# Need a Critque Here:



## Dark (Jun 17, 2006)

Ok my ground game sucks, I know this. But I want to improve on it alittle, so here is the last fight I got into that went to the ground, what I would like is some input on how to inprove or at least what to look out for. Had an X of my g/f comes by my house and when I asked him to leave he pushes back and enters my apartment and shuts the door. I reacted by slaming him into a wall by his throat and punching him in the face, at my second punch he executes an inside leg sweep and we go to the ground. I literally pulled him down with me by his throat and got my third punch in as well fell.  

His first reaction was to sprawl out, I responded my kneeing him in "cherries" and hooking my left leg around his when he went the close his legs to trap my leg. When he circles around I just relax and let him drag me, getting in knees and punches where I can. He goes straight for him pocket and I push his arm behind him and roll over trapping his arm under us both, from my isde a get the other leg around his waist and now have in a guard. I have my thumb firmly dug into his eye and was slamming his head into my floor when the guys next door and his buddy both cops break it up.I go to court in a month, oh and this guys was a state trooper himself. 

Anyway you guys see anywhere I need inprovements? I need to focus better on my ground game anyway...


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## MJS (Jun 17, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> Ok my ground game sucks, I know this. But I want to improve on it alittle, so here is the last fight I got into that went to the ground, what I would like is some input on how to inprove or at least what to look out for. Had an X of my g/f comes by my house and when I asked him to leave he pushes back and enters my apartment and shuts the door. I reacted by slaming him into a wall by his throat and punching him in the face, at my second punch he executes an inside leg sweep and we go to the ground. I literally pulled him down with me by his throat and got my third punch in as well fell.
> 
> His first reaction was to sprawl out, I responded my kneeing him in "cherries" and hooking my left leg around his when he went the close his legs to trap my leg. When he circles around I just relax and let him drag me, getting in knees and punches where I can. He goes straight for him pocket and I push his arm behind him and roll over trapping his arm under us both, from my isde a get the other leg around his waist and now have in a guard. I have my thumb firmly dug into his eye and was slamming his head into my floor when the guys next door and his buddy both cops break it up.I go to court in a month, oh and this guys was a state trooper himself.
> 
> Anyway you guys see anywhere I need inprovements? I need to focus better on my ground game anyway...


 
I have a question.  If you had him in your guard, how could you be slamming his head into the floor?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

Mike


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## Dark (Jun 17, 2006)

I was on my side, I just stayed there and slammed his head in the ground, my other arm was trapped with his.


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## MJS (Jun 17, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> I was on my side, I just stayed there and slammed his head in the ground, my other arm was trapped with his.


 
So you had him in the guard, with both of you on your sides?  Just want to make sure I'm reading this right.  If thats the case, another option would have been to try to attain full mount.  A much more advantageous position for you.

Personally, I think I would have gone with a lock or choke myself.:ultracool 

Mike


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## Dark (Jun 17, 2006)

This was about all of 5 seconds before it got broken up, and I found out he was a trooper. Then came the question why was he in my house? 

If I could have gotten the mount, I'd have moved to a back mount and then choked him out. Otherwise ground and pound was on my mind pretty heavily to.


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## Dark (Jun 18, 2006)

Come on guys Help me out, I know I need a better ground game... Please


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## seal (Jun 19, 2006)

Are you currently learning at a grappling school?  If so, perhaps you could repeat the motions with him and he can critique you as you simulate the fight with him.  

I think you may have more urgent matters, though, as it regards to your case.  Good luck with that.  What a schmuck -- I am not a big fan of cops.


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## profesormental (Jun 19, 2006)

Hi!

first, what you did right:

Trapping the arm that was going for the pocket. If not you might be really hurt or dead.

Also, you went for easy open targets.

now, what could be better:

more hip movement drill to get up or move in the guard. What I mean is that you could transition easily with good hip movement and make space to get in a more dominant position or disengage, get up and kick the guy on the floor or escape or get a chair or soemthing.

And you didn't control his hips with your legs... that way you could've easily flipped, sweep or control.

Also, from your description, using elbows might've been more advisable and fight ending. That way there is no ground fighting.

Note that this is general advise and I have not all the information needed to assess the situation.


Also, if you view this as a game that is not useful for improving fight ending and survival skills. The game is the training. The execution is a fight or combat situation.

Also I don't know where you live and what the laws are, but here if you start it it might not be acceptable for the law... which is trouble...

A baiting approach might've been better. You going for the throat might be viewed as aggravated assualt or worse crime.

A palm to the face looks like a slap and can setup elbows. You should work your clinch for control.

Anyway, do you get into fights often? I hope not since it's not very healthy, and here they come at you with guns if youi beat them up too bad...

enjoy! Hope everything ends well.

Juan M. Mercado


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

profesormental said:
			
		

> Also I don't know where you live and what the laws are, but here if you start it it might not be acceptable for the law... which is trouble...
> 
> A palm to the face looks like a slap and can setup elbows. You should work your clinch for control.
> 
> Anyway, do you get into fights often? I hope not since it's not very healthy, and here they come at you with guns if youi beat them up too bad...


 
I went straight into instinct mode, If the guy wasn't taller then me I would have been able to elbow him, ever tried the ground fight in a trench coat and leather pants lol...

The palm heel strike is a great idea and I'll see what can be done on the clinch thing. I rarely get much grappling practice and have most of my training in CJJ and Karate. My only real experience with ground fighting is greeko-roman and US Army Combatives...


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 19, 2006)

Dark,

It sounds as if your insticts guided you to a lot of GOOD techniques like trapping the arm that reached for something and "pounding".

From your description you were going for a lot of high value targets like the throat and the eyes.  These are great targets but if you really score on them they can be crippling or killing.  I don't know the context of the encounter and whether it justified lethal force but you could have been at a manslaughter hearing if you had crushed his trachea.

In terms of your ground game I have a couple of suggestions:

1/ Get with a BJJ guy or a MMA guy and learn reversals and escapes from mount and gaurd.  Knowing this would have given you a much better position when you were rolling and allowed you more options to use techniques less likely to kill but effectively control or subdue.

2/ From the ssame resource mentioned above learn how to flow from various Body Positions.  Mount is very common and effective but there are lots of others: Side Mount, Head and Shoulders, Knee to the Stomach and North/South.  Knowing these refernce points and how to smoothly transition between them is key.

3/ Get with a BJJ, Shoot Wrestling or Grappler and learn submissions and chokes.  Choking an opponent unconscious is a really great way to end the confrontation without doing bodily damage.

Good luck!

Rob


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## Dark (Jun 19, 2006)

Phadrus00 said:
			
		

> From your description you were going for a lot of high value targets like the throat and the eyes. These are great targets but if you really score on them they can be crippling or killing. I don't know the context of the encounter and whether it justified lethal force but you could have been at a manslaughter hearing if you had crushed his trachea.


 
Yeah I thought about that later, I shapren the finger nails into points specifically for the eye gauges. On the trachea thing the cartliage rings will bouce back if conpressed, so to effectively crush a windpipe you have to hit the Thyroidal Cartlage, I just had hold of the tube 

He paniced and it left openings which was what I wanted, but boy are you right I'd have sliced an eye lid... I don't have too many guys around hiere who study ground fighting so I'm at a disadvantage on getting better at it.


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## Phadrus00 (Jun 19, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> Yeah I thought about that later, I shapren the finger nails into points specifically for the eye gauges. On the trachea thing the cartliage rings will bouce back if conpressed, so to effectively crush a windpipe you have to hit the Thyroidal Cartlage, I just had hold of the tube
> 
> He paniced and it left openings which was what I wanted, but boy are you right I'd have sliced an eye lid... I don't have too many guys around hiere who study ground fighting so I'm at a disadvantage on getting better at it.


 
Dark,

There are some good DVD's out there to give you some ideas and I am sure if you asked around you could find a like minded player to at least try practicing with.  The other option is to look for a seminar and attend that, they can be a great way to kick start you into an art and leave you with drills and materiel to work on.

Where are you located?

Rob


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## MJS (Jun 20, 2006)

Dark said:
			
		

> I don't have too many guys around hiere who study ground fighting so I'm at a disadvantage on getting better at it.


 
Looking at your profile, it says that you live in WV. You may want to check this out.

http://www.trainmma.com/index1.html

http://www.advancedbkj.com/jiujitsu.htm

http://bjj.org/academies/

Not sure how close these are to you, but thought I'd post them in case you were interested in checking them out. 

Mike


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## Dark (Jun 20, 2006)

MJS said:
			
		

> Not sure how close these are to you, but thought I'd post them in case you were interested in checking them out.
> 
> Mike


 
Mike,

  Thanks since O got the word on needing knee surgury today, I think I'm gonna be more toward ground fighting now adays anyway


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## Eviscerate (Jun 20, 2006)

If you really want to improve you should take some formal instruction, add libbing on the ground vs. a grappler wont work. Its hard to picture exactly what you mean by your account but if you were on his side and had him in your guard theres a number of things you could have done in 5 seconds, you could have swam for a leg possibly and got him on pain compliance piching your ankle between his knee joint or depending on depth ankle locking him in addition. A couple reversals also come to mind, take some instruction you wont regret it!


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## spinkick (Jul 6, 2006)

instead of slamming his head off the ground why not gouge out an eye? or rip off an ear? hahaha   I'm sorry man its hard to crtique a fight from text alone Id have to see you actually go at it


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## Dark (Jul 8, 2006)

spinkick said:
			
		

> instead of slamming his head off the ground why not gouge out an eye? or rip off an ear?


 
Because my special training regime of watching Dragon Ball Z for 8 hours day wasn't working lol, actually I was trying to keep him distracted so I could  move to a rear mount and choke him out. I go to court over it in like 2 weeks yay...


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## kodo (Jul 14, 2006)

Hopefully, your 'instinct mode' will honed soon.  It seems strange that you got locked up so close as a first instinct when you are not confident with your grappling techniques.  
     I think you might want to do more kumite after a vigorous workout when you practice.  This will get you used to thinking during survival mode.  It's also good conditioning for your karate spirit.
     One more thing. . .Have you thought about getting a different girlfriend!  Just kidding.  
Good luck in your legal journey.


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## Shogun (Jul 16, 2006)

cop or not, just make sure in the case you explain he was in your house without permission. you felt threatened, and tried to remove him. He then proceeded to fight you.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Jul 17, 2006)

Shogun said:
			
		

> cop or not, just make sure in the case you explain he was in your house without permission. you felt threatened, and tried to remove him. He then proceeded to fight you.


 
Yes this is key.


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