# Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?

Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.

Come on folks, Kimbo Slice had stick legs, but because his upper body is so big and strong he became an internet sensation with his street boxing skills.

The only time the legs become TRULY valuable is when you are dealing with an exceptional boxer who really does know proper punching technique and is able to replicate that technique in a fight. Otherwise, everyone is relegated to just using his UPPER BODY strength.

As for Tyson being a great puncher who uses his legs... Dude, NO. I don't know what standards people are using but allow me to be blunt here. No human being is capable of acquiring truly strong legs through aerobics, which is literally what all elite strikers in sports end up doing. No. Without powerlifting, bodybuilding, or Olympic lifting, your legs are just noodles.

Really, I just wanna argue this. Lots of "boxing experts" think they're smart when they say "punching is all about the legs" when they themselves can't squat a twig.

Boxing is a matter of conditioning and skill, with their legs serving as gas tanks more than a factor in being heavy-handed.

What are your thoughts?

P. S. = Please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal to power. Trust me. Don't bring that up.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Wrong very very wrong. Go punch a bag and don’t move your legs at all and see how that goes. It’s not about how much you can squat but there’s a reason stances exist in martial arts, the power all comes from the hips from your hip rotation from the torque you generate with your punches. That gives you extension meaning you can reach further with your punches than you would just with your arm, stability meaning you’ve got better balance and power because you’re putting your whole body into the punch. So yes you need to use your legs and not just your arms. If it was all about arm strength than lighter weight classes wouldn’t have any knock outs. Go to a gym and try out your theory...you’ll find out quick that you are incorrect.


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## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?
> 
> Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.
> 
> ...



From “What are your thoughts - to please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal power” and I’m supposed to trust you on this and not bring it up?

And how long, approximately, you don’t have to be exact, have you been training or teaching punching to fighters? Or perhaps competed in combat sports that featured striking?

Humor me, you can ballpark it.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> From “What are your thoughts - to please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal power” and I’m supposed to trust you on this and not bring it up?
> 
> And how long, approximately, you don’t have to be exact, have you been training or teaching punching to fighters? Or perhaps competed in combat sports that featured striking?
> 
> Humor me, you can ballpark it.


by looking at this gentleman’s profile. He wants to know if he can fight with no training and if he should hit before he gets a boxing trainer so I’d say his experience is in the low to nonexistent side and his first thread was called “absolute novice fighter” so....ya


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> From “What are your thoughts - to please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal power” and I’m supposed to trust you on this and not bring it up?
> 
> And how long, approximately, you don’t have to be exact, have you been training or teaching punching to fighters? Or perhaps competed in combat sports that featured striking?
> 
> Humor me, you can ballpark it.



Zero.

Also, Buka, when I say "power" I don't mean IMPACT. I'm talking about power in the athletic sense.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Let me keep lifting and getting my numbers up in the gym. I'll blow the minds away of my boxing trainers once they realize I'm way ahead of the game in the knockout-power department after they teach me the SKILLS.

Come on man...

I'm sorry but I am virtually incapable of comprehending how wrong I am. There are really only three colors in the universe. Red, yellow, and blue. Talking to me about an existent POWER behind a punch without MUSCLE and mere leverage is 100% foreign to my thought-paradigm.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Red, yellow, and blue.


Just so you know, those aren't the primary colors. Depends whether you're talking about pigments or light sources, but neither has Red-Yellow-Blue as their base.

And that's about how accurate your assesment of punching power is, too. You've got some ideas that have some foundation, but you're missing a significant part of that foundation.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Oct 6, 2020)

Its pretty much habit to put some bodyweight/leg twist into your punching.      But upperbody strengh (as thats where most of those muscles are located) would aid in punching strength.    The legs seem like auxilary pieces in punching.   You use them to put more bodyweight and force behind a punch but you can punch without using them.   But most of the muscle usage comes from the upper body im pretty sure and most of the force does. 


You can build up suffcient muscles for punching, but just using a heavy bag, when i used to routinely use mine my arm muslces increased a bit.  You also probbly shouldnt use full force bare knuckled at all to  mitigate the chances of you breaking your hand on their skull or elbows or if you miss and hit something.    If you look at hood fights, they only do a full force punch when they are pretty sure they can land the hit.  they sort of just power jab box after that.  (there is always one that effectively comes in and one hit knocks out like 3 people though)   Preservation of knuckles is probbly important if you might have to fight other people, cant afford surgery, and might get jumped the next day because of a fight that day. 


Addendum: im pretty sure i get the overall point that the bulk of punching power and muscle usage comes from the upper body.  The lower body just puts bodyweight behind punches/leverages them.    But moving your legs for leverage etc is pretty much the standard for punching, you have to do it to get decnetly powerful strikes and good strikes.  Or to even punch with your rear hand properly.




gpseymour said:


> Just so you know, those aren't the primary colors. Depends whether you're talking about pigments or light sources, but neither has Red-Yellow-Blue as their base.
> 
> And that's about how accurate your assesment of punching power is, too. You've got some ideas that have some foundation, but you're missing a significant part of that foundation.



I got taught they were the primary colours, what are the primary colours then?  Its been many years since i have had to do any academic art, or for primary colours to matter.


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## Ivan (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?
> 
> Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna bite the bait. Strength doesn't equal power - at least not punching power. If you were correct, there wouldn't be any technique to the Shot Put sport. I want you to find one successful athlete in the Shot Put event that only used his upper body. You can't. Moreover, the technique for the Shot Put and punching, is exactly the same. If I throw a punch only using my arms and upper body, I am putting only a fraction of my body weight into it. If I lean into it with my hips like I am supposed to, I am concentrating close to 80kg of mass, behind the small area of my two knuckles: do the maths, that's a lot of pressure.

Hell, you've watched Baki right? Remember the kicking techniques in Boxing? The narrator wasn't lying. The reason you saw buff people hitting hard isn't their strength it's their mass. Of course you're going to hit harder if you weigh more. But that's not because you have more strength, it's because you have more mass behind your punch.




Here is Julian "The Hawk" Jackson. One of the hardest punchers the sport has ever known - yet at 1.80m and 71kg, in his prime, he weighed 10kg less than me. Technique, not muscle.


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


No.

Since you keep bringing up boxing in this, you should know that even boxing, as a general and historic "thing" doesn't agree with you.  Champion boxers ranging from Jack Dempsey back through Billy Edwards, Bart Doran, and a plethora of others advocated the "drop step" or "falling step" punch.  In fact, Dempsey talks about, and illustrates, how an infant can knock out a burly truck driver.

So, no, we can't agree that "punching power" is just a matter of upper body strength.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'm sorry but I am virtually incapable of comprehending how wrong I am.



Congratulations.  You got one thing right.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?
> 
> Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.
> 
> ...


Hilarious.  I think you should just take a lot of steroids.  That would be best for you.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Zero.
> 
> Also, Buka, when I say "power" I don't mean IMPACT. I'm talking about power in the athletic sense.
> 
> ...


Lol no you won’t my friend you really won’t. They’ll look at you as any other beginner. I hope you’re just trolling otherwise you are just extremely arrogant.

you are wrong, everyone here is telling you you’re wrong, any boxing trainer will tell you you are wrong, anyone with any tiny idea about martial arts will tell you you’re wrong.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

lklawson said:


> In fact, Dempsey talks about, and illustrates, how an infant can knock out a burly truck driver.



Look, Mr Lawson, I know technique is HUGE but please don't go exaggerating about how an infant can knock out an adult.

Come on man. There is an upper limit BOTH to strength and technique. Strength is limited by our mortal genes, but technique has a limit too. If you divide Mike Tyson's weight by SIX, he wouldn't knock out 13 year old boy. Come on man. Be real.

(But please don't click dislike. I think that negates the few likes I've accumulated. Please sir, I count all of them.)


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look, Mr Lawson, I know technique is HUGE but please don't go exaggerating about how an infant can knock out an adult.


Go argue about it with Jack Dempsey (Heavyweight boxing champion from 1919-1926).  He's the one who wrote it, not I.

I've read his book several times, and paid attention to his illustrations ("pictures").  He's completely right.  Maybe you should read his book.  You'd understand it then too.  Or maybe you can find where I posted his, slightly amusing and entertaining, but completely accurate illustration on this forum before.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Lol no you won’t my friend you really won’t. They’ll look at you as any other beginner. I hope you’re just trolling otherwise you are just extremely arrogant.
> 
> you are wrong, everyone here is telling you you’re wrong, any boxing trainer will tell you you are wrong, anyone with any tiny idea about martial arts will tell you you’re wrong.



I'm not trolling and it will no longer be arrogance if I prove you all wrong.

Boxing is 50% mental, AND SO IS OLYMPIC LIFTING. All that means is that our mental strength manifests muscle and motor ability. NOT some woowoo New Age stuff, but in a practical, psychological sense. However, that 50% physical aspect of it? It's HALF the equation.

Look, folks. Imagine me reaching my genetic PHYSICAL potential. Give me sloppy technique. I don't care. As long as I have the muscle to hit hard and the stamina to keep up the pressure, I'll annihilate any technique-driven soyboy outta my way.

What is the fascination with technique? It only matters if you have a foundation of having a big bench press and deadlift. If not, fighters wouldn't waste their time doing strength and conditioning.

I'll prove you all wrong. I'll lift weights and get my cardio in top condition while doing the bare-minimum boxing training that will give me just enough boost to outmatch a drunkard in technique. That's all I need and I'll show you all five victories in some amateur competition.


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'm not trolling and it will no longer be arrogance if I prove you all wrong.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I'll prove you all wrong. I'll lift weights and get my cardio in top condition while doing the bare-minimum boxing training that will give me just enough boost to outmatch a drunkard in technique. That's all I need and I'll show you all five victories in some amateur competition.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Hilarious.  I think you should just take a lot of steroids.  That would be best for you.



But then I wouldn't be able to compete in amateur competitions because of the drug testing.

I'll be fine without them. Less risk for my health as well.


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## Saheim (Oct 6, 2020)

Of course you are correct! Upper body strength is the ONLY thing that matters in punching, heck it is the only thing that matters in FIGHTING period. These stick boyz just can't accept it.  They train for decades but, deep down, KNOW all it takes is an extra 1" on biceps and they're toast! Bigger is better, stronger hits harder! In fact, don't train (fighting) AT ALL, just keep getting stronger.  Skip that crap about cardio too, you only need it if you LET the fight go on. If you're strong enough,  you just crush em straight out the gate and don't need any cardio.


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> But then I wouldn't be able to compete in amateur competitions because of the drug testing.
> 
> I'll be fine without them. Less risk for my health as well.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'm not trolling and it will no longer be arrogance if I prove you all wrong.
> 
> Boxing is 50% mental, AND SO IS OLYMPIC LIFTING. All that means is that our mental strength manifests muscle and motor ability. NOT some woowoo New Age stuff, but in a practical, psychological sense. However, that 50% physical aspect of it? It's HALF the equation.
> 
> ...


Ok.. good luck with that. Feel free to post your first ever sparring session so you can prove us wrong by you dominating these boxers with your weight lifting skills


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Ok.. good luck with that. Feel free to post your first ever sparring session so you can prove us wrong by you dominating these boxers with your weight lifting skills



I'll give it my all.

To be fair though, it's not like I won't try to learn technique. I still will. But most of my training hours will be lifting heavy iron and maximizing endurance.

Also, folks, don't imagine me walking into a boxing gym thinking myself awesome. Of course not. I'm just here to prove a point, not lord my superiority without first proving a point.

My point basically is this... You can get away with reasonably bad technique if your strength, athleticism, and endurance is high. THAT'S what I want to demonstrate. And it is also a prettier ratio. Minimal technique with great physicality is way more entertaining than ultimate technique with a soyboy physique.


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> My point basically is this... You can get away with reasonably bad technique if your strength, athleticism, and endurance is high. THAT'S what I want to demonstrate. And it is also a prettier ratio. Minimal technique with great physicality is way more entertaining than ultimate technique with a soyboy physique.


And everyone else' point is "you don't have enough experience to know."  You are the guy who just posted on Sept 15, less than a month ago, that you didn't yet have a boxing coach, that you didn't even know how to punch a bag yet.  But, still, here you are, with all of 1/2 a month of training (I hope it's that much), making pronouncements about how to make the most out of punching.

You'll forgive me if that leaves me a bit bemused and amused.  You're the same guy who asked about people's fantasy fights and still ridiculed some other person about what you assumed, incorrectly, was a fantasy about training.

Now you're starting thread after thread about stuff from "what can I actually accomplish in competition" to "sex appeal in martial arts."

I don't wanna squash your enthusiasm, but... man...  Ya think maybe you could stick to making pronouncements about things you actually have experience with?


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

lklawson said:


> And everyone else' point is "you don't have enough experience to know."  You are the guy who just posted on Sept 15, less than a month ago, that you didn't yet have a boxing coach, that you didn't even know how to punch a bag yet.  But, still, here you are, with all of 1/2 a month of training (I hope it's that much), making pronouncements about how to make the most out of punching.
> 
> You'll forgive me if that leaves me a bit bemused and amused.  You're the same guy who asked about people's fantasy fights and still ridiculed some other person about what you assumed, incorrectly, was a fantasy about training.
> 
> ...



It won't make me look good.

What do I say? That I got my butt handed to me when I was 14 years old thinking I'm the best before that moment?

Not that it happened.


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> It won't make me look good.
> 
> What do I say? That I got my butt handed to me when I was 14 years old thinking I'm the best before that moment?


I don't care about what happened to you last week.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

lklawson said:


> I don't care about what happened to you last week.



Dude I'm almost 29.

The heck's wrong with you??


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## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Dude I'm almost 29.
> 
> The heck's wrong with you??


I'll give you a link:
Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


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## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'll give it my all.
> 
> To be fair though, it's not like I won't try to learn technique. I still will. But most of my training hours will be lifting heavy iron and maximizing endurance.
> 
> ...


this is just you first thread rehashed 

upper body stengh is a great asset,  go train, no ive seen is saying dont

pubching as im sure a isaid last time has a number of factors, first and most importantly you need to be able to hit them, then you need to be able to hit them with out gettibg hit, if you can do that you will win all your fights

 then and only then does your punching power become important, 

strengh is an impirtant asset in that, but useless if yoyve already been kbocked out


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## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Dude I'm almost 29.
> 
> The heck's wrong with you??



Brian, I envy you. I really do. Learning is _so_ much more fun than knowing. It really is. You're in a position to learn so very much in the upcoming years. May you enjoy the experience. Sincerely.

As for being almost 29, my first impression was one of my nephew when I asked him how old he was. He told me he was eight and a half. I envy him, too.

At what age did you start lifting? Did you love it right from the start?


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> At what age did you start lifting? Did you love it right from the start?



Bro... Let me put it this way...

The emotional sensation I felt as the naked lady who took away my virginity as she sat on my lap on that couch, allowing me to touch her in every way... Is the same level of bliss and comfort I felt as the first time I gripped a barbell to lift it from ground to over my head, Olympic style.

There is no greater joy. It was me with my minimum wage job spending my money on nothing but my childhood passion. There was no annoying metal music or idiot peers yelling at me. It's just me becoming merged with that piece of metal. I would shed the blood of a thousand kittens just to be with that same feeling once more, in a perfect paradise better than this planet.

This is me at that time...






(Edit: I was nineteen at that time. So ten years ago.)


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## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


All power generation come from

- bottom -> up.
- back -> front.

You can punch with your arm only. But that won't be your maximum power.


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## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro... Let me put it this way...
> 
> The emotional sensation I felt as the naked lady who took away my virginity as she sat on my lap on that couch, allowing me to touch her in every way... Is the same level of bliss and comfort I felt as the first time I gripped a barbell to lift it from ground to over my head, Olympic style.
> 
> ...


well ehy not do it, 200lbs clean and jerk is that impresive to be honest, i can do that and im old


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## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro... Let me put it this way...
> 
> The emotional sensation I felt as the naked lady who took away my virginity as she sat on my lap on that couch, allowing me to touch her in every way... Is the same level of bliss and comfort I felt as the first time I gripped a barbell to lift it from ground to over my head, Olympic style.
> 
> ...



Do you think you can implement the same passion you have for lifting into other avenues of interest?


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> Do you think you can implement the same passion you have for lifting into other avenues of interest?



Yes.


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## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yes.



That's terrific, you're going to love all there is to learn about striking and all of it's related aspects.

As an aside, I don't want you to think I'm not in favor of lifting. We've been lifting for over forty years. So, a little longer than you have.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'll give it my all.
> 
> To be fair though, it's not like I won't try to learn technique. I still will. But most of my training hours will be lifting heavy iron and maximizing endurance.
> 
> ...


No you can’t that’s just facts, you can’t get away with it. Your muscles won’t do a damm thing when you’re getting punched in the face repeatedly because you’re flat footed and can’t move around because your footwork is poor or you’re getting smacked around because you’re not keeping your guard up.

this whole thread is you telling everyone to believe your theory that punches are all about arm strength well no because you’re wrong it’s not a debatable subject because it’s just wrong. There’s a reason every single boxing coach on earth says power of your punch comes from your legs. Do you actually think you know more than experienced fighters and coaches


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> That's terrific, you're going to love all there is to learn about striking and all of it's related aspects.



Thanks man.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> No you can’t that’s just facts, you can’t get away with it. Your muscles won’t do a damm thing when you’re getting punched in the face repeatedly because you’re flat footed and can’t move around because your footwork is poor or you’re getting smacked around because you’re not keeping your guard up.
> 
> this whole thread is you telling everyone to believe your theory that punches are all about arm strength well no because you’re wrong it’s not a debatable subject because it’s just wrong. There’s a reason every single boxing coach on earth says power of your punch comes from your legs. Do you actually think you know more than experienced fighters and coaches



Yes I do. The only value these coaches have is their knowledge of specific skills to be trained and empirical knowledge of proven but outdated strength + conditioning methods. Except the latter is not a compliment, which leaves the former. Meaning THE ONLY knowledge that these boxing coaches have of value is teaching technique and certain MOTOR SKILLS.

I'm not even an exercise scientist but I can train a better boxer than them. NOT in the skills and technique department, mind you, but FITNESS and STRENGTH.

I'll combine the best of both worlds and show people that there is a better way to train boxers than making them do useless jump ropes.

I won't show this kind of arrogance to my boxing coach, but unless he refrains from prescribing plyometrics to infantiles in their strength levels, I would have ZERO RESPECT for him IN THAT DEPARTMENT. I'll absorb what he can teach me with boxing, no doubt, but deep inside I will tune out everything he tells me about strength and conditioning unless he gained the knowledge from his own experience (which is the easy way out for those who are not lifting-savvy).

I may end up having to swallow my own words, but I'd bet against it.


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## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yes I do. The only value these coaches have is their knowledge of specific skills to be trained and empirical knowledge of proven but outdated strength + conditioning methods. Except the latter is not a compliment, which leaves the former. Meaning THE ONLY knowledge that these boxing coaches have of value is teaching technique and certain MOTOR SKILLS.
> 
> I'm not even an exercise scientist but I can train a better boxer than them. NOT in the skills and technique department, mind you, but FITNESS and STRENGTH.
> 
> ...


tour not going to get taken seriously as a strengh coach if you can only lift 200 lbs


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yes I do. The only value these coaches have is their knowledge of specific skills to be trained and empirical knowledge of proven but outdated strength + conditioning methods. Except the latter is not a compliment, which leaves the former. Meaning THE ONLY knowledge that these boxing coaches have of value is teaching technique and certain MOTOR SKILLS.
> 
> I'm not even an exercise scientist but I can train a better boxer than them. NOT in the skills and technique department, mind you, but FITNESS and STRENGTH.
> 
> ...


Lol the guy with no training knows more than boxing coaches about boxing. Oh wow this is priceless. Skipping is to work on footwork and keeping light on your toes and coordination All VERY important parts of boxing and something that you need if you don’t want to get knocked around like a heavy bag. Sorry but you literally said you’ll tune out from your coach...well as a coach myself let me say this....don’t waste his time If you won’t even listen. As coaches we want to work with people who want to listen and learn not know it all’s who won’t even listen.


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Lol the guy with no training knows more than boxing coaches about boxing. Oh wow this is priceless. Skipping is to work on footwork and keeping light on your toes and coordination All VERY important parts of boxing and something that you need if you don’t want to get knocked around like a heavy bag. Sorry but you literally said you’ll tune out from your coach...well as a coach myself let me say this....don’t waste his time If you won’t even listen. As coaches we want to work with people who want to listen and learn not know it all’s who won’t even listen.



I will learn what you can teach me about certain skills and techniques.

Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless. Bruce Lee said that as you probably already know. What most boxing coaches "know" (including you, very likely) about strength and conditioning is complete garbage. However, I will use you to advance my development as a boxer by grabbing what you will give me in terms of certain drills and technique development tactics.

I'm excited to enter a boxing gym, to be honest.


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## drop bear (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'll give it my all.
> 
> To be fair though, it's not like I won't try to learn technique. I still will. But most of my training hours will be lifting heavy iron and maximizing endurance.
> 
> ...



If you are planning on having boxing fights please realise that everyone is strong. Everyone is training to win.

You may not have the endurance advantage if you are a big guy. And if you don't look for the mechanical advantages. You may not even have the strength advantage.

I mean we can look at power lifting. And even that relies mechanical advantage as much as big shoulders.

So can you for example snatch more than a 70kg guy?


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## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

drop bear said:


> If you are planning on having boxing fights please realise that everyone is strong. Everyone is training to win.
> 
> You may not have the endurance advantage if you are a big guy. And if you don't look for the mechanical advantages. You may not even have the strength advantage.
> 
> I mean we can look at power lifting. And even that relies mechanical advantage as much as big shoulders.



The thought of challenging someone who is big, muscular, AND is a great boxer is terrifying. Not a good idea for me, even for some light sparring.

This might sound cowardly but I'll only challenge the smaller folks first, testing the waters and see where I'm at. Of course I won't challenge the small AND UNSKILLED fighters. That's just stupid. Rather, I'll challenge the ones I think I can overwhelm with sheer athleticism but nowhere near to their level with their skills and techniques.

That's what I'd love to try out.

Of course, my goals will change. But right now, for relatively short term, I wanna prove a point.


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## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> The thought of challenging someone who is big, muscular, AND is a great boxer is terrifying. Not a good idea for me, even for some light sparring.
> 
> This might sound cowardly but I'll only challenge the smaller folks first, testing the waters and see where I'm at. Of course I won't challenge the small AND UNSKILLED fighters. That's just stupid. Rather, I'll challenge the ones I think I can overwhelm with sheer athleticism but nowhere near to their level with their skills and techniques.
> 
> ...


So you want to prove yourself.....by fighting smaller people than you....okay lol...that’s not how boxing works. You fight people your weight class because that’s what makes it fair. You go into a gym and say no I only want to fight smaller people than me then well let’s just say you won’t make many friends there


----------



## drop bear (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> The thought of challenging someone who is big, muscular, AND is a great boxer is terrifying. Not a good idea for me, even for some light sparring.
> 
> This might sound cowardly but I'll only challenge the smaller folks first, testing the waters and see where I'm at. Of course I won't challenge the small AND UNSKILLED fighters. That's just stupid. Rather, I'll challenge the ones I think I can overwhelm with sheer athleticism but nowhere near to their level with their skills and techniques.
> 
> ...



If you roll up to a gym you will challenge who you are told to challenge. If you fight you will challenge at a weight class. Which if you are a muscle boy will be a guy who has a much bigger frame generally.

A good way to get murdered in a boxing gym is to try to beat up a small guy.

So here is Jack maclin who because he is a beanpole always towers above his oponants.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> So you want to prove yourself.....by fighting smaller people than you....okay lol



I wanna prove to the world that technique won't save you from being weak. Everyone needs to lift weights save for ultra-endurance athletes where gaining muscle is a severe disadvantage.

I'm a fan of Brock Lesnar.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I wanna prove to the world that technique won't save you from being weak. Everyone needs to lift weights save for ultra-endurance athletes where gaining muscle is a severe disadvantage.
> 
> I'm a fan of Brock Lesnar.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I wanna prove to the world that technique won't save you from being weak. Everyone needs to lift weights save for ultra-endurance athletes where gaining muscle is a severe disadvantage.
> 
> I'm a fan of Brock Lesnar.


You’re a fan of a man with a record of 5-3 who’s fueled up with steroids.....how did his ufc debut go?....he tried using his strength then got tapped out by a much smaller man because wait for it.....that man had better technique so was able to beat him...


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Worlds strongest man (so a guy with much bigger muscles than you’ll ever have ) vs a lightweight and guess what the lightweight pieced him up


----------



## lklawson (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Do you actually think you know more than experienced fighters and coaches
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And all from a guy who says he's not even taken his first boxing lesson yet.  Amazing!

Gents, after reading this, I think we might as well have just clicked on the Rick Astley link.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Your pal Brock vs the much less muscular  Cain Velasquez


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

. You enjoy your weight lifting that’s great good on you. By all means keep doing it it’s a great thing to do but you thinking you can go in and dominate in boxing by lifting weights is like me saying my martial arts training will help me walk onto the tennis courts and beat pros....you want to be a boxer you need to check your ego because I guarantee you go into sparring with the attitude you have you are going to get tuned up. Sure you’ll probably lift more than those guys but in the boxing ring they’ll beat you.


----------



## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I wanna prove to the world that technique won't save you from being weak. Everyone needs to lift weights save for ultra-endurance athletes where gaining muscle is a severe disadvantage.
> 
> I'm a fan of Brock Lesnar.



I have to go find something that you'll likely relate to, that might better explain my reasoning on this. Check back in a couple hours if you would.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

I'll respond to all of you here with a YouTube video. I already have one in my channel, but that one is directed to my friends in FF14 and distant relatives. This time, it'll be to address all of you in this thread.

And just so you all know, literally just yesterday, my first time squatting with full effort after THREE YEARS of ZERO LIFTING with NOTHING BUT CARDIO THESE PAST MONTHS, I squatted 295 pounds for five reps. You'll be mesmerised by the handicap I put myself when squatting.

I once made my squat jump from 335 to 405 in TWO MONTHS and just quit afterwards after proving a point.

Really, on matters of genes, I'm world class with leg strength. I'll squat 500 in six months of training (I'm betting). And because I have to do cardio, I won't aim for 600 if it requires me to have to specialize for it. But you'll see what a 500-pound squat PUNCHING POWER looks like in a heavy bag once my coach successfully teaches me good technique. I won't be able to apply it in matches of course, but on the bag I'll be able to do it.

Again, my next response to all of you in this thread will be through a YouTube video.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'll respond to all of you here with a YouTube video. I already have one in my channel, but that one is directed to my friends in FF14 and distant relatives. This time, it'll be to address all of you in this thread.
> 
> And just so you all know, literally just yesterday, my first time squatting with full effort after THREE YEARS of ZERO LIFTING with NOTHING BUT CARDIO THESE PAST MONTHS, I squatted 295 pounds for five reps. You'll be mesmerised by the handicap I put myself when squatting.
> 
> ...


Man you have a big ego. You did that stuff? Okay good for you respect but no I’m not mesmerized because honestly weight lifting numbers don’t matter to me. You do that stuff and that’s great good for you it’s good to exercise. but that’s weight lifting....not boxing...They’re 2 completely different things. Is their some overlap? Yeah sure but not enough to make a huge impact.


This entire thread you have said you don’t need your legs to punch that’s what this thread was about are you ready to admit you were wrong about that? Because you seem to have dropped that subject and now talking about how weight lifting is the be all and end all of boxing training.

no one is saying you won’t be able to hit hard not a single person. But there’s way way more to fighting than hitting hard. If you go into a fight swinging your mesmerizing arms around with your chin up in the air and your feet together you’ll be looking up at the lights very quick.

can you take a punch? Because you will get punched and not everyone reacts well to being punched will you continue to fight or curl up and turn away?


How will you react when tired. Because you will get tired no matter how good your cardio is you will be tired. Will you stop throwing anything or will your hands drop to your waste and you stop moving around the ring.


Will you have the sense to change your game up when things are going wrong or just keep fighting the same strategy when you’re losing.

will you have some early success and go after the guy like crazy but he uses his footwork and defense to survive and escape will you punch yourself out trying to finish it off and then have no stamina for the rest of the fight?



these are all very real things to consider in the ring, much more than just “can I hit harder than them “


----------



## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I will learn what you can teach me about certain skills and techniques.
> 
> Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless. Bruce Lee said that as you probably already know. What most boxing coaches "know" (including you, very likely) about strength and conditioning is complete garbage. However, I will use you to advance my development as a boxer by grabbing what you will give me in terms of certain drills and technique development tactics.
> 
> I'm excited to enter a boxing gym, to be honest.





Bee Brian said:


> I'll respond to all of you here with a YouTube video. I already have one in my channel, but that one is directed to my friends in FF14 and distant relatives. This time, it'll be to address all of you in this thread.
> 
> And just so you all know, literally just yesterday, my first time squatting with full effort after THREE YEARS of ZERO LIFTING with NOTHING BUT CARDIO THESE PAST MONTHS, I squatted 295 pounds for five reps. You'll be mesmerised by the handicap I put myself when squatting.
> 
> ...


ive seen girly girls squat 350 lbs

i  know  your trying to impress us , but these are not big numbers for anyone who has been doing stengh trainibg for a few months


----------



## elder999 (Oct 6, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Your pal Brock vs the much less muscular  Cain Velasquez
> 
> View attachment 23207


UFC 121?
Lesnar had a 20 lb. weight advantage, and a 4" reach advantage.....

<coughs!>cardio.cardio.cardio.<coughs!>


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 6, 2020)

elder999 said:


> UFC 121?
> Lesnar had a 20 lb. weight advantage, and a 4" reach advantage.....
> 
> <coughs!>cardio.cardio.cardio.<coughs!>


Brocks most famous move....the helibrocktor lol


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 6, 2020)

Rat said:


> Its pretty much habit to put some bodyweight/leg twist into your punching.      But upperbody strengh (as thats where most of those muscles are located) would aid in punching strength.    The legs seem like auxilary pieces in punching.   You use them to put more bodyweight and force behind a punch but you can punch without using them.   But most of the muscle usage comes from the upper body im pretty sure and most of the force does.
> 
> 
> You can build up suffcient muscles for punching, but just using a heavy bag, when i used to routinely use mine my arm muslces increased a bit.  You also probbly shouldnt use full force bare knuckled at all to  mitigate the chances of you breaking your hand on their skull or elbows or if you miss and hit something.    If you look at hood fights, they only do a full force punch when they are pretty sure they can land the hit.  they sort of just power jab box after that.  (there is always one that effectively comes in and one hit knocks out like 3 people though)   Preservation of knuckles is probbly important if you might have to fight other people, cant afford surgery, and might get jumped the next day because of a fight that day.
> ...


In light, red-green-blue. In pigment, cyan-magenta-yellow (and black, in practice).


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 6, 2020)

AceVentura said:


> It only takes about three pounds of pressure to break an elbow.  All the muscles in the world won't help you throw a power punch if that arm is broken


I’d be interested in seeing a source for that 3 lbs. comment. I’m pretty sure I could suspend a 15 lb. weight from my elbow in a lock without an issue.


----------



## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

You know black isnt a colour


----------



## jobo (Oct 6, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> In light, red-green-blue. In pigment, cyan-magenta-yellow (and black, in practice).


you know blacks not a colour ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 6, 2020)

jobo said:


> You know black isnt a colour


In pigment, it is, in practice (because combined pigments don’t properly absorb enough light). In light, it isn’t. But you’re correct, since color in pigment is actually about reflected/absorbed light frequencies.


----------



## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> The thought of challenging someone who is big, muscular, AND is a great boxer is terrifying. Not a good idea for me, even for some light sparring.
> 
> This might sound cowardly but I'll only challenge the smaller folks first, testing the waters and see where I'm at. Of course I won't challenge the small AND UNSKILLED fighters. That's just stupid. Rather, I'll challenge the ones I think I can overwhelm with sheer athleticism but nowhere near to their level with their skills and techniques.
> 
> ...



Brian, see this fella?




This is my buddy, Willie. One of his nicknames at work was QT. For quarter ton. Because he benched over five hundred pounds with ease. I forget what he squatted, I think it was small planets.

QT was born in the toughest section of the city, trained fighting arts since childhood, wrestled, boxed did Martial Arts, lifted since he was a teen. This is also QT...



He's what we call a serious Motherfather. 

Here's QT again, with one of my instructors...





My instructor only lifted weights a couple of weeks before each time he competed. Not for strength, just to toughen the body for abuse in the ring. You might figure if they grappled, hands and arms on each other, QT would have his way, he's a good fighter and extremely strong. The reason he's laughing in the photo is he had just been submitted five times in two minutes. As QT put it "he treated me as if I was a new born, never once using an ounce of strength, just gently putting me where ever the hell he wanted. I tapped more than Sammy Davis Jr."

You might say that has nothing to do with striking. You'ld be right, it doesn't. But I strike much harder than QT ever thought of, it's not even close, honest. He'd tell you the same thing.

Punching doesn't equate to strength unless you know how to punch. And sometimes it takes more than a week to learn. 

I think you'll have better success if you open your mind. Empty your cup as we say in the Arts.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> Brian, see this fella?
> 
> View attachment 23208
> 
> ...



Buka...

But QT wrestled. What the hell.

Dude, this makes no sense. Yes he's strong, but more to the point, he WRESTLED.

What the hell...


----------



## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Buka...
> 
> But QT wrestled. What the hell.
> 
> ...



It doesn’t make sense because you lack experience with either party.

A lot of things in life don’t make sense  when there’s no first hand knowledge or experience. I think that’s why learning is so much fun,


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Buka...
> 
> But QT wrestled. What the hell.
> 
> ...


Did you miss the last 3 paragraphs?


----------



## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Brian, are you familiar with the knee on belly position?  If not, wrap your mind around this if you can.....The photo I shared with you of QT and my instructor...if either one of them had you in this position, and you weren’t familiar with that position, you could not force your way out of that position with either one of them no matter how much strength you have, no matter how crazy you went.

Not with QT because he’s familiar with it and is as at least as strong as you, probably stronger. And not with the other guy just.....because.

And neither one of them would even have to have their hands on you.

Only because you’re not familiar with it.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

Buka said:


> View attachment 23211
> Brian, are you familiar with the knee on belly position?  If not, wrap your mind around this if you can.....The photo I shared with you of QT and my instructor...if either one of them had you in this position, and you weren’t familiar with that position, you could not force your way out of that position with either one of them no matter how much strength you have, no matter how crazy you went.
> 
> Not with QT because he’s familiar with it and is as at least as strong as you, probably stronger. And not with the other guy just.....because.
> ...



Oh great. Are you now gonna tell me Dim Mak is real?


----------



## Buka (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Oh great. Are you now gonna tell me Dim Mak is real?



Lol.


----------



## elder999 (Oct 6, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?
> 
> Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.
> 
> ...



You don't know much. That's my thought.


----------



## EdwardA (Oct 6, 2020)

The only way anybody learns anything, is through several years of study and even more effort.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 6, 2020)

elder999 said:


> You don't know much. That's my thought.



My point exactly. Mike Tyson lifted weights. Muscles are everything.


----------



## skribs (Oct 6, 2020)

I'm of the opinion that your upper body strength plays more into your power, but your core and leg strength play into your speed.  I say this, because in terms of tone, I go legs > core > arms, and yet when I've tested arm punches, they're half of what a fully body punch would be.  If leg and core strength were more important, then those punches would be much weaker.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> My point exactly. Mike Tyson lifted weights. Muscles are everything.


He also trained boxing every single day and in fact his career went downhill the moment he stopped relying on technique and started focusing on his power trying to ko everyone with one shot


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Oh great. Are you now gonna tell me Dim Mak is real?


look get your ego in check. No one In a boxing gym cares What you bench press or what you squat or any of that? No one will ask you about it because no one cares. You will go in there and you will get beaten up because you don’t have a clue how to fight and you’ll be sparring people who can fight and your muscles will do little to save you. You must’ve missed the video I posted of Eddie hall getting tuned up by a lightweight


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 7, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> look get your ego in check. No one In a boxing gym cares What you bench press or what you squat or any of that? No one will ask you about it because no one cares. You will go in there and you will get beaten up because you don’t have a clue how to fight and you’ll be sparring people who can fight and your muscles will do little to save you. You must’ve missed the video I posted of Eddie hall getting tuned up by a lightweight



You know what, let me go take a three-year break from my real life and prove to everyone how right I am by focusing on lifting and boxing only. The world needs to be enlightened.

No strategy can turn one man into a killing machine. We need an army for that. And as long as you are not as stupid as Xerxes, you will come out victorious in a war if you have the superior weaponpower, firepower and manpower.

KOKarate, you need to be awakened from your dogmatic slumber and realize that martial arts are overrated. Violence is where it's at. Here's the difference between useless martial art and practical violence. Here's martial arts...






On the other hand, VIOLENCE.






Violence always wins.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yes I do. The only value these coaches have is their knowledge of specific skills to be trained and empirical knowledge of proven but outdated strength + conditioning methods. Except the latter is not a compliment, which leaves the former. Meaning THE ONLY knowledge that these boxing coaches have of value is teaching technique and certain MOTOR SKILLS.
> 
> I'm not even an exercise scientist but I can train a better boxer than them. NOT in the skills and technique department, mind you, but FITNESS and STRENGTH.
> 
> I'll combine the best of both worlds and show people that there is a better way to train boxers than making them do useless jump ropes.



Oh man... I can't even begin to explain how very, very incorrect this is.... Boxing coaches do NOT just teach technique. And what a very strange conclusion to assume that every single coach has outdated strength + conditioning methods, very far from true...

I highly recommend you keep an open kind and actually listen to the incredibly experienced folk on this forum. They do know a thing or two...

You can do as you please of course, but I know of many cases of people believing they have all the answers and have had the best training, go into a gym to challenge their guys, and get seriously, seriously hurt. Certainly don't want you to get seriously hurt, hence why I respectfully advise you listen. Otherwise, you may learn the very hard and unnecessary way..


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> You know what, let me go take a three-year break from my real life and prove to everyone how right I am by focusing on lifting and boxing only. The world needs to be enlightened.
> 
> No strategy can turn one man into a killing machine. We need an army for that. And as long as you are not as stupid as Xerxes, you will come out victorious in a war if you have the superior weaponpower, firepower and manpower.
> 
> ...


What are you even talking about?.....no one said a thing about “killing machines” you want to enlighten us.... maybe you should actually get in the gym and train instead of talking nonsense online. Also did you seriously just post a cartoon to show what violence is...


----------



## jobo (Oct 7, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> What are you even talking about?.....no one said a thing about “killing machines” you want to enlighten us.... maybe you should actually get in the gym and train instead of talking nonsense online. Also did you seriously just post a cartoon to show what violence is...


 its not surprising he posted a cartoon to show what a woman is !

there's a certain element of not being able to separate fiction and reality going on here.

id bet a pound we have another rat, holding forth but never actually going to a class developing here


----------



## Ivan (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I will learn what you can teach me about certain skills and techniques.
> 
> Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless. Bruce Lee said that as you probably already know. What most boxing coaches "know" (including you, very likely) about strength and conditioning is complete garbage. However, I will use you to advance my development as a boxer by grabbing what you will give me in terms of certain drills and technique development tactics.
> 
> I'm excited to enter a boxing gym, to be honest.


You sound completely delusional at this point.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> You know what, let me go take a three-year break from my real life and prove to everyone how right I am by focusing on lifting and boxing only. The world needs to be enlightened.
> 
> No strategy can turn one man into a killing machine. We need an army for that. And as long as you are not as stupid as Xerxes, you will come out victorious in a war if you have the superior weaponpower, firepower and manpower.
> 
> ...


Ah, yes, the old "cartoon defeats movie" line of logic.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 7, 2020)

jobo said:


> its not surprising he posted a cartoon to show what a woman is !
> 
> there's a certain element of not being able to separate fiction and reality going on here.
> 
> id bet a pound we have another rat, holding forth but never actually going to a class developing here


Rat at least seems to be doing some actual research.


----------



## jobo (Oct 7, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Rat at least seems to be doing some actual research.


yes fair enough even rat isnt isibg manga as a referance source


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Oct 7, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> In light, red-green-blue. In pigment, cyan-magenta-yellow (and black, in practice).



Both CMYK and RBY are used for pigment/printing.   Did a breif look, painting is RBY, printing is CMYK based.     And i was personally taught RBY in art if i recall correctly.     It weird, there is like 4 colour systems used, and thats why thw wiki pages for colours have like 4 colour mixtures listed for the diffrent systems both for digital and manual colours.


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Oct 7, 2020)

jobo said:


> id bet a pound we have another rat, holding forth but never actually going to a class developing here



I literally just finished writing the other one and posted it and caught that as the most recent posts.    I literally did the forum version of looking away for five minuets.   


Also @gpseymour    i have had the black isnt a colour issue before.  you have to seperate if you mean physics (as its lack of light) or in art/paint.    Last i checked you can get and make black pigment to paint with, so it is a colour.   but it is also the lack of light as in physics. 

i had some argument with some in real life with it, and had to very clearly state physics and art are two seperate things and context determines what black is and isnt.


----------



## EdwardA (Oct 7, 2020)

Rat said:


> I literally just finished writing the other one and posted it and caught that as the most recent posts.    I literally did the forum version of looking away for five minuets.
> 
> 
> Also @gpseymour    i have had the black isnt a colour issue before.  you have to seperate if you mean physics (as its lack of light) or in art/paint.    Last i checked you can get and make black pigment to paint with, so it is a colour.   but it is also the lack of light as in physics.
> ...



Yes in physics, the absence of light is dark, black.  In paint or pigment, black may be all colors.  I know when I've tried to mix colors on the spot and go a little to far, it goes black....or close to it.


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Oct 7, 2020)

Buka said:


> Brian, are you familiar with the knee on belly position? If not, wrap your mind around this if you can.....The photo I shared with you of QT and my instructor...if either one of them had you in this position, and you weren’t familiar with that position, you could not force your way out of that position with either one of them no matter how much strength you have, no matter how crazy you went.



the issue i have with grappling as a example, yes there are inescapable postions espeically if you dont know what you are doing or the bio mechnics.  But if you are so obscenely stronger and heavier than the person you are grappling and arent used to it they can just power through with very basic /no skills.    Dont a lot of grappling coaches have stories of that one person who comes in who is a strength athelete or something they cant submit, unless they have a equal intrest/obsession with building strength?   Then they usually beat them and can consistently beat them from that point.    If you have people like that where you grapple then i would put you as you could do it in a practise, if not, unless you are the person i would put it as doubt. 

Like there is a video of two people fighting in a gym over weights and one of them ends up in a top mount postion with legs either side of them, and the person on the bottom isnt getting out of it/winning from that position.    I think they both did weight things and were comprable sizes/strengths.   


Addendum: to be fair, extremes are always brought in, because you either get the crowd who shun you for being too strong or you get the body builder crowd who think they can muscle for everything and how boxing technique has little to do with your muscles when you can jab someone in the face 3 times without a counter attack.     You need decent athelticism and technique is application of it.     The small people can beat the obscenely big people are just as deluded as the "i can bench 200kilos so can beat everyone" crowd. 

addendum 2: obviously grappling is more strenght reliant than striking.


----------



## jobo (Oct 7, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> Yes in physics, the absence of light is dark, black.  In paint or pigment, black may be all colors.  I know when I've tried to mix colors on the spot and go a little to far, it goes black....or close to it.


what it goes is very very dark red or blue (usually) and reflects light just about on the edge of our colour perception, so it does indeed look black, its reflecting light you can barely see and there a lot of daltonism  about so one mans dark red is another mans black

i cant tell you how often ive heard two people arguing over what colour a car is and thats before you put it under sodium lights


----------



## Flying Crane (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> You know what, let me go take a three-year break from my real life and prove to everyone how right I am by focusing on lifting and boxing only. The world needs to be enlightened.



This sounds great.  I am in full support.  I await your final report when you are finished.

Does this mean we won’t hear from you again for at least three years?  Awesome!!


----------



## EdwardA (Oct 7, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> This sounds great.  I am in full support.  I await your final report when you are finished.
> 
> Does this mean we won’t hear from you again for at least three years?  Awesome!!



In other words, when he grows up and learns the value of listening.  I never go by other's opinions, but I did take their opinions seriously, especially if they did what I was interested in...for much longer than me.  Experience beats the heck out of postulating.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?
> 
> Think about it. Fighters like Buakaw and Tyson prioritize training their PRESSING STRENGTH more than the athletic squats and Olympic lifts. I read that Doug Hepburn, Canadian strength legend, had an uncle with such insane SHOULDER STRENGTH that he knocked out a bull with one PUNCH. I saw Gabriel Gonzaga prior to his fight against Cro Cop doing a specialized PRESSING exercise on the cable machine in a normal gym.
> 
> ...


----------



## JowGaWolf (Oct 7, 2020)

Is it over yet?


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 7, 2020)

EdwardA said:


> In other words, when he grows up and learns the value of listening.  I never go by other's opinions, but I did take their opinions seriously, especially if they did what I was interested in...for much longer than me.  Experience beats the heck out of postulating.


What will happen is he will go in the gym thinking he’s all that because he can lift weight. They’ll do some pads and he’ll gas within a few minutes because he’s not used to thr cardio of boxing which is perfectly normal for any beginner. Then They will spar and he will get dominated by a lot smaller people including women because they are more skilled. Then he’ll realize how wrong he was and his ego will take a bruising. Then he’s got to make the choice of whether to take his ball and go home and never come back or if he’ll suck it up swallow his pride and commit to getting better. We’ll see...


----------



## lklawson (Oct 7, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> What will happen is he will go in the gym thinking he’s all that because he can lift weight. They’ll do some pads and he’ll gas within a few minutes because he’s not used to thr cardio of boxing which is perfectly normal for any beginner. Then They will spar and he will get dominated by a lot smaller people including women because they are more skilled. Then he’ll realize how wrong he was and his ego will take a bruising. Then he’s got to make the choice of whether to take his ball and go home and never come back or if he’ll suck it up swallow his pride and commit to getting better. We’ll see...


You're still assuming that he's actually serious.  I'm no longer convinced.


----------



## Buka (Oct 7, 2020)

Rat said:


> the issue i have with grappling as a example, yes there are inescapable postions espeically if you dont know what you are doing or the bio mechnics.  But if you are so obscenely stronger and heavier than the person you are grappling and arent used to it they can just power through with very basic /no skills.    Dont a lot of grappling coaches have stories of that one person who comes in who is a strength athelete or something they cant submit, unless they have a equal intrest/obsession with building strength?   Then they usually beat them and can consistently beat them from that point.    If you have people like that where you grapple then i would put you as you could do it in a practise, if not, unless you are the person i would put it as doubt.
> 
> Like there is a video of two people fighting in a gym over weights and one of them ends up in a top mount postion with legs either side of them, and the person on the bottom isnt getting out of it/winning from that position.    I think they both did weight things and were comprable sizes/strengths.
> 
> ...



In the photo I posted that this relates too, either man would hold down BeeBrian quite easily, for as long as they wanted, no matter how strong Brian is.


----------



## Michael Hubbard (Oct 7, 2020)

I believe that punching power comes from turning your body at the right time which involves hips and legs and shoulders to create the best power on a target.  Before I trained in karate, I was a bodybuilder for 18 years, benched 425 lbs, squatted 500 lbs had 20 inch arms, etc and that did not help my punching power.  I had good power when I started training but didn't develop great power until 5 years into my training.


----------



## jobo (Oct 7, 2020)

Michael Hubbard said:


> I believe that punching power comes from turning your body at the right time which involves hips and legs and shoulders to create the best power on a target.  Before I trained in karate, I was a bodybuilder for 18 years, benched 425 lbs, squatted 500 lbs had 20 inch arms, etc and that did not help my punching power.  I had good power when I started training but didn't develop great power until 5 years into my training.


but this is just the other way,
.as i said to brian, the most difficult part of punching is being fast enough to hit the other guy, which is then totally dependent on how fast the other guy is at ether punching you first ir getting out of the way,

untill they start landing,  the rest is academic,  when they do, your oubches need to be hard enough to prefrably knock him over at the very least back him up,

if they do that, then they are hard enough and that doesnt matter where that comes from, if he is over he is over, if i arm punch some one clean i do rather exspect them to fall over


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 7, 2020)

Michael Hubbard said:


> I believe that punching power comes from turning your body at the right time which involves hips and legs and shoulders to create the best power on a target.  Before I trained in karate, I was a bodybuilder for 18 years, benched 425 lbs, squatted 500 lbs had 20 inch arms, etc and that did not help my punching power.  I had good power when I started training but didn't develop great power until 5 years into my training.


The ability (strength) is only the 50%. The other 50% is the technique (body unification).

1. Freeze the body, only punch with the arm.
2. Freeze the legs, only punch with the upper body and arm.
3. Use the whole body (legs, upper body, arm) to punch.

IMO 1 < 2 < 3.

If we consider the human body as 3 springs:

- arm,
- body,
- leg.

Without MA training, all 3 springs function separately. With MA training, all 3 springs can be compressed at the same time, and also released at the same time.

The OP thinks to be able to coordinate arm and upper body (2 springs) is good enough. He totally forget that he also has the 3rd spring - leg.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


Just realized I never actually answered this question. We can actually all agree (sans you) that punching power is _*not*_ just a matter of upper-body strength.


----------



## Danny T (Oct 7, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


Uh; No we can't. There is more to punching power than just upper-body strength.



Bee Brian said:


> I just wanna argue this.
> 
> What are your thoughts?
> 
> P. S. = Please save me your arguments about how strength does not equal to power. Trust me. Don't bring that up.


You want to argue this, ask for other's thoughts and then you say save your arguments that strength does not equal power. Huh!???

So you don't want to argue nor do you what other's thoughts...unless they agree with you?


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Oct 9, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Look... Can't we all just agree that PUNCHING POWER is just a matter of upper-body strength?


We can't. All power come from:

legs -> trunk & back -> shoulder -> elbow -> wrist


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Hey everyone, my video is about to be uploaded to YouTube. Any watchers?

A big chunk of it is for ALL OF YOU HERE in Martial Talk forums.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Here.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 10, 2020)

As a suggestion. Go find a boxing coach and do the things he tells you to do rather than just doing your own thing. 

He is just going to have a better system for enabling people to win fights than someone who has had no experience.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> As a suggestion. Go find a boxing coach and do the things he tells you to do rather than just doing your own thing.
> 
> He is just going to have a better system for enabling people to win fights than someone who has had no experience.


Are you saying that to get good at boxing you need to learn boxing.....man that’s some revolutionary  advice right there my friend Lol


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Here.


Can someone summarize it for me please  I haven’t got time to watch a 14 minute video of this


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Can someone summarize it for me please  I haven’t got time to watch a 14 minute video of this



Watch it. I addressed people here in Martial Talk specifically.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Watch it. I addressed people here in Martial Talk specifically.


Like I said Ive got more important things to do with my day so just give me the chapter notes


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Like I said Ive got more important things to do with my day so just give me the chapter notes



The biggest one is me saying that I'd have my boxing coach teach me technique and skills while I do my own strength and conditioning. And then I talked smack against all of you "soyboys".


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> The biggest one is me saying that I'd have my boxing coach teach me technique and skills while I do my own strength and conditioning. And then I talked smack against all of you "soyboys".



wow 14 minutes of that...well thanks for confirming I’m not missing out on anything if that’s all you had to say


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> wow 14 minutes of that...well thanks for confirming I’m not missing out on anything if that’s all you had to say



Listen, Karate boy, that's at best 10% of the whole content.

Give me a bone man, I'm trying hard to be a YouTube star.

I also showed that I'm an avid player of the game Final Fantasy 14. Just watch it and click like if you like it.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Listen, Karate boy, that's at best 10% of the whole content.
> 
> Give me a bone man, I'm trying hard to be a YouTube star.
> 
> I also showed that I'm an avid player of the game Final Fantasy 14. Just watch it and click like if you like it.


Nah I’m good thank you....I have Very little interest in video games and absolutely 0 interest in watching people play video games never understood why that’s popular. If that’s your thing good for you but I’m not using my data watching that


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Listen, Karate boy, that's at best 10% of the whole content.
> 
> Give me a bone man, I'm trying hard to be a YouTube star.
> 
> I also showed that I'm an avid player of the game Final Fantasy 14. Just watch it and click like if you like it.


can i just like and subscribe and not watch it ?


----------



## drop bear (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Are you saying that to get good at boxing you need to learn boxing.....man that’s some revolutionary  advice right there my friend Lol



You would be amazed at how many people think they have the game breaking system that the successful coaches and fighters haven't thought of.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> can i just like and subscribe and not watch it ?



Sure! Thanks.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You would be amazed at how many people think they have the game breaking system that the successful coaches and fighters haven't thought of.


Seeing it right here....guy with no training Let alone fights telling us how to be successful boxers


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You would be amazed at how many people think they have the game breaking system that the successful coaches and fighters haven't thought of.



Yeah and I'm one of them.

Do you want empirical evidence that lots of coaches are complete idiots? Literally it's everywhere in all competitive sports. Go watch one of the training videos of Buakaw where a soft-bellied coach had the legend do push ups with alternating hand positions in mid repetition. Buakaw literally trained better without that tool hovering around him. And Buakaw, like any enlightened fighter, was lifting weights.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yeah and I'm one of them.
> 
> Do you want empirical evidence that lots of coaches are complete idiots? Literally it's everywhere in all competitive sports. Go watch one of the training videos of Buakaw where a soft-bellied coach had the legend do push ups with alternating hand positions in mid repetition. Buakaw literally trained better without that tool hovering around him. And Buakaw, like any enlightened fighter, was lifting weights.


You’re really not


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> You’re really not



Yes I am.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yes I am.


Oh yeah? How many people have you trained to success to prove that you are? Oh yeah no one


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Oh yeah? How many people have you trained to success to prove that you are? Oh yeah no one



I coached my classmates back in Job Corps in volleyball and we won two matches after they were on a losing streak for YEARS. Before I volunteered, my teacher was already expecting our whole class to be eaten alive.

That's the only thing that I will consider to count even though I've trained multiple people in the gym, even my mom. Because for all I know, they just quit whatever training program I gave them. And I've been told I'd make a good fitness trainer by a no-nonsense friend.

And my own results speak for themselves. I can prove it with a video if I have to, but my squat went from 335 pounds to 405 in TWO MONTHS of training, when legendary fitness YouTubers like Frank Yang only hit a 405 squat after two years of training.

Keep underestimating me bro.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I coached my classmates back in Job Corps in volleyball and we won two matches after they were on a losing streak for YEARS. Before I volunteered, my teacher was already expecting our whole class to be eaten alive.
> 
> That's the only thing that I will consider to count even though I've trained multiple people in the gym, even my mom. Because for all I know, they just quit whatever training program I gave them. And I've been told I'd make a good fitness trainer by a no-nonsense friend.
> 
> ...


This is a martial art forum not a body building forum I’m talking about martial arts and how you’re saying you know anything about boxing and how to be successful in it which you’ve proven numerous times you know absolutely nothing about it and posting absolute nonsense as facts. You can squat a number good for you well done but it doesn’t mean a thing to me I don’t care what you can squat or bench press it doesn’t mean a thing to me either way. Upload a video of you lifting weights I will not watch it, only video I will watch is you in the ring sparring showing us all how your muscles can beat real fighters. Now that video I will happily watch


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> This is a martial art forum not a body building forum I’m talking about martial arts and how you’re saying you know anything about boxing which you’ve proven numerous times you know absolutely nothing about it and posting absolute nonsense as facts. I don’t care what you can squat or bench press it doesn’t mean a thing to me either way. Upload a video of you lifting weights I will not watch it, only video I will watch is you in the ring sparring showing us all how your muscles can beat real fighters



I will. Get ready to swallow your words.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I will. Get ready to swallow your words.


Well you said in a previous comment it’ll take 3 years so I won’t hold my breath


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Well you said in a previous comment it’ll take 3 years so I won’t hold my breath



It's a bit complicated. So for three years I'll train my boxing skills. But I think by that time I'd already establish friendships and connections with truly good boxers. I'd hard-spar against one of the weaker people who also has EXCEPTIONAL SKILLS. That's key. It'd be silly of me to go box with zero fighting ability. But with only three years of training, I can beat a freaky good veteran boxer as long as I'm a harder hitter than him.

It'll happen.

Is three years too much? Not for the wait, but enough time to make me so good it's no longer about pure strength. I don't know about martial arts, but in weightlifting, it's easy to estimate numbers if you ask a lifter how long he's been consistently training. I asked a Judoka about that and he flat out told me it's a very difficult question to answer.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yeah and I'm one of them.
> 
> Do you want empirical evidence that lots of coaches are complete idiots? Literally it's everywhere in all competitive sports. Go watch one of the training videos of Buakaw where a soft-bellied coach had the legend do push ups with alternating hand positions in mid repetition. Buakaw literally trained better without that tool hovering around him. And Buakaw, like any enlightened fighter, was lifting weights.


push ups are lifting weight!


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> push ups are lifting weight!



I know. But why make him switch hand positions in the middle of the rep? THAT'S the stupid thing about it.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> It's a bit complicated. So for three years I'll train my boxing skills. But I think by that time I'd already establish friendships and connections with truly good boxers. I'd hard-spar against one of the weaker people who also has EXCEPTIONAL SKILLS. That's key. It'd be silly of me to go box with zero fighting ability. But with only three years of training, I can beat a freaky good veteran boxer as long as I'm a harder hitter than him.
> 
> It'll happen.
> 
> Is three years too much? Not for the wait, but enough time to make me so good it's no longer about pure strength. I don't know about martial arts, but in weightlifting, it's easy to estimate numbers if you ask a lifter how long he's been consistently training. I asked a Judoka about that and he flat out told me it's a very difficult question to answer.


No you won’t you won’t beat any veteran....a veteran will toy with you with ease and will have to hold back to make it anywhere near competitive and could finish you quick if he chose to. Not just you....anyone that’s how it works. 3 years is nothing sure you might beat a random with no training but if you think 3 years of training is anywhere near enough To beat a veteran boxer then well....you’ll find out the hard way


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I know. But why make him switch hand positions in the middle of the rep? THAT'S the stupid thing about it.


so he can develop more strengh, speed co ordination and use more/ different muscles in the exercise

try it, its not at all easy


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I know. But why make him switch hand positions in the middle of the rep? THAT'S the stupid thing about it.


Because the different hand positions work different muscles and different areas. For example diamond press ups vs regular ones. Regular ones your hands are placed apart, and that helps to work your chest,

diamond press ups your hands are closer together, with your fingers and thumbs forming a diamond  it moves the focus from your chest to your triceps.

changing in between is to keep the muscular endurance going while staying in the workout instead of just stopping and starting


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> so he can develop more strengh, speed co ordination and use more/ different muscles in the exercise
> 
> try it, its not at all easy



Oh heeere we go.

Jobo don't. This is my expertise. Just... Don't.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> No you won’t you won’t beat any veteran....a veteran will toy with you with ease and will have to hold back to make it anywhere near competitive and could finish you quick if he chose to. Not just you....anyone that’s how it works. 3 years is nothing sure you might beat a random with no training but if you think 3 years of training is anywhere near enough To beat a veteran boxer then well....you’ll find out the hard way


well he thirty,  he is much the same age as a vetron boxer


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> well he thirty,  he is much the same age as a vetron boxer


Just with none of the skills


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Oh heeere we go.
> 
> Jobo don't. This is my expertise. Just... Don't.


well no its not mate, that much is clear,

you seem to know little about himan physiology and performance training.

from the figures youve bragged about your not above averagly strong

so even if you have a point about using brute strengh to over come better tecneque, the guy with the better tecneque is also likely to be stronger than you


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Because the different hand positions work different muscles and different areas. For example diamond press ups vs regular ones. Regular ones your hands are placed apart, and that helps to work your chest,
> 
> diamond press ups your hands are closer together, with your fingers and thumbs forming a diamond  it moves the focus from your chest to your triceps.
> 
> changing in between is to keep the muscular endurance going while staying in the workout instead of just stopping and starting



Bro, Buakaw is a fighter BY TRADE. He has all the time to train PROPERLY. If he was pressed for time it'll make sense, but the dude has hours a day to train. And it's extremely common knowledge in the fitness world that straight sets are far more effective for strength development than SUPERSETS. Supersets and circuits are great for anaerobic conditioning, but NOT building strength! And if the purpose of it all was to train Buakaw's anaerobic endurance, why not just make him do HIIT? Or Tabata? Or several rounds of intense heavy bag hitting? Or sprints?

Also, DUH. Do you seriously think I of all people don't know what diamond push ups train? You may as well have told me that bicep curls work the biceps.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro, Buakaw is a fighter BY TRADE. He has all the time to train PROPERLY. If he was pressed for time it'll make sense, but the dude has hours a day to train. And it's extremely common knowledge in the fitness world that straight sets are far more effective for strength development than SUPERSETS. Supersets and circuits are great for anaerobic conditioning, but NOT building strength! And if the purpose of it all was to train Buakaw's anaerobic endurance, why not just make him do HIIT? Or Tabata? Or several rounds of intense heavy bag hitting? Or sprints?
> 
> Also, DUH. Do you seriously think I of all people don't know what diamond push ups train? You may as well have told me that bicep curls work the biceps.


Just stop now...you’re embarrassing yourself. If a top level fighter is choosing to do it....well I’ll trust his judgement a lot more than I will ever trust yours. 
“I of all people?” Wow just wow


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> Just with none of the skills


he seems a nice guy, i cant make my mind up if he is a wind up or just delusionsl

he asked good questions, then ignores the answer and sets off on a diatribe

if he sets off on his 3 year plan, that will make him 33, thats a bit late to set the boxing world on fire


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro, Buakaw is a fighter BY TRADE. He has all the time to train PROPERLY. If he was pressed for time it'll make sense, but the dude has hours a day to train. And it's extremely common knowledge in the fitness world that straight sets are far more effective for strength development than SUPERSETS. Supersets and circuits are great for anaerobic conditioning, but NOT building strength! And if the purpose of it all was to train Buakaw's anaerobic endurance, why not just make him do HIIT? Or Tabata? Or several rounds of intense heavy bag hitting? Or sprints?
> 
> Also, DUH. Do you seriously think I of all people don't know what diamond push ups train? You may as well have told me that bicep curls work the biceps.


bicep curls only work half the bicep, the bi bit means two, so your only working a cep


----------



## CB Jones (Oct 10, 2020)

We need to keep track of the legendary posters that show up every so often.

Like a Hall of fame.

They really make this board fun sometimes


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> We need to keep track of the legendary posters that show up every so often.
> 
> Like a Hall of fame.
> 
> They really make this board fun sometimes



Will you please watch my YouTube video? Please?


----------



## CB Jones (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Will you please watch my YouTube video? Please?



I did.  Looking forward to watching your experiment.


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro, Buakaw is a fighter BY TRADE. He has all the time to train PROPERLY. If he was pressed for time it'll make sense, but the dude has hours a day to train. And it's extremely common knowledge in the fitness world that straight sets are far more effective for strength development than SUPERSETS. Supersets and circuits are great for anaerobic conditioning, but NOT building strength! And if the purpose of it all was to train Buakaw's anaerobic endurance, why not just make him do HIIT? Or Tabata? Or several rounds of intense heavy bag hitting? Or sprints?
> 
> Also, DUH. Do you seriously think I of all people don't know what diamond push ups train? You may as well have told me that bicep curls work the biceps.


Do you think boxing matches/muay thai fight don't require muscular endurance?


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

_Simon_ said:


> Do you think boxing matches/muay thai fight don't require muscular endurance?


of course they dont if your so strong you end the fight in 10 seconds


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

_Simon_ said:


> Do you think boxing matches/muay thai fight don't require muscular endurance?



They do. And muscle strength is the foundation of muscle endurance. AND SPEED. You can't have the endurance to lift 100 pounds for 20 reps if your max STRENGTH capacity is 101 pounds for one rep.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> They do. And muscle strength is the foundation of muscle endurance. AND SPEED. You can't have the endurance to lift 100 pounds for 20 reps if your max STRENGTH capacity is 101 pounds for one rep.


So when are you actually going to step in a boxing gym


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> So when are you actually going to step in a boxing gym



When they take off the mask restriction here where I live due to COVID-19. I already called the local boxing gym twice. At the second time, I was told they can't resume training anybody until that mask restriction comes off.

And... Kinda unrelated but... Why was the person on the phone, on both occasions, sounded like he was being bothered? I'm a potential paying customer. What the hell.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> When they take off the mask restriction here where I live due to COVID-19. I already called the local boxing gym twice. At the second time, I was told they can't resume training anybody until that mask restriction comes off.
> 
> And... Kinda unrelated but... Why was the person on the phone, on both occasions, sounded like he was being bothered? I'm a potential paying customer. What the hell.


maybe you give off a time waister vib ?


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Oh heeere we go.
> 
> Jobo don't. This is my expertise. Just... Don't.


So you don't listen to anyone's others expertise, but everyone here has to listen to yours. Has it occurred to you that some people on here have spent significant time weightlifting? Not me, but I can think of a few who have.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> They do. And muscle strength is the foundation of muscle endurance. AND SPEED. You can't have the endurance to lift 100 pounds for 20 reps if your max STRENGTH capacity is 101 pounds for one rep.


no its the other way round,  endurance is the foundation of strengh.

there is a strong correlation between what you can lift 10 times and what you can lift once

but as i explained in one of yoyr numerous other threads, the endurance to get through a boxibg match has a significant dependancy on glucose storage in the muscle, and that needs liwxweight and high reps to develop,



when i was a skinny lad, i used to take money off guys with hulkibg bicep at arm wresseling, by the simple exspediancy of watibg till they had just had a very tough match and chalenging them before they had chance to rebew their glucose,  like taking candy from a baby


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> no its the other way round,  endurance is the foundation of strengh.
> 
> there is a strong correlation between what you can lift 10 times and what you can lift once
> 
> ...



This is the official moment I write you off as unintelligent and pretty much ignore all your posts. The stupidity in this one post trumps all you've posted in the past.

I'm not gonna waste my time dismantling the abomination that is your post. I'll just pick one.

Eating donuts WILL NOT improve your endurance.

Goodbye.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So you don't listen to anyone's others expertise, but everyone here has to listen to yours. Has it occurred to you that some people on here have spent significant time weightlifting? Not me, but I can think of a few who have.



Name one, and tell him/her to explain to me how to get stronger. Really, just tell them. Let me see what they got. I will listen.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Name one, and tell him/her to explain to me how to get stronger. Really, just tell them. Let me see what they got. I will listen.


That's on them to identify themselves. If they don't want to engage I'm not going to.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> This is the official moment I write you off as unintelligent and pretty much ignore all your posts. The stupidity in this one post trumps all you've posted in the past.
> 
> I'm not gonna waste my time dismantling the abomination that is your post. I'll just pick one.
> 
> ...


donuts will inprove your endurance, as will any glucose heavy supliment to take in exercise as a means of quickly replacing it, its not the best way, glucose drinks get into the system far quicker, as used by cyclists amongst other atheletes 

better is pasta or rice, to convert to glucose for storage and instant use in the muscle


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> That's on them to identify themselves. If they don't want to engage I'm not going to.



I noticed you're one of the moderators here. I'm thankful to you and the others for tolerating my arrogance and borderline offensiveness. Please, allow me to stay. I am here on a mission. Please, sir. I haven't felt this passionate about something in a long long while.

And also, I really will listen to the experienced lifters here. I HIGHLY doubt they'd one-up me with training knowledge and know-how, but I will read what they have to say.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> donuts will inprove your endurance, as will any glucose heavy supliment to take in exercise as a means of quickly replacing it, its not the best way, glucose drinks get into the system far quicker, as used by cyclists amongst other atheletes
> 
> better is pasta or rice, to convert to glucose for storage and instant use in the muscle


Also a huge thing for diabetics who do any sport especially things like marathon running. My mum was a diabetic but not through lifestyle she was a type 1 who just had it but she was intensely fit I’m not ashamed to say she was mentally stronger than me and would literally run 8 miles at 6 am 4 days a week and entered her first half marathon with no training and completed at a respectable time and she always had to have sweets or sport drink just in case her blood sugars dropped low and a donut would have the same affect as those things so by her eating a donut (or the equivalent) it allowed her to continue her running so it did help her endurance


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> This is the official moment I write you off as unintelligent and pretty much ignore all your posts. The stupidity in this one post trumps all you've posted in the past.
> 
> I'm not gonna waste my time dismantling the abomination that is your post. I'll just pick one.
> 
> ...


But it doesn’t trump the stupidity of yours


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I noticed you're one of the moderators here. I'm thankful to you and the others for tolerating my arrogance and borderline offensiveness. Please, allow me to stay. I am here on a mission. Please, sir. I haven't felt this passionate about something in a long long while.
> 
> And also, I really will listen to the experienced lifters here. I HIGHLY doubt they'd one-up me with training knowledge and know-how, but I will read what they have to say.


Like I said, not on me to state who they are. That's entirely up to them. Whether or not they'd one-up you I don't know, but you are by far the first martial artist to figure out that weightlifting/bodybuilding can increase their strength for fighting.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> But it doesn’t trump the stupidity of yours



I'm erroneous. Not stupid. Big difference.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Like I said, not on me to state who they are. That's entirely up to them. Whether or not they'd one-up you I don't know, but you are by far the first martial artist to figure out that weightlifting/bodybuilding can increase their strength for fighting.



Brock Lesnar broke a man's orbital bone with a sloppy but strong punch, the kind of punch with a lot of strength behind it. The whole concept of relaxation and putting weight behind the punch by flexing at the right moment is EXTREMELY OVERRATED. Foreman could knock people out with arm-punches.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Brock Lesnar broke a man's orbital bone with a sloppy but strong punch, the kind of punch with a lot of strength behind it. The whole concept of relaxation and putting weight behind the punch by flexing at the right moment is EXTREMELY OVERRATED. Foreman could knock people out with arm-punches.


You must’ve missed the post I put up earlier of Brock Lesnar on the floor covered in blood after a much smaller man smashed him to pieces


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Brock Lesnar broke a man's orbital bone with a sloppy but strong punch, the kind of punch with a lot of strength behind it. The whole concept of relaxation and putting weight behind the punch by flexing at the right moment is EXTREMELY OVERRATED. Foreman could knock people out with arm-punches.


you mean gorge foreman? 

the man who punched himself out against ali, coz he was all strengh and no endurance, yes thats a good example to use


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

By @Bee Brian logic this man bob sapp should be the greatest fighter who ever lived and undefeated but instead he has an mma record of 12 wins and 20 losses and a kickboxing record of 12 wins and 19 losses and knocked out in 15 of his 20 mma losses and has numerously been beaten by smaller men than him.


----------



## CB Jones (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> donuts will inprove your endurance, as will any glucose heavy supliment to take in exercise as a means of quickly replacing it, its not the best way, glucose drinks get into the system far quicker, as used by cyclists amongst other atheletes
> 
> better is pasta or rice, to convert to glucose for storage and instant use in the muscle



Beer!  Lol.

In the Academy, the guy that handled our PT was known for drinking a lot every night.....the more he drank the night before the harder PT was going to be for us the next day.  The man could run for days after a good beer bender the night before....lol.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Beer!  Lol.
> 
> In the Academy, the guy that handled our PT was known for drinking a lot every night.....the more he drank the night before the harder PT was going to be for us the next day.  The man could run for days after a good beer bender the night before....lol.


Back when I was in college, I followed up every night of drinking with a 5-10k run. Stairs as well after I got back if I still had energy. 

Probably because I drink significantly less now, but that's definitely no longer the case.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Beer!  Lol.
> 
> In the Academy, the guy that handled our PT was known for drinking a lot every night.....the more he drank the night before the harder PT was going to be for us the next day.  The man could run for days after a good beer bender the night before....lol.


yes the origin of beer in this country possibly europr as a whole  was a cheap food, beer was for breakfast before a hard day tilling the fields


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> yes the origin of beer in this country possibly europr as a whole  was a cheap food, beer was for breakfast before a hard day tilling the fields



I'm sure it started during the Medieval Period. Part of peasants' diet in Europe. And because their beer had less alcohol per ounce, they could drink a lot. It really was a staple in their diet.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> you mean gorge foreman?
> 
> the man who punched himself out against ali, coz he was all strengh and no endurance, yes thats a good example to use



I'll go read about that fight and watch it. I'll then give my input.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'll go read about that fight and watch it. I'll then give my input.


I’m sure it’ll be very insightful with all your valuable experience


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> By @Bee Brian logic this man bob sapp should be the greatest fighter who ever lived and undefeated but instead he has an mma record of 12 wins and 20 losses and a kickboxing record of 12 wins and 19 losses and knocked out in 15 of his 20 mma losses and has numerously been beaten by smaller men than him.
> View attachment 23216



Bro, I know very little about combat sports but I've seen a few fights of Sapp. There is a lower limit to how terrible of a fighter you have to be. Come on. HE SPUN AROUND SLOWLY when getting barraged by strikes. Who the heck does that?

I don't think it's fair to use Sapp as an example of strong men in MMA. A better example would be Brock Lesnar and Kevin Randleman. Sapp is strong, but he's a terrible fighter. Brock is an excellent wrestler AND as strong as Sapp. That's a better example.

And it's not just the big guys. Look at Matt Hughes in the welterweight division. And Rampage Jackson in the light heavyweight division.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro, I know very little about combat sports but I've seen a few fights of Sapp. There is a lower limit to how terrible of a fighter you have to be. Come on. HE SPUN AROUND SLOWLY when getting barraged by strikes. Who the heck does that?
> 
> I don't think it's fair to use Sapp as an example of strong men in MMA. A better example would be Brock Lesnar and Kevin Randleman. Sapp is strong, but he's a terrible fighter. Brock is an excellent wrestler AND as strong as Sapp. That's a better example.
> 
> And it's not just the big guys. Look at Matt Hughes in the welterweight division. And Rampage Jackson in the light heavyweight division.


You mean Brock 5-3 juicer Lesnar?....this Brock Lesnar....yeah 5-3 and struggled against a  a 40 year old light heavyweight And got cut up by him yeah great


----------



## CB Jones (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> yes the origin of beer in this country possibly europr as a whole  was a cheap food, beer was for breakfast before a hard day tilling the fields



Beer.....the original energy drink.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> You mean Brock 5-3 juicer Lesnar?....this Brock Lesnar....yeah 5-3 and struggled against a  a 40 year old light heavyweight And got cut up by him yeah great
> 
> View attachment 23218
> View attachment 23217 View attachment 23219








That's my future. Brock is awesome.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> That's my future. Brock is awesome.


yea,, youl need steriods as well


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> That's my future. Brock is awesome.


Brock Lesnar was a very accomplished high school football player and High school and college wrestler...and takes a lot of steroids....even without the roids and muscles.....he’s had TECHNICAL training he’s not just a weight lifter. I mean he’s a meat headed idiot sure but he’s actually got skills


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> That's my future. Brock is awesome.


This awesome guy?


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> yea,, youl need steriods as well


And decades of wrestling skills. Bro Dude here doesn’t seem to Realize even these big guys need skills and frankly Brock Lesnar was not a very good fighter. He was pushed to the top to draw ticket numbers and ended his career 5-3....


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> yea,, youl need steriods as well



Nah. Doug Hepburn was as strong as Brock and Doug was natural. Extreme levels of strength can be achieved naturally if you know what you're doing and are willing to go through the work. Believe me, lmao. I know.

And you can tell Doug was natural because he was FAT. Steroids are amazing fat burners. Doug never had a good-looking physique. He just had the raw mass and frame due to great genes.

I myself have the genes of a short Paul Anderson.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Nah. Doug Hepburn was as strong as Brock and Doug was natural. Extreme levels of strength can be achieved naturally if you know what you're doing and are willing to go through the work. Believe me, lmao. I know.
> 
> And you can tell Doug was natural because he was FAT. Steroids are amazing fat burners. Doug never had a good-looking physique. He just had the raw mass and frame due to great genes.
> 
> I myself have the genes of a short Paul Anderson.


So was josh Barnett and he was on steroids so was frank mir when he got popped for steroids....what nonsense you going to tell us next


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> This awesome guy?



Silly man.

He had more wins than losses.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Silly man.
> 
> He had more wins than losses.


Yeah....2 more wowwwwww best of the best right there. Especially when 2 of those wins were handpicked. One moo soo Kim a guy who was 3-7 and another a kickboxer with 0 wrestling so a nice hand picked win and his bad record...all while he was roiding up


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

KOKarate said:


> So was josh Barnett and he was on steroids so was frank mir when he got popped for steroids....what nonsense you going to tell us next



There. Are. Exceptions. To. Every. Rule.

You and I have polarizing aptitudes. Yours is about tricks. Mine is about being noble. I attack head on. You are an elusive cheater.

To be fair, I'll likely end up becoming like you. But only if my full-frontal assault will fail. And I'll conquer with pure muscle. I will not fail.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> There. Are. Exceptions. To. Every. Rule.
> 
> You and I have polarizing aptitudes. Yours is about tricks. Mine is about being noble. I attack head on. You are an elusive cheater.
> 
> To be fair, I'll likely end up becoming like you. But only if my full-frontal assault will fail. And I'll conquer with pure muscle. I will not fail.



.....what exactly have I cheated in


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Nah. Doug Hepburn was as strong as Brock and Doug was natural. Extreme levels of strength can be achieved naturally if you know what you're doing and are willing to go through the work. Believe me, lmao. I know.
> 
> And you can tell Doug was natural because he was FAT. Steroids are amazing fat burners. Doug never had a good-looking physique. He just had the raw mass and frame due to great genes.
> 
> I myself have the genes of a short Paul Anderson.


This comes back to the issue of time though. If you're a strongman, you have a lot more time to focus on weightlifting/increasing strength. If you're a fighter, the amount of time you spend to that needs to take a backseat if you want to do well. Otherwise, all the top fighters would spend most of their time weightlifting and just a few months training actual skills before fighting.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This comes back to the issue of time though. If you're a strongman, you have a lot more time to focus on weightlifting/increasing strength. If you're a fighter, the amount of time you spend to that needs to take a backseat if you want to do well. Otherwise, all the top fighters would spend most of their time weightlifting and just a few months training actual skills before fighting.



It depends on your strategy. Allow me to use military metaphors, please...

I'm the kind of guy where if I was in charge of a grand war, my nation against another nation, I'd spend every waking hour grabbing people to join my army, grabbing gear for them, throwing fat salaries at them, boosting their morale, and giving them generous rations. That to me comes first BEFORE strategy. You can't win a chess match with one pawn.

Other people would spend every waking hour planning things with their generals and consulting strategy manuals for clever formations and maneuvers. I'm not that kind of guy.

Martial arts is the same way. It's an ART. I have my way of expressing myself, others do. As important as winning, you also need to stay true to what you want instead of dancing around with the rules. You gotta make a sensation by putting on a show, Rocky Balboa style.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Nah. Doug Hepburn was as strong as Brock and Doug was natural. Extreme levels of strength can be achieved naturally if you know what you're doing and are willing to go through the work. Believe me, lmao. I know.
> 
> And you can tell Doug was natural because he was FAT. Steroids are amazing fat burners. Doug never had a good-looking physique. He just had the raw mass and frame due to great genes.
> 
> I myself have the genes of a short Paul Anderson.


are you sure ?coz you look fat in that video, maybe no one has told your genes


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> are you sure ?coz you look fat in that video, maybe no one has told your genes



Paul Anderson was fat. I'm fat. But that's not the point. It's the thick hips and thick legs. And a natural aptitude for heavy squatting.

And if I'm fat, you're an idiot. And I am undoubtedly fat.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Paul Anderson was fat. I'm fat. But that's not the point. It's the thick hips and thick legs. And a natural aptitude for heavy squatting.
> 
> And if I'm fat, you're an idiot. And I am undoubtedly fat.


that will be all donuts, then


----------



## drop bear (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Paul Anderson was fat. I'm fat. But that's not the point. It's the thick hips and thick legs. And a natural aptitude for heavy squatting.
> 
> And if I'm fat, you're an idiot. And I am undoubtedly fat.



So how much do you weigh? and what weight do you want to fight at?


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> So how much do you weigh? and what weight do you want to fight at?


if he is 6 foot tall he must weigh 300lbs

so that will be heavy weight i guess


----------



## Highlander (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Here.


Haven't got through this whole thread yet. Idk if I will haha. Just a quick question whats your starting weight ? The amount of weight lifted isn't as important as the percentage of your bodyweight the weight is. For example if you weight 150 lbs that would be an almost professional level lift. But if you weight 300 (not saying you do) thats a very low beginner weight

Strength Level - Weightlifting Calculator (Bench/Squat/Deadlift)


Also did you change your mind about the upper body is where all the power comes from ? In the video you say the upper body is just for looks.

Goodluck on your journey! I hope you lift a **** ton of weight and lose even more! But be willing to listen to the people that are trying to help you


----------



## Highlander (Oct 10, 2020)

@Bee Brian 




Good example of technique>strength


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> that will be all donuts, then





Highlander said:


> Haven't got through this whole thread yet. Idk if I will haha. Just a quick question whats your starting weight ? The amount of weight lifted isn't as important as the percentage of your bodyweight the weight is. For example if you weight 150 lbs that would be an almost professional level lift. But if you weight 300 (not saying you do) thats a very low beginner weight
> 
> Strength Level - Weightlifting Calculator (Bench/Squat/Deadlift)
> 
> ...



 I'm 5'6 and 250 pounds.

I wanna get down to 170.


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'm 5'6 and 250 pounds.
> 
> I wanna get down to 170.


what your likely to find is, as you bulk drops,, your weight in some lift will also drop like a stone, that because your using your body mass to counter act the weight to some degree

so youl have to up the strengh training considerably to be as weak as you are now


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 10, 2020)

jobo said:


> what your likely to find is, as you bulk drops,, your weight in some lift will also drop like a stone, that because your using your body mass to counter act the weight to some degree
> 
> so youl have to up the strengh training considerably to be as weak as you are now



I'd bet against it. But words are air. I'll prove it with my actions.

I'm not as good physically now with my age, but my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike. And it'll get better.

There have been crazy old men with amazing numbers in their lifts. I can conquer my goals.


----------



## KOKarate (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'd bet against it. But words are air. I'll prove it with my actions.
> 
> I'm not as good physically now with my age, but my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike. And it'll get better.
> 
> There have been crazy old men with amazing numbers in their lifts. I can conquer my goals.


“Almost godlike”

oh my....


----------



## jobo (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'd bet against it. But words are air. I'll prove it with my actions.
> 
> I'm not as good physically now with my age, but my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike. And it'll get better.
> 
> There have been crazy old men with amazing numbers in their lifts. I can conquer my goals.


your age, ? i thought you were 30, thats as good as it gets,  your in your prime years

i am a crazy old man thats lifting more than you!


----------



## _Simon_ (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> They do. And muscle strength is the foundation of muscle endurance. AND SPEED. You can't have the endurance to lift 100 pounds for 20 reps if your max STRENGTH capacity is 101 pounds for one rep.



Yeah, but you were trashing a pro fighter's methods in which he was clearly working on muscular endurance in different leverage positions for higher reps. If you've fought for extended periods of time, you'd know that your arms get tired from keeping them held up in guard.

Having a good 1RM in bench won't help that. It will elevate your potential 20/30/40RM, but if you don't do the sort of endurance work your musculature won't have acclimatised and simply won't be used to that.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to have to prove yourself... but you really don't have to do that anymore. You don't have to appear 'tough' or 'strong', if you're doing all this to prove something to yourself, well how long can that go? I've seen people keep that up indefinitely due to insecurities within themselves that they're unwilling to look at...

You don't have to be right, or know all the answers. And you don't have to prove you're tough. You seem to just constantly want to prove points. Why? Doesn't seem like a healthy mindset or way to live in general...

It's great to have goals. Goals with integrity that are filled with passion that light you up. It is however another whole thing to be on the defensive all your life, trying to prove points and prove you were 'right'. Cos I tell ya, whatever you 'prove' to us will be long forgotten fairly soon... don't worry about changing our minds or enlightening anyone, feels like quite a burden you've put on yourself...

All just food for thought of course, up to you what you do with it.


----------



## CB Jones (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> but my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike.



Its your humility that impresses me.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Watch it. I addressed people here in Martial Talk specifically.


Not concisely, apparently.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Listen, Karate boy, that's at best 10% of the whole content.
> 
> Give me a bone man, I'm trying hard to be a YouTube star.
> 
> I also showed that I'm an avid player of the game Final Fantasy 14. Just watch it and click like if you like it.


So, it seems you ranged far and wide in that. But you haven’t convinced me it’s worth watching. Any bonus tracks or outtakes?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

drop bear said:


> You would be amazed at how many people think they have the game breaking system that the successful coaches and fighters haven't thought of.


I still run into that thinking from time to time in some SD-oriented dojos.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Yeah and I'm one of them.
> 
> Do you want empirical evidence that lots of coaches are complete idiots? Literally it's everywhere in all competitive sports. Go watch one of the training videos of Buakaw where a soft-bellied coach had the legend do push ups with alternating hand positions in mid repetition. Buakaw literally trained better without that tool hovering around him. And Buakaw, like any enlightened fighter, was lifting weights.


I’m not sure you understand what “empirical evidence” is.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I coached my classmates back in Job Corps in volleyball and we won two matches after they were on a losing streak for YEARS. Before I volunteered, my teacher was already expecting our whole class to be eaten alive.
> 
> That's the only thing that I will consider to count even though I've trained multiple people in the gym, even my mom. Because for all I know, they just quit whatever training program I gave them. And I've been told I'd make a good fitness trainer by a no-nonsense friend.
> 
> ...


All of which is entirely unrelated to boxing. The drive will help......if you bother to train in a manner that improves boxing skill.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Oh heeere we go.
> 
> Jobo don't. This is my expertise. Just... Don't.


If you don’t understand this basic concept, then it’s not your area of expertise.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Eating donuts WILL NOT improve your endurance.


You might want to actually read posts you reply to.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Name one, and tell him/her to explain to me how to get stronger. Really, just tell them. Let me see what they got. I will listen.


Based on past behavior, that seems unlikely.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I noticed you're one of the moderators here. I'm thankful to you and the others for tolerating my arrogance and borderline offensiveness. Please, allow me to stay. I am here on a mission. Please, sir. I haven't felt this passionate about something in a long long while.
> 
> And also, I really will listen to the experienced lifters here. I HIGHLY doubt they'd one-up me with training knowledge and know-how, but I will read what they have to say.


Borderline?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Bro, I know very little about combat sports but I've seen a few fights of Sapp. There is a lower limit to how terrible of a fighter you have to be. Come on. HE SPUN AROUND SLOWLY when getting barraged by strikes. Who the heck does that?
> 
> I don't think it's fair to use Sapp as an example of strong men in MMA. A better example would be Brock Lesnar and Kevin Randleman. Sapp is strong, but he's a terrible fighter. Brock is an excellent wrestler AND as strong as Sapp. That's a better example.
> 
> And it's not just the big guys. Look at Matt Hughes in the welterweight division. And Rampage Jackson in the light heavyweight division.


So NOW technique matters?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 10, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'd bet against it. But words are air. I'll prove it with my actions.
> 
> I'm not as good physically now with my age, but my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike. And it'll get better.
> 
> There have been crazy old men with amazing numbers in their lifts. I can conquer my goals.


Your humility is impressive, too.


----------



## lklawson (Oct 14, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I'm sure it started during the Medieval Period. Part of peasants' diet in Europe. And because their beer had less alcohol per ounce, they could drink a lot. It really was a staple in their diet.


Beer goes back to Pharoic Egypt.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2020)

lklawson said:


> Beer goes back to Pharoic Egypt.


Not if I get my hands on it, it doesn't.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 14, 2020)

lklawson said:


> Beer goes back to Pharoic Egypt.



I know. I simply mentioned stuff about beer in the Medieval Period. I didn't say beer was invented in the Medieval Period.


----------



## lklawson (Oct 15, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> I know. I simply mentioned stuff about beer in the Medieval Period. I didn't say beer was invented in the Medieval Period.


The thesis was that beer was a dietary staple for a couple of reasons; among them that it provided a relatively high caloric source.  You claimed that "it started during the Medieval Period." (your post here)  It didn't.  Beer as a dietary staple and food source goes back at least to the pyramid builders.  They were paid in beer.  They drank 10 pints a day.  It was a food source and you can buy re-creations of it today.  ( A Brew Fit For The Gods Food Historian Recreates Ancient Egyptian Beer Using A 5000yearold Recip | Go-Wine ).

References to beer as a daily consumable, and probable food source, are also seen in the Ballad of Gilgamesh, though the pyramids clearly pre-date that.

Compared to 2,589 B.C., the Medieval folks at somewhere from 300-ish A.D. to around 1600-ish A.D., are newbies.

See a pattern?  Newbies?  Compared to folks with vastly more experience? ...Bueller?  ...Bueller?


----------



## Yokozuna514 (Oct 15, 2020)

lklawson said:


> Ballad of Gilgamesh


I don't often run into references about the Ballad of Gilgamesh and I certainly didn't expect it here on a MA forum but whenever I do it brings a smile to my face.  Good on you for bringing up the oldest written story of man into a relevant discussion.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 15, 2020)

lklawson said:


> The thesis was that beer was a dietary staple for a couple of reasons; among them that it provided a relatively high caloric source.  You claimed that "it started during the Medieval Period." (your post here)  It didn't.  Beer as a dietary staple and food source goes back at least to the pyramid builders.  They were paid in beer.  They drank 10 pints a day.  It was a food source and you can buy re-creations of it today.  ( A Brew Fit For The Gods Food Historian Recreates Ancient Egyptian Beer Using A 5000yearold Recip | Go-Wine ).
> 
> References to beer as a daily consumable, and probable food source, are also seen in the Ballad of Gilgamesh, though the pyramids clearly pre-date that.
> 
> ...



Hey, don't make me use my weightlifting skills against you.


----------



## lklawson (Oct 15, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> Hey, don't make me use my weightlifting skills against you.


Both Hercules and Sampson were stronger than you.  And they were both trained in martial arts.


----------



## Bee Brian (Oct 15, 2020)

lklawson said:


> Both Hercules and Sampson were stronger than you.  And they were both trained in martial arts.



Oh so now you're comparing me to demigods and God's champions. That's insanely flattering. I'll go buy you a... Beer.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 15, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Just so you know, those aren't the primary colors. Depends whether you're talking about pigments or light sources, but neither has Red-Yellow-Blue as their base.
> 
> And that's about how accurate your assesment of punching power is, too. You've got some ideas that have some foundation, but you're missing a significant part of that foundation.



Were you joking?  Because RYB is definitely a very commonly used primary color set.

RYB color model - Wikipedia



Rat said:


> Both CMYK and RBY are used for pigment/printing.   Did a breif look, painting is RBY, printing is CMYK based.     And i was personally taught RBY in art if i recall correctly.     It weird, there is like 4 colour systems used, and thats why thw wiki pages for colours have like 4 colour mixtures listed for the diffrent systems both for digital and manual colours.



Oops, didn't realize you beat me to it.  RBY is definitely a thing.


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 15, 2020)

Finally got through this whole thread.

I was just gonna say, "no", upper body strength has nothing to do with punching power.

As a proof, lay on your back and try punching a target above you, then get on your knees and punch a target on the ground, and you'll immediately see the big difference in punching power you have.


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## geezer (Oct 15, 2020)

Bee Brian said:


> ...my psychological state and wisdom is leagues ahead, almost godlike.



I would doubt that ...unless you're thinking of the Greek god, _Koalemos.
_
Regarding your "psychological state", your remarks bring to mind social psychologists David Dunning and Justin Kruger's famous study, "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments".


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## jobo (Oct 15, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> Finally got through this whole thread.
> 
> I was just gonna say, "no", upper body strength has nothing to do with punching power.
> 
> As a proof, lay on your back and try punching a target above you, then get on your knees and punch a target on the ground, and you'll immediately see the big difference in punching power you have.



thats coz you can get your elbows back far enough or at all


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## Gangster D (Oct 18, 2020)

Oily Dragon said:


> Finally got through this whole thread.
> 
> I was just gonna say, "no", upper body strength has nothing to do with punching power.
> 
> As a proof, lay on your back and try punching a target above you, then get on your knees and punch a target on the ground, and you'll immediately see the big difference in punching power you have.


All parts of the body are important in the power of the puncher. If you translate this video, you will learn a lot of good information. At 2:34 and 6:34 minutes, you can see how the hand absorbs and loses a lot of punch force. This video says that hard-hitting fighters have strong hands. After all, it is the hand that transmits hundreds of kilograms of punch mass to the target


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 28, 2020)

jobo said:


> thats coz you can get your elbows back far enough or at all



That, and gravity.


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## Oily Dragon (Oct 29, 2020)

Gangster D said:


> All parts of the body are important in the power of the puncher.



I worded that really poorly.  I should not have said "nothing".  It is not just about upper body strength.

All that body mechanic stuff factors in, but nothing as much as gravity the seducer.

Without using gravity properly, you're not moving a single gram of mass, so it's all about using gravity properly and upper body strength isn't all that.


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## Rusty B (Nov 4, 2020)

Ramsey Dewey once said it best:  Martial arts is not about the lack of muscles, it's about the most efficient use of muscles.  That being said, you're always better off with a good amount of muscle than without.

I'll give an analogy: someone who makes $50K a year and manages their money properly will live much better than someone who makes $75K and manages their money poorly.

But if they both manage their money properly, the person who makes $75K a year will be better off.


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