# Hidy Ochiai and Washin-ryu.



## arnisador

I read a flattering--fawning--interview with Hidy Ochiai. Did he create Washin-ryu or does it have a longer history in Japan? I know he claims that he came here to spread that traditional art but it often seems as though he is the only source of instruction in it. Is it practiced in Japan? Who is the grandmaster if not Mr. Ochiai?


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## arnisador

Does anyone know who will inherit this art?


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## arnisador

I'm gonna try one more time! Does anyone know anything about this art?


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## dubljay

Never heard of it before.... any of this help?


http://www.hidyochiai.org/
http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/halloffame/hidyochiai.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0809228939/002-2825979-0342412?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance


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## arnisador

Thanks, but I know most of what's there--it was popular in Upstate NY where I'm from. (The HQ is just down the road from where my wife grew up.) But I'm trying to separate out fact from fiction. The story just doesn't add up to me--but, I could be wrong.


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## dubljay

Sorry I can't help you.  Hopefully someone knows something about it.  Keep digging I'm sure you will find what you're looking for.


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## The Kai

Having "heard" this topic on other forums it would seem that the temple training stories are a little far fetched, and the katas are most likely Shotakan-esque


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## eyebeams

arnisador said:
			
		

> I read a flattering--fawning--interview with Hidy Ochiai. Did he create Washin-ryu or does it have a longer history in Japan? I know he claims that he came here to spread that traditional art but it often seems as though he is the only source of instruction in it. Is it practiced in Japan? Who is the grandmaster if not Mr. Ochiai?


 Where the hell would he get the kata? From what I've read they're all Shotokan variants. I suppose it's vaguely possible that some Zen monks took up karate for their health, but that would be an informal initiative, not "monk martial arts." Hell, my own Zen Teacher practices Tai Chi but that doesn't mean it suddenly becomes a "martial arts monastery" because he has a personal hobby.

 Anyway, he apparently teaches iai as well, according to Kim Taylor's mailing list.


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## arnisador

I knew he did a lot of demos with the katana, but didn't know that he taught iaido. I thought it was just for his demos.


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## tshadowchaser

Never really head him talk about where he got his training (he would often talk with my old instructor "back in the day"
I do know he was damn good and his forms where darn near perfect. 
But I don't think he ever gave much information on who taught him


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## arnisador

Oh yeah, I believe he's talented. I've seen him move. But...I question his backstory.


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## Kosokun

I've met Mr. Ochiai on many occasions and have competed with his son, Derek on the US Team.  Mr. Ochiai was one of the few (then WUKO) Referees in the USA Referee Corps.  From my experience, even if one makes up his karate frome whole cloth, in his garage- and I'm not saying he did-  becoming a WUKO or WKF Referee requires such knowledge and training, that would make one "legit" and worth studying with.  Also, I've known, made friends with, competed with and against so many of his current and former students, that I would say that any fears of walking into a McDojo should be dismissed out of hand.  His students, and that's truly the measure of a teacher, isn't it- were top flight.  They did extreemly well in kata, kumite, nationally and internationally.    Having said that, my recollections of Mr. Ochiai's students was that they  did shotokan kata and kihon in their kata performances, although Derek did a pretty good Seipai and Seienchin.  Mr. Ochiai was the consummate gentleman.  While I'm dubious of his published histories of his style, I wouldn't hesitate to send someone I cared about to train with Mr. Ochiai as he teaches the proper principles, from what I can see from observing and interacting with his students.    Rob


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## arnisador

This seems a balanced and reasonable view. My uncle studied his system and spoke well of it. I'm not near one of his schools any mor3e, but since it was fairly big in Upstate NY I've always known of it and been curious about it.


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## erm17

from page 80-The Original Martial Arts Encyclopedia-"While the founder of washin-ryu is unknown, Master So-An is its first known proponent; he reputedly studied under C.Y. Yen in 1569. Yen, a visiting Chinese merchant and martial artist, tought the washin-ryu monks many intricate forms, including those which employ washin-ryu's favorite weapon, the bo (staff). (Quoted from passage written by Hidy Ochiai)

erm17
brown-belt ni-kyu-washin-ryu- and research buff


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## Karatedrifter7

Karate Icon, Mike Stone at was all over the covers of 70's and 80's martial art mags is a Washin-ryu practioner.


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## Victor Smith

Back in the early  80's I used to attend Hidy Ochai's annual karate tournament in either Endicott or Johnson City NY. In turn his youth program, including his two young sons (Derek was the older) used to attend my NE Penna Youth tournament in Scranton.

Ochai Sensei was an outstanding competitor/demonstrator of his art. His performance reputation was international in standing. As an instructor he taught literally every class in his dojo, and his orgainzation growing from the tri-cities area was filled with many good people.

I have read that there is controversary about the historical proof of Washin Ryu. Perhaps I cannot offer anything on that. I only know he was a great instructor and really taught his students to be fair and honest as well as become strong performers.

The karate he demonstrated (including his gymnastics) was different from his students studies. Their art did much resemble Shotokan in the kata, the kata names and their performance. I only saw his own performance in the young Derek's studies back then. It may well be because to do what he did you have to start very young.

I was at one of his tournaments when his black belt students were allowed to compete in kobudo for the first time.

As I am wont to judge various instructors I've met and known, Ochiai Sensei must have been one of the best, not for the least of which are the values he taught his students and the honnor which I saw all of them demonstrate time and again.

I know of no more impressive way to be an instructor.

BTW I have no doubt his reputation would have allowed him to be in WUKO, and if his son was competing in that venue, the Shitekata from Shotokan, Goju, Wado and Shito Ryu would have been his study too.

Good memories. If anyone is in that area looking for instruction, they're worth the look.

As for the 'historica' truth, thats someone elses issue. I take the reality of good karate every time.


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## Lynne

Hidy Ochiai is only about 20 minutes from where I live.  I never did check out his studio though.  I believe he's published at least one book on his art.


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## Victor Smith

Lynne,

Actually he's published several I have copies of someplace. Just basic karate books though nothing special but well done for what they are. While its been decades since I've seen him I feel quite sure he still has a quality organization, I can't imagine it changing. If you do check it out, good hunting.


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## ichiookami

Washin-ryu, includes mind and spirit, besides the usual technique. Few schools do that anymore. I have yet to find others. Oh sure they claim traditional, but a little to lax to be teaching anyone how to hurt someone else. I think it makes you more well rounded, but maybe just the old guy talking. Most people don't talk or brag about themselves and are humble, but not egoless. We all are human after all.


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## twendkata71

I have met and been judged by Master Ochiai several times. We had him at one of our camps several years ago. I have seen him perform and he was breathtaking to watch. I would say that his style is an offshoot of Shotokan karate do. With other elements thrown in. With his experience in the WUKO and USAKF referee corps. that would also added to his style. Back in the 70's he was affiliated with Mr.Trias's USKA.  He at that time would have also had some association with Master Konishi(Ryobukai/Shindo Jenin ryu).  No matter where he recieved his initial training from he has developed into an excellent karate ka and sensei in his own right.


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## DerekMMA

My former Shotokan Karate Sensei trained under and received his Black Belt from Hidy Ochiai back in the 70s.  He spoke very highly of him which then sparked my interest to find out more about Ochiai.  My former Sensei told me about Ochiai's kata performances and demonstrations with the katana.  He even said he was incredible in kumite.  However, despite the incredible impression he gave me he did say that Ochiai had a huge ego.  And as everyone else is concerned about Ochiai's background, so am I.  

I have gone through many magazine articles featuring Ochiai and have looked through his books.  All I can really say is what everyone already knows, that his background might trace back to a random temple, yet he cannot give information on this temple.  The temple story definitely throws up a red flag.  Even many of the anecdotes he has provided sound fraudulent.  His background is most definitely questionable considering many Sensei's are very open about their backgrounds.  Why Ochiai cannot be open about his background certainly baffles me.


There seems to be a majority agreement that Ochiai is talented, but in my opinion his kata tournament wins aren't really that impressive.  There are many different tournaments/championchips with winners.  Furthermore, some of his self-defense techniques are just plain silly.  The multiple attacker techniques aren't really that practical.  

I myself have had the opportunity to have participated in a local Connecticut tournament a few years back with Washin-Ryu participants.  They were Black and Brown Belts, and I can say that I was not impressed.  In fact, my former Sensei even said that they were terrible and commented on how Ochiai's standards must have taken a dive.  If you are going to choose a Karate organization I would simply pick JKA, SKIF, SKA, or some other JKA-split organization.  I myself am a fan of JKA's organized methods of training and the instructors have proven themselves.  The history is also unquestionable.


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## Jason Striker II

Without attempting to sort out GM Ochiai's background, I can tell you from personally having seen the man's technique close-up, he's a tremendous Karateka!

For example, on the classical side, his Sanchin Kata and Iaido (sword-drawing art), were highly impressive. On the application side, I remember, I think this was in the 1980's,  a student of Ochiai  quit Washin Ryu and took up full contact kickboxing - then the guy came back and challenged Ochiai to a three round match! Ochia knocked the guy out with little trouble.

I've also seen Ochiai as a chief referee at big tourneys twice - very fair and competent.


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## Von

I can give some insight as I am a former student of washin-ryu for over 10 years, and have trained with Sensei Ochiai.

Hidy Ochiai, a native of Japan and a U.S. citizen, came to the United States in 1962 with the mission of teaching the martial arts. In 1966, after receiving his B.A. from Albright College, Master Ochiai moved to Binghamton, NY and established Washin-ryu (_wa_-harmony, _shin_-truth) Karate-do in the United States. Washin-ryu now includes 25 branch schools across the United States.
From 1967-1980, Master Ochiai established himself as one of the world&#8217;s premier martial artists. He was rated the number one kata (form) competitor by the PKA (Professional Karate Association), having won the United States Grand National Karate Championship for five consecutive years, an unduplicated record. He has been inducted twice to the Black Belt Magazine&#8217;s Hall of Fame in 1979 as &#8220;Instructor of the Year&#8221; and in 1980 as &#8220;Man of the Year.&#8221; In 2004, Hidy Ochiai was inducted to the Martial Arts History Museum&#8217;s Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. He received a record number of votes.
In 2001 Hidy Ochiai founded the Hidy Ochiai Foundation, which encompasses his philosophy and life-long teachings, the basis of which is expressed in the dynamic relationship between the mind and  the body. With training, the mind and the body become unified in such a way that the individual becomes the true master of the self. Dedicated to promoting the principles of non-violence, the Foundation especially focuses on helping children and young adults learn and practice a positive and peaceful way of life &#8211; based on respect, self-discipline, self-confidence and mental and physical health, so they become constructive citizens, living in harmony with others.
Hidy Ochiai is the author of five books, including two comprehensive texts on self-defense, _The Complete Book of Self-Defense_ and _Hidy Ochiai&#8217;s Self-Defense for Kids: A Guide for Parents and Teachers_. His book, _A Way to Victory: Miyamoto Musashi&#8217;s Book of Five Rings_ is an English translation and commentary of Musashi&#8217;s ancient text and represents a seven-year effort to render the wisdom and spirit of Musashi&#8217;s timeless teachings. First released in Japan,_A Way to Victory_ has been republished in the United States by the Overlook Press.
Additionally, he created two permanent college course offerings for the State University of New York. First, &#8220;Zen and the Martial Arts of Japan&#8221; in the Anthropology Department at Binghamton University and secondly, &#8220;Self-defense in the Martial Arts&#8221; for the School of Professional Studies at SUNY-Cortland. His accomplishments have been praised by the media nationally and internationally including _Black Belt Magazine_, and ABC&#8217;s Wide World of Sports, You Asked For It, and ESPN.
In 1994, Hidy Ochiai founded the non-profit organization called the Educational Karate Program (EKP), which was validated by the NYS Education Department as a program suitable for all public schools in New York State. EKP teaches students of all ages an attitude of anti-drugs and anti-violence. EKP is currently taught in several hundred schools by over 1400 certified teachers.
Hidy Ochiai&#8217;s humanitarian efforts have been recognized world wide. He has been named a Paul Harris Fellow by Rotary International, he is the recipient of Albright College&#8217;s 1999 &#8220;Distinguished Alumnus Award&#8221; and SERTOMA&#8217;s 2001 &#8220;Service to Mankind Award.&#8221; On November 1, 2002, the Japanese Government honored Master Hidy Ochiai as &#8220;an ambassador&#8221; of traditional Japanese culture and art. His Excellency, Ryozo Kato, the Ambassador of Japan, recognized Hidy Ochiai during the Embassy&#8217;s celebration of Japan&#8217;s Culture Day, which was held at the Ambassador&#8217;s residence in Washington, D.C. Master Ochiai was one of twelve traditional martial arts masters chosen by the Japanese government to receive this honor and recognition.
In the pursuit and expression of his art, Hidy Ochiai&#8217;s fundamental aim has been to help individuals walk the path of self-development with dignity.




​

That following snippet came from here http://www.hidyochiai.org/main/?page_id=5

About Washin-Ryu Karate Do.

Washin-ryu Karate-do is the modern martial art of empty hand. It can be defined as a system of self-defense that enables its students to develop their mental, physical, and spiritual potential to the fullest extent by providing physical techniques so that the student may become more aware of the self&#8217;s relationship to the universal principle that is expressed in nature. It should be further stated that true karate-do comprises different elements so that it can be many things to many people, such as a method of self- defense, a sport (as a hobby or competitive game), a physical fitness program, a physical art of self expression, and so on.Ideally, a karate student should try to achieve a balanced view of the art of karate so that it can help to mold the whole person&#8217;s character. Although it is the student&#8217;s prerogative to emphasize one particular aspect for his personal satisfaction and benefit. It has been said traditionally that there are three main groups of people who engage in the practice of martial arts in general. The first group consists of people who emphasize the spiritual side of the art more than anything else, constantly engaging in meditation but slightly neglecting actual physical training. The second type is the opposite: they believe in physical training and perfection of techniques to such an extent that they often forget that human beings are endowed with spiritual and mental qualities that often become major factor in determining the outcome of any serious physical encounter with an opponent. The third type of participant should be called &#8220;utilitarian&#8221; martial artists, because they believe that the most important thing in martial arts is to defeat the opponent(s) and that is all that counts.The philosophical aspects and the aesthetic elements of the art are not fully appreciated by this third type of people. Needless to say, these approaches are all acceptable in a sense, each demonstrating one aspect of karate-do. But it must be stated unequivocally that none of the above mentioned extreme practices are truly representative of karate-do in the fullest sense of the word. Karate-do, in its highest sense, is very similar to the meaning of Tao, which can be defined as the basis for all existence that flows naturally, existing in accordance with the laws of nature. Once understood in this light, the modern art of karate can be utilized effectively as a means for educating young people as well as a way of life for the more mature. It is important that we do not lose this perspective of karate-do, no matter what aspect of the art we may choose to emphasize in training, for it is the marrow of the art.

That snippet came from here: http://www.hidyochiai.org/main/?page_id=22

Sensei Ochiai does also teach Iai, as I have taken his seminars. His technique is out of this world.

If there is anything I can answer, please feel free to ask.


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## seasoned

Back in the late 60s and into the 70s he would come to Syracuse NY and we in turn would go down to Binghamton for tournaments. He had some big name people come to his tournaments, the likes of Joe Lewis, monster man eddy, Jeff Smith, Bill Wallace. Fun times.... He was and is a great Martial Artist.


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## Von

Yep he's held open tournaments at SUNY for countless years, and then Washin-Ryu only at headquarters in Vestal.


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## captbike

Lynne said:


> Hidy Ochiai is only about 20 minutes from where I live.  I never did check out his studio though.  I believe he's published at least one book on his art.


I trained in Hidy Ochiai's KARATE-DIAL from 1991A.D. to 1998 C.E and earned BLUE BELT/BLACKBELT under Sensei Ken Jones and Mistress Sharon in Wadhinryu-Shotokan and now,because of SELENA,I have my,own Dojang (Korean Kenpo) and ton of Championship=Grandmaster Hidehiko takes Shotokan to an improved LEVEL.


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