# A Future Serial Killer...



## celtic_crippler (Oct 3, 2008)

... if I ever saw one! 



> *SYDNEY, Australia   A blank-faced 7-year-old boy broke into a popular Outback zoo, fed a string of animals to the resident crocodile and bashed several lizards to death with a rock, the zoo's director said Friday. *




Entire article here -> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432085,00.html


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

Kind of young.  I hope he gets help soon; there may be hope for him.


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## BrandiJo (Oct 3, 2008)

pitty they cant charge him with anything, the kiddo needs help, or he will be the next Jeffery Dahmer


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## MA-Caver (Oct 3, 2008)

BrandiJo said:


> pitty they cant charge him with anything, the kiddo needs help, or he will be the next Jeffery Dahmer


Or a real life Michael Myers... Sad indeed... once again the question raises it's ugly head... "WHERE WERE THE PARENTS??" 7 yrs old wandering around the zoo like that? Climbing into animal enclosures... they're lucky the kid didn't manage to climb into the croc's enclosure. 
Maybe they can't press charges against the child but surely they can press 'em against his parents? Negligence on knowing where a child this young is at any given moment. 
Hard to say what the mentality is of the boy. Sounds like he does probably need help, given that he obviously doesn't know it was wrong to kill the animals... in the manner that he did it. 
Sad. 

Future serial killer? :idunno: Who is to say. I think that symptom is becoming rather cliche if you ask me.


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## Sukerkin (Oct 3, 2008)

How differently we can view the same information.  

I saw this on the BBC and my first thought was that it was a pity the little {expletives deleted} didn't manage to get in with the crocodile and save everyone a lot of trouble further down the line.

I shall go and review the news in a more detailed fashion to see if my initial impression was a very wrong one.


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## elder999 (Oct 3, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> How differently we can view the same information.
> 
> I saw this on the BBC and my first thought was that it was a pity the little {expletives deleted} didn't manage to get in with the crocodile and save everyone a lot of trouble further down the line.
> 
> I shall go and review the news in a more detailed fashion to see if my initial impression was a very wrong one.


 
Don't bother-it wasn't.

This kid needs a lot of help, and it might not help at all.  Psycopaths are good at masking their insanity-he may already  have figured this out, and display the "proper" amount of regret and remorse. In fact, the only real regret he might have is that he was obviously unaware of the cameras.....I say feed the little bastard to the croc *now*, and save his parents, his future psychiatrist,the police, the courts, and future victims a whole lot of grief later.

Of course, a psychiatrist might be delighted by the opportunity to _study_ the monster-that's just what my mom (the shrink (child psychologist)) said, _"I'd like to study that little monster."_


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

I know I'm not going to make any friends by saying this, but since not too many of you seem to have hands-on experience having a child with mental illness ... here goes:

It's rare that any psychologist will diagnose a child so young because there is a certain amount of explorative behavior that is considered "normal." For example, squishing spiders, stomping mice and rats, pulling legs and wings off of flies, etcetera.  

I'll concede that graduating to larger animals, especially those in cages, is usually an excellent indicator of a severe problem requiring serious intervention.  But not much is said of the boy himself other than his deeds.

I googled and found the article in domestic and foreign media and they all say virtually the same thing with no further information on the child.  Perhaps he already has a diagnosis.

I don't stand up for murderers or cold-blooded killers ... but I find it reprehensible that a 7 year old boy (who clearly has some sort of problem he has no choice over) has his very life coveted with zero explanation.

I hope he gets the help and intervention he requires - even if that requires institutionalization. And I pray for his parents.


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## celtic_crippler (Oct 3, 2008)

I think there's a huge difference between pulling wings off of flies and bashing a large 20 year old beloved reptiles skull in with a rock. But that's just me.


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> I think there's a huge difference between pulling wings off of flies and bashing a large 20 year old beloved reptiles skull in with a rock. But that's just me.



I did concede that.  But to rue a child's life is not much better, IMHO.


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## elder999 (Oct 3, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I did concede that. But to rue a child's life is not much better, IMHO.


 

Sorry-my tongue was maybe not so firmly in cheek with my comments, apropos of the "death penalty" threads in the Study. Naturally, no one is going to feed him to the croc, and hopefully, he'll get the help he needs. That said, if he is a psycopath, there probably isn't much that can be done for him. His lack of affect and acting alone do somewhat point to his being psycopathic. This was *not*, IMNSHO, "normal" explorative behavior. While maybe he held some sort of grudge against the zoo, or had some other motivation that isn't mentioned, it sounds more than a little "off," as in maybe "off the charts...."

And, for what it's worth, I *do* have hands-on experience with a child/adolescent with mental illness-though not one who is clearly a potential psycopath.In fact, my nephew has mild Asperger's Disorder. He would *never* do anything like this kid did.


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Sorry-my tongue was maybe not so firmly in cheek with my comments. Naturally, no one is going to feed him to the croc, and hopefully, he'll get the help he needs. That said, if he is a psycopath, there probably isn't much that can be done for him. His lack of affect and acting alone do somewhat point to his being psycopathic. This was *not*, IMNSHO, "normal" explorative behavior. While maybe he held some sort of grudge against the zoo, or had some other motivation that isn't mentioned, it sounds more than a little "off," as in maybe "off the charts...."
> 
> And, for what it's worth, I *do* have hands-on experience with a child/adolescent with mental illness-though not one who is clearly a potential psycopath.In fact, my nephew has mild Asperger's Disorder. He would *never* do anything like this kid did.


I agree that it certainly doesn't sound like normal explorative behavior.

Again - I hope there will be no delay in getting him and his family the help they are clearly going to need.  

What I specifically object to is commentary suggesting his life should have just been ended.  This isn't an adult making asinine, monstrous decisions. He is a child likely without any choice of what's happening in his head.  

Please know I think the situation is dire and that there is likely little hope for him.  But I will not call him out for his life and think to do so is disgusting. Sorry.

Oh, and some of us might argue that Asperger's is not exactly a "mental" illness.  But that's ... another discussion.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 3, 2008)

elder999 said:


> Sorry-my tongue was maybe not so firmly in cheek with my comments. Naturally, no one is going to feed him to the croc, and hopefully, he'll get the help he needs. That said, if he is a psycopath, there probably isn't much that can be done for him. His lack of affect and acting alone do somewhat point to his being psycopathic. This was *not*, IMNSHO, "normal" explorative behavior. While maybe he held some sort of grudge against the zoo, or had some other motivation that isn't mentioned, it sounds more than a little "off," as in maybe "off the charts...."
> 
> And, for what it's worth, I *do* have hands-on experience with a child/adolescent with mental illness-though not one who is clearly a potential psycopath.In fact, my nephew has mild Asperger's Disorder. He would *never* do anything like this kid did.


Question is HOW did he become a psychopath? They aren't born... they're made. SOMETHING happened to the kid that got him where he is. Blank expression on his face is likely a shut down of what's hurting inside and the "aggression" towards the animals is the manifestation of the hurt, an "acting out" phase of his illness. 
But again HOW did the kid managed to get into those closures without his parents freaking out or even wondering where he was? What he did was bad but it doesn't warrant feeding him to the crocs, I said that the parents (and zoo) were lucky the kid didn't manage to find his way into the enclosure or else he'd been dinner. He had access for sure, feeding the Goanna <sic> lizard to the croc, what if that wasn't enough for him?


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## bluekey88 (Oct 3, 2008)

As someone whose job it has been for 14 years to work with children with mental and beahvioral disabilities, I'm not so quick to write this kid off given the dearth of information present.

Yes, there's something wrong...I'm not willign without more data to say wether that rises to the level of sociopathy or psychopathy.  YES, where wer teh paretns?  What is the family situation?  I'd be willing to bet that some intervention needs to happen in that domain.

Bottom line, the kid coulsd definitely use some help.  It is quite possible that effective intervention now will work. I've seen kids that were referred to as "monsters" and "unmanageable" make remarkable turnarounds.  I've seen others that never did or could due to the level of dmage and trauma they've expereinced.  

In the end, I'm not willing to write off anybody at such an early age, if ever.  It's always worth trying...it's always worth the time, effort, and money to do so.

Peace,
Erik


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## elder999 (Oct 3, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> .
> 
> What I specifically object to is commentary suggesting his life should have just been ended. This isn't an adult making asinine, monstrous decisions. He is a child likely without any choice of what's happening in his head.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, the best solution really is my mom's-_study the little monster._

And I might be one who'd argue it's not exactly a "mental" illness......





			
				MA-Caver said:
			
		

> Question is HOW did he become a psychopath? They aren't born... they're made.


 
Actually, 'Caver-they're _both_.People suffer the same things that "make" psycopaths in childhood, and develop other disorders, or are functional. Some develop dissociative identity disorder (once called "multiple personality") Some act out sexually. Some, for one reason or another, appear to have somewhat "normal" problems.

Some become monsters.

All reasons not to, as others have said, write the kid off, though it's a somewhat understandable reaction-even from professionals.

Oh, yeah, and it* is*  "goanna"


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Question is HOW did he become a psychopath? They aren't born... they're made. SOMETHING happened to the kid that got him where he is. Blank expression on his face is likely a shut down of what's hurting inside and the "aggression" towards the animals is the manifestation of the hurt, an "acting out" phase of his illness.



Well now ... I dunno about that. If he is chemically imbalanced it could be a from-birth situation.  There have been case studies where the timelines for some homicidal psychopaths indicate extreme behavior *very* early, some as early as toddlerhood which arguably points to a brain disorder rather than nonbiological mental illness.  Nevertheless, children like this MUST BE TREATED.

The biggest problem, as evidenced by this thread, is the even-in-our-times residual stigma associated with psychiatric and psychological problems.  

What will probably happen is this boy will have a finger shaken in his face, his parents will be sued by the zoo owner, there will be minimal intervention for him if any and his condition will deteriorate until he is 10 years old and actually does some serious damage to a family member, classmate or himself. I don't know the Aussie "system" at all, really, so I can't speak to how things typically "go" there.  In the states, it would be at that time that CPS gets involved and the child tossed about from home to home until he lands in juvie or the state authority and when he finally kills he will be killed.

Question is, could he be helped if medically treated early?  There are too few cases where children like this are caught and treated early so there is just not enough data to give a definitive answer.  That can't change, however, if everytime we think we see a monster we grab a torch and pitchfork rather than grab the child and get him to a hospital.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 3, 2008)

First I am not a psychologist but this is at least a base to operate from while we are throwing the term Psychopath around

And if my memory serves me correctly you will not find the term psychopath in the DSM-IV. The closet you will get is Antisocial Personality Disorder. 

The following is from here



> Childhood precursors
> Psychopathy is not normally diagnosed in children or adolescents, and some jurisdictions explicitly forbid diagnosing psychopathy and similar personality disorders in minors. Psychopathic tendencies can sometimes be recognized in childhood or early adolescence and, if recognised, are diagnosed as conduct disorder. It must be stressed that not all children diagnosed with conduct disorder grow up to be psychopaths, or even disordered at all, but these childhood signs are found in significantly higher proportions in psychopaths than in the general population. Conduct disorder, as well as a related disorder, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, can sometimes develop into adult psychopathy. However, conduct disorder "fails to capture the emotional, cognitive and interpersonality traits - egocentricity, lack of remorse, empathy or guilt - that are so important in the diagnosis of psychopathy."[68]
> Children showing strong psychopathic precursors often appear immune to punishment; nothing seems to modify their undesirable behavior. Consequently parents usually give up, and the behavior worsens.[69]
> The following childhood indicators are to be seen not as to the type of behavior, but as to its relentless and unvarying occurrence. Not all must be present concurrently, but at least a number of them need to be present over a period of years[citation needed]:
> ...


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## bluekey88 (Oct 3, 2008)

Exactly my point.  Rather than focus on "what's wrong wiht this child" we should be focusing on "how what is wrong can be emeliorated."

Peace,
Erik


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## Jade Tigress (Oct 4, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> ... if I ever saw one!
> 
> [/b]
> 
> Entire article here -> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432085,00.html




I was soooo going to post this with the exact same title, just didn't have time yesterday. 

Yes, that is exactly what I thought. A future serial killer. This kid is 7-years-old! He _beat_ the reptiles before feeding them to the crocs! It just astounds me how anyone could do such things, much less a child. They had better get this kid some help or down the road it will be more than animals.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 4, 2008)

Back in my security days I dealt with a few that I was pretty sure were going to end up killing a few people when they grew up but they were 15 or older. I dealt with a few children I knew had serious problems as well but I was far less certain they would end up killing anyone. This boy is certainly into some disturbing behavior but he will hopefully now get the help he needs. This however is no guarantee that he will not kill someone when he grows up either. But not a serial killers were abnormal or exhibited disturbing behavior as a child.


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## donna (Oct 4, 2008)

There is a little more to this story than what has been written in the media.
This occurred in Alice Springs which is in the deep outback of Australia. My sister lives there. The Reptile Park shares a boundary with crown land where a lot of indiginous people "hang out" drinking and petrol sniffing ,and a lot of antisocial behavior results. The children of these people are often brain damaged from birth with foetal alchohol syndrome, and if they arent affected by that ,they quite often suffer brain damage from petrol sniffing which is rampant in these areas.(Aerosol paint is also sniffed)
This is not the first time animals in this park have been harmed, it is an ongoing problem which Authorities seem to be unable to resolve.
Since the"Stolen Generation" saga, authorities are very reluctant to take children like this into care for fear of being accused of removing Aboriginal children from their parents. It is a very complex problem and sadly the children are not benefitting from lack of care from their parents or the government agencies involved.


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