# Ashida Kim and the rest of the "Frauds"



## Master of Blades

I'm interested into how it all came about that Ashida Kim and the rest of those people came to be known as "Frauds"? I mean did some random person just go that they were frauds or did they all do something etc to be known as this? 

I mean for some like Ashida Kim it is obvious just from looking at the website..... 

But for others like Counte Dante....He just chatted so much crap that eventually he got caught....

But how about the rest of them......? How did they become known as frauds :asian:


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## Withered Soul

I'm curious too. I never heard of Ashida Kim before I joined this forum. But just looking at his website just made it too obvious.


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## arnisador

Ashida Kim published a number of Ninja books. They are widely considered to be, uh, poorly researched. Search here for more info.

I believe there is a Count Dante--Ashida Kim connection, isn't there?


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## marshallbd

arnisador said:
			
		

> Ashida Kim published a number of Ninja books. They are widely considered to be, uh, poorly researched. Search here for more info.
> 
> I believe there is a Count Dante--Ashida Kim connection, isn't there?


isn't count dante a band with a goofy website

http://www.count-dante.com/bdfs.html ? :asian:


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## Chicago Green Dragon

Nah he is count chocula's cousin 

But seriously. I am a chicagoan and i am a bit familiar with the likes of count dante. If you ever get a chance there is a 2 part article about him in an old issue of black belt. I have both issues around the house a bit.

There is even a blurb on line about the big fight that happend

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1970/aug70/bbt.html

*CHICAGO KARATE SCANDALIZED BY INTER-SCHOOL RIVALRIES  * 


CHICAGO, Illinois - In what was described as a "business feud" between two rival martial arts schools, The Black Cobra Hall of Kung Fu Kempo and The House of Dante, one man was stabbed to death and another suffered severe eye injuries. 
 Instructors and students at the Black Cobra Hall told police they were invaded by six men, led by John Keehan, who is also known as "Count Dante." Just prior to the incident, a phone call was received at the Black Cobra Hall in which the callers allegedly stated, "A bunch of guys are on their way to bust your joint up." 
 After hearing a knock at the door, a student opened it and Keehan entered with his men, produced a deputy sheriff's badge and was said to have stated, "We're from the sheriffs police. You're all under arrest." 
 Jose Gonzales, an instructor at the Black Cobra Hall which is owned by Russell Berkman, had been standing near the door when the men entered. He said that it was Keehan who hit him "with something" that very nearly took out his right eye. Gonzales underwent surgery at Belmont Community Hospital for a laceration of his right eye. His condition is described as "fair." 
 Jerome Greenwald, the man charged with the murder of James R. Koncevic, told police that the invaders carried their own weapons. He was quoted by police as saying that Koncevic was punching him during the free-for-all that ensued. Greenwald said he grabbed a knife (one of the several weapons which lined the wall of the school) and plunged it into Koncevic's abdomen. 
 As soon as the melee started, someone had called the police and they arrived on the scene to find Koncevic lying dead in a doorway and captured the invaders as they were running away. 
 Jerome M. Greenwald has been charged with murder and was granted bond of $2,500 by judge John F. Hechinger. Greenwald was released on payment of $250, or 10 percent of the total bond. judge Hechinger said he ordered the low bond because circumstances indicated that Greenwald probably acted in self-defense. 
 Bond was set at $15,000 for John Keehan who was charged with aggravated battery, impersonating a police officer and criminal damage to property. Keehan, who said he had recently changed his name legally to Count Dante, had previously been placed on a two year probation in 1965 after he was convicted of the attempted arson of another karate school, the Chicago Judo and Karate Center, Inc. 
 Also arrested and charged with disorderly conduct were Russell Berkman, Patrick Garrison and Gary Bennett. 

Just thought you guys might like some interesting reading
That is a bit of history of count Dante 

The article that was a two parter was published in a few other issues of black belt mag.

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian: 



			
				marshallbd said:
			
		

> isn't count dante a band with a goofy website
> 
> http://www.count-dante.com/bdfs.html ? :asian:


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## shaolinchi

hey that sounds a lot like what happened in my town.  This guy was running his mouth about how great of a martial artist he was...He start bad mouthing every other school in town, finally his own students got fed up and his very own NEPHEWS kicked the crap out of him and trashed the studio


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## Andrew Green

Counte Dante talked a lot of crap, but he also stepped up to the plate to back it up.

Frauds come up because so many wannabe martial artists believe titles and ranks are more important then actually being able to step onto the mats and do something productive. 

Self proclaimed soke's, grandmasters, system inheritors, etc.  All those things sound impressive to the unknowing consumer, expecially when promised something too deadly for competition in no rules fights...

Simple solution, no more ranks / titles beyond "The guy that runs class" and everyone spars everyone else (instructors included)


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## shiro

Counte dante was Ashida Kim Instructor.
I use to talk to him and he was nice then one day He didn't like something I said and He flipped called me all these names. I think He has major issues.
Good Day


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## OULobo

shiro said:
			
		

> Counte dante was Ashida Kim Instructor.
> I use to talk to him and he was nice then one day He didn't like something I said and He flipped called me all these names. I think He has major issues.
> Good Day



Are you talking about Kim or Dante? Dante has been dead for years. From what I gather, the guy was a bad tempered brawler with mediocre skill that used to advertise in comics, talk a ton of crap and cut hair. I kinda envision him as a small italian version of Sho-Nuff. Funny stuff.


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## The Kai

Actually my teacher's teacher met counte dante.  Said crazy man, has his martial arts down.  So whatever else about ole'count dante he could fight!  He was a big advocate of modernized training and reality training.
Just my2cents


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## Enson

never heard of "the counte" beside references to dracula! hee hee! can anyone give some references to him. internet please... i don't want to buy a book or anything.

peace


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## OULobo

Here's some talk here on MT:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7770

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=708

Here are his comic ads:
http://www.steveconley.com/pages/ad11.htm

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dante
http://www.countdante.com/countdante.html


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## Chicago Green Dragon

"From page 245 of the book:  ' The Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia:
Tradition, History, Pioneers .'  Taken without permission.

It was around 1961 that John Keehan, alias "Count Dante," began teaching
karate in the midwest from his base dojo in Chicago, IL.  Keehan joined the
USKA in 1961, at age 22, and was instrumental in helping Trias firmly
entrench the USKA in the midwest, the association's stongest territory.  He
taught numerous students all the way to black belt, who opened their own
schools and turned out respected students.  

On the night of April 23, 1970, he took part in the infamous "dojo war" that
ended in the brutal stabbing death of his friend and student, Jim Koncevic,
at the Green Dragon's Black Cobra training hall in Chicago.  The tragedy
left a profound mark on Keehan until his death from bleeding ulcers in 1975.
Counte Dante was one of the most controversial karate instructors in the
U.S.." taken from a submittion on the web.

There are a few black belt magazine articles on him that are around too.
I have a few at home but i cant think of the dates off hand.
I want to say Jan and Feb of 1975, it was a two part series article on the man. 

Hope this helps.


Chicago Green Dragon
         :asian:


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## Enson

so he wasn't a fraud then? weird, that i have never heard of this guy before.


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## Elizium

Dante is now passed into the realms of myth, even though he died nearly 30 years ago.  The Thing about Dante is the reputation that he got when he was around and after.


Kim, on the other hand, is widely known for his BS.  All his students are sad teens that really do believe that ninj3rs can fly, tranport themselves over large distances by telepathy (see Beverly Hills Ninja for an example).  Kim even placed a death sentence on his ***** list to get someone killed for a few thousand dollars.  By Monday afternoon it was removed.  The thing about Kim compared to Dante as said was that Dante could fight.  

Kim talks BS for most of the time and has very bad issues with anyone that comes against him.  Look through MT in a search on Kim being punked out.  It is funny to read.


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## Cthulhu

I believe Ashida Kim's real name is Chris Hunter.

Cthulhu


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## Elizium

Cthulhu said:
			
		

> I believe Ashida Kim's real name is Chris Hunter.
> 
> Cthulhu


We know.  Plus he is alleged to live in a tent in his Brothers back yard, ride a donkey to the dojo and is financially bankrupt.  Yet through all of this, he manages to have a dojo run as a business, a website that generates money as well as place hits to kill people for $25,000.

Go figure.


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## sifu nick

I never heard of this Ashida Kim clown until reading the posts on here. Has anyone hear actually or should I say unfortunately ever train with his Mcninja temple? I'd love to hear of the super ninja powers he teaches.


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## Silat Student

I'd never heard of Kim until tooling around on this forum a bit, it's guys like him that give us Floridians a bad name.


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## Chicago Green Dragon

shiro said:
			
		

> Counte dante was Ashida Kim Instructor.
> I use to talk to him and he was nice then one day He didn't like something I said and He flipped called me all these names. I think He has major issues.
> Good Day



I had never heard that one. Interesting......
I have a friend that was with the black dragon society when the big fight happend here. He never spoke back about Dante or his abilities. I have never met the man even though im a born and raised chicagoan.

As for Ashida Kim I rem him from long long ago when his books on Ninja things came out.............

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian:


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## AaronLucia

What a way to live...or die i should say.


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## Chicago Green Dragon

AaronLucia said:
			
		

> What a way to live...or die i should say.



I guess you could say live by the sword. Die by the sword.

Chicago Green Dragon

 :asian:


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