# Is this a Bussey desrivative art?



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 3, 2006)

When I saw this while perusing self defense videos it sure looked
to me that this was a former Rober Bussey student.


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## Bujingodai (Dec 3, 2006)

It certainly looks like that influence, just add Roberts grizzly growls and it would be identical.
One dimensional but it looked effective.


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## terryl965 (Dec 3, 2006)

I believe so.


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## rexthunder (Dec 3, 2006)

I have 4 or 5 of Bussey's old panther videos and, I'm no expert, but this looks pretty similar.


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## Obliquity (Dec 3, 2006)

Having spent a brief amount of time in RBWI years ago, and still watching a few of his videos from time-to-time, that appears to be very much in the style of Mr. Bussey, including some of the idiosyncratic behaviors. In fact, some of it is exactly as I remember doing / seeing it.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 4, 2006)

Yes I thougtht it looked like Bussey's signature was written on it.  I did google it but only came up with the video and nothing else!


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## lalom (Dec 4, 2006)

Very Bussey-ish...    With the speed punching and everything!  Looks cool though.


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## donald (Dec 5, 2006)

First let me say that the defender moved rather well. Secondly, what happened to Mr.Bussey? Is he still involved in the martial arts? 

1stJohn1:9


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## Obliquity (Dec 5, 2006)

Word is that Mr. Bussey has recently moved to the Dallas area.  His web site is --> www.robertbussey.com.


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## mystic warrior (Dec 7, 2006)

Sorry to be off the topic some what. 
But isn't  Mr. Bussey stuff just bujinkan but alittle more in your face. I am sorry if I come of dumb. I am just trying to understand the bujinkan stuff.


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## Fallen Ninja (Dec 7, 2006)

Looks like Robert Bussey/Rick Tew stuff.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 7, 2006)

mystic warrior said:


> Sorry to be off the topic some what.
> But isn't Mr. Bussey stuff just bujinkan but alittle more in your face. I am sorry if I come of dumb. I am just trying to understand the bujinkan stuff.


 
With a mixture of Hapkido and some other things.  Plus while he was an early American Budo Taijutsu practitioner those day's were a little different in teaching methods than what was taught in Japan or what is taught around the world now.


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## Cruentus (Dec 7, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> With a mixture of Hapkido and some other things. Plus while he was an early American Budo Taijutsu practitioner those day's were a little different in teaching methods than what was taught in Japan or what is taught around the world now.


 
I'm not so sure about him (just haven't seen much of what he does) but his website is nice.

I remember that he was popular for Ninjutsu back in the day; how far along did he go with the Bujinkan? I'm just wondering whats in his actual resume'.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 7, 2006)

Tulisan said:


> I'm not so sure about him (just haven't seen much of what he does) but his website is nice.
> 
> I remember that he was popular for Ninjutsu back in the day; how far along did he go with the Bujinkan? I'm just wondering whats in his actual resume'.


 
Hey Paul,

He trained pretty early on in the Bujinkan and I believe achieved the rank of 2nd or 4th Dan. (I have heard both)  He had a Hapkido background before training in Budo Taijutsu.  Having said that his movement is very different than what is taught in Japan.

Hope that helps.


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## Obliquity (Dec 8, 2006)

mystic warrior said:


> Sorry to be off the topic some what.
> But isn't Mr. Bussey stuff just bujinkan but alittle more in your face. I am sorry if I come of dumb. I am just trying to understand the bujinkan stuff.


 
I was fortunate enough to have trained in Mr. Bussey's style for a short while, so I will try to interject what I think I know, but please understand that I am not claiming to speak for Mr. Bussey. Having met him on a few occassions, I know he is far more able to articulate his philosophy and practices than I, but, I will help as I can.

Like a lot of martial artists who adapted their learning for street fighting, Mr. Bussey's approach was adapted for personal defense in real-life situations as opposed to propogating "the art." This was part of the rub between he and the bujinkan. Mr. Bussey felt that some of what he would be expected to teach, were he to stay with tradition, was not applicable in situations he thought most likely. Sort-of like, "what can I teach students right now that will work if they are mugged in the parking lot leaving class tonight?" In a way, it was "in your face" because the idea was to save yourself right now, whether that meant being aggressive and violent or aggressively running away.

Another major issue was Mr. Bussey's spirituality. As a Christian, Mr. Bussey was not comfortable with, or outright opposed to, some of the teachings to which he had been exposed. Since I am new to learning about traditional Ninjutsu, I can't speak to what those teaching might be, but I know it was an issue with him, which he clearly states in some of his writings.

Regardless of where he stands in the minds of practitioners -- and I know he is disliked or outright rejected and discredited by some --he is a tremendously talented martial artist and a heck of a nice guy. Having attended a few seminars years ago, I can say that it was a treat to watch him move. Very fluid.

As an aside, I just read an article about him in American Karate Magazine dated May, 1987 where the author states, _"To attack Robert Bussey when he has a sword in his hand would be like throwing yourself into a Cuisinart -- you wouldn't stand a chance. There is something slightly frightening about being around a length of steel that is spinning and twirling too fast for your eye to even see! (Once, while viewing a videotape of Bussey's sword technique, it was necessary to put the player on slow motion to view the actual path pf the blade.)"_


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Dec 8, 2006)

Obliquity said:


> Another major issue was Mr. Bussey's spirituality. As a Christian, Mr. Bussey was not comfortable with, or outright opposed to, some of the teachings to which he had been exposed.


 
He clearly has no qualms about the usage of violence anyway... 



Obliquity said:


> Having attended a few seminars years ago, I can say that it was a treat to watch him move. Very fluid.


 
If you think was Bussey does is fluid, you seriously have no idea as to what the Bujinkan has to offer in that regard.


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## Obliquity (Dec 8, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> He clearly has no qualms about the usage of violence anyway...


 
Use of violence is a topic of discussion among some Christians. I don't believe that the use of violence in the context of protecting one's self or someone else's self was/is a problem for Mr. Bussey.

As for me, I believe that, with few exceptions, defense of self or others is a matter of good stewardship. Keeping the principles of stewardship in mind, I had no problem serving in the military for a time.



Nimravus said:


> If you think was Bussey does is fluid, you seriously have no idea as to what the Bujinkan has to offer in that regard.


 
You are quite right in that I have no idea what the Bujinkan has to offer -- in many regards. As stated in my post above, I am very new to Traditional Ninjutsu. I am hoping to get some first-hand exposure by visiting a dojo as soon as I am able.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Dec 8, 2006)

I guess people see what they want to see.


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## MJS (Dec 8, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Hey Paul,
> 
> He trained pretty early on in the Bujinkan and I believe achieved the rank of 2nd or 4th Dan. (I have heard both) He had a Hapkido background before training in Budo Taijutsu. Having said that his movement is very different than what is taught in Japan.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 
Brian,

Would you be so kind as to expand on what some of the major differences are?  While I have seen BBT clips and the clips on Roberts site, it may be easier to read what the differences are, rather than trying to pick them out of the clip.

Thanks

Mike


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 8, 2006)

MJS said:


> Brian,
> 
> Would you be so kind as to expand on what some of the major differences are? While I have seen BBT clips and the clips on Roberts site, it may be easier to read what the differences are, rather than trying to pick them out of the clip.
> 
> ...


 
Well there are alot of differances.  First off knowledge of the various ryu-ha is the biggest deal.  Proper kata's and henka off of them.  Bussey studied only for a short while before adding things that we not Bujinkan related.  Besides knowledge of the ryu and there kata's the other distinguishing features of Mr. Bussey's style is high kicks, acrobatic moves and flash.  Mind you many people in the Bujinkan are not Bussey fan's.  However he was around pretty early on and blended his hapkido training with Budo Taijutsu and then marketed it during the Ninja boom.  Personally if he inspired anyone to find legitimate training under Hatsumi then more power to him.


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## MJS (Dec 8, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well there are alot of differances. First off knowledge of the various ryu-ha is the biggest deal. Proper kata's and henka off of them. Bussey studied only for a short while before adding things that we not Bujinkan related. Besides knowledge of the ryu and there kata's the other distinguishing features of Mr. Bussey's style is high kicks, acrobatic moves and flash. Mind you many people in the Bujinkan are not Bussey fan's. However he was around pretty early on and blended his hapkido training with Budo Taijutsu and then marketed it during the Ninja boom. Personally if he inspired anyone to find legitimate training under Hatsumi then more power to him.


 
Thanks, this was helpful!:ultracool 

While I'm not sure the exact timeframe it takes to be remotely good at the things you mention, I'm sure its not going to happen in a short time.  I get the impression from reading Obliquitys' post, that Bussey didn't seem to think that what he was learning would not be effective ASAP.  Considering, as I said in the beginning, that many things could take years to perfect, would this be one reason he added/deleted things?  Is there anything "Bujinkan like" in anything that he is doing now?

Mike


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## Cryozombie (Dec 8, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> If you think was Bussey does is fluid, you seriously have no idea as to what the Bujinkan has to offer in that regard.



I think A lot of "Hard Style" artists (which is what I would consider him from most of what I have have seen from Bussey) consider "fluid" being able to transition from technique to technique in a... rapid, non-broken chain of moves... or a "rapid" motion that isnt so much about fluid movement how we think of it as it is about rapid transitions.


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## Don Roley (Dec 8, 2006)

Obliquity said:


> Like a lot of martial artists who adapted their learning for street fighting, Mr. Bussey's approach was adapted for personal defense in real-life situations as opposed to propogating "the art." This was part of the rub between he and the bujinkan.



No... The people in the Bujinkan that were around at that time seem to have a lot more trouble with him using the Bujinkan name while not really doing much that Hatsumi was showing. The flashy kicks and such are just part of that. The big complaint seems to be that he was quite willing to use the name ninjutsu to sell himself, but was not eager to learn or teach what actual ninjutsu was. That is a rather big charecter flaw in many people's opinion.



Obliquity said:


> Another major issue was Mr. Bussey's spirituality. As a Christian, Mr. Bussey was not comfortable with, or outright opposed to, some of the teachings to which he had been exposed.



To be more exact, this is _the excuse he gave._ Whether it is the truth or not is another matter. The way I heard the story, it looks like he fled Japan for reasons other than having trouble with the teachings. And there is nothing I can point to that would run counter to a Chritian studying this art. Thousands have and have not had a problem.




Obliquity said:


> As an aside, I just read an article about him in American Karate Magazine dated May, 1987 where the author states, _"To attack Robert Bussey when he has a sword in his hand would be like throwing yourself into a Cuisinart -- you wouldn't stand a chance. There is something slightly frightening about being around a length of steel that is spinning and twirling too fast for your eye to even see! (Once, while viewing a videotape of Bussey's sword technique, it was necessary to put the player on slow motion to view the actual path pf the blade.)"_



Never mistake flash for real skill. If you look at what Bussey does with a blade and compare it with the traditions in Japan you will see a lot less flash, but what they do has been tested in real combat while Bussey's show has not. The author of the article, like most, is probably like most folks that see stuff in movies and think it is real and have no experience with real swordsmanship.


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## Obliquity (Dec 8, 2006)

Nimravus said:


> I guess people see what they want to see.


 
Um . . . you do realize that I was agreeing with your statement that I "seriously have no idea as to what the Bujinkan has to offer in that regard."

I am not really sure what your follow-up post is about, but I am quite willing to learn more.


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## Obliquity (Dec 8, 2006)

Cryozombie said:


> I think A lot of "Hard Style" artists (which is what I would consider him from most of what I have have seen from Bussey) consider "fluid" being able to transition from technique to technique in a... rapid, non-broken chain of moves... or a "rapid" motion that isnt so much about fluid movement how we think of it as it is about rapid transitions.


 
I think this may be a very accurate characterization of my experience. I had never seen techniques chained together in a rapid sequence. Thanks!


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## Obliquity (Dec 8, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> No... The people in the Bujinkan that were around at that time seem to have a lot more trouble with him using the Bujinkan name while not really doing much that Hatsumi was showing. The flashy kicks and such are just part of that. The big complaint seems to be that he was quite willing to use the name ninjutsu to sell himself, but was not eager to learn or teach what actual ninjutsu was. That is a rather big charecter flaw in many people's opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Don, 

I have read several of your posts since joining MartialTalk and really appreciate your perspective on this. Seriously. I will take what you have written to heart and give it significant consideration.

I haven't read recently if you have decided where to settle when you return to the States, but am hoping that the Seattle area still has great appeal to you. I was hoping to visit the Seattle Bujinkan Tenchijin Dojo on a recent trip, but was not able to work it in. Perhaps if you are in the area again, I could make the trek from Wenatchee in order to meet and observe first-hand some of what you bring with you from the Bujinkan Honbu Dojo.

Keith


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