# self therapy



## Gary Crawford (Feb 26, 2007)

Hello all, I am taking the time to post this first, to help myself get past this,second to help anyone who might have had a simular experience. This last Friday(Feb 23,2007), I was at work, selling cars at a Toyota store here in East Tennessee. I had been working on selling a used p/u to this guy who was 49 yrs old,sorta bikerish looking fellow that had been through some major back surgery and was obviously in a lot of pain. After all the financing was worked out and he was about to get in his new truck and leave with it, he suddenly collasped and was violently convulsing. I tried to get his attention, but his eyes were in a fixed position and his jaw locked closed. His pulse was weak and irratic. I imeadiatly started chest compressions and mouth to mouth when his jaw relaxed a minute or so later. He did start to gaspe for air for a brief moment but stopped brething completely. I kept up the CPR until the ambulance finally got there. He was D.O.A. at the hospital. I know I did my best to save him,but it's still hard to deal with days later, I can't seem to get it out of my mind. Lots of people have tried to console me saying that most people wouldn't have tried to save him, but I don't believe that. I don't think I did anymore that anyone else who just happenned to be there at that moment.


----------



## Mark L (Feb 26, 2007)

You said it yourself, you did your best to save the man.  How can you expect more than that from yourself?  IMHO, you should be commended for doing what you did.  I'd suggest that it is OK to feel bad that the man died, but let yourself off of the hook about the outcome, it might have been exactly the same  if it occured in a state of the art ER.


----------



## Carol (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary you truly did a lot.  Even someone with the desire to save another person may not have the skills or the clear head to do that.

You really are a hero Gary.  You did everything you possibly could to help the man.   He didn't make it.  You tried your best.  The fellow's pain and suffering is gone now, and he passed over knowing someone out there cared enough to save him.   Not all of us will be so lucky.

Great job!


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Feb 26, 2007)

Previous employment had me as first on scene for a number of accidents, seniors collapsing, and the like. In some cases, we used an "MGM" code..."act like you're trying heroic measures for the sake of family members watching, even though we know this dude is gone...let the doctor's at the hospital pronounce".

In other cases, however, we were there for their last breaths. It's a wierd feeling, having someone slip away under your watch, trying to help them. I wish I could say "it'll pass", but it never really does. The passage of time will diminish it some, but specifics about these memories will stay with you for the rest of your life, and can be triggered by the wierdest things...the smell of an aftershave in a grocery store that's the same as the aftershave worn by that downed motorcyclist we couldn't find all the pieces for, and so on.

The best consolation I have found for my own wierd nights is that, when push came to shove, *you were a man who acted, instead of watched*. The only thing freakier then dealing with the memory of trying to help someone whose number was up, would be NOT trying to help someone whose time maybe hadn't actually come yet, but for the effort.

It will always be wierd, Gary. But *you tried what you knew to try, and that defines the character of a man more clearly than any intent, ot justification of inaction*. It's not much solace when you see his face in your mind, but it's a frame of reference to at least add meaning to the event, and compartmentalize it later in a way that allows you to keep on keeping on.

Be good to yourself,

Dave Crouch, DC
kenpochiro@yahoo.com
and if you need someone to speak to...714-335-4885


----------



## Kacey (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary, you did the best you could, and way more than most people would do - even so, I can see how that might not feel like enough to you; despite your best efforts, it wasn't enough.  Sometimes nothing is enough - people die in hospitals all the time.  You gave this man a much better chance than he'd have had any other way - and even as he died, he knew that someone was there with him, helping - which is heroic in itself.  Please don't beat yourself up over this - you did great, and have the respect of all who saw, heard about, or read about your efforts.  :asian:


----------



## MSTCNC (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary,

The simple fact is, for whatever reason, his body gave up on him. Early access to CPR is a VITAL part of the chain of survival... and you should be proud of yourself for taking action... I am!

As someone who comes from an EMS background... trust me... most people NEVER act upon their training... simply because they are so caught up in what is happening in the moment. In layman&#8217;s terms&#8230; they freak out!

Early CPR is vital; however, without early defibrillation with an AED or "shock box" within the first 10-minutes after an arrest... survival is a slim chance at best...

Knowledge of how to do something is potential power... ACTING on that knowledge is TRUE power...

You acted upon your knowledge... and did something that few people would be comfortable doing outside of the sterile environment (and mannequin) of a CPR training class...

It wasn't your efforts that caused this man to pass away... it was your actions that helped get him as far as the hospital... and it's because of you that his life didn't end then and there at the dealership...

Will you forget this anytime soon... no... I'm sorry to say that, in all likelihood, you won't. As someone who's done countless CPR's and defibrillations... you never forget your first CPR patient... your last... or those in-between that you loose... or any patient for that matter...

In any event... you have my respect for your efforts, Sir! :asian:

Whether or not he survived... you tried to help him the best that you knew how. For that, you should feel good... so take solice in that fact...

Take it day-by-day, Brother... it DOES get easier...

Your Brother in the arts,

Andrew


----------



## Drac (Feb 26, 2007)

Been there..*You acted* while others watched...You *did* your best, don't dwell on it...That's all I can add as the others posts have said it better than I..


----------



## Bigshadow (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary Crawford said:


> Hello all, I am taking the time to post this first, to help myself get past this,second to help anyone who might have had a simular experience. This last Friday(Feb 23,2007), I was at work, selling cars at a Toyota store here in East Tennessee. I had been working on selling a used p/u to this guy who was 49 yrs old,sorta bikerish looking fellow that had been through some major back surgery and was obviously in a lot of pain. After all the financing was worked out and he was about to get in his new truck and leave with it, he suddenly collasped and was violently convulsing. I tried to get his attention, but his eyes were in a fixed position and his jaw locked closed. His pulse was weak and irratic. I imeadiatly started chest compressions and mouth to mouth when his jaw relaxed a minute or so later. He did start to gaspe for air for a brief moment but stopped brething completely. I kept up the CPR until the ambulance finally got there. He was D.O.A. at the hospital. I know I did my best to save him,but it's still hard to deal with days later, I can't seem to get it out of my mind. Lots of people have tried to console me saying that most people wouldn't have tried to save him, but I don't believe that. I don't think I did anymore that anyone else who just happenned to be there at that moment.



It is OK to feel bad, but don't go hard on yourself.  You did all you could do.  

Reminded me of something that happened to me a few years ago.  I came across an auto accident on a highway late at night (no car in sight, but mine) my son and I were on our way home.  After illuminating the scene with my jeep lights (hoping someone would see it if they passed by, as I had left my cell phone at home), I began looking for people.  Fortunately another motorist happened along and went for help while I stayed.

A young man and woman (early 20s) were thrown from the car both had severe trauma, I frantically tried to remember all that I could from my first responders course when I was teen.  I tried to talk to them and let them know someone was here and help was on the way.  Both were alive but could not move.  I alternated between the two.  I coudn't risk moving them.  I remember as I talked to both they responded or tried to communicate and were breathing.  The woman had severe internal injuries and bleeding  and bad head trauma from what I could hear and see.  Anyway, the medics arrived not too long afterwards, and took over.   The young woman died at the scene.  She couldn't hang on any longer, I suppose.  The young man was in a coma for months following that and had brain damage.  

For the longest time, it bothered me that the woman died.  I mean she responded to me when I tried to reassure her someone was on the way and then to die at the scene after help arrives.  I often played the entire event over in my mind wondering if there were something else I could have done.


----------



## shesulsa (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary,

Another member on the board posted a similar experience - I won't say who, I'll let that person come forward if s/he's going to.

CPR saves lives - but only a few ... and those few are worth the effort.  Really, they're ALL worth the effort.  YOU ACTED - I know everyone else is saying it, but ... YOU DID!

You got to touch his life in the last few seconds - if you're a faithful man, that's a rarity the universe, or the God/Goddess, the all-that-is or whatever you call it reserves for those of us who are strong enough to see it.  And sometimes we don't know we're strong enough until we get through it, feel the pain, and come out on the other side realizing that we could get through it.

Hang in there, Gary.  Keep putting one foot in front of the other and make this mean something special in your life.

:asian:


----------



## Xue Sheng (Feb 26, 2007)

You did all that you could do and more than many would have.

As shesulsa said 





> CPR saves lives - but only a few.



I have had friends of mine that are EMTs tell me the same thing and I have seen it when I worked in hospitals and heard MDs and RNs say the same thing. 

You did good and you did the best you could have done and that is all anyone can expect.


----------



## grydth (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary - you at least tried to save this man. That is more than many would have done in these dreadful times. 

Please understand that in some cases even experienced Emergency Room physicians and specialized surgeons cannot save somebody. Sometimes the physical damage is just too extensive and it is their time to die. 

You know, those doctors frequently feel awful, too. That is not a sign of failure - it is a sign of caring and commitment.... like you have.

I hope you find peace on this.... you deserve it.


----------



## jdinca (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary, of course you're going to feel the way you do. We all feel that way when we do everything possible to help somebody to no avail. I've been involved in EMS for many years. When I was a paramedic, I experienced the exact scenario you described on a number of occasions. Guess what? Even with every tool at my disposal that would be available in an ER, the patient still usually died. When it's their time, it's their time. Take comfort in the fact that you did everything you could, even though it would have been just as acceptable in society if you had just called 911 and had done nothing else.

My hat's off to you  brother, you tried to make a difference. :asian:


----------



## Tames D (Feb 26, 2007)

Gary, you have my utmost respect for your efforts. I'm sure his family feels the same way.


----------



## jks9199 (Feb 26, 2007)

Echoing the others -- you did a great job simply by taking appropriate action and doing your best.

The simple truth is that CPR, while a vital and important skill and essential element in saving lives, doesn't save that many lives.  Even CPR combined with an AED only saves a tiny percentage of those who go down outside of a hospital (and it's not much greater in a hospital).  TV shows do a disservice when they show someone doing a couple of cycles of CPR (if that), and the victim is up and chatting by the time they get to the hospital.

Take comfort knowing that you tried, and that his family knows someone tried.  It's much more than many would have done.

One more thing...  Don't be ashamed to get help and counseling.  Your local community mental health services board (or equivalent), employee assistance program, the Red Cross and/or American Heart Association, or maybe even the EMS service can probably refer you to someone.  You've got a very good chance to deal with at least some PTSD type effects from this.  Professional help can go a long way in keeping you on an even keel.


----------



## Shaderon (Feb 27, 2007)

Gary, as all the others have said, at least you DID something, the majority of people would just stand there in shock., In a road accident I was involved in last year, I found a man not breathing in his car, someone had removed his spectacles and left him, people were stood around more interested in their own cuts and bruises and he was slowly suffocating as his head was at the wrong angle.  I did what I could but alone I could only hold his head up and he died as the ambulance arrived.  

When asked how they want to die, people very often say they want to go painlessly but don't want to be alone.

You were that man's angel in his last minutes.   He was going to go anyway, his time was up, but he didn't die alone thanks to you.  

Healing is a personal thing, it'll hurt for a long time, but talk about it as much as you need to, it'll help, and do get professional help, Post Traumatic Stress is no joke.


----------



## bluemtn (Feb 27, 2007)

You did all that you could do, Gary.  It was just his time to go, and there's nothing you could've done.  For one, you're not a medical professional, and this didn't happen in a hospital.  

For me, I had a very stressful week last week- nothing in comparison to what you just went through, though.  I wasn't getting the sleep I needed because of it, either.  Two of the 3 three, I decided weren't worth worrying with, so this week I've decided is fresh and new.  The other I'll deal with when and if it materializes.  However, certain things you can't just change your attitude with, it seems.  For example, death, and everyone also handles stress differently.  Maybe if you don't feel better soon, seek counselling or a physician.  Stress affects us not just mentally, but physically too, by making us sick.

My warmest wishes for you, Gary.


----------



## Gary Crawford (Feb 27, 2007)

Thank you all for your support, I do feel alot better after all of the truly kind comments. I'm sure the constant reminder of the event will lesson as time goes on. With Gods help, I will be just fine. Thank you again to everyone.  Gary


----------



## Kacey (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks for letting us know how you're doing - and please, get help if you need it - from a therapist, a friend, a pastor, whomever is appropriate for you.


----------



## Carol (Feb 27, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Thanks for letting us know how you're doing - and please, get help if you need it - from a therapist, a friend, a pastor, whomever is appropriate for you.



What Kacey said.  Don't be afraid to reach out if you need it.   There are lots of folks that are willing to help but you need to extend a hand to let them know you need a hand back in return.   

I'm sure there are a few MT'ers that are praying for you Gary.  God bless you for what you did.  :asian:


----------



## Gary Crawford (Feb 28, 2007)

Again, Thank you and God bless all of you here at MT for comming to my aide. Some of mr Phelps family members came to see me Saterday. One of then said that Mark is probably in heavin laughing at all of us fools still stuck here on earth. I keep thinking about what he said,and I know feel somewhat foolish for letting it upset me.


----------



## MSTCNC (Feb 28, 2007)

Gary Crawford said:


> Some of mr Phelps family members came to see me Saterday. One of then said that Mark is probably in heavin laughing at all of us fools still stuck here on earth. I keep thinking about what he said,and I know feel somewhat foolish for letting it upset me.



Gary,

Being upset over it was simply your way of working through it... nothing to feel foolish about, Bro...

Glad they stopped in to see you... although I'm sure it was somewhat emotional... I'm sure it also gave EVERYONE some closure...

Your Brother in the arts,

Andrew


----------



## Kacey (Feb 28, 2007)

MSTCND said:


> Gary,
> 
> Being upset over it was simply your way of working through it... nothing to feel foolish about, Bro...
> 
> Glad they stopped in to see you... although I'm sure it was somewhat emotional... I'm sure it also gave EVERYONE some closure...



Can't really add to that.  You do whatever you need to do to feel comfortable with yourself - that's all that matters.


----------



## Gufbal1982 (Mar 1, 2007)

Gary Crawford said:


> Hello all, I am taking the time to post this first, to help myself get past this,second to help anyone who might have had a simular experience. This last Friday(Feb 23,2007), I was at work, selling cars at a Toyota store here in East Tennessee. I had been working on selling a used p/u to this guy who was 49 yrs old,sorta bikerish looking fellow that had been through some major back surgery and was obviously in a lot of pain. After all the financing was worked out and he was about to get in his new truck and leave with it, he suddenly collasped and was violently convulsing. I tried to get his attention, but his eyes were in a fixed position and his jaw locked closed. His pulse was weak and irratic. I imeadiatly started chest compressions and mouth to mouth when his jaw relaxed a minute or so later. He did start to gaspe for air for a brief moment but stopped brething completely. I kept up the CPR until the ambulance finally got there. He was D.O.A. at the hospital. I know I did my best to save him,but it's still hard to deal with days later, I can't seem to get it out of my mind. Lots of people have tried to console me saying that most people wouldn't have tried to save him, but I don't believe that. I don't think I did anymore that anyone else who just happenned to be there at that moment.



Gary, you did your best to save him.  You did what a real martial arts master would do.  You tried to help him...if you let him just lie there, you would have hurt him.  You said it yourself...you did your best to save him.  That's all that you can do.  Don't feel bad...you did the right thing and that's all that matters.


----------



## Shaderon (Mar 1, 2007)

Gary Crawford said:


> Again, Thank you and God bless all of you here at MT for comming to my aide. Some of mr Phelps family members came to see me Saterday. One of then said that Mark is probably in heavin laughing at all of us fools still stuck here on earth. I keep thinking about what he said,and I know feel somewhat foolish for letting it upset me.


 
Gary, it's time for me to thank YOU.   That statement makes me feel better about the guy I tried to help last year.


----------



## shesulsa (Mar 12, 2007)

How ya doin' Gary?


----------

