# Insomnia Cures?



## MikeMartial (Sep 9, 2004)

So...I've been battling this for a while now, and only in the past year (since I turned 30) has it gotten to the point that I've need to see my family doc. I do work shiftwork, so I know I'm kinda hooped right off the bat. 



Tried pretty much everything under the sun, and most is hit and miss. 

Valarian Root: Eh, not so great
Kava Kava : Not anymore! Need my liver
Melatonin : Not bad, but not great. Can't find the 0.3mg in Canada. Tried the 3mg tabs, and did 6mg one night. Nothing special.

I try and make sure my sleep habits are good. Low light, no heavy meals prior to bed, no alcohol, no caffiene within 6 hours, etc etc.

Got a rx for zopiclone from a walk-in clinic doc (my regular doc won't prescribe it for me, too psychologically addicting.), and it works, heh, REALLY well. Problem is, I don't want to have to depend on it. So...anyone have any sure-fire insomnia cures?


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## TigerWoman (Sep 9, 2004)

Hey if you come up with something, let me know.  What I've been doing lately is staying up until I know I'm dead tired.  I exercise at noon because exercise in the evening revs you up.  Hot chocolate, not so hot and toast is good for me. Can't remember its something in milk that makes you sleepy. I take Sominex usually but that doesn't always work either. I hate to take stuff like and get into a dependence habit.  Haven't tried one of those sound machines, might work.  A gurgling fish tank once used to do it to me. My problem is usually because I think about all my worries and frustrations before I fall to sleep. So, if you come up with a non-prescription method, let me know. TW


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## Marginal (Sep 9, 2004)

I dimly remember reading a list that went something like this:

1) Don't obsess about it. If you're not falling asleep, go do something else to distract yourself, and try again later. The more you worry about it, the bigger the problem seems.

2) Don't eat, or exercise within two hours of going to bed. (YMMV tho. I exercise to distract myself from whatever I'm thinking about that's keeping me up, and you're not revved up when physically exhausted in my experinece.) 

3) All sleep aids are habit forming.


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## Lisa (Sep 9, 2004)

MikeMartial said:
			
		

> Got a rx for zopiclone from a walk-in clinic doc (my regular doc won't prescribe it for me, too psychologically addicting.), and it works, heh, REALLY well. Problem is, I don't want to have to depend on it. So...anyone have any sure-fire insomnia cures?


I had a bout of insomnia about 1 1/2 years ago.  I also received a prescription.  I took it and I quickly became dependent on it.  It came to a point where I couldn't sleep without it and finally had to go cold turkey.  Shortly after stopping the rx I started sleeping better.  So my advice is to stay away from it completely.


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## Rob Broad (Sep 9, 2004)

Usually when my insomnia is really bothering me, I read a few posts by rmcroberston, that usuallt bores me to the point where I fall asleep right at teh computer.  I don't mind that but it is hard wiping drool off the keyboard all the time.


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## Ceicei (Sep 9, 2004)

Rob Broad said:
			
		

> Usually when my insomnia is really bothering me, I read a few posts by rmcroberston, that usuallt bores me to the point where I fall asleep right at teh computer. I don't mind that but it is hard wiping drool off the keyboard all the time.




Oh, you're bad!!!!

- Ceicei


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## TigerWoman (Sep 9, 2004)

LOL, Thanks for the advice Rob, didn't think about that... TW


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## MA-Caver (Sep 9, 2004)

That was bad... poor Mike. 

Anyhoo, I suffer occasional bouts of sleeplessness and sometimes have to go a full 24-48 hour cycle without sleep before my body says: "Ok, time to pass out now" and if it's too early in the day then I fight it and wait til the appropriate time for me to be in bed and then zonk out.
It varies with person to person as to the why's... but in-so-far the BEST advice has already been given... stay away from the non and prescripts sleep aids. 
I know that my own insomnia is usually caused by my own stress at whatever circumstances I happen to find myself in currently. Since you can't sleep, you might take a look at what's going on in your life and find the things that are bugging you... even just a little bit and take care of them to where they aren't buggy anymore and then see if that helps. 
Our bodies react oddly to the various stresses we experience day to day. Sometimes it's a insignificant reaction or a major one like insomnia or worse. 

Try the old mom's cure for sleeplessness... warm milk... (ewww).


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## Zepp (Sep 10, 2004)

I've never had to deal with long-term insomnia myself, but several friends of mine who do have told me that sexual activity helps them.


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## bassplayer (Sep 10, 2004)

Have any of you ever tried meditation?  Especially if the day's events (or life's events, for that matter!) are running nonstop through your mind, its good to increase your oxygen levels a bit - relax, breathe deeply, and let your thoughts linger on the rudiments of just that and nothing more!  I've bought a couple of Qigong books lately and I'm reading 'Qigong, The Secret of Youth' by Jwing-Ming Yang right now.  Good stuff, although he keeps referencing his book 'The roots of Chinese Qigong' in there in a prerequisite context, so I think I will pick that one up as well.  Definitely worth reading!  Most of my days seem full enough to an extent that I am dog tired in the fast lane by the time my head hits the pillow and I dont have much of a problem getting to sleep.  The relaxation should help though!


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## Bushigokoro9 (Sep 10, 2004)

AMBIEN!  (zolpidem tartrate)  It is a non- benzodiazipine. 

6.5 hr half life (no next day effects) 

Selective binding to the omega 1 receptor.  (which means it only effects sleep)

It helps with falling asleep, staying asleep and not waking too early.  

If you do not have insurance it is a bit expensive (about $2.70 per pill). 

I would ask for a sample from a Doc.  It is not habit forming but as some one stated earlier, people are addicted to a good night sleep. (psychological) 

It has a great safety profile but should be used to get you started on a good sleep hygiene unless you suffer from chronic insomnia then get some tests done.  Are you or have you been taking any SSRI's????  They can cause insomnia in some people.  

The dosing is 5 mg and 10mg.  The 5 mg is used in the elderly or some one with liver problems (hepatic impairment)

And no, I do not sell the product but I have used it every now and then.

Best Regards


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 10, 2004)

> My problem is usually because I think about all my worries and frustrations before I fall to sleep.


Testify!

For me, what works - a heavy meal right before sleeping - or at least something in my stomach.  It works like a light sedative.  Reading until my eyelids drop - unless it's a really engrossing book, in which case I stay up all night reading it. One thing works well - watching something incredibly dull on TV, like HSN or QVC.  Ugly embroidered wall hangings make me want to sleep rather than watch people gush about them.

I have sleeping pills for when it gets really bad.  I don't use them very often, and I think they are very low dose - I'm sensitive to meds.


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## Lisa (Sep 10, 2004)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> Ugly embroidered wall hangings make me want to sleep rather than watch people gush about them.


That one made me spit out my pepsi!  LOL!:rofl: 

For me, a change in location usually helps.  I go and lie down on the couch.  

Do you drink caffeinated beverages?  I know that if I want to get to bed at a decent hour, like 11 pm or something I never drink anything with caffeine after supper.  It really affects me for a long period of time buzzing me out something fierce.


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 10, 2004)

Sometimes, if you have something caffeinated earlier in the evening, the resulting loss-of-caffeine-crash can put you to sleep, too.


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## Bushigokoro9 (Sep 10, 2004)

6.5 hr half life (no next day effects) \

Correction.  2.5 hour half life.  should give 6 to 7 hours of sleep ( 6.5)  

sorry folks.


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## bignick (Sep 10, 2004)

reading also helps me fall to sleep...an enjoyable story helps distract the mind until you're tired enough to fall asleep



			
				Rob Broad said:
			
		

> Usually when my insomnia is really bothering me, I read a few posts by rmcroberston, that usuallt bores me to the point where I fall asleep right at teh computer. I don't mind that but it is hard wiping drool off the keyboard all the time.


getting the impring of: 

TYUIOP
FGHJKL

out of your forehead might get a little annoying too


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## TigerWoman (Sep 11, 2004)

bignick said:
			
		

> reading also helps me fall to sleep...an enjoyable story helps distract the mind until you're tired enough to fall asleep
> 
> getting the impring of:
> 
> ...



Oh you get my funny award of the day.  Good one.    Watching FX right now, really has some good MA fight scenes, review movies with Jet Li.  Between watching that and posting till my mind is as dead as by bod will probably cure insomnia. TW


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## Tae Kwon Doughboy (Sep 11, 2004)

I had it for awhile but managed to work through it. I a problem solver by nature and occupation and how feel a higher then normal (and perhaps less than healthy) sense of responsibility. I was working 80 hour weeks at the time, which lasted for a few years. I was physically active but didn't excersize due to my schedule. Anyway my mind would either not shut off at night or would turn back on in the middle of the night. Burnout followed. Melatonin didn't help a bit.

Fortunately the CEO recognized the situation and transferred me to another department. My new boss knew I had been interested in martial arts in general and introduced me to Tai Chi and Qi Gung. They both helped enormously. I was like a baby discovering its toes for the first time! I gradually reduced my work hours, increased my exercize and changed my diet. I have moved on to TKD and continue Qi Gung before before bed. I rarely lose any sleep anymore.

I plan to return to Tai Chi as I get older or can't keep up with TKD anymore.


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## Chronuss (Oct 1, 2004)

okay...this semester has been killing me. I don't have a heavy classload, only fifteen credits, and MA class. I haven't been able to sleep worth $#$@! I haven't drank any soda in months, I have one cup of coffee in the morning to wake me up, and have been emptying between four and ten bottles of water per day. I literally don't get tired until 3 or 4 am, then I have to get right back up at 7:30 to get ready for class, so some nights I haven't even been sleeping. trips to the gym and MA classes should in theory tire me out, but even after the workouts and occasional sparring, I still can't get my body to shut down until the wee hours of the morn.  I've tried warm milk, Unisom, Tylenol PM, Ambien, and Diazepam, granted not all at the same time, even wine or a drink doesn't help.  reading doesn't help cause then I get too into what I'm reading and won't put it down for hours on end, which is how I read all the Harry Potter books in less than a month.  videogames keep me too alert to tire me, so that hasn't worked either.  hell, even watching info-mercials doesn't have an effect.  :idunno:


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## KenpoTess (Oct 1, 2004)

I've been pretty restless of late, going to sleep by midnite, but waking up every hour, getting up at 5 am... Growls...
I know the weather may have something to do with it, cooler et al, but I'm not tired either.. least physically.. mentally.. I feel like I'm totally unable to 'focus'... I dunno.. stress? The Moon? sure is buggy tis all I know......
maybe I should knock ya out.. *yeah that's the ticket*


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## FUZZYJ692000 (Oct 1, 2004)

hey tess and chad, i know what maybe causing part of your sleeping problem is that you both recently started a new system for fitness too.  your bodies are probably trying to catch up with your mental who is telling it it must sleep.  i personally like the couple glasses of wine, with the jacuzz for about 15-30 minutes.  then take a facial pack that you can throw in the microwave and heat that and wear it....puts me right to bed.  there's also this one stuff called glugwine (?), it's german, and it's almost like an apple cider with warm wine that makes me see sheep....my problem is not having enough energy, all the more reason why i have multi-vitamins


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## Spud (Oct 1, 2004)

I'll recite the Lord's Prayer a for about 2-5 minutes and that seems to click the switch on my mind. 

 I'm not a church kind of guy, but the repition seems to help. I suppose one could do it with any sort of verse.


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## Feisty Mouse (Oct 1, 2004)

Sometimes conditioning is an amazing thing.

My advisor has told me about another professor's wife - when she had one of their children, she was not able to have milk letdowns when the baby wanted to feed.  The doctor set her up with conditioning herself to do something before every nursing session.  She would drink a glass of water, and then nurse. 

The conditioning worked, and she had milk letdowns, but it became so specified that it would only work if she used a particular mug.  

My advisor was told this at a gathering at the couple's house, when he was drinking out of the mug, and they said, Oh, it's the nursing mug!


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## MikeMartial (Oct 2, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> maybe I should knock ya out.. *yeah that's the ticket*


I bet that'd work just fine 

Well, 5:30 AM.  Was in bed by 10 because I didn't sleep last night, and I was wide-eyed at 2. Grr. And I have a 10 hour dayshift ahead of me.

I swear, I wish I was 18 again.


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## KenpoTess (Oct 2, 2004)

*Snickers*  Yeah, now maybe it best be a Dual knockout~!


Today I was wide awake at 5:30 am... no reason at all to get up so early, was asleep by midnite.. I quit~!!


Jani, You have a very good point~!!  Besides the workout, the new Construction career prolly has something to do with it eh~!!


~Tess


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## FUZZYJ692000 (Oct 2, 2004)

yep tess the construction probably has something along that line...i know when we were doing our house i was up every morning 6 am to get ready for school and i would be up til like 12am -2 sometimes 3 am that night with like 1 hrs. of sleep let me tell you that so sucked....i like my sleep...another thing that i like that also helps is decaffinated tea with some milk and honey....and sometimes even a hot bubble bath just to get relaxed...also the nature sounding cd's of oceans, or wind, and things like that puts me right now, i normally like to go with soft playing piano music or flute set very low.


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## jaymo (Oct 4, 2004)

i'd have to agree with the person who suggested sexual activity. i have also found having a snack before bed will zonk me out.


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## Cryozombie (Oct 4, 2004)

jaymo said:
			
		

> i'd have to agree with the person who suggested sexual activity. i have also found having a snack before bed will zonk me out.


Hmmm.  I wonder if prostitues could get away with prostitution if they sold their services as "Sleep Aids" as opposed to... 

Wait... what the heck am I thinkin...

:O


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## JPR (Oct 6, 2004)

Chamomile tea often works as a mild seditive, just don't add sugar.

Also try eating some turkey.  "There is a way to take advantage of the tryptophan in turkey. If you have trouble getting to sleep one night while there is still leftover turkey in the refrigerator, you could have a late snack of turkey and that, nutritionists say, might be the right amount of tryptophan on an empty stomach to help produce some serotonin."  from http://home.howstuffworks.com/question519.htm

JPR


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 16, 2004)

meditate on / resolve  whatever is keeping you up.BL


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## MikeMartial (Nov 17, 2004)

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> meditate on / resolve whatever is keeping you up.BL


Good advice, but easier said than done :asian:


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## TigerWoman (Nov 17, 2004)

1.  Stay away from all coffee!  tea or cola too!

Well, I learned a trick in my new yoga class.  We go into this corpse pose, love the name, on your back. Arms by your side, all comfy.  Then concentrate on your toes, relax your toes, then your arches, then, the tops of your feet, then your achilles then your calves, then your knees, going up one body part at a time. Anatomy 101. Really concentrate on willing your mind to release those muscles to just fall normally down with no tension whatsoever... and I lately, when I do decide to go to bed, I don't get past my stomach.  So, FWIW.  Mind control.  TW


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## sifu Adams (Nov 17, 2004)

I don't know about true Insomnia.  I think the doctors can give you meds for that.  Howerever I work night shift and what works for me is not to drink and pop, coffee, ect 4 hour pryor to bed.  also i use to use a Melatona.  you can find that at most stores with the erbal products.  that might help


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 17, 2004)

MikeMartial said:
			
		

> Good advice, but easier said than done :asian:


budong....I don't understand .  You just close your eyes , breathe deeply and listen to your thoughts for an hour or so a day until you get to the one that was troubling you most .  Then you pull it apart and find out how to permanently erradicate it from your life ...........  ( wispers "btw, this is usually a feeling "      :asian: ) and if you can't figure out permanently, just from that particular source is a great start. 

Amitopho ha


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## OUMoose (Nov 17, 2004)

How do I cure Insomnia?  Whiskey.  *nod*


Heh.  In all seriousness, I read somewhere a long time ago that if you lay in bed for over 30 minutes without falling asleep, you should get up and do something to distract yourself (like others have said).  Usually I'll get up and go over some email, read the news, toss a load of laundry in (funny how that never gets "done"), etc...  Most of the time, the next time I lay down I'm out like a light.


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## Adept (Nov 17, 2004)

Well, I'm sitting here at 05:30 and I havent even been to bed yet. And now it is going to be more efficient for me to stay up for another half hour and go for my morning run, and then try and slug it out for another 14 hours until I can go to sleep and hopefully get my sleep cycle back on track.

 I have this problem a lot. It isnt really insomnia, its simply a lack of sleep, coupled with the need for lots of sleep that sees me end up with truly obscure sleeping patterns. Sometimes I fall asleep at 04:00 and wake up at 14:00, only to not sleep at all for the next 48 hours. Extremely erratic.

 Heck, it's probably light enough to go for a run now.


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## Xequat (Nov 17, 2004)

The person that mentioned prayer had a good idea.  It doesn't have to be that, but if you have a routine that you do in your head religiously, pardon the pun, every night immediately before you go to bed (such as prayer, counting to 100, count sheep, whatever), then whenever you start to do that anytime, anywhere, you will theoretically tell your body that it's time to sleep...sort of a Pavlovian approach.  

Sex is usually a good one, too.

I recently heard that for blood and energy flow, sleeping with your head towards the equator can help you sleep better.  I happened to anyway, so I don't know, but maybe you could try that.  It's a feng shui thing.  Sounds a little hard to believe, but I certainly don't disbelieve it and it might explain why when I was little, I used to often end up with my head where my feet started.  Interesting stuff...let me know if you try that and it helps.


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## MikeMartial (Nov 18, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> I recently heard that for blood and energy flow, sleeping with your head towards the equator can help you sleep better. I happened to anyway, so I don't know, but maybe you could try that...when I was little, I used to often end up with my head where my feet started. Interesting stuff...let me know if you try that and it helps.


Funny you mention that.  Seems like when I come off a night shift, or actually have the bed to myself after the wife goes to work, I end up gradually facing that way.  Our bed faces west-east, with my head towards the west.  Somedays when I wake, my head is facing south :uhyeah:  Weird, but maybe there's something to it...


Actually just started trying melatonin again.  Seems to work well, but only for one,max two nights at a time.  Did 3 days in a row, and by the third, I was wide-eyed.  Anecdotal proof (for me), but at least something works a bit.


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## Paul B (Nov 18, 2004)

Tylenol PM works for me.....Wal Mart brand is better AND cheaper. What works best for me is to tire myself out by going nonstop all day. 

This is weird to see how many other people out there "think" themselves out of sleep.hmmmm...dan jon breathing or ibuki no ho works pretty good too. Forces you to *not* think about anything except breathing. 

I always get the "Whatsa matter? Can't sleep?" when I do this,though. I guess it annoys her. :lol:


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 19, 2004)

I sincerely empathise, and when I have serious issues that need resovling, I can not sleep more than an hour or 2 a night myself for weeks until I've sorted it out.  Sometimes, drugs just aren't the answer.


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## Rynocerous (Nov 21, 2004)

I agree with the wiskey thing, although it is not very healthy.  I had a hard time after coming back from deployment, and really depended on alcohol a lot to put me to sleep.  That was the case for about a year until I realized that I was starting to become an A-hole instead of the mellow person I used to be.  I find the the best way is if you can't sleep, lay there for an hour or so, then get up and make a snack. Preferabley a heavy snack because after a heavy meal you always feel tired.  Have a glass of tea with that then go lay back down.  I'm usually out like a light after that.  Like posted earlier I like to make a turkey sandwich on wheat bread(which is heavier than white, as well as healthier), lights out time.


Cheers,

Ryan


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## MikeMartial (Nov 21, 2004)

Alcohol used to work well for me---when I was in my 20's.  Now, if I have a few drinks, I'll wake up a few hours into sleep, and be hooped.  And that's not just me, there's studies to prove is messes up your sleep.

On the other hand, my mother, who is near 60, and drinks every night, sleeps like a baby.  Go figure. :idunno:


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## Blooming Lotus (Nov 22, 2004)

Rynocerous said:
			
		

> I agree with the wiskey thing, although it is not very healthy. I had a hard time after coming back from deployment, and really depended on alcohol a lot to put me to sleep. That was the case for about a year until I realized that I was starting to become an A-hole instead of the mellow person I used to be. I find the the best way is if you can't sleep, lay there for an hour or so, then get up and make a snack. Preferabley a heavy snack because after a heavy meal you always feel tired. Have a glass of tea with that then go lay back down. I'm usually out like a light after that. Like posted earlier I like to make a turkey sandwich on wheat bread(which is heavier than white, as well as healthier), lights out time.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


good points....A. alcohol is an effective band aid that will give you more problems than it sovles, and B.  protein will make you sleepy


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## raedyn (Nov 22, 2004)

Part of the solution might be making a ritual around sleep. Just like a toddler you know? They have a bath, brush their teeth, have a story with the lights turned low, then give kisses and go to bed. Your routine might be different, but the comfort and familiarity of the repetition (and the conditioning) can make a difference.

A few years ago, when I was regularly having trouble getting to sleep, someone suggested to me that it's important to make your bedroom a sleep-only zone. I found that moving the computer to a different part of the house, and making a habit of doing my homework elsewhere did make a difference. I think it's partly about changing the energy, kinda like changing gears. I can more easily leave all that stuff behind if I never bring it into the bedroom with me.


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## Erik (Nov 22, 2004)

Wake up early in the morning.  It's the only way I can make myself tired in the evening other than putting a lot of effort into relaxing when I go to sleep.  It's hard to keep the mind from wandering.


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## Kamaria Annina (Dec 7, 2004)

I know where you are coming from.  Lately I haven't been sleeping well either.  I've heard that if you turn your clock around and not look at the time, it helps them get to sleep easier, so they aren't _worried_ about trying to get on 'time'.


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## Ray (Jan 12, 2005)

When ever I have a problem falling asleep, I start a conversation with my wife.  She takes over the conversation and I'm sleeping in no time.  Unfortunately, she stays up all night, pissed that I started snoring in the middle of one of her sentences.


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 12, 2005)

Ray better hope his wife doesn't read this forum....

Anyway, I don't have a problem sleeping.  I watch a lot of b movies (mostly sci-fi stuff)...I have problems staying awake


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 14, 2005)

See?  Last night I watched Cybernator and had *no* problems falling asleep in the last 20 minutes


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## InvisibleFist (Mar 12, 2005)

There's a Chinese herb called Suan Zao Ren.  Its very helpful.  You can get it at any Chinese herb pharmacy.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jun 1, 2005)

There is some great advice here!

This may sound really stupid but when I was suffering from it roughly a year ago, I found it was due to the light level in my room! I know some of you cannot do this maybe because your colstrophobic (however you spell it) but try sleeping (if possible) in absolute darkness. Not only that make sure that you have all clocks faces turned away from you, so you cannot see any time at all, or maybe even hearing it could be bad, as it shows that simply seeing the time can trigger off emotional respondes in your body and make you panic or become exasperated.  
Then do what I believe Tigerwoman or somebody said about relaxing using the corpse position, or by imagining something like you being in a bubble (especially if you have problems with worries throughout the day) and you become enveloped in the bubble, and all the worries that you have bounce off the bubble when they try and get to you. Sounds stupid yeah I know, but it worked for me!


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