# Knockout game



## shesulsa (Nov 22, 2013)

I've been seeing advice on morning shows on how to defend against such attacks. Most just make me facepalm.

What's your plan?


----------



## terryl965 (Nov 22, 2013)

Being aware of my surroundings at all times.


----------



## SENC-33 (Nov 22, 2013)

Self awareness should be prevelant in any persons self defense strategy first and foremost......


----------



## elder999 (Nov 22, 2013)

shesulsa said:


> I've been seeing advice on morning shows on how to defend against such attacks. Most just make me facepalm.
> 
> What's your plan?



Plan?

Stay big and scary looking until the day I die? :lfao:


----------



## J W (Nov 22, 2013)

Don't look like a target. In most of the clips I have seen of this "game", they run up behind someone and throw a wild punch. The target always looks oblivious to the fact that someone is running up behind them. I can only guess that these kids are choosing targets who don't look like they will see it coming, and who they can get away from easily after the attack. 

So yeah, be aware of your surroundings, and also_ look_ like you are aware of your surroundings. They hopefully won't be running up behind you if they think you will catch them in the act.


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 22, 2013)

Just sucks that its come to this you cant go into the city and take your kids to a ball game or your wife to a nice meal without fear of someone running up and trying to knock you out.


----------



## J W (Nov 22, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Just sucks that its come to this you cant go into the city and take your kids to a ball game or your wife to a nice meal without fear of someone running up and trying to knock you out.



Depends on the city I guess, but it's not like people are getting knocked out left and right. 

I've lived in downtown Philly for most of the past 12 years and have never been attacked (knock on wood!). But of course, you do have to be aware. It always bothers me a bit when I see people walking around staring at their phones (or otherwise pre-occupied), oblivious to the city around them.


----------



## seasoned (Nov 22, 2013)

elder999 said:


> Plan?
> 
> Stay big and scary looking until the day I die? :lfao:
> 
> ...


I beleve you, but, what is in your left hand.............??


----------



## blindsage (Nov 23, 2013)

Not worry about fear mongering, for the billionth time.


----------



## seasoned (Nov 23, 2013)

Advice and plans are always good, but it's the elderly I worry about most. Most of us here on MT train and are exposed to situational awareness. And, then there are the people that are just oblivious to things around them. My suggestion is to keep your eyes open for the innocent when you are out and about. Be prepared to intervene on their behalf by seeing situations from afar, like parking lots and the such.............


----------



## Big Don (Nov 23, 2013)

elder999 said:


> Plan?
> 
> Stay big and scary looking until the day I die? :lfao:


That wasn't my plan, but, I'm kinda forced to go with it...


----------



## Makalakumu (Nov 23, 2013)

Awareness.  Limit my trips to places where this occurs.  Try not to stop the shrug/flinch reaction in situations where this might occur.  Check out this video.






It seems as if some of the victims had some kind of warning, often in the form of someone running up.  Other times, it seems as if there wasn't much warning at all.  A shrug flinch could cause the blow to misland, preserving consciousness.  

I'm also going to share the **** out of these stories.

http://beforeitsnews.com/u-s-politi...0-year-old-woman-kills-two-teens-2454582.html

Don't care if it's not true.  These punks need to have a little respect for people and maybe the fear of someone packing heat will do it.  Never underestimate the effects of a propaganda war!


----------



## Carol (Nov 24, 2013)

Awareness and not going anyplace "unarmed".  Whatever I may be armed with may vary to accommodate local laws.


----------



## K-man (Nov 25, 2013)

Just thinking. A few years back in New York young guys were rushing at police and taking them down with a shoot. One of my friends was helping to teach LEOs defence against the shoot. Seems that this Knockout thing is the next craze.
:asian:


----------



## K-man (Nov 25, 2013)

Just received this in my email.

http://www.targetfocustraining.com/...e6650d5001877787030c335ecc026aeb3329193901d6d

:asian:


----------



## ballen0351 (Nov 25, 2013)

The thing that sucks now I just saw on news they are targeting kids and moms.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Nov 25, 2013)

"G",

As mentioned awareness is the first layer of self defense and this requires the person to have a healthy level of paranoia to scan and review the area constantly. If you watch a gaggle / flock of geese feeding on the ground there are watchers and guards These guards will eat while other watch, but they do not spend as much time eating as others. Sit and watch them for an hour or so. 

So if traveling in a group the watchers / guards need to be aware. If traveling alone you need to be a watcher or guard. 


Also being prepared. I mentioned this to a friend / student of mine who also teaches. When I leave the grocery store unless it is a small bag I can use as a flail I will take the cart with me. It is a shield to use to keep between people and myself. 
NOTE: Elder999's plan could be mine as I am uglier than him and slightly bigger I think. I have almost 30 years fo martial arts training and teaching and I have over 30 years of street altercation and mindset. I still use all the tools at my disposal to pay attention and to give me an advantage. 

While I could say I am big and large and could carry a firearm or a knife or other weapon to defend myself, with all my training and experience, and walk anywhere I want to go, I do not. I avoid bad parts of town. If I have to be there I give room and pay attention and watch. Eye contact. Acknowledgement that I know they are there and that I am not an easy target.


----------



## SENC-33 (Nov 25, 2013)

Rich Parsons said:


> "G",
> 
> As mentioned awareness is the first layer of self defense and this requires the person to have a healthy level of paranoia to scan and review the area constantly. If you watch a gaggle / flock of geese feeding on the ground there are watchers and guards These guards will eat while other watch, but they do not spend as much time eating as others. Sit and watch them for an hour or so.
> 
> ...



Good points. When I teach self defense seminars I really stress (especially to women) to let predators know you are aware by utilizing scanning techniques. I also advocate them carrying a visible key chain with a mace canister or to keep a hand in their pocket book if they have one that reaches low. Talking on a phone is the worst thing you can do unless you absolutely have to......

If you look like easy prey a predator will choose you first.


----------



## PhotonGuy (Dec 8, 2013)

shesulsa said:


> I've been seeing advice on morning shows on how to defend against such attacks. Most just make me facepalm.
> 
> What's your plan?



   Most of the posts on this website make me facepalm.

   But aside from that, perhaps the most effective defense against this is to carry a gun and use it, like that father of the 6 year old girl who shot the boy who tried knocking him out.

   Bernard Goetz had the right idea.


----------



## K-man (Dec 8, 2013)

PhotonGuy said:


> Bernard Goetz had the right idea.


What idea was that? Shooting the kids who asked him for money or selling weed to an undercover cop?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...goetz-arrested-peddling-pot-article-1.1504621


----------



## jks9199 (Dec 8, 2013)

PhotonGuy said:


> Most of the posts on this website make me facepalm.
> 
> But aside from that, perhaps the most effective defense against this is to carry a gun and use it, like that father of the 6 year old girl who shot the boy who tried knocking him out.
> 
> Bernard Goetz had the right idea.



And, if you don't know what you're doing -- you've got a damn good chance of finding yourself tried and likely convicted of manslaughter or worse.

I don't have the link to someone who said it better than I can handy, so this my own paraphrase & take on it.

I would say that the so-called knockout game is a form of Group Monkey Dance crossing with a Status Seeking Show.  It's an action by one individual within a group to cement or secure status but being urged by the group.  There is ALWAYS a group; otherwise it's outright ambush attack and they're going to knock your *** out and take whatever it is they're after.  Be aware of group dynamics around you.  If you see the signs of the group splitting out -- do something.  And don't be prey; be alert, paying attention to your surroundings.  That's stuff that's been harped on _ad nauseum_.  

Physical self defense really only comes into play after your hit.  In the case of the knockout game -- it's OVER with the hit, and the jerkwad (because I want it to pass the filter) is on the way back to his buddies.  You chase him and even simply grab him, and what have you done?  You've committed an assault yourself, because you just grabbed some guy who was no longer presenting a threat!  Shoot him?  What justifies lethal force against him at that moment?  I sure hope you've got a real good self defense attorney on speed dial, 'cause you're probably gonna need their help.

So... with that strong caveat... how do you respond if you missed the clues and get hit?  Rory Miller has some good counter ambush stuff in Facing Violence, and if you're lucky enough to get to work with him at one of his Ambushes & Thugs seminars.  Tony Blauer's SPEAR method works, too, for some folks.  Or lots of the other flinch response stuff...   The common pattern?  Use classical conditioning to build a response that lets you recover from the initial blitz "instinctively" until you can respond more rationally.

Actually... I just remembered where I saw it and who wrote it.  Don Roley's blog.



> A few things distresses me about the comments and such I  see on facebook, etc. Many martial artists seem to think that their  training will save them from this type of thing. Many gun enthusiasts  seem to drool over the idea of these animals trying the game on a person  carrying a concealed firearm. Well, none of that will save you from  being surprised and knocked out before you ever realize there was a  threat. Some self defense mavens have tossed the word "awareness"  around, but none really seem to detail the specific type of skills of  awareness needed in this case. I will try to do that here.
> 
> But before I do that, let me point out  to those that are looking for a fight or an excuse to shoot someone  over this- know the legal situation. In most places in the world, you  are allowed to use force ONLY when you are being attacked. In some  places, I know that you can get away with using force when facing an  attack but have not yet been attacked. It is a tricky call. If someone  leans in to you at a bar and says, "I am going to take this knife out of  my pocket and rip your throat out with it", in some places you would  get prosecuted for taking the initiative and hitting them before they  can pull it out. In others, if you could prove they threatened to kill  you like that you would be justified in what you did. It is not a matter  of just the law, but who is on the bench and in office.


----------



## Rumy73 (Dec 31, 2013)

PhotonGuy said:


> Most of the posts on this website make me facepalm.
> 
> But aside from that, perhaps the most effective defense against this is to carry a gun and use it, like that father of the 6 year old girl who shot the boy who tried knocking him out.
> 
> Bernard Goetz had the right idea.



Goetz also lost at least two civil lawsuits, and is destitute, because of his actions.


----------



## Rumy73 (Dec 31, 2013)

jks9199 said:


> And, if you don't know what you're doing -- you've got a damn good chance of finding yourself tried and likely convicted of manslaughter or worse.
> 
> I don't have the link to someone who said it better than I can handy, so this my own paraphrase & take on it.
> 
> ...



You are wrong. If you grab or strike a person who has hit you in the "knock out game", it is reasonable self defense. Now, if you it take it to an extreme, you better be prepared to explain why and be able to prove it.


----------



## Rumy73 (Dec 31, 2013)

Makalakumu said:


> Awareness.  Limit my trips to places where this occurs.  Try not to stop the shrug/flinch reaction in situations where this might occur.  Check out this video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I live in a major city, and similar things have happened. It is real. However, how is packing it going to change it? Most of these "knockouts" happen without warning. So they hit you, and you draw your piece and shoot? Good luck with that asinine solution. Talking about making something bad much worse.


----------



## jks9199 (Dec 31, 2013)

Rumy73 said:


> You are wrong. If you grab or strike a person who has hit you in the "knock out game", it is reasonable self defense. Now, if you it take it to an extreme, you better be prepared to explain why and be able to prove it.



Read carefully, please.  "You *chase him* and even simply grab him..."  Were you to grab or strike him when he hit you, yes, you'd have self defense as an argument.  It ceases to be self defense when you chase him down.  I don't really want to get into citizen's arrest, because the laws on that are VERY complex, and widely variant from state to state -- but you might have an argument for a citizen's arrest IN *SOME *STATES, and that does allow a limited use of force to enact the arrest.


----------



## credmc (Feb 9, 2014)

elder999 said:


> Plan?
> 
> Stay big and scary looking until the day I die? :lfao:
> 
> ...


----------

