# Competition Kenpo Forms



## brianhunter (Nov 13, 2002)

How do some of you select which form you will perform at a tournement or for competition and why? 

Do you select what form you are currently working for your belt level? 

Do you select a form that suits your way of performing the art?
(i.e. your a black belt who has long 5 but you really love short 3)


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 13, 2002)

Form 4 would be my guess as a competition form.


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## Nightingale (Nov 13, 2002)

I compete with a variation of long 2... higher kicks, and a leopardstrike at the end instead of an elbow. other than that, the same.  Just playing to the traditional judges a bit because they like stuff like that.  In a kenpo division, I do the form its original way.

I'd compete with 4 if I knew it.


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## Elfan (Nov 13, 2002)

I just like short form 1.  

Although if I went to a tournament I think I would do short 3 as some judges might not apreciate short 1.

It seems that form 4 is by far the most popular.


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## Nightingale (Nov 13, 2002)

Short 1 is a complex form, and often unappreciated.  It teaches a lot.


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## Klondike93 (Nov 13, 2002)

How come most kenposists feel the need to change the form when they compete with it?

I know a 4th degree here that uses a modified form 4 and wins with it all the time. Why not use the form unmodified, because it's not as flashy and usually doesn't win.

Now having said that, most TKD people will change their forms too, adding some flash to it.


:asian:


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## Nightingale (Nov 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *How come most kenposists feel the need to change the form when they compete with it?
> 
> ...




I modify Long 2 for the exact reason you quoted... because it makes it flashier and more likely to win.

In brown belt womens competition divisions, I always end up competing with the same people.  If I use the modified version of the form, I place higher CONSISTANTLY than if I use the unmodified version (I did it both ways several times with the same competitors to test the theory).  In a traditional kenpo division, however, I use the form in its original state...and usually lose to flashier Lima Lama forms done by the same girl who I had just beat in the open forms division with my modified form.  she does the same form in both divisions... I have no idea why Lima Lama forms are allowed in traditional KENPO... Lima Lama doesn't look like kenpo to me...( I thought kenpo was parker (or variations), Tracy (or variations) or chinese) but I'm probably wrong.

-N-


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## Hollywood1340 (Nov 13, 2002)

Fellow Artists,
 Should be noted if you change a form in a _traditional_ forms competition, you're pretty much out of the running. There is a diffrence


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## Nightingale (Nov 13, 2002)

provided you have judges from your style who know your form...

that said, I never alter a form in a traditional division.


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## Klondike93 (Nov 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Hollywood1340 _
> 
> *Fellow Artists,
> Should be noted if you change a form in a traditional forms competition, you're pretty much out of the running. There is a diffrence  *



Not qute true. I see "traditional" forms altered all the time and won with. You see the kicker is that very very few do a form by the book. Some will punch higher or kick higher to make themselves look a little better than the other person. Also you may have been taught the same form differently than the other person. In watching TKD forms I have seen at least 4 different versions of the basic white belt form Chon-Ji. So what is "traditional"?

At an open tournament the kenpo judge doesn't know the proper way to do a TKD form so a TKD judge wouldn't know how the kenpo form is to be done. So why not change it some to make it look a little cooler, they won't know anyways.


:asian:


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## Hollywood1340 (Nov 13, 2002)

That's what I do  I guess it's the tourney your at, would you agree?


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## Klondike93 (Nov 13, 2002)

I would agree. 

Go to a TKD tournament you better do it by the book (but even here do they really do it by the "book"?).

An open tournament, anything goes in my book, just have great stances, balance, power and focus to go with it.


:asian:


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## Nightingale (Nov 13, 2002)

at a lot of the tournaments I compete in:

traditional means: no gymnastics, and have a normal looking uniform

open: anything goes

traditional kenpo:  kenpo forms only...they usually try to find kenpo judges, which is nice.


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## Michael Billings (Nov 13, 2002)

Since I came out of TKD into Kenpo some 20+ years ago, all the forms were "traditional".  They had few modifications until the early 80's with musical and non-traditional forms (made up or modified specifically for tournament) entering the arena.  You know the cute kids with weapons, splits, and loud little kias.  

My instuctor encouraged us to use traditional forms, but let us blend two together.  An example was Finger Set (back then "Poison Hand Set") followed by Short #2 or Short #3.  This was the Soft then Hard sorta approach.  From personal experience, it was a winner.   As a Brown Belt I used Long #4 with my back up form being Poison Hand / Short #3.  At Black I used Tiger and Crane with Long #4 as backup.  Then finally I got the 6, which was another winner.  I would then be able to chose between Tiger and Crane, Long 4 or Long 6, depending on my competition.  My strategy was to play to the differences in style, so long as I felt strong that day.  Seemed to work.

Have fun in tournaments, I forgot how much I enjoyed them.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Dun Ringill (Nov 13, 2002)

Does anyone still do Poison Hand or Bookset that is of the Parker line?  Not specifically for competition but as a belt requirement?


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## Blindside (Nov 13, 2002)

I do Book Set, and since I come off the Tracy's I am of the Parker line.  It is a requirement for our Green Belt.  Book Set is still an official requirement for one of the Brown Belt ranks according to the Tracy homepage.

We also have a "Finger Set" and "Moving Finger Set."  The Tracy's don't seem to require them anymore, but our line diverged several decades back.

Lamont


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## Blindside (Nov 13, 2002)

> How come most kenposists feel the need to change the form when they compete with it?



Because we want to win.  On our circuit we don't have "kenpo only" divisions, we get lumped into the "soft style" divisions with the kungfu guys.  If you think going against a wushu stylist with virtually any kenpo form is a winning proposition, well good luck.  I actually don't compete with any of the "official" forms, I make up a tournament form instead.  It is mostly kenpo techs, but I throw in a bit of "animal" and a couple of high kicks.  I mix hard and soft, and have done pretty well in competition since I started competing.

Now that being said, I got beat last year by a guy doing Short 4, and damn he looked good doing it.  Of course he lost to the wushu guy, so what does that say.  Given a "straight" form, I would go with Short 6, Long 6, or Short 4.  I think that in many ways Long 4 is too long (for competition), and you have to modify it anyway or you spend half the time with your back to the judges.

Lamont


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 13, 2002)

Where are you getting all of the short forms at?


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## Blindside (Nov 13, 2002)

> Where are you getting all of the short forms at?



One of my instructors picked them up from an AK instructor several years ago. 

Lamont


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## bdparsons (Nov 13, 2002)

the IKCA Master Form.

Repects,
Bill Parsons


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## Michael Billings (Nov 13, 2002)

May still be taught by the National Chinese Kenpo Karate Association (NCKKA), or at least is was a few years ago.  That was an Ed Parker / Steven LaBounty / Gary Swan lineage.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## molson (Nov 14, 2002)

In my system we have short 4, 5 and 6 as requirements as well as the long forms of each. I usually compete with the same forms as Mr. Billings uses. Tiger, 4 or 6. Some times I will do Bookset or fingerset to long 2.  It also depends on who the judges are and what styles they practice.


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## AvPKenpo (Nov 14, 2002)

so to ask a Question.  This is the first time that I have heard the term "Book Set".  Which set is that?  

As far as doing forms for competition.  My highest form currently is Long 4.  I have won first with Long 3 and Short 4, and taken 4th with long 2, I lost to a fellow student, with whom I had tied with in 3rd place.   
I have only been to 5 tourneys in my 6 years.  Unfortunately  it seems I only get to go to one tourney a year, due to weekend work.  
My 2 favorite forms to date are Leopard and Short 4.  I will choose between these two for my next tournement.  Unless I have 5 by then.  

Michael


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## AvPKenpo (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *May still be taught by the National Chinese Kenpo Karate Association (NCKKA), or at least is was a few years ago.  That was an Ed Parker / Steven LaBounty / Gary Swan lineage.
> 
> ...



Poison Hand = Fingerset 1 or 2?

Michael


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## Michael Billings (Nov 14, 2002)

Poison Hand = Finger Set #1 (with some rotation to a forward for eye strikes)

Book Set = Leopard Set (More of an Okinawan style form brought into the system in the 60's.)

Realize, I am American Kenpo now.  Although I do retain some of the older sets, they are not necessary in my school.

Oos,
-Michael


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## RCastillo (Nov 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *How come most kenposists feel the need to change the form when they compete with it?
> 
> ...



No one respects traditional forrms anymore, unless you go to stirctly like an ITF tourny!

It's all about flash, and entertainment.:soapbox:


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## thesensei (Nov 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Dun Ringill _
> 
> *Does anyone still do Poison Hand or Bookset that is of the Parker line?  Not specifically for competition but as a belt requirement? *



I still use and teach the Bookset.  I don't think i would use it for competition, but i think it's great for developing strong stances, and mobility from strong stances.  

jb


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## Michael Billings (Nov 15, 2002)

I forgot that I used to use Book Set in competition along  with Long #4, prior to learning Tiger & Crane.  Ah, for the good old days again.

-Michael


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## ikenpo (Nov 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I forgot that I used to use Book Set in competition along  with Long #4, prior to learning Tiger & Crane.  Ah, for the good old days again.
> 
> -Michael *



Mr. B,

Thanks for sharing. It's always good to hear from the old school that did it....

Respectfully Yours, jbugg


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## brianhunter (Nov 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I forgot that I used to use Book Set in competition along  with Long #4, prior to learning Tiger & Crane.  Ah, for the good old days again.
> 
> -Michael *




Mr Billings,

     How hard would it be to convince you to put book set, tiger crane, or poison hands up on your web site???? I love your site I have used it for reference a lot! I would love to learn some "old school" forms

Brian Hunter


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 16, 2002)

I just came back form a local tournament around my area. There was one other kenpo person other than myself. He decided to participate I was there only to judge and see people that I have not seen for quite a while. Anyway he used and explosion short 3 when he was done everyone clapped and cheered. One of the judges gave him a 9.0 the rest were all sevens. Just goes to show you the local TKD guys don't really know what their looking at. He by far well deserved the first place trophy but instead didn't place at all.


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## ikenpo (Nov 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> 
> *I just came back form a local tournament around my area. There was one other kenpo person other than myself. He decided to participate I was there only to judge and see people that I have not seen for quite a while. Anyway he used and explosion short 3 when he was done everyone clapped and cheered. One of the judges gave him a 9.0 the rest were all sevens. Just goes to show you the local TKD guys don't really know what their looking at. He by far well deserved the first place trophy but instead didn't place at all.  *



Judging forms is so subjective you can't take it too personally. Hopefully he made up for it in sparring...lol :karate:

jb:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Nov 16, 2002)

> One of the judges gave him a 9.0 the rest were all sevens. Just goes to show you the local TKD guys don't really know what their looking at



Not surprised though. They're supposed to judge based on balance, focus, power stuff like that, but they usually base it on flash, high kicking etc..  I personally don't like to judge forms, it's hard to do it and get it right, but to go from a 9 to 7's that's just flat biased.


:asian:


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## molson (Nov 18, 2002)

Jason, 

That sounds like one of those Eastlake TKD tournaments I used to go to. The only way kenpo was going to win anything was to beat it out of them. Couldn't cheat when you were pounding on there heads.


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 18, 2002)

you could tell we were like the outsiders or something. These birds had their own groups and such. It was a smaller size tournament all of them were TKD related expect for the 2 of us. Personally  I think he should have compted with long 4 rather than short 3 but he did an excellent job at 3.


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## Hollywood1340 (Nov 18, 2002)

Fellow Artists,
 As a Teakata doing _traditional_ forms at an open tourney, I've noticed we dont do so well. Not enough stomping and neck snapping I guess :rofl:


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## Blindside (Nov 18, 2002)

What is a Teakata???  

Lamont


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## Nightingale (Nov 18, 2002)

I was wondering the same thing myself. Glad someone asked.


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## Hollywood1340 (Nov 18, 2002)

We're...um...tea...tea...um...Teakettles that practice Martial Arts. It's hard to crush head with a spout 

I of course meant Taekata, one who kicks high for no apparent reason other then to score these things called 'points'. Does nothing really to help us with either the ladies (Gentleman) or on the street, as I'm told 'points' don't count.


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## ikenpo (Nov 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *Mr. B,
> 
> ...



Trying to see if I can repost the one that got away...

jb:asian:


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## WhiteTiger (Dec 5, 2002)

Although it was not posted as an option Panter Set or Book Set is my form of choice in competition.


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 5, 2002)

I must say that I have only gone to kenpo only tourneys, and though there were some flashy forms, the winners were traditional forms. In Dublin European, it was Mr Collado with an awesome form (maybe long 6), and in Madrid IKKA Internationals it was Sergio Jódar (long 6), then Collado (also long 6) and Javier Arrabé (long 5). I am talking of the champion of champions here.

By the way, the only time I didn't do the form required for my degree was short 3, my fav so far. But now I'm beginning long 4, and I love it!


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## bahenlaura (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> *How do some of you select which form you will perform at a tournement or for competition and why?
> 
> Do you select what form you are currently working for your belt level?
> ...



 
Brian,

To answer your question, I should say you want to do a form that you feel most confortable with. I don't agree with changing the original form for the sake of trophy. I believe we need to stive to show the best that Kenpo has to offer through deligent and hard work. there are already alot of watered down versions of Kenpo around. We should not add to it.
I personally have won few comeptetions through out my Journy with short 1, short 2, short 3 and long 4. These have been in various tournies. from kenpo to tK to hard Japanies style. 
you get out of the Art what you put into it.

Your Brother in The Art
Burt 

:ultracool


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## KenpoDave (Jan 30, 2003)

My first tournament, I took first with an unmodified Short #3.  Did the same thing only better a month later at the Battle of Atlanta, did not even place.

My favorite form is Long #2 followed closely by #4 and #6.


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoDave _
> *...  Did the same thing only better a month later at the Battle of Atlanta, did not even place.*



How was your experience and thoughts on the battle of atlanta? I haven't had the opportunity to ever go and heard nothing but good stories.


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## Sifu DangeRuss (Mar 4, 2003)

I have always selected the form I am to compete with, based upon who the judges are lined up before me.  This also has a dramatica bearing on how i interpret whichever form I use.  If I'm facing down a line of stiff, white gis with bold rising sun patches, then my form becomes decidedly harder, the kiai's a bit louder, the technique groupings more delineated.  

If on the other hand the majority of the judges have V-Necked TKD tops, then the kicks are super-emphasized.  

Frog buttoned chinese tops call for fluidity and continuity and often also means that I can perform a much more complex form without being penalized.  Kiais are replaced with silent calm. 


Majority rules.  That is one of the truly great aspects of our style of martial art, being neither exclusively hard, nor soft...it is open to a broad range of interpretations and yet may still remain faithful to it's Kenpo roots.  If you are competing to win, this is wise to keep in mind.  Otherwise, perhaps you should simply sign-up for a demo at half-time, then you may perform it as you feel it should be done.

Now, that being said, my own experience and observation is this, whatever form you choose (within reason), if it is performed correctly, with proper power, proper focus, correct balance and techniques enunciated clearly enough that anyone watching can see what it is you are doing, and that you have clearly won your mock confrontation(s)...then it will generally be recognized accordingly.  The key is performing each and every move as if your very life depended upon it, and make your audience/judges believe it does as well.  When you can sell that, then any form can become a winning form.


:soapbox:​


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## Ronin (Mar 9, 2003)

About 15 years ago back when tournaments had like 30- 50 guys in division.  I remember competing with short one and short two.  Just when I thought I was doing good then along came a kung-fu/ wu shu guy and flipped around like a ninja.  Those were neat to watch an always beat out us kenpo guys.  Not till short 3 was shown did it seem the kenpo kids started to win.  I remember some kenpo guys learned "the tiger and crane" just to compete.  Not to downplay any kenpo forms thats just my experience.  I think the more advance forms  really can kick butt if applied with zeal.


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## stacks (Mar 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> *How do some of you select which form you will perform at a tournement or for competition and why?
> 
> Do you select what form you are currently working for your belt level?
> ...



selecting a form for a tournement should of the heart, in the ten years I have been training and all the competitions I have been to I find that you should choose the one you like best. I do not do form 4 because it has been over done by kenpoist. the form should be done in its traditional way without modifying it. if you have 2 kenpo guys doing the same form and 1 has changed it somewhere I will notice it as well as the judges and you may lose points. if you are a black belt you do not have to do the hardest or fanciest form because you think it is expected of you, do what you do best (I like long 3) 

stacks


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## Elfan (Apr 8, 2003)

Long 3 seems to be the least popular of the "cool high belt forms."  Especially compared to form 4.  Anyone have thoughts on why this is?


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## brianhunter (Apr 8, 2003)

In my opinion its a lot of stopping and starting (point of origin i guess), long 4 has a good flow from beggining to end and long 3 just doesnt look as pleasing to the untrained eye. Ive only learned half of long 4 so I don't have an expert opinion by any means. Long 3 is a good solid form with lots of value but as far as tourneys go it doesnt seem as exploisive as say short 3 or long 4.


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## stacks (Apr 8, 2003)

form 4 and long 3 are good competitons forms, i justed returned from the Tiger Balm Internationals and performed long 3 and received a bronze medal. there are other great forms to choose from such as form 5 and form 6 they also are entertaining as well (one of my students did form 5 last year at the same tournament and received a gold medal)  do what you want to do not what you think the judges want to see 

stacks  :karate:


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## Kenpomachine (Apr 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> *Long 3 seems to be the least popular of the "cool high belt forms."  Especially compared to form 4.  Anyone have thoughts on why this is? *



Maybe because most of long 3 is very similar to short 3 o rsomewhat repetitive or iterative, while short 4 is _completely_ new?


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## molson (Apr 9, 2003)

I have competed with Tiger and the crane, form 6 even fingerset to long2. Bookset was a favorite under black. 

I went to a tournament once and competed using form 6. I thought I did extremely well and when the scores came I got all 8's except the last judge who gave me a 5. After the event I asked why he gave me a 5. He said that the form was great but I didn't ask permission to begin... Go figure....


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jul 28, 2003)

Tiger & Crane:  so much prettier than the numbered sets...


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## Rainman (Feb 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka _
> *Tiger & Crane:  so much prettier than the numbered sets... *



  It ain't the form old fat jujitsuka.   It's what the guy knows who is doing the form.   Sets are appendices of motion- forms are encyclopedias of motion. :moon:


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## rmcrobertson (Feb 10, 2004)

I find Long 2 and Long 3 the most mysterious forms in kenpo...on some weird level, I feel that I understand Long 6 nbetter than either of them...and I am a BIG fan of Long 2.

maybe that's it...or maybe it's that they're the least kenpo-like of all kenpo forms...


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## pete (Feb 11, 2004)

> maybe it's that they're the least kenpo-like of all kenpo forms... rmcrobertson



before i disagree, i'd like to understand your rationale for Long-2 being any less Kenpo-like than some other forms.  I find Long-2 to be a perfect example of the linear within the circular, and lends itself to continous movement, like water flowing.


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## rmcrobertson (Feb 11, 2004)

Well, one answer is that Long 2 and Long 3 contain some movements that aren't found elsewhere in the system. It's my understanding that Long 2 was the last of the, "Chinese," forms that Jimmy Wing Woo worked extensively on.

Another is that while I like both forms quite a lot, I find them mysterious, as I noted. And the description you gave, Pete, is a lot easier to realize in Long 4 or Long 6 than either of these forms.

Of course, I got a good close look at Mr. Tatum's Long 1 last year...all of it...I'm still a little depressed by the fact that it was about three times as graceful and, "flowing," as the way I do Long 6.


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## pete (Feb 11, 2004)

Long-2 the movements from one technique feed directly into the next where your posture, weighting, and direction enhance continuous motion. Conversely,  in Long-3 many movements return you into a horse stance, causing a double-weighted effect, which delineates each technique as a distinct exercise and hinders continous motion.  

Long-4 is more like a combination of Long-2 and Long-3, since we do techniques from  sides, but where symmetry allows a flow of continuity.  

I'd let you know my take on Long-6, but I should first learn it!


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Feb 11, 2004)

Long 3 has got to be the most boring Kata to watch--for the reasons Pete mentioned.  Making it worse is that almost everything is done twice.  Short 3 combined with Mass Attack is about the same length as Long 3 and much more interesting to watch in a tournament.

Long 4, and Long 6 are fast enough to be exciting even when not performed exceptionally well.  Long 5 is really hard to make pretty--but when done well, it is really cool.

Book Set and Tiger & Crane are even more exciting than the numbered forms when the movements are elongated, stances are lowered, and timing is varied much as originally done by the Kung Fu guys.


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## Thesemindz (Feb 12, 2004)

What do you guys think of Mass Attacks? Would you do it at competition? It's got some complicated kick combinations as well as some cool stance work, and it travels all over the place. 


-Rob


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Feb 12, 2004)

Like I just said above:  

Combine Short 3 and Mass Attack instead of doing Long 3.  

If I had to rank MY preferences for Kenpo Katas for tournaments it would be like this:

1)  Tiger & Crane
2)  Parker Long 6
3)  Long 4
4)  Book Set
5)  Long 5
6)  Tam Tui (don't see this one too often)
7)  2-Man set (done solo)
8)  Short 3 + Mass Attack
9)  Tracy's Long 6 (don't see this one too often either)
10) Long 3

Just my opinion on what I enjoy watching.


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## Thesemindz (Feb 13, 2004)

OFK, you mention that you like to see Two Man done solo, is this just in competition because it is one person at a time, or do you prefer solo as a form compared to with another person. At our school, this set is taught as a solo form, then combined with another person, and when performed either way, each student performs both sides. When done solo, do you perform both sides?

-Rob


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## Maltair (Feb 13, 2004)

brianhunter said:
			
		

> How do some of you select which form you will perform at a tournement or for competition and why?
> 
> Do you select what form you are currently working for your belt level?
> 
> ...



Current belt level. I won second place with Long 1 at my first tourny


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Feb 13, 2004)

Thesemindz:

Like you, I learned the form solo and perform it both solo and with a partner.  Always do both sides either solo or with a partner.

I tried it in Brown Belt competition once.  I think somebody else did Long 3 so they scored lower than me.  Everyone else did 4 or Book Set and scored much higher.  But that was more than 20 years ago and with no trophy, the memory is a little fuzzy...


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## 8253 (Mar 10, 2004)

just do one your comfortable with, if you do it correctly then you should score well.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 10, 2004)

I am in awe of all of you. I have learned, forgot, re-learned, and re-forgot the Kenpo forms.  Tough time remembering where I put my keys, much less which direction to pop off to next to perform what technique.  Can usually only keep them in my head short-term (i.e., testing season), then gone. Might be time for some Alzheimers meds.


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## TIGER DRAGON FIGHT (Jun 28, 2004)

i like invicible wall which is taught at 2nd black in our system of kempo. 

for tournament i go with a form that has alot of flash and strong kicks like hon su ki.


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## donald (Sep 4, 2004)

Mr.Billings etc.,

My former instructor encouraged the blending/modification of our kenpo forms to make them more appealing to those not in the know. At tournements, especially those populated by more traditional judges. We had to modify, or die. Back then alot of judges had no knowledge of kenpo. They did not understand our checks, techniques, nothing. Therfore we had to adjust our forms, with longer lock outs etc.. I remember when a winning  kenpo forms practioner was a big deal on the national scene. Anyone remember Brian Fung(Fong sp?)?

Salute in Christ,


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## Blindside (Sep 4, 2004)

Well this is an old thread....

In the (almost) two years since I last posted on this thread, I have shifted to Long 6 as my competition form and have done pretty well, though I am still losing to that Wushu guy.  :uhyeah: But starting this year the Excel Karate League is offering kenpo-only divisions for the Black Belt competitors, now I just have to beat my instructor.  

Lamont


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## Ceicei (Sep 4, 2004)

When I went to compete in a tournament back in 1986, I had a customized form.  My instructor modified a form and added in some moves, then had me practice it for hours for several weeks until I had it all perfectly, including kiais that were loud enough (he didn't want squeaks).  When I did that form in the tournament, I came in third place.  Not bad for a yellow belt.  I can't remember the name my instructor gave that form.  As years went by and I looked back on it, I realized he had thrown in some blue/green belt tech variations in that custom form.  The judges were all from different styles, so I guess they were impressed enough.  

- Ceicei


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## dmdfromhamilton (Jan 8, 2005)

been a long time but how come nobody has used the ikca form? It looks awesome in my opinion.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 9, 2005)

dmdfromhamilton said:
			
		

> been a long time but how come nobody has used the ikca form? It looks awesome in my opinion.



That's your opinion.  Um, my opinion is that hip bumps and head butts to the rear look dorky and won't win competitions.


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (Jan 10, 2005)

Old Fat Kenpoka said:
			
		

> That's your opinion. Um, my opinion is that hip bumps and head butts to the rear look dorky and won't win competitions.


They may LOOK Dorky, but they are very effective.    I still teach them to use in irregular situations, the whole body is a weapon you know, and oddly enough, you can use them on the ground effectively as well.  

DarK LorD


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 10, 2005)

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
			
		

> They may LOOK Dorky, but they are very effective.    I still teach them to use in irregular situations, the whole body is a weapon you know, and oddly enough, you can use them on the ground effectively as well.
> 
> DarK LorD



No argument here Clyde.  I agree completely about the effectiveness of head butts (got my nose broken by a toddler once) and the importance of head placement and hip bumps on the ground.  

But this thread is about forms in competition.  And I stand firm in my position that the IKCA form looks dorky and is a bad choice for Kata competition.


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## dubljay (Jan 27, 2005)

I happen to like Long 3 quite a bit, partly because it is my strongest form, but also there is no flash in it whatsoever.  I know none of the other forms are "flashy" like some ive seen.  However IMO the techniques in 3 are the most brutally effective and very simple to show power.  I know Long 4 is more rounded and contains all the concepts and principles of Kenpo where as the 3's are designed around grab attacks.


 I feel that any form can be made a competition form.  Good judges dont look for flashy stuff, they look for enthusiasim, proper techniqe and foot work, and definition of power.

 The form you choose to do should reflect your skill/"belt" level.  However I have seen a blue belt win his division with a very impressive Long 2.


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 27, 2005)

Agreed.  

You might consider degree of difficulty as well.  Given two performances displaying equal enthusiasm, proper technique and footwork, and definition of power, the more difficult Kata will deserve the higher score.  And, it will be more interesting to watch.  Certainly, 4 is more difficult than 3.  6 is more difficult than 4.  And, while 6 is more difficult than 5 to perform, I would argue that 5 is more difficult to make pretty than 6 because of the complexity of footwork.


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## BlackIce (Oct 11, 2005)

Kenpo Greetings,
I actively compete on The N.B.L. circuit and The Kenpo / ploynesian division is a strange bird for the following reasons:
1. most of the judges are Jap. Karate or TKD.
2. Okinawian Kenpo froms are allowed ( but there is a Jap. / Oki. division)
3.We are supposed to do unaltered Kenpo,KaJuKenBo,Lima Lama,etc. Forms and that never happens.

What I do is Begin with The Creed into Finger Set into Long 2 enphasizing Speed and Power. Ialso exagerate the stances and perform it at an Off Rhythem. The rapid and accurate hand strikes win over alot of Traditoinal Judges. When Karate people judge Kenpo they expect to see speed and power regaurdless of the form so give them what they want. Let your hand speed be your FLASH!

Kenpo Salute​Tyrone Tablada​


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## Southwell (Oct 13, 2005)

I just competed at the Canadian Open Martial arts challenge last weekend and did Long 2, being the only Kenpo guy there I was pleased at winning third.


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