# About Kenpo Senior Council...



## IKCAMemberGary (Jun 19, 2002)

Over the years (I have been involved in Kenpo now for about 7 yrs), I have spoken with several "Seniors", most of them actual 1st Generation Parker black belts, and most 5th or above. There is a lot of history involved, going back to the beginning, and I have heard different perspectives from different Seniors about many different issues.

Having said that, wouldnt it be NICE to simply have those folks promoted to 7th to form the Kenpo Senior Council? I think it would be great, BUT, what purpose/service would the Council provide? I would say that many, if not all, of the 7ths out there still active are doing separate things. That being the case, would YOU be comfortable having someone else grade your student(s)? Or could the ego take a back seat? 

Maybe consider this: That the Kenpo Senior Council would ONLY exist to certify blackbelts. After all, even though there are folks doing things a bit different with each organization (like the IKCA, which I belong to), you can always tell KENPO. I was at a local studio one day and met up with two other Kenpo instructors, one a Tracy guy, the other a Ed Hutchinson guy (dont go there!). As the Tracy guy and I discussed Kenpo, the IKCA and the Tracy ways, there was a LOT of similarity between our techniques. Actually, the Ed Hutchinson guy didnt show me anything, so I cant comment on that.

So, the question is: Could it work? Could people forget the old days and what happened? Could they come together and get along for the arts sake, and the students sake?

Things that make you go... Hmmmmmmmm

By the way, I think this is my first post here. Good to see some familiar "faces"!

Gary


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 20, 2002)

But not one that has gone overlooked!  It truly is a labor of love and has been a work in progress.  I don't know if you know of the AKSC  American Kenpo Senior Council but here is the site......

www.aksc.org

We have since the beginning tried to get together in some fashion and to some degree it has been good but not good enough.  There have been many challenges and pitfalls.  You site several points that are difficult issues to approach certain individuals on.  We are working on a new look and updates that may just be what we need ..... since this is a difficult issue it will take time to perfect and configure so that we all benefit from it.  It is a good idea and a needed council in my opinion.

Feel Free to email me with comments and suggestions.

:asian:


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## Kirk (Jun 20, 2002)

WOW!  I'd never heard of this!  VERY COOL!

I must say I'm a bit surprised.  I've heard rumors (and some
facts told by the author) about some envy and politicing going
on about the comprisal of The Journey.  Some of what I heard
was arguing over who got "top billing" and why people were
there or not there.   I'm sure there's some seniors that didn't
want to partake in this collective, and maybe some that weren't
invited.  Has there been any arguing in this sense?  What about
a leader of the organization?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _*
> WOW!  I'd never heard of this!  VERY COOL!
> I must say I'm a bit surprised.  I've heard rumors (and some
> facts told by the author) about some envy and politicing going
> ...



As far as I am aware of in the Journey.... there was "never" any arguing over who got  top billing because there was not a "Top  Billing"!!!!!!  Tom Bleecker and Joe Hayms did a fantastic job to pull together this many Instructors and get their __NOW LISTEN CLOSELY -- "Journey Stories" and not who is better than who and who knew more than who and who sniffed Mr. Parker's underwear and all this kind of nonsense.   It was a book of human interest stories of where these particular people have been and events that occurred in their "Journey with Kenpo".  Some were not included due to not meeting the standard requirements that everyone had to follow.  You can't hold up a book of many for a few.   Tom Kelly - Joe Palanzo - and Ron Chap'el were three that didn't make it in for various reasons..... 
They are not any less than anyone else however, they did not get the required information or correct information in at appropriate times or simply did not respond to emails and phone calls like everyone else did and the deadline came.  But there was and is no arguing concerning this Book.

The AKSC leadership is together and always has been from the 1st Chairman Steve LaBounty to Tom Kelly to the current Bob White.  We all share the same vision but are wavering on how to execute and exactly what to do next....... You will see some advancement this year.

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jun 20, 2002)

How come you are on the AKSC Dennis if it is made up of the 7ths that Parker promoted?

Or did I miss something?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _*
> How come you are on the AKSC Dennis if it is made up of the 7ths that Parker promoted?  Or did I miss something?
> *



A little confusing..... Yes.... Let me attempt to explain a little....

Short version.......
The Original Senior Council invited all the (living) Ed Parker 7ths to be on the Council.   A few declined to participate for whatever reason.  The council was formed with the addition of John Sepulveda, John Liles.   Brian Duffy and Dennis Conatser were associated as consultants.   During the past 2 or 3 years Brian and I were added to the  "Council" due to contributions for Kenpo.

Bob White has been the Chairman for the past 2 years, but has experienced some personal tragedies and we have not progressed as much if any as we should.  This is a difficult task to organize and gain cooperation  from this group... so the challenge's great but worthwhile to pursue.    There are some new issues on the table and hopefully we will see some movement very soon from this group.......

:asian:


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## IKCAMemberGary (Jun 20, 2002)

My feelings on ANY Senior Council, whether it be the AKSC, or some other, is that it should include the ORIGINAL 7ths who were promoted by Ed Parker. Then, when they retire, their successor moves into the slot, and that should not be able to be changed.

Obviously, if there are ones who do not want to be part of it, then so be it.

Too bad, though, I think its really needed. 

I wonder sometimes if an "outsider" were to put it together and then bring in the Seniors, would they come? Not one Senior starting a Senior Council and then asking others to join, because I think ego, sore feelings and other issues can come up.

Gary


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## RCastillo (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *But not one that has gone overlooked!  It truly is a labor of love and has been a work in progress.  I don't know if you know of the AKSC  American Kenpo Senior Council but here is the site......
> 
> ...




WELL, I was NEVER asked to give my comments, or suggestions! Now I know where I stand with the GOLDEN ONE!


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by IKCAMemberGary _
> 
> *My feelings on ANY Senior Council, whether it be the AKSC, or some other, is that it should include the ORIGINAL 7ths who were promoted by Ed Parker. Then, when they retire, their successor moves into the slot, and that should not be able to be changed.
> 
> ...



Not one Senior did Start it.............. Several did and ALL were invited!  You work with what you have.  Even so..... all in the AKSC have been extreemely cooperative and all only have one vote as well...... so it is about as diplomatic as possible.  

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Jun 20, 2002)

I love the idea of senior council, a unifying body.  But is there a way for the egos to be checked at the door kind of thing.  Unification of the kenpo world would help us ascend to a whole new level never imagined before.


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## kenpochip (Jun 21, 2002)

All,

The challenge that I see is that in order for a Kenpo Senior Council to grade practioners from other organizations, there would have to be agreed-upon standards for promotion.  Who would set those standards? Would they they be "standard standards" or more flexible guidelines? Organizations that have a significantly different curriculum from most American Kenpo schools, such as the IKCA and AKKI, would not agree to having their students do the "standard" American Kenpo  techniques.  It would pretty much kill any innovations or tweaks they had made.

Just as colleges and universities all teach, say, Computer Science a bit differently, the same core principles should be taught in SOME manner to the students.  Each school decides how to do that teaching. Degrees from one accredited school are accepted at other accredited schools.  When you go for a Master's degree 
at a different school, they won't force you to start over again with a bachelor's degree program first.  They may require some fill-in courses to fill in the gaps, but you wouldn't have to start from the beginning again.

So, maybe this Kenpo Senior Council could act as an accreditation body for schools and organizations.  My understanding is that Mr. Parker didn't want his Art to be traditionalized, but it appears to me that that is what has happened for some organizations and schools.  With an umbrella organization, perhaps even more innovation could take place without the loss of a "home" for innovative schools and organizations. 

Since not all innovations would be good ones, this Council could also assist in providing peer review for innovations just as scientists do for each other.  It could provide a means for better information flow among all of the interested Kenpo practioners and improve the Art.  Of course, not everyone would agree on specific innovations or curriculum changes, but, over time, the Art would improve just as we are improving in the Art.  

Chip


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## IKCAMemberGary (Jun 21, 2002)

>>Not one Senior did Start it.............. Several did and ALL were invited! 

This is my point entirely. That OTHER Senior Kenpo folks started it, and wanted the others to come along. I can see, especially if there are/were animosities among the Seniors, the reason that they would not want to join forces.

Further, even if they DID join a Senior Council, how would they certify blackbelts? Considering that several Seniors now do "their own thing", how could Dave Hebler (just using Dave as an example) decide if a blackbelt condidate with the IKCA really knows his stuff? Yes, a neutral bow is a neutral bow, but techniques, the Master Form, as well as other differences almost REQUIRE the other Seniors to know the IKCA material, and Vice Versa. I use the IKCA as an example, since I am a member of that organization.

By the way, I think that it would fall upon the Senior Council to grade higher than 1st, say maybe start with 2nd or 3rd. That way, each blackbelt is brought to blackbelt by his/her own school/organization.

Just ideas being bantered about....

Gary


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## Rainman (Jun 21, 2002)

.


> Further, even if they DID join a Senior Council, how would they certify blackbelts? Considering that several Seniors now do "their own thing", how could Dave Hebler (just using Dave as an example) decide if a blackbelt condidate with the IKCA really knows his stuff? Yes, a neutral bow is a neutral bow, but techniques, the Master Form, as well as other differences almost REQUIRE the other Seniors to know the IKCA material, and Vice Versa. I use the IKCA as an example, since I am a member of that organization



Their endorsements are for 5th and above.  No matter the material it is not hard to see who knows what when they present their forms, teks, and freestyle ability.




> So, maybe this Kenpo Senior Council could act as an accreditation body for schools and organizations. My understanding is that Mr. Parker didn't want his Art to be traditionalized, but it appears to me that that is what has happened for some organizations and schools. With an umbrella organization, perhaps even more innovation could take place without the loss of a "home" for innovative schools and organizations.



Some have been commercialized and ruled by the dollar.  Their goal was to stop rank explosion and give some credibility to the higher ranks by having a recognizable peer group judge the execution of material you present.   With the cummulative years of experience on that board no one will get by them unless they deserve it.


:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Jun 21, 2002)

The camp at which the American Kenpo Senior Council was initiated was HUGE!!!!  They were going to be the "Quality Control" group for any test above 4th Black, I believe.  

A few of the Seniors or Notables were:

Stephen LaBounty
Tom Kelly 
Richard "Huk" Planas 
Frank Trejo 
Bob White 
John Sepulveda 
Bob Liles 
Bryan Hawkins 
Dennis Conatser 
Andre Simms 
Edward Downey
Ed Parker Jr. 
Brian Duffy
Howard Silva
Tommy Burks
Gary Swan
Jeff Speakman
Barbara Hale

Hmmm.....  Who else?  I just can't remember all the high ranking individuals that were there.  I thought Dian Tanaka was there, but I could be wrong, and I sincerely apologize to any persons who I ommitted from the list.  I personally know a bunch more Seniors personally now and just can't remember who else was there - Was Skip Hancock there, Mike Pick, Ron Chapel, Paul Mills, Larry Tatum, Joe Palanzo, - obviously not Mr. Tracy, but his system did have people there ... I just don't know.  You could contact Brian Duffy or Dennis Conatser, Sigung Labounty, or Tom Kelly and they would surely remember.  It was an unforgettable camp for a number of reasons, and very emotional with Ed Jr. speaking about his Dad.

This was HUGE!!!!  But watching everyone organize the Association, then over the years watching them go their separate ways was a sad time for me.  It is now getting somewhat better as everyone is finding niches for themselves, and their interpretation of the System the Mr. Parker left with us.  

The old question remains "How many Kenpo Black Belts does it take to screw in a light bulb?"  Answer: "100 - one to screw in the light bulb and 99 to say, THAT'S NOT THE WAY MR. PARKER SHOWED ME."

Just trying to Keep it Real,
-Michael Billings
UKS-Texas


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## RCastillo (Jun 21, 2002)

When did this camp take place?


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## Michael Billings (Jun 21, 2002)




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## Seig (Jun 22, 2002)

and I think, if I have read correctly the point here would be 5th degree, that the Senior COuncil would not have to know every tech in every system.  Just like judges at tournaments do not have to know every form of every system.  They would grade you on knowledge and the way you move as well as the way you convey your movement.  I believe there are a few unalienable concepts that SGM set down that would be a good point for the council to be able to use as guidelines.  But hey, I'm just a third, what do I know?


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## GouRonin (Jul 9, 2002)

Did I miss the info that was coming on this? I did a search. Dennis? You had some stuff you were gonna tell us but I haven't seen you around and you're busy on AOL IM.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 9, 2002)

there is no new news as of yet...........


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## RCastillo (Jul 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *there is no new news as of yet........... *



See, I told you, Mr. C. works for the government. Same ole story. Nothing yet, but....................behind the scenes? Stay tuned, we'll have DC in front of a Congressional Committee yet!


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## GouRonin (Jul 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *there is no new news as of yet...........*



Ok. I'll start making stuff up.

I heard that they were going to force people to join or otherwise your rank won't be honoured at any camps. Plus you have to pay a fee to them regardless of what organization you're in.


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## Seig (Jul 10, 2002)

That's it, give them ideas


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## GouRonin (Jul 10, 2002)

Sorry!


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 10, 2002)

You have a copy of the handbook or something?


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## GouRonin (Jul 10, 2002)

I am just very keenly aware of how Kenpo politics work.

I also predicted the shooting of JFK. I'm 2 and 0 baby!


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I am just very keenly aware of how Kenpo politics work.
> 
> I also predicted the shooting of JFK. I'm 2 and 0 baby! *



I wanna be a barstool prophet too... How do you get your amazing powers of observation?


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## GouRonin (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> *I wanna be a barstool prophet too... How do you get your amazing powers of observation? *



I usually start with a single malt...


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## Seig (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I am just very keenly aware of how Kenpo politics work.
> 
> I also predicted the shooting of JFK. I'm 2 and 0 baby! *


Did you time travel to do it?  Or are you talking about when you watched the movie?


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Did you time travel to do it?  Or are you talking about when you watched the movie? *



Doug's on Drugs dude... He's friggin' crazy!


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## Kirk (Jul 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> 
> Doug's on Drugs dude... He's friggin' crazy! *




That's why he's a successful counselor.   Don't worry Gou, I'll
throw the water fountain through the window for you, just give
me the word.


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## Seig (Jul 10, 2002)

Next thing youknow he will beholding a pen to his neck threatening to puncture his Aorta...geez:shrug:


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