# Black dot- White dot focus



## Rainman (Jun 7, 2002)

What do they mean to you and how do you use them?


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 8, 2002)

jumping and raising hand from the back of the room........ Kenpo is black ........... 

:asian:


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## jfarnsworth (Jun 8, 2002)

Black dot focus is the only way to train. The only way to observe and learn about our great art of kenpo.
Jason Farnsworth


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## brianhunter (Jun 8, 2002)

You asked about how people train for this......I guess alot of focus and awareness is where you are at and what you are doing. Your level of focus is going to be alot less if for instance you are at a 5 year olds birthday party as opposed to locking up the studio at 11 oclock at night and walking across the parking lot. 
     You can stress yourself out being it too high a state of awareness for too long you need some down time or youll get burned out. Just my opinion I guess.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _*Black dot focus is the only way to train. The only way to observe and learn about our great art of kenpo.*



I would say you are missing a point here..........  It is the better of the two however not the "ONLY" way to  train....  Go to Book I, page 1,  you can learn a lot from another point of view - even if it is just research.   

:asian:


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## satans.barber (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> 
> *What do they mean to you and how do you use them?
> 
> ...



You're not talking about those pads with a white dot in the middle that are black around the outside are you, no, thought not...

I'll get me coat...(sorry, British joke)

Ian.


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## Rainman (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




:roflmao: 



> You asked about how people train for this......I guess alot of focus and awareness is where you are at and what you are doing. Your level of focus is going to be alot less if for instance you are at a 5 year olds birthday party as opposed to locking up the studio at 11 oclock at night and walking across the parking lot.



That is true- 1000 times slow for one time fast is another way to develope black/white dot focus.   For yourself being a Peace Officer it is probabley a large part of who you are most of the time.   When you see a crime do you momentarily get white dot focus?  How long does it last?

:asian:


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## Kenpolane (Jun 8, 2002)

Can someone give me the low-down on thier understanding of Black-Dot White- Dot Focus?


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## RCastillo (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *jumping and raising hand from the back of the room........ Kenpo is black ...........
> 
> :asian: *



Wrong, it's Tracy kenpo, Write yourself up on a referral to the office for speaking out of turn, NOW!:rofl:


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## brianhunter (Jun 8, 2002)

>>>>>>>>For yourself being a Peace Officer it is probabley a large part of who you are most of the time. When you see a crime do you momentarily get white dot focus? How long does it last?





Yes you do.....Im just glad i catch myself slipping into it, some guys cant and dont. Ive gotten into something like a car chase and I catch myself getting tunnel vision and I have to back off and see other things besides the target. Ive even caught myslef holding my breath and digging my fingers into the wheel.....its one of the ways kenpo has opened my eyes and helped me greatly......i try to preach it to the other officers but they think Im a nut they must think its too much like david carradine in a kung fu movie LOL


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## Nightingale (Jun 8, 2002)

in the thread where someone was asking about haiku...forget which one it is, someone posted a link to a site that details the difference, plus has some interesting poetry... I'll go look for the link.


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## Nightingale (Jun 8, 2002)

http://www.rutabaga.com/~xena/consciousness.htm


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## Rainman (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> 
> *in the thread where someone was asking about haiku...forget which one it is, someone posted a link to a site that details the difference, plus has some interesting poetry... I'll go look for the link. *




That's Mr. C's old student nightengale


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## Wes Idol (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *jumping and raising hand from the back of the room........ Kenpo is black ...........
> 
> :asian: *



First off............Mr. C, very funny.

Second off......to add to this question, it's possible I do both. There is time when my focus is on one particular action of power generation, but not for long, because quickly there after I am looking at my whole body in relation to my environment. 

EXAMPLE: I'm striking a person or inanimate object. The first few moments are focused on the weapon and then target (prioritized in that order, arguably White Dot Focus). With my weapon created, then examining the rest of my weapon (the alignment of my body, the totality of my environment), then the target, and quickly I begin to look at what action I am creating to the target and/or weapon (Black Dot Focus).....breaking their ribs might be throwing their head towards mine...nunchaku might be getting re-orbited by the angle of incidence......etc., etc.

For argument sake, I could very well be spending the first moments of examination of power generation in White Dot Focus and then quickly moving into Black Dot Focus. I feel every time I engage my mass into something or someone, I am always considering my environment........so the question is......am I ever only in White Dot Focus consideration, or just being a duel headed Gemini?

Respectfully, 

Wes Idol, HI
United Kenpo Systems
http://www.uks-kenpo.com


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## Goldendragon7 (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wes Idol _*
> Am I ever only in White Dot Focus consideration, or just being a duel headed Gemini?Wes Idol, HI
> *



Understand that the two general categories definitions go much deeper than "just" one or the other.  In General the "Black Dot Focus" is not a representation of an "only" scenario likewise for the "White Dot", rather a "General" condition to recognize.

We constantly want to be "aware" of any extended conditions or considerations during an encounter but, we still "Focus" our defensive actions with complete and proper penetration/execution   "WHILE"    being aware of the big picture.  (Principle of with here).....  This is still Black Dot Focus.   It doesn't have anything to do with our execution of actions during a Self Defense Gesture.  (If you look close at a correct representation of the focus concepts there are a little of the other close to the main color)  a little of each in each, yet one is dominate.

As far as us Kenpoists are concerned..... we think everyone should utilize the Black Dot Concept.   

:asian:


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## Wes Idol (Sep 5, 2002)

Mr. C., 

I certainly see your point and actually concur greatly.  If I was to make a solid commitment I would say "we are black dot focus cats, PERIOD."  

I thought to only consider the "small world" concentration of hitting a bag........or as you put very well, "execution of actions during a Self Defense Gesture"........very nice.  It's funny.  Notwithstanding the education and intelligence we show up with, Parker really opened the door to higher level language to describe how we knock each other around.



WI


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## Chronuss (Sep 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> 
> *What do they mean to you and how do you use them?
> 
> ...



Black dot focus: this is a representation of just "seeing" what is in the foreground, not noticing the background.  the black dot focuses the vision with the white background bringing the eyes to black dot, almost cancelling out itself, sorta just being able to focus on what is directly in front of you and not seeing the surroundings.

White dot focus: representation of being able focus on the foreground and background.  the black background being more expansive and encompassing while the white dot still stands out in the image.  not only is the vision focused on the white dot, but the sight also takes in the black background.  this is kinda the idea of being able to focus what is directly in front of you and also the surroundings of what is in front of you.

this is kinda like what Wes Idol said, but he said it more eloquently.


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## Goldendragon7 (Sep 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chronuss _*
> 
> Black dot focus: this is a representation of just "seeing" what is in the foreground, not noticing the background.  the black dot focuses the vision with the white background bringing the eyes to black dot, almost cancelling out itself, sorta just being able to focus on what is directly in front of you and not seeing the surroundings.
> 
> ...



Nice Try, but you need to reverse the definitions, you have them backwards.  

:asian:


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## Chronuss (Sep 6, 2002)

....sorry... Thanks Mr. C.


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## Seig (Sep 7, 2002)

He's being slysdexic again:rofl:


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## Rainman (Sep 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wes Idol _
> 
> *Mr. C.,
> 
> ...



Well sort of.  Without white dot focus there not is black dot foucus.  Black dot focus is a learned trait.  Hence my avitar.  White dot focus is a natural state of concentraition.  They both exist it is only that black dot focus is the most advantageous.  It is really easy to incorporate it into daily driving (for example)  your eyes are on the car in front of you but the focus is beyond that.  White dot focus is the beginning of the end in a short amount of time because it disallows you to see various angles of attack.

So really it is bad to practice or train using white dot focus in any way, shape or form.   Knowing what WDF is though allows you to unlock the mode in the thought process until BDF is what you live by.  Hitting a bag is a prime place to focus beyond the target.   To make the adjustment from bag to human target is just that much easier when practiced in such a manner.   You have to know where the targets are without looking at them.   Unfortunately working with your associates makes you use WDF in certain stages of developement- so you don't put your fingers through their eye sockets.  WDF may also be used to regulate certain aspects of your fighting game.   When you free yourself (BDF) it is only a matter of time before an injury occurs especially when your associates have much higher levels or much lower levels.   (speed deception and angle issues)

You train for BDF but sometimes WDF must be used as there are issues of regulation when training.   During forms and self defense situations BDF all the way.   There are also superconscious states that go hand in hand with BDF.   

So they both exist and both are used but BDF is the real stuff.   It allows for mushin.   Once that occurs nothing but net babe.   The contradiction lays within training vs. combat.   

You did a good job putting your thoughts out WI- gave me a picture and allowed me to have my thoughts on this subject.


:asian:


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