# Combining Taiji and Yiquan Principles. Sam Tam



## 23rdwave

If Sam was doing yiquan he would move his feet and would not let his training partner enter the gates but here he is using yiquan to power his taiji.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Every time when I see a "push" clip like this (I'm allergy to push), I always want to ask the following questions:

- Have you ever seen skill like this ever been used in the boxing ring, or on the wrestling mat?
- The push is neither punch nor throw. What is it?
- Why do you want to push your opponent away? You should keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
- If you grab on your opponent's wrist so your body and his body are connected, can he still push you away?
- In all this kind of demo clip, the student always has very poor balance, why?
- When your opponent's force comes through your arm, if you collapse your arm at your elbow joint, can his force still be able to reach to your upper arm and reach to your body?
- ...

Those are general questions. It's not direct to the person in that clip.


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## 23rdwave

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Every time when I see a clip like this, I always want to ask the following questions:
> 
> - Have you ever seen skill like this ever been used in the boxing ring, or on the wrestling mat?
> - The push is neither punch nor throw. What is it?
> - Why do you want to push your opponent away? You should keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
> - If you grab on your opponent's wrist so your body and his body are connected, can he still push you away?
> - In all this kind of demo clip, the student always look like has very poor balance, why?
> - When your opponent's force comes through your arm, if you collapse your arm at your elbow joint, can his force still be able to reach to your upper arm and reach to your body?
> - ...
> 
> Those are general questions. It's not direct to the person in that clip.



- Boxers and wrestlers don't do this kind of training. Most people young enough to fight don't have the patience to learn this type of skill. And those that are mature enough to grasp it are too old to fight. For example: Lei Tai has an age limit. No one over forty.

- Sam says, "I hit him three times. The first time is when I hit him. The second time is when he hits the wall. The third time is when he hits the ground." You Shuai Jiao guys hit twice. 

- When someone grabs me they become part of me. When I move they move. When his feet leave the floor he may have other things to think about than how strong his wrist grab is. 

- Double weighting.

- When someone pushes on me I let the energy/force fill my back like a sail full of wind. I keep my structure and don't resist. I hit him with my spine not my arms. Or rather I use the spine like rear wheel drive. The arms are my bumper.


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Every time when I see a "push" clip like this (I'm allergy to push), I always want to ask the following questions:
> 
> - Have you ever seen skill like this ever been used in the boxing ring, or on the wrestling mat?
> - The push is neither punch nor throw. What is it?
> - Why do you want to push your opponent away? You should keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
> - If you grab on your opponent's wrist so your body and his body are connected, can he still push you away?
> - In all this kind of demo clip, the student always has very poor balance, why?
> - When your opponent's force comes through your arm, if you collapse your arm at your elbow joint, can his force still be able to reach to your upper arm and reach to your body?
> - ...
> 
> Those are general questions. It's not direct to the person in that clip.



And every time you post a response like this I ask the same question, do you have any idea what push hands, at the level shown, is actually used for?


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## Kung Fu Wang

Xue Sheng said:


> And every time you post a response like this I ask the same question, do you have any idea what push hands, at the level shown, is actually used for?


I don't believe in "push" because when your opponent hold on your wrist, you just can't push him away. What's the usage to train pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your pushing skill to be useless.


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## Xue Sheng

23rdwave said:


> If Sam was doing yiquan he would move his feet and would not let his training partner enter the gates but here he is using yiquan to power his taiji.



Some of it is straight up Yang style taijiquan applicatoins in push hands. As for the rest, t


Kung Fu Wang said:


> I don't believe in "push" because when your opponent hold on your wrist, you just can't push him away. What's the usage to train pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your pushing skill to be useless.



Which tells me you have no idea what push hands it for. That or you never trained it to a higher level. 

Do we really need to go down this taiji road again, You don't like taiji, you make that evidently clear in virtually every post you make on the subject. And then you start commenting on things, that to be honest, I do not think you understand,


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## Kung Fu Wang

Xue Sheng said:


> Which tells me you have no idea what push hands it for. That or you never trained it to a higher level.
> 
> Do we really need to go down this taiji road again, You don't like taiji, you make that evidently clear in virtually every post you make on the subject. And then you start commenting on things, that to be honest, I do not think you understand,


I only train something that's useful.

When I grab on your wrist, you can

- punch my head and knock me down.
- pull my leg and take me down.

You just can't push me away when I grab on your wrist.

You still have not answered my question. What's the usage of your pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your "pushing skill" to be useless?


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I only train something that's useful.
> 
> You still have not answered my question. What's the usage of your pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your "pushing skill" to be useless?



Then, if you actually trained taijiquan, you would already know, you do something else. You seem, you seem to think that all taijiquan has is push hands, which also tells me you do not understand push hands. You seem to think push hands and pushing is all taijiquan has when it comes to fighting. This again says you do not understand it. Taijiquan also has striking, kicking, shuaijiao and qinna, just like any other Chinese martial art. 

You don't think taijiquan is useful because you do not understand it, and/or have not trained it enough, only trained the competition stuff, or you have not trained with the right shifu. And yet, here .


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## Kung Fu Wang

Xue Sheng said:


> You don't think taijiquan is useful because you do not understand it, and/or have not trained it enough, only trained the competition stuff, or you have not trained with the right shifu.


Can you stop personal attack again? It's OK to attack me. It's not OK to attack my Taiji teacher.

Your logic is very funny.

I don't agree with you -> I don't understand Taiji -> My Taiji is bad -> My Taiji teacher is also bad


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Your logic is very funny.
> 
> I don't agree with you -> I don't understand Taiji -> My Taiji is bad -> My Taiji teacher is also bad



Interesting, I answered your question, told you more about taijiquan and you go here....ok

I am glad you found is funny, but you misunderstand, I said any one of those was possibly the reason you don't understand what taijiquan really is, not all of them, or it could be all of them, I have no idea. All I do know is, based on virtually every post you make about taiji you show a prejudice against it and a lack of understanding of it.  And I don't agree with you about just about everything you post about taijiquan. 

As I have said many times before, when we end up here, I do think you are a skilled martial artist in just about every non-taiji post you make, find some of them rather informative and interesting. Which only confuses me more as to why you start commenting on taijiquan when seem to not truly understand what it is, what it has in its arsenal and just plain do not like it

And since I answer your question, why not answer the one I asked you

 "do you have any idea what push hands, at the level shown, is actually used for?"


what about the question you asked that I answered, why no comment there.


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Can you stop personal attack again?



How many times must you retreat to this. This is not a personal attack, I don't know who your teacher was. I am commenting based on my experience with taijiquan and your posts on the subject. You do not seem to have a grasp on what taijiquan is and there must be a reason, I am only suggesting possible reasons.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Xue Sheng said:


> "do you have any idea what push hands, at the level shown, is actually used for?".


In my Chang Taiji system, we have 4 different kind of PH training. We don't use it for competition. We only use it to develop "sensitivity".






In Chang Taiji, we don't push our opponent's away. We throw our opponents down.


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In my Chang Taiji system, we have 4 different kind of PH training. We don't use it for competition. We only use it to develop "sensitivity".



Yang Push hands as it comes from Tung Ying Chieh
>Stationary 1 hand
>Stationary 2 hand
>stick and follow (moving) generally 1 hand, similar to what you were showing but there is no fixed stepping pattern
>3 step (moving)
>4 corner (moving) there is a lock practices in this as well
>There is also a 1 step, but this is quick and attack and response and have done it rarely
>free style with 13 postures applications work and as you advance even qinna, this is where I would end up on the floor when working with my Shifu.

I have some minor Chen push hands training, but I never got past stationary 2 hands in Chen. But there is a lot of qinna and Shuaijiao in Chen too. 

Is push hands for fighting? Yes and no. 

There are fighting applications in it, The best Qinna I have ever come across is my Yang Shifu. I have trained qinna with a lot of folks, one of those Yang Jwing Ming. I can always feel it coming, sometimes I can stop it, sometimes I can't (see Yang Jwing Ming). But with my taiji shifu I never feel it coming. I am all of a sudden locked. His explanation for this is "You lock yourself". It comes from his sensitivity and patients. I am in the right position and he applies very little pressure and I am locked. But If you are going to get in a fight, and all you have is push hands, you will likely lose, push hands for the most part is a tool. However there is a saying in Taijiquan, if you understand the 13 postures, you can fight. And I do agree with that. But that is not push hands, it can be, and is combined with push hands. I am in a a push hands group and there is a lot of joint locking and throwing going on, we do not get into striking. But this is a freestyle push hands group, there are no set patterns here. But we all know it is a tool and there is more to learn. Taijiquan has a lot more than just pushing. But that pushing, if done right, at the right time, will take someones root and knock them off balance (which you could then take the advantage) or it can knock them on the floor. 

Is it for sensitivity and learning to find someone else's center? Yes. But trained properly, it has real world, fighting applications. Even if that applications it in support of something else like kicking, punching, shuaijiao or qinna. 

As for the OP video, some of it I know because it is straight up Yang style. Some of it I would have to experience for myself for me to believe it

This is a demo, from my lineage, most of which I have experinced over the years. This was Tung Hu Ling, oldest son of Tung Ying Chieh, and classmate and friend of my Shifu. The other guy is (a young) Tung Kia Ling oldest son Tung Hu Ying


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## Deleted member 39746

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - Why do you want to push your opponent away? You should keep your friends close but your enemies closer.




Maybe mis understood, but its pretty valid to push or pull someone to off balance them so they attack (at least in theory) in a disadvantaged way.   (in this way can be off balanced)

thats at least the validity in pushing someone away.         Just in case it wasnt covered, or you didnt know, never hurts to reply to that.  

I aint touching the validity of push hands though.   Lest i get dim maked.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Rat said:


> to push or pull someone to off balance.


When I grab on your wrist,

1. You can not push me away.
2. You can pull me into a wrestling game.
3. You can start a striking game.

In all cases, the push game is over. Either the wrestling game will start, or the striking game will start.


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## jobo

Xue Sheng said:


> And every time you post a response like this I ask the same question, do you have any idea what push hands, at the level shown, is actually used for?


well in the vid it appears to be being used to push someone with dyspraxia  about


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## 23rdwave

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I grab on your wrist,
> 
> 1. You can not push me away.
> 2. You can pull me into a wrestling game.
> 3. You can start a striking game.
> 
> In all cases, the push game is over. Either the wrestling game will start, or the striking game will start.



Yiquan (Mind Boxing) is a striking art. It is the art of awareness (mind). We train to have a relaxed/soft/light body that can respond to any attack. We try to be like a buoy in the water. The waves and tides push us down and around but we always pop back up. 

It's not the arms "pushing" it's the whole body advancing forward with the "springy" arms acting like bumpers but allowing the opponent's energy to travel through the relaxed/soft/light arms (bones and tendons doing the lion's share of the structure part because we'd like to have the muscles to be relaxed/soft/light) and filling the spine like a bow. Then I hit their center with my spine and the rest of my mass comes along for the ride so the tip of one finger carries my 200lbs with it (I was 190lbs for 3-4 years but have slipped back to 200lbs). One explanation of sinking the chi is to empty the upper body of tension making it responsive. Without a cima-trained body (not done with forms, applications, etc. but zhan zhuang) it's just a push and if there isn't a significant weight advantage not very effective. Certainly not against a strong ("monster") wrist grab. 

We don't look to push the way you understand it. If I was holding a swiss ball and someone ran into me they would presumably bounce off. The body becomes similar to the ball but it has arms to strike, adhere, redirect and legs to step and step on feet and ankles, and kick ankles, shins and knees, and use the knee to attack knees and thighs. And so on. 

The body is "pushy". We're not pushing anyone. They're pushing themselves away. Is the swiss ball pushing them?

If someone grabs my wrist with a monster grip and pulls me towards them I will go along for the ride and with a relaxed/soft/light body that has structure (bones and tendons) and filled with cima energy (which is what the mind is focused on and not the wrist grab) I will crash into them and "express" the "energy" through my fingertips. 

If someone grabs my wrist with a monster grip and advances towards me I will go along with that, too, but I will point where I want them to go and allow the "energy" to express itself in that direction. When someone grabs me they become part of me. When I move they move.


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## Gweilo

Xue Sheng said:


> But with my taiji shifu I never feel it coming. I am all of a sudden locked. His explanation for this is "You lock yourself". It comes from his sensitivity and patients. I am in the right position and he applies very little pressure and I am locked


I don't know a lot about Chinese arts, but the above quote interested me, in the process in the video, are you looking for the tension in your opponent? , the teacher seemed to react by pushing his opponent at a point of tension, and at a 45 degree angle, I can see the benefit of reaction training and the freedom of movement, also the benefit of staying in contact, but was just wondering about seeking tension in your opponent.


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## Kung Fu Wang

23rdwave said:


> If someone grabs my wrist with a monster grip and pulls me towards them I will go along for the ride and with a relaxed/soft/light body that has structure (bones and tendons) and filled with cima energy (which is what the mind is focused on and not the wrist grab) I will crash into them and "express" the "energy" through my fingertips.


What if when you try to "crash" into your opponent, suddenly, he is not there any more?

Here is an example:

- A drags B.
- B yields into A, and tries to crash into A.
- A spins his body, moves himself out of B's moving path, and lead B into the emptiness.

Since B doesn't know when A will spins his body, A has advantage over B.


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## 23rdwave

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What if when you try to "crash" into your opponent, suddenly, he is not there any more?
> 
> Here is an example:
> 
> - A drags B.
> - B yields into A, and tries to crash into A.
> - A spins his body, moves himself out of B's moving path, and lead B into the emptiness.
> 
> Since B doesn't know when A will spins his body, A has advantage over B.



I wouldn't try to crash into him unless that's where he pulls me. I want my body to respond to my opponent's pressure rather than my mind trying to do anything other than focus on my body state. I don't mind the emptiness. It reminds of me of my first marriage.


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## Flying Crane

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What if when you try to "crash" into your opponent, suddenly, he is not there any more?
> 
> Here is an example:
> 
> - A drags B.
> - B yields into A, and tries to crash into A.
> - A spins his body, moves himself out of B's moving path, and lead B into the emptiness.
> 
> Since B doesn't know when A will spins his body, A has advantage over B.


What if what if what if.  There is always a what if.  When you understand the method, you have a way to deal with the what if’s.  Dwelling on a what if is pointless.


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## Kung Fu Wang

Flying Crane said:


> What if what if what if.  There is always a what if.  When you understand the method, you have a way to deal with the what if’s.  Dwelling on a what if is pointless.


Without "what if", there won't be any computer program. 

Without "what if", there won't be any MA tree.


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## Flying Crane

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Without "what if", there won't be any computer program.
> 
> Without "what if", there won't be any MA tree.


There are always what ifs.  I said that.
You cannot pre-plan then in the way you think you want to.


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## Xue Sheng

Gweilo said:


> I don't know a lot about Chinese arts, but the above quote interested me, in the process in the video, are you looking for the tension in your opponent? , the teacher seemed to react by pushing his opponent at a point of tension, and at a 45 degree angle, I can see the benefit of reaction training and the freedom of movement, also the benefit of staying in contact, but was just wondering about seeking tension in your opponent.



Your actually looking for a place of instability and their center of balance. This is why I feel that I need t have some of what is being done in in the video demonstrated on me. I am not passing judgement, I just see a couple things that do not add up. 

However, tension can be a place of instability, especially during an attack by the opponent.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I don't believe in "push" because when your opponent hold on your wrist, you just can't push him away. What's the usage to train pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your pushing skill to be useless.


That something isn't applicable in some situations doesn't make it useless. A punch doesn't work from outside punching range, or if he gets behind you. But we train them, anyway.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I only train something that's useful.
> 
> When I grab on your wrist, you can
> 
> - punch my head and knock me down.
> - pull my leg and take me down.
> 
> You just can't push me away when I grab on your wrist.
> 
> You still have not answered my question. What's the usage of your pushing skill if your opponent's "monster grip" can make your "pushing skill" to be useless?


Most throws have a pushing component.


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## Xue Sheng

gpseymour said:


> Most throws have a pushing component.



You should see Tim Cartmell's approach to Sun Style Taijiquan applications. A whole lot of pushing and throwing going. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, every applications, someone ends up getting thrown on the ground


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## Gerry Seymour

Xue Sheng said:


> Yang Push hands as it comes from Tung Ying Chieh
> >Stationary 1 hand
> >Stationary 2 hand
> >stick and follow (moving) generally 1 hand, similar to what you were showing but there is no fixed stepping pattern
> >3 step (moving)
> >4 corner (moving) there is a lock practices in this as well
> >There is also a 1 step, but this is quick and attack and response and have done it rarely
> >free style with 13 postures applications work and as you advance even qinna, this is where I would end up on the floor when working with my Shifu.
> 
> I have some minor Chen push hands training, but I never got past stationary 2 hands in Chen. But there is a lot of qinna and Shuaijiao in Chen too.
> 
> Is push hands for fighting? Yes and no.
> 
> There are fighting applications in it, The best Qinna I have ever come across is my Yang Shifu. I have trained qinna with a lot of folks, one of those Yang Jwing Ming. I can always feel it coming, sometimes I can stop it, sometimes I can't (see Yang Jwing Ming). But with my taiji shifu I never feel it coming. I am all of a sudden locked. His explanation for this is "You lock yourself". It comes from his sensitivity and patients. I am in the right position and he applies very little pressure and I am locked. But If you are going to get in a fight, and all you have is push hands, you will likely lose, push hands for the most part is a tool. However there is a saying in Taijiquan, if you understand the 13 postures, you can fight. And I do agree with that. But that is not push hands, it can be, and is combined with push hands. I am in a a push hands group and there is a lot of joint locking and throwing going on, we do not get into striking. But this is a freestyle push hands group, there are no set patterns here. But we all know it is a tool and there is more to learn. Taijiquan has a lot more than just pushing. But that pushing, if done right, at the right time, will take someones root and knock them off balance (which you could then take the advantage) or it can knock them on the floor.
> 
> Is it for sensitivity and learning to find someone else's center? Yes. But trained properly, it has real world, fighting applications. Even if that applications it in support of something else like kicking, punching, shuaijiao or qinna.
> 
> As for the OP video, some of it I know because it is straight up Yang style. Some of it I would have to experience for myself for me to believe it
> 
> This is a demo, from my lineage, most of which I have experinced over the years. This was Tung Hu Ling, oldest son of Tung Ying Chieh, and classmate and friend of my Shifu. The other guy is (a young) Tung Kia Ling oldest son Tung Hu Ying


When you talk about PH, it sounds like a more robust version of the PH drills I've used in Aikido training. And it has the same base purposes (sensitivity, learning to loosen, recognizing the opportunity, etc.), and when done properly translates to actual application.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I grab on your wrist,
> 
> 1. You can not push me away.
> 2. You can pull me into a wrestling game.
> 3. You can start a striking game.
> 
> In all cases, the push game is over. Either the wrestling game will start, or the striking game will start.


I can push you off-balance. In fact, that's easier when we're attached than when we're not.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What if when you try to "crash" into your opponent, suddenly, he is not there any more?
> 
> Here is an example:
> 
> - A drags B.
> - B yields into A, and tries to crash into A.
> - A spins his body, moves himself out of B's moving path, and lead B into the emptiness.
> 
> Since B doesn't know when A will spins his body, A has advantage over B.


And what happens if when you go for a single-leg, the leg moves? There are counters to everything. You're being absolutist.


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## Kung Fu Wang

gpseymour said:


> I can push you off-balance. In fact, that's easier when we're attached than when we're not.


If I have grip on you, your balance will become my balance, also I can drag you down with me.


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## Kung Fu Wang

gpseymour said:


> And what happens if when you go for a single-leg, the leg moves? There are counters to everything. You're being absolutist.


This is why it's a bad idea to use 2 hands to grab that leg. If you only use one hand while use the other hand to grab his upper body, when he steps back, you can pull him downward.


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## Xue Sheng

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If I have grip on you, your balance will become my balance, also I can drag you down with me.



Been there, it was rather unpleasant for the guy that pulled me down when I fell on top of him. But you do have a point, that is why there are other things you need to do


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## 23rdwave

23rdwave said:


> - When someone grabs me they become part of me. When I move they move.





Kung Fu Wang said:


> If I have grip on you, your balance will become my balance, also I can drag you down with me.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If I have grip on you, your balance will become my balance, also I can drag you down with me.


Not always. And sometimes, that's a better outcome (if I can end the throw in a control position on the ground).

The part I'd disagree with is that someone who has a grip on you always makes your balance theirs. For a good grappler, that should be the aim, but it isn't always successful. Judo players get thrown while grabbing, kind of a lot. Not always do they manage to pull the thrower with them.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is why it's a bad idea to use 2 hands to grab that leg. If you only use one hand while use the other hand to grab his upper body, when he steps back, you can pull him downward.


You're making my point here, John. You're talking about what to do if that leg moves. The same adaptations are true of other techniques, as well - likely including those in Taiji. Just as the single-leg isn't useless just because a leg could move...


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## Buka




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## Kung Fu Wang

gpseymour said:


> You're making my point here, John. You're talking about what to do if that leg moves. The same adaptations are true of other techniques, as well - likely including those in Taiji. Just as the single-leg isn't useless just because a leg could move...


This discussion starts from whether "what if" is needed. IMO, without "what if", there won't be any discussion. 

You punch me. I'm down. End of discussion.


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## Gerry Seymour

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This discussion starts from whether "what if" is needed. IMO, without "what if", there won't be any discussion.
> 
> You punch me. I'm down. End of discussion.


Nobody has said "what if" isn't needed. Just that a "what if" doesn't invalidate anything, in and of itself.


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## VPT

I used to like Yiquan. Then I learned that they cannot fight anymore. I was sad.

I believed that it too has succumbed to an excess of theory of t3h iNtErNaLZ while losing the profound study of violence and hurt in the same way how it has happened in most of the IMA scene.


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## Xue Sheng

VPT said:


> I used to like Yiquan. Then I learned that they cannot fight anymore. I was sad.
> 
> I believed that it too has succumbed to an excess of theory of t3h iNtErNaLZ while losing the profound study of violence and hurt in the same way how it has happened in most of the IMA scene.



Train Yiquan with Yao in Beijing, they still spar as far as I know


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## zzj

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If I have grip on you, your balance will become my balance, also I can drag you down with me.



Tried grabbing onto a taiji master's wrist/forearm during a seminar, once I gripped him my balance became his, he could move me around and I couldn't even let go if I wanted to.


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## Kung Fu Wang

zzj said:


> Tried grabbing onto a taiji master's wrist/forearm during a seminar, once I gripped him my balance became his, he could move me around and I couldn't even let go if I wanted to.


- You grab your opponent.
- He moves you around.
- You cannot even let go your grip.

It's very difficult for me to understand this can really happen. To let go your grip, all you need to do is to "open your palm". What did he do that could prevent you from "opening your palm"?


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## zzj

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - You grab your opponent.
> - He moves you around.
> - You cannot even let go your grip.
> 
> It's very difficult for me to understand this can really happen. To let go your grip, all you need to do is to "open your palm". What did he do that could prevent you from "opening your palm"?








It's this. They do not demonstrate with grips, but it works the same as long as there is contact.

Based on my personal experience, my balance is subtly affected by the master such that at every instant I'm at the verge of losing equilibrium and going where I do not want to. I cannot just open my palm as my body feels like it would lose all balance if I let go. The effect is quite miraculous and not common even among the 'masters' I have met so far.


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## Kung Fu Wang

zzj said:


> I cannot just open my palm as my body feels like it would lose all balance if I let go.


This is the part that I don't understand. When you grab on your opponent, you must have a purpose. Most of the time, your purpose is to "guide" your opponent's arm away from your entering path. In order words, you may just grab on him for 1/4 second. You then let go your grip and do your thing.

How can your opponent have opportunity to react (within that 1/4 second) before you can release your grip and attack him?

Here is an example.


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## zzj

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is the part that I don't understand. When you grab on your opponent, you must have a purpose. Most of the time, your purpose is to "guide" your opponent's arm away from your entering path. In order words, you may just grab on him for 1/4 second. You then let go your grip and do your thing.
> 
> How can your opponent have opportunity to react (within that 1/4 second) before you can release your grip and attack him?
> 
> Here is an example.



1/4 second is probably enough for him to apply the ‘sticking’ since he does this to incoming jabs too.

Basically once there is contact you are ‘captured’ balance wise.

Another example:


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## 23rdwave

VPT said:


> I used to like Yiquan. Then I learned that they cannot fight anymore. I was sad.
> 
> I believed that it too has succumbed to an excess of theory of t3h iNtErNaLZ while losing the profound study of violence and hurt in the same way how it has happened in most of the IMA scene.



There is yiquan (or i-chuan) standing meditation and then there is the martial art.


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## mograph

zzj said:


>


Shame on that teacher. Shame. 
He described the losing technique as "trying to stick to your opponent" and the winning technique as "making sure that our partner is stuck to us."
However, our eyes tell us that he's doing something very specific and different (e.g. being _inside_ the partner's upper gate), but he doesn't give us a _hint_ as to what is different, instead relying on a metaphor that isn't very useful as a training tool.

Still, it's a short video meant to drive students to his site, so, fine.


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