# Interesting Background Documentary About David Icke



## Sukerkin (Apr 28, 2012)

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I've not seen this before but found it quite interesting to see the man behind the mockery and the veneration.  

I've seen his talks now and again and have always felt he had a good handle on human psychology whilst at the same time walking pretty far away from the garden path with some of his ideas.  I still think that he perhaps has that 'visionary' twist that is a facet of an imbalance in the brain chemistry but he can put his ideas across with great eloquence at times, especially those parts where I agree with him .


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## Tez3 (Apr 29, 2012)

http://www.publiceye.org/Icke/Ickequotes.htm


http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/blogs/searchlight-blog/coining-it-on-antisemitism



There's not a hope in hell that I will ever take anything that man says either as being of value or of being true I'm afraid.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 29, 2012)

Not read you links yet, duck;  I'll find out why you feel as you do after I have I suspect.

Other than when he gets onto his Alien Overlords tack, a proportion of what he talks about is quite verifiable stuff.  The knack lies in the interpretation of the identified political and economic associations.  Is the Bilderberg Group an aspect of the Superclass, meeting to co-ordinate their nefarious manipulations of the world stage?  Or is it a way for high ranking people to meet in 'non official' circumstances ... and co-ordinate their legitimate manipulations of the world stage? :lol:.

Mind you, in a way, it makes not a whit of difference as there is not a lot ordinary people can do about it anyway.


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## Tez3 (Apr 29, 2012)

I should have added the lizards to the 'overlord' stuff on the other thread about the UK, the rich have run the world, just as they have always done, the antics of such people are no different from their medieval counterparts or their Roman and Greek ones. It's the way of the world, you can get rich and play the games or you can pootle along living a life where you try to be as kind to others and live a good as life as you can. The rich may run the world but the costs to them are higher than our life is to us.


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## K-man (Apr 29, 2012)

Conspiracy theory at it its best.  Take some facts, add imagination, take it to the world.  In the case of Scientology, don't even bother with the facts.  I think I just lost about an hour of my life!    :BSmeter:


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## K-man (Apr 29, 2012)

Actually, this got me thinking about Zeitgeist.  There are a lot of people sucked into that conspiracy theory.



> Zeitgeist, The Movie is a film that was released on Google Video in the spring of 2007 and was created by Peter Joseph. Essentially the video covers three areas of Interest: Part I, entitled "The Greatest Story Ever Told" evaluates Christian beliefs and asserts that it was all taken from pre-existing myths, primarily Egyptian mythology. In Part II, entitled "All The World's a Stage" it goes on to talk about how the US Government knew about the attacks on September 11th, 2001 before hand and that it was a large conspiracy and cover up -- essentially an it was an inside job. Lastly we are told in Part III, entitled "Don't Mind The Men Behind The Curtain", that powerful bankers and world leaders are conspiring for world domination and consolidation of power.



http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Peter Joseph is probably using a similar amount of fact to back his ideas of a "New World Order".      :asian:


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## 72ronin (Apr 29, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> The rich may run the world but the costs to them are higher than our life is to us.



I dont quite understand this quote from you Tez.
As ANZAC day has just passed, personaly i gave thanks to those who gave their lives in order for me to live the way i do.
Their lives are the greatest sacrifice there is, their lives are why im breathing oxygen right now.
Without their lives, no decisions can be made or enforced, and the bottom would fall out from under any organisation or government in history.

I do think i have mistaken your post in some way, as i have noticed you may come from a military family or? from reading previous posts of yours. 

But a polly or corporate leader, what price do they pay?


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## 72ronin (Apr 29, 2012)

K-man said:


> using a similar amount of fact



Im not for or against any of these people, but are these apparent facts of any importance?
Its like me telling you a story, i start with facts then lead to my interpretation of them and conclusion.

My interpretation and conclusion may be laughable, but the facts remain intact.
I was looking into persistent contrail stuff once (silly me right?) when i came across some info regarding a seperate subject and its experimentation on the UK populace many years ago. Which happens to be documented and not some conspiricy blokes book selling venture.

So, regardless of my conclusion, the facts gained along the way remain as quite shocking. Does that mean i think we are being chemtrailed, no, these facts were not in support of that in itself. But it certainly opened my eyes a little to what governments/military have got up to from time to time. Isnt there a saying that goes something like "dont throw the baby out with the bath water". Something like that anyway.


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## Tez3 (Apr 29, 2012)

72ronin said:


> I dont quite understand this quote from you Tez.
> As ANZAC day has just passed, personaly i gave thanks to those who gave their lives in order for me to live the way i do.
> Their lives are the greatest sacrifice there is, their lives are why im breathing oxygen right now.
> Without their lives, no decisions can be made or enforced, and the bottom would fall out from under any organisation or government in history.
> ...



I'm not from a military family. My post has nothing to do with the military I don't know why you thought that. 
The price they pay is in paranoia, stress, the constant having to be one step ahead, to  be playing the game all the time, for what? They are going to be dead just like the rest of us. Who can be bothered fighting karma all the time. What do you think they really get out of it? Learn from history.


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## 72ronin (Apr 29, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I'm not from a military family. My post has nothing to do with the military I don't know why you thought that.
> Previous posts, not post.
> The price they pay is in paranoia, stress, the constant having to be one step ahead, to be playing the game all the time, for what? Who can be bothered fighting karma all the time.
> Sounds truly dreadful, maybe they can spare a thought for the people on the ground who fight and die due to their decisions?
> ...



You state they make some kind of sacrifice above and beyond our lives..  Rubbish.


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## K-man (Apr 30, 2012)

72ronin said:


> Im not for or against any of these people, but are these apparent facts of any importance?
> Its like me telling you a story, i start with facts then lead to my interpretation of them and conclusion.


As David Ickes said, we get a lot of our information from television and the press.  There are even some journals of a political nature that have credibility.  The politicians obviously target journos who are sympathetic to their cause or maybe even do deals with influential people who own the press. So, we are fed information as 'fact' that may or may not be true.

That is how we ended up in Vietnam and Iraq.  Spun a yarn that history shows to be a lie.   :asian:


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## 72ronin (Apr 30, 2012)

I thought the Queensland elections were funny, did you catch that Mining fella on TV, "CIA global warming scam etc Greens in their back pocket etc" lol.
Meanwhile in Parliament Labour was saying how Liberal is dictated to by the Mining industry, only for the retort to come back that Labour receives a whole boat load of support from mining aswell, so whats the point, they dont even bother to put on a decent show anymore lol.
Question time etc, they go on like a bunch of kids at times!
I am quite aware of the relationship between all involved.

Peter Garrett..(insert midnight oil song here lol) a polly haha, Its easy to sit back and have a bit of a laugh sometimes at it all! I would be very shocked if Gillard is re elected, although to tell you the truth, who knows what people base their votes on these days!


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## 72ronin (Apr 30, 2012)

Im still puzzled at Tez's post!
Does she think Murdoch is losing any sleep? Is she talking about Churchills depression, the mind boggles.
Who's that UK polly that stirred up a bit of a storm, GG, thats him, i suppose he got relegated to the ADL list aswell? lol.

Theres a good egsample actually, very learned man, perhaps said the odd remark here or there, so all he ever said is trashed, thats the way its done isnt it Tez once they make "the list"?


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 30, 2012)

It's all about 'they' and the things 'they' do.  What if there is no 'they'?  What if it's all just 'us'?

The reasons I reject most conspiracy theories are simple.

First, because it requires a huge number of people to do something that humans do not do well, namely work together towards a specified goal, over long periods of time.

Second, because it requires the keeping of secrets, which humans also suck at.

Third, because when you have a conspiracy, you have a ready answer for everything that does not conform to the theory; ie, _"That's what they WANT you to think."_

Fourth, if it's a conspiracy and thus secret, why do you know about it?

And fifth, most of the people I've met who are deep and ready believers in various conspiracy theories are incapable of EVER accepting the possibility, however remote, that their theory MIGHT be wrong.  Absolutism in the face of tenuous theory is not the mark of a rational mind.

Even when confronted with the obvious fallacies in most conspiracy theories (eg, the world didn't end of day thus-and-so), they make excuses rather than admit the entire theory was hokum.  Oh, the dates were calculated from the wrong point of view, but it REALLY WILL HAPPEN, YOU'LL SEE, or by exposing the theory, they have heroically pushed back the agenda of the evil empire of X [any value for x].  But it's not that the THEORY is wrong, you see.  Because the THEORY CANNOT BE WRONG.

That's always my clue to nod my head, make soft comments, and look for the nearest exit.  Loonies make me sad.


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## 72ronin (Apr 30, 2012)

Well, the first time i ever heard outlandish stories was in sunday school. You know, revelations and all that jazz!
Your kind of explaining faith based belief systems in a way.
Who knows how people lose the capacity for rational thought right?...


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## 72ronin (Apr 30, 2012)

Not all apparent conspiricy is going to be "the world will end".

Many years ago here in Australia, a certain political party in order to gain access to some Aboriginal land, simply set up "canteens" in the local areas.
It really wasnt too long after that the local Aboriginal community broke down. Beer was being trucked up there nonstop.
They sold a huge portion of their land for pocket change and the mining company moved in. Simple.
So what is good business to one, is something completely different to another.

Would that classify as conspiricy, or a manipulation of the population. Its not all the world will end, or the few control the many etc, some of it is just bloody obvious!


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## Makalakumu (Apr 30, 2012)

Some conspiracies do exist and some of them involve lots of people. History is full of examples. Some humans are predatory and do so openly. Others lie in wait and plan for the right moment to strike. The former is FAR easier to comprehend and act against then the latter.

David Icke isn't worth taking seriously. Rather, pay attention to Carol Quigley, Bill Clinton's mentor. He wrote Tragedy and Hope, a book about the history of the Oligarchy...which is a history of conspiracy.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 30, 2012)

As I stated, those who believe in conspiracies cannot be convinced that they do not exist; this is the purest form of proof that no such conspiracy exists, since it must exist in order to conform with their worldview.

I believe in small conspiracies, like two vendors conspiring to fix prices.  I do not believe in men in shadows running the world from the behind the scenes.  Mainly because it's pure hokum.  Oh, I know, that's what they WANT me to think.  Those crazy 'them', they're amazing.  Or they would be if they existed.  Which they don't.


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## granfire (Apr 30, 2012)

Besides,we all know it's the Vatican!


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## Sukerkin (Apr 30, 2012)

It is always good when a thread develops some legs of it's own .  

I thought that it was an interesting insight into how David Icke got to where he is and thought we might be talking about whether he was a little 'insane' or really a charlatan playing on peoples fears.  But the psychological backdrop to conspiracies is just as fruitful a field.

What people have to be aware of, as I've mentioned before, is that there is actually a de facto global oligarchy in place that determines the path that the world economy (and thus everything else) takes.  Serious, non-conspiracy-theory stuff wherein the heads of all the major corporate groups inter-relate and organise things beneath the surface so that they don't tread on each others toes.  I'd have to look about for it again but it might be good for people to search for it themselves.  

Money makes the world dance to the tune of those that have it - such things do not have to be portrayed as a secret cabal orchestrating the fall of mankind.  The cold economic truth of things is just as sobering.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 30, 2012)

In criminal conspiracies, discovery usually results in the end of the plot. In conspiracies of the powerful, discovery of the conspiracy is irrelevent.  It doesn't matter so much if people know as long as you can hold on to power.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 30, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> As I stated, those who believe in conspiracies cannot be convinced that they do not exist; this is the purest form of proof that no such conspiracy exists, since it must exist in order to conform with their worldview.
> 
> I believe in small conspiracies, like two vendors conspiring to fix prices.  I do not believe in men in shadows running the world from the behind the scenes.  Mainly because it's pure hokum.  Oh, I know, that's what they WANT me to think.  Those crazy 'them', they're amazing.  Or they would be if they existed.  Which they don't.



Couldn't the denial of certain "conspiracies" be a method of confirming one's world view?


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## Makalakumu (Apr 30, 2012)

And then there are instances in which the conspiracy theorists are correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html



> THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in  recent years &#8212; or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was  intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and  shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in  Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes  into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.
> 
> But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover  agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake  C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training.  Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.



New thread posted here.


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## 72ronin (Apr 30, 2012)

Sukerkin said:


> It is always good when a thread develops some legs of it's own .
> 
> I thought that it was an interesting insight into how David Icke got to where he is and thought we might be talking about whether he was a little 'insane' or really a charlatan playing on peoples fears. But the psychological backdrop to conspiracies is just as fruitful a field.
> 
> ...



David Icke was always going to be a little different in his approach. His wife looks like she's ready to pull out the chrystals and heal us all at any second! There was always going to be the "we are vibration" stuff and all that.
Thats what seperates him from someone like Allan Watt, or even Bill Cooper, Icke went for it with the mystical stuff and probably did well selling books to that crowd for a while.

Actually, with Cooper, during his radio show he probably nailed the "something will take place soon" thing better than anyone else. It was probably early 2001 when he was talking about Bin laden and saying something is up, expect something soon folks etc 
But Cooper also had some odd stuff, they all need something outlandish to get attention early on in the piece, with Cooper, it was a craft flying in or out of the ocean during his service. Its like breaking into the market kind of thing. Get noticed/attention, then move on to what you are really on about later, which for Cooper was Freedom and the Constitution with the usual religious themes aswell.
Im not sure, but Allan Watt hasnt really gone the extra mile, Usualy bases his talks around established facts, people like E. Griffin etc theres plenty that dont stray too far from the garden path.


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## Tez3 (May 1, 2012)

72ronin said:


> You state they make some kind of sacrifice above and beyond our lives.. Rubbish.




Y9ou are mistunderstanding me. Post, yes because I didn't mention anything about the military in this thread. Sacrifice? No I didn't say that, I said they pay for it in paranoia etc that's not a sacrifice that's just plain stupid. who wants to spend their lives like that, not me certainly, I want to enjoy my life. I don't know why you are fixated on the military. Wars and fights happen between people even without the machinations of 'them'.
Oh and by the way I'm sure Murdoch is not the happiest person in the world at the moment, it's falling down, attacked by the police, the other press,politicians, his son shown to be an idiot, his corporation to be corrupt, as I said is it worth it? Nah. 
I think you're puzzled by my posts because you either haven't read them or have read things into them that aren't there, no idea who 'GG' is btw and what you mean in your last post oh and what 'list'?


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## 72ronin (May 1, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Oh and by the way I'm sure Murdoch is not the happiest person in the world at the moment, it's falling down, attacked by the police, the other press,politicians, his son shown to be an idiot, his corporation to be corrupt, as I said is it worth it? Nah.
> 
> So, a little questioning where answers like "Sorry, i dont recall" and "i have no recollection of that" or "I was not aware of that" etc suffice.. Nope, not a wink of sleep lost.


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## Tez3 (May 1, 2012)

72ronin said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and by the way I'm sure Murdoch is not the happiest person in the world at the moment, it's falling down, attacked by the police, the other press,politicians, his son shown to be an idiot, his corporation to be corrupt, as I said is it worth it? Nah.
> ...


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## 72ronin (May 1, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> no idea who 'GG' is btw



http://youtu.be/MWR0tavb-zo


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## Tez3 (May 1, 2012)

George Galloway was recently elected as a Member of Parliament, he made a 'storm' as you put it because he's an apologist for Al Queda and the Taliban, and is pro Jihadist. He was voted in by the majority Muslim community in Bradford West. He's chiefly known for sucking up to Saddam Hussein and making money out of the Iraq wars.





The controversial Christopher Hitchens v George Galloway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Gbr6viV7I&feature=related


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## 72ronin (May 1, 2012)

All that from two youtube vids hey tez, I guess you know all you need to know about him now.
Quite the conclusion you came to there.. considering you never knew about him before, apparently.
It must annoy you to have to put up with an opposing viewpoint, pesky democracy hey..


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## K-man (May 1, 2012)

72ronin said:


> It must annoy you to have to put up with an opposing viewpoint, pesky democracy hey..



That's a bit of a low blow.    The guy has bad form if Wiki is to be believed.



> He was expelled from the Labour Party in October 2003 because of his strident public opposition to the Iraq War. He subsequently became a founding member of the left-wing Respect Party, and was elected as the MP for Bethal Green and Bow in 2005.
> 
> Galloway is well known for his campaigns in support of the Palestinians in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He attempted to overturn economic sanctions against Iraq in the 1990s and early 2000s and to avert the 2003 invasion. Galloway testified to the United States Senate in 2005 over alleged illicit payments from the United Nations' Oil for Food Programme.
> 
> ...



Etc, etc etc .....     :asian:


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## 72ronin (May 1, 2012)

So, he may or may not be a muslim, wheres the problem?
He spoke out against the Iraq war, wheres the problem?
He spoke out against Israel, wheres the problem?
I'll add to that if you like, he has spoken out against terrorist acts against Iran also, and again, where is the problem in that?

His freedom to express his opinion on whatever he likes is what people have fought and died for, you may not like someones opinion, and you certainly dont have to agree with it, but you'd be a fool to take it away..


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## K-man (May 2, 2012)

72ronin said:


> So, he may or may not be a muslim, wheres the problem?  No problem
> He spoke out against the Iraq war, wheres the problem?    No problem
> He spoke out against Israel, wheres the problem?    That's an understatement.
> I'll add to that if you like, he has spoken out against terrorist acts against Iran also, and again, where is the problem in that?  What he claims are 'terrorist acts' could be open to debate.
> ...


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is an enormous difference between balanced opinion and extremism.



> Since the convoy returned from Gaza, Galloway has gone on two speaking tours around the U.S. in April and May to promote Viva Palestina. During his speeches, which attracted hundreds of attendees, Galloway regularly defended Hamas, describing it as a liberation movement that "just wants to liberate its tiny piece of land from illegal and violent military occupation." He called Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah and imprisoned Palestinian terrorist Marwan Barghouti "the greatest Arab leaders," while referring to Israel's newly elected government as "killers" and "fascists." He claimed that "Zionism has poisoned the well" and has "distorted the face of Jewish people."



IMO we were sold a pup with Iraq, we are well past the time to be out of Afghanistan, Israel is defying International Law by building communities in the West Bank, Hamas terrorists sending rockets Ito Israel are just that, terrorists. I have many opinions and I am happy for others to have their's. 

Let's look at the 'greatest Arab leaders. First up, Marwan Barghouti. Now this guy may be a great leader but his organisation sends suicide bombers against Israel.  He has been tried and convicted of murder and is in jail. If he had the courage of his convictions, he should blow himself up.

As for Hassan Nasrallah, I'll let him speak for himself ....  




Now this guy Galloway is an extremist who is promoting terrorism. It is far more than expressing an opinion.   :asian:


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## Tez3 (May 2, 2012)

72ronin said:


> All that from two youtube vids hey tez, I guess you know all you need to know about him now.
> Quite the conclusion you came to there.. considering you never knew about him before, apparently.
> It must annoy you to have to put up with an opposing viewpoint, pesky democracy hey..



Oh my we are having a tantrum aren't we lol. I said I didn't know who you were referring to by the initals 'GG', if you won't use people's names how are we supposed to know who you mean, dear boy, everyone knows George Galloway!

does it annoy me? No not in the least, posts like yours always make me laugh, the indignation of someone who likes winding people up. Crack on, make your personal attacks,a gainst the rules but hey let's be rebels shall we?


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## 72ronin (May 2, 2012)

The hypocrisy in your post tez, honestly..


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## Tez3 (May 2, 2012)

72ronin said:


> The hypocrisy in your post tez, honestly..



Really? Oh well I can't help what you think you read.


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## 72ronin (May 2, 2012)

Tez,

I do not expect nor will I await a reply to this post, you do not have to acknowledge it in any way. I also do not have an expectation of you to accept it either if you do not wish to do so. I do not enjoy getting a rise out of people and i am not comfortable with my conduct in regards to our exchange in this thread.

I would like to appologise to you for not engaging conversation with you in a more respectful manner. 

Sincerely,
72ronin.


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## Tez3 (May 2, 2012)

72ronin said:


> Tez,
> 
> I do not expect nor will I await a reply to this post, you do not have to acknowledge it in any way. I also do not have an expectation of you to accept it either if you do not wish to do so. I do not enjoy getting a rise out of people and i am not comfortable with my conduct in regards to our exchange in this thread.
> 
> ...



Actually I have no idea what you are talking about , I posted my opinion of David Icke and why I don't like him. You mentioned a politician initialled GG, without stating who he was (you also mentioned a lot of names of what I assume are Australian politicans but who are unknown outside your country.) When you gave me the politician's name, George Galloway I gave you my opinion of him, I really can't see what the problem is. You don't have to like or agree with my opinion but I don't really see where the hypocrisy comes in.


Another view of George Galloway.


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