# How far would you travel?



## anurok (Jul 6, 2009)

This is my first post on MT and I want to say how much I appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining these forums. Well done.

I have been a fan of more than one martial art for quite some time now. I have dabbled in Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Kick boxing and now I have come across Ninjutsu. I was in Japan, traveling from Tokyo down to the Kyoto region back in October on vacation. One night around 2AM on my way back to the hotel I passed by the local park with its dim lights, small shrines and fountains...and people.

They had uniforms on, what I thought were maybe workers since they were standing around and it was hard to see. After I nearly walked passed the entrance of the park I hear one man, a little taller yet thinner looking than the rest shout something in Japanese and the rest of the people take off.

I was interested so I walked right into the park. I didn't really care who they were, I am confident in my own abilities to defend myself if anything happened, and walked up to the taller man who did not run off. I simply walked up to him and he was dressed in all black with his tobi, a sash around his waist. I instantly knew they were practioners of some form of ninjutsu from their uniform at that point. I could hear russling around me from the students training but not many other sounds. The area around the park was very quiet since it was so late and it made it more intrigueing to me...I could barely hear anything going on.

The man greated me in Japanese, I responded with what I knew in Japanese then asked if he knew some English. He only knew a few words and very broken english but said,"Welcome to Japan. The students are having their training now, please do not bother. Thank you."

With that I gave a deep bow out of respect as did the taller man. He took off and I didn't really see where anyone went at that point so I went back to the hotel.

Till this day back here in San Diego I will never forget that. To anyone else it would seem rather fruitless to be excited about it but I just wanted to go and find the tall man again and ask him if I could train with them. Thats all I wanted to do for the rest of my vacation...

Now here in San Diego I have wanted to practice Ninjutsu for some time but I can NOT find a Dojo that is within half an hour of where I live. The nearest one is http://www.ninjutsusandiego.com/ and that is about an hour away with traffic...

How far do you all travel for classes and schools? I grow tired of the rather boring and commercialized Muay Thai/kick boxing I do at my gym and grappling does not appeal to me very much with Jiu Jitsu. I need something that will make me think and make me learn. Learning is the keyword here and just going to White Dragon Martial arts where they teach a commercial Kung Fu for $2000 a year seems pretty out rageous.

Any thoughts? Does anyone know anything about San Diego Ninjutsu?

Thanks for the read =)

Paul


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 6, 2009)

> I have been a fan of more than one martial art for quite some time now. I have dabbled in Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Kick boxing and now I have come across Ninjutsu. I was in Japan, traveling from Tokyo down to the Kyoto region back in October on vacation. One night around 2AM on my way back to the hotel I passed by the local park with its dim lights, small shrines and fountains...and people.


 This was in Kyoto?




> I simply walked up to him and he was dressed in all black with his tobi, a sash around his waist. I instantly knew they were practioners of some form of ninjutsu from their uniform at that point


How did you know they practice Ninjutsu? What was the uniform you mean a Keikogi? A sash you mean an obi like the belts you find in all Japanese martial arts or an obi like you find in cermony like a Heko obi?



> Now here in San Diego I have wanted to practice Ninjutsu for some time but I can NOT find a Dojo that is within half an hour of where I live. The nearest one is http://www.ninjutsusandiego.com/ and that is about an hour away with traffic...


 Dale Seago posts here on Martial talk you can PM him or here: http://www.bujinkansf.org/dale/ I am sure he knows the San Diego school.



> How far do you all travel for classes and schools?


 Psst. You already were in Japan so you are complaining about an hour away class? I have traveled to Japan to train, I have traveled out of state to train I have traveled out of my county to the next county to train.
If you really want to train in an art you might have to go to far off places to train.


> they teach a commercial Kung Fu for $2000 a year seems pretty out rageous.


 Not really $2000 a year breaks into $167 a month $42 a week about $6 a day there are more expensive and cheaper ones depends on how many days you can go depends on the art depends on the teacher.


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## clfsean (Jul 6, 2009)

I used to drive 35 miles one way to the Bujinkan Dojo here in Atlanta. 

Also... FWIW... White Dragon doesn't teach "commercial" kung fu. They teach authentic Choy Li Fut, but it may be presented in a "commercial" fashion & format.


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## anurok (Jul 6, 2009)

Ah yes, it was in Kyoto. My sentence seemed rather vague. The belt was was belt more so than a sash...it did look like a karate/tae kwon do belt. It was tied off in the front. But that was what the instructor (I am assuming) was wearing.

I assume they were practicing some form of ninjutsu only from books I have read and research I have done. What else would they really have been doing at 2AM in the park? Certainly not band practice heh.

I am only concerned for travel time because I have to work two jobs and usually work 50 hours a week. I would love to not worry about traveling 45 minutes to an hour each day but I have done that and it gets tiring.

I will try and contact Mr. Seago about the school here in San Diego.



clfsean said:


> I used to drive 35 miles one way to the Bujinkan Dojo here in Atlanta.
> 
> Also... FWIW... White Dragon doesn't teach "commercial" kung fu. They teach authentic Choy Li Fut, but it may be presented in a "commercial" fashion & format.



How far do you travel now?

And I know White Dragon teaches authentic arts but you are right on it being presented in a commercial sense. I have been hearing mixed things from different people. Some love it and some have had bad experiences with it. I am still waiting for a call back to possibly go in and see what they are all about before committing that much to them.


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## clfsean (Jul 6, 2009)

anurok said:


> How far do you travel now?



Now I don't travel that far. I'm also not studying BBT any longer. If I were, I'd be driving more than 35 miles one way since my old teacher is out of retirement. 



anurok said:


> And I know White Dragon teaches authentic arts but you are right on it being presented in a commercial sense. I have been hearing mixed things from different people. Some love it and some have had bad experiences with it. I am still waiting for a call back to possibly go in and see what they are all about before committing that much to them.



I can't blame you there. But your intimation was a little different than that. I study & teach Choy Li Fut now. White Dragon has their own way of doing it & it doesn't fit everybody, but not everything fits everybody anyway.


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## amishman (Jul 6, 2009)

I grappled with the distance issue also, especially with the big jump in gas prices this last year or so.  It has been about 2 years since I 1st got a taste of Taijutsu classes.  My nearest class was 1 hour one way.  I went for a month before hurting my groin and dropping out of class.  2 years later, even though $ is still tight, I have been considering joining again.  2 hours in a car every class may be too much but I suppose if you really enjoy the class, you will get over it.  I have to decide soon if I want to try it again as I really need to at least join some class so I can get in better shape and my local martial arts groups I don't care for much.  Something about studying Ninjustu keeps my mind active in training so that may get me to commute once again.  tj


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## Dale Seago (Jul 6, 2009)

I'd recommend the Bujinkan Heijyoshin Dojo in San Diego, headed by Shidoshi Morgan Webb.

BTW, before I started going regularly to Japan to train I spent a few years driving after work twice a week to the Stockton dojo, which was the only one in northern California. 180-mile round trip.


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## Bruno@MT (Jul 7, 2009)

Atm I train less than 5 minutes away from where I live. My sensei started a new dojo in the town where I live, when he moved back there. He is teaching under the supervision / authority of the head sensei of our club.

Atm I have little kids and my wife has a busy job so I have to take care of the kids in the evening. It often happens she only gets home at 7:30PM or even 8PM. With 5 minutes traveling and class starting at 8:30 PM, the logistics work out.

If the club where I train were ever to close, I would try to find another genbukan dojo (for example our mother dojo which is an hour away from me) and skip class whenever my wife can't make it on time, or find something else altogether, depending on circumstances.


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## Bruno@MT (Jul 7, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Psst. You already were in Japan so you are complaining about an hour away class? I have traveled to Japan to train, I have traveled out of state to train I have traveled out of my county to the next county to train.
> If you really want to train in an art you might have to go to far off places to train.



If you have a partner and kids, then an hour can be a pretty big obstacle. In my case, 2 little kids and a wife working long hours put some strong limitations on what is or is not possible.

For 7 years, I was the one working long hours and weekends (software developer consultancy), and my wife worked 9-5 as a lab worker. Now I've taken job close by with fixed hours and she accepted a promotion to supervisor. It's only fair that I now do the same for her as she did for me.

So training in an art can be limited by circumstance other than not wanting to make an effort.



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Not really $2000 a year breaks into $167 a month $42 a week about $6 a day there are more expensive and cheaper ones depends on how many days you can go depends on the art depends on the teacher.



Depends. If you can train every day you want, then yes. Atm our club has 1 official class per week. Minus august, minus the odd holiday, we are talking about 45 classes per year, which is about 50ish $ per training. So yes, that would be steep.

And again, having wife, kids and a mortgage, 2000$ would not be impossible to manage, but it would definitely make an impact on the household budget.


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## anurok (Jul 7, 2009)

Dale Seago said:


> I'd recommend the Bujinkan Heijyoshin Dojo in San Diego, headed by Shidoshi Morgan Webb.
> 
> BTW, before I started going regularly to Japan to train I spent a few years driving after work twice a week to the Stockton dojo, which was the only one in northern California. 180-mile round trip.



Do you have any information on this dojo? Nothing seems to come up online at all...

I also wish I could dedicate that much time to training...However, with working two jobs and other hobbies that keep me company a 1 hour+ trip each way seems a little out of the way...no matter how much I want it.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 7, 2009)

> If you have a partner and kids, then an hour can be a pretty big obstacle. In my case, 2 little kids and a wife working long hours put some strong limitations on what is or is not possible.


 
I don't drive. But I still find a way to travel. I have a wife she comes with me. I do not have kids but if I did I would have someone watch them while I go do my business. If I did not have a wife or other obstacle I would find a way over it. If you want something you have to go get it.




> So training in an art can be limited by circumstance other than not wanting to make an effort.


 There are people with no legs no arms that train,People who have kids who have someone watch the kids they find a way.



> Depends. If you can train every day you want, then yes. Atm our club has 1 official class per week. Minus august, minus the odd holiday, we are talking about 45 classes per year, which is about 50ish $ per training. So yes, that would be steep.


 Kyoshi Gary Giamboi who is in your organization charges $100an hour talk about steep!!  I know plenty of schools that charge over $100 a month so it is not out of the norm. Looks like the Genbukan has new merchadise again you can get a pin now!!



> And again, having wife, kids and a mortgage, 2000$ would not be impossible to manage, but it would definitely make an impact on the household budget.


So $6 a day is to much? People use about that on coffee and a muffin at Starbucks.


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## MMcGuirk (Jul 7, 2009)

Dale Seago said:


> I'd recommend the Bujinkan Heijyoshin Dojo in San Diego, headed by Shidoshi Morgan Webb.
> 
> BTW, before I started going regularly to Japan to train I spent a few years driving after work twice a week to the Stockton dojo, which was the only one in northern California. 180-mile round trip.


 

I'm still doing 232 miles round trip.  Since college in the early 90's until now.  It's still a shorter travel than Japan but if I could commute there once every 6 months I wouldn't complain!


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## Bruno@MT (Jul 7, 2009)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I don't drive. But I still find a way to travel. I have a wife she comes with me. I do not have kids but if I did I would have someone watch them while I go do my business. If I did not have a wife or other obstacle I would find a way over it. If you want something you have to go get it.



I acknowledge your point. It is simply a matter of priorities. But given my wife's unpredictable schedule, combined with the sometimes unpredictable needs of the kids, it would be stressful. It would require sacrifices, and more to the point it would require sacrifices of other people as well. And depending on the context, that could be unfair.

for example: I could have kept my exciting consultancy job if I really wanted to. But that would also mean that my wife would have had to deny her supervisor promotion (which would be her sacrifice) or she could have accepted, but then the kids would practically have lived in daycare the entire week, from 7AM to 7PM, and sometimes with a babysitter during the weekend. (which would be their involuntary sacrifice).

Life is not about what -I- really really want. Life is about balancing the needs and wants of -us-.

However, while it may not be possible for me to do it the way I want (going to the dojo n times per week) I could go once per week, or maybe even once every 2 weeks, and practise at home at the times when I would have time. This way, it would become -my- burden again, and that is something that is up to me.
So I agree with you that you can find a way, even though it might not be the way you would prefer.
I think we meant the same thing, but we were talking about different things.



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Kyoshi Gary Giamboi who is in your organization charges $100an hour talk about steep!!  I know plenty of schools that charge over $100 a month so it is not out of the norm. Looks like the Genbukan has new merchadise again you can get a pin now!!



But that is private tuition, which is different. When I went snowboarding in january, I had never snowboarded before, so I took private lessons from a professional instructor. It was about the same price.

Classroom tuition is typically a lot cheaper. the club usually rents timeslots in the municipal MA dojo. The cost is split between insurance, org membership and club membership, but usually runs a couple hundred per year.
The flip side of that is that you only have those hours, 1 or 2 days per week.



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> So $6 a day is to much? People use about that on coffee and a muffin at Starbucks.



Aye. Some people do. When my wife and I started living together, we never really 'cared' about money because we made enough to have a comfortable lifestyle and still have money left at the end of the month. By making it 6$ per day you make it sound cheap, but as a whole, 2000$ is still a lot of money. I already said I could spend it if I really wanted to, but it would have an impact.


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## Live True (Jul 7, 2009)

anurok said:


> I also wish I could dedicate that much time to training...However, with working two jobs and other hobbies that keep me company a 1 hour+ trip each way seems a little out of the way...no matter how much I want it.


 
With all due respect Anurok, it sounds to me like you aren't sure what you want to focus upon. 

You mention the two jobs and distance, which are real issues, and then you mention other hobbies.  As Bruno and Jade have been discussing, it is, in part, about how much you want to do something. It is also, about balancing your life and your wants.

I do not train in ninjustu, but I can easily and quickly relate to a full life and travel. I travel 2 hours a day to and from my job.  I was traveling the same distance 2-3x/week for training until I had my first child. While I could have someone else watch my child, I value the time I can spend with her and focus on her, so I've had to re-evaluate my life. Still, my training is very important to me and something that adds so much more than simple physical skill sets.

So, I have a new teacher who works with me once a week in a long and intense training session.  I workout on my own the rest of the week, and then discuss any questions/corrections at the beginning of our next training session.  I hope to expand this to 2x week in the coming months or years...it will depend on the needs of my family as well as my own.

So, if you really want this, and it's just not something that simply intrigues you, then I would encourage you to look up the information for this dojo and go physically visit them. See if you can sit in on a training session and talk to the sensei/sifu/teacher/coach (apologies, as I do not know the correct title in this art) and see if there are any schedules/arrangements that you can reach.  You may find this isn't what you are seeking or you may find that it is so much more.  In either case, you will be better able to determine how/if it fits into your life and goals.

As you surely know from your muy thai experience, you you may need more training time in the beginning, as you are learning a lot of basic skills.  So, once/week or even twice/week may not be enough.  Again, decide how seriously you want to take this training, and make a decision that is fair, not only to you, but to your teacher and fellow students who invest thier time and trust in you as well.

In the end, it comes down to what you are seeking, how important it is to you, and how it fits/balances in your life.

Good luck in your search.


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## Bruno@MT (Jul 7, 2009)

Live True said:


> So, I have a new teacher who works with me once a week in a long and intense training session.  I workout on my own the rest of the week, and then discuss any questions/corrections at the beginning of our next training session.  I hope to expand this to 2x week in the coming months or years...it will depend on the needs of my family as well as my own.



That is how I would do it as well, and how I already do it now. Due to the circumstances, I can easily commit going to the dojo at practise time.
Still, that is less times per week than I want to train.

So whenever I have half an hour or so to myself, I practise outdoors on the lawn. My wife regularly comes home when the kids are already asleep (she takes care of them in the mornings). When that happens, I use the 'free' time by practising the basics over and over.

This is a way for me to turn a 'problem' (not being able to go out and train at another dojo) into an opportunity: training whenever I have the house to myself. In that I agree with JCA. If you really want to, you can learn an art. Maybe not the way you wanted to (going to the dojo x times per week) and maybe not progressing as much as you want. But there is more than 1 way to skin a cat (proverb)

And even if you can only go to dojo once every week, or once every 2 weeks: yes it sucks, but by practising at home you can at least continue to improve your basics, and there will come a time when you will have more time. And then you can build upon the basics that you maintained all those years.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 7, 2009)

> I acknowledge your point. It is simply a matter of priorities. But given my wife's unpredictable schedule, combined with the sometimes unpredictable needs of the kids, it would be stressful. It would require sacrifices, and more to the point it would require sacrifices of other people as well. And depending on the context, that could be unfair.


 Yep priorities and sacrifices. People make these choices on a daily basis sometimes it is not fair to the other person but that is life.




> But that is private tuition, which is different. When I went snowboarding in january, I had never snowboarded before, so I took private lessons from a professional instructor. It was about the same price.


 He only taught private or semi private at an hour min. And half of the class was stretching!! The point was that $2,000 a year($167 a month) is not that bad compared to $100 an hour which half the class is stretching. Gary's live in student program for a week was $1,000. Also alot of MMA gyms charge more than $167 a month in my area about $200 a month is the going rate. Interesting note one of the MMA gyms charged $200 a month but $35 an hour for private lesson.


> By making it 6$ per day you make it sound cheap, but as a whole, 2000$ is still a lot of money.


 Its called money management. I just spent $5.47 on popcorn and 2 gallons of water 3.89popcorn .79water per water so $6 a day is not to hard.


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## jks9199 (Jul 7, 2009)

Y'know...

There's never a winner when we try to discuss who's sacrificing enough to train.  Each and everyone of us has a life and responsibilities, and we must balance them according to our own beliefs and priorities.  I gave up job opportunities in part to remain where I am and continue to train with my teacher.  But I also have missed training opportunities due to work and family.  I made my own balance; I'm reasonably happy with it.  Everyone else needs to do the same.  I know people who ended up sacrificing their families because they put martial arts first -- and I know people who gave up martial arts 'cause family came first.  In the same way, I know people who have subordinated everything to their jobs...  You ask me, none of them are making good calls, because life needs to be balanced.


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## Bruno@MT (Jul 7, 2009)

Yes. Life, family, work, marriage, self, .... it's all about balance. It only works if the balance is reasonable for everyone involved, or it won't work long term.


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## Tsuki-Yomi (Jul 7, 2009)

I know a real good guy out in San Diego as well.  His name is Rey Neval.  He just passed his Godan test back in December.  If you want his email address send me a pm.  I think the sessions would be somewhat private, and I am not sure on his fees, but I have trained with him at a seminar and he has excellent Taijutsu.


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## Shinobi Teikiatsu (Jul 7, 2009)

Is anyone even going to bother addressing the fact that he seems to want to learn how to disappear into trees and move without a sound?

You mentioned how you aren't interested in grappling, but I hate to tell you, taijutsu has a lot of grappling, in one form or another. There isn't too much striking in it, but it has some devestating throws, grabs and locks. Much of the stealth aspect of ninjutsu has been done away with in the past years. Not to say that it's done away with completely, but it's very hard to find a teacher who still actively teaches it. Most of the curriculum now deals with self-defence, weapons and ukemi, so I'd think twice about trying to separate ninjutsu from other arts.

All arts force you to think, it's up to you to decide how much you want to think about them.


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## Live True (Jul 7, 2009)

DEFINATELY agree with you Bruno. I trained until the last two weeks of my pregnancy...with SIGNIFICANT changes and slowing down as I went...but it kept if fresh in my mind and body and had the added benefit of helping ease back pain and swelling. 

So, if you really want something or are inspired to learn...you will find a way. Like Bruno said, "there will come a time when you will have more time"

Balance...that ever elusive quarry!


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## anurok (Jul 11, 2009)

I appreciate all of the replies to far ladies and gents. I have still been going back and forth and most of you mentioned that I must learn to balance aspects of my life even when it comes to the martial arts. I never really thought about it that way. I have decided to continue with Jiu Jitsu and from there learn more about Judo. I can attend these classes 3-4 times a week which is more than enough for me and more than I could do with most other schools around me.

Hopefully once I land a job that allows me to only work one job instead of two to get by I can look into different options for martial arts.

I also am going to be doing a parkour/adult gymnastics class at the Local Y to help with my flexibility and endurance =)


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