# I ate a bacon cheeseburger today.



## Sam (Jun 30, 2006)

And it was good.

Thus ends 24 months of my vegetarian lifestyle.


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## Drac (Jun 30, 2006)

Welcome back to the world of carnivours? Are planning to stay or will you return to the Vegan lifestyle??


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## Lisa (Jun 30, 2006)

mmmm...bacon cheeseburger.  Now I know what to have for lunch today.


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## stickarts (Jun 30, 2006)

Thanks, now I am hungry!


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## terryl965 (Jun 30, 2006)

It is about you came to the dark side Sam, welcome back!!
Terry


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## Kreth (Jun 30, 2006)

About time you realized that vegetarianism is contrary to the natural order of things... :uhyeah:


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## Cryozombie (Jun 30, 2006)

Better that you ate it, than it ate you.​


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## crushing (Jun 30, 2006)

A bacon cheeseburger!?!?!

What a way to (gr)ease your way back into the omnivore world.  LOL.


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## Swordlady (Jun 30, 2006)

Mmmmmmmmm...bacon cheeseburger...


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## mrhnau (Jun 30, 2006)

*salivates uncontrollably*

There is this place nearby that serves the BEST burgers... cajun fries with that please  man... got me hungry already! hehe


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## mrhnau (Jun 30, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> And it was good.
> 
> Thus ends 24 months of my vegetarian lifestyle.



If you don't mind asking, did you have tummy aches afterwards? from people I've talked with, after fasting or going vegetarian for a long time, they have a bit of difficulty digesting meat and/or greasy food.

What made you change your mind and change your diet?


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## bobster_ice (Jun 30, 2006)

Tell me this...Why do vegaterians think they are "killing" the animal they are eating when it is already dead?

Im asking this because my ex girlfriend is a vegaterian.


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## Sam (Jun 30, 2006)

Drac - I was never Vegan, only vegetarian. I still ate milk and cheese and honey and butter and stuff. As for, should I stay or should I go, not quite sure. Because as Mr. H pointed out, while my stomach wasn't actually hurting, it was uneasy later in the evening. But while I was eating, I was perfectly fine.

As for what changed my mind... I wanted a bacon cheeseburger.

It also might interest some of you that I could NOT find information on the healthy way to STOP being a vegetarian. There is TONS of it out there on how to BECOME one, but not how to phase out of it.

Odd.

EDIT: to bobby - because it wouldnt have been killed if there wasnt a demand to eat it.


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## bobster_ice (Jun 30, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> I still ate milk.


 
How can you eat milk,lol.


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## bobster_ice (Jun 30, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> EDIT: to bobby - because it wouldnt have been killed if there wasnt a demand to eat it.


 
Thank you, ive always wanted to know that.


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## Grenadier (Jun 30, 2006)

Welcome aboard!  

There are many advantages to eating meat, and when it comes to getting easy-to-use iron, nothing beats red meat.  I honestly tried a vegetarian diet for a two month period, and felt anemic.  

It's all good, in moderation.  One step at a time, one day at a time.


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## mrhnau (Jun 30, 2006)

bobster_ice said:
			
		

> Tell me this...Why do vegaterians think they are "killing" the animal they are eating when it is already dead?
> 
> Im asking this because my ex girlfriend is a vegaterian.



Some people do it for that reason (I just can't kill that cute fuzzy animal!), some for religious reasons, some for health reasons (lose weight, lower cholesterol, etc). Some for all or some of the above combined.

One bad joke a vet friend of mine says... PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals

hehe


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## Swordlady (Jun 30, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> Drac - I was never Vegan, only vegetarian. I still ate milk and cheese and honey and butter and stuff. As for, should I stay or should I go, not quite sure. Because as Mr. H pointed out, while my stomach wasn't actually hurting, it was uneasy later in the evening. But while I was eating, I was perfectly fine.


 
Your body hasn't processed meat in a while, which is why you felt a bit uneasy.  At least you didn't get sick, like some other vegetarians who went back to eating meat.  If I were you, I'd still watch my intake of beef for a while, since it is harder to digest.  Definitely hold off on the filet mignon.


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## HKphooey (Jun 30, 2006)

bobster_ice said:
			
		

> Tell me this...Why do vegaterians think they are "killing" the animal they are eating when it is already dead?
> 
> Im asking this because my ex girlfriend is a vegaterian.


 
Well there are too schools, vegetarian and vegan.   I have a vegan friend that gave me a DVD of how food processing plants slaughter and treat the animals.  Pretty disturbing - But the next day I polished off 30 buffalo wings.   It is not so much the killing of the animal, it is the way they are killed.  

Sometimes he can drive me nuts.  He will not drink wine because most wines are filtered through animal skins and stomach linings.  Once again, the next day I had bottle of wine.   

When it come down to it, how do we know tomatoes are not screaming when we slice them up?


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 30, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> Sometimes he can drive me nuts. He will not drink wine because most wines are filtered through animal skins and stomach linings. Once again, the next day I had bottle of wine.
> 
> When it come down to it, how do we know tomatoes are not screaming when we slice them up?


 
Imagine what the grapes did when they were CRUSHED!!!!


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## HKphooey (Jun 30, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Imagine what the grapes did when they were CRUSHED!!!!


 
Especially by some stinky feet!  What a way to go!


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## Bigshadow (Jun 30, 2006)

Even worse, the mutilation and tortue of the grass in the yard when the lawn mower goes over it!  My heart bleeds for those little helpless blades of grass... :rofl:


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## shesulsa (Jun 30, 2006)

I have been vegetarian, vegan and omnivorous (which, btw, is what anybody who eats more than one category is, essentially, not carnivorous).

There are fruitarians who only eat the plant life produce once it has freed itself from the source independently or naturally (fruit falls from the tree, vine  between watermelon separates from the fruit).  This is FAR too limiting for our nutritional needs as humans.

As a vegetarian my cholesterol was 107; as a vegan my cholesterol was 64.  Too low.

I have noticed an enormous difference in how my body processes the beef I buy from the market as opposed to the beef my mother-in-law raises on her mini-farm.  They do not use hormones and the hay they buy is grown locally without spraying.  So by my own experiences, I think the way beefcattle are raised and fed has much more to do with the quality and necessity of their flesh for food.


			
				HKphooey said:
			
		

> Sometimes he can drive me nuts. He will not drink wine because most wines are filtered through animal skins and stomach linings.


No they're not.  I make wine at home and researched the industry standards.  Think about it - animal skins were used to HOLD wine and water - skin is not so porous that it can filter much.  Same with stomach lining which, btw, has been subjected to acid and enzymes repeatedly - straining through such a material could ruin the winemaking process.  Tell your friend to research a little more on vinting and to buy LOTS of wine from me, who uses cheesecloth and synthetic screening to strain fruit and lees.

As to the bacon cheeseburger ... my hips are cursing you, Sam! *drives to Wendy's*


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## Grenadier (Jun 30, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Imagine what the grapes did when they were CRUSHED!!!!


 
They "wine."


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 30, 2006)

Welcome back!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Cryozombie (Jun 30, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> Definitely hold off on the filet mignon.


 
Yes, ship all your filet mingon to me.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 30, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I have noticed an enormous difference in how my body processes the beef I buy from the market as opposed to the beef my mother-in-law raises on her mini-farm. They do not use hormones and the hay they buy is grown locally without spraying. So by my own experiences, I think the way beefcattle are raised and fed has much more to do with the quality and necessity of their flesh for food.


 
This is why myself, my instructor, and 2 other students at the dojo are buying a local cow and having it... um, made into an edible form. (Hey, that sounds better than saying butchered)

Not only is it, Lb for Lb cheaper and more cost effective than the Grocery store... we know what we are getting too.


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## shesulsa (Jun 30, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> This is why myself, my instructor, and 2 other students at the dojo are buying a local cow and having it... um, made into an edible form. (Hey, that sounds better than saying butchered)
> 
> Not only is it, Lb for Lb cheaper and more cost effective than the Grocery store... we know what we are getting too.


TP, I know you don't do dairy much, but do you have any friends who have consumed the products from dairy cattle who are also raised naturally?

There is a difference in the color of the milk and the fat.  The taste is milder but it ... well, it tastes cleaner, I don't know any other way to describe it.


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## mrhnau (Jun 30, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> This is why myself, my instructor, and 2 other students at the dojo are buying a local cow and having it... um, made into an edible form. (Hey, that sounds better than saying butchered)
> 
> Not only is it, Lb for Lb cheaper and more cost effective than the Grocery store... we know what we are getting too.



We have never raised cows/pigs or any form of beef, but we have done eggs, both hens and guineas. Good stuff... overall its a good bit cheaper, plus like you said, you know what you are getting..... I'd not mind doing eggs again


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## HKphooey (Jun 30, 2006)

_No they're not. I make wine at home and researched the industry standards. Think about it - animal skins were used to HOLD wine and water - skin is not so porous that it can filter much. Same with stomach lining which, btw, has been subjected to acid and enzymes repeatedly - straining through such a material could ruin the winemaking process. Tell your friend to research a little more on vinting and to buy LOTS of wine from me, who uses cheesecloth and synthetic screening to strain fruit and lees._

I stand corrected the animal byproducts are used in the "fining" process, no the filtering process.  My bad - I had a glass of wine on my mind)
Actually, my friend who owns a vegan restaurant (and is also wriiten up in vegan cooking mags) only serves about 10 different wines.  All the rest are not vegan friendly.  Most also use a milk by-product called lactic casein.  Hence, it is also not vegan-friendly.  They also use numerous other animal by-products in the fining process.

See also: http://www.answers.com/topic/vegan-wine

http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj97jan/971wine.htm

I have over 800 bottles of wine in my collection at any time and not one is vegan-friendly.  

Thanks for the correction on the filtering.  My wine buddies would have given me a bottle of Reunite for that one.  

If anyone is interseted in some great vegan recipes, let me know and I will post them


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 30, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> I have over 800 bottles of wine in my collection at any time and not one is vegan-friendly.


 
How COULD YOU!!!...think of the grapes man...the GRAPES... those poor tortured and murdered grapes....


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## MA-Caver (Jun 30, 2006)

bobster_ice said:
			
		

> Tell me this...Why do vegaterians think they are "killing" the animal they are eating when it is already dead?


Because they think that by demand they are ordering the killings to meet supply.

I've a better question for them. 
For us to eat one cheeseburger one animal has to die, for a bacon cheese burger two have to die.

How many things died to go into the salad they had? 
1. Lettuce (maybe more than one type)
2. Tomato
3. Cucumbers
4. Radishes
5. Bean Sprouts
and whatever else that goes in an all veggie salad... killing these things that were living by pulling them out of the ground or cutting them from their roots,  and so forth. 

Also for their consideration... 1 steer can feed hundreds of people, 1 head of lettuce at the most can probably feed 5-10 (generously). Which gives more food per weight. 

Some vegans take their diet far too seriously. 

Our cainine and molar teeth tells us that we are designed for both meat and vegtables.


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## someguy (Jun 30, 2006)

And the world mounrns the loss of another one of our kind...:wink:
So how was that tasty bacony humbuger goodness of...of I had better stop before I stop being a vegitarian.  
Well enjoy the meaty goodness.  I must admit that that is a good reason to eat a cheese burger.


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## shesulsa (Jun 30, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> I stand corrected the animal byproducts are used in the "fining" process, no the filtering process.  My bad - I had a glass of wine on my mind)
> Actually, my friend who owns a vegan restaurant (and is also wriiten up in vegan cooking mags) only serves about 10 different wines.  All the rest are not vegan friendly.  Most also use a milk by-product called lactic casein.  Hence, it is also not vegan-friendly.  They also use numerous other animal by-products in the fining process.
> 
> See also: http://www.answers.com/topic/vegan-wine
> ...



The additives for commercially made wines can contain MANY additives which is why we make our own.   Our wines are completely vegan friendly, organic and ... heh ... if I may say so, tasty and potent!


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## Nevada_MO_Guy (Jun 30, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> Thus ends 24 months of my vegetarian lifestyle.


Hey Sam,

Today bacon cheeseburger....tomorrow......Sushi 
:jaws:


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## hemi (Jun 30, 2006)

Well on the point of killing cows and the oh how terrible issue it has been my experience that when they kill the cow they use a spike gun. It uses a .22 cal round to drive a spike into the brain and death is instant Very humane. Now as someone that raised cows, and horses I can also say from experience that the cows are treated pretty rough when you take them to the vet. And dont get me started on how they de horn a cow, brand, ear tag for ticks or perform a pregnancy test I will leave that to the imagination LOL 

Beef its whats for dinner


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## crushing (Jun 30, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Also for their consideration... 1 steer can feed hundreds of people, 1 head of lettuce at the most can probably feed 5-10 (generously). Which gives more food per weight.



LOL!  But how many heads of lettuce, or or it's grass/hay/timothy/alfalfa/corn/grain equivalent does it take to make that 1 steer?

That being said, so when and where is the BBQ?  artyon:


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## Cryozombie (Jun 30, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Our wines are completely vegan friendly, organic and ... heh ... if I may say so, tasty and potent!



And no match for my beer


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## BrandiJo (Jun 30, 2006)

2004hemi said:
			
		

> Well on the point of killing cows and the oh how terrible issue it has been my experience that when they kill the cow they use a spike gun. It uses a .22 cal round to drive a spike into the brain and death is instant Very humane. Now as someone that raised cows, and horses I can also say from experience that the cows are treated pretty rough when you take them to the vet. And dont get me started on how they de horn a cow, brand, ear tag for ticks or perform a pregnancy test I will leave that to the imagination LOL
> 
> Beef its whats for dinner



Iv heard its not always so quick and painless, sometimes the spike misses? or somethin and the cow is alaive till it is gutted? i dunno tho haha my schools vegitarian so they are a bit biased iwth the info they pass out. As for me i am anemic as it is so no meat makes for a very sick me


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## shesulsa (Jul 1, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> And no match for my beer


*walks across the room, removes a white glove from pocket and slaps TP with it*

You're on.


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## Jonathan Randall (Jul 1, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> They "wine."


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## Don Roley (Jul 1, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> The additives for commercially made wines can contain MANY additives which is why we make our own.   Our wines are completely vegan friendly, organic and ... heh ... if I may say so, tasty and potent!



Yeah, one of the bottles you gave me I could not even take on the plane! The only rocket fuel they allow is in the tank.

Bacon cheeseburgers....:fanboy: Put some guacamole on that puppy and you have something worth killing a tasty animal over.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 1, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> *walks across the room, removes a white glove from pocket and slaps TP with it*
> 
> You're on.



Heh.  All the local ninjas say my stout blows Guiness out of the water, and they are Irish ninja to boot... you sure you wanna make that challenge?


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## shesulsa (Jul 1, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Heh.  All the local ninjas say my stout blows Guiness out of the water, and they are Irish ninja to boot... you sure you wanna make that challenge?


Ask Roley. :supcool:


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## someguy (Jul 1, 2006)

I'm willing to be the judge.  Send me a bottleor 5  0f the wine and a couple dozen beers.  I won't mind to much.


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## HKphooey (Jul 1, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> The additives for commercially made wines can contain MANY additives which is why we make our own.  Our wines are completely vegan friendly, organic and ... heh ... if I may say so, tasty and potent!


 
That is the best part!!!!!!!!!


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## Cryozombie (Jul 6, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Ask Roley. :supcool:



You goin to the M&G?

Bring Wine, Ill bring beer.  We will see who has the greater power.

Hmm, or maybe I should just Distill some Absinthe and cut out the middleman.


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## Cruentus (Jul 7, 2006)

Sam said:
			
		

> Drac - I was never Vegan, only vegetarian. I still ate milk and cheese and honey and butter and stuff. As for, should I stay or should I go, not quite sure. Because as Mr. H pointed out, while my stomach wasn't actually hurting, it was uneasy later in the evening. But while I was eating, I was perfectly fine.
> 
> As for what changed my mind... I wanted a bacon cheeseburger.
> 
> ...


 
It is a good thing your back to normal. I respect peoples choices, but I will say that being a vegetarian is not natural or good for you by any means.

The reason for the tummy ache is because when you stop eating meat, you lose natural digestive enzymes that aid in digestion of meat. As long as these aren't completely gone (and since you didn't vomit, I wouldn't think so) then your fine.

The key is, as with many things, moderation. Eat healthy and clean and keep the portions small until your able to digest the meat without any sickness. Eat a lot of raw food also, and balance your alkaline/acidic foods. This is the healthy way to "get back on the wagon."

There are certian enzymes that your body craves that you simply can't get from any other source but meat - particularly red meat (beef, lamb, etc.). Eating meat is good for you dispite what people want to tell you.

And as for the natural order of things....these things all require balance. Without the omnivorus and carniverous preditor, animals like deer (for example) will overpopulate and starve to death by the hundreds. There is a reason mother nature has species that are carnivors, omnivors, and scavengers. I am all for animal rights, and I do think it is discusting how corporate farms abuse animals in captivity; but I am not about to go to extremes and ignore the realities of nature...

Paul


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## Kreth (Jul 7, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> You goin to the M&G?
> 
> Bring Wine, Ill bring beer. We will see who has the greater power.
> 
> Hmm, or maybe I should just Distill some Absinthe and cut out the middleman.


I'll offer my services as an unbiased test imbiber. :uhyeah:


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