# Why don't you see catch wrestling in MMA?



## moonhill99 (May 14, 2016)

Why lack of catch wrestling in MMA these days? Is catch wrestling not popular like it was in past?

Where Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling more popular in MMA  these days.  Where catch wrestling does have take downs and ground work but not that good the take downs?


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## Tony Dismukes (May 14, 2016)

There are catch wrestlers in MMA. The most successful so far are probably Josh Barnett and Sakuraba. You don't see as many catch wrestlers as freestyle/Greco-Roman just because there are a lot fewer qualified people out there to teach the art.


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## Tez3 (May 16, 2016)

You do. You just aren't looking properly.


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## moonhill99 (May 16, 2016)

Well is this because Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling have better take downs than catch wrestling? Than is why there lack of qualified people or not enough people into it now days?


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## drop bear (May 16, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Well is this because Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling have better take downs than catch wrestling? Than is why there lack of qualified people or not enough people into it now days?



No there is more money and prestige in freestyle. So better fightets do it.


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## Langenschwert (May 16, 2016)

There are more CACC folks in MMA each year, but it's a relatively small art. Give it some time. Let's not forget Shootfighting in Japan too.


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## Steve (May 16, 2016)

Catch wrestling is just BJJ done by grumpy people.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 16, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Well is this because Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling have better take downs than catch wrestling? Than is why there lack of qualified people or not enough people into it now days?


It's because Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling are widespread sports with millions of participants around the world. Just in the U.S. alone there are over 250,000 participants in high school wrestling each year. That's a huge talent pool to draw from.

In contrast, catch wrestling is almost non-existent as a mainstream sport. Freestyle wrestling is basically catch wrestling with the submissions taken out. Some years ago the mainstream of amateur wrestling went down the path of grappling without submissions. Some catch wrestlers went into professional (I.e. scripted for entertainment) wrestling. Others taught in relative obscurity. It's making a bit of a comeback now with the renewed interest in submission grappling due to MMA and BJJ, but there just aren't enough qualified instructors yet for the numbers to be very high.


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2016)

We have far more catch wrestling than we do freestyle or Greco-Roman neither of which caught on here to the extent it did in other countries. Catch was developed in the UK back in the 19th century and is still taught in many places. Increasingly over the past few years MMA gyms and coaches have been bringing in catch wrestling coaching.


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## drop bear (May 17, 2016)

Steve said:


> Catch wrestling is just BJJ done by grumpy people.



Bjj is an exelent drill for catch wrestlers.


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## Tez3 (May 17, 2016)

History  |  The Snake Pit Wigan – Home of Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling | www.snakepitwigan.com


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## moonhill99 (May 18, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> It's because Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling are widespread sports with millions of participants around the world. Just in the U.S. alone there are over 250,000 participants in high school wrestling each year. That's a huge talent pool to draw from.
> 
> In contrast, catch wrestling is almost non-existent as a mainstream sport. Freestyle wrestling is basically catch wrestling with the submissions taken out. Some years ago the mainstream of amateur wrestling went down the path of grappling without submissions. Some catch wrestlers went into professional (I.e. scripted for entertainment) wrestling. Others taught in relative obscurity. It's making a bit of a comeback now with the renewed interest in submission grappling due to MMA and BJJ, but there just aren't enough qualified instructors yet for the numbers to be very high.



Yea I understand what you saying here and everyone else but what I don't understand is some people that say catch wrestling does not have good take downs. That Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling have better take downs. That part I'm confused.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 18, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Yea I understand what you saying here and everyone else but what I don't understand is some people that say catch wrestling does not have good take downs. That Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling have better take downs. That part I'm confused.


I have never heard anybody say that. Who are the "some people" you are referring to?


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## nordin (Jun 6, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Is catch wrestling not popular like it was in past?



Not even close. In early 20th century US there was a boxing and wrestling. Other sports including baseball and American football didn't even come close. Wrestlers were rich superstars. American Frank Gotch vs. Baltic German Georg Hackenschmidt fight was comparable to Jordan's most important games, Ali's (R.I.P) the Rumble in the Jungle etc.



moonhill99 said:


> Where Greco-Roman Wrestling or Freestyle Wrestling more popular in MMA these days.



As others said, because Greco and freestyle are popular Olympic sports, they are huge number of people in MMA with those backgrounds. BTW. first freestyle Olympic event  was in 1904 Summer Olympics and it was called Catch as catch can, but had rules that limit subs. Catch and one of it's parent styles _Lancashire wrestling_ was known for it's brutality and it didn't go well with Olympic ideas so it took some time to make catch wrestling permanent event. In 20ties Amateur Athletic Union renamed amateur catch version for freestyle and forbade subs and most of the ''dangerous'' moves. Since pro wrestling was still fairly legit, kids usually first trained in freestyle then went on to train for pro catch wrestling like boxers still do. 



moonhill99 said:


> Where catch wrestling does have take downs and ground work but not that good the take downs?



Freestyle wrestling has developed more in short burst style with proper weight classes and short 3 minute sessions. Catch was a style where you could meet someone much heavier and matches went for hours. To get a fall you had to pin your opponent for three seconds or sub him. It took a lot of energy. So they had a lot of ''soft''  ''flowing'' disbalancing single leg and trip takedowns ala Sakuraba that took in consideration danger of getting caught in neck subs or leg locks while shooting. Catch wrestlers exploded less often and when they did it wasn't just to simply take you down but also hurt you by dropping or slamming you on your neck or shoulders or maybe even knock you out. 

Actually there is a lot of catch background guys in MMA considering poor state of organised catch wrestling (teaching, events, promotion etc.)


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