# Don't Call Me Grandmaster



## Doc (Nov 28, 2005)

Changing My Title for the General Public
Doc Fei Wong
May 12, 2004


I am thinking about taking a humble title to replace the term "grandmaster" in the general public. Of course all the students and instructors in my federation will still address me by the title of Grandmaster, because this title was awarded to me by my late and retired teachers. What made me qualified to earn this title from them and why me and not their other students? I have had people outside of my federation asked me this question from time to time. I told them that I am glad that they asked. The reason I was promoted to the title of Grandmaster is because I passed their tests and met all of their requirements for the level of martial arts skill, knowledge, ability and leadership and their other students did not. Some of their students are good in kung fu, but they were not interested in teaching and passing on their knowledge and they were not going to have schools like me.

I sent out e-mail messages to my instructors in the federation asking for suggestions for a good title for me that is humble and strong enough to represent them as the leader of the Plum Blossom International Federation that would not make any of my students and members to look bad and would not be intimidating to other people outside the federation as well. Some replies suggested that I drop the Grandmaster title to be humble, and just to use Mister or Doctor in the public. However, if I drop the title and come to a big martial arts event like an exhibition or a big open tournament, there are sometimes more than 10 grandmasters and 100 masters there. When the MC announces all of the instructors, they all have a title, but I am just a Mister or Doctor, in this situation for sure is not good for our students that I am there to represent them. For me it does not matter, but I can not be selfish in my humility and make all the students look or sound like their Grandmaster is a nobody in public events.

Some of my students suggested that I use the Chinese title. However, in the old days of China, there was no international martial arts organization and even nowadays there are only a few; including ours. The term *Si-Jo*or Jo-Si is for the past-masters. I noticed that of some non-Chinese kung fu teachers were using the Si-Jo title nowadays! *Sigung* or Tai-Sifu is okay to called by the students students. All you need is to have one student and he also has one student, you will become the Sigung of your students student. Gung means grandfather or an old man.... This kind of Chinese terms are not good for the professional titles, its the family titles only.

A few of my students would like me change to the title Chief Master or Chief Teaching Master. I think the word Master alone can be intimidating to someone. Besides, some Korean martial arts have the title for their highest masters who are under the Grandmaster to call him Chief Master already. In this case I would be demoted to the 2nd class title from the Grandmaster!

I received suggested titles such as: Founding Director, Federation President, Chief Director Instructor, Executive Director Instructor, Chief Executive Instructor, Professor in Chief, Chief Scholar, Principal Scholar, Chief Coach, Keeper of the Hu Yuen Chou System and many more... Some of my students have asked me not to change the title Grandmaster. 

Shall I keep the Grandmaster title for the public? If you have something which sounds good, suitable for my position and also can be humble to the public, please send it to: i@gmail.com


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## IWishToLearn (Nov 28, 2005)

Senior Master Professor? 

*waits for the tap*


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## Doc (Nov 29, 2005)

IWishToLearn said:
			
		

> Senior Master Professor?
> 
> *waits for the tap*


I like it!!!!! Yeah, that's the ticket!


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## BallistikMike (Nov 29, 2005)

Oh...I could get so evil on this thread. 

How about his students call him what ever they think is protocol in their system?

How about everyone else just does the polite thing and call him Mr. ?


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## Flying Crane (Nov 29, 2005)

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> Oh...I could get so evil on this thread.
> 
> How about his students call him what ever they think is protocol in their system?
> 
> How about everyone else just does the polite thing and call him Mr. ?


 
bingo.  This was actually printed as a collumn in one of the MA magazines (Inside Kung Fu, maybe).  It seems like an arrogant way to make himself look humble to the public.  Ego is an amazing thing...


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## Danny T (Nov 29, 2005)

Why do you feel you need or must have a "title"?

Danny


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## BallistikMike (Nov 29, 2005)

Titles are earned in organizations that you belong to. Other then that it should just be politeness that guides your way.

If polite by your standards means addressing people by the title "Grand Master" then it will fit for you. 

The way I see things when people ask for titles they dont deserve them. 

When people shun the titles, more then llikely they could hold the standard of the title being thrust upon them by their peers.

Unless your in the circle of the organization and the people in that organization mean something to you the title is just just complete crap to anyone else.


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## CMS (Nov 29, 2005)

No doubt he takes great pride in being so humble.


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## Doc (Nov 29, 2005)

BallistikMike said:
			
		

> Titles are earned in organizations that you belong to. Other then that it should just be politeness that guides your way.
> 
> If polite by your standards means addressing people by the title "Grand Master" then it will fit for you.
> 
> ...


BINGO! I too wondered why "mister" didn't occur to someone.


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## Harley Quinn (Nov 29, 2005)

Sigung is good so is Apo. 

If you are a Grandmaster and don't feel like the name is appropriate, your problem. 
If it is brought up as I think it is, for I have heard this issue on prior occasion and believe it is brought up to antagonize. 
The ignorant will still be conversing as if it is something to be considered. But it is not worthy of my written post. 

The only reason I address it, is because in my perspective, it is a wolf in sheeps clothing. If I am wrong I will apologize. But I don't think so.

Harley


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## Gary Crawford (Nov 29, 2005)

Doc,(respectfull kenpo bow), Of course I believe you desrve the tittle of "Grand Master",I think I understand what you are trying to acomplish. You are looking for a way for Martial artsts and the non-martial artist to not be intimitated by your tittle. I truly appreciate that. It does show humility. However,your position does require some sort of tittle so your earned position is clearly understood. My suggestion is this:"Chairman". You can add whatever you want. Chairman of the Board(CEO), Chaiman of west coast kenpo,Chairman of diplomatic affairs,Diplomatic chairman,ect.


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## Doc (Nov 29, 2005)

Gary Crawford said:
			
		

> Doc,(respectfull kenpo bow), Of course I believe you desrve the tittle of "Grand Master",I think I understand what you are trying to acomplish. You are looking for a way for Martial artsts and the non-martial artist to not be intimitated by your tittle. I truly appreciate that. It does show humility. However,your position does require some sort of tittle so your earned position is clearly understood. My suggestion is this:"Chairman". You can add whatever you want. Chairman of the Board(CEO), Chaiman of west coast kenpo,Chairman of diplomatic affairs,Diplomatic chairman,ect.


Whoa Brother. I posted the article/letter for discussion. Those were not my words. I take an opposing view, and personally will never use the title "Grandmaster." From my perspective the title is inappropriate for any living individual to assume, in an Americal Culturally based entity. I have an academic title some use, and I have an MSU title "SMP" rarely used, and mister. Any of them is fine. By daughters call me "Daddy" when they want something, and "Father" when they don't want my advice. Thanks for the plug anyway.


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## Doc (Nov 29, 2005)

Harley Quinn said:
			
		

> Sigung is good so is Apo.
> 
> If you are a Grandmaster and don't feel like the name is appropriate, your problem.
> If it is brought up as I think it is, for I have heard this issue on prior occasion and believe it is brought up to antagonize.
> ...


Just perhaps sir, you should re-read the original post to refresh your perspective of the nature of this discussion, so you might be on the same page as the rest of us.


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## kevin kilroe (Nov 29, 2005)

How about "Big Daddy"? I hope it is worthy of my written post.


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## Doc (Nov 30, 2005)

kevin kilroe said:
			
		

> How about "Big Daddy"? I hope it is worthy of my written post.


I can't tell you who calls me that, but she is defintely allowed.


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## Lotus Flower (Nov 30, 2005)

I just call myself, SUPREME ULTIMATE SENIOR GRAND MASTER PROFESSOR.  You should try it Doc.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 30, 2005)

How about Grand Poobah?


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## kevin kilroe (Nov 30, 2005)

They are legends in their own minds!


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## Doc (Nov 30, 2005)

Lotus Flower said:
			
		

> I just call myself, SUPREME ULTIMATE SENIOR GRAND MASTER PROFESSOR.  You should try it Doc.


With fries and a shake ???


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## James Kovacich (Nov 30, 2005)

Almost sounds like he dosen't want to drop the title at all. Nothing wrong with that except it's mis-leading. If he needs a headmaster type of title, maybe he should make one up unique to his federation then he would not be compared to the other styles.

I also think that when he speaks of the "general public" he is speaking of the "general martial art public" because he would have to be full of himself to be thinking how the "real" general public should address him. 

I thought that distinction made it sound worse that his situation really is.


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## Harley Quinn (Nov 30, 2005)

Could someone be so kind as to direct me to the page or post that will clairify this.

As far as Grand Master goes it is fine, I was alway's of the opinion that the title 'Great Grand Master' was for the non living. Is Senior Grand Master unacceptable?

Harley


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## Shortay (Dec 1, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> My daughters call me "Daddy" when they want something, and "Father" when they don't want my advice.


 
and "Sir" when they're in class!

Big hugs

xx


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## Doc (Dec 1, 2005)

Shortay said:
			
		

> and "Sir" when they're in class!
> 
> Big hugs
> 
> xx


Dad will see you in February.

XXX


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## cfr (Dec 1, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Changing My Title for the General Public
> Doc Fei Wong
> May 12, 2004
> 
> Shall I keep the Grandmaster title for the public? If you have something which sounds good, suitable for my position and also can be humble to the public, please send it to: i@gmail.com


 

How about "The Martial Artist formerly known as Grand Master"?


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## Sigung86 (Dec 1, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Changing My Title for the General Public
> Doc Fei Wong
> May 12, 2004
> 
> ...



Now that's funny!  My email address has been sigung@yhti.net for about 9 or 10 years now... I never gave it a thought as it was just something to use.  I didn't even know it was a problem for some until the forums began to proliferate, and folks who had never met me or heard of me thought I was using it and it really only belonged to one most famous, and certainly deserving, Kenpo instructor, who shall remain nameless.  

Interestingly, I still use it as email name, never think of it as a title, and prefer my students to call me Dan or Mr. Farmer... Oh... Like Doc, there's one or two that can call me, "Big Daddy", "Poppa" or "Oh you big handsome hunk of manlitude"... I find I answer to those appelations with gusto and not as much speed as I once possessed. :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## arnisador (Dec 1, 2005)

Oh, I think we _all_ have someone who calls us "Big Daddy"...I don't see the issue here. If there's no tradition in the art, the lead dog should make one!


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## BlackIce (Dec 3, 2005)

My Soldiers called me " Sarge ", My Pilots called me " Chief " ( Crew Chief in ARMY Aviation Terms ), As a CQC Instructor I was " Black Hat ", My friends call Me " Tyrone ", My daughter calls me " DADA ", My Wife calls me " Everything But a Child of God  ", My students Call me " Sensei or Sifu " ( Jap. or Chinese for Teacher or giver of Instruction). Its all the same word ........ Respect !  Sir works fine for me.


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## ammonihah99 (Dec 23, 2005)

Hey how about GrandMISTER?

Get it?

It's like a mix between Grandmaster and Mister!

Get it?

 Ammon

P.S. Hello Dr. Chapél. Thought I'd let you know that I'm one of Jon Duke's students. We've met before, but it was five or six years ago. Just wanted to say hi and that I really appreciate your posts (and humor).


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## Doc (Dec 23, 2005)

ammonihah99 said:
			
		

> Hey how about GrandMISTER?
> 
> Get it?
> 
> ...


Well thank you and please say Hi to the very busy Jon Duke for me please. Post more often and dive into the discussions.

"They used to call me crazy Joe, now they can call me Bat-Man!"


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## Sigung86 (Dec 23, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Well thank you and please say Hi to the very busy Jon Duke for me please. Post more often and dive into the discussions.
> 
> "They used to call me crazy Joe, now they can call me Bat-Man!"



Having been cogitatin' on this for some long time now, I have come to the conclusion that they (whoever that may be) can call me anything, except late for dinner.  :burp:


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## Goldendragon7 (Dec 24, 2005)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> I have come to the conclusion that they (whoever that may be) can call me anything, except late for dinner.  :burp:



Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So who's bringing the tacos?

hee hee
GD


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## Doc (Dec 24, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> So who's bringing the tacos?
> 
> ...



WARNING, WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBISON : Do not go to an all you can eat buffet with either of the "gentlmen."


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## distalero (Dec 25, 2005)

I think the Grand Master was just bateing us.


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## Sigung86 (Dec 25, 2005)

Speaking of...

I would love a phone call from you Doc, and you Oh Golden Dragon.

I fried my hard drive and all phone numbers and most email addys are gone.

Thanks, and Merry Christmas to everyone!

Dan

ps: I challenge Doc and Golden One to a showdown at a Chinese Buffet!
Chopsticks, iced tea, sweet and sour pork at 20 paces! :boing2: 
:ninja: <-- My personal chopstick Manservant! 

:lool: :roflmao:


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## Danjo (Dec 25, 2005)

How about "Grand Wong" ?


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## Big Pat (Dec 25, 2005)

How about this for Doc, the "Assimilator"?

EKP RIP
Big Pat


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## Kalicombat (Dec 26, 2005)

Hey Sigung, how bout me? Ive been know to do some damage at some Chinese buffets myself. Now I only go after the veggie and meat stir frys, and crab claws when available, but I can still get the attention of a buffet owner. LOL. My favorite local haunt has a mongolian BBQ buffet as well, and I can control exactly what goes into my dish. MMMMMM  SHRIMP!!

Gary C.


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## jazkiljok (Dec 26, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Changing My Title for the General Public
> Doc Fei Wong
> May 12, 2004
> 
> ...



selfish in his humility? that's pretty funny- but if he said that being called DOCTOR DOC, or Doc Doc for short-- well i could see that being an issue... i'm surprised that he's worried so much about maintaining the lofty stature that his students have placed upon him. 

titles aren't impressing anyone but the fools anyway.


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## Doc (Dec 26, 2005)

jazkiljok said:
			
		

> selfish in his humility? that's pretty funny- but if he said that being called DOCTOR DOC, or Doc Doc for short-- well i could see that being an issue... i'm surprised that he's worried so much about maintaining the lofty stature that his students have placed upon him.
> 
> titles aren't impressing anyone but the fools anyway.


Reminds me of the saying: "If you can't dazzle them with science, blind them with Bull S."


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Dec 27, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Changing My Title for the General Public
> Doc Fei Wong
> May 12, 2004
> 
> ...


 
I asked Mr. Khu Chen Yong and he thinks for a senior teacher of Kungfu, the title Tai Laoshu or Tai Sinsiang is good. Both could be interpreted as head teacher or high teacher.


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