# Did I pass up something good? Or was it a charlatan?



## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

I was at the gym training on the bag. This wasn't my usual gym but one I was testing out. My old is getting a bit crowded, anyway this this guy came up to me and said he was impressed with what he was seeing. Some other guys looked impressed to complementing how far back the bag was going after hitting it a couple times.

He asked for my weight and I said 209. Immediately the guys with him shouted and cheered, the guy said that's perfect, you can fight my friend here. His friend was a guy around my size and a little taller.

I said what do you mean fight? He said don't worry you'll have gloves and headgear and we'd watch our for cheating.

I said I don't need to be fighting, this was immediately followed by oh cmon don't be a pussy and why you bitching out? From him and his group that was with him.

I tried walking away but they didn't let me leave and stood in my way. I was pretty much circled by this group of people and I said alright, I'll do it.

We got into the gyms boxing ring and honestly, I was nervous. I had no idea who this person was or what his level of experience was. Then when it started it was clear he been doing something. The guy kicked me in the damn shin and that hurt. 

So I figured ok this guy is hitting hard, I'm going to do that too. After some body kicks and some punches the guy called it quits. He walked out of the ring and so did I. I took off the gear and the guy from before said I had talent and he wanted to get me into fighting. That I could make money and to get started.

I had to pay him 800 dollars up front for fees and equipment. I told him I don't have that kind of money and basically left. I didn't let him finish talking. 

Is this how this stuff works? Or was he full of it? I also am not going back to that place.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 7, 2016)

Absolutely none of that matches what you should expect from a legitimate coach or fight promoter. The guy sounds like a con artist at best, a gangster of some sort at worst. You should have nothing to do with someone like that.


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## Phobius (Jul 7, 2016)

Does not matter true or not. If it was truth you would really not want to go with them anyway because there is no way that would end up positive experience for you.

First of all, 800 dollars up front for fees and equipment? That is not how business work. You always buy gear and get a receipt, in order to fight it is not like you need to hand over money without receiving anything. As for fees... what for? You were not gonna be fighting any match because if you were, they would tell you what fight it would be.

Finally, if they were actually tasked with finding talents they would introduce you slowly to secure that you are an investment before moving forward. They would never invest in some fool that would go into the ring with anyone without knowing any rules or even have a clue what he is doing there.

Finally, you pushed the bag and they saw that as talent. A red flag already there?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Finally, you pushed the bag and they saw that as talent. A red flag already there?



I have gotten much better with my punches since then. The bag moves yes, but it moves after a sudden strike, not a strike, then pushing into the bag like I used to do.



Tony Dismukes said:


> Absolutely none of that matches what you should expect from a legitimate coach or fight promoter. The guy sounds like a con artist at best, a gangster of some sort at worst. You should have nothing to do with someone like that.



Thanks. I am glad I made the right choice. 

What is interesting is the guy I had to "fight" didn't even look like he wanted to be doing it. Leaves me to wonder why was he at all?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 7, 2016)

Definitely con artist. They were trying to boost your self-esteem, make you think you could do well, get you to pay them, and disappear.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

Hate to be that guy but I thought your sifu told you not to get into stupid sparring matches with idiots in the gym. You said you couldn't walk away well what would those guys have done to you in a public area. Also by agreeing to fighting an unknown person that's very risky in itself because as you've stated in your own fights you gave consent to it happening or it could easily have been a set up to get you in trouble since you've probably got a bit of a rep of fighting idiots in gyms.

But honestly this story is a bit fishy to me. You seem to get into a lot of these situations that you seem to have to post here. Just saying


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 7, 2016)

I saw this same trick on an episode of, "Little House On The Prairie", with guest star Gene Labelle.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Hate to be that guy but I thought your sifu told you not to get into stupid sparring matches with idiots in the gym. You said you couldn't walk away well what would those guys have done to you in a public area. Also by agreeing to fighting an unknown person that's very risky in itself because as you've stated in your own fights you gave consent to it happening or it could easily have been a set up to get you in trouble since you've probably got a bit of a rep of fighting idiots in gyms.
> 
> But honestly this story is a bit fishy to me. You seem to get into a lot of these situations that you seem to have to post here. Just saying



I'm going to avoid situations like that by not going to that gym anymore. I tried the walking away part and it didn't work well.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> I saw this same trick on an episode of, "Little House On The Prairie", with guest star Gene Labelle.



I've only seen a few episodes of that show when I was younger. It was way before my time so I missed out on it.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'm going to avoid situations like that by not going to that gym anymore. I tried the walking away part and it didn't work well.


Like I said though they couldn't do anything in a public place with people around you just had to keep saying no until they got bored and realised it wouldn't work and walk off


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Like I said though they couldn't do anything in a public place with people around you just had to keep saying no until they got bored and realised it wouldn't work and walk off



Hindsight is 20/20. You're right.


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## drop bear (Jul 7, 2016)

If you want to fight. Go do a legitimate promotion of some kind.


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## Phobius (Jul 7, 2016)

I dont think it was them blocking him from leaving. Instead I think he blocked himself. Perhaps he wanted to prove himself still, not leave when people thought low of him or his skills.

As such he was not really looking for that way out in honest.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I've only seen a few episodes of that show when I was younger. It was way before my time so I missed out on it.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Hindsight is 20/20. You're right.


I've got to reiterate my other point how do you keep getting in these situations I mean no offence but why would they pick you out over everyone else I'm sure hundreds of people use that gym who are bigger than you and are better fighters who look better on the bag so why pick you out over any of them. Not having a go here Im genuinely curious


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## drop bear (Jul 7, 2016)

The guys name wasn't Charlie zelenoff was it?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I've got to reiterate my other point how do you keep getting in these situations I mean no offence but why would they pick you out over everyone else I'm sure hundreds of people use that gym who are bigger than you and are better fighters who look better on the bag so why pick you out over any of them. Not having a go here Im genuinely curious



I don't know to be honest. I was there for an hour, lifted weights and then for last 20 minutes I went there. There were others there but they weren't hitting the bag, they were working with kettle bell weights.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

drop bear said:


> The guys name wasn't Charlie zelenoff was it?



Lol no. He looked Filipino and said his name was Adam.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jul 7, 2016)

Oh boy here we again


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 7, 2016)

Phobius said:


> I dont think it was them blocking him from leaving. Instead I think he blocked himself. Perhaps he wanted to prove himself still, not leave when people thought low of him or his skills.
> 
> As such he was not really looking for that way out in honest.


I love how you guys keep making assumptions about what happened. This could have been the case, but you don't know. We have no clue what might have happened, and if they were trying to con him, there is a large chance they would try to get him to do the 'fight'.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I love how you guys keep making assumptions about what happened. This could have been the case, but you don't know. We have no clue what might have happened, and if they were trying to con him, there is a large chance they would try to get him to do the 'fight'.


Hey maybe it did go down the way he said it did but these assumptions are based on other things ironbear has said himself.

He looks to prove his skill, he hates being thought of as a coward, he likes fighting and sparring.

So if some guys say he could be a great fighter and looks impressive and offers him a chance to spar a guy the same size as him then calls him a pussy when he says no plus its a public gym with lots of people there and probably some girls working out  it's easy to make that assumption and again it's no disrespect intended but surely ironbear can see how people would think this way. Again that's a point everyone's been making as well you get a rep for fighting and causing trouble it's hard for people to give benefit of the doubt


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

But ironbear man don't think I'm judging you because I don't know you apart from what you said here and yes you've done some stupid things and I'm not claiming to be a saint I got into a fight in high school which I probably could've avoided see one of my first posts on this board but I learnt from that and experience is the best sensai in life


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

If people don't believe me and thinks it's all bs I won't argue it. I can't really prove this happened or didn't happen, if people think I didn't try to avoid it, and went into it happily and willingly. I won't argue that either because again, nothing I can do to prove that is true or false.

All I really wanted to know was is that how things work with promoters? I have no experience with them at all and I am pretty much new to that sort of thing, it's because of that I wanted to get some experienced people opinions and from the looks of it. 

I was in the right to walk away from it. I got all I needed from the thread so I think you for answering my question.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> If people don't believe me and thinks it's all bs I won't argue it. I can't really prove this happened or didn't happen, if people think I didn't try to avoid it, and went into it happily and willingly. I won't argue that either because again, nothing I can do to prove that is true or false.
> 
> All I really wanted to know was is that how things work with promoters? I have no experience with them at all and I am pretty much new to that sort of thing, it's because of that I wanted to get some experienced people opinions and from the looks of it.
> 
> I was in the right to walk away from it. I got all I needed from the thread so I think you for answering my question.


Of course you were no promoter signs a guy based on how well he hits a bag or how he spars some punk and they don't hang out in gyms they may visit fight gyms or schools but not your regualr sport centre and they do not ask for 800 upfront and why would a promoter be hanging round with a gang of cronies


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## drop bear (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> If people don't believe me and thinks it's all bs I won't argue it. I can't really prove this happened or didn't happen, if people think I didn't try to avoid it, and went into it happily and willingly. I won't argue that either because again, nothing I can do to prove that is true or false.
> 
> All I really wanted to know was is that how things work with promoters? I have no experience with them at all and I am pretty much new to that sort of thing, it's because of that I wanted to get some experienced people opinions and from the looks of it.
> 
> I was in the right to walk away from it. I got all I needed from the thread so I think you for answering my question.



Here promoters will ring up other gyms or just call out on facebook.  Something like "want 50 kg girl to fight.  Had five or less fights. 

Or for boxing you just sign up with an organisation and turn up to events.

No real money.  Mabye travel and a hotel.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Jul 7, 2016)

He is a charlatan.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 7, 2016)

I don't think he is lying. I have had up and coming promoters ask me to fight, just because, I knew karate. He is a possible fighter. Had he talked longer, maybe this would not be so black or white.


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## pgsmith (Jul 7, 2016)

So, have you now quit going to your martial arts class? Wasn't it you that told your sifu that you wouldn't get in sparring matches at the gym anymore if he allowed you to continue training with him?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> So, have you now quit going to your martial arts class? Wasn't it you that told your sifu that you wouldn't get in sparring matches at the gym anymore if he allowed you to continue training with him?



This didn't happen on purpose.


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## Buka (Jul 7, 2016)

Just be careful, bro.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear you need to be mentally stronger and not let people "make you do stuff."  Giving in to stuff like that is a sign of weakness and you'll end up with a reputation for being easily talked into doing stuff.  It would have taken more strength to say no to these guys, than to give in to their taunts. The other thing is that you really need to stop letting non-fighters hype you up like that.  Someone saying that you have good skills doesn't mean squat unless it comes from a professional trainer who trains fighters or your Sifu.

If someone off the street comes to me and tells me that I have skill then the first thing that should come out of my is a humble statement followed by "I'm not that good, I'm still a beginner in comparison to a lot of people out there."  Until my Sifu or my fight trainer hypes me up then everything that comes out of my mouth about my skill level should be on the level of a beginner.  



Ironbear24 said:


> Some other guys looked impressed to complementing how far back the bag was going after hitting it a couple times.


You have been told many many times that the swing of the bag is an indication of poor punching technique and not power.  If you took a baseball bat and hit that bag as hard as you can, the bag will not swing like it does when you punch it.  When you punch a heavy bag with proper technique and good power then that bag will either jump or cave in, leaving an indentation.  A real trainer or fight promoter isn't going to be impressed by how far a bag swings after you hit it.  You can show your Sifu and he won't be impressed either.

I just don't know why you put so much value in how far a heavy bag swings after you hit it.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 7, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Ironbear you need to be mentally stronger and not let people "make you do stuff."  Giving in to stuff like that is a sign of weakness and you'll end up with a reputation for being easily talked into doing stuff.  It would have taken more strength to say no to these guys, than to give in to their taunts. The other thing is that you really need to stop letting non-fighters hype you up like that.  Someone saying that you have good skills doesn't mean squat unless it comes from a professional trainer who trains fighters or your Sifu.
> 
> If someone off the street comes to me and tells me that I have skill then the first thing that should come out of my is a humble statement followed by "I'm not that good, I'm still a beginner in comparison to a lot of people out there."  Until my Sifu or my fight trainer hypes me up then everything that comes out of my mouth about my skill level should be on the level of a beginner.
> 
> ...



He told me today I have to stop chicken winging. That makes me use only my arm and chest to punch instead of my entire body.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 7, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> He told me today I have to stop chicken winging. That makes me use only my arm and chest to punch instead of my entire body.


I will second that.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 8, 2016)

It's a tough situation to be in, especially if what you say is true that they did indeed surround you and press-gang you into the fight. I probably would have done the same in your shoes as the chances of me getting beat up by a single person in a ring is a lot less than being beat up by 4-5 people surrounding me. Yes, there is always the chance of them just giving up and walking away, given that it's a public place, but quite frankly people are stupid and some will go at it even if loads of people are watching. Unfortunately for you, in that situation there is a risk no matter what you do. If you had stood there and done nothing, or tried to push past them when they surrounded you, there is the risk of them starting a fight where (unless they were completely incompetent) you would undoubtedly come out worse off. By comparison, the risk of getting injured or injuring another person in a controlled 1v1 ring fight are a lot less, so I think you did the right thing by accepting the fight once the option of walking away was passed. 

What I would do is speak to whoever owns the gym and see if they know the guys who approached you. People like that generally have a rep and will try the same thing on other people if they get the chance. By alerting the people who own the gym you will possibly help other people who may be caught by the same group that approached you.


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## Phobius (Jul 8, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I love how you guys keep making assumptions about what happened. This could have been the case, but you don't know. We have no clue what might have happened, and if they were trying to con him, there is a large chance they would try to get him to do the 'fight'.



We all make assumptions. Con artist or not noone can ever force you to fight at a public gym unless it is without attacking you unprovoked.

I was not saying Ironbear is lying, just simply saying that he was goaded into fight. Not put in a position where he was unable to leave but rather they stroke his ego in such a way he could not leave on his own accord. This is not intended as an insult but as something that could be another angle to the problem Ironbear saw, as such perhaps he can better understand how this can be avoided in the future.

After all **** happends, what is important is that we learn from it what we can. Just saying "oh lucky me" and then hope it never occurs ever again is not always a good way to live your life.

Now to a very important question, will you tell your sifu what happend?


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 8, 2016)

Phobius said:


> We all make assumptions. Con artist or not noone can ever force you to fight at a public gym unless it is without attacking you unprovoked.



There was no guarantee that the guys who approached Ironbear wouldn't have attacked and ganged up on him if he refused to fight or tried to push past them, even in a public place. The fact that they surrounded him when he tried to leave signals to me that they were going to make him fight regardless of what he wanted. In that respect it was safer to take the 1v1 fight in the ring than risk having to fight 1v4/5 whilst surrounded. That said, I would be curious to know exactly how busy the gym was at the time and if there was a member of staff nearby.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> He told me today I have to stop chicken winging. That makes me use only my arm and chest to punch instead of my entire body.


Something that might help- practice a jab cross combination right next to a wall (so that your jab goes alongside the wall). It will become painfully obvious when you are or aren't chicken winging. When you get bored, turn around and do the same thing with the cross.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> There was no guarantee that the guys who approached Ironbear wouldn't have attacked and ganged up on him if he refused to fight or tried to push past them, even in a public place. The fact that they surrounded him when he tried to leave signals to me that they were going to make him fight regardless of what he wanted. In that respect it was safer to take the 1v1 fight in the ring than risk having to fight 1v4/5 whilst surrounded. That said, I would be curious to know exactly how busy the gym was at the time and if there was a member of staff nearby.


I would assume there would've been a member of staff especially in a boxing area, any gym I've gone to that has a boxing area always has someone there because any ranom idiots could come in and spar and end up hurting each other and especially in a boxing area there could be a lot of ego trips there so I'd find it hard to believe there was no one else in that area either someone working out or a staff member


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 8, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I would assume there would've been a member of staff especially in a boxing area, any gym I've gone to that has a boxing area always has someone there because any ranom idiots could come in and spar and end up hurting each other and especially in a boxing area there could be a lot of ego trips there so I'd find it hard to believe there was no one else in that area either someone working out or a staff member



You would think so, but would the guys who approached Ironbear be so bold and obtrusive if there were a member of staff around, or if there were lots of people nearby working out? My gut instinct says not.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> You would think so, but would the guys who approached Ironbear be so bold and obtrusive if there were a member of staff around, or if there were lots of people nearby working out? My gut instinct says not.


That is true of course if ironbear statements are 100% accurate


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 8, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> It's a tough situation to be in, especially if what you say is true that they did indeed surround you and press-gang you into the fight. I probably would have done the same in your shoes as the chances of me getting beat up by a single person in a ring is a lot less than being beat up by 4-5 people surrounding me.


You have to keep in mind that he was in a gym and not on the streets. Being surrounded in a gym is not the same as being surrounded in the streets.  If they really wanted to test Ironbear's skills then they could have skipped all of the intimidation crap and simply asked him if he wanted to engage in a friendly sparring match instead of calling someone out. If they were going to do something stupid then the ring isn't going to stop them from doing it. 

By entering the ring he is agreeing to engage in combat with the the person in the ring.  For me personally one of my first thoughts when I read the situation was that Ironbear was being sized up and that now they have an idea of how hard he can hit along with his capabilities. 

I think they would have let Ironbear alone had he not let them hype his head up.  I think things would have gone differently had he only responded in a way that would suggest that he's not as good as he appears to be.  It wouldn't hurt Ironbear's reputation or ability if these guys walked away thinking that he couldn't fight.  

This is how I am as a person.  If someone really wants to spar with me then the best way to get me to spar is to ask for a friendly sparring match and not call me names or taunt me.   I will instantly assume that a person is up to no good if they feel the need to pressure me and call me names just so I can spar with them.  Saying that I'm a wuss or afraid is a deal breaker for me.  It may be arrogant of me, but in my mind sparring with me is a privilege for the other person and it's an equal privilege for me to spar with someone else.  Sparring is something done with great respect between the 2 fighter so calling me a wuss is just not a good start.



Phobius said:


> Now to a very important question, will you tell your sifu what happend?


Hopefully he'll have enough brains to not tell his Sifu and make it a personal goal not to fight outside of the school, or martial arts competitions where he represents his school.  The fact that he sparred is not the issue that's going to make his Sifu angry.  It's why he agreed to sparring which will make his Sifu angry and possibly toss him out.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 8, 2016)

I'm not going back through your OP, because it's simply going to take too long… so, a few snippets that leapt out at me.



Ironbear24 said:


> I'm going to avoid situations like that by not going to that gym anymore. I tried the walking away part and it didn't work well.



That's not going to work, though. You can't avoid a situation you've already been in by avoiding a location… you may avoid an exact repeat, but the issue isn't where you are, it's what happens where you are… and much of that comes back to you.



Ironbear24 said:


> Hindsight is 20/20. You're right.



You don't need hindsight, you need presence of mind in the moment. You are sadly lacking pretty much completely in that regard.



Ironbear24 said:


> I was in the right to walk away from it. I got all I needed from the thread so I think you for answering my question.



You didn't walk away. You engaged in a fight. Again.



Ironbear24 said:


> I tried walking away but they didn't let me leave and stood in my way. I was pretty much circled by this group of people and I said alright, I'll do it.
> 
> We got into the gyms boxing ring and honestly, I was nervous. I had no idea who this person was or what his level of experience was. Then when it started it was clear he been doing something. The guy kicked me in the damn shin and that hurt.
> 
> So I figured ok this guy is hitting hard, I'm going to do that too. After some body kicks and some punches the guy called it quits. He walked out of the ring and so did I. I took off the gear and the guy from before said I had talent and he wanted to get me into fighting. That I could make money and to get started.



"I said alright, I'll do it… We got into the gyms boxing ring… So I figured ok this guy is hitting hard, I'm going to do that too…"

You didn't walk away. You engaged in a fight. Again.



pgsmith said:


> So, have you now quit going to your martial arts class? Wasn't it you that told your sifu that you wouldn't get in sparring matches at the gym anymore if he allowed you to continue training with him?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Doesn't matter if it "didn't happen on purpose". It happened. You let it happen. Again. After you promised not to.

Look, I know you'll come back with "it wasn't my fault, they forced me, I tried walking away…" but bluntly, none of that matters. You constantly get into these situations, and, once more, you let yourself be led by your emotions, and quickly gave up trying to talk your way out to once more do exactly what your instructor told you not to. Then, you did possibly the most stupid thing you could have done… you came here to talk about it.

Think about it.

Your previous stories from this site have gotten back to your instructor. Someone here contacted your instructor about them. Your instructor was displeased (to put it mildly). He told you not to engage in fights or "sparring matches" outside the dojo again. You then get into yet another situation, and come here to talk about it… the place where you have someone who has previously reported back to your instructor about you… who likely has followed your story, and knows of your promise… and how it's now been broken (again). 

What makes you think that this won't also be reported back? And what do you think your instructor will think if he hears that you've broken your promise to him, after the lesson he gave you last time?

In the end, the issue is still you. You are emotionally led, hot-tempered, and have a real lack of ability to take responsibility for your actions. Frankly, I still think you should take at least some time off from martial arts entirely… you don't seem to be suited to it at this time in your life.


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## Tez3 (Jul 8, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Your previous stories from this site have gotten back to your instructor. Someone here contacted your instructor about them



I wouldn't be surprised if the instructor has actually read them now after being told about them. You don't have to be a member to read them, something to remember when applying for jobs etc btw.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

The last one was my uncle who called him on the phone and basically gave him a sob story. He didn't read it on here.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 8, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the instructor has actually read them now after being told about them. You don't have to be a member to read them, something to remember when applying for jobs etc btw.


lol.  oooooops.  I guess I need to go back to all my posts and reply.... just joking. lol.  Like they say.  If you don't want someone to know, then don't put it on the Internet.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The last one was my uncle who called him on the phone and basically gave him a sob story. He didn't read it on here.



Do your stories ever stay the same?

Sifu is pissed off.



			
				Ironbear24 said:
			
		

> So apparently an anonymous caller told him about how I "beat up a middle aged man who is out of shape"…


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You have to keep in mind that he was in a gym and not on the streets. Being surrounded in a gym is not the same as being surrounded in the streets.  If they really wanted to test Ironbear's skills then they could have skipped all of the intimidation crap and simply asked him if he wanted to engage in a friendly sparring match instead of calling someone out. If they were going to do something stupid then the ring isn't going to stop them from doing it.
> 
> By entering the ring he is agreeing to engage in combat with the the person in the ring.  For me personally one of my first thoughts when I read the situation was that Ironbear was being sized up and that now they have an idea of how hard he can hit along with his capabilities.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on sparring I'd never spar with someone I don't know outside a controlled environment of my school or any official fight gym. It's far to risky on every level. So many things could go wrong the guy could do serious damage to you or you could do serious damage to them and that gets you in more trouble. I've had random people asking to spar with me since some people know me from my fighting in the ring but I just always say you want to turn up at gym and do a class and then if it works out then maybe we will. The only one time I've sparred outside my gym is in a friends back garden with a friend I've known since I was 5 I'd never do that with a guy I don't know


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Do your stories ever stay the same?
> 
> Sifu is pissed off.


Exactly what I've been saying I've been trying to be nice here but I'm starting to call bs on all this


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## Tez3 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The last one was my uncle who called him on the phone and basically gave him a sob story. He didn't read it on here.



Mm, ok, whatever. However MT is one of the biggest martial arts sites around with international posters as well as American ones. It would be very easy for any martial arts students who trains with you to recognise who you are and point it out to your instructor. That goes for any place you train in the future.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Do your stories ever stay the same?
> 
> Sifu is pissed off.



At the time yeah, thats what I thought and that's what my sifu told me. An anonymous phone call, I always had my hunch it was my uncle as did many other posters here.

It's a matter of process of elimination, who else would care that much to call and tell him about it?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> This didn't happen on purpose.


You stepped into the ring. That was, in fact, your choice. If you try to walk out and they physically restrain you, then you can act. Until then, there's really nothing putting you in a position where you have to fight.

I'm not saying it would be easy. I'm not even saying it would work. What I am saying is that you gave your word to NOT do something, and then you did that thing before you exhausted the alternatives.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> You stepped into the ring. That was, in fact, your choice. If you try to walk out and they physically restrain you, then you can act. Until then, there's really nothing putting you in a position where you have to fight.
> 
> I'm not saying it would be easy. I'm not even saying it would work. What I am saying is that you gave your word to NOT do something, and then you did that thing before you exhausted the alternatives.



I acted out of fear. I didn't want to be physically restrained by 8 people and possibly beat up. I didn't want them to escalate it to that.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I acted out of fear. I didn't want to be physically restrained by 8 people and possibly beat up. I didn't want them to escalate it to that.


And do you think you beating up their buddy wouldve made them happy ajd said okay cool on your way


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I acted out of fear. I didn't want to be physically restrained by 8 people and possibly beat up. I didn't want them to escalate it to that.


So, what did you try? I've been known to simply tell people I suck at fighting. That usually reduces their motivation. If you'd said, "Yeah, I can hit hard, but only if it stands still like that. I'm crap in the ring," they would probably have backed off. Hard to call someone a pussy if they call themselves first.

You could also have agreed to the bout, then simply walked to another part of the gym where other people were. Or hauled *** out of there. Or proposed something alternate that would stall them. Yeah, they'd think you're a coward, but you'd know you were just doing what was right to avoid the need to fight.

Again, I'm not saying there's anything easy about it.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I acted out of fear. I didn't want to be physically restrained by 8 people and possibly beat up. I didn't want them to escalate it to that.



You really put a lot of effort into trying to justify your douchebaggy behavior.
Maybe if you stopped, there might be a chance you'd grow up and stop the behavior instead.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

You know I think I've realised why I'm starting to not believe your stories. They all sound like they come out of a movie. A random guy starting a fight with you at a party you fighting to defend your honour in a gym, getting stabbed for standing up to a gang member, fighting the horrible abisive uncle and putting him in his place, your sifu teaching you right from wrong with a sparring match which you get dominated in and now a sleazy fight promoter forced you into the ring because you had no choice. There's probably about 100 martial art movies with those plots in them


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## Tez3 (Jul 8, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You know I think I've realised why I'm starting to not believe your stories. They all sound like they come out of a movie. A random guy starting a fight with you at a party you fighting to defend your honour in a gym, getting stabbed for standing up to a gang member, fighting the horrible abisive uncle and putting him in his place, your sifu teaching you right from wrong with a sparring match which you get dominated in and now a sleazy fight promoter forced you into the ring because you had no choice. There's probably about 100 martial art movies with those plots in them



Perhaps we are being used as market research/sounding board for a non martial artist writer who is penning his magnum opus?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You know I think I've realised why I'm starting to not believe your stories. They all sound like they come out of a movie. A random guy starting a fight with you at a party you fighting to defend your honour in a gym, getting stabbed for standing up to a gang member, fighting the horrible abisive uncle and putting him in his place, your sifu teaching you right from wrong with a sparring match which you get dominated in and now a sleazy fight promoter forced you into the ring because you had no choice. There's probably about 100 martial art movies with those plots in them



Where is my montage scene and girl at the end?


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Where is my montage scene and girl at the end?


You tell me you're the one writing the stories


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You tell me you're the one writing the stories



The pen is called life. Like I said before, if people don't believe me that's fine, it is impossible to back any of these events without video or a third party to verify them.

In reality though, what would I gain? None of this makes me look cool, none of this makes me look tough or impresses anybody. All it has done is get the majority of the forum to not like me and act rude toward me. If I were to make up stories to tell here wouldn't you think I'd pick more suited ones for the forum?


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The pen is called life. Like I said before, if people don't believe me that's fine, it is impossible to back any of these events without video or a third party to verify them.
> 
> In reality though, what would I gain? None of this makes me look cool, none of this makes me look tough or impresses anybody. All it has done is get the majority of the forum to not like me and act rude toward me. If I were to make up stories to tell here wouldn't you think I'd pick more suited ones for the forum?


Like i said it's all speculation but maybe at first you thought telling us stories about getting in fights would impress us then when it didnt you told us about you getting humbled by your instructor by It, people still said you were in the wrong now trying to prove how much you've changed by constantly telling us in this thread how you were provoked and tried to walk away. Hey maybe these instances did happen but maybe not exactly how you're telling them also the fact what you say is inconsistent raises questions as well


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## Tez3 (Jul 8, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The pen is called life. Like I said before, if people don't believe me that's fine, it is impossible to back any of these events without video or a third party to verify them.
> 
> In reality though, what would I gain? None of this makes me look cool, none of this makes me look tough or impresses anybody. All it has done is get the majority of the forum to not like me and act rude toward me. If I were to make up stories to tell here wouldn't you think I'd pick more suited ones for the forum?



You are getting a lot of attention so I'd say your posts are pitched right for the site. As we don't know you it doesn't matter whether we think you are 'cool' or not, that also goes whether your posts are true or not by the way.
It's interesting though that while you use words like 'cool' and 'make me look tough' you then use a word like 'charlatan' when a user of the former words would use 'scammer', 'conman' or similar, 'charlatan 'is a very literary word don't you think? Just a thought.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You are getting a lot of attention so I'd say your posts are pitched right for the site. As we don't know you it doesn't matter whether we think you are 'cool' or not, that also goes whether your posts are true or not by the way.
> It's interesting though that while you use words like 'cool' and 'make me look tough' you then use a word like 'charlatan' when a user of the former words would use 'scammer', 'conman' or similar, 'charlatan 'is a very literary word don't you think? Just a thought.



I'm a pretty educated guy believe it or not. As for kickboxer, if I were trying to get liked or impress people I would have stopped after the first apparent "story" didn't go well, not continue the same thing expecting different outcomes.

For example, guy at party. I get called a bully and was told I should have walked away.

Sparring over someone saying karate sucks. Same result.

Uncle incident, same result.

Now this one, same result.

That's like 4 times of essentially the same thing not working out to make me look good. I posted them for insight and questioning whether or not I was in the right. Clearly I was not and here I was not as well.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 8, 2016)

My advice.... start a topic that does not involve you fighting with someone....


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 8, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> My advice.... start a topic that does not involve you fighting with someone....


How about a topic that involves me fighting with someone. lol.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 8, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> How about a topic that involves me fighting with someone. lol.


So, I was at a party last week and my drunk uncle got into an argument with JowGaWolf. My uncle said that "Kung Fu doesn't work on the street!" But then JowGaWolf said "Too bad for you we're not on the street, we're in a living room!" Then he threw my uncle through a window. Then JowGaWolf's sifu came in and said "You have brought shame upon our school! Defenestration of drunken dotards is contrary to the ethics of Jow Ga. Now we must fight!"

I was in the middle of chatting up some attractive ladies at the time, but when the fight broke out they said "This party is for losers" and they took off before I could get their phone numbers.

Anyway, my question is, if I lift more weights to build some really muscular arms, will I get invited to better parties where this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time?


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So, I was at a party last week and my drunk uncle got into an argument with JowGaWolf. My uncle said that "Kung Fu doesn't work on the street!" But then JowGaWolf said "Too bad for you we're not on the street, we're in a living room!" Then he threw my uncle through a window. Then JowGaWolf's sifu came in and said "You have brought shame upon our school! Defenestration of drunken dotards is contrary to the ethics of Jow Ga. Now we must fight!"
> 
> I was in the middle of chatting up some attractive ladies at the time, but when the fight broke out they said "This party is for losers" and they took off before I could get their phone numbers.
> 
> Anyway, my question is, if I lift more weights to build some really muscular arms, will I get invited to better parties where this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time?


I laughed way harder than I should've at this haha


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## drop bear (Jul 8, 2016)

Iron bear. You really should jump in the ring. at least then you will be too beat up and tired to fight outside it.

Our guys have their last hard sparring session today.


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## pgsmith (Jul 8, 2016)

I'm going to assume that the OP is indeed just confused, and not trying to troll the entire forum. With that in mind, here are a couple of responses ...



Ironbear24 said:


> This didn't happen on purpose.


  Whether it happened on purpose or not (although you absolutely DID purposely engage in a sparring match) is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that you have now lied to your instructor, thus proving yourself to be a liar with no personal integrity. My questions is  ... What are your plans to fix this rather large personal issue? Seems to me that repairing this rather glaring personality fault should be your first priority, followed closely by figuring out why you keep doing the same ridiculous things. However, you seem to have given this no thought other than to find excuses for yourself.



Ironbear24 said:


> The pen is called life. Like I said before, if people don't believe me that's fine, it is impossible to back any of these events without video or a third party to verify them.
> 
> In reality though, what would I gain? None of this makes me look cool, none of this makes me look tough or impresses anybody. All it has done is get the majority of the forum to not like me and act rude toward me. If I were to make up stories to tell here wouldn't you think I'd pick more suited ones for the forum?


  Seems to me that these stories are well suited to the forum, since they garner you much attention (as has been pointed out already). However, they are getting quite old. Just to recap how they appear to us reading the thread, they all go something like this .... "Hi, I acted like an idiot, is that OK? No? Well, it was only because of (insert excuses here)"  Everything you write about reads that way. Seems to me that you need to be concentrating on why you insist on acting like an idiot rather than continually pushing for acceptance of your idiocy. I'll start reading your threads again when one starts with "Hey, I had my first session with a counselor today to try and sort out my life." Until that time, I think I'm done.

  Good luck.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So, I was at a party last week and my drunk uncle got into an argument with JowGaWolf. My uncle said that "Kung Fu doesn't work on the street!" But then JowGaWolf said "Too bad for you we're not on the street, we're in a living room!" Then he threw my uncle through a window. Then JowGaWolf's sifu came in and said "You have brought shame upon our school! Defenestration of drunken dotards is contrary to the ethics of Jow Ga. Now we must fight!"
> 
> I was in the middle of chatting up some attractive ladies at the time, but when the fight broke out they said "This party is for losers" and they took off before I could get their phone numbers.
> 
> Anyway, my question is, if I lift more weights to build some really muscular arms, will I get invited to better parties where this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Iron bear. You really should jump in the ring. at least then you will be too beat up and tired to fight outside it.
> 
> Our guys have their last hard sparring session today.



I did and it got me in trouble. Within time I will though when the time is right. Plus Australia is a bit far for me.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So, I was at a party last week and my drunk uncle got into an argument with JowGaWolf. My uncle said that "Kung Fu doesn't work on the street!" But then JowGaWolf said "Too bad for you we're not on the street, we're in a living room!" Then he threw my uncle through a window. Then JowGaWolf's sifu came in and said "You have brought shame upon our school! Defenestration of drunken dotards is contrary to the ethics of Jow Ga. Now we must fight!"
> 
> I was in the middle of chatting up some attractive ladies at the time, but when the fight broke out they said "This party is for losers" and they took off before I could get their phone numbers.
> 
> Anyway, my question is, if I lift more weights to build some really muscular arms, will I get invited to better parties where this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time?



I love it. 10/10 rotten tomatoes score of 100% imdb score of 5/5. I can't wait for the sequel.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 8, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So, I was at a party last week and my drunk uncle got into an argument with JowGaWolf. My uncle said that "Kung Fu doesn't work on the street!" But then JowGaWolf said "Too bad for you we're not on the street, we're in a living room!" Then he threw my uncle through a window. Then JowGaWolf's sifu came in and said "You have brought shame upon our school! Defenestration of drunken dotards is contrary to the ethics of Jow Ga. Now we must fight!"
> 
> I was in the middle of chatting up some attractive ladies at the time, but when the fight broke out they said "This party is for losers" and they took off before I could get their phone numbers.
> 
> Anyway, my question is, if I lift more weights to build some really muscular arms, will I get invited to better parties where this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time?


Thank you, I needed this today.


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## Tames D (Jul 8, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You know I think I've realised why I'm starting to not believe your stories. They all sound like they come out of a movie. A random guy starting a fight with you at a party you fighting to defend your honour in a gym, getting stabbed for standing up to a gang member, fighting the horrible abisive uncle and putting him in his place, your sifu teaching you right from wrong with a sparring match which you get dominated in and now a sleazy fight promoter forced you into the ring because you had no choice. There's probably about 100 martial art movies with those plots in them


Ironbear Kid, the Triolgy.
Enter the Ironbear.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 8, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> You really put a lot of effort into trying to justify your douchebaggy behavior.
> Maybe if you stopped, there might be a chance you'd grow up and stop the behavior instead.



Can you honestly say that you have never acted out of fear before? Or are you so cool and amazing that you have defeated fear entirely? Come on now. May I remind you that you weren't there when this incident happened. You weren't the one being confronted like Ironbear was, so you have no right to judge his response. Ironbear said he was scared of getting ganged up on by all the guys if he didn't agree to the fight, and having read his report on what happened, I would have had that same fear. Regardless of what might have happened, he felt threatened enough by these guys to break his promise to his sifu and take the fight. 

I would urge anyone else replying to this thread to remember one crucial thing. NONE OF YOU WERE THERE! You are all passing judgement on Ironbear saying that he could have walked away and not taken the fight, and maybe that was true, but at the time he didn't know that. He didn't know what those guys wanted and what they would have done if he refused to fight. In the same way that a trapped wild animal will attack, regardless of whether those around the animal wish it harm. The animal doesn't know that and so will do whatever it can to protect itself rather than wait too late. I'm not saying Ironbear (despite his name) is an animal, but the base survival instinct exhibited in wild animals exists in all of us.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 8, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> Can you honestly say that you have never acted out of fear before?



Nobody threatened him. Nobody forced him to do anything. They teased him and stood there. His "fear" is purely ego driven. That much is clear from the ongoing saga of his childish, violent, contemptible behavior.

That is assuming he's not making it up, as some have suggested. I don't think that is an entirely unreasonable consideration.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 9, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Nobody threatened him. Nobody forced him to do anything. They teased him and stood there. His "fear" is purely ego driven. That much is clear from the ongoing saga of his childish, violent, contemptible behavior.
> 
> That is assuming he's not making it up, as some have suggested. I don't think that is an entirely unreasonable consideration.



Please reread the OP:



> I tried walking away but they didn't let me leave and stood in my way. I was pretty much circled by this group of people and I said alright, I'll do it.



I don't know about you but if a group surrounded me in that situation I would feel threatened too, even if they didn't actively say it. Acting out of fear is not contemptible in the slightest. I agree that Ironbear's previous acts were childish and ego driven, but this doesn't seem the case here. Now, there is a chance that the group would have let him walk away, but the fact that they surrounded him tells me they wouldn't have. After all, if they were just going to tease him for being a "pussy" and let him go then why surround him? It may just have been an unconscious movement but since we don't know the group's true motives we can't say for sure. Like I said, regardless of whether the act of surrounding Ironbear was intended to be threatening or not, he felt threatened enough to take the fight, out of self preservation. 

There are other things at work here. Reread the follow-up post:



> What is interesting is the guy I had to "fight" didn't even look like he wanted to be doing it. Leaves me to wonder why was he at all?



What is your take on that?


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## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> At the time yeah, thats what I thought and that's what my sifu told me. An anonymous phone call, I always had my hunch it was my uncle as did many other posters here.
> 
> It's a matter of process of elimination, who else would care that much to call and tell him about it?



So you haven't confirmed anything about who made the call, but are now confident to say it wasn't a member here? How difficult do you think it is to figure out where you train, and who you are, out of interest? Hmm… 



Ironbear24 said:


> I acted out of fear. I didn't want to be physically restrained by 8 people and possibly beat up. I didn't want them to escalate it to that.



You were in a public gym. They were asking you to engage one of their group in a sparring match (which, frankly, isn't something overtly plausible in the first place). There was no threat of violence. And really, what do you think their plan was? Ask you to fight, and if you said no, to fight you about it? Dude… if they wanted to beat you up, they wouldn't suggest a fight where 'they would watch out for cheating'… and really, you were so fearful that they'd fight you that you agreed to fight one of them, because…huh?

What I'm saying here is that, no, you didn't act "out of fear".



Ironbear24 said:


> The pen is called life.



Ha! What?



Ironbear24 said:


> Like I said before, if people don't believe me that's fine, it is impossible to back any of these events without video or a third party to verify them.



Well, some kind of plausibility to your stories would help, at least… 



Ironbear24 said:


> In reality though, what would I gain? None of this makes me look cool, none of this makes me look tough or impresses anybody. All it has done is get the majority of the forum to not like me and act rude toward me. If I were to make up stories to tell here wouldn't you think I'd pick more suited ones for the forum?



What would you gain? Attention. Which seems to have been what you're after through all your posts here, after all.



Ironbear24 said:


> I'm a pretty educated guy believe it or not.



Hmm… no, I'm going to choose "not"… if we're talking comparative education, that is… purely objective? Eh, not that impressive, but nothing particularly low end either.



Ironbear24 said:


> As for kickboxer, if I were trying to get liked or impress people I would have stopped after the first apparent "story" didn't go well, not continue the same thing expecting different outcomes.



Actually, your behaviour in your stories indicates that you'd do precisely that… 



Ironbear24 said:


> For example, guy at party. I get called a bully and was told I should have walked away.



And you didn't learn from that.



Ironbear24 said:


> Sparring over someone saying karate sucks. Same result.



And you didn't learn from that.



Ironbear24 said:


> Uncle incident, same result.



And you didn't learn from that.



Ironbear24 said:


> Now this one, same result.



And you didn't learn from that.

And, let's not forget that one of your very first threads here detailed yet another random person (a 63 year old man, apparently), seeing you at a gym, and asking you to spar… completely outclassing you (look, there's a real case to be made for your stories following a particular structure, which doesn't lead me to think much of them are genuine, one of which is your insistence on putting yourself over in a way you feel will make you seem relatable, or humble, or whatever… this is yet another case), but with them telling you that it's just because they're more experienced, and you could be great (which reads as a delusional fantasy, frankly).

And you didn't learn from that.

If any of this happened, of course. And, if not, you haven't learnt from posting your fantasies here, it seems. Either way, you haven't learnt from your actions.



Ironbear24 said:


> That's like 4 times of essentially the same thing not working out to make me look good. I posted them for insight and questioning whether or not I was in the right. Clearly I was not and here I was not as well.



Based on the structure of your arguments and posts, the way they're phrased, and your continued responses, no, you didn't post them for insight. You posted them to put across certain images of yourself to the forum at large, thinking you'd be seen one way (when it was often quite different), such as wanting to be told that you were actually in the right, or that you should "hang in there", or anything else to validate your behaviour. 

You clearly weren't after insight, as frankly, you haven't taken anything on board at all.



Ironbear24 said:


> I did and it got me in trouble. Within time I will though when the time is right. Plus Australia is a bit far for me.



You did what, get in a ring? And that got you in trouble? Are you talking about getting in the boxing ring in this story? How are you in trouble over that (leaving off the forum responses for a minute)? Has the story gotten back to your instructor, and he's finally gotten fed up with your refusal to grow up and take responsibility for your actions and decisions, and kicked you out?

Oh, and I really don't think drop bear was inviting you to his gym, you realise… 



Midnight-shadow said:


> Can you honestly say that you have never acted out of fear before? Or are you so cool and amazing that you have defeated fear entirely? Come on now.



Bluntly, the description given by the OP doesn't match that either. Combine that with his professed actions in this and prior threads, and we have more than enough to put together a pattern of behaviour which can allow us to made certain observations and comments. None of this is taken in a vacuum.



Midnight-shadow said:


> May I remind you that you weren't there when this incident happened.



Honestly, I doubt that the OP was there either… or that it happened at all.



Midnight-shadow said:


> You weren't the one being confronted like Ironbear was, so you have no right to judge his response.



Garbage. He presented his side to us, and that, combined with the previous stories he's presented us with, gives us plenty to judge this new one, and his (claimed) behaviour.



Midnight-shadow said:


> Ironbear said he was scared of getting ganged up on by all the guys if he didn't agree to the fight, and having read his report on what happened, I would have had that same fear. Regardless of what might have happened, he felt threatened enough by these guys to break his promise to his sifu and take the fight.



Well, the only indication is the idea that he was surrounded (after saying no, and being provoked verbally), which lead to him saying yes. Catch is, of course, that this kind of intimidation/stand over tactic is not anything that has any real credibility to it, as it works against the motivations of the group themselves, and doesn't match anything else in the rest of the story.

So no, I don't buy it.



Midnight-shadow said:


> I would urge anyone else replying to this thread to remember one crucial thing. NONE OF YOU WERE THERE! You are all passing judgement on Ironbear saying that he could have walked away and not taken the fight, and maybe that was true, but at the time he didn't know that. He didn't know what those guys wanted and what they would have done if he refused to fight. In the same way that a trapped wild animal will attack, regardless of whether those around the animal wish it harm. The animal doesn't know that and so will do whatever it can to protect itself rather than wait too late. I'm not saying Ironbear (despite his name) is an animal, but the base survival instinct exhibited in wild animals exists in all of us.



And I would urge you to take a wider look at exactly why he's getting the response he is.



Midnight-shadow said:


> Please reread the OP:



I have. Multiple times.



Midnight-shadow said:


> I don't know about you but if a group surrounded me in that situation I would feel threatened too, even if they didn't actively say it. Acting out of fear is not contemptible in the slightest. I agree that Ironbear's previous acts were childish and ego driven, but this doesn't seem the case here.


 
No? I'd say they do… but we might be looking at different behaviours… 



Midnight-shadow said:


> Now, there is a chance that the group would have let him walk away, but the fact that they surrounded him tells me they wouldn't have. After all, if they were just going to tease him for being a "pussy" and let him go then why surround him?



Better question, if they just wanted to have a (semi) legitimate competitive sparring match, one on one with one of their guys, involving protective gear and "no cheating", why would they be asking random guys in a gym? And, when asking someone, receiving a no as a response, then continuing to harass the person by insinuating a lack of manhood and so on, why would they need to continue with intimidation? Does that come across as the action of a group who are genuinely interested in a fair match up? 

Seriously, does any of it sound like it actually could have happened the way he told the story? Or is it more likely that he was hitting the bag at the gym, someone said something like "hey, you hit pretty good!", which lead to a chat, which lead to an offer of sparring (from either the other guy, or from the OP), then the match itself. The story presented here is a way to justify it to us (given previous threads), showing that he "had no choice" but to agree… even the description of the match itself doesn't seem to have much realism to it (not that many of his stories seem to have any).



Midnight-shadow said:


> It may just have been an unconscious movement but since we don't know the group's true motives we can't say for sure. Like I said, regardless of whether the act of surrounding Ironbear was intended to be threatening or not, he felt threatened enough to take the fight, out of self preservation.



If it happened… and that's a big "if".



Midnight-shadow said:


> There are other things at work here. Reread the follow-up post:



Read it.



Midnight-shadow said:


> What is your take on that?



Either the story is at least partially true, in which case the other guy was likely there to take a dive/beating in order to instil in the OP the confidence that he could be successful, and therefore should accept their offer, give them the $800, and embark on his career of being a carnival attraction, or it's just another false element to an already lacking story designed to make us feel something on his side.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 9, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> The story presented here is a way to justify it to us (given previous threads), showing that he "had no choice" but to agree… even the description of the match itself doesn't seem to have much realism to it (not that many of his stories seem to have any).



He doesn't need to justify anything to you, or anyone else on this site. He made this thread to ask whether it was normal for fight promoters or talent scouts to ask for $800 when signing up a new fighter. That is all. He only put the story in there to give a bit of background on the circumstances of the encounter. It had nothing to do with trying to justify his actions or gain the respect of a load of nobody's on the internet. If he had simply said something like: _"I recently got approached by a guy who said they could get me into a fighting career, but I had to pay him $800 for fees and equipment to do it, so I walked away. Was this guy legit and is this sort of thing normal?"_ What would you have said? Would you be judging and interrogating him like some sort of criminal? The story, real or fake, is irrelevant to the reason for this thread being made. Just look at the title of the thread for your answer. The thread wasn't titled "I just had another fight." or "was I wrong to fight for this?", it was "Did I pass up something good, or was it a Charlatan?"


----------



## Chris Parker (Jul 9, 2016)

So… you're able to ascertain the OP's intent, as well as what you feel happened, based on your overly naive reading of the thread and some misplaced sense of false empathy, but when we take into account all of the his posting across the entire board, noting the patterns of behaviour, citing repeated actions, and observing how the various stories are presented, we aren't?

Hmm… honestly, I might suggest that you take a step back, and recognise where our responses are coming from. After all, there's a reason he's getting the same answer from so many…


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 9, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> So… you're able to ascertain the OP's intent, as well as what you feel happened, based on your overly naive reading of the thread and some misplaced sense of false empathy, but when we take into account all of the his posting across the entire board, noting the patterns of behaviour, citing repeated actions, and observing how the various stories are presented, we aren't?
> 
> Hmm… honestly, I might suggest that you take a step back, and recognise where our responses are coming from. After all, there's a reason he's getting the same answer from so many…



The OP asked whether the guy who approached him was genuine or fake, nothing more. You are assuming that just because the OP has exhibited certain behaviour previously that he is doing the same now, and not learned from his mistakes of the past. I can tell from the way he posted in this thread that he has learned from his mistakes of the past and changed his ways. When the first negative comments came in, accusing him of lieing or once again getting into an avoidable fight, he shrugged it off. Compare that to his previous posts where he turned very defensive very quickly when criticized for his behaviour and the difference is obvious. Quite frankly I feel that Ironbear has behaved far better in this thread than either you or Dirty Dog, who have done nothing but accuse him based on events of the past.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Ironbear got the answer he was looking for, and if I were him I would block both you and Dirty Dog and get on with his life. This thread is finished with as far as I'm concerned. Good day.


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 9, 2016)

Please don't make this another storm of people arguing whether or not or why they believe I am an idiot. If you want to think I'm an idiot or a liar or a whatever, go ahead and feel how you will.

There is however no reason to make this thread (which already served its purpose) to be escalated into 20 pages of nonsense.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Jul 9, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Please don't make this another storm of people arguing whether or not or why they believe I am an idiot. If you want to think I'm an idiot or a liar or a whatever, go ahead and feel how you will.
> 
> There is however no reason to make this thread (which already served its purpose) to be escalated into 20 pages of nonsense.


Okay I've got a question why couldn't you just say a fight promoter approached me and said he thought I was good and would promote me but I had to pay 800 was that legit? Why did you have to tell a big long story


----------



## Ironbear24 (Jul 9, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Okay I've got a question why couldn't you just say a fight promoter approached me and said he thought I was good and would promote me but I had to pay 800 was that legit? Why did you have to tell a big long story



Because that's not all that happened.


----------



## Chris Parker (Jul 10, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> The OP asked whether the guy who approached him was genuine or fake, nothing more.



While that's all he asked, it's hardly all he said… after, in his own words:


Ironbear24 said:


> (Because) that's not all that happened.



I mean, the OP itself is quite a read… filled with examples of him being complimented for his technique and performance, examples of why he was in the right (he wasn't), an account of his dominant performance (combined with a comment seemingly designed to show how he's working on his control… hmm), and so on… before we get to the question of whether or not it sounded genuine (and, frankly, if he was close to the "educated" he feels he is, such a question would be completely unnecessary…).

But… nothing more? Care to try again?



Midnight-shadow said:


> You are assuming that just because the OP has exhibited certain behaviour previously that he is doing the same now, and not learned from his mistakes of the past.



You think I'm making assumptions? Seriously?

Look, I get that you're new here… and you're, honestly, fairly young yourself. But the fact of the matter is that I'm making observations based on understanding behaviour, it's structure, it's underlying basis', and far, far more. My comments are purely a response to the way that "Ironbear" presents himself, his behaviour, his thought patterns, and more. And, believe me, there is no indication of learning anything.



Midnight-shadow said:


> I can tell from the way he posted in this thread that he has learned from his mistakes of the past and changed his ways. When the first negative comments came in, accusing him of lieing or once again getting into an avoidable fight, he shrugged it off.



That's not a change from his posting behaviour, though. He's been shrugging off comments for a while… which is, in and of itself, a problem, as it shows that he's not actually taking anything on board (and yes, he's been informed of that previously as well).

The fact that he's continuing to exhibit the same behaviour (online and off) is obvious… the fact that he's "shrugging it off" shows that he's not taking responsibility for any part of it either.



Midnight-shadow said:


> Compare that to his previous posts where he turned very defensive very quickly when criticized for his behaviour and the difference is obvious.



Find me some examples. Going back to the "Fight to Gain Respect" thread, and it's exactly the same… 



Midnight-shadow said:


> Quite frankly I feel that Ironbear has behaved far better in this thread than either you or Dirty Dog, who have done nothing but accuse him based on events of the past.



You do get how behaviour works, yeah? I mean, you do understand that people don't just have clean slates with each new sentence, right? After all, Charlie Manson didn't kill anyone today, so why don't we let him out of prison… after all, why would we judge him on past actions?

Look, when this kid actually shows some growth and acceptance of responsibility, I'll be one of the first to back him… but so far, he seems unable to even come to terms with anything he's done, or see it as genuinely bad. So no, he doesn't get a free pass, and yes, we will use his past as a baseline to apply to his current behaviour. You have an issue with that? Honestly, tough. It's how things work.



Midnight-shadow said:


> Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Ironbear got the answer he was looking for, and if I were him I would block both you and Dirty Dog and get on with his life. This thread is finished with as far as I'm concerned. Good day.



Aren't you precious…


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## pgsmith (Jul 11, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Please don't make this another storm of people arguing whether or not or why they believe I am an idiot. If you want to think I'm an idiot or a liar or a whatever, go ahead and feel how you will.



  Thanks for your permission, but it's really not needed. You've pretty much secured how people will see you based upon your questions and responses. Please notice that I said *your* questions and responses. This means that you are entirely responsible for how others see and react to you. This is a truth that you need to think about in my opinion.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 11, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Thanks for your permission, but it's really not needed. You've pretty much secured how people will see you based upon your questions and responses. Please notice that I said *your* questions and responses. This means that you are entirely responsible for how others see and react to you. This is a truth that you need to think about in my opinion.


Yeah that's my point if this was his first story or if anyone else posted this I'd have no problems believing it but since it's the same pattern every time then I start to have doubts


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 11, 2016)

pgsmith said:


> Thanks for your permission, but it's really not needed. You've pretty much secured how people will see you based upon your questions and responses. Please notice that I said *your* questions and responses. This means that you are entirely responsible for how others see and react to you. This is a truth that you need to think about in my opinion.





Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah that's my point if this was his first story or if anyone else posted this I'd have no problems believing it but since it's the same pattern every time then I start to have doubts



That's fine. The point I'm making is we all have already stated "ironbear is this and that" and I already have had my questions answered; therefore there is no need to prolong this thread by repeating oneself.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 11, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> That's fine. The point I'm making is we all have already stated "ironbear is this and that" and I already have had my questions answered; therefore there is no need to prolong this thread by repeating oneself.


If we want to keep discussing it then we can


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 11, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> If we want to keep discussing it then we can



Then feel free to waste your time repeating yourself.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 11, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Then feel free to waste your time repeating yourself.


Will do thank you for the permission


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## SenseiHitman (Jul 11, 2016)

Some day their con will backfire and they will get what they have coming  I dont know how karma works but I know it works. 


Kickboxer101 said:


> Hate to be that guy but I thought your sifu told you not to get into stupid sparring matches with idiots in the gym. You said you couldn't walk away well what would those guys have done to you in a public area. Also by agreeing to fighting an unknown person that's very risky in itself because as you've stated in your own fights you gave consent to it happening or it could easily have been a set up to get you in trouble since you've probably got a bit of a rep of fighting idiots in gyms.
> 
> But honestly this story is a bit fishy to me. You seem to get into a lot of these situations that you seem to have to post here. Just saying


Hey,  Ironbear24 is a young man so yeah I suspect he gets himself in as much trouble as trouble finds him.  When I was a teenage karate expert I found some trouble for myself from time to time as well so please understand I'm not bashing him.  A young karate man has to deal with all that piss and vinegar flowing in his blood on top of being physically fit, he needs to compete full contact to burn the energy wisely (my opinion).....


----------



## PhotonGuy (Jul 11, 2016)

SenseiHitman said:


> When I was a teenage karate expert I found some trouble for myself from time to time


When I was a teenage karate expert I usually did not find trouble as I did not go looking for it. The exception would be if some other guy took my girlfriend.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 11, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> When I was a teenage karate expert I usually did not find trouble as I did not go looking for it. The exception would be if some other guy took my girlfriend.



I hate when that happens.


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## Tames D (Jul 11, 2016)

There is no such thing as a Teenage Karate Expert.


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## Midnight-shadow (Jul 12, 2016)

Tames D said:


> There is no such thing as a Teenage Karate Expert.



/facepalm


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## Spinedoc (Jul 12, 2016)

I was doing it wrong then...I was a teenage rico suave expert.....


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 12, 2016)

Tames D said:


> There is no such thing as a Teenage Karate Expert.


Until he disliked this, I assumed it was said in a mocking way (as a teenager I assumed I was a karate expert, rather than saying as a teenager I was a karate expert). Now, I'm not so sure...


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## Tames D (Jul 12, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> /facepalm


Did I hit a nerve?


----------



## Chris Parker (Jul 13, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah that's my point if this was his first story or if anyone else posted this I'd have no problems believing it but since it's the same pattern every time then I start to have doubts



If this was his first story, it'd still be full of holes… but, to your point, he would not have received some of the response he has gotten. Thing is, the reason is that this is not his first story… and the pattern of previous stories, continuing in this one, is more than enough to build an impression, likely a fairly accurate one, and one that we can use to apply to this new story. You do understand that that's how people work, yeah? I mean… would you suggest that police ignore prior crimes and offences when detaining someone? Or judges in giving sentences? Patterns of behaviour tell us something… ignoring that because you want to be nice and be all PC doesn't actually do anyone any favours… it enables and supports the behaviour in the person, and leaves everyone else getting frustrated. If you're not a fan of this, I suggest you take a good look around the world, and… hmm, that was going to have a Bill Hicks finish, but it's not exactly appropriate for here, so I'll just say… wake up.



SenseiHitman said:


> Hey,  Ironbear24 is a young man so yeah I suspect he gets himself in as much trouble as trouble finds him.  When I was a teenage karate expert I found some trouble for myself from time to time as well so please understand I'm not bashing him.  A young karate man has to deal with all that piss and vinegar flowing in his blood on top of being physically fit, he needs to compete full contact to burn the energy wisely (my opinion).....



He's not that young… 27… nearing 30. Old enough to have learnt a fair bit by now, and certainly beyond being a "teenage" anything…


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## drop bear (Jul 13, 2016)

So what is the story ironhead? Do you want to compete? In which case random sparring with Barry from the pub won't really help. And you need to find a legitimate outlet.

Or not compete In which case you still should still not be getting into these situations. 

You won't get rich from these fights. Anyone who suggests that is lying. You just get a way of punching dudes in the face that is morally accepted.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

drop bear said:


> So what is the story ironhead? Do you want to compete? In which case random sparring with Barry from the pub won't really help. And you need to find a legitimate outlet.
> 
> Or not compete In which case you still should still not be getting into these situations.
> 
> You won't get rich from these fights. Anyone who suggests that is lying. You just get a way of punching dudes in the face that is morally accepted.



I made a couple of new friends that are willing to spar. We do it at my place so there is no risk of anything stupid happening like there would be in public. The three of us know eachother well so we are comfortable enough that it's a safe experience.

I do want to compete and will compete, as for when I am not sure. My sifu says I am not ready for it yet, so whenever he says I am ready is when I will start.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I made a couple of new friends that are willing to spar. We do it at my place so there is no risk of anything stupid happening like there would be in public. The three of us know eachother well so we are comfortable enough that it's a safe experience.
> 
> I do want to compete and will compete, as for when I am not sure. My sifu says I am not ready for it yet, so whenever he says I am ready is when I will start.


Hmmm this is oddly similar to the advice I gave you a month or so ago...


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Hmmm this is oddly similar to the advice I gave you a month or so ago...



I don't remember that, but I wouldn't deny you did it either. I don't think you've ever given me bad advice. Thanks for that good advice.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I made a couple of new friends that are willing to spar. We do it at my place so there is no risk of anything stupid happening like there would be in public. The three of us know eachother well so we are comfortable enough that it's a safe experience.
> 
> I do want to compete and will compete, as for when I am not sure. My sifu says I am not ready for it yet, so whenever he says I am ready is when I will start.


Good on you man but you've still got to be careful make sure your guys wear proper gear and you don't spar at 100% because if someone gets hurt you've got no first aid like you'd have in class and make sure it's a good environment like sparring in your kitchens not a good idea lol or on concrete


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I don't remember that, but I wouldn't deny you did it either. I don't think you've ever given me bad advice. Thanks for that good advice.


I remember just because you referred to it as a fight club, which I found funny. 
And you're welcome, although I can't say for certain all my advice has been good...I hope it is, but you never know.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Good on you man but you've still got to be careful make sure your guys wear proper gear and you don't spar at 100% because if someone gets hurt you've got no first aid like you'd have in class and make sure it's a good environment like sparring in your kitchens not a good idea lol or on concrete



We have some ufc gloves and no headgear or mouth piece. So we are doing kyokyushin rules which are no hits to the head, it's on dirt ground so no grappling either, I don't feel comfortable grappling if there is no mat.

And yeah no 100% sparring. I want to spar a lot and that would not be ideal if either one of us are too hurt to continue.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> We have some ufc gloves and no headgear or mouth piece. So we are doing kyokyushin rules which are no hits to the head, it's on dirt ground so no grappling either, I don't feel comfortable grappling if there is no mat.
> 
> And yeah no 100% sparring. I want to spar a lot and that would not be ideal if either one of us are too hurt to continue.


Provably best to at least get a mouth piece even in non contact tournaments you have to wear a mouth piece just in case I mean yeah sure your not going for the head but accidents happen and it's not worth losing your teeth over


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Provably best to at least get a mouth piece even in non contact tournaments you have to wear a mouth piece just in case I mean yeah sure your not going for the head but accidents happen and it's not worth losing your teeth over



I'll get one eventually but right now I have like 3 dollars in the bank.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> We have some ufc gloves and no headgear or mouth piece. So we are doing kyokyushin rules which are no hits to the head, it's on dirt ground so no grappling either, I don't feel comfortable grappling if there is no mat.
> 
> And yeah no 100% sparring. I want to spar a lot and that would not be ideal if either one of us are too hurt to continue.



You need groin guards and gum shields. Not necessarily because you can get hurt but because it's better to accustom yourself to wearing them for when you do compete. Wear them when just hitting a bag, any time you are moving around, people don't think of them until they compete and then they can distract you just when you don't need distractions.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You need groin guards and gum shields. Not necessarily because you can get hurt but because it's better to accustom yourself to wearing them for when you do compete. Wear them when just hitting a bag, any time you are moving around, people don't think of them until they compete and then they can distract you just when you don't need distractions.



Ok, I'll get some. I got a cup that I wear to every trip to the dojo. My friends don't have one though so I watch out for that.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Ok, I'll get some. I got a cup that I wear to every trip to the dojo. My friends don't have one though so I watch out for that.



Ah let them worry about not wearing anything lol. Their problem.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Ah let them worry about not wearing anything lol. Their problem.



The one I got was pretty pricey but I am more than willingly to pay more for better protection against death or at least, near death experiences.

I saw one at a yard sale once I couldn't help but gag lol.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Our fighters like the metal groin guards from Thailand which you tie into place except for one lad who was wearing his when he got an upset stomach and had to run to the loo, he was heard frantically shouting as he couldn't get the strings he'd tied into many knots undone.......... Those groin guards wash up quite well.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Our fighters like the metal groin guards from Thailand which you tie into place except for one lad who was wearing his when he got an upset stomach and had to run to the loo, he was heard frantically shouting as he couldn't get the strings he'd tied into many knots undone.......... Those groin guards wash up quite well.



Mine are pretty much in the shape of boxer briefs and you slide the cup in a pocket in he front. I like it because they are comfortable and don't pinch or anything. Wow, that sounds like he had a bad day, I had a similar experience in little league, I called a timeout because I was third baseman and had to go very badly. Lucky for me nothing got dirty because I made it in time though. 

Was pretty embarrassing walking back to third while everyone was clapping lol.


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## Tez3 (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Was pretty embarrassing walking back to third while everyone was clapping lol.



Our chap wasn't embarrassed, nothing did that, he was a Para, absolutely no shame at all lol.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 13, 2016)

What's a para?


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## drop bear (Jul 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I made a couple of new friends that are willing to spar. We do it at my place so there is no risk of anything stupid happening like there would be in public. The three of us know eachother well so we are comfortable enough that it's a safe experience.
> 
> I do want to compete and will compete, as for when I am not sure. My sifu says I am not ready for it yet, so whenever he says I am ready is when I will start.



Fair enough.


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> What's a para?



Para...a member of the elite Parachute Regiment. The Parachute Regiment | Paras


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## drop bear (Jul 14, 2016)

Groin guard story. When a fighter puts his gloves on,they get taped up and signed so he can't take them off and put horse shoes in them or something.


So if his groin guard isn't in then we have to put it in for him.


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## oftheherd1 (Jul 14, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Our chap wasn't embarrassed, nothing did that, he was a Para, absolutely no shame at all lol.



Sounds somewhat US airborne.  Respect to your paras!


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## Tez3 (Jul 14, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> Sounds somewhat US airborne.  Respect to your paras!



The US Airborne is younger that the Parachute Regiment. 

*Field Marshal The Viscount Montgomery:*
"What manner of men are these who wear the maroon red beret? They are firstly all volunteers, and are then toughened by hard physical training. As a result they have that infectious optimism and that offensive eagerness which comes from physical well being. They have jumped from the air and by doing so have conquered fear. Their duty lies in the van of the battle: they are proud of this honour and have never failed in any task. They have the highest standards in all things, whether it be skill in battle or smartness in the execution of all peace time duties. They have shown themselves to be as tenacious and determined in defence as they are courageous in attack. They are, in fact, men apart - every man an Emperor."

Good people for the OP to emulate.


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## Tames D (Jul 16, 2016)

drop bear said:


> So if his groin guard isn't in then we have to put it in for him.


Very sexy.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I made a couple of new friends that are willing to spar. We do it at my place so there is no risk of anything stupid happening like there would be in public. The three of us know eachother well so we are comfortable enough that it's a safe experience.
> 
> I do want to compete and will compete, as for when I am not sure. My sifu says I am not ready for it yet, so whenever he says I am ready is when I will start.



Godsdammit.

Get out of your school now. You have no respect for it, and you have no respect for your teacher. You just want to do what you want to do, which is simply because of your damn ego. 

You were told by your teacher that the condition you were allowed to continue training there under included you not fighting outside of the school (and outside of his direction and supervision, as well as approval). You've spat in his face by going ahead and finding "a couple of new friends that are willing to spar".  I'll put it this way… if one of my students blatantly went against my instructions like that, we would be finished. Instantly. With no going back.

Either get out of his school if you're going to ignore what he tells you, or do what he tells you to do and live with it. Right now, you're just an egotistical kid who can't get it through his head that he goes to his teacher to learn… which means following the instructions you're being given. You don't want to follow what you're told? Fine. But don't disrespect him by then pretending to be his student.

I'm fed up with this. You're a disrespectful punk. Grow up.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

The lesson he tried to get across was to not fight for stupid reasons. Example my uncle talking smack to me, that is a stupid reason. This is not a stupid thing and it is not anger driven, it's simply some friends that get together to spar once in awhile in a safe environment.

He won't have an issue with it. I in fact I even got my gi back recently and passed a belt test, so I'm moving up fairly quickly here which he is proud of.


----------



## Kickboxer101 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The lesson he tried to get across was to not fight for stupid reasons. Example my uncle talking smack to me, that is a stupid reason. This is not a stupid thing and it is not anger driven, it's simply some friends that get together to spar once in awhile in a safe environment.
> 
> He won't have an issue with it. I in fact I even got my gi back recently and passed a belt test, so I'm moving up fairly quickly here which he is proud of.


So you've told him about it then?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> So you've told him about it then?



When he asked me have you been fighting with anyone lately. I said no fighting, just a sparring match with some of my friends. He said what brought that on? I told him that it started out as a joke, which it did. My friend which we will call friend A jokingly said me and friend B should fight since we have all this sparring equipment because friend A bought them for a good deal.

Another friend of mine friens C (don't want to use their names) said I would obliterate him, Friend B laughed and said well I don't know bout obliderate. I said I won't fight anyone unless I have no choice, Friend A then said well ok, not fight but spar.

So we all agreed to spar and we went from acquaintances who simply worked out at the same gym, to friends. We all went to my place and sparred in the back yard where nothing stupid can happen. We then went out for some pizza afterward and talked about our goals. Friend B would like to get into boxing and friend A simply enjoys watching sports like ufc and boxing. Friend C thinks he is too small to fight and said he would like to but is not big enough. He is a about 5'6.

I think he still can since it goes by weight classes after all. Anyway he said that's fine because it wasn't about Ill will. I was given back my gi and took my belt test. I almost failed it because I am allowed only 2 mistakes on the techniques and the kata combined and I made 2 because my feet were a little off.

I then had to stand in a deep horse stance for 5 minutes. That was excruciating, within the first 2 minutes my legs were already on fire and by the third I was trembling. I somehow managed it and got the belt.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> When he asked me have you been fighting with anyone lately. I said no fighting, just a sparring match with some of my friends. He said what brought that on? I told him that it started out as a joke, which it did. My friend which we will call friend A jokingly said me and friend B should fight since we have all this sparring equipment because friend A bought them for a good deal.
> 
> Another friend of mine friens C (don't want to use their names) said I would obliterate him, Friend B laughed and said well I don't know bout obliderate. I said I won't fight anyone unless I have no choice, Friend A then said well ok, not fight but spar.
> 
> ...


Cool but just to warn you it may seem innocent but it easily get out of hand especially with a bunch of gym guys with training and probably got a bit of an ego and one wants to be a boxer. It's very easy to happen


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Cool but just to warn you it may seem innocent but it easily get out of hand especially with a bunch of gym guys with training and probably got a bit of an ego and one wants to be a boxer. It's very easy to happen



I'll look out for that. Thanks.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I'll look out for that. Thanks.


Yeah no worries I'm just trying to give advice I'm not telling you what to do like some certain members here who I do think are giving you to hard a time yeah you've done some dumb stuff and I've told you that but some people are seeming to be acting you've done something personal to them. Fact is I don't know you I can't tell you what to do I've got no right to do that and neither does anyone. And yeah I don't know those guys either they might be very decent guys but if an accident happens because it easily could **** happens then especially if it's on your property you could be liable and I don't know if you work or not but if it does go to far and the other guy turns it up and caused you an Injury you don't want to be going to work busted up


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah no worries I'm just trying to give advice I'm not telling you what to do like some certain members here who I do think are giving you to hard a time yeah you've done some dumb stuff and I've told you that but some people are seeming to be acting you've done something personal to them. Fact is I don't know you I can't tell you what to do I've got no right to do that and neither does anyone. And yeah I don't know those guys either they might be very decent guys but if an accident happens because it easily could **** happens then especially if it's on your property you could be liable and I don't know if you work or not but if it does go to far and the other guy turns it up and caused you an Injury you don't want to be going to work busted up



Everyone will have their opinions. I read them all and take them into consideration, if they are simply just insults though then those I pretty much laugh off. I work at a grocery store pretty much stocking shelves and moving boxes around in the back, I take inventory too and get yelled at in Chinese all the time. 

It's part of the job I guess. It's own by a Chinese family, they speak English but all the profonity is spoken in Mandarin or Cantonese, not sure which one they are speaking. I gone to work busted up before a few times, bruises and stuff and swollen/bruised cheek bones. They show concern and I just tell them it was from karate.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Everyone will have their opinions. I read them all and take them into consideration, if they are simply just insults though then those I pretty much laugh off. I work at a grocery store pretty much stocking shelves and moving boxes around in the back, I take inventory too and get yelled at in Chinese all the time.
> 
> It's part of the job I guess. It's own by a Chinese family, they speak English but all the profonity is spoken in Mandarin or Cantonese, not sure which one they are speaking. I gone to work busted up before a few times, bruises and stuff and swollen/bruised cheek bones. They show concern and I just tell them it was from karate.



might not be profanity, might just be yelling, angry outbursts tend towards ones native langauge


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

I can try to type how it sounds, it might be difficult to decipher though for anyone who knows the language. 

It's usually something like
Pong shiong. Gung shuo sudu gung kwai.

Might not help much but that's usually what's shouted on a couple of occasions.


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## Tez3 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Friend B would like to get into boxing and friend A simply enjoys watching sports like ufc and boxing.



Please tell your 'friend' that the UFC is a registered business ( that has just been sold to a new owner) not a sport. I assume he means MMA, precision is everything.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Please tell your 'friend' that the UFC is a registered business ( that has just been sold to a new owner) not a sport. I assume he means MMA, precision is everything.



Tell which friend? Dana White isn't the owner anymore? That can only mean good things though right?


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## Tez3 (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Tell which friend? Dana White isn't the owner anymore? That can only mean good things though right?



Do you read what you write? Your friend in your quote. Dana White never owned the UFC, he's an employee and is staying on.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Do you read what you write? Your friend in your quote. Dana White never owned the UFC, he's an employee and is staying on.



There was friend A and Friend B. I didn't know that about Dana White, I thought he owned the franchise but I guess not.


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## drop bear (Jul 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> When he asked me have you been fighting with anyone lately. I said no fighting, just a sparring match with some of my friends. He said what brought that on? I told him that it started out as a joke, which it did. My friend which we will call friend A jokingly said me and friend B should fight since we have all this sparring equipment because friend A bought them for a good deal.
> 
> Another friend of mine friens C (don't want to use their names) said I would obliterate him, Friend B laughed and said well I don't know bout obliderate. I said I won't fight anyone unless I have no choice, Friend A then said well ok, not fight but spar.
> 
> ...



Ben Nguyen is 5'4.






Get better at horse stance. You should be able to do 5 minutes.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 18, 2016)

I had worked out at the gym the previous day.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The lesson he tried to get across was to not fight for stupid reasons. Example my uncle talking smack to me, that is a stupid reason. This is not a stupid thing and it is not anger driven, it's simply some friends that get together to spar once in awhile in a safe environment.



No.

You joined his school, and wanted to spar, despite being told that you need to reach a certain rank before being allowed to. You whined and bitched so much your instructor made an exception for you (the first sign of your ego and lack of respect for your teacher and the school, wanting it to be about you not what they are giving you), and you injured a kid (the second sign of disrespect to your school and teacher).

Your third act of lack of respect, frankly, was coming onto the forum to complain about it.

From there, you've shown a pattern of thuggish behaviour, either starting confrontations, or being easily lead into them. These stories got worse, until they got back to your instructor, who tried to talk to you about it. You, in your own words, wouldn't even listen to him, instead continually talking over him (the fourth display of disrespect), leading him to try another way to get through to you by physical means (personally, I would have just kicked you out at that point, for the record). This amounted to you being (physically, but not mentally) humbled by him, and him getting you to agree to _"never get in fights again unless my life depends on it. No sparring with idiots at the gym or in its parking lot, and no fights with relatives or anyone." _In other words, don't fight in any way without his approval and knowledge.

Then we get to this thread, where you again engage in a "sparring match" with "idiots at the gym", whether it happened the way you say in your OP or not (continued disrespect… I really don't think the number of counts matter anymore), it was still a violation of your agreement with him. And now, you have found some "new friends" who you have arranged to have some sparring engagements with (more disrespect).

This is a stupid thing. You don't know what is or is not a "safe environment". You're too emotionally immature to be trusted in this regard. And you have shown nothing but disrespect to your school, your teacher, and more.

Grow up. And get out of your school. If all you want to do is spar, find a school that lets you. But frankly, I think you'd be best served by getting out of martial arts altogether… although I feel you're too ego-driven to even see any of this.



Ironbear24 said:


> He won't have an issue with it. I in fact I even got my gi back recently and passed a belt test, so I'm moving up fairly quickly here which he is proud of.



He _won't_ have an issue with it??? So you are again admitting this is all being done behind his back?

How do you honestly feel your behaviour reflects on you?



Ironbear24 said:


> When he asked me have you been fighting with anyone lately. I said no fighting, just a sparring match with some of my friends. He said what brought that on?



Do you understand what he was asking? And why?



Ironbear24 said:


> I told him that it started out as a joke, which it did. My friend which we will call friend A jokingly said me and friend B should fight since we have all this sparring equipment because friend A bought them for a good deal.
> 
> Another friend of mine friens C (don't want to use their names) said I would obliterate him, Friend B laughed and said well I don't know bout obliderate. I said I won't fight anyone unless I have no choice, Friend A then said well ok, not fight but spar.
> 
> So we all agreed to spar and we went from acquaintances who simply worked out at the same gym, to friends.



So you got easily goaded into breaking your word again? And feel it's okay, because now you're sparring with them, they're "friends"?!?



Ironbear24 said:


> We all went to my place and sparred in the back yard where nothing stupid can happen.



Well, that's one of the most idiotic things you've said… nothing stupid can happen if it's in your backyard? What, is it all padded walls and marshmallows?

You do understand that you still don't really know these guys, they don't know you, and your entire history is of stupid things, no matter where you are?



Ironbear24 said:


> We then went out for some pizza afterward and talked about our goals. Friend B would like to get into boxing and friend A simply enjoys watching sports like ufc and boxing. Friend C thinks he is too small to fight and said he would like to but is not big enough. He is a about 5'6.
> 
> I think he still can since it goes by weight classes after all.



Relevance? Or are you just saying that because you talked about your "goals", you're all friends now?



Ironbear24 said:


> Anyway he said that's fine because it wasn't about Ill will.



It's his call if he wants to accept you breaking your word (again), but if I was in his position, I'd be pointing out that it's still about your ego, and you seem to have learnt nothing. I urge you to examine why you constantly find yourself in these situations… I mean, I've been involved in martial arts longer than you've been alive, and I don't have so many random people wanting to spar with me at all… and, on the rare occasions someone finds out what I do, and suggests it, I simply tell them I don't spar. That's it.



Ironbear24 said:


> I was given back my gi and took my belt test. I almost failed it because I am allowed only 2 mistakes on the techniques and the kata combined and I made 2 because my feet were a little off.



Relevance?



Ironbear24 said:


> I then had to stand in a deep horse stance for 5 minutes. That was excruciating, within the first 2 minutes my legs were already on fire and by the third I was trembling. I somehow managed it and got the belt.



And, frankly, what does that mean to us? You had to actually do something you found difficult… so?


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> And, frankly, what does that mean to us? You had to actually do something you found difficult… so?



It's martial talk, so I talk about my martial arts experiences. I don't understand why you continue to message me for if you dislike me so much. For about the fourth time you have said that you would kick me out of your dojo if you were him, I get it. I understood it the first time.

The sparring was not about ego for me, it was about working on technique. Trying to improve. The message he had told me was no fighting or sparring for stupid reasons. The key phrase here being stupid reasons, what is so stupid about having fun with friends?


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> It's martial talk, so I talk about my martial arts experiences. I don't understand why you continue to message me for if you dislike me so much. For about the fourth time you have said that you would kick me out of your dojo if you were him, I get it. I understood it the first time.


Ironbear... He's bullying you. That's what he does. He's good at it. He never has anything good to say. He loves to tell people they are wrong. He thinks hes God's gift to martial arts. Either man up to him or back down. Remember, he's just a bully. It's in your court.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

Tim, frankly mate, your behaviour is far more deplorable than mine has ever been. You don't want to head down that path again.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

My point is Chris, we all know how you feel about me. So why do you feel the need to always remind me and everyone else what they already know? In the past you said constructive things to me before but now its like you are just trying to hard get some sort of rise out of me.

My sifu has accepted that I am getting better, that is all that matters, because he is my instructor. No one else here is.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Tim, frankly mate, your behaviour is far more deplorable than mine has ever been. You don't want to head down that path again.


Are you threatening me Chris?


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> It's martial talk, so I talk about my martial arts experiences.


 
The question was what relevance those parts of the story had. Yes, it's martial talk, which is a forum… and one of the rules is to keep things on topic as much as possible… so I was wondering what relevance it had. Kay?



Ironbear24 said:


> I don't understand why you continue to message me for if you dislike me so much.



Well, for one thing, I don't dislike you. I don't like you, either, of course. For another, I continue to post because I believe in not letting poor information or ideas stand unopposed. And I do tend to call out idiocy when I see it.



Ironbear24 said:


> For about the fourth time you have said that you would kick me out of your dojo if you were him, I get it. I understood it the first time.



No, you didn't.



Ironbear24 said:


> The sparring was not about ego for me, it was about working on technique. Trying to improve. The message he had told me was no fighting or sparring for stupid reasons.



Your entire reason for sparring at all has always been about ego.



Ironbear24 said:


> The key phrase here being stupid reasons, what is so stupid about having fun with friends?



The "stupid" is two fold… one, you're actively going against the wishes of your instructor, who says not to spar before a particular level. Two, you really don't know these guys, and are going into a situation where you are not in control. Actually, there's more, but that's more than enough to call it "stupid" in the first place.



Ironbear24 said:


> My point is Chris, we all know how you feel about me. So why do you feel the need to always remind me and everyone else what they already know? In the past you said constructive things to me before but now its like you are just trying to hard get some sort of rise out of me.



Then you haven't been listening.



Ironbear24 said:


> My sifu has accepted that I am getting better, that is all that matters, because he is my instructor. No one else here is.



This is one thing we agree on. What I am hoping is that you will also start to look at yourself and take responsibility for your actions.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Your bullying tactics don't work on me Mentor Chris..


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Are you threatening me Chris?



No, Tim. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in your words and actions, and reminding you that you have few, if any legs to stand on.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> No, Tim. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in your words and actions, and reminding you that you have few, if any legs to stand on.


Chris, we have a serious difference of opinion here. I'll ask again, are you challenging me?


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> You don't want to head down that path again.


Sounds like a threat to me. I don't react well to threats...


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

No, Tim. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in your words and actions, and reminding you that you have few, if any legs to stand on.

You have made multiple baseless accusations in the past, and have had no ability to back them up. You have applied the usage of the rating system here to put forth an agenda based, not on the posts themselves, but on the posters themselves. You have been a bitter, angry soul for a long time now, since announcing a certain change in your life (which we all hoped was for the better). 

Frankly, you have the credibility of a snake in this regard, and have nothing of value to offer. You simply pursue personal agendas, and are a toxic element to this forum. Your comments in the back-rooms of the forum show you are very happy with your double-standards, and have no intention of changing.

You are, simply, a spoilt child acting out a persecution complex, and projecting it onto others.

If you are threatened by that, or feel it's a challenge, that's your own issue. I only deal in facts.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> No, Tim. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in your words and actions, and reminding you that you have few, if any legs to stand on.
> 
> You have made multiple baseless accusations in the past, and have had no ability to back them up. You have applied the usage of the rating system here to put forth an agenda based, not on the posts themselves, but on the posters themselves. You have been a bitter, angry soul for a long time now, since announcing a certain change in your life (which we all hoped was for the better).
> 
> ...


Yes Chris, divert the attention away from your bully nature. You are a grown man. And yet all you do is tell everyone they are wrong and you are right . Every post you make is telling someone they are wrong and you are the expert. I won't continue to argue this point with you because it's so obvious and ridiculous. You don't see it, or don't want to see it. You find nothing good in people. You attack the weak. You are a big man.


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## Ironbear24 (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> This is one thing we agree on. What I am hoping is that you will also start to look at yourself and take responsibility for your actions.



And we both know there is nothing I can do or say to show that right now, that is something that is shown with time and how I deal with life situations as they come up.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Yes Chris, divert the attention away from your bully nature. You are a grown man. And yet all you do is tell everyone they are wrong and you are right . Every post you make is telling someone they are wrong and you are the expert. I won't continue to argue this point with you because it's so obvious and ridiculous. You don't see it, or don't want to see it. You find nothing good in people. You attack the weak. You are a big man.



What the hell happened to you, man? Seriously, I'm wanting to know. You used to be reasonable, intelligent, good to talk to. These days? You accuse me of being a fraud behind closed doors (where I couldn't see or answer), when you get called on that, you say "those that know, know" and "it's common knowledge", then refuse to actually bring any evidence forth or retract your statements (here's a hint: you couldn't possibly back your statements up)… instead, choosing to pursue this bizarre agenda throughout the forum. You went into the Mentors area to tell everyone who should and shouldn't be a Mentor, based on your personal ideas of how they should behave, then when it's pointed out that you don't follow that yourself, you say you're not a Mentor (but had access due to being one in the past), so you don't have to follow even the example you set yourself…

Really… what happened to you?



Ironbear24 said:


> And we both know there is nothing I can do or say to show that right now, that is something that is shown with time and how I deal with life situations as they come up.



Well, that's patently incorrect. While it is something that is shown through situations as they come up, you've had multiple situations, and haven't shown anything of the kind. And that's what we've been looking for (myself, Dirty Dog, and more). But yes, you absolutely can show that you're taking responsibility for your actions and behaviour… by actually taking responsibility for them.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> And we both know there is nothing I can do or say to show that right now, that is something that is shown with time and how I deal with life situations as they come up.


Ironbear, STOP bowing down to this guy.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> And we both know there is nothing I can do or say to show that right now, that is something that is shown with time and how I deal with life situations as they come up.


Ironbear, STOP bowing down to this guy.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> What the hell happened to you, man? Seriously, I'm wanting to know. You used to be reasonable, intelligent, good to talk to. These days? You accuse me of being a fraud behind closed doors (where I couldn't see or answer), when you get called on that, you say "those that know, know" and "it's common knowledge", then refuse to actually bring any evidence forth or retract your statements (here's a hint: you couldn't possibly back your statements up)… instead, choosing to pursue this bizarre agenda throughout the forum. You went into the Mentors area to tell everyone who should and shouldn't be a Mentor, based on your personal ideas of how they should behave, then when it's pointed out that you don't follow that yourself, you say you're not a Mentor (but had access due to being one in the past), so you don't have to follow even the example you set yourself…
> 
> Really… what happened to you?
> 
> ...


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> You accuse me of being a fraud behind closed doors (where I couldn't see or answer),


Chris, I'd like to know who violated the NDA. Please let me know. This is a big deal.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 19, 2016)

No-one. I didn't sign one. But with the changeover of software, there was a time when certain areas were accessible. And I'm only bringing in things that are directly related to me here, nothing else seen… although I didn't sign any NDA, I do want to abide by it in spirit.


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## Tames D (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> No-one. I didn't sign one. But with the changeover of software, there was a time when certain areas were accessible. And I'm only bringing in things that are directly related to me here, nothing else seen… although I didn't sign any NDA, I do want to abide by it in spirit.


Hmmm. Don't believe you. Sorry.


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## Tez3 (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> But with the changeover of software, there was a time when certain areas were accessible.



This is true because that's when I saw that the same poster and another were saying about me. I did also see things being said about Chris because both he and I were mentioned in the same posts.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 19, 2016)

Thread locked pending staff review.


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## Grenadier (Jul 19, 2016)

*Admin's Note:*

This is a reminder that there is an ignore feature that is part of the forum software.  If you don't like what someone has to say, then use this tool.  

It doesn't matter "who started what."  If you engage in mudslinging, you are responsible for your own behavior.


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