# a serious question of real life application



## ABanzhof (Nov 20, 2010)

So I have just become an adult and finished paying off my first house now the next important step for me is preparing for disaster. I have a whole room full of emergency food supply, lots of seeds, ammo, and one of the nicest combat rifles money can buy. I thought i was totally prepared until last night when i was watching the movie "the road." While watching i came to the startling realization that i overlooked something big, in a post apocalyptic situation ammo conservation is a must as well as having the ability to still fight when 99% of the worlds ammunition has already been expended, what i need is a melee weapon that will give me a competitive edge in melee combat situations. Now i must admit i have some martial arts experience but little to no experience with weapons, this is why i need the help of seasoned ma practitioners in narrowing down the myriad of melee weapon choices available to me.

My first question is what type of of weapon should I chose. My second question is what brand/model to get for a particular weapon type with a 600 dollar price limit though this is somewhat subject to reconsideration if i really need to spend an extra couple hundred for a ridiculous quality difference. 

Before you make a suggestion there are at least four important factors that i can think of to consider, the types of weapons my theoretical challengers will be likely to wield i.e. metal pipes, machetes, knives and baseball bats spiked or otherwise, the learning curve as i will be spending little to no time practicing before the need arises, the durability as it will need to be able to kill hundreds of opponents before needing replacement, and of course a little info on me the wielder, i am a 6ft tall 200lb male.

In my mind ive narrowed it down to spear or rapier/dagger combo, but this is certainly subject to change because as stated earlier i have little experience in this field, a well reasoned argument will almost surely alter my perception. Its the learning curve issue that made the spear stick out in my mind. It seems to me that if two complete newbies were pitted against each-other with their choice of melee weapons a spear would be the best choice as neither would be capable of blocking effectively meaning the one with the longest range wins almost every time.

Also i have been thinking that since there is little to no incentive for a spear maker to put the level of quality into is product necessary for it to be a practical tool for real life combat situations, and since military's all around the world use daggers maybe my best option is to modify a rigorously tested dagger into a spear.

On one final note, are their spears with metal shafts instead of wood. It seems imperative for the shaft to be able to block blades with out the need for immediate repair. Maybe what i need to do is have a shaft machined for me with a titanium core for the light weight and a steel outer layer for blocking bladed attacks then fasten a dagger to the end somehow but i really don't know how to go about making something as customized as this, maybe someone else does? 

Anyway thanks in advance for your time nd before you ask "is this guy serious" yes I am VERY serious.


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## Tez3 (Nov 20, 2010)

I think you will also need a medical degree in emergency and combat medicine, you'll need a wife and several children not fathered by you or with her to ensure the human race continues without inbreeding. You'll need animals for food, leather, glue etc, a veggie garden for your greens, a well that can withstand a siege. 
Zombie hunting is a speciiality of the people here so I expect plenty of posts telling you what kills them, I believe CDs do a good job.


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## Sukerkin (Nov 20, 2010)

That's a bit of an odd one for a first post, ABanzhof.

I'd suggest taking a wander over to the Meet & Greet forum and introducing yourself.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 20, 2010)

i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone, i hope that doesn't offend but i didn't know where else to turn, im not a martial artist but i need the advice of martial artists at this particular juncture in my life


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## oaktree (Nov 20, 2010)

> My first question is what type of of weapon should I chose. My second question is what brand/model to get for a particular weapon type with a 600 dollar price limit though this is somewhat subject to reconsideration if i really need to spend an extra couple hundred for a ridiculous quality difference.


 
Your first question reads as 1.a video game addict 2.someone who lost touch with reality
 It is ok to post as a *Hypothetical question* but you tend to take it serious which is disturbing.



> "is this guy serious" yes I am VERY serious.





> i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone, i hope that doesn't offend but i didn't know where else to turn, im not a martial artist but i need the advice of martial artists at this particular juncture in my life


 
I really hope that you do not get the answers you are looking for.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 20, 2010)

why should one not take insuring the safety of their family and loved ones seriously? are you so naive as to think that the use of deadly force is never warranted? or that circumstances which would warrant it never arise? Or maybe you think that modern society is totally secure and nothing could ever cause it to break down. If this is the case may i remind you that over 20 countries on the planet have weapons that are capable of destroying every microchip in the united states with a single blast. One of these countries being china, china who ownes a huge portion of our national debt, and the only way the united states can currently make its minimum interest payments is to borrow more money thus increasing said interest payments with each passing day, and lets face it china is really starting to get pissed at us for continually debasing our own currency in order to lessen our obligation to them, and rightfully so! they lend us trillions of dollars we spend it then print so much money out of thin air that when we turn around to repay our debt the dollar is worth a quarter of what it was when they lent it to us meaning we stole 3/4 of the money they lent us. Stop for a moment and contemplate just what aspects of your life which are essential to your survival require microchips somewhere in the process, ill give you a hint, all of them. If that isnt enough of a wake up call the sun naturally produces solar flares which release emps powerful enough to destroy every microchip on 50% of the planet roughly every 50 years, and guess what, its been 50 years since the last one. You say i sound like a video game addict, i say you sound like a main stream media addict.


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## baron (Nov 20, 2010)

Well for a medium to long range weapon how about a sling and staff.  Generally speaking rocks are easy to locate.  Remember the story of King David in 1 Samuel 17, he slew a bear, a lion, and a giant.  He had just his staff and his sling.  Read the story and see how the King Saul gave David his armor, sword, but David said he could not use them because he had not proved them.  But David did prove his staff and sling.  You say you will not spend much time with what ever you choose untill you need to.  Remember David proved his weapons every day. Martial artist train daily proving their ability (sharpening their skills).  

According to the new TV show The Walking Dead gunfire draws them to you.  So I can see why you are looking for a weapon that will be quiet and conserve your amo.  But remember if you still do not train when you enter hand to hand combat you will become tired and then be supper.  Because there will always be more of them, than of you.

Please PM me with instructions of how to get to your houes so if this happens my family and I will be at your door. lol.

So the best you can do is train hard daily and enjoy your life.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 20, 2010)

so i think ive found my solution. I dont trust the quality of spears on the market today because there is no need for a spear to be a reliable weapon for real life combat because such a situation never arises and so what incentive would any company have to produce such a product but daggers on the other hand are used by militaries all around the world. This dagger in perticular is used by the united kingdom special forces (http://www.blackhawk.com/product/United-Kingdom-Special-Forces,1244,35.htm) so you can be sure that it is unquestionably durable and reliable. This is the hardest wood on the planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae). This website sells lignum vitae according to custom specifications (http://www.lignum-vitae.com/). So i have a new question to pose, can anyone see any reason why i shouldnt mount the uk-sfk on the end of a 7 ft lignum vitae pole and call it the worlds most practical real life combat spear? maybe balancing would be an issue? or the weight would just be totally unmanageable?


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## ABanzhof (Nov 20, 2010)

i like the sling idea, i had not even considered it, thankyou


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## oaktree (Nov 20, 2010)

> why should one not take insuring the safety of their family and loved ones seriously? are you so naive as to think that the use of deadly force is never warranted? or that circumstances which would warrant it never arise?


 
That is not how you proposed the question. You proposed it in a format that sounds like 1.someone lost in video games 2.some crazy end of the world nut.

You speaking of this:


> durability as it will need to be able to kill hundreds of opponents


Speaks volumes of your maturity level and/or to be taken seriously.



> Or maybe you think that modern society is totally secure and nothing could ever cause it to break down.


Secure enough were I do not need to post on an internet forum speaking about the end of the world and how to prepare for it.



> . If this is the case may i remind you that over 20 countries on the planet have weapons that are capable of destroying every microchip in the united states with a single blast.


 
May I remind you to look up the word Paranoid:
*2.*_Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others:_



> One of these countries being china, china who ownes a huge portion of our national debt, and the only way the united states can currently make its minimum interest payments is to borrow more money thus increasing said interest payments with each passing day, and lets face it china is really starting to get pissed at us for continually debasing our own currency in order to lessen our obligation to them, and rightfully so!


 
As others have pointed out China has no interests as of now to destroy America(if they could) Here I will say it in Chinese for you:
&#20013;&#22269;&#27809;&#26377;&#20852;&#36259;&#21644;&#32654;&#22269;&#25171;&#20183;&#12290;zhongguo meiyou xingqu he meiguo dazhang=Chinese have no interes in fighting Americans.



> Stop for a moment and contemplate just what aspects of your life which are essential to your survival require microchips somewhere in the process, ill give you a hint, all of them. If that isnt enough of a wake up call the sun naturally produces solar flares which release emps powerful enough to destroy every microchip on 50% of the planet roughly every 50 years, and guess what, its been 50 years since the last one. You say i sound like a video game addict, i say you sound like a main stream media addict.


 
I did not know my Lungs were made of Microchips(Air) did not know my food was made out of Microchips(food) Did not know my bed was made out of Microchips(sleep)

Can you break up your sentences so they are easier to read you sound like a rambling mad man!! But your whole point as you said:



> i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone,


 
Sorry not everyone thinks you are a rational person with good intentions. Maybe if you posted as a Hypothetical question I would take it more serious or maybe if you said against a home burgular I'd take it serious but with your words I stick my finger at my screen pointing at you and laughing:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Tez3 (Nov 21, 2010)

ABanzhof said:


> i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone, i hope that doesn't offend but i didn't know where else to turn, im not a martial artist but i need the advice of martial artists at this *particular juncture in my life*


 

Those zombies are a real pain to get rid of aren't they? It's not like you can take them to be rehomed like unwanted kittens or puppies. 

We didn't have thousands rampaging last night just 700 squaddies up here on exercise determined to drink the place dry and fight anyone who stood still long enough,it was great fun! Haven't enjoyed myself so much for a long time, ah I love the sound of handcuffs clicking on in the early morning ROFL.
Sorry sidetracked thread there but then it's probably not a bad thing!

Ok guys back to the OP, how does one kill that many zombies, has anyone here seen Shaun of the Dead? Great film, lots of ideas of what to do when they come for you.


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## Chris Parker (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm not going through the lunacy of your OP, but I will take this apart:



ABanzhof said:


> i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone


 
Your entire question is based in delusional paranoia. This is not the forum for that, a psychologist's office is. No sane, rational person will treat it seriously.



ABanzhof said:


> , i hope that doesn't offend but i didn't know where else to turn


 
No, this isn't the only place you turned: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97518

Here it is the identical post, the identical OP, the identical title, which makes me think that you are actually just a troll, doing this for your own sense of fun. If not, seriously, get to a psychologist straight away, you need help.



ABanzhof said:


> , im not a martial artist but i need the advice of martial artists at this particular juncture in my life


 
If you have no training (not a martial artist), what on earth makes you think any weapon suggestion is a good one? First step is normally to get training, but in your case, see the psych first. You need it.

EDIT: Okay, just checked your profile. What do you mean when you say you're not a martial artist, then claim on your profile that you are an Isshin Ryu purple belt? Seriously, such things just scream "Troll!" to me.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 21, 2010)

to oaktree

its very difficult for me to break this concept down simply enough for a sheep to understand, but ill do my best to bring it down to your level. This whole issue doesn't stem from my belief that the end is nigh im not one of those guys with a card board sign screaming repent, it stems from a belief that there are multiple eventualities which could lead to the destruction of the social, ecological, or technological structures that we rely on for our day to day life. I will now present you with some resources to show you the reality of a few of these potentialities. (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/10mar_stormwarning/) This is nasa telling you to prepare, yes national aeronautics and space administration nasa. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse) this is a wikipedia article on electromagnetic pulses, i suggest you read it in its entirety, when you couple this information with even a minor understanding in game theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) you will realize that this is a very legitimate concern. At least you would if you hadnt already resigned yourself to a position which god himself couldn't sway you from because if you did admit i was right you would look like a moron in front of your friends. And of course good old yellowstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera). Oh we better not leave out the possibility of meteor impact may i remind you it wouldn't be the first time, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_event). Pandemics are very real and happen on average once every 100 years, here was the last time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) roughly 100 years ago. I could go on for a while longer but as previously stated nothing could alter your perception and really even if i could, you arnt worth it, your death would be evolution at work.

Now this is a hard one for people to grasp but sanity has nothing to do with convention, i recall a man once said the world was spherical and not flat at that point in history he was possibly the only man on the entire planet that believed that, he could have easily been committed to a psyche ward but that wouldn't have changed the fact that he was correct. My belief is based on reason and has nothing to do with what anyone else believes. It is not i who is delusional for thinking that society can potentially break down it is you who is delusional for thinking the chances are so low that you shouldn't even do one second worth of research on the subject.  


 Now i believe that you think its possible too SOME extent, i dont think your very intelligent i must admit but i dont believe you are so dumb as to think its imposable, you just place the likelihood at maybe .01%-2% i too place the odds low maybe 10% with in my lifetime, that 10% however justifies preparedness in my mind because i love my wife and my children and im not going to gamble their safety even on a 1% risk in exchange for a nicer car or bigger tv, thats called responsibility, trust me i would have rather bought a motorcycle than emergency food supply that i will probably never use but i am a responsible adult not a naive child.   


 As for the comment about being able to kill hundreds of opponents, once again I do not consider it likely that even if an apocalypse did present its self that I would be able to successfully kill hundreds of looters, but why should I not prepare for the unlikely thats the point of buying this weapon to begin with, and furthermore why should I not want my children to be able to use it after I die or their friends if they die.  


 As for the bit about needing a microchip to breath or sleep I commend you, you are entirely correct, my   original statement as very short sighted and I feel pretty dumb for saying it, I thank you for bringing said shortsightedness to my attention. Now let rephrase my original statement so I can more clearly convey the intent behind my words. Food distribution requires microchips at several stages in the process from tracking inventory to placing and receiving orders, in a large emp event there would cease to be food on the grocery store shelves. The water grid is controlled by you guessed it microchips, they are present at nearly every stage in the filtration in distribution process, in a large emp event your tap would cease to produce water. Hospitals are run on nearly ever level by microchips, nearly every medical machine short of a stethoscope would cease to function properly in hospitals all across the country. Transportation, you guessed it your car has electronics in it which are necessary for function just watch the emp episode of future weapons he actually drives a car through and emp to test it. I think you get the point.


 You are 100% right as of now china does not have any interest in destroying us, I wont contest that, but neither does that in any way present an argument against my original statement. Oh and I dont know what makes you assume I can read Chinese, but I dont and even If I did whats the point in saying the same thing twice?


 About the final comment, I wasnt aware that this thread was pertaining to the intricacies of your sense of humor. Im sorry I have no real response to that because it contains no noteworthy information.


 To chris parker


 You say my entire question is based on delusional paranoia, it is not I who needs to defend myself it is you who needs to defend this statement. Why is it that I should not prepare for worst case scenarios? Maybe you believe that no scenario could lead to the need for a melee weapon, if this is the case let me know I can quickly rectify this delusion.


 On to the comment about me posting it on two separate forums, I did this because I thought posting my question in two separate forums would increase the likely hood of receiving the answer I was looking for. To me its comical that you cant understand this concept. Let me try to make a simpler analogy maybe that will help, do you think you are more likely to win the lottery if you buy one ticket or two, the answer is two. As for me being a troll, I dont consider myself to be one, maybe others do, but to me this post was entirely serious.  


 If I have no martial arts training what makes me think one weapon suggestion is a good one. That would require a reasonable argument backed by logic, my minimal ma training means I am not equipped with the skills to make a strong argument for or against a particular weapon, it doesnt mean I am unable to understand reason when someone else prevents me with a reasonable argument.


 And I spent 1 year 4 nights a week 2 hours each of those nights in Isshin Ryu karate class, I was 17 at the time and I am 21 now. I never belt tested because I didnt see any point in paying to test my abilities because testing them does not improve them and to me the purpose of karate class was to improve my abilities, so I simply guessed at what belt I thought I was. By near the end of that year I was invited into the advanced class everyone in that class was purple or above that is what I based my guess on. I dont consider that enough time spent for me to call myself a martial artist what do you think if everything I said in this paragraph was true would you consider me a martial artist?


 On one final note to both of you, even if I am crazy I dont think that would justify your rudeness, really guys didnt your parents teach you any manners. Yes this post is rude I know that but its only because im responding to such rude comments. When someone says something you disagree with dont just call them loony and delusional then move on, you should provide a series of verifiable facts which back up your case like I did, its like my dad always told me if you dont have anything intelligent to say, than dont say anything at all.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 21, 2010)

Okay I will be the first one to say it.  

*This thread is stupid! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


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## KenpoTex (Nov 21, 2010)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Okay I will be the first one to say it.
> 
> *This thread is stupid!
> 
> ...



but, entertaining... :ultracool


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## Tez3 (Nov 21, 2010)

Obviously nail clippers should be the weapon of choice. 

I wish people wouldn't denigrate sheep, up the road from me at a local farm, a ram killed someone. They quite often do, they can be quite nasty creatures. Never underestimate sheep. 

Oh and btw there's a rule here that says don't attack the poster, ABanzhof, as an adult with his own house paid off and about to be swamped by zombies I'm sure you can undertstand that. I think along with your list of food etc a book explaining how to write English would help you past the time between attacks. 
My transport doesn't need microchips, I have a horse and a bicycle..


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## bluewaveschool (Nov 21, 2010)

Zombies would eat your horse.

I think this guy and the mall ninja should get together and share ideas.


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## Whitebelt (Nov 21, 2010)

You stand no chance alone against the world. Join a community, meet like minded people (you won't find many here amongst us sheeple) and please look into the possibility of this nightmare future and the systems that are in place to protect you from the magic commies bombs.

If all else fails and the cursed hordes come a'knockin', get a steelworker to make you a guandao or a podao, probably good for about 2.5 DPM (decapitations per minute). That will afford you a few seconds of life against multiple attackers.


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## jks9199 (Nov 21, 2010)

Let me assume that you're on the more rational end of the scale of folks that are busily preparing for some amorphous doomsday fall of civilization.  In other words, your preparations are based in extreme, but rational, assessments of possibilities.

OK; you've laid in food supplies.  You've got some firearms, it seems, and ammo.  (Lay in more ammo.  Do you reload?  Do you have a healthy stock of rounds -- or a bullet mold -- and powder?  Do you know how to make black powder?  Do you know the effect loading and using black powder will have on the guns you have?  Have you had any TACTICAL shooting training?)  I'll assume you're making at least periodic visits to a firing range to practice.  Now you're trying to find some alternative weapons that don't rely on ammunition.

But you're assuming stronger/harder wood is better.  It's not... because that strength and hardness comes at the price of brittleness.   Not good for something taking impact, huh?  Instead of trying to find an unbreakable wood -- learn to craft shafts for your spear from woods available to you.

(Maybe learn to make a bow and arrow, as well...  Medieval reenactors like the SCA can help you there...)

And you're completely ignoring the absolute reality that if you haven't trained and practiced with it -- you will not be able to use it.

So... it certainly seems to me that your plans are still rooted in fantasy, not reality.  But, hey, you're apparently looking at spending some money, and that'll help the economy...

Cold Steel makes serviceable spears.  If you check some of the threads about swords, you'll see which brands consistently get decent marks.


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## Sukerkin (Nov 21, 2010)

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I'd like to ask people to ponder for a moment why it is that firearms became such prevalent weapons when, for quite an extensive period of history after their invention, they were seriously poor compared to the other weapons available.

Any ideas?

The problem with many of the other weapons invented and developed through mankinds bloody history is that they take a considerable amount of skill and training to know how to use them.  

Whilst it is unfair to characterise the difference with the old aphorism that "Any fool can pull a trigger", it is comparatively easy to aquire sufficient skill with a gun to use it with some effect.  

A sword on the other hand ...


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## oaktree (Nov 21, 2010)

> its very difficult for me to break this concept down simply enough for a sheep to understand, but ill do my best to bring it down to your level.


 
Sorry I am retarded. I lack the ability to comprehend things. Thank you for taking time out of your Doomsday preparation to explain it to this wee' simpleton.


> This whole issue doesn't stem from my belief that the end is nigh im not one of those guys with a card board sign screaming repent, it stems from a belief that there are multiple eventualities *which could* lead to the destruction of the social, ecological, or technological structures that we rely on for our day to day life.


 
Notice I underlined and put in bold this word: *Which could *. 
Zombies *could* take over the world but the chances of it happening are slim.But I guess if you put the drug in the water supply resulting in huge hysteria mixed with rats and animals with rabies biting people then maybe you can have a Zombie Apocalypse. I hope when it does happen they refer to me Oaktree on Martial talk as the orginial person who came up with it I can not wait to see my Wikipedia link about me and it.



> I will now present you with some resources to show you the reality of a few of these *potentialities.* (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news..._stormwarning/) This is nasa telling you to prepare, yes national aeronautics and space administration nasa. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse) this is a wikipedia article on electromagnetic pulses, i suggest you read it in its entirety, when you couple this information with even a minor understanding in game theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) you will realize that this is a very legitimate concern. At least you would if you hadnt already resigned yourself to a position which god himself couldn't sway you from because if you did admit i was right you would look like a moron in front of your friends.


 
See I underlined the word Potentialities and made it in Bold. Of course there *could be*
 a Doomsday type of event but the chances are slim of it happening in my lifetime so I don't worry. You most likely have a better chance at winning the lottery than waiting for it to occur. Now addressing your concerns of this maybe it is normal depending on the conversation. But going on a Martial art forum asking how to kill hundreds of people(thats your quote)in a Post Apocalyptical scenerio well guess what people are going to think 1.To much video games 2.to many movies 3.lost touch with reality

If you want people to take you seriously then the suggestion of saying:

_I found these articles and I find them interesting what do you think of the chances of this happening? _Or_  Hi guys I thought it would be fun to share some ideas on how to survive an apocalyptical scenerio._ 

See how it does not come off as so crazy?



> Now this is a hard one for people to grasp but sanity has nothing to do with convention


On the contrary, may I present why I come to that conclusion. I will only use your own words to illustrate that.


> I have a whole room full of emergency food supply, lots of seeds, ammo, and one of the nicest combat rifles money can buy





> least four important factors that i can think of to consider, the types of weapons my theoretical challengers will be likely to wield


 


> it will need to be able to kill hundreds of opponents before needing replacement


 


> i wont lie i signed up for the forum so i could ask THIS question and this question alone,





> i need the advice of martial artists at this particular juncture in my life


 
So you can see why and how I came to my conclusion.




> My belief is based on reason and has nothing to do with what anyone else believes. It is not i who is delusional for thinking that society can potentially break down it is you who is delusional for thinking the chances are so low that you shouldn't even do one second worth of research on the subject.


 I do not have the delusion that societies can break down we have seen it happen in the past. We have also seen Societies come together again. The delusion is locking yourself in a house looking thru a boarded window in preparing for such an event.
It would be real ironic if you were in your house sheltered from the outside world and a comet crushed you. The majority of people are not stocking up on ammo and food and preparing for the end of the world so your belief is not based on reason or logic it is based on a perception of fear of some event in the future that may or may not happen during your lifetime.



> Now i believe that you think its possible too SOME extent, i dont think your very intelligent i must admit but i dont believe you are so dumb as to think its imposable,


I am not very intelligent I am very stupid. I know I can never reach the potential of intelligence that you display on this forum. Doesn't a Sith deal in absolutes?



> you just place the likelihood at maybe .01%-2% i too place the odds low maybe 10% with in my lifetime, that 10% however justifies preparedness in my mind because i love my wife and my children and im not going to gamble their safety even on a 1% risk in exchange for a nicer car or bigger tv, thats called responsibility, trust me i would have rather bought a motorcycle than emergency food supply that i will probably never use but i am a responsible adult not a naive child.


 10%?!! All this because you think of a 10% chance?!!!! wow!!!!

You had money to buy a motorcycle but you thought buying food in the chance of 10% of a doomsday scenerio?! 



> As for the comment about being able to kill hundreds of opponents, once again I do not consider it likely that even if an apocalypse did present its self that I would be able to successfully kill hundreds of looters, but why should I not prepare for the unlikely thats the point of buying this weapon to begin with, and furthermore why should I not want my children to be able to use it after I die or their friends if they die.


  I can not think of a person who in H2H combat killing hundreds of people with his hands. But maybe you can it is your fantasy I guess you can do anything in it. 
Noone is saying not to learn how to use a gun or get certification for one or even use it to defend themselves. But your statement reads off as " Hey I need a gun to kill hundreds of people during the 10% chance there is a doomsday event."If you asked advice about specs and left all the Doomsday stuff out of it you would get a more mature response.



> As for the bit about needing a microchip to breath or sleep I commend you, you are entirely correct, my original statement as very short sighted and I feel pretty dumb for saying it, I thank you for bringing said shortsightedness to my attention.


If I am stupider than you and I make you feel dumb does that make you dumber than me?
 You don't have to answer it is a rhetoric question and merely in jest.

I agree most things in a Westernized world use computers. However, in other countries they do not use computers at all. In some areas people get up at dawn go fishing or farm and live their life off the land. Having Westernized countries crumbled does not impact their simple humble life.



> You are 100% right as of now china does not have any interest in destroying us, I wont contest that, but neither does that in any way present an argument against my original statement. Oh and I dont know what makes you assume I can read Chinese, but I dont and even If I did whats the point in saying the same thing twice?


 I asked people from China what they thought about your statement. That was their answer. I wanted to give you what Chinese people think in their native language to show you that the average Chinese is not hostile towards Americans and a lot of them are very interested in learning English.

I find this more entertaining than anything so I do not take this serious at all.
 It reminds me of the time I played pool against a Crackhead entertaining but wining sure doesn't feel like an accomplishment.


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## baron (Nov 21, 2010)

Have you considered that if something happens you might not be home or able to get home.  Then your weapons and supplies would be useless.  What ever weapon you might be using remember it's going fail at some time.  So one should train to use what ever he or she finds at hand.  I like a tightly rolled up magazine my self.  Who is afraid of paper, but it sure can do damage and get you out of a jam.  So when I stroll down the street at night I carry a magazine or book just in case.

By the way I also trained in Isshin Ryu but only went to Green Belt.  What rank would a Purple Belt be?  We had white, yellow, orange, green, brown, and black.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 21, 2010)

can someone tell me how to do the quote thing where you put the relevant quotation in a blue box, with out knowing how to do this it ends up becoming immensely confusing trying to coherently respond to something as long as oak trees comment


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## jks9199 (Nov 21, 2010)

ABanzhof said:


> can someone tell me how to do the quote thing  where you put the relevant quotation in a blue box, with out knowing how  to do this it ends up becoming immensely confusing trying to coherently  respond to something as long as oak trees comment


There are a few different ways.  If you're using the Quick Reply button, simply make sure the box "Quote message in reply?" is checked.  On either the quick reply or a full reply using the "Quote" button in the thread, you can also use the button that looks like a word balloon to insert the commands for quote, and then place the text you desire to quote between them.  IN vBulletin, commands are placed in square brackets like [this].  You can also use the Multi-Quote function by clicking the button in each post you want to quote that shows a quotation mark and a plus sign (or minus sign to turn it off), then click the Quote button on the last one you want to quote.


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## ABanzhof (Nov 21, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> Testing1


 Testing 2 





jks9199 said:


> Testing3


 Testing 4


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## ABanzhof (Nov 21, 2010)

nooooo, im sorry oaktree i prepared another whole essay for you then went to press backspace and lost all of it because i my cursor wasn't in the box. Im not going to write all that again so im just going to say a few things. 

Follow up on these phenomena, look at each of them and their historical rate of occurrence examine their impact, PULL OUT THE CALCULATOR. At least make yourself aware of this one statistic, pandemics occur once every hundred years roughly, the last one was in 1918 and it claimed the lives of between 50 and 100 million people, the population of the earth in 1918 was much lower than it is today, were talking at least 20% of the planets population gone over night. Stop relieing on popular opinion and actually look at the numbers, if you do this you will find yourself on my side of the argument and you dont have to respond to this and you dont have to tell any of your friends you changed your opinion. 

Also really stop and think to your self how much research have you actually done on phenomena like, natural emps, man made emps, supervolcanoes, pandemics and metior impacts, how much real research do you think those people have done who expressed the opinion that its as likely as winning the lottery, because ive done quite a bit and i suspect you and those others youve met have done little to none, yet you argue as if you are standing on some intellectual high ground next to me. Dont get me wrong its not like im putting every dollar i own into it either, ill probably be spending 1thousand more dollars than im totally done and moving on to saving up my money for nice land out in the woods with modest sturdy little house on it. 

I know its hard to question conventional wisdom but the more real research you do the more you will realize that conventional wisdom isnt sometimes wrong, its usually wrong.

also im sorry i said i hope you die, i was just frustrated when i said that, its not your fault that every experience youve had relating to the subject has been so misleading, people are products of their environment, my ability to question the status quo comes from some great influences i had in my childhood, not everyone is so lucky and they shouldn't be killed because of bad luck


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## oaktree (Nov 21, 2010)

> also im sorry i* said i hope you die*, i was just frustrated when i said that, its not your fault that every experience youve had relating to the subject has been so misleading, people are products of their environment, my ability to question the status quo comes from some great influences i had in my childhood, not everyone is so lucky and they shouldn't be killed because of bad luck


 
I was going to respond to you in a rational manner but dude, You said you hope I die???
I mean this in the most polite professional way. Please seek a Psychologist or Mental help provider.


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## bluewaveschool (Nov 21, 2010)

OP makes Glenn Beck look sane.


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## jks9199 (Nov 21, 2010)

ABanzhof said:


> nooooo, im sorry oaktree i prepared another whole essay for you then went to press backspace and lost all of it because i my cursor wasn't in the box. Im not going to write all that again so im just going to say a few things.
> 
> Follow up on these phenomena, look at each of them and their historical rate of occurrence examine their impact, PULL OUT THE CALCULATOR. At least make yourself aware of this one statistic, pandemics occur once every hundred years roughly, the last one was in 1918 and it claimed the lives of between 50 and 100 million people, the population of the earth in 1918 was much lower than it is today, were talking at least 20% of the planets population gone over night. Stop relieing on popular opinion and actually look at the numbers, if you do this you will find yourself on my side of the argument and you dont have to respond to this and you dont have to tell any of your friends you changed your opinion.
> 
> ...


Kid -- you're, by your own statement, all of 21 years old.  Let me suggest that several of the people commenting here may well have underwear older than that.

I'm going to strongly suggest that you continue your research, and that you perhaps seek some professional input into your assessments and your own responses to things.  You're investing significant energy, time, and resources into some fairly unlikely events.  Have you already prepared for the more likely possibilities?  For example, are you prepared to lose your job?  Have you set aside enough money to weather several months of unemployment?  At the moment, that seems much more likely than any doomsday/zombie apocalypse...


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## Tez3 (Nov 22, 2010)

Sukerkin said:


> At the risk of hijacking the thread, I'd like to ask people to ponder for a moment why it is that firearms became such prevalent weapons when, for quite an extensive period of history after their invention, they were seriously poor compared to the other weapons available.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> ...


 
Thank goodness the British Forces still have swords and lances! And know how to use them! Female RAF officers even have special swords made for them, a little shorter than the mens. We aren't reliant on motor vehicles either having thousands of horses both in the military and those owned by the officers and regiments. We even still have cannons that can fire cannonballs!


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## ABanzhof (Nov 22, 2010)

to jks

yes the doomsday preparation covers the event of unemployment because 90% of your cost when you lose your job is food, and since i own my own house and have no debts at all my obligations are extremely limited. I assure you i am a great deal more rational than you guys seem to think, of course i prepared for the likely before the unlikely, and yes i do have enough money tucked away to handle the costs associated with living in the modern world with the exclusion of food and shelter i.e. water, electricity, medical care, property taxes. Everyone assumes im irrational because i came to this martial arts forum to discuss a very specific aspect of my survival plan and admittedly if that was the fist or the only step i had taken that would be pretty damn irrational. you guys need to stop making so many assumptions about be simply because i didnt provide you with my entire life story, YOU DONT KNOW ME.

And to everyone out there who thinks im scared or worried about this eventuality your totally wrong, if i didnt have a wife and child on the way i woulnt care at all about survival preparation, i would be living day to day finding fun ways to spend my money and when/if the day came when society broke down i would just accept my death as part of life. Im simply doing my job as a father to take steps to insure the safety of my family, its my job, its my responciability, and to do otherwise, to spend my money selfishly at this point in my life would be immoral.


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## Cirdan (Nov 22, 2010)

I would recomend you take at least one level as cleric and consider the extra turning feat.
If you have enough experience points to level up you might be able to create holy water and cast conjure food & water spells. Invaluable in any doomsday setting.

Go with a Mace of Disruption for a weapon if you can get one. And a suit of +5 platemail.


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## Chris Parker (Nov 22, 2010)

Right. This is going to be giant, no-one really needs to go through this but ABanzhof, really. I'm just kinda in this mood, so bear with me, everyone else. Thanks.

ABanzhof. Listen up. If you choose to disagree, I suggest you also choose to leave, as there will be nothing productive out of you engaging with us at all. Frankly, you are not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> So I have just become an adult and finished paying off my first house now the next important step for me is preparing for disaster.


 
Age alone does not make you an adult. And the type of "preparing for disaster" that would be the next step would be having a plan in case of fire, or flood, depending on where you live, not the insane paranoia you come up with here.



ABanzhof said:


> I have a whole room full of emergency food supply, lots of seeds, ammo, and one of the nicest combat rifles money can buy.


 
What training do you have with the "nicest combat rifle money can buy". If it's none, sell the damn thing, and get some. Frankly, I hope it's none, actually. I don't like the idea that you were once serving in the military, a sense of reality is definately prefered there.



ABanzhof said:


> I thought i was totally prepared until last night when i was watching the movie "the road."


 
Really? You thought you were totally prepared until you watched a movie? What would have happened if you watched Alien instead? How about The Godfather? Would you have worried everytime someone mentioned "the family"?

The very fact that that is what set this off shows a lack of any real imagination and ability to differentiate between paranoid fantasies and reality. Psychologically speaking, you have a lot of issues.



ABanzhof said:


> While watching i came to the startling realization that i overlooked something big, in a post apocalyptic situation ammo conservation is a must as well as having the ability to still fight when 99% of the worlds ammunition has already been expended, what i need is a melee weapon that will give me a competitive edge in melee combat situations.


 
No. It isn't. You're preparing for a never-gonna-happen situation. And frankly, even if it did happen, this is far from the biggest issue you'd face, son. But I'm not going to venture anything here, as I said, you are not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> Now i must admit i have some martial arts experience but little to no experience with weapons, this is why i need the help of seasoned ma practitioners in narrowing down the myriad of melee weapon choices available to me.


 
First thing we say to anyone asking about weapons is to get an instructor. But for you, don't. I don't want to inflict you on any poor unsuspecting instructor, especially in the types of things you're asking about (which, frankly, won't do you any good anyway).



ABanzhof said:


> My first question is what type of of weapon should I chose.


 
None. 



ABanzhof said:


> My second question is what brand/model to get for a particular weapon type with a 600 dollar price limit though this is somewhat subject to reconsideration if i really need to spend an extra couple hundred for a ridiculous quality difference.


 
This is your biggest priority, you feel that this is done purely for the benefit and protection of your self and family, and you're giving yourself a budget? And only $600? Really, the answer is "NONE!"



ABanzhof said:


> Before you make a suggestion there are at least four important factors that i can think of to consider, the types of weapons my theoretical challengers will be likely to wield i.e. metal pipes, machetes, knives and baseball bats spiked or otherwise,


 
Er, really? Who says they don't have guns with more ammo than you thought? Just because you ran out first doesn't mean they're going to limit their attack choices.... Can you see how this is nothing but a delusional fantasy here?



ABanzhof said:


> the learning curve as i will be spending little to no time practicing before the need arises,


 
Right, so you're going to get this weapon now, and keep it aside, not train with it to be able to use it, and expect to just be able to pick it up and be effective if something happens in 10, 20, 50 years time? Really, do you have any sense of reality at all?



ABanzhof said:


> the durability as it will need to be able to kill hundreds of opponents before needing replacement,


 
I don't really know how to answer this one.... er, what? Frankly, you'd be lucky to get through one, and even then I don't think you understand the reality of what you're asking. But reality doesn't seem to be your strong suit, is it?



ABanzhof said:


> and of course a little info on me the wielder, i am a 6ft tall 200lb male.


 
Right. So? Doesn't really mean anything, you're still unwilling to look at any form of reality, so I don't think that matters at all.



ABanzhof said:


> In my mind ive narrowed it down to spear or rapier/dagger combo, but this is certainly subject to change because as stated earlier i have little experience in this field, a well reasoned argument will almost surely alter my perception.


 
Rapier/Dagger combo, you're dead. Spear, you're dead. Just quicker with the rapier/dagger combo, really, especially as you're not willing to train with any of the weapons you choose. But really, don't get anything, you're not suited to be near anything more dangerous than a soft room and jacket with very long sleeves.



ABanzhof said:


> Its the learning curve issue that made the spear stick out in my mind. It seems to me that if two complete newbies were pitted against each-other with their choice of melee weapons a spear would be the best choice as neither would be capable of blocking effectively meaning the one with the longest range wins almost every time.


 
With no experience, what are you basing that on? Personally, I love spear, train it a fair bit, but you have no idea of what it actually entails. Nor what actual combat is all about, either, it must be said.



ABanzhof said:


> Also i have been thinking that since there is little to no incentive for a spear maker to put the level of quality into is product necessary for it to be a practical tool for real life combat situations, and since military's all around the world use daggers maybe my best option is to modify a rigorously tested dagger into a spear.


 
No, it isn't. I'm not going into why, as you are not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> On one final note, are their spears with metal shafts instead of wood. It seems imperative for the shaft to be able to block blades with out the need for immediate repair.


 
Blocking doesn't happen anywhere near as much as you seem to think, despite where you got your ideas from, what you're talking about is not the movies. So your fundamental ideas are, frankly, delusions. No surprise, really.



ABanzhof said:


> Maybe what i need to do is have a shaft machined for me with a titanium core for the light weight and a steel outer layer for blocking bladed attacks then fasten a dagger to the end somehow but i really don't know how to go about making something as customized as this, maybe someone else does?


 
I hope if they do, they don't answer you. You are not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> Anyway thanks in advance for your time nd before you ask "is this guy serious" yes I am VERY serious.


 
I'll return to this, but frankly it's the very core of what this is about.



ABanzhof said:


> why should one not take insuring the safety of their family and loved ones seriously? are you so naive as to think that the use of deadly force is never warranted? or that circumstances which would warrant it never arise?


 
Ensuring the safety of loved ones is fantastic. Their safety encompasses many things, though, and one of the various things that I like to protect my loved ones from is irrational fears and crazy theories with little basis whatsoever. As for deadly force, really, son? Do you have any idea who you are talking to here? There are quite a number of Lw Enforcement personel here, as well as current and ex-military, I believe they have a far better idea than you about when lethal force is warranted. You I wouldn't trust to determine when a harsh word is out of place.



ABanzhof said:


> Or maybe you think that modern society is totally secure and nothing could ever cause it to break down.


 
The way you're describing things is so remote a possibility that there is no rational reason to go on the way you are. Don't think that our not going along with your over-blown doomsday scenarios is us having blind faith in the goodness of humanity, and the strength of the Western World, it's not. It's us having a sense of reality and perspective, which you are lacking rather desperately.



ABanzhof said:


> If this is the case may i remind you that over 20 countries on the planet have weapons that are capable of destroying every microchip in the united states with a single blast.


 


ABanzhof said:


> One of these countries being china, china who ownes a huge portion of our national debt, and the only way the united states can currently make its minimum interest payments is to borrow more money thus increasing said interest payments with each passing day, and lets face it china is really starting to get pissed at us for continually debasing our own currency in order to lessen our obligation to them, and rightfully so! they lend us trillions of dollars we spend it then print so much money out of thin air that when we turn around to repay our debt the dollar is worth a quarter of what it was when they lent it to us meaning we stole 3/4 of the money they lent us.


 
See, this is the type of carzy theory with no basis that I was talking about. Now I need to ensure my loved ones don't see this thread.... gotta protect them, you see!



ABanzhof said:


> Stop for a moment and contemplate just what aspects of your life which are essential to your survival require microchips somewhere in the process, ill give you a hint, all of them.


 
Oaktree already dealt with this quite nicely, although I do want to ask you, if our entire existence is dependant on microchips, how did we survive long enough to develop them?



ABanzhof said:


> If that isnt enough of a wake up call the sun naturally produces solar flares which release emps powerful enough to destroy every microchip on 50% of the planet roughly every 50 years, and guess what, its been 50 years since the last one.


 
Again, if our lives are dependant on these microchips, and the sun sends out an EMP-burst once every 50 years, how did we get through the last one? You're listening to the crackpot end of the scientific community, you know....



ABanzhof said:


> You say i sound like a video game addict, i say you sound like a main stream media addict.


 
Video game, or some other such form of unreality, yeah. I'd actually say that you are the definition of gullible, you cannot resist an idea from outside unless it conflicts with another previous idea. So when you got this ridiculous fantasy going, everyone here telling you it's the textbook definition of delusional paranoia gets resisted as it challenges the fantasy you've built up. But anything that supports it (or can be twisted to) is eagerly taken on board. 

See a psychiatrist. Now.



ABanzhof said:


> so i think ive found my solution.


 
I really hope not. Your plan is not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> I dont trust the quality of spears on the market today because there is no need for a spear to be a reliable weapon for real life combat because such a situation never arises and so what incentive would any company have to produce such a product but daggers on the other hand are used by militaries all around the world.


 
Oh, dear lord, you don't trust the quality of spears available today? Oh, dear, well that's just not good, is it? You do realise that there is a reason there are no suppliers making weapons for the apocalypse? And you do realise that although daggers are part of the basic equipment, but that doesn't mean that they are used as spears, or indeed even ideally for combat? They have guns for such things, the daggers are utilitary in use, and a last resort as a weapon, I feel.



ABanzhof said:


> This dagger in perticular is used by the united kingdom special forces (http://www.blackhawk.com/product/United-Kingdom-Special-Forces,1244,35.htm) so you can be sure that it is unquestionably durable and reliable.


 
No, you can be sure that it meets their needs, which don't include surviving an impending although imaginary end-of-the-world scenario.



ABanzhof said:


> This is the hardest wood on the planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_vitae). This website sells lignum vitae according to custom specifications (http://www.lignum-vitae.com/). So i have a new question to pose, can anyone see any reason why i shouldnt mount the uk-sfk on the end of a 7 ft lignum vitae pole and call it the worlds most practical real life combat spear? maybe balancing would be an issue? or the weight would just be totally unmanageable?


 
Oh, many reasons, but I'm not going into that here, as, as I have said, you are not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> to oaktree


 
Okay, this was to Oaktree, and he replied quite well, I felt, just a few things I'd like to add for completeness sake. Oh, but well done on discovering paragraphs, by the way.



ABanzhof said:


> its very difficult for me to break this concept down simply enough for a sheep to understand, but ill do my best to bring it down to your level.


 
Careful, son, your intelligence is far from proven here. So far all I have seen is an ability to read some articles and have an alarmist responce. Not really intelligent, there, actually, despite the articles you read being written by rather intelligent people.



ABanzhof said:


> This whole issue doesn't stem from my belief that the end is nigh im not one of those guys with a card board sign screaming repent, it stems from a belief that there are multiple eventualities which could lead to the destruction of the social, ecological, or technological structures that we rely on for our day to day life.


 
You don't come across as far from it, frankly.



ABanzhof said:


> I will now present you with some resources to show you the reality of a few of these potentialities. (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/10mar_stormwarning/) This is nasa telling you to prepare, yes national aeronautics and space administration nasa.


 
No, actually it's not. It's an article by a NASA scientist about the possibility of some interferance of a solar event happening at some point. It's not alarmist to the degree you are taking it. By going through linked articles, and doing a tiny bit of research myself, the overall consensus seems to be "well, if a major event does occur, it could happen in the next few years, or decades, or longer, and may have no effect, or interfere with some major electrical systems, or possibly not. But for it to have that effect, it would need to be incredibly powerful, and be aimed straight at the Earth, without any other planets or other celestial bodies getting in the way, and so on". So, uh, no. Fail on this one for rational fear.



ABanzhof said:


> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse) this is a wikipedia article on electromagnetic pulses, i suggest you read it in its entirety, when you couple this information with even a minor understanding in game theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) you will realize that this is a very legitimate concern.


 
Game theory? Applied Mathematics? Really, this is a whole bunch of high-end concepts that you appear to have missed the underlying points of entirely, and simply skewed it to suit your paranoid concepts. Not a legitimate concern, from anything I've seen.



ABanzhof said:


> At least you would if you hadnt already resigned yourself to a position which god himself couldn't sway you from because if you did admit i was right you would look like a moron in front of your friends. And of course good old yellowstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera). Oh we better not leave out the possibility of meteor impact may i remind you it wouldn't be the first time, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_event). Pandemics are very real and happen on average once every 100 years, here was the last time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic) roughly 100 years ago. I could go on for a while longer but as previously stated nothing could alter your perception and really even if i could, you arnt worth it, your death would be evolution at work.


 
And all of these pandemics every 100 years resulted in the breakdown of society to the point where people started clubbing each others heads in? And you live near Yellowstone? Asteroids? Hmm, no, this is completely rational.... Yes, asteroids are constantly being mentioned, but the reality is that the odds are still incredibly low.



ABanzhof said:


> Now this is a hard one for people to grasp but sanity has nothing to do with convention, i recall a man once said the world was spherical and not flat at that point in history he was possibly the only man on the entire planet that believed that, he could have easily been committed to a psyche ward but that wouldn't have changed the fact that he was correct. My belief is based on reason and has nothing to do with what anyone else believes. It is not i who is delusional for thinking that society can potentially break down it is you who is delusional for thinking the chances are so low that you shouldn't even do one second worth of research on the subject.


 
No, but sanity does have something to do with your ability to handle reality and interact with it. As to the concept of the Earth being round, well, you like links, so.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060815201048AAsSEbs. Nice try, though. Oh, and the major difference is that the concept of the earth being curved/round could be, and was proven, by Erastosthenes in the third century BC.

Oh, and you're delusional for a variety of things that I'm seeing here, so you know. Including this post.



ABanzhof said:


> Now i believe that you think its possible too SOME extent, i dont think your very intelligent i must admit but i dont believe you are so dumb as to think its imposable, you just place the likelihood at maybe .01%-2% i too place the odds low maybe 10% with in my lifetime, that 10% however justifies preparedness in my mind because i love my wife and my children and im not going to gamble their safety even on a 1% risk in exchange for a nicer car or bigger tv, thats called responsibility, trust me i would have rather bought a motorcycle than emergency food supply that i will probably never use but i am a responsible adult not a naive child.


 
(Cheap shot here) Well, he's probably at least intelligent enough to spell "impossible" correctly....

And again, no, that's not called responsibility, it's called paranoia. You are not a responsible adult, you are a damaged infant (psychologically speaking). 



ABanzhof said:


> As for the comment about being able to kill hundreds of opponents, once again I do not consider it likely that even if an apocalypse did present its self that I would be able to successfully kill hundreds of looters, but why should I not prepare for the unlikely thats the point of buying this weapon to begin with, and furthermore why should I not want my children to be able to use it after I die or their friends if they die.


 
DO NOT BUY ANY WEAPON! You have no training in it, you have no understanding of the practicalities of it, and frankly, you are not to be encouraged! All this thought of death is not healthy!



ABanzhof said:


> As for the bit about needing a microchip to breath or sleep I commend you, you are entirely correct, my original statement as very short sighted and I feel pretty dumb for saying it, I thank you for bringing said shortsightedness to my attention. Now let rephrase my original statement so I can more clearly convey the intent behind my words. Food distribution requires microchips at several stages in the process from tracking inventory to placing and receiving orders, in a large emp event there would cease to be food on the grocery store shelves. The water grid is controlled by you guessed it microchips, they are present at nearly every stage in the filtration in distribution process, in a large emp event your tap would cease to produce water. Hospitals are run on nearly ever level by microchips, nearly every medical machine short of a stethoscope would cease to function properly in hospitals all across the country. Transportation, you guessed it your car has electronics in it which are necessary for function just watch the emp episode of future weapons he actually drives a car through and emp to test it. I think you get the point.


 
So? If they are taken out, that's why people are suggesting hunting and survival skills over this frankly insane idea you are proposing here.



ABanzhof said:


> You are 100% right as of now china does not have any interest in destroying us, I wont contest that, but neither does that in any way present an argument against my original statement. Oh and I dont know what makes you assume I can read Chinese, but I dont and even If I did whats the point in saying the same thing twice?


 
Hmm, your argument (see above in this very post, in your quote, nothing is omitted or changed here you may notice....) was that the Chinese wanted to destroy America, as they were "pissed off" over the debt, what you construed as cheating the debt by driving down the value of the currency.... and when Oaktree demonstrated that that was not the feeling of the Chinese, you now say that that doesn't invalidate your argument? Can you not see how out of touch with reality you are there? 



ABanzhof said:


> About the final comment, I wasnt aware that this thread was pertaining to the intricacies of your sense of humor. Im sorry I have no real response to that because it contains no noteworthy information.


 
Yes, it does. It informs you that your entire approach is considered laughable by other people in that you have no real grasp of reality. That's information that you really should take on board, although that would go against every piece of evidence you have given us (here and on the other forum, you do realise that they're laughing there as well? They're not being more polite than we are, they're just amusing themselves whereas we are treating you seriously, and seeing what you are posting, then responding in the best way for you to get the help you so desperately need. And that requires a bit more harshness, frankly, nothing else would stand a chance).



ABanzhof said:


> To chris parker


 
Oh, good. My turn.



ABanzhof said:


> You say my entire question is based on delusional paranoia, it is not I who needs to defend myself it is you who needs to defend this statement. Why is it that I should not prepare for worst case scenarios? Maybe you believe that no scenario could lead to the need for a melee weapon, if this is the case let me know I can quickly rectify this delusion.


 
I need to defend my call of you being a delusional paranoid individual? Okay... uh, see above!

Oh, and not that no scenario could lead to it, just that no rational scenario leads that way. Only people with fractured concepts of reality could really argue with that, you know. 



ABanzhof said:


> On to the comment about me posting it on two separate forums, I did this because I thought posting my question in two separate forums would increase the likely hood of receiving the answer I was looking for. To me its comical that you cant understand this concept. Let me try to make a simpler analogy maybe that will help, do you think you are more likely to win the lottery if you buy one ticket or two, the answer is two. As for me being a troll, I dont consider myself to be one, maybe others do, but to me this post was entirely serious.


 
The fact that you consider this serious is what has me worried. Again, I'll deal with that at the end, as it's the crux of this entire thing.

My comment on posting on two threads was in response to you stating that you couldn't think of anywhere else to turn.... obviously you had!



ABanzhof said:


> If I have no martial arts training what makes me think one weapon suggestion is a good one. That would require a reasonable argument backed by logic, my minimal ma training means I am not equipped with the skills to make a strong argument for or against a particular weapon, it doesnt mean I am unable to understand reason when someone else prevents me with a reasonable argument.


 
No, it means that you have no experience to understand why something would be recommended or not, let alone how to use the damn thing. But, again, you are not to be encouraged. Oh, and logic really doesn't have as big a place in this field as you think, so forget that as an approach. But really, you are not to be encouraged. 



ABanzhof said:


> And I spent 1 year 4 nights a week 2 hours each of those nights in Isshin Ryu karate class, I was 17 at the time and I am 21 now. I never belt tested because I didnt see any point in paying to test my abilities because testing them does not improve them and to me the purpose of karate class was to improve my abilities, so I simply guessed at what belt I thought I was. By near the end of that year I was invited into the advanced class everyone in that class was purple or above that is what I based my guess on. I dont consider that enough time spent for me to call myself a martial artist what do you think if everything I said in this paragraph was true would you consider me a martial artist?


 
I'm sorry, you "guessed" at what belt you should be?!? And what do you mean "if everything I said in this paragraph were true".... are you trying to tell us that it's a lie?

Frankly, you come across as more of a lunatic, to be blunt. 



ABanzhof said:


> On one final note to both of you, even if I am crazy I dont think that would justify your rudeness, really guys didnt your parents teach you any manners. Yes this post is rude I know that but its only because im responding to such rude comments. When someone says something you disagree with dont just call them loony and delusional then move on, you should provide a series of verifiable facts which back up your case like I did, its like my dad always told me if you dont have anything intelligent to say, than dont say anything at all.


 
And yet you continue to post....

Yes, I was taught to be polite, I've been fighting against that for a while now, thanks! Getting pretty good at it, too. For the record, though, we're not disagreeing with you, you are presenting a delusional concept framed in paranoid settings, so we're saying that you are coming across as delusional and paranoid. Not that weapons are bad (although in your case, they are. You are not to be encouraged), or even a bad idea (but they are for you). You, by the way, have not presented verifiable facts, you have presented some theories that are far from universally accepted or supported, and a small amount of research shows that. So you fail your own criteria there, so you know.



ABanzhof said:


> nooooo, im sorry oaktree i prepared another whole essay for you then went to press backspace and lost all of it because i my cursor wasn't in the box. Im not going to write all that again so im just going to say a few things.


 
Fine.



ABanzhof said:


> Follow up on these phenomena, look at each of them and their historical rate of occurrence examine their impact, PULL OUT THE CALCULATOR.


 
Good, now look at the number of people killed by cars daily, pull out a calculator, and I dare you to cross the road..... 



ABanzhof said:


> At least make yourself aware of this one statistic, pandemics occur once every hundred years roughly, the last one was in 1918 and it claimed the lives of between 50 and 100 million people, the population of the earth in 1918 was much lower than it is today, were talking at least 20% of the planets population gone over night.


 
Overnight? Really? Not quite sure about that, there. And your figures seem a little out as well, I'm not thinking it's quite that high. Besides, the Black Death took about 1/3 of Europe, and it didn't turn into a random free-for-all with everyone stocking up on crossbow bolts.... and they had a fair amount of melee weapons to choose from as well! Again, you're failing the reality test.



ABanzhof said:


> Stop relieing on popular opinion and actually look at the numbers, if you do this you will find yourself on my side of the argument and you dont have to respond to this and you dont have to tell any of your friends you changed your opinion.


 
Okay, I'll respond. No, I'm not on your side. I still think you're apt to only see what supports your extreme delusional paranoid point of view, and ignore or change anything that doesn't. I could show you an article on the rate of extinction of animals, and you will take that as an indication that the end is nigh, stretching it to breaking point to have it fit your concepts. After all, that is the pattern you are demonstrating here, and the extreme "You will see it my way" attitude simply supports that.



ABanzhof said:


> Also really stop and think to your self how much research have you actually done on phenomena like, natural emps, man made emps, supervolcanoes, pandemics and metior impacts, how much real research do you think those people have done who expressed the opinion that its as likely as winning the lottery, because ive done quite a bit and i suspect you and those others youve met have done little to none, yet you argue as if you are standing on some intellectual high ground next to me.


 
Er, a lot of those people expressing the belief that it's about as likely as winning the lottery are the scientists doing the research, son. They are presenting a possibility, but the most common tag-line is "of course, it's not that likely to actually happen. It could, but it's doubtful".



ABanzhof said:


> Dont get me wrong its not like im putting every dollar i own into it either, ill probably be spending 1thousand more dollars than im totally done and moving on to saving up my money for nice land out in the woods with modest sturdy little house on it.


 
Look to the house. Forget this ridiculous idea. It is not to be encouraged.



ABanzhof said:


> I know its hard to question conventional wisdom but the more real research you do the more you will realize that conventional wisdom isnt sometimes wrong, its usually wrong.


 
You seem to be doing a bang-up job of it, though. 

Really, questioning is good. But the extreme you are going to is not "questioning", it's looking for support for your delusions.



ABanzhof said:


> also im sorry i said i hope you die, i was just frustrated when i said that, its not your fault that every experience youve had relating to the subject has been so misleading, people are products of their environment, my ability to question the status quo comes from some great influences i had in my childhood, not everyone is so lucky and they shouldn't be killed because of bad luck


 
Er, think that may have been in your "lost" post there. And, son, you are not coming across as someone particularly "lucky", you are coming across as someone unable to differentiate between a hypothetical possibility and reality. You, frankly, have no rational filter. And that alone certifies you as delusional, the paranoia is just the way you are expressing that.



ABanzhof said:


> to jks


 
Just for completion, I'm going to go through this one as well.



ABanzhof said:


> yes the doomsday preparation covers the event of unemployment because 90% of your cost when you lose your job is food, and since i own my own house and have no debts at all my obligations are extremely limited.


 
So it's good that you've doubled up in your preparations?



ABanzhof said:


> I assure you i am a great deal more rational than you guys seem to think, of course i prepared for the likely before the unlikely, and yes i do have enough money tucked away to handle the costs associated with living in the modern world with the exclusion of food and shelter i.e. water, electricity, medical care, property taxes.


 
Hmm, this isn't why we don't think you're rational, you know.



ABanzhof said:


> Everyone assumes im irrational because i came to this martial arts forum to discuss a very specific aspect of my survival plan and admittedly if that was the fist or the only step i had taken that would be pretty damn irrational. you guys need to stop making so many assumptions about be simply because i didnt provide you with my entire life story, YOU DONT KNOW ME.


 
No, we assume you're irrational because every post you've made supports that idea, your defences fit that pattern, and so on. And no, we don't know you, except by the way you present yourself here. And that shows us someone who has an inability to discern reality from fantasy. So far you have done nothing to disprove this, and in fact have simply supported it again and again. And the fact that you can't see that is simply more evidence of that, frankly.



ABanzhof said:


> And to everyone out there who thinks im scared or worried about this eventuality your totally wrong, if i didnt have a wife and child on the way i woulnt care at all about survival preparation, i would be living day to day finding fun ways to spend my money and when/if the day came when society broke down i would just accept my death as part of life. Im simply doing my job as a father to take steps to insure the safety of my family, its my job, its my responciability, and to do otherwise, to spend my money selfishly at this point in my life would be immoral.


 
Nope, don't think you're scared or worried, just overly concerned (read that as "thinking about", rather than "worried", so you don't get too confused by my choice of language) with what is simply a non-event in even the minds of the people you are getting the information from. Really, follow the plan that you lay out if you didn't have a wife. Have fun, spend on frivilous things, enjoy yourself. It is far better than anything you have presented here. Your ideas are not to be encouraged.

Okay, now to the end of this, and the crux of the matter. This is why we have been taking you as delusional from the get-go. It's the title of the thread itself:

*a serious question of real life application*

If this is a serious question, then you are delusional. If you think that this has anything to do with real life, you are delusional. If you think that this has any real life application, you are delusional. If you think this paranoid scenario you present in various forms here justifies this thread as a serious question, and has any real life application, you are paranoid, and delusional. You have presented this evidence yourself, before you ask for proof. If you can't see it, I highly recommend that you get off the forums, and see a psychiatrist or psychologist. You desperately need it.

Oh, and this wasn't rude, by the way, just a little blunt. You may want to recognise the difference.

To everyone else who may have read through this, well done! You have more patience than I do, and I wrote the thing!


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## Grenadier (Nov 22, 2010)

*Moderator's note:
*

This forum is for the discussion of weapons used in the martial arts, and not for doomsday scenarios.  

This thread is locked, pending review.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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