# Cop w/ Taser 1,  Perp w/machete 0



## Carol (May 6, 2010)

A 50 year old nutcase locks his female roommate out of their apartment, then pulls a machete on the cops that tried to talk to him and straighten the situation out.

This could have ended a lot of ways, other than...


> No one was injured.



http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news...fs-machete-in-mans-alleged-confrontation.html

A job well done by the Hudson PD :asian:


----------



## KenpoTex (May 7, 2010)

Whether it was a "job well done," or "just f-ing lucky" due an inappropriate level of force (too _little_ force for the threat) depends on what they meant by "confronted the police with a machete."

But, quibbling aside...I'm glad no innocent parties were harmed.


----------



## Carol (May 7, 2010)

*shrug*

Post a bad cop story, people complain.

Post a good cop story, people complain.

Tough crowd.


----------



## bushidomartialarts (May 7, 2010)

That's the whole purpose of tasers and like equipment, though, isn't it? To allow a police officer to take the machete-wielding jackass down for standing there with a machete. Without tasers, a lot of departments would make the cops wait until he charged before firing guns.

I wasn't there. I don't know. But I'm not in the habit of saying a cop did his job wrong based on a forum post or a newspaper article.

Just my three cents.


----------



## Drac (May 7, 2010)

Carol said:


> *shrug*
> 
> Post a bad cop story, people complain.
> 
> ...


 
Its an everyday occurance with us in law enforcement..Glad no one was hurt..


----------



## jks9199 (May 7, 2010)

bushidomartialarts said:


> That's the whole purpose of tasers and like equipment, though, isn't it? To allow a police officer to take the machete-wielding jackass down for standing there with a machete. Without tasers, a lot of departments would make the cops wait until he charged before firing guns.
> 
> I wasn't there. I don't know. But I'm not in the habit of saying a cop did his job wrong based on a forum post or a newspaper article.
> 
> Just my three cents.


No -- the Taser is a less-lethal force option.  Things worked out well here, and it could have had a place in a PLANNED approach with lethal back-up ready.  But, as a general rule, less-lethal force options are not appropriate for handling lethal threats anymore than it would be appropriate to shoot someone for an insult.  The whole goal of police use of force is to effectively control the suspect doing minimum harm and without getting hurt themselves.  Too little force won't achieve that control; too much force leads to too much "control"... and injuries.  Control is relative to the situation: getting a crowd of loiterers to move is different from dispersing a crowd on the verge of a riot, and handling a compliant subject is different from handling a guy with a machete.


----------



## KenpoTex (May 7, 2010)

bushidomartialarts said:


> I wasn't there. I don't know. But I'm not in the habit of saying a cop did his job wrong based on a forum post or a newspaper article.



I wasn't there either...which is why I didn't say that that the situation was handled incorrectly.  I was merely alluding to the fact that just as "unreasonable force" can mean using excessive force, it can also mean using too little force.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (May 20, 2010)

bushidomartialarts said:


> That's the whole purpose of tasers and like equipment, though, isn't it? To allow a police officer to take the machete-wielding jackass down for standing there with a machete. Without tasers, a lot of departments would make the cops wait until he charged before firing guns.
> 
> I wasn't there. I don't know. But I'm not in the habit of saying a cop did his job wrong based on a forum post or a newspaper article.
> 
> Just my three cents.


 
It can be applied in those situations, but ONLY with good lethal force cover.  The Taser is not and has never been advertised as a substitute for lethal force.  It's not reliable enough, and is hence in appropriate as a substitute.

That having been said, where it can be applied to save a life, without risking innocent life, it's a plus any day.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (May 20, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> I wasn't there either...which is why I didn't say that that the situation was handled incorrectly. I was merely alluding to the fact that just as "unreasonable force" can mean using excessive force, it can also mean using too little force.


 
And that's exactly right.  'Excessive' force complaints get all the attention, because it can result in a suspect getting unnecessarily hurt.

But the reality is that the other end of the spectrum, though not as sensational on the surface, can actually be more dangerous.........as it can get INNOCENT PEOPLE hurt and killed.

An officer must make good judgments about the level of force necessary in any given situation........and too little force is every bit as much of a problem as too much.

But, as I said, the Taser is a tool that can, when properly applied, save a life, so long as the task of saving the suspects life doesn't endanger the lives of the public or officers.  The suspect is third on the list of priorities.


----------



## MJS (May 20, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> Whether it was a "job well done," or "just f-ing lucky" due an inappropriate level of force (too _little_ force for the threat) depends on what they meant by "confronted the police with a machete."
> 
> But, quibbling aside...I'm glad no innocent parties were harmed.


 
Good point.  Then again, if the cop had shot the person, and he would've been justified in doing so, I'm sure some of the bleeding hearts club members, would be crying foul, and wondering why the cop didn't use a taser.


----------



## Carol (May 20, 2010)

Well...I'm a bit biased, and I wasn't there, but...



> Bourgeois, 50, faces one count of criminal threatening and was released  on personal recognizance bail. He is slated to be arraigned at Nashua  District Court on May 13.


Now, I'm not an expert, but if I think if the perp was physically trying to hurt a LEO or anyone else, he'd get socked with something a lot worse than criminal threatening, and have bail a lot higher than "See ya then".  

Was this truly luck/political correctness? Or well-trained officers handling a bad situation appropriately?  

I vote the latter. :idunno:


----------



## sgtmac_46 (May 20, 2010)

Carol said:


> Well...I'm a bit biased, and I wasn't there, but...
> 
> Now, I'm not an expert, but if I think if the perp was physically trying to hurt a LEO or anyone else, he'd get socked with something a lot worse than criminal threatening, and have bail a lot higher than "See ya then".
> 
> ...


 
Not enough information to tell what it was.........but criminal threatening would be the charge unless he actually made contact with someone with the weapon. It really doesn't tell us anything about the situation leading up to the use of the Taser.

I'm not criticizing the officers, but from a tactical point of view I don't have enough information to determine if what was done is what should be recommended to be done or not.  There are a lot of factors and variables required to determine that....

Suspect Behavior
Proximity
Lethal Force Cover
Presence of barriers/cover
Positioning of Suspect relative of Officers


----------



## sgtmac_46 (May 20, 2010)

MJS said:


> Good point. Then again, if the cop had shot the person, and he would've been justified in doing so, I'm sure some of the bleeding hearts club members, would be crying foul, and wondering why the cop didn't use a taser.


 
They would, but the simple answer is this........a Machete is a HIGHER level of force than a Taser.

A lethal weapon is any weapon, used in the manner it's being used, is likely to cause death or serious physical injury. A taser is a low level of force. A small sword is a very high level lethal weapon.

To complicate matters a Taser is a one shot device with the overall reliability of a cell phone or other complicated electronic device with parts prone to failure. It's been my experience that a Taser, overall, is about 75% effective, when you factor in cartridge malfunctions, probe misses, and close probe spreads.





 
Now, the guy that got Tasered in the above video was able, apparently due to a close spread probe hit, to resist the effects of the Taser and assault the officer.  What would the outcome have been if he had a Machette?  Dead officer.


----------



## CoryKS (May 20, 2010)

I just don't understand the mentality of people who try to take on the police in a fight, like the police are going to take a step back and say, "well damn, guess he really means it".  

They have backup, weapons, dogs, tazers, and frickin' _helicopters_... and you have a machete.  How is that going to end?  Reminds me of the Ron White joke - "I didn't know how many of them it would have taken to whup my ***, but I knew how many they were gonna use."


----------



## sgtmac_46 (May 20, 2010)

CoryKS said:


> I just don't understand the mentality of people who try to take on the police in a fight, like the police are going to take a step back and say, "well damn, guess he really means it".
> 
> They have backup, weapons, dogs, tazers, and frickin' _helicopters_... and you have a machete. How is that going to end? Reminds me of the Ron White joke - "I didn't know how many of them it would have taken to whup my ***, but I knew how many they were gonna use."


 
Too true........the reality, however, is that there a lot of folks out there with the mentality to do just exactly that.


----------

