# 3 chokes every woman should know.



## Hanzou (Jun 17, 2016)

This one is currently making the rounds on Facebook, and my gf shared it with me because she wanted me to show her the chokes when I got back into town. While I have my personal issues with the Torrance boys, I really enjoyed this video. I think its very important for women to know how to choke someone out if they are attacked, and this video shows 3 very effective chokes that just about any woman can do. I especially enjoyed the modified collar choke utilizing the t-shirt, and the fact that they utilized a small enclosed space where such an attack could likely take place.

Anyway, feel free to comment on the video.


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## MAfreak (Jun 17, 2016)

i always thought, this stuff is important in womens self-defense courses.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 17, 2016)

Love that t-shirt choke.


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## drop bear (Jun 17, 2016)

Yeah the t shirt is very schoolyard.

Needs to add a get up to that sequence.


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## kehcorpz (Jun 18, 2016)

Why doesn't she try to bite him in the ear or poke the eyes? 
His ear is right next to her face. I'd rather bite the ear off this is probably more effective than doing such a complicated choke.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

It's really not complicated. Things seem complicated when you're not trained. Start training dude.


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## kehcorpz (Jun 18, 2016)

Does this stuff really work as easily as in the video? I mean this is exactly the same issue as with any self defense video.
In the video it looks fool proof but I'd not rely on it working. For example the guy could just hit her against the head when he notices
he's being choked with his own shirt. These are things you cannot simulate cause the guy in the video just plays along.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

There are no guarantees. But the better you are trained, the better your chances of surviving an attack.


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## kehcorpz (Jun 18, 2016)

I really have my doubts that an untrained, non athletic woman can even do this leg grab effectively. He might simply shake her off.
I think it's a bit risky to make videos like this one. Women may just watch this and get a false sense of security.


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## Jaeimseu (Jun 18, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I really have my doubts that an untrained, non athletic woman can even do this leg grab effectively. He might simply shake her off.
> I think it's a bit risky to make videos like this one. Women may just watch this and get a false sense of security.


Untrained people can't do much effectively. But if someone trains the technique enough it can be quite effective. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I really have my doubts that an untrained, non athletic woman can even do this leg grab effectively. He might simply shake her off.
> I think it's a bit risky to make videos like this one. Women may just watch this and get a false sense of security.



That is why you do the get up.  If he shakes her off she has space to move.

Also those choke are the best position to bite from.  So if you if you want to be dangerous at biting you are still better off training those chokes.


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## Hanzou (Jun 18, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Why doesn't she try to bite him in the ear or poke the eyes?
> His ear is right next to her face. I'd rather bite the ear off this is probably more effective than doing such a complicated choke.



How in the world is a bite more effective than a choke? Yeah, the pain may startle them, but that isn't going to end the fight. There's plenty of examples of people getting their ears bitten and eyes poked and still continuing to assault people.

Choking the assailant unconscious ends the confrontation and allows the victim to escape.

Save your bites and eye pokes for when the perp is choked out.

As for complexity, it isn't complex once you train it. Getting to Eve's level of skill takes time and practice.


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## Danny T (Jun 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> As for complexity, it isn't complex once you train it. Getting to Eve's level of skill takes time and practice.


This is the thing.
It 'Has' to be trained...And it takes 'time in training and practice' to get to the level of skill need to use it.
Same for most all physical one on one self defensive actions.


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## Buka (Jun 18, 2016)

That guillotine choke is the first one I learned and the first one I teach. I find that the more wiry a person is, the easier they pick it up and eventually become proficient with it. I love that choke.

The t-shirt choke - I prefer a different collar choke from the bottom. I was never told a name for it and was never able to find it on youtube (probably because I don't know the name) Maybe I can explain it.

From guard - pull them with your legs so they post, wrapping your left arm around their right arm to control it. Your left hand goes to their left collar (near their neck area) your hand is palm towards you, knuckles toward them. With your right hand you reach past your grip on their collar (by the back of their neck) In self defense we usually do this by slapping upside of the head, then grabbing the back collar.

Now you loop your right arm over their head - if the opportunity is there. Otherwise, you push your forearm against the side of their head/neck (their left side) like you're trying to bend their neck to their right - then give them "an out" so you can loop your arm over.

You know what comes from there.

Why I prefer it is because it works against any kind of clothing. The one shown in the video is great against t-shirts and the like, but not against long coats, winter coats and thick leather jackets. (I live in New England) We've worked it against any and every kind of clothing. Suits, tuxes, raincoat, leathers, dress shirts, big winter parkers. The only thing it sometimes doesn't work with is if someone has an old t-shirt with the t-shirt collar torn off (Think New York Italian, circa 1980's) sometimes the shirt just rips - in which case you go to something else. Including the fashion police.

I know a decent Jits guy can counter. But I've pulled it off a few times against blue belts in class.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2016)

*Hanzou, we have seen over and over again in the cage* when a trained MMA fighter takes a decent eye poke that they are in a definite bad way.  Eye pokes and bites can work just fine.  Just like the Chokes demonstrated in the video work excellently if applied correctly.  Of course all of them might not work as well.  *People just need to train and get better to give themselves a chance in a moment of violence!*


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## Hanzou (Jun 18, 2016)

Really? Yuki Nakai was blinded by an eye gauge and he went on to win his match. Mike Tyson bit Holyfield in the ears multiple times. All it did was piss Holyfield off. He was fully capable of continuing to fight after the bites occurred.

In either case, Kerchop's argument was that biting and eye guaging are *more effective *at stopping an assailant than chokes. That was the part I took issue with.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2016)

*Last UFC I remember that had an eye gouge someone took a finger strike and he was done.*  I forget the fighter but he curled up in a fetal position. So don't count out an eye poke or a bite.  A bite to the side of the neck would be just plain nasty an ear maybe not so much.   Now, as to the effectiveness of chokes.  *We both know they work very, very well!*


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Last UFC I remember that had an eye gouge someone took a finger strike and he was done.*  I forget the fighter but he curled up in a fetal position. So don't count out an eye poke or a bite.  A bite to the side of the neck would be just plain nasty an ear maybe not so much.   Now, as to the effectiveness of chokes.  *We both know they work very, very well!*


Very true Brian. Eye pokes and Biting can be devastating to the person on the receiving end. Paul Vunak is big on biting techniques because it works when you are in a bad situation on the ground.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

I would never support biting for self defense, for a simple reason. I don't believe that most people are able to willingly bite through another person's skin, even in self defense, and think they would be more willing to choke or punch the other person.


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2016)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Hanzou, we have seen over and over again in the cage* when a trained MMA fighter takes a decent eye poke that they are in a definite bad way.  Eye pokes and bites can work just fine.  Just like the Chokes demonstrated in the video work excellently if applied correctly.  Of course all of them might not work as well.  *People just need to train and get better to give themselves a chance in a moment of violence!*



I am not paying a martial arts expert for "bite them" i could have come up with that. A ten year old could come up with bite them or poke their eye. (Trust me they are bite scratch and poking machines)

Seriously after ten years of eye poking you will be about as good as if you had spent ten minutes. The trick with applying a move is to be able to fix a position that you can eye poke or bite. That is what takes the training,the expert advice and where you should be putting your faith and money.

So to eye poke or bite from that position in the most effective manner you would need to train the choke not the bite.

And the same with eye pokes. The better eye poker is the better striker standing and grappler on the deck.

And look I have kudo masks and boxers who have never trained eye pokes. So I can actually test that.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I would never support biting for self defense, for a simple reason. I don't believe that most people are able to willingly bite through another person's skin, even in self defense, and think they would be more willing to choke or punch the other person.


That's possibly true. I've never had to do it. I've also never had to shoot someone. Probably because I've never been in a bad enough situation. But there is no doubt in my mind that I would do anything I had to do to get out of a bad situation.


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Very true Brian. Eye pokes and Biting can be devastating to the person on the receiving end. Paul Vunak is big on biting techniques because it works when you are in a bad situation on the ground.




He is big in using jits to do it as well.





(I would have stayed in side with that fat guy and just not get swept)


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2016)

*Drop Bear I would agree that these are quickly picked up skills ie. biting, eye poking*.  I would also agree that the better striker and grapplers could execute these techniques very effectively.  What I don't agree with is anyone saying they are not effective.  They are brutally effective.  As Tames D mentioned look at some of Paul Vunaks videos on kino mutai or biting.  Very effective stuff.  Scary if as a grappler you realize how open you leave yourself some times.  *Food for thought*!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Very true Brian. Eye pokes and Biting can be devastating to the person on the receiving end. Paul Vunak is big on biting techniques because it works when you are in a bad situation on the ground.



Totally agree!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

Tames D said:


> That's possibly true. I've never had to do it. I've also never had to shoot someone. Probably because I've never been in a bad enough situation. But there is no doubt in my mind that I would do anything I had to do to get out of a bad situation.


I have never had to either. I'm fairly confident that I could, due to my own personality and things I've done for myself, but I can't say for certain. Regardless, I think it would be much tougher for the average person then choking someone. No evidence for that, but to me it's something that would require more conviction.


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## Hanzou (Jun 18, 2016)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Last UFC I remember that had an eye gouge someone took a finger strike and he was done.*  I forget the fighter but he curled up in a fetal position. So don't count out an eye poke or a bite.  A bite to the side of the neck would be just plain nasty an ear maybe not so much.   Now, as to the effectiveness of chokes.  *We both know they work very, very well!*



I'm not counting them out, or saying that they're ineffective. I'm saying that on the grand scale of techniques they're not as effective as the guard or chokes. If someone has limited training time, are we really going to use it teaching them biting or poking techniques that can never be trained at full strength, or should we use it teaching the guard and chokes?

I know what I'm spending time on, and it isn't learning how to imitate Dracula. People have different levels of pain tolerance, but everyone needs oxygen to their brains.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 18, 2016)

*Yet, eye gouges and biting can be taught so quickly and learned so easily. * Faster than learning the guard or chokes.  However, personally I do not see it as a chose one or the other.  Why not train them all and more?  Why not have the option of utilizing what you need in that moment and if it is a choke then do it.  If it is an eye gouge or bite then so be it.  I don't believe in training to be limited.  If I need to utilize a firearm or blade I am highly proficient, just like if I need to grapple, strike, trap, lock, kick, etc.  *Don't limit yourself!*


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## Hanzou (Jun 18, 2016)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Yet, eye gouges and biting can be taught so quickly and learned so easily. * Faster than learning the guard or chokes.  However, personally I do not see it as a chose one or the other.  Why not train them all and more?  Why not have the option of utilizing what you need in that moment and if it is a choke then do it.  If it is an eye gouge or bite then so be it.  I don't believe in training to be limited.  If I need to utilize a firearm or blade I am highly proficient, just like if I need to grapple, strike, trap, lock, kick, etc.  *Don't limit yourself!*



Yeah, and they're also less reliable.

Why not train them all? Because training time is limited. You spend a 100 hours practicing how to bite someone? It's better to spend 100 hours learning guard and chokes. Go with what's more reliable, not schoolyard tricks with dubious results that will only up the level of violence. 

I got no problem with blade and gun training btw.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Yeah, and they're also less reliable.
> 
> Why not train them all? Because training time is limited. You spend a 100 hours practicing how to bite someone? It's better to spend 100 hours learning guard and chokes. Go with what's more reliable, not schoolyard tricks with dubious results that will only up the level of violence.
> 
> I got no problem with blade and gun training btw.


Who's talking about spending 100's of hours on Kino Mutai?


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2016)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *Yet, eye gouges and biting can be taught so quickly and learned so easily. * Faster than learning the guard or chokes.  However, personally I do not see it as a chose one or the other.  Why not train them all and more?  Why not have the option of utilizing what you need in that moment and if it is a choke then do it.  If it is an eye gouge or bite then so be it.  I don't believe in training to be limited.  If I need to utilize a firearm or blade I am highly proficient, just like if I need to grapple, strike, trap, lock, kick, etc.  *Don't limit yourself!*



Training is all about limiting yourself. You take tools away to train other tools.

Or I would just take a gun to training.


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## Steve (Jun 19, 2016)

Buka said:


> That guillotine choke is the first one I learned and the first one I teach. I find that the more wiry a person is, the easier they pick it up and eventually become proficient with it. I love that choke.
> 
> The t-shirt choke - I prefer a different collar choke from the bottom. I was never told a name for it and was never able to find it on youtube (probably because I don't know the name) Maybe I can explain it.
> 
> ...


if I understand your description correctly, that's a pretty common setup for a cross collar choke. it's sneaky. I like to use it when I can break the guys posture slip the hand around as I let him post up. I'm sure there's a video out there somewhere. will try to find one.


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## Buka (Jun 19, 2016)

Steve said:


> if I understand your description correctly, that's a pretty common setup for a cross collar choke. it's sneaky. I like to use it when I can break the guys posture slip the hand around as I let him post up. I'm sure there's a video out there somewhere. will try to find one.



That would be great, Steve, I appreciate it, never seen it online, want to see if it's the same as I was taught.


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## Charlemagne (Jun 19, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Why doesn't she try to bite him in the ear or poke the eyes?
> His ear is right next to her face. I'd rather bite the ear off this is probably more effective than doing such a complicated choke.



I see 5-year old kids doing chokes like that on a regular basis.  Of course, as with any martial arts skill, it needs to be practiced repeatedly, drill, and tested against a resisting opponent.

If you are a woman facing a possible sexual assault, you have to consider what happens if the magical eye gouge or ear bite doesn't work, or it does, but not enough to remove the threat.   5-10 seconds to unconsciousness is better in many cases than a really pissed off dude who is on top of you, and starts punching you in the face.

Eye gouges and bites are not magical techniques.  I am not saying that they cannot be effective depending on the situation, but they are not a skeleton key either.  I could particularly see them being useful in a self-defense situation for the purposes of creating the space or time to allow a choke to be applied, a weapon to be accessed, etc.  But don't count of them being fight-enders, because they might not be.  A drugged up or drunk guy might not feel the bit or eye poke that much, but they can still be choked unconscious.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 19, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> I think its very important for women to know how to choke someone out if they are attacked, ... feel free to comment on the video.


The technique is only the 50%. The other 50% is the ability. IMO, you have to develop your arm strength to make your choke work. Unfortunately, the ability training is painful and tedious. Not everybody are willing to spend their training time to develop it.

If you can hang on the pole (or street sign) as long as you can. Repeat it 10 times daily, after 3 years, you will get a "strong choke". Until then, your choke may not be strong enough to work on your opponent. A weak choke can only make your opponent to be mad at you and want to hurt you more.


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## Buka (Jun 19, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The technique is only the 50%. The other 50% is the ability. IMO, you have to develop your arm strength to make your choke work. Unfortunately, the ability training is painful and tedious. Not everybody are willing to spend their training time to develop it.
> 
> If you can hang on the pole (or street sign) as long as you can. Repeat it 10 times daily, after 3 years, you will get a "strong choke". Until then, your choke may not be strong enough to work on your opponent. A weak choke can only make your opponent to be mad at you and want to hurt you more.



I respectfully disagree. My wife is 130 pounds and although in shape, doesn't really have strong arms, at least as you and I would think of strong arms. But her technique is good. She's choked out more people than I have, not to a tap, but to a nap. And I know many others that fit that bill as well. I'm a stick man in his sixties with pipe cleaner arms, but if I get position, bro, it's over, regardless of how big, how strong or how crazy Rip Van Winkle _thinks_ he is.

Of course, strong arms never do go to waste with strong technique.


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## Charlemagne (Jun 19, 2016)

Buka said:


> I respectfully disagree. My wife is 130 pounds and although in shape, doesn't really have strong arms, at least as you and I would think of strong arms. But her technique is good. She's choked out more people than I have, not to a tap, but to a nap. And I know many others that fit that bill as well. I'm a stick man in his sixties with pipe cleaner arms, but if I get position, bro, it's over, regardless of how big, how strong or how crazy Rip Van Winkle _thinks_ he is.
> 
> Of course, strong arms never do go to waste with strong technique.



Agreed.  Strength is always a plus, so if one can train to get stronger, that is only going to help.  However, one can put on a pretty good choke without much in the way of strength.


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## Jaeimseu (Jun 20, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Agreed.  Strength is always a plus, so if one can train to get stronger, that is only going to help.  However, one can put on a pretty good choke without much in the way of strength.


I'd say position is far more important than arm strength. My 3 year old son has enough power in his arms to put me to sleep if I was unable to move. It only takes a few seconds of the technique is good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Charlemagne (Jun 20, 2016)

Jaeimseu said:


> I'd say position is far more important than arm strength. My 3 year old son has enough power in his arms to put me to sleep if I was unable to move. It only takes a few seconds of the technique is good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Good technique can help to overcome strength, of course, particularly against an unskilled person.  The second part of your statement is important "if I was unable to move".  Strength can overcome technique as well if the disparity is high enough between persons.  Pretty hard to get a choke when you can't get, or hold, the position.  They have weight classes in combative sports for a reason.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 20, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> Good technique can help to overcome strength, of course, particularly against an unskilled person.  The second part of your statement is important "if I was unable to move".  Strength can overcome technique as well if the disparity is high enough between persons.  Pretty hard to get a choke when you can't get, or hold, the position.  They have weight classes in combative sports for a reason.


Yep. Superior strength is very helpful (although not necessary) in getting to the choke position to start with. Once a choke is properly locked in, it takes very little strength to finish.


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## kuniggety (Jun 20, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> Does this stuff really work as easily as in the video? I mean this is exactly the same issue as with any self defense video.
> In the video it looks fool proof but I'd not rely on it working. For example the guy could just hit her against the head when he notices
> he's being choked with his own shirt. These are things you cannot simulate cause the guy in the video just plays along.



A properly applied choke will make you pass out in a matter of seconds (with permanent brain damage and death with not much longer being held after you passing out). This is why you see him tapping as soon as she sets it in. I've been choked out and joint locked by girls 70+ lbs lighter than me, with me resisting, and I have training. Eve (the girl in this video who is last I checked a BJJ blue belt but probably a purple by now or near it) could dismantle you and choke you out without you being able to do anything about it. Training makes all the difference.


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## JR 137 (Jun 21, 2016)

Why is it just about every time someone posts something along these lines, someone's got to say "why don't you just bite/eye gouge?"

How about you bite the ear off while you're choking them out?  While we're at it, makes sure a foot or knee is firmly planted into the testicles during the choke.  And have a gun within arm's reach to pistol whip; if that fails pull the trigger.

Oh, and it's the victim's fault because she shouldn't have been in the situation to begin with; she should have known her surroundings.

Am I the only one tired of the ridiculousness?


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## Charlemagne (Jun 21, 2016)

JR 137 said:


> Am I the only one tired of the ridiculousness?



No, you aren't.

Eye gouges, bites, etc. can be effective techniques depending on the situation, but as I noted earlier, they are no skeleton key, and they are not fool proof, and they are not necessarily fight-enders.  In fact, if someone tries them and they don't work, it could go bad quickly.

Say you are a 120 lb woman, and you eye gouge your 200 lb would be rapist, and instead of driving him away, it pisses him off to the point that, rather than just hold you down and rape you, he beats you senseless before raping you anyway.

An eye gouge or a bite, to my mind, is something which could allow you to space or time to apply a technique that is going to end things, such as the chokes shown in the video at the beginning of this thread, getting access to a weapon.  Or, it could simply give you time to run away if you are not in an enclosed space.  

To be fair, there are many things that women can and should do to avoid such situations before they even start, but that was not the point of Rener and Eve's video.


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## crazydiamond (Jun 22, 2016)

I am going to go out on a limb and agree in general - a woman is going to be slammed in that car,. It takes a general level of "toughness" that some women might have naturally - or would get by training a long while  BJJ or MMA .

Its not enough to just learn a choke but to role and spar a bit roughly have the wind or snot hit out of you - with a guy who outweighs you by 50lbs or more and keep going for it.


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## Hanzou (Jun 22, 2016)

crazydiamond said:


> I am going to go out on a limb and agree in general - a woman is going to be slammed in that car,. It takes a general level of "toughness" that some women might have naturally - or would get by training a long while  BJJ or MMA .
> 
> Its not enough to just learn a choke but to role and spar a bit roughly have the wind or snot hit out of you - with a guy who outweighs you by 50lbs or more and keep going for it.



Frankly, many women in MA don't have that level of toughness. That's why they stick to stuff like TKD and karate.


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## crazydiamond (Jun 22, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Frankly, many women in MA don't have that level of toughness. That's why they stick to stuff like TKD and karate.




Last night in class we had drills where your mounted and your opponent with 16 oz gloves just rained down punches (20% power)  -  while you tried to throw them off you. It was one thing to just learn shrimp/leg hook/arm lock/hip thrust while the person just sat there  - but raining down punches and you are trying to cover your face?

Its a challenge mentally and emotionally - for any gender.  Scary stuff.


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## aedrasteia (Jun 22, 2016)

Charlemagne said:


> To be fair, there are many things that women can and should do to avoid such situations before they even start, but that was not the point of Rener and Eve's video.



Much to agree with in your post. Please share/discuss these things re: avoidance,, w/stipulation that women/girls will most likely be with a person from 'inside the circle of trust'  (A. Vachss and G. DeBecker). Discuss re: grooming behavior and progressive intrusion. 
thank you, A


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## drop bear (Jun 22, 2016)

crazydiamond said:


> Last night in class we had drills where your mounted and your opponent with 16 oz gloves just rained down punches (20% power)  -  while you tried to throw them off you. It was one thing to just learn shrimp/leg hook/arm lock/hip thrust while the person just sat there  - but raining down punches and you are trying to cover your face?
> 
> Its a challenge mentally and emotionally - for any gender.  Scary stuff.



It is very eady to get comfortable on the bottom just rolling.  Punches spice that up a bit.


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## Buka (Jun 22, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Frankly, many women in MA don't have that level of toughness. That's why they stick to stuff like TKD and karate.



I don't know, kind of a broad brush you're painting with, (as I teach Karate) all my women box, not boxercise, box. Not with each other, with men. They roll and they kickbox. As for level of toughness, some do, some don't. But if you bring them along right, they're just fine. But you have to watch their attitude when they're empowered with fighting skills. I will admit, though, they're usually more comfortable rolling than sparring.

One thing I've noticed about women sparring...they're such head hunters. Way more then men.


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## JR 137 (Jun 23, 2016)

I know some ladies in karate that are tougher than a coffin nail.  And I'm not talking about just taking a hit nor being dojo tough.

I've been around plenty of male wrestlers who's toughness didn't leave the mat.

Haven't been around enough BJJ men nor women to have an honest opinion.

What have I seen regarding toughness on and off the floor?  Same as the rest of society as a whole - there's the ridiculously tough, the ridiculously weak, and everything in between across the arts.  And there's no shortage of people who are tough when in comfortable surroundings (such as a dojo) yet lose all confidence once they walk outside that comfort zone.  Same exact thing can be said for non martial artists.

Reminds me of what Bas Rutten said about some dojo warriors who train at his gym; he's got some phenomenal fighters there, but once they get to competition, it's like they're a completely different person.  They easily fold under the pressure.

You either have it or you don't.  All the training in the world may help a little, but I really question how much, even with the best and most realistic training.


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## Hanzou (Jun 23, 2016)

Keep in mind, when I say "tough" there's different levels of tough. The bottom line is that many women (and frankly some men) aren't into having big sweaty guys laying on top of them while training. It doesn't help that the guard resembles missionary position.

Also when you roll with a woman, your hands end up in the naughty parts by accident on a fairly consistent basis. Not to be crass, but I've probably felt more boobs than the average man because of Bjj. I've also had plenty of butts in my face from both sexes throughout my Bjj career. There's simply no way to avoid that kind of contact, and it honestly can make many people feel very uncomfortable.

On the flip side, in arts like karate and TKD, the contact can be pretty minimal in comparison.


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## JR 137 (Jun 23, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Keep in mind, when I say "tough" there's different levels of tough. The bottom line is that many women (and frankly some men) aren't into having big sweaty guys laying on top of them while training. It doesn't help that the guard resembles missionary position.
> 
> Also when you roll with a woman, your hands end up in the naughty parts by accident on a fairly consistent basis. Not to be crass, but I've probably felt more boobs than the average man because of Bjj. I've also had plenty of butts in my face from both sexes throughout my Bjj career. There's simply no way to avoid that kind of contact, and it honestly can make many people feel very uncomfortable.
> 
> On the flip side, in arts like karate and TKD, the contact can be pretty minimal in comparison.



There's also a valid argument the other way around...

People choose grappling because they don't want to get punched or kicked.  When things get uncomfortable, they can tap.  I've heard many people (men and women) say they grapple because they don't want to take a punch.

Judo seems to be quite a popular grappling art with women in my neck of the woods.  I'm pretty sure it's just as popular a grappling art elsewhere.

I don't think fear is the main thing that drives people (men and women) to go to one and stay away from another.  There's a lot of reasons behind the decision - who they're training with, teacher, schedule, cost, and mostly doing something they're interested in.

Most BJJ dojos here also double as MMA gyms.  Pretty sure you can do just BJJ at any of them, but I think most prospective students who want to train for a combination of SD, exercise, and socialization want to avoid the UFC culture.  I'm not saying that's exactly what they'll get, but that's what they perceive.


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