# Where did the Kanzen Kenpo thread go?



## Bob Hubbard (Mar 20, 2003)

*Administrative Notice*

I have temporarily removed this thread from public viewing.

I am doing so for the following reasons:

I have been informed that by having this thread on here, that I may be personally at risk for any comments made in there. 

Regarding Joe Foster:
I will be seeking clarification on his 'legal' status. I have been told that he is a convicted child molester, and that he hasn't been convicted at all. *I would like to see a copy of some proof.  A news clipping, the court case#, conviction information.  *

Regarding Kanzen Kenpo:
Is this a legitimate art?  Does the -art- have anything to do with the 'Joe Foster' case?


Under U.S. Law, the disclosure of known sex offenders is legal.


> Community Notification  Megans Law allows the States discretion to establish criteria for disclosure, but compels them to make private and personal information on registered sex offenders available to the public.
> 
> Community notification:
> Assists law enforcement in investigations;
> ...


See http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-legmeg.htm for information.

I will remind those on both sides of this issue the following:
This forum is under U.S. Juristiction.
It is not libel to disclose information related to this issue.


> Sex offenders pose a high risk of re-offending after release from custody;
> 
> Protecting the public from sex offenders is a primary governmental interest;
> 
> ...




More information : http://www.forsarah.com


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## Robbo (Mar 20, 2003)

> Regarding Kanzen Kenpo:
> Is this a legitimate art? Does the -art- have anything to do with the 'Joe Foster' case?



Depends on what you mean by legitimate?
Kanzen was created by Mr. Foster after training in various other styles, most notably American Kenpo.

If you need more info just PM me.

Rob


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 20, 2003)

I believe it to be (based on the posts here) a derivative of EPAK.

I'm more concerned with "Does the -art- have anything to do with the 'Joe Foster' case?".

Trying to be fair based on various things in a -very- hot issue.


*Note: Anyone wishing to send me a scan of a news clipping, or whatnot:
Send to kaithrustaz@martialtalk.com
send only GIF JPG JPEG or PNG files.  

PDFs, EXEs, etc will bounce back due to our anti-virus software filtering them.*

Thank you to those who have already contacted me about this.
:asian:


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## Robbo (Mar 20, 2003)

What originally started all this is a certain "stretch" that Mr. Foster used to do to "select" students.

This 'stretch' has nothing to do with Kanzen Kenpo and was only done my Mr. Foster and was not performed by any other than him.

So unfortunately for Kanzen Kenpo the art has to be seperated from the man who created it until the whole mess is sorted out or...the art dies.

Rob


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Mar 24, 2003)

> I'm more concerned with "Does the -art- have anything to do with the 'Joe Foster' case?".



No, not really. The art can be taught by anyone with a valid teaching license, or by those seeking to get their license by working in a franchised school.

P.S. Just wondering, since it's a Canadian case, do the American or Canadian rules apply? (I actually don't know, I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything.)


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## GouRonin (Mar 24, 2003)

You don't need a license to teach the art if you are not using the names of techniques etc. Motion cannot be copywritten.

The news reported in the USA on Canadian cases doesn't have to follow Canadian laws. (See the bernardo case)


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Mar 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *You don't need a license to teach the art if you are not using the names of techniques etc. Motion cannot be copywritten.
> 
> The news reported in the USA on Canadian cases doesn't have to follow Canadina laws. (See the bernardo case) *



True, but if you're claiming that it's your own, invented material, that's just dishonest and if you actually know the system and like it enough to teach it, why not use the proper names...?

And thanks for clearing that up on the law thing.


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## GouRonin (Mar 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crazy Chihuahua _
> *True, but if you're claiming that it's your own, invented material, that's just dishonest and if you actually know the system and like it enough to teach it, why not use the proper names...?*



I don't think anyone is claiming Kanzen as their own except Joe. Besides, Ed Parker invented the material.

As for teaching it, well, that's a moot point anyway since most everyone involved with the system has a license to teach it. I think it's more than fair that these guys want to help those involved finish up what they started and help them move on.



> _Originally posted by Crazy Chihuahua _
> *And thanks for clearing that up on the law thing. *



No worries.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Mar 24, 2003)

> As for teaching it, well, that's a moot point anyway since most everyone involved with the system has a license to teach it. I think it's more than fair that these guys want to help those involved finish up what they started and help them move on.


This is true: all current black belts now have a license. I'm not sure what "guys" you're talking about, though, we may not be on exactly the same train of thought. I was just trying to clear up the original inquiry of this thread...


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## GouRonin (Mar 24, 2003)

KKBB said earlier that there were people who wanted to continue their Kanzen training and finish up their black. I was referring to them.

I imagine that anyone who is involved with the Kanzen group can come and finish up their work but that anyone wishing to start learning will be learning EPAK.


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## Kirk (Mar 24, 2003)

Where did the name "Kanzen" come from?


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## arnisador (Mar 24, 2003)

Yeah, I wondered that too!


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## GouRonin (Mar 24, 2003)

I believe it is a Japanese word meaning _"Ultimate."_ I am unsure if it exactly Japanese though and it's exact meaning.

However, if it is Japanese it always struck me as rather odd as EPAK is said to be more Chinese than Japanese. Perhaps when it was being created they had a desire to be working on the Japanese influences more than anything else or just didn't know what they heck they were talking about. Your choice.

In any case, I have been told that the Kanzen refers to this style of Kenpo being the next and superior version, or _"Ultimate"_ version of EPAK's evolution. The rumour mill has it, and I cannot confirm this because no one will admit to stating it although I have heard it numerous times, that Joe Foster claimed to have been working on this version of Kenpo with Mr. Parker together in collaboration. However, anyone I have asked is unable to substantiate it.

It is quite possible that I am wrong on these issues. If anyone else knows more please correct me.
:asian:


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## jeffkyle (Mar 25, 2003)

> _
> The rumour mill has it, and I cannot confirm this because no one will admit to stating it although I have heard it numerous times, that Joe Foster claimed to have been working on this version of Kenpo with Mr. Parker together in collaboration. However, anyone I have asked is unable to substantiate it.
> 
> It is quite possible that I am wrong on these issues. If anyone else knows more please correct me.
> :asian: [/B]_


_ 

It is funny how *many* seemed to be doing that very thing...:shrug:  IT is amazing Mr. Parker had time to develop the art as HE saw fit._


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## JD_Nelson (Mar 25, 2003)

I think one thing we all seem to forget is Mr. Parker made everyone feel like he or she was right and special.   If you take the tailoring concept and stretch it a bit more i think it is easy to see  how an individual may have felt like they were working on their own 'style'. 

I must state I have never met Mr. Parker.  I have not been in Kenpo for very long either, but one thing most seem to agree on is Mr. Parker made every one feel like he/she was important duing the periods they were together.


Salute


JD


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## jeffkyle (Mar 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by JD_Nelson _
> *I think one thing we all seem to forget is Mr. Parker made everyone feel like he or she was right and special.   If you take the tailoring concept and stretch it a bit more i think it is easy to see  how an individual may have felt like they were working on their own 'style'.
> 
> I must state I have never met Mr. Parker.  I have not been in Kenpo for very long either, but one thing most seem to agree on is Mr. Parker made every one feel like he/she was important duing the periods they were together.
> ...



I would have to agree with that completely!  That is what i gather from what I hear about him.


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## brianhunter (Mar 25, 2003)

That is probably why so many followed Mr. Parker, from the stories you hear about how he made people feel special or gave them all something personal. A great man how knew a lot about people as well as his art.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Where did the name "Kanzen" come from? *



It's Japanese and it translates to "complete"


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 13, 2003)

I have removed from public view the 2 threads dealing with Joe Foster, and his Kanzen organization until such time as I can have them reviewed by my corporate legal team. The thread in the Horror Stories forum will remain up indefinitely.

I have done this at the request of Jaybacca and Gou, and not because of some anonymous lamers ranting.

I myself feel that the threads would hold up in a court of law due to the legal definitions of various terms, as well as our legal documents here.

I myself have said nothing slanderous, libelous or malicious. I have accurately reported on Joe Fosters published conviction as a sex offender as listed in the "London Free Press", as well as other sources.  My listing of that status here is in accordance with US Law relating to the publics right to know outweighing the individuals right to privacy, especially in sex offence cases. I will remind the readers that this is a U.S. based forum, and as such, under United States jurisdiction.

In the event that Mr. Foster gets his conviction overturned, the information will be removed from here.

To serve me papers, please file them in the State of New York, County of Erie, United States of America.

Papers may be served by mail at:
Robert Hubbard
C/O SilverStar WebDesigns Inc.
P.O. Box 1372
Buffalo, NY 14220

and now, some definitions to educate those hot headed butt munches who think they can intimidate this forum and its staff. I also refer you to the first post in this thread for additional legal information.

=====
*li·bel* n. 

A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. 
The act of presenting such material to the public. 
The written claims presented by a plaintiff in an action at admiralty law or to an ecclesiastical court. 

*de·fame  * 
tr.v. de·famed, de·fam·ing, de·fames 
To damage the reputation, character, or good name of by slander or libel. See Synonyms at malign. 
Archaic. To disgrace.  

*slan·der*    n. 
Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation. 
A false and malicious statement or report about someone. 

v. slan·dered, slan·der·ing, slan·ders 
v. tr.
To utter a slander about. See Synonyms at malign. 

*ma·lign * 
tr.v. ma·ligned, ma·lign·ing, ma·ligns 
To make evil, harmful, and often untrue statements about; speak evil of.

adj. 
Evil in disposition, nature, or intent. 
Evil in influence; injurious. 
Having or showing malice or ill will; malevolent.  
(More definitions at http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=malign )

*pred·a·tor*
n. 
An organism that lives by preying on other organisms. 
One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain.

*sex·u·al * adj. 
Of, relating to, involving, or characteristic of sex, sexuality, the sexes, or the sex organs and their functions. 
Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.  


*Sexual Predator Information*
(c/O Florida )http://lcso.leonfl.org/sexpre.htm

Definition of Sexual Predator : http://www.unf.edu/dept/upd/def_predator.pdf
Definition of Sex Offender : http://www.unf.edu/dept/upd/def_offender.pdf


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## arnisador (Apr 13, 2003)

If anyone wants to sue me, they should PM me for service information. I will provide it--no questions asked. I reside in the State of Indiana.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## jaybacca72 (Apr 14, 2003)

this is for the record ,i was so pissed about the avengers post that i called foster at his mom's house and talked to him about some issues.let's get one thing straight doug nor myself were bullied into anything,i have no secrets but i do have money for counter suits that can tie things up quite well as i informed joe,and doug has acess to the same . we the instructors at forest city martial arts(the name we decided on) ie dave,adam and me to ask mt and bob to lock the thread. i told joe that the comments about him personally will be stopped however i did not say that i won't continue posting about kanzen.i will let the wheels of justice take it's course and see what happens,hopefully the court of appeals don't change the decision. the only deal i made with joe was you don't bother me and i won't bother you for now.should any kanzen person wish to start again then all deals are off and i will come out with both barrells for a very long time so take that as you like. i would just like to concentrate on the school my knives and my own training and work on providing our area with the best martial arts instruction that we can possibly provide and of course we will do just that. good luck to all you kanzen people out there you are going to need it and yes there is a group of new/old sherrifs in town so your welcome to come and train with us and see for yourselves.
later
jay :asian:


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