# Moo Lim Do and Kap Chul Lim



## Wolfofmibu (May 29, 2014)

I was looking for a place to train and I was wondering if anyone had any information on Moo Lim Do or it's Grand Master Kap Chul Lim?
 I have met him before and was a bit put off by him, but that could have been due to a large number of factors 


thanks for any info


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## jezr74 (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't have any information, but maybe trial training at the dojang and make a decision based off first hand experience?


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## KukSulKido (Aug 3, 2014)

I came across your post here recently.  I can answer all of your questions you might have about Moo Lim Do and GM Lim.  I trained under one of his instructors since the early '90's and I trained directly under him and his son Il Lim for several years while I was an instructor under him.  

GM Lim trained in Tae Kwon Do in High School, Kuk Sul at some point and then HapKiDo under Grand Master Choi Young Sool.  Him and his son are by far some of the most skilled martial artists I have every seen or know.  Thier skill and technique is unbelievable!  GM Lim came to the US with his wife and son back in the mid 1970's and stayed with a host family in Tremonton, UT.  After a bit he started teaching in that area and also Weber State University.  Later on he moved to Layton to the location he is at now. 
He focuses training almost entirely on kicking techniques.  He use to teach weapons, breaking and put more focus on the self defense teachniques of HapKiDo/Kuk Sul back in the early to mid 80's, but then started to not teach those aspects as much.  He barely started teaching us instructors those types of things more over the last several years.  Back in the early to mid 90's he probably had around 1500 students under him and his other instructors.  All belt testing is done under him.  He has never allowed his instructors to do belt testing for their students.  

However... on the downside of things, all of his instructors have left and broken off from him except for 2.  I broke off from him last year and teach under the name of Kuk Sul Kido in Clearfield and I help teach in Brigham City as well.  I had been under GM Lim for some 21 years when I broke off.  I can give you some of the reasons that most of us have broke off from him if you want to contact me privately.  With what I teach I have gone back and started including things that GM Lim hasn't taught in a long time and other elements of Kuk Sul Hapkido.  I also have made testing requirements harder and more worth it for students.  Let me know if you have any questions!

  - Dorian Kunzler
www.facebook.com/KukSulKido




Wolfofmibu said:


> I was looking for a place to train and I was wondering if anyone had any information on Moo Lim Do or it's Grand Master Kap Chul Lim?
> I have met him before and was a bit put off by him, but that could have been due to a large number of factors
> 
> 
> thanks for any info


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## Corgi owner (Nov 28, 2018)

Even though this is years later I want to comment on this post. I was a student of Grandmaster Lim back in the 80s and 90s. He wasn't really even teaching much of the hapkido joint locks or any of that stuff just very basic. Even his students at 6th Dan  degree level probably knew about a 150-160 of those techniques. I agree that he has very high level of skill. The problems were and he hardly ever taught anybody anything even after years and years and years of being there. Other problems were his test fees became ridiculous somewhere now around $600 for a first degree black belt and even eight or nine years ago he was charging $4,000 for a 6th degree black belt test. And most of those tests you were just doing stuff you already did in class and not really doing anything new so his problem was he became very commercialized didn't really teach any of the art and charged exorbitant test fees. Those are some of the reasons that several of us black belt students left. How do you skip teaching new things you probably owe student base of over 3,000 people at the time I was with him is Peaked around 1500. You better off going somewhere else to learn things like mrs. O's in sunset.


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## WaterGal (Nov 30, 2018)

Only 160 joint locks? There really are only so many joints in the human body, and only so many useful (painful) ways to bend them. Eventually you're just seeing variations on a theme, how to chain different things together in different combinations from different starting points.

I have no idea who this guy is, though - I'm just not convinced that "only 150-160 different joint locks in the curriculum" is really a valid criticism.


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## Corgi owner (Nov 30, 2018)

That includes all the techniques in the system not just joint locks but throws pressure point strikes all the stuff. Even in the hapkido tune Cooke Soul books there was many many more technician they were taught yes I realize the variations build on them for they know to use they were in there he didn't even teach him that much stuff they didn't even know how to do a lot of the come along or things like that. He was not teaching the short sticks and the cane points in the swords and all those other techniques.


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## WaterGal (Dec 1, 2018)

Corgi owner said:


> That includes all the techniques in the system not just joint locks but throws pressure point strikes all the stuff. Even in the hapkido tune Cooke Soul books there was many many more technician they were taught yes I realize the variations build on them for they know to use they were in there he didn't even teach him that much stuff they didn't even know how to do a lot of the come along or things like that. He was not teaching the short sticks and the cane points in the swords and all those other techniques.



Were they any good at the things they did know?

The longer I study martial arts, the more I'm convinced that learning 1000 different techniques is a waste of time. IMO, it's better to know a smaller set of things really well and be able to apply them under pressure in different situations. 

Like, if you really understand an armbar or sweep, you can get there from all kinds of situations, with different complicating variables. You don't _necessarily _need to learn a whole bunch of different armbar hoshinsul techniques teaching how to do armbar from a wrist grab, from a shirt grab, from a belt grab, on a still opponent, on a moving opponent, etc.

Now, if his advanced students (however many techniques they know) can only do their techniques correctly on an opponent who grabs their same-side wrist from a neutral stance and then stands there not making any resistance..... I'll totally agree that's no good.


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## Corgi owner (Dec 1, 2018)

But that means that they knew and how will they did mention to Barry from the students and when they were taught. A lot of the practice in the dojo was actually just grabbing somebody and not really getting much resistance and they didn't Spar it also I think in some ways that was a disservice. My whole point is he playing to teach a traditional Korean martial art then takes all of the aspects of that art and have specific requirements for each belt advancement like all the years I studied in Campo or other martial arts have. Master Lim did not have any specific requirements for each belt other than he might have you do one or two new kicks for 2nd to 3rd Dan test. Feeling to see some of the style Google moved them though or Tremonton hapkido is going to the website so using now. Our HKD style was supposedly kuk sool won. What style of Hapkido do you teach at your dojang?


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## oftheherd1 (Dec 1, 2018)

WaterGal said:


> Only 160 joint locks? There really are only so many joints in the human body, and only so many useful (painful) ways to bend them. Eventually you're just seeing variations on a theme, how to chain different things together in different combinations from different starting points.
> 
> I have no idea who this guy is, though - I'm just not convinced that "only 150-160 different joint locks in the curriculum" is really a valid criticism.



There is some truth to that.  But suppose the school bully sneaks up behind me and unexpectedly gets me in a rear bear hug, locking his finger knuckles, I have some quick choices to make.  Do you know more than one technique for defense against that?  Which would you use?



WaterGal said:


> Were they any good at the things they did know?
> 
> *The longer I study martial arts, the more I'm convinced that learning 1000 different techniques is a waste of time. IMO, it's better to know a smaller set of things really well and be able to apply them under pressure in different situations. *
> 
> ...



But wouldn't you consider that a different technique?  You may end up with the same armbar, but you used a different method to get there, therefore making it a different technique, that happens to end with the same armbar?


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## Corgi owner (Mar 24, 2019)

jezr74 said:


> I don't have any information, but maybe trial training at the dojang and make a decision based off first hand experience?





Corgi owner said:


> But that means that they knew and how will they did mention to Barry from the students and when they were taught. A lot of the practice in the dojo was actually just grabbing somebody and not really getting much resistance and they didn't Spar it also I think in some ways that was a disservice. My whole point is he playing to teach a traditional Korean martial art then takes all of the aspects of that art and have specific requirements for each belt advancement like all the years I studied in Campo or other martial arts have. Master Lim did not have any specific requirements for each belt other than he might have you do one or two new kicks for 2nd to 3rd Dan test. Feeling to see some of the style Google moved them though or Tremonton hapkido is going to the website so using now. Our HKD style was supposedly kuk sool won. What style of Hapkido do you teach at your dojang?


I looked at my post that I made a few months ago and they realize that the other school that I would recommend up in that area would be Dorian Kunzler at Kuk Sup Kido since Dorian was a student of Master Lim for several years after my time And Dorian has an extremely high level of skill plus he’s at the door on a lot of the techniques that Master Lim was not teaching.


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## Zith (Jan 17, 2021)

Utah. I currently train under him and he's really good.


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