# Is Reputation Anonymous?



## Emptyglass

Hi all:

I think I've made my feelings on the value of the reputation stat well known. However, I have a question about it which I am not sure has been answered. If it has, please let me know and point me at the proper thread.

Is reputation anonymous for all users or just some of them? It is for me if someone does not sign their name to it, but I have reason to believe that it is not anonymous for all users. Can Admins, Asst. Admins, Moderators and so forth see who is sending them reputation while other users cannot?

Thanks,

Rich Curren


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## Bob Hubbard

Yes, Admins, Asst. Admins and Mods can see who sent them rep.


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## Emptyglass

Bob:

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

Rich Curren


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## DoxN4cer

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Yes, Admins, Asst. Admins and Mods can see who sent them rep.



Would you share the info if asked?

Never mind I already know your answer.


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## Bob Hubbard

What reason would there be to set something up to be anonymous, and then tell people?

As we have stated previously, no.

If we are however informed of someone abusing the system, we will investigate and take the appropriate action. That action being anything from nothing, to a warning, to removal of the 'rep points' to suspension or banning.


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## Cruentus

heh...heh...Little do you all know, but I can see who gives me rep points too!

Yours,

Cole Sear


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## loki09789

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> What reason would there be to set something up to be anonymous, and then tell people?
> 
> As we have stated previously, no.
> 
> If we are however informed of someone abusing the system, we will investigate and take the appropriate action. That action being anything from nothing, to a warning, to removal of the 'rep points' to suspension or banning.


So is this ability to see who gave rep a by product of being admin/mod/advisor or does it have a functional purpose?  It seems kind of useless as an ability if someone is only sending rep to an admin/mod/advisor as 'just another member' but and admin can use that priviledge for personal agendas.

I could see having admin ability to back track rep points but what administrative purpose/job description function does being able to see who is giving you personal rep points?  I can see it as a defensive tool on a personal level, but then why wouldn't we all be able to then?


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## Bob Hubbard

byproduct.


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## shesulsa

loki09789 said:
			
		

> It seems kind of useless as an ability if someone is only sending rep to an admin/mod/advisor as 'just another member' but and admin can use that priviledge for personal agendas.


 Hmm.... Are you of the opinion that some of the people who hold those positions are engaged in abusing their power as admins/mods/advisors?

 Your statement would hold water, but...I really don't see that happening here.  It's one of the reasons I stay.


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## Bob Hubbard

I have looked through the reputation database and found little to suggest any staff members are abusing the system.

Well, thats not totally true.

We have gone through various threads and given extra positives to encourage folks.
We have given extra positives to offset a few negatives here and there.
We have on request -removed- offensive rep-statements, and warned the senders.

Having looked back through what was sent to me by various individuals I can see several 'in-spite' dings.

I am contemplating some minor changes to the system.  One of those would include resetting the system and everyone back to zero. It also includes allowing supporting members the ability to see who sent it.  "Wait, I have to pay to see that?  Thats not fair!".  Nope, neither is life. This isn't a democracy, it's not even a republic. Its a monarchy with advisors that has operational expenses that strives to be the best destination for martial artists online. 

Another possible feature is the ability to 'hide' your reputation.  Personally, I think it should be public.  I also think folks should fill out more of their profiles beyond the name/location bit we do require privately.

Again, things being considered, nothing is changed yet, nor set in stone.  Many things are being discussed at the moment, and will continue for at least another week.

I'm a bit busy finishing up preparations for a sci-fi con that will have 10-20 of my art pieces on display.  Once I'm back, I've got a week-10 days before the Buffalo MT camp to do the tweaks I have planned for MT this quarter, and maybe get the summer edition of the E-Zine out as well.


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## Flatlander

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> I am contemplating some minor changes to the system. One of those would include resetting the system and everyone back to zero. It also includes allowing supporting members the ability to see who sent it.
> 
> Again, things being considered, nothing is changed yet, nor set in stone. Many things are being discussed at the moment, and will continue for at least another week.


Are you accepting input on any of these potential changes from supporting members?


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## loki09789

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Hmm.... Are you of the opinion that some of the people who hold those positions are engaged in abusing their power as admins/mods/advisors?
> 
> Your statement would hold water, but...I really don't see that happening here. It's one of the reasons I stay.


I could make that statement but, more to the point, honestly after looking at all the work it creates for the mods/admins who are working on a voluntary basis I say just get rid of it all together.  No matter how 'fairly' it is set up, it will be a point of contention and create some 'have/have not' perceptions.

One of the general responses that keeps coming up is "it is only the internet" or "it doesn't really mean anything" ....well to some members it does mean something and causes some stress.  I think it is funny myself.  I pay attention to it because, as I have said, how people use/abuse such things on the internet can be very telling about them as people in general.  So, admin or member, if it is just another point of stress and contraversy get rid of it to lighten the load by eliminating one more thing for people to argue over that has NOTHING to do with topics and boils down to 'good old boy'ism.

Just loose it.


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## Bob Hubbard

flatlander said:
			
		

> Are you accepting input on any of these potential changes from supporting members?


 Yup.  Constructive feedback's always appreciated.


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## Flatlander

Well, I must say that I see value in the system, particularly from the perspective of visitors and new members of the board.  It may be difficult to remember for some of the seasoned veterans here, but when you are unsure of who to trust, I believe the reputation score is a reasonable metric by which to form initial judgement.

I think it's fair to say that everybody on this board with an extremely positive reputation could be said to have previously demonstrated advanced knowledge in their respective arts, resourcefulness, honour, good humour, and decorum.  This becomes clear to anyone who critically reads through historical threads.  

In that context, I do not forsee any potential value in undoing what has been done.  Without naming any names, I can honestly declare that to relegate some of the people on this board to being "eqully reputable" would be a travesty, and a disservice to their respective histories here.

Beyond that, though, should the Administration of this fine site see fit to 'fix' some portion of the histories here, as long as it's done fairly, as I have no doubt it would be, that would certainly be appropriate.  I'm sure there are many, many things that have happenned here of which many of us are not privy to.  

I ended that sentence in a preposition, because it didn't read well any other way.

Thank you for allowing me to contribute.

Dan Bowman.


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## Tgace

My only criticism of the system is the disproportionate changes some people can do over others. Upset the wrong people with the most clout and down you go. IMHO if you are going to keep the system it should be a "one man one vote" setup. Why should one "powerful" person who dosent like a post have more influence over 10 peons who agree with it?


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## Bob Hubbard

Why should someone who just signed up, and is only going to stick around for a week or 2 to help out their pals get equal treatment to someone whose been here 3 years through the good and the bad?


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## Michael Billings

Nope!


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## Tgace

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Why should someone who just signed up, and is only going to stick around for a week or 2 to help out their pals get equal treatment to someone whose been here 3 years through the good and the bad?


Yeah, thats a good point. Theres also nothing stopping somone from cycling rep points through 10 of their friends over and over again. Or keeping somebody from posting thousands of 1-5 word useless posts to jack up their rank. Theres always ways to tamper with a system. Im not complaining about the system either as I dont feel this "extra stuff" is as important as the ideas exchanged here. I also am not demanding anything just expressing my opinion.


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## Michael Billings

Ya know, now that I have had some time to reflect on it, I think Reputation SHOULD remain anonymous.  It is just a serious way to start flame wars and keep old battles raging.  

 I would not reset the counters or mess with it in any way ... unless you are getting rid of it comletely.  If someone has the time and energy to cycle through and give their friends Pos rep or not so friends Neg rep; then let them have at it.  It is not really relevant insofar as credibility is concerned, except to some of the newbies.

 -Michael


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## mj-hi-yah

Hmmm...It seems to me that reputation points are a bit like the belt ranking system...it really shouldn't matter  but when you read this thread, it seems that to some people it really does!  I think this is very real for some, and maybe should be rethought a bit because of that.  I also do kind of think that in most cases it is a bit cowardly to leave negative comments for someone without identifying yourself.  It's like talking behind someone's back where they can't see you, but loud enough so they can hear.  

I just think the positive approach is always preferred. For people who take this all very seriously I think negative rep points are doubly hurtful.  If reputation on this forum matters to someone a lot the comments alone may be taken as personally hurtful and then on top of that losing points creates further hurt.  

I'm not sure what the purpose of the anonymous negative messages are, but while cowardly, if it is to promote free speech, why not allow positive rep points but also anonymous negative comments that can send a message, but don't affect a person's rep.   This way people would hear from the anonymous party but not have to "pay" for it.   Maybe even the flip side would be less hurtful take away rep points but don't allow unkind messages to accompany it.  One of the negative comments that was shared here was really unkind and might be upsetting to anyone.  I just don't see what purpose it serves. Knock someone down enough times and they may not get back up, and lose interest in being here - and I doubt this is a conscious part of the plan. :idunno: 

Just my thoughts...


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## Littledragon

mj-hi-yah said:
			
		

> Hmmm...It seems to me that reputation points are a bit like the belt ranking system...it really shouldn't matter  but when you read this thread, it seems that to some people it really does! I think this is very real for some, and maybe should be rethought a bit because of that. I also do kind of think that in most cases it is a bit cowardly to leave negative comments for someone without identifying yourself. It's like talking behind someone's back where they can't see you, but loud enough so they can hear.
> 
> I just think the positive approach is always preferred. For people who take this all very seriously I think negative rep points are doubly hurtful. If reputation on this forum matters to someone a lot the comments alone may be taken as personally hurtful and then on top of that losing points creates further hurt.
> 
> I'm not sure what the purpose of the anonymous negative messages are, but while cowardly, if it is to promote free speech, why not allow positive rep points but also anonymous negative comments that can send a message, but don't affect a person's rep. This way people would hear from the anonymous party but not have to "pay" for it. Maybe even the flip side would be less hurtful take away rep points but don't allow unkind messages to accompany it. One of the negative comments that was shared here was really unkind and might be upsetting to anyone. I just don't see what purpose it serves. Knock someone down enough times and they may not get back up, and lose interest in being here - and I doubt this is a conscious part of the plan. :idunno:
> 
> Just my thoughts...


I totally agree with you. I think we should emphasize more of a postivie repuation while clicking instead of negative. If you don't like a post be a man and leave it at that but don't try to get some one out for it.


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## arnisador

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> Ya know, now that I have had some time to reflect on it, I think Reputation SHOULD remain anonymous. It is just a serious way to start flame wars and keep old battles raging.


I agree. I'm not sure that reputation is needed, but if it were to be non-anonymous, what would it add? People can PM non-anonymous one-on-one comments, and they can post non-anonymous comments that are intended for all to see...non-anonymous rep. doesn't seem to add much functionality.

Of course, that leaves the question as to whether anonymous rep. adds positive functionality. I know this feature has been controversial wherever it's been used.

I note that rep. is awarded by _post_ but accrues to a _member_. Has there been an official statement as to how it should be used? I know originally it was considered somewhat experimental by Kaith, and so resetting it has something to be said for it...but it might also be useful to have the admins make a statement like, "We recommend/request/insist that you award rep. to _posts_ with which you agree or disagree, not to _people_ whom you like or dislike" (or whatever the policy is). It'd be hard to enforce, but it would give some guidance.

There might be something to be said for not displaying the red/green boxes. Let people leave anonymous feedback, but don't let them see the effects (like course evaluations for teachers at many schools--at others they are made public). It would have the advantage of allowing quick, anonymous corrections that don't risk pulling the commenter into a drawn-out PM exchange, but wouldn't allow anyone the satisfaction of seeing a new red box appear. The "in-spite" comments would still occur, I'm sure.

It would also be nice if it could be made so that a variable amount up to that person's maximum rep.-altering ability could be given.

Rep. will cause problems, but they're in the same kind as those caused by actual posts--people will use Report to Mod. for posts disagreeing with what they said, or questioning their background. The complaints I've seen about rep. are in the same vein as those for posts, esp. for posts by members whose public profiles don't contain much identifying info. To my mind, it isn't new--not even the anonymity part. But unlike a flamewar started in a single thread involving a member whose real identity isn't given, the public rep. lives on after a thread might be closed and serves as a reminder.

On the other hand--in favor of rep.--given the problems the site has had with being able to roust out frauds at an acceptable rate, I'd think more people would like having the rep. feature available. There are many past cases where people would have liked to have been able to give a fraud (in their eyes) nine red boxes. I think it would have lowered the heat in many threads we've seen in past years.


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## someguy

To some xtent you can tell if some people have given you points.  As arnisador  posted last I will use him as an example.  Well he probably is the best example.  If I suddenly go from 100 points to 150ish then i could tell it was probably him.  Well there are a couple of other people who could do that. Kaith could.  Umm probably more that I'm not thinking of.


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## Littledragon

The only major problem I see with Reputaition feedback is if someone does not agree with your posts or holds a grudge against you they will give negative feedback. But if someone is expressing their opinion in a mature way and the person has a grudge against you and does not agree with you they will still leave negative feedback. But that doesn't really bother me because no matter what forum site you will go on there will always be somebody who doesn't like you.

Tarek


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## Tgace

I just find it very "high schoolish" in a popularity contest sort of way. Dosent really bother me much though. (as Im a "jewel in the rough"  )


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## loki09789

Tgace said:
			
		

> I just find it very "high schoolish" in a popularity contest sort of way. Dosent really bother me much though.


Agreed, and since it makes more 'brushfires' for the admins/mods to deal with than needed and doesn't really seem to mean much to most members I still say get rid of the popularity token reward system.

Arnisador makes a good point.  People aren't scoring pos or neg the post or the point being made, they are crediting/discrediting the poster for that post.

As far as using it as tool for newbies to use to assess the validity of current member credibility, the above point undermines that reasoning IMO.  Besides which, they will form their opinion based on the presentation/posts of the member not the number/color of squares attached.

Just get rid of it.  No matter how well intentioned the reason for installing it (but actually Bob said he didnt have an intention, just wanted to try it out), it is getting abused in that high school kind of way, don't promote that abuse by leaving a tool for that purpose in place.


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## Tgace

But the jocks and cheerleaders wouldnt like loosing their status just to be fair to the geeks would they?


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## Littledragon

Tgace said:
			
		

> I just find it very "high schoolish" in a popularity contest sort of way. Dosent really bother me much though.


I totally agree with you, either they like you or don't like you and that is the main factor while giving reputation to another member.


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## Tgace

what others are doing.....

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=62015
http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/archive/index.php/t-7967


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## mj-hi-yah

Tgace said:
			
		

> what others are doing.....
> 
> http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=62015
> http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/archive/index.php/t-7967


This is good stuff Tgace...very proactive of you, and I think a good idea presented here is to leave reputation in the hands of the ones in charge!


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## dearnis.com

I know for myself I try to leave feedback as well, and yes I sign it.  As a supporting member I have no interest in access to anything more.  It is another feature, kind of amusing, but nothing to take too seriously.


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## 7starmantis

dearnis.com said:
			
		

> It is another feature, kind of amusing, but nothing to take too seriously.


Exactly my thoughts!! It seems people are getting quite serious about a fun feature that isn't meant to be taken so hardcore seriously!

7sm


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## MA-Caver

Well, I'd still like to know who's been giving mine... some have been signed and I really appreciate that. I try to remember to sign all of mine. I think it would be nice to know who's being nice... err, yeah.  :uhyeah:


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## Littledragon

MACaver said:
			
		

> Well, I'd still like to know who's been giving mine... some have been signed and I really appreciate that. I try to remember to sign all of mine. I think it would be nice to know who's being nice... err, yeah. :uhyeah:


Ye same..


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## GAB

I think the reputation points are childish and not something that should be on the board at all. If someone has a problem and they have to tell the moderator, then that is the moderators job to moderate not to put a little mark for or against. 

I have been suspended and given red, gry and green. Tgace is right, it is a highschoolish type of thing but the problem is, it is not highschoolish it is elementaryschoolish, lets make them mind by depriving them of a brownie point. Or give them one and they will be good and lay down and take a nap.
I believe the Board is a good one, you make the rules and we go by them, if someone disagrees with another big deal. If the flame is to high then someone will get burned.

I see someone coming in and deleting something and then giving days off if they feel it is a correct procedure, what other thing have the moderators to do? 

When a moderator is visible then it should show. The invisible is also a childish item. 

When somebody is on the board that is just what it should show. If you are on a thread or watching, it should show.

Last but not least when some one says something anonymous because they are afraid to say it on the board, that is truly punk stuff, on a Martial arts board no less. LOL
Just my thoughts, Regards, Gary


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## Andrew Green

I got some mixed feelings on the reputatation thing as well, but overall I'd say it is a decent addition to the site.

Those that can influence it the most are those with the most.  Which would hopefully prevent people from giving and taking based on whether they liked or disliked the person and not based on the quality of there ideas.

Those in the red cannot influence anyone, so people that would do that should hopefully not be able to do much.

This is a large forum, and it helps give an idea on whether someone is worth responding too or not.  My observations have been that it is really not all that inaccurate as far as whos posts I want to read, and who's I don't.

As far as invisible mode goes, it does have it's uses and that is something that people should have the option of.  Would you prefer it just not show who is online at all?  Sometimes people have problems with other people and would really rather not have them following them everywhere they go, it's childish and annoying.  So I got no problem with people being invisible.

As for moderators, I think it is a good idea for them.  If you can always tell when a moderator is online you always know when to behave yourself, giving mods the element of suprise might help cut down on trolls and flames that might get posted if the person posting knows that no one will be around to delete it for a while.

Moderators also get to see everyone, so they can sit in the shadows and watch you if they need to, even if you are invisible


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## Sarah

How do you get/give reputation points??


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## bignick

click on the scales on each post...in the upper right corner of each post


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## GAB

Hi Andrew,

I have to say that you are mistaken regarding people who are in the red not being able to give good advice.

I have seen many of the better advice givers in the red at times, someone wants to disagree and then they use their influence or position to slam the  other. 
I say shame on the slammers, who have their own agenda, or don't like what the person said previously, or at the present. 
In Japan there is/was a saying "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down".  Petty come's to mind. Lack of free speech is another.

Can't we agree to disagree and occasionally say something that is not quite right without going down the tubes. Or better yet put the person on the avoid list and don't go there, if it is going to bother you so much.

Your assessment of red is not valid, I think someone who is always the goody goody, needs to be assessed, maybe they are just a political 
person.

We need Politicians, we also need Generals, we need Soldiers, more in the trench means more fighting, well, is not this the board of Martial Arts, do all warriors not fight with weapons? Swords or empty hands or the typewriter?

Maybe the persons who are always green don't post anything except I pat you on the back and you pat me, we are all in the same dojo so we are all good guys?  
Or they have a niche, followers, don't post outside of their Art don't disagree, Boring.

We have a two party system in this country and when it comes time to a vote we see it as a very narrow margin 2% or??? We still have differences of opinion, but we still should be able to state them without flaming on, or not?

The silent majority is 80% of the board and so in real life, the other 20% probably the split is 12%/08% Pro or Con, but when they meet it is 100% one way or the other, that is the job of the moderator. IMO...

Again when you don't like it, speak up, if you can't, that is sad.

A quote comes to mind...He that cannot reason is a fool, He that will not is a bigot, He that dare not is a slave. 

Many persons have been credited that statement. Andrew Carnegie for one.  

Regards, Gary

PS. I have been given 40 - points for my opinions on reputation points read my posts does that seem fair? I will probably get some more - points. Oh well...G


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## Sarah

I agree with you there GAB, but IMHO I think its the way in which people choose to give their opinion that counts. When someone is being aggressive or close-minded it can be really hard to understand where they are coming from, and have an open comverstaion where everyone gets to express themselves.


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## Flatlander

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi Andrew,
> 
> I have to say that you are mistaken regarding people who are in the red not being able to give good advice.


I think you may have misinterpreted the meaning of Andrew Green's post.  He said 





> Those in the red cannot influence anyone, so people that would do that should hopefully not be able to do much.


which makes no reference to these people's ability to give useful advice, rather, he is referencing their ability to influence others' reputation.  For example, right now, you cannot influence my reputation either positively or negatively, because your rep-count is negative.  The amount you CAN influence others' reputation is determined by how much positive reputation you have, how long you've been a member, and how many posts you have.

If you dislike the feature, you may disable it in your User CP.  Some have done this already.


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## Rob Broad

People that do not like the reputation system can disable it.  it is very simple to do.  Just go tot the User CP area, and click teh appropriate link.


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## Bob Hubbard

Small correction: Supporting members can disable it.  Regular members can not.

Some of the folks with lots o red-dots can be PITA's. Sometimes it's just how they express opinions that get them dinged.  Othertimes, it's petty BS, or politics, or scab picking.

One thing to remember is that all forum rules do apply in the rep system.  You can't call someone a "pus-brained festering gobhole" (or the equivilent) on the forums, and you can't do that there either.  If someone does, let an Admin know and we will take care of the situation.


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## Flatlander

> Small correction: Supporting members can disable it. Regular members can not.


Right. Sorry Kaith, my error there.


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## Rob Broad

Flatlander

I made the exact same mistake.


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## Flatlander

Canadians


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## Tgace

Ya make great beer though.


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## Andrew Green

As stated, I think it is more likely that you get dinged for HOW you express something rather then WHAT you are expressing.

I've blatently disagreed with people and then gotten positive checks from them for it.

As for conformity, see my sig line


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## Tgace

What I like/hate is that sometimes when old threads you got +/- rep-points get resurrected you get hit all over again by new people.....The gift that keeps giving/taking.


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## Flatlander

:rofl:  The perpetual possibilities......


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## GAB

Hi, Well thanks for the imput, I have not given anyone a good or a bad, I might send a PM or not, it would depend on the post.

We are working on human nature and unfortunatly, those that will say you are a ------ on a post and everyone who then reads it is much more honest then the one who writes you and calls you names that can not be said on the posts.

Just my thoughts, it is not a biggie, Thanks for the input, again. Regards,:idunno:  Gary


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## MA-Caver

Well, I'd like to be able to archive my rep points (if possible) because I've been pleased with the little notes that go along side of it. Is there a way to configure my User CP to show all of them. 
I kin unnerstand how it would take up a lot of space like for those who have a lot of them (Kaith and Tess come to mind), but I'd like to be able to reference them just the same.


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## Sarah

That would be really good if we could do that, I only figured out recently were they where, thanks to PPKO, so I dont know who gave me my first few points!





			
				MACaver said:
			
		

> Well, I'd like to be able to archive my rep points (if possible) because I've been pleased with the little notes that go along side of it. Is there a way to configure my User CP to show all of them.
> I kin unnerstand how it would take up a lot of space like for those who have a lot of them (Kaith and Tess come to mind), but I'd like to be able to reference them just the same.


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## Bob Hubbard

Not at the moment.  I'll see what I can do though.


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## gmunoz

Yeah, it seems that some negative rep points were given to me for reasons that are not explainable.  It appears that it's simply because someone may not approve of my sensei.  They left negative rep but no name or even a post.  Simply left it blank.  One moderator left negative rep and post that was flat out rude and confrontational.  Kinda sucks.  Like someone didn't like something I said but when I went back to the post they reference, it makes absolutely no sense to me - especially when they left no repuation post.  just a negative rep.  Weird. Is there anyway to get some of those deleted?


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## Bob Hubbard

If you believe someone is abusing the system, send an email to adminteam@martialtalk.com and politely state your concern.
Include your username, the date of the offensive 'rep' and the comment made.

We will investigate and take action if needed.

We don't require reasons when they use the rep system, however if we do insist that the coments made conform to our posted rules.


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## Cryozombie

gmunoz said:
			
		

> Yeah, it seems that some negative rep points were given to me for reasons that are not explainable. It appears that it's simply because someone may not approve of my sensei.


Funny.  I had the exact same thing happen because I study with the Bujinkan.




			
				gmunoz said:
			
		

> One moderator left negative rep and post that was flat out rude and confrontational. Kinda sucks. Like someone didn't like something I said but when I went back to the post they reference, it makes absolutely no sense to me - especially when they left no repuation post. just a negative rep. Weird. Is there anyway to get some of those deleted?


Weird.  I thought reputation was Anonymous.  How do you know who is leaving you rep points if they leave no Rep Post?


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## gmunoz

The moderator that put the negative post actually put their name to make sure I knew who was, IMO, being rude.But some didn't post. and the post they referenced saying they disagreed with really made no sense.  I hadn't even objected to anyone or disagreed with anything in the post they disagreed with.  Oh well.


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## Flatlander

If it is the case that you know who gave you the negative rep, why not send them a PM asking them what the issue was?  I'm certain that if they felt strongly enough to neg-rep you, they won't mind explaining their reasoning.

Just be sure to include a link to the post in question so that they know which one you are talking about.

Sometimes a little communication can go a long way.


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## Sarah

Well said Flatlander!


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## Bob Hubbard

One other point - If ANYONE believes a staff member has abused the rep-system, please contact both Seig and myself.  We will investigate the matter.


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## raedyn

Of course different board users will use the rep point system differently. Myself, I would have to be significantly moved by the content or the eloquence of the post in order to bother to affect the poster's rep. If down the road I got enough reputation to have a large effect on their rep, I would be even more careful with how I used it. That's just me. Any board user is free to use the system as they see fit, within the minimal limits the administration has placed on it.


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## Satt

Anyone wanna send me some good rep points??? Thanx!!! I'll take all I can get!!!


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## bignick

that my friend is shameless....


and why didn't i think of it?


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## GAB

bignick said:
			
		

> that my friend is shameless....
> 
> 
> and why didn't i think of it?


It is a great song also...

Regards, Gary


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## Satt

Ok I actually have a ligitimate question now. Ever since my shamless post about trying to get good rep points, I have got some green (good) and some red (bad), but what is the one GRAY one I got for???


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## Sarah

I think Grey can mean that the person giving the rep is in the red themselves or that thay havent got enough posts for there rep point to count.


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## Satt

Sarah said:
			
		

> I think Grey can mean that the person giving the rep is in the red themselves or that thay havent got enough posts for there rep point to count.


Oh ok thanks.


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## Sarah

Satt this thread may be of interest   http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13010&page=2&pp=10 

Here is something from it that will also answer some questions:

You gain 1 point of rep-altering power:
- per year of membership.
- per 1,000 posts
- per 100 reputation points you yourself have

You must have 50 posts b4 you can influence others reps

You must have at least 10 rep points b4 you can influence others.

You may only influence 10 people per 24 hr period

You have to influence 10 people b4 you can hit someone again.


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## Satt

Sarah said:
			
		

> You gain 1 point of rep-altering power:
> - per year of membership.
> - per 1,000 posts
> - per 100 reputation points you yourself have
> 
> You must have 50 posts b4 you can influence others reps
> 
> You must have at least 10 rep points b4 you can influence others.
> 
> You may only influence 10 people per 24 hr period
> 
> You have to influence 10 people b4 you can hit someone again.


 
Thanks Sarah. One day when I am a super de duper supporting moderator I will be hooking you up!!! LOL. Keep the good points commin'!!! %-}


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## Sarah

Satt said:
			
		

> Thanks Sarah. One day when I am a super de duper supporting moderator I will be hooking you up!!! LOL. Keep the good points commin'!!! %-}


oh, oh.....ummm.......do I wanna be hooked up??   LOL


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## Satt

I'm serious. I really do appreciate the info though.


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## Sarah

No Problem, we are all here to help!!  Any way I can help with my limited knowledge I will!   

 





			
				Satt said:
			
		

> I'm serious. I really do appreciate the info though.


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## gmunoz

Reputation is anonymous if the sender want's it to be.  Some choose to add their name on their rep given.


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## Michael Billings

That would be me.  I believe in saying to your face, what I frequently talk about behind your back ... or wait ... was that what I meant??  

 Now smilies are timing out ... I hate the new server hiccups

 -Michael


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## Andrew Green

Alright, got my first red, yep its annoying when there is no comment / reason, name, or even a reply in the thread...

But I am a **** disturber according to my title so what else can I expect.


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## Blooming Lotus

Satt said:
			
		

> Anyone wanna send me some good rep points??? Thanx!!! I'll take all I can get!!!


what's a rep point anyway and _why_ exactly did we want some???  :idunno:


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## Michael Billings

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> what's a rep point anyway and _why_ exactly did we want some???  :idunno:


 It is how your peers rate your posts.  There are good points and bad points.  See earlier in the thread to see who can give them and how often.  It depends on post count, and your own reputation.

 -Michael


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## Blooming Lotus

What does ????  Mei guanxi, I think I'll just head on over to that other thread and have a read  

cheers

Blooming Lotus


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## Blooming Lotus

just wanted to hollar to my fans and thank you all for taking the humble few points I had   

the price of infamey and own mindedness 

BL

Btw : to who ever asked/ commented about the bannings  from other forums,  it was more a personal thing me and a mod ( over pms spanning 14 mths )  which I'm not even going to try to go into here for his dignitys sake, so  please don't even TRY to make out that you have have a clue what you're talking about.  Thank you.


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## Blooming Lotus

Kaith:



What's the difference between a dark green square nxt to a comment vs a light green..is it influence points based on their own rep point tally???


btw : on "only hoping to improve"....  got it in one, and wear it gladly 

BL


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## Blooming Lotus

You call it sarcastic and rude, I call it truthfully frank and innocent ( as opposed to peeing in your pocket) . How do you expect me to react ????? Cry???  So ppl disagree......I think it's healthy.

cheers

btw : if you think you're beyond improvement, I think you're beyond help......... for now.......... I was being sincere 

and further to quote 7starmantis " your opinion of my is none of my business".

Ppl'll just think what they like............


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## Flatlander

Blooming Lotus said:
			
		

> You call it sarcastic and rude, I call it truthfully frank and innocent ( as opposed to peeing in your pocket) . How do you expect me to react ????? Cry???  So ppl disagree......I think it's healthy.
> 
> cheers
> 
> btw : if you think you're beyond improvement, I think you're beyond help......... for now.......... I was being sincere
> 
> and further to quote 7starmantis " your opinion of my is none of my business".
> 
> Ppl'll just think what they like............


Blooming Lotus, if you are displeased with the reputation system, you may be interested to note that supporting members are able to disable their reputation.

Otherwise, perhaps airing out or otherwise making public your reputation issues isn't really appropriate.  If you feel that somebody is abusing the reputation system, please PM a Supermod or Seig, and they will look into that for you.  :asian:


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## Bester

Info on Supporting memberships is here: http://www.martialtalk.com/premiummembership.shtml

It has nice perks. A get out of jail card is not one.
(Pity as I could have used one a lil bit ago.) :wavey:


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## Blooming Lotus

Point taken Flatlander and cheers.  I may just do that.



Blooming Lotus


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## pakua

I've had 5 reputation messages. Three were positive, and the senders gave their names. Two were negative and anonymous. That tells you something methinks.


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## MA-Caver

pakua said:
			
		

> I've had 5 reputation messages. Three were positive, and the senders gave their names. Two were negative and anonymous. That tells you something methinks.


Ya, it does. They can't tell you exactly why they didn't like your post nor at least identify themselves. As if you're going to retaliate or something stupid like that. I just gotten my first neg rep point myself and like you no comment as to WHY (at least that much eh?) nor identification.  :idunno: I kinda sorta know why but I'd like to know if I'm in tuned with it. Doesn't matter though either way. It's not worth making an issue out of it.


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## pakua

MACaver said:
			
		

> They can't tell you exactly why they didn't like your post nor at least identify themselves.



No they said _why_, just not _who_


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## MA-Caver

pakua said:
			
		

> No they said _why_, just not _who_


Lucky you .... at least half of the mystery is solved.. heh heh


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## Rob Broad

The reputation system is a neat novelty but I don't put much stock into it.  I only takes one misinterpreted statement and everyone is dinging you, usually with out giving a reason or there name.  I could care less if in giving the truth I upset a couple people, I am not going to change my stance on an issue just to go with the popular vote.  There have been many times when I disagree with a person, and gave them a positive rep point because they were articulate, and polite, and presented their case with logic and thought not brash statements, name calling, and the popular "so and So said it was this way"

I check my rep point when I get bored, and usually geta kick out of what I see.


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## Dronak

Yeah, I've seen this system on only a few other boards and I'm doubtful about how useful it is.  The ability to leave comments here is nice and something I don't remember seeing on other boards.  But it's usually too easy to alter someone's total, especially when it's low (either positive or negative).  And depending on exactly how you're allowed to give/take points, it's possible for one person holding a grudge to knock you down a lot.  Or similarly, someone could build you up, but I imagine that doesn't happen as often.  It's optional, of course, so there's no guarantee that any particular post of yours will be scored or by how many people.  So it's a very variable system.  It's certainly not all bad, points with comments can be nice feedback, but in general I think it's best viewed as a fun extra.  Don't get upset if your score is really low or go changing your views and posting style in an attempt to get more points.  I think after a while people will be able to tell how useful your posts are regardless of what your reputation score is.


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## Blooming Lotus

It's all fun and games and as long as those comments can't get us banned, go ahead and play and just get it off your chest !! Have you heard the one about Peter and Paul............. or the one about the ignore feature?????







it ( having low points ) _can't _really get us banned right?????:idunno:


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## Bob Hubbard

Only if you have more red dots than I have green dots. 

(Thats a joke)


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## OC Kid

I really wish the person would have to have their name with their comments. It would stop some folks from being so insulting. Its easy when the person your insulting doent know who you are.


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## Bob Hubbard

If the comments made are in violation of our standard rules, please let us know.  We will investigate them upon request.


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## GAB

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> It is how your peers rate your posts. There are good points and bad points. See earlier in the thread to see who can give them and how often. It depends on post count, and your own reputation.
> 
> -Michael


Michael,

What I have found: Persons giving out red, been moderators and administrators.

Some of the worst comments have come from them also, interesting.
When you get 20 at one time, it takes that someone special. 

I have also found out the ones giving the green have been moderators and peers.

Regards, Gary


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## Michael Billings

Gary,



> What I have found: Persons giving out red, been moderators and administrators.
> 
> Some of the worst comments have come from them also, interesting.
> When you get 20 at one time, it takes that someone special.
> 
> I have also found out the ones giving the green have been moderators and peers.
> 
> Regards, Gary


 Your statement above is just plain not true. I just reviewed your Rep Points since August. There are several from Mods or admins, but the majority of Rep points are not staff. I do see the good and bad from Admins and Mods, but also from other members. It is not out of proportion and I would not protect staff, but bring this up as an issue if it was true.

 I do not have any more ability than you do to edit Rep points and give a number to the same individual without giving whatever my minimum number is to other members .... the same as everyone else. I do understand why you are unhappy with the points given, but you may have lost some of the historical perspective since only the most recent are viewable by members.

  -Michael


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## Bob Hubbard

Gary,
  I just reviewed your rep.

14 rep hits between 9/28-11/28
5 were negative, 9 were positive
5 of the 14 were from staff.  3 negative, 2 positive.  

13 hits between 8/29-9/29
3 were negative, 10 were positive.
6 were from staff.  3 positive, 3 negative.

6 hits between 7/29-8/29
4 positive, 2 negative.
1 hit from staff - negative.

7 hits from 1/1-7/29
5 negative, 2 neutal
2 from staff, both negative.


totals
40 hits 1/1-11/28
15 negative, 25 positive/neutral
14 hits from staff - 9 negative, 5 positive.


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## GAB

Kaith and Michael,

I have got to go by what you say, since I am not privy to all. 

Thanks, I guess.

Regards, Gary


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## OC Kid

My comment wasnt about the negative comments on my rep points I can deal with that. I like the idea of rep points its fun and interesting.

I wanted it so the person giving a negtive rep point would have to post their name. So if something needed to be clarified in the original post I could do it and address the person making the comment. Thats all.


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## Dronak

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Gary,
> I just reviewed your rep. . . .
> 
> totals
> 40 hits 1/1-11/28
> 15 negative, 25 positive/neutral
> 14 hits from staff - 9 negative, 5 positive.



I don't know, maybe it's just me, but doesn't this support his idea that negative points tend to come from the staff?  Yes, you're getting both positive and negative points from both staff and users.  But within the staff's hits, more than half are negative, and within the total hits, more than half of the negative hits came from the staff.  *shrug*  I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just saying what I see in these numbers.

However, like I said before, this is such a variable system, that I do think it's a bit hard to derive real, hard facts from the results.  Not everyone will give points or in the same way (apparently the system here's a bit more complex than I've seen elsewhere) so different people will have different samples resulting in different stats.  FWIW, at the moment I've got 8 reputation hits, none with names, and only one with a comment.  So I don't know who has given me points or, in all but one case, why.  Not that it matters to me, I'm just giving it as another example case.


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## Cruentus

Since this thread is still active somewhat, here are 2 things that I think, and I have said them before:

#1. Some of you need to understand that there are reasons it is unwise to force people to sign their names when they give rep.;  it starts a "rep. war" and anamosity among members when negatives are given out, which contradicts the "friendly environment" we try to maintain here.

#2. Rep. points can be seen as positive/negative reward,,,behavioral psych. at work here. When you say something good...you get positives. Something bad...you get negatives. Staff tend to give out more negatives because they have to deal with the negative behavior to keep the board running well, so they are going to see more negative behavior and give more negatives when someone is doing something negative or wrong. I have gotten many positives and negatives in the past depending on my behavior...and my positives have outweighed the negatives. 

Now...like any system, this could be abused. If the abuse is excessive, then staff may be able to help you. All in all, though, the system has seemed to work pretty well so far, by my perception. However, if you don't like the positive/negative reward system, you always have the option to donate a few $$ to this wonderful board to become a premium member. As a premium member, you can disable your reputation point.

So, the solutions are simple as I see it...

Paul


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## Blooming Lotus

Is it just me or is this whole red / green colour combo feature I keep seeing on my ucp feeling all christmassy??   @at getting serious about it anyway. Can' t please all the ppl all the time I guess.

BL


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## Seig

Keep in mind, many times staff will use the rep system as a nudge to either encourage you or try to push you back on to the right path without having to make it official.


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## Blooming Lotus

Seig said:
			
		

> Keep in mind, many times staff will use the rep system as a nudge to either encourage you or try to push you back on to the right path without having to make it official.


and sometimes people will just abuse it because they can.

excuse me while I just go shoot myself in the foot some more


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## Bob Hubbard

Yes, people abuse it.

 But as we don't sit around surfing the rep system, unless someone contacts us to indicate a possible or obvious abuse, we don't know about it, and it remains unresolved.

 We can't fix what we don't know is broken......so,

 If there is a problem, let Seig and I know and we will investigate it.
 PM and/or EMAIL or use the Report to Mod feature and indicate an issue with your replisting.

 Posting it in a thread than neither of us may read will do you no good. We both actually read very little outside of the administration sections and the areas that interest us, unless there is a problem.


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## Blooming Lotus

Then again , unfortunately for the "real" input you could otherwise benifit from ( regardless of the nature of comment) ,  you could just acknowledge that abuse is a factor of such a system and take it with a grain of salt.  Can't please all of the ppl all of the time.  Criminys, If I listened and took heed to every negative thing said about me, I'd never get my head up, let alone have enough esteem left to study some or train like I have a reason to do so.  I have been trolled by the worst and meanest and constructive input is one thing, attempted railroading abuse and immature judgement a whole other thing altogether.   I appreciate a "good" bit of feedback at the worst of times, but when you're just looking for a band wagon to jump on or ride in on, I just don't have time.



Blooming Lotus


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