# Push-ups-punishment or exercise? both?



## Miles (Dec 18, 2005)

Does your dojang use push-ups as a form of punishment, or exercise, or do you not do them?  If exercise, do you vary the type of push-up you perform?

My KyoSa has 2 kids in the program and he routinely issues push-ups as punishment.  Me, not so many...I guess I am getting soft in my old age.

We also do push-ups at the end of class as a cool-down exercise.  One week we may do knuckle push-ups with our arms at shoulders' width, another week we may do push-ups with fingers forming a triangle, or what I call "turtle" pushups where you have your feet spread apart, you rock forward past your arms, and then return back to starting position (I think these may also be called "Hindu push-ups").  I never let kids do push-ups on their knuckles or fingertips.

Anyone else care to say what their dojang does?

Miles


----------



## Sam (Dec 18, 2005)

I don't do tkd, I do kenpo, but we do push-ups at the end of class sometimes, and in sparring class, when we do team fighting, the losing team often has to do pushups


----------



## Gemini (Dec 18, 2005)

We use push ups as a form of punishment, but oddly enough, also as part of the endurance testing for promotion tests. So, the more punishment you need, the more you'll be ready to test....*scratches head*


----------



## AdrenalineJunky (Dec 18, 2005)

Non-TKD perspective: I hate push-ups. I hate them beyond reason; thus, I do not do them. I can bench my own weight--no problem, but I cannot do push-ups to save my life. It's funny because we do a lot of crunches and leg-ups, v-ups, back-ups, and the guys I train with practically beg and plead to do push-ups, instead, lol. So, for some, it's punishment; for others, it's a god-send. Just a little perspective for you.


----------



## Aqua4ever (Dec 18, 2005)

We use them as both. Push-ups are punishments for being late, talking out of line, if you don't adress with respect, that sort of thing.
We also do them at the beginning and end of class fairly often as cooldown/warmups/fitness. Many variations, all the ones Miles mentioned
Aqua


----------



## Floating Egg (Dec 18, 2005)

If we drop a weapon in class we're instructed to perform a number of push-ups. Though my sensei instituted the policy, it's usually enforced in a lighthearted manner by way of peer pressure.

I do perform push-ups for exercise. Right now, my goal is to perform 500 push-ups per day. I'm currently just shy of 350, in combinations of close-grip, tricep, and Hindu push-ups. I've been taking a break from handstand push-ups because of some minor shoulder problems.

I'm rather fond of the Hindu push-up. I find that there is less wear and tear, and it gives my back and legs a great stretch. 

The Hindu push-up


----------



## Gemini (Dec 18, 2005)

Yep. Those are ours, but I'd never heard them called that. Course, now that I think about it, I've never heard them called anything. Hindu's sound good.


----------



## Floating Egg (Dec 18, 2005)

I've also heard them referred to as the Japanese, Judo, Furey (Matt Furey), and Tiger push-ups.


----------



## FearlessFreep (Dec 18, 2005)

I've heard them called "dive bombers"

In both classes I've been in a see pushups occasionally used for punishment, but as pointed out, the more you do the stronger you get so it's a punishment with a postive outcome


----------



## mj_lover (Dec 18, 2005)

we use them as a punishment, witht he reasoning to help regain focus, as it puts you in a different senario for a bit.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Dec 18, 2005)

Being a Korean martial art would not squats or something to do with legs be a better punishment


----------



## Navarre (Dec 18, 2005)

My educational teaching theory says that one should not take an activity desired for the student's development and use it as a form of punishment. I always hated it in gym class when the teacher would take the slowest student and force them to run more as punishment for being slow. 

It didn't make any sense. It only created a student who hated running and served as a power trip for the teacher.

Contrary to this however, we use pushups both ways in class. We do them every class as exercise. We vary the type a lot to build different muscle groups and to maintain interest.

I've never found the use of pushups as punishment to produce a negative effect however. Perhaps this is because in gym class running is just running but in a dojo pushups are just another exercise. Thus I can change my perspective on them arbitrarily. 

I didn't join martial arts to do pushups. So, if I do them in a class as a training tool, that's perfectly fine. If I find myself doing them because I saw fit to chat with a student at an inappropriate time, then I deserve the pushups.


----------



## IcemanSK (Dec 18, 2005)

Floating Egg said:
			
		

> I've also heard them referred to as the Japanese, Judo, Furey (Matt Furey), and Tiger push-ups.


 
Let me add.... We used to call em, "Korean push-ups". Hindu push-ups is what I've heard most often, tho.


----------



## TigerWoman (Dec 18, 2005)

No, push-ups aren't given as punishment.  I've never seen any 13+ given any punishment, with exception below, but the kids are given jumping jacks or standing still with their eyes closed.

I guess we do the "Hindu" pushups to start off with as a white belt.  If the split is wider, most of the weight can be off the upper body though-a cheat.  Right now we do them right after warmup rising front and side kicks. 50 split pushups, then 25-35 regular.  Sometimes we do triangle pushups.  Sometimes we rotate our hand around.  Sometimes we do them with our toes on the bottom black part of "Bob".  Sometimes we, well some of us do, one arm pushups as well as the knuckle pushups.  Once, though, I think the master was punishing the black belts  (who-knows-why, probably just bad mood) so we all had to do knuckle pushups on pine boards with the under belts watching.  The hardest pushups we do is up on iron welded  T Bars with the hands around the top of the T.  He has a contest for that at our tournaments.  

Pushups are good. It helped my back strength. Its great for lifting those grocery bags into the house. People always get amazed how much I can haul.  But its not so great for appearance in clothes.

I could do 15 split pushups dubiously at white belt, since my feet were slipping out from under me at first.  It progressed, but I had to do alot of work on my own.  A few years ago at my 2nd dan test, I had to do 50 regular at the very end of the test.  Which proves anything is possible. TW


----------



## Marginal (Dec 18, 2005)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Being a Korean martial art would not squats or something to do with legs be a better punishment


 
Gotta do something with the arms too. There's plenty of leg conditioning as it is.


----------



## bignick (Dec 18, 2005)

Yes to both.

We do numerous variations on the standard pushup.  But, if you just hear..."Alright, let's do 30 pushups", it means on the knuckles by default.  We train on a hardwood floor and occasionally we'll take the class outside to the sidewalk and do some there.

As for "punishment".  Because of the way most martial arts classes are structured, the instructor needs to maintain control over the participants for safety's sake, especially children.  When people start goofing off or they are not focused on what they are doing, that's when someone get's hurt. Having someone do pushups is a lot more productive, in my opinion, then just standing off in the corner.  And by no means are pushups the sole means of discipline in our school, situps, crushers, wall sits, etc.  The possibilities are endless


----------



## bignick (Dec 18, 2005)

Floating Egg said:
			
		

> If we drop a weapon in class we're instructed to perform a number of push-ups. Though my sensei instituted the policy, it's usually enforced in a lighthearted manner by way of peer pressure.
> 
> I do perform push-ups for exercise. Right now, my goal is to perform 500 push-ups per day. I'm currently just shy of 350, in combinations of close-grip, tricep, and Hindu push-ups. I've been taking a break from handstand push-ups because of some minor shoulder problems.
> 
> ...



I think the second variation there looks more interesting....:uhyeah:


----------



## Navarre (Dec 18, 2005)

bignick said:
			
		

> I think the second variation there looks more interesting....:uhyeah:



The angle of approach shows a keen interest in making sure the technique is done properly. The face-first descent allows for an intimate examination of the environment while ensuring the remainder of the body touches at all the right places. 

From the expression on completion of the technique, it is clear that the person has achieved maximum satisfaction with this technique. I whole-heartedly approve.

However, in all fairness, I would prefer to work directly with the person to ensure proper technique. ... and by "person" I of course mean Katie Holmes.


----------



## Kenpodoc (Dec 19, 2005)

Oddly enough the kids I teach love doing push-ups. We do lot's of variations and they frequently request more push-ups. We also use push-ups when the kids get to full of themselves. Not as punishment but because when you are tired you tend to relax better and become more efficient. I stole this idea from the Systema guys and it works for me.

Jeff


----------



## Shirt Ripper (Dec 19, 2005)

I am not for the use of exercise as punishment, but then again, what is the alternative?  Force feed them Twinkies?  As a former fat kid I can tell you there would be few objections to said philosophy but the more commonly punished.


----------



## Fluffy (Dec 19, 2005)

I was brought up doing pushups as excersizes and a bit of dissipline.  We do knuckle push-ups, and in the 80's we would do them in the parking lot.  Later, I was in a Drum and Bugle Corp and we would do them as a treat when we would do a good set.  I got so sick of thoes...........someone would say; "hey, great job!  Let's do push-ups"!  It was all I could do not to give out a free TKD lesson, right there and then.


----------



## MJS (Dec 19, 2005)

Both.  They are done during the warmups.  If someone comes to class late, I usually had them do a few more than what I had the class do.  As far as punishment, there were times when I'd have the problem person do some, and then there were times when I'd have the problem person stand there while the rest of the class did them!  Kind of got the point across a bit more, considering the entire class suffered due to one persons fooling around.

Mike


----------



## Miles (Dec 19, 2005)

Navarre said:
			
		

> The angle of approach shows a keen interest in making sure the technique is done properly. The face-first descent allows for an intimate examination of the environment while ensuring the remainder of the body touches at all the right places.



Thanks to all who posted their dojang's practices.

I agree Navarre.  As a youngster, I skinned my nose several times due to the "face first" approach.  That will wake one up!

Miles


----------



## DuneViking (Jan 22, 2006)

Both, also time outs and other cals or techniques.


----------



## Faye (Jan 22, 2006)

We do it as part of the workout, usually after class. We also do it as punishment... even us adult, we play games during classes, , and whoever loses, will do like 5 pushups, or something like that, i don't mind it.


----------



## Slippery_Pete (Jan 22, 2006)

Alright...I admit it...I LOATHE PUSH-UPS...I happen to posses the skill for attaining many in a class period...as a form of punishment...don't ask me about this skill but I sure have it!  But, I do see the positive side for doing so said push-ups.

We are taught to perform push-ups on our knuckles.  This technique is not so bad.  It teaches you to strengthen your wrists by getting your radius bone in like with the pointer and middle finger knuckles...a good solid punch.  If you punch in this position you are less likely to injure your wrist.  It also makes your knuckles stronger so that when you do punch something, it doesn't hurt nearly as much.  So as much as I hate to do them, I will continue to do them.  Booooooo.


----------



## FearlessFreep (Jan 22, 2006)

I do knucke pushups by default.  I injured my handawhile back and the normal hand position for pushups was painful in my hand/wrist, but I could do knucle pushups.  So I switched to doing knuclke pushups all the time and stilldo them like that even thought my hand is fne now.  It has the added benefit of strengtheing my wrist and making me focus my alignment on my first two knuckles.  Also if done right it's a harder workout because since I'm elevated a bit, I have to dip deeper into my shoulders before I reach the bottom point and this requires/develops more strength to push up from that deeper point


----------



## TigerWoman (Jan 22, 2006)

I also injured my hand/wrist awhile back. Long while back, in my teens, we won't count the years.  But since all the bones in my wrist were broken, they never went back together quite right.  Before TKD, I wasn't able to shovel snow for sure long, and well, didn't iron.  Then we had monkey run, couldn't put my hand down, so I did it on my knuckles.  Eventually it went flat mostly on the floor with a lot of monkey runs and pushups.  I still have a hard time in yoga class when she says don't cup your hand as I still feel pain in it. But knuckle pushups no problem now.  I know what you mean FF about the deeper shoulder position it requires to get the chin on the floor then back up. Harder then those though are pushups with hands flat on the floor, elbows in, arms to the side, plank style (holding then up in cobra) pushups in yoga, two hours of it intermittently. TW


----------



## Laurentkd (Feb 7, 2007)

TigerWoman said:


> ron. Then we had monkey run, couldn't put my hand down, so I did it on my knuckles. Eventually it went flat mostly on the floor with a lot of monkey runs and pushups.  TW


 

I know this thread is kinda old, but I was curious... what is a monkey run??


----------



## Nomad (Feb 7, 2007)

Yes


----------



## dsuh86 (Feb 7, 2007)

I believe one of the main reasons why kids/adults hate pushups so much is because they don't know how to do it.  Proper technique in a pushup is a must.  If a student doesn't know how to do a proper pushup, it should not be punishment.  Instead I'd just have them run laps, squat thrusts, jumping jacks, ect.


----------



## IcemanSK (Feb 8, 2007)

I do push-ups for both punishment & exercise. If a student is late to class, they do push-ups for 2 reasons. 1) So it reminds them to be on time. 2) As a bit of a warm before they start stretching.

When I did my video pretest for 3rd Dan last month, I kept messing up a form. In front of the instructor from a sister school & his students, I gave myself push-ups! I didn't screw it up again.


----------



## TKDmel (Feb 10, 2007)

Years ago, when I was a blue belt, my son and daughter also attended TKD classes. My master at the time was more of a traditionalist but usually just a mere glance in the direction of any student, made them "tow the line". Sometimes, however, my son and another student, would get caught talking by our master, and they would spend the rest of the class in opposite corners of the dojang on their knuckles. No push-ups, just the knuckle push up position. This only happened twice, and they learned their lessons, no worse for wear.


----------



## dsuh86 (Feb 10, 2007)

TKDmel said:


> Years ago, when I was a blue belt, my son and daughter also attended TKD classes. My master at the time was more of a traditionalist but usually just a mere glance in the direction of any student, made them "tow the line". Sometimes, however, my son and another student, would get caught talking by our master, and they would spend the rest of the class in opposite corners of the dojang on their knuckles. No push-ups, just the knuckle push up position. This only happened twice, and they learned their lessons, no worse for wear.



yep.  that punishment works great.  If they get out of position, yell or hit them.  I remember once when my old master had the whole team in pushup position for 10 minutes.  I couldn't move my arms after that.


----------



## wayofhandandfoot (Feb 11, 2007)

Hindu/Korean, triangle, slow etc. are good for exercise. 
But for disciplinary reasons or pushisment pushup position is what we use.


----------



## allpet (Feb 12, 2007)

If you really get on my nerve I don't use push ups to punish them. I make them run some/alot of laps.

Everybody can run. If they run slow it will take more time before they get back to the training. If they run fast the get back to training sooner but they are more tired.

It's their choice if they want to spend the class running or kicking.


----------



## K31 (Feb 12, 2007)

We get push-ups as a warm up.

We get push-ups before we get to have a break to get water.

We have push-ups as punishment and then everybody, including the offending parties, do push-ups.

We even have a specified number we have to do in a belt test for advancement.

Gee, now that I think about it, a guy came in to the dojang last week to get water for his radiator. I wonder if they made him do push-ups?


----------



## Odin (Feb 12, 2007)

I love push-ups, to be honest even when i get them out of punishment i dont mind,  I can do them all night long!


----------



## bookworm_cn317 (Feb 12, 2007)

Where I train, it's both. Trust me, when you have do to push-ups for not kihapping--it's a punishment!


----------



## KeeblerElf (Feb 12, 2007)

Where we train, push ups are used for both reasons. Pushups are given at the beginning of class as a warm up, and then we do them again if we don't kiai loud enough (or at all) after one warning. We usually don't forget for the rest of the class. When they are used as punishment, we never do more than five to ten. Just enough to remind us what we should be doing!


----------



## hong kong fooey (Feb 13, 2007)

im my class we do 25 as a warm up but one time I forgot my belt yeah I had to do 100 my arms felt like rubber when I was done but I have not forgot my belt since


----------



## Shaderon (Feb 15, 2007)

We don't get punishments, we just get a stern word and that works well enough for us, we're a good lot.  The kids get a game of dodgeball at the end of the lesson if they've behaved themselves and that seems to work for them too because I've never not seen them playing when I've turned up early for class.    My instructor seems to be more a "carrot" person than a stick person, but his voice is powerful and just one stern word gets immediate attention.

We do push ups as part of our warm up.


----------



## Gufbal1982 (Feb 20, 2007)

I didn't hand out pushups as a punishment unless it was severe...then it was fingertip push-ups.  You don't want kids to hate doing pushups.  By giving them it as a punishment, they will never want to do them just for exercise purposes.  I gave push-ups as warm ups for the most part...unless it was a test.  Then it was for a whole different reason.


----------



## Just4Kicks (Mar 2, 2007)

We do them as training and exercise not so much for punishment. Despite my dislike for them they are good for your muscle strength.

But some people can do pushups forever but can't do other exercises, so punishment pushups aren't so effective with them. A tad unfair me thinks.


----------

