# How I train my horse stance



## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

I just wanted to share my approach to horse stance.

I train my horse stance at different heights.  High, medium, low.  Each stance represent the levels that I fight at.  Each level has different strengths and weaknesses depending on my opponent's approach to attacking me.  I train static and dynamic horse stances as both are equally important.  It doesn't just train muscles; it also strengthens and conditions ligaments and tendons. I don't clear my mind when training my stances.  I focus and try to become aware of every movement in my body no matter how small.  I pay attention to weight shifts, imbalances, structure, and tension.  I try to become aware of tension that occurs throughout my body.  I try to relax and determine which muscles should be tense and which I can relax.   What looks like a boring exercise often becomes a drill in becoming more aware of my body and the all movements and changes.

I never have a horse stance lower than what I will fight in.  I rarely hold a horse stance for more than 2 minutes


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

I forgot to add that I train with fists chambered or my arms extended. This helps me understand how my center of balance changes and how to regain it.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 31, 2017)

Our horse stance is much higher than that of most TMA as I understand it.  We call it shiko dachi or seuinchin dachi.  One of the things I've been taught is that if you can't readily kick out of the stance, it's too low.  Not a critique of anyone else's stance, just how we do it.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I just wanted to share my approach to horse stance.
> 
> I train my horse stance at different heights.  High, medium, low.  Each stance represent the levels that I fight at.  Each level has different strengths and weaknesses depending on my opponent's approach to attacking me.  I train static and dynamic horse stances as both are equally important.  It doesn't just train muscles; it also strengthens and conditions ligaments and tendons. I don't clear my mind when training my stances.  I focus and try to become aware of every movement in my body no matter how small.  I pay attention to weight shifts, imbalances, structure, and tension.  I try to become aware of tension that occurs throughout my body.  I try to relax and determine which muscles should be tense and which I can relax.   What looks like a boring exercise often becomes a drill in becoming more aware of my body and the all movements and changes.
> 
> I never have a horse stance lower than what I will fight in.  I rarely hold a horse stance for more than 2 minutes


I see horse stance as a really good conditioning tool, I struggle to find any value as a fighting tool. Unless there is a need to lower you centre of gravity


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I see horse stance as a really good conditioning tool, I struggle to find any value as a fighting tool. Unless there is a need to lower you centre of gravity


When is there not a need?


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

I think the Horse stance is crucial, and you should be able to stand in it for hours. Martial arts, for the most part, is about your personal safety, and it is safer to constantly reset, so that you are ready to defend or take advantage. The Horse stance is a good home base, and the stronger it is, the better.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

most of the time there is no need, if some one is trying to hip throw you, it could come in handy, I'm quite tall, that gives me an advantage, why would I give that up, make myself 5ft tall and be in an awkward position that hard to get out at a any speed


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## Martial D (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> When is there not a need?


I guess when you are fighting 5 armed opponents with your elite knife disarm skills.

Oh...sorry. Wrong thread.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Martial D said:


> I guess when you are fighting 5 armed opponents with your elite knife disarm skills.
> 
> Oh...sorry. Wrong thread.


I would suggest lowering your center of gravity, in that situation. You wont have as far to fall.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> most of the time there is no need, if some one is trying to hip throw you, it could come in handy, I'm quite tall, that gives me an advantage, why would I give that up, make myself 5ft tall and be in an awkward position that hard to get out at a any speed


You can't fight like a jungle cat, unless you position yourself like a jungle cat.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Theoretically, if your opponent know what he is doing, he will also get shorter.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Martial D said:


> I guess when you are fighting 5 armed opponents with your elite knife disarm skills.
> 
> Oh...sorry. Wrong thread.


I thought you we're putting me on ignore? See you can't stick to your word on anythng


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> You can't fight like a jungle cat, unless you position yourself like a jungle cat.


I can see a slight bendyness might be useful, I go on my toes like a boxer, but not deep deep horse stance


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I thought you we're putting me on ignore? See you can't stick to your word on anythng


That wasn't me.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I can see a slight bendyness might be useful, I go on my toes like a boxer, but not deep deep horse stance


I didn't say it should be deep.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Deep stances are misunderstandings. LOL


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## Martial D (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I thought you we're putting me on ignore? See you can't stick to your word on anythng


Innane comments like that, along with your lack of reading comprehension and constant bad advice like the post above that make me wonder if you have any actual martial arts experience at all are why I have you on ignore.

I just clicked the show ignored content button to see what he was laughing at.


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2017)

When I trained Ma bu (Horse Stance) it was very similar to this







I no longer train Ma Bu


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## Paul_D (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I think the Horse stance is crucial, and you should be able to stand in it for hours.


Horse stance is there to teach you how to drop your body weight and keep your balance (back straight, bent legs, rather than the other way around).  You will be in it fleetingly, it is a postion you pass through.  It's not a position you get into and then fight, so I don't understand why you need to be able to stay in it for hours?


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I thought you we're putting me on ignore? See you can't stick to your word on anythng


I take offense! What self respecting troll would put someone on ignore? It would defeat the purpose....


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Horse stance is there to teach you how to drop your body weight and keep your balance (back straight, bent legs, rather than the other way around).  You will be in it fleetingly, it is a postion you pass through.  It's not a position you get into and then fight, so I don't understand why you need to be able to stay in it for hours?


Its the knees bent thing. Your stances are just variations of that basic depth, and why not fight at that level?


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> When I trained Ma bu (Horse Stance) it was very similar to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is weird.


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## Martial D (May 31, 2017)

Trolling internet forums is not without it's entertainment value to be sure, but I like this one because it allows me to talk shop about one of my life's great and longstanding passions. 

If I want to argue with people that can't spell and have nothing to offer me I'll hit up Reddit


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I think the Horse stance is crucial, and you should be able to stand in it for hours. Martial arts, for the most part, is about your personal safety, and it is safer to constantly reset, so that you are ready to defend or take advantage. The Horse stance is a good home base, and the stronger it is, the better.



I believe it is a good base, and there was a time I would have agreed with hours, although very few have that kind of time, but today I find that any stance training gives you a good base but too much dependence on a stationary stance, any stationary stance, can easily produce double weightiness and that is not good, because ultimately that posture must move, and in the case of some stances, the structure must also be maintained.


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## Martial D (May 31, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> When I trained Ma bu (Horse Stance) it was very similar to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I tried out hung gar for a minute. This picture reminds me of sore quads. :/


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## Xue Sheng (May 31, 2017)

Martial D said:


> I tried out hung gar for a minute. This picture reminds me of sore quads. :/



That's Tony Yang and Bajiquan training. And yes, it is painful, as is any stance training. And as long as it is not joint pain, you're ok


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## Paul_D (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Its the knees bent thing. Your stances are just variations of that basic depth, and why not fight at that level?


Depends on the level I suppose, but why do need to be in it for hours?


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Depends on the level I suppose, but why do need to be in it for hours?


I said you should be able to. It is just an exercise, that should feel natural, so, if you only can do it for a few minutes, you are skipping leg day.


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## DanT (May 31, 2017)

Shaolin Horse Stance

In Shaolin we have 3 heights. 

High: High Cat Stance
Low: Horse Stance, Bow Stance, Cat Stance
Drop: Drop Stance, Cross Stance

Our Horse stance, Bow Stance, and Cat Stance are all the same heights as in the photo above.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> Unless there is a need to lower you centre of gravity


Such as: hip throw, shoulder throw, firemen's carry, embracing throw, ...


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 31, 2017)

IMO, this horse stance is too wide. If you use your leg to "spring" one of his legs from inside out (to make his stance even wider), he will fall.

A proper horse stance should not have this issue.


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## Flying Crane (May 31, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Depends on the level I suppose, but why do need to be in it for hours?


You don't need it for hours.  In fact, if you are doing it properly, it will be very difficult to build up to five minutes.

Stance training is not just deep, stationary stances. That is part of it, it builds useful strength in the legs.  

However, you also need to understand what to do with that strength.  In traditional Chinese martial arts (and others too) power for your technique originates in the feet and legs, and drives movement through the upper body.  There needs to be other drills that you do to teach you how to use this strength and employ it in your technique.

People think that stance training is just getting as deep as you can and feeling the burn.  It's not.  There is more to it than that. The stance itself does not do much for you.  Using it means transition from one stance to another.  Not for the sake of the stance, but for the movement that is useful.  The stance is just the beginning or end posture.  It is the movement and the change in posture that matters, that is where you do the work, unleash a powerful technique.

Standing in a deep stance does not, by itself, teach you rooting.  Rooting is an active action, you brace the feet deliberately into the ground, pressing with the legs.  If you don't actively "root" then you are just standing on your feet like they are platforms.  That is standing.  It is not rooting, even if you are in a low stance.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I see horse stance as a really good conditioning tool, I struggle to find any value as a fighting tool. Unless there is a need to lower you centre of gravity


I'm hoping I can make a short video of my horse stance and explain why I train it the way I do.  There's a lot of benefits from it but I'll try to keep it short and limit the video to things that people can see vs things that they won't be able to see, such as me being aware of balance changes in my stand.   Maybe I'll go over the practical application of defense, mobility, and maybe attack.  Some of the attacks will be things mainly found in kung fu.   For now this is about as close as I can show in terms of the horse stance.  You can clearly see a horse stance in the video.  The only real difference is the one that they are showing is for wrestling and it doesn't position the upper body with the necessary structure to punch or kick.





This explains the benefit of stances.  One could almost think Martial Arts and all of what he says would apply to martial arts stances.  At 2:41 you will see him in a similar stance that I use except that I'm not leaning forward.  Leaning forward takes away my options to strike effectively while I'm that low.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> You don't need it for hours.  In fact, if you are doing it properly, it will be very difficult to build up to five minutes.
> 
> Stance training is not just deep, stationary stances. That is part of it, it builds useful strength in the legs.
> 
> ...


Lately I've been blasting classmates with "one inch punch" range demonstrations (I've been training short power lately).  The only difference is that they don't fly backwards they get whip lash lol.  I've also have been pushing people off backwards like it's nothing, even when they are pushing into me with all their strength.  I can't do any of this without my leg strength and the stance.  Because none of those things are done by trying to muscle through it.


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## Paul_D (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I said you should be able to. It is just an exercise, that should feel natural, so, if you only can do it for a few minutes, you are skipping leg day.


Fair enough


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## Paul_D (May 31, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> In traditional Chinese martial arts (and others too) power for your technique originates in the feet and legs, and drives movement through the upper body.  There needs to be other drills that you do to teach you how to use this strength and employ it in your technique.


Yes, that's more in line with what I know.  As opposed to being in the stance for hours.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I said you should be able to. It is just an exercise, that should feel natural, so, if you only can do it for a few minutes, you are skipping leg day.


not convinced , the science books tells us that isometric exercises are quite good a building strengh, but only close to the angle the joint is at, whist in isometric  tension. So all a horse stance does for strengh is make you very good at doing horse stance. It's carry over in to general leg strengh will be limited. If you did a series of isometric holds from legs slightly bent to bum on the grass, then you would experience increased strengh through the entire range of motion or you could go with the tried and tested techneque of squatting's a bit of weight


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> not convinced , the science books tells us that isometric exercises are quite good a building strengh, but only close to the angle the joint is at, whist in isometric  tension. So all a horse stance does for strengh is make you very good at doing horse stance. It's carry over in to general leg strengh will be limited. If you did a series of isometric holds from legs slightly bent to bum on the grass, then you would experience increased strengh through the entire range of motion or you could go with the tried and tested techneque of squatting's a bit of weight


I am not suggesting you only use the horse stance, I am suggesting you should be comfortable with your knees bent.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

Power used to be important.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> You don't need it for hours.  In fact, if you are doing it properly, it will be very difficult to build up to five minutes.
> 
> 
> .


AND in all honesty pointless, its only doing something when it hurts, if you can do two hours and it only hurts for the last five. Mins, then that's all the benefit you  get out of it. Except you have wasted one hour fifty five mins of your life sitting on an invisible chair. If five mins is too easy, stick some weight on your back till it hurts again


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## Flying Crane (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> AND in all honesty pointless, its only doing something when it hurts, if you can do two hours and it only hurts for the last five. Mins, then that's all the benefit you  get out of it. Except you have wasted one hour fifty five mins of your life sitting on an invisible chair. If five mins is too easy, stick some weight on your back till it hurts again


I suggest that you should not do horse stance.

Problem solved.  That was easy.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> I suggest that you should not do horse stance.
> 
> Problem solved.  That was easy.


but I do, its in the middle of my very slow isokinetic squat

I'm trying to work out what benefits people think they get from holding it for an extended amount of time, other than if your at a dinner and there are no chairs left


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> the science books tells us that isometric exercises are quite good a building strengh, but only close to the angle the joint is


 What do the books say about isometric exercises in the context of fighting and how it contributes to the elements related to being able to move, withstand, and maintain joint, tendon, and ligament health?  "The books" are just now learning about the benefits of Tai Chi and that the slow movement goes way beyond just building strength.




jobo said:


> So all a horse stance does for strengh is make you very good at doing horse stance. It's carry over in to general leg strengh will be limited.



From someone that does a horse stance a lot and uses the horse stance a lot.  I can tell you from first hand that this is not true.  My original post even highlights that more goes on than "just a horse stance"



jobo said:


> If you did a series of isometric holds from legs slightly bent to bum on the grass, then you would experience increased strengh through the entire range of motion or you could go with the tried and tested techneque of squatting's a bit of weight


1st.  That's not a horse stance and 2nd.  As for what you are referring to.  There's a different.






In terms of a horse stance, there is no need to push all the way up.  Do you do full squat extensions with your legs when you spar or fight? or do you keep your knees bent for the majority of the time?
Show me the mechanics of a full range leg squat in this fight?  Did it out number the times the fighters shifted in and out of horse and bow stance?  Did they have strong stances or were they often trying to regain balance?   How often did they have their legs straight with their knees almost locked out vs them having their legs bent.




[/QUOTE]


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> What do the books say about isometric exercises in the context of fighting and how it contributes to the elements related to being able to move, withstand, and maintain joint, tendon, and ligament health?  "The books" are just now learning about the benefits of Tai Chi and that the slow movement goes way beyond just building strength.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
its really hard to read when you mess the quotes up. Slow movement are good for something's fast movements better for other things
that not in dispute. I use both in my training

but the substantive points remain. Horse stance can only increase strengh at the aprox angle you have your legs at during the hold. The only thing that is useful for is increasing the length of time you can hold your horse stance for. No one hold a horse stance for even 1 mins in a fight

so what possible benefit does holding it for an hour or more give you? It's a genuine question.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> its really hard to read when you mess the quotes up.


Sorry about that.  Not sure what happened there.



jobo said:


> No one hold a horse stance for even 1 mins in a fight so what possible benefit does holding it for an hour or more give you? It's a genuine question.


The longest I've held mine was about 42 seconds when sparring against a guy working on his his take downs.  Had the round been longer then I would have kept the stance for longer.  I have 2 videos of me fighting while in a deep horse stance. Some of the people here have seen these videos.  Once against a guy that I working on his take downs and another against a guy that was working on his takedowns and striking.  In both videos you can see how the horse stance benefited me.



jobo said:


> so what possible benefit does holding it for an hour or more give you? It's a genuine question.


I'm not a supporter of holding a horse stance for an hour so that's not something you would hear me defend.  My only point is that the horse stance training helps a lot more than what people think, which is why started this thread.  When I get time to make the video, I will share and explain without writing a book.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Sorry about that.  Not sure what happened there.
> 
> The longest I've held mine was about 42 seconds when sparring against a guy working on his his take downs.  Had the round been longer then I would have kept the stance for longer.  I have 2 videos of me fighting while in a deep horse stance. Some of the people here have seen these videos.  Once against a guy that I working on his take downs and another against a guy that was working on his takedowns and striking.  In both videos you can see how the horse stance benefited me.
> 
> I'm not a supporter of holding a horse stance for an hour so that's not something you would hear me defend.  My only point is that the horse stance training helps a lot more than what people think, which is why started this thread.  When I get time to make the video, I will share and explain without writing a book.


I'm not saying its not usefull, I'm more railing about the folks who use duration as some sort of test of fitness or manliness'

id like to see your vids if you can link them


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

the biggest problem with isometrics' in general is they can massively over load your nervous system, and need days to recover from if you over do them. I have sat there with the shakes on many an evening having pushed to far.


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> AND in all honesty pointless, its only doing something when it hurts, if you can do two hours and it only hurts for the last five. Mins, then that's all the benefit you  get out of it. Except you have wasted one hour fifty five mins of your life sitting on an invisible chair. If five mins is too easy, stick some weight on your back till it hurts again


I will put your suggestion, in my circular file.


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## Flying Crane (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not saying its not usefull, I'm more railing about the folks who use duration as some sort of test of fitness or manliness'
> 
> id like to see your vids if you can link them


It is not a test of manliness or fitness.  It is an exercise.  In that regard, it's like throwing a bunch of side kicks. It's an exercise to improve your ability.  It takes time, it doesn't all happen over night, in the same way that one session of throwing side kicks will not give you perfect side kicks.

If you can only hold your horse for thirty seconds, then that is where you start.  Build it gradually.  If you can only throw thirty side kicks of high quality, then that is where you start.  Build it gradually.

I personally don't have time to stand in horse for hours, or one hour, or half an hour.  I was routinely doing about six minutes in deep horse, after a 3-5 mile run.  It was good strength and conditioning for my legs.  I also routinely would do other leg and stance drills, to help me develop useful skills with that strength, as I described in an earlier post.

The ability to hold the stance is not the purpose.  The exercise builds your strength and stamina, which is then useful.  That is the purpose.


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> It is not a test of manliness or fitness.  It is an exercise.  In that regard, it's like throwing a bunch of side kicks. It's an exercise to improve your ability.  It takes time, it doesn't all happen over night, in the same way that one session of throwing side kicks will not give you perfect side kicks.
> 
> If you can only hold your horse for thirty seconds, then that is where you start.  Build it gradually.  If you can only throw thirty side kicks of high quality, then that is where you start.  Build it gradually.
> 
> ...


we are just going round in circles, the only skill it gives is an ability to do longer horse stance's. The  strengh it builds is only useful for doing more/ longer horse stance


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> we are just going round in circles, the only skill it gives is an ability to do longer horse stance's. The  strengh it builds is only useful for doing more/ longer horse stance


Sure, why not?


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## jobo (May 31, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I will put your suggestion, in my circular file.


I think that the realisation that you have wasted months standing in a stance to no good purpose is hard for you to take


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## Touch Of Death (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I think that the realisation that you have wasted months standing in a stance to no good purpose is hard for you to take


Try thirty years.


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## Flying Crane (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> we are just going round in circles, the only skill it gives is an ability to do longer horse stance's. The  strengh it builds is only useful for doing more/ longer horse stance


Then I refer you back to my earlier post, #41 in this thread.  Please review the advice freely given at that point in the discussion.


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## JowGaWolf (May 31, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not saying its not usefull, I'm more railing about the folks who use duration as some sort of test of fitness or manliness'
> 
> id like to see your vids if you can link them


I'll try to upload them this week to youtube and I'll post the link here.  Then I'll take it down after you have had a chance to see it.


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## Headhunter (Jun 1, 2017)

In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high. I don't see any value to having a super low stance a good one yes but not one where your knees are nearly touching the floor. I mean look at boxers or mma fighters the majority don't use super low stances and yet they can still hit and have good balance


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## Flying Crane (Jun 1, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high. I don't see any value to having a super low stance a good one yes but not one where your knees are nearly touching the floor. I mean look at boxers or mma fighters the majority don't use super low stances and yet they can still hit and have good balance


Nobody is advocating that you get into a deep stance and then stay there while fighting.


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## jobo (Jun 1, 2017)

Flying Crane said:


> Nobody is advocating that you get into a deep stance and then stay there while fighting.


well what the point of practising them then.
no body advocates' balancing a banana on you head whilst fighting,therefore no one practises banana balancing


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> well what the point of practising them then.
> no body advocates' balancing a banana on you head whilst fighting,therefore no one practises banana balancing


There is none. Throw it away. Anything else? Throw it away, too.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> well what the point of practising them then.
> no body advocates' balancing a banana on you head whilst fighting,therefore no one practises banana balancing


I again invite you to review my advice to you in post #41.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not saying its not usefull, I'm more railing about the folks who use duration as some sort of test of fitness or manliness'
> 
> id like to see your vids if you can link them


IMPORTANT!* IMPORTANT!* *IMPORTANT!*  This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video"  This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn.  This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess.  What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train.  I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn.  You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.

Now on the discussion of the horse stance.  In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels.  In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance.  As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques.  Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination.  You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes.  You will also see student break contact when the command was giving.   *RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds:*  No kicking.

In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance.  You will also see the effects of this.  This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground.  It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with.  I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> IMPORTANT!* IMPORTANT!* *IMPORTANT!*  This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video"  This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn.  This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess.  What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train.  I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn.  You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.
> 
> Now on the discussion of the horse stance.  In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels.  In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance.  As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques.  Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination.  You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes.  You will also see student break contact when the command was giving.   *RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds:*  No kicking.
> 
> In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance.  You will also see the effects of this.  This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground.  It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with.  I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.


Nice.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2017)

I basically do your high stance, with my legs bent a little more. The deep stance thing is not in my arsenal.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I basically do your high stance, with my legs bent a little more. The deep stance thing is not in my arsenal.


The deep stance isn't a stance that needs to always be done.  It's one of those time and place type things where if the situation requires it then you can use it. If legs are too weak to maintain a low or even just a "lower than high" stance then that lower stance isn't an option, it's a burden.

I also recognized and accept that some fighting systems don't have or train techniques that utilizes the low stance.  If a system doesn't have techniques that utilize a low stance then there's no need to practice using a low stance.  The system I train in has a lot of techniques that are designed to be used at the same height of a low stance as a result we require some really strong legs


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## jobo (Jun 1, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> IMPORTANT!* IMPORTANT!* *IMPORTANT!*  This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video"  This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn.  This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess.  What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train.  I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn.  You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.
> 
> Now on the discussion of the horse stance.  In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels.  In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance.  As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques.  Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination.  You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes.  You will also see student break contact when the command was giving.   *RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds:*  No kicking.
> 
> In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance.  You will also see the effects of this.  This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground.  It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with.  I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.


thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low


Is that bad?


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## jobo (Jun 1, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Is that bad?


no, not from my point of view, I envisaged something like the picture above. I could very nearly go that low, even with my hip mobility issues


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high. I don't see any value to having a super low stance a good one yes but not one where your knees are nearly touching the floor. I mean look at boxers or mma fighters the majority don't use super low stances and yet they can still hit and have good balance


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> thanks for that, you look a bit good, respect, but you low stance isn't that low


It's a low stance. I think you have a misconception of what a low horse stance actually is.  You only need to look at the height difference between me an my opponent to tell that I'm in a low stance.

The videos below are not proper low horse stance. You can tell by his structure that he will not be able to move effectively while in a stance like this.  .





This is also not correct





You won't ever see me in a stance this low unless I'm grappling or defending against someone trying to take me down.  This picture is from one of the grappling classes I was teaching.   At this height the goal is not to be mobile in my stance. The student in the white is shorter than me.  The girl in the picture is definitely shorter than me, yet I'm the same height as her.
In the picture (A year after the videos of me) I asked to student to try to take me down by either going for my waist or my legs.  I started in a high fighting stance, he went for the take down so I dropped my stance. What you see in the picture is him putting on the breaks, had he continued he would have ran into my fist. My waist is beyond his reach.  If he tries to grab my leg then, my response will be to hit him in his head as he tried.  My hands are free to assist in my defense of a take down.  If he tries to rush me, I'll just simply step back and use his energy against him.  From this stance I still have the option to Heel kick, snap kick (toe kick), side kick, and a kick to the shin by using my rear leg. (Joe Rogan calls it an oblique kick).  I 'm also can launch a knee strike from this position as my knees are already in the position to jump, leap, shuffle forward.  I can also do a sweep from this position as well.  Because I'm already low, the sweep will come out sooner.  The other thing about this stance is that it's not permanent.  I can come out of the stance once the threat of a take down is either gone or greatly reduced.   I still have forward and backward mobility at this height, but it's forward and backward mobility over a short distance.  I can't dance around around a ring with the agility of a boxer at this height.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> no, not from my point of view, I envisaged something like the picture above. I could very nearly go that low, even with my hip mobility issues


The reality of a horse stance is that it's not based on a height as much as your own body structure.  What would be low for you may not be low for me, but what it is to me doesn't matter.  The rule that I use for a horse stance is that if you cannot do anything but stand in a horse, then the stance is too low.   There is a limit of how low I can go with a horse stance because I begin to not only have mobility issues but I also start burning more energy than needed just to take a stance.   A lot of the horse stances that we see people do are wrong.  People often do a horse stance for the sake of making it low.  They don't think about function so long as it's low.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 1, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> The reality of a horse stance is that it's not based on a height as much as your own body structure.  What would be low for you may not be low for me, but what it is to me doesn't matter.  The rule that I use for a horse stance is that if you cannot do anything but stand in a horse, then the stance is too low.   There is a limit of how low I can go with a horse stance because I begin to not only have mobility issues but I also start burning more energy than needed just to take a stance.   A lot of the horse stances that we see people do are wrong.  People often do a horse stance for the sake of making it low.  They don't think about function so long as it's low.


Such as, butt sagging below the level of the knees, toes splayed outward.  Those are signs that you are too low.


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## jobo (Jun 1, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> It's a low stance. I think you have a misconception of what a low horse stance actually is.  You only need to look at the height difference between me an my opponent to tell that I'm in a low stance.
> 
> The videos below are not proper low horse stance. You can tell by his structure that he will not be able to move effectively while in a stance like this.  .
> 
> ...


that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> In a lot of traditional places you always see them saying drop your stances but when they do it their stances are quite high.


I think this is one of those misconceptions of technique vs applications.  I've tried to drop my stance in the past and I go it wrong a lot before I started to get it right.  Again this is a technique that is for a specific defense at a specific point in time.   The solution or technique isn't 
Step 1: Drop stance.

The solution is
Step 1: Drop stance
Step 2: Do something that takes advantage of your opponent's lost of balance caused by the stance drop.  The technique will fail you every time if you don't do #2

You can see the drop stance technique fail here. The hung ga guy did everything wrong with dropping the stance.  A stance drop is quick.  He lowered himself. and his timing was off. The video seems to have cut off but the stance drop should have happened before the guy had a chance to get a good grip on him.  After that grip, he should have used his stance to do a different technique and not a stance drop.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2017)

jobo said:


> that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
> doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought


You being smaller means that you can force taller and bigger people to improperly lift you. 
*
Scenario: *Mark 2:23 in the sparring video.
*Problem:* A taller person tries to pick you up.
*Solution:* Make yourself lower and force your attacker to lift you incorrectly. From here the goal is to force your opponent to do a bad lift, then he will strain his back. Not sure if you had a back injury from lifting something the wrong way, but it is guaranteed to either stop the person from lifting or slow the person down.  


How to make it work.  Start low enough where your opponent has to reach down lower than he should to lift you.  This is where the stance comes into play.  It doesn't have to be a super low stance, just low enough to make your opponent take a bad angle at lifting you.  The taller they are higher your stance can be.  If they are your same height then you'll have to use the low stance. 

You want to have your arms around your opponents waist because you need to try to put a curve in your opponents back. This is done by putting weight as close to the neck as possible.  Keep in mind you have to do this quickly. Once you feel like you are in good enough position Jerk your body downward (aka drop stance, drop your weight).  Now here's the secret so that the bigger person won't out muscle you.    Before you drop your weight. You need to start turning your opponent's body right before you drop.  This way you can get him to resist you in one direction while your weight drop takes advantage of it.  This is why you see my opponent turn when I dropped my weight.  He had to fight me turning him, fight an improper lift, and fight a downward motion almost all at the same time.   

*Scenario: *Mark 1:04 in the sparring video.
*Problem:* If the taller person comes on top of you
*Solution: *First be low enough so you can attack below his waist.  If the taller person presses in, then lift him from the bottom.  You'll need to be in a good stance or you'll risk hurting your back.

It is difficult for a taller person to get down on your level because they have to work twice as hard to keep that same height.  They may hit you with other techniques but you'll have the advantage to uproot them.  Not sure if you have experienced this as a kid, but when I was kid I would lift guys who were double my weight, simply by lifting them from their legs.  I only needed to lift them high enough to were they lose balance and the top weight falls over.  It's like a human caber toss.
 Caber toss reference.


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## Buka (Jun 2, 2017)

I only practice my horse stance outside my buddy George's house.

First, you gotta' catch the sucker...


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> that one looks a good bit lower than the one in the vid. I find a lot of martial arts counter intuitive. I learnt to fight as a young man when I had little body weight, commonly against people a 60 lbs heaver than me. So I'm programed to use the physical advantages I have, which was my height/, range my speed and my mobility. I also don't defend, I attack. I hit people as hard and as often as i could. To take them out them before they could use their weight/ strengh against me.
> doing anything that makes me smaller and less mobile just seems wrong. But then seeing you do it and make it work very well, gives pause for thought


I don't know how good being taller does you if you have no power. Use as shallow a stance as you want, just bend your knees for power.


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## jobo (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I don't know how good being taller does you if you have no power. Use as shallow a stance as you want, just bend your knees for power.


you generate power by going up on you toes, falling into you target,giving forward moment, body rotation and speed of movement. This actual increases your height advantage meaning you punching downwards , over their guard


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> you generate power by going up on you toes, falling into you target,giving forward moment, body rotation and speed of movement. This actual increases your height advantage leaning you punching downwards , over their guard


You lost me.


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## jobo (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> You lost me.


you get your spring from your calf muscles,  not you thighs.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> you get your spring from your calf muscles,  not you thighs.


Sure, but why would I rise up on my toes, to thrust? It is more a steady downhill slide.


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## jobo (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Sure, but why would I rise up on my toes, to thrust? It is more a steady downhill slide.


, because it makes you taller to hit downwards over their guard, you use the rise to propel you forward increasing your momentum. It's a pretty standard boxing punch. It's not a new invention of mine


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> , because it makes you taller to hit downwards over their guard, you use the rise to propel you forward increasing your momentum. It's a pretty standard boxing punch. It's not a new invention of mine


Thrusting and hooking over the top, are not the same thing.


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## jobo (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Thrusting and hooking over the top, are not the same thing.


no the same,I'm 6.1 tall that 6.6 when I'm on my toes, if I get a bit of elevation that 6.8 . I'm not hooking ng over the top I'm hitting downwards at the same time my full body weight is falling


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> no the same,I'm 6.1 tall that 6.6 when I'm on my toes, if I get a bit of elevation that 6.8 . I'm not hooking ng over the top I'm hitting downwards at the same time my full body weight is falling


If your elbow is not anchored, and on center line, it is a falling over hand.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> If your elbow is not anchored, and on center line, it is a falling over hand.


Which explains why you don't think the thigh is involved.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> no the same,I'm 6.1 tall that 6.6 when I'm on my toes, if I get a bit of elevation that 6.8 . I'm not hooking ng over the top I'm hitting downwards at the same time my full body weight is falling


Don't get me wrong. This sounds cool, and we do something similar, but it is different.


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## drop bear (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> no the same,I'm 6.1 tall that 6.6 when I'm on my toes, if I get a bit of elevation that 6.8 . I'm not hooking ng over the top I'm hitting downwards at the same time my full body weight is falling



I cant think of any strike that hits on the downward fall like that. Exept mabye an axe kick or something. Do you have a photo?

I mean an overhand will generally rely on a deep stance.






A superman punch you get up off the ground. But it is an airborne technique.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 2, 2017)

Buka said:


> I only practice my horse stance outside my buddy George's house.
> 
> First, you gotta' catch the sucker...
> 
> View attachment 20790


nice lol


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

drop bear said:


> I cant think of any strike that hits on the downward fall like that. Exept mabye an axe kick or something. Do you have a photo?
> 
> I mean an overhand will generally rely on a deep stance.
> 
> ...


He is saying, just tip forward, and punch down.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> you generate power by going up on you toes, falling into you target,giving forward moment, body rotation and speed of movement. This actual increases your height advantage meaning you punching downwards , over their guard


Wow.  I'll have to open another thread about how I generate power lol.   You are the first person I have ever heard to say that.  Congrats.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Wow.  I'll have to open another thread about how I generate power lol.   You are the first person I have ever heard to say that.  Congrats.


We have a thing where you catch yourself with a punch to his body, and you can lift your lead leg, because, he has got you, but we aren't leaners, unless we are trying to rest.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 2, 2017)

jobo said:


> no the same,I'm 6.1 tall that 6.6 when I'm on my toes, if I get a bit of elevation that 6.8 . I'm not hooking ng over the top I'm hitting downwards at the same time my full body weight is falling


From what you are describing the mechanics of what you are saying sound off.  I try to picture myself trying to hit a kid with your technique (because the height difference would be similar) but I don't see the mechanics being effective.  Why rise to punch down when you are taller when you can just move forward?


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## drop bear (Jun 2, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> He is saying, just tip forward, and punch down.



Your hips would go backwards.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 2, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> From what you are describing the mechanics of what you are saying sound off.  I try to picture myself trying to hit a kid with your technique (because the height difference would be similar) but I don't see the mechanics being effective.  Why rise to punch down when you are taller when you can just move forward?


Go forward. Move ahead! Anyways, it is because that take-down opportunity, is not allowed, in the boxing ring.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 2, 2017)

drop bear said:


> I cant think of any strike that hits on the downward fall like that. Exept mabye an axe kick or something. Do you have a photo?
> 
> I mean an overhand will generally rely on a deep stance.
> 
> ...



The superman punch is the only punch that I can think of that's sounds rises and lean forward.


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## JR 137 (Jun 4, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> IMPORTANT!* IMPORTANT!* *IMPORTANT!*  This video is not a style vs style video or a "who fights better video"  This video is of a bunch of guys who got together to spar to learn.  This video is not a TRUE TEST of a complete fighting skill set that they may or may not possess.  What this video does show are students working on various techniques and strategies found within their system and or within their own assumptions of what they think they can do as an attack or defense, that may or may not be in line with the system that they train.  I respect everyone in the video and I think highly of their efforts to train and learn.  You'll hear people enjoy themselves, laugh, and encourage others. Please do not take these videos out of context.
> 
> Now on the discussion of the horse stance.  In the video you will see me (in the red shirt, red head gear) use various stance levels.  In order to understand how stances are important, you'll need to watch what happens when a person is in a high vs when a person is in a low stance.  As stated before none of the fighters are fighting with their full capabilities. I know for a fact that I was working on 2 techniques.  Low stance and a Jow Ga basic combination.  You will also see another guy just working on take downs as he does not throw any strikes.  You will also see student break contact when the command was giving.   *RULES OF THE SPARRING Rounds:*  No kicking.
> 
> In relation to stances, you'll see me fight in a low stance, move in a low stance, and drop into a low stance.  You will also see the effects of this.  This horse stance that I use here is to stand my ground.  It is not the highly mobile horse stance that I use to attack with.  I may have an example of that or at least the training of it.



Ive said it before - you've got very good wrestling instincts.  I'm constantly impressed, especially for a guy who I'm pretty sure you said you never wrestled before.  Your timing and mechanics to get into throwing positions and your timing and mechanics when avoiding being thrown/taken down are solid.

Looking at your low stance, do you get swept often?  It seems like you're susceptible to it, but being susceptible and actually getting swept a lot aren't one in the same.


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## jobo (Jun 4, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> The superman punch is the only punch that I can think of that's sounds rises and lean forward.


think of it more as a tennis serve, you rising on your toes bringing the arm over and then make ng contact with both the force os your forward momentum and the fall of your body weight

nb clearly you arm isn't at tennis levels of,extension, but its the same mechanic of generating significant energy


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 4, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Ive said it before - you've got very good wrestling instincts.  I'm constantly impressed, especially for a guy who I'm pretty sure you said you never wrestled before.  Your timing and mechanics to get into throwing positions and your timing and mechanics when avoiding being thrown/taken down are solid.
> 
> Looking at your low stance, do you get swept often?  It seems like you're susceptible to it, but being susceptible and actually getting swept a lot aren't one in the same.


Thanks

I've only been swept once in my life and that is from the other instructor that I had been training.  For the longest he had the hardest time getting the sweep and it didn't take much for me to avoid or counter it.  Then one day, the light bulb came on and he finally understood that technique.  I was in a high stance when it happened and the only thing I remember is feeling my root being moved and me laying on the ground.  I don't remember the actual fall.  It was a kind sweep so no injuries.  He's the only one.  I won't let it happen again now that I know he understands how to make the technique work lol.  

As for the low stance.  I have had people kick my lead leg in an effort to sweep me but it never resulted in me falling.  I'm fairly safe as long as I understand that weakness of being low.  A low sweep to that leg won't work.  I would see it a mile a way because of where the low stance positions my line of sight.  A kick would have a better chance of uprooting a low stance like that but it's not a safe bet. for the kicker.

There are 2 low horse stances that I use.  One is a regular side horse stance and the other is a modified horse stance.  The side horse stance is more vulnerable to kicks at to the lead leg.  However there are counters that can protect that lead leg.  One counter will give your opponent a bad bruise on his shin, the other counter is dangerous to the opponent as it my cause the opponent to hyper extend his knee.  Like always the dangerous one is the easiest one to do.  I think I may know of another counter but I haven't tested it yet.  Right now it's just a theory and it's not something that was taught to me.  It's just a theory based of my understanding

The only thing that I would warn about is not to make the horse stance too wide.  If that lead leg is too far in front, then it will be harder for you to defend that leg.  The rule that I go by is that I should be able to land strong punches to or redirect the hands of, anyone that decides to grab my ankle or shin while I'm in horse stance, without reaching.   If your foot is beyond your reach (without leaning) of a punch, then your horse stance is too wide.

The modified horse stance is not as vulnerable to the sweep or low leg kick.   The type of horse stance that I do depends on which set of techniques I want to use.  There are some techniques that work better in the side horse stance vs the modified horse stance.  Mobility issues also have to be considered as well.  Side horse stance moves causes one set of issues and modified horse stances cause other issues.  If I was going against a grappler then I would use the modified horse stance as it's better suited for the wrestling type impacts.  A side horse stance against a grappler is a losing battle for a kung fu practitioner.  You can transition through a side horse stance, just don't face off in one when dealing with someone trying to take you down.  The modified horse stance is the one shown in Post 69#


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 4, 2017)

jobo said:


> think of it more as a tennis serve, you rising on your toes bringing the arm over and then make ng contact with both the force os your forward momentum and the fall of your body weight
> 
> nb clearly you arm isn't at tennis levels of,extension, but its the same mechanic of generating significant energy


This is one that you have to show me because I still can't visualize it.  Jow Ga, Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut and Lama Pai have punches that sound like what you are explaining but there is no rising.  Everything takes time in fighting and rising as you are describing seems to add more time to a punch making it slower to use.  I know of sinking punches but those punches do not rise at the beginning, they sink.  You can see the type of punch here, where it has that "tennis serve" movement, but notice I don't rise with.





The only thing that I can think of being close to what you are saying is board breaking.  Where people rise and come down on the board.


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## jobo (Jun 4, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is one that you have to show me because I still can't visualize it.  Jow Ga, Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut and Lama Pai have punches that sound like what you are explaining but there is no rising.  Everything takes time in fighting and rising as you are describing seems to add more time to a punch making it slower to use.  I know of sinking punches but those punches do not rise at the beginning, they sink.  You can see the type of punch here, where it has that "tennis serve" movement, but notice I don't rise with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like this only with a punch on the end


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 4, 2017)

jobo said:


> Like this only with a punch on the end


Still can't picture it.  I've played tennis since I was 16 and I still can't that movement with a punch being at the end.  When I picture it, like that I think of movies that have that punch which makes it look more dramatic, but in terms of function it's not practical.  So you'll have get the actual punch on video for me to understand.


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## drop bear (Jun 4, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Thanks
> 
> I've only been swept once in my life and that is from the other instructor that I had been training.  For the longest he had the hardest time getting the sweep and it didn't take much for me to avoid or counter it.  Then one day, the light bulb came on and he finally understood that technique.  I was in a high stance when it happened and the only thing I remember is feeling my root being moved and me laying on the ground.  I don't remember the actual fall.  It was a kind sweep so no injuries.  He's the only one.  I won't let it happen again now that I know he understands how to make the technique work lol.
> 
> ...



Ankle pick. which relys on that low stance.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2017)

Punch Diving is powerful, but it takes too long to recover. Which is what this threat is about. Trust me.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 5, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Ankle pick. which relys on that low stance.


That ankle pick was really nice.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm learning to be "rooted" in my stance, which I train by getting into my basic, forward-facing stance. That's not to say I would ever strike that pose in a fight. The purpose of it is to have solid structure, so that when I hit someone, I'm not getting forced back by my own attack! Doh!


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 8, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I'm learning to be "rooted" in my stance, which I train by getting into my basic, forward-facing stance. That's not to say I would ever strike that pose in a fight. The purpose of it is to have solid structure, so that when I hit someone, I'm not getting forced back by my own attack! Doh!


I think Wing Chun practices a low stance in their long pole form.


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## wingchun100 (Jun 8, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> I think Wing Chun practices a low stance in their long pole form.



We do, but that is the only form with it.


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## jobo (Jun 8, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Punch Diving is powerful, but it takes too long to recover. Which is what this threat is about. Trust me.


it rather depends on of your punch lands or not, if not you use you forward momentum to drive a knee in to them


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 8, 2017)

jobo said:


> it rather depends on of your punch lands or not, if not you use you forward momentum to drive a knee in to them


That is the problem. If you miss, you are screwed.


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## jobo (Jun 8, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> That is the problem. If you miss, you are screwed.





Touch Of Death said:


> That is the problem. If you miss, you are screwed.


no if I miss with the punch I get them with a momentum enhance knee or elbow, you don't throw I techneque and stand there


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 8, 2017)

jobo said:


> no if I miss with the punch I get them with a momentum enhance knee or elbow, you don't throw I techneque and stand there


Oh, of course.


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## KabutoKouji (Jun 9, 2017)

I mainly do it with my arms out in front in 'Embrace Moon To Chest'/pong shape, as it makes it easier for me  - We did 5 minutes in class last week and 2 days after my legs could barely move :s - we did do 10 squats/up and down pumps in between each minute though.


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## Buka (Jun 10, 2017)

The only thing more fun than sweeping someone in a horse stance, is sweeping someone in a horse stance who isn't used to being swept.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 10, 2017)

Buka said:


> The only thing more fun than sweeping someone in a horse stance, is sweeping someone in a horse stance who isn't used to being swept.


The foot sweep is powerful because it's not only just foot sweep. It's shin bite, scoop, sticky lift, and sweep. It's 4 in 1.


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## Buka (Jun 10, 2017)

KFW, what's a "sticky lift"? I like that term.


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