# Core strength training and waist size?



## Carol (Aug 6, 2014)

For most of this summer, I've been patrolling my mountain with a heavy pack.  I have to get to the point where I can carry at least 45 lbs, and be able to move with it.   I've been doing this mainly by carrying a progressively heavier pack on the weekends and doing some exercises mid-week with a (lighter) weight vest.   As you might imagine -- my core is getting quite the workout.  

One thing that struck me as odd is that my waist measurement seems to have gone up nearly an inch.  This particularly surprised me as I don't think my clothes are fitting much differently, although with my shape being what it is (not ideal for off-the-rack clothing....) my clothes never fit absolutely perfect to begin with .... lol

Just curious -- what do you think the most likely scenario is here?   Waist size increase due to incosistent measuring ?   Or due to gains in muscle mass?  Or both?


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 6, 2014)

Dunno, and I'm hardly a poster boy for either strength or cardio, but I can tell you that my waist size has not decreased over the years I've been doing crunches upon crunches.  I've got a thick pad of solid muscle across my chubby midsection, I can really take a punch (I'd call that 'core' strength of a certain kind), but it didn't make my waist any smaller.


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## Buka (Aug 6, 2014)

If it's from gains in muscle mass, it's most likely the obliques. They're usually the culprit with waist size increases, especially in gals. (I have no idea why that's so)

Do you do any planks?

(and...HI Carol!)


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## elder999 (Aug 6, 2014)

Carol said:


> This particularly surprised me as I don't think my clothes are fitting much differently, although with my shape being what it is (not ideal for off-the-*rack* clothing....) my clothes never fit absolutely perfect to begin with .... lol



Sorry, I just can't resist: _She said "*rack*"-huhhuhhuh!_
 :lfao:

Seriously, it's likely a gain in muscle mass, as well as some normalization along with what I'm assuming is no change in diet-the normalization is a good thing-it just means you have to make the cardio aspect of your workout more challenging, as you're not increasing your metabolic rates enough with what used to be really hard work for you.....


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## Carol (Aug 6, 2014)

Buka said:


> If it's from gains in muscle mass, it's most likely the obliques. They're usually the culprit with waist size increases, especially in gals. (I have no idea why that's so)
> 
> Do you do any planks?
> 
> (and...HI Carol!)




Hiiiii Buka!!  :inlove: :inlove:

I actually don't do planks, but I could certainly work them in -- they seem like a damn good exercise that can be done anytime, anywhere.


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## Carol (Aug 6, 2014)

elder999 said:


> Sorry, I just can't resist: _She said "*rack*"-huhhuhhuh!_
> :lfao:
> 
> Seriously, it's likely a gain in muscle mass, as well as some normalization along with what I'm assuming is no change in diet-the normalization is a good thing-it just means you have to make the cardio aspect of your workout more challenging, as you're not increasing your metabolic rates enough with what used to be really hard work for you.....



This makes a lot of sense to me.  My chief medic and I were talking about fitness in general a couple weeks ago, he said he's gotten a lot of value from training with a heart rate monitor, and suggested that I might find one to be helpful as well.


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## mook jong man (Aug 6, 2014)

I read something a while ago about the old time bodybuilders how they used to have very small waists compared to some of those today that have chunky waists.

Apparently they used to do exercises called "Stomach Vacuums" where you exhale and try to draw your belly button in towards your spine , it's supposed to work some muscle deep inside that can't be properly worked with normal ab exercises.
Maybe you could try those.


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## Carol (Aug 6, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> I read something a while ago about the old time bodybuilders how they used to have very small waists compared to some of those today that have chunky waists.
> 
> Apparently they used to do exercises called "Stomach Vacuums" where you exhale and try to draw your belly button in towards your spine , it's supposed to work some muscle deep inside that can't be properly worked with normal ab exercises.
> Maybe you could try those.



Interesting!  So the 'stomach vacuum' works the TVA, and there appear to be a few other exercises that target the TVA as well -- including the plank!

Transverse Abdominis Workouts | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 6, 2014)

I imagine that all this hiking is really helping you to get in shape and that you have increased your muscle mass in and around your midsection and legs.  So good for you and keep at it!  Like Elder999 said see if you can increase your cardio.  Make sure you exercise cardio both aerobically and anaerobic.  With air and without air.  Hiking you are exercising aerobically with air.  Also add in some type of activity like wind sprints etc. without air.  Also see if dietary wise you can eat a little less.  That is the hardest thing to do!  I know it and I am a victim of wanting to eat see food. (anything I can see I want to eat  )  I am around doctors all the time and the one thing they all agree on is to exercise more and eat less.  Sure fire way to lose weight and tighten up the body!


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## Carol (Aug 6, 2014)

Oh....I have lost weight overall. I am down 25 or 30 pounds since last year and had to buy pants that were two sizes smaller for my work at the park. no doubt my diet could be a bit better, but I am hesitant to change. Until after the foliage season. no doubt, my cardio could be a lot better and adding some HIIT training is a great idea!

The increase in my waist size is what I noticed after dropping to my current pant size, that's why I was curious.


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## Buka (Aug 6, 2014)

The "Vacuum" works the transverse abdominals. Best thing about the vacuum is you can do it anywhere - while driving, sitting, standing, whatever. You just have to get used to breathing normally. (whatever way YOU breathe normally) We taught it to older, out of shape police officers, trying to get them back on the fitness tract. There were a lot of good results that led to other exercises. A minute an hour was what we shot for. Then two. While doing them, good posture with the pelvis tucked a little forward helps.

The nice thing about planks (figure wise) is they usually won't increase the size of the oblique, leading to a bigger waist size. If you WANT them to increase the oblique - when you do side planks, include a dip while you hold it. Not holding the dip,  but going up and down.


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## drop bear (Aug 6, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> I read something a while ago about the old time bodybuilders how they used to have very small waists compared to some of those today that have chunky waists.
> 
> Apparently they used to do exercises called "Stomach Vacuums" where you exhale and try to draw your belly button in towards your spine , it's supposed to work some muscle deep inside that can't be properly worked with normal ab exercises.
> Maybe you could try those.




Except that the waist increase appears to be functional. Due to her normal activity. I don't think you can counter exercise them back off.


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## MattofSilat (Aug 7, 2014)

If I were you, I'd take a look at the book 'Complete Calisthenics'.

It shows progressive steps on how to work towards the best core excercises that I've even heard of. Infact, most of the excercises in there work the core in some way.

The main ones are: Human Flag, Planche, Levers (Front, Back, Half) and Dragon Flag. The amount of contraction required to keep the body perfectly straight against gravity with minimal support means your core gets a ridiculous workout. I can't really explain it all here, but I'd start out with the Plank if I were you. Ah, yes, Hanging Leg Raises are also an amazing core workout too.

I'm definitely nowhere near these steps next, I just started the Calisthenics workout from that book, but I can tell it's very detailed. I'


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## Carol (Aug 7, 2014)

drop bear said:


> Except that the waist increase appears to be functional. Due to her normal activity. I don't think you can counter exercise them back off.



And wouldn't want to do so either as I need the strength.   

With my short stature and small torso, I've never had a well-defined waist, even when I was a skinny teen :lol:  A minor size changes like this is not really bothersome, I'm just trying to get a better grasp on what to expect as I'm still on a bit of a journey here.

The patrollers I work with have been really really good to me.  They could have laid down the letter of the law and said no, you can't join our team, because you cannot move the way we need you to move while carrying what we need you to carry.  Instead, they know I'm not their level.  They know I'm willing to work to get there, and they understand it is not going to happen overnight.

While I have tracked my weight and diet with varying degrees of rigor, around the beginning of June I started doing so more regularly, and started making measurements more regularly.  My goal is not a particular size or a specific weight, but a particular level of strength and fitness, and I'm trying to make sure that I stay on track.  I can't remember being this strong before, and I have to say....it feels awesome!!!


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## Carol (Aug 7, 2014)

Buka said:


> The "Vacuum" works the transverse abdominals. Best thing about the vacuum is you can do it anywhere - while driving, sitting, standing, whatever. You just have to get used to breathing normally. (whatever way YOU breathe normally) We taught it to older, out of shape police officers, trying to get them back on the fitness tract. There were a lot of good results that led to other exercises. A minute an hour was what we shot for. Then two. While doing them, good posture with the pelvis tucked a little forward helps.
> 
> The nice thing about planks (figure wise) is they usually won't increase the size of the oblique, leading to a bigger waist size. If you WANT them to increase the oblique - when you do side planks, include a dip while you hold it. Not holding the dip,  but going up and down.



Tried my first plank yesterday.  Got in 30 seconds before I realized barefoot on a slippery linoleum floor is not ideal.   Gave myself a few minutes rest and tried again on carpet, and was able to hold it for 60 seconds.  I'm feeling something different in my abs today -- not sure if it was from the planks or if it was from my buddy and I chasing each other for an hour after work on our bikes


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## Buka (Aug 7, 2014)

Carol said:


> Tried my first plank yesterday.  Got in 30 seconds before I realized barefoot on a slippery linoleum floor is not ideal.   Gave myself a few minutes rest and tried again on carpet, and was able to hold it for 60 seconds.  I'm feeling something different in my abs today -- not sure if it was from the planks or if it was from my buddy and I chasing each other for an hour after work on our bikes



One thing to be aware of - if you have to cheat, RAISE your butt, don't let it sag. If it sags it can mess up the back. I mean, try not to cheat, but we all have those days where we are more tired than we thought.
And don't do too much, build yourself like everything else. (I know you know, I'm just sayin Once you get used to them, here's a nice way to keep yourself occupied. Put a pile of ten - twenty pennies by your hand. Rise to the plank, get set, then pick up one penny at a time and transfer it to your other hand and put it down (keeping elbows on the floor the whole time). When done, bring them back one at a time. Keeps your mind of the plank, kinda fun, too.


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## Carol (Aug 7, 2014)

Buka said:


> One thing to be aware of - if you have to cheat, RAISE your butt, don't let it sag. If it sags it can mess up the back. I mean, try not to cheat, but we all have those days where we are more tired than we thought.
> And don't do too much, build yourself like everything else. (I know you know, I'm just sayin Once you get used to them, here's a nice way to keep yourself occupied. Put a pile of ten - twenty pennies by your hand. Rise to the plank, get set, then pick up one penny at a time and transfer it to your other hand and put it down (keeping elbows on the floor the whole time). When done, bring them back one at a time. Keeps your mind of the plank, kinda fun, too.



Thank you VERY much for the tip.  Proprioception (knowing where my body is) for me has always been a bit of a challenge, as strange as that sounds.  I stopped the plank after 60 seconds yesterday after getting an odd feeling in my neck, which made me realize my mechanics were probably off a bit, but I wasn't exactly sure where or how.  I like the pennies idea a lot.  When I was out bicycling yesterday, my buddy showed me how he had been doing some laps up and down a hill over in an old mill complex.  Some small indie businesses have moved in, including a yoga studio.  There was a fellow in phenomenal condition doing a plank right in the parking lot near the yoga studio -- with biiig headphones on.  I like that idea too


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## Buka (Aug 7, 2014)

Keep your head looking at the floor. Flat neck into flat back.....I guess that's why they call it a plank. (duh!) 60 seconds is probably too long, be careful, pal.


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## jezr74 (Aug 8, 2014)

I love/hate plans we have about 5 mins of planks each warmup, front, left, right, front again.. Kills my abs the next morning.

Can I ask what your diet is? If your exercising and/but not getting enough nutrients per week, it can start storing a more durable fat in an attempt to keep it long term.


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## Transk53 (Aug 8, 2014)

I quite like planks, it is one of the few exercises recently that has not had myself standing there thinking, really!


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2014)

jezr74 said:


> I love/hate plans we have about 5 mins of planks each warmup, front, left, right, front again.. Kills my abs the next morning.
> 
> Can I ask what your diet is? If your exercising and/but not getting enough nutrients per week, it can start storing a more durable fat in an attempt to keep it long term.



No problem.  I actually typed it out for someone else so I can do a ilttle copy-pasta here.  What I eat (and what I don't eat) is based heavily on how I feel after eating it so I doubt I'll be changing this too much. 

--  Generous amounts of local vegetables first, with decent proportions of local meats.  
---- Farmers markets  strongly preferred over grocery stores
---- Grass fed strongly preferred over grain  fed. 
---- Lean preferred over fatty.  

-- local pastured eggs 

-- Fish (incl. sushi), when i can afford it.  Fatty preferred over lean.

-- Some minimally processed foods, if circumstances warrant
---- smoked meats 
---- canned tuna, chicken, or ham
---- frozen or canned vegetables 

-- No other processed foods, no diet gimmicks

-- minimum 3 cups of fresh salad greens per day

-- some fresh fruits, esp. berries or seasonal offerings

-- Healthy added fats, olives, olive oil, avocado, coconut oil/butter, some grass-fed butter  (preferably cultured) 

-- No grains, corn, or white potatoes with the exception of rice in my  sushi

-- Limited starch from other forms (sweet potatoes, yams, yucca, etc) 

-- Limited dairy -- milk for my coffee, small portions of cheese - grass-fed  preferred, raw milk preferred even more 

-- No artifical sweetners, no processed sugar.  
----- local maple syrup or honey  used only if a recipe genuinely needs it 

-- Small amounts of nuts, seeds, or their butters

I eat a few things on trail that I normally wouldn't eat due to the demands of patrol: gatorade, dark chocolate, fudge, trail mix, protein bars.


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2014)

Just took another set of measurements.  My waist has returned to its previous size.  This wasn't muscle or fat, it was just water (hormonal).    

Why that didn't occur to me, I'm not sure... :duh:


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 8, 2014)

Carol said:


> Just took another set of measurements.  My waist has returned to its previous size.  This wasn't muscle or fat, it was just water (hormonal).
> 
> Why that didn't occur to me, I'm not sure... :duh:



I realize you are upset but whatever you do....STAY AWAY FROM THE MAGLITES :uhyeah:


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2014)

I've....had to make friends with maglites.  There, I said it.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 8, 2014)

Carol said:


> I've....had to make friends with maglites.  There, I said it.



Still not gonna lend you my maglite


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## Carol (Aug 8, 2014)

Its...OK.  I understand, I think....


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 8, 2014)

Carol said:


> Its...OK.  I understand, I think....



Oh you think....oh Manos: The Hands Maglite DOOM!!!!!


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## jezr74 (Aug 10, 2014)

Carol said:


> No problem.  I actually typed it out for someone else so I can do a ilttle copy-pasta here.  What I eat (and what I don't eat) is based heavily on how I feel after eating it so I doubt I'll be changing this too much.
> 
> --  Generous amounts of local vegetables first, with decent proportions of local meats.
> ---- Farmers markets  strongly preferred over grocery stores
> ...


Well,  looks like your worked it out. 

That's a commendable diet, very nice.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 11, 2014)

If you want good core strength do v-ups. They're somewhat like situps except your feet also come up so you form a v. Very hard to do but an excellent workout.


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## Buka (Aug 11, 2014)

*EDIT - This post was supposed to go in Billc's firearm instructor's thread. I have no idea how it got here, because I wasn't on this thread today. I'll see if I can delete/move it*.

Post moved to proper thread..


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## Shai Hulud (Nov 10, 2014)

Hello, Carol. 

You may want to try measuring again, but I've experienced something similar since starting my Caveman training program and working with progressively heavier kettlebells. I've gone from a 24 to a 26 around the waist.  Pretty sure it's muscle mass.

Cheers, 
Ally


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