# Reputation System Reset Pending...Dec 07



## Bob Hubbard

I'll be resetting the rep system in December.

The current ranking list will be archived and everyone set back to zero.

Some other minor changes will be implemented at that point to refine the system for a better balance for everyone.


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## terryl965

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'll be resetting the rep system in December.
> 
> The current ranking list will be archived and everyone set back to zero.
> 
> Some other minor changes will be implemented at that point to refine the system for a better balance for everyone.


 

Bob why are we doing this? I have worked hard over the Years to get mine. I guess I understand. You are the boss so I will have to start over. I can do it.Go Terry Go Terry


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## Andy Moynihan

That's OK.

I was awesome before and I'll still be awesome after


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## Sukerkin

Noooooooo!  Don't do it!  

Most of us can only craft posts worthy of positive reputation rarely and, similarly, most of us make our better and more profound posts early in our membership.

To wipe away the history of 'good things that have been said that met with public approval' ... totalitarian dictatorship I cry, where's my pitchfork .... ?


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## Makalakumu

Ah, go for it Bob.  Actually, from time to time, this should be a good thing...say every couple of years or so.  Think of it as a mass extinction event.  Clearing the playing field allows new things to evolve.

Who is going to be the new mammal?


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## Drac

terryl965 said:


> Bob why are we doing this? I have worked hard over the Years to get mine. I guess I understand. You are the boss so I will have to start over. I can do it.Go Terry Go Terry


 


Sukerkin said:


> Noooooooo! Don't do it!
> 
> Most of us can only craft posts worthy of positive reputation rarely and, similarly, most of us make our better and more profound posts early in our membership.


 
What they said...


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## Makalakumu

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'll be resetting the rep system in December.
> 
> The current ranking list will be archived and everyone set back to zero.
> 
> Some other minor changes will be implemented at that point to refine the system for a better balance for everyone.


 
Do you have some new super cool software for us?


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## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'll be resetting the rep system in December.
> 
> The current ranking list will be archived and everyone set back to zero.
> 
> Some other minor changes will be implemented at that point to refine the system for a better balance for everyone.


 
Why?


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## michaeledward

First, a moment of silence.

.

Then, 

artyon: artyon:

:high5:

oh, and mine will still be disabled, if that's still allowed.


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## Bob Hubbard

Xue Sheng said:


> Why?


Basically, because in a year or 2, the top 10 folks here will be able to with 1 shot jack up someones rep 10 stars, while the bottom 10 folks will -never- gain any, unless one of the "gawds" reps em.  Completely defeats the purpose of the system. I don't even use it anymore because I hit so hard.

It's a system thats supposed to be fun, yet hold some meaning towards poster-quality, yet in checking where rep points are being issued, it's really turned into "I disagree with you in he study so heres some neg points" and "yay you post a lot in chat, heres more points, yay another star, go stud go."

The other thing is, an occational reset of the system is good, and recommended.  It rebalances the field, and in truth, the cream will continue to rise back to the top.

The changes were announced some time back, but I got sidetracked with life and haven't had time to prep for it until now.  So, this is a couple week heads up.  

I'll be posting the revised scoreing system shortly so we can tweak it before it goes in. There's also some enhancements that should theoretically keep things better balanced for a long time to come.


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## Tames D

Where's my sword?


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## Blindside

Well, then, I offer myself as a sacrificial lamb.  Lets see how many dings it takes from Constellation class rep holder(s) to get me to a negative red star.  

Actually, I think this is tacit permission to just go nuts with the repping for the next two weeks. 

Lamont


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## Drac

Blindside said:


> Well, then, I offer myself as a sacrificial lamb. Lets see how many dings it takes from Constellation class rep holder(s) to get me to my initial green blip.
> 
> Actually, I think this is tacit permission to just go nuts with the repping for the next two weeks.
> 
> Lamont


 
Hey look ya just got another Star..


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## Bigshadow

Cool!


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## Kacey

Bob Hubbard said:


> Basically, because in a year or 2, the top 10 folks here will be able to with 1 shot jack up someones rep 10 stars, while the bottom 10 folks will -never- gain any, unless one of the "gawds" reps em.  Completely defeats the purpose of the system. I don't even use it anymore because I hit so hard.



I don't rep very often myself, for just that reason.  A reset sounds good to me.


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## bluemtn

The reset is fine with me.  Anyone that says that they worked so hard to get their current reps, well...  You know we still like ya!!  Remember!  The reps don't make the person.


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## Bob Hubbard

Blindside said:


> Well, then, I offer myself as a sacrificial lamb.  Lets see how many dings it takes from Constellation class rep holder(s) to get me to a negative red star.
> 
> Actually, I think this is tacit permission to just go nuts with the repping for the next two weeks.
> 
> Lamont


As an example, Kacey would have to neg you 21 times to put you into the red.
It would take Exile only 17-18 shots.

Either of them hitting anyone with less than 10 green would put the person into the red in 1 shot.


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## Blindside

Drac said:


> Hey look ya just got another Star..


 
Arghh, wrong way, think "red star."


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## crushing

Blindside said:


> Well, then, I offer myself as a sacrificial lamb. Lets see how many dings it takes from Constellation class rep holder(s) to get me to a negative red star.
> 
> *Actually, I think this is tacit permission to just go nuts with the repping for the next two weeks.*
> 
> Lamont


 
I was thinking that too!

It's too bad I used all of my available cleverness to get what little rep I've got now only to be thrown away, well that and the extreme kindness of not-so-strangers.


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## Bob Hubbard

I'm looking at a couple of options to recognize those who are the current high reppers.  

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=100


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## Brian R. VanCise

Bob is right that the system needs a little tweaking.  Besides those who are current high reppers do not worry with the way you post you will continue to be recognized as great posters. (of that I have no doubt)


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## theletch1

Blindside said:


> Arghh, wrong way, think "red star."


Red star?  What are you trying to do?  Bring back the old Soviet Union?


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## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Basically, because in a year or 2, the top 10 folks here will be able to with 1 shot jack up someones rep 10 stars, while the bottom 10 folks will -never- gain any, unless one of the "gawds" reps em. Completely defeats the purpose of the system. I don't even use it anymore because I hit so hard.
> 
> It's a system thats supposed to be fun, yet hold some meaning towards poster-quality, yet in checking where rep points are being issued, it's really turned into "I disagree with you in he study so heres some neg points" and "yay you post a lot in chat, heres more points, yay another star, go stud go."
> 
> The other thing is, an occational reset of the system is good, and recommended. It rebalances the field, and in truth, the cream will continue to rise back to the top.
> 
> The changes were announced some time back, but I got sidetracked with life and haven't had time to prep for it until now. So, this is a couple week heads up.
> 
> I'll be posting the revised scoreing system shortly so we can tweak it before it goes in. There's also some enhancements that should theoretically keep things better balanced for a long time to come.


 
Thanks, makes sense.

Coming form the Computer/Network world I was just wondering what the reason was.


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## Drac

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm looking at a couple of options to recognize those who are the current high reppers.
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=100


 
How about another Banner at the top right of the page that says High poster or something like that....


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## Xue Sheng

Drac said:


> How about another Banner at the top right of the page that says High poster or something like that....


 
I&#8217;m thinking variations on &#8220;Lord high omnipotent ruler of all I survey&#8221; or something like that. 

Of course that specific title would be reserved for Bob and terry. :uhyeah:


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## Drac

Xue Sheng said:


> Im thinking variations on Lord high omnipotent ruler of all I survey or something like that.


 
Your killing me LOL..



Xue Sheng said:


> Of course that specific title would be reserved for Bob and terry. :uhyeah:


 
True...


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## terryl965

Xue Sheng said:


> Im thinking variations on Lord high omnipotent ruler of all I survey or something like that.
> 
> Of course that specific title would be reserved for Bob and terry. :uhyeah:


 

Thank you> What I want Bob to do is make my user title say *Ultimate Post Whore Extreme*, now that would be fun.


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## Drac

terryl965 said:


> Thank you> What I want Bob to do is make my user title say *Ultimate Post Whore Extreme*


 
It quite fitting and you deserve it..


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## Xue Sheng

terryl965 said:


> Thank you> What I want Bob to do is make my user title say *Ultimate Post Whore Extreme*, now that would be fun.


 
Although it is not my call, if it were up to me it would most certainly be your title :asian:



Drac said:


> It quite fitting and you deserve it..


 
Yes, yes he does


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## Lisa

Sounds good Bob.


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## Andy Moynihan

Andy needs no special title, for he is Andy, who is awesome.


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## terryl965

Thank you all for the wonderful custom title. It is sooooo awesome.


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## bluemtn

Andy Moynihan said:


> Andy needs no special title, for he is Andy, who is awesome.


 

How about Soggy Samich Extraordinar'?


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## ArmorOfGod

Drac said:


> How about another Banner at the top right of the page that says High poster or something like that....


 
Good idea.
Also, get rid of the "Martial Talk Fan" banner to make room for the High Poster banner.

AoG


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## grydth

terryl965 said:


> Thank you> What I want Bob to do is make my user title say *Ultimate Post Whore Extreme*, now that would be fun.



Be careful what you wish for..... some of these folks seem rather talented with titles and graphics....

As to the change - I just come here to debate and learn. Being allowed in the house is enough for me.


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## newGuy12

*Ahhh!*

I have been given some vote of confidence, some token that I have found favour with this group, this community, and now it will be trashed!

Well, that is as it will be, but I post this here for posterity.  If I cannot get this favour again, let everyone look at this screenshot so that they will know that I at one time had it!!!







Anyway, this is one very nice online community here, with very knowledgeable people.  It is a good resource and is a good pastime to read these posts.  That is the main thing.

I guess I'll just have to get ready to come out swinging when we commence again!  Hopefully I have enough BS left in me for that!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


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## Tames D

And just when my plan was about to come together. 4 stars and then rest on my laurels...


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## stickarts

The ranking system or rep system were never factors for me in joining or staying so its all good with me. Thanks for the heads up on upcoming changes.


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## Drac

I have always enjoys the rep system and will morn its passing..It was an indicator that someone was reading your posts and agreed with your way of thinking..


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## MA-Caver

QUI-GON said:


> And just when my plan was about to come together. 4 stars and then rest on my laurels...


Well you got your four stars so you can now Rest. 

What I'm going to miss about the rep system is reading the supportive comments by those who repped me. They made me feel good about myself and about what I've contributed to this *GREAT AND AWESOME FORUM!
​*


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## Rich Parsons

Bob and Staff,

I support the change in the system and the reset. 

I think a rset ever now and again for with any system over time there will be a tendancy to get to the extremes with those who play the most or longest having an unfair advantage over people who are just starting out. 

I think we have the post banners such as 500 posts and 100 posts and 15000 posts that some of us have that separate the long timers and heavy posters from the beginners to this site. 

Someone brought to my attention when they did a search to find out how to contact me that the reputation showed up on the search. i.e. Rich Parsons has a reputation beyond repute. I was embarrassed by this. While I may have said lots of good things, I know I have also had my share of negative interactions as well.  But I did not complain, I just grunted and tried to move on. 

I also like the date of the reset.


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## Jade Tigress

Works for me.


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## Bob Hubbard

Just a clarification.

It's not going away, it's being reset and tweaked for better balance.


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## bydand

I think it is actually a good idea.  Everybody that has a wicked amout of rep will return to the top.  I know that with even with a "lowly" 6 stars I have been more reserved in giving both positive and neg rep just because there are a lot of post that are praise worthy and I would like to acknowledge the post, but is it really as good as an awesome post that makes me think and explore my own situation (yes I have seen plenty of them here.) Several times I have wished for an option of giving 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 of the total and being able to reserve the 5 or 600 points for the really great posts.  I've been thinking of just turning them off anyway because while they mean a lot to me, it isn't about points or even people agreeing all the time with me.  I like just knowing somebody someplace got something from an opinion or statement I made.


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## Bob Hubbard

I've posted the planned revamp for staff review, and will be posting it here in a day or so. 

I'll be honest, some of the changes are probably going to annoy a few folks, but they will cut down on alot of the past abuses and complaints and return it to what it as intended to be, a hint at quality posters.  In theory, we won't have to reset it again after this reset, for at least 5 more years, lol! 

One of the biggest changes is a cap on power.  Right now, the newb hits for 5 points while some of the high scorers hit for 2,000 or so.  It's like Superman slapping you on the back...which is never good, just ask Jimmy. lol.

Some forums will not allow repping, and old dead posts also will no longer be repible.  One of the abuses we saw were people going to random dead threads and suddenly repping folks who hadn't been here in years, then hitting their target with rep. 


I've suped up the rep listings to show the last 50 in your CP now, so everyone can see a bit more.


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## dubljay

Will we still have the option of opting out of having our rep scores shown?


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## Bob Hubbard

Supporting members will.


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## Xue Sheng

Heywait a minute. Does this mean I loose my rank too????

How can I teach Martial Art Talk style if I loose my rank :uhyeah:

You are coming VERY close to offending my family AND the Shaolin temple:soapbox:

:uhyeah:

Sorry, couldn't resist any longer


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## Bob Hubbard

naw.   just the green dots, yellow stars n purple clovers. 

all rank stays in effect.....until I can figure out how to digitize fabreeze.  lol


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## Carol

Bob Hubbard said:


> naw.   just the green dots, yellow stars n purple clovers.




...always after me lucky charms


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## Xue Sheng

Carol Kaur said:


> ...always after me lucky charms


 
you beat me to it


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## kidswarrior

newGuy12 said:


> *Ahhh!*
> 
> I have been given some vote of confidence, some token that I have found favour with this group, this community, and now it will be trashed!
> 
> Well, that is as it will be, but I post this here for posterity.  If I cannot get this favour again, let everyone look at this screenshot so that they will know that I at one time had it!!!



This sounds so medieval *NG*, as in a mortally wounded knight's last earthly  communication. Oh, but wait, most of them couldn't write.


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## newGuy12

kidswarrior said:


> This sounds so medieval *NG*, as in a mortally wounded knight's last earthly  communication.



That's right!  And let it never be forgotten that before "The Great Reputation Reform", the House of NewGuy was awarded two stars!







Look at them!  Glorious and yellow!  Defining eight directions, like the Universal Pattern of Motion does!


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## Drac

Xue Sheng said:


> You are coming VERY close to offending my family AND the Shaolin temple:soapbox:
> 
> :uhyeah:


 
I knew it would come to this...


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## Xue Sheng

Drac said:


> I knew it would come to this...


 

You TOO are coming VERY close to offending my family AND the Shaolin temple:soapbox:


:uhyeah:


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## CoryKS

Y'know what might be fun?  A race to the bottom!  I propose that from now until Dec. 7, we substitute neg reps for positive and vice versa.  Agree with a post?  Neg rep.  Take offense?  Give 'em a positive.  Let's see how fast our painstaking accrual of stars can wither away.  I predict that Exile, even with his Brewster's Millions of stars, would still win.  He'd probably have like twenty red stars before I hit bottom.  

Anyone?


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## newGuy12

CoryKS said:


> Y'know what might be fun?  A race to the bottom!  I propose that from now until Dec. 7, we substitute neg reps for positive and vice versa.  Agree with a post?  Neg rep.  Take offense?  Give 'em a positive.  Let's see how fast our painstaking accrual of stars can wither away.  I predict that Exile, even with his Brewster's Millions of stars, would still win.  He'd probably have like twenty red stars before I hit bottom.
> 
> Anyone?




HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Yes, and you just bought yourself a big, fat Neg-Rep, Mister!!!

:ultracool


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## MA-Caver

Xue Sheng said:


> You are coming VERY close to offending my family AND the Shaolin temple:soapbox:


:lfao:


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## Drac

Xue Sheng said:


> You TOO are coming VERY close to offending my family AND the Shaolin temple:soapbox:
> 
> 
> :uhyeah:


 
Been there before...I'm safe in my crypt-vampfeed- so you canna touch me...


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## Bigshadow

Damn, I am two short....


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## Bob Hubbard

You got a week or 2.... lol!


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## Flying Crane

How about just putting a cap on the rep strength that someone can build, as well as a cap on the number of stars you can earn?  that way, you can hit that top, sort of get that recognition for being a positive member, but it doesn't just keep building and building outrageously.


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## theletch1

I didn't go back and re-read the entire thread but I think I remember reading that there will be a cap on rep strength.


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## Drac

Bob Hubbard said:


> You got a week or 2.... lol!


 
Hark the seer speaks...


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## CuongNhuka

CoryKS said:


> Y'know what might be fun? A race to the bottom! I propose that from now until Dec. 7, we substitute neg reps for positive and vice versa. Agree with a post? Neg rep. Take offense? Give 'em a positive. Let's see how fast our painstaking accrual of stars can wither away. I predict that Exile, even with his Brewster's Millions of stars, would still win. He'd probably have like twenty red stars before I hit bottom.
> 
> Anyone?


 
Seriously want to do that? Cause I've always prided myself that I'm (atleast somewhat) well liked... should I start insulting you so I can get some stars?

Anyways, Bob, are accepting any input? Like, making it mandatory that negitive rep comes with a name? Cause it's really irritating to just get that random hate mail.


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## Xue Sheng

CuongNhuka said:


> Anyways, Bob, are accepting any input? Like, making it mandatory that negitive rep comes with a name? Cause it's really irritating to just get that random hate mail.


 
YES!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





That would certainly cut down on the abuse of the system. There are those that would not do it if they knew they had to be identified./


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## bydand

I agree with the name for the neg reps.  
I ALWAYS put my name on a neg if I give it out.  I feel if I am going to do that to a persons rep, I should at least have the common decency to sign it.


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## Bob Hubbard

Some things a limitations of the software, but all suggestions are welcome.


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## Tames D

Bob Hubbard said:


> Some things a limitations of the software, but all suggestions are welcome.


 
How about gold sai's instead of stars?


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## CoryKS

CuongNhuka said:


> Seriously want to do that? Cause I've always prided myself that I'm (atleast somewhat) well liked... should I start insulting you so I can get some stars?
> 
> Anyways, Bob, are accepting any input? Like, making it mandatory that negitive rep comes with a name? Cause it's really irritating to just get that random hate mail.


 
I say go for it.  Shoot, Robert let fly w/ the negs like 5 seconds after I mentioned it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I figure since it's getting reset anyway we might as well have a rep war.  And just think what the newbies will say when they come in here and all the post leaders are covered in blood!


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## kidswarrior

QUI-GON said:


> How about gold sai's instead of stars?


Not bad *Q-G*, but if we're going along those lines, I'd have to vote for the CMA double axes.


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## newGuy12

kidswarrior said:


> Not bad *Q-G*, but if we're going along those lines, I'd have to vote for the CMA double axes.



Or just fists!:uhyeah:


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## Makalakumu

Severed heads?


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## Andrew Green

Soke certificates! 

or maybe brown noses! :lol:


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## theletch1

Andrew Green said:


> Soke certificates!
> 
> or maybe *brown noses*! :lol:


I love it!:lfao:


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## Drac

Andrew Green said:


> Soke certificates!


 
You can buy those on e-Bay



Andrew Green said:


> or maybe brown noses! :lol:


 
Come to where I work and help yourself, we have MORE than our share..


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## terryl965

Andrew Green said:


> Soke certificates!
> 
> or maybe brown noses! :lol:


 
Only you Andrew. Nice going


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## Andy Moynihan

Naw, it's gotta be bayonets.

Or maybe bunnies.


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## terryl965

Andy Moynihan said:


> Naw, it's gotta be bayonets.
> 
> Or maybe bunnies.


 

Bunnies that is right, we forgot about the bunnies.


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## Bob Hubbard

I sell Soke Certificates for $40.  Just as valid as most out there.


Hmm....Bunnies on Bayonettes......


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## Rich Parsons

Can I have mine be vorpal Bunnies?  :lol:


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## The Game

Reset to Zero. Make them little Yin Yangs that grow into bigger YinYangs that become rotating death cubes.

Or do swords.

Or do diamonds.

But no clovers.


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## Rich Parsons

On a serious note, is the software capable of subtracting the negative one gives to another? Or some fraction of the cost like half? 

Just a random though.


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## LawDog

Or cute little hooters girls.  :xtrmshock


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## Carol

LawDog said:


> Or cute little hooters girls.  :xtrmshock





You shush.


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## LawDog

:vu:


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## Xue Sheng

Andy Moynihan said:


> Naw, it's gotta be bayonets.
> 
> Or maybe bunnies.


 
Bunnies...... hmmm.... bunnies.... with Great big Fangs the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodents you ever set eyes on! rabbits with a vicious streak a mile wide! killers! Rabbits of Caerbannog


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## The Game

Little Hooters Girl
http://www.bobrivers.com/player/lyrics.asp?SongID=475


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## thardey

On a serious note, 

I know that the more reps you have, the more power you have to rep, and thus the need for the reset.

But, you also get more power to rep based on your post count, right? How will that be reset?


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## LawDog

The post count is being reset?


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## Bob Hubbard

No, post count will sty the same.

===

The following settings are planned for the reset.
In addition the following limitations will be put into effect:

* Rep power will be capped at a maximum of 50 points. Once you hit that level, while your own score will continue to increase, your ability to influence others will top out.

* Posts older than 90 days will not be repible.

* Posts in locked threads will not be repible.

* Some forums will not be repible. These include the staff areas, and some of the non-art forums like the B&G.

* Art-Specific forums will allow for a higher rep-factor than non-art forums. Karate might be worth 100% while the Study might be worth 75% and the LockerRoom only 25%. These values haven't been decided yet.

* Rep values will be the same regardless of positive or negative. Previously NegRep was 1/2 PosRep




Settings

Number of Reputation Ratings to Display : 50
Controls how many ratings to display in the user's control panel.


Number of Reputation Given comments to display : 50
The maximum number of Reputation Given Comments to display in the user cp.    


Register Date Factor : 365
For every X number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Post Count Factor : 1,000
For every X number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Reputation Point Factor : 1,000
For every X points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Minimum Post Count : 10
How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?


Minimum Reputation Count : 10
How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?


Daily Reputation Clicks Limit : 40
How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period? Administrators are exempt from this limit.


Reputation User Spread : 10
How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again? Administrators are exempt from this limit.


Extended Reputation Dark Green Count : 10
The maximum number of dark green pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Dark Green Value : 100
The value of each dark green pip in the extended reputation display.


Extended Reputation Light Green Count : 10
The maximum number of light green pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Light Green Value : 500
The value of each light green pip in the extended reputation display.


Extended Reputation Golden Count : 10
The maximum number of golden pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Gold Value : 1,000
The value of each golden pip in the extended reputation display.


Reputation Delete Time (Seconds) : 600
Time Limit in which users can delete their own reputation comments


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## bydand

Sounds fair.  Almost like another non-MA forum I go to sometimes.


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## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> No, post count will sty the same.
> 
> ===
> 
> The following settings are planned for the reset.
> In addition the following limitations will be put into effect:
> 
> * Rep power will be capped at a maximum of 50 points. Once you hit that level, while your own score will continue to increase, your ability to influence others will top out.
> 
> * Posts older than 90 days will not be repible.
> 
> * Posts in locked threads will not be repible.
> 
> * Some forums will not be repible. These include the staff areas, and some of the non-art forums like the B&G.
> 
> * Art-Specific forums will allow for a higher rep-factor than non-art forums. Karate might be worth 100% while the Study might be worth 75% and the LockerRoom only 25%. These values haven't been decided yet.
> 
> * Rep values will be the same regardless of positive or negative. Previously NegRep was 1/2 PosRep
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Settings
> 
> Number of Reputation Ratings to Display : 50
> Controls how many ratings to display in the user's control panel.
> 
> 
> Number of Reputation Given comments to display : 50
> The maximum number of Reputation Given Comments to display in the user cp.
> 
> 
> Register Date Factor : 365
> For every X number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
> 
> 
> Post Count Factor : 1,000
> For every X number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
> 
> 
> Reputation Point Factor : 1,000
> For every X points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.
> 
> 
> Minimum Post Count : 10
> How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
> 
> 
> Minimum Reputation Count : 10
> How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?
> 
> 
> Daily Reputation Clicks Limit : 40
> How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period? Administrators are exempt from this limit.
> 
> 
> Reputation User Spread : 10
> How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again? Administrators are exempt from this limit.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Dark Green Count : 10
> The maximum number of dark green pips to display before moving onto the next level.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Dark Green Value : 100
> The value of each dark green pip in the extended reputation display.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Light Green Count : 10
> The maximum number of light green pips to display before moving onto the next level.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Light Green Value : 500
> The value of each light green pip in the extended reputation display.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Golden Count : 10
> The maximum number of golden pips to display before moving onto the next level.
> 
> 
> Extended Reputation Gold Value : 1,000
> The value of each golden pip in the extended reputation display.
> 
> 
> Reputation Delete Time (Seconds) : 600
> Time Limit in which users can delete their own reputation comments




Thank you for the details.

Based upon the above I would start out with 18 points of Reputation power. This is based upon the 12,xxx posts for 12 points and the 6+ years I have been a member. I think this is fair.


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> Daily Reputation Clicks Limit : 40
> How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period? Administrators are exempt from this limit.
> 
> 
> Reputation User Spread : 10
> How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again? Administrators are exempt from this limit.



So you can rep someone 4x/day?



Rich Parsons said:


> Based upon the above I would start out with 18 points of Reputation power. This is based upon the 12,xxx posts for 12 points and the 6+ years I have been a member. I think this is fair.



Hmmmm, Kaith and I would have...30 and 29?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

The system doesn't restrict admins, however any admin found abusing this will be fired.  All Staff have to play by the same rules as everyone else.


----------



## Andrew Green

arnisador said:


> So you can rep someone 4x/day?



And more!

We could manually edit you too any amount we like if we really wanted too, as well as pretty much anything else the site has about you, that's what admin means 


Of course as Uncle Ben says, "With great power comes great...."  hmm... can't remember what it was, guess I'd best go mess with peoples titles and avatars... :lol:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

*immediately checks his stuff*


----------



## Andrew Green

Bob Hubbard said:


> *immediately checks his stuff*



Nah, that would be too easy, it's more fun to sneak a little conditional in there, so that anyone except the user in question sees the "changes" but the user sees everything as they left it


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> The system doesn't restrict admins





Andrew Green said:


> We could manually edit you too any amount we like if we really wanted too, as well as pretty much anything else the site has about you, that's what admin means



Yes, I remember! What I meant was that it looks like _every _user will be able to rep me 4x/day under the new system--40 clicks per day, 10 user minimum wait means User X can rep User Y four times per day (provided that User Y makes sufficiently many posts). That's what I wanted to verify--is that so?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

pretty much.  As before though, if you suspect abuse, let us know and we'll look into it.   This revamp will eliminate many of the tricks a few of the worse offenders used to mask their actions though, making it more challenging to them.


----------



## Jai

I like the new system, but I'm here to chat and learn with other MAers and not so much for a rep on a internet site. Still, good job with the new system, should make it more fair from what I've read. :bow:


----------



## MBuzzy

This may be a dumb question/comment, but the majority of people's reps won't count for anything for a while, correct?  You have to have at least 1,000 posts to get 1 point of repping power, OR 1 year of time to get 1 point of repping power.  Meaning only a few users (those with some combination of years and posts, equalling them to 10 rep points) will even be able to GIVE rep.  

And since this is a reset across the boards, everyone goes back to 0 rep AND 0 repping power (except those with either over a year or over 1000 posts, and only those with over 10 repping power will be able to affect others), so most people won't have enough repping power to alter others...seems to me that one one's rep will count unless they get hit by one of the early heavy hitters.

Is this right or am I missing something?


----------



## shesulsa

Bob Hubbard said:


> The system doesn't restrict admins, however any admin found abusing this will be fired.  All Staff have to play by the same rules as everyone else.


Could you ... maybe ... give us one day unrestricted and unpunished before the switch? Just for fun?


----------



## CuongNhuka

I'd like to point this out, while I'm thinking about it. When this goes into effect, I'll have a rep power of 3 (how sad), Exile (our current undisputed heavy weight rep God) will be 7, Terry (our current 'Martial Talk Post Whore Extreme') will be 23, I believe. 
I'd also like to mention to Bob (who will have rep power 30) that I love his great martial arts forum, and simply ador his work (LOL)


----------



## Kacey

MBuzzy said:


> This may be a dumb question/comment, but the majority of people's reps won't count for anything for a while, correct?  You have to have at least 1,000 posts to get 1 point of repping power, OR 1 year of time to get 1 point of repping power.  Meaning only a few users (those with some combination of years and posts, equalling them to 10 rep points) will even be able to GIVE rep.
> 
> And since this is a reset across the boards, everyone goes back to 0 rep AND 0 repping power (except those with either over a year or over 1000 posts, and only those with over 10 repping power will be able to affect others), so most people won't have enough repping power to alter others...seems to me that one one's rep will count unless they get hit by one of the early heavy hitters.
> 
> Is this right or am I missing something?



That's kind of the point - when I first signed up, it took me months and months to get my first star; now, I can get 1/4 or even 1/2 way there if one of several people reps me.  I hesitate to give rep unless I really mean it, because I pack quite a wallop - something like 145 points - so I have to really like something to rep it, because it has such an effect, and while plenty of things are worth 10 or 15 points, 145 is quite a statement.  With the reset I'll drop to 12 (if I'm figuring it right - I don't hit my 2nd year until January, then it'll be 13), which means I'll go back to repping much more freely than I've been doing - which I'd prefer to what I've been doing.

It also mean, at least to me, that earned rep will mean something more than it does now - because it will be given more freely, I think - both because people will have lower points to give (see above) and because the 10 rep/day limit is being raised to 40... which eliminates a lot of the issues around not being able to rep someone because you've hit your limit for the day (at least not as easily), which has happened to me in the past.


----------



## ArmorOfGod

newGuy12 said:


> That's right! And let it never be forgotten that before "The Great Reputation Reform", the House of NewGuy was awarded two stars!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at them! Glorious and yellow! Defining eight directions, like the Universal Pattern of Motion does!


 
I never got my 2nd star.
:-(

AoG


----------



## Kacey

ArmorOfGod said:


> I never got my 2nd star.
> :-(
> 
> AoG



I tried... maybe someone else will kick you over the top before next week?


----------



## 14 Kempo

ArmorOfGod said:


> I never got my 2nd star.
> :-(
> 
> AoG


Yeah, I got close to three, but just wasn't meant to be. I don't have much power, but I gave you what I had.


----------



## ArmorOfGod

lol.

Thanks everyone!

AoG


----------



## Bob Hubbard

MBuzzy said:


> This may be a dumb question/comment, but the majority of people's reps won't count for anything for a while, correct?  You have to have at least 1,000 posts to get 1 point of repping power, OR 1 year of time to get 1 point of repping power.  Meaning only a few users (those with some combination of years and posts, equalling them to 10 rep points) will even be able to GIVE rep.
> 
> And since this is a reset across the boards, everyone goes back to 0 rep AND 0 repping power (except those with either over a year or over 1000 posts, and only those with over 10 repping power will be able to affect others), so most people won't have enough repping power to alter others...seems to me that one one's rep will count unless they get hit by one of the early heavy hitters.
> 
> Is this right or am I missing something?



Everyone will start out with 10 rep points.

Rep power will be zero for those with less than 10 posts, or who have a negative rep.

Rep power for those with more than 10 posts will start somewhere around 5-10 points + modifiers as indicated.



shesulsa said:


> Could you ... maybe ... give us one day unrestricted and unpunished before the switch? Just for fun?



Where's the fun in that?  lol


----------



## kidswarrior

CuongNhuka said:


> I'd like to point this out, while I'm thinking about it. When this goes into effect, I'll have a rep power of 3 (how sad), Exile (our current undisputed heavy weight rep God) will be 7, Terry (our current 'Martial Talk Post Whore Extreme') will be 23, I believe.
> I'd also like to mention to Bob (who will have rep power 30) that I love his great martial arts forum, and simply ador his work (LOL)


As near as I can tell using the PEMDAS method, my rep power will be between zero and infinity. I have a scientific calculator round here someplace...let's see, well, can't seem to find it right now but no matter, don't know how to use it anyway. Guess I'll have to wait and see how much 'power' I have. Maybe if I keep increasing my number of Hindu push ups it'll make a difference? Or, I could focus on perfecting my low kicks, keep striving for that shadowless perfection.... Yeah, think I've got a game plan :erg:


----------



## shesulsa

Bob Hubbard said:


> Where's the fun in that?  lol


Have you no imagination?  Just gimme a shot!!  C'mon!!!  Give the admins a day unpunished - a free-for-all.  PLEAAZZZZE?



kidswarrior said:


> As near as I can tell using the PEMDAS method, my rep power will be between zero and infinity. I have a scientific calculator round here someplace...let's see, well, can't seem to find it right now but no matter, don't know how to use it anyway. Guess I'll have to wait and see how much 'power' I have. Maybe if I keep increasing my number of Hindu push ups it'll make a difference? Or, I could focus on perfecting my low kicks, keep striving for that shadowless perfection.... Yeah, think I've got a game plan :erg:


Hey, thanks for the nudge to number 14.


----------



## MBuzzy

Kacey said:


> That's kind of the point - when I first signed up, it took me months and months to get my first star; now, I can get 1/4 or even 1/2 way there if one of several people reps me. I hesitate to give rep unless I really mean it, because I pack quite a wallop - something like 145 points - so I have to really like something to rep it, because it has such an effect, and while plenty of things are worth 10 or 15 points, 145 is quite a statement. With the reset I'll drop to 12 (if I'm figuring it right - I don't hit my 2nd year until January, then it'll be 13), which means I'll go back to repping much more freely than I've been doing - which I'd prefer to what I've been doing.
> 
> It also mean, at least to me, that earned rep will mean something more than it does now - because it will be given more freely, I think - both because people will have lower points to give (see above) and because the 10 rep/day limit is being raised to 40... which eliminates a lot of the issues around not being able to rep someone because you've hit your limit for the day (at least not as easily), which has happened to me in the past.


 
That's true, just seems like, by my math that the majority of users won't have the ability to influence someone else's rep for quite a while.  Since you need 10 reps before your rep hits count on others, most people won't be able to influence others' reps.....BUT, since everyone is starting off with 10, that answers my question.  Just seemed to me that it would take a really long time for people to get enough rep.  I get it now.    THANKS!


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Most of the active folks will start out with some decent kick, but it'll take a while to start building pages of stars again, and everyone's power will cap at 50 points (compared to no limit and folks heading towards 2,000 now)


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Most of the active folks will start out with some decent kick, but it'll take a while to start building pages of stars again, and everyone's power will cap at 50 points (compared to no limit and folks heading towards 2,000 now)


 

Of course you realize you will eventually end up with a situation where everyone will have 50 points from the old timers on MT to the short timers and the only ones with less will be newbees which begs the question; 

Whats the point of having a rep system at all?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I think to give me headaches, lol


----------



## arnisador

Even after the system pegs the meter, it still serves to let people say "good post" and there's some benefit to that.



Xue Sheng said:


> Whats the point of having a rep system at all?





Bob Hubbard said:


> I think to give me headaches, lol



Plus, it gives Kaith and me something to talk about over pizza after we've finished lamenting the number of crazies we run into in the martial arts business.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> I think to give me headaches, lol


 
From an ex-Web admin to a web admin.... I do believe I understand :asian:


----------



## ChingChuan

But why has the whole system to be resetted? 

I mean, as I don't post a lot and my posts hardly stand out on this HUGE forum, I'm proud of every reputation point I receive (not the individual points but the comments - only now I realize that the amount of those green 'blips' in my user CP isn't the amount of points) and now they are going to disappear . 

However, I do understand that it's probably the best thing to do, but I still think it's a pity.


----------



## morph4me

I think of it as putting on a white belt again, it's a good thing to do from time to time. I takes nothing away from what you've already achieved.


----------



## shesulsa

Xue Sheng said:


> Whats the point of having a rep system at all?



To give people something to argue and gripe about ... you know ... instead of global warning, abortion, seed loans in Africa, decay of democracy and civil liberties in America, voting, dirty oceans and waning oceanic species, the constant dwindling of the rainforests, global economics and product safety, clean drinking water, useless wars in the middle east, the anti-christ, glass ceilings, population control, stem cell research, human cloning and future rights of future clones, the impact of space travel on the environment, socioeconomic impact of teen parents, what's in your boogers and why you shouldn't eat them, the morality of the Body Worlds exhibits, the impact of the loss of TMAs on social and psychological development on the world as a whole, avoiding the need for prosthetic joints and lipid control medications, the future of the Bujinkan, Hapkido, TKD in the western world, the splitoff of jiujutsu from judo, why the Gracies studied TMAs and their followers scoff them, flies, butterflies, moths, cockroaches, the rampant rodent issue on the east coast, destruction of the reptilian populations, feet problems with martial artists ....

Reputation appears to have a similar quality to money or sex - if you have a lot of it you don't really think about it but try to dish it out once in a while and find reasons to argue about it. If you don't have a lot of it it's easy to complain about and find reasons to argue about it.  If you don't have any, it's easy to covet and find ways to beg for it, steal it and find reasons to argue about it.  But whether we like it or not, we all have to deal with the fact that it's out there.  If it weren't, there would still be a general, underlying system of reputation.

Truth = Perspective​


----------



## Bob Hubbard

ChingChuan said:


> But why has the whole system to be resetted?
> 
> I mean, as I don't post a lot and my posts hardly stand out on this HUGE forum, I'm proud of every reputation point I receive (not the individual points but the comments - only now I realize that the amount of those green 'blips' in my user CP isn't the amount of points) and now they are going to disappear .
> 
> However, I do understand that it's probably the best thing to do, but I still think it's a pity.


Look at it this way.   It's inflation run wild, and to fix it, we're switching to a new currency, and leveling the playing field.  We're also putting in new restrictions to keep inflation at bay for the long haul.


----------



## Bigshadow

Let's just let our usernames be our reputation...


----------



## Tames D

Bob Hubbard said:


> Look at it this way. It's inflation run wild, and to fix it, we're switching to a new currency, and leveling the playing field. We're also putting in new restrictions to keep inflation at bay for the long haul.


 
Shouldn't the post count be re-set to zero? When new members come on board and see someone with 10,000 posts and only 3 green squares, they won't know the system has been changed and that this guy/gal use to have 11 gold stars. They will think this guy/gal with 10,000 posts has a lousy reputation.


----------



## Kacey

QUI-GON said:


> Shouldn't the post count be re-set to zero? When new members come on board and see someone with 10,000 posts and only 3 green squares, they won't know the system has been changed and that this guy use to have 11 gold stars. They will think this guy with 10,000 posts has a lousy reputation.



I don't see a real problem there.  The pips will be relative to each other throughout the board - someone coming new may just as easily think that the rep system was newly begun, rather than newly reset.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Only way to reset post count would be to make all forums not count. It's an all or none thing. 

But, I can set it so that staff areas, and non-art forums aren't counted....would kill the points from the last person thread though, lol.


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> would kill the points from the last person thread though




Heh, that'd decrease some people's rep. power!

(Hey, stop looking at me!)


----------



## theletch1

We did some spring cleaning a few years back and folks lost hundreds of posts on their count.  You've never heard such hell raising in all your life...well, except for the re-setting of the rep points, that is.  I'd rather have my rep reset than my post count.  Rep is just a rough rule of what others thought of your posts.  The post count is actually a flag of how much time you put in on the board regardless of what others think.  The best way to get your rep back up after the re-set is to post often and make them quality posts.  Fluff posts are great for chit chatting but the art specific forums will carry more weight.  Everyone is here because they are martial artists and were looking for a place to discuss those arts.  Spend more time posting in the arts forums with good, solid posts and the chance that others will add to your positive rep increases.


----------



## Sukerkin

Like I said earlier, that kind of philosophy is alright in theory until you realise that those of us who acquired a fair amount of rep in shortish order (and I count myself in that number) did so by making considered and structured posts that laid out our opinions to those who'd not heard them before.

Take that rep away and I, for one, will never gain it back for I shall not make those insightful (in others eyes) posts again.  So, in the sight of new members joining up, I shall be a chap with a thousand odd posts who never said anything worthwhile - so how did *he* ever get to be a Mentor?

That saddens me - there's a Shao-Lin Temple insult in there somewhere I'm sure.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Interesting point.

Maybe the solution is to wait 1 month before locking out older posts from reping to allow people a chance to reacknowledge them?


----------



## MA-Caver

Sukerkin said:


> Like I said earlier, that kind of philosophy is alright in theory until you realise that those of us who acquired a fair amount of rep in shortish order (and I count myself in that number) did so by making considered and structured posts that laid out our opinions to those who'd not heard them before.
> 
> Take that rep away and I, for one, will never gain it back for I shall not make those insightful (in others eyes) posts again.  So, in the sight of new members joining up, I shall be a chap with a thousand odd posts who never said anything worthwhile - so how did *he* ever get to be a Mentor?
> 
> That saddens me - there's a Shao-Lin Temple insult in there somewhere I'm sure.



On this I agree. While I'm known more for my sense of humor and been repped accordingly  I've alsobeen honored :asian: with rep-points for my own expressed opinion(s) on serious matters regarding our world and the arts that we love so much. I too would hate to see that go away.


----------



## terryl965

I look at it like this I was never like in the first place my writing skills sucks and I have been able to stay here long enough to be here. I will alwys be here just liketraining people no matter what other school say around here about me I'm still here, teaching and having one of the best places foe training my knowledge is second to no one, saying it by writing it is last to everyone. Can we kust talk over the phone where I can make sense.


----------



## jks9199

Sukerkin said:


> Like I said earlier, that kind of philosophy is alright in theory until you realise that those of us who acquired a fair amount of rep in shortish order (and I count myself in that number) did so by making considered and structured posts that laid out our opinions to those who'd not heard them before.
> 
> Take that rep away and I, for one, will never gain it back for I shall not make those insightful (in others eyes) posts again.  So, in the sight of new members joining up, I shall be a chap with a thousand odd posts who never said anything worthwhile - so how did *he* ever get to be a Mentor?
> 
> That saddens me - there's a Shao-Lin Temple insult in there somewhere I'm sure.


Personally, I think people who make it a habit of writing good, interesting, rep-worthy posts will accumulate rep again.  If it's that huge an issue ('cause I'd go nuts trying to go back and re-rep people!), maybe there's some way that, instead of a total reset or dropping everyone down to 10 points or whatever it is Bob's gonna do -- he can give people some reasonable percentage of their current rep?  Maybe 1 point for every 100 or 1000 points they currently have...  As I write, I've got 96000 and change; that'd give me either 960 or 96 points respectively, as an example.


----------



## MBuzzy

I figure that those with high reps have them for a reason....no matter how they got them, they'll get there again.  People don't get high rep for a good post here and there - they get it because they have a habit of making good posts.  Plus, to those already here, your reputation isn't a bunch of pips...it exists whether those pips are there or not.  So again....they'll get it back - not as quickly, but I strongly feel that the stronger rep people will STILL be the stronger rep people.

Although, as JKS said...is it possible to give people a percentage of their current rep?  I know its been discussed, just not sure if it was shot down or not.


----------



## terryl965

You know really these reps and things are great, but seriously my rep comes from those I train and those that have got to meet me and see for themself that I know something who know what. I have been around a long time in the martial arts cuommunity and I will still be here on MT even if I have no reps. *People Like me they really really like me or so I think so anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


----------



## tshadowchaser

I could care less one way or another. I post because I have somethng to say or ask. 
I give rep points because I like a post or thought but if the rep system was not there I would still like the same post


----------



## theletch1

tshadowchaser said:


> I could care less one way or another. I post because I have somethng to sa or ask.
> I give rep points because I like a post or thought but if the rep system was not there I would still like the same post


Exactly.  In fact, if we didn't have the rep system I'd answer your post with the word..."Exactly" instead of with pos rep.  That's one of the reasons for the rep system in the first place, I believe.  It saves on the ad nauseum "I agree" posts that tend to show up in-thread.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> Interesting point.
> 
> Maybe the solution is to wait 1 month before locking out older posts from reping to allow people a chance to reacknowledge them?




I like this idea. I know you were talking about a percentage count as well. Is it possible to have a sliding scale for the older posts? i.e. if it is not 100% then it does not count? Such as someone who may post a really nice thread/post in the Locker room that might have a 50% rating, would not count, but something in the any of the art sections would count. 

It is just an idea. It could be implemented even with the % multiplier, I was just thinking out loud.


----------



## Xue Sheng

shesulsa said:


> To give people something to argue and gripe about ... you know ... instead of global warning, abortion, seed loans in Africa, decay of democracy and civil liberties in America, voting, dirty oceans and waning oceanic species, the constant dwindling of the rainforests, global economics and product safety, clean drinking water, useless wars in the middle east, the anti-christ, glass ceilings, population control, stem cell research, human cloning and future rights of future clones, the impact of space travel on the environment, socioeconomic impact of teen parents, what's in your boogers and why you shouldn't eat them, the morality of the Body Worlds exhibits, the impact of the loss of TMAs on social and psychological development on the world as a whole, avoiding the need for prosthetic joints and lipid control medications, the future of the Bujinkan, Hapkido, TKD in the western world, the splitoff of jiujutsu from judo, why the Gracies studied TMAs and their followers scoff them, flies, butterflies, moths, cockroaches, the rampant rodent issue on the east coast, destruction of the reptilian populations, feet problems with martial artists ....
> 
> Reputation appears to have a similar quality to money or sex - if you have a lot of it you don't really think about it but try to dish it out once in a while and find reasons to argue about it. If you don't have a lot of it it's easy to complain about and find reasons to argue about it. If you don't have any, it's easy to covet and find ways to beg for it, steal it and find reasons to argue about it. But whether we like it or not, we all have to deal with the fact that it's out there. If it weren't, there would still be a general, underlying system of reputation.
> 
> Truth = Perspective​


 
WHAT!!!  Animal rights and the plight of the Hump Back Whale are not IMPORTANT to you to put in the list :uhyeah:  

I think I understand what you are trying to say :asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

jks9199 said:


> Personally, I think *people who make it a habit of writing good, interesting, rep-worthy posts will accumulate rep again.*  If it's that huge an issue ('cause I'd go nuts trying to go back and re-rep people!), maybe there's some way that, instead of a total reset or dropping everyone down to 10 points or whatever it is Bob's gonna do -- he can give people some reasonable percentage of their current rep?  Maybe 1 point for every 100 or 1000 points they currently have...  As I write, I've got 96000 and change; that'd give me either 960 or 96 points respectively, as an example.





theletch1 said:


> Exactly.  In fact, if we didn't have the rep system I'd answer your post with the word..."Exactly" instead of with pos rep.  That's one of the reasons for the rep system in the first place, I believe.  *It saves on the ad nauseum "I agree" posts that tend to show up in-thread.*





Rich Parsons said:


> I like this idea. I know you were talking about a percentage count as well. Is it possible to have a sliding scale for the older posts? i.e. if it is not 100% then it does not count? Such as someone who may post a really nice thread/post in the Locker room that might have a 50% rating, would not count, but something in the any of the art sections would count.
> 
> It is just an idea. It could be implemented even with the % multiplier, I was just thinking out loud.



It's a thought, but I think it'd have to be done manually and be labor intensive.


----------



## tellner

Mr. Hubbard, Mr. McMullen, members of the Moderators and the MT Community: thirteen days from now, December 7th, 2007 - *a date which will live in infamy* - the Martial Talk Rep System was suddenly and deliberately attacked by administrative and technical forces of the MT Steering Committee.


----------



## mrhnau

tellner said:


> Mr. Hubbard, Mr. McMullen, members of the Moderators and the MT Community: thirteen days from now, December 7th, 2007 - *a date which will live in infamy* - the Martial Talk Rep System was suddenly and deliberately attacked by administrative and technical forces of the MT Steering Committee.



That could be considered a form of _terrorism_! Ack!


----------



## kidswarrior

Sukerkin said:


> ...those of us who acquired a fair amount of rep in shortish order (and I count myself in that number) did so by making considered and structured posts that laid out our opinions to those who'd not heard them before.
> 
> Take that rep away and I, for one, will never gain it back for I shall not make those insightful (in others eyes) posts again.
> 
> That saddens me


OK, I have to make a 'Me too' post here. The posting many of us did when we first got here is just not replicable. Life is not a conveyor belt where one can just return to a certain point and push the 'redo' button.

Now that's fine with me personally. I'm just a small fish in a big pond, too old to worry about what someone else might think of me, and too busy anymore to post as much as I used to. But for the sake of others, let me just say that to believe it will all 'even out' for the current high reppers is wishful thinking, I'm afraid.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

The problem is, there's no "fair" way to do this.  Regardless of what I do, someone(s) is going to get the short end.

If I do nothing, the system becomes even more of a joke, as less and less use it and newer members feel left out.

If I reset the scoring, but leave the reps unchanged, it'll be decades before anyone gets near the current Gawds_of_Rep...again, creating an elitist feeling.

If I try to devise some means of pro-rating existing, it still leaves gaps and some will feel slighted.

The only way I see to be as fair as possible is to reset everyone, including myself, to 10 points, and let things build from there again.

That said, there will be some means of recognizing who was where before the reset.  Currently, there are 107 (out of 3100) members who have at least 1 star.  On Dec 1st I'll recheck that list and those people will get a special recognition on their profiles. In addition, the ranking will be archived, by point count for all active members with a positive point count on Dec 1st. Those with negative counts or disabled reps will not be archived.

One of the other minor tweaks will be that your base rep influence will be public as well once I finish the revamp.  A few of the tweaks will be phased in next week, probably mid-week as I adjust all the settings.

The reset date is Dec 1st, not 7th btw.  I meant that 07 as in 2007.

I'll be leaving the comments intact (if I can) just resetting their point counts to zero.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

One minor update - I added the bits in to show rep power.... I'll be hopefully redoing the post layout next month as that headers getting to be a bit....heavy.


----------



## theletch1

Bob Hubbard said:


> The problem is, there's no "fair" way to do this. Regardless of what I do, someone(s) is going to get the short end.
> 
> If I do nothing, the system becomes even more of a joke, as less and less use it and newer members feel left out.
> 
> If I reset the scoring, but leave the reps unchanged, it'll be decades before anyone gets near the current Gawds_of_Rep...again, creating an elitist feeling.
> 
> If I try to devise some means of pro-rating existing, it still leaves gaps and some will feel slighted.
> 
> The only way I see to be as fair as possible is to reset everyone, including myself, to 10 points, and let things build from there again.
> 
> That said, there will be some means of recognizing who was where before the reset. Currently, there are 107 (out of 3100) members who have at least 1 star. *On Dec 1st I'll recheck that list and those people will get a special recognition on their profiles.* In addition, the ranking will be archived, by point count for all active members with a positive point count on Dec 1st. Those with negative counts or disabled reps will not be archived.
> 
> One of the other minor tweaks will be that your base rep influence will be public as well once I finish the revamp. A few of the tweaks will be phased in next week, probably mid-week as I adjust all the settings.
> 
> The reset date is Dec 1st, not 7th btw. I meant that 07 as in 2007.
> 
> I'll be leaving the comments intact (if I can) just resetting their point counts to zero.


That bit I bolded should appease some of the folks that are worried that all their time and mental effort has been for naught.  They'll still get the recognition for what they have now in their profile just not at the top of every post the type in.  If you're really, really worried about folks knowing what your rep is as of now then post a link to your profile in your sig line as an epitaph to the old system.
EDIT: Bob, not being a post whore like Terry  I just edited this post.  Didn't we used to have the posters primary art listed in the same area that the rep power is now?


----------



## grydth

Sukerkin said:


> Like I said earlier, that kind of philosophy is alright in theory until you realise that those of us who acquired a fair amount of rep in shortish order (and I count myself in that number) did so by making considered and structured posts that laid out our opinions to those who'd not heard them before.
> 
> Take that rep away and I, for one, will never gain it back for I shall not make those insightful (in others eyes) posts again.  So, in the sight of new members joining up, I shall be a chap with a thousand odd posts who never said anything worthwhile - so how did *he* ever get to be a Mentor?
> 
> That saddens me - there's a Shao-Lin Temple insult in there somewhere I'm sure.



You give yourself far too little credit, as do a number of people on this thread. There are always new topics being raised and new members to read them. 

Even if you eliminated the rep system entirely, I believe most would stay and all would produce posts of the same quality. People come here to trade knowledge, debate and make friends. 

Watch and see, this will be just like the Y2K thing, lots of apprehension but only a very small bum in the road. You have earned respect by thoughtful commentary, not by yellow pips on a screen.


----------



## Sukerkin

I just wanted to say that all of the comments made above by various members have validity and I am conscious of the fact that, as *Bob* says, he's in a no-win situation whatever way he tries to instigate a balanced rep system.

I have had chance to think on this for a little while now (not being at work for the week-end :huzzar:!) and those who have been making the point that 'rep' is merely an outward sign of what others have thought of you in the past are quite correct when you further say that, for established members, the poster is recognised for their input by their peers regardless of what the rep score sits at.

I am humanly flawed enough to be proud of the rep I have earned from a wide swathe of my compatriots here and I think part of my 'resistance' has been that I didn't want that 'badge of honour' to go away so that I have to re-prove my worth to newcomers all over again.  

Pondering on that has made me aware that such 'laurel sitting' is hardly the right attitude for a Mentor to hold.  After all, part of my 'job' is to be proactive in helping new members work out what is and what is not acceptable behaviour here and in that role my words should stand or fall on their own merits, not inhereted 'status' from things I've said in the past.

Them stars sure are shiny tho' ...


----------



## CoryKS

Bob Hubbard said:


> On Dec 1st I'll recheck that list and those people will get a special recognition on their profiles.


 
He's making a list, and checking it twice...  :rofl:


----------



## terryl965

CoryKS said:


> He's making a list, and checking it twice... :rofl:


 

Gonna find out who's naughty or nice


----------



## terryl965

terryl965 said:


> Gonna find out who's naughty or nice


 
Santa hubbard is killing us al 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





PS just so everyone knows I'm only kidding :rofl:


----------



## Brother John

Bob Hubbard said:


> The other thing is, an occational reset of the system is good, and recommended.
> It rebalances the field, and in truth, the cream will continue to rise back to the top.


I think it's a GOOD idea!
The people who're concerned about the "Reps" will work hard to get back to that point again anyway.

Is there going to be any similar revamp of the system on KT?

Your Brother
John


----------



## Brother John

The people who have UMPTEEN stars....and it matters too them, will have to strive to work at building them up again. BUT Those people who tended to give them rep points, will continue to do so....because they'll probably still appreciate their opinions and insights.

The people who have only a few green dashes will be level with the people who were the "Rep-Gawds" from before and may feel very motivated to work very hard to achieve that level as well. 

The People who've been on Santa's naughty list will be 'advanced' up to ZERO...and wipe off those several red-dashes they've been slapped with. They may feel motivated to keep from gaining those negative rep points again and try to actually move toward the positive.

Rep points (the green & the red) meant more to me when I didn't already have a full page of them! 

I think that the 'medal of MT honor', or whatever it will be in our profile, will be just fine to represent the level of contribution we've been able to make thus far.

Your Brother
John


----------



## terryl965

Brother John said:


> The people who have UMPTEEN stars....and it matters too them, will have to strive to work at building them up again. BUT Those people who tended to give them rep points, will continue to do so....because they'll probably still appreciate their opinions and insights.
> 
> The people who have only a few green dashes will be level with the people who were the "Rep-Gawds" from before and may feel very motivated to work very hard to achieve that level as well.
> 
> The People who've been on Santa's naughty list will be 'advanced' up to ZERO...and wipe off those several red-dashes they've been slapped with. They may feel motivated to keep from gaining those negative rep points again and try to actually move toward the positive.
> 
> Rep points (the green & the red) meant more to me when I didn't already have a full page of them!
> 
> I think that the 'medal of MT honor', or whatever it will be in our profile, will be just fine to represent the level of contribution we've been able to make thus far.
> 
> Your Brother
> John


 

Excellent post cudos for the wise words.


----------



## jks9199

Bob Hubbard said:


> The problem is, there's no "fair" way to do this. Regardless of what I do, someone(s) is going to get the short end.
> 
> If I do nothing, the system becomes even more of a joke, as less and less use it and newer members feel left out.
> 
> If I reset the scoring, but leave the reps unchanged, it'll be decades before anyone gets near the current Gawds_of_Rep...again, creating an elitist feeling.
> 
> If I try to devise some means of pro-rating existing, it still leaves gaps and some will feel slighted.
> 
> The only way I see to be as fair as possible is to reset everyone, including myself, to 10 points, and let things build from there again.


 
I think you've done about the best you can, and been as fair as you can.   I admit, I enjoy getting good rep, and especially value the comments that typically accompany it on this forum.  It's nice to know when others agree, or recognize something about a post.

But I'm not so wedded to my small constellation of stars to get upset over it.  I figure if I post the same way, I'll maintain the real reputation I have whether or not I have an array of stars.


----------



## Bigshadow

jks9199 said:


> I figure if I post the same way, I'll maintain the real reputation I have whether or not I have an array of stars.



That is why I say everyone's name is their reputation.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

theletch1 said:


> Didn't we used to have the posters primary art listed in the same area that the rep power is now?



We did, but took it out as some would put "kenpo" and others would put "I train at john smiths super kenpo school in tallywacker maine and he's a great guy cuz he bought me a bear" which scrolls on way too long, lol.



Brother John said:


> Is there going to be any similar revamp of the system on KT?



When I put it in at KT, I "fixed" most of the things that unbalanced the MT system.  That said, I may revisit it there too, but it doesn't seem that many people are using it there.



jks9199 said:


> I figure if I post the same way, I'll maintain the real reputation I have whether or not I have an array of stars.



True I think.  I think that those who have it now will regain it as time passes.

The other thing is, power-people who stopped using it because it felt like overkill (like myself) might start using the system again.


----------



## bydand

Bob Hubbard said:


> tallywacker maine



Have you been reading my profile and cherry picked my town?  







Oh... sorry, it's Washburn, Maine.  Could/should be Tallywacker, ME though :lfao:.


----------



## Lisa

Bob Hubbard said:


> The other thing is, power-people who stopped using it because it felt like overkill (like myself) might start using the system again.



I really agree with this Bob.  I rarely hand out rep now.  I give a gold pip with every hit and can sink someone really low if they are new to the board.  

I remember when I first started on this site, four years ago, that when I was repped by a "heavy hitter" it was around 25 points.  I was like, wow...will I ever get to that?  

The rep system is fun it is a nice way to show that you really like something someone said or give good solid advice to those you disagree with.  Resetting it won't change that.  Unfortunately some people take it more seriously then others, while some people like nothing more then to ***** about it and cry when they aren't getting the rep they think they deserve.

We shouldn't be comparing our self worth on the board by a bunch of cute little stars.  I, for one, appreciate the friendly atmosphere and the friendships I forged over my years here.  This is my home on the internet and just like my home in real life, I am not trying to keep up with the Jones'


----------



## tellner

...and I've tried to rep, but every time it's failed with an error message. Eventually I gave up trying.


----------



## 14 Kempo

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, or seen as a picky little twit, but if people would quit saying things like they "PIP" someone with a single hit of rep ... do the math ... I believe a "PIP" is 10,000 rep points and the highest out there that I have seen is Exile with 16 stars, or so, that's around 1600 rep power and therefore would take him repping a person 6 times to get close to "PIP"ing them. (1600 x 6 = 9600) So, although some people certainly have some hit power, nobody is giving anybody a star with a single rep.

Don't mean to offend anyone, but it certanly hasn't been as bad as people are being led to believe, if they are failing to do the math for themselves ... IMO


----------



## Sukerkin

I'm glad it's not just me that's been going "Hmmm ... er ... really?" on those statements :lol:.

I just buffed up *Kempo* (ooh, er and without asking too ROFL) and I added five sub-markers to his current stock, leading to the conclusion that each one of those is 200 reptars worth.  I have the feeling this is not a arithmetic scale tho' .... re-EDIT *Lisa* just confirmed that :tup:


----------



## Lisa

14 Kempo said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, or seen as a picky little twit, but if people would quit saying things like they "PIP" someone with a single hit of rep ... do the math ... I believe a "PIP" is 10,000 rep points and the highest out there that I have seen is Exile with 16 stars, or so, that's around 1600 rep power and therefore would take him repping a person 6 times to get close to "PIP"ing them. (1600 x 6 = 9600) So, although some people certainly have some hit power, nobody is giving anybody a star with a single rep.
> 
> Don't mean to offend anyone, but it certanly hasn't been as bad as people are being led to believe, if they are failing to do the math for themselves ... IMO



When I am referring to "pips" I am referring to the little squares.  There are dark green ones and light green ones and gold ones and then for every 10,000 points of reputation you have you get a star.  Dark green are worth 150 points, light green 250 and gold 1000.  So, when I have over 1,000 points of rep power, I have the potential to give anyone a gold pip with one hit.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Lisa said:


> When I am referring to "pips" I am referring to the little squares. There are dark green ones and light green ones and gold ones and then for every 10,000 points of reputation you have you get a star. Dark green are worth 150 points, light green 250 and gold 1000. So, when I have over 1,000 points of rep power, I have the potential to give anyone a gold pip with one hit.


 
Gotcha ... I don't agree, but I gotcha ... I never knew there was a difference between the colored 'pips', learned something new when it really doesn't matter anymore ... LOL


----------



## grydth

terryl965 said:


> Santa hubbard is killing us al
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS just so everyone knows I'm only kidding :rofl:



I am used to Santas that give, and ones who take away....

My kids were raised believing in 2 Santas. There was, of course,  the traditional one, but the girls would never behave *after* they had their presents. That's where REPO SANTA came in - he visited the homes of kids who were bad right after Christmas. He'd take their presents and give them to kids my girls disliked. 

It worked, too, for years.


----------



## Lisa

grydth said:


> I am used to Santas that give, and ones who take away....
> 
> My kids were raised believing in 2 Santas. There was, of course,  the traditional one, but the girls would never behave *after* they had their presents. That's where REPO SANTA came in - he visited the homes of kids who were bad right after Christmas. He'd take their presents and give them to kids my girls disliked.
> 
> It worked, too, for years.



I like your thinkin'...


----------



## grydth

tellner said:


> ...and I've tried to rep, but every time it's failed with an error message. Eventually I gave up trying.



  So THAT finally explains how I got to 3 stars!


----------



## shesulsa

tellner said:


> ...and I've tried to rep, but every time it's failed with an error message. Eventually I gave up trying.


Ever start a thread in the support forum or PM an Evil Steering Member?


----------



## tellner

I tried PMing a couple but never got a response.


----------



## exile

Lisa said:


> When I am referring to "pips" I am referring to the little squares.  There are dark green ones and light green ones and gold ones and then for every 10,000 points of reputation you have you get a star.  Dark green are worth 150 points, light green 250 and gold 1000.  So, when I have over 1,000 points of rep power, I have the potential to give anyone a gold pip with one hit.



I think a gold pip must be worth 800 points. I have 1600+ points of rep power and the least effect of every rep hit I give to someone who's into the gold pips on their current line is two, count 'em, two _more_ gold pips on top of what they've already got....

Yes, it's awesome power, but I've tried to use it only for good....


----------



## MA-Caver

exile said:


> I think a gold pip must be worth 800 points. I have 1600+ points of rep power and the least effect of every rep hit I give to someone who's into the gold pips on their current line is two, count 'em, two _more_ gold pips on top of what they've already got....
> 
> Yes, it's awesome power, but I've tried to use it only for good....


Like Uncle Ben said... :"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"


----------



## arnisador

The 50-item display is great...but is it possible to somehow highlight/separate/number the last 10 people you repped to make it easy to see who cannot be re-repped again yet? This isn't usually an issue for me but was today! I'd just like to be able to quickly check so I know when not to bother trying again yet.


----------



## Lisa

exile said:


> I think a gold pip must be worth 800 points. I have 1600+ points of rep power and the least effect of every rep hit I give to someone who's into the gold pips on their current line is two, count 'em, two _more_ gold pips on top of what they've already got....
> 
> Yes, it's awesome power, but I've tried to use it only for good....



Yup, you are right exile.  They are worth 800.  See this link here.   Thanks for catching that.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Well, I don't care so much if the system exists or not, but I don't see any problem at all if someone with the reputation of Exile, or any of the other high rep people, can add two 'pips' to someone's reputation. Who better to make that decision than those that have the power. I think this has all been blown way, way out of proportion and all started by somebody who was 'banned' from the board ... LOL ... isn't that ironic?


----------



## exile

Lisa said:


> Yup, you are right exile.  They are worth 800.  See this link here.   Thanks for catching that.



So it _is_ 800? Thanks for the confirmation, Lisa... nothing else made sense, but I'm wrong often enough that I was unsure of whether my impressions were anywhere near the ballpark. 



14 Kempo said:


> Well, I don't care so much if the system exists or not, but I don't see any problem at all if someone with the reputation of Exile, or any of the other high rep people, can add two 'pips' to someone's reputation. Who better to make that decision than those that have the power. I think this has all been blown way, way out of proportion and all started by somebody who was 'banned' from the board ... LOL ... isn't that ironic?



14 K, I appreciate the vote of confidence, very much... but maybe it's just as well. As time has gone on I've come to wonder about my judgment, and whether it should have the kind of impact that it does under the current setup.  I've tried not to give rep frivolously, and I've given neg rep only a handful of times, when someone who was deserving of better treatment was dumped on in a purely destructive way; I hate that. But the more impact you have, the greater the chance that you're skewing things in a way that reflects badlyand unfairly soon other people....

I think of the whole rep business this way...

You start as an unknown quantity, a new personality on the board, contributing your perspective on things to the eternal conversation.  As time goes on, and your own thinking evolves, your views become clearer not just to the rest of the board,  but to yourself: partly (maybe largely!) as a result of your discussions with other members, you begin to hammer out a set of views, analyses, and frameworks for thinking about a range of MA topics that have particular significance to you. People come to understand your take on these issuesso for me, for example, I've made my views fairly clear about the importance and role of kata, the crucial evidence and issues in the KMAs, the value of weight training and a few other particular issues that resonate with meand you find yourself offering links to your previous posts, rather than restating whole chunks of evidence, reasoning and argument from scratch. As kidswarrior and Sukerkin have pointed out, you move into a somewhat different phase of  your posting `career'; you've laid out your thinking on the things that you have something to say about, the places where you can contribute, and what you have to say subsequently is more in the nature of refinements and amplifications of points you've already made. 

Academics find this happens in their scholarly careers as well: you stake out an area, make certain contributions, develop and defend them, and then go on to apply them more broadly and push them still further, but at a certain point, your colleagues know who you are and what you think. Short of completely reinventing yourself, you're not going to have the same impact on discourse in the fora you're interested in that you did when you were an unknown quantity...  the best you can probably do under the circumstances is try to encourage others, people new to the board especially, to become seriously involved in the discussions and develop their own perspectives and analyses....


----------



## Bob Hubbard

tellner said:


> I tried PMing a couple but never got a response.


Who.  When.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard said:


> Who.  When.


The other thing is, in the scholastic world, when you publish your next "good" paper, a national holiday isn't declared, your name put on the new $100 bill, prime time tv interupted, and John Denver doesn't write a song for you.

When the Top-10 here rep you though, it's kinda close.

In the mean time, the new guy's getting the feeling his money aint worth nuthin.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Bob Hubbard said:


> The other thing is, in the scholastic world, when you publish your next "good" paper, a national holiday isn't declared, your name put on the new $100 bill, prime time tv interupted, and John Denver doesn't write a song for you.
> 
> When the Top-10 here rep you though, it's kinda close.
> 
> In the mean time, the new guy's getting the feeling his money aint worth nuthin.


 
OK, John Denver will not right a song, however, for those of you that are not aware, there is a brand new double CD that was released on Nov 6th of John Denver, originally recorded during a tour of the former Russia. I know John's brother and two of his nephews.

As I stated, I personally don't care ... zero it all out, do away with it, I'll still post if I have something to say. I was just Pointing out some stuff that was sticking in my head, no big deal.

As far as the new guy, let them earn it, I say ... poor little fellas


----------



## Bob Hubbard

arnisador said:


> The 50-item display is great...but is it possible to somehow highlight/separate/number the last 10 people you repped to make it easy to see who cannot be re-repped again yet? This isn't usually an issue for me but was today! I'd just like to be able to quickly check so I know when not to bother trying again yet.



Might be an option once the upgrades are all in place. I -think- it'll let you page through them, but I don't remember exactly right now.




On a slightly different note, I've tweaked the post display a little bit, to make better use of the huge header area.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> , and John Denver doesn't write a song for you.
> .


 
If he does now THAT would be news. I really don't think he can write songs anymore.


----------



## Lisa

Bob Hubbard said:


> The other thing is, in the scholastic world, when you publish your next "good" paper, a national holiday isn't declared, your name put on the new $100 bill, prime time tv interupted, *and John Denver doesn't write a song for you.*
> 
> When the Top-10 here rep you though, it's kinda close.



No but I can plaguerize (sp?) one for you to make you groan. 

(sung to Sunshine)

Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
Reputation comments can make me cry
Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
Reputation almost always makes me high

If I had the reputation to give you
Id give to you all my reputation for today
If I had a star that I could make for you
Id give a star to make you feel this way

Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
Reputation comments can make me cry
Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
Reputation almost always makes me high...




Sorry...cold medicine...making me do silly things...


----------



## Drac

Lisa said:


> No but I can plaguerize (sp?) one for you to make you groan.
> 
> (sung to Sunshine)
> 
> Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
> Reputation comments can make me cry
> Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
> Reputation almost always makes me high
> 
> If I had the reputation to give you
> Id give to you all my reputation for today
> If I had a star that I could make for you
> Id give a star to make you feel this way
> 
> Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
> Reputation comments can make me cry
> Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
> Reputation almost always makes me high...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...cold medicine...making me do silly things...


 
Hey, I liked it...I do that all the time, making up words to well known songs...


----------



## Xue Sheng

Lisa said:


> No but I can plaguerize (sp?) one for you to make you groan.
> 
> (sung to Sunshine)
> 
> Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
> Reputation comments can make me cry
> Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
> Reputation almost always makes me high
> 
> If I had the reputation to give you
> Id give to you all my reputation for today
> If I had a star that I could make for you
> Id give a star to make you feel this way
> 
> Reputation in my User CP makes me happy
> Reputation comments can make me cry
> Reputation pips on profile looks so lovely
> Reputation almost always makes me high...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry...cold medicine...making me do silly things...


 
GROAN!!

Don't tell anyone but truth be known....like it:wink1:


----------



## morph4me

Xue Sheng said:


> If he does now THAT would be news. I really don't think he can write songs anymore.


 
Yeah,  he used to be a composer now he's a decomposer:uhyeah:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Opps.

I meant Elton John.   Sorry.  lol

anyhoo, Saaturdays the day.


----------



## shesulsa

morph4me said:


> Yeah,  he used to be a composer now he's a decomposer:uhyeah:


*Groaann ...*


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob
This just came to me December 7th is Pearl Harbor day

Are you REALLY sure that you want to do this on December 7th?

1724 - Tumult of Thorn - religious unrest followed by the execution of nine Protestant citizens and the mayor of Thorn (Toru&#324 by Polish authorities.

1815 - Michel Ney, Marshal of France, is executed by firing squad after having been convicted of treason for his support of Napoleon I

1917 - World War I: The US declares war on Austria-Hungary.

1941 - World War II: Canada declares war on Finland, Hungary, Romania, and Japan.

1941 - World War II: Attack on Pearl Harbor - The Imperial Japanese Navy attacks the US Pacific Fleet and its defending Army Air Forces and Marine air forces at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. 

1946 - A fire at the Winecoff Hotel in Atlanta, Georgia kills 119 people. 

1966 - A fire at an army barracks in Erzurum, Turkey kills 68 people

1975 - Indonesia invades East Timor.

1982 - In Texas, Charles Brooks, Jr. becomes the first person to be executed by lethal injection in the US.

1983 - An Iberia Airlines Boeing 727 collides with an Aviaco DC-9 in intense fog while the two airliners are taxiing down the runway at Madrid Barajas International Airport, killing 93 people

1987 - Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 crashes near Paso Robles, California, killing all 43 on board, after a disgruntled passenger shoots his ex-boss traveling on the flight, then shoots both pilots and himself

1988 - Spitak Earthquake: In Armenia an earthquake measuring 6.9 on the Richter scale kills nearly 25,000, injures 15,000 and leaves 400,000 homeless.

1993 - The Long Island Rail Road massacre: Passenger Colin Ferguson murders six people and injures 19 others on the LIRR in Nassau County, New York

2006 - A tornado struck Kensal Green, North West London, seriously damaging around 150 properties


----------



## Xue Sheng

shesulsa said:


> *Groaann ...*


 

Graon you say... but waht about Monty Python's
Decomposing Composers 

Beethoven's gone, but his music lives on,
And Mozart don't go shopping no more.
You'll never meet Liszt or Brahms again,
And Elgar doesn't answer the door.
Schubert and Chopin used to chuckle and laugh,
Whilst composing a long symphony,
But one hundred and fifty years later,
There's very little of them left to see.
They're decomposing composers.
There's nothing much anyone can do.
You can still hear Beethoven,
But Beethoven cannot hear you.
Handel and Haydn and Rachmaninov
Enjoyed a nice drink with their meal,
But nowadays, no one will serve them,
And their gravy is left to congeal.
Verdi and Wagner delighted the crowds
With their highly original sound.
The pianos they played are still working,
But they're both six feet underground.
They're decomposing composers.
There's less of them every year.
You can say what you like to Debussy,
But there's not much of him left to hear.
Claude Achille Debussy-- Died, 1918.
Christophe Willebald Gluck-- Died, 1787.
Carl Maria von Weber-- Not at all well, 1825. Died, 1826.
Giacomo Meyerbeer-- Still alive, 1863. Not still alive, 1864.
Modeste Mussorgsky-- 1880, going to parties. No fun anymore, 1881.
Johan Nepomuk Hummel-- Chatting away nineteen to the dozen with his mates down the pub every evening, 1836. 1837, nothing.


----------



## theletch1

The change over is taking place on December 1st, not the 7th so he's good to go.


----------



## Xue Sheng

theletch1 said:


> The change over is taking place on December 1st, not the 7th so he's good to go.


 
So the title "Re: Reputation System Reset Pending...*Dec 07*"

Is just to confuse old Xue Sheng then.... not that hard to do actualy but if it is what Bob wants then it is what Bob got :asian: :uhyeah:


----------



## arnisador

I think he said it's Dec. '07, not 7 Dec.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

its 07 as in 2007.

Did that so that next year when the threads bumped and someone says 'whens this happening?" we can all hit em with nerf grenades.


----------



## Xue Sheng

arnisador said:


> I think he said it's Dec. '07, not 7 Dec.


 


:xtrmshock You see THAT'S what I mean it is all a plot to confuse me :disgust: 
Which, to be honest is not all that hard to do these days

And Dec 1 isn't much better

800 - Charlemagne judges the accusations against Pope Leo III in the Vatican. 

1420 - Henry V of England enters Paris. 

1768 - The slave ship Fredensborg sinks off Tromøy in Norway. 

1826 - French philhellene Fabvier forces his way through the Turkish cordon and ascends the Acropolis of Athens, which had been under siege. 

1913 - Crete, having obtained self rule from Turkey after the first Balkan war, is annexed by Greece. 

1934 - In the Soviet Union, Politburo member Sergei Kirov is shot dead at the Communist Party headquarters in Leningrad by Leonid Nikolayev. 

1958 - Our Lady of the Angels School fire in Chicago, Illinois kills 92 children and three nuns.

1964 - Vietnam War: US President Lyndon B. Johnson and his top-ranking advisers meet to discuss plans to bomb North Vietnam.

1965 - The Border Security Force is formed in India as a special force to guard the borders. 

1969 - Vietnam War: The first draft lottery in the United States is held since World War II. 

1971 - Cambodian Civil War: Khmer Rouge rebels intensify assaults on Cambodian government positions, forcing their retreat from Kompong Thmar and nearby Ba Ray. 

1971 - Indian Army occupies part of Kashmir. 

1974 - TWA Flight 514, a Boeing 727, crashes northwest of Dulles International Airport killing all 92 people on-board. 

1981 - A Yugoslavian Inex Adria Aviopromet DC-9 crashes in Corsica killing all 180 people on-board. 

1982 - Michael Jackson releases his second solo album Thriller, which became the biggest selling album of all time. 

1989 - Right-wing military rebel Reform the Armed forces Movement (RAM) attempt to oust Philippine President Corazon Aquino by a bloody coup attempt. 

1997  Heath High School shooting: Michael Carneal opens fire on a group of his fellow students at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky, killing three and wounding five. 

Now you see what happens when it is slow at work and I get a hold of a "This day in history webpage :uhyeah:


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Opps.
> 
> I meant Elton John. Sorry. lol
> 
> anyhoo, Saaturdays the day.


 
Hey wait a minute Elton John never sang Sunshine


----------



## theletch1

Xue Sheng said:


> :xtrmshock You see THAT'S what I mean it is all a plot to confuse me :disgust:
> Which, to be honest is not all that hard to do these days
> 
> And Dec 1 isn't much better
> 
> 800 - Charlemagne judges the accusations against Pope Leo III in the Vatican.
> 
> 1420 - Henry V of England enters Paris.
> 
> 1768 - The slave ship Fredensborg sinks off Tromøy in Norway.
> 
> 1826 - French philhellene Fabvier forces his way through the Turkish cordon and ascends the Acropolis of Athens, which had been under siege.
> 
> 1913 - Crete, having obtained self rule from Turkey after the first Balkan war, is annexed by Greece.
> 
> 1934 - In the Soviet Union, Politburo member Sergei Kirov is shot dead at the Communist Party headquarters in Leningrad by Leonid Nikolayev.
> 
> 1958 - Our Lady of the Angels School fire in Chicago, Illinois kills 92 children and three nuns.
> 
> 1964 - Vietnam War: US President Lyndon B. Johnson and his top-ranking advisers meet to discuss plans to bomb North Vietnam.
> 
> 1965 - The Border Security Force is formed in India as a special force to guard the borders.
> 
> 1969 - Vietnam War: The first draft lottery in the United States is held since World War II.
> 
> 1971 - Cambodian Civil War: Khmer Rouge rebels intensify assaults on Cambodian government positions, forcing their retreat from Kompong Thmar and nearby Ba Ray.
> 
> 1971 - Indian Army occupies part of Kashmir.
> 
> 1974 - TWA Flight 514, a Boeing 727, crashes northwest of Dulles International Airport killing all 92 people on-board.
> 
> 1981 - A Yugoslavian Inex Adria Aviopromet DC-9 crashes in Corsica killing all 180 people on-board.
> 
> 1982 - Michael Jackson releases his second solo album Thriller, which became the biggest selling album of all time.
> 
> 1989 - Right-wing military rebel Reform the Armed forces Movement (RAM) attempt to oust Philippine President Corazon Aquino by a bloody coup attempt.
> 
> 1997  Heath High School shooting: Michael Carneal opens fire on a group of his fellow students at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky, killing three and wounding five.
> 
> Now you see what happens when it is slow at work and I get a hold of a "This day in history webpage :uhyeah:


Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?!


----------



## Xue Sheng

theletch1 said:


> Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine?!


 
Yes and I love my job too

OK so I left out some of the nicer bits, however I am not exactly sure if Thriller should be here or in the previous post :uhyeah:


1640 - Portugal regains its independence from Spain and João IV of Portugal becomes king. 

1821 - The first constitution of Costa Rica is issued.

1822 - Peter I is crowned as Emperor of Brazil. 

1824 - U.S. presidential election, 1824: Since no candidate received a majority of the total electoral college votes in the election, the United States House of Representatives is given the task to decide the winner (as stipulated by the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution). 

1835 - Hans Christian Andersen publishes first book of fairy tales 

1860 - Charles Dickens publishes the first installment of Great Expectations in his magazine All the Year Round. 

1864 - In his State of the Union Address President Abraham Lincoln reaffirms the necessity of ending slavery as ordered ten weeks earlier in the Emancipation Proclamation. 

1867 - Johannes Brahms presents his Ein deutsches Requiem in Austria. 

1913 - Ford Motor Company introduces the first moving assembly line. 

1918 - Iceland becomes a sovereign state, yet remains a part of the Danish kingdom. 

1918 - Transylvania unites with Romania, following the incorporation of Bessarabia (March 27) and Bukovina (November 28). 

1918 - The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (later known as the Kingdom of Yugoslavia) is proclaimed. 

1919 - Lady Astor becomes first female member of the British Parliament to take her seat (she had been elected to that position on November 28). National Council of Romanians in Banat voted union with the Kingdom of Romania. National Council of Romanians in Transylvania voted union with the Kingdom of Romania. 

1955 - American Civil Rights Movement: In Montgomery, Alabama, seamstress Rosa Parks refuses to give her bus seat to a white man and is arrested for violating the city's racial segregation laws, an incident which leads to the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

1958 - Central African Republic becomes independent from France. 

1959 - Cold War: Antarctic Treaty signed , which sets aside Antarctica as a scientific preserve and bans military activity on that continent. 

1961 - The independent Republic of West Papua is proclaimed in modern-day Western New Guinea. 

1982 - At the University of Utah, Barney Clark becomes the first person to receive a permanent artificial heart. 

1982 - Michael Jackson releases his second solo album Thriller, which became the biggest selling album of all time. 

1990 - Channel Tunnel sections started from the United Kingdom and France meet 40 meters beneath the seabed. 

1998 - Exxon announces a US$73.7 billion deal to buy Mobil, thus creating Exxon-Mobil, the largest company on the planet.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> The other thing is, in the scholastic world, when you publish your next "good" paper, a national holiday isn't declared, your name put on the new $100 bill, prime time tv interupted, and John Denver doesn't write a song for you.
> 
> When the Top-10 here rep you though, it's kinda close.
> 
> In the mean time, the new guy's getting the feeling his money aint worth nuthin.





Bob Hubbard said:


> Opps.
> 
> I meant Elton John. Sorry. lol
> 
> anyhoo, Saaturdays the day.




John Denver nor Elton John never wrote a song about me.   I want a song about me.  

Seriously, this makes sense.  If one person sits on the side lines for  a few years in the entertainment or media business it is almost like they have to start all over with new fans, as the old ones have moved on to new people.


----------



## shesulsa

Rich Parsons said:


> John Denver nor Elton John never wrote a song about me.


They were fools, both. 



> I want a song about me.



Needs work, but here's a starter:

"Rich Man" - copyright 2007, all rights reserved by G L Ketchmark

Verse 1:

You were already here when I arrived,
That bumpy start of ours was a bit contrived.
And from that locked out thread unto the end ...
Who could ever guess you'd be my friend.

Older ways bring calm, cool and peace;
Things a bigger man has found with ease.
How could my green eyes help but see
Far we are and yet, you're much like me.


Chorus:

Trolls they come and trolls they go,
Everyone thinks they're in the know;
The further I come, the more I read there's something always in stock:
I just cannot mock the man of Balintawak.

(I'll have work on the second verse a bit)


----------



## Guro Harold

shesulsa said:


> They were fools, both.
> 
> 
> 
> Needs work, but here's a starter:
> 
> "Rich Man" - copyright 2007, all rights reserved by G L Ketchmark
> 
> Verse 1:
> 
> You were already here when I arrived,
> That bumpy start of ours was a bit contrived.
> And from that locked out thread unto the end ...
> Who could ever guess you'd be my friend.
> 
> Older ways bring calm, cool and peace;
> Things a bigger man has found with ease.
> How could my green eyes help but see
> Far we are and yet, you're much like me.
> 
> 
> Chorus:
> 
> Trolls they come and trolls they go,
> Everyone thinks they're in the know;
> The further I come, the more I read there's something always in stock:
> I just cannot mock the man of Balintawak.
> 
> (I'll have work on the second verse a bit)


In 4/4 time, repeat:

"Dude!"

Chorus:

"Dude!"

Cool, Let's make a song for Rich Thread!


----------



## Bob Hubbard

There once was a lady from Nantucket....


(see this is how I motivate folks to show up for the M&G next year.....they attend so they can smack me around.  )


----------



## Rich Parsons

shesulsa said:


> They were fools, both.
> 
> 
> 
> Needs work, but here's a starter:
> 
> "Rich Man" - copyright 2007, all rights reserved by G L Ketchmark
> 
> Verse 1:
> 
> You were already here when I arrived,
> That bumpy start of ours was a bit contrived.
> And from that locked out thread unto the end ...
> Who could ever guess you'd be my friend.
> 
> Older ways bring calm, cool and peace;
> Things a bigger man has found with ease.
> How could my green eyes help but see
> Far we are and yet, you're much like me.
> 
> 
> Chorus:
> 
> Trolls they come and trolls they go,
> Everyone thinks they're in the know;
> The further I come, the more I read there's something always in stock:
> I just cannot mock the man of Balintawak.
> 
> (I'll have work on the second verse a bit)




"G",

I love it. Thanks for the first verse so far. I might have to put it into my sig line or store it on my PC. I assume that I can use it for personal non profit usage.  


Thanks!


----------



## shesulsa

Rich Parsons said:


> "G",
> 
> I love it. Thanks for the first verse so far. I might have to put it into my sig line or store it on my PC. I assume that I can use it for personal non profit usage.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


It's yours if you like it.


----------



## Drac

Rich Parsons said:


> John Denver nor Elton John never wrote a song about me.  I want a song about me.


 
I was working in my lab late one night
When I eyes beheld a wonderous sight
For my Monster form his slab began to rise
and suddenly before my eyes.

He did the Mash.

He did the Parsons Mash.

The Parsons Mash.

It caught on it a flash.


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> (see this is how I motivate folks to show up for the M&G next year.....they attend so they can smack me around.  )



Hey, it brings me to Buffalo twice a year!


----------



## shesulsa

Bob Hubbard said:


> (see this is how I motivate folks to show up for the M&G next year.....they attend so they can smack me around.  )





arnisador said:


> Hey, it brings me to Buffalo twice a year!



He likes it too much ....


----------



## arnisador

I notice that rep. power shows even for those who have turned their rep. display off. This means one can easily reverse-engineer their rep. from their starting date and post count, both of which are visibile. Is this a good thing?


----------



## shesulsa

arnisador said:


> I notice that rep. power shows even for those who have turned their rep. display off. This means one can easily reverse-engineer their rep. from their starting date and post count, both of which are visibile. Is this a good thing?


Why would any non-mathemitician or anyone without a specific agenda who hasn't noticed want to do that?


----------



## 14 Kempo

shesulsa said:


> Why would any non-mathemitician or anyone without a specific agenda who hasn't noticed want to do that?


 
I think it's called boredom in most parts of the world.


----------



## kidswarrior

Drac said:


> I was working in my lab late one night
> When I eyes beheld a wonderous sight
> For my Monster form his slab began to rise
> and suddenly before my eyes.
> 
> He did the Mash.
> 
> He did the Parsons Mash.
> 
> The Parsons Mash.
> 
> It caught on it a flash.


:lfao:


----------



## kidswarrior

shesulsa said:


> Why would any non-mathemitician or anyone without a specific agenda who hasn't noticed want to do that?


If I had any idea what everyone was talking about I'd try to answer.


----------



## kidswarrior

arnisador said:


> Hey, it brings me to Buffalo twice a year!


Where are the Buffalo being kept these days? I know they were close to extinction for awhile....


----------



## shesulsa

kidswarrior said:


> Where are the Buffalo being kept these days? I know they were close to extinction for awhile....


At the end of his _steeeck_. :lol2:


----------



## Kreth

kidswarrior said:


> Where are the Buffalo being kept these days? I know they were close to extinction for awhile....


Waaaaaay behind New England in the Eastern Division of the Almost Football Conference. :lol:


----------



## arnisador

shesulsa said:


> Why would any non-mathemitician or anyone without a specific agenda who hasn't noticed want to do that?



I wouldn't have interrupted the song-writing if it was something unimportant. The arithmetic is trivial, and it seems to undercut the promise that Supporting Members can hide (I believe that that's the term that was used) their rep. It occurred to me that this may have been an oversight, and that if I noticed within a day or two that addition can be undone by subtraction then someone else might do so with more time.

However, I accept your implicit nudge to remain on-topic. I was listening to this on the way in to work this morning:

*The Shape I'm In* 

Go out yonder, peace in the valley;
Come downtown, have to rumble in the alley.
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in.

Has anybody seen my lady?
This living alone will drive me crazy.
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in.

I'm going down by the water,
But I ain't gonna jump in, no, no.
I'll just be looking for my maker,
And I hear that that's where she's been, oh

Out of nine lives, I've spent seven;
Now how in the world do you get to heaven?
Oh, you don't know the shape I'm in.

I just spent sixty days in the jailhouse
For the crime of having no dough, no, no.
Now here I am back out in the street
For the crime of having nowhere to go


----------



## arnisador

kidswarrior said:


> Where are the Buffalo being kept these days?



In pens behind all those places that sell Buffalo wings. Please, save a Buffalo--go vegetarian!


----------



## terryl965

arnisador said:


> In pens behind all those places that sell Buffalo wings. Please, save a Buffalo--go vegetarian!


 

No never I will always eat meat.


----------



## arnisador

With buffaloes, it might eat you first!

Place this line:
"Then Pizza will send out for _you_."


----------



## CoryKS

kidswarrior said:


> Where are the Buffalo being kept these days? I know they were close to extinction for awhile....


 
At the zoo, right next door to the Easter Seals.


----------



## Xue Sheng

arnisador said:


> In pens behind all those places that sell Buffalo wings. Please, save a Buffalo--go vegetarian!


 
Oh give me a home 
Where the Buffalos fly :xtrmshock 

I dont think so :erg:


----------



## terryl965

CoryKS said:


> At the zoo, right next door to the Easter Seals.


 
Here they are next to the rhino's


----------



## Drac

Rich Parsons said:


> I want a song about me.


 
Parsons-Man

Parsons-Man

Friendly neghiborhood Parsons-Man

Welcome thing he's ignored, action is his reward..

You know the rest...


----------



## terryl965

Drac said:


> Parsons-Man
> 
> Parsons-Man
> 
> Friendly neghiborhood Parsons-Man
> 
> Welcome thing he's ignored, action is his reward..
> 
> You know the rest...


 





That is to funny


----------



## arnisador

What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?


----------



## CoryKS

arnisador said:


> What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?


 
It's the Parsonicity.

I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, Parsonality!  huh!


----------



## shesulsa

arnisador said:


> What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?


Something about being a gentle giant, I suppose.


----------



## Xue Sheng

arnisador said:


> What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?


 
Hey&#8230; wait a minute&#8230; wasn&#8217;t there a group called the Alan Parsons Project?

And wasn&#8217;t there a singer named Gram Parsons???

What is going on here Mr Rich Parsons... if in FACT your first name IS Rich and not Alan or Gram????

:uhyeah:


----------



## arnisador

Ah, the Rich Parsons Project! _Stereotomy..._


----------



## terryl965

Xue Sheng said:


> Hey wait a minute wasnt there a group called the Alan Parsons Project?
> 
> And wasnt there a singer named Gram Parsons???
> 
> What is going on here Mr Rich Parsons... if in FACT your first name IS Rich and not Alan or Gram????
> 
> :uhyeah:


 

The plot thickens


----------



## Rich Parsons

arnisador said:


> What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?


 

I do not know, but I love it and it makes me laugh and smile.


----------



## Carol

arnisador said:


> What _is_ it about Rich Parsons that brings out the poet in peoples' souls?



(sung to the tune of AC/DC's She's Got the Jack)

He's got The Knack, he's got The Knack
He's got The Knack, he's got The Knack
He's got The Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack
He's got The Knack

(What The Knack is...)


----------



## arnisador

Rich Parsons said:


> I do not know, but I love it and it makes me laugh and smile.



I sense a candidate for cloning!


----------



## Bob Hubbard

So, it's agreed.

We replace the green dots and yellow suns with pictures of Rich?


----------



## Rich Parsons

Xue Sheng said:


> Hey wait a minute wasnt there a group called the Alan Parsons Project?
> 
> And wasnt there a singer named Gram Parsons???
> 
> What is going on here Mr Rich Parsons... if in FACT your first name IS Rich and not Alan or Gram????
> 
> :uhyeah:


 

There was a nice instrumental "B" side release called "The Ace of Swords" by the Alan Parsons Project. I always liked it.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Drac said:


> Parsons-Man
> 
> Parsons-Man
> 
> Friendly neghiborhood Parsons-Man
> 
> Welcome thing he's ignored, action is his reward..
> 
> You know the rest...


 
I might know the rest, but I sure as heck cannot carry a tune so having someone else sing is great.


----------



## Rich Parsons

CoryKS said:


> It's the Parsonicity.
> 
> I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of, Parsonality! huh!


 
Please no cults. All those unwashed followers. eeewwww.


----------



## Rich Parsons

shesulsa said:


> Something about being a gentle giant, I suppose.


 

This could be it. Everyone knows they can poke and laugh as I can always laugh at myself.  :lol:


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, it's agreed.
> 
> We replace the green dots and yellow suns with pictures of Rich?



And replace the red dots with pictures of his ***?


----------



## Rich Parsons

arnisador said:


> I sense a candidate for cloning!


 

Cloning and clowning. One has a "W" the other does not.   

Seriously No Cloning, I could not stand all the weapons training in the house. There would be no way one could walk through the house.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Bob Hubbard said:


> So, it's agreed.
> 
> We replace the green dots and yellow suns with pictures of Rich?


 
Yes we could use picutres with full beard, and Van Dyke, and Mustache and clean shaven to represent the different levels.

I assume this would only be used for those in the negative though, as some form of incitive to get positive again.


----------



## Rich Parsons

arnisador said:


> And replace the red dots with pictures of his @ss?


 

I think that for the red it should be the faces of me and the positive could be "Insert Picture Approved by Mod Staff Here" 

Of course the insert picture would only be for members or gold members or something like that of course.


----------



## Rich Parsons

terryl965 said:


> The plot thickens


 

The Plot Thickens
The Stock thickens
Soon we will all be knee deep in soup.

So take care and do not stay in the coup.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Carol Kaur said:


> (sung to the tune of AC/DC's She's Got the Jack)
> 
> He's got The Knack, he's got The Knack
> He's got The Knack, he's got The Knack
> He's got The Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack, Knack
> He's got The Knack
> 
> (What The Knack is...)


 
He back in Black.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Rich Parsons said:


> There was a nice instrumental "B" side release called "The Ace of Swords" by the Alan Parsons Project. I always liked it.


 

AH HA... SO you ARE or ARE not..... them.... never mind


----------



## arnisador

He's America's Rock Hero!

I dub this the _Last Parsons Thread_.


----------



## Carol

arnisador said:


> He's America's Rock Hero!
> 
> I dub this the _Last Parsons Thread_.



This thread is HIS.


----------



## Xue Sheng

I've paid my dues - 
Time after time - 
I've done my sentence 
But committed no crime - 
And bad mistakes 
I've made a few 
I've had my share of sand kicked in my face - 
But I've come through 

We are the Parsons - my friends 
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end - 
We are the Parsons - 
We are the Parsons 
No time for losers 
'Cause we are the Parsons - of the world - 

I've taken my bows 
And my curtain calls - 
You brought me fame and fortune and everything that goes with it 
- 
I thank you all - 

But it's been no bed of roses 
No pleasure cruise - 
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race - 
And I ain't gonna lose - 

We are the Parsons - my friends 
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end - 
We are the Parsons - 
We are the Parsons 
No time for losers 
'Cause we are the Parsons - of the world -


----------



## Rich Parsons

Xue Sheng said:


> AH HA... SO you ARE or ARE not..... them.... never mind



My Brother's Middle name is Alan.


----------



## Rich Parsons

arnisador said:


> He's America's Rock Hero!
> 
> I dub this the _Last Parsons Thread_.



I have a tendacy to do that, I do not even try. I guess we should seriously get back on topic of reputation, and it being reset.

I wish life was that easy.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Xue Sheng said:


> I've paid my dues -
> Time after time -
> I've done my sentence
> But committed no crime -
> And bad mistakes
> I've made a few
> I've had my share of sand kicked in my face -
> But I've come through
> 
> We are the Parsons - my friends
> And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
> We are the Parsons -
> We are the Parsons
> No time for losers
> 'Cause we are the Parsons - of the world -
> 
> I've taken my bows
> And my curtain calls -
> You brought me fame and fortune and everything that goes with it
> -
> I thank you all -
> 
> But it's been no bed of roses
> No pleasure cruise -
> I consider it a challenge before the whole human race -
> And I ain't gonna lose -
> 
> We are the Parsons - my friends
> And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
> We are the Parsons -
> We are the Parsons
> No time for losers
> 'Cause we are the Parsons - of the world -



Hmmm While this was playingin my head, I also heard, "WE ARE PARSONS" Something about football.


----------



## Kreth

Rich Parsons said:


> Hmmm While this was playingin my head, I also heard, "WE ARE PARSONS" Something about football.


Rich, somehow I don't see Matthew McConaughey (sp?) playing you... :rofl:


----------



## kidswarrior

arnisador said:


> And replace the red dots with pictures of his ***?


But isn't Rich a pretty big guy? So maybe the red dots should be a half-***?

Rich, you gotta be a great guy to take all this.


----------



## arnisador

Rich Parsons said:


> I have a tendacy to do that, I do not even try. I guess we should seriously get back on topic of reputation, and it being reset.



It doesn't look like they'll let your reputation be set to anything other Icon, dude.

I'm the Last Parsons to post on this thread!


----------



## Jade Tigress

I have to echo those who have said how long it took to gain their rep. I just don't make those worthy posts often enough, it took me a long time to climb to my current rep status. But, I did it before, and in 3 years I could be there again! lol

Really though, I think it's a good idea to have a reset at this point due to the issues with current rep power Bob mentioned.


----------



## terryl965

You know Jade I agree with you it took me forever to get where I am at and after thinking about it. I am sure I can reach that platou again. It will be fun to see if I can really come up with some great topics and threads and see how long it takes this time around. Resetting it is only a mind set for all of us, Seeing what was once had being torn down makes anybody sad, but also seeing a new way of building yourself is a challenge and I love a challenge tear it down and I shall rebuild it again better, stronger and faster. Wait that was the bionic man but you get the ideal.


----------



## exile

What we need, to help us refocus, might be some new, maybe collective project... I mean, all of that reputation (which really _isn't_ being destroyed; Bob has said it's being archived, so it's not as though the record of our contributions is simply evaporating) was gained on the basis of posts on a number of different topics, corresponding to the different MT fora, right? And at the moment it's sort of scattered all over the board, in the archives and hither and yon, going back through the `2,000 year secret history of MartialTalk' (sounds like some folks' views of the KMAs,  eh? :lol But I don't see any reason, other than that it would be a massive job, why we couldn't in effect distill at least some of that past history&#8212;`the best of MT' so to speak&#8212;into a kind of e-book form, with some of the best discussion _and debate_ reproduced, maybe with commentary to provide context, by the editors. We wouldn't have anything like a publisher's deadline, and mods  (and maybe other interested members with expertise in their areas) who were interested in such a project could serve as editors for the parts of the book corresponding to the fora they had moderated or made sustained contributions to. Something like that would soon take our mind off our lost reputation sorrows, I'll bet!

Does this seem to anyone like something that would be worth undertaking?


----------



## kidswarrior

exile said:


> Does this seem to anyone like something that would be worth undertaking?


Only if I get to be part of it.  Seriously, great idea, Ex.


----------



## kidswarrior

The more I think about the whole thing--change, that is--the more the realization comes into focus that I love change...in others. Hate it when _I_ have to do it. So, that clues me it's maybe a better thing than I thought. Ain't the end of the world...close maybe, but not the end. :lol:


----------



## 14 Kempo

_You're all mad! Mad I say!!!_


----------



## Xue Sheng

kidswarrior said:


> The more I think about the whole thing--change, that is--the more the realization comes into focus that I love change...in others. Hate it when _I_ have to do it. So, that clues me it's maybe a better thing than I thought. Ain't the end of the world...close maybe, but not the end. :lol:


 


This may not be the end of the world
but you can see it from here 
-----John Mellencamp (NOT anyone named Parsons)



14 Kempo said:


> You're all mad! Mad I say!!!



Yes..... Yes I am


----------



## arnisador

exile said:


> What we need, to help us refocus, might be some new, maybe collective project...



There's already the associated WIki which would be a convenient place to prepare such info., I would think, even if it were then transferred here.


----------



## exile

Thanks for the responses, guys! 



kidswarrior said:


> Only if I get to be part of it.  Seriously, great idea, Ex.



But of course you can be! Knowledge and motivation are the two things something like this requires... and oh yes, one more thing: a feasible _plan_. It's a huge (but I think worthwhile) undertaking, and projects that meet that description have be broken down into (much) smaller subprojects in order to get anywhere, I've found in my own experience. The really good thing about this particular kind of project is that it kind of lets us revisit our own posting pasts, and that of our fellow members, with the focus not on the shiny shiny `swag', as Cap'n Barbosa would say, but on the content that we all provided.

See, I think that there are things of enduring value in the discussions here, and the problem is that while archives preserve the work of the past, they're not particularly user-friendly. What I'm kind of dimly groping towards is a way to take advantage of the electronic format of all these discussions&#8212;the ease of retrieval&#8212;to provide a kind of contextualized, informed `roadmap' of (some of) the incredibly rich and interesting terrain we've covered over the past while. The archives of the threads can stay where they are, but the point of this roadmap that I have in mind would be to kind of... extract the essential content, leave the pissing contests and the personal frictions/misunderstandings out, and just focus on the essential cut and thrust of the substantive discussion, which is often very well-informed, fascinating, and probably unavailable anywhere else.



arnisador said:


> There's already the associated WIki which would be a convenient place to prepare such info., I would think, even if it were then transferred here.



Yes, that's a very good place to start! So in thinking about how to...well, how to start thinking about this project, it occurred to me that there are a few über-topics which could be used to guide the structure of this roadmap (or maybe topographic map is more like it):

&#8226; historical issues (I'm thinking big-picture history here, not lineage-rivalry details type stuff);

&#8226; technical issues (e.g., the optimal way to deliver a punch, or the right striking surface for a side kick, or a Z-lock, or the best bunkai for such-and-such kata/hyung/hsing/etc, or...)

&#8226; training techniques (the kind of stuff I've been fretting about lately, the best conditions to train on or specific routines for hip flexors, or balance;  stuff about weight-training, stuff about breathing exercises, should you use a bag or a makiwara.... etc.)

&#8226; health/safety issues...


... all those kinds of big topics, divided into coherent, connected linked discussions. There's overlap in some cases (history and technique issues meet in the `worth of kata' threads, e.g.),  but the electronic format is well suited to this kind of multiple access route situation.

I think that something along these lines would be good in itself, but it would also allow us to reconnect to the many contributions that people have made which led to those rep scores and pretty stars in the first place. The enduring stuff is the content; the rest is the icing on the cake...


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

*Change and Strife are the natural order of the universe*. (they are a constant)  Embrace change and you succeed!  Fail to embrace change and you will have lots of strife and agony. :mst: The reputation system got to big and now we will reset it and it will be a good thing for everyone involved in the long run. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Exile's idea of an archive/ebook on the best of MartialTalk is an excellent idea and something that hopefully we can do!


----------



## Xue Sheng

Reset  The four horsemen riding through the night, :anic: cats and dogs mating in the streets, doom and gloom surround us:tantrum: oh what the heck reset it

It is just not that big of a deal


----------



## Kreth

Xue Sheng said:


> It is just not that big of a deal


Exactly. If you (general you, not you XS) need rep on an internet forum to validate your opinions, well...


----------



## shesulsa

Kreth said:


> Exactly. If you (general you, not you XS) need rep on an internet forum to validate your opinions, well...


You know, whenever I say this or something similar, I get dinged and told I'm way off if I can't validate other people's feelings about the rep system ... but any good psychologist will tell you it's true.

That'll be $10 please, Charlie Brown.


----------



## kidswarrior

shesulsa said:


> You know, whenever I say this or something similar, I get dinged and told I'm way off if I can't validate other people's feelings about the rep system ... but any good psychologist will tell you it's true.
> 
> That'll be $10 please, Charlie Brown.


Maybe you get dinged because you're always asking for money...Now, where the heck did I put that ding button?


----------



## morph4me

shesulsa said:


> You know, whenever I say this or something similar, I get dinged and told I'm way off if I can't validate other people's feelings about the rep system ... but any good psychologist will tell you it's true.
> 
> That'll be $10 please, Charlie Brown.


 
There's adifference between validating and agreeing. I understand how people feel about it, I just don't think it's that big a deal. I think the people with the most rep now, will continue getting it the future, because of their consistent thoughtful and enlightening posts. I personally, will just continue to suck up to the people who can do me the most good


----------



## kidswarrior

exile said:


> Thanks for the responses, guys!
> 
> 
> 
> But of course you can be! Knowledge and motivation are the two things something like this requires... and oh yes, one more thing: a feasible _plan_. It's a huge (but I think worthwhile) undertaking, and projects that meet that description have be broken down into (much) smaller subprojects in order to get anywhere, I've found in my own experience. The really good thing about this particular kind of project is that it kind of lets us revisit our own posting pasts, and that of our fellow members, with the focus not on the shiny shiny `swag', as Cap'n Barbosa would say, but on the content that we all provided.
> 
> See, I think that there are things of enduring value in the discussions here, and the problem is that while archives preserve the work of the past, they're not particularly user-friendly. What I'm kind of dimly groping towards is a way to take advantage of the electronic format of all these discussionsthe ease of retrievalto provide a kind of contextualized, informed `roadmap' of (some of) the incredibly rich and interesting terrain we've covered over the past while. The archives of the threads can stay where they are, but the point of this roadmap that I have in mind would be to kind of... extract the essential content, leave the pissing contests and the personal frictions/misunderstandings out, and just focus on the essential cut and thrust of the substantive discussion, which is often very well-informed, fascinating, and probably unavailable anywhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's a very good place to start! So in thinking about how to...well, how to start thinking about this project, it occurred to me that there are a few über-topics which could be used to guide the structure of this roadmap (or maybe topographic map is more like it):
> 
>  historical issues (I'm thinking big-picture history here, not lineage-rivalry details type stuff);
> 
>  technical issues (e.g., the optimal way to deliver a punch, or the right striking surface for a side kick, or a Z-lock, or the best bunkai for such-and-such kata/hyung/hsing/etc, or...)
> 
>  training techniques (the kind of stuff I've been fretting about lately, the best conditions to train on or specific routines for hip flexors, or balance; stuff about weight-training, stuff about breathing exercises, should you use a bag or a makiwara.... etc.)
> 
>  health/safety issues...
> 
> 
> ... all those kinds of big topics, divided into coherent, connected linked discussions. There's overlap in some cases (history and technique issues meet in the `worth of kata' threads, e.g.), but the electronic format is well suited to this kind of multiple access route situation.
> 
> I think that something along these lines would be good in itself, but it would also allow us to reconnect to the many contributions that people have made which led to those rep scores and pretty stars in the first place. The enduring stuff is the content; the rest is the icing on the cake...


Well I'm just a lowly teacher, but having done a small bit of writing/publishing, your outline looks like a great pace to start, Ex. I've long wanted to be able to easily access some of the past threads which have been so good they'd qualify for ongoing reference to me. This project would seem to do exactly that.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Some good ideas there, and distilling things and putting them in the wiki would be great.  Seems no one but spammers use it anymore and I have been considering deleting it all as a result.  

Anyone wants to help manage the wiki, let me know and lets talk.

As to the rep, it will rebuild. Y'all earned it for a dozen reasons, and most are still doing what they've always done to be stellar members.


----------



## exile

kidswarrior said:


> Well I'm just a lowly teacher, but having done a small bit of writing/publishing, your outline looks like a great pace to start, Ex. I've long wanted to be able to easily access some of the past threads which have been so good they'd qualify for ongoing reference to me. This project would seem to do exactly that.



Well, I'm hardly in a position to agree that _any_ teacher is lowly, since that's a good chunk of what my `day job' consists of, eh?  And I'm _very_ glad to have your interest and willingness to consider doing something along these lines, KW. The access thing has been bothering me too, for exactly the same reason you mention... I'm afraid that the good stuff will get away from us if we don't start doing some systematic distilling and consolodating. We've all put in a good deal of time and thought into a lot of our posts, and I keep being astonished at how much depth of knowledge there is on the board....



Bob Hubbard said:


> Some good ideas there, and distilling things and putting them in the wiki would be great.  Seems no one but spammers use it anymore and I have been considering deleting it all as a result.
> 
> Anyone wants to help manage the wiki, let me know and lets talk.



Well, you got me and KW for starters, Bob! I'm thinking that we can maybe be a little bit more proactive, as they say, in our wiki; that is, we can bring new information to bear on the threads, in the way of commentary/context, instead of waiting passively for it to simply show up as seems to happen with the Wikipedia directors (and as the current Modern Arnis thread makes clear, there seems on occasion to be a lack of expertise amongst those directors where it's most needed...)




Bob Hubbard said:


> As to the rep, it will rebuild. Y'all earned it for a dozen reasons, and most are still doing what they've always done to be stellar members.



I, and I think everyone else, appreciate(s) the kind words, Bob. I think a project of this sort would be good for morale, and it would have a valuable side benefit: getting back into all those old threads, mining for gold, is probably going to lead to some interesting _new_ spinoff threads. For me, say, being on the board has been a tremendous education, and looking back over some of the past discussions with much greater background now than had when I first read them is very likely to get me thinking in new directions about that material. 

And as KW has pointed out earlier, change is good, doing new things is good. Song lyrics seem to have lead to topic drift here,so I don't want to make to make too much of it, but there's a great old Eric Bogle song, _Leaving the Land_, in which he says, _we'll never see what lies ahead if we keep on looking back._ At my age and stage, I _have_ to believe that the best is yet to be.... :wink1:


----------



## Drac

14 Kempo said:


> _You're all mad! Mad I say!!!_


 

Ditto I say...


----------



## MBuzzy

Exile, sounds like a great idea to me - I would love doing the research to go back through threads and pick out the relevant info.  In terms of a Wiki, it could be distilled pretty easily.  For example, take "Bassai," with simple searches and some reading, one could go back through all of the thread, pick out the relevant information and use the posts themselves as the references.  That way any reader could easily go back and find where the info came from and read the original debate.


----------



## exile

MBuzzy said:


> Exile, sounds like a great idea to me - I would love doing the research to go back through threads and pick out the relevant info.  In terms of a Wiki, it could be distilled pretty easily.  For example, take "Bassai," with simple searches and some reading, one could go back through all of the thread, pick out the relevant information and use the posts themselves as the references.  That way any reader could easily go back and find where the info came from and read the original debate.



Good on ya, Craigthis is clearly going to require a lot of people to carry off. I'm hoping that Bob will have some ideas, or suggestions, about the format of the final product, which, ideally, would turn out to be something that one might fairly call `readable', though structured in a way which would allow someone to hope in fairly quickly on a particular topic, and pick up some useful background information along the way. 

The topic `Bassai' is a good example of how much ground there is to cover: we've had threads about the meaning of the name (with interesting debate about the standard `breaching a stronghold' translation), the history of the form itself, the most practical applications of the movement for street defense... lots of imporant stuff about the relationship between the Okinawan and Japanese forms of karate, the relationship between Japanese and Korean karate, and the place of forms in the curriculum, as well as the role of the Korean superorgs in jettisoning O/J elements that had been in the proto-TKD syllabus and now only persist in TSD and some very conservative-lineage kwan descendant TKD schools. There are probably a dozen different threads that would be useful to someone who scanned the `Table of Contents' of this hypothetical resource we're talking about, looking for information about bunkai/boon hae in the `Technique' subdivision but seeing cross-links to stuff in the History and Teaching subdivisions... It would be an immensely useful research and learning tool, something that would be completely unique in the world of web-based MA discussion fora. 

I'm hoping that some of the most active and authortitative members will become interested in this project and help think through just how it should be organized and carried out, and what the final format should look like...


----------



## Xue Sheng

Kreth said:


> Exactly. If you (general you, not you XS) need rep on an internet forum to validate your opinions, well...


 
Easy for you to say you have 8 stars and I only have 7 :uhyeah: 

You pretty hit the nail on the head with that one :asian:


----------



## terryl965

Exile I will try and help as well, just let me know what you need.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Xue Sheng said:


> Reset  The four horsemen riding through the night, :anic: cats and dogs mating in the streets, doom and gloom surround us:tantrum: oh what the heck reset it
> 
> It is just not that big of a deal



Did someone call? 

I agree that it is not big deal.


----------



## theletch1

Rich Parsons said:


> *Did someone call*?
> 
> I agree that it is not big deal.


 
Nope, I passed gas.:uhyeah:


----------



## shesulsa

theletch1 said:


> Nope, I passed gas.:uhyeah:


:fart:


----------



## exile

terryl965 said:


> Exile I will try and help as well, just let me know what you need.



That's _great_, TerryI think the Korean MA discussion in particular will benefit from a lot of participation by experienced practitioners and instructors, given the often combative nature of the discussions that have gone on in the KMA forum. I'm very glad this sort of project looks good to you!


----------



## MBuzzy

exile said:


> That's _great_, TerryI think the Korean MA discussion in particular will benefit from a lot of participation by experienced practitioners and instructors, given the often combative nature of the discussions that have gone on in the KMA forum. I'm very glad this sort of project looks good to you!


 
Agreed - I know that just within the KMA, there have been MANY times that I'm looking for all of the consolidated knowledge on this site on a single topic.  It takes me a very long time to find what I'm looking for and is frustrating to do it again if needed.

(by the way, would it be possible to split this discussion out to another thread?  Might be a better way to keep track of ideas, suggestions, and volunteers.  Although maybe I'm just a touch OCD  )


----------



## terryl965

MBuzzy said:


> Agreed - I know that just within the KMA, there have been MANY times that I'm looking for all of the consolidated knowledge on this site on a single topic. It takes me a very long time to find what I'm looking for and is frustrating to do it again if needed.
> 
> (by the way, would it be possible to split this discussion out to another thread? Might be a better way to keep track of ideas, suggestions, and volunteers. Although maybe I'm just a touch OCD  )


 
I agree a split would be best and let more people see what we are trying to do.


----------



## jks9199

exile said:


> Well, you got me and KW for starters, Bob! I'm thinking that we can maybe be a little bit more proactive, as they say, in our wiki; that is, we can bring new information to bear on the threads, in the way of commentary/context, instead of waiting passively for it to simply show up as seems to happen with the Wikipedia directors (and as the current Modern Arnis thread makes clear, there seems on occasion to be a lack of expertise amongst those directors where it's most needed...)


 
I'd possibly be willing to help a bit... if someone can educify me on the Wiki.  I've got the very broad strokes of what they are... but that's it.  Heck... I didn't even know there was a MT Wiki!


----------



## Sukerkin

Wonderful concept with regard to the 'Distilled Wisdom' wiki idea.  I'm certainly interested in lending a hand one way or the other on that.

For those that do not think that 'reputation' has any significance in the on-line world then I completely disagree - reputation is the *only* thing of significance that you have in the on-line world.  

We may be talking at crossed dolphins here ... sorry, porpoises ... sorry ... _purposes_ so forgive me if I'm seizing the wrong end of the electronic stick but in our on-line prescence the solitary defining characteristic is what other people think about what we have said.  None of the other normal cues that regulate human interaction or status exist due to the medium of the idea exchange.

Eradicate the past and you are destined to repeat it, to re-phrase an old aphorism. (lots of nonsense clipped away, move on, nothing sensible to read here}.

I suppose the key issue is *if* new members pay any attention to reputation.  On a related point, I don't think it's been raised yet but there is the problem of reputation versus what is actually perceived by an individual - I know I have read stuff by people with a fistful of stars to their name and gone {censored} ...

All I can say is that there are people here that I know, like and agree with and there are those that I do not (tho' those on the 'not' side can still surprise me immeasurably ).  

Did I arrive at these distinctions via a persons 'rep' score?  I have to be honest and say I did not.  I formed my own opinion based on what I read of what they wrote.  

Thus, previous polemics on my part notwithstanding, does the reputation system serve a purpose at all?  

I admit I'm honoured to have what I have burbled be so well thought of by so many people here (and I really mean that as some peoples comments have brought strong emotions to the fore) but {poignant pause} if the new person to the fora does not understand that a bunch of stars does not mean "Posts a lot" but "Speaks a lot of sense, or at least we think so" then does the system really serve a purpose at all?

Not to point fingers but if so-and-so posts then I'm eager to read what they've said as it'll likely be interesting, accurate or thought provoking.  If, on the other hand, so-and-so posts then I know not to bother looking unless I want an argument ROFL.  I did not arrive at these distinctions via rep stars.  

To finish and just to cloud the issue P) it does, however, have to be said that those with a lot of stars to their name tend to fall into the former category than the latter.


----------



## MBuzzy

I've been looking through the wiki here.  There are definately a lot of things in the Martialpedia that aren't replicated on wikipedia - but a lot that are.  If this project does go the direction of using the wiki engine that's already in place, a few things.  First, there's already a lot out there on wikipedia that can be used.  Second and most importantly, we need a way to capitalize on the knowledge on MT as Exile said.  Martialpedia is a great thing, but there is nothing in place to integrate it to the posts...links or references.  It is a great thing, but there is definately a huge wealth of knowledge to be added, even if that isn't the route we choose to go.  So, I would propose that if we use another avenue, there should still be a renewed focus on martialpedia to bring it up to standards.

This is also an opportunity to completely start from scratch with a whole new medium.  Not necessarily a wiki, but another combination of the collected site's knowledge.  Even just a page with a bunch of links that link back to all of the posts on a particular topic would help.  If each topic was then condense and summarized, it would be even better.


----------



## MBuzzy

Sukerkin said:


> I suppose the key issue is *if* new members pay any attention to reputation. On a related point, I don't think it's been raised yet but there is the problem of reputation versus what is actually perceived by an individual - I know I have read stuff by people with a fistful of stars to their name and gone {censored} ...


 
To be completely honest, I had no CLUE what those little green things were for the first month or so that I posted here.  I didn't bother to look it up, didn't care enough, didn't notice, whatever it was....but by the time that I decided to look, I already had some.


----------



## MJS

Folks,

Just a quick note.  Lets do our best to keep the discussion in this thread to the rep system.  There are other sections that can be used for non rep related stuff.

If a split is desired, *any* Senior Mod and above can take care of that.  

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## MA-Caver

MJS said:


> Folks,
> 
> Just a quick note.  Lets do our best to keep the discussion in this thread to the rep system.  There are other sections that can be used for non rep related stuff.
> 
> If a split is desired, *any* Senior Mod and above can take care of that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike


Definitely agree here. Don't want this to be *rep*etitive. :uhyeah:


----------



## exile

MJS said:


> Folks,
> 
> Just a quick note.  Lets do our best to keep the discussion in this thread to the rep system.  There are other sections that can be used for non rep related stuff.
> 
> If a split is desired, *any* Senior Mod and above can take care of that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



Yeah, it might be good at this point if the MT-wiki project discussion were split off, as I think it has some momentum of its own and will I hope gather more as it goes on. I brought it up in the context of rep, and how people might turn their discomfort in the face of the now-imminent rep reset into something energizing, but it probably could do with its own home at this point, given the interest in it. I would do the split myself, but not without authorization! :wink1:


----------



## newGuy12

If I may make just one statement,





MBuzzy said:


> Although maybe I'm just a touch OCD  )


Being just a touch OCD is probably just what a project like that needs!


----------



## kidswarrior

MBuzzy said:


> (by the way, would it be possible to split this discussion out to another thread?  Might be a better way to keep track of ideas, suggestions, and volunteers.  Although maybe I'm just a touch OCD  )


Well, I've always thought you're a little OCD--just kidding dude, Jeez, put the military hardware away.  

Seriously, I think a split thread where we could continue to foment ideas on Exile's proposal would be great.


----------



## kidswarrior

newGuy12 said:


> If I may make just one statement,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being just a touch OCD is probably just what a project like that needs!


Jeez, NG, you too?


----------



## newGuy12

kidswarrior said:


> Jeez, NG, you too?



Let's just put it this way -- I have had people with FANCY educations tell me, "Be careful with compulsive thinking, but do not worry about obsessive thinking, just be sure that you point it in the right direction!"

:uhyeah:

You would be surprised how many professional folks are diagnosed OCD.


----------



## kidswarrior

newGuy12 said:


> Let's just put it this way -- I have had people with FANCY educations tell me, "Be careful with compulsive thinking, but do not worry about obsessive thinking, just be sure that you point it in the right direction!"
> 
> :uhyeah:



[/quote]Well, at the risk of pissing off the MT royalty and going OT for just a wee second, if I knew what you just said I would either agree or disagree with you--or not. :idunno: 



> You would be surprised how many professional folks are diagnosed OCD.


 Would not. I work for about half of them. 

OK, sorry, back ON TOPIC. :asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Reputation system has been reset.
I have a list of the top 1,000 reps as of just prior to the reset. I'll be formatting it and adding it as a static page this week, as well as adding the custom badge for those who had a gold star. I can use a suggestion for a -short- tag phrase to use for it.  See existing badges for space limits.

Danke.


*
Reputation System Changes:*

Maximum possible reputation effect is now capped at 50 points, regardless of what your total rep score is.  No more Nuclear Rep Blasts.

Posts older than 180 days are no longer eligible for rep.
Posts in locked threads are no longer eligible for rep.
Posts made in Staff areas are no longer eligible for rep.
Posts made in the General Chat sections are only worth 50% now.
Posts made in the Advertising section are no longer eligible for rep.
Posts made in the "Special Projects" areas are no longer eligible for rep.
Posts made in the "Bar & Grill" areas are no longer eligible for rep.


Other changes
Settings

Number of Reputation Ratings to Display : 50
Controls how many ratings to display in the user's control panel.


Number of Reputation Given comments to display : 50
The maximum number of Reputation Given Comments to display in the user cp.


Register Date Factor : 365
For every X number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Post Count Factor : 1,000
For every X number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Reputation Point Factor : 1,000
For every X points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.


Minimum Post Count : 10
How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?


Minimum Reputation Count : 10
How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?


Daily Reputation Clicks Limit : 40
How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period? Administrators are exempt from this limit.


Reputation User Spread : 10
How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again? Administrators are exempt from this limit.


Extended Reputation Dark Green Count : 10
The maximum number of dark green pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Dark Green Value : 100
The value of each dark green pip in the extended reputation display.


Extended Reputation Light Green Count : 10
The maximum number of light green pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Light Green Value : 500
The value of each light green pip in the extended reputation display.


Extended Reputation Golden Count : 10
The maximum number of golden pips to display before moving onto the next level.


Extended Reputation Gold Value : 1,000
The value of each golden pip in the extended reputation display.


Reputation Delete Time (Seconds) : 600
Time Limit in which users can delete their own reputation comments


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist

Bob can we disable our rep? I find this system to be like Dungeons and Dragon's in which the Dugeon master get's to change the rules when the other kid sneezes  Anyway can you tell me how to disable my reps.-Thanks


----------



## theletch1

Jade, go to the UserCP icon in the upper left portion of this screen.  Click there.  When your UserCP screen pops up look on the left side banner and click on Edit Options.  The option to turn off your rep indicator is there.


----------



## Drac

Tis a sad day.....


----------



## MBuzzy

Taps is playing in my head.


----------



## Drac

MBuzzy said:


> Taps is playing in my head.


 
Bows head while taps is being played...


----------



## Drac

Maybe we can get Exile to give the eulogy...No better scratch that, with his gift for words we could be here all day, no offense Ex...That being said I am heading over to Lisa's Lounge to drink a toast to the rep systems demise..Anyone care to join me???


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Rep has been reset and good riddance!


----------



## Drac

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Rep has been reset and good riddance!


 
Heartless Philistine...


----------



## Sukerkin

I concur *Drac* - the light of democracy was estinguished and the drabness of the totalitarian hand besmirched all before our eyes.  

Then again, I knew it was an oligarchy when I signed up, so it's no good my complaining about it now when I didn't get my way .  Oddly, I do feel inside like I've been demoted from trusted Leftenant to Spear-Carrier Third Class tho'.

I'll give the new system time to settle but at first glance it's, no pun intended for a change, kind of pointless if I'm reading the above parameters correctly.  With my awesome rep power of three I can hand out 'buff's' till doomsday and make not a hair of difference to someones public persona.  

Still, I suppose the comments will still count for the people concerned and that's the most important thing.


----------



## terryl965

Drac said:


> Maybe we can get Exile to give the eulogy...No better scratch that, with his gift for words we could be here all day, no offense Ex...That being said I am heading over to Lisa's Lounge to drink a toast to the rep systems demise..Anyone care to join me???


 
I will be joining you all for the wake


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Not that it was not fun or that everyone did not deserve their rep. (You know you did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) It's just that the system was out growing itself!


----------



## terryl965

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Not that it was not fun or that everyone did not deserve their rep. (You know you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) It's just that the system was out growing itself!


 
We know Brian but it is like taking away a child beloved toy, it hurts and we feel pain and all of our emotion are over flowing. That is why we have opened the bar fpr this occasion, it is bettter to drink and remember that not drink at all.


----------



## Sukerkin

*Letch* just gave me some good advice on how we should not allow the change of the rep system to make us feel some intagible loss of worth and that our value to the board is not counted in 'stars' - thank you, good sir :rei:.  I would rep you for your words but sadly the Gnomes are still as doughty as ever when it comes to saying "No!" :lol:.


----------



## exile

Drac said:


> Maybe we can get Exile to give the eulogy...No better scratch that, with his gift for words we could be here all day, no offense Ex...That being said I am heading over to Lisa's Lounge to drink a toast to the rep systems demise..Anyone care to join me???



Actually, _I_ care to join you, Dracwill get me in the proper spirit to deliver the eulogy....

feels weird, doesn't it.


----------



## Kacey

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Bob can we disable our rep? I find this system to be like Dungeons and Dragon's in which the Dugeon master get's to change the rules when the other kid sneezes  Anyway can you tell me how to disable my reps.-Thanks





theletch1 said:


> Jade, go to the UserCP icon in the upper left portion of this screen.  Click there.  When your UserCP screen pops up look on the left side banner and click on Edit Options.  The option to turn off your rep indicator is there.


You can, just as letch said - but you have to be a supporting member for that feature to work.  Look here for more information on supporting memberships - well worth the minimal cost!

As far as the rep reset - I think, over all, it's a good thing - it had reached the point where I wasn't willing to rep because something had to be _really_ good to merit the 1400+ points I meted out; I foresee a much more rep coming from me, now that I give out 13 points instead!


----------



## Drac

exile said:


> Actually, _I_ care to join you, Dracwill get me in the proper spirit to deliver the eulogy....
> 
> feels weird, doesn't it.


 
Yes it does..


----------



## MBuzzy

exile said:


> Actually, _I_ care to join you, Dracwill get me in the proper spirit to deliver the eulogy....
> 
> feels weird, doesn't it.


 
Ex, I know this must have a huge impact on you....you've lost more than any of us....if you need someone to talk to........we're here for you.


----------



## exile

I've always thought that when something comes to an end, you need to start something new. That's how we human beings manage to keep going even with our dispiriting knowledge that one day it does all come to an End. 

So I'm going to start another thread on this Wiki-based project I've been thinking and posting about during the last week or so, and I hope that you all will take part. I don't want it to be my project, but _everyone's_ project&#8212;a way to keep all the insights, knowledge and good arguments and make them accessible&#8212;because sometimes the argumentation and reasoning and counter-reasoning winds up being more interesting and important than any conclusions that might arise about whether the down block in such-and-such a kata _was_ originally a down block, or at exactly what point in history the word _kenpo_, based on _ch'uan-fa_, stopped being synonymous with karate in Okinawa. 

I have some ideas about what kind of organizational structure would best serve a project like this (looser is better than tighter, I think, with some central processing unit keeping things moving), and some suggestions about the structure and time frame (if a lot of people are working in parallel, it will take less time, but it's a long term project no matter what). But as I say, I'd like to see it as something where people are all doing their own bit, in tandem with others, and get their contribution recognized explicitly (if you write a kind of overview, say, of the organizational structure of contemporary Ninjutsu, as I remember Brian v. C. doing around a year or so ago&#8212;beautiful piece, should have been made a sticky in that section, I always thought&#8212;then your byline goes with the piece, just as in many encyclopædia entries for special academic disciplines, your name and affiliation go with the entry you wrote.)

A bunch of disconsolate MAists wandering around loose after being up half the night in Lisa's Lounge or the Urusai is a scary thought, right? Something like this will at least keep us off the streets... 



MBuzzy said:


> Ex, I know this must have a huge impact on you....you've lost more than any of us....if you need someone to talk to........we're here for you.



I appreciate the offer very much, Craig... just remember, any time you're in town again, there's a pint or two of Barley's finest cask-conditioned Real Ale with your name on it waiting for you! :lol: (My treat, and the offer goes for _any_ of you folks who find yourselves in Columbus with some free time.)


----------



## Sorros

Why don't we erase all that garbage on my user cp that was left.


----------



## newGuy12

Okay, here we go!

Everyone get ready to rumble!!!

I have my finger POISED on the left hand button of the mouse, ready to give rep at a second's notice.  Instinctual.  I can give rep so fast that I don't even have to think about it!

I just DO, not THINK.  Then, I witness myself giving rep, clicking on gui buttons.  I think to myself, DANG, that was fast how that rep energy was expressed out of my body so fast!    

I wish to be able to give rep to two people simultaneously, American Kenpo style!!!

w00000000!!!!!


----------



## exile

newGuy12 said:


> Okay, here we go!
> 
> Everyone get ready to rumble!!!
> 
> I have my finger POISED on the left hand button of the mouse, ready to give rep at a second's notice.  Instinctual.  I can give rep so fast that I don't even have to think about it!
> 
> I just DO, not THINK.  Then, I witness myself giving rep, clicking on gui buttons.  I think to myself, DANG, that was fast how that rep energy was expressed out of my body so fast!
> 
> I wish to be able to give rep to two people simultaneously, American Kenpo style!!!
> 
> w00000000!!!!!



But are you doing rep-door rep-jutsu?? Biiiiig difference! :lol:


----------



## bydand

Oh well, the stars in the profile are gone, but the *Stars *of Martial Talk are still here, and that is what counts.  Drac, Terry, Exile, Kacey, Shurekin, Letch, and everybody else here who always has good insights and posts.  May not agree with all of them all the time, but you know what; I'm kind of glad the high rep powers have gone by the wayside.  I know I missed getting a blip from some of you just letting me know you agreed with some minor post I had made. I know even me with a high of 650+ points was getting stingy with giving out a pat on the back because I liked either the way you answered a question or a response that was posted.  I can just think how giving 1400, 1500, 2000 at a pop would have changed how I gave rep out.  

For one, I am glad for the change.  All of you that were the heavy hitters before, still are, just not as huge.  More than the rest of us though, and I know every single point I get in the future will hold more value personally.


----------



## kidswarrior

Sukerkin said:


> *Letch* just gave me some good advice on how we should not allow the change of the rep system to make us feel some intagible loss of worth and that our value to the board is not counted in 'stars' - thank you, good sir :rei:.  I would rep you for your words but sadly the Gnomes are still as doughty as ever when it comes to saying "No!" :lol:.


Yeah, they just shut me out when I tried to rep _you_. And to think you missed out on two points!


----------



## michaeledward

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> Bob can we disable our rep? I find this system to be like Dungeons and Dragon's in which the Dugeon master get's to change the rules when the other kid sneezes  Anyway can you tell me how to disable my reps.-Thanks


 
What is the effect of having Reputation disabled? 

If my Rep is disabled, and I note that I approve of a post, does it alter the person's reputation or not? 

If my Rep is disabled, and I note that I disapprove of a post, does it alter the poster's reputation or not? 

Thank you.


----------



## exile

There's gonna be a bit of a break-in period, no question. But in a couple of months it'll probably seem totally normal... we're not, as a species, very good at planning, but we _are_ good at adapting. 

Just one thing to remember: if you're curious about who has liked something you've posted (or not), you're going to have to check your rep a lot more often! In the pre-reset era, it was pretty clear to someone when they got rep from me, say; post-reset, it's going to take an awful lot of 7-point hits to translate to a new pip, even one of the dark green ones. So if the comments and feedback are the important thing (as they should be, I think), then you need to check every so often to see if anyone had anything to say to you via the rep system...


----------



## grydth

Pretty much agree with bydand. I don't view any of you as 'diminished' without the big star displays.

Look, I've run into people with all sorts of high awards, jobs and honors who were really nothing but ***.  Putting a cow patty into a cereal box doesn't make it cereal.

 Yet......How many times have we read a post from a new member - no star power - but which obviously reflected years of study and superb insight?  

I don't come here to associate with star power; I come to discuss and learn. That will remain constant no matter what the displays are.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Sukerkin said:


> I concur *Drac* - the light of democracy was estinguished and the drabness of the totalitarian hand besmirched all before our eyes.
> 
> Then again, I knew it was an oligarchy when I signed up, so it's no good my complaining about it now when I didn't get my way .  Oddly, I do feel inside like I've been demoted from trusted Leftenant to Spear-Carrier Third Class tho'.
> 
> I'll give the new system time to settle but at first glance it's, no pun intended for a change, kind of pointless if I'm reading the above parameters correctly.  With my awesome rep power of three I can hand out 'buff's' till doomsday and make not a hair of difference to someones public persona.
> 
> Still, I suppose the comments will still count for the people concerned and that's the most important thing.



I'm watching things carefully the next few days to iron out any issues as they come up. As your rep goes up, your power will increase. The max it will go for anyone is half a green dot in 1 hit. 3 points doesn't seem like much, but it all adds up. Interestingly enough, theres 3 people a few points shy of that next green dot.



Sukerkin said:


> *Letch* just gave me some good advice on how we should not allow the change of the rep system to make us feel some intagible loss of worth and that our value to the board is not counted in 'stars' - thank you, good sir :rei:.  I would rep you for your words but sadly the Gnomes are still as doughty as ever when it comes to saying "No!" :lol:.



Don't understand?



Sorros said:


> Why don't we erase all that garbage on my user cp that was left.



Looking into that.  I left the old comments as several folks had asked to keep them. I'm checking into a few add-ins to give more options to folks.  I can also (theoretically) clean them out on a per-member basis, as long as I don't get swamped with requests.



michaeledward said:


> What is the effect of having Reputation disabled?
> 
> If my Rep is disabled, and I note that I approve of a post, does it alter the person's reputation or not?
> 
> If my Rep is disabled, and I note that I disapprove of a post, does it alter the poster's reputation or not?
> 
> Thank you.



Dunno.  Disable your rep and hit me.  Lets find out.


----------



## newGuy12

bydand said:


> Oh well, the stars in the profile are gone, but the *Stars *of Martial Talk are still here, and that is what counts.  Drac, Terry, Exile, Kacey, Shurekin, Letch, and everybody else here who always has good insights and posts.



Hear, hear!


----------



## michaeledward

Bob Hubbard said:


> Dunno. Disable your rep and hit me. Lets find out.


 
Okay, Let's start first with the 'Disapprove' rep. Nothin' personal, of course 

And I gave the 'Approve' rep to Exile.

Both while I had my rep disabled ..


----------



## Sukerkin

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm watching things carefully the next few days to iron out any issues as they come up.


 
We didn't expect otherwise, good Captain.  We know you didn't come by this change arbitrarily and will be keeping a weather eye out to see how it grows. 



*Originally Posted by Sukerkin  
Letch just gave me some good advice on how we should not allow the change of the rep system to make us feel some intagible loss of worth and that our value to the board is not counted in 'stars' - thank you, good sir :rei:. I would rep you for your words but sadly the Gnomes are still as doughty as ever when it comes to saying "No!" .* 



Bob Hubbard said:


> Don't understand?


 
Which bit of my maunderings was even more abstruse than the rest, Bob?

If it's the part about the Rep Gnomes saying "No!", what I mean is that the system wont allow me to rep *Letch* for his good advice because I haven't spread the love around enough since last I repped him.


----------



## shesulsa

I was a great ride, folks - but it's healthy to empty your cup and wash it out once in a while.  I'm lamenting too, a bit ... but good posters are good posters and they will earn it back.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

michaeledward said:


> Okay, Let's start first with the 'Disapprove' rep. Nothin' personal, of course
> 
> And I gave the 'Approve' rep to Exile.
> 
> Both while I had my rep disabled ..



Showed up on both. So you can give rep while your display is disabled.



Sukerkin said:


> We didn't expect otherwise, good Captain.  We know you didn't come by this change arbitrarily and will be keeping a weather eye out to see how it grows.
> 
> 
> 
> *Originally Posted by Sukerkin
> Letch just gave me some good advice on how we should not allow the change of the rep system to make us feel some intagible loss of worth and that our value to the board is not counted in 'stars' - thank you, good sir :rei:. I would rep you for your words but sadly the Gnomes are still as doughty as ever when it comes to saying "No!" .*
> 
> 
> 
> Which bit of my maunderings was even more abstruse than the rest, Bob?
> 
> If it's the part about the Rep Gnomes saying "No!", what I mean is that the system wont allow me to rep *Letch* for his good advice because I haven't spread the love around enough since last I repped him.



Ah, ok.  Gotcha.


----------



## exile

michaeledward said:


> Okay, Let's start first with the 'Disapprove' rep. Nothin' personal, of course
> 
> And I gave the 'Approve' rep to Exile.
> 
> Both while I had my rep disabled ..



ME, your rep came to me loud and clearthanks! :asian:so it looks as though you can still transmit rep....


----------



## Sukerkin

exile said:


> So if the comments and feedback are the important thing (as they should be, I think), then you need to check every so often to see if anyone had anything to say to you via the rep system...


 
Visiting _User CP_ is always the first thing I do whenever I log in.

I don't know if this says that I'm empathetic and keen to hear what my fellows think or that I'm a raging narcissist basking in the glow of internet fora :lol:.  I hope the former but I wont deny the warmth of fellow feeling I get when someone has something kind to say about my babblings.


----------



## shesulsa

Bob Hubbard said:


> Showed up on both. So you can give rep while your display is disabled.


Okay, now ... I have a problem with that.  If a person doesn't want to play the game then it should be an all-or-nothing system, IMNSHO.  If you're going to participate then people should be able to see your rep display - if you're not going to show it to anyone else then you shouldn't have the power to influence other peoples' rep.  

Sorry, but it's an integrity thing for me.


----------



## Kreth

Bob Hubbard said:


> Showed up on both. So you can give rep while your display is disabled.


Is this something that can be disabled? If you're going to disable rep, you shouldn't be able to affect the rep of others.


----------



## Xue Sheng

shesulsa said:


> Okay, now ... I have a problem with that. If a person doesn't want to play the game then it should be an all-or-nothing system, IMNSHO. If you're going to participate then people should be able to see your rep display - if you're not going to show it to anyone else then you shouldn't have the power to influence other peoples' rep.
> 
> Sorry, but it's an integrity thing for me.


 


Kreth said:


> Is this something that can be disabled? If you're going to disable rep, you shouldn't be able to affect the rep of others.


 

Agreed


----------



## Kacey

shesulsa said:


> Okay, now ... I have a problem with that.  If a person doesn't want to play the game then it should be an all-or-nothing system, IMNSHO.  If you're going to participate then people should be able to see your rep display - if you're not going to show it to anyone else then you shouldn't have the power to influence other peoples' rep.
> 
> Sorry, but it's an integrity thing for me.





Kreth said:


> Is this something that can be disabled? If you're going to disable rep, you shouldn't be able to affect the rep of others.





Xue Sheng said:


> Agreed



Me too... or four... but I agree, it's an integrity issue.  If you don't want to play, then fine - but it should go both ways.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Ok, the archiver I was looking at isn't compatable with this version of vb. I'll check again later for an alternate solution.


There's no easy way I can see to stop someone with dsabled rep from repping.  I'm sure a work around can be setup, but nothing can stop someone from reenabling it, dinging someone, then turning it back off again.


----------



## Sukerkin

That's a tough one.  

I concur that everyone we know here will play by the unwritten rules and not bunker down behind the Rep Disabled shield whilst popping out to batter others for the 'fun' of it.  

What to do if someone comes along who wont do that is more problematic - I guess all anyone can do who falls foul of such an event is do what we all should do if the circumstance requires a response - hit the RTM button.

Oh, and as aside, *Bob*, huge kudos for assigning yourself "Rep Power = 0" :sensei rei:.


----------



## arnisador

I didn't know it was 'playing'. Why wouldn't you want comments from whomever felt compelled to give them? To my mind disabling the _display _of something that still accumulates--their rep. is noted and stored, right?--isn't such a big deal.


----------



## grydth

Sukerkin said:


> Visiting _User CP_ is always the first thing I do whenever I log in.
> 
> I don't know if this says that I'm empathetic and keen to hear what my fellows think or that I'm a raging narcissist basking in the glow of internet fora :lol:.  I hope the former but I wont deny the warmth of fellow feeling I get when someone has something kind to say about my babblings.



Maybe there's another lesson in this entire process ..... reps mean a lot to some folks and we could all be more diligent in handing out the congrats. 

In the past I often figured that, if somebody already had more stars than the Walk of Fame, what difference if I took the time to add something?  Now, with the discussions,  one can see a little more clearly why it is worthwhile.


----------



## shesulsa

arnisador said:


> I didn't know it was 'playing'. Why wouldn't you want comments from whomever felt compelled to give them? To my mind disabling the _display _of something that still accumulates--their rep. is noted and stored, right?--isn't such a big deal.


It's a "can't stand the heat get of the kitchen" kinda thing or "good for the goose, good for the gander" or "don't dish out what you're not willing to take" kinda thing. 

Those boys who called me a whore in high school got a good laugh and enjoyed themselves immensely ... but when someone looked at them wrong they freaked and started swinging.  Get my drift?


----------



## Andrew Green

It's like colored belts, those that care the most deserve it the least.

You can also still rep people that have it turned off, it's not a one way thing.  The only difference is there current score isn't broadcast to everyone.  Apart from that the same rules apply.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Sukerkin said:


> That's a tough one.
> 
> I concur that everyone we know here will play by the unwritten rules and not bunker down behind the Rep Disabled shield whilst popping out to batter others for the 'fun' of it.
> 
> What to do if someone comes along who wont do that is more problematic - I guess all anyone can do who falls foul of such an event is do what we all should do if the circumstance requires a response - hit the RTM button.
> 
> Oh, and as aside, *Bob*, huge kudos for assigning yourself "Rep Power = 0" :sensei rei:.


Actually, that's cuz I haven't removed some test reps yet, lol. Course, I compensated by giving myself a spiffy new usertitle, lol!


The interesting side effect is, I'm repping folks again.  Haven't done much in about a year or so I think.


----------



## MA-Caver

shesulsa said:


> It's a "can't stand the heat get of the kitchen" kinda thing or "good for the goose, good for the gander" or "don't dish out what you're not willing to take" kinda thing.
> 
> Those boys who called me a whore in high school got a good laugh and enjoyed themselves immensely ... but when someone looked at them wrong they freaked and started swinging.  Get my drift?


Yeah... I think it's called..uh...wait...umm... don't tell me... hip...no, hip-hoc..?... no...uhh...oh yeah... Hypocracy.

Funny thing... rep changes were made (today.. dec 1st) ... and the title says dec 7th or is that what I'm not reading?

Ennyhoo, I do appreciate the fact that in the UserCP all the neat, nice stuff said to me by folks that gave me all of my 6 stars (I managed to get that far before the changes) are still there for me to read... gives me a warm fuzzy...ya know?


----------



## Xue Sheng

Thinking about this a little more and although I would like to see it where if your reps are disabled you should not be able to rep I got to say what difference would it really make if you can rep and then shoot give out bad reps and dont sign them what is the difference. Actually I would like it better if there was an ID with the rep, good or bad


----------



## Kacey

MA-Caver said:


> Funny thing... rep changes were made (today.. dec 1st) ... and the title says dec 7th or is that what I'm not reading?



That was Dec. '07 (as in, 2007), not Dec. 7.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I may do that, but it'll require clearing out old comments.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Kacey said:


> That was Dec. '07 (as in, 2007), not Dec. 7.


 
You see, I was not the only one confused by that


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Side bar: There are more changes coming.  Decembers going to be interesting, and 2008 a wild ride. Some will love it, some will hate it, and I...I will be riding the lightning, *insert Dr. Evil laugh*


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> I may do that, but it'll require clearing out old comments.



Was this an answer to the reps with ID or something completely different?

I it was to the rep with ID I do think that would cut down on a lot of revenge reps and might get rid of a few headaches for you.

Of course other headaches will pop up to replace those headaches eventually


----------



## Kacey

Bob Hubbard said:


> Side bar: There are more changes coming.  Decembers going to be interesting, and 2008 a wild ride. Some will love it, some will hate it, and I...I will be riding the lightning, *insert Dr. Evil laugh*



Thanks for the warning!


----------



## morph4me

Sukerkin said:


> I concur *Drac* - the light of democracy was estinguished and the drabness of the totalitarian hand besmirched all before our eyes.
> 
> Then again, I knew it was an oligarchy when I signed up, so it's no good my complaining about it now when I didn't get my way . Oddly, I do feel inside like I've been demoted from trusted Leftenant to Spear-Carrier Third Class tho'.
> 
> I'll give the new system time to settle but at first glance it's, no pun intended for a change, kind of pointless if I'm reading the above parameters correctly. With my awesome rep power of three I can hand out 'buff's' till doomsday and make not a hair of difference to someones public persona.
> 
> Still, I suppose the comments will still count for the people concerned and that's the most important thing.


 
The lack of visible rep in no way diminishes the respect that you and others have earned here. :asian:


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Side bar: There are more changes coming. Decembers going to be interesting, and 2008 a wild ride. Some will love it, some will hate it, and I...I will be riding the lightning, *insert Dr. Evil laugh*


 
Ride the Lightning 

My fingers grip with fear
What am I doing here?


----------



## michaeledward

shesulsa said:


> Okay, now ... I have a problem with that. If a person doesn't want to play the game then it should be an all-or-nothing system, IMNSHO. If you're going to participate then people should be able to see your rep display - if you're not going to show it to anyone else then you shouldn't have the power to influence other peoples' rep.
> 
> Sorry, but it's an integrity thing for me.


 
Having my green pips disabled never stopped anyone from slamming me ... or praising me. It just made the pips invisible. 

Also, there was also a comment some years back, that when rep was disabled that only purple dots were awarded (or that's how I understood it). That turned out to not be true and I got slammed about that recently too. Which is why I ask the question again now.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Xue Sheng said:


> Was this an answer to the reps with ID or something completely different?
> 
> I it was to the rep with ID I do think that would cut down on a lot of revenge reps and might get rid of a few headaches for you.
> 
> Of course other headaches will pop up to replace those headaches eventually



Reps with ID's.  Making who reped who visible.



michaeledward said:


> Having my green pips disabled never stopped anyone from slamming me ... or praising me. It just made the pips invisible.
> 
> Also, there was also a comment some years back, that when rep was disabled that only purple dots were awarded (or that's how I understood it). That turned out to not be true and I got slammed about that recently too. Which is why I ask the question again now.



We're going to be less tolerant of rep-abuse and I'm going to try to spot check a few times a month. People who think there is abuse going on should keep letting us know.  Seems like we more often than not say theres nothing actionable, but it's all noted.


----------



## exile

Bob Hubbard said:


> Side bar: There are more changes coming.  Decembers going to be interesting, and 2008 a wild ride. Some will love it, some will hate it, and I...I will be riding the lightning, *insert Dr. Evil laugh*



_THUNDER&#8212;_
I can hear the lightning flash&#8212;
Hold to me
Ride the storm...

Somehow,
Even in our darkest hour,
We'll find the power
To _RIDE the storm!!_

&#8212;title song from Dennis Hopper's unknown film masterpiece, _Riders of the Storm_. :EG:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

exile said:


> _THUNDER&#8212;_
> I can hear the lightning flash&#8212;
> Hold to me
> Ride the storm...
> 
> Somehow,
> Even in our darkest hour,
> We'll find the power
> To _RIDE the storm!!_
> 
> &#8212;title song from Dennis Hopper's unknown film masterpiece, _Riders of the Storm_. :EG:


Heh.


----------



## Kreth

Xue Sheng said:


> Ride the Lightning
> 
> My fingers grip with fear
> What am I doing here?



Flash before my eyes
Now it's time to die
Burning in my brain
I can feel the pain

We need a headbanging smiley.


----------



## exile

Kreth said:


> We need a headbanging smiley.



We've _got_ one, no?


----------



## Kreth

exile said:


> We've _got_ one, no?


No, I meant the fun kind of headbanging, not the "frustrated with morons" one... :lol:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

This one?
:headbangin:


----------



## Kreth

Bob Hubbard said:


> This one?
> :headbangin:


Sweet!
Now as to the topic, I just realized that I've been running around without the pasties covering my naughty bits. Excuse me... :uhoh:


----------



## Carol

How about this one...


----------



## Sukerkin

ROCK!!!  :shakes hair like I haven't done since, ooh, well, erm, last month ROFL:.  :cheers:.

Also, I find it surprising, given the general calibre of people we have here at MT, that 'revenge rep'ing' goes on .  If I disagree with someone then I'll tell them (if I think it'll do any good) - giving them negative rep seems a touch futile when it comes to conflict resolution :shrugs:.


----------



## CoryKS

I find it amusing that the founder of MT is "an unknown quantity at this time."  :rofl:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Carol Kaur said:


> How about this one...



:bangahead: added



Sukerkin said:


> ROCK!!!  :shakes hair like I haven't done since, ooh, well, erm, last month ROFL:.  :cheers:.
> 
> Also, I find it surprising, given the general calibre of people we have here at MT, that 'revenge rep'ing' goes on .  If I disagree with someone then I'll tell them (if I think it'll do any good) - giving them negative rep seems a touch futile when it comes to conflict resolution :shrugs:.



I can't do that any more  Dr. orders.  Something about my head will fall off or something. :idunno:



CoryKS said:


> I find it amusing that the founder of MT is "an unknown quantity at this time."  :rofl:



:caffeine:


----------



## Xue Sheng

Carol Kaur said:


> How about this one...


:bangahead:


That is perfect


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> Reps with ID's. Making who reped who visible.


 
Thanks for considering making the Rep-er visible and these :headbangin: :bangahead:


----------



## jks9199

Kreth said:


> Is this something that can be disabled? If you're going to disable rep, you shouldn't be able to affect the rep of others.


I agree; you should be able to comment via giving rep, but it should carry no weight, pro or con.  If rep is disabled, why not just set their rep power to zero automatically?


----------



## Andrew Green

Ok, I think there is a misunderstanding here, probably due to the terms used.

Rep is not "dissabled", it is "invisible"

Think of it like that and it makes more sense.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Andrew Green said:


> Ok, I think there is a misunderstanding here, probably due to the terms used.
> 
> Rep is not "dissabled", it is "invisible"
> 
> Think of it like that and it makes more sense.


I blame vB.


----------



## Xue Sheng

Bob Hubbard said:


> I blame vB.


 
VB or VB.net :uhyeah:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Yes?  LOL!


----------



## exile

Kreth said:


> No, I meant the fun kind of headbanging, not the "frustrated with morons" one... :lol:



Ah, _now_ yer talking! It should be easy... just take the one I displayed, the moron-frustration one, and modify it so the face is smiling and laughing deleriously, but doing exactly the same thing! :lol:


----------



## Rich Parsons

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Rep has been reset and good riddance!



I agree.


----------



## Dronak

Since I'm not in here a lot anymore, it looks like I'm pretty late in hearing about this.  I was looking for info on the casino cash feature, and saw this one along the way.  And it looks like the reset has already been made.  However, I did want to agree with this post:



Sukerkin said:


> Most of us can only craft posts worthy of positive reputation rarely and, similarly, most of us make our better and more profound posts early in our membership.



Because the teacher I used to take lessons with during grad school left the country, we couldn't sustain the club anymore and it broke up.  That's left me to practice on my own, which I don't do a lot.  I try to keep up with tai chi, to varying degrees of success, but haven't done long fist in a very long time.  These are some of the reasons I don't read or post here very much; my activity in MA has decreased compared to years ago.  If the reputation system is reset, I'll lose the relatively small amount of points/power I received so far, and I probably won't gain any of it back.  I know it's supposed to be a fun, and hopefully balanced, system, but it's kind of disappointing to know your history is being reset when it's unlikely that you'll be able to restore it.  Oh well.  I didn't read the ~25 pages of the thread, but saw this one on the first page and thought it was right, so I felt like posting and agreeing with it.


----------



## exile

Dronak said:


> Since I'm not in here a lot anymore, it looks like I'm pretty late in hearing about this.  I was looking for info on the casino cash feature, and saw this one along the way.  And it looks like the reset has already been made.  However, I did want to agree with this post:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the teacher I used to take lessons with during grad school left the country, we couldn't sustain the club anymore and it broke up.  That's left me to practice on my own, which I don't do a lot.  I try to keep up with tai chi, to varying degrees of success, but haven't done long fist in a very long time.  These are some of the reasons I don't read or post here very much; my activity in MA has decreased compared to years ago.  If the reputation system is reset, I'll lose the relatively small amount of points/power I received so far, and I probably won't gain any of it back.  I know it's supposed to be a fun, and hopefully balanced, system, but it's kind of disappointing to know your history is being reset when it's unlikely that you'll be able to restore it.  Oh well.  I didn't read the ~25 pages of the thread, but saw this one on the first page and thought it was right, so I felt like posting and agreeing with it.



Dronak, check here and you'll find that if you had visible rep > 100 pts, your previous accumulated rep should be enshrined amongst the top 15% (roughly) of MT members. It's nothing to feel bad about, I don't think. At the time of the reset I was the rep leader with 16 gold stars and some change, and there were a number of people hot on my heels, as you can see from the link I gave; but it's still just as much fun, and just as informative and helpful in sorting out my own thinking, to post now as it was before. And I think that most of the rep leaders who've seen their long chains of gold stars replaced by a few dark green pips would say the same. If you stay around and post more, you'll probably find that you still have plenty of useful things to say, and it might inspire you to reenergize your MA interests... and really, that's one of the main points of the whole thing, no?


----------



## Laurentkd

yeah, I think Exile said that he didn't think he would be able to come up with "rep worthy" posts after the reset, and already I think he leads the pack!


----------



## exile

Laurentkd said:


> yeah, I think Exile said that he didn't think he would be able to come up with "rep worthy" posts after the reset, and already I think he leads the pack!



Probably just my basic bleakness of outlook sneaking out for a moment there, Lauren. I'm always having to watch for that...

I think a lot of people feel that they did their best thinking sometime in the past, that their energies and enthusiasms have diminished and been worn out, and it's all downhill from here. You must have had the experience of finding something you'd written ten years earlier and thinking... why can't I do that anymore? I used to do that when I was in my forties with stuff I'd done as an undergraduate, and now I do it with stuff that I wrote in my forties, lol. So I've come to the conclusion that in reality, we don't necessarily wind up going to the dogs after a certain point, and I'm still seeing great posts from the people who were great posted pre-reset. But I do think there's a temptation to _see_ ourselves as going downhill, when the truth is probably that our best work is still ahead of us, no matter how old we are...


----------



## kidswarrior

I understand all the reasoning that went into the reset, and of course it's none of my business anyway--not my board. But I keep thinking of a couple of analogies from my own experience that best helps me understand why it feels like such a heavy blow.

First, I recall climbing the ladder in the military. The Navy is slightly unique among the branches, in that you have to complete leadership courses for petty officer rankings, and written exams indicating proficiency in your rating-specific area. The results along with personal evals determine who gets considered for a select number of billets that are open. Having worked like crazy to get to E-5 during my one enlistment (equivalent to sergeant in the other services), it would have been pretty demoralizing to have had a 'reset' and have to start all over again.

Decades later, the martial arts journey is analogous. Putting in the blood, sweat and tears of practice, getting *up* for each test, and then waiting for someone else to tell me I was good enough to pass, forged a rich background that I can call on now. But if I had to reset that and start over at white belt (which actually I have done several times in different arts along the way in order to cross train), it wouldn't be the same. Yes, I'd still have the experience, skill and knowledge for myself, but new students (those with less than two or three years in the art) wouldn't see me the same way. _They _can't watch someone move and just figure out from that who's who, so this argument when I hear it carries no weight with me.

Now this is not meant to be sour grapes at what I could have had/kept without the reset. As always, _I_ know what I'm fairly good at, and what I still need to work on (at my age, I'd better, before it's too late to work on anything ). But what I really miss is being able to make a difference for someone else. With a few stars, I could rep someone and maybe make their day. With my current 'power', can't get past the embarrassment of giving someone two whole points and so find I don't rep anyone, except a few old friends whom I know really are interested in my comments. Just too humiliating. 

So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.


----------



## jks9199

kidswarrior said:


> Now this is not meant to be sour grapes at what I could have had/kept without the reset. As always, _I_ know what I'm fairly good at, and what I still need to work on (at my age, I'd better, before it's too late to work on anything ). But what I really miss is being able to make a difference for someone else. With a few stars, I could rep someone and maybe make their day. With my current 'power', can't get past the embarrassment of giving someone two whole points and so find I don't rep anyone, except a few old friends whom I know really are interested in my comments. Just too humiliating.
> 
> So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.


 
Your "puny 2 points" is the same as many others.  There are only a handful of people that I've noticed that are even close to 10 points, and even fewer above 10.  Rep away; it's a level playing field.

And, I personally like to here the comments... even those who disagree.


----------



## theletch1

jks9199 said:


> Your "puny 2 points" is the same as many others. There are only a handful of people that I've noticed that are even close to 10 points, and even fewer above 10. Rep away; it's a level playing field.
> 
> *And, I personally like to here the comments... even those who disagree.[/*quote]
> 
> Yep, it's the comments that mean the most to me and they aren't viewable by the rest of the members here.  The pips and stars were simply a badge for the public.  I've worked very hard to let the ego go and believe I've made progress.  Read my posts, decide whether or not it has merit on it's own and the pips and stars shouldn't matter.


----------



## arnisador

Responding to *kidswarrior*: 
A certain ennui sets in after years of seeing the same questions asked. How many times can you bring yourself to answer "What's the best martial art for self-defense?" in the full detail such a question needs? In my case, I wrote a lot when the board was growing so there'd be content and signs of activity--book reviews, mini-essays--but being no longer on staff I simply don't have the motivation to do so any more. I get the concern about one's most noteworthy posts being in the past, when all was new.

Still, if you wish, take the reset as a challenge to "empty your cup" and see these things with a fresh eye. Honestly, maybe it's just my biases showing, but I think average post quality/content has increased slightly since the reset, for all the reasons indicated here. That's a good thing!


----------



## morph4me

kidswarrior said:


> Now this is not meant to be sour grapes at what I could have had/kept without the reset. As always, _I_ know what I'm fairly good at, and what I still need to work on (at my age, I'd better, before it's too late to work on anything ). But what I really miss is being able to make a difference for someone else. With a few stars, I could rep someone and maybe make their day. With my current 'power', can't get past the embarrassment of giving someone two whole points and so find I don't rep anyone, except a few old friends whom I know really are interested in my comments. Just too humiliating.
> 
> So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.


 
I recently recieved rep from someone that had no points to give and didn't even sign who it was from, and it meant as much to me as if it were given by someone with 20 points. Please don't stop reppng people out of embarrassment, the comments mean more than the rep does.


----------



## donna

morph4me said:


> I recently recieved rep from someone that had no points to give and didn't even sign who it was from, and it meant as much to me as if it were given by someone with 20 points. Please don't stop reppng people out of embarrassment, *the comments mean more than the rep does.*


*
*

I totally agree. I find myself reading the comments over when I am having a bad day, and hearing someone value/agree with , what I have to say gives me a real lift.


----------



## Sukerkin

I don't think that it behoves us much to air this further but it is hard to not feel a little deflated when you go from 'Top Ten' status to 'Are you on the chart?'.

But done is done and it speaks good volumes about the board as a whole that those of the membership who 'lost' a lot (and saw others catapult past them into the rep stratosphere for no reason we can fathom) are still here.

Bitter? Well, yes, in a way.  It is unhappiness over the loss of a representation of something intangible in the end - those always hit the hardest because how can you replace a 'thing' that never had 'mass' in the first place?

As an adjunct to this, has anyone seen a change in the 'rep' current because of it?  I have to say that in some ways I have and yet in others not.  I still rep away when I'm allowed by the system when I have nothing to add to a discourse but want to commend someone for saying what I would've done.  The other (in-flowing) shoe hasn't fallen yet tho', to merrily mismatch aphorisms - other than the pleasant fact that I have seen rep comments from people who have previously stayed 'hands-off' because of their status as 'heavy-hitters'.

That *is* a big positive from the change, I admit but, honestly, I shall never be fully reconciled with my 'history' being expunged.  I guess it's because I was a historian and what happened in the past is always going to be important ot me .


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I've made checks of what's been happening every couple of days since the reset.  What I've seen is more rep with comments, and a lot more serious stuff in there, than before.  I haven't seen very much of the "hey hotness" and "cuz I care" and "you were next in line" type comments.  

As to points not mattering, each point counts...now more than before. 
Case in point, there's enough power between this and my last post here to almost bump me up another box. Those 2 points might be all it takes.

By the same token, no one here can raise you up 5 levels or knock you down 5 levels in 1 shot anymore.  On bad day won't destroy you and make you a pariah.

As to being tallked out on things, and not having anything new good to give.....please, don't slam yourself like that.  If anyone should be talked out, it's me and Arni and a dozen other "old timers" here...yet we keep on going.  There's always something new to say, a new way to look at things, a new angle to play with or explore. Hell, switch sides and argue con where you would normally go pro and see how that expands your perspective.  Like training, sometimes, it's good to clear the mind and see with childs eyes again.


----------



## exile

And again, I think it's important to for people to reassure themselves that the past hasn't really been expunged; as per my post to dronak, the glorious pre-reset record has been immortalized in the FAQ section at http://martialtalk.com/hirep2007.htm. All those stars are still blazing.... I think there was some talk, somewhere, about people who had earned stars in the previous regime getting a special icon as part of their headers... Bob, is there any more info on this, or was it just a rumor? (I seem to recall it being in one of _your_ posts, but I've learned the hard way that false memory syndrome is one of the downsides of living to see a sufficient number of birthdays...)


----------



## terryl965

I for do not care I write and say what I have always said. My abilities speak for themself along with my knowledge and believe me those of you that know me know I know something about nothing but have agreat time anyway.

I am one that lost alot and I for one do care about what people think of me, but on the other side of the coin the only person that matter to me are my students and family and I guess also GOD since he will be the final say around here or any where else.


I really hope we can move past this and carry on, I have alot of POst Whoring to do to catch Bob.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

There's something in the works that'll be going in next year that'll include a badge.


----------



## Kreth

Bob Hubbard said:


> There's something in the works that'll be going in next year that'll include a badge.


Something like this:









:uhyeah:


----------



## arnisador

Bob Hubbard said:


> There's something in the works that'll be going in next year that'll include a badge.



...and a gun?

(Or even a knife...I'm an FMAer!)


----------



## kidswarrior

Kreth said:


> Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :uhyeah:


OK, I get the message. End of discussion on my part.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

ok...I'm going to do something I try to do very rarely in the public sections....and that's rant a bit.

This reputation system was supposed to be something fun. Almost immediately, I got hammered about it. Something about it always tended to piss off someone. Cowards hid their cracks behind the anonymity it allowed, people used it as a PM system, others used it to take shots at the couple of folks they didn't like, and would boost people who hadn't signed on in months, just so they could take another crack at someone again. 

Every last bleeding attempt to right things has been met with pms, public complaints, and phone calls about the damn thing, this last time included. I've had in a few cases hour long conversations on the so called "integrity" of the system, why it's "so important", why it shouldn't have been reset, etc. 

Hour long phone calls, about a message board feature.

I want to know something here....for those folks who really really are so pissed off about this reset and the changes, and the loss of those damn stars.

Do you have your kindergarden finger paintings with the gold star hanging on your wall?
How about 1st grade when you got the red sticker?
Your grade school diploma?
2nd year High School report card?
Ever convert your paycheck into Yen or Lira, declare yourself a Millionaire, put on a bathrobe, grab a bubble pipe and start calling your friends "old man" and mention you were off to the "club"?
Is your LaserTag score sheet laminated and hanging on the wall above your kids pictures?

Sheesh.

Look, lose the points, the dots, the stars, the fancy badges.....

Are any of you any less of a person? Do you honestly think that the people who've been here and come up with you are suddenly going to look at you and go "Gee, Charlie doesn't have his gold star anymore. He must suck now so I can't talk to him or invite him over for tea and beatings."?

You really think that you've got nothing left to give, to offer, to say?
Are you dead?  Been decapitated? Gotten a lobotomy in your spare time?

Wake up, you're all better than that.



As to the post count, it's another meaningless number. All it says is, so-n-so made "X" posts. It says nothing about the quality of those posts.
10,000 posts saying "I agree" or "bump" or "anything new here" or "" don't mean a damned thing. There's no quality to them, they're fluff.
I'll take 100 posts on a technique, or history, or seminar reviews, or arguing over who shot first Han or Greedo over 10,000 "bump"'s.
Those are the guys and gals -I- rep.

You want to see folks really cry and raise a huge public stink?
I can un-count all posts made in non-art sections.
No points for staff posts in the staff areas.
No points for the Study
...or the Locker Room......or the B&G.
Want to see counts drop in half, like a rock on a Gas Giant?
And an outcry so large, you'd think I was driving around the country doing obscene things to cattle?


But, I won't.  I changed it to count everything so that people would know how active they'd been, and trusted the rep system, report system, peer pressure and such would take care of the quality side of things.  We funneled certain types of conversation into certain areas, so those who are more social than scholastic can enjoy the site, and steered the art sections so that they'd be more scholastic than casual conversation.  We've put in tons of tweaks, toys, etc.


But, if it's really that important that you can rep someone and give them 10 gold stars in 1 shot then I'll reset the system so that everyone hits for 100,000,000 points at a time.  When Max-Int on the server's hit, you can brag about having 10ex9999 reputation, and 10 pages of gold stars between each post.

It'll be worth as much as that coupon from McDonalds, but it'll be a big number with lots of stars and look impressive.


See, I'm tired of it all.  The complaints, the complaints about the complaints, the people who I otherwise respect and in many cases admire, getting so bent out of shape over this whole mess, from all sides of the argument.  I'm tired of it all, and getting too old for this stuff anymore.  

It's reset.
You're all the same people now as you were then.
The old records are archived so for those it matters to, they can refer to it.
If the award system I'm looking at works as indicated, the top 100 will get something, unless they've told me not to list them.
The playing field's level, and those who had the points before are already picking em up again, like I expected.
Old comments are archived.


What more can I do?


----------



## Drac

I dont know the secret to success, but I do know the secret to failure..*Try to please everybody..*Jeeze, I was real upset about the re-set and grumbled about it , but what's done is done..It's gone and ain't coming back., *DEAL WITH IT*..Now if you come up with 4 or 5 pounds of 100 dollar bills maybe you can buy MT from Bob and run things the way you want..Cut the guy some slack folks....


----------



## MJS

Well, after the last go around with the rep system, I was originally going to stay out of this one, but changed my mind.  I've said this before and it bears repeating.  Since I've been here, I have less posts that some, and had less stars than some.  Did that bother me?  Honestly, I really didn't care.  Did I like it when I was positive repped for a post and I saw that I got bumped up a few green or gold pips?  Sure.  But at the end of the day, I was still the same person.  My focus was not a race to the finish with post count or fancy stars.  It was to make quality posts and do my best to start good discussion.  See, in the long run, that is what makes a forum run.  Sure, some of the 'bells and whistles' are fun, but after a while, it loses its flavor.  MT isn't going to shut down if we don't have an arcade.  Its not going to shut down because the rep system was revamped.  Its going to shut down when the focus of what this place is all about, is lost.  

I've personally spoken to Bob a few times.  I know that he loves this place, and busts his rear to make it the best MA forum around.  No matter what the change, no matter what the addition, no one will ever be 100% satisfied.  But, thats par for the course.  

As I said, and Bob hit on it in his post as well...its the meat that keeps things going folks, nothing else.


----------



## Drac

MJS said:


> Well, after the last go around with the rep system, I was originally going to stay out of this one, but changed my mind. I've said this before and it bears repeating. Since I've been here, I have less posts that some, and had less stars than some. Did that bother me? Honestly, I really didn't care. Did I like it when I was positive repped for a post and I saw that I got bumped up a few green or gold pips? Sure. But at the end of the day, I was still the same person. My focus was not a race to the finish with post count or fancy stars. It was to make quality posts and do my best to start good discussion. See, in the long run, that is what makes a forum run. Sure, some of the 'bells and whistles' are fun, but after a while, it loses its flavor. MT isn't going to shut down if we don't have an arcade. Its not going to shut down because the rep system was revamped. Its going to shut down when the focus of what this place is all about, is lost.
> 
> I've personally spoken to Bob a few times. I know that he loves this place, and busts his rear to make it the best MA forum around. No matter what the change, no matter what the addition, no one will ever be 100% satisfied. But, thats par for the course.
> 
> As I said, and Bob hit on it in his post as well...its the meat that keeps things going folks, nothing else.


 
Well said Mike....


----------



## Lisa

Bob Hubbard said:


> It's reset.
> You're all the same people now as you were then.
> The old records are archived so for those it matters to, they can refer to it.
> If the award system I'm looking at works as indicated, the top 100 will get something, unless they've told me not to list them.
> The playing field's level, and those who had the points before are already picking em up again, like I expected.
> Old comments are archived.
> 
> 
> * What more can I do?*



Not a damn thing.  And I must say I am surprised that its December 17th and its still being complained about.  Its done, Its over and the sun will come up tomorrow.  

Bob has done everything in his power to try and make everyone happy and it irks the crap outta me to see him feeling he has to defend himself and the decisions he makes to make this place so damn great, yet again.

We are all adults, right?  Or at least reasonable facsimiles?  Time to move on peeps.  Christmas is coming, our nations have some serious problems we could be discussing as does the rest of the world.  There are some great techniques being posted, videos being shown and experienced people on this forum ready and willing to share their knowledge.  Lets concentrate on that and let this old dog die already.


----------



## shesulsa

.


----------



## terryl965

Lisa said:


> Not a damn thing. And I must say I am surprised that its December 17th and its still being complained about. Its done, Its over and the sun will come up tomorrow.
> 
> Bob has done everything in his power to try and make everyone happy and it irks the crap outta me to see him feeling he has to defend himself and the decisions he makes to make this place so damn great, yet again.
> 
> We are all adults, right? Or at least reasonable facsimiles? Time to move on peeps. Christmas is coming, our nations have some serious problems we could be discussing as does the rest of the world. There are some great techniques being posted, videos being shown and experienced people on this forum ready and willing to share their knowledge. Lets concentrate on that and let this old dog die already.


 
Very well put Lisa and Chewy, I will concur with ZBob there is no way and no how to make everybody happy, so now I must go back to my new quest and that is to be the Ultimate Post Whore and catch Arni. and Bob. Now back to the quest


----------



## 14 Kempo

terryl965 said:


> Very well put Lisa and Chewy, I will concur with ZBob there is no way and no how to make everybody happy, so now I must go back to my new quest and that is to be the Ultimate Post Whore and catch Arni. and Bob. Now back to the quest


 
I, too, agree. If there is one thing in life that holds true, it is change. Change in inevitable. There has been a change, accept it and move on. Bob and his staff have done a fantastic job with this board, that is the reason why I am here and I'm sure the same holds true for most others. Catch you all in the forums!


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## Xue Sheng

Wow, dont pay attention to a post for awhile and look what happens, not that me paying attention to it would make any difference it is just I cant believe this is actually an issue



Bob Hubbard said:


> Do you have your kindergarden finger paintings with the gold star hanging on your wall?



Well YEAH you got a problem with thatHUH!!!! :rpo: :uhyeah:



Bob Hubbard said:


> Ever convert your paycheck into Yen or Lira, declare yourself a Millionaire, put on a bathrobe, grab a bubble pipe and start calling your friends "old man" and mention you were off to the "club"?



No but that is pretty Damn funny. :lol:

I have converted it to Yuan to see how much it is worth though but the rest I have not done, but I am now considering the bubble pipe. 

Nice rant Bob :bangahead:

Now I have a question for those that have issue here, What is the big Damn deal. It is an electronic rating given to you on a webpage that is for all intensive purposes absolutely MEANINGLESS any place except that webpage. It certainly is not going to increase your credit rating or do you any damn good in court. And if you use it as some sort of justification of your martial arts worth, rank and ability than that is well I think you get the picture.


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## Laurentkd

I just want to say "Thanks Bob!" 
I am sure this site is not an easy one to manage, but the hard work you put in makes it the best I have found on the internet.  
Too often the people who are upset are the ones who are the loudest, so I just wanted to through some positive energy your way. 
I appreciate everything you do for MT and I hope you keep it up!
Thank you sir.


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## exile

Well, you know people gripe. It's one of the ways we can tell we're still alive: something is bothering us. _Whingeo, ergo sum_. But the fact is that everyone who was doing active posting before the reset is doing it now as well. _Everyone_ (by my count). So when you look at actions&#8212;and taking time from whatever you're doing to sit down, read a number of threads, think about what people are saying and respond counts as an action in my book&#8212;rather than words (expressions of distress or dissatisfaction or whatever)&#8212;you really have to conclude that pretty much everyone is going on as before, which means, no one can be really _that_ unhappy. We know what happens to members who get really unhappy about something or other: they quit, or stop posting, or start posting extremely intermittently, or get distinctly sour in their posts, and I don't see any of that happening.

The evidence is that whatever has been bugging people about the reset, it doesn't make much of difference in how they function on the board, as reflected by their actions. Which is a Good Thing, eh?! So now, on with the show...


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## LawDog

Don't worry about all of the dots and stars, like with the black belt dan ranking, your knowledge and ability will show the truth not all of those lil stars or stripes.
Time to move on and back to our net working.


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## terryl965

LawDog said:


> Don't worry about all of the dots and stars, like with the black belt dan ranking, your knowledge and ability will show the truth not all of those lil stars or stripes.
> Time to move on and back to our net working.


 
I agree whole heartily


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## MarkBarlow

Time for me to display my fundamental ignorance.  How are rep powers increased?  I'm O.K. with having them or not having them, the conversation is the important thing to me but I'm curious as to how it's decreased or increased.


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## Carol

Mr. Barlow,

Rep _powers _are increased by time spent as a member (1 point per year) and number of posts (1 point per thousand posts). 

That figure is then increased or decreased by an amount that is a percentage of your overall reputation _score_.  Your rep _score _is displayed with the colored dots.  Your rep _power _(how much you can influence another person's score) is what is spelled out (Rep Power: 11)

Does that make sense?  Please ask for clarification if it doesn't...I'm running a fever right now and I'm not sure how coherent I am sounding.


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## exile

Carol Kaur said:


> ...I'm running a fever right now and I'm not sure how coherent I am sounding.



Get well soon, Carol... sounds like if you do have to get sick, this is maybe the best time to do it, given the current weather in New England, but don't overdo it! Hope you kick this thing asap....


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## MarkBarlow

[Does that make sense?  Please ask for clarification if it doesn't...I'm running a fever right now and I'm not sure how coherent I am sounding. [/quote]

It makes perfect sense.  Thanks for taking the time to explain and I hope you get to feeling better soon.


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## jks9199

arnisador said:


> Originally Posted by Bob Hubbard
> There's something in the works that'll be going in next year that'll include a badge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...and a gun?
> 
> (Or even a knife...I'm an FMAer!)
Click to expand...


But... 

I already have a badge!

And a gun!

And handcuffs, too!


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## Drac

jks9199 said:


> But...
> 
> I already have a badge!
> 
> And a gun!
> 
> And handcuffs, too!


 
Me too....


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## terryl965

Drac said:


> Me too....


 

Well I don't and I want one.


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## jim777

Kreth said:


> Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :uhyeah:


 
That's funny :lol: 
I was a bit surprised myself to see my meager rep go away, but I got over it  It does seem to me the people who had the most definitely deserved it, by being as helpful as they are all the time. And not having tons of it doesn't make you a bad person, as I can attest myself :lol:

Anyway, this a great site with hundreds of good folks and that's why I keep coming back here; not the opportunity to get a star someday. I fully expect to get my black belt before I get a gold star! 

jim


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## Dronak

I apologize for bringing up the topic 2 weeks after the change was already made.  I didn't mean to complain (and wasn't trying to) or cause any problems.  I had missed the real discussion because of my low activity here, and since the topic wasa still high on the page and not that old, I thought I'd comment.  In the future, I will try to avoid commenting on anything that's already done and finished.  Once again, sorry for any trouble my post may have caused.


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## terryl965

Dronak said:


> I apologize for bringing up the topic 2 weeks after the change was already made. I didn't mean to complain (and wasn't trying to) or cause any problems. I had missed the real discussion because of my low activity here, and since the topic wasa still high on the page and not that old, I thought I'd comment. In the future, I will try to avoid commenting on anything that's already done and finished. Once again, sorry for any trouble my post may have caused.


 
Dronak please never feel like you cannot express yourself here. It was nothing against you but alot of sour grape are out there and need to be dispose of by those carring them. I for one am glad of the reset and look forward to the Badge and gun that Bob has promised us.


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## Dronak

terryl965 said:


> Dronak please never feel like you cannot express yourself here.



I don't, but my post was supposed to be basically "rats, but oh well" -- not a big deal, just a little disappointment and acceptance of the change.  After seeing all of the stuff that followed it, I'm kind of sorry I posted it though.  I didn't think my post would lead to all of that.


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## arnisador

Well, it's good to see you posting again!


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## Tames D

terryl965 said:


> Dronak please never feel like you cannot express yourself here. It was nothing against you but alot of sour grape are out there and need to be dispose of by those carring them. I for one am glad of the reset and look forward to the *Badge and gun* that Bob has promised us.


 
What about the handcuffs. I want the handcuffs...


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## Kacey

As has been said by other people - I am much more interested in the comments than the points.  Stars are nice, stars are pretty - I come here for the conversation about a topic in which I have a great deal of interest, and while I appreciate the feedback, I look for comments more so I know if I have been clear in what I posted than anything else - not so I can rack up stars.

I have had great conversations and made friends - that's what's important to me.

Bob spends an incredible amount of time and energy running this board, and all it seems to get him is grief.  I wish to say, here and now, and _publicly_, how much I appreciate the time and effort he puts into this board.  :asian:


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## shesulsa

Ya want handcuffs?  *I* got _handcuffs_. :EG:


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## Tames D

shesulsa said:


> Ya want handcuffs? *I* got _handcuffs_. :EG:


 
Why Shesulsa... I had no idea...


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## Dr John M La Tourrette

Kacey said:


> As has been said by other people - I am much more interested in the comments than the points. Stars are nice, stars are pretty - I come here for the conversation about a topic in which I have a great deal of interest, and while I appreciate the feedback, I look for comments more so I know if I have been clear in what I posted than anything else - not so I can rack up stars.


 
Nice.

Being consider to be the "good guy" and getting a gold star is highly over-rated especially when the ones that are "judging" are  normally judging on their "good" or "bad" feelings, and not on the information.

World Class Basketball Coach John Wooden put in nicely when he said, "I had learned at South Bend Central that when teams elect their own captain, it generally becomes a popularity contest. Popularity, in my opinion, is NOT one of the essentials of leadership".

Marketing genius Dan Kennedy said something very similar. "If you've not pissed someone off by lunch, then you are not doing much".

His emphasis was on "doing what YOU knew was necessary and NOT following the herd".

And one of the few ways to learn from others is to communicate with others about what you love to do and want to learn more of.

To me, that is one of the prime reasons for belonging to any group. When that function is no longer valid, then being a member is no longer necessary.

And it is fun to share and to learn, is it not?

Dr. John M. La Tourrette


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## morph4me

Kacey said:


> Bob spends an incredible amount of time and energy running this board, and all it seems to get him is grief. I wish to say, here and now, and _publicly_, how much I appreciate the time and effort he puts into this board. :asian:


 
I second that. Here's to ya Bob :cheers:


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## terryl965

morph4me said:


> I second that. Here's to ya Bob :cheers:


 

I willl third it then


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## newGuy12




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