# Lance Corporal, it hurts to breath



## CuongNhuka (Aug 5, 2008)

No, I'm not kidding. I should probably tell you what happened.

I was running with the Marines today, and we did whats called the IST (Initial Strength Test), which includes a mile and a half run. It's not long, but today I was really pushing myself. Passing is 13 minutes, perfect is 9. Normally (because I'm more of a sprinter) I do pretty bad. OK, normally I do 14-15 minutes. Today, I did 10 minutes. So, I took 4 minutes off my mile and half time in the last month.

I pushed myself really hard and had breathing cramps. I've started to get used to having them, but haven't gotten rid of them. Today with about a quarter mile left, my breathing cramps got horrid. I could only barely inhale (even when walking), and when I exhaled, I moaned. Imagine getting the wind knocked out of you, and then doing you best to sprint a quarter mile. So, you can figure I REALLY want some ideas how to get rid of/cure breathing cramps.

Anyone have any ideas?


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## shesulsa (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah, you should probably get checked (just in case) for exercise-induced asthma. If negative, ask the pulmonologist about what on earth you can do to better your cardiopulmonary situation according to your need.


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## arnisador (Aug 5, 2008)

You may just need time to adjust, but ask to be checked out. It's best to be safe, and if it _is _something serious the consequences could be quite severe with training like this.


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## Andy Moynihan (Aug 6, 2008)

Also--how much water have you been drinking before each run? Too much can induce stitches/cramps.


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## morph4me (Aug 6, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Yeah, you should probably get checked (just in case) for exercise-induced asthma. If negative, ask the pulmonologist about what on earth you can do to better your cardiopulmonary situation according to your need.


 
I agree, I have exercise induced asthma. Get it checked out by a doctor. An asthma attack can kill you.


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## MJS (Aug 6, 2008)

I'd also make sure that you're breathing properly.  How you breath while you're running can make a huge difference in your performance.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2008)

I have some of the same problems.  It is based mainly on how hard you push yourself.  The best thing to do is 1) Hydrate 2) Get lots of potassium 3) Build yourself up to running.  You can't cut 4 minutes off your mile time and expect to feel great.    The harder you push, the more it will hurt.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> 1) Hydrate


 
I'm good there. I drink alot of water, but not to the point were it's coming out of my ears (lol)



MBuzzy said:


> 2) Get lots of potassium


 

I ate a bananna about an hour before I went running.



MBuzzy said:


> You can't cut 4 minutes off your mile time and expect to feel great.


 
Tell me about it. :erg:

So, could someone tell me if exercise induced asthma will bar me from military service?


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## shesulsa (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> I'm good there. I drink alot of water, but not to the point were it's coming out of my ears (lol)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No idea.


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## CoryKS (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> So, could someone tell me if exercise induced asthma will bar me from military service?


 
Yes, I'm afraid it will.  Hope it isn't that, but you should confirm with a doctor before you breath a word of it to the Marines.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> you should confirm with a doctor before you breath a word of it to the Marines.


 
Any idea how long it would take to do a test for exercise indunced asthma? How much will it cost? How quickly can I get the results? Could exercise induced asthma go away? (it developed, can it un-develop?)

Would exercise induced Asthma include pain _the next day_? Because I still have the same kind of cramping in my lower rib cage today as I did yesterday.


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## CoryKS (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Any idea how long it would take to do a test for exercise indunced asthma? How much will it cost? How quickly can I get the results? Could exercise induced asthma go away? (it developed, can it un-develop?)
> 
> Would exercise induced Asthma include pain _the next day_? Because I still have the same kind of cramping in my lower rib cage today as I did yesterday.


 
Can't answer that, I'm unfamiliar with exercise-induced asthma.  I do know that the military will not accept recruits with any form of asthma.  There is an asthma test that is administered at the MEPS center if any irregularities are heard during the physical screening, but I don't know if the same test is used for asthma brought on by exertion.  

If this form of asthma is not detected during a routine screening, you might get through MEPS unnoticed; however, if you are experiencing problems after a 1.5 mi run you will definitely have problems in boot camp and your condition will be detected.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> If this form of asthma is not detected during a routine screening, you might get through MEPS unnoticed; however, if you are experiencing problems after a 1.5 mi run you will definitely have problems in boot camp and your condition will be detected.


 
Well, I'm going to get an appointment made, and I'll find out soon. I don't suppose you know if I could re-apply if my asthma (assuming thats what I have) get better?


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## CoryKS (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Well, I'm going to get an appointment made, and I'll find out soon. I don't suppose you know if I could re-apply if my asthma (assuming thats what I have) get better?


 
I don't know.  If you can convince them that yours is a kind of asthma that can be cured and doesn't require treatment, you might be able to get a waiver.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> I don't know. If you can convince them that yours is a kind of asthma that can be cured and doesn't require treatment, you might be able to get a waiver.


 
I actually just told one of the recruiters what happened (he called offering me an early ship to Basic, and I felt like I had to tell him why I might have to refuse). I told him everything, including the pain in my ribs, he said it was because I either didn't stretch well enough, or I'm just out of shape.

So, does anyone know what I can do to help with breathing cramps just in general?


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## Kacey (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Any idea how long it would take to do a test for exercise indunced asthma? How much will it cost? How quickly can I get the results? Could exercise induced asthma go away? (it developed, can it un-develop?)
> 
> Would exercise induced Asthma include pain _the next day_? Because I still have the same kind of cramping in my lower rib cage today as I did yesterday.



I have (or had) exercise-induced asthma following a serious case of bronchitis; it went away over a couple of years, as the residual inflammation from the bronchitis slowly went away.  Not knowing what your insurance covers, or the costs (or if you have insurance) I can't tell you anything about costs.  It can go away - but it doesn't, always.  It was diagnosed empirically; that is, I had problems with shortness of breath during exercise that went away when treated with an inhaled steroidal asthma medication - therefore, it was determined that I had exercise-induced asthma.  A couple of times, while ill, it got bad enough for me to need to go to the doctor's office for more intensive treatment... but over time I needed the inhaler less and less, and now I haven't used it for about 2 years.

If you are still in pain the next day, that doesn't sound like asthma; it sounds like soreness, and it's probably related to not breathing correctly - stretching is also a likely problem.  Warm up your muscles before you start running; stretch and cool down after you stop running.

Bananas are good for potassium - but remember it takes time for nutrients to get into your system.  Eating a banana within a couple of hours of running is not going to help with _that_ run, although it might help with the next one if you do it consistently.  And I would suggest a decent multi-vitamin as well.


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## morph4me (Aug 6, 2008)

Bear in mind that asthma is just one possibility, it could be any number of things, you could be getting a cold.  See what a doctor says, there's no point in worrying about what it might be.


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## arnisador (Aug 6, 2008)

I agree. Get it checked out but don't convince yourself yet that it's anything more than not being in fighting shape yet. But...get a check-up and ask your physician about it now!


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 6, 2008)

Kacey said:


> If you are still in pain the next day, that doesn't sound like asthma; it sounds like soreness, and it's probably related to not breathing correctly - stretching is also a likely problem. Warm up your muscles before you start running; stretch and cool down after you stop running.


 
That's actually what I was told from the recruiter who told me I didn't need to worry about asthma. I'm actually going to a full check up before I go to Basic, so I geuss I'll find out soon enough.


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## shesulsa (Aug 6, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I agree. Get it checked out but don't convince yourself yet that it's anything more than not being in fighting shape yet. But...get a check-up and ask your physician about it now!





CuongNhuka said:


> That's actually what I was told from the recruiter who told me I didn't need to worry about asthma. I'm actually going to a full check up before I go to Basic, so I geuss I'll find out soon enough.


Absolutely the course of action I would take. The mind is powerful - an ounce of prevention does not have to be a pound of conviction.  We all wish you the best for your health.


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## girlbug2 (Aug 6, 2008)

Sorry to go slightly off topic here. The banana myth must be busted. They are not even the best sources of potassium available. Examples of foods that are higher in potassium than bananas, per serving:

Yogurt
Fresh spinach
Apricots
Cod
Halibut
Pork
Rockfish
Beet greens 
Tomato paste
Blackstrap molasses (1 T)
cantaloupe

There are more, but that's just to give an idea that bananas are not the king supreme of potassium. If a recruit has access to these other foods, he should stock up his body on them regularly.

ETA: oh of course, I forgot the best part -- potatoes, sweet and regular, also do the job at nearly twice the rate as bananas


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2008)

To answer your other questions, even if it gets better, you can't serve.  If it has EVER appeared on any medical report, even childhood asthma disqualifies you.  

And on that note, if you goes into a private doctor's report and they find something, one of a few things can happen....1)  You can hide it from the military if you pass through MEPS.  Then they can find it later and you can be article 15'd or court martialed for false enslitment or falsifying a government document (incidentally, the same as when they ask you if you've ever done drugs.  If you say no and they ever find out....you're screwed).  2)  It will just get to the military anyway, they do ask for that stuff occassionally - old medical records and such.  That can happen before OR after you're in with much different consequences for the two.  Either way, you end up not in the military.  Bottom line is that if you know, TELL THEM.  DO NOT TRY TO HIDE IT.  That is by far the dumbest thing that you can do.  You are risking a lot if they ever find out.  

Now with that said.  I AM NOT, REPEAT, AM NOT saying that you should not get it checked out.  IF you feel that it is impacting your health and may be a long term problem or cause long term damage, you have the duty to yourself to find out from a credible source what it is.

I have the same problem, even with running every day.  When I push myself too hard, I have the same symptoms.  Now, my normal runs....no problem.  But it has gotten MUCH better since I started running regularly and knocking my time down....so basically I can push myself farther before it is a problem.  But I also have recognized through many repetitions that it only happens when I push too hard and is not a recurring problem.  I am also willing to deal with not knowing if it is something worse.  I'm not getting an MEB (Medical Evaluation Board) and be Medically DQ'd over something like that.  I've known three people who got kicked out over a single doctor's WRONG opinion.  Even when refuted by other doctor's, they were gone.  I knew another guy who got kicked out because a record of childhood asthma surfaced - and this guy was one of the fastest runners I've ever known, with no adult symptoms.  



morph4me said:


> Bear in mind that asthma is just one possibility, it could be any number of things, you could be getting a cold. See what a doctor says, there's no point in worrying about what it might be.


 
Even the cramping next day can be caused purely by pushing yourself too hard.  When I ran my fastest run time, my rib cage was sore for about 3 days, just like you describe.  I think that I have the exact same problems.  But I have never had asthma nor do I ever want to go to a doctor specifically asking about it.  I know my limits, I know what happens when I push them.  

As Morph says, it can be anything....personal opinion, you're pushing yourself too hard.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2008)

And don't go in to a doctor and tell him that you think you have asthma.  If you've got him, let him find it.  Describe the symptoms, but don't try to self diagnose.


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## jks9199 (Aug 6, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> And don't go in to a doctor and tell him that you think you have asthma.  If you've got him, let him find it.  Describe the symptoms, but don't try to self diagnose.


Which is often good advice anyway...

Go to the doc, and describe what happened.  Make a note of the date, and if you think of it, check air quality and pollen reports.  It may be as little as overstressed muscles, or simply responding to a crappy day... Don't tell the doc it's something worse!


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## arnisador (Aug 6, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> To answer your other questions, even if it gets better, you can't serve.  If it has EVER appeared on any medical report, even childhood asthma disqualifies you.



Are you sure this is still true? For all the services? They're issuing a _lot _of waivers these days...


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## MBuzzy (Aug 6, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Are you sure this is still true? For all the services? They're issuing a _lot _of waivers these days...


 
I'll give you that, there is a waiver for EVERYTHING, so I am sure that it is possible.  The regulations still state the asthma disqualifies you - primarily from worldwide deployment status, which in most cases, counts you out from the service as a whole.  

For medical waivers though, you need to convene an MEB - Medical Evaluation Board, which is a long, difficult, and painful process....and in the end, it comes down to the ranking doctor's call.  Plus, it is difficult to get an MEB convened if you're not in the service yet.  Once you're in, it is much easier, but it is usually a bad thing rather than a good thing.  MEBs are known for kicking people out, not for keeping them in.  My biggest worry would be that the MEB uncovers that you had knowledge of the condition before you joined and falsified documents.  That's bad juju.


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## Ninjamom (Aug 6, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> I actually just told *one of the recruiters *what happened (he called offering me an early ship to Basic, and I felt like I had to tell him why I might have to refuse). I told him everything, including the pain in my ribs, *he said it was because* I either didn't stretch well enough, or I'm just out of shape.


 
Keep in mind that these guys are rated and promoted based on how many warm bodies they send to boot camp.

PLEASE DO NOT assume this is your problem because 'one of the recruiters said.."

PLEASE DO go ahead with your plans to get checked out so you know what is going on with your health.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 7, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I'll give you that, there is a waiver for EVERYTHING, so I am sure that it is possible. The regulations still state the asthma disqualifies you - primarily from worldwide deployment status, which in most cases, counts you out from the service as a whole.


 
I actually have a budy who does have asthma, but just graduated from Basic with the Army.



Ninjamom said:


> Keep in mind that these guys are rated and promoted based on how many warm bodies they send to boot camp.


 
Actually, the recruiter who told me this is not my recruiter. And my recruiter is a Sergeant (instead of a Staff Sergeant) for a reason.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 7, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> I actually have a budy who does have asthma, but just graduated from Basic with the Army.


 
Ok, so what are all of the facts surrounding this?  When was he diagnosed?  When/has he been treated?  Treated in the last year?  Did he require/get a waiver?  Did he tell MEPS about it?  Did MEPS discover it on their own?  Did he hide the fact?

For every story of one person getting in, there's a story a one not getting in.  There are always more details though.

I'm looking for the Marine regs, although I don't have access to the Marine pubs sites (since I'm not in the Marines).  I have a Marine Capt friend here that I'll ask and see what he knows about current procedures.  It is possible that they have recently changed policy due to the severe need for soliders, based on severity of the asthma.

I can guarantee you one thing though, if you need the regular use of an inhaler or the asthma is a recurring problem for you, its going to take a strong waiver to get you in.

The only thing that I can think of is that they are being more relaxed on childhood asthma and mild cases, but I can't imagine them letting even those cases slide without a waiver.  You have to understand...the MOMENT that you sign on the dotted line, the US Government becomes medically responsible for you and any pre-existing conditions that you may have.  They get pretty upset if you have something costly and you just didn't bother to tell them.  If it develops while you're in, it is a different story, still an MEB, but they are now responsible for you, so they have to at least give care until you are separated in one way or another.

I can only speak with my 5 fives of experience in the military and leading troops, including plenty of E1-E3s.  Also, probably more than my share of troops with MEBs and medical problems - definately more than I ever wanted to deal with!  

Either way, get it checked out....and don't lie to the military.  Just looking out for your best interests.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 7, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Actually, the recruiter who told me this is not my recruiter. And my recruiter is a Sergeant (instead of a Staff Sergeant) for a reason.


 
Another one that you should have all of the facts about.  Not to split hairs, but that's an NCO that you're talking about.  In few days, NCO is going to be your new word for God.  If he is a SGT instead of SSGT, it could be for MANY reasons, including not enough time in grade, PCS issues, disciplinary, who knows.  I can't see him coming out to you and saying "Yep, I didn't get promoted because I didn't recruit enough people!"


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## Empty Hands (Aug 7, 2008)

You're just pushing too damn hard.  Running is a gradual training sport.  Hacking 1/3 of your previous best time off in one run is a very easy way to get hurt.  I did it myself when I started running, and hurt my knees so bad I could only walk for 2 weeks.  Train gradually and I am fairly sure you won't have this problem.


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## shesulsa (Aug 7, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> You're just pushing too damn hard.  Running is a gradual training sport.  Hacking 1/3 of your previous best time off in one run is a very easy way to get hurt.  I did it myself when I started running, and hurt my knees so bad I could only walk for 2 weeks.  Train gradually and I am fairly sure you won't have this problem.


I'd just about bet money that this is probably true ... but again, an ounce of prevention ...


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## MJS (Aug 7, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> No, I'm not kidding. I should probably tell you what happened.
> 
> I was running with the Marines today, and we did whats called the IST (Initial Strength Test), which includes a mile and a half run. It's not long, but today I was really pushing myself. Passing is 13 minutes, perfect is 9. Normally (because I'm more of a sprinter) I do pretty bad. OK, normally I do 14-15 minutes. Today, I did 10 minutes. So, I took 4 minutes off my mile and half time in the last month.
> 
> ...


 
Question...how long have you been preparing for this 1 1/2 mile run?  I ask this because if you havent been training for it, and think that you're just going to be able to go out and run with ease, you will find that you're going to keep feeling like you have been.  Sprinting and distance running are 2 different things.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 7, 2008)

Lots of good cautionary words I'm glad to see.

*CN*, back in the days before I turned into a middle-aged blimp I used to run a lot.  I got into 4-minute mile territory but even then found that adding more distance had a significant impact on time, much more so than would be proportional e.g. 1 mile in 4 minutes, 2 miles in 12.

I found the hard way that you can be fit and still not be able to meet a 'mark' because it was not what you trained for.  Your body gets used to doing what you demand of it and doesn't like it if you change the goal posts.  If you know you're a sprinter by nature but that distance running is going to be in your future then learning to pace yourself to a 'target' and not letting your natural inclination to 'speed' break through is going to be vital.

However, your symptoms suggest that it would really be wise to get checked out medically before pushing the envelope.  A young, fit, chap should be less likely to suffer such a reaction and the fact that it happened is a 'flag' to look for a rational reason before something bad happens.  My guess would be that you over-extended your rib-cage by trying to breathe too hard and that's what gave you pain in the floating-ribs/diaphram area.  Of course, that's not a medical opinion, just layman whose had similar when I started pushing too hard too soon.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 7, 2008)

MJS said:


> Question...how long have you been preparing for this 1 1/2 mile run? I ask this because if you havent been training for it, and think that you're just going to be able to go out and run with ease, you will find that you're going to keep feeling like you have been. Sprinting and distance running are 2 different things.


 
Well, that depends on how you look at it. I've been in the DEP (so, a recruit) since April. I've been working on my running for about 2 years (and only removing a few seconds a year, but that's a rant for another time). I've been physically training for about 6 years. 

So, you have a choice for how long.


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## MJS (Aug 7, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> Well, that depends on how you look at it. I've been in the DEP (so, a recruit) since April. I've been working on my running for about 2 years (and only removing a few seconds a year, but that's a rant for another time). I've been physically training for about 6 years.
> 
> So, you have a choice for how long.


 
Just so I'm reading this right....you've been working on distance running for about 2 years? You may find this interesting. You're free to read the entire thing, but focus first on the abstract. You may also find this an interesting read.

So, like I said, you need to train for what your goal is.  If the goal is distance, training for sprints isn't going to help.


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## army (Aug 8, 2008)

i just want to put out the marines are one of the hardest branches to get into  with any health issues they don't hand out waviers like the army does( which pisses me off) the army has gone to a smarter army instead of all bronze no birans, you can get into the military with some bearthing problems cuase as studies have shown some problems go away in other parts of the country. my best advice regards breathing pians is control your breathing inhale on left exhale on second right and stuff like that. well if the marines won't take you you can always look into the army and #1 thing find a job you will enjoy cuase you pick your job not your recuitor, anyways thats for servering with us


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## MJS (Aug 8, 2008)

army said:


> i my best advice regards breathing pians is control your breathing inhale on left exhale on second right and stuff like that.


 
I agree. I commented on proper breathing in one of my earlier posts.  When I jog, I use a method similar to what you said above.  I breath in and take my first step with my left.  I exhale on my 2nd left.  Ex:  Step with left and breath in, step with right, step with left and exhale.  I'm sure everyone will have their own version of what works for them, but this seems to work pretty good for me. 

Mike


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