# Solo training, forms and "shadow boxing" with sticks.



## geezer (May 8, 2020)

Helloooo! Anyone there??? --With everything shut down over most of the country, nobody's posting anything. Are any of you training on your own, working out solo routines? I've been doing that a bit, and also working one-on-one with one or two students outside at a park, doing staff work, forms, and drills that allow us to maintain safe "social distancing", spaced well apart in the open air. 

I've stopped charging fees too. So it's just a couple of friends training at a park. If anybody get's sick (in spite of distancing, masks, hand sanitizer, and everything else) ....nobody's paying for instruction, and nobody else is responsible. The understanding between us is that _it's on us._ We're making our own choices, and trying to be responsible for ourselves, we are modifying our behavior, but we aren't giving up completely.

So am I nuts? Personally, I feel like if I don't get out of the house a little, I will go "eff-ing" nuts!!!

--Any thoughts?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 8, 2020)

So first: keep in mind, if any of you are living with someone else, you can get them sick. So it's on you if you get sick, but also on you if your wife/kid/niece/parent gets sick as well.

Now to the idea of the post. I've been mostly doing solo drills in my backyard. A mixture of actual drills like the seguidas, five attacks with various triangle footwork, abecidario, a watik drill, 4 walls drill + form, a couple other miscellanious espada/daga/espada + daga drills. And then when I get bored of those I put on some traditional filipino music and flow through them. I've found that it really helps clear my head and work on my own mini-combinations. I'm also slowly starting to put them all, along with the my old shaolin kempo forms/combinations, on video to make a personal library for when I get old and forget. 

The only partner work I'm doing is teaching my fiancee five attacks and dakup y puno. I may teach her more, but she's not really interested-it's more for me to interact with a stick than anything else.


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## Headhunter (May 9, 2020)

This is exactly why this damm thing has gotten so bad in the first place. Peoples stupid attitude saying oh well if it happens it happens I don't care. Well fine but what if one of you gets infected then goes to the shop and infects a shop worker who goes home to their family and infects them and say one of their family is a doctor or nurse and they go to work and infect more people.

Train by yourself fine but doing that...frankly it's a silly idea and a selfish one that could put a whole bunch of people at risk and could end up meaning everything's closed a lot longer. Best idea is suck it up and do what your meant to be doing so we can get this over with


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## _Simon_ (May 9, 2020)

Yep, I'm still postin! And been sharing what stuff I've been doing, but I completely understand people needing time away from screens... I'm the same, it's been HURTING my face to be on screens so I've needed space from them haha.


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## Flying Crane (May 9, 2020)

And keep in mind, you can be contagious for days without having any symptoms yourself.  Some people never get symptoms.  So it can be easy to spread without knowing it, when you go to the grocery store, etc.   it isn’t just limited to other people in your household.  

Keep up with the self-quarantine.  This isn’t over.  I am very concerned that states are opening too soon and we are gonna see some very bad results coming our way because of it.

To the rest of the thread, training on my own (outside of class, when I’m not with my instructor) is something I’ve been doing for as long as I’ve been in martial arts.  So that is easy, I’ve got space in my yard and garage.  And I’ve been teaching my household White Crane three times a week, and leading them in strength training three times a week.  That is my wife, her sister, and our son (age six).


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## Danny T (May 9, 2020)

Still training. One on one, semi-privates, and small groups of no more than 10.


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## Danny T (May 9, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So first: keep in mind, if any of you are living with someone else, you can get them sick. So it's on you if you get sick, but also on you if your wife/kid/niece/parent gets sick as well.
> 
> Now to the idea of the post. I've been mostly doing solo drills in my backyard. A mixture of actual drills like the seguidas, five attacks with various triangle footwork, abecidario, a watik drill, 4 walls drill + form, a couple other miscellanious espada/daga/espada + daga drills. And then when I get bored of those I put on some traditional filipino music and flow through them. I've found that it really helps clear my head and work on my own mini-combinations. I'm also slowly starting to put them all, along with the my old shaolin kempo forms/combinations, on video to make a personal library for when I get old and forget.
> 
> The only partner work I'm doing is teaching my fiancee five attacks and dakup y puno. I may teach her more, but she's not really interested-it's more for me to interact with a stick than anything else.


Work the basic weapon movement drills with footwork, the 5-Attack striking matrix, the different technique sequences within the Seguidas sets, the EyD combinations, and incorporate them into your caranza training.


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## geezer (May 9, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> This is exactly why this damm thing has gotten so bad in the first place. Peoples stupid attitude saying oh well if it happens it happens I don't care. Well fine but what if one of you gets infected then goes to the shop and infects a shop worker who goes home to their family and infects them and say one of their family is a doctor or nurse and they go to work and infect more people.Train by yourself fine but doing that...frankly it's a silly idea and a selfish one that could put a whole bunch of people at risk and could end up meaning everything's closed a lot longer. Best idea is suck it up and do what your meant to be doing so we can get this over with



I totally _get_ what you're saying. Personally, I don't feel that training, spread out in a large, open area with one or two other people doing staff forms, striking drills, footwork, and so forth, is overly risky behavior. I admit I should and _will_ be more careful about requiring continuous mask use and keep my hand sanitizer handy. I did ask my training partners to go so far as to mark the handle of their sticks so that they are always held by the same end rather than the normal practice of often switching ends and possibly contaminating each others weapons.

Honestly, right now I'm more worried about my wife. She's been called back into work as a dental hygienist. And even with all the safety protocols, she is in close physical contact with a lot of people and exposed to a lot of aerosolized saliva from the equipment used.

And, talking about being at risk, I'm a 64 year-old public school teacher working from home (right now), but it looks like we will be going back to the classroom next fall. At least that's how things seem to be trending here. People are beginning to get more afraid of the economic meltdown than the serious risks posed by covid19. The fact is the two risks are intertwined. If enough people are out of work, lose their health insurance, and run out of savings, there will be huge public health consequences. And we could very well end up in a second Great Depression.


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## Headhunter (May 9, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Still training. One on one, semi-privates, and small groups of no more than 10.


No more than 10?.....most places I've been around 10 is a regular class size


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 9, 2020)

My students ask me to teach them solo form (keep social distance). I have not taught any solo form in the past 15 years. I don't feel like to go back to form teaching/training any more. I feel I have much more important things to do with my time.

I ask my students to translate principle/strategy into techniques.

For example, here are some principles/strategies:

1. Attack north, when opponent resists, borrow his force and attack south.
2. Attack north, when opponent escapes, continue attack north.
3. Use linear attack, when opponent resists, change into circular attack.
4. Use circular attack, when opponent resists, change into linear attack.
5. Attack opponent's leading leg, when he steps back, attack his back leg.
6. Attack opponent's right side, when he resists, attack his left side.
7. Use kick to set up another kick.
8. Use kick to set up punch.
9. Use punch to set up another punch.
10. Use punch to establish clinch.
11. ...

If people can just come up 5 techniques from each principle/strategy, they can come up 50 techniques (or combo sequence) from the above list.

This will force students to think and create. When they send me their video, I can then discuss with them on the phone.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 9, 2020)

Today I taught my fiancee basic knife defenses, and we went back and forth in my backyard trying to stab each other. Fun times.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 9, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Work the basic weapon movement drills with footwork, the 5-Attack striking matrix, the different technique sequences within the Seguidas sets, the EyD combinations, and incorporate them into your caranza training.


Anything else you would recommend I do while doing caranza flow? We don't do that in my dojo often since we share the floor with another group that has control of the music.


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## JowGaWolf (May 9, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So first: keep in mind, if any of you are living with someone else, you can get them sick. So it's on you if you get sick, but also on you if your wife/kid/niece/parent gets sick as well.


Real life situation in with some of my family members.   There's a possibility that 10 or more family members may have COVID-19 via  a child that they babysit.  My mom's side of the family are really close, hugging type family.  If they have been visiting each other then there's a good chance that 10 or more will test positive.  The baby's mother (ex girlfriend of cousin) got the virus from her brother, which would expose everyone who has "kissed the child" or visited each other.

#1 rule at my house.  Family that doesn't live in the house can't visit and vise versa.  It only takes one person to be exposed to make life miserable for others.  The last time I mention COVID in Martial Talk was to say a renter from one of my parent's property caught it.  Now I'm sitting here talking about how it more than one of my family members may now have it.  They won't know until they get sick (14 days or less) or if they get tested.  Just something for everyone to think about.  In Georgia there's a feeling in the air that the Virus "isn't a danger anymore".  People are starting to get slack.  Don't get slack.


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## JowGaWolf (May 9, 2020)

I'm still training.  I train with my son from time to time, but mainly conditioning.  I don't meet with people outside of my house unless it's someone who works at a store and I'm buying something that I need, (medicine, food, personal products).   I've been exploring how to use everyday things as training tools. I haven't figured out what I'm going to design for my bone training.   I was thinking of using something like a wooden dummy but I want to have more movement than what that allows.


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## _Simon_ (May 9, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> And keep in mind, you can be contagious for days without having any symptoms yourself.  Some people never get symptoms.  So it can be easy to spread without knowing it, when you go to the grocery store, etc.   it isn’t just limited to other people in your household.
> 
> Keep up with the self-quarantine.  This isn’t over.  I am very concerned that states are opening too soon and we are gonna see some very bad results coming our way because of it.



Yep, I feel the same... I'm trying not to be overly paranoid or over the top, but I find myself getting more anxious about the easing of restrictions. Tomorrow will be announced a slight easing of restrictions in our state, and a great deal of people still at the moment are not taking it seriously, so I don't know how this will pan out.

Our state has been the most rigid with lockdowns, and I actually applaud that. It will not be pretty if there's a massive second wave... but just trying to focus on what I'm doing.


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## Danny T (May 10, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> No more than 10?.....most places I've been around 10 is a regular class size


Normal classes are around 30


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## Danny T (May 10, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Anything else you would recommend I do while doing caranza flow? We don't do that in my dojo often since we share the floor with another group that has control of the music.


Don't need music for caranza. It's like shadow boxing but with a weapon. Just do the striking patterns you know. Do you have the 36 Seguidas technique combinations? Work them as your caranza. What about the Solo Baston Contradas  or Recontras? You said you do some of the EyD drills. Work the Attacks sequences, the EyD Contrada and Recontra sequences. It's tough to do the break-in/break-out, segang labo, and chekete and etchekete drills without a partner but you can work through the movements as a caranza. Caranza is up to you, do whatever you know just keep moving. Double stick, EyD, Single stick, knife, double knife, empty hands. Do it all.


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## Buka (May 10, 2020)

I train alone, I have plenty to work on. I've been doing a lot of knife drills, a lot of combos and a ton of footwork.

And I don't mind training alone, it's kind of fun. The view ain't bad, either.


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## _Simon_ (May 11, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Don't need music for caranza. It's like shadow boxing but with a weapon. Just do the striking patterns you know. Do you have the 36 Seguidas technique combinations? Work them as your caranza. What about the Solo Baston Contradas  or Recontras? You said you do some of the EyD drills. Work the Attacks sequences, the EyD Contrada and Recontra sequences. It's tough to do the break-in/break-out, segang labo, and chekete and etchekete drills without a partner but you can work through the movements as a caranza. Caranza is up to you, do whatever you know just keep moving. Double stick, EyD, Single stick, knife, double knife, empty hands. Do it all.


I have literally NO idea what any of this means.... but I found it fascinating


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## geezer (May 11, 2020)

_Simon_ said:


> I have literally NO idea what any of this means.... but I found it fascinating



Yep. Fascinating! I've been doing FMA for a long time and I only got about half of what Danny was saying. I mean, for example, "EyD" ???  I dunno. Maybe "Espada y Daga"? 

Different FMA systems use different terminologies. My first instructor was Filipino-American and preferred very simple English terms for most things. A lot of the central and northern Filipino systems use a lot of Spanish terms since Spanish was the "language of prestige" in colonial times. Ironic since FMA was used against the Spanish by resistance and independence movements, eh? Anyway the Philippines are a culturally and linguistically diverse place.


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## Danny T (May 11, 2020)

Sorry...
Carenza, is like shadow boxing but using any and all the weapon categories of the Filipino Martial Art you are practicing.
The terminology EyD is Espada y Daga. Seguidas in Pekiti-Tirsia are 3 sets of 12 intermediate level weapon technique combinations. The first set of 12 cover largo or long range to medio range and back to largo. The 2nd set covers Largo through medio to close, and the 3rd set covers mostly close range, takedowns, working on your knees, and getting back to your feet.
Solo Baston Contradas are Single stick or short sword countering techniques vs an opponent who either is bigger and stronger than you, or has a heavier weapon than you, or both. The Recontras are countering attacks vs an opponent who has a lighter weapon than you, or that you are the stronger of the two, or both.
Break in/Break out drills are countering drills meeting the opponent's force and immediately moving behind the force to counter strike using the energy of the force to striking behind it. Segang labo drills are very similar to Hubud Lubud and are used with all weapon categories.
Chekete and Etchekete drills are counter thrusting drills. Chekete would be a parrying of the opponent's weapon while performing a direct countering thrust. Etchekete would be a parrying of the weapon with your weapon, gaining some sort of control of the weapon arm and then a thrusting attack.


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## geezer (May 11, 2020)

I came across this today, give it a look:


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## Danny T (May 11, 2020)

geezer said:


> I came across this today, give it a look:


This was put together by my friends and fellow pekiti-tirisa practitioners Jack Latorre and Ppaulo Rubio. 
Check out  The Global Karenza Project


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## geezer (May 11, 2020)

Danny T said:


> This was put together by my friends and fellow pekiti-tirisa practitioners Jack Latorre and Ppaulo Rubio.
> Check out  The Global Karenza Project



Yeah, I recognized Jack(at 1:34). I've never met him in person (I'm in Arizona and he's in upstate New York) but I trained for years with his big brother Jeff LaTorre out in Gilbert, AZ ...and the two look quite a bit alike, except Jeff is shaved bald. BTW Jeff also trained Pekiti with Tuhon Bill McGrath before taking up DTE with Martin Torres. Anyway, I found this video really motivating!


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## Danny T (May 11, 2020)

geezer said:


> Yeah, I recognized Jack(at 1:34). I've never met him in person (I'm in Arizona and he's in upstate New York) but I trained for years with his big brother Jeff LaTorre out in Gilbert, AZ ...and the two look quite a bit alike, except Jeff is shaved bald. BTW Jeff also trained Pekiti with Tuhon Bill McGrath before taking up DTE with Martin Torres. Anyway, I found this video really motivating!


I've never had the pleasure of meeting Jeff however am aware of his skill and knowledge. Jack and I came up through the system together from back around 92 to today. The past several years Jack, myself, Scott Faulk, and Tuhon Bill are the staff instructors for the Pekiti-Tirsia International yearly camp so I get to see Jack at least once a year.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 12, 2020)

Danny T said:


> Sorry...
> Carenza, is like shadow boxing but using any and all the weapon categories of the Filipino Martial Art you are practicing.
> The terminology EyD is Espada y Daga. Seguidas in Pekiti-Tirsia are 3 sets of 12 intermediate level weapon technique combinations. The first set of 12 cover largo or long range to medio range and back to largo. The 2nd set covers Largo through medio to close, and the 3rd set covers mostly close range, takedowns, working on your knees, and getting back to your feet.
> Solo Baston Contradas are Single stick or short sword countering techniques vs an opponent who either is bigger and stronger than you, or has a heavier weapon than you, or both. The Recontras are countering attacks vs an opponent who has a lighter weapon than you, or that you are the stronger of the two, or both.
> ...


The cool thing about this is that I understood everything you stated. I reread the thread and realized two years ago from both your posts and mine I'd be completely lost. An interest way to realize I've improved (my knowledge at least).


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## Danny T (May 12, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> The cool thing about this is that I understood everything you stated. I reread the thread and realized two years ago from both your posts and mine I'd be completely lost. An interest way to realize I've improved (my knowledge at least).


Well, I'm glad you understood it. LOL...Many don't seem to understand much of what I say.


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## Danny T (May 12, 2020)

Here is a playlist of Karenza taken for The Global Karenze Project under Jack Latorre and Ppaulo Rubio
Check them out:
The Global Karenza Project Library - YouTube


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## geezer (May 20, 2020)

Here's my old teacher (haven't worked with him personally in a very long time) explaining our approach to "forms". Very different from TMA where the forms are set in stone, so to speak. What starts out being trained as a "form" gradually expands, and ends up being pretty much a karenza.






Forms in PCE (my school based on Latosa Concepts): I teach about half-a dozen kata-like patterns, each with several variations. We start with a fixed pattern teaching specific techniques and concepts. We work each pattern three ways: slow for_ flow_, fast for _speed_, heavy for _power_. Then we combine all three.

Later we expand each section, adding follow-up hits and practicing different combinations, changing the footwork from linear to off-lining, from power-side (southpaw) lead to alternating leads, from aggressively advancing, to moving laterally, or retreating. Then working against a partner who feeds us hits ...and moves, so we have to use distance and timing. First in the pre-arranged order, then at random.

Finally, you leave the form behind, or make it _so personal and flexible_ that, with a partner, it verges on sparring, and done solo, it is pure karenza.


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