# Leverage: strikes to beat bigger guys



## dnovice (May 17, 2009)

Hey guys,

I've been thinking of leverage ever since reading the "gracie way." Bjj is great for taking down big guys in a one on one scenario because of leverage. They attack the weakest areas in ways that even huge guys find difficult to defend against. For strikers there are similar areas-I'm not refering to dim mak- to work on if we don't want to pit brawn against brawn. (we fight smrt)

 I am trying to catalogue such areas. Here a list of places I think are good:
1)knees
2)elbows
3) the throat
4) the balls

Anyone else have other points or strike spots?


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## seasoned (May 17, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I've been thinking of leverage ever since reading the "gracie way." Bjj is great for taking down big guys in a one on one scenario because of leverage. They attack the weakest areas in ways that even huge guys find difficult to defend against. For strikers there are similar areas-I'm not refering to dim mak- to work on if we don't want to pit brawn against brawn. (we fight smrt)
> 
> ...


Behind the ear strike. 
Ear slap thumb in eye combo.
Solar plexus.


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## myusername (May 17, 2009)

Bang em' on the chin!
Jaw hinge
Temporal lobes
Throat/windpipe
carotid artery
cervical vertabrae

Any other targeting areas such as groin, legs, floating ribs etc is about me distracting them enough to find an opening to get a good shot at the above mentioned sweet spots. The creator of my jujutsu syllabus is of the opinion that to be a "man stopper" it has to involve taking away the airway, the blood supply or consciousness (a direct knockout).

Here is a clip of him talking about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-jWRrZ5J7s&feature=related


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## geezer (May 17, 2009)

myusername said:


> Bang em' on the chin!
> Jaw hinge
> Temporal lobes
> Throat/windpipe
> ...


 
OK, my problem with this is that there _isn't much that you can use against a big guy that he can't use right back against you!_ That's why little guys have to go for the nasty stuff right away. They can't stand there trading punches. They have to take the other guy out fast. It's like that signature line somebody uses around here (I can't remember who). Something like, "Scare a big guy and he'll hurt you. Scare a little guy and he'll kill you." Has kind of a Terry Pratchett ring to it. Regardless, it's the truth.


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## mook jong man (May 17, 2009)

Most of them are on or just either side of the centreline , one of the reason that Wing Chun strikes on the centreline is that the opponent is forced to absorb the full power of the strike .

 If the strike is done off centre the opponents body will pivot slightly and absorb only part of the force and the rest is wasted , but done on the centre he will have to absorb the whole lot which is more damaging. 

Having said that if I really want to put somebody down who is a lot bigger than me I would use a double palm strike to the chest or head stepping in with my full body weight or maybe a Bil Gee elbow strike to their sternum.


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

seasoned said:


> Behind the ear strike.
> Ear slap thumb in eye combo.
> Solar plexus.



What happens when you hit the behind the ear?


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

myusername said:


> Bang em' on the chin!
> Jaw hinge
> Temporal lobes
> Throat/windpipe
> ...



Nice video. Is there another clip where explains where to strike in the chin? At the moment im wary of solely striking the chin because of the reason he mentioned... It takes tío many shots to the chin to accomplish this.


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

geezer said:


> OK, my problem with this is that there _isn't much that you can use against a big guy that he can't use right back against you!_ That's why little guys have to go for the nasty stuff right away. They can't stand there trading punches. They have to take the other guy out fast. It's like that signature line somebody uses around here (I can't remember who). Something like, "Scare a big guy and he'll hurt you. Scare a little guy and he'll kill you." Has kind of a Terry Pratchett ring to it. Regardless, it's the truth.



I agree. Lucky for us the bigger the opponent the greater his confidence in brawn and for the most part his neglect in training how to use leverage. Human nature.


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Most of them are on or just either side of the centreline , one of the reason that Wing Chun strikes on the centreline is that the opponent is forced to absorb the full power of the strike .
> 
> If the strike is done off centre the opponents body will pivot slightly and absorb only part of the force and the rest is wasted , but done on the centre he will have to absorb the whole lot which is more damaging.
> 
> Having said that if I really want to put somebody down who is a lot bigger than me I would use a double palm strike to the chest or head stepping in with my full body weight or maybe a Bil Gee elbow strike to their sternum.



Yes, especially if the person is adept at dodging it becomes real hard to hit of center spots. But if the person is a lot bigger than you wouldnt it take a lot of energy and strikes to make a chest strike work? When I spar we pound each other chest decently hard. It hurts but I can still go on and trade shots etc.


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## mook jong man (May 18, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Yes, especially if the person is adept at dodging it becomes real hard to hit of center spots. But if the person is a lot bigger than you wouldnt it take a lot of energy and strikes to make a chest strike work? When I spar we pound each other chest decently hard. It hurts but I can still go on and trade shots etc.


 
If I am close enough to hit them they cannot dodge me because I am immobilising their arms with trapping as I am hitting and putting forward pressure on them so they are off balance . 

They can only dodge me if they stay out of range , in which case I will then chase them down with low kicks.

I would typically use the strikes I mentioned as a finisher , say for example on the end of a couple of chain punches. A double palm strike is very powerful and I can pretty much get larger people than me airborne and propel them back several metres. 

The elbow strike is devastating as well because it travels in a circular action and then comes crashing down point first into the sternum breaking bones and caving it in .

 Because of the way this elbow strike is done the force travels straight down into the body , much more damaging than a horizontal elbow .
 Since you mentioned dodging , It reminded me of a drill we use to do to improve reflexes and footwork . 

This drill will get you used to reacting to  a highly mobile opponent and staying in our prefered range. Stand in front of your partner and start doing light chain punching on his chest make sure are in the correct range with your elbows bent . 

Then have your partner dance around like Sugar Ray Leonard , get him to change directions and range constantly , he should be trying to get away from you and dodge you as much as he can .

 Your job is to try and react to his direction changes and changes of range by trying to stick to him like glue , staying in range and continuously firing those punches into his chest. 

The partner does not do any attacks , at this stage we are only working on being mobile in our stance , being in range and developing our reflexes in reacting to our opponents constant movement.

 Probably best to do it for rounds of about 2 minutes as it can be quite exhausting , when you think your footwork and reaction speed is up to par then you can go back into regular sparring with you and your partner attacking and defending as per usual.


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## mook jong man (May 18, 2009)

dnovice said:


> What happens when you hit the behind the ear?


 
Causes dizzyness and loss of balance , because it affects the inner ear which controls your sense of balance and equilibrium.
Not only that , it bloody hurts as well.


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

thanks mook for the clarification and detail. I will work on the exercise routine you mentioned to work on my mobility and footwork.

Does the palm strike immobilize the opponent? Also, is it save to try in a sparring session?


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## dnovice (May 18, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> Causes dizzyness and loss of balance , because it affects the inner ear which controls your sense of balance and equilibrium.
> Not only that , it bloody hurts as well.



Nice. Is there a way to bait the person into opening up the ear area so you can get to it? Also, what kind of strike do you use: full fist, palm strike, chop, or pheonix punch?


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## mook jong man (May 18, 2009)

dnovice said:


> thanks mook for the clarification and detail. I will work on the exercise routine you mentioned to work on my mobility and footwork.
> 
> Does the palm strike immobilize the opponent? Also, is it save to try in a sparring session?


 
No what I mean by immobilising the opponent is that I have his arms trapped by using wrist latching combined with striking , so that my arms are constantly on top of his and controlling them and clearing the path for further striking. 

The double palm strike is best used for example after they have grabbed both your wrists , just sink both your elbows down with the bottom edge of your hand cutting through the weakest part of his grip which is his thumbs , combined with a low heel kick to the knee then step in and double palm strike the chest.

 I wouldn't double palm strike an attacker in the head , it might break their neck . You could also use it against a double throat grab , just raise your guard deflecting both his arms up , at the same time low heel kick the knee and step in with double palm strike , timing the hit when your kicking leg hits the floor.

 You can use it anytime your on the inside of his arms say against a hay maker ,move in with your regular counter do a few punches then finish with the double palm strike. You can still use it if his hands are on the centerline but obviously it is a little bit harder because you have to trap him and get his arms down so the path is clear.

I wouldn't practice it in sparring might be a bit dangerous , you might get a bit carried away and knock him into a wall or something plus you never know what someones heart is like , a sharp blow can cause the heart muscle to go out of its rhythm on some people.

 Just practice it in isolation with him holding a big kick shield on his chest and you stepping in with full speed and power , make sure nothing is behind him or get some people to catch him.

 Make sure both your elbows are in as you strike the pad , with both your palms slightly cup shaped , making contact with the heels of your palms , stay perfectly upright , don't lean, and stay sunk down .

 If you want to practice it with techniques then just step in with your arms in the optimum angle and don't strike but just leave palms out and move him back with your stance or strike using very moderate power.


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## mook jong man (May 18, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Nice. Is there a way to bait the person into opening up the ear area so you can get to it? Also, what kind of strike do you use: full fist, palm strike, chop, or pheonix punch?


 
I don't know man some other arts might have some way of baiting the opponent to get to that area. But from a purely Wing Chun perspective if it is on the centreline in relation to me then I will hit it , but it would not be something I would specifically be going after.

 In Wing Chun to get at that area you can pierce through with your Tan Sau inside his defences and follow under  the jawline and hit with the edge of your Tan Sau palm ( pinky side) just under and behind the ear .

 Pierce through and then strike forward and slightly up. Another way would be from him throwing a straight punch , I throw my centreline punch on the outside of his punch and redirect his punch off to the side , then I change my punch to a latch , grabbing his arm ( don't use thumb ) and pivot at the same time. 

This usually has the effect of dragging them in so that they are now in a semi side on position to me . From there the whole side of the head , ear , body is exposed . 

If you wanted to hit that under ear area the best way would be with a palm strike using the edge of your hand and your fingers facing outwards at 45 degrees , again directing your force forward and slightly up , assuming the attacker is bigger than you.

 But the chances are in the chaos and adrenaline of a real fight you wont be thinking I'm going to strike his ear , you will just be going hell for leather with your punches because that is what you have practiced the most , and in real fights the tendency is to revert back to very simple techniques and the ones that are ingrained and that you can do with out conscious thought.


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## myusername (May 19, 2009)

geezer said:


> OK, my problem with this is that there _isn't much that you can use against a big guy that he can't use right back against you!_ That's why little guys have to go for the nasty stuff right away. They can't stand there trading punches. They have to take the other guy out fast. It's like that signature line somebody uses around here (I can't remember who). Something like, "Scare a big guy and he'll hurt you. Scare a little guy and he'll kill you." Has kind of a Terry Pratchett ring to it. Regardless, it's the truth.



When I mentioned those target areas I did not mean to imply that you are to stand there and trade punches. What I mean is that I am taught to view these as the only true "manstoppers." This does not mean that one would not evade, block and parry or even attack other targets. I advocate attacking other targets such as toes, shins, knees, groin, bladder, floating ribs, sternum, joints/elbows etc. However, I would view these striking areas as secondary to those in my original post, I would view them as precursors or set ups to me being able to get a good clear shot at those targets that affect the blood flow, air supply or conciousness of my attacker. I consider these secondary targets essential distracting strikes as people naturally defend their head and throat quite well but I do not consider them finishers. It would not be a trade either, once making that decision to initiate physical self defence then it is all systems go and it would be a blitzing mentality of combining an onslaught of strikes from hands, feet, elbows, knees and teeth!

Within the context that we are talking of a smaller person defending against a much larger opponent I would say that this is why we as martial artists drill our strikes so much, so that each strike reaches the maximum power that the martial artist can deliver. A smaller person can knock out a larger opponent with a well deliver palm heel or punch to the chin.

I know that this thread is dealing with striking but remember that if you are throwing your best shots at the jaw, temporal lobes, throat/windpipe, carotid artery or cervical vertabrae and it is not having the desiired effect then you are in trouble! If your hardest shot to the windpipe hasn't worked then standing there trading blows to other target areas isn't going to help. Your best bet is to close in, grab on a decent choke or strangle and hang on in there until it is all over!


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## qwksilver61 (May 19, 2009)

no mention of the turnstile theory? as prescribed on pg.49 
"Dynamic Wing Tsun" (first edition 1985) the first book on Wing Tsun that I ever bought,an invaluable training tool for the beginner.I didn't believe it until I experienced it for the first time...big musclebound guy takes a swing...I trust in theory...contact with forearm..he turned/spun me  towards him (adduction+relaxed upper torso)..sun punch (luckily) towards is upper chest...I almost put him through the wall....yield,press forward in this instance......bolting forward works too,but you better not miss....or stop.The wall bag drills definitely helped to develop smacking,stinging whip like punches as opposed to the forced punches delivered by most people,somehow people equate size with power,the diference between launching a fridge and getting hit with the business end of a whip.Ali was a very relaxed fighter,and delivered devastating punches,Sifu Emin is powerful but relaxed.
two cents....


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## mook jong man (May 20, 2009)

qwksilver61 said:


> no mention of the turnstile theory? as prescribed on pg.49
> "Dynamic Wing Tsun" (first edition 1985) the first book on Wing Tsun that I ever bought,an invaluable training tool for the beginner.I didn't believe it until I experienced it for the first time...big musclebound guy takes a swing...I trust in theory...contact with forearm..he turned/spun me towards him (adduction+relaxed upper torso)..sun punch (luckily) towards is upper chest...I almost put him through the wall....yield,press forward in this instance......bolting forward works too,but you better not miss....or stop.The wall bag drills definitely helped to develop smacking,stinging whip like punches as opposed to the forced punches delivered by most people,somehow people equate size with power,the diference between launching a fridge and getting hit with the business end of a whip.Ali was a very relaxed fighter,and delivered devastating punches,Sifu Emin is powerful but relaxed.
> two cents....


 
That is a good point Qwksilver about force = mass x acceleration.
The way we form our fist upon impact increases the acceleration and penetration of the strike more than conventional striking .

 Couple that acceleration with somebody who has a good stance and you have a Wing Chun person who has learned to maximise their force by the skillfull utilisation of their body mass. 

Or to put it more simply my Sifu used to say what would you rather be hit by ? A truck going at 50 m.p.h or a car going at 100 m.p.h


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## zDom (May 20, 2009)

myusername said:


> Your best bet is to close in, grab on a decent choke or strangle and hang on in there until it is all over!



see, at about 1:20


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## naneek (May 20, 2009)

lol "inconcievable"


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## myusername (May 22, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Nice video. Is there another clip where explains where to strike in the chin? At the moment im wary of solely striking the chin because of the reason he mentioned... It takes tío many shots to the chin to accomplish this.



Sorry I missed this first time round. I haven't found a video but in one of his articles on the subject he explains a little more about the specific chin target area;

"*The point of the chin or an inch either side is the prime target. The jaw will also provide a KO, but not as effectively as the chin. How you strike this target is down to you, whether it be with fist, elbow, palm heel, knee or kick.*"

He goes on to talk of other prime target areas. I know I ma biased but I think this is a good article and makes lots of comments relevant to this thread......

_*"But the question that really needs to be answered is which vital spots will stop an all out 'wired' assailant who doesn't care about your abilities, grades or reputation - whose only concern is tearing you limb from limb? Imagine for a moment, if you will your sort nightmare opponent. It might be somebody like one of the awesome specimens from the world's strongest man, or a relentless and savage fighter like Roy 'Pretty Boy' Shaw or 'Iron' Mike Tyson. It could be one of the best fighters on the planet like Rickson Gracie or Tito Ortiz, or maybe it's just some drugged up psycho brandishing a big knife.*_​ _*Whoever it is, they are annoyed with you, they have only one thought in mind, to take your life. Now what are you going to rely on, when running isn't an option, talking them down isn't on the cards or finding a suitable weapon to stop them isn't available? What pressure point or vital point are you going to place your faith and probably your life in? Can you really say you have the upmost confidence when the rug of compliancy is tugged away form beneath you?*_​ _*Remember we are looking for complete stoppers here, that will end the danger. Not hurt them, not stun them, bruise them or tickle them! These guys and their like are monsters with extreme pain tolerance. They will not back off because of a blow on the nose, a kick on the thigh or a poke in the eye! They are going to keep on coming. I have witnessed this sort of thing on the streets. *_​ _*I have spoken to people involved in hand-to-hand combat in war conditions and seen people walk through groin strikes, fight on with broken limbs or with ears hanging off and worse. I have boxed and fought in vale tudo bouts against opponents who just kept on coming even when you have landed big powerful shots. *_​ _*Also let's not forget the culture in our modern society of drugs and alcohol. These substances can dull pain the have an anaesthetic effect on the body, which can then take huge quantities of abuse. Once again when mind and body is 'hyped up' to fight it can take untold punishment without apparent effect or very little. So what do we place our trust in, in this most dire of situations?

There are only three methods of stopping somebody totally in their tracks and ending an encounter. You hve to attack their neurological system, air or blood. All will put the attacker into unconsciousness, which is the only time they are no longer dangerous. Forget anything else, these are the only 'manstoppers'. *_​ _*Let's look at the first method, the neurological system. Basically we are looking for the knockout which shuts down the brain functioning, and puts the attacker to sleep. The KO to the chin is the oldest vital point strike in the book, but still one of the best. Every boxer will tell you how to achieve it and in the competitive full contact arena it is nearly always a fight-stopper guaranteed.*_​ _*The point of the chin or an inch either side is the prime target. The jaw will also provide a KO, but not as effectively as the chin. How you strike this target is down to you, whether it be with fist, elbow, palm heel, knee or kick. *_​ _*Circumstances and skill levels will determine this. My personal favourite is the palm heel, or chin jab as famed CQC expert Captain William Fairbairn called it.*_​ _*Although the KO point of striking is the chin, the impact will be felt at the base of the skull where the vital systems of the cerebellum and medulla-olongata at the brain stem controls vital functions for breathing, heart rate and blood pressure. *_​ _*When we impact on the chin, the brain, which is floating in cerebral fluid, smashes against the skull, hence the knockout and the shut down of the consciousness. Usually the attacker's legs will buckle underneath them and they will collapse. Depending on the angle of delivery, they will go straight back, spin to the side or drop in a heap on the spot. *_​ _*The other thing to consider is their unconscious body impacting with the ground, particularly the skull, this can have a devastating effect. Second area to strike for that brain shutdown is the base of the skull joins the first of seven cervical vertebrae of the spine is the spot, which we have already established houses the cerebellum and medulla-olongata.*_​ _*Battering blows with hammer-fists, forearms and elbows are best for this target, especially if the person is bent over forward. This spot was well known by soldiers as an attack point with the butt of the rifle. *_​ _*Gross motor skills can be badly effected, particularly muscular activity of the limbs and this could result in a paraplegic effect. It is a highly dangerous point to attack but does require a certain degree of force and a battery like assault.*_​ _*Third and final point is the temples or more specifically the temporal lobe and the sphenoid bone, both situated about one and a half inches back from the eye socket. The temporal and meningeal arteries run closely to the surface here.*_​ _*Again when struck with heavy punches, hammer blows or elbows this can produce unconsciousness. Those who follow the UFC will remember in its early days, a couple of truly devastating KO's were produced by elbows to the temples. These three vital points can be finishers and potentially in some cases, lethal. Beware! *_​ _*Next up, air. Attacks directly to the windpipe can interfere dramatically with the breathing process. Knife hand strikes, arc hands, fore knuckle and pinch grip attacks to this area will deprive the brain of vital air rich in oxygen and the windpipe will spasm eventually causing unconsciousness.*_​ _*Naked chokes using the forearm across the larynx area can also constrict the windpipe, causing a gradual blackout. This is really a highly unpleasant feeling a nasty KO. Throat attacks are extreme defence for extreme situations.*_​ _*Finally the blood systems. Here we come back to the carotid sinus. The large carotid arteries carry blood to the brain, rich in oxygen. You have external and internal carotid arteries. These two arteries rise from the common carotid and there they join at the point of the carotid sinus.*_​ _*This is roughly level with the Adams apple and where you can feel a pulse beat in the neck. The sinus monitors blood pressure to the brain, it also houses a branch of the vagus nerve that controls the heart beat.*_​ _*If this point is struck with a knife hand blow, the blood pressure drops suddenly to the brain and we have a KO. Also a variety of strangles used mainly in Ju Jutsu and Judo, known as 'sleeper holds' can render a person unconscious very quickly indeed.*_​ _*The areas mentioned in this article are the only guaranteed points to put someone down and out, even then under extreme pressure they are still difficult to achieve. You have a better chance of executing them in a pre-emptive attack against an impending assault, rather than when your assailant is moving and attacking.*_​ _*If it goes to the floor, knowledge of control and pinning are essential to get your blows in. Elbows and headbutts can then be effective on these points as can vicious, last resort biting to the neck and throat. *_​ _*Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but it is no easy task to hit them.*_​ _*If you do strike with accuracy, focus and power even the biggest will fall. Do remember we are talking about life threatening situations here - not some minor disagreement or argument. These strikes are last resort techniques and NOT TO BE ABUSED.*_​ _*I had an opportunity to meet and talk to the legendary Roy 'Pretty Boy' Shaw some years ago and when I asked him his strategy to winning a fight he replied simply 'Bang them on the chin', enough said!"*_


Here is the full article


http://www.kevinohagan.com/Webpages/Pages/Articles_Self_Extreme.htm​


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## KamonGuy2 (May 22, 2009)

I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks, 

As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me

If you hit hard, it truly doesn't matter where you hit the guy. Kevin Chan punched me in the sternum during a demo. It was half his power but it felt like someone had thrown a car at me

Obviously hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum, but if they are a foot taller than you, you will find it hard to actually get the hit into the throat

I see students in class always trying to hit weak spots instead of keeping pressure on and working on delivering power

If you look for a specific technique, you could be waiting a long long time

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!


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## K-man (May 23, 2009)

In Kevin O'Hagan's article he says: "Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but *it is no easy task to hit them*."
He is not talking about a little guy attacking a big guy. In the OP we are given the scenario of David and Goliath. To get close enough to hit as some are suggesting is almost a death wish. To get inside a taller, bigger opponent and be able to hit with enough force and accuracy to cause injury or to disable would be just on impossible. Look at what geezer said:





> OK, my problem with this is that there _isn't much that you can use against a big guy that he can't use right back against you!_ That's why little guys have to go for the nasty stuff right away. They can't stand there trading punches. They have to take the other guy out fast.


Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:


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## myusername (May 23, 2009)

K-man said:


> In Kevin O'Hagan's article he says: "Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but *it is no easy task to hit them*."
> He is not talking about a little guy attacking a big guy. In the OP we are given the scenario of David and Goliath. To get close enough to hit as some are suggesting is almost a death wish. To get inside a taller, bigger opponent and be able to hit with enough force and accuracy to cause injury or to disable would be just on impossible. Look at what geezer said:Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:



Agreed up to a point, go for the knee, go for any strike that you can see but the important thing I think to remember is that you can kick the guy in the knee all you want but if he is bigger than you, tanked up on stimulant drugs or determined to hurt you then you shouldn't rely on the knee strike to be the finisher! 

Go for the knee and run away! That may work! But if I can't run away then I wont be relying on it to save me. I will use it, but only as a combo with the aim of enabling me to bring the guy down to my level or as a distraction so that I can get in the knockout shots. I'm not trying to say this would be easy as if your attacker is much stronger and determined to hurt you, then the chances are that you are going to have your hands full however you decide to fight them.


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## mook jong man (May 23, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,
> 
> As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you Kamon , just adhere to the Wing Chun principles and learn to generate power.
 Practice your stance and other basics and learn to punch hard and kick hard. As you said keep the pressure on them , hit them with a chain of techniques until they go down.

 Go after them with speed and ferocity continually using your stance to press forward and keep them off balance and in a defensive posture . Alternate between hand techniques and low kicks to the shins as you go forward. 

I remember one of my instructors saying to me , just remember a big guy has the same amount of skin covering his shin bone as what you do . A lot of people say yeah what happens if the guys shins are conditioned from Thai boxing , I say so what.

 My shins are conditioned from taking low heel kicks to the shins for years and they still bloody hurt me and that was from classmates , I wouldn't like to take one from somebody who's been training for years and knows what they're doing and can generate real power. 

The pain is excruciating , especially if they get that little spot with their heel just slightly to the inside of the shin and about an inch 1/2 below the knee cap where the nerves are. I've probably told this story before , but anyway I'll tell it again.

 One morning my missus was heading off to work , it was about 6.30 am , so there she is walking to the local bus stop which is about 8 mins walk. Along the way some scumbag jumps out from behind a tree and threatens her with a knife and says to give him her hand bag. 

This hero with a knife was about 6 foot and solid build , my wife is about 5 foot very slight build .She says no , he pushes her to the ground and tries to grab the bag , she won't let go of the bag. This maggot tries to slash her she puts up a Dai sau to defend and takes the slash on the outside of the forearm , from the ground she does a couple of heel kicks into his shins .

 He can't take the pain and hobbles off to his getaway car and scurries back underneath whatever rock he came from. Now my wife is no Wing Chun fanatic , she only trained haphazardly for a couple of months , she prefers shopping.

 But I taught her a little bit at home when I could persuade her to do it. Luckily she was able to remember some of it , she said that the bloke was definitely on something by the look of his eyes . Now what I'm saying is that she was able to make him abort the assault with her power even though she doesn't train regularly and is not really into Wing Chun .

 On reflection it probably would have been better if she just gave him the bag , but she is stubborn and Japanese , descended from Samurai stock . Whats to say if she gave him the bag he wouldn't of stabbed her anyway , thats the way these pricks are these days.

 She has a small scar on her forearm to remind her of the incident , and maybe somewhere in this losers drug addled mind he might remember the day he picked on a small woman who fought back and kicked the absolute crap out of his shins and made him think that maybe armed purse snatching wasn't a great way to make a living after all.


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## myusername (May 23, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,
> 
> As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me
> 
> ...



Agree totally about keeping the pressure on! I said in an earlier post on this thread about using a blitzing mentality. However, I do think that targeting is important purely for the reason you mention in your post "_Hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum"

_In regards to finding it hard to attack these targets above the shoulders due to the attacker being much bigger than you. In my very humble opinion I would suggest that it is still possible and one should always have those targets in mind. Going in and blitzing your opponent with hard powerful strikes is going to tire you out quickly so you need to have an end goal in mind. Yep totally agree, attack whatever you can see or reach as hard as you can but as soon as you see an opportunity to interfere with the attackers blood, air or conciousness you should take it.
I think that people are always looking for that magical off switch like the vulcan death grip!!! This is wishful thinking. I agree that working on delivering power should be the martial artists main goal, especially if you are a smaller guy as you need to make sure every shot reaches it full potential.

But at the end of the day if you have thrown your best shot at a guys throat and it hasn't phased him then no amount of striking other areas is going to help you, I would start thinking about moving from striking to chokes and strangles and biting.


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## mook jong man (May 23, 2009)

myusername said:


> But at the end of the day if you have thrown your best shot at a guys throat and it hasn't phased him then no amount of striking other areas is going to help you, I would start thinking about moving from striking to chokes and strangles and biting.


 
I concur , if you have exhausted all other avenues against some drug crazed cyborg who is hell bent on your demise and it is not having the desired affect . Then it is good to have the grappling as a back up , doesn't matter what particular drug cocktail he's on , slap a rear naked choke on him and he's going to sleep. 

Not only that , its handy to know just in case you have to deal with the drunken brother in law syndrome . A situation where it is just not appropriate to beat the crap out of some one with striking but more tactful and humane to put them in a choke , lock , take down , pins etc.

That is what Wing Chun lacks , it has been streamlined so much and cut back to the bare bones of self defence that the only response is the nuclear option . The only thing you can do really is vary the target or the weapon you use.

The problem is in todays society of litigation etc this all or nothing approach can get you into trouble , you have to have techniques that will address the whole spectrum of mild aggression right up to extreme aggression when someone wants to kill you.


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## dnovice (May 23, 2009)

hey guys,

Thanks for the huge response to my question? Reading some of the responses I think it is best to clarify some things before I reply to individual posts. 

The weak spots I am refering to are places you can hit that have an amplified effect versus other spots. For example, a good stamp to the knee has a bigger effect on an opp than a kick to the thigh. 

These weak spots are not a one shot kill spots. However, they increase the probabilty of winning; if there is no chance they create a chance. 

A lot of people as was mentioned look for one shot kill tech. That is not possible. However, leverage points exist that can methodogically applied to dismantle an opp. But usually to get to these points is treacherous... It takes more courage than normal to target some of these areas.

I think as a smaller guy it will take more work and courage than usual to defeat a bigger person. It's garaunteed. You will probably get hurt but you could still come out on top if you use leverage. I leave you guys with an example.

Take any of the good gracies and analyze their way of fighting. They are not the biggest of guys but have reputation of taking down big guys through the use of leverage. They win bouts but also take a lot of punishment. It takes a lot of courage to get close enough to apply their bjj but they still get in close. Why? Because they have faith in their leverage points. They know that to win they HAVE to get to those leverage points.


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## redantstyle (May 23, 2009)

not sure if this has been said, but i'll take a slightly different approach.

by all means, hit something soft or 'weak', with an anatomical weapon that is relatively small (for p.s.i./compression).

and more importantly, use their momentum against them.

classically, the big guy is liable to attack first, why not?  he is bigger and has less to fear.  it is natural for the big to attack the little.

so use a counter, but be sure to hit him as he advances, but before he settles fully forward.  this way you will combine momentums and get a lot more bang for your buck.

it is using his 'strength' against him.

regards.


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## dnovice (May 23, 2009)

Kamon Guy said:


> I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,
> 
> As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me
> 
> ...



I partially agree with you kamon guy. It is absolutely necessary to maximize the power of ones punches and kicks. Weak strikes will only hurt you.

Where you hit is very important. I would love to see a big guy come at me with a dislocated knee. If he is on drugs and decides to hop over to me on his one good foot I'll that one a very good stamp too. Then he can crawl over. LOL.

I think you are a big guy that's why you dlont see the importance of leverage. It's not wrong not to use leverage since as a fighter you work on your weaknesses. This the reason most big guys slug it out; they have faith and trust in their size. They are right in that sense. 

It is true the throat is hard to reach but there other areas. If you can't get to those areas and insist on the throat use trickery to get to it. Just be prepared to be hit hard in return. If you don't get hit fine. If you do it was a sacrifice to get the upper hand.


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## dnovice (May 23, 2009)

K-man said:


> Look at what geezer said:Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:



My sentiments exactly.


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## dnovice (May 23, 2009)

mook jong man said:


> I agree with you Kamon , just adhere to the Wing Chun principles and learn to generate power.
> Practice your stance and other basics and learn to punch hard and kick hard. As you said keep the pressure on them , hit them with a chain of techniques until they go down.
> 
> Go after them with speed and ferocity continually using your stance to press forward and keep them off balance and in a defensive posture . Alternate between hand techniques and low kicks to the shins as you go forward.
> ...



Your wife is very brave. I have a lot of respect for that.


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## dnovice (May 23, 2009)

I just wanted to quote sun tzu ( in his book "the art of war"):

"So in war, the way is avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak."


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## mook jong man (May 24, 2009)

dnovice said:


> Your wife is very brave. I have a lot of respect for that.


 
Yeah she is , a lot of people would have just handed over their wallet or bag . But my wife has got a worse temper than me , and she said that although she was scared she was mostly filled with outrage at how this bastard thought he could just walk up and demand her purse.

 Luckily she got out of it with only a slash on the arm , it could have been much worse . Since that episode she now understands that she came out relatively unscathed due to the small amount of training that she had done , and now when I say how about we do some training she really gets into it .

 The attack was a few years back now and she has trained pretty hard with me and taken her lumps and bruises and is just about at the level where I will teach her Chum Kiu.


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