# Chinese "stick fighting"?



## MaartenSFS (Apr 13, 2007)

Is there anywhere in China where I can learn how to fight with sticks (Or staff, to a lesser extent), with an emphasis on practicality (Chinese system). Certainly not Taolu (forms).

     If no, is there anywhere in China where I can learn Filipino Martial Arts?

     - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 13, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Is there anywhere in China where I can learn how to fight with sticks (Or staff, to a lesser extent), with an emphasis on practicality (Chinese system).


 
I have not heard of a Chinese Martial art that is specifically for stick fighting but many of the Chinese styles have long staff (sometime VERY long staff) and short staff forms. But it has been my experience that most sifus of these styles do not teach you a staff form first. 

Practicality? Define what you mean by practicality.

Xingyi staff form is practical by my definition but I doubt a Xingyi sifu will show it to you if you just show up and say I want to learn ONLY the staff form. 



MaartenSFS said:


> If no, is there anywhere in China where I can learn Filipino Martial Arts?
> 
> - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker


 
I imagine so, I came across an MMA and a Kendo school in Beijing so I imagine Filipino Martial Arts schools exist in China but I am clueless as to where they might be. 

Are you in China? 

If so where?


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## arnisador (Apr 13, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> is there anywhere in China where I can learn Filipino Martial Arts?



I don't know of a particular place; one would think the port cities in the south would be good places to look, but surely everything is available in Beijing.

Note that many Indochinese styles will give you a similar flavor, and the are definitely available in the south.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 13, 2007)

MaartenSFS

I just took a look at your profile and I see you train Sanda.

Sport or other?


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 13, 2007)

Yes, I live in China (Unfortunately in Chongqing). And I am definitely not studying sport. 

     I really don't want to go to Beijing to find it, though. The Kendo schools in China are utterly worthless. The instructors have no skill whatsoever. And I don't want to learn any forms. I want to learn how to fight against an armed opponent whilst being armed myself.

     - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker


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## jdinca (Apr 13, 2007)

Long staff and short staff forms are part of a number of different chinese systems but I don't know of any that specializes in it.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 13, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Yes, I live in China (Unfortunately in Chongqing). And I am definitely not studying sport.
> 
> I really don't want to go to Beijing to find it, though. The Kendo schools in China are utterly worthless. The instructors have no skill whatsoever. And I don't want to learn any forms. I want to learn how to fight against an armed opponent whilst being armed myself.
> 
> - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker


 
Ahh you study the good stuff then.

You are south in about the middle and I know little about what is there. You might find a Filipino Martial Arts school around Guangzhou, Hong Kong or on the Southern coast but that is not all that close to you either.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 13, 2007)

Many years ago Black Belt or one of the Kung Fu magizines ran a story on a system called "Dirty Stick".  Other than that one refrence I do not remember hearing of any system based upon a stick in China


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## TaiChiTJ (Apr 13, 2007)

Here is some information on Jarek's site that mentions stick fighting in China. Apparently the West part of China is where stick and staff fighting arts have accumulated. 

Maybe you will recognize the towns he is talking about or find a well known name for a teacher. 

Good luck!
http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/s...ick Methods from Western China series of VCDs:


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## TaiChiTJ (Apr 13, 2007)

Whoops the link I gave you above doesn't take you to the exact location I wanted you to see. Here is Jarek's info, search for it if you are interested. 

Stick is the most popular weapon in Western China, especially provinces of Gansu and Shaanxi. Often taught to family members or only within small rural communities, many of the styles have only recently been discovered and revealed to public. In Chinese Martial Arts stick is considered a weapon basic to all other ones, and the one that can use efficiently in fighting after only three months of practice. Sticks styles taught in Western China are considered to preserve true essence of Shaolin stick fighting, with stick following the power of the body, direct, not flowery techniques, coupling hardness with softness and agile footwork. The set contains traditional long stick (_Tiaozi_ - 6 feet long), stick (_Gun_, 5 feet), short stick (_Bian Gan_, 3 or 4 feet) methods, spear methods merged with stick techniques as well as other weapons and boxing routines practiced in Western China, many of them very rare and known to very few. Demonstrated by Li Senlin, nicknamed "King of Western Stick" (_Xi Bei Gun Wang_) as well as other renowned experts of stick fighting. The set is highly recommended to all interested in traditional Chinese stick fighting methods.


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 13, 2007)

Xue Sheng: Yes, absolutely. I am studying the good stuff. My Shifu is a Wujing (Martial police) that teaches... Wujing, so he knows his ****. He is also still competing all the time and continues to refine and he's not that old (Late 20s and ****ing knowledgeable about world MA for a Chinese; promotes MMA and has also taken interest in Muay Thai). According to him, though, most weapons-based CMA were outlawed at the beginning of new China (And many Shifu killed off during CR) so most have been lost. I had a great class this morning, though, and the weather is sunny so that has changed my mood as well.

tshadowchaser: Is that the one in Hangzhou that I saw on Youtube where they were teaching taxi drivers and running about like madmen and hitting things while screaming like monkeys?

TaiChiTJ: That is quite interesting and I'd be happy to check it out (When I have the funds to do so). I'm more interested in the shorter sticks because they are easier to carry. But long sticks are bad-**** as well.

Police: What are you doing with that long, dangerous-looking stick?
Me: It's a broom.
Police: No.. It isn't. It has no end on it.
Me: Uh... Water buffalo toothpick.. Er! No... Usually I have a bucket at each end.
Police: *Getting pissed off*
Me: *Whack* *Makes a run for it* *Staff gets caught in a doorway and I fall on my ***** *Am promptly arrested* Swiftly aquire Tuberculosis* *Death*

Let's go with the short stick (Especially telescoping baton), then. Shall we?

     - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 13, 2007)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SqgWxnGyW3w&search=kung fu training

     Here is the Youtube video that I was talking about before. See for yourselves.

     - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

     P.S. Dirty stick sounds like a sex toy, O my!


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 14, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Xue Sheng: Yes, absolutely. I am studying the good stuff. My Shifu is a Wujing (Martial police) that teaches... Wujing, so he knows his ****. He is also still competing all the time and continues to refine and he's not that old (Late 20s and ****ing knowledgeable about world MA for a Chinese; promotes MMA and has also taken interest in Muay Thai). According to him, though, most weapons-based CMA were outlawed at the beginning of new China (And many Shifu killed off during CR) so most have been lost. I had a great class this morning, though, and the weather is sunny so that has changed my mood as well.


 
Very true an awful lot of weapons styles and forms have been lost. And most of what you see now are mainly forms were the practitioner does not know the application. And may sifus got killed off during the cultural revolution this is also why even to day those that are very skilled tend not to talk about it much and have few if any students. 

My personal experience in China is all based on Beijing so I cannot say anything about any other area but there are a few in Beijing now that are VERY good and they are starting to come more into public but still no real weapons training. It is my understanding that it is VERY rare on mainland but is more common in Hong Kong and on Taiwan, but I am not sure how much more common that would be.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 14, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=SqgWxnGyW3w&search=kung fu training
> 
> Here is the Youtube video that I was talking about before. See for yourselves.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know why but I am now thinking of the old Viking warrior called a Berzerker.


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 14, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Very true an awful lot of weapons styles and forms have been lost. And most of what you see now are mainly forms were the practitioner does not know the application. And may sifus got killed off during the cultural revolution this is also why even to day those that are very skilled tend not to talk about it much and have few if any students.
> 
> My personal experience in China is all based on Beijing so I cannot say anything about any other area but there are a few in Beijing now that are VERY good and they are starting to come more into public but still no real weapons training. It is my understanding that it is VERY rare on mainland but is more common in Hong Kong and on Taiwan, but I am not sure how much more common that would be.


 
     Even if some weapons applications survived, it wouldn't be practical as the instructors do not use them for daily survival. The only way to be good at using weapons is to use them in combat and live to teach.


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## arnisador (Apr 14, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> The only way to be good at using weapons is to use them in combat and live to teach.



That doesn't bode well for the future of the arts, given that modern combat is overwhelmingly based on rifles and high-tech weapons!


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 14, 2007)

Fair dinkum, though I would consider someone skilled with firearms a martial artist as well. Remember than any idiot can wield a weapon. The question is: Is it technique? Or random slashing (Trigger pulling, et cetera)?


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 15, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Even if some weapons applications survived, it wouldn't be practical as the instructors do not use them for daily survival. The only way to be good at using weapons is to use them in combat and live to teach.


 
Good point also one must take into consideration just what it would mean to pull out a Jain or a dao or other and use it in China.. I am referring to the legal and or funeral consideration here.


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 17, 2007)

TaiChiTJ said:


> Whoops the link I gave you above doesn't take you to the exact location I wanted you to see. Here is Jarek's info, search for it if you are interested.
> 
> Stick is the most popular weapon in Western China, especially provinces of Gansu and Shaanxi. Often taught to family members or only within small rural communities, many of the styles have only recently been discovered and revealed to public. In Chinese Martial Arts stick is considered a weapon basic to all other ones, and the one that can use efficiently in fighting after only three months of practice. Sticks styles taught in Western China are considered to preserve true essence of Shaolin stick fighting, with stick following the power of the body, direct, not flowery techniques, coupling hardness with softness and agile footwork. The set contains traditional long stick (_Tiaozi_ - 6 feet long), stick (_Gun_, 5 feet), short stick (_Bian Gan_, 3 or 4 feet) methods, spear methods merged with stick techniques as well as other weapons and boxing routines practiced in Western China, many of them very rare and known to very few. Demonstrated by Li Senlin, nicknamed &quot;King of Western Stick&quot; (_Xi Bei Gun Wang_) as well as other renowned experts of stick fighting. The set is highly recommended to all interested in traditional Chinese stick fighting methods.


 
     I followed up to this in detail, but only found a VCD collection of forms. I was looking for a school or city where I can find this. At least I now know to look West.


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 17, 2007)

*Mod Note

Off-topic posts split to new thread for further discussion. 

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator*


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 19, 2007)

My wife and I did an exhaustive search (spanning several hours) on Chinese search engines for anything relating to stick combat and came up empty handed. We looked into Xi Gun (The best bet), but it looks like all that is left is the bloody Taolu (forms). I have already asked people on most forums as well, so I can only assume that it is dead. I'm looking at Filipino Martial Arts to fill the gap, but who knows...


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 19, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> My wife and I did an exhaustive search (spanning several hours) on Chinese search engines for anything relating to stick combat and came up empty handed. We looked into Xi Gun (The best bet), but it looks like all that is left is the bloody Taolu (forms). I have already asked people on most forums as well, so I can only assume that it is dead. I'm looking at Filipino Martial Arts to fill the gap, but who knows...


 
Well if you have been to the Chinese sights it is likely I will find nothing either. However the next time I am in Beijing I can check around of you like and PM you through MT if I find anything.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 19, 2007)

> tshadowchaser: Is that the one in Hangzhou that I saw on Youtube where they were teaching taxi drivers and running about like madmen and hitting things while screaming like monkeys?


 
no it is not

this was a very dirty style of fighting the only goal seemed to be putting your opponent out of commission as fast as possible and doing the most damage you could to him


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 19, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Well if you have been to the Chinese sights it is likely I will find nothing either. However the next time I am in Beijing I can check around of you like and PM you through MT if I find anything.


 
Thank you. I appreciate it. =)


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## MaartenSFS (Apr 19, 2007)

tshadowchaser said:


> no it is not
> 
> this was a very dirty style of fighting the only goal seemed to be putting your opponent out of commission as fast as possible and doing the most damage you could to him


 
That's awesome. I'll try one more search on that in Chinese. If that comes up as a blank..


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