# Seagal, pre-Aikido



## Stickboxer (May 8, 2002)

I recently told someone how Steven Seagal earned a black belt in a traditional Karate style, one I believe that emphasized kicking, before he began training in Aikido. I've read it in several different, reliable magazines, but had since thrown them out. Am I dreaming?


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## Diablo (May 8, 2002)

This site states that "Seagal also holds black belt rank in kenjutsu, combat with the Japanese sword, and has trained in karate, judo, and jujitsu as well. "  However it doesn't say that he had a black belt in karate, just "trained" in it.  Hope this helps.

http://martialarts.about.com/library/weekly/aa081400.htm

It's all about connection.
Diablo


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## Bushido (Jun 11, 2002)

The way he kick in his movies, he's certainly not a blackbelt in karate.

-Bushido :samurai:


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## bah (Jun 23, 2002)

Seagal's kicks don't look karate because that is not where his kicks come from.  There are kicks in aikido and the guy that Seagal learned aikido the most from taught him how to kick in aikido.  Kicking and striking are very much part of O-sensei's aikido.  Just look at the book Budo.


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## Humble artist (Sep 5, 2002)

Seagal is 2nd.dan in karate (OK,I don´t know the style but you karate fellows probably know what it is if I mention that his teacher was master Fumio Demura-I hope I got the spelling right)
It may be more like a honorary rank though,I´m not sure.
I think he also holds the same rank in kenjutsu as previously mentioned (at least a black belt,and kenjutsu had an influence on aikido.Consider that aikido´s basic stance comes from kenjutsu)
He also studied various other arts.


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## arnisador (Sep 5, 2002)

Shito-ryu, I think?


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## RyuShiKan (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bah _
> 
> *Seagal's kicks don't look karate because that is not where his kicks come from.  There are kicks in aikido and the guy that Seagal learned aikido the most from taught him how to kick in aikido.  Kicking and striking are very much part of O-sensei's aikido.  Just look at the book Budo. *




Segal learned Aikido from his ex-father in law in Japan. 
The dojo is located in Osaka Japan and is still run by Segal's ex-wife.


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## RyuShiKan (Sep 5, 2002)

I also seem to remember reading something about him claiming to a Navy SEAL or some CIA operative which turned out to be a lie. 
Personally I don't trust anything Segal says or what I read about him.


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## Shinryu (Sep 5, 2002)

I think we should just ask him personally  or via his website :soapbox:


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## RyuShiKan (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Shinryu _
> 
> *I think we should just ask him personally  or via his website :soapbox: *




Do ya think the "Dali Lama" will grant us an audience?


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## Caine (Sep 5, 2002)

A little out of date but here`s his bio from the Aikido Journal encyclopedia

SEAGAL, STEVEN 
(b. c. 1951) 6th dan Aikikai. B. Detroit, Michigan. Aikido instructor and movie actor. After studying karate under Fumio Demura, began practice of aikido in the late 1960s or early 1970's at the Orange County Aikikai in California under Harry ISHISAKA. Received 1st dan from Koichi TOHEI in Orange County in the summer of 1974 and traveled to Japan shortly thereafter. Seagal separated from Tohei's organization and assumed direction of the AIKIKAI-HOMBU-affiliated Tenshin Aikido Dojo in Osaka which was owned by his Japanese wife's parents. He was rapidly promoted to 5th dan in consideration of his position as chief instructor of the dojo and was eventually awarded 6th dan. Currently, he operates a dojo in Hollywood, California. Seagal has starred in two successful feature films, Above the Law released in the U. S. in April 1988, and Hard to Kill in 1990, in which he has displayed aikido techniques. Tenshin Dojo, 8505 Santa Monica Blvd. , West Hollywood, CA 90029 USA (213)657-2266.


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## Shinryu (Sep 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Caine _
> 
> *A little out of date but here`s his bio from the Aikido Journal encyclopedia
> 
> ...



AikidoJournal.. yep that's a good source


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## Caine (Sep 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Shinryu _
> 
> *
> 
> AikidoJournal.. yep that's a good source *



Do I detect a note of sarcasm there? I am by no means allied to Stan Pranin, but I respect the lengths that he has gone to to research the history of Aikido and characters within it. Although I can`t speak for Stan. as with all things of this nature, I am sure it is still work in progress, if you have some different or more updated information, I am sure he would welcome it and add it. 

AJ is just one of a number of online resources for Aikido, they all have plus and minus points, they all have good and bad posters. IMHO it is better to read and filter out what I don`t need, rather than pooh pooh AJ or any of the others (e-budo, Aikiweb to mention a couple).


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## bah (Oct 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RyuShiKan _
> 
> *Segal learned Aikido from his ex-father in law in Japan.
> The dojo is located in Osaka Japan and is still run by Segal's ex-wife. *



While the Aikido Journal quote is a good one and your quote is correct in that he trained with his ex-wife's family, the guy who had the greatest influence on Seagal's aikido is Hiroshi Isoyama Shihan.  When Seagal was a teacher at the Tenshin Dojo in Osaka, Isoyama Shihan would come to the dojo and test Seagal's students and then teach Seagal one on one.  

If any of you know who Hiroshi Isoyama Shihan is, you would understand why Seagal's aikido is so respected, whether he is personally or not.  Seagal's aikido is real and very effective and very combat effective.  Isoyama Shihan learned directly from O-sensei as a child and was with him for about 10 years directly in Iwama.  Isoyama learned the very martial side of aikido with loads of atemi(both strikes and kicks), lots of kiai and a very direct style of movement that is short and sharp.  

When you watch Seagal, you are also seeing one of the great masters of aikido who spent many years of direct time training with O-sensei.  Only he and Saito Sensei spent many years of direct training with O-sensei after the war.  Not even O-sensei's own son spent much time with him.  Isoyama Shihan and the late Saito Shihan were the two direct disciples of O-sensei in Iwama.  Seagal received many direct training times with Isoyama Shihan.


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## 2maz (Nov 2, 2002)

Well, the aikido that mr. Seagal shows in his movies (wich is pretty much what I've seen from him) is not really close to the aikido that O´sensei practiced. Saito Sensei is without doubt the most respected student of O'sensei, and his aikido has pretty much been the landmark of the original aikido. And from what I've seen, Seagals aikido is quite different to say the least. And when I say different, I don't necessearily mean ineffective, just different.


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## bah (Nov 2, 2002)

Well, you may think they are much different but I can tell you that Saito Sensei and Isoyama Sensei were both training with O-sensei in Iwama at the same time.  Both in the late 40's and into the 50's.  Isoyama and Saito have very similar aikido.  Both learned the aikiken and aikijo.  And Isoyama Sensei gave this to Seagal Sensei.  I completely disagree with you that Seagal SEnsei's aikido is very different from O-sensei.  They look very similar to me.  Both are very martial.


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## 2maz (Nov 3, 2002)

As i said, from what I've seen... and that is practically all from the movies. I respect Isoyama Sensei and his aikido, don't get me wrong, but what Seagal displays in his films, seem like a crossdressing between aikido an wing chun. A lot of straight fast blows and blocks combined with a twist of akido techniques.

Perhaps you kan give me a couple of links where I can see Seagals aikido other than his hollywood film style?


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## Shinryu (Nov 3, 2002)

What style(s) did Seagal studied/learned?


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## arnisador (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 2maz _
> 
> *but what Seagal displays in his films, seem like a crossdressing between aikido an wing chun. A lot of straight fast blows and blocks combined with a twist of akido techniques. *



I have thought the same before.

One of his movies opens with a real aikido sequence in a dojo--was it Above the Law?


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## bah (Nov 3, 2002)

Here you guys go.  This is a great page for Seagal Stuff.  Find the Path Beyond Thought video about the middle of the way down and look at the links that say Introduction, Steven Seagal's Aikido Philosophy, etc.  

They really show his stuff.

http://www.craig-robertson.co.uk/wb...tyleid=2&sid=664aa9d0ebf1e04722559dedbf3df524


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## Beng*Chuan (Nov 3, 2002)

whats his martial arts background?


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## bah (Nov 3, 2002)

He has some karate background with Fumio Demura in Southern California.  His aikido began under Harry Ishisaka in Southern California.  Then he went to Japan and ran the Tenshin Dojo in Osaka.  There, he trained with many masters including: Tohei, Abe and Isoyama.  

Isoyama had the greatest influence on his aikido.  I asked him this question on his own website through one of the moderators who trains under him and he said that Isoyama had a huge influence on him.  

Here is what was said: 


* From my conversations with Jim Berkley, he told me that Isoyama Sensei use to go to Tenshin Dojo Osaka and conduct kyu test and dan testing for the members of the dojo. He also told me that Seagal Sensei was greatly influenced by Isoyama Sensei. A few years ago I had the opportunity to see Isoyama Sensei do a demo and he reminded me of Seagal Sensei greatly. From the way he perform Iriminage, to his posture, to the way he held his head. 
If anyone has access to any tapes of Isoyama you'll see what I mean. Seagal Sensei did a demo a few years ago in Japan and before his demo Isoyama Sensei demonstrated and you could see the influence clearly. I have heard that Isoyama Sensei's trained in Iwawa thats probably why you can see some Iwama style in Seagal Sensei. *


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## 2maz (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bah _
> 
> *Here you guys go.  This is a great page for Seagal Stuff.  Find the Path Beyond Thought video about the middle of the way down and look at the links that say Introduction, Steven Seagal's Aikido Philosophy, etc.
> 
> ...



Not much to see really. Very poor quality of the movies (those who didn't have broken links that is...). Anyone know of good quality movies?


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## CrushingFist (Nov 3, 2002)

what kind of aikido is seagal?


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## 2maz (Nov 3, 2002)

Did you even bother to read the thread?


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## bah (Nov 3, 2002)

2maz, have you seen the Path Beyond Thought?  That video tells you everything you need to know about Seagal's aikido.  Very direct, very heavy emphasis on irimi and atemi and cutting deflections.  Isoyama's old Iwama-style aikido is where that comes from.


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## CrushingFist (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bah _
> 
> *2maz, have you seen the Path Beyond Thought?  That video tells you everything you need to know about Seagal's aikido.  Very direct, very heavy emphasis on irimi and atemi and cutting deflections.  Isoyama's old Iwama-style aikido is where that comes from. *



Where can I find that?


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## CrushingFist (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by 2maz _
> 
> *Did you even bother to read the thread? *


actually i didn't, but thanks for being so straight up . :shrug:

he's aikikai then


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## bah (Nov 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by CrushingFist _
> 
> *actually i didn't, but thanks for being so straight up . :shrug:
> 
> he's aikikai then  *



Yes, he is 7th dan aikikai.  Go to www.stevenseagal.com and order the Path Beyond Thought there.


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## 2maz (Nov 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bah _
> 
> *2maz, have you seen the Path Beyond Thought?  That video tells you everything you need to know about Seagal's aikido.  Very direct, very heavy emphasis on irimi and atemi and cutting deflections.  Isoyama's old Iwama-style aikido is where that comes from. *



I just might buy the film then. Sounds like it's worth the money...


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