# People are Stupid



## Samurai (Apr 30, 2004)

I hope the title got someone's attention.......

Anyway, it is my FIRM belief that instead of taking a two week self-defense course or even learning a Martial Art in a dojo enviroment, people should just learn a little basic awareness.

I spent the day "thinking" like a criminal and was amazed at just how unaware and exposed most people are.  I think if I acted on my thoughts I could have gotten away with large amounts of cash and not even gotten close to being caught.

One example that I found very revolting.....a lady was in line at Taco Bell ordering lunch for a large group of people I guess.  She was right next to the exit door counting a very big wad of bills and she was holding the bills at arms length.  It would be nothing to open the door, grab the bills, and then be back in the car before she knew what hit her.

I hope that the people in my classes are taught to "know better" then this.  It really is no wonder that crime is on the rise, we are making things way too easy for the crook.

Thanks,
Jeremy Bays


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## loki09789 (Apr 30, 2004)

Samurai said:
			
		

> I hope the title got someone's attention.......
> 
> Anyway, it is my FIRM belief that instead of taking a two week self-defense course or even learning a Martial Art in a dojo enviroment, people should just learn a little basic awareness.
> 
> ...



The point your making is why I am a fan of scenario/tactical based training in a self defense based program.  Done well, it doesn't have to mean a sacrifice in technical skill - but it may mean a smaller number of less intricate techniques because training time is devoted to the complete spectrum of SD skills (awarenss, penal law, physical techniques, threat recognition, stress reaction/self control, tactical theory, ....).  

All of these instructional lessons need to be repetitive, consistent and specific instruction for it to stick.  Great physical technique comes from focus and repetition, so will tactical awareness if the techniques are taught with the same skill and knowledge.


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## c2kenpo (Apr 30, 2004)

I agree with both of you on this topic. Unfortunatly the general public does not take the time and nor do they care enough to learn HOW to avoid the potential dangers that lurk around every corner.

Simple ways of learning how NOT to look like a victim is why people favor reality based training at times. I am one of those in favor of that.

Another example of a "victim" is the woman leaving the mall who parked far away not near a lamp and is carrying bags and talking on her cell phone while she is looking at the ground. I work at a mall retail center and the stats on this just watching on and off during a day ......would stagger the imagination. I could not possibly comprehend if I could get a whole days stats.

So my view is to help my students and fellow people by actualy telling them How NOT to look like a victim. It may not be 100% effective but it will greatly reduce thier chances of being one.

David Gunzburg


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 30, 2004)

Samurai said:
			
		

> I hope the title got someone's attention.......
> 
> Anyway, it is my FIRM belief that instead of taking a two week self-defense course or even learning a Martial Art in a dojo enviroment, people should just learn a little basic awareness.
> 
> ...


Although awareness is at the top of the list for self defense situations I think you are missing the point about crime. The cartoons you watched as a kid were all lies. Crime does pay. Its so easy to rob, rape and pillage those that are unaware that its a wonder there aren't more criminals; however, crime only has a 99% success rate. That means out of every one hundred crimes you commit you will be caught and possibly imprisoned at least once; so, in that sense crime does not pay. The Morays of society teach us not to victimise eachother and most people don't (unless they are in sales). I don't know about any dojo you are involved with, but awareness is the first thing we teach. The rest is for when that fails. You really should consider giving your new found awareness a margin for error.
Sean (www.iemat)


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## loki09789 (Apr 30, 2004)

c2kenpo said:
			
		

> I agree with both of you on this topic. Unfortunatly the general public does not take the time and nor do they care enough to learn HOW to avoid the potential dangers that lurk around every corner.
> 
> Simple ways of learning how NOT to look like a victim is why people favor reality based training at times. I am one of those in favor of that.



This is the good thing about the amount of variety in the themes of martial arts now.  If you want to be dazzling and have a blast, take a tournament/form focused program.  If you want to be able to experience a tradition/culture, take a traditionally based program.  If you want to be street effective, then you take a combatives/self defense program.  If you want to experience spiritual/physical/mental harmony, take an internal style program.

All of these programs will have a sprinkling of the other outcomes, but since each focuses on different goals - and you are realistic about how you percieve your training/are training others - it is a great experience.

Unfortunately, this 'what the general population wants' issue can mean that some programs do lip service to real self defense training, list it on their brochures but don't actually teach self defense skills other than physical technique.  Telling a person that they need to be aware or think tactically as you are teaching the techniques isn't the same as explaining techniques and doing drills that let students enhance their awareness skills, or putting students into tactical situations after explaining things like OODA loops and having them apply it.


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## c2kenpo (Apr 30, 2004)

HEY SEAN WATCH IT!!  :jedi1:  I'm in sales..... %-} 


Paul you are absolutly correct, I failed to touch on the point about some self-defense training and getting more then just "lip-service" to be more complete.. I was just attempting to give a quick point of what I consider a "first step" in self-defense.

David Gunzburg


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## Spud (Apr 30, 2004)

Agreed, I think?  Most people I know don't take martial arts for crime prevention or self defense. 

Many people operate on different levels of defensive situational awarness. I personally don't like the idea of seeing eveyone in Taco Bell as being a potential threat, requiring me to be on guard. But, I do try and be mindful of my environment and use common sense.  I have a very good friend who is oblivious to her situational evironment, but really wants to learn how to use a Kubaton. Hey, I don't mind her giving change to a panhandler, but stopping on a street corner late at night and digging through your purse to find a quarter is just dumb.


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## loki09789 (Apr 30, 2004)

c2kenpo said:
			
		

> HEY SEAN WATCH IT!!  :jedi1:  I'm in sales..... %-}
> 
> 
> Paul you are absolutly correct, I failed to touch on the point about some self-defense training and getting more then just "lip-service" to be more complete.. I was just attempting to give a quick point of what I consider a "first step" in self-defense.
> ...



Not taking you on, your post got me thinking is all


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## loki09789 (Apr 30, 2004)

Spud said:
			
		

> Agreed, I think?  Most people I know don't take martial arts for crime prevention or self defense.
> 
> Many people operate on different levels of defensive situational awarness. I personally don't like the idea of seeing eveyone in Taco Bell as being a potential threat, requiring me to be on guard. But, I do try and be mindful of my environment and use common sense.  I have a very good friend who is oblivious to her situational evironment, but really wants to learn how to use a Kubaton. Hey, I don't mind her giving change to a panhandler, but stopping on a street corner late at night and digging through your purse to find a quarter is just dumb.



Awareness isn't paranoia.  It just means being in tune with your surroundings (including people) to a level that means that you get that little itch when something doesn't seem right.  You check it out quickly (maybe just a glance) and then go on if nothing else 'itches'.  If other switches go off, you can look closer if you need to, maybe shift away from them and closer to exits....

Example: I was walking to my Tux appointment with my son (I am the 'aware' one in this story BTW) and as we get out of the car, I hear shouting voices: one male and one female.  I look around and see a couple arguing near their car about four spaces to the left of my car.  My son, oblivious starts walking in a path that will take him within a few feet of them.

I tell him to stop and point out, discreetly the arguing people.  I tell him to give them some distance (which in haptics/body language is 'privacy' along with not staring) and we continue into the store on a different route.  Through the whole thing I didn't feel threatened, just in tune.  I was keeping tabs on the situation to make sure it didn't get abusive, but it didn't give me fits either.

I equote the awareness aspect of SD training as getting back to that basic, animal experience level of sensory life.  We can't gain the level of sensory intensity of wolves, deer, or other animals but we can attune ourselves to that level of experience.  It does improve the quality of daily life too because it makes any sensory experience more keen - sort of a natural high without the fear.


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## Samurai (Apr 30, 2004)

Good points made here by all.  
I would like to throw out a few random thoughts....
1.) We learn to DISCOUNT our natural feelings and senses to the point of not hearing them any more.

2.) A person is MOST vunerable in their comfort zone OR in a routine.  We need to teach people to WAKE UP at these points in their life.

3.) Awareness Training is boring to most people so it is glossed over at seminars and in martial arts classes.  I think this is the most important thing you can learn.

4.) Kids need to be taught to listein to their inner voice.  If something does not feel right...run or flee.  It does not matter how you look.

Sorry for the rumbling but I am pressed for time.
Jeremy Bays


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 30, 2004)

Generally, agreed. The masses are asses, and unfortunately, we have no real predators left to cull the herd of the really dense ones, so they just go on breeding, and polluting the gene pool with more stupid people.  In nature, the predator strengthens the pack by giving it a common purpose. In humanity, the predators are ourselves, but we simply aren't good enough at self-predatory behavior to truly decrease the ecological liabilities posed by the obviously dense.

The only hope appears to be in the natural history of unchecked population explosions. Left to their own devices, they consume resources until resources are spent, then enter into a demise stage towards extinction.  Question is, when we reach that state, will there be any thinkers left to help rebuild sensibly, or will only the cognitively challenged remain to represent the race of man on earth?

Cynically despising the state of the species,

Dr. Dave


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## KenpoTex (May 1, 2004)

Good points y'all,



			
				Samurai said:
			
		

> I spent the day "thinking" like a criminal and was amazed at just how unaware and exposed most people are. I think if I acted on my thoughts I could have gotten away with large amounts of cash and not even gotten close to being caught.


I find myself doing this quite frequently.  I see people like the woman c2Kenpo mentioned who walk around with their heads stuck to their cell-phones totally oblivious to everything else around them.  Invariably, something to the effect of "gee, it's a good thing I'm not a criminal" flashes through my head.  Try this sometime, when you're at Wal-mart or the mall try to identify people that would make good targets, you might notice behavior that causes you to re-evaluate your level of awareness.  
  On the Awareness thing; like Loki said, "awareness isn't paranoia." You don't have to, and shouldn't, walk around in condition red all the time (if you try you will burn out or go nuts).  Just be alert, notice things like the dude loitering in the parking lot at 3 a.m., or the car that takes the same turns you do 3 times in a row at 1:30 in the morning.  Chances are it probably isn't anything to be concerned about, but on the other hand, if it does turn out to be a problem you already saw it coming so you are better prepared run or fight.


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## Phoenix44 (May 1, 2004)

Awareness IS taught in any decent self defense course.  "Martial Arts" is not self defense.


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## c2kenpo (May 1, 2004)

Everyone had a good post here.

Kenpotex and Loki, I think nailed it on the head. 

Learning to "SEE" what is wrong or could go wrong is different than paranoia.
And you can develop good habits that really make the difference.
One of my habits is to directly look at everyone that is passing me right in the eyes and actually say "Hello! How are You?" this one shows that I am not afraid of Human Contact and also to a would be attacker adds the thought "Shoot he can describe me and he is alert which may not be as EASY."

The first thing to remember is that the criminal mind is not as sophisticated as you think. Talk to local law enforment and ask about "smart" criminals you will get a lot of funny stories of not so smart ones.
The bad guy want's the EASY path and if you look easy well that is where they go.

Another habit is to always let someone know WHERE you are and WHERE you are going and WHEN you will be there. LEO's when armed with time and place information of a missing person the success rate of finding that person is dramaticly increased! Teach this to your KIDS!!!
So many other habits to get into......but that is another thread... :uhyeah: 

Dave Gunzburg


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## rschoon (May 2, 2004)

c2kenpo said:
			
		

> Everyone had a good post here.
> 
> 
> The first thing to remember is that the criminal mind is not as sophisticated as you think. Talk to local law enforment and ask about "smart" criminals you will get a lot of funny stories of not so smart ones.
> ...





this is so true. I see a lot of these.  They could be the most dangerouse as well as "they" think they are smart.

teaching kids this is a must in this society today i think.
great to teach this habit.


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## 8253 (May 2, 2004)

Aint you a people too?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 3, 2004)

8253 said:
			
		

> Aint you a people too?


I am, most regrettably, a member of the human race. Would that I were a tree, rock, waterfall, whatever; as it stands, I am part of the problem. I am, however, making my own contributions to the solution.  Specifically, I have elected not to breed. My own life and genetics were twisted enough without adding to the problem by making more like me. Unfair to the would-be kid; the world; nature.

Regardie,

Dave


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## 8253 (May 4, 2004)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> I am, most regrettably, a member of the human race. Would that I were a tree, rock, waterfall, whatever; as it stands, I am part of the problem. I am, however, making my own contributions to the solution.  Specifically, I have elected not to breed. My own life and genetics were twisted enough without adding to the problem by making more like me. Unfair to the would-be kid; the world; nature.
> 
> Regardie,
> 
> Dave



Hey, i resemble that


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## someguy (May 4, 2004)

Maybe then we should prune the genes of the human race.  I'm all for that as long as it doesn't hurt me or some one I love.  Sure why not.  What did you say I'm the end of a branch as I lack beuty.  Darn good bye.  

Gene or society.  I have to raise this.  Do genes really matter on how twisted this world is or does society make the world twisted.  I'd say society. Want proof go make me a clone or two and I'll have on raised to belive evrything I think is wrong is wrong and the other one I'll raise in my image.  They must be raised seperatly.  WHile we are at it we can find out about other debates I have heard of.  The whole is a person Homosexual because of genes or society.
Eh too much work never mind.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 4, 2004)

The old Nature vs Nurture issue. Gens AND Society.  If I could find a rural island with simple more's and taboos, I might have a kid.  As it stands, modern life is too cruel a place to introduce a child. I don't think there is much a parent can do to truly prepare their offspring for happiness in a world that will change multiple times, even just during the kids childhood.

My own opinion.

D.


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## Cruentus (May 4, 2004)

Samurai said:
			
		

> I hope the title got someone's attention.......
> 
> Anyway, it is my FIRM belief that instead of taking a two week self-defense course or even learning a Martial Art in a dojo enviroment, people should just learn a little basic awareness.
> 
> Jeremy Bays



Hi Jeremy.

I think people should do both...learn awareness AND take a course.

You don't know how competent/incompetitent or Aware/unaware you are by yourself. Even a 2 week course (that is good, mind you) can be helpful. Having a qualified instructor guiding your learning is always useful. Ultimately, you have to take responsability for your own learning, but I think it isn't a matter of "learn awareness over taking a course." I think that both are needed.

PAUL


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## Tgace (May 4, 2004)

Gotta agree with Paul there. While I have always been a vocal proponent of "tactical" training, its always on the premise that good technique is being trained/practiced. Just like a LEO may never need to use his sidearm...he still trains (if hes smart) with it like he may get into a gunfight at any moment.


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## Cruentus (May 5, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Gotta agree with Paul there. While I have always been a vocal proponent of "tactical" training, its always on the premise that good technique is being trained/practiced. Just like a LEO may never need to use his sidearm...he still trains (if hes smart) with it like he may get into a gunfight at any moment.



Makes a lot of sense to me!  :asian:


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## loki09789 (May 5, 2004)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Gotta agree with Paul there. While I have always been a vocal proponent of "tactical" training, its always on the premise that good technique is being trained/practiced. Just like a LEO may never need to use his sidearm...he still trains (if hes smart) with it like he may get into a gunfight at any moment.


Ah Tom, you steal my thunder.....

The point that is being made here about balancing the mental side of the game with the technical side is why I started a thread (unfortunately didn't go anywhere) about percentage break down of categories in training so that you understand what you are emphasizing at each developmental stage.  

For instance, for a beginning student with no prior training:

80% technical
15% fitness/conditioning
5% tactical

Basically the break down shows what the bulk of training time will be devoted to in each lesson, and during the entire phase of the training.  It also helps when students feel frustrated, or want to stray into things that they aren't ready to try yet.  Obviously as the student progresses the shift will be more into tactical to develop creativity, responsiveness and adaptability.  At each phase though each category needs some emphasis.  This percentage break down works whether it is a single technique, a rank level preparation, whole system....


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