# Starting Martial Arts After 50



## mrt2

Greetings, martial arts practitioners.  

Here is my story.  

35 years ago, I walked into Yi's Tang Soo Do in Cherry Hill NJ as a chubby 14 year old.      I eventually reached the rank of Cho Dan Bo.  I ultimately left because I was headed to college, and I no longer had the time to train, and after college, became involved in other activities. Until recently, I hadn't really given martial arts much thought, but I am seriously thinking about getting back into it, before age and decay make it too late.

I have become bored with my gym routine recently and was thinking about trying martial arts again.  I hope to lose some weight and regain some of the flexibility I have lost due to age and gaining weight.  While I appreciate the self defense aspect of martial arts, it is less important to me at this stage of life to be able to kick someone's butt (hence I don't want to do MMA), than it is to be physically strong, and mentally sharp.  And I hope to find a physical activity to compliment my favorite form of exercise, which is  riding my bicycle.   Now, I am 52 years old, and probably weigh 80 lbs more than I did back when I studied Tang Soo Do.  And I know I lack the flexibility I once had, both due to age, and weight gain.

As for general health, I go for regular checkups and while I have some minor injuries, like a bad rotator cuff, I don't have any injuries that would preclude me from trying martial arts again.  I have some aerobic fitness because I do ride my bicycle regularly from the Spring through the Fall at least 3 days a week for an hour or more.  And it has helped with aerobic fitness and mental well being as there is nothing so nice as a 2 or 3 hour bike ride on a warm summer day.  But after 5 plus years of regular bike riding, my physique is mostly the same.  (strong legs, flabby upper body)  And while it is great for developing endurance,  I know I have lost a lot of quickness, flexibility, and strength.  I am also interested in the mental benefits of martial arts.  I know remaining active has mental benefits, but I am thinking something like martial arts will work my brain in ways it hasn't been worked in some time.

I did a little research and it looks like there are limited opportunities to practice Tang Soo Do where I live, so I will likely be switching to Tae Kwon Do.  

Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?  

Thanks much for your time.


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## Xue Sheng

I am older than you are and I have taken a hiatus or 2, mostly due to injury, but not 30 years. I have also changed styles a few times but have had 2 that were fairly constant. As long as you find a good school and you are patient with yourself and go in with a beginners mind then all will go fine


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## mrt2

Xue Sheng said:


> I am older than you are and I have taken a hiatus or 2, mostly due to injury, but not 30 years. I have also changed styles a few times but have had 2 that were fairly constant. As long as you find a good school and you are patient with yourself and *go in with a beginners mind* then all will go fine


I will try.  I found a school nearby and the master seems like a good guy, and I like the fact that he is around my age, and not someone half my age.  That said, I recognize that I will have to learn from and respect instructors and students who might be half my age.


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## pdg

I'm younger than you (40 for another couple of months) and I started Taekwon-do almost 2 years ago.

But you could say that I started after almost 39 years away from martial arts 

I've heard it's supposed to be fairly rough on knees - after having issues with my right knee for many years it's better than (almost) ever...

One guy in our school is in his mid 60s, started about 4ish years ago and got 1st dan last year.

Basically, I don't think age is very much of an issue if you're relatively sensible with what's physically possible for you.


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## mrt2

pdg said:


> I'm younger than you (40 for another couple of months) and I started Taekwon-do almost 2 years ago.
> 
> But you could say that I started after almost 39 years away from martial arts
> 
> I've heard it's supposed to be fairly rough on knees - after having issues with my right knee for many years it's better than (almost) ever...
> 
> One guy in our school is in his mid 60s, started about 4ish years ago and got 1st dan last year.
> 
> Basically,* I don't think age is very much of an issue if you're relatively sensible with what's physically possible for you.*



I remember what I used to be able to do, and I imagine I will have to adapt my style to the realities of my age and weight.  I can't do anything about my age, but I do plan to lose some of this weight.  Surprisingly for my weight, my knees are generally OK, so I am hopeful.

One thing I do need to get over is the uniform.  When I went to the TKD studio, the master had me put on a uniform, and I think I look ridiculous in the pull over style uniform they use in TKD.  Hopefully I can get over this.


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## pdg

mrt2 said:


> One thing I do need to get over is the uniform.  When I went to the TKD studio, the master had me put on a uniform, and I think I look ridiculous in the pull over style uniform they use in TKD.  Hopefully I can get over this.



Well, what with it being a uniform everyone will look equally silly 

We don't use that type of top in ours (ITF) - we have a crossover front with a zip, but we have the pullover type for kickboxing. There's really very little difference once you cinch the sides and get a belt around it.


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## Zyk

mrt2 said:


> I remember what I used to be able to do, and I imagine I will have to adapt my style to the realities of my age and weight.  I can't do anything about my age, but I do plan to lose some of this weight.  Surprisingly for my weight, my knees are generally OK, so I am hopeful.
> 
> One thing I do need to get over is the uniform.  When I went to the TKD studio, the master had me put on a uniform, and I think I look ridiculous in the pull over style uniform they use in TKD.  Hopefully I can get over this.



Do you have a KSW school near by?  I recently did some trial classes at one near me and there were a lot of older men there.  They were all in great shape.  In my mind I thought it was like TKD in a lot of ways plus they teach you how to fall, some throws/joint locks, and weapons.  Might be worth a look.

Welcome back, just returned after a 26 year break myself.


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## lklawson

mrt2 said:


> I did a little research and it looks like there are limited opportunities to practice Tang Soo Do where I live, so I will likely be switching to Tae Kwon Do.


Depending on the <cough> "lineage" of each, you may see little difference.

That said, judging by your personal description and your concerns of health and age, you might be happier with the physical and emotional results of either recreational Judo or Brazilian Jui Jitsu.



> Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?


I see it from time to time in Judo.  I tell them to just work to their physical capabilities, have fun, and keep learning.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## KenpoMaster805

you can go back and joined any Martiial Arts age is no Limit and choose the one you like there is a guy in my karate studio age 52 whose starting again so ya age dont matter you can start


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## Dirty Dog

I'm older than you, have taken more than one break, and have trained in more than one art.
You're not going to find TKD all that much different, in practice, to TSD. The forms will likely be different, in that TSD uses the turtle forms, which are not commonly used by TKD schools. But given that the Moo Duk Kwan (the source of TSD) was the largest of the original Kwan involved in the development of TKD, it's not surprising that there's a lot of overlap in the underlying principles.
You don't say where you are, but there are MDK schools all over the US. Depending on the history and lineage of their particular branch of the MDK, these schools may use the pinan, palgwae or taegeuk poomsae for colored belts. 
Age of the instructor shouldn't be an issue. I learn from people a fraction of my age all the time. 
As for the particular style of the dobak used... meh.... get over it, frankly. It's not a fashion show. 
As for your age... forget it. You're just too old.
Kidding.
We recently promoted a woman to 1st Dan. She's 73. She used to bring her grandson to class, and when he lost interest (at 3rd geup, if memory serves) she kept coming. She was 65-ish when she took her first class.


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## mrt2

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm older than you, have taken more than one break, and have trained in more than one art.
> You're not going to find TKD all that much different, in practice, to TSD. The forms will likely be different, in that TSD uses the turtle forms, which are not commonly used by TKD schools. But given that the Moo Duk Kwan (the source of TSD) was the largest of the original Kwan involved in the development of TKD, it's not surprising that there's a lot of overlap in the underlying principles.
> *You don't say where you are, but there are MDK schools all over the US*. Depending on the history and lineage of their particular branch of the MDK, these schools may use the pinan, palgwae or taegeuk poomsae for colored belts.
> Age of the instructor shouldn't be an issue. I learn from people a fraction of my age all the time.
> As for the particular style of the dobak used... meh.... get over it, frankly. It's not a fashion show.
> As for your age... forget it. You're just too old.
> Kidding.
> We recently promoted a woman to 1st Dan. She's 73. She used to bring her grandson to class, and when he lost interest (at 3rd geup, if memory serves) she kept coming. She was 65-ish when she took her first class.



Yes, Moo Duk Kwan.  But while there are Tang Soo Do  schools around the country, and in my native South Jersey,  in Wisconsin where I now live, it all seems to be all Tae Kwan Do.  And that is fine.  I met with a TKD master who I actually met 20 years ago,and he has two schools each of which is less than 10 minutes from my house.  We met the other day at his school and he had me do some basic combinations.  He explained that after the beginning forms, I would have to learn new forms as TKD and TSD differ in this respect.  And that is fine.  I actually kind of like the fact the two styles are similar, but yet a little different.  It will be a chance to engage the mind as well as the body.

And you are right about getting over feeling ridiculous.  If I can wear spandex while riding a bike, I can handle wearing a pullover style Tae Kwon Do uniform.


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## pdg

mrt2 said:


> If I can wear spandex while riding a bike, I can handle wearing a pullover style Tae Kwon Do uniform.



I forgot you said about biking - and there was me about to say "could be worse, you could be in spandex"


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## mrt2

pdg said:


> I forgot you said about biking - and there was me about to say "could be worse, you could be in spandex"



Don't knock it till you try it.  Spandex bike gear is awesome.  It feels like a second skin.


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## hoshin1600

mrt2 said:


> And you are right about getting over feeling ridiculous.  If I can wear spandex while riding a bike, I can handle wearing a pullover style Tae Kwon Do uniform.



yeah im 50 and i feel right at home in a martial art uniform....i couldnt handle spandex....aint happening.  i would be the only guy in the tour de france in jeans.


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## lklawson

mrt2 said:


> Don't knock it till you try it.  Spandex bike gear is awesome.  It feels like a second skin.


While I'm a big fan of the aesthetics of spandex, I specifically prefer certain feminine forms for the display.  There are likely few things I'd enjoy less than viewing a 52yo male form in spandex.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Xue Sheng

mrt2 said:


> I will try.  I found a school nearby and the master seems like a good guy, and I like the fact that he is around my age, and not someone half my age.  That said, I recognize that I will have to learn from and respect instructors and students who might be half my age.



Other than the young guys thinking you're an old man (use that to your advantage ) there is no age to worry about. Go listen to, and watch the instructor and the senior students and all will be fine.

I have been in martial arts for over 40 years and when I go to a new class, or seminar, even in the style I have done before, I go thinking of myself as a beginner and it works great, I learn lots, and no egos get involved that way.


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## mrt2

lklawson said:


> While I'm a big fan of the aesthetics of spandex, I specifically prefer certain feminine forms for the display.  There are likely few things I'd enjoy less than viewing a 52yo male form in spandex.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



Well, Kirk, in cycling, the spandex is mostly about function.  Ride in the heat in denim and your crotch will feel like a swamp inside of a half hour.  Cycling shorts are made to fit like a second skin, with a sewn in chamois to move with you, and wick moisture away from the crotch area.  Cycling jerseys are cut to fit close to the body so they don't flap in the wind, and to wick sweat away from the body.  When I first started to ride, I resisted the spandex, or I covered it up with some loose shorts over the cycling shorts.  But the loose shorts tended to get hot or bunch up, so eventually I just tossed them.  I found with the shirts that I just need to avoid certain brands that just ran too small, and to size up a bit so I could breath, which is at least as important in cycling as it is in martial arts.

As far as aesthetics go, after you ride for awhile, you adjust what looks good and bad.  For sure, if I see an out of shape old guy wearing full Team Sky pro replica kit riding at 10 mph, that seems odd.  But if I see an old guy wearing regular kit (no logos, or a local riding club logo, or something similar) kicking butt on the road, that guy has my respect.  And when I ride, I just put on my cycling gear and don't sweat it, literally.

Hoping in time, I will similarly  adjust to wearing a dobok.


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## Dirty Dog

lklawson said:


> While I'm a big fan of the aesthetics of spandex, I specifically prefer certain feminine forms for the display.  There are likely few things I'd enjoy less than viewing a 52yo male form in spandex.



There is a functional aspect, I'm sure...
I do a lot of diving. It's nice to be able to remove your wetsuit between dives, or after your last dive. But wearing a conventional swim suit or board shorts under a wetsuit is uncomfortable. Things tend to bunch up. Now, a lot of men deal with this by wearing a banana hammock. Which I personally do not care to do. My solution is to wear compression shorts (which are essentially spandex) under my suit. I keep a pair of board shorts and a T shirt in my dry bag. I can easily pull the wetsuit off and get dressed without offending anyones sensibilities. Because let's face it. Wearing a budgie smuggler on a dive boat really should be a no-no.
I suspect jeans or regular shorts have similar drawbacks when biking.


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## mrt2

Dirty Dog said:


> There is a functional aspect, I'm sure...
> I do a lot of diving. It's nice to be able to remove your wetsuit between dives, or after your last dive. But wearing a conventional swim suit or board shorts under a wetsuit is uncomfortable. Things tend to bunch up. Now, a lot of men deal with this by wearing a banana hammock. Which I personally do not care to do. *My solution is to wear compression shorts (which are essentially spandex) under my suit. I keep a pair of board shorts and a T shirt in my dry bag. I can easily pull the wetsuit off and get dressed without offending anyones sensibilities. Because let's face it. Wearing a budgie smuggler on a dive boat really should be a no-no.
> I suspect jeans or regular shorts have similar drawbacks when bikin*g.


Yup.  Same thing.  On club rides, riders will sometimes make a quick change from spandex jersey and shorts to T shirts and shorts after the ride.


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## lklawson

mrt2 said:


> Well, Kirk, in cycling, the spandex is mostly about function.  Ride in the heat in denim and your crotch will feel like a swamp inside of a half hour.  Cycling shorts are made to fit like a second skin, with a sewn in chamois to move with you, and wick moisture away from the crotch area.  Cycling jerseys are cut to fit close to the body so they don't flap in the wind, and to wick sweat away from the body.  When I first started to ride, I resisted the spandex, or I covered it up with some loose shorts over the cycling shorts.  But the loose shorts tended to get hot or bunch up, so eventually I just tossed them.  I found with the shirts that I just need to avoid certain brands that just ran too small, and to size up a bit so I could breath, which is at least as important in cycling as it is in martial arts.
> 
> As far as aesthetics go, after you ride for awhile, you adjust what looks good and bad.  For sure, if I see an out of shape old guy wearing full Team Sky pro replica kit riding at 10 mph, that seems odd.  But if I see an old guy wearing regular kit (no logos, or a local riding club logo, or something similar) kicking butt on the road, that guy has my respect.  And when I ride, I just put on my cycling gear and don't sweat it, literally.
> 
> Hoping in time, I will similarly  adjust to wearing a dobok.





Dirty Dog said:


> There is a functional aspect, I'm sure...
> I do a lot of diving. It's nice to be able to remove your wetsuit between dives, or after your last dive. But wearing a conventional swim suit or board shorts under a wetsuit is uncomfortable. Things tend to bunch up. Now, a lot of men deal with this by wearing a banana hammock. Which I personally do not care to do. My solution is to wear compression shorts (which are essentially spandex) under my suit. I keep a pair of board shorts and a T shirt in my dry bag. I can easily pull the wetsuit off and get dressed without offending anyones sensibilities. Because let's face it. Wearing a budgie smuggler on a dive boat really should be a no-no.
> I suspect jeans or regular shorts have similar drawbacks when biking.



I think you guys are missing the point of my post.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## drop bear

mrt2 said:


> Well, Kirk, in cycling, the spandex is mostly about function.  Ride in the heat in denim and your crotch will feel like a swamp inside of a half hour.  Cycling shorts are made to fit like a second skin, with a sewn in chamois to move with you, and wick moisture away from the crotch area.  Cycling jerseys are cut to fit close to the body so they don't flap in the wind, and to wick sweat away from the body.  When I first started to ride, I resisted the spandex, or I covered it up with some loose shorts over the cycling shorts.  But the loose shorts tended to get hot or bunch up, so eventually I just tossed them.  I found with the shirts that I just need to avoid certain brands that just ran too small, and to size up a bit so I could breath, which is at least as important in cycling as it is in martial arts.
> 
> As far as aesthetics go, after you ride for awhile, you adjust what looks good and bad.  For sure, if I see an out of shape old guy wearing full Team Sky pro replica kit riding at 10 mph, that seems odd.  But if I see an old guy wearing regular kit (no logos, or a local riding club logo, or something similar) kicking butt on the road, that guy has my respect.  And when I ride, I just put on my cycling gear and don't sweat it, literally.
> 
> Hoping in time, I will similarly  adjust to wearing a dobok.



I martial art in spandex. And I look awesome.

Haters gonna hate.


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## jobo

mrt2 said:


> Greetings, martial arts practitioners.
> 
> Here is my story.
> 
> 35 years ago, I walked into Yi's Tang Soo Do in Cherry Hill NJ as a chubby 14 year old.      I eventually reached the rank of Cho Dan Bo.  I ultimately left because I was headed to college, and I no longer had the time to train, and after college, became involved in other activities. Until recently, I hadn't really given martial arts much thought, but I am seriously thinking about getting back into it, before age and decay make it too late.
> 
> I have become bored with my gym routine recently and was thinking about trying martial arts again.  I hope to lose some weight and regain some of the flexibility I have lost due to age and gaining weight.  While I appreciate the self defense aspect of martial arts, it is less important to me at this stage of life to be able to kick someone's butt (hence I don't want to do MMA), than it is to be physically strong, and mentally sharp.  And I hope to find a physical activity to compliment my favorite form of exercise, which is  riding my bicycle.   Now, I am 52 years old, and probably weigh 80 lbs more than I did back when I studied Tang Soo Do.  And I know I lack the flexibility I once had, both due to age, and weight gain.
> 
> As for general health, I go for regular checkups and while I have some minor injuries, like a bad rotator cuff, I don't have any injuries that would preclude me from trying martial arts again.  I have some aerobic fitness because I do ride my bicycle regularly from the Spring through the Fall at least 3 days a week for an hour or more.  And it has helped with aerobic fitness and mental well being as there is nothing so nice as a 2 or 3 hour bike ride on a warm summer day.  But after 5 plus years of regular bike riding, my physique is mostly the same.  (strong legs, flabby upper body)  And while it is great for developing endurance,  I know I have lost a lot of quickness, flexibility, and strength.  I am also interested in the mental benefits of martial arts.  I know remaining active has mental benefits, but I am thinking something like martial arts will work my brain in ways it hasn't been worked in some time.
> 
> I did a little research and it looks like there are limited opportunities to practice Tang Soo Do where I live, so I will likely be switching to Tae Kwon Do.
> 
> Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?
> 
> Thanks much for your time.



yes i started again after near 30 year at age 56, i found fitness a lit easier to come by than flexability, 3 years on and any kick above the waist is still an impossible dream


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## taistrong

It is never too late to try! Best of luck! And make sure you start slow first...


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## oftheherd1

You will find a lot of people who get a late start, whether for the first time or after a long time away.  As already mentioned, go for it and do what your body will let you do. 

Welcome to MT and back to martial arts.


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## drop bear

People are definitely doing it.


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## mrt2

Update.  So I finished up my first week of TKD and the good news is, I feel pretty good.  I am starting to remember why I liked it so much during my high school years.  And the good news is, I seem to get the same mental boost from TKD as I get from outdoor cycling, which is a good thing as with cycling, I am limited somewhat by wet, or cold,weather.  And, cycling is a much longer time committment, to really get the mental boost. As the days get longer, and tonight is when we change the clocks back, I plan to ride my bike to the dojang as a warmup, and home as a cool down.

I learned the first two beginner forms, which are if not identical, pretty close to identical as the white belt forms I remember from Tang Soo Do.   Basic kicks are starting to come back to me. 

I actually feel pretty good after class. My hips and back are a little sore, but honestly I expected to feel worse than I do for not having done this in so many years.


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## drop bear

mrt2 said:


> Update.  So I finished up my first week of TKD and the good news is, I feel pretty good.  I am starting to remember why I liked it so much during my high school years.  And the good news is, I seem to get the same mental boost from TKD as I get from outdoor cycling, which is a good thing as with cycling, I am limited somewhat by wet, or cold,weather.  And, cycling is a much longer time committment, to really get the mental boost. As the days get longer, and tonight is when we change the clocks back, I plan to ride my bike to the dojang as a warmup, and home as a cool down.
> 
> I learned the first two beginner forms, which are if not identical, pretty close to identical as the white belt forms I remember from Tang Soo Do.   Basic kicks are starting to come back to me.
> 
> I actually feel pretty good after class. My hips and back are a little sore, but honestly I expected to feel worse than I do for not having done this in so many years.



Nice work.


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## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Update.  So I finished up my first week of TKD and the good news is, I feel pretty good.  I am starting to remember why I liked it so much during my high school years.  And the good news is, I seem to get the same mental boost from TKD as I get from outdoor cycling, which is a good thing as with cycling, I am limited somewhat by wet, or cold,weather.  And, cycling is a much longer time committment, to really get the mental boost. As the days get longer, and tonight is when we change the clocks back, I plan to ride my bike to the dojang as a warmup, and home as a cool down.
> 
> I learned the first two beginner forms, which are if not identical, pretty close to identical as the white belt forms I remember from Tang Soo Do.   Basic kicks are starting to come back to me.
> 
> I actually feel pretty good after class. My hips and back are a little sore, but honestly I expected to feel worse than I do for not having done this in so many years.



Ah that's really great to hear mate, there's nothing like that feeling of remembering why you loved something . And really cool that alot of stuff has come back to you, I swear those drills and techniques just stick don't they...

And the fact that you're only a little sore is a great sign, just pay extra attention to proper warning up and training smart, and you'll be flyyyyyyin.

Happy for ya!


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## Xue Sheng

mrt2 said:


> Update.  So I finished up my first week of TKD and the good news is, I feel pretty good.  I am starting to remember why I liked it so much during my high school years.  And the good news is, I seem to get the same mental boost from TKD as I get from outdoor cycling, which is a good thing as with cycling, I am limited somewhat by wet, or cold,weather.  And, cycling is a much longer time committment, to really get the mental boost. As the days get longer, and tonight is when we change the clocks back, I plan to ride my bike to the dojang as a warmup, and home as a cool down.
> 
> I learned the first two beginner forms, which are if not identical, pretty close to identical as the white belt forms I remember from Tang Soo Do.   Basic kicks are starting to come back to me.
> 
> I actually feel pretty good after class. My hips and back are a little sore, but honestly I expected to feel worse than I do for not having done this in so many years.



That is great to hear, I am happy it is working out for you...enjoy the training


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## AngryHobbit

mrt2 said:


> Greetings, martial arts practitioners.
> 
> Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?
> 
> Thanks much for your time.



I am younger than you, but I have some nasty skeletal and genetic issues that make training complicated. I took an 6-year long hiatus from nihon goshin aikido (I was a brown belt at the time - an assistant instructor rank) when I was 34, because that was the year my immune system decided to tank. Came back 2.5 years ago and keeping at it.

I am not training as much as I used to before the hiatus, but making a steady progress. I also found I had to supplement martial arts training with additional fitness classes to address the issues of flexibility, muscle stiffness, joint pain, overall stamina, etc. So, I take some high-impact cardio classes (zumba, step, and POUND) and vinyasa yoga. They work pretty well together, because each one contributes to a different aspect of my martial arts training.


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## AngryHobbit

Dirty Dog said:


> As for your age... forget it. You're just too old.
> Kidding.
> We recently promoted a woman to 1st Dan. She's 73. She used to bring her grandson to class, and when he lost interest (at 3rd geup, if memory serves) she kept coming. She was 65-ish when she took her first class.



Tell her she is a hero! Wow! 73. That is out there! I want to grow up just like her.


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## AngryHobbit

hoshin1600 said:


> yeah im 50 and i feel right at home in a martial art uniform....i couldnt handle spandex....aint happening.  i would be the only guy in the tour de france in jeans.


I love my uniform - it's like pajamas. Oh... wait... it IS kind of pajamas. Samurai pajamas. 

Seriously, when it comes to training and fitness, I agree with folks favoring function over fashion. Does it stay on? Is it comfortable? Can you move in it? Can other people move you in it? 

That said, sometimes it's fun to shock young people. I do it in zumba and in step a lot - when I show up among all the super-skinny girls young enough to be my daughters, with my chubby hobbit self, in a hot pink techno fabric top and a micromini sports bottom. Good times!


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## Marie_Flowers88

mrt2 said:


> Greetings, martial arts practitioners.
> 
> Here is my story.
> 
> 35 years ago, I walked into Yi's Tang Soo Do in Cherry Hill NJ as a chubby 14 year old.      I eventually reached the rank of Cho Dan Bo.  I ultimately left because I was headed to college, and I no longer had the time to train, and after college, became involved in other activities. Until recently, I hadn't really given martial arts much thought, but I am seriously thinking about getting back into it, before age and decay make it too late.
> 
> I have become bored with my gym routine recently and was thinking about trying martial arts again.  I hope to lose some weight and regain some of the flexibility I have lost due to age and gaining weight.  While I appreciate the self defense aspect of martial arts, it is less important to me at this stage of life to be able to kick someone's butt (hence I don't want to do MMA), than it is to be physically strong, and mentally sharp.  And I hope to find a physical activity to compliment my favorite form of exercise, which is  riding my bicycle.   Now, I am 52 years old, and probably weigh 80 lbs more than I did back when I studied Tang Soo Do.  And I know I lack the flexibility I once had, both due to age, and weight gain.
> 
> As for general health, I go for regular checkups and while I have some minor injuries, like a bad rotator cuff, I don't have any injuries that would preclude me from trying martial arts again.  I have some aerobic fitness because I do ride my bicycle regularly from the Spring through the Fall at least 3 days a week for an hour or more.  And it has helped with aerobic fitness and mental well being as there is nothing so nice as a 2 or 3 hour bike ride on a warm summer day.  But after 5 plus years of regular bike riding, my physique is mostly the same.  (strong legs, flabby upper body)  And while it is great for developing endurance,  I know I have lost a lot of quickness, flexibility, and strength.  I am also interested in the mental benefits of martial arts.  I know remaining active has mental benefits, but I am thinking something like martial arts will work my brain in ways it hasn't been worked in some time.
> 
> I did a little research and it looks like there are limited opportunities to practice Tang Soo Do where I live, so I will likely be switching to Tae Kwon Do.
> 
> Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?
> 
> Thanks much for your time.



I just come across this thread. I just want to say that nothing is too late unless you chose not to try it. Good luck! Do what you want. Life is too short to have doubts  Hope I made sense.


----------



## mrt2

AngryHobbit said:


> I love my uniform - it's like pajamas. Oh... wait... it IS kind of pajamas. Samurai pajamas.
> 
> Seriously, when it comes to training and fitness,* I agree with folks favoring function over fashion*. Does it stay on? Is it comfortable? Can you move in it? Can other people move you in it?
> 
> That said, sometimes it's fun to shock young people. I do it in zumba and in step a lot - when I show up among all the super-skinny girls young enough to be my daughters, with my chubby hobbit self, in a hot pink techno fabric top and a micromini sports bottom. Good times!



Maybe I have become spoiled by some of my technical fabric cycling gear, but my Polyesther/Cotton blend Tae Kwon Do uniform doesn't seem to breath all that well.  I wear compression underwear and a Craft or Under Armor compression T shirt under my uniform, but I am wondering why nobody has come up with a Karate or Tae Kwon Do uniform with similar properties as the base layers I wear underneath.


----------



## AngryHobbit

mrt2 said:


> Maybe I have become spoiled by some of my technical fabric cycling gear, but my Polyesther/Cotton blend Tae Kwon Do uniform doesn't seem to breath all that well.  I wear compression underwear and a Craft or Under Armor compression T shirt under my uniform, but I am wondering why nobody has come up with a Karate or Tae Kwon Do uniform with similar properties as the base layers I wear underneath.


@gpseymour , what is my gi made of? It's just coarse cotton, right? Doesn't feel like a polyblend - if it is, the polyester content must be super-low. At this point, I've worn and washed it down to awesome pajama-like softness. 

Don't get me wrong, I love me some good, moisture-wicking, breathable techno fabric. I use it for all my high-impact cardio stuff. And I love, love, love it for mud runs - it sheds dirt and dries quickly, so it doesn't get nearly as soggy and weighted-down as other fabrics.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

AngryHobbit said:


> @gpseymour , what is my gi made of? It's just coarse cotton, right? Doesn't feel like a polyblend - if it is, the polyester content must be super-low. At this point, I've worn and washed it down to awesome pajama-like softness.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love me some good, moisture-wicking, breathable techno fabric. I use it for all my high-impact cardio stuff. And I love, love, love it for mud runs - it sheds dirt and dries quickly, so it doesn't get nearly as soggy and weighted-down as other fabrics.


I think yours is just cotton. Mine is. An entire field of it, I think.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

mrt2 said:


> Maybe I have become spoiled by some of my technical fabric cycling gear, but my Polyesther/Cotton blend Tae Kwon Do uniform doesn't seem to breath all that well.  I wear compression underwear and a Craft or Under Armor compression T shirt under my uniform, but I am wondering why nobody has come up with a Karate or Tae Kwon Do uniform with similar properties as the base layers I wear underneath.


I think a lot of it is durability and cost. A cheap gi made of tech fabric would fall apart. A judo gi made of tech fabric probably would stretch out of proportion. I've seen some BJJ uniforms using non-cotton fabrics, and they probably get a lot of pull and tug, so they must hold up, but they can't be as flexible and light as tech fabric tshirts.


----------



## mrt2

gpseymour said:


> I think a lot of it is durability and cost. A cheap gi made of tech fabric would fall apart. A judo gi made of tech fabric probably would stretch out of proportion. I've seen some BJJ uniforms using non-cotton fabrics, and they probably get a lot of pull and tug, so they must hold up, but they can't be as flexible and light as tech fabric tshirts.



I am thinking it must be cost.  My old uniform from back in the day was 100% cotton, but the ones my new dojang uses are poly/cotton blend.  I get the whole tradition thing, but there must be a way to blend the moisture wicking properties of technical fabric into a garment that looks like a traditional martial arts uniform.


----------



## drop bear

mrt2 said:


> Maybe I have become spoiled by some of my technical fabric cycling gear, but my Polyesther/Cotton blend Tae Kwon Do uniform doesn't seem to breath all that well.  I wear compression underwear and a Craft or Under Armor compression T shirt under my uniform, but I am wondering why nobody has come up with a Karate or Tae Kwon Do uniform with similar properties as the base layers I wear underneath.



Because you have to wear the uniform they give you.

My jujitsu gi is cotton. But the mess around with the weave to make it lighter.


----------



## JR 137

mrt2 said:


> I am thinking it must be cost.  My old uniform from back in the day was 100% cotton, but the ones my new dojang uses are poly/cotton blend.  I get the whole tradition thing, but there must be a way to blend the moisture wicking properties of technical fabric into a garment that looks like a traditional martial arts uniform.


The blended ones you’re imagining are out there.  And they’re a few hundred dollars.  And reportedly they’re not very durable, meaning that they’re primarily worn for competition and not day in and day out training.

I think part of the benefit of stuff like my under armour t-shirts is the thinness of the material.  I’d imagine if they were heavy enough for a karate gi, they’d be far less effective at wicking than 100% cotton would be.

If you wear a karate-style gi (non-v-neck pullover), look into higher end brands that use the Japanese cotton.  Shureido, and Tokaido come to mind immediately.  Hirota allegedly uses more or less the same material, but I haven’t seen them to confirm.

I sweat a lot.  The only gi that’s comfortable for me is the Shureido K-11, which is their middleweight all cotton gi.  It’s very breathable, soft, and comfortable.  Yet it’s heavy enough to take some abuse and not get all out of shape.  At $185, it ain’t exactly cheap.  But wearing cheaper gis in the past has justified than cost of it to me.  I still occasionally wear a Ronin heavyweight gi that’s about $75.  The only time I’ll wear it is when the two Shureidos I own aren’t clean.  And I hate to sound like a primadonna, but I really can’t stand wearing it anymore.  Way too hot and uncomfortable.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> Because you have to wear the uniform they give you.
> 
> My jujitsu gi is cotton. But the mess around with the weave to make it lighter.


All the places I trained, we didn't have to use what they sold (some didn't even sell them). But I just don't see anything in the inexpensive uniforms that's not either straight cotton or a cheaper blend. I really liked the uniforms we used in Judo, so I've gone back to something like those (after using the cheap stuff and a couple of more expensive cotton ones). It's like wearing a carpet, but it never feels stifling to me. Maybe I'm just a masochist.


----------



## mrt2

Update.  Still here, and still training.  This is my third week, and I am pretty happy so far.  I like an exercise that engages the mind, and TKD seems to fit the bill there.  Some kicks are easier for my aging muscles and tendons to do.  I am doing more work before class loosening up my hips and groin.  Helps with the roundhouse and hook kicks. It is hard to tell yet, but I feel like my conditioning is already a bit better than it was my first week.

It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.


----------



## pdg

mrt2 said:


> It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.



It does matter while it doesn't 

It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.

I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.

Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...


----------



## Gerry Seymour

pdg said:


> It does matter while it doesn't
> 
> It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.
> 
> I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.
> 
> Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...


In his case, he has some fundamentals that are probably very rusty, but still probably better than a rank beginner. I've helped folks returning after many years get back into the swing, and they almost all are ready to move ahead much faster.


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> It does matter while it doesn't
> 
> It may not mean anything outside your style (or even your school) but it'll mean you are getting access to training more techniques etc.
> 
> I'm personally not a fan of skipping grades, you might do the forms right enough, but there's much opportunity to miss out on some of the fundamentals - but really I suppose it depends on the curriculum and the individual.
> 
> Also, I have no idea what "high white" means...


“High white belt” is a white belt with a stripe or similar.

My CI typically skips 9th kyu and tests for 8th with the adults.  He combines 10th and 9th kyu because he feels the syllabus for those two ranks are a bit too thin, and rather than testing at 2 month intervals for those, he skips the 9th kyu test and makes the 8th kyu test a combination of both.  The total time in grade is pretty much the same, just no test in the middle.  Kids learn slower, so he doesn’t typically skip it for them.

That’s probably what’s going on here too.


----------



## pdg

gpseymour said:


> In his case, he has some fundamentals that are probably very rusty, but still probably better than a rank beginner. I've helped folks returning after many years get back into the swing, and they almost all are ready to move ahead much faster.





JR 137 said:


> “High white belt” is a white belt with a stripe or similar.
> 
> My CI typically skips 9th kyu and tests for 8th with the adults.  He combines 10th and 9th kyu because he feels the syllabus for those two ranks are a bit too thin, and rather than testing at 2 month intervals for those, he skips the 9th kyu test and makes the 8th kyu test a combination of both.  The total time in grade is pretty much the same, just no test in the middle.  Kids learn slower, so he doesn’t typically skip it for them.
> 
> That’s probably what’s going on here too.



Yeah, that's what I meant by individual and curriculum.

We have white (10th), yellow stripe (9th), then yellow (8th).

There's enough white belt material to grade to 9th kup to keep an average adult beginner going for the 3 month minimum time (or ~22 classes if that takes longer) in grade. Well, there is if you apply yourself to really learning it rather than just the minimum for the test 

For juniors (people starting aged about 7 up to around 13ish iirc) there are 2 extra junior grade tests leading to 9th - with a 3-6 month minimum (depending how young) in each, so it's not like grabbing extra test fees by doing weekly tests for the kids...


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant by individual and curriculum.
> 
> We have white (10th), yellow stripe (9th), then yellow (8th).
> 
> There's enough white belt material to grade to 9th kup to keep an average adult beginner going for the 3 month minimum time (or ~22 classes if that takes longer) in grade. Well, there is if you apply yourself to really learning it rather than just the minimum for the test
> 
> For juniors (people starting aged about 7 up to around 13ish iirc) there are 2 extra junior grade tests leading to 9th - with a 3-6 month minimum (depending how young) in each, so it's not like grabbing extra test fees by doing weekly tests for the kids...


Actually, our white belt curriculum (10th kyu) is pretty deep for a beginner.  The 9th kyu isn’t, it’s more or less 1 kata that’s quite similar to the 10th kyu kata, 2 new 1 steps, and a handful of hand techniques.  The 10th and 9th kyu are 20 classes minimum for each one, which works out to 2 months each.  The minimum bumps up to double that at 7th-5th kyu or so.  So rather than test, my CI just starts teaching 9th kyu stuff when he feels the student’s ready.  Once they’re ready to test for 8th kyu, he tests them.  I’ve never had a conversation with him about it; I’ve just never seen him test an adult for 9th kyu.  I’ve overheard him saying it’s not worth the student’s time to test that soon together.  And he probably doesn’t want to nickel and dime them for testing fees like that either.  The students wearing an 8th kyu belt are worthy of that rank, so there’s really no difference in the end.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> Actually, our white belt curriculum (10th kyu) is pretty deep for a beginner.  The 9th kyu isn’t, it’s more or less 1 kata that’s quite similar to the 10th kyu kata, 2 new 1 steps, and a handful of hand techniques.  The 10th and 9th kyu are 20 classes minimum for each one, which works out to 2 months each.  The minimum bumps up to double that at 7th-5th kyu or so.  So rather than test, my CI just starts teaching 9th kyu stuff when he feels the student’s ready.  Once they’re ready to test for 8th kyu, he tests them.  I’ve never had a conversation with him about it; I’ve just never seen him test an adult for 9th kyu.  I’ve overheard him saying it’s not worth the student’s time to test that soon together.  And he probably doesn’t want to nickel and dime them for testing fees like that either.  The students wearing an 8th kyu belt are worthy of that rank, so there’s really no difference in the end.



I get what you're saying...

Our 9th doesn't introduce a whole raft of new stuff either, but there's an expectation that you'll be better (than you were) at the 10th stuff too.

9th is probably the colour grade that introduces the least new material. That may well be intentional - you're just getting over the huge lump that is starting from scratch, but still really finding your feet. Sort of almost a rest period where you work on refinement before getting into the next stage.

I can say personally that while I maybe didn't learn as much new material, I certainly learned more about it (and myself) by having that time to work on it.

Effectively, it sounds like you get to 'shortcut' your 9th rather than your 10th, but that's not the test you skip - make sense?

My disagreement with skipping is based on the curriculum and timescales that we follow - obviously that's going to differ wherever you go, but that's the frame of reference I have...


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> I get what you're saying...
> 
> Our 9th doesn't introduce a whole raft of new stuff either, but there's an expectation that you'll be better (than you were) at the 10th stuff too.
> 
> 9th is probably the colour grade that introduces the least new material. That may well be intentional - you're just getting over the huge lump that is starting from scratch, but still really finding your feet. Sort of almost a rest period where you work on refinement before getting into the next stage.
> 
> I can say personally that while I maybe didn't learn as much new material, I certainly learned more about it (and myself) by having that time to work on it.
> 
> Effectively, it sounds like you get to 'shortcut' your 9th rather than your 10th, but that's not the test you skip - make sense?
> 
> My disagreement with skipping is based on the curriculum and timescales that we follow - obviously that's going to differ wherever you go, but that's the frame of reference I have...


I get what you’re saying too.  I agree with you’re views.  Maybe I haven’t explained my CI’s method right...
The only thing being skipped is the 9th kyu test and wearing the belt (we sew a patch on the odd number kyu belts rather than a stripe).  Time in grade, curriculum, and standards are same as if they tested for 9th kyu.  If they’re not ready for 8th kyu, they wait until they are.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> I get what you’re saying too.  I agree with you’re views.  Maybe I haven’t explained my CI’s method right...
> The only thing being skipped is the 9th kyu test and wearing the belt (we sew a patch on the odd number kyu belts rather than a stripe).  Time in grade, curriculum, and standards are same as if they tested for 9th kyu.  If they’re not ready for 8th kyu, they wait until they are.



Nah, that's fine.

I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said 

We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.

Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.

It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> Nah, that's fine.
> 
> I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said
> 
> We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.
> 
> Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.
> 
> It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)


I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night.  Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu.  I also skipped 7th kyu.  I was tested for each rank but those two.  But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school.  Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again.  Different teacher, different organization.  The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in.  I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways.  Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank.  My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things.  A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me.  Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school.  A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt.  After all, I did earn it under them.  I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start.  One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace.  I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.

I’ve been there 3 years.  Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week).  I think it’ll be closer to 2 years.  I’m in no rush.  Been there, done that.  So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.).  Most others do it in 6ish years.

My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing.  We test under our founder for dan ranks.  In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test.  A good number of people fail it from other schools.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night.  Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu.  I also skipped 7th kyu.  I was tested for each rank but those two.  But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school.  Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again.  Different teacher, different organization.  The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in.  I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways.  Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank.  My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things.  A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me.  Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school.  A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt.  After all, I did earn it under them.  I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start.  One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace.  I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.
> 
> I’ve been there 3 years.  Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week).  I think it’ll be closer to 2 years.  I’m in no rush.  Been there, done that.  So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.).  Most others do it in 6ish years.
> 
> My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing.  We test under our founder for dan ranks.  In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test.  A good number of people fail it from other schools.



And a lot of that there goes to the 'individual' part of my earlier statement 

You had fairly extensive and relevant prior knowledge, which you chose to reinforce properly.

That's where a skip can be justified imo.


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> And a lot of that there goes to the 'individual' part of my earlier statement
> 
> You had fairly extensive and relevant prior knowledge, which you chose to reinforce properly.
> 
> That's where a skip can be justified imo.



I can always get better.  Having a new belt won’t make me any better or worse.  I chased rank during my first stint.  Now I’m just chasing improvement.  I’m better in every way now than I was back then.  Except flexibility and some roundness   I’m faster, stronger, smarter, and can take a hit better.  

My CI offered to let me skip 5th kyu.  I said “with all due respect, it makes no difference to me.  Whatever you think is best.”  I didn’t skip the rank.  In the grand scheme of things, what would it have done?  Put me a few months closer to black belt?  What would that have done for me?  Being tested for 1st dan will be an honor, doesn’t matter when it happens.


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> Nah, that's fine.
> 
> I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said
> 
> We don't pay a huge amount to test, and I think the 'easy' first grading is good prep for the later ones too - different setup to class, in front of different people.
> 
> Neither way is bad, and I'm not saying the OPs is either. In a way, it'd be like if a KKW type 3rd kup (for example) came to our place, they'd likely do some sort of conversion testing rather than starting from absolute square one.
> 
> It only gets bad when you're put onto some sort of 'accelerated scheme' where you don't actually get to learn the material properly (the term 'black belt club' springs to mind...)


I forgot to mention earlier...  I never understood the whole “Black Belt Club” thing.  Isn’t everyone there preparing for a black belt?  Or at least they should be.  For the ones who are black belts, do they need a club?  Doesn’t the belt say that by itself?  Other than making the teacher extra money, I’m dumbfounded by it.  There’s probably something I’m missing here though.


----------



## pdg

JR 137 said:


> I forgot to mention earlier...  I never understood the whole “Black Belt Club” thing.  Isn’t everyone there preparing for a black belt?  Or at least they should be.  For the ones who are black belts, do they need a club?  Doesn’t the belt say that by itself?  Other than making the teacher extra money, I’m dumbfounded by it.  There’s probably something I’m missing here though.



Most times, I think it's a money thing.

They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...

Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...

The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

pdg said:


> I don't think I worded myself well - even I'm not sure I understand what I said


Clearly, you’ve read too many of my posts.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

pdg said:


> Most times, I think it's a money thing.
> 
> They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...
> 
> Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...
> 
> The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.


I remember seeing that in some of the old material I used to get - maybe NAPMA or MAIA? I think it was Steven Oliver. Anyway, it advocated having a BB club to increase revenue, with no justification of additional value (that I can recall) to the student.


----------



## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, and still training.  This is my third week, and I am pretty happy so far.  I like an exercise that engages the mind, and TKD seems to fit the bill there.  Some kicks are easier for my aging muscles and tendons to do.  I am doing more work before class loosening up my hips and groin.  Helps with the roundhouse and hook kicks. It is hard to tell yet, but I feel like my conditioning is already a bit better than it was my first week.
> 
> It really doesn't matter, but as far as belt testing goes, the master already told me I can skip over high white and test for yellow, probably as soon as next month.



That's really great to hear mate . Great to hear you're enjoying it, and also that you're looking after your body with extra warmups, and that you're conditioning is already improving. Keep at it 

Great news about your grading as well, it's quite an honour to be told you can skip, a credit to you. Keep us posted


----------



## _Simon_

JR 137 said:


> I just tested for and was promoted to 2nd kyu last night.  Like all the other adults, I skipped 9th kyu.  I also skipped 7th kyu.  I was tested for each rank but those two.  But there’s a catch... I was a 1st dan and preparing for my 2nd dan test when I left my previous dojo to go to grad school.  Almost 15 years later, I finally had time to start training again.  Different teacher, different organization.  The curriculum is about 90% identical between them, as the head of my previous organization left the organization I’m now in.  I remembered all my material (surprisingly) from back then; it was just a matter of getting the rust out and fine tuning it to my current organization’s ways.  Other than the 2 skipped ranks, I’ve easily met the minimum time in grade for every rank.  My current organization has a few things in addition to my previous organization’s syllabus, so for most ranks I’ve learned one or two new things.  A lot of places would’ve fast-tracked me.  Several offered when I made initial contact inquiring about their school.  A different dojo in my former organization (my former sensei moved the dojo too far away) would’ve allowed me to wear my black belt.  After all, I did earn it under them.  I didn’t want any of that; I wanted a fresh start.  One of the things that really turned me on to my current school was the CI said I’d start at white belt and progress at near a regular pace.  I might jump a rank or two, but I’m not going to get a black belt in record time.
> 
> I’ve been there 3 years.  Minimum time in grade until my 1st dan test is 18 months from now (it’s actually a number of classes thing, but 18 months would be 2-3 nights a week).  I think it’ll be closer to 2 years.  I’m in no rush.  Been there, done that.  So when all’s said and done, probably 5 years to 1st dan (so long as I don’t get seriously sick, injured, etc.).  Most others do it in 6ish years.
> 
> My teacher is more conservative than the norm in our organization when it comes to testing.  We test under our founder for dan ranks.  In his 30 years as a CI, he hasn’t had anyone fail a dan test.  A good number of people fail it from other schools.



CONGRATS on 2nd kyu, massive step! How did the grading go, how did you pull up the next day? Well done 

And great attitude to have regarding just wanting a fresh start, and not pushing to grade faster. I'm the same in that I'm there to learn and become better, sometimes looking only at the belts can stifle that true progress I reckon. And of course mainly there for the enjoyment of training itself, where it leads me is up to where it leads me


----------



## JR 137

pdg said:


> Most times, I think it's a money thing.
> 
> They can sell you, as a new starter, a guaranteed black belt for a fixed fee - "we'll provide as much training as you need" deal. Only, unfortunately, it seems common that they just lower the standards to get people through faster...
> 
> Or the 'club' for the black belts, where they pay extra per month so they can get a patch. Whoop-de-do...
> 
> The only thing remotely near that's offered where I go is periodic sets of additional classes where the instructors can focus on a particular grade/rank (we can attend any lower one, but nothing higher than the grade we hold). There's an additional fee, but knowing how many attend and things like how much the hall rent costs, they're not doing much over breaking even.


I understand the “black belt plans.”  Those are where you pay a set amount, and it covers tuition and testing fees all the way through your 1st dan.  A great idea on paper - pay a set amount, say $3k; no other charges until you’re promoted to 1st dan, except uniforms and other equipment.  If it takes the quoted average of 4-5 years or 20 years to get your 1st dan, it’s still the same $3k.

There’s several local TKD schools who do this.  One of them ONLY works this way.  Here’s the funny thing: they say 4-5 years on average, yet I haven’t met anyone who did it in more than 2 1/2 years.  Except my uncle   He was paying monthly, then a year later figured out the black belt plan was cheaper, so he signed up.  Oddly enough, once he signed that contract, he was promoted in less than half the required time, every time.  They kept telling him he’s learning really fast and he shouldn’t be held back.  2 years in, and suddenly he’s ready for his 1st dan test.  When he figured out their scam, he started telling them he’s not ready yet.  He wore his red belt for 3 years, refusing to test for 1st dan.  He figured they told him it would be 5 years, so it should take 5 years.  Finally after his 5 year total, he tested and passed his 1st dan test.  Then came another scam - his test was included in the fee, but the actual belt wasn’t (unlike the colored belts).   They wanted $250 for his belt. He laughed and told them to keep it.

I’ve heard the same thing from others in those plans from other places.  It’ll take 5 years at a month to month or annual tuition plan.  It’ll take 2 and a half under the black belt plan.  Then comes the 2nd dan plan.  Pathetic.


----------



## JR 137

_Simon_ said:


> CONGRATS on 2nd kyu, massive step! How did the grading go, how did you pull up the next day? Well done
> 
> And great attitude to have regarding just wanting a fresh start, and not pushing to grade faster. I'm the same in that I'm there to learn and become better, sometimes looking only at the belts can stifle that true progress I reckon. And of course mainly there for the enjoyment of training itself, where it leads me is up to where it leads me


Thanks, Simon.  

The test went great.  Other than the sparring, it was actually the least physically demanding test I’ve taken.  There were 4 of us testing.  Each of us had a 4th dan and up at our side at all times.  I had our CI’s right hand man with me all night.  I did every standardized thing - every kata, 1 step, yakusoku kumite, kihon kumite, etc. in our syllabus with him (6th dan) following me and critiquing me.  Over a full hour of it.  He did every partner drill with me, making sure if I didn’t block properly I was going to get hit, which happened twice.  For the first time, there weren’t any curveballs; it was all straight forward ‘show me x.  Go.’

Then we sparred - 2 shodans, 2 yondans, and 1 6th dan.  3 minute rounds, going through the line of them twice.  So 30 minutes straight; the only break was bowing to start, get back to the line, and bowing to finish.  They didn’t take it easy.  But they certainly didn’t treat me like a punching bag either.

I physically feel fine today.  I noticed several new bruises when I put my forearms on my desk though   I guess the adrenaline masked it last night.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Thanks, Simon.
> 
> The test went great.  Other than the sparring, it was actually the least physically demanding test I’ve taken.  There were 4 of us testing.  Each of us had a 4th dan and up at our side at all times.  I had our CI’s right hand man with me all night.  I did every standardized thing - every kata, 1 step, yakusoku kumite, kihon kumite, etc. in our syllabus with him (6th dan) following me and critiquing me.  Over a full hour of it.  He did every partner drill with me, making sure if I didn’t block properly I was going to get hit, which happened twice.  For the first time, there weren’t any curveballs; it was all straight forward ‘show me x.  Go.’
> 
> Then we sparred - 2 shodans, 2 yondans, and 1 6th dan.  3 minute rounds, going through the line of them twice.  So 30 minutes straight; the only break was bowing to start, get back to the line, and bowing to finish.  They didn’t take it easy.  But they certainly didn’t treat me like a punching bag either.
> 
> I physically feel fine today.  I noticed several new bruises when I put my forearms on my desk though   I guess the adrenaline masked it last night.


Sounds like a tough test you were well prepared for.


----------



## JR 137

gpseymour said:


> Sounds like a tough test you were well prepared for.


Not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I know the material very well (a lot of that comes from my previous experience).  Had I not known it well, it would’ve been a very long night.  One of the others testing made a few mistakes.  Every time he did, it was along the lines of “that’s supposed to be a high punch, not a middle punch.  Start over.”  Oddly enough I didn’t make any mistakes like that, so I didn’t repeat anything.  It was just so odd in that everything was so straightforward.  I was actually waiting for a huge curveball that never came.

The only time I didn’t have that 6th dan stuck to me like Velcro was when my CI told the black belts to put on their sparring gear and warm up.  We did about 5-10 minutes of kihon during that time.  Then it was straight into sparring.  That’s when it got physically tough. 

The oddest test I’ve taken.  In a good way though.


----------



## Tames D

JR 137 said:


> Thanks, Simon.
> 
> The test went great.  Other than the sparring, it was actually the least physically demanding test I’ve taken.  There were 4 of us testing.  Each of us had a 4th dan and up at our side at all times.  I had our CI’s right hand man with me all night.  I did every standardized thing - every kata, 1 step, yakusoku kumite, kihon kumite, etc. in our syllabus with him (6th dan) following me and critiquing me.  Over a full hour of it.  He did every partner drill with me, making sure if I didn’t block properly I was going to get hit, which happened twice.  For the first time, there weren’t any curveballs; it was all straight forward ‘show me x.  Go.’
> 
> Then we sparred - 2 shodans, 2 yondans, and 1 6th dan.  3 minute rounds, going through the line of them twice.  So 30 minutes straight; the only break was bowing to start, get back to the line, and bowing to finish.  They didn’t take it easy.  But they certainly didn’t treat me like a punching bag either.
> 
> I physically feel fine today.  I noticed several new bruises when I put my forearms on my desk though   I guess the adrenaline masked it last night.


Congrats!


----------



## _Simon_

JR 137 said:


> Thanks, Simon.
> 
> The test went great.  Other than the sparring, it was actually the least physically demanding test I’ve taken.  There were 4 of us testing.  Each of us had a 4th dan and up at our side at all times.  I had our CI’s right hand man with me all night.  I did every standardized thing - every kata, 1 step, yakusoku kumite, kihon kumite, etc. in our syllabus with him (6th dan) following me and critiquing me.  Over a full hour of it.  He did every partner drill with me, making sure if I didn’t block properly I was going to get hit, which happened twice.  For the first time, there weren’t any curveballs; it was all straight forward ‘show me x.  Go.’
> 
> Then we sparred - 2 shodans, 2 yondans, and 1 6th dan.  3 minute rounds, going through the line of them twice.  So 30 minutes straight; the only break was bowing to start, get back to the line, and bowing to finish.  They didn’t take it easy.  But they certainly didn’t treat me like a punching bag either.
> 
> I physically feel fine today.  I noticed several new bruises when I put my forearms on my desk though   I guess the adrenaline masked it last night.



Ah that's awesome to hear. Whenever those curveballs are thrown in there that's when I get shocked haha. Like one junior grading we started out having to do a supported handstand for a minute, something that was only usually a senior grading (4th kyu and up) thing. Or a another where our 'warmup' was doing something like 100 mae keage and yoko keage..

Yeah can be daunting when you're watched so closely, but great that he was that committed to you doing well.

Ah the sparring is always fun haha.. absolutely exhausting but it flies by in a whirlwind hey! Yet lasts an eternity too somehow XD. I love hearing about other people's gradings..

Good on ya


----------



## JR 137

Tames D said:


> Congrats!


Thanks, Tames.


----------



## mrt2

Third update.  Still here and still training.  So instead of waiting a month and testing for yellow next month (which is what I thought I was going to do), the master told me to test this week for high white, which I did. So, apparently, I don't get to skip ranks, but he did promote me a rank after just 4 weeks of training.  I thought I was going to wait another month then test for yellow.  No real explanation as I was told different things from the master and various assistant instructors, including the master's son over the last couple of weeks, but I guess it doesn't really matter since at this juncture, I think I am the lowest ranking adult at the dojang, whatever belt I earn.

I did run into a guy I know from my work the other day picking up his young son from TKD.  He told me he used to practice MA 30 or 35 years ago.  I suggested he join as it would give him a chance to train with his son, and besides, he and I would be perfect sparring partners as we are both about the same age, size, and skill level.  He said he would think about it.


----------



## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Third update.  Still here and still training.  So instead of waiting a month and testing for yellow next month (which is what I thought I was going to do), the master told me to test this week for high white, which I did. So, apparently, I don't get to skip ranks, but he did promote me a rank after just 4 weeks of training.  I thought I was going to wait another month then test for yellow.  No real explanation as I was told different things from the master and various assistant instructors, including the master's son over the last couple of weeks, but I guess it doesn't really matter since at this juncture, I think I am the lowest ranking adult at the dojang, whatever belt I earn.
> 
> I did run into a guy I know from my work the other day picking up his young son from TKD.  He told me he used to practice MA 30 or 35 years ago.  I suggested he join as it would give him a chance to train with his son, and besides, he and I would be perfect sparring partners as we are both about the same age, size, and skill level.  He said he would think about it.



Ah nice mate, congratulations on your grading . Still props to you, they must have felt like you were ready for it. Great work on your progress


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## JR 137

mrt2 said:


> Third update.  Still here and still training.  So instead of waiting a month and testing for yellow next month (which is what I thought I was going to do), the master told me to test this week for high white, which I did. So, apparently, I don't get to skip ranks, but he did promote me a rank after just 4 weeks of training.  I thought I was going to wait another month then test for yellow.  No real explanation as I was told different things from the master and various assistant instructors, including the master's son over the last couple of weeks, but I guess it doesn't really matter since at this juncture, I think I am the lowest ranking adult at the dojang, whatever belt I earn.
> 
> I did run into a guy I know from my work the other day picking up his young son from TKD.  He told me he used to practice MA 30 or 35 years ago.  I suggested he join as it would give him a chance to train with his son, and besides, he and I would be perfect sparring partners as we are both about the same age, size, and skill level.  He said he would think about it.


A ton of people “think about it.”  I hate to be that guy, but don’t get your hopes up.

Congratulations on the promotion.  My advice is don’t get caught up in the whole belt color/rank and timetable thing.  It’ll all work itself out.  And regarding what a few different instructors and the head guy’s son told you, you’ll learn quickly to take all of that with a grain of salt and just go by what the CI (chief instructor) says and does.


----------



## Headhunter

JR 137 said:


> A ton of people “think about it.”  I hate to be that guy, but don’t get your hopes up.
> 
> Congratulations on the promotion.  My advice is don’t get caught up in the whole belt color/rank and timetable thing.  It’ll all work itself out.  And regarding what a few different instructors and the head guy’s son told you, you’ll learn quickly to take all of that with a grain of salt and just go by what the CI (chief instructor) says and does.


God no joke there....I remember when I was younger when I first started kenpo I had a friend who started training before me...he didn't want to be there his parents forced him. He liked the idea of doing karate but put no work or no effort in and he was given his belts because the instructor worked for his dad which pissed me off because I always put 100% into every test I ever did but anyway.

He eventually stopped coming when he was old enough I carried on and trained in other styles as well he'd get in contact every few months saying hey I'm going to come train but when it came to it he had an excuse every time so I just started ignoring him. I hate people like that if you want to train come and train if you don't then don't waste my time saying you're coming


----------



## mrt2

Headhunter said:


> God no joke there...*.I remember when I was younger when I first started kenpo I had a friend who started training before me*...he didn't want to be there his parents forced him. He liked the idea of doing karate but put no work or no effort in and he was given his belts because the instructor worked for his dad which pissed me off because I always put 100% into every test I ever did but anyway.
> 
> He eventually stopped coming when he was old enough I carried on and trained in other styles as well he'd get in contact every few months saying hey I'm going to come train but when it came to it he had an excuse every time so I just started ignoring him. I hate people like that if you want to train come and train if you don't then don't waste my time saying you're coming


Actually I can relate.  Way back when I studied Tang Soo Do, there was a guy who convinced me to train with him, except that he was like your friend; he liked the idea of practicing Martial Arts, but didn't especially like to put in the work.  After we tested for orange he started to lose interest, since we no longer were in white belt class and thus, the workouts became a bit more strenuous.  Then one day on one of the rare days he actually showed up, he started to give me crap after class about how I needed to show him more respect.  Respect for what?  Anyway, we put our uniforms back on and settled our dispute in the dojang.  I don't remember how our little sparring match ended.  Probably pretty pathetic display, but a higher colored belt, I think maybe a high green or red belt saw what happened and a few weeks later told me I am better off not wasting my time with guys like that, that guys like that come and go, but they don't usually last.

But that is a case of youth and immaturity.  In the case of guys my age who are thinking about it, the thought process might be a little different.  Until I got started, I wondered if 1. I still could physically do martial arts, 2. if I was going to hurt myself, or just look ridiculous.  So I found out the answers, are 1 yes, 2  no, and 3 probably yes.


----------



## mrt2

Ok, so update.  Feeling pretty good about things right now.  If things go as planned, I will likely test for yellow belt next month.  After that, the intervals might get longer between tests, which is fine as I cannot race through the ranks.  I haven't trained in 35 years.  It is going to take some time to get back.  And besides, TKD has a lot of curriculum I still need to learn and master so all that will take time..  (Forms, basics, kick combos, one steps, linears).

So, I didn't pull a hamstring or groin throwing my first kick.  But most of my kicks are waist high at best.   And I have a ways to go on my conditioning as well.  (this is part of why I did this)

So my immediate goals are.  
1. To not be the lowest ranking adult at my dojang.  This might happen if some adult joins tomorrow, or it might happen because some adults don't train that often, and hence don't test that often.  
2.  To not be the fattest guy in every class.  This will take some work as there aren't many guys over 250 lbs training, which means I need to lose 50 or 60 lbs.


----------



## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Ok, so update.  Feeling pretty good about things right now.  If things go as planned, I will likely test for yellow belt next month.  After that, the intervals might get longer between tests, which is fine as I cannot race through the ranks.  I haven't trained in 35 years.  It is going to take some time to get back.  And besides, TKD has a lot of curriculum I still need to learn and master so all that will take time..  (Forms, basics, kick combos, one steps, linears).
> 
> So, I didn't pull a hamstring or groin throwing my first kick.  But most of my kicks are waist high at best.   And I have a ways to go on my conditioning as well.  (this is part of why I did this)
> 
> So my immediate goals are.
> 1. To not be the lowest ranking adult at my dojang.  This might happen if some adult joins tomorrow, or it might happen because some adults don't train that often, and hence don't test that often.
> 2.  To not be the fattest guy in every class.  This will take some work as there aren't many guys over 250 lbs training, which means I need to lose 50 or 60 lbs.


Great stuff mate, am enjoying reading your updates, keep em comin .

And yeah I reckon just take your time with it all there's no rush, especially your grade and also your weight too.


----------



## kravmaga1

Learning martial arts after the age of 50 is ok. If you want to do it, then definitely do it.But before then you should understand the capability of your body. If you have the capability and the potential, then go for it.


----------



## Ryan_

"Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus? Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?"

I can't comment on the hiatus.. I'm not even 20 years old, nevermind being able to have a hiatus that long. However, I did have a 4 year hiatus which led to me switching my style from Choi Kwang Do to Ninpo Taijutsu and no, I don't think there will be any issues provided you find an art which is suitable for your capabilities and that the instructor is competent. An instructor being half your age is not a problem if they know what they are teaching and are well-qualified.


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## mrt2

Another update.  So I just took and passed my test for yellow belt.  Even broke a board.  First board break since 1982.  Last board break I did was a jump kick over my head.  Todays was a side kick just about waist high.  But I broke it cleanly.

The Master did mildly reprimand me on my citing the meaning of my yellow belt form.  So I read the short paragraph, memorized the main points, and recited them back in bullet point form.  The Master said, next time, recite the meaning of the form EXACTLY how it is written on the page of the student manual.  That surprised me.  I figured the rote memorization thing was something he did for his younger students.   But, his school, his rules.


----------



## Dirty Dog

mrt2 said:


> Another update.  So I just took and passed my test for yellow belt.  Even broke a board.  First board break since 1982.  Last board break I did was a jump kick over my head.  Todays was a side kick just about waist high.  But I broke it cleanly.
> 
> The Master did mildly reprimand me on my citing the meaning of my yellow belt form.  So I read the short paragraph, memorized the main points, and recited them back in bullet point form.  The Master said, next time, recite the meaning of the form EXACTLY how it is written on the page of the student manual.  That surprised me.  I figured the rote memorization thing was something he did for his younger students.   But, his school, his rules.



Congrats on the test and the break.
His school, his rules, yes. But it does seem odd to me. What was the form and what was the meaning?


----------



## Headhunter

mrt2 said:


> Another update.  So I just took and passed my test for yellow belt.  Even broke a board.  First board break since 1982.  Last board break I did was a jump kick over my head.  Todays was a side kick just about waist high.  But I broke it cleanly.
> 
> The Master did mildly reprimand me on my citing the meaning of my yellow belt form.  So I read the short paragraph, memorized the main points, and recited them back in bullet point form.  The Master said, next time, recite the meaning of the form EXACTLY how it is written on the page of the student manual.  That surprised me.  I figured the rote memorization thing was something he did for his younger students.   But, his school, his rules.


Congrats...hmm that's a bit weird having to word for word recite a form meaning from a book...I could understand that for black belt I guess but not yellow belt and even then word for word seems a bit extreme as long as you can explain it


----------



## mrt2

Dirty Dog said:


> Congrats on the test and the break.
> His school, his rules, yes. But it does seem odd to me. *What was the form and what was the meaning*?


Chon - Ji, which means Heaven and Earth.


----------



## Dirty Dog

mrt2 said:


> Chon - Ji, which means Heaven and Earth.



That's certainly one commonly used definition. Although, if I'm not mistaken, chonji (천지) literally translates as "world" with no reference to Heaven. I've also heard it translated as "heaven-light" (not Heaven-Lite, before someone makes that pun...). From those literal translations, I can see how you'd get to "heaven & earth." 
Again, it's interesting that rote memorization is expected.


----------



## pdg

As with much, direct translation is difficult to impossible - there are many translations depending on whether it's taken as a single two syllable word, or if the syllables are taken as separate words, or if it's hyphenated, and some of the meanings are entirely contextual...


----------



## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Another update.  So I just took and passed my test for yellow belt.  Even broke a board.  First board break since 1982.  Last board break I did was a jump kick over my head.  Todays was a side kick just about waist high.  But I broke it cleanly.
> 
> The Master did mildly reprimand me on my citing the meaning of my yellow belt form.  So I read the short paragraph, memorized the main points, and recited them back in bullet point form.  The Master said, next time, recite the meaning of the form EXACTLY how it is written on the page of the student manual.  That surprised me.  I figured the rote memorization thing was something he did for his younger students.   But, his school, his rules.



Well done mate that's really awesome to hear, sounds like you aced it!

And yes the word for word seems strange but ah well, all else got you the new grade, congrats


----------



## mrt2

OK, another update.  Mostly feeling pretty good.  No longer a white belt.  I know I have a long ways to go to get back to where I was 3 plus decades ago, both fitness and flexibility wise. 

But I am struggling to continue with a beginner's mindset.  I realize this is pride f-cking with me, but I cannot help it.  I didn't think I would care, but I am chomping at the bit to advance.  Why?  Because most of the yellow and high yellow belts suck.  In the eyes of my instructors, do I suck as bad as they do?  I sure hope not.

Anyway, I pretty have my next form down, both the pattern and the movements.  These beginner forms are ridiculously easy.  Again, I know, this is pride, but I see other yellow belts struggling to figure out these forms for months, and I don't understand why.  I think it is the hundreds of hours I put into doing similar or identical forms 35 years ago.  So again, I think this is pride f-cking with me.

On a somewhat separate note, another one of the ways I have figured out these beginner forms is to watch videos on youtube when I am just killing time, like waiting for a client to show up or waiting for a case to be called, and just spend a few minutes watching a youtube of one of my forms.  I know this is a hack, but there are different ways of learning, and watching someone who knows what they are doing is a way of supporting the traditional approach.  Interestingly, I mentioned this to an assistant instructor, and she strongly disapproved, telling me not to do that.  I understand why a martial arts school wants to be the gatekeeper of all things MA, but I think that ship has sailed. 

So again, I know this is pride and from the perspective of my master and other black belts who have been practicing for years, I must suck just as bad, or almost as bad as the other yellows and high yellows.  And I might get smacked down for this if I let it show too much in class, but I need to at least address it and deal with it.


----------



## jobo

mrt2 said:


> OK, another update.  Mostly feeling pretty good.  No longer a white belt.  I know I have a long ways to go to get back to where I was 3 plus decades ago, both fitness and flexibility wise.
> 
> But I am struggling to continue with a beginner's mindset.  I realize this is pride f-cking with me, but I cannot help it.  I didn't think I would care, but I am chomping at the bit to advance.  Why?  Because most of the yellow and high yellow belts suck.  In the eyes of my instructors, do I suck as bad as they do?  I sure hope not.
> 
> Anyway, I pretty have my next form down, both the pattern and the movements.  These beginner forms are ridiculously easy.  Again, I know, this is pride, but I see other yellow belts struggling to figure out these forms for months, and I don't understand why.  I think it is the hundreds of hours I put into doing similar or identical forms 35 years ago.  So again, I think this is pride f-cking with me.
> 
> On a somewhat separate note, another one of the ways I have figured out these beginner forms is to watch videos on youtube when I am just killing time, like waiting for a client to show up or waiting for a case to be called, and just spend a few minutes watching a youtube of one of my forms.  I know this is a hack, but there are different ways of learning, and watching someone who knows what they are doing is a way of supporting the traditional approach.  Interestingly, I mentioned this to an assistant instructor, and she strongly disapproved, telling me not to do that.  I understand why a martial arts school wants to be the gatekeeper of all things MA, but I think that ship has sailed.
> 
> So again, I know this is pride and from the perspective of my master and other black belts who have been practicing for years, I must suck just as bad, or almost as bad as the other yellows and high yellows.  And I might get smacked down for this if I let it show too much in class, but I need to at least address it and deal with it.


Your seeking validation through the belt system, don't get caught up in that nonsense, you are as good as your are , that you share a grade with some who " suck" makes no difference to that.

 your school promotes quickly, in some you would have been a white belt for 12months, even if you could give the instructOr a good hiding,


----------



## Headhunter

mrt2 said:


> OK, another update.  Mostly feeling pretty good.  No longer a white belt.  I know I have a long ways to go to get back to where I was 3 plus decades ago, both fitness and flexibility wise.
> 
> But I am struggling to continue with a beginner's mindset.  I realize this is pride f-cking with me, but I cannot help it.  I didn't think I would care, but I am chomping at the bit to advance.  Why?  Because most of the yellow and high yellow belts suck.  In the eyes of my instructors, do I suck as bad as they do?  I sure hope not.
> 
> Anyway, I pretty have my next form down, both the pattern and the movements.  These beginner forms are ridiculously easy.  Again, I know, this is pride, but I see other yellow belts struggling to figure out these forms for months, and I don't understand why.  I think it is the hundreds of hours I put into doing similar or identical forms 35 years ago.  So again, I think this is pride f-cking with me.
> 
> On a somewhat separate note, another one of the ways I have figured out these beginner forms is to watch videos on youtube when I am just killing time, like waiting for a client to show up or waiting for a case to be called, and just spend a few minutes watching a youtube of one of my forms.  I know this is a hack, but there are different ways of learning, and watching someone who knows what they are doing is a way of supporting the traditional approach.  Interestingly, I mentioned this to an assistant instructor, and she strongly disapproved, telling me not to do that.  I understand why a martial arts school wants to be the gatekeeper of all things MA, but I think that ship has sailed.
> 
> So again, I know this is pride and from the perspective of my master and other black belts who have been practicing for years, I must suck just as bad, or almost as bad as the other yellows and high yellows.  And I might get smacked down for this if I let it show too much in class, but I need to at least address it and deal with it.


Who cares what they think and honestly yeah that's a rubbish attitude you've got saying they suck...you ask if in your instructors eyes you suck well maybe you should be asking this in his eyes do they suck? Just because you think they do doesn't mean it's true and that they don't deserve their belt.

Also the reason they say not to learn online is because it'll teach you mistakes for your own training. Every school does forms different maybe that video is correct for the uploaded school but it probably isn't for yours


----------



## mrt2

Headhunter said:


> W*ho cares what they think and honestly yeah that's a rubbish attitude you've got saying they suck...you ask if in your instructors eyes you suck well maybe you should be asking this in his eyes do they suck? Just because you think they do doesn't mean it's true and that they don't deserve their belt.*
> 
> Also the reason they say not to learn online is because it'll teach you mistakes for your own training. Every school does forms different maybe that video is correct for the uploaded school but it probably isn't for yours


Look.  We are all on a journey.  I am not saying these other yellow or high yellow belts haven't worked for their belts, or haven't progressed because I don't know where they started.  I was just making an observation.  From what I can see, they suck.  As in, they have trouble throwing a kick properly, or correctly throwing a punch or block from a front or back stance.  And I am not saying I don't suck.  From the perspective of my master, who is a 6th Dan, or the instructors who are 3rd or 2nd Dans, I suck too, I have no doubt. 

As for these differences in forms, that very well might be true.  And I am not suggesting watching youtubes is any kind of substitute for good instruction.


----------



## mrt2

jobo said:


> *Your seeking validation through the belt system, don't get caught up in that nonsense, *you are as good as your are , that you share a grade with some who " suck" makes no difference to that.
> 
> your school promotes quickly, in some you would have been a white belt for 12months, even if you could give the instructOr a good hiding,


That is true but, your belt determines what they will teach you.


----------



## jobo

mrt2 said:


> That is true but, your belt determines what they will teach you.


But if your learning and improving your at the right level, as long as you get promoted before it gets to the point where learning has stopped and it gets dull, those sucky people might run parallel with you for a good while yet, just be please your the best yellow belt in the state


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## mrt2

Update.  Did my first sparring last night, and it was a surprise old school no pads sparring.  Some of the younger people in the class gasped, as they felt naked sparring without pads and headgear, but I liked it.  Like an old school sparring session from the early 80s.  

Given that this is my first sparring session since 1982, things went OK.  I stuck with basic kicks, mostly off the front leg, and punches, and focused as much on blocking or avoiding the opponents' attacks.  No mishaps, and no knees or shins colliding.  My first sparring was against on of the older guys, and I held my own.  The second fight was against a child.  The master did that on purpose, pitting children against adults.  I think it was for the benefit of the children.  The third fight was against a 16 year old green belt who threw hard kicks, but wildly.  He kept getting upset at me because I was blocking his kicks too hard.  He kept telling me it was supposed to be light contact.  I told him I still have a right not to get kicked in the ribs, or face.  Fortunately, that was the last fight because I was starting to get gassed and my calf muscles were starting to cramp up, but it was good to finally get a chance to spar.


----------



## jobo

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Did my first sparring last night, and it was a surprise old school no pads sparring.  Some of the younger people in the class gasped, as they felt naked sparring without pads and headgear, but I liked it.  Like an old school sparring session from the early 80s.
> 
> Given that this is my first sparring session since 1982, things went OK.  I stuck with basic kicks, mostly off the front leg, and punches, and focused as much on blocking or avoiding the opponents' attacks.  No mishaps, and no knees or shins colliding.  My first sparring was against on of the older guys, and I held my own.  The second fight was against a child.  The master did that on purpose, pitting children against adults.  I think it was for the benefit of the children.  The third fight was against a 16 year old green belt who threw hard kicks, but wildly.  He kept getting upset at me because I was blocking his kicks too hard.  He kept telling me it was supposed to be light contact.  I told him I still have a right not to get kicked in the ribs, or face.  Fortunately, that was the last fight because I was starting to get gassed and my calf muscles were starting to cramp up, but it was good to finally get a chance to spar.


Yes I've had people throwing hard punches at me complain bitterly that my blocks hurt, it never occurs to them that the bulk of the kinetic energy comes from their punch


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> Greetings, martial arts practitioners.
> 
> Here is my story.
> 
> 35 years ago, I walked into Yi's Tang Soo Do in Cherry Hill NJ as a chubby 14 year old.      I eventually reached the rank of Cho Dan Bo.  I ultimately left because I was headed to college, and I no longer had the time to train, and after college, became involved in other activities. Until recently, I hadn't really given martial arts much thought, but I am seriously thinking about getting back into it, before age and decay make it too late.
> 
> I have become bored with my gym routine recently and was thinking about trying martial arts again.  I hope to lose some weight and regain some of the flexibility I have lost due to age and gaining weight.  While I appreciate the self defense aspect of martial arts, it is less important to me at this stage of life to be able to kick someone's butt (hence I don't want to do MMA), than it is to be physically strong, and mentally sharp.  And I hope to find a physical activity to compliment my favorite form of exercise, which is  riding my bicycle.   Now, I am 52 years old, and probably weigh 80 lbs more than I did back when I studied Tang Soo Do.  And I know I lack the flexibility I once had, both due to age, and weight gain.
> 
> As for general health, I go for regular checkups and while I have some minor injuries, like a bad rotator cuff, I don't have any injuries that would preclude me from trying martial arts again.  I have some aerobic fitness because I do ride my bicycle regularly from the Spring through the Fall at least 3 days a week for an hour or more.  And it has helped with aerobic fitness and mental well being as there is nothing so nice as a 2 or 3 hour bike ride on a warm summer day.  But after 5 plus years of regular bike riding, my physique is mostly the same.  (strong legs, flabby upper body)  And while it is great for developing endurance,  I know I have lost a lot of quickness, flexibility, and strength.  I am also interested in the mental benefits of martial arts.  I know remaining active has mental benefits, but I am thinking something like martial arts will work my brain in ways it hasn't been worked in some time.
> 
> I did a little research and it looks like there are limited opportunities to practice Tang Soo Do where I live, so I will likely be switching to Tae Kwon Do.
> 
> Has anybody else returned to martial arts after a 30 plus year hiatus?  Anybody switch from one style to another? Any issues that have come up (other than perhaps instructors who are half your age)?
> 
> Thanks much for your time.



You mention your rank. Most styles would consider you a serious beginner. I would encourage you to focus and come to terms with the second word, beginner. Not in any bad connotation. It is often difficult for even the mildly seasoned practitioner to start back after a long break, more so from the mental aspect of "I know that" or "I did that all the time". Remember the repetitive nature of learning MA. Don't expect to jump to the experience level you were, especially in forms. It is very important to take the time to polish and hone the individual moves/skills that make up the complexity of any MA style. Re-learn your poomse one move at a time instead of trying to recapture the entire form in one session. Patience. The same for one step/self defense practice. Sparring is where your current physical condition should become apparent. Start at the pace  you feel confident in but, again, remember to be willing to re-learn moves and technique along the way. If style is not important to you then changing styles will force much of this.


----------



## dvcochran

Dirty Dog said:


> There is a functional aspect, I'm sure...
> I do a lot of diving. It's nice to be able to remove your wetsuit between dives, or after your last dive. But wearing a conventional swim suit or board shorts under a wetsuit is uncomfortable. Things tend to bunch up. Now, a lot of men deal with this by wearing a banana hammock. Which I personally do not care to do. My solution is to wear compression shorts (which are essentially spandex) under my suit. I keep a pair of board shorts and a T shirt in my dry bag. I can easily pull the wetsuit off and get dressed without offending anyones sensibilities. Because let's face it. Wearing a budgie smuggler on a dive boat really should be a no-no.
> I suspect jeans or regular shorts have similar drawbacks when biking.



Dirty Dog; I too am an avid diver. Master and rescue certified. I have 6xx dives. Where do you do most of your diving?


----------



## mrt2

dvcochran said:


> *You mention your rank. Most styles would consider you a serious beginner. *I would encourage you to focus and come to terms with the second word, beginner. Not in any bad connotation. It is often difficult for even the mildly seasoned practitioner to start back after a long break, more so from the mental aspect of "I know that" or "I did that all the time". Remember the repetitive nature of learning MA. Don't expect to jump to the experience level you were, especially in forms. It is very important to take the time to polish and hone the individual moves/skills that make up the complexity of any MA style. Re-learn your poomse one move at a time instead of trying to recapture the entire form in one session. Patience. The same for one step/self defense practice. Sparring is where your current physical condition should become apparent. Start at the pace  you feel confident in but, again, remember to be willing to re-learn moves and technique along the way. If style is not important to you then changing styles will force much of this.


In the scheme of things, this is probably correct.  I did train for almost 3 years.  And that was back in the day before they handed out black belts to kids just for showing up.  I was a teenager, but never felt ready to test for black belt.  I shouldn't criticize.  My new school will take the money to teach children, but to my teacher's credit, at least in the adult classes, he expects a level of skill commensurate with belt level.  For the first time, I saw him demote a kid who showed up for class unprepared to train.  The master took him out of line and told him to practice on his own.  Then told him to line up for forms, and he made several mistakes.  So the master told him to take off his belt and from now on, wear his previous belt until further notice.

I am coming up on 3 months since I started this thread, so most of the fear of starting back is gone.  Tae Kwon Do is now a part of my routine.  3, sometimes 4 days a week.  The basic stances, punches, kicks, and blocks are similar, almost identical to what I used to practice.  The forms are similar, but different enough that I have to learn them slowly,  My teacher has so far allowed me to test every month, so I am advancing quickly.  At first, he told me that after I made yellow belt, the testing schedule would slow down but after I made yellow, I learned the yellow belt form quickly, and because the last few weeks, I stepped up my attendance to 4 days/week, my teacher said I can continue on the accelerated testing schedule for another 1 or 2 tests.  At some point, this will have to slow down, as I don't want to be a brown belt by the end of the year.  That would be nuts.  That said, it isn't ridiculous to look to make brown belt by this time next year.


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## mrt2

So, another test.  Here is a picture from my high yellow belt test. My teacher is doing what he said he would, moving my up quickly.  Next test is for green belt.


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## jobo

mrt2 said:


> So, another test.  Here is a picture from my high yellow belt test. My teacher is doing what he said he would, moving my up quickly.  Next test is for green belt.


Think you need a longer belt


----------



## lianxi

jobo said:


> Your seeking validation through the belt system, don't get caught up in that nonsense, you are as good as your are , that you share a grade with some who " suck" makes no difference



I agree completely with this - don't seek validation from belts and just as important - don't seek it here, but rather from your own mind and body. Congrats on resuming your training at this age - I'm 64 - you may find, as I did, that as you age, many of the real treasures of martial arts will manifest and that they can be very private and personal. Thanks for sharing your experiences - but it's a long journey - don't fear going completely unnoticed by others as a martial artist.


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## Deafdude#5

Congratulations on restarting your journey through martial arts. I also did karate in my youth then quit only to take TKD later on.

My only advice is to take it slow, spend more time prepping your body in terms of cardio, stretching & diet. It’s a tough path but very rewarding. Just remember that what you knew then is not the same as what you are learning now.

Good luck and keep fighting!


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## mrt2

Deafdude#5 said:


> Congratulations on restarting your journey through martial arts. I also did karate in my youth then quit only to take TKD later on.
> 
> My only advice is to take it slow, spend more time prepping your body in terms of cardio, stretching & diet. It’s a tough path but very rewarding. *Just remember that what you knew then is not the same as what you are learning now*.
> 
> Good luck and keep fighting!


Actually, it isn't all that different.  TSD and TKD are really pretty similar.


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## Deafdude#5

Yes, they are similar but you and your body are not the same as it was 35 years ago.

Also, different schools teach the same forms differently. I’ve had 2 different TKD schools teach me the same forms with noticeable differences.

Good luck!


----------



## mrt2

Deafdude#5 said:


> Yes, they are similar but you and your body are not the same as it was 35 years ago.
> 
> Also, *different schools teach the same forms differently*. I’ve had 2 different TKD schools teach me the same forms with noticeable differences.
> 
> Good luck!


That is true.  My current school does ITF forms, where as Tang Soo Do taught the older Pyong Ahn forms.


----------



## amita

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm older than you, have taken more than one break, and have trained in more than one art.
> You're not going to find TKD all that much different, in practice, to TSD. The forms will likely be different, in that TSD uses the turtle forms, which are not commonly used by TKD schools. But given that the Moo Duk Kwan (the source of TSD) was the largest of the original Kwan involved in the development of TKD, it's not surprising that there's a lot of overlap in the underlying principles.
> You don't say where you are, but there are MDK schools all over the US. Depending on the history and lineage of their particular branch of the MDK, these schools may use the pinan, palgwae or taegeuk poomsae for colored belts.
> Age of the instructor shouldn't be an issue. I learn from people a fraction of my age all the time.
> As for the particular style of the dobak used... meh.... get over it, frankly. It's not a fashion show.
> As for your age... forget it. You're just too old.
> Kidding.
> We recently promoted a woman to 1st Dan. She's 73. She used to bring her grandson to class, and when he lost interest (at 3rd geup, if memory serves) she kept coming. She was 65-ish when she took her first class.


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## amita

Thanks for this information.  Gives me hope.


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## mrt2

OK, folks.  Still here, still training.  Tested for Green Belt (6th Gup) and passed!  No real surprises except that because I was the oldest person and the highest ranked person at the test, I had to know all the sparring combinations on the bag and call them out.  But it was fine.  I pretty much committed the first 12 to memory, and I only had to do 8 for the test.  Forms were uneventful for me.  I broke my board on the first try.  I think this may be the last of the quick promotions. which is fine.  Green belt was a major goal for me.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> OK, folks.  Still here, still training.  Tested for Green Belt (6th Gup) and passed!  No real surprises except that because I was the oldest person and the highest ranked person at the test, I had to know all the sparring combinations on the bag and call them out.  But it was fine.  I pretty much committed the first 12 to memory, and I only had to do 8 for the test.  Forms were uneventful for me.  I broke my board on the first try.  I think this may be the last of the quick promotions. which is fine.  Green belt was a major goal for me.


Congrats! I am not familiar with your quick promotion story but I assume you started a new school/style so, also Congrats!


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## mrt2

dvcochran said:


> Congrats! I am not familiar with your quick promotion story but I assume you started a new school/style so, also Congrats!


I had previously trained in a similar style for 3 years, reaching the rank of Cho Dan Bo, which is a rank in between the highest colored belt and the lowest black belt.  But that was more than 3 decades ago.  After a 30 minute mini class, my current teacher told me that I would have to start out as a white belt, but he would move me up somewhat more quickly than he might do with someone who is coming to TKD with no previous MA experience.


----------



## Michele123

mrt2 said:


> OK, folks.  Still here, still training.  Tested for Green Belt (6th Gup) and passed!  No real surprises except that because I was the oldest person and the highest ranked person at the test, I had to know all the sparring combinations on the bag and call them out.  But it was fine.  I pretty much committed the first 12 to memory, and I only had to do 8 for the test.  Forms were uneventful for me.  I broke my board on the first try.  I think this may be the last of the quick promotions. which is fine.  Green belt was a major goal for me.



Wow!  Congrats!  I also just earned my green(6 gup here too) but I’ve been training since November and only have one quick promotion).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> OK, folks.  Still here, still training.  Tested for Green Belt (6th Gup) and passed!  No real surprises except that because I was the oldest person and the highest ranked person at the test, I had to know all the sparring combinations on the bag and call them out.  But it was fine.  I pretty much committed the first 12 to memory, and I only had to do 8 for the test.  Forms were uneventful for me.  I broke my board on the first try.  I think this may be the last of the quick promotions. which is fine.  Green belt was a major goal for me.



Congrats mate that's fantastic! Sounds like you nailed it!


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## Deafdude#5

mrt2 said:


> OK, folks.  Still here, still training.  Tested for Green Belt (6th Gup) and passed!  No real surprises except that because I was the oldest person and the highest ranked person at the test, I had to know all the sparring combinations on the bag and call them out.  But it was fine.  I pretty much committed the first 12 to memory, and I only had to do 8 for the test.  Forms were uneventful for me.  I broke my board on the first try.  I think this may be the last of the quick promotions. which is fine.  Green belt was a major goal for me.



Awesome mrt2!!! Keep it up


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## mrt2

Still here, still training.  Just tested and advanced to high green belt. (5th gup)  Half way to black belt (not really.  The interval between belt advancements gets longer once I get to purple.  The easy advancements are pretty much over.  The forms get harder, the advanced kicking combos more difficult, and the expectations will be higher.  Looking forward to training harder, and sparring more against the higher ranked adults, though it is awhile before I am allowed to attend the advanced classes. (probably not until sometime in the spring).

Mostly measuring my progress against my former self, but I also look around to see who is in class who might be a challenging sparring partner.  The guy who, age wise and size wise is closest to me is a guy who is a brown belt, and has been attending classes for about 2 years now.   Not saying I can match him yet, but in the short term, I will be aspiring to get to his level.   After that, there is a 2nd degree black belt who is about my age who is a beast in the ring..  Apparently, he used to be a boxer.  That is the benchmark I am looking to get to.


----------



## Deafdude#5

I’m not too far in age from you, (turning 49 this month). The challenge at this point is keeping consistent with your training while juggling your daily life/work activities. Good job!

Finding the right training partner is a major obstacle since many either want to push you too hard or don’t push hard enough. 

Best of luck!


----------



## mrt2

Deafdude#5 said:


> I’m not too far in age from you, (turning 49 this month). The challenge at this point is keeping consistent with your training while juggling your daily life/work activities. Good job!
> 
> Finding the right training partner is a major obstacle since many either want to push you too hard or don’t push hard enough.
> 
> Best of luck!


As far as the consistency, I would say so far, so good.  I made this a priority,, and so far have averaged 3 to 4 classes a week since I started in March.  As far as training partners go, I wish there were someone I could count on to be there with me every class.  Honestly, as far as adult males (or even older teens), I am mostly looking to the higher belts for advice, though there is a guy who joined the beginning of the summer who is really getting better quickly, and I can see him being a decent training partner if he sticks with it.,  But he is only  a yellow belt right now.  But I sparred against him a couple of weeks ago, apparently it was only the 2nd time he ever sparred and he was better than I would have expected for someone who only knows a few kick combinations.


----------



## Kick

Just started BJJ at age 52, i'v got about eight or nine classes now, and yesterday i won my first roll with someone half my age and a lot bigger than me. It was his 2nd day.


----------



## mrt2

mrt2 said:


> Third update.  Still here and still training.  So instead of waiting a month and testing for yellow next month (which is what I thought I was going to do), the master told me to test this week for high white, which I did. So, apparently, I don't get to skip ranks, but he did promote me a rank after just 4 weeks of training.  I thought I was going to wait another month then test for yellow.  No real explanation as I was told different things from the master and various assistant instructors, including the master's son over the last couple of weeks, but I guess it doesn't really matter since at this juncture, I think I am the lowest ranking adult at the dojang, whatever belt I earn.
> 
> *I did run into a guy I know from my work the other day picking up his young son from TKD.  He told me he used to practice MA 30 or 35 years ago.  I suggested he join as it would give him a chance to train with his son, and besides, he and I would be perfect sparring partners as we are both about the same age, size, and skill level.  He said he would think about it*.


Ran into him again last week.  Apparently still thinking about it.   

While it would be nice to find a friend or colleague my age willing to train with me, it seems as though that will not happen.


----------



## mrt2

mrt2 said:


> Ok, so update.  Feeling pretty good about things right now.  If things go as planned, I will likely test for yellow belt next month.  After that, the intervals might get longer between tests, which is fine as I cannot race through the ranks.  I haven't trained in 35 years.  It is going to take some time to get back.  And besides, TKD has a lot of curriculum I still need to learn and master so all that will take time..  (Forms, basics, kick combos, one steps, linears).
> 
> So, I didn't pull a hamstring or groin throwing my first kick.  But most of my kicks are waist high at best.   And I have a ways to go on my conditioning as well.  (this is part of why I did this)
> 
> So my immediate goals are.
> *1. To not be the lowest ranking adult at my dojang.  This might happen if some adult joins tomorrow, or it might happen because some adults don't train that often, and hence don't test that often.
> 2.  To not be the fattest guy in every class.  This will take some work as there aren't many guys over 250 lbs training, which means I need to lose 50 or 60 lb*s.



Just a few short months ago, and I am still here.  

So the first goal was met some time ago.  Just to let this board know how quickly things progress, in about 6 months, I have gone from the lowest ranking guy in the class to around the middle most classes.  Over the summer, I went past several people who were yellow and high yellow belts when I started, but who haven't advanced that quickly.  and, of course, others have started up.

As for my second goal, I am working on it.  Honestly, still probably the fattest guy in class. My fitness is getting better.  The weight is still up there, but down a bit from where it was last March.


----------



## pdg

mrt2 said:


> Ran into him again last week.  Apparently still thinking about it.
> 
> While it would be nice to find a friend or colleague my age willing to train with me, it seems as though that will not happen.



I'm "alone" most classes - there's a couple of women roughly the same age as me, but they generally pair up - an older guy who does more helping with the younger ones than anything else - and that's about it.

So I normally get placed with the early 20s dan ranks.

I suppose someone has to keep them on their toes


----------



## mrt2

pdg said:


> I'm "alone" most classes - there's a couple of women roughly the same age as me, but they generally pair up - an older guy who does more helping with the younger ones than anything else - and that's about it.
> 
> So I normally get placed with the early 20s dan ranks.
> 
> I suppose someone has to keep them on their toes


There are a few adult men I sometimes get paired up with .  Most of them are younger than me. I think the only ones older than me are one guy who just made 1st Dan in May, and a guy who just made 2nd Dan.  Other times I get paired up with a guy who just made high brown.  And other times with a guy who used to be ahead of me, but now is a month or two behind me, which is fine.

Even if that other guy started up now, he would be starting out as a white belt, so it might be at least a 3 or 4  months before I could realistically spar or train with him.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> Just a few short months ago, and I am still here.
> 
> So the first goal was met some time ago.  Just to let this board know how quickly things progress, in about 6 months, I have gone from the lowest ranking guy in the class to around the middle most classes.  Over the summer, I went past several people who were yellow and high yellow belts when I started, but who haven't advanced that quickly.  and, of course, others have started up.
> 
> As for my second goal, I am working on it.  Honestly, still probably the fattest guy in class. My fitness is getting better.  The weight is still up there, but down a bit from where it was last March.


Great to hear about your progress. Keep up the work. I am sure you know how rewarding it is. Hope to hear about your future achievements.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> There are a few adult men I sometimes get paired up with .  Most of them are younger than me. I think the only ones older than me are one guy who just made 1st Dan in May, and a guy who just made 2nd Dan.  Other times I get paired up with a guy who just made high brown.  And other times with a guy who used to be ahead of me, but now is a month or two behind me, which is fine.
> 
> Even if that other guy started up now, he would be starting out as a white belt, so it might be at least a 3 or 4  months before I could realistically spar or train with him.


Just curious, how many people total are at your school?


----------



## JR 137

mrt2 said:


> There are a few adult men I sometimes get paired up with .  Most of them are younger than me. I think the only ones older than me are one guy who just made 1st Dan in May, and a guy who just made 2nd Dan.  Other times I get paired up with a guy who just made high brown.  And other times with a guy who used to be ahead of me, but now is a month or two behind me, which is fine.
> 
> Even if that other guy started up now, he would be starting out as a white belt, so it might be at least a 3 or 4  months before I could realistically spar or train with him.


How do they pair you guys up? Where I train, we make two lines facing each other. At the end of the round, everyone moves over one place; effectively, everyone works with everyone else. A better way to describe it: if there’s 10 people in class, the highest 5 line up facing the rest of the class. Then the remaining 5 pair up with them in rank order. After a round, everyone (both lines) moves one spot to the left, and we continue. Once everyone’s back to their original spot, everyone’s paired up with someone they haven’t worked with yet (when applicable). 

Kids and adults have separate classes, so that’s a non-issue for us. But when we’ve got someone who just started adult classes (about 13 years old), they’re in the same line as everyone else.


----------



## mrt2

dvcochran said:


> Just curious, how many people total are at your school?


The number they gave me when I signed up is 677, and current new students are in the 700s.  I am sure the total current enrollment of our 2 schools is at least 200 or 300, but you have to keep in mind a couple of things. Subtract from that the huge cohort of children, and smaller sized women, and advanced belts who rarely attend general classes, and the number of potential sparring partners goes down quite a bit.


----------



## mrt2

JR 137 said:


> How do they pair you guys up? *Where I train, we make two lines facing each other. At the end of the round, everyone moves over one place; effectively, everyone works with everyone else*. A better way to describe it: if there’s 10 people in class, the highest 5 line up facing the rest of the class. Then the remaining 5 pair up with them in rank order. After a round, everyone (both lines) moves one spot to the left, and we continue. Once everyone’s back to their original spot, everyone’s paired up with someone they haven’t worked with yet (when applicable).
> 
> Kids and adults have separate classes, so that’s a non-issue for us. But when we’ve got someone who just started adult classes (about 13 years old), they’re in the same line as everyone else.


That is how one of our assistant instructors does it.  That is how I remember doing it back when I did Tang Soo Do in the 80s.  The only problem is, there are some child black belts who do attend general classes, and while you would expect a child black belt to hold his own against an adult colored belt, in practice, it doesn't always apply when the child is less than 5 feet tall and weighs less than 90 lbs, and the adult is close to 6' tall and weighs over 200 lbs.  So in that case, they have to re adjust the lines to fix obvious mismatches.

Our head instructor just matches up by gender and size.


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## mrt2

There is a cohort of adult males who I almost never see because, I assume, they only attend the advanced classes on Tuesday and Thursday at the main school.  If/when I advance to brown or high brown, those classes will open up to me.  But that won't happen until sometime in 2019.  Right now, I am firmly in the intermediate group.  (at our school, intermediate is anywhere between high yellow to green up to high purple belt).  I am not unhappy to be where I am now.  I remember this time when I did Tang Soo Do.  It is a good place to be.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

mrt2 said:


> That is how one of our assistant instructors does it.  That is how I remember doing it back when I did Tang Soo Do in the 80s.  The only problem is, there are some child black belts who do attend general classes, and while you would expect a child black belt to hold his own against an adult colored belt, in practice, it doesn't always apply when the child is less than 5 feet tall and weighs less than 90 lbs, and the adult is close to 6' tall and weighs over 200 lbs.  So in that case, they have to re adjust the lines to fix obvious mismatches.
> 
> Our head instructor just matches up by gender and size.


Not sure how long it takes for them to become black belts, but I've been an uke for people under 13 (possibly under 10) in two different schools (on specific occasions). It helps them a lot to practice against an adult, they struggle a lot, but they're still able to complete throws/whatever against adults (assuming the adults don't give too much resistance).


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## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> The number they gave me when I signed up is 677, and current new students are in the 700s.  I am sure the total current enrollment of our 2 schools is at least 200 or 300, but you have to keep in mind a couple of things. Subtract from that the huge cohort of children, and smaller sized women, and advanced belts who rarely attend general classes, and the number of potential sparring partners goes down quite a bit.


That is a big school. May I ask what part of the world you are located?


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## JR 137

kempodisciple said:


> Not sure how long it takes for them to become black belts, but I've been an uke for people under 13 (possibly under 10) in two different schools (on specific occasions). It helps them a lot to practice against an adult, they struggle a lot, but they're still able to complete throws/whatever against adults (assuming the adults don't give too much resistance).


It helps them, but what’s it doing for a guy like the OP? I wouldn’t be happy if I was paired up with kids constantly. Once in a while or while you’re rotating through a class with a sufficient number of people who’ll challenge you is one thing, day in and day out is quite another thing. I wouldn’t last very long if the majority of my classes were filled with kids and small adults who don’t pose any sort of realistic challenge. I’m not there to pull a Kramer dominating the dojo.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

JR 137 said:


> It helps them, but what’s it doing for a guy like the OP? I wouldn’t be happy if I was paired up with kids constantly. Once in a while or while you’re rotating through a class with a sufficient number of people who’ll challenge you is one thing, day in and day out is quite another thing. I wouldn’t last very long if the majority of my classes were filled with kids and small adults who don’t pose any sort of realistic challenge. I’m not there to pull a Kramer dominating the dojo.


Yeah, i wasnt thinking about the every day thing. Its happened with me like 10-15 times max, over the last 7 years since i turned 18, so i always thought it was just cool for them. If it was a common thing, i can see how i wouldnt like that.


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## mrt2

JR 137 said:


> It helps them, but what’s it doing for a guy like the OP? I wouldn’t be happy if I was paired up with kids constantly. Once in a while or while you’re rotating through a class with a sufficient number of people who’ll challenge you is one thing, day in and day out is quite another thing. *I wouldn’t last very long if the majority of my classes were filled with kids and small adults who don’t pose any sort of realistic challenge*. I’m not there to pull a Kramer dominating the dojo.


One of the reasons why I am encouraging people I know, like the guy I was referencing earlier to start.  I have a vested interest, in the medium and long term in having people who might challenge me in sparring.  

But, I also realize that children's classes are what really keeps the doors open.  And besides, I am not really in a position to complain.


----------



## mrt2

JR 137 said:


> It helps them, but what’s it doing for a guy like the OP? I wouldn’t be happy if I was paired up with kids constantly. Once in a while or while you’re rotating through a class with a sufficient number of people who’ll challenge you is one thing, day in and day out is quite another thing. I wouldn’t last very long if the majority of my classes were filled with kids and small adults who don’t pose any sort of realistic challenge. I’m not there to pull a Kramer dominating the dojo.


This is something that has changed a bit from what I remember back in the 80s.  Back then, I was at age 14 or 15 one of the youngest students at the dojang.  But I weighed as much as many of the adults I was fighting, so it didn't seem all that strange.  Back then, my instructor allowed very few children into the general classes, and the cutoff was around age 15, though in my case he made an exception because I was a "big boy."  There was a children's program, but they had very little to do with the adults.  

These days it is different.  Many of the adults enroll because of their kids.  I think I might be the exception as an older adult signing up for TKD for my own reasons. Many of the adults who enroll do it AFTER their kids are enrolled for some period of time.  There are a number of fathers, and mothers enrolling.  Sometimes, the parent gets the MA bug even after the kids lose interest, and sometimes vice versa.  But I have to tell you, when I imagine back in the 70s or 80s getting my Dad, or Mom to suit up in a Dobok and training Tang Soo Do with me, it makes me chuckle.


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## JR 137

mrt2 said:


> This is something that has changed a bit from what I remember back in the 80s.  Back then, I was at age 14 or 15 one of the youngest students at the dojang.  But I weighed as much as many of the adults I was fighting, so it didn't seem all that strange.  Back then, my instructor allowed very few children into the general classes, and the cutoff was around age 15, though in my case he made an exception because I was a "big boy."  There was a children's program, but they had very little to do with the adults.
> 
> These days it is different.  Many of the adults enroll because of their kids.  I think I might be the exception as an older adult signing up for TKD for my own reasons. Many of the adults who enroll do it AFTER their kids are enrolled for some period of time.  There are a number of fathers, and mothers enrolling.  Sometimes, the parent gets the MA bug even after the kids lose interest, and sometimes vice versa.  But I have to tell you, when I imagine back in the 70s or 80s getting my Dad, or Mom to suit up in a Dobok and training Tang Soo Do with me, it makes me chuckle.


Many of the adults my current dojo signed up because of their kids. They signed them up, watched them train for a few months and decided to sign up too. Several told me “I was just sitting there watching, so why not get up and do it too?” Those ones were parents of teens (adults wouldn’t train in the kids’ class). Most often the kids lost interest and the parents stayed.

My former dojo had a lot more students and a few “all ages all ranks” classes. There were a few people who went to that class to with their kids. I’d take that class every now and then due to my schedule and I knew what it would be going into it, but it was better than not going at all. If those were the only classes I could attend or if every class was that way, I’d have left.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel here? Like once you’re a certain rank you’ve got better options? Have you talked to the CI or whoever does the schedule? If you’re frustrated with it, chances are pretty good others are too. And chances are others before you left or didn’t join because of it. Maybe they can ask others in your situation when a class for you guys would work, tinker with the schedule, or even open up a higher ranks class to you. If you’re not saying anything about it, they may be assuming you’re completely fine with it. 

I have no problem helping kids and adults below me in rank get better. When I start to get frustrated and feel like all I’m doing is working with people lower than me, I look to my right and see the senior ranks who help me out without complaining. It puts it all into perspective. There’s a handful of 3rd and 4th dans who regularly attend the adult green belts (5th kyu) and up class I go to on Tuesday nights. There’s several green and brown belts (5th-1st kyu; I’m 2nd kyu) and it’s really geared towards us and our curriculum. They know it, and they’re fine with it. They know they won’t do much of their curriculum and they’re working with us far more than them working with each other. They’ve got zero complaints. They also know they’ve got other classes they attend that are for them specifically. When I get where they are in rank, I’ll have the same mentality.


----------



## mrt2

JR 137 said:


> Many of the adults my current dojo signed up because of their kids. They signed them up, watched them train for a few months and decided to sign up too. Several told me “I was just sitting there watching, so why not get up and do it too?” Those ones were parents of teens (adults wouldn’t train in the kids’ class). Most often the kids lost interest and the parents stayed.
> 
> My former dojo had a lot more students and a few “all ages all ranks” classes. There were a few people who went to that class to with their kids. I’d take that class every now and then due to my schedule and I knew what it would be going into it, but it was better than not going at all. If those were the only classes I could attend or if every class was that way, I’d have left.
> 
> I*s there a light at the end of the tunnel here? Like once you’re a certain rank you’ve got better options? *Have you talked to the CI or whoever does the schedule? If you’re frustrated with it, chances are pretty good others are too. And chances are others before you left or didn’t join because of it. Maybe they can ask others in your situation when a class for you guys would work, tinker with the schedule, or even open up a higher ranks class to you. If you’re not saying anything about it, they may be assuming you’re completely fine with it.
> 
> I have no problem helping kids and adults below me in rank get better. When I start to get frustrated and feel like all I’m doing is working with people lower than me, I look to my right and see the senior ranks who help me out without complaining. It puts it all into perspective. There’s a handful of 3rd and 4th dans who regularly attend the adult green belts (5th kyu) and up class I go to on Tuesday nights. There’s several green and brown belts (5th-1st kyu; I’m 2nd kyu) and it’s really geared towards us and our curriculum. They know it, and they’re fine with it. They know they won’t do much of their curriculum and they’re working with us far more than them working with each other. They’ve got zero complaints. They also know they’ve got other classes they attend that are for them specifically. When I get where they are in rank, I’ll have the same mentality.


Well, yes.  I mentioned in an earlier post that once I get to, either Brown or High Brown, I can take the advanced classes.

And, FWIW, I don't really mind helping out lower belts with basic material.  I have already told my head instructor than when I reach a high enough rank, I want to teach classes.


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## mrt2

Still here.  I just made purple belt.  Here is a picture of me at my first tournament where I  took 1st in my division in breaking, replicating two breaks I did back in my old Tang Soo Do days.  They were, a spinning hook kick speed break.  and a  360 degree jump turning back kick.  But it was the speed break that really worked. I wasn't sure I had the speed to do it but I practiced in class with a paddle, the the instructor told me if I hit the board like I hit the paddle, it will break.  And it did.

 I thought I did well in forms, but the judges didn't agree and so I only took 3rd.  And sparring was just so so.  I thought I got some points, but clearly I need to get better landing those kicks against an opponent who moves around and hits back.

This was a fairly small tournament, a lot smaller than tournaments I used to go to back in the day, but you have to start somewhere.


----------



## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Still here.  I just made purple belt.  Here is a picture of me at my first tournament where I  took 1st in my division in breaking, replicating two breaks I did back in my old Tang Soo Do days.  They were, a spinning hook kick speed break.  and a  360 degree jump turning back kick.  But it was the speed break that really worked. I wasn't sure I had the speed to do it but I practiced in class with a paddle, the the instructor told me if I hit the board like I hit the paddle, it will break.  And it did.
> 
> I thought I did well in forms, but the judges didn't agree and so I only took 3rd.  And sparring was just so so.  I thought I got some points, but clearly I need to get better landing those kicks against an opponent who moves around and hits back.
> 
> This was a fairly small tournament, a lot smaller than tournaments I used to go to back in the day, but you have to start somewhere.


Double congrats mate, that's fantastic!! [emoji106]


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## Dirty Dog

Congrats. 
But I have to ask...
Why in the world didn't you practice your breaks with boards???


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## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> Still here.  I just made purple belt.  Here is a picture of me at my first tournament where I  took 1st in my division in breaking, replicating two breaks I did back in my old Tang Soo Do days.  They were, a spinning hook kick speed break.  and a  360 degree jump turning back kick.  But it was the speed break that really worked. I wasn't sure I had the speed to do it but I practiced in class with a paddle, the the instructor told me if I hit the board like I hit the paddle, it will break.  And it did.
> 
> I thought I did well in forms, but the judges didn't agree and so I only took 3rd.  And sparring was just so so.  I thought I got some points, but clearly I need to get better landing those kicks against an opponent who moves around and hits back.
> 
> This was a fairly small tournament, a lot smaller than tournaments I used to go to back in the day, but you have to start somewhere.


Congratulation. Great to hear stories like this. Keep us in the loop.


----------



## drop bear

Got a fifty year old doing his first boxing match in a couple of weeks


----------



## mrt2

Dirty Dog said:


> Congrats.
> But I have to ask...
> Why in the world didn't you practice your breaks with boards???


As a rule, we only do board breaking in class for tests.


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## Dirty Dog

mrt2 said:


> As a rule, we only do board breaking in class for tests.



As I see it, if you're being tested on it, you should be getting training. It's unreasonable to expect students to do something you haven't taught them to do.
But if it's not done in class, why not do it yourself?


----------



## mrt2

Dirty Dog said:


> As I see it, if you're being tested on it, you should be getting training. It's unreasonable to expect students to do something you haven't taught them to do.
> But if it's not done in class, why not do it yourself?


I am considering getting a rebreakable board to practice breaking on my own.  As to why we don't practice breaking in class, that is a good question.  We do a lot of work on the heavy bag, against pads, and with paddles, but breaking is mostly done at tests.  FWIW, that is what I remember even 35 years ago.  I can recall maybe 3 or 4 times in 3 years of training where we actually practiced breaking in class.


----------



## Yokozuna514

mrt2 said:


> I am considering getting a rebreakable board to practice breaking on my own.  As to why we don't practice breaking in class, that is a good question.  We do a lot of work on the heavy bag, against pads, and with paddles, but breaking is mostly done at tests.  FWIW, that is what I remember even 35 years ago.  I can recall maybe 3 or 4 times in 3 years of training where we actually practiced breaking in class.


I have to agree with Dirty Dog here, I don't quite understand why you would be tested on something you do not practice on a regular basis especially something like board breaking which should require a certain amount of conditioning.   

In Kyokushin we call this part of the art tamashiwari.  We break boards, bricks, ice and baseball bats.  A lot of it is mental but that is assuming that you have properly conditioned your body.  It kind of sucks to find out that your punching technique is lacking when you hit the board for the first time but I suppose that is infinitely better than finding out at the test.  

Not a big fan of the rebreakable board.  I don't find the resistance it provides is comparable.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> I am considering getting a rebreakable board to practice breaking on my own.  As to why we don't practice breaking in class, that is a good question.  We do a lot of work on the heavy bag, against pads, and with paddles, but breaking is mostly done at tests.  FWIW, that is what I remember even 35 years ago.  I can recall maybe 3 or 4 times in 3 years of training where we actually practiced breaking in class.


@Dirty Dog has a reasonable comment. But I will add that all the pad and bag time we do should account for +75% of how to break. Learning how to target and how to strike is the biggest elements of success in breaking and should be worked out on softer targets, tested on harder targets. Yes, for some there is a huge mental barrier to get over just looking at a board. A mental stress that is, I think, good for a person to feel during testing if that is a problem. Size and strength dependent of course, but I think the percentages start to flip when you get into breaking more boards (+4) or more difficult breaks. The mental element can carry more weight that anything else. For example, even if you have been working out for 20 years a 4 board straight punch break is not a big deal, if you suddenly have to break 6 boards the mental component is really tested.  Hell just holding 6 boards is very difficult.


----------



## JR 137

Yokazuna514 said:


> I have to agree with Dirty Dog here, I don't quite understand why you would be tested on something you do not practice on a regular basis especially something like board breaking which should require a certain amount of conditioning.
> 
> In Kyokushin we call this part of the art tamashiwari.  We break boards, bricks, ice and baseball bats.  A lot of it is mental but that is assuming that you have properly conditioned your body.  It kind of sucks to find out that your punching technique is lacking when you hit the board for the first time but I suppose that is infinitely better than finding out at the test.
> 
> Not a big fan of the rebreakable board.  I don't find the resistance it provides is comparable.


I don’t mind the rebreakable boards. Stack a few and have at it. If you’re not comparing them to anything else, they’re fine.

Rebreakable boards have a distinct advantage over regular boards - you have to be more accurate. If you’re off center, a rebreakable board won’t break whereas a wooden board would.


----------



## Yokozuna514

JR 137 said:


> I don’t mind the rebreakable boards. Stack a few and have at it. If you’re not comparing them to anything else, they’re fine.
> 
> Rebreakable boards have a distinct advantage over regular boards - you have to be more accurate. If you’re off center, a rebreakable board won’t break whereas a wooden board would.


I'm not quite sure that is an advantage, TBH.  The idea of tamashiwari to me is to break the object, regardless of where I hit it.  In order to do that, the technique for punching must be correct.  It shouldn't matter if you hit the middle or not.  If the board breaks off centre, even better.  The aim might not have been perfect but the punch was solid enough to break through.   I actually do not like the rebreakable boards for that very reason.   It favours hitting in the middle of the board to be successful.  

What's the difference ?   Hitting the middle means you are hitting the point of the board at it's least supported point which is technically a good idea but if you could also break a board off centre, this means your punch is solid enough to break the board even if you are not hitting it at it's weakest point.   This may be a clumsy way of explaining it but I think you know what I mean.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Yokazuna514 said:


> I'm not quite sure that is an advantage, TBH.  The idea of tamashiwari to me is to break the object, regardless of where I hit it.  In order to do that, the technique for punching must be correct.  It shouldn't matter if you hit the middle or not.  If the board breaks off centre, even better.  The aim might not have been perfect but the punch was solid enough to break through.   I actually do not like the rebreakable boards for that very reason.   It favours hitting in the middle of the board to be successful.
> 
> What's the difference ?   Hitting the middle means you are hitting the point of the board at it's least supported point which is technically a good idea but if you could also break a board off centre, this means your punch is solid enough to break the board even if you are not hitting it at it's weakest point.   This may be a clumsy way of explaining it but I think you know what I mean.



If you can break the board by hitting it off center, you're not using enough boards. Further, if you're hitting off center, you're not using good technique. Because accuracy and precision are part of the technique.
There are loads of rebreakable boards. Some are utter crap, and some are quite good. I like THESE because they do, in fact, break very much like wood. And at the same power level. And they're durable. I've got one of their green boards (which is the same as a standard 1" pine board) at the dojang that has been broken hundreds of times and is still perfect.


----------



## Yokozuna514

Dirty Dog said:


> Further, if you're hitting off center, you're not using good technique. Because accuracy and precision are part of the technique.


We are going to disagree here about hitting off centre.   The idea is to break the board where you hit it.  The easiest place to break the board is in the middle.   The further you come away from the middle the harder it is to break the board BUT the goal is not only to break the board.  It is to demonstrate the technique and solidity of your punch.  If you can break a board off centre, your punching technique has to be solid or it will not break.  

So yes it is good to be accurate and precise but it is more important to me to show that the punch has solid technique rather than hitting the board at it's weakest point so I wouldn't say 'you're not using good technique'.  If you can break a board off centre, you will surely break if you hit it in the centre.  

Again, not a big fan of rebreakable boards as I think the emphasis is on the wrong syllable, if you know what I mean.


----------



## dvcochran

Dirty Dog said:


> If you can break the board by hitting it off center, you're not using enough boards. Further, if you're hitting off center, you're not using good technique. Because accuracy and precision are part of the technique.
> There are loads of rebreakable boards. Some are utter crap, and some are quite good. I like THESE because they do, in fact, break very much like wood. And at the same power level. And they're durable. I've got one of their green boards (which is the same as a standard 1" pine board) at the dojang that has been broken hundreds of times and is still perfect.


I checked out the website. In your opinion, which board strength is closest to a standard 12x12 pine board? I will order the 3 board set but would like them to all be the same strength


----------



## Dirty Dog

dvcochran said:


> I checked out the website. In your opinion, which board strength is closest to a standard 12x12 pine board? I will order the 3 board set but would like them to all be the same strength



They're color coded to match belts, so white is the easiest and black is the most difficult. On the back, they're marked to indicate how thick a board they match. The green is the same as a standard 1" thick pine board. I don't remember for sure what the blue and brown boards equal, but the black boards are 2 1/4" thick pine. They're stackable, obviously, so you can mix and match to get whatever degree of difficulty you need.


----------



## mrt2

Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."

That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.

Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."
> 
> That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.



Awesome!! It is always great to hear updates like this. I hope to hear more from you and others.
It is always sad to hear of "passionate" people who stop working out. I do think we are getting into the time of year where there always seems to be a drop off in attendance (in the U.S.). School is out soon, spring/summer and all that goes with it, vacations, etc..., all seem to pull people away hopefully for only a brief time. 
Love the BB analogy. I have always said a BB is a just a serious beginner.


----------



## mrt2

dvcochran said:


> Awesome!! It is always great to hear updates like this. I hope to hear more from you and others.
> It is always sad to hear of "passionate" people who stop working out. I do think we are getting into the time of year where there always seems to be a drop off in attendance (in the U.S.). School is out soon, spring/summer and all that goes with it, vacations, etc..., all seem to pull people away hopefully for only a brief time.
> Love the BB analogy. I have always said a BB is a just a serious beginner.



I suppose everyone has their reasons.  The one that baffles me most is a guy a little younger than me who got injured in class last fall, and hence missed a test.  When he came back after about 6 weeks, he expressed a desire to make up for lost time and really dig in.  I challenged him to make up for the missed test so we could both be the same belt rank, and could both test for probationary black belt in the same cycle, probably the end of this year.  We even met over the Christmas break to do some work on curriculum since the school was closed over the break.  He told me his new motto was "black belt or bust".  Then after the new year, I didn't see him for a few weeks, but I sent him a text asking if he was keeping up with his training.  he sent me an email back thanking me for working with him over the break, but informed me he would not be testing for purple belt and decided he would no longer be training because he didn't think he had the time to put into his training, so he decided to quit.


----------



## JR 137

mrt2 said:


> I suppose everyone has their reasons.  The one that baffles me most is a guy a little younger than me who got injured in class last fall, and hence missed a test.  When he came back after about 6 weeks, he expressed a desire to make up for lost time and really dig in.  I challenged him to make up for the missed test so we could both be the same belt rank, and could both test for probationary black belt in the same cycle, probably the end of this year.  We even met over the Christmas break to do some work on curriculum since the school was closed over the break.  He told me his new motto was "black belt or bust".  Then after the new year, I didn't see him for a few weeks, but I sent him a text asking if he was keeping up with his training.  he sent me an email back thanking me for working with him over the break, but informed me he would not be testing for purple belt and decided he would no longer be training because he didn't think he had the time to put into his training, so he decided to quit.


Everyone’s life takes them to different places. It gets harder and harder sometimes to keep a training schedule. I go twice a week, and some weeks that’s pretty difficult with my daughters’ and wife’s schedules. You do what you can. 

Then there’s people who are all gung-ho about training and become gym rats for a decent period of time, then quickly fizzle out and one day you realize they’re not around anymore. Maybe I’m wrong and I’m quite sure it’s not every single one of them, but I think most of them are more in love with the idea of training and improving than actually training and improving. It’s like meeting a new woman and falling head over heels in love after a few weeks. Truth is most often the person fell in love with who they thought the other one was rather than who the other one actually is. The rose tinted glasses fade and they realize that person isn’t what they actually envisioned. Then it’s over. Not that much different if you really think about it.


----------



## mrt2

JR 137 said:


> *Everyone’s life takes them to different places*. It gets harder and harder sometimes to keep a training schedule. I go twice a week, and some weeks that’s pretty difficult with my daughters’ and wife’s schedules. You do what you can.
> 
> *Then there’s people who are all gung-ho about training and become gym rats for a decent period of time, then quickly fizzle out and one day you realize they’re not around anymore. Maybe I’m wrong and I’m quite sure it’s not every single one of them, but I think most of them are more in love with the idea of training and improving than actually training and improving*. It’s like meeting a new woman and falling head over heels in love after a few weeks. Truth is most often the person fell in love with who they thought the other one was rather than who the other one actually is. The rose tinted glasses fade and they realize that person isn’t what they actually envisioned. Then it’s over. Not that much different if you really think about it.


Well, it is a tough slog and unless you really like it, I can see how things can fizzle, as you put it.  There was another guy, again, an adult but probably 10 years younger than me who seemed to be moving up quickly last summer and fall, then all of a sudden, he stopped showing up.  then around January he started showing up again.  I think he is a green belt, but had he been showing up, he would probably be a purple belt by now. Again as you said, everyone's life takes them in different places.  When my son was younger, I could not have done TKD 3 or 4 times a week.  My son was just a toddler and I was pursuing a law degree, so between hitting the books and helping my wife with taking care of my son, I likely didn't have the time or energy to do what I am doing now.


----------



## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> I suppose everyone has their reasons.  The one that baffles me most is a guy a little younger than me who got injured in class last fall, and hence missed a test.  When he came back after about 6 weeks, he expressed a desire to make up for lost time and really dig in.  I challenged him to make up for the missed test so we could both be the same belt rank, and could both test for probationary black belt in the same cycle, probably the end of this year.  We even met over the Christmas break to do some work on curriculum since the school was closed over the break.  He told me his new motto was "black belt or bust".  Then after the new year, I didn't see him for a few weeks, but I sent him a text asking if he was keeping up with his training.  he sent me an email back thanking me for working with him over the break, but informed me he would not be testing for purple belt and decided he would no longer be training because he didn't think he had the time to put into his training, so he decided to quit.


We all have to pick our battles but I just hate to hear this all too common story. Most of us know life will get in the way sometimes. Hopefully, in time and with a little encouragement he will remember it is a marathon, not a sprint an decide to get back on track. Hang in there and congrats on the improvements you mentioned.


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## dvcochran

JR 137 said:


> Everyone’s life takes them to different places. It gets harder and harder sometimes to keep a training schedule. I go twice a week, and some weeks that’s pretty difficult with my daughters’ and wife’s schedules. You do what you can.
> 
> Then there’s people who are all gung-ho about training and become gym rats for a decent period of time, then quickly fizzle out and one day you realize they’re not around anymore. Maybe I’m wrong and I’m quite sure it’s not every single one of them, but I think most of them are more in love with the idea of training and improving than actually training and improving. It’s like meeting a new woman and falling head over heels in love after a few weeks. Truth is most often the person fell in love with who they thought the other one was rather than who the other one actually is. The rose tinted glasses fade and they realize that person isn’t what they actually envisioned. Then it’s over. Not that much different if you really think about it.



I think there is a social component sometimes. If that ever goes stale some people realize that was the only reason they were around in the first place. The social component is real and is usually a very good thing. You should make friends and relationships for life at a good school. Students and instructors have to keep real about the intended purpose of training in a MA and not get sucked into making it a social click however. 
Then there is the shiny penny analogy. When working out is new and exciting it is easy to get up for class. As the shine wears off and some realize there is a grind to going to class sometimes, it gets easier to find reasons not to go.
I had a bit of that last week. I did not want to go to class, period. I teach two nights/week and had to stay on my toes not to reflect my feelings into the classroom. We have senior belt class twice a month and one fell on Friday, which I really, really did not want to go. As usual, it turned out to be a fantastic class and I was very glad I made the effort.


----------



## JR 137

dvcochran said:


> I think there is a social component sometimes. If that ever goes stale some people realize that was the only reason they were around in the first place. The social component is real and is usually a very good thing. You should make friends and relationships for life at a good school. Students and instructors have to keep real about the intended purpose of training in a MA and not get sucked into making it a social click however.
> Then there is the shiny penny analogy. When working out is new and exciting it is easy to get up for class. As the shine wears off and some realize there is a grind to going to class sometimes, it gets easier to find reasons not to go.
> I had a bit of that last week. I did not want to go to class, period. I teach two nights/week and had to stay on my toes not to reflect my feelings into the classroom. We have senior belt class twice a month and one fell on Friday, which I really, really did not want to go. As usual, it turned out to be a fantastic class and I was very glad I made the effort.


What’s that saying, the only workouts you’ll regret are the workouts you missed? Or something like that. 

I’ve honestly never felt like I didn’t want to go. Not once. I’ve asked myself if I should be going a few times though. Not feeling well, other important stuff going on, stuff like that. But I’ve never thought “I don’t feel like going tonight.” It’s honestly the only thing I’ve ever done for a long time that I’ve felt that way about.


----------



## dvcochran

JR 137 said:


> What’s that saying, the only workouts you’ll regret are the workouts you missed? Or something like that.
> 
> I’ve honestly never felt like I didn’t want to go. Not once. I’ve asked myself if I should be going a few times though. Not feeling well, other important stuff going on, stuff like that. But I’ve never thought “I don’t feel like going tonight.” It’s honestly the only thing I’ve ever done for a long time that I’ve felt that way about.


That is a very good thing. 
I do have it happen from time to time. I have been working a lot of extra hours getting equipment ready for hay season.  May and June will be very busy farm months for me. Usually my business's busy season slows down in March but not this year. I agreed to take on two large projects, one in Detroit and one in San Antonio which is going to stretch everyone really thin this summer. Plus I had one person retire in February (my first ever) and one we parted ways with that have not been replaced yet. Our engineers are hard to replace.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."
> 
> That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.


Sounds like you've been working hard - keep at it. And keep noticing the folks who stop training. Nothing wrong with them doing that, but they won't get where you're going.


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Everyone’s life takes them to different places. It gets harder and harder sometimes to keep a training schedule. I go twice a week, and some weeks that’s pretty difficult with my daughters’ and wife’s schedules. You do what you can.
> 
> Then there’s people who are all gung-ho about training and become gym rats for a decent period of time, then quickly fizzle out and one day you realize they’re not around anymore. Maybe I’m wrong and I’m quite sure it’s not every single one of them, but I think most of them are more in love with the idea of training and improving than actually training and improving. It’s like meeting a new woman and falling head over heels in love after a few weeks. Truth is most often the person fell in love with who they thought the other one was rather than who the other one actually is. The rose tinted glasses fade and they realize that person isn’t what they actually envisioned. Then it’s over. Not that much different if you really think about it.


I think some of those who burn bright then burn out are really enjoying the feeling of fast progress. Of course, we all hit plateaus, and for a lot of those folks a plateau takes the joy out of what they are doing. That, or when someone who has been plodding along "suddenly" gets good at something they (the fast person) has been struggling with.


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> What’s that saying, the only workouts you’ll regret are the workouts you missed? Or something like that.
> 
> I’ve honestly never felt like I didn’t want to go. Not once. I’ve asked myself if I should be going a few times though. Not feeling well, other important stuff going on, stuff like that. But I’ve never thought “I don’t feel like going tonight.” It’s honestly the only thing I’ve ever done for a long time that I’ve felt that way about.


I've certainly had days when I didn't want to go. Mostly when life was good and I was content, or when life was really hard and going to class didn't clear my head (so there wasn't the same peace from training that I usually got). These days, it's more likely to be because I haven't yet had enough coffee (I teach class at 8:15 on Saturdays).


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## JR 137

@gpseymour and @dvcochran there’s also a difference between teaching class and taking class. If I were teaching, I’m sure it would be a different story. I’m sure I’d have more than my fair share of “I don’t feel like going tonight” moments. I used to teach regularly one night a week at my former dojo. I loved it because it was all guys my age and near my rank and we got along great. If it was another crowd regularly that night, it could’ve turned into a chore rather than having fun and working hard. And I did practically everything with them, so it was more leading the group rather than teaching the class. I filled in and/or assisted as needed during other classes, but it wasn’t the same. Still pretty good, but it could be a chore if it was the wrong mix of certain people and ranks.


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> @gpseymour and @dvcochran there’s also a difference between teaching class and taking class. If I were teaching, I’m sure it would be a different story. I’m sure I’d have more than my fair share of “I don’t feel like going tonight” moments. I used to teach regularly one night a week at my former dojo. I loved it because it was all guys my age and near my rank and we got along great. If it was another crowd regularly that night, it could’ve turned into a chore rather than having fun and working hard. And I did practically everything with them, so it was more leading the group rather than teaching the class. I filled in and/or assisted as needed during other classes, but it wasn’t the same. Still pretty good, but it could be a chore if it was the wrong mix of certain people and ranks.


There is a difference, indeed. Sometimes teaching is more fun, but it can get tiring when you don't have anyone anywhere near your own level to play with.


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## dvcochran

gpseymour said:


> There is a difference, indeed. Sometimes teaching is more fun, but it can get tiring when you don't have anyone anywhere near your own level to play with.


Agree. The end game mentality has to kick in; hoping we are training up more people to our level. Hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel as teachers just like it is for students sometimes.


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## yak sao

dvcochran said:


> Agree. The end game mentality has to kick in; hoping we are training up more people to our level. Hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel as teachers just like it is for students sometimes.



Yep, I'm just teaching future training partners.


----------



## Orion Nebula

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."
> 
> That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.



I just read through this thread - congrats on your return to the martial arts and making great progress! I enjoyed reading about your improvements and triumphs along your journey. Enjoy your exam and I look forward to seeing more updates from you!


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## AngryHobbit

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."
> 
> That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.


That is fantastic! And of course things are going to be a little... well... everything: slower, more awkward, requiring more consideration, etc. But still - that is awesome. 

I am 44 - and I can't kick chest high.


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## WEMA#36

mrt2 said:


> Well, it is a tough slog and unless you really like it, I can see how things can fizzle, as you put it.  There was another guy, again, an adult but probably 10 years younger than me who seemed to be moving up quickly last summer and fall, then all of a sudden, he stopped showing up.  then around January he started showing up again.  I think he is a green belt, but had he been showing up, he would probably be a purple belt by now. Again as you said, everyone's life takes them in different places.  When my son was younger, I could not have done TKD 3 or 4 times a week.  My son was just a toddler and I was pursuing a law degree, so between hitting the books and helping my wife with taking care of my son, I likely didn't have the time or energy to do what I am doing now.



Congrats on your achievement and continuing advancement.  

I've just turned 56 and am scheduled for 2nd Dan test this weekend (30 Mar).  I keep being reminded to play to my strengths.  While the hips and knees don't play nice, meaning I'm not kicking you in the head standing, my hands are fast.  My hardest lesson, what I could do at 45, I may not be able to at 56.  However I keep training and passing on what I know.

Looking forward to reading about your next steps in the journey.


----------



## Bruce7

Dirty Dog said:


> If you can break the board by hitting it off center, you're not using enough boards. Further, if you're hitting off center, you're not using good technique. Because accuracy and precision are part of the technique.
> There are loads of rebreakable boards. Some are utter crap, and some are quite good. I like THESE because they do, in fact, break very much like wood. And at the same power level. And they're durable. I've got one of their green boards (which is the same as a standard 1" pine board) at the dojang that has been broken hundreds of times and is still perfect.



These UMAB boards are more expensive than other boards,
Are they that much better?

On  a different note. I have wanted to ask you about breaking boards and injure.
I don't worry about breaking with my feet , because my feet are short, wide and heavy boned
and I have never hurt my foot.
My hands are lighter boned and when I was younger I hurt them trying to break more than I should have.
Since I am in my 60's I worry about injuring hands as I don't heal as fast as I use to.

In class back in Jan., I used all my hand techniques on black boards, it was a month before my hand was back to normal.
I was afraid my hand was never going to be normal again.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Bruce7 said:


> These UMAB boards are more expensive than other boards,
> Are they that much better?



I think they are. For one thing, we've broken ours literally hundreds of times without any detectable degradation of force requirement.



> On  a different note. I have wanted to ask you about breaking boards and injure.
> I don't worry about breaking with my feet , because my feet are short, wide and heavy boned
> and I have never hurt my foot.
> My hands are lighter boned and when I was younger I hurt them trying to break more than I should have.
> Since I am in my 60's I worry about injuring hands as I don't heal as fast as I use to.








I was 56 or 57 when that was shot.  I've broken my left hand once, but not doing breaks.
It basically boils down to conditioning and technique. If you have good technique and you've conditioned your hands, you should be fine. If you have good technique but have not conditioned yourself, it can be painful.
We did a demo at a local school recently. I did power breaks all day. a series of 8 breaks, all with 8 pavers. My hand didn't hurt at all.



> In class back in Jan., I used all my hand techniques on black boards, it was a month before my hand was back to normal.
> I was afraid my hand was never going to be normal again.



Better technique, more conditioning. [/QUOTE]


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## dvcochran

Dirty Dog said:


> I think they are. For one thing, we've broken ours literally hundreds of times without any detectable degradation of force requirement.


@Dirty Dog , great stack break. I haven't done it in a while but plan to break two stacks of 5 at testing next month. I could do two stacks of 10 in my prime but that ship sailed.


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## Dirty Dog

dvcochran said:


> @Dirty Dog , great stack break. I haven't done it in a while but plan to break two stacks of 5 at testing next month. I could do two stacks of 10 in my prime but that ship sailed.



I do a lot of speed breaks too. And I make it a point to avoid the whole silly bit about standing at the target for 20 minutes waving my arms dramatically and making noises like a constipated baboon. Just do the break. I only delayed in that video because my Master prefers. At demos, I walk up, explain how breaking works, take a quick "hands up" survey of how many people think I'm going to break my hand instead of the bricks, and break. 
I think breaking is just like anything else; you have to train it. If I haven't broken for a while, I'll start with small breaks and work my way back up.
Next time we're doing power breaking, I think I'm going to try 12. My record is 10, so we will see how it goes...


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## dvcochran

Dirty Dog said:


> I do a lot of speed breaks too. And I make it a point to avoid the whole silly bit about standing at the target for 20 minutes waving my arms dramatically and making noises like a constipated baboon. Just do the break. I only delayed in that video because my Master prefers. At demos, I walk up, explain how breaking works, take a quick "hands up" survey of how many people think I'm going to break my hand instead of the bricks, and break.
> I think breaking is just like anything else; you have to train it. If I haven't broken for a while, I'll start with small breaks and work my way back up.
> Next time we're doing power breaking, I think I'm going to try 12. My record is 10, so we will see how it goes...


Best of luck.


----------



## dvcochran

dvcochran said:


> Best of luck.


When you have a tall stack like that, what do you use for supports?


----------



## Tony Dismukes

Dirty Dog said:


> I think they are. For one thing, we've broken ours literally hundreds of times without any detectable degradation of force requirement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was 56 or 57 when that was shot.  I've broken my left hand once, but not doing breaks.
> It basically boils down to conditioning and technique. If you have good technique and you've conditioned your hands, you should be fine. If you have good technique but have not conditioned yourself, it can be painful.
> We did a demo at a local school recently. I did power breaks all day. a series of 8 breaks, all with 8 pavers. My hand didn't hurt at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Better technique, more conditioning.


[/QUOTE]

What does your hand conditioning regimen consist of?


----------



## Dirty Dog

dvcochran said:


> When you have a tall stack like that, what do you use for supports?



Cinder blocks, either flat or turned on end, whichever gives me the best height. I've had one occasion when I broke the stack AND one of the supporting blocks, but only once out of all the breaks I've done.



Tony Dismukes said:


> What does your hand conditioning regimen consist of?



Pounding on stuff all the time. 
I started with bag work, with wraps and gloves. Worked down to bare knuckles. Then I added a makiwara. And started breaking stuff regularly. Start with easy stuff (like 1" pine, or the green UAMB board) and work up gradually. Like most other forms of conditioning, it's easier to maintain than to attain. I still do bag work, but rarely use the makiwara. I do break regularly, though. That's one of the advantages of things like the UAMB boards. I can break as much as I want whenever I want.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Dirty Dog said:


> Cinder blocks, either flat or turned on end, whichever gives me the best height. I've had one occasion when I broke the stack AND one of the supporting blocks, but only once out of all the breaks I've done.
> 
> 
> 
> Pounding on stuff all the time.
> I started with bag work, with wraps and gloves. Worked down to bare knuckles. Then I added a makiwara. And started breaking stuff regularly. Start with easy stuff (like 1" pine, or the green UAMB board) and work up gradually. Like most other forms of conditioning, it's easier to maintain than to attain. I still do bag work, but rarely use the makiwara. I do break regularly, though. That's one of the advantages of things like the UAMB boards. I can break as much as I want whenever I want.


I never got into breaking, but it seems like it'd be fun to work on. Unfortunately, the Karate folks at the dojo I'm at now don't do breaking, either.


----------



## Dirty Dog

gpseymour said:


> I never got into breaking, but it seems like it'd be fun to work on. Unfortunately, the Karate folks at the dojo I'm at now don't do breaking, either.



I bet you can learn it from a YouTube video...

Kidding.

But seriously, this isn't rocket science. Do the conditioning. If you can punch a bag full force bare handed (without it hurting...),  you should be able to break a 1" pine board. Break a few. Then try two. Build up slowly.
Breaking requires good technique. And it's fun.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Dirty Dog said:


> I bet you can learn it from a YouTube video...
> 
> Kidding.
> 
> But seriously, this isn't rocket science. Do the conditioning. If you can punch a bag full force bare handed (without it hurting...),  you should be able to break a 1" pine board. Break a few. Then try two. Build up slowly.
> Breaking requires good technique. And it's fun.


I might just give that a shot. Maybe I'll wait until after my foot surgery. I'd hate to get even a minor, nagging hand injury right before I need crutches.


----------



## DocWard

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Still here, still training, 3 to 4 days a week.  I am fitter, my technique is better, and I am working my way through the curriculum.  Because of that, I am actually on the floor training now for most of the class, except for when the black belts do their forms.  I even helped out teaching a kids class last week.  In that time, I have seen enough people who were super into it drop off or drop out over the last 4 to 6 months, which drives home the point of the expression, "a black belt is a white belt who refuses to give up."
> 
> That said, it isn't perfect.  I am still overweight.  No question.  (will have to do something about that by the time I go for 1st Dan sometime next year.) Flexibility is coming back more slowly than I would like.  Head high kicks still elude me, but sometimes I can kick chest high.  And, we don't do enough free sparring IMO.   Heck, I would even settle for a few minutes of some old school no pads sparring at the end of class just to save time putting on all the gear. But, that should get better fairly soon as I will soon be able to attend advanced classes so I will have to elevate my sparring game once I make brown belt.  That said, I think I have built up enough credibility to bring up the issue of sparring in general classes at the smaller school.
> 
> Which brings me to my next point.  I will be testing for brown belt the end of this week.



I wish you luck on your brown belt test! I'm in a similar position, having resumed training recently. I try not to be presumptuous, and I know there are as many opinions on dieting as there are people with opinions. Perhaps more, because of people changing their minds. But I do believe two things hold true, calories in need to be less than calories out to lose weight, and the best diet is the one you can maintain over time.


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## _Simon_

Now.... breeeeeaking.... heard it..... originated...... from.. soooomewhere..................


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## dvcochran

DocWard said:


> I wish you luck on your brown belt test! I'm in a similar position, having resumed training recently. I try not to be presumptuous, and I know there are as many opinions on dieting as there are people with opinions. Perhaps more, because of people changing their minds. But I do believe two things hold true, calories in need to be less than calories out to lose weight, and the best diet is the one you can maintain over time.


Agree. That is simple math that all the weight loss programs out their try to persuade you otherwise. I do believe some people burn calories easier/quicker than others for reasons I wish I knew the answer to. I would be a zillionaire.


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## DocWard

dvcochran said:


> Agree. That is simple math that all the weight loss programs out their try to persuade you otherwise. I do believe some people burn calories easier/quicker than others for reasons I wish I knew the answer to. I would be a zillionaire.



I agree, and I remain firmly convinced that there is no one-size-fits-all diet that works for everyone. We all have different metabolic rates, different activity levels, different amounts of muscle mass, our pancreas, kidneys and liver all function at differing levels, and on and on. I dropped 30 pounds, at a rate of between 1-2lbs a week, just by watching my portions, paying more attention to calorie intake, and cutting out processed foods (think out of a can, white sugar and white bread). I relaxed my diet a little after that, but have kept it off for over a year now. My wife dropped a similar percentage doing a keto diet. Time will tell whether she keeps it off. Now that I am back into Kenpo, I need to get back on the horse and drop the extra bit I am still carrying around.


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> Agree. That is simple math that all the weight loss programs out their try to persuade you otherwise. I do believe some people burn calories easier/quicker than others for reasons I wish I knew the answer to. I would be a zillionaire.


There's some good evidence that we also absorb them at different rates. Something I read recently shed light on two instances:

Pre-cooked, cooled, then reheated pasta and bread apparently deliver fewer calories to the body than fresh does. Something about how the structure changes (amino acids, I think, but that may be me mis-remembering) in the cooling process.
Gut flora seems to also have a significant impact on what we process/absorb from foods.
And then we add in the fact that fat cells produce hormones (I think it was a hormone...might be a different biochemical) that encourage the body to store calories as fat. So calories in vs. calories out is entirely valid, but there are so many factors involved that any two people following exactly the same regimen (both food and activity) are likely to get different results - sometimes dramatically different.


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## jobo

dvcochran said:


> Agree. That is simple math that all the weight loss programs out their try to persuade you otherwise. I do believe some people burn calories easier/quicker than others for reasons I wish I knew the answer to. I would be a zillionaire.


uts easy to cure obesity,  just have a famine and a petrol shortage. or move to sub Saharan Africa and live on 5 dollars a day, that will sort it out, or just live on that much where you are now

if you look at the countries that have obesity problems of which the USA is by far the worse youl see there a strong correlation  between how ritch the country is and how many fat people there are. after the USA, then it's the g7 biggest economies  that quickly follow.  it's a toss up if it's an abundance of food or car ownership, prob3bl6 a bit of both

people are literally being killed by wealth


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> uts easy to cure obesity,  just have a famine and a petrol shortage. or move to sub Saharan Africa and live on 5 dollars a day, that will sort it out, or just live on that much where you are now
> 
> if you look at the countries that have obesity problems of which the USA is by far the worse youl see there a strong correlation  between how ritch the country is and how many fat people there are. after the USA, then it's the g7 biggest economies  that quickly follow.  it's a toss up if it's an abundance of food or car ownership, prob3bl6 a bit of both
> 
> people are literally being killed by wealth


You're close, but off by a bit. In wealthy countries - especially the US - the cheapest foods are more processes, generally higher in fat and salt. So obesity in the US is generally higher among those in the lower income brackets, because they have trouble affording the more healthful foods. Obviously, that's not accurate in all cases, but in some areas it's almost impossible to get good food. They're referred to as "food deserts", where there's maybe a couple of convenience stores (not selling fresh produce or much of healthy food at all) within reach.


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> You're close, but off by a bit. In wealthy countries - especially the US - the cheapest foods are more processes, generally higher in fat and salt. So obesity in the US is generally higher among those in the lower income brackets, because they have trouble affording the more healthful foods. Obviously, that's not accurate in all cases, but in some areas it's almost impossible to get good food. They're referred to as "food deserts", where there's maybe a couple of convenience stores (not selling fresh produce or much of healthy food at all) within reach.


we've had this discussion before, the people in food deserts will get fit walking to the supper market to buy fresh food,  , and as a general rule the more nutritious a foood the cheaper it is to buy, but the longer the preparation .

you can live quite well on mostly chick peas, in fact I great big % of the world do just that, and their really cheap. but then so is cabbage and rice and mutton and home made veg soup with a bit of mutton in it.

and when I was last there a decade  ago, there was a significant amount of over weight middle class people in nice cars,


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## JR 137

jobo said:


> we've had this discussion before, the people in food deserts will get fit walking to the supper market to buy fresh food,  , and as a general rule the more nutritious a foood the cheaper it is to buy, but the longer the preparation .
> 
> you can live quite well on mostly chick peas, in fact I great big % of the world do just that, and their really cheap. but then so is cabbage and rice and mutton and home made veg soup with a bit of mutton in it.
> 
> and when I was last there a decade  ago, there was a significant amount of over weight middle class people in nice cars,


The US is the exception to the “the healthier it is, the cheaper to buy” rule. I remember seeing a video that said this (and many other things) in my sports nutrition class in grad school a while back. In practically every country, a meal made from scratch is far cheaper than a processed and boxed up meal; in the US, crappy frozen food isle stuff is cheaper.

Then add the convenience factor. Many families here have 2 full-time working parents. It’s easier to serve something quick when you’ve gotten home at 6 from a long day at work and have to feed a family of 5 or 6. And it’s cheaper.

Being rich isn’t making us as fat as you think, although it has something to do with it. Being frugal and convenient is a far bigger culprit. And while we’re certainly living in paradise compared to most of the world (as are you), most people here are struggling by our standards. The middle class is shrinking. The economy is allegedly better than it was 10 years ago, yet for many people it really isn’t. I’m still not making as much as I was 10 years ago. I know many people who can say the same thing.


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> we've had this discussion before, the people in food deserts will get fit walking to the supper market to buy fresh food,  , and as a general rule the more nutritious a foood the cheaper it is to buy, but the longer the preparation .
> 
> you can live quite well on mostly chick peas, in fact I great big % of the world do just that, and their really cheap. but then so is cabbage and rice and mutton and home made veg soup with a bit of mutton in it.
> 
> and when I was last there a decade  ago, there was a significant amount of over weight middle class people in nice cars,


Yeah, again, that assumes it's both safe and feasible to walk to fresh food. Sometimes, it's more than 10 miles. While that's walkable, the time needed isn't reasonable for someone who is probably already working two jobs. You seem to not get the distances that can exist in the US without reasonable public transport. And then there's the safety issue. Walking late in some food deserts is a pretty bad idea.


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> I’m still not making as much as I was 10 years ago. I know many people who can say the same thing.


If I get the job I'm currently trying for, I'll probably get close to what I was making almost 20 years ago.


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## JR 137

gpseymour said:


> If I get the job I'm currently trying for, I'll probably get close to what I was making almost 20 years ago.


If I get the one I’m going for (and have a great chance as my prospective boss and interviewer is a good friend), I’ll be about even with my 2009 salary after a year (the job has defined pay grade steps). Somehow the recession ended a few years ago. Sure. Because the cost of living hasn’t gone up in the 12 years in between those. That’ll hopefully be a $12k raise from my current job.

Remember when our parents told us if we got a college degree we wouldn’t have to worry about making ends meet?


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## dvcochran

gpseymour said:


> If I get the job I'm currently trying for, I'll probably get close to what I was making almost 20 years ago.[





JR 137 said:


> If I get the one I’m going for (and have a great chance as my prospective boss and interviewer is a good friend), I’ll be about even with my 2009 salary after a year (the job has defined pay grade steps). Somehow the recession ended a few years ago. Sure. Because the cost of living hasn’t gone up in the 12 years in between those. That’ll hopefully be a $12k raise from my current job.
> 
> Remember when our parents told us if we got a college degree we wouldn’t have to worry about making ends meet?


May I ask what kind of work you will be doing? Just curious.


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## JR 137

dvcochran said:


> May I ask what kind of work you will be doing? Just curious.


It’s classified. 


Ok, not really.


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## mrt2

DocWard said:


> I wish you luck on your brown belt test! I'm in a similar position, having resumed training recently. I try not to be presumptuous, and I know there are as many opinions on dieting as there are people with opinions. Perhaps more, because of people changing their minds. But I do believe two things hold true, calories in need to be less than calories out to lose weight, and the best diet is the one you can maintain over time.


This has been a good year of training.  My fitness has improved and I am going into this summer in better shape than I have been in 10 years, which is a good thing.  Well, I know there are areas where I need to do better, like sugar, simple carbs, and lunches out.  I am hopeful that making these changes, along with the natural increase in physical activity that happens every summer will help with the weight loss.  But I have lost and gained weight enough times to know obesity is a long term problem that never really goes away.  You just get better control of it at times, and at other times, it gets control of you.  I lost a lot of weight in high school and kept it off until I went off to college, when I gained a lot of weight.  More recently, I lost a lot of weight 15 years ago and kept it off for 5 years, then gained a lot of it back after I had an injury that kept me away from the gym for a few months.  For the last 10 years, weight loss and gain has been a bit seasonal, losing a bit of weight in the summer months, gaining it back in the winter.  Part of my coming back to martial arts was to get back to the notion of staying in shape year round.

I think it is a combination of factors that go into why people (even those who have had bariatric surgery) can't lose significant body weight and keep it off permanently.   My personal opinion is, if you are ever overweight at a young age, the chances are it will be an issue your whole life.  At least if you live here in the US.  One of the reasons why I hate to see kids as young as 8 or 9 who are already obese because I know that even if they manage to lose weight as teenagers, they will likely struggle to maintain that weight as they grow older..


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> May I ask what kind of work you will be doing? Just curious.


I'm hoping to be working as an implementation consultant for a bank-oriented tech firm, on a loan origination platform. It's a half-technical job.


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## Gerry Seymour

JR 137 said:


> Remember when our parents told us if we got a college degree we wouldn’t have to worry about making ends meet?


Had I actually done that, I'm not sure it would have changed much. I had mono my last semester in college (after about 6 years) and had to drop two classes I needed to graduate: macroeconomics and psych senior seminar. I did all the work for both, but missed too many classes to be able to do the final exam (in econ) or participate in the final discussion (in senior seminar). But my degree would have been in General Psychology, which wouldn't help much for the kinds of jobs I've tended to prefer. I am always leaning on my psych background, and continue to learn more there. Frankly, if I'd had the time and money over the last 10 years, I'd have finished that degree and gone on to do a masters, mostly because I always wanted to. I did go back and start working on a business degree about 10 years ago with an online college, but the cost was too high and the quality of classes too low (nearly all the content was discussion among the students, most of whom didn't appear to have even read the text...just reading the text was by far the most useful part of the class).


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## Gerry Seymour

mrt2 said:


> This has been a good year of training.  My fitness has improved and I am going into this summer in better shape than I have been in 10 years, which is a good thing.  Well, I know there are areas where I need to do better, like sugar, simple carbs, and lunches out.  I am hopeful that making these changes, along with the natural increase in physical activity that happens every summer will help with the weight loss.  But I have lost and gained weight enough times to know obesity is a long term problem that never really goes away.  You just get better control of it at times, and at other times, it gets control of you.  I lost a lot of weight in high school and kept it off until I went off to college, when I gained a lot of weight.  More recently, I lost a lot of weight 15 years ago and kept it off for 5 years, then gained a lot of it back after I had an injury that kept me away from the gym for a few months.  For the last 10 years, weight loss and gain has been a bit seasonal, losing a bit of weight in the summer months, gaining it back in the winter.  Part of my coming back to martial arts was to get back to the notion of staying in shape year round.
> 
> I think it is a combination of factors that go into why people (even those who have had bariatric surgery) can't lose significant body weight and keep it off permanently.   My personal opinion is, if you are ever overweight at a young age, the chances are it will be an issue your whole life.  At least if you live here in the US.  One of the reasons why I hate to see kids as young as 8 or 9 who are already obese because I know that even if they manage to lose weight as teenagers, they will likely struggle to maintain that weight as they grow older..


I haven't seen enough solid evidence on this to fully satisfy me, but what I have seen tends to agree. We now know that genetics is more than whether you have a given gene - they can be "activated" (my term, maybe not the correct technical term) and "deactivated" during our lives. It seems there's probably some of this going on with childhood obesity. And artificial sweeteners are probably making the problem worse.


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## DocWard

JR 137 said:


> Remember when our parents told us if we got a college degree we wouldn’t have to worry about making ends meet?



My Dad wanted me to go into HVAC or welding. But Nooooooo... I had to go to college... I'm glad I went to college, though, because I have an amazing wife I met there, and two wonderful daughters. How can I regret that? Otherwise, I think I would have been much happier either career active duty military, or as a park ranger or something of the sort. I know I can say that despite all I didn't like about it, I enjoyed being a medic and an NCO in the National Guard, complete with deployments, better than being a lawyer.


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## dvcochran

gpseymour said:


> I'm hoping to be working as an implementation consultant for a bank-oriented tech firm, on a loan origination platform. It's a half-technical job.


I different circles of course, it sounds similar to the program directors I often deal with. They launch new products and product changes.


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## dvcochran

JR 137 said:


> It’s classified.
> 
> 
> Ok, not really.


You mean it in the classified ads?


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> I different circles of course, it sounds similar to the program directors I often deal with. They launch new products and product changes.


In this case, it's helping a new bank client implement the new system. There's some project management, some back-end configuration, and some client training.


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## mrt2

So I passed my brown belt test.  It was a small group of testers in our group.  Just 4 people in the higher group, and since I was the oldest and highest ranking student, I had to lead the group.  There is no place to hide when you are leading a group of just 4 students.  I made a small mistake in one of my linear forms, and the master caught it and made me do it again by myself.  But that was the worst of it. The rest of the test went off pretty smoothly.

Now I need to up my game,


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## Tony Dismukes

Congratulations!


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## Orion Nebula

Congrats on the new belt!


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## DocWard

mrt2 said:


> So I passed my brown belt test.  It was a small group of testers in our group.  Just 4 people in the higher group, and since I was the oldest and highest ranking student, I had to lead the group.  There is no place to hide when you are leading a group of just 4 students.  I made a small mistake in one of my linear forms, and the master caught it and made me do it again by myself.  But that was the worst of it. The rest of the test went off pretty smoothly.
> 
> Now I need to up my game,



Congratulations!


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## Gerry Seymour

mrt2 said:


> So I passed my brown belt test.  It was a small group of testers in our group.  Just 4 people in the higher group, and since I was the oldest and highest ranking student, I had to lead the group.  There is no place to hide when you are leading a group of just 4 students.  I made a small mistake in one of my linear forms, and the master caught it and made me do it again by myself.  But that was the worst of it. The rest of the test went off pretty smoothly.
> 
> Now I need to up my game,


Nice. Yeah, there's no place to hide when you're at the front. It's useful to both feel and be that exposed from time to time. Keeps us honest.


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## mrt2

Update.  Last week I passed my next belt test and was promoted to probationary black belt.  My avatar is a pic taken from just after the test when our instructor gave us new belts and for the new black belts, new uniform tops to wear for the group picture.  Also, I lost 50 lbs since late June, when I finally figured out my diet and put it together with my training and made it work.  Ideally, I would like to lose another 30 to 40 lbs before the 1st Dan test in 6 months.  It would help me to better execute the more athletic moves in a style that is known for its jumping and spinning kicks.


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## dvcochran

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Last week I passed my next belt test and was promoted to probationary black belt.  My avatar is a pic taken from just after the test when our instructor gave us new belts and for the new black belts, new uniform tops to wear for the group picture.  Also, I lost 50 lbs since late June, when I finally figured out my diet and put it together with my training and made it work.  Ideally, I would like to lose another 30 to 40 lbs before the 1st Dan test in 6 months.  It would help me to better execute the more athletic moves in a style that is known for its jumping and spinning kicks.


Congratulations! That is quite a different look from your earlier photos. Excellent work. I really enjoy your updates. They attest to your commitment about your personal health and your MA's. Can't ask for any more than that.


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## Bruce7

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Last week I passed my next belt test and was promoted to probationary black belt.  My avatar is a pic taken from just after the test when our instructor gave us new belts and for the new black belts, new uniform tops to wear for the group picture.  Also, I lost 50 lbs since late June, when I finally figured out my diet and put it together with my training and made it work.  Ideally, I would like to lose another 30 to 40 lbs before the 1st Dan test in 6 months.  It would help me to better execute the more athletic moves in a style that is known for its jumping and spinning kicks.



I am impressed. You should be very proud.
Your family should be very happy with the number of health years you have added to your life.
It gives me and others incentive to work harder.
Thank you for your post.


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## _Simon_

mrt2 said:


> Update.  Last week I passed my next belt test and was promoted to probationary black belt.  My avatar is a pic taken from just after the test when our instructor gave us new belts and for the new black belts, new uniform tops to wear for the group picture.  Also, I lost 50 lbs since late June, when I finally figured out my diet and put it together with my training and made it work.  Ideally, I would like to lose another 30 to 40 lbs before the 1st Dan test in 6 months.  It would help me to better execute the more athletic moves in a style that is known for its jumping and spinning kicks.


Amazing work bro! Such a huge achievement, thanks for keeping us updated too, it helps and inspires alot of people on their journey for sure


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