# Old Arnis?



## Zepp (Jan 20, 2003)

This is an honest question from someone with only a little bit of exposure to FMA.  Was there an "ancient" or "not-so-modern" arnis, as opposed to what you guys train in now?  If there was, how did it differ?


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## Cruentus (Jan 20, 2003)

Yes there was Ancient "Arnis," although it would have been called something else because Words like Arnis and Eskrima all came from spanish influence, and "Kali" is also more of a "modern" term.

When this Forum refers to "Modern Arnis," It is specifically refering to the Filipino Martial Art created by Professor Remy Presas. Modern Arnis is probably the most widely practiced Filipino martial art at least in America, and probably world-wide. That's why there is the seperation between "Modern Arnis" and "Filipino Martial Arts" here on MartialTalk. 

Now in terms of "Ancient Arnis" There are other systems out there that claim a more "old" way of doing things, but all have been influenced, developed, and "systemized" within the last 100 years or so. I'll let someone else who does one of these other systems clarify a little more, but really they are all "contemporary" today.

This is due to the unfortunate suppression of Filipino Martial Arts and Culture by the Spanish Government, and the lack of written records. The pure "ancient" forms of filipino martial arts have been lost, and the contemporary stuff is all we have left.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 20, 2003)

One of the new ideas that Modernized the Art that GM Remy Presas was trying to teach was his teaching method of sticking the opponents stick instead of the opponent. During the Middle portion of the last century the Philippine Islands were going through a period of trying to tone down the violence and preach to a modern society of being less violent. By Practicing against the opponents stick young people and children could do this art without serious injury. Do not get me wrong, the Old Masters/ Manong's all would bang stick to stick, but this was because their techniques and timing were good enough to block one another. And one missed the other one would be hit, and many times knocked out.

So, if you practice against the opponents stick and then translate the angle to the opponents body so that later when your timing and execution levels are better you can practice against the person without seriously injuring them when that was not your intent.

Just Bits and pieces of knowledge I have put together from a few books, and talking to the late GM Remy Presas, Manong (GM) Ted Buot and others.


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## dearnis.com (Jan 20, 2003)

One way to draw the distinction might be "classical" versus Modern Arnis.  
Of course one might say that with the passing of Professor Presas we are now in the age of post-Modern Arnis.
What it mostly boils down to is "Modern Arnis" was the name chosen by Professor to set the art he formulated out of various classical styles apart; it was modern in part because he designed it so that it could be taught easily in a group setting.
Chad
And I gotta say, I kind of like the term "not-so-modern" arnis..


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## Zepp (Jan 20, 2003)

Thanks for the clarification guys.


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## lhommedieu (Jan 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> 
> 
> Now in terms of "Ancient Arnis" There are other systems out there that claim a more "old" way of doing things, but all have been influenced, developed, and "systemized" within the last 100 years or so. I'll let someone else who does one of these other systems clarify a little more, but really they are all "contemporary" today.
> ...


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## ace (Jan 21, 2003)

How Do We Keep Modern Arnis,Modern?????//////?????
Now That Profecer is in heaven. God Bless his Soul.
                                                   _______________
Do We look  to other F.M.A.??
Do We look to other arts????

What Would Profecer Say???

I imagen he would say Learn to make the Conection.
I think he would want us to continue building
on the Art he left for us all.


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## Dan Anderson (Jan 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *How Do We Keep Modern Arnis,Modern?????//////?????
> Now That Profecer is in heaven. God Bless his Soul.
> _______________
> ...



I'd say, as a martial artist, do what he did.  In short, he never stopped learning.  Those are footsteps I'll walk in.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cebu West (Jan 22, 2003)

Many of Professor's high ranked students are turning to Balintawak to gain new depth into the roots of Modern Arnis. Researching and learning some of the old styles that Professor used as bases for Modern Arnis and expanding on them is a good way to stretch the art and move foreword in the progression of Modern Arnis. Knowing the roots of the art will help with expanding it in the future.

SAL


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## ace (Jan 23, 2003)

Beening a Student(Black Belt)
Under Datu Hartman i to have seen this.

It was My understanding that Remy
Created Modern Arnis to Defeat Balintawak.

But to beat it we have to know what it is about.
I see it as a corto styel full of sweet moves.
I feel for my self i prefer Largo Mano
but enjoy the training.


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## modarnis (Jan 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *I'd say, as a martial artist, do what he did.  In short, he never stopped learning.  Those are footsteps I'll walk in.
> 
> Yours,
> Dan Anderson *



So very true Dan.  Professor learned by doing, learned through his teaching and learned from watching everyone in a room.  He provided so many tools to us implicitly.  He was masterful at teaching beginners through positive reinforcement. It still shocks me that so many among us gloss over his message which was to train and have fun

A few points that may draw fire:

1.  The Professor provided us with the tools to master his art.  He left it to us to explore the order and intensity of their use

2.  I believe he purposely left many of the connections out so that we could reproduce his learning process as closely as possible given our cultural constraints.  Truth is, he initially learned his lessons the hard way.

3.  He encouraged us to change partners and explore his art so we can learn what applies best to different opponents.  At his level he did this through observation and frequent training.

4.  Most of all, he fostered an air of community and friendship where ideas were exchanged, friendships were forged, and people had fun.  

Just a few random thoughts

Brett


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## dearnis.com (Jan 24, 2003)

a lot in that last post.
good stuff.


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