# Wilderness Survival: Mining & Forging



## Zumorito

I'm pursuing the Japanese warrior arts because I seek to become invincible. It's not because I want to fight or feel like a tough guy. I seek it because I want freedom. One thing which will help me on my path towards total self-sufficiency, are the elements of Metal. 

Gold, silver, copper, bronze, iron, etc. I want to learn not only how to obtain metals from Nature itself, but I also want to find out how to do it using nothing but stone tools, at least at first, until I can use the harvested metals to forge my own metal mining-tools instead of using stone tools. 

Stone tools however will be all I could reasonably use in the beginning though, because I refuse to buy pre-made tools that were manufactured by somebody else, because then, in a way, that company would be able to say "I helped make Zumorito a free man." and I just can't allow that on my quest; I have to attain my own metal with my own hands using my own tools, and then I have to forge the new tools myself; the only thing I can receive from others, is Knowledge, as I have no other choice but to learn new things from sources outside of myself; there needs to be input for neurons to connect in my brain, and I can't use my own brain's output as the input because...well, that's basically as useless as breathing your own air over and over, it might work for a while, but you're not making any more new oxygen so, eventually, you're probably going to die of nitrogen poisoning....I hear it's a pretty trippy way to go....anyway, that part doesn't bother me too much because whereas I may attain the knowledge from others, I'm still the one putting the work and effort into developing the skills for myself, so that I can keep my pledge to myself to not receive any gifts or items from others so that the life I build for myself is truly and fully MY LIFE.

So yes...I seek knowledge on mining metals from scraps in the wilderness at this time, as well as how to forge them into instruments using stone tools. Thank you for your time, and hope to hear from you.


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## Red Sun

**i throw myself on the floor**

Zumorito Sensei, i offer you my services as a metal repository. I'm able to provide metal on a semi-regular basis, in the form of scrap and coins, which you can then melt down and reforge into useful resources. In this way, you remain entirely self succifient while i, your student, take on the insurmountable task of providing you with scrap metal for the rest of my life.

A little bit about me:

_I began my journey in the winter of 2014, when my old dojo closed and i was forced to walk the path of the warrior alone. I had to sell my Muramasa Katana and United Cutlery Honshu Tanto to buy food and pay for lodgings. By the summer, i had already cut down twelve challengers in duels on the streets of Byron Bay. I had no choice but to use tree branches and stones, and it was here that i learnt the value of self reliance and urban survival skills.

I've been unable to survive without the assistance of homeless shelters and benevolent strangers. But, as i read your words, i get the distinct impression that as your student, i could learn to overcome this adversity and learn the true way.
_
Arigato, gazzami mastah. (sorry, im still learning to speak japanese.)


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## Zumorito

...I'm flattered, haha, but I'm actually seeking a teacher myself; I'm still a student and don't wish to have the responsibility of teaching someone else until I'm positive I'm absolutely ready to, lest I misinform you and it leads to your demise haha.

As to your offer, I must decline for a couple of reasons. The first reason is because, if I recall correctly, coins these days aren't made of pure metal anymore, and are diluted with other materials; at least in America anyway. The second reason is because it's important for me to grow closer to Nature; become one with it. I must pull the elements from the Earth myself.

The types of things I need to know though are subjects such as where to find them, what kind of stone tools will I need to manufacture; what stones should I use, how can I melt down the metals without having a melting pot beforehand, (stone bowls/rocks/volcano?) Etc etc, (Anything that I haven't thought of), like, how do I make plaster in the wilderness to make casts of my tools using wooden models, (using Shark's Skin as Sandpaper)? ....Hmmm...might even be able to use the Shark's teeth to make an improvised saw too, until I can forge one out of my metal.

PS: Haha, no worries; I don't speak Japanese yet. I know a little bit, as well as what the Kanji in my avatar says.


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## Zumorito

...What's so funny, Flying Crane?


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## Red Sun

I understand, Zumorito Sensei. I will still strive to meet your reasonable standards of immortality and absolute perfection, until the day that you're ready to take on a lowly student such as myself.

I thank you for your time and consideration.


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## Zumorito

...Not so much standards, as aspirations; ideals to strive towards. Heh, and with medical technological advances coming along as they are, it may not actually be too long at all before true immortality does become a reality...invincibility is different than immortality though. Invincibility in my mind is simply "never losing a battle". This can be achieved easily enough by simply _only fighting battles which you _know_ you can win_. Don't engage in confrontation; when someone threatens you with violence and there is no genuine need for you to incapacitate them, the best course of action anyone should take is to simply _run away and hide_; it's been keeping our species alive for thousands and thousands of years. There's no shame in running; it only demonstrates your wisdom and great ability to choose your battles. By paying vigilant attention to your surroundings and the people moving about you, and seeking always peaceful resolution, I promise you, you will never lose a fight.


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## Red Sun

I've never encountered such wisdom O.O I think i have to meditate for a few hours~
















 ...and re-read The Book Of Five Rings~


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## Zumorito

...Ten to fifteen minutes should be plenty. Waking Meditations are better in my opinion, particularly for folks who have hectic schedules and can't set aside the time to meditate everyday; there's specific meditations for just about every activity modern people experience in their day to day lives. Meditations for waking up in the morning with a sunny disposition, meditations to do while eating breakfast, lunch and dinner, meditations for waiting in lines, etc; there's even a meditation for driving to and from work. Meditation 24/7 is what you should strive for, as opposed to hours-long marathon meditation sessions, which can actually be counterproductive; it gets uncomfortable, and after a while you find you can't clear your mind because every other thought that pops into your head is "Dang my tail bone hurts!" XD

Little spurts spread throughout your daily routine is what you should shoot for; eventually you should be able to get yourself to a state where you are always experiencing fully the Here and Now, with no distracting or intrusive thoughts jutting into your head when that cognitive energy may have otherwise been used to make your eyes pick up on something novel or out of place moments before an opponent emerges from the shadows, giving you an early warning to either evade the ambush, or circle back and set up your own ambush if necessary. 

I'll try posting some of the 24/7 Meditations on here tomorrow. Good stuff; worked wonders for my anger problems.


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## Flying Crane

Zumorito said:


> ...What's so funny, Flying Crane?


This is a put-on, yes?


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## Red Sun

Zumorito said:


> ...Ten to fifteen minutes should be plenty. Waking Meditations are better in my opinion, particularly for folks who have hectic schedules and can't set aside the time to meditate everyday; there's specific meditations for just about every activity modern people experience in their day to day lives. Meditations for waking up in the morning with a sunny disposition, meditations to do while eating breakfast, lunch and dinner, meditations for waiting in lines, etc; there's even a meditation for driving to and from work. Meditation 24/7 is what you should strive for, as opposed to hours-long marathon meditation sessions, which can actually be counterproductive; it gets uncomfortable, and after a while you find you can't clear your mind because every other thought that pops into your head is "Dang my tail bone hurts!" XD



I see... so in order to improve myself, i need to find a way to achieve a form of unconsciousness in my conscious life~



Zumorito said:


> Little spurts spread throughout your daily routine is what you should shoot for; eventually you should be able to get yourself to a state where you are always experiencing fully the Here and Now, with no distracting or intrusive thoughts jutting into your head when that cognitive energy may have otherwise been used to make your eyes pick up on something novel or out of place moments before an opponent emerges from the shadows, giving you an early warning to either evade the ambush, or circle back and set up your own ambush if necessary.



I'm beginning to understand. In the way of life-and-death combat, it's best to only cut and kill those who you believe are weaker than yourself, and flee from those who could do you harm... But it's also important to be able to come back and overcome my disadvantages by attacking by surprise, perhaps following the enemy to its home and sneaking in while it's asleep...

You're elevating my mind to a new level of the martial arts. When i apply this reasoning, i can think of no enemy who could defeat me. All i have to do is judge myself, and judge my enemy, and know what is appropriate in that situation.



Zumorito said:


> I'll try posting some of the 24/7 Meditations on here tomorrow. Good stuff; worked wonders for my anger problems.



Osu, Osensei. I look forward to your teachings, and will train intensively in the meantime. Intense... meditation. Yes.


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## Zumorito

Flying Crane...no...this is not a put-on. ...What makes you think so? 

Red Sun...I hesitantly note your sarcasm...I have kind of a hard time telling when people are joking or being sarcastic...there wasn't a whole lot of that back in the desert and I can't remember much of my life before I was twelve so...yeah, I might seem kind of slow sometimes. :/

Anyway...no, you don't want to achieve ANY form of "unconsciousness" in your Conscious Life. Not all meditations put you into a deep trance or make you feel drowsy and/or incapable of operating heavy machinery. Some meditations can actually make you feel far more alive than you have ever been before; you'll see everything around you through new eyes, everything is brighter, and everything feels young and new, and you can see all the opportunities and possibilities presented to you moment by moment. Other meditations can make you super focused, like your on meth but without all the horrible druggie-after-affects, and still other breathing-meditations can manipulate your body temperature by consciously building up trace amounts of carbon monoxide in your blood, along with the oxygen; combined with a mastery of various mandalas designs, you can develop your mind's eye's abilities to form any image right in front of your open eyes as if it were really there; convince yourself that you're not actually sitting butt naked in an Arctic blizzard, but that you're actually on a hot, sunn, tropical island off the coast of Madagascar; full of more than half the forms of life on this planet...

...A mentor once told me the story of a man who had accidentally gotten himself locked inside the Freezer Car of a freight-train. He was in there for hours and when they finally found him, he was nearly dead from hypothermia and frostbite. He survived though, supposedly. The strange part though? _The freezer was never turned on_. His _fear_ drove him to _think _ he was freezing to death...and the body must obey the mind. _Believe it_.

In regards to only attacking those you know you can defeat, as well as fighting dirty and being unfair...YES, that is exactly what I'm saying you should do. It is best not to have to fight at all; to manipulate others to do your bidding if you can, so that you can protect yourself (and your family, if you happen to have one of those). Protect your family from what, you may ask? Why, from going through their own little version of Hell on Earth because you got in a fight and got killed, or you got in a fight and accidentally killed someone because you hit them too hard, and/or you get captured and sentenced to prison. These days, at least in America, prisons are "For-Profit" organizations, meaning they want to hold onto you for as long as they possibly can, which means they'll find every excuse to extend your sentence, which means your family has to go through that much more loss, meaning, effectively, you should have done your utmost to run away and make sure everyone went home to their families safely....as I said, it's better to NOT fight, but if there TRULY is no other choice BUT to fight..._win_. You owe it to yourself and everyone you care about. Those who have no rules in regards to trying to kill you deserve no mercy whatsoever from you, ESPECIALLY after your multiple attempts to de-escalate and leave the situations; you gave them EVERY chance to walk away, and they refused...at that point, they should expect _nothing less from you _than a sudden and un-timely _death_.


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## Paul_D

Zumorito said:


> ...A mentor once told me the story of a man who had accidentally gotten himself locked inside the Freezer Car of a freight-train. He was in there for hours and when they finally found him, he was nearly dead from hypothermia and frostbite. He survived though, supposedly. The strange part though? _The freezer was never turned on_. His _fear_ drove him to _think _ he was freezing to death...and the body must obey the mind. _Believe it_.


A man once told me a story of a planet shaped like a disc (a Discworld, if you will) that was supported by four elephants who stood on the back of a turtle as it walked through space.  _Believe it._


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## Flying Crane

If this isn't a put-on, then it is even more funny.


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## Red Sun

I'm being completely serious - But, i understand. I may be coming across a bit too strongly. I apologize, Zumorito Sensei.


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## Blindside

Zumorito said:


> So yes...I seek knowledge on mining metals from scraps in the wilderness at this time, as well as how to forge them into instruments using stone tools. Thank you for your time, and hope to hear from you.



Do you have access to a mine somewhere?


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## Zumorito

I _do_ believe it, Paul D. haha; I was once informed of the same thing myself. Ancient Tibetan model of the Earth, if I recall correctly. I think there were a few more ridiculous elements to it as well. The story my mentor told me is not ridiculous however, it's proven and documented scientifically that the mind can affect the body; it's also been proven that the mind, just by focusing intently on a nearby object, can actually change the _physical properties_ of that object. With the advents of new discoveries in quantum mechanics, we're entering into an age where science can be said to have finally begin measuring and proving the existence of what was once believed to be magic and/or fairy-tales.

Flying Crane: ...well, that was kinda disrespectful. Unless I'm just reading it wrong; I'm kinda like an alien sometimes.

Red Sun: Don't call me Sensei; I haven't earned that title yet, and really, I don't think I'd ever want to. Least of all to someone that I don't even know. Nothing personal.

Blindside: I can dig and break rocks; the basic essentials of mining. I'm not sure if there's any special tricks to finding out just where to start digging and smashing though. I'd need to find something like iron or silver first; I could make some gold pans and work some rivers; there's a relatively large amount of information available on that subject though, but I'm virtually completely uneducated on how to find iron and whatnot, aside from chasing down a meteor and start pounding away on it with some rocks; see if a large enough chunk falls of for me to pound repeatedly until it gets red hot and semi-mold-able. Probably the first thing I'd want to forge is a more effective hammer other than a big rock hahaha.


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## Zumorito

...Helluva workout at the same time. Gonna get BUFF haha.


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## Red Sun

Zumorito said:


> Red Sun: Don't call me Sensei; I haven't earned that title yet, and really, I don't think I'd ever want to. Least of all to someone that I don't even know. Nothing personal.



Understood. I shall refer to you by your username on the forum, and live in hope that one day you will reconsider


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## Zumorito

Thanks.

Hmmm...actually, if I were able to get a big enough chunk of iron off a meteor fragment, I could take it to the mouth of a volcano and find some hot-lava to dip the iron into....that ought to soften it up a bit haha; probably be a lot easier to mold into a hammer then, and a lot faster than just banging on it with a rock in the cold haha. ...And what an adventure it would be.


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## Zumorito

...A hammer from the Heavens.


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## Flying Crane

It is clear that you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA the properties of different metals and how they are mined and extracted and how they are worked and all most definitely are not done in the same way.

I suggest you go read some books on the topic to gain a rudimentary understanding of what it even is that you are talking about, unless that somehow violates your notion of being a self-made man.  In which case you will wander around in the dark until you grow old and die.


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## Zumorito

You're right; I don't have any idea. I noted that earlier. Why do you think I'm asking around? Why do you sound so hostile?


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## Chris Parker

Okay, this is enough to pull me back online… and it's time for this to stop.

"Zumorito", whoever you are, one thing is patently obvious. You either are trolling, or you are psychotically delusional. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything at all to do with Koryu Bujutsu. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything to do with martial arts. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything at all to do with reality. Nothing.

My recommendation is that you either stop trolling, if that's the case. or you seek serious and immediate help if you think anything you've posted here at all is in any way realistic, rational, or sane.

That said, I'm going to pull apart your initial post, and point out just how far from reality you are… which should tell you why Flying Crane and others are asking if this is a serious post.



Zumorito said:


> I'm pursuing the Japanese warrior arts because I seek to become invincible.


 
You are not pursuing Japanese warrior arts. You have no idea of them outside of your delusional fantasies (do not, I repeat, do not get into your head that you are in any position to go to Japan and study Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu. You aren't). And none, absolutely none of them would make you "invincible". Grow up, get help, whichever is more appropriate.



Zumorito said:


> It's not because I want to fight or feel like a tough guy. I seek it because I want freedom. One thing which will help me on my path towards total self-sufficiency, are the elements of Metal.



That doesn't even make any sense. The only metal that can grant "freedom" is gold, and the only freedom it can grant is financial. Nothing here has anything to do with martial arts, Koryu, Japanese ideals and concepts, or reality.



Zumorito said:


> Gold, silver, copper, bronze, iron, etc. I want to learn not only how to obtain metals from Nature itself, but I also want to find out how to do it using nothing but stone tools, at least at first, until I can use the harvested metals to forge my own metal mining-tools instead of using stone tools.



You can't. You don't have anything close to the requisite knowledge, resources, abilities, or anything else. And only using "stone tools"?!?! You do get that many metals are found in very minute amounts, and need to be smelted in order to make what we recognise as metals in the first place, yeah?



Zumorito said:


> Stone tools however will be all I could reasonably use in the beginning though, because I refuse to buy pre-made tools that were manufactured by somebody else, because then, in a way, that company would be able to say "I helped make Zumorito a free man." and I just can't allow that on my quest;



Trust me, no one would make helping you on this "quest" a point of pride for themselves. And, mate, you're already free. You just don't understand what the term means.



Zumorito said:


> I have to attain my own metal with my own hands using my own tools, and then I have to forge the new tools myself



No, you don't. It's lunacy and idiocy.



Zumorito said:


> ; the only thing I can receive from others, is Knowledge, as I have no other choice but to learn new things from sources outside of myself;



Then learn this. Your entire idea is fraught with a complete lack of reality, and only has any possibility of anything close to success if you're a manga character with blue tattoos in the shape of an arrow on your shaven head.



Zumorito said:


> there needs to be input for neurons to connect in my brain, and I can't use my own brain's output as the input because...well, that's basically as useless as breathing your own air over and over,



Garbage. That concept is known as a thought experiment, and is how much of theoretical physics (for example) is conducted. Do you think that Stephen Hawking needs others to tell him everything, or is he processing things in his own head himself? Here's a clue… it's the latter.



Zumorito said:


> it might work for a while, but you're not making any more new oxygen so, eventually, you're probably going to die of nitrogen poisoning….



No, it'd be carbon dioxide poisoning, as that's the dominant gas expelled, not nitrogen… really, there's nothing right in anything you're saying, even when you're explaining one bad and incorrect idea by using poor scientific understanding as an explanation… 



Zumorito said:


> I hear it's a pretty trippy way to go….



What are you on about?



Zumorito said:


> anyway, that part doesn't bother me too much because whereas I may attain the knowledge from others, I'm still the one putting the work and effort into developing the skills for myself, so that I can keep my pledge to myself to not receive any gifts or items from others so that the life I build for myself is truly and fully MY LIFE.



Human beings are social creatures. That's the way we're designed to operate… within social constructs, with the community (village, tribe etc) pooling resources for the betterment of all… you're basically saying you don't want to be human here.



Zumorito said:


> So yes...I seek knowledge on mining metals from scraps in the wilderness at this time, as well as how to forge them into instruments using stone tools. Thank you for your time, and hope to hear from you.



Give up any thoughts of this. Give up any thoughts of training in Katori Shinto Ryu. Your training background (as presented in another thread) is so full of issues and holes that I honestly believe that it's all part of a delusion you've created… perhaps out of something that actually happened, but just as likely not. My reading of your posts is that you have some major issues with the perception of reality, and, until that gets dealt with, I'm recommending removing you from the site.

This thread has nothing to do with Koryu Bujutsu, and as such, is entirely off topic here. It will be reported as such, and, hopefully, closed.


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## Zumorito

You assume too much. I like my privacy.


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## Zumorito

I'm not talking with you if you can't be polite. Think what you like. This conversation is over.


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## Chris Parker

Son, you're in my wheel house here… this is a Koryu forum. You have posted a thread that has nothing to do with Koryu. You're posting delusional lunacy. And believe me, I'm being incredibly polite here.


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## Zumorito

I thought that the shinobi were highly skilled in the arts of wilderness survival; farming and modern arts, making poisons from toads and puffer fish etc. Pioneering skills, self sufficiency. Maybe I'm just an idealist in an idea of ninjutsu that is by and large dead in modern society.Read the Shoninki some time.


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## Zumorito

Which section would you suggest I discuss this subject matter instead?


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## Zumorito

Which part is a delusion? Contact me privately if you want the full story, as well as evidence, and what qualifies you to be trusted with it. Everything stays between you and I.


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## Zumorito

Anyhoo...Logging off for the day. I'll check back later tonight; I find it's best to leave a situation for a while before it gets too heated; opens windows for new perspectives to present themselves. Good day.


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## Flying Crane

Zumorito said:


> You assume too much. I like my privacy.


Then why are you in an online forum?


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## Chris Parker

Zumorito said:


> I thought that the shinobi were highly skilled in the arts of wilderness survival; farming and modern arts, making poisons from toads and puffer fish etc. Pioneering skills, self sufficiency. Maybe I'm just an idealist in an idea of ninjutsu that is by and large dead in modern society.Read the Shoninki some time.



Check out my signature, mate. And believe me, you're hardly in a position to inform me on such things… 

But, more importantly, the ninjutsu area is not the koryu area (there are a number of reasons they're separated, for the record)… and even if there was some auxiliary areas associated with what are commonly referred to as "ninja", that doesn't make trying to mine your own metals with "only stone tools", or anything else you're talking about here in any way related to them, or to Koryu at all.



Zumorito said:


> Which section would you suggest I discuss this subject matter instead?



I'd go with the off-topic area ("General Talk")… specifically areas such as The Locker Room (unrelated to martial arts topics, often light hearted), or, bluntly, the Comedy Cafe.



Zumorito said:


> Which part is a delusion? Contact me privately if you want the full story, as well as evidence, and what qualifies you to be trusted with it. Everything stays between you and I.



The whole idea, your whole thread, your whole approach, your whole understanding and impression of ninjutsu, Japanese martial arts, Koryu, and so on. As detailed above.


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## pgsmith

I think your idea of finding a meteorite and dipping it into hot lava from a volcano is your best bet for what we all hope you accomplish. Please let us all know how it turns out for you!


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## Touch Of Death

You do touch on a concept dear to me. I am they guy that makes assault rifles black, and yes, I do wonder how many of my sight mechanisms are involved, in what ever stand off.


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## jks9199

Admin Note:
Thread moved to a more appropriate area.

jks9199
Administrator


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## ShawnP

some how i just can't wait for Zumoritos reply.....[sits on edge of seat]


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## Zumorito

...Thanks for the feedback.


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## elder999

Zumorito said:


> ...Thanks for the feedback.


(oshitodear...)


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## drop bear

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, this is enough to pull me back online… and it's time for this to stop.
> 
> "Zumorito", whoever you are, one thing is patently obvious. You either are trolling, or you are psychotically delusional. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything at all to do with Koryu Bujutsu. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything to do with martial arts. Nothing in your entire post, and nothing in this thread has anything at all to do with reality. Nothing.
> 
> My recommendation is that you either stop trolling, if that's the case. or you seek serious and immediate help if you think anything you've posted here at all is in any way realistic, rational, or sane.
> 
> That said, I'm going to pull apart your initial post, and point out just how far from reality you are… which should tell you why Flying Crane and others are asking if this is a serious post.
> 
> 
> 
> You are not pursuing Japanese warrior arts. You have no idea of them outside of your delusional fantasies (do not, I repeat, do not get into your head that you are in any position to go to Japan and study Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu. You aren't). And none, absolutely none of them would make you "invincible". Grow up, get help, whichever is more appropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't even make any sense. The only metal that can grant "freedom" is gold, and the only freedom it can grant is financial. Nothing here has anything to do with martial arts, Koryu, Japanese ideals and concepts, or reality.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't. You don't have anything close to the requisite knowledge, resources, abilities, or anything else. And only using "stone tools"?!?! You do get that many metals are found in very minute amounts, and need to be smelted in order to make what we recognise as metals in the first place, yeah?
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me, no one would make helping you on this "quest" a point of pride for themselves. And, mate, you're already free. You just don't understand what the term means.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. It's lunacy and idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> Then learn this. Your entire idea is fraught with a complete lack of reality, and only has any possibility of anything close to success if you're a manga character with blue tattoos in the shape of an arrow on your shaven head.
> 
> 
> 
> Garbage. That concept is known as a thought experiment, and is how much of theoretical physics (for example) is conducted. Do you think that Stephen Hawking needs others to tell him everything, or is he processing things in his own head himself? Here's a clue… it's the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it'd be carbon dioxide poisoning, as that's the dominant gas expelled, not nitrogen… really, there's nothing right in anything you're saying, even when you're explaining one bad and incorrect idea by using poor scientific understanding as an explanation…
> 
> 
> 
> What are you on about?
> 
> 
> 
> Human beings are social creatures. That's the way we're designed to operate… within social constructs, with the community (village, tribe etc) pooling resources for the betterment of all… you're basically saying you don't want to be human here.
> 
> 
> 
> Give up any thoughts of this. Give up any thoughts of training in Katori Shinto Ryu. Your training background (as presented in another thread) is so full of issues and holes that I honestly believe that it's all part of a delusion you've created… perhaps out of something that actually happened, but just as likely not. My reading of your posts is that you have some major issues with the perception of reality, and, until that gets dealt with, I'm recommending removing you from the site.
> 
> This thread has nothing to do with Koryu Bujutsu, and as such, is entirely off topic here. It will be reported as such, and, hopefully, closed.



You are such a dream killer Chris. It is actually depressing to be around people like that. Rather than it being helpful. Just so you know. 

Taylor Swift - Shake It Off


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## Blindside

Zumorito said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Hmmm...actually, if I were able to get a big enough chunk of iron off a meteor fragment, I could take it to the mouth of a volcano and find some hot-lava to dip the iron into....that ought to soften it up a bit haha; probably be a lot easier to mold into a hammer then, and a lot faster than just banging on it with a rock in the cold haha. ...And what an adventure it would be.



Meteorites aren't solid iron, the metals are dispersed within a matrix of stone, the meteorites with the highest percentage of metal have only 15-20% of their material made up of metal.


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## Zumorito

Bummer...guess I could always just keep digging straight down until I get past the Earth's crust and finally hit metal. Oughta be at least a few good sized chunks down there I could break free and melt down.


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## Blindside

Got access to bogs?  Bog iron was a major source of iron for world civilizations until fairly recently.


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## Blindside

Zumorito said:


> Bummer...guess I could always just keep digging straight down until I get past the Earth's crust and finally hit metal. Oughta be at least a few good sized chunks down there I could break free and melt down.



That is called "mining" do you have a place where you can mine?


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## Zumorito

Um...yeah...it's called Earth. XD I'll have to make a digging tool and ropes first; basket weaving as well to make containers for removing the dirt...which I could use to maybe make a cool shelter. I'm assuming it doesn't really matter where you start digging, just so long as it's not ridiculously hard to dig in. Softer soils would probably be best. Maybe a mile or so off the outskirts of a nice little swamp. Probably any tropical environment would have good soil for digging in, plus it wouldn't freeze if it stayed hot year round. Dig as much as I can before bunking down in my shelter with my food and water every night. Eventually I'll reach a point where I'll start hearing the positive clinking of metal. Then it'll be time to drop something really really really heavy and compact down onto it from above; that oughta blast a bunch of chunks loose haha. Sure, long and tedious, kinda dangerous, but man....what a great feeling it would be to make a hammer or a knife that I can truly say is 100% mine. That sounds like it's a good feeling.


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## Touch Of Death

Zumorito said:


> Um...yeah...it's called Earth. XD I'll have to make a digging tool and ropes first; basket weaving as well to make containers for removing the dirt...which I could use to maybe make a cool shelter. I'm assuming it doesn't really matter where you start digging, just so long as it's not ridiculously hard to dig in. Softer soils would probably be best. Maybe a mile or so off the outskirts of a nice little swamp. Probably any tropical environment would have good soil for digging in, plus it wouldn't freeze if it stayed hot year round. Dig as much as I can before bunking down in my shelter with my food and water every night. Eventually I'll reach a point where I'll start hearing the positive clinking of metal. Then it'll be time to drop something really really really heavy and compact down onto it from above; that oughta blast a bunch of chunks loose haha. Sure, long and tedious, kinda dangerous, but man....what a great feeling it would be to make a hammer or a knife that I can truly say is 100% mine. That sounds like it's a good feeling.


Why don't you melt scrap metal in a forge?


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## Zumorito

Like, other people's scrap metal?


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## Touch Of Death

Zumorito said:


> Like, other people's scrap metal?


You got me, there. Who's land do you plan to mine your metal from, and how are you gonna work that moral dilemma out in you head?


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## Chris Parker

drop bear said:


> You are such a dream killer Chris. It is actually depressing to be around people like that. Rather than it being helpful. Just so you know.
> 
> Taylor Swift - Shake It Off



You know what, no, I'm not. What I am, though, is someone who doesn't treat with completely nonsensical ideas as if they're reality or realistic. And frankly, that's a far better approach, especially in some of the areas we deal with here, than offering completely unthought out, uninformed, dangerous advice based on the idea that everyone should just have fun and do whatever the hell they want.



Zumorito said:


> Bummer...guess I could always just keep digging straight down until I get past the Earth's crust and finally hit metal. Oughta be at least a few good sized chunks down there I could break free and melt down.



"Bummer"? No, not "bummer"… what you're being told is reality. You know when you asked what in your posts were coming across as delusional? This. All of this.

You cannot simply "keep digging straight down until you get past the Earth's crust", and even if you did, you wouldn't "finally hit metal". Many metals are found as ore, rather than large nuggets… others as forms akin to sand… only some are actually solid lumps of the element(s)… so… no. You have no idea of even the most basic aspects of what you're talking about.



Zumorito said:


> Blindside said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is called "mining" do you have a place where you can mine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um...yeah...it's called Earth. XD
Click to expand...


No, that's not what was meant.



Zumorito said:


> I'll have to make a digging tool and ropes first; basket weaving as well to make containers for removing the dirt...which I could use to maybe make a cool shelter. I'm assuming it doesn't really matter where you start digging, just so long as it's not ridiculously hard to dig in. Softer soils would probably be best. Maybe a mile or so off the outskirts of a nice little swamp. Probably any tropical environment would have good soil for digging in, plus it wouldn't freeze if it stayed hot year round. Dig as much as I can before bunking down in my shelter with my food and water every night. Eventually I'll reach a point where I'll start hearing the positive clinking of metal. Then it'll be time to drop something really really really heavy and compact down onto it from above; that oughta blast a bunch of chunks loose haha. Sure, long and tedious, kinda dangerous, but man....what a great feeling it would be to make a hammer or a knife that I can truly say is 100% mine. That sounds like it's a good feeling.



You have no idea what you're talking about… it does matter where you dig, some areas are going to have more likelihood of finding a rich vein of whatever metal… but that's the next part… what metal do you think you're even looking for? 

Seriously… none of this is realistic, accurate, or in any way anything other than a delusion.


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## Zumorito

...Whatever. Pretend I don't exist if it bothers you so much. I'm starting to think you just like confrontation and stirring up drama.


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## Zumorito

Touch Of Death said:


> You got me, there. Who's land do you plan to mine your metal from, and how are you gonna work that moral dilemma out in you head?



It will probably be either State or Military land. I plan on starting here in Alaska. Technically I don't even live in a city; I live in a little village on the outskirts of a small town that's a hundred miles away from the nearest actual city. There's vast areas of Alaska that are completely uninhabited and probably even uncharted.

Chances are, no one will care about a young man in the woods miles away from any semblance of civilization; that's my first rationalization over the possible moral dilemma. My second rationalization is...what gives _them_ the right? None of us asked to be born into this world, a member of this flawed species during troubled times under an oppressive government that would instantly demand we follow all their little rules whether we agree with them or not; whatever gave them the right to just take whatever they want and dictate how I'm supposed to live my life? It doesn't make sense to me. They shouldn't be allowed to enslave me, and I should be allowed to fight for my freedom, and create my own life for myself in a manner that is a bother to nobody. ...I'd rather die than surrender to not being allowed to provide for myself...and that's my third rationalization.


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## Zumorito

Chris Parker said:


> You know what, no, I'm not. What I am, though, is someone who doesn't treat with completely nonsensical ideas as if they're reality or realistic. And frankly, that's a far better approach, especially in some of the areas we deal with here, than offering completely unthought out, uninformed, dangerous advice based on the idea that everyone should just have fun and do whatever the hell they want.



Where and when did I advise ANYONE to do _anything_? 
I'm not "delusional" and I'd appreciate it if you stopped saying I'm crazy; I'm _not_. I am _inexperienced_. I'm the_ student_ here; I seek to learn what I can; not to teach or advise. It might happen incidentally at times though, but if you're referring to the volcano discussion, I never "advised" anyone to do that; it was an activity which I wanted to do personally at my own expense by my own choice; it has _nothing_ to do with _anybody_ else.

And wilderness survival and pioneering arts and sciences are just about as close to reality as you can get....maybe you're just more interested in fighting? 

Thanks for the info though.


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## Red Sun

Ok, ok... I thought it was a funny/creative story for a while, but now you're starting to be argumentative. 
I'd like to apologize to the MT community for going along with it for a while. I thought it would be harmless. *closes thread*


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## Zumorito

...Well, yeah, I don't like being told I'm a delusional lunatic when all I'm trying to do is learn new things and make new friends. If I didn't argue it, then chances are a resolution would never be found. Turns out though that maybe Chris and I are starting to see eye to eye...I hope. But anyway, not doing anything would have just filled me with resentment and I probably wouldn't have stuck around if I'd decided to just take it, stick my tale between my legs and run away. I have the right to stick up for myself when I feel the need, and I try to do so as productively and respectfully as I can.


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## Chris Parker

Zumorito said:


> Where and when did I advise ANYONE to do _anything_?



That wasn't to you… pay attention to who is quoted to see who is being addressed.



Zumorito said:


> I'm not "delusional" and I'd appreciate it if you stopped saying I'm crazy; I'm _not_. I am _inexperienced_. I'm the_ student_ here; I seek to learn what I can; not to teach or advise. It might happen incidentally at times though, but if you're referring to the volcano discussion, I never "advised" anyone to do that; it was an activity which I wanted to do personally at my own expense by my own choice; it has _nothing_ to do with _anybody_ else.



Every post you've made shows a lack of ability to reasonably discern realistic ideals and objectives, as well as realistic goals and ideals. And, if you were actually coming here to learn, you might have picked up that absolutely everyone here has been saying that. The very idea that you think you can just find a meteorite, and that it'd be made entirely of metal that you could drop in a volcano is simply one example of the level of delusion in your ideas, frankly.

You're not just inexperienced… you're not just naive… you're patently out of whack with reality.



Zumorito said:


> And wilderness survival and pioneering arts and sciences are just about as close to reality as you can get....maybe you're just more interested in fighting?



Not if approached the way you are.



Zumorito said:


> Thanks for the info though.



Sure.


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## Zumorito

Sorry; my mistake. I have ADD/ADHD and I'm a high functioning Autistic; get things mixed up from time to time. Parents weren't exactly clean-living when they had me. 

I didn't know that meteors usually aren't largely composed of metal. I figured out that I was wrong when I asked about it on here. Voila, I learned something new. How does this make me "out of whack with reality" as opposed to merely uneducated???

What qualifies you to judge me so harshly? What's your real problem???


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## Chris Parker

Zumorito said:


> Sorry; my mistake. I have ADD/ADHD and I'm a high functioning Autistic; get things mixed up from time to time. Parents weren't exactly clean-living when they had me.



Genuinely thank you for that. Understanding where you are coming from is incredibly helpful in how you are engaged with here. 



Zumorito said:


> I didn't know that meteors usually aren't largely composed of metal. I figured out that I was wrong when I asked about it on here. Voila, I learned something new. How does this make me "out of whack with reality" as opposed to merely uneducated???



It wasn't just the lack of awareness of what meteorites are made of, it's the very idea of how you would get metal, what is involved, how you would source it, what you would need, and so on. It's good that you've picked up one correction, but the root of the issue goes to your perception itself, rather than simple factual errors.



Zumorito said:


> What qualifies you to judge me so harshly? What's your real problem???



Let me be clear here, then. This has been far from harsh. My concern is the wellbeing of the forum, as well as the membership as much as possible. That means that, when a potentially disruptive member comes along, in whatever form (such as trolls, who aim simply to disrupt and cause issues wherever they go), I will take note and try to steer things in a proper direction. That can involve being somewhat direct in my comments, as (in cases such as this), there was really no wiggle room for the ideas you were presenting, especially considering the forum you posted it in.

To be honest, some were thinking you were a troll… personally, I was less convinced of that, feeling that there was something you hadn't let us know yet (as you now have). I'm very glad to have been correct!


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## Zumorito

...There's a lot of things I don't want to let people know about me. Either because it's super embarrassing, just hard to talk about with strangers that I just met, or makes me feel angry and vindictive, or makes me start crying and/or induces a panic attack; those usually happen together, starting with the panic attack and then the crying. Heart starts steadily pounding and thumping in my ears, I feel numb and my teeth feel like they're about to vibrate right out of my mouth and my fingernails feel like they're vibrating to the point they feel as though they're flapping up and down, start hyperventilating, feels like I can't breath, eyes swell up with tears, then if I feel like it's getting too severe I take off out of the cabin running as fast as I can, holding my breath and just feeling the wind on my face. Stop and take a breather. Scream at the top of my lungs and start smashing rotten trees apart; anything I can do to release whatever it is that builds itself up inside up me. Usually I ended up getting scraped up and that usually snaps me out of it. Then I just sit there for a while and stare off across the river at the mountains. Kinda became a routine/coping skill. Better than breaking town into a slobbering piping hot mess in front of my family or letting out that energy in the house/on the property....Yeah...I have C-PTSD too. It's kinda like regular PTSD but with _mild_ psychotic features; like seeing or hearing things that aren't really there; usually in the form of flashbacks or hearing sounds of the trauma(s) experienced....for me it's usually screaming children echoing through the rusty drain in the floor of my bare and empty concrete cell; like I can still feel the cold of the pavement on my naked body, can still hear the droning electrical hum of the yellow flickering light fifteen feet or so above me. The most well known cases of C-PTSD are found in Prisoners of War. 

Been getting better at recognizing my triggers and distracting myself. Usually in the form of hobbies and complicated projects to keep my mind busy and stimulated.......like this, for example. XD

Anyhoo....yeah...I don't want people to see me as broken...but I don't want them to see me as an annoying troll either.....so if opening up more and putting it all out there so to speak will help with that....then all the better for it I suppose. Too tired to care right now. Ha, oh yeah, I'm an insomniac too; haven't slept in a couple of days. Usually wake up screaming and pissing myself.


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## Chris Parker

I don't want you to put out any more than you're comfortable with… but I also want you to know that giving us some perspective on where you're coming from certainly helps us not jump to conclusions (such as you being a troll, just as an example), and know how to direct our responses. Hopefully this can put us back on track… one last piece of advice, if you'll hear it, is simple. Asking questions is your best approach. If you want clarification to any answer you get, by all means ask for it. But remember that the answers you get are always given generously by people who don't have to answer… so take them, even when they don't say what you want them to, or expect them to, in the spirit of generosity in which they're intended. That means that, when you say you have a particular idea, and are told that it's impractical, implausible, or simply against the reality of the situation, understand that people are telling you that, among other reasons, to have you not waste your time and energy pursuing such things.


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## Zumorito

Coolness; thanks for the advice. 
...I'm way more receptive when people talk to me like they're Mister Rogers. XD


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## Flying Crane

Zumorito said:


> Bummer...guess I could always just keep digging straight down until I get past the Earth's crust and finally hit metal. Oughta be at least a few good sized chunks down there I could break free and melt down.


No, you could not.  You ought to read a bit about the composition of Earth.  You would never get there.


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## drop bear

Chris Parker said:


> You know what, no, I'm not. What I am, though, is someone who doesn't treat with completely nonsensical ideas as if they're reality or realistic. And frankly, that's a far better approach, especially in some of the areas we deal with here, than offering completely unthought out, uninformed, dangerous advice based on the idea that everyone should just have fun and do whatever the hell they want.



Find the last post you wrote that supported a person in anything.

I seriously cannot think of one. 

Telling people they will fail is easy.

Helping people succeed is the real challenge.


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## ShawnP

drop bear said:


> Find the last post you wrote that supported a person in anything.
> 
> I seriously cannot think of one.
> 
> Telling people they will fail is easy.
> 
> Helping people succeed is the real challenge.


i have to agree with Chris here, he is a man of facts and well thought out informative posts. even if they do come off harsh they are fact and truth.

his first post is very supportive as well as fact based and truth.

Training in Japan


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## hoshin1600

"_the farther one travels the less one knows"    _*-*George Harrison-

the problem as i see it, is a matter of time.  anyone can learn anything given enough time.  
if we take an average. a human being has about 50 years (rounding for the sake of argument) of good productivity. the early years are taken by growing up and the last years are a decline in health. so a human has about 50 years to accomplish this task.
now what the OP is proposing is that he wants to take the human evolution of 200,000 years and the brain work and experience of trillions of people (based on scientific estimates and putting aside creationism and the fact that Homo sapiens would have received knowledge passed from the previous Homo erectus, Neanderthal, cromagnon and clovis )  and compress that into his short 50 years of life.

now this quest would have to start with stone tools.  early problems arise in that you cant jump to the absolute end of the problem. before you can create steel you will have to first create tin, lead, copper than bronze.  before that you will need bone tools, leather and rope.  you will need to kill deer and moose for sinew string and leather for a bellows for the smelting furnace and forge. to get that you will need to make a bow and arrow so you will need a bow string  made from animal sinew so to start you will need to kill a deer or two with that rock. then maybe after you made some sinew string you can connect that rock to a stick to make a stone hatchet. you will probably need to cut down a few hundred trees with that for the smelting furnace heat.   you will need a particular type of grass for the carbon to go into the metal which means you will need to farm for it.  so of course you will need a horse (good luck finding a wild horse and taming it)  oh and im not sure how or where you will get the seeds for your carbon producing grass.  you will also need to mine for limestone used as a flux to separate the ore from the prime metal. also needed is metallic arsenic,,,,as i think about it you might want to start with a school degree in metallurgy, how else are you going to recognize Realgar from malachite from galena from useless rocks and the principals of cupellation.which brings me back to that deer,, you will need the deer antlers to make cupels.
( i hope your writing all this down....)
well for now go kill that deer with that rock, make some sinew string, make an ax with that stone , cut down a mature full growth hard wood tree and get back to me when thats done.....


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## Flying Crane

And in the meantime, ya gotta eat and get in out of the rain, and stay healthy.

And all that takes considerable time and effort, especially for one person living alone in the wilderness.  Good luck finding time and energy for the other pursuits.


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## hoshin1600

I think the delusional part showed up when you decided a martial art forum would be more informational than Google or Wikipedia.


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## Paul_D

Zumorito said:


> I'm not "delusional"


You wanted to "keep digging straight down until I get past the Earth's crust"

The Earth's Continental crust is typically 20 to 30 miles thick. 

The worlds current deepest mining operation at Tau Tona is 2.4 miles deep.

You are the very dictionary definition of delusional:  _"having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions"_


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## Tames D

Flying Crane said:


> You ought to read a bit about the composition of Earth.


Can you learn from a book? Wouldn't a video be better?
Just messin with ya FC


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## Flying Crane

Tames D said:


> Can you learn from a book? Wouldn't a video be better?
> Just messin with ya FC


BAH!!!


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## drop bear

ShawnP said:


> i have to agree with Chris here, he is a man of facts and well thought out informative posts. even if they do come off harsh they are fact and truth.
> 
> his first post is very supportive as well as fact based and truth.
> 
> Training in Japan


The post in which the op asked if he could do something and Chris killed his dreams. 

Nope thats classic Chris


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## ShawnP

drop bear said:


> The post in which the op asked if he could do something and Chris killed his dreams.
> 
> Nope thats classic Chris


i didn't read it that way...sorry


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## Chris Parker

drop bear said:


> Find the last post you wrote that supported a person in anything.
> 
> I seriously cannot think of one.
> 
> Telling people they will fail is easy.
> 
> Helping people succeed is the real challenge.



The problem here is that you think "helping someone" is giving them what they want, regardless of how ill-advised, or how ill-informed the request is. As a result, you see an attempt to give information that brings someone closer to the reality (where they can actually start to get to what they think they want) as being "unhelpful". That, frankly, is down to your own desperate lack of knowledge, awareness, insight, and understanding of many, many topics.

Frankly, you don't even know what the topics are, let alone how to advise in their areas, yet you feel your opinion is valid. It's not. And it's the same here. But for the record, I don't tend to tell people "they will fail" (you're reading your own issues into things there), I point out the issues with their incorrect beliefs and expectations… which is a bit different.

Really, the difference between yourself and myself is if someone came on, and said they wanted to climb on top of a building and jump, because they wanted to fly, and I pointed out that they'd need a hang-glider, or better yet, a plane… and they'd need some training in order to fly either themselves… you'd say "oh, don't be mean, the guy can jump if he wants, who are you to stop him flying?".


----------

