# Wing Chun + Chang Quan



## Yoshiyahu (Feb 13, 2009)

What do you guys think about Crosstraining Wing Chun with a long range fighting style like Chang Quan or Muay Thai.

I hear alot of people endorsing a ground game. What about also supplementing your WC with a long range game. My Sifu said it would a good thing to have both outside and inside fighting. 

What about Wing Chun and Tan Tui or Springy legs(Snapping Kicks).


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## paulus (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> What do you guys think about Crosstraining Wing Chun with a long range fighting style like Chang Quan or Muay Thai.


Why don't you try it and then benefit us with your experience?


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## seasoned (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> What do you guys think about Crosstraining Wing Chun with a long range fighting style like Chang Quan or Muay Thai.
> 
> I hear alot of people endorsing a ground game. What about also supplementing your WC with a long range game. My Sifu said it would a good thing to have both outside and inside fighting.
> 
> What about Wing Chun and Tan Tui or Springy legs(Snapping Kicks).


 

Once we have learned the value of closing with an opponent in battle, the only other consideration is a ground game. Things to remember, we dont want a lot of distance, and we dont want a prolonged ground engagement. IMHO


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## bs10927 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> What do you guys think about Crosstraining Wing Chun with a long range fighting style like Chang Quan or Muay Thai.
> 
> I hear alot of people endorsing a ground game. What about also supplementing your WC with a long range game. My Sifu said it would a good thing to have both outside and inside fighting.
> 
> What about Wing Chun and Tan Tui or Springy legs(Snapping Kicks).




i think the guards would be different.


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## bowser666 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> What do you guys think about Crosstraining Wing Chun with a long range fighting style like Chang Quan or Muay Thai.
> 
> I hear alot of people endorsing a ground game. What about also supplementing your WC with a long range game. My Sifu said it would a good thing to have both outside and inside fighting.
> 
> What about Wing Chun and Tan Tui or Springy legs(Snapping Kicks).



Tan tui is just a training sequence and not actually a style. I totally agree with training in multiple styles for terms of working on short range and mid-long range tactics.  The school I am at we train in CHang Chuan and Xingyi Chuan , Longfist and Southern 5 Animals. We also do Shuai Jiao and China extensively as well, for the submission and wrestling aspects. The applications we train in are for non-lethal submission in a street/real life scenario. Its a very effective and cool combination. We also train in Yang Style Tai chi to develop internal aspects as well.  


Style doesn't necesarily matter as long as they train in the various ranges of combat , close , near, and far , and are versatile.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 13, 2009)

Lets say a Guy A has trained in Judo since he was a little boy. An now he is learning a Close combat fighting stlye...Do you see the benefit of learning long range fighting as well. It could help when your opponent disenegages from your punching range?



seasoned said:


> Once we have learned the value of closing with an opponent in battle, the only other consideration is a ground game. Things to remember, we dont want a lot of distance, and we dont want a prolonged ground engagement. IMHO


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 13, 2009)

I trained a bit of Changquan and a bit of Wing Chun (emphasis on a bit meaning not that much aka less than a year) and although I see nothing wrong with training both my very first thought was Why? they are both great styles but if you are looking for a style to complement Wing Chun I would not go with Changchuan. They are not all that different actually other that Southern close in fighting as opposed to Northern long range. They both pretty much depend on hands and feet for fighting and Changquan has its share of Qinna but to be honest I think you would be better off with something like Shuaijiao in combination with Wing Chun


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 13, 2009)

So why do you feel Shuaijiao is a better crossfit for WC. Why wouldnt Changquan be a good crossfit with WC??? Especially since it has long range techniques?




Xue Sheng said:


> I trained a bit of Changquan and a bit of Wing Chun (emphasis on a bit meaning not that much aka less than a year) and although I see nothing wrong with training both my very first thought was Why? they are both great styles but if you are looking for a style to complement Wing Chun I would not go with Changchuan. They are not all that different actually other that Southern close in fighting as opposed to Northern long range. They both pretty much depend on hands and feet for fighting and Changquan has its share of Qinna but to be honest I think you would be better off with something like Shuaijiao in combination with Wing Chun


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> So why do you feel Shuaijiao is a better crossfit for WC. Why wouldnt Changquan be a good crossfit with WC??? Especially since it has long range techniques?


 
It could fit but IMO they are not that much different in there approach to a fight other than range so that is why my first thought was "Why?" to me it is similar to (but certainly not the same as) would this lineage of Wing Chun fit well with this other lineage of Wing Chun well yes but why?

To be honest I have had the opinion for quite sometime that Wing Chun and Judo would be a great combination. But if you are staying within CMA you then go shuaijiao which now that I think about it would be a great combination in my opinion


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 13, 2009)

Well me I dont like ground fighting...never really have. I took Judo and Aikido for awhile as a kid. But thats because my parents would give me a rock when I asked for a fish. I always wanted to learn karate or kung fu as a kid. When I was really young I got enrolled in Aikido. My Uncle thought it would be good for me an give me balance. I hated it...It was cool but never could use the stuff in actual combat. I could only use what little stuff I learn in streets from other friends before I started learning real striking. An that wasnt until i was in high school....I dont like western martial arts per say but rather study boxing that judo...I can feel and adapt to striking alot better than wrestling or grappling. Always been my strong point i think.

If I did alot of weight lifting I might be more inclined to Wrestling but striking is something I am better at. I always was interested in the kicks of TKD or Northern Shaolin though.

I think Changquan would give a WC guy an advantage. Because if you have an opponent who is great at defense against kicks an can get inside quickly than your wc will defend the center line. if you have skilled center line fighter. Than attacking his gates from the outside may confuse him an cause him to change his strategy. 


Since you have taking both WC and CQ can you tell me how are they similiar?


Why do you conside judo and wrestling different?




Xue Sheng said:


> It could fit but IMO they are not that much different in there approach to a fight other than range so that is why my first thought was "Why?" to me it is similar to (but certainly not the same as) would this lineage of Wing Chun fit well with this other lineage of Wing Chun well yes but why?
> 
> To be honest I have had the opinion for quite sometime that Wing Chun and Judo would be a great combination. But if you are staying within CMA you then go shuaijiao which now that I think about it would be a great combination in my opinion


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 13, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Well me I dont like ground fighting...never really have. I took Judo and Aikido for awhile as a kid. But thats because my parents would give me a rock when I asked for a fish. I always wanted to learn karate or kung fu as a kid. When I was really young I got enrolled in Aikido. My Uncle thought it would be good for me an give me balance. I hated it...It was cool but never could use the stuff in actual combat. I could only use what little stuff I learn in streets from other friends before I started learning real striking. An that wasnt until i was in high school....I dont like western martial arts per say but rather study boxing that judo...I can feel and adapt to striking alot better than wrestling or grappling. Always been my strong point i think.
> 
> If I did alot of weight lifting I might be more inclined to Wrestling but striking is something I am better at. I always was interested in the kicks of TKD or Northern Shaolin though.
> 
> ...


 
First Shuaijiao in its truest form is not exactly ground fighting or Judo. It has qinna as many CMA styles do and Shuaijiao has throws, lot of them, but the idea is not so much to go to the ground and fight. It is to throw your opponent on the ground with as much force as possible so he can't get back up to fight. And Shuaijiao training is rather hard, there are example of it on YouTube and there is or use to be a good video on Shuaijiao form a rather old Shuaijiao guy that gives you an idea of what it is about. 

Judo, in it's truest form, that of Kano, is far from wrestling as well and it is also not really ground fighting and that is the type of Judo I am talking about not Olympic or modified but traditional if you will. Now if you are talking BJJ you are now at ground fighting and to be honest I have much respect for BJJ but I am not all that fond of ground fighting either.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 14, 2009)

I got a question why is Shuaijiao called wrestling by others???

Great explanation...thanks...

Also thankyou for reference on youtube...



Xue Sheng said:


> First Shuaijiao in its truest form is not exactly ground fighting or Judo. It has qinna as many CMA styles do and Shuaijiao has throws, lot of them, but the idea is not so much to go to the ground and fight. It is to throw your opponent on the ground with as much force as possible so he can't get back up to fight. And Shuaijiao training is rather hard, there are example of it on YouTube and there is or use to be a good video on Shuaijiao form a rather old Shuaijiao guy that gives you an idea of what it is about.
> 
> Judo, in it's truest form, that of Kano, is far from wrestling as well and it is also not really ground fighting and that is the type of Judo I am talking about not Olympic or modified but traditional if you will. Now if you are talking BJJ you are now at ground fighting and to be honest I have much respect for BJJ but I am not all that fond of ground fighting either.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 14, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> I got a question why is Shuaijiao called wrestling by others???


 
Closest thing the Chinese have to wrestling I guess and as with the terms "Kung Fu" and "wushu" a misunderstanding as to what it actually is. But if you go to a college wrestling match or the WWE D) and then go to a Shuaijiao match to compare you will likely see they are not the same.

If you want ground fighting in CMA I believe there is a dog style or dog boxing or something like that that is mostly on the ground.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Feb 14, 2009)

> Why do you conside judo and wrestling different?


 
The throws used in Judo differ from Western wrestling.

But you can see some similarties it is the same with Shuai Jiao.

If you look at Liang Shou Yu Chinese Fast wrestling he goes into the differences.




> I got a question why is Shuaijiao called wrestling by others???


 Most likely the best english defination.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 14, 2009)

Interesting dog boxing...Or there any videos on Dog style? 


Also with Kung fu or Wu Shu there are many different types of forms. Some are mostly kicks. others are mostly hands and then others are mostly grappling standing up. Wouldnt it be fair to say that if their are different forms of Kung Fu or Wu Shu that emphasizes different aspects from high stances to low stances to mostly kicks,to mostly hands than one could say there are different forms of wrestling from standing to ground fighting to throwing and sweeping?





Xue Sheng said:


> Closest thing the Chinese have to wrestling I guess and as with the terms "Kung Fu" and "wushu" a misunderstanding as to what it actually is. But if you go to a college wrestling match or the WWE D) and then go to a Shuaijiao match to compare you will likely see they are not the same.
> 
> If you want ground fighting in CMA I believe there is a dog style or dog boxing or something like that that is mostly on the ground.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 14, 2009)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Interesting dog boxing...Or there any videos on Dog style?
> 
> 
> Also with Kung fu or Wu Shu there are many different types of forms. Some are mostly kicks. others are mostly hands and then others are mostly grappling standing up. Wouldnt it be fair to say that if their are different forms of Kung Fu or Wu Shu that emphasizes different aspects from high stances to low stances to mostly kicks,to mostly hands than one could say there are different forms of wrestling from standing to ground fighting to throwing and sweeping?


 
Just about every single CMA has kicks/Punches, Qinna and Shuaijiao to varying degrees and I have no desire to get into classification of CMA into various western ideals of style division. The 3 basic divisions within CMA are kicks/punches, Qinna and Shuaijiao. The rests; multiple types of striking and various types of wrestling just become another reason to argue.


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## Yoshiyahu (Feb 14, 2009)

Interesting dog boxing...Or there any videos on Dog style? 



Xue Sheng said:


> Just about every single CMA has kicks/Punches, Qinna and Shuaijiao to varying degrees and I have no desire to get into classification of CMA into various western ideals of style division. The 3 basic divisions within CMA are kicks/punches, Qinna and Shuaijiao. The rests; multiple types of striking and various types of wrestling just become another reason to argue.


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