# Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?



## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2011)

> Besides a handful of national holidays, the typical American worker bee  gets two or three precious weeks off out of a whole year to relax and  see the world -- much less than what people in many other countries  receive.





> Nancy Schimkat, an American who lives in Weinheim, Germany, said her  German husband, an engineer, gets six weeks of paid vacation a year,  plus national holidays -- the norm. His company makes sure he takes all  of it.
> It's typical for Germans to take off three consecutive  weeks in August when "most of the country kind of closes down," Schimkat  said. That's the time for big trips, perhaps to other parts of Europe,  or to Australia or North America. Germans might also book a ski holiday  in the winter and take a week off during Easter.





> Finland, Brazil and France are the champs, guaranteeing six weeks of time off.



http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/23/vacation.in.america/index.html?hpt=C2


I like that.  6 weeks of -paid- vacation.  I think I hear my old employer crying.


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

2 to 3 weeks in the US? WHERE?!
(around here it's 1 week mandatory by law...not even the holidays need to be paid...)

Yep, it's nice to have 6 weeks of vacation. It can get tough to schedule all of that in a year (and rollovers are frowned upon. There is a date by which you have to have taken your off days) 

As a contrast: Summer break in schools are only 6 weeks. But you get a couple in fall, 2 for Christmas and 2 or 3 for Easter....

The Us is just not a socialistic nation like Germany!


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## bushidomartialarts (May 23, 2011)

That just might be part of why we outproduced the rest of the world for the better part of a century.

Also worth noting that the countries that threaten our economic hegemony are the ones that have vacation traditions much like ours (Japan, Singapore, India, China).

Not saying YOU have to love it. God knows I'm a consciencious objector to that way of living -- but it seems to be a working model.


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

bushidomartialarts said:


> That just might be part of why we outproduced the rest of the world for the better part of a century.
> 
> Also worth noting that the countries that threaten our economic hegemony are the ones that have vacation traditions much like ours (Japan, Singapore, India, China).
> 
> Not saying YOU have to love it. God knows I'm a consciencious objector to that way of living -- but it seems to be a working model.



LOL, if you are talking about last century, please note that for well over 10 years combined any meaningful production ceased in Europe, actually far longer than that, considering the fallout of WWI and II.

And as one of the worlds largest nations it better damn well outproduce smaller countries with less resources.


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## Empty Hands (May 23, 2011)

bushidomartialarts said:


> That just might be part of why we outproduced the rest of the world for the better part of a century.



True, but wage growth has been stagnant in real terms for the bottom 4 quintiles since the 70's.  The benefits of that production aren't going to the worker bees.  Our Gini coefficient and quality of life index also compares unfavorably to nearly all of Europe.  All that hard work, and the benefits don't accrue to most of us.  Not that we have much choice if we want to keep our jobs, especially considering events since 2008.

What good is hard work if you don't profit from it?


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 23, 2011)

How is that working out for Europe though?
I have not been paying any attention to Europe, but I seem to be under the impression that there is some severe problems, especially in places like Greece.. I really do not have the desire to look up the countries, what they offer in terms of vacation, and how they are doing, but I really do not see anything going on in Europe that I would care to emulate.
I run my own business, so I can take as much or as little time off as I want, it just effects my bottom line if I have to pay someone else to do my work while I am gone.
my wife gets a couple weeks a year, but can take off time unpaid if she goes past her vacation time. Seems to me most people would say they dont have enough money to take 2 weeks of vacation somewhere, what are they going to do with 6?
I wonder as an employeer, why I would give 6 weeks of paid vacation to employees as well...

don't get me wrong... I am not saying its a bad thing... just not so sure it really matters at all here in America, and if it is even a good thing for Europe is all.


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## LuckyKBoxer (May 23, 2011)

http://money.msn.com/market-news/post.aspx?post=392e2342-f1d8-42e4-8b66-0c42b529ab8b&GT1=33002

this just popped up on my newsfeed..
funny..
I guess its working great for them LOL



> There's worry Greece will default on its debt. There's worry Italian debt will be downgraded. There's worry that elections in Spain and Germany will make it more difficult for the European Monetary Union to function. European stocks fell to their lowest levels since the end of March.


 
yes lets emulate these guys..:shrug:


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> How is that working out for Europe though?
> I have not been paying any attention to Europe, but I seem to be under the impression that there is some severe problems, especially in places like Greece.. I really do not have the desire to look up the countries, what they offer in terms of vacation, and how they are doing, but I really do not see anything going on in Europe that I would care to emulate.
> I run my own business, so I can take as much or as little time off as I want, it just effects my bottom line if I have to pay someone else to do my work while I am gone.
> my wife gets a couple weeks a year, but can take off time unpaid if she goes past her vacation time. Seems to me most people would say they dont have enough money to take 2 weeks of vacation somewhere, what are they going to do with 6?
> ...




Well, there have been studies that showed that taking at least 2 weeks in one block is beneficial to reduce build up stress. 3 is better.

Naturally, those 6 weeks come at a cost.  But they don't really have a choice now.  since it's law.

But since it is _paid _vacation time, you have enough money to take it. 
You don't have to travel, you can just sit home and watch TV...


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## Empty Hands (May 23, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> http://money.msn.com/market-news/post.aspx?post=392e2342-f1d8-42e4-8b66-0c42b529ab8b&GT1=33002this just popped up on my newsfeed..
> funny..
> I guess its working great for them LOL



Greece is a special case, and _our _debt is in danger of being downgraded.  California's already has, or at least they were about to.

Germany on the other hand is sitting pretty, with a very nice trade balance in their favor.  The UK is having trouble because their economy was based even more on faulty securities than ours was.  France is doing well, but does have structural unemployment issues.

Different places are different.  Vacation times seem to have little to do with it.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2011)

I enjoy several weeks of vacation each year.  Well...'enjoy' isn't quite the right word.
If by vacation you mean 'absence of work' yeah, when projects dry up, when the phone stops ringing, and when no one's being a wiener on any of the forums, I guess that's a 'vacation'.  But 'paid', not really.  Unless you count the passive income streams I have working as 'pay'.  But in the traditional idea of a 'paid vacation' which isn't where they pay you and you don't go to work like most folks think, but where you get paid to go somewhere else besides your couch....been a looong time since I had one of those.  

I am planning on taking Dec-Jan off this year though. Kinda. Sorta. 
You know, unless there are server issues, trouble tickets, emergency phone calls, or a wienie shows up and needs a roasting.   



As a worker, I'd love it though.  Mandated paid vacations.
As a businessman, and a 'less government = better' type....not so much, y'know?


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2011)

I blame the puritan work ethic no matter how unreasonable that might be

Hell they get more vacatin time in China than we get here and a standard 1.5 hour lunch to boot


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## crushing (May 23, 2011)

granfire said:


> And as one of the worlds largest nations it better damn well outproduce smaller countries with less resources.


 
I think he was talking about average worker productivity.

http://www.bls.gov/fls/#productivity
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

crushing said:


> I think he was talking about average worker productivity.
> 
> http://www.bls.gov/fls/#productivity
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml



Those statistics (and sources thee of  want to see...from personal experience the productivity isn't all that great....unless of course you got a boss like Honda)


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## billc (May 23, 2011)

I think that germans should take a lot of time off from work.  When Germans start working too hard they start looking at france and the rest of Europe in that funny way that makes everyone nervous.


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## Touch Of Death (May 23, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I enjoy several weeks of vacation each year.  Well...'enjoy' isn't quite the right word.
> If by vacation you mean 'absence of work' yeah, when projects dry up, when the phone stops ringing, and when no one's being a wiener on any of the forums, I guess that's a 'vacation'.  But 'paid', not really.  Unless you count the passive income streams I have working as 'pay'.  But in the traditional idea of a 'paid vacation' which isn't where they pay you and you don't go to work like most folks think, but where you get paid to go somewhere else besides your couch....been a looong time since I had one of those.
> 
> I am planning on taking Dec-Jan off this year though. Kinda. Sorta.
> ...



I work three twelves, back to back, a week. I get four days off every week; so, who needs a vacation?
Sean


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## Sukerkin (May 23, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> How is that working out for Europe though?
> I have not been paying any attention to Europe, but I seem to be under the impression that there is some severe problems, especially in places like Greece.




It is important not to be confused on this.  

The evisceration of the economies of Europe was not caused by decent working practices that treat the means of production as people rather than organic machines.  It was caused by the actions of 'fantastical' fiscal instruments, (the pebble of whose 'failure avalanche' started rolling in the USA) augmented by the globalisation of labour driven by the greed for unreasonable profit.


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## Empty Hands (May 23, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> I work three twelves, back to back, a week. I get four days off every week; so, who needs a vacation?
> Sean



I do!  I work 5 twelves with usually a few halves on the weekend, and I've been doing it for a year and a half with no more than a few days off in a row in that time.

I think that informs my agitation on this topic...


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## MA-Caver (May 23, 2011)

I'm gonna take a wild guess that other companies in other countries are able to do this for several reasons... 

1. they got lots of employees to take up the slack when one (or two) folks are gone for three weeks so there's no drop in production. 

2. they can afford to allow so much time off (with pay) because the CEO's aren't as *GREEDY* as American CEO's are... so there's no "cutting too deeply into their profit margin"  They keep as much profit to live comfortably nothing extravagant and their kids go to regular schools. 

3. The euros work a lot harder for a lot longer than Americans do in a typical week. Here in Chattanooga we had the new Volkswagen plant open up. Thousands of new jobs... and hundreds of turnovers each week. A guy I talked to was one of the first hired... said he was worked 10-12 hours a day (HARD) for 6 days straight and while the money was good (killer he said) doing that for 4-6 weeks straight had him exhausted by the month's end. That lots of people were staggering into the plant to clock in and then stagger back out 12 hours later.  Said that a lot of people come and go. He was one of them. 

Who knows... mebbe we've gotten too soft. I mean we sent a LOT of jobs overseas because it was cheaper for the companies and anything that is providing a low-overhead is gonna put more money into the pockets of the upper officers and stockholders.


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## Xue Sheng (May 23, 2011)

Just remembered this; General Electric went to a European model with its Engineers, I am not sure if it was for all staff or not. They now get 6 weeks of vacation and the one guy I talked to loves it but has no idea what to do with it and sometimes he just goes into work


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## bushidomartialarts (May 23, 2011)

There's also some groundbreaking work with occasional sabbaticals, flex time, Google's "20 percent" policy and similar ways of doing differently than the traditional US model.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> I'm gonna take a wild guess that other companies in other countries are able to do this for several reasons...
> 
> 1. they got lots of employees to take up the slack when one (or two) folks are gone for three weeks so there's no drop in production.
> 
> ...


No, mandated by law there.


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## K-man (May 23, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> _There's worry Greece will default on its debt. There's worry Italian debt will be downgraded. There's worry that elections in Spain and Germany will make it more difficult for the European Monetary Union to function. European stocks fell to their lowest levels since the end of March._
> 
> 
> Yes lets emulate these guys..:shrug:


POOF! I grant you your wish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Now you debt is as bad as the 'PIGS' (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain). 

You have two wishes left. Choose wisely Grasshopper! :asian:


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## David43515 (May 23, 2011)

I think Xue Sheng hit the nail on the head. It`s just the old Puritan work ethic. Idle hands are the devil`s playground.


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## Scott T (May 23, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> I work three twelves, back to back, a week. I get four days off every week; so, who needs a vacation?
> Sean


 
I can do you one better! I work a minimum of 5-10's per week, maximum of 7-10's. Hard schedule, but worth it.I only work 6-7 months of the year!

I have plenty of time for vacations! %-}

But then, I'm also not an American! :boing1:


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

LOL, the bread maker pulled 6-7 12-14 hour nights for the last several years...

It's interesting....


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## Scott T (May 23, 2011)

granfire said:


> LOL, the bread maker pulled 6-7 12-14 hour nights for the last several years...
> 
> It's interesting....


I could work more, but at the end of that time I'm ready to rip the heads off my coworkers and eat their innards. So it's beneficial for all involved for me  to get me-time and me-and-girlfriend time.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 23, 2011)

Scott T said:


> I could work more, but at the end of that time I'm ready to rip the heads off my coworkers and eat their innards. So it's beneficial for all involved for me  to get me-time and me-and-girlfriend time.


I can relate.


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

Scott T said:


> I could work more, but at the end of that time I'm ready to rip the heads off my coworkers and eat their innards. So it's beneficial for all involved for me  to get me-time and me-and-girlfriend time.



Ah, yes, the 'Grizzly woke too early from hibernation' moments....
yep, got plenty of those...


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## Scott T (May 23, 2011)

granfire said:


> Ah, yes, the 'Grizzly woke too early from hibernation' moments....
> yep, got plenty of those...


 Ya know, if you saw a picture of me you would... nah, you wouldn't change a damn thing in that post.


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## granfire (May 23, 2011)

Scott T said:


> Ya know, if you saw a picture of me you would... nah, you wouldn't change a damn thing in that post.



lol!


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## Bruno@MT (May 24, 2011)

K-man said:


> POOF! I grant you your wish!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're cherry picking.

Most western European countries have a lot of paid holidays. You're just picking the ones who are in trouble to make a false point, ignoring the ones who are not in trouble yet still have the same holiday system. Most of the countries you mentiond were tipped over by the credit crisis (you know, the one triggered by the US), in which they lost gianormous amounts of money. Paid holidays don't really figure into it.

More holidays -> less stress -> more productive employees.
I have 32 days + some national holidays (if they happen in the weekend you can take them on another day) + 4 days per year which my company grants extra.
That works out to about 7 weeks per year. Meaning I have enough days to take a summer holiday, work on my house and take care of the kids when they are sick / school is closed.

I have to say the rich in the US did a tremendous job of convincing the poor and middle class they should slave themselves for meagre wages, with the feeble hope that if they ever got rich too, they'd have their own slave gang working for them 
Work harder! your CEO needs a helipad to his holiday home in vermont and another multimillion bonus.

Like George Carlin said: in America, the rich use the poor to scare the middle class into showing up for those jobs.


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