# Need help with a technique: The lead (non spinning) back fist



## chrissyp (Dec 6, 2017)

hi there,
I was wondering if someone could give me some pointers in using the lead back fist (non spinning)...one thing i'm wondering is, how do I get the most power out of it? From what i find, if i'm about 45 degrees off from my opponent, i can use it at times instead of a traditional boxing jab, with my power coming from the angle, and co rotation of my hips and extention of the arm at the same time. 

What are some good ways to set it up, and what are some get set ups you can use with it? I'm trying to think out side of the boxing with my striking, and I have seen this technique KO people from odd angles. I just wonder why you don't see it more often?


----------



## Danny T (Dec 6, 2017)

Study Muhammad Ali's backfisting jab.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 6, 2017)

chrissyp said:


> What are some good ways to set it up, ...


Throw a right hay-maker at your opponent's head. When he dodges under your arm, you change your right hay-maker into a right back fist and hit on top of his head. If you then follow with an uppercut, that will be a good combo. 

horizontal -> downward -> upward


----------



## DaveB (Dec 11, 2017)

You shouldn't need to be 45d from your opponent. 
You can get power and reach by twisting the hips in opposition to the arc of the forearm, but you need to make sure your elbow is pointing to his centre line.

In competition the backfist often countered the reverse punch to the body. Against a right hand punch, parry the punch with your left and execute a right backfist over the top to his left temple.

There's also the meals on wheels fake out. Raise the elbow in a backfist chamber to illicit a response. Pause but keep the chamber high and then snap out the punch as he starts moving. Only works if you can sell the chamber action as a strike.

Use zonal striking. I.e. strike distinctly different areas with large power shots to move the focus of his defence around, then when his head is open snap a light fast snapping backfist and hopefully the shift from heavy to light will catch him out.

Use any excuse to get your elbow into the chamber position then snap out the backfist after he starts moving with a bigger movement.


----------



## drop bear (Dec 11, 2017)

I have traditionally hated the back fist. But have been playing with it a bit successfully when people fence their hands out towards me.

I will throw a left hook at their lead hand which puts my hand inside their guard. Step out to the right to get a bit of time and space away from their cross and then cave man style hammer fist them in the head.


----------



## Buka (Dec 11, 2017)

A backfist is a quicker jab, or, a_ quicker front hand strike than a jab_. Where you go from there is up to you. If a backfist isn't in your repertoire, you might want it to be and maybe should rethink the whole backfist scenario.

As for power, forget the backfist, it's not meant for, designed for, or in any way, shape or form, confused with, a power technique. It's a sting, nothing more.


----------



## DaveB (Dec 11, 2017)

Buka said:


> A backfist is a quicker jab, or, a_ quicker front hand strike than a jab_. Where you go from there is up to you. If a backfist isn't in your repertoire, you might want it to be and maybe should rethink the whole backfist scenario.
> 
> As for power, forget the backfist, it's not meant for, designed for, or in any way, or form, confused with, a power ý. It's a sting, nothing more.



The "power" is a function of its precision. 
Striking the temples, bridge of the nose or eye with the foreknuckles can create a bigger effect than the strength of the blow.


----------



## chrissyp (Dec 11, 2017)

Buka said:


> A backfist is a quicker jab, or, a_ quicker front hand strike than a jab_. Where you go from there is up to you. If a backfist isn't in your repertoire, you might want it to be and maybe should rethink the whole backfist scenario.
> 
> As for power, forget the backfist, it's not meant for, designed for, or in any way, shape or form, confused with, a power technique. It's a sting, nothing more.


Ty. i'm starting to see your point. I have seen it KO people. But I think I could use as an effective "jab" like weapon to work off different angles compared to the straight jab.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Dec 11, 2017)

chrissyp said:


> Ty. i'm starting to see your point. I have seen it KO people. But I think I could use as an effective "jab" like weapon to work off different angles compared to the straight jab.



That would be a rarity. The backfist is a speed strike, and while it can have a fair bit of impact, it's never going to have as much power as a jab, and certainly not as much as a reverse punch.


----------



## DanT (Dec 11, 2017)

Here is a common Shaolin combo I like to use:

Assuming you are in an Orthodox (left leg forward) stance:

1. Left Jab to head
2. Right Low Round Kick to leg
3. Put Right leg down in front of you so you are now fighting Southpaw (Right leg forward) 
4. Right backfist using maximum power (turn your hips) to head
5. Left Hook to head

Essentially, you are using your right backfist in the same manner as a Hook, followed by another Hook using your left hand.


----------



## Hanshi (Dec 12, 2017)

I teach the lead backfist like this: the strike always "leads" the forward lunge, step or "lean" and then snaps from the elbow.  Dangerous to move forward and then fire a backfist.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Dec 13, 2017)

The way I generate power for my backfist is to use power from my waist (not hips).  I either twist or sink depending on if the backfist is horizontal or vertical.  I don't think of it or use it as a jab.  For me I used it as a crushing or crashing blow. I think the martial arts system dictates how the backfist is used.  It's common for it to be used against the head but there are other less common was to use it, which are more effective uses of a backfist.


----------



## marques (Dec 13, 2017)

I use the back fist(s) to setup other techniques. They are good for blocking the opponent’s vision and for raising their hands. Then we can strike low because the way is open or even high because he can’t see it coming, or even move to a better angle.

Other use is if for some reason I end up with my back to the opponent at a distance, a back fist keep the opponent busy while I turn to my normal position. This could even KO since there is  more body rotation, speed... but it would be a gift and not the main objective.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Dec 13, 2017)

marques said:


> They are good for blocking the opponent’s vision and for raising their hands. Then he we can strike low because the way is open or even high because he can’t see it coming (ideally).


One of the reasons I don't like personally deal with technique.  The good thing is that many people I've come across this don't understand or use the backfist this way.  To me this would be worse than the spinning backfist.  Using it this way pretty much guarantees broken ribs and bruised organs.  Unfortunately most people (non martial artists) know the backfist as it was done by Bruce Lee.


----------



## marques (Dec 13, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> One of the reasons I don't like personally deal with technique.  The good thing is that many people I've come across this don't understand or use the backfist this way.


Most people I have come across doesn’t understand (or isn’t interested in) basics of martial arts tactique or strategy. For many, good training is sweating loads...


----------

