# Belt promotion as retention tool, or milestone?



## IcemanSK (Mar 9, 2010)

In this thread, I'm not asking or encouraging instructors if they give out rank to keep students. There are way too many threads in other parts of MT on that topic.

I know that there are different thoughts about the role a belt promotion takes in a school. Some folks treat it as just another day in the school. The student is called up, the belt is handed to them, & class goes on as always.

Others, put the belt on the student, photos are taken, etc. Belt promotion day is a big deal.

My first instructor was fairly matter-of-fact about belt promotion day. You were called up, the belt was placed around your waist, you bowed & it was class as normal. BB wasn't really any more special than yellow belt.

My current instructor makes a big deal out of every promotion as he sees it as the memory/feeling will help in student retention. 

How do you view it at your school? Somewhere in between these two extremes, perhaps?


Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Steve (Mar 9, 2010)

At my school, belt promotions are a very big deal.  While they are informal and often done without any advanced notice or "testing," when someone gets a promotion it's an even.  This is particularly true for purples and browns, because they just don't happen very often.  In the 6 or so years that my instructor has been running his school, he's promoted 4 people to brown belt and a total of about 10 or so to purple.


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## dancingalone (Mar 9, 2010)

I have a small school and promotions are rare, so while we try not to make a big deal out of them in CLASS, we do celebrate them afterwards.  We sometimes go out to dinner together as a group or I have been known to host a meal/party at my home where martial themed movies are played.  MOST IMPORTANTLY, I take the time during these get-togethers to talk to all the students about the milestone and what it means to them responsibility-wise.

I have a high retention rate, but I don't think it's really due to this tactic.  I largely pre-select my own students anyway, so they're more likely to stick around.


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## JWLuiza (Mar 9, 2010)

Can't it be both? Have good standards, but make a presentation of it as a reward?


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## IcemanSK (Mar 9, 2010)

JWLuiza said:


> Can't it be both? Have good standards, but make a presentation of it as a reward?




I think that it can indeed be both. I'm also not implying that either scenario means the standards are lower than they should be. I certainly agree that one can make a big deal out of belt promotion & have high standards. Just seeing if instructors think of retention as they think of how they award belts.


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## JWLuiza (Mar 9, 2010)

IcemanSK said:


> I think that it can indeed be both. I'm also not implying that either scenario means the standards are lower than they should be. I certainly agree that one can make a big deal out of belt promotion & have high standards. Just seeing if instructors think of retention as they think of how they award belts.



Sorry. Missed the point of your question.

I like giving belts at the test. Generally the feedback for underbelts is quickly determined, and no matter the size of the test, givingbelts is pretty quick. I like the opportunity to congratulate the students I may not see regularly, etc. And families are there, so I prefer that way, but see no problems with a "Hey Bob, here's a brown belt, now defend against this punch to the face for the next 30 minutes" and class continues.

We also give black belt test results immediately, but deliberations sometimes take over an hour as each candidate is discussed individually (and they perform individually).  Getting my chodan remains one of my most favorite memories.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 9, 2010)

If the time comes that I have to consciously decide on this matter (because I have taken up the torch of passing on what I know of MJER) then I think I would err to the side of not making an overt song-and-dance of promotion.

My sensei has surprised me twice with Dan grade advancements and that very lack of anticipation or expectation has made those promotions very meaningful to me indeed; for example:


{at a weekend seminar; we are all lined up at the end of the session and sensei is talking through the various people who were expecting to grade that day and what he thought they achieved (I'm not one of them)}  

He winds up by thanking those who've been helping out in one way or another during the seminar. Then he turns to me and says something like "I and {no names, no pack drill} watched you working with the other Nidans this weekend.  Not bad.  {He slightly inclines he head to me} Sandan".

I was thrilled and that "Not bad" meant more to me than any amount of pomp and circumstance ever could.


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## JWLuiza (Mar 9, 2010)

I think whatever your "home culture" is going to be what is comfortable/meaningful for you.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 9, 2010)

A good point, *Luiza* :tup:.


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## terryl965 (Mar 9, 2010)

Since it takes five years with us to become a BB it is not about the money, I prefer to have my BB be a real BB. I know what does that mean, well where they can look and act like one.


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## Shawn-San (Mar 29, 2010)

I have seen this from both sides. I beleive there is a tough decision to be made by instructors when it comes to advancement. On one hand, you may want to advance your student as to not discourage them and to help with retention. Said student would then have to really work on techniques done sloppily afterwards. On the other hand, you would want your students to pass because they can actually perform all the techniques properly and really earn it.
Of course you would want your students to stick around and continue to learn. You would also have to take into account any disabilities students may have and apply a level of fairness. For most though, it would all come down to their level of commitment.
I firmly believe belts should only be given out to the students who have earned it and not just as a retention tool.


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 29, 2010)

My dojo is a relatively new sattelite dojo of chiryaku dojo. My sensei is a student of our head sensei.
Exams are still conducted by the head sensei who visits once per month.
The sempai and I are the senior students in our dojo (senior just meaning we were the first students, which is only since february last year) and we were the first in our dojo to be graded.

We had (and still have) a sense of obligation towards our sensei to not just pass the exam, but to show that we really have mastered the required skills for that grade. To do anything less would really be disrespectful towards the sensei who is teaching us, and whose judgment and ability are judged by our performance for the head sensei.



Shawn-San said:


> I firmly believe belts should only be given out to the students who have earned it and not just as a retention tool.



+1


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## dbell (Mar 29, 2010)

While, in many schools I've studied in or participated in as an instructor, use the belting as a means of retention, that is not what the belt means to me.  I belt change to me means that the person has attained the knowledge required to reach that level.  In the case of the black belt (1st Dan) it means that the student should have received the majority of the content of that art, and is ready to start teaching it to others.  They still have more to learn, in most cases, but they have the majority.

So, using the belt as a retention level would not make since to me, as the purpose is to show acquisition of knowledge to a set curriculum.  If they don't have that knowledge, no belt should be given, period.

Now, as to rather to make a big deal of it or not once they have that knowledge, that is harder to decide on.  In today's society of individualism, it helps to make a big deal of it, and if families are there, it makes the student, and the family feel good to have a "show made of it".


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