# The Spear as defensive weapon



## Shovel Hook (Oct 4, 2006)

Just curious if anyone here trains spear fighting techniques. The Cold Steel demo/instructional was very impressive to me and I plan to pick up an Assegai, or maybe the Atlanta Cutlery Zulu, very soon and develop skills with it. I have always been interested in edged weaponry, and thought about the modern day combat use (in the event of not having a firearm) of the Khukri, Barong, Cutlass/Sabre, Katana/Wakizashi, Tomahawk, Bowie, Gladius, Battle axe, Kwang, CS Warlord, and so on but this dvd convinced me the spear is the king of non-projectile weapons. A backup is required which for me would be a push dagger, but this is a devastating weapon (as shown in comparison to a round of 00 Buckshot on a side of beef) with many advantages, and I can't wait to add it to my arsenal and become proficient with, maybe master, its use. The provided instructional seemed a fairly complete guide. But what other styles and systems make use of the spear? The naginata of Japanese arts could be worth looking into, or any information on African close combat. If you've not seen the Cold Steel dvd you can get it completely free from their website, it also includes (in addition to pretty entertaining performance demos of their products, an intro to blowguns, and use of the polearm and halberd) a pretty lengthy introduction/basics instructional on self defense with the sabre and cutlass which was very informative to this layman. I like to learn as much as I can about proper techniques of all weapons, more of a hobby than anything.

One more thing, completely off topic but I don't want to clutter the forum with another topic; Does anyone have any experience with the Atlanta Cutlery/Windlass Knob Sword Cane? I was wondering about quality, durability, and such, is it a good purchase. Never really interested in a sword cane before but this features a full length rapier blade, giving it minor cutting ability (compared with the usual stiletto blades on this type of thing). If it's pretty good quality (eg-functional) really wouldn't be a bad thing to own and practice with, and have that option for defensive carry uses.
It only costs $75 but I have to watch every penny. Oh, when I asked about quality, I am not snobby about knives, just want to know if it is combat ready. It appears to be, even though it was created for a movie (a recent Batman sequel)


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## Flying Crane (Oct 5, 2006)

Chinese martial arts often include training with the spear.  It is considered the King of Weapons, in the Chinese arts.  Very difficult to defend against.


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 5, 2006)

There are some sources on the web about fighting with polearms and spears from a western perspecive.  I'll try to dig some up.  They translate to my Cold Steel boar spear nicely.

You might find some of them in the Western Martial Arts section here as well.

Jeff


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## Kreth (Oct 5, 2006)

I have a Cold Steel Assegai. I've experimented with it a bit, mainly using variations off Bujinkan bo techniques.


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## lhommedieu (Oct 5, 2006)

> Just curious if anyone here trains spear fighting techniques...


 
Pekti Tirsia Kali has 2 sets of spear techniques (2-man forms) that would translate well to the boar spear.

San Miguel Eskrima has spear technique, a spear form, and a two-man form.

My friend Wes Tasker and I are thinking about teaching a Spear seminar next summer that would follow the same format as our espada y daga seminar/DVD.  It would probably be taught in the Boston area.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## arnisador (Oct 5, 2006)

The spear does appear in the FMA, but not often! Presumably the staff stands in for it, as a stick does for the sword. Don't forget the spear thrower!


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## Shovel Hook (Oct 8, 2006)

Do these arts employ cutting as well as thrusting. That ability is what impressed me the most on the Boar Spear and Assegai, got me interested in buying and training with spears. Never knew the variety of attacks possible, it is really like a sword. Lynn Thompson is an advertising genius, after seeing those dvd's there are very few CS products I am not interested in getting.
The recently discontinued Battle Axe looked very impressive for defensive purposes as did the War Hammer. The Halberd and Pole Axe were incredible weapons but I can't imagine a scenario to actually use one to protect myself. Way too big and heavy. Their new Butterfly Swords look very effective.
I am planning to get a BudK Pirate Cutlass, looks identical to the Museum Replicas Ltd. model at 5x the price, I think it would be good to have around the house in the absence of a firearm.

As for the spears, I am not really a hunter but would like to someday nail a boar with one. That level of danger would add more fun to the hunt.


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## Flying Crane (Oct 9, 2006)

Shovel Hook said:


> Do these arts employ cutting as well as thrusting. That ability is what impressed me the most on the Boar Spear and Assegai, got me interested in buying and training with spears. Never knew the variety of attacks possible, it is really like a sword. Lynn Thompson is an advertising genius, after seeing those dvd's there are very few CS products I am not interested in getting.
> The recently discontinued Battle Axe looked very impressive for defensive purposes as did the War Hammer. The Halberd and Pole Axe were incredible weapons but I can't imagine a scenario to actually use one to protect myself. Way too big and heavy. Their new Butterfly Swords look very effective.
> I am planning to get a BudK Pirate Cutlass, looks identical to the Museum Replicas Ltd. model at 5x the price, I think it would be good to have around the house in the absence of a firearm.
> 
> As for the spears, I am not really a hunter but would like to someday nail a boar with one. That level of danger would add more fun to the hunt.


 
Chinese spear techniques include cutting as well as thrusting.


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## Carol (Oct 10, 2006)

Shovel Hook said:


> techniques of all weapons, more of a hobby than anything.
> 
> One more thing, completely off topic but I don't want to clutter the forum with another topic; Does anyone have any experience with the Atlanta Cutlery/Windlass Knob Sword Cane? I was wondering about quality, durability, and such, is it a good purchase. Never really interested in a sword cane before but this features a full length rapier blade, giving it minor cutting ability (compared with the usual stiletto blades on this type of thing). If it's pretty good quality (eg-functional) really wouldn't be a bad thing to own and practice with, and have that option for defensive carry uses.
> It only costs $75 but I have to watch every penny. Oh, when I asked about quality, I am not snobby about knives, just want to know if it is combat ready. It appears to be, even though it was created for a movie (a recent Batman sequel)


 
Don't worry about cluttering the forum.  We like clutter   

Is this the one that you are referring too?

Never tried it, personally.   There are a couple of things that concern me.  One is, the sword cane is the reproduction of a movie prop.  That's not necessarily bad...but it also does not necessarily mean that a serious martial artist is the target audience for this piece.

It says nothing of what the blade is made of.  It says the grip and the head are solid aluminum and the shaft is solid aluminum...but says nothing about the kind of steel in the blade.  That is not a good sign.

$75 swords (of any kind) are generally not sturdy enough for a live application.  

If you do decide to purchase it, make sure your vendor has a good return policy.  Also double check to make sure sword canes are legal in your city and state....some states/municipalities ban them.


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## Shovel Hook (Oct 10, 2006)

I have those same concerns. A guy on bladeforums was very pleased with his (aside from being a rapier blade- not sharp for cutting), said the fit and finish was great, but that was one person, and the only owner I know of. Quality could be hit or miss, and not much can be expected for that price. You're right about the vendor, this is something I would really like to check out before buying. Maybe the pawn shop has one in stock (they sell new stuff), I'll have to check. I need to pick up a spear or two first though. AC's Zulu Iklwa short spear looks pretty nice also. Never ordered anything directly from them, had a Viking sword they sell and it was garbage but at a befitting price. I want one of their piple tomahawks too. I used to have a big collection of cutlery (as well as guns and other weapons), have nothing now but will be rebuilding a collection, this time of only useable and decent quality stuff. Maybe that rules out this sword cane. But after getting a Browning bowie last winter that was very cheap and quality reflected that, decided to only get good stuff from then on.


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 10, 2006)

If you are looking for a Sword Cane, try the Cold Steel one.  I have one and it was a pretty good price and good quality.  I also have their boar spear and several of their 'hawks and the now discontinued battle axe and love em all.  Just got the warhammer not too long ago and that's nice as well.

I'd shy away from AC/Windlass.  It is possible to get good stuff from them, but when I was buying their stuff, I had to send a lot back.  They seem to have very poor quality control.

Jeff


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## Shovel Hook (Oct 22, 2006)

JeffJ said:


> If you are looking for a Sword Cane, try the Cold Steel one. I have one and it was a pretty good price and good quality. I also have their boar spear and several of their 'hawks and the now discontinued battle axe and love em all. Just got the warhammer not too long ago and that's nice as well.


The Rapier blade was the turn on with the Windlass (you guys talked me out of it), wish CS made one of that configuration, not really into the stilletto blade.
I was EXTREMELY dissappointed by their last catalog, the discontinuations. Gonna make sure to Pick up the Safekeeper 2 ASAP if still possible, same with the Battle Axe, Peacekeeper I, the Oyabun, maybe even the Swiss Halberd would look good on the wall. Hate to see production end especially when in a lot of cases there's no comparable alternative. Like their old Warlord model, there hasn't been anything quite like that to my knowldge. Any distributors still stocking these? Ebay didn't come thru like I expected.
 CS Has always been my favorite mfg. for a number of reasons but mostly variety. They take the world's best designs (and some of their own) and produce them in high performance materials.

Any modification to the Boar Spear, or hawks? Do you do any drills with the spear? Do you like the Nam hawk? I got a junk one online and pawned it hours later (after 2 or 3 swings thru the air the heat flew clean off). How long does it take to get used to the balance? If you have the CS VN Hawk is the head/shaft connection solid?  Did you hone up the underside (the 'beard' portion I guess). I want to like it and give it another try because of its great cqb abilitites, it just felt awkward, wrong even, in my hand
I've been thinking of the LTC Kukri too seems kina overpriced though


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## davemitchel (Oct 22, 2006)

African close combat using a traditional spear (or as we call it here, an assegai), is not as refined and as systemised as the chinese / japanese weaponry styles. 

The real application of the assegai:
The assegai was the stock standard item in african warfare and used with a shield. The impi (warriors) were sent into battle with their assegai en masse and stabbed at random, using the shield to ward off attacks. Whilst the head on mode of attack was changed to a more Napoleonic mode of attack by Shaka, a Zulu King who was a brilliant tactician, the application of the Assegai did not.

Ritual use:
There may be some assegai rituals, which are more likely than not to take the format of a dance. Recommend you head out to Africa if you wish to learn the real McCoy. Where in Africa? That is nearly impossible to answer ....

Will try to find out and let you know should you be interested.

Peace
Dave


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## Mustafa (Oct 22, 2006)

davemitchel said:


> African close combat using a traditional spear (or as we call it here, an assegai), is not as refined and as systemised as the chinese / japanese weaponry styles.
> 
> The real application of the assegai:
> The assegai was the stock standard item in african warfare and used with a shield. The impi (warriors) were sent into battle with their assegai en masse and stabbed at random, using the shield to ward off attacks. Whilst the head on mode of attack was changed to a more Napoleonic mode of attack by Shaka, a Zulu King who was a brilliant tactician, the application of the Assegai did not.
> ...


Interesting story, thanks.

Anyway, judging by todays ethics. I think it is enough with only Shaka's brillaint tactics to achive victory.
But i am afraid that is not enough.  
(Watch out what you will answer here if you are going to)


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 22, 2006)

Shovel Hook said:


> The Rapier blade was the turn on with the Windlass (you guys talked me out of it), wish CS made one of that configuration, not really into the stilletto blade.
> I was EXTREMELY dissappointed by their last catalog, the discontinuations. Gonna make sure to Pick up the Safekeeper 2 ASAP if still possible, same with the Battle Axe, Peacekeeper I, the Oyabun, maybe even the Swiss Halberd would look good on the wall. Hate to see production end especially when in a lot of cases there's no comparable alternative. Like their old Warlord model, there hasn't been anything quite like that to my knowldge. Any distributors still stocking these? Ebay didn't come thru like I expected.
> CS Has always been my favorite mfg. for a number of reasons but mostly variety. They take the world's best designs (and some of their own) and produce them in high performance materials.
> 
> ...


Sorry I took so long to get back on this.

With the boar spear, I pretty much treat it like I did a glaive back in my SCA days.  It's a good heft and length for that.  As for the Viet Nam 'hawk, I really like the Cold Steel one.  However, I'm looking into getting one of the more modern ones based on that design.

Jeff


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## davemitchel (Oct 22, 2006)

Hi Jeff,

I found an MA Organisation in SA (JKD) where the use of the assegai has been incorporated into martial arts training. Should you be interested, go to the following URL:  www.jkdu.co.za 

Morne Swanepoel is the Master.

Thanks
Dave


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 22, 2006)

davemitchel said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I found an MA Organisation in SA (JKD) where the use of the assegai has been incorporated into martial arts training. Should you be interested, go to the following URL:  www.jkdu.co.za
> 
> ...


Thanks!

That is way cool.

Jeff


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## davemitchel (Oct 22, 2006)

Let me know if you need me to search a bit further. It is not hard for me to do seeing that I am living in SA, and all.

Dave


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