# Last Minute Choice



## Nicholas82555 (Jun 14, 2010)

I've narrowed my school selection based on distance 25 or 95 min drives. There'a a LT school and a Kenneth Cheung school (San Jose). All else being equal which system do you think would offer a solid foundation in WC??

Speed is essential but a committed solid technique is also. The footwork I found at a one time LT class left my knees sore and I didn't feel the mobility in footwork I was accustomed to as a boxer. I felt as though something would get away from me that normally I would have caught

I know Kenneth Cheung from what I read is not well known but the few write ups place him among the best in the states.

The but not least just got for it and change laterly as circumstances change.


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 14, 2010)

I don't really know Directly about LT scools, but I am in EBMAS so it's fairly close. I LOVE the footwork, it takes a loot of time, and a lotttt of practice, but man.. I'm a tan skinny skinny guy, I'm very fast and mobile naturally, and at first it made me feel very uncomfortable and seemed slower and less mobile, but since having trained it for 20-22 months I can say that I am definitely grateful for the great assets of mobility it has given me. Being able to take a nice step from the 100% weight in rear leg fighting stance has a lot of benefits in my mind, you can get full body mass quickly into a punch from a short distance, works from afar too. outfalling and going with the enemys force seems to be a great asset from our footwork as well. I mean not to say the others systems don't have there perfectly functioning methods. I do feel from most of what I've seen that the system of shifting we apply seems to be best suited for a person who is facing someone larger and stronger. Being a mere 150 pounds I am quite happy about this. Best of luck wherever your feet take you.


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## geezer (Jun 14, 2010)

Nabakatsu has a point. The "LT" WT footwork is tough to get a handle on at first... but if the teacher is good, he'll help you and you'll find it to be very mobile. On the other hand, if you are really stuck on your boxing footwork, a school with a looser approach to stances and steps might be easier to adapt to.


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## Nicholas82555 (Jun 14, 2010)

Nabakatsu said:


> I don't really know Directly about LT scools, but I am in EBMAS so it's fairly close. I LOVE the footwork, it takes a loot of time, and a lotttt of practice, but man.. I'm a tan skinny skinny guy, I'm very fast and mobile naturally, and at first it made me feel very uncomfortable and seemed slower and less mobile, but since having trained it for 20-22 months I can say that I am definitely grateful for the great assets of mobility it has given me. Being able to take a nice step from the 100% weight in rear leg fighting stance has a lot of benefits in my mind, you can get full body mass quickly into a punch from a short distance, works from afar too. outfalling and going with the enemys force seems to be a great asset from our footwork as well. I mean not to say the others systems don't have there perfectly functioning methods. I do feel from most of what I've seen that the system of shifting we apply seems to be best suited for a person who is facing someone larger and stronger. Being a mere 150 pounds I am quite happy about this. Best of luck wherever your feet take you.



Thanks Nak     I like the ending) R U being a comedian)))


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## Nicholas82555 (Jun 14, 2010)

I by no means am stuck to the boxers foot work. I just want to be rooted for that split second to deliver a strike that will catch his attention. If u have ever saw the documentary "Fighting Knights" Those 3 WCners were pathetic. The Kyokushin Boys look at my man like he was a pest...then proceeded to crush him on the spot. Poor rep for WC.


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 14, 2010)

I have seen that, let me post a random clip of ebmas applications


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## KamonGuy2 (Jun 15, 2010)

In my opinion, Kenneth Chung would be a far better choice. I know you want to train in speed and power, but these are not as important as good technique (ie if you outclass and outposition your opponent, speed doesnt matter).

I am very biased against LT himself as I have found him to be a terrible person. However, some of his instructors have turned out okay (although most of them dont stay with him). 

Do you know who the instructor is for the LT school?


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## rizzo (Jun 15, 2010)

I talked with some former LT guys in MA that said its an impressive system but not worth the hassle of dealing with the politics of the organization, even if the instructor is a decent guy.  Just as easy to get the knowledge you want with someone less political as long as they spar, good training partners.  

I wanted to be able to do both BJJ and WC but there are issues that some WC people have with doing BJJ.  Personally, I think its an ideal compliment.  

Stop by both places and check it out before you make a decision.  A lot of people that are very good instructors are not the most well known.  Don't have to do to the William Cheungs and LT's of the world to get good instruction.


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## Nicholas82555 (Jun 15, 2010)

I'm going to head up to San Jose where Sifu Ben Der assistant to Sifu Kenneth Cheung teaches next week BUT here is a web for the Santa Cruz/Scotts Valley CA WC school.
http://www.wingchunsantacruz.com/


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## geezer (Jun 15, 2010)

rizzo said:


> *Stop by both places* and check it out before you make a decision.  A lot of people that are very good instructors are not the most well known.  Don't have to do to the William Cheungs and LT's of the world to get good instruction.



It's always a good Idea to stop by and see for yourself. 

Now about the LTs and William Cheungs of the world... I will not defend the business practices or the inflated claims of either. But there is a difference. When it comes to kung-fu, LT is the real deal. 

However, like you said Rizzo, there are others who can give you good instruction. I found one of them, too.


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## rizzo (Jun 15, 2010)

I didn't mean to imply that LT/Cheung don't know their stuff. I'm sure they are both very good.   Its getting to be the same with BJJ.  You dont have to got to the guy with the biggest school/organization to get good instruction.  Now a days that can be very expensive and then your just another face in the crowd.  i.e. Politics

Just need to find a school with a decent student/instructor ratio. Especially if they compete.  Proves that they are doing something right.  Just not sure how WC "competes" as an art, other than some live sparring within the school.


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## KamonGuy2 (Jun 16, 2010)

rizzo said:


> I talked with some former LT guys in MA that said its an impressive system but not worth the hassle of dealing with the politics of the organization, even if the instructor is a decent guy. Just as easy to get the knowledge you want with someone less political as long as they spar, good training partners.
> 
> I wanted to be able to do both BJJ and WC but there are issues that some WC people have with doing BJJ. Personally, I think its an ideal compliment.
> 
> Stop by both places and check it out before you make a decision. A lot of people that are very good instructors are not the most well known. Don't have to do to the William Cheungs and LT's of the world to get good instruction.


 
You are spot on Rizzo. BJJ is a very useful tool to have. I think chunners get scared that they arent doing 'pure' wing chun if they learn another art. I found cross training extremely beneficial to my wing chun. My strongest art is wing chun and probably always will be, but if I ever need it, I have other arts to fall back on (ie if I came across a wing chunner of equal skill, I could outplay him by using alternative techniques)

I am not a LT fan at all. Some of his students have been very good, but they have usually found the skills elsewhere. There are lots of politics in WC and it is fairly important to know what they are (some instructors take things very seriously and wont always train you if you declare that you are from a certain school etc), but try and find schools without too many politics. Whilst I dont like the way LT does things, I would never turn away an enthusiastic student from WT who wanted to train with me or show me something. Its just sad that the WC guys who usually come to my class from other schools feel they have something to prove


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## geezer (Jun 16, 2010)

Kamon Guy said:


> I am not a LT fan at all. Some of his students have been very good, but they have usually found the skills elsewhere... I dont like the way LT does things...



Is_ anybody_ a LT fan? I know several of his former top guys in the US. Well, the word _"former"_ pretty much sums it up. I also know one of his current top guys. He isn't allowed to communicate with me anymore. Too bad, since we've known each other since '79. Anyway, the last time I _did_ correspond with him... he didn't like LT either. Never really did. He just felt that since he's around 60 years old now, he has too much invested to change Sifus now. Kinda sad, really.

But like LT or not, _he has good kung-fu_. And, for a while... back in the '70s and 80s, he would actually teach it. Can you say the same about William Cheung?


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## Nabakatsu (Jun 16, 2010)

I know nothing about the politics, well, very little, and I take everything with a grain of salt, so I haven't formulated opinions, because I wasn't there, aside from LT is a creep, and William Chueng.. isn't exactly, my ideal teacher.
Aside from that, Speed and power are some of the least emphasized aspects of my Wing Tzun, It's all about proper structure, positioning, letting your dan chi and chi sau skills become utilized during a fight ect ect, speed and power come naturally once the movements are understood, regardless of size.


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## geezer (Jun 16, 2010)

Nabakatsu said:


> I know nothing about the politics, well, very little, and I take everything with a grain of salt...



Good for you _Nab._ You'll enjoy the art all the more if you can keep it that way.


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## KamonGuy2 (Jun 17, 2010)

geezer said:


> Is_ anybody_ a LT fan? I know several of his former top guys in the US. Well, the word _"former"_ pretty much sums it up. I also know one of his current top guys. He isn't allowed to communicate with me anymore. Too bad, since we've known each other since '79. Anyway, the last time I _did_ correspond with him... he didn't like LT either. Never really did. He just felt that since he's around 60 years old now, he has too much invested to change Sifus now. Kinda sad, really.
> 
> But like LT or not, _he has good kung-fu_. And, for a while... back in the '70s and 80s, he would actually teach it. Can you say the same about William Cheung?


 
The irony is that Cheung has a very good theoretical knowledge of WC. I read one of his books and it was actually very interesting. The disappointment comes when you look at his kung fu and how he applies it. There is a great clip on youtube of a black sash grading under Willian Cheng where the poor student is really giving it his all and he is obviously talented, but Cheung doesnt acknowledge him and then corrrects him at the end on something very minor. Then there is the whole issue of Cheung making ridiculous claims (he was the sole teacher of Bruce Lee and responsible for his success, and that Ip Man taught Cheung the only 'real' wing chun). Bozteppi showed very clearly that Cheung had nothing special in a practicla format

LT is a real nasty guy. I am shocked that the LT student isnt allowed to communicate with you anymore Geezer!!!
I dont think the guy would have any problem changing federations. In Kamon we have had some very good guys from other schools transfer across. Obviously there are certain things we do that they dont and vice versa, but the core is still the core. I know that WT often do weird contract things which is sad.


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