# Safety tips for runners



## Paul_D (Nov 10, 2017)

I found this interesting as it has tips for defence against dogs, which is not something I've come across before.

https://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevention/Crime_prevention pdf/Safety Tips for Runners.pdf

[Sarcasm]
Ofcourse, all of it should be totally ignored because it has nothing to do with men getting into bar fights, which according to the people on my ignore list is the only situation in which a person ever needs to defend themselves.  Also, none of it is of any use, as it will in no way increase your ability to beat another man in a bar fight, which apparently is the thing anyone ever needs.   But still, it's was interesting.
[/sarcasm]


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## MA_Student (Nov 10, 2017)

Here's my defence for a dog. It comes to attack you then kick it. I love animals but I'm not getting ripped apart by a dog just because I like animals.


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 10, 2017)

MA_Student said:


> Here's my defence for a dog. It comes to attack you then kick it. I love animals but I'm not getting ripped apart by a dog just because I like animals.


Glad it is so easy to defeat a dog.  It is curious however why all those criminals who face a police dog end up bleeding from all over and scream their heads off in terror when all they had to do was kick it.


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## MA_Student (Nov 10, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> Glad it is so easy to defeat a dog.  It is curious however why all those criminals who face a police dog end up bleeding from all over and scream their heads off in terror when all they had to do was kick it.


Yeah because lying still on the ground is a much better option


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## JR 137 (Nov 10, 2017)

Even better advice...
Buy a treadmill online and have it shipped to your home.  Have the delivery guy leave it on your porch, then bring it in as quickly as you can, but obviously waiting for him to get back in his truck and drive away.

Never take a chance.


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## JR 137 (Nov 10, 2017)

MA_Student said:


> Here's my defence for a dog. It comes to attack you then kick it. I love animals but I'm not getting ripped apart by a dog just because I like animals.


I had a dog run down the street straight at me in full attack mode.  I just ran straight at it yelling.  Once it got about 5 feet in front of me, it turned around and ran the opposite way.

It wasn’t a breed like a pit bull, Rottweiler, Doberman, etc., so it’s not like I ran off a viscous and rabid dog by any means.  It was a Labrador-sized mutt.


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## JR 137 (Nov 10, 2017)

Any advice for defense against crocks?  We have a strong Aussie contingent here.


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## MA_Student (Nov 10, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Any advice for defense against crocks?  We have a strong Aussie contingent here.


Prey that your running has helped your cardio and sprint like hell lol


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## JR 137 (Nov 10, 2017)

MA_Student said:


> Prey that your running has helped your cardio and sprint like hell lol


I was thinking throw a puppy, infant, etc. one way, and run like hell the other way.  Hopefully the croc goes after the easier prey.


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## Steve (Nov 10, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> I found this interesting as it has tips for defence against dogs, which is not something I've come across before.
> 
> https://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevention/Crime_prevention pdf/Safety Tips for Runners.pdf
> ]


similar advice to what was given to my daughter by her cross country coach.   Any reason why pepper spray is a bad idea if the dog actually attacks?


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 10, 2017)

MA_Student said:


> Yeah because lying still on the ground is a much better option



When dogs attack
*"How to avoid being bitten*
_If you are confronted by an aggressive dog, the most important thing to remember is this: Stay calm. Don’t give in to fear or anxiety, *and don’t start yelling or kicking at the dog*. An aggressive dog wants you to be stressed out before it attacks, but if you remain calm and in control, it slows them down and throws them off."_

_"When the dog senses that you aren’t threatening it — and are not threatened by it — it will probably lose interest and the situation will de-escalate."_
_
How to Handle a Dog Attack

*"Do not try to run away.* Running away can awaken the dog's prey instinct to chase and catch animals. He may pursue you vigorously "
_
so the lesson here is that aggressive behavior by you will increase your chances of being bitten.  if your already getting bitten then fine try to kick it and follow the advise from the wiki link.  but if it was soooo easy to do law enforcement and military though out the ages would not have used dogs.


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 10, 2017)

Steve said:


> similar advice to what was given to my daughter by her cross country coach.   Any reason why pepper spray is a bad idea if the dog actually attacks?


i dont see where it says pepper spray is a bad idea.  am i missing something?   the only reason i would think it is not advised would be due to local laws on the possession of OC spray.
i have read that formulations with CN in it are not useful when used against dogs.  CN is more an inhaled irritant than a topical eye irritant.  there are pepper sprays specifically made for dogs.  i have no data on the difference between people spray and dog spray.


EDIT:
in my opinion i wouldnt use a bear spray either.  bear spray acts as a localized fogger that the bear runs through and they have supper sensitive noses.
the average dogs nose is 100 times better than a human while a bear is 2100 times better than a human


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## Steve (Nov 10, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> i dont see where it says pepper spray is a bad idea.  am i missing something?   the only reason i would think it is not advised would be due to local laws on the possession of OC spray.
> i have read that formulations with CN in it are not useful when used against dogs.  CN is more an inhaled irritant than a topical eye irritant.  there are pepper sprays specifically made for dogs.  i have no data on the difference between people spray and dog spray.
> 
> 
> ...


Article didn’t say anything about pepper spray one way or the other, that I saw.   I was asking if there is any reason why it wouldn’t work, because it seems like it would be a pretty simple thing to carry.   I was just asking the question.


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## geezer (Nov 10, 2017)

Dogs are weird. I absolutely love 'em, but they can really surprise you. 

One night way back when I was in my twenties I jumped a high chain link fence topped with barbed-wire to get into a "junk yard" in a downtown industrial area. It was being rented by a friend of mine and being operated as an art space. I had done this numerous times before, and even knew the best place to get over the fence (at the corner of the gate where you could set your feet on the hinges and get over the barb wire without getting snagged). 

So anyway, I hopped the fence, dropped down inside and walked about ten yards, when out of the shadows ahead a big, black, doberman charged me. There was no way to make it back over the fence in time, so I just raised my arms in front of me to guard my throat, and knew I was _totally screwed_. As anticipated, the doby lunged, slammed into my chest nearly knocking me flat ...and slobbered all over me, all the while ferociously wagging his long, uncut tail. 

A few minutes later, my friend emerged from the service shed on the property saying, "Oh I see you've met my new guard dog. His name is _Crack._"

In the subsequent years, I had a similar experiences with a Rottweiler and also a Pitt Bull. Both scary as hell, and both really _friendly_ ...at least to me. Then the other day I walked over to the corner cafe for my morning coffee and muffin. While crossing the coffee-shop patio with my food, a nondescript little mutt shot out from under a table, pulling it's leash right out of it's inattentive owners hand. In an instant, it savagely attacked my leg, totally shredding a new pair of jeans from the thigh to the ankle. I managed to jerk away and somehow got free without it breaking the skin ...largely through luck since it's initial bite struck the bulge where I had stuck_ my wallet _in the front pocket of my pants.

No issues with a doby, a rott and a pitt bull. Then this little  aussy-shepherd mix almost rips me apart. Like I say, _dogs are weird. _


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## CB Jones (Nov 10, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> _When the dog senses that you aren’t threatening it — and are not threatened by it — it will probably lose interest and the situation will de-escalate."_



*If it has teeth......don't trust it!*

When I worked Patrol, I worked a very rural area.  One night, I worked a series of crashes over a few miles caused by a drunk driver driving down the shoulder of the road running over mailboxes.  After booking the driver in jail for DWI, I went from house to house informing people their mailboxes had been destroyed and providing them with the driver's insurance info.

I pull up to a farm house and saw this docile Australian Shepard laying on the front porch.  It laid there, never barking, looking at my car..........until I stepped out of my car.....then it became Cujo 2.0.  It jumped off the porch and made a bee line for me barking and growling......I jumped back inside my car as the owner ran out the house yelling "don't get out!"

Once back inside my car....I was reminded by Cujo....that my window was completely down.  As I rushed to roll the window up while trying to knock Cujo 2.0 (who was now trying to come through the open window all the while snarling and biting at me) back out the window with my flashlight....the owner gets to the car and gets hold of Cujo 2.0.

After putting Cujo 2.0 up, he comes back and tells me I can get out of the car now......Heck no....through the half rolled down window I handed him the driver's insurance info and took my wounded ego and left.


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## geezer (Nov 10, 2017)

CB is right. Years ago I remember trying out my clumsy school-learned Spanish in conversation with a latino co-worker and recited the aphorism, _El perro que ladra no muerde_ (The dog that barks doesn't bite).

I still remember his response: _No lo crees. Los perros mienten_ (Don't believe it. Dogs lie).


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## Martial D (Nov 10, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> I found this interesting as it has tips for defence against dogs, which is not something I've come across before.
> 
> https://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevention/Crime_prevention pdf/Safety Tips for Runners.pdf
> 
> ...


In addition to this rather insightful list, I would like to add;

Drink water when you are thirsty.

If you find a strange lump on your body, seek a physician

Do not stare directly into the sun.

Remember to continue breathing at all times.


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## drop bear (Nov 10, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> I found this interesting as it has tips for defence against dogs, which is not something I've come across before.
> 
> https://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevention/Crime_prevention pdf/Safety Tips for Runners.pdf
> 
> ...



I have worked with attack dogs by the way. This was a conversion that came up a bit just in case they got loose.


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## drop bear (Nov 10, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Any advice for defense against crocks?  We have a strong Aussie contingent here.








one idea I liked was if you are at a suspect water source throw some pebbles away from you as the croc goes for that get your water quick and nick off.

https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes/2017/extras/clips/clip-cj9cefiw500370gmfuvduiqhi


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## geezer (Nov 11, 2017)

Boy, these cute public service announcements are a little different down under! They've got a similar problem with gators in Florida, but I can't imagine the govt. approving a cute cartoon like that that shows a hip, funny alligator biting off little kids and grannys' heads and blood spouting out of their severed necks. More's the pity!


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## Paul_D (Nov 12, 2017)

Steve said:


> similar advice to what was given to my daughter by her cross country coach.   Any reason why pepper spray is a bad idea if the dog actually attacks?


I can't remember where, but I do remember there is one country where you can legally carry pepper spray for dog attacks.


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## Paul_D (Nov 12, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> Glad it is so easy to defeat a dog.  It is curious however why all those criminals who face a police dog end up bleeding from all over and scream their heads off in terror when all they had to do was kick it.


Maybe they're doing the wrong kick?  It has to be an MMA kick, otherwise it doesn't work for SD 

On a more serious note, it probably does work, but criminals natural instinct is to run away, especially when you have a police dog coming at you.  So it may work in the few cases people have tried it, but in most cases I would imagine they run away and don't think of kicking.  I guess the best person to ask is a police dog handler, see if they have experience of it?


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## drop bear (Nov 12, 2017)




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## jobo (Nov 12, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> Maybe they're doing the wrong kick?  It has to be an MMA kick, otherwise it doesn't work for SD
> 
> On a more serious note, it probably does work, but criminals natural instinct is to run away, especially when you have a police dog coming at you.  So it may work in the few cases people have tried it, but in most cases I would imagine they run away and don't think of kicking.  I guess the best person to ask is a police dog handler, see if they have experience of it?


i suspect it would need  to a particularly powerful well timed/ aimed kick to prevent 80lbs of bones fur and muscle, flying through the air from bitting you,


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## hoshin1600 (Nov 12, 2017)

I have no experience in being cased by police k-9 units but it seems to me that often the handlers send in dogs when the subject is hiding or holed up in a way that it is difficult for the officer to enter safety and only after repeated commands to come out.


We are getting a little bit of thread drift here. The original OP was about runners and everyday dogs who are overly aggressive or territorial.


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## jobo (Nov 12, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> I have no experience in being cased by police k-9 units but it seems to me that often the handlers send in dogs when the subject is hiding or holed up in a way that it is difficult for the officer to enter safety and only after repeated commands to come out.
> 
> 
> We are getting a little bit of thread drift here. The original OP was about runners and everyday dogs who are overly aggressive or territorial.


every day dogs can be more dangerous than trained ones, of course that partly depends what sort of dog it is and why and how much it is annoyed,

I've never actually had the slightest problem with dogs going for me, running or otherwise, though i suppose its a remote possibility


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