# Liars in the Martial Arts



## hardheadjarhead

Okay, folks...this sort of got going in a thread over in "Knife Arts".

How many of you have run into compulsive liars in the martial arts who misrepresent their training?  How about guys that say they're former Spec Ops?  I link the two because I see the same dynamic affecting both groups...and often they cross over with the Rambo types who are ninth dans in Ninjutsu who did seven tours in 'Nam and Laos...and are more than willing to tell you about it.

I KNOW you guys have some stories.  I have a bunch...but I'd like to hear yours.

Regards,


Steve Scott


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## Cruentus

One of my best friends actually is Special Ops (he's in a Ranger Unit). I think it's fun to watch someone lie about what they do in the military, just so I can watch my friend put them through the ringer.

It's funny because I run into younger guys (under 25 yrs old) all the time who are in the military, but who lie about their jobs. One guy who was stationed in Germany, and didn't even get his jumper wings was trying to tell us that he was a sniper, and he had jobs that "he couldn't talk about" when he was stationed. Yea....he couldn't talk about it because he didn't want to tell us about all the paper he was pushing behind a desk! 

It's even worse when they never even served, and they say they did! Out by my Fiancee's moms house in Western michigan there is this creepy older guy that lives by himself, and is known for telling his stories about how he was intercepted by blackhawks while he was hunting to go do spacial jobs for the CIA. 

It's sad, but you gotta laugh! :rofl:


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## Rich Parsons

Well I have run into good guys who have served a tour, and most of them do not talk about it. And I have run into some bad guys, who are out there.

Now A friend of mine and myself are real bad when we hear stuff liek that. We like roll our eyes up in our head and then stair off into space and then spout some real garbage about WWII or Korean War, or about being a space and flying a shuttle. Then we like focus back in and look around, and say, "Did it happen again?" Most of these people do not talk about the exploits around us after only one episode.

Now, I do not mean my antics as disrespect to anyone who has served. I respect that their service, yet I try to show these guys just how stupid they look, without causing a fight, by a direct challenge or calling them out.

Just my way, maybe not the best, yet, talking about being in active service about 20-30 years before I was born gets the point across most of the time.

With Respect
:asian:


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## Karazenpo

Years ago my friend opened a nightclub and asked if I'd help with their bouncers, specifically on liability issues as I am also a police training officer. He asked me if I'd take the floor with them and work the door on opening weekend. Of course someone has to tell some guy in the club of my background and he comes over to talk. Harmless, not threatening, but never-the-less just all the bullsh.t........He asks my rank I was a godan at the time and o fourse so is he, in kempo no less. I asked him if he had the form Kobayashi Maru (sp.?) and then 'caught' myself and said, "Of course you have it, it is a mandatory requirement in all kempo arts for 5th degree black."  He jumped on that one. So I 'm saying what an excellent form that is and asked what he thought of it and so forth. You see I really baited him in before I told him he was so full of sh.t that the name Kobayashi Maru- I took from a Star Fleet Academy training exercise I recently heard of on a new Star Trek movie at that time! He put his eyes down and walked away, finished his drink and left. Never saw him again. I had another guy, legitimate black belt instructor in the Okinawan arts actually tell me he could stop an aggressive attacker charging at him with his mind control. I won't even get into what I told him , lol. Many more incidents but I'm sure we all could go on forever on this topic. Yeah, you guys are right, you do hear that 'special ops' thing all the time. I've caught a few of those phonies myself! Great post! Funny stories, if these people ever realized how foolish they sound to us! LOL. Hey, next time it happens use that Kobayashi Maru form and see if you can trap someone and let me know, we'll all have a good laugh, thanks! 'Joe"


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## clapping_tiger

There was a guy who I worked with who was about 19 years old. Tried to tell us he was an Army Ranger. He had a tattoo and everything, he showed us. Me and my friend always laughed at hem and told him he was full of it. He was only about 19(21 at the very oldest but that would really be pushing it) first off,so how could he have served his time? The second thing is that we knew his best friends mother who told us he never even enlisted in the armed forces. Why do people this stupid even attempt to fool others.?


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## John Bishop

About 5 years ago I was at a local tournament in So. Calif.  I had voluntered to judge a kata ring.  At first there was just one black belt and myself sitting there waiting for the other judges.  This judge had a couple stripes on his belt, and a kenpo patch.  So, as usual I asked him where he was from.  He told that he had trained with a local kenpo instructor, but now he was training with a kung fu instructor in the mountains.  So, having spent a lot of time in the local mountains I asked him about this instructor.  He told me the gentlemens name, and went on to tell me that he had trained at the Shaolin Temple.  I said "Oh Really" thinking to myself of all the so called Shaolin Temple claims I had heard over the years.  Then the black belt said "I know he's real because he has the scars".  That statement took me by surprise, because I couldn't figure out what he was talking about.  So I asked "what do you mean, scars".  He then looked at me, and with a straight face said, "he has the dragon and tiger scars burn't on his arms".   I really didn't know what to say to him at the time, but the thought of it kept a smile on my face all day.


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *
> It's funny because I run into younger guys (under 25 yrs old) all the time who are in the military, but who lie about their jobs. One guy who was stationed in Germany, and didn't even get his jumper wings was trying to tell us that he was a sniper, and he had jobs that "he couldn't talk about" when he was stationed. Yea....he couldn't talk about it because he didn't want to tell us about all the paper he was pushing behind a desk!
> *



I'm not trying to challange you but, do marines need to go to jump school to be a sniper. Just wondering.



> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> *
> There was a guy who I worked with who was about 19 years old. Tried to tell us he was an Army Ranger. He had a tattoo and everything, he showed us. Me and my friend always laughed at hem and told him he was full of it. He was only about 19(21 at the very oldest but that would really be pushing it) first off,so how could he have served his time?
> *



Again, I'm not really trying to defend this guy, but if he was 21, then couldn't he have put his 4 yrs in. Most of the time, if I'm not mistaken, the training that it takes to get into the rangers (jump school, ranger training, ect) is included in your tour. 

Note: I've never been in the military, so I'm looking for info more than challanging or providing info.


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## Shiatsu

Well as being military.  No you don't have to go to jump school to be a "Marine" sniper.  I'm not sure about the Army snipers, but pretty much everyone in the Army goes to jump school.

As for liers in the martial arts, well there are plenty.  I have a good one for you.  I will give you the link.  He only actually tested for his Black in Red Dragon karate.  His Taekwondo rank was bought, he can't even show you all of the forms for black.  He is something in Taiho jitsu, yet he never actually studied it.  Taekenjuryu, he founded and gave himself the rank, same with his White dragon rank.  He basically bought all the others.  Even became religious to win more students in the area.  Yet continued to drink and smoke.  By the way it is the Mormon religion, otherwise I wouldn't bring it up.

He has blackbelts go from white belts to 2nd or 3rd degree in a matter of two years. I know a kenpo black belt there that went from white to black in "white dragon" in under a year, look under the sensei profiles and you do the math.


www.wdob.net

Oh ya the fifth degree masters went from 1st to fifth in 2.5 years.

Reminds me of Red dragon in California.  Black Belt program and the whole nine yards.  Threatening former students.  You name it.:soapbox:


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## hardheadjarhead

Nah...you don't have to go to jump school to be a Marine sniper.  Didn't when I was in, anyway.  Most of the jump billets went to guys who were in Force Recon units...or Anglico.  You'd get your lead wings and then go back to your unit and get your jumps in for your gold Navy jump wings.  But I digress.

I have a friend named Jeff Westfall...a Muay Thai and JKD/Kali instructor in Evansville Indiana...who was at a party.  He heard someone talking about martial arts and drifted over to listen in, naturally, as any of us would do.

The guy was sort of bragging to a girl or girls about his kickboxing experience.  Eventually he started talking about his instructor...now Jeff didn't know the guy doing the bragging, but he was VERY familiar with the instructor the guy was claiming to train under.  The guy said he trained under Jeff Westfall!

Clarification:  There is only ONE Jeff Westfall teaching kicboxing in Evansville, Indiana.  In fact, there may be only one Jeff Westfall in that region.

Jeff said something like "Who did you say your instructor was?"

"Jeff Westfall."

Jeff pulled out his driver's license and asked him, "What do you notice about this?"

The guy said...I kid thee not..."You have the same name as my instructor!"

Jeff said, "I think we both know that isn't the case."  The guy sort of wilted, and skulked away.

------------------
Jeff...if you read this story, forgive me.  I had to pass it on.

Jeff, by the way, just got promoted to Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto, and received his Associate Instructor rating under Ajarn Chai Sirisute.  

Jeff is a great guy...and one of the brightest and best read martial artists I've ever met.  He's up there with Rich Parsons.  

Danged hyperintellectuals.  Its bad enough they're smarter than me, but when they can also kick my butt...all the while quoting Proust or Nietzche...that just makes me steam.  

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Nah...you don't have to go to jump school to be a Marine sniper.  Didn't when I was in, anyway.  Most of the jump billets went to guys who were in Force Recon units...or Anglico.  You'd get your lead wings and then go back to your unit and get your jumps in for your gold Navy jump wings.  But I digress.
> 
> I have a friend named Jeff Westfall...a Muay Thai and JKD/Kali instructor in Evansville Indiana...who was at a party.  He heard someone talking about martial arts and drifted over to listen in, naturally, as any of us would do.
> 
> The guy was sort of bragging to a girl or girls about his kickboxing experience.  Eventually he started talking about his instructor...now Jeff didn't know the guy doing the bragging, but he was VERY familiar with the instructor the guy was claiming to train under.  The guy said he trained under Jeff Westfall!
> 
> Clarification:  There is only ONE Jeff Westfall teaching kicboxing in Evansville, Indiana.  In fact, there may be only one Jeff Westfall in that region.
> 
> Jeff said something like "Who did you say your instructor was?"
> 
> "Jeff Westfall."
> 
> Jeff pulled out his driver's license and asked him, "What do you notice about this?"
> 
> The guy said...I kid thee not..."You have the same name as my instructor!"
> 
> Jeff said, "I think we both know that isn't the case."  The guy sort of wilted, and skulked away.
> 
> ------------------
> Jeff...if you read this story, forgive me.  I had to pass it on.
> 
> Jeff, by the way, just got promoted to Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto, and received his Associate Instructor rating under Ajarn Chai Sirisute.
> 
> Jeff is a great guy...and one of the brightest and best read martial artists I've ever met.  He's up there with Rich Parsons.
> 
> Danged hyperintellectuals.  Its bad enough they're smarter than me, but when they can also kick my butt...all the while quoting Proust or Nietzche...that just makes me steam.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Scott *



Forgive my ignorance, but what is Anglico. 

BTW, That's a great story!


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *. . .
> Jeff is a great guy...and one of the brightest and best read martial artists I've ever met.  He's up there with Rich Parsons.
> 
> Danged hyperintellectuals.  Its bad enough they're smarter than me, but when they can also kick my butt...all the while quoting Proust or Nietzche...that just makes me steam.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Scott *



Steve,

Wow, you know another Rich Parsons. As I know my dad does not train maybe it is the CEO of AOL? Cause I know you are not talking to me. We just met at the DE WMAA Camp. And if for some reason you are. Thank you Sir. This has me floored.

BTW I never did quote the Conscious thread of Neitzche while instructing  or any other such quotes.  you make us sound like the old bards who would be singing and fighting at the same time.

Once again WOW!
:asian:


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## clapping_tiger

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *
> Again, I'm not really trying to defend this guy, but if he was 21, then couldn't he have put his 4 yrs in. Most of the time, if I'm not mistaken, the training that it takes to get into the rangers (jump school, ranger training, ect) is included in your tour.
> 
> Note: I've never been in the military, so I'm looking for info more than challanging or providing info. *


Just to clarify
I did say that if he was 21 that was really pushing his age. This was about 5 years ago that I worked with him and I don't think he was of drinking age. Also remember the clincher of the story was that his best friends mother told us he has never even been in the military. You do have to enlist in order to become a Ranger. He was a guy who probably always wanted to be a big army guy but did not have the courage to actually go through with it, or couldn't for some reason and still wanted to have the bragging rights.

 Unfortunately I can't tell you anything about the armed services except how fun the MEPS and ASVAB tests are, althoough you do get to meet a lot of interesting people. When I tried to enlist back in 1993 I failed my Physical, I had a problem with High Blood Pressure and they didn't want me.  They put me on medical protocol which meant I had to see a doctor a couple of times and they did some tests but in the end they still didn't want me. Oh well, if I had gone I never would have met my wife.

By the way HardHeadJarHead, Excellent story wish I could have been there to see that.:rofl: :rofl:


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## D.Cobb

> _Originally posted by Karazenpo _
> *Years ago my friend opened a nightclub and asked if I'd help with their bouncers, specifically on liability issues as I am also a police training officer. He asked me if I'd take the floor with them and work the door on opening weekend. Of course someone has to tell some guy in the club of my background and he comes over to talk. Harmless, not threatening, but never-the-less just all the bullsh.t........He asks my rank I was a godan at the time and o fourse so is he, in kempo no less. I asked him if he had the form Kobayashi Maru (sp.?) and then 'caught' myself and said, "Of course you have it, it is a mandatory requirement in all kempo arts for 5th degree black."  He jumped on that one. So I 'm saying what an excellent form that is and asked what he thought of it and so forth. You see I really baited him in before I told him he was so full of sh.t that the name Kobayashi Maru- I took from a Star Fleet Academy training exercise I recently heard of on a new Star Trek movie at that time! He put his eyes down and walked away, finished his drink and left. Never saw him again. I had another guy, legitimate black belt instructor in the Okinawan arts actually tell me he could stop an aggressive attacker charging at him with his mind control. I won't even get into what I told him , lol. Many more incidents but I'm sure we all could go on forever on this topic. Yeah, you guys are right, you do hear that 'special ops' thing all the time. I've caught a few of those phonies myself! Great post! Funny stories, if these people ever realized how foolish they sound to us! LOL. Hey, next time it happens use that Kobayashi Maru form and see if you can trap someone and let me know, we'll all have a good laugh, thanks! 'Joe" *



Kobayashi, Kobayashi????

I know! He was the "man with the plan", in Usual Suspects, with Kevin Spacey.

:rofl: :rofl: 

--Dave

:asian:


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## ABN

I resent the whole tone and intent of this thread. It is people like you who made my life difficult when I was single and trying to meet women. Guys like you always laughed when I explained that I was the door gunner on the space shuttle 

   Seriously though, I have had a few occassions where I have had to make on the spot corrections of young E-2's roaming through airports wearing medals they weren't entitled to (my favorite was the Air Force E-2 wearing the Navy Cross). My dad likes to joke that the reason we had so many problems in Vietnam was that all of the SF guys were in Ocean City, MD at the time. Every time they went to lock up some drunk it was "don't mess with me I'm a green beret." or "I'm a black belt.." I had no idea that Ocean City had such a vibrant spec ops community...


andy


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by ABN _
> *I resent the whole tone and intent of this thread. It is people like you who made my life difficult when I was single and trying to meet women. Guys like you always laughed when I explained that I was the door gunner on the space shuttle
> ...
> andy *



Andy,

As we never saw each other for you know those classified reasons, I was the Port Door Gunner, I can only assume you were the Starboard side? :rofl: 

Sorry everyone I could not resist


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## ABN

Rich,
   You were under orders not to discuss any aspects of that highly classified mission that took place! I have turned your name over to that guy in the CIA who hand picked us for that mission right after we got back from Dallas in November of 1963. You remember him his name was.......(shhhhh) Marvin Gardens.


andy


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by ABN _
> *Rich,
> You were under orders not to discuss any aspects of that highly classified mission that took place! I have turned your name over to that guy in the CIA who hand picked us for that mission right after we got back from Dallas in November of 1963. You remember him his name was.......(shhhhh) Marvin Gardens.
> 
> 
> andy *


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by ABN _
> *Rich,
> You were under orders not to discuss any aspects of that highly classified mission that took place! I have turned your name over to that guy in the CIA who hand picked us for that mission right after we got back from Dallas in November of 1963. You remember him his name was.......(shhhhh) Marvin Gardens.
> 
> 
> andy *


:rofl: Oh my gosh you got me laughing and I was expecting something like this.


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## hardheadjarhead

Rich,

Yeah...I was talking about you.  You impressed me with your range of knowledge when we were talking over coffee.  I got the impression you were a true polymath, and well studied across the spectrum.  

I thought the CEO of AOL was Steve Case.  But then he's just the founder, not the CEO, I guess.   SEE???  You did it again.  Went and outclassed me in the cultural literacy area.  

I laughed my tail off on that "door gunner on the space shuttle" line, Andy.  That was classic.  I'm using that one.  

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## hardheadjarhead

Okay...back to topic.  My next story.

Guy walks into a school I'm teaching in, November of 1982.  I recall it clearly...it was snowing.  He is walking like Kwai Chang Caine going across rice paper...wearing a black gi, fresh out of the package by its looks.  No belt.  

Let us call him Johnny.  Not his real name.

He says he wanted to train.  I ask him if he's ever studied martial arts before.  He tells me he is a 5th dan in Kung Fu and a 5th dan in Ninjutsu.  I ask him who he trained with in Kung Fu and where...he says he trained in Indianapolis, but his instructor died.  I ask him who he trained under in Ninjutsu.  It was the era of Ninjamania, so I figured maybe he'd gone to Ohio to train under Stephen Hayes.

He looks up at the ceiling, trying to recall.  "What was his name?" He says.  You can tell its on the tip of his tongue...or something.

At this point I recognize what type of person I've got on my hands.  I can't resist.  I bait.

"Was it Hatsumi, Johnny?"

"YEAH.  That was him."

"Wow.  Where did you study with him?"

"China."

"China, Johnny?  Hatsumi lives in Japan."

And then, a dismissive wave of the hand.

"China, Korea, Japan.  It was one of those places.  I don't remember."

Johnny, who was 27, would jump around from school to school and train a bit.  Everybody let him wear his belt.  He'd go to each school and tell the people there how he kicked the butts of the other instructors in town.  This backfired for him...because we knew each other.

A local TKD instructor called the Kenpo instructor (we'll call him Bill)and chortled, "Hey, Johnny says he kicked your butt!"   Bill, an old timer under Ed Parker, took umbrage to that.

When Johnny came into his school, the Bill made it a special sparring day and beat the snot out of poor Johnny.  Handily.  The Ninjutsu footwork just wasn't on that day.  Covered in blood and crying, Johnny yelled, "Well, that's all and good, Bill, but that wouldn't work on the street!"

"Well, Johnny, do you want me to drag you out on the street and try it out there?"

The last I heard of Johnny he had passed some bad checks at a 7-11.  He went down to the place he'd passed them, said he was a cop, flashed a badge, and managed to get the bad checks back from the clerk on duty.  He told her he needed them for evidence.  She knew they had bounced...but had no idea the perp was actually the "cop" she was handing them over to.

He called my school once posing as one of his own students (he never had any)...and then bragged about himself.  

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## hardheadjarhead

OUlobo,

I attempted to post a response to your question, "what is Anglico"...somehow it didn't make it on.  I'll blame it on the Geomagnetic storm.  Yeah...that's it.  The storm is to blame.

ANGLICO is an acronym for Air/Naval Gunfire Liasion Company.  They had disbanded, I guess...but then one of my black belts, another former Jarhead, says they reformed for the last war.

Don't really need to tell anyone what ANGLICO does...the name pretty much explains it.  


Regards,

Steve Scott


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## OULobo

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *OUlobo,
> 
> I attempted to post a response to your question, "what is Anglico"...somehow it didn't make it on.  I'll blame it on the Geomagnetic storm.  Yeah...that's it.  The storm is to blame.
> 
> ANGLICO is an acronym for Air/Naval Gunfire Liasion Company.  They had disbanded, I guess...but then one of my black belts, another former Jarhead, says they reformed for the last war.
> 
> Don't really need to tell anyone what ANGLICO does...the name pretty much explains it.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Scott *



Thanks I appreciate the input.


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## TonyM.

Someone over at kung fu magazine's forum says they teach kung fu to the special forces and rangers. Perhaps they have students that attend classes off duty but it's doughtfull SF or the 2nd battalion brings in civillians for HtH. At least the rangers didn't in '74,'75 and 76'. Me thinks someone is selling wolf tickets.


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## ABN

No doubt someone is inflating their self image. Outside of Bragg in Fayetteville, NC are quite a few dojos and anonymous garages that host all sorts of people. Many of them that come to spar and train are assigned to SOCOM but, that's never the point. People are there to train no more and no less.  Don't bring your resume, bring your sweats and be ready to train...

It's also highly unlikely that a civ would be brought in to train a Ranger unit at the battalion level considering the fact that the companies within the bats are scattered to the four winds. Also, the most recent version of the Army FM on combatives was primarily a Ranger product with a big focus on BJJ.

Oh well, next week some one will have trained Seal Team 12 (and before anyone says something yes, I know there is no Seal Team 12 I am being sarcastic), after they were hired by the top Navy Seal Rear Admiral Haywood Zhablomee to train them for a secret mission so covert it will never be admitted to. 

The various special operations communities though have gone to great lengths to identify these individuals and those like them. I know of two web sites (one run by Rangers the other by SEALs) that identify by name, location, and photo (if available) people who claim association with these organizations falsely. 

and the beat goes on....

andy


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## hardheadjarhead

Some of the black belts in my school roleplay as "bad guys" for a SWAT school they run here in Bloomington periodically.  We get to pull aluminum trainers on them and fight them...with control.  Its so much fun I can't begin to tell you.

One of my black belts blurted out the other day, "We train the cops!"  I corrected her.  We don't train them.  The cops train the cops...we role play, and thus they get good training.  We don't teach them a thing.  We're instruments in their training.

I was in a Reserve Force Recon Unit in Hawaii...but I never claim to be Force Recon.  It was part of the 270 delay program back in 1974-75 that allowed me to train with a reserve unit BEFORE Boot Camp.  Hell, I wasn't even a Marine, officially.  I don't even think I got paid...I can't remember.

I went to Jump School at Benning thanks to being in that unit...pulled some strings and got a slot after Boot Camp...but I don't say I'm Airborne.  I got my lead wings, and got to jump on Uncle Sam's nickle.  It was fun...but it was only five jumps.

I served in an Intel billet in the Marines...but I wasn't really an Intelligence Officer.  Didn't have the MOS, inspite of the posting.  Most of my work in that job was as a Drug and Alcohol Abuse Control Officer, DAACO, which I hated.  I referred troops to counseling and treatment.  Whee.

But if I was so inclined, I could say that I was an Airborne Force Recon vet who was later doing special assignments in Intel that I'd rather not talk about (knowing wink), but it had something to do with drug interdiction, but now I train SWAT people special close combat tactics.

Would that set women's hearts a-flutter?  Please, tell me.  If it doesn't, I'll pose as a plastic surgeon.

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## ABN

Steve,
  Why not combine the two? Tell women of your younger spec ops days and then explain that you had to have plastic surgery to change your appearance in order to hide from the government because you "knew too much." This would also allow you stay at their place for a couple of days and then easily disappear because you had been "discovered". Hey is anybody writing this down....? 

andy


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## jdmills

When I started law school, I became friends with a guy who was actually still active duty Army (I think the Army was sending him to school to become a JAG officer).  I asked him what he did in the Army and he said that he was a medic.  I was out running with him one day and noticed that tattoo on his arm, partially uncovered by the t-shirt.  The tattoo was orange and black and said "RANGER".  He was a medic in the Rangers but did not feel it necessary to tell me that.

Generally, guys that do it don't feel the need to tell everyone about it.


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## NYCRonin

I work with a guy in his 40's who has a fairly large, black tattoo on his forearm. 
It says 'Nam - I spent my time in hell'.
Whenever the few Vietnam Vets asked kim about it - he sorta hemed and hawed saying something like "Bro, you know how it was. I never talk about it'. Then excuses himself, looking disturbed; and walks away.

He got away with it for awhile - until one of the real Vet's managed to look in to his personel file.

He has never served in the military, at all. 
Probaly never got closer than boy scouts.

When called to task about it he claimed to have been a member of a unit "MAC-SOG".
So secret, the records are not made public. Bull!
The real vets, past and present dont even talk to him anymore.
Still, I bet he fools more than a few naieve at the bar.


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## tshadowchaser

Reading this thread has been verry enjoyable. 
==============

I have seen to many of the Martial Arts ans SF fakes in my  time. 
            -----------

I was once accused of being a wannabe spook/spec opps just for saying i served with and knew people who where. Sorry folks I never made any claims like that I only say I know others who put there lives on the line in that respect . THEY do not talk about it unless they know you verry well or are completly drunk. They are never the one to start conversations about there exploits and most of the time downplay any knowledge they may have.
===========================
I worked (years ago with a young man who claimed some fantastic military achivments only trouble was he was 19 and the events he claimed to have taken part in would have happened when he was 10.  My friend who had gone to jump school would ask stupid aounding questions of the guy just to hear stupider answeres from someone who had no idea how many jump towers there where at the school.  Oh, almost forgot, He also had his dragon tiger rank from his Ninja master and was getting ready to be promoted to lesser master or some such thing


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## Reprobate

A friend of mine was once accosted by a flake who told him he taught jiu-jitsu to police officers. Whereupon my friend replied that his job was way tougher - he taught aikido to children. The flake took umbrage, until my friend grinned and said, 'Ever tried to get forty children throwing each other without anyone getting hurt?'

Flakes are everywhere. If they boast about their feats, let them. So does the village idiot. Just watch out if they go corporate...


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## Jay Bell

Love this thread  

April 13th, 2001 --

What follows is a letter written by Peter Crocoll in concerns to John Lisco (Or Jaon, another name that he goes by, claiming to be a twin). 

-----------------------------------

To whom it may concern:

A martial arts instructor from Estrella Mountain Community College brought to my attention some safety and fraud concerns with a Mr. John Lisco, who is teaching Bujinkan Ninpo to young people in the Avondale community at Loma Linda Park behind St. Johns Catholic Church on Tuesday & Thursday at 1:30pm and Saturday at noon.

My name is Peter Crocoll. I am a Shidoshi and certifed teacher of the Bujinkan under Grandmaster Soke Hatsumi from Noda-shi, Japan. I have been training in the art for 19 years and go to Japan twice a year to see my teacher. I am the senior teacher of this martial art in the valley.

After some investigation into the EMCC instructors concerns, I discovered unsafe training practices and faudulent claims being made by Mr. Lisco. He is falsely representing the International Bujinkan by:

1. Unauthorized use of Dr. Hatsumi's name.
2. Unauthorized use of the Intenational Bujinkan symbol and guidlines for membership.
3. Unauthorized use of Arizona Bujinkan art work.
4. Claiming to be a black belt rank - he is not.
5. Claiming to be a licensed instructor of the International Bujinkan.
6. Claiming to be able to rank his students through Japan.

I have confronted Mr. Lisco to cease and desist these un-authorized practices. I am informing you of this issue because young people in your community could be harmed by his dangerous practices. This martial art does not teach nor train in the manner that Mr. Lisco is teaching. He is not a member in good standing of the International Bujinkan and in no way represents this martial art.

It is not acceptable for me to let this situation go un-attended. I am doing my part by confronting Mr. Lisco, contacting appropriate people in the International Bujinkan organization and contacting the community.

Neither I, my organization, Arizona Bujinkan Ninpo & Budokai, nor the International Bujinkan assume any type of responsibility or liability for Mr. Lisco's actions or behavior.

Thank you for your time and consideration of this matter. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

Sincerely,

Peter Crocoll

------------------------

Mr. Lisco, beyond claiming to be a certified, "Shihan-Shidoshi" in the Bujinkan and personal student of Hatsumi Sensei, also claims to be an ex-Army ranger - no information to be found to validate any of these claims. What he does teach is dangerous, and not in any way, shape or form related to actual Bujinkan teaching. Mr. Lisco is *not* a certified teacher in the organization.

About a year and a half ago, Mr. Lisco trained with the Arizona Ninpo & Budokai Dojo for some time, but left and ceased training with us before his first promotion. He came and left as a white-belt. If you know of someone that has been training with Mr. Lisco, please have them read this post, or email me personally at (no longer valid) for more information if need be.


Thanks for your time,

Jay Bell


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## hardheadjarhead

Andy wrote:

"Steve,
Why not combine the two? Tell women of your younger spec ops days and then explain that you had to have plastic surgery to change your appearance in order to hide from the government because you "knew too much." This would also allow you stay at their place for a couple of days and then easily disappear because you had been "discovered". Hey is anybody writing this down....? "

Sounds like a good trick.

I'm going to go see my orthopedic surgeon on Nov. 5th about a bad elbow.  Maybe I'll just get a couple of dozen business cards and pretend I'm him.

But then I'd have to explain why I'm driving a Ford Focus..."Its the one I got my kid for his sixteenth birthday...I let him borrow the Lexus for the weekend...Prom night you know.  My ex wouldn't let him have the Suburban.  One of the reasons we split...wasn't generous...blah, blah."

Dang.  I could be good at this.


Regards,



Steve Scott


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## OULobo

I don't know how well this applies to the thread, but I qlways thought it was funny. 

Not long ago I found out about a new school forming up on the boonies side of my town and figured I'd check it out. I had already met the instructor and he's a really nice, guy so I went to to the school to go introduce myself to and meet his students. The day I showed up I walked in and was greeted by the instructor, and as I wasn't dressed to train decided to just watch until the end of class and then get to know everyone. 

I stood in the lobby until the end of class and just watched. At the end of the class one of the guys came over and introduced himself and asked in which branch I had served. I told him I was never in the service. He gave me a side ways glace and just said "oh".  About ten minutes later he came back up to me and asked, "What branch did you say you served in again?". I said I didn't and again he walked away. 

I didn't think much about it and just had a good time meeting everyone. About two weeks later, I came back to train and went out to eat with everyone lafterwards. When I was talking to the instructor at dinner he told me that the guy I talked to had convinced everyone that because I stood like a military man and had a very squared away appearance that I was a recently discharged vet that had just got off some kind of "spook unit" and I was well versed in the arts because it was part of my training and a common hobby of "my type". He even convinced them that I told him I wasn't in the services because I probably couldn't talk about the things I had done. It took me another two weeks to convince him I was just a regular guy. 

Just goes to show that some people are so ready to believe that they will even make it up on their own.


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## hardheadjarhead

Interesting story.  People buy into myths...and create them...sometimes at the drop of a hat.  I wonder if this guy believes the Illuminati were responsible for the death of Kennedy, that crop circles are traffic directions for space invaders, and that Bigfoot exists.

I wonder if the dynamic is similar.  Maybe the liars and believers have similar brain functions.  Myth construction...the desire for others to believe the outlandish...myth believing...the desire to believe the outlandish.  Maybe its all borderline schizophrenia.

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## OULobo

Well, I've always said that I'm not schitzophrenic . . . and neither am I.


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## hardheadjarhead

Yes, OUlobo, but are you a PARANOID?  Are they out to get you?  

The voices in my head say they're out to get ME.

I'd band together with you, but I don't trust you.  You probably are posing as someone like me so to earn my trust.  I bet you work for the government and are trying to get close to me so that you can take over my mind and use me as a slave.

But you won't.  None of you will!  I'M WISE TO YOUR MACHINATIONS!!!!!


The meds...the meds...they're nothing more than mind control pills.  The doctor is in on it too.

<snapping sound of one going Postal...>

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## jdmills

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they are not out to get you!


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## hardheadjarhead

I know that!  All my imaginary friends told me...

SCS


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## OULobo

Getting back to the military vets issue, I met a guy who was dating my fiance's best friend who was a Marine. He said that he was originally a infantry machine gunner and then he became a member of something called a FAST company. He said they were like the Marine version of SWAT and that the last thing he did was become an instructor for the teams. He said that he had seen some interesting things and had been places like the middle east and eastern Europe. He said he could talk about it a little, but that the gov. has a tendancy to classify things for really lame reasons. The one thing that I remember him talking about was getting flown to Alaska to guard a Navy sub that had some trouble and was temporarily stranded. I hadn't heard of FAST companies and didn't know what to think. I did some cursory research and found that there were such things as FAST companies that were pretty much what he described.


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## Jay Bell

Shao-lin Center for the Martial Arts
4383 Anasazi Lane
Sierra Vista, AZ 85650
Sifu Scott Merk


Say it with me folks....F-A-K-E.

Some background --

Scott used to teach IKCA Kenpo in Sierra Vista, Arizona.  After leaving his school from a personal issue, I learned that he was teaching as a blackbelt, but had never passed the black belt test.

Months later, he bellied up on his facility and ended up teaching out of another place, sub-letted by the owner.  I walked in one night browsing around (they sold rattan) and saw Scott teaching his students Shinai work...(WTH!?)

Fast forward to 2000.  I was teaching Bujinkan Taijutsu in Sierra Vista to a small bunch and a fellow showed up to watch.  He liked what he saw but was unsure about studying "Chuan Fa" and Bujinkan at the same time.  I asked him who he studied Chuan Fa from, his reply was, "Scott Merk".

After getting up off of the ground from seizing up with laughter, he and I got to talking...and realized that Scott was now claiming to teach Chuan Fa.  This fellow went on about Scott's training...which I picked apart and shed some of the reality light his way.  Glory stories of training in China and whatnot.  Pretty bad things, but Scott was always a charismatic sort...and quite believable.

Another student of mine (and very close friend, now roomate) was working with Scott at a call center at the time.  Scott would wear his "Chinese Waiter" uniform to work quite often    He would also boast about needing to head back to China to make amends with his Master.  *ahem*  My buddy's reply to this was, "But Scott...going _back_ to China gives the impression that you've actually been there!"

One day when our Buj-bunch were stretching, getting ready for training in the park, we saw Scooter teaching his sole student.  We watching him fall down 3 times in 30 seconds attempting to demonstrate kicking.  It was truly a site to behold.  His black and red sash was pretty also.

Eventually, everyone in the small little town pretty much caught on to his nonsense and the last I had heard, he had moved up to Tucson.  I'm not sure if he has set up shop or not...

If anyone here has run into Scott and knows of him teaching in Tucson, please approach him and very loudly profess, "Jay told me what a big goof you are."  I'm sure he'd love hearing from me


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## NYCRonin

"Jay-Bell - The Charlatan Slayer!"
Tonights episode: Jay encounters an instructor claiming to be a decendant of ancient Tibetan Dop-Dop warriors who settled in Paris after the Communist takeover of Tibet. See Jay fight off the hoard armed with nasty poodles, smelly cheeses, overpriced wines and arrogant attitudes. Will Jay prevail? Will his arsenal of soap last? Tune in tonight for a very special "Jay-Bell - The Charlatan Slayer'. 

On a more sane note - anyone who has been around long enough has at least a few stories of instances where they 'outed' a phony. Could be a catagory all its own.
It has to be done though - the general public has no idea whats genuine and the phonies hurt us all, ultimately. MArtists take for granted that the public can tell the difference - and they cant.
Hell, sometimes even we get fooled - for awhile.

Go get em, Jay!


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## theletch1

> He said he could talk about it a little, but that the gov. has a tendancy to classify things for really lame reasons. The one thing that I remember him talking about was getting flown to Alaska to guard a Navy sub that had some trouble and was temporarily stranded. I hadn't heard of FAST companies and didn't know what to think. I did some cursory research and found that there were such things as FAST companies that were pretty much what he described.


 Yeah, they do exist.  The Marine Corps as a whole can be considered something of a special ops unit if you want to stretch it far enough.  I do agree that the government has a tendency to classify everything first just to be on the safe side and then de-classify little by little.  I have found the best policy to be just to keep my mouth shut about everything:shrug:   Your friend being a machine gunner would be a very good MOS to have to get into a FAST company.


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## Jay Bell

> On a more sane note - anyone who has been around long enough has at least a few stories of instances where they 'outed' a phony. Could be a catagory all its own.
> It has to be done though - the general public has no idea whats genuine and the phonies hurt us all, ultimately. MArtists take for granted that the public can tell the difference - and they cant.
> Hell, sometimes even we get fooled - for awhile.



Amen, brother.


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## Shiatsu

FAST teams are definately for real, he wasn't lying.:asian:


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## hardheadjarhead

Anybody up on Hikuda?

This stuff was marketed by a guy calling himself Doc Lee.  It supposedly was passed down from the Pharonic bodyguards of Ancient Egypt directly to him via a bunch of masters...blah, blah.

Back in the late eighties, early nineties I'd get these HUGE advertisment form letters from him, suggesting I buy his video.  A guy I know bought his tape and says it is HYSTERICAL it is so bad.

Now some of the people who studied with this guy have a web site (I can't find it now).  They appear to be doing JKD/Wing Chun or something.  My sense is that they really believe its all for real.

Totally bogus lineage.

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## Jay Bell

Speaking of fake Spec Op Ninja  

Ariticle by M.C. Busman:



> I've posted the below numerous times, and still for some reason, there are  innocent
> students who feel that they must be loyal to this man. I know it is hard  for some to admit to having been following someone dishonest, but the sooner you admit this, the sooner you will be able to come to terms with what you are learning. ~Please~ check the sources at the end of this post yourself--you will find that every one of them is sound. Dux has not been able to refute any of the evidence. I don't post these to gloat--I post them so that fellow martial artists will be able to ascertain the facts, without any middleman to add spin or alter the story in a brighter or dimmer light. The facts are the facts, I am just the messenger.
> 
> Here's something new I haven't posted before concerning Dux: the fact that at one time (over 10 years ago), he was telling people that he had kicked the posterior end of one Benny "The Jet" Urquidez. Benny, being more the man and diplomat and being rather compassionate, politely asked him to stop spreading this bald-faced lie. To my knowledge, Dux complied with the seasoned fighter's request. A martial friend close to Urquidez related recently that much of Dux's contrived drama had its basis in the real-life exploits of Urquidez, who once had a
> fighter in China tell him before a match that he would 'fight him to the death'! As any true professional, Urquidez was gracious to the man, whom he trounced, at the finish of the match, although the crowd apparently was screaming for him to Kill the loser, or the Chinese version of that. . .If you are a student of Frank Dux, ask him if he knows Benny "The Jet". I'd like to hear what Dux has to say about this. That aside, I know that Dux was in for brain surgery a few years ago, and is in lousy shape. You might want to consider that some of this man's behavior might be related to his condition or a related chemical imbalance. Treat him with
> compassion, but for crying out loud, don't get sucked into his crazy game! You simply cannot overcome the evidence. Dux is what he is. Read on:
> 
> In May of 1988, John Johnson of the Los Angeles Times ran an expose of Frank Dux and his numerous lies. He showed once and for all that Dux has never been  in any international "Kumite", or any tournament at all, for that matter. His trophy, which he had supposedly won in the Bahamas, had been manufactured in North Hollywood by the W.R. Moody Co. This is not far from Dux's home town of Woodland Hills. Dux also claimed that these supposed secret fights had been  hosted by an organization called the "International Fighting Arts Association", a group which reporter Johnson said led only back to Dux himself! The most
> damning thing about Dux though, even if one were to overlook his lies about  having a secret ninja teacher named Senzo Tanaka (Tanaka, like in James Bond  films--no evidence of such a person in the US or Japan has ever been uncovered), rescued boatloads of orphans, or set any kind of martial arts speed record (he didn't), is the fact that Dux has lied about his military career.
> 
> Frank Dux fabricated phony newspaper articles, one from the Washington Star, which painted him as some sort of military hero. When Johnson checked with the archives of the 'Star, they told him no such article existed--another bold fake! In Fact, Dux's records show he never even left the Continental US, and in the words of Johnson, "His only known war injury occurred when he fell off a truck he was painting in the motor pool"(1988,4). Johnson also writes that; "His military medical file. . .said that on Jan. 22, 1978, he was referred for
> psychiatric evaluation for expressing "flighty and disconnected ideas." Though as a  member of the reserves, which meant he was on active duty only a short time, he  reportedly insisted that he was working for an intelligence agency." (1988:2)
> 
> Dux also made the blunder of mixing up Army and Marine awards on his uniform, ~none~ of which were legitimately his. He even claimed to have been secretly awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor by Congress! Now, if you think hundreds of members of congress can keep any sort of secret, you're really crazy! But Dux is somehow convinced people will buy his lies. He doesn't realize, or denies to himself that his tall tales hurt real veterans, those who actually paid the price for our nation while he was a youngster fantasizing about playing spy  games.
> 
> Dux's Book, "The Secret Man" is also completely contrived. Soldier of Fortune did an expose on this fictional work of his, and debunked his bogus military claims once and for all. The August 1996 issue included a review called "Full Mental Jacket". The title of the article alone should let you know what real military men  think of his stories. SOF mentioned this loser again in the Nov. 1998 issue in an article by Larry Bailey entitled "Stolen Valor: Profiles of a Phony-Hunter". Dux is shown wearing his incorrectly displayed and mixed Army and Marine Medals! The book "Stolen Valor" by B.G. Burkett is over 700 pages long, and is devoted to unmasking military fakes--he devotes 4 pages to Dux's fakery, debunking his hollow claims once and for all.
> 
> If your still in doubt about this psychopathic clown, check out Court TV online for a recounting of his exaggerations and subsequent loss in court to Van Damme in a lawsuit last year.
> 
> It is a fact. Frank Dux is a Lying phony who has profited from gulliability and thesacrifices of truly honorable people. Don't just take my word--research the sources below for yourself:
> 
> Bailey, Larry. (1998). "Stolen Valor: Profiles of a Phony-Hunter", in Soldier of  Fortune. November 1998, 58-61, 73. [SOF backissues available online from SOF website]
> 
> Burkett, B.G. (1998). Stolen Valor. Verity Press, TX. [should be available online. check www.stolenvalor.com)
> 
> Court TV Online. (1999). "Frank Dux v. Jean Claude Van Damme". Link to: http://www.courttv.com/trials/vandam/index.html
> 
> Johnson, John. (1988). "Ninja: Hero or Master Fake?", Los Angeles Times Valley Edition, Metro Section Part 2, pg 4. May 1, 1988. [call LA Timesarchives at 1800-788-8804 for your copy--runs about 10 bucks, and they take credit cards]
> 
> Soldier of Fortune. (1996). "Full Mental Jacket". August 1996.
> 
> Happy Hunting.
> M.C. Busman




For more info on Frank Dux:  

Temple of Truth


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## hardheadjarhead

Its difficult to say how much compassion we should have for guys like this.  So many of them are seriously disturbed...but that doesn't necessarily mean we should feel sorry for them.  They can be pretty pathetic, but they can be very manipulative.

Psychopaths will LIE to anyone and be anything to anybody.  They can be extremely dangerous.  

My guess is that the typical liar in the martial arts isn't that far gone...but would qualify for a diagnosis of Anti-social Personality Disorder.  This used to be called "sociopathy", of which psychopathy is a dangerous subset.  

Correct me if I'm wrong here...we have to have a psychiatrist somewhere on this forum, right?

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## NYCRonin

How much sympathy should we have? Little to none, in my opinion. They would not find it in any other profession or vocation.
In particular, if they 'put out a shingle' and begin to 'teach'. Imagine the repercussions when the AMA finds out. Too learned a comparison? Try faking Teamster qualifications and show up at a union shop. Not good for ones health.
We always should remain vigilant - these guys affect many lives other than their own and tarninsh all legitamate practitioners.

Dux? A favorite wacko---back in the early 80's, I remember that he had made a death threat to the most prominant ninjitsu personality in the U.S. ---and threatened his family also. The threat was something the 'community' kept quiet but considered it
potentially dangerous. The instructors wife was escourted in her daily affairs...students looking out for trouble.

The matter was 'settled privately' later that year and Dux was no longer considered a point of concern.


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## Touch Of Death

I was in the special ops section of the signal corp. I'm not supposed to talk about it. 25p


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## Phil Elmore

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> Anybody up on Hikuda?
> 
> This stuff was marketed by a guy calling himself Doc Lee.  It supposedly was passed down from the Pharonic bodyguards of Ancient Egypt directly to him via a bunch of masters...blah, blah.
> 
> Back in the late eighties, early nineties I'd get these HUGE advertisment form letters from him, suggesting I buy his video.  A guy I know bought his tape and says it is HYSTERICAL it is so bad.
> 
> Now some of the people who studied with this guy have a web site (I can't find it now).  They appear to be doing JKD/Wing Chun or something.  My sense is that they really believe its all for real.
> 
> Totally bogus lineage.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Scott



http://www.philelmore.com/martial/hikutahand.htm

http://www.philelmore.com/martial/hikutavideo.htm

http://www.dolfzine.com/page690.htm


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## hardheadjarhead

Oooh, goody.

Thanks, Phil!

If I find that web site belinging to his students, I'll post it.  I must have bookmarked it somewhere. 

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## hardheadjarhead

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *Oooh, goody.
> 
> Thanks, Phil!
> 
> If I find that web site belinging to his students, I'll post it.  I must have bookmarked it somewhere.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve Scott *




BELONGING.  Not belinging.

Gad, I hate it when I spell things wrong.  Sorry.  That may be a bit OCD of me.

SCS


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by hardheadjarhead _
> *BELONGING.  Not belinging.
> 
> Gad, I hate it when I spell things wrong.  Sorry.  That may be a bit OCD of me.
> 
> SCS *



Steve,

If it is less than one hour from the time of your post, you as the poster can click on the edit button and correct any spelling mistakes you have made. Being OCD myself, I understand.  :asian:


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## Phil Elmore

Hikuta Forum


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## NYCRonin

Mr. Elmore,
   I see that 'Phil Sharp' is listed in a thread on that sight as a 'doubter'...man, what clowns.


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## Kempo Guy

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "Ashida Kim" of ninjutsu fame nor "John Lovret" (of Tenshin ryu and Yamate ryu).

KG


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## NYCRonin

Ah, so many 'weasels' to slap...so little time!
Kempo Guy...I am sure we will get to them in the forum. Clip a number to their collar and join in.
After we have 'done the Dux' - we can do them next!


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## Shadow Hunter

www.phonyveterans.com/Gyi.html 

www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies117.htm 

I know a guy who convinced one of his students into a sparring match. The guy was not supposed to since the techniques the Bando guys are "too dangerous" to spar with. Gyi's student got his head handed to him.


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## Phil Elmore

I know a guy who thinks he can defeat any knife fighter.  He can't wait to tell you all about it, either.  :lol:


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## hardheadjarhead

Rich wrote: 

If it is less than one hour from the time of your post, you as the poster can click on the edit button and correct any spelling mistakes you have made. Being OCD myself, I understand.  


Thanks Rich.  I didn't know I could do that.  

Now...what can I do about my compulsive handwashing?  


Regards,

Steve Scott


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## hardheadjarhead

Phil put the Hikuta Forum link...I got these web sites off of it.

http://hikutacombatsystems.com/

http://www.cutting-edge-combat.com/main.html

On the forum there was this post...which I think is someone having fun with this whole thing...this has to be tongue in cheek:

"hikuta is by far the most devistating of the arts out there on the free market. It is purely instinctive therefore one can learn the physical parts of it in 20 minutes. I've taken out 2 groups of nine men in less than 5 seconds per group with the utilization of hikuta. One good solid hit with the loose hand and your opponent will not get back off the ground. I was totally surprised and shocked at this in my first fight. the thing is that hikuta is so deadly you CAN NOT use it to spar with. this is not a sport fighting thing we are useing here it is pure deadly combat. DOK LEE was a wonderful man for teaching the world this secret ancient art that would have gone on missing for centries more if he had not spoken out and sold that video back in 1993. KUTA is the name for the art taught to the warriors school who protected the pharohes. Kuta basically means school of the fighting fist or way of the fist. all martial arts (yes, even the orient) can be traced back to ancient Egypt. One can see how the the lingual has followed over the millenneiums as kuta has migrated to kwan do. But the roots of kuta was past down thru the years and was advanced upon and became HIkuta. this art which Dok Lee demenstarates purely shows what one can do if the time and plce came right and you just react and defend your self or a loved one . its at this piont you will find that knowledge does replace fear." 


If it isn't tongue in cheek, this has GOT to be the most schizophrenic style ever taught.

Point to consider...it strikes me that most frauds claim to teach legitimate arts.  Some teach "their own styles", others teach systems like this...but the majority want to give the impression of fitting into the mainstream.

Anybody disagree with that?

Regards,

Steve Scott


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## rmcrobertson

I thought it was a great site, and beautiful nonsense----unless they've just got a truly unfortunate way of expressing themselves, and the unlikely reality is that they actually know what they're doing. 

And I encourage anybody interested to immediately become a student of Hikuta. I mean, if I ever have to get into a fight with a martial artist, I want it to be an incompetent one. Preferably, from an art that claims to be, "easy to learn."

There are a couple of interesting things about this guff, though. One, the extremely silly sites like this ought to be taken as a warning against our own guff, our own silliness. Second, the misunderstanding of other arts serves as a warning about our own misunderstanding. And last, it's interesting that Hikuta claims to go back to Egypt, given the sorts of claims made by some Afrocentrists about the origins of martial arts over the last ten years...

Other'n that though, I loved the tough-guy pictures--and the way that once again, they dragged the SEALS into it, asserted expertise in all sorts of arts, and didn't fail to tell us about their head's (in what discipline, I wonder?) PhD...always good signs of phonies.


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## hardheadjarhead

Looks like one of these guys was "outed" here on MartialTalk when he started the thread "can we all just get along".  His name is "Hapki-Bujustsu".  

He joined an association that recognized his rank (worth clicking around the site for that info-its pretty sad)...his bio and "credentials" are here.

http://www.aamacua.fcpages.com/journal.htm

Note that the "student" writing the bio and credential sheet also writes very much like Hapki-Bujutsu/Young.  Same difficulty with spelling, same general style and tone.  I suspect they're one person and part of a myth he's attempting to construct.

He's been silent for the past day...I think he was chased off the forum.


Regards,

Steve Scott


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## hapki-bujutsu

this is basicly about sour grapes. I said somthing I had no right to say about tkd. I upset him ALOT. I said a was sorry but it went unaccpeted. I have emailed the moderators on this post. You now have crossed over into slander. You can hate that I teach a modern combat art if you want but to say I am a lier is upsetting to me as a chrsitian and a person. You have the right to feel my art is uneffective because it is old and not new but no right to make this statment. It is sad you are filled with such rage.


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## Bob Hubbard

*Admin Note:*
Thread moved to Horror Stories forum.

Thread temporarily locked pending moderator review.


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