign our rights away to participate in this charade.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 28, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> Crying about airport security is pathetic. While the TSA is far from perfect, I will gladly take it, rather than suffer the consequences. Terrorist groups have used all kinds of people as bombers. Better safe than sorry. I suggest arriving early at the airport than biotching about it.



The TSA is a dog and pony show. They've eroded personal liberties, but they have not made one person any safer in the air. Not one. 

Confiscating Sue's eyebrow tweezers didn't make anyone safer. But they helped fill up a box of other non-dangerous objects taken from non-dangerous people so the TSA would have something to show the sheeple.

When was the last airline bombing? When was the last time the TSA (not actual law enforcement agencies, but the TSA) stopped a terrorist? 

The 9/11 attack occurred because we, as a culture, have turned our safety over to others. That would be what YOU do, and expect others to do as well. Now THAT is pathetic.
The 9/11 attacks could never have occurred without sheeple. It is absolutely impossible to hijack an airplane with a freaking box cutter if 15 people jump on you. Impossible. And none of those people would need any special training either. Just have the balls to fight back. That's it.

So you go right ahead and turn your safety over to others if you like. Even to those who have shown themselves incapable of actually providing you with any safety. I'll take care of myself, thanks.

The TSA has, however, provided employment to lots of sex offenders and petty thieves.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 28, 2013)

granfire said:


> The point is that in other places security works without strip searching people and fondling children.
> The TSA is about show not substance, and frankly, people in the security sector should be able to pass a background check!
> 
> So far the terrorists have used the same type of people as bombers...
> ...



99% have been male here so far.  However in the middle east bombs are strapped to woman,  and mentally challenged teens and remotely detonated.  They just have not needed to do that yet here.


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## Rumy73 (Nov 28, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> The TSA is a dog and pony show. They've eroded personal liberties, but they have not made one person any safer in the air. Not one.
> 
> Confiscating Sue's eyebrow tweezers didn't make anyone safer. But they helped fill up a box of other non-dangerous objects taken from non-dangerous people so the TSA would have something to show the sheeple.
> 
> ...



Good luck and fly libertarian airlines, tubby


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 28, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> Good luck and fly libertarian airlines, tubby



If that were an option, I'll bet it would be far more profitable (and at *least* as safe) as flying after the TSA mandated colonoscopy. And I'd still have my iPad in my luggage when I arrive.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 28, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> Good luck and fly libertarian airlines, tubby




You do realize that I can go down to my local air strip, and get on a plane with zero TSA screening right?  Right now there are hundreds if not thousands of planes in the air where no TSA paedophile or thief screened, touched, searched or fondled anyone.  



> A federal review concludes theres no solid evidence that airport  checkpoint personnel have a clue when they scan the approaching line for  suspicious passengers.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a999a0-4c93-11e3-be6b-d3d28122e6d4_story.html



> A federal probe of a Transportation Security Administration program to  screen suspicious behavior of passengers at airports suggests the  effort, which has cost almost $1 billion since 2007, has not been proven  effective, according to a report released Wednesday.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nat...ns-unproven/MbyTsQLvXpHp76OuvAZLhK/story.html



> One of the politicians instrumental in creating the TSA, Rep. John Mica,  who wrote the legislation that established the TSA, has apparently  decided that the whole thing has been a failure and should be dismantled.  He notes that "the whole program has been hijacked by bureaucrats."


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ays-its-failed-its-time-to-dismantle-it.shtml

  



 
TSA Department of Molestation Fridge Magnets
 		 			$3.65


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## Tames D (Nov 28, 2013)

TSA is the reason I only travel when I have to. Just don't feel like playing their game.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 28, 2013)

I've never had an issue I don't know what you guys are doing.  I read the rules make sure I do exactly what I'm supposed to do and I've never had an issue.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 28, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I've never had an issue I don't know what you guys are doing.  I read the rules make sure I do exactly what I'm supposed to do and I've never had an issue.



I've never had a problem with them either.  Then again, I've never been raped in prison, .  That whole "avoid putting yourself in harms way" thing. 

On 1 hand I feel bad for the TSA screeners.  The job sucks. Long hours, tons of abuse, poor training, and a hostile work environment.  

On the other hand, in the last 10 years over 500 have been arrested for Theft, murder, child molestation, rape, and prostitution among other crimes.  While that's not a large % given the 55,000+ people currently employed, it's still a high number of people being caught violating trust and breaking laws.  We could expect that there would be background checks, high standards, attention to detail, and so forth, but the reality is they do take a lot of warm bodies and don't look too hard at them if they need to fill positions fast.  The FBI by comparison has 36,000 employees and you rarely hear of them being arrested.



> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transp...inistration#Screening_effectivenessCriticisms have also included assertions that TSA employees slept on the job,[SUP][143][/SUP][SUP][144][/SUP][SUP][145][/SUP][SUP][146][/SUP] bypassed security checks,[SUP][147][/SUP] and failed to use good judgment and common sense.[SUP][148][/SUP][SUP][149][/SUP][SUP][150][/SUP]
> TSA agents are also accused of having mistreated passengers, and having sexually harassed passengers,[SUP][151][/SUP][SUP][152][/SUP][SUP][153][/SUP][SUP][154][/SUP] having used invasive screening procedures, including touching the genitals, including those of children,[SUP][155][/SUP] removing nipple rings with pliers,[SUP][156][/SUP] having searched passengers or their belongings for items other than weapons or explosives,[SUP][157][/SUP] and having stolen from passengers.[SUP][109][/SUP][SUP][158][/SUP][SUP][159][/SUP][SUP][160][/SUP][SUP][161][/SUP][SUP][162][/SUP][SUP][163][/SUP][SUP][164][/SUP]  The TSA fired 28 agents and suspended 15 others after an investigation  determined they failed to scan checked baggage for explosives.[SUP][165][/SUP]
> The TSA was also accused of having spent lavishly on events unrelated to airport security,[SUP][166][/SUP] having wasted money in hiring,[SUP][167][/SUP] and having had conflicts of interest.[SUP][168][/SUP]
> The TSA was accused of having performed poorly at the 2009 Presidential Inauguration  viewing areas, which left thousands of ticket holders excluded from the  event in overcrowded conditions, while those who had arrived before the  checkpoints were in place avoided screening altogether.[SUP][169][/SUP][SUP][170][/SUP]
> ...



The TSA regularly missed guns, knives and even swords. They do however collect a lot of tweezers, nail files, and snow globes. Almost any US airport can be shut down for hours just by walking in the out door.  Unauthorized people gain access to secure zones including the runway countless times each year. 



> [h=3]Unintended consequences of 2002 screening enhancements[/h] Two studies by a group of Cornell University  researchers have found that strict airport security has the unintended  consequence of increasing road fatalities, as would-be air travelers  decide to drive and are exposed to the far greater risk of dying in a  car accident.[SUP][129][/SUP][SUP][130][/SUP]  In 2005, the researchers looked at the immediate aftermath of the  attacks of September 11, 2001, and found that the change in passenger  travel modes led to 242 added driving deaths per month.[SUP][129][/SUP]  In all, they estimated that about 1,200 driving deaths could be  attributed to the short-term effects of the attacks. The study  attributes the change in traveler behavior to two factors: fear of  terrorist attacks and the wish to avoid the inconvenience of strict  security measures; no attempt is made to estimate separately the  influence of each of these two factors.
> In 2007, the researchers studied the specific effects of a change to  security practices instituted by the TSA in late 2002. They concluded  that this change reduced the number of air travelers by 6%, and  estimated that consequently, 129 more people died in car accidents in  the fourth quarter of 2002.[SUP][130][/SUP] Extrapolating this rate of fatalities, _New York Times_ contributor Nate Silver remarked that this is equivalent to "four fully loaded Boeing 737s crashing each year."[SUP][131][/SUP]  The 2007 study also noted that strict airport security hurts the  airline industry; it was estimated that the 6% reduction in the number  of passengers in the fourth quarter of 2002 cost the industry $1.1  billion in lost business.[SUP][132][/SUP]



I drive 3 days each way to TX rather than deal with the keystone theatrics at the airport.  I feel safer.



> Undercover operations to test the effectiveness of airport screening  processes are routinely carried out by the TSA's Office of  Investigations[SUP][113][/SUP] and the Department of Homeland Security Inspector General's office.
> A report by the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General found that TSA officials had collaborated with Covenant Aviation Security (CAS) at San Francisco International Airport to alert screeners to undercover tests.[SUP][114][/SUP]  From August 2003 until May 2004, precise descriptions of the undercover  personnel were provided to the screeners. The handing out of  descriptions was then stopped, but until January 2005 screeners were  still alerted whenever undercover operations were being undertaken.[SUP][115][/SUP]  When no wrongdoing on the part of CAS was found, the contract was  extended for four years. While employees of the firm and TSA were  disciplined, none lost their jobs.[SUP][116][/SUP][SUP][117][/SUP]
> A report on undercover operations conducted in October 2006 at Newark Liberty International Airport was leaked to the press. The screeners had failed 20 of 22 undercover security tests, missing numerous guns and bombs. The Government Accountability Office had previously pointed to repeated covert test failures by TSA personnel.[SUP][118][/SUP][SUP][119][/SUP]  Revealing the results of covert tests is against TSA policy, and the  agency responded by initiating an internal probe to discover the source  of the leak.[SUP][120][/SUP]
> In July 2007, the _Times Union_ of Albany, New York reported that TSA screeners at Albany International Airport failed multiple covert security tests conducted by the TSA. Among them was a failure to detect a fake bomb.[SUP][121][/SUP]
> ...





> [h=4]Luggage locks[/h]  In order to be able to search passenger baggage for security  screening, the TSA will cut or otherwise disable locks they cannot open  themselves. The agency authorized two companies to create padlocks,  lockable straps, and luggage with built-in locks that can be opened and  relocked by tools and information supplied by the lock manufacturers to  the TSA. These are Travel Sentry and Safe Skies Locks.[SUP][99][/SUP]


 If the screener doesn't have the TSA key, or is just feeling lazy, they will cut off the TSA approved locks anyway.



> The TSA has been criticized[SUP][100][/SUP]  for an increase in baggage theft after its inception. Reported thefts  include both valuable and dangerous goods, such as laptops, jewelry[SUP][101][/SUP] guns,[SUP][102][/SUP] and knives.[SUP][103][/SUP] Such thefts have raised concerns that the same access might allow bombs to be placed aboard aircraft.[SUP][104][/SUP]
> In 2004, over 17,000 claims of baggage theft were reported.[SUP][101][/SUP] As of 2004, 60 screeners had been arrested for baggage theft,[SUP][101][/SUP] a number which had grown to 200 screeners by 2008.[SUP][105][/SUP]  11,700 theft and damage claims were reported to the TSA in 2009, a drop  from 26,500 in 2004, which was attributed to the installation of  cameras and conveyor belts in airports.[SUP][106][/SUP]
> As of 2011, the TSA employs about 60,000 screeners in total (counting both baggage and passenger screening)[SUP][107][/SUP]  and approximately 500 TSA agents have been fired or suspended for  stealing from passenger luggage since the agency's creation in November  2001. The most affected airports in the United States include three in  the New York area: JFK, LaGuardia and Newark.[SUP][108][/SUP]
> In 2008 an investigative report by WTAE  in Pittsburgh discovered that despite over 400 reports of baggage  theft, about half of which the TSA reimbursed passengers for, not a  single arrest had been made.[SUP][109][/SUP] The TSA does not, as a matter of policy, share baggage theft reports with local police departments.[SUP][109][/SUP]
> ...



Point blank, if the people we're entrusting to our security can't be trusted what's the value of having them?

Lets look at real cops for a moment.  If real cops were this incompetent, this corrupt, and this power trippy, we'd have serious problems.


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## Rumy73 (Nov 28, 2013)

Tsa, tkd have a lot in common. Mostly theater, very expensive.


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## oftheherd1 (Nov 29, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> ...
> 
> When was the last airline bombing? When was the last time the TSA (not actual law enforcement agencies, but the TSA) stopped a terrorist?
> 
> ...



Sounds to me like it is working. Did I ever tell you about my method that keeps tigers away from me?    :lfao:


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## granfire (Nov 29, 2013)

oftheherd1 said:


> Sounds to me like it is working. Did I ever tell you about my method that keeps tigers away from me?    :lfao:



It's like this joke:
*Q: *Why do Elephants have red eyes?
*A:* So they can hide in a cherry tree

*Q: *Have you ever seen an Elephant in a cherry tree?
*A: *No.
*Conclusion*: See how good it works!


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## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I've never had a problem with them either.  Then again, I've never been raped in prison, .  That whole "avoid putting yourself in harms way" thing.
> 
> On 1 hand I feel bad for the TSA screeners.  The job sucks. Long hours, tons of abuse, poor training, and a hostile work environment.
> 
> ...



When you pay crap you get crap as employees.  The reason the FBI guys don't get arrested as much is because they pay well and have great benefits.  Which translate to way more applications then open positions. So they can raise the standards and be very selective.  When your paying 10 bucks an hour for a screener you get bottom of the barrel employees that just need a job.  

But again I've never had a problem and am not bothered by TSA or extra security steps.  

In my opinion The millions of dollars in lawsuits from the 9-11 attacks is why we have them.  Has nothing really to do with security and more to say "well you can't sue us now we did something."  And private companies don't want to touch it because the next time there is an attack they will be sued into nonexistence.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> When you pay crap you get crap as employees.  The reason the FBI guys don't get arrested as much is because they pay well and have great benefits.  Which translate to way more applications then open positions. So they can raise the standards and be very selective.  When your paying 10 bucks an hour for a screener you get bottom of the barrel employees that just need a job.




*Transportation Security Officer*
 31 TSA (Transportation Security Administration) Salaries
$33,920*Transportation Security Officer - Hourly*
 23 TSA (Transportation Security Administration) Salaries
$14.63/hr*TSA OFFICER*
 8 TSA (Transportation Security Administration) Salaries
$33,443*TSA OFFICER - Hourly*
 7 TSA (Transportation Security Administration) Salaries
$16.50/hr

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/TSA-Transportation-Security-Administration-Salaries-E41347.htm

I still don't think it's too much to ask that the people entrusted with security be 1-honest and 2-professional.

But don't **** with me man.  I've got a snow globe and I'm not afraid to shake it. I'll do it!  I'm serious!  Don't! Make! Me! Shake! It!

ok, now you've had it!





If you were a TSA pedo goon, you;d have wet yourself in terror and be taking this terrorist aside for some special attention!


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## granfire (Nov 29, 2013)

ages 6 and up?
hmm, I think there is need for some pre-K material!


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## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

Easy to take shots at them.  They have an unpopular job I think the number of complaints vs number of total passengers is very small.  If your pissed they took your fingernail clippers well don't bring them and they can't take then.  Either way they didn't set policy they just do what they are told


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## Tames D (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> *When you pay crap you get crap as employees.*  The reason the FBI guys don't get arrested as much is because they pay well and have great benefits.  Which translate to way more applications then open positions. So they can raise the standards and be very selective.  When your paying 10 bucks an hour for a screener you get bottom of the barrel employees that just need a job.
> 
> But again I've never had a problem and am not bothered by TSA or extra security steps.
> 
> In my opinion The millions of dollars in lawsuits from the 9-11 attacks is why we have them.  Has nothing really to do with security and more to say "well you can't sue us now we did something."  And private companies don't want to touch it because the next time there is an attack they will be sued into nonexistence.



I don't think this is a good reson for an employee to take their job less seriously. If you're not happy with your pay, quit and find something that pays better.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Easy to take shots at them.  They have an unpopular job I think the number of complaints vs number of total passengers is very small.  If your pissed they took your fingernail clippers well don't bring them and they can't take then.  Either way they didn't set policy they just do what they are told



I have more respect for mall cops.

"they just do what they are told"  no, they make stuff up.  They don't follow their own rules.

But don't worry.  The TSA is now expanding. They're now going to be at bus stations, train stations, even truck stops.  Their VIPER teams are heading out to infringe on citizens rights all across the US.
[h=3]_T.S.A._ Expands Duties Beyond Airport Security[/h]


> A *Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response team*, sometimes *Visible Intermodal Protection and Response* (*VIPR*, or *VIPER*) is a Transportation Security Administration program. Various government sources have differing descriptions of VIPR's exact mission. It is specifically authorized by 6 U.S.C. § 1112  which says that the program is to "augment the security of any mode of  transportation at any location within the United States". Authority for  the program is under the Secretary of Homeland Security. The program falls under TSA's Office of Law Enforcement.[SUP][1][/SUP]  TSA OLE shares responsibility for the program with the Office of  Security Operations and Transportation Sector Network Management.[SUP][2][/SUP]
> The VIPR teams detain and search travelers at railroad stations, bus stations, ferries, car tunnels, ports, subways, truck weigh stations, rest areas, and special events.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] They also can deploy to deal with CBRNE/WMD (chemical, biological, radioactive, nuclear, and explosive weapons of mass destruction).[SUP][8][/SUP] They also inspect ships, containers, and vehicles.[SUP][9][/SUP]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Intermodal_Prevention_and_Response_team

They'll even be fondling your family at the football game.  Go Team Go! 

one thing to remember.  TSA aren't Law Enforcement.
Only Federal Air Marshals and Transit Police have arrest powers.

Not sure if the person's a real cop?  Kick him square in the tackle.
If he's a real cop, you'll be arrested for "assaulting an leo in the performance of their duties", "assaulting an officer", "interfering with government operations" and 12 other charges.
If not, you get a simple "assault" charge.
So do like Cartman would and kick them "square in the nutz" 

See, real cops need "Probable Cause".  The TSA?  nope.  



> If a patdown is required in order to complete screening:
> 
> 
> The  patdown should be conducted by an officer of the same gender.  Sometimes, passengers must wait for an officer of the same gender to  become available.
> ...


http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/pat-downs



> [h=2]Breast cancer survivor forced to show prosthetic[/h]                                                  Cathy Bossi, a flight attendant for U.S. Airways and a breast cancer survivor,  was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a TSA pat down. The TSA  agent put her whole hand on Bossi's breast asking what she felt and  then asked to see it. Bossi said the experience was horrific.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> [h=2]Cancer survivor leaves humiliated, covered in own urine[/h]
> 
> Bladder cancer survivor, Thomas Sawyer, was left "crying, humiliated and covered with his own urine,"  after a TSA pat down in the Detroit International Airport. Sawyer uses a  urostomy bag which collects his urine in a bag from an opening in his  stomach. TSA agents had no interest in Sawyer's medical condition, and  even when he told them they would easily break his bag, the agent went  ahead with the search, leaving Sawyer covered in his own urine.
> 
> ...





> [h=2]TSA agent felt inside a woman's underwear[/h]
> 
> An ABC employee, Carolyn Durand, chose the pat down  instead of the full body screen. Durand said the female TSA agent who  performed her body search felt inside of her underwear. She described  the situation as embarrassing and inappropriate.
> 
> ...





> [h=2]TSA agent puts hands down radio personality's pants[/h]
> 
> Radio host, Owen JJ Stone,  was searched by a TSA agent who told Stone he had to put his hand down  his pants. Stone chose to have the search done in public, fearing that  in a private room the agent would be more aggressive in his search.
> 
> ...





> A 27-year-old Ph.D. student says a TSA agent touched her vaginal area during a pat-down at a California airport; however, a representative told The Huffington Post the agents followed procedure.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/ashley-jessica-tsa-video_n_3354522.html



> "To say that I felt invaded is an understatement," she wrote in her  blog. "What bothered me most was when she ran the back of her hands down  my behind, felt around my breasts, and even came in contact with my  vagina! Honestly, I was in shock, especially since the woman at LAX  never actually touched me there. The TSA employee at DFW touched private  area 4 times, going up both legs from behind and from the front, each  time touching me there. Was I at my gynecologist&#8217;s office? No! This was  crazy! I felt completely helpless and violated during the entire process  (in fact, I still do), so I became extremely upset."
> Castillo, who was Miss USA 2003 and was a former MTV VJ, said she  talked with a TSA supervisor and filed a complaint on a comment card,  online and via email.
> The TSA has reviewed Castillo's complaint and "found that the officer followed proper procedures."


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42805551/

[h=3]_TSA_ admits to punishing travelers[/h]





> However, when meeting with privacy officials at the Department of  Homeland Security (DHS) and TSA later that month, I was told  unofficially that there were two standards of pat-downs. One for the  normal situation where passengers are going through metal detectors and a  different pat-down for those who refuse to go through the whole-body  scanners.
> With this latest announcement, TSA admits that it has been  clandestinely punishing passengers for refusing to go through the  invasive whole-body scans with an even more intrusive aggressive  pat-down and that soon those more invasive pat-down will creep from  airport to airport.



[h=1]TSA Continues to Forbid Passengers from Recording Despite Policy[/h]





> Despite a TSA policy that clearly states passengers have the right to  video record themselves getting groped by screeners at security  checkpoints, Transportation Security Administration officials still  insist on intimidating passengers from doing so.
> And to make matters worse, local police officers, for the most part,  do nothing to dissuade screeners from abusing their own policies.






> [h=1]The "Enhanced" Pat-Down:[/h]  [h=1]Sexual Assault at the Airport[/h]  The TSA has begun using an "enhanced" pat-down procedure for those who would rather not subject themselves to a full-body scan.
> "To call it a pat-down is a euphemism," said a  spokesman for the ACLU in Massachusetts. Previously, TSA screeners were  required to use the back of their hands when searching sensitive  regions. _*The enhanced pat-down rules allow them to use their palms and fingers to feel, twist, squeeze, and prod passengers*_.
> For many men, women and children, this "enhanced pat down" is a traumatic experience.
> Former Miss USA Susie Castillo recorded her reaction to the TSA pat down, which brought her to tears:
> ...



So if you're ok with this that's you're business.  Me?  I support any calls to disband the TSA, remove them from existance, prosecute and punish all members of this criminal gang, and focus on real security run professionally by professionals at our airports.

One other point: If you are an employee of the TSA, you are not welcome on MartialTalk.com.
TOS - Announcement


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

At the end of the day, I don't like them. I don't think they are effective, I think they violate peoples rights, give the illusion of security while really not adding any, are a waste of tax payer money, and that there are better more effective options available.   Most cops I know don't like them, most security experts think they are a joke, and their crimes continue to pile up.

I make you 1 promise.  If I ever fly again, I will be wearing skin tight spandex pants, I will pop 20mg of viagra an hour before the flight, I will be wearing this shirt, and I will opt out.  I will have someone video the results and live stream them so there is no doubt what happens.


But!  If you want to work for the TSA, want the ability to be a bully, molest women and children, and get great discounts on electronics, you can work for them.
Job application right here.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

Like I said quite a few complaints vs number of people that fly. 
What's a better alternative in your mind?  Give them badges and make then law enforcement?  Guess what I search people all the times to include strip searches and inside underwear.  That includes grabbing your crotch and all other areas people don't like strangers to touch.


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## granfire (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Easy to take shots at them.  They have an unpopular job I think the number of complaints vs number of total passengers is very small.  If your pissed they took your fingernail clippers well don't bring them and they can't take then.  Either way they didn't set policy they just do what they are told



you get allegations like this leveled against you as a cop, your days would be numbered.
And I mean serious ones, from credible people, not crack heads


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> At the end of the day, I don't like them. I don't think they are effective, I think they violate peoples rights, give the illusion of security while really not adding any, are a waste of tax payer money, and that there are better more effective options available.   Most cops I know don't like them, most security experts think they are a joke, and their crimes continue to pile up.
> 
> I make you 1 promise.  If I ever fly again, I will be wearing skin tight spandex pants, I will pop 20mg of viagra an hour before the flight, I will be wearing this shirt, and I will opt out.  I will have someone video the results and live stream them so there is no doubt what happens.
> 
> ...



Now your just being a child.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

granfire said:


> you get allegations like this leveled against you as a cop, your days would be numbered.
> And I mean serious ones, from credible people, not crack heads


Allegations of what?  That the searched someone and had to touch their breast or crotch?  Well we look there because that is where people hide stuff.  There is a reason we search there.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

The enhanced pat-down rules allow them to use their palms and fingers to feel, twist, squeeze, and prod passengers.
For many men, women and children, this "enhanced pat down" is a* traumatic experience.* 


Seriously we are being a little bit over dramatic here.  Traumatic huh?  I bet it wasn't so traumatic that you canceled your vacation or spent the rest of your trip hiding in a hotel.  That's a little disrespectful to real victims of a real traumatic experience.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Like I said quite a few complaints vs number of people that fly.
> What's a better alternative in your mind?  Give them badges and make then law enforcement?  Guess what I search people all the times to include strip searches and inside underwear.  That includes grabbing your crotch and all other areas people don't like strangers to touch.





ballen0351 said:


> Allegations of what?  That the searched someone and had to touch their breast or crotch?  Well we look there because that is where people hide stuff.  There is a reason we search there.



You're a cop. You are a duly designated law enforcement official. I believe you have training? Arrest powers? Swear an oath to defend the Constitution?

The TSA are: Not LEO's. Do not have arrest powers. Barely have training.  Have no clue what a Constitution is.

But tell you what.  I think you might be hiding some contraband.  How about I give you a TSA quality pat down? I'm -just as qualified- as the guy at the airport is.

[h=1]Audit Faults TSA&#8217;s Training of Airport Screeners as Rushed, Poorly Supervised[/h]





> It turns out the TSA&#8217;s screener-training program suffers from  systemic problems, including a shortage of on-the-job training monitors,  slow or malfunctioning computers, and managers who fail to give TSOs  enough time to keep up to date on their their legally-required training,  according to a timely report from the Department of Homeland Security&#8217;s  Inspector General.
> &#8220;TSOs described rushing through course material without devoting the  attention needed to retain the lessons,&#8221; reads the report, which is  dated Oct. 26, and was made public last week. &#8220;TSA officials agreed that  if TSOs hurry through training courses because they are not being  allocated sufficient time by management or they do not have access to  training computers, they may not receive adequate or quality training.&#8221; (.pdf)



The DHS found this out.  Wired is just reporting it.  



ballen0351 said:


> Now your just being a child.



That application is based on -actual TSA screw ups-.   I pass out printed copies to cops at seminars. In 3 years you're the first to state you don't like it.  

Oh well.



I just hope if I ever fly again I can sit next to Adam Savage.
[h=3]_Adam Savage_: _TSA_ saw my junk, missed 12&#8243; razor blades[/h]


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

So I'll ask again what's a better way?


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

[h=3]TSA Gets a Taste of Their Own Medicine, Woman Arrested for Groping TSA Agent at Phoenix Airport [/h]
[h=3]TSA's Embarrassing Week: ABC News' Brian Ross iPad Video; Two Loaded Guns Go Undetected     [/h]
[h=3]TSA molests mom, brings her to tears [/h]
[h=3]Blogger tricks TSA body scanners[/h]
[h=3]Woman Screams for Police after TSA Airport Pat Down[/h]
[h=3]TSA pulls pants off 71 y/o man with knee implant     [/h]
[h=3]TSA Nabs Suspected Al Queda Terrorist At Chicago Airport, A toddler in a wheelchair     [/h]


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

People miss stuff in searches all the time.  There is a video  of a guy that blows his head off in an interview room in a police station.  He was in the station for shooting a cop.  He was searched by at least 4 officers and they all missed a 1911 handgun.
I missed a .357 on a pat down once.  It happens

As for the rest TSA "molests" mom.  Its nonsense and disrespectful to real victims


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

How many times have you been bothered by TSA there Bob?  I fly every now and again.  Nobody has ever bothered me.  I know the rules and don't bring prohibited items.  I empty my pockets as requested.  I've never had a problem.  Have you?   Oh wait you already said NO they have not bothered you either.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> So I'll ask again what's a better way?



I thought the screeners at SFX were professional when I flew through there.  Of course, they are -private- security, a program the TSA has blocked from expanding. 

The nudiscanners didn't work. The TSA is already tossing billions of dollars in them out.  But the lobbyist who sold em got paid so who cares right?

[h=3]_TSA_ gets rid of full-body _scanners_ at US airports[/h]_TSA_ has completely removed revealing X-ray _scanners_


But how to fix this.

How about this?

1- do better background checks.   Some estimates show that 40-60% of TSA screeners have criminal records.  I dont think these are the people we want doing security work.

2- Stop the theatrics.  No more "Freeze Tag". 

3- Do real screening.   Not the easily circumvented stuff we're doing now.  Hell, anyone with some thinking can forge a pass that gets past the visual-only checks.





> [h=1]Smoke Screening[/h]
> As  you stand in endless lines this holiday season, here&#8217;s a comforting  thought: all those security measures accomplish nothing, at enormous  cost. That&#8217;s the conclusion of Charles C. Mann, who put the T.S.A. to  the test with the help of one of America&#8217;s top security experts.


http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/12/tsa-insanity-201112

Read that.  Then tell me that a real terrorist is going to be caught by this joke organization.



> The day before, I had downloaded an image of a boarding pass from the  Delta Web site, copied and pasted the letters with Photoshop, and  printed the results with a laser printer. I am not a photo-doctoring  expert, so the work took me nearly an hour. The T.S.A. agent waved me  through without a word.





> a T.S.A. agent had darted out and swabbed my hands with a damp,  chemically impregnated cloth: a test for explosives. Schneier said,  &#8220;Apparently the idea is that al-Qaeda has never heard of latex gloves  and wiping down with alcohol.&#8221;





> After a public outcry, T.S.A. officers began waving through medical  supplies that happen to be liquid, including bottles of saline solution.  &#8220;You fill one of them up with liquid explosive,&#8221; Schneier said, &#8220;then  get a shrink-wrap gun and seal it. The T.S.A. doesn&#8217;t open  shrink-wrapped packages.&#8221;





> The security bottlenecks are regularly bypassed by large numbers of  people&#8212;airport workers, concession-stand employees, airline personnel,  and T.S.A. agents themselves (though in 2008 the T.S.A. launched an  employee-screening pilot study at seven airports). &#8220;Almost all of those  jobs are crappy, low-paid jobs,&#8221; Schneier says. &#8220;They have high  turnover. If you&#8217;re a serious plotter, don&#8217;t you think you could get one  of those jobs?&#8221;





> The scanners cannot detect petn directly; instead they look for suspicious bulges under clothing. Because petn  is a Silly Putty&#8211;like material, it can be fashioned into a thin  pancake. Taped flat to the stomach, the pancake is invisible to scanning  machines. Alternatively, attackers could stick gum-size wads of the  explosive in their mouths, then go through security enough times to  accumulate the desired amount.



Here's a few thoughts.    Want to shut the airport down?  Fly on the day before Thanksgiving, in a heavy coat, with tnt strapped to you, then go boom right by the nudiscan.  You'll kill 100-200 people, shut the airport down for days, and cause the nation to collectively crap itself.  Billions of dollars lost, and it just costs you $100 in explosives and 1 nutcase looking for 72 virginians.  Do it at 2-3 airports and you **** up the country for weeks and cause years of over reaction.

You're a cop.  How do you stop that?  Because nothing currently in action will stop that if someone wanted to do it.    

Car bomb in the passenger pick up spots.  Just 2-3 every couple years will keep underwear soiled.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> How many times have you been bothered by TSA there Bob?  I fly every now and again.  Nobody has ever bothered me.  I know the rules and don't bring prohibited items.  I empty my pockets as requested.  I've never had a problem.  Have you?   Oh wait you already said NO they have not bothered you either.



I don't fly.  Let them stop me when I'm driving to TX.  I'll let you know how it goes.  I'll just keep asking if I'm free to go or being detained, and if there are any real cops around.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

> Here's a few thoughts. Want to shut the airport down? Fly on the day before Thanksgiving, in a heavy coat, with tnt strapto you, then go boom right by the nudiscan. You'll kill 100-200 people, shut the airport down for days, and cause the nation to collectively crap itself. Billions of dollars lost, and it just costs you $100 in explosives and 1 nutcase looking for 72 virginians. Do it at 2-3 airports and you **** up the country for weeks and cause years of over reaction.
> 
> You're a cop. How do you stop that? Because nothing currently in action will stop that if someone wanted to do it.



You cant there is no way to prevent everything.  If someone wants to kill you they will.  In reality there is no security.  Changing all TSA agents to FBI SWAT memebers and your scenario would still happen


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

Exactly.  So why are they fondling kids and handicapped and old grandmothers?  We're not more secure, just more paranoid and more harassed.

Save some money, focus on the stuff that works, and let me bring my pies on the plane again.  

Or, sit me next to this gal.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Exactly.  So why are they fondling kids and handicapped and old grandmothers?  We're not more secure, just more paranoid and more harassed.
> 
> Save some money, focus on the stuff that works, and let me bring my pies on the plane again.
> 
> Or, sit me next to this gal.



Who's being harassed?  You keep using that term.  I see no harassment.  Also nobody's being fondled.  A pat down isn't  fondling if it was I've fondled a lot of nasty dirty men in my time.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Who's being harassed?  You keep using that term.  I see no harassment.  Also nobody's being fondled.  A pat down isn't  fondling if it was I've fondled a lot of nasty dirty men in my time.



Tens of thousands of complaints, hundreds of screeners arrested but there's no problem?

ooook.

*Complaints against TSA workers up 26 percent in 3 years - News*

news.msn.com/.../*complaints*-against-*tsa*-workers-up-26-percent-in-3-yea...&#8206;
Jul 31, 2013 - Some of the 3408 misconduct allegations against _TSA_ employees last year included use of drugs and alcohol on duty and improper use of *...*

*McCain demands answers from TSA following passenger complaints*

www.azcentral.com/.../20131029mccain-demands-a...&#8206;

Oct 29, 2013
McCain demands answers from _TSA_ following passenger _complaints_,Sen. John McCain is demanding *..*​[h=3]_TSA_ Misconduct Cases On The Rise; Agency Not Following Up On *...*[/h]consumerist.com/.../*tsa*-misconduct-cases-on-the-rise-agency-not-followi...&#8206;​Jul 30, 2013 - In theory, the _Transportation Security Administration_ is supposed to be a last line of defense against terrorists and other folks who want to do bad things on *...

*[h=3]Madison Project » GAO report: _TSA_ received 39,000 _complaints_ *...*[/h]madisonproject.com/.../gao-report-*tsa*-received-39000-*complaints*-betwe...&#8206;
Nov 30, 2012 - The _Transportation Security Administration_ (_TSA_) received more than 39,000 _complaints_ related to its controversial screening methods between 2009 and 2012, *...*


​

Anyway, here we see some examples of the TSA at work.  Now this first one's in Japanese but I think their techniques are obvious.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 29, 2013)

10,000 complaints don't mean much.  How many were found to be valid?  I get complaints all the time.  I've never had one sustained.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 29, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> 10,000 complaints don't mean much.  How many were found to be valid?  I get complaints all the time.  I've never had one sustained.



I'm too busy trying to track down the uncensored version of the second clip to hack into the TSA's database to find that answer.  But the GAO says 39,000 complaints, and we do know that over 500 of these fine people were found guilty, so that's part of the answer there.  There were 1,200 security breaches -caused- by TSA pedos in 2012.   If you're ok with that level of incompetence, please, let me know when you bust an electronics smuggling ring. I could use a new 60" flat screen.  Sanyo, not LG. 
Just leave the keys in the usual place, and bring me back a coffee.    Oh, you wouldn't do that?  Well, 
[h=3]Airport luggage _thefts_ reportedly on rise with _TSA_[/h]The Top 20 Airports for _TSA Theft_


Now, since we're talking about boobs....where was I?  Oh yeah, google hunting boobies of a much nicer variety.


----------



## granfire (Nov 30, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Allegations of what?  That the searched someone and had to touch their breast or crotch?  Well we look there because that is where people hide stuff.  There is a reason we search there.



Oh, like theft etc...criminal records and the works.

You do not get to decide what traumatizes a person. 
I know of one woman in her 90s who felt raped having a male nurse see her undressed.

You can't join the army if you have a record...why the TSA?


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

granfire said:


> You can't join the army if you have a record...why the TSA?


Yes you can.  You just can't currently be on probation.  Hell you don't even have to be here legally to join.  A guy in my platoon made a raft out of old coolers and floated to the US from Cuba and join the Marines.  We had lots of guys with criminal records in my platoon.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

You want better employees you need to pay better.  That's true for all jobs.  There is a very large PD 15 min from my job.  They pay crap and work in a nasty violent city.  Their cops get arrested all the time because they hire crap that couldn't get hired elsewhere.  I applied there once.  There was like 40 of us in a room.  THey called 3 names sitting in the room and arrested them.  They had active warrants.  I left after that.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 30, 2013)

$14.63/hr-$16.50/hr isn't crap pay.  Not for a job that's easier than flipping a burger at McD.  I mean, come on, lets be serious about what they -really- do.

Walk around airport strutting proud like they were important, pretending they're real cops.
Ask you for your ID and boarding pass to they can use a sharpie to make a check mark on your pass.  They have no way of knowing the pass is even real as people have printed fake ones and gotten through no problem.  They can't often remember who it was that handed them the ID and have a habit of giving it back to the wrong person. A bouncer at a nightclub is better trained on ID checks.
They lie all the time about the legality of taking photos and video in airports. (It is legal)
They fail *-70%-* of the time in their main duty of screening for problem items.
They know their main line of screening is a failure, so now randomly shout "freeze" and expect people to stop so they can search them again. Like in a school yard maybe?
While missing loaded firearms and 12" razor blades, they will make sure no sippy cup of apple juice gets on board ensuring a pissed off baby and enjoyable flight.


But hey, I can sit here and criticize them for hours.  There are millions and millions of links about them. 
Lets let them tell you how inept they are.
http://blog.tsa.gov/2012/08/tsa-year-to-date-report-look-at-year-so.html
1.8 million passengers screened per day! 
30,204 have submitted a complaint
January to July, there have been 821 firearms discovered in carry-on bags at checkpoints across the country. That&#8217;s almost four firearms per day! 
a live 40mm high explosive grenade; a bottle wrapped in black electrical tape and filled with flash powder, and three M-80 fireworks; a black powder flask filled with 5oz. of black powder; even an explosively-viable cannonball; and last but not least, a live blasting cap.  


Not a bad haul for a few billion dollars spent.  Of course, back when we did less theatrics we really didn't have a problem either.   Funny that.  5 hijackings in the 60's, 14 in the 70's, 2 in the 80's, 1 in the 90's. The 2000's saw 4 in 1 day (9/11). 26 hijackings in 54 years and millions of flights.

Now, compare that to the 3 planes worth of extra dead people every year due to the increases in auto accidents because people don't want their junk touched, or want to deal with power tripping thugs unqualified to work the fry station at McD who steal $millions every year (200 thefts per day at 1 airport alone), and I'm not sure how we're "safer". Not to mention the TSA drug rings.  Couple of them have been busted.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Nov 30, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Yes you can.  You just can't currently be on probation.  Hell you don't even have to be here legally to join.  A guy in my platoon made a raft out of old coolers and floated to the US from Cuba and join the Marines.  We had lots of guys with criminal records in my platoon.



Well, she did say Army.  It was like that in the 70s that I know of, and up until the late 80s.  It may have changed, I don't know.  But I have heard otherwise.  A simple article 15 (Captain's Mast for you) can get you kicked out now, and will make it difficult to impossible to re-list.  I know there were ways around a police record, but none of them legal, even when suggested by recruiters desperate to meet quotas.

EDIT:  I meant to mention that as far as I know, Cuban and El Savadoran nationals still get special consideration for immigration.  Practically a free pass.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

oftheherd1 said:


> Well, she did say Army.  It was like that in the 70s that I know of, and up until the late 80s.  It may have changed, I don't know.  But I have heard otherwise.  A simple article 15 (Captain's Mast for you) can get you kicked out now, and will make it difficult to impossible to re-list.  I know there were ways around a police record, but none of them legal, even when suggested by recruiters desperate to meet quotas.
> 
> EDIT:  I meant to mention that as far as I know, Cuban and El Savadoran nationals still get special consideration for immigration.  Practically a free pass.



It may be different now that we are downsizing the military.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> $14.63/hr-$16.50/hr isn't crap pay.  Not for a job that's easier than flipping a burger at McD.  I mean, come on, lets be serious about what they -really- do.
> 
> Walk around airport strutting proud like they were important, pretending they're real cops.
> Ask you for your ID and boarding pass to they can use a sharpie to make a check mark on your pass.  They have no way of knowing the pass is even real as people have printed fake ones and gotten through no problem.  They can't often remember who it was that handed them the ID and have a habit of giving it back to the wrong person. A bouncer at a nightclub is better trained on ID checks.
> ...



You have no clue what they do.  And that pay is crap for what you want them to do.  But whatever man have fun crying.  I'll keep flying and not have issue just like millions of other passengers.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 30, 2013)

and you do know what they do?  All the missed guns and knives, all the fondled old women, all the stolen sippy cups and breast milk...that's all a cover for their ultra defending?

1 question.

How many terrorists have they -caught-?

How many would be hijackers have they -caught-?

A measurable number please.

Thanks.

Funny how we agree that the risk of guns is so small that the crazy solutions are just that, but here we disagree when the numbers are even less risky.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> and you do know what they do?  All the missed guns and knives, all the fondled old women, all the stolen sippy cups and breast milk...that's all a cover for their ultra defending?
> 
> 1 question.
> 
> ...



Because I don't think minimal security is a big deal.  I take my shoes off walk through a metal detector put my shoes back on and board my plane.  That's it.  Hardly a big deal.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 30, 2013)

You have yet to provide an alternative solution.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 30, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Because I don't think minimal security is a big deal.  I take my shoes off walk through a metal detector put my shoes back on and board my plane.  That's it.  Hardly a big deal.


No pat downs?  No nudi scan?  How do you rate special treatment?



ballen0351 said:


> You have yet to provide an alternative solution.



I have, others have but lets recap.

1 - Abolish the TSA, return to Pre-9/11 screenings.  Meaning less theatrics, more effectiveness.

2 - Allow airports to use private screeners, not TSA thugs.  Private firms can operate more effectively at lower cost and be more quickly held accountable for errors.
Private screeners at the top 35 airports would save us $1B, screen 65% more passengers and cost 40% less.



There's 2 options.

Here's another.



> *Robert Poole*, Director of Transportation Policy, Reason Foundation1. Trusted Travelers, who have passed a background check and are   issued a biometric ID card that proves (when they arrive at the   checkpoint) that they are the person who was cleared. This group would   include cockpit crews and anyone holding a government security   clearance, anyone already a member of DHS's Global Entry, Sentri, and Nexus,   and anyone who applied and was accepted into a new Trusted Traveler   program). These people would get to bypass regular security lanes upon   having their biometric card checked, subject only to random screening   of a small fraction.
> 2. High-risk travelers, either those about whom no information is   known or who are flagged by the various DHS intelligence lists as   warranting 'Selectee' status. They would be the only ones facing   body-scanner or pat down as mandatory, routine screening.
> 3. Ordinary travelers&#8212;basically everyone else, who would go through   metal detector and put carry-ons through 2-D X-ray machines. They would   not have to remove shoes or jackets, and could travel with liquids. A   small fraction of this group would be subject to random 'Selectee'-type   screening.


http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/ways-to-fix-the-pat-down-problem.html?id=6271146




Tell me.  If a real cop in your department failed to find a weapon 7 out of 10 times, would you trust your families safety with him?


Oh, then check this out. 
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...heater-described-one-simple-infographic.shtml


Want to keep the existing process?  Fine.  Train them better.  Screen them better.   Hire people smart enough to know that it's the person in -front- of them who they hand the ID back to, not the woman with the big **** behind them. 

Why should I trust them with my security if I can't trust them not to rob me?


To me, the TSA are terrorists, should be treated as such.  Let them stay in the airports, and away from the highways.


----------



## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

Nope I've never had a pat down.  And I guess what you call a nudi scan I call a metal detector.  Either way hardly intrusive.  Walk in hold your arms out the machine spins and then walk out.  Even if I were patted down not a big deal I've been patted down plenty of times.  Nothing excessive has ever been done to me or my family.  I've also never witnessed anything excessive.  Does it happen sure happen in every job.  Its it blown out of proportion in regards to TSA absolutely.  A pat down is not molestation,  a xray scanner isn't a nudi-scan,  and they are not thugs they are just doing a job


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Nope I've never had a pat down.



You should try one. Seriously.  Then let me know in your expert opinion if it was a joke or not.



> And I guess what you call a nudi scan I call a metal detector.



I have no problem with going through a metal detector.
I do have a problem with being hit with a dose of radiation from a machine that has been proven ineffective, and unsafe.



> Either way hardly intrusive.  Walk in hold your arms out the machine spins and then walk out.


If you're ok with a guy in another room laughing about your billy club, hey, who am I to argue. 



> Even if I were patted down not a big deal I've been patted down plenty of times.



Was that by real cops, or keystone cops?



> Nothing excessive has ever been done to me or my family.



Then you've been lucky.



> I've also never witnessed anything excessive.


Too busy putting your shoes, pants, jacket back on and repacking your pockets?



> Does it happen sure happen in every job.  Its it blown out of proportion in regards to TSA absolutely.


I disagree. There is significant evidence, from the government's own reports, that they are an ineffective and corrupt organization.



> A pat down is not molestation,


When done by a trained law enforcement official with probable cause.
The TSA is not LE, and poorly trained at best.



> a xray scanner isn't a nudi-scan,



This is what they saw, prior to scrapping a couple billion dollars in props.
http://www.infowars.com/internal-tsa-documents-body-scanners-pat-downs-not-for-terrorists/
If these are safe units, tell me, why have they been banned in the EU, and why doesn't Israel use them?



> and they are not thugs they are just doing a job


I recall that was also said in Nuremberg.


One question.   Do you consider a TSA "Officer" an equal to yourself, or your superior? 
Heck, do you consider them real law enforcement?


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

TSA victims list grows
http://abombazine.blogspot.com/p/master-list-of-tsa-crimes-and-abuses.html



> September 16, 2012
> *On  a trip from LAX to Honolulu I watched a male TSA agent pat down what  looked like a skinny 8-9 year old girl who was wearing a pink tube top  and blue short shorts with flip flops.* The tube top and the  shorts were the type that were thin elastic material fitting very  tightly on her. You could probably see a dime through the clothes if you  stood close enough. There could not be any possible place to hide  anything on the little kid, but there he was, off in the special area,  some pervert patting her down. *It was child molestation straight up, nothing less.*http://www.elliott.org/blog/has-the-tsa-has-become-its-own-worst-enemy/#comment-652011894



TSA policy is that the screener will be the same gender.



> *Convicted TSA Officer Reveals Secrets of Thefts at Airports*September 28, 2012
> A convicted TSA security officer says he was part of a "culture" of  indifference that allowed corrupt employees to prey on passengers'  luggage and personal belongings with impunity, thanks to lax oversight  and tip-offs from TSA colleagues.
> *"It was very commonplace, very," said Pythias Brown, a former  TSA officer at Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey who  admits he stole more than $800,000 worth of items from luggage and  security checkpoints over a four-year period.*"It was very convenient to steal," he said.
> http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/convi...hefts-airports/story?id=17339513#.UGcIuI6hDzI



Just a few bad apples huh?



> *Former TSA officer pleads guilty to conspiracy for attempting to smuggle cocaine thru Hartsfield*October 4, 2012
> Ex-TSA Officer Timothy G. Gregory, 26, of DeKalb County, Georgia,  pleaded guilty today to conspiring and attempting to smuggle cocaine  through Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, announced Sally  Quillian Yates, United States Attorney for the Northern District of  Georgia.
> http://www.wsbradio.com/news/news/local/former-tsa-officer-pleads-guilty-conspiracy-attemp/nSTMF/



So safe, yes, so safe.



> *TSA Confiscates toy-looking, 3-inch belt buckle because it's shaped like a gun (with little rhinestones, to boot!)*
> *December 19, 2012*Someone took off his belt and put it  in a bin on the conveyor to go through the X-ray machine. When the TSA  officer viewed the X-ray image, he understandably saw a gun. The  conveyor belt was halted and the Port Authority Police were called. Once  the police arrived, the bin was removed from the X-ray machine at which  time it was determined to be a replica.
> http://gothamist.com/2012/12/19/tsa_tip_belt_buckle_gun_replica_ain.php
> *Same story, via Twitter:*
> ...



Yep, such fine attention to detail. If you were on that flight, you can thank the nice TSAer for your safety. No belt buckles allowed on his watch!



> *3 troubling ways the TSA punishes passengers who opt out*
> *by Christopher Elliott, January 9, 2013, TSA News Blog, Elliott Blog, Huffington Post*
> . . . Last week, I heard from *Maura Maia, a flight attendant for  a major airline, who says that while she enjoys breezing through the  crewmember line when she&#8217;s in uniform, the treatment is vastly different  when she&#8217;s off the clock. She recently flew in civilian clothes and  opted out.* &#8220;The TSA agent started yelling at me when I said I  wasn&#8217;t going into the full-body scan,&#8221; she says. Maia stood her ground,  but says &#8220;I was humiliated in public.&#8221; She adds, &#8220;When I came back to  the same airport, that time on my uniform, and tried to file a complaint  with the TSA supervisor, he waved me away.&#8221; The TSA can&#8217;t force you  through the scanners, but it will try. Yelling at passengers is  unacceptable . . . .
> http://tsanewsblog.com/8635/news/3-troubling-ways-the-tsa-punishes-passengers-who-opt-out/


 Yet I'm the one being childish?



> *TSA agent pulls down dress to expose the breasts of 17-year-old niece  of Congressman during airport pat-down as he demands federal  investigation*
> Rep Ralph Hall of Texas says TSA 'badly mistreated' his grand-niece and  wants officer fired from at Hartsfield-Jackson Airport Georgia
> The girl was part of a group traveling to Australia from Southwest Christian school two years ago
> In a statement to MailOnline today, the TSA said: 'We regret that the  incident of more than two years ago was one that caused embarrassment to  the young lady, however, an investigation concluded that the event was  accidental.'
> ...


Based on the number of times this sort of stuff comes up in the feed, if you like **** you might want to hang out at the air port.  Give it a week and you'll see puppies.



> *Senator Claire McCaskill groped by TSA
> March 11, 2013, The Hill*
> "&#8234;Today in my airport screening, test on my hands was positive,"  McCaskill wrote to her 89,100 followers. "Got private, more aggressive  pat down. OMG. #veryuncomfortable&#8236;."
> http://thehill.com/blogs/transporta...kill-complains-about-aggressive-tsa-screening


Even the Elites get fondled.



> *TSA: Child porn suspect was top officer*
> *By Doug Ireland, June 14, 2013**LONDONDERRY, NH &#8212; A former top  officer with the Transportation Security Administration was arrested on  child pornography charges after items were seized from his locker at  Manchester-Boston Regional Airport.
> Miguel Quinones, 38, of 67 Whittemore Ave. in Manchester* faces  10 felony counts after he turned himself over to police on an arrest  warrant Wednesday, according to Londonderry police Lt. Timothy Jones.
> A video and more than 1,000 images of child pornography were found on  Quinones&#8217; personal laptop computer and three thumb drives stored in his  airport locker, Jones said.
> ...


Such fine people.  I'm sure any respectable police department in the US would be happy to open a spot up for these folks.



> *TSA Air Marshal Taking Pix Up Women's Dresses*
> *TSA News and the Baltimore Sun, October 18, 2013*
> http://tsanewsblog.com/11772/news/tsa-air-marshall-taking-pix-up-womens-dresses/
> Arrested: Adam Joseph Bartsch
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...air-marshal-arrested-20131018,0,3729815.story


Such professionalism.  Making sure no one was carrying a snuke.

but my favorite was when they molested Ron Paul.


> *TSA Gropes Ron Paul*
> *Posted by **Lew Rockwell** on November 23, 2010 07:02 PM*
> Recently, Ron Paul had to go through his first invasive pat-down at the  airport; his knee replacements bar him from the gulagoscan. This is one  of the most well-mannered men I know, but *after four very hard  jabs to his genitals, he asked the blue-gloved TSA agent: "How can you  live with yourself, feeling up strange men all day long?"
> "I love my job," sneered the goon.*
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/71025.html


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't consider TSA to be law enforcement its not their job to enforce laws.  Why would you want law enforcement doing security?  You been to a pro-football game lately?  You get patted down and your bags searched are they molesting people too?


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

And again its not fondling.  You search those areas because guess what............people hide stuff there.  I've found all kinds of strange things in people's underwear


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I don't consider TSA to be law enforcement its not their job to enforce laws.  Why would you want law enforcement doing security?  You been to a pro-football game lately?  You get patted down and your bags searched are they molesting people too?



I'm in Buffalo. Why would I go to a football game?  :rofl:
Oh and football security is now TSA land. VIPR teams remember?



ballen0351 said:


> And again its not fondling.  You search those areas because guess what............people hide stuff there.  I've found all kinds of strange things in people's underwear



You do know there are so many comments I could make about this right?   Then again, I once found a penny in a babys diaper. 

But you do realize you're probably the 1st cop I've found in almost a decade that actually likes the TSA?  

I'm just not "OK" with poorly trained dishonest bullies who don't know how to operate their own equipment being used as a line of defence against terrorism.
I'd feel safer if Gallagher was standing by the door with his sledge-o-matic.
Not by much, because he's become an unfunny homophobic bitter shell of what he once was.
But still a better option than what we got now.

Thats why I don't fly. Keeps me out of jail for kneeing some pedo in the teeth for a 'nervous twitch' that was set off by my bollucks being caressed or not knowing the current rules to TSA Freeze Tag.

If you're ok with it that's your business.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm in Buffalo. Why would I go to a football game?  :rofl:
> Oh and football security is now TSA land. VIPR teams remember?


except is private security doing the searching.  You know the private guys you want at airports.



> You do know there are so many comments I could make about this right?   Then again, I once found a penny in a babys diaper.


was it on heads?


> But you do realize you're probably the 1st cop I've found in almost a decade that actually likes the TSA?


I dont "like"  TSA but I dont think they are criminal thugs molesting people.  They are just doing a job thats very unpopular and are easy to take shots at which are uncalled for.


> I'm just not "OK" with poorly trained dishonest bullies who don't know how to operate their own equipment being used as a line of defence against terrorism.
> I'd feel safer if Gallagher was standing by the door with his sledge-o-matic.
> Not by much, because he's become an unfunny homophobic bitter shell of what he once was.
> But still a better option than what we got now.


Again nonsense.  They are not bullies and Gallagher?  ok


> Thats why I don't fly. Keeps me out of jail for kneeing some pedo in the teeth for a 'nervous twitch' that was set off by my bollucks being caressed or not knowing the current rules to TSA Freeze Tag.


Again your exaggerating for effect.  YOU have never been bothered by a TSA agent and neither have I or anyone else I personally know.  But hey why let that get in the way of a good joke right


> If you're ok with it that's your business.


there is nothing to be OK with.  it just is.  You want to fly follow the rules and you wont have any problems. 

Funny I see your same childish names when you talk about law enforcement as well, but now all of a sudden they are the saving grace


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> except is private security doing the searching.  You know the private guys you want at airports.





> *TSA 'Secured' Metrodome During Recent Football Game*
> 
> Posted         by                                 Soulskill                                   on Saturday January 05, 2013 @04:50PM
> from the a-large-an-oddly-shaped-airplane dept.
> McGruber writes _"Travel writer Christopher Elliott touches down with the news that the U.S. Transportation Security Administration was spotted standing around outside a recent American football game between the Minnesota Vikings and the Green Bay Packers (picture).  According to Mr. Elliott, the 'TSA goes to NFL games and political  conventions and all kinds of places that have little or nothing to do  with ... travel. It even has a special division called VIPR &#8212; an  unfortunate acronym for Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response team &#8212;  that conducts these searches.' He continues, 'As far as I can tell, TSA  is just asking questions at this point. "Data and results collected  through the Highway BASE program will inform TSA's policy and program  initiatives and allow TSA to provide focused resources and tools to  enhance the overall security posture within the surface transportation  community," it says in the filing.  But they wouldn't be wasting our money asking such questions unless  they planned to aggressively expand VIPR at some point in the near  future. And that means TSA agents at NFL games, in subways and at the  port won't be the exception anymore &#8212; they will be the rule.'"_



Funny.  I didn't see airplanes on the field. 





> I dont "like"  TSA but I dont think they are criminal thugs molesting people.  They are just doing a job thats very unpopular and are easy to take shots at which are uncalled for.


You also think I'm being a meany when I call out bad cops for their rights violations.
Let's just agree to disagree here.



> Again nonsense.  They are not bullies and Gallagher?  ok


So, you don't think exposing womens breasts, ordering handicapped to walk unassisted, etc is bullying?



> Again your exaggerating for effect.  YOU have never been bothered by a TSA agent and neither have I or anyone else I personally know.  But hey why let that get in the way of a good joke right


I've never been robbed by a flash mob, but I can tell when something is wrong.




> there is nothing to be OK with.  it just is.  You want to fly follow the rules and you wont have any problems.



Ah, the old "do as we say and no one gets hurt" arguement.  Used by highwaymen for centuries.



> Funny I see your same childish names when you talk about law enforcement as well, but now all of a sudden they are the saving grace


ok.  I've been trying to be nice here.
Or maybe I'm past due for the November Top Bad Cop stories.

Lots n lots n lots at http://www.policemisconduct.net/

It's nice to know that these "fine upstanding examples" of your profession might be able to despite their in many cases convictions, find gainful employment at an airport as a screener.  While you will rightfully argue that these are the exceptions among law enforcement, I don't want them in -any- position of authority. Not as cops, not as TSA, not as karate teachers, not even as crossing guards.  I want them no where near honest people and children. Digging ditches, picking lettuce, collecting garbage, sorting cans.

I'll call a bad cop a lot of colorful things.  You know what I call a good cop?

"Sir" (or "Mam" as appropriate.)

That's the 1 major point you and I disagree on.  I think bad cops should be vilified, publicly crucified and shamed. You think they should be quietly buried, and that bringing them up somehow is disrespectful to the tens of thousands of good honest hardworking men and women in law enforcement nation wide. 

And that's all I have to say about cops right now. 

http://www.classichitsandoldies.com...eport-sheds-light-on-tsa-screener-misconduct/


> A report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office  says the TSA investigated nearly 10,000 cases of alleged misconduct by  security screeners since 2010.  The misconduct accusations included  everything from sleeping on the job to failing to show up for work to  allowing relatives to bypass security checkpoints.
> Accusations of misconduct by TSA staffers increased 27 percent from 2010 to 2012, according to the GAO report.
> The report says nearly one-third of the misconduct accusations  involved unexcused absences or repeatedly showing up late for work.   Some 20 percent involved a staffer sleeping on the job or failing to  follow procedure.  Sixteen percent of the misconduct allegations  involved insubordination.
> The GAO report says 47 percent of alleged staffer wrongdoing resulted  in a letter of reprimand, 31 percent ended with a suspension and 17  percent resulted in dismissals.



Nothing to see here. Go baaaaaaack to sleeeeeeep.

Final word on the TSA






It's coming.  It's coming.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

You proved my point.  There are bad people in all professions, TSA, Police, Doctors, Auto Mechanics, Vets, military, football players, news photographers.  So you cry about TSA and demand it taken over by law enforcement and then you list bad cops. So then You want private security huh?  Oh yeah there has never been any private security guards in trouble. lol

You keep crying and refusing to fly I dont care it means more seats available for me.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> That's the 1 major point you and I disagree on.  I think bad cops should be vilified, publicly crucified and shamed. You think they should be quietly buried, and that bringing them up somehow is disrespectful to the tens of thousands of good honest hardworking men and women in law enforcement nation wide.
> .


Dont tell me what I think should happen to bad cops unlike you I HAVE ARRESTED bad cops.   I dont think they should be buried.  The fact that the make news shows how rare they are.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

You're deliberately being obtuse here, and I really have other things to do than keep going back and forth. 
In the end, they aren't welcome here, they are inefficient and corrupt, and there's better ways to have real security.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

Bob Hubbard said:


> You're deliberately being obtuse here, and I really have other things to do than keep going back and forth.
> In the end, they aren't welcome here, they are inefficient and corrupt, and there's better ways to have real security.



Your site you can be a childish as you want I guess


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Your site you can be a childish as you want I guess



[h=1]TSA admits to HR SNAFU allowing sex offenders to be hired[/h]





> August 23, 2013An undisclosed number of TSA screeners have been found to be  convicted sex offenders. Most still registered as sex offenders. Yet  still able to work groping away at air travelers.
> The error stems from the use of a private security company to  complete the background checks. An internal memo obtained from the TSA  outlines what took place. &#8220;Our instructions to the company said  &#8216;complete background check that includes a driver history and credit  history&#8217;. The contractor took the instructions too literal. The only  background they checked was driving and credit history.&#8221;


http://callthecops.net/tsa-admits-hr-snafu-allowing-sex-offenders-hired/

[h=1]TSA Hires Criminals and Sexual Predators Without Checking Backgrounds[/h]





> April 27, 2012
> Infowars.com has reported numerous instances of TSA employees  assaulting and stealing from passengers over the last few years. The TSA  has consistently hired violent criminals and even pedophiles and there is a logical explanation for this &#8211; the agency does not follow through on background checks.





> The Transportation and Security Administration (TSA) didn&#8217;t bother to  do a background check on a priest who had been defrocked for molesting  girls before they gave him a job, which included doing pat downs on  children at Philadelphia International Airport.
> The _Philadelphia Inquirer_ on Monday reported  that the agency confirmed that 65-year-old Thomas Harkins had been  forced out of the priesthood over allegations that he had sexually  abused two grade-school girls.
> But the TSA took no actions because &#8220;[a]n allegation alone does not  warrant dismissal or automatically disqualify applicants from employment  with the TSA,&#8221; spokesperson Ann Davis told the _Inquirer_.
> The TSA said that they had hired Harkins without a background check  because of an urgent need for agents after the terrorist attacks of  Sept. 11, 2001. Today, the agency no longer conducts mass hirings and a  background check is required for every employee.


http://watchingthetsa.wordpress.com...ame-tsa-hires-sex-offender-to-grope-children/



> [h=1]TSA Allows Airports To Hire People Without Finishing Background Check[/h]  April 26, 2012
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://consumerist.com/2012/04/26/t...re-people-without-finishing-background-check/

This is a serious enough problem that at least 4 States brought bills up criminalizing TSA actions, and both US Senators and Reps also brought bills up to protect passengers from the predatory actions of our so called "Security".

But you say -I'm- being childish here? By not welcoming these creatures to my community?
Would you welcome them into your department? Your school? Your home?
I wouldn't. So I don't.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 1, 2013)

So because a few slipped through the crack all must be bad.  Got it.  So I'm no better then the bad cops you posted in your eyes because my job =who I am.  1 bad cop means all cops are Pigs as you like to call them.  Well at least I know where I stand with you.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 1, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> So because a few slipped through the crack all must be bad.  Got it.  So I'm no better then the bad cops you posted in your eyes because my job =who I am.  1 bad cop means all cops are Pigs as you like to call them.  Well at least I know where I stand with you.



Now who's being the child here?


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