# Jutte, Sai, Jian questions



## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

I apologize again for my questions from this Old Iowa Man - NOT intending to become an expert but based on my basic skills and knife and stick knowledge - ANY comments and help are taken with no offense to my lack of knowledge and I have researched as much as I can - 1. For a defense weapon not needing special training is there any preference between the Jutte, Sai or a jian? Is there any "MAJOR" difference between the $20.00 juttes and the more expensive ones? Is there any 'MAJOR" differences between the $25-30.00 sais and the $50-60.00 sais? Thanks to all for your help and patience with me - Best regards OIM


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## clfsean (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> I apologize again for my questions from this Old Iowa Man - NOT intending to become an expert but based on my basic skills and knife and stick knowledge - ANY comments and help are taken with no offense to my lack of knowledge and I have researched as much as I can - 1. For a defense weapon not needing special training is there any preference between the Jutte, Sai or a jian? Is there any "MAJOR" difference between the $20.00 juttes and the more expensive ones? Is there any 'MAJOR" differences between the $25-30.00 sais and the $50-60.00 sais? Thanks to all for your help and patience with me - Best regards OIM



A jian is a sword. DOuble edged. thinnish, meant for moving, stabbing & slicing. 

A jutte & sai are more truncheon like. Shorter, heavier, blunted. More meant for stopping/trapping/breaking a bladed weapon.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 23, 2014)

You keep asking questions each week regarding a new type of exotic weapon for self-defense. Some of these weapons are difficult or dangerous to practice on your own. Some are normally practiced only for historical value. Some (like swords) are normally practiced with unsharpened replicas and could get you in serious legal trouble if you ever used the real thing against another person.

Here's my best suggestion for a practical weapon: a sturdy cane or walking stick. It can be just as effective as all the other weapons you've asked about. Since you have some physical challenges, you can easily get away with carrying it openly. The skills you learn on it will translate easily into any other improvised stick-like weapon you might pick up. The basic techniques can be learned much more easily than many of the weapons you have been asking about.  If you ever have to use it in self-defense it will be much easier to justify legally than something which is obviously some sort of martial arts weapon.

If your life situation is such that you are truly likely to be faced with life-or-death self-defense situations, you might consider a gun or knife. However both of these carry a lot more baggage in terms of potential real-life consequences. Odds are, you're better off with a stick or cane


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## Chris Parker (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> I apologize again for my questions from this Old Iowa Man - NOT intending to become an expert but based on my basic skills and knife and stick knowledge - ANY comments and help are taken with no offense to my lack of knowledge and I have researched as much as I can - 1. *For a defense weapon not needing special training is there any preference between the Jutte, Sai or a jian? *Is there any "MAJOR" difference between the $20.00 juttes and the more expensive ones? Is there any 'MAJOR" differences between the $25-30.00 sais and the $50-60.00 sais? Thanks to all for your help and patience with me - Best regards OIM



To the bolded&#8230; none of the above. You need special training for each of them&#8230; a Jian, as cfsean said, is a form of Chinese sword&#8230; not really anything to do with a "defence weapon"&#8230; Jutte and Sai are specialised items for a particular context, most notably with the Jutte being ideally to counter a swordsman&#8230; not really anything needing to be looked at for a "defence weapon"&#8230; so really&#8230; none of the above. Bad choices all. Additionally, you absolutely require training to use these items with any real competency.

Look, if you're after a weapon for defensive purposes, the first thing is to look to your local laws&#8230; swords, for instance, can require a special licence in places&#8230; so do Jutte and Sai here, for example&#8230; then you need to look at what you can get hold of, and, more importantly, get training in. Finally, look to the most common assaults/situations that might be encountered. Then, talk to your instructor about handling the situations in question.

You really, really, really don't need to worry about a $20 pair of sai versus a $60 pair. Yes, there can be quite a difference&#8230; but you don't have the experience to understand what that would be, and why it's important. Don't buy any.


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

Again - Thanks for all your suggestions - Let's just end this and I'll stay with my canes and sticks - Thanks again - Due to my situation I'll not waste any more of the forum peoples generous time - So long and my VERY BEST wishes - The End - OIM


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## Grenadier (May 23, 2014)

I may be able to answer one of your questions, but this answer is assuming that you do have a source of authentic knowledge when it comes to saijutsu.  



Old Iowa Man said:


> Is there any 'MAJOR" differences between the $25-30.00 sais and the $50-60.00 sais?



Yes.  

The $25 sai will be good only for decorative purposes.  Typically, these are horribly balanced, and you can't even do proper sai technique with them.  Most of the time, they'll have some extra cosmetic adornments, such as a plastic red jewel, or maybe have a decorative skull on them, either on the pommel or the guard.  You absolutely do NOT want to be learning on these sai, since you'll develop terrible fundamental technique that will be very difficult to correct.  

The $40-$60 sai aren't nearly as bad.  They're going to be made of a soft cast steel, and will be reasonably balanced to the point where a decent instructor will be able to teach you proper mechanics with these.  They're all going to be about the same, regardless of what your source is (AWMA, Century, Karate Depot, etc).  They'll also come in either the regular weight ones, or the "demonstration" ones.  The demo sai are a bit lighter, and slightly better balanced.  


You're really not going to see anything better, until you start getting into the mid 100's, where sai from Shureido or Kensho have much better balance than the $40-$60 sai.  For someone who has had a good bit of authentic saijutsu experience, and has a decent set of mechanics, he can certainly reap significant benefits by using a premium pair such as these. 

The next tier starts around the mid 200's, where you can get a pair custom made from someone like Phil Worbington.  If you feel that you're ready to reap the benefits from a customized pair, then I strongly encourage you to go for it.


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

SORRY - I thought a Jian was like a long mace, WRONG AGAIN! - Anyway, I'll not be making any further posts - You've all been Generous, Patient and Kind - I'll just learn from what other people post - OIM


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## Blindside (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> SORRY - I thought a Jian was like a long mace, WRONG AGAIN! - Anyway, I'll not be making any further posts - You've all been Generous, Patient and Kind - I'll just learn from what other people post - OIM



If you have a question, please as it.  To someone with a knowledge of two cultures of weapons and experience using them your question was basic, to most anybody else you question had value.  Thankfully the forums that were in existence in '97 when I started this online thing are now largely gone, otherwise my series of often very basic (and sometimes stupid) questions would be out there for all to see.  But I learned from them, and so can others.


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

Lamont - OK, and THANK YOU for your kindness - My circumstance, NOT looking for sympathy!! in Health and location are poor at best - There are days I'm on my back 95% of the day and am on more medication than anyone would want to hear about - I truly am trying to learn and will look for previous answers before I ask ANY more questions - I'm basically trying to keep my hope to keep living and getting better - I have a friend from China coming for a visit this weekend and will be able to ask him a lot of questions about their culture and more as he got me started in Chinese calligraphy and years ago when I started he said I was better at it than many Chinese - since then MANY health problems have plagued me and still do, some with no cures - So again MANY THANKS for your encouragement, you truly have NO idea what it means to me - All my BEST - OIM

IS there anyone that lives somewhat close to south-central Iowa that would just like to talk sometime? If so I'll provide my direct email and then my phone # - Thanks again:boing1:


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## jks9199 (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> Lamont - OK, and THANK YOU for your kindness - My circumstance, NOT looking for sympathy!! in Health and location are poor at best - There are days I'm on my back 95% of the day and am on more medication than anyone would want to hear about - I truly am trying to learn and will look for previous answers before I ask ANY more questions - I'm basically trying to keep my hope to keep living and getting better - I have a friend from China coming for a visit this weekend and will be able to ask him a lot of questions about their culture and more as he got me started in Chinese calligraphy and years ago when I started he said I was better at it than many Chinese - since then MANY health problems have plagued me and still do, some with no cures - So again MANY THANKS for your encouragement, you truly have NO idea what it means to me - All my BEST - OIM
> 
> IS there anyone that lives somewhat close to south-central Iowa that would just like to talk sometime? If so I'll provide my direct email and then my phone # - Thanks again:boing1:


A suggestion or two...

For functional defense, if you can't carry a gun in your condition, sticks are about your best choice, for all the various reasons listed above.  I'd also honestly consider a Taser C2.  It's essentially designed as a throwaway weapon to incapacitate an attacker.  There are also flashlights with stunguns built into them; if legal in your area, you might consider something like that.

For mental activity and interest, reshape your question.  Rather than focus on exotic weapons you can use -- learn the history and learn about the exotic weapons.  You might be able to learn how to use a few of them, or at least some moves with them, but your self-described physical condition suggests that learning any of them is going to be limited.  *That doesn't keep you from learning ABOUT them!*  Learn about anything that interests you!  I recall reading about how Gichin Funakoshi's wife, after years of watching him, was able to offer beneficial corrections to his students, though she was never seen to practice karate herself.


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> A suggestion or two...
> 
> 
> For mental activity and interest, reshape your question.  Rather than focus on exotic weapons you can use -- learn the history and learn about the exotic weapons.  You might be able to learn how to use a few of them, or at least some moves with them, but your self-described physical condition suggests that learning any of them is going to be limited.  *That doesn't keep you from learning ABOUT them!*  Learn about anything that interests you!  I recall reading about how Gichin Funakoshi's wife, after years of watching him, was able to offer beneficial corrections to his students, though she was never seen to practice karate herself.



Good suggestions - Got LOTS of hickory for shafts and exotic wood for handles about a few genuine bent hickory canes to smooth out and apply artwork to - Thanks VERY much - OIM


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> You keep asking questions each week regarding a new type of exotic weapon for self-defense. Some of these weapons are difficult or dangerous to practice on your own. Some are normally practiced only for historical value. Some (like swords) are normally practiced with unsharpened replicas and could get you in serious legal trouble if you ever used the real thing against another person.
> 
> Here's my best suggestion for a practical weapon: a sturdy cane or walking stick. It can be just as effective as all the other weapons you've asked about. Since you have some physical challenges, you can easily get away with carrying it openly. The skills you learn on it will translate easily into any other improvised stick-like weapon you might pick up. The basic techniques can be learned much more easily than many of the weapons you have been asking about.  If you ever have to use it in self-defense it will be much easier to justify legally than something which is obviously some sort of martial arts weapon.
> 
> If your life situation is such that you are truly likely to be faced with life-or-death self-defense situations, you might consider a gun or knife. However both of these carry a lot more baggage in terms of potential real-life consequences. Odds are, you're better off with a stick or cane



Or maybe an expandable baton


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Or maybe an expandable baton



Another good suggestion - Can you offer a good place in the USA and suggestion as to what model(s)? The help would be appreciated - OIM


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> Another good suggestion - Can you offer a good place in the USA and suggestion as to what model(s)? The help would be appreciated - OIM



If I were going to buy one I would buy it from Galls but there may be other better places to purchase one


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## Blindside (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> Another good suggestion - Can you offer a good place in the USA and suggestion as to what model(s)? The help would be appreciated - OIM



The best one on the market is the Bonowi camlock, but I am not sure who the distributer is these days.  For a while my instructor was the one representing them here in the states, but it doesn't look like he is anymore.  The things are a tank compared to most of the other expandables.


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## Old Iowa Man (May 23, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> If I were going to buy one I would buy it from Galls but there may be other better places to purchase one



Thanks - I checked and they have lot of them - If they have 4 or 5 stars are they good ones to consider? Can't afford the real expensive ones but they have some I can afford - Is there any MAJOR differences, other than price? Thanks if anyone cares to comment further - OIM


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## jks9199 (May 23, 2014)

Old Iowa Man said:


> Another good suggestion - Can you offer a good place in the USA and suggestion as to what model(s)? The help would be appreciated - OIM



Lots of places to buy them.  ASP and Monadnock are two of the main manufacturers.  You have two broad choices: friction lock or some sort of mechanical lock or button.  There are pros and cons to both.  In general, look for quality materials.  Price range for quality stuff is probably $50 to $100.  Don't buy a $20 piece of crap; it won't lock well, won't release well, and won't be quality material.  It'll likely bend just swinging it...


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## Old Iowa Man (May 24, 2014)

jks9199 said:


> Lots of places to buy them.  ASP and Monadnock are two of the main manufacturers.  You have two broad choices: friction lock or some sort of mechanical lock or button.  There are pros and cons to both.  In general, look for quality materials.  Price range for quality stuff is probably $50 to $100.  Don't buy a $20 piece of crap; it won't lock well, won't release well, and won't be quality material.  It'll likely bend just swinging it...



Thanks much for the advice - OIM


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## Old Iowa Man (May 24, 2014)

Well thanks to everyone again - I've checked and I CANNOT carry a collapsible baton legally in my state without a concealed weapons permit - Unfortunately after having one since I got out of the service in the early 1970's when I had my health problems and had to go and see "shrinks", just being honest, I can no longer have one now  in my state - Life goes on - I can still carry a cane of which I have many and maybe someday should my strength come back and my tools be set up I'll make more - I designed a very nice one and wholesaled them to a well known martial arts company I won't mention until I finally couldn't keep up with their needs because they sold so well - So, with what I already know and since I have no instructor I am going to eventually buy a DVD on cane use - It can't hurt and may even help since I have no access to a local instructor - Wish me luck!!!! If you have any suggestions on DVD for canes feel free to comment - Otherwise I've researched them the best I could and have one in the wish list on Amazon - MUCH appreciation again to all - OIM


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