# What style of wing chun do you study?



## Methos (Mar 3, 2008)

ok i admit the title is sortof misleading, im really interested in talking to people that take less "known" styles of Wing Chun.  For example, Pan Nam (personally, ive met 1 person that has taken it and it was only for a 3 month period), or Fut Sao Gu Yee Chuan wing chun, Peng style, Yuen Kay-San, Leung Ting, Lo Man Kam ect...

also anyone that has had a chance to train with any of the "famous" masters like Emin Boztepe, Ip Chun, William Cheung, Eddie Chong ect...

-also if anyone takes a completely external style of wing chun (no sense of softness like karate) i'd love to pick yalls brains


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## DungHo (Mar 4, 2008)

my teacher is study under Kenneth Chung, 
Kenneth Chung is student of Leung Sheung who is student of Yip Man.

I would like to see other way of people doing wing chun. it would be interesting.


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## KamonGuy2 (Mar 5, 2008)

That is why youtube is good as it gives people a rough idea of what people do. However, never rely on it to gauge how good a teacher or school is. I have seen some bad clips done by good schools and vice versa

I hva trained under Kevin Chan for many years and I have played/fought students from Ip Chun, James Sinclair, WT, William Cheung, Andrew Sofos and Grados. All had something to offer


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## Mic (Mar 8, 2008)

I study Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. I dont think too many people have heard of this form but i could be wrong.My Sifu studys under Master Benny Meng.Our lineage holder is Grand Master Gee.


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## graychuan (Mar 8, 2008)

Woo Fai Ching System here. My Sifu is Ali Rahim. Sigung Woo Studied Choy Li Fut with Leung Sheung in thier teens and Woo studied Wing Chun with Yip Man for 2 years then for another 6 years with Leung Sheung.


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## geezer (Mar 9, 2008)

graychuan said:


> Woo Fai Ching System here. My Sifu is Ali Rahim. Sigung Woo Studied Choy Li Fut with Leung Sheung in thier teens and Woo studied Wing Chun with Yip Man for 2 years then for another 6 years with Leung Sheung.


 
Interesting. Normally Choy Li Fut is considered nearly opposite to WC. Do you incorporate any CLF moves into your system?

As for myself, I began studying the WC system of (Augustinge) Fong Chi Wing (Ho Kam Ming / Yip Man lineage), then became a student of Leung Ting in 1980. I did have the opportunity to train (ouch) with Emin Boztepe, but finally left the art for many years. I now train WT with my kung fu brothers Robert Jacquet and Master Jeff Webb in the newly formed NWTO, and eskrima ..."DTE system ...with Master Martin Torres. But, it's all good...


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## BFL (Mar 11, 2008)

Greetings,
  I study and teach both Yip Man Wing Chun (Lueng Shuen family) and Pan Nam Yong Chun.  I love and respect both lines and find them to complement each other greatly.
Peace.
BFL


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## geezer (Mar 11, 2008)

BFL said:


> Greetings,
> I study and teach both Yip Man Wing Chun (Lueng Shuen family) and Pan Nam Yong Chun. I love and respect both lines and find them to complement each other greatly.
> Peace.BFL


 
That sounds good--Can you give an example of how the two systems complement each other?


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## BFL (Mar 11, 2008)

I've been exposed to many different families of Yip Man's varied versions since the early 90's and I've found this basic system(s) to exemplify a softness or yielding of force, utilizing opponents energy etc., basically the same principles just varied application or interpretation depending on that particular lineage or school. Yip Man Wing Chun has a very scientific/geometrical approach to center line theory, simultaenious attack/defense while either playing off the opponents energy or mearly helping that energy along it's path, while delivering one's own defense/attack. Although I've seen it written, suggested, hinted at that one can perform SLT ever so slowly and practice it in a "Qiqong" mindset, it for the most part is not practiced for that purpose. The practice of Chi Sao and veried other drills does target sensitivity and proper allignment of the different techniques/positions thus creating the wedge/angle/cutting attributes so often found in Yip Man systems today. 
Pan Nam's W.C. does take a bit of a different approach being a bit looser in it's centerline theory by Y.M. standards, but once one understands the principles behind it, it truly does make sense especially after you begin the Pan Nam Chi Sao practice. Pan Nam's from the very beginning (SLT) develops the flow of Qi and utilizing "breath" energy, yes still keeping the simultaenious attack/defense principle active but with an explosive delivery of Qi/soft energy force at the point of contact. Pan Nam's utilizes a more attack from an angle, rather than creating the angle yourself and has a much more brutal delivery using veried techniques a bit different from the standard Y.M. practice. In my opinion, and that's all it is - my opinion, I feel that knowing these two versions, seemingly different, yet giving a more total/complete picture of Wing Chun and perhaps being able to see the possible evolution of this art throughout it's history. Pan Nams utilizes even more theory of "flowing with the opponent" than Yip Man's, yet Yip Man's has a more direct approach etc. I feel that Wing Chun is a training system, not necessarily a fighting system, and as training progresses so does your own personal Kung Fu, as long of course as you keep within the theories, principles and precepts of Wing Chun. Knowing both has truly brought about a ballance to my own Wing Chun, and I can flow from one attribute to the other with ease, as I feel they complement each other's energy and are able to be used together if you will, flowing within each other....after all, they're both Wing Chun.
Humblest Respects,
BFL


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## geezer (Mar 11, 2008)

BFL said:


> ...Pan Nam's from the very beginning (SLT) develops the flow of Qi and utilizing "breath" energy, yes still keeping the simultaenious attack/defense principle active but with an explosive delivery of Qi/soft energy force at the point of contact. Pan Nam's utilizes a more attack from an angle, rather than creating the angle yourself and has a much more brutal delivery...BFL[/quote
> 
> I've always been a bit of a skeptic about "QI" except as conceived within the conventional laws of physics. Within the Yip Man tradition, I've seen Leung Ting do a very slow, "internal" version of SNT and watched from right next to him as his Tan Sau turned a deep, dark red. But afterwards he more or less dismissed the importance of that effect in favor of emphasis on technique.  At any rate, it's a tough thing to prove. I've had my but kicked a lot of times, but was it truly "Qi" or just good, relaxed technique that did it?


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## BFL (Mar 11, 2008)

I agree, not saying it gives an advantage or makes it better, but I have noticed that I'm able to flow better and I feel I have greater sensitivity due to it's cultivation, if I can call it that.  Maybe it is just good relaxed technique, but I can "feel" it, for whatever benefit "it" brings about. 
Have a garooovy day.
Peace,
BFL


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## BFL (Mar 11, 2008)

and maybe good relaxed technique allows the chi/qi to flow better?


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## qwksilver61 (Mar 11, 2008)

GM Leung Tings' system of Wing Tsun under Sifu Steve Brandon.Currently I am training under the EBMAS system out of Miami Shores,Florida.


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## KamonGuy2 (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm just wary whenever i hear martial artists speak of qi or pressure points or anything like that. 

Breathing is slightly important but when you are in a fight it means absolutely nothing. I know several martial artists who breath out when they strike etc, so if the flow of the fight doesn't go their way or if they are grappled, it really messes them up. 

Pressure points are just weak points on the body, but some people out there make them sound like special buttons that of you press them your opponent will drop


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## BFL (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm not a big proponent of the whole pressure point theory or even of the whole "my chi can knock you out" kind of press.  I've seen so called "Chi Masters" get knocked on their preverbial butts when trying their whole, Knock you out with my chi B.S., again that was just one aspect of P.N.W.C.  in comparison to Y.M.W.C. of which you asked about.  Perhaps good relaxed technique is just another way of explaining chi flow? Perhaps they are the same and it merely allows you to stay relaxed and focused during a confrontation? Remaining tense or trying too much power will hinder your reactions and response time, this much I do know as fact.  One thing I know from experience is that I was unable to understand it until I experienced it.  Once I began the practice of P.N.'s Qiqong set and S.L.T., not expecting or aniticipating anything special, I actually did experience a difference in my energy/flow/exucution of techniques, but I do not believe it's something magical or makes you impervious to all injuries or gives you super powers.  I am realistic and examine everything with a sceptical eye


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## dungeonworks (Mar 13, 2008)

I recently began Yip Man style under Sifu Garner Train.  His Sifu is Ip Chun.  I been at it less than a month and *really* like it so far.  Waaaay different than anything I have studied thus far (Kickboxing, Koei-Kan-Karate-Do, Tae Kwon Do).

I was looking for an art much different than anything I have done in the past, street effective, and that I can do into ripe old age.  From what I have seen and am seeing, this is the art i was looking for and happy I found it.

Later
Gary


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## geezer (Mar 13, 2008)

dungeonworks said:


> I recently began Yip Man style under Sifu Garner Train. His Sifu is Ip Chun. I been at it less than a month and *really* like it so far. Waaaay different than anything I have studied thus far (Kickboxing, Koei-Kan-Karate-Do, Tae Kwon Do).
> I was looking for an art much different than anything I have done in the past, street effective, and that I can do into ripe old age. From what I have seen and am seeing, this is the art i was looking for and happy I found it.
> Later
> Gary


 
Tell Garner that I'm still waiting for him to send back my escrima sticks. I'll PM you with details!


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## krauser (Mar 14, 2008)

Leung Ting WingTsun - and cant say i have a choise of any other Wing Chun style.


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## geezer (Mar 14, 2008)

krauser said:


> Leung Ting WingTsun - and cant say i have a choise of any other Wing Chun style.


 
What does that mean? _Isn't there always a choice?_ My reason for choosing to study under Leung Ting for many years, _in spite of everything_, was the quality of his technique and depth of his understanding. Now I've taken another path, but I still believe that about Dr. Leung. Of course I am a nutcase. Oh well....


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## krauser (Mar 17, 2008)

geezer said:


> What does that mean? _Isn't there always a choice?_ My reason for choosing to study under Leung Ting for many years, _in spite of everything_, was the quality of his technique and depth of his understanding. Now I've taken another path, but I still believe that about Dr. Leung. Of course I am a nutcase. Oh well....



It wasnt meant as a complaint  simply where I live no other WingTsun or Wing Chun is taught.
  Cheers


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## geezer (Mar 17, 2008)

krauser said:


> It wasnt meant as a complaint  simply where I live no other WingTsun or Wing Chun is taught. Cheers


 
Thanks for the clarification. Where are you located?


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## krauser (Mar 17, 2008)

Estonia - Eastern Europe:viking2:
http://www.wiiw.ac.at/img/estonia.gif


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## geezer (Mar 17, 2008)

krauser said:


> Estonia - Eastern Europe:viking2:
> http://www.wiiw.ac.at/img/estonia.gif


 
Forgive my ignorance, but is your branch administered through the EWTO and Master Keith Kernspecht, or is Eastern Europe a different division of the IWTMAA? Either way, the high ranking WT "Practitioners" of Europe have excellent reputations (at least around here in Arizona). Keep us posted!


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## krauser (Mar 18, 2008)

geezer said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but is your branch administered through the EWTO and Master Keith Kernspecht, or is Eastern Europe a different division of the IWTMAA? Either way, the high ranking WT "Practitioners" of Europe have excellent reputations (at least around here in Arizona). Keep us posted!



We are under the E.E.W.T.A. - administered from Hungary by Maday Norbert, 8th Level.


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## graychuan (Mar 19, 2008)

geezer said:


> Interesting. Normally Choy Li Fut is considered nearly opposite to WC. Do you incorporate any CLF moves into your system?
> 
> As for myself, I began studying the WC system of (Augustinge) Fong Chi Wing (Ho Kam Ming / Yip Man lineage), then became a student of Leung Ting in 1980. I did have the opportunity to train (ouch) with Emin Boztepe, but finally left the art for many years. I now train WT with my kung fu brothers Robert Jacquet and Master Jeff Webb in the newly formed NWTO, and eskrima ..."DTE system ...with Master Martin Torres. But, it's all good...


 

No CLF that i am aware of. My Sifu said the same thing. I find this interesting also. Woo Fai Ching is the great nephew of Woo Yuen, a co founder of CLF according to our history. The origins of CLF are not concrete as with most arts but Sigung Woo is a relative of Woo Yuen.


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## Frost (Apr 23, 2008)

I am a *Fut Sao Wing Chun* practioner and Sifu in Chicago.  My sifu is James Cama from Brooklyn.

You can check out www.chicagofutsao.com for info.


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## zuti car (Apr 23, 2008)

TWC, David Cheung s version,   quite different from what William teaching now


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## qwksilver61 (Jun 4, 2008)

The EBMAS system, which I am learning to respect.I started out with the traditional Wing Tsun under Sifu Steve brandon,and was fortunate enough to have met  GGM Ting on a couple of occasions.So,while being out of the loop for a while,I came across EBMAS in Miami Lakes.Not really knowing much about their methods of training. I asked around and got the answers I was looking for,while not entirely traditional, they are teaching a more streetable Wing Tsun right off the bat.I am thoroughly pleased with their methods,also they offer Guro Rene Latosa's Escrima which is also bonus.


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## geezer (Jun 5, 2008)

qwksilver61 said:


> ...also they offer Guro Rene Latosa's Escrima which is also bonus.



*Damn straight it is!* I love Latosa Escrima. Lateley I've been doing DTE (Direct Torres Escrima) founded by a guy who studied a little with Rene...and with me, in WT back in the '80s. I'm always finding new ways to relate Wing Tsun and Escrima _concepts._


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## qwksilver61 (Jun 5, 2008)

Man! When did you hit blue belt? I'm jealous! dammit Jim!How are you Geezer?
I'm gearing up for the Aug. seminar,I feel baggy.I was just on the phone hounding my one and only student who's wife will be delivering their first baby in a couple of weeks.I'm happy for him and told him that there is no pressure on him to train.I would like to at least see him achieve his 1st student level when Sifu Emin arrives.He's still in infant stage,but at least interested.Me I'm just tired of training alone,Miami is miles away from central Flo.I have even entertained the Idea of a Mook Jong.On hold at least for now.


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## qwksilver61 (Jun 6, 2008)

I wanted to add,anyone else here experiencing training alone? or at a  great distance?


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## naneek (Jun 7, 2008)

lo man kam, been training for about 1 and a half years and lovin it!!!


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## bs10927 (Nov 24, 2008)

has anybody studied from Jason Lau -> Alan Goldberg?


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## bs10927 (Nov 24, 2008)

sorry if i posted my question twice.


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## Gurokevin (Dec 1, 2008)

I am a Wong Shun Leung guy. But have also been in the Leung Ting, & TWC groups too.


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## Bodhisattva (Dec 1, 2008)

Methos said:


> ok i admit the title is sortof misleading, im really interested in talking to people that take less "known" styles of Wing Chun.  For example, Pan Nam (personally, ive met 1 person that has taken it and it was only for a 3 month period), or Fut Sao Gu Yee Chuan wing chun, Peng style, Yuen Kay-San, Leung Ting, Lo Man Kam ect...
> 
> also anyone that has had a chance to train with any of the "famous" masters like Emin Boztepe, Ip Chun, William Cheung, Eddie Chong ect...
> 
> -also if anyone takes a completely external style of wing chun (no sense of softness like karate) i'd love to pick yalls brains



Our style of trapping is known as Greco Roman


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 4, 2008)

Interesting I study Yuen Kay San Lineage of Yong Chun!


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## Yuen Kay Jun (Mar 30, 2017)

Yuen Kay San Lineage


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## DanT (Mar 30, 2017)

-My Sifu learned from Wong Shun Leung, Chu Shon Tin, and Sunny Tang, meaning I get stuff from those three lineages from him. 

-I've also studied TWC from a private student of William Cheung, who also studied Pan Nam Wing Chun

So in total a combination of:
-Chu Shon Tin
-Wong Shun Leung
-Moy Yat (Sunny Tang)
-William Cheung
-Pan Nam

I should add that the differences aren't that big between these at an advanced level. Pan Nam is the most different and from what I've seen focuses more on striking under the bridge and uses deeper stances. Also the weapons are more diverse.


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## Yuen Kay Jun (Mar 30, 2017)

Yuen Kay Jun said:


> Yuen Kay San Lineage



Sorry.  Neglected to be complete in my wing chun.  

Hong Kong Wing Chun:
via Dave Grago who learned from Sam Wing, Leung ting, William cheung and Mok Poi On of PFL WCK. 

Yuen Kay San WCK:

From bob McDonald, Lee chun Ming, Kwok wan ping, sum nung, Yuen Kay San.


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## ShortBridge (Mar 30, 2017)

bs10927 said:


> has anybody studied from Jason Lau -> Alan Goldberg?



I know a guy who did for a bit. Spoke very highly of him and has some good stuff.


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## jhexx (Apr 2, 2017)

I practice Wong Shun leung/ Jiu Wan and Wang Kiu Wc.
Wsl i got from my father. I learned Jiu Wan lineage for a few months at a school run by sifu Herb Schmieder, who learned under Jason Lau and Miguel Hernandez. Then when i lived in Colorado i learned Wang Kiu under one of two students who was trained under Herber Maier. So my interpretation of Wc is a combination of the three.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

DungHo said:


> my teacher is study under Kenneth Chung,
> Kenneth Chung is student of Leung Sheung who is student of Yip Man.
> 
> I would like to see other way of people doing wing chun. it would be interesting.


 
I was happy to see this. I have been feeling pretty lonely on this board because if there is anyone else from the Leung Sheung lineage, they have not announced themselves. LOL (Then again, I know Xue Sheng studied it.) Anyway, I learn from a gentleman named Larry London, who studied under Jack Ling. (He also learned from Augustine Fong.) So I am also learning the Leung Sheung lineage.


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## Vajramusti (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I was happy to see this. I have been feeling pretty lonely on this board because if there is anyone else from the Leung Sheung lineage, they have not announced themselves. LOL (Then again, I know Xue Sheng studied it.) Anyway, I learn from a gentleman named Larry London, who studied under Jack Ling. (He also learned from Augustine Fong.) So I am also learning the Leung Sheung lineage.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been doing Ip Man/Ho Kam ming/Augustine Fong wing chun every day since 1976. Ho Kam Ming studied directly with Ip Man since 1955--private lessons for many years and stayed in touch with him regularly till the day Ip Man died. I was lucky- I lived in Tucson when I found sifu Fong.
I moved to New Mexico and kept driving to Tucson on weekends for classes and private lessons, Then I moved back to Arizona-Tempe but drive to Tucson often. Was there last Saturday for one day of his annual 4 day seminars and the annual reunion banquet.
Wing chun people in Macao have published a 50 year commemoration book of Ho Kam Ming's wing chun loaded with pictures -includes many shots of Ip Man visiting Ho Kam Ming's school and  also of Fong who brought Ho Kam Ming wing chun to the US.


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## DanT (May 1, 2017)

Vajramusti said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I have been doing Ip Man/Ho Kam ming/Augustine Fong wing chun every day since 1976. Ho Kam Ming studied directly with Ip Man since 1955--private lessons for many years and stayed in touch with him regularly till the day Ip Man died. I was lucky- I lived in Tucson when I found sifu Fong.
> I moved to New Mexico and kept driving to Tucson on weekends for classes and private lessons, Then I moved back to Arizona-Tempe but drive to Tucson often. Was there last Saturday for one day of his annual 4 day seminars and the annual reunion banquet.
> Wing chun people in Macao have published a 50 year commemoration book of Ho Kam Ming's wing chun loaded with pictures -includes many shots of Ip Man visiting Ho Kam Ming's school and  also of Fong who brought Ho Kam Ming wing chun to the US.


Can you tell us some unique characteristics of HKM wing chun? 

Also do you know the Windy City wing chun ppl?


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## Jim Roselando (May 1, 2017)

I train and teach Dr. Leung Jan's Pin Sun Wing Chun.


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## Vajramusti (May 1, 2017)

DanT said:


> Can you tell us some unique characteristics of HKM wing chun?
> 
> Also do you know the Windy City wing chun ppl?


----------------------------------------------
Yes, I do know Ed de la Cruz and his partner at Windy City wing chun. HKM;s wing chun always strives for balance, no unnecessary muscle tension,
square body9not slant body), clear gravitational center line among many other things.


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## yak sao (May 1, 2017)

Jim Roselando said:


> I train and teach Dr. Leung Jan's Pin Sun Wing Chun.



Hi Jim,
Welcome to the forum. I've heard you on some podcasts and love your insight into the history of Wing Chun.


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## Jim Roselando (May 1, 2017)

yak sao said:


> Hi Jim,
> Welcome to the forum. I've heard you on some podcasts and love your insight into the history of Wing Chun.




Nice to meet you.  Thank you for the kind words!


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## beginerboy1 (May 7, 2017)

KamonGuy2 said:


> That is why youtube is good as it gives people a rough idea of what people do. However, never rely on it to gauge how good a teacher or school is. I have seen some bad clips done by good schools and vice versa
> 
> I hva trained under Kevin Chan for many years and I have played/fought students from Ip Chun, James Sinclair, WT, William Cheung, Andrew Sofos and Grados. All had something to offer


Hi there what do you know about James Sinclair? as I  have also come across his schools.


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## geezer (May 7, 2017)

beginerboy1 said:


> Hi there what do you know about James Sinclair? as I  have also come across his schools.



The guy you are addressing hasn't posted in years. Maybe someone else can help?


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## yak sao (May 10, 2017)

Jim Roselando said:


> Nice to meet you.  Thank you for the kind words!



Hey Jim, do you do any out-of-state seminars?


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## Jim Roselando (May 10, 2017)

yak sao said:


> Hey Jim, do you do any out-of-state seminars?



Hello, Yes sir.  I'll reply to you via email.   Greetz from Boston!


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## wckf92 (May 12, 2017)

yak sao said:


> Hey Jim, do you do any out-of-state seminars?



Keep us posted yak!


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## yak sao (May 12, 2017)

wckf92 said:


> Keep us posted yak!



I will.


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## Parky (May 16, 2017)

I started Chu Shong Tin Wing Chun in 1994. Looked at and dabbled in other WC lines, as well as a dash of JKD. And eventually came back to Chu Shong Tin WC. I both practice and teach it.


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## Bino TWT (Aug 5, 2017)

I am of the Leung Ting Wing Tsun lineage, and I have trained both the EWTO & the Hong Kong (IWTA) side of the system. I have also trained with many skilled practitioners from various lineages (Leung Sheung/Kenneth Cheung, Duncan Leung, Moy Yat, Hawkins Cheung, Gary Lam, Yip Ching, Wang Kiu, and Shaolin, etc.). 

I'll be training with Leung Ting this October. And I have trained personally with Kenneth Cheung.


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