# Wanted to leave with a Black belt?



## still learning (Mar 23, 2006)

Hello, Just a short story here. When we were training at a Shotokan school, we had a young student (14 years old), a green belt,he and his family were moving away to the mainland.(from Hawaii).

He ask the Sensi "Can a get a Black belt before I go? " The Sensi look at the young man and said "$5.00. The whole class started laughing.

The young man was serious but did not realize what he was asking for? He was hoping to earn a Black belt from our Sensi. 

Just a note here: It will take years to learn your art? Have patience and practice hard daily...the time will come? ..........Aloha


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## Sapper6 (Mar 23, 2006)

$5.00...?

what a shame.  i would have sold him one for $3.00.


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## evenflow1121 (Mar 23, 2006)

Goes back to the misconception by some that if you have reached the bb you have some how completed the style.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 23, 2006)

You mean, that after all that work, there is still MORE to learn and do?


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## Ceicei (Mar 23, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> You mean, that after all that work, there is still MORE to learn and do?



Tough, isn't it? :wink:


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## Hand Sword (Mar 23, 2006)

Absolutely crushing!


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## Grenadier (Mar 24, 2006)

I had a child ask that once as well, about a dozen years ago.  I was a bit more of a jokester back then, and took my extra belt from my bag, and held it in one hand, while picking up one of the spare white belts from the box and a black marker in the other hand.  

I gave him the white belt and black magic marker, and said "enjoy!"  

He piped indignantly: "That's not a real black belt!"  

I then told him "Neither would this (as I pointed to my extra belt) be, if I just gave it to you without you having demonstrated the requirements."  

He didn't come back for a couple of weeks, and I felt badly for having done that.  Still, he did end up coming back, and eventually did end up getting his black belt legitimately.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 24, 2006)

i'm frequently disappointed (used to be surprised) at how often people do quit training after they get their black belt.  i mean, i'm all about being goal oriented but after so long you think they wouldn't miss the point so badly.


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## beau_safken (Mar 24, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> I had a child ask that once as well, about a dozen years ago. I was a bit more of a jokester back then, and took my extra belt from my bag, and held it in one hand, while picking up one of the spare white belts from the box and a black marker in the other hand.
> 
> I gave him the white belt and black magic marker, and said "enjoy!"
> 
> ...


 
That's just classic....Nice....


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## Odin (Mar 24, 2006)

............I have a confession......I once brought a blackbelt from a sports shop to impress a girl......i dint even have a gi! i just hung it over my door!lol
hey man I was 16!


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## Kacey (Mar 24, 2006)

Belts are nice... belts are dandy... belts are good for holding up your pants or making sure your dobak top stays closed.  They are the colors they are so that students can readily identify who knows more than they do, so they know who they should go to for help, and who knows less than they do, so they know who they should be helping.  The belt itself is meaningless; the knowledge and abilities that one gains in earning the belt are the meaningful portion.

As my sahbum is fond of saying:  "belts don't come with batteries."  A belt is a piece of cloth, easily and cheaply purchased - knowledge is hard to come by, and worth recognition.  This concept (rather than the quest for rank for the sake of a belt color) should be taught to students so that they understand the value of the knowledge they are gaining, rather than the color of the belt they wear.


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## Cirdan (Mar 25, 2006)

Sometimes I wonder if belts shoud be dyed after each grading instead of being exchanged for a new one with the appropriate colour. A small symbolic thing perhaps, but perhaps it would change peoples` understanding of the belts. A black belt has soaked up a lot of dye to get it`s colour just as the person has soked up a lot of knowledge but he has grown, not ben replaced.

Then again perhaps this is to ritualistic. Just a tought


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 26, 2006)

this is done frequently in japan.  my wife lived over there for four years and did that while studying shorinji kempo.

of course, at that studio the ranks went white, green, brown, black.

harder to do with a more modern system where you have to move from, say, green to blue.


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## The Lorax (Mar 29, 2006)

I can see why you could want to get one from your dojo before you move away, but legitamitely.  I would like to get one at my dojo here at school before I graduate in three years.  Though it isnt the belt I want, I want to know that I know all the requirements.  I've only just past my first test, so it's very unlikely that I'll get it before I graduate, but there's always grad school.  It would be nice to get it here, with my friends and my sensei.  

Another reason I want it before I leave is because I'm going to be traveling a lot, mostly to countries where there is nowhere to train.  I'd also like to be able to teach there so I'd be able to have practice with and spread the art.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 30, 2006)

Maybe training on your own and video testing?


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## IcemanSK (Apr 5, 2006)

That's a good story that illustrates what the belt represents. I've had students be quite brazen & actually ask me to trade belts. Next time it happens, I'll take em up on it & they'll lead class. I'll help them plan class for the next session.


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## White Fox (Apr 19, 2006)

Odin said:
			
		

> ............I have a confession......I once brought a blackbelt from a sports shop to impress a girl......i dint even have a gi! i just hung it over my door!lol
> hey man I was 16!


 

HAHAHAHAHAHAH thats too funny!!!!!!


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## still learning (Apr 19, 2006)

The Lorax said:
			
		

> I can see why you could want to get one from your dojo before you move away, but legitamitely. I would like to get one at my dojo here at school before I graduate in three years. Though it isnt the belt I want, I want to know that I know all the requirements. I've only just past my first test, so it's very unlikely that I'll get it before I graduate, but there's always grad school. It would be nice to get it here, with my friends and my sensei.
> 
> Another reason I want it before I leave is because I'm going to be traveling a lot, mostly to countries where there is nowhere to train. I'd also like to be able to teach there so I'd be able to have practice with and spread the art.


 
Hello, The color is not as important as your knowledge.  People will not listen to the color of the belt.  It is your knowledge you present that is more important. No matter the color.  In some schools you can earn a BB in two years,others alot longer,(us at least 5 years).

If you feel you have enough knowledge to teach?  Ask you Sensi first? ...Good luck...you may find some new art, in the new places you go to? Don't be surprise....Aloha


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## Bigshadow (Apr 19, 2006)

Kacey said:
			
		

> Belts are nice... belts are dandy... belts are good for holding up your ....


And here I thought you were going for a lemric! HAHAHAHA :rofl:


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## Robert Lee (Apr 19, 2006)

A belt you ware knowledge is what you know. But people want others to see what they think they know. And today to many schools give out black belts like halloween candy. That takes away the concept of black belt. Which in truth a 1st degree black belt only means you have learned the basics well enough and means you are a good brown belt.  Belts should in my books be done away with give the student a certificate of rank or level. And hopefully the student has earned it. But that way outside veiws of school and such skill demonstates the difference you see not a belt around someones waist.


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## still learning (Apr 20, 2006)

Hello, In Judo, let said you are a green belt..you will need to beat a couple of other green belts (when your Sensi says to test) before you can move up. Usually in competitions and you must have a certain amount of wins. This is how my son and other test for rank here on "Big Island" of Hawaii.

Fighting others at the same rank and beating a certain numbers is one way to truely test for ranks...in the old days..fighting others was part of the testing.

Joe Lewis got his Black belt in a couple of months..because he kept beating all the other black belts in class....

Is there a fair way to test a person to see if they are consider/rated a black belt? and base on whose critera? for ever one...  NEVER will happen...Aloha


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## Hand Sword (Apr 26, 2006)

No, not one way, unless everything becomes standardized. Even then, you'd probably have an underground system going on.


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## matt.m (May 24, 2006)

Cirdan said it dead on.  See in Moo Sul Kwan: Hapkido or Tae Kwon Do we follow that philosophy of get help from everyone and give help to everyone.


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## crushing (May 24, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Absolutely crushing!


 

What?


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## Swordlady (May 24, 2006)

bushidomartialarts said:
			
		

> i'm frequently disappointed (used to be surprised) at how often people do quit training after they get their black belt.  i mean, i'm all about being goal oriented but after so long you think they wouldn't miss the point so badly.



We don't have any ranks until shodan.  Seniority prior to shodan is roughly estimated by length of training.  That kind of works out, I guess.  Sadly, most of our shodan had quit coming to class on a regular basis.  I think that my sensei promoted about 10 to shodan over the course of ten years - and only two or three come to class most every week.  At least one shodan has to be in class every week, since Sensei only teaches us on the first Saturday of the month.  Since we only meet once a week (for 4 hours at a time), it is especially important to not miss too many classes, and to practice outside of the dojo.

I still may be _kohai_ to all of these absentee shodan, but the times I saw a few of them performing kata, their lack of practice is clearly evident.  Which is a shame.  I wonder sometimes how seriously these people take their training.

Our soke is flying in from Japan this fall for a 4 day training seminar.  Sensei is already emphasizing to the shodan who _haven't_ been coming to class to show up to this seminar.


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## Grenadier (May 24, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> I think that my sensei promoted about 10 to shodan over the course of ten years - and only two or three come to class most every week.


 
That's actually not unusual at all.  For your "average" dojo, maybe 1 out of every 50-150 students make it to shodan.  However, if you take a look at those who go from shodan to nidan, you're probably going to get another fractional ratio, varying from 1 out of every 25 to 1 out of every 50.


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## Swordlady (May 25, 2006)

Grenadier said:
			
		

> That's actually not unusual at all.  For your "average" dojo, maybe 1 out of every 50-150 students make it to shodan.  However, if you take a look at those who go from shodan to nidan, you're probably going to get another fractional ratio, varying from 1 out of every 25 to 1 out of every 50.



If so many people quit after making shodan, I wonder how dedicated they really were to their art.  Were they in it, just so they could get a black belt?  As others have said, earning a first degree black belt shouldn't be the end of one's martial art journey.  I actually feel it even more keenly as one studying a _koryu_.  As I've learned more about my art, the tradition and history behind it, I've been feeling even a greater sense of responsibility in _learning_ as much as I can, so that I can also help with transmitting its teachings to the next generation of students.


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## Kacey (May 25, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> If so many people quit after making shodan, I wonder how dedicated they really were to their art.  Were they in it, just so they could get a black belt?  As others have said, earning a first degree black belt shouldn't be the end of one's martial art journey.  I actually feel it even more keenly as one studying a _koryu_.  As I've learned more about my art, the tradition and history behind it, I've been feeling even a greater sense of responsibility in _learning_ as much as I can, so that I can also help with transmitting its teachings to the next generation of students.



Many people see shodan as an ending - the fulfillment of their goals as a martial artist.  Also, by that time, a great deal of time has (hopefully) been invested, and many people see shodan as a time to start something new, having mastered (sarcastic snicker) their art.


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