# Kyokushin plus boxing cross training would this be a good base for getting into kickboxing comp?



## Brandon Miller (Mar 9, 2019)

My goal is to either get back into the mma circuit or into the competitive kickboxing curcuit. If I do kyokushin but cross training in boxing I there I would have very little gaps in stand up. I want to compete in knockdown tourneys when I can to prepare myself more for kickboxing. Unfortunately not a lot of knockdown tourneys are in abundance and I don’t want to travel around the country to compete for free. I feel I could defeat Thai boxers with a kyokushin and boxing combo. More dynamic kicks, better body shots than Thai boxing, head kicks from the clinch. Crisp boxing to go along with it. If I go the mma route I’m gonna just have to go through freestyle grappling like judo and combine it with my boxing. I just see myself being more succesful in the kickboxing scene. Scene I have competed in Amatuer boxing and in Amatuer mma. I have also been a striker but have struggled with grappling.


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## Headhunter (Mar 9, 2019)

If you want to kickbox then of kickboxing where you'll train with kickboxers.


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## frank raud (Mar 9, 2019)

Brandon, did you have a previous account? This all sounds familiar.


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 9, 2019)

You know what would be a good basis?
Stop waffling and go train in ANYTHING, at this point.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

Forget the kyoukushin ********, it's just dancing. Stick to boxing, it's what kickboxers actually rely on. Key word kickBOXER. There's a reason it's not kickkarate.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> You know what would be a good basis?
> Stop waffling and go train in ANYTHING, at this point.


According to other threads, he’s currently training Kyokushin.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Forget the kyoukushin ********, it's just dancing. Stick to boxing, it's what kickboxers actually rely on. Key word kickBOXER. There's a reason it's not kickkarate.


That’s one of the most asinine posts I’ve read in quite some time. You have no idea what Kyokushin is and which pro kickboxers came from it, do you?

Ever hear of K-1? Who founded it? Where did a lot of the talent come from?

Edit: And what’s up with the duck lips selfie? I haven’t seen very many guys do that in selfies.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Brandon, did you have a previous account? This all sounds familiar.


He’s posted quite a few similar threads, a little while back and recently.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> That’s one of the most asinine posts I’ve read in quite some time. You have no idea what Kyokushin is and which pro kickboxers came from it, do you?
> 
> Ever hear of K-1? Who founded it? Where did a lot of the talent come from?
> 
> Edit: And what’s up with the duck lips selfie? I haven’t seen very many guys do that in selfies.



Nah that's all oldschool **** that doesn't even work. Kyoukushin is "traditional karate" and that's enough for me to see that it's fake. Mas Oyama can kill bulls with it? Doesn't even matter, it's outdated man.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Nah that's all oldschool **** that doesn't even work. Kyoukushin is "traditional karate" and that's enough for me to see that it's fake. Mas Oyama can kill bulls with it? Doesn't even matter, it's outdated man.


Bare knuckle/full contact is never outdated. When I guy buries a roundhouse kick full force into your thigh and then gives you a few bare knuckle punches in the gut without pulling his punches, the feeling you get is anything but outdated. 

Forget stupid circus sideshow tricks like killing bulls, fighting bears and chopping the tops off of bottles with a knife hand strike. That was just a distraction to wow crowds back in the day. If you don’t think Kyokushin has any merit, go ahead and ask the MMA fanboys on a place like Bullshido who think just about everything is crap.

Fist meeting flesh hasn’t changed very much over the years. The concept is still the same - hit a guy hard and be able to take a hit. Old school, yet still just as relevant as it’s been since the beginning of time.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Bare knuckle/full contact is never outdated. When I guy buries a roundhouse kick full force into your thigh and then gives you a few bare knuckle punches in the gut without pulling his punches, the feeling you get is anything but outdated.
> 
> Forget stupid circus sideshow tricks like killing bulls, fighting bears and chopping the tops off of bottles with a knife hand strike. That was just a distraction to wow crowds back in the day. If you don’t think Kyokushin has any merit, go ahead and ask the MMA fanboys on a place like Bullshido who think just about everything is crap.
> 
> Fist meeting flesh hasn’t changed very much over the years. The concept is still the same - hit a guy hard and be able to take a hit. Old school, yet still just as relevant as it’s been since the beginning of time.



I guess I can see that, but in Kyokushin punches to the head are illegal. It's stupid, if you're going to use your fists, use them.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> I guess I can see that, but in Kyokushin punches to the head are illegal. It's stupid, if you're going to use your fists, use them.


That’s only in competition. It’s too easy to really mess someone up that way. 

Plenty of Kyokushin guys put on gloves and headgear in the dojo. Somehow people outside of Kyokushin think everyone only trains for Kyokushin competition.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> That’s only in competition. It’s too easy to really mess someone up that way.
> 
> Plenty of Kyokushin guys put on gloves and headgear in the dojo. Somehow people outside of Kyokushin think everyone only trains for Kyokushin competition.


Alright I'm willing to let this slide, Kyokushin is the only true form of karate. All other forms of Oriental martial arts are obsolete though and my mind can't be changed.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Alright I'm willing to let this slide, Kyokushin is the only true form of karate. All other forms of Oriental martial arts are obsolete though and my mind can't be changed.


I definitely know I’m not going to change your mind. And I’m not trying to. Thanks for letting Kyokushin slide though 

Kyokushin isn’t the only bare knuckle style out there. Look up Enshin and their Sabaki Challenge. Uechi Ryu is very hardcore depending on who’s teaching it. And so many more too. Don’t think karate is all tag game point fighting. 

Then there’s Judo. Nothing fake and obsolete about throwing a guy on the ground and choking him out or joint locking him. 

I could keep going, but I’m good right now.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I definitely know I’m not going to change your mind. And I’m not trying to. Thanks for letting Kyokushin slide though
> 
> Kyokushin isn’t the only bare knuckle style out there. Look up Enshin and their Sabaki Challenge. Uechi Ryu is very hardcore depending on who’s teaching it. And so many more too. Don’t think karate is all tag game point fighting.
> 
> ...


All sport martial arts are acceptable, but if you think your kata dances are going to aid you in a fight then you need to make like a tree and get outta here.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> All sport martial arts are acceptable, but if you think your kata dances are going to aid you in a fight then you need to make like a tree and get outta here.


I like kata, but everything’s got its place. Kata alone without any other drilling (related to it or unrelated to it) won’t make anyone a killer. But on the flip side, shadow boxing and working a bag without doing anything else won’t make a boxer a killer either. 

It’s easy to look badass doing kata. It’s also easy to look badass shadow boxing and working a bag. I used to hit the bag everyday at my local YMCA for about 6 months. Almost everyday someone came up to me and said I look great and I should compete. All I said every time was “that bag doesn’t get out of the way and hit me back.”

Kata’s only one part of training, just like shadow boxing is only one part of boxing training. Kata only becomes a stupid waste of time when that’s all you ever do. Just like shadow boxing would too.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> I like kata, but everything’s got its place. Kata alone without any other drilling (related to it or unrelated to it) won’t make anyone a killer. But on the flip side, shadow boxing and working a bag without doing anything else won’t make a boxer a killer either.
> 
> It’s easy to look badass doing kata. It’s also easy to look badass shadow boxing and working a bag. I used to hit the bag everyday at my local YMCA for about 6 months. Almost everyday someone came up to me and said I look great and I should compete. All I said every time was “that bag doesn’t get out of the way and hit me back.”
> 
> Kata’s only one part of training, just like shadow boxing is only one part of boxing training. Kata only becomes a stupid waste of time when that’s all you ever do. Just like shadow boxing would too.


Shadow boxing is pointless, just like kata. The only thing that matters to me is EFFICIENCY. The fact of the matter is, sparring works your endurance as well as everything you need in the real deal. A bag works your strength and endurance. The only thing a kata can work is your memory and movement. Footwork is important but you can work on actual footwork against an opponent. If someone punches you, are you really going to break out into kihon kata #2 and preform a middle block, lunge forward to punch, middle block the other way, lunge forward to punch etc...


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Shadow boxing is pointless, just like kata. The only thing that matters to me is EFFICIENCY. The fact of the matter is, sparring works your endurance as well as everything you need in the real deal. A bag works your strength and endurance. The only thing a kata can work is your memory and movement. Footwork is important but you can work on actual footwork against an opponent. If someone punches you, are you really going to break out into kihon kata #2 and preform a middle block, lunge forward to punch, middle block the other way, lunge forward to punch etc...


Shadow boxing does a lot for you. It works on your movement and putting combinations together that work efficiently for you. It teaches feeling how everything’s supposed to flow. And it can work up a good sweat. Its like getting technical on the bag rather than just going all out and throwing everything but the kitchen sink without hitting the bag. It’s just a drill, but it’s a good drill. Don’t take my word for it; look up videos of pro boxers training and you’ll see them doing it too. I’ve seen plenty of Mike Tyson shadow boxing clips, just to name one guy.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Shadow boxing does a lot for you. It works on your movement and putting combinations together that work efficiently for you. It teaches feeling how everything’s supposed to flow. And it can work up a good sweat. Its like getting technical on the bag rather than just going all out and throwing everything but the kitchen sink without hitting the bag. It’s just a drill, but it’s a good drill. Don’t take my word for it; look up videos of pro boxers training and you’ll see them doing it too. I’ve seen plenty of Mike Tyson shadow boxing clips, just to name one guy.


Who the hell is Mike Tyson?


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Who the hell is Mike Tyson?


You really can’t be serious. If you are in fact serious, Google is your friend here. Nuff said.


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## Clyde Cash (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> You really can’t be serious. If you are in fact serious, Google is your friend here. Nuff said.


Some past champion? No big deal


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## frank raud (Mar 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> He’s posted quite a few similar threads, a little while back and recently.


 I don't mean since November. About a year ago(maybe more) there was another guy from Texas with a background in amateur MMA asking similar questions.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Some past champion? No big deal


Only the hardest puncher in the history of boxing. No big deal.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

frank raud said:


> I don't mean since November. About a year ago(maybe more) there was another guy from Texas with a background in amateur MMA asking similar questions.


Not sure if it was or wasn’t him.


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## JR 137 (Mar 9, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> Some past champion? No big deal


No big deal. Not sped up...


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## Dominic82555 (May 4, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> According to other threads, he’s currently training Kyokushin.


The man asked a simply question, why should this be an attempt to be confrontational in response, geezzz  smh  I'm out of here on this one.


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## Headhunter (May 4, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Only the hardest puncher in the history of boxing. No big deal.


Lol this thread just appeared in notifications. Man I can't believe you gave this idiot the time of day


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## Tez3 (May 4, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> All sport martial arts are acceptable, but if you think your kata dances are going to aid you in a fight then you need to make like a tree and get outta here.



Oh dear. I can see you are one of those.

'make like a tree', pure nonsense. 




Dominic82555 said:


> The man asked a simply question, why should this be an attempt to be confrontational in response, geezzz  smh  I'm out of here on this one.



That man, has been here before and asked this before and didn't like the answers.


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## JR 137 (May 4, 2019)

Dominic82555 said:


> The man asked a simply question, why should this be an attempt to be confrontational in response, geezzz  smh  I'm out of here on this one.


What confrontation? Someone asked if was training anything, and I said according to another thread he’s training Kyokushin.


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## JR 137 (May 4, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Lol this thread just appeared in notifications. Man I can't believe you gave this idiot the time of day


It was fun while it lasted. It was one of those nights where I was bored and had nothing better to do than seeing how far his stupidity would sink.


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## Headhunter (May 4, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> It was fun while it lasted. It was one of those nights where I was bored and had nothing better to do than seeing how far his stupidity would sink.


And the answer was very very stupid


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## Headhunter (May 4, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear. I can see you are one of those.
> 
> 'make like a tree', pure nonsense.
> 
> ...


Lol the clown got banned ages ago I didn't even get a chance to reply to any of his bs before he was gone


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## JR 137 (May 4, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> Lol the clown got banned ages ago I didn't even get a chance to reply to any of his bs before he was gone


He was here for a night. The village idiots usually take a while to get banned, but I could tell this guy was going to be gone quick, so I got as much in as I could.


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## Dominic82555 (May 5, 2019)

Tez3 said:


> Oh dear. I can see you are one of those.
> 
> 'make like a tree', pure nonsense.
> 
> ...


My bad,  I did a little research and he's all over the place with the same non sense smh. Who is he Rasputin?


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## frank raud (Jun 11, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Brandon, did you have a previous account? This all sounds familiar.


I knew this sounded familiar     http://www.martialtalk.com/search/30837896/


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## dvcochran (Jun 11, 2019)

I thought this idiot was kicked off the forum?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 11, 2019)

frank raud said:


> I knew this sounded familiar     http://www.martialtalk.com/search/30837896/


Frank, that search shows up as unavailable. What was the previous account name?


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## frank raud (Jun 11, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Frank, that search shows up as unavailable. What was the previous account name?


BmillerWarrior.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 12, 2019)

frank raud said:


> BmillerWarrior.


Thanks.


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## pdg (Jun 12, 2019)

Clyde Cash said:


> If someone punches you, are you really going to break out into kihon kata #2 and preform a middle block, lunge forward to punch, middle block the other way, lunge forward to punch etc...



Old post, guy's gone etc. But anyway...

Does anyone really think that is the actual intention of kata - that it's a scripted response to a fight situation?


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## drop bear (Jun 12, 2019)

pdg said:


> Old post, guy's gone etc. But anyway...
> 
> Does anyone really think that is the actual intention of kata - that it's a scripted response to a fight situation?



Ian Abernathy?


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## drop bear (Jun 12, 2019)

By the way I loved the back to the future reference.


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## dvcochran (Jun 12, 2019)

pdg said:


> Old post, guy's gone etc. But anyway...
> 
> Does anyone really think that is the actual intention of kata - that it's a scripted response to a fight situation?


I think many were originally intended to be that way. At least I hope so. There are many newer (to me) forms that have lost some of the purely self defense purpose however.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Ian Abernathy?


I haven't watched a bunch of Iain Abernethy's stuff, so it's possible I've missed it, but I've not seen him refer to kata as a script for a given situation. He seems, instead, to take combinations and look for sequences in kata that can be used to examine parts (or even the whole combination).


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I think many were originally intended to be that way. At least I hope so. There are many newer (to me) forms that have lost some of the purely self defense purpose however.


You think they were intended to be a specific script that could be followed, as opposed to a way to practice combinations?


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## drop bear (Jun 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I haven't watched a bunch of Iain Abernethy's stuff, so it's possible I've missed it, but I've not seen him refer to kata as a script for a given situation. He seems, instead, to take combinations and look for sequences in kata that can be used to examine parts (or even the whole combination).



Tries to shoe horn Kata in to practical application.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Tries to shoe horn Kata in to practical application.


I don't see that as the same thing as it being a script. I agree he puts a lot of effort into finding practical application in it. I don't think it's necessary - kata is fine as just a method of practicing movement. That said, I don't really see an issue with folks who enjoy and find value in the intellectual pursuit of working with kata that way.


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## dvcochran (Jun 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> You think they were intended to be a specific script that could be followed, as opposed to a way to practice combinations?


I don't really see a difference, other than forms are usually longer than individual move or combination sequences. 
I see it as part of the repetition component. People are generally going to respond with what they practice. Hopefully what they practice is sound SD, whatever format they train in. I think I do find myself stressing what a persons mindset is when practicing forms. You cannot only practice the How or you will only learn a sequence of moves chained together. Dangerously close to a dance. A person must focus on the Why. That is how a form has a Martial component and how a person translates the moves into a SD tool.


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## drop bear (Jun 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I don't see that as the same thing as it being a script. I agree he puts a lot of effort into finding practical application in it. I don't think it's necessary - kata is fine as just a method of practicing movement. That said, I don't really see an issue with folks who enjoy and find value in the intellectual pursuit of working with kata that way.



It just isn't practical as you are using the wrong basis for your scientific method. 

So you start by observing that Kata works. And then you try to apply it to a fight. 

Rather than observing what works in a fight and changing the Kata.,


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 14, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I don't really see a difference, other than forms are usually longer than individual move or combination sequences.
> I see it as part of the repetition component. People are generally going to respond with what they practice. Hopefully what they practice is sound SD, whatever format they train in. I think I do find myself stressing what a persons mindset is when practicing forms. You cannot only practice the How or you will only learn a sequence of moves chained together. Dangerously close to a dance. A person must focus on the Why. That is how a form has a Martial component and how a person translates the moves into a SD tool.


Okay, let me see if I can explain the difference, as I see it. A combination is a set of moves that can be chained together. A script is how something will happen. So, I can practice jab-cross-hook or jab-slip-close or jab-jab-clinch. Any of those are things that could potentially be used as openings present. A script assumes specific progression, and predicts how things will go, and says "I am the answer if things start this way". So, if someone throws a right haymaker, I'll be able to block it, pass it to my right, step in and apply downward force to shift the shoulders back, step hip-to-hip, and sweep. If we call that a script, we're saying that's how it will go. If we say that is a combo, we're saying that's a chain of movements that flows. It's semantics, but important semantics, because one of the complaints people lodge about some forms is that they present solutions that aren't likely to get to continue the way they are shown, because the other guy won't follow your script. So, if we say those things are scripts, then we have to acknowledge that argument is accurate - the other guy won't follow the script most of the time. But if they're just a way to practice movements that can chain together, then we're not stuck in a script.

It's only different in perspective. I kind of agree with you, except I've had these discussions often enough that I know what folks mean when they call it a script.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 14, 2019)

drop bear said:


> It just isn't practical as you are using the wrong basis for your scientific method.
> 
> So you start by observing that Kata works. And then you try to apply it to a fight.
> 
> Rather than observing what works in a fight and changing the Kata.,


I think he actually finds a move he likes (something he finds works for him) and then looks for it in kata. Again, that's based on a limited viewing of his work.


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## dvcochran (Jun 14, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Okay, let me see if I can explain the difference, as I see it. A combination is a set of moves that can be chained together. A script is how something will happen. So, I can practice jab-cross-hook or jab-slip-close or jab-jab-clinch. Any of those are things that could potentially be used as openings present. A script assumes specific progression, and predicts how things will go, and says "I am the answer if things start this way". So, if someone throws a right haymaker, I'll be able to block it, pass it to my right, step in and apply downward force to shift the shoulders back, step hip-to-hip, and sweep. If we call that a script, we're saying that's how it will go. If we say that is a combo, we're saying that's a chain of movements that flows. It's semantics, but important semantics, because one of the complaints people lodge about some forms is that they present solutions that aren't likely to get to continue the way they are shown, because the other guy won't follow your script. So, if we say those things are scripts, then we have to acknowledge that argument is accurate - the other guy won't follow the script most of the time. But if they're just a way to practice movements that can chain together, then we're not stuck in a script.
> 
> It's only different in perspective. I kind of agree with you, except I've had these discussions often enough that I know what folks mean when they call it a script.


In that definition of a script, I fully agree. One reason I feel forms get a bad rap from some people is when they are the primary learning tool and they are not at all or poorly translated to real world scenarios. I see them as a tool, but as a compliment to sparring and practicing technique and one/two/three steps with power, speed, and variety. I do think they should give a person a greater choice, a wider set of skills and therefore more options to choose from for a given attack. That obviously would not be scripted, but in the vein of repetition, I am sure some would argue that the average class is largely scripted.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 14, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> In that definition of a script, I fully agree. One reason I feel forms get a bad rap from some people is when they are the primary learning tool and they are not at all or poorly translated to real world scenarios. I see them as a tool, but as a compliment to sparring and practicing technique and one/two/three steps with power, speed, and variety. I do think they should give a person a greater choice, a wider set of skills and therefore more options to choose from for a given attack. That obviously would not be scripted, but in the vein of repetition, I am sure some would argue that the average class is largely scripted.


My personal view of forms is that they have a range of uses, and not all forms (maybe none?) fit all those uses. Some are closer to likely application, while some are more stylized. Some contain more likely combinations (and therefor transitions), while others are focused on getting in as many techniques as possible.

All the ones I've seen (if they go beyond single step or two) are good for practicing smoothing transitions between movements. All seem to be good for working balance and muscle control. Most are good for visualizing working with an actual person. Many are good for examining the relationships between techniques by the transitions that link them. Most are good for working up a sweat, warming up for some serious work. Most are good for a moving meditation, once you get past the "what comes next?" stage.


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## pdg (Jun 18, 2019)

There we go 

It could be reasoned that responding to a punch by using "parry, cross" could be considered using moves 16 and 17 from "X" kata from such and such art. That could be considered finding application.

What wouldn't work is launching into a 30 move kata and expecting it to all fit...

The latter is what the post I initially quoted appeared to suggest.


And unfortunately, I got an in-person answer the other day. A couple of teenagers in class asked me about a section of a pattern where there's a 180 turn - "why are you turning away from the person you're fighting?"

After attempting to go through various explanations about how it's not a full script for a real fight the only answer they'd accept was "you've finished dealing with that person and now you turn to get the next one".


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2019)

pdg said:


> There we go
> 
> It could be reasoned that responding to a punch by using "parry, cross" could be considered using moves 16 and 17 from "X" kata from such and such art. That could be considered finding application.
> 
> ...



And even then you would skip around the first person and 180 rather than give your back.

My guess is mechanically, you would quite simply run out of room if you didn't put the turns in there.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> And even then you would skip around the first person and 180 rather than give your back.
> 
> My guess is mechanically, you would quite simply run out of room if you didn't put the turns in there.


Absolutely. When I first created the forms I teach, I had to go back and change some turns and directions, because they took up enormous amounts of space. Seriously, only one person at a time could do them, unless you were in an empty warehouse.


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## pdg (Jun 19, 2019)

drop bear said:


> And even then you would skip around the first person and 180 rather than give your back.
> 
> My guess is mechanically, you would quite simply run out of room if you didn't put the turns in there.



Certainly possible.

You could also take it in isolation (just the turn part) and say you might be responding to something behind.

Or, that the turns are there to help develop balance and control.


There are 270 and 360 turns/spins/jumps in some too - I can't think of many practical applications for those (over flash and body control).


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## JR 137 (Jun 19, 2019)

My former teacher taught the turns (particularly the 90 degree and 180 turns) as bringing/forcing your opponent that direction. Take Taikyoku 1 and Pinan 1 for example: in the beginning there’s a 90 turn to the left with a simultaneous “low block” and a 180 turn with the same block. If the block is used as an arm bar (chambering hand holding the wrist and blocking forearm across the tricep), the 90 degree turn to the right would break the arm and throw the opponent pretty good. The step through and punch on the next count would add insult to injury. Same arm bar, step straight back and pivot 180 degrees such as the turn in the kata does the same thing, only more so.

Think about how you’re supposed to turn 180 degrees; it’s not a regular quick turn. It’s the front foot reaching back, turn your head, then basically twist your torso. I’ve heard many teachers say your belt ends should swing from your momentum. If you do it that way, the mechanics of your turn generate quite a bit of power to really force your opponent in that direction pretty easily when you’ve got their elbow locked as I described earlier. And if you step back pretty far/deeply before the turn, it generates more momentum. Hence teachers stressing deep stances. The 90 degree turn is specific in footwork too and not just a “face that way” thing.

I wish I had some video to show it.


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## JR 137 (Jun 19, 2019)

Something along the lines of what I was talking about, but you’ve got to use your imagination a bit here. The video kinda shows what I’m getting at, but not really. I don’t like the setup. Picture a hard arm grab by the attacker. Grab the wrist and turn it over while doing the “low block” to where she’s doing it on the attacker. Keep the trapped wrist and keep your blocking arm on their arm. Only instead of going straight forward, your front foot goes straight back, and you twist your torso and bring your “blocking arm” down while it’s still right behind their elbow.

That strong and deep step back and twist will send him flying. And break his arm. I haven’t done it full force, but I’ve practiced it under some pretty good resistance. It’s worked. The tricky part is the initial turning over of the opponent’s grabbing arm.






Edit: She’s grabbing the wrong arm in that video too. If the opponent’s right hand grabs, you trap that hand with your left, and use your right arm across their tricep. Damn I wish there was something better I could find.


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## JR 137 (Jun 19, 2019)

Even better regarding the turns...

Watch the video at about 2:35 when he applies the inside-out block as an arm lock. He starts turning with it. Now picture the typical 180 kata turn - foot goes straight back as the block is set, forceful twist of the torso while the block is being done. Block and turn stop at the same time. Belt ends swing from the force generated by the turn. 

Now those stupid turns make sense. You’re not turning to face someone attacking you; you’re turning so you can send your attacker in that direction. 

The I agree with practically everything in the video. IMO it’s a great video, even if Jesse’s personality and squirrellyness annoys the sh!t out of me.


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