# The B@stard Child of Wing Chun



## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Forgive me if the title is a little crude, but it describes my situation.

I wanted to run this by those of you who have been certified as Sifus in Wing Chun and see what you think.

I started training in Wing Chun in 1995. I had a falling out with the teacher, and I don't believe the wounds from that can ever be healed. He teaches in the Ip Ching lineage.

I knew there was another teacher in my area who was from a different lineage (Leung Sheung). While I knew lineage hopping is frowned upon in Wing Chun, I had a choice: either switch horses, or give up Wing Chun. I could not do the latter, so I reached out to Sifu London. Fortunately, he accepted me as a student.

I should say that I fell in love with the style from my first lesson. About a year in, I had decided I wanted to be certified as a Sifu myself someday and run my own school. The falling out with the previous Sifu threw a monkey wrench into those plans.

Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage. So I was like, "Okay...damn, now what?" This is why I call myself the b@stard child of Wing Chun. I will be DAMNED if I am going to go back to the first school, but I already know I will never be endorsed by the current one.

So long story short, the question is: NOW what do I do? Seek a THIRD lineage to endorse me? I mean, I don't think that would be feasible. For a moment I thought to myself, "Well, martial arts schools are not regulated in any sort of way. If I knew the whole system well and wanted to teach, theoretically I could open my own school even WITHOUT the endorsement/certification/what have you." But I dismissed that idea as quickly as I had it because it seemed dishonorable to me.

At any rate, I am interested to hear any thoughts on this.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage


What was the reason behind this statement? Was it because you started in a different lineage? Was it because he dislikes something about your current training or attitude?

I find this pretty bizarre. The only reason I would ever tell someone that I would never certify them as a teacher is if they had some moral defect which would also cause me to not teach them or associate with them in the first place.


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## Yuen Kay Jun (May 1, 2017)

100,

Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!!  Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.

So, I would like to ask 2 open ended questions -

What was the falling out with the First?  What, Why, How?

Second, why wouldn't the second consider the future possibility of working you to Sifu level?

Feel free to private message me, if you like.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

What Tony said.  But also, in the end, as long as you don't misrepresent yourself to anyone, why not open an unaffiliated school?  I don't understand how that could be dishonorable.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Steve said:


> What Tony said.  But also, in the end, as long as you don't misrepresent yourself to anyone, why not open an unaffiliated school?  I don't understand how that could be dishonorable.


 
You're right. I guess as long as I am not calling myself "Sifu" when I am not certified as one, there would be no issue. Maybe some people who DO have certification might try to discredit me...but then again, would that even slow down the average lay person who wants to study? By that I mean most people who are looking to study an art don't care about lineage disputes.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> What was the reason behind this statement? Was it because you started in a different lineage? Was it because he dislikes something about your current training or attitude?
> 
> I find this pretty bizarre. The only reason I would ever tell someone that I would never certify them as a teacher is if they had some moral defect which would also cause me to not teach them or associate with them in the first place.


 
I am not sure if it was about the different lineages. I mean, if that were the case, then I would think he would have said I could not train there, period.

As for my current training/attitude, I am not sure of that either because he has told me I strive for perfection like him, which makes me a joy to teach.

Honestly, on the day he said it, I was fresh off a big argument with my girlfriend. I thought to ask him for clarification, but then I was like, "You know what? I am already bummed enough. I am not in the right head space to hear his answer." LOL

The good news is, I can always revisit that conversation.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> You're right. I guess as long as I am not calling myself "Sifu" when I am not certified as one, there would be no issue. Maybe some people who DO have certification might try to discredit me...but then again, would that even slow down the average lay person who wants to study? By that I mean most people who are looking to study an art don't care about lineage disputes.


You're free to call yourself sifu, just don't claim you were given that title by your own sifu


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Yuen Kay Jun said:


> 100,
> 
> Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!!  Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.
> 
> ...


 
Yuen,

I wrote a thread somewhere else on MA Talk where I described the falling out. I will find it and send it via PM.

As for why he would not consider it, I answer that in my reply to Tony. To sum up: I did not ask for clarification. I plan on it at some point. I just have to be ready to accept whatever the answer is.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> You're free top call yourself sifu, just don't claim you were given that title


 
I see your distinction.

And I raise you a dissimilarity.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Yuen Kay Jun said:


> 100,
> 
> Sorry to hear that you had a falling out with your first Sifu...... SUCKS!!!!  Not uncommon, but a little unusual imo.
> 
> ...


 
Private message sent.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Honestly, on the day he said it, I was fresh off a big argument with my girlfriend. I thought to ask him for clarification, but then I was like, "You know what? I am already bummed enough. I am not in the right head space to hear his answer." LOL
> 
> The good news is, I can always revisit that conversation.


I would recommend talking to him again and asking for clarification. Maybe you misunderstood him. Maybe he was fresh off of a big argument with *his* girlfriend and was saying things he didn't mean. Even if he really did mean it, you deserve to know the reason why.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I would recommend talking to him again and asking for clarification. Maybe you misunderstood him. Maybe he was fresh off of a big argument with *his* girlfriend and was saying things he didn't mean. Even if he really did mean it, you deserve to know the reason why.


 
You're right. I have been thinking about it (obviously), and I am overdue to revisit the topic. I think I could handle the answer now.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2017)

Is this the same sifu who allows people to call people the n-word? And now he's telling you that you can't teach because of an argument you had with a sifu from over 20 years ago? But you're the one who would be doing something dishonorable by teaching/opening a school?

I just want to make sure that I understand everything correctly...


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## hoshin1600 (May 1, 2017)

i have a faint memory of your prior post.  i dont know how your system ranks people but i would stay untill i was experienced enough to teach then i would ask again about certification and if the guy says no. then i would part ways and OPEN MY OWN SCHOOL RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.   
you seem to either be a bad apple or have really bad luck picking teachers.  personally i would give up on these guys and go for something totally different.  there is no reason for a teacher to be a "little brown ring".  unless your one of those guys who is annoying and keeps pestering about the same thing over and over and he just said it to shut you up.


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## Headhunter (May 1, 2017)

Quite honestly who cares if he endorses you. He can't physically stop you doing anything. Anyone can start a club if they want to...hell my 5 year old nephew could start one if he truly wanted to. That's what I've always hated about traditional martial arts all this political stuff. We all just want to train why does all this bs have to exist


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## drop bear (May 1, 2017)

who is the Leung Sheung guy you are training with? can he endorse you?


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## wckf92 (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> .....I guess as long as I am not calling myself "Sifu"....



You don't call yourself sifu, others ie students do that. Or maybe I've misunderstood your post.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

Isn't "sifu" just a polite term for a guy who teaches kung fu, similar to "coach" in BJJ or "sensei" in karate?


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## Danny T (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> --  I started training in Wing Chun in 1995. I had a falling out with the teacher, and I don't believe the wounds from that can ever be healed.
> 
> --  ...so I reached out to Sifu London. Fortunately, he accepted me as a student.
> 
> --  Then in a conversation from a few months back, my current Sifu told me that he would never endorse me as a Sifu in this lineage.



I really don't believe in the "certified" sifu thing. 
A sifu is a person who is the head of the school and that is all. One can be certified by some one or some organization to instruct but that doesn't make you a sifu. Being the head of the school makes you a sifu. Open a school, be the head of the school and you are the sifu.


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## Xue Sheng (May 1, 2017)

drop bear said:


> who is the Leung Sheung guy you are training with? can he endorse you?



He does not train with Leung Sheung, he trains in a Leung Sheng lineage, which also comes from Ip Man. Leung Sheung passed away in 1978

Leung Sheung - Wikipedia


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

We are missing some key information.


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## JP3 (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> The good news is, I can always revisit that conversation.


Bingo.... do that. You need more data. Maybe he was going somewhere with the comment, as in "I can never endorse you" and then he got distracted. It could happen. Perhaps the sentence was sinmply not completed because there was an outside event, or he remembered something, or whatever. Shoot, a hot girl may have just walked by in shorts, who knows.

If you do not pursue the conversation and inquire, you won't know, and then you'll be stuck.

But, if he was just incomplete, and it was like, "I cannot endorse you... as long as you continue to wear blue laces in your tennis shoes." Well, you could fix something like that. Intentionally dumb example used for the example's sake btw.


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## CB Jones (May 1, 2017)

Start your own....Wicked Chun.  (Probably would be a big hit in the New England area.)


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Is this the same sifu who allows people to call people the n-word? And now he's telling you that you can't teach because of an argument you had with a sifu from over 20 years ago? But you're the one who would be doing something dishonorable by teaching/opening a school?
> 
> I just want to make sure that I understand everything correctly...



"Allows" people? These are all grown adults. While he has the ability to tell them using that word isn't acceptable, he has no power to stop them. The setting where that word was used was not in a "school," and the guy who used it is not his student. This is an informal gathering of a handful of WC practitioners who all learned from the same guy, and who get together to practice chi sao.

As I said in my response to Tony, I don't know why he said he could not endorse me. I did not pursue an answer at the time.

Last but not least, the dishonorable part would be deceiving people into thinking I am something I'm not...kind of like how there are so many people out there rampantly calling themselves Wing Chun "Grandmasters."


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## CB Jones (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> "Allows" people? These are all grown adults. While he has the ability to tell them using that word isn't acceptable, he has no power to stop them. The setting where that word was used was not in a "school," and the guy who used it is not his student. This is an informal gathering of a handful of WC practitioners who all learned from the same guy, and who get together to practice chi sao.
> 
> As I said in my response to Tony, I don't know why he said he could not endorse me. I did not pursue an answer at the time.
> 
> Last but not least, the dishonorable part would be deceiving people into thinking I am something I'm not...kind of like how there are so many people out there rampantly calling themselves Wing Chun "Grandmasters."



I had an old high ranking Blackbelt tell me once...Typically those that refer to themselves as Grand Master are usually neither grand nor a master.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> "Allows" people? These are all grown adults. While he has the ability to tell them using that word isn't acceptable, he has no power to stop them. The setting where that word was used was not in a "school," and the guy who used it is not his student. This is an informal gathering of a handful of WC practitioners who all learned from the same guy, and who get together to practice chi sao.
> 
> As I said in my response to Tony, I don't know why he said he could not endorse me. I did not pursue an answer at the time.
> 
> Last but not least, the dishonorable part would be deceiving people into thinking I am something I'm not...kind of like how there are so many people out there rampantly calling themselves Wing Chun "Grandmasters."


Oh, I remember that, now.   That might have been it.


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## Xue Sheng (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> As I said in my response to Tony, I don't know why he said he could not endorse me. I did not pursue an answer at the time.



It is possible he cannot since his teacher is still showing up in the area from time to time



wingchun100 said:


> Last but not least, the dishonorable part would be deceiving people into thinking I am something I'm not...kind of like how there are so many people out there rampantly calling themselves Wing Chun "Grandmasters."



There are no Grandmasters in China


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2017)

So before I respond to this, I want to clarify that I wasn't attacking you with that post. I'm not sure if it read that way, but you seem to have gotten a bit defensive, so I wanted to make that clear. I'm also not attacking with this reply either.



wingchun100 said:


> "Allows" people? These are all grown adults. While he has the ability to tell them using that word isn't acceptable, he has no power to stop them. The setting where that word was used was not in a "school," and the guy who used it is not his student. This is an informal gathering of a handful of WC practitioners who all learned from the same guy, and who get together to practice chi sao.



If I remember right, and it's been a while so I very well may not have, but that guy was the acting instructor at the time. And it was in his dojo. In which case, he has every right to tell them what is or isn't acceptable, along with the ability to stop them.



> As I said in my response to Tony, I don't know why he said he could not endorse me. I did not pursue an answer at the time.



Fair enough. From your original post, it sounds implied that you're not endorsed because you left the first guy.



> Last but not least, the dishonorable part would be deceiving people into thinking I am something I'm not...kind of like how there are so many people out there rampantly calling themselves Wing Chun "Grandmasters."



You wouldn't be deceiving anyone. I wasn't being semantic with my first post about saying you can call yourself a sifu, just not endorsed by that particular guy. You would be a teacher, teaching a specific lineage, which is all you would be claiming.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> So before I respond to this, I want to clarify that I wasn't attacking you with that post. I'm not sure if it read that way, but you seem to have gotten a bit defensive, so I wanted to make that clear. I'm also not attacking with this reply either.
> 
> 
> 
> If I remember right, and it's been a while so I very well may not have, but that guy was the acting instructor at the time. And it was in his dojo. In which case, he has every right to tell them what is or isn't acceptable, along with the ability to stop them.



I did not mean to come off that way. I just wanted to make it clear: no, the gentleman that I call Sifu is not the instructor over the other two guys, and this was not in his school. It was an informal gathering on a college campus. Given the different scenario, that is why I cut him a little slack on the issue.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2017)

Steve said:


> We are missing some key information.


This comment reminded me of a trait of his posts that I forgot. There always seems to be something missing and we spend the rest of the time trying to figure out what the missing info is. In this case it's why he wasn't endorsed (especially since he's already teaching for him), the reason he fell out with his first sifu, and how long he has been training with the new sifu.

@wingchun100: I know you can't yet tell us why he's not endorsing you, but the other information would definitely fill in some gaps.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 1, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I did not mean to come off that way. I just wanted to make it clear: no, the gentleman that I call Sifu is not the instructor over the other two guys, and this was not in his school. It was an informal gathering on a college campus. Given the different scenario, that is why I cut him a little slack on the issue.


Okay, that was me misremembering then. In that case I agree, he doesn't really have any say over what they do or don't say.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> This comment reminded me of a trait of his posts that I forgot. There always seems to be something missing and we spend the rest of the time trying to figure out what the missing info is. In this case it's why he wasn't endorsed (especially since he's already teaching for him), the reason he fell out with his first sifu, and how long he has been training with the new sifu.
> 
> @wingchun100: I know you can't yet tell us why he's not endorsing you, but the other information would definitely fill in some gaps.



I detailed the falling out in another thread, on another section of this site.

Also, make no mistakes about it: I have not been training with the new Sifu that long, and it's not that I expect to be endorsed in some ridiculously fast amount of time. However, when I first met him, I explained to him that I would like to be able to teach the style someday myself. I mentioned it to him just that first time we met, so no...I am not one of those people who keeps pestering someone about the same thing over and over.


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## ShortBridge (May 1, 2017)

You need to get clarification on the recent comment and I suggest that you consider working through it with him part of your training.

In answer to your question, though. I personally call myself "Sifu" and don't like it when people do refer to themselves that way. Students call their teachers sifu in TMA. I didn't even tell my students to, they just figured it out in time. Point being, that if you were teaching people, they could choose to call you sifu and no one would ha e anything to say about it.

There is not license required to teach martial arts in the US. Literally anyone who someone is willing to learn from is free to do it. What you can't/should do is claim either lineage if they have not expressly granted that privilage. Depending on the lineage, that could get you a visit.

If I may ask, why is it important to you to teach?


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2017)

Coming from an organization where instructorship is earned at a specific rank, I can understand the reluctance to step up and teach without the traditional certification. However, that kind of certification is rare in the wider world of martial arts. Nobody certifies a boxing coach as ready to be called "coach" (they may need a license from a boxing commission at a certain level, but that's a different thing).

Do find out why your current instructor made that comment. If there's some logic to it, it's either something that can be remedied, or something you can respect, but disagree with. Keep working on your plans to teach. I know from some of our PM discussions that your have enough humility to not over-reach your ability by any more than most of us.


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## drop bear (May 1, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> He does not train with Leung Sheung, he trains in a Leung Sheng lineage, which also comes from Ip Man. Leung Sheung passed away in 1978
> 
> Leung Sheung - Wikipedia



He learned the leung sheung system linage off someone. I assume that is the linage he wants to teach. 

Who is the Leung sheung guy he learned from and why does he not get an endorsement from that guy. 

Not leung sheung himself


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2017)

drop bear said:


> He learned the leung sheung system linage off someone. I assume that is the linage he wants to teach.
> 
> Who is the Leung sheung guy he learned from and why does he not get an endorsement from that guy.
> 
> Not leung sheung himself


That's the second instructor - the one who said he wouldn't endorse him. Unless I'm confused.


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## drop bear (May 1, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's the second instructor - the one who said he wouldn't endorse him. Unless I'm confused.



See.  I thought the first instructor wouldn't endorse him because he went to the second.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

I'm gonna connect some dots from several threads and suggest that there might be a loyalty/trust issue involved.   Just call it an intuitive leap.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 1, 2017)

drop bear said:


> See.  I thought the first instructor wouldn't endorse him because he went to the second.


I don't think he's in contact with the first instructor any more. The comment was by the second instructor, whom he had told (when he started training with him) that he'd some day like to teach.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's the second instructor - the one who said he wouldn't endorse him. Unless I'm confused.



You are right. It was the second instructor. I don't talk to the first one anymore.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

ShortBridge said:


> You need to get clarification on the recent comment and I suggest that you consider working through it with him part of your training.
> 
> In answer to your question, though. I personally call myself "Sifu" and don't like it when people do refer to themselves that way. Students call their teachers sifu in TMA. I didn't even tell my students to, they just figured it out in time. Point being, that if you were teaching people, they could choose to call you sifu and no one would ha e anything to say about it.
> 
> ...



Wing Chun has had a tremendous impact on my life. Very early on, it dawned on me that I wanted to help spread the word about it. Also, I get incredible joy from teaching. There were several occasions at the first school where the teacher would introduce me to a new student and ask me to work with them while he tended to other students. He would tell me to help them out with whatever part of the form or whatever technique they were struggling with. I would give them tips on how to improve.

Sometimes, but not always, what I said would cause a revelation. I could see the lightbulb turn on, could see a spark in their eyes as something CLICKED. I can't explain why that is so thrilling to me, but it is.


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## wingchun100 (May 1, 2017)

Steve said:


> I'm gonna connect some dots from several threads and suggest that there might be a loyalty/trust issue involved.   Just call it an intuitive leap.



You are probably right. That has crossed my mind. 

Then again, I am assuming that what you meant is Leung Sheung Sifu has a trust issue regarding ME. 

I can understand it. Like I said, lineage hopping is heavily frowned upon. But I had to make a choice: wear the "scarlet letter," or drop Wing Chun from my life. And I could not do the latter.


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## Steve (May 1, 2017)

I'm wondering about your relationship with the new sifu.   I don't know, but you do some things that are bad juju sometimes.


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## anerlich (May 2, 2017)

This is nineteenth century thinking. Avoiding lineage hopping in modern times when both students and instructors often change jobs and locations frequently.

I've been a "Sifu" on paper for 22 years and teaching WC and Jiu Jitsu regularly for about 25. A paper "master" for about six years, FWIW. I've never particularly wanted to open my own academy as I have been able to make better money with another career I enjoyed. 

In my experience people wanted me to teach more, not less, often than I really wanted, even before I was a "qualified Sifu" or BJJ black belt.

I'm curious why this isn't the case with you, and can't help thinking, like others, that there is more to this than what you are telling. I am insufficiently interested to search through other threads to determine what that might be. I've met few decent instructors who would throttle a student's ambitions in the way you describe unless they had legitimate concerns about their character.

A title or a black belt doesn't give you magical powers or access to adulation, or financial or romantic success. I prefer to be addressed by my name, not some dumbass title.

You don't need a gatekeeper to give you the nod. If you can find one or more students, teach them. If it gets weird, ask for forgiveness, not permission.


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## anerlich (May 2, 2017)

Double post


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## KPM (May 2, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Like I said, lineage hopping is heavily frowned upon. But I had to make a choice: wear the "scarlet letter," or drop Wing Chun from my life. And I could not do the latter.



This is the part I don't understand.  This isn't China.   I've moved through 3 different lineages of Wing Chun and no one ever seemed to hold that against me.  In fact, it was an advantage.  Knowing that I already had a background in Wing Chun, the new teacher when I moved to a new lineage "stepped things up" based upon that and I didn't have to start from scratch.  So this "lineage hopping is frowned upon" is an archaic attitude and I would really take a hard look at the teacher telling you this.  People like that start to sound "cultish" and act very controlling at some point.  You might not want to be part of something like that!


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## KPM (May 2, 2017)

Double post.  The forum seems to have an "echo" again.


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## Xue Sheng (May 2, 2017)

drop bear said:


> He learned the leung sheung system linage off someone. I assume that is the linage he wants to teach.
> 
> Who is the Leung sheung guy he learned from and why does he not get an endorsement from that guy.
> 
> Not leung sheung himself



He likely has not trained much, if at all, with that guy. He is in the area only on rare occasion these days. The gentleman he trains with has been told that he can teach by that person. And I believe at least 2 or 3 others of that group have as well.


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## Xue Sheng (May 2, 2017)

drop bear said:


> He learned the leung sheung system linage off someone. I assume that is the linage he wants to teach.
> 
> Who is the Leung sheung guy he learned from and why does he not get an endorsement from that guy.
> 
> Not leung sheung himself



He likely has not trained much, if at all, with that guy. He is in the area only on rare occasion these days. The gentleman he trains with has been told that he can teach by that person. And I believe at least 2 or 3 others of that group have as well.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 2, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Sometimes, but not always, what I said would cause a revelation. I could see the lightbulb turn on, could see a spark in their eyes as something CLICKED. I can't explain why that is so thrilling to me, but it is.


You don't have to explain. Those of us who teach, or have helped teach, have experienced that. It's one of my reasons for teaching anything.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 2, 2017)

KPM said:


> This is the part I don't understand.  This isn't China.   I've moved through 3 different lineages of Wing Chun and no one ever seemed to hold that against me.  In fact, it was an advantage.  Knowing that I already had a background in Wing Chun, the new teacher when I moved to a new lineage "stepped things up" based upon that and I didn't have to start from scratch.  So this "lineage hopping is frowned upon" is an archaic attitude and I would really take a hard look at the teacher telling you this.  People like that start to sound "cultish" and act very controlling at some point.  You might not want to be part of something like that!


I wonder aloud whether this concept is a holdover from Steve's original instructor. Perhaps he is projecting it upon his new instructor. If that's the case, it might send some weird signals.

Just a thought, Steve. I know only what I've heard from you, and that will (of course) be colored by your perception of the situation. Perhaps when you have that talk with your current sifu, you might ask his attitude about you having changed lineage. I know some instructors who have an odd attitude about people who change arts, change styles within an art, etc. They are a distinct minority, but they do exist, even where I wouldn't expect them.


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## Xue Sheng (May 2, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I wonder aloud whether this concept is a holdover from Steve's original instructor. Perhaps he is projecting it upon his new instructor. If that's the case, it might send some weird signals.
> 
> Just a thought, Steve. I know only what I've heard from you, and that will (of course) be colored by your perception of the situation. Perhaps when you have that talk with your current sifu, you might ask his attitude about you having changed lineage. I know some instructors who have an odd attitude about people who change arts, change styles within an art, etc. They are a distinct minority, but they do exist, even where I wouldn't expect them.



I'm not Steve, but I know his current Shifu and he changed lineages. Started with Fong moved and switched to Ling. Both are in the Ip Man Lineage, but from different teachers


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> I'm not Steve, but I know his current Shifu and he changed lineages. Started with Fong moved and switched to Ling. Both are in the Ip Man Lineage, but from different teachers


 
That's right, and I completely forgot about that. I don't believe his objection would come from a lineage hop. So there has to be something else.

He is back in town soon. I plan on asking.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 3, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> So there has to be something else


There is an ancient prophecy that a sifu named Steve will bring about a thousand year reign of death and destruction. Not saying that's you, necessarily, but he's just playing it safe.


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## DanT (May 3, 2017)

I think if you have the experience you should just teach. It's not your fault your Sifu randomly says you can't after you worked your butt off. If you feel like you've earned the title sifu, then you're a Sifu and no one can say otherwise. Obviously it would be great if you had your Sifu's approval, but it's not absolutely essential. Let your skill be your certificate.


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

DanT said:


> I think if you have the experience you should just teach. It's not your fault your Sifu randomly says you can't after you worked your butt off. If you feel like you've earned the title sifu, then you're a Sifu and no one can say otherwise. Obviously it would be great if you had your Sifu's approval, but it's not absolutely essential. Let your skill be your certificate.


 
Right. Actually, the Sifu denying me the endorsement said the same thing. But wouldn't you know my luck? I advertised for lessons once, and the FIRST GUY who contacts me says, "What's your lineage? Why don't you train with YOUR teacher anymore? When did you get certified?" Etc.

And I know the advice for situations like that: be honest. And I was. And it resulted in no further contact. LOL

Ah well. I will still forge ahead. I always do.


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> There is an ancient prophecy that a sifu named Steve will bring about a thousand year reign of death and destruction. Not saying that's you, necessarily, but he's just playing it safe.


 
I'm always the last to know these things.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 3, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> I'm always the last to know these things.


If you know about the prophecy then sometimes you bring it about while trying to avoid it. Sometimes it's just simpler to keep things secret.


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## Steve (May 3, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> There is an ancient prophecy that a sifu named Steve will bring about a thousand year reign of death and destruction. Not saying that's you, necessarily, but he's just playing it safe.


Thays actually me.   I'm going to start training wing chun just sonibcan do it.


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## wingerjim (May 3, 2017)

Danny T said:


> I really don't believe in the "certified" sifu thing.
> A sifu is a person who is the head of the school and that is all. One can be certified by some one or some organization to instruct but that doesn't make you a sifu. Being the head of the school makes you a sifu. Open a school, be the head of the school and you are the sifu.


I agree with Danny T. I do not run the school where I am both a teacher and student. My only teacher owns the school I attend and all but one other student learns from myself and this other student and neither of us are formally certified, but have been deemed teachers along with himself for the rest of our students. By the way, we too are in a Leung Sheung lineage.


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## Xue Sheng (May 3, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you know about the prophecy then sometimes you bring it about while trying to avoid it. Sometimes it's just simpler to keep things secret.



I see you're avoiding the whole "Sifu Tony is one of the signs of the apocalypse" bit of the prophecy"


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## Tony Dismukes (May 3, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> I see you're avoiding the whole "Sifu Tony is one of the signs of the apocalypse" bit of the prophecy"


I figure as long as I'm not teaching a CMA I'm in the clear. If my students address me by any title other than Tony, it's generally just "coach." No one ever heard of a _Coach_ Tony causing the apocalypse, that would just be silly.


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

That is why it would happen: no one expects it.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 3, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> That is why it would happen: no one expects it.


Expected or not, it would still be silly. I refuse to participate in any silly apocalypses.


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Expected or not, it would still be silly. I refuse to participate in any silly apocalypses.


 
Maybe you wouldn't, but the apocalypse might choose to participate in YOU. And then you're in deep s---.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 3, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Maybe you wouldn't, but the apocalypse might choose to participate in YOU. And then you're in deep s---.


It depends on whether the apocalypse has a rule against participating in silly Tonys.


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## wingchun100 (May 3, 2017)

Or silly rabbits

Because, you know...Trix are for kids.


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## ShortBridge (May 3, 2017)




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## Xue Sheng (May 3, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> It depends on whether the apocalypse has a rule against participating in silly Tonys.



Not to be confused with Apocalypto


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## wingchun100 (May 4, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not to be confused with Apocalypto


 
Wasn't that a Mel Gibson movie? I mean he directed, not starred in.


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## Xue Sheng (May 4, 2017)

wingchun100 said:


> Wasn't that a Mel Gibson movie? I mean he directed, not starred in.



yup


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