# Value of seminars



## Pervaz (Oct 31, 2003)

Just wanted to get the general impression of people : When attending do you try to attend the seminar for "explanation/demonstration" or "do the work" ??

P


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## Jay Bell (Oct 31, 2003)

Yes


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## RobP (Oct 31, 2003)

Well for me at Mikhail's in London the other weekend it was mostly about being a camera man 

Still, I got 9 hours of great footage which hopefully will be put to good use.

It's a good question. I've seen this from three sides - as someone who attends, as someone who organises and as someone who teaches. Each has it's own pressures and rewards.

Attending - depends largely on who, when  and why. Being selfish, I'd love a small gorup seminar with Mikhail or Vlaidmir and be able to concentrate in-depth on one or two topics.

But - as an organiser, that doesn't help cover all the costs. Plus you get a lot of people wanting the chance to train and it's difficutl to turn keen people away.

As a teacher I generally ask in advance what people want to do. It's easier for me to run a specific session I find - though of course, with the Systema there is always an element of winging it.

Depends where I am teaching too - the "old hands" or a Karate group who have never seen Systema before.

Organising a seminar for others is a bit like having a party in your  house. Your job is to make sure everyone is OK, so you rarely get as much of a chance to join in the fun. 

I think with the big seminars there is also an element of people wanting a little entertainment - which is understandable, but shouldn't intrude too much.

The work / talk ratio is a difficult one and depends again on who and why.  I found Mikhail's explanations of blood pressure, etc, etc very interesting - but they won't make particulalry good video footage for example.  

An interesting question, I look forward to reading other viewpoints.


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## Clive (Oct 31, 2003)

Both.


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## Arthur (Oct 31, 2003)

> The work / talk ratio is a difficult one and depends again on who and why. I found Mikhail's explanations of blood pressure, etc, etc very interesting - but they won't make particulalry good video footage for example.



It would for me. I've seen the pony show.... I want to get better, to know more, to learn. I don't care aabout being entertained by video at all. I'd prefer an in depth useful lecture of a general demo anytime. I already have 15 tapes filled with Demo, action and other visually appealing stuff.

I think that's why Beyond the Physical and Personal Protection are my two favourite tapes. Plenty of explanation.

As to the original question. I go to learn and to plant the seeds that will allow me to grow over the next few months-years. I also go to see my friends. I feel I can generally do the work when I get home. If its something I could master in 4 hours... its probably something I didn't really need the instruction for.

Good question Pervaz and nice response Rob.

Arthur


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## NYCRonin (Oct 31, 2003)

I will work with my brother 'Rob's' 3 levels of involvement as a framework. I try to shy away from the 'organizational' part of a seminar...even my own. I might put up a 'notice announcement' - sometimes someone else will. The 'money/release/time' is done by one of my regulars, usually. 
When 'contracted' to do a seminar - I give as many ideas for success as possible to the person who wants me to teach, based on what I know has worked well in the past.

As a participant - it depends on the work presented and my partner. If working something I really need to develop - when its my turn...I am kinda greedy, until I get the gist of the subject. Then when my partners turn comes, I let them do for themself - and correct or lead as best I can to help them understand, if needed. I have attended seminars where it is mixed - train for myself but when the work is something I do well - I often dont partner up and just wander around trying to help the less experienced. We are kinda lucky in NY/NJ area - usually seeing Vlad 3 or more times a year. The handful of affiliates who attend these seminars pretty much seem to do the same as I. Alternating between training and helping out - and with lots of new folk at any given seminar, we often wind up helping more than training. *& See 'RANT' below*.(This is also a learning experience...Vlad keeps an eye on us all and helps us become better 'teachers'). If I had the perfect situation for attending...I would prefer enough explanation to get me into the concept AND a partner(s) experienced enough to 'do the work' at a level where we both are gaining from it...then just let us 'do' it for awhile, refining us with supervision.

>> RANT! It is also the reason that I never 'charge' any affiliate instructor who attends any seminar I am involved with. They are my 'brothers and sisters' and I REFUSE to charge 'family'...particularly when they are so determined to see that the seminar is a success overall. Hell, Jackal can attest that at one of my less attended seminars in Brooklyn this summer - (almost) EACH paying attendee  had an instructor to work with during the entire session. 3 hrs. of individualized training with a personal instructor for only $50...man, a bargain I wish I could arrange for my own training.
AND WE STILL HAD A BLAST AT THE SEMINAR...and at dinner afterwards <<END OF RANT).

As the 'instructor' of a seminar - I believe you have to be flexable.
Each time the experience level of the participants varies. Demo's to 'show' what the System can 'manifest in movement' - followed by exercises that tie into the theme of the seminar (I prefer to have an underlying theme to seminars I do). Demonstration of particular 'movement' or defense, strike, whatever...followed by some verbal description of the reasons for what I have shown. Then it is the participants turn 'to do'. Raw beginners tend to need more description then actual practise. I agree that I want them to be able to practise the 'reason' when I am gone. It takes so much individual practise to get. lets say; 'wavelike movement' that you could do a whole seminar on just that but the new student dont 'feel' it yet and will not have application practise/examples.
With more experienced practitoners making up the larger part - sometimes I say  relatively little, I demo...show some variations - then let the crew have at it as I walk around attempting to refine the things they do in response to my demo.
You have to suit the emphasis for the room though - you never know who is attending or their agenda. Sometimes you might have to deal with those determined to prove where their chosen method is SOOOO much better than Systema - and you have to not only be firmly diplomatic but must also be able to, at times, physically back up your qualifications to be 'The Seminar Instructor'. Words are the preferred medium but, regretably; the 'physiological resolution' (Thanks for the term, Furtry) is all they will understand...you cant just 'talk the talk' you must be able to 'walk the walk'.

Pet Peeve Section: In seminars, in general, I have a deep and abiding dislike for any instructor who spends so much time proving 'aint I great - look at what I can do' and then do nothing that shows how to do the same thing. I also dislike those that use the seminar as an excuse to take less experienced participants and attempt to impress by actually hurting them -- I think every seminar participant has encountered these borderline sadists at one time or another, in some art.

Ok, Ok, enough! Sorry for the long, venting post.


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## TAZ (Oct 31, 2003)

To answer the original question..

I attend a seminar to learn.. I do not know what I do not know and a seminar teaches me this from both the instructor an the attendee's...the Chance to train with different people with little or no exposure to the system is invaluable in itself...

From a teaching point of view...the rewards of people smiling during the event and chatting after the event with that undercurrent of feeling that no one wants it to end...

so back to the original question...the explanation is vital. the work is critical to understand the explination....

The only thing that should be mandatory is that ego's are left in the changing room...


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## Clive (Feb 13, 2004)

Inspiration is another reason. :iws:


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## Mark Jakabcsin (Feb 13, 2004)

Seminars open the mind to possibilities. Good seminars show participants avenues they might explore to learn those possibilities. The actual learning takes place during the exploration/training AFTER the seminar. If and only if the participants put forth the effort after the seminar will it have any lasting value.

mark


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## theletch1 (Feb 13, 2004)

I attend seminars to learn by doing.


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