# super 8: Military the bad guys, again?



## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Haven't seen the movie yet but this review in particular makes me want to see it a lot less.  From the review it appears that once again the american military are the real bad guys in the movie while the dangerous alien is a victim.  Has anyone else seen it and are the american military killing civillians in the movie?

The review:

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/k...an-military-as-the-villain-again/#more-483248

From the review:

Look at the far superior _Close Encounters_.  The American military is an _obstacle_ to the hero, not a malignant _enemy_.   There, the military (and other agencies) are trying to make contact  with the aliens; the military is benignly keeping folks away from  Devil&#8217;s Tower.  But in _Super 8_, they _murder_ them &#8211; and that&#8217;s not an off-hand, one-time event but a key plot point. 

-------------------------------------------------------

If you have seen the movie, is this true?


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## elder999 (Jun 14, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Haven't seen the movie yet but this review in particular makes me want to see it a lot less. From the review it appears that once again the american military are  it appears in the movie while the dangerous alien is a victim. Has anyone else seen it and are the american military killing civillians in the movie?
> 
> The review:
> 
> ...


 
Who cares???????????????????????????????????????????????????

_Haven't seen the movie yet
Haven't seen the movie yet
Haven't seen the movie yet
  a key plot point. 
Haven't seen the movie yet
the american military 
in the movie 
dangerous alien 
in the movie 
 it appears 
the real bad guys
in the movie
killing civilians?
a victim
in the movie
it appears._


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## Ramirez (Jun 14, 2011)

lol.....Bill are you serious? It's a frickin sci-fi movie. You think Spielberg and Abrams actually sat down and decided to write a film with the express purpose of making the military the bad guy?
What they are interested in is 
1) box office
2) box office
3) box office
4) putting together an entertaining movie so the previous 3 considerations are taken care of.


This is bordering on paranoia with you now.

Actually if it makes you feel better the movie is an allegory for the control that the Obama government has taken over US civil liberties , obviously he is planning on suborning the military in order to kill American civilians...feel better now?


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## granfire (Jun 14, 2011)

Ramirez said:


> lol.....Bill are you serious? It's a frickin sci-fi movie. You think Spielberg and Abrams actually sat down and decided to write a film with the express purpose of making the military the bad guy?
> What they are interested in is
> 1) box office
> 2) box office
> ...



:lfao:


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## Ramirez (Jun 14, 2011)

secret military operations= big government

big government/control of military by government = socialist (see Hitler was a socialist threads)

I therefore pronounce Super 8 a libertarian film, anti socialist.

Please go out an see the film , watch you don't get poked in the eye by cigarette holder using Ayn Rand wannabees while standing in line to buy your ticket.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 14, 2011)

I haven't seen the movie yet; probably will this weekend.  Billcihak, methinks you're hyperfocusing on this anti-military agenda idea.  I doubt the writers or directors are actively trying to badmouth the military for some political reason.  More likely:

1. They're following an established sci-fi plot scheme involving alien encounters and government cover-ups (ET, Men in Black, Close Encounters, Independence Day, etc.)
2. If you're trying to write a movie plot about a group of civilians trying to uncover the truth about an alien encounter, the military is the perfect entity to put in place to oppose them, whether as an obstacle or an enemy. It just makes sense.

Like I said, haven't seen the film yet.  I doubt the film will depict the military itself in a malevolent light, but perhaps I'm wrong.


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## Big Don (Jun 14, 2011)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> I doubt the film will depict the military itself in a malevolent light, but perhaps I'm wrong.


I hope you are right, but, there have been a hole slew of films the in the past few years where the US military and/or the US itself is the bad guy.


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## granfire (Jun 14, 2011)

Big Don said:


> I hope you are right, but, there have been a hole slew of films the in the past few years where the US military and/or the US itself is the bad guy.



Somebody has to be the bad guy....


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## Big Don (Jun 14, 2011)

granfire said:


> Somebody has to be the bad guy....


Yeah, but, isn't it a little disgusting that in the last few years, while fighting terrorists, the US military is made out as the bad guy?


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 14, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Yeah, but, isn't it a little disgusting that in the last few years, while fighting terrorists, the US military is made out as the bad guy?


 
Perhaps.  Try to remember though:

1.) Totalizing is generally a bad idea.  This writer or that director may have a beef with the U.S. government and/or military, but that doesn't mean all of Hollywood has an agenda.

2.) Even if the military's painted in a bad light, ask yourself whether it's deliberate or is simply incidental to the overall film production.  Like I said, with sci-fi movies in general and alien encounter films in particular, the military is both a common and a logical opponent of choice.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 14, 2011)

The military killed E.T.!  NEVER FORGET!!!!!!


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 14, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> The military killed E.T.! NEVER FORGET!!!!!!


 
But then again, short wrinkley dude touching fingertips with a young boy?  That's just creepy.  :rofl:


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## Big Don (Jun 14, 2011)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> But then again, short wrinkley dude touching fingertips with a young boy?  That's just creepy.  :rofl:


I was going to say the little weirdo had it coming, but, you beat me too it. 
ET was lucky they didn't shoot down the bicycle...


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 14, 2011)

Also, some similar threads from the bygone days:

TinselTown_Liberals

I could have sworn there was a second one I'd participated in even further back, but I can't find it.


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## Omar B (Jun 14, 2011)

Another retarded thread about a movie he didn't see, book he didn't read or like the time he did the Obama quote as a topic title that he didn't say.  Good to have a dumb, conspiracy theorist around though.


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## granfire (Jun 14, 2011)

Big Don said:


> Yeah, but, isn't it a little disgusting that in the last few years, while fighting terrorists, the US military is made out as the bad guy?




The police has been the bad guy plenty of times (you know, when you tell a story from the view of a criminal)
Militaries have shown around the world that they can indeed be the bad guys.

What was that Broderic flic? Wargames? Military? Not all good (and pretty darn stupid, too)

Does that mean anything? Not really. 
What was it what Steven King said, something like 'I put my characters into a situation and see how they react'? I am sure somebody can find the actual quote by him.

But I am sure that even guys in uniform can appreciate a film with the Army being the bad guy, because there is always some A-hole making life hell for them, so there has to be some merit to it?

But according to my personal observations, the majority of people are not deep thinkers.
That meaning they can sing along song lyrics just fine that are disgusting/offensive/stupid with no harm to their psyche, because they don't pay attention. 
A movie is a 90 minute amusement with hardly any deeper impact. 
Thus the industry caters to that. And who has the best background for awesome pyro-technic special effects? The Army. Lot's of things that go BOOM. makes for good money at the box office...

Breitarse is writing this crap to make money, anybody giving it a serious second glance is over thinking it.

(reminds me when my mom got all upset because I had an art project with 'anti mom' theme....objection was to pervert advertising....didn't think a lick about my mom, just on how to warp the cheery 'do something nice for mom' sentiment. I was flabberghasted when she was all upset....)


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Careful Omar, you seem to be walking the line with your comments.  A little respect please.  You may not like the thread, but at least be civil.


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

All of you who think this is a silly thread might want to talk to some vietnam vets about how they have been portrayed in the media since the end of the war.  Here is an article that discusses the truth about vietnam vets, the ones who outperformed their civillian peers, had normal lives, and were benefits to their communities.  The media created the psychotic, drug addicted vietnam vet who committed atrocities for fun.  That image has haunted these guys since they came home.  Now, the typical vet is portrayed as a brain damaged victim.  At least they may have gotten past the atrocity committing psycho image, but that still remains to be seen.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LIY/is_7_90/ai_98829331/

From the article:

As the years progressed, Martinez and the Cranes inwardly seethed as cultural views about Vietnam veterans solidified around a negative stereotype.

In society's eyes, the Vietnam veteran became a homeless misfit, so deeply scarred by his wartime experience that he could not lead a happy, productive life. Worse yet, society imagined the Vietnam veteran as a violent psychotic in the mold of Rambo, Sylvester Stallone's characterization of a deranged Vietnam veteran who turns his explosive rage on society.


ietnam vets have long complained of the offensive misrepresentations.

"It's an insult to good people," says Brad Bradshaw, a Fairfax County, Va. magistrate who served as a navigator on board an AC-130 gunship over Vietnam. "To make us out as crazed animals--that's just wrong."

Jan Scruggs, founder of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C., points but that Vietnam veterans are among the most successful members of society. Their ranks include FBI Director Robert Mueller; AOL founder James Kimsey; and E*Trade CEO Christos Cotsakos.

"Veterans have succeeded in areas ranging from law enforcement to the clergy," Scruggs says. "The successful veteran is the norm." And yet, he adds: "The image of the troubled Vietnam vet pervades American popular culture."

In 1999, Calvin and Christel Crane--fed up by still another television show depicting negative views of the Vietnam veteran--decided to take action.

____________________________________

The media perpetuated the worst stereotypes of the vietnam vet and they did it through movies and television.  This stuff does have an effect.


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

This is how the media has distorted the vets of just one war and here are some real stats:

The Cranes found that as of 1985, for example, eight of every 10 Vietnam veterans were married to their first spouse. Of that number, 90% had children. Also in 1985, 30% of Vietnam veterans had attended college, as compared to 24% of their non-military peers. In 1994, the unemployment rate for all men over age 18 was 6%; for Vietnam veterans, the rate was 3.9%.

The Cranes compiled other eye-opening statistics. For example, in contrast to the myth perpetuated by Platoon (Oliver Stone's 1987 film) that servicemen in Vietnam indulged in murderous, dope-fueled misdeeds, the vast majority behaved admirably. Nearly all--97%--were honorably discharged from the service. Today, 90% who saw heavy combat say they are proud to have served.

Additionally, the Cranes found, the Rambo-inspired myth of the Vietnam veteran as criminal is pure fiction. Numerous studies have concluded that a statistically insignificant number of Vietnam veterans landed in prison after returning home.

---------------------------------------

Movie after movie depicting military personel as the bad guys has an effect on the culture, and this negative effect impacts the silliness you see coming from the left in politics and academia as it attacks the military.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 14, 2011)

Consider the implications if we take the author seriously.  The military must be lauded and any criticism of the military must, at the very least, be limited to the minority.  Criticism of the military is evidence of un-American or un-patriotic feeling or temper.

Is this really the path that the "government is evil" crowd should really want us to go down?  Worship of state power and refusal to criticize the same?

The reality is that movies need antagonists to add drama and make the film interesting.  Sometimes that antagonist will be the military.  Or a secret government agency.  Or a cabal of assassins and spies.  Or religious leaders.  Or the neighbors.  And so on.  Why must we assign special criteria to one set of film antagonists but not the others?

Why would a "small government conservative" who is absolutely terrified to hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" want us to refuse to criticize only one part of the government?


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## elder999 (Jun 14, 2011)

Empty Hands said:


> Why would a "small government conservative" who is absolutely terrified to hear "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" want us to refuse to criticize only one part of the government?


 
And the LARGEST part, at that?



> The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers *no such engine of oppression as a standing army*. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so.*Thomas Jefferson*


 
[


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## Twin Fist (Jun 14, 2011)

the military, those among us with the bravery to stand up and fight, and lay it all on the line, for the sake of the rest of us deserve a little better than what has happened to them since vietnam.


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## Omar B (Jun 14, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Careful Omar, you seem to be walking the line with your comments.  A little respect please.  You may not like the thread, but at least be civil.



Don't issue me warnings about the rules here.  Respect is earned, not given simply because you ask in a thread.  Acting civil is also something you should not be admonishing anyone about after doing something as uncivil as posting a thread with a quote from Obama in the topic that he never even said, and you admitted as much, lies are never civil.


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Every movie needs a villain but I don't have to lay down my money on a movie that uses the military as the villain, that's all.  Movie after movie that portrays the people who serve in the military as more than willing to murder civillians gets pretty old.  I had planned on seeing Super 8, but then I heard that it was a kid bonding movie, so I was a little less eager to see it.  I read this review and it says the military kills civillians to cover up this alien creature and I am less likely to see it.  It was like the movie "The crazies."  In that movie the military also massacered civillians to cover up the spread of the chemical.  Not very original.


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Which one was that omar?


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## Omar B (Jun 14, 2011)

"Obama says, 'I'll rlease photos when politically expedient'"  I know, lies are hard to remember, so much less concrete than the truth.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 14, 2011)

wether you think he deserves respect or not you had best keep a civil tone, the rules have tightened up round these parts, and you might find yourself in trouble if you continue this way

free advice..


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Hmmm...yeah,... that's a lie, you are way too observant to sneak that one past you. I sit here in shame thinking about the great deception I perpetrated on the wonderful people here on the study. I will go off now and seek redemption for my misdeed....I'm back.


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## billc (Jun 14, 2011)

Omar, could you tell me exactly which post that is so I can repost it and people can see exactly how I deceived the readers here at the study?


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## girlbug2 (Jun 14, 2011)

Bill, while I am against the idea that the US military is "the bad guy", this is hardly a new trend in cinema. Any kind of institution or authority is distrusted in our times. There are some good reasons for this.

Vietnam--both the reality of soldiers with problems like PTSD and the way they were negatively portrayed in the media

Watergate scandal

Rising Divorce rate

Media portrayal of all kinds of corruption from authority figures, incl. the clergy and gov't

http://news.stanford.edu/pr/98/980821genx.html

Moreover, popular commentators have not merely rediscovered classical forms of anomie that sociologists have long discussed, because the Generation X variant of disaffection does not emerge from social isolation and the absence of meaningful, binding social ties, the researchers said. It stems instead from the view that major familial, work and political institutions are rife with corruption and winding down, with no obvious regenerative forces or possibilities in sight. 

Gen X is currently writing and making the movies.


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## Omar B (Jun 14, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Omar, could you tell me exactly which post that is so I can repost it and people can see exactly how I deceived the readers here at the study?



http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1390901#post1390901


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## Sukerkin (Jun 14, 2011)

Gentlemen and ladies, just a small word about the regulations of the board, especially with the new (and not before time) harder line.

If you feel that an individual has crossed into breaching the 'spirit of the law', then report it via the accepted channels.  

There is no such thing as a 'citizens arrest' here at MT - a friendly warning that someone is in danger of getting into hot water is a different thing than trying to use the rules as a club to beat someone whose views you do not like or who is giving you a hard time.

So, rather than being tempted to 'have a go yourself',  bring it to the attention of those who *do* have a role to play in helping the board to function smoothly and without undue vitriol.  

However, it is important to bear in mind that if too many allegations are deemed to be unfounded then you might find that that 'hot water' has a way of finding yourself instead.

Hopefully, we are all adults here and can normally resolve things without resorting to 'litigation'.  In those cases where we cannot, that is what that little triangle with an exclamation mark within it (on the right-hand side of the banner line of every post) is for.  As with the communication cord on a train, make sure the situation warrants it before you pull it.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Mentor


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## Twin Fist (Jun 14, 2011)

as someone that has been on the the recieving end of the beat down, i try to let folks know when, IMO, they are getting close to that level...


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## CanuckMA (Jun 15, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Additionally, the Cranes found, the Rambo-inspired myth of the Vietnam veteran as criminal is pure fiction. Numerous studies have concluded that a statistically insignificant number of Vietnam veterans landed in prison after returning home.


 

They did not see the same Rambo movie, and certaintly did not read the book to have that kind of view. The movie takes a bit of creative license to make it more entertaining, but the message I got loud and clear was of Rambo as a good guy, who did everything his country asked of him, only to be persecuted by the small town sheriff.


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## Grenadier (Jun 15, 2011)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*

We do allow a bit more leeway in the Study, since opinions can (and do) get heated when discussion such matter.  Heat is fine, all-out flames are NOT okay.  

If you don't like what someone says, then use the "ignore" feature.  You are always free to use the "ignore" feature if you feel that someone's postings aren't worth your time.  

Remember, it takes two to tango.  

That being said, let's keep this discussion civil. 

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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## WC_lun (Jun 15, 2011)

Its an alien movie...like most alien movies the military plays a protagonist part.  No one is persecuting US military personel with this movie.  I'm willing to bet that many US military personel saw the movie and actually enjoyed it.  This smells more like an attempt to paint Hollywood people as anti-American or unpatriotic because they dared produce a film where the military isn't potrayed as the hero...which there are films where they are the hero.  The best thing that can be said about this article is it stinks, a lot.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 15, 2011)

did you miss the last couple weeks on planet earth?

since you apparently missed it, the story broke last week with dozens of high level players in hollywood admitting that they push a leftist agenda in thier writing, programming, and hiring.

one part of that is paint in the military in the typical murtha fashion.

no one can really deny this


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 15, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> did you miss the last couple weeks on planet earth?
> 
> since you apparently missed it, the story broke last week with dozens of high level players in hollywood admitting that they push a leftist agenda in thier writing, programming, and hiring.
> 
> ...


 
Actually yeah I have missed this.  Which major players stated this?


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## Tez3 (Jun 15, 2011)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Actually yeah I have missed this. Which major players stated this?


 
Missed it too so I Googled. It seems there's a book out alleging that Hollywood is full of people trying to push a left wing agenda. If it's true they are doing a dismal job, America is the most conservative country just about in the world and the rest of the world simply hasn't noticed the left wing content of Hollywood's output, probably because that too is right wing by true socialists standards! 
What we non American see in Hollywood films is the pushing of the American way of life and every so often especially in war films a bias towards claiming Americans won everything! We just put it down to patriotism and get on with our lives. If there's a left wing bias in Hollywood made films it passes over most people's heads unless you are somewhat paranoid about finding reds under the beds.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 15, 2011)

Tez3 said:


> Missed it too so I Googled. It seems there's a book out alleging that Hollywood is full of people trying to push a left wing agenda. If it's true they are doing a dismal job, America is the most conservative country just about in the world and the rest of the world simply hasn't noticed the left wing content of Hollywood's output, probably because that too is right wing by true socialists standards!
> What we non American see in Hollywood films is the pushing of the American way of life and every so often especially in war films a bias towards claiming Americans won everything! We just put it down to patriotism and get on with our lives. If there's a left wing bias in Hollywood made films it passes over most people's heads unless you are somewhat paranoid about finding reds under the beds.


 
Yeah, I googled it too, seems some conservative_poster_child published a book alleging a deliberate agenda by Hollywood.  I haven't been watching a whole lot of news, but this book certainly flew under my radar.  

When one of the first links I found to give a name was one featuring The 700 Club, I kinda dismissed the notion that it was something serious.  :rofl:


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## Twin Fist (Jun 15, 2011)

that would be a serious mistake on your part.

this story is real, and it is indisputable, regardless of what some people from across the pond like to crow off about. As if they have the slightest clue what goers on in Hollywood...

Two prominent Hollywood conservatives have quit the Caucus for Producers, Writers & Directors, in response to remarks made by some Caucus members that they believe exposes a liberal bias in Hollywood.

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/06/conservative_blacklisting_in_hollywood.html

Another video rolling out soon has "House" creator David Shore acknowledging that "there is an assumption in this town that everybody is on the left side of the spectrum, and that the few people on the right side, I think people look at them somewhat aghast, and I'm sure it doesn't help them."


In the book, subtitled "The true Hollywood story of how the left took over your TV," Shapiro also tells anecdotes of bias against conservatives. One example is Dwight Schultz, best known for his roles as Murdock in "The A-Team" and Barclay in "Star Trek: The Next Generation."

*The late Bruce Paltrow knew that Schultz was a fan of President Ronald Reagan. When Schultz showed up to audition for "St. Elsewhere," a show Paltrow produced, to read for the part of Fiscus, Paltrow told him: "There's not going to be a Reagan a--hole on this show!" The part went to Howie Mandel.*

"Most nepotism in Hollywood isn't familial, it's ideological," Shapiro writes in the book. "Friends hire friends. And those friends just happen to share their politics."

http://forums.liveleak.com/showthread.php?p=1257852


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## Ramirez (Jun 15, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> this story is real, and it is indisputable, regardless of what some people from across the pond like to crow off about. As if they have the slightest clue what goers on in Hollywood...



  Yeah it is not as if Tez is a Hollywood insider like you,  with access to all those internet sites.

  Crow off about?  That was the most reasonable post in this whole thread, if there is a liberal bias in H-Wood , it makes not one whit of difference because no one is noticing.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 15, 2011)

thats how propaganda works, you DONT KNOW you are being indoctrinated


DUH

and clearly people are noticing, just not the people already of leftist leanings


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> *thats how propaganda works, you DONT KNOW you are being indoctrinated*
> 
> 
> DUH


 
Irony, thy name is John.....:lol:


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

sarcasm, thy name is Jeff......


you sound like one of those AA jerks Jeff

"denial of a problem is the first sign of a problem"

I am the one that has woken up and realizes what is going on, Jeff. the fact that polls now state a healthy part of the population gets its news from JOHN STEWART shows that the propaganda is working on the sheep....

and you are smart enough to know that it's true, regardless of your natural tendancy to pooh pooh everything .........


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> you sound like one of those AA jerks Jeff
> 
> "denial of a problem is the first sign of a problem"..


 
Yeah, real jerks for trying to deal with their addiction....


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

Well I guess the answer is simple Bill and Twin Fist, don't go to movies, change the channel. 

I am not sure what the point of this is? 


Would you like those alleged left wingers in Hollywood censored? My guess is probably , funny how those libertarian ideals are so quickly abandoned when you would like the government to impose legislation on other people. "I am all for small government until I need big government to control those that don't agree with me."


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> sarcasm, thy name is Jeff......
> 
> 
> you sound like one of those AA jerks Jeff
> ...


'


Not "poh-pohing," just pointing out that if this



Twin Fist said:


> thats how propaganda works, you DONT KNOW you are being indoctrinated
> 
> 
> DUH


 

is true, then how do you know you (and you, bill) haven't been indoctrinated by
*right-wing* propaganda? 

_You see how that works?_ :lfao:


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

there is a trend among addicts to assume everyone is an addict, and when you say you aint, they proceed to tell you that you are just in denial

 THAT is a jerk.............

and in HIRING for jobs, it is the LAW that you cant discriminate, did you forget that?

if people want to produce material with a slant, IN EITHER direction, thats fine, as long as the consumer can make an INFORMED decision wether or not to purchase that product.

THATS the problem

the slant is not publicized, because the critics and commentators on media by and large are slanted too.

that isnt right

people should be able and willing to put thier own views aside and review and comment on products from a neutral POV

journalists USED to do that. Critics as well. But no more.

the public suffers, and that isnt right.

please try to argue THAT Ramieriz......

by the way, LOVED you in the first highlander movie....


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

elder999 said:


> is true, then how do you know you (and you, bill) haven't been indoctrinated by
> *right-wing* propaganda?
> 
> _You see how that works?_ :lfao:




when one learns to recognize ONE, it makes you aware of the other, and I am smart enough to see it, but there isnt all that much right wing INmedia to promote and propaganda, in case you havnt noticed it ,,,,,it is the VAST minority in media in every field with the exception of AM talk radio


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

btw Jeff
a man gets really sick of those little "laughing" emoticons


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> by the way, LOVED you in the first highlander movie....


 
I'm flattered John, but really not my thing, not that there is anything wrong with it.  I fully defend your right to a man crush.


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> btw Jeff
> a man gets really sick of those little "laughing" emoticons


 
This man hasn't yet......little fellas crack me up every time...... I really dig the way they're synchronized.....
.....:lfao:.....:lfao:
:lfao:.....:lfao:.....
.....:lfao: ....:lfao:
:lfao:.....:lfao:.....
.....:lfao: .....:lfao:
:lfao:.....:lfao:.....
.....:lfao:......:lfao: 
:lfao:.....:lfao:.....
.....:lfao: .....:lfao:
:lfao:.....:lfao:......
.....:lfao:.....:lfao: 
:lfao:.....:lfao:......
See?* Hilarious*.:lfao:


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

you are easily amused, most often at the expense of others


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> you are easily amused, most often at the expense of others


 

No. I'm easily amused, and, yes,  often at the expense of others-I'm *most* often amused, though,  by things like puppets and frisbees and doggies and ducks and little children and Rube Goldbergs and dirty songs and optical illusions and petroglyphs and yo-yos and alcoholic concoctions and new recipes and bicycles and silly t-shirts and the Three Stooges and Mel Brooks movies and Richard Pryor and Jeff Dunham and Terry Fator and Sandy Becker and playing the guitar/piano/banjo/mandolin/harmonica/accordion/autoharp and my kids and Rita and Riita and Rita, though.....:lfao:

You, maybe once a quarter you amuse me, but hey, at least you try........
.....my patience. :lfao:

Being easily amused is one of the secrets to a longer life. Take it from a dying man.......:lfao:


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

Terry Fator is a genius


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Terry Fator is a genius


 
A must see in Vegas. Rita gets a Cirque de Soleil show...or the Phantom, and I get Terry Fator and the Amazing Jonathan.....I enjoy Cirque...and the Phantom,and she just puts up with the puppets and magicians, though.....:lfao:


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## Empty Hands (Jun 16, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> and in HIRING for jobs, it is the LAW that you cant discriminate, did you forget that?



In hiring you are only unable to discriminate based upon seven protected categories.  Political leanings are not one of those categories.



Twin Fist said:


> please try to argue THAT Ramieriz......
> 
> by the way, LOVED you in the first highlander movie....



I have to admit, it was the first thing I thought of too...


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

I actually my user name is based on my guitar, a Ramirez classical. I wouldn't make a pretense of being as cool as Sean Connery, I don't have balls that big, Twin Fist will be disappointed to know.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 16, 2011)

Mr. C is indeed very cool ...as well as irascible and grumpy, for which I am thankful as it means I am in good company .


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## Tez3 (Jun 16, 2011)

Ok so all of Hollywood is making left wing propaganda...so why are Hollywood films so right wing then?


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## billc (Jun 16, 2011)

Which movies would you consider right wing?


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## billc (Jun 16, 2011)

Here is a list from an American conservative film critic of the top 25 left wing movies of all time, according to him.  It is a good guide to left wing films.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/tag/top-25-left-wing-films/


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## Sukerkin (Jun 16, 2011)

All I can say is that I am clearly a political illiterate - some very good films in those lists, some of which deal with some important political issues and some most definitely with the futility of war.  

If your take on them is that they are Left Wing rather than discoursive then it's your loss.  I'll just enjoy them for what they are - good stories.

By the way, Mr Breitbart is a loony and Mr. Nolte would be far better served if his first name was Nick and he made films rather than talked gibberish - you know that Right ?

Defining yourself and limiting your thinking by a narrow cleaving to political parties is no way to live - end transmission.


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## billc (Jun 16, 2011)

In what way is Breitbart a looney?  He has taken on some very important corrupt organizations in the states and has been successful doing it.


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## billc (Jun 16, 2011)

did you read any of his reviews of those movies.  The reviews are fair and he openly admits to likeing most of those movies.  He simply points out how they are left wing in nature.  Pick a few and we can discuss them if you want.


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

I am not ever sure what he is saying about JFK,  Stone claimed everyone is involved in JFK's assassination and at the top of the list *Democrat*,  civil right supporting Lyndon B. Johnson.

 No one in their right mind in 1990 would claim Kennedy as a left wing hero,  way too much of his machinations had been revealed as revealed by Seymour Hersh.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 16, 2011)

I wasn't going to post this in-thread as it's really not utterly relevant to this ones topic but I thought it'd just serve as a once-and-for-all 'cards on the table' type of statement and then I should leave things alone for a while (as I am getting foolishly aggrieved by things I shouldn't).

In fact I won't post what I just wrote in thread - it's not relevant to anything other than my opinion.  I might PM it BillC (possibly not tho', being English and not liking to upset people); but if I do, *please* feel free to discard it if you are insulted by my thoughts.  They are just my reactions and are no reflection on the 'real' you that exists outside of the computer screen.


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## Ramirez (Jun 16, 2011)

Here is a quote from the Planet of the Apes review

" I personally dont know any Christians who deny evolution exists but the stereotype is alive and well in a story about a patriarchal ape society run by science deniers who cling to superstition"

  puh-leeze!  I'm supposed to take this guy seriously with a statement like that?  

http://www.physorg.com/news11541.html


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## billc (Jun 16, 2011)

Sukerkin, please, hit me with it in a P.M.  I won't take offense and I am really curious to see the formal, and proper gentleman Sukerkin "let loose."  Since this is a movie thread it seems like the relationship between Britain and America is akin to that in Star Trek.  The Brits are somewhat like the Vulcans, and the Americans like the humans.  One is very formal and reserved and the other is more say it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.  Send me a P.M. and my word as a gentleman, I won't take it personally, and we will still cuddle after words.

Bill


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## elder999 (Jun 16, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Sukerkin, please, hit me with it in a P.M. I won't take offense and I am really curious to see the formal, and proper gentleman Sukerkin "let loose." Since this is a movie thread it seems like the relationship between Britain and America is akin to that in Star Trek. The Brits are somewhat like the Vulcans, and the Americans like the humans. One is very formal and reserved and the other is more say it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. Send me a P.M. and my word as a gentleman, I won't take it personally, and we will still cuddle after words.
> 
> Bill


 
_Sukerkin, please, hit me_
_on the down low_
_I am really curious_
_let loose_
_and let the chips fall_
_like the Vulcans_
_like a relationship_
_like the humans_
_say it like it is_
_as a gentleman_
_we will still cuddle after_
_on the down low_
_like a movie_
_Brokeback or Le Cage_
_let the chips fall_


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## Sukerkin (Jun 16, 2011)

billcihak said:


> Sukerkin, please, hit me with it in a P.M.  I won't take offense and I am really curious to see the formal, and proper gentleman Sukerkin "let loose."



Ooh I don't know, good sir.  It was pretty sharp-tongued, that text I didn't post here.  I've "cooled my jets" now and am reticient to pass on in private what I (at the last moment) had the sensitivity not to post in public.

My touchstone for what I post, when I'm not too tired, is whether I would be upset or offended by my words if they were directed at me.  I try to apply that filter to whatever 'channel' I use.

I was in 'Romulan' hot-blood when I started to reply earlier and I am glad that my 'Vulcan' nature took hold before I hit 'Post' .  I am not always saved by the 'medium of communication', particularly when the topics relate to religion and my fingers run away with me {} but usually the act of having to formulate written sentences and then post saves me from an intemperate moment :lol:.

Putting that all aside, I thank you for your kindly worded assessment of your impression of my normal contributions to the board :bows:.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 16, 2011)

Sukerkin said:


> By the way, Mr Breitbart is a loony and Mr. Nolte would be far better served if his first name was Nick and he made films rather than talked gibberish - you know that Right ?



exactly WHAT is that little bit of opinion based on? something someone in the english leftist press told you?

please explain why you think the man who has been proven right more times than not is a loon


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## Ramirez (Jun 17, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> exactly WHAT is that little bit of opinion based on? something someone in the english leftist press told you?



  And what is that opinion based on?  

    According to you Tez can't know anything about H-Wood living in the UK but you know all about the political leanings of the English press.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 17, 2011)

they all have websites and they all post articles.

seriously? you sound like you are disagreeing just to disagree without even having a reason to do it.


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## Ramirez (Jun 17, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> seriously? you sound like you are disagreeing just to disagree without even having a reason to do it.


 you pot or kettle?


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## Ramirez (Jun 17, 2011)

leftist British press....as in Sky News or the Times , both owned by Rupert Murdoch , also the owner of Fox News in the US. Or do you mean the Economist, the well known conservative business magazine?


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## Grenadier (Jun 17, 2011)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:*

Please keep the conversation civil, and on-topic. Remember, you are permitted to attack the message, but not the one bearing the message. 

If you don't like what someone generally says, then you're always free to use the "ignore this poster" feature.  

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator


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## Twin Fist (Jun 17, 2011)

guardian.co.uk is pretty good example.


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## Ramirez (Jun 17, 2011)

interesting, the British press has both right and left viewpoints, but you know the same can't possibly be true of a vast industry like Hollywood.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 17, 2011)

elder999 said:


> _Sukerkin, please, hit me_
> _on the down low_
> _I am really curious_
> _let loose_
> ...



GENIUS!  Your best yet!


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## girlbug2 (Jun 17, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> btw Jeff
> a man gets really sick of those little "laughing" emoticons


 
I'm glad I didn't have to be the "bad guy" to say it first, thank you TF.


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## elder999 (Jun 17, 2011)

girlbug2 said:


> I'm glad I didn't have to be the "bad guy" to say it first, thank you TF.


 

What you and John :lfao: don't realize :lfao: is that I'm actually laughing when I type the little fellas in....and that :lfao: that:lfao: that....if I actually typed them in _every_ time I laughed out loud, there'd be many more of them.:lfao:


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## girlbug2 (Jun 17, 2011)

The main reason behind me never speaking up till now, is getting a triple dose in response. Well at least my psychic powers are intact.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 17, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> exactly WHAT is that little bit of opinion based on? something someone in the english leftist press told you?
> 
> please explain why you think the man who has been proven right more times than not is a loon



Sorry for the big delay in replying to this point, John .

My impression has been gained from the many links that BillC has put up to this fellow.  I hold my hand up and admit that I have not read every word from those articles but in my defence I would claim that I do not have to form the opinion that he is usually talking propogandised {insert rude word meaning "sillyness" or "unconvincing verbage"}.

If you think that he has been right (or should that be "Right"? ) on what he's blogged up, then the ball is in your court to prove it to me.  For, as a foreigner who is only interested through curiosity and because a number of people on this site talk about these matters (all the time ), I have the luxury of being able to have 'just' an opinion that only needs the justification of perspective for me to voice it.


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## granfire (Jun 17, 2011)

elder999 said:


> What you and John :lfao: don't realize :lfao: is that I'm actually laughing when I type the little fellas in....and that :lfao: that:lfao: that....if I actually typed them in _every_ time I laughed out loud, there'd be many more of them.:lfao:



(I have become to refer to them as the 'elder smiley')


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## Tez3 (Jun 18, 2011)

I think Elder needs to put the smileys in, if fact we should probably all use them more, many posts get ascribed to being written in anger when they aren't so perhaps we need to make what is obvious to us, that we are laughing as we write, to readers of our posters who are inclined to misinterprete our posts. ( something that happens to me a lot )


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## Twin Fist (Jun 19, 2011)

Ramirez said:


> interesting, the British press has both right and left viewpoints, but you know the same can't possibly be true of a vast industry like Hollywood.



as has been demonstrated, Hollywood censors and suppresses right wing people and messages


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## Twin Fist (Jun 19, 2011)

he has a new book out Mark, you should read it. I didnt know much about the guy till i did. He is a patriot and extreemly smart, and funny




Sukerkin said:


> Sorry for the big delay in replying to this point, John .
> 
> My impression has been gained from the many links that BillC has put up to this fellow.  I hold my hand up and admit that I have not read every word from those articles but in my defence I would claim that I do not have to form the opinion that he is usually talking propogandised {insert rude word meaning "sillyness" or "unconvincing verbage"}.
> 
> If you think that he has been right (or should that be "Right"? ) on what he's blogged up, then the ball is in your court to prove it to me.  For, as a foreigner who is only interested through curiosity and because a number of people on this site talk about these matters (all the time ), I have the luxury of being able to have 'just' an opinion that only needs the justification of perspective for me to voice it.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 19, 2011)

I shall have a look for it :nods:.  

My general impression has ever been that the presentation of his views has been entertaining and polished but with the definite provisio that you as the reader/viewer are only getting half the story.

I tend to prefer my political commentators to have less of a bias but, as you know, I try to give anyones views a fair crack of the whip, no matter how much I might not agree with their position.

After all, if you only ever immerse yourself in one 'vision' of a subject, then all you ever see is that one view and that is something I was educated to hold to be 'a bad thing' - most especially by my politics and international relations lecturers.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 19, 2011)

he is right more often than he is wrong, thats better than anything else

there is no bias in the truth


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## WC_lun (Jun 19, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> there is no bias in the truth


 
The problem is that the truth is viewed and judged from an already preconcieved bias.  We all do it, though to varying degrees. For most people the bias comes before the truth.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 20, 2011)

some things are FACTS and cant be slanted away


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## Sensei Payne (Jun 20, 2011)

I just wanna say..i haven't seen the movie yet, so I refuse to even read this for fear of spoilers.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 20, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> some things are FACTS and cant be slanted away



You mean like Global Warming or Evolution?


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## Twin Fist (Jun 20, 2011)

no one disputes climate change..there is literally mountains of evidence that the climate is changing, has changed, and will always change

that it is man made is a fantasy


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jun 20, 2011)

Thread drift is inevitable, but I believe there's another current thread on the whole climate change/global warming issue.  Let's try to turn things back toward the whole Hollywood bias stuff?  Assuming the topic's not dead already.


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## billc (Jun 20, 2011)

You don't want to see spoilers about global warming or evolution...? 

****SPOILERS FOR GLOBAL WARMING AND EVOLUTION*****

Apparently global warming melts the ice caps and illinois becomes the new east coast, buy property along the indiana border and make a fortune...

The next phase of evolution...people start to develop mutations like lazer eyes, mental telepathy, the abiltiy to teleport and so on, the good mutants protect regular people from the bad mutants and they make some okay, and one good, movie about it...

******END SPOILERS********

OR WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE IN THE THREAD?


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## Twin Fist (Jun 20, 2011)

I want my laser eyes....


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## billc (Jun 20, 2011)

I think a nice pair of wings would be nice, I have always thought it would be cool to be able to fly.  Of course wings with lazer eyes would be awsome too.  Some here on the study would need to beware my wrath....


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