# Grappling with someone who is gay



## Kempojujutsu (Jul 15, 2002)

This is not a gay bash thread, but how would you act if someone came in wanted to grapple and said maybe afterwards he was gay. Would you want to grapple with them again, or would you find a reason not to grapple with them.
Bob  :asian:


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## Kirk (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu _
> 
> *This is not a gay bash thread, but how would you act if someone came in wanted to grapple and said maybe afterwards he was gay. Would you want to grapple with them again, or would you find a reason not to grapple with them.
> Bob  :asian: *



Are you grappling with an American?  Does this American have
the same rights as you?  Other than what goes on in his/her
bedroom, is he/she really any different than you?  What kind of
thoughts go through your head when grappling a woman that
you find attractive?  Do you think this woman would be thinking
the same thoughts YOU would be thinking while wrestling a gay
person of the same sex as you?  Is it possible that you might one
day have to fight a gay person in the street?  Is it possible that
by you grappling a gay person, that they learned a little bit more
than they did before they grappled you, and therefore could 
defend themselves against an unitiated attack?  Possibly a life
saving attack?  Is it possible that the gay person you grappled
with might end up saving the life of someone you know and love?
Maybe a family member?


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## Hollywood1340 (Jul 15, 2002)

Kiddies,
 Well said Kirk! Personaly I would consider this a non issue. I'm here to train the martial arts. That is all.


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## hand2handCombat (Jul 15, 2002)

i think he just meant to ask how you would feel. i personally would fell akward and wouldnt want to. 

kenpojujitsu even said it wasnt a gay bash, so why bring up those quiestions about being equal and american and all??


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## Kirk (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hand2handCombat _
> 
> *i think he just meant to ask how you would feel. i personally would fell akward and wouldnt want to.
> 
> kenpojujitsu even said it wasnt a gay bash, so why bring up those quiestions about being equal and american and all?? *



why would you feel awkward?  Would you feel akward with a 
woman?  Do you know that you're THAT attractive to a gay 
person?  I understand it's not a gay "bash" per se, but if you
and he didn't feel that there was something wrong with being
gay, or you coming into physical contact with someone gay, then
the question would never have been posed, would it?


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 15, 2002)

I would respect someone who was honest, weather it was the answer I like or not. There are probably more people who would say they have some kind of injury or come up with a lame reason not to grapple. And if it matters I have a cousin that is openly gay. I don't hate him or do I bash his life style. If he every asked for me to show him some stuff weather grappling or not I would show him. I believe you need to read the question a little more before you respone.
Bob :soapbox:


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 15, 2002)

Ok, been there, done that.

Years ago I got hit with a double whammy.  Did some psudo-wrestling (you know that stuff ya do when ya think ya know stuff, but havent had a single class yet) with a guy who was training.  He went to college with my then GF and we'd all hung out a bit.  Afterwards, he dropped 2 bombs on me.
1- he was gay.  This wasn't a big deal then, even less of one now adays.

2- he had the hots for me.  This part was a bit disturbing.  It would have been different if we hadn't just been wrestling.  

I've got no problems with same-gender relationships.  This just was too much for me at 18.  

To answer the question:
Would I grapple with him if I knew he was 'gay'? Probably.
Would I grapple with him if I knew he was attracted to me? Probably not.  

:asian:


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks Kaith, I would probably say the same thing. If he was gay no problem with the grappling thing. But if he had the hots for me, it would be very difficult (not a deffent NO) but it would be in the back of your mind.
Bob  :asian:


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## cdhall (Jul 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Kirk,

You totally 
a) Did not answer or address the question.  Twice.
b) went out of your way to attack the author.

I'm surprised.

Like Mr. Parker said at the seminar you and I attended, to paraphrase,  "the fact that you went there so quickly surprises me."

Kempojujutsu,

I think I would make an excuse (out of politeness) to find ways not to work with them anymore.  I would be waiting for them to give me an more open opportunity to say "Because I don't want to wrestle with you because you said you were gay."  Or something like that.

However, Kirk brought up some good points and I have been in situations before where I didn't act like I thought I might.  It would depend on the situation and how it came up later I guess.  Since you didn't say how the issue might be brought up later, you leave a lot to the imagination.

Based on that thought I must reiterate that it depends on the circumstances but that given the choice I would avoid the situation as I don't go to Gay bars or anywhere else that I might run into these guys, I would not expect them to go out of their way to run into me and that might be cause for suspicion again depending on how the issue was addressed to begin with.
:shrug:

I think Kirk might have enough material to start another thread.  Mr. Speakman said in a seminar once that he wasn't much interested in NHB events himself because of the greater risk than in the past that you can get diseases from contact with blood and that by extension, while biting someone on the street might be a good way to defend yourself, it could give you AIDS or something else so that he would discourage that practice as well. So I think maybe there is another thread's worth of material about fighting to avoid contact with blood and its associated diseases if we want to go there.


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## arnisador (Jul 16, 2002)

I used to train naval and Marine Corps officers in the early 1990s. (This would be more impressive if what I was training them in had the slightest connection to the martial arts.) As the "gays in the military" issue raged it was often discussed by my students. Most of my naval officer students couldn't have cared less about the issue but a few were strongly against it and often brought it up. But I'll never forget the Marine Corps major who surprised me by being thoroughly indifferent about the matter. He said:




> "It don't matter to me--they're gonna do what I tell 'em to do either way."



That is similar to my opinion about this matter--if they're a serious student, I couldn't possibly care less; if they're not a serious student, then I don't want to grapple with them no matter what their sexual orientation is. It's a non-issue. I hate to quote Bruce Lee as it's so overdone, but I remember reading in Joe Hyams' "Zen in the Martial Arts" about the author, Bruce Lee, and Sterling Silliphant discussing the difference between someone helping you _spend_ your time and someone who _wastes_ your time. I want training partners who help me _spend_ my time. If they're not going to do that, I'd rather be with my family...or reading a book. A good student or training partner is something to be valued!

*Kaith Rustaz* wrote:


> he had the hots for me. This part was a bit disturbing.



Having met Kaith, I am forced to concur.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jul 16, 2002)

> Based on that thought I must reiterate that it depends on the circumstances but that given the choice I would avoid the situation as I don't go to Gay bars or anywhere else that I might run into these guys, I would not expect them to go out of their way to run into me and that might be cause for suspicion again depending on how the issue was addressed to begin with.



Yup, I've never been to the mall, the grocery store, the library, the hardware store, the movies, downtown or any other 'gay' places either.  I seriously doubt that gangs of flaming homosexuals are roaming the countryside.  "We all took a vote, we want -you-!"

I was at a seminar where I knew there was a number of same-gender relationships.  Was no big deal.  They are people too. Get over it folks.  

Then again, maybe I'm just weird.  Course, I also hang out with Goths, Pagans, Wiccans and other such folk. (though the Trekkies scare me) 


Now, on to the important part here....Blood.  That would scare me.  Good solid crack on the jaw, and you're not only bleeding, but opened up.  Knife fighting more so.  So what happens when both you and your opponent are cut up and covered in each others crimson?  You pray to whatever you believe in that you are both clean. No AIDS, no hepetitis, etc.  Too many diseases can be spread by fluids.  AIDS isn't a 'gay' worry...its everyones worry.  I've trained with folks who freaked the moment a single drop of blood appeared.  We all have to be careful.

Peace.
:asian:


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## Yari (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



On the gay stuff. Sexual preferenses should be held out of the dojo, since all are equal in the dojo.

Concerning the AIDS thing. The HIV virus is not an atktiv virus, in that sense it can't swin, or try to move. So, so long your bleeding, the changes are very, very, very small for you to catch HIV. The only , proven way, to get HIV from blood, is a transfusion. Sexual contact is different, since sperm will try and penetrat everything it gets into contact with.

/Yari


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 16, 2002)

I have done it  , back in the days when I was young enough to grapple.   He was a close friend and he never trie dto hide the fack of his sexual prefrence.
Yes, I felt very akward the first time. Right up to the point he made me tape out for the third time. After that I got into the rythem of what we where doing, because he was putting a big hurt on me.  He was one of the finest grapplers I have ever known.
  I once asked him about his being gay and grappleing(remember we where good friends and could discuss things without any problems) he told me it was like my practiceing karate. He didn't think about anything but the holds , counters, etc. Grappleing was his art and he was a professional in all approches to it.
   I will teach anyone and practice with about anyone. I don't ask they dont have to tell  I dont care their life outside of practice is their buiness.
Shadow:asian:


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## Kirk (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *Kirk,
> 
> ...



The question doesn't warrant an answer, that's what I was
getting at.  Would this thread exist in a friendly manner if
he had asked "Would y'all have a problem grappling with a 
black guy?"   

The point I'm trying to make is that is shouldn't matter
whatsoever.


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Jul 16, 2002)

Earlier you stated that the original poster wouldn't have a problem grappling a girl that he thought was hot, however, you didn't address the fact that the girl might have a problem with it.
I know several women who won't spar, grapple, whatever you want to call it, with certain guys because they don't feel comfortable.  The fact is that some people don't feel comfortable "rolling" with someone who may find them physically attractive.  It presents a number of emotional and intellectual variables that you shouldn't have to concern yourself with in a training environment.  

You made the statement that you don't want to work out with someone who would waste your time.  Regardless of whether your hangups with homosexualty are warranted or not, if it affects your mental state then you are wasting your time.  You aren't devoting your entire "self" to your training.  Sexual Preference doesn't negate your humanity, but it shouldn't be a topic of open discussion in your respective "schools".  

The fact that the individual told his training partner that he was gay says something.  Some individuals use this as a way to test the water, so to speak.  If your okay with this than why not push further.  This may not be the case 100% of the time but it's a possibility.  

You must realize that regardless of whether or not you think these issues should exist, they do.  Therefore the best way to deal with them is to offer guidance not reproach.  If someone had a problem grappling with a black guy (as you so blatantly mentioned in your post), then you should approach the situation as a caring individual to deal with the problem, not tell them their wrong (regardless of whether they are or not).


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## arnisador (Jul 16, 2002)

*Kenpo Yahoo*, I think you're conflating several posts.

I think it's easy to see that some women might prefer not to grapple with men, or some men might prefer not to grapple with gay men. I think it's a shame both ways but people feel as they do. As for me, all I want is a serious training partner.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> The question doesn't warrant an answer, that's what I was
> ...



Kirk, not everyone thinks the same. You might not have a problem with a gay person, I might not have a problem with a gay person. But lets say one of your parents don't like this gay person. Or the entire class doesn't want to work out with this person. Now you have a major problem. How would you handle this problem.
Bob


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## Kirk (Jul 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Well I think it's obvious that I wouldn't give a damn.  Kenpo Yahoo
said:



> *
> "You must realize that regardless of whether or not you think these issues should exist, they do. Therefore the best way to deal with them is to offer guidance not reproach. If someone had a problem grappling with a black guy (as you so blatantly mentioned in your post), then you should approach the situation as a caring individual to deal with the problem, not tell them their wrong (regardless of whether they are or not)."
> *



But history tells us that THAT is exactly what we should do.  If
anything will deystroy a country, it's hate and prejudice.  (I'm
NOT implying you hate anyone)  This is an important issue for
me.  Did Rosa Parks handle her lack of civil rights with guidance,
or reproach?  Reproach doesn't mean violence, or hate, but I 
do feel it means in your face statement of THIS IS WRONG.  How
far have we as a society come since she refused to leave her 
seat?   It wasn't all that long ago, that discussions of dancing,
touching, drinking after, sitting on the same toilet seat of 
someone of a "minority" race was a discussion among w.a.s.ps.  
I'm all about freedom baby!  All citizens deserve the priviledge of 
living free.  

That being said, it seems that you want me to comment on how
I feel that those who DO have a problem rolling on the floor with
gay people should handle it.  Well if it IS a problem for you, for
whatever justification you have, then stand up and be a man
about it.  Publicly state "I will not wrestle that gay man".  If you're
that steadfast on your convictions, then let it be known, and then
let the instructor handle you for your convictions.  If you can't
handle that, then get on the mat and shut up.

You all think I'm approaching this in a harsh way.  The fact of the
matter is all that have posted here, so far have my respect.  I 
don't recall any of you being involved in flame wars or trolling 
on  here.  But I am passionate, because I don't want my country
going down in flames started by it's own citizens.


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## Yari (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> As for me, all I want is a serious training partner. [/B]



Amen to that, and a serious teacher.



> * Kirk*
> I feel that those who DO have a problem rolling on the floor with
> gay people should handle it. Well if it IS a problem for you, for
> whatever justification you have, then stand up and be a man
> ...



I agree. If something is a problem, say it. Don't beat around the bush, or (as we say in Denmark)..don't wrap people up in cotten.
The most respectful way of handfling people is giving your feedback, as long as its not patronizing.

I think it's a modern flaw that we try to think for each other. Like... oh he's black, so I can't say black jokes, or he is disabled so I can't talk to him. So be honest: "Do you mind if I told a racial joke" or " I'd like to talk to you, but I'm not sure what to talk about." Pretty straight forward, no hidden intent, and then your really being honest.

/Yari


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## Kenpo Yahoo (Jul 17, 2002)

Anisador:    Oops, your right, I'm guilty of conflation.

To everyone else:  

I agree with whoever said you should stand up and be a man about it, don't make excuses.  Use some judgement though, if you feel that it might put that individual into an akward situation, be respectful enough to address the problem in a private setting.
You wouldn't want to be responsible for making that individual quit because you made him feel stupid in front of the class.

Kirk: 

I understand your strong convictions about this topic.  Almost every great Civilization came to ruin from the inside (its domestic problems).  Sure most were destroyed by an outside presence, but it was only because the internal dissension had destroyed its social fiber.  Rosa Parks was about the fair treatment of "colored" people, and indeed all people, and the fight for their civil liberties.  I don't see how telling someone that you are uncomfortable working out with them infringes upon their civil liberties.  Afterall, your not forcing them to work in the designated "GAY" corner of the school, if you were that would be an infringement of civil liberties.  I think if the people who are involved can sit down, be up front, and honest then the situation will play out in a respectable manner.  I just get tired of hearing people tell others they are wrong without looking further to find out why they feel that way.  By doing so you could possibly help that individual overcome that particular social stigma.  Helping one person is the first step to safe-guarding against the destruction of our nations social fiber.  Imagine what our country would be like if everyone tried this.

Sorry to get into all this, but this has by far been the most intelligent string I've seen on this forum.  I commend everyone here for being able to discuss this without "blowing up"


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## Kirk (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _
> 
> *I commend everyone here for being able to discuss this without "blowing up" *



DITTO!


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## MartialArtist (Aug 27, 2002)

I wrestled a gay person in high school.  The guy didn't do anything wierd, they are human just like us.

I wrestled a partly blind person, and I got killed.

I wrestled a girl and almost got killed, mainly because I let her.


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## Angus (Aug 31, 2002)

I believe someone already said my thoughts: Just because they are gay does NOT mean that they are attracted to you. They probably just want to train.


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## Ground Dragon (Apr 30, 2003)

Yep, it's pretty presumptuous to assume because someone is gay they are going to be attracted to you.  
Really, I think there are much worse things to be worried about.  I mean there are a lot of nasty folks rolling around sometimes. 
I'm more worried about some people's hygiene or lack thereof.  There used to be this guy I had to roll with, who stunk like crazy and had these crazy long fingernails.  He was nasty.  I don't know of anyone that is really so bad off they can't take a shower, esp when they can afford to come to a bjj school.  I got bad scratches a couple of times from his nails too.  I never did say anything although I should have.  I would just get pissed and put him in a nasty position.  I hate to say it, but thankfully he quit coming.


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## pesilat (Apr 30, 2003)

For me, it would boil down to what I thought their intention was. And this goes for women as well as men. If I get the impression that someone wants to train with me (grappling or otherwise) simply because they find me attractive and want to cop free feels, then I wouldn't do it.

But if I got the impression that their intentions were to learn then I would have no problem with it ... even if they did find me attractive.

I would give them points for fessing up about being attracted to me, but I would make sure they knew that I was there to train (especially since I'm a very happily married man). If that's what they're there for, too, then great. Let's train.

I think most gay guys would tell their training partner just to get it out in the open and see how it flew. I'd much rather hear it from the person than from the grapevine. And if a guy told me he was gay ... or anyone told me they were attracted to me ... I would just assume they were getting it out in the open before I heard it through the grapevine.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they were testing the waters ... but as long as they're there to train, then I have no problem with it.

Now, if during training, I think they're taking the advantage to cop feels, then I'm going to have a talk with them about "crossing lines and going outside the boundaries of training." This would apply to male or females. But I wouldn't be paranoid about it and freak out over incidental contacts.

Mike


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## Jill666 (May 1, 2003)

Well, I have to say that when I read the first post on this thread I had exactly the same reaction as Kirk, and read his post thinking- "Yeah!".  But the thread continues and a lot of interesting points have come up. 

Being female, I couldn't care less about the sexual orientation of the guys in my dojo.  But if a black belt lesbian joined, I wouldn't care about that, either, grappling, suiting up, whatever. :shrug: I doubt I'm the most stunning woman around and that she couldn't keep her hands off me. 

There was only one man I refused to work with, Psycho Tony. He trained in privates, then moved into our class, then due to his behaviors, was moved mainly back to privates. Eventually he stopped coming in. He had a criminal history which prohibited him owning guns, but he obsessed about guns all the time. He also talked crap about women all the time- how they lied and played games and couldn't be trusted. Nobody wanted to work with him, but whenever he moved towards me to partner up, one of my classmates always seemed to get in the middle- bless them. Only once did I have to confront him by myself, when we were alone by the changing rooms, and he started talking about someone who had pissed him off, so he killed him. I told him to "knock that $h!t off, I don't want to hear it" and walked away. 

In my Taijutsu class, there are two openly gay men (no, not lovers). Nobody in the class seems to care, and there is a good deal more grappling there than in Kenpo. We're all too busy trying not to die. :ninja: 

I think as long as everyone is busy learning, it doesn't matter a bit. If someone is coming on to you, that's a whole different matter, and I cetainly would avoid grappling them. Self-defense I wouldn't see the need to avoid, unless it became a problem. 

Ground Dragon had an excellent point about nasty people-  In a city I'm sure there are a small percent of mentally ill/paranoid people who start to train, and have hygeine issues to deal with. I've seen two in my dojo- one left in a couple of weeks. The other actually cleaned up, clipped the nails, and made it through a couple of belt testings. He had a serious panic disorder, and we were all pretty impressed with his cajones to pull that off! 

My instructor has had quite a bit of weirdness to deal with, and he's always managed to do it in his office, so nobody gets embarrassed. (I won't mention his own relationship with a black belt female that blew up in a spectacular fight ) 

Blood is a whole other problem- no matter what the quantity, it gets cleaned up and bandaged without delay but also without any fuss. I'm far more likely to be exposed to TB on the subway than Hep C in the dojo. But if someone is bleeding in the dojo it's easy enough to deal with. 

It was actually more of a sticky situation when my training partner ended up with my nailmarks on his throat-  He didn't appreciate that very much. The other guys thought it was pretty funny. His wife did not. Now I keep my nails clipped as short as possible.


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## Master of Blades (May 1, 2003)

Firstly, Just cuz there gay doesnt mean they automatically have the hits for you.....So theres always that. 

Secondly, I think its wrong to deny that guy his training just because hes gay, Its pretty unlikley hes gonna do anything anyways.

Sure I would feel awkward....I'm 16. But I'd get over it, plus if he did do anything its a good reason to beat his *** to the ground  

That was probably the worst wording ever....... :shrug:


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## 2looselatrek (May 1, 2003)

It's great to see so many of you say that it would really
be a non issue to grapple someone gay. An opponent is
an opponent, you are there to throw down, not to go down.
My only question is: would you still grapple the same dude
if you were both naked? 
Not that I've ever grappled another man.... naked, I mean....
never mind.


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## Master of Blades (May 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 2looselatrek _
> *It's great to see so many of you say that it would really
> be a non issue to grapple someone gay. An opponent is
> an opponent, you are there to throw down, not to go down.
> ...



Grapple him if you were naked? Probably not, but only person I would grapple naked is possibly my girlfriend :lol:


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## moromoro (May 3, 2003)

yes this should be a non issue...................


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## Jill666 (May 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 2looselatrek _
> *
> Not that I've ever grappled another man.... naked, I mean....
> never mind. *



Ooh-ooh- (waves hand) I have!


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## Master of Blades (May 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *Ooh-ooh- (waves hand) I have! *



Interesting........How about another women?  

Hey, I'm 16


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## 2looselatrek (May 3, 2003)

Hey Jill666,
Good for you! But since I've never grappled
another man naked, let me guess.... Smells
like poodle, tastes like chicken?


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## moromoro (May 5, 2003)

id love to grapple a woman, only if shes good looking


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## Bod (May 13, 2003)

I regularly have to grapple a smelly sweaty chap, and once a drop of his sweat fell onto my eardrum, making a huge 'plop' sound.

Wrestling girls is difficult. There are places you just shouldn't stick your hands. Not easy. The two girls who regularly come to my dojo usually have me locked up in no time, so the hands issue is less of a problem.

I once untied a guy's trouser string, so that they fell down when he traversed into his next move. I was told that it was not 'in the spirit of judo'. However, I got away with grating someones forehead with my stubble to get out of an armlock. He, he!

My judo teacher tells a story of when he was a team manager, back in the sixties I think. He'd banned girls from the mens rooms, but was having trouble enforcing this rule. It got worse when he sprung a surprise visit on one chap, only to find him naked and beating another man, similarly dressed, with a riding crop.


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## Elfan (May 13, 2003)

Neigher gender or sexual orientation is a factor.


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## bob919 (May 30, 2003)

i thought this would be a gay bashing thread luckily its not 

i dont think i would care i would be more concerned if i was attracted to my partner  cause a stiffy during grappling is pretty noticable


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## Zepp (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bob919 _
> *i dont think i would care i would be more concerned if i was attracted to my partner  cause a stiffy during grappling is pretty noticable *



Adrenaline should prevent that.  At least, it seemed to prevent me from getting too excited when I had to grapple with a girl.  (Good thing too.  Her boyfriend was also in the class.)


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## Elfan (May 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bob919 _
> *i thought this would be a gay bashing thread luckily its not
> 
> i dont think i would care i would be more concerned if i was attracted to my partner  cause a stiffy during grappling is pretty noticable *



Always wear a cup ;-)


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## krys (Jun 13, 2003)

Sorry but  I couldn't resist,

"Wrestling girls is difficult. "

But so nice.......

"There are places you just shouldn't stick your hands. 

Well....

"The two girls who regularly come to my dojo usually have me locked up in no time,"

Two? Locked up in no time? Lucky guy....

"so the hands issue is less of a problem."

Yeah, hopefully.....


triangle? mount? is this really bjj?


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## krys (Jun 14, 2003)

Wow,wow,wow,

given the number of views of this thread this  must be a major concern for grapplers.....


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## sammy3170 (Jun 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kempojujutsu _
> *This is not a gay bash thread, but how would you act if someone came in wanted to grapple and said maybe afterwards he was gay. Would you want to grapple with them again, or would you find a reason not to grapple with them.
> Bob  :asian: *



Id have to say to any person who didnt want to grapple with a gay person to get some bricks, some steel girders etc, build a bridge and GET OVER IT.

Cheers
Sammy


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## Greggers69 (Jul 15, 2003)

Who cares.  I have wrestled young women in HS.  So what is the difference between that and someone being gay.  Can't believe you even posted this!


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## tkdcanada (Jul 15, 2003)

There is one thing I didn't see addressed here, so I'll just throw it out there.  Everyone was so busy defending the gay person's rights to be like anyone else (which he has without a doubt) and presuming that the author of this thread had a problem with it, that no one seemed to notice that it was the gay guy that mentioned he was gay.  Now, this tells me that it was an issue for the gay guy, not the thread author.  I'm not even a guy, so I can't shed any light on the what if, but I really believe that there is absolutely no reason for a gay person to have to mention the fact.   Doing so just creates a situation of discomfort for everyone.


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## kilo (Jul 16, 2003)

I like to think that I wouldnt bother me.  But I'd probably be uncomfortable for a little while at least.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 16, 2003)

If you think you don't know any gay people... yes you do.
If you think you haven't sparred any gay people... yes you have.
I never thought Karate studios were good places to spark up relationships because eventualy a breakup could occur and leave you with only one of two students or possibly neither. Martial arts is the one place you can leave all that behind and just train. I agree with a previous post; your sexuality or your abhorance to someone elses sexuality has no place on the training floor. You're training so that you may survive a grappling situation, The more filthy and disgusting your trainng partner is the better. Do you think Mary Poppins is going to take you to the ground? No the most vile creatures on the face of this earth are trying to kill you, and your worried about who's picture you Partner carries in his wallet?  Shut up and train.


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## otherground (Jul 17, 2003)

Kim Mason ... an NHB fighter and grappler out of AMC was apparently gay ... none of his team mates ever suspected it ... he ended up getting convicted of murdering his gay boyfriend because he was going to tell people that he was gay ... here is an article on the trial:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/134672048_mason09e.html


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