# G'day from Down Under



## gucia6 (Apr 9, 2018)

Hello Everyone!

After search for some nice MA forum I decided to join here.

My serious adventure with martial arts started in Jan this year with Kenpo, thou I also considered Krav Maga, but eventually decided on the Japanese MA.
(I say serious, because I always wanted to do it, but was lacking opportunity and courage to join )

I hope to have a good time here, meet nice people, learn interesting stuff.


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## CB Jones (Apr 9, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> After search for some nice MA forum I decided to join here.
> 
> ...



Another Aussie....there goes the neighborhood.



jk....welcome to MT.


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## Martial D (Apr 9, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> After search for some nice MA forum I decided to join here.
> 
> ...


Here you will find some of the most knowledgeable people you will ever talk to in a wide variety of martial disciplines. Welcome aboard.


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## Headhunter (Apr 9, 2018)

Welcome...have to ask what style of kenpo because I've only known kenpo as a Chinese or American martial art not Japanese


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## _Simon_ (Apr 9, 2018)

Ah g'day and welcome, yes another Aussie! I'm from Geelong (Victoria), great to have you on board 

Yeah it's always so tricky that first step and courage of joining haha, I'm struggling with that at the moment!

Hope you enjoy the forums


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## gucia6 (Apr 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Welcome...have to ask what style of kenpo because I've only known kenpo as a Chinese or American martial art not Japanese


heh.. I apparently gave misleading information...

I joined Jishukan Ryu, which according to the syllabus "Jishukan Ryu is a traditional style of martial arts which combines Jiu-jitsu, Aiki-Jujutsu, Kenpo, Karate, Jojutsu, traditional Japanese medicine, and other rarely encountered training methods."

And at the moment we focus mostly on the Kenpo and some ju-jitsu, which probably got me confused. But all the vocabulary we use is Japanese.


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## Headhunter (Apr 9, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> heh.. I apparently gave misleading information...
> 
> I joined Jishukan Ryu, which according to the syllabus "Jishukan Ryu is a traditional style of martial arts which combines Jiu-jitsu, Aiki-Jujutsu, Kenpo, Karate, Jojutsu, traditional Japanese medicine, and other rarely encountered training methods."
> 
> And at the moment we focus mostly on the Kenpo and some ju-jitsu, which probably got me confused. But all the vocabulary we use is Japanese.


Hey I'm no expert either I could be wrong that's why I'm asking. Again though which type of kenpo there's a large of different kenpo styles. There's Chinese kenpo, American kenpo, Hawaiian kenpo, Tracey kenpo and there's else kajukenbo which is an offshoot of kenpo from one of William Kwai Suns students who's the founder of Chinese kenpo


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## gucia6 (Apr 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Hey I'm no expert either I could be wrong that's why I'm asking. Again though which type of kenpo there's a large of different kenpo styles. There's Chinese kenpo, American kenpo, Hawaiian kenpo, Tracey kenpo and there's else kajukenbo which is an offshoot of kenpo from one of William Kwai Suns students who's the founder of Chinese kenpo


Hehe, to be honest, I have no idea... 

I will ask my instructor tonight, maybe he knows.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


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## Tames D (Apr 9, 2018)

Welcome


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## Headhunter (Apr 9, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> Hehe, to be honest, I have no idea...
> 
> I will ask my instructor tonight, maybe he knows.
> 
> Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


I would hope he does


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## JR 137 (Apr 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Hey I'm no expert either I could be wrong that's why I'm asking. Again though which type of kenpo there's a large of different kenpo styles. There's Chinese kenpo, American kenpo, Hawaiian kenpo, Tracey kenpo and there's else kajukenbo which is an offshoot of kenpo from one of William Kwai Suns students who's the founder of Chinese kenpo


Kenpo/Kempo is a generic term like karate is.  There are Japanese and Okinawa schools that refer to themselves as kenpo; I think there’s more Okinawan than Japanese, but I could be wrong.  After Funakoshi changed karate’s kanji from “China hand” to “empty hand” thereby keeping the pronounced name karate, I think many schools started using the name karate instead of kenpo.  That’s conjecture on my part though.

Ryu Kyu kenpo (Ryu Kyu being an old/alternative name for Okinawa) was a popular term that was generic.  Most notably used by Seiyu Oyata, he dropped it because it was generic and George Dillman was using it as his system’s name; he didn’t want to be associated with Dillman.

Here’s a brief definition article
History of Kenpo


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Hey I'm no expert either I could be wrong that's why I'm asking. Again though which type of kenpo there's a large of different kenpo styles. There's Chinese kenpo, American kenpo, Hawaiian kenpo, Tracey kenpo and there's else kajukenbo which is an offshoot of kenpo from one of William Kwai Suns students who's the founder of Chinese kenpo


JR beat me to my response of this; kenpo is just a generic term in japan, like karate. But the big Japanese kenpo that I'm aware of is Nippon ke_*m*_po.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 9, 2018)

Welcome to MT.  Look forward to your input.


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 9, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Kenpo/Kempo is a generic term like karate is.  There are Japanese and Okinawa schools that refer to themselves as kenpo; I think there’s more Okinawan than Japanese, but I could be wrong.  After Funakoshi changed karate’s kanji from “China hand” to “empty hand” thereby keeping the pronounced name karate, I think many schools started using the name karate instead of kenpo.  That’s conjecture on my part though.
> 
> Ryu Kyu kenpo (Ryu Kyu being an old/alternative name for Okinawa) was a popular term that was generic.  Most notably used by Seiyu Oyata, he dropped it because it was generic and George Dillman was using it as his system’s name; he didn’t want to be associated with Dillman.
> 
> ...


 
JR 137, I'm sure that was a brain hiccup (I recognize it so easily as I have them all the time), as I am sure you know Ryu Kyu is the name of the island chain stretching from below Japan to Taiwan, and is the usual name given to the chain and kingdom/government before Japanese assimilation/annexation.  Okinawa is the name of the largest island, near the middle of the island chain, and most known for the fierce fighting there during WWII.


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## Buka (Apr 9, 2018)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Gucia6.


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## gucia6 (Apr 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> JR beat me to my response of this; kenpo is just a generic term in japan, like karate. But the big Japanese kenpo that I'm aware of is Nippon ke_*m*_po.



to be honest it is very embarrassing that I do not know what exactly I am learning.

Kempodisciple, you've got a point. I did some little research on the available materials (there is not much unfortunately) and the Jishukan Ryu refers to ke*m*po (not kenpo). And its founder, Mr. Shuho Sugita received training from Master Saito in ju-jitsu, kempo, haya nava and jojitsu in Yokohama. Then he trained in Kodokan Takehashi Dojo, Shiroken Dojo and Kitoro Kodokan. And after he founded the school in Yokohama (in 1947), it was brought to Australia by Col. James Laughin in 1961. And to US by Dr. Ping, but I do not know when. There is not much info on that and my Japanese is not that good yet to chase it in Japanese sources.

I do not know if this answers your question Headhunter, but that is all I got after short and limited research. Maybe in the future I will pursue this subject a bit, as it seems quite intriguing.


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## JR 137 (Apr 9, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> JR 137, I'm sure that was a brain hiccup (I recognize it so easily as I have them all the time), as I am sure you know Ryu Kyu is the name of the island chain stretching from below Japan to Taiwan, and is the usual name given to the chain and kingdom/government before Japanese assimilation/annexation.  Okinawa is the name of the largest island, near the middle of the island chain, and most known for the fierce fighting there during WWII.


Yeah, I know.  I didn’t want to go all geography lesson here.  I tried to keep it simple.  Probably looked dumber that way though.


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## JR 137 (Apr 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> JR beat me to my response of this; kenpo is just a generic term in japan, like karate. But the big Japanese kenpo that I'm aware of is Nippon ke_*m*_po.


Aren’t kenpo and kempo used interchangeably and more of a pronunciation thing, kind of like senpai and sempai?

Side note - senpai and sempai are the same thing as are kenpo and kempo (perhaps), honbu and hombu; how come there’s sensei but not semsei?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 9, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Aren’t kenpo and kempo used interchangeably and more of a pronunciation thing, kind of like senpai and sempai?
> 
> Side note - senpai and sempai are the same thing as are kenpo and kempo (perhaps), honbu and hombu; how come there’s sensei but not semsei?


Sort of. When the different styles got 'translated' to English, it was fifty/fifty whether kenpo or kempo would be chosen, from how I understand it, but once one was chosen it stuck. And would continue down that way through a lineage. Because of that it can become an important way to distinguish when talking about different styles.

Pretty sure that's how the change between kenpo/kempo worked, it's been a while since I've had reason to think about it. Anyone with a different understanding, feel free to correct me.


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## Headhunter (Apr 10, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sort of. When the different styles got 'translated' to English, it was fifty/fifty whether kenpo or kempo would be chosen, from how I understand it, but once one was chosen it stuck. And would continue down that way through a lineage. Because of that it can become an important way to distinguish when talking about different styles.
> 
> Pretty sure that's how the change between kenpo/kempo worked, it's been a while since I've had reason to think about it. Anyone with a different understanding, feel free to correct me.


As lee wedlake once said "no wonder other styles make fun of us (kenpo guys) we can't even decide how to spell our styles name"


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## Flying Crane (Apr 10, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Sort of. When the different styles got 'translated' to English, it was fifty/fifty whether kenpo or kempo would be chosen, from how I understand it, but once one was chosen it stuck. And would continue down that way through a lineage. Because of that it can become an important way to distinguish when talking about different styles.
> 
> Pretty sure that's how the change between kenpo/kempo worked, it's been a while since I've had reason to think about it. Anyone with a different understanding, feel free to correct me.


I believe it has to do with the written translation from the kanji into the Roman alphabet.  I recall hearing that due to some translation issue it is supposed to be spelled with an m, but is pronounced with an n, which causes people to want to spell it with an n.

Honestly, I think it does not matter.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 10, 2018)

Welcome to MartialTalk!


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## gucia6 (Apr 10, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I believe it has to do with the written translation from the kanji into the Roman alphabet.  I recall hearing that due to some translation issue it is supposed to be spelled with an m, but is pronounced with an n, which causes people to want to spell it with an n.
> 
> Honestly, I think it does not matter.


I think it is actually the other way around, as there is no single standing 'm' in japanese alphabet, but there is an 'n'.
And anyway the pronounciation in Japanese I find quite complicated, as the same signs can be spelled and pronounced in different ways depending on context. Not to mention it can differ depending on the region.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 10, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> I think it is actually the other way around, as there is no single standing 'm' in japanese alphabet, but there is an 'n'.
> And anyway the pronounciation in Japanese I find quite complicated, as the same signs can be spelled and pronounced in different ways depending on context. Not to mention it can differ depending on the region.


After I made that post, it also occurred to me that I might have that turned around.

At any rate, I believe it is a translation issue that causes the spelling variation.


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## donald1 (Apr 11, 2018)

Hello!


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## Chris Parker (Apr 11, 2018)

Hi gucia6, welcome aboard!

Jishukan is an interesting system and history... I hope you enjoy it!


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## oftheherd1 (Apr 18, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> After search for some nice MA forum I decided to join here.
> 
> ...



Welcome to MT.  Look forward to your input.


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## wingchun100 (Apr 20, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> After search for some nice MA forum I decided to join here.
> 
> ...



Glad to have you here!


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## Anarax (Apr 20, 2018)

Welcome


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