# TRIGONDO - new martial art against multiple attackers. NEW NEW



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

Dear Martial Art Friends,

i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.

It is a system that can be performed on a very small place.

A couple of years ago i have deposit the system on a legal copyright for founder and also designed a special budo weapon
for it.

It's worth it. Believe me.

Video 1 :  




You can download a complete trigondo manual in PDF in the description of this video.

Video 2 : 




Greetings
Sensei_Trigondo


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## punisher73 (Jan 22, 2022)

Ummmm....Not sure if this is real or a satire like "Enter the Dojo" and "Ameri Do Te".

But....what is your overall strategy in your first form, opening the gate?  What tactics are you using to support that strategy?  What techniques are you using to implement this?  You state that you can only "fight one at a time" with multiple attackers.  How do you accomplish this?


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> Ummmm....Not sure if this is real or a satire like "Enter the Dojo" and "Ameri Do Te".
> 
> But....what is your overall strategy in your first form, opening the gate?  What tactics are you using to support that strategy?  What techniques are you using to implement this?  You state that you can only "fight one at a time" with multiple attackers.  How do you accomplish this?


dear friend,
my strategy is about the statement "NOT to fight one at a time at once, and be always in motion"
the strategy is founding on the new designed martial art trigondo and described in german and english in the PDF Manual you can download in the description of the first video.
When you read it you can imagine.
Thank you for your reply.

Sensei_Trigondo


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## jks9199 (Jan 22, 2022)

What's your background? What qualifies you to say your system will work? How have you tested it?


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

hello,
yes i do it in streetfight only. have tested it.
I have done for many years, boxing,hapkido,teakwondo etc.
but see it as an option to any style IF there are many attackers.
just read the manual PDF, and you understand. do the exercises and you understand.


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## punisher73 (Jan 22, 2022)

Based on the "triangle exercise" shown in the pdf and the "opening the gate form", I find that your system lacks any of the strategies/concepts I asked about.

For example, "NOT to fight one at a time at once, and be always in motion".  How do you actually accomplish this?  In the form, you are just changing directions to address one person at a time like in the movies where only one person comes at you at a time.  I see no movement (based on what has been shown) that allows you to stack attackers, or allows you to throw an attacker into another, I see no containment movement(s) to use an attacker as a temporary shield, etc.

What is your strategy to "always be in motion"?  What kind of motion? Moving so the attacker has to readjust? Moving to create distance?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello,
> yes i do it in streetfight only. have tested it.
> *I have done for many years, boxing,hapkido,teakwondo etc.*
> but see it as an option to any style IF there are many attackers.
> just read the manual PDF, and you understand. do the exercises and you understand.



Please define "many years" how many years is that in each style?

Bitte definieren Sie "viele Jahre"
Wie viele Jahre sind das in jedem Stil?


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

hello,
have you trained the exercises in the manual for some hours ?
Only by practicing youcan realize, not by "just thinking about"
i adress noone, instead i walk my system, no matter if a opponent there is.
if not the better, to move away as soon as possible from the situation.
but everyone who IS on my way, get one on the mussle.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 22, 2022)

Why are you avoiding answering direct questions with direct answers? And why are you answering questions with questions?

it does not give others confidence in your legitimacy when you do that


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Please define "many years" how many years is that in each style?
> 
> Bitte definieren Sie "viele Jahre"
> Wie viele Jahre sind das in jedem Stil?


6 years hapkido
3 years teakwondo
2 years traditional boxing
and more seminars of kungfu.
actually i stay official at karate-do
my trigondo is only an "option style" but can be used also alone for one opponent.
it is in permanent development.

oh i forget 1 year kickboxing. sorry


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## Steve (Jan 22, 2022)

Hey I checked out the video, but you’ve got to be kidding if you think I’m going to download a pdf from a random dude on the internet.  Especially as you’re pushing it to hard.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

please do not always look on "mirrors" in what i have to offer here. 
Just take some stuff that fits your personal style and upgrade the "positive" aspect of it.
by performing this style you will feel after a while that there is something on it indeed different.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 22, 2022)

I think Master Ken does it better.


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## hoshin1600 (Jan 22, 2022)

Nothing to see here move along people.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> I think Master Ken does it better.


noone is perfect. no system is perfect.
there is always a better one. we are sport friends.
as i do, i see what someone has to offer and with respect, see if something fits me and implement it
in my own style. everyone is happy and wins.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> noone is perfect. no system is perfect.
> there is always a better one. we are sport friends.
> as i do, i see what someone has to offer and with respect, see if something fits me and implement it
> in my own style. everyone is happy and wins.


You don't have a clue who Master Ken is, do you?


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

i think he is a good master, 
but what has that to do with to pick up some stuff of my style i have to offer.
noone changes his style, only "enrich". if possible


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

I've got red flags popping up all over the place.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Hey I checked out the video, but you’ve got to be kidding if you think I’m going to download a pdf from a random dude on the internet.  Especially as you’re pushing it to hard.


What?  You don't like .pdf surprises.  You never know what you're gonna get.




My favorite quote from that move because box chocolates are nasty except for that 1 piece that's hidden in there.  So I know exactly what I'm getting.  Nasty chocolate lol


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i think he is a good master,
> but what has that to do with to pick up some stuff of my style i have to offer.
> noone changes his style, only "enrich". if possible


So that's a no. You haven't a clue.
I watched your videos, and frankly I wish I could have that 30 minutes back.
What ranks do you hold in what MA systems?


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> So that's a no. You haven't a clue.
> I watched your videos, and frankly I wish I could have that 30 minutes back.
> What ranks do you hold in what MA systems?


I did 30 secs.  of skipping.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I did 30 secs.  of skipping.


i am only a martial sports friend. this is what i have. you see it.
because i am new i bring what i have first.
next time take a journey on the forum for martial art interesting posts.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


I only got a short way into the first video. The movements look like arm-waving to me, without any real intent. And the footwork had a lot of "wiggle-step" in it, which also shows no real intent in the movement, except to get really wide.

As a movement exercise, this looks kind of interesting if performed with good control. But I don't see anything of fighting principles in it.

I can't say from what I've watched what your skill level is. If you're actually good, you need to work on that form so it shows. If that form was a fair representation of your skill...


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I only got a short way into the first video. The movements look like arm-waving to me, without any real intent. And the footwork had a lot of "wiggle-step" in it, which also shows no real intent in the movement, except to get really wide.
> 
> As a movement exercise, this looks kind of interesting if performed with good control. But I don't see anything of fighting principles in it.
> 
> I can't say from what I've watched what your skill level is. If you're actually good, you need to work on that form so it shows. If that form was a fair representation of your skill...


dear friend, yes armwaving without an intend in TRUE.
But only if you do Trigondo in QIGONG slow motion style not for self defence.
what i have described in the pdf manual.
no matter how old you are. you can still practice it further such like QiGong.
for self defence actions are made instead of (armwaves-shiftblocks)
you are right that better work should be made. perhaps this year after corona.
when i made the videos my strength was a little bit down.
creating and thinking is consuming a lot of energy. making all that stuff.
i am new here. just bring this concept for a try.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i am only a martial sports friend. this is what i have. you see it.
> because i am new i bring what i have first.
> next time take a journey on the forum for martial art interesting posts.


I'm not saying you shouldn't take your journey into martial arts.  If this is your goal then I wish the best of luck with you.  For me, it only takes about 30 seconds to have an opinion about a martial arts.  The reason it only takes me 30 seconds is because I look for basic and foundational pieces that are in all martial arts.  I either see it or I don't.

My goal in Martial Arts is to be a good representation of Jow Ga kung fu. Because of that, my goal drives my interest.  Creating a new martial arts system isn't easy.  I wish you luck with your new martial arts.  You will have a long difficult road ahead of you, because it's never easy.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

I forgot to say WELCOME TO MARTIAIL


Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


I forgot to say.  WELCOME TO MARTIALTALK.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

Check out the Trigondo PDF Manual :   i have uploaded it as a file here in this post in the forum.
                                                                           as an attachement. secure.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Check out the Trigondo PDF Manual :


No offense.  But I'm not downloading a pdf.  From an Internet safety perspective.  I'm just not doing it.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Check out the Trigondo PDF Manual :   i have uploaded it as a file here in this post.


Several people have already told you that your PDF isn't going to be downloaded. Because shockingly enough, martial artists think about security. And downloading files from some random unknown character isn't smart.
That, and this place is loaded with people who have decades and decades of experience. And for many, watching a bit of your videos is likely to be enough to convince them that your skills may not be all that stellar.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Greetings
> Sensei_Trigondo


I believe "Sensei" is translated into "teacher". Is it proper to call yourself "teacher Trigondo"?

That's an interested weapon that you have created. I just wonder if you can hold it in your hands stable enough to deal with any heavy cold weapon attack.

When I saw your thread title, I expect your clip may look like the following clip. It can be an interest discussion subject.

You talk about "against multiple attacks". In your video, you don't even have 1 opponent. Without a life opponent, how do you know that your timing, opportunity, and angle are correct?


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 22, 2022)

hello grandmaster,  that question is good.

you can see that i do "shadow boxing".
Therefore my way in martial art leads me to karate. the way of the empty hand.
To do Katas such like "heian nidan"   "heian shodan" and so on as a form of shadowboxing is
a fundamental part of karate. Not even karate , think about the "teakwondo hyongs".
Someone cannot say that theese styles are not effective because of shadowboxing.
In all katas the opponents are "imagined".
Karate fits the best for Trigondo concept.
However.
You are right to fight opponents. In Karate it is the kumite.
In Trigondo it is one or more opponents.
Yes, i have not already made my homework in the video representation of real fighting opponents
because i have a small connection to martial art friends local here.
Now i make more contacts on forums here too.
Only to find a fighter that wants to make a single video here is heavier than you think.
I made advertisements in a newspaper. Nothing.
Besides Corona nonsense.
I will deliver such videos. i Swear.
In the meantime Trigondo is a "Kata Style Demonstration" system.
I will watch your shown video.
Thank you

At the time you "see" less examples but if you to the training from PDF manual for some days
you realise on your own automaticly why i have created this style.

I have seen the video.
This man stays at one position in the middle and "by surprise" is not get caught by two or three at the same time. It is a spoken ritual situation.
Real multiman fighting is a "Chaos Situation". 
So do the Trigon walk and get out as soon as possible.
No fight is better than fight.
There is no precision in multimanfight, there is unexpected chaos.
You can avoid this unexpected chaos by do your inner movements and get out.
Everyone who in on your way get something on the mussle. IF there is any. And run away.


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## jks9199 (Jan 22, 2022)

You're telling us you've got something new and better/different than what's out there -- but can't even get 2 friends to help show it.  That's a big, big claim -- and you've provided little support for it.  Your videos -- I admit, I only watched part of each of them -- don't show anything that i haven't seen done better elsewhere. 

I give you credit that you're not trying to sell it... but still... big claims need big support.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 22, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello grandmaster,


The Sr. Grandmaster title was given by the forum for a certain number of posts that I have posted. It has nothing to do with personal title.

When I was young, in one of my English class, I introduced myself as, "Mr. Wang". Everybody laughed at me. I then realized that I should not give myself any title.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 23, 2022)

you can think whatever you want.
could be, that a fighter is performing the trigondo manual and say "oh really, that is the style i have
used for years to fill the gap for multiple attackers with, i take it in my own, i LIKE that".
same with the weapon
it depends on personal preferences.
EVERYTHING must be created in mind, whatever it is, to become later in practice.
For the multimanfight a NEW approach must be used.
Not like kumite for one, looking the gaps and do an action.
There is no time to look at an gap of the opponent because in the same time you get cought from behind.
What you see from me at the time are "constructions , blue prints"
The practice videos will come and then you will be surprised.
However.
I would be glad if someone has done the style a little and say "ok , i like it, its a personal enrichment for me and i understand what this guy means."


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 23, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i think he is a good master,
> but what has that to do with to pick up some stuff of my style i have to offer.
> noone changes his style, only "enrich". if possible


How many groin stomps in your system?


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## hoshin1600 (Jan 23, 2022)

As stated many times we have no interest in downloading anything. If you want to continue the conversation, why don't you tell us about your philosophy, tactics or training methodology? There is nothing stopping you from posting an excerpt text from your manual for us to read.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 23, 2022)

hello,
there are good news.
For the first time i have done a posting to search some dojo independent martial art fighters to do
some video representation on    Kampfkunst-Board
It is the greatest forum here in germany,
So the starting point here is 1 and the result will follow this year.
This is the last mail in this conversation and you can expect results.
Without Exceptions.


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 23, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The Sr. Grandmaster title was given by the forum for a certain number of posts that I have posted. It has nothing to do with personal title.
> 
> When I was young, in one of my English class, I introduced myself as, "Mr. Wang". Everybody laughed at me. I then realized that I should not give myself any title.


yeah, everyone can laugh or critizse something when he has not personal experienced it, but when he has one on the mussle and don't know why, he is not laughing anymore.
i never critize the work of another person and show respect. respect is the mother of development.


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## seasoned (Jan 23, 2022)

elder999 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are a sleeping tiger....


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 23, 2022)

i give you an example how i sleep.

Sensei_Trigondo Short Representation Video on Youtube


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## Buka (Jan 23, 2022)

As someone who taught Federal  law enforcement officers to fight against multiple attackers, I have a suggestion for any future videos...

a. Get some multiple attackers.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 23, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i give you an example how i sleep.
> 
> Sensei_Trigondo Short Representation Video on Youtube


🤣🤣


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 23, 2022)

seasoned said:


> You are a sleeping tiger....


🤣


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## Blindside (Jan 23, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...



After watching the first 30 seconds of the first video I am assuming this has never been tested against one even vaguely resisting opponent much less multiple.  Please prove me wrong and point me to a video that has you manipulating more than air.


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## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 24, 2022)

i do respect here for anyone with long experience in martial art.
again.
i start NOW - NEW at point 1 with this art.  take an eye on it in the future.
FOR THE FIRST TIME -  i do advertisements to get "Dojo Independent Fighters" here.
This year 2022 you will see results.
be patient and only realise that "there is something"

Kindly Regards
S.T.


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## Hanzou (Jan 24, 2022)




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## wab25 (Jan 24, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i do respect here for anyone with long experience in martial art.
> again.
> i start NOW - NEW at point 1 with this art.  take an eye on it in the future.
> FOR THE FIRST TIME -  i do advertisements to get "Dojo Independent Fighters" here.
> ...


So, you created a new martial art that specializes in handling multiple attackers... But you do not have any attackers in the videos that you share, of your new art. This would be like claiming to have invented the first flying car.... and showing videos of the glove box being opened and closed, and the seats being adjusted, so that the driver can reach the pedals.... If you don't show the car flying... people will not believe it... in this case you do not even show the car driving down the road. It should not be surprising that people are not taking your new art seriously.

This should be easy to fix... get some more people in the video. I would suggest that instead of paying for the advertisement... you go down to the park, or gym and offer people that money to play a roll in your video. You could go to a bar and offer to by drinks for anyone willing to help out...

Also understand, that there are red flags when someone claims to have a new martial arts system, but they do not have any partners to demonstrate the art with... how do you know your new art will work, without trying it on another person? Assuming that you did try this stuff with other people... why are they not willing to demo this new art with you?

When you do get some video, with multiple attackers.... I would love to see it... I may learn something from it.


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## bushido (Jan 24, 2022)

Hmmm... I was going to pass this by... Then I wrote a long post, Then I deleted it. Then I was going to say a lot more... instead, I will rein in my comments, lol.
I can't contribute anything nice or constructive to this topic, so I am going to refrain...


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## bushido (Jan 24, 2022)

One constructive thing I would point out... Sensei is a Japanese term, while for all intents and purposes, you are basing your style on a Chinese art.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 24, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> you can see that i do "shadow boxing".


In your video, you step back your leg and then turn. Since you are dealing with multiple opponents,

Should you 

- worry about that your opponent behind you may attack your extended back leg?
- turn your head first before you turn your body?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 24, 2022)

bushido said:


> One constructive thing I would point out... Sensei is a Japanese term, while for all intents and purposes, you are basing your style on a Chinese art.


Hold the phone, nothing in that video constitutes a connection to Chinese martial arts that I am aware of.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 24, 2022)

bushido said:


> Hmmm... I was going to pass this by... Then I wrote a long post, Then I deleted it. Then I was going to say a lot more... instead, I will rein in my comments, lol.
> I can't contribute anything nice or constructive to this topic, so I am going to refrain...


Same.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 24, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i do respect here for anyone with long experience in martial art.
> again.
> i start NOW - NEW at point 1 with this art.  take an eye on it in the future.
> FOR THE FIRST TIME -  i do advertisements to get "Dojo Independent Fighters" here.
> ...


Please show your multiple groin restomp techniques.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 24, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Please show your multiple groin restomp techniques.


When I see a multiple attackers video, I expect something like this:


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 24, 2022)

Remind me to never come in this place if I create a new system


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## bushido (Jan 24, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Hold the phone, nothing in that video constitutes a connection to Chinese martial arts that I am aware of.


LOL... A lot more than it does HapKiDo...


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## Oily Dragon (Jan 24, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> yeah, everyone can laugh or critizse something when he has not personal experienced it, but when he has one on the mussle and don't know why, he is not laughing anymore.
> i never critize the work of another person and show respect. respect is the mother of development.


Laughter is the best medicine, and it's critical to Kung fu development.

How would you describe your style in anthropomorphic terms?  I'll give you an example.


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## Martial D (Jan 24, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


Your footwork looks stiff, your hand positions and arm movements seem to leave you open to striking and vulnerable to grappling, and when you stand on one leg it looks as if you are on the verge of falling over. 

It kinda reminds me of a drunk guy that doesn't know karate trying to do karate.

Other than that though it looks great. Where do I sign up?


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 25, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In your video, you step back your leg and then turn. Since you are dealing with multiple opponents,
> 
> Should you
> 
> ...


hello Kung Fu Wang ,
could you ask this question in a new posting about that matter ?
I think this posting is overloaded and can not lead to serious result anymore.
Kindly Regards
S.T.

It is funny that everyone is doing a posting here on this issue. But not so... funny again anymore.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 25, 2022)

Here's the thing. You keep insisting that your stuff is new and amazing.
But you're not showing that. At all. Not even a little.
Watching your videos, frankly, makes me wonder if you have any actual training, skill, or experience of any kind. Your balance is off, your movements are jerky, your movements don't seem to have any actual function, your positions are an open invitation to pound you into next week. 
You go on and on about how we should "just try it" but you haven't given us a single reason to do so. Not one. And to be blunt, what I see in your videos is more than enough to convince me not to waste my time.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 25, 2022)

kung fu wang ?


----------



## Cynik75 (Jan 25, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> ...Watching your videos, frankly, makes me wonder if you have any actual training, skill, or experience of any kind. Your balance is off, your movements are jerky, your movements don't seem to have any actual function, your positions are an open invitation to pound you into next week.
> You go on and on about how we should "just try it" but you haven't given us a single reason to do so. Not one. And to be blunt, what I see in your videos is more than enough to convince me not to waste my time.


Maybe this is the clue of his system? To look like completly untrained and kill the opponent by surprise? Maybe it took him 25 years to master skills till he achieved the level of nooblooking master". 
Maybe...
But probably not.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 25, 2022)

hello again,
i gladly talk about my background , but not in this posting as you can understand.
maybe... to kung fu wang.
but not in a struggling, downgrading conversation. that makes no sense.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 25, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello again,
> i gladly talk about my background , but not in this posting as you can understand.
> maybe... to kung fu wang.
> but not in a struggling, downgrading conversation. that makes no sense.


Feel free to start a new post than. Regarding either this, or regarding the questions wang had regarding your video. No need to wait for someone else to create it.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 25, 2022)

done. this posting can be closed. or what do you think is the development here ?
Kindly Regards
S.T.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 25, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> done. this posting can be closed. or what do you think is the development here ?
> Kindly Regards
> S.T.


We don't typically close threads, in case someone wants to add something to it, unless the thread is going in a direction that breaks policy. Just as an fyi; I know different forums work differently.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 25, 2022)

The link doesn't work for me.  My computer skills aren't THAT bad.  This just takes me to a blank page.

Nvm, the link in the first video still works.  The link in #2 is broke.

Reading the PDF now that I'm fully awake and...I am intrigued.

Trigondo...Way of the Triangle Form?  This...means something.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 25, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> The link doesn't work for me.  My computer skills aren't THAT bad.  This just takes me to a blank page.
> 
> Nvm, the link in the first video still works.  The link in #2 is broke.
> 
> ...



Why do I keep thinking  I have seen something similar from Mitose


----------



## Ji Yuu (Jan 25, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> No offense.  But I'm not downloading a pdf.  From an Internet safety perspective.  I'm just not doing it.


If you have a PDF reader in your browser, you can view it without downloading it. Having said that, I've already viewed it. I agree that you should not do it (but not for security reasons).


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 25, 2022)

Ji Yuu said:


> If you have a PDF reader in your browser, you can view it without downloading it. Having said that, I've already viewed it. I agree that you should not do it (but not for security reasons).


Not everyone views PDF files from their browser as a default


----------



## Steve (Jan 25, 2022)

May I recommend posting some inflammatory political content?  That will certainly get this thread locked PDQ, if that's the goal.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 25, 2022)

"reality is always one step ahead of logic".  Somebody said that once, I can't even figure out who using Google.  Maybe it was me.

I did find this, tho.  Triangles.





__





						More Symmetry And Asymmetry Of The Human Body – Happeh Theory
					





					www.happehtheory.com


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 25, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> You don't have a clue who Master Ken is, do





Oily Dragon said:


> "reality is always one step ahead of logic".  Somebody said that once, I can't even figure out who using Google.  Maybe it was me.
> 
> I did find this, tho.  Triangles.
> 
> ...


Ah yes!!  Happeh ... I like it when I'm Happeh ...


----------



## dvcochran (Jan 25, 2022)

I believe TRIGONDO has tapped out.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 25, 2022)

Steve said:


> May I recommend posting some inflammatory political content?  That will certainly get this thread locked PDQ, if that's the goal.



You mean like Washington State HOARDING all of NYS CREAM CHEESE


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 26, 2022)

dvcochran said:


> I believe TRIGONDO has tapped out.


Oh no!  I was waiting to see the match on YouTube between him & Master Ken


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 26, 2022)

Zinobile said:


> Oh no!  I was waiting to see the match on YouTube between him & Master Ken


He never posted his multiple attacker groin restomps.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 26, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> "reality is always one step ahead of logic".  Somebody said that once, I can't even figure out who using Google.  Maybe it was me.
> 
> I did find this, tho.  Triangles.
> 
> ...


----------



## punisher73 (Jan 26, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> "reality is always one step ahead of logic".  Somebody said that once, I can't even figure out who using Google.  Maybe it was me.
> 
> I did find this, tho.  Triangles.
> 
> ...


I found this quote, similar to yours. Maybe you saw this one and were inspired and then you created your quote. 

"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.” - Frank Herbert


----------



## wab25 (Jan 26, 2022)

So... I just wanted to report back. I downloaded the pdf file, and have spent the last few days walking and moving in the Trigondo way. WOW! I learned so much. My other arts, Danzan Ryu and Shotokan karate are so much more dynamic now. But, really this is quickly becoming my main art now.

Being the first to get on board and learn this from the creator, and with the skills I have obtained through the study of Trigondo, I should be promoted to 8th or 9th degree black belt. Sensei, if you would be so kind as to create a new pdf file, one that promotes me to 8th or 9th degree black belt... then I can hang that on my wall here in my dojo. It will be sure to impress. (I will be printing this out on the high quality printer paper for sure)

I also think a title would be in order here as well. If you only promote me to 8th degree black belt, maybe the title of "Soke" would work. But, if you promote me to 9th, then perhaps the title of "Super Soke" would be more appropriate. 

Now, with rank in 3 different arts, (and a check that clears) there is no way I won't be inducted into a few different martial arts halls of fame...


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 26, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> He never posted his multiple attacker groin restomps.


Perhaps that's a secret to be kept for "The Match" ?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 26, 2022)

Somebody should give


Zinobile said:


> Perhaps that's a secret to be kept for "The Match" ?


master ken doesn’t need to keep secrets…


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 26, 2022)

wab25 said:


> So... I just wanted to report back. I downloaded the pdf file, and have spent the last few days walking and moving in the Trigondo way. WOW! I learned so much. My other arts, Danzan Ryu and Shotokan karate are so much more dynamic now. But, really this is quickly becoming my main art now.
> 
> Being the first to get on board and learn this from the creator, and with the skills I have obtained through the study of Trigondo, I should be promoted to 8th or 9th degree black belt. Sensei, if you would be so kind as to create a new pdf file, one that promotes me to 8th or 9th degree black belt... then I can hang that on my wall here in my dojo. It will be sure to impress. (I will be printing this out on the high quality printer paper for sure)
> 
> ...


This intro almost sounded real. You scared me for a second.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 26, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> I found this quote, similar to yours. Maybe you saw this one and were inspired and then you created your quote.
> 
> "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.” - Frank Herbert


Thanks.

Google failed me, that day.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 26, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> I found this quote, similar to yours. Maybe you saw this one and were inspired and then you created your quote.
> 
> "Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.” - Frank Herbert


I've always preferred this version:


> “There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." ―Douglas Adams,' The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. '


----------



## AIKIKENJITSU (Jan 26, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


I'll stick to American Kenpo. Thanks.
Sifu
Puyallup, WA


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

hello, 
i will deliver results in new video form with a team.
i the meantime look my motivation and intention is from an example movie of Bolo Yeung.
here is the link :  tiger claw 2
look at the multiman action at minute   44:48 , look at the (walk) he make.


----------



## punisher73 (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello,
> i will deliver results in new video form with a team.
> i the meantime look my motivation and intention is from an example movie of Bolo Yeung.
> here is the link :  tiger claw 2
> look at the multiman action at minute   44:48 , look at the (walk) he make.



The problem with the video clips, is that it is a "hollywood" multiple attacker scenario.  By that I mean, the attackers all stand around and wait their turn to attack the good guy.  It's not realistic at all.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> The problem with the video clips, is that it is a "hollywood" multiple attacker scenario.  By that I mean, the attackers all stand around and wait their turn to attack the good guy.  It's not realistic at all.


could be. it's the viewers decision how realistic a fight is if it is a movie scene.
this.... multiman fight video from a dojo in real fight seems to be unrealistic because here
really... the man is waiting for other in the middle and one by one came in the middle.
it's a spoken conversation.
from my opinion this movie scene from Bolo Yeung is really realistic clone from a real streetfight that could happen.
The problem is that there are very little good example videos seen on youtube ans other videoportals.
Even Dojos and Club have less of this up.

mentioned video from a friend here to multiple attackers


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 27, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Somebody should give
> 
> master ken doesn’t need to keep secrets…


It's Sensei's secret!


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Jan 27, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> I've always preferred this version:





> “There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." ―Douglas Adams,' The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. '


There is another theory that this has already happened.


----------



## wab25 (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> could be. it's the viewers decision how realistic a fight is if it is a movie scene.
> this.... multiman fight video from a dojo in real fight seems to be unrealistic because here
> really... the man is waiting for other in the middle and one by one came in the middle.
> it's a spoken conversation.
> ...


See this video, jump ahead to 4:40, to see a more realistic look at what multiple attackers would look like:


----------



## Cynik75 (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> here is the link :  tiger claw 2
> look at the multiman action at minute   44:48 , look at the (walk) he make.


Holy ****.... Am I in other Universe?


Sensei_trigondo said:


> could be. it's the viewers decision how realistic a fight is if it is a movie scene.
> ....
> from my opinion this movie scene from Bolo Yeung is really realistic clone from a real streetfight that could happen.
> ...


AAAAAARrgh..., my brain has just collapsed...
Are you really talking with a guy who believes the movie is real. 


Dear sensei_trigondo. I am sure  in your country still are footbal hooligans. Just dress a scarf of team not liked in your neigborhood and go footbal match of local team. Pretty soon you will know how multiple attackers assault looks like.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

wab25 said:


> See this video, jump ahead to 4:40, to see a more realistic look at what multiple attackers would look like:


that is true , that military ones are fighting under that conditions.  really interesting

ok then, i have opened a new posting in "general martial arts talk" to mention videos that
are suited for "martial art" only and show different strategys WITHOUT the discussion of any style,
just a neutral look and opinion.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

Cynik75 said:


> Holy ****.... Am I in other Universe?
> 
> AAAAAARrgh..., my brain has just collapsed...
> Are you really talking with a guy who believes the movie is real.
> ...


hi friend , those experiences i can save me because i know what you mean.
Does not enhance the real question about "strategies" some guys probe in the videos you see in
my new post in "general martial arts talk". Please take a look at that what they have tried.
STYLE - NEUTRAL


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2022)

One is a Hong Kong theater movie with Choreographed fights and the other looks like a slower than normal pace Shuaijiao demo film..... not exactly showing anything related to the reality of dealing with multiple attackers.

Let me relate a bit of a story to you about a similar assumption made by someone. I had a good friend whose wife was in the Guangzhou opera, they do a lot of martial arts related shows. She had a colleague from teh opera who was going to move to America and teach Wushu (Chinese Martial Arts). She asked him how he planned on doing that because the martial arts they were trained was for acting not fighting. He did not seem to be dissuaded....he said he did not see the difference. She responded with, well for one thing, we're trained to miss and and fall on cue...does not happen in a real fight....


----------



## Dirty Dog (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello,
> i will deliver results in new video form with a team.
> i the meantime look my motivation and intention is from an example movie of Bolo Yeung.
> here is the link :  tiger claw 2
> look at the multiman action at minute   44:48 , look at the (walk) he make.


Are you so seriously disconnected from the real world that you think a choreographed movie fight has anything whatsoever to do with reality?


Sensei_trigondo said:


> could be. it's the viewers decision how realistic a fight is if it is a movie scene.


Well, no. It's not a matter of opinion. It's choreographed. It's not a fight. It's not pressure testing techniques. It's fantasy.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 27, 2022)

Zinobile said:


> It's Sensei's secret!


Oh! Well then I understand now.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 27, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Oh! Well then I understand now.


I'm starting to.  See, the three circles are connected by a triangle.


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I'm starting to.  See, the three circles are connected by a triangle.
> 
> View attachment 28011


hello , yes one triangle form presents three circles to act apon when you there.
mosttimes you reach a circle together with a viewpoint changing.
example. you are on B2 downcircle looking up, moving to right upper circle while changing
your direction in direction B - down. before you have done the direction changing in the upper circle punch has made to A up.
ready to immediately make a second one DOWN.
( if one follows you you have not seen while moving to upper point which appears often. )
Then you move fast to left point with action and direction changing.  ( or back to startingcircle)
in mind every Point is connected to another Trigon.   left or right or mirrored down.

this "principle" is in reality a damn good thing.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 27, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> The problem with the video clips, is that it is a "hollywood" multiple attacker scenario.  By that I mean, the attackers all stand around and wait their turn to attack the good guy.  It's not realistic at all.



That movie was made in Canada, and it's _awesome_.  The first 45 seconds alone...

Your argument is invalid!


----------



## Sensei_trigondo (Jan 27, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> That movie was made in Canada, and it's _awesome_.  The first 45 seconds alone...
> 
> Your argument is invalid!


relax ,  it is a good video ok. But there are better ones seen in my posting in "general discussion."
we see in the video examples from bagua main principle and other that permanent movement
and really important VIEW CHANGING is necessary in that form.
in bagua he is running CIRCLES to not get caught.
I don't want to speak down any work , only say that this principle is not seen in that video
because it is a "spoken arrangement".  one after one.  other are waiting for their turn.
the fight is good.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello , yes one triangle form presents three circles to act apon when you there.
> mosttimes you reach a circle together with a viewpoint changing.
> example. you are on B2 downcircle looking up, moving to right upper circle while changing
> your direction in direction B - down. before you have done the direction changing in the upper circle punch has made to A up.
> ...


Footwork patterns are common, and in no way do they constitute a martial art. The Charleston dance also has footwork patterns.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Jan 27, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I'm starting to.  See, the three circles are connected by a triangle.
> 
> View attachment 28011


Oh my!


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 27, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> hello , yes one triangle form presents three circles to act apon when you there.
> mosttimes you reach a circle together with a viewpoint changing.
> example. you are on B2 downcircle looking up, moving to right upper circle while changing
> your direction in direction B - down. before you have done the direction changing in the upper circle punch has made to A up.
> ...





Oily Dragon said:


> I'm starting to.  See, the three circles are connected by a triangle.
> 
> View attachment 28011


You know, this could evolve into the modern-day Twister!!


----------



## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I'm starting to.  See, the three circles are connected by a triangle.
> 
> View attachment 28011



Your post made me think of this


----------



## Oily Dragon (Jan 27, 2022)

Xue Sheng said:


> Your post made me think of this


That man's been to space, in both fantasy and in real life.

There isn't a better character study in history.


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 28, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> That man's been to space, in both fantasy and in real life.
> 
> There isn't a better character study in history.


Take your protein pill and put your helmet on ...


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Jan 30, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> i give you an example how i sleep.
> 
> Sensei_Trigondo Short Representation Video on Youtube



Thank you sir, for your latest video.

I'll admit, I stopped watching the first video at what looked like some pretty bad bagwa walking, but I'm glad I took a look at this one.
You really made my morning. 😂


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Jan 30, 2022)

Zinobile said:


> Oh no!  I was waiting to see the match on YouTube between him & Master Ken



Might need to add this fella to properly demonstrate the multiple attacker element.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jan 30, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Might need to add this fella to properly demonstrate the multiple attacker element.


If anyone asks when did America begin it's decline.  Just show them these shows. Quality just took a dive after that.


----------



## Zinobile (Jan 30, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Might need to add this fella to properly demonstrate the multiple attacker element.


PERFECT!!  Diemon Dave the Trailer Park Ninja & Master Ken team up against Sensei Trigondo & his multi-attacker system!!!!
I'm goin' out & gittin' me a CAPE tuh MARRAH  !!
chop chop


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Feb 1, 2022)

Zinobile said:


> PERFECT!!  Diemon Dave the Trailer Park Ninja & Master Ken team up against Sensei Trigondo & his multi-attacker system!!!!
> I'm goin' out & gittin' me a CAPE tuh MARRAH  !!
> chop chop



Sounds fair: Master Ken's groin stomp and Diemon Dave's cape vs the homemade Thingamuhjiggies of Death™.


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Feb 1, 2022)

Zinobile said:


> PERFECT!!  Diemon Dave the Trailer Park Ninja & Master Ken team up against Sensei Trigondo & his multi-attacker system!!!!
> I'm goin' out & gittin' me a CAPE tuh MARRAH  !!
> chop chop



Good call.
Curz ya cain't be no ninjie withart yer caipe.


Hurts my head just typing that.


----------



## Zinobile (Feb 2, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Sounds fair: Master Ken's groin stomp and Diemon Dave's cape vs the homemade Thingamuhjiggies of Death™.


Ah, OK, thanks for that clarification.  I was thinking those things in English are called Bifurcated Elongated Self-Immolators


----------



## Xue Sheng (Feb 3, 2022)

Did not know this until a few minutes ago...Master Ken is Matt Page and he ha a first degree black belt in Okinawan Kenpo, he studies Jeff Speakman's Kenpo 5.0 and trains BJJ


----------



## RTKDCMB (Feb 4, 2022)

What did I just watch part of?


----------



## Buka (Feb 4, 2022)

Discussions about fighting multiple attackers sometimes put the cart before the horse. Before you can consider fighting multiples, you have to know how to fight. Real fight.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 4, 2022)

Buka said:


> Before you can consider fighting multiples, you have to know how to fight. Real fight.


Also you need to have enough tools in your toolbox that can be used to end a fight (such as knock down, or take down). 

In our MA training, we try to develop those tools and use it effectively.


----------



## Buka (Feb 7, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Also you need to have enough tools in your toolbox that can be used to end a fight (such as knock down, or take down).
> 
> In our MA training, we try to develop those tools and use it effectively.


Yes. That's knowing how to fight.


----------



## RTKDCMB (Feb 8, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Someone cannot say that theese styles are not effective because of shadowboxing.


If that's all they have, then you can.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Feb 22, 2022)

wab25 said:


> See this video, jump ahead to 4:40, to see a more realistic look at what multiple attackers would look like:


 

These videos were marketing vids. meant to make the Marines look good.

Back then, the UFC was struggling financially; nearing bankrupt. The US Marines/Army were their best paid advertiser.  It was win-win as the US Military needed recruits for the never-ending wars post 9/11; plenty of grunt material, watching NHB/UFC.

Any of those UFC Fighters could've just head kicked them, and that would've been it. Urijah Faber was saying on Rogan's podcast that it was pretty easy doing those Marine exercises.


----------



## wab25 (Feb 23, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> These videos were marketing vids. meant to make the Marines look good.
> 
> Back then, the UFC was struggling financially; nearing bankrupt. The US Marines/Army were their best paid advertiser.  It was win-win as the US Military needed recruits for the never-ending wars post 9/11; plenty of grunt material, watching NHB/UFC.
> 
> Any of those UFC Fighters could've just head kicked them, and that would've been it. Urijah Faber was saying on Rogan's podcast that it was pretty easy doing those Marine exercises.


I was using that to show a more realistic example of multiple attacker training... at least an example that was more realistic than watching the choreographed movies shown earlier. Are you saying that it is more realistic when the bad guys all wait in line and attack one at a time?


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 1, 2022)

wab25 said:


> I was using that to show a more realistic example of multiple attacker training... at least an example that was more realistic than watching the choreographed movies shown earlier. Are you saying that it is more realistic when the bad guys all wait in line and attack one at a time?



I was informing you that what you chose, was not "a more realistic example of multiple attacker training", as it was UFC Fighters going easy on those Marines.

This one is more decent, (near the end 2 on 1):


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 2, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I was informing you that what you chose, was not "a more realistic example of multiple attacker training", as it was UFC Fighters going easy on those Marines.
> 
> This one is more decent, (near the end 2 on 1):


That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 3, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.



Yeah they went easy on the girl; unless you want to see her get knocked out or something. Women are usually just smaller & weaker. 

The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.


----------



## wab25 (Mar 3, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.


The issue is not with how hard they are hitting. The issue is that with your video, no one is attacking from behind and no one is attacking while the person is engaged with another attacker. With the UFC guys at the marine core, up on the trail, the UFC guys are immediately hit from behind and attacked while they are engaged with another fighter. The UFC guys are facing marines who are all attacking at once. Your video shows attackers waiting their turn to attack... like they do in movies.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 3, 2022)

wab25 said:


> The issue is not with how hard they are hitting. The issue is that with your video, no one is attacking from behind and no one is attacking while the person is engaged with another attacker. With the UFC guys at the marine core, up on the trail, the UFC guys are immediately hit from behind and attacked while they are engaged with another fighter. The UFC guys are facing marines who are all attacking at once. Your video shows attackers waiting their turn to attack... like they do in movies.



Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol. Even right before that, you heard the Marine Instructor say, "no head kick", b/c those Marines would get dropped. And they were training with foam clubs, making it much easier to to get in on someone.  I mean, why?  Basically Marine Larping.

If you've sparred 2 on 1 vs. trained people (not even fighters yet), you'd know that there are certain dynamics involved.

a) the one alone will usually throw a lot harder as they're under a lot of stress, esp. cardio.
b) the team will usually go lighter as courtesy.
c) this wasn't tap sparring, but light to medium power, which could still KO that girl.

The big guy was the best and the others didn't want to get KO'ed going in like untrained people.

This was at the early stages of this MMA/Krav gym, so they weren't even good yet; ie. not lining up the attackers, pref. the weaker, female in the middle. But still more realistic as this is usually how trained people spar & fight.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 3, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Yeah they went easy on the girl; unless you want to see her get knocked out or something. Women are usually just smaller & weaker.
> 
> The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.


I'm not talking at all about the power used. I'm talking about waiting turns. Light sparring with real intent is more likely to show weaknesses in defense in this context than harder contact without the intent to overwhelm.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Mar 3, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol. Even right before that, you heard the Marine Instructor say, "no head kick", b/c those Marines would get dropped. And they were training with foam clubs, making it much easier to to get in on someone.  I mean, why?  Basically Marine Larping.
> 
> If you've sparred 2 on 1 vs. trained people (not even fighters yet), you'd know that there are certain dynamics involved.
> 
> ...


Marines are tough for sure.  Israeli warriors, sure.

But they're not the toughest creatures out there.  Marines don't do hand to hand combat nowadays do they?  They push buttons at a distance.

My take on Krav Maga (have I ever given one?  I forget) is that it's a good effort, a nice mix of material, if somebody was to dabble very superficially in martial arts.  Obviously if you go deeper, you find other, older, cooler arts.

That said, everyone I ever met who did Krav Maga was a sporto.  That was two people.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 3, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I'm not talking at all about the power used. I'm talking about waiting turns. Light sparring with real intent is more likely to show weaknesses in defense in this context than harder contact without the intent to overwhelm.



Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this? You go in too hard against someone much better, then you'll likely get dropped. The girl was prob. very new at this kind of Krav exercise also; albeit she had good skills in KB.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 3, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> Marines are tough for sure.  Israeli warriors, sure.
> 
> But they're not the toughest creatures out there.  Marines don't do hand to hand combat nowadays do they?  They push buttons at a distance.



In a H2H fight, they usually suck if all they had was their training in the Marines, compared to trained fighters with even just 2 years of training MMA as a hobbyist.



Oily Dragon said:


> My take on Krav Maga (have I ever given one?  I forget) is that it's a good effort, a nice mix of material, if somebody was to dabble very superficially in martial arts.  Obviously if you go deeper, you find other, older, cooler arts.
> 
> That said, everyone I ever met who did Krav Maga was a sporto.  That was two people.



Krav Maga at Level 1 is usually all the buzz words & glamour of Israeli Force this and Israeli Force that.  Level 2 and up is when it becomes more and more just like MMA Lite but with weapons training.  So it is legit.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 4, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this? You go in too hard against someone much better, then you'll likely get dropped. The girl was prob. very new at this kind of Krav exercise also; albeit she had good skills in KB.


You put this up as an example of something more realistic. And your response to the criticism is...odd. I didn't say anything about her going in harder, just like I didn't say anything about the level of power used in my previous comment.

This doesn't reflect actual likely dynamics of a situation like this. There are ways to keep those dynamics, even with a beginner. I've seen start-stop drills (gives the subject a chance to evaluate every few seconds), slower-speed drills (so they aren't overwhelmed by the speed of the attacks), and a couple of others. This drill really just shows them not giving her feedback when she makes a mistake. A tap on the back of the head when they turns their back on an attacker lets them know they messed up.

It's okay for beginners to fail in an exercise. That's how progression works.


----------



## wab25 (Mar 4, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this?


I have.... in Karate, Jujitsu and Aikido.... It is very easy to see the attackers waiting their turn and not attacking from the back, even when the defender gives their back to the attackers. As Gerry says, they should be attacked from behind, whether it be a tap or a grab... not to injure, but to show the failure. 



jayoliver00 said:


> Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol.


This is because Gonzaga trains for UFC fighting... which is one on one, with a referee and rules. He found his opponent, and stayed focused on that one opponent. There used to be video of two UFC fighters that were in a street fight, one did the same thing, focused on his opponent and never saw the other guy run up behind him with a 2x4 and put him in the hospital. If you watched the video, before they took it down, you would have seen this guy do what Gonzaga did, only he was not hit with a foam padded club. 

Whats interesting is that when you watch the marines critique Gonzaga, it was not that he focused on just one opponent that they had an issue with. It was that he sparred with him. In a multiple attacker situation, you are going to die, but he should have gone after one, full force instantly, so that the next marine coming up the hill would have one less attacker to deal with.

Have you ever watched a real fight, where the wrong guy gets the upper hand? When the buddies join in to help out the guy that was supposed to win? No one waits their turn, attacks from behind are usually the ones that end it and no one waits for the guy to finish what is is doing to the opponent before they attack.


----------



## TheArtofDave (Mar 7, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.
> 
> 
> Gerry Seymour said:
> ...


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 7, 2022)

@TheArtofDave  You seem to have gotten your reply into your signature, somehow.


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 7, 2022)

Sensei_trigondo said:


> Dear Martial Art Friends,
> 
> i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.
> 
> ...


Oh man...🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 8, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You put this up as an example of something more realistic. And your response to the criticism is...odd. I didn't say anything about her going in harder, just like I didn't say anything about the level of power used in my previous comment.
> 
> This doesn't reflect actual likely dynamics of a situation like this. There are ways to keep those dynamics, even with a beginner. I've seen start-stop drills (gives the subject a chance to evaluate every few seconds), slower-speed drills (so they aren't overwhelmed by the speed of the attacks), and a couple of others. This drill really just shows them not giving her feedback when she makes a mistake. A tap on the back of the head when they turns their back on an attacker lets them know they messed up.
> 
> It's okay for beginners to fail in an exercise. That's how progression works.




I should've been more clear that I was using only the tall White guy as the "example of something more realistic".

Yes I agree with you that the girl sucked.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 8, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I should've been more clear that I was using only the tall White guy as the "example of something more realistic".
> 
> Yes I agree with you that the girl sucked.


None of my commentary was even about her. I commented on the unrealistic attack sequencing.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 8, 2022)

wab25 said:


> I have.... in Karate, Jujitsu and Aikido.... It is very easy to see the attackers waiting their turn and not attacking from the back, even when the defender gives their back to the attackers. As Gerry says, they should be attacked from behind, whether it be a tap or a grab... not to injure, but to show the failure.



I was only talking about the tall White guy in that video.

This is because Gonzaga trains for UFC fighting... which is one on one, with a referee and rules. He found his opponent, and stayed focused on that one opponent. 

I just told you that it was a marketing video for The Marines. 



wab25 said:


> There used to be video of two UFC fighters that were in a street fight, one did the same thing, focused on his opponent and never saw the other guy run up behind him with a 2x4 and put him in the hospital. If you watched the video, before they took it down, you would have seen this guy do what Gonzaga did, only he was not hit with a foam padded club.



Your facts are wrong. Only Falcão was a UFC fighter. And that incident didn't prove anything other than they got attacked by 5-6 people.  Falcão & Mena were drunk and were there to buy more alcohol....making sexual advances at a girl & then hit her. 



wab25 said:


> Whats interesting is that when you watch the marines critique Gonzaga, it was not that he focused on just one opponent that they had an issue with. It was that he sparred with him. In a multiple attacker situation, you are going to die, but he should have gone after one, full force instantly, so that the next marine coming up the hill would have one less attacker to deal with.



Once again, it was a marketing video for the Marines; the UFC's biggest & most reliable, paid advertiser, at a point when they were about to go bankrupt. They're not going to go around beating up Marines on videos.  Urijah Faber even said on a Joe Rogan podcast that those exercises were pretty easy and they were holding back on those Marines.



wab25 said:


> Have you ever watched a real fight, where the wrong guy gets the upper hand? When the buddies join in to help out the guy that was supposed to win? No one waits their turn, attacks from behind are usually the ones that end it and no one waits for the guy to finish what is is doing to the opponent before they attack.



Yea, and that doesn't mean anything as not all fights will happen the way that you think they do.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 8, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> None of my commentary was even about her. I commented on the unrealistic attack sequencing.



Ok, so was the girl in the video, unrealistic and therefore, sucked?


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

I know a guy who made up a system and he was the Grandmaster but honestly other people in martial arts laughed at him. It was painful to watch his training 😶


----------



## wab25 (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I was only talking about the tall White guy in that video.
> 
> This is because Gonzaga trains for UFC fighting... which is one on one, with a referee and rules. He found his opponent, and stayed focused on that one opponent.
> 
> ...


So, lets get back to the point. Are you saying that in real world multiple attacker situations, that the attackers will attack one at a time, each waiting their turn as their buddy make his attack, that they will patiently wait for their buddy to be dealt with... before the second one attacks? And further, that they will never attack from behind? Are you saying that the attackers will never simultaneously attack, all at once from all directions? 

Whether it was a demo reel or not, the marines were showing simultaneous attacks from all attackers, from all angels. Are you saying this is not how multiple attackers work? 



jayoliver00 said:


> And that incident didn't prove anything other than they got attacked by 5-6 people.


Further, the 5 or 6 people forgot to take turns attacking, and attacked from behind... this never happens in the real world.... Oh wait...


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

wab25 said:


> So, lets get back to the point. Are you saying that in real world multiple attacker situations, that the attackers will attack one at a time, each waiting their turn as their buddy make his attack, that they will patiently wait for their buddy to be dealt with... before the second one attacks? And further, that they will never attack from behind? Are you saying that the attackers will never simultaneously attack, all at once from all directions?



No.

But, "are you saying that in real world multiple attacker situations, that the attackers will" always "simultaneously attack, all at once from all directions"?



wab25 said:


> Whether it was a demo reel or not, the marines were showing simultaneous attacks from all attackers, from all angels. Are you saying this is not how multiple attackers work?



I'm saying that what you posted, was a choreographed & paid promotion for the US Marine Corp.; otherwise, Gonzaga would've clobbered both of them if it was hard sparring. 



wab25 said:


> Further, the 5 or 6 people forgot to take turns attacking, and attacked from behind... this never happens in the real world.... Oh wait...



Just calm down, and read the above.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

SgtBarnes said:


> I know a guy who made up a system and he was the Grandmaster but honestly other people in martial arts laughed at him. It was painful to watch his training 😶



True. I think when they try to make up some system that's supposed to work, they'd need to show a video that they can beat someone down in a hard sparring session. Like a comparable student of size, age w/good skills & experience. Otherwise, it's fantasy.


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> No.
> 
> But, "are you saying that in real world multiple attacker situations, that the attackers will" always "simultaneously attack, all at once from all directions"?


99%   of the time...yup


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

SgtBarnes said:


> 99%   of the time...yup



Prove this, otherwise it's made up.


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## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Prove this, otherwise it's made up.


how should i prove it? should i go in a bar and shout anyone want a fight? 
i suggest you come down to reality bro...


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

SgtBarnes said:


> how should i prove it? should i go in a bar and shout anyone want a fight?
> i suggest you come down to reality bro...



because you just made up that 99% number from watching movies or something...yet you want to talk about reality?


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> because you just made up that 99% number from watching movies or something...yet you want to talk about reality?


haha....honestly man....    either you´re trolling or you are very naive


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

SgtBarnes said:


> haha....honestly man....    either you´re trolling or you are very naive



I'm just calling you out on your madeup stats & training. Is that wrong?


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I'm just calling you out on your madeup stats & training. Is that wrong?


calling me out?


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 9, 2022)

SgtBarnes said:


> calling me out?



yea


----------



## SgtBarnes (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> yea


oooooh


----------



## wab25 (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> But, "are you saying that in real world multiple attacker situations, that the attackers will" always "simultaneously attack, all at once from all directions"?


"Always" is an interesting word.... In the real world, "always" can usually be proven wrong.... it only takes one instance to prove "always" wrong. I will say that in the real world, the attackers usually will not wait their turn, they usually will not engage one at a time, waiting to see how their buddy does before they jump in and they usually will attack from behind... as shown in your video.... they came up with that phrase "sucker punch" for a reason.

When training for a real multiple attacker situation, you need to move beyond attackers that wait their turn, and don't attack from behind... Movies, Trigondo and your video very much showed the attackers waiting their turn and not attacking from behind, even when they could have, because the defender turned their back to an attacker.


jayoliver00 said:


> I'm saying that what you posted, was a choreographed & paid promotion for the US Marine Corp.; otherwise, Gonzaga would've clobbered both of them if it was hard sparring.


Choreographed or not, the Marine video showed attackers not waiting their turn, and attacking from behind. This is more realistic, even if you go with "it is more realistic choreography."

I am not sure why you are so adamant, that this was choreography, and that Gonzaga would win... Gonzaga trains for a sporting match, that is one on one with no weapons. That is a different game. If someone stabs you with a knife, bayonet or machete... your UFC record is not going to save you. The corrections that the Marines offered him were not about his fighting skill or prowess or ability to defeat any one of them in a UFC match. The corrections were about not dancing around like you are sparring, but go kill one, now. Taking a hill in military combat is very different than fighting a sporting match, and requires a different mindset.

UFC guys are not invincible:





Well, maybe Gonzaga is... but he would be the only one. The rest of us mere mortals are vincible.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 9, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Ok, so was the girl in the video, unrealistic and therefore, sucked?


Again, my commentary wasn't about her. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 10, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Again, my commentary wasn't about her. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.



Your commentary was about the entire video that I posted as a whole, complaining.

In post #128, you said: "That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited."

That's why I asked you to clarify, that she sucked.

C'mon, you can answer this one now since Women's Day is over (lol i'm just playing).


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 10, 2022)

s


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 10, 2022)

wab25 said:


> "Always" is an interesting word.... In the real world, "always" can usually be proven wrong.... it only takes one instance to prove "always" wrong. I will say that in the real world, the attackers usually will not wait their turn, they usually will not engage one at a time, waiting to see how their buddy does before they jump in and they usually will attack from behind... as shown in your video.... they came up with that phrase "sucker punch" for a reason.
> 
> When training for a real multiple attacker situation, you need to move beyond attackers that wait their turn, and don't attack from behind... Movies, Trigondo and your video very much showed the attackers waiting their turn and not attacking from behind, even when they could have, because the defender turned their back to an attacker.
> 
> ...



Gonzaga is from the 'hood of Rio; you think he doesn't know street survival?

And dude, the Marines don't even use bayonets any longer. You're getting stuff from movies now.



wab25 said:


> UFC guys are not invincible:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You clearly don't know what happened in this video. This was BJ Penn, drunk and fighting with someone that was an acquaintance. He was letting the guy punching him in the face to show that they guy couldn't KO him.  He obviously was really drunk. After that Penn took him down and could've have killed him easy. It was just some dumb drunken fight that you're trying to use as an end to all claim that UFC fighters only train for sports, blah blah. What about Mike Tyson? You think Tyson doesn't know how to fight in the streets since he's a Sports Fighter?


----------



## wab25 (Mar 10, 2022)

So, this is getting silly. We will have to agree to disagree here. 

I don't believe that real multiple attacker situations involve the attackers waiting their turn, watching as you handle one of their buddies and don't attack from the rear, as they did in your video. As long as you feel that your video shows a realistic multiple attacker situation... maybe you should start or continue your training in Trigondo... you and the founder seem to have the same view as to how a real world multiple attacker situation plays out. I hope you enjoy the training and get fulfillment out of it.



jayoliver00 said:


> Gonzaga is from the 'hood of Rio; you think he doesn't know street survival?


Dude, I am from the 'hood of Durham California... I know street survival, and what a real world multiple attacker situation is...


----------



## Martial D (Mar 10, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Prove this, otherwise it's made up.


Yes you are right. When a group of people decide to jump someone, they are generally polite enough to take turns. I mean. Manners right? Plus it wouldn't be nice to not give the guy a fair chance.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Mar 10, 2022)

wab25 said:


> So, this is getting silly. We will have to agree to disagree here...


Silly started the thread.  Now we're somewhere between "why are we doing this" and "what does it all mean".


----------



## drop bear (Mar 10, 2022)

Martial D said:


> Yes you are right. When a group of people decide to jump someone, they are generally polite enough to take turns. I mean. Manners right? Plus it wouldn't be nice to not give the guy a fair chance.



It depends.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 10, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Your commentary was about the entire video that I posted as a whole, complaining.
> 
> In post #128, you said: "That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited."
> 
> ...


Which was a commentary on…wait for it…the person who waited while her back was turned. 

What, exactly, are you hoping to gain by repeatedly asking me to say she sucks? Hmmm?


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 10, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Gonzaga is from the 'hood of Rio; you think he doesn't know street survival?



Da $+R33+ - is the realz dealz

Let me ask a few questions and before I begin, for the answer is Yes to the same questions?
Have you been shot at? (* Never been shot - pure luck - closest went between my legs *)
Have you been stabbed?
Have you been cut?
Have you been tazed?
Have you been hit by a car?
Truck?
Have you and four others gone through a plate glass window? 

The list of weapons goes on and on just let me list some highlights
Baseball Bats, wood and aluminum, Golf Clubs, cricket, screw drivers, ...

So I know / knew them streets. It doesn't matter here. 

Also those Streets were Flint Michigan when the city was known for being the Murder Capital of the US. 




jayoliver00 said:


> And dude, the Marines don't even use bayonets any longer. You're getting stuff from movies now.



DUDE !  The British have used the Bayonet in Afghan !
Whoa !




jayoliver00 said:


> You clearly don't know what happened in this video. This was BJ Penn, drunk and fighting with someone that was an acquaintance. He was letting the guy punching him in the face to show that they guy couldn't KO him.  He obviously was really drunk. After that Penn took him down and could've have killed him easy. It was just some dumb drunken fight that you're trying to use as an end to all claim that UFC fighters only train for sports, blah blah. What about Mike Tyson? You think Tyson doesn't know how to fight in the streets since he's a Sports Fighter?



Clear You seem to be an expert, that wants to tell people how it is, without any discussion and just simple appeals to authority. 

"Have a Nice Day"


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Da $+R33+ - is the realz dealz
> 
> Let me ask a few questions and before I begin, for the answer is Yes to the same questions?
> Have you been shot at? (* Never been shot - pure luck - closest went between my legs *)
> ...



That's so sad. I'm sorry that you were a victim so many times. May I suggest, more training next time and/or getting a better job in order to move to a better place.



Rich Parsons said:


> DUDE !  The British have used the Bayonet in Afghan !
> Whoa !



LOL, you searched hard for "Marines using bayonets" & only found this one about the British, right? Next, you'll post the full story that you found on Google about how that ONE time that British soldier was able to fend off an attack with his bayonet.

Back to what I was talking about, which were the US Marines. No bayonets. Doh.



Rich Parsons said:


> Clear You seem to be an expert, that wants to tell people how it is, without any discussion and just simple appeals to authority.
> 
> "Have a Nice Day"



Why are you mad? I merely explained what happened to BJ Penn in that video based on news accounts to disprove the other guy's assertions.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Which was a commentary on…wait for it…the person who waited while her back was turned.
> 
> What, exactly, are you hoping to gain by repeatedly asking me to say she sucks? Hmmm?



I mean, it's the truth.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Martial D said:


> Yes you are right. When a group of people decide to jump someone, they are generally polite enough to take turns. I mean. Manners right? Plus it wouldn't be nice to not give the guy a fair chance.



He posted a percentage number of 99.  Shouldn't he be required to prove this if he's using it as an argument?


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

wab25 said:


> So, this is getting silly. We will have to agree to disagree here.
> 
> I don't believe that real multiple attacker situations involve the attackers waiting their turn, watching as you handle one of their buddies and don't attack from the rear, as they did in your video. As long as you feel that your video shows a realistic multiple attacker situation... maybe you should start or continue your training in Trigondo... you and the founder seem to have the same view as to how a real world multiple attacker situation plays out. I hope you enjoy the training and get fulfillment out of it.



LOL, when you start with "We will have to agree to disagree here", but then proceed with another lengthy argument, then you're not really agreeing to disagree. 

But it sounds like you missed my memo about that video I posted; as I was only referring to the White guy's performance being good. While the other 2 were newer at that stage of sparring vs. multiple attackers.



wab25 said:


> Dude, I am from the 'hood of Durham California... I know street survival, and what a real world multiple attacker situation is...



You had me at "hood of Durham California", LOL.   That is, until you made your "real world multiple attacker situation" doctrine.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 11, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I mean, it's the truth.


If you're clear on that, why are you asking me? Again, what's your intent?


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> If you're clear on that, why are you asking me? Again, what's your intent?



To clarify who you thought failed in that video.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Mar 11, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> To clarify who you thought failed in that video.


You, in holding it up as an example of realistic multi-attacker defense, when a very unrealistic attack sequence happened in the first few seconds.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You, in holding it up as an example of realistic multi-attacker defense, when a very unrealistic attack sequence happened in the first few seconds.



Again, I meant only what the White guy was successful; but again, mostly due to the other 2 being more fearful of him.

What's more realistic about my video is that people are actually getting hit and not choreographed like the Marines vs UFC vid.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Mar 11, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> That's so sad. I'm sorry that you were a victim so many times. May I suggest, more training next time and/or getting a better job in order to move to a better place.



In all those cases, I won. And it was the best paying job for me at the time and it helped pay for College and a BS Degree work as an engineer. 



jayoliver00 said:


> LOL, you searched hard for "Marines using bayonets" & only found this one about the British, right? Next, you'll post the full story that you found on Google about how that ONE time that British soldier was able to fend off an attack with his bayonet.
> 
> Back to what I was talking about, which were the US Marines. No bayonets. Doh.



Well as pointed out Always and Never just almost always never work well in these types of discussions. 



jayoliver00 said:


> Why are you mad? I merely explained what happened to BJ Penn in that video based on news accounts to disprove the other guy's assertions.




Not Mad - Just reflecting 
If you see anger then the anger is from you.


----------



## jayoliver00 (Mar 11, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> In all those cases, I won. And it was the best paying job for me at the time and it helped pay for College and a BS Degree work as an engineer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You still live in Michigan. 

I'm glad you're training, Trigondo though.


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## Steve (Mar 11, 2022)




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## wab25 (Mar 11, 2022)

Sorry, I meant to stay away from this thread...



jayoliver00 said:


> And dude, the Marines don't even use bayonets any longer. You're getting stuff from movies now.





jayoliver00 said:


> LOL, you searched hard for "Marines using bayonets" & only found this one about the British, right? Next, you'll post the full story that you found on Google about how that ONE time that British soldier was able to fend off an attack with his bayonet.
> 
> Back to what I was talking about, which were the US Marines. No bayonets. Doh.


Interestingly, if you watch the whole video, or just cut to the 2:10 in the video you will see the Marines training with... you guessed it, bayonets.





If you go to 4:17, one of the weapons they can take is a bayonet trainer.

Then there is this at 2:23:





Interesting that someone would know the entire back story, and how it was choreographed, but not know that they were using bayonets...


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## Martial D (Mar 11, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> He posted a percentage number of 99.  Shouldn't he be required to prove this if he's using it as an argument?


Isn't that a little pedantic?

Can you honestly imagine any scenario where a group of people jump a single individual and proceed to try to keep it fair and turn based?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 11, 2022)

Martial D said:


> Isn't that a little pedantic?
> 
> Can you honestly imagine any scenario where a group of people jump a single individual and proceed to try to keep it fair and turn based?


When that person paid them in advance to jump him, so he can beat them all up and impress his gf? That and the movies are the only things I can think of, and in either case I don't think the "victim's" actual skill level would matter.


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## Martial D (Mar 11, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> When that person paid them in advance to jump him, so he can beat them all up and impress his gf? That and the movies are the only things I can think of, and in either case I don't think the "victim's" actual skill level would matter.


"Hey man quit stomping him it's my turn"

"No, you went before Steve, it's Chris' turn"

"Screw it lets start over"


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## Steve (Mar 11, 2022)

Martial D said:


> "Hey man quit stomping him it's my turn"
> 
> "No, you went before Steve, it's Chris' turn"
> 
> "Screw it lets start over"


How did you know me and my brother, Chris, used to take turns stomping dudes?   Uncanny!


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## drop bear (Mar 11, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Sorry, I meant to stay away from this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That video is pretty old. I think that have stopped doing bayonet courses since then. 

And of course the Royal marines are not the American marines.


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 12, 2022)

Martial D said:


> Isn't that a little pedantic?



No b/c he's throwing up a 99% out of 100, from nowhere. That's not a small error; he's claiming to be an authority on the subject with such a claim. 



Martial D said:


> Can you honestly imagine any scenario where a group of people jump a single individual and proceed to try to keep it fair and turn based?



There are many factors involved, such as footwork, speed, and how fast you can clobber & up to KO'ing the first or the first two of the group; which are usually the toughest of said group. It's not like in the movies where every group you run into are gangs, willing to bang. Many people don't even want to fight or will get scared if they see their toughest get dropped. 

Of course you can get jumped at once & possibly die; that's why I actually train for this pretty regularly with specific techniques that do work. If you spar 1v2 or 1v3 or more, often, you'd know what I'm talking about. And it's pretty easy for me to knock someone out who's usually untrained, in the streets w/no 16oz gloves on.


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 12, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Sorry, I meant to stay away from this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why are you posting old videos?  That first one looks like a 1st gent M16 from The Vietnam War, lol.   You know that they're issued  M4A1's and M16A4's now, right?  I'm pretty sure there are no bayonet lugs on those.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 12, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Why are you posting old videos?  That first one looks like a 1st gent M16 from The Vietnam War, lol.   You know that they're issued  M4A1's and M16A4's now, right?  I'm pretty sure there are no bayonet lugs on those.



You made an appeal to authority and never addressed it - just attacked the poster. 

People can post what ever they want, within the rules, so there is no need to reply to your question as you have not answered questions to you . 

Just my opinion


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 12, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> You made an appeal to authority and never addressed it - just attacked the poster.
> 
> People can post what ever they want, within the rules, so there is no need to reply to your question as you have not answered questions to you .
> 
> Just my opinion


 
He trying to argue against my point that The Marines aren't issued bayonets any longer, by posting really old videos, even one where they're training w/ Vietnam War era, M16's.  I'm just calling him out on his flawed attempt.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 12, 2022)

Steve said:


> How did you know me and my brother, Chris, used to take turns stomping dudes?   Uncanny!


Wait...you and Chris (P) are brothers? Well that explains a lot...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 12, 2022)

So I googled whether "are marines given bayonets?" Because honestly I hadn't any idea those were still a thing. The first search result says that there's a bayonet assault training course all marines take, but that's from 2014. The second result is this, from less than a year ago, explaining why they're still a thing. The next few results all state that the marines use bayonets. 

I honestly was expecting the answer to be no, that they've been replaced with easily accessible knives or brass knuckles, but apparently they're still in use, or at least trained, by the marines.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 12, 2022)

Martial D said:


> "Hey man quit stomping him it's my turn"
> 
> "No, you went before Steve, it's Chris' turn"
> 
> "Screw it lets start over"


You know they'd never manage to wait their turns. Students can't manage to wait their turn in class, when they KNOW they're supposed to.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 12, 2022)

Steve said:


> How did you know me and my brother, Chris, used to take turns stomping dudes?   Uncanny!


If it helps, I hear this exchange in my head in the voices of the trailer kids who got presents by accident in a Family Guy Christmas episode.

"It's my sex box."
"Her name is Sony."


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## Steve (Mar 12, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Wait...you and Chris (P) are brothers? Well that explains a lot...


😳


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## _Simon_ (Mar 13, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Wait...you and Chris (P) are brothers? Well that explains a lot...


HAHAHAHAHA ah man, good one 🤣


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 13, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> You made an appeal to authority and never addressed it - just attacked the poster.
> 
> People can post what ever they want, within the rules, so there is no need to reply to your question as you have not answered questions to you .
> 
> Just my opinion



No, I refuted his argument. How did I attack him personally?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 13, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> No, I refuted his argument. How did I attack him personally?


You attacked me personally 
With red herrings


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 13, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> He trying to argue against my point that The Marines aren't issued bayonets any longer, by posting really old videos, even one where they're training w/ Vietnam War era, M16's.  I'm just calling him out on his flawed attempt.


Just another red Herring


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 13, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> You attacked me personally
> With red herrings



Who posted those old videos of Marines using Vietnam War M16s?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 13, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Who posted those old videos of Marines using Vietnam War M16s?


You appealed to authority with an appeal to streets
You have never addressed that. 
So , if the appeal was wrong, then admit it and acknowledge your point there was not valid. 
If your appeal was correct then acknowledge that my Street was greater than your street and therefor my point was better than your point. 

....
Or you could just be a productive member, ask questions that are not like a troll. 
Stop your standard red herring and change of topic to change the view from you. 
Discuss the topic at hand. And for the thread in particular. 

And yes be at peace and Have a Nice Day. - As that seems to make one angry in your mind.


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## drop bear (Mar 13, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Just another red Herring



Not a red herring. And it is not trolling

If the video is old. Then it doesn't prove what the poster is trying to say.

That is just basic fact checking. Which is being a productive member.

Now having a look. Marines probably do still use and train bayonets. That's fine. There are better ways to make that counter argument. Than whatever this is.


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## drop bear (Mar 13, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> So I googled whether "are marines given bayonets?" Because honestly I hadn't any idea those were still a thing. The first search result says that there's a bayonet assault training course all marines take, but that's from 2014. The second result is this, from less than a year ago, explaining why they're still a thing. The next few results all state that the marines use bayonets.
> 
> I honestly was expecting the answer to be no, that they've been replaced with easily accessible knives or brass knuckles, but apparently they're still in use, or at least trained, by the marines.



Yeah. I had read somewhere they had stopped doing the course. But apparently no.


This is the army which of course is different. 









						One less skill for soldiers to master at boot camp: bayonet training
					

Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling opted to discontinue bayonet training for Army recruits. After all, the last US bayonet charge was in 1951. But in the weeks since that decision, Hertling has had some pushback.




					www.csmonitor.com


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## drop bear (Mar 13, 2022)

Now the problem with scenario driven exercises like that one the MMA fighters did is that it is set up with a script in mind. And so can be manufactured to make a point.

This means it is not a really real test of objectives. It is a marketing exercise.

I have seen krav do this from time to time. Get a guy to run a course have a half dozen guys to maul them. Get a krav guy to do the course and suddenly he clears the room.

It is snake oil in that particular instance. And is a very poor way to support a point.

If you want to make a case for a multiple opponent style system you have to back it up against guys you don't know who are really invested in getting you.

Otherwise there is no real case for that system. And you are better off using a system that can support itself based on its own merits.

At 5 minute's in.





It goes from stab and wait to sewing machine.


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## wab25 (Mar 14, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Why are you posting old videos? That first one looks like a 1st gent M16 from The Vietnam War, lol.


Why am I posting old videos? Well, its very simple actually.... and I thought it would be obvious... especially to someone who knows the entire back story of the UFC fighters going to visit the Marines. The first video was of those UFC fighters visiting the Marines... where the Marines used bayonets in there training, at the time the UFC guys visited them. Further, it showed that some of the weapons used when the UFC fighters went against the Marines were in fact, bayonet training weapons... 

The second video was of other Marines also training with bayonets, sorry that it was not from 2022. The point has since been made here, that the Marines do still train with bayonets.

So, since bayonets are trained by the Marines still, and since bayonets were used by the Marines when the UFC guys visited them, and since bayonet trainers were used by and against the UFC fighters when they fought the Marines... my comments mentioning the use of bayonets were not so out of line.

And why don't you recognize the exact video we were talking about, where the UFC fighters went to visit the Marines? You claim to be an expert on that video, yet you did not recognize it when you saw it...


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 14, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Not a red herring. And it is not trolling
> 
> If the video is old. Then it doesn't prove what the poster is trying to say.
> 
> ...


Drop Bear, 
Back up to a previous comment where he told me and others that he was right as they and him had STREET cred. 
I challenged is street cred. 
He never answered. 
He changes the subject attacked me. 
Those are trolling behaviors. 

If he doesn't want to be labeled as a troll then don't act like one


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## drop bear (Mar 14, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Drop Bear,
> Back up to a previous comment where he told me and others that he was right as they and him had STREET cred.
> I challenged is street cred.
> He never answered.
> ...



You challenged his street cred?

On the internet?


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 15, 2022)

drop bear said:


> You challenged his street cred?
> 
> On the internet?


He brought it up first. 
So I figured it was open for discussion.


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## Buka (Mar 15, 2022)

"Street cred" is such a wonderfully goofy term. I love it.


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 16, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> You appealed to authority with an appeal to streets
> You have never addressed that.
> So , if the appeal was wrong, then admit it and acknowledge your point there was not valid.
> If your appeal was correct then acknowledge that my Street was greater than your street and therefor my point was better than your point.
> ...



How did I change the subject? He said "Marines training with... you guessed it, bayonets", in his own post where he linked that UFC Fighters vs. Marines, video.

It was his topic that I refuted.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> How did I change the subject? He said "Marines training with... you guessed it, bayonets", in his own post where he linked that UFC Fighters vs. Marines, video.
> 
> It was his topic that I refuted.



You wrote :




I wrote:




Then you wrote:





You cannot appeal to Authority "The streets" in one post and then say it is bad in the next post. 

You also wrote: 




So besides saying street **** is cool, and then it is not and implying I suck for where I live, you then say I am mad. 
I never called you a name. 
I never implied you were bad. 
I never said anything about you personally. 
I asked about your experience in Street since it mattered to you. 

And then you ASSUMED I was mad. 
For trying to have a conversation. 
And instead you state I am reacting to you poorly, (* which is a troll behavior to get others to also see people in that light *) and demeaned the thing you were just praising and implying I could or should have done better . 

Your trolling people here in my opinion. 
If you can imply or state things about me I can do the same about you. 

Correct? 

So either Street doesn't matter and you consider the point of the piece of the argument is moot, or you can answer the questions I asked you? 
As you are asking others to answer your questions. 

Why would anyone answer a question for you if you refuse , then why can't others also refuse or just change the topic? 

PS: If you wish to report my posts, which could generate a complete review of this post thread and this complete thread I am cool with any lumps the wonder staff wishes to provide me.


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 16, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Why am I posting old videos? Well, its very simple actually.... and I thought it would be obvious... especially to someone who knows the entire back story of the UFC fighters going to visit the Marines. The first video was of those UFC fighters visiting the Marines... where the Marines used bayonets in there training, at the time the UFC guys visited them. Further, it showed that some of the weapons used when the UFC fighters went against the Marines were in fact, bayonet training weapons...





wab25 said:


> The second video was of other Marines also training with bayonets, sorry that it was not from 2022. The point has since been made here, that the Marines do still train with bayonets.
> 
> So, since bayonets are trained by the Marines still, and since bayonets were used by the Marines when the UFC guys visited them, and since bayonet trainers were used by and against the UFC fighters when they fought the Marines... my comments mentioning the use of bayonets were not so out of line.
> 
> And why don't you recognize the exact video we were talking about, where the UFC fighters went to visit the Marines? You claim to be an expert on that video, yet you did not recognize it when you saw it...




Haha no, you were trying to prove that UFC Fighters didn't know how to fight 1 on 2 w/your posting of that UFC vs Marines video; w/o knowing the full back story of that video so I merely educated you on it. 

For someone who claims that your Trigondor style is supposed to be based on so much realism; your choice of videos (in trying to further your position) is pretty silly. I mean, why would 2 Marines not just shoot at a guy coming at them with a rifle? Or did all 3 of them run out of ammo or something?


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 16, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> You wrote :
> View attachment 28207
> I wrote:
> View attachment 28208
> ...




Can you sum that up please?


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## wab25 (Mar 16, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> How did I change the subject? He said "Marines training with... you guessed it, bayonets", in his own post where he linked that UFC Fighters vs. Marines, video.
> 
> It was his topic that I refuted.


Interestingly, it is that video, of the UFC fighters going to train with the Marines, which shows the Marines training with bayonets... and the UFC fighters being offered bayonet trainers to use on the trail. You then called that an old video that was out of context.... sorry dude, that was the video of the UFC fighters training with the Marines, using... you guessed it, bayonets. It calls into question how much you really know about the UFC Fighters visiting the Marines... first you don't know that the Marines were using bayonets, as were the UFC fighters and secondly, you don't even recognize the video from the event.


jayoliver00 said:


> For someone who claims that your Trigondor style is supposed to be based on so much realism; your choice of videos (in trying to further your position) is pretty silly.


Sorry. I am not the OP nor the founder or even a student of Trigondo. However, the Trigondo founder posted videos of what he considered real life multiple attacker scenarios... Your video was no different than his. Both videos showed the attackers waiting their turn, so that the defender only had one person to deal with at a time and both videos showed the attackers refusing to attack from behind.


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 16, 2022)

wab25 said:


> Interestingly, it is that video, of the UFC fighters going to train with the Marines, which shows the Marines training with bayonets... and the UFC fighters being offered bayonet trainers to use on the trail. You then called that an old video that was out of context.... sorry dude, that was the video of the UFC fighters training with the Marines, using... you guessed it, bayonets. It calls into question how much you really know about the UFC Fighters visiting the Marines... first you don't know that the Marines were using bayonets, as were the UFC fighters and secondly, you don't even recognize the video from the event.



Once again, that was a Marines promo videos, meant to make the Marines look good & recruit bodies for America's unending wars in the ME.



wab25 said:


> Sorry. I am not the OP nor the founder or even a student of Trigondo. However, the Trigondo founder posted videos of what he considered real life multiple attacker scenarios... Your video was no different than his. Both videos showed the attackers waiting their turn, so that the defender only had one person to deal with at a time and both videos showed the attackers refusing to attack from behind.



Once again, you clearly don't spar vs. multiple opponents regularly enough to understand the dynamics involved.

Once again, the video I posted is a lot more realistic b/c it's actually students getting hit, not a choreography with multiple takes & edits.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 16, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> Can you sum that up please?



Trolling
Trolling
Trolling
Keep them Trolls a rolling


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 17, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Trolling
> Trolling
> Trolling
> Keep them Trolls a rolling



I was being serious.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 19, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I was being serious.


So was I


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## jayoliver00 (Mar 21, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> So was I



So what's the summary though.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 21, 2022)

Go ahead and post again to get the Last word
It is ok. 
I know many who act like you are acting need to have the last word so they can feel like they won. 
And so they can show all those who read this that they got the last word so their words must have been right / correct. 

Go ahead. Please. 
it is yours. 

I grant you this.


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## jks9199 (Mar 21, 2022)

Thread locked pending staff review.

jks9199
Administrator


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