# Weapons training



## Zero (Aug 9, 2007)

Aside from your 'hand to hand' training and fighting do many of you train regularly at your clubs (or I guess covertly at home) with particular weapons, and if so which ones do you specialise/focus on?

As stated before, my core MA is goju-ryu and I train with the nunchuku primarily, in fact this is where most of my time and focus goes regarding weapons.  I also train with the katana but nowhere near as much as I would like to. I guess a reason for my preference is that with the nunchuk it is a weapon that can easily be concelaed and carried if required on one's person or vehicle - not that I endorse this or actually practice it, but at least there is a level of reality over a live blade katana outside your own home or dojo. (I am ignoring handguns etc and focusing on traditional karate/ma weaponry).

I also rate the nunchuks due to their versatility, fluidity and speed and the dynamics in their attack options.  Interestingly though, despite much reading and material to the contrary on their initial use and ability to combat a samurai sword, when ever I have sparred in training with a bo I have defeated the nunchuku user and likewise when I have the nunchuku and try to beat the bo (both defensively and offensively) I invariably fail to the blade - any comments/experience on this?  IS there any material/stats on the actual success of combating or at least defending against a katana with nunchuku (even a pair)?  I have read that the original horse-hair cord between the batons was meant to be one of the only material the live blade could not navigate or cut and you could therefore snag/intwine the sword leading to disarming.  But even when I have managed to evade and carry off a head strike with the nunchuku etc I would in be also cut down. What's up with this??


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## Andrew Green (Aug 9, 2007)

Well, nunchuku are a great weapon for putting on a show, and fun to use.  But in terms of practicallity, they are pretty low on the scale.  

I also think that story about a live blade not cutting the cord is nonsense.  Basically if you stand in front of someone with a sword and you have nunchaku, you might give them a nasty bruise in exchange for dieing in a best case scenario.

Nunchaku work against unarmed people, and even people using short weapons.  A knife you got a chance against, a staff or sword you don't.


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## Blindside (Aug 9, 2007)

You'll note that not one flail used in anything resembling an organized army looks anything like a nunchaku.  Form follows function, if they were really effective, someone would have duplicated/co-evolved it for use.  I suspect that the nunchaku and many of the other weapons were only for last ditch use.  

Regarding the bo, the staff has long and well-regarded histories in virtually every culture, its hard to argue with the usefullness of a big stick.


Lamont


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## nathan3 (Aug 9, 2007)

It seems to me (from my fairly limited experience) that many chain/flexible weapons rely more on speed and surprise.  If you can close the distance and hit a swordsman before he can draw his sword, you (might) win.  That's one of the things I like so much about the kusari fundo.  It's easy to hide and strike without giving too much warning.  But once the swordsman sees me as a threat and draws the sword, my skill level with the flexible weapon had better be _a whole lot_ better than the swordsman's skill with his sword.

Just my 2¢,
Nathan


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## stickarts (Aug 9, 2007)

We teach a weapons curriculum including Bo, sai, tonfa, nunchacku, broadsword, sticks, dagger, katana, and kama. The sticks and bo are my favorite. I also dabble a bit with the chain and rings.
Some weapons are more practical than others but I enjoy the entire program since it is versatile, challenging, and interesting.


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## jks9199 (Aug 9, 2007)

Blindside said:


> You'll note that not one flail used in anything resembling an organized army looks anything like a nunchaku. Form follows function, if they were really effective, someone would have duplicated/co-evolved it for use. I suspect that the nunchaku and many of the other weapons were only for last ditch use.
> 
> Regarding the bo, the staff has long and well-regarded histories in virtually every culture, its hard to argue with the usefullness of a big stick.
> 
> ...


 
Personally...

I think several of them were developed to mess with with Western minds...  That, or at least the explanations of what they originated as were.

Staffs of whatever length and particular modification (spear, knobs on the end, etc) -- I'll believe those as real weapons.

Tonfa?  Maybe.  They have a fair amount of practical application, as seen in the PR-24 baton.  And the handle origin is actually kind of believable, too!

Sai?  Yeah, I can believe a short dagger with long ends.  I doubt they were really used for planting, though...

Nunchaku?  I'm the most skeptical of them.  I've not been impressed with the application of any form I've seen; I know quite a few people who have knocked themselves out trying to hit something solid...  Bluntly, they just seem awful high on the fantasy scale.  (As an aside... carrying them accessible, but concealed from common observation is a crime in many states.)

I'm just curious... We have plenty of documentation that people have used their bodies to fight.  And sticks.  Anybody aware of any historical sources depicting fighting with some of these other weapons?


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## chinto (Aug 10, 2007)

Zero said:


> Aside from your 'hand to hand' training and fighting do many of you train regularly at your clubs (or I guess covertly at home) with particular weapons, and if so which ones do you specialise/focus on?
> 
> As stated before, my core MA is goju-ryu and I train with the nunchuku primarily, in fact this is where most of my time and focus goes regarding weapons. I also train with the katana but nowhere near as much as I would like to. I guess a reason for my preference is that with the nunchuk it is a weapon that can easily be concelaed and carried if required on one's person or vehicle - not that I endorse this or actually practice it, but at least there is a level of reality over a live blade katana outside your own home or dojo. (I am ignoring handguns etc and focusing on traditional karate/ma weaponry).
> 
> I also rate the nunchuks due to their versatility, fluidity and speed and the dynamics in their attack options. Interestingly though, despite much reading and material to the contrary on their initial use and ability to combat a samurai sword, when ever I have sparred in training with a bo I have defeated the nunchuku user and likewise when I have the nunchuku and try to beat the bo (both defensively and offensively) I invariably fail to the blade - any comments/experience on this? IS there any material/stats on the actual success of combating or at least defending against a katana with nunchuku (even a pair)? I have read that the original horse-hair cord between the batons was meant to be one of the only material the live blade could not navigate or cut and you could therefore snag/intwine the sword leading to disarming. But even when I have managed to evade and carry off a head strike with the nunchuku etc I would in be also cut down. What's up with this??


 

nunchuku is in my opinion the least efficent and efective weapon of kobujitsu.  It is better then nothing, but not a lot. flail weapons generaly have not been well receved or used a lot when other weapons were available in asia or europe or any where else.
I train whith mainly the bo and kama.  the sai are not my favorite but I have a little training with them and tunfa. eku is cool and I like it as well. but nunchuku not a very good weapon now or back 300 years ago.  staff or kama would be my first choices eku after that and then sai or tunfa after that. one of the last weapons I would turn to for real defence agenst an armed man would be nunchuku.  just not a great choice and I think very over rated in effectivness.


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## twendkata71 (Aug 10, 2007)

The nunchaku is good for strengthening the wrist and good for eye/hand coordination training. Not so much an effective weapon for long distance attacks.  Its effectiveness against the sword would depend on the expertise of the person using the sword. I am not so sure that the sai was used as a farming tool, perhaps to dig up roots or as an airator if it was used. As a weapon the sai is best used against the bo. Originally carrying three sai, one to throw at an opponent, or to pin the opponent before blocking or finishing off the attacker. The actual origin of the sai is lost to time. Some sai it comes from Okinawa, some say from China. I would say that the nunti bo(bo with sai on the end) would be a more effective weapon in ancient times as would the eku(oar).


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## Zero (Aug 10, 2007)

I've been on the nunchuks for years now so am not concerned over hitting myself and can go at speed without.  I am confident going against unarmed or small blade but anything more no way.  I think I'd chuck them at a sword weilding opponent and leg it!  They are a lot of fun and impressive when you get up your speed and also if you can work one in each hand but granted maybe that's more of a 'flashy' appeal - for a pure weapon I can't go past the katana.  Wish I'd spent time on the bo!!


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## harlan (Aug 12, 2007)

Goju and Matayoshi kobudo. Kobudo: bo, sai, tonfa, nunchaku, quwa, eku, chizikun bo, sansetsu kon.



Zero said:


> Aside from your 'hand to hand' training and fighting do many of you train regularly at your clubs (or I guess covertly at home) with particular weapons, and if so which ones do you specialise/focus on?


 
Favorite is chisi. Nice little kata that Kimo Wall teaches and bridges over to Goju.


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## Jin Gang (Aug 12, 2007)

Zero said:


> Aside from your 'hand to hand' training and fighting do many of you train regularly at your clubs (or I guess covertly at home) with particular weapons, and if so which ones do you specialise/focus on?
> 
> Interestingly though, despite much reading and material to the contrary on their initial use and ability to combat a samurai sword, when ever I have sparred in training with a bo I have defeated the nunchuku user and likewise when I have the nunchuku and try to beat the bo (both defensively and offensively) I invariably fail to the blade - any comments/experience on this? IS there any material/stats on the actual success of combating or at least defending against a katana with nunchuku (even a pair)? I have read that the original horse-hair cord between the batons was meant to be one of the only material the live blade could not navigate or cut and you could therefore snag/intwine the sword leading to disarming. But even when I have managed to evade and carry off a head strike with the nunchuku etc I would in be also cut down. What's up with this??


 

I don't think the nunchaku were ever meant to be used against a katana, in a dueling type scenario.  The history of Okinawan kobudo weapons that most people get from their karate schools (and as a result float around the internet), are not very accurate, in general.  
I think of the nunchaku as a "sneaky" weapon.  As you said, it can be concealed fairly easily and carried around.  It would give you an advantage against an unarmed attacker, or even multiple unarmed opponents, or against an armed person before they manage to draw their weapon.  Once someone draws a weapon and has time to prepare for your attacks, it's much harder to deal with, as you have experienced.  To beat a swordsman, knock him out before he draws his sword .  For a staff, you need to get in close and grab the weapon to take away its advantage.  Trap the staff after blocking or dodging an overextended attack or take advantage of a slow opponent, and use your feet and nunchaku to win.  The same would work for shorter sticks as well, and for spears to a limited extent (you need to be carefull not to let that point get you, or let them yank it through your hand).  Wrapping up someone's weapon with the nunchaku seems like a good idea, except that you need to use both hands to do it, so if you're going to use that strategy you better be really good with your feet.  A better strategy is to hold both ends of the nunchaku together in one hand, just to use it as a blocking implement until you can get control of the staff.  Flailing it around isn't very effective defense against the swing or thrust of a staff.  If an opponent makes a low strike or sweep and is too slow, use that to trap the staff with your legs or feet, and try to "stomp" the weapon down to possibly break it or disarm your opponent.  The staff's power is in its length, and the momentum that builds up from swinging or thrusting it.  It can't do a lot of damage once it's been brought to a halt.

Against a sword...just keep moving.  It's not much different than being unarmed against a sword.  You have to stay away, if the swordsman makes a mistake or is too slow, flail at his hands and wrist to get him to maybe drop the sword, but never stop moving.  In a heavily padded sparring match, this might not work so well, or you might not do it just because it would hurt your partner...but that's how I'd deal with it.  Sparring with armor and padded weapons and rules and such sometimes causes one to overlook the techniques that are really effective.  

I think one nunchaku is probably more useful than a pair, especially against a staff or other non-bladed weapon.  This is because you need your other hand for grappling.  Against a sword, two might be useful, just to have two opportunities to get the sword hand, but the strategy is the same.  Stay away and be nimble.  You've got to be exceptionally skilled compared to your opponent, to be successfull this way.  

It's definately not the weapon anyone would take into battle.  It's something a commoner might carry around under their coat "for protection", sort of like a can of mace in your pocket.  If someone threatens you, you can whip it out and club them, and then run away.  An unarmed bully or mugger might think twice after you've smacked him in the noggin or the shins, and it could be useful in a bar fight


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## chinto (Aug 19, 2007)

I think that the nunchuku were inteded as a last ditch weapon when nothing better was available. I would agree that you would try to use it as a suprise weapon and hide it till the last split second. then after say 4 or maybe 5 strikes with it you would either discard the weapon becouse you were in to close or perhaps run, or be dead.  but if you had any weapon you had a clue how to use, I am sure you would use it when attacked by an armed man.


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## NDNgirl4ever (Aug 19, 2007)

I study Kobayashi Shorin Ryu, and I train primarily with the Bo staff. I'm currently learning the first third of the Bo kata My Tsu Sho. I also have a little bit of experience with the nunchucks and the sword, but those are mainly used by the higher belt levels belt levels(I'm currently a yellow belt). In our school we also have sais and kamas, although I haven't used those yet.


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## chinto (Aug 20, 2007)

cool, like I said before, for myself I prefer the bo and kama fallowed by eku, tekko and then sai and tunfa and some other weapons...


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