# Teaching Taekwondo to beginners over the age of 40



## lifespantkd

For those of you who teach Taekwondo and for those of you who practice Taekwondo over the age of 40, what do you think are critical things to know regarding the needs (e.g., physical, psychological, logistical, learning styles, philosophy, ...) of beginning students who are over the age of 40? Any approaches you think are best or that you avoid at all cost? Class structure? Basic drills? Fitness? ???

Thank you!

Cynthia


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## granfire

How old are you? 

Old people need a thorough warmup.

Most of us are not as active as the average young person (Teenager)

We also need a it more time to catch our breath in between drills.


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## Steve

Well, I don't know TKD, but I can share my opinions as a martial artist who is over 40.  I appreciate a lack of BS.  I don't like having my time wasted, so I like classes that are well structured and that start and end on time.  I have familial obligations, so if the class is supposed to end at 7pm, I expect to be out the door at 7:05pm.  

At my age, I also appreciate good warmups and an emphasis on stretching. 

Beyond this, I think things are pretty much the same as for younger students.  I enjoy variety.  I appreciate competence in my instructors.  I like a little competition.  

Also true for older students is to remember that while they may be new to TKD or martial arts in general, they have been around the block a few times.  At 40, it's very likely they have expertise that is relevant and can be helpful.  Treating them the same way you'd treat a 15 year old would be, IMO, a big mistake and undervalues their life experience and maturity.


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## lifespantkd

granfire said:


> How old are you?



I am young at heart if not in body!

Cynthia


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## granfire

lifespantkd said:


> I am young at heart if not in body!
> 
> Cynthia




LOL, I was asking because at one time one of the Jr instructors taught class. Sweet kid, but at only 18, his pace was abit swift for most of us middle aged people. ^_^


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## ETinCYQX

granfire said:


> LOL, I was asking because at one time one of the Jr instructors taught class. Sweet kid, but at only 18, his pace was abit swift for most of us middle aged people. ^_^



Hah, I can imagine...

I'm lucky, my oldest student is 31 and he has awesome cardio. I can run them as hard as I want


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## ralphmcpherson

Ive actually found recently that lots of 40+ people have been through their 'off the rails' years and have actually been through the realisation that you need to look after yourself. Most 40 year olds I come accross at training eat well, do a lot of cardio outside of the dojang, drink less alcohol and do less drugs than the young ones. The fittest, best conditioned guy I train with is 42, he leaves the young guys for dead.  The younger students tend to party more, eat crap, have a lack of sleep, hate cardio etc. As steve said, the older students also appreciate less B.S, they are there to train and learn and dont need all the 'fluff'.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

lifespantkd said:


> For those of you who teach Taekwondo and for those of you who practice Taekwondo over the age of 40, what do you think are critical things to know regarding the needs (e.g., physical, psychological, logistical, learning styles, philosophy, ...) of beginning students who are over the age of 40? Any approaches you think are best or that you avoid at all cost? Class structure? Basic drills? Fitness? ???
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Cynthia


I think there is a greater variety of fitness and abilities at 40 years of age than at 10 years.  At 40 year olds, one guy has done weights, jogging, and stretching for 20 years, and the next has done nothing. For the fit guys, I don't think the class should be any different than for the younger adults or teenagers.  In fact, I personally like training with the teenagers since I cannot accept that I am old 

One thing I would prefer, and I have only seen it at one club, is increased independence.  I agreed with one instructor who said to us (mostly university students) "you guys are all adults.  You know how to stretch and warm up.  You don't need to pay me to do that for you.  So warm up and stretch at home, then we will only do a quick warm up before we start".  I like that because I think 15 minutes of running around is a waste of time and money for me, when I went jogging earlier that evening.

So in brief, consider the individual's body more than with younger classes, and treat them more as independent adults.


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## SPX

Steve said:


> Also true for older students is to remember that while they may be new to TKD or martial arts in general, they have been around the block a few times.  At 40, it's very likely they have expertise that is relevant and can be helpful.  Treating them the same way you'd treat a 15 year old would be, IMO, a big mistake and undervalues their life experience and maturity.



Good point and that's true even if you're 29.  I had an instructor not long ago who liked to raise his voice a lot and order people around.  Eventually I was just like, Look, I'm a grown man.  You need to treat me with some respect or I'm out of here.


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## oftheherd1

I got back into MA in my mid-40s.  I asked no mercy and certainly got none.  In our 40s we probably need to stretch more.  Well, actually, I got into Hapkido, not TKD, and we have to stretch more anyway.  But in our 40s, if we haven't kept in stretch, we have to work on it more.  The cardio part will just come with time.  Don't give up to easily, but if you have any doubts about your condition, I would check with a doctor, and tell him what you are going to be doing, so he can ensure you that you aren't going to force a heart attack.  Work outside the dojo will obviously help as well.  But mostly, you can get in as good a shape as anyone else, just maybe not as quick.


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## miguksaram

For those who are just starting out, just re-assure them that you are not going to treat them like a teenager.  Many of them come in already intimidated with the "I'm too old for this." mentality.  It is your job to let them know that they can do this and not to compare themselves with a younger person.  No more than you would expect an 18 year old to have the maturity of a 40 year old.  Physically speaking, as it has been said, make sure they are warmed up.  Good cardio is the best thing.  Do not coddle them though.  They are there to work out not be treated like senior citizens with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.  You have to push them to push themselves.  Be upfront and let them know..it will not be easy, but it will be fun.


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## Bill Mattocks

I started at 46, and to be honest (and not to pick on TKD), I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks.  While I have been assured by various persons that 'anyone can learn' to kick backwards over their head while spinning 540 degrees, I do not agree.  I know my limitations.  Isshin-Ryu has been the right art for me.  Low kicks, power, absolute brutality.  This, I can do.  I figure you have to play to your strengths and not your weaknesses when you get to a certain age.  I won't ever be an astronaut, but damn I can dig a pretty ditch to lay one down in.


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## StudentCarl

First, I think it's vital for the instructor to be at least that age or have regular guidance from someone in that age group. It's important to understand the physiology and psychology that comes with the age.

Second, it's key to the success of the program for the students to develop confidence that they can still be athletic and make significant progress; they are not 'over-the-hill' at all. Many don't try or have low expectations because it's more painful to regain fitness than it was as a teenager. Frequent praise coupled with a patient and progressive curriculum will light up the eyes of adults just like little kids--success is addictive. Adults need to be patient with their bodies, taking the extra time to stretch and warmup. 

Third, the teaching process is a little different. When practicing, just like kids, some will want lots of feedback and some just need space to experiment. Kids are more willing to be led, whereas adults tend to have preferences for how they approach learning something new. A good instructor of adults will develop the skill of communicating and reading his/her students so they are given the space they need to grow. Adults communicate much more articulately than kids, so you can talk with them as intelligent partners in training rather than you being the brains of the show as you are with younger kids.

Fourth, it takes a positive and encouraging environment for some adults to be willing to take the risk of looking foolish and have the fearlessness of a child to persevere through the early struggles with coordination. Many adults are happily in the part of their lives where they are competent at what they do.  Going back to being a clumsy beginner is a risk for them in some ways more than for their 8 year old. Nobody is looking up to the 8 year old. 

Carl


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## Cyriacus

Bill Mattocks said:


> I started at 46, and to be honest (and not to pick on TKD), I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  *It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks.*  While I have been assured by various persons that 'anyone can learn' to kick backwards over their head while spinning 540 degrees, I do not agree.  I know my limitations.  Isshin-Ryu has been the right art for me.  Low kicks, power, absolute brutality.  This, I can do.  I figure you have to play to your strengths and not your weaknesses when you get to a certain age.  I won't ever be an astronaut, but damn I can dig a pretty ditch to lay one down in.


And this is also why I will *never* Train such a System.

Im not saying this to do the plain old "But it CAN be like THIS" thing. Im more saying that I agree with Your Reasons, and its more or less why I Train where I do and have.
And Im mostly referring to the Bold part.

Im approving of Your Reasons, namely the Underlined part.


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## harlan

I have a slightly different take. My 48 yr old sister wanted to start a martial art, and I steered her towards a local Chung Do Kwan school. She enjoyed it immensely (I find that women really like the group ethos in TKD and the feeling of empowerment that kicking provides). It was a good school in every way: affordable, local, a good mix of warm-up, kata, drills, bunkai and reasonable about modifying for one's health limitations. But the one thing that finally turned her away was the lack of an adult class. Probably an ego thing, but after awhile, being a beginner in a mixed class of adults and children, as an adult you will outpace the children and need to practice with adults.

I guess I'd say the adult crowd, after a certain age, is usually targeted about what they want. More focused and self-motivated.


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## Steve

Bill Mattocks said:


> I started at 46, and to be honest (and not to pick on TKD), I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks.  While I have been assured by various persons that 'anyone can learn' to kick backwards over their head while spinning 540 degrees, I do not agree.  I know my limitations.  Isshin-Ryu has been the right art for me.  Low kicks, power, absolute brutality.  This, I can do.  I figure you have to play to your strengths and not your weaknesses when you get to a certain age.  I won't ever be an astronaut, but damn I can dig a pretty ditch to lay one down in.


Almost exactly the same reasons I landed in a BJJ school.  It's very low impact and is something I can see myself doing for as long as I can move.


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## vikings827

I echo all the above.  I am 57, and need a good warm up and even a better stretch prior to class.  Without it, injury is more likely. And if tkd'ers around my age get injured it takes much longer to heal. That being said, when I do get the time to stretch properly before class I feel great. The properly part is the catch. I stretch every day for 10 minutes. This has helped to prevent muscle strains. Also, repetition of round kicks or side kicks torque the knee, and older students will geet meniscus tears more easily. So, avoiding 50 consecutive round kicks in a drill is a bad idea.
Also if I see that the class is all kids, I will exit and come another time. It will be too hard for the instructor to cater to one old guy. But, if there are adults, even one, I will stay.  

Scott


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## lifespantkd

Thank you, everyone, for the great input! As an older practitioner and someone with experience teaching older practitioners, I can certainly relate to what you've all shared here.

Let me add another question: If you were teaching Taekwondo to over-40 beginners along with their beginner children in a family class (so, everyone there has intentionally chosen the mixed age setting for their own reasons and knowing the pros and cons), what are key issues, approaches, and so on, to best meet the needs of such a diverse age group?

Thank you!

Cynthia


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## miguksaram

Bill Mattocks said:


> I started at 46, and to be honest (and not to pick on TKD), I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks.  While I have been assured by various persons that 'anyone can learn' to kick backwards over their head while spinning 540 degrees, I do not agree.  I know my limitations.  Isshin-Ryu has been the right art for me.  Low kicks, power, absolute brutality.  This, I can do.  I figure you have to play to your strengths and not your weaknesses when you get to a certain age.  I won't ever be an astronaut, but damn I can dig a pretty ditch to lay one down in.



While that was insightful.  The answer really does not have anything to do with the OP's question.  It was asked how do you teach TKD to people in their 40's or older.  So is your answer to turn away potential clients to TKD telling them they are too old?


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## miguksaram

lifespantkd said:


> Let me add another question: If you were teaching Taekwondo to over-40 beginners along with their beginner children in a family class (so, everyone there has intentionally chosen the mixed age setting for their own reasons and knowing the pros and cons), what are key issues, approaches, and so on, to best meet the needs of such a diverse age group?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Cynthia



Again good warm ups are the key.  The kids can handle it and the adults need it.   If the adults tend lag behind the kids, just remind them to do what they can and don't get frustrated with trying to keep up with the kids.  Some of the issues I have encountered in the past are parents being parents during class.  It is natural for them to scold their child if they are misbehaving or try to correct the child if they are not 100% correct in executing the technique.  You have to respectfully remind them that it is your duty to handle the kid if they step out of line.  That way they won't feel beat up by having two adults correcting them, scolding them, or whatever.  

Another issue is to make it a mix of fun with a mix of stern learning.  Even though they intentionally sign up knowing that kids will be there, adults still want some serious lessons as opposed to more light hearted fun that you might have in a kids' class.  So I would recommend repetition of techniques disguised in different drills.  This will keep it interesting for the kids while adults get some good lessons as well and still keep the learning at a normal fun level.

Be sure to switch up partners for drills.  Don't feel you have to stick the kid with one of their own parents all the time.


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## igillman

I would echo a lot of the sentiments already mentioned...

Treat me like an adult. Show me what to do and then watch me do it to make sure I do it properly. I do not need to do 10 push-ups if I get it wrong, that just wastes my time and yours.
I can and will practice on my own at home so once I can do a technique I do not need to repeat it 100 times in the dojang. Repeating it enough times to make it stick long enough for me to do it at home is sufficient.


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## Steve

lifespantkd said:


> Thank you, everyone, for the great input! As an older practitioner and someone with experience teaching older practitioners, I can certainly relate to what you've all shared here.
> 
> Let me add another question: If you were teaching Taekwondo to over-40 beginners along with their beginner children in a family class (so, everyone there has intentionally chosen the mixed age setting for their own reasons and knowing the pros and cons), what are key issues, approaches, and so on, to best meet the needs of such a diverse age group?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Cynthia


I wouldn't do it.  I wouldn't offer it as an option.  If I were going to mix ages so dramatically, I'd do it only in an open mat kind of a setting.


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## Steve

miguksaram said:


> While that was insightful.  The answer really does not have anything to do with the OP's question.  It was asked how do you teach TKD to people in their 40's or older.  So is your answer to turn away potential clients to TKD telling them they are too old?


I can't speak for Bill, but what I took is that you can presume that if someone comes into your school, regardless of age, they believe themselves to be physically capable of performing the activity.  As adults, we're old enough and presumably mature enough to gauge our physical capabilities and decide for ourselves whether a particular style is suitable.  So, if we're there, we shouldn't expect nor ask for any curriculum changes on our behalf as a result of our age.

Just what I took.  YMMV.


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## Steve

miguksaram said:


> Again good warm ups are the key.  The kids can handle it and the adults need it.   If the adults tend lag behind the kids, just remind them to do what they can and don't get frustrated with trying to keep up with the kids.  Some of the issues I have encountered in the past are parents being parents during class.  It is natural for them to scold their child if they are misbehaving or try to correct the child if they are not 100% correct in executing the technique.  You have to respectfully remind them that it is your duty to handle the kid if they step out of line.  That way they won't feel beat up by having two adults correcting them, scolding them, or whatever.
> 
> Another issue is to make it a mix of fun with a mix of stern learning.  Even though they intentionally sign up knowing that kids will be there, adults still want some serious lessons as opposed to more light hearted fun that you might have in a kids' class.  So I would recommend repetition of techniques disguised in different drills.  This will keep it interesting for the kids while adults get some good lessons as well and still keep the learning at a normal fun level.
> 
> Be sure to switch up partners for drills.  Don't feel you have to stick the kid with one of their own parents all the time.


When you guys say "kids" what do you mean?


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## MaxiMe

miguksaram said:


> Again good warm ups are the key. The kids can handle it and the adults need it.  If the adults tend lag behind the kids, just remind them to do what they can and don't get frustrated with trying to keep up with the kids. Some of the issues I have encountered in the past are parents being parents during class. It is natural for them to scold their child if they are misbehaving or try to correct the child if they are not 100% correct in executing the technique. You have to respectfully remind them that it is your duty to handle the kid if they step out of line. That way they won't feel beat up by having two adults correcting them, scolding them, or whatever.
> 
> Another issue is to make it a mix of fun with a mix of stern learning. Even though they intentionally sign up knowing that kids will be there, adults still want some serious lessons as opposed to more light hearted fun that you might have in a kids' class. So I would recommend repetition of techniques disguised in different drills. This will keep it interesting for the kids while adults get some good lessons as well and still keep the learning at a normal fun level.
> 
> Be sure to switch up partners for drills. Don't feel you have to stick the kid with one of their own parents all the time.


I might add not to partner siblings together. And we try not to parnter parents with their own kids when possible. Also Announce to the kids at the start (so the parents hear it). She/He is not your  Mom/Dad for the next X minutes


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## decepticon

I am in a mixed age class, with all levels and also an advanced class with just higher belts.

One physical thing that I think really helps me that I haven't seen mentioned here is post workout stretching. I definitely have more soreness if I don't do a short routine of stretching after class. I also think it helps me improve my flexibility to stretch again after all my muscles are well warmed up. On a more "mental" note, I used to have a great memory, but now my memory is shot. I do have a lot more difficulty remembering long, complicated moves. So lots of repetition is helpful to me in that respect.

Occasionally some of the black belts - much younger than me - will teach the class. The main thing I don't like about that is that some of the BBs don't have a very commanding presence. I am there to be taught and I want taught! When I step out onto the mat, I don't care about a person's age, I care whether they are more knowledgeable than me and are willing to help me improve. I wish that in that situation, they would show me less old-lady respect and more intermediate-student command and correction. I won't crumble into a teary eyed mess if they yell at me to get my blocks up higher. I don't want them to let me continue to do something incorrectly just to avoid the embarrassment of having them point out my flaws in class. We all know I am a middle aged soccer mom type, so now let's move on to more knife disarms.

I will be honest though, we are just starting to learn some of the major throws and I am a little afraid of how my body will be able to handle that. So I would love to get plenty of preparatory information, break fall practice, and also hear whether my instructor thinks I can handle it. I have just recently moved up from beginner to intermediate so need to feel my way a little bit to reassure myself that I am equal to the task. The sparring is harder and more complicated, but I do think I can do it, if I am able to approach it more slowly and mindfully.


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## lifespantkd

decepticon said:


> One physical thing that I think really helps me that I haven't seen mentioned here is post workout stretching. I definitely have more soreness if I don't do a short routine of stretching after class. I also think it helps me improve my flexibility to stretch again after all my muscles are well warmed up.



I agree that regularly stretching after really being warmed up through a good practice session yields better results than only stretching during warm ups before the practice session. I do both. The first to prepare my joints and muscles for impending activity and the second to improve my flexibility in the long run. I think there's more protection from injury by engaging in the two stretching sessions.

Cynthia


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## ralphmcpherson

lifespantkd said:


> I agree that regularly stretching after really being warmed up through a good practice session yields better results than only stretching during warm ups before the practice session. I do both. The first to prepare my joints and muscles for impending activity and the second to improve my flexibility in the long run. I think there's more protection from injury by engaging in the two stretching sessions.
> 
> Cynthia


A good knowledge of stretching and how it works is very important. Stretching requirements differ greatly from one physical exercise to another. There is static stretching and dynamic stretching and knowing the difference and when to use which is aslo very important. Also, being aware of things that decrease flexibility. Riding a bike, for instance, is not good at all for flexibility and can undo your hardwork. Thomas Kurz's books opened my mind up to stretching and the fact that stretching required for one physical activity can differ greatly from another. Most people just walk in the dojo and do the same stretches they learnt playing football in highschool.


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## lifespantkd

ralphmcpherson said:


> A good knowledge of stretching and how it works is very important. Stretching requirements differ greatly from one physical exercise to another. There is static stretching and dynamic stretching and knowing the difference and when to use which is aslo very important. Also, being aware of things that decrease flexibility. Riding a bike, for instance, is not good at all for flexibility and can undo your hardwork. Thomas Kurz's books opened my mind up to stretching and the fact that stretching required for one physical activity can differ greatly from another. Most people just walk in the dojo and do the same stretches they learnt playing football in highschool.



Thank you for the book referral! I just requested it from my local library. What do you think of the information on stretching in Ultimate Flexibility: Stretching for Martial Arts and in Martial Arts after 40--both by Sang H. Kim? Are you familiar with them? He talks about different types of stretching and the need to customize stretching to the actual physical activity you wish to perform, too.

Cynthia


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## Steve

I have the first one and it's very good.  


Sent using Tapatalk.  Please ignore typos.


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## MariaK

I'm a blue belt in TKD, close to 40. In my opinion, the mixed classes (kids and adults) are the worst. Like in today's class in a blue belt "subgoup" (3 adults and 2 kids of around 7-8 years old), we were learning a new poomsae. Kids were breaking disipline all the time, distracting the instructor, adults were standing and waiting while the instructor shouted at kids. 

Probably, one more recommendation to adult group who start over the age of 20 : I would like to hear additional (respectful but sincere) advice on the improvement of general physical abilities. I see a lot of overweight adults (including soccer moms and dads) who come once per week for a 50 minute class to join their kids for a mixed class. Well, it's a straight road to all possible injuries. Instructors do not tell people directly that they need rigorous cross-training IN ADDITION to training of technical skills in TKD. If you are not a former athlete it's very hard to figure out on your own what other exercises you need and what muscle groups to target etc.


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## StudentCarl

MariaK said:


> I'm a blue belt in TKD, close to 40. In my opinion, the mixed classes (kids and adults) are the worst. Like in today's class in a blue belt "subgoup" (3 adults and 2 kids of around 7-8 years old), we were learning a new poomsae. Kids were breaking disipline all the time, distracting the instructor, adults were standing and waiting while the instructor shouted at kids.
> 
> Probably, one more recommendation to adult group who start over the age of 20 : I would like to hear additional (respectful but sincere) advice on the improvement of general physical abilities. I see a lot of overweight adults (including soccer moms and dads) who come once per week for a 50 minute class to join their kids for a mixed class. Well, it's a straight road to all possible injuries. Instructors do not tell people directly that they need rigorous cross-training IN ADDITION to training of technical skills in TKD. If you are not a former athlete it's very hard to figure out on your own what other exercises you need and what muscle groups to target etc.



The best advice is to try to get to class more than once per week so your body will adapt more. Taekwondo is an excellent, progressive fitness curriculum when managed by a knowledgeable instructor with classes appropriate to your level. A good Taekwondo class should include some of the general fitness you seek.

One good way to supplement your classes is to practice your poomsae daily. Chain your forms and do them non-stop from lowest to highest. I also suggest daily stretching along with squats, lunges, pushups, core/abs work, and any cardio you wish. At a minimum do the stretching and exercises related to whatever are your weak spots. As a blue belt I suspect you already have a sense of what's stronger and weaker for you. Have you asked your instructor?

Carl


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## miguksaram

Steve said:


> I can't speak for Bill, but what I took is that you can presume that if someone comes into your school, regardless of age, they believe themselves to be physically capable of performing the activity.  As adults, we're old enough and presumably mature enough to gauge our physical capabilities and decide for ourselves whether a particular style is suitable.  So, if we're there, we shouldn't expect nor ask for any curriculum changes on our behalf as a result of our age.
> 
> Just what I took.  YMMV.



The last part of what he wrote was indeed insightful.  However, to begin the statement "..I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks..." really had no bearing as an answer.  The OP did not ask if you were 40 years old what martial art would you pick.  The question revolved around how do you teach TKD to older people.

I do not know Bill's personal experience with TKD, but I can tell you that in my 25+ years I have never come across a school that made older people kick above their heads or even forced them to kick high in general.  At "worse" I have come across schools that pushed older people to kick at least waist high, but never forced them too.  So again, while Bill ended his statement nicely the opening remarks were irrelevant to the question.


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## miguksaram

Steve said:


> When you guys say "kids" what do you mean?


Kids in the family classes that I have been around will start about 7 or 8 years of age and go from there.  Parents are usually enrolled mostly for the kids more than themselves.  They do it as a family activity.  My experience is that after a year, maybe two at best, the parents tend to drop out and the kids keep going.


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## Manny

Bill Mattocks said:


> I started at 46, and to be honest (and not to pick on TKD), I do not think I would pick TKD to learn.  It has an emphasis on kicking and especially, high kicks.  While I have been assured by various persons that 'anyone can learn' to kick backwards over their head while spinning 540 degrees, I do not agree.  I know my limitations.  Isshin-Ryu has been the right art for me.  Low kicks, power, absolute brutality.  This, I can do.  I figure you have to play to your strengths and not your weaknesses when you get to a certain age.  I won't ever be an astronaut, but damn I can dig a pretty ditch to lay one down in.



Hi Bill, you are right in some points. I retook TKD at 40 tears old, it was not easy... well it's not easy today either but as I have two 40+ students I try not to kill them in every TKD class, I know their limitations and their strong points.
I have adpated TKD to my needs and it seems my TKD suits well my students, we do power kicks like you do and we try to do head kicks too (not overemphacite in this) and we try to do one ot two spining kicks but that's all. We have remove the flamboyant/speedy/junmping/turning kicks so wondeful TKD have but we have keep the very true and sound techs and we like to improve them a little.

Your karate must suit you very well and believe me I am trying to my tkd siut me well and to my students.

Manny


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## TKDinAK

I'm a 46 year old green belt who first started TKD (ITF) eight months previous, with no prior martial arts training experience.

Because my dojang is a block from where I work, I attend a lot of my school's noon time All Rank Adult classes. We get a few younger teens in this class, but it's mostly people my age or in their 30's and 50's. One thing I like about this class, is that because almost everyone has to go back to their jobs afterward, it's taught more from a technical standpoint. Patterns, self defense, some low impact drills and bag work. Not very much cardio or intense drill work. I also regularily attend advanced classes for a more intense workout, but the noon class lets me work on fine tuning everything.

My instructor is big on stretching beforehand... probably a good 15-20 min of class is stretching and warmup... regardless of whether it's a beginner class or advanced. Warmups are usually sabhangs. Sabhangs are a set of three movements and are done in four direction succession. We have five sabhangs, each with a specific set of movements.

After the stretching and warm ups, i'm ready for anything... including sparring.

Every now and then, if the instructor is busy, he'll have a young BB open class. And almost invariably, the young gun will just jump right into push ups, or squats, or some fairly intensive(for the old folks) cardio drills... with no stretching. I've never mentioned this to the instructor because it doesn't happen all that often. If it did, I would say something. You have a class full of 30-40-50 year olds of varying rank... there'd better be some pre-stretching involved. JMO.

So, from my limited experience, in both TKD and being athletically involved, I would say the most important part is a good pre stretch and warmup. After that, common sense should be the rule.... such as expecting 40 year olds to do 50 jump spinning kicks on the bag might not be a great idea.


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## Gwai Lo Dan

TKDinAK said:


> Every now and then, if the instructor is busy, he'll have a young BB open class. And almost invariably, the young gun will just jump right into push ups, or squats, or some fairly intensive(for the old folks) cardio drills... with no stretching.



To me, pushups, squats, and cardio don't require stretching, so I personally would not disagree with the instructor on the lack of stretching before those.  I am very wary, however, of high kicks at the beginning of the class if I haven't tested my flexibility that day (by doing a few moderate rising kicks for instance or side straddle).


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## andyjeffries

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> To me, pushups, squats, and cardio don't require stretching, so I personally would not disagree with the instructor on the lack of stretching before those.  I am very wary, however, of high kicks at the beginning of the class if I haven't tested my flexibility that day (by doing a few moderate rising kicks for instance or side straddle).



I absolutely agree, pushups, squats, etc are limited range of motion exercises and are therefore useful to warm-up body temperature before stretching.


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## andyjeffries

TKDinAK said:


> My instructor is big on stretching beforehand... probably a good 15-20 min of class is stretching and warmup... regardless of whether it's a beginner class or advanced. Warmups are usually sabhangs. Sabhangs are a set of three movements and are done in four direction succession. We have five sabhangs, each with a specific set of movements.
> 
> After the stretching and warm ups, i'm ready for anything... including sparring.



I'm interested on more description of your stretching.

There is a lot of scientific evidence that says static stretching (generally sitting down and holding a stretched position) is not effective and can reduce performance and increase risk of injuries.

However, most Taekwondo instructors are still stuck in the stretching methods of the 60s/70s when we didn't know better.


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## TKDinAK

Just a sampling of a normal pre-stretch ritual...

Arm Windmills.
Arm across the body, both arms
Arm over head and touching back, both arms
Head rotations
Hip rotations
Knee roations
Standing spread legs stretch down the middle
Grab an ankle, nose to knee... switch
Squat stretches
Stretching from a lunge position, both legs
Regular Splits
Knee bent, leg stretched out to the side, switch
Sitting stretches, heels pulled into crotch, then halfway out
Legs out straight, grab toes, nose to knees
Standing stretch kicks, keep leg straight and kick above head

There are others and variances on the ones I listed above... but this is a good sampling.


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## SPX

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> To me, pushups, squats, and cardio don't require stretching, so I personally would not disagree with the instructor on the lack of stretching before those.  I am very wary, however, of high kicks at the beginning of the class if I haven't tested my flexibility that day (by doing a few moderate rising kicks for instance or side straddle).



Some think that you really need to get warmed up before stretching.  Personally, I think that the data is mixed.

In my TKD class though, there is no stretching at the beginning of class . . . only at the end.


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## andyjeffries

TKDinAK said:


> Just a sampling of a normal pre-stretch ritual...
> 
> Arm Windmills.
> Arm across the body, both arms
> Arm over head and touching back, both arms
> Head rotations
> Hip rotations
> Knee roations
> Standing spread legs stretch down the middle
> Grab an ankle, nose to knee... switch
> Squat stretches
> Stretching from a lunge position, both legs
> Regular Splits
> Knee bent, leg stretched out to the side, switch
> Sitting stretches, heels pulled into crotch, then halfway out
> Legs out straight, grab toes, nose to knees
> Standing stretch kicks, keep leg straight and kick above head
> 
> There are others and variances on the ones I listed above... but this is a good sampling.



That seems like a good warmup, nice and dynamic (except for the seated stretches).  Given that you refer to this as a "pre-stretch" what do you then do for stretching?


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## lifespantkd

Stretching protocols to accomplish different purposes--and the research supporting the rationale behind them--can be found in Stretching Scientifically by Thomas Kurz. It explains what outcomes various types of stretching are useful for and when in a workout different types of stretching exercises are best placed. Ultimate Fitness Through Martial Arts by Sang H. Kim is also a good resource.

Cynthia


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## TKDinAK

Sorry... I meant pre-class stretch... as opposed to post-class. We sometimes do post-class stretches, but only after a very strenuous session. My instructor does always suggest we stay after and stretch, though.

I have no other experience with formal stretching techniques than what I have learned in class... but I do feel like I am thoroughly stretched and ready for whatever is thrown at me.


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## dancingalone

I'll second the Kurz book.  After becoming aware of it through this board (Thanks, MT!) I read it and gradually changed how we stretch and warm up in my karate school.  I saw real flexibility breakthroughs in the students that adopted the suggestions seriously, and I wish I had had access to such information when I was a beginner.


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## lifespantkd

dancingalone said:


> I'll second the Kurz book. After becoming aware of it through this board (Thanks, MT!) I read it and gradually changed how we stretch and warm up in my karate school. I saw real flexibility breakthroughs in the students that adopted the suggestions seriously, and I wish I had had access to such information when I was a beginner.



I see flexibility breakthroughs, too. Nothing like a research-based approach reflecting what actually works based on human physiology instead of something along the lines of "what we've always done."

Cynthia


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