# Recommend a book please



## ArmorOfGod (Jun 13, 2008)

I need something new to read.  I want it to be epic, meaning it can be up to 4 books long if it is worth reading.
I just finished the first 4 books of the Fire and Ice Series (Crown of Swords, Feast of Crows, Game of Thrones) by George Martin and it was amazing.  I didn't like any of the Tolkein books and the Wheel of Time series became far too hard to enjoy after about book 6 due to his writing style.  I grew up on the Shannara books by Terry Brooks, so you can look at that and see what I am kind of looking for.  The Recluce books by Modessitt were amazing as well and fit what I am looking for right now.
I don't want anything space based and I like things that are semi-realistic (like the George Martin books) with a little bit of magic thrown in.  I liked some of the Discworld Terry Pratchett books, but I am not looking for anything particularly humorous.
Any suggestions?

AoG

AoG


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

Fire and Ice was kick-***, I was gonna recommend it but you've already done it.  I'm on the edge of my seat, waiting for book five.

Another good choice is _Dies the Fire_, by S.M. Stirling.  It's a present-day setting, but takes place after a mysterious "Event" that inexplicably makes all modern technology non-functional worldwide, including firearms, electricity, automobiles, etc.  So everyone who manages to survive, is thrown into a sort of Midieval existance.  There are currently 4 books in the series, but book five is still in hardback so I'm waiting for the paperback.

I just picked up _World War Z_, I forgot the name of the author.  Haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I've spoken with people who give it very high praise.  It is written in a sort of documentary style of interviews, with people who survived the Great Zombie Apocalypse, or something like that.  Supposed to be very gritty and quite good.  I just watched _28 Days Later_, and _28 Weeks Later_, so I'm kind of on a zombie kick right now.

This same author has also written a survival guide, on how to prepare for and survive a zombie invasion


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## Kacey (Jun 13, 2008)

Anything by Anne McCaffrey, but especially the PERN books - not quite space-based (in the original set, the settlers have forgotten how they got there), plus dragons... real, big enough to ride, dragons.

Scott Westerfield has a 4-book trilogy (I know... it _was_ a trilogy, but then he wrote another one) that I really enjoyed - Uglies, Pretties, Specials, Extras.  If may be in the juvenile/teen section of the bookstore/library, but a very thought-provoking series that I quite enjoyed.

Katherine Kurtz' Deryini may fit your requirements quite well - set in pseudo-historical England (Gwynnedd), with the Deryini - humans with a little extra "plus"; some abilities are innate, requiring only training, while others require magical rituals.  Set between (roughly) 1000-1200 AD, with the appropriate technology and social strata.  The original trilogy was a little rough around the edges, but once you get into the first book, a great read!


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## CoryKS (Jun 13, 2008)

Try "The Belgariad" by David and Lee Eddings.  Five books, but it's easy and highly entertaining reading.  There's also a sequel series of five books called "The Malloreon", but the first set is complete if you don't wish to continue.


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## ArmorOfGod (Jun 13, 2008)

Wow!
Thank you everyone!
Still, keep the suggestions coming.
My library system is made up of 14 libraries.  They will ship any book from any library to my library for free and I can reserve them over the internet.
Please, keep adding.  This will make my reading list for the next several months.

BTW, Flying Crane, Fire and Ice is maybe the best series I have read yet.  HBO has licensed it for a series, but I hope it doesn't happen.  There's far too much blood, incest, and young people doing very grown things to make it work for the small screen.

AoG


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> Wow!
> BTW, Flying Crane, Fire and Ice is maybe the best series I have read yet. HBO has licensed it for a series, but I hope it doesn't happen. There's far too much blood, incest, and young people doing very grown things to make it work for the small screen.
> 
> AoG


 
Complete agreement on all counts.  It would almost have to be a rated X movie, for violence and sex, but it wouldn't be a true porn flick.

When I was younger, I read a lot of fantasy stuff, until I finally figured out that very little of it is truly unique, and much of it is really poorly written.  So I drifted away from it for years.

A couple years ago I began to drift back into it again, and re-read some of the old things that I had read when I was younger (some good, much bad).  Then I went into a neighborhood bookstore that specializes in Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror/Gothic Fiction, and asked for some recommendations.  _Fire and Ice_ was the first of their recommendations that I read, and I was just blown away.  The quality of the writing was just WAYYYYY above the average crap that makes up the bulk of the genre. 

Then I stumbled into Stirling's _Dies the Fire_, and I think he's in a pretty close second place, as far as quality of writing.  I mis-spoke in my prior post, book FOUR is still in hardback, there is no book five and I don't know if there ever will be or not.

I'll list a few of the other books I've read, that you might want to check out.

Ursula LeGuinn's _Earthsea_ stories, beginning with _A Wizard of Earthsea_, started as a three volume trilogy, but has grown to 6 or 7 now.  They are all fairly short, but I believe were very well written.  It involves a main character who studied at a Wizarding University (I believe Harry Potter is a VERY CHEAP rip-off of this story), but set in its own Midieval universe.  This series was begun quite a while ago, probably the 1960s or 1970s, so it's been around for a while.

Another series was written for a younger audience, is the 5 volume Prydain stories by Lloyd Alexander, beginning with _A Book of Three_.  It is another midieval type setting, drawing heavily on Welsh mythology, good vs. evil and such.  In a way, it's sort of a Tolkienish story aimed at a younger audience, but I loved it as a kid.  I read it again a few years ago as an adult, and found that it is still a very good story.  Well written, and certainly not "dumbed-down" for children like much of today's writing is.  Again, these were written in the 1960s.

Another series that I liked when I was younger is the Book of Swords, by Fred Saberhagen.  I read them again as an adult, and I don't think the writing is of the same caliber as some of the others, but I found the idea behind the story to be compelling.  The series starts with _The First Book of Swords_, and is a trilogy.  Then, he continued the story with the _Books of Lost Swords_, of which there are 8 or so volumes, I haven't read all of these. 

The idea in this story is that the gods (Greek archtypes) are very petty and selfish and small-minded.  They ask Vulcan to make 12 swords of power, to be distributed among the humans, basically to see what happens, and for their amusement.  So these swords, each possessing one unique magical quality, are sprinkled by the gods among the various human populations, and a certain amount of chaos ensues as people try to possess them and fight over them and whatnot.  Then it is discovered that these swords can kill the gods themselves, and suddenly the gods want them back.

There is one situation in one of the later volumes of Lost Swords, the story of the sword Farslayer, that I found pretty amusing.  The power that this sword has is that you can magically fling it away, and it will kill your enemy from a distance.  The sword vanishes when you throw it, and it reappears with the blade buried in the chest of the enemy you have named, no matter where he is.  No amount of distance or protection or armor or fortifications can stop it.  It is a guaranteed kill.  The problem is, once you have used it, it doesn't come back to you.  It stays where it is until someone else picks it up and uses it.  

This sword falls into the hands of a family that was in the middle of a generations-old blood feud with another family.  And they just take turns flinging the sword back and forth, killing each other off, one at a time until both families are decimated.  Every time someone used it, they knew retribution would be visited upon themselves, but they just couldn't help it.  They kept using it.  I really liked that whole idea, thought it was pretty funny.

Here's another idea: have you read the Beowulf epic poem?  It's a bit different from a modern novel, but is an inspiration for many of the fantasy stories of today.  It might be a good one to check out, if you haven't.  There are numerous translations on the market, so you ought to be able to find one that works for you.  Most of them are translated from the Olde English into modern English, but try to retain the poetic style of narration.  If you aren't used to this kind of thing you may need to struggle with it a bit, but it's a great story.  And stay the hell away from the new, animated Beowulf movie with Angelina Jolie.  I see there is also a novel on the market, based on this movie version.  Absolute garbage, and a real disgrace.

A novelized rendition of the Beowulf story that I found compelling is _Whose Song is Sung_, by Frank Schaefer.  In this novel, the story is told from the point of view of one of Beowulf's companions.  It's pretty hard-core with violence and stuff, and a very good read.  I stumbled onto it in a used book store, and found it to be pretty good.

anyway, hope some of these ideas work for ya.  I'll try to think of some other good ones...


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## Archangel M (Jun 13, 2008)

Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series. 

(Didnt like Tolkien???...GASP!)


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

CoryKS said:


> Try "The Belgariad" by David and Lee Eddings. Five books, but it's easy and highly entertaining reading. There's also a sequel series of five books called "The Malloreon", but the first set is complete if you don't wish to continue.


 

I felt that the Belgariad had a higher quality of writing overall, than the Mallorean.

There are also two separate volumes in this story where the Wizard Belgareth and the Sorceress Polgara each narrate the events of their long lives, spanning several thousand years each.  Those are not badly written.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series.
> 
> (Didnt like Tolkien???...GASP!)


 
ah, this is the one where the D&Ders get magically transported into their characters, right?  I had forgotten about those, I think I only read the first volume.  I can't remember much of anything about it.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 13, 2008)

Some very good recommendations, ladies and gentlemen.

The Deryni books are marvellous and complex but be warned, they presage the modern trend for 'grittyness' and any character you grow to like, love or admire will probably get killed by someone you despise (and any good that was achieved through great sacrifice will be undone by the next book) .  Brilliant for ideas and creativity but marked down for being a bit too 'real' in that regard.

The Earthsea trilogy {I've not read the others} was very good.  Simply written but rich, like so much of Le Guins work.

I'm at a bit of a loss, *AoG*, how can you prefer the copyist Brooks over the original Tolkien?


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## Archangel M (Jun 13, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> ah, this is the one where the D&Ders get magically transported into their characters, right? I had forgotten about those, I think I only read the first volume. I can't remember much of anything about it.


 
Yup..good pulp action fantasy/fiction. Book 1 was ok, but I got hooked after book 2.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> I'm at a bit of a loss, *AoG*, how can you prefer the copyist Brooks over the original Tolkien?


 
aye, it does beg the question.

However, please see my tag line: _de gustibus non disputante est_. concerning taste, there can be no dispute.


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## Archangel M (Jun 13, 2008)

Brooks stuff was OK. I liked it when I was in my teens-twenties, but couldnt get further than the third book. Then I lost interest.

Another series I LOVED as a teen but just couldnt re-read as an adult was the Thieves World series.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Katherine Kurtz' Deryini may fit your requirements quite well - set in pseudo-historical England (Gwynnedd), with the Deryini - humans with a little extra "plus"; some abilities are innate, requiring only training, while others require magical rituals. Set between (roughly) 1000-1200 AD, with the appropriate technology and social strata. The original trilogy was a little rough around the edges, but once you get into the first book, a great read!


 


Sukerkin said:


> The Deryni books are marvellous and complex but be warned, they presage the modern trend for 'grittyness' and any character you grow to like, love or admire will probably get killed by someone you despise (and any good that was achieved through great sacrifice will be undone by the next book) . Brilliant for ideas and creativity but marked down for being a bit too 'real' in that regard.


 
I don't know anything about this story.  Could you guys give me some more info?  I'm also always on the lookout for some superior quality fantasy writing, and I'd hate to miss a good one.

Sukerkin: this same gritty trend is very prevalent in the _Song of Fire and Ice_.  Check it out if you haven't.  It is hands-down the very best fantasy that I have read in a very very long time.  It is truly a breath of fresh air in a genre that is clogged with a whole lot of mediocre to downright poor writing.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 13, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Another series I LOVED as a teen but just couldnt re-read as an adult was the Thieves World series.


 
ah yeah, that was one of mine as a teenager as well.  I think I liked the IDEA behind the story better than most of the actual stories themselves.


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## jks9199 (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, in addition to Recluse (he's added a few more over the last few years), Modesitt's Corean Chronicles and Spellsong Saga are enjoyable. 

If you want something more modern/historical, I'm currently reading a trilogy by John Birmingham called The Axis of Time; it starts with *Weapons of Choice*, and is about a mid-21st Century multi-national naval fleet that gets popped back to 1942, just in time to totally cluster**** Midway.  Some interesting ideas about culture clashes and the impact of technology.  It IS NOT a deus ex machina type of thing like so many of 
Turtledove's seem to end up being...


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## Sukerkin (Jun 13, 2008)

Whilst I think on it, The Many Coloured Land by Julian May is brilliant.  

Donaldson's long twin series (with recent additions) of Thomas Covenant is a good (if frustrating at times) read.  Be warned that you will in all likelyhood require a dictionary by the bed for these .


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## ArmorOfGod (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> I'm at a bit of a loss, *AoG*, how can you prefer the copyist Brooks over the original Tolkien?


 
I think my love of the Shannara books by Terry Brooks tend to come from a happy middle school memory rather than the quality of the books.  I have read the second book (written second) the Elfstones of Shannara every October since I was 12 years old, although I have not read it in the past 4 or 5 years, so my tradition hasn't held up, but still.
My problem with Tolken and my way way bigger problem with the Wheel of Time books is they are almost a chore to read sometimes.  Like I said though, Wheel of Time was far worse than Tolken, which was worth reading in the end.  Right now, I want something indepth, a little gritty, and very detailed, but not something where I will have to take notes to understand what is happening halfway through the book.

AoG


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## Archangel M (Jun 13, 2008)

I really didnt get hooked on Tolkien until I picked up one of those Tolkien dictionaries that described anything and everything throughout the series. Once I saw the depth of the story and all the backstory connections, I was an addict.


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## jks9199 (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Some very good recommendations, ladies and gentlemen.
> 
> The Deryni books are marvellous and complex but be warned, they presage the modern trend for 'grittyness' and any character you grow to like, love or admire will probably get killed by someone you despise (and any good that was achieved through great sacrifice will be undone by the next book) .  Brilliant for ideas and creativity but marked down for being a bit too 'real' in that regard.
> 
> ...


The original Earthsea trilogy is great; the 4 books (I think) that follow expand upon it in a very good, very believable way.  All of them have a lot to say about responsibility...  (One of the things I like about Modesitt's books is that there are always several messages running through them; accepting responsibility for one's choices and their consequences is almost always there.)

You might also look for *The Initiate Brother* and *Gatherer of Clouds* by Sean Russell.  They're set in a place very much like the Far East, and have an interesting side story about martial arts...

Lately, I've also been getting into things like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files books which are set in our world (or somewhere close), but with magic working.  The Kitty the Werewolf books are another example...  (*Kitty and the Midnight Hour*, *Kitty Takes a Holiday*, _et al_)...


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## Kacey (Jun 13, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't know anything about this story.  Could you guys give me some more info?  I'm also always on the lookout for some superior quality fantasy writing, and I'd hate to miss a good one.
> 
> Sukerkin: this same gritty trend is very prevalent in the _Song of Fire and Ice_.  Check it out if you haven't.  It is hands-down the very best fantasy that I have read in a very very long time.  It is truly a breath of fresh air in a genre that is clogged with a whole lot of mediocre to downright poor writing.



The Deryni are humans with (discussed only in a companion text, not in the novels) a genetic mutation that gives them abilities we would often place in the realm of psychic powers; these powers can (and are) inherited from one or both parents.  Certain Deryni with an extra mutation (also inherited) can heal most injuries.  The novels in are set, as I said, in Gwynnedd, a pseudo-historical England, where the Deryni are considered a separate breed; in some places and times, they are a ruling class, while in others they are a derided underclass determined to be damned from birth.  During the times when they are derided, they are determined by the Church to be damned from birth, and found by a potion that affects Deryni much more than pure humans.  Because of this, the Deryni in Gwynnedd are persecuted in place of Jews and others of religions that the Church does not approve of - both because they are much easier to find, and because their ancestors usurped the throne of Gwynnedd and then were, in their turn, overthrown.

In addition to the inborn, almost instinctive "psychic" powers, the Deryni also have the potential to become ritual magic workers - expanding their abilities to things like scrying, taking the seeming of other people, lighting fires, using transporter-like devices fueled by magic to move between places, weather magic, and related events.

The characters in the series are people you'd want to - except for the ones you want to kill.  As I said, the original trilogy (which is now in the middle of the timeline, as Kurtz wrote books that took place both before and after the original set) is a little rough, but the characters are wonderful, and her writing improved noticeably the more she wrote - I would suggest reading them in the chronological order in which they occur, rather than in publication order.  The Wikipedia article is actually pretty good, and the related article on the novels gives the chronological sequence.

These novels were originally recommended to me over 20 years ago by a coworker, and I still have the original volumes I purchased, along with the additional ones that have been published since then.  As Sukerkin said, characters will die who deserve to live, and vice versa - but it makes the stories more real, at least to me.


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## Archangel M (Jun 13, 2008)

David Drakes RCN series was very good too. I have to pick up the latest volume.


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## Kacey (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Whilst I think on it, The Many Coloured Land by Julian May is brilliant.
> 
> Donaldson's long twin series (with recent additions) of Thomas Covenant is a good (if frustrating at times) read.  Be warned that you will in all likelyhood require a dictionary by the bed for these .



I didn't... and I started reading them in high school.   But... my father is an English professor who started me on Tolkien when I was 12.  :EG:

I also agree with everyone who recommended LeGuin - and I would recommend the Ekumen novels as much as the Earthsea novels.  I especially enjoyed The Left Hand of Darkness - a truly interesting take on how an androgynous _human_ society might develop, through the eyes of a single human ambassador sent down to experience the society, as a non-threatening way to introduce them to the rest of galactic society.

If you're interested in fantasy that crosses the fantasy/fiction line, I would also recommend Mary Gentle's Golden Witchbreed novels - there are only 2, Golden Witchbreedand Ancient Light, set on another planet, showing how the human ambassador (who, as in the LeGuin book above, comes alone - which is what made me think of them) learns about the ancient culture of the natives, who have a society that... well, if I tell you it'll ruin a major plot point.  But they're very good books.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 13, 2008)

:sensei rei:  *Kacey*.  

Without undue modesty (setting aside my stereotypical Englishness for a moment) I have a better than average grasp of my native language and even I was forced to reach for the Oxford on occasion just to make sure that what I interpreted from context was correct ... and some words weren't even in there because he essentially concocted them from 'roots'.

For example, my best guess at what _Unambergrised_ meant was 'unadorned' or 'unmarked' (in the context of a grave).  Can you tell me if I was close with that (it's been about two decades and it still bothers me not to be certain )?


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## Kacey (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> :sensei rei:  *Kacey*.
> 
> Without undue modesty (setting aside my stereotypical Englishness for a moment) I have a better than average grasp of my native language and even I was forced to reach for the Oxford on occasion just to make sure that what I interpreted from context was correct ... and some words weren't even in there because he essentially concocted them from 'roots'.
> 
> For example, my best guess at what _Unambergrised_ meant was 'unadorned' or 'unmarked' (in the context of a grave).  Can you tell me if I was close with that (it's been about two decades and it still bothers me not to be certain )?


Close... ambergris is a substance harvested from whales, which is (or was) used as a perfume base - often used at funerals and in mortuaries to cover the scent of the decomposing bodies.  So from the noun "ambergris" you move to the verb "to ambergris" - that is, to prepare a body for burial, generally with love and respect.  After that, you move from the verb to the adjective "ambergrised" - meaning respectfully prepared for burial.  So "unambergrised" would be the opposite - either unprepared, or prepared without respect.  

I figured most of it out on my own - but I knew what ambergris was when I started, and confirmed much of the rest of it later on.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 13, 2008)

Many thanks!  I too knew of ambergris (one of the advantages of reading Moby Dick and "Two Years Before the Mast" as a boy) but I didn't make the link with 'embalming' so to speak.  The phrasing was "unambergrised grave" and that threw me off the scent (yeah!  Linguistics-based pun attack ).


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## Kacey (Jun 13, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> Many thanks!  I too knew of ambergris (one of the advantages of reading Moby Dick and "Two Years Before the Mast" as a boy) but I didn't make the link with 'embalming' so to speak.  The phrasing was "unambergrised grave" and that threw me off the scent (yeah!  Linguistics-based pun attack ).



Ggggrooooaaaannnn.....


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## Tomu (Jun 14, 2008)

I would recommend the Dark Tower series by Stephen King.  I know what your thinking, but its not horror.  
check it out.


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## marlon (Jun 15, 2008)

"outside the Dog Museum"  Johnathan Carroll


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## Drac (Jun 15, 2008)

If you want to read somthing with a little Budo flavoring try " *The Ninja*" and " *The Miko*" by Eric Lustbaden..I enjoyed both


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