# The development of hapkido kicking techniques



## puunui (Apr 14, 2012)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> How much involvement did Kim Moo Hong  have in hapkido kicking development?  I had heard (don't ask me where)  that he and GM Ji developed the kicks together and that Kim Moo Hong was  instrumental in their development and was apparently a more proficient  kicker.  Is that correct or is that off base?



I guess it depends on your perspective and who you ask. But to me, GM Ji was the one to develop his own style of kicking, which he is very proud of, and for which he has every reason to be proud. GM Ji had a kicking teacher, Lee Do Sa, along with other inspirations, and according to GM YOO Yong Woo (GM Ji's first black belt and most senior student) the hapkido kicks were developed and finalized in Andong, at GM Ji's first dojang. GM Kim also had a great love of kicking, and he came to Seoul and GM Ji's dojang to further refine his kicks, not the other way around. Did they work together during this time? Sure? Was there at least some exchange of information? I am sure there was.


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## mastercole (Apr 14, 2012)

puunui said:


> I guess it depends on your perspective and who you ask. But to me, GM Ji was the one to develop his own style of kicking, which he is very proud of, and for which he has every reason to be proud. GM Ji had a kicking teacher, Lee Do Sa, along with other inspirations, and according to GM YOO Yong Woo (GM Ji's first black belt and most senior student) the hapkido kicks were developed and finalized in Andong, at GM Ji's first dojang. GM Kim also had a great love of kicking, and he came to Seoul and GM Ji's dojang to further refine his kicks, not the other way around. Did they work together during this time? Sure? Was there at least some exchange of information? I am sure there was.



When I watch the kicking skills of Sin Moo practitioners, it has a great resemblance to Taekkyon kicking skills, especially in the bending of the supporting knee and the bowing of the body.


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## puunui (Apr 14, 2012)

mastercole said:


> When I watch the kicking skills of Sin Moo practitioners, it has a great resemblance to Taekkyon kicking skills, especially in the bending of the supporting knee and the bowing of the body.



GM Ji said that LEE Do Sa was a taoist monk and also a "tae ki li yon" teacher. I asked him if he meant Taekkyon and he said the name again. He wrote it out in hangul for me and I still have that piece of paper. I will try and dig it out and you can ask your taekkyon teacher about it.


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## mastercole (Apr 14, 2012)

puunui said:


> GM Ji said that LEE Do Sa was a taoist monk and also a "tae ki li yon" teacher. I asked him if he meant Taekkyon and he said the name again. He wrote it out in hangul for me and I still have that piece of paper. I will try and dig it out and you can ask your taekkyon teacher about it.



I will. That explains a lot. Even the methods of attacking the leg and lower leg is nearly identical to Taekkyon.


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## puunui (Apr 14, 2012)

mastercole said:


> I will. That explains a lot. Even the methods of attacking the leg and lower leg is nearly identical to Taekkyon.



So maybe it might be incorrect to say that GM Ji "invented" those kicks, at least the basic kicks. "Included" might be a better word. He does say that he learned kicking from LEE Do Sa, so there is that.


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## puunui (Apr 14, 2012)

Oh, and Daniel, if the hapkido kicks are taekkyon kicks, then I would say GM Ji was the one who included those kicks, because you never hear about GM KIM Moo Hong studying taekkyon or any other art for that matter other than yukwonsul from GM Choi. Unless there is more evidence regarding GM Kim's kicking history, then we have to go with the idea that he learned those kicks from GM Ji. Afterall, GM Kim visited GM Ji to work on his kicking techniques, not other hapkido practitioners or even other martial arts instructors.


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## mastercole (Apr 14, 2012)

puunui said:


> So maybe it might be incorrect to say that GM Ji "invented" those kicks, at least the basic kicks. "Included" might be a better word. He does say that he learned kicking from LEE Do Sa, so there is that.



Maybe for somethings, but I also see kicks that are not found in Taekkyon curriculum. And as an example, the Sin moo kicks look as if they are trying for more impact. I would venture to say he did invent a lot of those kicks, and certainly invented his own applications of the kicks, and technique that he might have modified. 

But again, it's natural for Korean's to kick and use their legs in a lot of ways Western's do not. GM Ji seems to have identified very specific applications that go well with the grappling techniques.  Genius if you think about it.


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## puunui (Apr 16, 2012)

mastercole said:


> Maybe for somethings, but I also see kicks that are not found in Taekkyon curriculum. And as an example, the Sin moo kicks look as if they are trying for more impact. I would venture to say he did invent a lot of those kicks, and certainly invented his own applications of the kicks, and technique that he might have modified.



There are pushing type kicks that are included in the sinmoo hapkido basic kicks, which I do believe is a taekkyon influence.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Apr 16, 2012)

puunui said:


> So maybe it might be incorrect to say that GM Ji "invented" those kicks, at least the basic kicks. "Included" might be a better word. He does say that he learned kicking from LEE Do Sa, so there is that.


Would it be correct to say that he developed/invented the kicking _curriculum_ of Sin Moo hapkido?


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## mastercole (Apr 16, 2012)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Would it be correct to say that he developed/invented the kicking _curriculum_ of Sin Moo hapkido?



Certainly.


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## zDom (Apr 16, 2012)

puunui said:


> Oh, and Daniel, if the hapkido kicks are taekkyon kicks, then I would say GM Ji was the one who included those kicks, because you never hear about GM KIM Moo Hong studying taekkyon or any other art for that matter other than yukwonsul from GM Choi. Unless there is more evidence regarding GM Kim's kicking history, then we have to go with the idea that he learned those kicks from GM Ji. Afterall, GM Kim visited GM Ji to work on his kicking techniques, not other hapkido practitioners or even other martial arts instructors.



We don't hear much about Kim Moo Hong at all, other than he collaborated on developing hapkido's kicking curriculum.

GM Ji evidently thought enough of him to "collaborate." Never heard it stated until now that "Kim went to LEARN kicking FROM Ji."

For what it's worth, in Lee H. Park's short description of what hapkido is, Park names a very short list of people he felt were important in the text. Both Ji Han Jae and Kim Moo Hung are listed.

It almost sounds as if you are belittling Kim's contribution to make Ji yet a bigger name in hapkido.

Ji Han Jae, in my opinion, is well established as a key figure in hapkido and will go down in history while almost nobody has heard of Kim. Isn't that good enough?


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## puunui (Apr 16, 2012)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Would it be correct to say that he developed/invented the kicking _curriculum_ of Sin Moo hapkido?



Not just the kicking curriculum of sinmoo hapkido, but before that the kicking curriculum for those whose lineage traces through the Korea Hapkido Association, including but not limited to GM MYONG Jae Nam's group (of which I am a part of too by the way).


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## puunui (Apr 16, 2012)

zDom said:


> We don't hear much about Kim Moo Hong at all, other than he collaborated on developing hapkido's kicking curriculum. GM Ji evidently thought enough of him to "collaborate." Never heard it stated until now that "Kim went to LEARN kicking FROM Ji."



First of all, I thought you were not going to be responding to any more of my posts. Have you changed your mind on that? 

Secondly, if you have any information on where GM Kim came to his kicking knowledge, I would like to hear about it. GM Ji states that he learned Taekiliyon kicking techniques from Lee Do Sa, who was a friend of his family. mastercole states that many of the kicks that GM Ji teaches look very similar to taekkyon kicks. Do you have any information on whether GM Kim studied Taekkyon, or any other type of martial art such as tangsoodo, taekwondo, etc. which could have served as a springboard for his hapkido kicking methodology? 

Also, GM YOO Yong Woo, GM Ji's first black belt for his first dojang in Andong, has stated that the kicking curriculum of hapkido was developed in Andong in 1956 and 1957, prior to GM Ji moving to Seoul to teach. Therefore, whether GM Kim had any influence during his ten month stay at GM Ji's dojang years later is debatable. Unless of course if you have any additional information to add. 



zDom said:


> For what it's worth, in Lee H. Park's short description of what hapkido is, Park names a very short list of people he felt were important in the text. Both Ji Han Jae and Kim Moo Hung are listed. It almost sounds as if you are belittling Kim's contribution to make Ji yet a bigger name in hapkido. Ji Han Jae, in my opinion, is well established as a key figure in hapkido and will go down in history while almost nobody has heard of Kim. Isn't that good enough?



I am not belittling anyone, certainly not GM Kim, who I do think made a great contribution to Hapkido, through his students.


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