# If you left the US ...



## shesulsa (Jul 19, 2007)

... where would you live instead?

New Zealand's been posted twice - are there particular reasons for NZ specifically?  Other than Hobbits, I mean. 

_Note:  This thread inspired by another thread posted by Bob Hubbard._


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

http://newzealand.govt.nz/

- English is dominant language
- Weather is nice
- Politics don't seem as screwed up


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## terryl965 (Jul 19, 2007)

For me it would be Australia or Korea again both have certain aspect that I would enjoy.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 19, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> http://newzealand.govt.nz/
> 
> - English is dominant language
> - Weather is nice
> - Politics don't seem as screwed up


 
Nailed it.  New Zealand is pretty open for US citizens to ex-pat.  Not all countries are.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

Now, if I can just win the lotto so I can get a passport and all the fees covered.....


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 19, 2007)

New Zealand is beautiful.

I wonder what will happen when one day people wake up and realize that there is a revolution going on, or will everyone just lie down and say it was a good run and just like all the empires in the past, our time has come and gone?


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm betting on that second one.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 19, 2007)

Hows the economy there? 

I'm thinking maybe Ireland?


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## shesulsa (Jul 19, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> Hows the economy there?
> 
> I'm thinking maybe Ireland?


A revolution is already underway there ... see how successful it is against a world superpower?

Not that I wouldn't like to visit, but ... heh heh ... good luck with that.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 19, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> A revolution is already underway there ... see how successful it is against a world superpower?
> 
> Not that I wouldn't like to visit, but ... heh heh ... good luck with that.


Well lass I'd be just returning to me roots s'all.  Besoides, ah thank ah g'ot a purty gud aksent n'all.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 19, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> A revolution is already underway there ... see how successful it is against a world superpower?
> 
> Not that I wouldn't like to visit, but ... heh heh ... good luck with that.


 

A nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to die there.


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## stickarts (Jul 19, 2007)

I visited Spain a few times when I was a kid and I loved it. I would like to live there for awhile.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 19, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> For me it would be Australia or Korea again both have certain aspect that I would enjoy.


 
Terryl...I think you would like Korea. The country is beautiful out here. I'm here right now and love the country side. The only downside here is that they do not take care of there housing. Some places people take a lil bit better care, but a majority of them are run down. But like I said, the country side is beautiful. As for the people, it just depends on where you are at. If you stay close to a military base, the people tend to be not as nice, but I think some of it is b/c of how military "kids" act when out in public. I say kids referring to adults since there are no military kids here in Korea. But training with a Korean Master is a lot of fun too. Mine has been trainging in Tang Soo Do for over 40yrs.

Tang Soo!


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## Drac (Jul 19, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> http://newzealand.govt.nz/
> 
> - English is dominant language
> - Weather is nice
> - Politics don't seem as screwed up


 
Ditto.


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## elder999 (Jul 19, 2007)

I posted this elsewhere, five years ago-it still applies (though I have to say that I have property and keep a boat in Mexico, so it could happen...)

Recently, I talked with a young guy who was bummed out because his girlfriend had left him. Carl and his girlfriend, Betty, lived together, but they had an open relationship (which means they could have sex with other partners). Carl requested an open relationship because Betty was not as attractive as the women he was accustomed to dating. Carl was unwilling to fully commit to Betty, and, as often happens, she found someone else-someone who was willing to fully commit. Im sure that nobody would blame Betty for leaving-except maybe for Harvey. I can imagine Carl and Betty at dinner. I can imagine Carl checking out the other women at the restaurant, looking for a more attractive partner. Carl was also bummed out because George BuSh was re-elected. Consequently, Carl is thinking of leaving the United States.

Before he goes, Id like to introduce him to his next girlfriend, Ginger. I met Ginger the day after I talked to Carl, and I think theyd be a terrific couple. Ginger is also thinking of leaving the country, but she doesnt want to move anywhere; she just wants the Blue States to divorce the Red states. Ginger cant sleep at night while her country is bombing people-though, as Ive railed about before, she had no problem when it was Clinton bombing people instead of BuSh. Like many others, Ginger thinks the united States Is so divided that we should simply become two different countries. There are problems with Gingers plan. For example, if America did get divorces, Im fairly sure the Red States would want custody of all the bombs. Maybe Ginger would sleep better if she wasnt politically connected to George BuSh, but I dont think the people getting bombed would sleep any better. Also, about 144 years ago, quite a few of the Red States tried to divorce the Blue States, and it turned out pretty badly.

I have friends whove been talking about moving to New Zealand for months, fearing BuShs re-election. Also, for several weeks, Ive been getting-mails praising the virtues of Canada, where my wife and I have a few friends and relatives, who cant understand whats happening south of their border. America must feel a lot like Betty right now, with so many citizens checking out other countries, looking for a more attractive companion. I think there arte about 50 million Republicans and 50 million Democrats in this country, The rest of us are swing voters. Swing voters, just like Betty, are looking for someone willing to commit. While Im sure that John Kerry is committed to America, Im beginning to believe that many Democrats are not. Is it possible some voters were turned off by all the Democrats whove been talking about how much they like Canada? Since the election, Ive heard Democrats complain that America has left them, but maybe its the other way around. Democrats have been looking around the restaurant for months, checking out other countries, getting ready to bail if things get rocky.

I though it was interesting that Ginger wanted to divorce the United States. Unfortunately, America has gotten very comfortable with divorce. Many Americans, when they hear the word divorce, imagine an oppressed woman from an Ibsen play, struggling to live a full life in the face of overwhelming cultural oppression. For these people, divorce represents our ability to transcend the restraints of religion and tradition. For other Americans- those who embrace tradition and religion, for example-divorce represents selfishness, and the inability to transcend personal happiness for the good of the family.

Sadly, most Republicans are thrilled to hear Democrats talk about leaving the country. Theyd love to have the place to themselves, to fix up America just the way they like it. Even those Republicans who value family and tradition would happily divorce those sniveling liberals who think that an Arab life has the same value as a good American. Maybe we could get a no-fault divorce do the whole thing without any lawyers-I know that would make the Republicans happy!

Im reminded of Zachary Taylor, who said that he would personally lead the army against any state that tried to leave the Union, and he would instantly hang any rebels he could get his hands on. That reflects my feeling on this subject: any American (Republican or Democrat) who thinks hed be better off without 50 million of his fellow Americans is a damned scoundrel, and he should get a whipping personally administered by Abraham Lincoln.

So, lets stop all this talk about divorce. Lets try to appreciate our boyfriends, girlfriends, and our husbands and wives, and our *country*.

and stop looking at Canada that way. It isnt polite and, besides, she doesnt look that good when you get up close.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 19, 2007)

Oh yeah, I would have to say that I would want to be in either Australia, Germany, or Ireland if I were to leave the US for good. And judging from the way you guys are talking about New Zealand, I wouldn't mind going there either.


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## brianlkennedy (Jul 19, 2007)

I did leave the United States. It was 15 years ago and I have not stepped on American soil since. I moved to Taiwan. Reason being, if a person is interested in traditional Chinese culture (be it traditional religions, martial arts, calligraphy, architecture or whatever)---Taiwan is the place to be.

  Plus the people are great. Both of my wives have been Taiwanese (uh, of course at different times; multiple wives was made illegal in the 1970s if I remember right; my first Taiwanese wife I met, married and divorced back in California.).

  Taiwan is of course not utopia, but it is a lot better than mainland China; which admittedly may not be saying much.

  The R.O.C. rocks. (R.O.C.=Republic of China=Free China!).

  One of my prosecutor friends here, who is a Buddhist, has a theory I may have been a Taiwanese in my immediately former life and my return to Taiwan  is a return to the place I lived in my last life. I actually sometimes feel he maybe right. 

  Yours in former lives,
  Brian


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## bushidomartialarts (Jul 19, 2007)

Here's the trouble with leaving...

US Hegemony is reality.  US Empire is imminent.

How much would leaving really help?  To answer the question, either NZ or some pacific island.  The solution to my above problem is finding some unimportant backwater someplace where the tides of history will be felt as only a ripple.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 19, 2007)

elder999 said:


> I posted this elsewhere, five years ago-it still applies (though I have to say that I have property and keep a boat in Mexico, so it could happen...)
> 
> Recently, I talked with a young guy who was bummed out because his girlfriend had left him. Carl and his girlfriend, Betty, lived together, but they had an open relationship (which means they could have sex with other partners). Carl requested an open relationship because Betty was not as attractive as the women he was accustomed to dating. Carl was unwilling to fully commit to Betty, and, as often happens, she found someone else-someone who was willing to fully commit. Im sure that nobody would blame Betty for leaving-except maybe for Harvey. I can imagine Carl and Betty at dinner. I can imagine Carl checking out the other women at the restaurant, looking for a more attractive partner. Carl was also bummed out because George BuSh was re-elected. Consequently, Carl is thinking of leaving the United States.
> 
> ...




We will meet and have a beer and talk about how to have a revolution. Those in power like to have emotional issues to keep people divided and not concerned with larger issues. I believe in the U.S. Constitution. I support it. I really do hate to see it abused. If I had a a seat on the U.S. Supreme Court, I would call them out. I know people believe that someone has to get a court case presented to them and then they get to decide if they will officially review it. But I think they should be able to just use common sense and look at the U.S. Constitution and state that is not valid. Sorry it must go away now. The issue was balance of powers. All three branches were and are there to stop abuse by the the others. The problem is that it reactionary and not actionary. 

But then again I will go back to supporting and believing in my country, but support or believe in the individuals who think they are running it the best way possible.


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## MBuzzy (Jul 19, 2007)

I would live in Montreux, Switzerland with NO PROBLEM.  That has been my favorite city in the world!!! 

Plus, you're guaranteed a shot at the Jazz festival every year.


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## crushing (Jul 19, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> I would live in Montreux, Switzerland with NO PROBLEM. That has been my favorite city in the world!!!
> 
> Plus, you're guaranteed a shot at the Jazz festival every year.


 
Switzerland sounds good to me too.  In a town that's on one of the crystal clear mountain sees.  I had the opportunity to travel through Switzerland and the place is beautiful.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 19, 2007)

crushing said:


> Switzerland sounds good to me too.  In a town that's on one of the crystal clear mountain sees.  I had the opportunity to travel through Switzerland and the place is beautiful.



Not too far from some of the world's deepest caves too... :uhyeah:


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## Makalakumu (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, it just so happens that my wife and I are planning to move to New Zealand.  We have the paperwork filed and we are verifiably needed over there.  If any of you have any questions on the emmigration process, please PM me and I can help you.

As it stands now, it looks like we will be spending 2-3 more years in this country taking care of some loose financial ends, although we are in a good enough place with money and paperwork that we would be able to buy plane tickets tomorrow, move, and start a new life.  

I don't know if I can compress enough bile into one sentance in order to describe the reasons that I would choose to move to a different country and leave all of the family I love so dearly behind, so I won't even try.  On top of this, there are enough people in THIS country who just don't want to hear the stuff that is really happening (like the above).  You can PM me about this if you want too.

All I can say as a general comment is that you need to start planning if you are really serious about this.  Emmigration is a big deal and almost all of the countries that people posted above have very strict laws.  For example, it will take you at least 18 months and thousands of from start to finish in order to complete all of the NZ emmigration requirements.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 19, 2007)

My problem is, self employed people don't seem to top the list of 'wanted'.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 20, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> My problem is, self employed people don't seem to top the list of 'wanted'.


 
Bob, if you really are interested, there are avenues that you could pursue that would cater to what you do.  IT is a hugely needed profession in NZ and so is anyone who is willing to start or move a company.  I can recommend some *books* if you are interested.  And yes I said books, because like I said, emmigrating ain't easy.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 20, 2007)

Shoot me some info if you would, no hurry. 
I can't currently afford my passport fee, much less the initial visit, lol!


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## Senjojutsu (Jul 20, 2007)

elder999 said:


> So, lets stop all this talk about divorce. Lets try to appreciate our boyfriends, girlfriends, and our husbands and wives, and our *country*.
> 
> and stop looking at Canada that way. It isnt polite and, besides, she doesnt look that good when you get up close.


Emotionally I am with you Aaron. It reminded me of this recent story about taxes in Norway:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece 

That said, I was thinking of looking into that Irish descendant passport scam - not to flee - but it would allow me to find work within the EU, until that system collapses.

However since some here have begun the emigrant process, please if anyone on this thread can answer this. 

That Congress passed a law during the past decade? 
Whereas the US government can still enforce/obliges you to pay federal income taxes for up to ten years after you have left the USA?
:angry:

True or an urban legend?


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## bydand (Jul 20, 2007)

Cannot see myself getting upset enough to actually move away from the US forever, but if I had to choose a county to move to it would have to be Vanuatu.  Small Island in the South Pacific where there is a portion of the island where your wealth is determined by how much you give away and a type of pig is considered wealth.  A plus is that English is spoken over most of the Island so there would be a period where you could still converse while learning the national language.  I have wanted to go there for years to visit.  I like the idea of warm water, warm temperatures, NO snow, friendly people and diving, swimming, fishing, and *beaches*.


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## Jdokan (Jul 20, 2007)

IF...*NEVER*...despite all the hoopla of bad press of what the country is coming to...'til the day I die...then God willing my plans are straight up...


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## Kreth (Jul 20, 2007)

MBuzzy said:


> I would live in Montreux, Switzerland with NO PROBLEM. That has been my favorite city in the world!!!
> 
> Plus, you're guaranteed a shot at the Jazz festival every year.


Plus, they have that rolling truck stones thing just outside...



:uhyeah:


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## HKphooey (Jul 20, 2007)

Why would I....

Grass will always seem greener on the other side.  I am pretty happy with my life here in the US.


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## Odin (Jul 20, 2007)

No one want to move to England.....we have...erm interesting weather over here. ( :


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## shesulsa (Jul 20, 2007)

Odin said:


> No one want to move to England.....we have...erm interesting weather over here. ( :


I live your weather here in the Pacific Northwest ... and I like the idea of being able to defend myself of my own volition and not having Big Brother remind me from a loudspeaker on a street corner to wipe my child's nose.

Good on ya for tolerating, I suppose. :asian:

Seems to me, on this Fifth Ammendment thingy, that we conquered this kind of crap before, did we not?  I can't imagine a civil uprising being successful, tho.

I also noticed that no one mentioned any South American countries ... any suggestions as to why?


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## Odin (Jul 20, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> I live your weather here in the Pacific Northwest ... and I like the idea of being able to defend myself of my own volition and not having Big Brother remind me from a loudspeaker on a street corner to wipe my child's nose.
> 
> Good on ya for tolerating, I suppose. :asian:
> 
> ...


 
LOL!!! I think you have been watching too much T.V!

loudspeakers?

My veiw on the whole police CCTV thing is that you shouldnt really be worried about it as long as your not doing anything you shouldnt be.


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## HKphooey (Jul 20, 2007)

Odin said:


> No one want to move to England.....we have...erm interesting weather over here. ( :


 
You do have some good ales, though.


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## shesulsa (Jul 20, 2007)

Odin said:


> My veiw on the whole police CCTV thing is that you shouldnt really be worried about it as long as your not doing anything you shouldnt be.



With all due respect, that's how rights are lost.


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## Odin (Jul 20, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> With all due respect, that's how rights are lost.


 
Maybe.

Another time another thread me thinks. ( :


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## Makalakumu (Jul 20, 2007)

Senjojutsu said:


> That Congress passed a law during the past decade?
> Whereas the US government can still enforce/obliges you to pay federal income taxes for up to ten years after you have left the USA?


 
Not true.  The US government has reciprocity agreements with lots of different governments which basically state that if you live there, you pay their taxes and NOT taxes to the US government.  And when you become a citizen of another country, the US has not power to force anyone to pay their taxes.  To do so would be an egregious breach of sovereignty and would open the door for countries to do likewise on the US.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 20, 2007)

Odin said:


> No one want to move to England.....we have...erm interesting weather over here. ( :


I'd love to go to the UK.  But I don't like $10 a gallon gas prices, and a tax for every tv and monitor I own. (I've got 11 screens....that gets pricey, lol)

The plus is, DALEKS!


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## Odin (Jul 20, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'd love to go to the UK. But I don't like $10 a gallon gas prices, and a tax for every tv and monitor I own. (I've got 11 screens....that gets pricey, lol)
> 
> The plus is, DALEKS!


 
lol yeah Taxes suck over here.

Season 3 of Doctor who has just finished over here....very cool.


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## Andrew Green (Jul 20, 2007)

CCTV stuff I think would creep me out a little too much...  But given the choice of UK or US, well, we'd have to hit a pub together when I got there


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## elder999 (Jul 21, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> We will meet and have a beer and talk about how to have a revolution.


 
The time for that is passed, I'm afraid-the only revolution now lies in complete independence: get off-grid, grow your own food, have a well for water, raise some livestock, stock up on medical supplies, non-perishable food, keep your head down and your mouth shut.....
...oh, and stock up on one more thing:*bullets*.


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## Drac (Jul 21, 2007)

Odin said:


> lol yeah Taxes suck over here.
> 
> Season 3 of Doctor who has just finished over here....very cool.


 
(off topic post) Just got hooked on it over here, very cool indeed)..(end off topic post)....


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## Makalakumu (Jul 21, 2007)

Since there is so much interest in New Zealand here, I've decided to share the step by step flow chart that I made in order to organize the process for our family.  Remember, this chart is designed for teachers, so that adds some extra steps.  If you are not a teacher, that may or may not simplify things.  Overall, it should give everybody a good idea about what you need to do in order to emmigrate.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 21, 2007)

elder999 said:


> The time for that is passed, I'm afraid-the only revolution now lies in complete independence: get off-grid, grow your own food, have a well for water, raise some livestock, stock up on medical supplies, non-perishable food, keep your head down and your mouth shut.....
> ...oh, and stock up on one more thing:*bullets*.




Hmmm,  No Debt other than house and car. I have city Water, but a working Well as well. No Live stock , but, know those who have this near by who are friends. Food in the house , check. 

Keeping Mouth Shut. Hmmm, You had to go and bring that one up now. I am not sure I can do that. I know I do not go out and throw pies at people or burn flags and carry signs with a slogan at events, but I do express myself from time to time. 

Bullets, hmmm while I think this is a good idea in general just because I do not want to go shopping before I have to shoot. I think the missiles that are laser guided or a simple M1A2 Tank could easily put a stop to just about anything I could do.  

My comment was that if people get together and talk about the issues, and not in a religious manner of I am right and you are wrong because of a party name, but to look at an issue over a beer (* Like some other people in history *) they might just be able to change something, or if they are lucky maybe change a mind or two.

From Metallica: "If my mind becomes closed, please pry it open."


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## elder999 (Jul 21, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> I think the missiles that are laser guided or a simple M1A2 Tank could easily put a stop to just about anything I could do.


 
One can always go to the hardware store, if one knows what to purchase.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 21, 2007)

elder999 said:


> One can always go to the hardware store, if one knows what to purchase.



While I understand the knowing what to purchase.  A miss spent youth thinking Chemical engineering and money I could make is what I wanted.   Lots of stuff to make it hard to lock on and also to make it difficult. But having worked with the M1A2, the stuff required to generate the EM pulse or to mechanically stop them in their "tracks" would get a reaction of evacuation and an area response.   

PS: Building a Nuclear deivce from plans in the Library (* minus fissionable materail of course *) does get peoples attention.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2007)

Guys, lets focus on the where to move "willingly" from the US here, k?

I for one want to avoid that involuntary move to Cuba or beatmewithapipestan.

danke!


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## Mei Hua (Jul 21, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> ... where would you live instead?



The UK.

My fiancée and soon to be child are there.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 21, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Guys, lets focus on the where to move "willingly" from the US here, k?
> 
> I for one want to avoid that involuntary move to Cuba or beatmewithapipestan.
> 
> danke!



Western Europe, Canada, and Austrailia and New Zealand all have nice options in economy and health care and level of technology.  They also have their drawbacks in language or laws for weapons and other things that some here in the states take for granted, which has lead to this discussion. 

I am not sure where I would live. I could live in most places for a few years but for the rest of my life, I am not so sure.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2007)

Anyplace I go has to allow a few things.
- Swords, as I do sword based arts, and collect them.  This rules out Australia.
- Photographers freedom. They seem permit happy there to shoot anything, and some of the rules are quite different than the US. http://www.4020.net/words/photorights.php

I'd look at Canada, but would prefer someplace that sees minimal to no snow. I kinda hate it, lol! An inability to speak Spanish rules out much of the warmer regions in NA.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2007)

Of course....the idea of a few years on the road seems interesting too...spend 6 months here, 4 months there, do alot of traveling and photography.  As long as I have internet access I can run my business's (just limit payments to online credit cards, invoice via email, and handle all support online)

Hmm......


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## elder999 (Jul 21, 2007)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Guys, lets focus on the where to move "willingly" from the US here, k?
> 
> I for one want to avoid that involuntary move to Cuba or beatmewithapipestan.
> 
> danke!


 

Well, like I said, I already have an immediate fall back in Mexico-and the boat can go anywhere in the world, really. I also like Costa Rica and Nicaraugua-as in _like_, as in nice places to visit, or maybe retire....New Zealand is attractive, but I'm thinking the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Without_a_Country][/FONT]
[URL="http://[FONT=Arial"]_Man Without A Country_ [/url]scenario would be more attractive to me:[/font]



> _For your country, boy," and the words rattled in his throat, "and for that flag,"__and he pointed to the ship, "never dream a dream but of serving her as she bids you, though the service carry you through a __thousand hells.__ No matter what happens to you, no matter who flatters you or abuses you, never look at another flag, never let a night pass but you pray God __to bless that flag. __n remember __boy, that behind all these men..., behind officers and government, and people even, there is the Country Herself, your Country, and that you belong to her as you belong to your own mother. Stand by her, boy, as you would stand by your mother...!" _


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 21, 2007)

Interesting idea. 



For those limited to English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language


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## Senjojutsu (Jul 22, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Not true. The US government has reciprocity agreements with lots of different governments which basically state that if you live there, you pay their taxes and NOT taxes to the US government. And when you become a citizen of another country, the US has not power to force anyone to pay their taxes. To do so would be an egregious breach of sovereignty and would open the door for countries to do likewise on the US.


Your answer had such common sense logic within it I knew it had to be incorrect. Since tax laws and common sense are like oil and water. 

So I did some more research and it appears our government had some class envy issues with rich Americans possibly renouncing their citizenship, or should it be considered just affluent Americans now. The issue is with recent changes to IRS Code Sec 877, and yes *UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU* for Ten Years After!

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97245,00.html

http://www.hayduklaw.com/weekly.htm


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## Makalakumu (Jul 22, 2007)

> Amended IRC 877 eliminates the tax avoidance criteria for imposition of the expatriation tax on certain types of income for 10 years following expatriation, and creates objective criteria to impose the tax on individuals with an average income tax liability of $127,000 for tax year 2005 (or higher amount for later years) for the 5 prior years or a net worth of $2,000,000 on the date of expatriation.


 
At the most, this doesn't apply to me and it won't by the time I leave.  At the very least, this is complete ********.

I've never came across this before and, in fact, when I talked to NZ emmigration services, there was absolutely no mention of it.  So, here's what I'm trying to figure out, how can the US enforce this?  Why would another country let an affluent member of their populace be taxed twice when that income could be put into their economy?

I've met several people online who were pretty wealthy and they said nothing about this when I asked them about taxes.  Anyways, thanks for the curveball man...

I'm going to ask some more questions...


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## elder999 (Jul 22, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> At the most, this doesn't apply to me and it won't by the time I leave. At the very least, this is complete ********.
> 
> I've never came across this before and, in fact, when I talked to NZ emmigration services, there was absolutely no mention of it. So, here's what I'm trying to figure out, how can the US enforce this? Why would another country let an affluent member of their populace be taxed twice when that income could be put into their economy?
> 
> I've met several people online who were pretty wealthy and they said nothing about this when I asked them about taxes. Anyways, thanks for the curveball man...


 
And, in fact, if you're a "not so affluent" American, the first $80,000 you make overseas don't get taxed....just talk to an accountant and make sure you get filed correctly. I imagine that as a teacher you'll be making less than that, so none of it should apply-the amendment is basically a way of nailing some of the increased expatriate income of the last six years or so- $127,000 just happens to equate with the lowest tier of "contract security" personnel overseas.....


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 22, 2007)

Well I am not leaving the good old US anytime soon.  We have a cool motto in "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave."   However places I would love to live in if I had a choice and could either afford it or the political climate would allow it.  One would be Japan, another would be Indonesia, after that I might go to one of the many Island nations out there.  Even though I do not like the heat all the time, if I could afford it I would be at the beach alot!


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2007)

I think when people say oh I want to live in whatever country it is, they don't always realise that it matters very much where in that country you go?
A friend of mine spent six months in NZ, loved it but there are some rough places there that he wouldn't want to live in.
It's the same as the UK, there are some really bad places that the Brits would love to get out of but theres also, and it's the majority of places, that are brilliant. CCTV is in the cities and frankly it does need to be but there are some totally wonderful places and don't forget that the UK is made up of other countries, Scotland, Wales, N Ireland, Isle of Man, Cornwall and the Channel Islands. Many counties such as Lancashire and Yorkshire regard themselves as being almost countries! 
I lived in Germany (at RAF Laarbruch, nr the Dutch border) for three years and travelled all over Europe which was fun but apart from The Netherlands and the South of France which I still visit I don't think I'd live in any of the countries. Italy was fun though, I liked their attitude to life there.I like the slower Mediterrean pace of life. I suspect that the laid back  "she'll be right, mate" attitude of the Kiwis is a big attraction for many of New Zealand, I know it would be for me.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jul 22, 2007)

I'd go to England, find a cottage in the countryside, smuggle in some aluminium foil to thwart the detector vans, and sit by the fire and watch my wide screen, with all the Brit-coms my brain can stomach, drinking a real beer while beating my manservant regularly.  I'd probably be called The Yank by the natives whenever I drop by the local pub for a pint. I want one of those quaint 3 wheeled cars as well.


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2007)

LOL at Edmond! You only pay one fee yearly for TV licensing, covers however many sets you have. The money goes to the BBC! All the other channels have advertising which pays for their programmes.


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## Drac (Jul 22, 2007)

Edmund BlackAdder said:


> I want one of those quaint 3 wheeled cars as well.


 
Ahhhh, the Isetta..Had a ride in one as a child LOVED IT..http://www.isettatech.com/


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, if it supports the arts. 
I'd heard it was a per-screen fee though my information is quite out of date. What does that cost annually?


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## Drac (Jul 22, 2007)

England for me..I'll find some old cemetary to haunt or an old castle..


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2007)

I wouldn't mind visiting the UK, doing some serious photo work while there. Dunno if I'd want to live there though...I'm trying to move away from snow, lol!


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2007)

License costs about $200 a year. Satellite tv you pay for from Sky but it's up to you whether you want it or not.
We certainly have plenty of old castles aand graveyards here! This one is two minutes down the road from me.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/conProperty.376


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 22, 2007)

Must get passport....must book boat ride....castles are calling!


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2007)

I live just outside here! Very photogenic place!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_North_Yorkshire

Richard lll's  castle is just up the road too as well as the castle that Mary Queen of Scots was imprisoned in.


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## Drac (Jul 22, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> Richard lll's castle is just up the road too as well as the castle that Mary Queen of Scots was imprisoned in.


 
Maybe they have a crypt for rent...


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## Karatedrifter7 (Jul 23, 2007)

I'd go to Italy. its comfortable there I'm also not deterred by learning a foreign language, I like doing that.  Denmark as well would be on my list.
I could care less about this "Proud to be an American" stuff its overdone
were all one global community. I'm a bachelor, so Denmark and Italy look pretty good to me, for the reason of ragazzas i.e females! However, would be a problem that I can't take my dog with me.
Ciao..


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 28, 2007)

Drac said:


> England for me..I'll find some old cemetary to haunt or an old castle..


Hahaha...You would do that!


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## Blotan Hunka (Jul 28, 2007)

I am "proud to be an American". All the "leavers" are faithless quitters who I wouldnt trust to stand by me in a crunch. When the going gets tough the quitters abandon ship I guess.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 28, 2007)

_&#8220;Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.&#8221;_ - Jesus Christ in his sermon on the mount.

Look, if that is how you feel, fine, but at least take heed.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 28, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> I am "proud to be an American". All the "leavers" are faithless quitters who I wouldnt trust to stand by me in a crunch. When the going gets tough the quitters abandon ship I guess.


I think a search here, and elsewhere will show the extent of my love of the US, and the desire I have for its improvement.  But, since the options are a-fruitlessly fight against an entrenched enemy, death or capture, then illegal torture or b-peacefully relocate, I think I'll take b.

option b allows the system to correct itself with the option to return later.

Plus would let me in my case, get lots of good photoss I otherwise wouldn't.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 28, 2007)

Places I've considered living: (is reason against move)
- New Zealand
- Australia (sword Ban)
- Japan (language)
- Egypt (laws/language)

Places I've considered visiting for extended periods:
- England
- Ireland
- Scotland
- China
- Bahamas
- Caribbean
- Italy
- Greece
- France (Normandy Beach area)


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## Makalakumu (Aug 2, 2007)

I'm leaving for NZ in about 10 minutes.  I just wanted to let everyone know and that I'll try and give a good report to those who are looking at NZ as a possible spot to emmigrate.


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## shesulsa (Aug 2, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I'm leaving for NZ in about 10 minutes.  I just wanted to let everyone know and that I'll try and give a good report to those who are looking at NZ as a possible spot to emmigrate.


Does this have anything to do with the bridge?


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## agemechanic03 (Aug 2, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Does this have anything to do with the bridge?


 
Hahaha...he already had the paperwork done and sent in waaaaaay before the bridge....that is funny tho!


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## Flying Crane (Aug 2, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I'm leaving for NZ in about 10 minutes. I just wanted to let everyone know and that I'll try and give a good report to those who are looking at NZ as a possible spot to emmigrate.


 
Can't wait to hear about it when you get back!


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## Makalakumu (Aug 3, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Does this have anything to do with the bridge?


 
That was just bad timing.  My sense of adventure is sometimes prescient however.

Right now, I'm sitting in an internet cafe in downtown Auckland.  My wife is taking a little nap to combat jet lag.  Thus far, I've noticed that this city has a HUGE asian influence.  There's a sushi bar on every corner and a wealth of martial arts schools and clubs.  WAY WAY WAY more then I've ever seen packed into a small area before.

And that HAS to be a good thing.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2007)

I thought your move was going to happen later.  Are you just visiting now, intending to move later, or are you actually making your move?


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## Makalakumu (Aug 3, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> I thought your move was going to happen later. Are you just visiting now, intending to move later, or are you actually making your move?


 
Oh no, FC, we are just visiting now.  This is our scouting mission to see if this really is for us.  We'll make one more if we decided to go when we are looking to make connections for jobs.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Oh no, FC, we are just visiting now. This is our scouting mission to see if this really is for us. We'll make one more if we decided to go when we are looking to make connections for jobs.


 
ah, that's what I had assumed, suddenly wondered if I was mistaken.

Our scouting mission will probably take place in February or so.


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## Mei Hua (Aug 7, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Does this have anything to do with the bridge?



Superior and Minneapolis aren't exactly all that close


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## Makalakumu (Aug 8, 2007)

Mei Hua said:


> Superior and Minneapolis aren't exactly all that close


 
I haven't lived in Superior my whole life... 

My days as a Sconie are numbered anyway...


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## meth18au (Aug 9, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Western Europe, Canada, and Austrailia and New Zealand all have nice options in economy and health care and level of technology.  They also have their drawbacks in language or laws for weapons and other things that some here in the states take for granted, which has lead to this discussion.




It's not so bad having tight gun laws over here.  It just means that you're more likely to get stabbed in a street fight, rather than shot!!! he he.  No, but really, it's not that bad.  And martial artists are able to have weapons for training purposes.

And what language barriers?  Come on mate- we DO speak English in the land down under :wink1:

It would be nice to see more Americans come to Australia.  You get a few come through, but not as many as we do Englishmen and other Europeans.  I'll swap with one of you guys- give me your US citizenship for a bit, and you can have my Aussie one.  Just for a bit of change?


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 9, 2007)

meth18au said:


> It's not so bad having tight gun laws over here. It just means that you're more likely to get stabbed in a street fight, rather than shot!!! he he. No, but really, it's not that bad. And martial artists are able to have weapons for training purposes.
> 
> And what language barriers?  Come on mate- we DO speak English in the land down under :wink1:
> 
> It would be nice to see more Americans come to Australia. You get a few come through, but not as many as we do Englishmen and other Europeans. I'll swap with one of you guys- give me your US citizenship for a bit, and you can have my Aussie one. Just for a bit of change?



Language issues in Western Europe are obvious. Sometimes speaking the "same" language but with the words having "different" meanings based upon culture can sometimes cause for laughs and or a bad misunderstanding.


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## OUMoose (Aug 14, 2007)

I would probably go back to NZ if I had to go.  The people are nice, as is the weather (if you can get used to the backwards seasons... having a barbecue for xmas was a little strange).  The taxes aren't bad, although at first it seems like it due to the currency conversion.  Driving isn't bad, as the whole "other side of the road" thing is pretty easy to pick up on.  Sidenote:  You don't need a NZ drivers license for 12 months after entering the country so long as you have a valid license from your home country.  I didn't even have to get a permit or anything.  

The flights to get there are hellish though, IMO.  I'd try to get at least business class next time, as cattle class for 13 hours was not fun by any stretch of the imagination.  Fly Quantas, skip the rest.  Period.

Other than that, I'd probably look into Southern France (Oui, je parle francais un peu), like Nice or Cannes, or Greece.  Anyone have any travel stories from France/Greece to share?


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## benj13bowlin (Aug 14, 2007)

I would like to travel throughout Asia.  I have wanted to go there since before High School.  Unfortunately the next time I leave the US will be to go back to Iraq for a while.


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## JBrainard (Aug 14, 2007)

Thailand.
All of those beautiful Buddhist temples and authentic Muay Thai in the same country... priceless.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 16, 2007)

NZ is a beautiful country.  It's got so many vistas crammed into such a compact area that its hard to take it all in.  Everywhere you look is absolutely stunning...and there is just so much to do.  I could have spent weeks in every spot.  I'm sad to leave, but excited to continue the process of getting my things in order to move.  

I have to say this though, if you are looking to move somewhere perfect, NZ is not the place.  I've seen some not so pretty things too.  So, you have to be realistic.  

If you are looking for a new adventure and a laid back lifestyle, then I don't think you can do much better


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