# Review and thoughts, please



## theletch1 (Oct 13, 2008)

Here's a link to a kenpo school in my area.  I'd like a review from you kenpo folks on his site.  Get a bad vibe?  Get a good vibe?  Everything seem alright?  Thanks in advance.


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## Jdokan (Oct 13, 2008)

I think the thing to do is go...take some lessons and draw your own conclusion.....I tell people don't sign any type of contract until you are 100% sure of what you're getting into...Personally, I don't like contracts...but if it saves you some cash...ok....
Nothing better than time in the art.....go takes classes and have fun!  You'll know soon enough if you want to continue...


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## Tez3 (Oct 13, 2008)

The little verse at the beginning confuses me a bit, is it a spelling problem, a twist on words or what? it says his hands will bare him out, does he mean bear him out? sorry it's a bit picky I know but it caught my eye and I can't shake it off to look at the rest  of the site lol! ( you know when you get a tune stuck in your head and can't get rid of it however much it annoys you ...it's like that)


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## arnisador (Oct 13, 2008)

> KENPO KARATE is the most fiercest, brutal and practical of all the martial arts styles. Its history and lineage dates back centuries. Kenpo was design and created for WAR (period) In a time when war and battles were waging through villages and fields, It is a war art. (that is the tradition to our wearing of the Black Gi (uniform), it symbolizes death.
> [...]
> We teach the Tracy System of Kenpo



I would say that the web site raises some concerns in my mind.


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## jks9199 (Oct 13, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I would say that the web site raises some concerns in my mind.


I'd have to agree.  I'm not a kenpoist... but I get kind of curious when someone "earns their black belt" a year or more before they reach "shodan (first degree black belt)."

What's bringing them up for you Letch?


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## CoryKS (Oct 13, 2008)

He certainly has a strong grasp of the Tracy style of color saturation.


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## Brian Jones (Oct 13, 2008)

A lot of what is on thre seesm to come straight from the Tracy Site. Which makes it neither good or bad, I am just observing.  Just know that what Tracy Schools teach is a bit different than what Ed Parker's American Kenpo (EPAK) teaches.  Won't go into that here, there are plenty of threads that talk about this on the forum.
  As far as having the "year wait" to receive your shodan; this sounds very similar to what some Modern Arnis schools do. You are given a probationary Black Belt first, then officially awarded your Black Belt later. Again, if you go to the Modern Arnis forum and look for probationary black belt you will find a discussion.
  All in all, go check out the school yourself.   It's the only way to know.

Brian Jones


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## celtic_crippler (Oct 13, 2008)

Well....aside from the grammatical errors....lol

Master Dave Simmons was pretty well known and respected, even by non-Tracy kenpoist...not sure about Mr. Perez or his affiliation with Master Simmons. 

The color scheme comment made me laugh...thanks CoryKS. 

Anyway, the bottom line is you can't really judge the school or the quality of instruction by the website. Go in and get on the mat with them. Take it around the block and kick the tires, then make up your mind.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 13, 2008)

hmmm...  I find the presentation of the website to be unfortunate, including the loud color combos and stuff.  That's personal taste.

I don't understand the distinction they are making between first black belt and shodan.  In my experience in Tracy kenpo we have never made a distinction, and we use the Yudansha terminology of dan grades, and not first degree, second degree, etc.  So why they are using both and expressing the thought that one would earn a black belt rank and then earn a shodan later, is a mystery to me.

That aside, I do know that Tracy Kenpo is an excellent system.  However, like any system, there are excellent instructors and lousy instructors.  I do not know these people, and I cannot judge them.  They may be good, they may be lousy.  Go try it out and see what you think.  Based on the system, the potential is there for it to be excellent.  Whether or not they are able to deliver the goods is another matter.


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## Jim Hanna (Oct 13, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Here's a link to a kenpo school in my area. I'd like a review from you kenpo folks on his site. Get a bad vibe? Get a good vibe? Everything seem alright? Thanks in advance.


 

If you are looking for traditonal kenpo in the Tracy System then Mr Perez will fill the bill.  I know that he has received training from one of the seniors in the Tracy system (Pat Munk) which should, in and of itself, be a pretty good endorsement.

He also seems to be moving in the direction that Mr Tracy is promulgating, i.e., Tai Chi, the restorative arts, yoga, etc.  These aspects of the martial arts are meant to more fully develop the kenpo practitioner as a  person--the warrior/scholar concept that is "talked about" so often.

Jim


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## KenpoDave (Oct 13, 2008)

You have to assume that most MA websites are designed and maintained by professional artists.  Martial artists, not graphic/multimedia artists.  I do my own site, although I do get some input from my son who does this type or work professionally.

That said, you need to judge Mr. Perez and the instruction offered at his school by meeting Mr. Perez and receiving at least some instruction at his school.  He teaches a solid system and has a solid, respected instructor.  I have not run across any of Pat Munk's guys that do not know their stuff.  The bottom line, no matter how good he is, is whether his style (of instruction) and methods have value to you.

The black belt/shodan thing...Tracy's follows the yudansha and uses -dan grading to indicate black belt ranks.  Apparently, Mr. Perez issues a probationary black belt and requires some "time in grade" before issuing a full -dan grade under the authority of the yudanshakai.  Not widely practiced in Tracy's, but not unheard of, either.


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## John Bishop (Oct 13, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> I'd have to agree.  I'm not a kenpoist... but I get kind of curious when someone "earns their black belt" a year or more before they reach "shodan (first degree black belt)."
> 
> What's bringing them up for you Letch?



It's a pretty common practice in Kajukenbo and some of the Hawaiian Kenpo systems.  A student is promoted to "student black" and does a probation of 1 year before receiving their 1st degree certificate.  
Purpose is to instill in the student that the serious learning is just beginning and not ending at black belt.


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## theletch1 (Oct 14, 2008)

I posted this out of sheer curiosity.  I remember the school from 5 or 6 years ago as a Universal Kempo Karate school.  I noticed that the sign had changed and was curious what ya'll thought.  Thanks for the input.


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## Twin Fist (Oct 14, 2008)

I use the probationary black, or "student black" belt in my school too. It isnt that uncommon.

i dont like the website, BUT that doesnt mean the schoolisnt good. Try it out. Tracy kenpo is a dynamic, comprehensive style.


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 14, 2008)

What bothers me is the claim





> *WE ARE THE ONLY ONE TEACHING TRADITIONAL KENPO IN VIRGINIA!!!*


 
That is a large claim to make in a state the size of Virginia.


Also I see the head instructor claims rank in various systems but ccives no background on whom he studied with and ranks recieved


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## celtic_crippler (Oct 14, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> What bothers me is the claim
> 
> That is a large claim to make in a state the size of Virginia.
> 
> ...


 

It was mentioned earlier that he recieved training from Pat Munk. I know Mr. Munk is legit, but I wonder to what degree he gave Mr. Perez "training?"


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## MJS (Oct 14, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Here's a link to a kenpo school in my area. I'd like a review from you kenpo folks on his site. Get a bad vibe? Get a good vibe? Everything seem alright? Thanks in advance.


 
I guess I'll have to defer to the opinions of the Tracy members who're more familiar with this guy, his school and his training history.  As far as the probationary BB goes...some arts do use it.  My Arnis group uses the prob. BB.  IMO, I wouldn't get too hung up on that.  Like I always say, its the skill that matters, not the belt.


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## KenpoDave (Oct 14, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> What bothers me is the claim
> 
> That is a large claim to make in a state the size of Virginia.
> 
> ...


 
To my knowledge, Tracy's is the only system that uses the phrase, "traditional kenpo" to describe what we teach.  I could be wrong.  But Mr. Perez and his student who owns the school in Hampton are the only Tracy's Kenpo schools in the state.

Was Mr. Perez the owner of the school when it was Universal Kempo Karate?  Or has he moved into a location that just happened to be a studio in a past life?


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## theletch1 (Oct 15, 2008)

KenpoDave said:


> To my knowledge, Tracy's is the only system that uses the phrase, "traditional kenpo" to describe what we teach.  I could be wrong.  But Mr. Perez and his student who owns the school in Hampton are the only Tracy's Kenpo schools in the state.
> 
> Was Mr. Perez the owner of the school when it was Universal Kempo Karate?  Or has he moved into a location that just happened to be a studio in a past life?


I'm fairly certain he was a UKKS instructor last time I was in that area.  That was around 2003.


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## ackks10 (Oct 16, 2008)

WOW!!! look at what we have become,i don't think we should be throwing people under the bus,because of his web site, or what he said about teaching kenpo in Virgina,now i don't know this guy,but i did know [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]*Master Dave Simmons
(rip) *[/FONT] and i think that if someone has a problem with this person than ,,what is the saying  go and "take the bull by the horns" and i have to agree with FC, about Tracy kenpo, that's what i started in back in 65,and as for the black belt and the shodan, well it is what it is,,


BTW the only way I would be upset with this guy is if he was not teaching kenpo ,but saying he was, now that's a horse of a different color.:jaw-dropping:


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## student of the game (Jul 23, 2012)

theletch1 said:


> I posted this out of sheer curiosity.  I remember the school from 5 or 6 years ago as a Universal Kempo Karate school.  I noticed that the sign had changed and was curious what ya'll thought.  Thanks for the input.



Greetings I am new to this site but have been involved in Kenpo for over 20 years.  The school in question used to be a part of the Universal Kempo Karate Association its chief instructor was Mr Chris Rigone, who is a student of Professor Buell.  When the sign changed on the school I asked one of the instructors which had competed at the commonwealth games were they all changing to Tracy's Kenpo?  His only answer was you're joking, right?  I have invited Mr. Perez and his students to tournaments on many occasions to never receive a response of any kind.  I once asked if I could observe a class and was told classes were for students and instructors of his school only.  
That is all I can say about that hope it helps in some shape or fashion


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## student of the game (Jul 23, 2012)

KenpoDave said:


> To my knowledge, Tracy's is the only system that uses the phrase, "traditional kenpo" to describe what we teach.  I could be wrong.  But Mr. Perez and his student who owns the school in Hampton are the only Tracy's Kenpo schools in the state.
> 
> Was Mr. Perez the owner of the school when it was Universal Kempo Karate?  Or has he moved into a location that just happened to be a studio in a past life?



Yes Mr. Perez was the owner when it was Universal Kempo


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## Tez3 (Jul 23, 2012)

student of the game said:


> Greetings I am new to this site but have been involved in Kenpo for over 20 years. The school in question used to be a part of the Universal Kempo Karate Association its chief instructor was Mr Chris Rigone, who is a student of Professor Buell. When the sign changed on the school I asked *one of the instructors which had competed at the commonwealth games* were they all changing to Tracy's Kenpo? His only answer was you're joking, right? I have invited Mr. Perez and his students to tournaments on many occasions to never receive a response of any kind. I once asked if I could observe a class and was told classes were for students and instructors of his school only.
> That is all I can say about that hope it helps in some shape or fashion



Being nosy here, what sport were they doing and what country did they represent in the Commonwealth Games? Always enjoy them and they are in Scotland next time.


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## Yondanchris (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a few observations: 

- No videos or pictures of training

- No lineage or list of associations 

as has been said before, DO NOT sign a contract until you are comfortable with the instructor and the classes. 
Be sure to take advantage of any introductory program or trial lessons.

Chris


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## student of the game (Jul 23, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Being nosy here, what sport were they doing and what country did they represent in the Commonwealth Games? Always enjoy them and they are in Scotland next time.



The Commonwealth games is the Virginia State Olympics


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