# Kali



## Fightfan00 (Aug 8, 2003)

Hello everyone!I seem to be interested in a few diffrent arts 1 being Kali.In anyones opinion would it be fitting to learn this art first and go to another that i'm interested like judo,or kun tao?Or learn one of those bigger arts first?I hope this makes sense.lol


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## pesilat (Aug 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Fightfan00 _
> *Hello everyone!I seem to be interested in a few diffrent arts 1 being Kali.In anyones opinion would it be fitting to learn this art first and go to another that i'm interested like judo,or kun tao?Or learn one of those bigger arts first?I hope this makes sense.lol *



Not sure what you mean by "learn these bigger arts first"  I'm guessing that you have a very limited appreciation for what "Kali" entails.

I think that Kali makes a very good "first art" - but it's also a very complete art. A lot of people make the erroneous assumption that "Kali" is just sticks (or just weapons). Nothing could be furhter from the truth. I wouldn't hesitate to match the empty hands of the Filipino arts against any other empty hand system out there. And you get weapons.

Now, that having been said, it is a weapon based art. It has groundfighting, but groundfighting isn't its specialty. It has joint locking, but joint locking isn't its specialty. Weapons are its specialty. But it is well-rounded and will give you tools for every range both with and without weapons. And it'll give you an understanding of weapons in general so you can pick up virtually anything and use it as a weapon.

Mike


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## Cruentus (Aug 10, 2003)

Don't get confused about "Kali" somehow being a broader art, and other arts being more "focused."

Kali, Arnis, Eskrima, are all the same thing, basically, even if by definition they are not. There is no "broad' system. What differes is what "style" you are actually training in, and who you are training with.

So...find a good instructor, and have a blast!  :duel:


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## Fightfan00 (Aug 11, 2003)

Thanks for setting me straight fellas.I didnt mean to offend anyone or to imply that the style is insignifigant.I'm sorry if I made it sound that way.I'm glad that you guys explained it better for me to understand.I'm very interested in Kali but also judo,jujitsu,aikido,and kun tao so I just have to make a decision and stick with 1 or 2 of the arts for now.


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## lhommedieu (Aug 11, 2003)

Mark Wiley's Filipino Fighting Arts contains desciptions of about twenty different styles.  There are omissions, however:  many of which can be found at the FAQ site of the Eskrima Digest.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Master of Blades (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lhommedieu _
> *Mark Wiley's Filipino Fighting Arts contains desciptions of about twenty different styles.  There are omissions, however:  many of which can be found at the FAQ site of the Eskrima Digest.
> 
> Best,
> ...



I have that book, very good book, lots of information etc But I didnt have a few Filipino arts I was interested in. Cant remember the names right now though....


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## Cthulhu (Aug 19, 2003)

I thought the absence of Pekiti-Tirsia and Pambuan Arnis was odd.

Cthulhu


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cthulhu _
> *I thought the absence of Pekiti-Tirsia and Pambuan Arnis was odd.
> 
> Cthulhu *



The book does its' best, yet it has left some things out and has errors in other areas. Mark, got most of his information from interviews, so if he could not get an interview in the PI Ibeleive it did not make it.


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## lhommedieu (Aug 19, 2003)

Several of the people interviews took place here in the United States.  The absence of some FMA's was indeed a shame - but _something_ would have been left out no matter what was included, given the limitations of the medium.

This is something that could have been addressed in a second volume; unfortunately the market for books about Filipino martial arts is limited and perhaps marketing decisions had something to do with the absence of a sequel.

With respect to errors:  as most of the chapters were based on interviews, many of the "errors" were made by those interviewed.
Wiley gets a lot of knocks - but no one else has gone to the trouble of researching, writing, editing, and publishing 4 books on the Filipino martial arts.  If someone else can do a better job, the field is wide open...

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lhommedieu _
> *Several of the people interviews took place here in the United States.  The absence of some FMA's was indeed a shame - but something would have been left out no matter what was included, given the limitations of the medium.
> 
> This is something that could have been addressed in a second volume; unfortunately the market for books about Filipino martial arts is limited and perhaps marketing decisions had something to do with the absence of a sequel.
> ...



Steve,

I  said I believe. Now I know better. Thank You.

I was not making a bad comment about Wiley. I was just sad that it had occurred. Yes he has tried to research the history, and in a verbal history culture, things are going to very.

Thanks for the followup.

:asian:


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## Master of Blades (Aug 20, 2003)

I dont believe anyone was knocking Mr Wiley, I myself am very happy my Dad got me that book. All I was saying was that it missed a few of the Filipino arts I wanted to read up on, but in a massive world of Filipino arts thats bound to happen. Still a great writer! 


Speaking of writers does anyone know of a writer/book which lists or talks about the differant Blades/Stick types of the Filipino arts. I know there is slight mentions in the Mark Wiley book but I was looking for something more detailed.


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## lhommedieu (Aug 20, 2003)

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that anyone here was knocking Wiley (who I know of, but don't know personally).  His books and opinions have come under some criticism at other times and in other forums - which is what you might expect happens when someone does something that breaks ground.  For example, there was the "Kali is the mother art" debate, which has, hopefully, been laid to rest - as well the aforementioned "errors" issue.

Filipino martial artists have a well-deserved reputation for their tenacity, and it is no surprise that verbal debates mirror that aspect of their fighting spirit.   What everyone hopes for, of course is _another_ Filipino martial arts book that delves into the rich history of this culture.  Personally, I would welcome a book about, say, the history of Filipino martial arts in Cebu circa during the first half of the 20th Century, or biographies of the Saavedra, Illustrisimo, and Romo families, e.g.


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## James Kovacich (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lhommedieu _
> *Mark Wiley's Filipino Fighting Arts contains desciptions of about twenty different styles.  There are omissions, however:  many of which can be found at the FAQ site of the Eskrima Digest.
> 
> Best,
> ...



I have a couple of Mark Wileys books which I bought so that I could read something similar to what I've recently being taught. My Uncle is an old school Kenpo Black belt and he's been learning Serrada from an Inayan Instructor. As soon as I feel a little better about my training I'll be training with the whole group as well.

Enough of the chatter. I thought that it was interesting that Wiley was one of 16 that were certified Master Instructor by Angel Cabales. Others such as Inay, Inosanto, Latosa... were listed as Advanced Instuctors. Of course they've all gone on to do great things with their arts. I'm assuming that reaching the second teaching level in Caballes Serrada is an accomplishment in itself.

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Aug 28, 2003)

It would appear that Angel Caballes was very selective with who he allowed to be his master instructors....as it should be in my opinion!


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 28, 2003)

hey guys,
       now i'm not doing this to break balls or be an ***. just a technical correction because i feel it's  useful. angel cabales with just one l , in case some one wants to search the web.

                                                                          thanx


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## OULobo (Aug 29, 2003)

Since we are on the subject of Cabales Serrada Eskrima soes anyone know who the #12 certificate was.


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## sercuerdasfigther (Aug 29, 2003)

jerry preciado, but i don't believe the new grand master recongnizes his rank.


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## James Kovacich (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by sercuerdasfigther _
> *jerry preciado, but i don't believe the new grand master recongnizes his rank. *



The new Grandmaster is his son Vincent. I know there was some controversy before Angels death about someone trying to trick Angel into desinating them "heir" to the system. Don't know who they were but I'm sure that it was probably Angel who initiated the non-recognition after he found out what was going on.

But there are 2 sides to every story and I don't know the parties involved are. I just remember hearing something about it.


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## Stickfighter72 (Aug 29, 2003)

Not to bring up the past, but since were on the subject.   Im a somewhat new student in the Serrada Escrima, so I was doing some searching and found this..it helped clear up some dead ends.

http://www.dennisservaes.com/martial_truth.html

thanks


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