# Different Filipino Weapons



## DRAVEN (Sep 16, 2003)

Just wondering if there were different weapons used based on reigons.  Like who used what.  Trying to find out what the ancient Bicol warriors used, espeacially from Camarines Sur.  I can only find photos of the Kailinga tribe from the north and Moro tribes from the south.  Any help will ba appreciated, tryin to know my roots.  THANX


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## arnisandyz (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey Rich,

Don't know how accurate this is but this is what I was told. If you hear conflicting  or supportive stories let me know.

Indonesian influence in the south due to location and because the Spanish didn't conquer that area.  Moro type weapons like barong, Kris, kerambit

European influence in the Central where the Spanish did occupy.  Longer thinner saber blades for example as well as use of sticks from the weapons ban.

Agricultural influence in the North.  Bolos and other "farmer" type weapons similar to Okinawa.  I think the Igorots were also from the north, but I'm not sure.  Shields, spears, bow and arrow.

Somebody set me straight!

Andy


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## krys (Sep 17, 2003)

Hello Rich,

Here are some southern filipino weapons from the muslim areas:

Short Kris (only for stabing), Kris sword, Pyra, Barong, Kampilan, Bolo, many different knives, bow, sling, spear, staff, rope, malong..... buntot pagi.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.


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## Cruentus (Sep 17, 2003)

My skrima teacher used to also carry a .45!


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## DRAVEN (Sep 17, 2003)

kewl,  my parents had bolos, but didn't everyone.  LOL, some of my uncles have a "Porty-Pibe" too....lol

anyway, thanx for some info. if anyone has more please reply.
p.s. Hey Andy, I havn't forgot, i'm still editing the drills for you...
RICH


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## Federico (Sep 18, 2003)

Check out the Ethnographic Edge Weapons Resource Site or  EEWRS 
For more information on Philippine weaponry.  The forum is quite knowledgeable.


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## kenpo12 (Sep 19, 2003)

What kind of a weapon is a barong?  Last time I checked "barong referred to a traditional shirt or a dance.  In what dialect or tribe is this weapon referred to as a barong?  

Thanks

Matt


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## krys (Sep 19, 2003)

The barong is a large  leaf shaped blade.
It is one of the favorite weapons of the Tausug (and Yakan) tribes of Sulu-Basilan.....
It is said that an expert  with a barong can cut a man in two......


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## OULobo (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo12 _
> *What kind of a weapon is a barong?  Last time I checked "barong referred to a traditional shirt or a dance.  In what dialect or tribe is this weapon referred to as a barong?
> 
> Thanks
> ...



The word barong is very ecclectic. 

The dance is part of a Indonesian Balinese Hindu story/opera. Ironically the main characters/components are called the barong and keris, the names of common weapons of the area. 

The shirt is a shear white shirt that is traditional and often seen in weddings and casually too. I have heard that it is shear so that peole can see if you are carrying a blade or weapon.

The weapon, sometimes refered to as a barung, is a "leaf shaped" sword that was common through out the Philippines, but mostly associated with the moro of the south. While the barong is distinct in its shape, it is possible to tell differances in design per tribe/island/area. This is also hard though do to cross-contamination between tribes and the common practice of changing parts of a weapon that was won in combat but that is from a different tribe/island/area. Essentially customizing a beaten opponent's design.

FMA weps are my passion.


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## OULobo (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> *The barong is a large  leaf shaped blade.
> It is one of the favorite weapons of the Tausug (and Yakan) tribes of Sulu-Basilan.....
> It is said that an expert  with a barong can cut a man in two...... *



Damn you beat me to it. 

The barong is also quite common in the Maranao and Maguindanao tribes of Mindanao.


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## Federico (Sep 19, 2003)

Oulobo, where'd you get your classification of barongs?  As well as information concerning Mindanao based barongs?  Here is a picture of a barong.


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## OULobo (Sep 19, 2003)

Federico

Classifications? All I gave was a general discription of the weapon and the other meanings/associations of the word.

The Mindanao barongs I'm refering to are the contempory ones that are flooding the local markets. They are close to traditional design, but they are recognizable as not authentic. I think they are hand made so I mention them also. There are also quite a few drifters that turn up in the markets in Mindanao that come from across the strait from Sulu and Borneo. I know what you are getting at and I reconize Sulu and Palawan as the historical home of the barong. My sources include second hand accounts of visits and the EEWF. BTW nice to see a familiar face on this forum too.


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## arnisandyz (Sep 19, 2003)

I was told the same thing, that the Barong Tagalog (the shirt) was so the Spaniards could tell if locals were carrying blades underneath, don't know if this true or more folklore.  I asked Professor Presas about this and he looked at me like I was crazy and kept saying its a shirt, its just a shirt...but very nice!  Something to strenthen the argument against,  I thought it was usually worn by rich busnessmen or politicians during its invention.  It doesn't look likea shirt a common person on the street might wear. I just got 2 very nice Barong Tagalogs from my mother-in-law, I love wearing them for formal occasions, what other shirt can your wear to a formal event untucked?   For those not familiar, the fabric is a woven from pineapple leaves which is very fine and transparent, its really cool.

Andy


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## Federico (Sep 19, 2003)

Oulobo in your previous post you had stated





> While the barong is distinct in its shape, it is possible to tell differances in design per tribe/island/area.


 which made me wonder if something new has been published, as since as far as I knew the only distinct style was Yakan.  Especially with the Mindanao reference, figured that maybe there was a new book or something out(cant keep up with everything).  Always looking for new theories/resources.  Id like to be able to tell the difference between Samal and Tausug barong, or if they are from Tawi Tawi or Jolo.  

As for barong sword vs barong tagalog shirt vs barong mask.  Spelling can be misleading.  Particularly with Moro words, their romanization is often arbitrary, done willy nilly by Westerners often very unfamiliar with the area/traditions/peoples.  Hence the variety of spellings one can even see for the word kris.  From kris, creese, keris, kalis, etc...  All phonetically sound the same, however all are Western attempts at romanizing foreign words, and thus their spelling has no innate connection to the native.  Part of the reason I argue against claiming kali comes from kalis.  Since while romanized they seem similar, phonetically they are vastly different.  

As for the Barong Tagalog shirt being forced upon filipinos so Spaniard could see if theyre wearing weapons, as far as I can tell its just a legend with no basis in fact.  Looking at period pics of the everyday wear of Christian Filipinos would seem to suggest that transparent shirts werent of the norm.  Even older barong tagalogs werent as transparent as some of the newer ones.  As has also been suggested barong tagalogs are formal shirts, worn by the rich (like a business suit).


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## OULobo (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Federico _
> *Oulobo in your previous post you had stated which made me wonder if something new has been published, as since as far as I knew the only distinct style was Yakan.  Especially with the Mindanao reference, figured that maybe there was a new book or something out(cant keep up with everything).  Always looking for new theories/resources.  Id like to be able to tell the difference between Samal and Tausug barong, or if they are from Tawi Tawi or Jolo.
> 
> *



No, I haven't seen anything new in terms of publications or theories. I wish I had. Just the usual stuff from Stone and Cato. I was more or less just regurgitating the general stuff. However, as a question, what do you consider the Shandigan barong? Is this just a different style or is it from someplace/ tribe in specific. 

As for the pronunciations, I had to ask some help on these. I'm not going to go through the whole kali vs. arnis/eskrima issue, only because it had been done to death here before (I think there is still some bad blood lingering). The other phoenetic terms I just use for convention's sake. Its easier to use the term everyone else is and just tell them about the different terms, than it is to try to get them to use the other more correct terms. For instance I have found kris is generally used for the moro/filipino weapon and keris is more to describe the Indonesian version. 

I'm glad you brought up the barong mask. I had forgotten about that. That is a fourth common usage of the word. For those of you who don't know, the hand carved masks or plaques that resmble demons are also called barongs. 

The last time I heard anything specific about the shirts was that it was used in weddings. I'm not sure I put much credance in the Spaniards claim, but everyone seems to love a good story.


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## kenpo12 (Sep 22, 2003)

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm not too sure about the claim that it's see through to check for weapons either, as I've seen quite a few barongs that aren't see through.  I don't know about the usage of the shirt in the past but today it's worn as a formal shirt,  it would be worn to what Americans might wear a nice suit or a tuxedo, eg. wedding, formal dinner, or a debutante.  At least that is what I've seen and my understanding.

Matt


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## Cruentus (Sep 22, 2003)

I always thought that the see through Barong was just formal wear. It doesn't seem that they would have been forced by Spaniards, as people mostly only wore them for formal occasions, not every day.

My 2 cents...


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## Leo Daher (Sep 23, 2003)

The new Cold Steel barong (the sword, not the shirt  ) should be available after November 15: http://www.ltspecpro.com/88pb.html


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## OULobo (Sep 23, 2003)

These cold steels have been on ebay for a couple of months already. They were down to $45.00 last time I checked.


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## arnisandyz (Sep 23, 2003)

Thanks for posting that Leo.  The Barong doesn't look bad, but its missing the metal ferrule (collar) around the throat of the handle.  It looks kind of weak with just the wood and two small pins holding it.  I doubt that anyone would use it for heavy chopping (kind of expensive to use as a machete or ax), but that metal collar is more for just looks, it really strengthens the handle to blade connection.

I have this one from Atlanta Cutlery http://www.atlantacutlery.com/ethnic.html
its heavy steel but not sharpened. I use it more for training than actual use, but I guess you could sharpen it if you wanted an actual working barong.  Suckers heavy - about 1/4 along the spline that tapers down to the edge, quality is good, but the sheath came overly laquered.  I ended up sanding it all off and finishing the natural wood.


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## OULobo (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisandyz _
> *Thanks for posting that Leo.  The Barong doesn't look bad, but its missing the metal ferrule (collar) around the throat of the handle.  It looks kind of weak with just the wood and two small pins holding it.  I doubt that anyone would use it for heavy chopping (kind of expensive to use as a machete or ax), but that metal collar is more for just looks, it really strengthens the handle to blade connection.
> 
> I have this one from Atlanta Cutlery http://www.atlantacutlery.com/ethnic.html
> its heavy steel but not sharpened. I use it more for training than actual use, but I guess you could sharpen it if you wanted an actual working barong.  Suckers heavy - about 1/4 along the spline that tapers down to the edge, quality is good, but the sheath came overly laquered.  I ended up sanding it all off and finishing the natural wood. *



I haven't gotten to handle one of the Cold Steel ones yet but, I agree, they don't look very sturdy. there isn't much of a tang and there is very little reinforcment. I have two of the Atlanta ones and I love the feel. They are pretty heavy and fairly authentic in features and dimentions. Like you I have only used it for training as I don't like the idea of a barong for work (that's what kukris are for).


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## Leo Daher (Sep 23, 2003)

Hi Andy,


Ray mentioned the Atlanta Cutlery barong a few days ago - he was positively impressed. Can't go wrong with that price either.

BTW, I did a search on eBay and found out Ron Balicki is selling a barong with a starting bid of $44.99 - doesn't say anything about Cold Steel, but looks a lot like it. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2193055421&category=20272#ebayphotohosting

Interestingly, Balicki has been selling CS barongs that didn't pass quality control as "strictly wall hangers" for $129.99 on his website:

http://www.ronbalicki.com/coldsteel_barong.htm


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## arnisandyz (Sep 23, 2003)

Leo,

I showed Ray my AC Barong about three years ago and he liked it.  Its a good piece, nice enough to hang on your wall and sturdy enough to train with.

That's strange that Balicki is selling rejects for only $10 less than the MSRP of a good one. And on ebay before the CS release date.


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## Leo Daher (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisandyz _
> *
> That's strange that Balicki is selling rejects for only $10 less than the MSRP of a good one. And on ebay before the CS release date. *



Not to mention the big difference in price between what he's selling on eBay and the rejects on his website (assuming it's the same product, and it sure looks like it is). Strange indeed...


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## DoxN4cer (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenpo12 _
> *What kind of a weapon is a barong?  Last time I checked "barong referred to a traditional shirt or a dance.  In what dialect or tribe is this weapon referred to as a barong?
> 
> Thanks
> ...



More specifically  the term "barong tagaolg" (barong for short) refers to the sheer overshirt worn as formal wear in the PI. 

The barong (the cutting tool) itself appears to be utilized throughout the Visayas and Mindanao; not sure about Luzon.  I'm not sure which dialect but the prevalent ones are Illongo, Cebuano, Waray-Waray and Bisaya. I'm not really up on all of the languages in Mindanao. Check out the Tanakalang Ginto search engine. You may be able to find out more though somthing you find linked there.

Tim Kashino


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## sercuerdasfigther (Oct 2, 2003)

i bought the cs barong off ebay, and for the price you can't beat it. it is well put together in no way flimsy, and could be used if need to fight.


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## OULobo (Oct 2, 2003)

I've picked up two AC barongs from trades and I love'um.  I haven't gotten to handle the CS one, but I don't like the space it looks like it has in the tang/hilt interface. Besides the AC one is pretty close to a traditional design pattern, whereas the CS one has had some artistic and structural freedoms taken in design, it looks like.


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