# Big Guys



## kuniggety (Apr 29, 2015)

I have been doing BJJ for ~ 2 years now. I haven't been promoted to blue belt yet but I'm starting to hang with a lot of the blues belts and can, for the most part, wipe the mat with most of the other white belts. There is a new guy that is about 315 lbs. I am 195 lbs and as basically the only other "big guy" I've been rolling with him a few times. I am having trouble pulling off anything on him. I've taken his back and gone for RNCs and bow and arrow chokes with no avail because of no discernable neck as soon as he lowers his chin. I've gone for arm bars and because he is so big and strong, he can hold on enough to hold on with his other hand and I can't even break it by bracing with my inner arm around his leg and holding onto his belt for support and using my outer leg to push on his arm. I've tried to triangle him but I can't slide my foot up under my knee for a solid lock because he is too big. I actually got foot locked by him the other day because he trapped my foot between his legs and no matter what I did I couldn't get it back out and, after going for a transition, it put it into a worse position and he was just crushing my foot. I was wondering what peoples' go to moves were for folks when they're completely outclassed in size?


----------



## drop bear (Apr 29, 2015)

You need to create angles in your guard. Especially to make that triangle work.

With the arm bar you can roll off towards his head rather than straight back. Or kick him with your thigh untill he lets go.

And if you cant get their neck either face crush them or transition to an arm bar. 

I tend to keylock big guys as they generally have crap shoulders.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 29, 2015)

When someone is way bigger than me I stay away from the mount and work crossbody more.  Like drop bear said I also attack their shoulders with bent arm locks and reverse bent arm locks.


----------



## Touch Of Death (Apr 29, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You need to create angles in your guard. Especially to make that triangle work.
> 
> With the arm bar you can roll off towards his head rather than straight back. Or kick him with your thigh untill he lets go.
> 
> ...


Create Angles? I thought you said you were a run straight into the punches guy.


----------



## kuniggety (Apr 29, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You need to create angles in your guard. Especially to make that triangle work.
> 
> With the arm bar you can roll off towards his head rather than straight back. Or kick him with your thigh untill he lets go.
> 
> ...



I can barely get my legs around him. It's not really an angle thing... my legs would have to be about a foot longer to make it happen. I actually usually roll towards the head first as it's easier to break grip that way. I rotate the other way if I then have to try to use my leg strength to break it... which is where I wind up at but even with the force of a leg press I'm not breaking his grip. I might have to try the keylock on him. Thanks.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Apr 30, 2015)

First off, be patient with yourself. A 120 pound weight difference is nothing to sneeze at, especially with someone who is at or near your same belt level. If you are controlling position enough to be attempting submissions rather than being crushed underneath the big guy, then you're already doing pretty well.

My standard advice for dealing with big guys:

Constantly work angles. Constantly work to break grips. Constantly work to control distance.

The moment you stop doing these things, a big guy can just grab you and put you where he wants you to be.

As far as finishing the armbar, you really shouldn't be trying to force the grip break with strength against strength, even if he wasn't bigger and stronger. Think of it more like untying a knot. It's hard to explain in print, but Firas Zahabi has some good examples here:


----------



## kuniggety (May 1, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> As far as finishing the armbar, you really shouldn't be trying to force the grip break with strength against strength, even if he wasn't bigger and stronger. Think of it more like untying a knot. It's hard to explain in print, but Firas Zahabi has some good examples here:



Thanks for the video! It's really good. I'll have to check out more of his.


----------



## AlphaBJJ (May 23, 2015)

Don't be afraid, from the bottom, move immediately to an open guard.  When you can't even lock guard, it's hard to be effective.  Get some grips, make some connection with the feet, and start to work.  As Tony says, making angles is going to be your friend.  An open guard really lends itself to this.  Those angles and the distance created by the open guard will take away his advantages.  

I agree with an earlier post as well, from top, consider cross side instead of full mount.  Full mount with the girth that comes with 100 pound plus difference is a killer.  

Lastly, focus on position.  Subs are a secondary concern when dealing with weight difference like this.  Everything will be easier if you can dominate position for as long as you need to.  Chances are, he will gas sooner rather than later and this will go to your favor in finishing.


----------



## Drose427 (May 23, 2015)

I was in a similar situation

And these guys covered the big things, you CANNOT let them get ahold of your hands. Like at all. Because their size make your legs very ineffective./

If you can angle yourself so you almost bisect them, you can throw a leg over the shoulder

_Maybe_ slip out. Ive never tried as Im a big omoplata/gogoplata guy so getting one leg over is usually good enough for to get some momentum going.

A good example in video form  of who to do it is this: 






Personally , Coming from a Wrestling background, if someones THAT much bigger than me Im gonna try to avoid going into guard for the reasons you mentiond unless I really need to. That said, if you dont have the wrestling experience to really "Fight from the outside or back" (i.e. duck under or Swing single makes it incredibly easier to take the back) so to speak this may not be an option for you.

But, the other guys here gave a lot of really good advice that applies to any style of submission grappling


----------



## drop bear (May 24, 2015)

By the way. In mount you are either really low at their hips or really high at their head. If you are over their tummy you are in the wrong place anyway.


----------



## drop bear (May 24, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> I was in a similar situation
> 
> And these guys covered the big things, you CANNOT let them get ahold of your hands. Like at all. Because their size make your legs very ineffective./
> 
> ...



Head snaps.


----------



## kuniggety (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for all of the tips. I've only rolled with him once again since posting this. I was pretty successful with using open guard. When he did come in my guard, I grabbed half guard, swept him, and went for the dominant position. Full mount sucks because of the girth mentioned and so moved high and transitioned to the s-mount (one of my favorites). He rolled away and I went for a few chokes but I really do have the damnedest time because the girth of his neck is so large. I should've attacked the shoulder but went for the arm bar. He locked on his hold and the buzzer went off before I could pick it apart. Boo.


----------



## AlphaBJJ (May 25, 2015)

Dude, that's excellent!  Don't stress the sub.  Look at what you did against a dude with that much weight on you.  Played an advanced guard, swept him, took dominate position, and held him there while you made him do nothing be defend a sub.  That's a great roll.  Nice work!


----------



## kuniggety (May 29, 2015)

Thanks. I've gotten crushed by him a few times because of the weight and it wasn't pleasant. For the most part, it's been about staying out of underneath and then I can dominate pretty easily as he can't kee up in speed, dexterity, or technique. My issue is that despite getting a dominate position, I can't seem to finish. Tournament point wise, I would still win but I'm thinking about more of a self- defense situation. I suppose in a street fight, after moving to s-mount, I can always hammer fist the guy in the face to break his great to take the arm bar.


----------



## crazydiamond (Jun 1, 2015)

Well its not fun from the other side as a big guy (and newbie) trying to learn the moves and your partners knees are dangling in the air while in mount


----------



## stonewall1350 (Jun 30, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> I have been doing BJJ for ~ 2 years now. I haven't been promoted to blue belt yet but I'm starting to hang with a lot of the blues belts and can, for the most part, wipe the mat with most of the other white belts. There is a new guy that is about 315 lbs. I am 195 lbs and as basically the only other "big guy" I've been rolling with him a few times. I am having trouble pulling off anything on him. I've taken his back and gone for RNCs and bow and arrow chokes with no avail because of no discernable neck as soon as he lowers his chin. I've gone for arm bars and because he is so big and strong, he can hold on enough to hold on with his other hand and I can't even break it by bracing with my inner arm around his leg and holding onto his belt for support and using my outer leg to push on his arm. I've tried to triangle him but I can't slide my foot up under my knee for a solid lock because he is too big. I actually got foot locked by him the other day because he trapped my foot between his legs and no matter what I did I couldn't get it back out and, after going for a transition, it put it into a worse position and he was just crushing my foot. I was wondering what peoples' go to moves were for folks when they're completely outclassed in size?



I am a big guy myself. About 260-270 depending on the week. And in 6'1. I use every last pound to my advantage when I take the top. When I lose it is because my opponent flows and moves quick. So I will pass that along to you: you are NOT going to win by pinning him down. He will use your weight against you (assuming he is smart).

KEEP MOVING. Gas him and YOU control the pace. And don't be afraid to go for leg locks. I assume he isn't flexible so use that. I'm trying to think about how I lose and that is usually how. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stonewall1350 (Jun 30, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> Thanks. I've gotten crushed by him a few times because of the weight and it wasn't pleasant. For the most part, it's been about staying out of underneath and then I can dominate pretty easily as he can't kee up in speed, dexterity, or technique. My issue is that despite getting a dominate position, I can't seem to finish. Tournament point wise, I would still win but I'm thinking about more of a self- defense situation. I suppose in a street fight, after moving to s-mount, I can always hammer fist the guy in the face to break his great to take the arm bar.



If you are doing this for self defense...you shouldn't be on the ground. Your goal should be to get up and stay up. And a guy that big? If you knock him down it is going to be VERY painful for him. 


Ps

Train your stand up sweeps and trips. They will be VERY effective.


----------

