# Weird...



## GouRonin (Apr 14, 2002)

Did anyone else get this in their mail?

_Dear Kenpo-Ronin,
I would like to suggest that you consider adding:
Dr. Jerome Barber (escrima_kenpo@hotmail), who is based in Hamburg, New York (outside of Buffalo, NY)                      
Guro Bram Frank (arnisman@aol.com), who is based in Clearwater, Florida
as guest instructors to your future seminars and camps to teach the Gunting Knife technques that were developed by Guro Frank and are based on the teachings of your mentor, the late Professor Remy Presas.  I have had the unique opportunity to work with both men as well as Professor Presas.  They embody the very best of Professor's spirit and intent when it comes to innovation and "making it for yourself".  I am sure that you have heard Professor say that many times!  I certinly did over the five years that I went to seminars.   Dr. Barber, has a Lakan Tatlo rank from Professor Presas as well as 6th degree Black Belts in Pancipanci Eskrima and ISSD Kenpo.  He was awarded Senior Master status in 2001 at the Kenpo Gathering of Eagles. 
Dr. Barber, is the only person that I know of who has a college course curriculum document for Modern Arnis that Professor approved and signed  for presentation to a College Curriculum Committee.  That was done in 1989 at Erie Community College,   in Orchrad Park, NY.   He has been working with Guro Frank for the past 18 months and has a very clear, informative presentation with regard to the Gunting Knife and Training Drone.  Dr. Barber and his associates are presenting the Gunting, Drone and the new "Crimpt" (a blue handled bladeless tool, developed for LEOs) to police training academies and departments in NY State.  One of Dr. Barber's principal associates for the Gunting Training Program is a full-time police officer with NYS  Police Trainer Certification.
Guro Bram Frank, has developed and perfected the Gunting Knife and Training Drone, which are being produced by Spyderco, under their Martial Blade Craft Program.  He has also introduced his second taped series on how to use the Gunting for practical self defense purposes.  The Gunting is a uniques folding knife that can be used for impact, joint-locking and pain complience as well as having the absolute, one of a kind, ramp, to facilitate the kinetic opening feature.  This knife was designed to take advantage of the flow and ju-jitsu locking aspects of Professor's instructional motif during the last 5 - 7 years of his professional teaching life.  Guro Frank, has a Lakan Tatlo from Professor Presas and a Lakan Anim from Datu Shishir Innocalla, the first person promoted to that title by Professor.
Both of these men have the talent and skill to add an exciting new component to your presentations of the art of Modern Arnis.   You should seriously consider adding them to some of your camps and seminars as Special Guest Instructors.
Respectfully submitted,
Rex del Gitano_

I don't own a school nor do I put on Arnis seminars. The most I have ever done is been a whacking dummy for my friend who was introducing some guys to Arnis at a seminar. Remy Presas was never my mentor. I never even met the man. (Which is my loss) So I sent back an e-mail asking who he was and why he sent this to me and got this:

_I am Rex del Gitano and it was suggested to me that you **Might** be interested in hosting a Gunting Knife Seminar.  If you are you can contact one of the instructors listed in the message, if not ignore the the message and send me a request to remove your address from from the list, which I will be happy to do for you. Rex_

I'm not mad at all because this came to my hotmail account and that is what it is for, but which one of you guys dropped the dime on me? Ha ha ha!

Anyway, if anyone here wants to add these guys to their list of seminars or whatever, now you have their addresses and can contact them. Enjoy.


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## arnisador (Apr 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> From an e-mail sent by Rex del Gitano (which I did not receive):
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I understand this--does it mean that Mr. Innocalla was Prof. Presas' first Lakan Anim? And that Mr. Frank is a Lakan Anim in Modern Arnis, awarded not by the Professor but rather by Mr. Innocalla?


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## Roland (Apr 14, 2002)

...he was referring to the Datu title?!
Not really sure myself, I thought the letter was kinda funny, a bit too much about self promotion really.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 14, 2002)

Shishir Innocalla, was the first person promoted to Datu by Professor Presas.



> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *
> 
> I'm not sure I understand this--does it mean that Mr. Innocalla was Prof. Presas' first Lakan Anim? And that Mr. Frank is a Lakan Anim in Modern Arnis, awarded not by the Professor but rather by Mr. Innocalla? *


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## arnisador (Apr 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Roland _
> 
> *...he was referring to the Datu title?!*



I think you're right--I misread it. Thanks!


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## Red Blade (Apr 15, 2002)

*and a Lakan Anim from Datu Shishir Innocalla*

I thought that Datu Shishir was only a Lakan Anim.


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## dng1032 (Apr 16, 2002)

I too have received this message...i have no idea who this person is that sent it...

And my understanding regarding Mr. Frank's rank is as follows...

He was a 1st degree black belt in Modern Arnis under the professor. And it was stripped away due to circumstances that occurred between he and the professor.  So technically he has no MA rank under the Professor.

I believe he went to Shishir Inocalla separately to get rank under Shishir's system...at least that is what I had heard.

that's my two cents worth...


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## arnisador (Apr 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dng1032 _
> 
> *
> I believe he went to Shishir Inocalla separately to get rank under Shishir's system*



What system is this?


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## dng1032 (Apr 16, 2002)

Maybe I used the wrong terminology...

under shishir's authority, group,school,organization, whatever the best terminology is...that iswhat I meant...
sorry...

basically w/o Professor's authority...

and again i could be wrong but that's what i heard from one of Bram's associates...

I do believe shishir is a 6th degree maybe higher...

check out his website...i think it is www.arnisaction.com


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 16, 2002)

First of all I would like to state that I consider Bram a friend *BUT*, what my friends know the most about me is that the truth comes first!

At the 2002 Michigan summer camp there was a meeting about Bram's upcoming book on Modern Arnis. The meeting was between Remy, Kevin Black (Remy's attorney), Randi Shea, Terry Wareham ( the camp host) and myself (Tim Hartman). Remy didn't want Bram's new book and tapes going out under the Modern Arnis banner. He wished Bram's project well, but didn't want it associated with his art. 

During the conversation, Bram's rank was mentioned. The highest rank that Remy said Bram earned was a 2nd black. He also said that this rank was no longer valid seeing that Bram was not participating in the IMAF events. Afterwards I was told to run a black belt meeting about this very topic and was told to say that there maybe a book coming out on Modern Arnis, and if it wasn't put out by Remy, then it wasn't authorized.  After some prodding by the Black Belts during the meeting, wanting to know who this person was, we gave them Bram's name and discussed that he was no longer an active member of the IMAF.

This led into a discussion suggesting that there should be a list on the internet with the names of current instructors that people could work with.  The position that Remy and Randi thought best, was to say if people claim to be affiliated and active members, and you didn't see them participating at seminars and camps, then they weren't active.  I personally did not agree with this statement.  I felt that we needed to be more pro-active, and put a list of instructors on the net (which is what we do in the WMAA).
Remy thought it best to take the path of least resistance.  After this meeting, I relayed a message to Bram telling that Remy wished him luck on his books and videos, but did not want Modern Arnis' name being attached the these projects.

This is my knowledge on this topic.  I like Bram. I would love to work with him on projects in the future and as I told him in private e-mails - if he is ever in town, there is a spare room with his name on it. But the information above are the facts on this topic.  This is meant to clear up issues and not to start a war.  Hopefully this does not add to the already fractured Modern Arnis world.  

Respectfully yours,
Tim Hartman


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## Parker (May 1, 2002)

I was one fo the owners of the first five Escalators, the REKAT forerunner of the Gunting.  Neat knife, did not require a lot of thought and Bram and I laughed a bit about how every one of the first five manged to slice ourselves open, or ruin pants or any of the other stupid ways you can hurt yourself with a knife that auto-backcuts.  

I eventually sold it off, as the REKAT quality was, well, REKAT quality.  I hope they have improved it, as the mechanism was very promising.

I used to get all sorts of crap about all kinds of seminars for the entire gamut of "ker-ah-tee" and have come to the conclusion that I pretty much have all I want at home, with very rare exceptions.  I have no love of any art, per se, merely the incorporation of hard training into hard training.  In short, if it is not going to give me a more effective way of breaking someone, I am not sure I have any time for it.

The Gunting is a neato knife and maybe I wil get one some day, but as a pocket carry it lacks a bit, with the big horn on the blade.  I like it for the reminder it is, that all knives, but specifically all folding knives can be used in a whole buncha ways.  Unfortunately, legally speaking if I use a knife as a control lever, I may as well stab someone as it all comes to using a knife on someone.  The grevious injury may not occur with the escalator is I use it solely as a lever, but overall I am still using a knife.

Additionally, using a knife means I have resolved to use deadly force, or so the court would see it, I am then questioning why the half-use of deadly force when the situation has gone all the way bad?  

Just some musings on the topic.  Trying to consolidate my own philosophy on the use of a knife in self defense, legally and practically speaking.


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