# Is Sambo a good base for Judo?



## KyleShort (Oct 7, 2004)

Hi All,

I have no judo experience, although I have read several books and know the rules, techniques and terminology.  Also, I have several years experience in the striking arts and a few years of grappling, throwing and ukemi in the bujinkan (I know the are huge differences between bujinkan and Judo).

Anyway, I have always been interested in training judo as a complement to my primary striking arts, but the closest school is 45 minutes away and that just won't work with my current schedule.  However, I now have the opportunity to regularly train in Sambo and I was wondering if there would be value in doing so.  Would training in Sambo give me a good base to work from later on when I am able to take up Judo?

I don't know nearly as much about Sambo as I do about Judo, but I have heard that they are similar...perhaps more emphasis on newaza (especially leglocks) in Sambo.

Thanks in advance,


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## bignick (Oct 7, 2004)

sambo is a good art...and i don't see why you couldn't use it as your supplement for your striking...instead of using it as a stepping stone to judo...stick with it and see what it has to offer


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## KyleShort (Oct 7, 2004)

Thanks for your thoughts!

Every art has it's merits, but my interests are more holistic.  I have studied(scholastically) Judo to a good degree and I have a strong desire to train in it, which is partially rooted in my interests in Japanese budo (aren't we all). To an even greater degree I love the simplicity of Judo, and therin lies the rich complexity of the art.  I have no such interest in the cultural foundations of Sambo.  

So what I do wonder is whether or not there is a strong translations of techniques, body mechanics and concepts between the two arts.


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## bignick (Oct 7, 2004)

you may want to pick up Vladimir Putin's book Judo: History, Theory, Practice...it's a good judo book and he talks a bit about some self defense aspects of combat sambo...what he has in his book reminds me more of my jujutsu training than my judo...

maybe you could talk to the instructor of the sambo school and see if you can try a class or two and watch some advanced classes to see what you'll learn and what they teach as you progress...that could give a better idea of how it would transition to judo


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## newfnshow (Oct 11, 2004)

KyleShort said:
			
		

> however, I now have the opportunity to regularly train in Sambo and I was wondering if there would be value in doing so.  Would training in Sambo give me a good base to work from later on when I am able to take up Judo?



Just curious where you will be learning Sambo? I'm in Elk Grove and while doing an internet search, the closest place was in Auburn.


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## KyleShort (Oct 13, 2004)

Private instructor friend of mine.  I tried to convince him  to open a school, but he doesn't want to teach anyone.


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## RMACKD (Oct 13, 2004)

I would say give sambo a try. It might not be the best thing if you are in to budo philosophy but if you want to learn some grappling sambo will provide you with a good combo of judo and wrestling takedowns with good groundwork. You will also learn weapon defense and strikes if your teacher knows the combat part of sambo.


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## Steve Scott (Oct 13, 2004)

I encourage you to train in sambo.  Sambo and judo compliment each other very well.  I started judo in 1965 and took up sambo in 1976 and my judo improved dramatically.  Best of luck.
Steve Scott


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## KyleShort (Oct 13, 2004)

What I may end up doing also is taking the judo techniques as I have them in book form and try to apply them under the eye of a sambo instructor...I know it is not the same as judo, but it's probably better than nothing =)  And of course the sambo will be great to know.


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## auxprix (Oct 14, 2004)

KyleShort said:
			
		

> What I may end up doing also is taking the judo techniques as I have them in book form and try to apply them under the eye of a sambo instructor...I know it is not the same as judo, but it's probably better than nothing =) And of course the sambo will be great to know.


You may try this but I wouldn't recommend it.

You could get some results from apeing the techniques from books, but Judo manuveurs are much more about principles than techriques. The strength comes from Kazushi (setting off balance) and it's not something that can be shown in a photograph. It takes alot of practice. Your sambo experience will help, but the specifics (as I understand them) are much different.

I would recommend doing about 3 months of judo, and continuing if you like it. The three months should be enough to instill a couple of the important points in you, and then you could try moving on to the books. Take it from me, Judo is nearly impossible to pick up through reading.

Oh, and by the way. Sambo and Judo do complement eachother nicely, as they are two different approaches to the same subject. You could really surprise a sambo opponent with a quick leg sweep.


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## KyleShort (Oct 14, 2004)

auxprix,

This is exactly the kind of feedback that I was looking for.  Scholastically I am very familiar with Judo and concepts such as kuzushi etc.  The reason I started this thread is that a solid judo school is a little too far away for me to train at given my current schedule...so...

I do have an opportunity to train in sambo and what was wondering is whether or not sambo would train the same principles as judo.  Keep in mind that I am not looking to compliment judo with sambo, instead I want to jump into judo as soon as possible and I was hoping that sambo training would give me a leg up on the principles.

I understand that sambo compliments judo, probably in the same way that BJJ compliments judo...but I would never train in BJJ, thinking I was learning judo.  I was however hoping that I could train in sambo and be effectively learning judo at the same time...after all, I hear it all the time that Sambo is just a "russianized" judo.  Of course I have always been suspect of that notion, and from the responses on this thread it seems clear that though training in Sambo may teach me good sambo stuff, it won't teach me any judo.

I guess I can train at the local Danzan ryu dojo...I would learn a whole lot of extra stuff that I don't want, and different mechanics, but at least the underlying principles of throws like Osoto gari are the same in poth arts.


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## RMACKD (Oct 14, 2004)

Sambo and judo both share the Kuzushi principle. Sambo is a combo of judo, jujutsu, wrestling and soviet style of grappling. In the combat sambo part you will learn striking from various arts and weapon defense. Some judo schools in the U.S. seem to not pay much attention to ne-waza or pickups and thats why some judoka pick up sambo besides learning the combat part.


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## auxprix (Oct 14, 2004)

RMACKD said:
			
		

> Sambo and judo both share the Kuzushi principle. Sambo is a combo of judo, jujutsu, wrestling and soviet style of grappling. In the combat sambo part you will learn striking from various arts and weapon defense. Some judo schools in the U.S. seem to not pay much attention to ne-waza or pickups and thats why some judoka pick up sambo besides learning the combat part.


Yes, I know that the Kazushi factor does exist in Sambo, but it does not carry the same weight as Judo. The sambo that I've seen is much more power based with pickups and what-not. The Judo Kazushi is tailor made for specific techniques, so I still think that to do a decent Judo technique, you need to learn the basics from a Judo Sensei.


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## Shogun (Oct 14, 2004)

In the early olympic judo days, Sambo players would compete, knowing sambo itself would never become an olympic sport. Judoka had a tough time with them due to the unorthodox gripping methods. just something to ponder.


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## RMACKD (Oct 15, 2004)

auxprix said:
			
		

> Yes, I know that the Kazushi factor does exist in Sambo, but it does not carry the same weight as Judo. The sambo that I've seen is much more power based with pickups and what-not. The Judo Kazushi is tailor made for specific techniques, so I still think that to do a decent Judo technique, you need to learn the basics from a Judo Sensei.


Kuzushi plays a pretty big role in sambo. one of the founders of sambo was a judo blackbelt. But I do not see why you consider pickups and wrestling type techniques power based.


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## ace (Oct 15, 2004)

Go With The Sombo The Leg Submissions are Awsome
They allow More Grappling Than Judo.

They are Both Great Sports But If I was In Your Shoes I would Go With Sombo as long as The School is Legit


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi Kyle,

While I believe that Judo is the basis for all other martial arts, Sambo is as good an alternative as any.

In fact, you could get by just on Russian Sambo all by itself and totally satisfy your martial arts requirements.

But I just believe a strong back ground in Judo is going to help you for the rest of your martial arts career.


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## dosandojang (Nov 23, 2004)

They compliment eachother very well. It is truly sad, as Judo used to have ALL of the moves (and MORE) of Sambo (Sport and Comabt) before it became an Olympic Sport... 




Steve M. Arce
Do San Dojo
Hayastan Dojo


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