# Knife Making- steel question



## l_uk3y (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey guys.

Hope this is in the right area and that someone might have an answer.
I'm getting into knife collecting and I want to try my hand at creating a few knifes from scratch.  Nothing fancy just some basic fixed blades. 

Now the question is the steel. They are just for show really. Not going to be put to "Hard use". Now I want to keep it basic for starters. But I still want it to hold an edge within reason. Looking at using stainless steel. 440 grade would be ideal but I can only find it in the size I want for about $130 per meter plus freight.

So I am looking at 316 grade which is much cheaper. However i'm not sure if it will lend itself very well for holding an edge. Or whether it can be heat treated at the end to increase the hardness.

Any suggestions?

Cheers. Luke


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## elder999 (Sep 6, 2010)

l_uk3y said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Hope this is in the right area and that someone might have an answer.
> I'm getting into knife collecting and I want to try my hand at creating a few knifes from scratch. Nothing fancy just some basic fixed blades.
> ...


 
The best beginning for the new maker is to purchase a blank kit, and do their stock removal from that-a fixed blade is the way to go, and -without knowing what kind of shop you have or have access to, I'd recommend a round tanged bowie. With that said, there are several good resources for materials and instruction on the web.Again, I don't know what kind of shop you have or have access to-you might want to concentrate on instructional materials and tools at first, and just practice stock removal on something like leaf springs or old lawn mower blades-not so much to make working knives, but to simply get used to the techniques involved.Stainless steel blanks are actually the cheapest you can get, though. Try Jantz supply.


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## elder999 (Sep 6, 2010)

Oh, and to answer your original question, 440c ok, surgical stainless (316), not so much............


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## David43515 (Sep 6, 2010)

Like he said, learn your basic grinding and stock revoval on scrap steel first. Then if you mess up (and you will, everyone does until they learn. Mistakes are a good thing if you don`t repeat them.) you haven`t wasted your more expensive steel. Jantz is good, also try texas knife makers` supply.

Stainless steels contain at least 11% chromium, so they conduct heat alot more. Keep dipping the steel in water to cool it while you grind or it`ll work harden on you. Ask around on www.bladeforums.com too. Lots of makers there who`ll be happy to answer your questions.In fact there`s a section just for that.


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## Ken Morgan (Sep 6, 2010)

Agreed, I would pick up some scrap and play with it, until I figured out the nuances.
I was in the steel business for ten years, whenever I played with steel I would use 1045 steel, for a knife, Id move up to 1080 or maybe 1090. I never tried stainless, but remember, there are many different types of stainless, so investigate to make sure you get what will suit your purposes. 
Go to a flea market and pick up some old, used files. Generally the steel is great, and its almost the size and shape of what you want anyways. A nice inexpensive blank to start with.


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## l_uk3y (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the tips guys.

As for metal working in general. Its not really new to me. Many years of working on the car as a hobby having to fabricate brackets and bits as well as getting ready for shows. I have done a fair bit of aluminum and stainless polishing. (Not a very pleasant job- lol).  

Main thing that concerns me is how well the metals will be able to hold a blade. Luckily I already have a fairly extensive set of tools including bench grinder and belt sander as well as small die-grinder for any small bits.

I've made a few before out of scraps. Shape and shine isn't the issue really. (on a simple design anyway). Just the quality of the final product worries me. I.e Whats the point of a blade that gets blunt at the first contact with something.

Thanks guys.

Luke


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## girlbug2 (Sep 7, 2010)

l_uk3y said:


> Shape and shine isn't the issue really. (on a simple design anyway). Just the quality of the final product worries me. I.e Whats the point of a blade that gets blunt at the first contact with something.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> Luke


 

And that's why you definitely don't want to make anything nice out of surgical steel. Stick with scrap, then 440 in the beginning and as you progress go to 1080.


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## David43515 (Sep 8, 2010)

If you`re looking for edge holding ability you don`t want any of the 440 series stainless steels anyway. The only thing we everused that for was diving knives where rust resistance was the #1 worry. You`ll get more edge holding ability from 1095, a simple carbon steel you can buy for pennies a pound.

You said in your first post that these are just for show. If that`s the case then 440 is fine, but the high amount of chromium in stainless steeels makes them inherantly more brittle than basic carbon steels. So they get dull faster because the sharp edge wears down faster. Old files are great steel, but they`re harder than Kelsey`s nuts (around 65 on a rockwell scale.), so you`ll need to anneal them first (Cook them@ around 500-600 degrees Farenheight for several hours to remove the temper and soften them.) Basically build a nice charcoal fire and let them sit in it while it burns down to ashe and keep them there until it`s cool several hours later. Letting them cool sloooowwwly is the point here. Then after you`ve shaped the knife reharden them.


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## arsenius (Jan 17, 2011)

You might want to look at O1 tool steel.  It is a nice soft steel, so it is very easy to work deal with (soft while working, not after hardening).  And it's cheap! It holds a good polish, and if you're not using it much it should not rust if given very basic care when put away.

Files are cheap too, but they are hard to work with.  You have to anneal them in an oven (after which the steel is still rather hard compared to O1), and if you don't want the teeth in them you need to grind those out.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is heat treating.  You can't effectively heat treat stainless without special equipment, which you probably don't want to buy for one or two knives.  You can ship the nearly finished knife out to get it heat treated, but I don't know much about it.  On the other hand, with a non-stainless steel you can just use a blow torch and some warm oil.

Finally, a warning about your equipment.  You mentioned a bench grinder and belt sander.  Bench grinders aren't great for making knives (at least not grinding the blade cross section), and you may find that a belt sander doesn't have enough power.  On the other hand, if you have a belt grinder it will work great.  The difference between the two, as far as I know, is basically the amount of power.

Boy I miss making knives!


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 17, 2011)

O1 is my suggestion. It is easy to get, easy to work, and easy to heat-treat yourself.
Stainless is not as easy to get, harder to work and heat treating it yourself is really not an option unless you have the proper equipment and know what you are doing. O1 is also used by most amateur knifemakers and you will find much information and help on the internet.

As for equipment: files, sandpaper and possibly a belt sander / grinder is what I would advise. Power tools are fine, and if you know what you are doing can be of great help. But if you don't have experience using them, then be very, very careful because those things will mutilate you before you even know it happened. I know many horror stories of ripped off thumbs, mangled arms and rough blades that were grabbed by the equipment and then flung back at high speed.

Hand tools also have the advantage that mistakes will have no serious consequences whereas with power tools you'll destroy your workpiece.


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## never-finished-learning (Feb 7, 2014)

old nicholson files, heavy saw blades, leaf springs and other sources of high carbon steels are your best bets if you dont mind putting some work in to it other wise i would suggest a 1085 or 1095 steel vs. stainless it really boils down to personal preference.


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