# UFC 123 - Post Fight Thoughts - spoiler alert



## Makalakumu (Nov 21, 2010)

I went into Honolulu last night to watch UFC 123 and it was pretty wild.  BJ Penn is wildly popular in Hawaii and the crowd went nuts when he put Matt Hughes down.  I did not expect it to end that fast, but then again, I think Matt is not the same Matt of four years ago.  

I thought Machida won.  Even though he let Rampage control the center of the Octogon, I thought that Machida controlled the pace and tempo of the fight and that he instigated more the action, but split decisions are weird.  I guess it's karma for the Rua fight that was called in Machida's favor.  For a BJJ blackbelt, I thought he would do more with Rampage on the ground, but his game plan didn't seem to include position and submission.  

Lots of other good fights, but those are the ones everyone was following.  Sotiropoulous dominated Joe Lauzon on the ground.  I don't know much about him, but his jujutsu seems off the hook.  I thought he busted Joe's arm with that Kimura.  He put it on fast and damn if it didn't go up his back and past his neck.

Harris vs Boetsch.  This fight was a mismatch,  Boetsch looked like the cable guy and Harris was shredded.  The one armed kimura surprised the crap out of me.  On the replay I could see him go underneath and finish that technique, but for the most part, he did that sub one handed!  Dang!

Your thoughts?


----------



## Tanaka (Nov 22, 2010)

I think that decision was even bigger surprise than the Rua vs Machida decision.


----------



## punisher73 (Nov 23, 2010)

maunakumu said:


> I thought Machida won. Even though he let Rampage control the center of the Octogon, I thought that Machida controlled the pace and tempo of the fight and that he instigated more the action, but split decisions are weird. I guess it's karma for the Rua fight that was called in Machida's favor. For a BJJ blackbelt, I thought he would do more with Rampage on the ground, but his game plan didn't seem to include position and submission.
> Your thoughts?


 
I had the fight Jackson for the first two rounds and Machida for the last round.  One of the things that the judges score is aggression.  Machida's style is not aggressive, as Jackson said before the fight, it is the ultimate FIGHTING championship, not the ultimate ELUSIVE man.  Machida spends most of his time backpedaling and trying to stay out of range and then look for an opening to lunge in, as he did in the 3rd round.  This style of counterfighting works for Machida, but when he doesn't knock out his opponent or isn't able to find that opening until late in the fight it goes against him in the scoring.

I am a Machida fan, and thought the decision was fair.  I will be curious about the rematch that they both want.  Hopefully, Dana makes it happen soon.  It will be also interesting to see how Machida handles the loss and effects his fight strategies.  He lost the Rua fight because he said he was too aggressive and didn't counterfight and stay out of range enough.  He lost the decision to Jackson, because basically he wasn't aggressive enough and able to do enough damage to secure the win.


----------



## Tanaka (Nov 23, 2010)

That is why cage fighting cannot be considered the point of which proves "What is better for real life fighting"

The rules should allow Machida's way of fighting. It's clear to me that Machida did the most damage and takedowns. His style of Karate is apparently based on counter striking. But obviously they want visual pleasure for the crowd more than effective fighting. Although ironically they will give a win to someone who secures a bunch of take downs, but does nothing afterward. They need to change the scoring.


----------



## Omar B (Nov 23, 2010)

I think the whole card was disappointing.  Aside from the BJ Penn fight everything else was pretty bad.  

As much as I love Machida I recognize that he didn't win.  He did do a lot of damage when compared to Rampage.  But he also didn't engage and didn't get aggressive till the end.  It's a fight he clearly could have won if he was more aggressive.

On the radio Sunday morning I was listening to sports radio and the two commentators brought up an interesting point.  Machida would have won decisively if the fight went 5 rounds.  They posited that big fights like Rampage/Machida or Hughes/Penn should be 5 rounds rather than 3.  But then I think it comes down to criteria of what makes a "big fight."  Besides, the 3 rounds does a lot to compress time and force action.


----------



## punisher73 (Nov 24, 2010)

Omar B said:


> As much as I love Machida I recognize that he didn't win. He did do a lot of damage when compared to Rampage. But he also didn't engage and didn't get aggressive till the end. It's a fight he clearly could have won if he was more aggressive.
> 
> On the radio Sunday morning I was listening to sports radio and the two commentators brought up an interesting point. Machida would have won decisively if the fight went 5 rounds. They posited that big fights like Rampage/Machida or Hughes/Penn should be 5 rounds rather than 3. But then I think it comes down to criteria of what makes a "big fight." Besides, the 3 rounds does a lot to compress time and force action.


 
I thought the same thing about the fight, that if it was 5 rounds the results might have been different. But, then what do you set for title fights that are 5 rounds?

Should the UFC bring back the "Superfight" like they used to do?  Say, in the case of BJ Penn and Matt Hughes, the title wasn't at stack and to be honest their fight really didn't have any title implications as far as contender status at that point.  Should the UFC create a superfight that is 5 rounds?  Obviously, this was an example, since no matter how many rounds the Hughes/Penn fight went it wouldn't have mattered.


----------



## punisher73 (Nov 24, 2010)

Tanaka said:


> That is why cage fighting cannot be considered the point of which proves "What is better for real life fighting"
> 
> The rules should allow Machida's way of fighting. It's clear to me that Machida did the most damage and takedowns. His style of Karate is apparently based on counter striking. But obviously they want visual pleasure for the crowd more than effective fighting. Although ironically they will give a win to someone who secures a bunch of take downs, but does nothing afterward. They need to change the scoring.


 
I agree about the scoring and takedowns. But, here is one of the problems. Machida didn't do anything really for about 12 1/2 minutes of the 15 minute fight. Jackson was constantly pressing forward trying to make something happen. Machida's style is effective only because sooner or later the other person gets caught out of frustration. When you play it as a game like Machida, within those rules sometimes it doesn't pan out. The rules do allow for Machida's style of fighting, but there are also time limits and Machida didn't do what he needed to do in the allotted time. No different than a football game where a team is driving the ball down for a touchdown and then runs out of time. They didn't do what they needed to do in the allotted time.

Machida's corner should have been telling him to press the action a little more since it was such a close fight to tip the scoring in his favor.


----------

