# Isshin Shorinji Ryu?



## pknox (Aug 18, 2003)

Has anyone ever heard of this?  My understanding is that it is a combination of Isshin Ryu and Shorinji Ryu (i.e. katas from both systems).  A Sensei Ralph Chirico teaches it here in NJ, and I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of him or the style.


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## arnisador (Aug 18, 2003)

It's new to me!


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## TimoS (Sep 11, 2003)

I wonder what additional value is this kind of mix supposed to give ? I mean, Isshin ryu itself is, as I've understood it, a "mix" of Shorin and Goju ryu and contains many kata from these both systems. Most Shorinji and Shorin karate styles trace their lineage to Kyan sensei, as does Isshin ryu. So unless this Shorinji is of some totally unrelated lineage, I personally fail to see any sense in this kind of mixing


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## pknox (Sep 11, 2003)

That's basically the conclusion I came to as well.  Pretty much the only difference is that while straight Isshin has "some" Shorin and some Goju (plus 1 Isshin ryu), the Shorin side contains more kata than what is represented as Shorin in Isshin Ryu.  Pretty much Isshin Shorinji Ryu is Isshin Ryu with a few more Shorin Ryu katas added in, including a couple of more weapons katas.  No change in philosophy or technical concepts.  I don't see a real value in the mix either.


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## Dragon Fire Dad (Apr 28, 2007)

I am a student of Isshin Shorinji Ryu.  My dojo is the Dragon Fire Academy of Martial Arts in Aurora IL.  My Sensei is Sensei Hercul Brown He along with Sensei Ken Darby Run our school.  We have close to a dozen black belts and probably somewhere around 50 plus students.

There are several schools in our area I think 5 within about a 50 mile radius here in Illinois.  As I understand it this style also has many schools on the east coast several in NJ and a few out west as well.

I am attaching a link to a sister school of ours web site that should clear up any confusion on the history and origin of our style.

This is the link directly to the history page:

http://www.dojodynamics.com/history.html

I am kind of a history buff so I have also assembled some photos and other documents about the history of Isshin Shorinji Ryu if you are interested.

I look forward to a great forum


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## TimoS (May 3, 2007)

Dragon Fire Dad said:


> I am attaching a link to a sister school of ours web site that should clear up any confusion on the history and origin of our style.



Well, that was interesting. Quite a lot of errors in there and I don't mean just the names being misspelled... Just one example: Kyan Chotoku's style was not Kobayashi ryu. The Kobayashi branch of the Shorin tree is of totally different lineage, the Itosu lineage.


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## chinto01 (May 4, 2007)

TimoS said:


> Well, that was interesting. Quite a lot of errors in there and I don't mean just the names being misspelled... Just one example: Kyan Chotoku's style was not Kobayashi ryu. The Kobayashi branch of the Shorin tree is of totally different lineage, the Itosu lineage.



Not to start any arguements here but I also have to agree with the amount of errors in the history end of things. If you would like some help I would be more than happy to give you some of the historical information that I have accumulated over the years.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob


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## Dragon Fire Dad (Aug 18, 2008)

Please check out our website:


DragonFireAurora.com

It is still under construction but please give info and advice.

DragonFireGuy@mac.com


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## TimoS (Aug 18, 2008)

Dragon Fire Dad said:


> It is still under construction but please give info and advice.


To be quite honest, your history section is so full of mistakes, that it is just about quite useless!

Just name a few: 


Kanryo Higaonna was _not_ a student of Matsumura
Chojun Miyagi was _not_ a student of Anko Itosu
Chotoku Kyan did _not_ teach Kobayashi ryu
There are many, many other mistakes in there, but I'm not going to into those


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## Brian S (Aug 18, 2008)

Dragon Fire Dad said:


> Please check out our website:
> 
> 
> DragonFireAurora.com
> ...


 

 Hard to believe what can be listed as fact on the internet. Did you say you were a history buff? Maybe you should do your own research instead of listening to others perceived history.

 People in martial arts have a funny way of meddling in history to suit their own needs.


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## twendkata71 (Aug 18, 2008)

The style names Kobayashi ryu, Shobayashi ryu and matsubayashi ryu were not formulated until after Kyan Chotoku's passing. 
And as you stated. Miyagi Chojun was never a student of  Itosu Anko, But Mabuni Kenwa was a student of both Itosu Anko and Hiagoanna Kanryo.  
Now many of these masters were friends and may have exchanged knowledge.  
History many times has a way of getting a bit distorted when it crosses the ocean. Or sometimes these people just get their facts wrong and in some cases they are told this by a reliable sorce and believe it to be true. 
You have some Taekwondo and Tangsoo do people that swear up and down that these arts do not come from Japanese karate. But, in part they do. Some Japanese believe that karate is a totally Japanese art, and  even that it was practiced by the samurai, which is totally false.


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## punisher73 (Aug 18, 2008)

History mistakes aside...

What benefits do you feel you get by adding some of the shorinji ryu katas into your training?  Does it maintain the upper/lower body exercises and 8 katas of Isshin ryu?

I know that Tatsuo didn't like certain traditional katas and only picked out certain techniques to include in his system.  What katas specifically are included?


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## MBuzzy (Aug 19, 2008)

[playnice]Craig Mills[/playnice]


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## punisher73 (Aug 26, 2008)

I actually came across these video clips of isshin shorinji on youtube looking for something else.

Their version of Sanchin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po9Yq0M_3PE&feature=related

Their version of Seiuchin:




 
Their version of Chinto:




 
Not sure, but I think Sunsu:




 
Clip of their basics:




 
It says the clips are performed by Soke Robert Murphy.  I know you shouldn't completely judge a person by an online video clip, but I swear there are a couple spots when he just stops for about 3-5 seconds that I had to wonder if he forgot what he was doing.


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## TimoS (Aug 26, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> It says the clips are performed by Soke Robert Murphy.  I know you shouldn't completely judge a person by an online video clip, but I swear there are a couple spots when he just stops for about 3-5 seconds that I had to wonder if he forgot what he was doing.


Very interesting videos. Is the tempo of the kata seen on these videos typical of Isshin Shorinji ryu or are they purposefully done in this way for these videos?


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## hogstooth (Aug 27, 2008)

No. Never heard of it.


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## MartialWar (Nov 24, 2008)

What sup guys.  I am new to this site.  I was a student of Soke Murphy.  If you have any questions I can try and answer if I can.

The videos you see of Soke Murphy doing form are not the way he usually performed although he performed them different ways.  As I understand it he had a real bad knee at the time.


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## Bill Walter (Apr 6, 2010)

pknox said:


> Has anyone ever heard of this? My understanding is that it is a combination of Isshin Ryu and Shorinji Ryu (i.e. katas from both systems). A Sensei Ralph Chirico teaches it here in NJ, and I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of him or the style.


 


TimoS said:


> I wonder what additional value is this kind of mix supposed to give ? I mean, Isshin ryu itself is, as I've understood it, a "mix" of Shorin and Goju ryu and contains many kata from these both systems. Most Shorinji and Shorin karate styles trace their lineage to Kyan sensei, as does Isshin ryu. So unless this Shorinji is of some totally unrelated lineage, I personally fail to see any sense in this kind of mixing


 
I studied "*Isshin Shorinji Ryu Okinawa Te*" back in the early 70's, under Sensei Robert Murphy in Parsippany (I think), NJ.  My focus has been Aikido over most of my life so I can't really address the ins and outs of all the styles of Karate.  What I can say is; studying under Sensei Murphy was a gift!  The man could do things that to this day I can't even fathom.  I don't know if Sensei Ralph Chinico is able to pass on what Sensei Murphy did and had, but why miss the opportunity to explore it and find out.  

As far as what additional value there is in mixing several systems; there may or may not be certain tactical advantages depending on the specific situation.  The usual reason that a martial art practitioner comes up with his own system (and I believe this to be true in Robert Murphy's case) is through their diverse studies they come to a realization of some sort that is beyond anything they have been taught.  Being a man of honor and integrity, he can no longer say that he is teaching this or that, because neither would be true.  Often what is discovered is so subtle and so profound and life altering that he feels compelled to give it to others.  So he tries to find a way to give the gift that he discovered.  This is usually done by teaching the parts of what he learned that led him to this new awareness.  Everything needs a name so he comes up with one that hopefully expresses what he is doing, or how he got there.  

Most people fail at this and their revelation dies with them.  Robert Murphy touched my life in a meaningful and important way.  I can not put into words what this is.  I hope and suspect that Soke Robert Murphy succeeded in doing what he set out to do.


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