# Wing Chun and Knee Support



## Transk53 (Mar 29, 2017)

Would like some oppions on knee supports if possible. Before I go ahead and buy one, do any of you peeps use a knee support with brace while practicing and if it inhibits stance? If not one with a brace, any other recommendations. Used to have a neoprene support, but frankly thought if felt more cosmetic sort of thing, rather than being useful.


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## wingerjim (Mar 29, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Would like some oppions on knee supports if possible. Before I go ahead and buy one, do any of you peeps use a knee support with brace while practicing and if it inhibits stance? If not one with a brace, any other recommendations. Used to have a neoprene support, but frankly thought if felt more cosmetic sort of thing, rather than being useful.


Sure, I have used a wrap like an Ace bandage when my knee hurts. This just occurred for the first time last fall when my left knee began to bother me in the WC stance. I actually rehabed it riding a bicycle and using dit da jaw and found the pain was eliminated to the point I no longer needed the wrap. I have seen others use those elastic braces that still allow for a lot of freedom of movement.


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## geezer (Mar 29, 2017)

Personally I don't know how much structural support things like ace wraps, elastic, and neoprene supports give. I suppose it depends on your injury/problem. Some have that little hole to help align the patella. Perhaps that helps. I suffer from knee and ankle problems myself and often wear a simple elastic fabric brace. If nothing else, it acts as a reminder to be careful. Also helps if I drop down on one knee or go to the mat.

Now as far as the heavy-duty, metal-reinforced and hinged braces go, I haven't had to wear one for years since I was recovering from my last surgery. But they really shouldn't be a problem for joint mobility in VT/WC/WT. Sure, that kind of brace is intended to restrict your knee mobility to a safe range, but then your  VT/WC movements should be kept within that safe range anyway.

A greater problem might be the possible damage you could cause to your training partner with a metal-reinforced brace. On the other hand, that opens up a whole new marketing opportunity for a "Mad Max" line of tactical braces complete with studs, spikes and brackets for weapons attachment. The imagination reels with the possibilities!


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## Transk53 (Mar 29, 2017)

geezer said:


> Personally I don't know how much structural support things like ace wraps, elastic, and neoprene supports give. I suppose it depends on your injury/problem. Some have that little hole to help align the patella. Perhaps that helps. I suffer from knee and ankle problems myself and often wear a simple elastic fabric brace. If nothing else, it acts as a reminder to be careful. Also helps if I drop down on one knee or go to the mat.
> 
> Now as far as the heavy-duty, metal-reinforced and hinged braces go, I haven't had to wear one for years since I was recovering from my last surgery. But they really shouldn't be a problem for joint mobility in VT/WC/WT. Sure, that kind of brace is intended to restrict your knee mobility to a safe range, but then your  VT/WC movements should be kept within that safe range anyway.
> 
> A greater problem might be the possible damage you could cause to your training partner with a metal-reinforced brace. On the other hand, that opens up a whole new marketing opportunity for a "Mad Max" line of tactical braces complete with studs, spikes and brackets for weapons attachment. The imagination reels with the possibilities!



The one I have looked at initially just has brace support on the side knee length, so shouldn't be an issue for a partner. The range does help obviously, but I am maybe looking at an op. In the early stage of getting it checked. Not sure about studs though, but maybe a K.I.T.T flashy thing would look cool


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## DanT (Mar 29, 2017)

What's causing the knee pain? Also how much do you point your feet in for YGKYM? I know people who have hurt their knees because they angle their feet in as much as 45 degrees.


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## Transk53 (Mar 29, 2017)

DanT said:


> What's causing the knee pain? Also how much do you point your feet in for YGKYM? I know people who have hurt their knees because they angle their feet in as much as 45 degrees.



Not sure until further tests are done. At the moment the likely one would be a floater, as the the pain is intermittent. However, as laying in bed can set it off could be ligament. As for YGKYM, I am in at the correct angle as Sifu has not had to do that much correction on that. I am only for years of 50, so age is likely the biggest factor. What goes around, comes around for all of us some point.


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## anerlich (Mar 29, 2017)

I had a problem knee for which I ended up having a successful arthroscopy about ten years ago. I'm 62 now.

I never found a particularly satisfactory knee brace. While it is a bit tedious and annoying, I found strapping my knee with athletic tape was a far better solution.

Sports Taping | Video demonstrations

If you need an operation, don't delay it. After mine healed, I kicked myself for waiting as long as I did.


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## geezer (Mar 29, 2017)

anerlich said:


> ...After mine healed, *I kicked myself *for waiting as long as I did.



The op must have gone well, because _that _takes flexibility!


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## anerlich (Mar 29, 2017)

geezer said:


> The op must have gone well, because _that _takes flexibility!



It did go well. It's very slightly tighter than the other knee now, but only indicated by a slight pressure inside the joint when fully flexed. It actually feels stronger than the other knee.


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## anerlich (Mar 29, 2017)

DanT said:


> What's causing the knee pain? Also how much do you point your feet in for YGKYM? I know people who have hurt their knees because they angle their feet in as much as 45 degrees.



Not discounting your experience, but I've yet to meet anyone who ended up with bad knees because of their stance.

Grappling arts, judo in particular, seem to leave WC in the dust with their propensity for knee damage. Jiu Jitsu seems to chew up a knee every now and then as well.


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## Transk53 (Mar 30, 2017)

anerlich said:


> I had a problem knee for which I ended up having a successful arthroscopy about ten years ago. I'm 62 now.
> 
> I never found a particularly satisfactory knee brace. While it is a bit tedious and annoying, I found strapping my knee with athletic tape was a far better solution.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I will look into that today. Is the knee you had op still good?


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## anerlich (Mar 30, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Thanks. I will look into that today. Is the knee you had op still good?



Yeah, all good. I only had an arthroscopy to fix a torn meniscus, which is at the lower end of the spectrum of complexity. Replacing an ACL, for example, is a whole other level of complexity and you are talking around 8 months or more to recover rather than the 5-6 weeks it took me.

I walked from my hospital bed to the car. Went back to work in a few days. Had to walk about a mile and a half in a week to get to the doctor's surgery for review. Had exercises ot do but nothing much really. Managed to slow jog a mile after about three weeks and ran two miles at normal pace on flat ground after another two. Was back wrestling in 5 weeks.

I know a guy who rehabbed his knee with doctor's begrudging approval, mostly trout fishing on sand in very cold water - the water replaces ice, the sand an unstable surface - and was back training in ten days. He's a full time professional instructor and as hardcore AF though. Plus he's had several subsequent knee operations. Still going hard though, and turning 60 this year.

This is about ACL's but good value for anyone considering knee surgery:

Torn ACL Info for BJJ / MMA / Judo / Grapplers FAQ (ver 1.2) - Grapplearts


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## DanT (Mar 30, 2017)

anerlich said:


> Not discounting your experience, but I've yet to meet anyone who ended up with bad knees because of their stance.
> 
> Grappling arts, judo in particular, seem to leave WC in the dust with their propensity for knee damage. Jiu Jitsu seems to chew up a knee every now and then as well.


Yes judo does take its toll on the knees for sure. The reason why I mentioned the stance is some people have the habit of standing and moving with their feet contorted inwards at angles greater than 30 degrees which puts a lot of stress on the MCL and LCL.


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## geezer (Mar 30, 2017)

DanT said:


> Yes judo does take its toll on the knees for sure. The reason why I mentioned the stance is some people have the habit of standing and moving with their feet contorted inwards at angles greater than 30 degrees which puts a lot of stress on the MCL and LCL.



One reason why, as like Anerlich I too move into my early 60s, I favor a less extreme inward rotation of the knees and feet.


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## Transk53 (Mar 30, 2017)

geezer said:


> One reason why, as like Anerlich I too move into my early 60s, I favor a less extreme inward rotation of the knees and feet.



So there is a pensioner stance?


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## anerlich (Mar 30, 2017)

TWC and some other lineages (HFY IIRC) use a stance with the feet parallel.


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## geezer (Mar 30, 2017)

anerlich said:


> TWC and some other lineages (HFY IIRC) use a stance with the feet parallel.



I'm so duck-footed that when my feet are parallel, my knees turn in at the typical 60 degree angle of most Ip Man WC! 

Unfortunately, that means that when I'm in a low horse, like when working with the long pole, my feet are splayed at a very wide angle. And because I have bone fusions, that's not something that will change with training. People just think I have bad form.


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## KPM (Apr 27, 2017)

geezer said:


> Personally I don't know how much structural support things like ace wraps, elastic, and neoprene supports give. I suppose it depends on your injury/problem. Some have that little hole to help align the patella. Perhaps that helps. I suffer from knee and ankle problems myself and often wear a simple elastic fabric brace. If nothing else, it acts as a reminder to be careful. Also helps if I drop down on one knee or go to the mat.
> 
> Now as far as the heavy-duty, metal-reinforced and hinged braces go, I haven't had to wear one for years since I was recovering from my last surgery. But they really shouldn't be a problem for joint mobility in VT/WC/WT. Sure, that kind of brace is intended to restrict your knee mobility to a safe range, but then your  VT/WC movements should be kept within that safe range anyway.
> 
> A greater problem might be the possible damage you could cause to your training partner with a metal-reinforced brace. On the other hand, that opens up a whole new marketing opportunity for a "Mad Max" line of tactical braces complete with studs, spikes and brackets for weapons attachment. The imagination reels with the possibilities!



Geezer is absolutely right.  The various knee sleeve supports available don't really do anything to stabilize and protect the joint.  They function to trap some heat, provide some level of pain relief due to compression, and to remind you not to overdo it!  The only braces that provide any real level of stabilization are the ones reinforced by metal side supports with hinges.  And even they don't go a great job.


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## Bino TWT (Aug 5, 2017)

I have torn ligaments in both knees. I use the hinged knee braces that you can get from Wal-Mart pharmacy for $20, with a compression sleeve under them. The ones with the extra velcro straps are the best imho because they tighen up really good and tend to stay in place.


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