# strange



## marlon (Mar 18, 2008)

i have run out of taiji questions because i have the answer for every one that i can come up with these days:  more practice.  I really enjoy this stuff and it improves everything in my physical life....ok more practice

marlon


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## DaPoets (Mar 18, 2008)

yeah I was at taiji tonightfrom 5:15 till 8:45...


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## ggg214 (Mar 19, 2008)

No practise No gain!
taiji should be understood by our body and expressed by our body, not by our mind.
So, let's go and practise as much as possible!


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## Bobby135 (Mar 19, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> No practise No gain!
> taiji should be understood by our body and expressed by our body, not by our mind.
> So, let's go and practise as much as possible!


 
I have to somewhat disagree.  Taiji and all martial arts should be expressed by the body, but especially in internal arts such as Tai Chi and Bagua the mind is essential to the art.  The mind plays an integral part in moving energy throughout the body and then expressing that energy outward.  Any other thoughts???


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 19, 2008)

I agree with you Bobby The Yi (logical mind intent) is an important key in developing, cultivating and generating Qi. Using the body only for example in Wai gong type exercises does allow a certain degree of development cultivation and generating as seen in things like weight lifting. It is my personal belief that though a certain degree is generated by things like weight training which impacts health because the person does not know the correct methods of cultivation the extra Qi gathered disperses.
This is why both Waidan and Neidan practices complete each other.


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## DaPoets (Mar 19, 2008)

Dual Cultivation.... Mind and Body.

I do however belive that your cultivation of the mind will very much be limited based on how healthy your body is.  Poisons in the body effect the mind (toxins, bad food, liquor, poor lifestyle, etc..)  and on the flip side, the mind can cause physical harm to the body, like stress, anxiety, overly strong desires, they all do physical damage to the human body.

be happy and at peace when you practice taiji and you will cultivate both the mind and body.


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## Bobby135 (Mar 19, 2008)

The mind and body most certainly have a dichotomous relationship.  You must train both in order to be at your best.  When one is deficient, the other will not be at it's full potential.  Just the way it goes.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 19, 2008)

ggg214 said:


> No practise No gain!
> taiji should be understood by our body and expressed by our body, not by our mind.
> So, let's go and practise as much as possible!


 
ggg214, 

Please forgive the following interpretation and if I am wrong please feel free to correct me



Bobby135 said:


> I have to somewhat disagree. Taiji and all martial arts should be expressed by the body, but especially in internal arts such as Tai Chi and Bagua the mind is essential to the art. The mind plays an integral part in moving energy throughout the body and then expressing that energy outward. Any other thoughts???


 


JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I agree with you Bobby The Yi (logical mind intent) is an important key in developing, cultivating and generating Qi. Using the body only for example in Wai gong type exercises does allow a certain degree of development cultivation and generating as seen in things like weight lifting. It is my personal belief that though a certain degree is generated by things like weight training which impacts health because the person does not know the correct methods of cultivation the extra Qi gathered disperses.
> This is why both Waidan and Neidan practices complete each other.



I do not think that ggg214 is saying do not think and that taiji is purely physical. I do think he is saying that it is better to train taiji than sit around thinking about questions about taiji. 

I think he is referring to what my Sifu calls sandao

To practice Sandao

First one must complete your Shen (Spirit) and you must unify your Shen with the movement. Second you must make your Yi (thought, intension) an important part of every move and third is Shi (posture, position) it must be correct and comfortable. 

You cannot unify Shen with movement without movement and you cannot make Yi part of every movement without movement and you cannot have correct Shi without movement.

sitting around and thinking about taiji and asking questions about taiji is a good but if that is all you do you do not train and you get nowhere without training (movement)


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## Bobby135 (Mar 19, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> sitting around and thinking about taiji and asking questions about taiji is a good but if that is all you do you do not train and you get nowhere without training (movement)


 
Agreed


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Mar 19, 2008)

Thank you Xue,
I feel your post adds more clarity as to what Ggg214 was saying.
:asian:


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## ggg214 (Mar 20, 2008)

Thanks for Xue Sheng's translation!as english is not my native language, i still need hard work to make progress&#65281;
my master always explains the relationship between body and minc like this :body is rice in chinese food, mind is sugar. rice helps you out of hunger, sugar just makes your dinner delicious. without rice, you may starve and die; without sugar, you don't have problem of death. another explaination is also said by my master: body is the pipe, mind is the water in the pipe. without pipe, water will flood everywhere. so i posted those words and try to say body training is the basic and key part of taiji.
on the other hand, there are many people who understand how taiji is doing, but only few of them can express taiji in form, push-hands or fighting. then i said so and try to say to those people, when you can applicate taiji, then you can say you understand taiji.
i hope you all can understand what i am saying!


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## Wen Kien (Mar 21, 2008)

If I may interject a few words on Tai Chi from a person who has studied it of 37 years, I have to smile on reading all the posts. Welcome to the being an advancing Tai Chi student.  One will always find more questions about the art. The mind and the body are two parts of a whole. The movements of Tai Chi trains the mind, and the exercise of the mind trains the body. My sifu would say the interpertation of one movement should lead to three more.  The three should lead to nine, and from nine to ten thousand (old chinese concept of infinity). If studied with an open mind, any movement or application should yield a great number of variances. By opening your mind through such exercise your mind starts to explore beyond the physical and into the metaphysical, closer to the Taoism. 

"The Tao that can be explained is not the Tao."


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## marlon (Mar 21, 2008)

yi and interrpretation of movements  (it seems i have a new question :0)
could suggest to someone a different intention for the same movement, is this the practice or the intention that is spoken of is more about movement of qi?  Or, something else?  I have been using intention more to ..."complete" the postures and although i have some applications in mind there seems to be a holographic integrity (sort of something that is the ten essesnces but greater than the sum of them)to each posture that can feel complete or incomplete in my practice.  It is like the feeling of "getting it" in the move.  in my practice i am working on (and am very far from) getting it with each posture and later i will begin to wrap myself around getting it in the transition moves because to begin now might drive me insane.  Every once in a while, in the practice of the form i do think/ notice that i got it a few postures ago but missed it while it happened which is frustrating because it kind goes against one of the ideas in intentionality but, this is where i am for now.
any thoughts , especially to point out where i am off, is always welcome.  You need not concern yourself with protecting my ego...i am learning 
respectfully,
Marlon


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## pete (Mar 21, 2008)

Wen Kien said:


> If I may interject a few words on Tai Chi from a person who has studied it of 37 years, I have to smile on reading all the posts. Welcome to the being an advancing Tai Chi student. One will always find more questions about the art. The mind and the body are two parts of a whole. The movements of Tai Chi trains the mind, and the exercise of the mind trains the body. My sifu would say the interpertation of one movement should lead to three more. The three should lead to nine, and from nine to ten thousand (old chinese concept of infinity). If studied with an open mind, any movement or application should yield a great number of variances. By opening your mind through such exercise your mind starts to explore beyond the physical and into the metaphysical, closer to the Taoism.
> 
> "The Tao that can be explained is not the Tao."


Opening your mind too wide, and you'll risk having your brains falling out... base your practice on a balance of confidence and understanding. 

i got a smile from reading your post too, welcome to the boards my friend.

pete


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 22, 2008)

marlon said:


> yi and interrpretation of movements (it seems i have a new question :0)
> could suggest to someone a different intention for the same movement, is this the practice or the intention that is spoken of is more about movement of qi? Or, something else? I have been using intention more to ..."complete" the postures and although i have some applications in mind there seems to be a holographic integrity (sort of something that is the ten essesnces but greater than the sum of them)to each posture that can feel complete or incomplete in my practice. It is like the feeling of "getting it" in the move. in my practice i am working on (and am very far from) getting it with each posture and later i will begin to wrap myself around getting it in the transition moves because to begin now might drive me insane. Every once in a while, in the practice of the form i do think/ notice that i got it a few postures ago but missed it while it happened which is frustrating because it kind goes against one of the ideas in intentionality but, this is where i am for now.
> any thoughts , especially to point out where i am off, is always welcome. You need not concern yourself with protecting my ego...i am learning
> respectfully,
> Marlon


 
Intention is necessary for the entire movement, not just the end.

Remember "Yi Qi Li" 

Yi (intention, thought) moves Qi. Qi moves the arms and legs to create Li (power)

Getting it is wonderful but the problem is that when you realize you got it you now think too much and try to hard to get it again. In other words not Using the Mind Instead Of Force. Part of this whole thing is to relax it is very important and at times very hard to do; Relaxation of Waist, Sinking of Shoulders and Elbows, Tranquility in Movement. These sound familiar



> THE TEN ESSENTIALS OF TAIJIQUAN
> by Yang Cheng fu
> 
> 1 Straightening the Head
> ...


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