# A List of MMA.



## Patrick Skerry (Oct 23, 2004)

Here's a short list of American mixed martial arts I was able to research off the internet; please add to the list as you see fit:

1.) KAJUKENBO: America's first mixed martial art, 1947.
http://vbms.unl.edu/cirillo/Kaj.html

2.) JUKADO: America's second mixed martial art, 1957, founder Bruce Tegner.
http://www.geocities.com/brucetegnersociety/

3.) BUSHIDO-KA: A mixed martial arts club founded in 1970.
http://www.bushido-kai.net/hombu/img/Dojo_Brochure_Mindful_MA.pdf

4.) KETSUGO: A third American mixed martial art 1951, very big in Boston.
http://www.jujutsu.org/History/history.html

5.) MIYAMA-RYU: Another American mixed martial art New York City.
http://www.Miyamaryu.org

6.) ATEMI-RYU: American mixed martial art founded in 1959.
http://www.atemi-ryu.org/Pages/history.html

7.) RENRIKAN: mixed martial art in Boston, 1993
http://www.renrikan.com/

8.) AMERICAN JIU-JITSU: a mixed martial art of Hakko-ryu & Judo.
http://www.americanjiujitsu.net/

9.) HOLLISTON BU-KE-DO: A mixed martial arts academy 1987
http://www.bukedo.com/pages/about.htm


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## Andrew Green (Oct 23, 2004)

Define MMA?

By what a lot of people mean by that term none of those count.  Not only that but anything that would go on such a list would not....

It's a concept / sport / training method.  Not a "style" or collection of styles.


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 23, 2004)

Each name listed considers itself a mixed martial art, and some have for decades!  I know personally three sensei's listed on three names on that list and they all teach a "mixed martial art" and they advertise as such.





			
				Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Define MMA?
> 
> By what a lot of people mean by that term none of those count. Not only that but anything that would go on such a list would not....
> 
> It's a concept / sport / training method. Not a "style" or collection of styles.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 23, 2004)

Patrick Skerry said:
			
		

> Each name listed considers itself a mixed martial art, and some have for decades! I know personally three sensei's listed on three names on that list and they all teach a "mixed martial art" and they advertise as such.


So?

It turns into a word game, thats all.

But I would say that if the above are MMA, then almost all styles are MMA as they are derived from more then one source.  Judo is MMA.

Anyone is free to call whatever they do whatever they want as long as the name they are using isn't protected by someone else.


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 23, 2004)

But Judo is not a mixed martial art, it is unique, and Dr. Jigoro Kano is internationally accepted as having developed a unique form of Budo!

The list I provided advertised themselves as a mixed martial art, and they do not claim to be be a unique style unlike any other, they even state that in their websites and brochures they hand out to students.

As a polite suggestion, maybe you should define what is a Mixed Martial Art?

Thank you.


			
				Andrew Green said:
			
		

> So?
> 
> It turns into a word game, thats all.
> 
> ...


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## Andrew Green (Oct 23, 2004)

Patrick Skerry said:
			
		

> As a polite suggestion, maybe you should define what is a Mixed Martial Art?
> 
> Thank you.


See my first post, you're the one asking for a list of MMA. Define your question.


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## ace (Oct 23, 2004)

No Jeet Kune Do??????????????? :waah:

By Defenition I guess The Named above are (Mixed Martial Arts)


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## longshot (Oct 23, 2004)

I thought you were going to list things like Ruas Vale Tudo and Militech Fighting System.


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## Mark Weiser (Oct 23, 2004)

This an interesting line of thinking or debate. Someone like myself who trains in American Kenpo, Dragon Kenpo, Jun Bao Whu Shu, Mzong Luo Kung Fu. I borrow techniques form each that works for me. I adapt a program for each student based on his or her strengths and weakeness making the MA adapt for each student. I would say this is the concept behind MMA.


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 24, 2004)

Hi Andrew,

Actually I provided a list of mixed martial arts and just requested anyone else to extend the list.

I would definately think that Jeet Kune Do is a mixed martial art without a doubt.


			
				Andrew Green said:
			
		

> See my first post, you're the one asking for a list of MMA. Define your question.


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## ace (Oct 24, 2004)

ace said:
			
		

> No Jeet Kune Do??????????????? :waah:
> 
> By Defenition I guess The Named above are (Mixed Martial Arts)



I belive what was thought of  for Mixed Martial Arts
Would Be arts Such as ,, Pancrase,Shooto,Ruas Vale Tudo.

But that whould be a short cut  in the
evolution of Mixing Arts to defeat The Weakness
each art has.

When I sit Back At Read this Thread
it shows me that once again there is nothing new 
Under The Sun......

Mixed Martial Arts will continue to grow
& I see no wrong way in the cross roads...


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## ace (Oct 24, 2004)

Mark Weiser said:
			
		

> This an interesting line of thinking or debate. Someone like myself who trains in American Kenpo, Dragon Kenpo, Jun Bao Whu Shu, Mzong Luo Kung Fu. I borrow techniques form each that works for me. I adapt a program for each student based on his or her strengths and weakeness making the MA adapt for each student. I would say this is the concept behind MMA.




I agree This is Miixing Arts


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 24, 2004)

Here is a great site that should be read regarding the mixed martial arts:

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/jonblumi.htm

Very inciteful into well-known personalities and history of MMA.


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## Andrew Green (Oct 24, 2004)

Patrick Skerry said:
			
		

> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Actually I provided a list of mixed martial arts and just requested anyone else to extend the list.


Ok, but your list is still unclear as to exactly what it is of.  It seems your criteria is that they call themselves such.

But the problem is that there are many different meanings for "Mixed Martial Arts", some of which contradict each other.

JKD was brought up.

Is Original JKD MMA?

JKD concepts?

That Functional JKD stuff?

At what point does something stop being MMA and it's own distinct art if you are using a "traditional" approach to MA?  Judo was a mix of other arts, so was just about every classical style.  Yet they don't get called that...

What is the criteria to meet your list?


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## ace (Oct 25, 2004)

There is no Origanal JKD Vs New JKD
JKD is a Mixed Martial Arts Concept.

Bruce Took what was Usful & Deleted what was Usless.
He trained in Wing Chun with Yip Man
Boxing Xavier Team
Fencing With His Brother 
Judo & Ju Jitsu with Wally Jay
Grappling  with Gene Lebell
FMA with Dan Inasanto.


His writings teach us that he was 
surching for personal truth.
His JKD would not be the Same as Dan Inosanto,Lary Hartsel
Leo Fong & So on..


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## Andrew Green (Oct 25, 2004)

yup, I agree.... but then I look around and wonder if that is what it was what is going on?

Yay! Word games are fun!

Whatever, JKD is a name, and different people mean different things by it.  For some it has become "Mimic Bruce Lee movies" which I suppose if that is what you are interested in doing isn't really a problem... except it confuses people as the name has no single meaning.


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## Flatlander (Oct 25, 2004)

Sure it does.  Jeet Kune Do translates directly as the art of the intercepting fist.  Beyond that, I have nothing to add to the "MMA debate".


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## James Kovacich (Oct 25, 2004)

I consider my system a mixed martial art.
http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/
Heres my definition of my system copied from my site.

KEMPO JU JITSU" is an Eclectic Martial Art that has traditional values with modern training applications. It has three phases, which represents the three phases of development from beginner to mastery. "KEMPO JU JITSU BASICS Phase 1"  (Basic to Intermediate) is complete as a basic "STAND UP FIGHTING SYSTEM" with basic ground grappling but in the ultimate reality of combat is merely the  beginning of our comprehensive STANDUP & GROUNDFIGHTING SYSTEM" based on the "THE AKJA METHOD OF TRAINING" which is a system of training in all ranges of combat with the belief that all fighting ranges should be understood and practiced together, practicing and understanding all of the AKJA curriculum focusing on what is most useful and specializing on what works best for you.

Heres a couple of pics of one of my students who is only 18 years old and is an up and coming fighter. 
http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/academypics.html
He and others will be attending the Jun Fan Beach Camp next summer at Huntington Beach hosted by Sifu William Holland and listed here.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=292750#post292750

My Sifu Felix Macias is one of the featured instructors. We are both taking our students.


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## punisher73 (Oct 25, 2004)

The problem is like some have said, many arts are "mixed martial arts" and existed LONG before Bruce ever came on the scene contrary to some of the hype surrounding him.

The term "Mixed Martial Arts" as alot of people think of it today starts with the first UFC.  It was to a good degree style vs. style, and then as time went on the contests became more style blended.  In the genre of NHB fighting and events such as Pride, UFC, King of the Cage, etc.  MMA usually refers to the "style" used in those contests which consists mainly of BJJ, boxing, wrestling, muay thai round kicks.  You will still occasionaly see another MA in there but these are the most common ones seen in these contests.

I guess a better question would be in applying the MMA term, is it just a blend of 2 primarily striking arts such as Isshin-Ryu (Goju+Shorin) or a blend of primarily grappling arts such as Judo, or is it an MA that has combined a striking art with a grappling art (Pankration) to come up with something that addresses all ranges of fighting.


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## ace (Oct 25, 2004)

I disagree That the UFC was the begining of 
MMA Competion Pancrase,UWFI , Fujiwara Gumi, & S.A.W.

Were out long before the UFC..

& Jeet Kune Do means >> Way of Intersepting Fist
not Art of  no bigy tho


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## Flatlander (Oct 25, 2004)

ace said:
			
		

> Jeet Kune Do means >> Way of Intersepting Fist
> not Art of no bigy tho


Correct you are, forgive my hasty response. :asian:


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## ace (Oct 25, 2004)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> Correct you are, forgive my hasty response. :asian:




Nothing to for Give Amigo.
it's just a name artyon:


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## Shogun (Oct 25, 2004)

Typically, MMA means any of the hybrid martial arts systems, typically seen in NHB competitions. not always though. Mixed martial arts is one style and philosophy that borrows the techniques and concepts of several different arts.
This excludes arts like Taekwondo, Shito ryu, and most "traditional" arts, simply because 
1.they do not bill themselves  as MMA
2. They contain techniques in an unaltered form, passed own in tradition


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## James Kovacich (Oct 26, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> Typically, MMA means any of the hybrid martial arts systems, typically seen in NHB competitions. not always though. Mixed martial arts is one style and philosophy that borrows the techniques and concepts of several different arts.
> This excludes arts like Taekwondo, Shito ryu, and most "traditional" arts, simply because
> 1.they do not bill themselves  as MMA
> 2. They contain techniques in an unaltered form, passed own in tradition



The exception being Ernie Reyes West Coast Tae Kwon Do. To my amazement Ernie's TKD is evolving with times. They are teaching headlocks / guitine chokes, lapel chokes, rear naked chokes, take downs, the guard, escaping the guard, taking the mount. 

It's still a Tae Kwon Do class. They do the forms and TKD sport sparring but have added a self defense element that caught me by surprise. At first I thought they were a bit sloppy but after watching them week after week I recognized that they've re-vamped they're system to survive in todays world.

My Eskrima teacher is master ranked in TKD under Ernie which he started when he was young and he teaches Eskrima at a West Coast school after the TKD classes are over. Thats how I came across this first hand.

One element in my system that won't be seen in freestyle martial arts is "my warrior code" which is on my homepage. It's bits and pieces of writings from over time but some of students come from the "street" and I expect them to leave that behind them. In my system for the most they are black belt or they are not. The academy pays they're test fees. So they don't get any certificates until black belt with the exception of "apprenticeships" which is a case by case basis. It's my quality control.


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## punisher73 (Oct 26, 2004)

To Ace:  

 I didn't say that the UFC was the first MMA style competition, I said that the TERM "MMA" to a lot of people starts with the first UFC.  How many people had heard of those other events on a wide scale before the UFC in the US?


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 26, 2004)

With all the additional techniques from different styles, is it still Tae Kwon Do?  If you throw a quart of ink into a quart of water, is it still water?





			
				akja said:
			
		

> The exception being Ernie Reyes West Coast Tae Kwon Do. To my amazement Ernie's TKD is evolving with times. They are teaching headlocks / guitine chokes, lapel chokes, rear naked chokes, take downs, the guard, escaping the guard, taking the mount.
> 
> It's still a Tae Kwon Do class. They do the forms and TKD sport sparring but have added a self defense element that caught me by surprise. At first I thought they were a bit sloppy but after watching them week after week I recognized that they've re-vamped they're system to survive in todays world.
> 
> ...


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## James Kovacich (Oct 26, 2004)

Patrick Skerry said:
			
		

> With all the additional techniques from different styles, is it still Tae Kwon Do?  If you throw a quart of ink into a quart of water, is it still water?


Thats a good question. On some nights it's pure TKD. Other nights they are in a type of "self defense mode." They don't "roll" like in BJJ, just doing for the most part singular & combo techniques along with the escapes.

I think that one could ask that same question of Combat Hapkido and it is recognized by Korea.


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## Rikki (Oct 26, 2004)

I think that Mixed Martial Arts is a horrible name for what I do because of this confusion. I dont do a mixed martial art; I do Mixed Martial Arts. Not to say that TKD that also grapples isnt a mixed martial art but its not the same as Mixed Martial Arts.

If I was looking for a new place to train in MMA and I walked into a school that advertised itself as such and they didnt do striking / wrestling / clinch / ground fighting I would be very upset. 

To me, MMA isnt necessarily a style because there are so many different factors that make it MMA. If an art doesnt practice everything against a resisting opponent, it is not MMA. If an art doesnt show you how to combine your stand-up skills with your ground skills, its not MMA. 

It is my belief that if a school has a boxing class and they have a wrestling class and they have a jiu-jitsu class, but no class that mixes all those together, they are not an MMA school.

Thats just my opinion.


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 27, 2004)

Rikki said:
			
		

> I think that Mixed Martial Arts is a horrible name for what I do because of this confusion. I dont do a mixed martial art; I do Mixed Martial Arts. Not to say that TKD that also grapples isnt a mixed martial art but its not the same as Mixed Martial Arts.
> 
> If I was looking for a new place to train in MMA and I walked into a school that advertised itself as such and they didnt do striking / wrestling / clinch / ground fighting I would be very upset.
> 
> ...


Hello Rikki,

I agree with the majority of what you said/wrote/expressed (mixed communications?).  The rub is that every style on my list does mix their jiu-jitsu with their judo with their savate with their karate to form some very effective self-defense.  I know that the Academy of Ketsugo has been around for over 40 years in Boston and have produced some excellent self-defense technicians.  And they all claim to be a mixed martial art.

But none of these styles are into prizefighting - tournaments and shiai's yes, but professional prizefighting of the PRIDE, UFC, K-1, etc. variety, no.

So maybe your criteria for a "Mixed Martial Art" and not a mixed martial art is the inclusion of a prizefighting component?


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## Rikki (Oct 27, 2004)

Patrick Skerry said:
			
		

> Hello Rikki,
> 
> I agree with the majority of what you said/wrote/expressed (mixed communications?). The rub is that every style on my list does mix their jiu-jitsu with their judo with their savate with their karate to form some very effective self-defense. I know that the Academy of Ketsugo has been around for over 40 years in Boston and have produced some excellent self-defense technicians. And they all claim to be a mixed martial art.
> 
> ...


Not at all. There are people who train in my gym that have no intention of ever fighting. They are there for self defense or recreation or fitness. 
Do the schools on your list mix all of those things into the same class and do they practice against truly resisting opponents? If so, I'd say that you are right.


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 27, 2004)

Rikki said:
			
		

> Not at all. There are people who train in my gym that have no intention of ever fighting. They are there for self defense or recreation or fitness.
> Do the schools on your list mix all of those things into the same class and do they practice against truly resisting opponents? If so, I'd say that you are right.


Hi Rikki,

I can only speak for three on the list from my personal experience: Bushido-kai; Ketsugo; and Renrikan, and all three of these do practice against resisting opponents, sometimes wearing 'Red Man' suits; sometimes wearing modified kendo equipment; or sometimes wearing basic chest protectors, the workouts can get very rough.  But the really rough realistic workouts are for the upper-level students.  They blend two or three or more styles together for self-defense purposes.

Some students are right off the streets and are mean as alleycats; and some students are computer geeks who have never had a fight in their lives - the non-athletic types are put in chest protectors and big boxing gloves and made to do some very supervised sparring to develop aggression and confidence in themselves and in some basic techniques.


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## ace (Oct 28, 2004)

punisher73 said:
			
		

> To Ace:
> 
> I didn't say that the UFC was the first MMA style competition, I said that the TERM "MMA" to a lot of people starts with the first UFC.  How many people had heard of those other events on a wide scale before the UFC in the US?




Great Point. 
I was not Trying to Attck U just pointing 
Something out. U are Write  
1 would have to realy follow the Sport  To know it's roots


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## Patrick Skerry (Oct 29, 2004)

I wonder if the eclectic Sugar Ryu Jiu Jitsu would qualify as a mix martial art?

http://www.sugarryu.com/events.html


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## Vadim (Oct 31, 2004)

The style I train in is a mixed martial art, Tiger Schulmann's Karate

http://www.tsk.com


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## James Kovacich (Nov 2, 2004)

akja said:
			
		

> The exception being Ernie Reyes West Coast Tae Kwon Do. To my amazement Ernie's TKD is evolving with times. They are teaching headlocks / guitine chokes, lapel chokes, rear naked chokes, take downs, the guard, escaping the guard, taking the mount.
> 
> It's still a Tae Kwon Do class. They do the forms and TKD sport sparring but have added a self defense element that caught me by surprise. At first I thought they were a bit sloppy but after watching them week after week I recognized that they've re-vamped they're system to survive in todays world.
> 
> ...



Last nite at West Coast TKD while the low ranks were doing self defense the brown belts were doing Eskrima. A bit basic but it's another example of how Ernie Reyes is ensuring his systems survival. 

I know someeone asked is it still Tae Kwon Do? I think at his Ernies level, he can re-vamp it as much as he see's fit. Rhoon Rhee re-vamped his long before Ernie.


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