# Density



## Clive (Oct 17, 2003)

In the film Master of Fighting with Mikhail Ryabko, there is a section at the Denver seminar in which Vladimir shows some Psychic energy work. In this he says that when you touch the guys chest density comes, then all you do is take this away. Can anyone explain what he means by this?

Clive


----------



## Ender (Oct 17, 2003)

Luke..it is your density


sorry..couldn't resist


----------



## Jackal (Oct 18, 2003)

Density (i.e. tension) comes to the chest either through fear-reactivity or from man's innate desire to find support. This tends to leave the rest of the body empty.


----------



## NYCRonin (Oct 18, 2003)

Density is also a form of muscular tension - an opposition to force or pressure being exerted on an opponent.
There is also the density of the mind - an overdetermination to express a particular method or technique.
Density is many things.


----------



## Clive (Oct 18, 2003)

I see now, it is the same as when Mikhail puts the hand on the guys chest in Beyond the physical, moving the guy using the tension.


----------



## pknox (Oct 18, 2003)

It would be interesting to see what parallels can be drawn between the concept of "density" in RMA and that of "chi/ki" in the asian arts.  

It seems like the concepts are similar, as they both deal with manifestations of internal energy.  But based on the comments here, it sounds like in this case you are manipulating the density of the other practitioner. In the asian arts, it seems the emphasis is on manipulation your own chi/ki.  I haven't seen any references in asian arts to manipulating anyone else's chi/ki, but it may very well exist.  Is it possible to manipulate your own density as well?


----------



## Arthur (Oct 18, 2003)

Density=consciousness 

Arthur


----------



## pknox (Oct 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Arthur _
> *Density=consciousness
> 
> Arthur *



Very interesting.  That is also the word a yoga practitioner often uses to define prana, or an internal MAist chi or ki.  Is it possible to manipulate your own density as well as that of others?  If so, in RMA, is more emphasis placed on the former or the latter?


----------



## jellyman (Oct 19, 2003)

pknox

In systema we strive to keep our awareness consistent throughout our bodies. Tension is a symptom of concentration of awareness. Since it is to our advantage when the opponent has tension, we strive to manipulate or at least perceive where the awareness is, and exploit it if it is uneven.


----------



## David (Oct 19, 2003)

Pknox-

Manipulating density in others -

-Look someone in the eye for a while, and then start looking intently at their chest.  Wind up with your right arm for a boxing punch, and hit them in the throat with your left hand, as your left arm rises during the wind up.

-Look behind someone.

-Look at someone's crotch and start laughing hysterically.

There, you just manipulated the other person's density - made his chest or crotch or side facing the "fake threat" behind him dense.  Why?  Because he noticed you looking there/winding up, and then you hit him where he was hollow.

Manipulating density in yourself -

-Don't stare at your opponent
-Don't make your body react to his 'fakes' and non committed attacks or psychological cues.

And that was density 1-0-1 with Systema Newbie Dave.

-David


----------



## pknox (Oct 19, 2003)

Ah, I see.  Excellent stuff!  In some of the asian internal arts, such as aikido or taiji, there are similar concepts to what you mentioned, jellyman.  A practitioner strives to keep chi flowing through all parts of his/her body, and avoid having disruptions of the flow of chi (akin to "tension").  Ideally, at higher levels of practice, a practitioner can focus their chi on a specific area of their body so as to momentarily strengthen it (i.e. focus chi on the hand and arm when blocking a strike).

It seems that Systema also adds the interesting variable of manipulating someone else's energy as well.  Extremely cool, and, at least to me, more applicable.  For all I know, asian arts do this as well, but not at the beginning.  The fact that Systema includes this relatively early, and couples it with a type of "awareness training" makes it a more practical application in my eyes.  

David -- many of the techniques you describe seem to be almost a psychological phase of combat.  I wonder if it is possible for someone to attempt to manipulate someone's density without knowing it?  In grappling, I have often deliberately stared at a specific part of another person's body, in an effort to get them to defend that spot, so I can attack a different part unimpeded (I think that is similar to the JKD concept of attacking by drawing, but I am not sure).  A typical example would be, while in a typical stand-up hold (i.e. hands on elbow and lapel), staring directly at the person's eyes, neck or shoulders and then executing a leg sweep.  Would a deliberate feint then be a sort of density manipulation as well?  You would be drawing attention to one part, while deliberately attacking another.  While the first one you mention seems to be a physical manipulation, the other two seem to be mental/psychological.  Sometimes mislabeled by people as "dirty tricks", actions like the ones you mentioned often give someone the opportunity to strike first in a streetfight, which is often a pretty distinct advantage.

By the way, the crotch laugh one...I'm guessing that is especially damaging to the victim's density if done by his wife or girlfriend.


----------

