# Rent raised 500%



## shesulsa

I just got word from the community center where I rent a room for my classes (they sold us out to Tae Kwon Do) that they are revisiting all contracted rentals and are increasing their room rents to market price - $60/hour.  I have been paying $11.25 per hour and charge $58 per student per month - there's no way I can stay alive with my current situation for very long and they won't put me as a regularly scheduled class in their catalog.

I'm in a position now where I'll have to combine my children and adults classes (I will definitely lose students) and/or charge more, or I'll have to find a new place to train and really, it's hard to find a good place for less than that for just rent alone - utilities, insurance and taxes not included.

Frustration abounds.  

I haven't made any calls yet  and I'm taking suggestions if you're willing to offer them. 

Respect!


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## terryl965

Shesulsa have you gone and talked to the management and explain your current stituation? If not this maybe the best time for it, also try to convince them about doing the right thing for you since you have been there for so long. I really doubt if any of that will work but atleast it is a chance. I hope and pray that things workout for you and your school.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Sorry to hear that Shesulsa.  It definitely is one of the major issues with running a training hall unless you buy of course.  Look around maybe buying is an option now that you have this many students.


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## tshadowchaser

To me that seems an indecent amount to raise ones rent. I agree trying talking to them But I also agree that it will do any good. There must be other places in town that would be less expensive to rent. Perhaps one of your students would know of a place


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## Carol

Not the most glamorous option...is it possible to rent a garage, or a storage space large enough to hold class?  The fellow that started CrossFit NH started up in a rented 1 car garage.


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## Grenadier

Talk to the management first. If you've been there for a while, and if they know that you've been doing good things for the community, they should be open to negotiations. It never hurts to try.

If they're unwilling to budge, then contact the various fitness centers in the area (Gold's Gym, et al).  Many of them have spacious rooms with mirrors, and you can usually come to some sort of reasonable agreement with them.  It may even give you an opportunity to find more students.


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## Stac3y

We're dealing with a similar situation in one of our classes right now (can't go into details.) I wish you luck getting it all sorted out.


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## JWLuiza

Is there any room to haggle? Can you model a break even point based on enrollment/room cost?

I know programs that rent space from othe schools when they don't have classes, but I imagine costs might be similar.


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## Bill Mattocks

I know a lot of dojos rent space in local churches.  Also, various Fraternal Halls (Moose, Eagles, VFW, American Legion, Knights of Columbus) around here always seem to have signs up announcing space for rent.  Just some thoughts.

Oh, and one more thing - our own dojo rents out space to a Yoga class on the one day a week we're not in it ourselves.  So perhaps another MA studio of some sort?


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## shesulsa

I'm getting on the horse today gathering information about commercial spaces around town to compile a comparative data presentation.  There is a brand new shopping center/strip mall right across the street with over 60% vacancy and last I looked into something like that, they wanted around $600 for about 500 square feet. I don't know what the current market rate is on commercial rentals but seriously, if I'm going to pay a grand a month on a rental, it damn sure won't be in a community center!

The reason I like being at the community center is the nature of the convenience for families. It also suits the nature of my program (family-oriented) and it's tucked away. I can do my own thing and not have a huge spotlight on my dojang. The situation purports availability to *everyone* and that's my focus, really.

But ... a grand a month? for the trouble I deal with there? NO.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll be calling on commercial space, a local dance company, a few fitness centers around town, the school district, churches, etcetera.

*snorts* I did all of this LAST year in search of a place, jeez!


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## Big Don

My aunt rents out commercial buildings, a big empty room with a roll up door, a small bathroom and a smallish office. Looking down the road, for myself, that is where I'll teach.


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## Kittan Bachika

shesulsa said:


> I just got word from the community center where I rent a room for my classes (they sold us out to Tae Kwon Do) that they are revisiting all contracted rentals and are increasing their room rents to market price - $60/hour. I have been paying $11.25 per hour and charge $58 per student per month - there's no way I can stay alive with my current situation for very long and they won't put me as a regularly scheduled class in their catalog.
> 
> I'm in a position now where I'll have to combine my children and adults classes (I will definitely lose students) and/or charge more, or I'll have to find a new place to train and really, it's hard to find a good place for less than that for just rent alone - utilities, insurance and taxes not included.
> 
> Frustration abounds.
> 
> I haven't made any calls yet  and I'm taking suggestions if you're willing to offer them.
> 
> Respect!



What do you mean they sold you out to Tae Kwon Do? If they are going smack you with a rent hike they should at least add some incentives and put your class in the catalog.  



shesulsa said:


> I'm getting on the horse today gathering information about commercial spaces around town to compile a comparative data presentation.  There is a brand new shopping center/strip mall right across the street with over 60% vacancy and last I looked into something like that, they wanted around $600 for about 500 square feet. I don't know what the current market rate is on commercial rentals but seriously, if I'm going to pay a grand a month on a rental, it damn sure won't be in a community center!
> 
> The reason I like being at the community center is the nature of the convenience for families. It also suits the nature of my program (family-oriented) and it's tucked away. I can do my own thing and not have a huge spotlight on my dojang. The situation purports availability to *everyone* and that's my focus, really.
> 
> But ... a grand a month? for the trouble I deal with there? NO.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll be calling on commercial space, a local dance company, a few fitness centers around town, the school district, churches, etcetera.
> 
> *snorts* I did all of this LAST year in search of a place, jeez!



You are doing the right thing. This is actually the best time to look for space because the real estate market is barely alive. You will be surprised what type of deals you can find. I know one teacher who had to find a space in 24 hours.

But I agree with the others. Look at dance studios, churches and fraternal hall.


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## shesulsa

Yup - did this dance before and I gotta tell ya, it's frustrating as HELL!!

The churches in the area informed me that unless I'm a non-profit or not-for-profit business that they can't let me rent a space there because of their non-profit status. Same with the schools.

The dance school in the area (yes, there is only one) is a private studio built on someone's residential property and they said no.

The local real estate market is running $20-$25 per sq. ft. per year plus about $5 per sq. ft. for triple net. Some charge a profit percentage, others do not.  For anything less, I've got to go into neighborhoods my clients won't go into and deal with local businesses they won't want to have to be close to.

BUT! I found one deal in downtown Vancouver that will rent me a low-ceiling room in a historical building in the basement for about $400 per month.  The bad thing about this place is that it's Westside (I'm trying to focus on Eastside) and the room is a dump - I'll have to do some work to it. That could also be considered the best thing about it as I can paint it, put mats down, and it will be *mine* - all mine! No butter on the floor, no waiting for the room to get set up, no competition with any other style in the whole building, cheap signeage ... it could be a good thing.

I spoke with some of my parents last night who said they will follow me wherever I go. We'll see what the rest think.

My preference is to be offered in their catalog and take a percentage of enrollment. My next best alternative is to offer them a rent rate higher than what I'm currently paying but within what I can afford.  If they stand firm on the $60/hour, I'm gone.


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## LuckyKBoxer

Just a suggestion..
You might want to look at local apartment complexes.. Many of the larger ones have large activity rooms, and if you worked something out to offer their residents a deal, or even a certain amount free lessons I would not be surprised if you got the room for free for certain hours every week.
It is something you can look into anyways..


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## jks9199

shesulsa said:


> Yup - did this dance before and I gotta tell ya, it's frustrating as HELL!!
> 
> The churches in the area informed me that unless I'm a non-profit or not-for-profit business that they can't let me rent a space there because of their non-profit status. Same with the schools.
> 
> The dance school in the area (yes, there is only one) is a private studio built on someone's residential property and they said no.
> 
> The local real estate market is running $20-$25 per sq. ft. per year plus about $5 per sq. ft. for triple net. Some charge a profit percentage, others do not.  For anything less, I've got to go into neighborhoods my clients won't go into and deal with local businesses they won't want to have to be close to.
> 
> BUT! I found one deal in downtown Vancouver that will rent me a low-ceiling room in a historical building in the basement for about $400 per month.  The bad thing about this place is that it's Westside (I'm trying to focus on Eastside) and the room is a dump - I'll have to do some work to it. That could also be considered the best thing about it as I can paint it, put mats down, and it will be *mine* - all mine! No butter on the floor, no waiting for the room to get set up, no competition with any other style in the whole building, cheap signeage ... it could be a good thing.
> 
> I spoke with some of my parents last night who said they will follow me wherever I go. We'll see what the rest think.
> 
> My preference is to be offered in their catalog and take a percentage of enrollment. My next best alternative is to offer them a rent rate higher than what I'm currently paying but within what I can afford.  If they stand firm on the $60/hour, I'm gone.


Why do they think they can get away with doubling the local rental rates?


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## shesulsa

jks9199 said:


> Why do they think they can get away with doubling the local rental rates?



They are currently giving me a non-profit rate and did so to help me get my business going - but an ongoing, low-income rental rate is twice what I currently pay.  Still - it's about 1,000 square feet. $60/hr x 4 hours = $240 per week and $960 per month. Across the street are build-to-suits for $28 per square foot per year which translates to $2333 per month.

The place at the Academy is probably about 800 square feet for $450 per month.  

Another concern is if they don't put me in the catalog and accept the double-rent option, they just might do the same thing next year and raise my rent again - and this spot won't be open then.

Sooo ... I may have already made up my mind.


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## shesulsa

terryl965 said:


> Shesulsa have you gone and talked to the management and explain your current stituation?


Terry, I met with the rest of the parents tonight and they all said they'd be willing to write letters requesting we be put back into the catalog.  This decision is coming down from the City, overriding the Facilities Manager.



Carol said:


> Not the most glamorous option...is it possible to rent a garage, or a storage space large enough to hold class?  The fellow that started CrossFit NH started up in a rented 1 car garage.


The locals around here are grandfathering existing programs doing this in and rejecting other offers along these lines. Too bad, too. I know a good spot.



Grenadier said:


> If they're unwilling to budge, then contact the various fitness centers in the area (Gold's Gym, et al).  Many of them have spacious rooms with mirrors, and you can usually come to some sort of reasonable agreement with them.  It may even give you an opportunity to find more students.


Great idea - problem is everyone has it and all the local gyms here already have so many programs in their rooms they have no more time to let out.



Bill Mattocks said:


> Oh, and one more thing - our own dojo rents out space to a Yoga class on the one day a week we're not in it ourselves.  So perhaps another MA studio of some sort?


I'll keep trying, but most dojos / dojangs here don't want the competition nearby, let alone within the same walls.



Big Don said:


> My aunt rents out commercial buildings, a big empty room with a roll up door, a small bathroom and a smallish office. Looking down the road, for myself, that is where I'll teach.


See comment above, and thanks!



Kittan Bachika said:


> What do you mean they sold you out to Tae Kwon Do? If they are going smack you with a rent hike they should at least add some incentives and put your class in the catalog.


Answer to your question - they took my program out of the catalog when it was in transition between instructors/owners and installed a local Tae Kwon Do program to bring in more clients and make more money. Everyone knows what TKD is - NOBODY knows what Pung Wol Do is.



> You are doing the right thing. This is actually the best time to look for space because the real estate market is barely alive. You will be surprised what type of deals you can find. I know one teacher who had to find a space in 24 hours.
> 
> But I agree with the others. Look at dance studios, churches and fraternal hall.



Thanks.



LuckyKBoxer said:


> Just a suggestion..
> You might want to look at local apartment complexes.. Many of the larger ones have large activity rooms, and if you worked something out to offer their residents a deal, or even a certain amount free lessons I would not be surprised if you got the room for free for certain hours every week.
> It is something you can look into anyways..


Someone else IRL recently suggested this to me and I've yet to follow up on it. I will make some phone calls tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and suggestions!


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## Carol

Would it be an option to start up your school as a non-profit?   I really don't know much about the non-profit organizations, but if your focus for now is on children, and you have reached out to (or attracted) children from low-to-medium income familes, or children with special needs, you may have enough grounds to go that route.


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## jks9199

shesulsa said:


> They are currently giving me a non-profit rate and did so to help me get my business going - but an ongoing, low-income rental rate is twice what I currently pay.  Still - it's about 1,000 square feet. $60/hr x 4 hours = $240 per week and $960 per month. Across the street are build-to-suits for $28 per square foot per year which translates to $2333 per month.
> 
> The place at the Academy is probably about 800 square feet for $450 per month.
> 
> Another concern is if they don't put me in the catalog and accept the double-rent option, they just might do the same thing next year and raise my rent again - and this spot won't be open then.
> 
> Sooo ... I may have already made up my mind.


Guess I misunderstood the math.  It sounded like they were wanting you to suddenly pay double the normal rate.

Seems a lot like this place doesn't really want you there and doesn't want to support your school...


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## shesulsa

jks9199 said:


> Guess I misunderstood the math.  It sounded like they were wanting you to suddenly pay double the normal rate.
> 
> Seems a lot like this place doesn't really want you there and doesn't want to support your school...



Sure does, doesn't it?  My problem with the offer for double the rent is ... this will likely happen again within the year and then what?  Meh.


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## dancingalone

> Everyone knows what TKD is - NOBODY knows what Pung Wol Do is



Since you're apparently going to be moving, it might be a good idea to reconsider branding when you make your new signage and advertisements.  What do you currently call your school?


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## shesulsa

dancingalone said:


> Since you're apparently going to be moving, it might be a good idea to reconsider branding when you make your new signage and advertisements.  What do you currently call your school?



If you look at the logo on my avatar, it's Columbia Martial Arts Academy.


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## dancingalone

:angel:  I guess I trained my eyes to miss seeing avatars in addition to banner ads.

Well, the name seems innocuous enough, but it doesn't say enough about you IMO.  It's easy enough to advertise for a TKD school.... "Columbia Martial Arts, Friendly Taekwondo for All Ages".  That tells me in a few words what kind of a program it is.  What would you write for Columbia Martial Arts and Pung Wol Do?


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## shesulsa

I just got off the phone with the facilities director and he "assured" me that the hike for May will not be what was anticipated ... BUT ... 

The community center movement in Vancouver seems to be changing drastically. There have been many smaller businesses that teach under a contract employee situation which the city is now trying to eliminate completely. The move is towards prescribed offered classes and hourly-waged city employees as the instructors of these programs.

Apparently, I am the only on-going, regular contracted rental the city has. Further, the room rental rates are all over the place in price (likely because of recurring occasional rentals) and the idea of raising the price to standard is being applied across the board - but again, I'm unique so he's going to propose a much smaller amount for me.

The proposal is due tomorrow and I will know Monday if I'm approved to continue or not.

Again - even if this goes well, I don't believe this is over.


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## shesulsa

dancingalone said:


> :angel:  I guess I trained my eyes to miss seeing avatars in addition to banner ads.
> 
> Well, the name seems innocuous enough, but it doesn't say enough about you IMO.  It's easy enough to advertise for a TKD school.... "Columbia Martial Arts, Friendly Taekwondo for All Ages".  That tells me in a few words what kind of a program it is.  What would you write for Columbia Martial Arts and Pung Wol Do?



From my facebook page - search for Columbia Martial Arts Academy and become a fan today  - "Realistic defense for all walks of life, progressive belt-ranking program, family environment." 

There's more on my trifold flyer and I'll get my website up one of these days.


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## ArmorOfGod

This is not the same story, but is kind of similar.  I was in the local community center for 3 years when they decided to remove all programs not run directly by the county.  That kicked out all programs after 3pm, which included me, the aerobics class, the yoga class, and the dance class.  Now, they have a huge building that no none uses after 3:00.  
They did that blanket decision for all 4 locations in the community center chain for the county.  That also kicked my instructor out of the building he had been in for 6 years (at that point in time).

I went to my pastor and told him the situation (I was about to ask if I could use the multi-purpose room) and he interupted me to tell me to move it to that room.  My martial arts class has now been at the church for 1 year and 1 week now and I have no plans on moving out. 

Still, it was a huge mess when they told me I had two weeks to tell my students to leave.  2 weeks is not long enough to find or rent a building to move a large class to.  In my computer, I had a long list of community centers, dance studios, and churches where I had contacts.  I had that list if I was ever kicked out of the community center, and lo and behold, it did happen.  I pulled my list out that day, but talked to my pastor before I started down that list.

My story has a happy ending, but I am saying I feel your pain.  Good luck!

AoG


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