# Martial Arts and Entertainers



## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Many great entertainment legends have studied MA.  Elvis, Kareem, Glenn Danzig, Def Leppard...etc.  I just got off the phone doing an interview with death metal legend, Chris Barnes.  Barnes is one of the oldest, most respected artists in the biz.  You can see him on Ace Ventura.  Anyhow, he is very in tune with the universe, with the chi, the life force.  He has studied under one of Dan Inosanto's students in JKD.  He knows about Sanchin Ryu.  In fact, he had to recently exercise Sanchin breathing (whatever he terms it, I call it that based on my own experiences), to stop a possible fight. 

He's a very intelligent guy who totally understands dualism, the Yin Yang.  Very, very, very interesting man.  That interview will be up on metalunderground.com.


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## Headhunter (Feb 2, 2017)

I wouldn't call Elvis a martial artist at all. Look at the guy training on YouTube. My dog moves better than him. He was given his black belt.

A lot of these famous people train it simply for a movie or a little boost in their profile or so they can say they do it. Most don't take it seriously


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Is there a single way or reason to train?


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

good article, pretty funny, but a lot of the masters maintained he was good.  Yes, he proably should't have gotten a 7th dan, but it was his lucky number and his master got to be promoted to 8th.  Was Elvis Actually Any Good at Karate?


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## Transk53 (Feb 2, 2017)

Leppard. Many happy memories. Sorry, gone OFT already lol.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)




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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Leppard. Many happy memories. Sorry, gone OFT already lol.



Def leppard whipped Danzig, who was supposed to be a tough dude who learns JKD.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


>



He looks ok to me.  One thing about running a dojo and a style is you need personalities.  You need people who will bring the masses to you.  Elvis was that, and he also gave his master a Cadillac.  lol


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## Transk53 (Feb 2, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Def leppard whipped Danzig, who was supposed to be a tough dude who learns JKD.



Well, I'll look that up. At the I was just in awe of how Rick Allen had to endure and overcome his loss of his left arm. It was said at the time I believe, that he bacame a better drummer.


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## Headhunter (Feb 2, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> He looks ok to me.  One thing about running a dojo and a style is you need personalities.  You need people who will bring the masses to you.  Elvis was that, and he also gave his master a Cadillac.  lol


You serious? He looked like garbage


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 2, 2017)

The Osman family trained with Chuck Norris and Bob barker.   Ed O'Neil is a bjj black belt. Willy Nelson just got his 5th dan.  Blanket statements about being serious?  There just people like everyone else.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Well, I'll look that up. At the I was just in awe of how Rick Allen had to endure and overcome his loss of his left arm. It was said at the time I believe, that he bacame a better drummer.



Here is a good article on Phil Collin from the CNN of metal (I have a few articles on this site).  I've also read an article with him in Black Belt Magazine.  Dude has slick karate and Tai Know Do skills.  DEF LEPPARD's PHIL COLLEN Joins The Fight Against Childhood Obesity


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> The Osman family trained with Chuck Norris and Bob barker.   Ed O'Neil is a bjj black belt. Willy Nelson just got his 5th dan.  Blanket statements about being serious?  There just people like everyone else.



Interesting, thank you for sharing.  I didn't know Willie received his Go Dan.  Willie is the man!  I will smoke with him before he passes!

Ed O'Neil, as in, Al Bundy?


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> You serious? He looked like garbage



Again, it's not what I think, it's what those who worked out with him thought.  Yeah, I think he looks good.  He got his black belt from Ed Parker.  Nothing too shabby about that.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

I posted my interview with Barnes on soundcloud. If you would like to hear it now, go here Chris Barnes of Six Feet Under


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 2, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Interesting, thank you for sharing.  I didn't know Willie received his Go Dan.  Willie is the man!  I will smoke with him before he passes!
> 
> Ed O'Neil, as in, Al Bundy?


Yes AL bundy.
He's friends with the Gracie family.


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## JR 137 (Feb 2, 2017)

Being a metal guy, I'm surprised you didn't mention Tom Araya.  2nd dan in Shorin Ryu Matsumura Karate.  His wife and kids train too.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 2, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Being a metal guy, I'm surprised you didn't mention Tom Araya.  2nd dan in Shorin Ryu Matsumura Karate.  His wife and kids train too.



I did not know that.  Thank you.  I will bring it up to Tom when I interview him some day in the future (Slayyyyyyyyer)


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## Tames D (Feb 3, 2017)

Dave Mustaine has black belts in TKD and Karate. He trained under Benny the Jet in Ukidokan.


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## Headhunter (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Again, it's not what I think, it's what those who worked out with him thought.  Yeah, I think he looks good.  He got his black belt from Ed Parker.  Nothing too shabby about that.


Yeah his friends who worship the air he breathes and yeah ed Parker worked for him he was his bodyguard so of course he'll pass him and of course Elvis gave him a car . Just don't believe everything you read. He was a 7th or 8th dan right? Well to get an 8th dan in kenpo you have to wait 8 years /after/ getting your 7th so that's not including all the other years so threes no way he earned it legitimately


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## Tames D (Feb 3, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Yeah his friends who worship the air he breathes and yeah ed Parker worked for him he was his bodyguard so of course he'll pass him and of course Elvis gave him a car . Just don't believe everything you read. He was a 7th or 8th dan right? Well to get an 8th dan in kenpo you have to wait 8 years /after/ getting your 7th so that's not including all the other years so threes no way he earned it legitimately


What's that say of Ed Parker?


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## Headhunter (Feb 3, 2017)

Tames D said:


> What's that say of Ed Parker?


 he'd never talk about him as he was a famous student and he even wrote a book about Elvis so he made a lot of money from him and hey I'm not one of those who idolises him. He was a great martial artist but doesn't mean he's a god to me like some kenpo guys


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## Darrencowan (Feb 3, 2017)

Hey bro, I think you're putting everything into files of how long it takes to get something.  It's not about averages, it's about being a bad *** and working out all the time.  If you're studying under a grand master every day, you get good fast.  The karate kid is no ********, if you were worked with a grand master every day, it wouldn't take you very long to get a black belt.  Elvis learned from great masters, he was a rock star in everything he ever did, and if you say one more bad thing about the king of rock, I'm going to throw some soul fu on your punk askjfleiur.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 3, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> he'd never talk about him as he was a famous student and he even wrote a book about Elvis so he made a lot of money from him and hey I'm not one of those who idolises him. He was a great martial artist but doesn't mean he's a god to me like some kenpo guys



Right man, you got your people you look up to, you respect Elvis, but he's no Jeff Speakman.


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## Headhunter (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Hey bro, I think you're putting everything into files of how long it takes to get something.  It's not about averages, it's about being a bad *** and working out all the time.  If you're studying under a grand master every day, you get good fast.  The karate kid is no ********, if you were worked with a grand master every day, it wouldn't take you very long to get a black belt.  Elvis learned from great masters, he was a rock star in everything he ever did, and if you say one more bad thing about the king of rock, I'm going to throw some soul fu on your punk askjfleiur.


Elvis was absolutely not a bad *** he didn't train hard every day because he had a busy career. The guy was /not/ a good martial artist


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## Darrencowan (Feb 3, 2017)

Body guards, lol....You know who was a bad *** body guard, the Iron Sheik.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 3, 2017)

"Elvis gave him a car."

And Elvis was giving him what he could.  Is being wealthy a terrible thing, especially if you greatly contribute to an organization?  Elvis was a great thinker, he was an amorphis soul who never stopped to think "no, I don't have time to do that?"  When he saw something he wanted to do, he emerged himself in it. If you trained me and presented me with a belt, I could get you concert tickets, free merch, publicity, wall art and good conversation.  You use your environment, you understand it, but you aren't defined by a role.  Evlis wasn't defined by any single role, he did what he wanted and was a rock star in every field he was in.  

On a less serious not, you ever see the movie "Bubba Hotep?"


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## Tez3 (Feb 3, 2017)

So, who's this Elvis guy?


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## Paul_D (Feb 3, 2017)

How can you give a question a rating of "disagree"? You can disagree with an answer, but how do you disagree with a question?


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Hey bro, I think you're putting everything into files of how long it takes to get something.  It's not about averages, it's about being a bad *** and working out all the time.  If you're studying under a grand master every day, you get good fast.  The karate kid is no ********, if you were worked with a grand master every day, it wouldn't take you very long to get a black belt.  Elvis learned from great masters, he was a rock star in everything he ever did, and if you say one more bad thing about the king of rock, I'm going to throw some soul fu on your punk askjfleiur.


Pretty freakin' unlikely, actually. Someone might be able to put in the extra effort and get to a level of competency quicker, but, yeah, the Karate Kid is ********. And high dan rankings are simply not legitimately achievable in that timeframe in any style or art I'm aware of.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 3, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> How can you give a question a rating of "disagree"? You can disagree with an answer, but how do you disagree with a question?


Wait. I just agreed with a question about disagreeing with a question. Damnit.


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## Headhunter (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> "Elvis gave him a car."
> 
> And Elvis was giving him what he could.  Is being wealthy a terrible thing, especially if you greatly contribute to an organization?  Elvis was a great thinker, he was an amorphis soul who never stopped to think "no, I don't have time to do that?"  When he saw something he wanted to do, he emerged himself in it. If you trained me and presented me with a belt, I could get you concert tickets, free merch, publicity, wall art and good conversation.  You use your environment, you understand it, but you aren't defined by a role.  Evlis wasn't defined by any single role, he did what he wanted and was a rock star in every field he was in.
> 
> On a less serious not, you ever see the movie "Bubba Hotep?"


Don't know why you're seemed set on the fact that's legit. I think everyone knows Elvis was pretty awful. Parker was great and trained some great guys but Elvis is not one of them. He was a publicity stunt for Parker to get some business and recognition for his kenpo nothing more. Do you really think Elvis is a guy who worked out and trained in all his free time. The man was a drug addict and seriously overweight at the end of his life he didn't have the dedication to train hard. He was a good singer and musician that's it. Personally from what I've seen of his martial art I wouldn't give him a yellow belt.


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## wingchun100 (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Interesting, thank you for sharing.  I didn't know Willie received his Go Dan.  Willie is the man!  I will smoke with him before he passes!
> 
> Ed O'Neil, as in, Al Bundy?


 
Yes, Al Bundy. He was also interviewed on a special where he said Bruce Lee could not handle an uppercut. LOL


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## wingchun100 (Feb 3, 2017)

Robert Downey Jr. studies Wing Chun.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 3, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> How can you give a question a rating of "disagree"? You can disagree with an answer, but how do you disagree with a question?



"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"


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## Paul_D (Feb 3, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"


Not yet, she's got five more mintutes then we swap places.


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## Tez3 (Feb 3, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Not yet, she's got five more mintutes then we swap places.



Ah she still thinks she's an egg then....


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## Headhunter (Feb 3, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"


I have a feeling I'm missing part of a joke between you guys because out of context that surprised me reading that lol


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## kuniggety (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Ed O'Neil, as in, Al Bundy?



Others have already said yes but he has been a practitioner for over 20 years and got his black belt around his 12 or 13 year mark from Rorion Gracie. The man knows his stuff.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 3, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> I have a feeling I'm missing part of a joke between you guys because out of context that surprised me reading that lol



He said 'how can you disagree with a question' so I provided an example of a question which has no acceptable answer. If yes, you're an ***, if no, you're also an ***.


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## Paul_D (Feb 3, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> He said 'how can you disagree with a question' so I provided an example of a question which has no acceptable answer. If yes, you're an ***, if no, you're also an ***.


It may have no acceptable answer, but you still can't disagree with a request for information.


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## Transk53 (Feb 3, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> It may have no acceptable answer, but you still can't disagree with a request for information.



See what you are saying. Dirty Dog is a grouchy old one. Probably been to the vet recently.


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## Tez3 (Feb 3, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> I have a feeling I'm missing part of a joke between you guys because out of context that surprised me reading that lol



Apologies as you probably know this already but for those that don't Loaded question - Wikipedia

of course after Fifty Shades perhaps the answer might be surprising these days.


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## drop bear (Feb 3, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Body guards, lol....You know who was a bad *** body guard, the Iron Sheik.



Dolf lungren was grace jones bodyguard. And trying to get a google image of that. Gave me this. Which I dont know how to explain.


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## drop bear (Feb 3, 2017)

Anyway. Some fun ones.

Tony danza.





steve irwin was a mad keen MMAer.





Training with Kyle noke there.

Kevin james of course with the MMA.


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## Granger (Feb 3, 2017)

Guy Ritchie is a black belt in BJJ.  I remember watching him talk about combining his martial arts style with Robert Downy Jr.'s martial arts style, wing chun, for his Sherlock Holmes movies.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 4, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Tony danza.


Didn't Elton John write a song about him? 'Hold me closer Tony Danza'.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 4, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


>


22:23 - Kata is a form of dance?


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 4, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> but how do you disagree with a question?


Don't lawyers do that all the time?


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## Paul_D (Feb 4, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Don't lawyers do that all the time?


Don't know, never been to court.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 4, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Don't know, never been to court.


Ever watched TV?


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## Paul_D (Feb 4, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Ever watched TV?


Court cases aren't televised in the UK.


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## JR 137 (Feb 4, 2017)

Dolph was the man.  European Kyokushin champion and Sweden's team captain in the '79 World Open Full Contact Karate Championship.  And he was a green belt.

Edit: so people don't get the wrong idea, everyone else were black belts.

Edit 2: Dolph still is the man.  A group of guys broke into his house a few years ago in a robbery attempt.  They tied up his wife and daughters.  When they saw a family picture and realized who's house they were in, they dropped everything and took off.


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## Blindside (Feb 4, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> . Just don't believe everything you read. He was a 7th or 8th dan right? Well to get an 8th dan in kenpo you have to wait 8 years /after/ getting your 7th so that's not including all the other years so threes no way he earned it



Do you think Ed Parker followed those guidelines with his own promotions??


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## Transk53 (Feb 4, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Dolf lungren was grace jones bodyguard. And trying to get a google image of that. Gave me this. Which I dont know how to explain.



Has quite a fearsome temper apparently. I have never that image before either, must have been a photo shoot for something.


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## Transk53 (Feb 4, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Court cases aren't televised in the UK.



How do you explain Judge Rinder


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## Paul_D (Feb 4, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> How do you explain Judge Rinder


I don't think there is anyway to explain him


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## Darrencowan (Feb 4, 2017)

kuniggety said:


> Others have already said yes but he has been a practitioner for over 20 years and got his black belt around his 12 or 13 year mark from Rorion Gracie. The man knows his stuff.



I wonder if Ed is a fan of "Married with Hormones," great paraody of Married with Children. I can't say I


drop bear said:


> Dolf lungren was grace jones bodyguard. And trying to get a google image of that. Gave me this. Which I dont know how to explain.





RTKDCMB said:


> Didn't Elton John write a song about him? 'Hold me closer Tony Danza'.




No, I believe you have that mistaken for The Tony Danza Tap Dance Extravaganza.


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## Tames D (Feb 4, 2017)

Blindside said:


> Do you think Ed Parker followed those guidelines with his own promotions??


It makes me question every high rank Parker awarded.


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## KangTsai (Feb 5, 2017)

All I can think of reading this thread is Joe Rogan on his podcast, lecturing his friend about how badly a chimpanzee will rip you apart.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 5, 2017)

Tames D said:


> It makes me question every high rank Parker awarded.



are you trying to get your *** kicked?


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## Darrencowan (Feb 5, 2017)

if not physically, but verbally, mentally, spiritually--the 3-way continuum.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 5, 2017)

I think you lack respect because you're following by example, you're following your leaders.  They act like little kids, point fingers, cast blame, call each other names, make stupid faces, descredit each other (I bet you loved learning that principal, right).  Maybe you are so insignificant you just waaaaant to be wubbed.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 5, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> 22:23 - Kata is a form of dance?



kata is a form of dance, that's why Elvis was the master kata practitioner.  That boy could dance!


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> How do you explain Judge Rinder



It's not a court nor is he a judge lol. He is a very intelligent highly qualified QC who has prosecuted some of the nastiest people on the planet though so his programme is a bit of fun for him.


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## Transk53 (Feb 5, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> It's not a court nor is he a judge lol. He is a very intelligent highly qualified QC who has prosecuted some of the nastiest people on the planet though so his programme is a bit of fun for him.



Yes I know lol. Never watched it.


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## Headhunter (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> kata is a form of dance, that's why Elvis was the master kata practitioner.  That boy could dance!


Yeah well his kata looks like garbage in any video so obviously not that good


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2017)

Transk53 said:


> Yes I know lol. Never watched it.



I watch it lol, I have friends who know him and his family ( the Jewish community in the UK is like that) and he's a good guy. I enjoy his sarcasm, so similar to mine lol.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> I think you lack respect because you're following by example, you're following your leaders.  They act like little kids, point fingers, cast blame, call each other names, make stupid faces, descredit each other (I bet you loved learning that principal, right).  Maybe you are so insignificant you just waaaaant to be wubbed.


Maybe calm down just a bit, and stop throwing around accusations about an instructor you apparently know nothing of?


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## Juany118 (Feb 5, 2017)

Surprising ones?

Forrest Whitaker has a black belt in Kenpo and studies Inosanto Kali

While not surprising that Lundgren knows Martial arts he is 3rd Dan in Kyokushin Karate and was actually a British Open champ back in the 80s.  In 79 at the World Open Karate Tournament in Japan he actually made it to the "final" via KO's and lost via a controversial decision.  And yes he had to borrow a brown belt to compete because he was technically a green belt.

John Cusack is 6th Dan under Benny the Jet.


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## Juany118 (Feb 5, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Robert Downey Jr. studies Wing Chun.


Christian Bale studies under the same Sifu.


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## Juany118 (Feb 5, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Dolph was the man.  European Kyokushin champion and Sweden's team captain in the '79 World Open Full Contact Karate Championship.  And he was a green belt.
> 
> Edit: so people don't get the wrong idea, everyone else were black belts.
> 
> Edit 2: Dolph still is the man.  A group of guys broke into his house a few years ago in a robbery attempt.  They tied up his wife and daughters.  When they saw a family picture and realized who's house they were in, they dropped everything and took off.







Just demonstration but he can still break stuff.


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## Transk53 (Feb 5, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> Surprising ones?
> 
> Forrest Whitaker has a black belt in Kenpo and studies Inosanto Kali
> 
> ...



Wow, that is bit surprising, and what a teacher to have.


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## JP3 (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Is there a single way or reason to train?



I can think of one.  With commitment.


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## frank raud (Feb 5, 2017)

Tames D said:


> It makes me question every high rank Parker awarded.


To be fair, Elvis' 7th and 8th dan ranks were awarded to him by Kang Rhee, in Pasaryu karate.


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## Paul_D (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> kata is a form of dance


Only if you don't understand kata.


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## Tames D (Feb 5, 2017)

frank raud said:


> To be fair, Elvis' 7th and 8th dan ranks were awarded to him by Kang Rhee, in Pasaryu karate.


I guess this could be fake, but I never heard it disputed.


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## Tames D (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> are you trying to get your *** kicked?


Excuse me? And who's going to do this?


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## Headhunter (Feb 5, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> I think you lack respect because you're following by example, you're following your leaders.  They act like little kids, point fingers, cast blame, call each other names, make stupid faces, descredit each other (I bet you loved learning that principal, right).  Maybe you are so insignificant you just waaaaant to be wubbed.



Umm this is an discussion board if you can't take someone's opinion without resulting to insults this place isn't for you. I don't agree with what he said but he's still allowed to say it. I don't know why you're getting so defensive you don't even do kenpo.

You said you don't like fights but you just threatened to beat someone up over their opinion...classy


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## Headhunter (Feb 5, 2017)

Tames D said:


> Excuse me? And who's going to do this?


Maybe he thinks ed parkers is going to rise from the grave and seek you out. I mean if ed Parker was so tough he'd come out the grave and smash my face into my keybosgajkssjakhu


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## Headhunter (Feb 5, 2017)

Tames D said:


> I guess this could be fake, but I never heard it disputed.
> View attachment 20369View attachment 20370


To be honest I always saw it as more of an honorary grade the same way Stallone is in the boxing hall of fame or how chuck Norris is a honorary Texas ranger because of his tv show


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## Headhunter (Feb 5, 2017)

Tames D said:


> I guess this could be fake, but I never heard it disputed.
> View attachment 20369View attachment 20370


By the way out of interest do you know who the other names on the certificate are who signed it


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## frank raud (Feb 5, 2017)

http://www.elvispresleymusic.com.au.../elvis-sept-9-1974-karate-7th-certificate.jpg

Here is his 8th dan dated 1 month after his 7th dan in kenpo.


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## Transk53 (Feb 5, 2017)

frank raud said:


> http://www.elvispresleymusic.com.au.../elvis-sept-9-1974-karate-7th-certificate.jpg
> 
> Here is his 8th dan dated 1 month after his 7th dan in kenpo.



So this is purely honorary. Like a celeb being awarded a honorary  docturate?


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## KenpoDave (Feb 5, 2017)

Y'all are arguing about the wrong rank. Elvis was awarded a 9th under Parker.


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## JR 137 (Feb 5, 2017)

Just a curiosity question...

Does Elvis having an inflated rank discredit anyone else's rank?

Does Elvis having a legitimate rank boost anyone else's?

I just realized something while typing this...

As I stated earlier (as did Juanny), Dolph Lundgren was a green belt while he was beating black belts in Kyokushin championships.  As luck would have it, I'm currently a green belt too.  That makes me suuuch a badass.  Don't mess with me; I'm the same rank Dolph was when he was beating down black belts.  I'm going to turn down all future promotions because that'll take away my mojo.


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## Transk53 (Feb 5, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Just a curiosity question...
> 
> Does Elvis having an inflated rank discredit anyone else's rank?
> 
> ...



Absolutely no idea why, but the post made think of this.


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## frank raud (Feb 5, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Just a curiosity question...
> 
> Does Elvis having an inflated rank discredit anyone else's rank?
> 
> ...


 When Bill Wallace was a competitive kickboxer, he always wore his black belt in the ring. The next PKA middleweight champion never did as he was only a blue belt in jiu jitsu. Managed to hold the belt for the next 15 years despite never having a black belt. It wasn't until 2008 that my instructor got his black belt(in jiu jitsu). Not everyone is Dolph Lundgren, or Jean-Yves Theriault. They both prove it is the man, not the belt to worry about.


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## JR 137 (Feb 5, 2017)

frank raud said:


> When Bill Wallace was a competitive kickboxer, he always wore his black belt in the ring. The next PKA middleweight champion never did as he was only a blue belt in jiu jitsu. Managed to hold the belt for the next 15 years despite never having a black belt. It wasn't until 2008 that my instructor got his black belt(in jiu jitsu). Not everyone is Dolph Lundgren, or Jean-Yves Theriault. They both prove it is the man, not the belt to worry about.



You know, you're really not helping my cause here. Lundgren was a green belt, and I'm a badass because I'm the same rank he was.

Let a guy dream, will you?


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## JR 137 (Feb 5, 2017)

Just because...


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## drop bear (Feb 5, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Just a curiosity question...
> 
> Does Elvis having an inflated rank discredit anyone else's rank?
> 
> ...



To answer your question. Yes pretty much. 

Although I would narrow that down to the instructor or the club.  Not the system.

So you have a belt the way that is awarded is pretty important.

If you got it from a belt mill instructor then that is relevant.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2017)

drop bear said:


> To answer your question. Yes pretty much.
> 
> Although I would narrow that down to the instructor or the club.  Not the system.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure one outlier (especially an outlier who is also a celebrity) upsets the whole legitimacy of a grading system, any more than one good martial artist can provide legitimacy to a grading system (or art, for that matter).


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## frank raud (Feb 5, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> You know, you're really not helping my cause here. Lundgren was a green belt, and I'm a badass because I'm the same rank he was.
> 
> Let a guy dream, will you?


Hey,hey man, I , I didn't mean anything by it, it was just a joke. Wasn't trying to offend a badass mother trucker like you.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I'm not sure one outlier (especially an outlier who is also a celebrity) upsets the whole legitimacy of a grading system, any more than one good martial artist can provide legitimacy to a grading system (or art, for that matter).



Ok.  What would be the minimum number of free belts before you would feel a bit ripped off actually having to earn yoirs.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 6, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> I'm going to turn down all future promotions because that'll take away my mojo.


You need your mojo in the dojo.


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## Darrencowan (Feb 6, 2017)

Keep talking **** head hunter


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## Darrencowan (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Ok.  What would be the minimum number of free belts before you would feel a bit ripped off actually having to earn yoirs.



Come in get it boy


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## Darrencowan (Feb 6, 2017)

Tames D said:


> Excuse me? And who's going to do this?



I'll do it you Do you want a master showdown?


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## Darrencowan (Feb 6, 2017)

You people in here talking like this are not martial artists.  You need to learn some respect.  Lend opinions without disrespect.  Tames D, you wouldn't make a wort on Parkers dead and bloated anus.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Come in get it boy



We don't really have much kempo in Australia. 

Personally i think it is because we have muay thai.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 6, 2017)

Tames D said:


> It makes me question every high rank Parker awarded.


You should question all nosebleed ranks, in Kenpo; however, most promotions of that caliber were due to a guy actually running several schools, with a black belt running those schools, and people need to be promoted to keep the whole affair afloat.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Keep talking **** head hunter





Darrencowan said:


> Come in get it boy





Darrencowan said:


> I'll do it you Do you want a master showdown?





Darrencowan said:


> You people in here talking like this are not martial artists. You need to learn some respect. Lend opinions without disrespect. Tames D, you wouldn't make a wort on Parkers dead and bloated anus.



Nobody here wants this thread to get locked on the account of rain. This is a forum not a contest:


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## Paul_D (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> You people in here talking like this are not martial artists.  You need to learn some respect.


Respect is earnt.


Darrencowan said:


> Tames D, you wouldn't make a wort on Parkers dead and bloated anus.


This isn't how you earn it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Ok.  What would be the minimum number of free belts before you would feel a bit ripped off actually having to earn yoirs.


It depends upon how "free" they are. And my being upset about it isn't the same as my belt being de-legitimized.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> I'll do it you Do you want a master showdown?


Seriously? Is this kind of childish nonsense really necessary?


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2017)

Folks, the staff is aware. Please allow us to deal with it. Don't allow yourself to become part of the problem.


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## Juany118 (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Ok.  What would be the minimum number of free belts before you would feel a bit ripped off actually having to earn yoirs.



Well I look at it this way, if I am taught well and can thus fight well it doesnt matter.  That other guy is actually hurt imo because he has a false impression of his ability.  If too many such belts are handed out my assumption would be I wouldn't be getting adequate training.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> It depends upon how "free" they are. And my being upset about it isn't the same as my belt being de-legitimized.



Well if your belt can be bought or handed off as a favor.  Then it has been de-legitimised.

You might be a worthy person and a great martial artist.  But your rank has been compromised.

And considering that rank may have been 10 years out of your life.  

That could be quite a concern.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

Juany118 said:


> Well I look at it this way, if I am taught well and can thus fight well it doesnt matter.  That other guy is actually hurt imo because he has a false impression of his ability.  If too many such belts are handed out my assumption would be I wouldn't be getting adequate training.



I think it cheapens the concept of earning a belt.


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## Headhunter (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> Keep talking **** head hunter


Think you need to look at yourself there the one who's been on this board for 2 minutes and has already challenged half of it to a fight


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## Headhunter (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> You people in here talking like this are not martial artists.  You need to learn some respect.  Lend opinions without disrespect.  Tames D, you wouldn't make a wort on Parkers dead and bloated anus.


Respect is one thing cult like worship is just creepy. Do I respect Parker as a martial artist? Of course he was great at what he did and was a great teacher and most of his students have become great teachers and martial artists. But he is human and is absolutely not perfect and honestly there's no doubt in any mind that Elvis rank was fake that's a fact deal with it for whatever reason he did that. Is it right no it's not does it take anything away from him absolutely not. 

You need to grow up and respect opinions you're an adult and you're talking like a 10 year old challenging people to fights that's a lot more not like a martial artist than having a opinion


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 6, 2017)

I figure celebrities probably train martial arts at about the same level as non-celebrities. A small percentage train, of those who train, most do so casually, a few train seriously, and even fewer reach a high-level of accomplishment.

The only thing that makes me roll my eyes is when martial arts instructors with celebrity students make a big deal out of it, as if it somehow validates their instructor credentials. Why would it matter to me if you have students who are actors or singers or politicians? Your martial arts instruction is not what made them famous and successful in their chosen fields. Furthermore, celebrities have no special expertise in discerning great martial arts instruction from crappy martial arts instruction.

Then again, I also don't care when a professional athlete tells me which shoe to wear or beverage to drink, so maybe I'm just out of touch with the zeitgeist.


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## Juany118 (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> I think it cheapens the concept of earning a belt.



Well one of the arts I take, my Kali, only has two belts.  Black sash (just what it sounds like) and red sash, which signifies a Guro/instructor.  Other than that you simply earn levels.  That lack of belts may color my opinion. /Shrug


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Well if your belt can be bought or handed off as a favor.  Then it has been de-legitimised.
> 
> You might be a worthy person and a great martial artist.  But your rank has been compromised.
> 
> ...


Not by one instance. And not by special situations.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I figure celebrities probably train martial arts at about the same level as non-celebrities. A small percentage train, of those who train, most do so casually, a few train seriously, and even fewer reach a high-level of accomplishment.
> 
> The only thing that makes me roll my eyes is when martial arts instructors with celebrity students make a big deal out of it, as if it somehow validates their instructor credentials. Why would it matter to me if you have students who are actors or singers or politicians? Your martial arts instruction is not what made them famous and successful in their chosen fields. Furthermore, celebrities have no special expertise in discerning great martial arts instruction from crappy martial arts instruction.
> 
> Then again, I also don't care when a professional athlete tells me which shoe to wear or beverage to drink, so maybe I'm just out of touch with the zeitgeist.


Agreed. At the same time, it's probably good marketing for an instructor, so I can't really blame them for using it to their advantage.


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## Tames D (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> I'll do it you Do you want a master showdown?


You do realize that you just challenged me don't you? I take threats and challenges very seriously. Even if it's from a punk.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2017)

speaking of Martial Arts and Entertainers, Gal Gadot was trained to serve as a combat trainer in the Israel Defense Forces, does that count.


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## Tames D (Feb 6, 2017)

Darrencowan said:


> You people in here talking like this are not martial artists.  You need to learn some respect.  Lend opinions without disrespect.  Tames D, you wouldn't make a wort on Parkers dead and bloated anus.


I'll pretend you didn't say this.
Do ye drinks a bit, do ye?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2017)

Not going to read this entire thread, not interested in the drama and school yard antics, so I apologize if any or all of these are repeats

Gal Gadot was trained to serve as a combat trainer in the Israel Defense Forces.

Ashton Kutcher BJJ Black belt

Wesley Snipes: 5th dan black belt in Shotokan karate and 2nd dan black belt in hapkido, also trained in capoeira under Mestre Jelon Vieira and in a number of other disciplines including kung fu at the USA Shaolin Temple and Brazilian jiu-jitsu and kickboxing.

Mark Dacascos is proficient in his father’s style of martial arts, Wun Hop Kuen Do, he has also studied muay thai with kru puk, capoeira with Mestre Amen Santo, and wushu with Coaches Eric and Debbie Chen.

Michael Jai White: 8 black belts in shotokan, taekwondo, kobudo, goju ryu, tang soo do, wushu and kyokushin, having been training in jiu-jitsu since the age of seven.

John Cusack level six black belt in Urquidez’s Ukidokan kickboxing system.


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## Tames D (Feb 6, 2017)

Charles Bronson had some martial arts training with Tak Kubota.


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## Tez3 (Feb 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Do I respect Parker as a martial artist?



Being honest I can't, I know next to nothing about him, nothing about his training or how he taught so to give him* automatic* respect because I've been told to goes against the grain. I do read the opinions of people I respect here, and if they say someone is good I have no doubt they are but to automatically give respect to people one doesn't know would be just silly


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## JR 137 (Feb 6, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I figure celebrities probably train martial arts at about the same level as non-celebrities. A small percentage train, of those who train, most do so casually, a few train seriously, and even fewer reach a high-level of accomplishment.
> 
> The only thing that makes me roll my eyes is when martial arts instructors with celebrity students make a big deal out of it, as if it somehow validates their instructor credentials. Why would it matter to me if you have students who are actors or singers or politicians? Your martial arts instruction is not what made them famous and successful in their chosen fields. Furthermore, celebrities have no special expertise in discerning great martial arts instruction from crappy martial arts instruction.
> 
> Then again, I also don't care when a professional athlete tells me which shoe to wear or beverage to drink, so maybe I'm just out of touch with the zeitgeist.



Don't you know that celebrities are so much smarter  and more discerning that the rest of us?  They tell us how to dress, what to eat, what to drink, etc.  They even give us political views of our own.  Look how many people are suffering because because celebrities told us how great Clinton is and how bad Trump is.  Look at how strong our college students are; because they didn't get their way, they need exemptions on exams, therapy dogs, water tables, and extra counselors brought in to deal with the stress of not getting their way.

Celebrities know all.  Just watch an award show or two*.

Why wouldn't I want to train under Ashton Kucher's teacher?  He could train under anyone.  You know how smart and discerning he and the rest of Hollywood is.

*I love award shows.  Give a bunch of overpaid and overinflated egos another reason to think what they do is so important and so crucial to our existence.  Give them an excuse to take themselves even more seriously than they already do.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Not by one instance. And not by special situations.



How many instances does it take? 

Elvis the most recognisable ed parker blackbelt.


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## JR 137 (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> How many instances does it take?
> 
> Elvis the most recognisable ed parker blackbelt.



I'm no Parker fanboy nor apologist, but I think you're getting a bit hung up on an exception rather than a rule here.


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## drop bear (Feb 6, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> I'm no Parker fanboy nor apologist, but I think you're getting a bit hung up on an exception rather than a rule here.



Well yeah.  Because a rule should kind of be for everyone.

Or the exception should have some sort of merit.

If elvis had no legs or something i could see an exception. If elvis bought the instructor a car.  That just mocks everyone else who had to work for that recognition.

Same with the ashton kucher bjj flow guys by the way.

*Rigan Machado Designs Jiu-Jitsu System without Sparring for Celebrities | Bjj Eastern Europe*


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2017)

drop bear said:


> How many instances does it take?
> 
> Elvis the most recognisable ed parker blackbelt.


Yes, and many people will immediately recognize him as a special case.

There's not a set number that will legitimize a rank. It depends how bad they are, how many are _*not *_special cases, how many were promoted, overall, etc.

My main point was that my disappointment doesn't legitimize the rank. Those are two different concepts. I might, in fact, be disappointed upon the first instance.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 6, 2017)

Consider you may never have heard of Ed Parker, if it weren't for Elvis.


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## Tames D (Feb 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> By the way out of interest do you know who the other names on the certificate are who signed it


The only signature I could make out is Dave Hebler. Dave was a student of Mr. Parker and became Elvis's friend and bodyguard. He was a member of the "Memphis Mafia", a term that referred to the bodyguards. Dave co wrote a book with Sonny West and Red West about Elvis's drug problem. He also has a video out about Elvis. If interested you can google Dave Hebler.


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## RTKDCMB (Feb 7, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Well if your belt can be bought or handed off as a favor. Then it has been de-legitimised.
> 
> You might be a worthy person and a great martial artist. But your rank has been compromised.
> 
> ...


Does someone receiving an honorary belt make the effort and hard work of earning a real belt magically disappear?


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 7, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Does someone receiving an honorary belt make the effort and hard work of earning a real belt magically disappear?



Might make a difference if Elvis' rank was labeled as honorary. I don't think it was.


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## Tez3 (Feb 7, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Consider you may never have heard of Ed Parker, if it weren't for Elvis.



Well, the only Parker I heard of in connection with Elvis was the manager person.


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## Tames D (Feb 7, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Consider you may never have heard of Ed Parker, if it weren't for Elvis.


Parker promoted the IKC's for years. I think anyone associated with martial arts would know who he is just based on that. The IKC was open to to all styles, not just Kenpo, so even non Kenpoists were familiar with his name, even without his association to Elvis.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 7, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Well, the only Parker I heard of in connection with Elvis was the manager person.


Col. Tom Parker was Ed Parker's uncle.


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## JR 137 (Feb 7, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Consider you may never have heard of Ed Parker, if it weren't for Elvis.



Didn't Bruce Lee do a famous demo or two at Parker's events?

I knew of Parker and his Kempo before I knew Elvis was his student.  Doesn't mean that I would've heard of him without Elvis, but it doesn't mean I would've heard of him because of Elvis either.

For the record, Elvis died a few months after I turned 3, so it's not like I knew martial arts during the pre-Elvis nor Elvis era.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 7, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Didn't Bruce Lee do a famous demo or two at Parker's events?
> 
> I knew of Parker and his Kempo before I knew Elvis was his student.  Doesn't mean that I would've heard of him without Elvis, but it doesn't mean I would've heard of him because of Elvis either.
> 
> For the record, Elvis died a few months after I turned 3, so it's not like I knew martial arts during the pre-Elvis nor Elvis era.


I was six or seven. I remember where I was standing when everybody started freaking out.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 7, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> I was six or seven. I remember where I was standing when everybody started freaking out.


I was seven. According to my father-in-law, you being about the same age as me is evidence you are getting old.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 7, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I was seven. According to my father-in-law, you being about the same age as me is evidence you are getting old.


Then you must understand that if you saw Starwars, everything you saw afterward was better, and you don't see what the big deal is, about Starwars.


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## Hyoho (Feb 8, 2017)

Anthony Bourdain

http://www.maxim.com/entertainment/anthony-bourdain-wins-jiu-jitsu-competition-2016-4


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## Tames D (Feb 8, 2017)

Has the OP left us?


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 8, 2017)

Tames D said:


> Has the OP left us?


Profile says last seen Monday at 3:17.

You'd think some people have a life besides posting on MartialTalk. How silly.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 8, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Being honest I can't, I know next to nothing about him, nothing about his training or how he taught so to give him* automatic* respect because I've been told to goes against the grain. I do read the opinions of people I respect here, and if they say someone is good I have no doubt they are but to automatically give respect to people one doesn't know would be just silly


You know him... as Mr. Chong. ...


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## Headhunter (Feb 8, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> You know him... as Mr. Chong. ...


Love he's wearing a jacket with his kenpo crest on lol. Tbh that fight scene wasn't great I doubt he was allowed to choreograph it, he looked quite bad there to be honest he looks much better in videos of him teaching much faster and sharper than this. Never got why he smashed the desk either


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## Headhunter (Feb 8, 2017)

Tames D said:


> Has the OP left us?


Think he's been suspended there's an error message when you click on his profile...can't say I'm sad to see him go


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 8, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Love he's wearing a jacket with his kenpo crest on lol. Tbh that fight scene wasn't great I doubt he was allowed to choreograph it, he looked quite bad there to be honest he looks much better in videos of him teaching much faster and sharper than this. Never got why he smashed the desk either


It was a goof, but I was never a fan of the Movie clips.


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## Headhunter (Feb 8, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> It was a goof, but I was never a fan of the Movie clips.


A goof? I mean the bit at the very end where he trashes the bosses desk and the guy rolls his eyes.

He probably got this because Blake Edwards was his student as well but they had their own fight choreographer so Parker couldn't do much with this. Shame because he did perfect weapon fights and those looked great


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 8, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Think he's been suspended there's an error message when you click on his profile...can't say I'm sad to see him go


Looks like you're right.


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## Headhunter (Feb 8, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Looks like you're right.


Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy


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## Tames D (Feb 8, 2017)

[QUOTE="Tony Dismukes, post: 1816873, member: 7524"

You'd think some people have a life besides posting on MartialTalk. How silly.[/QUOTE]
I realize that. How silly of me to think that he might have gotten banned...


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 9, 2017)

Tames D said:


> Has the OP left us?



Yes, he has.


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