# What is a better self defense weapon knife or baton?



## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?


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## jobo (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?


all things being equal id pick the baton, not least as it reduces the likely hood that the other guy will end up dead, which tends to complicate your life some what


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 6, 2019)

Which ever you will carry more reliably, the knife has more killing potential a baton tends to give more reach.   (for what you can conceal carry anyway)  

Or can legally carry/own for that matter.      I would suggest pursuing carrying some form of chemical spray as well if its legal maybe a pistol.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 6, 2019)

Along with what rat said, whichever you will carry more reliably (and know if either are banned in your country/province/state), AND can reach easily (if you keep a baton in your backpack, not very helpful).

Beyond that, whichever one you're more comfortable with. Personally in a fight I'd be happy to have either (or one of each or two of one), but that depends on your training in both using the weapon, and in weapon retention.


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## Anarax (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?



Personally I think a fixed 7 inch blade is a bit much for everyday carry, I also want my SD weapon concealed. A baton offers more range and versatility(striking, locks, chokes, etc)


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Along with what rat said, whichever you will carry more reliably (and know if either are banned in your country/province/state), AND can reach easily (if you keep a baton in your backpack, not very helpful).
> 
> Beyond that, whichever one you're more comfortable with. Personally in a fight I'd be happy to have either (or one of each or two of one), but that depends on your training in both using the weapon, and in weapon retention.


Want to add in, ill typically carry a knife or something that can be used as a knife when i go into the city, and when im driving i have a pair of heavy escrima sticks in my car. So i guess both?


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## Buka (Jul 6, 2019)

Knife.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 6, 2019)

Sure.


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## Buka (Jul 6, 2019)

I think we should carry knives _and_ wooden batons. Then we could learn to whittle.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> Which ever you will carry more reliably, the knife has more killing potential a baton tends to give more reach.   (for what you can conceal carry anyway)
> 
> Or can legally carry/own for that matter.      I would suggest pursuing carrying some form of chemical spray as well if its legal maybe a pistol.



So knife ok gotcha.



Anarax said:


> Personally I think a fixed 7 inch blade is a bit much for everyday carry, I also want my SD weapon concealed. A baton offers more range and versatility(striking, locks, chokes, etc)



I carry my fixed blade concealed. 

I have also carried concealed 
Brass knuckles
sap
Blackjack
monkey fist
rock in sock
lock on chain
nunchaku
manriki chain
ninja climbing claws
4 oz can of pepper spray
Expandable baton
non-expandig baton Though I can only conceal carry this in the winter cause it gets to hot to wear a jacket during the summer.

I could carry a gun concealed with no permit legally but I have never been big into guns. 



Buka said:


> Knife.



Please elaborate?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?


That depends what you want it to do. For ending a fight decisively, I'd probably give the edge (no pun intended) to the bladed weapon. For gaining options to control/defend with less chance of doing serious harm, the baton is better.

For me, I'd personally prefer the baton. I'm more skilled with it, and likely at less risk if it ends up in the other guy's hands.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 6, 2019)

Buka said:


> I think we should carry knives _and_ wooden batons. Then we could learn to whittle.
> 
> View attachment 22323


While that would be a waste of a good purpleheart baton, it would make for a really nice little carved figurine.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So knife ok gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know what area you're in, but in most places in the US, a lot of that is illegal to carry. In many places, a blade that large is illegal to conceal (but legal to carry open).


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## jobo (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So knife ok gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd move to another city, if you have to walk round with that kit


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I don't know what area you're in, but in most places in the US, a lot of that is illegal to carry. In many places, a blade that large is illegal to conceal (but legal to carry open).



Feel free to move to South Dakota.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Feel free to move to South Dakota.


I'd check local laws if you haven't already. I've yet to find a place in the US (mind you, I've not looked anything like everywhere, so probably some places exist) where blackjacks/slapjacks and brass knuckles aren't generally illegal.

Me, I'll stay where I am.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I'd check local laws if you haven't already. I've yet to find a place in the US (mind you, I've not looked anything like everywhere, so probably some places exist) where blackjacks/slapjacks and brass knuckles aren't generally illegal.
> 
> Me, I'll stay where I am.



Already have and can I get my penny? You told me to check my laws and everytime someone tells me to do that I charge them a penny. So far I am halfway to buying my own 700 dollar knife.


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## Buka (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So knife ok gotcha.
> 
> 
> Please elaborate?



Just personal choice. Even with all the baton training I've done, I am better trained as a knife fighter.

And as a bonus (Ding! Ding! Ding!) with a good knife I can go find a decent stick and make a suitable baton.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 6, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> brass knuckles



ironically, Canada define brass knuckles as a band of metal so plastic and non metal ones are allowed.  last time i heard of this anyway, laws are always changing and debated on.  



jaime_lion said:


> I could carry a gun concealed with no permit legally but I have never been big into guns.



I would go with a pistol, its the superior weapon out of all of them, carry a knife with it so you have a CQC weapon and maybe OC spray for a less than lethal ranged one.  Obviously only if you want to actually carry it and will and get sufficient education and training in all to use them safely, legally and reliably.     firearms training which isn't based on SD can get a little ehh in terms of using firearms from the draw in close range situations where your fists or a knife would work better.  Depends on the place and course and scope of the course and instructor.  Not everyone is a prodigy of their time to teach things or as good as each other or have the same views and experiences.  


Oh by my reasoning of superior weapon is a pistol, at least as a concealed carry weapon.   It can be used at range and point blank and has a shock wave going along with the rounds, so you have the permanent wound cavity and the one caused by the shock wave.    it can also (pending round) go through clothes and other barriers effectively, again pending round and what material.


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## jobo (Jul 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> ironically, Canada define brass knuckles as a band of metal so plastic and non metal ones are allowed.  last time i heard of this anyway, laws are always changing and debated on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do you own a pistol ?


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> do you own a pistol ?



Nope, but thats not a pre requisite of knowing its potential for a weapon.  Same with any weapon and anything, experience and second hand sources and observation of it being used are factors which are relevant other than first hand experience in usage of said weapon.  

im sure you can find people who have never fired a pistol teaching pistol combatives.


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## drop bear (Jul 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> Nope, but thats not a pre requisite of knowing its potential for a weapon.  Same with any weapon and anything, experience and second hand sources and observation of it being used are factors which are relevant other than first hand experience in usage of said weapon.
> 
> im sure you can find people who have never fired a pistol teaching pistol combatives.



I am sure there are people who have never been in a fight that teach pistol combatives.

And for the OP. bat. Because I would rather not cut someone up.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 6, 2019)

drop bear said:


> I am sure there are people who have never been in a fight that teach pistol combatives.
> 
> And for the OP. bat. Because I would rather not cut someone up.



There are those people, and they are the best for teaching self defence as they have never needed to use force on anyone, so they either talked out of situations, ran or not got into them in the first place. 

And you would rather break bones and cause internal bleeding than cut someone up?


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## Danny T (Jul 6, 2019)

I carry a hard wood stockman's cane especially when not able to carry concealed. Also carry a 5 inch fixed blade, a flashlight, and a multi tool.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Already have and can I get my penny? You told me to check my laws and everytime someone tells me to do that I charge them a penny. So far I am halfway to buying my own 700 dollar knife.


That rule only works if you inform people of it beforehand, unfortunately


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## drop bear (Jul 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> There are those people, and they are the best for teaching self defence as they have never needed to use force on anyone, so they either talked out of situations, ran or not got into them in the first place.
> 
> And you would rather break bones and cause internal bleeding than cut someone up?



And yeah I learned to drive off a guy who never owned a car. Because he never crashed.

Yes. I really rather would.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So knife ok gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you practiced using all of those? I feel like it would be more useful to train with 2 or 3 weapons, then spend time training with 10+ weapons


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Have you practiced using all of those? I feel like it would be more useful to train with 2 or 3 weapons, then spend time training with 10+ weapons



Mostly stick and knife. I have practiced a little with them to see what works better and such. Like for instance a sap or black jack is pretty much just a short club so I stopped carrying those and just focused on the baton. Things like a monkey fist or similar flail would always bounce back at me and such I prefer the control of a stick. Brass knuckles and similar items suffer from the issue of they dont give me enough benefit to carry them. Like if I learn to punch correctly I can get pretty close to what a brass knuckle can do.

I forgot to add stun gun to that list. I have practiced with a stun gun. Not a taser that shoots out the darts but a contact stun gun. I am not a fan of those cause of the fact that at most they deliver 30,000 volts of electricity and they really do not work all that well.

Honestly the best weapon for self defense you can buy in my opinion is pepper spray. But I am not asking what the best is I am asking what is a better self defense weapon a knife or a baton


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## dvcochran (Jul 6, 2019)

A few posts touched on this. If you are trained in neither the baton nor the knife you are asking an impossible question to answer. I would say you may be putting yourself at added danger. Also, the never ending grey area of what constitutes self defense. You made a long list of items you have carried in the past but can you say you used them in a true SD situation? 
It would be impossible the carry a 2 foot baton as a hidded EDC. In TN at least a good percentage of men still carry a sheathed knife on their belt so the knife would be a more practical EDC. And would get you fewer question and looks.
So I would ask; what is your actual goal? I get a sense you are trying to go around looking threatening, which would go against the edict of true SD.  
I hope I am wrong. Please clarify you intent.


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## isshinryuronin (Jul 6, 2019)

A little knowledge can be dangerous.  If you're not proficient with a knife or baton, an attacker with either can cause serious damage.  Even if you are proficient, there is a good chance you will suffer some degree of damage in an encounter with an armed attacker.  And if the opponent is not armed, you could be in big legal trouble.  I would suggest not carrying any weapon you are not trained in.  Rule of thumb - avoid a weapon encounter whenever possible.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> A few posts touched on this. If you are trained in neither the baton nor the knife you are asking an impossible question to answer. I would say you may be putting yourself at added danger. Also, the never ending grey area of what constitutes self defense. You made a long list of items you have carried in the past but can you say you used them in a true SD situation?
> It would be impossible the carry a 2 foot baton as a hidded EDC. In TN at least a good percentage of men still carry a sheathed knife on their belt so the knife would be a more practical EDC. And would get you fewer question and looks.
> So I would ask; what is your actual goal? I get a sense you are trying to go around looking threatening, which would go against the edict of true SD.
> I hope I am wrong. Please clarify you intent.



I conceal carry everything. I have no intent of doing ill will I am a martial artist so I am trying to get to the "truth" of the matter.
I have training in weapons. I have never used a weapon in self defense mainly because the area of the world I live in really does not need self defense weapons. In the winter i can conceal carry a 2 foot straight baton in my jacket. I have a 3xl jacket when I would fit a 2xl jacket or smaller. the baton goes into a pocket in the bottom of the inside of the jacket. I then rest it against my shoulder with the jacket zipped up. Yes it is a little awkward if I sit down but I mainly conceal it this way if I am going for a walk.



isshinryuronin said:


> A little knowledge can be dangerous.  If you're not proficient with a knife or baton, an attacker with either can cause serious damage.  Even if you are proficient, there is a good chance you will suffer some degree of damage in an encounter with an armed attacker.  And if the opponent is not armed, you could be in big legal trouble.  I would suggest not carrying any weapon you are not trained in.  Rule of thumb - avoid a weapon encounter whenever possible.



I said in my original post that the best self defense is avoiding conflict. I am not asking about what is the best option for self defense. I am asking about 2 specific weapons. I am pretty proficient in the weapons that I carry. A knife and a baton.


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## dvcochran (Jul 6, 2019)

Between the two choices, the knife hands down. It is an energy quotient. Much, much less energy required (given training) to do a lot more damage with the knife. Easier to conceal, and quicker to deploy given your carry example.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So knife ok gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’ve carried all of these things at the same time?

Either way, what is it about your surroundings that makes you feel you need to continuously seek out the “perfect” weapon?  Is your home area really so dangerous?


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> You’ve carried all of these things at the same time?
> 
> Either way, what is it about your surroundings that makes you feel you need to continuously seek out the “perfect” weapon?  Is your home area really so dangerous?



Because I am a martial artist and it is my hobby to eat sleep and breath martial arts and weapons. And South Dakota is pretty safe.

Not all of the weapons at the same time but I would say a mixture of 5 or so at the same time.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Because I am a martial artist and it is my hobby to eat sleep and breath martial arts and weapons. And South Dakota is pretty safe.
> 
> Not all of the weapons at the same time but I would say a mixture of 5 or so at the same time.


That seems like a really big arsenal to lug around with you if you live in a safe place.  

I guess I just don’t get it, the need to be armed in multiple ways  all the time when you live in a safe area.  Seems like an obsessive and perhaps paranoid way to spend your mental energy.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 6, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> That seems like a really big arsenal to lug around with you if you live in a safe place.
> 
> I guess I just don’t get it, the need to be armed in multiple ways  all the time when you live in a safe area.  Seems like an obsessive and perhaps paranoid way to spend your mental energy.



At the moment I only carry around my 7in fixed blade knife. Everything on that list I no longer carry due to there being better items and some of them not working. 

It is what I do for a hobby.

There are people that carry around a guitar everywhere they go even if they have no time to play it.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 6, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> I carry my fixed blade concealed.
> 
> I have also carried concealed
> Brass knuckles
> ...



I think you're auditioning to be a chalk outline.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 7, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I think you're auditioning to be a chalk outline.



They better bring like 5 boxes of chalk I am pretty big.


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## frank raud (Jul 7, 2019)

ironically, Canada define brass knuckles as a band of metal so plastic and non metal ones are allowed. last time i heard of this anyway, laws are always changing and debated on. 

Legal to posses  plastic knuckles.   
*Exception:* The following goods generally do not meet the definition of prohibited weapon, and thus do not fall under tariff item 9898.00.00. Their misuse may nonetheless be punishable under other laws:


(a) plastic knuckles do not fall within the definition of "brass knuckle";
(b) D-guard knives (knives with a hand-guard in the form of a "D").
"Misuse" is an interesting term, as if you were to use plastic knuckles in altercation, you would be charged with using a weapon.


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## Anarax (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> I carry my fixed blade concealed.


You carry a 7 inch fixed blade concealed? Not saying it's impossible, but what's your draw time on that? I always want a balance between utility and ease of access when it comes to SD weapons.


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## jobo (Jul 7, 2019)

Rat said:


> There are those people, and they are the best for teaching self defence as they have never needed to use force on anyone, so they either talked out of situations, ran or not got into them in the first place.
> 
> And you would rather break bones and cause internal bleeding than cut someone up?


on that criteria my 88 yo mother could teach self defence, she spent most of my early life saying" try not to get into so many fights our Joe"


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## Danny T (Jul 7, 2019)

Self defense tools should be well trained however, when in actual carry it's more like having a spare tire. 
'You hope you'll never need to use it, but if you do it's there.'
Most all of us have a good spare tire; how much effort do you spend showing off or comparing your spare tire to others?


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Self defense tools should be well trained however, when in actual carry it's more like having a spare tire.
> 'You hope you'll never need to use it, but if you do it's there.'
> Most all of us have a good spare tire; how much effort do you spend showing off or comparing your spare tire to others?


The spare tire is a great analogy Danny.


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Mostly stick and knife. I have practiced a little with them to see what works better and such. Like for instance a sap or black jack is pretty much just a short club so I stopped carrying those and just focused on the baton. Things like a monkey fist or similar flail would always bounce back at me and such I prefer the control of a stick. Brass knuckles and similar items suffer from the issue of they dont give me enough benefit to carry them. Like if I learn to punch correctly I can get pretty close to what a brass knuckle can do.
> 
> I forgot to add stun gun to that list. I have practiced with a stun gun. Not a taser that shoots out the darts but a contact stun gun. I am not a fan of those cause of the fact that at most they deliver 30,000 volts of electricity and they really do not work all that well.
> 
> Honestly the best weapon for self defense you can buy in my opinion is pepper spray. But I am not asking what the best is I am asking what is a better self defense weapon a knife or a baton



There is no way a bare knuckle punch can do near the damage of a punch of equal skill and power using brass knuckles. Early in my LEO career slap jacks were many officers go to, putting it in the palm of their hand and slapping the **** out of someone. Hence the name. You better believe they work. I don't get you short club analogy.

There are cheap stun guns online that are not have nearly effective as what LEO carry. Comparing a stun gun to a true taser is not apples to apples. Either one is going to get someone's attention but the stun gun may just piss them off. 

To your original question, what is your line of work that you need so much firepower? Of the two weapons in question, definitely the knife.


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## pdg (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> the area of the world I live in really does not need self defense weapons------In the winter i can conceal carry a 2 foot straight baton in my jacket------ I mainly conceal it this way if I am going for a walk.



If the area is safe, why are you tooling up?

It being 'a hobby' is a really poor reason by the way, it's honestly coming across as extreme paranoia.



Danny T said:


> Self defense tools should be well trained however, when in actual carry it's more like having a spare tire.
> 'You hope you'll never need to use it, but if you do it's there.'
> Most all of us have a good spare tire; how much effort do you spend showing off or comparing your spare tire to others?



I like one part of this analogy - I've met loads of people who were utterly incapable of swapping out their spare if they got a flat 

Also, I've put more effort into comparing the options I have for a spare tyre than I ever have thinking about carrying a weapon...

While "it's better to look at it than look for it" is a valid idea, there's also a likelihood of need continuum.

I carry a spare tyre in my car because there's a fair chance I'll need it one day - I've had to use the facility maybe 10 times since I started driving. On a pushbike I carry puncture repair stuff, again because there's a fair chance I'll need it (much more often than the car spare).

Compare that to what weapons I've carried for SD purposes - none.

How many times in the last 43 years I've needed a weapon for SD purposes - none.

I have enough to carry already (key and wallet, sometimes) without adding hardware I'll likely never need...

The OP seems more like he'd tow a spare car, and a complete set of parts too - even though his car is reliable and he has good breakdown cover (safe area )


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 7, 2019)

jobo said:


> on that criteria my 88 yo mother could teach self defence, she spent most of my early life saying" try not to get into so many fights our Joe"



she could very well teach, not my place to say if she can or cant, it would probably be a more honest senior self defence class than some out there.  

Anyway thats degrading from the subject matter so im stopping the discussion line before it degrades too far.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> At the moment I only carry around my 7in fixed blade knife. Everything on that list I no longer carry due to there being better items and some of them not working.
> 
> It is what I do for a hobby.
> 
> There are people that carry around a guitar everywhere they go even if they have no time to play it.


Would your name be Mick Dundee?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> There are people that carry around a guitar everywhere they go even if they have no time to play it.


The only people i ever see carry guitars are teenagers/college students, homeless (or fake homeless) people, or people going to/from studios. All of them have a reason for it. Id find it stupid to carry a guitar if you dont plan to use it, only reason for it would be for ego.

Similarly, i cant think of any other reason for carrying 5+ weapons at a time, except going to train somewhere where you need that. If anything, you're putting yourself in more danger as anyone your fighting now has more opportunities to arm themselves.


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## JP3 (Jul 7, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That depends what you want it to do. For ending a fight decisively, I'd probably give the edge (no pun intended) to the bladed weapon. For gaining options to control/defend with less chance of doing serious harm, the baton is better.
> 
> For me, I'd personally prefer the baton. I'm more skilled with it, and likely at less risk if it ends up in the other guy's hands.


Same here, though I've always figured that the one time I was ever in a pinch and really needed to use a weapon to aid me in an SD situation, I'd have course set it down at the other end of the couch... or put it in my proverbial backpack because it was in my way or something. Murphy's Law.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 7, 2019)

Anarax said:


> You carry a 7 inch fixed blade concealed? Not saying it's impossible, but what's your draw time on that? I always want a balance between utility and ease of access when it comes to SD weapons.



Pretty good will post some pics of how I conceal carry it.



dvcochran said:


> There is no way a bare knuckle punch can do near the damage of a punch of equal skill and power using brass knuckles. Early in my LEO career slap jacks were many officers go to, putting it in the palm of their hand and slapping the **** out of someone. Hence the name. You better believe they work. I don't get you short club analogy.
> 
> There are cheap stun guns online that are not have nearly effective as what LEO carry. Comparing a stun gun to a true taser is not apples to apples. Either one is going to get someone's attention but the stun gun may just piss them off.
> 
> To your original question, what is your line of work that you need so much firepower? Of the two weapons in question, definitely the knife.



How have you seen brass knuckles work? From what I have seen you do short little jabs with them not full on punches. Not saying they dont work but if lets say I punch correctly with good body mechanics and my punch is an 8 out of 10 but with brass knuckles I can punch a 10 out of 10. There is not enough of a difference for me to carry them.

A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?

I agree on the stun gun thing. I believe I said stun gun and not taser. I have yet to use a taser in practice due to the price.



pdg said:


> If the area is safe, why are you tooling up?
> 
> It being 'a hobby' is a really poor reason by the way, it's honestly coming across as extreme paranoia.
> 
> ...



You can believe whatever you want to believe of me.

If you stopped me on the street right now you would find I have a phone and a knife. My phone is my keys my wallet and my phone. I rarely carry a physical wallet and keys anymore since my phone does it all. I dont drive so I do not need a drivers license or ID where I live.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 7, 2019)

How I hide my baton.





coat1.JPG

coat2.JPG

How I hide my knife. And Ok I lied it is a glock knife with a 6.5in blade.

shirt1.JPG

shirt2.JPG

shirt3.JPG


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## jobo (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> How I hide my baton.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have a special line in over sized shirts and really awful oversized jackets ,just to hide your weapons ,that is realky dedicated, but it's the fashion police you need to worry about, and the very least you look like a shop lifter


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## jaime_lion (Jul 7, 2019)

jobo said:


> You have a special line in over sized shirts and really awful oversized jackets ,just to hide your weapons ,that is realky dedicated, but it's the fashion police you need to worry about, and the very least you look like a shop lifter



Actually the jacket is from 2013 when I was heavier. Also similar stuff with the shirts. I bought 7 of the same shirts so I essentially wear the same shirt everyday.

People care about how they look?


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 7, 2019)

You're all being trolled really hard here.


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## jobo (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Actually the jacket is from 2013 when I was heavier. Also similar stuff with the shirts. I bought 7 of the same shirts so I essentially wear the same shirt everyday.
> 
> People care about how they look?


You'd need to be a foot taller for that jacket to fit


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## Buka (Jul 7, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You're all being trolled really hard here.



And I forget that every time. 

Quick, Bill, sell me a bridge, I have cash money!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 7, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You're all being trolled really hard here.


Yeah, but im also bored so it works.


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> How I hide my baton.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are just asking to stab yourself in the leg.


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## Buka (Jul 7, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> Actually the jacket is from 2013 when I was heavier. Also similar stuff with the shirts. I bought 7 of the same shirts so I essentially wear the same shirt everyday.
> 
> People care about how they look?



You might want to care how you look. If you were around my job site we would be on you like white on rice. You know why? Because it looks like your carrying things you're trying to hide. 

Key word in that sentence is "trying".


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## jaime_lion (Jul 7, 2019)

Buka said:


> You might want to care how you look. If you were around my job site we would be on you like white on rice. You know why? Because it looks like your carrying things you're trying to hide.
> 
> Key word in that sentence is "trying".




Well it is a good thing I dont live in maui. What are the knife laws down there?


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## Danny T (Jul 7, 2019)

pdg said:


> If the area is safe, why are you tooling up?
> 
> It being 'a hobby' is a really poor reason by the way, it's honestly coming across as extreme paranoia.
> 
> ...


I also have fire extinguishers in my vehicles, in my home, and in my business. In my 64 years of life I have never had to use one to put out a fire other than in training. I have used a firearm and though I did not use one for self defense I have restrained and removed a knife from someone during a church service once. I don't train and carry hoping to use them. I train and carry because there are others who have bad intentions out there.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 7, 2019)

JP3 said:


> Same here, though I've always figured that the one time I was ever in a pinch and really needed to use a weapon to aid me in an SD situation, I'd have course set it down at the other end of the couch... or put it in my proverbial backpack because it was in my way or something. Murphy's Law.


Yeah, as many places as I go where I can't have most weapons (courthouse, airplanes, etc.), I figure if I ever get attacked, it'll be one of those places. Or on the crapper.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 8, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, as many places as I go where I can't have most weapons (courthouse, airplanes, etc.), I figure if I ever get attacked, it'll be one of those places. Or on the crapper.




The toilet is supper easy. Just grab the stuff going in there. I mean who would want to fight a person with poopy on their hands?


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## drop bear (Jul 8, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Self defense tools should be well trained however, when in actual carry it's more like having a spare tire.
> 'You hope you'll never need to use it, but if you do it's there.'
> Most all of us have a good spare tire; how much effort do you spend showing off or comparing your spare tire to others?



And have fifty spare tires in the basement to fight a corrupt government.


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## drop bear (Jul 8, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> How I hide my baton.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You couldn't just throw a chair at a guy or something. Save a bit of hassle?


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## pdg (Jul 8, 2019)

Danny T said:


> I also have fire extinguishers in my vehicles, in my home, and in my business. In my 64 years of life I have never had to use one to put out a fire other than in training. I have used a firearm and though I did not use one for self defense I have restrained and removed a knife from someone during a church service once. I don't train and carry hoping to use them. I train and carry because there are others who have bad intentions out there.



That goes back to the balance of probability thing though.

I have had to use a fire extinguisher a few times, as well as other 'emergency' training - but it's been to assist others rather than myself.

The people with bad intentions, they'll have whatever you might have, plus one level (usually, from a made up statistic).

I.e. if 'normal' people are allowed to carry guns and knives, the bad guys will surely have them too.

Around here, 'normal' people don't carry weapons...

There was a report on the radio the other day of a "dangerous weapon incident" handled by the police not far from me - nobody was hurt but there was an altercation and one party had a stick.

So, those are the bad guys I'm most likely going to ever have to deal with.


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## pdg (Jul 8, 2019)

pdg said:


> There was a report on the radio the other day of a "dangerous weapon incident" handled by the police not far from me - nobody was hurt but there was an altercation and one party had a stick



Obviously the report I heard got updated - turns out the stick was made of metal...

Man 'armed' with metal pole arrested in Salisbury

So yeah, a bit of a scuffle where nobody was hurt was deemed bad and unusual enough to make the local news headlines...


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## frank raud (Jul 8, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> How have you seen brass knuckles work? From what I have seen you do short little jabs with them not full on punches. Not saying they dont work but if lets say I punch correctly with good body mechanics and my punch is an 8 out of 10 but with brass knuckles I can punch a 10 out of 10. There is not enough of a difference for me to carry them.
> 
> 
> That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.
> ...


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## jaime_lion (Jul 8, 2019)

*That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.

A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?

Having been hit (lightly) with both blackjack/sap and baton/club, if I had a choice I'd take being hit by a baton*

I believe you made a mistake in how you posted your reply so I moved your response out of the quote box. I have bolded your response.

Also I am pretty sure you are wrong with how you hit with brass knuckles. If you punch normally you are in danger of breaking your fingers. I have hit myself with both and the baton worked way better. Not quite sure how you were hit.


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## frank raud (Jul 8, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> *That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.
> 
> A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?
> 
> ...


 Interesting. I say that jabbing with brass knuckles is not the most efficient way to use them. Your response is I'm wrong, that if you punch normally ( like a jab?), you can hurt yourself. I was taught how to use them by David Grant, author of two books on brass knuckles. I also did not say how to use them. But you assume I'm wrong.

How did I get hit with a sap and a baton? From someone else using it in training, not by hitting myself.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 8, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Interesting. I say that jabbing with brass knuckles is not the most efficient way to use them. Your response is I'm wrong, that if you punch normally ( like a jab?), you can hurt yourself. I was taught how to use them by David Grant, author of two books on brass knuckles. I also did not say how to use them. But you assume I'm wrong.
> 
> How did I get hit with a sap and a baton? From someone else using it in training, not by hitting myself.



How were you taught to use them?

Here is a video on how I was showen how to use them. I have seen numerous people say this is the correct way.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 8, 2019)

Jeezuz.  You need a video to teach you how to use brass knuckles?


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## isshinryuronin (Jul 9, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?


Getting back to the basic question - knife or stick.  A 7 inch fixed blade is a formidable weapon and one I personally would run away from if possible.  But look at the total picture considering various factors:

long range - 24+inch stick superior
med range - stick slightly superior
short range - knife superior
ease of carry concealed - knife superior
legality of concealed carry - stick superior in most states
risk in losing weapon to unskilled opponent - stick superior (less risk having it kill you)
*flexibility in lethality of use* - stick superior (difficult to gently stab someone or just restrain with knife)
if unarmed - stick superior (better chance of finding stick or stick-like object on the ground than a knife)
skill adaptable to other objects - stick superior (pipes, chains, crowbars, branches, etc.)
intimidation factor - knife superior (especially the 7 inch variety)
I think #7 is perhaps the most important, overall from a self-defense aspect - the stick can be applied to a wider range of situations than a knife, offering more options on the force spectrum.  By its very lethal nature, a knife's responsible use is limited to only the most extreme situations.  Of course the user's training, willingness to inflict deadly force, and situation all come into play.  But *considering all the above*, I vote for being trained in, and having, a kali/escrima stick (but a small knife hidden away would be nice, too)


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## jaime_lion (Jul 9, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> Getting back to the basic question - knife or stick.  A 7 inch fixed blade is a formidable weapon and one I personally would run away from if possible.  But look at the total picture considering various factors:
> 
> long range - 24+inch stick superior
> med range - stick slightly superior
> ...




How heavy of a kail escrima stick? As I am sure you have seen the dog brothers fight with them and most of them come out ok. Escrima sticks made of rattan are too lite to actually be good for a weapon.

I am assuming you have tested knife vs stick in the actual ways they would be used and not in a dueling fashion? When I have done this knife won out against stick most times.

This idea of a non-lethal self defense is noble. But I dont get it. If a person is trying to rape another person or harm them that is where lethal force comes into play and less lethal goes out. The only possible less lethal I could see is pepper spray or possibly a taser. But since my question is about a knife or stick we can discuss those later.


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## JR 137 (Jul 9, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> How heavy of a kail escrima stick? As I am sure you have seen the dog brothers fight with them and most of them come out ok. Escrima sticks made of rattan are too lite to actually be good for a weapon.
> 
> I am assuming you have tested knife vs stick in the actual ways they would be used and not in a dueling fashion? When I have done this knife won out against stick most times.
> 
> This idea of a non-lethal self defense is noble. But I dont get it. If a person is trying to rape another person or harm them that is where lethal force comes into play and less lethal goes out. The only possible less lethal I could see is pepper spray or possibly a taser. But since my question is about a knife or stick we can discuss those later.


Not every SD situation is life or death; you don’t have to kill everyone that attacks you. I’ve been in plenty of fights (not all “meet me outside” fights) that I couldn’t get out of without fighting. None of them were life and death.

Edit: one potentially was, as he was drawing his gun. A knife wouldn’t have done anything but slow me down and give him enough time to do what he was trying to do. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t kill him.


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## Buka (Jul 9, 2019)

I'm with JR. ^^^

Life or death fights usually involve warfare or serious crime. I suppose it could be said that you have to be prepared for everything, but only a very small percentage of fights fit this category.

Far more worrisome to me is striking or throwing someone out of necessity and them hitting their head when they go down. That frightens the hell out of me, Jackface Turkeys that decide they want to scrap do not.


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## jaime_lion (Jul 9, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> Not every SD situation is life or death; you don’t have to kill everyone that attacks you. I’ve been in plenty of fights (not all “meet me outside” fights) that I couldn’t get out of without fighting. None of them were life and death.
> 
> Edit: one potentially was, as he was drawing his gun. A knife wouldn’t have done anything but slow me down and give him enough time to do what he was trying to do. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t kill him.




So your telling me if a person starts attacking you because they think by attacking you it will solve there problems and such. You would rather use a stick? I guess can you explain how you think this would go down? 

If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.


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## JR 137 (Jul 9, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> So your telling me if a person starts attacking you because they think by attacking you it will solve there problems and such. You would rather use a stick? I guess can you explain how you think this would go down?
> 
> If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.


I didn’t say I preferred anything. I was addressing the last paragraph I quoted; to me it sounded like you were saying every SD situation is life and death.

Would I prefer to use a stick over a knife or vice-versa? Too many what ifs. Furthermore I carry neither, so there’s not much left for me to discuss. I don’t carry anything with the conscious inclination to use it as a weapon. I don’t feel the need.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 9, 2019)

jaime_lion said:


> If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.


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## geezer (Jul 9, 2019)

I've said this before on other threads. A knife is a better _offensive_ weapon than _defensive_. And if you ever have to explain using it to the authorities, or a jury, most likely that's what they'd think. Honestly, where I live, you'd be better off just carrying a gun. Open or concealed, no license required. As for me, I'll take a stick ...a couple of feet of good hard hickory. Or at my age, maybe a cane, ...or nothing at all.


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## Buka (Jul 10, 2019)

isshinryuronin said:


> Getting back to the basic question - knife or stick.  A 7 inch fixed blade is a formidable weapon and one I personally would run away from if possible.  But look at the total picture considering various factors:
> 
> long range - 24+inch stick superior
> med range - stick slightly superior
> ...



That’s a pretty good breakdown. Never thought of it that way before.


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## Invisibleflash (Jul 30, 2019)

OP, don't know which is better. But I'd rather give someone a whack that slice them open. If they got you in a choke from behind on the ground, a knife is good to cut up their arms and stab their leg. But in NYC you can't have either weapon. There are some knife options, but choices are slim. No tactical folders and knives have to be concealed. Open carry or any part of a knife that is visible gets you arrested. NYC is very tough on knives. Can't even have a kubaton in NYC.


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