# Are the Infinite Insights Volumes I - V a requirement for all EPAK?



## Goldendragon7 (Jan 20, 2004)

Does all EPAK lineage studios and instructors require their students to read the Ed Parker's Infinite Insights Series Volumes I thru V?

"CoolKempoDude" and I want to know...

:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 21, 2004)

They are required reading in the system in which I train, but I voted no purely because I feel most of the info could be taught in the studio. They are good sources of information though.
Sean


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## Thesemindz (Jan 21, 2004)

I was never pressured to read them, and not everybody does, but it was strongly suggested and I'm glad I did.

-Rob


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## gman (Jan 21, 2004)

Not required but recomended. I'm glad I bought them and I've read them twice so far.


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 21, 2004)

wow, i'm suprised to see goldendragon7 took my comment seriously  thanks

all AK practicers should read this during their years of study because it is a part of AK curriculum ( i hope )

your AK founder (GM Ed Parker Sr )wrote it. You better read it from vol 1 to vol 5.

i will feel odd or weird when I learn AK but NOT read my founder's book. 

i guess the reason why Ed Parker Sr wanted to have this set of volumes because he wanted other (AK or none-AK practicers) to read.

if AK people don't read it, your founder wasted his time get his books published it.

i had all Ed Parker Sr 5 volumes and zen book


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## Shodan (Jan 21, 2004)

Not required in our studio either- but recommended- yes!!  I got them all back when I was along about purple belt and have gone back to them for info. over and over.  Also have the Kenpo Encyclopedia book.

  :asian:  :karate:


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *wow, i'm suprised to see goldendragon7 took my comment seriously  thanks
> 
> all AK practicers should read this during their years of study because it is a part of AK curriculum ( i hope )
> ...


yes I'm sure it honors Mr. Parker's time spent to have read these books; however, what difference do you think they make?
Are Martial artists who have not read the books lesser fighters, or less enlightened? I've read them, but to be honest I really was in no position (when I read them) to look beyond what my instructor had to offer. I remember spending weeks of training on single paragraphs in book three. My reading of the material would not have added to the process, other than to physicly see where my instructor was getting his lesson plans.
Sean


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *what difference do you think they make?
> Are Martial artists who have not read the books lesser fighters, or less enlightened? I've read them, but to be honest I really was in no position (when I read them) to look beyond what my instructor had to offer. *



it makes a HUGE different in your training and here are why.

1- When you learn an art, you should learn about the history of art as well because it is a part of curriculum. If i remember it well, your founder book does not only talk about techniques but also talk about shaolin temple training too. 

I'm sure it will offer more............you simply have to check it out.

2- After reading books, you can see the way your sensei teachs you is different or the same the FOUNDER wants to show you?????

   your techniques are the same or different from the book versions?????

  At least, reading book will clear your confusion after seeing many NOTHING founders and FAKE 5,6,7,8 degree in MA.

of course, reading a book will not make you a good fighter. It surely help you know what you learn is a real stuff (Ed parker's stuff) if you know what i'm talking


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## Thesemindz (Jan 22, 2004)

I think the books are important, both for their historical value as well as for the technical knowledge they contain. I also have Mr. Parker's book, "Kenpo Karate" in which he demonstrates many techniques similar to those contained within Volume V . For instance, his demonstration of lone kimono and raining lance are recognizably the same, yet techniquely different. Going back even futher to Mitose's book "What is self-defense, Kenpo Ju-Jitsu" you see a constant progression of the art of Kenpo. Techniques evolve from teacher to student and continue to be refined over time. I don't think it is necessary to perform the techniques exactly the same way Mr. Parker did in a book to perform American Kenpo. Even in books as excellent as these.


I also think that these books should be read at the brown belt level or above. Beginner students won't understand much of the nomenclature, and will be confused. I think advanced students in Kenpo specifically, but in any other art as well, will both understand and appreciate these books more. Advanced students of other arts will have to learn the terms, but will have enough of a general understanding of motion to internalize the concepts.

-Rob


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *it makes a HUGE different in your training and here are why.
> 
> 1- When you learn an art, you should learn about the history of art as well because it is a part of curriculum. If i remember it well, your founder book does not only talk about techniques but also talk about shaolin temple training too.
> ...


What good will come of knowing your instructor is teaching differently from the book? Any number of influances can change an instructors methods (God knows mine has). I know I could go to the Kenpo school down the street, but I'm going to find(and have already found just from watching them) that they too are deviating from the book.
Sean


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## Seig (Jan 22, 2004)

If as you say, they have no other value, you can learn from reading them wether or not someone is teaching quality Kenpo, or wether they are a self promoted wannabe.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *If as you say, they have no other value, you can learn from reading them wether or not someone is teaching quality Kenpo, or wether they are a self promoted wannabe. *


So, How many contradictions would lead astudent to this conclusion? One, Two, Twenty? Mr. Parker was a minimalist as previosly stated by Doc, there is lots of room for interpretation. That means we are to do the work and we are all going to come up with different conclusions. If a student is looking for reasons to quit, he or she will find one.
Sean


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *What good will come of knowing your instructor is teaching differently from the book?  *



if your teacher doesn't teach AK to you, he should not tell everybody he is teaching AK. Period.

you know why we have law and guidance so that other can follow if they choose to follow.

what is the point of having guidance when your teacher teach differents, other teachers teach different. It is not double standards anymore it is multi-standards.

it is surely confusing, isn't it ????


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## Thesemindz (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *if your teacher doesn't teach AK to you, he should not tell everybody he is teaching AK. Period.*



I think he can teach American Kenpo of which Ed Parker was the founder and originator using Mr. Parker's concepts, theories, principles, and generally similar techniques, without teaching Ed Parker's American Kenpo using the exact same curriculum. 

Are even the EPAK guys using the same exact curriculum Mr. Parker was? At what time of his life? He changed the way he taught techniques over time and even taught different people the same technique different ways. How can you say there is only one way to do kenpo? I was taught that kenpo was a system of learning, not a style of martial arts.

-Rob


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Thesemindz _
> *I think he can teach American Kenpo of which Ed Parker was the founder and originator using Mr. Parker's concepts, theories, principles, and generally similar techniques, without teaching Ed Parker's American Kenpo using the exact same curriculum.
> 
> Are even the EPAK guys using the same exact curriculum Mr. Parker was? At what time of his life? He changed the way he taught techniques over time and even taught different people the same technique different ways. How can you say there is only one way to do kenpo? I was taught that kenpo was a system of learning, not a style of martial arts.
> ...



oh boy, i am glad that i didn't learn AK NOT because it is no good.

it is so different and certainly confusing. God knows what happens. I'll let AK people decide and DEBATE


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *if your teacher doesn't teach AK to you, he should not tell everybody he is teaching AK. Period.
> 
> you know why we have law and guidance so that other can follow if they choose to follow.
> ...


Yeah, what is the point? Who is confused? This is the planet earth, different people have different standards. Why is that confusing? You either trust your instructor or you do not. Now that Mr. Parker has passed, and you see slight differences in the book than what you have interpreted. What is a person who has never met Mr. Parker to do? These were not technical; manuals they were broad sweeping concepts meant to make you work toward your goals. I contend that the kenpo school down the street may attempt to convince you that they are by the book; however, the devil is in the details.
Sean:asian:


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *Yeah, what is the point? Who is confused? This is the planet earth, different people have different standards. Why is that confusing? You either trust your instructor or you do not. Now that Mr. Parker has passed, and you see slight differences in the book than what you have interpreted. What is a person who has never met Mr. Parker to do? These were not technical; manuals they were broad sweeping concepts meant to make you work toward your goals. I contend that the kenpo school down the street may attempt to convince you that they are by the book; however, the devil is in the details.
> Sean:asian: *



sure, different people have different standards. That is the reason why people nowsday don't know the different any more because they are so confused.

i don't advocate you to bring edparker's book and question your teacher why he doesn't teach what the book shows.

you decide if you want to read the book or learn whoever you want BUT if you see other people do different, do not ask why there are different because nobody can answer that for you.

oops, i guess. learning kenpo is so different because it doesn't make you look like other BUT yourself


if you get your a.s.s kicked for looking like yourself, learning AK kenpo is certainly a good idea. I'm sure innovation from other has to do with it


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *sure, different people have different standards. That is the reason why people nowsday don't know the different any more because they are so confused.
> 
> i don't advocate you to bring edparker's book and question your teacher why he doesn't teach what the book shows.
> ...


 can any one beside cool KD tell me whom is confused beside Cool KD. Less people train in the Kempo you train in so there is less variation; so, what?


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## CoolKempoDude (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *can any one beside cool KD tell me whom is confused beside Cool KD. Less people train in the Kempo you train in so there is less variation; so, what? *



kempo/kenpo is the same. People call me coolkempodude and coolkenpodude. I have no problem with that.

now get back to your "so what" question.


if you keep your "so what" attitude while learning, you will  go no where. That is simple, heh?

if you don't know the different between what you learn and other learn, why bother asking "so what" question because it doesn't make any different in your mind any way???????


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CoolKempoDude _
> *kempo/kenpo is the same. People call me coolkempodude and coolkenpodude. I have no problem with that.
> 
> now get back to your "so what" question.
> ...


My goals in class are to follow the instructors lesson plan, no undermine it by claiming the book is really where he should get his lesson plan. We have made a few alterations based on what the tech is supposed to teach. The moves are then subject to the equation formula. The equation formula exists to handle what ever "story" may come along. The inward block off the lead hand in "Five swords" may either be done as taught in the book, or you may alter it to just flow directly into the outward sword hand without recoiling. Each school will develope its art the way the instructor and students see fit. What ever alterations are made will redefine timming(sp) and angles. Again I say, so what? The books are guides, not biblical passages, however, just like in religeon, a person will see what he has led himself to see, and the art will reflect and reinforce that.
Sean


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## Goldendragon7 (Jan 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _*
> 
> The books are guides, not biblical passages, however, a person will see what he has led himself to see, and his art will reflect and reinforce that.     Sean
> *



I soooooooooo agree with you.

:asian:


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