# The ego? The self? Letting go? Help!



## Corporal Hicks (Jul 24, 2005)

Hi,
I've been praticing Buddhism for about a month or so now and have become really intrigued with it! Some concepts i.e. the EightFold Path are relatively easy to understand even if difficult at times to 'live' them.
One thing I've really been struggling with however is that of the ego or the self? Such Ideas have hit home to me, I realise that I defend something and when getting into an arguement I have noticed that something in the back of my head says to me "what are you defending, for what purpose?" this is something that I understood, and through meditation I'm beginning to understand how rooted in myself the indiviual I thought I was exists and in some way how it causes me to suffer. I also understand that I'm not losing the idea of myself by letting go of the self and this I have experienced as being true. 
However what is bothering me is that, some deeply rooted things in me stem from my self and its partically difficult. To give an example, I can get a very jealous and today I felt an old thought pattern and response go straight to my head when I heard my girlfriend got drunk last night out with some female and male friends and is planning the same tonight (so much for her Christian camp) anyway, I sat down and meditated on it and realise when I went deep into myself that it reflected back to me, I realised that the idea of myself was involved, how if she 'did' do something that it would affect me, that it would somehow make my ego feel stupid or hurt (does this mean I'm identified strongly with it), and that I had attached myself to her. Is this going against Buddhism? The whole idea of attachment? I cannot seem to grasp the concept! 
I mean there is the true self underneath everything that is meant to be unaffected by everything external, but inside but I have barely experienced that.
These feeling were really strong and I found myself battling against them, trying to understand them, even trying to accept them was difficult. Sorry this is really long winded, but I'm getting confused now!
As a praticing Buddhist is making attachments wrong? Is there a way it should be praticed? Are there ways to see what I am defending, as I would like to know what it is so strongly inside that makes me so jealous of my girlfriend doing something, is it my ego that is making me insecure?
I'm sorry its long winded and too much about myself but I'm just so confused!
Kind Regards


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## TonyM. (Jul 25, 2005)

You will either control your emotions or they will control you.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 25, 2005)

TonyM. said:
			
		

> You will either control your emotions or they will control you.


I was afraid of that!


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## still learning (Jul 26, 2005)

Hello,  Maybe you should talk to your girl friend and let her know how you feel about her getting drunk.

 If she can't change herself,  what happen's when she becomes a mother to your children?  Growing up means doing the right things, getting drunk shows she needs to grow-up.  Social drinking is OK, but if one needs to get drunk to have a good time?  this person lost it! and unbecoming of a female behavior...

 It will always bother you till you can talk to her and your instincts will tell you what kind of a person she is and will become?

 the best way to tell what kind of a person you or she is, by looking who there friends are and who they hang around everytime. Your friends and her friends behavior will reflect the personallitys.  If you are around good , honest, trustworthly people so are you!  but if the love to get drunk and play around...that is what type of person they are......TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS..........Helps to talk to that person.........Aloha


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 26, 2005)

the whole concept of attachment is against buddhist teachings.
the first noble truth , the truth of suffering: physical; birth, old age, sickness and death, and mental suffering: loss of someone through separation or death, the inability to satisfy needs and wants.
the second noble truth of buddhism is the truth of the cause of suffering : desire and ignorance.

this is just for starters.
one of the things you must start to do is realise that all things are only temporary and attaching yourself to these temporary things is desire for ownership. when loss is experienced you will suffer mentally. when people own something, they feel a sense of pride and accomplishment......this is ego. 
the purpose of meditation is a step towards releasing yourself from your attachments or possessions in order to reduce suffering or eliminate it.
meditation must be purposeful without purpose, you must be mindful and also without mind. do not meditate with acheivement in mind, when your expectations are not met you've experienced loss and with it, suffering.
let's take your girlfriend as you have experienced emotional attachment. people can only ultimately control one thing....their own actions. when you experience suffering because of your girlfriends actions, you are powerless. you may not wish to control her actions, or you may; your ego makes you feel jealous at the lack of control. you must accept that your control extends no further than you, letting go of the ego.
sounds like a big load of crap for sure, doesnt it?
you can only do what you can do in order to make your feelings known, after that it is beyond your control.

take any object that you own and cherish......maybe something that belonged to a family member that is really special.....or something you may have bought. when something happens to the object it can hurt you deeply. understand that it could be taken from you at any moment. you must be able to let go of everything.

ive been studying and practicing buddhism for almost 14 years. i struggle with myself everyday. the process of understanding is the most important.......not understanding.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 27, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> the whole concept of attachment is against buddhist teachings.
> the first noble truth , the truth of suffering: physical; birth, old age, sickness and death, and mental suffering: loss of someone through separation or death, the inability to satisfy needs and wants.
> the second noble truth of buddhism is the truth of the cause of suffering : desire and ignorance.
> 
> ...


Yes I understand all the factors as you say, I study the eightfold path everyday and reflect on it during meditation. Thanks for the reply about my g.f to both of you! I understand now the jealously, as one thing I will be focusing upon is that I can only control my own actions, I have to create in essence my own world, or not?! 
I understand about letting go, its difficult with some things, but sometimes as I said before I defend something and then wonder why and realise I'm defending my ego.
However can you remind me again why we are trying to rid of the ego? it is the cause of suffering isnt it?
Could you say thats the problem with Buddhism, since many people would love to enjoy a fulfilling life, with the attachment and the suffering it may bring?
Or aim I missing the point that my life within, my being has nothing to do with the reflection of the outside world, that in essence myself has nothing to do with the environment? 
To get rid of your ego, would that not mean not loving things anymore, or simply to be rid of the suffering that that attachment brings?
Regards


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jul 27, 2005)

Get hold of a couple of Alan Watts books. He was, himself, a tortured alcoholic, while at the same time being one of the best voices of Buddhism in the English world. Particularly, a small book by him about mosquitoes biting iron bulls. Makes for a helluva read. Particularly as it challenges the dualistic/compartmentalized thinking that seems to seep it's sneaky way into contemplation, as well as the writings of so many other thinkers.

Regards,

Dave


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 27, 2005)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> Get hold of a couple of Alan Watts books. He was, himself, a tortured alcoholic, while at the same time being one of the best voices of Buddhism in the English world. Particularly, a small book by him about mosquitoes biting iron bulls. Makes for a helluva read. Particularly as it challenges the dualistic/compartmentalized thinking that seems to seep it's sneaky way into contemplation, as well as the writings of so many other thinkers.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dave


good call dr dave, alan watts is an excellent resource for insight.

cpl hicks, in your posts you repeatedly say that you understand this or that and put into practice the eightfold path and all that rot. i am telling you now, not from a position of authority, but just some friendly advice. the first step to implementing buddhism into your life is to admit to yourself that you really understand nothing. enlightenment isnt borne through understanding, it comes from realisation.....while the 2 terms may sound somewhat analogous, in respect to what i am discussing they are different. 
when you say to me that you understand, what i am hearing is that you realise you understand nothing.
feeling love for someone is fine......as long as you accept what being in love is, and that you dont own love......it owns you, understand?
overthinking is counter productive. have you ever heard the saying "happiness is...", and you say to yourself......"is what?"
it just is. 
zen.....being, doing, mindful, living in the moment, no past, no future.
release all thoughts and expectations....this is the path.


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## Flatlander (Jul 28, 2005)

Corporal Hicks said:
			
		

> Yes I understand all the factors as you say, I study the eightfold path everyday and reflect on it during meditation. Thanks for the reply about my g.f to both of you! I understand now the jealously, as one thing I will be focusing upon is that I can only control my own actions, I have to create in essence my own world, or not?!


Not. The world is.  You do not create it, you influence and interact with it.  You are a part of it.


> I understand about letting go, its difficult with some things, but sometimes as I said before I defend something and then wonder why and realise I'm defending my ego.
> However can you remind me again why we are trying to rid of the ego? it is the cause of suffering isnt it?


 Without ego, there can be no attatchment.  All things change, and it's non-sensical to desire ownership of something transient.  


> Could you say thats the problem with Buddhism, since many people would love to enjoy a fulfilling life, with the attachment and the suffering it may bring?
> Or aim I missing the point that my life within, my being has nothing to do with the reflection of the outside world, that in essence myself has nothing to do with the environment?


There is no outside world.  You are the environment.  


> To get rid of your ego, would that not mean not loving things anymore, or simply to be rid of the suffering that that attachment brings?
> Regards


Love does not necessarily mean clinging to something.  One can love and still embrace change.  Can you love a river?  Love the experience, not the thing.  These are my thoughts.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 28, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> good call dr dave, alan watts is an excellent resource for insight.
> 
> cpl hicks, in your posts you repeatedly say that you understand this or that and put into practice the eightfold path and all that rot. i am telling you now, not from a position of authority, but just some friendly advice. the first step to implementing buddhism into your life is to admit to yourself that you really understand nothing. enlightenment isnt borne through understanding, it comes from realisation.....while the 2 terms may sound somewhat analogous, in respect to what i am discussing they are different.
> when you say to me that you understand, what i am hearing is that you realise you understand nothing.
> ...


Ok, I didnt not mean to put it in the context that I understand, but what I meant was that I can follow the meaning behind what you saying, and behind what I read even if I dont understand it, I can follow it, I'm trying to realise without conscious thought. Ah how can I put it, I'm trying to experience, without trying if you get what I mean. 

Know some views seem to be conflicting the current book called Modern Buddhism that I just read seems to take on the idea that through realisation, as you are part of the world then you can change it, or at least percieve it to be postive rather than negative, but like you say this is confusing since how can I change the world? Only through my eyes?

Its confusing because Im mixing the power of now with Buddhism, without being entirelly sure if they are moving towards the same thing. Buddhism of what I read seems to be heading towards more consciousness of self by living in the now, as the power of now states, maybe interplaying these was not such a good idea?!

Now reading both your boths I have come to realise as you stated at the start that indeed I do know nothing, or at least nothing about enlightenment, I have only caught glimspes for a more conscious state that seems to slip away quickly. But not only that I realise as you have put that I can only understand the words that you say, I have not experienced the realisation behind them, now it has come to light that I dont need to 'understand' I need to realise? To experience the 'truth' for myself?!
Is this correct?


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 28, 2005)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> There is no outside world. You are the environment.
> These are my thoughts.


I am the environment? I am interlinked with everything, every being upon this planet, this is what you mean by not having a ego? since the ego is only a flase created self that believes its not part of the evironment? That it is somehow indiviual?

I am the environment? Thats hitting somewhere, I know what your getting at, but I to 'know' it to 'feel' and realise it is a different thing that cannot be done without thought process? 
Is this why we meditate? To come to realise? Or should meditation be a part of every day life. I mean to do it all the time. When I walk I pay every attention to detail, to everything, to try to 'not think' and if I realise that though process are interfering I accept that it is and not resist and that way it seems to go. Paying every attention, the wind, the acknownledgement of everything and anything, is that one way of being to realise about the interconnectedness with nature because something inside agrees that it is?
So the essence in Buddhism is to take things, as red? As they are? Without prejucidice or projections or pre-concepts and then to realise and understand and experience these points?!


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## Tgace (Jul 28, 2005)

You can ultimately only control yourself. That means either you tolerate your girlfriends actions, you make an attempt to talk to her about it or you leave her if it bothers you that much. The "suffering" comes when you want so desperately to "hold onto her" even when you cant tollerate the things that she is doing. If she wont change you either tolerate it or you dont. You are in control of your feet.


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 28, 2005)

Corporal Hicks said:
			
		

> I am the environment? I am interlinked with everything, every being upon this planet, this is what you mean by not having a ego? since the ego is only a flase created self that believes its not part of the evironment? That it is somehow indiviual?
> 
> I am the environment? Thats hitting somewhere, I know what your getting at, but I to 'know' it to 'feel' and realise it is a different thing that cannot be done without thought process?
> Is this why we meditate? To come to realise? Or should meditation be a part of every day life. I mean to do it all the time. *1.* *When I walk I pay every attention to detail, to everything, to try to 'not think' and if I realise that though process are interfering I accept that it is and not resist and that way it seems to go*. Paying every attention, the wind, the acknownledgement of everything and anything,*2.* *is that one way of being to realise about the interconnectedness with nature because something inside agrees that it is?*
> So the essence in Buddhism is to take things, as red? As they are? Without prejucidice or projections or pre-concepts and then to realise and understand and experience these points?!


1. moving meditation for a novice is something i would avoid entirely.....and when you do move onto moving meditation i would suggest a martial arts form......something you know so that you can do, doing without doing, in order to get deep inside the form. you are overthinking meditation. its about clearing your mind and making it empty. in japanese its called mushin. when novices start out they usually sit in a comfortable position and count breaths. you'd be surprised how hard it is to sit still and count 10 breaths continuously without having a thought enter your head. when you count a breath you acknowledge what is happening during it. the air moving from in front of your nose, into your body, the rising of the abdomen, the stopping of the abdomen, the falling of the abdomen, the exhalation of breath. this is where you should start.

2. before you can go onto realising the interconnecyedness of nature, you need to start smaller and understand the connectedness of your body with the air you breathe.

its all about baby steps. the harder you try, the further away anything of value will seem. its like going somehwere and not knowing your destination until you arrive.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 29, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> 1. moving meditation for a novice is something i would avoid entirely.....and when you do move onto moving meditation i would suggest a martial arts form......something you know so that you can do, doing without doing, in order to get deep inside the form. you are overthinking meditation. its about clearing your mind and making it empty. in japanese its called mushin. when novices start out they usually sit in a comfortable position and count breaths. you'd be surprised how hard it is to sit still and count 10 breaths continuously without having a thought enter your head. when you count a breath you acknowledge what is happening during it. the air moving from in front of your nose, into your body, the rising of the abdomen, the stopping of the abdomen, the falling of the abdomen, the exhalation of breath. this is where you should start.
> 
> 2. before you can go onto realising the interconnecyedness of nature, you need to start smaller and understand the connectedness of your body with the air you breathe.
> 
> ...


The point I was making with the first one is that I believe it is called satori by the Zen masters, what they call a flash of enlightenment.
I've had these flashes for a long time now, since I was a child and I never understood them or what they meant and I can replicate them by using this moving meditation that you speak of but only for a few seconds. Techniques I have previously learnt and used using the the power of now.
I have already begun using that form of meditation with the breathes. 
Regards


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 29, 2005)

i think you need to find someone in your area that can teach you proper meditation. right now it is like reaching out in a dark room looking for a door handle that isnt there.


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 29, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> i think you need to find someone in your area that can teach you proper meditation. right now it is like reaching out in a dark room looking for a door handle that isnt there.


Lol! Ok, thanks for the replies! Will find a.s.a.p, thank you for your advice. Appreciated!


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## lulflo (Jul 29, 2005)

Very interesting thread, I have been following it and just unable to find enough time to put down any ideas, but I like what is in here.

When it comes to ego and all, I think about the idea of what each person, animal and thing is made up of and try to imagine what it would be like to be a particle that was jealous of another within my body. Doesn't that sound silly? Well when you are jealous, really it is the same thing. Realize that everything that is, has a goal and that it is an individual goal. There is something going on that is intended to be and that if you are not present in mind enough to notice it, that it will pass you by, but also that if it passes you by, then that was what was supposed to happen because there is, after all, no such thing as coincidence - right? 

Synchronicity is the word. To realize (on a bigger scale) that every person has something that his/her life is meant to achieve and that we are all talking and meeting and interacting together at specific times in our lives to trigger new thoughts and directions for each other is terrific. But to hold on to that thought for every moment is even better. Don't get lost in translation, language is a barrier for understanding, go with your feelings, and you know what is right or wrong for you. It is the deviation from your own path, I think, that makes you jealous. Others purpose is not for you to determine/judge. But you may be making a decision about yourself by witnessing these others in you life. I hope you enjoy your life and achieve that which you were meant to. Some are meant to create new technology, some are meant to be better teachers of reading, some are meant to take ideas to another level, some are meant to perform actions that you may think preposterous, but whatever their calling, respect them for their mission, know that you met/saw them for a purpose and take from each moment what you can in your own journey, for the flesh dies and you don't have enough time to worry, as that would mean you are neglecting the present. Your life has steadily prepared you for now, each and every time now happens so just rely on that which you have learned until now and shine in the moment. Be well Brothers and Sisters.

Farang - Larry


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## Corporal Hicks (Jul 29, 2005)

lulflo said:
			
		

> Very interesting thread, I have been following it and just unable to find enough time to put down any ideas, but I like what is in here.
> 
> When it comes to ego and all, I think about the idea of what each person, animal and thing is made up of and try to imagine what it would be like to be a particle that was jealous of another within my body. Doesn't that sound silly? Well when you are jealous, really it is the same thing. Realize that everything that is, has a goal and that it is an individual goal. There is something going on that is intended to be and that if you are not present in mind enough to notice it, that it will pass you by, but also that if it passes you by, then that was what was supposed to happen because there is, after all, no such thing as coincidence - right?
> 
> ...


Thats a good reply! 
The only thing I would quiery from that it is deterministic, thats not necessarily a bad thing but it could imply that your life is already planned out for you since nothing is conincidence, that simply people were meant to achieve certain 'goals'.
Good post though!
Cheers


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## still learning (Jul 31, 2005)

Hello,  All sucessfully marriages ( over 25 yrs or more) ask them How? and Why?  

  Most likely they will say the first one will be " they are my best friend".
  will want to be with you most of the time and always there for you...
  two: trustworthly and loyal to each other and is always thinking of each other.

  three: Is a grown-up and mature person ( age is not the factor here). knows when to stop drinking.

  any order:  Is always willing to support you and your idea'a
                  once you have children both will dedicate their lives to raising them

 does not only think of themselves but is also very caring of others, helpful and loving to other people too.............Just my thoughts....Aloha


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