# Does Wado Ryu have a lot of Ju Jitsu in it?



## Mtal (Dec 5, 2007)

I was reading about Wado Ryu, and I think is said it's founder started off his Martial Arts career in Ju Jitsu. Then he started training in Shoto Kan, just cause he wanted to add more powerful striking. 

So what is a typical Wado Ryu class like? I have done Shoto Kan for a year, and Ju Jitsu for a couple of months. They both had different feels to them. How does Wado Ryu compare to them?


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## arnisador (Dec 5, 2007)

Wado definitely has a strong jujutsu basis and any jujutsu techniques, but as per its name its look and feel is more like Karate than jujutsu. It's perhaps best described as Karate from a jujutsu philosophy, as I understand it (I haven't studied it).


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## Tez3 (Dec 6, 2007)

It is very much karate, however the kata's Bunkai does contain a lot of Juijitsu. The differences you would notice between Shotokan and Wado Ryu is that Wado has less deep and shorter stances, there are also a lot more stances. The knife hands are done angled differently, in an L shape and the hand comes straight down before coming across from the ear to strike. I believe there are a lot more techniques generally and in the katas than Shotokan but the classes you would find to be the same. I've been told that Shotokan suit big people whereas Wado suits smaller people. I have to say Wado was my first style and I love it to bits lol!


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## exile (Dec 6, 2007)

Good points on this in the above posts!.

One thing to bear in mind is that there is a story on the history of karate which goes like this: the Satsuma clan who were in a sense `given' Okinawa by the Minamoto to keep them busy and arm's length from the `mainland' island were exponents of a Japanese style of budojutsu which emphasized use of the same techniques regardless of the weapon&#8212;including empty hands as well&#8212;that some people at least have identified with Daito-ryu aikijutsu (though the specific history is murky; as has been pointed out by others in threads devoted to the topic, the time depth for D-r A may not be more than a couple of centuries, though the art's antecedents themselved may go back several hundred years more). The technique in D-r A, and probably the specific bujutsu that the Satsuma brought to Okinawa, were probably much closer to what modern jiujutsu is like than to what Shotokan is like. And the Satsuma intermarried with the Okinawan aristocrat familiers, so that there's some reason to believe that their particular bujutsu techniques entered into to mix of martial knowledge that was available on Okinawa a few hundred years ago.

What this means in terms of the OP query is that the linear karate which developed on Okinawa in the 19th c. very likely represents a synthesis of not just Chinese styles (Fukien `White Crane' is often mentioned in this connection) and indigenous `te' methods, but Japanese aikijutsu techniques, giving Okinawan karate a somewhat different appearance than the much more emphatically exclusively striking quality people often comment on in comparing it to other styles, especially Shotokan variants. If this is the case, then Wado-Ryu represents to some degree an effort to construct a somewhat more stylistically traditional version of karate than what Shotokan had become by that time. It might not be too much of an exaggeration to say that a jiujutsu-like component was part of `original' Karate, and that Shotokan is the `odd man out' (leaving kyokushin out of the discussion!) amongst modern styles because it minimizes that component to an extreme degree...


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## Grenadier (Dec 6, 2007)

Good question...  

The original Wado Ryu system, penned by Ohtsuka Shihan, was still a Karate system based on Shotokan Karate, that had a lot of influence from his previous Ju Jutsu training.  On the surface, both the Wado and Shotokan systems look fairly similar, with Wado Ryu being the "softer" of the two styles.  

In today's day and age, I've seen many Shotokan schools that put a strong emphasis on the softer techniques, while also seeing many Wado Ryu schools put a strong emphasis on harder techniques.  If anything, there's quite a bit of overlap between the two.


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## exile (Dec 6, 2007)

Grenadier said:


> Good question...
> 
> The original Wado Ryu system, penned by Ohtsuka Shihan, was still a Karate system based on Shotokan Karate, that had a lot of influence from his previous Ju Jutsu training.  On the surface, both the Wado and Shotokan systems look fairly similar, with Wado Ryu being the "softer" of the two styles.
> 
> In today's day and age, I've seen many Shotokan schools that put a strong emphasis on the softer techniques, while also seeing many Wado Ryu schools put a strong emphasis on harder techniques.  If anything, there's quite a bit of overlap between the two.



That's interesting, Gren.... I suspect, from what various people like Rob Redmond and other Shotokan kibbitzers say, that Gichin Funakoshi himself was less responsible for the very hard strictly linear profile that Shotokan acquired over the decades than his son was. There are photos of Funakoshi Senior doing moves that look very jiujitsu-ish that I've run across in histories of karate (Mark Bishop has some in his book on Okinawan styles, as I recall). The `classic' Shotokan we think of is, in Redmond's view, quite different from what GF himself practiced and taught (see e.g. this...)


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## dancingalone (Dec 6, 2007)

To answer the original question, a typical Wado class looks like any other Japanese karate class.  A warmup followed by kihon drills, kata, and prearranged sparring sets.  There is more attention given to throws and takedowns that in the average Shotokan school, but it's hard to give it the attention it deserves in a karate school.  Many Wado people I know also crosstrain in a jujutsu dojo for that exact reason.


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## wadokai_indonesia (Apr 15, 2008)

Mtal said:


> I was reading about Wado Ryu, and I think is said it's founder started off his Martial Arts career in Ju Jitsu. Then he started training in Shoto Kan, just cause he wanted to add more powerful striking.
> 
> So what is a typical Wado Ryu class like? I have done Shoto Kan for a year, and Ju Jitsu for a couple of months. They both had different feels to them. How does Wado Ryu compare to them?



I've been training in this style for quite a while, and train in Jujutsu as well (Hakko-ryu, KJJR and many others), so I can offer a bit of my experience in this one.

Wado-ryu, in the *higher* levels, includes a set of techniques called _"Wado-ryu Jujutsu Kenpo"_, which is really a collection of Jujutsu techniques taken (mostly) from Shindo Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu. The collection of Jujutsu techniques is arranged into several 2-person Katas, each Kata has from 5 to 10 Jujutsu techniques in it. Most Wadoka will begin learning the set by doing the _Idori no Kata_, which is taken from the kneeling defenses of Shindo Yoshin-ryu. Then the  next set are usually the _Joshi Goshinjutsu_, a set of standing throws, locks and strikes intended for women self-defense. After that, usually the _Nage-Gyakunage_ follows, this is a handful of throwing techniques. After that, the _Tantodori_, which are several techniques for defending against knife attacks. After learning the Kata, then we are entering the realm of _Ohyo_ (application), where each technique can be applied to many situations, thus making the possibilities nearly..endless.


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## wadokai_indonesia (May 14, 2008)

Some of the Jujutsu waza of Wado can be seen here

http://art-of-budo.com/kumite-tantodori.htm

http://art-of-budo.com/kumite-idori.htm

http://art-of-budo.com/kumite-urawaza.htm

http://art-of-budo.com/kumite-kihongumite.htm

This is just a small portion of what is actually taught at many Wado-ryu dojos. My dojo, for example, teaches a lot more.


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## Cirdan (Jun 2, 2008)

Wado is a very diverse art so it is hard to generalize how a class will be. You probably won`t see any breaking and most drills are designed not to wear out joints or other parts of the body trough years of training. Wadokas are obsessed with technique and in some cases anatomy (I`ve noticed there are a lot of doctors, nurses and people from similar professions in the style) This does not mean clases are not hard. Having the will to push yourself past your limits is in fact often seen as central to the style.


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## wadokai_indonesia (Jun 3, 2008)

Cirdan said:


> Wado is a very diverse art so it is hard to generalize how a class will be. Wadokas are obsessed with technique and in some cases anatomy


 
yes, this is a true observation. How hard to hit is important, but how to hit and where to hit is more important.


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## Kravguy (Feb 2, 2010)

I have been training in Wado since the Summer of this year and have noticed that while the class likes to state the Ju Jitsu mix, there really isn't much that I have seen so far..although they say it really begins in higher belts..but I'm just Orange right now..so hard to truly comment.

Although I too am considering cross training in some Ju Jitsu because I was hoping we would see more.


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## Blade96 (Feb 2, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> I've been told that *Shotokan suit big people whereas Wado suits smaller people.* I have to say Wado was my first style and I love it to bits lol!


 
nobody bothered to tell me i was doing the wrong art then lol =]

i'm 5'2 and 135



doesnt matter anyways

I'd only quit my art when someone will have to pry my association membership card from my cold dead fingers.


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## Tez3 (Feb 2, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> nobody bothered to tell me i was doing the wrong art then lol =]
> 
> i'm 5'2 and 135
> 
> ...


 

Loving your art is everything.... ie 'it's me or your martial arts' 'bye we'll miss you' lol!

Wado is just a bit easier for those of us that have shorter legs as the front stance etc isn't as deep as some other styles.


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## repz (Feb 2, 2010)

exile said:


> That's interesting, Gren.... I suspect, from what various people like Rob Redmond and other Shotokan kibbitzers say, that Gichin Funakoshi himself was less responsible for the very hard strictly linear profile that Shotokan acquired over the decades than his son was. There are photos of Funakoshi Senior doing moves that look very jiujitsu-ish that I've run across in histories of karate (Mark Bishop has some in his book on Okinawan styles, as I recall). The `classic' Shotokan we think of is, in Redmond's view, quite different from what GF himself practiced and taught (see e.g. this...)


 
Interesting article you put there.

Alot of claims, such as Okinawan Karate being a sport before it came to Japan, and the legends of karate as once being secret being false.

Also, of Gichin Funakoshi being a social chameloen, doing whatever Japan wanted him to do just to stay with the "in" crowd.


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## Blade96 (Feb 2, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Loving your art is everything.... ie 'it's me or your martial arts' 'bye we'll miss you' lol!


 
Haha, family says that whenever i say I'd like a bf...'well what if he complains you spend too much time at the dojo rather than with him?' Then I'm like, "buh-bye!" Shotokan or a bf....shotokan always wins lol



			
				tez said:
			
		

> Wado is just a bit easier for those of us that have shorter legs as the front stance etc isn't as deep as some other styles.


 
true enough, when we do kihon and go up and down doing blocks and punches sometimes everyone gets ahead of me because i'm small. and my legs are shorter. That used to happen a lot last year, when i really was a rookie white belt, not so much anymore though, as an advanced white who's almost yellow now i keep up with others.


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