# does anyone understand processors ?



## jobo (Nov 12, 2019)

In short i've bought a new toy, a dell all in one computer, Off the worlds worse con man, He was trying to pass it off as 2017 machine running to perfection, when in fact its a 2012 machine with soft ware issues. Whilst only charging what would be a very fair price for a 2012 machine, $70. The lack of USB 3 gave it away, but i bought it anyway

I was going to reinstall windows 7, which he had replaced with windows 10, but after running malware soft ware and removing 800, [ EIGHT HUNDRED] adwares, Malwares, pups and god knows what else its running just fine.

its got an i3 processor and 4g of ram( which is easy to upgrade] and I really should leave it alone as I wanted it as a music player/ storage device and the high res audio out of it is superb.

But I have to mess, which brings me to processors, My understanding is, that as it was designed to run the i5 and the 17 processors as option, up grading them to such is easy

However I cant find clear answer to the following.

Is it only processors of the same generation that will work, The socket spec hasn't changed for several generation later ?

Will I have to update the bios, I would need to download this before changing over ?
And where i'm really getting muggy, is an i5 processor( my local shop has a 2nd gen for sale at a very reasonable price}  with a lower clock speed an upgrade or a down grade ?
My current processor is 3.3 Ghz and the potential replacement is only 3 Ghz, but obviously with double the cores and hyper threading. So will that translate into real world performance gain, considering all i use it for is playing music, internet browsing and playing  old games on or should I just leave it alone ? and go and mess with the mountain bike instead


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## MetalBoar (Nov 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> In short i've bought a new toy, a dell all in one computer, Off the worlds worse con man, He was trying to pass it off as 2017 machine running to perfection, when in fact its a 2012 machine with soft ware issues. Whilst only charging what would be a very fair price for a 2012 machine, $70. The lack of USB 3 gave it away, but i bought it anyway
> 
> I was going to reinstall windows 7, which he had replaced with windows 10, but after running malware soft ware and removing 800, [ EIGHT HUNDRED] adwares, Malwares, pups and god knows what else its running just fine.
> 
> ...


I'd need some specifics about the socket and chip set of the motherboard and the model number of the processor to give you a complete answer. I expect the short answer, for what you want to do, is increase the RAM to 8GB (or more, but 8GB is probably plenty) if you can get it for a decent price and leave the processor alone. The next thing I'd consider is swapping the old spinning platter style hard drive it most likely has for a modern SSD (solid state drive), they've come way down in price and make a huge difference in disk I/O that can make an old machine feel like new. Finally, if you still want to upgrade the hardware further, I probably wouldn't bother to change processors unless you could get a good deal on an i5 or better still an i7 with a faster clock speed than 3.3 Ghz or at least with a turbo boost clock speed of more than 3.3Ghz and even then I'm not positive you'll notice much difference. Most of the things you want to use it for aren't going to take advantage of more than a couple of cores anyway so (based on the information I have) I wouldn't give up clock speed to get more cores and the i3 architecture isn't that much different than the i5 or i7 otherwise. Upgrading the RAM and hard drive should be very easy, upgrading the processor isn't hard, but there's a little more to it than just plugging it in.

If you'd like better performance without spending money I'd really recommend formatting the hard drive and reinstalling Windows 10 clean. Not even considering the fact that it's hard to really get rid of all the malware on a compromised computer, as Windows ages it gets what is referred to in the industry as "bit rot". The registry and system files get bloated and little bits of corruption happen and this goes doubly for anything that was full of malware, even if you got it all out. Just blowing it all out completely and reinstalling can make a huge difference on an old machine. Of course, make sure you have backed up everything you care about and that you have some way to reinstall any software that you want to have on the new installation.

The only other thing I'd think about is switching from Windows to a lean distribution of Linux, but it will probably take work to be able to play your old games on it and you'd have to learn a new OS. If you want to tinker with it though it will likely be significantly faster on old hardware and give you a lot of power to make the machine do what you want the way you want. If you just want it to be an appliance then I would stick with Windows for your use case.

Just let me know if you have any questions and I'll see what I can do to answer them.


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## jobo (Nov 12, 2019)

MetalBoar said:


> I'd need some specifics about the socket and chip set of the motherboard and the model number of the processor to give you a complete answer. I expect the short answer, for what you want to do, is increase the RAM to 8GB (or more, but 8GB is probably plenty) if you can get it for a decent price and leave the processor alone. The next thing I'd consider is swapping the old spinning platter style hard drive it most likely has for a modern SSD (solid state drive), they've come way down in price and make a huge difference in disk I/O that can make an old machine feel like new. Finally, if you still want to upgrade the hardware further, I probably wouldn't bother to change processors unless you could get a good deal on an i5 or better still an i7 with a faster clock speed than 3.3 Ghz or at least with a turbo boost clock speed of more than 3.3Ghz and even then I'm not positive you'll notice much difference. Most of the things you want to use it for aren't going to take advantage of more than a couple of cores anyway so (based on the information I have) I wouldn't give up clock speed to get more cores and the i3 architecture isn't that much different than the i5 or i7 otherwise.
> 
> If you'd like better performance without spending money I'd really recommend formatting the hard drive and reinstalling Windows 10 clean. Not even considering the fact that it's hard to really get rid of all the malware on a compromised computer, as Windows ages it gets what is referred to in the industry as "bit rot". The registry and system files get bloated and little bits of corruption happen and this goes doubly for anything that was full of malware, even if you got it all out. Just blowing it all out completely and reinstalling can make a huge difference on an old machine. Of course, make sure you have backed up everything you care about and that you have some way to reinstall any software that you want to have on the new installation.
> 
> ...


thanks for that , its saved me some grief and money, there's a 4ghz 17 for sale in the same shop, but its 3 times more than i paid for the computer, so il pass on that.

il do some digging on chip set etal and come back, if thats OK ?


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 12, 2019)

What's the model # of the all in one Dell that you purchased?


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## jobo (Nov 12, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> What's the model # of the all in one Dell that you purchased?


its a dell vostro 360


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## MetalBoar (Nov 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> thanks for that , its saved me some grief and money, there's a 4ghz 17 for sale in the same shop, but its 3 times more than i paid for the computer, so il pass on that.
> 
> il do some digging on chip set etal and come back, if thats OK ?


Actually now that I know the dell model number I can go look at all of that. I'll post again if it suggests anything different from my original post.


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## jobo (Nov 12, 2019)

MetalBoar said:


> Actually now that I know the dell model number I can go look at all of that. I'll post again if it suggests anything different from my original post.


ta


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> its a dell vostro 360


What's the maximum you want to spend on a computer for the purpose you describe.  Trying to figure out possible cost to upgrade it to your expectations.  As someone stated before you definitely want to install an SSD hard drive and upgrade it to max Ram which looks like 8GB of RAM based on the specs.  I'm not sure if what motherboards will fit that model of dell.  If possible you want to have at least and i5 or i7 processor if you choose to run Windows. (I know it's been stated already, just thinking things through and sharing what's going on in my mind at the moment).  

If you choose to stick with the Windows 7 OS then you may be able to upgrade to Windows 10 for free. This link has some information about that..  This free Windows 10 upgrade offer still works. Here's why -- and how to get it | ZDNet

Take the maximum price  you are willing to pay for a computer and then compare that with the possible cost of an upgrade.



jobo said:


> I wanted it as a music player/ storage device and the high res audio out of it is superb.


  This comment is making me think more about investing in a USB thumb drive or an external hard for storage depending on what you are trying to store.  With an external you can get 1 TB for around $50 if you are just looking for storage. It may give you the flexibility to use it with different devices.  

Depending on how much it might cost you to bring this one up to speed, you might be better off buying a refurbished computer from a trusted store that costs the same amount that it will cost you to update this one. There's just a lot of ways you can approach this.

When you say old games, what type of games are you thinking about using with the computer.  The game requirement will probably be among the deciding factors. 
At minimum SSD and RAM up to 8GB.  At work I'm currently involved with a Windows 10 upgrade project and the company is trying to squeeze the last drop out of old tech.  Our minimum requirements for our dells are SSD, I5 processor, and 8GB RAM.  anything less than that has trouble running multiple Excel spreadsheets.


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## jobo (Nov 12, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> What's the maximum you want to spend on a computer for the purpose you describe.  Trying to figure out possible cost to upgrade it to your expectations.  As someone stated before you definitely want to install an SSD hard drive and upgrade it to max Ram which looks like 8GB of RAM based on the specs.  I'm not sure if what motherboards will fit that model of dell.  If possible you want to have at least and i5 or i7 processor if you choose to run Windows. (I know it's been stated already, just thinking things through and sharing what's going on in my mind at the moment).
> 
> If you choose to stick with the Windows 7 OS then you may be able to upgrade to Windows 10 for free. This link has some information about that..  This free Windows 10 upgrade offer still works. Here's why -- and how to get it | ZDNet
> 
> ...


my general philosophy is that with a bit of patience you can get almost anything for almost nothing, in lots of cases for actually nothing. So I want to spend next to nothing, which is why I bought it in the first place. its got a 500 gig hard drive on it, well a 400 gig and a 100 gig. and i've already filled that with music i found lying about on the internet and had to buy a 1TB ssd to plug in the back of it

The real reason i bought it is it has a DACS amp that resolves 24 bit 196 high res music, it's really i very very big music player and the sound out of it played through the stereo is stunningly good 

once i actually decided what if anything i intend to upgrade, il pick up the bits cheaply, eventually.

The i3 is actually surprisingly nippy, im sure an i5 will turn up, if i can find which ones will fit but its got laptop ram in it, and that's a good bit harder to find second hand, i've been playing with the idea of sticking android on it, but that may mess up the drivers for the audio


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 12, 2019)

jobo said:


> my general philosophy is that with a bit of patience you can get almost anything for almost nothing, in lots of cases for actually nothing. So I want to spend next to nothing, which is why I bought it in the first place. its got a 500 gig hard drive on it, well a 400 gig and a 100 gig. and i've already filled that with music i found lying about on the internet and had to buy a 1TB ssd to plug in the back of it
> 
> The real reason i bought it is it has a DACS amp that resolves 24 bit 196 high res music, it's really i very very big music player and the sound out of it played through the stereo is stunningly good
> 
> ...


Yeah I wouldn't mess with android.  After learning about the DACS amp I would be very cautious about a clean OS install.  Technically you should be able to get old drivers, but, you never know.  The older a computer is the less of a guarantee that there will be drivers available.

This is the Dell specs page for that computer Support for Vostro 360 | Documentation | Dell US

Do you have a model # for the DACS amp?

I just checked ebay and some of the RAM for that model computer costs half of what you got the computer for.  About $20 for  1 4GB stick..  The motherboards are more expensive than I thought they would be.


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## jobo (Nov 13, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> Yeah I wouldn't mess with android.  After learning about the DACS amp I would be very cautious about a clean OS install.  Technically you should be able to get old drivers, but, you never know.  The older a computer is the less of a guarantee that there will be drivers available.
> 
> This is the Dell specs page for that computer Support for Vostro 360 | Documentation | Dell US
> 
> ...


yes it become complicated, the audio is just described as Dell high res audio, though then almost certainly didn't make the dacs app, its probably purpose designed for Dell machines and SHOULD therefore be available from dell. though if I do loose the drivers that reduces the use of the machine to me considerably, so if I do a fresh install a
il test it by partitioning the hard drive and doing dual( or if I want to play with android or linux) quad boot. though a new ssd will need me to clone the original hard drive if the drivers arnt available and that pushing my expertise  some what

it's more or less a big laptop in design, meaning it's far from easy to modify parts as it always has to fit in the same space as the small one designed to be small to fit all the works into a small space. so second hand stuff is likely to be scarce or expensive or both and new stuff only available at premium price from dell

I'm only messing with it for something to do, if I suddenly  decided I want to play games it's far easier to pick up a ps3 for 30$ than upgrade  this to do the same job, but I like retro games, mid 2000 stuff rather than the hyper realism gpu killers of the modern age


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## JowGaWolf (Nov 15, 2019)

How's the project going for you? @jobo


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## jobo (Dec 8, 2019)

JowGaWolf said:


> How's the project going for you? @jobo


srry missed this

the project is going very slowly, ive got a load of domestic issues, and im so busy not sorting them out i'm not doing anything else

they should be resolved by christmas, so i can devote some attention to this and my fitness project

Ive been looking and H solid HD and ram are cheap enough new to make it pointless buying second hand, So january sales im there and we will see if we can crank it up a bit There was a 2nd gen i7 for sale at a very reasonable price, but i messed about and it was sold

On the bright side its actually running acceptably well, a little laggy sometimes, but only sometimes

and on my '' you can get almost anything for almost nothing'' thing i've picked up a wharfedale graphic equaliser for 15 dollars, it cost me twice as much for the leads, which was a bit annoying. and the sound out of it now, through my 70 dollar computer and through my 500 dollar amp and speaker combo, that i got for 50$ is little short of amazing. only took me two years to find one. they seem something of a raraty now. though i suspect it actual benefit is boosting all the signals i cant hear properly with my aging ears, which is anything over 5 khzs


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