# "Talking to the police"



## KenpoTex (May 5, 2008)

This link is to a presentation by Professor James Duane of Regent Law School on the topic of talking to the police if you are ever suspected of a crime.  His position, which he backs up with case law, is that talking to the police (as opposed to letting your attorney do it) CAN DO NOTHING TO HELP YOU!

This is a topic that is of great importance for all of us since, if we are ever forced to use our training, we can almost guarentee that we will be dealing with LE personel.

Unfortunately the legal aspects of self-defense, particularly how to handle the aftermath, are topics that are seldom understood by many of us because most of us, IMO, don't take the time to research the information. I have had instructors (and have seen posts by people on this forum) who try to address this topic and end up giving information that is absolutely wrong.  They are trying to be helpful, but they are not legal professionals.  In fact, I've had and worked with instructors who have never even read the use of force statues for the state, but still want to discuss the legal side of SD.

Do yourself a favor and watch this video.  It was taken (it appears) in one of his law classes.  It is about an hour long but *don't* let that prevent you from watching it.  It is definately information that may be (probably _will_ be) vital if you are ever involved in a serious defensive situation.  Just as a side-note, pretty much everything he says is identical to the statements made on another forum by two defense-attorneys (one of whom served as a judge for 8 years).

Do me a favor and don't argue or opine until you have had a chance to watch it.

http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/


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## jks9199 (May 5, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> This link is to a presentation by Professor James Duane of Regent Law School on the topic of talking to the police if you are ever suspected of a crime.  His position, which he backs up with case law, is that talking to the police (as opposed to letting your attorney do it) CAN DO NOTHING TO HELP YOU!
> 
> This is a topic that is of great importance for all of us since, if we are ever forced to use our training, we can almost guarentee that we will be dealing with LE personel.
> 
> ...


I don't have an hour to watch this video right now, so I don't know all of the professor's reasoning, but I disagree.  Before I go further, let me issue the caveat that I am not providing legal advice or guidance, as I am not a lawyer.

If you have to defend yourself, and the police respond, and you say nothing, you give the responding officers nothing to work with.  In some cases, that won't really matter, because the circumstances are reasonably clear or other witnesses will explain what happened.  But let's take a reasonable occurrence; a fight outside a bar.  No real witnesses; you walked out, and a guy jumped you.  Maybe mistaken identity, maybe attempted robbery, maybe just some imagined dispute in the bar -- but we'll assume you did nothing to start the fight.  You defend yourself, and the guy is KOed.  He ain't talking.  You say nothing, just give your identification info over.  Guess what?  You're probably going to jail.  You can clear it up at court -- but that'll take time and money.  And it won't change the existence of the arrest record, which can be an issue in some jobs.

But... if you make a brief statement to the officers outlining the basic circumstances, there's a chance they can confirm part of the account.  They can at least put your side down in their report.  The fact that you're working with them, at least to a minimum level, argues in your favor; you're not trying to hide anything.  You don't have to go into great length.  "I don't know... I walked out of the bar, I was minding my own business, and this guy was attacking me!  I don't know exactly what I did, I just defended myself." is plenty.  You don't need to (and probably shouldn't) say you used Koshi Guruma to throw the guy, after softening him up with a left hook, and that you used bon sao to stop the initial attack.  (No, I don't know that those moves would go together well; they're just examples.)  If you attempted to render aid afterwards, it would be good to mention that, too.

As the severity of the injury you inflict increases, you can expect more questions.  If you're attacked by an armed person, and you kill them or deal them a serious injury (broken bones, spinal injuries, severe head trauma, etc.), you can expect more questions.  You probably would find it worthwile to mention "the guy had a knife/gun/whatever, and I was in fear of my life because of that!" 

In other words, cooperate, but don't volunteer too much.  You're not talking to your attorney; you're talking to the first people who will be deciding whether or not there are charges to be made.  Give them the info to do so fairly, instead of forcing them to decide with no information.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (May 5, 2008)

The link does not work.

In my experience I have been stopped by police who said I look like a bank robber another time I was stopped by 4 officers and pulled from a Burger king because they accused me of having a gun on me!!

I always complied with the officers and answered any questions and let them search me. Now I could go into silence and say Lawyer or I do not consent to searches but guess what just because it says this and that on paper in law does not mean those who work for the law are going to follow it.  

I do not mean this to be disrespectful to all LEO it just has been my experience as well as many others here in Miami.


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## Deaf Smith (May 5, 2008)

LFI-1 Massad Ayoob.

1. When the cops arive tell them the dynamics of the situation.
   That is:
  a. you are the victim
  b. the ones on the ground (hopefully) are the suspects
  c. point out any evidence (like clubs, knives, guns, etc.. before someone in the crowed walks off with them.) Same goes for any other evidence.
  d. point out any bruise, cuts, tears, etc.. done to you or others.
  e. tell the cops you will co-operate 100 percent, totaly, but.... you are upset and would like to take to your lawyer first!
  Then shut up! If they try to ask even make talk questions, be firm, be polite, but tell them you still want to talk to a lawyer first.

There are many reasons for the above. 

1. After such an encounter you may very well not remember everything, nor even remember it in the order it happened. You can easly say something that can be taken many different ways by the cops, the same cops that use just their memory and a note pad, and what was supposed to sound like self defense, sounds to them like murder.

2. You can be pressured to say something as fact when you really are not sure it is fact. Like how many shots were fired? Did you count?

3. Being upset, you can actually feel remose even if you did fight for your life and blurt out how you are sorry it happened or you might say maybe I didnt need to shoot, or other things at the heat of the moment.

Anyway, yes you do co-operate with the police, but only have a good long talk with your lawyer to get the facts right in your head.

Deaf


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## tshadowchaser (May 5, 2008)

As soon as I can get the link to work I will listen to Professor Duane to see what he has to say


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## jks9199 (May 5, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> LFI-1 Massad Ayoob.
> 
> 1. When the cops arive tell them the dynamics of the situation.
> That is:
> ...


Good points.

For some of these very same reasons, there is a movement away from interviewing police officers involved in shootings until they've had some time to calm down.

The Force Science Institute has some excellent, often scholarly level, information and research on this.


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## KenpoTex (May 5, 2008)

The link says "temporarily unavailabe due to high demand"...sorry about that, hopefully it'll come back up soon.

JKS, Prior to some recent (last few months) discussions with attorneys (including the aforementioned thread on the other forum) and then seeing this presentation, I would have agreed with you.

However, one of the points that they made was that under the stress you will be experiencing in the aftermath of a violent event, it is way too easy to say the wrong thing or to say too much.  Even if you are completely innocent, it is very common for people to say something that could be damaging to them later on.  

Here's the link to the discussion I mentioned previously.  "Umpire" is a defense attorney and was a judge, and Mitchell Esq. is also a defense attorney.  A number of police officers also posted in the thread.

http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/729104881/m/2001005253


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## jks9199 (May 5, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> The link says "temporarily unavailabe due to high demand"...sorry about that, hopefully it'll come back up soon.
> 
> JKS, Prior to some recent (last few months) discussions with attorneys (including the aforementioned thread on the other forum) and then seeing this presentation, I would have agreed with you.
> 
> ...


I'm not in total disagreement -- but if you don't provide at least some minimal information, the cops at the scene will have nothing to work with.  I worked a case several years ago (I believe I've posted this before) where I responded, and the complainant has a bloody nose. His alleged assailant has left the scene.  Based on the complainant's initial account, it seemed like an open & shut case; he got popped in the nose by the other guy.  Well, there was an issue about moving the other guy's car without permission... and nobody else really wants to confirm the account.  H'mm...  the plot is thickening.  I eventually interview the other guy, and it changes the story quite a bit.  It seems that the alleged assailant had parked his car on the street, and gone into the business to pick some stuff up.  The complainant goes out, and moves the car without permission.  When the alleged assailant comes back, he tells the complainant not to move his car.  The complainant begins to advance on the "assailant"...  who is significantly larger.  He pushes the complainant back, and tells him to stop.  The complainant advances again, and the "assailant" hits him to get him to stop charging at him.

Kind of a different complexion on the assault, huh?  But if the "assailant" had decided he couldn't talk to me without a lawyer, he would probably have been arrested.  (I was actually planning to hook him when he came in for the interview!)

I'm not at all suggesting that immediately after an attack you should answer any and all questions by the cops.  I don't blame someone who calls for an attorney, especially if they've seriously injured someone while defending themself.  But they should provide enough of the basic info to help the cops know who needs to be hooked -- or they stand a good chance of going to jail themselves.


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## tellner (May 6, 2008)

Yes and no. In one case with which I was peripherally involved the answer would be a definite "Talk to the police!"

A friend was walking to the bus stop at the urban university which she attends. A guy started harassing her about her head scarf. She tried to keep moving and even walked into the street to avoid him. He got in front of her and started waving a knife around. He got more and more combative. "Muslims" this. "9-11" that. "Towel head" the other thing. Started poking at her with the blade. She arranged herself so that the jerk with the knife was between her and the other guy - no more than one potential attacker at a time.

A couple young guys stood up for her and said "We're Muslims, too." She used the opportunity to disengage and get the hell out of there. She wasn't hurt. The nice young Muslim brothers were not hurt. The deranged dipwad and his friend were not hurt.

She talked to Campus Security. They didn't report the attack to the police.

The next day I took her to the Central Precinct. She gave a report to a very professional officer. The cop who took the report was very interested to note that my friend walked into traffic to avoid the situation and that the attack with a deadly weapon was based entirely on his perception of her race, religion or place of national origin.

This way the police have a description. They have a suspect. If dipwad gets arrested for something else they can see if she can identify him. The community knows about a potential danger. If he's known to the police already they have some idea that he's a danger to himself or others at the moment. And in today's paranoid times it's a great example. "Hijabi gets attacked and reports it to the police in spirit of good citizenship" is much better for police/Muslim community/greater community relations than "Hijabi feels she can't talk to the police at all and handles things privately" or "Hijabi won't talk to the police without a lawyer to make standard complaint."

Should she have hired a lawyer to make the report? Not hardly. She didn't beat the schmuck to death with her Hello Kitty water bottle. If she had, then she would have called 911, her husband, us and a lawyer. An extra couple hundred dollars in billable hours would have convinced her not to tell the police at all.


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## tellner (May 6, 2008)

My take on dealing with the police after self defense situations goes kind of like this. JKS what do you think of it as a rule of thumb:


Call the police as soon as it is safe to do so.
Do not make sudden moves, yell or run towards the police when they arrive.
Do whatever they tell you, especially if they were told that shooting irons or sharp things were involved
Tell them you're glad they're here. Cops very seldom meet people who are happy to see them.
Tell them you were attacked
Tell them you were forced to defend yourself
If you were afraid the attacker was going to hurt or kill you tell the police that, too.
Give a description of your attacker
If the description is "His head looks a lot like that head over here. His body looked a lot like the body way over there", then that's the description you need to go with 
Realize that you could be hurt without knowing it. Ask to be taken to a hospital
Realize that adrenaline breakdown products will screw up your judgment and make you babble. Tell the police that you're confused shaky and need to calm down before you can tell them much more. For 99.99% of people that will be the gods' own Truth.
As soon as you can, call your lawyer and someone who can help you deal with details without going to pieces.
Get photos of all your injuries and notarized copies of your medical records in the ER. Make sure your lawyer has them for future use
Don't sign anything.
Don't say anything else
For the love of Cthulhu don't talk to the Press
And that is about all you should say to anyone without your lawyers' advice.


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## chinto (May 6, 2008)

OK if I am in a self defense situation, the first thing after calling for ambulance and law enforcement is my attorney.  I will have nothing to say to the law enforcement people other then I was in fear for my life and talk to my attorney!   that is it in a nut shell.. and what cops have told me to say as well!!


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## jks9199 (May 6, 2008)

tellner said:


> My take on dealing with the police after self defense situations goes kind of like this. JKS what do you think of it as a rule of thumb:
> 
> 
> Call the police as soon as it is safe to do so.
> ...


Seems a pretty reasonable approach to me.

Steps 2 & 3 -- no sudden moves, and following directions explicitly are vital, especially if you've used any sort of weapon to defend yourself.  In fact, as soon as you can safely do so, I'd suggest placing the weapon on the ground -- just don't let it leave with the crowd.  Even cops have been shot in the confusion of responding to the scene of a shooting.

Step 4 is nice, but probably not necessary.

Step 16 is very important.  The press is nobody's friend but their own.

The bottom line is simple, in my opinion.  If you give the cops nothing to work with -- I have to go by what I see, which can be very bad for a successful self-defense.  If you give them something to help sort the events out, everyone stands a much better chance of the proper outcome happening.  But it's easy to talk yourself into trouble in the heat of the moment...  which is why lengthy statements regarding what happened should wait till you've calmed down, and you probably should consider legal guidance.


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## jks9199 (May 6, 2008)

tellner said:


> A friend was walking to the bus stop at the urban university which she attends. A guy started harassing her about her head scarf. She tried to keep moving and even walked into the street to avoid him. He got in front of her and started waving a knife around. He got more and more combative. "Muslims" this. "9-11" that. "Towel head" the other thing. Started poking at her with the blade. She arranged herself so that the jerk with the knife was between her and the other guy - no more than one potential attacker at a time.
> 
> A couple young guys stood up for her and said "We're Muslims, too." She used the opportunity to disengage and get the hell out of there. She wasn't hurt. The nice young Muslim brothers were not hurt. The deranged dipwad and his friend were not hurt.
> 
> She talked to Campus Security. They didn't report the attack to the police.


They absolutely should have encouraged her and assisted her in making a police report.  I see two explanations for why they didn't.  Either they just plain didn't give a darn, or they were worried about the effects of reporting a hate crime on the university.  And, as described, it was a hate crime.





> The next day I took her to the Central Precinct. She gave a report to a very professional officer. The cop who took the report was very interested to note that my friend walked into traffic to avoid the situation and that the attack with a deadly weapon was based entirely on his perception of her race, religion or place of national origin.
> 
> This way the police have a description. They have a suspect. If dipwad gets arrested for something else they can see if she can identify him. The community knows about a potential danger. If he's known to the police already they have some idea that he's a danger to himself or others at the moment. And in today's paranoid times it's a great example. "Hijabi gets attacked and reports it to the police in spirit of good citizenship" is much better for police/Muslim community/greater community relations than "Hijabi feels she can't talk to the police at all and handles things privately" or "Hijabi won't talk to the police without a lawyer to make standard complaint."



One note:  While this was a very well handled self defense situation (and proof that not all self defense involves hands on combat!), it wasn't a situation where she (or anyone) used force to defend themselves.  Ideally, she'd have made the police report right then -- so that the ******* with the knife could be caught and dealt with before he hurt someone.  Please, never hesitate to call the cops -- especially if weapons and assaultive behavior are involved.  The worst you'll ever do is save someone a traffic ticket!


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## Bodhisattva (May 6, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> The link does not work.
> 
> In my experience I have been stopped by police who said I look like a bank robber another time I was stopped by 4 officers and pulled from a Burger king because they accused me of having a gun on me!!
> 
> ...


 
It is that way all over.  Several times when an officer asked if I consented to a search of my vehicle, and I responded "I would rather you did not search my vehicle." He responded with "you watch too much tv.." and "I think I will anyway.." and other similar responses.

I had one cop threaten to break my wrist because I wouldn't tell him why a friend was on probation.  

I've never once in my life treated cops disrespectfully, either.  I received this treatment to my surprise while being respectful.


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## tellner (May 6, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> They absolutely should have encouraged her and assisted her in making a police report.  I see two explanations for why they didn't.  Either they just plain didn't give a darn, or they were worried about the effects of reporting a hate crime on the university.  And, as described, it was a hate crime.


It's not just hate crimes. Campus security departments don't like to have the police involved in anything unless it's absolutely necessary. Universities are notorious for hiding serious crimes and handling them with informal discipline procedures. Reported crimes make the institution look bad and cost money. It's at its worst with sexual assault.



> One note:  While this was a very well handled self defense situation (and proof that not all self defense involves hands on combat!), it wasn't a situation where she (or anyone) used force to defend themselves.  Ideally, she'd have made the police report right then -- so that the ******* with the knife could be caught and dealt with before he hurt someone.  Please, never hesitate to call the cops -- especially if weapons and assaultive behavior are involved.  The worst you'll ever do is save someone a traffic ticket!



I agree absolutely and 100%. It was all she was up to to talk the University's security people at the time. It took a while to convince her to make a police report. The whole "bad thing go away" post-event syndrome and the Adrenaline Monster had their claws into her. You just have to do the best you can with the situation you're in. Maybe this will make it easier for the next person to come forward a little sooner.


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## KenpoTex (May 7, 2008)

The link appears to be working again, there is also an option now to download the presentation from i-tunes.


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## KenpoTex (May 24, 2008)

continuing with the question of whether or not to talk to the police...

The following is an excerpt from a post written by a former judge/current defense attorney after he participated in some "Force-on-Force" training:


> We all have this idea in our minds about how we will perform under stress. The idea is flawed. Even though I KNEW the scenarios were not life threatening, and even though I KNOW what is relevant in terms of the legal issues; my ability to accurately relate "what happened" and the details of the confrontations was as flawed as the next guy.
> 
> Just as the IDPA guys in class were not better/worse than the rest as far as shooting performance; my ability as a witness/participant was no better/worse than the layman. Which leads me to state with even MORE conviction; ASK TO TALK TO A LAWYER-THEN SHUT YOUR MOUTH.


The full discussion can be found here (forum requires registration).


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## Balrog (May 27, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Seems a pretty reasonable approach to me.
> 
> Steps 2 & 3 -- no sudden moves, and following directions explicitly are vital, especially if you've used any sort of weapon to defend yourself.  In fact, as soon as you can safely do so, I'd suggest placing the weapon on the ground -- just don't let it leave with the crowd.  Even cops have been shot in the confusion of responding to the scene of a shooting.



Some extra points.

If you have a cell phone, call 911 and stay on the phone with the dispatcher.  Describe yourself to them so that they can relay the description to the responding officers.  If you are on the phone with dispatch when they arrive, that is even better.  Don't hang up unless the dispatcher tells you to.

If you have disarmed the attacker and have the weapon in your hands, it is best to place it on the ground and put a foot on it if you need to make sure it doesn't "grow feet and run off".  As soon as the first officer arrives, make sure your hands are visible and empty, and announce that you are standing on the weapon.  Ask them what they want you to do, then follow their instructions.


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## jks9199 (Jun 17, 2008)

Just a bump, since the topic is gonna come up soon elsewhere...


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## allenjp (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm afraid I kinda have to come down on both sides of the issue here.

First off I should say I am not an attorney, but I work closely with them, both defense (public and private) and prosecution every single day and discuss many cases with them every single day while I am helping them communicate with their clients, witnesses, victims etc...and I also have many discussions with the police involved in these incidents on a daily basis. In fact many times I have more info about the case than either side because I can be working for both sides at the same time. I have also witnessed and participated in probably a hundred criminal trials in which I have been present for the entire proceeding, heard comments from both judge and attorney alike that juries and press do not hear, and heard LEO conversations that do not make it to the public eye.

I have been told by more than one defense attorney "if noone talked to the police we would never have any convictions in court". And many more times than that I have heard defense attorneys tell their clients "next time *do not* talk to the cops". And I have seen in different cases how this can be adviseable. What people don't realize many time is that the police are not anybody's friends in these situations. I do not mean to say that they are hostile to everyone, just that they do not have an interest in helping people avoid criminal charges, they are interested in investigating crimes and making arrests accordingly. One of their best tools in investigations is to make it seem that they are friendly with people to get them talking. I have seen too many statements made to the police, under the guise of friendliness, that the person making the statements almost seemed to think were made in confidence, used to arrest them and later against them in court. My first impulse is to say as little as possible, and if possible nothing.

However it should be noted that the average person should not be only concerned with avoiding a conviction, but also being arrested in the first place. Not only because of the future implications an arrest can have with employment, but also because it can be hard to post bail, and a lot of times you are looking at at least a month or two in jail while waiting for vindication at trial. Looking at it from this point of view, there are some things, very minimal things, that may be advantageous to say to avoid an arrest. I have said what IMO those things are in other posts, and it is similar to what people have said here. But IMO it is best to limit the conversation to one short statement that you were the one attacked and that you were afraid for your safety. Then shut the hell up.

At the very least I would say that if it at any point becomes clear that you are going to be arrested, you should shut the hell up, and not talk again until it is with a defense attorney.

As to kenpotex's statements about people on this thread who are making "wrong" assertions, if that comment is directed at my posts, I postulate the following: one does not necessarily need to be an attorney, much less a judge to have experience and understand how the justice system and criminal trial system work. Even many people who have been to jail several times and been through the whole process may be able to shed some light on this issue. 

I also stress again that since laws, procedures, and jury tendencies vary so much from area to area, any opinions should be expressed particular to the area that the person has experience in. Mine are only from California, specifically southern California.


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## Archangel M (Jun 17, 2008)

Of course the point should be to not be a law breaker in the first place. And give the whole "victim of circumstance" thing a rest. The VAST majority of arrest situations are either stupid people doing stupid things or emotional people doing things they later regret. Either way...the world would be a better place if people didnt break the law in the first place, and if they did, own up to it instead of worrying about how to get out of it.


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## allenjp (Jun 17, 2008)

But in this particular arena what is, and what is not against the law is open to so much debate because of the way the laws on the subject are written. And those of us who affirm our right to defend ourselves instead of waiting for the police to do it, need to know what we are looking at, and need to know what can be considered breaking the law...


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## Archangel M (Jun 17, 2008)

Well all I have to say is that you should realize that if YOU dont talk, the police are going to then have to go with what witnesses and/or the other party says. Then your odds of being arrested may have just gone up. Not that Im recommending running your mouth, but just be aware...I would say that you should be prepared to make a general statement about the event but save any "blow by blow" details till you talk to an attorney, especially if you are asked to go back to the station to give a statement. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## jks9199 (Jun 17, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Of course the point should be to not be a law breaker in the first place. And give the whole "victim of circumstance" thing a rest. The VAST majority of arrest situations are either stupid people doing stupid things or emotional people doing things they later regret. Either way...the world would be a better place if people didnt break the law in the first place, and if they did, own up to it instead of worrying about how to get out of it.


The question at hand isn't really for the banger/criminal crowd.  It's for the folks who end up defending themselves and find themselves having to explain what happened.  They're not trying to explain how they just mysteriously ended up in someone else's pants which just happened to have several dime bags of weed in the pockets, or how they wouldn't have stolen whatever it was, except that they were overcharging so much... or any of the other bs we've heard.


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## allenjp (Jun 18, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> The question at hand isn't really for the banger/criminal crowd. It's for the folks who end up defending themselves and find themselves having to explain what happened. They're not trying to explain how they just mysteriously ended up in someone else's pants which just happened to have several dime bags of weed in the pockets, or how they wouldn't have stolen whatever it was, except that they were overcharging so much... or any of the other bs we've heard.


 
HAHAHAHA, ROFLMAO. I guess this epedemic of people borrowing other people's pants isn't exclusive to Socal...

The real funny thing is how they can never remember the  last name of the guy they got the pants from or where he lives, even though they've known him for twenty years...

But invariably in the cases I deal with, the guys' first name is "Juan"...

Of course here it's always meth instead of weed that's in said pockets who belong to someone else.


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## allenjp (Jun 18, 2008)

I should clarify something here that I think didn't really come through in my other posts. Sorry for the long posts, but there's just so much detail involved here.

Anyway, the reason that I feel you may want to at least make a short statement, is that when the police arrive, and ask you what happened, if you immediately invoke your right to silence, and ask for an attorney, you may be kinda intimating to the police that you think you've done something wrong. People tell them they won't talk to them without an attorney all the time, and they say that when they are being arrested. 

They also know that there are defense attorneys out there telling their clients not to talk to the police *next time*, and so if you start out with that they have good reason to think you may have been in trouble before. 

My advice would be to say "that guy attacked me, and I defended myself because I was afraid he would kill me", and *then* shut yer yap and don't say any more. It may be a good idea though, instead of saying you want to talk to an attorney, to say that you're shaken up, and you need time to calm down before you can talk about details. But don't say any more until you have talked to an attorney. 

And especially if you end up being arrested, *don't say a freakin' word.*


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## Archangel M (Jun 18, 2008)

Thats more along the lines of what I was thinkin.


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## punisher73 (Jun 18, 2008)

I think one of the keys to this is you have to give them SOMETHING to let them know you are the victim.  Like has been previously said, if you say nothing at all the police will put that in their report and they will also put the other person's story in there also.  When you make your statement it will seem less credible and more like you are "making it up" to justify what you did.

I had a domestic situation where the girl had a bruise on her ribs which would have been consitant with being punched.  I attempted to talk with the boyfriend and he wouldn't say ANYTHING!  I mean not even something along the lines of "I don't know why she is saying this" or "I didn't do anything".  NOTHING, guess who got arrested because all I had was one person's story and a bruise that would give me probably cause that he did do it.  The reason I point out this story is, let's say it wasn't a boyfriend/girlfriend but it was at a bar.  He thinks your somebody else and yells something at you while he takes a swing.  You block his punch and then punch him dead on the button.  He gets knocked out and has a huge bruise and fat lip.  He gives his side of the story and says you punched him and he has the bruise, you say nothing at all.  What do you think the cops are going to do?  They kind of have their hands tied with the information given.

Also, all of this talk about lawyers and wanting to talk to them.  How many of you actually HAVE an attorney on retainer and have previously discussed this matter with them and KNOW that they will answer your call late at night to help you out?  Also, you have gotten the specifics of what they would like you to do/say when giving a brief statement to the police for if they defend you later in court?

All of this debate is kind of like talking about how to punch/kick and then never going out and practicing it.  It's a mental exercise that will never help you unless you actually put the plan in ahead of time.


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## KenpoTex (Jun 18, 2008)

Just curious...have you guys actually watched the video or read through the thread I linked?


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## Archangel M (Jun 18, 2008)

Yup..goes back to my earlier post upthread. The video was pretty much about keeping the client who (even the professor said this) is many times guilty, from incriminating himself. With some mention about how innocent people also confess. Which as a defense attorney I guess is an admirable goal. Im somewhat less sympathetic about keeping the guilty out of jail. Thats not my job. 

Didnt hear anything explicitly about self-defense. But Im still of the mind that you better have something to say if the cops show up and the other guy has holes in him and you are holding the weapon.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 18, 2008)

Chaps, I've just read through this thread and I just want to say "thanks" to all of you for your contributions.  Excellent insights being given by people who know what they're talking about.

:rei:.


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## jks9199 (Jun 18, 2008)

allenjp said:


> I should clarify something here that I think didn't really come through in my other posts. Sorry for the long posts, but there's just so much detail involved here.
> 
> Anyway, the reason that I feel you may want to at least make a short statement, is that when the police arrive, and ask you what happened, if you immediately invoke your right to silence, and ask for an attorney, you may be kinda intimating to the police that you think you've done something wrong. People tell them they won't talk to them without an attorney all the time, and they say that when they are being arrested.
> 
> ...


There's no length of post limit, at least as far as I know.  Some things require more words to say than others, so use 'em!  And this is definitely one of those topics...

If you don't give the responding officer anything to work with, then he or she is going to have to go by what other people tell them and what they observe.  There's an infamous sequence to cops... the "eyewitness" who saw "everything."  Much more often than not, this is an EYEWITLESS, because they're statement is going to begin "I heard a crash/commotion/uproar and then I turned around and saw..."  Very seldom did they actually see what they think they did... because they only saw the aftermath.  So, if you've just defended yourself from a violent attack, do you want the only thing for the cop to work with is one guy on the ground, out for the count, and an eyewitless who's statement will amount to seeing you hit the guy?

I'm not suggesting you give a detailed statement in the heat of the moment; see earlier posts for exactly what my opinion is on how much detail you need to go into.  It's not a lot -- but it's more than nothing.


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## chinto (Jun 19, 2008)

All I can say is if I am ever in a self defense situation I will say NOTHING to the cops except that I was attacked! every thing else will be after an attorney is involved representing me!!
this is in fact the thing that 3 cops told me they would do too!!


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## allenjp (Jun 19, 2008)

chinto said:


> All I can say is if I am ever in a self defense situation I will say NOTHING to the cops except that I was attacked! every thing else will be after an attorney is involved representing me!!
> this is in fact the thing that 3 cops told me they would do too!!


 
Cops? Don't you mean Law Enforcement Officers? lol


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## chinto (Jun 23, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Cops? Don't you mean Law Enforcement Officers? lol



yes COPS  constables on patrol is where that came from.. yes LEO's..one is a state police officer, the other is a city cop and the last is a city detective....  COP covers all the different flavors..LOL, besides as their employer, i figure if I wish to use cop that is fine. hell they call themselves cops too! LOL


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## allenjp (Jun 24, 2008)

chinto said:


> yes COPS constables on patrol is where that came from.. yes LEO's..one is a state police officer, the other is a city cop and the last is a city detective.... COP covers all the different flavors..LOL, besides as their employer, i figure if I wish to use cop that is fine. hell they call themselves cops too! LOL


 
very well, cops it is!!!


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## jks9199 (Jun 24, 2008)

chinto said:


> yes COPS  constables on patrol is where that came from.. yes LEO's..one is a state police officer, the other is a city cop and the last is a city detective....  COP covers all the different flavors..LOL, besides as their employer, i figure if I wish to use cop that is fine. hell they call themselves cops too! LOL


No, it's not.

I don't have access to the very well researched piece a friend of mine did on it -- but Snopes covers it pretty well: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp

Bottom line -- it's from a verb meaning to take or capture.  It predates the existence of British Constables, and has nothing to do with buttons.


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## chinto (Jun 25, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> I don't have access to the very well researched piece a friend of mine did on it -- but Snopes covers it pretty well: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp
> 
> Bottom line -- it's from a verb meaning to take or capture.  It predates the existence of British Constables, and has nothing to do with buttons.


ok.. we can call them peelers then!   ( original name for the London bobbies and came from the man who came up with the idea of a police force instead of a knight watch of soldiers.)   but like I said  most of the cops I know call themselves and other LEO types cops


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 25, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> LFI-1 Massad Ayoob.
> 
> 1. When the cops arive tell them the dynamics of the situation.
> That is:
> ...


 That is the best advice.....keep the story simple, concise and don't expound with a lawyer.

Believe me, if i'm involved in a police involved shooting, i'm going to be invoking my rights as well........


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## allenjp (Jun 25, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> I don't have access to the very well researched piece a friend of mine did on it -- but Snopes covers it pretty well: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp
> 
> Bottom line -- it's from a verb meaning to take or capture. It predates the existence of British Constables, and has nothing to do with buttons.


 
Oh for the love of pete!!! Do you like to be called that or not?!

By the definition in that article something like the following would make sense: My friend was once copped by a copper who was copping several others at the time.


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## jks9199 (Jun 25, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Oh for the love of pete!!! Do you like to be called that or not?!
> 
> By the definition in that article something like the following would make sense: My friend was once copped by a copper who was copping several others at the time.


I know some people who are very particular about it; it's OK for me or another LEO to call them a cop, but not for the public.  It's also a complement in many cases; if some cops call someone "COP", it means I think there more than a simple guy with a badge who happens to be a police officer -- they're transcended the minimum standards to be good.

Personally... I don't care. Cop, Officer, LEO... all beat pig and many other names that won't pass the profanity filter.

I just also will debunk the false origins of the term; bad info doesn't help anyone.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 25, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> I know some people who are very particular about it; it's OK for me or another LEO to call them a cop, but not for the public.



Why?


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## jks9199 (Jun 25, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Why?


Why is it OK for your brother to use a stupid family nickname for you -- but not me?

Some officers have taken the term "cop" to be a title of distinction; being called a cop is a sign that they aren't just some guy who passed the academy and met the minimums in FTO, but a FOR-REAL-COP.  In that circle -- for someone who's not part of the family to call 'em a cop is an insult.

Like I said -- personally, I don't care too much.  There are people that it means a lot to me that they think of me as a "cop" and not simply a police officer.  There are people who I simply couldn't care less about their opinion.  In general, I'll take cop over many of the other things I've been called!

You might think of it as the difference between being a serious martial artist and someone who "does" a martial art...


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## Sukerkin (Jun 25, 2008)

I can see your point, *JKS*.  

My neighbour is a policeman and I would not dream of calling him a "copper" to his face.  It would just be rude, like someone calling me a geek for what I do for a living these days.

Also, I can confirm, from my knowledge at least, that the origin of the term 'Copper' has it's roots in "cop", as in "cop hold of this" i.e. take hold of this.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 25, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Why is it OK for your brother to use a stupid family nickname for you -- but not me?



I see, thanks for your input.  I just wasn't aware of the various meanings imputed to this title compared to any other.  Before being too insulted by us civilians, police officers should probably keep this in mind.  Most of us just aren't aware of the differences!

That said, it probably doesn't help that "Cops" is one of the most visible and long running police shows of all time.


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## chinto (Jun 25, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> I know some people who are very particular about it; it's OK for me or another LEO to call them a cop, but not for the public.  It's also a complement in many cases; if some cops call someone "COP", it means I think there more than a simple guy with a badge who happens to be a police officer -- they're transcended the minimum standards to be good.
> 
> Personally... I don't care. Cop, Officer, LEO... all beat pig and many other names that won't pass the profanity filter.
> 
> I just also will debunk the false origins of the term; bad info doesn't help anyone.


hmmm I personally have to say that the cops, LEO and or police officers, US Marshals and who ever with a badge work for me.. the tax payer.  so I think i have the right to call you any thing with in reason.. this does not mean being rude and profane, but any reasonable title.  i have called state cops and sheriff's deputy's and my  county sheriff  cops... to their face. they did not have a problem that i know of from it.  I have a real problem with the few cops I have met that seem to think that they do not work for the public but some how any cop is ok, and the rest are criminals, us versus them kind of thing. That kind of cop should have his badge revoked and not allowed to be any kind of authority type for the government.
I also have to say that thankfully the few i have met that way .. are few.


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## shujika (Jun 26, 2008)

"I have met that seem to think that they do not work for the public"

Well,....only "technically", they work for the city, whom over-sees their superiors, whom then direct the officers. So, "work for the public" yes, work for "you" particularly, ....not so much. They are there to "enforce" compliance with the law. Oh, and they tend to think it's hilarious when you attempt to "inform" them about "working for YOU".....


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 26, 2008)

chinto said:


> hmmm I personally have to say that the cops, LEO and or police officers, US Marshals and who ever with a badge work for me.. the tax payer. so I think i have the right to call you any thing with in reason.. this does not mean being rude and profane, but any reasonable title. i have called state cops and sheriff's deputy's and my county sheriff cops... to their face. they did not have a problem that i know of from it. I have a real problem with the few cops I have met that seem to think that they do not work for the public but some how any cop is ok, and the rest are criminals, us versus them kind of thing. That kind of cop should have his badge revoked and not allowed to be any kind of authority type for the government.
> I also have to say that thankfully the few i have met that way .. are few.


 While I can appreciate your point, the police do not work for you as an individual.....otherwise you could fire anyone who wrote you a ticket.  The police work for whatever governmental entity pays their check.  In a free society we rightly put restrictions on the police and their powers, but they still don't work for individual citizens as some seem to think.  In fact the US Supreme long ago ruled that the police have no specific duty to any individual, not even to protect you.  

The duty and service of police is a general duty and does not extend to any individual, meaning you don't give orders to the police as a citizen and they do not obey your commands.  They do answer to a chain of command that ultimately answers to an elected official who does answer to you, as is right in a free society.

Let me make it clear, I don't take an us versus them mentality.  I tell all my young cops that 95% of the people you'll meet out there are good, hard working folks trying to make a living to pay your salary.  The other 5% are the enemy of you AND them!  Treat everyone like family until they give you a reason not to, and just because you COULD hammer someone for something, doesn't always mean you should.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jun 26, 2008)

shujika said:


> Oh, and they tend to think it's hilarious when you attempt to "inform" them about "working for YOU".....


 If I had a dime!

Imagine IF every citizen was your boss.....oh what a cluster that would be!  You'd be spending all day trying to sort out the contradictory (and often asinine) orders.

The public does have a right to transparency in police authority.....but not on the scene in the heat of the moment, which is usually when they demand it.


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## allenjp (Jun 26, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> While I can appreciate your point, the police do not work for you as an individual.....otherwise you could fire anyone who wrote you a ticket. The police work for whatever governmental entity pays their check. In a free society we rightly put restrictions on the police and their powers, but they still don't work for individual citizens as some seem to think. In fact the US Supreme long ago ruled that the police have no specific duty to any individual, not even to protect you.
> 
> The duty and service of police is a general duty and does not extend to any individual, meaning you don't give orders to the police as a citizen and they do not obey your commands. They do answer to a chain of command that ultimately answers to an elected official who does answer to you, as is right in a free society.
> 
> Let me make it clear, I don't take an us versus them mentality. I tell all my young cops that 95% of the people you'll meet out there are good, hard working folks trying to make a living to pay your salary. The other 5% are the enemy of you AND them! Treat everyone like family until they give you a reason not to, and just because you COULD hammer someone for something, doesn't always mean you should.


 
Good man...


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## jks9199 (Jun 26, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> While I can appreciate your point, the police do not work for you as an individual.....otherwise you could fire anyone who wrote you a ticket.  The police work for whatever governmental entity pays their check.  In a free society we rightly put restrictions on the police and their powers, but they still don't work for individual citizens as some seem to think.  In fact the US Supreme long ago ruled that the police have no specific duty to any individual, not even to protect you.
> 
> The duty and service of police is a general duty and does not extend to any individual, meaning you don't give orders to the police as a citizen and they do not obey your commands.  They do answer to a chain of command that ultimately answers to an elected official who does answer to you, as is right in a free society.
> 
> Let me make it clear, I don't take an us versus them mentality.  I tell all my young cops that 95% of the people you'll meet out there are good, hard working folks trying to make a living to pay your salary.  The other 5% are the enemy of you AND them!  Treat everyone like family until they give you a reason not to, and just because you COULD hammer someone for something, doesn't always mean you should.


I work for the city.  The city manager's name is on my paycheck, and it's from the city coffers, not his personal account.  My responsibility is to my sergeant, my lieutenant, and the chief.  My service is performed for the benefit of the public, not necessarily for any one individual or to anyone's liking.  How could I enforce the law against someone if they were "my boss?"  It's sometimes my job to be the killjoy, to ruin the fun, and to tell people what they can't do.

I used to know someone who had calculated the amount any given tax payer contributed to his salary and worked that out in terms of the time typically spent on a traffic stop.  It was something near or under a quarter...  He'd hand a quarter back to someone who spouted the "I pay your salary" line while saying something to the effect of "here's a refund."

It's easy for cops to forget that most of the people we deal with are just ordinary folks going about their business because we rarely deal with even the nicest people at a time when their at their best.  It's also easy for us to forget that the "routine petit larceny from the idiot who left his door unlocked" isn't routine for the victim.  Both attitudes are things a good supervisor will fight.


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## chinto (Jun 28, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> I work for the city.  The city manager's name is on my paycheck, and it's from the city coffers, not his personal account.  My responsibility is to my sergeant, my lieutenant, and the chief.  My service is performed for the benefit of the public, not necessarily for any one individual or to anyone's liking.  How could I enforce the law against someone if they were "my boss?"  It's sometimes my job to be the killjoy, to ruin the fun, and to tell people what they can't do.
> 
> I used to know someone who had calculated the amount any given tax payer contributed to his salary and worked that out in terms of the time typically spent on a traffic stop.  It was something near or under a quarter...  He'd hand a quarter back to someone who spouted the "I pay your salary" line while saying something to the effect of "here's a refund."
> 
> It's easy for cops to forget that most of the people we deal with are just ordinary folks going about their business because we rarely deal with even the nicest people at a time when their at their best.  It's also easy for us to forget that the "routine petit larceny from the idiot who left his door unlocked" isn't routine for the victim.  Both attitudes are things a good supervisor will fight.


I and the rest of the public are your employer. that is fact.. this does not mean not doing your job! It means that you do it as politely as you can.. respect the people you deal with.  do so as civilly as you can with out endangering yourself and others. 
be polite and nice, till its time not to be polite and nice.  that is what it means, that and that every one who is not a cop is not a criminal, but a person..  hell they take a swing at you .. or point  a gun or start cursing you out and acting aggressively, that is one thing,  if they say " whats the problem?"  that is another.   In my town I see more cops run stop signs and speed down my street and others then any one else!  again, it means that if you do  not have your lights or siren on you fallow the laws like every one else! ( that is the law in this state.. but I see a lot of cops violate it.)  that is the kind of thing that makes people loose respect for the police.  the other thing a lot of people forget is that cops, police, sheriffs and others, by finding and ruling of the Supreme Court of the United States of America , have no duty to protect me or any one else!!   they have a duty to fallow the law, and to investigate crimes for the DA and arrest any one who is indicted by a grand jury or a warrant is issued against.  so please, be polite, be nice, and if it comes time to not be nice, then do what you gotta do.


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## thardey (Jul 1, 2008)

chinto said:


> I and the rest of the public are your employer. that is fact.. this does not mean not doing your job! It means that you do it as politely as you can.. respect the people you deal with.  do so as civilly as you can with out endangering yourself and others.
> be polite and nice, till its time not to be polite and nice.  that is what it means, that and that every one who is not a cop is not a criminal, but a person..  hell they take a swing at you .. or point  a gun or start cursing you out and acting aggressively, that is one thing,  if they say " whats the problem?"  that is another.   In my town I see more cops run stop signs and speed down my street and others then any one else!  again, it means that if you do  not have your lights or siren on you fallow the laws like every one else! ( that is the law in this state.. but I see a lot of cops violate it.)  that is the kind of thing that makes people loose respect for the police.  the other thing a lot of people forget is that cops, police, sheriffs and others, by finding and ruling of the Supreme Court of the United States of America , have no duty to protect me or any one else!!   they have a duty to fallow the law, and to investigate crimes for the DA and arrest any one who is indicted by a grand jury or a warrant is issued against.  so please, be polite, be nice, and if it comes time to not be nice, then do what you gotta do.



Those are good points, but *jks*'s point still stands. Even in the private sector, the clients are not allowed to tell the workers what to do. They tell the boss, or the manager, what they want, and the boss tells the workers how to do it. The Client can't come into a draftsman's desk and say "I'm the boss, I pay your paycheck, so I want a parking lot that's shaped like a kidney!" It doesn't work that way. 

The police are a part of a public company. I'm not it's boss, I'm a *client* of that company. Yes, that company does work that benefits me, and yes, ultimately, some of the money does come from me, but that does not give me the right to tell the workers how to do their job.

If a client came into the Engineering office where I worked, and started harassing the draftsmen, we would have them removed promptly, and they wouldn't be our clients anymore, never mind if they pay us or not. Unfortunately, the police don't have that option, so they have to put up with lousy clients, which is the worst curse that anyone could put on any organization.


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## Archangel M (Jul 1, 2008)

Exactly.."The Public" may be the police "employer". But the fact still stands that no ONE of us (or even thousand of us) is "The Public". Going by that standard, the cop is part of the public himself and therefore his own boss, right??

Try going to your Congressman or Senator and DEMAND! that they do what you want because they represent YOU!

Government doesnt work that way.


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## chinto (Jul 2, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Exactly.."The Public" may be the police "employer". But the fact still stands that no ONE of us (or even thousand of us) is "The Public". Going by that standard, the cop is part of the public himself and therefore his own boss, right??
> 
> Try going to your Congressman or Senator and DEMAND! that they do what you want because they represent YOU!
> 
> Government doesn't work that way.


''LOL.. yes and no.. be polite.. be nice.. put up with the man or woman who is having a bad day .. it it is a danger to you and the rest of the public that is different. a weapon involved.. or similar is different. and if your responding would endanger more then protect, your jog is to take the round. ....I told one cop locally when he complained at a local bakery .. I would like to see your letter that begins  " greetings from the President, your Friends and Neighbors have selected you.... "  his older partner laughed !!  he knew what I was referring to!! ( A Draft notice for selective service in the military  if you are to young to know.. )  and the older partner explained it to him..  he got the point... no one made you be a police officer or any other version of cop.
So be nice.. be POLITE till its time to not be nice and polite...


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## thardey (Jul 2, 2008)

chinto said:


> ''LOL.. yes and no.. be polite.. be nice.. put up with the man or woman who is having a bad day .. it it is a danger to you and the rest of the public that is different. a weapon involved.. or similar is different. and if your responding would endanger more then protect, your jog is to take the round. ....I told one cop locally when he complained at a local bakery .. I would like to see your letter that begins  " greetings from the President, your Friends and Neighbors have selected you.... "  his older partner laughed !!  he knew what I was referring to!! ( A Draft notice for selective service in the military  if you are to young to know.. )  and the older partner explained it to him..  he got the point... no one made you be a police officer or any other version of cop.
> * So be nice.. be POLITE till its time to not be nice and polite...*



Indeed. But to many, it is _not_ considered polite to tell people you're their boss, when you're really not. So the polite advice can go both ways.


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## chinto (Jul 3, 2008)

thardey said:


> Indeed. But to many, it is _not_ considered polite to tell people you're their boss, when you're really not. So the polite advice can go both ways.



yes courtesy is a two way street to a Point... but if a person is having a bad day.. and yet not a danger to the officer/deputy.. etc.. its the cops job to cut some slack and do his job.  he is to be polite .. till its time to not be polite. his duty is to investigate crimes and collect evidence ..  ( true he has NO DUTY to protect to public by Supreme Court of the United States of America Ruling) but he still works for the people.   the whole " us.. (cops) against them.. ( any one not a cop) is ******** and should be treated as such by the public and the cops themselves.  your job is to collect that evidence, and be polite.. and if necessary to not endanger the public.. die..  yep that is right.. if your shooting would kill innocents then your job is to take the round...  no one drafted you to be any kind of LEO.. so if you do not like that .. quit.   I know cops who say the same thing.   I do not expect you to be supermen.. but to do the job the same for every one... cop, none cop... black. white., red . yellow or green..   simple... but the simple things are hard.. and the easy way is always  mined!


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Jul 3, 2008)

chinto said:


> yes courtesy is a two way street to a Point... but if a person is having a bad day.. and yet not a danger to the officer/deputy.. etc.. its the cops job to cut some slack and do his job. he is to be polite .. till its time to not be polite. his duty is to investigate crimes and collect evidence .. ( true he has NO DUTY to protect to public by Supreme Court of the United States of America Ruling) but he still works for the people. the whole " us.. (cops) against them.. ( any one not a cop) is ******** and should be treated as such by the public and the cops themselves. your job is to collect that evidence, and be polite.. and if necessary to not endanger the public.. die.. yep that is right.. *if your shooting would kill innocents then your job is to take the round*... no one drafted you to be any kind of LEO.. so if you do not like that .. quit. I know cops who say the same thing. I do not expect you to be supermen.. but to do the job the same for every one... cop, none cop... black. white., red . yellow or green.. simple... but the simple things are hard.. and the easy way is always mined!


 

You find it in any police officers job description in any jurisdiction of the U.S. or any other country where it says I have to get shot.

That is one of the most asinine statements that I have ever heard in my life.  

That does not mean that I shoot indescriminately, but that does not mean I have to be a freakin bullet trap either. 

It appears you know nothing about the true nature of being a police officer.

Sorry if I am being a bit blunt, but its the perpetuation of stuff like this that gets people who put their lives on the line for others hurt.


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## fireman00 (Jul 3, 2008)

tell the police that you were afraid for your life, you are injured, you need to go to the hospital immediately then keep your mouth shut.  Rinse and repeat if needed.  

Don't talk to anyone in law enfocement for at least 12 hours. It takes hours for adrenaline released during an incident to be processed by the body.  Also, your mind will replay what happened over and over, take this time to create a timeline of events.  

Words can be twisted around or misinterpreted and even the most inoccuous statement can come back to bite you.  DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE UNLESS YOU HAVE A LAWYER PRESENT!


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## Archangel M (Aug 8, 2008)

The other side of the issue.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&hl=en

Although its been a while since I read this thread. I think this may have been posted already. Anyway. I ran across this link and thought of this thread.


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## KenpoTex (Aug 8, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> The other side of the issue.
> 
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&hl=en
> 
> Although its been a while since I read this thread. *I think this may have been posted already*. Anyway. I ran across this link and thought of this thread.


 yep, this was the second half of the presentation I linked to in the original post.


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## celtic_crippler (Aug 8, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> This link is to a presentation by Professor James Duane of Regent Law School on the topic of talking to the police if you are ever suspected of a crime. His position, which he backs up with case law, is that talking to the police (as opposed to letting your attorney do it) CAN DO NOTHING TO HELP YOU!
> 
> This is a topic that is of great importance for all of us since, if we are ever forced to use our training, we can almost guarentee that we will be dealing with LE personel.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for posting this. 

The very first principle taught to our students is "environmental awareness." 

One layer of that principle is being familiar with self defense laws in one's state (as the law varies from state to state ins the US) 

It's also important to know that even though you may be cleared of criminal charges, there is still the aspect of being sued in civil court. I personally reccomend carrying a personal umbrella policy to anyone with any assets (homeowner, etc) in order to protect them. 

It is not considered double jeopardy to have a case heard in civil court though you may have been cleared of charges in a criminal court. Even though you may be cleared of criminal charges, you can still risk being convicted and sued in civil court. (OJ Simpson is a prime example.)


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## thetruth (Aug 13, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> LFI-1 Massad Ayoob.
> 
> d. point out any bruise, cuts, tears, etc.. done to you or others.
> 
> Deaf




I would definitely not be pointing out any injuries I inflicted on an attacker(I'm not sure if this is what you meant by this statement).  That would definitely put you in some deep ****.   

Also I like what the Professor has to say.  At the end of the day anything you say when the cops arrive can easily be said by your lawyers later.  As for no convictions being made if people didn't talk to the cops assumes that the cops don't get any information you supply via your lawyer.  I would think twice before talking to the police after watching his videos

Cheers
Sam:asian:


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