# Hapkido Schools



## Black Belt FC (Sep 14, 2004)

Wondering how many Hapkido schools in the USA. Schools teaching some Hapkido with Taekwondo shouldn't count.


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## Disco (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, I hate to see a thread go without some input, so here goes. True Hapkido schools seem to be an endangered species. Every school that I have seen has Hapkido classes offered, but they are primarily TKD dojangs. I think this is the only way many of the instructors can keep their doors open.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 15, 2004)

I know of at least 2 in Illinois, and 1 in Ft Worth Indiana.


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## Paul B (Sep 15, 2004)

Make that 2 in Illinois,1 in Merrillville,IN,1 in Valparaiso,IN,1 in Ft.Worth,IN,and one in Bloomington,IN. and probably 40 in Indianapolis!


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## Kumbajah (Sep 15, 2004)

We have 4 in our Federation in the US - Jin Pal Hapkido. The KFH has 7 or more listed on their site. Master West has a quite a few listed on his site as well.

Brian


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## Iowa Hapkido (Sep 16, 2004)

In Iowa there is one in Des Moines, one in Ames, and good programs at the University of Iowa and Iowa State.


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## Black Belt FC (Sep 16, 2004)

I estimated that there're 30 to 40 full time complete curriculum school Hapkido schools in the country. My guess is that the numbers are falling due to lack of involvement/interest of new students and instructors who change their venue of interest. In addition, some instructors prefer (due to liability risk) to take the easy road and just add a little basic Hapkido techniques to their program and proclaim that they teach Hapkido. 

To add on to the difficulty of offering a program some Hapkido instructors attack instructors who proclaim to teach Hapkido program in their schools. If Hapkido is to survive all current Hapkido connoisseurs should try to support and educate future generations. 

Lets be honest Hapkido when taught with wrist grabs, hip/shoulder throws and joint locks isnt for everyone, NO ONE LIKES BEING TOUCH. The future survivor of Hapkido lies in creating curriculums with safe precise direction and build-up to Black Belt.

Leadership. Just recently I gat in contact with a Hapkido Master near me who trained with Dae Hoon Choi personally and ask him for his assistant; he didnt turn me down neither did he accepted. It was more like dont call me I call you; in addition my pocket wasn't deep enough for him. This is shameful! I hold Masters like him responsible of the current state of Hapkido. However, on the other side of the coin therere Masters like Whalen who sacrifice everything to promote the art. Master Whalen your not losing a school your gaining one in New York with new students/friends. 

Im no one of great rank or authority to criticized Hapkido however, I do teach a full Hapkido curriculum at my school. Some days I feel like the last line of defense on the front; either you join me or get out of the way, let others who are willing to sacrifice promote the art.
Lugo


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## Paul B (Sep 16, 2004)

So true. Why is that,do you think? Snobbery of one who has trained "with the masters"? People like that, are people I have no desire to learn from. How can they teach through the veil of their own prejudices?

Personally,I would train and share/gain knowledge from anyone regardless of affiliation,art or whathaveyou. 

I do see the need for a shift in mentality from "my" Hapkido group to "our" Hapkido,period. Organizational politicing is disaster waiting to happen. How many great teachers and students have fallen or will fall by the wayside before we,as fellow Hapkidoin,can see this for what it is?

I look forward to meeting and training with you next month in Merrillville!


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## SenseiBear (Sep 16, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> I know of at least 2 in Illinois, and 1 in Ft Worth Indiana.


 Was one of them in Downers Grove?  if not make it 3 in Ilinois - or at least it was there 8 years ago


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## phlaw (Sep 17, 2004)

There is 1 in Fargo

http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/

And I thought there was one in Victorville or Hesperia, CA when I lived there.


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## Drac (Sep 17, 2004)

I know of one in Lakewood Ohio that teaches traditional Hapkido and one in North Olmsted that teaches Combat Hapkido


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## Baytor (Sep 17, 2004)

For Minnesota, there's the Combat Hapkido school that I train at in the Minneapolis metro area.  There is also a traditional school up north more.  I'm not sure about any others.


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## Disco (Sep 17, 2004)

I estimated that there're 30 to 40 full time complete curriculum school Hapkido schools in the country.

This in an interesting perspective, which unto itself requires the question; Just what is a complete hapkido curriculum? The KHF lists over 70 different Kwans that they recognize. The Kido has their own number of Kwans that they recognize and so on. Just based on those numbers, what is taught varies from kwan to kwan. Some have lots of kicks, some have but a few and there are those that claim to use no kicks at all. Other techniques I'm sure are subject to interpertation also. So,....just what is a complete, or should we say a correct Hapkido curriculum?


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## glad2bhere (Sep 18, 2004)

Dear Disco: 

Using my curriculum as a measuring stick I can give some perspective to this. 

By chodan, in the Yon Mu Kwan, people know about 400 unique techniques including, blocks, kicks, strikes, chokes, locks, pins, projections, and throws. 

Now add to this that easily half of those techniques can be done both offensively (off the strike) and defensively. That brings you up to 600 hundred unique techniques. Also, about half of the original 400 techniques have both a yu sool and hapki-yu-sool execution, so add another 200. That gives us 800. 

Now add a weapon to each of the dan ranks and figure each weapon has about fifty unique techniques both offensive (attacking) and defensive (disarms). Thats another 300 techniques. So I would say that 1100 unique techniques is about right for a standard curriculum.  To reach chodan just in the yu sool part of the curriculum takes five years, then 3 years for the next, 4 years for the next, five years for the next and so on. And I have not even spoken to nutcases like me who get caught up in a particular aspect of training like preasure point work, dan bong, cane or sword work simply because they find a special place in their heart for it. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## phlaw (Sep 18, 2004)

http://www.littlefallstkd.com


My friend also teaches Combat Hapkido at his TKD school.


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## Kodanjaclay (Sep 19, 2004)

Brian,

Let me interject here...

Combat Hapkido is NOT Hapkido. In fact, if you ask me, it should not bear the name Hapkido. The examples that I have seen on JP's tapes leave a whole lot to be desired.

Perhaps others who have seen him in action can say something to that?


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## Hollywood1340 (Sep 19, 2004)

I've felt him in action, I beg to differ :asian:


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## Kodanjaclay (Sep 19, 2004)

ever been on the mat with a classically trained instructor? I have never been on the mat with him, but I have his student's and was less than impressed. You need to experience some good Hapkido. i like playing with Jin Jun Kwan guys personally...  good, hard training.


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## Hollywood1340 (Sep 19, 2004)

Thank you, but I have. My instructor was classically trained for 15 years. I enjoy the hard training I get, and am looking forward to more. Blanket statements about people you havn't meet show elitism and ignorance. You don't have to like it, but remember that there are execptions to the rule.


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## Kodanjaclay (Sep 19, 2004)

Well James, since you have chosen to infer that I am ignorant, let me explain a couple of things... I have been an instructor since 1988. I have somewhere between 25 and 30 years of experience in mudo. 

While I have not been on the mat with him, I have seen his rendition of technique on film. To be quite honest, it was a color belt level tape... and the performance would have caused a failure had I been the judge. That would have meant remedial training.

Now that is not based on heresay, but is my opinion based on what I have witnessed. Now when you factor that in with the poor performance I have witnessed by people that have been trained by the ICHF, that adds up. Now I'm not saying that everyone is poor, but what I have seen is poor.

Before inferring someone is ignorant, you might want to find out more about them. I have taught at the Richmond, VA police academy, and have been an expert witness for the prosecution in a case in the Richmond General District Court where I was to testify about the amount of force, or rather lack thereof, that a martial artist should be able to use in a confrontation.

As far as elitist, I have said nothing elitist. Being elitist would have been saying that our group is better than your group, which is not what I said. Incidentally, my opinion is shared by quite a few Hapkido Kwanjangs.


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## Disco (Sep 19, 2004)

My instructor was classically trained for 15 years.

Hollywood, if you don't mind me asking, if you were already training with a Hapkido instructor, what brought you to ICHF?


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## Hollywood1340 (Sep 19, 2004)

First to Mr. Kodanjaclay,
 It was not my intention sir to infer you, however I can see how that inference could be made, for that I apologize. I've found in my dealings on this message board and in the real world, although intent may be good, how it comes off in print can be something very different.

Disco,
 I've trained CHKD from the beginning. From what I've gathered, and I by no means speak for him, my instructor found something that worked better for him personaly. And that was the ICHF. 

I think in the dealings with the ICHF, I've found that very few people IMO realize what it is for, and what it offers. I know that my martial education has indeed been intense, and complete. I've seen "Traditional" HKD schools with a much smaller grasp on what HKD has to offer then I do. The reason being it's not the "style" although that can have a huge impact, it's the teacher and what they decide to teach.


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## Disco (Sep 19, 2004)

Hollywood, thanks for the reply. I realize that you would be talking for someone else (your instructor), but has he said or have you heard some of the "found something that worked better for him personaly" aspects of combat hapkido. Just curious as to what he found after all those years of "classical training".


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## Hollywood1340 (Sep 19, 2004)

One thing I really hate doing is spouting rhetoric. But at the ICHF website, it has a list of some of the things CHKD is and why it's done the way it's done. Many of those would cover it. In addition the ICHF as a federation fits with the way we belive our head organization should be run.


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## Kodanjaclay (Sep 19, 2004)

Apology accepted. Like Disco, I must wonder why someone would go to CHKD if they have had years of traditional HKD. I suppose I can see if for political reasons. Meaning that if for some reason your instructor had been separated from his support structure, he may feel a need for membership somewhere. I cannot see going from traditional Hapkido to CHKD. CHKD is more along the lines of straight hoshinsul as opposed to Hapkido.


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## Hollywood1340 (Sep 19, 2004)

Kodanjaclay said:
			
		

> CHKD is more along the lines of straight hoshinsul as opposed to Hapkido.


 So more of a part then a whole? *thinks* Hmm, I've never thought of it like that before. That's rather enlighting. I must think on that


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## phlaw (Sep 20, 2004)

http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/

Does anyone know anything about this instructor in Fargo?

I have heard alot of good stuff locally about him.

I have personall not checked him out yet./


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## Disco (Sep 20, 2004)

From the information listed on the web site, they are affiliated with Master J.R. West of Jackson Mississippi. Always hear nothing but "Good" things about him and the organization. If your thinking about taking instruction, you'd be in good hands. :asian:


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## Kodanjaclay (Sep 20, 2004)

You are refering to Master Jere Hilland. I have had nothing but good things said about him. In fact, he was a voice of support when I was down and out. Hilland Kwanjangnim did not know me, but was willing to be a support anyhow, and made the offer that I could train with him whenever I was in town.

In short, I strongly endorse him and would encourage you to go to his school. The group he is affiliated with is top rate. I say go for it.


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## whalen (Sep 20, 2004)

phlaw said:
			
		

> http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/
> 
> Does anyone know anything about this instructor in Fargo?
> 
> ...



Jere is a top notch Hapkidoin i have been on the mat with him several times .

You cannot go wrong with him

Hal Whalen


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## kwanjang (Sep 20, 2004)

Jere KJN is a good practitioner, and a nice human being.  Been on the mat with him as a fellow Instructor at JR West's seminars a number of times.  Can't go wrong with Jere and/or USKMAF.


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## Disco (Sep 21, 2004)

By chodan, in the Yon Mu Kwan, people know about 400 unique techniques.

Bruce, first let me say, glad you enjoyed your trip to Korea. Now if I may, I'm not actually concerned with numbers of techniques, more with what techniques actually constitute a true Hapkido cirriculum. As was stipulated prior, there are many kwans and they all teach differently. Is there a basic core curriculum floating around in the Hapkido world, that is accepted by everyone? If I came to you, looking to join your group and you naturally would want to test me, lets say for 1st Dan and it's a given that I don't know the Yon Mu Kwan curriculum, what would you want to see? 

This question is not only for Bruce, but for anyone else that would like to offer their viewpoint(s).


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## glad2bhere (Sep 21, 2004)

Gotcha!!  

Okay, I think I know where you are going now. In that case, what I would do is take a look at GM Kwang Sik Myungs' book on the WHF hyungs. The reason I mention this book in particular is that it starts of with the WHF/YMK kebonsu, or fundamental techniques. Just about every style of Hapkido comes back to these basic techniques. There are ten of them and some styles may have 12 or 15, but the rest of their curriculum are usualy permutations of these techniques.  Think of it a little like the curriculums of Aikido in which various styles have different types of executions and focus but the material all comes back to the same handful of techniques. Even in the shift from the yu sool level of Hapkido to the hapkiyusool level of execution the techniques are essentially the same though the focus and execution have been modified. For what its worth....

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## American HKD (Sep 21, 2004)

Bruce,

How was Korea and can you give some details about training there?


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## glad2bhere (Sep 21, 2004)

Dear Stuart: 

Actually I am going to do better than that. I am putting together an article on the experience which I hope TKD TIMES will pick up. If not I will probably publish it on one of these websites. The goal is to get people to understand how easy it is to get over to Korea and experience things firsthand rather than continue to simply take the report of someone else. I wouldn't trade the experience I have for the last 12 days for anything. I'm just sorry that it took so long for me to make the trip. I would encourage a lot of the youngsters reading this NOT to make the same mistake as did I. Take yer butt in both hands and take the plunge. Its not at all as difficult as people might think. FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Master Todd Miller (Sep 22, 2004)

Bruce is right.  It is not as difficult as one might think to go to Korea for training, sight seeing and just experiencing the Korean culture!

Just do some research ask people that have been for any thoughts or advice they might have and most important find the right people to visit.  I am a member of the Jungki Kwan in Taegu and they treat me and my students that have traveled to Korea with me as family.  Gennerally speaking the Korean people are very family focused and for the most part are very kind and warm.

Take care :asian:


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## greendragon (Sep 23, 2004)

I have talked to and seen Jere do Hapkido in person and he is a top notch Hapkido player.  If I were in North Dakota and had a chance to train with him I would go for it, he's a good guy and down to earth AND knows his stuff.
                                                                    Michael Tomlinson
                                                               5th Dan Sin Moo Hapkido


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## alexasha (Aug 4, 2007)

Baytor said:


> For Minnesota, there's the Combat Hapkido school that I train at in the Minneapolis metro area.  There is also a traditional school up north more.  I'm not sure about any others.


Can you give me coordinates for this school or any hapkido school in Minneapolis area?


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## Sambone (Aug 6, 2007)

Hey all,

Just wanted to say that I attend school here in Wyoming, since this is a thread about where different schools are located.  I attend Kyuki-do mainly, but my instructor offers a Hapkido class twice a week as well.  It seems you all are very passionate for Hapkido.  I must say that I wasn't at first.  But after two years of practice now, I love it.  I finally found out what all the craze is about.  Anyway, just wanted to say hi.


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## Hapki80 (Sep 17, 2007)

I know there is only one hapkido school in IL that is recognized by the KHF and it's in Vernon Hills, IL


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## phatbway (Jun 30, 2008)

@ my TKD dojan, you start learning HKD when you attain Light Green belt.


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## zDom (Jul 1, 2008)

phatbway said:


> @ my TKD dojan, you start learning HKD when you attain Light Green belt.



You start learning HAPKIDO or hapkido techniques?

There IS a big, BIG difference.


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## matt.m (Jul 2, 2008)

hapkido is its own separate art.  Just as much as tkd and judo are their ouwn.

Tae Kwon Do has 1 and 3 step sparring and so does hapkido.  Tae Kwon Do has self-defense......but they are not hapkido techniques.

Like zDom would agree with, in Moo Sul Kwan where I instruct Judo and study Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do.  All of our schools teach Tae Kwon Do, 4 schools teach hapkido, and only 2 schools teach judo.  I just happen to be the highest ranking active judo instructor.


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## hapkidonet (Jul 22, 2008)

Three "pure" Hapkido schools in San Francisco, and I estimate another 6 in the greater Bay Area. So 9 altogether, and I know for a fact that there are at least a dozen in Los Angeles, which makes me think that the estimate of 30 to 40 in the nation is very low.

True, it's not what most martial arts students are looking for. It's simply too hard, too much work, too much pain. But hey, that's ok. I get more face time with the instructors, and I'm less likely to confront someone who knows my techniques.


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## zDom (Jul 23, 2008)

hapkidonet said:


> True, it's not what most martial arts students are looking for. It's simply too hard, too much work, too much pain.



Sounds like you found a great HKD school


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## matt.m (Jul 25, 2008)

Gosh,

I gotta go with my friend z on this.  If it hurts it's hapkido.  If it doesn't then it isn't.

Hapkido as my father, zDom's teacher, once told me the following:"Hapkido was meant to mangle and maim quickly so you could just walk away."

While in the Marine Corps I used our 1st 25 son mok soo and eui bok soo to save my life I have no idea how many times.

If you want theory, research, and philosophy then that comes.  However, you won't start to hit these realizations until upper belt so just rep after rep after rep, called sweat equity is the key.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Oct 14, 2008)

zDom said:


> You start learning HAPKIDO or hapkido techniques?
> 
> There IS a big, BIG difference.


Very big.  Our school has hapkido and taekwondo with hapkido-ish techniques mixed in.  I do both and the classes are very, very different animals.  Love them both, and as I have advanced in hapkido (all the way to yellow belt, wooohoooo!!) I have found that I enjoy it more and more, for both some of the same reasons that I enjoy taekwondo and for some different reasons as well.

Daniel


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## Hapkiyoosool (Jan 11, 2009)

As far I know we have only 2 open(to the public) in the USA schools and multiple people teaching on military bases throughout the world. We have many in Korea. It would be safe to say that 99.9% our our instructors were active duty military or still are. 

It is true though, there are not very many pure Hapkido schools out there.


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