# EXTRA: Jimmy Swaggert back in the news!!



## rmcrobertson (Sep 23, 2004)

This week, the Rev. Jimmy Swaggert sorta kinda apologized for a comment he made last Sunday as he was preaching....in the course of speaking against gay marriage, the Rev remarked that if any gay person so much as looked at him, "that way," he'd kill 'em and tell God that he was dead. Wild applause ensued.

The Rev now claims that he never meant anything bad, and that he's used the tag-line, "I'd kill 'em and tell God they were dead," hundreds of times.

Lovely. I feel much better now, don't you?


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## Xequat (Sep 23, 2004)

Wow.  I caught the tail end of that story on the radio and thought I must have been imagining things.  He really said that?  Jeez, it's one thing to be anti-gay, but to kill them and tell God they died?  Kinda sick.  I mean, I enjoy hanging out with girls who like guys, so why not hang out with a guy who likes guys, too?  I might think it's bad taste, but who are we to judge?


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 23, 2004)

Wow, he must have taken a lot of heat for that comment for him to have apologized for it.


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## Flatlander (Sep 23, 2004)

Had he done so in Canada he'd be arrested for hate crimes.  And I would have applauded.


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 23, 2004)

I just can't understand hating people that much - who have never harmed you or the people you love.  While ostensibly preaching the message of God's love.

People are insane.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 23, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> Had he done so in Canada he'd be arrested for hate crimes. And I would have applauded.


I'd like to clarify about hate crimes.  Do they basically make the punishment tougher for crimes that are motivated by hatred of particular social/political groups?  For example, you get longer jail sentence if you murder someone because of their race, as opposed to because they stole something?

If this belongs in another thread or is too off-topic, my apologies.


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## Xequat (Sep 23, 2004)

Naw, it probably only belongs in another thread if we want to discuss its merits or something, but asking for a definition should be OK, I think.  And, yeah, that's pretty much the definition.  If I light a burning cross on a white person's lawn, I might just get arrested for vandalism or arson, but if it's in a black person's lawn, then it would also be a hate crime, as far as I understand it.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 23, 2004)

I see.  Sounds perfectly in line with due process and everything.  Thank you.  :asian:


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## Flatlander (Sep 23, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> I'd like to clarify about hate crimes. Do they basically make the punishment tougher for crimes that are motivated by hatred of particular social/political groups? For example, you get longer jail sentence if you murder someone because of their race, as opposed to because they stole something?
> 
> If this belongs in another thread or is too off-topic, my apologies.


In regards to punishment, the sentence is, of course, determined by the judge. Generally, there will be a number of factors that are taken into account when determining an appropriate sentence, hopefully motivation by hatred being one of them. There is no law specifically dealing with that, though, to the best of my knowledge. 

On this page, I was able to find a reasonably clear definition of what constitutes a hate crime in Canada. A few noteworthy excerpts:



[font=Verdana,Arial]





> [font=Verdana,Arial]Criminal Code of Canada: Hate Provisions - Summary[/font]
> 
> [font=Verdana,Arial]"Hate" is defined as a crime under two parts of Canadas Criminal Code: sections 318 and 319. To convict anyone under the Code, very specific proof is required: both of the criminal act itself, and of the intention or motivation to commit the crime. It isnt enough that someone has said something hateful or untrue; the courts will only find someone guilty if they contravened the Code exactly, and if they did it deliberately.[/font]​​[font=Verdana,Arial]*Section 318: Advocating Genocide*[/font]​
> [font=Verdana,Arial]The criminal act of "advocating genocide" is defined as supporting or arguing for the killing of members of an "identifiable group"  persons distinguished by their colour, race, religion or ethnic origin. The intention or motivation would be the destruction of members of the targeted group. Any person who promotes genocide is guilty of an indictable offence, and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.[/font]​
> ...


[/font]​​


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm curious.... Would it be possible for someone in the US to bring a case against Swaggart for encouraging or preaching about committing hate crimes?  I'm assuming the case would be more effective if coming from a gay/bisexual person or group.  

I'd love to see that.


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 23, 2004)

Hey, here's a mildly-weird idea...if you birned a cross on a "white," family's lawn, and you could be shown to have done it because you thought they were black, you'd probably be guilty of "hate crime."

Personally, this isn't the first time for the Rev Jimmy. Wasn't he the guy listening adoringly while Pat Robertson (name sucks) went off to the effect that 9/11 had been God's judgment for lesbians, lawyers and the ACLU among others?


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 23, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> Personally, this isn't the first time for the Rev Jimmy. Wasn't he the guy listening adoringly while Pat Robertson (name sucks) went off to the effect that 9/11 had been God's judgment for lesbians, lawyers and the ACLU among others?


Shnikes.  I'll have to find the reports on this - and I don't say that because I don't believe you, but because I'd like to read this.  

Again - people are insane.


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 23, 2004)

Since I'm feeling guilty about the whole playground thing (well, guilty and a tad pissed), I looked it up. 

It wasn't Swaggert, but Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen." 

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system. 

Source: http:/www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm


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## heretic888 (Sep 23, 2004)

Careful, Rob, I'm startin' to get that warm-and-fuzzy feeling.

It never ceases to amaze me the sheer number of Christians that blatantly ignore that simple injunction: "Love thy neighbor." Or, to be even more profound (and, well, Pythagorean): "Love thy enemy."

*sigh*


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## shesulsa (Sep 23, 2004)

rmcrobertson, I find it interesting that I generally agree with your point of view on so many things but that the things we disagree on we engage in very heated debate.  Curious.

 I don't like evangelists period.


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 23, 2004)

You all remember that Swaggart was caught with a hooker way back...and apologized to his flock for sinning, etc.

So...I've got a ZIPPY idea.  It is both prurient and perverse in its perfection. 

We get a really convincingly hot drag queen and set up a little sting operation for Jimmy and his jimmy.  We get it all on video and then go public with it.  We'll call it "Operation Blow Against Bigotry".  Some of you might think this idea sucks, and it does in its own unique way...but I think it'd make a point.  

Further, it would bring fame to those of us on Martialtalk who take part in it.  We could sell the video on the internet, or to Larry Flynt.  I might get interviewed by Paula Zahn, even.  My life would then be complete.

What say ye?


Regards,


Steve


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 23, 2004)

Great idea, the only problem is convincing one of the board members to act the role of the drag queen









And my answer is no.


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## Xequat (Sep 23, 2004)

That's a great idea!  Jimmy Swaggert is great...for me to poop on!  That or we could just kill him and tell God that he died.  Just kidding, don't call the secret service.  Heck, for those kinds of laughs, I'll be the guy that dresses up in drag just to set up that jerk.


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 23, 2004)

Hm. Interesting plan...and this IS a martial arts forum, if ya know what I'm saying...


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## Mark Weiser (Sep 23, 2004)

And to think at one time I considered very seriously on attending his Bible College to get into the Ministry. We call that  a near miss.  

Anyway I have found that many Christian Leadership types suffer from some form of Delusional Ideation in regards to the real world and "Christian" mindset. They live and breath different than the rest of us. So I wonder who the real terrorist are these days. In regards to hate speech such as Swaggert, Robertson, Falwell.


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 24, 2004)

Xequat said:
			
		

> That's a great idea!  Jimmy Swaggert is great...for me to poop on!  That or we could just kill him and tell God that he died.  Just kidding, don't call the secret service.  Heck, for those kinds of laughs, I'll be the guy that dresses up in drag just to set up that jerk.




Uh...are you sure you understand what I meant that to entail?  Think oral...not Oral Roberts, more along the lines of Freud and the cigar thing.  Are you catching this?

You SURE you want to dress up in drag?  



Regards,


Steve


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 24, 2004)

Yeah, so how about that "serious discussion of non-martial arts topics"?


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## Brother John (Sep 24, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> This week, the Rev. Jimmy Swaggert sorta kinda apologized for a comment he made last Sunday as he was preaching....in the course of speaking against gay marriage, the Rev remarked that if any gay person so much as looked at him, "that way," he'd kill 'em and tell God that he was dead. Wild applause ensued.
> 
> The Rev now claims that he never meant anything bad, and that he's used the tag-line, "I'd kill 'em and tell God they were dead," hundreds of times.
> 
> Lovely. I feel much better now, don't you?



Remember those old medicine comercials on TV where the actor said, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on Tv"...

Swaggert could say:
"I'm not Really a man of God, but I play one one Tv."




Nice...

Your Brother
John


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## Xequat (Sep 24, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Uh...are you sure you understand what I meant that to entail? Think oral...not Oral Roberts, more along the lines of Freud and the cigar thing. Are you catching this?
> 
> You SURE you want to dress up in drag?


OK, good point.  I just meant I'd put on a wig and dress, but I sure as heck wouldn't go any farther than that.  Just making a point, LOL.

Mark Weiser brought up a good point, too.  I mean, this attitude that Swaggert has the right to override "Thou Shalt Not Kill" in order to follow one verse in Leviticus about homosexuality is the same type of logic that the Middle East extremists use.  Follow what I believe or die.


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## MisterMike (Sep 24, 2004)

Brother John said:
			
		

> Remember those old medicine comercials on TV where the actor said, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on Tv"...
> 
> Swaggert could say:
> "I'm not Really a man of God, but I play one one Tv."
> ...




 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## TonyM. (Sep 24, 2004)

Public warning to jimmy swaggert. If you get within arms reach of me or anyone I know I will consider it assault and deal with you accordingly.


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

HHJH - You have a nice idea - the only potential flaw I see in this is that Eddie Murphy might show up first.  But this could still have its benefits - we could watch Murphy and Swaggart duke it out, then return to our stations and debate and discuss the good and bad points of the fight, what we would do, etcetera.  But that's okay - I'm sure we could all get a ride home from Eddie.


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 24, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> Yeah, so how about that "serious discussion of non-martial arts topics"?




Yes...ahem. Of course.  Sorry.



(snickers...giggles...then passes note in class to Shesulsa and then wads up a spit ball to throw at someone when the teacher isn't looking)



Regards,


Steve


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## Flatlander (Sep 24, 2004)

Hey!  Who did that?!!


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 24, 2004)

*not telling*  (sulk)

(doodles in book and stares out of window.)

When's recess?


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

(gets called on by the teacher)  Pi R Squared.

 (shows Steve's note to Feisty)

 Giggle.

 (scribble something onto same note and passes back to Steve)


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 24, 2004)

Well, I SAW you...No, I don't care what the other kids are doing. Stay after class so I can talk to you...everybody else can go to recess.


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

(raises eyebrows and looks around at everyone else)

 (suddenly, the entire class lets out a roaring...)

 BWAAAAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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## Flatlander (Sep 24, 2004)

OK, just for that, everybody will be writing a report on why Jimmy Swaggart is an irrelevant bum, 400 words, and have it posted to this thread first thing in the morning.  This will be worth 15% of your final grade.  OR, you can all tell me who threw that spitball.  The choice is yours, people.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Sep 24, 2004)

Wow, a classroom with at least three teachers in it.  Now THAT'S efficiency.


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

I dunno - maybe one of them should go pull recess duty - ya never know who's out there, these days.


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## Lisa (Sep 24, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> OK, just for that, everybody will be writing a report on why Jimmy Swaggart is an irrelevant bum, 400 words, and have it posted to this thread first thing in the morning. This will be worth 15% of your final grade. OR, you can all tell me who threw that spitball. The choice is yours, people.


THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!! (whiny teenage voice)

I wasn't doing anything... I was sitting back here minding my own business.

I'M TELLING MY MOM!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!!!


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> OK, just for that, everybody will be writing a report on why Jimmy Swaggart is an irrelevant bum, 400 words, and have it posted to this thread first thing in the morning. This will be worth 15% of your final grade. OR, you can all tell me who threw that spitball. The choice is yours, people.


 *snort*  I'm not doin' that.


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## Flatlander (Sep 24, 2004)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> Wow, a classroom with at least three teachers in it. Now THAT'S efficiency.


No sass from you young man.


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 24, 2004)

flatlander said:
			
		

> No sass from you young man.


You know what's better than sass?  Sass-mouth.  Something about that is very funny.

*whines* another paper?!?  Look, I didn't do it...!

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhh!  *whine*


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## shesulsa (Sep 24, 2004)

(stands up)

 I THREW THE SPITBALL.

 (sits down)


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 24, 2004)

Awright, that is ENOUGH.

Little Miss Pert, hold out your hands. Palm up...no, HOLD THEM OUT.


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## shesulsa (Sep 25, 2004)

(holds up two fingers with two hands) :2xBird2:


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 25, 2004)

You will be the first to taste my ruler today.

THWACK. No...hold up the other one.

Hm. Isn't that what the hooker told Jimmy, back in that motel?


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## shesulsa (Sep 25, 2004)

(ruler breaks over She-Sulsa's hand)

 Nuthin' like taking one for the team.

 (picks up backpack and struts out of the room)


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 25, 2004)

I've been teaching for over twenty years. Titanium ruler. Then there are the Claymores in the hall, for the TRULY difficult student.


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## bignick (Sep 25, 2004)

you could use one of my computer science professors tactics when he gets frustrated with a bad student...flood us with quizzes that are easy if you spent your time reading and working through the material or that you'll fail everytime if you don't...i've seen him do this more than once to weed out students...literally, quizzes everyday for over month...

they either cure you or kill you


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## shesulsa (Sep 25, 2004)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> I've been teaching for over twenty years. Titanium ruler.


 You're Catholic, aren't you?



			
				rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> Then there are the Claymores in the hall, for the TRULY difficult student.


 Great!  Thanks!  

 (Grabs Claymore and turns to glance at teach)

 MWAAHAAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

 (charges off down the hall)


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## hardheadjarhead (Sep 25, 2004)

FEISTY STUCK A CRAYON UP HER NOSE!!!!

I saw her!   Then she licked it!

GROOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!






Regards,


Steve


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## rmcrobertson (Sep 25, 2004)

You're grabbing the one labelled, "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY?"

Hm. Now class, let's go back to work. NOW.


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## Feisty Mouse (Sep 25, 2004)

Did not!!!  I was just taking a nap on the crayon box, and one got stuck up my nose!

I need to see the nurse.  All I can smell is cornflower blue.  
*sneeze*


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