# gojuryu..  incorporating the flow?



## ShobukanGoju (May 22, 2003)

ok, i dont typically ask questions where i know there should be an apparent answer.. especially when related directly to training.  my philosophy is, do it, do it again, then see what happens..

anyway, time to break tradition. (sorta)

the further along you get in a system, the more advanced the moves.  (easy enough, makes sense).  well, the essence of gojoryu is a hard/soft style.. more on the hard at first, and the soft at an advanced level.  there are techniques at an advanced level that incorporate more 'flow',,  less linear blocks, more use of opponents motion, etc.

however, when doing bunkai (sp?) of kata, there still seems to be more 'hard'.  we frequently practice goshin jitsu (self defense?) techniques, etc, which all seem to go back to the hard.  

ex:  why take a middle block and hold it, setting up for a counter, when you can instead use that energy to throw the person off balance?

do i make any sense? 

anyway, if the answer is "give it time".. thats cool..  b/c thats sort of what i had in mind.. 

thx all..
:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (May 23, 2003)

Good questions that deserve equally good answers, however, our foremost authority (Mike Clarke) on Okinawan Goju has left this forum.
You might want to email him with your questions as I am sure he could help since he lived and trained at the Goju HQ in Okinawan for some time.


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## Sauzin (Jun 6, 2003)

That is a good question, and I most definitely don't have an answer.  I only practiced Go-Ju-Ryu for a year and a half then I moved to Okinawan Kenp, but my Go-Ju sensie did say one thing before he I left.  He said "When youre practicing kata by yourself there are no stops from one move to the next.  This is how you learn what kata really means."  That was obviously his perspective on it and when you practice Go-Ju kata this way, it looks nothing like what you see in the classroom.  I couldnt tell you why all Go-Ju kata is practiced the way it is.  I would guess that some reasons would include working on precision of technique, learning how to finish a motion before you go to the next, and understanding the transference of energy in each move.  But after you've reached these understandings, I honestly don't know the benefit of practicing kata with distinctions between movements.


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## RyuShiKan (Jun 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sauzin _
> *That is a good question, and I most definitely don't have an answer.  I only practiced Go-Ju-Ryu for a year and a half then I moved to Okinawan Kenpo, ........ *




Did you train in Okinawa with Mr. Nakamura?


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## ShobukanGoju (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sauzin _
> *That is a good question, and I most definitely don't have an answer.  I only practiced Go-Ju-Ryu for a year and a half then I moved to Okinawan Kenp, but my Go-Ju sensie did say one thing before he I left.  He said "When youre practicing kata by yourself there are no stops from one move to the next.  This is how you learn what kata really means."  That was obviously his perspective on it and when you practice Go-Ju kata this way, it looks nothing like what you see in the classroom.  I couldnt tell you why all Go-Ju kata is practiced the way it is.  I would guess that some reasons would include working on precision of technique, learning how to finish a motion before you go to the next, and understanding the transference of energy in each move.  But after you've reached these understandings, I honestly don't know the benefit of practicing kata with distinctions between movements. *



your sensei is correct. i think the reason you practice with 'distinctions' is only to keep a cadance when training in groups.  on your own, its free flow..  

this, however, doesnt really have much to do with my original quesiton, as i was referring to the movement within each move, not from move to move.

i think ive stumbled on my own answer, and, as always, it just takes time.. 

thx


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## kkbb (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ShobukanGoju _
> *ok, i dont typically ask questions where i know there should be an apparent answer.. especially when related directly to training.  my philosophy is, do it, do it again, then see what happens..
> 
> anyway, time to break tradition. (sorta)
> ...



The movement(s) you perform while doing kata are meant to be smooth and without hesitation.  They flow from one technique to the other and seem to be softer and more fluid, especially at speed.  When applying the bunkai (assuming the instructor really knows the techniques) and your style is known to be a bit hard then they should be harder. 

Kata is like a dance... smoother...you have probabley even noticed that some of the movements are not in the bunkai or even "off angle"to the bunkai.



> ex:  why take a middle block and hold it, setting up for a counter, when you can instead use that energy to throw the person off balance?[/B]



Try doing this technique at *speed* ....you will find that it will "flow"... rather than be "hard."


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## ShobukanGoju (Jun 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kkbb _
> *try doing this technique at speed ....you will find that it will "flow"... rather than be "hard." *



Yes, very true..
thx


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## Sauzin (Jun 9, 2003)

> Did you train in Okinawa with Mr. Nakamura?



No I did not.  I trained with Ike Miyagi an 8th dan along with Wade Chroniger a 3rd dan.


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