# Karate Combat



## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2018)

Karate Combat is a new full contact professional karate organization.  Bas Rutten is involved in it.

Looks pretty cool.

Fights - Karate Combat


Disclaimer:  We have a friend who competes in the same org. as my son who entered it and won his 1st fight by KO.  (Josh Quayhagen) 

Looking forward to following it.


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## CB Jones (Apr 4, 2018)

One feature of the videos is that you can see the fighters Biometrics during the fight.

Watching Josh's fight I noticed that before the fight and throughout the fight Josh Q's heartrate was much lower than Basturk's.

I wonder if this was due to Basturk mainly being a point fighter in the WKF org. not having as much full contact experience was more amped up and tight....whereas Josh although grew up point fighting and is the 7 time champ in the uska......he also fought for Bellator MMA and has 17 professional mma fights under his belt...so he is quite comfortable with full contact fighting.

One thing was for sure.....Josh Q. looked much more relaxed and comfortable in the fight than Basturk.


Gonna go back and watch some other fights and look at there Biometrics.


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## Buka (Apr 5, 2018)

Oh no, no, no. I will NOT allow myself to get sucked into this. I love this kind of thing way too much, it would take up too much time, I'd get lost in it.


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2018)

Buka said:


> Oh no, no, no. I will NOT allow myself to get sucked into this. I love this kind of thing way too much, it would take up too much time, I'd get lost in it.



Cmon now...it’ll be ok

The next event is scheduled for April 26 in Miami, Fl.

The rules for anyone interested
Rules & Regulations - Karate Combat


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## Martial D (Apr 5, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> One feature of the videos is that you can see the fighters Biometrics during the fight.
> 
> Watching Josh's fight I noticed that before the fight and throughout the fight Josh Q's heartrate was much lower than Basturk's.
> 
> ...




Cool stuff. Was watching some pre season matches. Here's one for you.


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2018)

Found out today that another friend of ours will also be competing in this league as well.


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## Azulx (Apr 5, 2018)

This is Awesome!


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2018)

Azulx said:


> This is Awesome!



Did you get a chance to meet Josh at the tournament in Mandeville?


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## Buka (Apr 5, 2018)

I soooo don't want to look at this. I think I need a much deserved beer. Day off and all.


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## CB Jones (Apr 5, 2018)

Buka said:


> I soooo don't want to look at this. I think I need a much deserved beer. Day off and all.









As the Bastard Son of American Martial Arts....I think you are required to look at it.


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## Azulx (Apr 5, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Did you get a chance to meet Josh at the tournament in Mandeville?


I sure did! I got to meet him and his brother !


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## Buka (Apr 5, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> As the Bastard Son of American Martial Arts....I think you are required to look at it.



Nicely played. Bastard!

Ah, well, there goes tonight.


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## Buka (Apr 6, 2018)

Couldn't get to it last night. But here's a problem for me...

Joe Rogan's podcast thing. Just had another interview with Rickson. It's three hours. And I'm going to watch it, you can make book on that. How could I not, he was my teacher.

Last week I bought one of those whatever you call its, video things so you can see what they want to show you. It was another Rickson thing. Learned about it here on our forum. I've watched about half of it. It's basic stuff mostly, but I'm really digging it. It was only thirty something bucks.

And now the Karate Combat thing. As much as today's generation has so many more avenues of information than my generation ever had......how the hell does anybody find the time to take advantage of it? I mean with work/school, training, family and all the other things in life......one gets swamped.

This is tough.


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## CB Jones (Apr 6, 2018)

@Buka

Understandable.

We are friends with one of the fighters and my son looks up to him a lot so we have been waiting for it to be released.


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## Buka (Apr 6, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> @Buka
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> We are friends with one of the fighters and my son looks up to him a lot so we have been waiting for it to be released.



And I really want to watch it, I love these sort of things. And I'm going to watch it.

I just wished we lived on Venus. A day is realllllllly long. Maybe we could get things done. But then....my wife would probably have a thousand times more errands for me to do.


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## pdg (Apr 6, 2018)

Buka said:


> As much as today's generation has so many more avenues of information than my generation ever had......how the hell does anybody find the time to take advantage of it? I mean with work/school, training, family and all the other things in life.....



Not entirely sure I'm of "today's generation", but I like the access to information.

Finding time is simply a case of finding it... It's currently about 4am, I'll be up not long after 7. Admittedly it's a late night for me, I'm usually in bed at least an hour before now.


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## Headhunter (Apr 6, 2018)

There have been plenty of these things over the years all started strong and faded away. There's just not the money in these types of combat sports. In mma there's UFC and Bellator and for kickboxing it's glory but most other promotions don't stick around because they can't sustain what they're doing


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## Mitlov (Apr 10, 2018)

I'm tentatively excited.  I'd like it to survive and thrive--it's right at the "sweet spot" for me in terms of how much contact I like to see--but these things fail so often I'm afraid this will be dead in eighteen months too.  Still, getting Bas Rutten's name involved helps, and a bunch of big-name WKF folks for the first event is a good sign.


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## CB Jones (Apr 10, 2018)

Chuck Lidell is also involved in it.


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## Mitlov (Apr 10, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Chuck Lidell is also involved in it.



I didn't realize that. That's awesome!


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## CB Jones (Apr 11, 2018)

Bad Rutten on Joe Rogan  podcast talking about karate combat


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 11, 2018)

I like the arena.  I've never been a fan of the Octagon or cage look, which was like putting 2 dogs into a small area in an effort to force them to fight each other.  I prefer a larger arena vs a smaller one caged one.  I think this arena is going to demand more of skill from the fighters as it will allow people to better maintain the distance as needed.

The best thing is that there is no cage to interfere with the techniques and possible strikes as you get closer to the boundaries.  For example, there's no way I could use my long fist techniques if there is a fence close to my back.


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## CB Jones (Apr 22, 2018)

The next Karate Combat Event is set to be live this week on the 26th.  It will be held in Miami.

We had a friend try to compete in it but they couldn't him him a fight in time.  Our other friend who compete in Genesis is set to compete in Dubai in May.

Genesis was held in a warehouse in Budapest.

Miami looks to be in the top of a Sky Scraper

Dubai will be held on a Heli Pad on top of a building.

Karate Combat full contact karate league - The Combat Sport of the Future


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 22, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Genesis was held in a warehouse in Budapest.
> 
> Miami looks to be in the top of a Sky Scraper
> 
> Dubai will be held on a Heli Pad on top of a building.


I guess they have to make to do this to make bring in the curiosity.  Do you know if they will expand it, into other martial art systems?


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## CB Jones (Apr 22, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I guess they have to make to do this to make bring in the curiosity.  Do you know if they will expand it, into other martial art systems?



I'm not sure.  I would think if it catches on they would open it up to anyone who can fight within their rules set.  Time will only tell.


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## Mitlov (Apr 23, 2018)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Karate Combat's competitors all coming from a karate background.  I don't think you'd be eligible to join an Olympic TKD team if you weren't a taekwondoin, and I don't think you could join an Olympic boxing team if you weren't a boxer, no matter how good you were in another style.  I'm looking at this as an alternative to WKF point-stop competition for karateka, not as some sort of direct competitor to the UFC.  I think it should be open to karateka, ITF taekwondoin, and Tang Soo Do folks, etc, all of whom are very similar in the grand scheme of things...but I'd hate to see it flooded by grapplers who have cross-trained in Muay Thai.  Nothing against them, but they've already got the UFC catering to them.

I think the locations are a bit over the top. Feels like they're trying to make a real life video game, like real life Street Fighter 2.  And given some of Bas Rutten's comments about the biometric tracking being "like a video game," maybe that's intentional?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 23, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I guess they have to make to do this to make bring in the curiosity.


I read this about 4 times...still don't know what it means.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 23, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I prefer a larger arena vs a smaller one caged one. I think this arena is going to demand more of skill from the fighters as it will allow people to better maintain the distance as needed.
> 
> The best thing is that there is no cage to interfere with the techniques and possible strikes as you get closer to the boundaries. For example, there's no way I could use my long fist techniques if there is a fence close to my back.


I'd say that dealing with walls and obstacles is a skill in itself. Furthermore, I'd say it's a skill with real world applications.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 23, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I read this about 4 times...still don't know what it means.


In other words it's more about marketing.  Sometimes businesses will do things to make people curious about what a company has to offer.   For example,  had it not been for the shape of the ring, many of us would have less curiosity about Combat Karate.   Many of us have already seen combat karate before.   

We have seen rings like this before.   So for many it just registers as nothing new.  It wouldn't even register on the "hey check this out."  share with a friend response.  But you call something Combat Karate and show a ring that no one is familiar with or have ever fought in, then your curiosity draws you in, not the karate.  I'm pretty sure many of these guys have sparred in competitions before but none of us are looking for those competition videos.   So what has changed?   The ring.   Now put this new wring design on top of a tall building, then people start to wonder what is that all about.   What does that even look like?   The marketing exploits the curiosity of humans in order to get more people interested in something that is actually fairly common in the world of the martial arts competition.

If you saw this ring and someone told you that they were going to fight in it.   The first thing most people's mind do is say "Hey what's this about?"  "How does that even work?"  




So in short I'm just referring how the marketing is exploiting the natural curiosity of people.  For the purpose of getting more people to tuned in to watch, and hoping that the first experience of watching is good enough to watch again.


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## Mitlov (Apr 23, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> But you call something Combat Karate and show a ring that no one is familiar with or have ever fought in, then your curiosity draws you in, not the karate.  I'm pretty sure many of these guys have sparred in competitions before but none of us are looking for those competition videos.   So what has changed?   The ring.



Strongly disagree.  The single biggest difference between this competition and these competitors' prior competitions is the fact that this is full-contact continuous sparring, and these guys are all top-tier competitors, but from a competition circuit of light-contact point-stop competition (WKF karate).  That rule set is a dramatic difference from WKF karate competition.  That's what makes this different from these karatekas' prior competitions.

Compare Rafael Aghayev in this video:






with this video:






For me, the fact that the ring was flat on the edges instead of sloped on the edges was not the biggest difference.


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## axelb (Apr 24, 2018)

this looks good, I'll be tuning in on Friday


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## Kenposcholar (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm super pumped for it! The whole thing is right up my alley & I haven't been happy with the general UFC attitude recently. I believe the biggest set back to the Karate League is their announcers don't bring any level of hype comparable to the UFC. I appreciate their dialogue, but they need to really get louder & more enthusiastic in order for the whole thing to be successful.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 24, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> Strongly disagree.  The single biggest difference between this competition and these competitors' prior competitions is the fact that this is full-contact continuous sparring, and these guys are all top-tier competitors, but from a competition circuit of light-contact point-stop competition (WKF karate).  That rule set is a dramatic difference from WKF karate competition.  That's what makes this different from these karatekas' prior competitions.
> 
> For me, the fact that the ring was flat on the edges instead of sloped on the edges was not the biggest difference.


This is the perspective from which I made my comment.  I wasn't specifically referring to  WKF but to martial arts in general. Which are usually fought on a flat surface, raised platform, ring, or cage.  This is the only ring that I know of that has a 45 degree incline that is used keep fighters within the zone.   Unless you know of someone else who fights in a similar arena


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 24, 2018)

I just did some research on it. It looks like it's going to be a Professional Karate fighting league.


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## Mitlov (Apr 24, 2018)

Sunken pits have been used for combat sports for all of human history.  Ancient examples include the Roman Coliseum.  Recent examples include this boxing league:

State of Nevada Sanctions Big-Knockout Boxing (BKB) and Will Be Home to Newest Combat Sport



> I just did some research on it. It looks like it's going to be a Professional Karate fighting league.



Yes, all of that has been discussed in this thread.  It's a professional, full-contact karate league for established karate competitors, typically those coming from the WKF (where competition is light-contact point-stop).  It is for karate what sanda competition is for kung fu.


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## CB Jones (Apr 24, 2018)

So looks like our friend will be fighting in The Miami event.

He will be going up against Spyro Margitopoulus from Greece.


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## JR 137 (Apr 24, 2018)

I don’t want to be the hater here, but...

I’d rather watch Kyokushin, Enshin’s Sabaki Challenge, or Kudo.  I haven’t watched much Kudo, but I like the little bit I’ve seen better than this.  Maybe it was the fighters and not the rule set that doesn’t do it for me, I don’t know.


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## Mitlov (Apr 25, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I don’t want to be the hater here, but...
> 
> I’d rather watch Kyokushin, Enshin’s Sabaki Challenge, or Kudo.  I haven’t watched much Kudo, but I like the little bit I’ve seen better than this.  Maybe it was the fighters and not the rule set that doesn’t do it for me, I don’t know.



I love watching kyokushin, but the lack of face punching can make it an acquired taste.  At the end of the day, I don't think it has to be one or the other.  Just like boxing and MMA can coexist, and one person can like both.


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## CB Jones (Apr 26, 2018)

Almost time.  Free Live stream on Karate.com starts in 1 hour!


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## CB Jones (Apr 26, 2018)

UK Fighter Jerome Brown will start it off against Spain's Pedro Roig


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## CB Jones (Apr 26, 2018)

Site not working but it is live on Youtube


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## JR 137 (Apr 26, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> I love watching kyokushin, but the lack of face punching can make it an acquired taste.  At the end of the day, I don't think it has to be one or the other.  Just like boxing and MMA can coexist, and one person can like both.


I agree it doesn’t have to be an either or thing.  I’m not loyal to watching any one type at the expense of everything else. 

And yeah, I’d like to see head punching in those, but bare knuckle and head punching don’t go very well for the fighters for any length of time.

Maybe I like the other ones because they’re more established and the kinks have been worked out.  Maybe it’s because it’s what I “grew up” watching in my MA journey.  Maybe it’s because the fighters in those competitions have more experience with their respective rule-sets.  Maybe I just didn’t like those particular fighters’ style.  Maybe it’s a combination.  I don’t know.  It just didn’t do it for me.  I wanted to be more into it that I am.  MMA doesn’t do it for me either.  I’d rather watch boxing or Muay Thai.


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## CB Jones (Apr 26, 2018)

Dang....our friend got caught with a left hook and KO’d in the 1st round.

So far 3 fights——2 KO’s and 1 TKO.


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## axelb (Apr 27, 2018)

Past my bedtime for the live stream, but watching catchup here:


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## Mitlov (Apr 27, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I agree it doesn’t have to be an either or thing.  I’m not loyal to watching any one type at the expense of everything else.
> 
> And yeah, I’d like to see head punching in those, but bare knuckle and head punching don’t go very well for the fighters for any length of time.
> 
> Maybe I like the other ones because they’re more established and the kinks have been worked out.  Maybe it’s because it’s what I “grew up” watching in my MA journey.  Maybe it’s because the fighters in those competitions have more experience with their respective rule-sets.  Maybe I just didn’t like those particular fighters’ style.  Maybe it’s a combination.  I don’t know.  It just didn’t do it for me.  I wanted to be more into it that I am.  MMA doesn’t do it for me either.  I’d rather watch boxing or Muay Thai.



Any new rule-set is going to require a lot of tweaking and balancing before it's really refined, and the competitors coming from a different rule-set are going to have an adjustment period before they are really used to the new rule-set.  I think both of these things are very true of Karate Combat right now.  But I'm still really enjoying watching it.

My personal rankings so far in terms of what I like to watch:

Kyokushin > Karate Combat > Sanda > MMA > Boxing

But that's as subjective as which ice cream flavor I like best.  I think the most important thing is, this thing has potential to become one popular flavor of many if it gets off the ground.


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## JR 137 (Apr 27, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> Any new rule-set is going to require a lot of tweaking and balancing before it's really refined, and the competitors coming from a different rule-set are going to have an adjustment period before they are really used to the new rule-set.  I think both of these things are very true of Karate Combat right now.  But I'm still really enjoying watching it.
> 
> My personal rankings so far in terms of what I like to watch:
> 
> ...


Absolutely.  Have you watched any of the Sabaki Challenge?  If you like Kyokushin and Karate Combat, it should be right up your alley.


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## Mitlov (Apr 29, 2018)

Watched the full event in Miami.  Overall, enjoyed it.  I think the first-round knockouts may diminish as they get used to the rule sets.  It succeeds in having a different feel than other popular full connect fighting sports.

As a side note, I found all the trash talk before fights ("he looks like a punching bag," etc), the entry in a Rolls Royce before walking down an aisle of Lambos and Ferraris, etc all very distasteful.  I much, much prefer the stoic respect you see in, say, the Ukrainian Kyokushin tournaments that the Odessit Youtube channel publishes so many of.


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## Headhunter (Apr 29, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> Watched the full event in Miami.  Overall, enjoyed it.  I think the first-round knockouts may diminish as they get used to the rule sets.  It succeeds in having a different feel than other popular full connect fighting sports.
> 
> As a side note, I found all the trash talk before fights ("he looks like a punching bag," etc), the entry in a Rolls Royce before walking down an aisle of Lambos and Ferraris, etc all very distasteful.  I much, much prefer the stoic respect you see in, say, the Ukrainian Kyokushin tournaments that the Odessit Youtube channel publishes so many of.


Yep that's modern day for you trash talk sells for some reason. That's why UFC will never get rid of mcgregor even though he should be gone years ago for the stuff he's done


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## chrissyp (Apr 29, 2018)

I personally like to an extent, I just feel its too limited for full contact, making it a little akward. The lack of leg kicks hinders other karate styles. I would also like to see standing elbows.


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## CB Jones (Apr 29, 2018)

chrissyp said:


> The lack of leg kicks hinders other karate styles.



How so?

What karate style will be hindered by not allowing kicks to the upper leg?


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## chrissyp (Apr 29, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> How so?
> 
> What karate style will be hindered by not allowing kicks to the upper leg?


Kyokushin, enshin, and I think Goju come to mine right of the bat.


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## CB Jones (Apr 29, 2018)

chrissyp said:


> Kyokushin, enshin, and I think Goju come to mine right of the bat.



Interesting

Are kicks to the upper leg that fundamental to those arts?


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## chrissyp (Apr 29, 2018)

I also would like to see them wear the kimonos and allow grabs and throws with it! I do like it though and well keep watching it and wish it the best.


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## chrissyp (Apr 29, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Interesting
> 
> Are kicks to the upper leg that fundamental to those arts?


For kyokushin, how they compete, I'd think so. I can't personally say, because I never trained it. I have trained thai boxing, and they use the low kick, very much like a thai boxer would.


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## Mitlov (Apr 29, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> How so?
> 
> What karate style will be hindered by not allowing kicks to the upper leg?



This is common in Kyokushin.  Constant thigh kicks as part of combos.


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## JR 137 (Apr 30, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Interesting
> 
> Are kicks to the upper leg that fundamental to those arts?


The gedan mawashi geri (low roundhouse kick) is about as fundamental as a jab in boxing.  They outside and inside of the thighs are primary targets that a lot of combos start with.  And it’s used to wear your opponent down.  Taking that away is almost (but not quite) like taking a boxer’s jab away.


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## _Simon_ (Apr 30, 2018)

Ahhh there's nothing like landing a perfect gedan mawashi geri... XD (I also can't help but smile if someone lands one on me!)


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## EddieCyrax (Apr 30, 2018)

I overall enjoyed watching this and think it will get better with time/modifications as discussed above.

All this said, the camera coverage annoyed the heck out of me.  It is as if the camera crew got new toys and had to use them.  Camera shots of some old dude's head.  I want to watch the fighters.  I want to see their whole body, not just their torso.


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## CB Jones (Apr 30, 2018)

Camera angles definitely need to improve but that should improve as they put more events on.


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## Mitlov (Apr 30, 2018)

Yeah, I agree, the camera work has been terrible so far in terms of actually capturing the action.  But that's about as easy as problems get to solve.


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## CB Jones (Sep 27, 2018)

Karate Combat One World is tonight.


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## CB Jones (Sep 27, 2018)

Yes!!!!!!!

Our friend won his fight tonight by Unanimous Decision!


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## axelb (Sep 28, 2018)

I'm catching this now on YouTube.


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## Mitlov (Sep 29, 2018)

I particularly liked the fights at 21:50 and at 54:00.  I definitely think it's starting to develop its own unique feel and rhythm, kind of like how Sanda feels dramatically different to watch than K-1.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 29, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> I particularly liked the fights at 21:50 and at 54:00.  I definitely think it's starting to develop its own unique feel and rhythm, kind of like how Sanda feels dramatically different to watch than K-1.


 I was really expecting them to apply a variety techniques.


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## Mitlov (Sep 29, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I was really expecting them to apply a variety techniques.



And...don't you feel that they did?  There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways.  What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 29, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> And...don't you feel that they did?  There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways.  What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?


I saw a lot of basic kicks and punches. 

I was expecting to see:

some foot hooks to break the structure.  

sweeps 

There were times when the opponent came in with punches which actually opens up a person to be kicked in the stomach or in the ribs underneath the punch. So I was looking for some well placed front kicks.
The blocks that are often performed in karate and tkd forms (I don't know the formal names for them)
I was surprised that there weren't many side kicks or punch kick combos.  With the exception of the punch flurries most of it was one kick. one punch type contact.
The guy at the end tried to mix it up a little.  If you listen to the commentary, you can hear him say a similar statement, "just throw something out."  which was in reference to just throw a technique out with the purpose of opening the opponent. 

In my opinion I would say they were too cautious and played it too safe. There were a lot of stalemates going on.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting any of the fighters down,  I just thought I would have seen more technique.  Because of the rules, I would have thought that it would be a great opportunity to take some risks that one may not normally take.  For example, No uppercuts no knees opens up a lot of opportunity to play in the "danger zone" without punishment or with minimum punishment.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> And...don't you feel that they did?  There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways.  What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?


I hope it stays around long enough for fighters to get better at what they do.  My guess is that the more they fight the more they will try to use the techniques that that they know.


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## CB Jones (Sep 30, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> In my opinion I would say they were too cautious and played it too safe. There were a lot of stalemates going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting any of the fighters down, I just thought I would have seen more technique. Because of the rules, I would have thought that it would be a great opportunity to take some risks that one may not normally take. For example, No uppercuts no knees opens up a lot of opportunity to play in the "danger zone" without punishment or with minimum punishment.



I disagree.  Its a full contact fight against experienced pro fighters...you have to fight smart.  Why take unneeded risks?  Its a professional fight....its your livelyhood.

Our friend took the last fight on short notice and took it for granted.  Went into the fight and "brawled" and got knocked out.  Learned that lesson the hard way and probably cost him headlining in New York.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> I disagree.  Its a full contact fight against experienced pro fighters...you have to fight smart.  Why take unneeded risks?  Its a professional fight....its your livelyhood.
> 
> Our friend took the last fight on short notice and took it for granted.  Went into the fight and "brawled" and got knocked out.  Learned that lesson the hard way and probably cost him headlining in New York.


Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it.  If you don't feel comfortable then you tend to be over cautious.  A statement was made by Bas Rutten reflected the same sentiment.  We see stalemates like the ones in that video in professional boxing.  So being an experienced pro fighter has very little to do with it.  

Fighting smart does not always mean stalemating the opponent.  That's good for self-defense but not so good for sports competition.  You can even hear the ref tell some of the fighters to fight. Sometimes being over cautious is not the same as fighting smart.   Sometimes that can get you hurt.  Some of them look really stiff and I can guaranteed they will loosen up once they get a few more of these fights in that type of ring under their belts.  

Over cautious also doesn't reflect skill level because it's something that fighters of all skill levels do from time to time.   Brawling is never good.  To me brawling is just going in swinging and hoping to hit something.  I rather fight a Brawler any day of the week.


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## CB Jones (Sep 30, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it.



It absolutely does.

If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal.  He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.

As a pro you take the chance of losing your sponsorships and being released from your fight contract.  Which risk you not being able to pay your bills.

You fight your fight and don’t take unneeded risks just for the sake of taking them.


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## Mitlov (Sep 30, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it.  If you don't feel comfortable then you tend to be over cautious.*  A statement was made by Bas Rutten reflected the same sentiment.*  We see stalemates like the ones in that video in professional boxing.  So being an experienced pro fighter has very little to do with it.
> 
> Fighting smart does not always mean stalemating the opponent.  That's good for self-defense but not so good for sports competition.  *You can even hear the ref tell some of the fighters to fight. *Sometimes being over cautious is not the same as fighting smart.   Sometimes that can get you hurt.  Some of them look really stiff and I can guaranteed they will loosen up once they get a few more of these fights in that type of ring under their belts.
> 
> Over cautious also doesn't reflect skill level because it's something that fighters of all skill levels do from time to time.   Brawling is never good.  To me brawling is just going in swinging and hoping to hit something.  I rather fight a Brawler any day of the week.



Bas Rutten was criticizing two specific fighters in one specific round...not the event as a whole.  Likewise, it was those two who were repeatedly urged to fight by the ref, not all the competitors.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> It absolutely does.
> 
> If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal.  He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.
> 
> ...


You and I aren't talking about the same risks.  You are referring to risks that are associated with stuff you don't know how to do.  I'm talking about risks on things you know how to do.   Here is how risks are for me. I fight with all usable skill sets and techniques that I can have a high rate of success.  Let's say it's 80% - 100%   for what I would use in self defense.  The closer to 80 the more difficult the technique is for me but the higher the reward if successful.  I'm more likely to K.O. someone around the 80%. mark
The 100 % safe technique stuff is the basics.  These are things I can easily do and are the things my opponent is most likely familiar with seeing and defending against.

If I want to win then I need to hit my opponent with stuff they aren't used to dealing with.  I can use the basics to set things up advanced techniques.

The fact that these guys can knee, do upper cuts, or kick the thighs.  Opens up the opportunity to take risks and not get punished for it.  IE.  ducking and getting punched with an uppercut is highly unlikely because of the rules.  Ducking and getting kneed is almost 0% chance because it's not allowed by the rules.  If you want to get paid then exploit that rule and use it to your benefit.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> Bas Rutten was criticizing two specific fighters in one specific round...not the event as a whole.  Likewise, it was those two who were repeatedly urged to fight by the ref, not all the competitors.


Yeah I think I said that.  I also mentioned the fighter in the last fight mixing it up more and working his techniques.  He also looked more relaxed and not over cautious.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> It absolutely does.
> 
> If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal.  He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.
> 
> ...



Professional Muay Thai fighters work their techniques, TKD fighters work their techniques, boxers work their techniques, Professional Point Sparring fighters work their point sparring techniques, BJJ fighters work their technique.  The rules for Combat Karate should be more favorable to using various techniques simply because the rules take away the uppercut, kneeing, and double leg take downs.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that the fighters aren't good.  I'm just saying they should take the opportunity to really open up with a variety of techniques since they won't pay for by eating an elbow, knee, or getting ground and pound for longer than 4 seconds. Nor will you pay for a mistake by having to defend a double leg take down.


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## CB Jones (Oct 1, 2018)

It’s like I tell my son.  Figure out your style and what works for you.  Listen to advice given but realize that most advice is what works for the advice giver and not necessarily what will work for you.

Take what works discard what doesn’t.


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## Mitlov (Oct 1, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Professional Muay Thai fighters work their techniques, TKD fighters work their techniques, boxers work their techniques, Professional Point Sparring fighters work their point sparring techniques, BJJ fighters work their technique.  The rules for Combat Karate should be more favorable to using various techniques simply because the rules take away the uppercut, kneeing, and double leg take downs.



Of course they work on their technique.  But you work on your technique and try stuff out just to see what happens during practice with sparring partners, not just whipping something out to see what happens in an international-televised professional competition.  This is true of every combat sport you mentioned, and it's true of Karate Combat as well.  Nobody is going to go into an international professional competition and just try throwing kihon-style blocks "to see what happens."  Either it's shown promise with sparring partners and they've incorporated it into their game, or it hasn't and they've discarded it*.

* (or more precisely, realized that kihon-style blocks are largely about teaching the principles of effective blocking that every one of them who successfully stopped a powerful kick demonstrated, and look a lot more fluid during sparring then they do during kihon).

But there's a lot more variety than you described. In addition to basic straight punches, there were hooking punches, overhands, front kicks, side kicks, roundhouse kicks, a jump-spin roundhouse kick, spinning back kicks, spinning hook kicks, kicks to the ankle.  But they're going to feel out their opponent and to set up those techniques, not just charge in with a cool-looking extended combo, or else they're going to get KOed in the first round for charging in recklessly.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

Mitlov said:


> Of course they work on their technique.  But you work on your technique and try stuff out just to see what happens during practice with sparring partners, not just whipping something out to see what happens in an international-televised professional competition.  This is true of every combat sport you mentioned, and it's true of Karate Combat as well.  Nobody is going to go into an international professional competition and just try throwing kihon-style blocks "to see what happens."  Either it's shown promise with sparring partners and they've incorporated it into their game, or it hasn't and they've discarded it*.
> 
> * (or more precisely, realized that kihon-style blocks are largely about teaching the principles of effective blocking that every one of them who successfully stopped a powerful kick demonstrated, and look a lot more fluid during sparring then they do during kihon).
> 
> But there's a lot more variety than you described. In addition to basic straight punches, there were hooking punches, overhands, front kicks, side kicks, roundhouse kicks, a jump-spin roundhouse kick, spinning back kicks, spinning hook kicks, kicks to the ankle.  But they're going to feel out their opponent and to set up those techniques, not just charge in with a cool-looking extended combo, or else they're going to get KOed in the first round for charging in recklessly.


You still aren't  understanding what I'm saying and what the commentator is saying.  ( assuming what ghe commentator issaying).  No one is saying just throw anything.  But you can throw probing punches and kicks to see how your opponent reacts to the strikes.  A kick at the waist can reveal that a person drops their  guard or raises their guard, or even jump back.  You can then use that feedback to plan your attack for those other techniques that Im referring do.   It doesn't mean you are throwing stuff wrecklessly. 

You probably haven't seen my other posts about using sparring to learn how to use techniques vs trying to win when sparring.  But those comments fall in line with yours about not picking a competition to try something new.  

Your fighting effectiveness is greatly reduce when you are tense and your movements don't flow.  It doesn't matter if you are sparring or in a full contact fight, this will always be true.


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## CB Jones (Oct 1, 2018)

Really hope organization makes it.  Really enjoy watching it.  And they have some really high caliber fighters.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 1, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Really hope organization makes it.  Really enjoy watching it.  And they have some really high caliber fighters.


Hopefully.  We will know in about a year or two. Have you seen any reviews about it?


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## CB Jones (Oct 1, 2018)

Just Bas Rutten talking about it on Joe Rohan’s podcast.

They have been adding sites streaming it so hopefully it continues to grow.


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## Mitlov (Oct 2, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Just Bas Rutten talking about it on Joe Rohan’s podcast.
> 
> They have been adding sites streaming it so hopefully it continues to grow.



It's been picked up by UFC Fight Pass (a paid subscription service which, contrary to the name, also features Muay Thai, kickboxing, and BJJ competitions as well as MMA), so that speaks well to its viability.  Nobody is expecting it to unseat the UFC as the most popular combat sport among modern audiences, nor do I expect it to unseat point sparring as the most popular form of sparring in Shotokan/Wado/etc circles, but I'd just be happy if it survived and continued to grow.


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## Damien (May 29, 2022)

So has anyone been watching the latest season of Karate Combat?

I've been a fan of Edgars Skrivers for a while. The way he moves forwards continually pressuring his opponents and delivering really well place and timed shots is fantastic. Very different from a lot of the other fighters in the format. Worth watching back some of his old fights if you've not seen them.



Spoiler: Season 4 episode 2:



I was shocked to see Skrivers go down against Rocha, but he was throwing some big shots. I don't think Skrivers really put enough pressure on, gave Rocha plenty of time to work his own game plan, and Skrivers just ended up eating too many shots.

Hopefully we'll see a third match between the pair in not too long and Skrivers won't descend into McGregor style madness after a rematch loss!😂


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## Yokozuna514 (May 30, 2022)

Damien said:


> So has anyone been watching the latest season of Karate Combat?
> 
> I've been a fan of Edgars Skrivers for a while. The way he moves forwards continually pressuring his opponents and delivering really well place and timed shots is fantastic. Very different from a lot of the other fighters in the format. Worth watching back some of his old fights if you've not seen them.
> 
> ...


Initially I was interested in this format but I was a little disappointed to see that kicks to the legs were prohibited.

That being said, I watched the fight and agree he took too many shots and wasn't able to press his own game.   It was just a matter of time before he was caught.


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