# Tai chi..bagua..hsing yi..enlighten me please?



## Maint (Dec 30, 2015)

A local martial arts school I'm thinking of attending teaches hapkido 3 days a week which I'm interested in...two days a week they also teach the following (paraphrased)... 'Single and two person armed and unarmed yang style forms and basic sun style for those with arthritis or joint problems. Also Bagua and hsing yi' ....What exactly is all this? I'm more interested in the hapkido but if my 42 year old body can't take it this would be the next choice.  Can you please explain as I'm not familiar with the internal arts except viewing it as an old persons art, not being biased just being honest.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2015)

Taijiquan

Baguazhang

Xingyiquan

And I would never classify Xingyiquan as an "old persons art" if trained correctly. For that matter Baguazhang and Taijiquan are not "old person arts either, if trained correctly.


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## mograph (Dec 30, 2015)

It's difficult to describe these arts without the caveat that your experience would depend completely on the skill of your teacher and club. (Note how Xue Sheng as included the caveat "if trained correctly.") But I'll try, given my limited experience with the internal arts.

IMO, a bad experience would focus on specific choreography over general principles. As an example, the three arts (and liuhebafa, apparently) have a common principle of unified body mechanics where the practitioner expresses force in a way that is distributed through the body, from floor to fist, in a way. (Of course, fists are only a part of it.)

Separately, the three arts could be described using a metaphor (according to one of my teachers): when interacting with an opponent, a Taijiquan (Tai Chi) artist is a rubber ball, a Xingyiquan (Hsing-I) artist is a wrecking ball, and a Baguazhang (Pakua) artist is a spinning top.

But as I wrote, it all depends on the club. Check out some videos on the web, but by all means visit the club. Find out the difference between an advanced and beginner class.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2015)

I classify them as:

Taijiquan has infinite patience
Baguazhang has patience
Xingyiquan has no patience


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## Maint (Dec 30, 2015)

I hope I've not offended with my old persons remark. It's just how society normally perceives these arts. I appreciate the answers but can you break it down into laymans terms. I mean basically what does each art focus on. For example I read once that bagua has something to do with circles and hsing is straight linear movement. And last but not least, are they effective for self defense ....if trained properly.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2015)

Maint said:


> I hope I've not offended with my old persons remark. It's just how society normally perceives these arts. I appreciate the answers but can you break it down into laymans terms. I mean basically what does each art focus on. For example I read once that bagua has something to do with circles and hsing is straight linear movement. And last but not least, are they effective for self defense ....if trained properly.



No offense taken

You are asking for a rather long lecture; Bagua is based on circles but can go straight. Xingyi looks very linear but has circles

And if trained properly they are good for Self-defense. But neither is a quick fix if that is what you are looking for and both take serious training that at times can be painful


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## mograph (Dec 30, 2015)

Nope, no offense taken. 
My take? 
I found Bagua very complicated, not easily grasped by my borderline-ADD mind. I'm better at fewer movements that can be studied in finer and finer increments. Note that I didn't say "unnecessarily complicated," it's just too much for _me_ to take in and keep track of.
I liked my exposure to Xingyi, but the classes ended before I could get going. IMO, Xingyi is not good if you want to do really complicated, attractive forms. If you learn some forms and think "is that all?" it's not for you. Of course, Xingyi has forms (right, XS? Ba Shi?) but you should research them.
I keep coming back to Taijiquan: for me, it has the right mix of broad and deep. 

Note that all of these are broad and deep, but may not appear so at the beginning.

As for self-defence? Yes, as XS wrote. But you have to be patient -- it could take a very long time before you could defend yourself. Also, IMO, to defend yourself, you'd need a lot of practice in situations where you're under threat, so make sure the class would give you that. I wouldn't count on solo forms or push hands to give you that ability to handle an aggressive knife or fist in the real world.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 30, 2015)

mograph said:


> I found Bagua very complicated, not easily grasped by my borderline-ADD mind



Agreed

To me Baguazhang is a style that is very good for fighting, actually good at fighting multiple opponents, BUT, I absolutely could not train anything else if I were going to train it seriously. There is WAY to much going on in Bagua to take it lightly or to allow some other style to creep in and confuse things


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