# Tips For First Time Gun Buyers



## kristian roger (Oct 23, 2020)

Initially, you need to what Guns are used for. They help individuals to protect themselves from any impending danger. Firearms are employed for several purposes. Some people tend to use it for personal protection and hunting. At the same time, others need weapons to indulge in competitive shooting.

First time Gun Buyers have to figure out the purpose. After that, they need to get in touch with the best gun builders and decide whether to buy or create the rifle. Our choice for you is to make the weapon all by yourself because it's cheaper than acquiring a whole new weapon.

Get a weapon that is fun to shoot. First time Gun Buyers have to note other requirements as well. First of all, you've to approach a nearby gun store and then inquire about the different weapons on sale.


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## drop bear (Oct 23, 2020)

Make your own weapon as a first time gun buyer?


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 23, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Make your own weapon as a first time gun buyer?



Yeah. I wondered about that too. You could also perform your own appendectomy on your dining room table.


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## hoshin1600 (Oct 24, 2020)

i fail to see the point in that post,, it wasnt helpful nor was it a question...although it was "questionable"


kristian roger said:


> Initially, you need to what Guns are used for.





kristian roger said:


> First time Gun Buyers have to figure out the purpose.



really?  gee wiiz i could never figure that one out,, and all this time i was using it to chop wood.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> really?  gee wiiz i could never figure that one out,, and all this time i was using it to chop wood.



It's maybe not the most efficient method, but it does look like fun...


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## drop bear (Oct 24, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Yeah. I wondered about that too. You could also perform your own appendectomy on your dining room table.



I shoot a lot of toy guns. And the first instinct for new people is to modify them. 

And then they don't shoot any more.


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## drop bear (Oct 24, 2020)

My suggestion is get the gun everyone else has. 

That way everyone else has parts, everyone else knows how to shoot the thing, bullets are easier to get and everyone can fix them when they break.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


> I shoot a lot of toy guns. And the first instinct for new people is to modify them.
> 
> And then they don't shoot any more.



I shoot a lot of real guns. Happily, most new gun owners either don't have that instinct or resist it. 
Although to be honest, while something like a 1911 requires real knowledge and some skill to modify, something like a Glock is pretty much plug and play.


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## drop bear (Oct 24, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> I shoot a lot of real guns. Happily, most new gun owners either don't have that instinct or resist it.
> Although to be honest, while something like a 1911 requires real knowledge and some skill to modify, something like a Glock is pretty much plug and play.



Every cop here has one for that reason.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Every cop here has one for that reason.



Is that a good thing?


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 24, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Is that a good thing?



Why not? They're simple, inexpensive, incredibly reliable and durable, easy to fix and available in anything from a pocket pistol holding 7 rounds to a duty size holding 18 rounds. The officers could share magazines if needed. Or stick the 17 round magazine in the sub-compact model. 
The only real downsides to a Glock, from my perspective, are the sights and the trigger. Both of which can be replaced in about 15 minutes. Total, not each.


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## CB Jones (Oct 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Every cop here has one for that reason.



Incorrect.

Glock is the leading gun in L.E. because of their finish, cost, and reliability.


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## Oni_Kadaki (Oct 25, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Glock is the leading gun in L.E. because of their finish, cost, and reliability.



I'm not the single biggest fan of Glock... My personal favorite striker-fired is the HK VP9. However, there's no denying that most cool-guy US military units that have a choice in what they carry (e.g. SEALs, Special Forces) choose to carry Glocks. Hell, Larry Vickers, a former top-tier special operator, is a big fan of the Glock as a combat pistol.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 25, 2020)

I love my 1911, but I finally updated myself to HK45 , the 1911 of the 21 century. Excellent safety features, decocker for condition 2. I can pull hammer back for for single action. The list is long as to why I think the HK45 Is better than a Glock. You fine tune it better than the Glock.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 25, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> I love my 1911, but I finally updated myself to HK45 , the 1911 of the 21 century. Excellent safety features, decocker for condition 2. I can pull hammer back for for single action. The list is long as to why I think the HK45 Is better than a Glock. You fine tune it better than the Glock.



What do you mean by fine tuning?


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## Buka (Oct 26, 2020)

"First time gun buyer" is a scary phrase. As it was when I purchased mine and maybe when you purchased yours.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 26, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> What do you mean by fine tuning?



A little Homing of the parts. The single action is good, but I can make it a little better.
The double action is not good. The Beretta or Glock has much better double action.
I mostly shoot Single action. 
The only time I would use double is if someone was very close and had no time to pull the hammer back.
Accuracy does not matter, if they are that close.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 26, 2020)

The best double action out of the box is a Colt Python. They were homed at the factory and can not be improved.
Smith's and other Colts revolvers can be improve to be as good as a Python.
Probably Rugers and others came be homed to an excellent level by good gun smith.
I have only worked on Smith's and Colts.
I have not fire the Smith''s that are factory tune, but I would imagine they are good as a Python.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 26, 2020)

IMO the best first gun should be a high quality 357 revolver. They should shoot 38 special ammo.
Why 357 heavier gun less recoil and later you may wish to step up to 357.
Why a revolver, they are simple to use. no wondering is the safety on or off, no wondering as to is it loaded, no wondering is there a bullet in the chamber. no jams from bad ammo. If you can not hit someone with 6 four more is not going to help.
The heavy double action trigger helps you make sure you want to pull the trigger.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 26, 2020)

Guns are dangerous, we can not let our guard down.  
Boy, 3, dies at his birthday celebration after accidentally shooting himself with family member's gun


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 27, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> A little Homing of the parts. The single action is good, but I can make it a little better.
> The double action is not good. The Beretta or Glock has much better double action.
> I mostly shoot Single action.
> The only time I would use double is if someone was very close and had no time to pull the hammer back.
> Accuracy does not matter, if they are that close.



OK, I guess the part I'm wondering about is that you can fine tune them "better" than the Glock.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 27, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> OK, I guess the part I'm wondering about is that you can fine tune them "better" than the Glock.



Your right I can *not* fine tune the HK45 *double action* better than a Glock *double action* period.
Having said that the single action of a HK45 is better than a Glock action.

The Glock Larry Vickers owns has been gunsmith by people who really know what they are doing.
Maybe if a gunsmith Larry Vickers knows, worked on your Glock it might be as good as a single action HK45, *I don't know.*
I will never get the chance to fire one Larry Vickers Glocks.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 27, 2020)

Back when police officers carried revolvers, I read an article about effective hollow points using actual fire fights.
It slanted towards 45, but I came to a conclusion unrelated to their premise. 

A 22 year old bad guy wearing a heavy coat with a 9mm semi auto pistol with hollow points.
A 23 year old officer with 14 months experience with a 357 with hollow points.
A 38 year old officer with 16 years experience with a 38 special with lead bullets

The 22 year old and the 23 year old started shooting without cover.
The 22 year old shot 9 times hitting the 23 year old once in the shoulder.
Because the bullet hit bone the hollow expanded and caused massive damage to his shoulder. 

The 23 year old hit the 22 year old twice firing 6 shots, but because of the heavy coat and not hitting bone the hollow point had no expansion. 

The 38 year old took cover and from kneeling position fired twice hitting center mass. 
The bullet hit bones in his chest and had massive expansion. It was determined either bullet would have killed him.

My takeaway is to get to cover if possible, *accuracy* is more important than* fire power* or *more rounds.*

IMO standing in the open trading rounds it is hard to be accurate. 
I don’t think they were aiming, I think they were just pointing in the direction of each other and firing as many times as possible.

Now I read police reports of officers emptying their mags and hitting maybe once.
With such uncontrolled fire, I worry about the innocent bystanders.


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## lklawson (Oct 28, 2020)

hoshin1600 said:


> kristian roger said:
> 
> 
> > First time Gun Buyers have to figure out the purpose.
> ...


Actually, this is standard advice and is part of any basic training from the NRA to the NSSF.  But the OP did such a poor job of describing it that it was misconstrued.

"Figure out the purpose" doesn't mean "expel chunks of lead at high velocity."  It mean, "do you intend to use it for home defense, concealed carry, open carry, sport shooting, 3 gun, small game hunting, large game hunting, long range shooting, bullseye target shooting, etc.?"

A handgun intended for big game hunting is going to be very different from one intended for rimfire bullseye competition.  And they're both going to be different from a rifle intended for Long Range Bench Rest shooting.

I am equally perplexed at what the OP was trying to accomplish.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Oct 28, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> IMO the best first gun should be a high quality 357 revolver. They should shoot 38 special ammo.
> Why 357 heavier gun less recoil and later you may wish to step up to 357.
> Why a revolver, they are simple to use. no wondering is the safety on or off, no wondering as to is it loaded, no wondering is there a bullet in the chamber. no jams from bad ammo. If you can not hit someone with 6 four more is not going to help.
> The heavy double action trigger helps you make sure you want to pull the trigger.


Unless your goal is to hunt rabbits.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Oct 28, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Back when police officers carried revolvers, I read an article about effective hollow points using actual fire fights.


That would be before the 1986 Miami Dade shootout and precedes a lot of advances in ammunition technology.  Almost nothing that it would tell you about the performance of "hollow point" bullets is accurate any longer.  It's a little like comparing a 1986 Ford Mustang to a modern Mustang.  The new ones have better performance, better torque, better acceleration, better fuel efficiency, better handling, and better passenger safety mechanisms.  The technology has improved and I certainly wouldn't use an article comparing 1986 cars when choosing a 2021 model car.



> My takeaway is to get to cover if possible, *accuracy* is more important than* fire power* or *more rounds.*


With most common handgun cartridges that is still true.



> IMO standing in the open trading rounds it is hard to be accurate.


Quite the opposite.  The best accuracy is had when standing still and focusing on the front sight.  If the other guy is doing the same, you're both likely to be eating rounds.  OTOH, moving while shooting makes being accurate much more difficult but also makes it much more difficult for the other guy to hit you.



> I don’t think they were aiming, I think they were just pointing in the direction of each other and firing as many times as possible.


That is almost always true of untrained or poorly trained shooters.



> Now I read police reports of officers emptying their mags and hitting maybe once.
> With such uncontrolled fire, I worry about the innocent bystanders.


What reports?  The reports I see indicate that accuracy and "hit rate" has been improving among LEO.  What little information is available strongly implies that armed civilian non-LEO (i.e.: "Concealed Carry Licenses") have an even higher hit rate.  LAPD seems to be among the most "accurate" of LEO agencies with a current hit rate of between 48% and 54% depending on which year you're looking at.  And that's been improving.  NYC seems to have the worst track record among big city agencies with a low point of only around 35% hit rate in 2006 (ims), but they've improved that over time and I think are closing in on the LAPD hit rate.  For non-LEO civilian hit rates, the data is much harder to come by but it looks like the hit rate may be anywhere from 60% and up.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Oct 28, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Is that a good thing?


Yes.  Glocks are exceptionally reliable.  When introduced to market, they were much more reliable, out of the box, then when compared to a stock 1911 right out of the box.  Most of the old 1911 shooters tell me that the first thing they'd do to a brand new 1911 is take it to a smith to fix so it'd be reliable or buy a bunch of parts and try do to the job themselves.  Didn't have to do that with the Glocks.  I still remember when they were being introduced.  The "blued steel" crowd called them "Tupperware Guns."  Some still do.

Glocks are ugly but they work reliably with almost any brand ammunition you choose and even when they aren't well maintained or cared for particularly well.  

When Glock was introduced to the U.S. market in 1988 (my first year of college), even then the G17 would reliably function with pretty much any 9mm ammo.  Couldn't say that of a right-out-of-the-box 1911, and especially if that was a 9mm chambered 1911.

That said, pretty much any handgun manufactured in the last 10 years is likely going to be pretty reliable.  The design and manufacturing technology has dramatically improved.  Almost nothing needs to be "tuned" to be a reliable gun and a decent shooter.

So, yeah, I think cops carrying Glocks is, if not a good think, at least isn't a bad thing.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Bruce7 (Oct 28, 2020)

lklawson said:


> That would be before the 1986 Miami Dade shootout and precedes a lot of advances in ammunition technology.  Almost nothing that it would tell you about the performance of "hollow point" bullets is accurate any longer.  It's a little like comparing a 1986 Ford Mustang to a modern Mustang.  The new ones have better performance, better torque, better acceleration, better fuel efficiency, better handling, and better passenger safety mechanisms.  The technology has improved and I certainly wouldn't use an article comparing 1986 cars when choosing a 2021 model car.
> 
> With most common handgun cartridges that is still true.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you are saying. Make good points.

In the Breonna Taylor shooting all 3 officers emptied their mags. 
They shot the man with the gun once in the leg. 
Shot unarmed women eight times and missed over 20 times. 
I do not call that good control. 
One hit over 30 shots. I do not believe the shots in the women should be counted as hits.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 28, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> I agree with most of what you are saying. Make good points.
> 
> In the Breonna Taylor shooting all 3 officers emptied their mags.
> They shot the man with the gun once in the leg.
> ...



That's not surprising. First thing that happens in a situation like this is a massive adrenaline dump. And with that, your fine motor control goes out the window. Across the board, police, military, whatever, 3 out of 4 shots will miss completely. And it takes, on average, 3 hits to kill the target. Pinpoint accuracy in a gunfight is a myth.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 28, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's not surprising. First thing that happens in a situation like this is a massive adrenaline dump. And with that, your fine motor control goes out the window. Across the board, police, military, whatever, 3 out of 4 shots will miss completely. And it takes, on average, 3 hits to kill the target. Pinpoint accuracy in a gunfight is a myth.



Good point. IMO when you are shot at most people just point and just keep pulling the trigger.
Only when the other man is not shooting is the person aiming, like in an ambush for example.


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## Dirty Dog (Oct 28, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Good point. IMO when you are shot at most people just point and just keep pulling the trigger.
> Only when the other man is not shooting is the person aiming, like in an ambush for example.



Pretty much. I don't think most people will just empty a mag non-stop, but even if they're trying to aim, without fine muscle control it's more of an 'over thataway' thing.


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## lklawson (Oct 29, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> In the Breonna Taylor shooting all 3 officers emptied their mags.


I don't think that's right.  The police were carrying .40S&W cal weapons.  The official authorized duty weapons in .40S&W for their department is Glock 22, 23, and 35, at respective magazine capacities of 15+1, 13+1, and 15+1.  There were 32 rounds fired by police, 6 from Mattingly, 10 from Hankison, and 16 from Cosgrove, in two "flurries" of fire, separated by over a minute.  So, while it's likely that Cosgrove did a mag dump, it doesn't look like Mattingly or Hankison did.

While there's a lot that still seems "not right" about this event, much of what seems to have been reported at first is either inaccurate or applied out of context, including the mag dump reporting.

That specific example aside, I agree that it is common for untrained or poorly trained people in adrenal dump to mag dump.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Oct 29, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's not surprising. First thing that happens in a situation like this is a massive adrenaline dump. And with that, your fine motor control goes out the window. Across the board, police, military, whatever, 3 out of 4 shots will miss completely. And it takes, on average, 3 hits to kill the target. Pinpoint accuracy in a gunfight is a myth.


I agree but with caveats.  We've found that the more training and practice a person has, the greater their hit rate and control.  There have been a few recent events with high degrees of control and very high hit rates.

The reason that people panic under stress and mag dump, the reason that people under stress can't hit shiz, is the same reason why people who get into a fight, tie up, and drag to the ground then go spastic monkey, flailing like an electrocuted badger in a washing machine: They don't actually have training and have never "stress tested" what little skills they have.  Yes, this also applies to many cops who often have little time, money for, and often interest in firearms training and equally often only (barely) make the qualifier when required (annually, bi-annually, whatever).

People are inaccurate and mag dump because they aren't trained and aren't training with stress.  ...just like when you punch the white belt in the nose for the first time.  

And it only gets worse when you add in movement.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Oni_Kadaki (Oct 29, 2020)

On the point of combat accuracy and firing under stress, it is correct that many cops will not be able to hit their target consistently under stress because, frankly, at many academies, firearms training is just a small part of the many things a cop needs to know, and so they only get a few weeks to learn everything from fundamentals of safety and marksmanship to combat tactics. The same applies to many career fields in the military, especially support jobs where combat training is an afterthought.

However, the idea that NOBODY is capable of control and precision in combat is just wrong... I promise you, most special tactics guys are going to be VERY proficient with their weapons. Now, I will caveat that by saying that sometimes precision must sacrificed for speed... Anyone who has competed in USPSA knows that sometimes you just don't have time to line up the perfect shot, and the same certainly applies in combat. Still, that doesn't mean that shooting accurately under stress is impossible.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 29, 2020)

lklawson said:


> I don't think that's right.  The police were carrying .40S&W cal weapons.  The official authorized duty weapons in .40S&W for their department is Glock 22, 23, and 35, at respective magazine capacities of 15+1, 13+1, and 15+1.  There were 32 rounds fired by police, 6 from Mattingly, 10 from Hankison, and 16 from Cosgrove, in two "flurries" of fire, separated by over a minute.  So, while it's likely that Cosgrove did a mag dump, it doesn't look like Mattingly or Hankison did.
> 
> While there's a lot that still seems "not right" about this event, much of what seems to have been reported at first is either inaccurate or applied out of context, including the mag dump reporting.
> 
> ...


Thanks for correction, but still that 32 rounds one hit in the leg.


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## Oni_Kadaki (Oct 29, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Thanks for correction, but still that 32 rounds one hit in the leg.



That's why I am strongly against the current movement to defund the police... the average (i.e. not SWAT) cop already doesn't have enough firearms/combat training unless they hit the dojo and range on their own time. Cutting the budget is just going to make the situation worse, and make tragedies like this one more likely.


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## lklawson (Oct 30, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Thanks for correction, but still that 32 rounds one hit in the leg.


With one idiot shooting blindly through a wall, apparently.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Steve (Oct 30, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> My takeaway is to get to cover if possible, *accuracy* is more important than* fire power* or *more rounds.*
> 
> IMO standing in the open trading rounds it is hard to be accurate.
> I don’t think they were aiming, I think they were just pointing in the direction of each other and firing as many times as possible.
> ...


Statistically, the NYPD cops miss what they're aiming at somewhere between 80% and 90% of the time (closer to 80% when they're not being fired upon).  The 2006 study that @lklawson mentions has been updated a few times, and as I recall, training didn't seem to be making much of a difference.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that they're getting more accurate, and am interested in seeing the LAPD study mentioned.


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## Steve (Oct 30, 2020)

PolitiFact - Do more than 7 in 10 police bullets miss their mark, as this gun control advocate said?

Is this what you're referring to, @lklawson ?


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## lklawson (Oct 30, 2020)

Steve said:


> PolitiFact - Do more than 7 in 10 police bullets miss their mark, as this gun control advocate said?
> 
> Is this what you're referring to, @lklawson ?


No.  But it might reference one of the studies.


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## Steve (Oct 30, 2020)

lklawson said:


> No.  But it might reference one of the studies.


I think it might.  It references the NYPD Rand study from 2008, and also the statistics for the LAPD.


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## Bruce7 (Oct 31, 2020)

The Breonna Taylor thing does not make sense to me.
I am only guessing trying to make sense of what happened
The Vice Detectives got an informant so they could get a warrant.
They wanted a no knock warrant so the drugs don’t go down the toilet.
Something as dangerous as a drug bust, I would hope was all planned out.

Questions
Why was swat not there or at least police back up?
I would think that would be police policy for the protection of the police and the public. 

Why did they not use flash bangs?
Stun them to make them easier to handle.

Why be so secretive about the drug bust?
If their superuser knew about the bust wouldn't he at least require back up.

Why were there no other police officers there to witness the money or the drugs?


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## Bruce7 (Oct 31, 2020)

New 2020 Colt Python $1500 piece of junk. Colt must have let their good gunsmith go. I feel really bad, I had bragged so much about my Python to my friend.
He had to send his 2020 Python back to the factory. I will never buy a new Colt. I guess factory tune Smith is the way to go.


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## Bruce7 (Nov 5, 2020)

I hate Glocks, but this guy knows what he is taking about. He recommends Glocks as your first gun, IMO he is the best at giving truthful useful information about guns. 
He has many useful videos for new owners.


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## Shootinglady123 (Jun 10, 2021)

My tip is to find a good holster for your new gun to make it safe. 

Edited by moderator: Removed link.


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