# Any of you practice slashing at something with a real bade?



## MartialArtist (Jun 7, 2003)

I have a well-designed and balanced katana that I bought recently.  Not really for show, but I decided to try it out, attacking logs and some spare lumber.

However, I would like some more training tools like holders where I can just put some wood on and attack from different angles.  I do use other tools such as a jukdo/shinai and bokkens, but I don't think it should substitute real contact as in contact with a live weapon.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 7, 2003)

try small tree limbs or bundles of straw


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## Elfan (Jun 7, 2003)

Isn't a katana designed to cut flesh, not wood?

You could try try a temp job at a slaughter house or something ;-)


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## Blindside (Jun 8, 2003)

I would be very cautious about using a katana on dried wood.  I think you stand a good chance of damaging the blade.

Have you considered the traditional tatami?  Start with half rolls if you haven't cut anything before.  Personally, I love october when the pumpkins are real cheap, gourds make a good target! 

Lamont


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## yilisifu (Jun 8, 2003)

Traditional tatami or bundles of straw are best.  DON'T cut at logs.  You'll be looking for a new katana sooner than you think...


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 8, 2003)

Please for the love of all that's holy GET INSTRUCTION.  Tameshigiri is extremely dangerous.  As for where to find cutting targets and stands, try http://www.bugei.com.  You should also consider checking into the Bugei forums and ask about training in your area, or at least for the location of a nearby seminar.

I cannot stress this enough.  A guy came into the dojo I train at a few months ago.  He was interested in taking classes.  During the course of talking with him, he mentioned playing around with swords on his own.  He nearly lopped his foot off on a bad cut.  Took his shoe off and showed me a scar that ran some 4 to 5 inches across hsi foot.  Dr. said he nearly lost it altogether.

This is a lot more dangerous than you think.  Even with a cheapie wall hanger POS.  Even more dangerous with the stainless steel SLOs which are likely to not break, but SHATTER on contact with anything hard.  This kind of catastrophic failure will send nasty sharp pieces of metal like shrapnel from a grenade in all directions.  

Please just find instruction and then ask your instructor for advice.


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## yilisifu (Jun 8, 2003)

Absolutely!  There's much more to proper cutting than meets the eye and you certainly don't want to just start wailing away with it...


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## Despairbear (Jun 9, 2003)

If you want to cut wood get an axe. As for test cutting I would suggest you start with 2-liter soda bottles suspended from a tree branch by a rope. The goal with the soda bottles is to make a "clean cut" AKA no jagged edges on the bottle.



Despair Bear


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## tonbo (Jun 11, 2003)

Ditto to all those comments above.

First of all, get some competent instruction.  Cutting has lots of subtleties to it -- it is *definitely* not just swinging a blade around.  My iai instructor used to have plenty of horror stories of samurai wanna-bes who decided to take up cutting on their own, because they had read a book once.

Second, use the right materials.  Get ahold of tatami ASAP.  Bugei is a good place to get them.  You might also check around online to see about other places, or, if all else fails, you can try making them yourself.  

Tatami mats were used (and are used today) to simulate cutting through the human body.  They are usually mounted on bamboo shafts, simulating cutting through flesh and bone (the mat is the flesh, the bamboo the bone).  

Third, be careful with the blade you use.  I would STRONGLY suggest a blade designed for cutting, not just one that you got off the internet, etc.  If it is a tameshigiri blade, it will hold up to the stress; if not, you are taking chances.

Finally, I think that Despairbear makes a good point as well--I have not tried 2-liter bottles, but that sounds like a good target as well.

Good luck!!

Peace--


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## MartialArtist (Jun 12, 2003)

Two Liter Bottles
Newspaper
Thin Sheets of Paper (for skill as it's easier to cut through something with more weight)

I found tatami mats for around 80 cents a piece.


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## Shadow Hunter (Jul 14, 2003)

One of the best, and most challenging ways of practicing cutting is to set up a sheet of newspaper between two rods like gate posts. Cut straight down on the newspaper.

Anyone can _tear_ through the paper. The trick is to _cut_ through it all the way down the paper to the bottom. You can tell by looking at the paper afterwards if you cut or tore through the target.

Perhaps the best thing of all is that you can use cheap, stainless steel blades and not have to worry about it breaking because of bad temper. And if you have a damn good blade, you don't have to worry about damaging it. But for some reason, paper does cause the blade to need sharpening faster than just about anything else in my experience. I don't know why.


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## ScottUK (Aug 23, 2003)

Jeezus....

Not wanting to sound like your parents, but please stop.  You're gonna hurt yourself.  And badly.

Imagine accidentally touching a chainsaw blade while it's whirring away.  Picture the damage?

OK, now picture a blade breaking in mid-cut and striking you in the leg et al.  This blade broke in mid-swing at about, oh I dunno, 50mph?

Go and TAP a piece of softwood with the monouchi.  See how far it enters the wood without effort.  Now, swing your mind back to the '50mph cut meeting leg' scenario.

Please get instruction in any sword art - many practice test cutting as part of their curriculum.  Tameshigiri is an important part of sword practice, but living through it is more so.

Scott


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## arnisador (Oct 26, 2003)

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...tbulls,0,3123016.story?coll=sfla-news-broward



> Vernon Garner, 70, was charged with felony animal cruelty for jabbing his sons pit bulls with a samurai sword Wednesday.


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## Kempo Guy (Oct 26, 2003)

This is going to sound redundant but I agree with Charles and Scott, GET INSTRUCTION! A shinken is NOT A TOY and can seriously injure someone or yourself... 

I've seen people with experience do tameshigiri where the blade has snapped. Fortunately the blade didn't hit anyone that time, but I've heard stories that prove otherwise. Not to mention people who have nearly severed their thumb during nukitsuke (draw) or noto (sheathing of the blade).

Once you've received instruction, you can then purchase goza from places like Bugei Trading or buy some cheap tatami beach mats (straw mats). BTW, there is procedure as to how you prepare the goza as well... Please get instruction before you hurt someone.

KG


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## Saitama Steve (Oct 26, 2003)

Good post Kempo Guy.


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## ovampire (Dec 14, 2003)

MORE THAN INJURING YOURSELF, PLEASE DO NOT INJURE HISTORY!  MORE AND MORE, OLD JAPANESE SWORDS OF SIGNIFICANT VAMLUE ARE TURNING UP BENT AND OTHERWISE RUINED BY "CUTTING TESTS".  OLD SWORDS OFTEN HAVE  CULTURAL AND HISTORICAL VALUE, PLEASE DO NOT CUT WITH THEM OR ATTEMPT TO SHARPEN OR "POLISH" THEM.  

IF YOU DO NOT CARE ABO0T THESE THINGS, YOU MIGHT CARE ABOUT THIS:  THAT OLD SWORD YOUR MARINE GRANDPA BROUGHT BACK MIGHT JUST BE WORTH A FORTUNE!  IF YOU HAVE ONE, LEAVE IT AS IT IS AND GET IT TO A KNOWLEDGABLE BROKER OR TO A SWORD SHOW.  IT MAY WELL PROVIDE YOU THE MONEY TO BUY A DOZEN PAUL CHEN SWORDS.  SELL THE OLD ONE, BUY THE NEW ONES, AND THEN CHOP TREES AND PRACTICE YOUR POLISHING TECHNIQUE TO YOUR HEART'S DELIGHT.


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## MisterMike (Dec 14, 2003)

Hey, don't go knockin' Paul Chen   

Actually, are there any comparable swordmakers out there to the Paul Chen series. I sell the Paul Chen's and am just wondering what other offerings there are in that price/quality range.

Thanks,


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## ovampire (Dec 15, 2003)

Sorry, I wasn't knocking Paul Chen swords.  I think they are terrific -- but not cultural artifacts.  Don't want to sound like a snob, either.  I hate those "sword weenies".  Just that as I have learned about real nihonto, I respect that they are a finite resource and important objects of art and history.

Check out Last Legend swords.  They are supposed to be fantastic.  Better than Paul Chen.  I haven't had a chance to play with one yet.


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## MisterMike (Dec 15, 2003)

Thanks! I saw your post on the other thread as well regarding that line. I'll check them out 

I have handled the Golden Oriole as well, and the practical plus katana from Chen. They have a good feel and balance to them with the longer handles and are great for kata.

On a side note, I'm getting a little Christmas present not without the enormous generosity of my wife in the form of a folded Bushido blade from Chen.

I can't wait


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## Kempo Guy (Dec 22, 2003)

My experience has been that the highest quality swords from Hanwei forge (Paul Chen) are being sold by Bugei Trading (unless you get one of the limited edition pieces from Paul Chen). 

I use a Golden Oriole LE in practice and also use a Crane (from Bugei). They are both folded blades and are of great quality for day to day use. I also own a Gunto that I have used... and have to say my Hanwei blades do as good or a better job than my gunto.  I'm thinking of investing money into a Dragonfly sword from Bugei and/or commissioning a blade with Howard Clark (his sanmai construction). 


Mike,
I think you'll like the Bushido... 

KG


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## MisterMike (Dec 23, 2003)

Thanks KG!

My wife won't let me open it until Christmas! I heard the same that Hanwei was actually making the swords for Bugei. Is the quality of the blade the same as the Hanwei folded series do you think?

Basically I heard Hanwei custom work was Bugei. I'm just wondering what they do to go the extra length for Bugei that they may not do in their own series.


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## Kempo Guy (Dec 23, 2003)

Mike,

Hanwei makes all the blades for Bugei (except for the custom blades). And from what I understand, the Bugei blades are the same as the folded blades offered by other dealers. I've been told the primary difference between Bugei versus other Hanwei blades are the quality of the fittings and the tsuka wrap. 
It's also my understanding that Bugei have stricter quality control on the swords and as you suggest exceed the standards on Hanwei's own line of swords...

BTW, each sword within a series have a different characteristic from one sword to another... That's why the next time I buy a Bugei blade I'm going to their facility and handle each one before making a decision.

FWIW, I'm thinking of getting a Tanto from Hanwei as well...

KG


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## AaronLucia (Aug 28, 2004)

As has already been suggested, use milk jugs/gatorade bottles and the like to cut. I had my first sword cutting seminar about a week ago, and i had alot of fun just doing that. You'd be suprised at how you can't seem to cut the jug sometimes.


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## GarethB (Aug 29, 2004)

Ditto for getting proper instruction first.

Also, quoting a line from a fantasy computer game called Balder's Gate, there's talking sword (hey, it's fantasy) in the game that often says "Hey, I'm not an axe, I don't cut wood". If you want to cut up logs or branches, buy an axe or a chainsaw.


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## pecator67 (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi, I'm new. I'm from The Netherlands - Europe.

And I need some help picking out a good sword for my money. I hope my english won't fail me....

I am thinking of buying two swords (preferably more, hehe): one for daily Iaido practice and one to show off ; ). I prefer a 'longer' katana; I was thinking about picking the PC Practical Pro before the Practical Plus... or maybe even the Musashi?!

Or what about the Iaido practice swords of Japanese origin: Muramasa, Kotetsu or the Kanesada, etc..? Are they better, in any way, even though they are slightly more expensive?

And for demonstrations I want to use the Bushido katana; or the Dragonfly Katana (Bugei/Paul Chen).
Any suggestions? Please help me! 

Thanx.
Stephen.


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## Charles Mahan (Sep 10, 2004)

The usual advice still rings true.  Ask your instructor.


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