# Sometimes You've Got To Embarrass Yourself



## PhotonGuy (Apr 17, 2020)

Sometimes you've got to embarrass yourself if you want to learn and progress since sometimes by embarrassing yourself, or at least taking the risk of doing so, is the only way to learn and progress.


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## dvcochran (Apr 18, 2020)

I get what you are saying but can you give some examples of what you mean? 
Some people are embarrassed or self conscious the first time they walk in the door of the dojo/dojang. Some people (me) knowing do things they are going to fail at to get better. I do not necessarily translate to being embarrassed. Just part of the natural learning curve of MA. 
If you are in a belittling (jerk instructor) environment that is a very different scenario and should be considered accordingly.


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## Tez3 (Apr 18, 2020)

In a decent training environment nobody is going to embarrass themselves. If you are attempting something and it doesn't work you aren't embarrassing yourself. All you do is keep trying until you can do it. If there's talk of people 'embarrassing' themselves where you train then you are in the wrong place, find somewhere better to train.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 18, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I get what you are saying but can you give some examples of what you mean?
> Some people are embarrassed or self conscious the first time they walk in the door of the dojo/dojang. Some people (me) knowing do things they are going to fail at to get better. I do not necessarily translate to being embarrassed. Just part of the natural learning curve of MA.
> If you are in a belittling (jerk instructor) environment that is a very different scenario and should be considered accordingly.


Lets say there's this job you really want. In order to have any chance of getting the job you have to apply. When you do apply for a job you take the risk of being turned down. There is always the chance you can be rejected and not get the job. Being rejected from a job you apply to can be embarrassing not to mention very disappointing but that's the risk you take when you apply. 

You could of course not apply, you definitely won't get the job but you also will not risk being embarrassed by being turned down. But, if you don't apply in the first place then you will have no hopes of getting the job. 

Applying for a job is just one example but the point is that if you hope to ever get, do, achieve, or learn that you are sometimes going to have to put yourself in situations where you might get embarrassed. When you strive for success you are sometimes going to be embarrassed, its inevitable. You will get nowhere without sometimes taking the risk of being embarrassed.


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## Buka (Apr 18, 2020)

Faint heart never won fair maiden.

No balls, no Blue Chips.


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## JR 137 (Apr 18, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> In a decent training environment nobody is going to embarrass themselves. If you are attempting something and it doesn't work you aren't embarrassing yourself. All you do is keep trying until you can do it. If there's talk of people 'embarrassing' themselves where you train then you are in the wrong place, find somewhere better to train.


I’m pretty sure it’s just semantics and you’re both saying the same thing.


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## Buka (Apr 18, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’m pretty sure it’s just semantics and you’re both saying the same thing.



If that was to me, yes, absolutely. Two perfect examples.


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## Tez3 (Apr 18, 2020)

JR 137 said:


> I’m pretty sure it’s just semantics and you’re both saying the same thing.



I doubt it to be honest, my brain really does not work like Photonguy's, and if he says 'embarrass' he means it.


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## Gweilo (Apr 18, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I get what you are saying but can you give some examples of what you mean?
> Some people are embarrassed or self conscious the first time they walk in the door of the dojo/dojang. Some people (me) knowing do things they are going to fail at to get better. I do not necessarily translate to being embarrassed. Just part of the natural learning curve of MA.
> If you are in a belittling (jerk instructor) environment that is a very different scenario and should be considered accordingly.



He probably cannot, but I bet $1000, it followed the sentance  "watch/like this"


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## dvcochran (Apr 18, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Lets say there's this job you really want. In order to have any chance of getting the job you have to apply. When you do apply for a job you take the risk of being turned down. There is always the chance you can be rejected and not get the job. Being rejected from a job you apply to can be embarrassing not to mention very disappointing but that's the risk you take when you apply.
> 
> You could of course not apply, you definitely won't get the job but you also will not risk being embarrassed by being turned down. But, if you don't apply in the first place then you will have no hopes of getting the job.
> 
> Applying for a job is just one example but the point is that if you hope to ever get, do, achieve, or learn that you are sometimes going to have to put yourself in situations where you might get embarrassed. When you strive for success you are sometimes going to be embarrassed, its inevitable. You will get nowhere without sometimes taking the risk of being embarrassed.


That is a pretty circular comment but, yes.


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## Gweilo (Apr 18, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Lets say there's this job you really want. In order to have any chance of getting the job you have to apply. When you do apply for a job you take the risk of being turned down. There is always the chance you can be rejected and not get the job. Being rejected from a job you apply to can be embarrassing not to mention very disappointing but that's the risk you take when you apply.
> 
> You could of course not apply, you definitely won't get the job but you also will not risk being embarrassed by being turned down. But, if you don't apply in the first place then you will have no hopes of getting the job.
> 
> Applying for a job is just one example but the point is that if you hope to ever get, do, achieve, or learn that you are sometimes going to have to put yourself in situations where you might get embarrassed. When you strive for success you are sometimes going to be embarrassed, its inevitable. You will get nowhere without sometimes taking the risk of being embarrassed.



I agree, but if you never gamble, you never win, and you can definately over complicate it, through rashional and irashional thought, this of course is determined by your own opinion of yourself and your self worth.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 18, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> That is a pretty circular comment but, yes.


How is it a circular comment?


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## Flying Crane (Apr 19, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Lets say there's this job you really want. In order to have any chance of getting the job you have to apply. When you do apply for a job you take the risk of being turned down. There is always the chance you can be rejected and not get the job. Being rejected from a job you apply to can be embarrassing not to mention very disappointing but that's the risk you take when you apply.
> 
> You could of course not apply, you definitely won't get the job but you also will not risk being embarrassed by being turned down. But, if you don't apply in the first place then you will have no hopes of getting the job.
> 
> Applying for a job is just one example but the point is that if you hope to ever get, do, achieve, or learn that you are sometimes going to have to put yourself in situations where you might get embarrassed. When you strive for success you are sometimes going to be embarrassed, its inevitable. You will get nowhere without sometimes taking the risk of being embarrassed.


I don’t see anything to be embarrassed about in being turned down for a job.  Most job postings have multiple applicants.  If there is only one opening, then only one gets the offer and the rest get turned down.  All the applicants could be equally qualified and equally desired by the employer, but they need to choose one.  What is there to be embarrassed about?

Applying for a job and experiencing being turned down is something that we all go through.  Frustrating, disappointing, yes.  Embarrassing, no.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 19, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> I don’t see anything to be embarrassed about in being turned down for a job.  Most job postings have multiple applicants.  If there is only one opening, then only one gets the offer and the rest get turned down.  All the applicants could be equally qualified and equally desired by the employer, but they need to choose one.  What is there to be embarrassed about?
> 
> Applying for a job and experiencing being turned down is something that we all go through.  Frustrating, disappointing, yes.  Embarrassing, no.


Being rejected from a job can be very embarrassing. Its a blow to the ego and some people will get very embarrassed by it.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 19, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Being rejected from a job can be very embarrassing. Its a blow to the ego and some people will get very embarrassed by it.


Well it certainly does not need to be.  If it is then I think an adjustment of mindset is needed in order to have a healthier outlook about that.  Because unless you acted like a complete jerk in the interview, the rejection is not an indictment of you as a person.

As I said, it is possible that every applicant was equally qualified and the employer would have liked to hire them all.  But if there is only one opening, they have to choose one.  It could have literally been a flip of a coin at that point.

As applicants, we do not know what is going on in the background of the hiring process.  That is not shared with us.  But there is no reason to assume that they looked down on you if you know you were qualified and you know you acted in a dignified manner in the interview.

I think you ought to take a different view of this.


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## Tez3 (Apr 19, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Being rejected from a job can be very embarrassing. Its a blow to the ego and some people will get very embarrassed by it.




If it's a blow to the ego, the reaction won't be embarrassment, it will be anger or resentment. 
Being turned down for a job isn't an embarrassment. Turning up late, slovenly or being rude in the interview is cause to be embarrassed but usually people who do that don't really care so won't be embarrassed anyway.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 19, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> In a decent training environment nobody is going to embarrass themselves. If you are attempting something and it doesn't work you aren't embarrassing yourself. All you do is keep trying until you can do it. If there's talk of people 'embarrassing' themselves where you train then you are in the wrong place, find somewhere better to train.


I think this depends on the individual. If you have a huge ego, then losing or learning something new will be embarrassing. Hopefully humbling. If you don't, then you're right, there shouldn't be any embarrassment going on.


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## Tez3 (Apr 19, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I think this depends on the individual. If you have a huge ego, then losing or learning something new will be embarrassing. Hopefully humbling. If you don't, then you're right, there shouldn't be any embarrassment going on.




If you have a huge ego, you never think it's your fault, it's always someone else's so you won't be embarrassed, just angry that they dared to turn you down. A lot of politicians and world leaders are like this.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Apr 19, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> If you have a huge ego, you never think it's your fault, it's always someone else's so you won't be embarrassed, just angry that they dared to turn you down. A lot of politicians and world leaders are like this.


I rated that funny, but it could have been an 'agree'. It's a good point, and I also chuckled at it. I'd agree that embarrassed is the wrong word, resentment like you said earlier is better.


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## Tez3 (Apr 20, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I rated that funny, but it could have been an 'agree'. It's a good point, and I also chuckled at it. I'd agree that embarrassed is the wrong word, resentment like you said earlier is better.




Sometimes you have to laugh otherwise it's just too depressing to watch those with huge egos, ranting about how they aren't responsible when things go wrong and how they are when things go right, when usually they have nothing to do with the things going right and all to do with the things that go wrong. I do have certain politicians and leaders in mind when I say this.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 20, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Well it certainly does not need to be.  If it is then I think an adjustment of mindset is needed in order to have a healthier outlook about that.  Because unless you acted like a complete jerk in the interview, the rejection is not an indictment of you as a person.
> 
> As I said, it is possible that every applicant was equally qualified and the employer would have liked to hire them all.  But if there is only one opening, they have to choose one.  It could have literally been a flip of a coin at that point.
> 
> ...


It depends on how badly you want the job, rejection sucks but as to how much it sucks that directly depends on how badly you wanted whatever it is that you got rejected from. 

You mention job interviews. When you apply to a job part of the process might involve an interview with some big CEO, somebody way up in the chain of command. No matter how well prepared you go in, there is always the chance you might embarrass yourself at the interview no matter how small. The only way to 100% guarantee you won't embarrass yourself at the interview is to not go to the interview, but then of course you won't get the job.


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## Steve (Apr 20, 2020)

Embarrassment is a funny thing.  Because it's an involuntary emotional response, it can be inherently illogical.  But just because it can be irrational and illogical doesn't make it less... well, embarrassing.

As for the job thing, ego is certainly one issue.  But I've seen folks who have been embarrassed at being passed over for promotions for many reasons.  Often, this has more to do with who WAS selected than who wasn't.  I supervised a former supervisor for a period of time.  We had to get past that awkwardness initially.  I have seen many situations where folks feel a lot of pressure to be "next in line" for a position, and when not selected, they are embarrassed.  

But all of that said, I do appreciate the point of the OP which is that fear of embarrassment (or of failure) can be very limiting.  I'm reminded of a scene from "We Bought a Zoo" regarding 20 seconds of insane courage can change your life.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 20, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> It depends on how badly you want the job, rejection sucks but as to how much it sucks that directly depends on how badly you wanted whatever it is that you got rejected from.
> 
> You mention job interviews. When you apply to a job part of the process might involve an interview with some big CEO, somebody way up in the chain of command. No matter how well prepared you go in, there is always the chance you might embarrass yourself at the interview no matter how small. The only way to 100% guarantee you won't embarrass yourself at the interview is to not go to the interview, but then of course you won't get the job.


Ok. You want to be embarrassed, then be embarrassed.


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## Steve (Apr 20, 2020)

Flying Crane said:


> Ok. You want to be embarrassed, then be embarrassed.


Someone woke up cranky today.  Maybe @PhotonGuy 's post is hitting a little close to home.


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## Tames D (Apr 20, 2020)

This thread embarrasses me


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## Tez3 (Apr 21, 2020)

Tames D said:


> This thread embarrasses me



I'm embarrassed for the OP really. The assumption that everyone thinks like him so therefore he is correct in what he says is way off.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 21, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> I'm embarrassed for the OP really. The assumption that everyone thinks like him so therefore he is correct in what he says is way off.


Now Im embarrassed.


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## Tez3 (Apr 21, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Now Im embarrassed.



No one has to be embarrassed, it's your choice.


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## Martial D (Apr 21, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Sometimes you've got to embarrass yourself if you want to learn and progress since sometimes by embarrassing yourself, or at least taking the risk of doing so, is the only way to learn and progress.


I think this is what keeps a lot of people from joining a gym or club in the first place.


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## Steve (Apr 21, 2020)

If I wore this to class, I'd be embarrassed.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 21, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> No one has to be embarrassed, it's your choice.


Well the important thing is, I said what I had to say.


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## isshinryuronin (Apr 21, 2020)

I agree that embarrassment usually results from low self esteem, but some things are just plain embarrassing for anyone:  Giving a presentation and then noticing your fly is open, forgetting someone's name to whom you were just introduced, or walking into a glass door, for example.

The other category, concerning honest effort for a worthy cause, is not a place where embarrassment should arise.  Whether it's working out at a gym or dojo, job interview, or asking someone out on a date; failure or not measuring up (perceived or actual) should not be something to be embarrassed about - as long as that failure is not the result of lack of preparation or some boneheaded move.

Failure is a reality of life.  It happens.  To not fail is to not be challenged.  But as long as one does their best and strives to achieve, is should be a source of pride, not embarrassment, regardless of the result.  Rocky lost that first fight with Apollo, but was that a failure, to go the distance with the champ?  He gave it his all and Apollo did not prepare as he should have.  Who should be more embarrassed?  (I know Rocky is out of date - I was going to use an MMA champ, but couldn't think of one I could spell.)

Ego is the greatest obstacle.


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## Buka (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> If I wore this to class, I'd be embarrassed.



If I wore that to class I'd be awesome.

Well.....at least I'd have fun.


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## Steve (Apr 21, 2020)

Buka said:


> If I wore that to class I'd be awesome.
> 
> Well.....at least I'd have fun.


Yeah, but you're an old school american karate guy... you'd wear this and think it was cool:


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## drop bear (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> If I wore this to class, I'd be embarrassed.



So you are more of a no gi guy?


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## Buka (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> Yeah, but you're an old school american karate guy... you'd wear this and think it was cool:



Well, yeah! Hell, yeah!   

When I first competed we wore black gis, because that's what my school wore, you didn't have a choice, but we we liked them.

But on the New England circuit, we were considered absolute heathens for wearing black gis. I know that sounds stupid, but that's the way it was back then. Couldn't buy a point if your life depended on it. And when you tried to, shall we say, _emphasize_ your point....you were immediately DQ'd.

But we didn't complain, never got disrespectful, and man, sometimes that was difficult. But eventually we prevailed and were accepted. I think it helped that we were whoopin' the dog sheet out of them.

Anyway.....I wore that gi, Joe Lewis wore it winning the PKA championship, but it shrunk, so he gave it to me. I wore it representing my country. 



 
Proudest gi I ever wore. But it even shrunk too small for me. So I gave it to one of the kids in the dojo.



 

Man, if that gi could talk...


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## Steve (Apr 21, 2020)

Buka said:


> Well, yeah! Hell, yeah!
> 
> When I first competed we wore black gis, because that's what my school wore, you didn't have a choice, but we we liked them.
> 
> ...


I knew it!!!


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## Buka (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> I knew it!!!



Bwahahahaha!


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## Tames D (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve said:


> If I wore this to class, I'd be embarrassed.


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well the important thing is, I said what I had to say.



As long as you realise it's just your opinion, it's not a fact.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 23, 2020)

The following post is crammed full of cliches, but there is truth in them, so so be it. 

Embarrassment is entirely subjective.

I agree that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, but that doesn't mean you have to be embarrassed if you fail.

Most successful people recognise failure is a necessary step on the road to success. There is no shame in failure, and no reason to be embarrassed about it.

The problem is not the problem, the problem is your reaction to the problem.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2020)

Working at home full time is embarrassing.  My wife was on a conference call and my dog burped really loudly.   She was very embarrassed.   But most importantly, I was not.


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## Buka (Apr 23, 2020)

I've been turned down applying for jobs as much as anyone I've ever known. I used to apply for jobs I wasn't qualified for, just for sheets and giggles. I've applied for jobs, been turned down, then called later and got the job. I've even been laughed at, and laughed along with the interviewer. 

I was applying for a hospital police officer job back in the day. I'm honest and forthcoming on my resume, against the advice of some. The lady interviewer, the Chief of that particular department, said to me after reading my resume, "And what do you want to be when you grow up?"  I swear that's what she said. I replied, "Well, I see this has gone well, I should go." And I politely left.

Flash forward ten years. I'm a federal cop and she comes into our secure facility. She, of course, doesn't recognize me, but, oh, do I recognize her. I had called the section head when I saw her approach from afar, told him I know her and do not want her in our facility. He said no problem.

I got to send her away, and man,was she ticked off. Before she left I asked her, "So what do YOU want to be when you grown up? Hmmm?

She had no idea what I was talking about. Which told me everything I needed to know about her.


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## Tez3 (Apr 24, 2020)

Buka said:


> hospital police officer




You have that as a thing in the US? wow.


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## punisher73 (Apr 24, 2020)

Going back to the OP, I think there is something to be said of putting aside your ego when learning something new.  Also, that something worth learning is usually worth doing badly at first while learning (meaning you aren't going to be good right off the bat on something complex)

Let's use the example of riding a bicycle.  I'm not aware of anyone who, as a child, was able to hop on a bike without training wheels and start riding it around without falling.  Being a child, you don't have an ego and you keep learning and you keep falling until you get it right.  Think of an adult trying to learn a new task. Many times the ego is over involved and can't accept not being good at something, so the failure leads to embarrassment.

You don't HAVE to embarrass yourself though.  At no point of a learning/failure process do you need to be embarrassed.


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## granfire (Apr 24, 2020)

punisher73 said:


> Going back to the OP, I think there is something to be said of putting aside your ego when learning something new.  Also, that something worth learning is usually worth doing badly at first while learning (meaning you aren't going to be good right off the bat on something complex)
> 
> Let's use the example of riding a bicycle.  I'm not aware of anyone who, as a child, was able to hop on a bike without training wheels and start riding it around without falling.  Being a child, you don't have an ego and you keep learning and you keep falling until you get it right.  Think of an adult trying to learn a new task. Many times the ego is over involved and can't accept not being good at something, so the failure leads to embarrassment.
> 
> You don't HAVE to embarrass yourself though.  At no point of a learning/failure process do you need to be embarrassed.


It's probably a matter of 'don't take yourself too serious' 
Then you won't get as easily embarrassed...


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2020)

Ego isn't necessarily destructive.  It's inflated ego, where your self image is out of sync with your ability, that things go awry.  Personally, ego is just another way of saying self-esteem, and often embarrassment is a product of low self esteem.  Imposter syndrome or just fear of failure leads to embarrassment or a desire to avoid being embarrassed.  I think that's just as likely to be the culprit than overly inflated ego and lack of humility.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 15, 2020)

Put it this way, I will do what I've got to do even if I embarrass myself by doing it.


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## JowGaWolf (Aug 16, 2020)

PhotonGuy said:


> Sometimes you've got to embarrass yourself if you want to learn and progress since sometimes by embarrassing yourself, or at least taking the risk of doing so, is the only way to learn and progress.


Nothing to be embarrassed about if you are learning.  If you are learning then people should understand that you aren't going to be perfect.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 17, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> Nothing to be embarrassed about if you are learning.  If you are learning then people should understand that you aren't going to be perfect.


Sometimes I do feel embarrassed even if I know Im learning, that's just the price.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 13, 2020)

Lets say there's this girl I like. Now, I want to ask her out. By asking her out Im taking the risk of her saying no which might result in me being embarrassed but in my opinion its better to try, its better to ask her out and for her to say no and for me to be embarrassed as a result, than for me to not even try, for me to not ask her out at all.


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