# Shin Conditioning Is A Must



## DeLamar.J (Dec 22, 2004)

How do all of you feel about shin coditioning? My friend recently went into a good dojo and sparred with a few of the top students, who were all great students, but lacked in the conditioning department. He was talking to the instructor, telling him how good his students are, but all he had to do was pop them in the shins a few times, somtimes even just one good shot, and all they know becomes nothing because he has taken there foundation. 
I have seen this many times, so many schools lack in this area. Shin conditioning isnt only for the thia fighters. It should be a part of all martial arts training. Most people dont realize this until they are up against a fighter who forces some shin contact into the mix. 
That is one of the first things to check out on a fighter, pop them shins and see how they take it, most people do not do shin training and will be finished after a few good low shots, its a shame to see a good martial artist go down from such a simple technique. Train them shins people, before you learn the hard way. Just my personal advice to all my fellow martial artists on this board.


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## Shu2jack (Dec 22, 2004)

I agree. One of my personal favorites when sparring students (I study TKD) is to use downward elbow strikes from the basic "on guard" position when they throw round kicks to my mid-section. After having their shin strike two or three times they either stop kicking and start limping or learn to throw a round kick at a better angle when sparring.


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## greyghost (Dec 22, 2004)

How would you best suggest working on the shins? I'm a definite "kicker" and have had many bruises and big swollen spots on my shins from sparring this way. Nobody in my schools ever suggested conditioning, they just wanted us to get shin pads, which can slip and are annoying anyways.


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2004)

Kicking the heavy bag will definately be a good start.  

Taking a focus pad or Thai pad and hitting it against your shins.

I've also heard of taking a bottle or stick (Kali) and rolling it up and down the shin area.

It'll definately take some time, as it certainly won't happen overnight.

Mike


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## loki09789 (Dec 22, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> Kicking the heavy bag will definately be a good start.
> 
> Taking a focus pad or Thai pad and hitting it against your shins.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm in this department myself. Conditioning for the modern situation will happen in a well rounded program that has impact training, partner drills, free form drills and so on.

I know that I am facing the possibility of dealing with contact with hard objects but we are not preparing to face armor wearing, mounted opponents who we have to block, punch, kick.

I think in this area of MA training especially, technology (pepper spray, guns, ...) has made us 'soft' because there are other components of Self Defense training that time has to be devoted to other than continuously smashin my fist/shins against a banana tree.


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## greyghost (Dec 22, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> Kicking the heavy bag will definately be a good start.
> 
> Taking a focus pad or Thai pad and hitting it against your shins.
> 
> ...


 Man I love kicking the heavy bag - I will try the bottle/stick/roll idea. Thanks.


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2004)

greyghost said:
			
		

> Man I love kicking the heavy bag - I will try the bottle/stick/roll idea. Thanks.



You're quite welcome!  Glad I could help.

Mike


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## bignick (Dec 22, 2004)

if you're rolling a staff up and down you shins...my sensei recommends an octogan staff for some real fun...


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## Black Bear (Dec 22, 2004)

I was told to rap chopsticks up and down the shin bone for a few minutes per day, just while watching TV or something. The guy who told me this had a helluva shin kick, so I tried it. 

I quit after awhile because it was boring, and I didn't like bending way over like that, even when reclining on the couch. Seems to have helped. You could give it a shot.


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## KenpoGuy71 (Dec 22, 2004)

If you plan on conditioning your shins with bottles or ironwood stick, I recommend you wrap it with a towel when you first get started. And start out SLOWLY! You can seriously damage your shins if you get overzealous... 

As suggested, kicking a bag will help... as well as partner drills.

Of course the whole point is to avoid shin vs. shin contact... and you can minimize the impact by learning how to absorb kicks with your shin the RIGHT WAY... ask a Enshin / Ashihara or Kyokushin fighter on the HOW.

KG


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## OULobo (Dec 22, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> Kicking the heavy bag will definately be a good start.
> 
> Taking a focus pad or Thai pad and hitting it against your shins.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with the heavy bag and Thai pad ideas. The bottle or stick idea isn't smart. It's a general misconception that this will toughen your shins. All it will really do is damage your shins. You will gain some benefit of deadened nerves, but you will pay a hefty price later. The idea is to build bone density and nerve resistance at a very gradual pace with continuous impact on firm, but giving materials, like "banana bags", heavy bags and thai pads. For what it is worth, I was at a seminar with a very well respected Thai instructor and the idea of smacking your shins on things and using things like bottles and sticks on them was brought up to him. He said the those are not good ideas and will only invite permenant injury, he added that no one in Thailand trains like that.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Dec 23, 2004)

As a teen, I went overboard with this. Started banging my shins with a shinai first, then cane, then glass bottle filled with sand. Did it 100 times on each limb, twice a day...AM and PM. Did the same thing to my forearms. As long as I stayed active, the really cool effect was the ability to hurt other guys in sparring just by blocking firmly (if they haven't done desensitization training, you can make 'em limp pretty good with a decent contact that you barely feel).

Bummer was coming back after a layoff. First time sparring, I kept throwing things like I was still desensitized, but during the layoff the nerves had grown back/resensitized. Damn near dropped from the severe pain in the shins I experienced in a clash. Haven't had the stones to start over with it again, so I avoid sparring and leave it to the younger bucks. Although I do miss being able to say "I'll allow anyone to hurt themselves on me as much as they like".

Dave


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## MJS (Dec 23, 2004)

OULobo said:
			
		

> I totally agree with the heavy bag and Thai pad ideas. The bottle or stick idea isn't smart. It's a general misconception that this will toughen your shins. All it will really do is damage your shins. You will gain some benefit of deadened nerves, but you will pay a hefty price later. The idea is to build bone density and nerve resistance at a very gradual pace with continuous impact on firm, but giving materials, like "banana bags", heavy bags and thai pads. For what it is worth, I was at a seminar with a very well respected Thai instructor and the idea of smacking your shins on things and using things like bottles and sticks on them was brought up to him. He said the those are not good ideas and will only invite permenant injury, he added that no one in Thailand trains like that.



I agree, as I'm not too keen on the idea of the bottle or stick.  Personally, if someone was just starting out, I'd rather use a softer object.  The same can be said for people that do iron palm training.  

Mike


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## terryl965 (Dec 23, 2004)

well if you would like fast results take a breaking broad and take the edge it hit it up and down your shins for 15 minutes each leg every other day for 6 weeks you'll be black and blue but it wroth it to build resistance against heavy kickers


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## loki09789 (Dec 23, 2004)

MJS said:
			
		

> I agree, as I'm not too keen on the idea of the bottle or stick. Personally, if someone was just starting out, I'd rather use a softer object. The same can be said for people that do iron palm training.
> 
> Mike


Rolling a stick/bottle up and down the shin/forearm is okay as long as you are always working at the intensity level that is slightly uncomfortable and no more.  As you become desensitized, you will be able to press harder over time.  When you can really crank hard during the rolling, changing to tapping is okay and again, only hit hard enough to produce mild discomfort.


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## MJS (Dec 23, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Rolling a stick/bottle up and down the shin/forearm is okay as long as you are always working at the intensity level that is slightly uncomfortable and no more.  As you become desensitized, you will be able to press harder over time.  When you can really crank hard during the rolling, changing to tapping is okay and again, only hit hard enough to produce mild discomfort.



Thanks Paul!! :asian: I think some confusion came from the idea that the bottle is actually hit against the leg.  Rolling it is the way to go.  Kenpoguy made some good points by saying to wrap it in a towel, to soften the initial effect of the process.  

Like anything, there are many ways to go about conditioning parts of the body.  The person doing the conditioning needs to find the best way that suits them! :ultracool 

Mike


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## kanjc (Dec 23, 2004)

I have to agree that shin conditioning is very important. The instructor at our school has been telling us for a long time to start out slow but, to kick the heavy bag with our shins. I did not realize how important until I was sparring with another student and the other student blocked my round kick with their knee. My left shin is still tender and that was 3 weeks ago.


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## D.Cobb (Dec 27, 2004)

Yeah, I agree, lets all go and bash the nerve endings in our legs, just so we can take what ever our sparring partner can dish out.
Thanks but I want to be able to walk properly when I'm 80. Heck at the ripe old age of 39, there are things, if I had my time over I wouldn't do to myself again.

--Dave


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## Miles (Dec 27, 2004)

Are you conditioning your shins to spar in your dojo/dojang/kwoon or are you thinking this is important for self-defense?

If the former, are elbow strikes to the shins allowed or is that a foul?  I don't see the point if your style does not allow for leg kicks and you are not doing for self defense.

If you think you are doing it for self-defense purposes, how many times have you been attacked at the shin level?

Miles


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## 7starmantis (Dec 27, 2004)

We do alot of body conditioning in my school. What I would advise is the stick/bottle rolling technique. However, it was said start very slow and quite soft. Do not go beyond "mild discomfort". Also, never roll upwards, only downwards (away from the heart). Do not tap, but roll firmly, then as you progress after several months you may begin tapping. Our iron arm training schedule lasts 5 months, and thats just moving up to using wood. So go slow!! Also, it would be worth your while to invest in some type of jow for this training. 

 Anyways, it is very important to condition your body. There are those who go overboard and thus can result in permanent damage or injury, but done propoerly it can be very safe and quite beneficial. 

 7sm


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## D.Cobb (Dec 28, 2004)

Miles said:
			
		

> Are you conditioning your shins to spar in your dojo/dojang/kwoon or are you thinking this is important for self-defense?
> 
> If the former, are elbow strikes to the shins allowed or is that a foul?  I don't see the point if your style does not allow for leg kicks and you are not doing for self defense.
> 
> ...



In the ring we get to see multiple leg strikes, and if we want to defend against this then we need to condition our shins, becaus we are going 3, 4 or 5 3 minute rounds. In self defense, we want to be finished with the whole sorry mess in a matter of seconds. Don't give him room to kick effectively close the gap on him and bash the living s**t out of him. Put serious intent behind every strike, don't think about points, points will get you dead. Kick his knees out, stomp down his shins, if the shins don't get hurt then the ankles will. Attack the pressure points on the insides or outside of his thighs with your knees. 
None of these attacks can be conditioned against.

--Dave


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