# US police fired over beating film



## Bill Mattocks (May 21, 2009)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8060943.stm

Unfortunately, this one appears to be an unjustified beating.


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## kaizasosei (May 21, 2009)

I find it borders on necrophilia.

Sometimes i wonder just what the suspect did to deserve getting beaten when already incapacitated or trying to comply by lying down with hands on back..??  Reasons i can accept a flat kick to the head would be if the suspect shot at officers.  If the suspect killed an officer, i can sortof understand a short beating like the above.   
However, when reasons such as,  'the chase put our lives and the lives of civilians in danger' that is overdoing it i find.  'The ******* wrecked several cars and made us waste a shitload of gas...' totally ********.  I mean, the cars belong to the state, the gas is payed for, part of the reason for becoming a cop is to handle danger and be able to deal with it.  Like the guy who spurs the horse on and then pulls the reins.  The excitement may be a tad sick in a sensationalist way, but it is human and normal to a certain point.  To make up unfounded and unfair reasons to beat someone that is already out of commission is base and even criminal, i find. 
Reminds me of people that get violent when they drink.  So it goes, in vino veritas, the excitement is intoxicating.


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## grydth (May 21, 2009)

For the department, this will keep getting worse..... seems they at first provided an only edited tape (without the beating)  for the criminal trial of the driver, and the switch was only discovered by accident. So there will be investigations into evidence tampering and failure of supervisors who knew about the beating to take any action.

Naturally, the character who once could see life as a post flight felon has now filed suit and will be the newest legal system's version of 'Who Wants To Be a Millionaire"

A cop summed this disaster up well: Fifty years of combined service lost over 10 seconds of stupidity.


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## Archangel M (May 21, 2009)

kaizasosei said:


> However, when reasons such as,  'the chase put our lives and the lives of civilians in danger' that is overdoing it i find.  'The ******* wrecked several cars and made us waste a shitload of gas...' totally ********.



Ehhh...I wouldn't underplay the danger to the public regarding chases like this. If that guy had hit a van carrying a family....

And the guy did strike and injure that officer who was on foot at the beginning of the film...and it look like he was trying to run him over intentionally IMO.

BUT that doesn't make the beating of an unconscious man who was thrown from a vehicle justified.

I have no sorrow over the bad guy, but these officers got what they deserved... 


PS: This is on a BBC site? Why is the BBC so fascinated with US law enforcement anyway? This is international news??


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## Bill Mattocks (May 21, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> PS: This is on a BBC site? Why is the BBC so fascinated with US law enforcement anyway? This is international news??



I pull news from all over - you'd be surprised.  Yes, it does often seem to me that the UK is absolutely fascinated about the USA.

Some of the things I've noticed - apparently, in the UK, everyone knows the names of the US states and where they are located.  Often, a Reuters UK story will say something about "Denver" or "Omaha," etc, with no further reference - it seems Brits have a pretty good idea of how the US works, divisions, political systems, etc.  We, on the other hand, have precious little idea of where Manchester is, or Powys (and I should know, it's my bloody kingdom) and don't pay much attention to what goes on in the UK.


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## Tez3 (May 21, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I pull news from all over - you'd be surprised. Yes, it does often seem to me that the UK is absolutely fascinated about the USA. Some of the things I've noticed - apparently, in the UK, everyone knows the names of the US states and where they are located. Often, a Reuters UK story will say something about "Denver" or "Omaha," etc, with no further reference - it seems Brits have a pretty good idea of how the US works, divisions, political systems, etc. We, on the other hand, have precious little idea of where Manchester is, or Powys (and I should know, it's my bloody kingdom) and don't pay much attention to what goes on in the UK.


 
No the we aren't fascinated by the US, the BBC has a long tradition of carrying news from all round the world. If you look at the sidebar you'll see the story and video are on the world section.
We follow news from all over and can tell you the states in Australia and Canada too lol as well as most of the countries of the world plus their politics. We even know where the Gulf states are and which is which. Oh and we know where Afghanistan is!


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## Thems Fighting Words (May 21, 2009)

Damn shame when police lose their cool like that. Makes us forget the general good they do and who the real criminals are. What's funny is that if a criminal sues the police they're payout is going to be huge but when a victim sues a criminal, they're payouts are usually minuscule because most criminals can't cover large reparations.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 21, 2009)

1 - no excuse to beat an incapacitated or unconscious person.

2- most of the people I worked with in 3 of my last few jobs would be hard pressed to name all 50 US states, id the VP, or find their own city on a map.


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## jarrod (May 21, 2009)

1) wow, not one cop tried to stop the others, or even hesitated to dive in.  

to be honest though, this is one of the reasons i could never be a cop.  i'd have a hard time not thumping the hell out of the guy too if he tried to kill me or one of my buddies.  

2) several years ago, i found a terrific deal on a trip to ireland & a friend said he'd go with me.  after we booked it i said something to him about how i wished we'd have more time to see more of the island.  until then, he didn't know ireland was an island.  

jf

p.s. i realize ireland is not the same as the UK 

jf


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## girlbug2 (May 21, 2009)

LOL okay tez, name the 50 United States (no cheating!!!)


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## Thesemindz (May 22, 2009)

jarrod said:


> p.s. i realize ireland is not the same as the UK
> 
> jf


 
UK? Is that over by England?


-Rob


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## Carol (May 22, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> UK? Is that over by England?
> 
> 
> -Rob



I dunno. So many people say UK is across the pond, but when I look across the pond and I just see the neighboring apartment complex. :idunno:  :lol:


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## jarrod (May 22, 2009)

no smart guys, UK is University of Kentucky.  that's where tez lives right?  kentucky?

jf


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> LOL okay tez, name the 50 United States (no cheating!!!)


 

Do they need new names then? LOL!

I've heard Kentucky is nice, my daughter's boyfriend worked there for six months for a horse racing trainer. None of us can understand though why you can't pronounce Derby correctly though lol! It's 'darby'!

Back to the subject in hand though, often in situations like this you will find if not approval by the others, often a huge reluctance to stop colleagues from doing something they would stop any criminal doing.


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## kaizasosei (May 22, 2009)

I know that kentucky is is sortof shaped like austria.  I know this because a friend of mine from there, pointed that out.
Reminds me, she also educated me as to what a turducken is, as well as the fine cuisine of stuffing a can of beer into the poultry.  

About the police beatings, 

Posted by Archangel M


> Ehhh...I wouldn't underplay the danger to the public regarding chases like this. If that guy had hit a van carrying a family....
> 
> And the guy did strike and injure that officer who was on foot at the beginning of the film...and it look like he was trying to run him over intentionally IMO.


well, that's the problem with segments of video, you only get to see part of the story.  I always try and understand as best i can all sides and motivations.  Danger to the public, yeah sure, that is why the guy will be going to jail.  If anyone thinks the justice system is insufficient and must be supplemented with brute violence...? i don't know if it's their place to do that. police are in a priveledged position.  They should think up more constructive ways.  Like beating a dog, the violence does very little good. Probably better to just shout.  Not saying i could always do better, but i would try and come up with my own ways.

I mean, if the guy hit a family or killed an innocent bystander in his escapades, then the blood is on his hands and he probably will get more jail time, that is because of the justice system.  Otherwise we don't need any justice system and coud hire a bunch of goons or private military to be the toughest baddest and all live under the guns.  
I wonder how many of such incidents could be prevented if people respected the justice system more to begin with.  





j


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## celtic_crippler (May 22, 2009)

If the criminal had complied in the first place none of this would have happened. 

He chose his actions: to assault an officer, to try and elude capture, to endanger innoncents in the process; therefore he chose the results of those actions and must accept them. 

I have absolutely no sympathy for this idiot or any other idiot that runs from the law, especially when they endanger the public in doing so.  

I don't condone evidence tampering, and I don't condone police brutality either but I don't feel like this guy should get rich off of this incident either. I guess I view police brutality as being "unprovoked." At any rate, the actions of the LE's involved should be investigated but this fellow got what he deserved. 

When are people going to realize there are consequences for making a choice and when one makes a bad choice the productive thing to do is learn from it so you don't make the same bad choice again. Making bad choices should not equate to hitting the lottery.


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## Flea (May 22, 2009)

jarrod said:


> 2) several years ago, i found a terrific deal on a trip to ireland & a friend said he'd go with me.  after we booked it i said something to him about how i wished we'd have more time to see more of the island.  until then, he didn't know ireland was an island.
> 
> jf
> 
> ...




When I first came home from several months hitch-hiking around Africa, I told an acquaintance about it.

"Africa!  That's a _biiiiiiig_ country!"

After spending several weeks giving classroom presentations and contributing to a book devoted to debunking Africa stereotypes, I just gave him a big **** eatin' grin.  "Sure is!"


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## Bob Hubbard (May 22, 2009)

Africa, isn't that under Mexico?


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## Flea (May 22, 2009)

Yeah, they speak Latin there.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 22, 2009)

Flea said:


> Yeah, they speak Latin there.



Potatoe!


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## jarrod (May 22, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> Do they need new names then? LOL!
> 
> I've heard Kentucky is nice, my daughter's boyfriend worked there for six months for a horse racing trainer.



depends on what you mean by nice.  the outdoors there are absolutely beautiful, & on the whole the people there are very, very friendly.  lots of poverty though, & i was surprised when i found out the state is still mostly dry (meaning no alcohol sales allowed).  fortunately i'd picked up a jug of wine in nashville the night before! 



celtic_crippler said:


> If the criminal had complied in the first place none of this would have happened.
> 
> He chose his actions: to assault an officer, to try and elude capture, to endanger innoncents in the process; therefore he chose the results of those actions and must accept them.
> 
> ...



well, yeah, & maybe if his daddy had played catch with him when he was little this wouldn't have happened either.

i agree that he shouldn't profit from this, & i don't exactly pity him.  but viewing police brutality as "unprovoked" allows for a pretty broad & dangerous interpretation.  give a cop some attitude while getting a ticket, & is that provoking him?  how about protesting too loudly?  kind of a slippery slope, imo.

jf


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## Tez3 (May 22, 2009)

You cannot have a good police force without discipline. Yes, it would be very hard to see your colleagues hurt by a criminal but you have to keep a professional head on. It's important to be professional so that when the case comes to court the guilty will be dealt with properly instead of the case being thrown out because you messed up!
Over emotional police officers who allow their standards to drop are no good to anyone. No one said it's an easy job but to gain the respect of people a police officer has to be beyond reproach, an old fashioned idea these days but one that is still true. If you can't stand the heat don't be a police officer!


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## celtic_crippler (May 22, 2009)

jarrod said:


> well, yeah, & maybe if his daddy had played catch with him when he was little this wouldn't have happened either.
> 
> i agree that he shouldn't profit from this, & i don't exactly pity him. but viewing police brutality as "unprovoked" allows for a pretty broad & dangerous interpretation. give a cop some attitude while getting a ticket, & is that provoking him? how about protesting too loudly? kind of a slippery slope, imo.
> 
> jf


 
Maybe his father should be held responsible if that's the case. That's my point, people don't accept responsibility for their actions anymore. It's never "my fault" it's always something else that's responsible. 

There's also a very big difference in attacking a police officer and fleeing and "giving some attitude." Let's not debate ridiculous semantics. 

I really don't think the cop should have jumped on the guys head and begin wailing on it like he did and probably deserves to be disciplined for it, but I also don't feel like the guy deserves to recieve any reward for having it done to him; he brought it on himself.


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## Flea (May 22, 2009)

> i was surprised when i found out the state is still mostly dry (meaning no alcohol sales allowed).



The sweetest irony of all being that the home of Maker's Mark - Bourbon County - is also a dry county.  You can't even buy it there, you have to go to Lexington.  It's a strange world, isn't it?


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## Big Don (May 22, 2009)

It has been almost 20 years since Rodney King's beating and cops still don't know about video?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 22, 2009)

DC area cops do.  11 cars stopped a reporter, not 1 had any cameras running, as req. by law.


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## Big Don (May 22, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> DC area cops do.  11 cars stopped a reporter, not 1 had any cameras running, as req. by law.


They don't know CYA either?! Holy Crap! I thought my grandpa exaggerated when he said only a moron would want to be a cop...


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## Archangel M (May 22, 2009)

I dont know about the "as required by law" part (but Im not from DC). In car video use is typically a departmental policy issue rather than "law".


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## jarrod (May 23, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> There's also a very big difference in attacking a police officer and fleeing and "giving some attitude." Let's not debate ridiculous semantics.



well, you just said unprovoked.  i just work with what i get around here.



Flea said:


> The sweetest irony of all being that the home of Maker's Mark - Bourbon County - is also a dry county. You can't even buy it there, you have to go to Lexington. It's a strange world, isn't it?



glad i didn't stop at the maker's mark distillery then.  the jim beam one provides some very nice samples though!

jf


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2009)

The DC case is a req. by law thing.  Threads around here somewhere with the links etc. That was a case where some reporter was following the chief who was using a uniformed cop as a driver or something.  

Problem with video is, it can save your ***, or hang it, depending on the situation.


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## Archangel M (May 23, 2009)

As it should...as long as the hanging is justified. Video can also be used out of context to make a justified situation appear wrong.

In this case it looks fairly clear.


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