# 6 Year Old Suspended For Zero Tolerance



## MA-Caver (Oct 12, 2009)

> *It&#8217;s a Fork, It&#8217;s a Spoon, It&#8217;s a ... Weapon?  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Zachary hit the nail on the head with that "unfair" comment. How stupider are we going to allow school policies to get? How thick do these people have to be? 
I can hear those school board members now... "oh he might get mad at another student and he might use the sharp points/edges of that weapon against the student and seriously harm them... he might even try to use it against a teacher who is disciplining him. 
Gee... judge a six year old's character/disposition by what they got in their pockets.  
IMO Zach needs to stay at home-schooling. Sheesh! 

How are things going to be 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 
It's scary, it's sad, it's frustrating to think how affected our educational system in this country (which USED to be one of the FINEST in the WORLD) has become over the last 10 - 15 - 20 years. :miffer:


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## grydth (Oct 12, 2009)

Ask yourselves how often:

Zero Tolerance = Zero Justice
                         Zero Intelligence
                         Zero Fairness


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## celtic_crippler (Oct 12, 2009)

Sigh... Man are our public schools in a mess or what? 

What next? No more pencils? You know, you could put yer eye out with one of those things! 

How about focusing on education? Too much to ask?


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## girlbug2 (Oct 12, 2009)

Why couldn't the teacher simply confiscate it and notify the parents that it was inappropriate to bring it to school?

Wisdom is totally out of the picture here.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 12, 2009)

give someone a hug = sex offender
tap them on the shoulder = assault
bring a plastic knife in = weapons violation
make a gun out of your fingers and shout bang = expelled for posing a risk.

All have happened.

All are ****ing dumb.

And they wonder why kids spends twice as much time in school in the US compared to Japanese and European kids and are consistently lower scoring and less motivated?


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## CoryKS (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey, what a cute little guy! He looks like-- HOLY GOD HE'S GOT A WEAPON CALL 911!!!

This sounds like my kid's school.  Must be nice to have a script to follow so you don't have to think.


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## Big Don (Oct 12, 2009)

Zero Tolerance + Zero Flexibility = Zero common sense


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## jks9199 (Oct 12, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> Why couldn't the teacher simply confiscate it and notify the parents that it was inappropriate to bring it to school?
> 
> Wisdom is totally out of the picture here.


Because that would require someone to actually exercise some judgment and discretion, which could open the school up to allegations of being unfair...


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## Makalakumu (Oct 12, 2009)

School = Social Engineering.


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 12, 2009)

At least society's going to collapse soon and if anybody survives we can scratch this crap and start over.


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## celtic_crippler (Oct 12, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Because that would require someone to actually exercise some judgment and discretion, which could open the school up to allegations of being unfair...


 
They're too damned scared of a lawsuit and who could blame 'em?


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## Stac3y (Oct 12, 2009)

OK, yeah, this is stupid. This child shouldn't be punished so harshly--it's insane. But why on earth would parents let a kid take a knife to school? They knew it was against the rules, and it's not like the thing was a necessity. Plus, if it's the kind of combo utensil it appears to be, those are actually pretty sharp--they're made to cut meat. Seems there was a bit of contributary stupidity coming from the parents. I'm more concerned with the drug-related zero tolerance stuff--like kids getting suspended for carrying their (necessary) asthma inhalers to school. I had to fill out a 7 page form and get 2 signatures from the pediatrician so that my child could carry his with him.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 12, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Because that would require someone to actually exercise some judgment and discretion, which could open the school up to allegations of being unfair...


Well of course it woul ... uh too late!


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## arnisador (Oct 12, 2009)

This is nuts. I can see them taking it from him, but a 45 day suspension?



MA-Caver said:


> IMO Zach needs to stay at home-schooling.



My son was home-schooled, and became a black belt in arnis as his gym class--Filipino stick and knife fighting.


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## shesulsa (Oct 12, 2009)

Forty-five days. Wow. That's like the death penalty for shoplifting.

First offense, too.

I think someone needs to educate the educators.


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## shesulsa (Oct 12, 2009)

I decided to write an email to the school board:



> Doctors, Superintendent, Board members, Ladies and Gentlemen;
> 
> I am writing to you in appeal to good sense and sound judgement upon Zachary Christie in the event of finding him with a meal tool including a knife at school.  While I passionately share the zeal in preventing and abating weapons violence in schools, I am compelled to remember with the same importance that very young children make innocent mistakes.
> 
> ...


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## Archangel M (Oct 12, 2009)

They should keep homeschooling the kid. Schools exceeded their mandate years ago.


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## Ken Morgan (Oct 12, 2009)

My 8 year old Nephew just went back to school last week, he had some serious surgery two weeks earlier. One of his classmates walked up and gave him a hug. Fine right? Nope, zero tolerance for touching up here, the little girl was told by her teacher that shes not allowed to touch anyone at all.

Can someone tell me what the hell happened to common sense?


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## MA-Caver (Oct 12, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> My 8 year old Nephew just went back to school last week, he had some serious surgery two weeks earlier. One of his classmates walked up and gave him a hug. Fine right? Nope, zero tolerance for touching up here, the little girl was told by her teacher that shes not allowed to touch anyone at all.
> 
> Can someone tell me what the hell happened to common sense?


Basically insensitive and resentful people. People resentful of the things that happened to them in childhood that never got resolved or worked out and carried on through adulthood and now in a position of authority/power they feel they can assert their bad experiences and desires to do something about it, when before they were powerless, and say THIS is wrong, this is bad, this might happen that might happen. Insensitive when possibly they grew up in an abusive environment and the very thought of touching someone or being in a "personal space" is threatening... 

An overblown sense of personal rights projected onto other people. It's the same thing with harassment complaints... where it's gone TOO FAR. There is real harassment I'll agree, but it is carried too far when a simple gesture, a HUMAN gesture to show "hey I like you, you're a good person" (such as a pat on the back or shoulder) is misconstrued as a come-on or a prelude to unwanted sexual advances... a violation of personal space... (the solution is to ascertain INTENT before passing judgment and saying "back off".  
Or nightmares about Columbine and other similar school violence leads to Zero Tolerance Policies. 
In a college or upper high school I can understand but children? Especially those who are just barely past being toddlers? 
It's going TOO FAR and will teach our children to be cold, insensitive, untouching parents when they reach adulthood. Teach them that it's better to be of a herded sheep mentality and have nothing that could be used as a weapon on their persons... and so on.


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 12, 2009)

Leo Buscaglia was getting the "no touching" crap when he was a rug rat.....and he died in 1998 at age 74.   This has been going on a long time.


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## Bruno@MT (Oct 13, 2009)

Ken Morgan said:


> My 8 year old Nephew just went back to school last week, he had some serious surgery two weeks earlier. One of his classmates walked up and gave him a hug. Fine right? Nope, zero tolerance for touching up here, the little girl was told by her teacher that she&#8217;s not allowed to touch anyone at all.
> 
> *Can someone tell me what the hell happened to common sense?*



It got sued.


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 13, 2009)

Bruno@MT said:


> It got sued.



Sad but true. I too am of the "what happened to common sense" train of thought. It's absolutely ridiculous. Kudos to Geo for her letter. :asian:


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## arnisador (Oct 13, 2009)

Lawsuits--that's the reason. You can't be too careful, apparently.

What happened to the common sense of _juries_?


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## Archangel M (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't know about the lawsuit thing. In most of these cases where some 6 yo brings a butterknife to school w/his lunch, who is the victim? It's a different story if the kiddo threatens a classmate with it...that kids parents could sue, but in THIS case? Is the school gonna sue itself?


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## arnisador (Oct 13, 2009)

They reduced the suspension:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/


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## Bob Hubbard (Oct 13, 2009)

I dunno, I think they should have given him the death penalty. Maybe public stoning or something to put more fear into his classmates and make them more obedient.



That's sarcasm.


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## shesulsa (Oct 13, 2009)

One has to wonder what made them change their minds.  It seems at first they were going to uphold the rule, but once national press was involved and email boxes became full (I got the message on one email addy) perhaps common sense kicked in.


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## Lynne (Oct 13, 2009)

Poor little fella.  I hope his parents choose home school for the rest of his education.  Who wants to put up with such nonsense in the public schools?


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## Archangel M (Oct 13, 2009)

arnisador said:


> They reduced the suspension:
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33289924/ns/today-today_people/


 
From that article:


> Christina, which, according to its Web site, is the largest school district in Delaware with some 17,000 students, made its policy zero-tolerance because of concerns over racial discrimination. Studies have shown in other districts that when school officials are given discretion over such cases, African-American students are disciplined at a disproportionately high rate.


 
These are probably the same people who ***** about manditory sentencing and it's racial unfairness.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Oct 13, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> From that article:
> 
> 
> These are probably the same people who ***** about manditory sentencing and it's racial unfairness.


 
I don't get it.


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## Archangel M (Oct 13, 2009)

This is "manditory sentencing" on it's face. Because we don't want to be unfair, ALL kids will get the same punishment regardless of the circumstances.

Im wagering that these school administrators would be amongst the first to complain about the unfairness in our justice system but look at how they deal with issues of discipline within their own little "kingdom".


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## grydth (Oct 14, 2009)

It is mandatory sentencing on its face, without the brains behind it. 

How often it would be preferable to see *the actual bad guys* receive mandatory sentencing - after a full and fair set of proceedings to determine they in fact had committed a crime.

Funny how "zero tolerance" is so often used to quasi-criminalize good kids... while at the same time it seems the bad kids, the bullies and dealers, continue to get off light.


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 14, 2009)

*UPDATE*



> BEAR, Del.  A Delaware first-grader who was facing 45 days in an alternative school as punishment for taking his favorite camping utensil to school can return to class after the school board made a hasty change granting him a reprieve.



What? Common sense is actually being discussed? I'm shocked! 



> School board member John Mackenzie told The Associated Press before the meeting that he was surprised school officials did not use common sense and disregard the policy in Zachary's case. The need for common sense to prevail over the letter of the law was a recurring theme among the boy's supporters and school safety experts.
> 
> 
> "When that common sense is missing, it sends a message of inconsistency to students, which actually creates a less safe environment," said Kenneth S. Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services, a consulting firm. "People have to understand that assessing on a case-by-case basis doesn't automatically equate to being soft or unsafe."


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 14, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> From that article:
> 
> 
> These are probably the same people who ***** about manditory sentencing and it's racial unfairness.


 

If 70% of kids who get disciplined are ( insert race here) in a school district where 70% of the POPULATION is ( insert race here), that's not racial profiling, that's the Law of Averages.


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## Korppi76 (Oct 14, 2009)

I notice this little bit similar case


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## shesulsa (Oct 14, 2009)

This makes you wonder about how many schools are getting away with doling out punishment like this without being checked by the school board, doesn't it?


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## shesulsa (Oct 14, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> If 70% of kids who get disciplined are ( insert race here) in a school district where 70% of the POPULATION is ( insert race here), that's not racial profiling, that's the Law of Averages.



Yeah, not quite enough stats in the articles I found to figure that out in this case (but I honestly didn't dig too deeply).


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## MA-Caver (Oct 14, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> If 70% of kids who get disciplined are ( insert race here) in a school district where 70% of the POPULATION is ( insert race here), that's not racial profiling, that's the Law of Averages.


It was the same at my grade school growing up. There was more of one race than the other and the number of kids that got into fights/trouble were of that majority race. The number of fights I got into with that particular race was directly proportional. 

But this topic isn't about race is it?


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## jim777 (Oct 14, 2009)

My heart broke for that kid when I first saw that story. He's just about my son Seamus's age, who is also a Cub Scout, and I know how happy he must have been with this super, ultra cool new toy. How could you not want to show it off to everyone you know when it is sooo cool?! It's way cooler than a magnifying glass and maybe even a new baseball glove, and those are both pretty cool too 

I'm glad it has ended quickly and positively for the boy and his mom. It really should never have gotten beyond the teacher taking it away and giving it back to him at the end of the day with a stern "Don't bring it back in to school, please".


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## Andy Moynihan (Oct 18, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> It was the same at my grade school growing up. There was more of one race than the other and the number of kids that got into fights/trouble were of that majority race. The number of fights I got into with that particular race was directly proportional.
> 
> But this topic isn't about race is it?


 

No. I was directly responding to Arch.


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