# Belt Promotions too Fast?



## MartialMellow (Sep 7, 2014)

What would you do if you started thinking that your *M.A. school *was pushing you through belt promotions too fast?A.  Speak with the head instructor?B.  Leave?C.  Other?


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## donald1 (Sep 7, 2014)

Probably leave?  Sounds like a mcdojo,  maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a good instructor would rush someone to get higher rank,  but it would also be a good idea to hear multiple opinions just in case


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## MartialMellow (Sep 7, 2014)

^ What is a mcdojo?


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## donald1 (Sep 7, 2014)

A school that promotes students that maybe are not yet at that rank, 
Signs of mcdojo
- promised black belt, (in a good school they don't know if you'll make it to black belt) 
- any deadly techniques(I've heard mcdojos don't teach them,  not sure how true that is) 
- children around the age 12 black belt 
There's many other ways to find out too


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## Hong Kong Pooey (Sep 7, 2014)

MartialMellow said:


> What would you do if you started thinking that your *M.A. school *was pushing you through belt promotions too fast?A.  Speak with the head instructor?B.  Leave?C.  Other?



It depends how hard they're pushing. I've felt like that sometimes but I usually just have an excuse as to why I can't do it this time. Our grading opportunities are usually only every few months or so though and usually on a weekend so it's not too difficult to put it off. 

It's probably worth noting as well that some of us actually need pushing every now and then.


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## Danny T (Sep 7, 2014)

Why would you Not Speak with your instructor and if not satisfied speak the head instructor or owner?


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## Jaeimseu (Sep 7, 2014)

donald1 said:


> Signs of mcdojo
> - promised black belt, (in a good school they don't know if you'll make it to black belt)



I disagree a little with this one, for taekwondo at least. Anyone who walks into my school is able to earn a black belt. They simply have to put in the time and effort. I would never say, "You will be a black belt in x months/years," but I could easily give them an average time from white to black.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 8, 2014)

It all depends...

There is a HUGE difference between a belt factory with mandatory testing and "if you can afford it, we will award it" policies and an instructor who knows that a student is ready for promotion despite their insecurities. 

In an ideal world, the student and instructor agree that it's time to promote. But frankly, I prefer the student who needs to be told "You're ready to test. Yes you are. Yes, I am sure you are" over the one who needs to be told "You're not ready to test. No, you're not. Yes, I am sure".


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## Buka (Sep 8, 2014)

MartialMellow said:


> What would you do if you started thinking that your *M.A. school *was pushing you through belt promotions too fast?A.  Speak with the head instructor?B.  Leave?C.  Other?



This is actually a very difficult question to answer. When you are a student in a dojo, you have no say as to how and why the instructors do anything concerning testing. I can't see how speaking with the instructor about belt promotions is going to do anything. If the instructor is part of what we call a "belt factory" he isn't going to be doing cartwheels over questioning his methods of testing, if it's not a belt factory - the questions won't apply. So....I dunno'.

I always had a policy when in charge of testing and belts. And every single student in the school was taught it from day one. "If you ask about when you will be tested or when your next belt will come, or any question related to that - it's an automatic six months longer added on. No exceptions. So shut up and train."  (yes, I used the shut up and train cliché)

I consider belt factories criminal. I don't know how they sleep at night. I really don't. All I can figure is they have no love for Martial Arts. None at all.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 8, 2014)

I always had a dislike for people that thought they should have the next belt and if they told me they should be testing they seemed to fail always.
On the other hand I respected students that said they felt they where not ready to take the next test. Some times I had them test anyway and sometimes I let them wait until i tested again. Some I tested as a part of a normal class and never told them they where testing until the night was over and I awarded them the belt.
NOW as to the OP, If your not ready to test tell the instructor your not ready and feel it would be better to wait. If you feel it necessary talk to the instructor and ask whet requirments are for each belt. Tell him you feel you need more time in rank to learn before you test.
Just a couple question do you pay for tests and dose the price go up each time? Are test given to everyone in the school at certain intervals (3,4,5, months)? Dose everyone pass the test each time?


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 10, 2014)

I think it is ridiculous for a M.A. school to push students through belt promotions. Its the students that have to push themselves. And some students don't care about rank, they might be joining the martial arts for other reasons, maybe they want to lose weight, maybe they want to get in good shape, martial arts training is good for that.

And here is how you determine if a martial arts school is a McDojo. Observe a class and if the high ranking students perform terribly than you know its a McDojo.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 10, 2014)

Buka said:


> I always had a policy when in charge of testing and belts. And every single student in the school was taught it from day one. "If you ask about when you will be tested or when your next belt will come, or any question related to that - it's an automatic six months longer added on. No exceptions. So shut up and train."  (yes, I used the shut up and train cliché)



So do you clarify this policy with students when they sign up? Maybe a student might not be clear on how rank advancement works in your school since every school has their own system of rank. As for shutting up and training, that's for when you're doing drills.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 10, 2014)

tshadowchaser said:


> I always had a dislike for people that thought they should have the next belt and if they told me they should be testing they seemed to fail always.
> On the other hand I respected students that said they felt they where not ready to take the next test. Some times I had them test anyway and sometimes I let them wait until i tested again. Some I tested as a part of a normal class and never told them they where testing until the night was over and I awarded them the belt.



I see what you mean. I once had a college professor who said that he would sometimes have students that would come to his class and tell him that they always get A's in their classes and that they should have no problem getting an A in his class. He didn't like those students that much. On the other hand he did respect students who would tell him that they would like to get an A in his class and they would work hard to get it and they would ask for advice on how to get it.


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## Badger1777 (Sep 10, 2014)

MartialMellow said:


> What would you do if you started thinking that your *M.A. school *was pushing you through belt promotions too fast?A.  Speak with the head instructor?B.  Leave?C.  Other?



How long have you been at this club?

I sometimes think it takes a few months to really get a feel for a club. I find that sometimes I feel like I don't agree with such and such a strategy, and then suddenly, lots of things just fall into place in one lesson and the previous few weeks suddenly make perfect sense.

If your school is rushing people through their grades, I wouldn't be worried about it, IF people are being made to work for them. If you think grading is just a box ticking exercise then its time to find a new club. If they push you fast because they are simply trying to show you just what you can achieve if you are determined enough, then that can only be a good thing.


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## Buka (Sep 10, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> So do you clarify this policy with students when they sign up? Maybe a student might not be clear on how rank advancement works in your school since every school has their own system of rank. As for shutting up and training, that's for when you're doing drills.



_Do I clarify when they sign up?_ Yes, I do.

_Are they clear on how rank progresses?_ Yes, crystal clear. They are also crystal clear on asking about promotions - automatic six months longer because of the question. No exceptions.

I disagree on the "shut up and train" as only for drilling. First and foremost it is an attitude. IMO, a very important attitude. They are clear on this as well. Crystal.

I'm not saying this is the only way or the best way, it's just my way.


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## EddieCyrax (Sep 10, 2014)

Questions.....

What rank are you?  How long have you trained?  Do you have any other MA experience?  What art are you currently training in?

Lots of variables here.

Early ranks tend to come on a regular basis.....but this slows down tremendously the higher you go.....(At least that is my experience with Kempo).

BJJ on the other hand ..... each rank is its own long journey.


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## Instructor (Sep 10, 2014)

My teachers have been pestering me to get the next belt for about twenty years or so now... darn mcdojo's.  :lool:


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 11, 2014)

Buka said:


> _Do I clarify when they sign up?_ Yes, I do.
> 
> _Are they clear on how rank progresses?_ Yes, crystal clear. They are also crystal clear on asking about promotions - automatic six months longer because of the question. No exceptions.
> 
> ...



So why is the attitude of "shut up and train" good outside of drills? Usually a good teacher not only welcomes questions but encourages them. I took a shooting class which you could say is a martial arts class of a sort and during drills we would shut up and train but before we would break for lunch our instructor wanted at least two questions from the class.


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## Buka (Sep 11, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> So why is the attitude of "shut up and train" good outside of drills? Usually a good teacher not only welcomes questions but encourages them. I took a shooting class which you could say is a martial arts class of a sort and during drills we would shut up and train but before we would break for lunch our instructor wanted at least two questions from the class.


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## Danny T (Sep 11, 2014)

MartialMellow said:


> What would you do if you started thinking that your *M.A. school *was pushing you through belt promotions too fast?A.  Speak with the head instructor?B.  Leave?C.  Other?



I already asked why you would not speak with your instructor. There has been several opinions as to the topic. You need to know and understand what is the purpose for belt promotions at the different levels 'at your school'? What is the criteria used 'at your school' to test or to meet the standard for the purpose of belt promotions. 

I ask what it actually is and not for what your opinion as to what it should be. Promotions are used for a number of reasons and not every school or organization uses the same goals or criteria.

In my school students have to test for their white sash, in most the white is 'given' to them just for signing up.
Obviously then, my criteria for the white belt is different than some others. I also have 3 different levels for white belt so one can also achieve the belt and 2 different stripes. The same through out the different colors. 

Many for what I've read and seen. Say Black Belt is where one now is ready to start learning. The BB it seems is deemed to be the point one has learned and has a good grasp of the basics. For me this is a much lower level than what we use for BB. One must be highly proficient in skill, knowledge, and ability to use the techniques, the movements and positions from the forms in several different applications and explain what was done and why it was performed in that manner.

The jest of this is, promotions, rank, belts, stripes, are used by schools for a multitude of reasons. Know what is the purpose and what is the criteria for the different promotions before forming an opinion.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 12, 2014)

And just what does Groundhog Day have to do with this?


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## donnaTKD (Sep 12, 2014)

i went to mcdojo about maybe 5/6months ago and they tested every 3/4 months regardless of what was going on.  the school itself was aimed at kids and most of the black belts there were still in junior or early high school wtf ????? thinking that the fact the parents were paying vast sums had a fair bit to do with it............

sad really........... compare this with the "you'll fight when we say you're ready" attitude that you find in muay thai or mma schools


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 12, 2014)

donnaTKD said:


> i went to mcdojo about maybe 5/6months ago and they tested every 3/4 months regardless of what was going on.  the school itself was aimed at kids and most of the black belts there were still in junior or early high school wtf ????? thinking that the fact the parents were paying vast sums had a fair bit to do with it............
> 
> sad really........... compare this with the "you'll fight when we say you're ready" attitude that you find in muay thai or mma schools



I've seen places where lots of the black belts were ten years old or younger. In a nearby town there was even this story in the paper about a six year old boy who got a black belt. That is when you know you've got McDojos.

Anyway, at my dojo they hold tests every 3 or 4 months and its up to the student if he or she wants to sign up and take the test. That does not mean they will pass, however, and as a matter of fact its not uncommon for students to fail.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 13, 2014)

PhotonGuy said:


> And just what does Groundhog Day have to do with this?



Same thing. Over and over. And over. And over...


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 13, 2014)

Well in this case I was asking Buka.


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## tshadowchaser (Sep 14, 2014)

Back to the OP.
just wondering if the poster has made any decision on what he will do


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