# Miyama-ryu Jujutsu & GM. Antonio Pereira



## jujutsu_indonesia

I rummaged through my sensei's video collection and found Miyama-ryu Combat Jujutsu, which I found to be an excellent modern system of Jujutsu. Anybody here care to share some more background info about this style? 

It is said that GM. Pereira studied some Judo with Kyuzo Mifone and Aikido with Kishomaru Uyeshiba, mixed in some Kenpo Karate and created Miyama-ryu. So this is a Judo+Karate+Aikido mix, 

However many of its techniques looks very much like some of the Jujutsu Ryuha that my sensei are doing (Hakko-ryu, Takagi  Yoshin-ryu, Shindo Yoshin-ryu etc)..techniques that does not present in Judo, Karate and Aikido..


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## Nanalo74

My grandfather received his black belt in Miyama Ryu from GM Pereira back in the day. There is a website with a bio and history. Check it out.

www.miyamaryu.org

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## terryl965

Nanalo74 said:
			
		

> My grandfather received his black belt in Miyama Ryu from GM Pereira back in the day. There is a website with a bio and history. Check it out.
> 
> www.miyamaryu.org
> 
> Vic www.combatartsusa.com


 
Thank you for the link pretty well done. I love to learn about other areas.
terry


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## jujutsu_indonesia

That's wonderful, thanks for the links. So Pereira sensei studied some Sosuishi-ryu as well. Wonderful.


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## Nanalo74

Always willing to help out. 

Vic www.combatartsusa.com


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Just curious but does the Miyama-ryu Dojos still teach the Sosuishi-ryu Katas?

I have the Combat Aiki Jujutsu video from Mr. Rahming but it doesn't have any classical Idori techniques. 

Nevertheless, I must say the techniques in the Video there is very no-nonsense Jujutsu, very effective.


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## Saitama Steve

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> That's wonderful, thanks for the links. So Pereira sensei studied some Sosuishi-ryu as well. Wonderful.


 
He only studied Sosuishi-ryu very briefly. He was appointed representative for Sosuishi-ryu in America, but the appointment retracted and then given to Mr. Dennis Fink in New York City.


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## JAMJTX

I am very surprised to see people saying positive things about Miyama Ryu.  There is a guy named Cuffee here in the U.S., affiliated with the United States Martial Arts Association of Phil Porter who teaches/sells this and he is my only direct experience with the style.
I first learned of him when he ridiculed me on e-budo for accetpting a Judo ranking from Mr. Porter.  Then one day I found his Miyama Ryu ranking listed on the USMAA web site, which I thought was rather peculiar.  

Does Mr. Pereira recognize Cuffee as a legit teacher?  Is he also affiliated with Mr. Porter?


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## jujutsu_indonesia

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> I am very surprised to see people saying positive things about Miyama Ryu. There is a guy named Cuffee here in the U.S., affiliated with the United States Martial Arts Association of Phil Porter who teaches/sells this and he is my only direct experience with the style.
> I first learned of him when he ridiculed me on e-budo for accetpting a Judo ranking from Mr. Porter. Then one day I found his Miyama Ryu ranking listed on the USMAA web site, which I thought was rather peculiar.
> 
> Does Mr. Pereira recognize Cuffee as a legit teacher? Is he also affiliated with Mr. Porter?


 
Mr. Pereira has passed away several years ago, so I guess we have to ask the current head of the system, Mr. Rahming, about it. I am sure the information is on their website. I think I'll just google in the name "Rahming Miyama Ryu" and see what happens..


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## JAMJTX

Oddly enough, I was also criticized by some friends of Cuffee for my affiliation with the AFJ.  I saw today that Cuffee's name also appears on thier list of instructors.
Organizations like the AFJ draw some fire because they are open and try to take people at thier word and some times people take advantage of that.
That many not be the case with Cuffee.  But it seems odd to me that he would accuse me of buying ranks on the internet and then I see his name on the web sites of the same organizations.

Given what people here have said about Miyama Ryu, I would assume that Cuffe is not what he claims to be.


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## Makalakumu

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> Given what people here have said about Miyama Ryu, I would assume that Cuffe is not what he claims to be.


 
Mr. Cuffe is *Elder999* on MT.  Maybe he'll come and explain more about Miyama Ryu to us.


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## Saitama Steve

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> That's wonderful, thanks for the links. So Pereira sensei studied some Sosuishi-ryu as well. Wonderful.


 
For more information on Sosuishi-ryu (Also pronounced Sosuishitsu-ryu), check http://homepage.mac.com/maos/sousui/ - Tokyo Dojo  

http://www.sosuishitsuryu.com/  - Tokyo Dojo English website

http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/sosuishi.html - Guide to Sosuishi-ryu

and http://www.nyseibukan.com/index.html - New York Seibukan Sosuishi-ryu dojo


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## Fightfan00

Wow guys thanks for the links to these great sites.Theres some great info to learn from them


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## elder999

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> Oddly enough, I was also criticized by some friends of Cuffee for my affiliation with the AFJ. I saw today that Cuffee's name also appears on thier list of instructors.
> Organizations like the AFJ draw some fire because they are open and try to take people at thier word and some times people take advantage of that.
> That many not be the case with Cuffee. But it seems odd to me that he would accuse me of buying ranks on the internet and then I see his name on the web sites of the same organizations.
> 
> Given what people here have said about Miyama Ryu, I would assume that Cuffe is not what he claims to be.


 
Do we really need to go there again, Jim?

Have a look  here

and
 here.

now, do I need to accuse you of _selling_ rank on the internet, on a forum that you _haven't been kicked off of yet,_(there's a reason your reputation has been disabled, or have you forgotten?) or are you going to leave well enough alone? This thread isn't about me-or *you*-and it doesn't at all need to be.......
<popeyegrumblemodeon>_theresaprettyfinecaseofpeopleinglassouthousesthrowingblackkettles_<popeyegrumblemodeoff>


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## JAMJTX

I already asked for this account to be closed.  It seems I have time for 1 last post.

We do video tape classes for tapes to be sent to distant students.  But my web site very clearly states that there must be some class/seminar attendance for rankings.  www.jimmccoy.com/shindokan.cfm See distant students.  Some people just lie about everything.

The reputation was disabled due to abuses.  I don't need to have everyone agree with me to feel better about myself and on't really care if others disagree.  The mods here are well aware that the rep system gets abused.

I likely won't be back to MT until the Spring when I may have more free time.  Feel free to contact me through the web site if you have any questions.  Also check the site soon for some big announcements (if interested of course).


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## Saitama Steve

Enough please. 

Noone wants to re-read the disagreements that have occured previously on other fora. 

Leave it be.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Saitama Steve said:
			
		

> For more information on Sosuishi-ryu (Also pronounced Sosuishitsu-ryu), check http://homepage.mac.com/maos/sousui/ - Tokyo Dojo
> 
> http://www.sosuishitsuryu.com/ - Tokyo Dojo English website
> 
> http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/sosuishi.html - Guide to Sosuishi-ryu
> 
> and http://www.nyseibukan.com/index.html - New York Seibukan Sosuishi-ryu dojo


 
Thank you for the links, Steve san! 

Are you a practitioner of Sosuishi-ryu?


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## elder999

Saitama Steve said:
			
		

> Enough please.
> 
> Noone wants to re-read the disagreements that have occured previously on other fora.
> 
> Leave it be.


 
Agreed-but I didn't start it.I apologize for the thread drift that someone else felt was necessary.

At least he's consistent.

 In any case, while not the authority, I'd be more than willing to answer questions and share my impressions of Miyama ryu for those who are interested.


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## Makalakumu

elder999 said:
			
		

> In any case, while not the authority, I'd be more than willing to answer questions and share my impressions of Miyama ryu for those who are interested.


 
Is Miyama Ryu comparable to Dan Zan Ryu?  What specifically characterizes Miyama Ryu?


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## jujutsu_indonesia

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Is Miyama Ryu comparable to Dan Zan Ryu? What specifically characterizes Miyama Ryu?


 
Danzan-ryu is like old Judo, like Judo as done before WWII. Much of the techniques of Judo is there but done differently and reflects the older Jujutsu systems.

Miyama is much more modern and very street-smart, very effective and to the point.


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## elder999

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Is Miyama Ryu comparable to Dan Zan Ryu? What specifically characterizes Miyama Ryu?



I should say first off that all opinions offered are my own, and your mileage will vary-I'm not the authority on Miyama ryu.

I don't have a lot of familiarity with danzan-ryu, and what I do have is chiefly through brief contact with Small-circle jujutsu people. However, they both use some of  the judo gokkyo no waza, and that's one similarity.



			
				jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Danzan-ryu is like old Judo, like Judo as done before WWII. Much of the techniques of Judo is there but done differently and reflects the older Jujutsu systems.
> 
> Miyama is much more modern and very street-smart, very effective and to the point.


 
Interestingly, I've often described Miyama-ryu as like "old-time judo," "pre-WWII judo, " or what used to be called "dirty judo." You're right though, Miyama-ryu kata are geared towards western street crime, and this is one chief characterization, along with a more "rough and tumble" method of practice than other styles of jujutsu.


Ths syllabus through 1st kyu is available on the website, as well as several other Miyama-ryu school's webpages, and there are some differences in practice from teacher to teacher, depending upon when and by whom they were trained, and what other training they've had.

Some practitioners are learning/practicing sosuishitsu ryu kata, and some are learning SMR jo. Some have moved on to other arts, or have done other arts all along, so there is some variation, regionally and personally. Being one of the few practitioners west of the Mississipi, I've had fairly limited contact with my extended Miyama ryu family and I have Jim McCoy to thank for getting us back in touch.......ironically.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

elder999 said:
			
		

> Interestingly, I've often described Miyama-ryu as like "old-time judo," "pre-WWII judo, " or what used to be called "dirty judo."


 
Umm.. the Miyama video I watch has no "dirty" moves at all, all the demonstrator moves very well, very smoothly, not sloppy at all. There are many karate-like strikes and kicks, and many techniques which are closer to Aikido than to Judo. I think Danzan is much closer to old Judo than Miyama.

Anyway, I am glad you agree with me that Miyama-ryu is very effective modern jujutsu system. This kind of jujutsu should be taught to the military and bodyguards.


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## elder999

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Umm.. the Miyama video I watch has no "dirty" moves at all, all the demonstrator moves very well, very smoothly, not sloppy at all. There are many karate-like strikes and kicks, and many techniques which are closer to Aikido than to Judo. I think Danzan is much closer to old Judo than Miyama.
> 
> Anyway, I am glad you agree with me that Miyama-ryu is very effective modern jujutsu system. This kind of jujutsu should be taught to the military and bodyguards.


 
It's an old expression, "dirty judo"-doesn't mean sloppy so much as effective. It comes from the WWII combatives programs which had their foundation in Judo-a tradition which the founder was part of.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

elder999 said:
			
		

> It's an old expression, "dirty judo"-doesn't mean sloppy so much as effective. It comes from the WWII combatives programs which had their foundation in Judo-a tradition which the founder was part of.


 
Oh I am sorry sir, English is not my 1st language so I think I havent recognized all the peculiar terms yet 

I got to say though, Miyama has evolved way beyond Judo, it has lots of techniques which can't be found in Judo. I think Mr. Pereira deserved to be considered as one of the pioneers of "Made in USA" style of Jujutsu, along with Prof. Wally Jay and many others.


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## green meanie

elder999 said:
			
		

> The syllabus through 1st kyu is available on the website, as well as several other Miyama-ryu school's webpages, and there are some differences in practice from teacher to teacher, depending upon when and by whom they were trained, and what other training they've had.


 
Can you please re-post a link to the website? I'm a dummy and can't seem to find it. Thanks!


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## elder999

The links were embedded in the word " here " in my first post, as well as here.


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## arnisador

The real question of lineage and authority here, is: Who's going to be running Los Alamos? California, or Texas?


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## elder999

arnisador said:
			
		

> The real question of lineage and authority here, is: Who's going to be running Los Alamos? California, or Texas?


 
The Department of Energy will announce that the University of California won the contract tommorrow......of course, I don't really know that, as I'm officially on leave from the Lab while I do....something else......


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## arnisador

Ah, OK. Here at Sandia in Albuquerque the big news is the stolen explosives...and the requirement to save energy by keeping the buildings at an Arctic temperature (a policy that figures into 98% of recent e-mails from administrators).

Sorry, I'll stop taking this off-topic! I have to run to a quantum computing mini-course soon anyway. Fun stuff.

Back to jujutsu...


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## green meanie

elder999 said:
			
		

> The links were embedded in the word " here " in my first post, as well as here.


 
Yay! Thanks.


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## brothershaw

I believe the word dirty is often used to describe arts that are more directly aggressive towards an attacker, and try to damage/ injure anything within reach as fast as possible.
And that is not a bad thing at all.


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## elder999

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> I already asked for this account to be closed. It seems I have time for 1 last post.
> *-snip!-*
> 
> Some people just lie about everything.
> 
> The reputation was disabled due to abuses.


 
 Bwahaha!



			
				jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> I got to say though, Miyama has evolved way beyond Judo, it has lots of techniques which can't be found in Judo.


 
With all due respect to the founder and Miyama ryu-my personal martial arts foundation since 1983, BTW- it's probably more accurate to point out how Judo has devolved into something that most practitioners teach and "play" as a sport-while some Judo people still train with plenty of (wink of the eye at JAMJTX) _goshin jutsu_, most of the Judo we see today, sadly does not. ....there are more than a few techniques found in Miyama ryu that "can't be found in Judo," but some of them used to be......


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## jujutsu_indonesia

elder999 said:
			
		

> With all due respect to the founder and Miyama ryu-my personal martial arts foundation since 1983, BTW- it's probably more accurate to point out how Judo has devolved into something that most practitioners teach and "play" as a sport-while some Judo people still train with plenty of _goshin jutsu_, most of the Judo we see today, sadly does not. ....there are more than a few techniques found in Miyama ryu that "can't be found in Judo," but some of them used to be......


 
Yes, my sensei told me that pre WWII Judo still retains techniques which we will recognize at Jujutsu, but after WWII has been forgotten. This is very true because here in Indones we have Judo Sandans who never heard of "Kime Shiki" or "Kodokan Goshin Jutsu". Which is ironic because Kodokan Goshin Jutsu was created in 1956 by Tomiki sensei   it's not even 100 years old!


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## Saitama Steve

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Yes, my sensei told me that pre WWII Judo still retains techniques which we will recognize at Jujutsu, but after WWII has been forgotten. This is very true because here in Indones we have Judo Sandans who never heard of "Kime Shiki" or "Kodokan Goshin Jutsu". Which is ironic because Kodokan Goshin Jutsu was created in 1956 by Tomiki sensei  it's not even 100 years old!


 
Denny, just because it is like that in Indonesia, it doesn't mean that it is the same situation in other countries. Granted, the Kime Shiki is rather rare to find, but it is still taught if you know where to go. Kodokan Goshinjutsu isn't taught until godan or rokudan, so your sandan friends haven't gotten that far yet.


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Saitama Steve said:
			
		

> Denny, just because it is like that in Indonesia, it doesn't mean that it is the same situation in other countries. Granted, the Kime Shiki is rather rare to find, but it is still taught if you know where to go. Kodokan Goshinjutsu isn't taught until godan or rokudan, so your sandan friends haven't gotten that far yet.


 
Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those".


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## Saitama Steve

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those".


 
Ah OK, that is a BIG difference, they should have at least heard of those kata. 

Merry Christmas all.


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## elder999

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those".


 
Somehow missed this-in Miyama ryu we perform the first 15 moves of Kodokan Goshinjutsu  kata for 1st kyu.


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## bignick

Students start learning pieces of the Goshin Jutsu kata at white belt in my dojo...


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## elder999

bignick said:
			
		

> Students start learning pieces of the Goshin Jutsu kata at white belt in my dojo...


 
Well, yeah that'd be true in just about any jujutsu or judo dojo, wouldn't it?


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## jujutsu_indonesia

elder999 said:
			
		

> Somehow missed this-in Miyama ryu we perform the first 15 moves of Kodokan Goshinjutsu kata for 1st kyu.


 
wow, that's very good. I hope this trend will also spread to Judo dojos!


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## KenpoMD

I trained in Miyama-ryu some years ago in college. I found it a fun and practical martial art. It teaches good, straightforward self-defense. For those who are interested the group I used to be affiliated with has a website with a lot of info and some videos. For those who are interested... 

www.paracombatives.org 

Enjoy!


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## jujutsu_indonesia

glad to know you enjoy training in Miyama. It is one of the top-notch, Made in USA Jujutsu system. Very effective.


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## Darth F.Takeda

My sensei, Dave Lamond started with Pereira, and from what I gathered he was one evil dude.
That's a positive to me by the way,  as  we also study the art of Takeda Sogaku, another evil dude.


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