# My Short Workout



## raw-power.eu (Aug 4, 2019)

Short montage of training with RAW-POWER Force Sensor.


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## jobo (Aug 4, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Short montage of training with RAW-POWER Force Sensor.


what unit are the read outs in ?


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## Buka (Aug 4, 2019)

Welcome to Martial Talk, Raw-power.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 4, 2019)

jobo said:


> what unit are the read outs in ?



The units are in kilograms.


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## jobo (Aug 4, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> The units are in kilograms.


why ? they should ideally be in lbs per inch or Newton meters, if you measuring force or joules if you measuring energy


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 4, 2019)

jobo said:


> why ? they should ideally be in lbs per inch or Newton meters, if you measuring force or joules if you measuring energy



which ever you can understand and picture the number to a force is the best.     Like with any unit, i personally can only see Psi yet were taught newtons, weird as hell i know.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 4, 2019)

Can anyone give me some context for those numbers?  I have no idea if they are impressive or not.


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## jobo (Aug 4, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> Can anyone give me some context for those numbers?  I have no idea if they are impressive or not.


get you bath room scale and punch it, notice the deflection in kg, then you have a point of reference, as though his pad is nice to look at, its only really a bathroom scale screwed to the wall


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 4, 2019)

I dont fully get how this works, but im assuming its measuring punching power. 

Why are some strikes so much more powerful then others? Ard you purposefully feathering your punches? If so, fine. If not, you might want to focus on getting them all consistent. That wouls be a cool way to check my own consistency-might have to make my own.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> why ? they should ideally be in lbs per inch or Newton meters, if you measuring force or joules if you measuring energy



It will depend on the region. EU prefers kilograms, US prefers pounds. Both are supported.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> get you bath room scale and punch it, notice the deflection in kg, then you have a point of reference, as though his pad is nice to look at, its only really a bathroom scale screwed to the wall



Actually that is not so simple. You need fast sensor with 500+ kilogram (1100+ pounds), smooth the signal and detect the peak.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I dont fully get how this works, but im assuming its measuring punching power.
> 
> Why are some strikes so much more powerful then others? Ard you purposefully feathering your punches? If so, fine. If not, you might want to focus on getting them all consistent. That wouls be a cool way to check my own consistency-might have to make my own.



Yes, you are right. Consistency is important - especially during the whole round. BUT you have to consider a few factors:
1) fatigue and exhaustion
2) different punches > jab -VS- cross -VS- body blows
3) body position > safe distance -VS- target penetration

About the numbers. No, the are not impressive. Most of my "good" strikes are around 100 kg (220 lb). My hardest strikes can reach over 250 kg (550 lb). Of course, professional athlet can strike harder! But thanks to feedback I adapt my training.

If you like this device, you can find more information here: RAW-POWER.EU - Force Sensor for Martial Arts


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## jobo (Aug 5, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Actually that is not so simple. You need fast sensor with 500+ kilogram (1100+ pounds), smooth the signal and detect the peak.


I'm not doubting the quality or accuracy of the device, what I'm trying to understand is what it's measuring, so I could do comparison with stated punching power measured on other devices.

as its giving a read out in kg,it seems to me its measuring effective mass and not  force energy or power, that would make it useful fOr measuring your own progress against ann arbitrary number or for comparison with some one using the same equipment. but not at all if I googled " power ,,  force of a boxers punch

as energy is a half times mass timed acceleration, then in very round termsy( if you ignore acceleration or assume out to be one metre per second per second) your device will read twice as high as the actual energy generated, which seems to be the case by the numbers your getting in that vid, as a very good punch has circa 150 joules  of energy so your 100 kg punch is circa 50 joules a  your 250 kg one 125


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> I'm not doubting the quality or accuracy of the device, what I'm trying to understand is what it's measuring, so I could do comparison with stated punching power measured on other devices.
> 
> it seems to me its measuring effective mass and not either force or power, that would make it useful fOr measuring your own progress against ann arbitrary number or for comparison with some one using the same equipment. but not at all if I googled " power ,,  force of a boxers punch
> 
> as energy is a half times mass timed acceleration, then in very round termsy( if you ignore acceleration) your device will read twice as high as the actual energy generated, which seems to be the case by the numbers your getting in that vid, as a good punch has circa 150 joules ( watts ) of energy so your 100 kg punch is circa 50 joules a  your 250 kg one 125



You have a very good point! In terms of physics, the best value would be N (Newton). But you would have to have extra accelerometers for trajectory and velocity and count with contact surface of the fist (and do not use gloves at all). It is complicated to measure and difficult to understand. 

The RAW-POWER Force Sensor displays numbers in kilograms / pounds. You are right - it is not a value of the force BUT you need a force to build these numbers! It is the impact force that acts on the impact surface. Imagine - if the impact surface will be your head than your head will suffer from THIS force. With bare hands, you can reach higher numbers than with gloves - it is true because gloves reduce impact force (for this reason you will sparring with 16oz gloves or higher to prevent the injury). It is not the same as other products based on accelerometers! With this kind of products you can "cheat" because you are able to swing very fast with your hand but with low impact force. The real force of the strike is based on the correct stance, body movement and weight transfer, speed, strengs, timing ... Such the force is measured by the RAW-POWER Force Sensor and displayed in measureable unit which is easy to understand for most people - easily verifiable and comparable. No fictional units or unmeaning digits as other products. 

Thanks.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 5, 2019)

Does MT know your trying to sell this here?


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

Xue Sheng said:


> Does MT know your trying to sell this here?



I am not selling it because actually it does not exist. What you see is the prototype which I would like to present on the crowfunding page in the future. Here I am looking for experienced people to rate it - whether they would welcome such a device.


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## jobo (Aug 5, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> You have a very good point! In terms of physics, the best value would be N (Newton). But you would have to have extra accelerometers for trajectory and velocity and count with contact surface of the fist (and do not use gloves at all). It is complicated to measure and difficult to understand.
> 
> The RAW-POWER Force Sensor displays numbers in kilograms / pounds. You are right - it is not a value of the force BUT you need a force to build these numbers! It is the impact force that acts on the impact surface. Imagine - if the impact surface will be your head than your head will suffer from THIS force. With bare hands, you can reach higher numbers than with gloves - it is true because gloves reduce impact force (for this reason you will sparring with 16oz gloves or higher to prevent the injury). It is not the same as other products based on accelerometers! With this kind of products you can "cheat" because you are able to swing very fast with your hand but with low impact force. The real force of the strike is based on the correct stance, body movement and weight transfer, speed, strengs, timing ... Such the force is measured by the RAW-POWER Force Sensor and displayed in measureable unit which is easy to understand for most people - easily verifiable and comparable. No fictional units or unmeaning digits as other products.
> 
> Thanks.


no mate it not measuring force at all, you admit as much in your opening line and then continue to use the term incorrectly for the rest of you missive.

it gives a number for comparison, but that number is not " force" that's aside from the fact its called a power meter and doesn't measure power either and if it did measure force ( which it doesn't)it still wouldn't be a power metre

I'm not sure what the laws are on false representation are in your jurisdiction, but in the uk selling a power meter that doesn't measure power would leave you open to criminal sanction


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> no mate it not measuring force at all, you admit as much in your opening line and then continue to use the term incorrectly for the rest of you missive.
> 
> it gives a number for comparison, but that number is not " force" that's aside from the fact its called a power meter and doesn't measure power either and if it did measure force ( which it doesn't)it still wouldn't be a power metre
> 
> I'm not sure what the laws are on false representation are in your jurisdiction, but in the uk selling a power meter that doesn't measure power would leave you open to criminal sanction



Yes, it measure the force. I explained it in the previous post. It is about how you look at that power (or force). Moreover, your statement is wrong - please look here because I do not want to retype it here: Force - Wikipedia


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## jobo (Aug 5, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Yes, it measure the force. I explained it in the previous post. It is about how you look at that power (or force). Moreover, your statement is wrong - please look here because I do not want to retype it here: Force - Wikipedia


no you clearly said it  doesn't measure " a value of force"  and it doesn't, you cant just settle on a definition of force that doesn't include the formula f  force because it serves your purpose

it's common on here for people to become mixed up and use various terms interchangeably whilst ignoring newton however your selling measuring instruments and its beholden on you to clearing represent what hey measure


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> no you clearly said it  doesn't measure " a value of force"  and it doesn't, you cant just settle on a definition of force that doesn't include the formula f  force because it serves your purpose
> 
> it's common on here for people to become mixed up and use various terms interchangeably whilst ignoring newton however your selling measuring instruments and its beholden on you to clearing represent what hey measure



Please, can you quote where I said it does not measure "a value of force"?
I recommend you to read Wikipedia first because you clearly do not understand what force is. You are definitely wrong.


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## jobo (Aug 5, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> You have a very good point! In terms of physics, the best value would be N (Newton). But you would have to have extra accelerometers for trajectory and velocity and count with contact surface of the fist (and do not use gloves at all). It is complicated to measure and difficult to understand.
> 
> The RAW-POWER Force Sensor displays numbers in kilograms / pounds. You are right _*- it is not a value of the force *BUT you need a force to build these numbers! It is the impact_ force that acts on the impact surface. Imagine - if the impact surface will be your head than your head will suffer from THIS force. With bare hands, you can reach higher numbers than with gloves - it is true because gloves reduce impact force (for this reason you will sparring with 16oz gloves or higher to prevent the injury). It is not the same as other products based on accelerometers! With this kind of products you can "cheat" because you are able to swing very fast with your hand but with low impact force. The real force of the strike is based on the correct stance, body movement and weight transfer, speed, strengs, timing ... Such the force is measured by the RAW-POWER Force Sensor and displayed in measureable unit which is easy to understand for most people - easily verifiable and comparable. No fictional units or unmeaning digits as other products.
> 
> Thanks.



underlined it for you, though why you can't remember what you posts a few mins ago ?


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## jobo (Aug 5, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Please, can you quote where I said it does not measure "a value of force"?
> I recommend you to read Wikipedia first because you clearly do not understand what force is. You are definitely wrong.


let's try it another way seems as your not grasping it, force is measure in newton metres, your read out is not in newton's its in kg, therefore on any definition it isn't measuring force, it measuring mass, kg being the si measurement for mass and not for force. this is akin to you arguing that a volt metre measures amps because there both electricity


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> underlined it for you, though why you can't remember what you posts a few mins ago ?



I know my English is not good but why did not you read that sentence to the end? I typed BUT in uppercase to show you how is the impact force interpreted. You clearly did not understand it.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> let's try it another way seems as your not grasping it, force is measure in newton metres, your read out is not in newton's its in kg, therefore on any definition it isn't measuring force, it measuring mass, kg being the si measurement for mass and not for force. this is akin to you arguing that a volt metre measures amps because there both electricity



In our world there are hundreds of forces (and maybe more). You even do a school mistake in your words! You typed "newton metres" - this value is used for example by torques. The RAW-POWER Force Sensor is NOT a torque. The kilograms or pounds are resultant of transducer (type of force sensor). The force applied is converted to the kilograms / pounds.

Please ask a friend who has experience in physics. I would like to talk about the use of device such as the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. I believe that thanks to feedback, everyone can adapt their training and look for weak points in stance, weight transfer, target penetration ...


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## jobo (Aug 6, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> In our world there are hundreds of forces (and maybe more). You even do a school mistake in your words! You typed "newton metres" - this value is used for example by torques. The RAW-POWER Force Sensor is NOT a torque. The kilograms or pounds are resultant of transducer (type of force sensor). The force applied is converted to the kilograms / pounds.
> 
> Please ask a friend who has experience in physics. I would like to talk about the use of device such as the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. I believe that thanks to feedback, everyone can adapt their training and look for weak points in stance, weight transfer, target penetration ...


ok iI bow out, you asK for feed back, but are not receptive to feed back that isn't undiluted praise.

to b clear  I think that is a useful object for measuring development, as you outline above, but I think your publicity needs to b clear about what IT IS measuring, and specifically that you can't make any useful comparisons witH " FORCE" measured on more sophisticate devices or the figures oft quoted on the interne as being good for certain martial arts or you will be getting a considerable number of returns once the truth dawns on them that they are punching harder than Mike tyson


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> ok iI bow out, you asK for feed back, but are not receptive to feed back that isn't undiluted praise.
> 
> to b clear  I think that is a useful object for measuring development, as you outline above, but I think your publicity needs to b clear about what IT IS measuring, and specifically that you can't make any useful comparisons witH " FORCE" measured on more sophisticate devices or the figures oft quoted on the interne as being good for certain martial arts or you will be getting a considerable number of returns once the truth dawns on them that they are punching harder than Mike tyson



I am also glad for negative reactions, but not for nonsense talk. On the market there are force measuring devices whose output is a unit of weight. I still do not understand why you think that is not true. From my point of view - the kilograms / pounds are far best unit for device like this. If you ask hundreds of people if they know anything about the Newton unit, 95 of them will not tell you anything. if you tell them that your stroke is 100 N, no one will know how much is it. BUT! Everyone knows kilograms / pounds and everyone can imagine how much is 100 kg (220 lb) stroke. I hope it is clearer now.


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## jobo (Aug 6, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> I am also glad for negative reactions, but not for nonsense talk. On the market there are force measuring devices whose output is a unit of weight. I still do not understand why you think that is not true. From my point of view - the kilograms / pounds are far best unit for device like this. If you ask hundreds of people if they know anything about the Newton unit, 95 of them will not tell you anything. if you tell them that your stroke is 100 N, no one will know how much is it. BUT! Everyone knows kilograms / pounds and everyone can imagine how much is 100 kg (220 lb) stroke. I hope it is clearer now.


because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force,  it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter,  you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your  not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that

I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product,

here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring
What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com


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## jobo (Aug 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com





jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com





jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com





jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com





jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com





jobo said:


> because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product, here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com



oops the quote function went a bit wild !

to put in context, if the acceleration is .5 ms/s then those figures are 100% ou and your 200 is only a 100, if it's 1.5 ms/s then they are a third to low and it should be 300, with ou that info the figures you get are meaningless to use for comparison
and that's ignoring the glaring error that its the mass of the target object you should be using to calculate and not the mass of the striker, that can only be USed tocalculate energy( power) and not force


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> oops the quote function went a bit wild !
> 
> to put in context, if the acceleration is .5 ms/s then those figures are 100% ou and your 200 is only a 100, if it's 1.5 ms/s then they are a third to low and it should be 300, with ou that info the figures you get are meaningless to use for comparison



Ask physics. He will explain it for you.

Very simply:
Force = Acceleration & Mass
-> Acceleration = stance + speed of an arm + power (and many more factors)
-> Mass = body weight + body weight transfer (and many more factors)
-> Force Sensor = kilograms / pounds (Acceleration & Mass include!)

If you speak Czech, I can give you a study work from college


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## jobo (Aug 6, 2019)

f


raw-power.eu said:


> Ask physics. He will explain it for you.
> 
> Very simply:
> Force = Acceleration & Mass
> ...


force equals mass( of the target object, not the person punching it) x acceleration of the target object. neither of which your are measuring
ke equals a half x mass of the person punching x velocity sqaured 

one of which your device is measuring, but your not calculating energy either, if you were measuring energ you could  convert it to force, but your not

so in plain terms what is it measuring ?


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> f
> 
> force equals mass( of the target object, not the person punching it) x acceleration of the target object. neither of which your are measuring



I do not know what you are reading, but find a better source. You obviously do not know anything about physics!


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## pdg (Aug 13, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Actually that is not so simple. You need fast sensor with 500+ kilogram (1100+ pounds), smooth the signal and detect the peak.



This could just be a language translation thing, but smoothing a signal and detecting a peak are mutually exclusive...

To smooth a signal you clip the peaks and raise the troughs.

To detect a peak you don't smooth, you essentially high pass filter it (only keep the very highest signal).

An analogue version of this is something like a damped pressure gauge - the needle movement is damped to remove the short term peaks and troughs, slowing the movement enough to read it rather than it jumping about with every pulse of a pump. That's smoothed and it destroys peak readings.

An old fashioned telltale rev counter is a peak reading instrument - a secondary needle is unsprung so stays at the highest figure recorded. If you smooth that 'signal' it's worthless because it never reaches the real peaks.

I haven't watched the video or looked into your prospective product at all, but I hope you're not really smoothing


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 13, 2019)

pdg said:


> This could just be a language translation thing, but smoothing a signal and detecting a peak are mutually exclusive...
> 
> To smooth a signal you clip the peaks and raise the troughs.
> 
> ...



Hello,

you are right. Low or high-pass filters change the signal which is not wanted. But I meant overall work with the signal - from power supply over voltage dividers to the amplifiers etc. The device works with low voltage and has a large AD conversion range. Proper work with the signal is necessary here. 

Alex.


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## pdg (Aug 13, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Hello,
> 
> you are right. Low or high-pass filters change the signal which is not wanted. But I meant overall work with the signal - from power supply over voltage dividers to the amplifiers etc. The device works with low voltage and has a large AD conversion range. Proper work with the signal is necessary here.
> 
> Alex.



I'm not denying that you have to process the signal in some way to obtain a meaningful peak measurement, just that the term "smoothing" isn't the correct term for the required processing.

You definitely need a smoothed and regulated power supply, because unintended voltage fluctuations are going to mess up your results.

But you don't want a smoothed output from your sensor if you're trying to grab a peak, which is how your initial statement read.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 13, 2019)

pdg said:


> I'm not denying that you have to process the signal in some way to obtain a meaningful peak measurement, just that the term "smoothing" isn't the correct term for the required processing.
> 
> You definitely need a smoothed and regulated power supply, because unintended voltage fluctuations are going to mess up your results.
> 
> But you don't want a smoothed output from your sensor if you're trying to grab a peak, which is how your initial statement read.



Hello,

maybe "adjust" is better word. I did not want to go into detail so I use word "smooth". We are in a forum where electronics is not what people care about.

Alex.


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## pdg (Aug 13, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Hello,
> 
> maybe "adjust" is better word. I did not want to go into detail so I use word "smooth". We are in a forum where electronics is not what people care about.
> 
> Alex.



I'd put "process" above those myself.

Adjust implies that you are modifying the readings, in a good or bad way.

Smooth is just incorrect from a technical standpoint.


And I just checked, I just barely qualify to be included in the group named "people", I'm on this forum and I care about technical specifics because it hints to me whether the other person might know what they're talking about 

If the first post I quoted was your only one, I would assume that English was your first language and that you didn't really know your subject.

Subsequent posts gave me clues that isn't the case, and it was a language barrier as opposed to a knowledge one. I'm happy now to assume that's the case here.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 13, 2019)

pdg said:


> I'd put "process" above those myself.
> 
> Adjust implies that you are modifying the readings, in a good or bad way.
> 
> ...



Yes, English is not my first language. I am glad we understand each other.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 19, 2019)

Hello all!

New, better quality videos with more information:














If you have a question, just ask.

Alex.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 20, 2019)

lol.  I just got home from a long day with brain mush.  A bunch of science blah blah blah.    Totally skipped over a lot context.

So here is my 7pm cave man feedback.

1. There's not a lot of give in the target, which means a person won't be able to hit that target with any serious power without risking a broken hand or wrist.

2. Pad is only good for linear punches.  I come from a circular fighting system soooo, it's not going to get a lot of mileage from people who like to throw non-linear punches.

3. Wing Chun guys would like it because they almost worship the linear concept.

Other than that  Keep following your dream, nothing is perfect the first time around.


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 21, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> lol.  I just got home from a long day with brain mush.  A bunch of science blah blah blah.    Totally skipped over a lot context.
> 
> So here is my 7pm cave man feedback.
> 
> ...



Hello,
thanks for your good points. I will try to answer them:

1. In the first place - you realized that the target is rock solid mounted on the wall. The striking surface is of the dumping foam to reduce the impact of the shock. Use of protective gloves including bandages to reduce risk of injury is a must - I belive this can be confirmed by every experienced boxer. Even light workout without pretective gears is risk (with any device). Secondly, it depends how you train Your hands. Years ago I trained a lot with a my ~90lb mid-heavy bag. Once I visited a friend who bought almost 2m height, >150lb heavy bag. I came to the bag and hit him as I was accustomed and I almost broke my hand! ... Is it clear? ... My hands were trained but not sufficiently strong-due to the bad habit of training with lighter and less resistance bag. I see this as an advantage for the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. Yes, it is rock solid but your hands will adapt which is wanted! Your hands will never be strong enough if you train with a light-mid heavy bag. Of course it is necessary to train slowly. I know it from my own experience. I am able to hit the target with maximum power and I do not remember when my wrist hurt, or I had some injuries - thanks to training with a rock solid target. ((I would be interested in the opinion of other people here))

2. It is not very good to see, but the striking surface is a rounded-like part of the heavy bag. It lowers the pressures in the wrist - it is more natural. You can throw direct punches like the jab, cross, hooks, body shots (or use a different part of a body like the elbow, knee, kick (if the space permits)). ((btw, what is a circular fighting system?))

3. I believe the device can be used by anyone. He/She does not have to be a fan of fighting sports. The device can be used as a fitness tool, for weight loss... with the ability to track progress in the long term.

Thank you.
Alex.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 21, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Years ago I trained a lot with a my ~90lb mid-heavy bag. Once I visited a friend who bought almost 2m height, >150lb heavy bag. I came to the bag and hit him as I was accustomed and I almost broke my hand! ... Is it clear? ... My hands were trained but not sufficiently strong-due to the bad habit of training with lighter and less resistance bag.


Your training didn't fail you.  It was your lack of understanding that you can't hit everything as if it was a 90lb bag.
Everyone I know has gone through this in some shape or form.  I don't know anyone who hasn't made this mistake.



raw-power.eu said:


> I see this as an advantage for the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. Yes, it is rock solid but your hands will adapt which is wanted!


This is an assumption that your hands will adapt,  You are already punching with gloves on and with supportive tape that helps hold the punching structure.  Take the gloves off and and do the same thing and all of the flaws will become evident. 

I'm not saying you don't understand any of this because you made this statement.  "Of course it is necessary to train slowly." Only people that understand will understand this much.  So I know you had enough bad punching experience to make you a believer of that.  I had my share of scraped knuckles from hitting a burlap bag, and wrists that gave away upon impact.  My lesson was the same as many others.  Train slowly first and build up to hitting hard.  Unfortunately, people who don't understand will get up there and start trying to blast away.  They even do it with bags that give.



raw-power.eu said:


> It is not very good to see, but the striking surface is a rounded-like part of the heavy bag.


 I definitely wasn't able to tell from the video. It looked fairly flat to me.

Circular fighting systems use punches that don't travel in a straight line.,  Technically the punches actually do travel in a line before impact, but the line is very small in comparison to a jab.  But the majority of the punch is circular with maybe 4 to 7 inches linear movement right before impact depending on the punching technique being moved.  The best way to think of it is like this picture where the bottom of the swing flattens out. 








This may be a better picture.  The part that flattens out is the point of impact.  As you ca see in the picture there is only a small part of the swing  that is linear.





In fighting the circular punches look like this. (This is not me by the way, but a person that trains the same system as me).







raw-power.eu said:


> I believe the device can be used by anyone. He/She does not have to be a fan of fighting sports. The device can be used as a fitness tool, for weight loss... with the ability to track progress in the long term.


People who like to throw circular punches tend to do so often and that requires some give.   I'm not saying to change your product because there aren't many of us in comparison to people who like to jab everything.

A circular punch would land on the side of that pad where the edge is.  like a baseball swing.


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## dvcochran (Aug 21, 2019)

raw-power.eu said:


> Actually that is not so simple. You need fast sensor with 500+ kilogram (1100+ pounds), smooth the signal and detect the peak.


May I ask specifically which type of sensor you are using? eg. strain, force, accelerometer, etc...?


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## raw-power.eu (Aug 22, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> May I ask specifically which type of sensor you are using? eg. strain, force, accelerometer, etc...?



I use strain gauge force sensors. I found that an accelerometer-based devices are not suitable if you want to get a measurable unit like pounds or kilograms.


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