# I can't touch my toes



## MuayThaiNoob

Tips?


----------



## Whitebelt

I'll assume your unflexible and not asking for tips on how to overcome your fear of feet.

My advice is to stretch every day. Theres no secret to it, just stretch.

Any time during the day when theres nothing to do and its not too dangerous do some leg raises (pretty much just swing your leg up in front of you as high as you can get it to go, repeatedly, being careful not to hurt yourself).






This video should get you the other stretches you need.


----------



## jkembry

Whitebelt said:


> I'll assume your unflexible and not asking for tips on how to overcome your fear of feet.
> 
> My advice is to stretch every day. Theres no secret to it, just stretch.
> 
> Any time during the day when theres nothing to do and its not too dangerous do some leg raises (pretty much just swing your leg up in front of you as high as you can get it to go, repeatedly, being careful not to hurt yourself).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This video should get you the other stretches you need.




Yup...that's pretty much it...but don't do what I did and try to stretch further than you should...your body will tell you.  It has taken me about 6 months to get back to where I started about a year ago because of not listening to the pain while strethcing and going further than I should.


----------



## bowser666

To get into more specifics you will need to stretch your back , hamstrings, calves etc....... One of the best is to just lock out legs , bend at waist and yes, try to touch your toes. It wont happen instantly,  and make sure to use constant pressure , do not bounce!!!!  You can also do the same stretch sitting down , but put your back up against a wall to help isolate the muscles you want to stretch and to preserve posture. Just do not forget stretching can take months if not years to reach your desired goal. It has taken me 4 months just to get my feet flat in doing a proper Downward Facing Dog , Yoga position. You will find the more you do it the more flexible you will become.


----------



## arnisador

Well...try it every day. Bounce a little and try to go a little further each time.


----------



## zDom

Er.. I would not recommend "bouncing" ...

Just keep reaching for them. 

Warm up first, reach for them, then when you think you are reaching as far as you can, breathe, RELAX... and reach further


----------



## Big Don

in the spirit of "If it looks stupid and it works, it isn't stupid"
Try this:
Lay flat on your back
Slide your butt up against the wall, your legs should be pointing straight up. 
Relax and let gravity spread your legs apart.
OK, I see this won't help you touch your toes, but, more flexible is more flexible...
Oh, and it looks REALLY stupid...


----------



## jkembry

Big Don said:


> in the spirit of "If it looks stupid and it works, it isn't stupid"
> Try this:
> Lay flat on your back
> Slide your butt up against the wall, your legs should be pointing straight up.
> Relax and let gravity spread your legs apart.
> OK, I see this won't help you touch your toes, but, more flexible is more flexible...
> Oh, and it looks REALLY stupid...




I do this as well.  Gravity is a wonderful tool.


----------



## Hawke

I also do this stretch as well.

Be careful not to let your knees roll out.

I would advise not doing this on cold muscles, so maybe a few jumping jacks to warm up the muscles.

Make sure you stretch after each workout.

As some has suggested in another post...take a yoga class.


----------



## Ninjamom

Try this website for lots of information about increasing your flexibility.

In general

1. Warm up first.  Do some light aerobics, a short jog, a run/walk, calisthenics, knee raises/marching, ANYTHING to elevate your internal core temp. about a half a degree.  You should break into a light sweat and have an elevated pulse rate and be breathing a little deeper than your 'at rest' rate.  This will prepare your muscles to be stretched (rather than ripped/torn) and will protect you from some injuries.

2. Get your joints moving next.  After your body is literally 'warmed up', rotate your joints in turn - wrists, elbows, shoulders, neck, waist, knees, ankles (I usually go 'top to bottom' in this order, just to make sure I don't forget anything).  The order doesn't really matter - just make sure you do some rotations of _everything_.)  This will stimulate your body's secretion of synovial fluid, a natural lubricant inside your joints that will act as a shock-absorber for other motions and further reduce your risk of injury.

3.  THEN do your main activity or stretch.  If you stretch _after _you are fully warmed up (instead of stretching as part of your 'warm-up'), you will make better gains in your flexibility.  In fact, after you complete your training or after your class ends is the best time to go back and do stretching as part of your 'cool-down'.  

4. The best stretches mirror your required motions. Just like for weight-lifting, the principles of Specificity and Compound Motions work for stretching, too.  If you practice the dead lift, you will gain strength and ability specific to this motion.  Your gains in strength and ability will be better than if you just used isolation exercises or static holds.  In the same way, try to use dynamic (moving) stretches and other stretching techniques that mirror the motions required for your art.  So, if you need to kick high for a side kick, practice controlled leg raises.  If you want to avoid certain traps/pins, stretch your arms/shoulders in directions needed to avoid this.  DO NOT think you must set an artificial goal of achieving a full side split in order to be 'flexible', since this motion is of no/little value in Muay Thai.  Here is a good, short article.

A WORD OF CAUTION:  'Dynamic' (moving) stretches are different than 'Ballistic' (bouncing) stretches.  Dynamic stretches use smooth, long motions.  Ballistic stretching uses the weight and momentum of a motion to force the strecth.  Ballistic stretches rip/tear the muscle tissue.  DO NOT BOUNCE!!!!

5. Hold Static Stretches for 15-20 seconds.  Many older martial artists practice stretching during a 'warm-up', hold a position while they count to 8, then wonder why they don't make any gains in flexibility.  In order to have a lasting change in the degree to which the muscle fibers will stretch, you really need to hold each static stretch at least 15 (prefer 20) seconds.  Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

6. Strengthen while stretching.  You will increase in flexibility faster if you work to strengthen the muscles you want to stretch.  So, if you need more flexibility in your legs, exercise those muscles while you are working to stretch them.

7. Read.  There is a wealth of info on the web about the latest research and newer techniques, like propioceptive neuromuscular facilitation, or PNF (which may or may not help you, but sure is a heck of a lot of fun to say around the gym).  See what you can google when you look for ways to increase your flexibility.

Good luck!


----------



## Touch Of Death

MuayThaiNoob said:


> Tips?


I wouldn't wrry to much about it, but just don't contort your back to do so... thats cheating.
sean


----------



## JustAVisitor

Stretch on a regular basis. And be patient. You should notice improvements after about 2 months if you stretch 3 times per week.


----------



## Kacey

Stretch _after_ you work out - this will have more impact on your flexibility than stretching before (which is intended to prevent injury - not improve flexibility).  When your muscles are warm (or hot) and tired, they will stretch more easily - and it will help prevent you from being sore the next day as well.


----------



## 7starmarc

My most most important tip is to not worry about it that much. As you practice and work your school's program, your stretch should improve.

Careful attention to stretching techinque, etc. will help, but your intstructor should be able to provide that direction. Hopefully, this would be in person and demonstrated so that you can fully understand what you're doing in a given stretch.

Also, keep in mind that there is nothing particularly magical about touching your toes. Obviously, we all work on our stretch (some more than others), but we're also all a bit different anatomically. For some, reaching their toes is very easy, their joints, etc just work that way. Sometimes this translates into higher, faster kicks, other times it doesn't.

Also, remember not to overstretch. That can set you back more than it might help.


----------



## Em MacIntosh

I just thought I'd menion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piriformis_syndrome
I've been stretching for over eleven years and still can't touch my toes (both at the same time with knees locked).  During ground stretching I have to push the ground behind me to stay upright and I can only attempt to touch my toes as long as my abs can hold me at greater than 90 degrees (better than sit-ups!).  I asked a doctor about the pervasive lack of hamstring flexibility and he said keep stretching, some people are unable to develop full flexibilty but they can still become more limber.  What I get when I try to touch both toes at the same time (knees locked and together) I get a 'cold' pain behind my knees when my wrists reach past my knees.  One at a time with my feet shoulder width apart I can almost cuck my head to me knee and wrap both elbows behind one knee.  I've found the best way is partner stretching: put your knee up on someone's shoulder with your back against the wall, have them stand up slowly and tap your leg or his shoulder when you've reached what you consider to be the safe point, then for two 5 second increments, push down hard on their shoulder, then relax, after two, do one for ten seconds, shaking it out as you bring it down from their shoulder, repeat with both legs, turn sideways for 'side-kicks' and 3/4 turn for back kicks (opposite shoulder against the wall instead of your back).  Never ever ever ever bounce.  I assert this.  I've lost interet in schools who encourage bouncing the limbs while stretching them.  Bad micro-tears, not good ones.  Bouncing is how you injure a muscle, ligament or connective tissue and it makes it easier to suffer a 'macro-tear' (scream and fall holding your leg) when doing dynamic movements.  It's important to shake it out after the stretch too.


----------



## hogstooth

MuayThaiNoob said:


> Tips?


 
When I started my dad would make me sit with my back straight and my legs together outstretched in front of me. He would stand behind me and apply pressure with his knees in a forward/downward direction which would push me toward my toes. If it was too much I would let him know and he would relax a little. After a couple of minutes he would apply a little more pressure. The trick is to relax and breath. If you are tense because of the pulling in your tendons and muscles then you can cause damage and even tears if you push your self to far. 
If you don't have someone that you can stretch with then I suggest an alternative method. Get a piece of rope about 5' long. Sit with your back against the wall and your legs straight out in front of you. allow yourself to relax and start to bend forward at the waist. When you feel the pull, stop and relax. With the rope extended out from one hand around the feet and back to the other hand, start to pull yourself forward. Remember you must stay relaxed. Once you get to a point that you can feel the pull stay there for a few minutes and just breath. When that becomes comfortable take up another inch on the rope. Do these twice a day and you will see progress. The older you are the longer this takes. So don't get discouraged.


----------



## shihansmurf

Why do you want to touch your toes?

Is this a grooming issue? Need a good clipping?

There for a bit, after my knee surgery and subsequent rehab I gained weight. I was concerned with seeing my toes.

Honestly, the ability to touch one's toes as a measure of flexibility, as it pertains to martial arts, is vastly overrated. 

Can you kick to the mid-section with good power and speed with a roundhouse kick? If you are starting out then this a good initial training goal.

If you have been at it a bit then the question becomes, "Can you kick to the head with good speed and power with a roundhouse kick?". If so then you are right on track.

As others have suggested, stretch daily and especially do so after working out. Other than that continue to train your kick height.  If you really want to touch your toes do what I do...

Sit cross-legged.



Mark


----------



## zDom

shihansmurf said:


> Honestly, the ability to touch one's toes as a measure of flexibility, as it pertains to martial arts, is vastly overrated.



I disagree. I think it is UNDER-rated.

Flexibility, besides being one of five components of physical fitness, reduces the chances of injury.


----------



## zDom

hogstooth said:


> When I started my dad would make me sit with my back straight and my legs together outstretched in front of me. He would stand behind me and apply pressure with his knees in a forward/downward direction which would push me toward my toes. If it was too much I would let him know and he would relax a little. After a couple of minutes he would apply a little more pressure. The trick is to relax and breath. If you are tense because of the pulling in your tendons and muscles then you can cause damage and even tears if you push your self to far.
> If you don't have someone that you can stretch with then I suggest an alternative method. Get a piece of rope about 5' long. Sit with your back against the wall and your legs straight out in front of you. allow yourself to relax and start to bend forward at the waist. When you feel the pull, stop and relax. With the rope extended out from one hand around the feet and back to the other hand, start to pull yourself forward. Remember you must stay relaxed. Once you get to a point that you can feel the pull stay there for a few minutes and just breath. When that becomes comfortable take up another inch on the rope. Do these twice a day and you will see progress. The older you are the longer this takes. So don't get discouraged.



Yep, relax and breathe  Great advice!


----------



## Touch Of Death

zDom said:


> I disagree. I think it is UNDER-rated.
> 
> Flexibility, besides being one of five components of physical fitness, reduces the chances of injury.


 Its also nice to be able to swing your leg around some guy's head that is going for the arm bar.
Sean


----------



## Tez3

Big Don said:


> in the spirit of "If it looks stupid and it works, it isn't stupid"
> Try this:
> Lay flat on your back
> Slide your butt up against the wall, your legs should be pointing straight up.
> Relax and let gravity spread your legs apart.
> OK, I see this won't help you touch your toes, but, more flexible is more flexible...
> Oh, and it looks REALLY stupid...


 
My fist karate instructor taught us this one! You can add ankle weights as you progress, I find it an easy way to stretch rather than sat on your bum legs apart - not being able to get them as far apart as the others which makes you FEEL stupid lol!


----------



## shihansmurf

zDom said:


> I disagree. I think it is UNDER-rated.
> 
> Flexibility, besides being one of five components of physical fitness, reduces the chances of injury.



I don't think I can agree more with you on the issue of flexibility being important to a martial artist, however, to use the touching your toes as the testing criteria bears no practical application to a fighter.Its a stunt that demonstrates a person's flexibility, nothing more. By itself it is limited.

If we use the ability to kick effectively, at various targets, with power and accuracy as the rubric then we will get more effective feedback on the status of our progression than if we focus on touching our toes.  I can barely do so but I can deliver knockout power with my kicks at head level, would you consider that to be an effective degree of flexibility? On a similar note, I don't think I could break a stack of three bricks with a punch, but I have knocked out several opponents during my boxing days. Am I a hard puncher, or do I lack power because I don't practice tamishiwara?

Touching one's toes is a good indicator of flexibility, but I don't feel it should be elevated to the position of importance that it holds to a lot of folks.When we focus on the ability to perform stunts with our skills and attributes instead of solid applications as our measure we run the risk of loosing sight of the purpose of training. We miss the forest for the trees, so to speak.

Just my view
Mark

P.S. I hope that the above didn't come off as argumentative, I fired off the original post off the top of my head and was partly in humor. The topic got me thinking about all those little milestones we use as goals along the journey and how we have this unfortunate tendency to fixate on them.I wonder how much we loose by doing so. What are you thoughts?


----------



## Tez3

Not being able to touch your toes could be a problem depending on how far you can actually reach down? If you can only reach as far as the top of your thighs you are very stiff! Reaching down and not quite touching your toes is just annoying!


----------



## kwaichang

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Even when I played LaCross for years, I could never touch my toes and yet I lived and thrived.:ultracool 

Just remember, very few, if any, self-defense situations call for you to touch your toes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...i'm presuming my toes are still there.....


----------



## zDom

shihansmurf said:


> ... What are you thoughts?



Well I agree that touching your toes is not the end-all and be-all of flexibility. And, as you've pointed out, many people are able to kick head high without being able to touch their toes.

And kicking head high IS (much!) more important than touching toes.

Being as flexible as possible is a GOOD thing, however &#8212; there are no drawbacks to flexibility that I know of; it's nice to be considerably more flexible than you need to be. And I think that having specific goals, specific benchmarks, for flexibility IS important.

The "sit and reach" test is a standard indicator of hamstring (and to some extent, lower back) flexibility.

For someone who is a good foot away from being able to touch their toes, touching their toes is nice goal. For someone who CAN touch their toes, they shouldn't be satisfied: they should work on laying their chest down on their legs.

Another useful benchmark for flexibility is, in Chinese splits, being able to touch your head to the floor. And, if you can do this, push it further by trying to lay your entire torso down against the floor.

I think milestones are important because they give us objective goals. The problem is that sometimes people mistake milestones for finishing lines! (for example, black belt rank!)


----------



## kwaichang

A word of advice:  Bruce Lee said you never kick above the waist; of course he DID but was speaking about most students.

This is valuable especially as we get older and less flexible.  You can effectively stop, hurt, maim, an attacker with a myriad of kicks at waist or below level.


----------



## Touch Of Death

kwaichang said:


> A word of advice: Bruce Lee said you never kick above the waist; of course he DID but was speaking about most students.
> 
> This is valuable especially as we get older and less flexible. You can effectively stop, hurt, maim, an attacker with a myriad of kicks at waist or below level.


Obviously a flashy movie script calls for flashy kicks. I think he spoke for *everyone* when faced with actual combat. Why place yourself at risk?
Sean


----------



## JadeDragon3

I can't touch your toes either.


----------



## bowser666

Note :  If any forum viewers are in prison , DO NOT ATTEMPT the toe touch stretch until you out from behind bars      sry peeps i couldn't resist.


----------



## shihansmurf

zDom said:


> Another useful benchmark for flexibility is, in Chinese splits, being able to touch your head to the floor. And, if you can do this, push it further by trying to lay your entire torso down against the floor.



Is this done starting form the side split and then lowering one's self to a seated position with the legs spread?If not, do you start from a seated position and splay the legs and then perform the touching the ground with your head part. I'm looking for a new stretch(or milestone,as it were) and this sound like it would be a god stretch to add to my routine, especially if it would keep pressure off my knees.



> I think milestones are important because they give us objective goals. The problem is that sometimes people mistake milestones for finishing lines! (for example, black belt rank!)



Amen, and well said!

Mark


----------



## 7starmarc

bowser666 said:


> Note : If any forum viewers are in prison , DO NOT ATTEMPT the toe touch stretch until you out from behind bars  sry peeps i couldn't resist.


 
More seriously, you should actually do your toe-touching on the floor, in a long sitting position, instead of while standing. Bending over from standing to touch your toes can put undue pressure on the discs, muscles, and connective tissues of your lower back. Not everyone will suffer from this, but many can injure themselves by the forces exerted across the back during a standing toe touch.


----------



## qwksilver61

My two cents...don't ever bounce..to stretch..and when you feel pain stop..easy does it...you will get there,believe me,just be patient.


----------



## zDom

7starmarc said:


> More seriously, you should actually do your toe-touching on the floor, in a long sitting position, instead of while standing. Bending over from standing to touch your toes can put undue pressure on the discs, muscles, and connective tissues of your lower back. Not everyone will suffer from this, but many can injure themselves by the forces exerted across the back during a standing toe touch.



I agree. Sit and reach is much better than bending over trying to reach toes.


----------



## Kwanjang

qwksilver61 said:


> My two cents...don't ever bounce..to stretch..and when you feel pain stop..easy does it...you will get there,believe me,just be patient.


 
GREAT advice!


----------



## aqaz69

Just make sure your knees are slightly bent and yes..don't bounce (bad for muscle tissue!). Look into mma workout routines to get in the best physical shape.


----------



## zDom

aqaz69 said:


> Just make sure your knees are slightly bent



Why? I've never heard this for stretching hamstrings (except to shift the stretch to other parts).

Explain.

In my experience, keeping knees bent leave the person stretching with a tight area making them vulnerable to injuries.


----------



## wrc619

In the Navy, we have to touch our toes seated as part of our physical readiness test.  The method i use, which also goes well to my MA flexibility, is a dynamic warm up followed by a static stretch.  Standing or walking, bring your heel to your buttocks alternating.  Next, in the same manner, bring your knees up to about 90 degrees.  The reps are up to your best judgement.  I go by 10.  After that, sit on the ground.  Put one leg straight, and bring the sole of your other foot to your inner thigh.  Lean forward over your bent foot for 10 seconds, relax, and then lean over your straight leg, and try to touch your toes.  Finally, bring your left hand over your head as far as you can.  Repeat the above often if it works.


----------



## kaizasosei

with a straight back and pulled in shoulders.


----------

