# knife wound pictures



## jarrod

brian's thread on grappling with a knife got me thinking: too often we rely on they violent encounters going the way we think they are supposed to.  i think it's instructive to look at some photos like this from time to time & ask yourself questions.  could you still fight if you incurred this kind of damage?  could you stand to inflict this kind of damage on another human being?

does your training prepare you for this?

***WARNING! VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT!***do not click these links if you have a weak stomach.

http://www.dlsports.com/knife_dangers.html

http://www.pathguy.com/~tdemark/0050.htm

http://www.trauma.org/images/image_library/caecal_evisceration.jpghttp://images.google.com/imgres?img...tbnw=150&prev=/images?q=stab+wound&um=1&hl=en

http://www.itim.nsw.gov.au/images/Stab_wound_with_extruding_bowel.jpg


food for thought.

jf


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## MJS

Well, I second that...those were graphic!

I know that anytime discussions like this come up, some always say that you can't replicate a real fight.  I agree.  I mean, if we did, we'd be short some training partners and probably be locked up somewhere.  However, I think that we can, safely of course, come as close as we can, without the fatal injuries.  

Now, I've never attended Peyton Quinns courses, but from what I've read about them, people say they're well worth the money, and create that mindset that we often face in a real situation.  

I also think that using the right tools is important.  While it may cost you some cash, I would rather spend the extra and get a solid training tool, and put my money on something that may not work.  They're not going to kill you, but the no-lie blades and shock knife are 2 tools, that if used correctly, can make you more aware of what knife defense is/is not going to work.  

The downside to these training tools is that if you do get 'cut', you probably won't react the same way as if it was a real blade.  However, if I had to pick between the rubber training blade and the 2 that I mentioned, I'd go with the other 2.


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## terryl965

Yes those are some Grapic pics and yes sometimes we need to look into pics like this to see the reality of what might be.


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## MJS

Here's something to think about.  Take a couple of your knife defenses in your system.  I think its safe to say that if they stand there static, the defense can be completed.  Now, have that 'attacker' start acting like a madman and I'd bet we wouldn't pull off much.


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## Brian R. VanCise

*The reality of real nasty violence is never pretty*.  In fact up close it is a lot worse than the pictures Jarrod linked to.  Still in order to survive and go home to our loved ones we must prepare ourselves mentally to carry on and protect ourselves and our loved ones during a moment of violence.  In the end it may not work out like we were training and that is something that we must take into consideration during our training.  We must train at different times with the thought of having been injured, etc.  While training the other day an IRT practitioner was talking about a friend of his whose adult child happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.  How he got to that place was definitely his fault but then what happened was not.  Needless to say a violent situation happened and he was stabbed *eight times* in the chest and abdomen area.  This individual did not even realize that he was stabbed until many seconds into the encounter and the perpetrator of the stabbing was making a get away.  What is also amazing is that he survived and after surgery is fine.  The perpetrator was caught and prosecuted.  This happened relatively close to where I live.  Within five minutes or so.  Violence can happen anywhere and all we can do is prepare and train to protect ourselves and our loved ones in case we are in the wrong spot at the wrong time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





In the end I will protect myself so that I can go home to my loved ones.


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## Tez3

Jarrod possibly only you could have posted such graphic pictures and then said food for thought afterwards! 

Still on blades but I don't know if people realise that still in this day and age with all the modern weapons available our soldiers ( US and UK) are still ending up fighting hand to hand with bayonets in Afghanistan? The blade is still a formidable weapon in both the right hands and the wrong.


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## jarrod

MJS said:


> Now, I've never attended Peyton Quinns courses, but from what I've read about them, people say they're well worth the money, and create that mindset that we often face in a real situation.


 
i used to own his book "put 'em down, take 'em out" & i'd say it was one of the most instructive books on knife fighting that i have come across.  would love to train with the guy sometime.



Tez3 said:


> Jarrod possibly only you could have posted such graphic pictures and then said food for thought afterwards!
> 
> Still on blades but I don't know if people realise that still in this day and age with all the modern weapons available our soldiers ( US and UK) are still ending up fighting hand to hand with bayonets in Afghanistan? The blade is still a formidable weapon in both the right hands and the wrong.


 
i read an article a little while back that many US troops were carrying not only their issued blades but tomahawks as well.  which i think i friggin' awesome.  according to the article, the trend instantly upped their intimidation factor among the locals.  

btw, sorry for the incoherent opening line in the OP.  i've been at work all night & am a little sleep-goofy.

jf


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## Tez3

jarrod said:


> i used to own his book "put 'em down, take 'em out" & i'd say it was one of the most instructive books on knife fighting that i have come across. would love to train with the guy sometime.
> 
> 
> 
> i read an article a little while back that many US troops were carrying not only their issued blades but tomahawks as well. which i think i friggin' awesome. according to the article, the trend instantly upped their intimidation factor among the locals.
> 
> btw, *sorry for the incoherent opening line in the OP. i've been at work all night & am a little sleep-goofy.*
> 
> jf


 
Nah, I liked it!

There is something more intimidating I think about a knife (a reasonable sized one not little) than a gun sometimes. Perhaps it's something about someone who's willing to get up close and personal to kill you?


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## GBlues

Well, the first words that came out of my mouth on the first link was, "OOOOOOH man you know that hurt" The second link was, "Holy sh--!" and the last two I didn't have much to say about those. I don't know if I could continue any kind of defense if my back got sliced up, that bad. And the picture with the guys throat slit, I guarantee that I couldn't continue to fight.

My pops has always been the bulk of my training. He always told me, that if your going fight a guy with a knife, you may as well resign yourself to the fact that your going to get cut, Because YOUR GOING TO GET CUT! He used to tell me that the best you can hope for is that you won't get cut in a vital spot, and can kill or incapacitate the person before they kill you.

Yeah, I would like to believe that if it was knife on knife, that yeah, it wouldn't bother me to do the guy to save my life. However, I've never been in a knife on knife fight, so I wouldn't reaally know, how I would react, I would hope that common sense would take over, and I'd do what had to be done, to go home.:asian:


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## jarrod

Tez3 said:


> Nah, I liked it!
> 
> There is something more intimidating I think about a knife (a reasonable sized one not little) than a gun sometimes. Perhaps it's something about someone who's willing to get up close and personal to kill you?


 
i think it might be the fact that your chances of dying have gone up, but your chances of dying _instantly_ have simultaneously gone down.



GBlues said:


> Well, the first words that came out of my mouth on the first link was, "OOOOOOH man you know that hurt" The second link was, "Holy sh--!" and the last two I didn't have much to say about those. I don't know if I could continue any kind of defense if my back got sliced up, that bad. And the picture with the guys throat slit, I guarantee that I couldn't continue to fight.
> 
> My pops has always been the bulk of my training. He always told me, that if your going fight a guy with a knife, you may as well resign yourself to the fact that your going to get cut, Because YOUR GOING TO GET CUT! He used to tell me that the best you can hope for is that you won't get cut in a vital spot, and can kill or incapacitate the person before they kill you.
> 
> Yeah, I would like to believe that if it was knife on knife, that yeah, it wouldn't bother me to do the guy to save my life. However, I've never been in a knife on knife fight, so I wouldn't reaally know, how I would react, I would hope that common sense would take over, and I'd do what had to be done, to go home.:asian:


 
those were pretty much my exact thoughts too.  

jf


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## Rich Parsons

jarrod said:


> brian's thread on grappling with a knife got me thinking: too often we rely on they violent encounters going the way we think they are supposed to. i think it's instructive to look at some photos like this from time to time & ask yourself questions. could you still fight if you incurred this kind of damage? could you stand to inflict this kind of damage on another human being?
> 
> does your training prepare you for this?
> 
> ***WARNING! VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT!***do not click these links if you have a weak stomach.
> 
> http://www.dlsports.com/knife_dangers.html
> 
> http://www.pathguy.com/~tdemark/0050.htm
> 
> http://www.trauma.org/images/image_library/caecal_evisceration.jpg
> 
> http://www.itim.nsw.gov.au/images/Stab_wound_with_extruding_bowel.jpg
> 
> 
> food for thought.
> 
> jf


 
could you still fight if you incurred this kind of damage? 

Some, depending upon the amount of damage. I have been cut on the arm and stabbed in the leg, and was able to still function. But they were very minor compared to the links shown. 

could you stand to inflict this kind of damage on another human being?

In the heat of the moment, I have done what I need to do to survive.


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## hkfuie

Pretty gruesome.

I know I'd have a hard time fighting after sustaining wound #2.

But seriously, it is good to consider whether I would really stab someone.  Would you shoot someone?  If it were life and death, there's no choice.  If only one person's giong to live, I vote me.


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## arnisador

Ugh!


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## Tez3

My instructor has been stabbed a couple of times, not deeply thank goodness but he said he didn't realise he had until a fair bit later, he'd thought he'd just been hit.
A favourite thing over here is to stab you in the backside, it usually happens at football matches or if you get mugged. It's done firstly because it won't kill you and secondly because they hope you'll be too embarrassed to tell the police. They figure you'll most likely just patch it up yourself.

As for stabbing people, one thing I found was that you shouldn't stab randomly as you could hit the ribs and it jars your arm. Do try and aim.


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## jarrod

everyone seemed to miss that the wounds in photo #1 wrecked a perfectly good tattoo.

jf


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## kenpofighter

Look at what someone did. All that extra work for those doctors. No, on a serious note, we all (MAs) need to make sure that we never get too big of a head that we think, "that could never happen to me. There is always more for us to learn! If we are honest with ourselves, those pictures could become one of us if we are not careful.


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## tempus

Yikes...Those were some graphic pictures.  I will definitely be harping on rule number one, if you can run - then run for it.  I am going to be pushing up my knife defense scenarios for the horrible thought I cannot use rule #1.

I would hate to seen what a medieval battlefield looked like at the end of the day.

-Gary


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## DeadlyShins

jarrod said:


> everyone seemed to miss that the wounds in photo #1 wrecked a perfectly good tattoo.
> 
> jf


 
I was actually about to say that...total shame.  Not to mention the horrible pain...


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## Andy Moynihan

Look, however good, or practiced, or how "realistic"" your unarmed knife defenses are, you have to look at them like lottery tickets.

You try one, you scratch, you *MIGHT* win something, and losing while trying beats losing while trying nothing at all.

Realistically? there's no *sure* defense except by firearms, a longer contact weapon or by riunning like hell.


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## Aikicomp

MJS said:


> Here's something to think about. Take a couple of your knife defenses in your system. I think its safe to say that if they stand there static, the defense can be completed. *Now, have that 'attacker' start acting like a madman and I'd bet we wouldn't pull off much*.


 
Our style of Ju-Jitsu has a test in which the person giving the test (a person who has passed our knife fighting test) attacks the person exactly how descibed above. Nobody can pass the test if they are cut more than three times in a non vital area and if you are cut in a vital area you fail the test instantly. BTW, we use a hard rubber or wood knife coated with chalk or other "tell tale" substance and is one of the tests required for Shodan. 
We also have a test for Shodan in which you are attacked by three people with weapons (any combination of knife, gun and stick) stationary or moving. 

Is our standard too high? Perhaps.....but, in relationship to what is at stake I would say no. 

What do you all think? I welcome any input you may have. Thanks in advance. 

Michael


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## Sandstorm

Aikicomp said:


> Our style of Ju-Jitsu has a test in which the person giving the test (a person who has passed our knife fighting test) attacks the person exactly how descibed above. Nobody can pass the test if they are cut more than three times in a non vital area and if you are cut in a vital area you fail the test instantly. BTW, we use a hard rubber or wood knife coated with chalk or other "tell tale" substance and is one of the tests required for Shodan.
> We also have a test for Shodan in which you are attacked by three people with weapons (any combination of knife, gun and stick) stationary or moving.
> 
> Is our standard too high? Perhaps.....but, in relationship to what is at stake I would say no.
> 
> What do you all think? I welcome any input you may have. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Michael


 
I think this would make a good thread on it's own:mst:


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## CHAOS

The only thing I would add is some sort of distraction. Something that overloads the senses. We use extremely loud music and strobe lights during sparring, or testing. And our "sparring" was scheduled and usually ended with someone bleeding, but that was understood before we started. But we used markers and old clothes. It takes a certain dedication to train "realistically" and a lot of students dont go that far. I am a police officer and train to fight, not accquire a new color around my waist. But, you may like to try the music and light show.


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## astrobiologist

Definitely some gruesome pictures.  I agree we should all keep our egos in check at all times.  We train in the martial arts knowing we're leaving the dojo, dojang, kwoon, school, gym, etc. safe.  To be honest, I know a few knife defenses, but we never really train them.  Maybe I should consider adding that to class some night...


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## GBlues

I actually came across another place that showed the same guy with the cuts all over his back. Yeah he was sliced open across the head, and right upper rib side also. This guy won. He killed the other guy. So I guess the reality, is, is that you can continue even with wounds like that. He didn't bleed out, he didn't go into instant shock, he killed the guy that gave him those wounds. Freakin amazing.


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## arnisador

That is something...but yeah, it's amazing what people can do.


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## dnovice

jarrod said:


> brian's thread on grappling with a knife got me thinking: too often we rely on they violent encounters going the way we think they are supposed to. i think it's instructive to look at some photos like this from time to time & ask yourself questions. could you still fight if you incurred this kind of damage? could you stand to inflict this kind of damage on another human being?
> 
> does your training prepare you for this?
> 
> ***WARNING! VERY GRAPHIC CONTENT!***do not click these links if you have a weak stomach.
> 
> http://www.dlsports.com/knife_dangers.html
> 
> http://www.pathguy.com/~tdemark/0050.htm
> 
> http://www.trauma.org/images/image_library/caecal_evisceration.jpg
> 
> http://www.itim.nsw.gov.au/images/Stab_wound_with_extruding_bowel.jpg
> 
> 
> food for thought.
> 
> jf


 
wassup jarrod,

i've seen and threated wounds like this and worse during my ems days. The people that inflict these wounds have no remorse. 

One guy on my ambulance was silent. He was so silent i thought he was going into shock. However, when he started speaking all he said was "they didn't care about my life." 

This kind of violence is facked, and should only be a last last last last resort.


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## Eazy

Giday Im new here my names Eazy.
Id like to add some serious concerns in regards to this topic.
It seems on youtube there is alot of trainers teaching techneques of this nature (Knife Fighting) even from Australia. This should become a major concern to anyone in Australia. As any young kid could self teach enough to do some serious damage to someone even death with these kills. This information and training should be exclusive to military or police only. There is the aspect of students paying to learn these skills while the trainer shows for free on youtube. So the effect of being trained and paying is watered down as there are many that now know the same skills.
I would have to question the filtering process of such students as well, I don't see whay the average Joe Blow needs these skills.
You see the trainer do a manouver that would put the attacker into submisive position with many slashes on the way but it dosn't stop then he gose the full monty and cuts the attackers throught.
This is not self defence training. Its training to murder. and anyone has access to it do a search on youtube Just punch in the search box Knife fight training or learn to knife fight and you'll see for your self.
With this sort of thing going on it wont be long before the goverment say enough accross the board for any self defence training and we don't want that. The students i seen doing this type of training didn't move or behave in a manner that i would call experienced i would say maybe only 1-2 years if that. what if thats all they want to learn then leave wo hit the street and join a gang or worse they are already in one?? There realy needs to be something done as its already getting out of hand. 
I tryed to communicate with the instructor and get a message accross only to be told to F__K off well that shows get character, He is Dangerous and i told him so in a letter after and very aggressive hardly the norm of a propper Matial Arts out fit.  Most of that style is realy good with the Tiachi fighting etc and the training to get a kinfe off someone but i don't think you should be trained to use it extensivly to the thought cut. The guy in the pics with the cuts was a cop its on youtube as well.


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## lklawson

Eazy said:


> Giday Im new here my names Eazy.
> Id like to add some serious concerns in regards to this topic.
> It seems on youtube there is alot of trainers teaching techneques of this nature (Knife Fighting) even from Australia. This should become a major concern to anyone in Australia.


Why?  It's not as if anyone has access to knives in Australia.  I'm pretty sure you guys just have Drop Bears there and nothing else.



> As any young kid could self teach enough to do some serious damage to someone even death with these kills.


Because stabbing and slashing is such a unintuitive process.  Most people, in fact, look at a knife and think, "now which end do I hold and can I 'cut' with the broad, flat part?"



> his information and training should be exclusive to military or police only.


That genii hasn't been in the bottle since WAY before Alexander the Great.  Good luck stuffing him back in now.



> There is the aspect of students paying to learn these skills while the trainer shows for free on youtube. So the effect of being trained and paying is watered down as there are many that now know the same skills.


Yeah, because it so much easier to learn from books and videos.  Not to mention that a live, experienced, training coach couldn't possibly see mistakes that a self-training individual would miss for who knows how long.



> I would have to question the filtering process of such students as well, I don't see whay the average Joe Blow needs these skills.


Well, due to the fact that no criminal in existence has these skills and, in fact, all criminals attack using nerf products, I'd have to agree.



> You see the trainer do a manouver that would put the attacker into submisive position with many slashes on the way but it dosn't stop then he gose the full monty and cuts the attackers throught.
> This is not self defence training. Its training to murder.


Has absolutely no place except in the military where, thank God, they only use knives and clubs because guns are far less effective than aforementioned knives and clubs.



> and anyone has access to it do a search on youtube Just punch in the search box Knife fight training or learn to knife fight and you'll see for your self.


I also saw a video on youtube which showed me how to prepare for the coming Apocalypse of Y2K when the world will end because of some idiotic computer bug.  It's sure to happen.  The video couldn't be wrong could it?



> With this sort of thing going on it wont be long before the goverment say enough accross the board for any self defence training and we don't want that.


Luckily for us, governments have a history of highly effective legislation and efficient implementation thereof.  This is especially true of government attempts to legislate martial arts training.  Just ask the Chinese Opera.



> The students i seen doing this type of training didn't move or behave in a manner that i would call experienced i would say maybe only 1-2 years if that. what if thats all they want to learn then leave wo hit the street and join a gang or worse they are already in one?? There realy needs to be something done as its already getting out of hand.


Absolutely!  Gangbangers are clearly the primary recipients of martial arts instruction.  It's why you see the Crips and the Bloods wearing gang colors in Olympic Tae Kwon Do and why the Judo teams were all tagging the Olympic village with gang sign.



> I tryed to communicate with the instructor and get a message accross only to be told to F__K off


It's simply amazing to me that you'd be treated like a crackpot.  Sad, really.



> well that shows get character, He is Dangerous and i told him so in a letter after and very aggressive hardly the norm of a propper Matial Arts out fit.


Without a doubt!  There is no way that martial arts should ever make someone dangerous!  Nor should martial arts be associated with fighting.  Good heavens, what is the world coming to?!?!?!?!

Thank you very much for sharing. 

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Eazy

Good answers thanks for taking the time to repley. Wise and Humble trates of a good master i envy that.
In defence of the trainer in question, It looks like they have copped alot of flack before my question and may be a reason for what i thought was i'll character. 
WUJIN is the Martial art in question. I love the stuff they do, don't get me wrong and seems very effective in close combat. The tia chi and stcks is great but mastering these skill alone and knife dissarm skills you do not need to learn how to cut someones throught. I mean most would know that if you cut the thought your going to kill them but it dose not need to send that message that (this is how you finish him off) the instuctor should say (This is how you go to prision). Once you've disarmed the attacker it is highly unlikely they will want to carry on with you particuarly if they felt they needed the weapon in the first place. 
Heres a top artical on the subject in question.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html check it out, makes alot of sense.


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## lklawson

Eazy said:


> The tia chi and stcks is great but mastering these skill alone and knife dissarm skills you do not need to learn how to cut someones throught.


Unarmed/Empty-Handed against a knife is just this side of suicide.  Even a stick against a knife is freaking hard.  The stick hurts, the knife kills.

I don't know why you think empty hand against a knife is reasonable, but it isn't and it never has been.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Eazy

No your right no argument but against a thug with no knife experience just an attitude and possably drugged up you might have it as your last line of defenece if you cant do anything eles. Well i used to think this till i saw youtube a few days ago, Now you have to treat every situation with a veiw its a good chance they are highly trained wich in turn has moved street violence to another level. Now you can assusme every thug is carrying a blade. they are tought to knock the knife out by hitting the flat side of the blade with power. Knowing this now it is easy for the attacker to anticipate this movement and turn the blade and pull back up ready for a stab. 2 moves the defender is dead. 
I would take out his sight with sand or some form of obstruction, Even though a rock or 10 a stand up sprinkler a garden steak a stick in the face use a garbage bin to trip or even a lid as a sheild anything to get away. Thats my street savy side and knowing your surroundings as i walk i notice everything its second nature to me. I sub anticipate an attack in many enviroments particuarly in unkown areas i move. It sounds a bit obsesive compusive i know but it my nature even down to when i drink in public every thing is thought out carry the galss in the left hand ready to though the drink in someones face if im threatened then follow through with a right and keep marching threw. I take note of wich hands they smoke with and wich the hold there drink without being obvious. Im constantly studing human behavour and personalities. it is all part of knowing your enviroment. Making sure i am well positioned and nothing behind me to trip over or get pushed over. Im basiclly a self taught bar fist knuckle boxer and used to train with mates old school way just take the knocks. I have no fear of walking though a set to get close my first move without weapons is to get in past the power zone and to close for anyone to take a good swing my size and weight pretty well over powers in most cases. Yes ive been beat down and i except that. Ive had one knife attack from a like 13-14 year old kid once that was all ive had to do with knives, I managed to sway him out of it. i don't even remember how he wasn't sure about what he was doing and i give him a chance to change his mind and i would leave him alone. I think he pulled it with out thinking. Always give the attacker an out in this case don't make them feel comitted or it enevitable your going to get hurt.
This to me is real self defence Not Martial arts but very effective ways to keep from someone getting the better of you.
Im not that confident that no one will attack me with all the crystal meth and new drugs out ther you just don't know whats around the corner. I don't even like the citys because of this. Who want's to live life with an eye looking out the back every where they go. Im not scarred just cautious i lived on the streets for some time when i was young and im not getting stuck by some prick full of drugs, That is not my destiny. Cheers


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## lklawson

Eazy said:


> No your right no argument but against a thug with no knife experience just an attitude and possably drugged up you might have it as your last line of defenece if you cant do anything eles.


I know one Silat expert who used to say, "If your opponent has a knife, take 10 years off of your martial arts training.  If he has training, take more off."



> Well i used to think this till i saw youtube a few days ago, Now you have to treat every situation with a veiw its a good chance they are highly trained wich in turn has moved street violence to another level.


There's some really great stuff on youtube.  There's also some colossal stinkers.



> Now you can assusme every thug is carrying a blade.


You should have always assumed that.  It's hardly a new thing.



> they are tought to knock the knife out by hitting the flat side of the blade with power. Knowing this now it is easy for the attacker to anticipate this movement and turn the blade and pull back up ready for a stab. 2 moves the defender is dead.


Don't worry about that.  First off, knocking the blade aside by the flat, empty handed, is idiotic.  Second off, the defense suggested is lame.  Third, it is pretty intuitively simple to kill an unarmed person with a knife and the knowledge for how to do so has been around as long as knives have.  Heck, if you want an easy primer, look at "Put 'em down, Take 'em out" and that book is, literally, an antique.  And that's just "modern" books.



> I would take out his sight with sand or some form of obstruction, Even though a rock or 10 a stand up sprinkler a garden steak a stick in the face use a garbage bin to trip or even a lid as a sheild anything to get away.


Look, improvised weapons are great when you can't access an actual, purpose built, weapon in defense.  But that's all they are: IMPROVISED.  An improvised weapon is shoehorning a non-weapon item into a role it was never intended for and will always be less effective at performing than a item designed specifically for that purpose.  Yes, a "Marksalot" magic marker can make an improvised Kopo, but it's less rigid, and far more fragile than an actual Kopo.  Same goes for any improvised weapon.  And I recently heard a rather interesting account of what happened to one idiot who thought a trash can lid made a useful shield.  I think he was probably able to walk again, but the "aftermath" was left out of the story related to me.



> Im basiclly a self taught bar fist knuckle boxer and used to train with mates old school way just take the knocks. I have no fear of walking though a set to get close my first move without weapons is to get in past the power zone and to close for anyone to take a good swing my size and weight pretty well over powers in most cases. Yes ive been beat down and i except that.


I can respect that.  If true, it means that you can lay a beat down, unarmed, one-on-one, against 50% of the martial artists I've met.  But being a Bar Brawler, even a fair-to-midlin self trained one, cannot prepare for knife assaults any more than half (or more!) of the crap I've seen in the "genuine martial arts training" does.



> Ive had one knife attack from a like 13-14 year old kid once that was all ive had to do with knives, I managed to sway him out of it. i don't even remember how he wasn't sure about what he was doing and i give him a chance to change his mind and i would leave him alone. I think he pulled it with out thinking.


So you talked your way out of getting stabbed.  This is wise.  Even a pre-teen kid like this can be death on wheels if he has a knife and you're unarmed.



> Always give the attacker an out in this case don't make them feel comitted


If possible, yeah.  No argument about that.



> This to me is real self defence Not Martial arts but very effective ways to keep from someone getting the better of you.
> Im not that confident that no one will attack me with all the crystal meth and new drugs out ther you just don't know whats around the corner.


Dude, this isn't new at all.  Drugs which can (either in isolation or in combination with others) lower inhibitions, increase pain tolerance, raise aggression, and decrease perception of personal injury are old, old hat.  Heck, simple alcohol fits the bill without including thinks like cocaine, barbiturates, and historic "patent medicines."



> I don't even like the citys because of this. Who want's to live life with an eye looking out the back every where they go. Im not scarred just cautious i lived on the streets for some time when i was young and im not getting stuck by some prick full of drugs, That is not my destiny. Cheers


Modern First World cities are a thousand times safer now than they were 100 years ago.  But, yeah, still dangerous in the right circumstances.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Eazy

Iklawson good response, I don't think i can argue any answers there.
Just to add a bit to improvised weapons though. When you bring yourself with nature and notice the weapons avaliable as primitave man did then you have a good chance of finding something around when needed and make good use of it. Adrenaline is our friend it will do its best to keep us alive. Under fear the body gose into what they call (Fight Flight) The two optunes you intitaly think about when an aggressor is on your case. I never Pick a fight nor am i ever interested in it.
The only ones ive ended up messy was from those that have attacked from behind when i have been really drunk (Younger) Very few considering how many ive had. So i don't hang out in pubs much anymore, i don't ,well im 40 and wiser put it that way. So now ive life experience on my side. Even with that i choose to do different things in my life which dose not involve high risk zones very often.
Im not parranoid or scarred to go out or anywhere and do stuff, I guess i don't feel the need. There's less chance your going to get hurt going fishing with a mate on a boat for the day then going to watch the strippers at the pub for the day. Ya see, every time we make dicissions we should value in the risks, Pluse the fact if i didn't end up in trouble at the strippers my missus would have a piece of me when i got home.( Probably more dangerous) she done (Karate) yep she can drop me on my knee with a finger hold or some bloody thing im still trying to get my head around. Bloody quick to its not nice. Make a bottle of Pepper spray, Put some die in it so your attacker  can be later identified  There is a million ways to make it on the net and youtube. you can make it stronger than original it would be one of the best weapons for a knife attack situation But usually a knife attack is an assasination or an ambush and you may have been stabbed before you know its happened (Cloak & Dagger) This could be in a crowded night club which i never go to  (dress code's, hot headed bouncers, top price drinks, Stinking smoke machiens, People full of self vanity, Drugged up idiots, counterfit change, dirty toilets sticky carpets, pushing your way threw crowds, ha the cue to get in, pay Admition to come in.) Your Joking these must be the worst places to go but the best if you want trouble. What a thread starter (Night clubs) Full testosterone jockular sparing idiots and chicks waiting for the **** to go down (Girls Love it they thrive on it) They will not addmit it but its all hype its excitement it something different its a display of power to many, its a talking piece. They are Hell houses in my opinion Give me a good cafe or out door Alfesco or a brew house with a live Irish band any day. another choice place to get into trouble is the Kabab joint down the road from the club (Yep you bet) I dont know why but this is a place you may end up the kabab. or the Taxi rank accross the road yes your risk dose not end at the club it follows you all night once you got that club stamp on your hand your in for a very high risk night. Even more so if your in the company of some fine looking fillys.
I choose to do day activities this is good self defence, The brew house band will finsh about 10pm and go home any time you spend out and about after 11:00pm is extreamly high risk find your way home or to a mates place and finish off till what ever time you like Ejoy your own or their music and hostpitality thats what good mates are for. Hey a knife free attack free event. Geeze one may even wake up for bacon and eggs without a hangover or without a busted up body in bandages in hospital sucking through a straw and busted up puffy eyes wondering if your girls made it home alright. Not to mention finding ya last $5 in ya pocket (My take on night clubs) Outdoor daytime and DJs are good (Medium risk) Ale House(Low risk) Night club (Very High Risk) Beach (Low Risk) berfore 10pm (medium Risk) after 11pm (Very high risk)  Pub Rock band (high risk) Although after 1100pm finishing people that go to live venues feel they are getting good value and they generaly have a good time there spirits are raised way more than in a night club where they except they are getting ripped off. I must start a thread of high risk zones and times and get a discussion on this because it is a huge factor.


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## Eazy

Other usefull items we carry on us that can be for good weapons. Your keys, a small LED flash light on them as well is great for taking out attacker sight for that most important few seconds to blind your opponent. a bag, your shirt, a belt, a shoe, a jacket. Even if you give a look to make your opponent think there's someone going to jump them from behind or look over his sholder and yell out jump him or now or grab him or get him. this will distract your attacker to look the other way and may be enough to engage, flee or arm youself, This is vital time and probably the most important part of engagement that may determin the out come orf the situation.
I used a tactic i thought up my self when i got a warning off a bloke that i better fu_k off or eles i looked down at my pocket and put my habd in and said to me hey its ok look ive got something for you he naturaly dropped his head to follow my hand going into my pocket like i was going to give him some drugs or something and pulled it out fast with a back handed that put him straight on his ***, Needless to say i finished him off before the bouncers even got there (Kalgoorlie Night Club). He should never have threatened me never give your opponent knowlege of your intentions if you are the aggressor (I never am anyway) but i don't take ****.


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## lklawson

Eazy said:


> Your keys, a small LED flash light on them as well is great for taking out attacker sight for that most important few seconds to blind your opponent.


The keychain lights are almost never bright enough.  If you're interested in flashlight fighting, there's plenty of good options.  Most modern belt flashies are bright enough and make decent Kopo/Yawara too.  Then there's the classic "4 D-cell" clubs.

I happen to like Elektro Lumens, but that's just me.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Chris Parker

Eazy. First thing: Paragraphs. Really, makes it much easier to be understood.

Okay, that said, lklawson is really right in everything he's said here (tongue in cheek including, Kirk....), so I'm not going to go into what he has already covered, just recommend that you take another look at your source (nononsenseselfdefence.com). These guys are really not highly thought of by anyone with actual experience, just so you know. Mark MacYoung and his "Attack Proof" system has drawn curious eyes, bewildered gazes, and hearty guffaws, but rarely endorsements from those that depend on such skills.

Oh, and on topic, those pictures get sent to our seniors regularly (when we do knife defence, for example), as I expect them to understand why we train such things. Always a good reminder.


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## Eazy

Cool, I'll work on my parragraphs as well.


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