# Branches of Aikido



## tshadowchaser

How many branches of Aikido are there today and what are the major diffrences in them.
I know most people think Aikido people try never to hurt anyone but it was taught as a much more violent way in the begining.
Shadow


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## Rubber Ducky

I think that the "main" branches are:

- Aikikai;
- Yoshinkan;
- Tomiki;
- Ki Society;
- Iwama;
- and others, many others I'm sure.

Aikikai is also "Hombu style", or the style that O Sensei's family has maintained control of.  Aikikai is also a political body that maintains rank and certifies rank for other associations etc.  Kind of an umbrella.  However, the Hombu dojo does publish a curricula and the current Doshu - Ueshiba Moriteru (O Sensei's grandson) - is the head of this style and maintains its technical direction (at least in Japan).

Yoshinkan is, in some ways, a more "combative" style.  I think, and I may be wrong, that it and Iwama share some similarities.  I could look up more about it on the web, but I'm lazy.

Tomiki is a style of Aikido started by Tomiki Kenji.  He was both a high ranking Judoka and Aikidoka.  It is differentiated from other Aikido styles primarily in the fact that it has both kata and competition.

Ki Society was started by Tohei Koichi.  I don't know much about it other than it is rumoured to be very soft (please note that I don't mean to imply ineffective).  I've seen some bad demos of it online, but I haven't experienced it in person.


Iwama style is the style practiced by Saito Sensei at Iwama - the shrine set up at O Sensei's home - in Japan.  Supposedly a more Aiki-Budo style of Aikido.  Small, tight circles and hard throws etc.  A more "hard" style of Aikido from an early stage of Aikido's development.

There is also Shodokan Aikido, which is an offshoot of Yoshinkan I believe.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, and look some of these styles up on the web.  There's lots of info available.

Pierre


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## Cthulhu

I seem to remember a branch of aikido that was geared specifically towards law enforcement officers.  Am I mistaken?

Cthulhu


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## kimura

The style you are thinking of is Yoshinkan Aikido...

Tokyo police train this and/or Kendo

 

Kimura...


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## Cthulhu

Thanks, kimura.  I thought it was Yoshinkan, but wasn't terribly certain.  Could Yoshinkan be considered more aikijutsu than aikido?

Cthulhu


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## KumaSan

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Could Yoshinkan be considered more aikijutsu than aikido?
> *



I had heard this also and was somewhat curious. Unfortunately, I've never met anyone who studied that syle


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## Mao

There are various styles of aikido. It all came from, however, the same person. Many of the off shoots came after his death. Sounds a bit like many other styles. I believe that the biggest glaring difference between "do" and "jutsu" is mostly philisophical.  It is the difference between satsu jinken and katsu jinken. One leads to destruction and the other to the possibility of a new beginning. So then, "do" leads to the possibility of a new beginning and "jutsu" often to destruction. In one you would break the arm, in the other you would not. I have heard that it all used to be 99% atemi. Obviously that has since changed.


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## Rubber Ducky

> _Originally posted by Mao _
> *I have heard that it all used to be 99% atemi. Obviously that has since changed. *



Mao, O Sensei said that Aikido is 99% atemi and I think it still applies.

If you examine the techniques as performed, many of them will not work without atemi and many of them provide openings for atemi.  Still more of them have atemi at their core, but uke's protective action turns an elbow (for example) into a throw.

My instructor says "There is *always* atemi", and then  demonstrates.  

I think that atemi is one of those "left as an excercise for the reader" type of things.  Is it an oversight?  I don't know, but there's lots already in Aikido so I suspect not.   One theory that I have (completely unsubstantiated of course) is that when O Sensei started teaching Aikido it was assumed that the students would know how to do the punch/kick thing considering they were all students of other arts first.  So he didn't bother to re-teach it in Aikido, instead concentrating on the things they *didn't* know how to do, and thus it stuck.

Pierre


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## Mao

I agree with you. You are right that there is always atemi. And I teach it this way. What I meant to say is that so often nowdays many instructors do not. By and large, many aikidoka do not use atemi in their daily practice. Perhaps they are concentrating on, as you say, what they do not know. It has been my experience, however, that many people with whom I have trained couldn't punch or kick to save their hides!


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## Jay Bell

> Could Yoshinkan be considered more aikijutsu than aikido?



I'd say no on that one.  The closest to Daito ryu seems to be Jiyushinkai Aiki-Budo, from my visual understanding.  I guess Kondo sensei, Soke Daire of Daito ryu, had wonderful things to say about them when watching their footage.

I study at the Jiyushinkan.  Not Aiki-budo but Shindo Muso ryu.  I've sat and watched their Aiki-budo classes....they are truly great Aikidoka.


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## Rubber Ducky

Ok, I understand you now 

I agree, most Aikidoka (myself included) aren't very good punch/kick guys.  I think the original deshi were, however, at least decent at it.

It's something I'm working on.

That and the knife thing...

Pierre


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *Could Yoshinkan be considered more aikijutsu than aikido?*



Is there a distinction between aikijutsu and jujutsu? I have always thought of the former as a special cse of the latter. Is there a reason you used _aikijutsu_ here rather than the presumably more general _jujutsu_?


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## Rubber Ducky

arnisador:

I think Cthulu probably just mis-spelled aiki ju jutsu.

That is, aiki ju jutsu is a form of ju jutsu - it just contains techniques that use "aiki" or "harmony" (I think).  Daito ryu is an example (the only one?)

Pierre


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## old_sempai

There is an Aikido style known as Nihon Goshin Aikido that is not an off-shoot of Uyeshiba or any of his students.  It was founded in 1946 on the Island of Hokkaido by Morita Shoda who received a teaching license from either Kotaro Yoshida or Takeda Sokaku in 1925.  It was brought to the United States in 1963 and currently has approximately 25 dojo's and about 5000 practictioners.  It's generally not acknowledged by the O'Sensei schools [so much for Universal Harmony].:asian:


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## Yari

> _Originally posted by old_sempai _
> 
> *There is an Aikido style known as Nihon Goshin Aikido that is not an off-shoot of Uyeshiba or any of his students.  It was founded in 1946 on the Island of Hokkaido by Morita Shoda who received a teaching license from either Kotaro Yoshida or Takeda Sokaku in 1925.  It was brought to the United States in 1963 and currently has approximately 25 dojo's and about 5000 practictioners.  It's generally not acknowledged by the O'Sensei schools [so much for Universal Harmony].:asian: *



Do you have any more info. about this style?


/Yari


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## old_sempai

:asian:

Founded by Morita Shodo, who lived in Hokkaido Japan.  It is a 5 belt system, that starts with the beginner.  The actual student belt levels are yellow, blue, green, purple, brown and black with the student learning 50 "classical" techniques divided across these 5 student grades.  The art also teaches blocks, kicks, punching and chops along with falls and rolls, first aid and a series of exercises called Ki projection.  It was introduced into the United States in 1962 by Richard Bowe, who had been stationed in Hokkaido, Japan.  It traces its lineage back to Takeda Sokaku and the art of Daito Ryu.

Hope this answers most questions.

:asian:


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## Jas

Nihon Goshin Aikido is a unique and versatile combination of the most effective techniques from other established Martial Art forms. By utilizing striking techniques from Karate, throwing techniques from Judo, joint locking techniques from Jujitsu and a variety of techniques from Bo Jitsu and Yawara, Nihon Goshin Aikido presents a Martial Art that is extremely efficient in realistic self defence situations. As with other forms of Aikido, Nihon Goshin style uses the energy of the opponent by redirecting the attack in a circular motion and putting Uke(person being thrown) into a joint locking technique or submission hold.


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Jas _
> 
> *By utilizing striking techniques from Karate, throwing techniques from Judo, joint locking techniques from Jujitsu and a variety of techniques from Bo Jitsu and Yawara*



Where is the Aikido in it?

I assume you use Yawara in the sense of the short stick, not the jujutsu-like martial art?


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## Jay Bell

> By utilizing striking techniques from Karate, throwing techniques from Judo, joint locking techniques from Jujitsu and a variety of techniques from Bo Jitsu and Yawara



Interesting...I found this about the school:



> Founded by Shodo Morita. He had a black belt in numerous arts and took what he considered to be the best techniques from each of Judo, Karate, Jujitsu, Bo-Jitsu, Yawara, Aiki-Jujitsu and other less known, but equally dynamic styles of combat self-defense, to form a complete self-defense system. These techniques included strikes, throws, joint locks, nerve pressure points and weapons. Although records are incomplete, it is most probable that Master Morita trained with Yoshiro Kotaro. He was secretary Daito-Ryu AikiJujitsu under Sokaku Takeda. Master Morita died in 1962 and was succeeded by his stepson, Tominosuke Nara. Master Nara closed the main dojo in Chitose, Japan in 1975 and continued to teach privately. Master Richard A. Bowe trained with Master Morita in Japan and introduced the art to the United States in 1962, He is the U.S. Director of the art and has been recognized as a Martial Arts Pioneer in the Northeast. Sensei Robert MacEwen, Jr. received his Shodan, Ni Dan, and San Dan by Master Bowe.



I'm interested in how Morita san could have claimed lineage back to Takeda...if the above is true.  There wasn't a Marita Shodo that received Kyoju Dairi or Menkyo Kaiden as far as I'm aware within the Daito ryu....so I read on and found this:  



> The origins of Nihon Goshin Aikido can be traced to Daito ryu Aikijitsu whose greatest proponent was Sokaku Takeda.
> 
> Master Shodo Morita founded the art of Nihon Goshin Aikido. He was trained by Yoshiro Kitaro, an instructor of Daito ryu Aikijitsu. Master Kitaro also trained in his family system of self-defense. In addition to training in Daito ryu, Master Morita trained in Judo, Yoshikan Aikido, Kobudo (weapons), Karate, and the esoteric arts. After Master Morita mastered these arts he realized that although they were highly effective, no single style was complete. Each art focused on a separate element of self-defense: The karate arts focused on striking. The judo arts focused on throwing. The jujitsu arts focused on joint locks. Master Morita incorporated principles and techniques of each system into a new system called Nihon Goshin Aikido. It is significant to note that he did not merely choose the best techniques from each system, but a variety of techniques, recognizing that what works well for one person may not be effective for a second person due to height differences. Nihon Goshin Aikido is a highly effective form of martial arts due to its variety of principles.



This is somewhat interesting.  There was not a "Yoshiro Kitaro" of the Daito ryu.  Yet, there was Kotaro Yoshida who passed on in 1964 (as the above explained).  

The above mentioned incomplete records.  Out of all of the budo schools I've ever heard of, incomplete records and Daito ryu do not go together.  Takeda had student ledgers and attendance sheets for *everyone* that he ever taught...even for seminars.  I'm sure this tradition would be handed down, especially since Yoshida Kotaro sensei was so prominant within the Daito ryu. 

I'm still pretty curious as why the art is called "Aikido" at all.  



> It's generally not acknowledged by the O'Sensei schools



I can see why..

Uh oh...I just checked out the photos page.  During the clip of "Spinning Hip Throw" it said "Morita-ha Daito ryu".  The pile just gets deeper...


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## old_sempai

:soapbox: 

Well, for those that are doubters youre invited to visit the website Aikidoinc, and if you cant figure out the prefix and suffix let me know.  If you look carefully at the photos of Mr. Bowe, hes easy to recognize since hes the only tenki teki amerikaijin in the pictures.  Now look beyond Mr Bowe at the other students and take careful notice of their embroidered Kanji characters they have on their Gi, for those that dont possess a Nelsons Dictionary Ill translates.  It reads: Goshin Aikido,.  And Mr Bowe added the prefix Nihon when he opened the first Aikido school in 1962 in North Jersey.
Whether Morita studied under Takeda or Kotaro is a small matter.  

However, Im not surprised by the condescending comments since Uyeshiba adherents would have us believe that it is they that are the true possessors of the moral high ground., and that only they possess the true ability to harness Ki.  Unfortunately, these same individuals have no clue regarding the significance of Uyeshibas belonging to the Kendo Club at Keio University in the 1920s & 30s, or of Keio University itself, nor that he was rabidly Xenophobic.  Nor the significance of his membership in the Black Dragon Society, or what the Omoto sect was truly about, or the truth behind the concepts of Kotodama, or Kokutai for that matter.  As for Ki/Chi thats another PC fairly tale they love to tell as well.  These same adherents would have us believe that their Way of Harmony is not unlike the ancient name of Japan Dai Wah -Great Harmony.  But, fail to understand that Ai is actually a contraction of the verb Awaso meaning to unite, nothing more.  And that until the Pacific War came to an end that the only people being taught by Uyeshiba were high ranking military and political leaders, and these same individuals were also responsible for prolonging the war.  And no they were not thwarting the will of the Emperor, far from it, they were following his dictates.  But, then Im digressing. 

I'll close for now, and climb down thereby providing those that have nothing better to do than throw stones with a more readily available target for their feeble little arms

Regards


:asian: :asian:


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## Jay Bell

Hi old sempai,

Whether or not the training is worth-while or what information is passed down is irrelevant...to me anyway.

If a tradition claims links to something of substance and credibility, it seems like they are grabbing for acceptance (if of course it's not true).  It's not throwing stones at all.  If a group of people claim a link to someone of Japanese budo fame, they should have enough to back up their claims when called on.

Regards,

Jay


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## old_sempai

:asian: 

A careful look at the photos, obviously taken in a Japanese Dojo in the late 50's to early 60's when Mr Bowe was a very young man show the patches reading "Goshin Aikido."  As for Kotaro being a teacher of Morita versus Takeda there are a number of things to ponder.  

Morita was a farmer living on the island of Hokaido, [Japan's equivalent of a frontier area] and Takeda did teach his art to the police in Sapporo.  And is also known as having traveled at taught throughout Japan.  

Kotaro worked as an editor for a newpaper [the name eludes me for the moment] in Sendai, which is more than a stone's throw from Sapporo, and the rail tunnel between Honshu and Hokkaido was not even a thought in anyone's mind in 1925.

Finally, Uyeshiba is also known to have met Takeda while living in Hokkaido and studied under him around the year 1915.

So one can see the possibility of legitimate links existing for Morita Shodo.

Further, Mr Bowe held the rank of Shodan in Juijutsu long before he went into the Army and his profession since the 1960's has been that of an attorney.  Therefore, it's inconceivable that he would fabricate a bogus link for the purpose of starting a new style of Aikido when the Uyeshiba style had been in existence since 1942.  

Finally, there have been statements made that Morita had at one time studied Yoshikan.  And in this regard let me offer the following.  Approximately 6 years ago I forwarded an unpublished Genealogy of Aikido and Daito Ryu [listing Nihon Goshin Aikido in the charts] to Obata Toshoshiro, the last Uchi deshi to Shioda Gozo, for review.  He later called me at home to thank me for the work.  And a year later, upon meeting him in Canada at a Shinkendo seminar, he publically acknowledged this work along with my years of study in Nihon Goshin to a large group of other Aikido students also in attendance representing sundry forms of Uyeshiba Aikido.

:asian: :asian:


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## old_sempai

:asian: 

In ancient Japan the method of grading and promotion for each Ryu was not always the same.  Even in those ryu located within the same prefecture.  Some used three levels for grading while others used five.  Further, the practise of testing and promoting was not based on any seniority.  Just as the passing on of the title of Daimyo, or that of appointing the oldest son as primary heir were not always followed.  Therefore, its apparent that one could be awarded the rank of Okuden or even Kaiden without receiving a Menkyo Kaiden.  But, not receiving this award would not diminish their knowledge, and in many cases a student would sometimes establish a ryu, title the art with a slightly different monicker and teach it all the same.  Uyeshiba did this in the 1930's and it has been inferred that he and Takeda may have had some differences because of Uyeshiba's actions.  

In another example of ranking and awarding Densho Yoshida Yoshida Kotaro is acknowledged as having worked as a secretary for Takeda Sokaku.  However, he is also reported as having been accomplished in the art of Yanagi ryu [The willow arts of the Satsuma Clan], who by the way were bitter enemies of the Aizu and Takeda Clan during the Bakumatsu Wars that preceeded the Meiji Restoration.  Yet, despite being trained in the arts of Daito Ryu, and being in position overseeing who would receive a Menkyo Kaiden, other records show that Yoshida Kotaro never taught or awarded any ranking to his only son,  Yoshida Kenji, who passed on the arts of Yanagi ryu to Don Angier.

Further, another example of the politics involved in the arts within Japan itself occurred within the Daito organization and it went through a period of upheaval shortly after the death of Takeda Sokaku's son Takeda Tokimune.  

Regards

:asian: :asian:


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## old_sempai

:asian:

For the naysayers and cynics:

:soapbox:

On page 70 of the book, "A Beginner's Guide to Aikido" by L Reynosa & J Billingiere [JAB Enterprizes, R & B Publishing Company, Ventura, California, 2nd Edition, 1st Printing - 1988] is a "Family Tree" listing for  Aikijutsu and Aikido Arts.  Nihon Goshin Aikido is identified as a "Derivative Traditional" of the art of Aikijutsu originally taught by Takeda Sogaku.

Mr Reynosa, undertook the study of Aikido in 1974, when the art of NGA consisted of approximately 5 schools all located within 100 miles of New York City.  

Mr. Reynosa a former student of Nobuo Iseri Sensei, was awarded Shodan by Takahasi Sensei.  In 1983 he became a student of Steven Seagal,  Sensei, in 1983, and remains one today, and also operates the Makoto Dojo, in Ventura California.  Mr. Billingiere's Aikido profile closely parallels that of Mr. Reynosa, although he first began his studies in Aikido in 1983 under Reynosa Sensei. 

OK - OK I'm done & off the :soapbox: !

 :asian: :asian:


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## tmanifold

A couple of things to ponder:

1 the term Aikido does not mean it has to be affliated with the Hombu Dojo. Aikido is simple a description "Meaning the way of Universal energy" (or some other translation but the point stands). Just like judo, while it is most famous as the style of Jigiro kano, he had to ad Kodokan to it because of previous arts be the name of Judo.

2. Takeda was an odd man who was often in trouble with the law and would have to leave various parts of the country rather quickly. It is concievable that this Morita character trained with Takeda. 

3. At least this guy didn't try and pretend that he was the only true heir to Daito ryu.

4.  He isn't the first to market his knowledge of Daito ryu with out a Menkyo Kaiden. Ueshiba taught before he recieved his and Hapkido is founded by someone with out any "paper" credentials.

5. old_sempai, you seem to have some issues with the Ueshiba style of aikido. Relax.

Tony


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## old_sempai

:asian:

Hi Tony:

No, while it may appear that I have issues with Aikikai practitioners, the reality is that I just get tired getting a sore neck each time I have to look up at foolish, self serving individuals sitting on their high horse of self-rightgeousness claiming they are the only ones that know the "Way".  And enjoy the challenge of asking them where the term "Ai" came from, or have they ever heard of the verb "Awaso?" 

As for Hapkido, my notes show that Choi, a Korean, as a child was given to Takeda and later when he was conscripted into the Japanese Army in 1941 purportedly founded this variant art.


:asian: :asian:


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## tmanifold

> _Originally posted by old_sempai _
> 
> *:asian:
> 
> Hi Tony:
> 
> No, while it may appear that I have issues with Aikikai practitioners, the reality is that I just get tired getting a sore neck each time I have to look up at foolish, self serving individuals sitting on their high horse of self-rightgeousness claiming they are the only ones that know the "Way".  And enjoy the challenge of asking them where the term "Ai" came from, or have they ever heard of the verb "Awaso?"
> 
> As for Hapkido, my notes show that Choi, a Korean, as a child was given to Takeda and later when he was conscripted into the Japanese Army in 1941 purportedly founded this variant art.
> 
> 
> :asian: :asian: *



As for Hapkido, yes that was what I was reffering to. And if he learned the techniques (and from what I know of hapkido it doesn't seem that far fetched) yet does not have an Menkyo Kaiden it is concievable that this Morita could be in the same boat. or maybe he learned some of the system but not enought to quite recieve certification.

Tony


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## old_sempai

:asian:

It was not uncommon in those times for a person to set up a local dojo, and not bother with registering or getting sanctioned by the Budokukai.  Especially if someone did not received a teaching license.  I believe that Uyeshiba did this very thing and this was the cause of the strained relationship that existed between him and Takeda.  

However, with the end of the war and the limited lifting of the ban on martial arts many new Aikido schools came into existence and rushed to open since it was a source of income for many destitute Japanese of that day.

:asian::asian:


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## Caine

> _Originally posted by old_sempai _
> 
> *There is an Aikido style known as Nihon Goshin Aikido that is not an off-shoot of Uyeshiba or any of his students.  It was founded in 1946 on the Island of Hokkaido by Morita Shoda who received a teaching license from either Kotaro Yoshida or Takeda Sokaku in 1925.  It was brought to the United States in 1963 and currently has approximately 25 dojo's and about 5000 practictioners.  It's generally not acknowledged by the O'Sensei schools [so much for Universal Harmony].:asian: *



I don`t think it needs to be acknowledged by the Aikikai if it did not originate from O Sensei, it may have nothing in common with Aikido as we know it. Actually, the term Aikido did not originate with O Sensei either. It was a genereric term used by the Dai Nippon Butokukai to describe aiki arts. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Minori Hirai who was partly responsible for the name change:

*I believe you played major role in the name-change from Aiki Budo to Aikido when you were a representative of the Kobukan Dojo to the Daí Nihon Butokukai (see side bar).

I was the Director of General Affairs of the Kobukan beginning around 1942 and I helped out Ueshiba Sensei in dayly matters. "Aikido", rather than being a specifically selected name, was the term used to refer to "Butokukai-Ryu", aiki budo within the Daí Nippon Butokukai. The headquarters of the Daí Nippon Butokukai was located in Kyoto and Butokuden centers were set up in all prefectures. Tatsuo Hisatomi from the Kodokan, and Shohei Fujinuma from Kendo, were close friends of mine. The Butokukai was an independent, umbrella organization for the martial arts, and it also was in charge of martial arts in the police departments.  * 

Go here for further reading

http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/_article.asp?ArticleID=738


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## Caine

> _Originally posted by Caine _
> 
> *
> Here is an excerpt from an interview with Minori Hirai who was partly responsible for the name change:
> 
> *


*

Apparently too late to edit, I should have written, partly responsible for the name change of O Sensei`S art.*


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## old_sempai

:asian: 

OK so here we go again, but before doing so I find it refreshing to find there are a few open-minded individuals on-board.

 :soapbox: 

It's noted on the site [www]Nihongoshinaikido[com]: "Morita Shodo learned Daito Ryu from an individual named Master Kotaro" [and I've noted that this gentleman was of the Satsuma Clan, once bitter rivals to the Aizu clan during the Bakumatsu Wars.] 

But, I also posted on this site that maybe it was not Kotaro Yoshida, but a gentleman by the name of Horikawa Kotaro.  His father, Horikawa Taiso, of the Fujino Clan was a student of Takeda Sokaku, but before studying Daito Ryu Horikawa Taiso had trained in Shibukawa ryu jujutsu and swordsmanship.  

And after taking up the study of Daito Ryu, in an effort to remember the techniques he was taught by Takeda, he began practicing with his son, Kotaro.   Upon learning of this Takeda was initially upset since Japanese Martial Arts customs forbade teaching techniques of a Ryu without a formal permission, and doing so considered a grave offense, and a serious insult to the Master of the Ryu. However, Takeda chose to overlook it because he liked Kotaro, and in 1914 Kotaro became his formal student. Because Kotaro was a slight person, similar in stature to Takeda, he was taught methods of performing the techniques suited to his size. The Kotaro received a Kyoju Dairi certificate in 1931, and later was awarded a Menkyo Kaiden [Master of all Jutsu from Tokimune Takeda. As a teacher, he preferred the old ways. He would teach a technique just once, and disliked repeating it or having to answer many questions, as did Sokaku Takeda. He passed on in 1980.   With regard to Ryus and ranking systems the number of ranks could be as much as five: beginning with Kirigami - literally Kirigami no Menkyo [this term actually describes the paper on which the rank was listed], then that of Shomokuroku or apprentice, followed by Shoden [or Shodan if you will]- first step or novice, then Chuden - intermediate, Okuden - knowledge of the heart of the traditions] and Kaiden - knowledge of all traditions, with the final rank being Menkyo Kaiden - licensed instructor.  However, there were other Ryus with a lessor number of grades, also starting with Kirikami [student], followed by Makimono [accomplished student], Mokuroku, and then Menkyo Kaiden [Master of all Jutsu] the highest grade. But, in these Ryus these titles also described the teaching license that had been granted as well! Furhter it was only after a highest grade had been achieved could the individual move onto pursuing training in other areas of study.

To return to Horikawa Kotaro, in accordance with Japanese customs he later changed his name becoming known as Kodo, and today his organization is called Kodokai. 

Something else to think about!

:asian: :asian:


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by old_sempai _
> 
> [BTo return to Horikawa Kotaro, in accordance with Japanese customs he later changed his name becoming known as Kodo, [/B]



What tradition is this? I know about emperors having their names changed after their deaths.


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## old_sempai

:asian: 

In Japan an Era always began with the ascendancy to the throne of a new Emperor, and during his life would always be known and referred to by his formal, but unspoken name, and upon his death is referred to by his Nengo or "Reign Name."  For example, in 1926 when Hirohito became Emperor he selected the reign-name of Showa - Peace Made Manifest.  During his life no one would ever use or say the name Hirohito, he would simply be referred to as the "Emperor."  Further, his year of accession, 1926, was styled in the Japanese calendar as Showa One with 1936, being Showa Eleven, etc., and throughout his lifetime he was known as Emperor Hirohito.  But since his death in 1989, he is now known as Emperor Showa. 

With regard to other name changes up until the end of the Second World War historical sources identify male members of a Samurai family as being considered an adult upon reaching the age of fifteen, with male members of a Noble family being considered an adult at age thirteen.  Although other sources identify the age of adulthood within each group as being the opposite, 13 for Samurai and 15 for nobles.  However, regardless of which view is accepted at birth a child was first given a milk name that they retained until the age of three, unlike Western beliefs a Japanese child was considered to be two years old after having survived their first year of life.  

When a child reach the age of three [according to Japanese calculations] a second name was given and used until age seven when a final childhood name was bestowed until their later passage into adulthood.  At this stage the last childhood name was discarded and a name made up of two characters was bestowed upon the male child.  The first character of the individuals adult name was always a hereditary one, and the second character was personally selected by the individual.  Once again it was found that some sources state the individuals father selected the new name.  Yet, regardless of the historical source cited, this adult name was bestowed upon the individual by their father or godfather during a special ceremony.  Part of this ceremony included presentation of a Kao, a special seal that was then used by the new Samurai for signing his new name.  This right of passage also permitted the individual the privilege of selecting a different surname, if so desired, but the Uji [Clan] name was never changed.

Whenever, a Samurai or Noble family found itself without a male heir a blood relation such as a nephew or cousin or another male from an affiliated or allied clan, regardless of their age would be adopted.  However, the family that this individual came from had to be one of equal stature to the family making the adoption.  Upon assuming the surname of his new family the individual would often select a new name once again!  The ability of a Samurai or Nobleman to select and use different names came from the exclusive birth right privileges of those belonging to either of these two classes.  Until the Edo Period began this privilege was never available to anyone born into another social class. As a result many of todays Japanese families only trace their roots back to the Edo period, the beginning of the 17th century when the cultural makeup became rigidly stratified into four major groups; the Nobility, the Samurai [Warrior], farmers and merchants, respectively.


The above are extracts from the unpublished book entitled: 

Shodan, Notes on the art of Aikido; Senju Aki Publications.
A subsidiary of The Daito Trading Company, LLC, Montague, New Jersey.  With all rights reserved, and no part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted
in any form or by any means electronic, mechanical,  photocopying, recording or otherwise without the prior permission of the copyright owner.

:asian: :asian:


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## arnisador

Thanks!


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## Nightingale

some interesting info here...


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## Kempo Guy

Let's not forget about Yoseikan Aikido (also called Yoseikan Budo) by the late Minoru Mochizuki (a pre-war student of Ueshiba Sensei) and the Tendokan Aikido by Kenji Shimizu Sensei (a former uchideshi).

Also, within the Aikikai there are several 'lines' that diverge from the teachings of the late and current Doshu. The two styles that are most different from the traditional "Hombu-style" is the teachings of the late Morihiro Saito sensei, the Iwama-style; and the style of Shoji Nishio sensei (usually referred to as Nishio-style). I've only been to seminars were these styles have been taught, but there is clearly a difference between the two and hombu-style in the way it's practiced and taught. 

For instance, Nishio style emphasizes the use of weapons (bokken and jo) and all techniques can be demonstrated using a jo or bokken (and of course empty handed). There is a strong emphasis on atemi (striking). Nishio sensei has also developed his own method of Iaido called Aiki Toho Iai, which has been recognized by one of the Iaido federations in Japan as a distinct and seperate line of Iai (ie. new ryuha). 

Iwama Aikido seems to focus less on ki-no-nagare (flowing techniques) in the beginning and really stress 'proper' technique. Techniques are done static with proper kuzushi (breaking of balance) etc. There is also a Bokken (Aikiken) and Jo curriculum developed by Saito Sensei.

KG


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## arnisador

It is surprising how many branches there are for such a relatively new art!


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## Kempo Guy

I agree. 
We can't forget Aikido's or rather Ueshiba Sensei's influence on Takumakai (one of the major Daito ryu branches) either. 

If you look at one of Aikido's parent arts, Daito Ryu, you will also see it influenced an even broader base of arts. A couple of the more popular ones being Shorinji Kempo and Hakko Ryu Jujutsu. 

KG


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## kenmpoka

> _Originally posted by Kempo Guy _
> *I agree.
> We can't forget Aikido's or rather Ueshiba Sensei's influence on Takumakai (one of the major Daito ryu branches) either.
> 
> If you look at one of Aikido's parent arts, Daito Ryu, you will also see it influenced an even broader base of arts. A couple of the more popular ones being Shorinji Kempo and Hakko Ryu Jujutsu.
> 
> KG *


Funny you mention this,
A while back, one Shorinji Kempo practitioner got real pissed at me when I mentioned that his art is influenced by Daito Ryu / Hakko Ryu and Shorinji Ryu Karate-Do. Well, people believe what they want to believe!

Salute,


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## Kempo Guy

I don't think you're the first one to have experienced this. 
It's odd how some of these practitioners want to deny this part (i.e. Daito Ryu/Hakko Ryu) of their heritage, considering how obviously it manifests in their system.

KG


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## amir

Caine said:
			
		

> Here is an excerpt from an interview with Minori Hirai who was partly responsible for the name change:
> 
> *I believe you played major role in the name-change from Aiki Budo to Aikido when you were a representative of the Kobukan Dojo to the Daí Nihon Butokukai (see side bar).*
> 
> *I was the Director of General Affairs of the Kobukan beginning around 1942 and I helped out Ueshiba Sensei in dayly matters. "Aikido", rather than being a specifically selected name, was the term used to refer to "Butokukai-Ryu", aiki budo within the Daí Nippon Butokukai. The headquarters of the Daí Nippon Butokukai was located in Kyoto and Butokuden centers were set up in all prefectures. Tatsuo Hisatomi from the Kodokan, and Shohei Fujinuma from Kendo, were close friends of mine. The Butokukai was an independent, umbrella organization for the martial arts, and it also was in charge of martial arts in the police departments. *
> 
> Go here for further reading
> 
> http://www.aikidojournal.com/articles/_article.asp?ArticleID=738


If you mention  *Minori Hirai* you should also mention he founded his own Aikido M.A.: "*Korindo Aikido".* Unlike most of the Aikido styles you mentioned so far, Korindo Aikido not only does not consider itself to be a branch of Ueshiba's teaching, it is also not based on daito ryu, rather on other Koryu styles *Minori Hirai* studied.

Amir


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## arnisador

I've never heard of Korindo Aikido--can you say more about it? What were the styles on which it was based?


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## Yari

I did a search and found the following sites:

German site 

Description of Korindo Aikido 

Other german site 

But i would like to hear from somebody who've praticed it!

/Yari


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## amir

What would you like to know ?



Korindo Aikido is mostly based on the styles Hirai sensei learned, some of those were: Togun Ryu Jujutsu, Takanouchi ryu, Kito-Ryo. Hirai specialized in Nito (two swords) as well as empty handed fighting and developed his own method of movement practice: now known among Korindo Aikido practitioners as the 8 circular tai-sabaki moves. He opened his first Dojo "Kogado-Dojo" at 1934 in Okayama. Hirai met Ueshiba for the first time in 1939 and later came to Tokyo at Ueshiba invitation and became thhe general manger of Ueshiba dojo. Hirai later (1942) left Ueshiba for a job at the Dai-Nihon-Butokukai, as the head of the department named as "Aikido" (note this is the coining of the "aikido" name, in a committee with Shohei Fujinuma & Tatsu Hisatomi , the latter invented the name). Hirai started his own dojo and system after the war, and named it "Korindo Aikido", the system has evolved under Hirai leadership and has several branches in Japan, Honk-Kong, Israel, Germany and I believe currently there are affiliated branches also in Italy & Mexico. Hirai passed away during the year of 1997 at the age of 94.



Today's Korindo Aikido includes even more Koryu systems then those Hirai has learned. Hirai had an open mind and encouraged the inclusion of more traditional weapons work, based on studies his students had made in other koryu systems (I am afraid I have not research this issue well enough to give specifics, I do know our studies of Bo are based on material learned by one of the Shihans). 



If you have any more questions, please ask.



Amir


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## arnisador

> Today's Korindo Aikido includes even more Koryu systems then those Hirai has learned.



So, it's to some extent a collection of traditional systems, but with its own take on movement?

It's interesting to learn about  a whole different type of Aikido!


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## amir

> So, it's to some extent a collection of traditional systems, but with its own take on movement?


Its a modern eclectic style that is based on it's historical predecessors and takes material from them, then adds it's own concept of movement, tactics and strategy to construct a distinct M.A.



Amir


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## Yari

arnisador said:
			
		

> It's interesting to learn about  a whole different type of Aikido!



I do agree, and would love to see it in "action"!


/Yari


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## amir

Yari said:
			
		

> I do agree, and would love to see it in "action"!
> 
> 
> /Yari


I am afraid you would have to look very hard for a Korindo Aikido Dojo.  Unlike Ueshiba Aikido, Korindo is a very small M.A. with less then a thousand trainees world wide.  I should also warn that different teachers teach different content, having been in Japan, I came to the conclusion Hirai, Korindo Aikido founder, did have a single form in mind and tried believed the M.A. itself should be soft and adapt to the practitioner.





Amir


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## Yari

Sounds like Ueshiba Aikido, many styles and forms have popped up inspired by peoples individuality.

/Yari


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## amir

Yari said:
			
		

> Sounds like Ueshiba Aikido, many styles and forms have popped up inspired by peoples individuality.
> 
> /Yari


I don't know about Ueshiba Aikido, in Korindo, it is still a single branch, with different approaches. As I have said, I have heard direct students of Hirai saying he told several of them they were practicing a correct form although each performed the same movement in a diffrent way.


Amir


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## Yari

amir said:
			
		

> ....Hirai saying he told several of them they were practicing a correct form although each performed the same movement in a diffrent way.
> 
> 
> Amir




I can't see this for me, could you come with an example? Wouldn't the form change if the movement changes? Typically the same thing we see in other styles.

/Yari


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## amir

I guess the problem is with my English.

A simple example would be a certain Tai-Sabaki, which both of these senior teachers taught with slight differences (angles of movement, depth of going down), each said he knows his interpretation is correct since Hirai told him so.

Looking at it from my side, I cam to the conclusion both interpretations were correct, depending on the implementation one thinks of. And when looking at the Tai-Sabaki movement as a general concept, both interpretations were worth practice since each emphasized another principle (strength of movement Vs fluidity and mobility to next movement).

I hope I am more understandable now.

Amir

P.S.
I should note that Korindo Aikido consider a set of 8 Tai-Sabaki movements as one of the pillars of study in the art.


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## Yari

amir said:
			
		

> I guess the problem is with my English.
> 
> A simple example would be a certain Tai-Sabaki, which both of these senior teachers taught with slight differences (angles of movement, depth of going down), each said he knows his interpretation is correct since Hirai told him so.
> 
> Looking at it from my side, I cam to the conclusion both interpretations were correct, depending on the implementation one thinks of. And when looking at the Tai-Sabaki movement as a general concept, both interpretations were worth practice since each emphasized another principle (strength of movement Vs fluidity and mobility to next movement).
> 
> I hope I am more understandable now.
> 
> Amir
> 
> P.S.
> I should note that Korindo Aikido consider a set of 8 Tai-Sabaki movements as one of the pillars of study in the art.



Ok I get the point. What are your 8 Taisabaki movements?

/Yari


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## amir

Since ther is no chance I will be able to explain them all in words, it might be better to read some more on the intention behind the moves:

http://www.freewebz.com/aikido/lecture/unit3.htm


The 4 "first" Tai Sabaki are:
180 degrees turn (turn in place)
360 degrees turn (similar to tenkan in Ueshiba Aikido yet different in the use of the hip).
Kote Kiri or 45 degrees outing
Irimi Sabaki (enter in irmi then turn 180 stepping back)

I doubt I would be able to describe the next 4, I could recomend a book my teacher wrote which describes them in detail with pictures though (but it is only available through him - no distribution).

Amir


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## Yari

Thanks. loved reading about it.

I know of different aikido schools were the same different taisabaki are using. I don't know if the finer details are the same, but it looks the same.

Another point I found very interessting is the "were to rotate on the foot" discussion. 

/Yari


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## amir

Yari said:
			
		

> Thanks. loved reading about it.
> 
> I know of different aikido schools were the same different taisabaki are using. I don't know if the finer details are the same, but it looks the same.
> 
> /Yari


I have never seen similar Tai sabaki in any other Aikido school, the only "tai sabaki" I saw being taught in a methodical way in Ueshiba Aikido is the tenkan, which has some external similarity to the 360 degrees turn in korindo, though the inner movement is not similar.
I would be most interested to hear of Tai-Sabaki in other Aikido schools besides Korindo.

Amir


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## Hazuki-san

I have recently made a decision to begin training in the art of Aikido (for Self-Defense and to better myself).  However, I am not sure what style to study.  I was thinking of studying the style developed by O'Sensei.  Thoughts and Opinions?  Is there an online Database where I can research the different styles (compare and contrast aspects and techniques), so that I can make an educated decision on which style suites what I want?  Thanks in advance.


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## Yari

amir said:
			
		

> I have never seen similar Tai sabaki in any other Aikido school, the only "tai sabaki" I saw being taught in a methodical way in Ueshiba Aikido is the tenkan, which has some external similarity to the 360 degrees turn in korindo, though the inner movement is not similar.
> I would be most interested to hear of Tai-Sabaki in other Aikido schools besides Korindo.
> 
> Amir



It would be hard to define on "print" the different ways of taisabaki. But if you look at "the dynamic Sphere of Aikido" (I think it's called), they have describe many taisabaki. Maybe that would give you a hint.

/Yari


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## Yari

Hazuki-san said:
			
		

> I have recently made a decision to begin training in the art of Aikido (for Self-Defense and to better myself).  However, I am not sure what style to study.  I was thinking of studying the style developed by O'Sensei.  Thoughts and Opinions?  Is there an online Database where I can research the different styles (compare and contrast aspects and techniques), so that I can make an educated decision on which style suites what I want?  Thanks in advance.



That wouls be hard, since alot of styles have individual slants inside the same style. I would "shop" around if possible, and then descide. Another factor is the teacher him/herself. 

/Yari


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## amir

Hazuki-san said:
			
		

> I have recently made a decision to begin training in the art of Aikido (for Self-Defense and to better myself). However, I am not sure what style to study. I was thinking of studying the style developed by O'Sensei. Thoughts and Opinions? Is there an online Database where I can research the different styles (compare and contrast aspects and techniques), so that I can make an educated decision on which style suites what I want? Thanks in advance.


The style is much less important then the teacher. Look for a good teacher for Aikido, and one that places importance on S.D. look at a few lessons, see if the practice corresponds with your expectations. For example, if S.D. is of importance,  you would expect advanced students to practice against multiple attack situations including punches, kicks and repetitive attacks rather then only arm grabbing situations.



The Ueshiba Aikido styles are large, there are very good teachers for S.D. in styles less reputed for it and vice versa.








			
				Yari said:
			
		

> It would be hard to define on "print" the different ways of taisabaki. But if you look at "the dynamic Sphere of Aikido" (I think it's called), they have describe many taisabaki. Maybe that would give you a hint.


 
Never read the book, and I do not know what is written inside. I have however seen lots of other styles of Aikido (not all, I have yet to see Tomiki style). I even practiced in an Aikikai dojo for a few months. I have never seen any movement that resembles the basic TaiSabaki we practice. I have seen many cases in which the movement became much longer and less applicable *in my eyes* due to this lack.

Amir


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## jujutsu_indonesia

Rubber Ducky said:
			
		

> I think that the "main" branches are:
> 
> - Aikikai;
> - Yoshinkan;
> - Tomiki;
> - Ki Society;
> - Iwama;
> - and others, many others I'm sure.


 
Yep. There is Yoseikan Aiki Budo 

http://www.yoseikan-budo.org/

This is founded by Mochizuki Minoru sensei, a senior student of both Uyeshiba Morihei and Kano Jigoro. This group is now ran by Mochizuki sensei's son, Hiroo.

They do a mixture of Gyokkushin-ryu Jujutsu, Aiki Budo (Uyeshiba sensei's old Jujutsu system before creating Aikido), Katori Shinto-ryu, Karate and old Judo (Judo before sport Judo).


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## kaizasosei

the level of softness over hardness or vice versa is a very interesting topic.  i believe that ueshibasenseis' aikido was softest at the beginning.   not saying that ueshibasensei did not constantly improve himself, but that he started out softer where the majority begin more forcefully.  aside from being a natural, 
ueshibasensei learned the secrets of aiki from ma like daitoryu amonst others. 
 the balance of hardness and softness can be seen as one of the greatest secrets of the martial arts...question is/are  :how hard does it get?  even more mysterious, how soft does it get? talking about the extremes of different approaches to martial arts, combat and stife, communication.  

while it is true that the aikido of most people as well as the general concept of aikido was initially harder.  then as they progressed, they usually would come to rely more on internal forces in some instances gaining certain spiritual interpretation of martial arts, movement and communication in general.

looking for aikidogroup i would advise to search out the more internal aspects of aikido.  it doesn't take much skill to knee someone and then perform some crushing lock whilst trembling and flushed.  
the most skillfull aikido will be very technical and exact-though the danger exists that if the humanrelationships are not harmonious or loving, it can be unjustly dominant even unrealistic.
  ultimately, aikido should be a demonstration of great control and skill.  not power or destruction.  there are plenty of other arts that will display bluntly  destructive moves.

check it out.  although everyone is learning and everyone has strength and weaknesses, the differences in various aikido types can be vast!!  make sure you can all you can get, more importantly that you hook up with a good community that values fairness as well as truth.    

j


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## kaizasosei

sorry double

having the chance to compete could be seen as a great way to maintain fairness and realism.  on the other hand, the spirit of aikido does not force or even encourage competition.  because competition of such a sort could in itself be seen as fighting, which is something that the true aikidoist shuns as it compromises ones spiritual and physical freedom.  therefore, competition type 'fighting' could possibly ingrain bad habits as well as fear and confusion of reality, spoiling the perfect movements, not able to think ahead.  if martial arts are languages, aiki should be a universal language of respect, harmony, distance as well as closeness.  both physically as well as spiritually.

-not that the aikido prac. cannot handle a fight.  philosophically put, there should be no fight. as saotomesensei says it's not a 'conflict spot' it's a 'communication spot'
fighting is spiritual.  this may be too extreme for some but i believe that when we are not happy, our hearts are actually fighting and even inflicting damage to others and also ourselves.


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## ejaazi

I belong to the Birankai. It is the organization that Chiba Sensei started. Of course, it is just one of many branches. Chiba Sensei has his own style, as do most of the Shihan who trained under O'Sensei. Eventually, we will all have a "style", but that doesn't mean it'll be a twin of the branch you started with.


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## theletch1

ejaazi said:


> I belong to the Birankai. It is the organization that Chiba Sensei started. Of course, it is just one of many branches. Chiba Sensei has his own style, as do most of the Shihan who trained under O'Sensei. *Eventually, we will all have a "style", but that doesn't mean it'll be a twin of the branch you started with*.


That's one of the most profound statements I've heard about aikido in a good while.  I repped you for it, BTW.  One of the key things to remember about the study of aikido is that since it doesn't deal in kata there are no truly "precise" movements in the art.  Each and every movement must be adjusted for the incoming energy, body style of the attacker and for the abilities and personality of the aikido-ka.  This makes the art a very personal thing. It becomes as much a part of you as you become a part of the art.  This very fact explains many of the differences from style to style as many of the Shihan made relatively large changes to the basic ideas of the style when creating their own.  The philosophy didn't change, just the way it was applied. The art is an ever evolving one and that aliveness, I believe, will allow the art to live on for a long, long time.


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## Yari

theletch1 said:


> ................The art is an ever evolving one and that aliveness, I believe, will allow the art to live on for a long, long time.


 

I bow


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## ejaazi

theletch1 said:


> That's one of the most profound statements I've heard about aikido in a good while. I repped you for it, BTW. One of the key things to remember about the study of aikido is that since it doesn't deal in kata there are no truly "precise" movements in the art. Each and every movement must be adjusted for the incoming energy, body style of the attacker and for the abilities and personality of the aikido-ka. This makes the art a very personal thing. It becomes as much a part of you as you become a part of the art. This very fact explains many of the differences from style to style as many of the Shihan made relatively large changes to the basic ideas of the style when creating their own. The philosophy didn't change, just the way it was applied. The art is an ever evolving one and that aliveness, I believe, will allow the art to live on for a long, long time.


 
Thanks for the rep. Your post was very well put. I have been to many seminars and seen many Shihan and I can tell you that they are all just as much the same as they are different. I believe that when they walk around watching you do technique and they nod with approval, it is because they see that you have grasped the foundation of the technique. I believe that they know your own personality will mold the technique. Chiba Sensie does not want you to try and "imitate" him, but rather, make Aikido your own Aikido. He once said that we should never be stuck doing things the same way, but to always look for a better way. I never forgot that statement and I try and apply that to my training every chance that I get.


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