# Can you recommend me legit Wing Chun channels on youtube?



## kehcorpz (May 2, 2016)

I want to learn about Wing Chun and get a bit an impression of what it's all about, like how the movements are
and what the philosophy behind Wing Chun is.
But on youtube there are always people which suck and simply try to create a following. This is why I ask if you
know good teachers on YT and can recommend them. I don't want to end up watching stuff from some kind of "wing chun master" who then turns out to totally suck.


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## MAfreak (May 3, 2016)

haha then at first stay away from everything of the ewto (european win tsun organisation) and this kernspecht guy, this is just for ripping off people. i don't know a specific youtuber, but if you google for the "fight quest" episode about wing chun, you get a good first look on the principles.


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## Phobius (May 3, 2016)

I think we should avoid lineage bashing, if it can be called that. As for avoiding Kernspecht you are right in terms of he is costly. Ripping of people is a judgement I am not keen in making, but I would not pay him personally.

But even Kernspecht is free of charge on YouTube.


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## MAfreak (May 3, 2016)

problem is, that they teach crap. its dangerous to everyone who thinks to be able to defend themselves in serious situations.


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## Flying Crane (May 3, 2016)

Find a good teacher with whom you can train face-to-face.  Don't try to do it by YouTube or over the Internet.


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## Dirty Dog (May 3, 2016)

Folks, allow me to butt in here and remind you all that MartialTalk does not allow fraud busting.


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## Anuka (May 3, 2016)

If you just want to get a feel for how the art is, just don't take anyone's word as gospel on youtube. Sadly, since anyone can do it, YouTube is full of beginners who are excited to share the art, but don't know it well yet. That doesn't mean you can't get an idea of what the art is about though.


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## Marnetmar (May 3, 2016)

OP if I were you I'd shell out some bucks and pick up some of Robert Chu and Eddie Chong's DVDs.


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## geezer (May 3, 2016)

I'm no fan of their anti-grappling program, but I had the opportunity to work with _Emin Boztepe_ back in the late 80s and once or twice since. He learned under Kernspecht and he could really fight. In fact I'd recommend that the OP check out some of Emin's old stuff on Youtube.


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## yak sao (May 3, 2016)

Add Alex Richter to your list. He has some how cast videos that explain some Wing Chun Concepts. 
He is very well spoken and does a good job of explaining things.


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## geezer (May 3, 2016)

yak sao said:


> Add Alex Richter to your list. He has some how cast videos that explain some Wing Chun Concepts.
> He is very well spoken and does a good job of explaining things.



Alex is another guy who trained under Kernspecht's EWTO. So did my si-dai Jeff Webb who I currently train under. He has great respect for the way the EWTO breaks down and presents the WT material systematically and logically ...even more so than my old Chinese sifu, LT. 

From my own perspective, at times the curriculum seems overly complicated. I just don't have the ability to retain so many complicated "chi-sau sections" and so forth. But others seem do do very well with this program.


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## wckf92 (May 3, 2016)

geezer said:


> I just don't have the ability to retain so many complicated "chi-sau sections"



How many are there?


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## futsaowingchun (May 3, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> How many are there?



depends on how much money the sifu wants to bleed from you...


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## geezer (May 3, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> How many are there?



I can't remember what I had for breakfast and you ask me that!? Jeez, let's see... Chi sau sets alone? ....Seven sets for SNT and Chum Kiu. Those I've got down pretty well, then another batch for Biu Tze ...which I seldom get to practice in their entirety since my students aren't up to that point, then some wooden dummy sets which I don't get to do except when I'm visiting other sifus... so I'm perpetually foggy on that stuff.

For those of you who don't train "Chi Sau Sections" here's an example from some former WT guys who do something pretty similar to what we train. Actually darn similar since it all comes from LT's WT and Kernspecht's EWTO curriculum. Notice that it's actually a pretty complex and scripted series of exchanges:






On the other hand, if you have the concepts down, do you really need all that stuff? ...Sure, I get that the sections teach ways to deal with the energy you receive, but after a while it seems like you don't need them any more. They are kind of like practicing prepared dialogues to learn a second language. Any of you guys ever take Spanish in high school? In my day it began with scripted conversations like: _Hola, me llamo Juan y como te lamas tu? --Hola Juan, soy Paco. Mucho gusto en conocerle._

After you get to the point where you can actually hold a real, s_pontaneous _conversation, practicing prepared dialogues seems really boring and pointless. Oh, sure, they will help you clean up your grammar, but I'm more interested in being able to order a beer._ Uds. ya saben. Que vale todo eso si ni puedes pedir una cerveza bien helada. Y al demonio con los ejercicios de gramatica. _


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## geezer (May 3, 2016)

@futsaowingchun ...Hey Fut, did you ever train in a lineage where they used this method? One good thing about it, at the beginning at least, is that it helps you learn how to move efficiently with an opponent's force. Depending on the force you receive, there is absolutely a right way and a wrong way to deal with it. The "sets" put you in specific situations that you might not otherwise get into very often with your classmates when doing random chi-sau and they teach you the most efficient solution to a given "problem".

This is a good idea, to start with. The problem is that if you teach a _concept-oriented _approach (which I strongly believe in), you should eventually move past the need for this kind of scripting and be able to figure out ...or _feel _your way out on your own.


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## wckf92 (May 4, 2016)

geezer said:


> I can't remember what I had for breakfast and you ask me that!? Jeez, let's see... Chi sau sets alone? ....Seven sets for SNT and Chum Kiu. Those I've got down pretty well, then another batch for Biu Tze ...which I seldom get to practice in their entirety since my students aren't up to that point, then some wooden dummy sets which I don't get to do except when I'm visiting other sifus... so I'm perpetually foggy on that stuff.
> 
> For those of you who don't train "Chi Sau Sections" here's an example from some former WT guys who do something pretty similar to what we train. Actually darn similar since it all comes from LT's WT and Kernspecht's EWTO curriculum. Notice that it's actually a pretty complex and scripted series of exchanges:
> 
> ...



Hmm, interesting. Thanks. Sorry to drift off topic with this.
So, are there corresponding leg sets too? And, did LT create these and inject them into his overall curriculum?


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## geezer (May 4, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Hmm, interesting. Thanks. Sorry to drift off topic with this.
> So, are there corresponding leg sets too? And, did LT create these and inject them into his overall curriculum?



LT created the basic curriculum back in the seventies. I was first exposed to it starting in 1980. In the following years it kept getting expanded and elaborated upon, especially by th EWTO group. And yes, they do train a lot of leg sets, but that's mostly in their "Lat-Sau" program. A bunch of soccer players, ya know. I just try to keep my feet on the ground and not fall over.


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## LFJ (May 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I want to learn about Wing Chun and get a bit an impression of what it's all about, like how the movements are
> and what the philosophy behind Wing Chun is



Well then, you will be very confused looking things up on Youtube. There are many lineages of Wing Chun and often what they do directly contradicts one another.

A better plan might be to do some research on what lineages there are and who belongs to what lineage. Then read about each, and then go further into whichever lineage you find interesting. Then once you get a general idea of what their about, move on to another.

This way you are not bouncing around between lineages without knowing it and confusing yourself with mixed ideas.


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## geezer (May 5, 2016)

In addition to doing a little background research as LFJ pointed out, see if anybody legit actually teaches a version of WC,VT,WT, etc. in your area. If you are lucky enough to find a school, or several different schools, go and visit a class. "Sifu Youtube" is no substitute for direct participation.


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Why does it sound as if all WC gurus are from Germany? Kernspecht sounds german. The Boztepe clip which I watched also had a german commentator.
Do they not have their own gurus in the USA? 

The problem which I see with studying WC lineages and such is that first of all I'm limited by what's even available to me. I can only go to places which are somewhere
in my area. This means even if there's a fantastic teacher too far away for me it doesn't help me.

What if for example a teacher doesn't have credentials or if you ask him who he learned under he just gives you a name of some other guy who nobody heard of. Then
what? Does this mean that you can already forget about someone like that who learned under Joe Blow?


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> The problem which I see with studying WC lineages and such is that first of all I'm limited by what's even available to me. I can only go to places which are somewhere
> in my area. This means even if there's a fantastic teacher too far away for me it doesn't help me.
> 
> What if for example a teacher doesn't have credentials or if you ask him who he learned under he just gives you a name of some other guy who nobody heard of. Then
> what? Does this mean that you can already forget about someone like that who learned under Joe Blow?



No. That has nothing to do with anything. If the teacher is a "nobody", not particularly "famous"...so what? If he can teach you how to defend yourself, who cares who he learned from.


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Yes but who do I know if his stuff is good or not? How shall I be able to find out about this without training in his school for years and then realizing that his stuff sucked?
That's really scary. 

If you hire a personal trainer at a gym then you can quickly tell if you get stronger or leaner. But this is something entirely different. Here you can basically waste years and years
on a bad teacher. 

For me this whole thing only makes sense if I feel like the stuff which I learn is good and correct otherwise I'll always have doubts.


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Yes but who do I know if his stuff is good or not? How shall I be able to find out about this without training in his school for years and then realizing that his stuff sucked?
> That's really scary.
> 
> If you hire a personal trainer at a gym then you can quickly tell if you get stronger or leaner. But this is something entirely different. Here you can basically waste years and years
> ...



Then ask the instructor if you can attack him any way you want...and see what happens. 
You can also analyze the students he/she has produced.


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## kehcorpz (May 12, 2016)

Hm, do instructors usually do this?

But even if he can fend off my attacks this doesn't really mean much either, does it?

How shall I analyze the students? If I can't tell if the teacher is good then it's the same with the students. I can watch them and still
have no freaking clue if they are good or not. This is really a huge problem.
Basically any teacher can just rip me off pretending his stuff is good and effective. And of course whatever he does will look really good.
It's the same issue as with the video clip from a self defense dvd. I made a thread about it. It looks totally impressive when you watch it
but obviously it's not that great. (What's your opinion about this SD sequence?).

In order to tell if a teacher is good or not you needed to see him in a real fight. Then you'd get a glimpse of how good his stuff really is. 
I guess if you have enough money you could just hire a few guys to wait for him outside of the dojo lol.
If he loses you can directly take off and check out another school.


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## futsaowingchun (May 16, 2016)

geezer said:


> @futsaowingchun ...Hey Fut, did you ever train in a lineage where they used this method? One good thing about it, at the beginning at least, is that it helps you learn how to move efficiently with an opponent's force. Depending on the force you receive, there is absolutely a right way and a wrong way to deal with it. The "sets" put you in specific situations that you might not otherwise get into very often with your classmates when doing random chi-sau and they teach you the most efficient solution to a given "problem".
> 
> This is a good idea, to start with. The problem is that if you teach a _concept-oriented _approach (which I strongly believe in), you should eventually move past the need for this kind of scripting and be able to figure out ...or _feel _your way out on your own.



No, I don't agree about training chi sao sets.. i do teach basic techniques like tan da, Lop sao etc but not in any particular order or sets...just to get them started. Everyone is differnt so after you learn the basics  it's up to you how you do your chi sao otherwise you create robots not individuals.  What works for me might not work for you. Each person has to find their own way to personalize their wing chun..Wing Chun is not a paint by numbers..So that's my philosophy about Wing chun or any other MA.


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## futsaowingchun (May 17, 2016)

geezer said:


> In addition to doing a little background research as LFJ pointed out, see if anybody legit actually teaches a version of WC,VT,WT, etc. in your area. If you are lucky enough to find a school, or several different schools, go and visit a class. "Sifu Youtube" is no substitute for direct participation.


  Sifu " YouTube" love that. ..I might have to steel it from you..


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## Old Judoka (May 23, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> haha then at first stay away from everything of the ewto (european win tsun organisation) and this kernspecht guy, this is just for ripping off people. i don't know a specific youtuber, but if you google for the "fight quest" episode about wing chun, you get a good first look on the principles.



Loved that fight quest episode. Is that show still on? I loved watching Doug with Avavit Cohen in the Krav Maga episode. Psycho-woman, LOL


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## Juany118 (Jun 4, 2016)

I'll be honest.  I don't think I have seen any channels that are good to learn from.  I have seen some that are good as supplemental material but these then end up being a choice as to what you feel you need to supplement on.  The problem is most channels I found are showing you how to use different techniques but in different circumstances BUT don't tell you how the foundations.  Example they show you how to deflect a blow with a Tan Sau but they don't usually talk about the importance of the angle of you Tan.  They talk about the importance of structure but often don't explain in detail how to do it or maintain it while doing footwork.

However videos by various people are good in helping you take what you learn in a class, where the Sifu can correct your issues, and show you how to apply it in dynamic real life situations.  This is where what you need supplementation comes in because different videos have different attitudes as to how the techniques should be applied, classically?  down and dirty? Etc.


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## Paul_D (Jun 13, 2016)

Have you tried Master Wong?

Wing Chun Tai Chi JKD - Master Wong


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Hm, do instructors usually do this?
> 
> But even if he can fend off my attacks this doesn't really mean much either, does it?
> 
> ...


I suggest you simply remain frozen with indecision.  Face it, you aren't really cut out for this stuff.


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## kehcorpz (Jun 13, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Have you tried Master Wong?
> 
> Wing Chun Tai Chi JKD - Master Wong



yes i know him. but he doesn't have many instructional videos where he really teaches wing chun techniques. he focuses me on real fight situtations and what do to.

but i watched one video where you showed his dojo and it looked really impressive. one guy was standing on a huge gymnastic ball balancing all the time and at the same time he was doing punches. i don't know if they do stuff like this in other places.


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