# What martial art should I pick



## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

So I wanna get into a martial art and I've been looking for schools in my city. I have the following options:

Pencak silat
Boxing
Muay thai
Karate wado and shotokan
Muay boran
Taekwondo
Judo

I don't know wich one to pick, because my untrained eye doesn't really see what's going on in tournament fights. I think karate and taekwondo are fun, but they are really similar to kickboxing.
I think muay thai and muay boran are too tough for me. My friend who practiced pencak told me that it was more about dancing. Judo seems really boring to me.

So I can't decide wich one to pick. I need a little help.
Wich one is the most effective? Wich one would be the most effective against a MMA fighter?
I know it all depends on the practitioner, but I do ask it.

Wich one will be the most effective in a tournament? 

Questions, questions. Feel free to answer them.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

Time for Me to have some fun.



datisstom said:


> So I wanna get into a martial art and I've been looking for schools in my city. I have the following options:
> 
> *Aha*
> 
> ...



To answer Your Questions, You must offer more Answers. 

EDIT 2: Now just dont start telling us Your size and such. I can pretty much predict what Youd say. Its irrelevant.
What do YOU prefer in terms of movement? Do You favor Striking? Grappling? Both? Wrestling? What looks most natural to You? And so on.


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## Jenna (Feb 11, 2012)

If you want to fight MMA then train whichever styles are most aligned with MMA.  To go some with an MMA practitioner, you will want to become proficient in both standing styles and ground styles (of which you have ample choice from the list you posted).  The advice of friends or anyone on here is well and good but I suggest you do a little research of your own by calling up and visiting the schools that you have listed.  If you like what you see and you get a good gut feeling then ask some relevant questions of the instructors related to your own ultimate goals.  This way you be armed with plenty information and will be better able to decide what ultimately suits you.  I wish you well.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

1. Does it really matter? 

2. Muay thai is with elbows and knees included, isn't that way more tougher than the others? 

3. It seems boring to me because here in Holland everyone does it. That's for a reason, right? Yes it is, but for me that's the reason I'm won't be doing it.

4. I don't know what tournaments, just all-round. 

Basicly the question is, what art is the most effective against other martial arts. And I know this question is wrong, but - wich one is the most effective against untrained fighters? Since that's one of the reasons I'm going to join a martial art school. It's not the most important thing, but I have some good options available, so why not pick one that would be the most helpfull?


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> 1. Does it really matter?
> 
> *Nope.*
> 
> ...


*nods

Go to their Outlets. Spectate or join in some Classes. Find the one You like most.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

With 'tough' I mean painfull. With that in mind, muay thai is way tougher  then karate or taekwondo, isn't it?


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> With 'tough' I mean painfull. With that in mind, muay thai is way tougher  then karate or taekwondo, isn't it?


My oh My.
No, it isnt.
Theyre about the same.
They can be poorly taught though. And a poorly taught anything will be weak.
You are a victim of Stereotype it seems.

As for Painful, not really either. Theyre all about the same.
If anything, Muay Thai spends more time on Bagwork from what Ive seen. Thats about it. And I wouldnt really call that a Plus, so much as a Trait.

I presume You think TKD is Kicking Based and Karate is all Striking? Just Curious.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> My oh My.
> No, it isnt.
> Theyre about the same.
> They can be poorly taught though. And a poorly taught anything will be weak.
> ...




Why am I a victim of sterotype?


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> Why am I a victim of sterotype?



Typical Stereotypes:
Muay Thai is the ultimate destructive art of death and doom.
Wing Chun is the one-beats-all crux of effectiveness.
Taekwondo is a Kick Sport.
Karate is only Strikes.
Kung Fu is a bunch of Monks who spend all day flipping around and stuff.
Ninjas are synonymous to Kung Fu.
MMA is the staple of effectiveness.
All fights go to the ground.

I could keep going.
I merely suggest cleaning Your Slate of conceptions, and inform Yourself from better sources, and draw new conclusions.


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## Gnarlie (Feb 11, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> *nods
> 
> Go to their Outlets. Spectate or join in some Classes. Find the one You like most.



Yarp.  I think you'll find that if you give up your preconceptions (which are mostly incorrect anyway) and try out some of these arts, you'll find that they are all pretty tough, and all of them will teach you something you don't already know.  You need to learn before you can analyse in this way.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Typical Stereotypes:
> Muay Thai is the ultimate destructive art of death and doom.
> Wing Chun is the one-beats-all crux of effectiveness.
> Taekwondo is a Kick Sport.
> ...



No, I did some research and I disagree with those statements. But isn't it clear muay thai is indeed the most destructive and effective 'on the street' ? I think without any rules, a karateke wouldn't stand a chance against a thai boxer. 

As I said before, one reason to join a MA school is to be able to defend myself. I am new in my current school and I get picked on by some jerks.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> No, I did some research and I disagree with those statements. But isn't it clear muay thai is indeed the most destructive and effective 'on the street' ? I think without any rules, a karateke wouldn't stand a chance against a thai boxer.
> 
> As I said before, one reason to join a MA school is to be able to defend myself. I am new in my current school and I get picked on by some jerks.



No, it is neither the most Destructive or Effective.
And Youre generalising Karate based on its Sport Gyms, which are about the only Archetypes with Rules.

Have fun with that.
Ive already explained things as best I can. Its clear You dont want to believe it, so I wont even bother to try.

Best of Luck.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> No, it is neither the most Destructive or Effective.
> And Youre generalising Karate based on its Sport Gyms, which are about the only Archetypes with Rules.
> 
> Have fun with that.
> ...



I am only trying to get you to give arguments... I didn't see any yet for the thai/karate discussion.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> I am only trying to get you to give arguments... I didn't see any yet for the thai/karate discussion.


Ah - Might I suggest iterating that in future? Always remember that text doesnt always read how you intend it to.

Ok:
Muay Thai has;
Striking and Clinching.
Punches, Kicks, Elbows, and Knees.
Favors Guard to Blocks.
Operates within Rule Based Sporting Bouts for Competition.
Has Great Conditioning.

Karate (Ill use Shotokan for an example here) has;
Striking, Clinching, Simple Ground Fighting, and Throws and Takedowns and Jointlocks.
Punches, Kicks, Elbows, Knees, Open Handed Strikes, Forearm Strikes, Leg Sweeps, and Pressure Applications.
Favors Blocks to Guard.
Has Rule Based Competitive Bouts, but isnt exactly Sporting.
Has Forms.
Has Great Conditioning.

Both Emphasise Power and Speed.
Shotokan has more in it, but ultimately tends to stick to its simple uses.
Muay Thai has less in it, and Trains its simple uses in the same way.

Conclusion:
Whats the difference?
Ones Japanese and ones Thai.
Itll be a matter of preference which works for YOU best.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks, that's very helpful. I didn't know karate had elbows and knees though. 

I am going to watch muay thai and karate training in my local MA school.
Too bad the TKD school only has hard ground gyms used for soccer and stuff.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> Thanks, that's very helpful. I didn't know karate had elbows and knees though.
> 
> I am going to watch muay thai and karate training in my local MA school.
> Too bad the TKD school only has hard ground gyms used for soccer and stuff.


Why would Training out of a Gym be a problem? The Building doesnt matter, so much as whats being done in it. And most Towns and Cities dont have enough Empty Lots for everyone to have a specialised Building.

Let alone the Group being able to afford a specialised building.

Taekwondo has Elbows and Knees as well, as does Silat.
Even the rare odd Boxing Gym with slip in Elbows just for Bag Work. Its uncommon, but its not unfathomable.


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## datisstom (Feb 11, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Why would Training out of a Gym be a problem? The Building doesnt matter, so much as whats being done in it. And most Towns and Cities dont have enough Empty Lots for everyone to have a specialised Building.
> 
> Let alone the Group being able to afford a specialised building.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's fun 'till ya fall on your head.  :S


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## Cyriacus (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> Yeah, it's fun 'till ya fall on your head.  :S


Aha - I did that once. It wasnt as bad as You think 

Its perhaps more realistic anyway - Since most Engagements will probably occur over Concrete Pavement in a City Locale.


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## Gnarlie (Feb 11, 2012)

My first 8 years were training on concrete and wood, and I turned out just fine thank you, Susan.  *Bleep*


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## oaktree (Feb 11, 2012)

Why dont you visit the schools and try it out.
  The forum will give you various opinions
And there is no right or wrong answer
Concerning which style to pick.
Choose what interest you.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> Thanks, that's very helpful. I didn't know karate had elbows and knees though.



Yeah, that's the problem.  You don't know what you don't know.  Not your bad; it's perfectly understandable.

Yes, karate has knees and elbows and lots of them.  And many other martial arts have facets that are not generally known outside of the students of those arts.

Perhaps the question has been asked and answered, but I did not see it.

What do you want to learn martial arts FOR?  In other words, do you seek self-defense training, or sport / tournament martial arts, or good exercise, or what?  All are good reasons, but it does help to pick an art sometimes.

What do you LIKE to do?  (I saw that asked but not the answer).   Do you enjoy rolling on the ground, high kicks, or hard punches?  What feels normal and natural to you?

As an example, I am 50 years old and started training at 46.  I am relatively short at 5' 10" and I'm heavy.  I do not have a lot of flexibility, but I can punch like a freight train and kick like a mule; but I can't kick very high.  Oh, I can front snap-kick you in the face, but I can't do the fancy TKD kicks; so my art, Isshin-Ryu karate, is perfect FOR ME.  It emphasizes exactly what I'm good at.  The question is, what are YOU good at?

In the end, the best art for anyone is the one they will keep training in.  If you try it and find you like it, and keep training in it and gain proficiency, then it is the 'best' art FOR YOU.

And really, no one else can tell you what that art might be.  We can offer suggestions or tell you what we like about our own arts, but one man's meat is another man's poison.  In the end, only you can know what's best for you.

Best of luck, and welcome to MT!


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## Chris Parker (Feb 11, 2012)

Right. I'm feeling grumpy, so this'll be blunt.

Datisstom. There is no 'ultimate' martial art. There is no martial art that is the best for 'the street', or similar. Mainly as it isn't the art, it's the quality of the instruction and the way it's taught and trained. Without having experience (and therefore understanding) of what at least one art features, in detail, then no answers given to you about what is or isn't in any martial art will be of any use to you whatsoever. At all. You may think they do, but that's only due to your lack of understanding of the way martial training actually works. It's not a preference of what you think you want to do (kicks, strikes, throws etc), as they are all just as equally powerful when done and trained properly. Forget that idea, as it's irrelevant. The only factor that has any relevance there is what you personally enjoy, which has no bearing on what is most effective.

Finally, there is no martial art in the world that will get you good enough to handle some "jerks at your new school" before you leave school and leave them behind. It's basically a fantasy that has no place in reality. If that's your reason for learning a martial art, don't. It won't do you any good. If you have other reasons, then visit as many schools around you as you can, and decide if they're a good fit for you personally.

In the end, we don't know you, we don't know what you like, we don't know your tastes and preferences, we don't know your physical make-up, we don't know your ability to get to local schools, we don't know your local schools or instructors. The decision will end up being yours, but this line of questioning has one of two possible outcomes. Either you're confused as you don't get what we're saying here, or you have a false sense of knowledge as you don't get what we're saying here. And the more you come in with your cup full, so to speak, with ideas of what you think the martial arts are about, and what is good for self defence or not (without knowing anything about what self defence actually is), the less likely you are to actually hear what's being said.

Visit schools. Make up your own mind. Then, if you have questions based on the visits, by all means, ask. But for now? There isn't anything there for any real answer to be made.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 11, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> There is no 'ultimate' martial art. There is no martial art that is the best for 'the street', or similar. Mainly as it isn't the art, it's the quality of the instruction and the way it's taught and trained.



+1 and QFT.  I'd like to add that it also has something to do with the aptitude of the student.  My instructors are awesome.  I am not, though I do my best.  Many of my fellow students are on the path to awesome, though.   So it can also depend on the student, I think.

If there was one 'best' martial art for ANYTHING, it would dominate; there would be almost nothing else.  Instead, what we have is a pastiche of artists who are very good at what they've been trained in, who demonstrate the superiority of good training and good studentship in those arts.  We regularly see Kung Fu stylists beat Karate stylists on Youtube; and vice-versa.  And any style you can name, plus some I frankly don't recognize despite having names I know.

Even MMA got a shake up after it was starting to look like BJJ was 'the' art for MMA style fighting when some karate stylists showed up and started knocking people out; but it didn't make karate superior for MMA; and BJJ still dominates.  But you cannot say that BJJ is superior for everything; those are a limited set of circumstances.  It's all good though; we all want to cheer for our styles and see champions in them win.

The biggest problem I've seen in with recent styles that were invented by people who were unqualified to teach in any style, let alone the one they made up.  I've seen a few at tournaments.  I feel sorry for their students.

As to competency...we have a young ni-dan in our dojo who has been training very hard since he was 13; he's now 21.  He can beat me sparring and he's MUCH better at me at kata, weapons, etc.  But I can knock him down and toss him around like a rag doll pretty much at will if I want to go tribal on him; and I've done it.  I outweigh him by over 100 pounds and I've got 30 years age on him.  Even though I have only four years of training to his many years, and my skill is not even close to his, there are some things that even martial arts training doesn't change.  If we for some reason fought 'for real', he'd have to beat me quickly, and he'd have to knock me out or otherwise incapacitate me, or I'd knock him through a wall.  That's kind of the way it is.  On the other hand, we have some 3rd-degree black belts in my dojo that I could not even lay a hand on unless they permitted it; they'd destroy me at ANYTHING.  So just keep this in mind.

Bottom line: find a recognized art, taught by an instructor with real credentials (and many of us can help you with that), and dedicate yourself to the training.  You may find that you do yourself a world of good for your entire lifetime; not just for the issues you see before you at this time.


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## Haakon (Feb 11, 2012)

datisstom said:


> So I wanna get into a martial art and I've been looking for schools in my city. I have the following options:
> 
> Pencak silat
> Boxing
> ...



Which one is closest to your home, or closest to your commute route? The reality is, few people will go far out of their way for training several times a week. If it's inconvenient to go, people will make excuses not to. If the most uber, elite, super defense academy is on the other side of town and you only go once every other week you're not going to get nearly as much out of it as the Judo school on the route home that you train at every day.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Feb 11, 2012)

You can take whatever Martial Art system that your heart desires. It's best to take up Muay-Thai if you want to compete against MMA practitioners. Muay Thai is meant to go against an evenly skilled fighter.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 11, 2012)

Black Belt Jedi said:


> You can take whatever Martial Art system that your heart desires. It's best to take up Muay-Thai if you want to compete against MMA practitioners. Muay Thai is meant to go against an evenly skilled fighter.



That's some seriously bad advice right there.


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## datisstom (Feb 13, 2012)

Today I visited a great MA school and saw some kids doing karate. I made an appointment for tomorrow to train along with the others @ muay thai.
Tonight I looked up the prices and they ask 400 euros a year! That's financially not possible for us, so I'll have to go with another school. 
The pricy school was very close, it had it's own building and very good instructors. It's a shame..


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## Haakon (Feb 13, 2012)

400 euros / year sounds really cheap, I pay almost 3x that now. I havent paid the equilivant of $44 /month since the 1980's.


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## datisstom (Feb 13, 2012)

Well the other MA schools here cost around 100 E a year.

edit: I can understand the difference though. The pricey one has a specialised building and everything looks really nice. The lessons are really good as well, the Dutch youth champion muay thai trains there.

The cheap one rents a big hall twice a week, and the teachers don't even wear white karate suits (don't know their name). It al looks very amateuristic. I'm not a spoilt brat but I have my doubts about the quality of the lessons.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 13, 2012)

datisstom said:


> Well the other MA schools here cost around 100 E a year.
> 
> edit: I can understand the difference though. The pricey one has a specialised building and everything looks really nice. The lessons are really good as well, the Dutch youth champion muay thai trains there.
> 
> The cheap one rents a big hall twice a week, and the teachers don't even wear white karate suits (don't know their name). It al looks very amateuristic. I'm not a spoilt brat but I have my doubts about the quality of the lessons.


GIs. Theyre called GIs.

One thing: Not wearing uniforms doesnt make them amateurs.
Being too soft, might.
And if it 'feels' laid back, it probably is.
So You may be on the right track to swerve clear.
Them renting a hall is irrelevant though.


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## datisstom (Mar 18, 2012)

I've chosen wado ryu karate. I follow 3 classes a week.


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## datisstom (Mar 21, 2012)

On monday, after training, a student said he wanted to compete in some tournament. The teacher and the student talked about it a bit, and the teacher said that the first time he would get his *** kicked because the school isn't a competition-school. This seems weird to me, because if it isn't a competition school, what is it?


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## Instructor (Mar 21, 2012)

It's difficult to say without having been a part of the whole conversation.  I do not want to slight your teacher.  Perhaps he simply meant that they focus on traditional martial arts training and not on tournement training.  You will learn that their is a difference between Martial arts and Martial Sports.


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## Chris Parker (Mar 21, 2012)

datisstom said:


> I've chosen wado ryu karate. I follow 3 classes a week.



Cool, I hope you enjoy it there!



datisstom said:


> On monday, after training, a student said he wanted to compete in some tournament. The teacher and the student talked about it a bit, and the teacher said that the first time he would get his *** kicked because the school isn't a competition-school. This seems weird to me, because if it isn't a competition school, what is it?



Ha, me being me, I'd say it's a martial art school... 

A little less flippantly, not all martial arts even have a competitive side to them, so it then follows that not all schools have a competitive training focus or aspect. Some arts are virtually impossible to do without that competitive form (Kendo, for instance), some consider competition to be completely anathema to their training ideals (many traditional arts are that way, and I agree with that approach myself), and then you have arts which may or may not have a competitive form, and the focus will be dependant on the individual instructor/organisation/dojo itself. Assuming, or even thinking that all martial arts are the same, have the same focus, beliefs, ideals, or anything else, can be a mistake.

Realistically, there not being a competitive focus only really means anything if you were looking for a competition experience, and wanted a dojo that catered to that. If not, there's no issue.


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