# Do you do FMA with another MA?



## geezer (Mar 18, 2010)

Whether or not you see your FMA as a "stand alone" or "add-on" martial art, many FMA practitioners do practice it along with another art. I personally am amazed at how well the FMA I practice blends with what else I do. And interestingly, the other guys in my group agree, even though the other arts we each practice are very different... sometimes almost opposite by themselves. FMA has become the bridge that ties us all together. How about the rest of you? Do you train other arts? How does your FMA relate to what else you do?


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## MJS (Mar 18, 2010)

geezer said:


> Whether or not you see your FMA as a "stand alone" or "add-on" martial art, many FMA practitioners do practice it along with another art. I personally am amazed at how well the FMA I practice blends with what else I do. And interestingly, the other guys in my group agree, even though the other arts we each practice are very different... sometimes almost opposite by themselves. FMA has become the bridge that ties us all together. How about the rest of you? Do you train other arts? How does your FMA relate to what else you do?


 
I do Kenpo in addition to Arnis, and hope soon, to resume training in BJJ.  Given the fact that all of these arts are mainly close range, its pretty easy to transition from one thing to the next.  There have been times when I've started a Kenpo tech., and finished off with a lock from Arnis.  

There are also a ton of nasty things you can add in from the other 2, while you're grappling.


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 18, 2010)

I do mostly Hapkido with some Tae Kwon Do background.  Also a strong mix in of BJJ for ground fighting and a touch of Muy Thai for certain techniques

Anyway, I just recently added "Kali" to the mix, as my instructor calls it (he uses "Kali" as an umbrella term with Arnis as mostly sticks and I think Escrima as mostly blades).  However, the Kali is pretty much only the weapons portions, I know there are full arts in there and I've seen a lot of overlap in some of the techniques, especially when it comes to disarms and takedowns, but we're not studying the full Arnis art, for example.

Note: My Kali instructor is not my Hapkido instructor. They are friends and they worked a deal to teach the Kali in the same dojang.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 18, 2010)

I find that the FMA's blend very well with just about anything.  Whether it is boxing, kickboxing, budo taijutsu, bjj, police defensive tactics, tae kwon do, etc., etc.  The key is the core footwork and movement in my opinion that all good FMA's have.  It translates easily to moving in another system.  When people come into IRT they are usually frustrated with the movement unless they have a FMA or Budo Taijutsu background.  Just my 02.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 18, 2010)

I have found that modern arnis has opened the door to applications of the principles of other arts.  Example: Tai Chi is great regarding its principle of yeilding.  It wasn't until I was taught a particular empty hand exercise by RP that opened the door to using that principle.  So, I haven't blended it with other arts, per se, but used the flow of it to open the door to apply concepts and principles from other arts.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## fangjian (Mar 18, 2010)

Balintawak + Muay Thai+ BJJ+Wushu =  INVINCIBLE!   I'm pretty much a T-800.   "Come with me if you want to live"​


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## geezer (Mar 18, 2010)

Dang, It's nice to see all the input. I'm on a mission to liven up this FMA sub-forum. Unfortunately I'm not much for posting videos... that's Brian's specialty I think (thanks), but whatever I can write, and whoever I can contact to get more people posting here... I'll do it! Help me out, y'all.

Now back on topic. The FMA I'm training right now is Martin Torres' "DTE" Eskrima, although my roots in Latosa PMAS Escrima always show. My "core" art is NVTO  Wing Chun and I find that Eskrima has really helped me. But other members of My group are boxers, MMA guys, Kenpoists ans so on. And, as I said above, they also feel that Eskrima has helped them. And yet as a 'Chunner, I don't move like any of these guys.

So it's really not about _technique_ at all. Not even footwork (although I have learned some useful stuff there).  It's all about core concepts. In Latosa Escrima, I was taught about integrating Power, Speed (distance and timeing) Focus, Transition and Balance... and Attitude or "mind-set" into whatever I did. DTE emphasises getting "an angle", "diamondpoint" (pinpoint redirection of energy) and "pressing forward" with your attack (even when you are apparently retreating). Both systems  also strongly stress simplicity, directness, and practicality. All of this harmonizes very well with Wing Chun. It also harmonizes with just about every other combat-effective martial art I know of.


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## Darrin Cook (Mar 20, 2010)

For me, Thai boxing is the unarmed component of my art.


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## James Kovacich (Jun 18, 2010)

Of course, but my focus now has been with my wifes uncle who with his instructor blended Inayan Serrada with Hawaiian Kenpo. They are both early Inay students and longtime Kenpo players. The simplification of 5 strikes (the 1st 4 strikes and #5 thrust), some basic blocks and hard core Kenpo and Ju Jitsu makes for a new twist in my life.


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## nerdette_007 (Jun 19, 2010)

I currently take Whitson's Counterpoint Tactical in addition to Doce Pares Eskrima...I've given serious thought to picking up Muay Thai eventually, as it's always interested me. Nice to see it mentioned in this particular thread.


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## free2flow (Jun 20, 2010)

fangjian said:


> Balintawak + Muay Thai+ BJJ+Wushu = INVINCIBLE! I'm pretty much a T-800. "Come with me if you want to live"​


 
been doing wing chun for 2 years now and i found out that it blends very well with balintawak.


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## James Kovacich (Jun 23, 2010)

Wing Chun, JKD and Kenpo all blend well with most FMA in general.


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## BigWilliam (Jul 2, 2010)

Good question. I had posted a similar comment a number of years ago on my blog in response to a thread on the DB forum years ago (if interested you find it here...  http://williamsmartialblog.blogspot.com/ ). Maybe I'll actually get back to posting there again some day when I have some time.

One thing I have discovered over the years, and Tuhon Gaje backed up with comments to me......is that no matter what system you study, the FMA's will smooth them out. In my opinion, many martial arts and students don't work footwork and the angles enough. what you end up with is a war of attrition...who can weather the most shots to get the job done. In the FMA's, we deal with weapons, and with weapons one can't afford to take a shot. You have to train to hit without being hit. To do that you have to really emphasize your footwork, body angling, and ability to be smooth and flow. Hallmarks of the FMA's. When some one from another art starts training and developing these attributes, they cross over and start showing up when they train in their original system. I currently have a long time Kempo instructor training with us and this is one of the first things he noticed as he started developing some skill.

That being said, I focus on FMA, Muay Thai (sport & "old style") and Krabi-Krabong. 


Touching on the cross-over from my blog link above....

I originally posted this on the Dog Brothers forum between 2002 & 2003.

_I havent been able to keep up with the list in the last 6  8 months but one of my students showed me a thread going on about Filipino and Thai Martial Arts. Please forgive me if I cover any points that have already been made on the subject.

In my curriculum I teach Pekiti-Tirsia Kali and Muay Thai. I teach them separately and do not intentionally blend them together. But, students who train in both systems soon discover that the systems can and do go well together. What results is a different but highly effective animal.

As Crafty pointed out, KK does integrate Thai kicks & close range elbows and knees with weaponry. Unknown to many practitioners of sport Muay Thai, and people from other MAs, the art of Muay Thai descends from the weaponry system of Krabi-Krabong. Similar to the Filipino Martial arts, Muay Thai is an open hand system of combat that is based off of weaponry technique. In my opinion, this is why they are able to blend so well together if you understand the systems.

What is important is not that you learn to kick while using weapons; its the emphasis on power generation from any angle. Kicks are used sparingly and strategically and are usually restricted to the low-line Thai round kicks and foot jabs. Anyone who has experienced Muay Thai either as a practitioner, or has been on the receiving end understands the raw power that is generated by the mechanics of the system at close and long range. Add to that the fluid foundation footwork of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali and the ability to flow with an armed or unarmed opponent and things start to get real interesting. Pekiti-Tirsia is a complete system (meaning covers all ranges), Muay Thai stands on its own as well. When the two start coming out together, you end up with fluid movement and timing combined with raw devastating power.


Guro William_


Best regards,
William


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## geezer (Jul 2, 2010)

To re-visit the OP, lately I have run into a bit of negativity or "pressure" on the part of some of the traditional, non-filipino martial artists I work with to _"dump the eskrima"_ if I really want to break through to a higher level in their art. Well, I listened, thought about it, and guess what?  _...Ain't gonna happen._ While it may be true that I will learn certain skills and sets of drills faster if I don't divide my time between that TMA and the FMA I train, on the other hand, I'm convinced that I am becoming a better all-round martial artist though my involvement in FMA as well as my other, "core art" ...if it really is the core... I'm not sure any more. If both arts are truly just two expressions of universal principals of combat, how is one more fundamental than the other? But I digress.

So how about the rest of you... anybody else felt pressure _not_ to cross train in the FMAs? How have you dealt with it?


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## BigWilliam (Jul 2, 2010)

geezer said:


> To re-visit the OP, lately I have run into a bit of negativity or "pressure" on the part of some of the traditional, non-filipino martial artists I work with to _"dump the eskrima"_ if I really want to break through to a higher level in their art.



I would argue that it could help you become better. That is, unless it's interfering in some way with the other system....but as I mentioned before, in my experience it should help you. Is it possible they just don't want you training in something else?




> Well, I listened, thought about it, and guess what?  _...Ain't gonna happen._ While it may be true that I will learn certain skills and sets of drills faster if I don't divide my time between that TMA and the FMA I train, on the other hand, I'm convinced that I am becoming a better all-round martial artist though my involvement in FMA as well as my other, "core art" ...if it really is the core... I'm not sure any more.



It think in a way you've discovered your answer. 



> If both arts are truly just two expressions of universal principals of combat, how is one more fundamental than the other? But I digress.



Well, different arts have different ways of approaching universal principles...some are better then others at realizing those goals.





> So how about the rest of you... anybody else felt pressure _not_ to cross train in the FMAs? How have you dealt with it?



I had a Wing Chun instructor early on who looked down on any sort of cross training, but I hadn't discovered the FMA's at that point. Basically he looked down on anything that wasn't Wing Chun.

I've been pretty lucky in that once I discovered the FMA's back in 89, all but one of my instructors since then were open and not threatened by working with others. The one who had the issue just didn't want me training in any other FMA's but his.


William


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## Danny T (Jul 3, 2010)

We have 3 specific training sessions for Pekiti-Tirsia weekly. However, I utilize a lot of pt in my wing chun and muay thai sessions for cross training. The strongest influence pekiti has is the understanding of "timing", "flow", "angles", and "range".


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## lhommedieu (Jul 9, 2010)

Hey Danny -

Nice to see you on the thread.  I was planning to attend Tuhon Bill's seminar this summer but have a schedule conflict for the week that I'm trying to resolve.  Just got a custom Ruger 10/22 from Clark Custom Guns - do you know them?  I had it out on the range yesterday and it's a tack driver.

Re. the question on the thread I've never had a issue training non-FMA's since all of my teachers have trained FMA's and non-FMA's.  As others have said, movement is movement.

Best,

Steve


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## Danny T (Jul 11, 2010)

Hey Steve,

Good to hear from you. Hope life is going well for you and your family my friend.

Yea, I pop up on the forum every now and then, opine or simply listen and fade away. Over the years the discussions remain much the same and I have tired of the ever present repeats. However, it is good to see the younger (in training time) discussing and learning.

I do plan on making Tuhon's camp but my plate is overfilled at present. I will be up in R. I. 20-27 and will attempt to make time to get over to visit Tuhon. I usually am able to visit for at least a day. I will be in the Middletown-Newport area, how far away are you?
Maybe we can visit for an hour or two.

Clark 10/22. You doing some competition or just wanting a Fantastic plinking tool? I have not had any work done by them but hear good things about them, "nice people with very good workmanship".

Movement is movement, hmm..., uhh, is it possible that so much seems to be the same because it is!?

Respectfully,

Danny


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## MANOS: THE HANDS OF FATE (Aug 28, 2010)

I have on occasion been caught using other techniques from other MA because I was sparring with someone that was equal/better than me and it left them flummoxed.  It was totally foreign/out of left field kinds of things that broke their concentration and allowed me to make positive contact.  

Is that cheating?  Don't know and don't care.  I'm not looking to become a grand master of anything...well, except for Texas hold em but that's for money.


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## chris arena (Sep 14, 2010)

I came into Modern Arnis with a little bit of Tai Chi that I was working on as a rehab from back & neck surgeries around 1994. While studying with Datu Worden, I noticed a lot of energy simularities that always kept a bit of the basic Tai Chi forms as sort of a "ruler" for movement. I was also introduced to Tacosa Serrada and after a few years practice I noticed the same connections in thier "split-stepping and dropping energy as an alternative to the typical angling stepping in Modern Arnis. Again, here was the connection. So, about 2 years ago, while still keeping my FMA skills in practice. I learned the Yang long form from Micheal Gilman up here in Port Townsend. (he has a great website under Micheal Gilman Tia Chi). He is one of the few players who has technical combat skill and has taught his art full time for almost 40 years. I have been purchasing his tapes and attending his monthly Saturday 3-4 hr classes in push hands and have lately entered a 7 month program to learn the two-man 88 movement fighting form from him with a few of my Arnis student/training partners. In fact we have now blocked  1 1/2 hrs weekly on one of our Arnis classes strickly for practice of this form for the first hour, then try to apply it in our Hubad / DeCadena free form practice.  The way these two styles seamlessly work together is spooky. We are dedicating the entire winter season on learning this form. Although we still consider ourselves FMA orientated and an off shoot of Datu Worden's NSI. In fact if you go on u-tube and type in tai chi san shou 88 movement fighting form you will see a few examples. -There is one done by the "Dojo-Rats" (two guys in street clothes playing out in a field),as they got it from Mr. Gilman about 2 years past.  If you are getting a bit older, you have no choice but to internalize your fighting styles as age and injuries force changes in your capabilities. But, trust me. That ain't necessarily a bad thng!


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## bribrius (Sep 15, 2010)

i started out in escrima back in gradeschool in the late eighties. Dropped it in highschool. Trained here and there with people i know that did other arts and people in the family. Yes, even someone allowed to instruct and higher belts. Pretty much kung fu mma/whaterver else. Nothing in depth. But didn't go back to formal classes. started in a little boxing as well. But never serious just some friendly sparring. wrestled in highschool as well.

so basically i crossed but know nothing in depth, and am basically non existant far as practicing any real art. Which is why when asked i basically say i know little to nothing. It isn't because i couldnt take down someone who has trained better i have done that. i honestly dont even know what i would be considered however. And it actually makes me somewhat lost on this forum as well.

i would be careful. Learn one really well perhaps and then cross into another. Otherwise you might end up becoming a hack. (like me!)Or if you cross train don't stop or fill your plate too much as you take away from progress in any particuliar. Many of the things i know, and have showed others i don't even know what they are, where they come from, what they are called. In fact in some cases i think i am telling people things contrary to what they should be learning. Right down to balance of weight. i always tell people to keep the weight on the back foot. So as in case someone sweeps the front you can react. 

Dont kick high because experienced fighters may see that as a op to step in and take you down. They get you off balance the fight is over. Don't hold your hands complete into a fist. It limits your ability to striking and is just a bad habit. Or holding your hands up for protection. I always keep one down. Perhaps something from the ratten sticks i never stopped doing so when i see someone with both fists up, weight evenly dispersed it sends of a warning bell in my head. lol But if they go to kick me or attack from that posture to me i see a easy opportunity. 
I think i am giving my daughter a complex though. she started taekwondo as i mentioned in another thread. Everytime i "pretend fight" with her and she goes to roundhouse or snap kick i show her how i can take her down.. Or more to the point i will just lay on the ground and tell her to attack me. "so what you going to do now?" Things i actually learned from a friend and cousin who made it into the black belts, one in taekwondo and i caught on from sparring with them. I probably should stop doing that. she needs the confidence and to learn taekwondo without doubting her instructors and what they are teaching. And to learn it well without confusion.. It is hard to just let her do things though because the red warnings go up when i watch her practice or "pretend fight" and my first instinct is to show her. I am waiting for her first competition to see how she does and what techniques she remembers or uses from taekwondo. Or what falls into place from the hack methods i have taught her. I kinda hope someone goes to kick her and dads teaching comes into play and she brings them down. I wont kid you. i know . i know......

course here is the problem if you DON'T cross train. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlleDPgmDVM&feature=related


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Nov 9, 2010)

My upbringing was TKD, Muay Thai and any dirty trick I could make work.

My core style is Combat/Aiki Jujutsu.

For the last 10 years I have known Prof. Dave Wink and have had varying levels of crosstraining under him in Pekiti Tarsia and Silat, the lat 4 being the most dedicated.

 It works great with jujutsu, gives us a much better footwork and entry methodology, better atemi (strikes) and of coarse weapon's training that carries over to multiple dedicated and improvissed weapons and empty hand.

 It's at the point in my study where it is now about bettering and perfecting the Jujutsu technique and principles that I have learned from my former Sensei and departed Sempai, whereas FMA is now my dedicated "Learner" art and spend the most of my solo training on.


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