# Florida Girl Found Dead By Sex Offender



## Kane (Mar 19, 2005)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/florida.girl/

 The suspected sex offender confessed recreantly that he killed the girl, after lying for a few days.

 I really hope this man dies. SUFFERS AND DIES! Sorry if that sounds harsh or offensive to anyone, but death is what all criminals should get. However today the justice system has gotten so soft, it is no wonder the US has one of the most numbers of prisoners in jail in the world.

 In my opinion, the reason why such cold-hearted killings happen so often is because the penalty they receive. If we look back in the 50s, we will all notice the crime rate was much lower than it was today. 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020712.html

 "_You grew up in the 40s, 50s, and early 60s._ Different story. People who were children then recall a much more peaceful time than now, and it was. The violent crime rate in 1960 was under 200 per 100,000, less than 40 percent what it is today."

 As the article said, there were many factors that contributed on why the crime rate was so much lower then than it is now. I however think the main chief reason is because back then those criminals received the death penalty nearly 99% of the time. Now a days a criminals or sex offenders know that if they kill the least punishment they will get is 20 years in prison and many cases at the most life in prison. Oh yea, that is really a good punishment for a cold hearted killer. I mean it is at least a little different if the killing comes out of anger. Most of the killings today are pre-mediated murders. These SOBs in my opinion need be killed, that is the only punishment for cold-hearted deaths, unless there is more cruel way to punish them for the 10 times more cruel way they killed their victim.

 Oh and don't give me the cruel and unusual punishment crap. What about the cruel and unusual death these criminals gave to their victims?

  Do you think this man should get DEATH?


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## Bammx2 (Mar 19, 2005)

NAAAWWW!
Don't give him the death penalty.
He should get life...in a regular old run of the mill maximum security prison and they should put him in general population.
THEN...Bubba and his 39 siblings can let him know what that little girl was feeling right up to the very end. 20 or 30 times over til............


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## Kempogeek (Mar 19, 2005)

I completely agree with you Kane. Im a strong supporter of capital punishment. I do respect the views of opponents of capital punishment but don't give me that crap of "playing God" when executing a murderer that's been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That's my major sticking point. Granted it won't bring the girl back but seems only fair that he should give up his life for taking a life. This girl won't have a childhood, going to her school prom, possibly college, maybe marriage and a bright future. No thanks to this sorry ****** ******! I would have this ******* in solitary confindment 24/7 with only bread and water to live on with a beating every now and then before straping him to the chair. Lethal injection is just too easy. Let him feel the pain that this girl must have felt. See you in hell you *******!!......Steve



*Please review Profanity Filter Policy here - Kaith
*


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## Flatlander (Mar 19, 2005)

I'm not really sure what issue specifically that you would like to address here, but I am curious about one of your claims.





			
				Kane said:
			
		

> Most of the killings today are pre-mediated murders.


Most, as in how many?  According to whom?


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## Kane (Mar 19, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I'm not really sure what issue specifically that you would like to address here, but I am curious about one of your claims.Most, as in how many? According to whom?


 Sex offender killings are mostly pre-mediated murder.


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## shesulsa (Mar 19, 2005)

Sorry - I had a hard time tracking this too - the subject reads that the girl was found by the sex offender, but I get it now ... she was killed BY the sex offender.


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## Tgace (Mar 19, 2005)

Personal Opinion follows..

IMO many people make bad decisions, get arrested, do time and eventually change into "decent" citizens. Then there are others with MULTIPLE arrests, sexual offense and violent histories that just plain will never be rehabilitated. Is life imprisonment the answer? Maybe, maybe not. But just having somebody "register" and hardly tracking them thereafter isnt the answer either. Heck we have "juvenile delinquents" here that have to wear ankle bracelets....



http://www.sexoffender.com/sorecidivism.html

An interesting site that studies recidivism rates of sex offenders.......


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## kenpo tiger (Mar 19, 2005)

So -- are you saying that if someone 'makes a mistake' once and seems to be rehabilitated, he should be allowed back out on the street?

As to solitary confinement, possibly.  I like the idea of Bubba, et al much much better.

I don't know if I could forgive anyone such a heinous crime - ever.


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## Tgace (Mar 19, 2005)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> So -- are you saying that if someone 'makes a mistake' once and seems to be rehabilitated, he should be allowed back out on the street?
> 
> As to solitary confinement, possibly. I like the idea of Bubba, et al much much better.
> 
> I don't know if I could forgive anyone such a heinous crime - ever.


I believe I said "bad decision" which is far different from "mistake". In some cases, yes depending on the crime, my statement was more "universal" than directed at this particular case.

Personally I would loose no sleep if this premeditating child rapist/killer got the needle. Life behind bars works too though.


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## Flatlander (Mar 20, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Sex offender killings are mostly pre-mediated murder.


According to whom? Please cite a source for this claim.  It's important that we ascertain the validity of your assertion here, as the justification for your belief that all sex offenders who kill ought ot be executed relies on the validity of the proposition that they are premeditating the kill.


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## rmcrobertson (Mar 20, 2005)

The vast majority of sex offenses and assaults against children are committed by family members. We play up the minority of cases because it's a helluva lot easier than dealing with that reality.


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## Kempogeek (Mar 20, 2005)

My deepest apologies to Mr. Rustaz and everyone on this forum for my posting on this topic. My entry should have been more presentable. I want to continue to be a member in good standings. Capital punishment can be a hot button for me but that's no excuse for my wording. Again my apologies. Best regards, Steve


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## Melissa426 (Mar 20, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/florida.girl/
> 
> Sorry if that sounds harsh or offensive to anyone, but death is what all criminals should get.


All criminals? Even the kids caught with a beer after high-school graduation.
I am assuming you really don't mean _all_ criminals, just the ones convicted of  violent sexual crimes or murder. Correct me if I am wrong.

I have mixed thoughts. I am a law-abiding citizen, who believes the justice is blind and the system generally works.
But, if someone did that what this jerk in Florida did to a child/relative of mine, I would consider taking the law into my own hands. I don't know how and I am pretty sure I'd get caught, regardless.  But I could see myself spending many hours contemplating the deed. 

Peace,
Melissa


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## Kane (Mar 20, 2005)

Melissa426 said:
			
		

> All criminals? Even the kids caught with a beer after high-school graduation.
> I am assuming you really don't mean _all_ criminals, just the ones convicted of  violent sexual crimes or murder. Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> I have mixed thoughts. I am a law-abiding citizen, who believes the justice is blind and the system generally works.
> ...


 I mean murders, lol.


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## Tgace (Mar 20, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> The vast majority of sex offenses and assaults against children are committed by family members. We play up the minority of cases because it's a helluva lot easier than dealing with that reality.


Absolutely true. And sadly the number reported are probably just the tip of the iceberg, as MANY go unreported. As to us dealing with that reality though, its tough to deal with problems that we arent made aware of....


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## MissTwisties (Mar 20, 2005)

Personally, I wouldn't care if they get the needle, but I have to wonder if by taking the criminal's life ourselves, if it makes us better than him? On the other end, I think prisons today are becoming almost like luxurious hotels for criminals. TV's and movie nights? Education? Playing sports outside? Eating 5 stars food? I don't think so! Specially when we know who pay for all that...the rest of us! Prison shouldn't be a safe haven for the killers, rapists, etc. it should be a place where it's hard to live, where it's no fun and where you actually have to live to REGRET what you have done to someone else.


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## rmcrobertson (Mar 20, 2005)

You've never actually BEEN in a prison, have you? I have. The fantasy that they're fun is exactly a fantasy.

I repeat: most of the godawful crimes are comitted by relatives. We fixate on the exceptions because it's easier than dealing with reality.


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## Tgace (Mar 20, 2005)

Get any tattoos?


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## rmcrobertson (Mar 20, 2005)

Nope. Just offers. Of various kinds.


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## Tgace (Mar 20, 2005)

LOL! Im sure. 

What you say is true though. But its the media (then by default, us) IMO that focuses on these cases. Statistically child abduction is minuscule, but the media onslaught that follows after every occurrence has people scrambling to monitor their childs every second...


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 21, 2005)

(sidenote, not meant as thread gank)

_I love seeing robertson and tgace chat and, I think, agree!  I get warm fuzzies._


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## Tgace (Mar 21, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> (sidenote, not meant as thread gank)
> 
> _I love seeing robertson and tgace chat and, I think, agree! I get warm fuzzies._


Waiting for the earthquake, eclipse and the third Angel to pour forth his bowl of fire upon the earth?


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 21, 2005)

Naw!  Just basking in the warm glowing warming glow.


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## kenpo tiger (Mar 22, 2005)

Robert did prison time?

The idol has clay feet?

Robert and Tgace chatting?

What _is_ this world coming to?!:idunno:


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## Tgace (Mar 22, 2005)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Robert did prison time?


Well, to be fair, he only said he's "been in" a prison (could have been teaching). Not that he "did time". But the mind does wander.....


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## kenpo tiger (Mar 22, 2005)

And the legend continues...

Tune in next week for more thrilling tales of yesteryear...  quick - wherezat from?


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 23, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> According to whom? Please cite a source for this claim. It's important that we ascertain the validity of your assertion here, as the justification for your belief that all sex offenders who kill ought ot be executed relies on the validity of the proposition that they are premeditating the kill.


First, lets imagine a scenario where a sex offender purposely decides to molest a child, then "accidentally" kills the child. Even if we believed they did "accidentally" kill the child while molesting them, do any of us but a select few care if it was accidental or not? I certainly don't. The fact that the act occurred as a result of that person sexually assaulting a child is enough for me to put the rope around their neck and pull.  I don't care whether he planned on murdering the child BEFORE the sexual assault, or just thought it up afterwards to avoid being caught, I don't see how that effects societies decision to have him do the hangman's jig.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 23, 2005)

MissTwisties said:
			
		

> Personally, I wouldn't care if they get the needle, but I have to wonder if by taking the criminal's life ourselves, if it makes us better than him? On the other end, I think prisons today are becoming almost like luxurious hotels for criminals. TV's and movie nights? Education? Playing sports outside? Eating 5 stars food? I don't think so! Specially when we know who pay for all that...the rest of us! Prison shouldn't be a safe haven for the killers, rapists, etc. it should be a place where it's hard to live, where it's no fun and where you actually have to live to REGRET what you have done to someone else.


It's also expensive. A rope and gallows costs very little. Money spent on maximum security prisons would be better spent in communities to keep kids out of prisons, medical research, roads, schools, etc. 

Hang a murder, spend the money in the community.  It's the ultimate rehab, the recidivism rate is 0%.


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## Drac (Mar 23, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> NAAAWWW!
> Don't give him the death penalty.
> He should get life...in a regular old run of the mill maximum security prison and they should put him in general population.
> THEN...Bubba and his 39 siblings can let him know what that little girl was feeling right up to the very end. 20 or 30 times over til............


 
Couldn't have said it better myself...


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## Loki (Mar 23, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/25/florida.girl/
> 
> The suspected sex offender confessed recreantly that he killed the girl, after lying for a few days.
> 
> ...


Have you seen "The Life of David Gale"?

To take it to the capital punishment argument (momentarily, of course), I'd say it's generally a bad public policy idea, so it shouldn't apply to anyone.

Morally speaking, at the level of individual justice, I don't feel we have enough information to judge, information being the article and your claim he confessed. There are alternate scenarios to his being a cold-blooded rapist-killer. He's committed a hideous crime, and no doubt deserves to be punished, but killers are rarely the monsters we make them out to be. Adolf Eichmann disappointed many people who tried to show him as an inhuman monster by proving to be an exceptionally ordinary person. Same goes for Rudolph Hess.

A lot of people fear criminals will use the temporary insanity defense, but that works about 1% of the time, and when it does, they're committed to an asylum, which can be far worse than prison.

For a better understanding of evil and why these behaviors occur, I suggest Lyall Watson's "Dark Nature". Great read.

~ Loki


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## Seig (Mar 23, 2005)

Monster or no, if someone murders someone during the commission of a sexual assault, the death penalty is what they deserve in my opinion.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 23, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Have you seen "The Life of David Gale"?
> 
> To take it to the capital punishment argument (momentarily, of course), I'd say it's generally a bad public policy idea, so it shouldn't apply to anyone.
> 
> ...


I wasn't impressed by the Life of David Gale. It was a simple strawman argument of a movie, and it didn't address the issue, it attempted to pull a fast one on the issue. I'm waiting for a truly honest thought provoking movie on the death penalty that deals with the real issue from both sides, not tries to cleverly stack the deck by being dishonest. It can be done. American History X was an honest and thought provoking movie about racism in America, and it did so without being disingenous.

As for what is a monster? A monster is what a monster does...like rape and murder little girls.  He should have his neck stretched.


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## Flatlander (Mar 23, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> First, lets imagine a scenario where a sex offender purposely decides to molest a child, then "accidentally" kills the child. Even if we believed they did "accidentally" kill the child while molesting them, do any of us but a select few care if it was accidental or not? I certainly don't. The fact that the act occurred as a result of that person sexually assaulting a child is enough for me to put the rope around their neck and pull. I don't care whether he planned on murdering the child BEFORE the sexual assault, or just thought it up afterwards to avoid being caught, I don't see how that effects societies decision to have him do the hangman's jig.


I suppose that would depend upon whether your interest was in applying the law as it is, or having it changed.  As it is, there is no capital punishment provision for non-premeditated murder.  This was my point.


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## Tgace (Mar 23, 2005)

But in a situation such as this. This guy didnt spontaneously walk into another persons home, happen to find a little girl there and on the spur of the moment decide to do what he did. This guy knew this girl was there and planned what he did....


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## Loki (Mar 24, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> I wasn't impressed by the Life of David Gale. It was a simple strawman argument of a movie, and it didn't address the issue, it attempted to pull a fast one on the issue. I'm waiting for a truly honest thought provoking movie on the death penalty that deals with the real issue from both sides, not tries to cleverly stack the deck by being dishonest. It can be done. American History X was an honest and thought provoking movie about racism in America, and it did so without being disingenous.
> 
> As for what is a monster? A monster is what a monster does...like rape and murder little girls. He should have his neck stretched.


Know the saying "Better to release 10 guilty men than to imprison one innocent man"? Makes it all more severe with death on the line.

A monster is what a monster does? I don't think so. Look soley at actions is like saying that 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter and self-defense are all the same.

~ Loki


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 24, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Know the saying "Better to release 10 guilty men than to imprison one innocent man"? Makes it all more severe with death on the line.
> 
> A monster is what a monster does? I don't think so. Look soley at actions is like saying that 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter and self-defense are all the same.
> 
> ~ Loki


First of all, no one said anything about imprisoning an innocent man. Guilt in this case is not in question, merely the punishment, so that is a bit of a strawman argument. 

Second, nothing you said challenges my statement "A monster is what a monster does". You simply listed different acts. Your argument would only apply if all those acts were the same, which they are not. A large line exists between 1st degree murder and self-defense. If you commit 1st degree murder, you are a murderer (and a monster, according to the argument). If you committed an act of self-defense, you are a not a murderer. So your argument is moot and another strawman.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 24, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I suppose that would depend upon whether your interest was in applying the law as it is, or having it changed. As it is, there is no capital punishment provision for non-premeditated murder. This was my point.


You're mistaken as to the application of the law. The murder was committed as a result of a premediated act. He wasn't just wandering through the girls bedroom and thought "wow, think i'll kidnap her". So we have prima facia evidence of premediation. The state does not have to prove, at this point, that he committed the murder as a spontaneous act. It is evidence enough that he planned the kidnapping (Which only has to consist of carrying it out, in this case). After kidnapping the girl, it's all irrelavent, because the act that led to her death was in no way spontaneous. Premediation isn't an issue in this case. The issue that would make it a capital offense is really about this being act that would shock the concience (which no sane person would dispute) and whether the murder was committed with factors that would aggravate cirumstances (the sexual assault). None of this is in dispute.


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## Flatlander (Mar 24, 2005)

OK, thanks.  I actually didn't know that.

So, to be clear, then, it is not required that the homicide itself be premeditated, rather, the fact that it was committed in connection to another premeditated act is sufficient to warrant capital punishment.  Is that correct?


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## Tgace (Mar 24, 2005)

Following are the crimes that fall under Capital Murder: 

* Robbery and Murder 
* Two or more murders at one time 
* Rape and Murder 
* Kidnapping and Murder 
* The Murder of a Child under the age of six 
* Car-jacking and Murder [Federal] 
* Murder of a Police Officer while in the official course of duty 
* Serial Killings 
* Murder for Hire [note: The Hitman and person who paid him will be charged and tried for Capital Murder and the death penalty should the state's attorney choose to do so] 
* Arson Causing Death


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## heretic888 (Mar 24, 2005)

Call me crazy....

but, I just personally happen to think that murdering another human being --- even when we call it nice little labels like "capital punishment" or "state execution" so we don't have to worry about what it _really_ is ---- for _any_ reason other than self-protection or protection of others...

... is just _wrong_.


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## Tgace (Mar 24, 2005)

What about when you are out hunting, miss the target and hit a hunter on the next hill?  Laws are so intricate because there are so many variables in the real world.....


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## heretic888 (Mar 24, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> What about when you are out hunting, miss the target and hit a hunter on the next hill?  Laws are so intricate because there are so many variables in the real world.....



By the sound of it, that qualifies as an accident. Accidents _do_ happen.

But murder is not an accident. Murder is murder.

One should resort to killing only when left with no other choice. 

That's my stand, anyway.


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## Tgace (Mar 24, 2005)

Thats pretty much the way it is now isnt it?

Now take my previous example and place the hunter in close proximity to a housing development. Shot hits a mom going out to her car. Still "accidental", but "reckless"....all are "homicide". Add intent and you get murder (in association with things like kidnapping, rape, serial killing, its a Capital offense). Add other variables and you get manslaughter. No other variables, plain accidental. 

What do you believe is currently going on in our justice system that is otherwise?


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## heretic888 (Mar 24, 2005)

I think the willfull intentional execution of another human being is murder, state-sanctioned or not.

On a side note, I do fully agree with the situational issues that you're bringing up.


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## Tgace (Mar 24, 2005)

Well, I guess you are making a moral vs. "legal" argument there, which is fine. As murder is the "intentional and unlawfull" taking of life, and Capital Punishment is "lawfull" per se. It isnt "murder" by the legal definition....


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## heretic888 (Mar 24, 2005)

Wasn't using the "legal" definition, brah.


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## Tgace (Mar 24, 2005)

Thats cool. Personally Im pro-CP, but not so militantly so that I care to really get into heated debate over it. If ya know what I mean.


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