# What defines something as JKD?



## AlwaysTraining (Feb 13, 2006)

I've read some posts recently that seem to raise the same question over and over again (be it by intent or not), when is a particular approach to JKD called JKD?  Are there certain "things" that have to be present in ones JKD curriculum (spelling) in order for one to say that they do JKD?  

If there are any such things (range requirements, attributes, etc.), I wonder how one could say so when JKD is supposed to be the non-style MA?  It would seem to me that creating requirements for JKD wouldn't be in the spirit of Bruce Lee's concept.  To confining.

On the other hand, if there are no such things to define JKD, then how could one say they practice JKD?  How could one determine where a style ends (or street fighting for that matter) and where JKD begins?

How does one define JKD?


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## arnisador (Feb 13, 2006)

See also this thread:
*JKD: Minimum Curriculum?*


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## Flatlander (Feb 14, 2006)

Another good reference is Attributes vs. Technique Training.


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## Dancing Dragon (Apr 7, 2006)

Personally, I believe that the art of Jeet Kune Do fundamentally consists of:

*Fundamental Jun Fan Gung Fu Techniques:* (Western boxing, savate & thai kicks, wing chun trapping/parrying, etc.)

_plus_*

All the basic concepts of JKD:* (interception, 5 ways of attack, etc.)

_equals_

Standard pure Jeet Kune Do before modification.

Anything _less_ than those two ingredients then you're practicing something else. That's also why MMA is different than JKD because either they leave out the basic techniques or the emphasis of intercepting their opponent. 

Thusly I never claim to practice JKD because I modified it. But I say that it's my foundation that I changed and made my own.


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## yipman_sifu (Apr 13, 2006)

_In my opinion._ 

*JKD is Wing Chun in Bruce Lee's concepts.* If Bruce Lee continued training in Wing Chun, there would never be something called JKD, and if Gongsau Wong did not inspire the combat ideas to Bruce, this system would have not exist. That's what Jesse Glover said once in an interview with Sifu Peterson as I remember.

Or for detailed information check this.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Jeet+Kune+Do&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Jeet%20Kune%20Do


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## Robert Lee (Apr 14, 2006)

Bruce found limits in his W/C training  not long after he began to teach his gung fu in America.  American students were larger stronger and  The bigineing students had a street savy . He adapeted changes early Then As Jun fan changed He grew further away from W /C Then as he leaned more in change to what JKD was in development He grew even further away from W/c. But he did keep it as a core a foundation for his changes. Yes without his early years of W/C training Jun fan Or JKD would not have been around today  Any M/A has taken root from a begining art Then gone on to change a modifie structure. Or there would be so very few M/A styles ways out there. In a way all paths lead to the same door Its just the path that gets you there  that is different. AND Jun Fan while slight changes Then JKD with over changes Or even if you want to say More progessed changes of Jun Fan. It is clearly a different approuch Then just W / C alone.


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## yipman_sifu (Apr 14, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> Bruce found limits in his W/C training not long after he began to teach his gung fu in America. American students were larger stronger and The bigineing students had a street savy . He adapeted changes early Then As Jun fan changed He grew further away from W /C Then as he leaned more in change to what JKD was in development He grew even further away from W/c. But he did keep it as a core a foundation for his changes. Yes without his early years of W/C training Jun fan Or JKD would not have been around today Any M/A has taken root from a begining art Then gone on to change a modifie structure. Or there would be so very few M/A styles ways out there. In a way all paths lead to the same door Its just the path that gets you there that is different. AND Jun Fan while slight changes Then JKD with over changes Or even if you want to say More progessed changes of Jun Fan. It is clearly a different approuch Then just W / C alone.


 
Wing Chun was made to overcome stronger and bigger opponents, what a contradiction in your sayings?!. Gongsau Wong defeated bigger western opponents using only 3 chain punches in the first seconds in the Beimo contests. This included a challenge arranged by a reporter against a russian boxer that was at least 250lbs called Giko. Wong Shun-Leung defeated him in the first seconds and he chllenged many others and won. Wing chun is made for defeating such heavyweight opponents.


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## green meanie (Apr 14, 2006)

Although it can be argued that Bruce Lee's opinion of W/C might have been different if he had stayed in it and took his training further... the biggest fault he seemed to have with it was its being limited to one fighting range and the individual's need to get there, and once there, stay there.

When he came to the US and was exposed to Wrestling and Boxing, among other things, he started to question his ability to close the gap and get to an effective W/C fighting range and what he would do if he was unable to maintain it and was wrestled to the ground. The rest, as they say, is history.


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## Robert Lee (Apr 14, 2006)

yipman_sifu said:
			
		

> Wing Chun was made to overcome stronger and bigger opponents, what a contradiction in your sayings?!. Gongsau Wong defeated bigger western opponents using only 3 chain punches in the first seconds in the Beimo contests. This included a challenge arranged by a reporter against a russian boxer that was at least 250lbs called Giko. Wong Shun-Leung defeated him in the first seconds and he chllenged many others and won. Wing chun is made for defeating such heavyweight opponents.


You have to look at the aspect of the person performs. If a person grows good enough in performance of any art They can use the tools they use. Now Bruce was about 19 years old when he began to train with a few friends he had met. His size was near 5 7 in hieght. And about 120 pounds. Not a large person compared to The average american . Now he had a bout 5 years training in W/C at that time Sure he could put together a training and fighting aspect. But aginst larger stronger people He did find looking out side the box Changing certion areas of training enhanced his performance. no two people think or act alike. What one person does is that person. W/C has some valid points to its training But it like other arts has its holes in performance. Bruce discovered his did .And worked on repairing those holes by adapting different needs. And modified or deleted Several methods of W/C  While W/C is supposed to be able to deal with larger stronger people. A person has to test what they can do. Bruce found what he new needed improvement . But agin Its not about what Anybody does it about how well they ened up doing it.


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## yipman_sifu (Apr 15, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> You have to look at the aspect of the person performs. If a person grows good enough in performance of any art They can use the tools they use. Now Bruce was about 19 years old when he began to train with a few friends he had met. His size was near 5 7 in hieght. And about 120 pounds. Not a large person compared to The average american . Now he had a bout 5 years training in W/C at that time Sure he could put together a training and fighting aspect. But aginst larger stronger people He did find looking out side the box Changing certion areas of training enhanced his performance. no two people think or act alike. What one person does is that person. W/C has some valid points to its training But it like other arts has its holes in performance. Bruce discovered his did .And worked on repairing those holes by adapting different needs. And modified or deleted Several methods of W/C While W/C is supposed to be able to deal with larger stronger people. A person has to test what they can do. Bruce found what he new needed improvement . But agin Its not about what Anybody does it about how well they ened up doing it.


 
Bruce did not find holes in Wing Chun, he continued training in different arts, that's why he developed different moves in his JKD. Bruce only learned the first two forms of Wing chun Sui Lim Tao and Chum Kui, + some Chi Sao drills. I want to say that his training level in Wing Chun didn't allowed him to judge what were the holes in the system, Wing chun is much more better than a 19 years old kid to judge its weakness. 
Anyhow, Bruce Lee's JKD is an excellent system, of course there is no real JKD, but still its concepts are very effective for the street combat. I said street combat because I don't beleive in Rings and UFC and all of this nonsence.


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## Robert Lee (Apr 15, 2006)

Sure training Wing Chun training can improve a person. But its not the answer. Look at Boxing its called boxing people do not go to different boxing styles to learn they have certion common aspects of boxing. From there each person develops there skill. M/A same way but it has given names called styles. A martial art be it from any country is and was a method created for fighting aspects both in unarmed or armed fighting. The person trained and that could use it did not have a name for what they did they just used and did what they did. Some better then others So we could say Gung Fu is gung Fu Karate is karate Judo is Judo And so on how you train in that division people call style seperates methods Just as trainers for boxers. Some trainers bring out better performers. Why because they can put together a better way of bringing out stronger desire and independence to there fighters Not that there fighters fight so different. they have learned to perform better with what they have in the tool box. Just a low stances are not as effective on level ground or high stances on hilly rough ground. A person has to use and adapt to there given need at that time. that need is not found in style but in understanding what you can do just as stance you have a base fighting structure from ther every movement is fluid postion action then regroup back to key position. Break it down to step action this stance then that is it fluid or fixed position. No you have set a position. Now recomend it as a exacuted movement its not seperated action better understood. So agin its the instruction of verbal and demonstrated action translated well to the person Then when they perform they do So is style method of delivery Yes in a way As most all attack and defence are just varied different delivery options How you train becomes your method of useing the same body weapons. Does somebody have a better method of learning yes or there would not be so many so called styles out there So Wing Chun instructed by one person may not be as useful then that instructed by a different person. Because the instructor is a trainer a guide no different then A JKD instructor how it is tranlated how it is asorbed by the students represents its usefuleness in the end its not style but method of training​


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## Rook (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, to a certain extent there are different "styles" even within narrow, specialized arts like boxing.  The tight punches of Americans, versus the somewhat looser of most Mexican and south American, versus the much looser, wider strikes of Eastern European boxers.  There are alot of variation even within American boxing styles - watch Ali Frasier 3 (Manila) or Ali Foreman 1 (Kinshasa) and compare the different approaches to attack Ali, and compare that to, say, the Rock or Joe Louis or Tyson.  Lots of variation.


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## Robert Lee (Apr 15, 2006)

Rook said:
			
		

> Well, to a certain extent there are different "styles" even within narrow, specialized arts like boxing. The tight punches of Americans, versus the somewhat looser of most Mexican and south American, versus the much looser, wider strikes of Eastern European boxers. There are alot of variation even within American boxing styles - watch Ali Frasier 3 (Manila) or Ali Foreman 1 (Kinshasa) and compare the different approaches to attack Ali, and compare that to, say, the Rock or Joe Louis or Tyson. Lots of variation.


 True but thats method how they trained And that is all that syle really means is a certion training method to do the same thing often. And boxing it has less tools but so many ways they are used. I think boxing compares to some of the best hand strikes out there Sure an M/A trains hands different but a good boxer aginst an M/A person useing only hand application in the ring on the streets Not many M/A people will hold up to what boxing can do that said its not how many tools are in the tool box its how well you can use the ones you have.


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## DeLamar.J (Apr 18, 2006)

AlwaysTraining said:
			
		

> I've read some posts recently that seem to raise the same question over and over again (be it by intent or not), when is a particular approach to JKD called JKD? Are there certain "things" that have to be present in ones JKD curriculum (spelling) in order for one to say that they do JKD?
> 
> If there are any such things (range requirements, attributes, etc.), I wonder how one could say so when JKD is supposed to be the non-style MA? It would seem to me that creating requirements for JKD wouldn't be in the spirit of Bruce Lee's concept. To confining.
> 
> ...


There are two forms of JKD. The JKD philosophy, and the JKD techniques+philosophy.


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## Rook (May 24, 2006)

yipman_sifu said:
			
		

> Bruce did not find holes in Wing Chun,


 
Bruce said many times that he thought WC had deficiencies - he added alot of other stuff but retained his WC skills, which should give you a good idea of what he thought of it



> he continued training in different arts, that's why he developed different moves in his JKD. Bruce only learned the first two forms of Wing chun Sui Lim Tao and Chum Kui, + some Chi Sao drills. I want to say that his training level in Wing Chun didn't allowed him to judge what were the holes in the system,


 
He had seen all of Wing Chung, he just wasn't able to do it himself yet.  The parts that he did he was exceptionally good at and even Yip Man and Wong Shun Leung gave him that.  



> Wing chun is much more better than a 19 years old kid to judge its weakness.


 
Bruce saw some parts of the art as not being sufficient for his needs.  



> Anyhow, Bruce Lee's JKD is an excellent system, of course there is no real JKD, but still its concepts are very effective for the street combat. I said street combat because I don't beleive in Rings and UFC and all of this nonsence.


 
Lee prepared to fight in the street, not in the ring, but he also talked alot about the necessity of testing skills to see how well they worked.


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## monkey (May 24, 2006)

Jeet kune do the way of the intercepting first.No we did not have savate-Jkd intercpts & destroys.The wing chun base was often thrown out as it had to adhear to the princaple of wing chun- this is why epie was the formost,Look at the epie player.the bijong came from the on guard from power forward attacks.The epie attacks low to high In & out quick entry & retreat.This gave Bruce the chance to log in Chinese the actions we called push shuffle-step & slide-burst or A.K.A  sudden step & the drop heal to respon to echo.For those who keep refering to the concepts Jkd was Intercepting!This means if you step to me my longest wepon my side kick takes out you knee.In Savate the front shansay they lay hands behind the body as the weight of the gloves tend to ballace them.We dont were gloves in Street so no savate.I dont know or speak french well but the art I do know of & how its depployed ever the quiccuba I beleave or sound out & youll get the word I mean to say.Jkd is scientific-non telegraphic & simplistic with a hint of self exsploring.Not found in savate.


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## Robert Lee (May 25, 2006)

If the training comes from one of the 3 pahases of either seattle ,oakland  and LA  Then you could consider that training JKD LA being the final phase where JKD evolved you see it being further away from the core ,which the core being Wing chun But each phase has value of JKD some being heavyer on Jun fan, With Jkd out come   But then you have to be JKD your self it comes from you after you have the training. That is how you do your JKD It is not the this and that then named as JKD if it has no root to the source  But thats another story because so much politics have been put into the JKD name any more And different people recieved a different piece of the pie when they trained Depending on how Bruce felt he would go about training them. Because he was also growing in his JKD method


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## Calm Intention (May 26, 2006)

Unbound, Adaptable, Effective relative to the circumstances at hand(hence the 'be like water'  and 'adaptable'  references we have here)- and no division between thought and motion/movement, and those same circumstances-- all as 'one'.

*I once thought that even in J.K.D.,  'body type'  will effect approach to situation at hand(and environment too-- the surface you're standing on, like slick,  rocky, whatever).


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