# Effects of The Killing Of Bin Laden



## MA-Caver (May 8, 2011)

Has it started? 



> *Muslim scholars pulled from Delta plane in Memphis*
> 
> &#8211;     Sat May 7, 2:07 pm ET                                BOSTON (Reuters) &#8211; Two Muslim scholars headed to a  conference on American fears of Islam were pulled from a morning flight  on Friday, and were later told that the pilot had refused to fly with  them aboard.
> Masudur Rahman, a professor of Arabic at the University of Memphis, and  Mohamed Zaghloul, Imam at the Islamic Association of Greater Memphis,  were asked to deplane Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight 5452 from  Memphis to Charlotte. They were subjected to additional security checks  after the plane had pushed back from the gate, Rahman told Reuters by  telephone.
> ...


In a lot of ways the pilot's decision to refuse to fly with the two men aboard because they were Muslims is kind of ironic 


> The two men were headed to a North American Imams conference where they  were scheduled to lead prayers. This year's conference is discussing  Islamophobia or fears of Islam and discrimination against American  Muslims


Granted that there should be concerns of reprisals by Bin Laden supporters, the fact that these men went through additional security checks by the TSA (we all know about how they do THAT don't we?  ) the pilot still refused and the airline supported them. 
I understand that the Captain of a plane has the same powers as a Captain of a ship. But this was stereotyping discrimination, and I'm sorry but that is just wrong in every way. 
Having to go through extra checks and passing them and then still being refused passage is just wrong. 
It proves whatever point those scholars would have to show during their conference.

How many more stories are we going to see in the upcoming weeks/months related to a growing paranoia of our (truly) innocent Muslim American citizens? Is it better to err on the side of caution? Reflecting on 9/11 maybe it is. I dunno.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2011)

anyone stupid enough to try to fly dressed like bin laden THIS WEEK i got no sympathy for


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## Scott T (May 8, 2011)

The pilot's a bigot, nothing more, and the airline supports the behavior.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2011)

oh zip it scott, the pilot has a responsibility to the passengers to make sure they are SAFE


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## K-man (May 8, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> oh zip it scott, the pilot has a responsibility to the passengers to make sure they are SAFE


I've searched to see if these guys have done anything out of the ordinary and found nothing. They are foreign born, working at the University of Memphis and wanted to fly within the US to a conference. They were screened twice and their luggage was screened. With those precautions carried out, what are the legitimate fears that the passengers were in any way not safe? Seems to me an over-reaction by the pilot.


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## Twin Fist (May 8, 2011)

the WEEK OBL is killed, with muslim protests promising revenge all over the world, and you think he was over reacting?


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## Touch Of Death (May 8, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> anyone stupid enough to try to fly dressed like bin laden THIS WEEK i got no sympathy for


Are you high? Seriously. 
Sean


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## WC_lun (May 8, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> the WEEK OBL is killed, with muslim protests promising revenge all over the world, and you think he was over reacting?


 
In a word, YES.


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## granfire (May 8, 2011)

> The two men were headed to a North American Imams conference where they were scheduled to lead prayers. *This year's conference is discussing Islamophobia or fears of Islam and discrimination against American Muslims*



Ironic....


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

The pilots a bigoted ***.  He should be fired for refusing to do his damn job.

So sorry he was scared. 
What's the matter, doesn't he trust the screeners? 
The No-Fly list? 
back ground checks? 
etc?

Obama needs to fix this. Issue an executive order. Order every person in the US to go out, right now, and buy a plain black suit, white shirt, black tie, and nice pair of wing tips.  Maybe make it the "Official Patriotic American Uniform" (You can write it off your taxes y'all).  This way some person who is doing something stupid like, oh I don't know, wearing the clothes they usually wear, won't get treated this way.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
2B Muslims. If 'they' wanted 'us' dead, we'd be d.e.a.d.
If you really think 'they' want 'us' dead, you're an ignorant idiot. A 100% pure ignorant idiot.

Seriously, what are these guys supposed to do?  Head out to Kohls and buy a new wardrobe just because someone might piss themselves out of ignorance?

Congrats. The terrorists did win. You're afraid, you're showing it, your actions show it. Good job.  Me, I understand this little thing called 'math' and 'probability' and I got a better chance of having my wife surprise me on my birthday with a pair of hookers, than I do being involved in an Islamic Terrorist Action.

But, I will admit....whenever I see a Burkha-Babe, I do get a little nervous.
I worry...
you know...
it's only normal...
to worry...
that...
under that black impenetrable outfit...
there might be...
you know...
...
A NINJA!



yeah, the pilots a shmuck, needs to be fired, and I'm laughing at the stupid people again.
ok, back to the birthday fantasy.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> oh zip it scott, the pilot has a responsibility to the passengers to make sure they are SAFE



He does that by flying the bus in a safe manner.
It's the TSA, local and federal law enforcement, and other security screenings job to ensure that the passengers and cargo are safe to be put on the plane.



K-man said:


> I've searched to see if these guys have done anything out of the ordinary and found nothing. They are foreign born, working at the University of Memphis and wanted to fly within the US to a conference. They were screened twice and their luggage was screened. With those precautions carried out, what are the legitimate fears that the passengers were in any way not safe? Seems to me an over-reaction by the pilot.



Yup



Twin Fist said:


> the WEEK OBL is killed, with muslim protests promising revenge all over the world, and you think he was over reacting?



Yup

Do you really think, that any muslim, planning something, is going to basically paint a bullseye on their head and scream "HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!"

Makes as much sense as an assassin trying to gain access to the president, while carrying a sign that makes a threat, wearing body armor and carrying a bazooka.
Did I mention the armor was neon pink, and had cute anime death heads on it?

Id be more worried about the quiet guy in 7b, dressed in a suit and tie, with neat hair carrying a bible. You know. The kind of guy that doesn't worry you, that you are oblivious to, that is 'invisible'.  I kinda think, that's who we should be leery of.


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## Empty Hands (May 9, 2011)

Mohamed Atta on his way to kill a couple thousand Americans:






Looks extra Muslim-y, right?


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## MA-Caver (May 9, 2011)

This is what I meant... right now we're focused on this particular issue. How long before we move on to the next incident... 

I don't think we should let our guard down, no sir but not to the point where we're paranoid of everyone. Where we develop a Muslim only airline and only Muslims are allowed to fly on that particular carrier... by remote pilot control from the ground. Nor should we regulate them to the back of the bus. 
We should (and more-n-likely do) have armed agents on board each flight ready to respond. Pilots should be armed AND trained to deal with hostage take over situations. Flight crews likewise (though not armed but trained to at least a brown belt level). 

But I agree some sort of executive order that prevents over-reaction. But I'll be damned if I'm going to dress up like everyone else to make everyone else feel safe... I'm too much of a non-conformist to submit to that. 

Sigh. Seems like a never ending game of chess where each side loses a piece for a piece until there's only just three pieces left... two kings and a queen. Question is who will have the queen?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> Mohamed Atta on his way to kill a couple thousand Americans:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep.  I can see the head towel, the desert robe, the zz top beard, and the AK47 all clear as I do every time I look at the President. 

No...wait....if he's the guy in the blue....he looks like a TSA screener!!!!
I knew it!  Those guys are working with the emeny! Oh ****! It's gonna be raining planes in the morning. 

If you all need me, I'll be down in the bunker rotating my ammo and making sure there's enough belts for the 50 cal.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> This is what I meant... right now we're focused on this particular issue. How long before we move on to the next incident...
> 
> I don't think we should let our guard down, no sir but not to the point where we're paranoid of everyone. Where we develop a Muslim only airline and only Muslims are allowed to fly on that particular carrier... by remote pilot control from the ground. Nor should we regulate them to the back of the bus.
> We should (and more-n-likely do) have armed agents on board each flight ready to respond. Pilots should be armed AND trained to deal with hostage take over situations. Flight crews likewise (though not armed but trained to at least a brown belt level).
> ...


Can't we make them live in special camps like we did the Japanese, with little crescent moons sewn on their clothing? They can only be escorted off premises by 6 white males, blond hair and blue eyes. Because, there are 'black muslims', and everyone knows gingers are evil.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Can't we make them live in special camps like we did the Japanese, with little crescent moons sewn on their clothing? They can only be escorted off premises by 6 white males, blond hair and blue eyes. Because, there are 'black muslims', and everyone knows gingers are evil.


I'm feeling a right bit sarcastic today.  Damn.


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## granfire (May 9, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Yep.  I can see the head towel, the desert robe, the zz top beard, and the AK47 all clear as I do every time I look at the President.
> 
> No...wait....if he's the guy in the blue....he looks like a TSA screener!!!!
> I knew it!  Those guys are working with the emeny! Oh ****! It's gonna be raining planes in the morning.
> ...



tin foil hat ok?


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## MA-Caver (May 9, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm feeling a right bit sarcastic today.  Damn.


*chuckles* aye you are... but I feel the same way... tired of this crap. 

Not the discussions of course... tired that we are having to look over our shoulders.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

granfire said:


> tin foil hat ok?


Hey, when you spray n pray at 2,000 RPM, you need a lot of ammo.

And if I was wearing a damn tin foil hat, I wouldn't have gotten this sunburn on my damn bald head.  @%#$&#%@* grumble  reminds me, I need to get my hazmat suit back from the dry cleaner.


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## Twin Fist (May 9, 2011)

bob is, while being a jerk(i love ya, but you are a ......luddite about national security issues), right about one thing, the threat almost never looks like a threat. But the threat? it IS a muslim

no, not all muslims

but it wasnt Quakers protesting around the world promising revenge last week now was it?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

That's because Quakers don't show up in mirrors or on TV.


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## Nomad (May 9, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Me, I understand this little thing called 'math' and 'probability' and I got a better chance of having my wife surprise me on my birthday with a pair of hookers, than I do being involved in an Islamic Terrorist Action.



Well, enjoy your birthday!


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## Twin Fist (May 9, 2011)

Originally Posted by *Bob Hubbard* 

 
_Me, I understand this little thing called 'math' and 'probability' and I got a better chance of having my wife surprise me on my birthday with a pair of hookers, than I do being involved in an Islamic Terrorist Action.


which one is more likely on a PLANE.....
_


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## CoryKS (May 9, 2011)

Did the pilot say "I'm tired of these [expletive] sheiks on this [expletive] plane!"?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Originally Posted by *Bob Hubbard*
> 
> 
> _Me, I understand this little thing called 'math' and 'probability' and I got a better chance of having my wife surprise me on my birthday with a pair of hookers, than I do being involved in an Islamic Terrorist Action.
> ...


Depends on if the flight attendant is moonlighting that evening.

But, lets use math.

Odds of Dying in Terrorist Attack on Airline: 1 in 25 million
Struck by Lightning: 1 in 500,000

There are approximately 50 murders PER DAY in the US.
About 120 traffic fatalities PER DAY.



> Overall, academic and governmental databases report, terrorist attacks killed a total of about 5,300 people in the most highly developed nations since the end of the Cold War in 1991, a rate of about 300 per year. The chance of a Westerner being killed by a terrorist is exceedingly low: about a one in three million each year, or the same chance an American will be killed by a tornado. (The Department of Homeland Security's budget is 50 times larger than that of the weather service).


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703481004574646963713065116.html


So, tell me.
How worried should I be again?

Tell me, who should I trust to recognize a threat?
The security at the airport who has access to the latest security briefings, alerts and intel, who has at their means a number of checks at different levels, including pat downs, xrays, and other scanners 
or
The bus driver who until just recently was also required to go through the same screening as his passengers?

You call me a 'Luddite', a definition that doesn't fit I'm afraid.  I'm not on the Security Council, but I do know a thing or 2 about security, tactics and such.  Sticking 2 guys on a plane that stick out like a sore thumb is stupid if the goal is them to harm you.  Works great as a distraction from the real attack. So, maybe this was a real concern. Maybe this pilot should be applauded for his concern and attention to security.

Not crucified for being a panicked, frightened bigot, by whose actions he gave our enemy a victory over us.

When the -trained- law enforcement arrived, did they find anything to be wrong?
Were these 2 men doing anything OTHER than wearing clothing that bothered the pilot?
Anything other than following the "wrong" faith?
Were any flight manuals found?
Box cutters?
Secret Death Star Plans?
Bootleg copy of Star Wars?
1 oz too much toothpaste?
a pointy toothpick?

Nope.  Sent on their way with the real cops shaking their heads.

Pilots an idiot, should be fired, airline should be fined for supporting him.


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## MA-Caver (May 9, 2011)

CoryKS said:


> Did the pilot say "I'm tired of these [expletive] sheiks on this [expletive] plane!"?


How much do you wanna bet somebody is going to try and make a comedy about that?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

I look at it this way.
I see a guy in Arab garb sitting at the table by me, I don't worry.
I see someone carrying a satchel with wires sticking out of it, by the base of a bridge, I call 911 regardless on if he's dressed like Ben Hurr or Donald Trump.


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## Twin Fist (May 9, 2011)

in all probabiliity, the threat that you see isnt the one you should be worried about, i agree, but your harsh condemnation of the pilot i cannot support.

I think he was right, better safe than sorry, and the thing is, it isnt biggoted to be worried about muslims since the last time i checked the MUSLIMS WERE THE ONES FLYING PLANES INTO BUILDINGS


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

More Asians have crashed planes into targets than Arabs.
Just saying.

Would you feel the same way if he'd refused to fly because a couple of ethnic dressed blacks were on board?


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## Twin Fist (May 9, 2011)

if some of them had killed 3000 people in one hour? 

yep, no problem at all.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 9, 2011)

They have.  More in fact.


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## Twin Fist (May 9, 2011)

wait, you mean sudanese?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

maybe.
Hey, what color are the Somalli pirates again?
Seriously, give me a body count and I'll find you a group to panic about.


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## K-man (May 10, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I look at it this way.
> I see a guy in Arab garb sitting at the table by me, I don't worry.
> I see someone carrying a satchel with wires sticking out of it, by the base of a bridge, I call 911 regardless on if he's dressed like Ben Hurr or Donald Trump.


 Is it the toga or the hairpiece that upsets you most?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

Probably the hair piece.
And Trump sitting with Shatner would have ne reaching for a pianted dustbuster prop in a heartbeat.


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## Empty Hands (May 10, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Probably the hair piece.
> And Trump sitting with Shatner would have ne reaching for a pianted dustbuster prop in a heartbeat.



I think two such titanic douchebags in close proximity would generate enough suckage to create a new black hole, right in the middle of New York.  Best not risk it.  I will admit to still liking Shatner though.


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## granfire (May 10, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> How much do you wanna bet somebody is going to try and make a comedy about that?




I am  sure Southpark it cutting out construction paper as we speak...and SNL is putting the final spin on it...


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## WC_lun (May 10, 2011)

I remember seeing pictures of the terrorist boarding those planes on 9/11. Not one was dressed in Middle Eastern of Muslim garb. They all were dressed in bussiness casual. So I guess we should be wary of anyone dressed in business casual. Hmm, the shoe bomber was white, so maybe we should focus on whites? The simple truth is if we focus upon how a person dresses or his ethnicity we will miss what is important for security, behaviour. So we can feed the hatred and the view of different equates to dangerous, or we can actually be serious about security.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

*Terrorist Attacks in the U.S.*

Sources: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html
Wikipedia.

*1920* *
Sept. 16, New York City:* TNT bomb planted in       unattended horse-drawn wagon exploded on Wall Street opposite House of       Morgan, killing 35 people       and injuring hundreds more. Bolshevist or anarchist terrorists believed       responsible, but crime never solved. 
*
1975* *
Jan. 24, New York City:* bomb set off in historic       Fraunces Tavern killed 4       and injured more than 50 people. Puerto Rican nationalist group (FALN)       claimed responsibility, and police tied 13 other bombings to the       group.

*1993* *
Feb. 26, New York City:* bomb exploded in basement       garage of World Trade Center,       killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist       Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy       charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the       mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is       suspected. 

*April 19, 1993* - Waco Texas (FBI Siege) leaves the FBI with 4 dead, 16 wounded, and the Branch Davidian's with 80 dead, 3+ wounded.                          *

1995* *
April 19, Oklahoma City:* car bomb exploded outside       federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were       killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort.       Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and       Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the       Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (_See       _ Miscellaneous Disasters.)*

2001* 
 *Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville,           Pa.:*  hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin       towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the       Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered       2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the       Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group       blamed. (_See_ September 11, 2001: Timeline of       Terrorism.) 

*2009* *

June 1, Little Rock, Arkansas:* Abdulhakim Muhammed,  a Muslim convert from Memphis, Tennessee, is charged with shooting two  soldiers outside a military recruiting center. One is killed and the  other is wounded. In a January 2010 letter to the judge hearing his  case, Muhammed asked to change his plea from not guilty to guilty,  claimed ties to al-Qaeda, and called the shooting a jihadi attack "to  fight those who wage war on Islam and Muslims."

*November 5,* *Fort Hood :* a mass shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.[1] In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others. The sole suspect is Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army major serving as a psychiatrist.
*
Dec. 25:* A Nigerian man on a flight from  Amsterdam to Detroit attempted to ignite an explosive device hidden in  his underwear. The explosive device that failed to detonate was a  mixture of powder and liquid that did not alert security personnel in  the airport. The alleged bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told  officials later that he was directed by the terrorist group Al Qaeda.  The suspect was already on the government's watch list when he attempted  the bombing; his father, a respected Nigerian banker, had told the U.S.  government that he was worried about his son's increased extremism.                    *

2010* 

*May 1, New York City:* a car bomb is discovered in  Times Square, New York City after smoke is seen coming from a vehicle.   The bomb was ignited, but failed to detonate and was disarmed before it  could cause any harm. Times Square was evacuated as a safety  precaution.  Faisal Shahzad pleads guilty to placing the bomb as well as  10 terrorism and weapons charges. 
*
May 10, Jacksonville, Florida:* a pipe bomb explodes while approximately 60 Muslims are praying in the mosque. The attack causes no injuries.
*
Oct. 29:* two packages are found on separate  cargo planes. Each package contains a bomb consisting of 300 to 400  grams (11-14 oz) of plastic explosives and a detonating mechanism. The  bombs are discovered as a result of intelligence received from Saudi  Arabia's security chief. The packages, bound from Yemen to the United  States, are discovered at en route stop-overs, one in England and one in  Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.                    *

2011* *

Jan. 17, Spokane, Washington:* a pipe bomb  is discovered along the route of the Martin Luther King, Jr. memorial  march. The bomb, a "viable device" set up to spray marchers with  shrapnel and to cause multiple casualties, is defused without any  injuries.


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

so..since 93, aside from ONE big one (Ok city) and some abortion clinics, almost every single terrorist attack has been from a muslim.

but we shouldnt worry about them.....right?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

11 attacks on US soil since 1993.
7 confirmed radical Muslim in origin.
3 domestic
1 unknown.

11 attacks, 18 years.  .61 per year.
vs car accidents 18k per year
vs 33 US plane crashes since 2005 (5.5/yr)

I feel pretty safe.  Except now when driving.

Note: stats do not include the recent series of threats and concerns. Those when included an analyzed may change things significantly.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> so..since 93, aside from ONE big one (Ok city) and some abortion clinics, almost every single terrorist attack has been from a muslim.
> 
> but we shouldnt worry about them.....right?


Define worry?

Be alert, pay attention and if need be contact proper authorities, always.

But, live in fear, ruled by paranoia, with wild "oh ****, its a terrorist' level panic every time someone in a turban, Keffiyeh or kaffiyah shows up?  Not for me. Thanks.


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## granfire (May 10, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Define worry?
> 
> Be alert, pay attention and if need be contact proper authorities, always.
> 
> But, live in fear, ruled by paranoia, with wild "oh ****, its a terrorist' level panic every time someone in a turban, Keffiyeh or kaffiyah shows up?  Not for me. Thanks.



Correct me if I'm wrong...the Anthrax scares were not religion based....


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## granfire (May 10, 2011)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Define worry?
> 
> Be alert, pay attention and if need be contact proper authorities, always.
> 
> But, live in fear, ruled by paranoia, with wild "oh ****, its a terrorist' level panic every time someone in a turban, Keffiyeh or kaffiyah shows up?  Not for me. Thanks.



Pay attention?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/bomb-squad-blows-up-toy-pony-11583281


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

muslims rarely wear turbans Bob, those are usually sihks


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## Tez3 (May 10, 2011)

Good advice from World War Two.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> muslims rarely wear turbans Bob, those are usually sihks


Yet how many Sikhs have been harassed since 9/11 because the average American's too lazy to understand the difference? Lost jobs? Been assaulted? Threatened? Removed from flights?


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

no idea, whats more, it is impossible to say , and largely irrelevant.

the threat, however small, is real.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

So, it's ok to harass them?

Because you think there's a threat?
Tell me, how much effort should I expend in preparing for a threat that the odds of it happening to me are 1 in 25 million?


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

did i say it was ok?


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> no idea, whats more, it is impossible to say , and largely irrelevant.
> 
> the threat, however small, is real.


That was your response, which I take to mean it doesnt matter who is harassed.


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

it is irrelevant to the matter at hand, that is, the threat  of muslim terrorism and some people's denial of the same.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 10, 2011)

So, confusing someone who isn't a muslim with someone who is, has nothing to do with the threat of muslim terrorism?


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## Twin Fist (May 10, 2011)

not directly, no, not to my way of thinking.

you cant win a war if you are too busy worrying about hurting people's feelings in the process


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## WC_lun (May 10, 2011)

You also cannot win a war by pidgeon holing your enemy to look and act in one certain manner, when they come in as many forms as we do. Tell me what an IRA terrorist looks like.  Or how about a anti-abortian terrorist?  An eco-terrorist?  In most reported cases of each of these the description starts as caucasion.  Yet we do not suspect every caucasian of being one of these types of terrorist because most causasians are not.  The same should hold true when it comes to our treatment of Muslims.


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## MA-Caver (May 11, 2011)

This is not an attempt to derail my own thread but to carry on with it's original intent. 
The death of Osama Bin Laden will have long ranging effects, some which are beginning to show up. 


> *Saudi police: 3 al-Qaida members surrender*
>      2 hrs 24 mins ago                                RIYADH, Saudi Arabia  Saudi Arabia says three al-Qaida members have returned from abroad and turned themselves in.
> Interior Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour  Al-Turki says the three are not on the nation's most wanted list. In a  statement Wednesday, he did not identify them, say from where they  returned or when. Some al-Qaida members have fled from Saudi Arabia to  Yemen.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_al_qaida


How many more simply put their guns and suicide vests away and went on back home quietly? 
In a way this is good news as it does allow for the fact that killing the leader will help diminish rather expand a terrorist organization. Still it depends largely on how influential and charismatic the new leader is.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2011)

It seems Pakistan is receiving the brunt of revenge attacks.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13385597


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## MA-Caver (May 13, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> It seems Pakistan is receiving the brunt of revenge attacks.
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13385597



Hmm, could it be that it's retaliation for perceived betrayal?


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> Hmm, could it be that it's retaliation for perceived betrayal?


 
I think it could be either/both or just done to scare the locals. There have been many suicide attacks in Pakistan before Bin Laden was killed. There's no consolation though for the families of those killed and wounded.
  My thoughts and prayers are with them whatever the reason.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 13, 2011)

There has also been a protracted campaign against the Taliban in Pakistan.  I'd be more surprised if the attacks were being done by the Irish.


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## Tez3 (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> not directly, no, not to my way of thinking.
> 
> you cant win a war if you are too busy worrying about hurting people's feelings in the process


 

You can't win a war if you are chasing the wrong people either. If you victimise Sikhs you face making allies into enemies, not the brightest of moves.


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## Twin Fist (May 13, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> You can't win a war if you are chasing the wrong people either. If you victimise Sikhs you face making allies into enemies, not the brightest of moves.




very true


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## Bob Hubbard (May 13, 2011)

You also don't seek to alienate the people who are not currently your enemy. The 99% of Muslims who aren't out to get us. You don't go soft, but you do show respect for them. This system worked in Iraq. If it hadn't, we would have been over run as entire towns went ballistic. 

Target the enemy. Target their support. Target their suppliers. Target their training camps.   But don't stoop to their levels.  By not being like them, you increase the probability that their own recruitment pools will dry up.  Every Iraqi knows, 1 JDAM and the mosque where the enemy hid would be a crater. By not doing that, you prevent many on the fence from leaping to the enemys aid.

Over simplifying here as I'm pressed for time right now.


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## ganglian (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> oh zip it scott, the pilot has a responsibility to the passengers to make sure they are SAFE



are YOU a bigot to???


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## ganglian (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> the WEEK OBL is killed, with muslim protests promising revenge all over the world, and you think he was over reacting?




just as sure as you are. fear mongering isnt your friend.


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## ganglian (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> bob is, while being a jerk(i love ya, but you are a ......luddite about national security issues), right about one thing, the threat almost never looks like a threat. But the threat? it IS a muslim
> 
> no, not all muslims
> 
> but it wasnt Quakers protesting around the world promising revenge last week now was it?




Your paranoia betrays you and we are NOT laughing with you, deal


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## ganglian (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> in all probabiliity, the threat that you see isnt the one you should be worried about, i agree, but your harsh condemnation of the pilot i cannot support.
> 
> I think he was right, better safe than sorry, and the thing is, it isnt biggoted to be worried about muslims since the last time i checked the MUSLIMS WERE THE ONES FLYING PLANES INTO BUILDINGS




Calm yourself, your indignation  stinks of poo. I knew someone with the misfortune of being on the first plane into the towers, and I havent lost my perspective, whats your claim, big fella? None? Paranoia? Ignorance?


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## ganglian (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> so..since 93, aside from ONE big one (Ok city) and some abortion clinics, almost every single terrorist attack has been from a muslim.
> 
> but we shouldnt worry about them.....right?




OK City and abortion clinics commited by right wing fanatics, the mirror calls


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## elder999 (May 13, 2011)

ganglian said:


> whats your claim, big fella? None? Paranoia? Ignorance?


 



_*Texan.*_ 
:lfao:


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## Bob Hubbard (May 13, 2011)

Folks, behave.


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## Scott T (May 13, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> oh zip it scott, the pilot has a responsibility to the passengers to make sure they are SAFE


Blow it out your ***, Fisty. Presumably your TSA morons already did that. If pilots are permitted to make that kind of call then there is no use for the TSA.


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## Twin Fist (May 13, 2011)

i got one obsessed stalker and now this rudeness.

bored now


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