# Tai-chi in Thailand



## cloud dancing (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi Y'all
new here.Just learning how to post.
I've been here in thailand for about 8 years.No,I've not found muai Thai school.But looking
I slowed down my workouts.got hurt by false friend and it affected my practise
Hoping on forum I'll find needed inspiration to regain 4 hours daily.Old man at 63 need my daily 
practise now more than ever.
Started tai-chi in Boston with Master Li,Hwa Yu style.Was strange.I went to Emerson College
and on way to classes saw this nice old Chinese gentleman teaching young folks how to dance.
Isn't that sweet.the old Chinese guy is helping these folks learn to dance.I still see it as dancing.
But after couple times watching him.Old Man Li as we called him,walked over to me.I'd been in Vietnam,so I knew what DANGER felt like.He got about 5-6 feet away from me and I froze.Inside my heart said-Don't move.Be very polite,he's not teaching a dance class.this man is DEADLY.Guided me into his group and said"First class is free."
Taught me up goes down.Break throat hold like this.Pull him into you, add knee strike to head or
"If you want to ,hit both sides of his throat and kill him!" Spent about 4 years with him.Finest tai-chi Master 
I've eer known.Died about 1992.Loved by many but understood by few.If anyone finds hypnotist who helps with
standing technique/I'd be amazed to have help standing.I neer mastered standing.My mind wanted to move
Chen ssu chen, hours with no problems.But try to stand still and mind eats me up.Even with mediation, PremRawat taught me and 6 hours {past tense/now 2} daily practise.It's taken time understanding how
something SIMPLE.Just standing w/o movement can be most important of all techniques.glad when I ahve even 15-30 minutes .
So,hello.Hope all are loving life.Appreciation of BREATH is one benefit of martial arts.Love your breath=it's your life.
From Chiangrai,Lighthouse in mountains/Cloud Dancing.


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## seasoned (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you for finding us. It is a great site with many good people here. You have a great story to tell, thanks for sharing it. Enjoy your stay here at Martial Talk.


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## cloud dancing (Jan 6, 2014)

seasoned said:


> Thank you for finding us. It is a great site with many good people here. You have a great story to tell, thanks for sharing it. Enjoy your stay here at Martial Talk.


From I Ching-Cptr25/Wu Wang Innocence--"Man has received from heaven a nature innately good. By devotion to this divine  spirit within himself,he attains an unsullied innocence that leads him to do right with instinctive sureness and without any thought of reward or personal advantage."
Max effort to live this.
Confuscius said "He who depart from innocence,what does he come to?
Heavens will and blessing do not go with his deeds."
thanks for the kind welcome.


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## oftheherd1 (Jan 14, 2014)

Just saw this.  Welcome to MT.  I'm sure you will like it here.  As seasoned said, many good people here willing to share lots of knowledge.  Looking forward to seeing your input.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 14, 2014)

Just noticed this in the post. If this is truly Hwa Yu taijiI believe it is actually Liu He Ba Fa...not taijiquan as in Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu (Hao), and Sun


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## cloud dancing (Jan 19, 2014)

Hello Xue,
    Hwa Yu Tai-chi is a styl of tai-chi.Studied with Li good amount of time
names don't mean too much to me.seems waste to argue if it's taichi .
current "GM" has changed name of style.Li studied several styles of taichi
Felt his was best of all he'd studied
     My current experience.after leaning short Yang taichi is experience
Does the chi move freely=yes.
Are moves in harmony with taichi principles=yes.
Does it blend with other styles of TAI-CHI=YES
of course/I've only been studying Hwa Yu for about 42 years
so i'm just a beginner ????
Five word song/changed.sets-changed.I still practise what li taught me
With rowing cchanged to blend of Yang moves with HwaYu
so it's still taichi.
Supreme ultimate /swimming boxing/ridgepole.
 from Chiangrai.inside is light/music/feeling/liquid energy.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 19, 2014)

Not arguing, just making a statement. Nothing wrong with Liuhebafa


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## cloud dancing (Jan 21, 2014)

hey Xue Sheng
      current"grand M"calls it Hwa-Yu Shing-I liu ho pa fa tai-chi kung fu.
when the chi moves me w/o mind interfering /that's when I feel I am dancing on clouds.
Enjoy your posts of Dvds other taichi/other styles.thanks.For me I like simplicity.
hwa Yu/neutralizing energy. Yang-born took inbreath,yin -when I die I'll breathe out.
Daily.I  try to remember to enjoy my breath/while I still have it.More I can love my breath,
bettre life becomes. From my Raja Yoga master Prem Rawat.


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## cloud dancing (Jan 27, 2014)

Not arguing just making a point??????
Point is what?? that hwa Yu tai-chi is not TAI-CHI????
But is really liu ho pa fa 
good you get 2 points for ???? 
Explaining that for 42 years I have not been doing tai-chi??? but liu ho pa fa-style of TAICHI??
seems insulting to me Xue. But i'm little oversensitive,I guess.
And no it'snot chen style of wu nor sun nor yang nor anyother style.
It's HWA YU STYLE TAI-CHI.netralizing style.
It predates all of the other styles.Actually Master Li claimed that all the other styles of taichi were from HWA -YU.also Pa qua and Ying I chuan came from HWA-YU style of taichi.
Do you know translation of LIU HO PA FA???
6 LINES=one hexagram / 8 trigrams{pa qua} = 64 hexagrams/ I CHING BOXING.
Nowhere in NET will you find this translation.Old man Li gave me more than he gave to others.
because I studied with PremRawat/Maharaji-raja yoga/4 secret techniques/inside.
64 techniques /64is closing = darkening of theLIGHT384 moves. and close.65 return to standingIf rich-be humble.if strong-be kind.if wise give of what you have learned!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2014)

You do realize that capitalization in web world is taken asyelling and I really do not think there is any reason to yell

Let&#8217;s look at this



cloud dancing said:


> Not arguing just making apoint??????
> Point is what?? that hwa Yu tai-chi is not TAI-CHI????
> But is really liu ho pa fa



I was not arguing and I said &#8220;I believe that it was&#8221;, which means I could be wrong. I also never said I was making a point so I have noidea what you are asking here. I said I was &#8220;just making a statement&#8221;



cloud dancing said:


> good you get 2 points for ????




Don&#8217;t understand what that has to do with anything that Isaid



cloud dancing said:


> Explaining that for 42 years I have not been doing tai-chi??? but liu ho pafa-style of TAICHI?
> seems insulting to me Xue. But i'm little oversensitive,I guess



Yes I do think you are being a little oversensitive. Did not say you were not, said I thought it was Liu He Ba Faand not taiji. But to be honest they are incredibly similar so I do not see theissue nor the insult you feel you have been given. And I have been in Martial arts for a little over 40 years and in taiji for over 20 but that has no bearing what-so-ever on any of this



cloud dancing said:


> And no it'snot chen style of wu nor sun nor yang nor anyother style.
> It's HWA YU STYLE TAI-CHI.netralizing style.
> It predates all of the other styles.Actually Master Li claimed that all theother styles of taichi were from HWA -YU.also Pa qua and Ying I chuan came fromHWA-YU style of taichi.




Sorry, that is not true and it is historically incorrect. And for the record Wu style was originally a neutralizing style as well and thatcomes from Yang.

Bagua is as far as I know based on Taoist circle walking and that comes from Dong Haichuan
When you say Ying I chaun I am assuming you are talking about Xingyiquan which comes from Dai Xinyiquan and those are pretty much taken as historical facts I have never heard of or read any reference to Hwa Yu style as origin for Chen style Taijiquan, Baguazhang or Xingyiquan.

The reason I am thinking Ying I chuan is Xingyiquan is because my Taijiquan Shifu is from the south of china and that is how he pronounces Xingyiquan. But if that is not the correct style maybe you could provide me with the Chinese characters so I couild know what style you are talking about when you type &#8220;Ying I chuan&#8221;



cloud dancing said:


> Do you know translation of LIU HO PA FA???
> 6 LINES=one hexagram / 8 trigrams{pa qua} = 64 hexagrams/ I CHING BOXING.



You provided no translation and if what you wrote is the translation then you&#8217;re wrong
&#20845;&#21512;&#20843;&#27861;&#25331;

6 = &#20845; = liù
8 = &#20843; = b&#257;

Liùhéb&#257;f&#462;quán, literally means Six Harmonies Eight Methods Boxing

That good enough of a translation for you



cloud dancing said:


> Nowhere in NET will you find this translation.Old man Li gave me more than hegave to others.
> because I studied with PremRawat/Maharaji-raja yoga/4 secret techniques/inside.
> 64 techniques /64is closing = darkening of theLIGHT384 moves. and close.65return to standingIf rich-be humble.if strong-be kind.if wise give of what youhave learned!



OK I studied Kripalu Yoga, Power Yoga and Hatha yoga&#8230;.and none of that is relevant to anything here


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## TaiChiTJ (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi cloud dancing and welcome, I am wondering if this is the Master Li you studied in Boston with: 


http://vimeo.com/12207128


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2014)

TaiChiTJ said:


> Hi cloud dancing and welcome, I am wondering if this is the Master Li you studied in Boston with:
> 
> 
> http://vimeo.com/12207128





> John Chung Li performing Hwa Yu Tai Chi Chuan *(Liu He Ba Fa**)* in Boston, app. 1970.



The speed looks like Liu He Ba Fa to me... but if someone wants to call it taiijiquan the call it taijiquan


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## TaiChiTJ (Feb 3, 2014)

Interesting little tidbit Xue Sheng. I had heard that he marketed this as Tai Chi because LHBF was a difficult term for the public to take to. So, in conversation with another person, that other person suggested using Tai Chi as a name for the practice since the term "tai chi" was getting to be known. OK that's what I heard. 


Somewhere I saw that the other person who suggested this name change was Cheng Man Ching. That's a new twist on the story. Be interesting to somehow confirm it.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 3, 2014)

TaiChiTJ said:


> Interesting little tidbit Xue Sheng. I had heard that he marketed this as Tai Chi because LHBF was a difficult term for the public to take to. So, in conversation with another person, that other person suggested using Tai Chi as a name for the practice since the term "tai chi" was getting to be known. OK that's what I heard.
> 
> 
> Somewhere I saw that the other person who suggested this name change was Cheng Man Ching. That's a new twist on the story. Be interesting to somehow confirm it.



That is interesting, thanks

I always liked Liu He Ba Fa, even looked for a teacher a few years back, but never found a real one. And I do not doubt it would be a hard sell since many have never heard of it and would have no idea what it was.


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## cloud dancing (Mar 15, 2014)

Yes taichi tj.this is video of master Li from Boston.
was most amzing teacher of martial arts I've ever known.was
good friend during difficult time in my life.
Gave me my basics for studies I ahve continued.
Was first real artist i studied with.
amazing emptiness/inside so empty/could hear minds around him
af if theywere speaking out loud.
amaxing sensitivity.Great loss,I never completed my studies with him.
told me,I could move to hsing I or Pa qua or any other styles of tai-chi.
still effort daily to practise what he taught me.
thanks for posting this video.
Light conquers darkness.knowledge ends ignorance.


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