# Raw v.s. Cooked Protein ?



## StrongFighter (Mar 9, 2009)

What are the positives and negatives of raw v.s. cooked protein for martial artists ? ( chicken, fish, steak, cooked or raw nuts etc. )

Are there studies backed up by reputable sources, if so links please ? Thank you.


----------



## Omar B (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't know about risks and such but I prefer my steak and fish as raw as I can get it.  My salmon is usually raw or lightly cooked on the outside.


----------



## BlackCatBonz (Mar 9, 2009)

Cooking denatures the protein strands to facilitate digestion.
It also "cooks" some of the nutrients......not to the point they are completely lost.
The acid in your stomach also denatures protein so it can be further digested.
Enzymes connect with the protein unfurling them into component amino acids, dipeptides, tripeptides and polypeptides.

Is raw food best?
In my opinion yes.......when you make your digestive system work it gets exercise.

Does it build or repair muscle faster......just my opinion, but I would say no.

Your body needs protein.....it gets it from the break down of protein into amino acids which are absorbed by intestinal cells and transferred to the blood stream.

The quickest way to build and repair muscle is to eat a nutrient dense diet with adequate quantities of lean meat and fish.


----------



## Omar B (Mar 9, 2009)

I really could not tell if cooked or uncooked is absorbed by the body faster, more efficiently.  Or for that matter if cooking destroys the protein in any way ... though we have all had meat cooked to all heck and it's never pleasant.

This is a question I would ask a doctor and if you find an answer get back to me so I can completly quit cooking my steak.

Ever try Steak Tartar?  It's uncooked ground been with raw egg and seasonings mixed.  Good stuff.


----------



## terryl965 (Mar 9, 2009)

Cook it but do not over kill it. I prefer cook, I am a wush about raw products.


----------



## BlackCatBonz (Mar 9, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I really could not tell if cooked or uncooked is absorbed by the body faster, more efficiently. Or for that matter if cooking destroys the protein in any way ... though we have all had meat cooked to all heck and it's never pleasant.
> 
> This is a question I would ask a doctor and if you find an answer get back to me so I can completly quit cooking my steak.
> 
> Ever try Steak Tartar? It's uncooked ground been with raw egg and seasonings mixed. Good stuff.


 
Like i said in my previous post, cooking just starts the protein denaturing process that is continued in the stomach and intestines.

If it's illness you're worried about, the problem most people have is cross contamination during food preparation and not storing food at it's optimal temperature.

If you want to eat your steak raw, buy it from a reputable source and store it at temperatures (40oF) that slow the growth of bacteria. 

There is a risk involved eating anything raw........some would say that the benefits do not outweigh the risks.


----------



## tellner (Mar 9, 2009)

In times past parasite and bacteria loads were much less than they are under modern conditions. If you eat raw meat, eggs, milk or fish you're running measurable risks for anything from listeria or salmonella to tularaemia and eye worms depending. (Don't google that last one. Take my word for it. Just don't.). Steak tartare and its cousins date from a long time ago. There's an old Spanish saying in reference to a traditional raw pork dish "Since refrigeration, neither pork nor [pudenda] taste the same." Point is, they're much less common now that we have a better understanding of the issues and ever-increasing bacteria counts. 

You will lose some protein to heat denaturing if you cook your food. But protein deficiency is not common in the developed world among people who eat a reasonably balanced diet. The USDA guidelines for cooking times are very well-researched and will keep you safe from bacteria, worms and pretty much every creepy crawly except prions.

If you want raw, go with a healthy, organically raised animal. Keep the temperature low from slaughter or harvesting to the table. Religiously avoid cross-contamination and so on. You will minimise the risks.


----------



## Carol (Mar 10, 2009)

I'll take sushi or a blue steak any day of the week.  

As far as risks for beef, there are a few.  There is a risk bacteria or parasites in the beef itself.  There are also other risks that can be minimized.  Not knowing enough about the quality of meat to recognize a good quality cut can put a person at risk, because they don't truly understand what they are eating, or because they try to economize in some way.  The processing equipment that chops up ground beef or the cheaper cuts can also contaminate the beef.  Buying beef from a vendor that doesn't have strict hygiene practices can open up the risk of cross-contamination from other sources, which can spread other foodborne bacteria or diseases such as Hepatitis A.  Maintaining healthy dietary habits, including eating good amounts of fresh vegetables. A glass of carrot juice a day...

As far as the advantages...the science appears to be there.  

There are scientific studies that indicate that raw beef has an advantage in building muscle over cooked beef.  Perhaps one of the biggest differences is that that raw beef is a significant source of natural creatine, but the cooking process breaks the molecule down in to creatinine, which by itself does not have a particular metabolic benefit.


----------



## BlackCatBonz (Mar 10, 2009)

There is lots of science out there that says all kinds of conflicting things.

Long story short......amino acids make good building blocks, not a good source of energy.
Experiements done on lab rats are usually done with levels (comparitively speaking) that far exceed what humans consume.

Muscle building really requires one thing, that you consume food that provides complete protein (one which supplies essential amino acids) or 2 foods that will mutually supplement the other by providing the missing amino acids.

The problem with 'scientific studies' is that we tend to make knee-jerk reactions based on new ones without seeing the results tested over and over to reach a consensus on the results.

The best plan of action regarding your diet is to seek the advice of a registered dietitian. They are educated and 'Licenced' health experts.


----------



## StrongFighter (Mar 10, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I'll take sushi or a blue steak any day of the week.
> 
> As far as risks for beef, there are a few. There is a risk bacteria or parasites in the beef itself. There are also other risks that can be minimized. Not knowing enough about the quality of meat to recognize a good quality cut can put a person at risk, because they don't truly understand what they are eating, or because they try to economize in some way. The processing equipment that chops up ground beef or the cheaper cuts can also contaminate the beef. Buying beef from a vendor that doesn't have strict hygiene practices can open up the risk of cross-contamination from other sources, which can spread other foodborne bacteria or diseases such as Hepatitis A. Maintaining healthy dietary habits, including eating good amounts of fresh vegetables. A glass of carrot juice a day...
> 
> ...


 
Thank you Carol, that is what I was looking for.


----------



## MJS (Mar 10, 2009)

Admin Note

Thread locked pending review.


----------



## MJS (Mar 10, 2009)

Admin Note:

This thread is being reopened.  The off topic posts have been removed.  Lets return to the discussion at hand.  

Mike Slosek
MT Asst. Admin


----------



## Dao (Mar 10, 2009)

There's certain flesh proteins you can not eat raw.  Pork and chicken is the ones I know.  You can eat fish and beef raw and some seafood.  If you want to eat raw beef make sure it's organic beef.  Cooking foods will kill the enzymes, enzymes helps you digest the foods this is why one of the reasons vegetables are healthy.  Once you cook vegetables there will be little or no enzymes.  Also cooking meats in high temperatures turns the fats into toxic cancer causing chemicals.  The only safe way is to cook meats in low temperature or boiling it.  





> Cooking is not an extension of the eating and digesting process. Foods do not get "cooked" in the body. Foods get broken down, digested and assimilated in the body. Enzymes assist and are essential in all these processes. Enzymes, by their very nature, are ALIVE. Cooking food kills its enzymes and diminishes and alters nutrients, hormones, phytochemicals and other vital factors.  When you eat raw foods, all these vital factors are not killed or diminished, so the premise that cooking is just an extension of the eating and digesting process is ridiculous. Cooked food does not contain the vital enzymes that are essential for digestion of the food. Because the body has to produce the enzymes that are missing, it then works HARDER to digest the food.  When eaten, raw food is altered - yes - but it is altered through the natural processes inherent in the wisdom of the living body. Our bodies know what to do with raw food. But it is not natural for bodies to have to deal with cooked food. That's why the process of leukocytosis* (which is measurable by blood tests) occurs after ingesting cooked foods. Leukocytosis does not occur when eating the same foods raw. That's also why the pancreas of a cooked food eater is enlarged (indicating an overworked condition).


 http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_gagne.html


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 10, 2009)

OK. So. I'm a Chiropractor, and used to run an Alt health clinic in So Cal. I pretty much just did myofascial work and cracking, but worked with a mad scientist of a Naturopath as part of the staff. He was plugged in with the Hollywood crowd, so some of the people coming in looked awfully familiar (HIPAA....you would know them, but I can't say). 

Trend: When Hollywood "insiders" stumble on something that works for them, Hollywood "wannabes" follow in droves. I swear they just hope to bump into a director in the waiting room, but what do I know (and yes, they really do carry head shots with them everywhere they go). Anyway..."cave-man diet" became a big thing. Raw organ meats version of the Atkin's deal.

I had several patients I was co-treating with Nature-Boy, and would see them for several weeks on, then month or 2 off, in cycles as part of a planned experiemental health regimen we were working on. All my new patient exams get a futurex body comp analysis as part of their intake process. Tells me how much of you is water, fat, lean muscle mass, etc. I staple them to the charts for future reference.

One guy comes in...kinda fit, but kinda pudgy, like a construction worker who likes his beer. We get lean mass and bodyfat on him. I don't see him for 8 weeks, and he comes in looking like he's been on serious performance enhancing drugs, and in the gym 6 hours a freaking day. I quiz him with the, "No, really, you can tell me...what are you on?" Nothing. Just the raw organ meats caveman thing. I'm thinking, "We'll see." 

Steroids cause you to retain extra water...serious bloat. And for him to be this big, he's gotta be carrying water. So I run another futurex on him, thinking I got a body comp lie detector reading coming to hold him to. He's clean. I grill him at this point for the secret. "Raw organ meats, raw vegetables, raw fruits, organized around a food combining schedule". How often are you in the gym? "I don't do any physical training...my schedule doesn't allow it."

I still think he's full of it, until we get a clinic patient entering end-stage syndrome for AIDS. Nature-boy puts him on this stuff. The darned patient would eat it in the treatment rooms or waiting rooms while we made rounds, stinking the whole place up like raw dog food. Over a 12 week period, he not only rebounds, he also starts looking like he's on gear, and training in a P90-X program. Nope: Instructed by nature boy not to tax his system while it regenerates damaged tissues through the schmutz he's taking and eating. 

Well, this pattern repeated itself enough times for me to know 2 things:
1.  I think that stuff is just way to nasty to be able to eat myself. They take something like a whole kidney, throw it in the blender with some raw organic veggies & garlic & medicinal spices, and blend it to a puree. Pack that crap in a tupperware, and that's lunch. Dinner? Well, let's puree the pancreas, or a lung, or whatever. Just gross.

2. If I start losing the battle with some nasty disease process, I'm going to have my sense of smell and gag reflex surgically removed, and jump right on this nasty diet.

I have read a lot of the "science" behind it, and while it makes intuitive, anectdotal sense, I think the real science is still thin...RCT's with large enough sample sizes, correlating risk factors for common diseases and incidences of undesirable sequellae, etc. However, I have seen the results. Clinical outcomes may rank as weak evidence, but it's still evidence. 

Hard part is, as Tellner pointed out, access to quality foods. The Naturopath had an arrangement with one of his patients, who was a rancher raising grass-fed beef in the hills nearby, then slaughtering under specific conditions. The meants were immediately air-chilled to near freezing, but not frozen, and delivered within hours to the consumers via private couriours. Not many folks will have access to these sorts of resources, and I sure as hell wouldn't trust raw organ meats from the downtown supermarket. Caveat emptor, or die, I suppose.

D.


----------

