# Cane defence for Seniors



## DGF (Mar 23, 2008)

In my introduction, I am a newbie, I asked for directions to the right thread for my questions. Member Harold kindly directed me to this one.

I am a senior, 67 years old, with some minor disabilities. I walk for exercise on the many walking paths here in Reston VA. I am not a martial artist although I boxed in highschool and westled in college. I am not one of those senior citizens however that has kept himself in top shape. I ordered a cane from "Wooden Steel", oak, aggresive crook, octagonal shaft, brass tip with rubber bumper and a red oak finish. I also ordered a DVD on defence with a cane, (not that happy with it). Gang Graffiti has begun showing up on the walls of the underpaths here in Reston and I find myself being a little uncomfortable going un armed (although I have never been accosted), hence the interest in canes.

What I have found in my research on defence with a cane is a lot of martial arts moves that, quite frankly, are beyond my capabilities and probably beyond the capabilities of most men my age. I am not frail and I feel I have the ability to defend myself in some circumstances. One of my concerns is having the cane taken away from me and used against me. Many of the moves I see in the DVDs like overhead strikes appear to me to be the ideal way to put my cane into the hands of an attacker. Intuitivly I feel the need to keep both hands on the cane, and that my best strike would be the thrust. (I was in the army and had bayonet training) 

I would like to have somefeedback on the subject of Senior citizen defence and perhaps some suggestions on DVDs that adress our particular problem. There does not seem to be anyone in my area that teaches these disicplines.

Thank you in advance for your suggestions.


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## Drac (Mar 23, 2008)

Look into the "*Street Defenses for The Cane" *from CaneMasters....I believe it addresses the issues you have...


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## jks9199 (Mar 23, 2008)

I'm very familiar with the area you're talking about, and I wish I could tell you not to worry about it -- but that'd be a lie.  Not only is there a gang presence, but there are plenty of other predators, and they'll only increase of the next few years as our economy cycles downward.  FCPD is a very good department, and they work hard -- but they can't be everywhere, all the time.

A cane is a great option, and you're right; lots of the moves shown in videos are problematic at best.  Videos aren't a good option for learning, because they can't correct or guide you personally, and they can't adapt the techniques to fit your limitations.  You may want to consider a lanyard if you're worried about the cane being taken from you -- but the truth is that anyone likely to come after you is pretty likely to bring their own weapons.  Really, an even better set of tools for personal protection, especially among the elderly or infirm, is the combination of a walking buddy, and cell phones.  Two are less likely to be victimized than one, and a cell phone will let you call for help -- even in situations like falls or other medical emergencies.

If you'd like to send me a private message, I may be able to offer some more direct help.


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## Brad Dunne (Mar 23, 2008)

"a lot of martial arts moves that, quite frankly, are beyond my capabilities"

This is  a subject I've professed upon for many years. You are correct in keeping both hands upon the cane, as much as possible. Actually, forget almost all of the "martial arts" moves and use basic common sense. Strikes must be kept to a tight circle and straight line jabs. Think low, into the groin and the legs. Your stance should be somewhat like a boxer. Lead foot forward around 11 or 12 and rear foot around 4 or 5 (clock being used for reference), not to wide, but wide enough for strong stability. If you move, this stance allows you to go on 45% angles, remember how to skate, it's the same movement. This lets you get in closer, if you need/have to, buts places you on a good angle to do damage, but leaves the attacker in a bad angle. Now is when you can strike the head with short twisting cane movement (one hand high-one hand low, holding cane in the high middle). When attacker goes down, DON'T let get back up. 
Take care and keep practicing...........


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## DGF (Mar 23, 2008)

Thank you for your advice. I do carry a cell phone. My first self defence move is to avoid having to use self defence. I lived in bad neighborhoods in Chicago and my street sense is fairly good. My radar is fairly sensitive and has served me well in the past. I do not intentionally walk into "iffy" situations.

I do not carry credit cards or much cash when I walk. I would gladly give up the cash rather than fight. But, that being said, there are still situations, extreme as they might be, that might force me to resort to some defence. If it ever came to that it would mean that I would want to take out and disable an attacker as quickly and decisively as I could. If I have to fight,(flight is not an option, as I would be easily overtaken) It will only be in a desperate move to protect myself. So, I am working on my own method, developing moves that I feel confident with. My own Tai Chi if you will. I am starting from scratch without a martial arts background, but I wish there were some kind of instruction for people in my category, (why reinvent the wheel ?). 

I will not prevail in a long fight against a young adversary I need to take them out immediately and make them unable to continue. The last thing I want to do is just hurt them enough to make them angry. They need to go down long enough for me to walk away and call 911. 

I know this is a tall order, but I don't believe it is impossible. I refuse to let myself be forced into being so timid that I am afraid leave the house. Besides, carrying a cane makes me feel better about myself and gives me some confidence, not "false" I hope.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 23, 2008)

think as that cane as a bat or a spear.
keep the moves tight and do not over swing

most stuff you will find on videos is "SHOW" and of little use (IMHO)
if someone grabs that cane punch or kick them do not struggle for the cane but attack with everything else you have or RUN


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## DGF (Mar 23, 2008)

Thank you all for your advice. I wonder about the power of a cane. I have no doubt a thrust using hips and legs into the solar plexis, groin, liver ect would be effective, but would it disable someone? I would think a swing with a cane kept low to an ankle or knee would make it difficult for the attacker to grab the cane. Is it best to hit on the outside of the knee or on the inside, same with the ankle? If well hit, remember, hit by me not Sammy Sosa, will it break a bone? Also it is recomended by my DVD to hit for the collar bone if possible, would I break a collar bone? 

I would only use these techniques as an absolute last resort, even after crying like a little girl and begging for him not to hurt me, LOL.


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## ArmorOfGod (Mar 23, 2008)

If you want a very good online group that deals with cane defense, try:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/PerfectWeapon/
You have to have a Yahoo ID to use the group, but it is worth checking out.

AoG


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## jks9199 (Mar 23, 2008)

DGF said:


> Thank you for your advice. I do carry a cell phone. My first self defence move is to avoid having to use self defence. I lived in bad neighborhoods in Chicago and my street sense is fairly good. My radar is fairly sensitive and has served me well in the past. I do not intentionally walk into "iffy" situations.
> 
> I do not carry credit cards or much cash when I walk. I would gladly give up the cash rather than fight. But, that being said, there are still situations, extreme as they might be, that might force me to resort to some defence. If it ever came to that it would mean that I would want to take out and disable an attacker as quickly and decisively as I could. If I have to fight,(flight is not an option, as I would be easily overtaken) It will only be in a desperate move to protect myself. So, I am working on my own method, developing moves that I feel confident with. My own Tai Chi if you will. I am starting from scratch without a martial arts background, but I wish there were some kind of instruction for people in my category, (why reinvent the wheel ?).
> 
> ...


Nor is that something I want!  

It's great to me that you recognize your personal capabilities, and are seeking ways to maintain them (heath & exercise) and maintain your lifestyle by not ceding the streets to the punks.


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## terryl965 (Mar 23, 2008)

Drac said:


> Look into the "*Street Defenses for The Cane" *from CaneMasters....I believe it addresses the issues you have...


 
I would have to agree with Drac.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 23, 2008)

As we get older it is important to note that we will
not be winning any battles with strength. Instead
we must be wise and cunning. A cane is a formidable
tool if you are willing to take the time and effort
into practicing with it. There are alot of methods
of striking while holding it with two hands. I wish you
the best and good luck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Here is Ed Martin's website:
http://www.pennsylvaniabujinkan.com/

And his self defense for everyone tape 
http://members.aol.com/janikvideo/4.html
I have not seen this video but several 
people have commented that it was good.

I know that he has some cane videos that
several friends have recommended as well.
Just email him and I am sure he can help you
out.

I have trained with Ed and he is older and has
arthritis.  He uses moves that can work for an old
man. (that is what he say's not me)

Once again good luck and train and learn to
protect yourself.


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## matt.m (Mar 23, 2008)

Even though I am a hapkidoan that practices the 10 gup rank cane techniques daily, I am a military vet that has to walk with one at the ripe old age of 33.

Anyway, the best advice is to yell "Fire", I have a 2 inch thick heartwood oak cane that I walk with, out of necessity from prior military injuries.  So if you have the option, please invest in a nice thick cane.  When you strike with it use baseball type swing, or a reaping pull.

The option I hope for you is that you never have to defend yourself.  Although, I do hope that swinging a cane like a cycil or baseball bat is your best bet.

Good luck my friend.


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## Drac (Mar 23, 2008)

DGF said:


> Thank you all for your advice. I wonder about the power of a cane. I have no doubt a thrust using hips and legs into the solar plexis, groin, liver ect would be effective, but would it disable someone? I would think a swing with a cane kept low to an ankle or knee would make it difficult for the attacker to grab the cane. Is it best to hit on the outside of the knee or on the inside, same with the ankle? If well hit, remember, hit by me not Sammy Sosa, will it break a bone? Also it is recomended by my DVD to hit for the collar bone if possible, would I break a collar bone?


 
Go for a shin strike doesn't need much power and it hurts like hell...As far as *WHERE *to hit???On whatever target presents itself....


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## charyuop (Mar 24, 2008)

Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??
A big dog is good enough to scare people and if they want to bother you anyway, it can keep them at distance the time to call 911. Not to mention they are good friends and good company. Training a dog is easier than learning MA moves that could get you more hurt since as you said you didn't keep up the good shape.
You said the problem is because of gangs and I don't think gang people walk around alone, which will make self defence more complicated.

Learning some self defense stuff is good, I am not advicing against it, on the contrary. What I am advicing against is solely counting on the cane and the skills you might acquire as your personal defense. The suggestion of bringing someone with you is excellent, but if you can't a dog is wonderful too. Walk always in areas where there are homes and in hours where most of the people are at home or not asleep. Might even carry a stone with you to throw to a window in case of emergency...that will attract the attention of the homeowner who hopefully will call 911.
As they suggested draw attention, but avoid the classic "help", people tend to ignore it. It is more reliable a "fire" or shout something about a kid needing help for something (people tend to run promptly when kids are involved). If all they want is your wallet try not to give it to them directly, but instead throw it on the ground and walk away the opposite direction where you threw the wallet at.


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## ArmorOfGod (Mar 24, 2008)

charyuop said:


> Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??


 
Canes are easier to carry into malls, airplaines, conveniece stores, city buses, Wal-Marts, grocery stores, and banks than large dogs.
;-)
I am being a little tongue in cheek, but I am for real.  Also, what if you live in an apartment that does not allow pets?
Dogs are good, but far less convenient than a ten dollar walking cane.

AoG


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## ArmorOfGod (Mar 24, 2008)

Make sure you go here:
https://www.ruralking.com/Store/detail.aspx?ID=16790
A lot of cane guys (like me) are using that site for ten dollar canes. They are shaped like the $120 Canemaster canes and work just as well.
As for the Falcon system that guy recommended on the Yahoo website, don't use that junk--you'll get killed. Try to borrow of find some of the Canemaster tapes. They are easier and work far better.
Good luck!

AoG


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## jks9199 (Mar 24, 2008)

charyuop said:


> Instead of a big cane, why don't you buy a big canine??
> A big dog is good enough to scare people and if they want to bother you anyway, it can keep them at distance the time to call 911. Not to mention they are good friends and good company. Training a dog is easier than learning MA moves that could get you more hurt since as you said you didn't keep up the good shape.
> You said the problem is because of gangs and I don't think gang people walk around alone, which will make self defence more complicated.
> 
> ...



You've got some good advice -- but dogs are not, without specialized training of both the owner and dog, reliable self-defense tools.  Nor are they reliable home defense systems.  I've worked plenty of cases where the dog did not stop the burglar...  and there are plenty of instances where a person was attacked and the dog simply ran off.

I'm not saying dogs are bad, but too often people assume that simply having the dog is all it takes.  If your dog is part of your defensive plan -- you need to spend time training and working with the dog, just like you would spend time on the range developing your ability to shoot.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 24, 2008)

I was going to offer some glib, over-reactionary, 'advice' along the lines of "Just shoot the SOB and use your age as a 'lever' in court" but there are several strikes against that, the two primary ones being:

1) I am English and have no experience of using firearms as self-defence
2) There are a couple of very experienced LEO's in this thread who would take great exception to such words .

It's never an easy thing to become old, I have seen the effects on my father of his waning strength and increasing infirmity as he nears 80.  You seem to have, as we English say, your head screwed on when it comes to the realities of life and I wish you the best of luck in finding a legal solution to your dilema.


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## hapkenkido (Mar 24, 2008)

get the canemasters vids or the cane dvd from combat hapkido (ichf)


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## frank raud (Mar 25, 2008)

Techniques from a senior master
http://gutterfighting.org/Umbrella.html

Also check out Ted Truscott's Raising cane

http://defendyourself101.ca/


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## DGF (Mar 25, 2008)

Sukerkin, I live in Virginia which is a concealed Carry state. It would be easy for me to get a permit to carry my PPK in my pocket. That being said, my little PPK only weighs 20 ozs or so but is too much weight to carry. By that I mean I do not want the responsibility that carrying a gun entails. If I make a mistake with my cane it will probably be a small mistake. There are no small mistakes with a firearm. I have grown up with guns and am a fair shot, I do go to the NRA range occasionaly and shoot but walking around with one in my pocket is not something I would do.

As far as canines, we have always had big dogs until now. Now we have a chicken livered 20 lb Boston Terrier. Wonderfull little dog but far from intimidating. A couple of past dogs would have, Im sure, come to my aid in a self defence situation. They were untrained for protection but their desire to defend their master and family was unbounded. My daughters always felt safe when they were home alone with them. Not all dogs have that sense of protection and unless you purchase one already trained you have no idea what that puppy will be like as an adult. I had a German Shepard once that was (aside from his intimidating Size) a wimp. He would have given the family silverware to any burglar that came along, and probably help him carry it out to the car. I recently turned down an offer from a freind of mine to take his Pressa Canerio named Samson. He was an impressive dog, unafraid of anything and would have been an excellent protection dog, perhaps too good, he was a one family dog and was suspicious of any stranger. I did not take the dog for liability reasons. We have a lot of children in the neighborhood and the possibilty of an accidental attack was too real. Samson weighed 130lbs and had extremely powerful jaws. Like a firearm he would make no SMALL mistakes. 

We cannot, no matter how hard we try, eliminate all the risks in life. I will take my chances with my cane, if it is some small help sometime that is good. If not, well I will at least go down swinging.


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## Drac (Mar 25, 2008)

hapkenkido said:


> get the canemasters vids or the cane dvd from combat hapkido (ichf)


 
Yep...If you are ever afforded the oppertunity attend a CaneMaster seminar you will be amazed at the techniques that Grandmaster Shuey Sr demonstrates and teaches...I was the Uke for him at one seminar and his "stuff" is the real deal..


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## Alain (Jul 10, 2008)

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but wanted to share a hapkido cane resource I put out a year ago that many people have enjoyed and learned from. You can see a sample clip here:

http://www.burrese.com/Personal_Security_&_Self_Defense/Products/Hapkido_Cane.htm

I'm also going to look around and see if I can contribute in other areas as well.

Yours in Training,

Alain

www.burrese.com
www.aikiproductions.com


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## hapkidonet (Jul 22, 2008)

The great thing about a fast thrust is that it's very hard to avoid. Very few people can get out of the way fast enough.

Low strikes to the shins and knees are great, but be sure to misdirect first. Look your attacker in the eyes. Don't look at your target. Make some sort of confusing gesture with your hand, up high. For example, throwing a few coins at the attacker's face is a great distraction. Throwing a lit cigarette is great too, if you are a smoker. Follow up immediately with your low strike, then with strikes to the head.

I wonder, though, in what scenario do you see yourself fighting? If confronted by an armed mugger, the best thing to do is hand over your wallet. If it's just some punk street kids hassling you, you can generally talk your way out of it.

I live in a small town and I often go for long walks at night. I carry a cane to ward off aggressive dogs (they seem to think they own the night). A few swings is usually enough to keep them at bay. As I walk I often practice aggressively with the cane, working on fast strikes, combination strikes, etc. It's great exercise. This is on quiet back roads at night where there's no one out except the single police cruiser that patrols all night, and they know me.

I think that constant, repetitious practice helps tremendously. You become faster, much more comfortable with the cane, and your are less likely to hit yourself in the head with it (it happens).


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