# Machida Karate??



## AriesKai (Dec 21, 2009)

Now _here_ is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!

It appears to be effective even in the street!


Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??


Pro's & Con's?


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## Omar B (Dec 22, 2009)

You mean Shotokan I think.


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Now _here_ is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!
> 
> It appears to be effective even in the street!
> 
> ...


 
As Omar said, he does Shotokan.  IIRC, there was an article about him in BB magazine.  Pretty interesting read.  Anyways....he seems to have just taken the traditional art, and made it MMA ready.  

I like him as a fighter and IMO, he has alot of success ahead of him.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Now _here_ is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!
> 
> It appears to be effective even in the street!
> 
> ...



Might you be referring to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Machida-Do-Karate-Mixed-Martial-4-DVD/dp/B001VED3FI

*



			Machida-Do Karate for Mixed Martial Arts
		
Click to expand...

*

I have no idea what's on the DVD, so I cannot say.  I am not sure he is promoting it as a new style of karate, but simply capitalizing on his name.

One thing appears certain in the professional MMA arena.  The climb to the top is long and uncertain.  The stay at the top is short.  The fall afterwards is precipitous.  Like most professional sports, there isn't much tapering off once a career is finished.  You have to stack up as much money as you can as quickly as you can and get out.

I wish him well.


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## Omar B (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Now _here_ is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!
> *It appears to be effective even in the street!*
> Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??
> Pro's & Con's?



In my haste earlier I missed that.  How do you know it's street effective when the little you've seen is undoubtedly in the ring?

And don't buy into the "Machinda Karate" thing, it's Shotokan.


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> In my haste earlier I missed that. How do you know it's street effective when the little you've seen is undoubtedly in the ring?
> 
> And don't buy into the "Machinda Karate" thing, it's Shotokan.


 


I'm going to keep this as "less-hasteful" as possible...

Well actually, since you obviously have not read my introduction to "Martial Talk", i've been studying martial arts for over 16 years, beginning with traditional JuJitsu and have been in the US Military.
Yes, hand to hand fighting is something that we must learn, even though most military systems are garbage compared to other things; but also keep in mind that us military guys get into a LOT, and I mean, A LOT of fights with each other, and with the locals getting angry and froggy because we either just stole their woman away from them or have all the women wanting us and not them.
I didn't get involved with the bar scene, but I do think that it is quite hilarious that these 'pros' try to get antsie before getting knocked on their *** and getting slammed under a bar-stool, before getting their 10-20 buddies involved, just before we get nearly our entire unit or unit supports involved. It's a game that the locals' have never been able to win.

I earned my 1st Dan in Jujitsu at age 16. I've never used it in the ring, and don't really plan on it either. With that being said, I've been practicing martial arts and fighting since I was 5 years old, and now have over 16 years of experience with it.
I don't know your life story, but i'm assuming that because of where your profile says that you live, you've been in some real street brawls yourself.
Well, I have as well. I haven't been in "500 fights" or nothin, but I do have my fair share. Believe me.
I've been in many street encounters (fights) where i'd only used the little I learned from Okinawan Karate, and the rest that i'd learned in Jujitsu, boxing, and judo and have not lost a fight by doing so.
I tried to forget all of that when I was in boxing, tried to use boxing-only, and got my *** handed to me by those smaller and those much, much bigger. Actually, when I was 15, I fought a 17 year old that was 6'5 and some-300lbs. Let's just say that because I used boxing-only, I should have gone to the hospital... but didn't.
Thankfully, what i've learned in EPAK, i've never had to use...

Again, I do resent that comment, as you really do not know my entire life story as I do not know anything about yours.

Sure, I competed in ring events when I was a teenager growing up; but it's not my bread and butter. Actually, growing up, my life consisted in backyard redneck fights where there were no rules (except for the old, "Just don't kill each other! speech". No police were there to get involved (the closest 'police officer' was about 5+ miles away). Getting the police involved was considered 'taboo' and if anyone would've done so, they would've been outcasted and picked on their entire child hood. Hell, the police from where I grew up, at the time, didn't really care about us 'being boys'! We actually had a club growing up called, "The Redneck Fire Club"; obviously a private fight club. Keep in mind that this wasn't just a 'white boys' club; this was a club for us kids of all races. We didn't care what color skin you had, as it's was and is still irrelavent to WHO YOU ARE.
Most of the kids involved were the kids around the block, and from our football teams. In fact, many of the ol'boys from the old "Redneck Fire Club" still gets together and dukes it out during drunken nights of sitting infront of the old fire pit. Keep in mind that we didn't even know about UFC or any other sports event when we were kids, except for professional boxing. We emulated the old timers from many different era's (that we knew about by watching what our fathers wanted to watch with only 1 TV in the house) from Lennox Lewis, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Evander Holifield, to watching old films from Jack Dempsy, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, and the liking. A lot of times we'd wear gloves, but of course, we were too poor to constantly afford a good pair of gloves (hell, barely running water for that matter), never had the proper protective equipment (such as headgear) except for the mouthpieces we'd get in football.
If we got kicked, we got kicked. If we got rabbit-punched, we got rabbit-punched. If we got head-butted, we got head-butted. If we got some teeth knocked out, or a bad cut.. well, you know the rest.
A lot of our fathers would actually watch us while drinking and would even bet on who would win with real cash. They'd even fight against each other over mere competition, or because of the fact that they were butt-hurt that their son lost. What a funny sight THAT was..
My father would actually whoop my *** given that I lost the fight, or especially if I refused to fight. It was non-negotiable.
When we were kids, if we lost a fight, we'd keep coming back for more until we finally won a victory; whether in the street or in the back yard, it didn't matter and we didn't care WHO you were. If you're Chuck Liddel, or Brock Lesnar, expect to get knocked out _eventually_. We're all the same way we used to be when we were kids, except for the fact that we're men today, and are far more 'laxed.
The biggest difference from then to now, is the fact that when we were growing up, 'the gloves' came off many, many times... I think i'll let you figure out what i'm saying.

I know for a fact that if I face someone on the street today that doesn't have at least the same amount of training and experience as I do and doesn't have the same aggressive drive and motivation in a fight (such as us poor boys do); I will hold my own in a fight. Also, take into account that I grew up in many bad areas (New York isn't the only place that has a HOOD), such as the projects, and was quite a very daring wild child. It's a wonder why I don't have a criminal record.

As I have learned that fighting is a last-resort thing, it's a reality that we all must face eventually. If you don't, then more power to you (really); but I would prefer to be better prepared for it.

Now back to the origional topic. In an attempt to correct everyone.. from what i've seen and heard; Machida has developed his own Karate system that has been approved by some japanese organization on Karate (I do forget the name), and is about to open up a school in Los Angeles (from what i've heard). Yes, it's based on the Shotokan system.
This could be me falling for false advertisement.. but what if it's not?
If not, i'm going to be studying under ANOTHER MMA Legend.
I've been very fortunate when it comes to training under legends and superstars. Some find that it's such a 'great deal'; but once you do it, it really isn't.
I've trained under the Gracies, under the Machado family, under Saekson Janjira, under Mark Hatmaker, Eddie Bravo, and have trained with Chuck Norris. Living in Dallas, Texas has plenty advantages  especially when you're in the Security/Law Enforcement field.

So the book that's out (Machida-Do) is only a gimmic to the real thing.
I'd accuse it as being simply, 'an advertisement'.



If anyone else has something to say, please provide some reason/justification and/or proof. :shrug:


Thanks!!


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> You mean Shotokan I think.


 

Before I found 'Machida Karate', I've been seriously contemplating on whether to begin training in Shotokan Karate.

If this 'Machida Karate' is only a 'hoax', then Shotokan is what I will begin practicing.

What is good about Shotokan Karate? What is good about the style of fighting? I know that it's not just a style of fighting, but is also a way of life. Perhaps it could be the 'way of life' for me.

I'm 21 years of age. To be truthful with you, in my young age, i've developed some anger problems that I would love more than anything to get rid of. I practice meditation in an attempt to battle this anger, but it seems that it only keeps coming back.
I'm constantly battling problems in life that is close-to-impossible to do on my own; but i'm doing it.

My biggest motivation for finding that perfect martial art or martial arts mix, is because I don't feel that I should be wasting my time or money on something that's not going to suffice in a real street encounter when it comes to battling an assailant trying to rob my wife and kids. I'm going to need to have something extremely useful, given that I don't have a gun at the ready. It's unrealistic and psychotic for someone to believe that they should be carrying a gun everywhere they go (unless it's job-related).
I also want to be able to pass this down to my children and make it a family tradition, as well as something that they can take and pass on in their legacy.
This includes, "I want to give to my children what I never had" and, "My children shouldn't have to grow up the way that I did".

Any reasons why I should or shouldn't study this martial art (without the haste)?


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2009)

As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida

Read fighting style.  Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created.  Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo.  Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate.  Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

MJS said:


> As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
> 
> Read fighting style. Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created. Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo. Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate. Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.


 
I see! You are right, it is the name that's caught my eye and attention!
Thank you, sir/ma'am!!
It looks like this is what I will be doing as well, then!


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

MJS said:


> As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
> 
> Read fighting style. Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created. Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo. Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate. Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.


 

Forgive me for being such a noob...
But what is it mixed with (other than Shotokan)? I can make my assumption that it's mixed with BJJ and Sumo... but I could be wrong.
Is this fighting style capable of being 'street-effective', in your opinion?
Any other opinions?


Thanks all!


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## Omar B (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I'm going to keep this as "less-hasteful" as possible...
> 
> Well actually, since you obviously have not read my introduction to "Martial Talk", i've been studying martial arts for over 16 years, beginning with traditional JuJitsu and have been in the US Military.
> Yes, hand to hand fighting is something that we must learn, even though most military systems are garbage compared to other things; but also keep in mind that us military guys get into a LOT, and I mean, A LOT of fights with each other, and with the locals getting angry and froggy because we either just stole their woman away from them or have all the women wanting us and not them.
> ...



Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing.  Anyways, it's you who said _even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!_


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing.


 
That's your personal opinion. In my opinion, I just explained to you that I have more experience than 'just the little experience that I have in the ring'.
Let's keep this as formal and respectful as possible, without insulting each other. I believe in keeping the peace on these forums. I like this place.



Omar B said:


> Anyways, it's you who said _even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!_


 
Compared to many, many other martial artists who have more than 20 years of experience, I have very little experience even in my 16+ years of practicing. I seek knowledge and guidance from those who have been practicing for many years longer than I have.

Respectfully, thank you for your input.:asian:


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing. Anyways, it's you who said _even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!_


 

Ahhh, I remember what you're referring to..



			
				AriesKai said:
			
		

> Now _here_ is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!


 

I was talking about "Machida Karate"; not martial arts, street-effectiveness, or ring fighting.

It's ok, just a misunderstanding!


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Forgive me for being such a noob...
> But what is it mixed with (other than Shotokan)? I can make my assumption that it's mixed with BJJ and Sumo... but I could be wrong.
> Is this fighting style capable of being 'street-effective', in your opinion?
> Any other opinions?
> ...


 
It says it right in the link I posted.   Here is what it says:



> Machida uses a unique style in MMA that combines elements from his diverse training background to make it as suitable for the sport as possible. It is based mainly on shotokan karate and brazilian jiu jitsu, but also has techniques from Wrestling and Sumo[14] which Machida says makes him "fully prepared for any situation" in the Octagon. Often described as "elusive," Machida relies on cautious and precise counter-striking that frustrates his opponents into making mistakes


 
I find it interesting that in many of your posts, you ask whether or not its street effective.  Let me say this...all arts have the potential to be street effective.  How they're trained is what makes the difference.


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

MJS said:


> It says it right in the link I posted.  Here is what it says:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that in many of your posts, you ask whether or not its street effective. Let me say this...all arts have the potential to be street effective. How they're trained is what makes the difference.


 


I see....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thank you very much!!! This point you have made truly helps a lot!!


I feel that I am looking for something that will help me tremendously on my standup game (perhaps Machida's version of Shotokan will help me) in both offense and defense, I need to work on more of my Judo and San Shou (takedown with defense), more weapon defense, and some more on my ground game.
If I can find something that will help me with that.. I will be absolutely set, as I continue to train.
Perhaps someone can help me find what i'm looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## Omar B (Dec 22, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Ahhh, I remember what you're referring to..
> I was talking about "Machida Karate"; not martial arts, street-effectiveness, or ring fighting.
> It's ok, just a misunderstanding!



What you are asking about it a much smaller subsection within a larger art.  To learn "Machida karate" you have to first learn Shotokan and then pare it away with an eye towards what Lyoto meant to do, which is fight in the ring.  MMA is broad in what can happen in the ring, so there are other things to consider as Lyoto did.


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> What you are asking about it a much smaller subsection within a larger art. To learn "Machida karate" you have to first learn Shotokan and then pare it away with an eye towards what Lyoto meant to do, which is fight in the ring. MMA is broad in what can happen in the ring, so there are other things to consider as Lyoto did.


 

I see. I really don't want to fight in the ring, even though I know I would do well.. I know I have the potential to become a great ring fighter.. but it's really not my interest.

You keep referring to 'the ring'. Do you personally feel that it ("Machida Karate") wouldn't be as effective in the street?
If not, what would (mixed with Shotokan, or simply Shotokan by itself)?

Thanks!


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## Omar B (Dec 22, 2009)

I didn't say that.  Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it.  I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works.  It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).

In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground.  In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete.  In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.  

There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that?  I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).
> 
> In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.


 
QFT!!!  I've been saying the same thing..that they're 1 in the same...somehow its being missed.  Oh well....

Anyways....can't disagree with anything that you said here.  Good post man! 

Mike


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## AriesKai (Dec 22, 2009)

Omar B said:


> I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).



So he took certain things from Shotokan that would be legal in the ring; but left the things that wouldn't out?



Omar B said:


> In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.


 
Definitely. The ring isn't the street, and it never could be. I'm still looking for a better stand up game that'll help me stay off the ground, but use the fact that the ground frckn hurts in real life. Being slammed down on gravel or pavement sucks.
I'm also looking for something that'll help with defending myself against opponents with weapons, or multiple attackers (with or without weapons).
I'm looking for something reality-based that's going to help me get myself and my family out of the worst case scenarios that DO happen.
Is Shotokan a good avenue? I've seen very, very little of it. One thing that i've seen out of a lot of Karate McDojo's, is the 'fancy dancy' Kata's and the, "Here, hold still while I kick your ***" moves.
I'm looking for something that's truly alive, that will help me with these worst case scenarios. My intentions isn't to 'kick ***', but are to 'get out of the situation by any means possible'.



Omar B said:


> There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.


 
I'm not interested in being in the ring by any means. I'm just looking for something that'll help me fight against even the fiercest of opponents, whether it a single thug with or without a weapon or multiple thugs with or without weapons.


I could care less about these opponents well-being, as they wouldn't mine or my family's either. I'm looking to disable my opponent, or even kill him, so he can no longer attack or harm myself, my family, or anyone else for that matter (if I can help it).

So maybe "Machida Karate" isn't the way for me after all..


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## Telfer (Dec 22, 2009)

Ive looked at a few of his fights...there doesnt appear to be anything of Karate there. 

Just the usual kickboxing/wrestling.


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## Tez3 (Dec 23, 2009)

If you don't use Shotokan you can as easily use Wado Ryu karate and I'm sure there's others here who know other karate styles equally effective if trained properly.
It's common for people to think karate isn't used in MMA, it is, quite often actually along with many other styles.

Don't knock kata either look up Iain Abernethy's site, you will learn a great deal about defending yourself. If he had the time he'd be a mean MMA fighter himself but he's excellent as SD and from him you can learn what karate really is.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/


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## ATC (Dec 23, 2009)

The one thing that everyone is forgetting is, regardless of his style (it is mostly Shotokan by the way) is that Machida has been doing his art since the age of *2**.* Now I know most of you may think so what, but that make a big difference. Someone that starts at 15 or even older as many in MMA have done, will be hard pressed to get as good at a TMA art as someone that started at 2.

His body has been growing and developing along with his art so his muscle memory is beyond anything some 20 year old can develop in 10 years, let alone a few years then get into the ring.

Machida is a classic TMA fighter in the ring. He relies so much on timing and distance as do other but he is far above most everyone else. His distance management is off the charts. Distance management is single most thing that is so hard to teach. Boxers work on this the most. In BJJ and wrestling and any grapple art you try to close the distance by any means so you don't work on striking distance as much.

So by being a Shotokan Karate master and his BJJ background he is as complete a fighter as you can get. He did not learn a hybrid style but rather learned two classic styles and is able to use either when needed. A true Mixed Martial Artist.


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## xJOHNx (Dec 24, 2009)

As said before. It's not the style that is going to win your fight, it's your added flavour that will be decisive.

You keep asking about arts being street effective, but in your life story you state that you have X years of experience in different arts and X years of backyard bare knuckled fighting. Then you should know a bit about SD by now, no?

Bottomline: don't believe every hype and don't look up to hard. Otherwise you'll forget to strive to such a level.


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## MJS (Dec 24, 2009)

ATC said:


> The one thing that everyone is forgetting is, regardless of his style (it is mostly Shotokan by the way) is that Machida has been doing his art since the age of *2**.* Now I know most of you may think so what, but that make a big difference. Someone that starts at 15 or even older as many in MMA have done, will be hard pressed to get as good at a TMA art as someone that started at 2.
> 
> His body has been growing and developing along with his art so his muscle memory is beyond anything some 20 year old can develop in 10 years, let alone a few years then get into the ring.
> 
> ...


 
Good points.  Regarding the underlined part....yes, another good point, but it'd be interesting to know if his training at 2, was like you see today, with the dojos filled with 2yr olds running around like they were on a playground.  See, IMO, thats the #1 difference between then and now...back then the BS game playing probably wasn't allowed.  If I had to wager a guess, given the quality of fighter that he is today, I'd be inclined to say that his training was taken much more seriously.


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## MJS (Dec 24, 2009)

xJOHNx said:


> As said before. It's not the style that is going to win your fight, it's your added flavour that will be decisive.
> 
> You keep asking about arts being street effective, but in your life story you state that you have X years of experience in different arts and X years of backyard bare knuckled fighting. Then you should know a bit about SD by now, no?
> 
> Bottomline: don't believe every hype and don't look up to hard. Otherwise you'll forget to strive to such a level.


 
With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style.  Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.


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## ATC (Dec 24, 2009)

MJS said:


> Good points. Regarding the underlined part....yes, another good point, but it'd be interesting to know if his training at 2, was like you see today, with the dojos filled with 2yr olds running around like they were on a playground. See, IMO, thats the #1 difference between then and now...back then the BS game playing probably wasn't allowed. If I had to wager a guess, given the quality of fighter that he is today, I'd be inclined to say that his training was taken much more seriously.


I would have to agree with you. He most likely came up old school. Training was taken very seriously.


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

MJS said:


> With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style.  Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.





I won't argue with you. I'm not sure whether to take offense to this as it somewhat publicly downgrades my demeanor; but perhaps I'm looking for something that actually works for me, but really have no idea on where to start.
Again, i've 'started' in many different gyms/dojos/studios, but staying _1 dimensional_ is the quickest way to lose a fight, IMO.
If I train only on boxing, the second I get taken to the ground or rammed against a brick wall, and then get taken to the ground, I'm going to lose that fight if I don't know how to defend myself against it.

What i'm looking for is a well-rounded martial art, or a few martial arts styles that will work in self defense. I've searched extensively, but I can find nothing except for military style systems like, HaganaH.
I think HaganaH is a good system; but is it _really_ all that good?


I've been looking more on EDPAK and am thinking, "Maybe that's the one for me?" but I still don't know. I don't want to put my time and effort into something that's not going to _work for me_.


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

MJS said:


> With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style.  Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.





In the _real world_, I have been very poor and grew up in the projects where if you have a new pair of converse and are a white kid walking around in the wrong neighborhood, you're going to get jumped, beaten, and your shoes will be taken by the biggest and strongest kid (the "Deebo").
I've gotten my *** kicked quite a few times because I had a nice watch, was in the wrong neighborhood, or was hanging around the wrong person.
In the last year and a half, I have been chronically homeless over 5 times, have no real family (worthless father, dying mother/cancer), have been into real situations where I absolutely _had_ to apply self defense, and know what will work and what is complete ********. Thankfully, i've only had to fight those who were either moderately or poorly trained, or had no real training at all.
I'm still alive and well today and while i'm still _young_, i'm _wise_ and have gone through things that many of those who are even 40 years old have not. Perhaps that is why I argue with those that I do not know.
You never know who's at the other end of these computer systems.

I can sit here and say, "I'm a 10th Dan and am 35 years old!" when in reality, I'm only a 15 year old kid with no real training or experience except for YouTube and google searching.




Thanks,
Aries Kai


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> real situations where I absolutely _had_ to apply self defense, and know what will work and what is complete ********.



I apologize... 

Complete BS.*


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

MJS said:


> creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.





By the way.. before I forget...

That is exactly what "MMA" is all about.
_"Mixed Martial Arts, A mixture of martial arts wrapped into one single system or style."_
In fact, that is what "Martial Arts" is all about... hoping that a "jumble of stuff will actually work".

The things that I apply have worked for me. I have not lost one _real_ fight since I was 16, and don't really plan on it, which is why I am seeking some more training. I hope to seek some better training that will help me redefine my skills and will also help me perfect my own technique _for me_.


I do my best to respect everyone in this forum and will remain as respectful and as formal as possible.

I'm not here to prove anything; but am here to seek help from the professionals.
If I am wrong in any of my methods, tell me how, why, and what I can do to do something better.
That's what _practicing_ is all about.




Best Regards,
Aries Kai


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

Also, before I forget!

Merry Christmas to ALL and have a Happy New Year!!!




All the Best,
Shawn


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## AriesKai (Dec 24, 2009)

MJS said:


> With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style.  Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.





Tell that to Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Chuck Norris.

Bruce Lee openly admitted that he developed Jeet Kune Do at age 27, _was a young kid with a big heart, and a true desire to train, argued with many, many old martial artists who had been training a lot longer, created a mish-mash of things in hopes that his jumble of stuff will actually work_, _applied them, and was very, very successful._
Someone previously had stated that one's age and experience does not matter, as we can all learn something from someone no matter their age or experience.
This is true, as Bruce Lee had 14 years of experience before he openly admitted that he designed his own system (Jeet Kune Do).
Actually, Bruce started teaching Jun Fan Gung Fu in 1959.
There were Grand Masters that were ages 60 and up that argued with Bruce about his systems, but his system has been proven to be _very_ effective.
Many did not agree with him or his philosophies; but yet, he was successful anyways!

I do believe that Bruce Lee was a legend known for his proficiency in the Martial Arts, not something anyone here at Martial Talk can say (no offense).
Bruce Lee officially opened his system (JKD) to others when he was 27 years old, only 5-6 years older than I am today.

Jackie Chan, the only one to beat Bruce Lee (in a tournament) studied _many_ different martial arts and bundled them together as well.
These include:
Under Grand Master Leung Ting he trained in Wing Chun, (Bruce Lee also studied this) as well as Tong Long, Bak Mei, Northern Shaolin Kung Fu
Hapkido, Boxing, Judo, Taekwondo and Hei Long.

Jackie's personal style is a mixture of Wing Chun, Hapkido and Judo.


Chuck Norris also developed his own martial art, "Chun Kuk Do", a system that integrates Tae Kwon Do, BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, and Shotokan.

As far as I know, Jackie Chan began his training at age 6.
Bruce Lee began his training at age 13.
As for Chuck Norris, I'm not too sure, but next time I see him again, i'll be sure to ask.

I started at age 5 (very similar to the both Bruce and Jackie, and many other martial arts legends).

As far as these individuals street-effectiveness, even in their mixture of styles, they're in no doubt, bar-none.
You get these three together (given that Bruce was alive today), you wouldn't find anyone that would win them over (unless it were 20+ men with chains and baseball bats, or guns).


If I remain 1, 2, or even 3 dimensional in the martial arts and do not train in many or a few different styles, weeding out the things that are irrelevant while keeping the things that will help my flower bloom; then i'm going to have flaws in my system that will be countered by another systems techniques.
Yes, If I try to become a master at all these styles of martial arts, then I will be destroying my flower with weeds that will kill it. That is not my goal.
My goal is to become perfectly well-rounded with my own system that works for me by training in a number of martial arts, using certain techniques that will work for me.

One thing that one of my old instructors had told me was,
_"Think of your own system as a cup of water. Keep filling this cup of water until it overflows. Make sure as you overflow your cup, keep everything that will help you, but make sure that the overflowing water is all of the things that won't help you."

_Water is the softest, most versatile thing that consistently keeps it's perfect form, that has the most strength of all things on this planet.
Without water, we cannot live.
Without water, nothing on this green earth can live.
Irrelevant? I think not.
If my water is polluted with things that my body does not need, it may only harm me. If my water is nothing but pure and is good, then it will keep me alive. Still following?

I've seen plenty of replies and posts that basically say that training in all of these different styles is a waste of time, and/or isn't effective as "they're all different", ect.

Tell that to the real pro's who've _done_ it.



I argue _with_ the facts, not _against_ them.

There's no point in contradicting this post, as there is no sufficient evidence that will work against what I just said.


END RANT.


Thank you and Best Regards



-Aries Kai


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## jks9199 (Dec 24, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> There's no point in contradicting this post, as there is no sufficient evidence that will work against what I just said.



It might help if your facts were correct...

What tournament did Bruce Lee ever fight in?  My understanding is that the only competition he's documented as doing was for dancing...  Bruce Lee was incredibly talented, and awesomely hard working -- but there's very little direct documentation about his actual ability to fight.

Jackie Chan is an actor.  He's talented and very skilled, but looking to him for information on real violence makes as much sense as asking the cook at Mcdonalds about fine dining.

Chuck Norris is also an actor, who made his name first on the tournament circuit.  He's done lots of good things, and I think he's honestly tried to develop a rounded approach -- but he also has little real experience with violence himself.

You're picking three actors, and you seem to be mistaking the world of movie violence with real violence.

You're right though -- there's no arguing with you, because you don't want to listen.  You want some sort of easy answer that just doesn't exist.  And it's clear you've already made up your mind, anyway, and just want some sort of agreement or confirmation.  (By the way, I've been training longer than you've been alive.  I'm working cop, though I'll openly admit that I'm not in the roughest and toughest of areas.)

Let me strongly suggest some reading for you (in no particular order):
Dave Grossman:
*On Killing
On Combat

*Forrest Morgan:*Living the Martial Way: A Manual For the Modern Warrior*

Rory Miller*:*
*Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts & Real World Violence*

Gavin De Becker:*
The Gift of Fear*

Kenneth R. Murray:*
Training at the Speed of Life*


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> It might help if your facts were correct...



Tell me where I am wrong, correct me. _SHOW_ me. Be my guest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







jks9199 said:


> Bruce Lee was incredibly talented, and awesomely hard working -- but there's very little direct documentation about his actual ability to fight.





jks9199 said:


> You're picking three actors, and you seem to be mistaking the world of movie violence with real violence.



So IGNORANCE CALLS! You're saying that Bruce Lee didn't have an ability to fight? The man literally tortured himself! He designed his own machine that would shock the p*ss out of him if he wasn't fast enough on his strikes. I have every way to back up MY argument. Do you?
Bruce Lee was much more than an "actor", he was a true martial artist.
AGAIN, he started training in WING CHUN at age 13.
The only _real _reason Bruce Lee was introduced into _Hollywood_ is because of _Ed Parker, _and if you don't know who _that_ is, he designed the "Ed Parker's American Kenpo" system_.
_Insult his system, and you're doing just as good as lighting a fuse of TNT on this forum.
So argue with that, McSensei. I don't know who you are, where you come from, or what you've done; and personally, if you're not a moderator on this forum, then I could care less, with _all due respect._

Chuck Norris, another _real_ martial artist, has been training and has been tournament fighting _long_ before he was an actor. Just check out his bio.

Jackie Chan, not proficient in _real violence_??? Do you know the first thing about his martial arts training?
As I've listed, he's trained in _many_ different styles, including Wing Chun, Tong Long, Bak Mei, Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, Hapkido, Boxing, Judo, Taekwondo, and Hei Long.. Just because he's an actor, doesn't mean that he couldn't kick both of our ***'s.

You're saying that these three 'actors' were not professional, very skilled, masters of the martial arts?
I think you saying _that_ is like saying fish evolved into monkeys, and the "Chupacabra" evolved into Chewbacca.
What _you're_ doing, is comparing what you've _seen_ to what the _real facts_ are. Your interpretation on these martial artists are images from _movies.
_You want to see how effective they are in real life? Go see for yourself.

Want another one?? How about Jet Li? Jet Li is also a Wushu Champion, not just an actor. Your point is extremely biased, as is your contradiction.
The only reason you can't contradict me, is because I am RIGHT.
I'm not? Prove it.

What you apparently fail to realize is that, These three actors had lives even before you knew about them. Two of them _still _have lives _today._


I used to think that Jackie Chan was about as skilled in fighting as a monkey fighting for a banana; but my perceptions have changed tremendously. I still don't like him as an actor, by any means. In my opinion, the man isn't even funny; but he _is_ a very skilled martial artist.

Perhaps my argument about the "Bruce Lee vs Jackie Chan" was actually debatable, due to the fact that I cannot find it anywhere over the _internet._





jks9199 said:


> You're right though -- there's no arguing with you, because you don't want to listen.  You want some sort of easy answer that just doesn't exist.  And it's clear you've already made up your mind, anyway, and just want some sort of agreement or confirmation.


I won't _'listen'_ because there's nothing to _listen_ to! I'm not getting any answers, and yes, there is always an answer, you of little faith.
The only answers that i've recieved are _opinions_ rather than _facts_!
Once I start getting some real explanations on these _ideas_, _then_ i'll start listening. I'm looking for the perfect system or mix of arts for me.
It's possible, as many, many others in the MA world are still doing it.
Perhaps an agreement would be nice, but not everyone has to agree, and as I know this, an agreement by someone that i've never seen apply any sort of system would be useless.
If someone says, "I think you should try Kenpo because......" then I would start listening. If someone said to me, "I think you're looking for Ninjutsu because...." perhaps I would start listening!
Very few people have given me examples of the different martial arts styles and systems. Because of this, I keep knocking on the door, hoping for the right answer. If you're not the one, _start leading, start following, or get the flip outta the way._
I've got plenty of time to study and practice. I'm under no time restrictions. My wife is an RN, and I am a student under no internship at the moment. We live under our means, so it all works out.
The only thing I do on my spare time is train and volunteer at the local animal shelter(prison). I've got all the time in the world to study and practice for quite awhile.



jks9199 said:


> (By the way, I've been training longer than you've been alive.



Edwin Dewees and Vitor Belfort got into the Octagon (UFC) at very young ages. Are you saying that because of your "longer years of training" that it makes you any better than them? Hell Dan Lauzon is around my age, and he started at age 18!
Take Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr, and Mike Tyson for instance. I guarantee all of these fighters are exceptionally good in the ring, and in the street.
Age and 'years of experience' obviously doesn't mean a damn thing. It does? Show me. Give me good examples.
These are _professional fighters_ who do this for a _living_.
There are many other fighters that would mop both of us up off our ego-trips in seconds that are just as young as me, or younger.
I take your comment as discriminatory, very rude, and irrelevant.



jks9199 said:


> I'm working cop, though I'll openly admit that I'm not in the roughest and toughest of areas.)


My stepfather was a cop, SWAT, and county SRT for over 20 years. He's retired now. The man has also mastered the art of Tae Kwon Do, are you about to say that TKD is ineffective?



jks9199 said:


> Let me strongly suggest some reading for you (in no particular order):
> Dave Grossman:
> *On Killing
> On Combat
> ...



I will check these out; but as for you, I personally feel that you should back up what you say before you insult others (such as famous actors known and accredited for their abilities), including myself.
Just a _formal_ and _respectable_ thought...


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai, this is because you invited me to look here, remember...

Okay, here we go. This is going to cover the last three pages, by the way, I'd settle in for a while...

Right, your first post mentions Machida's approach to Karate as "*It appears to be effective even in the street!*" Now, this has been detailed quite well, but you haven't answered why you think it appears effective for the street? By all accounts, you have only seen it in training (clips, articles, pictures) or being used in the ring? Street and ring are two completely different animals.

Your second post in this thread, which I'm not going to quote in it's entirety, but begins with the phrase "*I'm going to keep this as "less-hasteful" as possible...*" is just plain out of context. It was an answer to Omar, in which you take offense that he hasn't paid exteme attention to every post you have made (not everyone checks other posters histories, you know. I do to get an idea of who I am dealing with, but that's me), and then give your entire resume. That speaks volumes about you, and it frankly is not positive, but I'll cover that in more detail later. But really, it's not going to put you in good stead with people here, Omar could very easily have far more experience than you, so realise that, okay? Take what you are answered for what it is, there are a fair few misinterpretations on your part that you are blaming on others.

Okay, the next I'm going to go through in detail. Ready?

*(Originally posted by AriesKai) Before I found 'Machida Karate', I've been seriously contemplating on whether to begin training in Shotokan Karate.

If this 'Machida Karate' is only a 'hoax', then Shotokan is what I will begin practicing.*

No, it's not a "hoax", it is Machida's use of Shotokan, developed from many years of training in the system. Think of it more like a different instructor teaching the same art, it gives it a slightly different flavour. Okay?

*What is good about Shotokan Karate? What is good about the style of fighting? I know that it's not just a style of fighting, but is also a way of life. Perhaps it could be the 'way of life' for me.
*
This type of question can't really be answered. I can give you an idea as to what the philosophical and technical characteristics of the art, but as to whether they make it "good" or "bad" is up to the individual. From a technical standpoint, Shotokan tends towards linear actions, deep stances, strong definate actions, and little in the way of evasive or retreating actons. Is that good? Well, depends on the person (how they have trained it, how experienced they are), and the situation. I personally wouldn't like to rely on karate in group situations, as the primary philosophy is to stand your ground, and against a group that can be highly dangerous.

But what your question does tell me is that you are consciously unsure of everything you have ever done. And that means that you will be unconsciously unsure as well. You are always looking for the "most powerful, the strongest", that elusive magic bullet, or magic combination of bullets, that will make you unbeatable. And the sad thing is, the more you do that, the further it will get from you, as you are taking yourself further and further from what will actually get you skilled and confident. Again, we'll delve a little further later.

*I'm 21 years of age. To be truthful with you, in my young age, i've developed some anger problems that I would love more than anything to get rid of. I practice meditation in an attempt to battle this anger, but it seems that it only keeps coming back.
I'm constantly battling problems in life that is close-to-impossible to do on my own; but i'm doing it.

*You have anger issues, well I'm not really shocked based on your posting. In terms of "meditation", what exactly are you doing? Most people have no idea of exactly how to meditate to get a result, so it could very easily be having no more effect than a placebo, which isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but isn't a solution either. And as to problems which you are battling, which are close-to-impossible to deal with by yourself, get a support network if you cn't handle it alone. See a counsellor, get friends around you, turn to colleagues, go to free clinics, but get a support network. Otherwise nothing will change.

*My biggest motivation for finding that perfect martial art or martial arts mix, is because I don't feel that I should be wasting my time or money on something that's not going to suffice in a real street encounter when it comes to battling an assailant trying to rob my wife and kids. I'm going to need to have something extremely useful, given that I don't have a gun at the ready. It's unrealistic and psychotic for someone to believe that they should be carrying a gun everywhere they go (unless it's job-related).
I also want to be able to pass this down to my children and make it a family tradition, as well as something that they can take and pass on in their legacy.
This includes, "I want to give to my children what I never had" and, "My children shouldn't have to grow up the way that I did".*

There is no perfect martial art. There is no perfect mix. You can stop looking now, it doesn't exist. Okay? Good. What you are describing could very easily be covered by a single art, if taught well, trained properly, and done realistically. But it is not the art, it is the other factors mentioned. If something that can be relied on in the street is your highest priority, then pick one solid school/teacher and go with them. End of story. Oh, and your comments about "wasting money and time", well, that is what will stop you getting anywhere. Look at the result, and stop thinking about what you could be missing out on, it will stop you getting what is in front of you!

As to having something that you can pass down to your kids, forget that idea. If that is your aim, you may have to deal with the very real possibility that you won't have kids who are interested at all, let alone a wife who is. So if you are going to train, train for you, no-one else will care the way you do. And even if they are interested, who says they will value what you have come up with? Forget that idea, it'll only lead to disappointment and take you in the wrong direction again.

I said I'm going to deal with the ppsychology later, and I will, but first I'm just going to address this. The idea of "I'm going to come up with something and pass it down to my kids as a family art" comes from martial arts fantasy, movies, imaginings, and has nothing to do with the reality. Get your head out of the fantasy, it's holding you back on all levels. More later.

*Any reasons why I should or shouldn't study this martial art (without the haste)? *

No, no reasons you should study it. And no reasons you shouldn't. Any reasons would be yours, either for or against, but first I would ask if it is available to you where you are. If it is, visit them, and find out. If it isn't, what is the point of this?

You then go on in the next couple of posts to say you will be developing your own system a la Larry Tatum (in MJS's example). No, that is not what you will be doing, Larry has developed his own approach to a single art, you are wanting to bring a whole bunch of disparate things together. Not the same thing. Then we get back to "street effective", asking if this style is "capable" of being street effective. As everyone said, it is how it is trained, so forget the idea of this art being street effective, and this one not. Okay?

From here you start to introduce a new phrase in your posts, stand up "game". This is a term from MMA, and has no place in your questions about street. You're getting the ring and the street confused (internally), which is leading to a lot of your confusion. I'm going to recommend that you remove that phrase from your vocabulary, as it goes against your stated desires.

Okay, another long bit...

Originally Posted by *Omar B* 

 
_I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before)._

*So he took certain things from Shotokan that would be legal in the ring; but left the things that wouldn't out?*

No, he adapted his solidly trained art to a new environnment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Omar B* 

 
_In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions._

*Definitely. The ring isn't the street, and it never could be. I'm still looking for a better stand up game that'll help me stay off the ground, but use the fact that the ground frckn hurts in real life. Being slammed down on gravel or pavement sucks.
I'm also looking for something that'll help with defending myself against opponents with weapons, or multiple attackers (with or without weapons).
I'm looking for something reality-based that's going to help me get myself and my family out of the worst case scenarios that DO happen.
Is Shotokan a good avenue? I've seen very, very little of it. One thing that i've seen out of a lot of Karate McDojo's, is the 'fancy dancy' Kata's and the, "Here, hold still while I kick your ***" moves.
I'm looking for something that's truly alive, that will help me with these worst case scenarios. My intentions isn't to 'kick ***', but are to 'get out of the situation by any means possible'.
*
So here you are consciously agreeing with what has been stated, but are still not listening to what is being said. If you want an RBSD system, go to an RBSD system. TMA are not going to suit you. But honestly, I think youwill be better off in a TMA system, as that is the image you have in your head, and a true RBSD system just won't look like the martial arts you are expecting. Seriously, check out what is around you, visit them, talk with the instructors, BE PREPARED TO LEARN WHICH MEANS ALLOWING THE INSTRUCTOR TO TELL YOU THINGS THAT GO AGAINST WHAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY LEARNT, and make a decision. But the whole cross training thing isn't going to be the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Omar B* 

 
_There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different._

*I'm not interested in being in the ring by any means. I'm just looking for something that'll help me fight against even the fiercest of opponents, whether it a single thug with or without a weapon or multiple thugs with or without weapons.


I could care less about these opponents well-being, as they wouldn't mine or my family's either. I'm looking to disable my opponent, or even kill him, so he can no longer attack or harm myself, my family, or anyone else for that matter (if I can help it).

So maybe "Machida Karate" isn't the way for me after all.. *

If you aren't looking at ring sports at all, stop looking to them for your answers. And as for the idea of disabling or even killing your opponent, seriously, what are you thinking here? That type of thought leads to jail. Bad idea. Check out self defence laws in your area, might help.

*Again, i've 'started' in many different gyms/dojos/studios, but staying 1 dimensional is the quickest way to lose a fight, IMO.
If I train only on boxing, the second I get taken to the ground or rammed against a brick wall, and then get taken to the ground, I'm going to lose that fight if I don't know how to defend myself against it.*

Staying one dimensional is actually how a lot of street fighters and predators generate the success they have. By knowing that no matter what, this right hand will knock you out, the street fighter just hits you. And then they win. Martial artists tend to want many different methods and techniques, which is the "art" side of things, and they're great, but frankly, if I'm going to get you street effective to go and, let's say, work with gangs, I'm going to seriously limit what I teach you. At most, you will have half a dozen things that I will teach you, and those will just be seriously drilled over and over again. But movies teach us that we need magical techniques, and MMA competition show us we need mulitiple skill sets to fight well and successfully. Unfortunately, neither of these have much to do with the street, and are teaching you false ideas. Most street fighters don't really have much skill, so having a great takedown defence isnt actually that important, unless you are in competition.

*By the way.. before I forget...

That is exactly what "MMA" is all about.
"Mixed Martial Arts, A mixture of martial arts wrapped into one single system or style."
In fact, that is what "Martial Arts" is all about... hoping that a "jumble of stuff will actually work".*

No, it isn't. A basic overview of MMA is as follows: In the beginning of the UFC, it was art vs art, but because the event was set up around being a very grappler friendly environment, grapplers won. Consistently. So all the strikers started to get a little concerned, and started learning grappling so they could incorporate it into their existing base arts. As time went on, the strikers, now that they could stop a lot of the grapplers offensive arsenal, found themselves on the top. So the grapplers started to learn striking. In the end, as would be expected within a competitive environment, those with the most well-rounded skill set had the most consistent success. And as it progressed, MMA became a distinct system in and of itself (by the way, MMA is probably a bad term itself. It really isn't "mixed martial arts", it's multi ranged combative themed sports), and as such has it's own core philosophy that it follows (revolving around generating success in a competitive environment). That makes it a congruent system, not a "mish-mash of things, in hope that the jumble will work".

Ha, I was about to address your post on the acting personalities, but JKS has beaten me to it! So yeah, what he said! Now to the promised psychology. I recognise that you may not really be ready to hear this, but this also may help you a bit.

Your posts tell a story. The story they tell is of a person who is rather insecure, to be honest. That is in your habit of giving a full resume at every opportunity, which is really a way of seeking our approval or validation. But you do have a bit of ego there, as well. This comes across in a few of your posts to Omar here, as well as your wish to not hear from "the peanut gallery", or anyone with less training experience than yourself, in your intro. You are trying to set yourself up as experienced and knowledgable, and at the same time are saying that you need us to answer your questions as you don't have that much experience(?). As I said, insecure (in your experience, which honestly doesn't sound like much of real substance from the way you've described it) combined with ego (deciding who is worth listening to without knowing what they have to offer). Lose the ego, and recognise the worth of what others can give you. Even if you are the most experienced person here in a particular system, there will be a beginner in another that can teach you an awful lot.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

Okay dude, bad call.



AriesKai said:


> Tell me where I am wrong, correct me. _SHOW_ me. Be my guest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

I won't reply to ALL of this...


Yes, I have applied true meditation techniques, that i've learned in Tai Chi under my past Shaolin Kung Fu instructor.
I didn't like Shaolin Kung Fu because I felt that it belonged to the "fantasy" and "mystical" BS side of the martial arts world.
No, I can't stand the "fantasy side". You misinterpreted that indeed.
I know you meant no harm by saying this, but I feel offended that you actually interpreted that from me.

I will tell you that i've looked heavily into RBSD systems and thought to myself, _"These look very effective, like they'll actually work!!"
_I looked heavily into the SPEAR system by Tony Blauer and the HaganaH system as well.
I actually trained a little bit in the SPEAR and HaganaH systems, and _loved_ them... But i'll tell you what happend..
I researched a little more on the net about these systems and found that many experienced martial artists have said many negative things about these systems, that they just don't work.
I questioned why, and they said many, many different things that actually made sense. Why? Because i'm really not all that experienced, truthfully.
Yes, I will openly admit that, all ego aside.

Again, one thing you said about the "fantasy side" of the martial arts....
I can't stand that side of martial arts, actually. That side of martial arts is what I thought many of the users on this forum was confused with.
I wanted to pass down my training and experience to my children, as Lyoto's father did to him. I wanted to make it a part of raising my children, whether they liked it or not.
Reasons? Discipline, life experiences and lessons, and the ability to defend themselves and each other. Is there anything wrong with that? I don't really think so.
Traditional Martial Arts alone, to me, is very one sided, one dimensional, and in my opinion, they just won't work against someone who is very well rounded. Perhaps i'm wrong? I would really like to know, and why.

Reality Based Self Defense systems, i've found, are the best for me because one thing i've found is that they naturally flow with the bodies capabilities. It's easy and doesn't take "hours in the horse stance" (an unnatural stance for the human body), or "long hours of kata's".
You can learn them, train with them, and go about your business with new skills. I've found that many, many people think that they are very ineffective and really won't work. These people apparently have many years of experience in the martial arts.
This has discouraged me to train in them, and is why i'm currently on here (Martial Talk) looking for the right answers.

I've also found that... If Tony Blauer and others have developed their own RBSD's... then why can't I? I know I can.
What i'm looking for is either approval in what i've explained for my arsenal, or disapproval with explanations.


What I would put into my own RBSD:
 
*#1) Negotiation tactics. In my opinion, if you can get out of a situation without someone getting messed up, you've already won.

*_ This is after you've applied the negotiation tactics, or is where someone attacks you without any verbal dialogue._
*
#2) Stand up defense against punches and kicks.

#3) Stand up defense against weapons

#4) Stand up offensive striking tactics; punches kicks.

#5) Stand up grappling/restraint/takedown tactics.
This is to completely immobilize your opponent so you can either restrain/detain him, or to hinder their ability to attack. It's much harder to attack someone while you're laying flat on your stomache.
This will also give you the head start when you decide to run for your escape.

#6) Stand up defense against takedowns/grappling.
This is for those who go to the local dojo who teach grappling tactics. Sometimes the fight can get very close quarters (i.e. a bus, or a train). Takedown and grappling defense is something that must be applied in every system.

#7) Restraint tactics with and without Pressure Point Control Tactics.

#8) Ground fighting tactics. Almost all fights end up on the ground, that is a FACT. One thing that I've always been faced with on the street, is the big/same size guy bullrushing you and taking you to the ground. After that, they get on top and pound your face in.
Say you do get taken down, what do you do? That is a reality that you must face. Get the hell back up on your feet. If you don't know how to do this, you're going to be a sitting duck and are going to lose.

#9) Weapons offensive techniques. How the hell can you defend against a weapon, if you don't know how to use it? This will also help you tremendously against those multiple attackers. I personally carry a foldout knife in my dominant hand/pocket specifically for this reason.

#10) Escape and evasive tactics. The best way to win a fight, is not to get in one. If you evade a fight before it happens by constantly being aware of what's around you, you've done a very good thing.
If you're attacked by multiple people, the best way to get out alive, is to get out as quick as possible. There's no point in taking on 10 attackers at once; that's for the movies.


*If you can find me a system that incorporates all of these same types of techniques, tell me and I will start training for it.
As far as I know, Jeet Kune Do and Ninjutsu are the only one's that I may like. I've considered Ninjutsu, but I don't know what it can offer me and don't know where to begin to look for the right school.


Counting on the fact that 'predators' have no real training, or little/moderate amount of training is probably the quickest way to end up 6 feet under. You _never_ know who you're facing, or how good they are.
I could be facing a guy who's received some training under a guy such as YOU, or anyone else!


Am I starting to make sense to anyone?


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Chris Parker,


Thank you for your tips and warnings.

I can not learn anything unless it is thoroughly explained to me in fine details.
If I do not argue with you as hard as I can, and if you don't argue back with good explanations, then how do I know you're just blowing smoke up my tail?
If I don't debate with you debating me back, then I don't learn a damn thing.
I do apologize for seeming so disrespectful, as a good man would.
As for my disrespect to the previous moderator, I do apologize, respectfully.


Perhaps I am truly confused about many things. As I said before, I came here for guidance and wisdom/experience, not a big loop of "find it out yourself". Again, if I don't argue, then I won't get what i'm looking for out of you. I'm looking for, "This is why you wouldn't/shouldn't do this" and "This is why you _should_ do _that_".

Also, I don't know what's out there, so I can't _look_ if I don't know _what to look for._
I've tired myself out trying to look for the right style of martial art, or system for me.

I gave you an example of what I want, it's your choice to go with it and help me find it. With everything that I explained, I would _like_ for you to give me a translation (a style of martial arts, or system) of the words that I gave to you (the arsenal or curriculum of techniques and styles).


I'm so confused, my mind is continuously racing on: _go here, go here, go there, go there, ect._


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

Be offended. You were meant to get an emotional responce from my words, and you did. If you are thrilled, upset, offended, or validated by my words doesn't matter to me, so if you are offended, great! But your posting shows fantasy filling your head, and that is all there is to it. Believe me, I've seen plenty of students and others who are similarly filled, and you show all the hallmarks. Even if it is just your daydream imaginings, it is still fantasy. As to passing it on to your kids, I stand by what I said. You are going to train them even if they don't want to, and think that'll instill discipline? No, it'll instill resentment. Force them and they'll hate you, give them reasons to love it and they'll happily go along. Again, you're doing this for you, with your values, not theirs.

But go into your mediative practices a little more. I'll show you what I mean, in my schools our mediations are guided visualisation exercises with specific goals in mind, and are based on Eriksonian and Analytical Hypnotherapy and NLP. My first school (karate) also "taught" meditation, which consisted of basically being told to sit in a certain posture with our hands held a certain way, and then being told to "meditate". No guidance, no explanation, just sit there and be quiet! Not so productive. And that is actually the more common way it is taught, especially in Eastern arts and cultures, where you are expected to simply do what you are told, and to not ask questions. So people do what they have been told without understanding it, or knowing why things are done (my instructor could never explain why our hands were held the way they were...).

As to RBSD systems, they are often best thought of as supplementary systems, as they assume a established skill level. They are not there to teach techniques, they are designed around teaching principles which can be adapted to any art, and are focused on surviving an assault. They may have a "technique", such as Tony's SPEAR concept (jam and strike), Richard Dmitri's Shredder (clawing to the face), Crazy Monkey Boxing's unique cover, Deane Lawlers R-SULT covering strike (similar to Tony's SPEAR, actually), but these are simply concepts given a form. The idea is that they are taught to people who are already trained in a martial art of some form, not that they are complete systems themselves.

Arts such as Krav Maga (or HaganaH or others) are heavily based in a martial art, and the training methods sets them out as semi-RBSD systems. For example, Krav Maga is based on Shotokan, originally, and was developed into a military system for the Israeli Army, leading to new training methods and appraoches to deal with the environment they were facing (which is not the same as a modern Western city street, by the way). But they will get you more well-rounded, as well as dealing with the far more important concepts of adrenaline training and pressure testing. In terms of RBSD, check out Iain Abernathy (karate), Geoff Thompson (karate), and others. Note that these guys have very serious backgrounds in established TMA systems, and that allows them to develop their RBSD systems (that would answer your question as to why them and not you, basically because they have the experience and requisite training behind them).

TMA training by itself is as useful or useless as modern arts, depending on how it is taught and trained. I think this has been covered enough in the lasy few days though, yeah? Tell me if you want to go through it again, but I would look to the "Street effectiveness" thread... Horse stance training is designed for very specific reasons, including strengthening your legs, building endurance and the ability to withstand discomfort/pain, and more. Repetitive training, whether it is stance training, drilling combinations, pressure testing, kata, or anything else, is essential. If you get "bored" doing kata, or can't see the benefits of horse stance training, you're missing the point, and maybe a different approach would suit you better.

You will get neither approval nor disapproval for your list, you will only get feedback and advice. We have no need or desire to approve or disapprove. If you want to do such a mix, go for it. It won't help you the way you think, but hey, go for it. We're just not that involved. We don't care what you do, as we're not the ones doing it, but if you ask what we think we will tell you.  

Your list there of what you want, well, all of that is in my schools, actually. Plus more, so you know. But something with that amount of depth will not be a RBSD system, it will be a complete martial art. RBSD training principles can be used (I use them myself in my training, and use them to teach as well), but it is not an RBSD system.

Oh, and before others jump in, NO, that whole "most fights go to the ground" thing has been debunked so many times it's ridiculous. The study was from LEOs whose primary tactic was to take the other guy to the ground so they could cuff them, the figure was between 60 and 90% (dependingon who you asked), the BJJ guys got hold of it years ago to justify their approach. Most fights that go to the ground are because someone slips. Then they get up again. Then they slip again. That's if it lasts that long.

And finally, in regard to "counting on the street fighter/predator not having much training", well, I don't think that makes them less dangerous. They have experience at hurting people, they know that they can do it, they know how they can do it, they have done it before, and have no problem doing it again. They are completely commited to hurting you, and that makes them dangerous. But they are not going to be BJJ Black Belts. They wouldn't last in a BJJ school, frankly.


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Be offended. You were meant to get an emotional responce from my words, and you did. If you are thrilled, upset, offended, or validated by my words doesn't matter to me, so if you are offended, great! But your posting shows fantasy filling your head, and that is all there is to it. Believe me, I've seen plenty of students and others who are similarly filled, and you show all the hallmarks. Even if it is just your daydream imaginings, it is still fantasy. As to passing it on to your kids, I stand by what I said. You are going to train them even if they don't want to, and think that'll instill discipline? No, it'll instill resentment. Force them and they'll hate you, give them reasons to love it and they'll happily go along. Again, you're doing this for you, with your values, not theirs.
> 
> But go into your mediative practices a little more. I'll show you what I mean, in my schools our mediations are guided visualisation exercises with specific goals in mind, and are based on Eriksonian and Analytical Hypnotherapy and NLP. My first school (karate) also "taught" meditation, which consisted of basically being told to sit in a certain posture with our hands held a certain way, and then being told to "meditate". No guidance, no explanation, just sit there and be quiet! Not so productive. And that is actually the more common way it is taught, especially in Eastern arts and cultures, where you are expected to simply do what you are told, and to not ask questions. So people do what they have been told without understanding it, or knowing why things are done (my instructor could never explain why our hands were held the way they were...).
> 
> ...




Jesus Holy Christ, Thank You!
This is everything that I needed to hear!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





As for this part:




Chris Parker said:


> Be offended. You were meant to get an emotional responce from my words, and you did. If you are thrilled, upset, offended, or validated by my words doesn't matter to me, so if you are offended, great! But your posting shows fantasy filling your head, and that is all there is to it. Believe me, I've seen plenty of students and others who are similarly filled, and you show all the hallmarks. Even if it is just your daydream imaginings, it is still fantasy.



I'm not sure if that was your way of proving to me that these forums are also filled with _trolls_ or is your way of showing me that these forums are filled with people who simply don't care what approach they give; but I'll take those little comments with a grain of sand.

My head is filled with confusing thoughts, due to what I've seen and have been told in the past.

Chris Parker, Let me tell you quickly that I put it on all of my dead family members graves that here in America, most of your enemies will try to take you to the ground and pulverize you (mainly because they don't want to play the, "Who's a better boxer" game). I've been in many, many fights where my opponent tried to bullrush me, spear me to the ground, get on top, and pound my face in.
The techniques that many of them use are what's taught in high school wrestling programs, and in American Football.

So what you said about the "Most fights get taken to the ground" was false in my experiences.
I've only seen 2 fights in my life where the fight _wasn't_ taken to the ground.

As for what's taught in your schools, I would love to know what style you're teaching.

I'm doing the best I can to find what's right for me.

You, sir, are seriously helping more than you know.
For that, I thank you; but let's keep this as friendly as possible?
Perhaps one day after I train, I can thank you and throw flowers at your feet for being such a great influence on my training, and on my life.

As you play the devils advocate, you teach me things that I NEED to know.

Thanks!!! :asian:


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

No problem. As to why I said for you to realise that no-one cares, what I meant by that is that no-one has the same emotional and personal investment in your questions here that you do. We are not affected by whether or not you take our advice or not, if you get injured, killed, locked up, or simply become a highly skilled and confident martial artist who finds that they have no reason to fight. So our answers are going to be removed from the emotional place your questions could come from. Does that make sense?

As for my school, check my signature.


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## xJOHNx (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style.  Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.



My apologies for my harshness. It was not my intention to add another page to this topic.
I just had a question for AriesKai, but didn't get an answer.
Maybe I expect too much from someone who is 1st dan in Ju Jutsu to actually know a bit about what works and what doesn't.

I have no interrest in starting a verbal war, I just had a question for the Arieskai. 

Merry Christmas, Yule or what you call it to everyone.


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

xJOHNx said:


> My apologies for my harshness. It was not my intention to add another page to this topic.
> I just had a question for AriesKai, but didn't get an answer.
> Maybe I expect too much from someone who is 1st dan in Ju Jutsu to actually know a bit about what works and what doesn't.
> 
> ...


 

You are expecting too much. Even at 1st Dan, I've still been confused. Perhaps it is because I no longer practice Jujutsu? I haven't practiced traditional Jujutsu in about 5 years. Question answered? Good.
You won't get any _troll _response from me, buddy.
You've got the wrong guy. Go to another forum for that crap.
This isn't the place.



Best Regards,
Your Maker


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

xJOHNx said:


> My apologies for my harshness. It was not my intention to add another page to this topic.
> I just had a question for AriesKai, but didn't get an answer.
> Maybe I expect too much from someone who is 1st dan in Ju Jutsu to actually know a bit about what works and what doesn't.
> 
> ...


 


By the way.
If you've got a real question, perhaps I have a real answer.
That's what _Private Messaging_ is for.
Emberrassing or publically harassing someone (_trolling_) is probably the quickest way to get bounced off of this forum, or so I've found out the hard way.
You're bound to get a negative response and begin a verbal war in the forums.
These forums are quite too professional and formal for that.
It's not a game in the sandbox, this is where grown men come to talk about Martial Arts.

Glad to be of help :asian:


PS: Just because you have experience in "bare knuckled fighting" in the back yard as a kid, doesn't mean you can kick everybody's ***, or know the 1st thing about Martial Arts OR self defense. Bare knuckled fighting isn't a martial art, it's more or less, a sport. Again, if you actually _read_ the post, we mainly used gloves.
Just because you have a 1st Dan in one style, doesn't mean you've got it all. I may be 1st Dan in Jujutsu, but that doesn't mean I have what it takes to take Chris Parker.. Which is why i'm now going to be studying Ninjutsu. This thread, for me, is dead. At this point, only replying will be a necro.
Laters.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

Careful, Aries, I didn't see anything in xJOHNx's post that required your answer. That could be taken as rather inflamatory from you, and that's not what you want. Right?

Basically, he is saying that he expects a Shodan to have an understanding of their own system, and I'd agree to a degree. Not complete knowledge, but some familiarity. Whether or not that is going to be understanding of SD is another question though, so if you didn't want to answer, you didn't have to.

But I don't think that was harrassment. I just think xJOHNx was surprised to see what happened after his post as he has just signed in again. Cool?


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Careful, Aries, I didn't see anything in xJOHNx's post that required your answer. That could be taken as rather inflamatory from you, and that's not what you want. Right?
> 
> Basically, he is saying that he expects a Shodan to have an understanding of their own system, and I'd agree to a degree. Not complete knowledge, but some familiarity. Whether or not that is going to be understanding of SD is another question though, so if you didn't want to answer, you didn't have to.
> 
> But I don't think that was harrassment. I just think xJOHNx was surprised to see what happened after his post as he has just signed in again. Cool?


 

Ah, ok. I see.
Yes, of course I have a good understanding and am quite familiar... but i'm still just not satisfied. Dear, it seems that i'm _never_ satisfied; but again, I haven't trained or really practiced in TJJ in over 5 years.
Like I said, i'm not happy, which is why i'm fixing that very soon.

Thank you all, and I reiterate what I said before about "this post being dead".

I'm done with it.

Thanks!



Best Regards,
Aries Kai


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## xJOHNx (Dec 25, 2009)

Thank you Chris, 
that was all that I wanted to add to this thread, while answering MJS his reply on my post.


And Aries, there is no bad blood between us.
You just listed stuff you had experience in and I wanted to ask why you felt that wasn't enough. Or where the training did not suffice in your opinion. Given that you publically anounced everything, I didn't see the need for a private message. Because most of the times, I gain insight by answering questions more, than by just getting the answers to questions.

And yes I expect alot from other people, especially people who have a black belt. That's the way I've started my training long ago and still continue to train.

xJx


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## Tez3 (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> By the way.
> If you've got a real question, perhaps I have a real answer.
> That's what _Private Messaging_ is for.
> Emberrassing or publically harassing someone (_trolling_) is probably the quickest way to get bounced off of this forum, *or so I've found out the* *hard way.*
> ...


 

1. You've been here before under another user name?
2. Men? women aren't considered as martial artists then?
3. a necro?

No one is trolling on this thread, what are coming out are thoughtful, insightful answers.


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> 1. You've been here before under another user name?
> 2. Men? women aren't considered as martial artists then?
> 3. a necro?
> 
> No one is trolling on this thread, what are coming out are thoughtful, insightful answers.


 


Since you are a moderator, I will reply to these questions.

1. No, i've Never been here under another name. If you want my full, real name, than I will give it to you via PM, as well as my e-mail address.
I'm sure you can get that yourself, as a moderator...
I wouldn't have any reason to change my name. I've been using this alias for quite a while...... Actually, I came here after being trolled to death by the guru's at bullshido.net; all because I was a noob (still am).

2. Sorry if I offended you. Of course women can be martial artists, I have a wife, i'm definitely not gay and if I were sexist then I obviously wouldn't be able to keep my wife around....

3. A necro.. you know.. waking up a dead thread.


I'd honestly like to kill this thread, or at least uninclude myself in this topic. As you probably have yet to tell, I am a good guy; I just have some things to learn (obviously).
I have been helped, as I have learned the few things that I need to learn to begin a new style of martial arts that fits _me._

Thank you all!!!


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2009)

Aries. Tez in NOT a moderator. The banners in our name-plate show what level we are, Tez and I are Mentors, JKS is a Moderator. And as for deciding that this is a "dead" thread, I'm afraid that is not up to you. You started this thread, but if people still want to post and answer, they will. You need to let go of any emotional attachment, you don't control the thread.

However, if you want to remove yourself from getting notifications, in the top banner (where the search function I mentioned to you is) is another button called "User CP", or user control panel. That will list your current threads, and you can select to "Unsubscribe" to this (or any) thread.


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Aries. Tez in NOT a moderator. The banners in our name-plate show what level we are, Tez and I are Mentors, JKS is a Moderator. And as for deciding that this is a "dead" thread, I'm afraid that is not up to you. You started this thread, but if people still want to post and answer, they will. You need to let go of any emotional attachment, you don't control the thread.
> 
> However, if you want to remove yourself from getting notifications, in the top banner (where the search function I mentioned to you is) is another button called "User CP", or user control panel. That will list your current threads, and you can select to "Unsubscribe" to this (or any) thread.


 

Alright. Again, My Apologies Sincerely............


Thanks.



Aries Kai


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## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I won't argue with you. I'm not sure whether to take offense to this as it somewhat publicly downgrades my demeanor; but perhaps I'm looking for something that actually works for me, but really have no idea on where to start.
> Again, i've 'started' in many different gyms/dojos/studios, but staying _1 dimensional_ is the quickest way to lose a fight, IMO.
> If I train only on boxing, the second I get taken to the ground or rammed against a brick wall, and then get taken to the ground, I'm going to lose that fight if I don't know how to defend myself against it.
> 
> ...


 
Bro, 

Take my comments anyway you like.  No offense intended, but at times, I grow tired of sugar coating things for people, and telling them the things they WANT to hear, rather than the truth.  

What surprises me, is that its taking you 16yrs, as you state, to come to the understanding that maybe, you're not doing what you really want?  ****, that would take me a heck of alot less time, but anyways...

You constantly ask what is street effective, and I've told you repeatedly, that ANYTHING can be, but it comes down to how each person trains it.  

As for downgrading you....well, be it as it may, I'm trying to be honest with you here.  You have a long list of things you trained in, talk about all the fights you've been in, talk all the time about 16yrs of training, and you're asking questions like this?  Let me ask you....did your 16yrs of training help you with what you've done?  If so, then what is the issue?  If not, well, again, I wouldn't be waiting 16yrs to figure out what failed me.


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## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> In the _real world_, I have been very poor and grew up in the projects where if you have a new pair of converse and are a white kid walking around in the wrong neighborhood, you're going to get jumped, beaten, and your shoes will be taken by the biggest and strongest kid (the "Deebo").
> I've gotten my *** kicked quite a few times because I had a nice watch, was in the wrong neighborhood, or was hanging around the wrong person.
> In the last year and a half, I have been chronically homeless over 5 times, have no real family (worthless father, dying mother/cancer), have been into real situations where I absolutely _had_ to apply self defense, and know what will work and what is complete ********. Thankfully, i've only had to fight those who were either moderately or poorly trained, or had no real training at all.
> I'm still alive and well today and while i'm still _young_, i'm _wise_ and have gone through things that many of those who are even 40 years old have not. Perhaps that is why I argue with those that I do not know.
> ...


 
Again, why has it taken 16yrs to see this?  As for who is sitting behind the computer...you're correct sir, however, I can assure you, there are many here who do have that knowledge.  As for myself...all my training can be backed up by my teachers.  20+yrs of training.  Apparently what I do and what my teachers do, works, otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this to you, whoever you may be.  

Sit down, figure out what type of training YOU need, ask questions, be humble and stop arguing with everyone that offers you suggestions.  Ask questions, but dont be a jerk about it.  Not saying you are, just sayin'.  

As for your living situation...dont know what to tell ya, other than to maybe not wear the expensive watch, fancy shoes, mind your business, and avoid trouble.


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## Tez3 (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't think you have to be defensive about not being gay!

In fact really you know no one has to be defensive about anything. I was just asking a question based on something you said thats all, I don't need to know your name.

I let slide something before but as people who know me here will have known it's been nibbling at the edges of my brain and as I'm having a leisurely day I'll take time to post.

You seem to have an odd idea of MMA, that it's a hodge-podge of things that you hope will work ( regular readers can switch off, go and make a cuppa lol, they've heard this before).
The older MMA fighters mostly come from a background of one style they have mastered often karate or TKD they will then train in a ground style. In the UK this is mostly Judo or BJJ, in the States it could also be wrestling as there's a traditional of high school/freestyle wrestling we don't have. It can happen too that a ground specialist will take a standup style. That's often Muay Thai though again it can be karate/TKD/boxing. Younger fighters are coming in now and are training MMA as a whole which means their standup and groundwork is seamless, a good trait to have.

MMA fighters, ours are no exception, train hard and will use anything from any style that works for them, they will go to the best of any style to be trained. They never, ever hope for the best. What is best for them is dependant on their body size, strength and flexibility. It's no good saying high kicks are no good in the cage/ring when they clearly are for someone who can do them well, I can't so don't do them, there's no point me doing them and hoping for the best. I concentrate on what I'm good at as do other fighters. 

On the day of the fight both fighters will have known who they are fighting for a long while, they will know their opponents style and the way they fight, the tactics will have been decided and the training geared to that. Machida is a good example of this, what he does isn't chance, it's training, tactics and brain power as much as any physical prowess.

We've also been over many times how fighters react to violence outside the competitive stage. We train SD differently from the way we train MMA, there is a huge crossover of course. Techniques used in the competition can easily be adapted to use outside. My instructor is well used to violence and fighting, he was a soldier for 22 years, he's a doorman in a rough area as well as having done the doors in London with people that I can only describe as dodgy! He was also a close protection officer in the army something he still does. He's trained with Geoff Thompson an excellent proponant of SD, google him, his books, videos and seminars may well be the best around.

I've known several MMA fighters here who have also had fights out on the street, a couple even start them lol. Fighting outside doesn't need the finesse you need in competition. Iain Abernethy ( google him too) told us that his first repsonse is to punch an attacker, he's strong and stocky he says so it suits him to go for a KO first, his Bunkai techniques he'll use if he hasn't been able to do that. His SD techniques btw are very very good. 

The 'all fights go to the floor' argument is an old one, the best advice though is to try never to go to the ground. Smaller people may have little choice but you really, really don't want to be there.

The reason people here say go out and see what fits you best is because it's hard to know what to recommend to someone you don't know. Take a karate style, my instructor is BB in Shotokan, it suits him, he's tall and strong, Shotokan has deeper stances suitable for long legs. I do Wado Ryu, more suitable for shorter people like myself as it has shorter stances. I've done some TKD, didn't suit me as I can't do high kicks at any speed. Tang Soo Do is a mixture of both these styles and suits us both. It's not that any of these styles is better than the other but you have to look at whats best for you. One of our fighters base styles is JKD, he says it suits him because he has very strong but short legs, his kicks are very powerful.

Absolutely find the style that suits you. It's the way you train in it that will make you a fighter not just the style.


----------



## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> By the way.. before I forget...
> 
> That is exactly what "MMA" is all about.
> _"Mixed Martial Arts, A mixture of martial arts wrapped into one single system or style."_
> In fact, that is what "Martial Arts" is all about... hoping that a "jumble of stuff will actually work".


 
WRONG!  Did you read what I said?  If not, read it again!  I said, a mishmash of things tossed together.  That is NOT what MMA is.  You're not trying to creat Frankenstein here dude, you're putting things together that work, not just a little of this, a bit of that, pop it in the over, and pray it works.  Is that what you think MMA is?  Is that what you think that martial arts are?  I'm staring to think that you're trolling and wasting everybodies time here dude, and if thats the case, I suggest you stop, before your time here is cut short, and trolling is frowned upon.  

You think that Ed Parker just threw things together hoping they'd work?  He put things together alright, but what he did works!  Its been tested and continues to be.  Its like a puzzle...you dont just put the pieces together any old way do you??  



> The things that I apply have worked for me. I have not lost one _real_ fight since I was 16, and don't really plan on it, which is why I am seeking some more training. I hope to seek some better training that will help me redefine my skills and will also help me perfect my own technique _for me_.


 
So, all the times you got your *** kicked were prior to that?  Just going on what you said in another post.  So, if so, and you avent lost a fight since then, figure out what you did wrong.




> I do my best to respect everyone in this forum and will remain as respectful and as formal as possible.
> 
> I'm not here to prove anything; but am here to seek help from the professionals.
> If I am wrong in any of my methods, tell me how, why, and what I can do to do something better.
> ...


 
Bro, I'm starting to doubt that.  One minute you're saying you want help from the pros here, and in the next, you're telling me that you doubt people because you dont know who's on the other end of the computer.  WTF??  You either want help or you dont.


----------



## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Tell that to Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Chuck Norris.
> 
> Bruce Lee openly admitted that he developed Jeet Kune Do at age 27, _was a young kid with a big heart, and a true desire to train, argued with many, many old martial artists who had been training a lot longer, created a mish-mash of things in hopes that his jumble of stuff will actually work_, _applied them, and was very, very successful._
> Someone previously had stated that one's age and experience does not matter, as we can all learn something from someone no matter their age or experience.
> ...


 

Ok, I'm still starting to believe that you're here to troll.  I addressed this in my last post to you.  If you think all those people just tossed stuff together with no rhyme or reason behind it, you're crazy.  There is a HUGE difference between tossing **** together hoping it works, and putting things together in a scientific way, to make sure they work.  If you cant see that, then you've really wasted 16yrs, as you claim.


----------



## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

xJOHNx said:


> My apologies for my harshness. It was not my intention to add another page to this topic.
> I just had a question for AriesKai, but didn't get an answer.
> Maybe I expect too much from someone who is 1st dan in Ju Jutsu to actually know a bit about what works and what doesn't.
> 
> ...


 
Bro,

What I said was not directed at you.   I was just pointing out that this person sounds exactly like this other member that was here, under the name Destroyer Style.  He was a typical young kid, 21 I think, who thought that he could make his own style, that it was some super thing, etc., argued all the time with those that tried to help him, never listened...just like this guy is doing.  

No harm bro. 

Have a nice Christmas. 

Mike


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I don't think you have to be defensive about not being gay!
> 
> The 'all fights go to the floor' argument is an old one, the best advice though is to try never to go to the ground. Smaller people may have little choice but you really, really don't want to be there.


 
Nah, no offense taken.

Not _all_ fights go to the ground... but many, many do. Almost all of the one's that i've seen.
Since i'm not a very small guy (6'1/225lbs); going to the ground isn't a very bad thing for me, unless i'm facing a black belt in BJJ, or unless i'm raking myself against gravel.. You know... Even though, being on the ground has many, many disadvantages on the street. I think everyone knows, or should know _that._
I'd much rather be on my feet than on the ground in _any_ street brawl.

Thanks for all the advice. I definitely agree with you about "choosing the style that compliments my body type and physical abilities".
I still have a hard time doing high kicks, but I think it is something that can definitely be worked on.
I'm tall, have a strong build, but can obtain flexibility, my body can change quickly from big to slender as well as adapt very quickly to the type of training that i'm enduring.

Thanks again!
Sorry if you felt any signs of disrespect.


----------



## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> By the way.
> If you've got a real question, perhaps I have a real answer.
> That's what _Private Messaging_ is for.
> Emberrassing or publically harassing someone (_trolling_) is probably the quickest way to get bounced off of this forum, or so I've found out the hard way.
> ...


 
Thank you for confirming my thoughts.  

1) You come here to start trouble.

2) You admit because you're not getting the answers YOU want, that you're now leaving the thread and anything else will be necro.

Did you read the forum rules YOU agreed to upon joining?  If not, read them!

Oh, BTW, I'm going to make sure this thread is looked at.  My troll and BS meter are off the charts right now.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Bro,
> 
> What I said was not directed at you.  I was just pointing out that this person sounds exactly like this other member that was here, under the name Destroyer Style. He was a typical young kid, 21 I think, who thought that he could make his own style, that it was some super thing, etc., argued all the time with those that tried to help him, never listened...just like this guy is doing.
> 
> ...


 

lol nope, no Destroyer Style here. Never heard of him.
Actually, a gentleman from earlier has not only helped me, but has also humbled me with merely words......
I think i've gotten all the help I need though. I thought about making my own style for the past year (about), and haven't had _any_ luck with it.
I think it's just best to stick with the style or art that i've now chosen.

I apologize if any disrespect or hostility was directed towards you, or anyone for that matter.


Thanks.



Aries Kai


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Bro,
> 
> Take my comments anyway you like. No offense intended, but at times, I grow tired of sugar coating things for people, and telling them the things they WANT to hear, rather than the truth.
> 
> ...


 

What it really has boiled down to is...
I can use my Jujutsu. I can use my fists (boxing). I can last with endurance. I can use a blade...
But I can't use my entire body as a weapon (like in Taijutsu).
I've found what i'm looking for and will be training in shortly.

Again, thanks to you all.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Again, why has it taken 16yrs to see this? As for who is sitting behind the computer...you're correct sir, however, I can assure you, there are many here who do have that knowledge. As for myself...all my training can be backed up by my teachers. 20+yrs of training. Apparently what I do and what my teachers do, works, otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this to you, whoever you may be.
> 
> Sit down, figure out what type of training YOU need, ask questions, be humble and stop arguing with everyone that offers you suggestions. Ask questions, but dont be a jerk about it. Not saying you are, just sayin'.
> 
> As for your living situation...dont know what to tell ya, other than to maybe not wear the expensive watch, fancy shoes, mind your business, and avoid trouble.


 

lmao. Ok, man. I don't know if you've checked out previous posts, but...
The "expensive watch" and "fancy shoes" deal was during my _childhood._
I'm sitting here, openly admitting things; because I was seeking the right answer (which, I've found). I do everything to mind my own business and avoid trouble. I didn't just learn that in Martial Arts, but I learned that growing up.
My living situation is fine. I'm shackin it up in a nice hotel at the moment, bout to have a new apartment soon for the next couple months, then off to Los Angeles, Cali.
I'm fine as far as that goes. I'm a student, my wife is a Registered Nurse (she makes pretty good money, $23 an hour). I'm fine, but thank you for your concern!! Seriously! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







Merry Christmas, Sir.


----------



## Tez3 (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> What it really has boiled down to is...
> I can use my Jujutsu. I can use my fists (boxing). I can last with endurance. I can use a blade...
> But I can't use my entire body as a weapon (like in Taijutsu).
> I've found what i'm looking for and will be training in shortly.
> ...


 
You will be disappointed again I think. You already have the best weapon available....... your brain. Fight smart.

My instructor tells the story, and I know others here know it too, of the fox and the cat. They are sitting under a tree one day where the fox is telling the cat about all his techniques for getting away from the hunt, I have hundreds he tells the cat. Then in the distance the hounds and the horses can be heard, as they get nearer the cat shoots straight up the tree while the fox is still sitting there debating which of his hundred ways of escape to use, the hounds catch him. The cat smiles, safe in her tree with her one technique that works.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> WRONG! Did you read what I said? If not, read it again! I said, a mishmash of things tossed together. That is NOT what MMA is. You're not trying to creat Frankenstein here dude, you're putting things together that work, not just a little of this, a bit of that, pop it in the over, and pray it works. Is that what you think MMA is? Is that what you think that martial arts are? I'm staring to think that you're trolling and wasting everybodies time here dude, and if thats the case, I suggest you stop, before your time here is cut short, and trolling is frowned upon.
> 
> You think that Ed Parker just threw things together hoping they'd work? He put things together alright, but what he did works! Its been tested and continues to be. Its like a puzzle...you dont just put the pieces together any old way do you??
> 
> ...


 


Again. I'm not quite sure if you've read this post either but....

If I get someone telling me, "That won't work!" and I say, "Well, why not?" and they say, "It just won't!!" then how the HELL am I going to know whether to trust them or not?
Like we both agreed on; we never know who's on the other end.
I need fine explanations on things, in order to be able to learn them.
Making mistakes is ALL part of learning; you HAVE learned that in 20+ years of training and practice; no?

Like I said, I've got the right answer; now what i've gotta do is apply it.

I'm not trolling, i'm just doing anything I can to get the right answers, such as, "Why" this won't work and "Why" that won't work.

That's what i've been looking for. That's all, man.


Now you have a Merry Christmas, ok?


Thanks.




Aries Kai


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> You will be disappointed again I think. You already have the best weapon available....... your brain. Fight smart.
> 
> My instructor tells the story, and I know others here know it too, of the fox and the cat. They are sitting under a tree one day where the fox is telling the cat about all his techniques for getting away from the hunt, I have hundreds he tells the cat. Then in the distance the hounds and the horses can be heard, as they get nearer the cat shoots straight up the tree while the fox is still sitting there debating which of his hundred ways of escape to use, the hounds catch him. The cat smiles, safe in her tree with her one technique that works.


 

lol nah. The style i'm going to be learning has much Jujutsu curriculum within it. I'm 21, I have my whole life ahead of me to learn something new.
I won't be forgetting the old, I will still be applying it.
I'll be studying Genbukan.. Has plenty of Jujutsu concepts in it, from what I can see. The Goshinjutsu is very closely related, and is more modern than anything i've ever used.

I'll be fine.

Thanks for the concern though


----------



## MJS (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> lol nope, no Destroyer Style here. Never heard of him.
> Actually, a gentleman from earlier has not only helped me, but has also humbled me with merely words......
> I think i've gotten all the help I need though. I thought about making my own style for the past year (about), and haven't had _any_ luck with it.
> I think it's just best to stick with the style or art that i've now chosen.
> ...


 


AriesKai said:


> What it really has boiled down to is...
> I can use my Jujutsu. I can use my fists (boxing). I can last with endurance. I can use a blade...
> But I can't use my entire body as a weapon (like in Taijutsu).
> I've found what i'm looking for and will be training in shortly.
> ...


 


AriesKai said:


> lmao. Ok, man. I don't know if you've checked out previous posts, but...
> The "expensive watch" and "fancy shoes" deal was during my _childhood._
> I'm sitting here, openly admitting things; because I was seeking the right answer (which, I've found). I do everything to mind my own business and avoid trouble. I didn't just learn that in Martial Arts, but I learned that growing up.
> My living situation is fine. I'm shackin it up in a nice hotel at the moment, bout to have a new apartment soon for the next couple months, then off to Los Angeles, Cali.
> I'm fine as far as that goes. I'm a student, my wife is a Registered Nurse (she makes pretty good money, $23 an hour). I'm fine, but thank you for your concern!! Seriously!


 

Many here, myself included, have tried to help you with suggestions.  Problem is, you take offense so easily.  But whatever....

Tell ya what....you sit down, think about your current training, whether or not it meets your needs, whether or not you're getting what you want out of it, put a list together, and post it here.  Detailed info about what YOU want out of YOUR training.  Again, keep in mind what I and others have said...any art can be street effective, its the person doing it that makes the difference.  So, that being said, perhaps its not your training, but you.  Maybe you're not making things work, so if thats the case, YOU need to figure out what the issue is. 

You state that in a short time you're moving to Cali?  If so, you're heading to the right place, as that seems to be the mecca for martial arts.  You name it and its there.  This may sound bias coming from a Kenpo guy, but you may want to look into Kajukenbo.  A ton of great schools there.  You have Kali, BJJ, a ton of Bujinkan schools.

So, again, figure out what you want, post it here, and if you're really sincere, I'd be happy to help in guiding you to a school.  

"til then......

Have a great Holiday. 

Mike


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Thank you for confirming my thoughts.
> 
> 1) You come here to start trouble.
> 
> ...


 

I apologize I offended you.
What I was saying was, "As far as _I_ am concerned, the thread is necro."
That's the same as saying, "This thread is dead to me. I've got nothing more for it; i'd like to drop all of the animosity."
I have no intentions in "trolling" anybody. Trolling is not my style.

I got all the answers I wanted. Just ask Chris Parker.
I'm fine, I just think you're not quite up to date with everything just yet...
Go ahead and read _all_ of the posts.
There's no point in keeping this animosity bull going.


Now that I have everything I need, you won't be seeing anymore arguments from me. I've learned a lot from you guys.
I'll be happy when I come back later and say, "Thanks to you guys, I got my 1st Dan in Ninjutsu".

Honestly, let's keep this peaceful; alright?


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Many here, myself included, have tried to help you with suggestions. Problem is, you take offense so easily. But whatever....
> 
> Tell ya what....you sit down, think about your current training, whether or not it meets your needs, whether or not you're getting what you want out of it, put a list together, and post it here. Detailed info about what YOU want out of YOUR training. Again, keep in mind what I and others have said...any art can be street effective, its the person doing it that makes the difference. So, that being said, perhaps its not your training, but you. Maybe you're not making things work, so if thats the case, YOU need to figure out what the issue is.
> 
> ...


 

You too, sir.

Thank you very much.


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 25, 2009)




----------



## Tensei85 (Dec 25, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


>


 

Haha! Thinking the same thing. Merry Christmas!


----------



## Omar B (Dec 25, 2009)

What in the world is going on here?  It's like a retread of all the other MMA fans looking to kick *** and trying to find the holy grail of arts to do so.

Quick little bit of info.  You are not going to find what you think will be your perfect style in the ring ... because you don't fight in the ring.  That would be like a 16 year old learning to drive by stepping into a NASCAR.  Sure it's driving, but it's not driving down to school and home after.

Besides, a sportsman's answer to the MMA quandary is just that, usually Thai Boxing, Boxing, Wrestling and BJJ.  So even these "unstoppable fighting machines that could kick anybody's *** in the  ring or on the street" are using 4 (incomplete) answers to a question.

Typical talk to an MMA guy.
"What style do you do?"
"Seido Karate"
"Karate sucks, I do MT, BJJ and boxing."
"Gee, that must be expensive to learn a whole bunch of things halfway."

One of my favorite quotes ever:

*There&#8217;s now a split between the pragmatic type of martial arts student and the complete martial arts student. I think you see that in some of the reality-based stuff where they strip away everything except what works physically.*
That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m so happy to see traditional martial artists like Lyoto Machida and Fedor Emelianenko who are solo martial artists in every sense of the word. They&#8217;re able to dominate people who [operate] on the surface. Fedor is a simple family man who is not about the gladiatorial thing. 

I train with a lot of these MMA guys and there&#8217;s so much that they&#8217;re lacking because they skip over the basics. Sometimes it&#8217;s harder to teach someone who hasn&#8217;t learned the proper basics. If they don&#8217;t have those, it&#8217;s very easy to beat them. They&#8217;re absolutely confused when a traditionalist comes out who can strike efficiently and break bricks with his bare hands, the balls of his feet and shins. 

A lot of these UFC guys have been through this farm system, and they&#8217;re fighting against other gung-ho people without the proper skills. They have grappling skills, but it doesn&#8217;t take very long to be proficient in that. But to strike&#8212;I liken it to Tiger Woods&#8217; swing. I&#8217;m a lot bigger and probably a lot stronger than Tiger Woods. If you had to have one of us hit you in the chin with a golf club, you better choose me because Tiger Woods, with his technique, could probably crack your chin in half with a golf club. He&#8217;s perfected that swing. He&#8217;s done that thousands, maybe millions of times.  http://www.blackbeltmag.com/michael_jai_white_black_dynamite/archives/816


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## jks9199 (Dec 25, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> My stepfather was a cop, SWAT, and county SRT for over 20 years. He's retired now. The man has also mastered the art of Tae Kwon Do, are you about to say that TKD is ineffective?
> 
> Sure, Tae Kwon Do is useless in a street fight. Great for winning Tae Kwon Do tournaments, though! Unless it is trained with the concept of the street in mind... Again, it's not the art, kid.



Actually, I have a lot of respect for what I'll label "real" Tae Kwon Do rather than the mass market, day-care & family activity version that's commonly seen.  TKD can be a very effective fighting system -- it's just not commonly taught that way in the US.  (Same thing with quite a few other arts...)


----------



## jks9199 (Dec 25, 2009)

MJS said:


> Thank you for confirming my thoughts.
> 
> 1) You come here to start trouble.
> 
> ...


One note on the moderation side of things...  The way we work here at MT, neither MJS nor myself will be making decisions on any moderator activity in this thread.  We're involved as posters/members.


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## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Actually, I have a lot of respect for what I'll label "real" Tae Kwon Do rather than the mass market, day-care & family activity version that's commonly seen.  TKD can be a very effective fighting system -- it's just not commonly taught that way in the US.  (Same thing with quite a few other arts...)





Not to pose an argument; but I will absolutely agree.
The style my stepfather has been practicing is the style his instructor learned in Korea. I've seen very many TKD fighters fight a certain way (the one's from here in the USA), and it is VERY different from the way my stepfather does it.
He actually confuses the hell out of me when we've sparred together.

His style and stance, for me, is extremely hard to keep up with.


----------



## Omar B (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> His style and stance, for me, is extremely hard to keep up with.



What is there to "keep up with" in a stance?  I've learned quite a variety of stances in my time and I've never had the singular experience of not being able to keep up with a stance, I'm not even sure I know what that means.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Omar B said:


> What is there to "keep up with" in a stance? I've learned quite a variety of stances in my time and I've never had the singular experience of not being able to keep up with a stance, I'm not even sure I know what that means.


 

Perhaps you're not meant to. Life is all about _constantly learning lessons, _and never stops no matter how old or experienced you get.

I sense plenty of animosity and possibly effects of being _butthurt_ for whatever reason or another. I've given my apologies; take them, or don't.

The stance/posture that he sits in is a very wide stance, almost like a sideways horse stance, his back fist is at his mid level while his defensive hand (lead hand) remains open but clost to himself at around head level.
Everytime I try to grapple him, he counters very effectively, everytime I try to throw a punch or flurry at him, he counters my first or first few, and throws me around. Everytime I use my feet/kick at him, he always counters and sends me sailing.


Do you have _any more_ questions?
You are _QUITE_ concerned, for someone who shows so much animosity.

Any reason for this, _Omar B?_


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 25, 2009)

Omar B said:


> What is there to "keep up with" in a stance? I've learned quite a variety of stances in my time and I've never had the singular experience of not being able to keep up with a stance, I'm not even sure I know what that means.


 

I think you are a _troll, Omar B_. There's no point in continuously contradicting me or keeping the "flame" going in your little "flamboyant approach". I don't care who you are, where you come from, or how long you've been here.
Here at Martial Talk, i've learned that respecting others no matter their age, sex, body type, race, skill set, or anything else deragatory is something that is not only highly frowned upon; but is also not tolerated.

What you're trying to do is push my buttons.

Well eat your words.

I'm out of this conversation, unless someone else has got something to talk about. I've got the information that I needed.

Thanks.




Aries Kai


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 25, 2009)

Best to ignore this. Person was banned from Bullshido after posting under multiple account names and acting pretty much the same way they are here. Predetermined attitude, sowing animosity, and labeling anyone who disagrees with them a troll. That is of course a common troll tactic.

Prediction?





So far this year I'm 6 for 6 on this.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Here at Martial Talk, i've learned that respecting others no matter their age, sex, body type, race, skill set, or anything else deragatory is something that is not only highly frowned upon; but is also not tolerated.



On the contrary Shawn, here at MartialTalk we put a great emphasis on respecting others, when they deserve it. The guest, the new member who hasn't inserted foot into mouth, the expert who refrains from insults, all receive great respect.  The troublemaker, the one with a chip on their shoulder or one such as you who appears to have their head up their *** and an agenda to push, they get little respect. Some of us though, enjoy toying with them until they pop.

You're actions so far are that of an agenda troll. Sub species is Contrarian, with a bit of classic mixed in. I'd also suggest a bit of Sophist and Bitter troll in your make up. Funny how transparent you are, especially in light of reading your actions elsewhere.


----------



## Tensei85 (Dec 25, 2009)

Last Legionary,

Thanks I've been looking everywhere for the "Butt Hurt Report"!

I don't know if I can continue, I think there may be permanant scarring & phsychiatric work needed.


----------



## Omar B (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I think you are a _troll, Omar B_. There's no point in continuously contradicting me or keeping the "flame" going in your little "flamboyant approach". I don't care who you are, where you come from, or how long you've been here.
> Here at Martial Talk, i've learned that respecting others no matter their age, sex, body type, race, skill set, or anything else deragatory is something that is not only highly frowned upon; but is also not tolerated.
> What you're trying to do is push my buttons.
> Well eat your words.
> ...



I'm a troll?  Sure kid, why don't you go start another thread about mixing arts to make the perfect art.  Your statements constantly show you have no idea what you are talking about yet you claim you do (such as "keeping up with a stance").

As to my flamboyant approach as you put it?  I guess you refer proper spelling and grammar as flamboyant.


----------



## Tensei85 (Dec 25, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I think you are a _troll, Omar B_. There's no point in continuously contradicting me or keeping the "flame" going in your little "flamboyant approach". I don't care who you are, where you come from, or how long you've been here.
> Here at Martial Talk, i've learned that respecting others no matter their age, sex, body type, race, skill set, or anything else deragatory is something that is not only highly frowned upon; but is also not tolerated.
> 
> What you're trying to do is push my buttons.
> ...


 

Aries Kai,

No disrespect meant but I can guarantee that Omar is definitely not a troll, in fact he is a stand up Martial Artist that has a great deal of knowledge as does JKS, MJS, Chris Parker & Tez they are all stand up guys/girl with a ton of knowledge. They have deepened my understanding in countless ways just as all the members of MT have done in various ways, its a great community just maybe not always easy to get used to at 1st. 

Not to tell you what to do but maybe its a good idea to take a couple of days off of the forums or such & get things back into perspective because based on my understanding I don't feel that anyone is trying to degrade you or slander you in any way. 

Sometimes its good to take a vacation away from the Internet forums, I know I do sometimes & its enjoyable!

Just making a suggestion because it looks like you have a great deal to offer & its always great to have more knowledgeable posters on MT. 

Happy Holidays,

Don't sweat the small stuff.


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 25, 2009)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS*

*Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. *

*Pamela Piszczek
MT Asst. Admin. 
*


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 26, 2009)

I just discovered this thread this evening. This is probably the funniest thing I've read on this forum. I think honestly this has to be an elaborate hoax on the part of arieskai, jks, chris parker and omar to make all of us piss ourselves.


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## mook jong man (Dec 26, 2009)

Omars not a troll.

I go to all the meetings and I've never seen him there.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Actually, I have a lot of respect for what I'll label "real" Tae Kwon Do rather than the mass market, day-care & family activity version that's commonly seen. TKD can be a very effective fighting system -- it's just not commonly taught that way in the US. (Same thing with quite a few other arts...)


 
Hey JKS,

Yeah, that was actually meant to be tongue in cheek, thought the last bit was enough to show that... oh, well. I've actually got Tae Kwon Do in my background, and hearly having my nose broken for leaning into a side kick certainly showed me a bit of power there!

Oh, and Jenny? Uh, not a hoax... at least, if it is, no-one told me!


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## Tez3 (Dec 26, 2009)

I can see the point in trolling if you make yourself out to be smarter than everyone else or you can get people to blow their tops but I'm buggered if I can see the point in portraying yourself as a confused teenager in the grip of a hormone flush while smoking your dad's roll ups thinking you are an adult. Very odd. 

I work on the basis that 9 out of 10 may be trolls but that one who is not may need some help so I post anyway. If it's a troll no harm done, if it isn't we've helped someone. I've been helped a huge lot by people on here and I'm not going to stop my posting habits just because someone may be a troll. Besides what if someone else reads it and does find it helpful? 

A friend of mine trolls when he thinks people are getting too above themselves but he is very very clever and will tie people up in knots with their own words, he should have been a barrister lol. He's an MMA fighter instead with a first class honours degree in electrical engineering. Very good at everything he does actually. No he hasn't been on here lol!


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## Omar B (Dec 26, 2009)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> I just discovered this thread this evening. This is probably the funniest thing I've read on this forum. I think honestly this has to be an elaborate hoax on the part of arieskai, jks, chris parker and omar to make all of us piss ourselves.



Not my intent in this thread, but in real life I do always aim for the urine.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> lol nope, no Destroyer Style here. Never heard of him.
> Actually, a gentleman from earlier has not only helped me, but has also humbled me with merely words......
> I think i've gotten all the help I need though. I thought about making my own style for the past year (about), and haven't had _any_ luck with it.
> I think it's just best to stick with the style or art that i've now chosen.
> ...


 


AriesKai said:


> I apologize I offended you.
> What I was saying was, "As far as _I_ am concerned, the thread is necro."
> That's the same as saying, "This thread is dead to me. I've got nothing more for it; i'd like to drop all of the animosity."
> I have no intentions in "trolling" anybody. Trolling is not my style.
> ...


 


AriesKai said:


> You too, sir.
> 
> Thank you very much.


 
Dude,

I must say this thread has turned into quite the off topic train wreck.  Let me say a few things.

1) How is that list coming?  

2) After doing some homework, I notice that you've taken quite the beating on another forum, and basically done there, what you do here....post questions, looking for answers, you get them, but because they're not what YOU want to hear, you get all pissy, cry foul, say threads are dead and necro.  Hmm....why are you airing your dirty laundry here?  

3) I find it funny because here you claim that you're 21, yet over on BSDO, you made a post that said that you have over 30yrs of experience.  Umm...math wasn't one of my best subjects in school, but that doesn't add up right.  Here's what ya said, in a reply to diesel_tke:



> Ah see... this is is where you are wrong.
> 
> 
> *I do have over 30 years of training and experience...*
> ...


 
So, with all the training you say you did in Japan, the other arts you say you've trained in, and all the people, ie: military and LEO, that you say you've trained with, it seems to me that you've learned nothing, as you're still in this quest to find the best.  BTW, much like Destroyer Style, who seems to not have spent much time training in one art before moving onto the next, I wonder, is that the case with you?  I mean, if one were to spend only a short amount of time, how much can they really walk away with?  So, how much time have you spent during your 16 or 30yrs of training?

4) You find it necessary in, oh, well, pretty much every damn post, to talk about your '16yrs of training', all the arts you train in, your backyard, schoolyard fights, etc.  Then, in a post, where I once mentioned that I've been training for 20+ yrs, you mock me.  See, difference between you and I dude, is that I dont brag.  See, I'm not impressed with people that try to BS me with fancy high rank, multiple BB rankings, or some huge laundry list of stuff.  I'm not the 'ohh and ahh' type of guy.  Its the skill of the person that impresses me the most, not the side dish stuff.  

5) You list a few different arts, but yet you're still looking for the magical one, thinking that its out there somewhere.  As I and many others have said many times, its not the art, but the person.  I wonder why its also taken you 16yrs and you're now seeing that something isn't right.

6) As for not reading the posts here...actually, yes I have.  You started this thread talking about Machida and his art, but its now generated into...well, I'm not quite sure yet.  

7) Destroyer style...here, read posts by this member.  I swear, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were his evil twin! LOL!  He, like you is young, doesn't like to hear things that don't mesh with the truth, wants to create his own style, disagrees with those that have more training time, more real world experience, and gets frustrated over it all.  

8) You state that your personal items being stolen happened when you were a kid.  Here is the post I quoted, and my reply, to which you said this.  So my question is simple....you claim that you've been training supposedly for 16yrs, claim you got your *** kicked and items taken, state that happened in your childhood, so if all that is true, what have you changed in your fighting style today?  Are you still getting your *** kicked?  If you are, then you need to look at why.  If you're not, then you must be training something correctly to save you.  

 9) You repeatedly ask, such as you said here, why this and that won't work.  Have you stopped to think that maybe it does work, but perhaps its the way YOU are training it?  I mean, I've been down that road many times, have been show correctly, and then had that, "Oh yeah" moment, seeing that it was a simple mistake on my part, but with the right correction from a quality teacher, it was fixed.

10) Offended me?? LMAO...dude, I doubt anything you can say, could or would offend me, but thanks for the apology anyways.  

11) In closing I'll say this.  While JKS already said it, its worth saying again.  Forum mods here, can't mod a thread they're involved in.  So, I and JKS are not involved in any moderation of this particular thread.  So member to member, let me say this.  If you havent already, you may want to check this out, especially 4.5.  If I didn't know any better, I'd say that description fits this thread to a T.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> On the contrary Shawn, here at MartialTalk we put a great emphasis on respecting others, when they deserve it. The guest, the new member who hasn't inserted foot into mouth, the expert who refrains from insults, all receive great respect.  The troublemaker, the one with a chip on their shoulder or one such as you who appears to have their head up their *** and an agenda to push, they get little respect. Some of us though, enjoy toying with them until they pop.
> 
> You're actions so far are that of an agenda troll. Sub species is Contrarian, with a bit of classic mixed in. I'd also suggest a bit of Sophist and Bitter troll in your make up. Funny how transparent you are, especially in light of reading your actions elsewhere.




_I'm going to keep this as respectful as all possible._
READ ALL OF THIS, THOSE WHO ARE QUICK TO JUMP THE GUN.

You, Sir Whoever-The-Hell-You-Are, are a great example of what I perceive as a "troll".
Oh, so you've read my previous posts where I put my first name at my closing! GOOD JOB. You using my name doesn't mean a damn thing; except that you're proving your ability to READ. GOOD JOB!
I came here from Bullshido.net after being insulted for being a NOOB, and after being banned from those forums because a buddy of mine got on here (on my computer) and began talking trash to the Bullshido.net forum users.

NOTE: I tried to clear it up with them and even told them that my buddy was on my PC before; but they weren't about to listen. They were dead-set on banning someone. It makes them feel good to get a great rise out of somebody, piss'em off, and then ban them! It shows that they have power over something. It makes them feel powerful.
They're LITTLE BOYS!!!

What happened on BULLSHIDO is IRRELEVANT to what's going on HERE, as MARTIAL TALK is a completely different place. I know for a fact that many of the good users here on MT highly frown upon the entire bullshido community. I've got my reasons to believe so.
Say they don't. You're only proving your ignorance.

Learn the whole story, get all of the facts, get some real evidence, shut your flippin mouth, open your eyes and ears before you go making assumptions and making actions BASED on those assumptions.



The Last Legionary said:


> Some of us though, enjoy toying with them until they pop.




That is a _perfect_ example of a troll, and you just openly admitted that you are one.

I don't know you from adam or able, nor do I have any respect for you due to this demeanor that you presented yourself in.


Here's MY point, you disrespectful little twit.
If that gets me banned, then so be it. You've pushed my buttons, and I'm tired of being disrespected when i'm trying to keep things as formal and as respectful as possible.
So people get pissed off; that's LIFE. Saying that you don't get pissed off is you stating that you're not human. You stating that you're not human is only stating that you're an animal, and that you don't deserve being treated in a civil manner.

What you're trying to do is push my buttons until I get pissed off and tell you that i'm not going to take your disrespect or your rude behavior anymore, as I don't deserve it.
*Note: I don't give a flip WHO you are, WHAT skills or experience you've had in your uber McDojo, or HOW GOOD you think you are.
*If I get banned for these choice of words, then obviously this "Martial Talk" isn't as cut out as Sir Bob Hubbard (no pun intended; only respect) made it out to be in our email conversations.


So with that being said:

1)I come here after getting ridicule and ban from another user forum from users (such as yourself) and moderators who disrespect and insult others for merely asking questions for being a "noob" (as some of you tend to call it) in the martial arts.

2)As I come here, I send and receive emails from Bob Hubbard (the owner of this community; I take it?) stating that Bullshido.net is a place that he wouldn't recommend any user or noob to be in (in so many words).
Not exactly what he said word for word, but I don't feel the need to tell you everything about our conversation.

3)After that, I come here to introduce myself, and find that there are plenty of nicer people here, so I decide that it's a good place to ask the questions that i've had.

4)I ask all of these questions and get half answers, or answers that I could not understand because no one laid it out for me in fine detials.
Yes, you do have to literally spell everything out to me. I'M A NOOB!!!

5)After using MY points to contradict others points (merely explaining MY personal understanding of things, and am only looking for either approval or the reason my methods won't work), I get better explanation from some, and am labeled a "troll" by others!
The one's that gave me proper explanations, thank you; I find that you are _real_ martial artists (the ones who know what they're talkin about).
As for the one's who labeled _me_ a troll? You can go burn in a fire for all I care.

6)After being continuously insulted (aggressively and/or passive aggressively; I can smell and see both) by those who either can't handle being questioned, can't handle being contradicted, and/or can't handle the fact that someone out there may simply be a NOOB; I retaliate, and am THEN labeled a _troll_ after that!!!


*Now*, You disrespectful little troll, explain to me how _I'm_ a troll, explain to me why you are so much better than I, explain to me why I should be the next on the ban list for getting pissedoff that someone proceeds in disrespecting me (aggressive or passive agressive). Explain to me why you refer to the Bullshido forums, gather a BS story from others who either perceived things their own way or just like to stir up the pot.
Explain to me and everyone else why you gather information from other 
users over the internet, have no real evidence of your accusations, and why you are such a GOD OF TRUTH.
Explain to me and everyone else why you hold yourself and others so much higher than others.

Well, I'll fill you in as I am about to educate you (_note: I'm a noob educating *you* Mr. Martial Arts guru, your HIGHNESS_):

No matter what age, sex, color/race/ethnicity/origin, religious preference, experience, personality, or what EVER makes them THEM as a PERSON; NO ONE HERE AT MARTIAL TALK IS BETTER, NOR IS ANYONE ELSE HIGHER.
I don't give two flips about WHO has been here LONGER, what they are, who they are, where they come from, what they've done; they're nothing better nor are they any higher than me.
There's a difference between MODERATORS, ADMINS, and USERS.
*The ONLY difference is the fact that MODERATORS and ADMINS keep the PEACE. They're the same concept as POLICE OFFICERS out on the street! They Police these forums and make sure everything runs smoothly; nothing more!! They're nothing more than a normal man without that power!
If I walk up to a Police Officer and say, "I think you're a fat, doughnut-eating, lazy, pathetic little slob who hides behind his badge and gun"; he's not going to arrest me, give me a citation, or ban me from the community! He's going to say, "Well I don't care WHAT you think; but don't let me catch you breaking the law.."*_ (note: I wouldn't say that to a cop, as I'm working on becoming one)_

Well, I don't see anyone keeping the flipping peace!!!!!


I may not have as much experience in the Martial Arts than some others; but that doesn't mean that I don't have more experience in shooting things (including people) at nearly 2 miles away. That doesn't mean that I don't have more experience than others in surviving out there in the *real world* with nothing except for the small amount of clothes on my back in the dead of winter or during a tornado. That doesn't mean that I don't have more experience in making homemade bombs than they do.
That doesn't meant hat I don't have anymore experience in being a MAN than most of you do (even at 21 years old) which is a different topic made for a different time, if at all.
That doesn't mean that I don't have experience in anything else that they don't!

Just because you're experienced in the Martial Arts and/or have spent YEARS on this FORUM, DOES NOT mean that you can treat users the way you want them to!!! It does not mean that you are any better or have any right to disrespect anyone else, regardless of how _better_ you are at _this_ or _that_!

If Omar B or any other user that's been here and has "cliqued" with the rest of the "cool crowd" on Martial Talk said to me:
_"You're dumb. You're such a noob. You're stupid. You're a moron. You're an ignorant redneck because i'm from NEW YOAK"
_THAT would be OK!!!
But if I said the most _*minute*_ thing to him; than I'm all of a sudden a _troll_ and am the NEXT ON THE BAN LIST??

WELL Little did you all _know_, I'm a big influence in the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area. I have many, many connections around _here_. I participate in many local events where many know my name in my area. I also have a personal FRIENDSHIP with Chuck Norris, Eddie Bravo, Mark Hatmaker, and the Gracie Brothers. I have _many_ different connections in the Martial Arts community (whether MMA or TMA).
My word of mouth means a lot in regards to where _I_ come from and the people that _I _know.
You may not believe me; but what _if_ what i'm saying is actually _true_?
That means that Martial Talk loses credibility all over the DFW area (except for the rejects sleeping in their grandmother/mothers basement at 40 years old, and the World of Warcraft junkie/armchair warriors), and all over the MMA/TMA community.


If this is how you all treat new users, no matter what previous forum they came from, what questions they ask, how they act when some *VETERAN USERS* *THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR SUCH A LONG TIME* piss them off, or in what way they contradict _the martial arts guru/masters who have been practicing for 20+ odd some years_; then Martial Talk is in for it _BIG TIME._
Oh, does this _offend_ some? Too bad. It's the truth. It's LIFE.
Sometimes you never hear what you want to hear.

Here's a question:
If you move to a town and you go and piss off someone that's been there for a long time; do you think the whole town is going to all of a sudden hate you, and they're going to literally ban you from their town?
No. It's not going to happen. Actually, if things escallate, the police will get involved and someone will _probably_ go to _jail_.
Does that mean that _they_ are banned from that area/community? No!!!
If _that_ happens, then legal action will be taken and that town loses a LOT of credibility all over the area that you ARE familiar with!
It'll hit the news and then that town will practically be ruined!

What you're all stating here, is that this forum is run by socialist or communist ideas; correct?
Well, I've found that no matter what political background or preference you come from; we can all get along if we put all of that to the side.
Get what i'm saying?



I'm not here to troll, i'm here to get answers - OBVIOUSLY, as you can see in all of my POSTS.
It's clear that i'm here to get answers!!!
As you can all see, I continue to ask:

_What works!?!?!
What if I do __this or __that!?!?
WHY does this work and WHY does that work???
Well THIS is what I think; why am I wrong???
_ 

Just because I contradict some of your answers; that doesn't mean that i'm trolling you. If that's the case, don't answer questions if you can't handle being contradicted, and can't give a good explanation as to _why_ something will or will not work.


With all of that being said; take your little notions, take your cute little pictures and your pathetic little demeanor and go find a tree to climb; because you obviously can't handle a NOOB, MR. MARTIAL ARTS MASTER.





That's what I think about that :shrug:


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

Some things to ponder:

1) There is a Report to Mod (RTM) feature on every post.  Its a little red triangle in the upper right hand corner of each persons post.  It generates a report for the mods to review.  A word of caution....dont use it because someone is upsetting you, offending you or doing anything that does not fall into the description of the forum rules.  IIRC, they've been linked in this thread. 

2) We're talking via computer, not face to face, thus its very possible for misunderstandings to happen.  Rather than people getting their panties in a twist, explain in a civil fashion, whats not understood and ask for clarification.

3) Oh yeah, in addition to the RTM feature, there is an ignore feature on everyones profile, which allows a user to not view the selected members posts.  

4) If someone is upsetting someone, rather than fight back and put yourself at risk for mod action, hit that pretty little red triangle and let the mods deal with it.  Saves alot of headache in the long run.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I came here from Bullshido.net after being insulted for being a NOOB, and after being banned from those forums because a buddy of mine got on here (on my computer) and began talking trash to the Bullshido.net forum users.


 
I must ask..why did you allow your password to become public?  Of course, if a PW does become public, a PW change should be the first thing that should be done, to avoid issues such as you claim.

BTW....what was the original intent of this thread again?  Seems that we went from Machida to...well, I'm not quite sure. Oh yeah...a train wreck.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

BTW, I noticed, before you took out a few lines in your post, that you said that you were working on a LEO job.  Can you explain this please?

Link



> After being discharged, I became a LEO (Patrolman) with the Dallas Police Department located at 2331 West Northwest Highway in Dallas, TX 75220 for 2 years before coming over to the Sheriff's department.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 26, 2009)

It is possible to find oneself in a situation where others are simply jerks.  I have joined a few forums over the years that for one reason or another were not to my liking.  I have also been a member of forums where I have worn out my welcome and felt that it was not my fault, but that of others.  And I've been 'foruming' for a long time - back in the day, I ran a computer BBS for those who remember dial-up lines, modems, and so on.

However, if I found that wherever I went, I received the same responses, I might begin to believe, if I were mature enough, that the problem was not with others but with myself.

One can easily have a few bad experiences and chalk it up to the behavior of others.  After a few, it might not be *them*, is what I'm suggesting.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

MJS said:


> BTW, I noticed, before you took out a few lines in your post, that you said that you were working on a LEO job.  Can you explain this please?
> 
> Link





I have no idea where that came. After I was discharged from the Army, I became a Commissioned Security Guard with IPC International Corporation (since you must know). Anything about my personal life is nothing of your concern by any means.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

You perceive anyone who disagrees with you as a troll. I just think you're an asshat myself. You got smacked over at the childrens network because you got caught in your lies. You're getting caught here for the same. Grow a pair, man up and admit it. 

 You name drop like we care. Meeting someone at a seminar or expo isn't "knowing" them, dumbass.  If that were the case I'd "know" both Clintons, Obama and both Bush's, not to mention Ray Parks, Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Ed Parker, Jackie Chan and Zhang Zyi. (Shes a sweetie I might add, has soft hands and hot eyes)  

 For your information, yes, I am a troll.  The difference between us however is I've been here a long time, have actually contributed to the site both content wise and financially.  The last lying piece of trash I sparred with here was sent packing not too long ago. You remind me of him. Slightly shorter and a bit thicker.

You came here with a chip on your shoulder, a past history you can't hide from and an attitude that sucks.

You are a 21 yr old male named Shawn, who lives in the DFW area. 



> Male
> 21 years old
> Dallas, Texas
> 
> ...



You puffed up your pompous little chest and said


> WELL Little did you all know, I'm a big influence in the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area. I have many, many connections around here. I participate in many local events where many know my name in my area. I also have a personal FRIENDSHIP with Chuck Norris, Eddie Bravo, Mark Hatmaker, and the Gracie Brothers. I have many different connections in the Martial Arts community (whether MMA or TMA).
> My word of mouth means a lot in regards to where I come from and the people that I know.



Hey dumb nuts, guess what? Several of our former staff are from Texas. Most are still paying members of the site, run schools (real schools I might add) and are real community leaders.  Do you know how many members we have in tthe DFW area alone? How much traffic from Texas?  I think it's the 3rd most active MT spot in the US. Ask Kaith, he's got the stats. It's been a while since I saw them.  Or don't you ignorant kid.

Yeah I said ignorant. This isn't a democracy. Go read the rules you agreed to at sign up.  There's at least 1 mod warning in here, I'm sure the next is coming and I'm sure I'll have another 'shut up' note, which I'll deserve and accept like the man I am.

You I expect will ***** and moan like a little pissy troll baby. 

Your own words convict you of being a certified troll. 

"Do you know who I am"

Yeah, a whiney, self important nobody with delusions of adequacy who thinks he can intimidate us and is failing horribly at everything other than amusing us.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It is possible to find oneself in a situation where others are simply jerks.  I have joined a few forums over the years that for one reason or another were not to my liking.  I have also been a member of forums where I have worn out my welcome and felt that it was not my fault, but that of others.  And I've been 'foruming' for a long time - back in the day, I ran a computer BBS for those who remember dial-up lines, modems, and so on.
> 
> However, if I found that wherever I went, I received the same responses, I might begin to believe, if I were mature enough, that the problem was not with others but with myself.
> 
> One can easily have a few bad experiences and chalk it up to the behavior of others.  After a few, it might not be *them*, is what I'm suggesting.




Bill, with all due respect; I see and do agree with what you are saying.

But as you know (as do many others), there _are_ others online who tend to try to push other peoples buttons and rile them up.
The only reason they feel that they can get away with it, is because it's online and that because no one is doing anything about it.

I do not feel that I did anything to deserve the treatment that i've been receiving.
Those referring to past experiences are only ruining the entire concept of, "turning over a new leaf"; even though I never felt the need or desire to turn over a new leaf in the first place.

I came here with the same questions as I did in Bullshido.net (the first and only other place where I became part of an online martial arts community).


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I have no idea where that came. After I was discharged from the Army, I became a Commissioned Security Guard with IPC International Corporation (since you must know). Anything about my personal life is nothing of your concern by any means.


 
Well, you said it, not me.  However, you may find this interesting.  From the rules:

*Section 10 : Law Enforcement Officer Policy

*MartialTalk welcomes the members of the various branches of Law Enforcement to join and participate on our site.


It is not required that LEO's identify themselves as such.


Members who are however found to falsely claim to be law enforcement officers will be subject to one or more of the following:


An Immediate & Permanent Ban
Reported to Internet Service Provider
Reported to Law Enforcement organization closest to them for investigation. All account information will be provided to aid their investigation.
Impersonating an officer of the law is a criminal offense in most places, and will not be tolerated here. We have several active & retired LEO on staff as well as active members of the site. 


If you suspect someone of lying about their law credentials, please report the post and the situation will be investigated.


Thank you.


Seeing that many people here are active LEOs, retired LEOs or have connections in the LE field, I'd be careful what you say as it may bite you in the end.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

I love college kids. So full of thinking they know it all.


> shawn's Schools
> Dallas County Community College District
> Dallas,TX
> Graduated: N/A
> ...


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> I have no idea where that came. After I was discharged from the Army, I became a Commissioned Security Guard with IPC International Corporation (since you must know). Anything about my personal life is nothing of your concern by any means.


Still having problems with kids sneaking in and using your PC while you're in the can supervising a huge brownware download?


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## jks9199 (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> That's what I think about that :shrug:



Congratulations, kid.

You've just convinced me.  I think your full of bovine excrement.  I wasn't originally going to do this... but your little rant here convinced me maybe it's due.

To be blunt -- I read the posts over on BSDO, too.  This part here:


> After being discharged, I became a LEO (Patrolman) with the Dallas Police Department located at 2331 West Northwest Highway in Dallas, TX 75220 for 2 years before coming over to the Sheriff's department.
> I cross-trained with the Dallas SWAT teams, and was ready to be selected before I found out about the SRT.
> I found more of an interest in SRT than in SWAT, so this is where I am.
> Also, with Dallas PD, there is a 3 year waiting period before you can perform any 'special assignments' such as SWAT or Undercover/Anti-Gang and Drug Task Force assignments.


is crap. I doubt there's an agency around without a requirement for a couple of years experience before a special assignment like SWAT. (Which goes by many names... Tactical teams, tactical response teams, Special Response Team, Sheriff's Response Team... Hey, haven't I seen SRT somewhere...) Cops learn to be cops in patrol. (Pure investigative agencies like the FBI or some state Bureaus of Investigation are different; there, you cut your teeth on background investigations and minor cases.) Anything else only comes after, except for some places that do still _occasionally and rarely _grab someone before the academy for a *limited *term of undercover work before going to the full academy and then the street. And a lot of those specialties take a lot more than 2 or 3 years on the street to really be competitive...

Name dropping doesn't impress folks here.  You'd be rather surprised, I suspect, at some of the names behind some of the screen names here.  You'd be even more surprised at who some of those folks have on speed dial.

If you've got a problem with a poster here, let me strongly urge you to use the ignore feature.  If you've got a problem with a post, use the RTM button.  Hell, report this one, if you want.  Staff here has to play by the rules just like everyone else; I can't tell you another board where the owner, founder, and administrator has been suspended.  (I know one where the founder, at his own request, was banned after selling the site to another member... simply so he could brag he was banned from every such site he'd been a member of.)

The internet can suck for communication because so much human communication is non-verbal -- but it's got a great feature that's absent in a face to face conversation.  You can have your say, wait, think about it, and decide not to post it.  Here, you even have a limited window in which you can edit what you said when you realize it didn't come out quite how you meant it!  Maybe, just maybe, you oughta take advantage of that feature.


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Congratulations, kid.
> 
> You've just convinced me.  I think your full of bovine excrement.  I wasn't originally going to do this... but your little rant here convinced me maybe it's due.
> 
> ...



:sniper:
:lfao:
:cheers:
opcorn:


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Bill, with all due respect; I see and do agree with what you are saying.
> 
> But as you know (as do many others), there _are_ others online who tend to try to push other peoples buttons and rile them up.
> The only reason they feel that they can get away with it, is because it's online and that because no one is doing anything about it.



One finds quite a variety of people online who behave in a variety of ways.  Some of them can be quite rude from time to time, and yes, some get quite a kick out of pushing buttons.  I might add that one does not push buttons unless it gets an entertaining (to them) response.  In other words, they may push your buttons, but if you jump when they say 'frog', that's your problem.



> I do not feel that I did anything to deserve the treatment that i've been receiving.
> Those referring to past experiences are only ruining the entire concept of, "turning over a new leaf"; even though I never felt the need or desire to turn over a new leaf in the first place.



Like it or not, one earns a reputation that can trail after one like a tail on a kite.

With regard to turning over new leaves, one often finds that making a clean breast of things rather than coming up with more imaginative excuses that one hopes cover all the bases and relieves one of personal responsibility might go further.



> I came here with the same questions as I did in Bullshido.net (the first and only other place where I became part of an online martial arts community).



Although I did not take part in the general hazing you have received, I did have my 'BS' detector go off as well.  A quick Google through events related to your chosen handle, your choice of terms, and so on led me to believe what others also seem to believe.  I realize you cannot see yourself as others appear to be seeing you, but they are not alone.  If you had a mirror that let you see yourself as others are seeing you, you might stand down and take a step back.  I'm sure you're capable of that, you're intelligent.


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)




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## Tez3 (Dec 26, 2009)

You lot do realise you force me to print your posts off when you post long tirades etc? My eyes are such they can't cope with reading for long on the screen.
Anyway to get back to the subject here's some highlights etc of good karate/TKD fighters which gives the lie to the thing about MMA fighters not being good at TMAs and not learning thoroughly any TMA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiV2CU5Gb6Y&feature=video_response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HufX6Ly0x5w&feature=related





 
There's three TKD blackbelts in these fights.

guys, I'm trying to post up mates fights to show off, I mean show off TMA skills, don't get this thread locked!


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> You perceive anyone who disagrees with you as a troll. I just think you're an asshat myself. You got smacked over at the childrens network because you got caught in your lies. You're getting caught here for the same. Grow a pair, man up and admit it.
> 
> You name drop like we care. Meeting someone at a seminar or expo isn't "knowing" them, dumbass.  If that were the case I'd "know" both Clintons, Obama and both Bush's, not to mention Ray Parks, Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Ed Parker, Jackie Chan and Zhang Zyi. (Shes a sweetie I might add, has soft hands and hot eyes)
> 
> ...




Yup! That's my myspace account! Good job! You're using my personal info to insult me!


This here, everybody, proves that this site is new-member unfriendly.

Example:



The Last Legionary said:


> For your information, yes, I am a troll. The difference between us however is I've been here a long time, have actually contributed to the site both content wise and financially. The last lying piece of trash I sparred with here was sent packing not too long ago. You remind me of him. Slightly shorter and a bit thicker.




He said that because he has contributed financially and content-wise.

I came here with specific questions (as a new user probably would) and was called a _troll_ because I contradicted others (hoping they would contradict me back with some good explanations).

This loser uses his "status" to justify his reasons for being such an a$$hole or a _troll_.


So that means that because I came here and haven't contributed (YET), means that I'm less than he is?

 


You puffed up your pompous little chest and said





The Last Legionary said:


> You name drop like we care. Meeting someone at a seminar or expo isn't "knowing" them, dumbass. If that were the case I'd "know" both Clintons, Obama and both Bush's, not to mention Ray Parks, Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Ed Parker, Jackie Chan and Zhang Zyi. (Shes a sweetie I might add, has soft hands and hot eyes)
> 
> 
> Hey dumb nuts, guess what? Several of our former staff are from Texas. Most are still paying members of the site, run schools (real schools I might add) and are real community leaders. Do you know how many members we have in tthe DFW area alone? How much traffic from Texas? I think it's the 3rd most active MT spot in the US. Ask Kaith, he's got the stats. It's been a while since I saw them. Or don't you ignorant kid.




Dear me; here you go making assumptions.
I personally KNOW Chuck Norris and maintain a good friendship with him.
Yes, even celebrities can have friends outside the "celebrity world".
I personally KNOW Mark Hatmaker (constantly share emails with him as well).
I personally KNOW Carlos Machado (as he is my former instructor. go google or youtube him).
I personally KNOW Saekson Janjira (he is also my former instructor. go google him, or youtube him, too, dumbass).
I personally KNOW the Gracie family. I trained in their school for a few weeks in Miami; and they are Carlos Machado's cousins (the brothers).
I personally KNOW Eddie Bravo (We play online videogames with each other almost all the time. ask me for his s/n on STEAM; go ahead, get embarrassed).

You're also ignorant to believe that just because there are others on here from Dallas/Fort Worth; that I can't spread the good power of, "word of mouth" all over this area and all over Los Angeles, and all over Florida (where most of my family is from), all over Chicago, all over Arizona (where my wife's family is from), and all over every area where we have some sort of influence. If you're thinking that a few people can't do some harm, then you shouldn't be here at all, and/or shouldn't be running this site.

I think you're a _grandios_ little fruit who holds himself on such a _high horse_ because you've obtained some social status over an online forum by contributing your "content" and your "money".

I don't give two flips how long you've been here or what you've given. You don't treat anyone the way you've treated me.
Why? Because the word of mouth (no matter how small it begins) can turn into a big one. My "big mouth" can turn into an even "bigger" one.


I contribute to my community, _heavily._ Not just in the Martial Arts, but to the local animal shelters, to childrens foundations and communities (such as Big Brothers, Big Sisters) to the Red Cross, to the Salvation Army, to many, many other places and things. My fathers wife is a Doctor in the Plano area, they know the entire police department. My aunt and uncle own half of Napa auto parts in this entire area.


You're talking to a young man who truly has a lot of influence.

I don't care how much money or content you've put in here; that isn't going to help in _THIS _area.


I'm not making threats; I'm educating you. Don't treat new users this way, no matter how they've acted.
Always remain formal and professional. You, obviously, do not have those capabilities. If so; why not display them?



Act like a man, don't talk about it.


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## Omar B (Dec 26, 2009)

This thread is hilarious!  Being called a troll by some dude who's been a member here for all of like a week and answering (as patiently as one can answer someone who's not talking in cogent sentences).  I think if I were a troll It would have been quite apparent about 2 years ago.  

Ask a question, don't like the answer given, the respondent must be a troll ... it's all so simple now.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

MJS said:


> Well, you said it, not me.




No sir, I definitely did not.
Where you come up with this conclusion, I have no idea.



MJS said:


> However, you may find this interesting.  From the rules:
> 
> *Section 10 : Law Enforcement Officer Policy
> 
> ...



I see..
I'm not one YET; but i'm working on it.
Again, I haven't lied about being one at all.
Although, I'll do as you request and report anything I see, if I see anything that I feel is fishy.

It's disrespectful to _real_ law enforcement officers who put their life on the line for our safety.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

I guess someone must've missed my post when I mentioned that pretty red button.  Ahh...thank God I'm involved in this thread and won't have to deal with the numerous reported posts that I'm sure are piling up.  Amazing....its as clear as day, yet AK sees a nasty post to him by TLL, and instead of keeping his mouth shut and moving on to more productive discussion, what does he do?  He fires back with his own rude post.  Whats that saying...2 wrongs dont make a right.

Sigh......


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

Omar B said:


> This thread is hilarious!  Being called a troll by some dude who's been a member here for all of like a week and answering (as patiently as one can answer someone who's not talking in cogent sentences).  I think if I were a troll It would have been quite apparent about 2 years ago.
> 
> Ask a question, don't like the answer given, the respondent must be a troll ... it's all so simple now.




It does not matter how long you've been here.

I call those a troll who show aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness, and those who appear to try to get a "rise" out of somebody.

If I feel you're a troll, I'll call it like I see it so the _real_ admins and moderators can do some investigating.


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## jks9199 (Dec 26, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It is possible to find oneself in a situation where others are simply jerks.  I have joined a few forums over the years that for one reason or another were not to my liking.  I have also been a member of forums where I have worn out my welcome and felt that it was not my fault, but that of others.  And I've been 'foruming' for a long time - back in the day, I ran a computer BBS for those who remember dial-up lines, modems, and so on.
> 
> However, if I found that wherever I went, I received the same responses, I might begin to believe, if I were mature enough, that the problem was not with others but with myself.
> 
> One can easily have a few bad experiences and chalk it up to the behavior of others.  After a few, it might not be *them*, is what I'm suggesting.


Aw, c'mon, Bill...  That just couldn't be!  It's clearly that nobody is taking the time to explain things plainly enough for someone who brags about having been training for 16+ years, across multiple arts.  If they only took the time to explain his words to him, he'd understand.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> No sir, I definitely did not.
> Where you come up with this conclusion, I have no idea.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, I must say that it was your name over at BSDO that said it.  If this were not true, and someone else as you claim, was using your computer, I'd do something about it.  So, that is where my and others conclusions were drawn.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> It does not matter how long you've been here.
> 
> I call those a troll who show aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness, and those who appear to try to get a "rise" out of somebody.
> 
> If I feel you're a troll, I'll call it like I see it so the _real_ admins and moderators can do some investigating.


 
So, your version of the mods and admins doing some investigating, is talking about it in a long *** thread, where posts get buried with other posts....rather than reporting the issue, such as I've said a few times already.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

Again, more how important you are BS.  Do you know who I am? Who I know? Who I'm currently on the phone with laughing about you with?
No you don't, and you'd be surprised to know. Seems he thinks you're a real joke. A self important little snot. Also says you leglog like a girl.  ":rofl:

My money and contributions here = squat in real life. If I cross the line enough, or go too far, you'll see the "Banned" tag up there and I'll have to amuse myself some other way on the weekends when I'm near a net connection (You know how much those uplinks cost when you're at sea right, being so well connected and all that).

So go ahead, "spread the word".  Point them at this thread.   They'll see the same thing we do. A little kid, all butt hurt because we didn't kiss his lamer *** after he puffed up and tried to impress us by name dropping and acting the punk ***.

And with that child I need to go. Us men have work to do, and mine involves packing to get back on the road. I'll be spending some time at Hedonism next week and must remember to pack my good toga. 

Toodles Trollkin!


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

MJS said:


> Well, I must say that it was your name over at BSDO that said it.  If this were not true, and someone else as you claim, was using your computer, I'd do something about it.  So, that is where my and others conclusions were drawn.




Yes, I am aware that someone was on my PC and that they won't be getting back on (at least for a WHILE) because of it.

To those LEO's who've seen this; I give you MY apology (although I shouldn't be the one apologizing about this).


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Dec 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Aw, c'mon, Bill...  That just couldn't be!  It's clearly that nobody is taking the time to explain things plainly enough for someone who brags about having been training for 16+ years, across multiple arts.  If they only took the time to explain his words to him, he'd understand.



As one who spent a number of years attempting to become the world's biggest shitheel, I was hoping to provide some insight based on sad personal experience.  The internet didn't exist when I was at my worst - fortunately.  I have true sympathy for those who show their asses at a young age where it will be recorded forever or until TEOTWAWKI.  There is redemption, but it involves manning up, and that can be difficult.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Aw, c'mon, Bill...  That just couldn't be!  It's clearly that nobody is taking the time to explain things plainly enough for someone who brags about having been training for 16+ years, across multiple arts.  If they only took the time to explain his words to him, he'd understand.




Yes, that's right!

Bragging? No. Giving my experiences, hoping that the _good_ martial artists will make an assessment? Yes!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Look at this major flame war!! This is great!

But, OMG, You started it! (no, I didn't, just check all the previous posts. It's easy to point the finger. I think everyone has contributed to this pathetic flame-war)

(*cough* losers)


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

Just remember, only a complete loser gets banned from both Bullshido and MartialTalk.  I suggest you try MartialArtsPlanet.com next. That way you can be a 3 time loser champion.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Yes, I am aware that someone was on my PC and that they won't be getting back on (at least for a WHILE) because of it.
> 
> To those LEO's who've seen this; I give you MY apology (although I shouldn't be the one apologizing about this).


 
At least for a while?  Now, if someone were using your computer, supposedly spreading nasty lies, it wouldn't be for a while, it'd be forever.  Log off your terminal when you're not there, change passwords, etc.  

What I find interesting, is that the person you're claiming said all this stuff, sounds very much like your own words here.  So unless you're sharing the same brain with this 'mystery' person, I think you can see why people are calling on the BS flag to be raised.


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## Omar B (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> It does not matter how long you've been here.
> I call those a troll who show aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness, and those who appear to try to get a "rise" out of somebody.
> If I feel you're a troll, I'll call it like I see it so the _real_ admins and moderators can do some investigating.



So give me an example of this agressiveness and report me to the mods, or you can copy and past anything of mine you wish and say it's passive aggressive because well that's based upon the mental state of the person listening.  As for getting a rise out of someone, youre not my wife so no, calm down there tiger.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> You lot do realise you force me to print your posts off when you post long tirades etc? My eyes are such they can't cope with reading for long on the screen.
> Anyway to get back to the subject here's some highlights etc of good karate/TKD fighters which gives the lie to the thing about MMA fighters not being good at TMAs and not learning thoroughly any TMA.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiV2CU5Gb6Y&feature=video_response
> 
> ...


I'd suggest you start a new thread. This one's scheduled for demolition soon as the Vogons wake up and check their planet blower up thingy.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Again, more how important you are BS.  Do you know who I am? Who I know? Who I'm currently on the phone with laughing about you with?
> No you don't, and you'd be surprised to know. Seems he thinks you're a real joke. A self important little snot. Also says you leglog like a girl.  ":rofl:





That's just it! You're not on the phone with anyone! Being that you admitted to being a _troll_, you're merely lying, obviously.
And because you state that someone says that, "I leglog like a girl", you're obviously lying as that can not be true.


----------



## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> Yes, that's right!
> 
> Bragging? No. Giving my experiences, hoping that the _good_ martial artists will make an assessment? Yes!!
> 
> ...


 
Well, I beg to differ on who started what, but why is it that I can't stop thinking about those forum rules, especially the ones about trolling and inciting conflict.


----------



## Tez3 (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Again, more how important you are BS. Do you know who I am? Who I know? Who I'm currently on the phone with laughing about you with?
> No you don't, and you'd be surprised to know. Seems he thinks you're a real joke. A self important little snot. *Also you leglog like a girlsays* . ":rofl:
> 
> My money and contributions here = squat in real life. If I cross the line enough, or go too far, you'll see the "Banned" tag up there and I'll have to amuse myself some other way on the weekends when I'm near a net connection (You know how much those uplinks cost when you're at sea right, being so well connected and all that).
> ...


 

*Leg lock like a girl? that's uncalled for, you've never been in a leglock with Rosi or me for that matter!*


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> That's just it! You're not on the phone with anyone! Being that you admitted to being a _troll_, you're merely lying, obviously.
> And because you state that someone says that, "I leglog like a girl", you're obviously lying as that can not be true.
> [/COLOR]


How can you be sure?  I know who you are. You have no idea who I am, Shawn.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> That's just it! You're not on the phone with anyone! Being that you admitted to being a _troll_, you're merely lying, obviously.
> And because you state that someone says that, "I leglog like a girl", you're obviously lying as that can not be true.
> [/color]


 
Dude, I gotta ask something serious here.  Can you read?  Yet another post, which instead of reporting it, you just can't tear yourself away, without firing back a snide remark to match.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Again, more how important you are BS.  Do you know who I am? Who I know? Who I'm currently on the phone with laughing about you with?
> No you don't, and you'd be surprised to know. Seems he thinks you're a real joke. A self important little snot. Also says you leglog like a girl.  ":rofl:
> 
> My money and contributions here = squat in real life. If I cross the line enough, or go too far, you'll see the "Banned" tag up there and I'll have to amuse myself some other way on the weekends when I'm near a net connection (You know how much those uplinks cost when you're at sea right, being so well connected and all that).
> ...




By the way... when you leglock during training, you're not trying to destroy your sparring partner.
Or else, that's what MY instructors always taught me...

Try again, Trolly Boy.


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> *Leg lock like a girl? that's uncalled for, you've never been in a leglock with Rosi or me for that matter!*


My dear, to be leglocked by you would be my honor, and I suspect lasting joint pain.  When I was referring to how Shawny lock up though, you have to imagine someone with little frilly curls, in a blue dress all dainty and soft touchy. Not my view mind you, just that of his 'friend' who I'm possibly talking to.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> By the way... when you leglock during training, you're not trying to destroy your sparring partner.
> Or else, that's what MY instructors always taught me...
> 
> Try again, Trolly Boy.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> How can you be sure?  I know who you are. You have no idea who I am, Shawn.




Oh, you do? What's my middle name? What's my birth date? What's my social? What is my blood type?

You don't know the first thing about me, except for what you see over the INTERNET.

What a real winner. I bet you go to Wikipedia and Google for all of your information also...

You're displaying a fine amount of maturity there, Mr. I'm Older And Better Than You.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


>




lol more maturity.
I'm not falling for it. You act like a 15 year old kid.
You're not showing any level of intelligence, than that of a 5th grader (and I do believe even 5th graders are smarter than you. Just ask Jeff Foxworthy). Your insults are meaningless.


----------



## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> My dear, to be leglocked by you would be my honor, and I suspect lasting joint pain.  When I was referring to how Shawny lock up though, you have to imagine someone with little frilly curls, in a blue dress all dainty and soft touchy. Not my view mind you, just that of his 'friend' who I'm possibly talking to.



Must be one of my ex's who DIDN'T like it rough... 

You gotta be gentle sometimes with them ladies!


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

There's so much BS in this thread by certain people right now, I dont think I could find boots high enough to wear.


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## Tez3 (Dec 26, 2009)

*WILL YOU LOT STOP IT!*

Take this as an invitation to pop over to www.cagewarriors.com and play there.

the trolling awards nominations are still open.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

This you?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hoffman/1703451109

Posting the rest of the information violates this sites privacy policy.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


>




You're gonna have to do much better than that.

If I leglocked some little girl very gently, then so what?

If some people have a low opinion of me that doesn't have any real effect on my personal life at all, and is some big winner over the internet, then so what?

You know what that means?

Nothing.

That doesn't mean that I couldn't put a 7.62x51 through your head from over a mile away, whether you're moving at full speed or not while remaining completely undetected.
That doesn't mean that I couldn't blow up your car or house without you ever knowing about it.
That doesn't mean that I couldn't survive out in the wilderness with nothing but shorts and a t-shirt in the dead middle of winter (snow, ice, and all).
That doesn't mean that your "uber-l33t-skillz" in h2h will work when I have a .45 pointed at your face.

Your insults are mediocre, as are your points.
I noticed that you never answered 1 (one) of my questions before any of this FLAME-WAR started.


You obviously have nothing to offer than ignorant insults.


hah, what a loser.


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## Tensei85 (Dec 26, 2009)

Ladies/Gentlemen not to detract from the thread not that it matters anyways I don't think I could alter it anymore...

But MT is one of the 1st Online Communities & probably the only Online Martial Arts Community that I have found to be insightful, respectful & beneficial to anyone from a novice to advanced in the Martial Arts Community & even non-M.A. community members. 

It has improved my understanding & at the same time given me a voice to share with others that maybe are on the same road as I, so it's been great for networking, sharing idea's & most of all learning!

All the members I have found to be insightful, experienced & respectful in pretty much all demeanors of life. 

So with all this I have also felt that MT is one of the few Communities(Besides a few online Chinese Forums for Martial Arts) I have not encountered massive flame wars, crude dialogue & massive b.s. renderings. 

That being said "Can't we all get a long"? lol, just kidding! But anyways I think this type of dialogue encountered in this thread no matter who initiated it detracts from the meaning of MT!

I've personally always considered MT to be an upper echelon almost "god type" of internet forums with a massive list of experienced forum members. I still feel the same but I don't want to see MT fall into the depths as a lot of other forums have done, it would be a deep regret.

That's just my opinions for however little they are worth.

Happy Holidays!


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> This you?
> http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Hoffman/1703451109
> 
> Posting the rest of the information violates this sites privacy policy.





That was me right after High School.
So what? You found an old picture of me.

Good job!!!


----------



## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> You're gonna have to do much better than that.
> 
> If I leglocked some little girl very gently, then so what?
> 
> ...


 
Careful what you say.  The bold could be deemed a threat and/or challenge.


----------



## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

AriesKai said:


> You're gonna have to do much better than that.
> 
> If I leglocked some little girl very gently, then so what?
> 
> ...


Are you threatening me little man? Are you puffing up again and threatening to shoot me over the internet? Who do you think you are? Neo?  This isn't the Matrix dumb ***.  :rofl:


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

Tensei85 said:


> Ladies/Gentlemen not to detract from the thread not that it matters anyways I don't think I could alter it anymore...
> 
> But MT is one of the 1st Online Communities & probably the only Online Martial Arts Community that I have found to be insightful, respectful & beneficial to anyone from a novice to advanced in the Martial Arts Community & even non-M.A. community members.
> 
> ...



I personally feel the same way.

This "Legionnaire" character is doing much to help ruin that.

I'm no perfect one myself; but I feel that he's definitely setting an example that SHOULDN'T be set... you know, as a "Long Time Supporter and Member" and all.....


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Are you threatening me little man? Are you puffing up again and threatening to shoot me over the internet? Who do you think you are? Neo?  This isn't the Matrix dumb ***.  :rofl:




It's a point that just because you're more skilled in Martial Arts than me... just because you've been here for "such a long time" and just because you are "this" and are "that" and are doing "this" and "that", doesn't mean that I'm not gifted and are not well-trained in some way or another myself...

Little man? I'm bigger than most. Maybe smaller than you; but one's SIZE doesn't mean **** when it comes to bullets and explosives.


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## The Last Legionary (Dec 26, 2009)

Actually, I do take that as a threat.  It's quite obvious from his posts that "Kai" or "Kyle" or whatever his lamer name is is one sick individual. He can't keep his lies straight, and keeps flailing at me.  I must protest as someone so well connected as him must certainly have the ability to rape and murder me in my sleep.  I wonder, if he is a real law student, how he could have missed the career suicide a cyber threat is?

This thread has been documented.


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## AriesKai (Dec 26, 2009)

The Last Legionary said:


> Are you threatening me little man? Are you puffing up again and threatening to shoot me over the internet? Who do you think you are? Neo?  This isn't the Matrix dumb ***.  :rofl:




You obviously are suffering from many insecurities. Perhaps mid-life crisis?

You need a role-model.


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## MJS (Dec 26, 2009)

*4.2.6 Challenge Posts

*No "Challenges" posts are allowed - If there is a threat or physical challenge, real or perceived, issued, the person making said threat will be immediately banned from this board with no warning or recourse.


If you violate the above policies, your posts may be edited to conform to policy, and you may receive warnings and/or infraction points. Those who make posts that contain profane, harassing, sexual, racist, or other such expressions, written in foreign languages, will be subject to moderator action. Chronic abuse may result in account restriction, suspension or termination.


Why I bother posting anymore I dont know.  Either some people are unable to read, they are reading but choose to ignore because they gotta have the last word.

On this note, I'm done with this thread.  Anyone that wants to post anything regarding the OP, which was Machida, feel free to start a new post, away from this mess.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 26, 2009)

*Thread Locked pending Admin Review.*


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 26, 2009)

*Rather than work on some paying clients site I'll be spending the next hour wading through this disaster. 

Thanks. 

I'm tempted to bill the instigators for the cash I'll be out from this time suck. Bottom line here is, people need to hit the Report button and stand the **** down and not let train wrecks like this happen.  This isn't a fracking kindergarden.*
*
In the mean time, the few possible useful topics mixed in with this septic mess, start some new threads as this one isn't likely to reopen.*


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 26, 2009)

*To those who tried to correct this mess, thank you.

To those who participated in it, the only reason I'm not sending you a bill for my and my staffs afternoon is because it's unlikely to be more than a waste of the stamps.

This train wreck is not welcome here. Other sites live for this stuff, we don't, and long term members know this.

The main instigators have been suspended. Warnings and infractions have been issued to others as required.  

This will not be tolerated in the future. *

*Good evening.*


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