# Key Kata



## Jason Striker II (Feb 23, 2012)

I think it was GM Richard Kim who said that you only really need a handful of Kata to become a Karate master. His list was, if I rightly recall, Seisan, Passai, Kushanku, Chinto, and Gojushiho.

My own list would be: Sanchin, Tensho, Hangetsu, Tekki Shodan, Bassai Dai, and Kanku Dai.

Reasons

Sanchin: the basis of Karate

Tensho: all major parrying techniques, traps, and escapes from wrist-grabs

Hangetsu: all basic techniques of medium-range

Tekki Shodan: key techniques of close-range fighting

Bassai Dai: key techniques for changing the line from inside to outside

Kanku Dai: key combinations and techniques against multiple attackers


I'd class all other Kata as, in one way or another, evolving out out these six. Not to say that other Kata are not valuable (e.g. Jitte and Jion deal with staff attacks), but rather that all other Kata are extensions of the concepts found in the above list. I always train something like 15 - 20 Kata (all classical, I no longer work the Heian forms), but consider the above six the core.
___________

I'd be interested in how other Yudansha classify their key Kata.


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## Kinghercules (Feb 23, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> I think it was GM Richard Kim who said that you only really need a handful of Kata to become a Karate master. His list was, if I rightly recall, Seisan, Passai, Kushanku, Chinto, and Gojushiho.
> 
> My own list would be: Sanchin, Tensho, Hangetsu, Tekki Shodan, Bassai Dai, and Kanku Dai.
> 
> ...



I thougth Jion was a kata in its own right?
Which kata did it evolved from?
I thought Jion is dated older then those you listed?


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## dancingalone (Feb 23, 2012)

Goju-ryu karate doesn't have a lot of forms so arguably they are all important with good reasons to learn them.  

But if we had to pick a few, most would say in Goju-ryu, it begins with Sanchin.  If you don't understand Sanchin to a reasonable degree, you don't understand Goju either.  I also believe Seiunchin (strengthens body along with Sanchin - many takedowns also), Seisan (teaches penetrating methods), and Kururunfa (a lot of the hard/soft dualism come through in this form - teaches defense along with quick counters - rich layers of bunkai with techniques effective from all ranges) transmit much of the system nicely, but probably most practitioners would say Suparinpei or Tensho are the ultimate kata.


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## SahBumNimRush (Feb 23, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> Reasons
> 
> Sanchin: *Don't practice*
> 
> ...



The other key form we practice in our current curriculum is Chinto (Gankaku), which has many key benefits (although one could argue that the key concepts are not unique to the form). Chinto has concepts of close range strikes, locks, and throws, as well as medium/long range attacks.  

One other form that we don't practice in our curriculum anymore, but I find value (and still teach in my dojang at higher dan ranks) is Wansu/Empi.  I like the penetrating and throwing techniques found within this form.


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## Grenadier (Feb 24, 2012)

In the Shotokan system, as you progress towards the higher levels, and study the more advanced kata, you'll actually see areas in the advanced kata where having a decent level of proficiency in the earlier kata will greatly help you.  

For example, those who wish to learn the kata Unsu (one of the most advanced), should really have a solid understanding of what goes on in Kanku Dai, Bassai Dai, Empi, Gankaku, and Jion, as well as being able to perform them at a very high level, using correct Shotokan fundamental techniques, before even trying this kata.  By the time someone has a solid mastery (as close to it) of the above kata, then they should be able to move by driving the lower body, and not relying on the upper body to do so.  

For that matter, they should have had that kind of understanding when going for that shodan ranking, and strongly improved it throughout the time.  

For that matter, I would also throw in Kanku Sho into that mix as well, if someone wanted to learn Unsu.  

All in all, though, I don't consider the knowledge of a particular kata to be the determinant of whether or not someone's ready to handle the most advanced parts of the training.  I simply use the kata as a measuring stick, regarding how solid one's fundamental techniques are.  If someone can't move by using proper weight shifting while keeping the hip height at one level, and maintaining the correct types of tension, then even list of kata that I mentioned above (Kanku Dai, Bassai Dai, Empi, Gankaku, and Jion} aren't going to look too good at all, and it would be a waste of time trying to teach someone the more advanced kata at this stage.  

It's no different than a carpenter trying to build a house.  Every carpenter would love to build a magnificent mansion, but to do so, requires that he has an excellent working knowledge of how to use tools properly, have a good set of tools, and have good building materials before taking on such a task. 

If he lacks any of the above, then even the construction of a simple 2 bedroom garden house is going to be shoddy.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 24, 2012)

I don't know what is necessary to _'become a master'_.  No idea.  Can't comment on it.  I'm not even sure I know what that means.  What exactly is a master?

We practice 8 empty hand katas.  I do not have them all yet, and I have mastered none of them; I'm not even sure if I can do so in my lifetime.  However, to contribute what I can to the discussion:

Sanchin - Grounding, breathing, balance, dynamic tension.
Seisan - Fundamentals changing direction and straight-line attacks and defenses.
Seiunchin - Power, focus, and adaptive techniques.
Naihanchi - Lateral movement and fighting to the sides, grounding.
Wansu - Hidden attacks and deception, changing direction, grappling and throwing basics, introduction to simultaneous defense/offense.
Chinto - Fighting on uneven ground, unconventional stances for stability, introduction to leaping/deceptive kicks.
Kusanku - Introduction to use of body torque as a weapon. ??? (still working on it)
Sunsu - Have not yet learned.

I know which kata I prefer to work on given my druthers - Sanchin, Seiunchin, and Wansu.  They suit my body type and my preference to attack with power in more of a linear fashion and to counterpunch.  I like Seisan as well.

I'm not all that fond of Naihanchi or Chinto, but I know they are important and so I do work on them.

Kusanku is murdering me.  I have huge problems dropping to one knee (or more precisely getting back up from dropping to one knee).  Overweight, age 50, and out of shape may have something to do with it.

We also practice a 'dojo kata' which is not part of our system, called 'Taikioku'.  I'm not that fond of it, but it does contain most of our basic exercises in one kata.


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## Grenadier (Feb 24, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Kusanku is murdering me.  I have huge problems dropping to one knee (or more precisely getting back up from dropping to one knee).  Overweight, age 50, and out of shape may have something to do with it.



Usually, an instructor will allow modifications to the kata, if there are physical limitations in the way.  For example, in a kata such as Empi / Wanshu, there's a 360 degree jump and landing.  For our students who have bad knees, or other injuries, or simply can't make a decent jump (yes, there are 2" vertical jump people out there who are excellent Karate-ka), we allow them to spin on one foot instead of jumping into the air.  

For Kanku Dai, where you're going all the way down (probably the same step that you're having issues with in Kusanku), we allow people who have problems, to stay a bit more upright.  

And, of course, for something like Unsu where you're dropping all the way to the floor to avoid attacks, we allow those who need to do so, to simply substitute regular round kicks from a standing position.  

I don't expect those with physical problems to perform such kata at the elite level.  However, by their practicing those kata, even with the modifications, they're still learning valuable things.

You should speak with your sensei about the problem in Kusanku.  He shouldn't be offended by it at all, and if anything should eagerly look forward to helping you find a modification that will still allow you to reap the benefits of learning the kata.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 24, 2012)

Grenadier said:


> You should speak with your sensei about the problem in Kusanku.  He shouldn't be offended by it at all, and if anything should eagerly look forward to helping you find a modification that will still allow you to reap the benefits of learning the kata.



He's not only aware of it and makes allowances for my limitations, he actually tells me not to drop to one knee when we practice it in class; he's more aware of it than I am sometimes.  So it's all good.

However, as a veteran Marine, I find my lack of physical ability unacceptable, and I am working to improve my abilities.  Some limitations maybe permanent; but I hope to increase my abilities to the extent I am capable without injuring myself.  My frustration is only with myself; my Sensei and my dojo are very accepting of me as I am.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Feb 24, 2012)

I would go by my favourite Goju-ryu katas, the katas that can suit my body type.

Tensho - is good for parrying attacks

Seiyunchin - is good for solid foundation and the blend of hard and soft techniques

Sanseru - is good for effective kicks and in close fighting

Seisan - is good for close range fighting


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## Jason Striker II (Feb 24, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Goju-ryu karate doesn't have a lot of forms so arguably they are all important with good reasons to learn them.
> 
> But if we had to pick a few, most would say in Goju-ryu, it begins with Sanchin.  If you don't understand Sanchin to a reasonable degree, you don't understand Goju either.  I also believe Seiunchin (strengthens body along with Sanchin - many takedowns also), Seisan (teaches penetrating methods), and Kururunfa (a lot of the hard/soft dualism come through in this form - teaches defense along with quick counters - rich layers of bunkai with techniques effective from all ranges) transmit much of the system nicely, but probably most practitioners would say Suparinpei or Tensho are the ultimate kata.



First, thanks to all for the responses.

About dancingalone's comments: I think you make some good points. I don't know all the classical Goju Kata (I only practice   Sanchin, Tensho, Saifa, Seiunchin, and Seipai),but I still feel the classical 10 (I don't count Gekisai as classical anymore than I would count Heian) could be cut to five or six. Definitely Sanchin, Tensho, and Suparempei would need to be included.

I am also glad to hear you class Tensho as an "ultimate Kata"! GM Miyagi showed true genius in that creation - it appears simple, and yet is profound.


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## seasoned (Feb 24, 2012)

> From the book "The way of Sanchin kata, By Kris Wilder
> 
> 
> The basic kata sanchin has existed a long time, and has developed into variations
> ...


*
Just a thought.........
*
Everyone can benefit from sanchin kata no matter what style you study.
x


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## Jason Striker II (Feb 24, 2012)

Seasoned wrote: *Just a thought.........* Everyone can benefit from sanchin kata no matter what style you study.

Oh, man! You are SO damn right - and SO many people will not want to hear/believe/understand what you are saying...


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 24, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> Seasoned wrote: *Just a thought.........* Everyone can benefit from sanchin kata no matter what style you study.
> 
> Oh, man! You are SO damn right - and SO many people will not want to hear/believe/understand what you are saying...



I recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Sanchin-Kata-Application-ebook/dp/product-description/B0026A6CIQ


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## Victor Smith (Feb 24, 2012)

Essentially every kata I study is a key kata.

But if push comes go shove and I have to take you out, my choice is Sanchin.

O' I only perform it full speed and normal breathing... and nobody likes to work with me when I start on it's applications.
For me why should Uechi ryu have all the fun.

But I've studied several hundred kata in the past 38 years and they all have their value.


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## Jason Striker II (Feb 25, 2012)

Victor Smith said:


> Essentially every kata I study is a key kata.
> 
> But if push comes go shove and I have to take you out, my choice is Sanchin.
> 
> ...



I certainly agree that Sanchin is the foundation of Karate. I think it was Higaonna Kanryo who claimed that "Karate is Sanchin." 

BTW, Victor, if you insist "to take me out" my preference is Italian.


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## K-man (Feb 27, 2012)

Perhaps we need a definition of just what it is that we believe kata is.   For me each kata is a fighting system. Funakoshi said something along the lines of "practise the kata over and over until you can use it in any threatening situation". Now, I believe that kata contain many individual applications but I practise, and teach, a number of kata as systems (Gekisei, Saifa, Seiyunchin, San Seru, and Shisochin) and can switch between kata as the need arises.  It is my lifetime ambition to study the rest of the Goju kata in the same way.  So which is most important? I would suggest it is the kata that suits your individual style and needs.  For me, at this time, Seiyunchin probably flows best. 

How many kata to be a Master?  I would think that to be a Master in your particular style you would need them all.  If your style was a mix of different styles then perhaps you would only need as few as one or two.  As I said at the beginning, it depends what you get from your kata, not how many kata you know.


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## TimoS (Mar 2, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> I certainly agree that Sanchin is the foundation of Karate. I think it was Higaonna Kanryo who claimed that "Karate is Sanchin."


It is and it isn't, at least that's the way I see it. While it is central to e.g. Goju and Uechi ryu, it really isn't that important to (most) Shorin schools out there. For the Shorin schools, it's either Naifanchi or Seisan that are the fundamental building blocks, depending on which Shorin ryu branch you happen to be in (Chibana or Kyan)


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## Jason Striker II (Mar 2, 2012)

TimoS said:


> It is and it isn't, at least that's the way I see it. While it is central to e.g. Goju and Uechi ryu, it really isn't that important to (most) Shorin schools out there. For the Shorin schools, it's either Naifanchi or Seisan that are the fundamental building blocks, depending on which Shorin ryu branch you happen to be in (Chibana or Kyan)



A good comment. I always think of Seisan/Hangetsu as the "expanded version" of Sanchin.


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## TimoS (Mar 2, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> A good comment. I always think of Seisan/Hangetsu as the "expanded version" of Sanchin.



A friend of mine, who trained in Shotokan before switching to Seibukan, said that Hangetsu is kind of doing Sanchin with moves from Seisan. I'm not familiar with Hangetsu (seen the videos, of course) but the Seisan we're doing has, IMO, almost nothing to do with Sanchin. Here's our Seisan
[yt]LFSnV7s_5i0 [/yt]


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## Jason Striker II (Mar 2, 2012)

TimoS said:


> A friend of mine, who trained in Shotokan before switching to Seibukan, said that Hangetsu is kind of doing Sanchin with moves from Seisan. I'm not familiar with Hangetsu (seen the videos, of course) but the Seisan we're doing has, IMO, almost nothing to do with Sanchin. Here's our Seisan
> [yt]LFSnV7s_5i0 [/yt]



I live in China, so your video, wherever it is located, is blocked: if you post the address (www. blah blah blah), I will try to access it via proxy.


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## TimoS (Mar 2, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> I live in China, so your video, wherever it is located, is blocked: if you post the address (www. blah blah blah), I will try to access it via proxy.


Oh ok, it's on youtube. 




The video has Zenpo Shimabukuro sensei doing the kata quite slowly for demonstration purposes


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## Jason Striker II (Mar 2, 2012)

TimoS said:


> Oh ok, it's on youtube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got it. I've seen this before: beautiful, strong version of the Kata. The opening is similar to Richard Kim's Shorinji-Ryu version, with the retraction of the arm before stepping; turning technique very different; and, after the turn, the lead hand is used as the trap, rather than the rear, as in Hangetsu;  in Hangetsu, the leg is raised before the uraken, idea being Fumi-Komi (side kick stomp to knee); last little diff, your version uses the front kick, not crescent.

Anyway, my main point on this Kata is that all the fundamental techniques of Okinawan Karate are in it. Sanchin, to me, is like an abbreviated version, emphasizing strengthening. 

Thanks for posting the video.


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## TimoS (Mar 3, 2012)

Jason Striker II said:


> Anyway, my main point on this Kata is that all the fundamental techniques of Okinawan Karate are in it. Sanchin, to me, is like an abbreviated version, emphasizing strengthening.



Ah ok. Now I understand. And agree. At least to us in Seibukan, this kata is kind of like Sanchin: it is the foundation, on top of which everything else rests.


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