# the worst night of my life =\ what would you do ?



## Paul-M (Jun 8, 2008)

It's 10:21 A.M here in the UK and the first thing I thought when I woke up was I gotta put this on Martialtalk lol.

Still a bit drunk though so bare with me lol.

In my city we have Queen Street which is full of shops and no bars, so it's packed in the day and near empty in the night, and St Mary's Street which is full of bars and clubs and fast food so it's the other way around.

I wasn't allowed in a club because apparently I was under age, and they took my I.D off me saying it was someone else's but it was mine, and said I had to ring in the morning and they would mail it to me, so I walked off pissed off and all my mates were in the club.

I made the dumb mistake of walking down Queen Street alone, it was literally empty, and as I was walking some kid came up to me and said "got any money mate?" I said "nope none mate sorry " and he came right up in my face and said "give me your ****ing money " i said "please buddy I ain't got anything" and pulled like a bit of small change and a £20 (aorund $40) note was visibile so he said "give me that now or ur getting it" and his shoulder moved as if he was gonna swing for me so I elbowed him in the chin and dropped him and he was bleeding and his friend looked so shocked lmao you could tell they do it all the time and no one does anything. Anyway there was five including the one on the floor so the four were chasing me and I turned and swung wildly with the worst punch I've ever thrown but it dropped another one and after running a bit more I had to sort of dodge a bin and another one was right behind me and would have caught me so I turned and dump tackled him but the fourth dude and the fifth one I originally elbowed caught up to me and caught me on the lip and the back of the head, took the £20 and sprant like little bitches. Luckily some dudes on bmxes saw everything and hit a few of them aswell but didn't manage to get my money back and another dude who saw everything paid for my taxi home.

I dunno why I'm telling you this in so much detail, but I've been doing martial arts for about 18 months and this was my first real self defense situation so I just wanted to know did I do the right thing? Or should I have just run ? I'm pretty proud I dropped three out of five but they still got my money so maybe that doesn't really mean anything =\


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## terryl965 (Jun 8, 2008)

Should have gave them your twenty and walked away without the beating, In the end the result was the same.


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## Drac (Jun 8, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Should have gave them your twenty and walked away without the beating, In the end the result was the same.


 
I must agree.


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## newmartialartist (Jun 8, 2008)

Giving them your money probably would have been the best idea.  What art do you train in by the way?


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## KenpoTex (Jun 8, 2008)

It's easy to play "shoulda/coulda/woulda" when we have the benefit of looking at a situation in hindsight.

AFAIC, you're alive and more-or-less unharmed, that's all that counts.


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## kenpofighter (Jun 8, 2008)

I think you should have gave them the money.  What it just _one _of them had a gun or a knife? Your life can't be replaced but money can!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 8, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> It's easy to play "shoulda/coulda/woulda" when we have the benefit of looking at a situation in hindsight.
> 
> AFAIC, you're alive and more-or-less unharmed, that's all that counts.


 
Bottom line the above is what matters.


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 8, 2008)

Paul,

Pitty you arn't in Texas. Here you can stand your ground if you are where you can legaly go and you did not provoke the argument (and mugging sure isn't a provoked argument!)

To me, you decision to run was the right one. No guarantee they would have took your 20 pounds and just said, "MORE"! And if you didn't have more they would have all beaten you, maybe just for the fun of it.

I suggest if possible, next time (if there is a next time) look for a handy rock, brick, bottle, or car antenne to use as a weapon. That and maybe planning out your route home in advance to get the safeist route home.

Still, you are in one piece. And that's the main thing.

Deaf


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## Whitebelt (Jun 8, 2008)

Well Paul I'm glad your OK but I'd suggest not going it alone in QueenStreet at night again, you neven know, next time they might have a knife.
P.S Queen Street and the big park-ish area by the institute of spot have been surveyed the most dangerous places in cardiff


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## MA-Caver (Jun 8, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Should have gave them your twenty and walked away without the beating, In the end the result was the same.



You were in a 5 against 1, drunk, pissed off and these guys "had done it before". You were in over your head fella. But you were damned lucky not to have been killed.
You and your mates should've stayed at home to do your drinking, called up some girls you knew, put on some tunes and just have a quiet little party right there. 
Plus, I gotta wonder what kind of mates are they that if even *one* of the group can't get in because of one thing or another that they just leave him alone... too bad, we'll meet up with you later and tell you about it? 
Lookit what happened to you. 

Being drunk isn't the best time to see if 18 months of MA training is going to pay off. 

Hope you learn something from this. Hope you realize everything that happened. 
I'm sorry it happened to you, but I am glad that you at least came out ALIVE.  On other streets in other parts of the world... you'd probably be dead.


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## Tez3 (Jun 8, 2008)

Whitebelt said:


> Well Paul I'm glad your OK but I'd suggest not going it alone in QueenStreet at night again, you neven know, next time they might have a knife.
> P.S Queen Street and the big park-ish area by the institute of spot have been surveyed the most dangerous places in cardiff


 

Got to agree with this, we did a fight night in the Coal Exchange a few years back, there were more fights in the streets outside than in the hall. Cardiff at night is a scary place to be alone in at night.
I'm glad you're okay though but do take the advice offer in the previous posts and don't try this again! Justified self defence is one thing but against a gang it can be you being in the right legally but dead.

who do you train with down there?


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## Omar B (Jun 8, 2008)

I hate hearing crap like this. I hang out at my friend's bar or at home with my friends where we can get as wild (chicks, whiskey and a 3 bedroom house) as we want or as mild (Stargate/Battlestar Galactica night anyone?) as we wish.  Actually, the picture in my avatare is from the bar.

I gotta say man, you got out safe and that's the main thing to focus on.  Always try to avoid the confrontation, ALWAYS.  Wear clothes and shoes you can move well in if you need to fight or run.  I always wear combat boots and jeans as an example.

A lot of self defence has nothing to do with fighting.  It's about awareness, non violent confluct resolution (talking) and knowing where to be.  BUt I bet you'll be working extra had in the dojo now huh?


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## MBuzzy (Jun 8, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Should have gave them your twenty and walked away without the beating, In the end the result was the same.


 
I'm on board, especially without knowing whether they were armed or not.  Its good that you got away ok though.


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## Paul-M (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks guys, if it happened again I would definitely run, I just couldn't believe how he just came up to me casually like that and wanted to hit him lol. Bad attitude I know, but at least I learned from it..


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## MA-Caver (Jun 8, 2008)

Paul-M said:


> Thanks guys, if it happened again I would definitely run, I just couldn't believe how he just came up to me casually like that and wanted to hit him lol. Bad attitude I know, but at least I learned from it..


That you learned from it is good. Pray tell, WHAT did you learn? 
Also what did your mates say when you told them? 

You still haven't told us what art you're studying :uhyeah: inquiring minds wanna know.


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## Paul-M (Jun 8, 2008)

Well mainly never to go anywhere in town alone at night, and if it happens again to just let them take what they want, or run if possible.

I train in Shaolin Nam Pai Chuan (www.cardiffcentralkungfu.org.uk) but I also cross train in boxing and jiu jitsu, although not that often.


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## Omar B (Jun 8, 2008)

Only fight when there is no other option man.  There are weird legalities about being a martial artist that can actually get you sued in some places for beating your attacker to savagly.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 8, 2008)

Don't even give 'em anything , don't even stop to pull out any money just split. _Hard._

The longer you stay in their presence the worse your chances of escaping unscathed get( who knows what the other 4 may have been maneuvering around to do while the "mouth" of the group was distracting you). Good thing they were unprepared for a resisting mark.

If they chase, the one good thing is they won't chase all at the same speed, they'll string out in a line so if they catch up you may get to nail the closest real good and keep going before the rest catch up, and keep distance that way.

If you are trapped in the midst of all of them, pick either A) the weakest looking one in the circle or B) the one acting as "Mouth", and go for THAT one and get out of that circle.

If you cannot escape the circle or are forced onto the ground it is killing time because the "boot party" is where 90-plus percent of all unarmed homicides occur. If you have not picked up techniques which are high-percentage for this kind of threat, pick some up.

Better than all this would be to give up drinking and nightclubs, or at least confine drinking to a safe location where you know you'll be spending that night and not going out.


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## KenpoTex (Jun 8, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Don't even give em anything , don't even stop to pull out any money just split. _Hard._
> 
> The longer you stay in their presence the worse your chances of escaping unscathed get( who knows what the other 4 may have been maneuvering around to do while the "mouth" of the group was distracting you). Good thing they were unprepared for a resisting mark.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed, with slight modification of the part I bolded.  If you are dealing with multiples, it should be deadly force from the beginning due to the disparity of force.

Overall, I can't really say that I fault the actions of the OP.  Who's to say that his willingness to engage didn't save him from worse damage?  Aggressiveness is not a trait to be discouraged, just applied with discretion.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 8, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Agreed, with slight modification of the part I bolded. If you are dealing with multiples, it should be deadly force from the beginning due to the disparity of force.
> 
> Overall, I can't really say that I fault the actions of the OP. Who's to say that his willingness to engage didn't save him from worse damage? Aggressiveness is not a trait to be discouraged, just applied with discretion.


 

Exactly. If *you* don't know why "they" shouldn't mess with you, how will "they"?


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## Kacey (Jun 8, 2008)

You were there; we weren't.  You were in the situation and had the chance to assess it; we didn't.  Nonetheless, given the option, I will always avoid situations where such things might happen whenever possible; when not possible to avoid such a situation, or when my foresight fails, I will leave as soon as possible.  Money and possessions can be replaced - so if I need to cough up either one as a means of facilitating my exit, I will; luckily for you, money was _all_ you lost.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 8, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Agreed, with slight modification of the part I bolded.  If you are dealing with multiples, it should be deadly force from the beginning due to the disparity of force.
> 
> Overall, I can't really say that I fault the actions of the OP.  Who's to say that his willingness to engage didn't save him from worse damage?  Aggressiveness is not a trait to be discouraged, just applied with discretion.


Well you gotta also remember that he was admittedly drunk at the time. Judgment, eye-hand, muscle control, accuracy, strength are all impaired at this moment. Much more so than if he had only 1 drink and was feeling a pleasant buzz as it were from it. 

To me a good MA-ist knows their limit and sticks to it, a good MA-ist knows their limit and stays just under it for expecting the unexpected. You can still have a good time with the buds without being drunk. 
If you're wanting to get drunk, then do it at home or in a much safer environment than a bad street with a bad reputation. Common sense should prevail here.


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## Ahriman (Jun 8, 2008)

Well, I'm a slow runner. And I'd surely hate to hear that some thugs I ran away from attacked someone else who couldn't run. So running is not really on my list._ (especially as you can't really run faster than a bullet - or a thrown knife for that. Even if the knife doesn't hit with the point, a quickly moving hard object colliding with the back of your head is not the best thing in the world and surely affects your running speed)_ Being aware, avoiding bad places, practising communication skills, being almost always armed, not being drunk in a public area and recognising "must comply or I really die" situations *are* on that list.
If you aren't sure that you can settle things, it's better to comply. Even if your cooperation is a method to make them lower their guards. If they are armed with anything do what you want to do with much, much, MUCH care. You can survive a punch to the head, you have much lower chances of survival if you get hit by a knife or a heavier/well-swung stick.
...
If you are drunk, you most likely won't be able to properly settle things no matter how low their guards are. Damn, I nearly broke my wrist in a drunken training fight due to serious fist misalignment - which is *very* scary as when NOT drunk I can dish 1.5 mm steel plates with my fist for about a hour without any problems other than bleeding.



Bottom line. Avoid problems as much as you can. If you know that you are drunk and alone in a bad area, call someone to pick you up. It's not weakness or anything - you can't be lucky at all times and in this case it was luck above all else. As I've said it elsewhere having unarmed attackers is luck, nothing else.
...
Edited to add: joining the "never get to the ground" group.


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## Omar B (Jun 8, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Don't even give 'em anything , don't even stop to pull out any money just split. _Hard._
> 
> The longer you stay in their presence the worse your chances of escaping unscathed get( who knows what the other 4 may have been maneuvering around to do while the "mouth" of the group was distracting you). Good thing they were unprepared for a resisting mark.
> 
> ...



Quoted for truth!


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## KenpoTex (Jun 8, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Well you gotta also remember that he was admittedly drunk at the time. Judgment, eye-hand, muscle control, accuracy, strength are all impaired at this moment. Much more so than if he had only 1 drink and was feeling a pleasant buzz as it were from it.
> 
> To me a good MA-ist knows their limit and sticks to it, a good MA-ist knows their limit and stays just under it for expecting the unexpected. You can still have a good time with the buds without being drunk.
> If you're wanting to get drunk, then do it at home or in a much safer environment than a bad street with a bad reputation. Common sense should prevail here.


Did he say he was actually drunk when the incident ocurred?  Regardless, your point is well taken.  I don't often drink and if I'm doing it in public, I don't drink more than one or two for this very reason.  I don't want to impair my ability to fight, drive, or think clearly if an incident such as this happens.


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## chinto (Jun 8, 2008)

Paul-M said:


> It's 10:21 A.M here in the UK and the first thing I thought when I woke up was I gotta put this on Martialtalk lol.
> 
> Still a bit drunk though so bare with me lol.
> 
> ...


multiple attackers like that, I would have looked to cripple the first as badly as I could .. preferably very spectacularly.. at least after the elbow I would have  stomped his nuts!  I consider any such confrontation to be a deadly force issue. there are 5 of them, and they are committing a felony.. here in the USA or there in the UK. I would say a strong arm robbery by 5 on one is a deadly serious situation, and so would have looked to put one down very hard and spectacularly with the idea that the other 4 might decide it was not worth it... and if they did think it worth it, that number 1 there would not be a threat any more.


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## Logan (Jun 9, 2008)

In a self-defence situation things happen in an unexpected and often unpredicted manner. The fact that you reacted at all is a good sign - many martial artists, particularly as they get higer grades, would freeze in a similar situation because they delude themselves in their training. So kudos to you for that.

You said something like "the worst punch I have ever thrown" or similar. That should highlight to you the effect that hormones, fear and everything can have on your technical abilities. Not to digress to a self-defense rant but you have to keep it simple, execute it quick. All those combination things people do at gradings are about as useful as.....well you can guess.

Unless we had CCTV footage or similar nobody can really comment that you did the right thing or not. You are alive and relatively unscathed, so that's the main thing. If it were me, I would just trust my gut. If someone enters my comfort zone, then I would probably assume it is on and react accordingly. However, if you walk in a dangerous area, on your own and  drunk, then you might not be so lucky next time.


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## Grenadier (Jun 9, 2008)

People can't read each other's minds, plain and simple.  You have no idea what they were thinking, or whether they were the type who would have taken your money, and then killed you.  

In those cases, you do what you need to do to save yourself.  It's better to overestimate the danger of the situation, and fight for your own survival, than to underestimate the danger, and end up dead.  

You're still alive, you still have a roof over your head, electricity power your computer, food in your refrigerator, petrol in your vehicle, and an intact body, so I doubt that this was the worst night of your life.


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