# Form Technique vs. Self Defense Technique



## michaeledward (Nov 15, 2005)

Looking for some thoughts from the more experienced among us. 

As we work our way through the Kenpo forms, we recognize there are differences between the way the a 'Technique' is performed in the form compared to the way a 'Technique' is run for self-defense purposes. 

An example, as I understand it:
Five Swords in Form 4 begins with a downward block and the proceeds with open hand handswords for each of the five strikes.

Five Swords in the self-defense technique uses a heel-palm strike and an uppercut in two of the five strikes.​My understanding, in this instance, is that the differences are that self defense technique changes weapons because of the challenges of accuracy in self-defense. The finger poke to the eyes (form) requires a high level of accuracy to be effective, and if missed can inflict damage on the practioner. In a self-defense situation, the heel-palm and uppercut will be effective weapons, with a lower risk of self-harm. In the form, the attack is a kick-punch, rather than the punch of the ideal phase of self-defense.

Okay, so there's the premise.

Am I nuts? 
Is there a different reason for these differences? 
Am I imagining these differences where there are none? 

Is there a form v self-defense difference that sticks out for you? 
What is the difference and why do you believe it exists? 


Just a follow up ... I recently learned the technique 'Destructive Fans', which I understand is the first technique of Form 5 (don't know the form yet), and it seems there is a difference in timing (because the timing of the last strike seems confusing). Looking forward to your thoughts.


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## Sigung86 (Nov 16, 2005)

There are probably much deeper issues involved ... But the most obvious one is that forms/kata are mainly for the purpose of cataloging and teaching motion, and not to be confused with practical application... At least in most schools.


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 16, 2005)

If i remember correctly I was once told by a kenpo instructor that some of the differences where to keep the student aware that different options were 
out there when defending oneself and to make sure a person did not get locked into a doing something just one way


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## Ceicei (Nov 18, 2005)

I recall the original "5 Swords" technique was really like 7 swords.  I learned the "5 Swords" as all handswords (no heel palm and uppercut fist).  It was not until a few years later the 5 Swords technique changed to the current one with heel palm/uppercut.  I was told it needed to evolve to become more practical.  That's not the only technique I remember changing over the years.

Many of the forms retain the original techniques.  There may be reasons why the original techniques in the forms were left that way and not altered to match the revised self defense techniques.  The forms teach many concepts/principles.  I enjoy learning them and discovering new ideas each time I do the forms.

- Ceicei


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## Ray (Nov 18, 2005)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> There are probably much deeper issues involved ... But the most obvious one is that forms/kata are mainly for the purpose of cataloging and teaching motion, and not to be confused with practical application... At least in most schools.


I agree with that and add that, at some point, we should study the forms to look for other application of the movements (different attacks, different defenses, etc).


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## PG_ShaolinKempoKarate23 (Dec 13, 2005)

Oh please,
Just be happy that your forms are actually applicable to fighting....




I do Shaolin Kempo


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## Ronin Moose (Dec 13, 2005)

*


			
				PG_ShaolinKempoKarate23 said:
			
		


			Oh please,
		
Click to expand...

*


			
				PG_ShaolinKempoKarate23 said:
			
		

> *Just be happy that your forms are actually applicable to fighting....*
> *I do Shaolin Kempo*




This is truly meant as friendly advice, but if you are really that unhappy with your sensei/studio/whatever, just move on to something better rather than use this forum as a means to blast them (while you're still studying there).  I can understand your being unsatisfied with USSD, but it accomplishes nothing to tell us you are a current student, then put them down in several posts.  I'll bet any of us would try to help you find a new dojo in your area - just ask.  Best wishes on your journey.....

-Garry


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 13, 2005)

... Moving right along, the most obvious difference between the self defense techs for street application and the techs for forms is the exagerated motion. The idea is that if you are strong enough to do the deeper stances and the higher kicks, the street modification should be a snap. Forms help newbies to understand that its OK to bend their knees once in a while. The forms also hold historic techs which as many know have only been preserved by chinese opera; you can imagine the flash that was added to mask practical and dangerous fighting application. Shaolin Kenpo is a little further from the American Kenpo hybrids in street fighting transference, but imagine the conditioning and motion study that it takes to do that stuff right.
Sean


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## Making the Journey (Jan 29, 2006)

Mr. Parker Sr. developed Kenpo to be tailored to the individual as well as the situation.  The kata's show just generic versions of the techniques.  The technique has to be tailored to the individual as well as the situation. Thus, the heel palm and the upper cut leave more margin for error.


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