# Wing Chun to Taijiquan



## Tommy (Nov 24, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I' ve read many posts here in the past couple weeks and i have learned a lot about the practice of taiji and qigong. Well, my journey into CMA started 13 yrs ago. When I lived in Los Angeles, I had an opportunity to study Chen taiji with a very good sifu but I ended up with Wing Chun with a well known sifu in the Wong Shun Leung system. Now as i get older I wanted to study taiji but there aren't any traditional yang taiji in my area (st. louis) so I decided to go for CMC style.

Although I have never formally study taiji, I have been learning and practicing Santi Shi and Zhan Zhuang everyday for a few years now. and I do believe that beside apply Yang Cheng-fu's ten essentials when doing the first parts of Siu Nim Tau (which should takes about 20 min or more) and practicing Santi Shi everyday will tremendously further anyone wing chun skills.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 29, 2010)

Welcome to MT

And I agree


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## LiamBoyle (Nov 29, 2010)

Tom Krapu maintains a list of St. Louis Tai Chi classes on his website:  http://www.krapu4.com/taichi/classlist.htm

I've talked to him a few times, seems like a really nice guy, and he does have a valid CMC lineage.


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## Tommy (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks Liam,

I 've not talk to Tom but yes, I will start CMC Taiji with his association in 02/2011. His lineage is through Ben Lo which is a student of the late professor Cheng Man Ching.


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## LiamBoyle (Nov 29, 2010)

For independent study while you are waiting to start, Terry Dunn's "T'ai Chi for Health:  Yang Short Form" DVD is pretty good, and you can't go wrong with picking up a copy of "Cheng Tzu's Thirteen Treatises on T'ai Chi Ch'uan" by Professor Cheng translated by Ben Lo and Martin Inn.

I have a lot of written material on CMC style taiji in the form of various .pdf and .doc files, if you are interested just PM me if you are.  I actually call Bill Phillips, of Patience T'ai Chi in NY, Sifu.  I've only briefly talked with Tom through an email list we are both on.


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## Tommy (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks for the video recommendation. I got that video and the one from Tricia Yu from the library. I will use them as a supplements to the teacher. I bought that book and among others too. It's one of a great book by the Professor. You mind if I ask your reason for choosing CMC style.

I heard of Bill Phillips and I went to his website and other CMC style's teachers as well. As for me I don't know who will be my teacher yet since I am going to learn from the association and there are more than one teacher there at a time. But as long as the instructions are good and is approved by Ben Lo, that's all it matter.


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## LiamBoyle (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy said:


> You mind if I ask your reason for choosing CMC style.



Ok, here's where I may very well get some other folks' hackles up.  A little over two years ago, I decided I wanted to learn taijiquan.  At the time, neither my schedule nor my finances allowed me to take formal lessons.  I picked of a Yang Long form DVD, and started researching taiji on the internet, joining a particular all styles email group for taiji.  Now, my predominant reason for studying taiji is not the martial aspect, but the health and philosophical aspects.  I received a bit of hassling over learning taiji from DVDs and books, but in the course of the argument that ensued I apparently impressed a gentleman who runs a CMC style only email group (where I met Mr. Krapu).  I picked up the DVD I recommended to you and learned the CMC form from that.

These days I work with Sifu Phillips through video correspondence to receive correction on my form, and learn more about taiji with the hopes of being able to go to NYC and test for instructor certification.  Not that I am ready for such a step in my own practice but it is a goal I am working towards.

Since I do study independently my progress is much slower than if I were taking formal lessons, but this is a system that works for me.  This system of learning has waking up well before sunrise to work on forms and training, doing constant reading and research to learn the principles contained in the taiji classics, and making taiji training as much a part of my everyday life as breathing.  It is not a path I would recommend to others, but it is how I study and learn.  Even were I to receive instructor certification today, I would not even dream of taking the title of "Sifu" for myself, merely "Shixiong" - older brother student.


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## Tommy (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks for your honest answer Liam.

If that's your situation I guest that's all you can do, and if it's works for you that's all matter. But I think where you will fall short is having partners to practice push-hand (sensing). Wing Chun has a similar practice called Chi Sau, and without it there's no wing chun. You see, wing chun is similar to Taiji in that it's a sensing arts (my term) and this takes years with different partners to practice and mastered.  I think learning Taiji forms is easy but the learning the internal intricacies are hard, and to correctly follow Yang Cheng-Fu guidelines (Yang styles) is harder without a competent Sifu. 

For me although I have been practicing wing chun for 13 years but I had only with my sifu for 2.5 years including a year with private lessons. And, wing chun forms are much simple than Taiji and every now and then I still learn something new when doing the forms.

I think I have better luck than you since the CMC Association is 15 minutes from me. There are a few Taiji styles in my area and some of them have well known teachers. But I think since choosing Taiji as my secondary arts, i decided for something with less forms (not mean easier) and CMC style fit the description. One 37 postures, a sword form and push-hand is perfect. I think this is enough for me to practice for years.

This is a good forum for Taiji students. People likes Xue Sheng, and East Winds and many others are well versed in Taijiquan their advices are very valuable if one don't have a teacher.


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## LiamBoyle (Nov 30, 2010)

The lack of Push Hands practice is a major hindrance I face.  Developing certain taiji skills is almost impossible without it.  There are slower ways to develop skills such as stick, follow, and adhere though mental training which is where use of the Yiquan material comes in handy.  Sifu Phillips also introduced me to the concept of "push bus" when riding the city buses here.  It's a bit odd but basically one tries to use stick, follow, adhere, void, and neutralize to remain vertical while standing on a moving city bus.  Not that such an activity can replace push hands, but it is a fun way to use taiji skills in real life.  Mark Peters of the UK's Kai Ming Association for T'ai Chi Ch'uan has mentioned he does some "wall pushing" exercises, but I haven't been able to get any more specific information out of him about that.


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## Devlin76 (Dec 15, 2010)

Good luck Tommy.  It sounds like you have an excellent opportunity to learn Taijiquan from some good teachers.


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## AidanO (Jan 16, 2011)

Well I learnt Wing Chun a few years ago (about ten) while I was in the beginning of learning Taiji. Fortunately (for me) I really gelled with Taiji more than I did with Wing Chun and have been learning ever since. However they're both good and complementary arts.


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## East Winds (Jan 16, 2011)

There really is no substitute for a teacher when dealing with push hands. And I believe that without push hands you are missing the opportunity to learn to use the Jins of Taijiquan. In other words the whole essence of Taijiquan. 

However if you really do not have accesss to a teacher, there is an exercise that can be useful for solo training. Here it is






Very best wishes with your training


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## mograph (Jan 16, 2011)

It's really hard to learn how to sense without any feedback from a partner. You don't need a tai chi expert for that, just a willing partner who has an open mind. Just try single hand, matching movements, start slow, keep the movements smooth and rounded, feel like a springy ball and turn the partner away before he gets a chance to squeeze your hand into your chest. And try it with eyes closed sometimes.

Once you get going, it can be a lot of fun, as if you are two kids messing around just before the parents tell you to be quiet and go to sleep!


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