# How long does a fight last?



## silatman (Mar 21, 2007)

The other night at training we got into a discussion about fitnesss and diets and that led to a split in the group about the importance of being fit.
Bascially it led to two major groups of thought.
One being that fitness is everything and without good stamina and endurance all the skills in the world will not help if you are gassed after 30 seconds of combat.
The other side of the coin was that an 'average' streetfight for someone trained should only last for 30 seconds and that the ability to fight for 10 minutes or 30 minutes is only really needed for sporting applications.

So what do people think, is stamina that important? and how long does the 'average' streetfight last?


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## pstarr (Mar 21, 2007)

It depends on your skill. My teacher said that a fight should last no more than 2-3 blows...your opponent's is the first one, and your instant response.


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## silatman (Mar 21, 2007)

So does that put you in the fitness is unimportant group?


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## Shuto (Mar 21, 2007)

If it last for just two or three blows then I would say fitness is a minor factor.  If the fight evolves into grappling then I think fitness and strength are critical.  I recall being amazed at how exhausting a two or three minute wrestling round was in high school gym class.  Of course, there are a lot of other benefits to being fit.


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## Shaderon (Mar 21, 2007)

I would imagine that the majority of fights between one skilled opponant and one unskilled opponant would last a very short amount of time, but for some arts, part of your fitness is being able to do your moves properly and with the correct amount of force needed.  

Also if you can last for 30 seconds what happens if the fight goes on for 31 seconds?   I know this is a bit extreme but I think you'll find in most sports people make sure their endurance goes on for longer than they expect it to have to last, like with running, you train to run slightly longer than you need to, there's no point in only being able to do what's expected, you need to be able to stand up and walk home after that too.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 21, 2007)

It most certainly IS important.

First off there is always the possibility that the fight *may* go longer, you don't know the other guy's training/fitness level, only yours.

Secondly it may only be a very brief fight but remember that the adrenaline response is much more severe when you *know* it could be life or death than if you know its a sport, and your wind/stamina/general energy will get burned up by the second that much more quickly as a result, so pay at least some kind of attention to basic fitness even if you don't do some all out Rocky workout.


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## Bigshadow (Mar 21, 2007)

I am in the middle on this.  A certain level of fitness is necessary, but anything beyond that is a nice to have, but isn't absolutely critical.  Oh, I don't know how long fights last.   I would imagine a fight (like for your life) would be pretty quick, not like the hollywood fight scenes.


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## stickarts (Mar 21, 2007)

I have heard that the average fight lasts 6 seconds, however, at the same time, most of the best fighters that I have seen and known were in extremely good condition.
I think its only to our advantage to take great care of our health and conditioning. Improving fitness is almost always one of the reasons that students join our school.


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## LawDog (Mar 21, 2007)

Not trying to sound like a wise guy, a fight will last untill it is over.
A time frame cannot be placed on a street type fight, there are to many factors involved.
:boxing:


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## stickarts (Mar 21, 2007)

Getting in great shape is also a great confidence builder.


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## HKphooey (Mar 21, 2007)

Like everything else we train for, train like you are going to fight the best fighter.  Assume the othe person is skilled and in top physical condition.  Or on the other hand, they are doped up or drunk, feel now pain, and refuse to go down easily.


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## terryl965 (Mar 21, 2007)

Fitness is one aspect, cardio is another and fighting is yet another. We train to be ready and being ready means to be in some sort of shape but that does not mean you need to be at 1% body fat and hit thhe gym to lift wieghts 10 hours a  day. Being fit mentally is the biggest problem for most that do not know how to control pain when a fight breaks out and solely relies on adrialine.

My advice would be stay in relitively shape and ecplore your mind to be ready if need be.


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## KempoGuy06 (Mar 21, 2007)

Fitness in important but in a street fight i dont believe it would be critical. If someone attacks you how many miles you run a day isnt going to be a factor if they try to stab you with a knife. Where that would fall into play is if you are attacked by more than one person and you have to turn and run. 15 sec burst of speed and then you are exhausted is not exactly going to put distance between you and your attackers. So train for tomorrow not for today, train for what could happen. 

B


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## MJS (Mar 21, 2007)

Fitness is important.  However, I don't think it needs to be taken to the level of a pro fighter.  The average person most likely does not have the time to devote to that kind of training.

I agree with LawDog...it will last until its over.  Think about this.  If it was only to last 6 seconds, then why do MMA and Boxing matches last longer?  If someone states that MMA is as close to an unarmed fight as you can get, then the 6 sec, 3 sec, or any sec. rule is pretty much moot.

Mike


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 21, 2007)

Every encounter is simply different.  I have arrested people where it was simple, quick and took almost no effort at all.  Then on the reverse side I have been in a tussle making an arrest and it was brutal and I was completely spent.  Fighting is no different in that each individual situation will be different.  The big question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to *not* be in good enough shape to get the job done?  So in my opinion fitness is very important in conjunction with very good technical combative training.  The two together will certainly give you a chance in the moment.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 21, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Fitness is one aspect, cardio is another and fighting is yet another.



Words of wisdom.



> We train to be ready and being ready means to be in some sort of shape but that does not mean you need to be at 1% body fat and hit thhe gym to lift wieghts 10 hours a  day.


Good to remember, since this'll never happen for me. But really, I agree--some conditioning is necessary, if just to help control adrenaline and breathing (from excited state).



> Being fit mentally is the biggest problem for most that do not know how to control pain when a fight breaks out and solely relies on adrialine.


And I would add, beyond pain, we have to control our fears. What am I going to do when he lands a lucky/skilled punch to my nose, and I see my own blood spraying over him and me every time I breathe? Sorry to sound gross, but been there--Ok, more than once.   Was able to 'fight' my way out, but wouldn't call either a 'win,' other than I got to walk away.



> My advice would be stay in relitively shape and ecplore your mind to be ready if need be.


Exactly.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 21, 2007)

When I used to train in an empty-hand art, I was very fit indeed.  Our teacher was of the opinion that fit people had faster reaction times, could hit harder and absorb more punishment.  

These are not absolutely true, as some recent research has shown.  However, being so fit did mean that I could survive the thirty minutes or so of physical training and free-sparring we did each (2 hour lesson) lesson.

Nowadays, I'm much fatter and slower and have one arm that I would be most ill advised to use in a fight if it ever came to that.  Of course, now I do iai and thus have very little need for good cardio-vascular fitness ... thank god .

In the final analysis tho', *Kempo*'s statement above is fairly on the money (assuming that combat is what you're in MA for in the first place of course, which is not necessarily the case).  *Terry*'s point about _mental_ toughness/preparedness is possibly more important when it comes to non-sparring fighting - I know that the one time I ever had to use my MA training I didn't start shaking until after I'd beaten off the attack and safely made it to the police station {then I did a good impression of a tree in a gale :lol:}.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Mar 21, 2007)

When you're going on holiday, do you bring precisely the amount of money you think you'll need for it, or do you bring extra "just in case"?

If you are going camping in the wilderness, do you bring the precise amount of supplies you'll use, or do you bring a little more "just in case"?

And if you are getting yourself into condition to fight, do you get just exactly fit enough to deal with with what you think will happen, or do you get fitter "just in case"?

So for those who feel the fitness is unimportant,  it will serve you right when you're standing broke, starving and wheezing in the wilderness about to be eaten by bears


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## Cirdan (Mar 21, 2007)

Fitness might not be the most important aspect here. I think the main goal of training hard in the arts and getting exhausted is learning to function under stress and reach the level where moves can be executed without a thougt. It will also teach you to fucus, tolerate pain and get rid of those extra pounds that limit your movent and speed. While fitness is more of a by-product it is VERY useful for Nike-Jutsu, And of course, there is no reason NOT to be fit.


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## Shotgun Buddha (Mar 21, 2007)

Cirdan said:


> Fitness might not be the most important aspect here. I think the main goal of training hard in the arts and getting exhausted is learning to function under stress and reach the level where moves can be executed without a thougt. It will also teach you to fucus, tolerate pain and get rid of those extra pounds that limit your movent and speed. While fitness is more of a by-product it is VERY useful for Nike-Jutsu, And of course, there is no reason NOT to be fit.


 
Thats true too. I know personally, the single thing which has though me the most discipline in training was the heavy fitness training. Having the self-control to force myself to continue, to push myself up off the ground and keep going is to my mind the most useful trait Ive gained from it, or any training. That self control is what allows me to fight or survive.


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## IcemanSK (Mar 21, 2007)

My favorite comment on this was by a Korean Hapkido master in a tv interview years ago. The reporter asking him the questions was also his student. The question asked, "If you got into a fight on the street, would you take off your glasses?" His answer? "No, the fight wouldn't last that long." :ultracool


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 21, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Not trying to sound like a wise guy, a fight will last untill it is over.
> A time frame cannot be placed on a street type fight, there are to many factors involved.
> :boxing:


Yes, and don't forget there is always at least one more person involved than you bargained for.
Sean


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## Blotan Hunka (Mar 21, 2007)

Fitness is the ultimate "better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it" thing. People make up all kinds of rationalizations for why working out isnt necessary, ask some of the lucky few who survived an attack where fitness was a factor and Id wager they would tell you to start exercising. 

As to fitness level. If you are just cruising through a workout and not pushing yourself even the slightest, dont even bother.


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## Blotan Hunka (Mar 21, 2007)

Thinking about this question some more. Which is wiser, preparing for the long fight or the short one? If you are prepared for the long fight and it goes short all the better. If you are training for a short fight (ignoring fitness) and it goes long, youre screwed. So the answer is clear to me.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 21, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> Thinking about this question some more. Which is wiser, preparing for the long fight or the short one? If you are prepared for the long fight and it goes short all the better. If you are training for a short fight (ignoring fitness) and it goes long, youre screwed. So the answer is clear to me.


 
Well, I see your point, but can't totally agree. If I train for the long fight consistently, I form the mindset that it will be a long fight and may settle in for such. He, on the other hand, may have trained to put me away in 2-4 seconds (or less), and may do so while I'm settling in. So I'd just say, let's remember the mindset we're forming (consciously or not) when we train. :ultracool


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## Blotan Hunka (Mar 21, 2007)

Mindset is about survival, not fight length. You really have no control over how long a fight is going to go. Either you prevail quickly or you dont. The worst case scenario is a long fight. To fail to prepare for the worst case is foolish. IMO.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 21, 2007)

Blotan Hunka said:


> Mindset is about survival, not fight length. You really have no control over how long a fight is going to go. Either you prevail quickly or you dont. The worst case scenario is a long fight. To fail to prepare for the worst case is foolish. IMO.


 
Well, before we digress into calling each other foolish, let's just agree to each train our own ways. :wink2:


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## Shotgun Buddha (Mar 21, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Well, I see your point, but can't totally agree. If I train for the long fight consistently, I form the mindset that it will be a long fight and may settle in for such. He, on the other hand, may have trained to put me away in 2-4 seconds (or less), and may do so while I'm settling in. So I'd just say, let's remember the mindset we're forming (consciously or not) when we train. :ultracool


 
Fitness training does not form your mindset while fighting. Your mindset is formed by the combat drills you do, so if you're drills focus on all out aggressive assault, then thats the mindset you'll take with you into combat.
What the fitness training will do is ensure that you're physically in condition to perform that initial assault, and to keep going if it goes on longer than expected.


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## Blotan Hunka (Mar 21, 2007)

Shotgun Buddha said:


> Fitness training does not form your mindset while fighting. Your mindset is formed by the combat drills you do, so if you're drills focus on all out aggressive assault, then thats the mindset you'll take with you into combat.
> What the fitness training will do is ensure that you're physically in condition to perform that initial assault, and to keep going if it goes on longer than expected.


 
You said it better than I did.  And I had no intention of calling any individual foolish, unless they seriously only train for a short fight and make no plan for a long one. And thats just for their own good. I dont want to see anybody but the "bad guy" loose.


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## jks9199 (Mar 21, 2007)

LawDog said:


> Not trying to sound like a wise guy, a fight will last untill it is over.
> A time frame cannot be placed on a street type fight, there are to many factors involved.
> :boxing:


Not only is there no guarantee on how long a fight will last...  but there's no guarantee on what condition you'll be in when it starts.  You might already have had a long day...  You might have just left a workout...  In other words -- the bare minimum fitness might be enough if you choose the time and place.  Since you seldom have that opportunity, you can't presume that "just enough" is good enough.  Imagine starting a 30 mile drive with only enough gas to drive 30 miles, and encountering a traffic jam.  Will your gas be enough, then?

Fitness also assists you in recovering from or minimizing the effect injuries.  And in a real fight -- you WILL be hurt.  Being in shape will let you take the damage and continue, or recover more quickly from it afterwards.


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## still learning (Mar 21, 2007)

Hello, From what I understand, Real street fights only last for seconds, because one guy was unprepare and got the beatings.

I once had a fight that lasted for 3 hours long,  hook-up at midnight fought the thrasher shark for 3 hours long...brought him to the rock point and cut my line. (longest fight I ever being in). From the shoreline.

Ring fights,boxing,wrestling,judo and any tournment type fights have rules..they may last longer..because you cannot kill ,break bones,eye gouges,biting , throat strikes to the other guy.  ( It doesn't take much to snap a neck?).

I think it does affect how long you fight? streets because you do not want to kill the other guy...just hurt them enough to stop. This will last longer most times!   But in a war?..or fighting for your life? ...most likely will end faster,because of the killing points/moves. (My thoughts and guess).  Unexperience fighters usually last longer sometimes,each person not really hiting each other hard enough, sometimes funny to watch them.

Most fights do not last longer than a minute, both will be exhausted and one will be hurting more than the other. Police or other people may break it up too.

NOTE: An aveage or 26,000 thousand people die each year from stupid fights.  DO NOT LET YOUR EGO/PRIDE cause you to get into a fight! WALK AWAY ....Live longer that way...beats going to jail too!..........Aloha


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## Sukerkin (Mar 21, 2007)

Crickey, *SL*!

Where did you get that fatalities statistic from?  I'm assuming that's globally rather than just in the States !  However, it's a sobering thought that no matter how trained you are, the most drunken numpty can kill you with one punch you don't see coming.  

That's way, to reference the thread on avoiding trouble, it's so important to increase awareness and alertness along with kicking power.  That way you stand a chance of staying out of the fight in the first place.


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## MJS (Mar 21, 2007)

kidswarrior said:


> Well, I see your point, but can't totally agree. If I train for the long fight consistently, I form the mindset that it will be a long fight and may settle in for such. He, on the other hand, may have trained to put me away in 2-4 seconds (or less), and may do so while I'm settling in. So I'd just say, let's remember the mindset we're forming (consciously or not) when we train. :ultracool


 
Wouldn't you just be preparing for the worst case scenario though?  Just because one is training to go longer, we should still be trying to end it as quickly as possible.  In the event it does go longer, I'm better prepared.

Maybe I'm just not reading this right. 

Mike


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## green meanie (Mar 21, 2007)

silatman said:


> So what do people think, is stamina that important? and how long does the 'average' streetfight last?


 
It's impossible to answer. Every situation is different. Might as well ask how long is a piece of string...

'Hope for the best, prepare fo the worst.' That's my motto. Besides, I've noticed I don't get as tired when I'm winning as I do when I'm losing...


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## kidswarrior (Mar 21, 2007)

green meanie said:


> Besides, I've noticed I don't get as tired when I'm winning as I do when I'm losing...



_ This is my new motto._ 



> *MJS:* Wouldn't you just be preparing for the worst case scenario though? Just because one is training to go longer, we should still be trying to end it as quickly as possible. In the event it does go longer, I'm better prepared.


Maybe so. I guess what I'm trying to say (and not communicating) is what that looks like. Years ago, when I was training to box, I was in the best shape of my life. Roadwork at 4 AM, back to bed till 7 or so, get up and eat, take care of the day's business (work/school), 7-9/10PM hit the gym with my trainer.

But all that conditioneing was preparation for 3 amateur rounds of boxing against a fairly equal opponent. Today I can only dream of that kind of conditioning (for one thing, pretty sure I'd have to have cartilage in my knees to do road work ). But am also pretty sure I'm a much better fighter--not for sport, but in real situations. How do I train for that? By doing my art as much as possible, and as I said previously, adding in some combat conditioning ala Matt Furey.

Woud I also like to have the build I had in the late 60s from boxing? Of course. But since life demands we pick and choose what we do with every 24 hours, I focus on being the best fighter I can be, with the conditioning that I can achieve. By the way, I'm not saying fitness is not important--we seem to have drawn an either/dichotomy at some point in this discussion, but I for one did not say that. Fitness is important, but must be balanced with the rest of my art within the time and energy constraints I have available.

To return to the Dick Butkus illustration, he didn't become a better football player by lifting weights, but by playing football. Not to say I'm in his league, just that I appreciate his style.

:asian:


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## Sukerkin (Mar 21, 2007)

Good points, *Green Meanie*.

Just to give an empirical yardstick on the 'how long a street fight lasts', my single (and hopefully 'only') 'piece of string' was less than five seconds long (whoa, metaphors blending nicely here ).  I had time for four techniques against three opponents followed by the second most important technique of all ... legging it!  That's the bit where the stamina training pays off.

To be brutally frank, unless you get embroiled in something that erupts with no prior warning, a trained martial artist should either be nowhere around when trouble boils over or should be doing his darndest not to make things worse.  

*SL*'s point about 'ego' is very telling.  If you know that you are trained and capable of unleashing hurt upon people, then you have nothing to 'prove'.  Humility goes a long way in preventing violence and if all a 'strong-arm' wants to do is prove what a 'man' he is to his girl by seeming to intimidate you, then let him.  You lose nothing, he doesn't get broken, everyone goes home happy.


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## still learning (Mar 22, 2007)

Sukerkin said:


> Crickey, *SL*!
> 
> Where did you get that fatalities statistic from? I'm assuming that's globally rather than just in the States ! However, it's a sobering thought that no matter how trained you are, the most drunken numpty can kill you with one punch you don't see coming.
> 
> That's way, to reference the thread on avoiding trouble, it's so important to increase awareness and alertness along with kicking power. That way you stand a chance of staying out of the fight in the first place.


 
From the book: Gift of Fear.........Aloha


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## K' Evans (Mar 22, 2007)

I agree that every situation is different, and that some fights may last longer for all sorts of reasons (e.g. more people join in, the fighters don't know their limits and continue pummelling). Even if we were to look at MMA matches, entertainment wrestling matches and etc, there are just too many variables to consider. Some fights end in a few seconds with a single KO, while some can just go on and on. 

On the question of fitness, stamina and endurance, there's no doubt I have found that to be important, and people don't give it as much emphasis than I think (i.e. people prefer to have more power than stamina). When I first entered my martial arts school, I thought I would be quite alright considering I have been weight-lifting and doing cardio for a measurable period of time. Some of the students are also fatter and older than me so I thought I should, at the least, be able to last longer. 

I was not only sadly mistaken but humbled very much. Guys older than me by 20 years, shorter and fatter could kick harder and longer than me. As I read up more, I realised I was narrow-minded and mistaken to think my condition in running/sprint could be translated to better stamina in martial arts conditioning. It does help, of course, but it's just not the same thing. Further, as time goes by in a fight, you will find that you can't punch and kick as well due to the loss of energy.      

Anyway, back to the street situation. Most likely, a trained person should be able to end a fight relatively quickly against someone who isn't trained, but I would not guarantee that the trained martial artist would win. A swinging hit from a brawler still hurts whether trained or not, and in a fight, other variables come into place (e.g. accuracy, timing, power, mental tougness). I also think luck has a lot to do with it.


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## kidswarrior (Mar 22, 2007)

K' Evans said:


> When I first entered my martial arts school, I thought I would be quite alright considering I have been weight-lifting and doing cardio for a measurable period of time. Some of the students are also fatter and older than me so I thought I should, at the least, be able to last longer.
> 
> I was not only sadly mistaken but humbled very much. Guys older than me by 20 years, shorter and fatter could kick harder and longer than me. As I read up more, I realised I was narrow-minded and mistaken to think my condition in running/sprint could be translated to better stamina in martial arts conditioning. It does help, of course, but it's just not the same thing.



A good illustration. I tried earlier--but obviously failed--to say this same thing.  Not that fitness is unimportant, but how we get that fitness and whether it applies to MA is the crucial question, IMHO. Good discussion, though, from all sides.


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## Adept (Mar 23, 2007)

silatman said:


> So what do people think, is stamina that important? and how long does the 'average' streetfight last?



I've seen a lot of very unfit people 'win' a lot of barfights. Stamina very rarely seems to be an issue. Sometimes a fight will drag on for a minute or two, and sometimes as a bouncer I'll need to operate at full-steam for several minutes as multiple people need to be ejected one after the other.

I think anaerobic stamina is more important than aerobic stamina. In other words, if you can operate at 100% full speed for a couple of minutes, you'll have a powerful advantage over your opponent who might start slacking off after ten or fifteen seconds.


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## Gray Phoenix (Mar 23, 2007)

Fight may last up to a minute, assuming a no rule street fight. Fitness is still VERY important. It greatly increases the survivability of the hits you recieve and the effectiveness of your own attacks.


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## wade (Mar 23, 2007)

I've been in a couple of very small altercations. Unless I go to the ground I've never had to hit anyone more than twice. I've taken a couple hard shots (broken jaw, broken nose twice) it never really slowed me down. Oh, other than having my nose reset and my jaw wired together for 6 weeks. A trained fighter does have an edge on acceptance of pain. Anyway, when I do go to the ground I tend to cause more damage because I have more time to focus on what I am doing, so, cardio for sport is very important but for fighting not so much.


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