# Gou Ronin's Banning.....



## Bob Hubbard

I've had a number of people ask me 'Why is Gou banned?'

I even had one person tell me to 'grow up, it was just a joke.  Wheres the harm?'.

Gou Ronin published his password in at least 2 locations with the invitation for people to go 'have fun'.  He even encouraged the anarchy that followed.


> Partial Chat Log
> 18:42:37 GouRonin enters this room
> 18:43:57 [GouRonin] The password for my martial talk account is "dougie"
> 18:44:14 [GouRonin] So if you have anyone you want to insult go have fun!
> 18:44:50 [GouRonin] I like chaos
> 18:45:04 [GouRonin] It keeps everyone on their toes.
> 18:45:26 [GouRonin] So use my account to be as much of a jackass as you want.
> 18:47:40 [GouRonin] I just decided to give away my password to see what would happen



Over 1 dozen obsene and otherwise offensive messages and signatures were posted in a short time frame by this 'army of gou'.  According to IP address, they all came from Gou's PC. I know in fact thats not true, however, as far as the evidence indicates, they did.

With that said, Gou Ronin did willingly attempt to create an anarchy type situation on this forum. This caused a major headache to myself, and the staff of this board, not to mention alot of confusion to those not 'in on the joke'.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone loves Gou.  Whose *** would take the fall if someone using his account were to have posted Child Porn, or other such obsene images?  Or emailed out such? 

"But its not against the rules." It is now.  We started this place with 10 simple rules...10 lines of text.  I think wee're up to several pages.  Why?  Because everytime I think something was covered under 'common sence', stuff like this happens and we have to get specific.

I believe this forum is one of the best out there, due in no small part to the contributions of its members. I very rarely play the 'my forum' card.  This time, I will.

This is -MY- forum. Gou as well as the other 1500+ members are guests here. I pay the bills, I provide the server space, I put in the hundreds and hundreds of hours in maintaining, promoting, and improving this place.  I don't ask for much in return...just treat it right.  Share and Enjoy.

In the last 30 days I've been called a Nazi, a Communist, an *******, a Gestapo, and even worse.  I've had at least 3 knives shoved in my back by people who I didnt think would do such things.  I was told I need a vacation..ya know what? I was on a short break when this crap went down....


To those people who think I'm being ungrateful for everything Gous done, or think I'm over reacting....put yourself in my shoes for a few minutes. You think I'd boot someone I considered a friend, and a long term valued member over something trivial?

Anyone who wants their account removed to 'protest' my 'unfair' treatment of Gou, please feel free to contact me. At least show some decency by being upfront about it.

I've heard rumors of at least 2 new forums going up so that Gou doesnt have to face this 'persecution' any more or our heavy-handed moderation. Hey, good luck to ya.  Seriously.


This is not Rec.Martial-Arts.  This is not any of a hundred other forums out there that allow anarchy to reign free.  We try to provide a friendly, free enviroment with a minimum of heavy moderation.  Crap like this just forces us to do heavier modertion of things.  You wanna just say/do whatever, however?  Wanna post nudes, and porn, and talk trash n swear like a truck driver?  Wanna be internet 'keyboard warriors'?
Go somewhere else. 

:soapbox:


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## Michael Billings

Was this in the new "Chat Room" or out here on the Forum?

-Michael


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## Elfan

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *Was this in the new "Chat Room" or out here on the Forum?
> 
> -Michael *



Both.


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## Michael Billings

I guess you reap what you sow.  There is good and bad in Gou's posts obviously.  Passion for the good and bad.  

Is this a suspension or is he "expelled" permanently?  I just have not seen this in the almost year, that I have been here.  Furthermore, how is it enforcable without someone checking every IP address ... assuming he has a static IP, which I guess, most people do not?

-Michael


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## Phil Elmore

Bob,

For what it's worth, I think you made the right call as an administrator.


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## Bob Hubbard

> *From Gou*
> Subject: Re: I can't belive they are doing this to you!!!!
> 
> Bob. I dunno what the heck is going on but would you tell people to stop e-mailing me about all this?
> 
> It's just a forum. I don't understand why there is all this soap opera drama about this.
> 
> I did it. You decided to ban me. I am ok with that. Your call.
> 
> Jeezus... resignations, offers of forums, really, this is just silly.
> 
> 
> ?
> =/


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## Bob Hubbard

Bans are usually permanent.  Theres not much I can do easily to prevent him from accessing the board.  The account is disabled.  Sometimes depending on the situation, I also do IP based blockings.  As an example, due to abuses from 1 user some time ago, I have blocked off 3 major ISPs in Saudi Arabia, effectivly removing that country from being able to access MartialTalk.

I don't issue bans lightly.  I prefer to be a more laid-back guy...its less stressful on us follically-impared folks.


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## pesilat

I know Gou Ronin personally and like him. But I would say that you did the right thing.

Mike


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## jaybacca72

listen i like both of you guys ,but banned well that is a little harsh because if it weren't for gou and all the people he told about ma talk you probably wouldn't have the board that you do.sure he causes havoc sometimes but he also has had major input on your board. problem with dougie is he gets bored very easily and sometimes lets his free time get the better of his descisions,i don't agree with the banning bob you could have easily contacted him and said lay off just as easily.as far as porn and the other worries you had that is bull,you know doug better than that.
still your just a little miffed.
jay


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## Yari

I just wanted say I agree 100% with banning Gou. Not that that I know him , or had any controverses with him.

But the thing (opening his account and incuraging to undermine the board) isn't correct. It would undermine all the good work done here.

Even though I dont agree with everbody on the board it's a good place and I want it to stay that way!

BR
Yari


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## Jill666

I have usually enjoyed reading Doug's posts, and sometimes found them quite informative.

However, for the short time that anarchy ruled the other night, I was particularly sickened by one of the signatures and a post from his account. Both Kirk and Kaith took a personal hit, and the signature was poking fun of child molestation. I was one person who contacted Kaith and told him to deal with it immediately. 

Jay I don't know if you read what was posted, and if not, I can understand you thinking the banning was a little harsh. 

Giving away your password to see what happens is actually kind of funny in theory- and it could have resulted in a funny thread. (rules aside, ok?) But the results weren't funny, just stupid.

I'm not interested in "chosing sides". This is not a schoolyard. I come here for information and to be entertained.


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## MountainSage

The only name I've call Kaith, under my breath, is leftist liberal.  I hope that's not an exterme insult.


Mountian Sage


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yari _
> *I just wanted say I agree 100% with banning Gou. Not that that I know him , or had any controverses with him.
> 
> But the thing (opening his account and incuraging to undermine the board) isn't correct. It would undermine all the good work done here.
> 
> Even though I dont agree with everbody on the board it's a good place and I want it to stay that way!
> 
> BR
> Yari *



ditto.  He was just asking for it.


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## Bob Hubbard

'Leftist Liberal"?  and I always thought I was a 'Rightious Dude'.   No worries there MS. 


Jay, you dont agree with it, I dont like it, but I was left with little choice.   This is a business...not Dougs personal playground.  I'm not a babysitter who can sit here and watch everytime someone has a few beers n decides to play kids games.

Tell ya what..if you dont think its a big deal...please, post up the following info:
Your credit card number and PIN
Leave the keys in your car with a sigh "have fun" on the seat. (Gee, guess whos liable for all those traffic tickets?)
Your ISP account and password.
The account info for your Hotmail or Yahoo account.

The only people complaining about it being unfair are Dougs friends.  -EVERY- board admin that I've asked about this said I was in the right. 

For the record...lets recap some of what was posted as signatures:
"Joe Fosters my dad"
"I like Jizz"
"Kirks mothers a whore and Kaith likes Balls across the chin"
"I like little boys"
"I like it in the ***"
and several others that I can't recall off the top of my head.

Every IP addess points it straight at Gou being the poster, even though I've heard from reliable people that he was no where near a PC while the 'fun' was going on.

I have a legal obligation to the 15% of our members who are under 16 to keep such things off the board.


As to Doug getting a little bored, and just wanting to have fun...well..maybe he should hit the dojo a bit harder then, rather than make me go frantic trying to figure out if we've been hacked.

I take security seriously.  My concerns were bull?  Sorry Jay, if you hang your phone out the window so folks can get free phone, and someone makes harrassing calls, guess whos *** is on the line?  Yours as owner of the phone.  As they lock you up they will just tell ya you shouldn't have been such a dumb-***.


As to Gou building this board...yup, theres about 20-30 folks here who heard it from him.  Theres about 100 that heard about it from Tim Hartman.  If Tim pulled this stunt, he would have gotten the same.  The 'Gou built it' stuff and the friendship gave him many breaks...those ran out Sunday.

As to contacting him...I don't have a phone number to reach him 24/7, as was indicated he was offline so emailing him wouldn't have worked either.  

I guess what you are saying Jay is that Doug should be treated differently because I 'owe him'. That he should be given 'free reign' to do what he wants cuz hes Doug. Sorry. This isn't RMA. There are rules here.  If someone cant follow them, then I don't want them here.  Theres several unwriten ones...ones like 'You are a Guest - act like one' and 'Dont be stupid'.

You dont like it, I dont like it, but the fact is, Gou Ronin is gone. I like Doug as a person.  As a member of this forum I always gave him the benifit of the doubt. I thought of him as a friend. But this was too much.  He's been bored before, I have the warnings and suspension list to prove it.  I'll end up sitting down with him at some point and discussing it...maybe in August at Jeff Blays camp.  Maybe at some point he'll be let back on, but don't hold your breath. You're right, I am majorly pissed about this, and I've got good right to be.

I just hope you guys letting him use your accounts dont get yourselfs booted too when he gets bored again.


This one shouldnt have to be said, but since it was pointed out there was no rule, I will now make one and it will be enforced to the best of our ability.
*Open your account up others, lose your account. You as the account holder will be held fully responsible for whatever others do with your account. When we can verify it, you are gone. No discussion.*

Any questions?
Anyone wishing to have your account closed now (since I'm an un unreasonable nazi bastard) please post it here, and I will remove it within 12 hours.

Thank you.


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## arnisador

Indeed, friendship is not the issue. I assure you that if Tim Hartman did this, and messages were posted as Kaith indicated above, that _I_ would ban him. He's my instructor and close friend but as Kaith states _MartialTalk is a business_. It's a money-losing one, but the point is that we try to run it in a professional manner.

It's absolutely correct that *GouRonin* has been a great help to this board. We appreciate it; I hope to some day thank him in person. But he has also used multiple accounts and been disruptive and has been suspended.

This is a place for the _friendly_ discussion of the martial arts. There are other places for other sorts of martial art conversations: Academic on E-Budo, vulgar and insulting on rec.martial-arts, and so on. We have no desire to be all things to all people. I regularly read both (parts of) E-Budo and the cesspool that is rec.martial-arts, for example. among others (some closed).

This is regrettable, but ask yourself: How does this sort of behaviour scale? Would it seem so funny to see those sorts of messages posted from the account of someone you didn't know?

The board certainly suffers in some respects for the loss of such a prolific poster but would suffer more if people coming to MartialTalk saw such vulgar posts regularly.

This was a right and necessary decision.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Master of Blades

Just out of curiosity.....How many people have asked and had there accounts removed because of this  

:asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm

I say Good Riddence to those who bail b/c of him.  Hardly a lost to MT.


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## KenpoGirl

Kaith, you have every right to be pissed at Gou, and I agree that because to the nature of the posts I would have banned him too, because he was irresponcible to leave the opportunity open for some (or one) very sick person to post as they did.

That being said, I don't want the people that don't know him, to think that Gou is some evil superbeing (thought I think he might enjoy that idea).   Gou is a unique person with a total different way to look at the world in general.   I want you to know in my very honest opinion that the things he does that may cause "issues" with people are not done out of malice.  This past event was not done to make your life miseralbe Kaith, just to spice things up.  Sadly things went a wry.  Again that still does not make it right.

Gou is a personal friend of mine and what happened does not change my opinion of him.  But if I get the chance and a quick way to escape I do intend to swat him in the back of the head, the next time I see him, for being so stupid.  

That's just my 2 cents everyone is free to have their own opinion.  

Dot  :asian:


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## pesilat

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Kaith, you have every right to be pissed at Gou, and I agree that because to the nature of the posts I would have banned him too, because he was irresponcible to leave the opportunity open for some (or one) very sick person to post as they did.
> 
> That being said, I don't want the people that don't know him, to think that Gou is some evil superbeing (thought I think he might enjoy that idea).   Gou is a unique person with a total different way to look at the world in general.   I want you to know in my very honest opinion that the things he does that may cause "issues" with people are not done out of malice.  This past event was not done to make your life miseralbe Kaith, just to spice things up.  Sadly things went a wry.  Again that still does not make it right.
> 
> Gou is a personal friend of mine and what happened does not change my opinion of him.  But if I get the chance and a quick way to escape I do intend to swat him in the back of the head, the next time I see him, for being so stupid.
> 
> That's just my 2 cents everyone is free to have their own opinion.
> 
> Dot  :asian: *



Well put, and I agree completely. Swat him for me, too 

Mike


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## KenpoGirl

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Well put, and I agree completely. Swat him for me, too
> 
> Mike *




Hmmm not sure I'd have time for 2 swats and still be able to get away.  Is it okay if I just swat him twice as hard?


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## pesilat

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *Hmmm not sure I'd have time for 2 swats and still be able to get away.  Is it okay if I just swat him twice as hard?
> 
> *



Absolutely. Just make sure to tell him that 1/2 the swat is from me and that he'll have to drag his sorry butt down here to Louisville, KY to tag me in return 

Mike


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## theletch1

[This is not Rec.Martial-Arts. This is not any of a hundred other forums out there that allow anarchy to reign free. We try to provide a friendly, free enviroment with a minimum of heavy moderation. Crap like this just forces us to do heavier modertion of things. You wanna just say/do whatever, however? Wanna post nudes, and porn, and talk trash n swear like a truck driver? Wanna be internet 'keyboard warriors'?
Go somewhere else. 
QUOTE]

As a truck driver I can vouch for the "swear like a" portion of your comment but only when I'm on the road.  I do not use language like that around my children.  All of my children do on occassion read over my shoulder while I'm on MT and I would have been extremely ticked had one of them gotten an eye full of some of the things posted by "who-ever" and you can bet that Kaith's head could have been on the block if that same "who-ever" had decided to post porn while on their little excursion.  I enjoyed a lot of Gou's posts but, as a parent, I gotta say good bye to Gou and thank you Kaith.


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## Bob Hubbard

I'll still stand back to back with him in a fight, even if all I can do is absorb a few so he can take care of business.  I still consider him a friend.

This is just business.  Theres alot of folks who have taken shots at me.  I try not to let it bother me.  After all, there are more important things in life than carrying a grudge.

:asian:


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## theletch1

I'll still stand back to back with him in a fight, even if all I can do is absorb a few so he can take care of business. I still consider him a friend.

This is just business. Theres alot of folks who have taken shots at me. I try not to let it bother me. After all, there are more important things in life than carrying a grudge.


> As it should be.  You did as you felt you HAD to, not what you WANTED to do.  I still say thank you, not from malice towards Gou but from, perhaps overly so, a desire to shield my kids as much as possible.


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## Master of Blades

> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *Well put, and I agree completely. Swat him for me, too
> 
> Mike *




*Resisting urge to ask for her as well because that as we all know would be UN-Serious* 

:asian:


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## Michael Billings

Sorry if you are losing people.  Hopefully not too many.  I did not see the posts, but would have been seriously pissed about the comments you quoted.

Hopefully he will mature up a little and want to come back, at which time it is up to you and he to decide on.

Good decision.

-Michael


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## Chronuss

you know...I'm a bit late on this...but just because it came from Gou's IP addy does not necessarily mean it came from his PC.  especially if his PC is on a hub or router, there are many ways to use some simple DOS based commands to make one PC "think" that it has another IP addy.  I know this may be a stupid question, but can you check MAC addresses to even see if it did come from his PC?


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## KenpoGirl

And so it begins........ okay here are the rules .......

1.  No scratching (that's my job)
2.  No biting (same applies)
3.  No hitting below the belt (unless there's a cup then buy all means)  
4.  No slanderous comments (oops to late, (maybe) disregard)
5.  No calling anyone pooh pooh head, or other discriptive words as such.
6.  Chest banging, throwing of fecies or other in-animent objects is allowable.
7.  Messuring length of genital area also allowed to class definition.
8.  Loin cloths must be made of leather tanned but this competitor themselves.
9.  Individuals must bang their own respective drums and dance around the fire before match.

hmmmmmm what else.

oh yes

10.  Leave maturity in your respective corner.

Does everyone understand??  

Good go to your corners and come out fighting like a girl.  :shrug:


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## J-kid

Heh
I have nothing against Gou or pritty much anyone on this board.

But sometimes people just kid around no harm done.

I feel sometimes certian people in control go off on what i would like to call power trips.

Just relax...


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## ydma1796

I've read alot of Gou's posts.  I think that he had some pretty good insite. But if he or/ whom ever posted such signitures then the banning was an unfortunate necessity.




> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *go to your corners and come out fighting like a girl.  :shrug: *



Is that a bad thing? ...Kenpo*Girl*  that's you isn't it? In my old studio their was a young lady who would kick the living c$@# out of just about everyone in the class.  I'd take it as a compliment if you said I could fight like her.  

Salute :asian:
Kevin


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## pesilat

> _Originally posted by ydma1796 _
> *I've read alot of Gou's posts.  I think that he had some pretty good insite. But if he or/ whom ever posted such signitures then the banning was an unfortunate necessity.*



Absolutely. Gou is a good guy with good insights. But he also has a penchant for leaping before looking ... especially when he gets bored. It's generally a trait that could be considered endearing about him.

Unfortunately, this time, his leap caused some serious problems.

Mike


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## KenpoGirl

> _Originally posted by ydma1796 _
> *Is that a bad thing? ...KenpoGirl  that's you isn't it? In my old studio their was a young lady who would kick the living c$@# out of just about everyone in the class.  I'd take it as a compliment if you said I could fight like her.
> 
> Salute :asian:
> Kevin *




AHEM!!!   Just to clarify ....... I DO NOT FIGHT LIKE A GIRL!!!

I fight like a *KENPOGIRL!!!!*

There is a difference.


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## Jill666

I fight like a martial artist  :samurai:


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## Jill666

Got off on a tangent huh-  

Didn't realize this was the *banned*  thread. 

Humble apoligies.


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## cdhall

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *...Wanna be internet 'keyboard warriors'?
> Go somewhere else.*



Good call, Bob.  I got into trouble once myself for saying almost the same thing.

Gou should have been banned.  Well done.

I have not been on much but I saw this and thought I'd put my support for you out here where it might do some good.

Thanks.


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## Master of Blades

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> *AHEM!!!   Just to clarify ....... I DO NOT FIGHT LIKE A GIRL!!!
> 
> I fight like a KENPOGIRL!!!!
> 
> There is a difference.
> 
> *



I fight like a girl.........Whats everyones point :shrug:


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## jfarnsworth

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *I fight like a girl.........Whats everyones point :shrug: *



Ha HAAAAAAAA!!!!!......Is this before, after, or during the time when you are wearing women's clothing??????   :rofl:


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *I fight like a girl.........Whats everyones point :shrug: *


You scream like one too!:rofl:


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## Billy Lear

I like this user name better anyway.

Bob thanks for killing the old account for me.

Kirk... I'm back now, and Gou's still gone.  
Seig... Thanks for stickin' up for me bro...

And for DOC... I ain't cyber stalkin' you! Honest!

Now... How do I modify my personal settings on this thing again? Oh yeah, first I have to press the red button...


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by Billy Lear _
> *Seig... Thanks for stickin' up for me bro...*


Any time, bro.




> *Oh yeah, first I have to press the red button... *


No No No , not the red one, don't ever push the red one.....


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## Yari

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *
> don't ever push the red one..... *



Famous last words... 

Like ... it's the red wire...

or

It's all clear....

or

He doesn't have a gun

or

Of course it's safe...

or

ops..........


/Yari


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## jaybacca72

i was not implying that doug made this board what i was saying that people like him make it interesting,gou is the mike tyson of the internet people love to hate him but they always want to know what he is up to or saying online.the bull comment was directed towards the gou posting porn issue,sorry i jumped the gun earlier i did not get to read the posts that were made from gou's pc.i talked to doug today and he told me yes he gave out his password but he did not do those posts,remember doug works at a half way house for mental patients that are trying to get back into society(for real). he meant no malice and didn't really expect to cause trouble for ya bob.
so no hard feelings on our part,lets kiss and make up and get back to the forum.
later
jay
ps just a thought gou is the wrestler that keeps going from good guy to the heel,he is just trying to keep everyone on thier toes that's all.


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## Kirk

> _Originally posted by Billy Lear _
> *I like this user name better anyway.
> 
> Bob thanks for killing the old account for me.
> 
> Kirk... I'm back now, and Gou's still gone.
> Seig... Thanks for stickin' up for me bro...
> 
> And for DOC... I ain't cyber stalkin' you! Honest!
> 
> Now... How do I modify my personal settings on this thing again? Oh yeah, first I have to press the red button... *



Did you not tell me to type what I did?  Where those your words,
or was I making them up?


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## Bob Hubbard

Jay,
  No worries, but the thought of Doug in spandex is very distrubing.


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## Billy Lear

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Did you not tell me to type what I did?  Where those your words,
> or was I making them up? *



I did... and I came back because I reconsidered my position on the topic. No big deal my friend. Call me later today when you get the chance.

Sincerely,
Billy Lear :asian:


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