# Differences between EPAK and White Tiger Kempo?



## Shotochem (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi All,

     I am a new convert to Kempo.  I have studied Shotokan for the past 7yrs.  My question for you guys is what are the differences between the Parker system and the White Tiger System (Prof Rick Fescina).

     I have already experienced a great difference between what I learned in Shotokan and what I am learning now ( from hard and linear to more circular yet hard and flowing?).   It's hard for me to explain as of now.  I am curious as to the comparisons of one Kempo style vs another.


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## HKphooey (Aug 7, 2006)

First off, EPAK is considered Kenpo and White Tiger is Kempo.  White Tiger Kempo incorporates Karate, Kung Fu and Jujitsu.  This style also focuses on hand strikes as well as feet (according to their marketing materials, 50/50 mix). Many of the movements adn strikes are dirived from the Shaolin forms.  

I have not had a chance to study that style, but have studied Shoalin Kempo.  There is many similarities, but also many differences.  Really depends on what you are looking to get out of your training.  Both are great arts.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 7, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> *First off, EPAK is considered Kenpo and White Tiger is Kempo.* White Tiger Kempo incorporates Karate, Kung Fu and Jujitsu. This style also focuses on hand strikes as well as feet (according to their marketing materials, 50/50 mix). Many of the movements adn strikes are dirived from the Shaolin forms.
> 
> I have not had a chance to study that style, but have studied Shoalin Kempo. There is many similarities, but also many differences. Really depends on what you are looking to get out of your training. Both are great arts.


 
http://www.whitetigerkenpo.com/

*A Little History First:*

White Tiger Kenpo started in 1981 as most other schools do, in a garage. As things progressed, the students grew, which created a need for more space. So Tom Saviano started teaching three days a week sharing a school with his instructor, Grand Master John McSweeney. The old school is affectionately called York Road, and has a special place in many of our hearts that were lucky enough to train there.
Times change and the popularity of Tom Saviano's system grew. As did the student base. The need to move on had come again and we moved to our current location back in 1994. We currently have 3000+ square feet of space, and several active and knowledgeable instructors. Check the links below for more information.

*Our Roots:*





Tom Saviano received his Kenpo instruction from *Grand Master John McSweeney, one of Senior Grand Master Ed Parker's earlier Black Belts.* John McSweeney's form of Kenpo is a system based on Ed Parker's Kenpo of the 50's and 60's, the Chinese styles which he had opportunity to study, and his back ground in Judo and other forms of Martial Arts. Over the years, he developed a system who's primary focus was plain and simple self defense with stopping power. 

*The White Tiger System:*






Mr. Saviano  established his *White Tiger Kenpo School* in 1981. The system's base is Kenpo. Also, the system introduces aspects of Southern/Northern Chinese Kung Fu, Japanese/Okinawan Karate, and other aspects of Martial Arts that covers all ranges of self defense. Rather than the usual focus put on direct strikes, this system is composed of circular blocks, linear and circular strikes, grappling, throwing, sweeping, joint locking and ground fighting techniques. Although many types of kicks are used, the system is designed to use knee and foot strikes below the waist, with hand and elbow strikes above the waist. 
As a student of the White Tiger system, from the beginning you will learn basic self defense techniques that will not only teach you balance, coordination, power, and self confidence; but techniques which are designed to be practical and effective from the very beginning. With this combination and his many years of experience, Tom Saviano has created a unique and very effective form of Self-Defense. 

Perhaps this is the Ke*N*po the original poster is referring to?


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## HKphooey (Aug 7, 2006)

I had thought that too, but Prof. Fescina was mentioned and he did state kempo.  So was was not sure.  I had heard of Mr. Saviano's style, too.  

Glad you brought it up?  Shotochem, which one were you referring to?  This way the group can more accurately address your question.


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## John Bishop (Aug 7, 2006)

Two differant people.  
White Tiger Kenpo is a offshoot of EPAK.  (Tom Saviano)
White Tiger Karate is a offshoot of Shaolin Kempo  (Rick Fescina)

The ciriculum of Villari's Shaolin Kempo has just about no similarities to Ed Parker's Kenpo.


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## Shotochem (Aug 7, 2006)

Mr Bishop,

This is where you have been hiding.    

You have been a big help and have given me some excellent information.  I am curious about the technical differences between styles.  I am an analytical creature by habbit and I eagerly scroung up as much info as I can about everything.  (BTW your site is a wealth of info. thanks)

  I am pleasantly suprised at what I am learning under the Fescina system. 

 It really is quite different than the Shotokan I have learned.  I have been so impressed and am having such an enjoyable time learning there that I no longer train with my Shotokan dojo. 

Is it correct to assume that EPAC is completly different than White Tiger & Shaolin systems or are the more like  cousins???


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## Shotochem (Aug 7, 2006)

OOPS!!!

I forgot the link for our system.

http://www.kempomartialarts.net/History.html


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## Matt (Aug 7, 2006)

Shotochem said:
			
		

> Mr Bishop,
> 
> This is where you have been hiding.
> 
> ...



I'm not Mr. Bishop, but I think I can shed some light on this one. Mr. Fescina did cut his teeth, so to speak, in Mr. Villari's organization, spent some time with the late Professor Nick Cerio, and is now a proud member of the KSDI. In fact, I believe his site states that he received his 8th dan in Kajukenbo directly from Sijo Emperado. Wow!

Since he had his basis in Villari's, his movement patterns are most directly influenced by the East Coast style of kempo which arrived for the most part via SGM. George Pesare, a student of Grandmaster Victor Gascon. GM Gascon was a Kajujenbo man initially, but went  independent in the early 1960's. SGM Pesare's style tends toward harder movements, more karate footwork influences, and an absence of 'checks'. EPAK, on the other hand, has a much more flowing movement pattern, more emphasis on speed striking, and checks to hinder or redirect movement on the opponent. 

If you were to say 'which one looks more like Hawaiian Kempo' such as that of Professor Chow? I would have to say EPAK. If you were to say, 'which one is better'? I would say the one you enjoy more. You'll practice more and get better at it. Yes, EPAK and East Coast kempo are cousins, but they have been separated long enough that they are pretty much different species at this point. 

P.S. You may find some familiar techniques to the ones you are learning in my online technique archive - http://home.comcast.net/~matthewabarnes/. 

Matt


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## Matt (Aug 7, 2006)

John Bishop said:
			
		

> Two differant people.
> White Tiger Kenpo is a offshoot of EPAK.  (Tom Saviano)
> White Tiger Karate is a offshoot of Shaolin Kempo  (Rick Fescina)
> 
> The ciriculum of Villari's Shaolin Kempo has just about no similarities to Ed Parker's Kenpo.



Pretty much correct, with a couple exceptions.
1. The two man set. Essentially identical. 

2. Fred Villari's 3rd black technique #40 is a dead ringer for EPAK's purple belt technique 'leaping crane'. Huh? No, I'm not kidding. 

Matt


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## Shotochem (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks Matt,

That describes basically what we are doing.  The combos and kempos look familiar and I have seen a couple of variations on some that I'm doing now.  Though they may be just higher belt techs for me.  Theres some real good stuff in there.

Being a former Shoto guy I am naturally a little more harder than flowing in my movements.  My brain really wants to do what I'm learning but muscle memory is going somewhere else.


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