# Associations...



## kenpo3631 (Jul 19, 2002)

With all the abundant amount of Kenpo associations and organizations out there to choose from, if you had to choose one, which would it be and why?

How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???....:rofl: :asian:


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## brentb (Jul 19, 2002)

It would depend on where I was located, and who the instructor would be there. Whether you want to learn traditional American Kenpo as Parker laid it out, or if you wanted to join an organization that may be continuing to advance the art.

If I was on the US West coast, I'd like to learn LTKKA from Larry Tatum's school. Elsewhere, I might like to stick with an IKKA school that was teaching the traditional curriculum, or maybe go for one of the schools that are expanding on EPs techniques and making new ones, and working with "rythmic timings" I think they call it and new directions. I'd like to train with Huk Planas, and there are many others as well that would all be good.

I've seen the WKKA school here and would not train there because I thought it was a belt promotion factory more than anything, but that could be just that school, and not all in the WKKA.

to me it would depend more on the instruction, and instructors not so much the organization.

take care
Brent


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## AvPKenpo (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *With all the abundant amount of Kenpo associations and organizations out there to choose from, if you had to choose one, which would it be and why?
> 
> How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???....:rofl: :asian: *




You will have to clarify.  I believe there are two associations that use WKKA.  one is the World Kenpo Karate Association owned by Mr. Jim Mitchell.  And the other the World-wide Kenpo Karate Association not sure who owns that.  And if my memory serves me correctly Mr. Mitchell came out with his association a few years before the other came out.

Michael


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 19, 2002)

The WKKA Worldwide Kenpo Karate AssociationWKKA was formed in 1991 by Mr. Palanzo in Pikesville, MD. 

Do you have the link to Mr. Mitchells Group?:asian:


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## AvPKenpo (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *The WKKA Worldwide Kenpo Karate AssociationWKKA was formed in 1991 by Mr. Palanzo in Pikesville, MD.
> 
> Do you have the link to Mr. Mitchells Group?:asian: *



Sorry unfortunately Mr. Mitchell does not have a Web site at this time.  Other things have happened also, can't say on a public forum like this though.

Michael


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## tarabos (Jul 19, 2002)

i'm not affiliated with any of the organizations right now officially. i like to just go to camps and seminars that are nearby who have the masters of kenpo teaching at them. my instructor is affiliated with the wkka (joe palanzo's). admittedly, i'm not a big fan of the wkka, but you can't judge a school by its organization.


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *With all the abundant amount of Kenpo associations and organizations out there to choose from, if you had to choose one, which would it be and why?
> 
> How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???....:rofl: :asian: *



It's not about really about what the organization can do for you, but what you can contribute to your own expereince by joining that organization.

Life is a buffet... If you don't bring anything to the table, what the hell are ya gunna eat?

Hasta,
Billy Lear

P.S. I'm a member of the United Kenpo Systems association. :asian:


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## ikenpo (Jul 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> Life is a buffet... If you don't bring anything to the table, what the hell are ya gunna eat?
> ...



Billy,

I don't think a fork, spoon and appetite count...:rofl: 

jb

p.s. Notice I didn't put a knife in your hand....I at least know better than that...


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



I don't care about the silverware...

Come here and lemme show you how to hold a fork, while I dig your brains outta your skull with the spoon!!! **We'll call it Kenpo Hannibal style** :lol:


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## GouRonin (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???*



Now Sir. I am sure that there are some fine WKKA practitioners in the mix that will do very well on their own. To smear them with the same paintbrush I'm sure helps no one in the long run.

The truth it is depends on how much money you have.


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 22, 2002)

I just asked because I have seen someone go to 7th in as little as 14 yrs....

Money aye? That's it!...sad


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## Les (Jul 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> * Life is a buffet... If you don't bring anything to the table, what the hell are ya gunna eat? *



I like that one!

I'm going to try it on my 15 year old son.

It'll give him a break from;

"A person going nowhere usually gets there"

Which he says he is sick of hearing me say.

Les


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Les _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



That's kewel... Does your son train with you?


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## Les (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by WilliamTLear _
> 
> *
> 
> That's kewel... Does your son train with you? *



No, he doesn't.

He used to, but after I got divorced he didn't like sharing me with a bunch of other kids for even an hours class. He couldn't seperate the "dad" from the "instructor"

Also, he seemed to think because his dad was the instructor he should be the best student there, and felt he was letting me down when he wasn't.

Now he's older, and he's just too lazy to put in the effort, plus he doesn't like discipline.

Don't get me wrong though, he's a good kid, just lacking motivation in his life.

Les


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## GouRonin (Jul 23, 2002)

I can't wait till Billy gets his sheet together and starts the Pirate Kenpo ball rolling.


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## cdhall (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *With all the abundant amount of Kenpo associations and organizations out there to choose from, if you had to choose one, which would it be and why?
> 
> How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???....:rofl: :asian: *



I had to do this once and I chose the Instructor first and the Association second.

I admit that I knew I wanted to get the EPAK material but it also happened that I liked that instructor better.  I could be a 4th now had I gone with the non-EPAK instructor but I wanted the material and I took the instructor.  If he taught EPAK and not been in the IKKA... I don't know how that would have worked out.  It was not an option then.

I picked the guy that knew what I wanted to learn, who was good at it, and who I got along with.  Of the 2 guys I had narrowed it down to, I picked the one who I thought was better.  If he had not been the EPAK guy I would probably have decided that the EPAK stuff wasn't all that great and gone with the better guy.

Like I read somewhere once, "Most of us are at the mercy of the Karate Gods when we pick our first school."  We usually don't know enough in the beginning to pick the "best school" so much of where we end up is luck.  Not true for everyone, but true for most.

I think I may have gotten this from Mr. Hawkins off the Interview video I've mentioned elsewhere.  I hope this made sense.  I'm punchy.  It's late/early. 

:asian:


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## cdhall (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *How long does it take to 7th in the WKKA???....:rofl: :asian: *



Oh.  I think it takes longer to get to the Tootsie Roll Center of a Tootsie Pop than it does to make 7th in the WKKA.
:rofl: 
:asian:


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## WilliamTLear (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



*So How many lick does it take to make seventh in the WKKA? * :moon:


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## Michael Billings (Jul 23, 2002)

But I did go with my instructor.  I was fortunate to find a group of like-minded guys to train with. Bob Liles, Bryan Hawkings, Andre Sims, Tommy Burks, Howard Silva, etc.

My 2nd choice - that may be my 1st if I did not have so much instructor loyalty, would be Dennis Conatser's.  Not the biggest, or the fastest promoting probably, but quality counts.  

I also like Huk's teaching, and John Sepulveda to name a few others.
:asian: 
-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Kirk (Jul 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *But I did go with my instructor.  I was fortunate to find a group of like-minded guys to train with. Bob Liles, Bryan Hawkings, Andre Sims, Tommy Burks, Howard Silva, etc.
> 
> ...



Speaking of John Sepulveda, is it your school he's going to be
at next month?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

You won't make 4th or 2nd Black by learning a few measly techniques or being a nice guy - you'll have to study the Art and do it seriously.

:asian:


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## Seig (Jul 24, 2002)

in several threads that people refer to switching Assosciations.  I have done it, Mr C did it, why did you?  What was your experience with it?  Good or Bad?


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## Les (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *in several threads that people refer to switching Assosciations. What was your experience with it?  Good or Bad? *



I have only switched Associations once.

It was a very hard decision, which took me a couple of months to decide on.

In the end, I had to do what was best for my students, not what suited me, and so I switched.

The decision cost me the 20+ year friendship of my instructor, but that is my only regret.

Kenpo wise, my clubs are getting much more support, with regular visits from other instructors. My clubs are also growing steadily, due to the support I get.

Personally, I have gained a group of mentors who will willingly give their time to help me. 

All in all, the move was the best thing I could have done, and I have no regrets. 

Les


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _*
> in several threads that people refer to switching Assosciations.  Mr. C did it, why did you?  What was your experience with it?  Good or Bad?
> *



When the opportunity came for me to be able to study with Mr. Parker himself, I jumped at it.   I was able to increase my knowledge and at the same time develop a great friendship.  I was always loyal to the system and my instructor, yet at the same time never forgetting my roots and those that had helped me along the way.  

It was a great experience and a true opportunity.   Since I realize that, that is why I stay in and continue to teach and pass on to those who deserve it, the Art which I was given.
:asian:


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## tarabos (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




ouch...hahahaha....


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

Anyone have their enrollement hot line.........:rofl: 

:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Jul 24, 2002)

John Sepulveda will be at Austin Kenpo Karate, but I plan on being there with bells on, barring family emergency stuff.

Associations:  I have switched twice.  It was difficult both times.  The first was from the NCKKA, Chinese Kenpo, to the IKKA, when my instructor moved directly under Mr. Parker.  Completely different techniques mostly, but moreover, a different way of executing them.  I do not regret this, but it was hard letting go of some of the neat weapons work we did in the NCKKA that was just not part of the IKKA.  I was too busy learning the new to regret missing the old.

Years later I again changed Associations.  Following Mr. Parker's death and "THE FRAGMENTATION", as I like to call it, I waited and then joined the UKS.  I liked the people and they had all been training with Mr. Parker in the late 80's, which was important to me.  Now the associations are stronger, more defined, and have more stability.  It is about what they offer my students, as well as myself, in my own journey through Kenpo.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

:asian:


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

What does an association do that you can't do on your own. I am sure if you were to call anyone of those gentelmen and offer to pay for their airfare, hotel and food, that they would come out to see you on any given weekend they had free. Why not, they are making money.  

You can get all the training for you and your students want and get a private lesson to boot in most cases. Oh of course there are association specific camps and seminars that you could not attend, but how much do they cost? Most guys  cost about $500 or more to bring in. The upside to that is that they are YOUR the whole weekend. 

I think up side to joining an association is the ability to say " hey look who I belong to" and you get to use their logo. 

Personally I think that the reason people stayed with the IKKA was Mr. Parker. Just of of student loyalty and respect. YOu all say what happened when he died...need I say more.

That's just my two cents...:asian:


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## Les (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *What does an association do that you can't do on your own. I am sure if you were to call anyone of those gentelmen and offer to pay for their airfare, hotel and food, that they would come out to see you on any given weekend they had free. Why not, they are making money.  *



My clubs are the only ones in the United Kingdom that are with the association I belong to.

I get regular visits from an Instructor who comes from Utah.
I don't pay his air fare, accomodation, or food. (Although I do take him out for a meal when he is here)

Also, my own Instructor has several times in the past paid his own airfare to come to England to grade my students and teach seminars.

As to what I can't do that my association can, as an extremely low ranked instructor, I get support, instruction, help, advice and motivation.

Les


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

Les,

I didn't mean any disrespect by that post. I am just stating a fact.I don't know how it is in the UK but here in the US, you can call anyone of the seniors and if you are cordial and explain what you want, most are happy to comply.:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

For the most part that is correct.

:asian:


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## Les (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *Les,
> 
> I didn't mean any disrespect by that post. I am just stating a fact.I don't know how it is in the UK but here in the US, you can call anyone of the seniors and if you are cordial and explain what you want, most are happy to comply.:asian: *



No offence taken!

In the UK we tend to be a bit insular. I know that I'm lucky with the support I get from my association.

There are other people from other associations here in England that I can call on too.

I'm not a great fan of politics, I just want to train and learn.

Les


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

> I'm not a great fan of politics, I just want to train and learn.



As we say in the American Army....

HOOOOOOAHHHHH!!!!!!


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## Les (Jul 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by kenpo3631 _
> 
> *
> 
> As we say in the American Army....*



In the British Army, they just say "Where's the bar?"

Les


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 24, 2002)

We say that here too...LOL:rofl: :rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 24, 2002)

So that's where you been tonight........ ah ha!

:rofl:


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

Not quite. That's reserved for the weekends if that...


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 25, 2002)




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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

What's so funny....It's true!....lol:rofl:


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## Michael Billings (Jul 25, 2002)

Dennis, how large is your association now approximately?  Number of Schools / of Members?

From tiny acorns do mighty oaks grow!  How many states are you in, not just doing seminars, but actually affiliated with you?  Feel free to tell me that is none of my business - but it is nice to see someone I know branching out instead of consolodating.

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## kenpochip (Jul 25, 2002)

Does anyone have size estimates (regions, schools,  black belts, total students, etc ) on any of the various associations?

Chip


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## kenpo3631 (Jul 25, 2002)

Do tell...


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