# Neck nerve question.



## relytjj (Mar 9, 2005)

When applying a choke I am aware of the effects of a blood or air choke and generally how long they take to incapacitate the subject. However, I've never been told the acute effects of a nerve choke or strike in the neck. I know the nerve choke is usually accompanied by a blood choke but wanted to know the effects a nerve choke has on the human body. I've researched this but only came up with some vague information about pain and numbness but no time frames for effect or the level of effect. Perhaps some of you more experienced grapplers could help me out.


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## WilliamJ (Mar 10, 2005)

Nerve choke? You mean like a neck crank?


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## BlackCatBonz (Mar 10, 2005)

i have never really heard of a nerve choke. most nerves require strikes in order to elicit a response. a slow change in a nerves environment usually makes for a slow physiologic change.


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## JDenz (Mar 12, 2005)

I have never heard of it either


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## theletch1 (Mar 12, 2005)

I know that there is often pain associated with a choke by the pressure put on the nerve endings in the neck but have never considered this part of a "nerve choke".


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## Tgace (Mar 12, 2005)

I believe hes talking about the Brachial Plexus Origin.


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## BlackCatBonz (Mar 13, 2005)

there are a lot of nerves that can be affected in the neck.......the brachial plexus is a group that controls motor and sensory functions in the arm.


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## Tgace (Mar 13, 2005)

A good shot to the brachial plexus origin can result in a KO. Its the root of the old "Karate Chop"/"Vulcan nerve pinch" legends. Ill have to dig it up, but I had a vid clip of an LEO laying out a combative suspect with a good shot to it. Just above where the neck and shoulder meet. The technique as I recall it calls for a "driving"/"Fluid Shock" blow vs. a sharp, chop sort of strike. The rest of the brachial plexus can be struck through the armpit. Resulting in some of the admonishments against stick blows to the area for LEO training. Reportedly it can be a lethal target.


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## relytjj (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. I shouldn't have worded it as a 'nerve choke' I was really talking about the effects of pressure from a choke on the neck nerves. Tgace mentioned exactly the nerves I was talking about.


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## Bod (Mar 14, 2005)

I think what you are talking about is a vagus synapse knockout.

When you blood choke against the carotid artery you can get a knockout in about ten seconds if it is tight.

However get your thumb knuckle in the vagus synapse (on the carotid) and the pressure goes up very fast, sometimes resulting in a knockout before the opponent even has time to tap. Say under a second. This is the famed stomach-9 knockout. There is huge dispute over whether the knockout can be done by striking. I don't know or care much.

You see it more in Judo or BJJ with the gi, since the lapel really aids getting your thumb or finger knuckles into the artery. There is a story that Gene Lebell got one on Steven Segall so fast that he passed out and wet himself. Probably a myth, but one based on several true stories.


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