# Combat KI



## German Coach

Hi Folks,

what do you think about this guys ? I have some experience with KI techniques and I know that with KI you can do things that are normally impossible. But I would never survive this: 





 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zJqBk8JD4Ho&mode=related&search=


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## Drac

I hear ya Coach..I watched a special they had on over here about Combat Ki..Taking a full punch in the throat is a little scary..


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## German Coach

Drac said:


> I hear ya Coach..I watched a special they had on over here about Combat Ki..Taking a full punch in the throat is a little scary..


 
In the newest James Bond movie it would have been helpful if he had such inner strength when they kicked him in his ........................


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## Drac

I've yet to see it...The Combat Ki special I mentioned show a "graduation" for a young female..She was blindfolded and randomly attacked and she wasn't allowed to fall...She passed..


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## bydand

Full punch in the throat is scary yes, but a full speed kick to the boys wouldn't thrill me much either.  I'd be the one crying in the corner trying to persuade the boys to come out of hiding somewhere behind my lungs.


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## Drac

bydand said:


> Full punch in the throat is scary yes, but a full speed kick to the boys wouldn't thrill me much either. I'd be the one crying in the corner trying to persuade the boys to come out of hiding somewhere behind my lungs.


 

You too???? LOL!!!!


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## Xue Sheng

Would it work or be at all useful if the attack was a complete surprise?

Just walking down the street and BANG someone hits you.

And I am with everyone here, the thought of a punch in the throat is not a pleasant one but as for the kick in the..... well.... um...


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## German Coach

Drac said:


> I've yet to see it...The Combat Ki special I mentioned show a "graduation" for a young female..She was blindfolded and randomly attacked and she wasn't allowed to fall...She passed..


 
Wow, I once saw a Japanese Shotokan Master (Osamu Aoki Shihan) who did that - fascinating.


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## MJS

I recall a Martial Arts show on tv a while back.  They were showcasing a bunch of different arts, and this group was part of it.  IMHO, I know nothing about the art they do, but anything where you have to take time to 'prepare' yourself, such as what they were doing, I have to wonder how legit it is.  And like the rest of you, I'm not too crazy about taking hits like they were doing.:btg:


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## German Coach

bydand said:


> Full punch in the throat is scary yes, but a full speed kick to the boys wouldn't thrill me much either. I'd be the one crying in the corner trying to persuade the boys to come out of hiding somewhere behind my lungs.


 
Seems your boys have a good Master !


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## German Coach

Xue Sheng said:


> Would it work or be at all useful if the attack was a complete surprise?


 
My Qi Gong teacher told me you can feel a threat a split second BEFORE. I would like to train that, but I just don´t have the time ;-)


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## Bigshadow

Xue Sheng said:


> Would it work or be at all useful if the attack was a complete surprise?
> 
> Just walking down the street and BANG someone hits you.
> 
> And I am with everyone here, the thought of a punch in the throat is not a pleasant one but as for the kick in the..... well.... um...



I wonder how well it works.  Say let them get prepared for you to punch them in the throat and then kick them in the fellas.   I wonder how well it works then. :rofl:


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## Xue Sheng

German Coach said:


> My Qi Gong teacher told me you can feel a threat a split second BEFORE. I would like to train that, but I just don´t have the time ;-)


 
I have trained a lot of Tai Chi and a lot of Qigong and you do get a feeling when things are close but it tends to end up working more like you know where to or how to move to avoid it not prepare you for a punch in the throat. But walking down a street and having someone surprise you and hit you in the throat, if you have no idea then I have my doubts. Besides these people are asked are you ready and given time to prepare so still I am not sure how useful it really is.


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## Drac

German Coach said:


> My Qi Gong teacher told me you can feel a threat a split second BEFORE


 
I think that early warning system works even for those of us with no Qi Gomg training..In the dozens of encounters that led to arrests I always seemed to know when the suspect/subject decided to fight instead of going peacefully..Maybe I'm just good at body language...


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## Xue Sheng

Drac said:


> I think that early warning system works even for those of us with no Qi Gomg training...


 
I agree with this completely


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## morph4me

bydand said:


> Full punch in the throat is scary yes, but a full speed kick to the boys wouldn't thrill me much either. I'd be the one crying in the corner trying to persuade the boys to come out of hiding somewhere behind my lungs.


 
You're much braver than I am, I would be home, with a beer, using my heightened skills of avoiding situations were the boys were going to be attacked.


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## German Coach

Xue Sheng said:


> I have trained a lot of Tai Chi and a lot of Qigong and you do get a feeling when things are close but it tends to end up working more like you know where to or how to move to avoid it not prepare you for a punch in the throat. But walking down a street and having someone surprise you and hit you in the throat, if you have no idea then I have my doubts. Besides these people are asked are you ready and given time to prepare so still I am not sure how useful it really is.


 
I agree. 

Another question is WHY should one learn this ? We are not living in middle ages anymore so that one always has to be prepared for an attack or survive attacks.


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## German Coach

Drac said:


> I think that early warning system works even for those of us with no Qi Gomg training..In the dozens of encounters that led to arrests I always seemed to know when the suspect/subject decided to fight instead of going peacefully..Maybe I'm just good at body language...


 
I guess your early warning system is very well trained not only because you are a Martial Artist but also because of your job.


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## Rook

Rod Sacharnoski, his system Juko-Kai, and its application "Combat-Ki" are all notorious frauds on the same level as Frank Dux, Ashida Kim and George Dillman.  All have been discussed at length on this website if you use the search function.


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## ppko

Rook said:


> Rod Sacharnoski, his system Juko-Kai, and its application "Combat-Ki" are all notorious frauds on the same level as Frank Dux, Ashida Kim and George Dillman. All have been discussed at length on this website if you use the search function.


I would watch using the term frauds especially when you have no idea of what you are talking about and that is obvious to me how many of the people you mentioned have you trained with personally just dont jump on the band wagon find out for yourself


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## Shotochem

I was always a firm believer in the "If you can't block it or avoid it, make sure you can take it school".

But......I have yet to see any footage of these guys doing anything other than taking a throat shot or having their nads smashed.:uhohh:


Sorry, I'm not into that particular fetish.:whip1:  :ultracool


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## Xue Sheng

Shotochem said:


> I was always a firm believer in the "If you can't block it or avoid it, make sure you can take it school".


 
I agree.


As to the other issue that has popped up, not related to Shotocem's post

I do not think these guys are frauds, I do believe they are taking the hit, I just do not see its usefulness and I suspect after years of training this you will end up with some fairly nasty health issues in later life. 

I can see things such as an external qigong but the real version of this takes years and years of training and from what I can see it has a lot to do with pain desensitization, therefore when hit by surprise it is not a big deal. But this type of training takes years and is generally started young. 

But to train to take a specific hit in the throat or groin like they do make little sense to me in actual application. You train in CMA styles like Xingyi and Yiquan (and I imagine others) to protect the throat by the stance you train but to stand tense and let someone hit you in the throat or groin just seems unreasonably dangerous to me. 

I knew a ex-gymnast/current biker (believe it or not) that did this stuff years ago (about 25 year ago actually) before these people showed up but he stopped because he started having some throat\trachea problems. As he said, "looks like I'll never be able to sing Opera"


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## masherdong

Uh, no thanks.  I like my jewels the way they are.  I also like to be able to breathe and eat.


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## SFC JeffJ

Shotochem said:


> I was always a firm believer in the "If you can't block it or avoid it, make sure you can take it school".
> 
> But......I have yet to see any footage of these guys doing anything other than taking a throat shot or having their nads smashed.:uhohh:
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not into that particular fetish.:whip1:  :ultracool


There is a Juko Ryu Jujutsu school near here.  Their Jujutsu isn't half bad.  They promote way above actual skill levels for Black Belt and above if you ask me.

I've seen many demonstrations of their "Combat Ki" and all of them, even the higher ranked ones involved involved preparing themselves for the blow.  As far as I can tell, it's an interesting exercise, which I want no part of, but has no real world applications.

Also, I want nothing to do with an org where the head of it claims to have been in Special Forces when he most definitely wasn't.

Jeff


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## Xue Sheng

JeffJ said:


> Also, I want nothing to do with an org where the head of it claims to have been in Special Forces when he most definitely wasn't.
> 
> Jeff


 
Now that IS interesting... I didn't know that.

me thinks I need to look into this a bit further now.


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## searcher

It would be a wonderful money-maker, but what happens when they do kick you in the boys and you were expecting to get it in the throat?   I know there has to be a trick, but I have not found out what it is yet.

JeffJ, I had not heard that he was claiming to have been in SpecOps.   That makes me tingle at the chance of putting him in his place.   I know that he claims to be one of the World Sokeship Council guys, even though he is not the head of a Japanese family.   But it seems like everyone is these days.   LMK if anybody finds more info on their claims or if they are going to be in the Midwest doing a demo.   I may have to go and watch.


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## Tez3

Just a small aside here for those interested in human behaviour, have you noticed that when a gentleman gets kicked,hit etc in his parts all the men gasp but all the women giggle? Sorry chaps, we know it hurts like hell but we still can't help finding it funny!


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## bydand

Tez3 said:


> Just a small aside here for those interested in human behaviour, have you noticed that when a gentleman gets kicked,hit etc in his parts all the men gasp but all the women giggle? Sorry chaps, we know it hurts like hell but we still can't help finding it funny!



That's because you women are evil; Evil I say! :lfao:


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## Drac

ppko said:


> I would watch using the term frauds especially when you have no idea of what you are talking about


 
I must agree..Fraud is a pretty strong word..Have you trained with any of them one-on-one???


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## Drac

bydand said:


> That's because you women are evil; Evil I say! :lfao:


 
Pure Evil....LOL


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## elder999

Tez3 said:


> Just a small aside here for those interested in human behaviour, have you noticed that when a gentleman gets kicked,hit etc in his parts all the men gasp but all the women giggle? Sorry chaps, we know it hurts like hell but we still can't help finding it funny!


 
Perhaps you should have a look at  *this thread*. :lol: 


...and Rod Suchanutzki is the infamous _fraud_ who lies about his military career and his martial arts experience. He's the one of the infamous "Japanese" certificate that read "whorehouse martial way" when translated. He sued a rather well known judoka from Ohio for saying as much, and the end result of the suit was that the judoka was right. As for the kicks to the nads and blows to the throat, while I'm certain they're doing something, I'm not so sure about the medical ramifications-that woman that passed on the TV special was definitely knocked out, and they didn't seem to be as aware of that as I'd have liked, under the circumstances.....


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## German Coach

Drac said:


> I must agree..Fraud is a pretty strong word..Have you trained with any of them one-on-one???


 
Since I met a KI Master (Osamu Aoki Shihan who is the JKA National Shotokan Karate Coach of Spain) personally in 1998 I was sure that this KI stuff is nonense. 

Even my wife, who is a natural scientist, was convinced that there is "something" -  perhaps an unexplored kind of energy.

So I agree that one should train with a KI Master one-on-one to have a opinion.


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## German Coach

elder999 said:


> Perhaps you should have a look at *this thread*. :lol:
> 
> ..


 
Hi elder999, are you in the men´s movenemt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Farrell)

I am in a German men organisation.

GC


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## Tez3

elder999 said:


> Perhaps you should have a look at *this thread*. :lol:
> 
> 
> ...and Rod Suchanutzki is the infamous _fraud_ who lies about his military career and his martial arts experience. He's the one of the infamous "Japanese" certificate that read "whorehouse martial way" when translated. He sued a rather well known judoka from Ohio for saying as much, and the end result of the suit was that the judoka was right. As for the kicks to the nads and blows to the throat, while I'm certain they're doing something, I'm not so sure about the medical ramifications-that woman that passed on the TV special was definitely knocked out, and they didn't seem to be as aware of that as I'd have liked, under the circumstances.....


 
That thread is a big ouch! Luckily the men of my aquantaince are still very male! ( and gentlemen!). That certificate reminds me of the dangers of tattoos in languages you don't understand though I admit I love the idea of 'whorehouse martial arts"!


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## Drac

German Coach said:


> Even my wife, who is a natural scientist, was convinced that there is "something" - perhaps an unexplored kind of energy.So I agree that one should train with a KI Master one-on-one to have a opinion.


 
We are of the same mindset..I recently trained with GM George Dillman despite all the cries of FAKE and FRAUD that I've heard one of the techniques that I was the Uke for numbed my arm..Something not easily done to me...


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## ppko

Drac said:


> I must agree..Fraud is a pretty strong word..Have you trained with any of them one-on-one???


Yes I have George Dillman while I havent trained with the others I would check them out if I ever got the chance to form my own oppinion


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## elder999

JeffJ said:


> Also, I want nothing to do with an org where the head of it claims to have been in Special Forces when he most definitely wasn't.
> 
> Jeff


 
See:here

And have a look  here. 

THen do a search here on Martial Talk for him.......I don't know about Combat Ki, or how useful it is even if it is 100% on the level, but the man and his organization are bad, bad, bad......


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## bushi jon

Listen I have trained with these guys on and off for 8-10 yrs here South Bend most are a good group of guys and I have been able to hit them very very hard. They train with all out punches. I am not a member of Juko Kai the people that I know in it are pretty good martial artist. I have also been hit by thier Leader he hits like a freight train I was soar for weeks. I have trained in iron palm and have conditioned my body so. Not all of there dojo do the combat kai thing I would incourage you folks to check it out.


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## Grenadier

*Moderator's note:*

Thread moved to Horror Stories

Ronald Shin
Martialtalk.com Moderator


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## Infinite

Drac said:


> I think that early warning system works even for those of us with no Qi Gomg training..In the dozens of encounters that led to arrests I always seemed to know when the suspect/subject decided to fight instead of going peacefully..Maybe I'm just good at body language...



One of the first things that inspired me by Bruce Lee was his talk of complete body language. He states that it is possible for a person to register the body language of an attacker and respond before your conscience mind engages.

The moment before the moment.

Oddly enough this was in last months Black Belt (or is it this months)


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## Cryozombie

Bigshadow said:


> I wonder how well it works.  Say let them get prepared for you to punch them in the throat and then kick them in the fellas.   I wonder how well it works then. :rofl:



Actually I understand that kind of thing the best way to beat these "tricks." 

By the By, I won't call em FRAUDS... but they were falsely claiming what they were teaching was Bujinkan.  Might still be for all I know.


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## SFC JeffJ

bushi jon said:


> Listen I have trained with these guys on and off for 8-10 yrs here South Bend most are a good group of guys and I have been able to hit them very very hard. They train with all out punches. I am not a member of Juko Kai the people that I know in it are pretty good martial artist. I have also been hit by thier Leader he hits like a freight train I was soar for weeks. I have trained in iron palm and have conditioned my body so. Not all of there dojo do the combat kai thing I would incourage you folks to check it out.


Jon, you are absolutely right.  The head guy in South Bend does hit like a freight train, and is a pretty good jujitsu practioner.  He has some really good and respectful students as well. I think his rank is a bit on the inflated side, but that really isn't his fault.  Nice guy and fun to work out with, I just don't want any of my money to get to the head of the Juko-Kai.

Jeff


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## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618;

German Coach said:


> My Qi Gong teacher told me you can feel a threat a split second BEFORE. I would like to train that, but I just don´t have the time ;-)


 

lol


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## German Coach

chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618;;694967 said:
			
		

> lol


 
well.....at your age......


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## Brian R. VanCise

Drac said:


> I think that early warning system works even for those of us with no Qi Gomg training..In the dozens of encounters that led to arrests I always seemed to know when the suspect/subject decided to fight instead of going peacefully..Maybe I'm just good at body language...


 
Yep you can just feel when that is going to happen.  That has always been the case when I have had to arrest someone as well.  

The big issue people have with Juko Kai is the leader of their organization.  I am sure that they have some very nice people within their group and some good martial artists.  However it is the claims that are hard to swallow at times.


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## jks9199

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Yep you can just feel when that is going to happen.  That has always been the case when I have had to arrest someone as well.
> 
> The big issue people have with Juko Kai is the leader of their organization.  I am sure that they have some very nice people within their group and some good martial artists.  However it is the claims that are hard to swallow at times.


I agree; there are times when the combination of practice, experience, and alertness add up to "knowing" something will happen.  And I definitely believe that you can feel intention and emotions radiating from others; I think everyone's been in a room somewhere and had it light up when someone very happy walked in, for example.

My issue with Juko Kai is a simple one... Why?  I don't see how their testing process shows me a USEFUL skill, and it seems to me a recipe for a disaster.  I think a statement someone once made to me (many, many years ago) about the Society for Creative Anachronisms is pretty fitting... "No one has been rude enough to die during one of their events...  yet."  (No, I don't know if it's true, and I am not making any personal comments on SCA.)

On top of that -- I just wonder why so many people seem to feel the need to reinvent the wheel, name it after themselves, and shove things together in their own way...


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## thetruth

I would like someone to sneak up behind one of these guys before class and kick them in the nuts from behind and see if their onion bag is all chied up.  I'm doubting it.   I'm sure they have some good stuff but this chi type biz is just a dog n pony show.  Dillman and his clowns did this stuff 20 years ago.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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