# The Dark Knight.



## arnisador (Jul 18, 2008)

Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!

There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!

P.S. The trailer for _The Watchmen_ is very encouraging. _The Spirit_ looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 18, 2008)

arnisador said:


> There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.


 
Why?


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## Drac (Jul 18, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Why?


 
Do you mean why a trailer or why a T-4 ????


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## Drac (Jul 18, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!
> 
> There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!


 
Dark as in evil or dark as in poor lighting????



arnisador said:


> P.S. The trailer for _The Watchmen_ is very encouraging. _The Spirit_ looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.


 
I am looking forward to* The Spirit*...


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## Guro Harold (Jul 18, 2008)

Yeah, Christian Bale is taking over as John Conner.


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## Drac (Jul 18, 2008)

Palusut said:


> Yeah, Christian Bale is taking over as John Conner.


 
IMHO, T-3 was not that good...I dunno know if I'll bother with T-4 unless I hear some really positive reviews...


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## arnisador (Jul 18, 2008)

arnisador said:


> There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.





Andy Moynihan said:


> Why?



It was a short _Terminator: Salvation_ trailer. I was guessing that they wanted to rush it in because Christian Bale is in both films and that they weren't very advanced in filming yet, but that's just a guess!


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## arnisador (Jul 18, 2008)

Drac said:


> Dark as in evil or dark as in poor lighting????


 
Poorly lit. It made it hard to appreciate a lot of Batman's hand-to-hand combat.



> I am looking forward to* The Spirit*...



I never liked the comics very well. The movie trailer looked like _Sin City 2_! The style was exactly the same.

There was also a trailer for _The Day The Earth Stood Still_ (Keanu Reeves). It hinted at a possible environmental theme.

_The Watchmen_ really looks encouraging, however.


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## CoryKS (Jul 18, 2008)

Oh man, I hope they do Watchmen correctly.  Please, please, please.


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## stickarts (Jul 18, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!
> 
> There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!
> 
> P.S. The trailer for _The Watchmen_ is very encouraging. _The Spirit_ looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.


 
Thanks for the review! I can't wait to see it! Maybe next week.
Me? I am off right now to see "Space Chimps" with the family.


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 18, 2008)

I admit that I was rather underwhelmed with "Batman Begins" compared to the hype so I've already got a cynical attitude about this one


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## arnisador (Jul 18, 2008)

The origin story is over, so this can jump in with both feet and hit the ground running. Give it a chance!


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 18, 2008)

well the origin story was part of it.

But most of what was supposed to be "darker, grittier, more realistic" was really just a matter of production; lighting, camera angles and sets.. and I rarely give those kinds of things much credit for really creating the movie.  Yeah, they are nice to add to the total atmosphere of a movie, but they don't give the movie something it doesn't have.

Looking past that, this is what I had

1) Story- Not counting the origin story, the whole plot was inane.  Poison the water supply and then steal a secret highly-convenient weapon to turn water into mist so that everybody inhales the poison into having nightmares.  Good grief but that is a seriously stupid "bad guy" plot.  Too much coincidence, contrivance and convenience there to be take seriously.  *Most* bag-guy-plots in superhero movies are pretty dumb on the face of it so that's no big knock on it as another superhero movie plot, but then don't expect me to elevate my thoughts of this movie amongst any others.

2) Talk - Christian Bale, when you are Bruce Wayne you are not Batman, stop whispering everything and growling out your dialog, *talk*.

3) Characterization - Batman didn't have the professionalism I would expect.  He did some decidedly non-Batman actions and attempts. Watching him run from the cops was like watching Antonio Banderas put on a costume and run through town claiming to be Zorro.  No, the real Zorro is back in the bat-cave, you're just an amateur in the suit.

4. Acting/Dialog/Directing  - Not sure who to pin this one on but..the soap-opera, over-melodramatic line-delivery...ugh  "Is there anyone here who *doesn't* have amnesia?"  *That* is not 'gritty realism', that is 'lazy'.  Realism is taking the time to flesh out a three dimensional character in the dialog and the acting and the directing. Having everyone over-dramatize every line and every exchange os just..well, people don't talk like that.   Even in emergencies or in serious situations.  Sure, it adds for "drama" but not for "believability" or "empathy"

Overall it wasn't too bad a movie.  I watch much worse on a regular basis.  It was a decent entertainment with B movie level acting/directing and C movie level story and some pretty good production values.  Not nearly, in my opinion, the great movie the hype has it to be.

and speaking of the Origin Story, the first Batman movie by Burton got it right.  Right into the action, very light backstory told throughout, mostly through flashbacks.  Non-intrusive and the audience didn't have to suffer through half a movie to get on with the character. (although  almost get the feeling that Nolan just wanted to tell an origin story but had to throw in the bad guys to make it an action/super-hero movie). 

Also, on the subject.  the main character is a guy who dress up like a *bat* to fight crime.  Remember at core how silly an idea that is.  You've got  a simple backstory that "said crimefighter is rich was access to lot's of cool tech" .. don't bury yourself in the minutia of going shopping for a utility belt and a pimping out your wings...  Work within the reality of the fantasy setting and just go with it and don't try to justify it all to be taken seriously, but treat the fantasy as serious in its on right and people will come along for the ride.  Otherwise you end  up in the uncanny valley. (A *lot* of vampire movies in the last thirty years or so have fallen into this trap...too much time trying to justify vampires exist in a 'modern' world)


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## zDom (Jul 18, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> blah blah blah, harsh criticism, blah blah





I watched it again Wednesday on DVD. Loved it.. AGAIN.


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## shesulsa (Jul 18, 2008)

Well, the movies are based on the comic book series and several graphic novels. So, it's kind of like making a movie about Moby Dick where all he does is fight the whale and the rest is all short flash-backs. Doesn't really do the whole point of a tribute film justice, eh?


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## girlbug2 (Jul 18, 2008)

stickarts said:


> I am off right now to see "Space Chimps" with the family.


 
Oh, you poor thing...


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## MA-Caver (Jul 18, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> well the origin story was part of it.
> 
> But most of what was supposed to be "darker, grittier, more realistic" was really just a matter of production; lighting, camera angles and sets.. and I rarely give those kinds of things much credit for really creating the movie.  Yeah, they are nice to add to the total atmosphere of a movie, but they don't give the movie something it doesn't have.
> 
> Looking past that, this is what I had


Fearless... my take... on your take... 


FearlessFreep said:


> *1*) Story- Not counting the origin story, the whole plot was inane.  Poison the water supply and then steal a secret highly-convenient weapon to turn water into mist so that everybody inhales the poison into having nightmares.  Good grief but that is a seriously stupid "bad guy" plot.  Too much coincidence, contrivance and convenience there to be take seriously.  *Most* bag-guy-plots in superhero movies are pretty dumb on the face of it so that's no big knock on it as another superhero movie plot, but then don't expect me to elevate my thoughts of this movie amongst any others.


 True a lot of bad guy plots are dumb, but then a lot of bad guy plots are right out of the comics and that's what this is... a comic book movie. Besides they had to do something with the significance of the little blue flower, his ninja training and Raul Al Gul right? Tie it all in together. 
Oh and in case you didn't know it... movies like this... I tend to leave my brain in the car. I enjoy it more. 




FearlessFreep said:


> *2*) Talk - Christian Bale, when you are Bruce Wayne you are not Batman, stop whispering everything and growling out your dialog, *talk*.


 Bale was never a strong speaking person. His other movies will attest to that. Also remember *why* he chose "the Bat!" Raul Al Gul even explained it just into his first few days of training that to choose something that your enemies will fear. Thanks to your aforementioned vampire movies a lot of people (incorrectly and needlessly I might stress) fear bats. Likewise his first major fear was the bats that came out of the cave at the bottom of the well that he fell into. 
Growling at certain villains here and there was a bit contrived but it probably worked for some people. Personally I think Bale is able to carry it off but my heart still goes for Keaton who surprised everyone with his take on the dual personality crime fighter with a personal vendetta. 



FearlessFreep said:


> *3*) Characterization - Batman didn't have the professionalism I would expect.  He did some decidedly non-Batman actions and attempts. Watching him run from the cops was like watching Antonio Banderas put on a costume and run through town claiming to be Zorro.  No, the real Zorro is back in the bat-cave, you're just an amateur in the suit.


 Well at the time the cops didn't know he was on their side. Not to mention they were shooting at him and called a heavily armed SWAT team to boot. Would you stand around and try to explain yourself? Neither would I. But at least he managed to befriend Gordon who would eventually help him clean out the corruption in the department that was there in the first place. 



FearlessFreep said:


> *4*. Acting/Dialog/Directing  - Not sure who to pin this one on but..the soap-opera, over-melodramatic line-delivery...ugh  "Is there anyone here who *doesn't* have amnesia?"  *That* is not 'gritty realism', that is 'lazy'.  Realism is taking the time to flesh out a three dimensional character in the dialog and the acting and the directing. Having everyone over-dramatize every line and every exchange os just..well, people don't talk like that.   Even in emergencies or in serious situations.  Sure, it adds for "drama" but not for "believability" or "empathy"


 True, no everyone talks with a comic book dialog in mind. But it is after all a comic book movie. 



FearlessFreep said:


> Overall it wasn't too bad a movie.  I watch much worse on a regular basis.  It was a decent entertainment with B movie level acting/directing and C movie level story and some pretty good production values.  Not nearly, in my opinion, the great movie the hype has it to be.


Agreed... not as great as Burton's vision but not so bad that I walk out of the theater and into another (which I've done several times before if dissatisfied with what I paid for). 



FearlessFreep said:


> and speaking of the Origin Story, the first Batman movie by Burton got it right.  Right into the action, very light backstory told throughout, mostly through flashbacks.  Non-intrusive and the audience didn't have to suffer through half a movie to get on with the character. (although  almost get the feeling that Nolan just wanted to tell an origin story but had to throw in the bad guys to make it an action/super-hero movie).


 Actually if you're a true DK fan you'd see that the "origin story" was wrong on both accounts. The murder of his parents yes, was done right... but his decision to become a bat was wrong. If you recall... In the Mansion Wayne is pacing the study in front of the fireplace after making his fateful decision to fight crime in honor of his parents and free Gotham citizens from the corruption that was plaguing their fair city (sorry), he was wondering what can he become to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies (criminals)??? Just then a bat flies into the room via an open window and "That's IT! I'll become a bat!" 



FearlessFreep said:


> Also, on the subject.  the main character is a guy who dress up like a *bat* to fight crime.  Remember at core how silly an idea that is.  You've got  a simple backstory that "said crime fighter is rich was access to lot's of cool tech" .. don't bury yourself in the minutia of going shopping for a utility belt and a pimping out your wings...  Work within the reality of the fantasy setting and just go with it and don't try to justify it all to be taken seriously, but treat the fantasy as serious in its on right and people will come along for the ride.  Otherwise you end  up in the uncanny valley. (A *lot* of vampire movies in the last thirty years or so have fallen into this trap...too much time trying to justify vampires exist in a 'modern' world)


 At the core, yes it is pretty silly. So is a guy who dresses up in skin-tight red and blue leotards swinging from building to building or (again) skin-tight red and blue leotards that flies everywhere and is the only registered (real) alien from the planet, and so on. 
Burton's first Batman film focused a lot on the origins of the Joker and then killed him off, go figure that one out. 
I think showing how he acquired his "wonderful toys" a bit at a time was a good way to show that instead of volia there it all is. They knew they were going to make a sequel so better to explain it all now and it's out of the way for the next film. It also gave Morgan Freeman an excuse to be there. I think if they went straight into it, belt, car, and other "wonderful toys" then that would've been jumping into the uncanny valley right? 
Kinda go figure also that the Wayne/Batman character is an extremely complex character in of by itself. Not easy to tell his story. 

One last thing... kinda funny that guys our age are taking this comic book story seriously enough to have these kind of in-depth discussions huh? 


Right. 
Escapism. 

p.s. I think Batman Returns was/is still the best of them all so far. Devito's Penguin and Phiffer's Catwoman absolutely rocked.


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 19, 2008)

> Actually if you're a true DK fan you'd see that the "origin story" was wrong on both accounts



I just meant "got it right" from the point of the movie pacing and story telling narrative point of view.



> Personally I think Bale is able to carry it off but my heart still goes for Keaton who surprised everyone with his take on the dual personality crime fighter with a personal vendetta.



I think Keaton nailed the dual personality better than most I've seen.  For Clooney, it seemed like Batman was Bruce Wayne in the bat-suit and for Bale it seemed like Bruce Wayne was Batman in a tux.  Keaton portrayed the Wayne/Batman duality with more complexity and subtlety and hit the pitch pretty well

For the most part, my point wasn't that it was a bad movie. It was a decent comic-book super-hero adaptation into a movie.  It's entertaining and when it shows up on TV, I watch it if I can.

Most of my dislikes of the movie is that it's painted as a "gritty, realistic" superhero movie.  All the hype talks bout Nolan's 'vision' for this world that Batman lives in.  However, most of what gives "Batman Begins" it's 'realism' is in areas that can be pretty much bought... lighting, camera work, sets, etc... production values. What really brings a story to life as far as making you sit up and think "these are real people I can relate to" are those areas that are far more abstract; acting, dialog, story, etc.. and from that point of view, "Batman Begins" was pretty much just another run-of-the-mill superhero movie with some pretty strong deficiencies.  I don't dislike the movie, I dislike the way the movie is sold to me : )


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## arnisador (Jul 19, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> I think Keaton nailed the dual personality better than most I've seen.  For Clooney, it seemed like Batman was Bruce Wayne in the bat-suit and for Bale it seemed like Bruce Wayne was Batman in a tux.  Keaton portrayed the Wayne/Batman duality with more complexity and subtlety and hit the pitch pretty well



Well put, and I agree. But the last two movies are hitting the right tone for the world in which he operates; they're upping the realism; and, they're keeping the production values very high. Michael Keaton did catch that duality well...but that duality isn't the focus here. In the current movie it's the hero/anti-hero issue and the shades of grey in between.

Dude, see it!


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## Steve (Jul 19, 2008)

Batman Begins was a terrific comic book movie.  Dark Knight is just a terrific movie.  

I will not be surprised if Heath Ledger takes a posthumous oscar for Best Supporting Actor this year.  And Aaron Eckhart was terrific as Harvey Dent.  Oh, and Maggie Gyllenhaal was much better than Katie Holmes.  Katie Holmes' irritating habit of talking and smiling out of one side of her mouth makes her appear to suffer from Bell's Palsy or something.  It was distracting and unnattractive.


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## ppko (Jul 19, 2008)

stevebjj said:


> Batman Begins was a terrific comic book movie.  Dark Knight is just a terrific movie.
> 
> I will not be surprised if Heath Ledger takes a posthumous oscar for Best Supporting Actor this year.  And Aaron Eckhart was terrific as Harvey Dent.  Oh, and Maggie Gyllenhaal was much better than Katie Holmes.  Katie Holmes' irritating habit of talking and smiling out of one side of her mouth makes her appear to suffer from Bell's Palsy or something.  It was distracting and unnattractive.



Heath Ledger definately made the movie great that was the best comic book movie yet IMO


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## AceHBK (Jul 20, 2008)

Great movie.  Ledger damn near stole the show.......much more than just action flick, lots of psychology involved and that is what made it even more enjoyable.  For a 2 1/2hr movie it was spectcular and I could have sat thru another hour.  

Some of you guys are a lil too critical of Bale  (who to me does a great job)  I mean you guys are comparing Keaton who portrayed Batman at a later stage in life) to Bale who is showing you Batman from day one.  
Bale did a decent job as Bats and BW.  I can't get into the whole "duality" debate cause it ain't that deep to me....lol  
You guys are worse than us Harry Potter fans.  At least with Potter we can analyze more cause we have 7 novels.

I agree Ledger should at the least receive a oscar nomination for his portrayal.


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## stickarts (Jul 20, 2008)

I just saw it. I thought it was very good. Well done all round.


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2008)

It's set records for opening day and opening weekend sales, as well as IMAX and midnight showings.

But, Spider-Man 3 may still have sold more tickets its first weekend as those numbers aren't adjusted for inflation.


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## stickarts (Jul 20, 2008)

The threater I went to was packed, I had to go across town to another theater to get in!


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## Kreth (Jul 20, 2008)

I just saw this last night at the drive-in (with Hancock). It made for a good double-feature: the grittiness of Dark Knight, and a "super-hero" flick that breaks all the established rules.


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## AceHBK (Jul 20, 2008)

arnisador said:


> It's set records for opening day and opening weekend sales, as well as IMAX and midnight showings.
> 
> But, Spider-Man 3 may still have sold more tickets its first weekend as those numbers aren't adjusted for inflation.


 

The only thing I hate about the records thing is that it is never fair.  Like the Dark Knight beat out reigning champ Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith but then when you take a closer look you find out that DK opened in a lot more theatres than SW:ROTS.


yEAH imax IS SOLD OUT HERE FOR THE NEXT 2 DAYS!!!!
I had to go to regular theatre but I will see it a second time in IMAX for sure.


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2008)

We want to see it on IMAX too!


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## jks9199 (Jul 20, 2008)

A good Joker often steals the show from Batman.  After all, Batman is SERIOUS.  (Though I read a short story several years ago where Batman did some pretty wild things, like Fatman...  I gotta dig that book up, because I think there was also one, or it may be the same story, where someone tried to program Dick Grayson to believe he was the Batman!)

In fact, the crooks often steal the show...  They and Alfred tend to get the best lines, and most room to move around with the character...


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2008)

Alfred was well done by Michael Caine. A small role but it goes to show that ther are no small roles, only small actors.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2008)

*Christian Bale Released After Alleged Assault Arrest
*


> _Batman_'s Christian Bale was arrested in London Tuesday, following assault allegations reportedly made by his own mother and sister.
> 
> He was released from the precinct station later in the afternoon, and he is to return to a station in September, pending further inquiry, a police rep tells PEOPLE.
> 
> Bale, 34, allegedly lashed out at his mother Jenny, 61, and sister Sharon, 40, on Sunday at London's Dorchester hotel, where the actor was staying before Monday's U.K. premiere of _The Dark Knight_.


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## MA-Caver (Jul 22, 2008)

arnisador said:


> *Christian Bale Released After Alleged Assault Arrest
> *


*ahem* http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65771


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## shesulsa (Jul 24, 2008)

Wow. What a movie.  There are members of my famil that won't see it right away, of course. I think I'll even hold my youngest boy back and he's mature for his age.

An old friend of mine said he felt Ledger's portrayal of The Joker might have been inspired by some Charles Manson behaviors.  Thoughts, folks?


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## Cryozombie (Jul 24, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> An old friend of mine said he felt Ledger's portrayal of The Joker might have been inspired by some Charles Manson behaviors.  Thoughts, folks?



All I gotta say is that as "evil" as the joker was, I found myself sympathetic twords some of his motivations.  

*shrug*


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## arnisador (Jul 24, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> An old friend of mine said he felt Ledger's portrayal of The Joker might have been inspired by some Charles Manson behaviors.



Maybe. Reviewers have pointed to _A Clockwork Orange_ which rang true with me.


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## shesulsa (Jul 24, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Maybe. Reviewers have pointed to _A Clockwork Orange_ which rang true with me.


I can see both as being potential influences.  My, I must rent that again sometime.


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## Hawke (Jul 25, 2008)

The writers did an exceptional job to make the Joker an insanely brilliant criminal mind.  Nice and spooky as well.

Heath Ledger did an outstanding performance.  I can see why film critics were talking about an Oscar for him.


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## bowser666 (Jul 25, 2008)

Great movie,  I simpy loved it. Ledger did a great job.  Too bad he succumbed to the Hollywood lifestyle.  Thought he was smarter than that.


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## shesulsa (Jul 25, 2008)

bowser666 said:


> Great movie,  I simpy loved it. Ledger did a great job.  Too bad he succumbed to the Hollywood lifestyle.  Thought he was smarter than that.


He actually lived very humbly, according to the press. It's believed he was overmedicated.


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## Chitmunk (Aug 2, 2008)

Indeed he was overmedicated.  According to the official statements put out to CNN, and Yahoo news Mr. Ledger had been having sever nightmares that were negatively affecting his sleep, he was on both non-perscription, and perscription sleeping medications which were what did him in... he had also been going to therapy because his work to get into character did tax his mind to the point of near insanity, if not actual insanity.  He probably did do some study on Charles Manson but that is just speculation on my part.  As for his portrayal of the Joker my opinion is the performance was spot on.  The Joker is all about stirring the pot, going overboard for a good laugh.  Also his ability to show that the Joker was not only a psycho, but also has a brilliant mind was amazing.As for Mr. Bale's depiction of Batsy, I prefer his performance.  Maybe it is because I read the current comics, but these days Batman is the person and Bruce Wayne is the costume... it is not a dual personality, Bruce Wayne is an alter ego, a "wall" to hide behind.  Mr. Bale is not an outspoken person, but he did a good job hiding his voice as batman so there could be no voice matching to connect him to BW.The only thing I didn't like about The Dark Knight is that they killed off Two Face (or at least made it seem so).  Two Face is a major player and is still around in the Batman Story.  As for the depiction of Two Face, Awesome.To discuss Batman Begins, the pacing was nessecary to "delet" the previous movies from the viewers minds.  As a restart of the franchise it was needed to give the audience a feel for what that universe felt like to keep the universes seperate.  Make no mistake I love the Burton films, I even can tolerate Val Kilmer's performance (though I refuse to acknowledge the exsistence of any movie that people say George Clooney played batman... no... be quiet, it never existed ;^P), but as a current Batman Universe reader these last two movies were truer to the comics, but also gave it more of a realistic feel.  That's not to say it felt like it could happen next week, it is still placed in a comic book universe and needs to be recongnized as such.Overall loved both movies, and I fully agree that Mr. Ledger deserves posthumos recognition for is excellent work in this film.


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 2, 2008)

Finally saw it....quite possibly the greatest film ever made....IT WAS AWESOME!


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## arnisador (Aug 6, 2008)

We hope to see it on IMAX on Sat.!


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## matt.m (Aug 7, 2008)

OMG!  That movie rocked.  The only thing that bothers me is the following.  They left the end open for a "Return of the Joker." Sorry no one can be as dark as Ledger.  Just like no one could portray the Joker like Nicholson in the 89 film.

Also, it was too much of a "Should I be Batman or not."  For the love of God Bruce Wayne's total existence was to be Batman.  His fury and rage are unparalled.  Batman Begins and DarkKnight are how it had to be for Batman.  The P.T.S.D., the silent rage and demons, etc.  I mean I love the "Big Boy Scout-Superman." But geez, Batman is a dark, dark, dark, over the edge but barely on the right side of pure lunacy himself. 

I dug the movie, however in a lot of aspects it reminded me of "The Darkknight Returns." by Frank Miller.  The destruction of Wayne Industries etc.  Just as Batman Begins is much similiar to Frank Miller's "Batman Year One."

Batman is supposed to be dark, looming, frightening, ruthless, all the good stuff.  If he isn't then it just doesn't work.


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## Kacey (Aug 7, 2008)

Honestly?  I saw it on IMAX (which turned out to be an unnecessary expense) and I wasn't particularly impressed.  There were too many bits of story line that only those intimately familiar with all the movies - or possibly even the comic books - would get.  Having been a comic fan in the 80s and 90s, I caught the references, such as having the Scarecrow in the beginning - but I went with my neighbor, and had to explain it to her later.  I didn't like the way the movie ended.  I wasn't impressed with the characterization of Batman, nor of Jim Gordon, and I'm not sure about Harvey Dent, either.

Then there was the cinematography - I've never been particularly fond of the "circle the scene" method, and I felt it was overused in this movie.  I understood having the camera shake when the Joker was filming - but there were a few other times it happened as well, and I found it distracting.

Overall, I wish I'd waited for the DVD to come out.


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## matt.m (Aug 8, 2008)

There are a plethra of movies that are better than this film.  However, for a comic book film it was great.  This movie is getting the kind of hype and draw that the Keaton and Nicholson 89 film got.  That movie was a merchandise whore like star wars of the 70's trilogy.


celtic_crippler said:


> Finally saw it....quite possibly the greatest film ever made....IT WAS AWESOME!


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## arnisador (Aug 9, 2008)

We saw it again last night at the IMAX theatre in Indianapolis. It was good seeing it again, even aside from the IMAX effect (which, I agree with *Kacey*, was unnecessary). The battle scenes looked clearer to me and I was able to really appreciate how good Gary Oldman's performance was now that I wasn't as focused on Heath Ledger's.

Who will be the villain in number three? My son is hoping for Hush, possibly from this storyline, but I was thinking of Bane and his "The Man who broke the Bat" story arc.


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## shesulsa (Aug 10, 2008)

Gary Oldman has a talent for playing the silent-but-deadly type. Still waters run deep with that actor - I liked him in the HP movies as he gave an unwritten dimension to Sirius Black.

I need ta see it agin.


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## AceHBK (Aug 14, 2008)

Gary Oldman is a great actor and 1 of the few people I would like to sit down and talk with.

I liked the movie more for the storyline and the psychological thinking that motivated the plot.  It makes you think about human nature and all.

ALREADY people are talking about Johnny Depp as the Riddler and Julie Newmar (played Catwoman in the old 70's Batman tv show) said she would love to see Angelina Jolie play Catwoman.  

I think that no one should play the Joker.  The part should be left alone after Ledger's death.  I think the next Batman as well should be the last one.  You can only ride so high for so long before it gets to be a waste.

God forbid the people who want and ask to see "Killer Croc" in the next one.  God help us all.


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## tko4u (Sep 7, 2008)

Hands down the best batman of all time in my opinion. I loved bale, ledger, all the cast. Its a shame about ledger, he truly played a AWESOME criminal. Of course I was hooked the first time I saw the trailor! Cant wait for the next one


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## bowser666 (Sep 9, 2008)

I also agree , the movie was incredible and the entire cast was noteworthy.  All I can say is Angelina Jolie for Catwoman !!!!!   Rawr !!!


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## MA-Caver (Sep 9, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Gary Oldman has a talent for playing the silent-but-deadly type. Still waters run deep with that actor - I liked him in the HP movies as he gave an unwritten dimension to Sirius Black.
> 
> I need ta see it agin.


Oldman wasn't given enough screen time to really show what he could do with Sirius... either that or they cut quite a bit of his scenes out. 
Oldman is definitely one of the finest actors out there today.


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## arnisador (Sep 9, 2008)

bowser666 said:


> All I can say is Angelina Jolie for Catwoman !!!!!



I could see it! But I think someone who is a little less well-known would be better.


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## zDom (Sep 9, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Oldman wasn't given enough screen time to really show what he could do with Sirius... either that or they cut quite a bit of his scenes out.
> Oldman is definitely one of the finest actors out there today.



I agree. Loved his performance in "The Fifth Element" too.


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## MA-Caver (Sep 9, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I could see it! But I think someone who is a little less well-known would be better.


Agreed, using Joline is over kill... a BIG name to what might end up being a small movie. 
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000201/ Pfeiffer was good, Berry was embarrassing (or that costume of hers was). A lesser known might pull it off... she'd need to be a gymnast too I think.


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## Chitmunk (Oct 9, 2008)

I totally agree with MA-Caver, Though I have no clue what movie you are talking about where Holly Berry played Catwoman... shut up... no... never happened... (at least let me pretend okay?)  Though I totally agree that Angalina is very hot, and she does get in with that whole attitudy thief-like caracter in the tomb raider series, I am just not sure if she has the technical versitility that the other big name actors in the new bat franchise have brought to their roles.  Both Bale, and Ledger have put their lives into the roles they have played, and both were willing to go to the point where their lives were put in danger for their roles (in Bale's case it was a previous movie where he emaciated himself).  I mean neither of them are even americans, Bale is from Britan, and Ledger is from Australia yet they both played the roles of American comic icons outstandingly.  I just don't see Angelina being willing to put herself on the line for a role, not like those two anyway, and I think that might make a performance with her as Catwoman possibly a little unbelievable.  But then again when I first heard that Heath Ledger was going to play Joker I was a total skeptic and boy was I proven wrong in that case... But I personally believe that a no-name actress (again agreeing with MA-Caver about the gymnastics background) would make a smoother transition into the role and make it believable.


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## JBrainard (Oct 9, 2008)

zDom said:


> I agree. Loved his performance in "The Fifth Element" too.


 
Don't forget "The Professional."


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## elder999 (Oct 9, 2008)

JBrainard said:


> Don't forget "The Professional."


 

_*I love* these quiet little moments before the storm. It's like Beethoven. You don't know Beethoven? I'll play you some._


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## AceHBK (Oct 11, 2008)

Chitmunk said:


> But then again when I first heard that Heath Ledger was going to play Joker I was a total skeptic and boy was I proven wrong in that case....


 
You wasn't alone on that one brother.  There was a thread about who would play the Joker and many of us bashed Ledger.


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## arnisador (Oct 11, 2008)

It's still playing in teh second run theatres here...


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