# Technique for the Reverse Punch



## PhotonGuy (Nov 27, 2014)

When I was first taught the reverse punch, I was taught to throw it center, another words, to aim towards the center of the body. Then, at this other dojo I was taught to not center the reverse punch but rather to throw it straight forward because you get more power that way due to leverage. The tradeoff is its not as accurate against an opponent who would be standing directly in front and thus might require a step to the side in order to hit the center of the opponent's body. Personally I think both methods have their advantages and disadvantages and I think its easier to transition from a center punch to a forward punch than from a forward punch to a center punch.


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## Zero (Nov 27, 2014)

Sorry, I'm a simple guy, can you draw a picture for us?  In what way are you differentiating between throwing to centre and throwing straight forward?


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## donald1 (Nov 27, 2014)

imo, if i use a reverse punch i like to do a technique before that. maybe something to slight distract the opponent or open up a certain target


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## Zero (Nov 27, 2014)

Yup, my old sensei was very good at throwing a high snap kick and transitioning straight to a punch to the bread-basket, knocked the air outa me a few times with that one.

Without the set-up it can be used as a direct response to an incoming high punch.


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## Transk53 (Nov 27, 2014)

Reverse punch, the backhand no?


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## donald1 (Nov 27, 2014)

Transk53 said:


> Reverse punch, the backhand no?



yep, the reverse punch is done with the backhand


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 27, 2014)

It doesn't sound like you're taking about a different technique so much as a different target. 


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 27, 2014)

Thats how I was taught. Straight out.  Move your body to target where you want to hit not your hand


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 27, 2014)

You are going to want to cut in to you own center line. Straight off the shoulder is weak, but I may not understand the question.


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## PhotonGuy (Nov 27, 2014)

Zero said:


> Sorry, I'm a simple guy, can you draw a picture for us?  In what way are you differentiating between throwing to centre and throwing straight forward?



If you're standing in front of a mirror, to throw the reverse punch to the center would mean aiming it at the line that goes vertically directly through the center of the body of your mirror image, so you would be throwing it towards the solar plexus or some other target located on that center line. To throw it straight forward you would be aiming at a target on the line that goes vertically through the shoulder of the punching arm down through the same side leg as the punching arm.


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## K-man (Nov 27, 2014)

I think you are confusing kihon with the practical application. In kihon the instructor could have your arm in either position without it being 'wrong' in either. In kihon I would teach it straight out from the shoulder, not to the centre, but that is just me. In application you will punch to wherever the target is. If your opponent is directly in front of you you would position your body, as *ballen* pointed out above, to deliver the strike with maximum power.


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## elder999 (Nov 27, 2014)

You can angle off-center on the block, push the opponent's arm up with the block, and reverse punch to the armpit. 

First time I did this to someone, I thought I'd killed him, he went down so fast!


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## drop bear (Nov 28, 2014)

I don't think there is that much power difference between them.

if you desperately want to throw the thing straight out. Cut a little angle and you would hit them square on.


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## drop bear (Nov 28, 2014)

Zero said:


> Sorry, I'm a simple guy, can you draw a picture for us?  In what way are you differentiating between throwing to centre and throwing straight forward?



ok.looking at just the right hand.

it is on the right side of the body so if the punch is thrown straight it will land wide to the right.


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## PhotonGuy (Dec 3, 2014)

From my experience its easy to start throwing the punch straight out if you're used to throwing it center. Its much harder to transition to throwing it center if you're used to throwing it straight out.


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## Dinkydoo (Dec 3, 2014)

Why wouldn't you want to punch towards your centre? If there isnt a target there is not that usually an indication that you've done something wrong/missed/been caught out.  

The punch doesn't have to follow a completely straight line a la Wing Chun but in terms of correct body mechanics, a hook should travel through the same target (eventually) that a reverse does.

Am I misunderstanding something here?


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 3, 2014)

Dinkydoo said:


> Why wouldn't you want to punch towards your centre? If there isnt a target there is not that usually an indication that you've done something wrong/missed/been caught out.
> 
> The punch doesn't have to follow a completely straight line a la Wing Chun but in terms of correct body mechanics, a hook should travel through the same target (eventually) that a reverse does.
> 
> Am I misunderstanding something here?



I don't know about "travel[ing] through the same target"...

If we're facing each other, in a fairly square boxers stance, then a straight punch would be targeting the solar plexus. A hook would be targeting the ribs or liver. I like to think that I can generate a fair bit of power, for an Old Fart, but I don't think I could target the solar plexus with a hook.


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## drop bear (Dec 3, 2014)

Dinkydoo said:


> Why wouldn't you want to punch towards your centre? If there isnt a target there is not that usually an indication that you've done something wrong/missed/been caught out.
> 
> The punch doesn't have to follow a completely straight line a la Wing Chun but in terms of correct body mechanics, a hook should travel through the same target (eventually) that a reverse does.
> 
> Am I misunderstanding something here?



the idea is that mechanically you loose power because you are punching at an angle.

it is no longer 90 degrees from the body.

you could do it. But you would have to angle off.


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## K-man (Dec 3, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I don't know about "travel[ing] through the same target"...
> 
> If we're facing each other, in a fairly square boxers stance, then a straight punch would be targeting the solar plexus. A hook would be targeting the ribs or liver. I like to think that I can generate a fair bit of power, for an Old Fart, but I don't think I could target the solar plexus with a hook.


Certainly you can't hook to the solar plexus if you are in front, but if you are off the line when a hook would go straight in. Beautiful!  A straight punch could take out the floating ribs. Same animal, just a different perspective.


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## Dinkydoo (Dec 3, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I don't know about "travel[ing] through the same target"...
> 
> If we're facing each other, in a fairly square boxers stance, then a straight punch would be targeting the solar plexus. A hook would be targeting the ribs or liver. I like to think that I can generate a fair bit of power, for an Old Fart, but I don't think I could target the solar plexus with a hook.


Sorry, that was poorly worded. The trajectory takes the strike through your centre line. The target isnt necessarily the same. Anyway, I'm getting a bit muddled because not all my strikes go through my centre - my fault for posting 'on the go' earlier before going for a run - I sometimes fight side on. I think i know what we're talking about now.



drop bear said:


> the idea is that mechanically you loose power because you are punching at an angle.
> 
> it is no longer 90 degrees from the body.
> 
> you could do it. But you would have to angle off.



Ah, that makes sense. Not as powerful, but potentially an ackward little strike that might catch someone out. I do something similar with a jab when circling if my opponent lets me. I'll slide to more side on stance so my body changes angle as I strike and I still get a bit of zing from it.


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## Danny T (Dec 3, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> When I was first taught the reverse punch, I was taught to throw it center, another words, to aim towards the center of the body. Then, at this other dojo I was taught to not center the reverse punch but rather to throw it straight forward because you get more power that way due to leverage. The tradeoff is its not as accurate against an opponent who would be standing directly in front and thus might require a step to the side in order to hit the center of the opponent's body. Personally I think both methods have their advantages and disadvantages and I think its easier to transition from a center punch to a forward punch than from a forward punch to a center punch.


There is the form, there is the fundamentals of the punch, there is the drilling of the punch at stationary target for practice and there is the actually application of the punch vs a live moving opponent. The target will change as does the range and the actually movement will have to be adjusted as such.


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## PhotonGuy (Dec 4, 2014)

Another thing I was taught about properly throwing the reverse punch, or any striking technique for that matter, is that upon impact you want your hand to be as hard as a rock but the rest of your body loose and relaxed.


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## punisher73 (Dec 4, 2014)

K-man said:


> I think you are confusing kihon with the practical application. In kihon the instructor could have your arm in either position without it being 'wrong' in either. In kihon I would teach it straight out from the shoulder, not to the centre, but that is just me. In application you will punch to wherever the target is. If your opponent is directly in front of you you would position your body, as *ballen* pointed out above, to deliver the strike with maximum power.



Not always, it is also a difference in kihon.  Some styles throw that punch from the hip/chest chamber to the solar plexus/sternum area as their basic punch.  Other styles will throw that same punch from the hip/chest chamber and it comes straight out from the shoulder and target the pressure point just under the pectoral muscle with their basic punch (both visualizations in kihon assume the "target" is your mirror image squared up to you). I have even seen certain lineages in the same style that vary on this topic.

I have also seen drills to "prove" that their method is "superior".  The "punching into centerline method" will say to get yourself into pushup position with arms extended.  Now remove one arm from the ground and your body can't support itself, but if you put the hand in line with your centerline, you can balance and hold yourself up.  The other school which says to punch straight out, so your extended arm/shoulder are at 90 degrees to each other, will say that when you push a heavy object like a car, you put your hands in line with our armpit and push straight out it is the strongest position.

This is where differences in stances come into play with certain styles and how they are used.  Because, while you can hold yourself in the pushup position in the centerline method and not the other method with your feet together in a standard pushup, if you change your feet and plant one foot out to the side to offset the weight, you can hold yourself in the pushup position with your arm straight out and squared to your shoulder like you do with a one arm pushup.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 5, 2014)

punisher73 said:


> Not always, it is also a difference in kihon.  Some styles throw that punch from the hip/chest chamber to the solar plexus/sternum area as their basic punch.  Other styles will throw that same punch from the hip/chest chamber and it comes straight out from the shoulder and target the pressure point just under the pectoral muscle with their basic punch (both visualizations in kihon assume the "target" is your mirror image squared up to you). I have even seen certain lineages in the same style that vary on this topic.
> 
> I have also seen drills to "prove" that their method is "superior".  The "punching into centerline method" will say to get yourself into pushup position with arms extended.  Now remove one arm from the ground and your body can't support itself, but if you put the hand in line with your centerline, you can balance and hold yourself up.  The other school which says to punch straight out, so your extended arm/shoulder are at 90 degrees to each other, will say that when you push a heavy object like a car, you put your hands in line with our armpit and push straight out it is the strongest position.
> 
> This is where differences in stances come into play with certain styles and how they are used.  Because, while you can hold yourself in the pushup position in the centerline method and not the other method with your feet together in a standard pushup, if you change your feet and plant one foot out to the side to offset the weight, you can hold yourself in the pushup position with your arm straight out and squared to your shoulder like you do with a one arm pushup.


I think that when you want to keep your distance, you use center line, but when you are chest to chest, you had better consider your car story.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 5, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> Another thing I was taught about properly throwing the reverse punch, or any striking technique for that matter, is that upon impact you want your hand to be as hard as a rock but the rest of your body loose and relaxed.


I would consider sticking it with the heel, once in a while.


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## drop bear (Dec 5, 2014)

I would say loose and relaxed at the throw. Tense on impact.


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## PhotonGuy (Dec 5, 2014)

drop bear said:


> I would say loose and relaxed at the throw. Tense on impact.



Specifically you want your hand to be tense on impact but yes, its also important to stay loose on the throw. But if your hand isn't tight on impact that can lead to a bent wrist. I was having problems with that because I wasn't tightening my hand enough on impact so I would sometimes bend my wrist but I've been working on that. That is why you want your hand to be as hard as a rock when you land the punch. By keeping the rest of your body loose and your hand tense, you can generate tremendous power.


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## Buka (Dec 5, 2014)

Different styles have different ideas on a tense or relaxed fist on impact. Tadashi Yamishita used to do a demo where he smashed the hell out of a lot of stacks of wood, going from one to the next, lickety split. Then he would turn to the audience and open the fist he was breaking with.

A small bird, a Japanese White Eye, which weighs a few grams, would fly out of his hand up into the rafters.







I got a chance to spend a couple days with him in the nineties and asked him about it. He only uses a relaxed fist, fingers barely touching his palm, wrist straight of course. He would hit you in the chest and it felt like a hammer. A big hammer. I've been pretty much doing it that way since. So far, no problems.

Tight fist, loose fist, it's all good if you train properly, I guess.


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## PhotonGuy (Dec 5, 2014)

Buka said:


> Different styles have different ideas on a tense or relaxed fist on impact. Tadashi Yamishita used to do a demo where he smashed the hell out of a lot of stacks of wood, going from one to the next, lickety split. Then he would turn to the audience and open the fist he was breaking with.
> 
> A small bird, a Japanese White Eye, which weighs a few grams, would fly out of his hand up into the rafters.
> 
> ...



Wow that is amazing. It would take tremendous skill and ability to be able to do all that and hold a live bird at the same time although it is possible to tighten the hand without completely closing it. From my experience, my wrist can bend if I don't have a tight enough hand upon impact and for that reason I focus on making my hand as hard as possible at the point of impact and I also like to do finger strengthening exercises.


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 5, 2014)

Buka said:


> Different styles have different ideas on a tense or relaxed fist on impact. Tadashi Yamishita used to do a demo where he smashed the hell out of a lot of stacks of wood, going from one to the next, lickety split. Then he would turn to the audience and open the fist he was breaking with.
> 
> A small bird, a Japanese White Eye, which weighs a few grams, would fly out of his hand up into the rafters.
> 
> ...


Probably scared the crap out of the bird though.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 6, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> Wow that is amazing. It would take tremendous skill and ability to be able to do all that and hold a live bird at the same time although it is possible to tighten the hand without completely closing it. From my experience, my wrist can bend if I don't have a tight enough hand upon impact and for that reason I focus on making my hand as hard as possible at the point of impact and I also like to do finger strengthening exercises.


 
Tightening the hand without closing it is not really all that difficult. I do a break at demos. 16x4x2" patio brick. Straight punch with an egg in my hand. It impresses at demos, but honestly it's not all that difficult.


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## Buka (Dec 6, 2014)

With hands at your side - snap your hand into a fist as fast as you can. You'll see the wrist bend. (Same when the arm is held out in front of you). In times of surprise that call for immediate action (a punch) that bend has to be corrected before the punch hits. A fun exercise, that can be beneficial just because it acquaints the fighter with his wrist position in the fast clenching of his fist... is to stand hands at side and slowly form that fist without that wrist bend. It can be done quicker by tapping the fingertips against the heel of the hand...then morphing it into a fist. It's kind of fun/interesting and helps learn about that fist formation.
We do it a lot in down time. Standing in line for something, waiting, working a detail, whatever. Nobody will notice, it passes the time and re-enforces that straight wrist.
The wrist is also why I have my guys do pushups on knuckles. (not kids) If you're going to be doing them anyway, might as well work that straight wrist.

As Bruce Lee said, "There are no wrists in boxing."

DD - I've always liked that egg break. I've always been a sucker for good Karate demos. Plus, when done, you can make French toast.


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## kodora81 (Dec 12, 2014)

Is _that_ why my instructors make us do knuckle pushups? And here I simply thought it was to make us badass.


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