# Your Karate & are you satisfied.



## gojukylie (Aug 25, 2003)

Interested in comments and thoughts on whether the style of Katate you study is fulfilling, whether it compliments you and any other thoughts regarding this topic. Ta.


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## KenpoMatt (Aug 25, 2003)

I train in American Kenpo. It is my second style, TKD was the first. I find kenpo to be VERY satisfying. I really believe in what I have learned and continue to learn. I think it is an appropriate style for me, especially compared to TKD. I've got some rotten knees from being a runner. And, I don't have particularly long legs. I also believe I'm much much faster with my hands than with my feet. 

Kenpo suits me. I'm a software developer. By nature I'm an analytical person. Kenpo's vocabulary, theories and scientific principles speak to me. 

I'm very glad I found the school where I train.


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## Ender (Aug 25, 2003)

yes, very much so..I started out in Shotokhan...then went to Kenpo....Studied some JKD and Arnis. And I like the way the last three are similar yet distinctively different.


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## gojukylie (Aug 25, 2003)

I have been studying Goju Karate for approx 5 years and loved it the day I started. As soon as I walked into the Dojo I knew that this was for me. The more I went the more I discovered. I thought originally that Karate was about kicking and punching and these patterns where you move around striking, kicking and making loud noises. 

Goju Karate is a really well balanced style that had everything in it that I was searching for. Kihon (Basics), Kata, Bunkai ( pre-arranged applications, both traditional and personal), Sparring, Grappling, weapons training and so much more. 

For a while I studied other forms such as Kung Fu (w/c), Ninjutsu and Kendo. I enjoyed all of these but it didnt impact on me as much as Goju. I even found that I could use what I learned from these other styles and experiment within the Goju style. Good fun.
I think that the style that you study should let you experiment and cultivate different ideas, because you learn so much this way. The most important thing is that it is so much fun. Changed my life for the better.


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## cas (Aug 26, 2003)

I've been training wado-ryu since 1990?1991?. Haven't trained much during my studies though. I love all the different aspects off the training.
Although I had some judo training when I was very young I've never trained in other m.a. / karate-styles.  Wado is the biggest style in the Netherlands. So if you want to train karate it's likely you'll run into wado, o.t.o.h. wado does seem to fit me. Makes me wonder if I would be just as enthousiastic about another style if I would have run into something else.

Casper


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## MJS (Aug 26, 2003)

While I have trained in a few different arts, my main art is American Kenpo.  While it does address many types of situations, I found it necessary to look outside of the art, to round off my training.  I train in BJJ to address the ground.  I train in Arnis to address more of the empty hand defense, as well as the weapons, primarily the stick and the knife. 

While the issue of crosstraining has been discussed many times in other threads, IMO, I feel that it is important to look at the other styles that are out there.  

Mike


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## michaeledward (Aug 28, 2003)

I have been studying American Kenpo for about two and a half years and it has been very satisfying. There is no specific reason why I chose this style over any other. I have only recently been finding out about some of the other styles of Martial Arts that are out there, when I started Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, Tai Chi were all the same (I'm still not sure they are all that different). 

But here is the thing that keeps me coming back. *When I leave the studio, I feel better than when I went in.* It's as simple as that. 

I believe I am learning things that could be used if I ever needed to defend myself. Truthfully, I don't think I will ever be in a situation where my training will be required.  (I can run away better than most.)

My rewards are: 
The Conditioning - I know I am in better physical shape today than I was two years ago.
The Stress Relief - When on the mat ... the only thing on my mind is the technique, form or set we are working on.
The Comaraderie - I work out with a nice group of people.

Thanks - Mike


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## D.Cobb (Aug 29, 2003)

After 4 years of TKD my knees were screwed, then I found an American Kenpo school. I trained in AK for 6 or 7 years. Whilst I was there we had a seminar with an 8th degree where he had spoken about Kenpo starting out with all your fulcrums at the shoulders, being very long. He said it shortens up to fulcrums at the elbows, nice and short, in tight. But, he said, real Kenpo comes from the wrists. He did say however that he hadn't reached that stage yet. When I found my present school, I wanted to add pressure points to what I already knew. One night after class, our instructor put on a video of some of the seniors from The Dragon Society, doing some demo's. They were breaking boards and knocking people down using tiny movements from their wrists. I figured these guys had what was only dreamed about at my old school, so I made the change, and put all my energies into Ryukyu Kempo.
Since then I have grown so much as a human being, I would attribute all the major changes that have taken place in my life, to the training and emphasis on character building, that are so much a part of our training.
--Dave

:asian:


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## twinkletoes (Aug 30, 2003)

Nope.

I've been doing American Kenpo for 15 years, and am finally realizing my dissatisfaction.

My own personal feeling is that the theory and principles taught at my school (I'm not speaking for others) implies a kind of freedom, improvisation, and spontanaeity that are not in ANY way reinforced by the curriculum, nor the teaching method used.  

This leads me to feel that if these philosophical aims are really what I am to aspire to, then I should be doing JKD (not Jun Fan, but JKD).  I also have a background in lots of other things, including FMA and BJJ.  Right now I am concentrating on those, while I decide what to do about my kenpo.

~TT


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## tshadowchaser (Oct 13, 2003)

Seing as I have been with my instuctor over 30 years Yes Im satisfied.
I do however study with people outside of my system to enrich my knowledge and make friends


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## stickarts (Oct 13, 2003)

My main conflict is that there are not enough hours in the day to do it all!
I have as much material to practice as i could wish for.
no school is all inclusive, i appreciate the value that each has to offer.
I still enjoy learning more but i am very happy with the path i am on.


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## Shodan (Oct 13, 2003)

I have studied Kenpo for 17 years now and love it..........my only complaint is that I live so far away from the studio now and don't have any Kenpo studios near me......so I only get my "fix" once a month at the studio........the rest of the time, I am on my own.......:wah: 

:asian:  :karate:


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## 2fisted (Nov 12, 2003)

After one year of shotokan, and three years of Wing Chun, I began studying Goju-ryu for the last year and have no intention of looking back.  It just suits me better than other styles I've just toyed with (Lung Ying, Hung Gar).  Plus my experience in Wing Chun has really helped my development in Goju-ryu, as their philosophies complient each other well.


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## LadyDragon (Nov 20, 2003)

I do EPAK and not only do I enjoy the particular MA that I'm in, but I feel the it suites me almost perfectly.  I can be as gentle and needed or I can be as rough as I've got to be to get the job done.  Everything we do can be changes or altered to suite whom ever is doing the technique.  Its great I love it.


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## vincefuess (Dec 4, 2003)

Wow- There are alot of posts from fellow Kenpoists here!

I studied Goju-Ryu for a few years and enjoyed it immensely.  Unfortunately, in the small town I grew up in, martial arts instructors could not make a living and didn't stick around long.  Hence, my instructor moved away and I moved on.

In the following years, instructors came and went, and most were Korean stylists as back in the 70's and 80's TKD was the most prominent art on these shores.  I came to love the Korean arts, and found myself quite adept at kicking.  Through a number of instructors, I learned kicking skills that in retrospect were quite useless (aside from developing balance, strength, timing, and flexibility, hee hee) but were fun as heck!  Jumping, spinning kicks that ripped heavy bags from their mounts were my forte', and made for great exhibitions.  There is no denying the raw power derived from the centrifugal force of true spin-kick, just take a gander at Master Hee-Il-Cho's book "Man-of-Contrasts" and see the pics of him splitting a heavy bag IN HALF at at least six feet off the floor!  Practical?  No.  Impressive? WAY.

Anyway, when I got out of college and settled down in the big city, I chose Kenpo as the art to pursue.  Not so much because of what the art was as much as I was impressed by the credentials and establishment of the instructor (he had been at the same location for twenty years and had numerous black belt students).  While I trained in Kenpo, I never forgot my Korean roots, and always prided myself on being the big (220 lb) Kenpo guy who could throw a spinkick over ANYONE'S head.  ( I even have an autographed pic of Herb Perez, Olympic TKD Gold Medalist, lauding my kicking ability)

I am just tooting my own horn to make a point.  Arthritis hit me hard a few years ago and almost crippled me (did for awhile).  What's worse is it crippled my spirit.  After years of being so full of foolish pride at my physical abilities they were robbed from me, or so I felt.  I had to give up my training and I took to drugs to kill the pain, and the pain became ME.

I have (with the love of God and friends) since then learned that there is so much more to the martial arts and to life than just being good at something.  All those years I spent with what seemed to be serving myself, to being as good as I could for my own ego, actually taught me things I never realised before now.  Now, instead of being "Mr. Kickass", I am now "Mr. Teacher".  And I do not expect, nor influence my students to kick higher or be stronger or be anything but better people than they were an hour ago.  I have learned that the martial arts are not about being the best fighter, because someone is always better.  You can kick as high as you want, but someone will always kick higher.  Break as many bricks as you can, and there is always another brick.

Your life only happens once.  If you are happy in your art, then just be happy.


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## gojukylie (Dec 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by vincefuess _
> 
> 
> Your life only happens once.  If you are happy in your art, then just be happy. [/B]



 In my opinion, this is a sign of a true martial artist. Thankyou for your reply, and for the wise words of self realisation. I found answers in your post.

With gratitiude..:asian:


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## drunken mistress (Feb 5, 2004)

I started with Shukokai Karate for the first seven months before our teacher left for another country. The only black belt teacher we could find to take over was Freestyle and some Shotokan. The class is very much about sparring now. I like both forms but miss the Japanese words and frequent practice of the katas in Shukokai.


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## Druss (Feb 10, 2004)

I too have been impresssed by Vinces experience.

Osu


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 11, 2004)

I think i am satisfied with my art Im still doing it and learning after 30+ years of study


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## Ceicei (Feb 11, 2004)

I'm happy where I am now.  I've always studied EPAK, but I have been to four different dojos prior to my current one (for various reasons).  I now feel like I found "home" as I love the atmosphere and teaching style of the dojo.

- Ceicei


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## wadokai_indo (Mar 25, 2004)

cas said:
			
		

> I've been training wado-ryu since 1990?1991?. Haven't trained much during my studies though. I love all the different aspects off the training.
> Although I had some judo training when I was very young I've never trained in other m.a. / karate-styles. Wado is the biggest style in the Netherlands. So if you want to train karate it's likely you'll run into wado, o.t.o.h. wado does seem to fit me. Makes me wonder if I would be just as enthousiastic about another style if I would have run into something else.
> 
> Casper


 
Hello Casper, hoe gaat het? I study Wado-ryu too, and have some Wado-ryu friends from the Netherlands as well, one of them is Igor Asselbergs who runs www.wadoworld.com 


I studied Jujutsu before Wado-ryu, I got instructor's license in Jujutsu long before I got my instructor's license in Wado-ryu. I did some Yoshin-ryu too by the way, and I am pleased to know that Yoshin-ryu's principles such as noru, nagashu, inashu, proper use of taisabaki and the use of soft blocks/parries are still present in Wado-ryu. In fact many paired Kata of Wado-ryu are direct port from Yoshin-ryu, so I have no trouble adjusting. I think Wado-ryu is an evolution of old Jujutsu, enriched with solo Kata and methods from Okinawan Kenpo. It is a wonderful style, combining the best of both worlds. Too bad many modern Wado-ryu dojos has forgotten alot of its Jujutsu and cares too much about sport Karate.

I delved a bit into Goju-ryu as well and liked it tremendously, the Kata's of Goju-ryu is incredible, I even adopt Sanchin, Seienchin, Seishan, Sanseiryu, Kururunfa and Tensho into my personal training regime. Being a Kata guy I love to study Kata's of other style, its very good exercise for the mind and the body.

Well, take care and have fun training!

Your friend from Indonesia,

Ben Haryo


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## cas (Mar 26, 2004)

wadokai_indo said:
			
		

> Hello Casper, hoe gaat het? I study Wado-ryu too, and have some Wado-ryu friends from the Netherlands as well, one of them is Igor Asselbergs who runs www.wadoworld.com



Hello Ben,

Het gaat goed dankjewel. I've read and enjoyed your posts on the yahoogroup I've also visited your website wich I found very informative.
I usually don't post at the yahoogroup because I have little to ad to the discussions but I do enjoy reading the posts and searching for old posts there.
I think there are many aspects in wado that all deserve attention. To see someone senior perform kata is beautifull, to see someone attack during sparring untill his/ her opponent is on the ground is also inspiring. To see a great fighter with great form is awesome. Focussing to much on just form or just fighting and lessons will be lost. Then again I spent so little time training that most lessons take long for me to learn. Maybe I can get some more time to train in the near future.
I read you asked about sutemiwaza on the yahoo group. Are you aware of Ishikawa sensei's website http://www.ishikawa.nl/ ? it lists a curriculum including sutemi-waza.

thank you for your information.

Good luck,

Casper Baar


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## wadokai_indo (Mar 26, 2004)

cas said:
			
		

> Hello Ben,
> 
> Het gaat goed dankjewel. I've read and enjoyed your posts on the yahoogroup I've also visited your website wich I found very informative.
> I usually don't post at the yahoogroup because I have little to ad to the discussions but I do enjoy reading the posts and searching for old posts there.
> ...


Goedenavond Casper!

I have visited Ishikawa sensei's site from your URL. Yes very interesting syllabus, it is remarkably similar with the one I have, which came from the original Wado-ryu syllabus as submitted to the Butokukai by Otsuka sensei. So do you practice the entire syllabus? Here in Indonesia there are still many things missing, we do not yet practice sakatsu jizai, fujin goshinjutsu, raitaidori etc. Tachiai is taught but not in Kata form (straight to applications). I am trying to get Jiro sensei's video, it is said that it contains more Tachiai and fujin goshinjutsu.

It is very nice to discover another Wado-friend in the internet. Lets hope this will be a start of a wonderful friendship!

Your friend in Wa,

Ben Haryo


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## cas (Mar 27, 2004)

Goedenavond Ben,

I'm a kyugrade practioner so I concentrate on the shodan-curriculum. Sometimes we do practice some defence against knife or sword but mostly it's kihon kumite, ohyokumite and ippon and sanbon kumite for me. For BB we practice the pinans, kushanku and naifanchi. This means I'm not familiar with many parts of the syllabus. On the other hand we often refer to a throw with for instance "that throw from the third ohyo" without knowing the japanese name of the technique. We also practice some 10 different jyuji-uke (?cross blocks?) in our kyu grade syllabus. The owner of our school has a lot of experience in jujitsu and judo I think he introduced these from his own jujitsu background.  
We are not directly associated with Ishikawa sensei. Our dangrades get tested through the KBN (dutch karate association). We do go to seminars taught by him but lessons from other senior teachers are also valued. For instance I think the KBN asks for Ishikawa senseis ohyokumites (the first three) for BB but seniors in our dojo also practice Suzuki senseis ohyokumites. If I may ask you a question how long do you think a pinan-kata, for instance pinan shodan, should take? 

vriendelijke groeten,

Casper 





			
				wadokai_indo said:
			
		

> Goedenavond Casper!
> 
> I have visited Ishikawa sensei's site from your URL. Yes very interesting syllabus, it is remarkably similar with the one I have, which came from the original Wado-ryu syllabus as submitted to the Butokukai by Otsuka sensei. So do you practice the entire syllabus? Here in Indonesia there are still many things missing, we do not yet practice sakatsu jizai, fujin goshinjutsu, raitaidori etc. Tachiai is taught but not in Kata form (straight to applications). I am trying to get Jiro sensei's video, it is said that it contains more Tachiai and fujin goshinjutsu.
> 
> ...


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## wadokai_indo (Mar 27, 2004)

cas said:
			
		

> Goedenavond Ben,
> 
> I'm a kyugrade practioner so I concentrate on the shodan-curriculum. Sometimes we do practice some defence against knife or sword but mostly it's kihon kumite, ohyokumite and ippon and sanbon kumite for me. For BB we practice the pinans, kushanku and naifanchi. This means I'm not familiar with many parts of the syllabus. On the other hand we often refer to a throw with for instance "that throw from the third ohyo" without knowing the japanese name of the technique. We also practice some 10 different jyuji-uke (?cross blocks?) in our kyu grade syllabus. The owner of our school has a lot of experience in jujitsu and judo I think he introduced these from his own jujitsu background.
> We are not directly associated with Ishikawa sensei. Our dangrades get tested through the KBN (dutch karate association). We do go to seminars taught by him but lessons from other senior teachers are also valued. For instance I think the KBN asks for Ishikawa senseis ohyokumites (the first three) for BB but seniors in our dojo also practice Suzuki senseis ohyokumites. If I may ask you a question how long do you think a pinan-kata, for instance pinan shodan, should take?
> ...


Hello Casper,

Your situation is much better than what we have in Indonesia. I am the luckiest devil in the world, I study Wado directly from Mr. Taman, one of the fortunate person who had "felt the guiding hand of Otsuka sensei" directly. So I can pretty much get many things. But my fellow Indonesian-friends who lives in far provinces (you know Indonesia is very very big) cannot train direct with him, so they train only Kumite and Kihon. Their Kata is all wrong because they met my teacher very sporadically. They know no Jujutsu techniques at all. Very sad. You are lucky to have time and chance to learn correct Wado-kata and some Jujutsu techniques under qualified Wado instructors. Many people are not that lucky.

Regarding Pinans, you mean the exact duration of each Kata, or the time it should take to learn them? I cannot give exact answer because each person are different. I am a person who likes attention to detail, so I tend to finish a Kata much slower than my friends, for example, for Pinan Godan I tend to finish in a minute, while other Dojo-friend took faster. 

In terms of time it takes to learn each Kata, I learned from Mr. Taman direct, I was his uchideshi or so to speak. I think with serious and concentrated training, we can memorize the movements of each Pinan within one month (this is assuming we train daily). So, in one month we only train that Kata, not doing Kumite or Jujutsu, just Kata and Kihon and applications of each movements. Within 5 months you will be able to memorize the movements of each Pinan. But with this way of training you will be very lousy at Kumite, like me  

I started Karate too late, I did not start at my teenage years like all those great sport Karateka. so Mr. Taman said "you should not do sport Karate, you are a Jujutsu man, your instinct is to throw. I will train you to be Kata specialist and assistant in Jujutsu". And yes everytime Mr. Taman need Uke for knife defense or Kihon Kumite or other Jujutsu-aspect demonstration, he will use me. 

BTW, we don't train in Ohyokumite and Sanbonkumite, they are specific creation of Suzuki sensei. But we do Kumitegata, we refer to it as the "Kuzushi" Kata, so we unbalance the opponent but not throwing him down. It is said that this was the latest creation of Otsuka sensei. Do you practice this one too? There is a video of this, I have it, it shows Otsuka sensei demonstrated with his son. In the same video there is also Otsuka sensei demonstrated some Tantodori and some Tachidori as well.

If you have time, just contact my friend Igor Asselbergs. I am sure he will be glad to assist you in learning JKF-WK style of Wado-ryu.

It is very good your teacher knows some Judo and Jujutsu from his early training, so he is like myself right? hehehe. What are your thoughts of training in Judo and Jujutsu alongside Wado? 

Have fun training!

Ben


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## cas (Mar 28, 2004)

Hello Ben,

Thank you for all your information. My question was about the duration of a pinan kata not the time it takes to learn the moves I should have been more clear. But both of your answers were interesting. We do not practice the kumite gata. Also I have to say that I don't practice judo or jujitsu. My teacher (actually he has thaught me when I just started but some years after his students where always the teacher) is primaraly a judo & jujitsu man. Karate is his third art. After I make shodan (someday) I will probably start learning a wrestling art. Learning some ne-waza and better learning how to throw a strugling opponent would be nice.

To others on this forum. This has become a thread hi-jack, my apologies but the discussion is very interessting to me, I hope you don't mind.

Casper


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## wadokai_indo (Mar 28, 2004)

cas said:
			
		

> Hello Ben,
> 
> Thank you for all your information. My question was about the duration of a pinan kata not the time it takes to learn the moves I should have been more clear. But both of your answers were interesting. We do not practice the kumite gata. Also I have to say that I don't practice judo or jujitsu. My teacher (actually he has thaught me when I just started but some years after his students where always the teacher) is primaraly a judo & jujitsu man. Karate is his third art. After I make shodan (someday) I will probably start learning a wrestling art. Learning some ne-waza and better learning how to throw a strugling opponent would be nice.
> 
> ...


You are most welcome Casper-san. Ah, also, my sincerest apologies to others in this forum. Casper, let's carry on the discussion in Wado-specific thread shall we?

Ben


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## Gary Crawford (Mar 28, 2004)

vincefuess said:
			
		

> Wow- There are alot of posts from fellow Kenpoists here!
> 
> I studied Goju-Ryu for a few years and enjoyed it immensely.  Unfortunately, in the small town I grew up in, martial arts instructors could not make a living and didn't stick around long.  Hence, my instructor moved away and I moved on.
> 
> ...


Wow! That was the most inspirational thiing I have ever read.You have very lucky students.


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## rschoon (Apr 5, 2004)

I started in TKD i the early 80's.  I was blessed because my instructor was a Green Beret in Viet Nam and taught a "modified version".  I only did that for about 2 years.  in 1993 i started EPAK and have found my base.  I try to do a bit of stickwork but i only get instruction 2 or 3 times a year as my intructor lives about 8 hours away and work prevents me from more than that.  It seems that Kenpo and Escrima work well together as the priciples of motion most certainly apply.

Rick


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## wisdomstrikes (Apr 5, 2004)

Escima and kenpo do work well together.  Both escrima and kenpo utilize either weapons or empty hands to their max.  Escrima allows you to stirke from any position as does kenpo.  Escrima by its self is very effective, so by adding never ending motions will allow one to become very deadly.

-WISDOMSTRIKES


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## FlyingChopSticks (Apr 9, 2004)

Salutations fellow karatekas! 
It's been almost 2 years now since I started learning Goju Ryu.
Before learning karate, I held a green belt in TKD. Finding TKD wasn't practical 
for me I decided to move on.
I found that Goju Ryu was more explosive in close combat.
Though training at my dojo was tough, I enjoyed every lesson. Never looked back ever since  :uhyeah:


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## 2fisted (Apr 9, 2004)

Hey good to see another Goju-ka here!


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## celtic bhoy (Apr 10, 2004)

Is Wado also a close range style?


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## wadokai_indo (Apr 11, 2004)

Yes, Wado-ryu came from Shindo Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu and thus it contains close range techniques such as throwing, joint locking and knee strikes.

Ben Haryo

GBI Club Instructor


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