# Sticky Legs!!



## Mystic Wolf (Jun 26, 2008)

How many of you all out there ever done chi sau with your legs?
:headbangin:

In our WC training we incorporate a thing called sticky legs.  We utilize our legs for sensitivity along with regular chi sau.  And we utilize it in our anti-grappling techniques on the ground.


----------



## CuongNhuka (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm pretty sure most lines start Chi Jerk at Bil Jee. I think they teach two drills, and then full on Chi Jerk (kinda like how there's two drills just before Chi Sao). I think some lines end up incorporating the two. But, I don't really know.


----------



## BlueVino (Jun 26, 2008)

Mystic Wolf said:


> How many of you all out there ever done chi sau with your legs?



Yup, we call it Chi Gurk.

Cheers,
    Trueblood


----------



## mook jong man (Jun 26, 2008)

We used to do it a little bit, ours was just basically two guys facing each other on one leg, each fighting to keep there leg on the centerline and take out each others kneecaps and groin usually the person with the better stance won. It was great fun as i recall and a lot harder than it looks.


----------



## KamonGuy2 (Jun 27, 2008)

We call it chi 'gerk' lol
Sticking legs is okay but to be honest in street figts, if you start to involve legs at that range, it switches your opponent on and he will start using his lower half. I much prefer to just use my top half to wrap up an opponent


----------



## CuongNhuka (Jun 27, 2008)

Kamon Guy said:


> We call it chi 'gerk' lol
> Sticking legs is okay but to be honest in street figts, if you start to involve legs at that range, it switches your opponent on and he will start using his lower half. I much prefer to just use my top half to wrap up an opponent


 
I think the intent behind Chi Gerk is more of learning to balance and root in wierd situations, and apply sweeps. Not so much kick in close range.


----------



## geezer (Jun 27, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> We used to do it a little bit, ours was just basically two guys facing each other on one leg, each fighting to keep there leg on the centerline and take out each others kneecaps and groin usually the person with the better stance won. It was great fun as i recall and a lot harder than it looks.



Although the concept of "sticky legs" or chi-gurk is widely accepted, the ways in which it is trained vary a lot. I heard one direct student of Grandmaster Yip Man state that the late grandmaster never taught a distinct drill for chi-gurk in the way that chi-sau drills were taught. Therefore, he claimed that all the major Sifus ended up devising their own methods and drills, but often falsely attributed them to Grandmaster Yip. If this is true it would account for the different approaches seen. At any rate, a _top level_ WC/WT man should be able to use his legs with the same skill as his hands. But with my bad ankles and knees, I'm working hard just to reach a _mediocre level._ Wish me luck!


----------



## Si-Je (Jun 27, 2008)

l


----------



## Mystic Wolf (Jun 27, 2008)

The idea behind chi gerk is to double the way you feel the opponent 
and where he's going, coupled with chi sau allows you to better 
re-direct your opponet and simoltaneously attack.
We are using chi gerk in our chi sau sensitivity training to feel our opponents movements where as if we used our eyes they would decieve us.
You use it on the ground to defend in the same manner.
But you utilize legs more.
You have to understand that chi sau and chi gerk are one and the same with developing sensitivity training.


----------



## brocklee (Jun 29, 2008)

If you're using your legs to be sticky, then how are you maintaining good structure?  And why would you use it to read your opponent when you should already have them collapsed and too close to be able to throw a kick?  I would like to see a demo of how this works because it sounds like it would confuse my sensitivity up top


----------



## Mystic Wolf (Jun 29, 2008)

Wing Chun is more than being sensitive with your hands, it's being sensitive with your body as a whole.  When your doing chi sau and your arms get trapped you counter with a shoulder bump, or head butt.  

Sticky legs begins when you step into your attacker your making contact with you legs in advanced stance.  That's when leg sensitivity begins, using yap gerk, and bong gerk which your attacker will put you into either one.  

For example, a person throws a jab and steps back, the sensitivity begins when your tan sau makes contact with the punching wrist.  As the attacker steps back you keep wrist contact and step into them with advanced stance making leg contact with the opponent.  This is where chi gerk begins.  
Having contact with your opponent at the wrist and the leg allows you to know exactly what his intentions for movement are before he acts.

Wing Chun is not ment to stay static, is was ment to evolve.  As long as we remain true to the principles of Wing Chun, it will always been Wing Chun.


----------



## brocklee (Jun 29, 2008)

Mystic Wolf said:


> Wing Chun is more than being sensitive with your hands, it's being sensitive with your body as a whole.  When your doing chi sau and your arms get trapped you counter with a shoulder bump, or head butt.
> 
> Sticky legs begins when you step into your attacker your making contact with you legs in advanced stance.  That's when leg sensitivity begins, using yap gerk, and bong gerk which your attacker will put you into either one.
> 
> ...



I see what you're saying about being stuck with the person, I just didn't know people did it with their legs also.  I think it would be like using chi sau during a fight though and wouldn't really be used.  Good training though


----------



## Si-Je (Jun 29, 2008)

eeeppp!

Chi Sau in a fight?  You'd never use chi sau in combat?
Combat IS chi sau.

Once you make contact with your opponent, your doing chi sau.  Like Mystic Wolf said, when you make contact be it tan sau or whatever, leg contact, body contact, you will utilize all your chi sau in seconds.  

People feel that because they learn chi sau in such a controlled setting that it is useless in a real fight.  But, I feel that its just like music.  Your learning your basic techniques, like notes in a scale.  But when it comes time to fight (or play music) you don't play a scale of notes, you play a song.  Same with chi sau, you use those "notes" to play your own solo based on the rythum, and tempo of your opponent.  
i.e. based upon the energy, force, and technique that they throw at you, you respond spontaneously.

Do this with the legs too, and your a bad mamma jamma!
This covers you for anything they may throw at you, so you don't have to plan an attack.  It just comes.


----------



## MA-Caver (Jun 29, 2008)

Mystic Wolf said:


> How many of you all out there ever done chi sau with your legs?
> :headbangin:
> 
> In our WC training we incorporate a thing called sticky legs.  We utilize our legs for sensitivity along with regular chi sau.  And we utilize it in our anti-grappling techniques on the ground.



I'd like to see a video of that!


----------



## brocklee (Jun 29, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> eeeppp!
> 
> Chi Sau in a fight?  You'd never use chi sau in combat?
> Combat IS chi sau.
> ...



Chi sau is just a sensitivity and timing drill, right?  You use WC in battle and chi sau to get a grasp on the feeling of corrosponding (sp?) a relationship with an opponent and finding how to take someone elses line.  In an actual fight, you're right about the song and music part but the notes aren't coming from chi sau, they come from chum kiu.

I may be incorrect because I tend to be alot lately


----------



## geezer (Jun 30, 2008)

Mystic Wolf said:


> Wing Chun is more than being sensitive with your hands, it's being sensitive with your body as a whole...



Sensitive with your body as a whole... Caver, can't think of a better way to describe a good grappler! Well said, Mystic.


----------



## KamonGuy2 (Jul 1, 2008)

geezer said:


> Although the concept of "sticky legs" or chi-gurk is widely accepted, the ways in which it is trained vary a lot. I heard one direct student of Grandmaster Yip Man state that the late grandmaster never taught a distinct drill for chi-gurk in the way that chi-sau drills were taught. Therefore, he claimed that all the major Sifus ended up devising their own methods and drills, but often falsely attributed them to Grandmaster Yip. If this is true it would account for the different approaches seen. At any rate, a _top level_ WC/WT man should be able to use his legs with the same skill as his hands. But with my bad ankles and knees, I'm working hard just to reach a _mediocre level._ Wish me luck!


You will never be able to use your legs as well as your hands
My teachers always make reference to the fact that on a daily basis you use your hands and arms to grab, type, pull, reach etc, whereas your legs are really only doing one type of motion (walking or running)
Therefore your hands will naturally be easier to train than your legs

I agree with your Yip statement though. Most of the drills for chi gerk vary and the ones that Yip Man supposedly taught have never been confirmed

The dummy helps improve movement and position around legs, but I have found that using chi gerk to absorb swing kicks/round kicks a very good form of training. 

Most chunners will never be able to 'hard' block a MT kick with their legs (unless they themsleves practice MT), but they can absorb it and control that persons leg


----------



## chisauking (Jul 1, 2008)

Your legs will NEVER be as versatile as your hands, and sticky legs will never be anything near to stick hands other by name.

Any one that can show me using chopsticks and eating noodles with their feet\toes, I will retract my statement and treat them to a slap-up meal.


----------



## Mystic Wolf (Jul 1, 2008)

Here's a small sample of Chi Gerk and Bong Gerk on the ground:





 
Just play with it at your school and ger the feeling of Chi Gerk on the ground, and your whole body should work as one.
See WT/WC at a whole new level, play with new ideas and concepts, while still remaining true to WC by helping it evolve.


----------



## Si-Je (Jul 1, 2008)

This is a cute video too, and he demonstrates application slowly for the kiddo's.





 
Pretty funny too.  Gotta like a guy with a bit of a sense of humor.


----------



## naneek (Jul 19, 2008)

chi sau king ever saw the movie "my left foot" that might change your mind about the possibility of using your legs as well as u can use your arms although the practicality of trying to do so and the time and devotion needed to do so is questionable


----------



## brocklee (Jul 20, 2008)

naneek said:


> chi sau king ever saw the movie "my left foot" that might change your mind about the possibility of using your legs as well as u can use your arms although the practicality of trying to do so and the time and devotion needed to do so is questionable



His foot was never as good as someone else's arms.


----------



## stickarts (Jul 20, 2008)

Mystic Wolf said:


> How many of you all out there ever done chi sau with your legs?
> :headbangin:
> 
> In our WC training we incorporate a thing called sticky legs. We utilize our legs for sensitivity along with regular chi sau. And we utilize it in our anti-grappling techniques on the ground.


 
Yes. Most people freeze when i first do it.   I never had a name for it.


----------



## naneek (Jul 20, 2008)

he could hold a fork with his toes and use it to eat, also he could paint and write using his left foot!! pretty amazing even if its not as good as someone elses arms in my opinion.


----------



## JustAVisitor (Jul 30, 2008)

I have practiced 'sticky legs' with the same perspective than Si-Je and Mystic Wolf, however nothing like the youtube videos. Maybe that it is just another training level... I have practiced all kinds of 'sticky legs' exercices: to improve blocking legs, to improve my balance, to feel the opponent balance, to move around the opponent, to find where it is safer to be, to understand how range is important.
I find that making contact to a leg gives away as much information about your opponent as making contact with an arm...


----------

