# Bullet Proof Shields



## Kane (May 30, 2005)

These days most swat teams use shields made of bullet proof glass to protect themselves during very violent shootings and what not. I was just thinking, wouldn't it be a good idea for a civilian to have one? I mean if some guy or gal does try to shoot you with a gun a bullet proof shield inside your car or lying around the house would be very helpful, and I am sure it will save lives. Especially those giant bullet proof shields that can almost cover your front of the body.

 Perhaps they would even be a little helpful against melee weapons, depending on the strike I guess. It seems that they would be a great defense tool but it seems no one sells them. I am sure it is legal, I mean why wouldn't it be? It is a defense weapon not a offensive destructive weapon like a explosive. What do you think, and do you know of people who sell bullet proof shields?


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## hemi (May 30, 2005)

You bring up an interesting point I know that civilians can get bullet proof glass installed in cars/trucks. But with the cost being very high only very wealthy people opt to do so. IE Bill gates some celebrities. But on the shield issue I think it would be unpractical to walk around with a bullet proof shield. How easy would it be to walk around Wal-Mart with a 5 foot body shield and try to shop? Or attend a NASCAR race with 150,000 to 300,000 people all having body shields.



I think if some one was very concerned about being protected some what from small arms fire could buy and wear a bullet resistant vest. They sell them to the public and cost around 300-500 for a good one


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## Paul Genge (May 30, 2005)

Though an interesting subject shield work is hardly the most practical method of self defence.  Where are you going to put it in the event of a trip to your local shop or night club?  After all they are not items that slip into your back pocket un-noticed.  

Even if you placed the shield in the boot of your car (Trunk for residents of the US) there is not going to be time to get to it in the event of a shooting.  

Balistic shields are equipment used by proffessionals to deal with certain situations they realistically may find themselves in.  Do you really think you need one in your life?

Often people who start martial arts do so out of fear or a lack of confidence.  Instead of addressing the reasons for this some people spend there cash on buying toys that make themselves feel secure.  Unfortunately there is always a bigger shinnier toy out there that you must have to feel safe.

Save your cash, relax and get on with some training instead.  Spend the money on visting a decent instructor.  There are plenty of them out there if you are prepared to look outside of your local town.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


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## Andrew Green (May 30, 2005)

Those shields would be for when you are going into a place expecting to be attacked with various weapons.  Carrying one around with you just in case would make you look a little odd 

 And why would a civillian need to go into a situation where they expect to get assaulted?  

 I think it would be a very expensive toy that would have no realistic use for anyone...


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## Gary Crawford (May 30, 2005)

Andrew,not all of us have a bullet proof head like yours!


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## Kane (May 30, 2005)

Paul Genge said:
			
		

> Though an interesting subject shield work is hardly the most practical method of self defence. Where are you going to put it in the event of a trip to your local shop or night club? After all they are not items that slip into your back pocket un-noticed.
> 
> Even if you placed the shield in the boot of your car (Trunk for residents of the US) there is not going to be time to get to it in the event of a shooting.
> 
> ...


 Well yea, self defense classes would be good and all for a civilian for defense but there is little self defense can do if you run into a shootout while driving. Or if some guy stand 100 feet away from you, you can't really fight back. I think in those type of situation it might be good to have one. Gang warfare in cities seems to rise by the day and a innocent civilian could be accidental shot. Perhaps there is little need for it in a small town, but anything can happen in this crazy world.


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## hwarang (May 30, 2005)

yea im gonna carry around a bullet proof sheild.. ohh wait why dont i just get a gun....? duh


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## bignick (May 30, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Or if some guy stand 100 feet away from you, you can't really fight back. I think in those type of situation it might be good to have one.


 Whatever happened to running?


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## Blindside (May 30, 2005)

bignick said:
			
		

> Whatever happened to running?



And that environmental thing called cover....

Lamont


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

A shield, likewise a gun, and a police officer, wont always be there when you need one.


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## Tgace (May 30, 2005)

Shields are for when you have to go TOWARDS the guns. Not for self defense. The best shield on the street is available cover. Cars, trees, walls etc...


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Shields are for when you have to go TOWARDS the guns. Not for self defense. The best shield on the street is available cover. Cars, trees, walls etc...


The first shield is hoping to "shield" yourself from beng there in the first place.

But, yes, anythng large and sound make a good shield. I rather find a brick building to run in or behind. Unless of course, there isnt a tank parked nearby.


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## BruceCalkins (May 30, 2005)

A Bullet Proof shield would be very hard to carry everywhere and Bullet Proof Vest are Not as safe anymore.. With Piercing Bullets and remember "Most Bullet Proof Vest are not safe against Bladed Attacks. I have seen a Double edged Knife Slide right through a vest and a 45 slug be stopped.  Not to mention that except in the movies... A bad guy will shoot you in the head if your in a vest... and that will leave a mark.


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## 47MartialMan (May 30, 2005)

BruceCalkins said:
			
		

> A Bullet Proof shield would be very hard to carry everywhere and Bullet Proof Vest are Not as safe anymore.. With Piercing Bullets and remember "Most Bullet Proof Vest are not safe against Bladed Attacks. I have seen a Double edged Knife Slide right through a vest and a 45 slug be stopped. Not to mention that except in the movies... A bad guy will shoot you in the head if your in a vest... and that will leave a mark.


Now that was a interesting post and good point.

Except with "leave a mark", was this in "pun" like Chris Farley's comedic words?


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## BruceCalkins (May 30, 2005)

Of Course it was a Joke..


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## arnisador (May 31, 2005)

Shiled? Doesn't seem very practical. I agree about available cover being your best shield, practically speaking.

Anyone else picturing Batman and Robin using the Bat-shield?


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## Tgace (May 31, 2005)

Like this? 

http://www.bakerbatshield.com/product/specifications/flyerfront.html


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## Tgace (May 31, 2005)

BruceCalkins said:
			
		

> A Bullet Proof shield would be very hard to carry everywhere and Bullet Proof Vest are Not as safe anymore.. With Piercing Bullets and remember "Most Bullet Proof Vest are not safe against Bladed Attacks. I have seen a Double edged Knife Slide right through a vest and a 45 slug be stopped. Not to mention that except in the movies... A bad guy will shoot you in the head if your in a vest... and that will leave a mark.


Most cops who survive being shot do so because of their vest. The largest vital ares is the torso and thats where most shots hit. If you have to go to a gunfight, the ballistic vest is still the best protection (aside from not being there or being behind cover) available. You sound like the lazy older cops I know who want to make every excuse to not wear a vest..to hot, slows me down, they'll just shoot me in the head...etc. Just look at the death/survival statistics of cops and then look at who was wearing their vest. Vests save lives.

http://www.house.gov/fossella/Press/pr_032598v.htm


> "The statistics paint a sobering picture of the tragic consequences when bulletproof vests are not available or not used by police officers," Fossella said. "Since 1980, nearly 1,200 police officers have been killed by firearms, and not surprisingly, almost 1,000 of them were not wearing a bulletproof vest at the time. The numbers overwhelmingly indicate that vests save lives, especially when you consider that *between 1985 and 1994, no police officer who was wearing a vest was killed by a gunshot would that penetrated it.* When a police officer is shot every 12 hours and one is killed every 52 hours, it is our responsibility to do more, and this legislation is a step in the right direction."


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## Kane (May 31, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Most cops who survive being shot do so because of their vest. The largest vital ares is the torso and thats where most shots hit. If you have to go to a gunfight, the ballistic vest is still the best protection (aside from not being there or being behind cover) available. You sound like the lazy older cops I know who want to make every excuse to not wear a vest..to hot, slows me down, they'll just shoot me in the head...etc. Just look at the death/survival statistics of cops and then look at who was wearing their vest. Vests save lives.
> 
> http://www.house.gov/fossella/Press/pr_032598v.htm


 Yea I agree, many people in this thread are underestimating the protection of a bullet proof vest. I actually saw a documentary about the importance of cops  on wearing the vest, but also the fact that cops neglect to put the vest on for reasons such as being too lazy or what not as you said. These vests are effective against most type of guns bullets I would think, probably a shield too. 

 I think in the US, where firearms are legal especially that bullet proof vests are not a bad idea, especially if you live in a very gang-infested part of a city. And of course if you are a cop it has the same importance. 

 Actually it might not be a bad idea for British cops or and other type of cops to wear it since most criminals have guns whether it is legal or not.


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## hemi (May 31, 2005)

In an earlier post I recommend a bullet resistant vest. I didnt mean to knock the use of a vest or to say that they can not or will not save your life. It was my intention to keep in mind the purpose of a vest. A tactical bullet proof vest was/is not designed to stop a bladed weapon. The ballistics on the tip of a blade at striking speed is unreal. Only chain mail or plate steel can and will stop a blade.

Also a bullet proof vest is more for stopping .22 to some vests .357 rounds. Now if you added ceramic plates it could stop 44. Mag. rounds. But a vest will not stop say a 270, 30-06, 7.62x39 (AK, SKS) that would pass right through and take you out.  



The average gun fight in the street will put you up against most likely a 9mm to 45acp rounds thats what a vest is designed to stop. Yes the possibility of receiving a head shot does exist but I would think the use of a vest a better option than walking around with a body shield.



I also like the advice a lot of other member gave, stay clear of places that you know are trouble.


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## Paul Genge (May 31, 2005)

You have to ask yourself what you are doing living in or visiting the sort of area where wearing a vest is seriously being considered.  Vests are for proffessionals who have to visit these areas as part of their careers or for people who are subject to a specific threat (VIPs).  Let us be honest, what does the average civilian need a vest for?

Is there a permament state of civil war in the states?  Because posts like these are not going to attract tourists.  Try relaxing a little and buying less toys.  Your lives will be better for it.

Paul Genge
http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk


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## Tgace (May 31, 2005)

A knife doesn't penetrate a vest due to speed, power or anything like that. Ballistic vests are made up of various layers of threads (kevlar, spectra, etc) that disperse the force of a bullet as it goes through the layers. A knife pokes between these "threads" and penetrates. Most vests also have "trauma plates" hard plates that help disperse penetrating force. Those will stop knives. There are also "knife resistant" vests these days too. A standard vest is also much better protection against a knife than nothing. There have been many cases where the vest either stopped a knife or limited its penetration enough to prevent a lethal stab...

A soft plate insert can raise the level of protection of most vests. (Level II to a III or IIIA) Ceramics are primarily for high velocity rifle rounds and are bulky and heavy.


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## BruceCalkins (May 31, 2005)

Absolutly..I have also see vest that have a thin Chain mesh that help stop Knife penetration. With the use of the "Cop Killer" Bullets many vest now insert the plates that will slow or stop knifes... My recomendation is if you live in an area where a civilian needs a Vest... MOVE OUT FAST


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## Tgace (May 31, 2005)

"Cop Killer" bullets are a misnomer. I know of no pistol caliber bullets on the market that are "designed" for that purpose. If there were my SWAT team would have them. There are some bullets that are of high enough velocity to penetrate some vests and some others that are of a material that will penetrate a vest under certain conditions (wont spread the brands names here). But are not all that common. 

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm


> *What caliber guns do criminals prefer?*
> 
> In their 1983 study, Wright, Rossi, and Daly asked a sample of felons about the handgun they had most recently acquired. Of the felons sampled--
> 
> ...


Note that ALL handguns mentioned are well within the protective range of a simple Level IIA ballistic vest.


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## Tgace (May 31, 2005)

Hell a IIA can stop buckshot and a IIIA can stop slugs. Not that Id want to be inside one when it happened....


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## 47MartialMan (May 31, 2005)

That was a interesting chart/study...

Any others on calibers with penetration and/or muzzle velocity?


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## KenpoTex (Jun 1, 2005)

47MartialMan said:
			
		

> Any others on calibers with penetration and/or muzzle velocity?


 The Remington website is a great resource for checking/comparing ballistics of different calibers with various loads.  There are tables for Rifle, Handgun, Shotshell, and Rimfire.  Have fun


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## TonyM. (Jun 1, 2005)

"cop killer" (my Lord I hate that phrase) bullets are teflon coated. Before anyone gets too exited about shields they should check out the box-o-truth thread in the firearms section.


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## Tgace (Jun 1, 2005)

The shields the police use do work..but they are specialized pieces of equipment.


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## bignick (Jun 1, 2005)

Yes there are puncture resistant vests...and even if not, they will protect quite nicely against a slashing attack from an edged weapon...


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## 47MartialMan (Jun 1, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> The shields the police use do work..but they are specialized pieces of equipment.


As if one can obtain one easily and/or have quick access to it.


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## Tgace (Jun 1, 2005)

I believe one could be purchased, however why someone would want to spend that kind of money is beyond me. The latest things are "ballistic blankets" shields of soft armor that can be used to make walls/rooms/a la the "shield wall" of Ancient Roman fame....


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## 47MartialMan (Jun 1, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> I believe one could be purchased, however why someone would want to spend that kind of money is beyond me. The latest things are "ballistic blankets" shields of soft armor that can be used to make walls/rooms/a la the "shield wall" of Ancient Roman fame....


Sorry, I didnt mean to state that they could not be had. But the expense of it. Might as well _*invest in a vest*_.


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## Tgace (Jun 1, 2005)

Absolutely...


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## Flatlander (Jun 1, 2005)

I know for a fact that standard kevlar will stop a broken beer bottle.  Pa took one in the back about 10 odd years ago.  Didn't even feel it.  Mr. Bottle wished he hadn't.  The brothers were with Pa that night.


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## 47MartialMan (Jun 1, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that standard kevlar will stop a broken beer bottle. Pa took one in the back about 10 odd years ago. Didn't even feel it. Mr. Bottle wished he hadn't. The brothers were with Pa that night.


Wuz Daisey wif 'em or yonder on th' utter side of town?


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## Bod (Jun 10, 2005)

In England the shield would make sense as you could use it to protect yourself from an unexpected downpour.


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