# kravmaga, kali and west boxing



## Cibirsk (Jul 31, 2019)

Hi,
In september I’ll have the opportunity to train in kravmaga, kali and west boxing in the same club.
What are the difference between krav and kali ?
Do they both could be compatible or complementary ?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

Cibirsk said:


> Hi,
> In september I’ll have the opportunity to train in kravmaga, kali and west boxing in the same club.
> What are the difference between krav and kali ?
> Do they both could be compatible or complementary ?


Well first of all they are two entirely different arts. Its like comparing apples and oranges. 

In a place that's teaching those three, im going to make an assumption based on generalizations, and say that boxing will be boxing, kali will be all weapon work, and krav maga will be everything else.


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## Buka (Jul 31, 2019)

Welcome to Martial Talk, Cibirsk.  

As for those Arts, sure as heck one way to find out. Enjoy it, I'll bet you're going to have some fun.

And I'd like to hear _your_ take on those arts as you're introduced to them.


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## dvcochran (Jul 31, 2019)

Mostly what @kempodisciple and @Buka said, however if you practice kali long enough you will work back to empty hands. It is a knife and stick fighting style. Krav is very self defense minded with rolling added (short answer). Boxing is well, boxing. Go in with an open mind and have fun with it.


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Well first of all they are two entirely different arts. Its like comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> In a place that's teaching those three, im going to make an assumption based on generalizations, and say that boxing will be boxing, kali will be all weapon work, and krav maga will be everything else.



The thing is all the hand striking options that exist. Exist in boxing. 

So. If you want to box and apply hubad or defang. You can. 

If you want to box and apply bursting. You can. 

Apart from obvious things like you can't headbutt or eyegouge. The basic mechanics are applicable.

In martial arts apples are oranges.

(Like that? I just made it up.)


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

So if we look at 52 blocks. It is a mash up of boxing, trapping and gunting.






I don't like it. I think it is overly complicated. But you can employ it within a boxing context.

I do wavy elbow block from time to time


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> The thing is all the hand striking options that exist. Exist in boxing.
> 
> So. If you want to box and apply hubad or defang. You can.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but you dont do any stick or knife fighting in boxing. Most krav places (i know of) dont teach those either, just defenses. And krav theoretically teaches throws and junk, while boxing doesn't.


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Yeah, but you dont do any stick or knife fighting in boxing. Most krav places (i know of) dont teach those either, just defenses. And krav theoretically teaches throws and junk, while boxing doesn't.



Ok. But that seems like an endorsement to do all three. Rather than it be an issue.

Otherwise when you create a rule set you promote techniques to an importance that they otherwise don't have and it forces you to develop them. 

And so very basically. Wrestling will teach you that changing levels with your head up is vital. Where boxing won't as much. 

Even though it is important not to duck your head in boxing. 

So doing a wrestling taught movement assists my boxing movement.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Ok. But that seems like an endorsement to do all three. Rather than it be an issue.


I didn't realize i was endorsing it, or saying it was an issue


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I didn't realize i was endorsing it, or saying it was an issue



Sorry. I edited some more stuff in. 

But you do do stick and knife in boxing.

Mobile footwork is stick and knife fighting. Striking off that footwork is stick and knife fighting.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Mobile footwork is stick and knife fighting. Striking off that footwork is stick and knife fighting.



Except I don't really think it is. The footwork for stick and knife fighting is not the same as for empty hand. The striking movements for stick and knife fighting are not the same as for empty hand.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Sorry. I edited some more stuff in.
> 
> But you do do stick and knife in boxing.
> 
> Mobile footwork is stick and knife fighting. Striking off that footwork is stick and knife fighting.


The footwork between the two is different. Very different. And either way, you dont use boxing punches in kali, and there are hand manipulations for sticks that you dont need in boxing. Otherwise when i switched from kickboxing to kali, i wouldnt have needed to learn anything new.


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> The footwork between the two is different. Very different. And either way, you dont use boxing punches in kali, and there are hand manipulations for sticks that you dont need in boxing. Otherwise when i switched from kickboxing to kali, i wouldnt have needed to learn anything new.



Not so much when you apply it to a dog brothers style of fight.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Not so much when you apply it to a dog brothers style of fight.


Nah, even when you do. If you give a boxer a stick and have him go to one of those, with no other training, he's going to have a bad time.


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## drop bear (Jul 31, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Nah, even when you do. If you give a boxer a stick and have him go to one of those, with no other training, he's going to have a bad time.



Yeah. It is a mash up of Kali and other things.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 31, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Yeah. It is a mash up of Kali and other things.


Yup. Which means all those things are different, if you have to learn them to compete...


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 31, 2019)

Knock yourself out with all 3 if you have the time for  it and are interested in all 3 and can afford it.   

But yes, they are all diffrent, i would say some aspects of all could compliment each other pending what style of kali and krav maga organization.  And your goals obviously.

I would say FMA (what i am now going to use to refer to kali from now on) definately gives a appreciation for weapons at the end of the day so it might compliment the krav weapon stuff.  (which is basically just disarms at the end of the day)  

What style of FMA is it anyway?  (if its just a local style and dont want to semi dox your self thats fine)


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## drop bear (Aug 1, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Yup. Which means all those things are different, if you have to learn them to compete...



So you wind up with a sort of Apple orange.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 1, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Sorry. I edited some more stuff in.
> 
> But you do do stick and knife in boxing.
> 
> Mobile footwork is stick and knife fighting. Striking off that footwork is stick and knife fighting.


While I think you could teach knife and stick fighting off boxing footwork, that doesn't make it the same as Kali - the angles and defenses are significantly different. I could see someone blending the two - changing some of the boxing base and some of the Kali approach. But they'd need to adjust each a bit (maybe quite a bit - my background in each is pretty thin) to blend them.


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## Cibirsk (Aug 1, 2019)

> I would say FMA (what i am now going to use to refer to kali from now on) definately gives a appreciation for weapons at the end of the day so it might compliment the krav weapon stuff. (which is basically just disarms at the end of the day)


That’s why Kali interrest me. The capacity if using weapons help unterstand them. And boxing for the movement and diplacement .


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## Flying Crane (Aug 1, 2019)

Cibirsk said:


> Hi,
> In september I’ll have the opportunity to train in kravmaga, kali and west boxing in the same club.
> What are the difference between krav and kali ?
> Do they both could be compatible or complementary ?


I suggest you choose one and focus on that.  Later you might be ready to add another system to your training.

As a beginner, I suspect that training three different methods at the same time will lead to slow or no real progress in any of them and that will simply be frustrating.


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## Headhunter (Aug 1, 2019)

There's nothing in boxing that isn't in Krav Maga and I don't know anything about Kali but I know Krav Maga (at my least my organisations system ) does have basic stick fighting where it teaches how to hit with a stick and how to block a stick with another stick and counter with it. So seems a good blend


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## drop bear (Aug 1, 2019)

Headhunter said:


> There's nothing in boxing that isn't in Krav Maga and I don't know anything about Kali but I know Krav Maga (at my least my organisations system ) does have basic stick fighting where it teaches how to hit with a stick and how to block a stick with another stick and counter with it. So seems a good blend



Especially if it is all under the same roof.


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