# Judo Chop



## kilo (Sep 14, 2003)

Has anyone ever done this or seen it done out side of a movie?  I asked my instructer about it and he said its like the Vulcan neck pinch pure movie fiction.


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## arnisador (Sep 14, 2003)

I think it was just Westerners using "Judo" to refer to any Japanese art. It's just a _shuto_ to the neck. I associate it with Karate, but many arts use it.


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## Aegis (Sep 15, 2003)

Judo originally contained striking, so anything you associate as a striking art's move can probably be applied to Judo as well. However, in recent years the atemi side of Judo has been largely neglected, so very few people even realise it's there any more.


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## J-kid (Sep 15, 2003)

Judo chop, is made by movies (most movies that used the so called "JUDO CHOP" didnt even know what judo was or about.  It just sounded good and besides they already had a diffrent move back then for a karate chop which wasnt really karate.  so it is pretty much movie fiction, when people ask me to show it to them i usally just do a blunt open hand underhand blunt blow to the back of the neck. Not to hard then i explain to them i just made something up ( and try to explain that judo is grappling) 

Anyhow on the striking side of judo, Judo had a weak form of karate a very very very long time ago.  It was pretty aparent that it was a weak version of karate and with the use of judo in sport was total dropped off.  Very few people offer striking with judo today and if they do its not the weak form of karate that was used eonse ago.


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## Aegis (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by J-kid _
> *Anyhow on the striking side of judo, Judo had a weak form of karate a very very very long time ago.  It was pretty aparent that it was a weak version of karate and with the use of judo in sport was total dropped off.  Very few people offer striking with judo today and if they do its not the weak form of karate that was used eonse ago. *



Not true. The judo striking came from jujutsu, not karate. Karate came to the Japanese mainland in the 1900's, while Judo was created in the late 1800's. The striking was good, but confined to kata to fit in with the art's ability to train at full speed. As the sporting side grew, the self-defence side (which the strikes were a part of) was neglected more and more. It is still possible to train in Judo striking, but rare to see the true form and not a karate rip off 

The striking was not weak at all. It was as effective as the striking in any system. However, the emphasis placed on it was not high, so very few people would ever have had impressive ability with Judo strikes.


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## pknox (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> *Not true. The judo striking came from jujutsu, not karate. Karate came to the Japanese mainland in the 1900's, while Judo was created in the late 1800's. The striking was good, but confined to kata to fit in with the art's ability to train at full speed. As the sporting side grew, the self-defence side (which the strikes were a part of) was neglected more and more. It is still possible to train in Judo striking, but rare to see the true form and not a karate rip off
> 
> The striking was not weak at all. It was as effective as the striking in any system. However, the emphasis placed on it was not high, so very few people would ever have had impressive ability with Judo strikes. *



Absolutely correct.  Various forms of striking exist in judo's katas, which many schools require for promotion to black belt level.  The strikes are most likely derived from the various jujitsu styles that Kano synthesized and modified to make judo.  Some schools also teach "street" versions of tournament techniques as a self-defense portion of their curriculum -- the classic example is kesa gatame (scarf hold) -- while in a tournament it is a controlling hold-down, for self defense the opponent's head can be slammed into the ground a few times.  Very effective.  The "Combat Judo" folks out there can probably talk in more detail about that method.

It depends on the school -- if it is exclusively tournament-oriented, you probably won't spend much time on "self defense" and strikes -- if it is a bit more traditional (or they also teach jujutsu) you probably will.


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## Aegis (Sep 15, 2003)

I can conclusively say that I would never use ANY version of kesa gatame on the street. regardless of what you are doing to your opponent, they still have a free hand and the ability to bite anything that comes too close. If I want to hold someone on the floor, it's with a wrist or arm lock and with my knees on the kidney and carotoid artery. Either that or they're on their face


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## arnisador (Sep 15, 2003)

Striking is still in Judo, technically, but you'll have a hard time finding it taught here in the States. I understand that you're more likely to be taught it in Japan.


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## pknox (Sep 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Aegis _
> *I can conclusively say that I would never use ANY version of kesa gatame on the street. regardless of what you are doing to your opponent, they still have a free hand and the ability to bite anything that comes too close. If I want to hold someone on the floor, it's with a wrist or arm lock and with my knees on the kidney and carotoid artery. Either that or they're on their face  *



True, those positions would be great, but you don't always have a choice, unfortunately.  I'm just using kesa as an example of an easily modifiable technique that is taught-- there are many others, and probably ones more appropriate for the situation (like an uchimata where you drop the guy straight on his head, for example).  And actually, if you pull the opponent's head up from kesa, almost to the point where their chin is touching their chest (kid of like a neck crank), that should be effectively blocking their other arm from swinging at you (you already have the near arm pinned to your body).  Biting is an issue, but that's why you bounce their head.  A few bounces, and a fractured skull, or at the very least, a concussion, should be the result.  You then use your "foot jitsu" and get the heck out of there.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Sep 16, 2003)

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Funakoshi once demonstrated for Kano and the Kodokan guys.  If I recall correctly, Kano was impressed with karate's striking techniques and incorporated some of them into judo's Goshin-no-Kata.  Sorry I can't give the exact reference, but I'll try to find it.


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## Saitama Steve (Sep 17, 2003)

The origin of the so-called "Judo Chop" is the Kodokan Kime no kata. The Kime No Kata is the oldest kata in the Kodokan syllabus, dating back to the late 1800's. 

It was based on Kano Jigoro's experiences from training in Tenjin Shinyo ryu jujutsu. Most of the techniques in the Kime no kata are renzoku waza (combinations) of Tenjin Shinyo ryu kata, underlining the principles of this jujutsu school. 

In most of the techniques performed in this kata, the finishing technique after the tori has pinned or thrown the uke was Shuto uchi.


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## YouAgain (Sep 24, 2003)

Watching to much austin powers huh?


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## Saitama Steve (Sep 24, 2003)

Nah, I train in Kodokan Judo and Tenjin Shinyo ryu. I also try and research the history of my arts as much as possible.  

Austin Powers' "Chudo Chop" huh?


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## hardheadjarhead (Nov 16, 2003)

Okay, guys...I'm settling this once and for all.  Below are the judo chop and the karate chop.  THE DIFFERENCES ARE GLARINGLY APPARENT!!!!

Regards,

Steve Scott


JUDO CHOP:

Ingredients 
 2   pork sirloin chops, cut 1/2 inch thick (1-1/4 pounds total) 
    Nonstick spray coating 
 1/2  cup orange juice 
 1  tablespoon honey 
 1 to 1-1/2  teaspoons curry powder 
 2   oranges 
 2  teaspoons cornstarch 
 1  tablespoon cold water 
 1  tablespoon snipped chives or parsley 

Directions 
1. Trim separable fat from pork chops; cut each chop in half.  
2. Spray a large skillet with nonstick spray coating. Preheat over medium-high heat. Add pork chops and brown on both sides. Drain fat.  
3. Add orange juice, honey, and curry powder to skillet. Bring to boiling. Cover and simmer 30 to 40 minutes or until pork chops are tender and no longer pink. Remove pork chops from skillet; keep warm.  
4. Meanwhile, peel oranges. Slice crosswise; then halve circular slices. Set aside.  
5. Stir together cornstarch and water; stir into skillet. Cook and stir until thickened and bubbly. Cook and stir 2 minutes more. Stir in oranges and chives; heat through. Spoon over pork chops. Garmish with fresh chive sprigs, if desired. Makes 4 servings.  

KARATE CHOP:

Ingredients 
 4   loin or rib pork chops (bone in) 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inches thick 
 1   cup   dry white wine, vermouth, or apple juice  
 1/2   tsp.  cornstarch 
 1/2   tsp. water 
 3  Tbsp.  olive oil 
 3  cloves  garlic, minced  
 3  Tbsp.  snipped fresh thyme or basil 
 1/2   tsp.  coarsely ground black pepper 
 1/4   tsp.  salt 
 3   medium, red onions, quartered 

Directions 
Preheat broiler, but do not preheat broiler rack (preheating can cause broilerrack to warp).  
Place pork chops on the unheated rack of a broilerpan. Arrange onions around pork chops. Broil 4 inches from the heat for 9 minutes.  
Meanwhile, for glaze, in a medium saucepan bringwine or apple juice to boiling; boil uncovered onhigh for 4 to 5 minutes or until reduced by abouthalf. Meanwhile, combine cornstarch with the 1/2 teaspoon water; stir into wine or apple juice. Cook and stir until slightly thickened and bubbly. Cook and stir for 2 minutes more. Remove from heat. Stir in oil, garlic, 2 tablespoons of the thyme or basil, pepper, and salt. Measure out 1 tablespoon of glaze. Set aside.  
Turn pork; broil 9 to 13 minutes more or until juices run clear, brushing pork and onions with glaze during the last 5 minutes of cooking.  
Remove onions to a small serving bowl. Remove pork chops to serving platter. Stir the reserved glaze and thyme or basil into onions. Pass with pork chops. Makes 6 servings.


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## pknox (Nov 16, 2003)

Sweet!  Why all styles have merit, I have to say I'm partial to the judo chops...er, I mean, chop.


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## hardheadjarhead (Nov 16, 2003)

It IS easier, and less messy.  But both have their merits.

SCS


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