# What are the Best, Quick Fight Stoppers?



## DavyKOTWF (Aug 20, 2018)

I think I know Bruce liked the finger jab/thrust into the eyes.  Bil Gee?
He supposedly tried this against Jack Man Wong.
Maybe a forward foot front snap kick into the stomach or jewels?
Anything else?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 20, 2018)

A gun.


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 20, 2018)

Another troll.  You're ignored.  Any serious, constructive responses?


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## Martial D (Aug 20, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> Another troll.  You're ignored.  Any serious, constructive responses?


Sure. I have one.

Go train something, instead of making all these inane 'what if' threads that make you look greener than a fresh cut lawn. You can't have a meaningful discussion without context, which you plainly lack.


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## CB Jones (Aug 20, 2018)

The creation of Jones-itsu-who-hit-u

Kro-Bar from K-mart


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 20, 2018)

Too many SA's around here.  Out.


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## Headhunter (Aug 20, 2018)

"I THINK I know Bruce liked it"

"SUPPOSEDLY he used it"

Not to sure on much are you.

My advice is stop worrying about what Bruce Lee did of what ip Man did. Those guys are dead focus on yourself. Just because Bruce Lee used a move doesn't mean it's good for you. Focus more on your own training and not living in the past. Ironically you're doing exactly the kind of thing Bruce Lee hated and going completely against what he envisioned for martial arts


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## Headhunter (Aug 20, 2018)

Also there's no such thing as a fight stopper. Any move has the potential
 To stop someone but it could also not do any damage at all. Groins kick do work yes but not always. People who are drugged up or just full of adrenalin can take a lot and frankly a front kick to the stomach is very rarely going to stop someone dead at all. A front kicks mainly for pushing them away from you and yeah it can hurt but again I doubt it'd stop a fully aggressive attacker


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## Headhunter (Aug 20, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> Too many SA's around here.  Out.


I don't even know what ab SA is tbh.
Thing is here everyone is pretty experienced in martial arts and frankly don't over worship people like Bruce Lee. Respect them yes but frankly there's people on this forum who are higher level wing chun guys than Bruce Lee.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 20, 2018)

I don't think that there is any such thing. I believe that I have prevented/stopped several conflicts in the last decade with my voice, so I could list that. A cop I know has stories about tasers not working on people who are high on PCP and certainly my voice wouldn't have handled it either, nor probably a finger in the eye. So what stops one person, will not necessarily stop another person.

People process pain differently. People commit assault/harassment or otherwise get into fights for different reasons. You can, to a degree, learn to recognize what you are dealing with and adapt your response to increase your chances of success, but unless it's your job and you get to practice it 40+ hours/week, I don't think most people can train this expertise beyond a certain point.

Situational awareness, avoidance, de-escallation are all critical/VITAL self defense capabilities. You asked about fighting, which implies that we're starting at the point of physical conflict. What stops one person vs the next one at that point, is highly variable from my perspective. That's why it takes time, training, and experience.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 20, 2018)

A hay-maker to the back of the head can be very effective finish move.


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## Martial D (Aug 20, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> "I THINK I know Bruce liked it"
> 
> "SUPPOSEDLY he used it"
> 
> ...


Or at least fixate on someone that was a fighter rather than a movie star choreographer. Id rather have a soldier teach me gun tactics than Keanu Reeves, regardless of how high his kill count was in John Wick.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 20, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I don't even know what ab SA is tbh.
> Thing is here everyone is pretty experienced in martial arts and frankly don't over worship people like Bruce Lee. Respect them yes but frankly there's people on this forum who are higher level wing chun guys than Bruce Lee.


Pretty sure smart ***


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## drop bear (Aug 20, 2018)

Straight punches pretty much.

If you can get that right with good timing and on target you will win fights against inexperienced guys.

Works in the ring. Works on the street and mechanically makes sense. 

And it is a method that is used by champion fighters.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 20, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Straight punches pretty much.


If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.

The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.

IMO, when you feel threaten, a "45 degree downward hay-maker" can knock down everything coming toward your face.

Here is an example.


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## drop bear (Aug 20, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...



He was knocked out by a straight right.


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## Martial D (Aug 20, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that this video shows circular vs straight line movements so much as the importance of movement and timing.

With that said if all else is equal, the straight punch gets there first.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 21, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...



I don't know who that guy is, but his Wing Chun is terrible. Barely there, in fact. This video is evidence that he got clocked by that other guy, nothing more.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> I don't know who that guy is, but his Wing Chun is terrible. Barely there, in fact. This video is evidence that he got clocked by that other guy, nothing more.


hard to know from the video.  His wing chun might be excellent in class, sparring with his training partners.  

This kind of thing is pretty typical in any kind of skill development when you ask someone to apply skills and realize the difference between comprehension and application.  It is very predictable.  Developmentally, the wc guy in the video will react in one of two ways.  Either he will excuse his performance and rationalize it away.  Or he will recognize the exposed gap and improve.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 21, 2018)

...or he trains better to begin with.


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## jobo (Aug 21, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Or at least fixate on someone that was a fighter rather than a movie star choreographer. Id rather have a soldier teach me gun tactics than Keanu Reeves, regardless of how high his kill count was in John Wick.





Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...


Why are all such contests seemingly of physically unequal combatants, bigger guy with longer reach knocks older smaller guy over, is not headline news,

It was more or less impossible for the wing chin guy to land a punch, such was the reach disadvantage, there's only really one likely out come, in that situation,


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## DanT (Aug 21, 2018)

Lead hook to the jaw is the most common quick fight ender and was always my go-to when people are running their mouth and escalating a situation.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> ...or he trains better to begin with.


This isn't about the quality of the training, although that's another factor.  It's about the inherent limitation of all training, good, better, or otherwise.


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## pdg (Aug 21, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...



A haymaker isn't a good reliable move for anything really.

Sure it's got power, but it gets that from momentum. It takes ages.

A straight punch is fast, if someone knows how to throw one you're likely hit before you realise.

A haymaker by itself - once it starts you've got time to go have a cup of tea, a cigarette, watch a bit of youtube, have a nap - and then block or move.


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## Martial D (Aug 21, 2018)

pdg said:


> A haymaker isn't a good reliable move for anything really.
> 
> Sure it's got power, but it gets that from momentum. It takes ages.
> 
> ...



Also..a haymaker? isnt that what unskilled cowboys use for saloon fights?

If we are talking straight lines vs circular lines, why not compare something useful like a proper hook?(which is still a beat slower than a straight, but still...)


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 21, 2018)

pdg said:


> A haymaker isn't a good reliable move for anything really.
> 
> Sure it's got power, but it gets that from momentum. It takes ages.
> 
> ...





Martial D said:


> Also..a haymaker? isnt that what unskilled cowboys use for saloon fights?
> 
> If we are talking straight lines vs circular lines, why not compare something useful like a proper hook?(which is still a beat slower than a straight, but still...)



Only because i remember this exact conversation occurring a while back...when he says haymaker, hes referring to a punch that no one else would call or consider a haymaker.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 21, 2018)

Steve said:


> This isn't about the quality of the training, although that's another factor.  It's about the inherent limitation of all training, good, better, or otherwise.



See I thought it was about "what is your best one move fight ender?" Which I don't think is a very good question and my response explained why. Then inexplicably KFW posted a YouTube video of two guys who we know nothing about sparring and one getting knocked out. His position is that a haymaker beats and wing chun straight punch ... which exactly no one was talking about. I watching that video and it seems to be in Asia and someone who seems to not be Asian and seems not to have first hand knowledge of the fighters commentated over it and kept referring to this guy as a "wing chun master" and a "sifu". My take is that this guy is neither. I'm not sure what either of their backgrounds is or what was going on here, but I could fight critique it too. His hands were down. I saw no evidence of any decernable footwork or a stance. He was managing range completely wrong for what he was trying to do and it didn't even look like he was throwing Wing Chun punches, just straight punches. Now we're explaining that away by saying "all Wing Chun people look like that when they try to fight." I have a 2nd year student who routinely does better than that. I'm not claiming superiority and never do, but these YouTube videos are just stupid. 

And, NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT WING CHUN VS ANYTHING. Read the OP and if you don't like the question and don't want to participate, then walk away from it. I regret having posted to this thread, but why turn this into a WC vs discussion? Don't we have enough of those already?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Only because i remember this exact conversation occurring a while back...when he says haymaker, hes referring to a punch that no one else would call or consider a haymaker.


This the way that I will use a hay-maker. Here is an example that you can use it for defense. You can use it to protect your center from outside in. If you can use it well, there is no way that your opponent can come in close to you.


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## pdg (Aug 21, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Only because i remember this exact conversation occurring a while back...when he says haymaker, hes referring to a punch that no one else would call or consider a haymaker.



Yeah, I remembered that, just not who...

I was even involved in one of the discussions.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> This the way that I will use a hay-maker. Here is an example that you can use it for defense. You can use it to protect your center from outside in. If you can use it well, there is no way that your opponent can come in close to you.



And also yeah.

That's not a haymaker.

Here you go, this is what everyone else in the world calls a haymaker - skip to 16 seconds if you can't wait that long.


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## Martial D (Aug 21, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This the way that I will use a hay-maker. Here is an example that you can use it for defense. You can use it to protect your center from outside in. If you can use it well, there is no way that your opponent can come in close to you.


That is not a haymaker punch though.

A haymaker is so named because it's a straight armed round punch that sort of looks like you are trying to scythe down tall grass, hence 'making hay'


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 21, 2018)

pdg said:


> this is what everyone else in the world calls a haymaker - skip to 16 seconds if you can't wait that long.


This remind me a story. A father drew a short line on the ground and told his son that it's a "1". The father then drew a large line and asked his son what it was. The son said, "I don't know." The father said, "It's still a 1". The son then said, "How come suddenly 1 has grown so big?"

Does hay-maker always have to travel that much distance?

This is what I'll call a "hay-maker". You use spinning footwork to move yourself out of your opponent's striking path. You then hit on the side (or back) of your opponent's head.


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## Martial D (Aug 21, 2018)

pdg said:


> Yeah, I remembered that, just not who...
> 
> I was even involved in one of the discussions.
> 
> ...



Lol. That video...

That isn't really a haymaker either, it's more of a straight right with an exagerated wind up. If that were following a circular line that response wouldn't really work as he described.  Also never seen anyone move fast enough to sidestep a punch and catch a over under from behind, but ok.

Anyway this has nothing to do with anything. Carry on.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> See I thought it was about "what is your best one move fight ender?" Which I don't think is a very good question and my response explained why. Then inexplicably KFW posted a YouTube video of two guys who we know nothing about sparring and one getting knocked out. His position is that a haymaker beats and wing chun straight punch ... which exactly no one was talking about. I watching that video and it seems to be in Asia and someone who seems to not be Asian and seems not to have first hand knowledge of the fighters commentated over it and kept referring to this guy as a "wing chun master" and a "sifu". My take is that this guy is neither. I'm not sure what either of their backgrounds is or what was going on here, but I could fight critique it too. His hands were down. I saw no evidence of any decernable footwork or a stance. He was managing range completely wrong for what he was trying to do and it didn't even look like he was throwing Wing Chun punches, just straight punches. Now we're explaining that away by saying "all Wing Chun people look like that when they try to fight." I have a 2nd year student who routinely does better than that. I'm not claiming superiority and never do, but these YouTube videos are just stupid.
> 
> And, NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT WING CHUN VS ANYTHING. Read the OP and if you don't like the question and don't want to participate, then walk away from it. I regret having posted to this thread, but why turn this into a WC vs discussion? Don't we have enough of those already?


I think you're projecting a lot of stuff into my posts that aren't there . you said his wing chun was terrible . I said you can't tell one way or the other from the video .  then i explained why I think that.  

In fact, my last post was to clarify that my point was not about the quality or nature of the training.  I didn't mention wc at all.  My point was about knowing how to do things vs doing things.


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## pdg (Aug 21, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Does hay-maker always have to travel that much distance?
> 
> This is what I'll call a "hay-maker". You use spinning footwork to move yourself out of your opponent's striking path. You then hit on the side (or back) of your opponent's head.



Apart from the twirling, that's more like just a hook.

As said, a haymaker gets it's name from the movement, like scything long grass.

I have a scythe, and it doesn't work with small movements - you can't make hay with small cuts (it's hugely inefficient to try to operate a scythe in that manner).

Want smaller swings? Use a riphook.

Ergo, a smaller movement isn't a haymaker, it's a hook.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 21, 2018)

Steve said:


> I think you're projecting a lot of stuff into my posts that aren't there . you said his wing chun was terrible . I said you can't tell one way or the other from the video .  then i explained why I think that.
> 
> In fact, my last post was to clarify that my point was not about the quality or nature of the training.  I didn't mention wc at all.  My point was about knowing how to do things vs doing things.



Fair enough. Peace. 

I was really reacting to why was this video even relevant to this thread in the first place? Just need to walk away for a while.


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## Steve (Aug 21, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> Fair enough. Peace.
> 
> I was really reacting to why was this video even relevant to this thread in the first place? Just need to walk away for a while.


No worries.


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## Hanzou (Aug 21, 2018)

Chokes stop fights real fast.


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## Martial D (Aug 21, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> Fair enough. Peace.
> 
> I was really reacting to why was this video even relevant to this thread in the first place? Just need to walk away for a while.


I think it was just meant to illustrate circular punches beating straight punches .I think the fact it was a WC guy was incidental.


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## Buka (Aug 22, 2018)

pdg said:


> Yeah, I remembered that, just not who...
> 
> I was even involved in one of the discussions.
> 
> ...



The description under that vid says "Basic Self Defense: The haymaker is a big overhand punch that untrained fighters use to knock out their opponent."

That guy in the red got one thing right, he's an untrained fighter.


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## FriedRice (Aug 27, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> I think I know Bruce liked the finger jab/thrust into the eyes.  Bil Gee?
> He supposedly tried this against Jack Man Wong.



Didn't Bruce Lee fail and ran out of town after this fight.....when Jack Man Wong challenged him to a 2nd fight to settle the dispute as to who won the 1st......in public with witnesses instead of behind closed doors like the 1st fight?  Wong even place an ad in the local Chinese newspaper challenging Bruce.


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## Tames D (Aug 28, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> A gun.


I thought this was a damn good answer.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 28, 2018)

Tames D said:


> I thought this was a damn good answer.


It's honestly the best fight stopper I know of.


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## Buka (Aug 28, 2018)

If it’s in your whealhouse, I’ve always liked uppercut, head butt...whatever. (Head butt and uppercut being interchangeable)


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## Martial D (Aug 28, 2018)

Buka said:


> If it’s in your whealhouse, I’ve always liked uppercut, head butt...whatever. (Head butt and uppercut being interchangeable)


I love me some headbutt.

I was about 20 when me and a buddy both fake head-butted each other at the same time and collided. He got a giant goose egg, and I was fine. It was that day I learned I was a bone head.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 28, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> It's honestly the best fight stopper I know of.



Until they take your entire magazine because they are running on Adrenaline. 


Personally i dislike the concept of headbutting anything unless you really have to.    Your using your most vital area as a weapon its kind of ehh.  (now if you had head armour on and they didnt, go for it)


Ear slaps, chin jabs, throat shots, eye attacks and groin shots work.  And Torches also work as that will blind anyone not wearing heavily tinted glasses at night. (if they are worth anything anyway)   Latter two might work better if adrenaline isnt involved or other drugs.


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## MetalBoar (Aug 28, 2018)

A super secret technique that's worked pretty well for me a couple of time: "Hey friend, I don't have any problem with you so how about I buy you a beer and we forget the whole thing?".


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## SadisticReaper0 (Sep 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> I think I know Bruce liked the finger jab/thrust into the eyes.  Bil Gee?
> He supposedly tried this against Jack Man Wong.
> Maybe a forward foot front snap kick into the stomach or jewels?
> Anything else?



Punch to the throat
Front snap kick to the belly
Rising front kick to the balls
Fingers to the eyes
Submission 
Sweep the leg johnny


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## pdg (Sep 9, 2018)

SadisticReaper0 said:


> Punch to the throat
> Front snap kick to the belly
> Rising front kick to the balls
> Fingers to the eyes
> ...



If you can even manage to apply any of those in a reliable fashion, I think you may be surprised just how little effect they may have against a determined opponent.


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## dvcochran (Sep 9, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If A uses straight punch and B uses hay-maker, my money will be on B.
> 
> The PRO of the hay-maker is it can be a both offense and defense move. If you throw a straight punch toward my face, my hay-maker can not only knock down your punching arm, if you move in fast enough, my hay-maker can hit on the side (or the back) of your head.
> 
> ...


The boxer is experienced, and has a TON of height and reach on the much smaller fighter. Another ridiculously biased video.


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