# Cardio or Muscle Training ?



## WillSandler66 (Jun 8, 2018)

Should cardio or muscle be my top priority? Mix of both? I want to reduce pain, have higher stamina while keeping power. I am new to this so any help is appreciated.


----------



## oldwarrior (Jun 8, 2018)

Hi 

What art are you studying might give folks a better idea for advice


----------



## WillSandler66 (Jun 8, 2018)

oldwarrior said:


> Hi
> 
> What art are you studying might give folks a better idea for advice


Thanks, MMA focused more on hand to hand boxing technique.


----------



## Headhunter (Jun 8, 2018)

Both


----------



## WaterGal (Jun 8, 2018)

What's causing you pain?  Neither cardio nor strength training will make it hurt less to get punched in the face, but if you're having, for example, lower back pain then focusing on strengthening your core would probably help you a lot, while if you're getting a "stitch" in your side when training then you might want to focus more on cardio. 

Personally, I think both are important. If you want to increase your sparring stamina, I'd recommend including not just distance cardio (running, biking, etc), but also some HIIT activities. Tabatas and things like that. When you're running, you get into a groove and do the same thing at a pace you can manage for a long time. But sparring isn't like that, it's always changing and you need to generate bursts of speed.


----------



## Danny T (Jun 8, 2018)

WillSandler66 said:


> Should cardio or muscle be my top priority? Mix of both? I want to reduce pain, have higher stamina while keeping power. I am new to this so any help is appreciated.


Ok I see you train MMA.
What is the purpose for training?
To be in overall good physical shape, to fight a few times or to become a high level amateur or even a high level pro, self defense, or something else?
Decent cardio and overall strength is good for most all people but if you are seeking high level competition then overall strength and a high level of fight cardio is very important. If seeking self defense then average strength and cardio can get you by with good skills until the confrontation goes beyond 30 seconds then you are going to wish you had better cardio real quick.
As to working cardio there is aerobic and anaerobic; both are important in the fight game. Aerobic will give you longevity and help in recovery your breath. Anaerobic is short high intensity burst lasting 10 - 30 seconds. Fighting and be both.


----------



## Buka (Jun 8, 2018)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Will.


----------



## Midnight-shadow (Jun 8, 2018)

Cardio is very important for fighting, especially if you are in a format with lots of rounds in it. Fighters who neglect their cardio in training are often defeated if they can't end the fight quickly. It's partly why Mcgregor lost his fight to Mayweather because he simply run out of steam halfway through the match.


----------



## CrazedChris (Jun 8, 2018)

I am still fairly new to the whole MMA thing, but I would say both are important.  And welcome to MartialTalk.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 8, 2018)

How good is your cardio, and how strong are you? What weight class are you in, and do you plan on competing? How do you generally fight?

Overall the answer is a mix, but if you are planning to compete, then it may help to fine tune what you need to do. We can give general advice based on your answers, but it should be your trainer/coach who helps you with that the most.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 8, 2018)

If you can add "belt cracking" into your daily MA drills, it can enhance both of your cardio and strength.

I have compared both the

1. solo drills training, and
2. solo drills training + belt cracking.

IMO, 2 > 1.


----------



## Rice Nachos (Jun 8, 2018)

Ask your instructor.


----------



## drop bear (Jun 8, 2018)

As a super vague sort of question. Which is cool. I would suggest high intensity load bearing would be a reasonable start.

5 Fun HIIT Workouts to Get You Through the Week


----------



## Headhunter (Jun 9, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Ok I see you train MMA.
> What is the purpose for training?
> To be in overall good physical shape, to fight a few times or to become a high level amateur or even a high level pro, self defense, or something else?
> Decent cardio and overall strength is good for most all people but if you are seeking high level competition then overall strength and a high level of fight cardio is very important. If seeking self defense then average strength and cardio can get you by with good skills until the confrontation goes beyond 30 seconds then you are going to wish you had better cardio real quick.
> As to working cardio there is aerobic and anaerobic; both are important in the fight game. Aerobic will give you longevity and help in recovery your breath. Anaerobic is short high intensity burst lasting 10 - 30 seconds. Fighting and be both.


Yeah you'd hope self defence situations don't last more than 30 seconds but you should always train for the theory that they could be longer. Plan for the worst hope for the best


----------



## Midnight-shadow (Jun 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yeah you'd hope self defence situations don't last more than 30 seconds but you should always train for the theory that they could be longer. Plan for the worst hope for the best



The thing about self-defence situations is that you may need to run a lot more than in a fighting competition. The last thing you want is to be running away from a group of thugs and run out of steam after 50 meters.


----------



## jobo (Jun 9, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Ok I see you train MMA.
> What is the purpose for training?
> To be in overall good physical shape, to fight a few times or to become a high level amateur or even a high level pro, self defense, or something else?
> Decent cardio and overall strength is good for most all people but if you are seeking high level competition then overall strength and a high level of fight cardio is very important. If seeking self defense then average strength and cardio can get you by with good skills until the confrontation goes beyond 30 seconds then you are going to wish you had better cardio real quick.
> As to working cardio there is aerobic and anaerobic; both are important in the fight game. Aerobic will give you longevity and help in recovery your breath. Anaerobic is short high intensity burst lasting 10 - 30 seconds. Fighting and be both.


That's Not wrong just not actually acurate, it is wrong to split anaerobic aerobic as definitively as that, they are part of the same energy production system,And they over lap some what.
 you don't need you aerobic capacity till you have exhausted your an Anaerobiic capacity,you can train your anaerobic capacity to last faR longer than 30 seconds, ideally 5 mins of good anaerobic capacity would deal with most self defence situations, before you get a seriously high heart rate and start needing Serious amounts of oxygen


----------



## jobo (Jun 9, 2018)

WillSandler66 said:


> Should cardio or muscle be my top priority? Mix of both? I want to reduce pain, have higher stamina while keeping power. I am new to this so any help is appreciated.


To answer your question there not really exclusive, or you can do both at once, by cadio, most people mean running or perhaps bike riding, runIng longish distances is only good for learning to run longish distances.

Get a kettle bell and swing it about for 10 Mins rs and you are developing both muscle and cardio, do hill spRints and you are developing both muscle and cardio, etc


----------



## Deafdude#5 (Jun 10, 2018)

Definitely cardio. You need your stamina to be able to breathe and fight.

Muscle training can be done along with cardio. You just need to think it through and apply a consistent regimen.


----------



## Headhunter (Jun 10, 2018)

Cardio is more Important than strength though. I mean look at any fight event the ones who get the most tired will lose because their technique will suffer their defence will suffer and they won't be able to use all those muscles


----------



## jobo (Jun 10, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Cardio is more Important than strength though. I mean look at any fight event the ones who get the most tired will lose because their technique will suffer their defence will suffer and they won't be able to use all those muscles


As above, that's a miss understanding, that start blowing, when their anaerobic capacity has gone and their aerobic capacity can't keep up, you will never get you aerobic capacity to work muscles hard, never, what you need to do is increase the an Anaerobic capacity, so your muscles last longer and recover quicker,

Or to put it another way, running will do nothing to help you Punch harder for longer, Arm strengthen ing excersises dothat


----------



## dvcochran (Jun 10, 2018)

WillSandler66 said:


> Should cardio or muscle be my top priority? Mix of both? I want to reduce pain, have higher stamina while keeping power. I am new to this so any help is appreciated.



For most people, it is quicker to see noticeable gains with cardio training. I don't get the myth that there is no muscle training in cardio, it just isn't true. If, for example, you want bigger biceps then yes, strength training is what you are looking for. I feel the biggest pain reducer with regular exercise of any kind is stretching. Also cardio is quicker to burn fat and calories so if weight is an issue that is a big plus. 
Welcome to the Forum.


----------



## jobo (Jun 10, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> For most people, it is quicker to see noticeable gains with cardio training. I don't get the myth that there is no muscle training in cardio, it just isn't true. If, for example, you want bigger biceps then yes, strength training is what you are looking for. I feel the biggest pain reducer with regular exercise of any kind is stretching. Also cardio is quicker to burn fat and calories so if weight is an issue that is a big plus.
> Welcome to the Forum.


Cardio isn't quicker to burn fat than weight training, you can see noticeable gains in strength training from day 2,


----------



## Danny T (Jun 10, 2018)

jobo said:


> Cardio isn't quicker to burn fat than weight training, you can see noticeable gains in strength training from day 2,


Have to agree with this.
While a weight-training workout doesn't typically burn as many calories as a cardio workout weight training is more effective than cardio at building muscle, muscle burns more calories at rest so building muscle is the key to increasing your resting metabolism. Plus muscle strengthening training with weights burns even more calories during the muscle recovery and repair periods for hours and as much as 2 days after a weight training session. So in terms of overall calories burned from any single training session weight training to the next weight training will burn more thereby depleting more fat from the body in the same amount of training time.


----------



## jobo (Jun 11, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Have to agree with this.
> While a weight-training workout doesn't typically burn as many calories as a cardio workout weight training is more effective than cardio at building muscle, muscle burns more calories at rest so building muscle is the key to increasing your resting metabolism. Plus muscle strengthening training with weights burns even more calories during the muscle recovery and repair periods for hours and as much as 2 days after a weight training session. So in terms of overall calories burned from any single training session weight training to the next weight training will burn more thereby depleting more fat from the body in the same amount of training time.


Agree with every thing you've said, but I'm not convinced that CRd burns more calories in the short term either

Is using muscles that burns calleries, so Say an hour of jogging Will use use a few muscles lightly and burn, 300 calories, an hour of lifting heavy weights about will  use a lot of muscles heavily and burn as least twice that,

Work done equals Calories burnt, do more work burn more calories


----------



## jobo (Jun 11, 2018)

Malos1979 said:


> I'm not very experienced with weight training but does it have to do with the afterburn from weight training? Something cardio doesn't have? What makes it more efficient?
> 
> Not sure if this is the right method but I do a full body workout (lower and upper body) 3 times a week (weight training), after every session I do 10-15 minutes HIIT.
> 
> I combine this with intermittent fasting.


Yes that as well, it's hard to make direct comparisons as there isn't a standard cardio or weight work out. but growing muscle it's self has a high calorie demand, on top of what your burn in the work out and just having big muscles means you burn more calories whilst watching telly

But the simple formUlar for work done, Reveals all you need to know, if you've Done more work, in kj,moving moving weights than jumping up and down, then you have burn more calleries. Your Tour de, France riders burn about 2000, calories an hour, but that is not a typical cardio work out, very few people can get over 500 am hour, in fact very few people can can get their heart rAte up significantly and keep it there for an hour,

Or,,, someone who slowly walks a mile carrying a 100kg weights will likely burn fat more Calleries than you if you run it


----------



## jobo (Jun 11, 2018)

Malos1979 said:


> I'm not very experienced with weight training but does it have to do with the afterburn from weight training? Something cardio doesn't have? What makes it more efficient?
> 
> Not sure if this is the right method but I do a full body workout (lower and upper body) 3 times a week (weight training), after every session I do 10-15 minutes HIIT.
> 
> I combine this with intermittent fasting.




The other thing is the hiit,myth, that's going round, now don't get me wrong, hiit, has evidence of it good effects,but only in the parameters that were used in the studies, so bouncing your Heart rate ofFmax for 30/ 60 seconds, with very short rests, about half of your surge, has proven benifits, however when people say they are doing 15 mins of that, I have my doubts, as that's impossible for anyone but the hyper fit, they Either arnt, getting their heart rAte high enough or they are having longer rests,( or likely both) that's not to say that medium intensity training isNt benifical, it just not hiit, and you can't claim the same benefits as hiit


----------



## dvcochran (Jun 11, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Have to agree with this.
> While a weight-training workout doesn't typically burn as many calories as a cardio workout weight training is more effective than cardio at building muscle, muscle burns more calories at rest so building muscle is the key to increasing your resting metabolism. Plus muscle strengthening training with weights burns even more calories during the muscle recovery and repair periods for hours and as much as 2 days after a weight training session. So in terms of overall calories burned from any single training session weight training to the next weight training will burn more thereby depleting more fat from the body in the same amount of training time.


I cannot disagree but a better definition of the cardio in question is needed. I was thinking of cardio with weights, kicks, etc... In a purely aerobic scenario like running I agree.


----------



## jobo (Jun 12, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> I cannot disagree but a better definition of the cardio in question is needed. I was thinking of cardio with weights, kicks, etc... In a purely aerobic scenario like running I agree.



The problem is people using the term cardio when they mean aerobic, anything that ramps the heart up, is cardio, training your aerobic system is a bit different, that is purely, increasing the bodies ability metabolis , transport , useand store oxygen, even then their is likely to be an increase in muscle size as a byprodict , if you start kicking things, even running, then a certain amount with be done by the anaerobic system


----------



## dvcochran (Jun 12, 2018)

ut





jobo said:


> The problem is people using the term cardio when they mean aerobic, anything that ramps the heart up, is cardio, training your aerobic system is a bit different, that is purely, increasing the bodies ability metabolis , transport , useand store oxygen, even then their is likely to be an increase in muscle size as a byprodict , if you start kicking things, even running, then a certain amount with be done by the anaerobic system



Not necessarily. There is not an anaerobic system per se, there is an anaerobic ENERGY system in the description of anaerobic. In simple terms, aerobic means with oxygen, anaerobic means without. If I kick at a pace that never gets me to the anaerobic phase it is akin to what a healthy runner does.
I am not certain of the exact definition but cardio is anything that gets and keeps the blood pumping at a higher than normal level. 
To the OP's query, I think he was referring to something much more than just an aerobic exercise when he says cardio. 
Age, time to commit, big picture goal(s), all apply to the answer. When I had a trainer for competition, I would weight train mostly with a weight 30%-40% of max for long reps. Shortening and bulking muscles was as always a concern to prevent loss of speed & flexibility.  There was a mild cardio component but not much. I would often do gymnast type static exercises using my body as weight. Very cardio, sometimes close to anaerobic. B*ll busters. I would also do different gasser exercises, totally anaerobic. Much of the intent was to extend my aerobic range and increase my ability to handle the anaerobic stress. The cardio component, of course, followed a very similar curve.


----------



## jobo (Jun 12, 2018)

dvcochran said:


> ut
> 
> Not necessarily. There is not an anaerobic system per se, there is an anaerobic ENERGY system in the description of anaerobic. In simple terms, aerobic means with oxygen, anaerobic means without. If I kick at a pace that never gets me to the anaerobic phase it is akin to what a healthy runner does.
> I am not certain of the exact definition but cardio is anything that gets and keeps the blood pumping at a higher than normal level.
> ...


No, movement use both, if you start kicking a bag, you will first use the anaerobic system, when that is exhausted you move on to the aerobic sysyem, that's why it takes a while to start getting out of breath, as your not using oxigen. Anaerobic exercises do increase the heart rTe, as all though you don't need oxygen for the process you do need blood. then there is the complication that you are carrying more oxygen in the blood stream, so you need to burn that, before you start Metabilising oxigene

If you keep kicking bags your anaerobic capacity will increase to the point that it's very difficult to activate you aerobic capacity. An 800 meter runner will do the whoLe thing, except maybe the Sprint at the end on an Anaeirobic


----------



## APOModern (Jul 1, 2018)

WillSandler66 said:


> Should cardio or muscle be my top priority? Mix of both? I want to reduce pain, have higher stamina while keeping power. I am new to this so any help is appreciated.



Just from doing previous sports and activities, I think it is important to have your definition of what "cardio" and "muscle" are.  Is muscle based on strength or resistance?  Is cardio based on endurance and repetition and precision?  Etc.


----------



## Superperson (Jul 8, 2018)

I think you should focus on both cardio and muscle building. I believe both have their merits in MA and feel that only doing one would not be as beneficial as doing both.


----------

