# Injuries in Martial Arts and Training



## Nobufusa (Oct 31, 2020)

Many years ago, I trained in Judo and sustained a severe shoulder injury after being thrown by my Sensei. I required surgery, and live with two plastic pins somewhere in my shoulder bone or rotator cuff. I love Judo, but I am afraid of ever sparring again or returning to Judo due to my experience. Moreover I saw a short clip of a Japanese adolescent who is in a permanent vegetative state from being thrown so hard in Judo. How do you deal with injuries? Do you come back to the sport or martial art that caused your injuries? I know boxers who needed handed surgery, and I myself have been knocked out during a sparring session in boxing. It seems like everything I love is too dangerous and risky to actually continue training in.


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## _Simon_ (Oct 31, 2020)

Welcome to the forums mate 

I'm very sorry to hear about your injury. Even the most well-meaning and professional instructor can still perform a technique on someone and it ends bad...

I guess it's a tricky thing, as most martial arts inherently carry a risk of some sort. But in alot, there are often ways you can work around it, as long as your training partner and instructor are aware of it.

Whatever place you enquire about, I would always disclose previous injuries and also ask the instructor directly whether you can still safely train in the art without risking reinjuring the shoulder. It may even involve simply avoiding certain movements, or finding ways to work around them.

Plenty of the guys on here have had injuries and conditions, myself included, so hopefully they'll chime in .

I heard a quote recently, something like "Your limitations are where you expand." You truly learn alot when you have an injury, and it can often lead to greater self awareness and also how to treat yourself, train and live in a more healthy way. It's really inspiring seeing stories of people who have the most unimaginably horrific conditions, and to STILL find a way to do what they love.

“If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” — Bruce Lee

But that being said, train smart above all else


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## drop bear (Oct 31, 2020)

Pick your partners, slow down a bit. Try to be controlled about what you do.


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## lklawson (Nov 5, 2020)

Nobufusa said:


> Many years ago, I trained in Judo and sustained a severe shoulder injury after being thrown by my Sensei. I required surgery, and live with two plastic pins somewhere in my shoulder bone or rotator cuff. I love Judo, but I am afraid of ever sparring again or returning to Judo due to my experience. Moreover I saw a short clip of a Japanese adolescent who is in a permanent vegetative state from being thrown so hard in Judo. How do you deal with injuries? Do you come back to the sport or martial art that caused your injuries? I know boxers who needed handed surgery, and I myself have been knocked out during a sparring session in boxing. It seems like everything I love is too dangerous and risky to actually continue training in.


I'm sorry that you were injured.  There are two things I'd like to point out.  First, the TBI injury which you describe is actually very rare.  I suspect that there is a similar percentage of TBI injuries from walking down stairs.  Head injuries suck.  In fact, you mention Boxers and hand fractures, but the larger concern, imo, is Dementia Pugilistica which most link directly to TBI from repeatedly getting punched in the head over a period of time.

Second, while I cannot speak to your injury or your Sensei, it is common for Judo clubs to focus so heavily on the competition (Shiai) that they turn training sessions from Randori into Shiai, where instead of training and learning, the participants feel they have to "win" and go full out.  Many Judoka predicted this as a consequence of Judo being included in the Olympics.  They believed, and it has been born out, that this would encourage Dojos to stop teaching the old methods and focus on Shiai to the exclusion of all else, and it would lead to cumulative injuries.  Judging by the number of old Senseis who now have teach from the side of the tatami because their bodies don't work right any more (particularly knee injuries), I'd have to say it's true.  In fact, Kano warned about the dangers of focusing too much on competition. But the allure of the Olympics, and how it would promote and elevate Judo, was too great.

If you want to rejoin Judo, and I truly hope you do, find a Dojo which does not focus only on competition (avoid College clubs, ime).  There are still some which have light or restricted randori.  Be sure to let the instructors know about your injuries and your concerns.

FWIW, this phenomenon is not restricted to Judo by any stretch.  I have some training buddies who also do BJJ, and they're beat up pretty bad too.  Spinal injuries are becoming more common.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Jeff_Beish (Nov 6, 2020)

Thrown by "sensei."   No, not sensei, thug pretending to be sensei.


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## Nobufusa (Nov 9, 2020)

Well, I hope it was just a training accident, and that he didn't do it on purpose. He is Japanese, but that doesn't mean what you said might not be true, I just tend to think that the Japanese are less likely to disdain their art with such an accusation.


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## Nobufusa (Nov 9, 2020)

Jeff_Beish said:


> Thrown by "sensei."   No, not sensei, thug pretending to be sensei.



Well, I hope it was just a training accident, and that he didn't do it on purpose. He is Japanese, but that doesn't mean what you said might not be true, I just tend to think that the Japanese are less likely to disdain their art with such an accusation.


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## Nobufusa (Nov 9, 2020)

lklawson said:


> I'm sorry that you were injured.  There are two things I'd like to point out.  First, the TBI injury which you describe is actually very rare.  I suspect that there is a similar percentage of TBI injuries from walking down stairs.  Head injuries suck.  In fact, you mention Boxers and hand fractures, but the larger concern, imo, is Dementia Pugilistica which most link directly to TBI from repeatedly getting punched in the head over a period of time.
> 
> Second, while I cannot speak to your injury or your Sensei, it is common for Judo clubs to focus so heavily on the competition (Shiai) that they turn training sessions from Randori into Shiai, where instead of training and learning, the participants feel they have to "win" and go full out.  Many Judoka predicted this as a consequence of Judo being included in the Olympics.  They believed, and it has been born out, that this would encourage Dojos to stop teaching the old methods and focus on Shiai to the exclusion of all else, and it would lead to cumulative injuries.  Judging by the number of old Senseis who now have teach from the side of the tatami because their bodies don't work right any more (particularly knee injuries), I'd have to say it's true.  In fact, Kano warned about the dangers of focusing too much on competition. But the allure of the Olympics, and how it would promote and elevate Judo, was too great.
> 
> ...




I don't think it was a TBI injury, it was a torn Rotator Cuff.


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## BrendanF (Nov 11, 2020)

Nobufusa said:


> .. Moreover I saw a short clip of a Japanese adolescent who is in a permanent vegetative state from being thrown so hard in Judo..



That was a rotator cuff?


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## Nobufusa (Nov 11, 2020)

BrendanF said:


> That was a rotator cuff?



No, my rotator cuff was torn, the comatose adolescent was a story I saw on YouTube, these are two completely separate cases indicated by the key word: "Moreover"


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## Nobufusa (Nov 11, 2020)

lklawson said:


> I'm sorry that you were injured.  There are two things I'd like to point out.  First, the TBI injury which you describe is actually very rare.  I suspect that there is a similar percentage of TBI injuries from walking down stairs.  Head injuries suck.  In fact, you mention Boxers and hand fractures, but the larger concern, imo, is Dementia Pugilistica which most link directly to TBI from repeatedly getting punched in the head over a period of time.
> 
> Second, while I cannot speak to your injury or your Sensei, it is common for Judo clubs to focus so heavily on the competition (Shiai) that they turn training sessions from Randori into Shiai, where instead of training and learning, the participants feel they have to "win" and go full out.  Many Judoka predicted this as a consequence of Judo being included in the Olympics.  They believed, and it has been born out, that this would encourage Dojos to stop teaching the old methods and focus on Shiai to the exclusion of all else, and it would lead to cumulative injuries.  Judging by the number of old Senseis who now have teach from the side of the tatami because their bodies don't work right any more (particularly knee injuries), I'd have to say it's true.  In fact, Kano warned about the dangers of focusing too much on competition. But the allure of the Olympics, and how it would promote and elevate Judo, was too great.
> 
> ...



You mentioned that TBI in Judo is rare, but how rare is a torn rotator cuff like the one I experienced? That is what I am afraid of.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 11, 2020)

Nobufusa said:


> Many years ago, I trained in Judo and sustained a severe shoulder injury after being thrown by my Sensei.


One has responsibility to protect his training partner during throw. That's why the Judo jacket is for. A pulling on the Judo jacket can cancel out a lot of throwing force.

You can train some throws without letting your opponent's body to touch on the ground (like holding a baby). The final throw is just to let the gravity to do the job which is not important for the whole throw training.

If you can make your opponent's body to lean 30 degree to the ground, you can then protect his falling, injury can be prevented.







Some throws can only be trained on a throwing dummy, and should not be trained on a life human being.






The following 2 throws are quite dangerous to train by beginners.


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## BrendanF (Nov 12, 2020)

Nobufusa said:


> No, my rotator cuff was torn, the comatose adolescent was a story I saw on YouTube, these are two completely separate cases indicated by the key word: "Moreover"



Yes, my point was that lklawson was referring to the brain injury, when he discussed brain injury, not your shoulder injury, as you replied.


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