# Large settlement against gun manufacturers and retailers



## Thesemindz (Sep 13, 2004)

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131830,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5948566/

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/09/sniper.families.lawsuit.ap/index.html

All three articles are essentially the same. Notice how the lawyer for the Brady Center managed to tie in the "assault weapon" angle. 

I'm strongly opposed to any kind of settlement in this area, as it creates a precedent that the manufacturer is responsible for the private use of the item, whether it's guns or oreo cookies. Unfortunately, the gun seller in this case seems to have had, at best, some shady dealings, and that makes all the parties vulnerable to litigation. None the less, a bad shake all around. Notice that they're also suing the snipers, but don't expect that aspect of the case to even reach resolution, much less judgement.


-Rob


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## KenpoTex (Sep 14, 2004)

This is a very disturbing development.  I'm not even going to get into the whole liability issue and the need for tort reform other than to say that with such a precedent don't be suprised to see Ford or Chevy get sued the next time someone gets killed by a drunk driver.  It's Bull****.

As far as the impact in the gun world.  Sad to say, I think Bushmaster just signed their own death warrant.  Obviously they have chosen to forget about what happened to S&W after that company put political expediency above the interests of their consumers.  I don't expect Bushmaster to be doing too good in the future due to the drop in sales that is almost assured.

Here's a link to a discussion on this issue on another forum that I'm a member of, just in case anybody's interested.


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## Tgace (Sep 14, 2004)

Its a dangerous precident to set for any industry.


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## TonyM. (Sep 14, 2004)

Lawyers as well as plaintiffs should go to prison for frivolous lawsuits. Those people are really ill and have no clue what law and the constitution really means. Makes me embarrassed to be an American.


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## Flatlander (Sep 14, 2004)

> The civil lawsuit alleged that at least 238 guns, including the snipers' rifle, disappeared from the gun shop in the three years before the shooting rampage. Despite audits by the *Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms* (search) showing that Bull's Eye had dozens of missing guns, Bushmaster continued to use the shop as a dealer and provided it with as many guns as the owners wanted, the lawsuit alleged.


If Bushmaster is responsible for the actions of the retailers dealing it's guns, then yeah, this is warranted.  Bull's Eye is absolutely responsible for enabling the shooter, as their theft prevention methods were obviously lacking.  But I really don't think that's Bushmaster's problem.... they should fire their lawyer - I think that if they chose this course on his advice, they made a big mistake.  They could have beaten this.  IMO


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## Liam_G (Sep 14, 2004)

If someone steals a hatchet from Ace hardware and goes on a killing spree with it, I somehow doubt you're going to see a lawsuit against Stanley Tool Company and Ace Hardware ... these things make me sick. 

And yes, it sets a huge precedent.  We're probably going to see a whole new set of frivolous class-action suits now, and it will cost the manufacturers a ton of money.  Guess what that means?  Higher prices to legal purchasers, like you and me, who wish to defend themselves, and no change for thieves and crooks who steal and / or purchase cheap black-market guns.  Makes so much sense, huh?  :disgust:

Respectfully, and sorry about the rant ...
Liam


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## Thesemindz (Sep 14, 2004)

Maybe I just lack faith in humanity, but I think that sometime after the two hundredth firearm, "mysteriously disappears," I have to doubt that the problem lies in their, "theft prevention policies." Something tells me that Mr. Bulls Eye thought he could make more shwag selling firearms off the books, and since no one did anything about it he kept doing it. Of course, I have no evidence of this and could be way off base. 

This is another example of the government refusing to enforce the existing laws, and their failure leading directly to actions which jeapordize not only the victims of the crime, but also the rights of all Americans. If the gun shop broke the law, he should be nailed for the law he broke, not held responsible for the actions of others. The government needs to be held responsible for letting this get so far out of hand.


-Rob


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## Liam_G (Sep 14, 2004)

Thesemindz said:
			
		

> Something tells me that Mr. Bulls Eye thought he could make more shwag selling firearms off the books, and since no one did anything about it he kept doing it. Of course, I have no evidence of this and could be way off base.



I personally know the former owner of Bullseye, and I just do not believe that he was doing this.  I know him as a good and honest man.  We've never talked of the details of the case or anything ... this is simply my personal opinion.  I don't know all of the staff who were working there at the time, but I just can't bring myself to believe that the owner was involved in this way.

This is very much my own humble opinion, it's not based on any sort of 'inside information' (I don't have any), and it's all I'll contribute on this front ... also, this is definitely not intended as a flame to you, Rob, and I hope my calm tone comes through as I type ...   

Very Respectfully,
Liam


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## Thesemindz (Sep 14, 2004)

Liam_G said:
			
		

> I personally know the former owner of Bullseye, and I just do not believe that he was doing this.  I know him as a good and honest man.  We've never talked of the details of the case or anything ... this is simply my personal opinion.  I don't know all of the staff who were working there at the time, but I just can't bring myself to believe that the owner was involved in this way.
> 
> This is very much my own humble opinion, it's not based on any sort of 'inside information' (I don't have any), and it's all I'll contribute on this front ... also, this is definitely not intended as a flame to you, Rob, and I hope my calm tone comes through as I type ...
> 
> ...




Hey, that's totally fair and I'm willing to except that. You seem to have some personal knowledge of the owner which I am not privy too. I will openly state that I have NO intimate information on this case. None the less, some 238 guns turn up "missing?" That seems fishy at least, and perhaps, he should have dealt with this problem personally. 

All I'm saying is that if someone steals ONE thing from me, I'm looking into it. If someone steals HUNDREDS of things from me over the course of YEARS then it seems that I'm NOT looking into it. But like I said, I don't know.


-Rob


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## Seig (Sep 14, 2004)

That does it, I am suing Fabreware!


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## Liam_G (Sep 23, 2004)

If anyone is interested, there will be a radio show with the former owner of Bullseye this Saturday morning, 9/25/04: http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=12538

This is Datu Worden's "On the Edge" weekly radio show from Tacoma, WA.  If you're outside the area, you can listen to previous shows on his website, http://www.kellyworden.com .  The shows are put on the website soon after they air on the radio, so you should be able to find this one sometime early next week.

Respectfully,
Liam

p.s. there are a lot of great shows archived on Datu Worden's website ... worth a listen or three ...


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