# Why you keep unknown people at a distance



## Deaf Smith (Jan 27, 2010)

When I took SouthNarc's class a while ago, part of the class was on managing unknown contacts. Well here is what happens when you don't do that.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ostring_27met.ART.State.Edition1.4bda145.html


"Woman beaten, robbed of $90,000 ring outside Whole Foods in North Dallas

Dallas police are looking for a man who beat a woman and stole her $90,000 diamond wedding ring in the parking lot of a North Dallas grocery store Monday night. 

The woman, who asked that she not be identified for fear for her safety, suffered a broken nose, chipped teeth and bruises over her face and body in the attack. 

Shortly after 7 p.m., the woman was returning her shopping cart after loading her car at the Whole Foods on Preston Road near Forest Lane when a man approached. 

*After asking whether she needed help*, he grabbed her and threw her to the asphalt between two parked cars. 

He straddled her and began banging her head against the ground and punching her in the face. He ripped her diamond necklace off. 

The woman cried for help, but no one responded."

****

She let him get close using a ruse. And she had $90K ring on!

Deaf


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## Carol (Jan 27, 2010)

Ugh!  Nasty.

TV report added something interesting.  

The attacker fit the surroundings:  young, "preppy", and drove a fancy car.


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 28, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> She let him get close using a ruse. And she had $90K ring on!
> 
> Deaf



I thought the same thing. Grocery shopping with a 90K ring AND a diamond necklace on? Save the bling for a night out with your husband. 

I'm not blaming her for being attacked, but I remember another thread discussing being the "gray man". Unfortunately, she made herself a target.


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## Drac (Jan 28, 2010)

Jade Tigress said:


> Grocery shopping with a 90K ring AND a diamond necklace on? Save the bling for a night out with your husband.


 
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... 



			
				Jade Tigress said:
			
		

> I'm not blaming her for being attacked, but I remember another thread discussing being the "gray man". Unfortunately, she made herself a target.


 
The fact that her cries for help went unanswered really sickens me..Recently I saw 2 older teens harrass an elderly male for money outside a beverage store..I exited my vehicle and growled at them to take a hike..My voice attracted attention and they fled promising me to be waiting when I came out, they weren't...


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## MJS (Jan 28, 2010)

First off, why anyone would be walking around with rings and necklaces that're that much money is crazy to begin with.  Now, before someone accuses me of trying to dictate what people can/can't wear, I'm simply saying that your actions, what you wear, etc. will dictate what kind of attention is drawn to you.  I mean, if you're a young, attractive female, with a good body, and you like showing it off, so you wear low cut tops, and short skirts, don't get offended when the guys are drooling.  

Be aware of whats going on around you.  Even during casual conversation with people I know, I hate it when they're on top of me.  Sorry, but I dont need to smell what you had for lunch, while we're talking.  Arms length is a safe bet.  Anyone who continues to approach me, I'm going to take that as aggressive movement and will react accordingly.  

As for passerbys not doing anything...well, in todays day and age, this should not be a shock to anyone.  People just dont want to get involved, and depending on where you live, I can't blame them.  People are fearful of the punks, so they say nothing out of fear that the punks will retaliate.  At the very least, someone should have called the police.  I'm sure that just about everyone today, has a cell phone.


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## Drac (Jan 28, 2010)

MJS said:


> First off, why anyone would be walking around with rings and necklaces that're that much money is crazy to begin with. Now, before someone accuses me of trying to dictate what people can/can't wear, I'm simply saying that your actions, what you wear, etc. will dictate what kind of attention is drawn to you. I mean, if you're a young, attractive female, with a good body, and you like showing it off, so you wear low cut tops, and short skirts, don't get offended when the guys are drooling.


 
True..More than once I have had a scantly dressed female aske me, "What are you staring at?" and my answer is always " You"



MJS said:


> Be aware of whats going on around you..


 
Being aware of what's going on around you is the first rule of self defense. 



MJS said:


> Even during casual conversation with people I know, I hate it when they're on top of me. Sorry, but I dont need to smell what you had for lunch, while we're talking. Arms length is a safe bet. Anyone who continues to approach me, I'm going to take that as aggressive movement and will react accordingly..


 
Yup..Or being surprized..I was giving directions to a lost person when one of my new bosses walked up on me and put their hand on my shoulder..I was half way through the technique when I realized who it was..He just looked surprized..



MJS said:


> As for passerbys not doing anything...well, in todays day and age, this should not be a shock to anyone. People just dont want to get involved, and depending on where you live, I can't blame them. People are fearful of the punks, so they say nothing out of fear that the punks will retaliate. At the very least, someone should have called the police. I'm sure that just about everyone today, has a cell phone.


 
Sad but true...Yeah, they have cell phones..However they are usually so engrossed in conversation that they prollly couldn't/wouldn't see it..Ever been behind one of those talking and driving?? One action suffers and its usually the driving, but I am getting off topic..


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## harold (Jan 28, 2010)

One thing I try to teach my students is that we are responsible for our own safety. Do not expect anyone to help you.As has been already said, be aware of your surrondings,and try to make yourself as "grey" as possible. I tell my students to remember the ABCs
A- Awareness
B- Body posture (If you look alert and confident most likely the thugs will pick another target)
C- Concepts ( If all else fails be prepared to use self defense concepts to minimize the danger)


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## Jade Tigress (Jan 28, 2010)

Drac said:


> The fact that her cries for help went unanswered really sickens me..Recently I saw 2 older teens harrass an elderly male for money outside a beverage store..I exited my vehicle and growled at them to take a hike..My voice attracted attention and they fled promising me to be waiting when I came out, they weren't...




I saw a disturbing story on CNN the other day. A woman was raped by a 15-year-old boy in broad daylight on the _sidewalk_ of a busy street. Lot's of traffic passing by, lots of honking going on. Only ONE person called 911.


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## Stac3y (Jan 28, 2010)

When I lived in New Orleans, it was thought (and I believe it) that muggers judged your potential worth as a victim by your shoes. So smart city dwellers were careful to wear their least ostentatious shoes when out and about. Also to be avoided were expensive clothes and jewelry. Most people also carried money in more than one pocket, with one pocket designated as containing "robbery money." Carrying a purse was considered an ungodly stupid idea, and wallets were not to be carried in back pockets, as those are easier for pickpockets to snag. These were the rules I followed when I lived there, though I had to carry a bag when going to work. I also wore baggy shirts that covered my derriere after being harrassed unmercifully by the N.O. jail inmates who collected garbage in the mornings, as well as the drunks who were rolled out of the all night strip clubs around the time I was walking from the bus stop to work. Since their comments revolved around that body part, I figured camouflage couldn't hurt.

Living with eternal vigilance is stressful and can be very depressing. I feel much safer in my current city, though I'm still watchful, and I still habitually dress down. No sense in tempting fate.


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## teekin (Jan 28, 2010)

Well Winnipeg may be Dull'sville but at least I can dress how I want and carry a purse. 
Geez Stacy I'm sorry it's such a hassle for you to even wear Jeans and a T-shirt.
lori


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## Omar B (Jan 29, 2010)

It's pretty sad that happened to her, but it's another lesson in situational awareness.  Also, don't talk to strangers does not only apply to kids.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 29, 2010)

The Marines have a saying" Be polite, be courteous, be profesional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."


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## seasoned (Jan 29, 2010)

Omar B said:


> It's pretty sad that happened to her, but it's another lesson in *situational awareness*. Also, don't talk to strangers does not only apply to kids.


 Very good point. By the time a stranger is close enough to ask you a question, you have made yourself a victim. Defensive driving has gone a long way in raising awareness of impending car accidents. How much more important to take a few minuets to check your surrounding in a parking lot or while walking down an unfamiliar street. If you are aware, your gut will tell you if things don't look right.  "Why you keep unknown people at a distance". This should be self defense 1-0-1.


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## Stac3y (Jan 29, 2010)

Grendel308 said:


> Well Winnipeg may be Dull'sville but at least I can dress how I want and carry a purse.
> Geez Stacy I'm sorry it's such a hassle for you to even wear Jeans and a T-shirt.
> lori


 
Sorry, I was unclear. I no longer cover my ASSets. Austin is far safer than New Orleans, and the only time I did that there was when I knew I was going to have to walk by the strip clubs and past the N.O. jail garbage detail by myself. I don't think wearing tighter or more revealing clothes would have been more dangerous, either; it was just a hassle to hear all the catcalls.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 29, 2010)

And now the surveillance video...

http://www.wfaa.com/video/raw/Surveillance-video--83000797.html


Deaf


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## MA-Caver (Jan 29, 2010)

Carol said:


> Ugh!  Nasty.
> 
> TV report added something interesting.
> 
> The attacker fit the surroundings:  young, "preppy", and drove a fancy car.


 


Jade Tigress said:


> I thought the same thing. Grocery shopping with a 90K ring AND a diamond necklace on? Save the bling for a night out with your husband.
> 
> I'm not blaming her for being attacked, but I remember another thread discussing being the "gray man". Unfortunately, she made herself a target.



I don't want to blame her for the attack either but yeah I echo everyone's sentiments about making yourself attractive to potential thieves... wearing that kind of BLING is going to get attention... yes, that's what it's designed for but not THAT kind of attention. Agreed, wear the stuff on a night out and not at the supermarket. 
I love my gf but I'm not going to be getting her stuff that is going to make somebody think ... hey, I want that! If I do she's going to know not to be flaunting it except when we go out together to somewhere nice and SAFE (if there IS such a place). 

The guy is going to have to try and hock/fence that somewhere OUTSIDE of Dallas because a 90K ring and probably an equally valuable necklace is going to make pawn shop owners call the police. 

You just KNOW the insurance adjuster is thinking to themselves that they ought to deny her claim on the jewels because she was being "careless" with them.


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## Flea (Jan 29, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> And now the surveillance video...
> 
> http://www.wfaa.com/video/raw/Surveillance-video--83000797.html
> 
> ...



Well, I'll give her some credit for not trying to go after him ...


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## Carol (Jan 29, 2010)

MA-Caver said:


> The guy is going to have to try and hock/fence that somewhere OUTSIDE of Dallas because a 90K ring and probably an equally valuable necklace is going to make pawn shop owners call the police.



I highly doubt they are going to be hocked in Texas at all.  It's only 4 hours from Dallas to Laredo, the perps can take a 5 minute walk over one of the bridges and fence the jewelry in Mexico.

On a side note, I wonder if it was her jewelry that originally caught the attention of the perps?  Or her _car_?


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 29, 2010)

Well you guys let me tell you a story...

Long time ago (a LONG time ago) a friend of mine was in the Navy. He was in NYC at night and this guy comes up and asked him for change from a 20. 

So he starts to get his wallet out and the guy snatches the wallet and runs. Well my friend ran after him and caught up with him. The snatcher whipped around with a knife and laid open my friends guts. Yes, he had to hold them in with his hand as he stood there and the thief ran off. He still has that deep long sucking line across his gut. He learned a bitter lesson that night the hard way. 

Well fast forward to about 15 years ago. He was in a 7-11 type store getting some smokes and when he reached over to point out what kind to the teller, exposing is Rolex, he noticed out of the corner of his eye one gent elbow another guy and nod toward the Rolex.

The ex-navy guy kept that in mind as he left and noticed they both followed him and got in their car as he got in his.

Going down the road a few miles he noticed they caught up with him and they flashed their lights. One of them, as they pulled up beside him, said one of his tires was wobbly and might fall off.

So the ex-navy guy nodded thanks and kept going. Well they pulled up again and insisted the tire was coming off.

So our ex-navy guy said, "OK", and pulled to the side of the road while the other car pulled behind his. Both of them got out of their car and started toward his.

The ex-navy guy reached below the seat and pulled out his Colt .45 pistol (as in 1911A1) and cocked it as he stepped out of the car.

He proceeded to put one shot right between the two gents by their feet.

They left in great haste proving that an ace can beat a pair or more if used right.

And no, there was nothing wrong with his tires. 

He had decided after being knifed that he would not be the one left on the ground this time and he kept aware of what was going on around him.

I'm sure the lady in the video will be more aware from now on, but that's a hard way to learn and at great cost.

Deaf


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## Flea (Jan 29, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> I'm sure the lady in the video will be more aware from now on, but that's a hard way to learn and at great cost.
> 
> Deaf



On one level she has a lot to be thankful for.  She could have lost much, much more.


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## stonewall1350 (Jan 29, 2010)

When I was a first grader in high school a junior in the school I went to(1st-12th grade) was followed home one evening after work. He was run off the road 50 yards from his driveway and shot execution style. Needless to say this instinct comes naturally to me because of that area that I grew up in. Now that I am in college I see girls who think it is ok to run at 1030pm in a training bra and tiny shorts ALONE. I just don't get this behavior. Is it me or do people just not understand how quickly things go from bad to worse anymore? I am going to carry concealed when I turn 21, and my roomate is vehomently(forgive spelling) anti-gun. He grilled me on the subject and I just could not get him to understand that even if you THINK you are in a good area that things go from bad to worse fast and cops are only there for clean up duty. I urge anyone who feels they are safe to rethink that thought and take some self defense courses or at the very least give some thought to your daily routine.


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## MJS (Jan 30, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> Well you guys let me tell you a story...
> 
> Long time ago (a LONG time ago) a friend of mine was in the Navy. He was in NYC at night and this guy comes up and asked him for change from a 20.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for posting this, and I'm glad to hear that your friend came out of this ok, as well as surviving his earlier attack.  Yes, I'm sure those thoughts lived with him, thus the reason why he did what he did the 2nd time.  

This is what I'm talking about.  Some may agree with what he did, some may disagree, thinking he was a tough guy, perhaps the gun was excessive, and just hand over the watch.  I disagree with the 2nd line of thinking.  You get attacked once, you get tired of reading about the violent attacks that happen, and you decide that enough is enough, and make the choice that you dont want to be a victim.

Thanks again for posting this.


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## MJS (Jan 30, 2010)

Not sure how long this clip will be up, but I wanted to post it as another example of how violent things are today.
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/rash-brutal-street-robberies

This past Wed. night, while I was at work, I took a call from a guy who said that he was just hit over the head, by 1 of 3 males that came up behind him.  He wasn't robbed of anything, just hit, and his head had a pretty good gash.  Fortunately, with him giving a good enough description of the scumbags, and a quick reponse from the PD, the 3 bags of trash were caught.  

2 more reasons to be aware.  Sure, its very possible, that against 2 or 3 dirtbags, you may get your tail kicked, but all the more reason to fight back harder.  The odds are already stacked against you, so fight like your life depends on it....because it does!


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## K831 (Jan 30, 2010)

Andy Moynihan said:


> The Marines have a saying" Be polite, be courteous, be profesional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."



No way to say it better. How sad that we need to program ourselves that way, but thats the case. I have labored that point with my wife.

As to the value of the ring, I agree it was silly to run around with a ring worth that much, but none of us should forget that there are many people out there who would do the same thing for the average $2000 or $4000 wedding ring. Especially with the current economy and where society is at in general.

I think we would be remiss to assume that if we don't drive the flashy car or have highly expensive jewelry that we are immune. I would guess most assaults of this type happen over much less.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 30, 2010)

Flea said:


> On one level she has a lot to be thankful for. She could have lost much, much more.


 
I agree very much.

And yes guys, I see people go late at night walking. I hope, being in Texas, they have their roscoe, as in gun, on them.

Reminds me of another story....

Long time ago, ok real long time ago for me, I had this girlfriend, Melinda, who wanted to go walk in this park not too far off at night (oh, think of the things we could have done makes me kick myself....) 

I was 25 or so, a professional already, and a karate/gun nut (in fact that's how she talked her way into my apartment... you know to learn some self defense;-)

Ok, so she made the suggestion and I, knowing that the park was dark and very UNLIT plus back then no CHL law to pack heat, said no.

She thought I was chicken and said she goes there now and then.

I still said no. 

And I would still say no today, even though I do pack heat. I have better things to do than get into gunfights.

Anyway my friends just keep aware when you go out, especially when the circumstances make you venerable (alone, late at night, distractions, etc...) And if you feel the least bit uncomfortable with the situation, back out, and no apology is needed to be given nor offered for your conduct.

Deaf


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## Flea (Jan 30, 2010)

I've had terrible insomnia my whole life, waking up during the wee hours for quite a while before I can relax again.  My whole family had it, so my parents were very touchy about my getting up and making any noise or even turning on the lights.  

As a teenager I got sick of simply lying there and waiting for the sun to rise.  Especially since I usually woke up vibrating with nervous energy.  So my solution was to get out of the house entirely - I'd tiptoe out and walk for _miles_.  Strangely, my otherwise strict parents never said a word.  I never had any destination in mind, and I usually wound up at a big sprawling city park.  It was a cushy bedroom suburb, and very thoroughly policed, but it surprises me as I think back on it how lucky I was.  I never even got harassed.

Oddly, the worst problems I've had are in spaces that are supposed to be safer - buses, as a guest in people's homes, and in my own home.  It's pretty rare that I have to deal with a serious issue out on the street.

A couple years ago I was talking with my Dad, and he brought up my nocturnal ramblings for the first time in 20 years.  He condemned me in a rather snotty way for sneaking out _to meet boys_.  No, I said, I was just walking because I couldn't sleep.  He blew up a little with a sarcastic, "yeah, right!!"  Whatever.  He's always been a little weird.


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## sgtmac_46 (Feb 1, 2010)

Who walks around wearing a $90,000.00 ring?

It was probably a set up deal, not a random mugging.  Someone who knew this gal had her robbed.


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 2, 2010)

Omar B said:


> It's pretty sad that happened to her, but it's another lesson in situational awareness.  Also, don't talk to strangers does not only apply to kids.



If you look at the stats, strangers aren't really that dangerous.
You are much more likely to be killed, raped or robbed by your close relatives or friends. the closer people are, the more likely they will hurt you.

Stranger danger is taught primarily because it is much easier to imagine the seedy looking pervert in the bushes wanting to hurt you, than the friendly teacher / coach / husband, etc.

Yes, whenever I am in a parking lot or alone in a palce where there are other people, I try to be aware of where people are or if they are approaching me. But 99% of the time I know they are just minding their own business. And even if they approach me, they have a benign reason for doing so.


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## Omar B (Feb 2, 2010)

Doesn't matter if it's stranger or friend, situational awareness applies all the time.


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## Bruno@MT (Feb 2, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Who walks around wearing a $90,000.00 ring?



The same people who also put all their life savings in a sock under their mattress, or who send their life savings to a 419 scammer.
Or perhaps they are simply rich enough that 90K is really not that special anymore?


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## Deaf Smith (Feb 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> The same people who also put all their life savings in a sock under their mattress, or who send their life savings to a 419 scammer.
> Or perhaps they are simply rich enough that 90K is really not that special anymore?


 
Well true. I tend to walk around with well over a thousand dollars on me all the time. Glock 26 cost me $425, Smith 642 cost me $450, E2D Surefire was $100, plus holsters, ammo, wallet. Yea 'bout a 'K' right there!

So when they ask me to hand over my money...

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Feb 3, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> The same people who also put all their life savings in a sock under their mattress, or who send their life savings to a 419 scammer.
> Or perhaps they are simply rich enough that 90K is really not that special anymore?



At any rate, probably some dirtbag relative sent the guy to smack her around and take the ring.


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## Em MacIntosh (Feb 5, 2010)

Being pinned and getting your head banged against the ground is one of the most absolutely terrible experiences of helplessness.  Despite what she may have learned about not getting picked her psychology may never recover.  I hope justice is done.  More than that I hope she might be one of the few people to improve her life over such an experience.  Such an extreme experience could be a catalyst for good or bad.


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