# practicality of Kempo



## OrangeLeopard (Apr 7, 2005)

Do you believe that the kempo system is very well suited for actual street fights or a practical base for real physical confrontation?

I believe that kempo provides a solid base for evading and agressively defending an attack, especially against common untained moves (i.e. long, full weighted "haymaker" hook punches). Also, most of the drills help provide balance, speed, and reflexes reactive to these types of attacks. I think it way be one of the best ways to train for real fight that is not adrenaline controlled, as long as the moves are understood as pieces and you dont try to complete combinations after every strike (unless ridiculously possible). Your opinion?


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## MisterMike (Apr 7, 2005)

Kempo is a pretty broad term. Some styles are more systematized and others take a more artistic aproach. There's good and bad in everything. From what I have seen, most people teach Kempo to be adaptable to take on modern hand to hand combat.


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## Ray (Apr 7, 2005)

I don't understand the popular conception of street fighters being superior fighters (and I once believed it).  I do understand that, on the street, anything can happen (biting, eye gouges, slamming someone over the head with a brick, etc).

There were gangs in my neighborhood, my older brother was a gang-member and people were scared of him because he was frequently in fights (and gang fights).  It wasn't until I was 28 and taking kenpo lessons that I found out that my older brother wasn't a very good fighter and neither were many of his friends.  

By the same token, not all street fighters are untrained, nor are they all putzes.


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## kenpoworks (Apr 7, 2005)

The term "street fight" seems to be used as a cover all exspression for any situation that happens outside of a Studio or the Competition scenario, by using this term people can instantly add authority to what they are saying, things like " a Roundhouse Kick to the head looks good,but it would'nt work on the street" or (my favourite) " I train my guys to survive on the streets" (huh!), " I'm from the street"..." the stuff I teach is street real"
Some times "Street" seems to bandied about when reassurance is needed by students or instructors to justify what they are doing.
Maybe a new I.D. badge could be created, y'know.. "Instructor"..."Sensei".....Sifu"....."Street Fighter"

Richard


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## MJS (Apr 7, 2005)

I believe that there is something that can be gained from all arts.  Kenpo was and still is my base art, although I have explored many other things that are out there.  

One thing that I think is key to being successfull is making sure that you're keeping your training alive and real.  If you're having your attacker stand like a statue while you do your technique, then you'll be in for a rude awakening if you are facing someone who is really trying to knock your head off.  If your training partner is giving you some resistance, you'll get a much better feeling.  The same can be said for the punch.  Putting a glove on and having him try to hit you will also give you a feeling of someone trying to hit you, but in the event you miss, at least you'll have some protection.  IMO, its much better to make your mistakes and fix them in the training hall, rather than on the street.

So, to answer your question....everything can be effective but its how you are applying it.

Mike


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## Lotus Flower (Apr 7, 2005)

I believe that that is up to how your instructor teaches you.  It seems that some teachers only go through the kata's and preset combinations with their students.  If the instructor has good insight, they'll try to instill scenerios with their students that replicates a fight situation.  IE  Not just left foot forward, half moon in and punch,  Oh, keep your punch straight while I do my technique.
For that matter, it's not just the system but the teacher.  There are no bad students, only lousey teachers.

MPK


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## OrangeLeopard (Apr 7, 2005)

by street fight i mean a fight where adrenaline levels are not controlled (like in sparring or wrestling). In street fights, generally your fight or flight response kicks in and in, and its the street fighter is superior, it is now how well you can handle your knowledge (on both sides) of any training or prior experience and control (or lack thereof). It is these confontations i am inquiring about and questioning the practicality of the kempo system in order to prepare someone for these types of extreme circumstances.


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## Hand Sword (Apr 7, 2005)

OrangeLeopard said:
			
		

> by street fight i mean a fight where adrenaline levels are not controlled (like in sparring or wrestling). In street fights, generally your fight or flight response kicks in and in, and its the street fighter is superior, it is now how well you can handle your knowledge (on both sides) of any training or prior experience and control (or lack thereof). It is these confontations i am inquiring about and questioning the practicality of the kempo system in order to prepare someone for these types of extreme circumstances.


 All the systems could be practical, yes ken/mpo did come from rough, street fighting, areas. You are correct, it's not enough to be good with your techniques, the trainig to apply them while stressed out, tight, and scared is what's important. Mostly street fighters have that advantage. They fight alot, leading to having confidence, and fighting experience. Kempo in it's original form taught back in the day, addressed this, before the watering down process. The theories are sound and techniques are vicious enough to "hang", but, the focus of most of the arts has changed (not all! Please, real practitioners don't be angry!).
Stick with what you're doing, just apply the right focus and applications to your training.
Be safe!


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## Citius (Apr 16, 2005)

As a kenpo student with 8 years experience as a bouncer I can state without hesitation that martial arts in general can greatly increase your ability to defend or subdue an opponent. Most street fights are fought purely on an emotional level. A well-trained martial artist is capable of functioning in a highly controlled emotional state. The greatest danger in any confrontation is when one individual is willing to escalate a physical altercation to the nth degree. Such irrational individuals represent grave danger to any opponent because one never knows whether they are fighting for control or fighting for their life. I have faced many opponents in real world scenarios where a simple controlling technique was sufficient. I have also found that some individuals will continue to attack until they are unconscious. In a rare instance a weapon was introduced and clearly a life or death situation was defined. I think that your capacity to handle the emotional stress of any confrontation combined with martial arts training will greatly increase the likelihood of a positive outcome to any altercation. With regard to your query whether Kenpo has practical application to real street fights I can say yes. I can also state conclusively that many styles are applicable. In my opinion it is not the style that defines the outcome but a combination of several factors including emotional control, skillful and appropriate response to attack, correctly ascertaining the nature of the attack and the physical preparedness of the martial artist.


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## DuneViking (Apr 16, 2005)

As stated above, all arts have value. Further, they were developed for _real_ use. A great bonus is the opportunity to learn to _control the adrenaline_, to see under stress that which may be of value. Practacing and making mistakes in class allows one to learn to adapt without too much damage. 

The line above about telling your 'street' opponent _'oh, wait, you have to do that technique this way'_ is one of our fundamental concepts-you never know what will happen in the real world. Training thus allows one to prepare for every conceivable course of events and to _adapt to the inconceivable_. 

The bottom line I have to add, is that while all arts can help in self-defense, it is the _quality and the effort one puts into training_ that really determines effectiveness.


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## Doc (Apr 17, 2005)

OrangeLeopard said:
			
		

> by street fight i mean a fight where adrenaline levels are not controlled (like in sparring or wrestling). In street fights, generally your fight or flight response kicks in and in, and its the street fighter is superior, it is now how well you can handle your knowledge (on both sides) of any training or prior experience and control (or lack thereof). It is these confontations i am inquiring about and questioning the practicality of the kempo system in order to prepare someone for these types of extreme circumstances.


There is no such thing as "controlled adrenaline." The levels of the chemical dump may vary from situation to situation but exist at equal levels in competition depending upon the circumsatnces.

Your signature is a classic example of how unknowledgeable Bruce Lee was in the arts. You might consider that is what it illiustrates.


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## Doc (Apr 17, 2005)

DuneViking said:
			
		

> As stated above, all arts have value. Further, they were developed for _real_ use. A great bonus is the opportunity to learn to _control the adrenaline_, to see under stress that which may be of value. Practacing and making mistakes in class allows one to learn to adapt without too much damage.


You do not learn to control adrenaline, however you can train to minimize the effects of an adrenal dump. Additionally, all arts were not developed for "real use." The bulk of the Japanese Arts were and are "way" or "do" arts that use "martial" as a theme for discipline and self enlightenment, and not as a application of real world combat tactics. Many other countries as well have arts laden with cultural and nationalistic accouterments that hinder instead of help the process of developing and sustaining realistic skills.


> The bottom line I have to add, is that while all arts can help in self-defense, it is the _quality and the effort one puts into training_ that really determines effectiveness.


No, what determines effectivness is the quality of the instruction relative to the other traits mentioned. A monkey can bang on a piano all day with great zeal, and never learn to play Chopin. Only a highly skilled teacher can insure your instruction and execution will lead to a fully fruitful conclusion. That means he must over see ever bit of your training to insure all is as it should be.

"Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." Ed Parker Sr.


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## Doc (Apr 17, 2005)

Lotus Flower said:
			
		

> There are no bad students, only lousey teachers.
> MPK


Hey you're stealing my stuff.  Well said. Yeah Kenpo,  (depending upon who taught you what), is a street art. Unfortunately most of the "teachers" have no understanding of what street encounters are really like, or how to make techniques work in that environment. After thirty years of law enforcement on the local, state, and now federal level, I can tell you there are a bunch of well known instructors who really have no clue.


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## Han-Mi (Apr 17, 2005)

Thought primarily TKD, I must agree that Kempo is one of the more practical arts for self defense and is more easily applied at the early stages than most others.


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## BlackCatBonz (Apr 17, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Hey you're stealing my stuff.  Well said. Yeah Kenpo, (depending upon who taught you what), is a street art. Unfortunately most of the "teachers" have no understanding of what street encounters are really like, or how to make techniques work in that environment. After thirty years of law enforcement on the local, state, and now federal level, I can tell you there are a bunch of well known instructors who really have no clue.


when i first started in kempo i had no prior training at all. my teacher was a veteran bouncer that didnt believe in any type of protection (except our gi's) and believed that full contact was the only way to learn. this taught me to respect the level of damage that one could do and to protect myself. sometimes sparring classes would lead to rough and tumble fighting, but he was very good at making us realise where we went off track and kept us focused. so to me kempo is very practical.


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