# Do you believe our souls have lived other lives?



## Lisa

I had a very interesting conversation with someone who works in an adjoining department today.  She is a trained therapist who helps people who suffer from traumatic stress disorder, etc.

We started talking about our phobias and I explained to her that the only real fear I have experienced has to do with mountains and driving up into them when it is cloudy.  My heart starts to palpitate and I have this overwhelming fear.  I am not sure what I am fearing, I only know that I don't like the feeling.  My rational side knows it isn't rational to fear such things, but the physical reaction I have to it is unbelievable.  I don't consider myself claustrophobic at all.  Nothing else bothers me.

Anyways...she told me that because it is a precise fear and the fact that I only react to those precise conditions that she is convinced I had a previous life experience that has caused me to carry this fear into my present day life and that I will continue to carry this fear/phobia with me until I go back in time and face what has caused this in me.

Now, I am not a big believer in such stuff but I listened because I did find the whole thing rather fascinating and intriguing.  Now, I am not ready to allow anyone to help me "regress" back into a previous life and truthfully, I live in what is quite possibly the flattest land on earth and only visit the mountains every couple of years (so no need to really face anything  ), but she is bringing me some literature on past life regression, etc. and I am looking forward to reading about it.

So, does anyone believe that they have lived a past life?  That their soul once lived another life, or is it all a bunch of hooey?


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## pstarr

I don't buy into the "many lives" theories - I've studied the subject extensively but the arguements for it seem to be rather weak...


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## Bob Hubbard

Yes.

====
Through a Glass, Darkly
General George Patton

Through the travail of the ages,
Midst the pomp and toil of war,
Have I fought and strove and perished
Countless times upon this star.

In the form of many people
In all panoplies of time
Have I seen the luring vision
Of the Victory Maid, sublime.

I have battled for fresh mammoth,
I have warred for pastures new,
I have listed to the whispers
When the race trek instinct grew.

I have known the call to battle
In each changeless changing shape
From the high souled voice of conscience
To the beastly lust for rape.

I have sinned and I have suffered,
Played the hero and the knave;
Fought for belly, shame, or country,
And for each have found a grave.

I cannot name my battles
For the visions are not clear,
Yet, I see the twisted faces
And I feel the rending spear.

Perhaps I stabbed our Savior
In His sacred helpless side.
Yet, I've called His name in blessing
When after times I died.

In the dimness of the shadows
Where we hairy heathens warred,
I can taste in thought the lifeblood;
We used teeth before the sword.

While in later clearer vision
I can sense the coppery sweat,
Feel the pikes grow wet and slippery
When our Phalanx, Cyrus met.

Hear the rattle of the harness
Where the Persian darts bounced clear,
See their chariots wheel in panic
From the Hoplite's leveled spear.

See the goal grow monthly longer,
Reaching for the walls of Tyre.
Hear the crash of tons of granite,
Smell the quenchless eastern fire.

Still more clearly as a Roman,
Can I see the Legion close,
As our third rank moved in forward
And the short sword found our foes.

Once again I feel the anguish
Of that blistering treeless plain
When the Parthian showered death bolts,
And our discipline was in vain.

I remember all the suffering
Of those arrows in my neck.
Yet, I stabbed a grinning savage
As I died upon my back.

Once again I smell the heat sparks
When my Flemish plate gave way
And the lance ripped through my entrails
As on Crecy's field I lay.

In the windless, blinding stillness
Of the glittering tropic sea
I can see the bubbles rising
Where we set the captives free.

Midst the spume of half a tempest
I have heard the bulwarks go
When the crashing, point blank round shot
Sent destruction to our foe.

I have fought with gun and cutlass
On the red and slippery deck
With all Hell aflame within me
And a rope around my neck.

And still later as a General
Have I galloped with Murat
When we laughed at death and numbers
Trusting in the Emperor's Star.

Till at last our star faded,
And we shouted to our doom
Where the sunken road of Ohein
Closed us in it's quivering gloom.

So but now with Tanks a'clatter
Have I waddled on the foe
Belching death at twenty paces,
By the star shell's ghastly glow.

So as through a glass, and darkly*
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

And I see not in my blindness
What the objects were I wrought,
But as God rules o'er our bickerings
It was through His will I fought.

So forever in the future,
Shall I battle as of yore,
Dying to be born a fighter,
But to die again, once more.


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## Lisa

pstarr said:
			
		

> I don't buy into the "many lives" theories - I've studied the subject extensively but the arguements for it seem to be rather weak...



What arguements do you mean?  What do you mean, studied it extensively?  Please explain.


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## Jonathan Randall

Well, I had a supervisor once who I was convinced, at the time, was a reincarnation of Elizabeth Bathory.

Seriously, though, I don't know how you'd take your memories with you. After all, memories are made up of the structure of the brain - think of alzheimer's (degeneration of the brain that, among other things, causes memory to fail).

OTOH, ...


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## Hand Sword

Very interesting. Something that neither side can prove in their arguments. I say go to a hypnotist, and regress and find out for yourself.


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## Lisa

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Very interesting. Something that neither side can prove in their arguments. I say go to a hypnotist, and regress and find out for yourself.



Nah...like I said, I live where it is very flat.  The fear/phobia or whatever it is doesn't show itself very often, so I am good.


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## Carol

I believe in reincarnation, personally.  That, at the end of my life, the cycle of births and deaths will be stopped and my soul reaches the Almighty.  Or, I didn't learn enough and I'm sent back to the mortal world to try again.  I hope it's the former.  

I don't necessarily know that I have had past lives, or if I do, whether they were human.  However my soul got here it is in my body now, and it has a path to walk.  The path that I seek is one that moves forward, not back.


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## Hand Sword

Lisa said:
			
		

> Nah...like I said, I live where it is very flat. The fear/phobia or whatever it is doesn't show itself very often, so I am good.


 
Cool. Do it for fun then. Can't hurt.


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## MA-Caver

Recommended movie... A romantic comedy by the name of "Defending Your Life" starring Albert Brooks, Meryl Streep and Rip Torn http://imdb.com/title/tt0101698/

It's an interesting look at the idea of life after-death... plus it's a ticklish movie.
Here are some quotes from it... 

Julia: [explaining how she died] We went to visit some friends for the weekend. Everybody wanted to go into town, but I wanted to stay at the house and go swimming. So I went outside, tripped over the chaise lounge, hit my head on the cement and rolled into the pool.
Daniel Miller: What did the East German judge give you? 

Daniel Miller: Is this Heaven?
Bob Diamond: No, it isn't Heaven.
Daniel Miller: Is it Hell?
Bob Diamond: Nope, it isn't Hell either. Actually, there is no Hell. Although I hear Los Angeles is getting pretty close. 

The movie is basically about living your life and dying and then moving on if you qualify... if you qualify your brain power increases among other things... 
Bob Diamond: For example, I use forty-eight percent of my brain. Do you know how much you use?
Daniel Miller: Forty... seven?
Bob Diamond: [laughs] Three.  

A good movie... three shruikens... check it out.


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## Bob Hubbard

Not afraid of death....just poodles for some reason.


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## Hand Sword

Regular or miniature?


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## Blindside

I don't believe in a soul, so no, but thanks to this thread I've got an old Indigo Girls song stuck in my head....

Galileo
Galileo's head was on the block
the crime was looking up for truth
and as the bombshells of my daily fears explode
I try to trace them to my youth

And then you had to bring up reincarnation
over a couple of beers the other night
and now I'm serving time for mistakes
made by another in another lifetime

How long till my soul gets it right
can any human being ever reach that kind of light
I call on the resting soul of galileo
king of night vision, king of insight

And then I think about my fear of motion
which I never could explain
some other fool across the ocean years ago
must have crashed his little airplane

How long till my soul gets it right
can any human being ever reach that kind of light
I call on the resting soul of galileo
king of night vision, king of insight

I'm not making a joke, you know me
I take everything so seriously
if we wait for the time till all souls get it right
then at least I know there'll be no nuclear annihilation
in my lifetime I'm still not right

I offer thanks to those before me
that's all I've got to say
'cause maybe you squandered big bucks in your lifetime
now I have to pay
but then again it feels like some sort of inspiration
to let the next life off the hook
but she'll say "look what I had to overcome from my last life
I think I'll write a book"

How long till my soul gets it right
can any human being ever reach the highest light
except for Galileo God rest his soul
(except for the resting soul of Galileo) 
king of night vision, king of insight

How long
(till my soul gets it right) 
[til we reach the highest light] 
how long
(till my soul gets it right) 
[til we reach the highest light] 
how long


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## Flatlander

I think that if there is a connection to an event that has occurred, it doesn't necessarily follow that _it_ was in the past, nor that there is any continuity between _it_ and "I", or "you", per se....


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## pstarr

Lisa said:
			
		

> What arguements do you mean? What do you mean, studied it extensively? Please explain.


 
     For instance, the idea that one must keep going through the cycle of birth and death to work off the bad karms that has been accumulated and so forth- such an argument is illogical.

     I mean, if you're not consciously aware that you've accumulated this "bad karma" how can you really put forth any genuine effort into ridding yourself of it?  It's rather like punishing a dog a week after he piddled on the floor.  He has no memory of what he did and doesn't understand why he's being punished...


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## Kensai

How would certain scientific arguments about time not necessarily being a linear event, but a figure 8 influence this topic? Could that have any affect on people experiencing de ja vue, past life regression, the feeling of having "been here/somewhere before"? Who knows. Just thought I'd chuck that in.


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## MartialIntent

Lisa said:
			
		

> So, does anyone believe that they have lived a past life? That their soul once lived another life, or is it all a bunch of hooey?


Lisa, this is interesting. Personally I don't believe I've been around before though I don't entirely support the idea that we're nothing more than lumps of bone and gristle walking around either. Naturally I have no evidence for that, but one thing that always puzzles me - in the same vein as what your therapist friend was discussing - is deja vu which I'd have fairly frequently. And of course, that being a phenomenon that would seem to have no physiological explanation. Your phobia situation is unusual but then phobias generally _do_ defy rationality. I wonder does anyone else in your family have the same? I ask because I am an adoptee, having been reunited with my birth mother a few years back. And having not known her for the 28 years previous it was a little uncanny amongst all the revelations that she and I shared the same peculiar phobia.

Of course if we've no recall of past lives _at all_, that maybe doesn't bode well for supporters of reincarnation. I've always thought, what's the point of being reincarnated for the sake of karmic levelling if we don't consciously know we're reincarnated? The question is, if you *did* come back again, would you want to come back as yourself?

Respects!


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## Drac

Kensai said:
			
		

> Could that have any affect on people experiencing de ja vue, past life regression, the feeling of having "been here/somewhere before"? Who knows. Just thought I'd chuck that in.


 
Ya beat me to *Kensai*..This has happened too many times to me..


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## OnlyAnEgg

I believe it's entirely possible that I (we) have been here before.  I have countless experiences of deja vu and, in a more defining sense, experiences where I've met someone and discover the feeling that I've known them forever.  Although, science has provided some explanation for this type of events, it seems reincarnation is a much simpler answer.


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## Kensai

Drac said:
			
		

> Ya beat me to *Kensai*..This has happened too many times to me..


 
Likewise mate, likewise. :asian:


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## heretic888

Lisa said:
			
		

> So, does anyone believe that they have lived a past life? That their soul once lived another life, or is it all a bunch of hooey?


 
I have no idea.

However, I have to point out one of the more amusing things about proponents of reincarnation is the alarming number of female adherents that are absolutely convinced they are reincarnations of Mary Magdalene, Joan of Arc, or one of the Victorian queens of England.

That has no bearing on the validity of the idea, of course, but I just think it's funny that there are several dozen reincarnations of Joan of Arc running around the earth all at once. 

Laterz.


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## heretic888

pstarr said:
			
		

> For instance, the idea that one must keep going through the cycle of birth and death to work off the bad karms that has been accumulated and so forth- such an argument is illogical.
> 
> I mean, if you're not consciously aware that you've accumulated this "bad karma" how can you really put forth any genuine effort into ridding yourself of it? It's rather like punishing a dog a week after he piddled on the floor. He has no memory of what he did and doesn't understand why he's being punished...


 
If you are going by how the system is actually described in Indian philosophy, then the aforementioned explanation is hogwash.

Within the Indian religious complex, "karma" is not some type of punitive retaliation or reward dished out by a personal Other. Rather, it is a universal law of cause and effect. Even the gods are subject to karma in Indian religion.

I don't know if I buy into the concept myself, but it does no good to anthropomorphize the process to bring it in alignment with Western religious ideas.

Laterz.


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## mrhnau

heretic888 said:
			
		

> That has no bearing on the validity of the idea, of course, but I just think it's funny that there are several dozen reincarnations of Joan of Arc running around the earth all at once.



My opinion on the whole topic is that you are not reincarneted. Like Heretic, I do find it ironic that people who are reincarneted tend to recall being someone famous. Why happened to the millions of potato farmers in the past? Janitors/Sanitation engineers? Is everyone Joan of Arc? Ceasar? Why so many generals and so few foot soldiers?

Another interesting point... are souls created, or do we have a limited quantity? If they are not created, then the amount of life forms having souls should be decreasing as a function of time, right? Since some eventually get to go on to nirvana? Is there a decrease in life forms present on Earth? And how did the cycles begin? What if the earth is destroyed in some fashion?


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## heretic888

mrhnau said:
			
		

> Since some eventually get to go on to nirvana?


 
Minor point here. . .

"Nirvana" is a Buddhist concept, not a Hindu one. Buddhism doesn't accept transmigration of the "soul" per se in that Buddhism does not accept the existence of a "soul" in the first place (this is the concept of anatta, or "non-self"). What reincarnates in Buddhist philosophy might be considered a collective of impulses and energies, but not a distinct personality or "self".

That being said, in Mahayana Buddhism once you're Enlightened (or realize you were always Enlightened anways), you're still supposed to "come back". This is part of the Bodhisattva Vow, that one cannot accept the release of nirvana until ALL sentient beings, without exception, also realize this.

Laterz.


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## Rich Parsons

Lisa said:
			
		

> I had a very interesting conversation with someone who works in an adjoining department today. She is a trained therapist who helps people who suffer from traumatic stress disorder, etc.
> 
> We started talking about our phobias and I explained to her that the only real fear I have experienced has to do with mountains and driving up into them when it is cloudy. My heart starts to palpitate and I have this overwhelming fear. I am not sure what I am fearing, I only know that I don't like the feeling. My rational side knows it isn't rational to fear such things, but the physical reaction I have to it is unbelievable. I don't consider myself claustrophobic at all. Nothing else bothers me.
> 
> Anyways...she told me that because it is a precise fear and the fact that I only react to those precise conditions that she is convinced I had a previous life experience that has caused me to carry this fear into my present day life and that I will continue to carry this fear/phobia with me until I go back in time and face what has caused this in me.
> 
> Now, I am not a big believer in such stuff but I listened because I did find the whole thing rather fascinating and intriguing. Now, I am not ready to allow anyone to help me "regress" back into a previous life and truthfully, I live in what is quite possibly the flattest land on earth and only visit the mountains every couple of years (so no need to really face anything  ), but she is bringing me some literature on past life regression, etc. and I am looking forward to reading about it.
> 
> So, does anyone believe that they have lived a past life? That their soul once lived another life, or is it all a bunch of hooey?




Lisa,

While I cannot prove past lives did not exist, I also listen and ponder.

As to fears, and phobias, the fear of heights is considered the only hardwired phobia. As babies with no other input can react to being held up, while others do no react. Others are taught fears (* According to what I read *), either through our parents or our culture, or through personal experience. 

The Clouds is a lack of visibility. 

The Mountains are heights.

Combine the two and you get a situation where you could drive off the mountain and fall. I say it this way as in other conditions such as airplanes or ferris wheels you might feel in control or like there is enough normal conditions for you to not see the fall as most likely happening. While driving blind in the mountains does cause a fear reaction. 

More on this later.


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## Bigshadow

Yes, sort of...  I believe when one dies their energy goes back to the collective of the cosmos to change state yet again.  Just as the animal dies on the plains and the energy of their body feeds the grass that feeds other animals which gives birth to new life.  It is a circle.  However, I am not convinced there any individuality of this energy in the collective (cosmos), so I am inclined to disbelieve "Past experiences" association.  However, my beliefs can change as I gather more information.


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## JBrainard

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Well, I had a supervisor once who I was convinced, at the time, was a reincarnation of Elizabeth Bathory.


 
That's unnerving.


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## Kensai

heretic888 said:
			
		

> I have no idea.
> 
> However, I have to point out one of the more amusing things about proponents of reincarnation is the alarming number of female adherents that are absolutely convinced they are reincarnations of Mary Magdalene, Joan of Arc, or one of the Victorian queens of England.
> 
> *That has no bearing on the validity of the idea, of course, but I just think it's funny that there are several dozen reincarnations of Joan of Arc running around the earth all at once. *
> 
> Laterz.


 
I've had the same thought, although, while I don't pretend to have "been here before", I don't believe I was anybody famous, but I cannot escape the realisation that on a few occasions throughout my life, something, somewhere, someone.... is... known to me. I'm not trying to legitimise the concept of reincarnation, the soul etc, but I also cannot dismiss the possibility of the spiritual out of hand. 

More and more I'm finding the MA that I study, while certainly not developing the spiritual within me, don't hinder it. It's (a sense of the spiritual) also becoming more and more important to me. I feel the need to develop it, without knowing why. It's not a want, it is a need. Hmmm...


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## Lisa

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Lisa,
> 
> While I cannot prove past lives did not exist, I also listen and ponder.
> 
> As to fears, and phobias, the fear of heights is considered the only hardwired phobia. As babies with no other input can react to being held up, while others do no react. Others are taught fears (* According to what I read *), either through our parents or our culture, or through personal experience.
> 
> The Clouds is a lack of visibility.
> 
> The Mountains are heights.
> 
> * Combine the two and you get a situation where you could drive off the mountain and fall. I say it this way as in other conditions such as airplanes or ferris wheels you might feel in control or like there is enough normal conditions for you to not see the fall as most likely happening. While driving blind in the mountains does cause a fear reaction. *
> 
> More on this later.



Bingo!  I think you hit the nail on the head.  Anyone who knows me (and loves me ) knows I don't give up control of myself easily.  

As for the "past lives", premonitions and the de ja vu's, I must say I am skeptical.  However, I will share this. 

All my life I had dreamed, imagined, or whatever that when I was married I would have two children and they would both be girls.  I had a recurring dream of being in a bedroom and talking to these "two girls" as if they were my children.  I could not distinctly make out their faces but one was a redhead and one was a blonde.  We were sitting on the bed talking, not sure about what, but that doesn't really matter.  What is weird is a little over a year ago we decided to sell our home and move.  My "dejavu" hit me like a ton of bricks as I sat there talking to my daughters about where we would be moving, etc.  I knew I had been there before and I was literally overwhelmed by the experience.  It was probably the strongest dejavu I had ever had.  BTW, my youngest daughter is blond and my oldest is a redhead. 

Too weird....


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## Kensai

Lisa said:
			
		

> Bingo! I think you hit the nail on the head. Anyone who knows me (and loves me ) knows I don't give up control of myself easily.
> 
> As for the "past lives", premonitions and the de ja vu's, I must say I am skeptical. However, I will share this.
> 
> All my life I had dreamed, imagined, or whatever that when I was married I would have two children and they would both be girls. I had a recurring dream of being in a bedroom and talking to these "two girls" as if they were my children. I could not distinctly make out their faces but one was a redhead and one was a blonde. We were sitting on the bed talking, not sure about what, but that doesn't really matter. What is weird is a little over a year ago we decided to sell our home and move. My "dejavu" hit me like a ton of bricks as I sat there talking to my daughters about where we would be moving, etc. I knew I had been there before and I was literally overwhelmed by the experience. It was probably the strongest dejavu I had ever had. BTW, my youngest daughter is blond and my oldest is a redhead.
> 
> *Too weird*....


 
Important words. Not weird, just... inexplicable? Trying to find a logical suggestion for that kind of experience is going to be difficult, as it isn't really quantifiable. Some people will always be skeptical, and that's great, others, may have a more open mind/approach to questions such as this. I, as ever, fall somewhere between the two.


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## Flying Crane

It's something that I like to believe, but I have no proof.


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## Bob Hubbard

Everything that will be, already was.
Everything that once was, will be again.


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## JBrainard

pstarr said:
			
		

> For instance, the idea that one must keep going through the cycle of birth and death to work off the bad karms that has been accumulated and so forth- such an argument is illogical.
> 
> I mean, if you're not consciously aware that you've accumulated this "bad karma" how can you really put forth any genuine effort into ridding yourself of it? It's rather like punishing a dog a week after he piddled on the floor. He has no memory of what he did and doesn't understand why he's being punished...


 
That's a lot like the fundamentalist Christians who believe that you are going to hell if you don't accept Jesus as your personal saviour. What if you were never exposed to Christianity? I guess you're screwed, then.


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## JBrainard

MartialIntent said:
			
		

> ...one thing that always puzzles me - in the same vein as what your therapist friend was discussing - is deja vu which I'd have fairly frequently. And of course, that being a phenomenon that would seem to have no physiological explanation.


 
Not true. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu#Scientific_research


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## JBrainard

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> Yes, sort of... I believe when one dies their energy goes back to the collective of the cosmos to change state yet again. Just as the animal dies on the plains and the energy of their body feeds the grass that feeds other animals which gives birth to new life. It is a circle. However, I am not convinced there any individuality of this energy in the collective (cosmos), so I am inclined to disbelieve "Past experiences" association. However, my beliefs can change as I gather more information.


 
Cool! That's pretty much what I believe!


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## JBrainard

Lisa said:
			
		

> All my life I had dreamed, imagined, or whatever that when I was married I would have two children and they would both be girls. I had a recurring dream of being in a bedroom and talking to these "two girls" as if they were my children. I could not distinctly make out their faces but one was a redhead and one was a blonde. We were sitting on the bed talking, not sure about what, but that doesn't really matter. What is weird is a little over a year ago we decided to sell our home and move. My "dejavu" hit me like a ton of bricks as I sat there talking to my daughters about where we would be moving, etc. I knew I had been there before and I was literally overwhelmed by the experience. It was probably the strongest dejavu I had ever had. BTW, my youngest daughter is blond and my oldest is a redhead.
> 
> Too weird....


 
Not so weird. My wife has precognative dreams at least once a year. I've gotten used to it.


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## Kensai

JBrainard said:
			
		

> Not true. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu#Scientific_research



That was cool. I have those "jolts" described as mild epileptic episodes a few times a month. Always before I drift off to sleep. Only when I'm going through a stressy period too.


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## JBrainard

Kensai said:
			
		

> That was cool. I have those "jolts" described as mild epileptic episodes a few times a month. Always before I drift off to sleep. Only when I'm going through a stressy period too.


 
FYI, epilepctic episodes and stress are VERY much related. I know this because my wife's best friend is epileptic and I hear about all of the medical stuff.


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## Kensai

JBrainard said:
			
		

> FYI, epilepctic episodes and stress are VERY much related. I know this because my wife's best friend is epileptic and I hear about all of the medical stuff.



Thanks for that mate, would explain a lot. Am going though a house sale, a 7 months pregnant partner, doing a uni course in spare time, and working on a managerial team that's worse than any bear pit, and looking after a 10 year old step daughter. Aahh... I love it really.


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## Lisa

JBrainard said:
			
		

> Not so weird. My wife has precognative dreams at least once a year. I've gotten used to it.



That is very fascinating.  So your wifes dreams come to be reality?  Are they focused on highly emotional events or are they, as mine was, just everyday things?


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## JBrainard

Lisa said:
			
		

> That is very fascinating. So your wifes dreams come to be reality? Are they focused on highly emotional events or are they, as mine was, just everyday things?


 
If my memory serves me (we've been married 9 years) they are allways focused on highly emotional events. You could argue that it is just her subconcious telling her things, but she also has the ability to "read" people just by looking at them (no speaking required). Given how accurate ALL of her "reads" on people are, I honestly think that she has some ESP.


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## Lisa

JBrainard said:
			
		

> If my memory serves me (we've been married 9 years) they are allways focused on highly emotional events. You could argue that it is just her subconcious telling her things, but she also has the ability to "read" people just by looking at them (no speaking required). Given how accurate ALL of her "reads" on people are, I honestly think that she has some ESP.



My family calls me "The grim reaper."  

One more then one occasion I had the overwhelming desire to be at the hospital when a loved one was waiting to pass on.  I can't explain it but I just "knew" when they were going to go and I felt drawn to be by their side when they left this world.  It was so strong with both my grandparents that I even knew what hour they were going to pass.  I know, I know, you all may think I am a bit "out there" but I just can't explain the over powering sensation as if they were calling me to be there and to take care of other family members and let the other family members know that they were okay and at peace.

My husband used to find it creepy.  Now he just knows it is part of who I am


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## JBrainard

Lisa said:
			
		

> My family calls me "The grim reaper."
> 
> One more then one occasion I had the overwhelming desire to be at the hospital when a loved one was waiting to pass on. I can't explain it but I just "knew" when they were going to go and I felt drawn to be by their side when they left this world. It was so strong with both my grandparents that I even knew what hour they were going to pass. I know, I know, you all may think I am a bit "out there" but I just can't explain the over powering sensation as if they were calling me to be there and to take care of other family members and let the other family members know that they were okay and at peace.
> 
> My husband used to find it creepy. Now he just knows it is part of who I am


 
I don't think you are "out there" at all, but then I'm biased 

Oh, yeah. I can relate to your husband


----------



## Cruentus

Hi Lisa,

I think you can tell your friend that she's ko-koo for Cocoa-Puffs.

I'm not going to get much into the metaphysical/philosophical aspects of reincarnation online, but I will mention that by observing the rejenitive/cycle aspects of nature, it is not completely odd that certain cultures and religions would formulate ideas of reincarnation. And considering that matter has "memory", it is not completely odd that people would have these beliefs today; although the notion of 'past lives' is a giant leap from watching a physical representation of memory in matter, such as the regeneration of muscle tissue for example.

My notion as to your friend being "a kook" mostly comes from the fact that she would use the modern psychoanalytical pseudo-theory of past life regression to try to cure phobias. Although such ideas have gotten attention in pop culture in recent years, most of these methods have been pretty well debunked, leaving no scientific validity to the idea of past lives.

The nominal success in therapy, arguably, could be attributed to the same reasons that psychodynamic therapy works today without the involvement of the notion of "past lives;" the basics steps being... 1. Find the cause of the pathology, with a belief that the phobia comes from repressed unconscious impulse, no matter how valid or arbitrary (blame a phobia on a past life, your mother, a bad experience in adolescents, etc.), 2. come up with a cognitive solution, no matter how valid or arbitrary (recreate a past life experience, call your mom and discuss an issue, or go back to the mountain you almost fell off of when you were 13 [maybe through hypnosis, or roleplaying, or even physically], etc.), 3. Then implement said solution in a convincing enough manner so that you believe the problem is fixed.

Bottom line is that with this therapy (which, conveniently can be time consuming and expensive) you can achieve some success depending on the problem; but this is regardless of how factual the "cause" of the pathology is. The cure involves in changing mindset and behavior to recondition the response; and this is only one of a variety of ways to achieve this.

The thing with phobia's, however, is that there are much easier, more direct ways in curing them. The Psychodynamic perspective tends to be much more drawn out and inefficient when it comes to changing basic behaviors and reactions, such as curing phobias, quiting smoking, etc.

A more direct approach that a non-kook might suggest would be to take a behavioral approach. The exact origin of the phobia is both subjective and incidental; the important thing is that 1. It is irrational, and 2. It is a conditioned response. Using simple, operant conditioning methods can recondition the response in about 60-90 minutes for most phobias. The "exposure method" (gradual, calculated exposure to the phobia in a controlled setting) seems to get the most reliable results.

But, hey, a cure in 60-90 minutes? Naw, that's way too easy. Better to spend therapy session after therapy session at $150 a pop wondering if reincarnation is real... 

Paul Janulis


----------



## Cruentus

Some ramblings on to ESP, and other craziness for anyone interested....

A Psych prof once told me that many of us are cyborgs. I told him that he better not tell anyone else that, or I will punch him with my bionic arm (lol). He said that no, seriously, it is true.

He then went to make the obvious point that wasn't immediately apparent to me; that many people have prostetic limbs, organ replacements, etc. We aren't far off, either, will we will be able to make replacements that function better then the originals; a factor that we may see in our lifetime.

The thing is, a lot of "weird" phenomenom is a fact of our daily life that we don't even recognize. THink of all the things that would be considered "sci-fi" in the 50's that are facts of life today... 

Stuff like ESP, telepathy, and so forth fall into the same category of things that we have and do but don't understand, so we always look to metaphysical reasoning to explain it when sometimes solutions are right in our faces. 

Something like ESP.... couldn't it be something that we all have? Most would agree that we all have it to a degree. But what is it? All it is is "extra-sensory" perception. Take out the "ES" and we are left with what it really is....perception. Considering that things like mood, thought, and physical states all release measurable energy, isn't it possible that "ESP" experiences are just a perception of these? Couldn't someone having a particularly intuitive moment percieve things about a persons appearance and behavior that may seem out of our grasps of reality, when really at that moment it came to them as simply as seeing the color of a tee-shirt or feeling the air temperature?

I once worked with an autistic kid who was afraid of thunderstorms, and who always knew when there would be one within 24 hours, without checking the weather report. Didn't matter what the temperature or conditions outside were, he just "knew." Mystical and unexplainable? Or is he just highly perceptive to weather patterns using what he biologically has available?

I think most of this stuff is highly explainable, even if we don't have enough data to explain it yet; but I also think that most people would rather blame it on something superstitious, or deny that these things exist at all...

Paul Janulis


----------



## JBrainard

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Something like ESP.... couldn't it be something that we all have? Most would agree that we all have it to a degree. But what is it? All it is is "extra-sensory" perception. Take out the "ES" and we are left with what it really is....perception. Considering that things like mood, thought, and physical states all release measurable energy, isn't it possible that "ESP" experiences are just a perception of these? Couldn't someone having a particularly intuitive moment percieve things about a persons appearance and behavior that may seem out of our grasps of reality, when really at that moment it came to them as simply as seeing the color of a tee-shirt or feeling the air temperature?


 
Actually, I completely agree with you. I don't think my wife is "magical" or something stupid like that. There has to be a scientific explanation for it. Like you said, we just don't know what that explanation is yet.
And we may never be able to explain it.
I can't remember what Steven Hawking called it, but he had this theory that there existed an equation that would explain everything in the universe. I believe this is true. But, as Steven pointed out, the human race may not be _meant_ to understand it. For if you fully understand the universe in all of it's complexity, you will know the past and the future, which, as I'm sure you know, is a paradox.


----------



## Cruentus

JBrainard said:
			
		

> Actually, I completely agree with you.


 
I figured that most people taking part in this discussion would; my critique on those looking for mysterious answers is directed more towards...the others.....out there.... (in plays twilight zone theme)


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Paul, didn't we hang out together in Atlantis?


----------



## Lisa

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Not afraid of death....just poodles for some reason.



heh heh heh  :EG:  you are a smart man


----------



## Lisa

JBrainard said:
			
		

> Actually, I completely agree with you. I don't think my wife is "magical" or something stupid like that. There has to be a scientific explanation for it. Like you said, we just don't know what that explanation is yet.
> And we may never be able to explain it.
> I can't remember what Steven Hawking called it, but he had this theory that there existed an equation that would explain everything in the universe. I believe this is true. But, as Steven pointed out, the human race may not be _meant_ to understand it. For if you fully understand the universe in all of it's complexity, you will know the past and the future, which, as I'm sure you know, is a paradox.



I don't think myself "magical" either.  I just think I am more in tune with my senses. 

Paul brings up a lot of good points.  I believe that we only use approximately 2-3% of our brain power, the other 97% must be capable of something


----------



## Cruentus

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Paul, didn't we hang out together in Atlantis?


 
Isn't "Atlantis" the name of one of your sci-fi girlfriends? No...no...must of been someone else... at one of those "convention after parties" :lol:


----------



## Jenna

reincarnation is an anomaly.. it does occur though it is not -supposed- to happen which is why sometimes it is accompanied with incredible recall (no NOT Jeanne D'Arc, pffft) and but more often there is NO recall simply because the phenomenon is by accident and not by design.. however that is a matter for your own belief.. WTH do I know.. 

Be good,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Lisa

Jenna said:
			
		

> reincarnation is an anomaly.. it does occur though it is not -supposed- to happen which is why sometimes it is accompanied with incredible recall (no NOT Jeanne D'Arc, pffft) and but more often there is NO recall simply because the phenomenon is by accident and not by design.. however that is a matter for your own belief.. WTH do I know..
> 
> Be good,
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna



Intersting theory Jeanne D'Arc...I mean...Jenna ,  how have you come to this conclusion that it is by accident.  I am intrigued by your statments.


----------



## Jenna

Lisa said:
			
		

> Intersting theory Jeanne D'Arc...I mean...Jenna , how have you come to this conclusion that it is by accident. I am intrigued by your statments.


Hey Lisa my clever fixer upper  well now I am thinking should I say to you why I REALLY think these things and make a big fool of myself even more of a fool than I am in peoples eyes anyway?? ahh I think not.. 

but instead I will give you a little tidbit and say yes of course we have the first law of thermodynamics which shows us that energies can neither be created nor be destroyed but merely transfigured into other forms and but there are new forms and old forms and sometimes an old form is NOT COMPLETELY 100% transfigured into the new form but has residual energies outstanding.. just like when you fire your fancy rifle which I see you doing extremely well.. and so you will understand that NOT all the energy of the cartridge explosive or pressure of the gas or air whatever is used.. not all that propellant energy is transformed into momentum of the projectile.. some naturally is transformed into sound BANG! and some is heat which I am certain you will understand.. and well yes.. same goes for "souls" by whatever name you wish to refer to it.. yes same goes for souls at handover time.. sometimes not ALL the energy is transfigured 100% and that is the anomaly.. it is not sposd to happen that way.. that is the anomaly that is reincarnation ie. the sort of reincarnation where memories are retained.. of course reincarnation per se is what happens all the time but obviously with no recall, ha! now see? how crazy am I anyways? ahh but I am a harm to no one it is just ideas and I am just in one of my little playful moods and looking for someone to play with  

Be good 
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## stickarts

I don't have one firm belief but there seems to be such a cyclic pattern to so many things in nature and in the world that I wonder if our lives and death don't also follow full cycles which repeat?
Because we only have the 5 senses to perceive the world with and our understanding is still so limited its so hard to know. I guess thats why we resort to faith?


----------



## Rich Parsons

Jenna said:
			
		

> Hey Lisa my clever fixer upper  well now I am thinking should I say to you why I REALLY think these things and make a big fool of myself even more of a fool than I am in peoples eyes anyway?? ahh I think not..
> 
> but instead I will give you a little tidbit and say yes of course we have the first law of thermodynamics which shows us that energies can neither be created nor be destroyed but merely transfigured into other forms and but there are new forms and old forms and sometimes an old form is NOT COMPLETELY 100% transfigured into the new form but has residual energies outstanding.. just like when you fire your fancy rifle which I see you doing extremely well.. and so you will understand that NOT all the energy of the cartridge explosive or pressure of the gas or air whatever is used.. not all that propellant energy is transformed into momentum of the projectile.. some naturally is transformed into sound BANG! and some is heat which I am certain you will understand.. and well yes.. same goes for "souls" by whatever name you wish to refer to it.. yes same goes for souls at handover time.. sometimes not ALL the energy is transfigured 100% and that is the anomaly.. it is not sposd to happen that way.. that is the anomaly that is reincarnation ie. the sort of reincarnation where memories are retained.. of course reincarnation per se is what happens all the time but obviously with no recall, ha! now see? how crazy am I anyways? ahh but I am a harm to no one it is just ideas and I am just in one of my little playful moods and looking for someone to play with
> 
> Be good
> Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
> Jenna



Given that in some aspects one can consider matter energy and energy matter, how would one explain the increasing population of humans, and the number of souls? As well as why during the "handover" not more is retained?

NOTE: I care not for personal beliefs on this, I am enjoying the philisophical discussion with other crazies, oh I mean, philosphers like me.


----------



## elder999

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Given that in some aspects one can consider matter energy and energy matter, how would one explain the increasing population of humans, and the number of souls? As well as why during the "handover" not more is retained?
> 
> NOTE: I care not for personal beliefs on this, I am enjoying the philisophical discussion with other crazies, oh I mean, philosphers like me.


 
See  this post, for at least a little foundation in one possible "scientific" explanation, though I am completely against mixing metaphysics with physics, for the time being, anyway-but "new" energy is streaming toward earth all the time, Rich.

Oh, and 



> Do you believe our souls have lived other lives?


 
For the most part, *yes*, and that's all I have to say here on the matter.........


----------



## Rich Parsons

elder999 said:
			
		

> See  this post, for at least a little foundation in one possible "scientific" explanation, though I am completely against mixing metaphysics with physics, for the time being, anyway-but "new" energy is streaming toward earth all the time, Rich.
> 
> Oh, and
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part, *yes*, and that's all I have to say here on the matter.........




SHHHH, using real facts and scientific methods in a philisophical discussion will only chase peopel away.   


PS: I did like that other post on Sunlight and the energy of where we all came form.


----------



## Lisa

elder999 said:
			
		

> Oh, and
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part, *yes*, and that's all I have to say here on the matter.........



Oh, elder...I hate answers like these...makes me wonder who your old soul could be.  Are there as many Napoleon Bonapart's running around as there are Joan of Arcs?


----------



## elder999

Lisa said:
			
		

> Oh, elder...I hate answers like these...makes me wonder who your old soul could be.


 
No one of any consequence, really-and that's that.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Personally, I've always felt a connection to Gettysburg, and Virginia. Also, Rome and Egypt seem, familiar.  *shrug* Or, I could be simply weird.


----------



## elder999

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> *shrug* Or, I could be simply weird.


 
I *am* weird, and proud of it.:lol:


----------



## Lisa

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Personally, I've always felt a connection to Gettysburg, and Virginia. Also, Rome and Egypt seem, familiar.  *shrug* Or, I could be simply weird.



Must be all those unresolved issues in past lives that you are dragging along with you.  Are you at least male?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Lisa said:
			
		

> Must be all those unresolved issues in past lives that you are dragging along with you.  Are you at least male?


Last time I looked.....


----------



## Cruentus

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> Last time I looked.....


 
Bob...did you shave your head?

On topic...

It is important to mention that thermodynamics and other parts of science don't actually prove anything in this regard.

We don't have objective evidence for souls to begin with; but even if we assume that we have souls we don't have objective evidence that "the soul" or consiousness would remain in tact after death. The body surely doesn't, as it gets recycled back into the universe.

If we were going to use the laws of nature and the law of thermodynamics as a clue for what happends to our "soul" (again, assuming that souls exist), then we would assume that the soul wouldn't remain in tact anymore then our bodies would. In other words, our "energy" would reincarnate, but our consciousness and who we are would cease to be.

But, I think most people are not comfortable with the notion that they may someday no longer be conscious, as that would mean that we would basically no longer exist beyond this life.

I personally am not comfortable with that thought either; and I do believe that we have souls. But I realize that this is my belief; I may have subjective proof for it, but I have no verifiable objective evidence to prove my beliefs. That is what makes them "beliefs" and not "facts" that can be backed by science.

Paul


----------



## Elayna

Hiya Everyone....

Ohhh how i love this topic. Whoohoo I say.

I believe in past lives and future lives.  I believe in God.  I believe he made our soul.  So I say....Is our God a wasteful God?    What would be the point to life to come here...live 80 to 90 years and then that be it?  I mean come on people....what a waste.   There is so much to learn, to see, to experience.   I dont think we could do that in one lifetime.  There is so much to learn to become better.
I think that the memories of past lives are not in our concious memory but rather in our sub-concious memory. That part of us that is hard to access...that 90% of the brain we dont use for some reason or the other.
Im not one to obssess about who i was in the past...It was the past.  I just hope I have learned from whatever my mistakes were and repeat whatever I did right.  And had fun baby...Yea!!!!
Anyhooooo.....Let the good times roll....
Live this life to the fullest. But not like its your last. Enjoy everything all around you.  And just in case we dont have lives after this....Dont take anything for granted I say.
But again.....I say eat lots of chocolate too.  LOL...
TTYL peeps....


----------



## Jenna

Elayna said:
			
		

> Hiya Everyone....
> 
> Ohhh how i love this topic. Whoohoo I say.
> 
> I believe in past lives and future lives. I believe in God. I believe he made our soul. So I say....Is our God a wasteful God? What would be the point to life to come here...live 80 to 90 years and then that be it? I mean come on people....what a waste. There is so much to learn, to see, to experience. I dont think we could do that in one lifetime. There is so much to learn to become better.
> I think that the memories of past lives are not in our concious memory but rather in our sub-concious memory. That part of us that is hard to access...that 90% of the brain we dont use for some reason or the other.
> Im not one to obssess about who i was in the past...It was the past. I just hope I have learned from whatever my mistakes were and repeat whatever I did right. And had fun baby...Yea!!!!
> Anyhooooo.....Let the good times roll....
> Live this life to the fullest. But not like its your last. Enjoy everything all around you. And just in case we dont have lives after this....Dont take anything for granted I say.
> But again.....I say eat lots of chocolate too. LOL...
> TTYL peeps....


 
Hey Elayna  welcome to MT firstly and wow my friend this is a super post right here and you have a lovely spirit and which is not weighted as many in jaded cynicism  and but you said "What would be the point to life to come here...live 80 to 90 years and then that be it?" which suggests that there is some unwritten rule to suggest "fairness" in our eyes so that the reasoning is that if we just died after our alloted time then that would be unfair or pointless.. but I would just offer an opinion to say perhaps right answer wrong reason and which is just my opinion and do not pay attention to me anyways and but we are inclined to take the view of ourselves as the centre around which everything revolves which is contrary to the truth that we are just the outpost revolving around the centre. What I am saying is that there IS no point looking at ourselves inwardly as finite existences and which sounds unfortunate but we would do better to step outside ourselves a little and look in that is when things begin to make a bit more sense in the overall bigger picture because in the bigger picture where we are little cogs in the big machine then there is no relevance to the notion of "pointlessness" ahh but see I am not so good for clarity or logic and so just disregard all that.. pffft.

but yes we are in agreement CHOCOLATE IS GOOD, ha! and that is the point of existence right there! .. welcome to MT Elayna and that is a lovely name also! I will go have a little nosey at your posts maybe.. 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Elayna

Hey Jenna girl....

Thank you so much for the nice comment about my spirit.  I always wondered why i looked so good in the mirror.  LOL, Hehehe.  (update, havent looked in the mirror since my son was born).

Well, even though your thoughts were jumbled a bit, I tottaly got what you were trying to say.    And yet again i am shown how much I still have to learn.
But for me, I guess thinking that it would be pointless to only live for 80 or 90 years and thinking I am the center of the universe comes from my belief that God did indeed create us from his image.(not his physical image) If He did not think we were the center of the universe in some fashion, then why would he do that?  (add that to a list of a million "whys" i have).  I dont think we are the only ones out there.  I dont think that all fate of the universe rests in our hands.  I dont think were that big.  But I do believe that we are important enough, to have more worth then, to live one life, and never be able to experience all the things he puts in front of us.  Or even learn all the things there is to learn.  I hope he would have enough respect for our souls to see us as creatures worth the opportunity, to continue on in our journey, past our mortal life. 
Let me define my meaning of life.
Life= the span between birth and death. Not only bodily birth and death, but also, emotionall and spritual.
So, In my mind and heart, I believe that another life can also be the life you lead as a spirit in heaven.  But i also believe that you could be sent back again to take human form to continue your journey, or to start anew.
   I also believe this would apply to little green men.  *smile*
Update: I take everyones opinion seriously and disregard nothing. There is always something to learn from everything. Whether you see it at the time, or not.
Warning: I can be a bit of a smart a**.   BWAHHHAAAHHAAA
Jenna girl.....I agree with you, in that we should concentrate on looking within.  I believe that alot of answers can be found with looking into your own mind and heart and not always looking to the stars.    But sometimes, it is good to dream and look to the stars.    They hold secrets of their own, that maybe someday we will be ready for.   Until then.....Lets all keep dreaming in our own wonderful minds.
 Tottaly loving the convo...keep it coming peeps.
TTYL


----------



## heretic888

Elayna said:
			
		

> I think that the memories of past lives are not in our concious memory but rather in our sub-concious memory. That part of us that is hard to access...that 90% of the brain we dont use for some reason or the other.



Just a quick FYI. . .

Contrary to popular belief, human beings actually use almost 100% of their brains. The information that gets garbled and distilled to the common populace originally states that we generally only use 10% of our brains _at any given time_. However, the truth is that we _do_ use almost 100% of our brains at some time or another. 

The notion of some "untapped reservoir" of psychic potential in some corner of our grey matter is just nonsense. We only use 10% of our brains at any given time in order to preserve metabolic energy and attention, not because we secretly have burried subconscious memories of untapped psychic abilities.

Actually, it is interesting to observe the neurological makeup of those individuals that do go along and develop such qualities. Long-time practitioners of meditation, for example, have thicker cortical bundling in certain portions of their brain. This does not imply that they are accessing regions of their brain that we are not, but that the regions they are accessing are more "developed" due to constant use and practice (similar to building muscles from weightlifting and exercise).

Anyways, back to your discussion. . .


----------



## Cruentus

I just wanted to back Heretic up to say that is absolutely correct.

I like that he also mentioned the bidirectional relationship between cognition and brain development; that the brain is a living organ that actually has the propensity to develop from use not unlike many other organs as well. Nice job...


----------



## heretic888

Tulisan said:
			
		

> I just wanted to back Heretic up to say that is absolutely correct.
> 
> I like that he also mentioned the bidirectional relationship between cognition and brain development; that the brain is a living organ that actually has the propensity to develop from use not unlike many other organs as well. Nice job...


 
Thanks. 

The technical terminology for these concepts, in case anybody is interested in looking into them themselves, are long-term potentiation (LTP) and long-term enhancement (LTE).  Interesting stuff.

Laterz.


----------



## Elayna

HIya, Thanks you 2 for the science update.. I guess thats why i didnt do so well in science in college....and that the professor was dressed tottaly tacky.  LOL.Imagine what we could do if we could access more then 10% of our brain at any given moment.  That would be definatly cool.  I guess believe in past lives is mostly a personall belief.  It cant be proved by science.  But I do say science has yet to clone a full grown human being....so i think there is still so much about the human body and mind that is under question of what we can or cant do.  I believe that until we now 100% that we cant do something,.believe that we can.  Ok you got me...im a tottaly optimist.  LOL.Anyhooo....To each his own you know.TTYL


----------



## heretic888

Elayna said:
			
		

> Imagine what we could do if we could access more then 10% of our brain at any given moment. That would be definatly cool.


 
Err... not really.

We only "use" 10% of our brains at any given moment so as to conserve energy. It wouldn't be "cool" if, for example, you could use 100% of the muscles of your body at any given moment. You would probably end up seriously injuring yourself. 

Same thing with the brain, I would expect some severe psychological and possibly neurological damage would result from "using it all" at once. Actually, we unconsciously "filter out" a lot of things from our active attention so that we will not overwhelm our sense of perception. My guess is that somebody hypothetically going at it 100% would have very little in the way of sanity.

Laterz.


----------



## Rich Parsons

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Err... not really.
> 
> We only "use" 10% of our brains at any given moment so as to conserve energy. It wouldn't be "cool" if, for example, you could use 100% of the muscles of your body at any given moment. You would probably end up seriously injuring yourself.
> 
> Same thing with the brain, I would expect some severe psychological and possibly neurological damage would result from "using it all" at once. Actually, we unconsciously "filter out" a lot of things from our active attention so that we will not overwhelm our sense of perception. My guess is that somebody hypothetically going at it 100% would have very little in the way of sanity.
> 
> Laterz.



HMMMM? I thought it was about 2% of the Brain being used on average, unless of course you include the lower brain stem and auto-functions then maybe it would be up to 10%.


----------



## Cruentus

Wanna know what's Kewl...

I aMusing 100% of my brain _RIGHT_ *NOW!!! *

*GAAACK!  verkill: *


----------



## qizmoduis

The brain uses up a lot of power:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/JacquelineLing.shtml

Snopes on the 10% myth:

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

Just a little snack for thought.  Stick in the 90% of your brain that you're not using right now.  Try not to overwrite something important, though.


----------



## Lisa

Wow. 

Now hasn't my little thread about  believing if your soul has lived other lives evolved into quite a discussion.  I am impressed with the answers and the conversations going on.  Obviously our membership is quite opinionated in this sense. I just wanted to thank everyone for their input.  I have actually learned quite a lot so far and look forward to learning more.

I am one of those poor souls who obviously was under the belief that we used a ver small percentage of our brain.  Obviously that has been defunked.  I have to admit part of me is a little disappointed.  I guess I wanted to think we were capable of much more then we presently are.  I was hoping that other 90% of our brains unlocked so many answers to questions that we have 

Carry on.


----------



## heretic888

Thanks for the links, qizmodius. Excellent stuff. 



			
				Lisa said:
			
		

> I am one of those poor souls who obviously was under the belief that we used a ver small percentage of our brain. Obviously that has been defunked. I have to admit part of me is a little disappointed. I guess I wanted to think we were capable of much more then we presently are.


 
We most certainly are, but it's not due to unlocking some "secret" portion of our brains that was hirtherto unexplored. The "secret" is developing the parts of yourself that you already have access to, just like building muscle from persistent exercise.

To that end, you may want to look into some of the stuff researched by neurotheology.



			
				Lisa said:
			
		

> I was hoping that other 90% of our brains unlocked so many answers to questions that we have



Well, from a purely evolutionary perspective, it would make no sense to have an organ that the vast majority of the species don't generally use. Especially, as noted by one of the links that qizmodius provided in his post, the vast amount of energy that the brain consumes.

I personally believe that some degree of "psychic" ability does exist in humans, but I don't think it is accessed from unlocking some "hidden" portion of our grey matter. I also think that the vast majority of individuals claiming to have "psychic" abilities are lying charlatans.

Laterz.


----------



## Fu_Bag

heretic888 said:
			
		

> I personally believe that some degree of &quot;psychic&quot; ability does exist in humans, but I don't think it is accessed from unlocking some &quot;hidden&quot; portion of our grey matter. I also think that the vast majority of individuals claiming to have &quot;psychic&quot; abilities are lying charlatans.
> 
> Laterz.


Hmmm...  Somehow............I.........just.............KNEW that you were going to say that....  Wwwweeeeeiiiiiirrrrrrrdddddd......


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## qizmoduis

Lisa said:
			
		

> Wow.
> 
> Now hasn't my little thread about  believing if your soul has lived other lives evolved into quite a discussion.  I am impressed with the answers and the conversations going on.  Obviously our membership is quite opinionated in this sense. I just wanted to thank everyone for their input.  I have actually learned quite a lot so far and look forward to learning more.
> 
> I am one of those poor souls who obviously was under the belief that we used a ver small percentage of our brain.  Obviously that has been defunked.  I have to admit part of me is a little disappointed.  I guess I wanted to think we were capable of much more then we presently are.  I was hoping that other 90% of our brains unlocked so many answers to questions that we have
> 
> Carry on.



Disappointed!?  Goodness, I hope not.  Human understanding of the world and the universe is growing by leaps and bounds every day.  We cure diseases and save lives.  We see into the very beginning of time and the very edge of the universe.  We can study the largest structures of the universe and can write our names using just a few atoms with an electron microscope.  Look how far we've come, just in the past century, and we aren't slowing down at all. (To some, that's a problem)  Mysticism and superstition aren't necessary to see the wonders of our world and the beauty (and ugliness, unfortunately) of human creativity and potential.  In fact, they are terrible impediments to progress and a source of much suffering in the world.

Don't be disappointed.  Be overjoyed!  Look what we've done, despite our flaws.  And we did it without help.

Obviously, we've got a long way to go.


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## heretic888

qizmoduis said:
			
		

> Mysticism and superstition aren't necessary to see the wonders of our world and the beauty (and ugliness, unfortunately) of human creativity and potential. In fact, they are terrible impediments to progress and a source of much suffering in the world.


 
That depends on how you define "mysticism", I suppose. There is no single methodology that has been demonstrated to accelerate ego and moral development moreso than meditation.

To that end, I myself am inclined to lump much of "scientific materialism" in with the "superstition" label. They both rest on blind faith in _a priori_ metaphysics that can in no way be demonstrated by logic or evidence.

Laterz.


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