# Make Sake at Home



## kegage (Apr 1, 2011)

It's not martial arts, but I thought there might be some people that might be interested in this. 
How To Homebrew Sake:

http://www.taylor-madeak.org/index.php/2008/02/29/how-to-make-sake-at-home-a-taylor-made-g

Kevin


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## crushing (Apr 1, 2011)

From the linked article in the OP:



> Because of its alcohol content and the lack of hops and carbonation, most people refer to sake as rice wine. This is a contradiction in terms. Wines are always made from fruit, specifically the grape. Beer always contains hops, some kind of grain, and usually some amount of carbonation. Sake fits into neither one of these categories, though if you twisted my arm Id tell you that it would go in the beer category.


 
Personally (I'm not an expert though!), I would put sake firmly in the beer category based it being a fermented grain drink.  In various brewing and beer related books and articles I've read recently it's been stated that in the thousands of years of beermaking, hops is a relatively new ingredient.  Through the ages beer has been made with herbs, roots and other flavoring ingredients.

Anyway, once I get a few batches of other beers under my belt (in more than one way, I suppose  ) I think I may try brewing up some sake.  So thanks much for posting this.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 1, 2011)

crushing said:


> Personally (I'm not an expert though!), I would put sake firmly in the beer category based it being a fermented grain drink.


 
I would put sake firmly in a small cup and drink it... warm of course 


I don't know about Japan and how it categorizes alcoholic beverages but in China there are only two categories based on the English translation... Beer and Wine...

No matter what it is...if it ain't beer :drinkbeer...it's wine :drink2tha


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## kegage (Apr 1, 2011)

Crushing: Your very welcome. Your right about hops being a relatively new ingredient. The ancient Egyptians brewed beer from bread. I think that's the oldest known, but I am not really sure.
I also make mead, which is almost as old, (hoping to start a new batch in a couple of weeks), but I haven't done beer proper yet. I am not really a beer kinda guy. I do like a dark stout every once in a while though, but mead and sake are my drinks of choice.
At the moment I am trying to make some koji go to spore so I can make somemore kome-koji to start a couple of batches of sake. 

Kevin


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## crushing (Apr 1, 2011)

Kevin,   I would very much like it if you updated this thread with your progress, particularly if you included pictures.  Thanks and happy brewing!


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## kegage (Apr 1, 2011)

Xue Sheng : I do both mead and sake, and both seem to defy modern senses when it comes to being categorized. I see the point of sake being seen as a beer because it comes from grain, but has a wine-like consistancy and taste, and is not carbonated, hence rice-wine. Mead is the same way, wine like, but made from honey. I know that in the U.S. they are both legally condsidered wine. I have been checking this stuff out as I am thinking of opening a meadery.

Like you, drink sake warm. Why would anyone want to drink it chilled. Although, some, for some reason, seem to think that's the way to go.

Kevin


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## kegage (Apr 1, 2011)

crushing said:


> Kevin, I would very much like it if you updated this thread with your progress, particularly if you included pictures. Thanks and happy brewing!


 
Sure, I will be happy to. Updates are easy. I will try to post pictures, but I may have to do some fanagling. I am on a old laptop at the moment (desktop is down), and I will have to figure out how to get the pictures on here. Although, I need to figure out how to do that anyway. 
Are you just interested in the finished product, or the entire process? Be advised that almost everything I am doing, with the sake at least, is jury-rigged experimentation, but that seems to be a major part of homebrewing anyway. So, don't expect to see much sophisticated equipment. Not quite a mad scientist lab, but it is kind of esoteric.

Kevin

P.S. Sake has to be brewed at 50-55 degrees (F). One one of the things I am working on is a cheap and easy way to maintain that temp. Especially for those in warmer climes without basements. Like me. Pretty sure I have it figured out, but that is later down the line. First steps first.


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## Carol (Apr 1, 2011)

kegage said:


> Xue Sheng : I do both mead and sake, and both seem to defy modern senses when it comes to being categorized. I see the point of sake being seen as a beer because it comes from grain, but has a wine-like consistancy and taste, and is not carbonated, hence rice-wine. Mead is the same way, wine like, but made from honey. I know that in the U.S. they are both legally condsidered wine. I have been checking this stuff out as I am thinking of opening a meadery.
> 
> Like you, drink sake warm. Why would anyone want to drink it chilled. Although, some, for some reason, seem to think that's the way to go.
> 
> Kevin



Why would anyone drink it cold?  Welllllll............Same reason why many people drink wine cold. Hot wine (mulled) is tasty and a great New England tradition, but no one buys a nice bottle of wine for that. They buy bargain bin wine for that.  A quality sake has many overtones of flavors, like a quality wine. The practice of heating sake came about as a way to mask the unrefind flavor of lower quality product.  If you look at commercial products, a $6 bottle of the entry level Geikkikan is brewed in California and has the instructions to remove bottle cap before heating. A $30 bottle labeled for imply may very well have the instructions "serve cold " in english.   

There is nothing wrong with drinking sake warm, many Japanese do it.  They buy $6 Geikkikan for the same reason I do....I cannot always afford the good stuff even tho I can easily find it. Plus Japanese restants will warm a higher end sake for you if you ask, and sake bars will ask hot or cold at the time you order....at least the did for a gaijin like me...LOL. 


Apologies for typos...typing from the Droid.  

Most important is to enjoy a nice glass of whatever it is you pour and share


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## kegage (Apr 1, 2011)

Carol: Yeah, I actually knew all that. Just going with the flow. Bob Taylor, the guy that has the sake making website, actually goes into what determines what quality of sake, how to filter raw sake to get each level, which qualities are best drunk warm or chilled, and how to do that.

Kevin


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2011)

Carol said:


> There is nothing wrong with drinking sake warm, many Japanese do it.


 
Yes there is.. it is just plain WRONG!!!! :uhyeah:


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## Carol (Apr 2, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> I would put sake firmly in a small cup and drink it... warm of course
> 
> 
> I don't know about Japan and how it categorizes alcoholic beverages but in China there are only two categories based on the English translation... Beer and Wine...
> ...



Japan's is more complex, and structured off the drinks that they commonly produce. Sake is its own category, as is mirin.  Whiskey is seperate from spirits, brandy is separate from wines. Beer is...beer.  :cheers:


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 3, 2011)

Carol said:


> Japan's is more complex, and structured off the drinks that they commonly produce. Sake is its own category, as is mirin. Whiskey is seperate from spirits, brandy is separate from wines. Beer is...beer. :cheers:


 
The Chinese make it SOOO much simpler (as well as surprisingly confusing:yinyang: )

Sake, Mirin, Whiskey, Scotch, Vodka, Wine = Wine
Beer, Ale (possibly Mead) = Beer

As for Sake and for the record... I always drink it warm, IMO, there just is not any other way for me to properly enjoy it. But then when I drink dark beer I like it warm as well so maybe it is just me.


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## crushing (Apr 3, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> The Chinese make it SOOO much simpler (as well as surprisingly confusing:yinyang: )
> 
> Sake, Mirin, Whiskey, Scotch, Vodka, Wine = Wine
> Beer, Ale (possibly Mead) = Beer
> ...



The state of Texas has a completely stupid take on beer.  They classify beer as a malt beverage >= .5% but <= 4% ABW.  And Ale/Malt Liquor is a malt beverage that is > 4% ABW.  Basically, Texas says that ale is not beer and that certain lagers are ales.  Apparently came up with this for tax reasons:  http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/excise_tax/index.asp

This means brewers that package for Texas distribution may be forced to to print untruths on the labels.  For example, Sam Adams Noble Pils, a very nice crisp hoppy lager ends up with words like "Ale in Texas" on the label.

As far as temperature, cold kills flavors, notes and complexity whilst warmth helps bring them out.  For certain beers that you don't want to taste, they will have magic mountains in the packaging that turn blue that will tell you it's cold enough to drink, or vortex necks on bottles to help you drink them before they get warm enough to taste.


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## kegage (Apr 21, 2011)

A quick update on the sake at home efforts. I have been experimenting with the concept of producing tane-koji (mold spores) from the Cold Mountain brand kome-koji (mold impregnated rice used to convert starches to sugars) mentioned in Bob Taylors guide. I have had some limited success, but, with advice and technical help from Bob and others, I am still trying to refine the process.
I havent actually started brewing my own sake yet, and part of the reason is I dont have enough kome-koji. If this can be successfully accomplished, people, and me, would be able to produce their own kome-koji without having to order spores from Australia, or purchase more kome-koji.
Once I get the process refined I will post it here.

Kevin


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## kegage (Jul 5, 2011)

I know it's been awhile but here's another update. Got all the refinements done for producing the spores I need to grow the kome-koji necessary for brewing, and I have begun producing the kome-koji I will need. I live in a hot and humid section of the country and the required temperatures for brewing sake range from the low 70's to 50 degrees depending on where you are in the process. Very difficult to do unless you have a basement, or a box freezer, or refrigerator you can dedicate for brewing. Which I don't. Instead I have developed a relatively cheap and easy method for maintaining the proper temperatures using a cooler. If anyone wants details I will be happy to provide them. I should be able to start actually brewing next week.

Kevin


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## Carol (Jul 5, 2011)

I'd love to hear it more.  I live in a cooler section of the country and even here it would be difficult to find something in that range of temps.  Not sure if I'll ever get around to brewing my own, but maybe someday.... 

How is it going with growing your own kome-koji?


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## kegage (Jul 5, 2011)

Carol- Sure, not a problem. I have written an article on the basic method for maintaining the cooler temperatures, and by all accounts, so far, from Bob and others, it will work. I can send you the article privately or I can post here. You choose.

The kome-koji is progressing just fine. The first batch should be finishing up today and I will be starting the second tonight. I will need seven batches total. I am brewing two batches of sake. That is why I need so much.

A humorous side note: It has been very entertaining to see the look on the faces of my friends when they ask me what I have been up to and I answer "Growing mold in my living room." Once I tell them why they become even more intrigued.

Kevin


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## Carol (Jul 5, 2011)

If you don't mind posting it here, that would be great...I think there are a few hobby brewers that would find it interesting 

Have you made a successful batch so far?  Part of me thinks I'd put in a lot of effort and time, only to create something that I either toss out or put in the fridge and pretend it is Mirin


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## crushing (Jul 5, 2011)

Kevin,

I would like to see your method for maintaining cooler temps and see if I can apply it to fermenting a lager such as a pils, which requires a cooler temperature than what I've got in my coldest room.  I've been looking on craigslist for a chest freezer to convert to a fermentation chamber/kegerator.


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## kegage (Jul 6, 2011)

Carol- No I haven't actually brewed sake yet. The kome-koji is the last ingredient I need to start.

Here is the article. I tried to post photos, but it didn't seem to want to work. If you have any questions, please ask them.

Kevin 


*A Cheap And Easy Method To Control Sake Brewing Temperatures. * 

I live in Memphis, TN. Temperate climate zone, high summer heat, high humidity. I have seen several questions in the comment sections on Bob Taylor's site about controlling the brewing temperature if you live in a climate area like mine and you don't have a basement, or a box freezer, or refrigerator that can be dedicated for brewing, like me, but no real answers. I believe I have developed a  relatively cheap and easy method for doing just that. I have done some initial non-brewing control experiments, using water, and they were very successful. I got the initial idea from the guy that operates one of the local brewing supply stores (Mid-South Malts) here in Memphis, and I have tweaked it a bit, hopefully, to be more sake friendly. It may seem a little labor intensive, but I don't believe any more so than any of the other operations necessary for brewing sake.  
I have been very successful in maintaining temperatures at 74 degrees and 50 degrees with a fluctuation of plus or minus two degrees using this method. I have not actually brewed anything using this method yet. All the information I relate is based on using water as a medium. Your results may vary.  

Here's, essentially, how it works  

*Equipment: * 

*A Standard Cooler:* Big enough to hold your brewing vessel with a little clearance between the brewing vessel and the inside wall of the cooler. It is not necessary to be able to close the top. I am using a Coleman 75 quart cooler. A normal five gallon brewing bucket, or glass carboy, will work in as small as a 56 quart cooler, but it is a very tight fit.  

*1/2&#8221; to 1&#8221; Thick Open Cell Foam Pad:* Cut to fit the circumference and height of your brewing vessel. This is the yellow open cell foam style pad normally used as a pad on top of mattresses and for pillow stuffing.  You should be able to find it at your local department, hardware, or fabric store.  

*Plastic Bottles:* 2 Liter soft drink, or other similar size. You will need several. I recommend at least eight.

*A Thermometer:* I use a digital cooking thermometer with a probe attached by a cord. After sanitizing the probe and cord, I simply insert it through the airlock hole in the top of the bucket to take a reading.

*The Setup: * 

1. The day before you start the brewing process fill the bottles with water. Put four in the refrigerator, and four in the freezer.   

2. Wrap and secure (tie, tape, however) the cut-to-fit foam pad around your brewing vessel and put it in the cooler.  

*The Process: *

As you are doing the various brewing steps place two, or as many as you need, of the plastic bottles, on either side of the brewing vessel to maintain the necessary temperature for that step. The refrigerated water filled bottles for temperatures in the 70 degree ranges, and the frozen bottles for the 50 degree ranges. You will need to replace the appropriate bottles as they warm up, or melt, as the case may be, to maintain the desired temperature. Depending on your environment, you may need to replace the refrigerated bottles every four to six hours, and the frozen bottles every eight to twelve hours. I recommend, at least in the beginning, that you do temperature checks as often as you feel is necessary until you get the &#8220;feel&#8221; for how temperatures fluctuate in your situation. I would, at least, do temperature checks at the times you replace the bottles.

*Suggestions: *

1. Before you start using this system for brewing, conduct your your own experiments, using water as a stand-in for your actual brewing ingredients. Your process may need to be adapted depending on the temperatures and humidity in your area. Example: I have found the cooler I am using maintains the desired temperatures for much longer a period than I expected, and therefore I do not need to change out the bottles as often as I expected. It took me about a week to figure how to work the system. You may find that instead of two refrigerated bottles, one will do the trick for the 70 degree steps, or one frozen bottle may work best to maintain 50 degrees, or you may need more than two. Etc. 

2. When reducing the temperature from the 70's to the 50's it will take some time. You may want to use three or all four of the frozen bottles. When you get to about three degrees of the target temperature remove the extra bottle(s) and put them back in the freezer.

3. Warming the temperatures back up from 50 degrees will also take time. Since coolers are designed to maintain a cold environment,  you may want to remove the brewing vessel from the cooler to accomplish this in a more timely manner.


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## kegage (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry for the duplicate post. I have no idea why it happened.


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## jks9199 (Jul 6, 2011)

kegage said:


> Sorry for the duplicate post. I have no idea why it happened.


Dupe deleted.  Don't know why it happened, but I've tripped over a couple from various folks tonight.  I suggest maybe waiting a bit longer before hitting the "Post Reply" buttons again if nothing seems to be happening.


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## kegage (Jul 6, 2011)

Just since I posted this article I have realized a couple of things that might enhance some aspects of the process. As soon as I get the details figured out I will post an addendum.

Kevin


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## kegage (Jul 7, 2011)

In a discussion I am having on the Northern Brewers Forum a gentleman from Denmark shared an article about using a wet T-shirt to enhance the cooling needed to brew at the temperatures necessary for those style of beverages. I realized that this method could also be used to facilitate a quicker reduction to the temperatures necessary for brewing sake, so I have incorporated it into my method in the "Suggestion" section.

Here is the addendum: 

2.When reducing the temperature from the 70's to the 50's it will take some time. Adapting, once again from another technique, remove the foam from the brewing vessel and cover it with a old wet t-shirt, or other similar fabric, to help facilitate the reduction in temperature. You may, also, want to use three or all four of the frozen bottles. When you get to about three degrees of the target temperature remove the extra bottle(s) and put them back in the freezer. Once the desired temperature is reached, replace the foam to allow greater control over temperature fluctuation.

Also here is a photo of the entire set up. (I really got to make those photos smaller. Working on that.)


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## crushing (Jul 8, 2011)

Hooray for wet t-shirts!  

Nice picture and setup.

I've thought about using a towel or shirt for cooling and rigging up some sort of constant drip to it and then point a fan at it to help facilitate more rapid evaporation to help keep the fermentor cool.


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## kegage (Jul 8, 2011)

crushing said:


> Hooray for wet t-shirts!
> 
> Nice picture and setup.
> 
> I've thought about using a towel or shirt for cooling and rigging up some sort of constant drip to it and then point a fan at it to help facilitate more rapid evaporation to help keep the fermentor cool.



Couldn't hurt.

Kevin


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## kegage (Jul 8, 2011)

Had to move the cooler photo to another album in Photobucket. Here it is again.


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## RoninSoul (Aug 14, 2011)

I just tried sake yesterday for the first time. I really liked it. Good luck with your project.


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## oftheherd1 (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks for the link. I occassionally drank sake when I was on Okinawa in the early 60s, but seldom since. Tricky stuff. The Okinawans also had a sake called Shirasage (sp?) sake. Tasted just like a good Smirnoff vodka and many servicemen drank it with an orange flavored soft drink.

As to what it should properly be called, I guess it is country and in the USA, State specific. I remember North Carolina law required a Greek beer be sold as wine due to its alcohol content. I seem to recall that Korea has a word "sul" that refers to all alcoholic drinks, until you wish to be more specific. Once an alcoholic drink has been identified by specific spoken word, sul can become a pronoun as I recall.

I had heard of Makgoeli before I ever went to Korea, and it was spoken of as being of inferior quality as an alcoholic drink. After I got there and tried it, I found I liked it. I even brewed some on my own once. I then filtered it to make it more of a Tongdongju. It was made from a store purchased starter, and was quite good. Home made makgoeli in Korea is of course of varying qualities and flavors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't drink alcoholic beverages anymore, but if I did, makgoeli would be my personal beverage of choice.


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## kegage (Nov 19, 2012)

Well, it has been awhile, but I have finally been able toget my batch of sake started. 
For those that might be unfamiliar, I am attempting tocontrol the brewing temperatures of my sake batch using a cooler and 2-literhot water or ice bottles. So far, it has been very successful with very littledifficulty maintaining the temperatures to within one or two degrees of thetarget temperature. I have finished the Moto (yeast starter) and Moromi (riceadditions) phases and have just started the primary fermentation. If ya&#8217;ll whatmore detailed updates, I can post them. I have done some refinements on how-toarticle on this method. I am not quite finished with it yet as I am waiting toget further along in the brewing process, so I can be better assured of mydata.


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## Carol (Nov 19, 2012)

Glad to hear you are continuing to move forward!


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## crushing (Nov 20, 2012)

I was glad to get an email that there was an update to this thread.  Thanks!

I've been considering an electric fridge like this Red Bull one below for better fermentation temperature control.  I already have a temp control device which controls power to the fridge depending on the programmed temperature range.  I think a 5 gallon fermentation bucket or carboy will fit in it.

What is the batch size for the sake you are making?


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## kegage (Nov 23, 2012)

The recipe in the "Taylor Made" guide I am using is approximately three gallons. The primary fermentation is done in a standard brewing bucket, and it is suggested that the secondary  fermentation be done in either three one gallon glass jugs, or a five gallon glass carboy. I am doing a double batch of six gallons. So, I am using two brewing buckets for the primary, and will use one carboy for the secondary. If I have a little too much for the carboy, I also have some one gallon glass jugs handy.


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## Carol (Nov 23, 2012)

crushing said:


> I was glad to get an email that there was an update to this thread.  Thanks!
> 
> I've been considering an electric fridge like this Red Bull one below for better fermentation temperature control.  I already have a temp control device which controls power to the fridge depending on the programmed temperature range.  I think a 5 gallon fermentation bucket or carboy will fit in it.
> 
> What is the batch size for the sake you are making?



Did you buy the temperture device or build it?  I saw plans floating around to build such a device for a crock pot (sous vide cooking), but I haven't been too motivated to break out the soldering iron


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## crushing (Nov 26, 2012)

Carol said:


> Did you buy the temperture device or build it? I saw plans floating around to build such a device for a crock pot (sous vide cooking), but I haven't been too motivated to break out the soldering iron



I bought one.  Although I would like to get more in to 'homebrewing' the electronic components someday.


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## crushing (Jun 16, 2014)

It's been a while and I was wondering how it was going, particularly because I went to the American Homebrewers Conference last week and attended an seminar on making sake.  The seminar attendees were treated with some homemade sake.

The presenter, Edward Hoskin, mentioned Fred Eckhardt as having the "go to" recipe for beginners.  Based on that I googled his name and found this site- Recipe at HomeBrewSake.com

That may have given me the push to get going with making some of my own sake.


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## kegage (Jul 3, 2014)

Fred Eckhardt is also one of the people that is on the Sake section of the Northern Brewers forum, and like Bob Taylor, is always available to consult with about solving problems, giving advice, and listening to ideas.

Personal Update: I have finished my second batch (six gallons) of nigorizake sake, and it is now in the aging process. It will be ready for consumption in late September. I now age my sake for nine months (just like the pros do). My last batch wasn't ready at in the time frame indicated by the recipe, nor at six months, but was ready at nine months. This recent batch is tasting better than the first batch did. I believe this is due to using a much better brand of rice.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 5, 2014)

You're back, how are you doing these days?


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