# Tiger Stance?



## InvisibleFist (Feb 26, 2004)

When I was training in Mo Duk Pai,  we had an unusual, and extremely effective stance.  It was called the "tiger stance."  It was as follows.

Front foot 45 * back foot straight.  Toes of each foot are on a line.  Rear heel off the ground. 

0 front back.  

Its an amazing stance.  It resemebles a fancers stance in that the minmum target is presented to the opponent,  it also resembles BRuce Lee's JKD stance, with the rear heel lifted.  

THe tiger stanc gives protection to your vulnerable parts (The groin is covered by the 45* turned front leg.  The back leg heel spring allows you to explode into explosive attacks.  With practice you can nibly leap around, constantly changing your direction.  

I wonder when this amazing stance was introduced to the MA.  Mo Duk Pai comes originally from Wun Hop Kuen Do, which is derived from Kajukembo, itself derived from kempo.  So I'm asking here.  Does the stance exist in Kempo?   Kajukembo?


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## MisterMike (Feb 26, 2004)

American Kenpo has a Twist Stance, but the front heel and rear toes are what are lined up. The rear heel is also off the floor. But it is a transitional stance, not one to stay in for very long unless you're posing for a picture and simultaneously doing something realllllly cool with your hands.


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## littleyahiko (Feb 26, 2004)

That description sounds like a stance I learned called a Sprinter's Neutral Bow, although I'm not sure if that was an informal name for it or not.  Basically it's like the neutral bow, only with the rear foot angled more forward with the heel off, like you said it's for explosive power, used for advancing and such, but it does trade off some of the defense of the standard neutral bow.


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## Kenpomachine (Feb 26, 2004)

I think that the name in english for the stance, EPAK wise, is a close kneel stance. But I may be wrong...


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## littleyahiko (Feb 26, 2004)

Kenpomachine said:
			
		

> I think that the name in english for the stance, EPAK wise, is a close kneel stance. But I may be wrong...



I didn't think InvisibleFist was talking about a close kneel stance because he was talking about how the body is covered and the close kneel stance as I know it has more of your center-line exposed because it is a lowered forward bow stance.  The sprinter's neutral bow I was referring to is a lot closer to a neutral bow with regard to the height.  The rear foot is angled so the toes are more pointed to 12 than a 45 degree angle, and the heel is just barely off the ground where you can slide a peice of paper underneath it, but nothing more, so you're ready for a quick advance with a pushdrag.  But I guess the easiest way to figure this out would be to see a picture of the stance he's talking about.


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## InvisibleFist (Feb 26, 2004)

Yes a picture would help...I'll see if I can dig one up.  Is there a section on this board where we can upload stuff?

It occurred to me that the tiger stance actually looks very much like the wing chun fighting stance with the addition of the raised heel.


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## 8253 (Feb 27, 2004)

InvisibleFist said:
			
		

> When I was training in Mo Duk Pai,  we had an unusual, and extremely effective stance.  It was called the "tiger stance."  It was as follows.
> 
> Front foot 45 * back foot straight.  Toes of each foot are on a line.  Rear heel off the ground.
> 
> ...




dosent sound stable for a fighting stance.  it seems like it would be easier to get off balance or someone to sidestep around you.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 27, 2004)

littleyahiko said:
			
		

> That description sounds like a stance I learned called a Sprinter's Neutral Bow.


That's what it sounded like to me as well.  Like you said, you sacrifice some of your stability to gain increased mobility.  I use this stance quite a bit when I'm sparring or doing spontaneous (depending on what I'm actually doing).


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## OUMoose (Feb 27, 2004)

If it's what I'm picturing in my head, it's very similar to a stance we used when I was training in Kali.  Excellent mobility, and the stability is there once you get used to standing like that (it's very awkward at first since you almost feel pigeon-toed).


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## InvisibleFist (Feb 27, 2004)

> If it's what I'm picturing in my head, it's very similar to a stance we used when I was training in Kali. Excellent mobility, and the stability is there once you get used to standing like that (it's very awkward at first since you almost feel pigeon-toed).


Ah!  Maybe its Kali then!  I know that Sigung Dacascos studied FMA extensively, and Arnis was part of the Mo duk Pai curriculum.  Maybe I'll repost the question in the Kali forum. 


```
dosent sound stable for a fighting stance. it seems like it would be easier to get off balance or someone to sidestep around you.
```
 
It's EXTREMELY stable.  Unlike a Karate style stance, where you are rooted to the ground, this stance is constantly in motion, and your weight adjusts automatically if womebody tries to push you off balance.


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## Kenpomachine (Feb 28, 2004)

I've never heard of a sprinter's neutral bow before, so that's maybe why I'm thinking a close kneel...


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## InvisibleFist (Mar 8, 2004)

Here's a link to a picture,  the guy on the right is in a perfect tiger stance.


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## Kenpomachine (Mar 8, 2004)

Where's the link?


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## InvisibleFist (Mar 8, 2004)

Sorry.

http://www.geocities.com/glendoyle/bata/stance.html

Scroll down to the bottom and look at the guy on the right.


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## Kenpomachine (Mar 9, 2004)

Thank you. It looks like the stance my instructor keeps correcting on some people when they're supposed to be in a forward bow 

And it also has an air related to the step previous to some kicks in capoeira.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 13, 2004)

Kenpomachine said:
			
		

> "Tiger Stance"



Could you post an exact picture of the stance *you* are talking about?   Please....

 :asian:


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## Kenpomachine (Mar 13, 2004)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> Could you post an exact picture of the stance *you* are talking about?   Please....
> 
> :asian:


 That quote is from Invisible fist. And he has already posted a link to that picture.

I have heard of a dragon stance before, but not of a tiger stance.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 13, 2004)

Kenpomachine said:
			
		

> That quote is from Invisible fist. And he has already posted a link to that picture.
> 
> I have heard of a dragon stance before, but not of a tiger stance.



ahhhhhhh yes.... sorry I got the posts mixed up...... yes, I'm with you...I have not heard of a Tiger Stance either.....  still a little confused..  is that stance in the link they invisible fist posted the "Tiger Stance"?

:idunno:


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 13, 2004)

InvisibleFist said:
			
		

> When I was training in Mo Duk Pai,  we had an unusual, and extremely effective stance.  It was called the "tiger stance."  It was as follows.
> 
> Front foot 45 * back foot straight.  Toes of each foot are on a line.  Rear heel off the ground.
> 
> ...


This is how we teach our students to fight. The heel off the ground may lack that bracing angle so many like to achieve, but we enjoy the benefits of the heel up, and are happy for the trade off. Of course we reserve the right to put our heel down for a bracing angle when needed. The differences in the two are simple. One facilitates a launch and the other facilitates a settle. Why settle into a forward bow if you have your opponent on a retreat?
Sean


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