# Tang Yik Dummy Form



## Marnetmar (Aug 27, 2016)

I hope Keith doesn't mind me posting this here, I thought it was really interesting to watch:


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## wckf92 (Aug 27, 2016)

Wow. Interesting. Quite different from what I was expecting. Thx for posting.


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## KPM (Aug 28, 2016)

Not my best performance!  Sifu Tang would say I still have too many "Wing Chun-isms".    He does the form with much more speed and power.  In Tang Yik Weng Chun the dummy is seen as a way to develop power...much like a boxer working the heavy bag.


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## Marnetmar (Aug 28, 2016)

KPM said:


> Not my best performance!  Sifu Tang would say I still have too many "Wing Chun-isms".    He does the form with much more speed and power.  In Tang Yik Weng Chun the dummy is seen as a way to develop power...much like a boxer working the heavy bag.



Interesting. Is something like this more representative of what Sifu Tang would look for in the form?


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## Phobius (Aug 28, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> Interesting. Is something like this more representative of what Sifu Tang would look for in the form?



Not that I am anyone to speak about the Shaolin Weng Chun dummy form but is his posture not a little forward leaning with a lack of alignment at his core? Just curious as it can be argued both for and against but still for this type of training I would probably not prefer it. Then again I do not practise Shaolin Weng Chun and as such by opinion is void already.


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## geezer (Aug 28, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> I hope Keith doesn't mind me posting this here, I thought it was really interesting to watch:



What's going on from 1:13-1:18? Reminds me of Silat or some of the FMA stuff we do. Not anything like the WC I've experienced. Kinda interesting!


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## Vajramusti (Aug 28, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Not that I am anyone to speak about the Shaolin Weng Chun dummy form but is his posture not a little forward leaning with a lack of alignment at his core? Just curious as it can be argued both for and against but still for this type of training I would probably not prefer it. Then again I do not practise Shaolin Weng Chun and as such by opinion is void already.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor Structure


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## KPM (Aug 29, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> Interesting. Is something like this more representative of what Sifu Tang would look for in the form?


 
Yes!  And the beginning he bobs up and down a little too much, but he is putting in more power.  This is Ignatius Siu's son, Chu Chong Man lineage.


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## KPM (Aug 29, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Not that I am anyone to speak about the Shaolin Weng Chun dummy form but is his posture not a little forward leaning with a lack of alignment at his core? .


 
Nope! In Weng Chun the posture varies between straight up and down as in Wing Chun and a forward posture with alignment of "toes, knees, & nose" similar to Hung Kuen.  In this forward posture you still use centerline theory and techniques in the same way, and it is a very strong structure for putting out forward pressure/power.


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## KPM (Aug 29, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Poor Structure


 
Wrong again!  Why do you always have something negative to say when it comes to anything other than Ip Man Wing Chun?


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## KPM (Aug 29, 2016)

geezer said:


> What's going on from 1:13-1:18? Reminds me of Silat or some of the FMA stuff we do. Not anything like the WC I've experienced. Kinda interesting!


 
Gwai Ma!  Ku Lo Pin Sun Wing Chun and Weng Chun both have this  "hanging stance" that allows for several things.....it is a level change to go under a kick or to strike low with power without leaning over, it is a way to drop down on an opponent that has fallen on the ground, and it is a way to add downward power to various Chin Na techniques.


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## wckf92 (Aug 29, 2016)

KPM said:


> Gwai Ma!



Yup! Pole form. 
Curious to see it in a MYJ form.
Thx.


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## KPM (Aug 30, 2016)

^^^ Forgot to mention....it is in Sum Nun Wing Chun as well.  Ip Man Wing Chun seems to be the "outlier" in NOT having this stance!


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## wckf92 (Aug 31, 2016)

KPM said:


> ^^^ Forgot to mention....it is in Sum Nun Wing Chun as well.  Ip Man Wing Chun seems to be the "outlier" in NOT having this stance!


KPM - when you were learning yip man WC it didn't have it? I don't recall which version you were studying...was it a Moy yat or....?
Thx

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## KPM (Aug 31, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> KPM - when you were learning yip man WC it didn't have it? I don't recall which version you were studying...was it a Moy yat or....?
> Thx
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk



Ho Kam Ming/Augustine Fong lineage.....didn't have it.    William Cheung lineage....didn't have it.  I do have Wayne Belanoha's  books where he documents Moy Yat lineage in great detail....doesn't have it.  I have Randy Williams' original book series that goes into great detail....doesn't have it.   Now some may give it a brief nod in their Knife form, but don't make use of it in an empty-hand context at all.


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## geezer (Aug 31, 2016)

I never saw those moves in any of the WT _forms_ that I learned (I never learned the last 2/3 of the BCD). We did train _gwai-ma _(similar to 1:13 and 1:14 in the video above) and used it to pin and control a downed opponent with our knees. However, I never saw a bent-over, crouching move like what is shown at 1:15 and 1:16 in WT  or other YM WC though.


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## KPM (Aug 31, 2016)

geezer said:


> I never saw those moves in any of the WT _forms_ that I learned (I never learned the last 2/3 of the BCD). We did train _gwai-ma _(similar to 1:13 and 1:14 in the video above) and used it to pin and control a downed opponent with our knees. However, I never saw a bent-over, crouching move like what is shown at 1:15 and 1:16 in WT  or other YM WC though.



Like I said...not my best performance!    Probably bending over too much in order to do the strike.


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## geezer (Aug 31, 2016)

KPM said:


> Like I said...not my best performance!    Probably bending over too much in order to do the strike.



Hmmm...  it looks like you know your stuff to me. You know you could shoot a good single leg from that position. Wrestling in WC ...now there's a thought!!!


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## Vajramusti (Sep 1, 2016)

KPM said:


> Ho Kam Ming/Augustine Fong lineage.....didn't have it.    William Cheung lineage....didn't have it.  I do have Wayne Belanoha's  books where he documents Moy Yat lineage in great detail....doesn't have it.  I have Randy Williams' original book series that goes into great detail....doesn't have it.   Now some may give it a brief nod in their Knife form, but don't make use of it in an empty-hand context at all.


---------------------------------------------
KPM was not in the Fong lineage long enough to make generalizations about all of Ip Man wing chun. The Ho/Fong  Ip Man lineage makes a distinction
between form and application. Some of KPM's moves would be  applications not form. In Ip Man wc one can
do many things as applications. Ip Man trimmed many applications out so that the form can be worked on. Sure one can dip down to adjust to a specific circumstance. It would be ok just to call it a Tang Yik form. Without a context- dipping down low could be risky.


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## geezer (Sep 1, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> -- In Ip Man wc one can do many things as applications. Ip Man trimmed many applications out so that the form can be worked on. Sure one can dip down to adjust to a specific circumstance. Without a* context*- dipping down low could be risky.




Agreed, in my experience of YM VT, form is about core principles, structure, and concepts. That's why the forms are  trimmed down compared to some other lineages and other styles of TCMA.

And I also agree that re applications, context is everything. In the right context, I can imagine some good applications for KPM's moves. Whether they belong in the form is not my concern since that's not my lineage!


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## wckf92 (Sep 1, 2016)

So, does nobody on here from Yip Man lineage have the kneeling horse anywhere in there forms (?) 

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## Vajramusti (Sep 1, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> So, does nobody on here from Yip Man lineage have the kneeling horse anywhere in there forms (?)
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In our mook jong form there is a powerful groin shot- that can ne used with various applications-but  Ip Man cut
the kneeling out. I don't think that WSL has a kneeling motion in the form.You can do many things as applications.


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## wckf92 (Sep 1, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In our mook jong form there is a powerful groin shot- that can ne used with various applications-but  Ip Man cut
> the kneeling out. I don't think that WSL has a kneeling motion in the form.You can do many things as applications.



Hmmm. Interesting. 
My pole form has it, so it's interesting to read that it apparently isn't that common (?)

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## Danny T (Sep 1, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In our mook jong form there is a powerful groin shot- that can ne used with various applications-but  Ip Man cut
> the kneeling out. I don't think that WSL has a kneeling motion in the form.


Don't have it our form either.
We do kneel in some drills.


Vajramusti said:


> You can do many things as applications.


Agreed!
Applying principle through concept will give rise to many application potentials. To me, it appears many are not taught that thereby being limited through enslaved to techniques or form.


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## geezer (Sep 1, 2016)

Danny T said:


> Don't have it our form either.
> We do kneel in some drills.
> 
> Agreed!
> Applying principle through concept will give rise to many application potentials. To me, it appears many are not taught that thereby being limited through enslaved to techniques or form.



Yeah, I remember some contentious  threads, especially on another forum, where certain people would insist the real YM Wing Chun didn't have this, that, and the other technique. No hooking punch, no uppercut, no sweeps and throws, heck, no tan-da sau!

Seemed very narrow minded to me. Concepts can be applied broadly, yielding many applications in different contexts. You don't need all that in the forms, though.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 1, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Hmmm. Interesting.
> My pole form has it, so it's interesting to read that it apparently isn't that common (?)
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


 What lineage do you practice?


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## yak sao (Sep 1, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> So, does nobody on here from Yip Man lineage have the kneeling horse anywhere in there forms (?)
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk



It's not in the form but when Leung Ting demonstrates applications of the long pole he uses it.


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## geezer (Sep 1, 2016)

Yeah, I always wondered about that. There are a lot of clips of LT dropping onto one knee when demonstrating pole applications, but it's not in his form.

Since my knees are getting pretty stiff these days I decided that's just lucky for me!


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## wckf92 (Sep 1, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> What lineage do you practice?


Hi dudewingchun...I am a practitioner in duncan leung wing chun

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## KPM (Sep 1, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ---------------------------------------------
> KPM was not in the Fong lineage long enough to make generalizations about all of Ip Man wing chun..



  And other people just posted to back up the fact that Gwai Ma is not at all a common feature of Ip Man Wing Chun.  There you go again making negative comments about anything I have to say.   And Gwai Ma IS in the empty-hand forms of Ku Lo Pin Sun, Tang Yik Weng Chun, and Sum Nun Wing Chun while it is NOT in the empty-hand forms of Ip Man Wing Chun.


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## dudewingchun (Sep 3, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Hi dudewingchun...I am a practitioner in duncan leung wing chun
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


Cool. Are there any videos at all of Duncan Leungs Pole form around?


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## wckf92 (Sep 3, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> Cool. Are there any videos at all of Duncan Leungs Pole form around?


None that I am aware of

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## wckf92 (Sep 4, 2016)

yak sao said:


> It's not in the form but when Leung Ting demonstrates applications of the long pole he uses it.





geezer said:


> Yeah, I always wondered about that. There are a lot of clips of LT dropping onto one knee when demonstrating pole applications, but it's not in his form.
> 
> Since my knees are getting pretty stiff these days I decided that's just lucky for me!



Yak...Geezer...
So, if I'm understanding you both correctly, you both learned pole form from LT, and it did not contain the kneeling horse/gwai ma? Yet, somehow, LT uses it anyway? Correct? Or did I misinterpret? Thx fellas.


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## yak sao (Sep 4, 2016)

I didn't learn the pole form from LT, but from one of his Hong Kong students, Alan Fong. But you are correct, our pole form, at least how it was taught to me, did not contain that particular stance.
LT could have picked it up from another lineage or he may have learned it directly from YM,  I don't know.


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## wckf92 (Sep 5, 2016)

yak sao said:


> I didn't learn the pole form from LT, but from one of his Hong Kong students, Alan Fong. But you are correct, our pole form, at least how it was taught to me, did not contain that particular stance.
> LT could have picked it up from another lineage or he may have learned it directly from YM,  I don't know.



Ok, cool. Thx Yak


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## geezer (Sep 5, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Yak...Geezer...
> So, if I'm understanding you both correctly, you both learned pole form from LT, and it did not contain the kneeling horse/gwai ma? Yet, somehow, LT uses it anyway? Correct? Or did I misinterpret? Thx fellas.



I only learned the basic pole exercises from LT. Later, long after I had left LT's association, I learned the form from my si-dei who learned it from LT and also practiced it with some EWTO people. It is a very short form of about 28 movements (people count them differently). The kneeling stance does not appear in the form itself.


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## KPM (Sep 5, 2016)

That stance is in the Tang Yak pole form.  So perhaps LT saw it at some point and incorporated it into his drills and practice.


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## wckf92 (Sep 5, 2016)

geezer said:


> I only learned the basic pole exercises from LT. Later, long after I had left LT's association, I learned the form from my si-dei who learned it from LT and also practiced it with some EWTO people. It is a very short form of about 28 movements (people count them differently). The kneeling stance does not appear in the form itself.


Thx Geez

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## yak sao (Sep 5, 2016)

KPM said:


> That stance is in the Tang Yak pole form.  So perhaps LT saw it at some point and incorporated it into his drills and practice.



That's a plausible explanation. I also wonder if YM took it out of the pole form at some point as he got older or as he apparently streamlined his WC?


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## wckf92 (Sep 6, 2016)

@geezer and @yak sao 
I wonder if you two's pole form would be the same since you both learned it from students of LT(?). 
From reading forums and such, and from posts of Geezer, I've learned that there are many different 'LT'-type organizations out there; as well as differences in Europe-based WT vs HK-based(?). Is that accurate? 

As for LT's kneeling horse...if he incorporated it into his drills, you'd think he would have added it into his forms(?).


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## wckf92 (Sep 6, 2016)

Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.


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## KPM (Sep 6, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
> Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.



No.  I don't think Ip Man ever learned the Tang Yik Pole.  If he had, today's Wing Chun pole form would likely be much different!  Its not just that the form is longer, the form uses different mechanics.   I've written about that aspect here before.  I have not seen the actual YKS/SN pole form. But it would not surprise me at all to find that Ip Man's pole was a version of YKS's.   And don't be fooled!  There was a video of a YKS guy going around showing his pole form.   He had very obviously copied this (and not very well) from that old B&W footage of Tang Yik himself doing the form.


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## yak sao (Sep 6, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> @geezer and @yak sao
> I wonder if you two's pole form would be the same since you both learned it from students of LT(?).
> From reading forums and such, and from posts of Geezer, I've learned that there are many different 'LT'-type organizations out there; as well as differences in Europe-based WT vs HK-based(?). Is that accurate?
> 
> As for LT's kneeling horse...if he incorporated it into his drills, you'd think he would have added it into his forms(?).



Steve (geezer) and I have never met but  I would imagine our forms are pretty close if not identical. 
As mentioned  previously, I learned the form from a Hong Kong source who learned the form from LT  in the 1970's.
 A few weeks ago I trained with a guy who had received his training at the castle in Germany in the late 1980's and the forms were the same.


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## Nobody Important (Sep 6, 2016)

KPM said:


> No.  I don't think Ip Man ever learned the Tang Yik Pole.  If he had, today's Wing Chun pole form would likely be much different!  Its not just that the form is longer, the form uses different mechanics.   I've written about that aspect here before.  I have not seen the actual YKS/SN pole form. But it would not surprise me at all to find that Ip Man's pole was a version of YKS's.   And don't be fooled!  There was a video of a YKS guy going around showing his pole form.   He had very obviously copied this (and not very well) from that old B&W footage of Tang Yik himself doing the form.


Yuen family pole is not much different than what I've seen of Yip Man pole. But it also has some similarity with first 3rd of Tang Yik pole, technique wise. Yuen family pole has 4 major sections. Most only perform first 3, why I don't know. 4th section is performed walking back & forth moving pole up & down vertically, similar to Tang Yik. Form is done on both sides to cover 8 directions.


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## Nobody Important (Sep 6, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> So, does nobody on here from Yip Man lineage have the kneeling horse anywhere in there forms (?)
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


Yuen family pole has kneeling sequence.


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## geezer (Sep 6, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> I wonder if you two's pole form would be the same since you both learned it from students of LT(?).
> From reading forums and such, and from posts of Geezer, I've learned that there are many different 'LT'-type organizations out there; as well as differences in Europe-based WT vs HK-based(?). Is that accurate?



I'm guessing that Yak and I learned the same form --the actual form as taught by LT. Some other groups that split off from WT completed their instruction using material from other sources, even thought they may still use the WT spelling, style of uniform, etc.



wckf92 said:


> As for LT's kneeling horse...if he incorporated it into his drills, you'd think he would have added it into his forms(?).



Nope. LT insisted that he teaches the form as he learned it. And his form is very succinct. Drills and applications go way beyond the movements in the form itself.


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## wckf92 (Sep 6, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Yuen family pole has kneeling sequence.


Awesome. Thx dude!

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## wckf92 (Sep 6, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Yuen family pole is not much different than what I've seen of Yip Man pole. But it also has some similarity with first 3rd of Tang Yik pole, technique wise. Yuen family pole has 4 major sections. Most only perform first 3, why I don't know. 4th section is performed walking back & forth moving pole up & down vertically, similar to Tang Yik. Form is done on both sides to cover 8 directions.



@Nobody Important 
Do you mean that Yuen family practitioners only perform the first 3 sections of their form? 
It's interesting to hear they train the form both sides.


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## Nobody Important (Sep 7, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> @Nobody Important
> Do you mean that Yuen family practitioners only perform the first 3 sections of their form?
> It's interesting to hear they train the form both sides.


Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections  6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.


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## wckf92 (Sep 7, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections  6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.



Awesome. Thx N.I.! Yeah, the kneeling horse is in the last section of mine as well. 



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## Vajramusti (Sep 7, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Makes me wonder if Yip Man learned it or saw it in that dai duk lan alleyway or whatever. Or, perhaps, if he and Tang Yik knew each other, he learned TY's form, only to strip it down later in life(?). Or Sum Nung's? YKS's?
> Geez said the LT form was about 28 movements...but TY's is / was quite long.


-----------------------------------------------
IpMan's kwan work was/is Ip Man's kwan work
s


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## KPM (Sep 7, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> -----------------------------------------------
> IpMan's kwan work was/is Ip Man's kwan work
> s



Oh?  So you are saying he made it all up himself???


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## Vajramusti (Sep 7, 2016)

KPM said:


> Oh?  So you are saying he made it all up himself???


---------------------------------------------------------
I said nothing of the sort.Read carefully rather than making sloppy inferences
You are missing the context---Ip  Man's wing chun has nothing substantial to do with
Yick-weng chun, or sum nung-yks
Ip Man wing chun is Ip Man wing chun= Ip Man wing chun  and not weng chun or .yuen kay shan
wingchun.


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## KPM (Sep 7, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------
> I said nothing of the sort.Read carefully rather than making sloppy inferences
> You are missing the context---Ip  Man's wing chun has nothing substantial to do with
> Yick-weng chun, or sum nung-yks
> ...



Ok.  Where did he learn his pole?   I was following the context just fine.   Suggestions where thrown out on who might have influenced Ip Man's pole method, then you posted and said it was "all his own."   He had to learn it somewhere, didn't he?  No "sloppy inference" there at all!   Your comment was rather "sloppy" and vague.  Your typical "one-liner" rather than explaining what you mean or elaborating on your point.


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## Vajramusti (Sep 7, 2016)

KPM said:


> Ok.  Where did he learn his pole?   I was following the context just fine.   Suggestions where thrown out on who might have influenced Ip Man's pole method, then you posted and said it was "all his own."   He had to learn it somewhere, didn't he?  No "sloppy inference" there at all!   Your comment was rather "sloppy" and vague.  Your typical "one-liner" rather than explaining what you mean or elaborating on your point.


------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.


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## KPM (Sep 8, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.



So, you are saying you aren't going to actually contribute to this discussion?


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## dudewingchun (Sep 8, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ------------------------------------------------You may think whatever you wish.



Why do you even bother coming on the forums?


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## wckf92 (Sep 8, 2016)

Nobody Important said:


> Yeah, for some reason the walking section is not done very often. It's this section that contains the kneeling part. I've heard that it's because they wanted to emulate Yip Man pole for demo purposes, but that's just a rumor. There are actually 3 pole sets. The 6 1/2 point pole (4 sections, there may be more sections but I learned & only know of 4), short pole (double headed) & 3 1/2 point pole (which is first 3 sections  6 1/2 point pole, one side only, nearly identical to Yip Man pole). I think the short pole is from Sum Nung, but not sure as I don't know it. From my understanding Tang Yik pole is from Fung Siu Ching, Fung was a teacher of Yuen Family.



Apologies, I don't mean to drag this thread from dummy to pole but...
@Nobody Important ...so, just want to clarify...your WC has a 6.5 pt pole form; a short pole(?) form; (BTW, what is meant by double headed...using both ends, etc?); and also a 3.5 pt pole form? Do they each emphasize different 'methods' or 'points' or 'techniques' or 'power / usage'?

As for Yip Man's stuff...I'm at a loss. I'm always fascinated how so many different versions can stem from one man. Vajramusti said YM's pole is his and his alone...so does that mean what Yip Man passed down was Chan Wah Shun's pole work? Or, (if you put stock in the story)...pole work from Leung Bik(?).

IIRC, KPM said the kneeling horse is in Tang Yik's, Sum Nung's, and N.I. verified it is in YKS's. Apparently YM passed it on as some point but then deleted it. I wonder if it is also in Pan Nam's? Any other major branches I missed?
Thx Gents.


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## Nobody Important (Sep 8, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Apologies, I don't mean to drag this thread from dummy to pole but...
> @Nobody Important ...so, just want to clarify...your WC has a 6.5 pt pole form; a short pole(?) form; (BTW, what is meant by double headed...using both ends, etc?); and also a 3.5 pt pole form? Do they each emphasize different 'methods' or 'points' or 'techniques' or 'power / usage'?
> 
> As for Yip Man's stuff...I'm at a loss. I'm always fascinated how so many different versions can stem from one man. Vajramusti said YM's pole is his and his alone...so does that mean what Yip Man passed down was Chan Wah Shun's pole work? Or, (if you put stock in the story)...pole work from Leung Bik(?).
> ...


6.5 pole contains all 6.5 points plus variations based on stance & contact area of pole + is done on both sides. Short pole is doubled headed meaning it uses both ends & is like English quarter staff. 3.5 pole focuses on 6.5 techniques with preference to vertical & horizontal axis & no variations on stance or technique, much like Yip Man pole.

Yip Man did much refining to his WC to make it his own, also many of his students never really learned the weapons & created their own sets based on observation or learning from others. This accounts for the many variations in his line.


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## Vajramusti (Sep 8, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> Why do you even bother coming on the forums?


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Why be anonymous? I am not - my profile is clear.
Name- joy chaudhuri. I have done wingchun every day since 1976. I have done other things too. I don't need to mix my wing chun with other things. If my posts are offensive to you- you can pot me on ignore and forget about them.


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## KPM (Sep 8, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Why be anonymous? I am not - my profile is clear.
> Name- joy chaudhuri. I have done wingchun every day since 1976. I have done other things too. I don't need to mix my wing chun with other things. If my posts are offensive to you- you can pot me on ignore and forget about them.



I don't think that's what he meant!  Again, its not me that is missing the context of the comments being made here!


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## dudewingchun (Sep 8, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Why be anonymous? I am not - my profile is clear.
> Name- joy chaudhuri. I have done wingchun every day since 1976. I have done other things too. I don't need to mix my wing chun with other things. If my posts are offensive to you- you can pot me on ignore and forget about them.



I didnt ask about your identity. I wandered why you bother posting when you just add pretty much useless contributions most the time ( sometimes they are insightful). Its not offensive its just pointless posts imo.


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