# Iga Ryu or Koga Ryu?



## allenjp (Apr 30, 2008)

Hi all,

I have seen some info on line talking about either Iga ryu or Koga ryu ninjutsu. Some say that they are more authentically ninjutsu than bujinkan because of the Samurai components of Bujinkan. I even saw one man claiming to be soke of Iga Ryu (an American, I thought that was rather interesting). One woman was even claiming to have learned Koga Ryu from someone other than Masaaki Hatsumi. Any comments on these?


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## Kreth (Apr 30, 2008)

Short answer, you have Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan. Everything else is either someone with a bit of training in one of the "big 3" going off to do their own thing, or flat out:
:bs:


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## blood shadow (Apr 30, 2008)

wait a minute nobody teaches koga ryu anymore nobody alive anyway.


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## Chris Parker (May 1, 2008)

Hi,

Yeah, I've really gotta agree with the above. The thing to remember here is that there really wasn't Iga Ryu and Koga Ryu per se, rather there were two distinct areas in Japan where the skills and tactics of what would later be called Ninjutsu began (although some later schools refered to themselves as Koga Ryu specifically, albeit an individual branch/version of it, such as Wada-ha Koga Ryu). Each geographical group (Iga and Koga) had a number of clans/families/schools/Ryu within their area, and these schools collectively would be classed as either Iga or Koga Ryu respectively. From memory, Koga Ryu was often made up of only a few schools, whereas Iga Ryu was made up of the systems of a much larger number (73, I think... although that is highly debatable.) The schools which form part of the Bujinkan/Genbukan/Jinenkan/various split-off organisations (of which I am a member of one) could all be classed as Iga Ryu... in that the Togakure Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, Gikan Ryu, Kumogakure Ryu, and Gyokushin Ryu are all said to have originated in the Iga region. So you can learn Iga Ryu, if you want to classify it that way. Just not as a separate, individual school, because that school never existed.


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## allenjp (May 1, 2008)

Kreth said:


> Short answer, you have Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan. Everything else is either someone with a bit of training in one of the "big 3" going off to do their own thing, or flat out:
> :bs:


 
Dude, you raised the flag...that's it, end of discussion...the BS flag has been raised, I love it. I kind of thought that may be the case. As far as I know the Japanese govt. has only recognized one official expert and owner of these scrolls. It just makes you wonder...what about to shin do? Is that considered part of Bujinkan? I like the way they train for defense against boxing style punches, but it seems to me there is a little too much "feel good" stuff going on there. Any comments?


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## MJS (May 1, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have seen some info on line talking about either Iga ryu or Koga ryu ninjutsu. Some say that they are more authentically ninjutsu than bujinkan because of the Samurai components of Bujinkan. I even saw one man claiming to be soke of Iga Ryu (an American, I thought that was rather interesting). One woman was even claiming to have learned Koga Ryu from someone other than Masaaki Hatsumi. Any comments on these?


 
In all honesty, I'd stick with the groups that Kreth listed.  Here are some links:

Bujinkan schools

Genbukan

Jinenkan


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## Kreth (May 1, 2008)

allenjp said:


> As far as I know the Japanese govt. has only recognized one official expert and owner of these scrolls.


This is a common misconception. AFAIK, Hatsumi sensei has not been officially recognized by the Japanese government in any official capacity aside from this cultural award.


> It just makes you wonder...what about to shin do? Is that considered part of Bujinkan? I like the way they train for defense against boxing style punches, but it seems to me there is a little too much "feel good" stuff going on there. Any comments?


It's Hayes' interpretation of what he learned in the Bujinkan. A little too compartmentalized for my taste.


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## orang_baik (May 22, 2008)

there is one big master of iga/koga ryu : ashida kim


<run away........>


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## allenjp (May 22, 2008)

orang_baik said:


> there is one big master of iga/koga ryu : ashida kim
> 
> 
> <run away........>


 
Dude, don't dis the KIM, he really levitates...I saw it once on video...at least, I think I did, he kept disappearing so it was hard to tell. *laughs and shakes head in disgust*


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## newtothe dark (May 22, 2008)

It truely is a shame that we all have Kim stuck in our heads so he cant ever go away. What a waste of air he is.


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## blood shadow (May 26, 2008)

ashida kim ah thanks alot I just forgot about him and his ski mask dork-jutsu.notice that when he is asked about his training he always tries to avoid the question .Thats probly what makes him think he's ninja he only uses evasion skills.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 26, 2008)

Had some kid come to the jail to visit some female inmate and I saw a NIN kanji tattooed on the back of his neck. He claimed that his sensei trains under Grandmaster Ashida Kim in Lake Alfred. I didn't realize this guy lives practically in my back yard......I guess the celestial spies have finally caught up with me.....LOL


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## kwaichang (May 27, 2008)

What ever art you study, ouside of Japan, should be able to trace it's lineage or at least its particular sytle, back to Japan, Korea, etc.

For anyone teaching Ninjitsu (yep there goes my spelling again), they should be able to point to which area their style originated from.  As the art is not a US or Brazilian or any other countrys art, save Japan.


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## allenjp (May 27, 2008)

Obi Wan Shinobi said:


> Had some kid come to the jail to visit some female inmate and I saw a NIN kanji tattooed on the back of his neck. He claimed that his sensei trains under Grandmaster Ashida Kim in Lake Alfred. I didn't realize this guy lives practically in my back yard......I guess the celestial spies have finally caught up with me.....LOL


 
Anyone thinking of "training" with this idiot should be forced to watch his videos. Have you seen them? They have definitive proof.........that he is a fraud.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 27, 2008)

That "Ninja Levitation" video on Youtube speaks volumes as to the fraud this person teaches...


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## allenjp (May 27, 2008)

Exactly the one I was referring to...also the one about the great "world martial arts grandmaster conferences" in which he participated. Great comedy.


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## blood shadow (May 28, 2008)

I dont think he had many friends as a child and he just saw too many movies.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (May 28, 2008)

Yeah well you ever heard of when someone lies so much that they actually believe their lies to be true? Here we have Soke Ashida Kim-Sama of the Koga Hai Lung Ryu Ninjitsu....LMAO :rofl:


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## numchucks (Mar 17, 2021)

I think the unfortunate reality is we will never know for sure. That is, and was the point. Because of their social class at the time, secrecy and desception were essential to their survival and the efficiency of their methods and skills. The only way to know is to have been there and have been part of the inner circle, and even then, you they may not have shown their descendants (kohais) everything for various reasons. What we do know, is what we have today.

As for their authenticity and integrity to medieval Jappanese ninjutsu; is really for practioners, or potential practioners to decide.


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