# The x in Kenpo



## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

I am refining my personal black belt form.  It is based on the x in self defense (Kenpo specifically) with attacks coming from points on the 10-4 by 8-2 lines.   I'm starting with basic x-blocks and moving on to the most advanced applications taken from Kenpo techniques.  I am incorporating any movement in which the arms cross for self defense such as windmill blocks, parries and orbits.  I'm wondering if anyone has any information, thoughts or ideas, or knows of any articles on this subject - applications, anything on the universal pattern dealing with the cross or the x, anything.Thanks


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## Touch Of Death (May 20, 2004)

We use the term open ended triangle, and don't forget your front and rear cross overs and double factors.
Sean


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## mhouse (May 20, 2004)

Before black belt, I had a technique called 24 Combination. It was Right over Left, cross block down, from the block, double cross knife to the neck. (your hands remain connected at the wrist the whole time.) After striking to the neck, you pulled your right hand to the right and your left hand to the left doing tiger claws across the face. There is more but that is the important part.

I would suggest of thinking about differnet thing that can happen from an x-block / strike.  For example...an open handed x-stike to the neck, grab the gi/shirt with your arms in an x-block. Pull with the right, push with the left. 

 As for references, there is a section in the beginning of Professor Cerio's Circle of the Tiger that attacks to a corner that might be informative. It's a black belt form in our style, but it might be in one of his books. 

 I don't know much about Parker's Kenpo, but there are so many books out there that some of them must cover the diagonals of the kenpo wheel.

 Good luck. When you are done, would you mind sharing your form with us?


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> We use the term open ended triangle, and don't forget your front and rear cross overs and double factors.
> Sean


Sean thank you!  I've never even heard that term before open ended triangle...I like it...is that term used for any reason other than the obvious...do you use it to replace the term x-block?

as for the front and rear crossovers I had my private lesson today and was discussing with my instructor what he thought the most powerful kick was...and he said the cross over back kick (not meant to cause a stir here though)...which got me thinking about my form...so yes I'm going to try and think about ways to add cross overs when fitting.  

What do do mean by double factors?  Are you familiar with the move Back Breaker?  Do you mean like using double backfists in an open ended triangle   in a move like that striking across the face and clavicles (as you remove your supporting leg) backfists down for the takedown.  

Can you please give me an example of what you mean by this?


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## Blindside (May 20, 2004)

Think about the angle of the attack toward you, not only on the horizontal plane, but also on the vertical.  Many weapon attacks come in at downward 45 degree angles, a shovel hook might come in at an upward 45 degree angle, etc.

Also, a universal block would be a good example of an "x-block" on the horizontal plane.

A double-factor would be a double block such as an right inward, left outward block.  Think of the advanced applications of that motion, rather than just as blocks/parries.

Good luck, sounds like an interesting mental (and physical!)exercise.

Lamont


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

mhouse said:
			
		

> Before black belt, I had a technique called 24 Combination. It was Right over Left, cross block down, from the block, double cross knife to the neck. (your hands remain connected at the wrist the whole time.) After striking to the neck, you pulled your right hand to the right and your left hand to the left doing tiger claws across the face. There is more but that is the important part.
> 
> I would suggest of thinking about differnet thing that can happen from an x-block / strike. For example...an open handed x-stike to the neck, grab the gi/shirt with your arms in an x-block. Pull with the right, push with the left.
> 
> ...


First I really appreciate you reply!

In the move 24 Combination what is the attack?  I have a similar Kenpo move where you push pull rip back on the face arm crossed of course but only one does the ripping.  I'll see if two work in anywhere...cool!

Professor Cerio's Circle of Tiger - first what art is it from? (not that it matters I think you learn from being open to all possibilities) and is that a book?

As for sharing the form it's been the hardest thing I've had to do for this bloody test and I've picked it up and put it down a dozen times and all the old stuff I created looks so immature I ripped it apart and I'm reworking it...hopefully I'd want to share it.  I'm proud of my thesis, but so far this is making me nutz!!!  Let's see   how it turns out first.  If it's at least good I'd be more than happy to share...Ok?  The other thing is, we're not required to write it out...I'd have to do that for you probably after the test is over.

So my advice to all of you who need a personal form...get going before it gets you:jaws: !!!


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## Touch Of Death (May 20, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> Sean thank you!  I've never even heard that term before open ended triangle...I like it...is that term used for any reason other than the obvious...do you use it to replace the term x-block?
> 
> as for the front and rear crossovers I had my private lesson today and was discussing with my instructor what he thought the most powerful kick was...and he said the cross over back kick (not meant to cause a stir here though)...which got me thinking about my form...so yes I'm going to try and think about ways to add cross overs when fitting.
> 
> ...


Double factor can make even short form one into an x-block extravaganza, and for the most part we call that block a universal block. And double factor is more four dimensional.
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Blindside said:
			
		

> Think about the angle of the attack toward you, not only on the horizontal plane, but also on the vertical. Many weapon attacks come in at downward 45 degree angles, a shovel hook might come in at an upward 45 degree angle, etc.
> 
> Also, a universal block would be a good example of an "x-block" on the horizontal plane.
> 
> ...


Lamont thanks!  

I had a friend suggest the universal block but I wasn't able to see it as an X-block until now.  I hadn't been thinking of it as being an x on a horizontal plane.  That's helpful.  I have a few techniques with universal blocks.  I'll think about those.  

The double factor is an interesting thought...but I'm not sure - is a universal block an example of this or is it different?  What applications would there be for a right inward paired with a left outward block...does this limit your striking ability and leave you open? I feel like your arms might get tied up in each other.  Can you give an example?


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Double factor can make even short form one into an x-block extravaganza, and for the most part we call that block a universal block. And double factor is more four dimensional.
> Sean


Ok I really can't relate to the fourth dimension...it's just hard to see for me.  But this I can see - sometimes we overlook the simple basic stuff like SHORT I ....I'm thinking of it right now...especially the turns toward 9:00 and the slicing down blocks you are so right now I'm inspired...those basic moves could be a great way to transition for me...there are a couple of places in the form where I need to be in a different place on the clock to do what I have planned...Thanks for this thought!!!!


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (May 20, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> I am refining my personal black belt form. It is based on the x in self defense (Kenpo specifically) with attacks coming from points on the 10-4 by 8-2 lines. I'm starting with basic x-blocks and moving on to the most advanced applications taken from Kenpo techniques. I am incorporating any movement in which the arms cross for self defense such as windmill blocks, parries and orbits. I'm wondering if anyone has any information, thoughts or ideas, or knows of any articles on this subject - applications, anything on the universal pattern dealing with the cross or the x, anything.Thanks


Long Form 4 is based on this premise already.

DarK LorD


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
			
		

> Long Form 4 is based on this premise already.
> 
> DarK LorD


I see a lot in the beginning of Long Form IV especially in Destructive Kneel, I didn't use that technique for the reason that it looked too much like long 4, but I didn't know all of Long 4 was based on that.  I have a personal reason for choosing this theme.  I guess eventually nothing is completely original.  I'll go over Long Form IV and look for other things I might be able to apply.  I am using mostly pieces of techniques, so some of it I might find very useful.   Thanks so much for pointing that out!  I'll definitely give it more thought!:ultracool


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## Touch Of Death (May 20, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> Ok I really can't relate to the fourth dimension...it's just hard to see for me.  But this I can see - sometimes we overlook the simple basic stuff like SHORT I ....I'm thinking of it right now...especially the turns toward 9:00 and the slicing down blocks you are so right now I'm inspired...those basic moves could be a great way to transition for me...there are a couple of places in the form where I need to be in a different place on the clock to do what I have planned...Thanks for this thought!!!!


what I mean by four dimensional is that with a double factor one block precceeds the other as a check and a guide line for the next move and do not create an solid x block. Think writing in cursive as opposed to printing.
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> what I mean by four dimensional is that with a double factor one block precceeds the other as a check and a guide line for the next move and do not create an solid x block. Think writing in cursive as opposed to printing.
> Sean


 
Great Sean!....that's the visualization I needed.  That is the Kenpo I know - coming in with positional checks.  So just to clarify, if I'm getting it all  - you'd consider this type of movement to be an x-block of a different color or on a different plane, or level?


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## Doc (May 20, 2004)

Just as a thought, there are no "X" or crossblocks in American kenpo as I know it. Usually when these type "so-called" blocks are employed, they consists of two separate mechanisms employed separately with wholly different functions that ultimately end up in what is generally known as an "X" configuration but in reality are not. They "X" designation is a superficial understanding of a rather complex mechanism.


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## Les (May 20, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> It is based on the x in self defense (Kenpo specifically) with attacks coming from points on the 10-4 by 8-2 lines.




I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the x angles are actually 10.30, 4.30, 7.30 and 1.30. The 10-4 by 8-2 lines will not give you true diagonals.

Les


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Just as a thought, there are no "X" or crossblocks in American kenpo as I know it. Usually when these type "so-called" blocks are employed, they consists of two separate mechanisms employed separately with wholly different functions that ultimately end up in what is generally known as an "X" configuration but in reality are not. They "X" designation is a superficial understanding of a rather complex mechanism.


Most interesting...it may be a matter of semantics, but it doesn't sound that way.  Can you describe an example of it being much more complex? I'd really like to understand more about your thoughts on this.  

I can think of at least four techniques off the top of my head where you begin by blocking a kick or a club, or a knife attack in this "configuration".  What happens directly after the initial block may vary (trap and pull in, regrabbing the club, redirecting the knife, and choking the throat in a push pull, but the very first step really does not seem so complex.

If you care to please elaborate.  Thank you.


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Les said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the x angles are actually 10.30, 4.30, 7.30 and 1.30. The 10-4 by 8-2 lines will not give you true diagonals.
> 
> Les


  That's good advice I'll shift my orientation just a bit.  ...and now I'll go look up the word pedantic   but i get your drift.  Thanks!


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## mj-hi-yah (May 20, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Just as a thought, there are no "X" or crossblocks in American kenpo as I know it. Usually when these type "so-called" blocks are employed, they consists of two separate mechanisms employed separately with wholly different functions that ultimately end up in what is generally known as an "X" configuration but in reality are not. They "X" designation is a superficial understanding of a rather complex mechanism.


Doc,

 I just found something that might make this a little clearer.  You seem to know Kenpo very well.  I'll assume you've read Infinit Insights...if you have not I'll copy the page for you.  In volume five, Ed Parker describes the technique Obstructing the Storm (over head club attack page 164)  He refers to the initial block at the opponents wrist as an "upward cross block" - what my instructor refers to as an x-block.   

Please I'd like to know what you think Ed Parker intended here.


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## Doc (May 20, 2004)

Les said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the x angles are actually 10.30, 4.30, 7.30 and 1.30. The 10-4 by 8-2 lines will not give you true diagonals.
> 
> Les



Call it what you will, you are indeed correct.


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## mhouse (May 21, 2004)

Sorry it's taken so long to reply to your earlier question.

The kempo style I study is derived from Karenzempo, Cerio's Kenpo among other sources. So, Circle of the Tiger is a form from Nick Cerio's Kenpo.

As for 24 combination, the attack is usually practiced as a punch. The first block smothers the punch and as a result makes the attacker lean forward, usually exposing their neck as they look up.

There are some other interesting points about the x-block in the style I study. It's used in all of our "kata" forms during the salutaion. (I have forms named 1 kata, 2 kata, etc.) My Sensei was giving us some background on the opening x-block. It's derived from a block where you would have both fists closed, and place the right directly on top of the left. (So that the palm of your right hand is facing the back of your left hand) You would then thrust this "double fist" (for lack of a better term) up and out. It's meant to be a defense against a hammer fist. The block will either hit the arm just above or just below the elbow.  According the my instuctor, its from the polynesian background of the kempo arts as opposed to the chinese influences.

 Now, I mention this to give you some ideas about the x-block and possible variations.  I haven't worked with it enough to explore the possibilities or its effectiveness for me and my classmates.


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## mj-hi-yah (May 21, 2004)

> "double fist" (for lack of a better term) up and out. It's meant to be a defense against a hammer fist. The block will either hit the arm just above or just below the elbow. According the my instuctor, its from the polynesian background of the kempo arts as opposed to the chinese influences.


Hi,

Thanks for your answer - this is what I call helpful!  Please don't worry about response time...I appreciate your effort.  I can see what you are saying, have applied this type of block against a club attack at the wrist though, (and have had it applied to me) and I can tell it works.  

"Double fist" is a fine term... call it what you will, you are indeed correct!  

Please tell your instructor thanks for the explanation as well.   

See ya later,
MJ


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## mj-hi-yah (May 22, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> We use the term open ended triangle,Sean


Sean thanks for the term.  I found this interesting link that gives a very clear explanation of the open ended triangle and in the second paragraph there is a reference to the cross block in Obstructing the Storm as an OET (open ended triangle). 

http://www.stormkenpo.com/openend_traingles.htm


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 8, 2004)

Hey there,

This form is really starting to shape up nicely and is finally flowing.  I got some great ideas for the beginning of the form (where I was trying to demonstrate basics) today from of all places watching Sophisticated Basics.  Has everyone seen it?  It's great!  I'm not sure how I got along without it.  I only I wish I'd seen it sooner.  Les, I saw the x in the video 10:30/ 4:30 by 7:30/1:30 it was helpful to actually see it illustrated, and I also got some inspiration for the applications of the more complicated mechanisims of the x block, double fist or open ended triangle (I'm still not exactly sure what the proper terminology should be)  I think when I give the explanation for the form I may just use them all  .  At any rate, now I think all I need is for someone to please tell me to stop messing with it! :armed:  

Thanks for all of your input! :asian: 

It is much appreciated!

MJ


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

I have a question about something in Universal Set I.  In this set we begin by stepping our right leg out toward 3:00 as we cross our arms over our head (palms facing out and crossed just below the wrists) forming four open ended triangles.  It was explained to me that these four triangles represent knowledge coming from all four directions north, south, east and west.  Can anyone confirm this meaning or elaborate on it?  Thanks!:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> I have a question about something in Universal Set I.  In this set we begin by stepping our right leg out toward 3:00 as we cross our arms over our head (palms facing out and crossed just below the wrists) forming four open ended triangles.  It was explained to me that these four triangles represent knowledge coming from all four directions north, south, east and west.  Can anyone confirm this meaning or elaborate on it?  Thanks!:asian:


Universal wha?... huh? I think that would be a question for another blackbelt in your particular branch of Kenpo I'm afraid... Or wait a second "Doc" would know the answer to this question, I'll wager. :asian:
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Universal wha?... huh? I think that would be a question for another blackbelt in your particular branch of Kenpo I'm afraid... Or wait a second "Doc" would know the answer to this question, I'll wager. :asian:


:uhyeah:  LOL  you're not familiar with this set?  Well... it's a great exercise in control.  Thanks anyway Sean!  No thanks on the wager, maybe just a pinkie bet, learning not to wager on anything Doc have might say, especially the Lakers did you happen to catch their last game?  :wink2:


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

Alas no; however, When doing an ex block I would make sure one of your arms is a solid basic and the other a support if not also a solid basic. what do you think?
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Alas no; however, When doing an ex block I would make sure one of your arms is a solid basic and the other a support if not also a solid basic. what do you think?





			
				Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Sean


 In the case of the upward cross block as in Obstructing the Storm...I consider both arms to be engaging in an active block they work together to form a trap (open ended triangle to trap the wrist) but then must transition into the next movement independently of each other (the right hand grabs their wrist as the left forearm simultaneously strikes their left elbow as you are stepping to 1:00 with the left leg into a neutral bow. 

Also I know there are all sorts of variations on Star Block.  In the version I was taught when the two hands work together in Star Block they cross forming an up block in an x above your head and for a pushdown block they are crossed at the wrists as well.  In both cases I consider both arms (hands for the pushdowns) to be in a solid basic.:idunno:  It's just how I think of it... :asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> In the case of the upward cross block as in Obstructing the Storm...I consider both arms to be engaging in an active block they work together to form a trap (open ended triangle to trap the wrist) but then must transition into the next movement independently of each other (the right hand grabs their wrist as the left forearm simultaneously strikes their left elbow as you are stepping to 1:00 with the left leg into a neutral bow.
> 
> Also I know there are all sorts of variations on Star Block.  In the version I was taught when the two hands work together in Star Block they cross forming an up block in an x above your head and for a pushdown block they are crossed at the wrists as well.  In both cases I consider both arms (hands for the pushdowns) to be in a solid basic.:idunno:  It's just how I think of it... :asian:


Actualy I would have the right upward block preceeding the left upward to deal with the possible faliure of on or the other to insure the club direction to the right. The alternative is to your head; therefor, the right should be dominant in this case. :asian: 
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Actualy I would have the right upward block preceeding the left upward to deal with the possible faliure of on or the other to insure the club direction to the right. The alternative is to your head; therefor, the right should be dominant in this case. :asian:
> Sean


 I'll play with it...see if I can prove your theory (hopefully I don't take a head shot in trying  )...sounds reasonable though as the right is responsible for grabbing and controlling the wrist. Also I suppose, as you say if the right block fails than your opponent could contour down your left arm with the strike...I can live with that.:asian:


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Actualy I would have the right upward block preceeding the left upward to ... :asian:
> Sean



I have no knowledge of the term "Universal" Set. (But then there is a bunch of stuff in other interpretations I don't know). As far as the description of "4 open ended triangles," I only visualize 3, (but I'm running this Kobe Bryant clip in my head right now).

With regard to the execution of the so-called "X" or "wedge" block, in my kenpo understanding, it is not so much a "double" block as it is a primary block and a secondary trapping mechanisms. The two hands are not executed simultaneously but are Mora Beat timed.

The "Star Block" is actually a basic blocking exercise set lifted by Parker directly from Grandmaster Ark Wong teachings of Five Animal/Splashing Hands. The name was changed to "Star Block" when it was drawn and the 5 basics blocks were stacked on top of each other and gave the appearance of the points of a 5 point star. The actual set is missing indexes, alignments, and additional "blocks" the way I was taught.


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> I have no knowledge of the term "Universal" Set. (But then there is a bunch of stuff in other interpretations I don't know). As far as the description of "4 open ended triangles," I only visualize 3, (but I'm running this Kobe Bryant clip in my head right now).


Universal Set is an interesting set that we learn requiring balance and coordination and patience.  We learn it sometime before blue belt level, but I really have no idea of the origin.  I was figuring that the description of the four triangles (at each opening of the "X") are more symbolic than functional.  
BTW oh it's KOBE lol...and what a shot!! :xtrmshock  
Sean...told you I wouldn't like that bet...I'll take my pinkie back now please 


> With regard to the execution of the so-called "X" or "wedge" block, in my kenpo understanding, it is not so much a "double" block as it is a primary block and a secondary trapping mechanisms. The two hands are not executed simultaneously but are Mora Beat timed.


  Ok so I'll think block/trap from now on...thank you  ... 


> The "Star Block" is actually a basic blocking exercise set lifted by Parker directly from Grandmaster Ark Wong teachings of Five Animal/Splashing Hands. The name was changed to "Star Block" when it was drawn and the 5 basics blocks were stacked on top of each other and gave the appearance of the points of a 5 point star.


 :ultracool 


> The actual set is missing indexes, alignments, and additional "blocks" the way I was taught.


  Are you saying that the original way you were taught is missing things you'd like to see in it today?  



Respectfully,
MJ :asian:


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> ... Are you saying that the original way you were taught is missing things you'd like to see in it today?
> 
> Respectfully,
> MJ :asian:



Well actually no. All those things are in it when I teach. What others have, don't have, want, don't want is up to them. My understanding includes much more than the 5 simple blocks taught in the commercial version. That version actually contains some very good imformation, if you have a teacher to decipher it, but I've never seen anyone who understood the angles, alignments, or indexes required to get them there. When done correctly a simple block should becomes immovable against its line of reisstence while protecting its assigned "zone of protection." Most are still thrusting an inward block like a punch. Nothing could be more incorrect.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> Sean...told you I wouldn't like that bet...I'll take my pinkie back now please
> Ok so I'll think block/trap from now on...thank you  ...
> :ultracool
> 
> ...


when you do your form, try to do the right upward like a foward bow and shift to a horse stance when you bring up the left. It will look most cool. You would have won the bet so you should have taken it. :asian: 
Sean


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> when you do your form, try to do the right upward like a foward bow and shift to a horse stance when you bring up the left. It will look most cool. You would have won the bet so you should have taken it. :asian:
> Sean



Not exactly sure anout any form, but my understanding is both are done from a neutral bow with the rear executing first. - Especially in techniques like "Obstructing The Storm."


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Not exactly sure anout any form, but my understanding is both are done from a neutral bow with the rear executing first. - Especially in techniques like "Obstructing The Storm."


I was in short III mode just now, but I'm sure you are correct. I was trying be cosmetic. :asian: 
Sean


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 10, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Not exactly sure anout any form, but my understanding is both are done from a neutral bow with the rear executing first. - Especially in techniques like "Obstructing The Storm."


Wait a sec, now I'm not so sure you are right. (as I do it in the air) whats wrong with backing up your dominant block with a forward bow? That would be like reverse punching without a foward bow; however I would shift into a neutral for proper angles once my left came into play.
Sean


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Doc said:
			
		

> Well actually no. All those things are in it when I teach. What others have, don't have, want, don't want is up to them.


 :supcool: 


> My understanding includes much more than the 5 simple blocks taught in the commercial version. That version actually contains some very good imformation, if you have a teacher to decipher it, but I've never seen anyone who understood the angles, alignments, or indexes required to get them there. When done correctly a simple block should becomes immovable against its line of reisstence while protecting its assigned "zone of protection." Most are still thrusting an inward block like a punch. Nothing could be more incorrect.


  Sounds like the Rock Dude from the Fantastic Five...remember them?  So this, the idea of an immovable block, is most interesting.  :idea:  Can we tackle that another day?  

Respectfully,
MJ :asian:


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## mj-hi-yah (Jun 10, 2004)

Touch'O'Death said:
			
		

> Wait a sec, now I'm not so sure you are right. (as I do it in the air) whats wrong with backing up your dominant block with a forward bow? That would be like reverse punching without a foward bow; however I would shift into a neutral for proper angles once my left came into play.
> Sean


  Okay I need a ruling here...:hammer:


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## mhouse (Jul 22, 2004)

MJ,

I was thinking back on this thread. Now that you have your black belt, how about sharing your form with us? I'd be really interested to see/read it. Especially since the forms I have in Shaolin Kenpo have few forms based on the X in kenpo. Although, I may have some questions about the terminology used in American Kenpo.

Thanks!


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## mj-hi-yah (Jul 22, 2004)

mhouse said:
			
		

> MJ,
> 
> I was thinking back on this thread. Now that you have your black belt, how about sharing your form with us? I'd be really interested to see/read it. Especially since the forms I have in Shaolin Kenpo have few forms based on the X in kenpo. Although, I may have some questions about the terminology used in American Kenpo.
> 
> Thanks!


Mhouse,

How about this?  If you PM me with your e-mail address, and I can figure out how to make the file small enough for sending (just need time to play with it), I'll e-mail you a copy of the video.  

MJ


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