# For all you martial arts fashion plates...



## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

*Red Lizard: Step Out In Style*


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

Is no one else tired of Sharp Phil's egotistical self-promoting posts other than myself?

I thought this board was for martial arts discussion, but thats just me.

7sm


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

It's egotistical to create something and wish to share it with those who might find it useful?

It's egotistical to post a lighthearted link to a company that happens to make t-shirts you might enjoy wearing?

Is anyone tired of petty, petulant geeks who can't stand it when other people have opinions and express them?


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## Kroy (Sep 26, 2003)

I dont think your egotistical Sharp Phil.:asian:


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, hell, I don't mind being called egotistical at all.  I just think it's silly to jump on someone for daring to write articles about the martial arts, or for posting links to those articles on the theory that they will be useful to others.  Granted, this one is a little off topic, but it seemed harmless and light-hearted to me.  It's hardly "self-promoting" to talk about a company that isn't mine and in whose profits I have no share.


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## Kroy (Sep 26, 2003)

Oh and thanks for the link to Red lizzard, looks pretty cool.


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kroy _
> Oh and thanks for the link to Red lizzard, looks pretty cool.



Thanks.  That was the whole point of posting it.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *Is no one else tired of Sharp Phil's egotistical self-promoting posts other than myself?
> 
> I thought this board was for martial arts discussion, but thats just me.
> ...



No. Don't be a dork. Phil has been posting links to articles he writes for free. These articles spark good discussions. What's wrong with that? And, I have yet to see one article where he "promotes" himself. He may express ideas, but that is what a talk forum is all about.

His articles are good, informative, sometimes controversial, and clearly appropriate conversation starters.

I think that it is a misunderstanding for you to believe that Phil is promoting himself. The product on this thread isn't even his company.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *Thanks.  That was the whole point of posting it. *



Yes...thank you Phil...and keep posting!


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

Wow, I had no idea a few words would make you blush. I appologize if I seemed harsh, I was just asking, as I have been watching his posts from the begining, and while I feel no ill will towards Sharp Phil, I don't see how these posts belong in the martial arts discussion forum, maybe in the Locker Room or something? Phil's opinion on martial arts and such seem great, and I'm glad he takes the time to think so deeply about these issues, but this post is out of place in my opinion. Thats all I was saying. I'm sorry if my opnion offended you guys.



> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *Is anyone tired of petty, petulant geeks who can't stand it when other people have opinions and express them? *


Oh and Sharp Phil, don't be so quick to lash out at people's opinions, that may be the reason I feel that you are a bit egocentric. If my post offended you, then wouldn't you think that by that same reasoning your post would offend me? So why go ahead and post it knowing that?

7sm


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

> Wow, I had no idea a few words would make you blush.



Translation:  _"Wow, I had no idea my petty criticism wouldn't be supported, so now I had better backpedal furiously so I don't get hit with the backlash."_



> I appologize if I seemed harsh, I was just asking, as I have been watching his posts from the begining, and while I feel no ill will towards Sharp Phil...



To be blunt, you're a liar.  You posted a personal attack and are now trying to hide behind a very transparent excuse.  "Gosh, I was just asking."  No, you weren't "just asking."  You were being obnoxious.



> ...I don't see how these posts belong in the martial arts discussion forum, maybe in the Locker Room or something?



I post ABOUT THE MARTIAL ARTS.  That's why my posts belong here.  Granted, this _particular_ post could be a locker room post, but its audience is those who participate in the martial arts and wear clothes -- which encompasses everyone here.



> ...Phil's opinion on martial arts and such seem great, and I'm glad he takes the time to think so deeply about these issues, but this post is out of place in my opinion.



You could have said that, but you didn't.  Instead, you posted an extremely hostile and childish insult.  You are now trying to pretend that is not what happened.



> Thats all I was saying. I'm sorry if my opnion offended you guys.



No, you're not sorry.  People who are deliberately offensive and then apologize for it are simply sorry _that they got caught being deliberately offensive_.



> Oh and Sharp Phil, don't be so quick to lash out at people's opinions, that may be the reason I feel that you are a bit egocentric.



I only lash out at those who lash out at me.  Your post was childish and hostile;  it warranted a harsh response.



> If my post offended you, then wouldn't you think that by that same reasoning your post would offend me? So why go ahead and post it knowing that?



You need to understand the difference between _initated_ and _retaliatory_ force.  _You_ set the tone for the exchange.  Frankly, I don't care if you get offended.  You gave up any claim you might have to civil treatment when you chose to behave in an uncivil fashion.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

No prob...I wasn't angry. I just thought that there might have been a misunderstanding.

I think Phil usually posts his article links in the right spot. When it pertains to knife stuff, for instance, he posts in the knife forum. If it pertains to General MA'ists, he posts it here. I haven't had a problem yet.

Now, if he was constantly promoting HIS products, then yes, it would be annoying. It would belong in Advertising or Merchandise area of MT, and not here.

However, he usually isn't plugging a product, he is trying to strike up a discussion. Even though this one was about a clothing co., it wasn't HIS co., so he was just giving it a product review. It's tough, because Where do you put a general product review for a product that all MA use? The General forum is one logical place, bu there may be others.

I just think that there might have been a misunderstanding as to why Phil posts, because I don't believe it is shameless self promotion.

:asian:


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

Don't worry, Paul -- your response was right on track (and I thank you very much for your kind words).  What we're seeing is the predictable behavior of someone who, confronted with responses he didn't expect, tries to rewrite history to avoid catching heat for it.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

How do you guys feel about wearing clothing that blatently advertises what you do. Jackets with your School name on them, etc.? 

Do you think that it violates good sense for self defense, or not? Or do you think it depends on the circumstance?

Anyone?


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> How do you guys feel about wearing clothing that blatently advertises what you do. Jackets with your School name on them, etc.?
> 
> Do you think that it violates good sense for self defense, or not? Or do you think it depends on the circumstance?
> ...



I posted a link in the review to an article by Pete Kautz of Alliance Martial Arts called "I Conceal My Treasure."  In that article, he explicitly warns _against_ wearing such clothing to avoid antagonizing or otherwise posing challenges to others (not to mention forewarning potentially hostile individuals).

I do think, however, that such clothing has its place -- for instance, at seminars and martial arts-related events and when you're with friends who know you and what you do.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *Don't worry, Paul -- your response was right on track (and I thank you very much for your kind words).  What we're seeing is the predictable behavior of someone who, confronted with responses he didn't expect, tries to rewrite history to avoid catching heat for it. *



No problem. Nice response also, by the way (to the slam)! :rofl: 

Oh..and that reminds me...*Note to self: do not post obnoxious things towards Phil on the net, unless I want my @$$ appropriatly and logically hammered to the floor.* end note. :rolf: :hammer:


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 26, 2003)

Guys, play nice.  I can't afford the gas my clunker would require so I can drive out there to kick you all repeatedly in the foot with my ***.   


Seriously... While I may not agree at all times with what Phil writes, the majority of his stuff tends to generate a decent amount of interesting and sometimes controvercial posts.  IMHO, this is all good.  Sure, certain thigns could be put in a different forum, but let us know where, and we're always happy to move some stuff around.



If there is an actual problem, please use the 'Report' function.

Thank you.


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

Not to worry, Bob.  I generally try to be polite, but I don't react well to being poked with sticks.


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *I posted a link in the review to an article by Pete Kautz of Alliance Martial Arts called "I Conceal My Treasure."  In that article, he explicitly warns against wearing such clothing to avoid antagonizing or otherwise posing challenges to others (not to mention forewarning potentially hostile individuals).
> 
> I do think, however, that such clothing has its place -- for instance, at seminars and martial arts-related events and when you're with friends who know you and what you do. *



I wholeheartedly agree. I think that MA clothing has it's place, like seminars and what not. If I am going out to dinner or something after a seminar, I am not going to run home and change unless I am eating in a threatening environment (which I shouldn't be in anyways). I know some instructors who own schools and organizations who frequently wear clothing representing their art or school: the idea is they are a walking billboard for their school. I think that this is O.K. also, as long as their smart enough to put on something more appropriate if they are going to the bar, or something.

I think that that Shirts or Jackets with really loud lettering that scream "I am a martial artist" or "I am a tough guy" is totally uncalled for, and can get the wearer in trouble if someone is looking to cause it.

One dumb move I made when I was 20 yrs. old is I thought it would be "cool" to have "stickfighter" personalized on my license plate. I will admit that this was a dumb move on my part. However, it was quite humerous also because I could only have 7 letters, so my plate actually said: "STKFHTR." It made sense to me at the time, but unfortunatily I think about only twice did someone actually get it right. What was the most funny about this was, people more often then anything else thought it said "steak father".  :rofl: I found this to be hilarious because "T" comes before "H" in "father," and it isn't like that on my plate. So to me this seemed quite illiterate. Some would say, "So...does your license plate say 'steak-father'?" I would usually reply, "Why yes it does....I got it because 'meat daddy' was taken." :rofl: :rofl: You should have seen their faces after that!

I was very lucky, however, that my retarded plate never got me in trouble. I would say that no one needs to advertize how bad @$$ they are, through a plate, a shirt, or what ever. To do so isn't streetwise, in my opinion.


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> *Don't worry, Paul -- your response was right on track (and I thank you very much for your kind words).  What we're seeing is the predictable behavior of someone who, confronted with responses he didn't expect, tries to rewrite history to avoid catching heat for it. *


Dear God Phil, I did not nor do I appologize for my comments, I was trying to further explain to those still level headed enough to try and understand what I said, that I ment no disrespect. But seeing how you did mean to disrespect me ala... 





> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil _
> * Frankly, I don't care if you get offended*


As a martial artist, one should attempt to keep peace, not instigate trouble, this is why I originally said I felt you were egocentric (Confined in attitude or interest to one's own needs or affairs. ) ala ... 





> _Originally posted by Sharp Phil_
> *I only lash out at those who lash out at me. Your post was childish and hostile; it warranted a harsh response.*


Some who posted after me were genuinly concerned with helping the misunderstanding, or resolving a conflict. As I read those posts, I thought, "Maybe I was a little harsh, and maybe I should give Sharp Phil's writtings another chance", HOWEVER, after your polite and candid response, I agree with my original ideas of you and your writting.
I believe you are not trying to "turn the other cheek" or help resolve conflict, but stir up and antagonize more disruption. This is the sign of a true martial artist.

7sm


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

Oh boy....

Here we go....opcorn:


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Oh boy....
> 
> Here we go....opcorn: *



Naa, I'm done....I have nothign else to say

7sm


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## Master of Blades (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *Naa, I'm done....I have nothign else to say
> 
> 7sm *




Until Phil says the next thing you mean....:shrug:


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## Phil Elmore (Sep 26, 2003)

> Dear God Phil, I did not nor do I appologize for my comments



Sounds fairly obnoxious to me.



> I was trying to further explain to those still level headed enough to try and understand what I said, that I ment no disrespect. But seeing how you did mean to disrespect me...



Oh, don't compound the problem by lying about it.  You weren't "further trying to explain."  You made an obnoxious, snarky comment, didn't provoke the angry mob you were looking for, and got scared when it looked like you might take heat for behaving in such a childish fashion.



> As a martial artist, one should attempt to keep peace, not instigate trouble, this is why I originally said I felt you were egocentric



Your original post was intended and constructed for no other purpose than to instigate trouble.  Do not expect us to swallow this incredibly hypocritical tripe that you believe in "keeping the peace" and trying not to "instigate" things when that is precisely what your originally post was _tailor-made_ to do.



> Some who posted after me were genuinly concerned with helping the misunderstanding, or resolving a conflict.



There was no misunderstanding.  There was only you attempting to start trouble and then backpedaling furiously when you got more retaliatory heat than you bargained for.



> As I read those posts, I thought, "Maybe I was a little harsh, and maybe I should give Sharp Phil's writtings another chance"



Spare us the revisionism.  It is not credible.  You are simply making excuses.



> HOWEVER, after your polite and candid response, I agree with my original ideas of you and your writting.



You may think whatever you wish.  I, in turn, have formed certain opinions about you that I did not have before you decided to behave so disrespectfully today.



> I believe you are not trying to "turn the other cheek"...



I am not a Christian.



> ...or help resolve conflict, but stir up and antagonize more disruption.



YOU chose to "stir up and antagonize" by making your post.  Do not now start whining that I refuse to "resolve" a conflict of YOUR making. 



> This is the sign of a true martial artist.



You'll pardon me if I don't place much faith in your opinions of what a "true" martial artist might be.  If that is the case, you are not one.  If it _isn't_ the case, you're wrong again.  Either way, it's a losing scenario.

Do yourself a favor and don't dig the hole any deeper.

I am not interested in arguing with you.  I will not, however, simply stand by and allow you to attack me for no good reason.  That is what you did, and that is why I harshly slapped you down for it.  

Let it go and we will not have a problem.


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *Until Phil says the next thing you mean....:shrug: *



Naa, I'm truly done...nothing left to say, if I continue I'll only be arguing and thats moot.

7sm


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## Master of Blades (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *Naa, I'm truly done...nothing left to say, if I continue I'll only be arguing and thats moot.
> 
> 7sm *



Impressive, well I guess that means everything is good and done. Nothing more to say, move along people, nothing to see here


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## Cruentus (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *Impressive, well I guess that means everything is good and done. Nothing more to say, move along people, nothing to see here  *



Unless we want to have a more productive discussion on...

1. the product

2. your feelings on wearing Martial Arts stuff in public

3. hot women

Why hot women, you ask? Because we can ALWAYS devert the topic to hot women! (I think it is in the MT rules somehere...right?...Kaith!!)


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## Master of Blades (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Unless we want to have a more productive discussion on...
> 
> 1. the product
> ...




Speaking of hot women.....I think my girlfriend would like nice in one of those T-Shirts


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## 7starmantis (Sep 26, 2003)

Hot women is a pretty good topic to divert to!

7sm


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 26, 2003)

Well, as ravishing as Phil looks in his shirt, I've yet to find a better looking one that this one:


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## TheRustyOne (Sep 26, 2003)

may I just say about that picture above, she rocks that! SharpPhil, I shall browse tonight *grin*


Me, I see nothing wrong with wearing clothing that's a walking advertisement. But that's just me, and I'm a dork. The only time I wouldn't, is if I KNOW I'm going somewhere my butt could get jumped... Like wearing one high school's jacket into the enemies territory...

...but then again, that's just me...and i'm wearing an ad. for monty python right now, anyway.


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## Ceicei (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *I
> One dumb move I made when I was 20 yrs. old is I thought it would be "cool" to have "stickfighter" personalized on my license plate. I will admit that this was a dumb move on my part. However, it was quite humerous also because I could only have 7 letters, so my plate actually said: "STKFHTR." *



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Thanks for giving me a laugh for the day!!!  

:rofl: 

- Ceicei


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## Ceicei (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *
> I believe you are not trying to "turn the other cheek" or help resolve conflict, but stir up and antagonize more disruption. This is the sign of a true martial artist.
> 
> 7sm *



Umm, is what Phil does considered a true sign?  

The quote probably could use a re-writing... although I understood perfectly well what you were trying to say.

- Ceicei


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## Kroy (Sep 27, 2003)

Wow, that was better than Tito and Randys fight.


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## leehoicheun (Nov 27, 2003)

ok you two...... to other sides of the room. No need to get all pissy. Life is short. 


O personally like reading what Phill has to say and I'm sure others agree. If they didn't then he most likely would have been kicked from the forum. But obviously the admins feel that his contributions are valuable..... even if at time they stray a little from the main topic........ but only a little. 

so come on guys............ cyber hug and forget ok :asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *. . .
> One dumb move I made when I was 20 yrs. old is I thought it would be "cool" to have "stickfighter" personalized on my license plate. I will admit that this was a dumb move on my part. However, it was quite humerous also because I could only have 7 letters, so my plate actually said: "STKFHTR." It made sense to me at the time, but unfortunatily I think about only twice did someone actually get it right. What was the most funny about this was, people more often then anything else thought it said "steak father".  :rofl: I found this to be hilarious because "T" comes before "H" in "father," and it isn't like that on my plate. So to me this seemed quite illiterate. Some would say, "So...does your license plate say 'steak-father'?" I would usually reply, "Why yes it does....I got it because 'meat daddy' was taken." :rofl: :rofl: You should have seen their faces after that!
> . . .
> *




But, Paul, you forget that I am Lexdysic, and what you write and what I read are way different things. I know I said that to you in Buffalo. I assumed it was stick fighter, since you were at a stick camp and you were way to fast on interrupting me what I said Steak Father, and you replied Meat Daddy was taken.

Now your plate  has something about a shipping company, only it was miss-spelled 
:asian:


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## arnisador (Nov 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *How do you guys feel about wearing clothing that blatently advertises what you do. Jackets with your School name on them, etc.?
> 
> Do you think that it violates good sense for self defense, or not?*



Asa  rule, I think it's better not to wear such--though as has been pointed out, of course there are exceptions!


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## theletch1 (Nov 28, 2003)

> Do you think that it violates good sense for self defense, or not?


 I'd have to agree with the idea that it depends on where I'm going.  I DO NOT wear logos when I'm going into the downtown area.  If I wear a logo t-shirt to work I always have a button up shirt over it so that when I get out of the truck I can cover the t-shirt.  I haven't even purchased anything with the logo of my current school on it.  There's only one design to choose from and it isn't promoted by the sensei.  It's there if you want it and I don't think I've ever heard him mention it.  I've only seen one other student wear one.   My last school was just the opposite.  The instructor was constantly shoving the latest jacket or t-shirt design down your throat.  Buy this, buy that.  I don't know about fashion sense but it seems that wearing a martial arts t-shirt in an area that you know is prone to problems is like wearing a tee that says "I'm carrying a concealed weapon, please test me."


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## leehoicheun (Nov 28, 2003)

in all honesty not many poeple.... especially men... care what other poeple are wearing .... let a lone take the time to notice the logo on someones shirt that is usually too small to see form a distance. I don't have a problem wearing a shirt that symbolizes something I like. 

For example: I just got back from a seminar featuring Guru Dan Inosanto and a whole bunch of other martial artists such as Guru Rick Tucci, Capoeira master Edna Lima and a few of the Muchado Juijitsu guys. I picked up a cool long sleeve shirt that had all the typical Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do and Kali-Escrima logos and put it on after the first day of training. I loved the shirt so much I wore it the next training day and even on my way home. Now here's the fun part..... the seminar was in New York City  

so here I am...... walking around wearing black sweats, sneakers, and the shirt. No one looked twice at me. Most likely because they didn't care. 

I honestly think that it doesn't matter whether you wear a school shirt or not that is going to get you in trouble. I think how you present yourself to people is the main thing. If people come up to you because you are wearing a school shirt and want to fight or test you..... maybe your poise needs some adjustment.

so to sum it up...... wear what you want. Why limit yourself? Like it says in the Toa Te Ching 





> Care about others aproval and you will forever be their slave.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 28, 2003)

Logos and the problems it can cause.

I was flying back from Nygoya Jaopan, direct to Detroit.

I walked onto the plane with a logo shirt that had a small logo over the chest, and a sword in the logo. I had the cheif stewardess's complete attention when she saw me. Someone else hit a button and by the time I have been given directs to my seat, All of the stewards and stewardesses were in the isle watching me. They did not stop watching me, whcih is kind of funny since all the passengers wanted to see what had attracted the attention of the staff. As I sat, I could see abunch relax as I was not in their area. Yet I could see them checking the row number. Before I could get to the sitting position the stewardess for my area asked if I needed anything. I siad Orange Juice. She then asked if I wanted alcohol. I beleive if Iwould ahve drank some alcohol it would have helped. Yet instead I naturally replied. I do not drink aocohol on a plane. I like the OJ so as I do not get dehydrated. AS I was by a bulkhead, she fixed me the drink while talking to me. She talked to me for about 5 minutes, even refilling my drink and ignoring other requests from other passengers. She was searching for me to say certain words and to give some back ground on me and where I am from. Why I was travelling and who yeah you collect swords? I then had to expalin that you could get swords from Renaisance fairs and RPG events and off the internet. Once she was satisfied, she then reported to the Cheif Stewardess, and the rest of the flight was fine. Although the poor doctor who had just done two months of volunteer work in the PI was afraid of me the whole way home.

Do not go through customs or travel on planes with logos. THat is my recommendation.

:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by leehoicheun _
> *in all honesty not many poeple.... especially men... care what other poeple are wearing .... let a lone take the time to notice the logo on someones shirt that is usually too small to see form a distance. I don't have a problem wearing a shirt that symbolizes something I like.
> 
> . . . *




I bounced so I watch peopel are wearing, and if they are carrying, and if their logos tell me something about their style fo fighting.

Just me though.


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 29, 2003)

If I got a MA logo shirt, it'd be worn to the safest place around...to bed! 

I now have a job at a Peace Frogs store (anyone even remember Peace Frogs??), and am ending up a walking advertisement for the store. *sigh* My boss gave me two shirts to wear at the store, and they end up coming to either school or to the studio because my schedule is school, work, studio.

But I wouldn't have any qualms with having a small bumper sticker on my car. In fact, I'd stick it there to bug my dad, who is completely against me doing anything dealing with the Martial Arts. *snicker*


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## MartialArtsChic (Nov 29, 2003)

I don't really see a problem with wearing a school logo shirt and I agree with a prior post that maybe it's how you present yourself while wearing it if you run into any problems.  

We are getting them and the logo is over the left breast and small in size, but the way I see it for me, if someone saw me wearing that shirt and they had ideas about touching me (Lord knows enough people stare at them), then maybe they would think twice.  To look at me you would never know that I can kick your butt if I had to, so if it may help detract then that's a good thing and if they're dumb enough to try it anyway then they deserve whatever they get.

I also have the Tweety "Talk to the Foot" t-shirt and the Betty Boop "Girls Kick Butt" t-shirt, which are just plain fun to wear.


Lorrie


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MartialArtsChic _
> *. . .
> if someone saw me wearing that shirt and they had ideas about touching me (Lord knows enough people stare at them), then maybe they would think twice.
> . . .
> Lorrie *



A friend of mine had a t-shirt made.

"The Twins are tired and not talking right now.
But I am"

:asian:


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## MartialArtsChic (Nov 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *A friend of mine had a t-shirt made.
> 
> "The Twins are tired and not talking right now.
> ...



:rofl:  - that's a good one.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MartialArtsChic _
> *:rofl:  - that's a good one. *



She did not trade mark it or anything, so feel free to use the line or make your own 
shirt(s)

 :asian:


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## TheRustyOne (Nov 29, 2003)

I just realized I already posted in this once! Oops! My bad memory!


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