# Hair Pull defence



## samurai69 (Mar 11, 2008)

During my last Womens Self Defence Course, i was asked about defences against the "rear Hair Pull" as the mojority of women here have shoulder length or longer hairstyles 

I have covered a few in aikido , but they are over complicated for a 4 day course 

Now if someone is attacked from behind with a hair pull there is normally a jerking movement which would initiate some sort of shock/startle response (probably away from the direction of the pull), then if the attack is ferocious enough the continuing pull, may take the victim off balance. 

so my question is do you know of any defences from the rear hair pull, and are the assumptions above correct 

. 

I do have a few ideas, but would like to hear from forum members on the subject


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## Laurentkd (Mar 11, 2008)

Well, I don't know if this is really a "defense" but by placing your hand on top of the attackers hand and pushing down against your head you take away the strain on the hair.  This has to be followed very quickly by some other defense move (mule kick to the knee, elbow to the center, hammerfist/backfist to the groin to name a couple). But that movement at least takes away the pain from the hair grab.  Of course, you are losing one of your own weapons (the grabbing hand) by doing this as well.  These types of things are never good situations to be in, but you have to do the best with what you have at the time.  Telling them that having a bald spot isn't much to lose would also be a good idea!  I tell all my self-defense participants that they have to realize they WILL get hurt if they are forced to defend themselves.  They have to decide that they are willing to get hurt while hurting the attacker more.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 11, 2008)

Oh -- to pull the hair from behind -- that is not the proper way to freespar.  The opponent wishes to do you harm, and so this is a self defense situation.  You must use the American Kenpo ways now to defeat the opponent. 

You can do the *OBSCURE CLAWS*.  Though it is not especially for the pulling the hair from behind, but rather for the shoulder grab, do the Obscure Claws anyway.

Here:

http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week38/TipOfTheWeekMedW38.html


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## Empty Hands (Mar 11, 2008)

Do something similar to Locked Wing.  Step back and into the attack as you rotate to take the strain off your hair and position yourself to strike.  Grab the grabbing hand if possible in order to strike on that now open side, or just go basic and strike to the throat or groin.  Move fast though, or you will be pulled right onto your ***.


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## myusername (Mar 11, 2008)

In my breakaway training for my job we were told that if you had a ponytail that is being pulled from behind by an attacker you should reach around to the back of your head and try and gather up the remaining ponytail yourself reducing the tension or if there was not space to do that put your hands around the attackers hands. From there we were informed that we could apply pressure to the thumb joint or finger joints by pressing the nail to the inside 2nd joint thus forcing the attacker to release their grip.

If it was a standard hair pull where the attacker has just got a fist full of hair we were told to place our open hand palm over the attckers knuckles and push hard on to our skull thus supposedly forcing the attckers grip to release. Personally in practice we all found this one a bit hit and miss and after a while it hurt our heads!

Like I said the above are from my nursing breakaway training so I'm sure that there must be some better martial arts moves that would cause damage to the attacker that they obviously would not want to teach a bunch of nurses to do! (imagine the litigation!!) I can imagine a well timed back kick to the groin or some general grabbing and twisting will be the name of the game! LOL!


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## MA-Caver (Mar 11, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> Oh -- to pull the hair from behind -- that is not the proper way to freespar.  The opponent wishes to do you harm, and so this is a self defense situation.  You must use the American Kenpo ways now to defeat the opponent.
> 
> You can do the *OBSCURE CLAWS*.  Though it is not especially for the pulling the hair from behind, but rather for the shoulder grab, do the Obscure Claws anyway.
> 
> ...



:lfao: I'm sorry, but that video made me giggle uncontrollably. Tatum was literally smacking the crap out of that blue belt uke.

*ahem* Ok, yes, that was my first thought of a rear-hair pull was to step back and (originally) hit with an sharp elbow jab to the solar-plexus followed through with the trapping of the arm after clawing the face in that circular move Tatum showed. But Obscure Claws seems the better way to go as it's more damaging, because hair pulls *hurt* dammit, I used to have long hair so I know.  
This is of course is effective if one's awareness is at where it should be appropriate to the situation/circumstances, you'd be ready for that, otherwise as was earlier pointed out the initial reaction is to pull forward, away. 
If that does happen there is a way to compensate for that by going down to the knee turning and coming back up with arms forward and up parallel along your torso to strike/block as you move up towards the hair-puller. 
But learning defense against that is something I think women (and long-haired hippie type guys ... wait, I used to be one) should include in their arsenal.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 11, 2008)

myusername said:


> From there we were informed that we could apply pressure to the thumb joint or finger joints by pressing the nail to the inside 2nd joint thus forcing the attacker to release their grip.



Yeah, I don't think so.  I just tried that on myself, and it doesn't even hurt.  Meanwhile, your hair is being used as a handle to jerk your head around.  Re-grabbing is useful, but your arm isn't anchored thus making it difficult to do anything with that hand/arm you've grabbed.  I'd go for strikes.



myusername said:


> If it was a standard hair pull where the attacker has just got a fist full of hair we were told to place our open hand palm over the attckers knuckles and push hard on to our skull thus supposedly forcing the attckers grip to release.



Yeah, that really isn't going to work either.  Especially with man grabbing woman and her trying to break the grip.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 11, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> going down to the knee turning and coming back up with arms forward and up parallel along your torso to strike/block as you move up towards the hair-puller.



I swear to you, THIS is the *first* thought that I had!  But I could not find the words to express it.  Instead of coming up the way that you say, though, I would prefer to after the turn, hold the hand to the head, then to kick, but the flow is not as nice, as far as I can invision this in my mind -- and I am at work, and none of my coworkers practice these martial arts, so stepping through this is out of the question at the moment, ahahahahaha

I want to hear from some American Kenpo Person please to discuss the modification of this Obscure Claws technique to the rear hair pulling, if any read this thread.


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## theletch1 (Mar 11, 2008)

Reach back, trap the grabbing hand with one of yours, turn toward the attacker while dropping your center, ridgehand upward into the groin.  Of course if you get the "one shot one kill" mentality with that groin strike your dead, but the groin strike is a good first one.


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## Blindside (Mar 11, 2008)

> Oh -- to pull the hair from behind -- that is not the proper way to freespar. The opponent wishes to do you harm, and so this is a self defense situation. You must use the American Kenpo ways now to defeat the opponent.


 
You don't know my sparring partners.   I used to have long hair, and it was a favorite target for my training partners in scenario training, and once I was even choked out with my ponytail in sparring.  

I found that using one hand to pin the opponent's hand in place wasn't all that useful.  It only prevents them from letting go, and doesn't do anything to stop them from yanking you around.  It also ties up one of your hands, just like one of theirs is.

Also if you have long hair you usually have room to turn if you can get your balance so that you can face your work.  Unless your opponent grabs your hair and starts running backwards, you will have a have a chance to get your balance.  What usually happens is that the hair grab is a prelude to whatever else is going to happen, say a backward hair yank into a choke or headlock.  If you are truly surprised, by the time you have gotten your mental and physical balance, you may well have progressed into something else entirely.  

If you are not surprised, there are a number of options, like stepping back with the pull, with a backward high elbow to face, then over-wrapping their pulling arm with your closest arm, you still won't be in a good position, but it will let you establish your base.

Lamont


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## MA-Caver (Mar 11, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> > Originally Posted by *myusername *
> > From there we were informed that we could apply pressure to the thumb joint or finger joints by pressing the nail to the inside 2nd joint thus forcing the attacker to release their grip
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed, as the longer the hair the more of a grip the person can take, and their hand (s) are busy holding on to the hair so they're one handed at this point and strikes would be more effective. It wouldn't matter if it were a man or a woman grabbing the hair either. That move (as stated earlier) is intended to cause harm as well as effect control to either hold you in that position or draw you towards them for whatever they have in mind be it a knife stab or a punch. 
With this be also ever mindful of the knife that isn't seen. 
This type of attack happens so quickly and thus the reaction must be quicker than the next step in the attack. Again, awareness plays a huge part.


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## arnisador (Mar 11, 2008)

If you're caught by surprise, you're caught by surprise, and maybe you're going down. You also never know if you're being pulled into a knife or kidney punch but all things considered I'd probably try to go with it, drop my elevation, and turn into the other person. I'm a big guy so I'd likely go straight to grappling, or start with an initial elbow to the chest if things worked out well for me; for a smaller person a strike rather than grappling might be best.



Laurentkd said:


> Well, I don't know if this is really a "defense" but by placing your hand on top of the attackers hand and pushing down against your head you take away the strain on the hair.  This has to be followed very quickly by some other defense move



This might work, especially if the opponent is much taller. But if he wants to take you down and has the drop on you, it's probably too little, too late. I don't especially like this approach.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 11, 2008)

Pinning their hand to the top of your head is fine.  However, your first concern needs to be establishing your base so that you're not taken to the floor.  Once you've got some stability, attack any targets that are available (eyes, throat, groin, etc.)

for an idea of just how serious this type of attack can be and how little time you have to react, watch this video.  
http://www.englishrussia.com/?p=557


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## Empty Hands (Mar 11, 2008)

Blindside said:


> ...once I was even choked out with my ponytail in sparring.



Ooohhhhh, BURN!  Bet you didn't hear the end of that for a long time.


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## Blindside (Mar 11, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Ooohhhhh, BURN! Bet you didn't hear the end of that for a long time.


 
Actually my instructor prefers to talk about the time when we were doing two on one sparring, and he was picking me off the ground (by my hair) and the other guy decided that it would be better if I stayed on the ground.  My instructor just looked at the handfull of hair in his hand before going back to kicking me, that was fine, I needed the break.   

There is a reason I have short hair now.....

Lamont


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## newGuy12 (Mar 11, 2008)

nice!


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## MA-Caver (Mar 11, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Pinning their hand to the top of your head is fine.  However, your first concern needs to be establishing your base so that you're not taken to the floor.  Once you've got some stability, attack any targets that are available (eyes, throat, groin, etc.)
> 
> for an idea of just how serious this type of attack can be and how little time you have to react, watch this video.
> http://www.englishrussia.com/?p=557


That's terrible and I'm glad the bastard was caught. It wasn't enough that he managed to get her down but kept on kicking and beating her... maybe she was moaning/groaning in pain but sheesh fella enough is enough... 
But it does show the reaction time and just what can happen if you don't respond quick enough.


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## myusername (Mar 11, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> for an idea of just how serious this type of attack can be and how little time you have to react, watch this video.
> http://www.englishrussia.com/?p=557



That is shocking! What a complete scumbag! There was no need to stamp on her like that, I'm glad they caught him.


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## still learning (Mar 12, 2008)

Hello, Loren Christsenten (one of his books), cover this area of hairs attacks and defense!  Worth reading and getting!

Pulling and twisting someone hair on the head is very painful.  Because you grab the hair (connect to the head)....you will have more control of the other person.

Best defence is? NO hairs ...or grease them!

Just like poking the eyes....hair pulls is a great choice to use against the other person. (read "Lorens" books on hair attacks).

The more you learn how to use "Hair grabs" ....it will only add to your skills as a martial artists.

First sign of mental illness is "hair on the knuckles" ...second sign is "looking for the hairs on the knuckles" ?

Aloha ( Closer you can grab the hair to roots...the better control you will have!)  ...theirs...not yours...


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## newGuy12 (Mar 12, 2008)

still learning said:


> ( Closer you can grab the hair to roots...the better control you will have!)  ...theirs...not yours...


And the easier to grab their hand, the closer they grab to the roots!


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## Scarey (Mar 12, 2008)

As with any situation where the assailant gives you a convenient limb to play with, I would suggest trapping, a quick painful distraction technique,  followed by  turning around beneath their arm ( while the hand is still locked in position). People tend to loosen their grip once their wrist is facing the wrong direction. Then, as you are still in possession of  the aforementioned limb,do what you will with your recently acquired hand. I did this during practice when I had long hair. I had always been a bit worried about it, so I applied the same logic used in any grab attack. Like I always say, anyone foolish enoughto give you an arm doesn't deserve to get it back. (at least not in the same condition they gave it to you in) =^_^=


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## lcortez (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi there,new to forum,but heres my two cents worth!
Assuming the rear hair grab is with the aim of pulling the victim backwards, how about going with it, and headbutt the attacker with the back of the head, and then follow up with sidekick to the knee or shin, scrapping the edge of your shoe down the shin, finally stamping on the attackers instep to damage the foot and hopefully delay any pursuit whilst the victim runs for help.


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## still learning (Mar 15, 2008)

Hello, Hair pulling hurts.....any type of after techniques will help you in escaping.

Easter coming .... Did you know rabbits have "HARE" too!

(ear pulling technique works for rabbits? and big ear humans?)

Aloha ( ok I heard you?)


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 15, 2008)

First of all learn how to fall. Chances are if he or she has got your pony they are pulling you off your feet. Secondly practice "real" hair grabs. Run your hand along the scalp and make a fist. The pain you experience should be more so than the pony tail pull. Thirdly, practice, practice, practice.
Sean


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 15, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> That's terrible and I'm glad the bastard was caught. It wasn't enough that he managed to get her down but kept on kicking and beating her... maybe she was moaning/groaning in pain but sheesh fella enough is enough...
> But it does show the reaction time and just what can happen if you don't respond quick enough.


 
I sucked what he did to her.

It was not right.

But, what value did it give her to hang onto her purse and or keys or what ever else he had to kick to get her to release?

There comes a point when it is better to give the stuff away especially if you can stay and he leaves.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 15, 2008)

The only real defence against hair-grabs is not to have any or to practise continual awareness (zanshin).  

A pony-tail like mine makes a convenient handle but it's not more vulnerable really than any grasping of the hair.  Given that I'm middle aged, my hair falls out as soon as you look at it anway .

As an aside, that surveilance video was really disturbing - shoot the SOB and improve the gene-pool.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 16, 2008)

My hair has been so short for so many years that you'd need tweezers to pull it.....but when I was a teenager I actually got in a fight where my hair was pulled (back in my pony tail days ).

I remember we got in a fight in a cemetary, and this guy had been getting had, when he grabbed my hair with one hand and my left arm (which had been jabbing him) with his other.....unfortunately for him, that left another arm which I used to palm-heel smack him in the groin several times until he let go.......then I headbutted him, choked him and landed some elbows to the back of his head....ending the fight with some leg kicks, when his buddies jumped in, seperate us and realizing I was outnumbered, decided what was the better part of valor!

Funny thing about having my hair pulled......I really didn't feel it at the time!  I just couldn't move my head where I wanted to go....but by grabbing my hair, he left at least one uncontrolled hand!

That having been said, bald is beautiful when it comes to 'Hair Grabbing' defense.


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## samurai69 (Mar 18, 2008)

we ran through it with some willing female students with long hair.............ok, they know its coming so may not have been 100% accurate on their responses.............and TBH it was a 50 50 split in the immediate reaction, depending also on the force of the attack and the size and shape of the student 

so really not easiest technique to quantify 

if student was small and the yank was hard enough the were pulled easily off balance and possibly ended up on the floor..............genarally with hair being let go of and then it became a defence from the floor once the victim had reagined enogh composure to fight.................probably the worst case scenario....................but one we are going to introduce and discuss in future courses 

then there was the jerk away from the pull with a hand going up to protect from the hair pull...........with this pull away, if there was a dip and rotation the victim could now turn and face the attacker and respond with close up responses (knees elbows palm jabs etc


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## punisher73 (Mar 18, 2008)

What is the purpose of the hair grab in the first place?

When I worked in corrections in our jail, I was talking to a guy who had been in prison and said that he witnessed a fight where one guy had long hair and the other guy walked up and grabbed the hair and then "spun" his hand around it so it was all wound up/caught up in the hair then proceeded to pound the guy unconscious.

I had an incident where a very violent/strong EI inmate went after one of the other deputies.  The guy was alot taller than me, but I grabbed two handfuls of hair and yanked him to the ground like on the video and then we were able to restrain him without having to really hurt him.

So if you are getting grabbed why?  Is it for a takedown, is it to hold the head in place to strike, or is it for intimidation/fear to control for something else (robbery or rape)?

I think you are going to find different answers for all of those scenarios.  So it's hard to give a set answer.


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## KenpoTex (Mar 22, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> What is the purpose of the hair grab in the first place?
> 
> When I worked in corrections in our jail, I was talking to a guy who had been in prison and said that he witnessed a fight where one guy had long hair and *the other guy walked up and grabbed the hair and then "spun" his hand around it so it was all wound up/caught up in the hair then proceeded to pound the guy unconscious.*
> 
> ...


 
Excellent points that must be considered in an objective manner if a workable answer is to be found.

The same thing applies to lapel-grabs, wrist-grabs, etc. It is very common in the martial-arts to see a technique performed when someone grabs on and just stands there (how nice of them). The problem with this type of attack energy is that if they're just standing there anything will work. If they give you an attack with some _intent and energy_, it completely changes the game...all the trapping/parrying/locking crap goes out the window when you're being slammed into the wall by your hair or your shoulder feels like it's going to pop out of joint because the guy that grabbed your wrist is swinging you around like a rag-doll instead of standing there like a dumbass (how inconsiderate of him...).


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