# Sinking Elbow Energy



## hpclub1000 (Jul 26, 2011)

Can someone explain, as best they can, what the hell this means.  Does it mean total relaxation?  Its in the contects of doing the first section of Sil Lim Tao.

Thank you


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## yak sao (Jul 26, 2011)

SNT teaches, among other things, body unity. That's why you can see a WC person knock someone back with what looks like a simple arm only punch, because they are in fact, hitting with their whole body behind the punch.

The one tan three fook section of the form really emphasises this, by having the arm go out very deliberately, as if someone is hanging on your elbow. This trains the arm to not go out independently from the body, to where you would be throwing an arm /shoulder punch, but connected to the trunk, where the punch has the full body behind it.

If you think of your punch as a wedge going out, if it makes contact on the inside of the opponent's arm, the wedge raises up into the face, causing the opponent's arm to be dispersed away. But, if you make contact with your opponent's punch on the outside of his arm, you want your wedge to descend towards his center....ie heavy elbow.

Defensively, it would be pretty much the same. If your opponent has the inside line and is driving his punch to your face/trunk, you would keep your elbow heavy, or sink the elbow to stop the punch. If his punch is powerful, add a pivot with the jum sau (sinking elbow)


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## Haris Lamboo Faisal (Jul 26, 2011)

Though i'm not as experienced as yak ... I have experienced the sink and an easy way to understand if you're getting proper chum (sinking energy) is to be aware of your knees all the way to the top of your spine / head , if the feel like they form a straight line and are solidly placed then you're getting proper chum energy. Then you can use the rest of your body , arms / legs in conjuction.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There is a story about a boy who went to live in the Shaolin temple, and for years his only martial arts training consisted of standing in a horse lifting his arms up, drop the elbows, and smack his hands down on a rock.  One day he was allowed to visit his family and at dinner he was asked to show them his martial arts mastery. Embarrassed that he knew nothing of the martial arts he jumped up in frustration, yelling, "I know nothing!" as he slammed his hands down on the table. The table lay smashed to bits, and his family then clapped and smiled, all convinced their boy had mastered the martial arts.
Sean


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## yak sao (Jul 26, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> There is a story about a boy who went to live in the Shaolin temple, and for years his only martial arts training consisted of standing in a horse lifting his arms up, drop the elbows, and smack his hands down on a rock. One day he was allowed to visit his family and at dinner he was asked to show them his martial arts mastery. Embarrassed that he knew nothing of the martial arts he jumped up in frustration, yelling, "I know nothing!" as he slammed his hands down on the table. The table lay smashed to bits, and his family then clapped and smiled, all convinced their boy had mastered the martial arts.
> Sean



Fiction or not, I love those kinds of stories


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## geezer (Jul 26, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> ...he jumped up in frustration, yelling, "I know nothing!" as he slammed his hands down on the table. The table lay smashed to bits, and his family then clapped and smiled, all convinced their boy had mastered the martial arts.  Sean



BS. His dad yelled at him, calling him a rude, ill-mannered show-off and made him pay for the table.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 26, 2011)

... with all the money they were paying him at the temple? I think not. They made him fix the table. End of story.


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## hpclub1000 (Jul 26, 2011)

yak sao said:


> SNT teaches, among other things, body unity. That's why you can see a WC person knock someone back with what looks like a simple arm only punch, because they are in fact, hitting with their whole body behind the punch.
> 
> The one tan three fook section of the form really emphasises this, by having the arm go out very deliberately, as if someone is hanging on your elbow. This trains the arm to not go out independently from the body, to where you would be throwing an arm /shoulder punch, but connected to the trunk, where the punch has the full body behind it.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply.  I can understand the principles of using the elbow as a wedge and your answer is very much based from scienific basis.  What Im trying to get at is there some kind of internal aspect to sinking elbow energy. Should I be feeling heavyness when doing the three prayers to buddah?

What is heavy elbow?

What do you mean by someoe hanging onto your elbow?


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## mook jong man (Jul 26, 2011)

hpclub1000 said:


> Thank you for your reply.  I can understand the principles of using the elbow as a wedge and your answer is very much based from scienific basis.  What Im trying to get at is there some kind of internal aspect to sinking elbow energy. Should I be feeling heavyness when doing the three prayers to buddah?
> 
> What is heavy elbow?
> 
> ...



There is an internal aspect and it is based squarely on relaxation , you don't actively push your shoulders down in order to get the elbows to sink , this is counter productive and will just lead to other muscles tensing up.

The shoulders must be allowed to relax and let the elbows sink down naturally , that is the start and then later with more training the muscles around the chest area and surrounding the spine are also trained to relax.

From this state of relaxation , the bodyweight can be mentally transfered into the limb that is attacking or defending , this has the effect of making the limb feel very heavy and powerful , even though it is very relaxed and no brute strength is being used.

If you are ever lucky enough to touch hands with a genuine Master you can feel this phenomenon with their Fook Sau , it will feel very weighty as though you are carrying their whole body on your Tan Sau.

In regards to the form you should be trying for this 'heaviness" feeling during the whole duration of the form and indeed with any technique you happen to be performing.


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## hpclub1000 (Jul 27, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> There is an internal aspect and it is based squarely on relaxation , you don't actively push your shoulders down in order to get the elbows to sink , this is counter productive and will just lead to other muscles tensing up.
> 
> The shoulders must be allowed to relax and let the elbows sink down naturally , that is the start and then later with more training the muscles around the chest area and surrounding the spine are also trained to relax.
> 
> ...



Thank you MYJ I think this answers my question. For many years I used to train this section with tension in the fingers, wrist, forearm, bicep and tricep almost like a dynamic isometric tension - very much an external feeling.  More recently, through Ip Ching Liniage the only energy is in the thumb on the Tan Sau, Wrist on Wu Sau and Fook Sau with the rest of the body relaxed apart from the small contraction in the anus.

I think more practice for me.


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## cwk (Jul 27, 2011)

Bringing the elbow more into the centre can help with the "heavy" force you're looking for. I used to have the same problem, I (like a lot of people) thought that my elbow was right in the centre but then I was shown that with a bit of stretching I could bring it in about an inch further. It's really uncomfortable at first and takes a while to get the muscles to stretch so that the shoulder remains relaxed but it really helps with loosening up the arm and making it "heavy".


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## zepedawingchun (Jul 27, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> . . . . .From this state of relaxation , the bodyweight can be mentally transfered into the limb that is attacking or defending , this has the effect of making the limb feel very heavy and powerful , even though it is very relaxed and no brute strength is being used. . . .
> . . . . . .In regards to the form you should be trying for this 'heaviness" feeling during the whole duration of the form and indeed with any technique you happen to be performing.



I'm sure you've heard the term 'dead weight', something is hard to move because it is so heavy, like dead weight.  It feels like that when someone is sinking their position on you.


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