# So it begins.



## Kframe (Dec 7, 2013)

So its official I am a new student of Bujinkan.. Had my first official beginner class today.  We did the sanshin kata 3 times on each side and then we did a kicking drill. After that we did a step and check punch drill up and down the mat.   We finished the class with the basics of the Hanbo and I absolutely loved it.    My class was 45 minutes.

I was allowed to sit in on the "randori" class and it was different. It wasn't like free sparring like im used to but more like free thought.  Just running through lots of variations of things. Was interesting and just goes to show that randori to one art is different then others.

Now my next skill to learn is patience.  He had to drop the other 2 beginner class's because his EMT job put him on a 24 hour schedule. So he gave me things to work on at home. (sanshin and the punch drill, ukemi, heavy bag work)


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## ballen0351 (Dec 7, 2013)

Congrats glad you found something you enjoy.


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## Kframe (Dec 7, 2013)

Honestly all the fretting and worrying I do, and it was pointless. I was done with MMA anyways. It just dosent have the depth of its stand up that I was wanting. This art has so much depth its not even funny.   Its different from what I am used to, and im going to abandon my preconceived notions of what proper training and randori are. 

They used randori as a way to explore there kata and just play with the art. Everything they did was all based off the sword movements they had just worked on prior.. Except the used those movments unarmed and also with the hand trowel looking thing and it was pretty cool.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 8, 2013)

Sounds like you had a good experience, fantastic! Oh, and it's called a kunai (the "trowel looking thing").


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## Kframe (Dec 8, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> Sounds like you had a good experience, fantastic! Oh, and it's called a kunai (the "trowel looking thing").



Ya that thing! Ill say it looks like a interesting weapon. Almost like something a gardner would use.  I cant imagine what kind of damage a large trowel like that made of steel or iron would do to someone..  He related a story of one year Soke Hatsumi wanted to show that they could be used for armor. So he strapped on Kunai all over his body during his class. 


Ill say this, I loved the hanbo stuff. Ya it was just the three basic strikes, but still I love that kind of stuff. I was smiling the entire time. 

It is just SO much different then any other stick art I have seen(including the Stick dvd I have from Sang H Kim).  The Hira ichimonji no kamae dosent seem as aggressive as some of the stances I saw in Sang H Kims dvds and some fma arts.  We worked on Naname waki uchi,  mawashi kote uchi, and kote uchi.(Yay for beginner handbooks)    The mune muso no Kamae stance looked kinda like a natural walking with a stick stance.  Though I do wonder were in real life a person with a stick(cane or walking stick) would use Otonashi no kamae. 


One thing I didn't expect was the work out my legs got. I wasn't sore when I left class yesterday. My legs are very sore today. It feels like I was back in the body weight drills we did in mma. Man they are sore.  I guess its because I was trying to "sink" into the stances as deeply as I could and we moved through them pretty quickly.  I am pleasantly surprised by this. 

Even though I was  not skilled enough to participate in the randori class that followed, he made sure to include me in the verbal class room instruction and discussion of various things. I found that to be nice,  I still existed, I didn't suddenly just drop off the world because my class ended. 

I used to think all the rolling  or taking ukemi was weird.  Then as I was watching the higher ranks go through there stuff I noticed why they rolled.(man they moved fast in there class, They went through the entire basics class in 30mins then on to there stuff sword evasion and what not)  IF you didn't roll with some of the techniques  you would face plant right into the mat(or concrete if self defense). Suddenly all the rolling makes sense, either roll with it, or face plant into the mat or as Sensei pointed out get a joint broken..

Really impatient to get to 9th kyu so I can get into the regular class, and get training  more frequently.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 8, 2013)

Congrats and welcome to the Bujinkan.  Over time your legs will be like iron!  All that rolling and break falling and getting back up will make your legs firm!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 8, 2013)

Next year when I am teaching back in the midwest we will have to hook up!


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## Kframe (Dec 8, 2013)

Heck ya. 

Seeing as he has only 1 class a week for beginners thanks to his work schedule I am also filling my time at  BJJ place during the week.   Since it will likely take a year or so to get to 9th at my current rate of study I need to keep working out my other skills.


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## Spinedoc (Dec 8, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Heck ya.
> 
> Seeing as he has only 1 class a week for beginners thanks to his work schedule I am also filling my time at  BJJ place during the week.   Since it will likely take a year or so to get to 9th at my current rate of study I need to keep working out my other skills.



Congrats...Sounds like you had an awesome time. That is way cool.....Good on ya. As far as Ukemi....yeah, you need to roll with it, or you will end up really hurt. My Aikido sensei says that the only real serious injuries he has seen so far have been from bad ukemi. It's how people get hurt.


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## donald1 (Dec 8, 2013)

Great work,  sanchin kata is personally one of my favorites in the goju ryu style I take its the version that was introduced by master higaonna which goes to the front then the back and finishes in the front 
(i found this good example of it) 

http://youtu.be/TKoz2Bqfx_s


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## Jon-Bhoy (Dec 9, 2013)

donald1 said:


> Great work,  sanchin kata is personally one of my favorites in the goju ryu style I take its the version that was introduced by master higaonna which goes to the front then the back and finishes in the front
> (i found this good example of it)
> 
> http://youtu.be/TKoz2Bqfx_s



That and "Sanshin no kata" are completely different.


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## Kframe (Dec 10, 2013)

For those interested, here is the reason I decided to put away my cage fighting dream and do taijutsu.  The issue comes down to confidence and self worth, or in my case the feeling of self worthlessness.    

My issues with self confidence wont be solved in the cage. If I win, I wont be satisfied, and the feelings of self worthlessness will come back shortly after rush of victory wears off. I should know, my first time doing an actual mma rules sparring was of a match style. There would be a winner and a looser. I, at 6months of mma and 6months of boxing steped in and beat, handily a 5year TKD blackbelt(kkw). 

Ya I felt good for a few days but it soon faded. I have to have confidence for my self and fighting in a cage wont give that. I have to already like my self, which would get worse if I lost... 

That being said, I enjoyed my first official class. Though one question did pop up, and that was how well does this art deal with retraction. You know like a boxer or mma wont lunge punch but will retract there punch. I noticed while watching the upper level class, one of the drills was a parry, with the right arm and a grab into a omote gyaku with the left. I don't see that working on a Jab it would retract to fast. Do you think it would work on a NON jab straight left(more of a power shot) and a right cross/straight right? 

I get the feeling this art doesn't deal well with jabbing type of attacks and attacks that retract quickly?

I asked sensei and he said that one of the lessons was not to be to committed to doing a technique and to go with what you are given. He said that the movements they worked on would have still worked, but instead of a grab into a gyaku, the hand would have been checking a potential shot from the other side.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 11, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Ya that thing! Ill say it looks like a interesting weapon. Almost like something a gardner would use.  I cant imagine what kind of damage a large trowel like that made of steel or iron would do to someone..


 
Or a carpenter.... just sayin'... 



Kframe said:


> He related a story of one year Soke Hatsumi wanted to show that they could be used for armor. So he strapped on Kunai all over his body during his class.



Yeah, I know of that as well. It's an interesting idea, and gives good ideas of using what might be considered "ordinary" items in protective forms... I'm not convinced of any historical authenticity to it, but I also don't think that's the point of it. Interestingly, though, amongst the forms of armour that were created, there were variations on kote (the sleeves) which featured almost gourd-shaped plates on the forearms, which was a similar idea (stitched into the fabric and chainmail, of course). These were called Oda Kote, with the plates known as Hyouten Gane.



Kframe said:


> Ill say this, I loved the hanbo stuff. Ya it was just the three basic strikes, but still I love that kind of stuff. I was smiling the entire time.
> 
> It is just SO much different then any other stick art I have seen(including the Stick dvd I have from Sang H Kim).  The Hira ichimonji no kamae dosent seem as aggressive as some of the stances I saw in Sang H Kims dvds and some fma arts.  We worked on Naname waki uchi,  mawashi kote uchi, and kote uchi.(Yay for beginner handbooks)    The mune muso no Kamae stance looked kinda like a natural walking with a stick stance.  Though I do wonder were in real life a person with a stick(cane or walking stick) would use Otonashi no kamae.



Otonashi no Kamae ("Silent" posture) is used commonly to strike from unexpected directions... interestingly, one of the common traits of all lines of Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu that I've seen include taking the staff behind your body at some point... this is simply the expression of that tactic in Hanbojutsu/Sanjakubojutsu.



Kframe said:


> One thing I didn't expect was the work out my legs got. I wasn't sore when I left class yesterday. My legs are very sore today. It feels like I was back in the body weight drills we did in mma. Man they are sore.  I guess its because I was trying to "sink" into the stances as deeply as I could and we moved through them pretty quickly.  I am pleasantly surprised by this.



Good, the legs is where you should feel the most work happening.



Kframe said:


> Even though I was  not skilled enough to participate in the randori class that followed, he made sure to include me in the verbal class room instruction and discussion of various things. I found that to be nice,  I still existed, I didn't suddenly just drop off the world because my class ended.



Cool.



Kframe said:


> I used to think all the rolling  or taking ukemi was weird.  Then as I was watching the higher ranks go through there stuff I noticed why they rolled.(man they moved fast in there class, They went through the entire basics class in 30mins then on to there stuff sword evasion and what not)  IF you didn't roll with some of the techniques  you would face plant right into the mat(or concrete if self defense). Suddenly all the rolling makes sense, either roll with it, or face plant into the mat or as Sensei pointed out get a joint broken..



Yep, that's pretty much in (in training). It also teaches you how to safely move with an attack of various forms... but, on a purely practical standpoint, it's just a good idea to be able to safely hit the ground... even if all that ever happens to you is you slip on wet concrete...



Kframe said:


> Really impatient to get to 9th kyu so I can get into the regular class, and get training  more frequently.



Eh, the most important thing is to attend the classes, listen to the guidance you're given, and take it from there.



Kframe said:


> That being said, I enjoyed my first official class. Though one question did pop up, and that was how well does this art deal with retraction. You know like a boxer or mma wont lunge punch but will retract there punch. I noticed while watching the upper level class, one of the drills was a parry, with the right arm and a grab into a omote gyaku with the left. I don't see that working on a Jab it would retract to fast. Do you think it would work on a NON jab straight left(more of a power shot) and a right cross/straight right?
> 
> I get the feeling this art doesn't deal well with jabbing type of attacks and attacks that retract quickly?
> 
> I asked sensei and he said that one of the lessons was not to be to committed to doing a technique and to go with what you are given. He said that the movements they worked on would have still worked, but instead of a grab into a gyaku, the hand would have been checking a potential shot from the other side.​


​
Again, at present, the best idea is to pay attention to your instructor and listen to what they tell you... but I will say that there's more to it than that... there are reasons the attacks are the way they are...


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## Kframe (Dec 11, 2013)

Thank you for the reply Chris. I understand that I need to just be patient and train. Its just I cant help but think.  I try to be aware of the different kinds of things im likely to encounter.    


One thing I was kind of curious about was how this art practices its striking defense. When I did karate for a lil bit and when I watch karate videos and videos of related arts  I notice that they do there defense practice very differently.  They do this long form multi part movement, were as so far in the videos of taijutsu I have seen and the few blocks in the sanshin kata I am I doing they are not multi part movments. Though the movement is a large one.(a large circle for the ones I have practiced so far).  

How did such a differentiation form between striking defenses?   What is the historical context of the way the arts that make up Taijutsu do there striking defense for unarmed attacks? I know its way above my pay grade, but I am curious.   I get the feeling its related to the movements of the weapons.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 15, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Thank you for the reply Chris. I understand that I need to just be patient and train. Its just I cant help but think.  I try to be aware of the different kinds of things im likely to encounter.


 
Cool. But you really should realize that an art from hundreds of years ago, and a completely different country and culture, really isn't necessarily going to have anything specifically designed for modern, Western-derived methods and styles of attack. The principles can be easily adapted, but to expect to simply see what you're hoping for without understanding the vast gaps between contexts is frankly missing reality (as are, to my mind, quite a number of the answers you're getting over on MAP... but that's another story...).



Kframe said:


> One thing I was kind of curious about was how this art practices its striking defense. When I did karate for a lil bit and when I watch karate videos and videos of related arts  I notice that they do there defense practice very differently.  They do this long form multi part movement, were as so far in the videos of taijutsu I have seen and the few blocks in the sanshin kata I am I doing they are not multi part movments. Though the movement is a large one.(a large circle for the ones I have practiced so far).



Hmm, not quite sure what you're asking here... each system will answer questions in their own way. Looking at one, especially when trying to learn it, and asking "why don't you do it the same way I've seen others do it?" can lead to any number of issues, honestly... the better question to ask is "what's the reasoning behind this approach? What are the principles?" You might then find that they're actually not that dissimilar... for instance, I only really understood a lot of the karate and TKD I did after I left there and went to the Bujinkan... 



Kframe said:


> How did such a differentiation form between striking defenses?   What is the historical context of the way the arts that make up Taijutsu do there striking defense for unarmed attacks? I know its way above my pay grade, but I am curious.   I get the feeling its related to the movements of the weapons.



That's not only way beyond your pay grade, it's such a wide question that there's no way to actually answer it. You have to remember that the arts of the Bujinkan are multiple... the way Gyokko Ryu deals with striking attacks is different to the way Koto Ryu does, which is different to Kukishinden Ryu, and so on... then again, Togakure Ryu doesn't have striking defences (for it's own, very good and appropriate reasons).... Shinden Fudo Ryu Jujutsu has almost no striking defence, but a lot of grappling (which comes from it's context of armoured combat), and so on. So, first thing we'd need to do is to look at which Ryu-ha's historical context we're talking about... but, more importantly, you've had two classes. Relax, and pay attention.

But, for the record, yes, connections to weapon usage is certainly a part of it... but not in the way many think it is...


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