# Criteria For Black Belts



## MJS (Jan 21, 2008)

I was reading a thread over at KenpoTalk.  The same thread is here as well, but it was the one on KT that caught my eye.  While the main focus of the thread seems to be on eliminating the belt ranking system, some posts went in, what seemed to me, a discussion on the criteria for a black belt.  So, at this time, I'd like to focus on that aspect.  

What do you feel is the best criteria for giving someone a black belt?  How much of an understanding of the system do they need to have?  Should they be given a belt if they don't have a solid understanding, but they can fight/spar well?  Should they be well rounded in all aspects of the system?

Mike


----------



## KempoGuy06 (Jan 21, 2008)

MJS said:


> I was reading a thread over at KenpoTalk.  The same thread is here as well, but it was the one on KT that caught my eye.  While the main focus of the thread seems to be on eliminating the belt ranking system, some posts went in, what seemed to me, a discussion on the criteria for a black belt.  So, at this time, I'd like to focus on that aspect.
> 
> What do you feel is the best criteria for giving someone a black belt?  How much of an understanding of the system do they need to have?  Should they be given a belt if they don't have a solid understanding, but they can fight/spar well?  Should they be well rounded in all aspects of the system?
> 
> Mike


this is coming from a blue belt point of view but this is what I think a student should be in order to become a black belt from observing black belts at my dojo. 

A belt belt should have a good knowledge of the material and be able to perform that material on command and under pressure situations. It doesnt have to be perfect (lets face no one is), but there mistakes should show that they have the concept down and that they just made a mistake. Also they should have the ability to adapt material on the fly (you call for one thing but change direction, attack angle, type of attack etc). 

Maturity level is key, and has also come up quite often in discussions about black belts. I dont care how good you are, if you strut around like you are wearing a crown and trying to show off you dont deserve the rank, in my opinion what is said about driving can be said about a black belt...It is not a right, it is a privilage. You must show that you can carry the responsibilty of this privilage before being allowed to have it. Having an orginization give you a black belt is a huge honor (in my opinion) and should be treated as such.

Willingness to teach and adapt the art. Im not saying that you *have* to be an instructor but that you must be willing to help lower ranks when they are having issues with material, because lets face we all look up to the black belts...at least I do. Also I believe that the person should be willing to try and adapt what they have learned, to see if there are ways to change it, possibly make it better, quicker, stronger whatever it maybe just something to push the art to the next level if they can, and of course they may not make strides but I believe the effort will only improve them as a martial artist.

Just my .02

B


----------



## morph4me (Jan 21, 2008)

MJS said:


> What do you feel is the best criteria for giving someone a black belt? How much of an understanding of the system do they need to have? Should they be given a belt if they don't have a solid understanding, but they can fight/spar well? Should they be well rounded in all aspects of the system?
> 
> Mike


 
I think that the test for a rank should be based on the minimum criteria for the rank. That way if someone passes the test, you know that they've achieved at least the minimum criteria. I think at minimum for blackbelt it should include understanding the techniques, a history of the art, basic vocabulary, and a review of everything you've learned to get to that point with an eye toward seeing if you've improved since the last time you were tested.


----------



## LawDog (Jan 21, 2008)

The ability to perform your basics, basic patterns and to know how to properly apply them against an opponent.
Basic's = basic physical motion & preset patterns and  basic tactical understanding of.


----------



## Danjo (Jan 21, 2008)

Your green belts should know the basics (except for the couple of forms etc. they don't need yet) and should look good. The brown belts should look good and have power in their techniques. The Black belts should have all that plus finesse and control. In other words, they not only know and can apply the techniques, they have shown some mastery of them as well. 

Prof. Bishop requires his purple belts to be able to fight, so that's why I didn't have that as a criteria.


----------



## KenpoDave (Jan 21, 2008)

I agree with everything said so far.  A high level of physical mastery of the curriculum up to that point is definitely necessary.  Knowledge of the material and the ability to perform the material is necessary.

The ability to teach is not as necessary.  Desirable, sure.  But, I have certified instructors who were not yet black belts, and I have certified black belts who may never become certified to teach.  It is a different skill set.  Not every hall of fame baseball player can coach.  Great coaches don't usually come from the all-star players.  The coaches in good boxing gyms rarely ever glove up.


----------



## Flying Crane (Jan 22, 2008)

If you are following a system (kenpo or otherwise) that has a curriculum laid out, and you are part of that organization or system and these are the established criteria, then they must learn it all, and it must be well understood, and there must be a respectable level of skill with it all.

If you are marching to your own drumbeat, then you get to decide for yourself what criteria must be followed.


----------



## MJS (Jan 28, 2008)

Almost forgot about this thread.  I thought I'd bump it back up for discussion.  

IMHO, I feel that there should be a criteria for black belt.  There are many things to take into consideration.  The person should have a solid understanding of the material.  Part of becoming a BB means that you have made it thru all of the required material.  If someone can't make it past a certain level, how can they possibly be awarded the belt?  You're going to wear a belt, but they had issues with certain areas, being unable to perform, but they get ranked anyway?  Sorry, doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Being able to fight.  Yes, that is important.  You should be able to fight well.  However, is that the deciding factor or just one of the factors?  IMO, it is just one of the factors.  

The BB means that you've reached a certain point in your training, however, its not the end of the road, but simply a beginning to yet another road in front of you.  To award someone rank if they really don't deserve it, cheapens the meaning of the belt.

Mike


----------



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 28, 2008)

I dont think it is enough to reproduce countless techniques, sets and forms. What is realy the key (at least for me and my students) is that they can apply the techniques that they we taught.  Proper body mechanics and understanding the system is very important.  If I see another bleeping EPAK black belt (and I am not just talking about 1st black)who can't pull off a technique unless his partner just stands there and lets him hit him 2,345 times I am going to puck scream and then cry.

It is ok in the beging but come on people.  If you wear black then you should be able to defend yourself against a resistant opponet.


----------



## MJS (Jan 28, 2008)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:


> I dont think it is enough to reproduce countless techniques, sets and forms. What is realy the key (at least for me and my students) is that they can apply the techniques that they we taught. Proper body mechanics and understanding the system is very important. If I see another bleeping EPAK black belt (and I am not just talking about 1st black)who can't pull off a technique unless his partner just stands there and lets him hit him 2,345 times I am going to puck scream and then cry.
> 
> It is ok in the beging but come on people. If you wear black then you should be able to defend yourself against a resistant opponet.


 
Well, you won't get any disagreement from me.  I'm in agreement.


----------



## still learning (Jan 28, 2008)

Hello, Some Judo schools..in order to get the next rank? ...you must beat at least 3 people in same ranks at tournaments and at your Dojo show you can win/beat those people of same ranking, most times before being promoted.

Yes! Many schools have requiirements on a sheet of paper saying you have to do learn so many techniques, forms, drill, and physcial excercises..this is OK.

At black belt level .....If one cannot beat the brown belts in sparring or some form of contact fighting and  againist mulitple attackers?

Than one is NOT ready?   Joe Lewis got his black belt in a few months...he kept beating/ winning againist the other Black belts in his school at Okinawa!   It wasn't forms..or techniques, or physcial...it WAS WINNING/BEATING THE OTHER BLACK BELTS!

Testing time ONLY ......once earn...always earn....yes in time we get, older, slower, weaker as we age and do not train like before.  IT is more like a college degree!

A true test of your martial art skills is in the ring or floor of actual combat?

Today anyone can earn a black belt with the minumum requirements.....

What would you require to be the TRUE TEST OF A BLACK BELT?____________------------------------------------------

On the streets?  ...what does the aveage person expects? of what a black belt should be able to do?

Aloha ( getting older ..sometimes not wiser...still thinking...is there better ways to achieve our goals in the martial arts)


----------



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 29, 2008)

I like that idea but then again I dont like it.  What if the people at your school are not that great at judo?  What if you are able to beat them pretty quickly?  What if the opposite were true?  What if you had a a few world class grapplers and you could never be able to beat them?


----------



## Sigung86 (Jan 30, 2008)

Actually, people seem to forget the idea of the Black Belt.  Back in the days of yore, the Black Belt was a most coveted rank... Especially since, most of the Kenpo schools in those days that I knew of (Texas) only went as high as third Black (SanDan).  

However... It was understood that the attainment of the Black Belt meant that you could perfrom every single basic, apply every single technique against a resisting opponent, and change on the fly to some degree or other.  Even then, though it was taught that at First Black (ShoDan) you were not yet ready to lift buildings and walk under them, or stop arrows in flight with your teeth.  That was reserved for third and later. :lol2:


----------



## Kenpojujitsu3 (Jan 30, 2008)

Atlanta-Kenpo said:


> I like that idea but then again I dont like it. What if the people at your school are not that great at judo? What if you are able to beat them pretty quickly? What if the opposite were true? What if you had a a few world class grapplers and you could never be able to beat them?


 
See this is where I have issues.  Part of me wants to say "so what". A black belt should not be something that everyone can get.  If it's that easy it becomes meaningless.  Unfortunately in alot of places it's that easy.  Just check youtube.


----------



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Jan 30, 2008)

James,

very well said my brother


----------



## Jdokan (Feb 2, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> If you are following a system (kenpo or otherwise) that has a curriculum laid out, and you are part of that organization or system and these are the established criteria, *then they must learn it all, *and it must be well understood, and there must be a respectable level of skill with it all.
> 
> If you are marching to your own drumbeat, then you get to decide for yourself what criteria must be followed.


I agree with the above statement...My son got his 1st brown when he was 18...Six months shy of his BB test he left his dojo.  He has been training with me most of his life, currently he's 25 hasn't gotten all his fomrs down (one's I had to learn) and I won't give him his BB.  He still studies in my dojo even though he has very high skill level at the fighting arts ( sparring, defensive techniques, etc) He has little interest in working on his forms (1-5 kata&Pinion) and as a result I won't allow him to test for BB...
Tradition is something that must be maintained in my opinion...My hope is that eventually he will want to master the forms aspect of our art....
Anyways..GO PATS............


----------

