# shaolin long fist



## Hanzo04 (Aug 10, 2004)

can anyone tell me what shaolin long fist is all about and what makes it unique?


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## Hanzo04 (Aug 17, 2004)

how come know one will respond to this thread? i don't get it. isn't shaolin long fist a well known style of kung fu?


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## Black Tiger Fist (Aug 17, 2004)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> can anyone tell me what shaolin long fist is all about and what makes it unique?


Shaolin Longfist is a genetic term ,there are many Shaolin Longfist styles ,which are you refering to?

jeff


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## Hanzo04 (Aug 17, 2004)

finally someone responds! i don't know what type of long fist's there are. is there a main style?


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## Shogun (Aug 17, 2004)

I dont know much about long fist. It is a northern style, 12 hand forms, 2 partner forms, 9 solo weapon forms, and 2 partner weapon forms. It emphasizes long to mid range. From what I've seen, Long Fist looks like Wing Chun, only about 2-3' further away. I beleive there is 12 styles of Chang Chuan. Long Fist has many different leaps and jumps as well.


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## Black Tiger Fist (Aug 18, 2004)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> finally someone responds! i don't know what type of long fist's there are. is there a main style?


I'd say the most common longfist style ,is Bak Sil Lum (Northern Shaolin) You can find it almost anywhere.



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> From what I've seen, Long Fist looks like Wing Chun, only about 2-3' further away. I beleive there is 12 styles of Chang Chuan. Long Fist has many different leaps and jumps as well.


Hmmm

I don't know what longfist you've seen that looks anything like Wing Chun.:idunno: 

Wing Chun tends to have alot of inclose straight line attacks ,where Longfist has more circular flowing and yes longrange attacks. Also Longfist has many kicking techniques ,where as Wing Chun doesn't use many kicks.

There are a few different styles of longfist that is true. you also have Piqua (Pek Kwar) among others.

Bak Sil Lum is cantonese i can't remember the Mandarin spelling for Northern Shaolin.

jeff


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## clfsean (Aug 18, 2004)

Black Tiger Fist said:
			
		

> Bak Sil Lum is cantonese i can't remember the Mandarin spelling for Northern Shaolin.
> 
> jeff


Jeff ... Bei Shaolin ...  

Sean


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## Black Tiger Fist (Aug 18, 2004)

clfsean said:
			
		

> Jeff ... Bei Shaolin ...
> 
> Sean


Indeed!

Thanks Sean!:ultracool 


jeff


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## clfsean (Aug 18, 2004)

:boing1: Not a prob!


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## RHD (Aug 18, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> I dont know much about long fist. It is a northern style, 12 hand forms, 2 partner forms, 9 solo weapon forms, and 2 partner weapon forms. It emphasizes long to mid range. From what I've seen, Long Fist looks like Wing Chun, only about 2-3' further away. I beleive there is 12 styles of Chang Chuan. Long Fist has many different leaps and jumps as well.



I don't know about that...from my understanding, Long Fist is just about the closest thing to being the opposite of Wing Chun.  Wing Chun may have been developed specifically to combat long range styles.

Mike


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## Dronak (Aug 21, 2004)

I think Black Tiger Fist is right, Shaolin long fist is probably a bit too generic.  FWIW, the style I was taught in the classes I took was called "northern long fist Shaolin kung fu" -- I've always thought that sounded rather general, but that's what we got.  If you can dig up my old threads about my training where I was telling people what sort of forms we were learning when, those will give you an idea of what we learned.


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## Silo-Fu Kung-Fu (Mar 31, 2005)

When you hear "Long fist" it usually refers to fighting (punching) at long range, about the same range as if you were kicking, but you get to use your hands.

 Some long fiist styles would be Crane style kung-fu, and plum flower (Aka Moi Fa)


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## 7starmantis (Mar 31, 2005)

Silo-Fu Kung-Fu said:
			
		

> When you hear "Long fist" it usually refers to fighting (punching) at long range, about the same range as if you were kicking, but you get to use your hands.
> 
> Some long fiist styles would be Crane style kung-fu, and plum flower (Aka Moi Fa)


 I dont agree. Long Fist is not actually associated with distance fighting. Its pretty hard to fight with your hands a kicking range, legs are much longer than arms. To use your arms, you must close in and that is included in Long Fist as well, which makes it no longer fighting at a distance.

  7sm


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## Infrazael (Mar 31, 2005)

Does Northern Longfist styles have bridging at all??? Just curious.

Because sean and I both do CLF which is Southern Longfist.


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## clfsean (Mar 31, 2005)

7* is dead on. It's not about range so much as it is about useage. 

As INfrazel said, we both do CLF which is a Southern Long Fist. We don't stand outside & try to attack in. That's just not bright. We tend to close in with long strikes & footwork that sets up sweeps & take downs if the "punch" doesn't connect as a "punch". 

For example, I can turn a Sao Choy (sweeping punch) or Pao Choy (long uppercut) into sweeps & take downs depending on my footwork & positioning just as easy as using them as headhunters.

Infraz... yeah they bridge, but a little different than we do in opening, but application time is all the same.


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## j_m (Mar 31, 2005)

Clfsean is correct about 7* being correct :supcool: 


Long fist has little to do with the distance of fighting and it bridges the same as, or at least very similar to, styles such as PM and CLF.  After all, figting is all about getting close and personal... which is what northern longfist styles like to do.




jm


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## Infrazael (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm been looking at the 10 seeds again, and they can pretty much be bridged one way or another, kinda like Hung Gar's 12 bridges (but different in it's application tho).


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## clfsean (Mar 31, 2005)

Infrazael said:
			
		

> I'm been looking at the 10 seeds again, and they can pretty much be bridged one way or another, kinda like Hung Gar's 12 bridges (but different in it's application tho).


Right... also watch your stepping patterns as well for closing range & setting up leg locks & traps with your punching... 

All 10 seeds can be bridges. 5 Animals are also bridges. They all lend their own take to bridgin the gap & opening


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## Infrazael (Apr 1, 2005)

Never tried leg locks before. Trapping? Mabye, if I can close enough.


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## clfsean (Apr 1, 2005)

Infrazael said:
			
		

> Never tried leg locks before. Trapping? Mabye, if I can close enough.


Hmmmm.... maybe... artyon: 

If you use a crashing opening like say ... gwa/jeurng/lin wan ping ahn choi/sao choi ... you should literally be standing on a person by then... think about lok gwai ma, tau ma or lau ma doing mad, bad things to their lower bodies/joints & balance while you distract/pound/flatten up top with the hands. You footwork should move you into them while you fire away.

Just something to think about...


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## j_m (Apr 1, 2005)

Infrazael said:
			
		

> Mabye, if I can close enough.


Shouldn't this be "when" you get close enough?  

We have a saying that you want to keep your enemy VERY close to you.  Kind of like "keep your friends close but your enemies closer".  Almsot like a black widow spider... you make love to your enemy (touch, move in, wrap/lock) then you destroy them from in close.  That's the CMA way.



jm


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## Infrazael (Apr 1, 2005)

clfsean said:
			
		

> Hmmmm.... maybe... artyon:
> 
> If you use a crashing opening like say ... gwa/jeurng/lin wan ping ahn choi/sao choi ... you should literally be standing on a person by then... think about lok gwai ma, tau ma or lau ma doing mad, bad things to their lower bodies/joints & balance while you distract/pound/flatten up top with the hands. You footwork should move you into them while you fire away.
> 
> Just something to think about...


That's what I do. :flame:


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## Silo-Fu Kung-Fu (Apr 3, 2005)

Obviously those of you that disagree have never done any "Long fist" 
 CLF and Mantis are not long fist styles where as like i said earlyer , Crane and plum flower are.

 And you if you know what your doing you can punch in the same range that your front kicking.


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## Shaolinwind (Apr 3, 2005)

Hanzo04 said:
			
		

> can anyone tell me what shaolin long fist is all about and what makes it unique?


Among the other styles mentioned, Northern Eagle Claw is partially characterized by long armed techniques.


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## 7starmantis (Apr 3, 2005)

Silo-Fu Kung-Fu said:
			
		

> Obviously those of you that disagree have never done any "Long fist"
> CLF and Mantis are not long fist styles where as like i said earlyer , Crane and plum flower are.
> 
> And you if you know what your doing you can punch in the same range that your front kicking.


 Dont be too quick to make assumptions. We all know what happens when you make assumptions, right? :uhyeah:

  In this case you would be wrong.

  7sm


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## j_m (Apr 3, 2005)

Silo-Fu Kung-Fu said:
			
		

> Obviously those of you that disagree have never done any "Long fist"
> CLF and Mantis are not long fist styles where as like I said earlyer , Crane and plum flower are.


Who are referring to here?  Those that disagree with your earlier definintion that "long fist" _usually refers to fighting (punching) at long range_?  It seems those of us that actualy do "long fist" don't consider that the real definition.  And you are certain that CLF is not a southern "long fist" style?  Many even consider tai chi chuan to be "long fist".

There are probably dozens (if not more) of chang quan styles.  Some actually include the term "chang quan" like tai zhu chang quan, jia men chang quan, mei hua chang quan, etc.  But other styles/systems are considered part of the general long fist family as well such as mi tzung quan, fan zi chuan, and even monkey fist & taijiquan.

More info for those that are intersted:

_"[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chinese martial arts has a huge number of impressive fighting styles. Some are quite unique, many are superb. What makes long fist stand out among them, what makes it unique is the balance and even development of its techniques and its versatility in fighting situations._
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Does it emphasize arm or leg techniques? Long fist develops both._[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_How about long-range, midrange, or short-range fighting? Where is its strong point? Not a relevant question: long fist uses all of them._[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Does it specialize in palm strikes? No, long fist uses fist, palm, elbow, shoulder, torso: everything and everywhere._[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_Which method of power-issuing does it employ? Long fist uses all possible ways._[/font]

_[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Does long fist's fighting strategy call for initiating the first strike or waiting for the opponent to attack before responding? Long fist uses all different fighting strategies. And very importantly, the fighting plan must never be pre-designed.[/font]"_


I'd say the obvious thing is that you have no idea what we all know or what we all practice.  



jm

[/font]


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## Dronak (Apr 3, 2005)

FWIW, here is some information on the intro handout we got when we started our classes in "northen Shaolin long fist style kung fu".  (I've always said that seems general to me, but that's about all we were given for a name of the style we learned.)

"The movements of Long-Fist are, as the name states, long.  Long-arm swinging motions and long whirling kicks are common.  Jumps are also a featured movement in Long-Fist. . . . Long-Fist style emphasiz[es] kicks over hand techniques.  Such a long-range system stresses full extension of the limbs so that kicks and punches are extended as far as possible without compromising balance or power.  The Northern Shaolin practicioner generates power from a combination of great speed and large, flowing movemebts, picturing his hands and feet as strong and compact as stones while his arms and legs are ropes.  The limbs remain supple and relaxed during movement and only tighten when fully extended."

Kind of interesting how it seems to say a lot of the stereotypical stuff that we're saying doesn't always hold true.  BTW, do you have a source for that quoted info, j_m?


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## 7starmantis (Apr 3, 2005)

I think making a point of extending your joints to their full extension is an amazing way to get them broken.

7sm


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## j_m (Apr 3, 2005)

Dronak said:
			
		

> Long-Fist style emphasiz[es] kicks over hand techniques.


 
I personally believe this is a fairly common misconception.  Maybe this is what it _looks_ like to the unitiated... but it's hard to say just exactly why this is common belief.  Possibly it stems form the other misconception that northern styles use mostly kicks while southern styles use mostly hands  





			
				Dronak said:
			
		

> BTW, do you have a source for that quoted info, j_m?


It's a quote from Adam Hsu.  I thought it relevent, at least in my case, since that is where my Islamic Long Fist comes from (Hsu learned it from Han Ching Tan whom we have discussed before such as the tan tui video clip I posted up).  I have some experience with Shaolin Long Fist as well.  But like you, I feel that was sort of a very general term for it at the time.




jm


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## clfsean (Apr 3, 2005)

Silo-Fu Kung-Fu said:
			
		

> Obviously those of you that disagree have never done any "Long fist"
> CLF and Mantis are not long fist styles where as like i said earlyer , Crane and plum flower are.
> 
> And you if you know what your doing you can punch in the same range that your front kicking.


Ok... I'll be nice & put it like this. You're misinformed & not correct. Choy Lee Fut is most certainly a southern long fist system as are cousins Hung Ga, Choy Ga, Hung Fut, Fut Ga, Pek Kwar, Tai Tzu, etc.... 

Praying Mantis is also a Long Fist system as well. You may want to review the 18 different styles/systems that were combined to develop the Tang Lang systems & where they've gone & how they've grown. 

Which Crane fist are you talking about? Fukien? Fuzhou? Yong chun? Bak Hok? Hop Ga? Lama Pai? 

I'll have to check with some flower boxers I know & get back to you on the Mei Hua. I'm not 100% sure, but I'll check around.


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## Dronak (Apr 3, 2005)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> I think making a point of extending your joints to their full extension is an amazing way to get them broken.



I'm not sure "fully extended" means "locked out", which I think is the way you're interpreting it.


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## Infrazael (Apr 4, 2005)

Silo-Fu Kung-Fu said:
			
		

> Obviously those of you that disagree have never done any "Long fist"
> CLF and Mantis are not long fist styles where as like i said earlyer , Crane and plum flower are.
> 
> And you if you know what your doing you can punch in the same range that your front kicking.


CLF is a *Southern* Longfist style. We actually have a form called "Hung-Sing Longfist Set"

We never claimed that it was the same in any way to *Northern* Longfist.


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## 47MartialMan (Apr 4, 2005)

The entire point here is that we need to keep in mind that translations/interpretations, can be the basis for much confusion. When we base our ideas on assumptions, we can go off on entirely the wrong tangent, especially if the assumptions we make are incorrect in fact. It comes down to the old adage that a small amount of knowledge is a dangerous thing. 

It doesnt do to become complacent. When we cease to seek answers for ourselves and simply begin to take someone elses word for something, or base opinions and beliefs on fragmented information, we end up deluding ourselves. And we also end up perpetuating errors, and it will be believed by even more people that Long Fist is about range, no different than other translations mis-understood, like Gong Fu, Tai Ji Quan, etc.


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