# My new toy . . .



## thardey (Aug 19, 2008)

I've been picking your brains on this board for quite a while now, trying to find a good fit for me to carry, but still have firepower, and I'm pretty happy with what I settled on.

Last weekend I picked up a Kahr CW .40 as my main carry pistol. It's a little light for a .40, but with a few mags through it, I'm sure I can get used to the extra kick - but I certainly wouldn't go any lighter for a .40.

It's just big enough that I can fit my whole hand on the grip, but it's just small enough (and slim, with a single-stack.) That it fits beautifully in my front pocket. (I wear slacks and loose-fit khaki's.) I avoided this gun before, since it looks bigger in the pictures than it actually is. (The trigger guard is small, so it makes the rest of the gun look bigger by comparison.)

I also really like the partially-cocked Double-action-only trigger. It reminds me of shooting my Glock, with just a little longer trigger pull. It makes for a very smooth pull, right out of the box. I've only put one box of ammo through it, so I'm looking forward to how it will feel after it smooths out. The factory recommended 200 shots to "break it in."

For those (like me, before this weekend) who haven't heard of the partially-cocked DAO, it works like this: When the slide cycles, the sear catches and cocks the firing pin about halfway back. Then the trigger only has to pull about 1/8th of an inch to bring the pin to a ready-to-fire position. It makes for a very smooth pull, with no external safeties.

The best part is that I picked it up for $415 at a gun show.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 19, 2008)

cant go wrong with that


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## Grenadier (Aug 19, 2008)

Nice choice, indeed!  

Those Kahr pistols have the smoothest DAO trigger pulls I've ever felt.  

Speer makes a 180 grain Gold Dot load specifically for short barrels.  A bit under 900 fps muzzle velocity, but it expands reliably, thanks to the more aggressive cavity.  Probably one of the softer-shooting .40 loads out there.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 19, 2008)

Cool, I'm not a huge fan of the .40, but if you're happy with it (and if the gun is reliable) good on ya.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 19, 2008)

The CW has a polymer frame. Say does it kick alot? It's lighter and slimmer than a Glock.

I carry a Glock 27, .40S&W, but it dosn't kick much more than my Glock 26 9mm but I wonder about the Kahr.

Say, did you know the Kahr top of the line pistols have polygon rifling like Glocks, but the lower cost versions have conventional rifling.

Deaf


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## KenpoTex (Aug 20, 2008)

I didn't know they used different rifling...interesting.


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## thardey (Aug 20, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> The CW has a polymer frame. Say does it kick alot? It's lighter and slimmer than a Glock.
> 
> I carry a Glock 27, .40S&W, but it dosn't kick much more than my Glock 26 9mm but I wonder about the Kahr.
> 
> ...



Mine has conventional rifling.

I does jump, and I had a tendency to grip it for dear life for the first couple of rounds, which made me tired - but when I relaxed, even "limp-wristed" it, and let it jump, it popped almost straight back, with much less muzzle flip than my Glock 21, so there was no problem. Also, rapid-fire was easy because of the minimal muzzle-flip. I could probably shot it fine by only holding it with two fingers, and letting my palm take the kick.

It felt about the same as my Colt .357 Lawman. (a full size revolver.) Definitely not enough kick to make me not want to practice. It was still fun to shoot. That's my measure of "too much kick." If it's no fun to play with, then it's too much.

I would definitely stick with the CW, not the PMs, because if the grip was any shorter, it would be a lot more punishing to shoot. As it is, you don't feel like you're shooting a compact, at all. That was with the regular 185 grain target loaded Winchesters. I haven't tried the low-recoil varieties yet.


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## thardey (Aug 20, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> Cool, I'm not a huge fan of the .40, but if you're happy with it (and if the gun is reliable) good on ya.



.40 not big enough for ya?


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## KenpoTex (Aug 20, 2008)

thardey said:


> .40 not big enough for ya?


 On the contrary...I've always felt the .40 was an answer in search of a question.  I'm perfectly happy (and confident) with a 9mm.  I have to carry a .40 for work (Glock 23) and feel that the only thing it does for me is reduce capacity and increase muzzle flip (thereby increasing the time between follow-up shots).

just my opinion...


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 20, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> I didn't know they used different rifling...interesting.


 
Ken the polygon rifling used in Glocks is a very tight yet slick rifling. It's not real good with soft lead bullets (tends to leave part of themselves in the barrels and thus raises pressures.. as in  kaboom) but very good with jacketed ones. You can expect a gain of about 30 fps over a conventionaly rifled barrel of the same length.

My Glock 26, using Wnchester +P+ 127 grain 'LEO only' loads gives a solid 1240 from the short 26 barrel and just about 1300 from a Glock 17. Not exactly .357 Magnum but getting there. I chroned that one myself!

The .357 Sig version I have, a Glock 32, gets over 1400 with 125gr loads. That IS .357 magnum.

As for the .40, it allows me to have a short frame weapon with a decent amount of ammo and decent velocity for a .40 round. It's my main carry gun.

You can expect an honest 1150 from the Winchster JHP 155gr from the little Glock 27! And around 1200 for the 135 DPX rounds (but the 155s are what I use and I don't loose sleep over worrying what is the 'best'.)

Not bad for a sub-compact with 11 to 12 shots! And if you want, carry a Glock 22 mag, 15 rounds, as your spare.

I use my Glock 26 is my practice gun. Same NY-1 trigger, same night sights, same everthing except cartridge. Use it in IDPA to.

Deaf


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## KenpoTex (Aug 20, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> Ken the polygon rifling used in Glocks is a very tight yet slick rifling. It's not real good with soft lead bullets (tends to leave part of themselves in the barrels and thus raises pressures.. as in kaboom) but very good with jacketed ones. You can expect a gain of about 30 fps over a conventionaly rifled barrel of the same length.


 Yeah, I'm familiar with the difference, I just wasn't aware that Kahr offered pistols with both types of rifling.


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## chinto (Aug 21, 2008)

cool if you are happy with a .40 and like the weapon go for it man! 
 Practice and get proficient with the weapon and very comfortable with it point shooting at close range, and sights at longer range. 
For myself I prefer a .45, but that is just me.. a good .40 should do most of what a .45 will... I would like with a 9mm make it a habit to shoot twice.. the "double tap" with it. but then even with the .45 I practice that some times.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 21, 2008)

I moved from a 9 mm to a 40 cal. awhile ago and could not be happier.  Heck after reading this thread today I am going shooting this morning.


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## Dave Simmons (Aug 21, 2008)

Talking about 40 cal has anybody had a chance to shoot Springfield XDM 40 cal ? I am considering getting one with 4" barrel most of the people I know are Glock fans. So what do you all think of Springfield XD and the XDM?


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## KenpoTex (Aug 21, 2008)

I don't like the XD...It's bulky (more so than the Glock), has a longer trigger-reset, has a higher bore-axis (more muzzle flip), is not as reliable, and IMO has too many safeties and gizmos.

just my $0.02


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## thardey (Aug 21, 2008)

Dave Simmons said:


> Talking about 40 cal has anybody had a chance to shoot Springfield XDM 40 cal ? I am considering getting one with 4" barrel most of the people I know are Glock fans. So what do you all think of Springfield XD and the XDM?





KenpoTex said:


> I don't like the XD...It's bulky (more so than the Glock), has a longer trigger-reset, has a higher bore-axis (more muzzle flip), is not as reliable, and IMO has too many safeties and gizmos.
> 
> just my $0.02



My opinion is mostly the same as KT, but then I'm one of the few lucky ones who have the type of hands/grip that the Glock was made for. (I have a .45, BTW.)

My sister, and one of my friends both recently bought XD .40's, and their hands are proportioned differently than mine - neither one felt "natural" with the Glock, but felt much better with the XD.

I've shot both of them, and they're both very reliable so far. But the longer trigger pull was a disadvantage, in my book. (Of course, with the Kahr, it's a much longer pull, but the gun is for a different purpose. - I didn't want a short pull in a pocket gun.)

It was actually in shooting the XD's that made me start looking for a .40 CCW gun in the first place. In short, it is still a good quality gun, and it is a lot of fun to shoot.

Like I said above, if it's fun to shoot, you'll shoot it more, and get better with it. If it's no fun to shoot, no matter how much it cost, you'll hate it, and even if you do carry it, you won't be comfortable when you need it.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 25, 2008)

I have 2  XD .45 acps ... a full size 4" service model and a full size 5" model....     
I shopped for glocks as most everyone would suggest and they do not fit in my hand not line up under the eye as I would like besides the safety is in the trigger and can be discharged if snagged.... 
I looked at 1911s (expensive) SIGs(expensive) and HK (expensive)  I trolled every shop for every pistol and came up short or could not afford what I saw....   
safety is an issue with me...wether it is retention , everyday carry , in the home or in the hands of a loved one... the XD is ultimate poster child for safety...  but none require you do anything but put a full grip on the gun....  there are no safety levers to think or forget about....no buttons or switches....   it has a glock style trigger safety and a 1911 style grip safety which both work simultaneously together...if  one is engaged and not the other the gun will not fire...   so... there must be a deliberate firing grip on the pistol to activate the sear.....  it also has an internal drop safety....    
it has a chamber loaded indicator that protrudes when a round is ready to fire so you can be sure even in pitch black that the gun is ready to fire without visually inspecting or performing a press check.... 

there is also a striker ready indicator that protrudes from the rear when it is ready to fire so you know you are cocked and ready to let em loose... 

it is not a single or dual action but an ultra safe action.... no hammer only a sear that is released when both the safeties are squeezed... 

it is fully ambedextrious and uses point and shoot ergonomics.... 
it was accurate out of the box even in the hands of inexperienced shooters....   

some people with small hands complain about the grip on my .45... but it also holds 13 rounds in a double stack mag so the grip reflects that...  i am only 5'11" appx 185... i do not have big hands and I comfortably slipped on a hogue handall and it feels wondeful still....  

they have an XDM now that has a few upgrades including interchangeable grips...it was released in .40 cal

you have to buy an xd to love it.... otherwise its just another addition to an already overwhelming market.... the gun speaks for itself and IMHO it is an highly improved glock....  it has features and improvements even the 2k wilson combats do not....    I can field strip it in 15 seconds the tolerances are excellent and the trigget pull is crisp and easy  

did I mention they torture tested it and it functioned flawlessly....


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## KenpoTex (Aug 26, 2008)

BLACK LION said:


> the gun speaks for itself and IMHO it is an highly improved glock.... it has features and improvements even the 2k wilson combats do not.... I can field strip it in 15 seconds the tolerances are excellent and the trigget pull is crisp and easy
> 
> did I mention they torture tested it and it functioned flawlessly....


 
To each his own, but AFAIC, the XD isn't even _close_ to the Glock in reliability.

"Torture testing" aside, I know instructors who's word and opinions I trust that have stated that about 75% of the XDs (in all calibers) that come through their classes end up failing (everything from multiple malfunctions to actual parts breakage)at some point during the class.  I have seen this with my own eyes on a couple of occasions.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 26, 2008)

I have put hundreds of rounds through mine and have only had and FTE  due to improper grip and a couple duoble feeds due to ammo and mag issues. I have heard of a guide rod breaking here and there and some extraction issues but the the only problems I have seen are from poor quality ammo or from issues with the magazine.  
Its a matter of preference...I too have seen many occasions where glocks have failed to perform or were defective from the factory... I am not bashing glocks and in fact will purchase a 10mm g20 when money permits...   they are more expensive(appx 700.00) and at this time outside my price range whereas the xd was 480.00 brand new... 
If you look around there are plenty of people out there with nothing but positive feedback on their XD and the same for glock....   glock has been making pistols since 82 so they better be good....  XD just came about in 2002 and they have already commanded the respect they deserve... I wonder what the xd will be like after 25+ years of research and development....  

there are glock lovers and xd lovers and some who dont like either... but if you want an opinion on an XD from someone who owns ,shoots and modifies them... then I have nothing but positive things to say about the xd...
to the dissapointment of the 1911 and glock crowd I chose the underdog....   twice


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 26, 2008)

The XD just is not even close to the same level as a Glock.  Just not the same reliability, really not even close.  I am glad yours is working for you but these are two distinctly different beasts in terms of reliability and durability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




KenpoTex I too have seen a few XD failures.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 27, 2008)

okay glock lovers, someone asked for an opinion on the XD.... 
I own 2 of them....both I have had since they came out in 2006 and neither of them have ever "failed" me ...even if I did have a discrepancy with that particular sidearm it would not negate the positive things about the line of pistols entirely....  those that own them know they dont suck and are more than willing to deal with whatever problems arise(mags, springs, guide rod)  
 I am sure there are plenty accounts of glock "failures"... and even still, I went down to the gun store today to take a peak at some glocks, sigs and hks....  i picked up a g20 AGAIN because i want a 10mm and it felt cheap ....it rattled when you shake it .... the grip and sight picture are not natural or comfortable to me.... there is only a trigger safety... one mag release for the thumb of the right hand...no chamber loaded indicator and no striker status indicator....it was 200.00 more than my xd... I want to like glocks and I have given them thier fair share of stage time but I just dont see them in that way....  thier safety and ergonomics are behind ....so what if it shoots underwater


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## BLACK LION (Aug 27, 2008)

i can see why there would be failures in a shooting class because they are learning to shoot....  i had failures when i was learning to shoot mine too...  until i figured out it was operator error and not the pistol


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## KenpoTex (Aug 27, 2008)

BLACK LION said:
			
		

> okay glock lovers, someone asked for an opinion on the XD....


And he received the opinions of those who believe that they are not all they're cracked up to be and that there are better options for a fighting handgun (since, IMO, reliability should trump *all* other considerations when choosing a tool on which to stake your life).



			
				BLACK LION said:
			
		

> I own 2 of them....both I have had since they came out in 2006 and neither of them have ever "failed" me ...even if I did have a discrepancy with that particular sidearm it would not negate the positive things about the line of pistols entirely....  those that own them know they dont suck and are more than willing to deal with whatever problems arise(mags, springs, guide rod)
> 
> I am sure there are plenty accounts of glock "failures"...


  Do Glocks occasionally fail? sure...but so does anything made by man.  The point a couple of us tried to make, is that collectively, the Glocks are more reliable than the XDs.



			
				BLACK LION said:
			
		

> I went down to the gun store today to take a peak at some glocks, sigs and hks....  i picked up a g20 AGAIN because i want a 10mm and it felt cheap ....it rattled when you shake it .... the grip and sight picture are not natural or comfortable to me.... there is only a trigger safety... one mag release for the thumb of the right hand...no chamber loaded indicator and no striker status indicator....it was 200.00 more than my xd... I want to like glocks and I have given them thier fair share of stage time but I just dont see them in that way....  thier safety and ergonomics are behind ....so what if it shoots underwater




There is a loaded chamber indicator, it's on the extractor.
There may not be a striker-status indicator, but if racking the slide isn't enough for you, you can always do a press-check.
It rattled when you shook it?  It should, that's the striker moving inside the channel.
$200 more than an XD...there are places to buy them where they're more competitively priced (online vendors etc.)
The Glocks are as safe as anything else out there...they have several internal safety mechanisms.  Just because they only have one external safety device does not make them less safe than other weapons.  Of course, *the primary safety is proper trigger-finger discipline*...without that, none of the levers and widgets are worth anything and no gun is any safer than another.
Ergonomics are purely a personal thing...not something that can be used to objectively judge an entire line of pistols (where have I heard that statement?)



			
				Black Lion said:
			
		

> i can see why there would be failures in a shooting class because they are learning to shoot.... i had failures when i was learning to shoot mine too... until i figured out it was operator error and not the pistol


 Operator error incidents are not included in the examples I mentioned.


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 27, 2008)

Clearly some people here have never heard of the Glock .vs. 1911 matches. They had them several times in McKinny Texas and at the SDSI range near Dallas.

Match went like this. You bring 1000 rounds. IPSC style match. Lots of runnin and gunning. The match will expend all 1000 rounds in one day.

Any production 1911 or Glock pistol can be used. In fact about any service pistol can be used!

NO CLEANING ALLOWED.

Your gun will be set on a table at lunch time, photographed with the others, and left there while you had lunch.

If during the match the gun malfunctions for any reason, you are to stop (and not clear the jam), let the SOs examine the manfunction and record it, and then clear and resume the match.

Virtually always the Glock 17s and 19s go the whole 1000 rounds. The .45 Glocks sometimes jam once are twice. The 1911s have had a few make it (a 9mm Springfield Armory and a STI .45 did that I remember.)

Don't know if XDs have ever survived the match with out a malfunction but I've never heard of one.

Deaf


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## Skpotamus (Aug 28, 2008)

My wife carries a Kahr PM9 and loves it.  I've been pretty impressed with it, we ran the gun dirty to see how long it could go between cleanings without jamming.  It started having some issues feeding hollowpoints right around 500 rounds.  FMJ's were still fine though.

I was working in gun shops when the XD ORIGINALLY came out, it was called the HS 2000 made in Croatia, cost $300 and was generally considered to be a handgun on the quality level of a good plinker or range pistol (along the lines of the S&W Sigma series).  Not something you would want to carry or trust your life to.  

Springfield Armory bought the croation company, stamped their name on the side of the gun, raised the price $150 and suddenly it's the second coming of sliced bread.  

I've shot them, and didn't like the high bore axis, the poor finish (regular bluing vs at least a parkerized finish, or the glock tennifer finish).  It wasn't until the 45 came out that the XD started to get a melonite finish, which is close in strength to a glock's tennifer, but not quite.  Don't believe me?  Take a crass key and scratch a glock's slide, then do the same to an XD.  The XD is permanently marred while the glock's mark will simply wipe off.  

The big thing I don't like is the safety system they use is less "safe" than the glock, but gets a better rep than the glock.  The glock is a DAO (Double action only), your trigger pull cocks the firing pin, without the trigger being pulled, the gun cannot fire since there is no stored energy to make the firing pin move forward.  It also has a firing pin block.  An XD/HS2000 is a single action gun, the firing pin stays cocked the entire time the gun is "safe".  If you hold the gun in your hand, you're removing the firing pin channel block, meaning that the sear is holding the gun from firing.  A hard impact to the gun could make the sear jump it's catch point and fire without the trigger being pulled.  

An XD is still a good gun, but it's just not in the same league as a Glock or Sig Sauer as far as reliability.  (it's about on par with an H&K, which is just a step down in reliability from a glock or sig).

For comparison, people say their XD only jammed once or twice every few hundred rounds.  I know the local sherrif's dept trainer who's shot over 150K rounds through his glock 22 without a single problem.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 28, 2008)

It all comes down to reliability and when you want that then a* Glock* is an obvious choice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Though to be fair there are other firearms that I enjoy as well.  However, when I am out and about then a Glock 
is what I take with me.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 28, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> It all comes down to reliability and when you want that then a* Glock* is an obvious choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


exactly.  I said almost the exact same thing in a conversation with another member here recently.

There is nothing wrong with owning a variety of guns for recreational shooting, competition, hunting, or just because you want one.  For the aforementioned purposes, it doesn't really matter what you choose.
However, when we are talking about choosing a gun that is going to be used for concealed-carry or home defense...something upon which you are staking your life and that of your loved ones, there are good and bad choices.


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## thardey (Aug 28, 2008)

Gentlemen . . .

Obviously the type of gun we carry is an intensely personal choice. It's part of who we are, and how we think. After all, you have to be honest with yourself if you're facing life-and-death decisions.

But there comes a point where it becomes a chevy-vs.-fords argument. There's been a lot of good information posted, and it's very informative, but let's see if we can keep it from being personal.

FTR, this was supposed to be a thread about KAHR's, not XD's, but as long as it stays healthy, I don't care. 

Me, I'm lucky - the Glock .45 fits my hands, and is fun for me to shoot. That means I don't have to choose between ergonomics and reliability. Others aren't so lucky. 

The XD doesn't fit my hands -- it feels like I'm going to drop it. Same with the 1911's. Which is odd, because the Kahr does fit, even though it's like 1/2 the size. 

But for some people, the Glock just is a pain to shoot. They have to choose between having fun shooting it (which translates into lots of practice), or having the little extra reliability. If you want to argue the most reliable, safe pistols, let's just go with a Double-action revolver and be done with it! But, we're willing to trade a little for the ability to carry more ammo, and a lighter gun.

But it is good to know that there is a trade-off for the XD - that it still doesn't measure up to the Glock like the marketing says it does.

*Skpotamaus*, that's interesting about the "DAO" for the XD, which really isn't. In looking at my sister's XD, it appeared that it had a similar mechanism as the Glock, I'll have to warn her about that. In my opinion, the DAO function is the safest protection in any gun - much better than any of the others. Even if it's a half-DAO, like the Kahr.

For you Glock boys, I'm still with you! In situations with heavier clothing, I carry the Glock IWB on my hip. In "deeper cover" (My job is such that some people would be highly offended if they knew that I carried - it would make my job much more difficult) I carry the Kahr in my front pocket.


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## BLACK LION (Aug 28, 2008)

*A wannabe Glock."* 

by Chaim Stein

That was my first thought after laying eyes on Springfield Armory's XD9 pistol. Closer inspection of the slide revealed the words "Made in Croatia." Those are words that, when stamped on the slide of a handgun, aren't known to inspire the consumer's confidence. 
I did not want to like this gun. I've always been a strong Glock fan, and it annoyed me that yet another company wanted to jump on the polymer bandwagon with a rehash of old concepts and designs. Despite that, one has to take notice when that company is Springfield Armory. Known for quality products, lifetime guarantees and fine customer service, Springfield Armory's name stamped on the other side of the slide does inspire confidence. 
The more I looked at this gun, the more I found myself comparing it to a Glock. The trigger safeties are very similar, but the XD's trigger is made of metal. Its sights are metal, too. The XD also has a superior trigger pull. The grip angle is improved, which enables more intuitive target acquisition for most shooters. 

Full story located here: http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php


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## teekin (Aug 29, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> exactly.  *I said almost the exact same thing in a conversation with another member here recently.*
> 
> There is nothing wrong with owning a variety of guns for recreational shooting, competition, hunting, or just because you want one.  For the aforementioned purposes, it doesn't really matter what you choose.
> However, when we are talking about choosing a gun that is going to be used for concealed-carry or home defense...something upon which you are staking your life and that of your loved ones, there are good and bad choices.



Don't drag me into this mess Kenpotex. I did say that I would take that god awful 9mm Glock with me into the Jungle if I could only take 1 pistol. I also said I'd whine about it till cause I have no feel or confidence with that gun, other than it'll keep firing round after round. ( If I have any choice I'd take the F.N. and leave he bleeding Glock at home):biggun:
 Lori M


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## KenpoTex (Aug 29, 2008)

Grendel308 said:


> Don't drag me into this mess Kenpotex. I did say that I would take that god awful 9mm Glock with me into the Jungle if I could only take 1 pistol. I also said I'd whine about it till cause I have no feel or confidence with that gun, other than it'll keep firing round after round. ( If I have any choice I'd take the F.N. and leave he bleeding Glock at home):biggun:
> Lori M


 I didn't _drag_ you into it, you jumped into it on your own


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## arnisandyz (Aug 29, 2008)

Also take a look at the M&P. I've owned a G17, and an XD, both good guns but never really fit me well, but I really like the M&P. Trigger out of the box is so-so but it really responds well and you can get a great trigger with a little work.

My first one has been serving double duty as an IDPA and USPSA Production gun shooting around 4 matches a month for over 2 years strait (probably over 1000 rounds a month including matches and practice) with zero problems. The slide is worn from all the draws and the magwell area is chewed up from all the reload practice...its beat to hell but still keeps going.  I also have one that I daily carry. I have since picked up a 5" M&P9L model and a 5" M&P Pro Series for the upcoming season(s).


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## Deaf Smith (Aug 29, 2008)

Well if you guys are wondering, if I only had one handgun to take into a jungle, yea it would be a Glock. A Glock 17. Of all the glocks, it's the only one to virtualy always go 1000 rounds without cleaning.

Chuck Taylor got one, put over 100,000 rounds through it, then sank it in the San Fran bay for 6 months, fished it out, only rust was on the stainless extractor plunger. Went ahead and put another 70,000 rounds through it. In fact he still uses it as a loaner for students (and that's how it go so many rounds through it.)

Yes a plain old stinky Glock 17 hands down is what I'd pick. While I own a whole bunch of guns from Sigs to Colts to Springfields to Kimbers to Smiths to..., and my carry Glock is the 27, I still keep one Glock 17.

Deaf


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 29, 2008)

1911 man myself. Once you're used to that grip and trigger, nothing else really feels the same.

My issue with the 1911 is I think it is a great gun, but I do NOT think it is a great "first" gun. Until you are used to the SAO trigger and the ins and outs of all mechanisms involved in safe "cocked and locked" carry, I too would steer a newb to a Glock.

Once you understand the ins and outs of the 1911 mechanism---and are prepared to commit to its cleanliness and upkeep---you could pick a hell of a lot worse choices IMO.


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## atinsley (Sep 20, 2008)

I know I am a little late on this thread, but figured I'd jump on in .

The choice of firearms, just like the various Martial Arts that we all train in, is a matter of personal choice.

I can't tell you what the best handgun for you is, just like I can't tell you what art is best for you. I can only give my thoughts and opinions, based on my personal preferences and experiences.

What you carry is a choice that needs to be made by you based off of what you want to do with the handgun, your shooting style and experience, your budget and whether or not you can shoot/handle the weapon of choice.

A friend of mine purchased an XD45 service for his wife; when they went to the range, she was unable to manipulate the slide and the gun did not fit right in her hands. I now own that gun and it was one of the best purchases I have made in awhile. The gun feels good in my hands and I found it to be very reliable. In fact, I liked the performance of the weapon so much, I went out and purchased an xd40sc, which is now my current ccw.

Side note: xd40sc kicks like a mule, much worse then either of the .45's that I have. Probably something to do with the 3" barrel, huh? 

Personally, I don't care for Glocks. Not because it isn't a good weapon, there's no question that it is, it's because it doesn't fit me. It just doesn't feel right when I shoot one. And because of that, I cannot place trust in something that I cannot comfortably use. 

I have another friend who swears by Glock's. If I were to give him my XD, he wouldn't take it, because he doesn't like the way it feels in his hands and he can't shoot it reliably.

So, in short, buy and use whatever you feel is a good fit for you and be happy with it; because after all, it is you who will be using that gun when the times comes, not us.


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 20, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> 1911 man myself. Once you're used to that grip and trigger, nothing else really feels the same.
> 
> My issue with the 1911 is I think it is a great gun, but I do NOT think it is a great "first" gun. Until you are used to the SAO trigger and the ins and outs of all mechanisms involved in safe "cocked and locked" carry, I too would steer a newb to a Glock.
> 
> Once you understand the ins and outs of the 1911 mechanism---and are prepared to commit to its cleanliness and upkeep---you could pick a hell of a lot worse choices IMO.


 The 1911 is definitely not a gun for novice shooters.  It's a professional shooters gun with all that entails.


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 20, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> Well if you guys are wondering, if I only had one handgun to take into a jungle, yea it would be a Glock. A Glock 17. Of all the glocks, it's the only one to virtualy always go 1000 rounds without cleaning.
> 
> Chuck Taylor got one, put over 100,000 rounds through it, then sank it in the San Fran bay for 6 months, fished it out, only rust was on the stainless extractor plunger. Went ahead and put another 70,000 rounds through it. In fact he still uses it as a loaner for students (and that's how it go so many rounds through it.)
> 
> ...


 A Glock is a gun you get when you have to have a gun that will fire no matter how you abuse it.  Many pro's pick it, but it's number1 as a grunts gun.  Treat it like crap and it will still save your life.


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