# Not This Again?



## Yianie (Feb 22, 2012)

Hello everyone. I have a question that I am sure has been asked several times. I am a 52 male, athletic  build, in excellent condition. I am looking for a location that teaches combat tai chi. I was told that it consist of learning your opponents flow, using leverage against your opponent, and is very effecient.  Things that I am looking for in a martial art. Being that I cannot  find a location that teaches combat tai chi , I was talked into taking Chinese kung fu. I do not think the instructor, who is very skilled, immature 21 year old, Chinese man, who trained in China understands that someone new, and 52, cannot learn high kicks, and hip throws by the 3rd lesson.  I am very depressed because I am 1 of 3 in the class that has no experience, while everyone else has years of experience and are doing very well.  Yes, I have spoken the the instructor, but it's gets lost in the translation.   After searching for several months, these are my other options:
1. Karate. - local school
2. Aikido - 30 min drive
3. Combate Tai Chi - 1.5 hr each way
4. Tiaquando - local
5. Krav Maga - 1.5 hr each way (2nd favorite)

I know that I will never be a master martial artist, but I do have other skills that have nothing to do with kicking butt.  My goal is to learn REAL self defense. On another note, I was bullied for several years in grade schools, so getting rid of some Demond's is another goal.  Your thoughts is GREATLY appreciated.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 22, 2012)

1: Being depressed because You cant magic years of experience into yourself is foolhardy. Think of it as wiser teachers.
2: Go to a Gym, do bagwork.
3: What form of Kung Fu is this that slides straight into High Kicks? Anyway. Try looking into other Systems. There is no one Kung Fu. Southern Mantis and Wing Chun would probably suit You by the looks of it.
4: Good Luck.


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## jks9199 (Feb 22, 2012)

You'll have a very hard time finding legitimate fighting tai chi or taiji.  There just plain aren't that many people out there who can teach the fighting aspects, and the odds are that they aren't teaching in a very public manner.  It's not impossible, just unlikely.

I'd suggest you visit each school, and see which one feels like it might be a good fit.  Also -- don't limit yourself.  Nothing prevents you from learning and reaching a very respectable level of mastery of a martial art -- except any limits you put on yourself.


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## Jason Striker II (Feb 22, 2012)

If the Karate system being taught locally is Japanese or Okinawan (i.e. Shotokan, Goju, Isshin Ryu), I think you might want to look into it.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 22, 2012)

If you're unhappy with your current school, the best thing you can do is go sit in on class in a few other places and see how they feel. Talk to the instructors and get a feel for them, their teaching styles, see how they interact with the students, get an idea of the material they cover.

There's no truth to the idea that any given art is better or more "real" than another. It's a matter of finding an art that teaches a skillset that compliments your own inclinations and abilities, and how hard you work at it. 

Welcome to MT. Hope you enoy it.


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## TaiChiTJ (Feb 22, 2012)

I was told that it consist of learning your opponents flow, using leverage against your opponent, and is very effecient.

Just about ALL systems to some degree will make statements like this. even though the sign on the door does not say "Combat Tai Chi". Get off the couch and go watch a class. You mention you were bullied once, I assume that includes physical as well as verbal.  So you know what its like to be pushed around. That and that alone can be viewed as valuable, important, real world experience. 

 Go to one of these studios, introduce yourself, respectfuly ask permission to watch a class, and without getting involved in a lot of mental analysis or terms like  combat tai chi, shut up, open your eyes and watch what they do, the ways in which they move. Ask yourself, "Is this me? Can I see myself happily developing these movement patterns? Do I have the physical stamina to make a practice of this stuff? From my experience in the real world, even if it was only a little, would I agree these movement patterns provide a measure of self protection?" 

Next, talk ***a little*** to the teacher. He or she does not have time to hear your life story. Get a sense of their ability to communicate. Expressing a healthy love and pride for their art or system is fine, arrogant boasting about "our system beats everything...", is cause for caution. Is the teacher oriented to competitions? Is the main focus for the school to have winners at the next tournament? That's outside the self defense orientation you say you are looking for. If you think you can fit in, try a class.

A word about money. Signing into long, legally binding contractual agreements is the stuff of many, many horror stories. The teacher should have a monthly rate, and if there are agreements they should be reasonable and not lock you into making payments forever.

Take it a step at a time and trust youself. 
Good luck.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 23, 2012)

First thing: I can understand having been bullied being a reason for being interested in MA. However, if you can't forget that early on you are going to have problems. At some point, you need to study an MA without that as you primary goal. An MA can help you against bullies, but a better lesson is in avoiding them. I don't know you so you may already have that ability.

Second thing: Don't worry about your age other than you will not likely be as flexible, but you can improve on it. If an MA doesn't allow for you to compensate for that, you might want to look for one that does. FYI, I was 46 when I began studying Hapkido. It wasn't easy. I was in reasonably good shape, being in the US Army. But I was not flexible. I still work on that. But flexibility for high kicks is over rated. Generally, the best kicks to use are waist or below.

Third thing: My personal suggestion would be to look at the available Karate as suggested Jason Striker II, and Aikido. Some Karate schools have a great array of tools beyond simply block, strike/kick. I suggest Aikido as it is similar to Hapkido, which I would suggest if it were available. Look at any other schools that are within 30 minutes to an hour before you decide. I don't presume you will go more than two or three days a week, and if the MA is sufficiently interesting, that is doable. Certain 30 minutes or less. And in considering your choices, remember there is no bad MA. They all have pluses and minuses. The MA/school you like best is the best one for you.

Good luck in your decision.


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## Buka (Feb 23, 2012)

I believe you answered your own question. It's 1.5 hours away.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 23, 2012)

Wait, wait.
Whats "Taiquando"?


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## Carol (Feb 23, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Wait, wait.
> Whats "Taiquando"?



That is how TKD is spelled in some languages other than English.  We have a global audience here, not everyone speaks English as their first language.


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## ETinCYQX (Feb 23, 2012)

I had no idea what Taiquando could have been either


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## Instructor (Feb 23, 2012)

Having read your post I also vote for Aikido.  It's reasonably close geographically and has no high kicks.

I started martial arts because of bullying as well, a guy put me in the hospital when I was 16.  That was my motivation to _start_ but it was not my motivation to _stay_.  My motivation to stay was because I love to do martial arts, it's fun, and it gives me an interesting perspective on life.

Above all find a school you love.  I chose Tae Kwon do in the beginning without knowing anything about anything.  I chose it because the teacher was patient and kind and made me feel like part of the family.  We are still best friends after 21 years!  It was only later that I began to learn the differences between styles.

At the end of the day no style is better than another and no style is worse than another.  You will get out what you put in.  Work hard in any style and you will eventually be effective.


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## Cyriacus (Feb 23, 2012)

Carol said:


> That is how TKD is spelled in some languages other than English.  We have a global audience here, not everyone speaks English as their first language.


I really had no idea that was even possible - I always figured the names to be fairly generically inherited, since TKD isnt its English name either, persay.
Good to know!


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## Yianie (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your input.  From what i've heard, it will most likely be Aikido.  

For TaiChiTJ. -  "Get off the couch" and "Shut up and open your eyes".....Really?  You must very good at martial arts with an attitude like that.  Do you seem to be defending yourself a lot and wonder why?  All but those comments are greatly appreciated.  The facts are that I work 12 hr days and I have been looking, researching and listening to as many experienced people as I can.  It is those comments that s scare others into not trying anything new or different.  Maybe you can try something different also, like compassion, understanding, and the willingness to put yourself in someone else's shoes.


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## TaiChiTJ (Feb 23, 2012)

Sorry if I offended. The comments were as much for myself as anyone else. I'm glad you shared a little bit more about your lifestyle situation, like these 12 hr workdays. That's a heavy duty workday. I assume you are not working 7 days a week. These facts would have to be brought up with a prospective teacher. That is definitely useful for the teacher to know. I am assuming money is tight but if you can, consider a teacher who will coach you and maybe a friend or something, so its not exactly a private lesson, but you will learn enough to have something valuble and then later on take another class. This is definitely going to have to be with a teacher who has a flexible teaching schedule. If you get to know the various teachers and studios in your martial arts community, you can make a good decision.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 23, 2012)

Yianie said:


> Thank you everyone for your input.  From what i've heard, it will most likely be Aikido.
> 
> For TaiChiTJ. -  "Get off the couch" and "Shut up and open your eyes".....Really?  You must very good at martial arts with an attitude like that.  Do you seem to be defending yourself a lot and wonder why?  All but those comments are greatly appreciated.  The facts are that I work 12 hr days and I have been looking, researching and listening to as many experienced people as I can.  It is those comments that s scare others into not trying anything new or different.  Maybe you can try something different also, like compassion, understanding, and the willingness to put yourself in someone else's shoes.



It may have been upsetting to you but he's right.

You need to go to the schools and see what they are teaching and see if it fits you. You need to talk to the teacher and see if you feel you can get along with them or learn from them.

Asking a bunch of faceless nameless people that you do not know on an internet forum is close to useless. We do not know you nor do we know what will fit you. We do not know the schools or the teachers to be able to give a good and proper response to your question.

Research the styles in the internet and you will likely get more from that which is of importance to you than what we can give you here.

I would be the first to say avoid anything labeled "Combat" it is labeled that way mostly for sales purposes and Taijiquan doubly so. Chances are it is not Taijiquan either. It may be good for self-defense but I am pretty sure it is not Taiji nor is it used in combat. But then I am not there, I have not looked at the school and it could be great.

May I suggest you start looking here and you may get closer to figuring out what you want, what is best for you and I am pretty certain you are a much better judge as to what fits you than any of us here are


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 23, 2012)

Xue Sheng said:


> May I suggest you start looking here and you may get closer to figuring out what you want, what is best for you and I am pretty certain you are a much better judge as to what fits you than any of us here are



While I agree that the most useful thing to do is to personally see the schools and classes and talk to the instructors, I have to disagree with this.

How is asking a bunch of faceless, nameless people on a generic "answer my question" forum any better than  asking a bunch of faceless, nameless people on a forum specifically aimed at martial artists, where the replies will most likely be from actual martial artists?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 23, 2012)

Dirty Dog said:


> While I agree that the most useful thing to do is to personally see the schools and classes and talk to the instructors, I have to disagree with this.
> 
> How is asking a bunch of faceless, nameless people on a generic "answer my question" forum any better than  asking a bunch of faceless, nameless people on a forum specifically aimed at martial artists, where the replies will most likely be from actual martial artists?



What I am saying is do the research find a starting point, go to a library, buy a book, go to the school whatever you wish all IMO are better than asking here, you will get more out of it beyond style preference and opinion, albeit an opinion based on personal experience...maybe. And without knowing the individual who is asking you cannot, IMO, give any real answer to the question.

What that link gives you is a general overview so you can then rule out certain style and learn a bit about others before you ask anything. Don't want to go there...don't got there. Want to ask strangers on a web page... go ask strangers on a web page....it is all up to the individual.

Mine is only a recommendation based on many many others that have come here and asked similar questions, don't agree with it...that&#8217;s ok too


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## oaktree (Feb 23, 2012)

> I am looking for a location that teaches combat tai chi.


 What's that? :mst:



> I was told that it consist of learning your opponents flow, using leverage against your opponent, and is very effecient. Things that I am looking for in a martial art.


 Sounds like every martial art. 



> I do not think the instructor, who is very skilled, immature 21 year old, Chinese man, who trained in China understands that someone new, and 52, cannot learn high kicks, and hip throws by the 3rd lesson.


 I think he is a very hard teacher and requires hard training sounds very traditional oh well.





> Being that I cannot find a location that teaches combat tai chi , I was talked into taking Chinese kung fu.



Gong xi! I wonder what type of Chinese wushu.




> I am very depressed because I am 1 of 3 in the class that has no experience, while everyone else has years of experience and are doing very well.


I was once 1 of 2 in a class and I kept beating the other guy yet the teacher still promoted him more than me I think he had $$$

Well with your options go visit each school discuss with the teacher your goals and weigh out the pros and cons of each school and which school offers the greatest pros toward your goal. All the arts you listed will offer you what you want as far as self defense and improvement. So the best is to experience it.

Think of it this way: On this site we are all professional chefs you ate mcdonald's yet you want to try the taste of a filet migon or a sea bass in miso dressing. Then you ask which one is the best tasting. Only you can experience which one taste the best. Good luck!


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## Toast_in_the_Machine (Feb 26, 2012)

If the instructor can't effectively get the best from you (age difference, language, cultural barriers, whatever) then you need to have a different instruction.  (With the understanding that sometimes the student doesn't hear what the instructor is saying).

If you are looking for "REAL" self defense then choose to train in "REAL" self defense.  Given the options you list, this would be Krav (assuming, again, that there is a good instructor there).  Also in Krav there are no high kicks.  My favorite joke is that in TKD you learn to kick someone in the head; in Krav you kick them in the nuts so they lower your their head, then you kick them in the head.

That said, as a fellow late bloomer, flexibility sucks, and working on it is my least favorite thing.  I have a good instructor, but he started early in life and isn't very sympathetic to my lack of flexibility.  That said, it is what I work most on and have a singular pride in (as in no one else is as proud of me as I am).

Good luck on the demons, the peace is within you already.


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## K-man (Feb 27, 2012)

I will declare my bias up front. I learn aikido and teach karate and I was older than you when I started aikido. Both are great martial arts and the softness that you talk about trying to find in combat Tai Chi also is the basis of aikido.  The downside is the time it takes to become reasonably skilled in aikido.  What I would suggest is to go to the karate school and see if you can take part in a lesson. (Personally I give potential students four free lessons to let them see if what we do suits them.) Even if they charge you you will get a much better feel for what they do.  

Good luck.


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