# Healthy Eating and Living



## edhead2000 (Mar 12, 2004)

Ok, Dot and I are both trying to lose weight, which is not as easy as it seems.  We were discussing healthy eating and one of our biggest problems is eating out.  Not just at restaurants, but also at office/school functions.  Someone decides to bring in their "world-famous cheesecake" one day.......how do you decline or take a small piece without offending them?  What should you order when at a restaurant?  I know many have "healthy options" nowadays and those are a good start.  What are the "hidden" things we should look out for?  And my all time weakness: buffets.....all little bit of everything soon adds up to a lot.  I know the easy answer is "don't eat out", but there are some situations where avoiding restaurants isn't an answer.  We aren't looking to start any kind of diet or weight debate, just looking for some healthy food options.  Neither one of us is on a specific diet, but we're both trying not to consume excess carbs or fat.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## KenpoGirl (Mar 12, 2004)

I posted the following under the MT Slim down thread, which has kinda wained and disapeared. So I'll reprint it here. Shows you just how bad some of these fast food joints are.



> One tip for you and anyone who opts for fast food for convience sake is to go to all the fast food web sites and look at their nutritional guides. (They have to post them by law I believe) and see what you can and can not eat. Here are the biggies
> 
> McDonalds Menu Page
> 
> ...


Now a lot of restaurants have changed in recent months bringing in "Low Carb" items due to the popularity of the Atkins and South Beach diets. This is a good thing. You may have heard that McDonalds in no longer offering the larger order of Fries and Pop. I'm not sure if this is due to the new health trends or the fact that this past year they or like restaurants were sued because they were "Making" people fat by offering the larger size.

I think on of my main questions is if you do go out to eat, and I'm not just talking fast food I mean sit down restaurants as well. Which type do you think is healthiest. Which has the the better choices in regards to healthier eating. Italian vs Chinese, Mexican vs Italian etc.... I don't mean these specifically, just giving you and starting point. 

Lets see what we can come up with.

Dot


----------



## lifewise (Mar 12, 2004)

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> Ok, Dot and I are both trying to lose weight, which is not as easy as it seems.  We were discussing healthy eating and one of our biggest problems is eating out.  Not just at restaurants, but also at office/school functions.  Someone decides to bring in their "world-famous cheesecake" one day.......how do you decline or take a small piece without offending them?  What should you order when at a restaurant?  I know many have "healthy options" nowadays and those are a good start.  What are the "hidden" things we should look out for?  And my all time weakness: buffets.....all little bit of everything soon adds up to a lot.  I know the easy answer is "don't eat out", but there are some situations where avoiding restaurants isn't an answer.  We aren't looking to start any kind of diet or weight debate, just looking for some healthy food options.  Neither one of us is on a specific diet, but we're both trying not to consume excess carbs or fat.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



Please, DON'T deny yourself a small piece of that cheesecake. Unfortunately, eating is a very social event in our society. Ask for a small slice, perhaps you leave some on the plate, but do join in. The only way to loose weight safely is to develop a strong will, eat properly (The Food Pyramid, or Canada's Food Guide) and exercise regularly. 

Stay away from buffets. There are just too many reasons to list.  

Based on the content of your profile, you are a knowledgable person. You know diets don't work. I doubt anyone here is going to tell you anything you don't already know. It is a matter of choice.

 :asian:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 12, 2004)

EATING OUT: 
Other than the outright unhealthy choices out there, and the lack of control you have over what goes into the food, one of the tricky things is portion sizes. Many restaurants have disproportionately large portion sizes. 

What matters is what you do most of the time. When you eat out, tell them right out, you want a smaller portion, you don't want cheese on it, etc. A customer CAN choose what they consume when they're out there. 

Try writing down everything you eat throughout the day. Every day. Then looking it over with your partner. 

People know what healthy is. YOU do, anyway, since you're a drug dealer. Don't eat things out of a can. Eat fruit, vegetables, meat, fish, and nuts. Eat everything in a state as close as possible to when it was still alive. Add good spices, not salt and oil. 

lifewise is correct: buffets are absurd. 

*written while eating pasta and meatballs and a sausage sandwich*


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 12, 2004)

Well, I was at a retirement party at 10:45 this morning for 5 people. There were a total of 4 full sheet cakes of many variety to choose from. Jim had grabbed me by the hand and said celebrate my retirement and eat this cake. We both laughed and I had told him that I don't eat cakes or ice cream any more but thank you anyways. He knew I probably wouldn't eat it but regardless I was polite grabbed a couple of waters and had a good time. 
As far as eating out goes that's another problem all by itself. When I eat out at a restaurant my first objective is to get fish, chicken, or steak of some kind. Choose a vegetable and a potatoe. (I know potatoe is full of carbs but I'm not worried about carbs for me.) My opinion is to eat whole foods like that and nothing saturated with sugar or even a lot of salt. Both of which will store in the body. Sugar turning to fat plus salt retaining too much water. Always continue to drink plenty of water. If you fall off of the wagon  :uhyeah:  drink even more when you arrive home. The last pop I drank was on Feb. 26th. It's been nothing but water ever since. However every once in a while I will have one. Put some type of cardio in your daily activities besides your MA training. This should give you a start. 
Ask more questions if you'd like.  :asian:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 12, 2004)

jfarnsworth, 
Dude, have you taken nutrition? Complex carbs like starch (of which baked potatoes are almost exclusively composed) are nutritionally almost identical to simple sugars, because that's what they break down into through the body's amylases. Eating the inside of a baked potato (the skin contains vitamins) or a bowl of rice, is exactly the same as eating a bowl of candy. 

Water is a good point.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 12, 2004)

I eat the potatoes to gain carbs for my daily routine. I do not eat those every day however. At 5'7" and 153lbs. I'm personally not worried about carb intake as others are. I make no bones about being a dietician either. As much as I work out I usually don't eat enough food in a day to support my life style. :asian:


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 12, 2004)

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> Always continue to drink plenty of water.


My friends at school always make fun of me because I bring between 4-5 bottles of water with me to class each day.   I stopped drinking diet soda too.


----------



## Shodan (Mar 12, 2004)

A friend of mine who was very overweight lost a lot of weight by doing the following........I have also tried it and it helps- this is in regards to restaurants.  Order your meal and immediately, when it comes, ask for a to-go box.  Put half of everything into the box and only eat what is left on your plate.  For her, for me and probably for others, we are more apt to eat too much if we can see it........if it is sitting in front of us on a plate.  By putting half of it away, you are lowering your portion size and splitting your meal into two meals.  Like someone said......restaurants give us way too much in portions these days.

  My new dessert regimine is that I try to only have one dessert once per week- my day is Fridays cuz that is the day my hubby and I go out to eat once per week.  I try my best to stick to that one day per week dessert day........if there is a special event, that becomes my dessert day for the week- it doesn't mean I get two dessert days just cuz there was an occasion on a day other than Friday!!  It's hard sometimes cuz we have coffee hour after church with yummy cookies or someone brings in some other yummy treat.......but I've found that having a planned dessert day has made it easier on me to make my choice..........do I want this yummy dessert now, or do I want to wait for Friday and have something else.

  I want to get better on the water idea.......I drink way too many other things and not enough water.  

  :asian:  :karate:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 13, 2004)

I'm not saying that potatoes or carbs are bad for you. I myself take pasta and rice just like most people. I just find it amusing that you go out of your way to watch your sugar intake and don't give a thought to complex carbs, which your body pretty much instantly breaks down into sugar. Folks who give advice on these matters... should educate themselves first. Nuff sed.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 13, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Nuff sed.



Good enough :idunno:

BTW, My wife just handed me her college nutrition book.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 13, 2004)

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> My friends at school always make fun of me because I bring between 4-5 bottles of water with me to class each day



That is their problem. When we went to Heather's last work party I came in with 4 20oz. bottles of water. Everyone was staring at me but  :idunno:  I could care less. While they are drinking their fill of pop and s*** I will be there drinking my water. :uhyeah:  :asian:


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 13, 2004)

If anyone wants to read this short article it's alright but should have had more to it. Some might find it interesting.

http://www.flexonline.com/nutr/26


----------



## jkn75 (Mar 13, 2004)

OK, I am going to start with this: Carbs are good. Your body needs them. Does that mean overload on simple sugars? No. Does that mean have pasta, rice, (complex carbs) all the time? No. But lets please move away from the idea that these important facets of diet are unhealthy. 

As was said by everyone on the board moderation is the key. What has worked well for me is avoiding deep fried foods (yes that means everything : fries, donuts, chicken, etc). If you want them occasionally that's OK but occasionally is 1 or 2 times a week. Also cut down on red meat and pork, eat poultry or fish more often. Fruits, vegetables and nuts should be used as side items and snacks as much as possible. Next try to balance your sodium intake. Of course avoid putting salt on food should be avoided but look for hidden sodium. Stuff that is often labeled low fat will be really high in sodium. It is some times as much as double of the regular fat variety. Fat is OK but avoid saturated fat, so I will take a gram or two of mono or unsaturated fat as opposed to 500 mg of sodium. Finally try to have one completely vegetarian meal a week. This is actually very easy to do.

Next water intake is important. You should try to have the 8 glasses a day. If this is difficult, try to have 20 oz of water 3 times a day at about the same time everyday. That way your body will not retain water because it knows it's getting some later.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 13, 2004)

Very good points.  :asian: 

I drink at least a gallon + water everyday. Therefore I don't worry about sugar sitting and turning into fat. As far as snacks go a very excellent point. I try peanuts, almonds, a granola bar a day, a balance bar a day, cottage cheese, peanut butter w/crackers plus a few others.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 13, 2004)

That's some good snacking farnsworth. 

jkn, yes your body needs carbs. The high-protein people would say that you get all the carbs you need from veggies and fruit if you're eating enough. Something like rice or (the inside of) a potato is devoid of nutritional merit that they'd say you just don't eat it. Get your carbs from nutritionally-dense foods. 

Keep in mind people that I myself am not a high-protein guy. I'm way too conventional for that. I have no desire to put my body into a mild state of ketosis to burn a few pounds. Weight control has never been an issue for me. But on that, they kind of have a point. 

The caricature of the broccoli-fearing Atkins zealot is by and large a media fabrication. Folks on Atkins eat their greens. 

I'll agree on the deep-fried thing. Not only because of the fat content, which is considerable, but because the high temperatures involved in deep frying produce a carcinogenic byproduct called acrylamide. Probably one of the most unhealthy things that any of us eat. 

For those with little nutritional background, 
http://www.straightblastgym.com/diet.html#diet 

Helluva lot more useful than anything you'll find in flex magazine, etc. You're welcome.


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 13, 2004)

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> That is their problem. When we went to Heather's last work party I came in with 4 20oz. bottles of water. Everyone was staring at me but  :idunno:  I could care less. While they are drinking their fill of pop and s*** I will be there drinking my water. :uhyeah:  :asian:


 I never said I cared that they laugh at me!   I just tell them they should be drinking at least 64 oz of water a day!


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 13, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Folks on Atkins eat their greens.


It's true.  I did Atkin's once and ate more vegetables on that diet than I did regularly.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 13, 2004)

What did you think of Atkin's? 

BTW, your Eisenhower quote rocks. I noticed it before at www.costofwar.com


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 14, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> What did you think of Atkin's? [/url]



Although I'm just starting on my 649pg. nutrition book I don't think that they Atkin's thing is really the way to go. Maybe for a short term only, very short term at that. Don't you rob your body of proper nutrients and other things it really needs by cutting out a lot of foods.

REMEMBER! I'm just starting my 649 page college nutrition book. :asian:


----------



## KennethKu (Mar 14, 2004)

The most efficient way to do aerobic is to do it first thing in the morning. Your body has depleted considerable glycogen after a night of sleep. Hence you can get into fat burning mode faster. During the rest of the day your body has a glycogen reserve that takes about 30 minutes to deplete. Hence if you do aerobics in the evening, for example, you have to go beyond 30 minutes before you start burning fat. But that time, most heavysets would be tired and quit, lol. Hence they never got to burning fat. Worse yet, now they go back to refeed.


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 14, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> What did you think of Atkin's?


I tried it back in January for about 2 weeks and it made me sick.  I tried it again this past week and same thing.  I was talking to my pharmacist at work and he said that was typical as your body adjusts to not receiving as many carbs.  Well, needless to say, I stopped it again.  I can't stand being sick and I really have no time for it.  Last fall my doctor prescribed a low-carb diet including meat, fish, vegetables, fruit (excluding bananas and grapes), dairy products (including skim milk), and only whole grain, low sugar, high fiber cereal (I ate mainly cheerios, chex, shredded wheat, etc.).  It was a lot better than Atkin's but my weight loss wasn't as fast (which is a good thing, I'm just impatient).

I'm not saying that low carb diets are the best or anything.  However, I have a condition called polycystic ovarian syndrome.  I know a lot of people aren't familiar with this, so I'll just give a quick overview.  From the name you'd probably assume that it's just basically a gynecological condition, which is only about 3/4 right.  There's also a _huge_ endocrine/metabolic side that is often overlooked.  The main problem is that the pancreas in these individuals (including myself) is insulin resistance.  This occurs when the body doesn't respond properly to insulin and ends up producing too much insulin to overcompensate.  Insulin is used to mobilize glucose into the cells so the cells can use it as energy.  Since the body doesn't respond very effectively to insulin, this can also affect glucose metabolism leading to high plasma glucose levels.  The only way to get glucose is to ingest it (in the form of carbs).  Therefore, the more carbs I eat the more problems I have with glucose and insulin.  This is the rationale behind PCOS and low carbohydrate diets.  So, in this situation, low carb diets can really be helpful.  Let me know what your nutrition book says about low carb diets, JF!

So, that's the reason why I need to stay on a relatively low carb diet.  But I've found that my body needs more than 20 g.  So I'm planning on tweaking it a little to allow myself to have some more carbs.  




> BTW, your Eisenhower quote rocks. I noticed it before at www.costofwar.com


That website really makes you think about where the government's priorities are.


----------



## KenpoGirl (Mar 14, 2004)

KennethKu said:
			
		

> The most efficient way to do aerobic is to do it first thing in the morning. Your body has depleted considerable glycogen after a night of sleep. Hence you can get into fat burning mode faster. During the rest of the day your body has a glycogen reserve that takes about 30 minutes to deplete. Hence if you do aerobics in the evening, for example, you have to go beyond 30 minutes before you start burning fat. But that time, most heavysets would be tired and quit, lol. Hence they never got to burning fat. Worse yet, now they go back to refeed.


That's some very interesting information, lol sadly I'm not exactly a morning person.  It takes a lot for me to get out of bed any earlier then absolutely necessary before I get ready for work.  Bit of a zombie I am in the morning.

Luckily I do over an hour of aerobic workout when I go to the gym so I may not be getting as much a benifit but still some all the same.

Dot

P.S.  I'd like to thank everyone that has responded there is some very interesting information here.  :bow:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 14, 2004)

Kenneth Ku is correct as far as fat-burning goes. If your objective is not fat-burning, then you do your cardio after you have had a chance to put some calories in you. Say between 3PM and 9PM. But I had a friend who was trying to lose some weight. Early morning jogs did wonders. He gave the same reasoning.


----------



## KenpoGirl (Mar 14, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Kenneth Ku is correct as far as fat-burning goes. If your objective is not fat-burning, then you do your cardio after you have had a chance to put some calories in you. Say between 3PM and 9PM. But I had a friend who was trying to lose some weight. Early morning jogs did wonders. He gave the same reasoning.


Something to seriously think about and consider.  May not do the jogging thing, but if the benifits are that good.  Something else may be arranged.

Dot


----------



## OULobo (Mar 15, 2004)

Since we are on the subject of healthy eating ect.; I'd like to get a few opinions on questions I have. 

How does breakfast change things?
I drink a glass of OJ and a bottle of Coke every workday morning. I don't eat anything.

How can diets and exercise regimes be changed to help people who have rapidly adjusting metabolisms?
I've tried rigorous exercise routines, consistant exercise routines, extreme diets and gradual diets, but all of them only work for a short time. Everyone with a background in nutritian tells me it's because my metabolism adjusts to new situations faster than most people.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 15, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> How can diets and exercise regimes be changed to help people who have rapidly adjusting metabolisms?
> I've tried rigorous exercise routines, consistant exercise routines, extreme diets and gradual diets, but all of them only work for a short time. Everyone with a background in nutritian tells me it's because my metabolism adjusts to new situations faster than most people.




The only thing that I can offer (MY OPINION IS) maybe you need to try and trick your metabolism into working for you. (MY OPINION IS) You might need to change your diet, exercise, regimine, all of your training on a regular basis. This way your metabolism doesn't get a chance to adjust to the same 'ole same 'ole. :asian: 

Of course the above statement is my opinion and mine alone.


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 15, 2004)

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> The only thing that I can offer (MY OPINION IS) maybe you need to try and trick your metabolism into working for you. (MY OPINION IS) You might need to change your diet, exercise, regimine, all of your training on a regular basis. This way your metabolism doesn't get a chance to adjust to the same 'ole same 'ole. :asian:
> 
> Of course the above statement is my opinion and mine alone.


 I need to trick mine into speeding up......way up......how would I do that?


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Mar 15, 2004)

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> Ok, Dot and I are both trying to lose weight, which is not as easy as it seems...snip...Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



P.F. Chang's is an excellent chain, and growing around the country.  My wife and I ate there this weekend.  The food is superb.

They have a "training table" menu (in addition to the regular one), and this special item selection offers high carb or low carb/high protein fare...depending on what you're going for.

Meals are served with steamed rice and brown rice.  Really GOOD brown rice.  There is a selection of green teas for your anti-oxidants.  Eating healthy is a piece of cake at this place...WAIT...piece of cake...I forgot a pitfall at P.F. Chang's.  Note the following!

WARNING:  The desserts will kill you.  Perhaps literally.  I ordered chocolate cake, and they came out with this piece that was about a foot long...FIVE layers...the icing layered on an inch and a half think.  For you metrically oriented Europeans, think...well....huge.  It lay in a bed of strawberry juice with a scoop of fresh fruit.  I ate a fifth of it, and we took the rest home.

Skip the dessert and you're fine.

Most places we go to will make a lot of stuff "no oil" or little oil.  Ask.  The more expensive restaurants will work with you and they often make some excellent stuff that is in accordance with certain types of diets.

Eating healthy while eating out isn't all that hard provided you have will power.  It can be very tough to pass up those old favorites in the restaurant you've been frequenting for years.

Regards,


Steve


----------



## KennethKu (Mar 15, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> Since we are on the subject of healthy eating ect.; I'd like to get a few opinions on questions I have.
> 
> How does breakfast change things?
> I drink a glass of OJ and a bottle of Coke every workday morning. I don't eat anything.
> ...



Coke for breakfast?  LMAO.  You gotta be kidding me.

One should learn about "living healthy" with the same dedication one pursues MA. Instead of listening about bits and pieces from Joe, Moe and Curly over the net, it would be more productive to get a nutrition textbook and starts with the fundamental. 

It wasn't b/c your metabolism adjusting too fast, it was b/c your programs sucked. lol


----------



## KennethKu (Mar 16, 2004)

If you care about your health, don't eat at Chinese restaurants.  I have worked at Chinese restaurants before.  I wouldn't feed those @$%*& to rats. Hygene is an alien concept when it comes to Chinese restaurant cooking.  It isn't a racist thing. Rather it is a business ethic problem.  I know for a fact that the food is routinelytasted by the cooks/chefs, using utensils that are dipped right back into cooking or serving the food. Meat and veggie are NOT washed. Workers don't wash their hands. Food (cooked or raw) if  dropped onto the floor is picked up and NOT cleaned, let alone disposed.  Even customer leftover is routinely recovered and served to other customers.  

lol  So, there you go. Inside scoop on the food business. Eating healthy you say?  LOL.  RIGHTTTTTTT.


----------



## OULobo (Mar 16, 2004)

KennethKu said:
			
		

> Coke for breakfast?  LMAO.  You gotta be kidding me.
> 
> One should learn about "living healthy" with the same dedication one pursues MA. Instead of listening about bits and pieces from Joe, Moe and Curly over the net, it would be more productive to get a nutrition textbook and starts with the fundamental.
> 
> It wasn't b/c your metabolism adjusting too fast, it was b/c your programs sucked. lol



I was trying to illustrate a current habit that needs to be resolved not something that I suggest others do. The coke is for caffine, because I can't stand coffee and the question was for someone that is going to give me advice other than "your programs sucked", which just shows me that certain people miss the constructive part of constructive criticism. It also shows me who is not worth paying attention to when I ask for advise on this fora. You don't even know what my "programs" are. 

Consequently, nutrition books are good for toilet paper and that's about it. There is one written per month and all of them disaree, not to mention the suseptability to fads and skewed data. Just because it is in print doesn't mean it's true. Have you seen the crap that gets printed in this country. They never can agree on the positives of diet only the negatives. Soon every food will be labeled "unhealthy". The truth is I don't buy much into "programs" because they don't match all lifestyles or body types. I do adhere to concepts, which is what I am inquiring about. 

By the way which one are you Kenneth; Moe, Larry or Curly.


----------



## jkn75 (Mar 16, 2004)

> _originally posted by OULobo_
> Since we are on the subject of healthy eating ect.; I'd like to get a few opinions on questions I have.
> 
> How does breakfast change things?
> ...



To answer your question about breakfast: Yes it is important, very important. Look at it this way, what time at night do you eat your last meal and what time do you eat your meal the next day? If you eat at 9-10pm after MA practice and don't eat until Noon, that's a long time that your body needs to metabolize something. After you metabolize the food, you start to cannabalize yourself. 

Your metabolism slows down because the body has learned that it will not get food for a long time. So what do you need to eat for breakfast? That is up to you but here are my suggestions: healthy cereal, no marsmallows or chocolate, a spinach or broccoli omelette, a smoothie, and even carnation instant breakfast is better than a glass of OJ. If you absolutely need caffeine in the morning, try green tea. It's not as high in caffeine but it is high in anti-oxidants. A muuch healthier choice. 

With the problems you are having with your diets may be they are changing too much. A lot of crash diets, etc will tear up your metabolism fast. Lifestyle change is going to do more for you than any diet. 

If it is cost effective for you go see a nutrtionist or registered dietician. They can help you with some better suggestions for breakfast and all the other meals for the day.


----------



## OULobo (Mar 16, 2004)

jkn75 said:
			
		

> To answer your question about breakfast: Yes it is important, very important. Look at it this way, what time at night do you eat your last meal and what time do you eat your meal the next day? If you eat at 9-10pm after MA practice and don't eat until Noon, that's a long time that your body needs to metabolize something. After you metabolize the food, you start to cannabalize yourself.
> 
> Your metabolism slows down because the body has learned that it will not get food for a long time. So what do you need to eat for breakfast? That is up to you but here are my suggestions: healthy cereal, no marsmallows or chocolate, a spinach or broccoli omelette, a smoothie, and even carnation instant breakfast is better than a glass of OJ. If you absolutely need caffeine in the morning, try green tea. It's not as high in caffeine but it is high in anti-oxidants. A muuch healthier choice.
> 
> ...




Thanks jkn75 (and jfarnsworth). That's a little more like what I was looking for. Your answer leads me to another question. If I eat dinner at 6:00pm, then I go train, then I return and hit the sack, I don't eat again until noon the next day, aren't I burning fat reserve calories the whole morning when my colories from dinner (and morning OJ and Coke [only 150cal.]) burn out? I was told that the OJ was a good idea because the sugar burns fast, but activates my metabolism for the rest of the day; essentially ending the metablolic stasis of slumber and beginning the higher energy matabolic state of daily activity. The arguments I find are that the OJ isn't enough to kick in the daily burn and the lack of food will cause permenantly slow metabolism (sounds like what you are saying) and intense hunger (doesn't seem to hit me, so supports slow metabolism idea). 

Here comes a devil's advocate / rationalization question. What is the real unhealthyness of "empty calories"? I have again, been told that things like Coke are "bad" because they are "empty calories". This is because they hold an amount of colories that have no benefit in other nutritional areas, like vitamins, protein, antioxidents, ect. If this is true, then it really isn't that bad, because the amount of colories is low and as a simple sugar, burns of fast and first. If I drink a Coke in the morning I get the caffine (the real reason I drink it, besides the comfort level) and a low amount of calories, verses a "real" breakfast where I take in more of the other nutritional necessities, but a ton of extra calories. Fire away.


----------



## OUMoose (Mar 16, 2004)

> If it is cost effective for you go see a nutrtionist or registered dietician. They can help you with some better suggestions for breakfast and all the other meals for the day.



Anyone who knows me IRL knows that I'm no where near the model physique of health.  I do, however, have some info on this.

I've been trying to lose some weight gradually (with little success).  So, I had my doctor point me to a nutritionist.  He even gave me a recommendation (read: Prescription) for it.  So I went.  I must admit, these people have some racket.  /nod.  Don't get me wrong, the lady was very pleasant to talk to, but she told me nothing that I wouldn't hear in a high school health and nutrition class.  99% of the information she offered, IMO, was worthless.  To top if off, my insurance would not cover it (which was unexpected since it was a visit recommended by my physician).  

The 1% I did glean however, has been somewhat helpful.  Milk.  Milk IS good.  She gave me some statistics and breakdowns on the contents of milk, which is exceptionally healthy for it's caloric content.  She said skim is best, but 1% is ok (I couldn't choke down skim.. it's just nasty).  

1 20oz glass of 1% milk is:
~110 calories
90% of the Daily Calcium req
82% of the daily Riboflavin req
33% of the daily Potassium req
60% of the daily Phosphorous req
48% of the daily Protien req (lean)
30% of the daily Niacin req
30% of the daily Vitamin A req
75% of the daily Vitamin D req
39% of the daily Vitamin B-12 req
24% of the daily Magnesium req
36g of dietary carbs

and it's 90% water... 

Been trying to drink one good size glass before I leave for work, and one when i get home.  Not sure if it's helping or not, but it's not hurting.


----------



## someguy (Mar 16, 2004)

KennethKu said:
			
		

> If you care about your health, don't eat at Chinese restaurants.  I have worked at Chinese restaurants before.  I wouldn't feed those @$%*& to rats. Hygene is an alien concept when it comes to Chinese restaurant cooking.  It isn't a racist thing. Rather it is a business ethic problem.  I know for a fact that the food is routinelytasted by the cooks/chefs, using utensils that are dipped right back into cooking or serving the food. Meat and veggie are NOT washed. Workers don't wash their hands. Food (cooked or raw) if  dropped onto the floor is picked up and NOT cleaned, let alone disposed.  Even customer leftover is routinely recovered and served to other customers.
> 
> lol  So, there you go. Inside scoop on the food business. Eating healthy you say?  LOL.  RIGHTTTTTTT.


It depends on where you go.

As for eating healthy you should seriously try going vegitarian or at least sort of vegitarian.  I have lost a fair amount of weight lately and I eat in a manner that you Atkinson people would think is crazy.  Think about this.  Mashed potatoes and pasta and a fair amount of other high carb stuff.  I also eat dessert which I suppose I should cut back on abit but I'm lossing weight and not carring that much.  
Be warned though if anybody here decides to try being a vegitarian to loss weight or anything you have to be carefull about getting enough protein and stuff so you may want to look into it abit first.  of course I'm kind of not really expecting people to try this because well people love meat.


----------



## OULobo (Mar 16, 2004)

someguy said:
			
		

> of course I'm kind of not really expecting people to try this because well people love meat.



That's always been my problem with vegitarian diets.


----------



## someguy (Mar 16, 2004)

You got to give to get and I give up meat and weight but get plenty of good foods  better health and lots of dessert so I'd say dessert > meat any day.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 16, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> Thanks jkn75 (and jfarnsworth). That's a little more like what I was looking for. Your answer leads me to another question. If I eat dinner at 6:00pm, then I go train, then I return and hit the sack, I don't eat again until noon the next day



I'm starting to like the topic again  . I would like to share with you what I did today. Keep in mind this is just my daily activity and I found this to work for my needs.
Wake up at 4:20am. In the gym and lifting by 5:30 and done at about 6:50. Breakfast if at 7:10 usually consists of 2 or 3 eggs in a sandwhich. Today I had roughly 10-12oz. of cottage cheese and peaches & always with a protein drink. Snack at 9am. 1 banana and a granola bar. By 9 I will have consumed at least 40 oz. of water. 11 am. it's back to the gym for round 2. 11:45 I'm done and lunch is immediately after or ASAP. Today it was rice and a chicken breast plus water. Snack at round 2. 1 balance bar plus whatever I have in my desk drawer (usually some type of chex mix). Around 5:30 is dinner. Tonight was spaghetti w/ground chuck a salad and a protein drink. Before going to bed I'll eat something else maybe peanut butter crackers, peanuts & almonds, cottage cheese. This just happens to be my typical day. I have seen results in lowering my BF% plus gaining muscle mass. Again, I must say this is my routine that I've found works for me; not found in a mag. or book just trial and error with a lot of sweat. :asian:


----------



## edhead2000 (Mar 16, 2004)

I'm not trying to be stupid or silly or anything, I just have some real questions.  

One: Where is the gym?  Do you have to drive back and forth from home and work?
Two: When do you shower?  When I go to the gym I leave looking like I've just been dunked in a swimming pool.  There's no way I would go anyway except the shower afterward.....that's been the biggest problem in trying to schedule time at the gym (scheduling it at a time when I can get back home and take a shower).
Three:  What time do you go to sleep?


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 16, 2004)

edhead2000 said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to be stupid or silly or anything, I just have some real questions.
> One: Where is the gym?  Do you have to drive back and forth from home and work?


It's upstairs at where I work.   



> Two: When do you shower?


 :boing2:  In all seriousness (if that's a real word) I very rarely ever break a sweat so I shower at night at home. Even during some of the hardest weight lifting work outs I have  :idunno:  I barely sweat - honest.



> Three: What time do you go to sleep?


Between 8:30 - 9. When I hit the pillow I'm done in less than a minute. Monday nights at the kenpo studio are a killer. 

 %-}


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 16, 2004)

KennethKu said:
			
		

> Coke for breakfast?  LMAO.  You gotta be kidding me.
> 
> One should learn about "living healthy" with the same dedication one pursues MA. Instead of listening about bits and pieces from Joe, Moe and Curly over the net, it would be more productive to get a nutrition textbook and starts with the fundamental.


I don't know this Kenneth Ku guy, but I like him already. He has caught the CORRECT. 

Pop is one of the greatest health risks facing Americans today. Empty calories for one thing, and the phosphates which leach calcium from your bones. I have heard that in the American South, grocery stores use generic pop as loss leaders, and people drink it all day. If this is true, it is more horrific than most scenarios that public health researchers could dream up. 

A good standard undergrad nutrition textbook based on sound research, with APA citations from scholarly journals, is a fantastic basis for starting to understand nutrition. They are not "flavours of the month"; they are not toilet paper. 

It will not tell you everything you need to know, or even what to do, but at least you will start to understand the compositions of foods, what the substances do, etc. Calories, ifferent kinds of fatty acids, water vs. fat-soluble vitamins, glycemic index, types of fibre... it's not rocket science but if you don't ever learn it... well, you just won't know it. If certain people would take the time to educate themselves on the basics from that, then some of the stupid things that are said on this thread would not have been said. And perhaps we could maybe even have a somewhat intelligent conversation. Imagine that.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 16, 2004)

someguy, to my knowledge no one here is an "Atkinson" guy or an Atkins guy for that matter.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 16, 2004)

Breakfast is a good thing. Any intro-level NUFS textbook will very plainly explain that whatever you eat in the morning, you have all day to catabolize. To eat more of your calories earlier in the day is a wise thing to do. Hence the saying, "breakfast like a king, dine like a pauper."


----------



## someguy (Mar 17, 2004)

Oops well you know what I mean though.  I'm supprised that no one here is on the Atkin's diet.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 17, 2004)

Sorry, I meant that no one who was in the conversation... shall we say, "admitted to" being on Atkins.


----------



## someguy (Mar 18, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Breakfast is a good thing. Any intro-level NUFS textbook will very plainly explain that whatever you eat in the morning, you have all day to catabolize. To eat more of your calories earlier in the day is a wise thing to do. Hence the saying, "breakfast like a king, dine like a pauper."


I probably should do that.  If only mornings were not...


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 18, 2004)

I have a hard time getting up a good appetite in the morning and eating lots. I usually try for a bagel with peanut butter, 250 mL flavoured yogourt, an "omega" egg, and a banana. What I drink varies. 

Not very Atkinsy.


----------



## OUMoose (Mar 19, 2004)

What is an "Omega" egg??   :idunno:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 19, 2004)

One of the coolest food innovations of our time: 

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/Abinvents/inventors/jeongsim_biography.htm
http://www.gov.on.ca/omafra/english/livestock/poultry/facts/incr_egg.htm
http://www.blonnet.com/businessline/2000/09/18/stories/071831b1.htm
http://www.ualberta.ca/~jssim/profile.html

All natural, no transgenic technology involved. Dr. Sim also developed high-protein food bars for UNICEF relief work. He is a brilliant food scientist, great humanitarian, and committed Christian. And lucky for me, he was also my intro Nutrition and Food Science instructor.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 19, 2004)

As a nobody asking a question; is your omega egg the same as our organic egg? :idunno:


----------



## OULobo (Mar 19, 2004)

So they alter the nutrition in the egg by regulating the breed of the chicken and the diet of the chicken?


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 19, 2004)

OULobo is correct. 

jfarnsworth, well, I have no idea about what your organic egg involves, but, um... no. It's a proprietary technology. I know flax seed goes into the feed, but I don't know the exact formula. 

There are other omega-3 eggs on the market. But if you look at the composition of the yolk, none (that I've seen) has quite as good of fatty acid ratios as Dr. Sim's. Still, I sometimes buy 'em if the market's out of Dr. Sim's. Egg protein is very complete, very digestible, and very cheap. 

If you eat regular eggs all that much, discard at least part of the yolk. The cholesterol in them is killer.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 19, 2004)

Someone said something about "North Americans" being overweight. Now I do realize that the trend is for obesity to be more of a problem in Canada than before. However, I did notice that the further south you go, the fatter are the people you see on the street. I even go down to Calgary, and notice that folks are just a little plumper. Down in Lethbridge, the average fattitude is higher yet. And I cross the border, well I see an increase in the fat gradient. 

I haven't travelled around a lot, but you know the stats on obesity in the southern states... 

Does anyone know why this is? I mean, they used to say that people in northern climes are more robust, and folks near the equator are more gracile, because it's a body temperature management issue. This seems true in Eurasia, but the reverse is true in North America! 

Here's what I think: 
EVOLUTIONARY THEORY OF BODY MORPHOLOGY CLINES
In places other than NA, body types are adapted mainly to one selection pressure: body temperature management. Gracile people have more body surface per mass, and so they stay cooler easier. (Think of early dinosaurs like the dimetrodon. They had big "sails" of vascularized tissue, with lots of surface and little mass, to cool themselves. Likewise, a thinner person has more exposed body surface per mass.) The reverse is true for husky folks in the north: they conserve heat better. 

However, North America is extremely prosperous both economically and in terms of resource base. We manage body temperature through direct manipulation of our environment. Powerful central heating systems and nourishing foods in the north, ubiquitous and overpowering air conditioning, and abundant cooling beverages in the south. Most of us (at least urban folk) spend a lot of our time indoors anyway. So modern technology has effectively wiped out the body temperature variable as a selection pressure. This variable does NOT affect body morphology among humans in North America. 

In its absence, a different selection pressure comes to the fore. The centrifugal force of the earth is greatest near the equator, and least near the poles, because the surface of the earth near the equator is farther from the axis of rotation. My theory is that North Americans living nearer the equator are fatter because, being more massive (that is, having a greater gravity coefficient), this makes them less likely to be flung into space by the earth's rotation. Thinner North American humans near the equator are more likely to be flung into space, and less likely to produce offspring. As you go further north within North America, the degree to which this affects population selection decreases. 

Though the same phenomenon holds true outside of North America, being flung into space is a relatively rare phenomenon (compared to heat exhaustion and hypothermia), so this global effect is overshadowed by the body temperature management issue. Only in North America can its effect on populations be clearly seen. 

I respectfully submit this thesis for MT's consideration. :asian:


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 19, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> jfarnsworth, well, I have no idea about what your organic egg involves, but, um... no.



The organic eggs in which I purchase are from organic fed chickens. No steroids or other extra behind the scenes altering effects for the chickens. At the moment I finished the last dozen off a couple days ago so I threw out the container. If my memory is right the typical egg has a very high 200mg content of cholesterol. In the organic (depending on vendor) they are in the high 100 or very low 200mg of cholesterol. Comparing the side charts item per item they are better for your body than a regular egg. However I like the brown organic eggs from Eby-Brown and they tend to cost #3.59 per dozen. Your typical egg dozen cost about 89cents. With 3 kids in the house and me we tend to go through a lot of eggs.  :asian:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 20, 2004)

I need to clarify something, because omega-type eggs are often referred to as "low cholesterol" eggs, which is technically incorrect. 

The term cholesterol is synonymous with zoosterol, and simply means lipids (fats or oils) which occur naturally in animal matter. Your blood cholesterol is the lipids that naturally occur in your blood. Now, the yolk of an egg is almost entirely fatty matter, so unless the yolk changes significantly in size, the amount of cholesterol is pretty constant. 

So it's not how much cholesterol, but what kind. You've heard the expressions "good and bad cholesterol"? The good ones that are plentiful in fish (and omega eggs) and the bad ones that are in most meat fat we eat. What matters to human health is the shape of the fatty-acid part of the molecule. There's omega-3, omega-6, omega 9, I'm sure there are others. Is it a carbon ring or something? I don't remember the details. It was a long time ago. You can post it for OUR benefit when you read that part in the text. But the point is, that's what makes some oils good (fish, canola, olive) and some bad (say, lard and tropical oils). Then there's saturation. Polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, and saturated (which are generally solid in form and quite bad, like lard). 

The method of getting lots of omega 3 and good stuff in the eggs, naturally, is a fairly new innovation, and protected by patents (though other companies also have methods of doing it, which are also patent-protected I believe). These "designer" "omega-3", or "engineered" eggs are always identified as such. They cost a bit more than other eggs here, I suppose it depends on where you live. 

I'm all for buying organic, and buying direct from farmers. It's cheaper, they probably don't sit on the shelf as long, etc. But the composition of the cholesterol would most likely be the same as a conventional supermarket egg. I'm starting to buy my meat from a holistic grower (not considered organic, because they get vaccinations, but close enough for me, since they're free range and free of steroids). They treat the cattle like pets, love 'em, feed 'em good, give em lots of wide open space, then, without warning, they put a bullet in their head when they come of age. Much tastier and more tender because they treated 'em right. I think it's wonderful, that's the way farming should be. Healthier? I don't know. They must be--those artificial hormones, as well as the endogenous stress hormones that the cattle release when they're slaughtered conventionally, are supposedly bad for you. 

I read somewhere (non-scholarly source) that brown eggs are no healthier than white eggs, but I can't really back that up, scientifically. Many people prefer them, though.


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 20, 2004)

Ultimately, the point of good and bad cholesterol is mostly how they increases or decreases HDL (high density lipoprotein--GOOD endogenous human cholesterol) and LDL (low density lipoprotein--BAD endogenous human cholesterol). You've seen the cartoons I'm sure. LDL stick in arterial walls and make you have heart attacks and die. HDL clears 'em out. 

Also, please know that I hate you for making me stay up and write all that. Now I sleep, you *******.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 20, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> Also, please know that I hate you for making me stay up and write all that. Now I sleep, you *******.




Whatever!  :jedi1: 

I was actually enjoying reading your post for a change on here and the knowledge you have on the subject. Your last statement is just one of the reasons that my friends here on MT rarely see me on here anymore. 

I thought this was going to be a good discussion on something that most of us would learn from but..... :idunno:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 20, 2004)

Just joshin' ya man. Obviously you didn't put a gun to my head to make me type it in last night.

Geez man, take a joke.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Mar 20, 2004)

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> Whatever!  :jedi1:
> 
> I was actually enjoying reading your post for a change on here and the knowledge you have on the subject. Your last statement is just one of the reasons that my friends here on MT rarely see me on here anymore.
> 
> I thought this was going to be a good discussion on something that most of us would learn from but..... :idunno:





I took it as a joke.  You thought he was serious?


Regards,


Steve


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 20, 2004)

It was a joke. Please come back. I don't hate you.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 20, 2004)

I'm here. I just had to do some vaccuuming the house and just pledged all of the wood. 

I'm glad to hear that it was a joke.  :asian:


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 21, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> It was a joke. Please come back. I don't hate you.



I'm going to have a few more questions for you when I get back home tonight. I need to go out for a few hrs. but will have questions about the eggs I purchased today. Just don't have enough time to post at the moment. :asian:


----------



## Black Bear (Mar 21, 2004)

I'm no eggspurt. I just took this one course years ago.


----------



## OULobo (Mar 22, 2004)

Black Bear said:
			
		

> I'm no eggspurt. I just took this one course years ago.



Wow, that was bad.


----------

