# Fealings with tradition



## Ian wallace (Feb 10, 2007)

I am a third dan I.M.A Tang Soo Do practitioner training for my masters i also am an instructor, i have been involved in martial arts since i was around 4 years old, i was and still am very open minded about alot of aspects in T.S.D but one thing that still baffles me today is the emotional connection in a hyung!!  for example our kicho hyungs they are designed as like an introduction to our basic moves/tecquniques so our emotional connection with kicho forms will be very vague as time passes but with peace and confidence being the soule purpose of our pyung-ahn hyung  how would one feal or show such powerful emotions! could it be that its  all about peace and confidence in your tecquinique or in your mind controlling your tecquiniques. and what of  the emotional connections with the higher forms??? an important question to me! Hopefully our collective efforts on answering this could help others to understand what an emotional connection is and how important it is in T.S.D and other arts.

Yours in T.S.D

Ian Wallace


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## exile (Feb 10, 2007)

Ian wallace said:


> I am a third dan I.M.A Tang Soo Do practitioner training for my masters i also am an instructor, i have been involved in martial arts since i was around 4 years old, i was and still am very open minded about alot of aspects in T.S.D but one thing that still baffles me today is the emotional connection in a hyung!!  for example our kicho hyungs they are designed as like an introduction to our basic moves/tecquniques so our emotional connection with kicho forms will be very vague as time passes but with peace and confidence being the soule purpose of our pyung-ahn hyung  how would one feal or show such powerful emotions! could it be that its  all about peace and confidence in your tecquinique or in your mind controlling your tecquiniques. and what of  the emotional connections with the higher forms??? an important question to me! Hopefully our collective efforts on answering this could help others to understand what an emotional connection is and how important it is in T.S.D and other arts.
> 
> Yours in T.S.D
> 
> Ian Wallace



IanI'm missing something here. Have you seen Iain Abernethy's bunkai for the Pinan forms, which the KMA Pyung-Ahns are pretty much literal versions of? (Certainly the Pyung-Ahns that my instructor teaches are virtually the same in all important respects.)`Peace and confidence'? The interpretation of the movements in the Pinan/Heians that he demonstrates involve a series of sort sharp effective combat scenarios which involve throws, lock/strike cominbinations and other fighting techs which work well with instinctive reactions. The kichos are no different, but contain fewer separate scenarios. Abernethy has an outstanding DVD on the subject, as well as a fairly sustantial online monograph in which he shows that the first three Pinans are designed to cover three fighting ranges of increasing closeness, while the last two involve alternative/advanced techs to supplement those of the first three. What does emotional content have to do with it? 

Patterns are repository of fighting techs, historically. That's why they were created by the karate masters who KMAists have inherited them from. Those techs are still recoverable from the hyungs, using the kind of critical analysis that Abernethy, Burgar and other karateka apply to kata and Simon O'Neil and Stuart Anslow apply to KKW and ITF hyungs respectively. I'm not sure why they are supposed to have emotional content other than the emotions that are associated with disabling an attacker... ?


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 10, 2007)

Ian wallace said:


> I am a third dan I.M.A Tang Soo Do practitioner training for my masters i also am an instructor, i have been involved in martial arts since i was around 4 years old, i was and still am very open minded about alot of aspects in T.S.D but one thing that still baffles me today is the emotional connection in a hyung!! for example our kicho hyungs they are designedas like an introduction to our basic moves/tecquniques so our emotional connection with kicho forms will be very vague as time passes but with peace and confidence being the soule purpose of our pyung-ahn hyung how would one feal or show such powerful emotions! could it be that its all about peace and confidence in your tecquinique or in your mind controlling your tecquiniques. and what of the emotional connections with the higher forms??? an important question to me! Hopefully our collective efforts on answering this could help others to understand what an emotional connection is and how important it is in T.S.D and other arts.
> 
> Yours in T.S.D
> 
> Ian Wallace


Knowing nothing of TSD, I will say that you seems to describe aspects of the spirit. Sure we may train ourselves to be calm in the face of danger, but "when skin kisses skin tension begins". That tension should contain your whole self. To steal a term from one of my teachers, A Pandoras box, you can open and close at will, should be at your disposal.
Sean


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## Ian wallace (Feb 10, 2007)

exile said:


> IanI'm missing something here. Have you seen Iain Abernethy's bunkai for the Pinan forms, which the KMA Pyung-Ahns are pretty much literal versions of? (Certainly the Pyung-Ahns that my instructor teaches are virtually the same in all important respects.)`Peace and confidence'? The interpretation of the movements in the Pinan/Heians that he demonstrates involve a series of sort sharp effective combat scenarios which involve throws, lock/strike cominbinations and other fighting techs which work well with instinctive reactions. The kichos are no different, but contain fewer separate scenarios. Abernethy has an outstanding DVD on the subject, as well as a fairly sustantial online monograph in which he shows that the first three Pinans are designed to cover three fighting ranges of increasing closeness, while the last two involve alternative/advanced techs to supplement those of the first three. What does emotional content have to do with it?
> 
> Patterns are repository of fighting techs, historically. That's why they were created by the karate masters who KMAists have inherited them from. Those techs are still recoverable from the hyungs, using the kind of critical analysis that Abernethy, Burgar and other karateka apply to kata and Simon O'Neil and Stuart Anslow apply to KKW and ITF hyungs respectively. I'm not sure why they are supposed to have emotional content other than the emotions that are associated with disabling an attacker... ?


a good reply mr tolstoy but to gain peace and confidence an emotional development needs to take place unless you are gaining peace in a tequniuque witch still could be emotionally connected, unless ofcourse the fact as sean replyed as the aspect of spirit, maybe i didnt make myself clear enough "could hyungs help eliminate negative emotions while develop positive ones"


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Feb 12, 2007)

Emotional Connection

When we, as humans allow our emotions to get in the way, we often times loose control to one degree or another. The term NO Mind, as taught in Budo classes is designed to take the emotions and for that matter, any thinking out of the equation so that all that is left to deal with is r Raw Response. Any emotional charge that you put into a given situation can cause you to hesitate or second guess yourself. In such a situation such hesitation or second guessing could mean the difference between life and death.

When I go to tournaments and see practitioners get all mentally fixated with all kinds of facial expressions and strange breathing rituals to try and impress the crowd, I feel as if they are missing the meat of the subject; how do you finish the altercation without getting hit, and in the shortest time possible.

When we discuss Telegraphing Movements in class, it is such movements that can be caused by over thinking a technique, or having so much Emotional Connection in what we are doing that we add micro movements to our technique that will ultimately cause our opponent to be able to gain the advantage.

We train in a repetitions fashion in order to hone our techniques to be as quick and powerful as they can be, without ever giving any mind to what is happening. It happens; we respond and move on without missing a step

This is the essence of No Mind.

A great book that I picked up last year, and that I think that you will enjoy is:

*The Unfettered Mind*
Writings from a Zen Master to a Master Swordsman

Author: Takuan Soho 
Translated by: William Scott Wilson

ISBN No: 4-770-2947-0

$19.00 / Borders Book Store

If you have not yet read this book, please get it, read it and report back to us what you think


Yours in Tang Soo Do,

Master Jay S. Penfil


TANG SOO!!!


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## exile (Feb 12, 2007)

Ian wallace said:


> a good reply mr tolstoy but to gain peace and confidence an emotional development needs to take place unless you are gaining peace in a tequniuque witch still could be emotionally connected, unless ofcourse the fact as sean replyed as the aspect of spirit, maybe i didnt make myself clear enough "could hyungs help eliminate negative emotions while develop positive ones"



I'm not Mr. Tolstoy. He's the author of _War and Peace_, which my signature quotation comes from. 

I really am not sure just what you're saying, but so far as the idea of hyungs `helping eliminate negative emotions while developing positive ones', just about any activity can do that. If I find myself starting to understand the applications of a hyung, I certainly get positive emotions from that. If I solve a math problem that I've run across, or finish a project I've been working on for a long time, or whatever, I'll probably experience positive emotions at the expense of negative ones. But I'm not going to feel anything particularly peaceful or spiritual about the actual _content_ of the hyung, because a hyung is to empty-handed combat what the instruction manual for an F-18 interceptor is for high-tech aerial weapons systems. The satisfaction I get from understanding the hyung and performing it in a way that lets me `try out' the destructive applications it contains... well, let's just say that it has mostly to do with my knowledge of yet another set of techs for damaging an attacker badly enough that he loses all interest in troubling me further.


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## Ian wallace (Feb 13, 2007)

yes master penfil I see your point, and its clear that i was curious on the emotional connection and its gain in a hyung but i suppose thats another type of training all together, whats is your views on the minds typical active concentration in a hyung would it be motivated on the level of: power, expression of the hyung, timing, tension and relaxation your breathing/ki or your spiritual connection in the hyung by the understanding of its intentions? i suppose in the first stages of learning a hyung thinking is important until you understand the hyung then once youve understood the hyung with its intentions and feel totally comftable with it then and only then you can truly perform the hyung in your own state without thinking, allowing the hyung to feel natural to ones self, hesitation will only be the thought of "shall I perform the hyung that im so proud of again after the fifty'f time" as nothing comes ready there is always a preparation that needs attention.

Yours in Tang Soo Do

Ian Wallace

Tang Soo!!!!!!!


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## Ian wallace (Feb 13, 2007)

yes i guess emotions is a type of training in its own catagree but one important to address as to understand hyungs purely, points and views from other brothers and sisters in T.S.D or other styles are important and from collective efforts we learn, whats is your views on the minds typical active concentration in a hyung  as iv asked master pemfill: would it be motivated on the level of: power, expression of the hyung, timing, tension and relaxation your breathing/ki or your spiritual connection in the hyung by the understanding of its intentions.

Yours in T.S.D

Ian Wallace
Tang Soo!!


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Feb 13, 2007)

Ian,
Your posting is right on the money...


TANG SOO!!!


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