# Okay Fellas



## Kaygee (Oct 22, 2012)

Every time I have reached out to this community with a question, I have always received great support from everyone.....so I am here to ask for it one more time:

To give you some background, I studied Tang Soo Do for 2 1/2 years and quit a couple of weeks ago because:
The training became stale and boring
I was doing forms just to do forms....the actual practicality was never explained to me.
The school's student base dropped from roughly 80 to 20.
I am 38 years old and I was in class with all 13-15 year old kids.
The only adult classes available were Mon, Thu and Sat afternoon.

These are just some of the reasons. For the full story, please see the 100 page thread in the General Martial Arts forums, created by yours truly, titled *"How Do I Quit?" *

Anyway, I wanted to start studying MMA. So I did the same thing I did when I chose my Tang Soo Do school. I went around from school to school for weeks on end, watching classes and participating in classes. Now, I have nailed my decision down to two schools. They both have their pros and cons, but, if I may, I would like to ask other adults, with families and full time jobs, their opinion on these two schools and which one they would choose.....yes I know, in the end, it is my choice, but I need some advice here.

Ready?

School #1:
*Has BJJ and MMA classes:*
*Monday from 7:30 - 9:30
Tuesday from 6:30 - 8:30
Thursday from 7:00 - 9:00
Saturday from 11:30 - 1:00*

*They also offer "fitness" classes:* (which I do not know much about)
*Monday from 6:45 - 7:30
Thursday from 6:15 - 7:00
Saturday from 10:00 - 10:30* (this one would never work for me if you notice the one hour layover from the BJJ/MMA class on this day)

The monthly fee is *$120* and there are no contracts. 

The school requires that you purchase all equipment thru them. So on top of the $120 for the first month's tuition, I also have to deal out $145 for the MMA gloves, boxing gloves, shin pads and head gear. I would then have to, at some point, dish out another $65 for a BJJ gi, but he said that there are two nights a week where they do not wear gis, so I could take my time with purchasing that.

They have a full fledged fighter that has fought in professional fights teaching the MMA and BJJ classes on Monday and Thursday. The downside is that he is only 24 years old and it seemed hard in my one trial class to relate to him. But he was very nice! They worked me pretty hard and taught me some knees and taught me how to hit a bag. I have never hit a bag up until this point and feel like a T-Rex.....my legs are incredibly strong with my kicks, but I don't know what to do with my hands. Not to mention, I wouldn't know what to do if I ever got taken to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I have a very muscular chest, shoulders and arms due to always doing pushups, but I just don't know what to do with them.

Anyway, I liked this school. There were about an average of 8 students there each time I went and they were all nice and a couple were in my age range. The school did work me hard in the beginning with lots of push ups and sit ups and jumping rope, but it only lasted about 10 minutes into the class. The head guy that owns the place is very down to earth and has a 5th degree black belt in Kempo and a black belt in BJJ. He is older than me, but I enjoy speaking with him and he understand where I am coming from when I stated I wanted to change arts.


School #2:
*Has Cardio Fitness and MMA classes:
Monday from 6:00 - 8:00
Tuesday from 6:00 - 8:00
Has Cardio Fitness and BJJ classes:
Wednesday from 6:00 - 8:00
Thursday from 6:00 - 8:00*
All classes can continue for sparring or one on one training from 8:00 - 9:00.
Saturday is "open mat". I am not sure what that means and I am trying to get clarification that if I miss a class somewhere during the week, if I can make up anything.

The monthly fee is *$100* and there are no contracts.

The school could care less where I get my equipment. They stated that all I need to start are boxing gloves because I will not be sparring until I get some classes in and learn how to fight, and until then, I can also borrow the nasty *** school owned gear. They never use MMA gloves, they always use 16oz boxing gloves. They also have a huge "check your ego at the door" policy!

Now,* their cardio program was the most insane thing I have ever seen!* For an entire hour (6-7) the instructor beats the hell out of these guys. They actually have buckets for people to throw up in and they keep track on a white board every time you throw up to bust your balls later. I saw two people throw up tonight when I went to their class. One of them threw up twice. That is how insane this is. The instructor says that the cardio class is absolutely essential to the MMA and BJJ classes! Stamina is what it is all about, and I could see the students getting tired when they hit targets or sparred, so I believe he is right. This school dedicates an entire hour everyday from 6-7 o'clock on just cardio and then moves on to whatever that day's agenda is (Mon and Tue MMA, Wed and Thu BJJ)

I automatically clicked with the instructor....he himself has a black belt in Tang Soo Do! He is my age, and the way he taught the boxing that I saw, was very technical and he broke down every move for the class. With both of us having Tang Soo Do in our backgrounds, we could relate to each other because we both realized that it wasn't for us around the same time of our training.

There were only four students in the class though. I am told there are usually a couple more though. They were mostly 15-17 year old kids though, but there is one adult that is 38, like me, coming back in November and apparently is a great guy!

Now that you have that background, here is the wild card.

I work from *7:30-4 on Mon, Wed, and Fri and 8:30-5 on Tue and Thu.* With school #2, I do not see how I am going to get home, make dinner for me and my family and eat before class. And trust me, you don't want to eat anywhere near the time this class starts.......it is THAT hardcore! I could, however, make dinner the night before and then warm it up, but they state that is really bad to eat that late, so I would just be defeating the purpose of the whole workout by eating late and letting all of that food just sit in my stomach.

Needless to say, School #2 would really cramp my family life and have me running around like crazy during the week and their "open mat" day on Saturday is still a mystery to me. I really like the school though, so I am torn....badly. I go in earlier, but get out earlier.

School #1 has a pretty good schedule for me, however, it seems to be less focused on the cardio side of things, which, from what I have seen in MMA so far, is extremely important.

Of course, it would be great to save $20 a month with school #2 and buy my own gear at my own leisure, but the price that I would pay would be time.

With school #1, I have to dish out more money up front for the equipment and per month, but the schedule is more suitable where I won't have to change my personal schedule much. And if I do miss a class, I can always make it up on Saturday because I am always off and always awake.

Can anyone give me some advice on what they would do? Thank you!


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## arnisador (Oct 22, 2012)

I don't like the buy-from-me of school #1 but the fact of the matter is that if the time isn't convenient at school #2, _you won't go_. If your work/home schedule can't change, school #1 is the only viable option remaining.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 23, 2012)

Ordinarily, I would suggest school #2. However, both schools seem really good, and the no contract thing, especially after your Tang Soo Do problem is very good. Because of the time issue for school 2 that arnisador mentioned and I wholeheartedly agree with, I'll try to convince you school 1 is the way to go. While School 2 is cheaper, the price is close, and for school 1, you'd have to buy the equipment somewhere, and price wise it's as if you just started one month earlier than you actually did, plus $25, but I'm assuming the school is selling good quality stuff otherwise they'd get complaints. Also, the gi's a tad expensive, but if you are having money problems (won't pry, just stating), I'm sure you could make some sort of arrangement with the instructor. As for the instructor:He sounds like a great guy. Don't worry too much about his age, as long as he's mature, it shouldn't be an issue. He clearly has a lot of experience, and sometimes it's tough to relate to an instructor in one class. If he's nice, relating or friendship will come eventually. The head instructor seems amazing too! Maybe I'm biased, but a mix of kempo and bjj is really formidable in terms of MMA. Also, don't know where to add this, but in my mind, a class size of 5-10 is perfect, gives you group competition while still letting the sensei make connections and help everyone. Finally, from your post it seems like you didn't attend the fitness class? If so, then the "fitness" workouts will probably give you the cardio workout you desire. If that was the fitness program, with a class size that small, you should have some influence on how much fitness your class does, so that shouldn't be a problem.


EDIT: One last things. After closer inspection of your post, if the prices and times for both classes were the exact same, and neither clashed with your personal life I'd still go with School #1, for a few more additional reasons. 1: school 2 only uses boxing gloves, but in mma, they don't take their gloves off the second they start grappling, so it's a good idea to get used to it. 2:While the instructors from school 1 sound great, while I respect Tang Soo Do and mean it no disrespect, he only has a black belt in one style while the head instructor at the other place has a black belt in one style, and a 5th degree in another style, much more well rounded. 3:IMHO doing fitness/cardio for that long each class takes away from learning the material as much. 4: If you're not in shape enough at the beginning, it's possible that trying to keep up with their workout will cause you a lot of pain and/or make you feel embarrassed, even if no one else is saying anything about it, or they're supporting you. If you are in shape, ignore this point. 5:Finally, if you didn't like the old school because class sizes were to small, and too filled with teenagers, you probably shouldn't go back to another school with the same problem. You know nothing about the other 38-year old...he could be a jerk to you or not come to the school too often, or be planning on leaving. Until you talk to him, you have no way of knowing.

Tl;dr:Go with school #1. IMHO it is the better choice, and with it fitting better with your family life as well, unless you have money issues that are preventing you from going there, I suggest trying there first. (Of course, If you don't like it after a month or two, thanks to the no contract deal, you can always switch and try the other school out).


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## oaktree (Oct 23, 2012)

I would never join a school that encourages you to
Throw up.


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## WC_lun (Oct 23, 2012)

Seems like you have already answered your own question.  School 2 isn't right for your schedule, so school 1 fits the bill better.

From looking at the schedule of school 1, the cardio would be part of the fitness class.  At least every "fitness class" I've ever seen has a good portion of cardio in it.

The prices you state for the gear is not unreasonable.  It may well be the school is making a few bucks on the gear.  However, schools will sometimes want you to buy equipment from them so the gear is consistant throughout the school.


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## jks9199 (Oct 23, 2012)

Schedule-wise, it seems that school 2 is a bad fit.  

Training-wise, school 2 is hardcore, and I suspect that you'd quickly find the atmosphere wears on you if you are unable to dedicate every night to it.

Are you planning to compete in MMA?  If not, the extreme training is probably unnecessary.

FYI -- Open mat times are generally just that:  open practice.  Probably no formal structure, just a chance to practice a little more and maybe get a little coaching.  It can be a chance to work on specific skills that you're just not quite getting in the normal training session -- or a chance to mix things up a bit.


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## Kaygee (Oct 23, 2012)

Thank you for all of the answers! No, I do not have any intentions on competing. I think I am going to go with school #1. Everyone have a pleasant week!


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## Steve (Oct 23, 2012)

Open mat is just a free time for you to go in and drill technique or spar with people outside of a structured class.

Regarding the schools, the experience of the instructors is important, and what kind of environment best suits your personality.  I don't like the "buy equipment exclusively from us" approach.  It's cheesy and clearly a way for the school owner to make an easy buck.  But, that said, it might be okay if they get you quality gear at a competitive price.


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## Kaygee (Oct 23, 2012)

Steve said:


> I don't like the "buy equipment exclusively from us" approach. It's cheesy and clearly a way for the school owner to make an easy buck. But, that said, it might be okay if they get you quality gear at a competitive price.



Yeah, but after shoppping around, it seems that $145 for shin guards, boxing gloves, MMA gloves and a head protector is a really good price! Hell, I couldn't find a place that didn't charge $60 for "ok" shin guards alone. Then the gloves were $45 everywhere.....we are already over the $100 range at that point.


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## Steve (Oct 23, 2012)

Who's the school owner?  What kind of experience does he have?  Does he hold rank in BJJ?  Are there a good mix of students, some who compete and some who don't?  How active are they within the local MMA/BJJ scene?


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## Kaygee (Oct 23, 2012)

Steve said:


> Who's the school owner? What kind of experience does he have? Does he hold rank in BJJ? Are there a good mix of students, some who compete and some who don't? How active are they within the local MMA/BJJ scene?



School #1 has two instructors. One is a 5th degree black belt in Kempo and he has his black belt in BJJ. His son competes professionaly and also teaches. A phrase they told me from the beggining is that they do not train fighters, they train students. But their stance is if a student wants to go into a cage and fight, more power to them.They do support those that decide to go that path though.

School #2 has a black belt in Tang Soo Do teaching the MMA class and an Olympic champion teaching the Judo/Jiu-Jitsu. They have a "fight club" that competes, but as I have stated before, I have little intrest in fighting like that. My main goal is physical fitness and self defense...and possibly, some friendships. Nothing else!


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## malteaser14 (Oct 23, 2012)

Difinately school 1 IMO. The later start time means you actually get time with your family which is worth more than the extra money you'll be saving! The school I'm in like you to buy the sparring gear from them and it is a good quality so this wasn't an issue. There is cardio as part of training, however our main cardio sessions are on a seperate day... And an absolute killer!! I'm not a fan of making people be sick (yes I have almost been sick, and have only witnessed it once) but its not good for your body! Your trying to become fitter but your bringing back up most of the goodness you've eaten. You would tell someone with balemia to go and exercise! If I was you I wouldnt even look at school 2!


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## Blindside (Oct 23, 2012)

oaktree said:


> I would never join a school that encourages you to
> Throw up.



I think they are encouraging you to get fit enough that you don't have to puke.    My crossfit gym has a puke bucket, but that isn't something they are advocating....


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 23, 2012)

Kaygee said:


> School #2 has a black belt in Tang Soo Do teaching the MMA class and an *Olympic champion teaching the Judo/Jiu-Jitsu*. They have a "fight club" that competes, but as I have stated before, I have little intrest in fighting like that. My main goal is physical fitness and self defense...and possibly, some friendships. Nothing else!



Olympic champion in what? BJJ isn't in the Olympics and there are only a handful of Olympic judo medallists from the US ever. If one of them is currently teaching in an MMA gym I'd be interested in knowing which one.

I think you probably are making the right decision in going with school #1. A good school that you can attend regularly is better for your purposes than a great gym that you can only attend sporadically.

Does either of the gyms have a website? If you can provide links we might be able to check for any red flags you might have missed.


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## Kaygee (Oct 23, 2012)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Olympic champion in what? BJJ isn't in the Olympics and there are only a handful of Olympic judo medallists from the US ever. If one of them is currently teaching in an MMA gym I'd be interested in knowing which one.
> 
> I think you probably are making the right decision in going with school #1. A good school that you can attend regularly is better for your purposes than a great gym that you can only attend sporadically.
> 
> Does either of the gyms have a website? If you can provide links we might be able to check for any red flags you might have missed.



Wow! I really appreciate that! I am so new to this, that some "red flags" have the extreme potential to go right over me and I wouldn't have a clue!

School #1:

School #2:

Let me know if you find anything of intrest that I should know about as I am a newbie with wide open eyes looking at this. 

Thank you!


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## MJS (Oct 23, 2012)

Are there any links that you can provide for either of these schools?  Going on what you've said, it would seem that school 1 is the best bet.  As for buying only thru them...well, I'd say thats for a few reasons, 1 being the obvious, they want to make money.  2) they most likely want to keep things uniform..no pun intended..lol.  What I mean is...they want everyone to have the same equipment, the same uniform, etc.  

As for the cardio....chances are, you'll get enough of that in the regular classes, without having to worry about taking a seperate cardio class, with the inst. hoping that you puke.  Sounds pretty gross to me, but whatever.  

In the end, you have to pick whats best for you.  Good luck in your decision.


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## Steve (Oct 23, 2012)

Kaygee said:


> Wow! I really appreciate that! I am so new to this, that some "red flags" have the extreme potential to go right over me and I wouldn't have a clue!
> 
> School #1:
> 
> ...


Why would you take the links out?  If it's on the internet, it's not a secret.  The link to my school's website is in my signature.  Any reputable school should have nothing to hide.


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 23, 2012)

Steve said:


> Why would you take the links out? If it's on the internet, it's not a secret. The link to my school's website is in my signature. Any reputable school should have nothing to hide.



Having looked at the websites for both schools, I'd say they both look reputable.  I really doubt they would mind if you posted the links publically.


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## Buka (Oct 23, 2012)

Go to school number one and train. This is the beginning of your journey. With two and a half years experience - you are two and a half years old.

Have a ball, bro.


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## Mz1 (Nov 1, 2012)

Kaygee said:


> The school requires that you purchase all equipment thru them. So on top of the $120 for the first month's tuition, I also have to deal out $145 for the MMA gloves, boxing gloves, shin pads and head gear.




$145 - Gym Markup = crappy gear (probably)...even at wholesale prices. 

most of the stuff sold online are pretty much near wholesale prices nowadays. only a few dollar discount if you buy 10+, etc.

cheapo headgear is baaaaad news. well any low quality safety gear is bad news.


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