# Are there any legal holds in olympic freestyle wrestling?



## mad_boxer

I know Americans do wrestling in high school and it is not quite the same as freestyle it is folkstyle but anyway i read some eddie bravo thing where he said he was bad at takedowns and he would just wait for someone to shoot,then hed sprawl get the back and do what wrestlers call a guillotine (now hes made it "the twister") wht confused me is i didn't think submissions were allowed in wrestling but then again if someone taps what can the ref say no you're not allowed to give up lol. anyway can someone please explain if subs r allowed in freestyle wrestling and if so what types are permittable and under what circumstances? thanks


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## mad_boxer

C'mon people this may be a very stupid question I don't know. But i would really like the answer can somebody please take the time to fill me in?


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## Andrew Green

are you sure he was talking about folkstyle wresting?  Chokes aren't allowed, I know some will use a tight front headlock to sneak one in, get the guy a little sleepy and then pin him, but pulling guard to a choke in folkstyle is not only illegal, but you are pinned as you are on your back.

My guess is he was talking about submission grappling, which is what he does now, and where he made the twister his move.


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## mad_boxer

I know the guillotine is a choke in sub grappling but i thot he was referring to a neck crank when he said this. What about full nelsons and half nelsons stuff like that are they legal? and can u tap to them?


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## Andrew Green

You aren't allowed any submission holds, and there is no tapping out.  You got to throw people and put them on there back to get points, can't make them tap.


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## mad_boxer

im confused isnt a full nelson a wrestling move? they hurt too id b upset if i was stuck in one and wasnt allowed to tap


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## DuckofDeath

The folk style guillotine you're referring to is a pinning hold, not a submission hold--although it can be quite uncomfortable in its application. It is usually applied to an opponent on his hands and knees--a common position in wrestling, since the wrestler doesn't have to worry about someone taking his back and choking him. Because BJJers don't give up their backs the way wrestlers do, Bravo had to figure out a different approach to applying the guillotine, and the twister was born.


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## mad_boxer

Thanks that clears it up for me. Still though I know the aim is not to get a submission and submission holds are illegal if u were in a legal hold which for whatever reason is painful you could give up couldnt you? coz it would be unfair on the person who had u in the position that was hurtin u to hav to giv it up if it was advantageous and it would be unfair to the person in pain to not be able to give up. I realize that tap out is not how you are meant to win but assuming someone was in a legal hold which was hurting and they tapped or said they gave up how would it be handled?


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## DuckofDeath

mad_boxer said:
			
		

> I realize that tap out is not how you are meant to win but assuming someone was in a legal hold which was hurting and they tapped or said they gave up how would it be handled?


 
I think the key word here is _legal_, i.e., actually legal and not a hold that might look legal but that has actually been tweaked into a crank or choke or something illegal. Wrestlers are highly conditioned, and truly legal holds shouldn't cause them such discomfort as to make them want to concede. However, I guess it is possible that someone might have an old injury flare up or have an asthma attack or something and be so stricken as to want to concede. I imagine that if someone gasped, "Stop the match, Ref, I give up!" the ref would probably stop the match and award the opponent the victory. 

You might want to do a search on official rules of folkstyle and/or freestyle wrestling; in all the reams of material, I'll bet there's something that addresses your question.


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## Shogun

Eddie Bravo did what is typically called scholastic wrestling for about 2 years in high school. His twister is a modified guillotine. it does not choke however. the idea is to vine one of the legs, roll, and trap the arm and neck. this would pin the person to the mat, so they can't roll into you without pain, and can;t roll away because you have the arm. Wrestling can be very brutal, a non-wrestler might get caught in a basic position and tap due to pain but higher level wreslters get used to this abuse.


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## redfang

Full nelsons are illegal in folkstyle wrestling and half nelsons aren't submission holds, they're pinning moves


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## green meanie

mad_boxer said:
			
		

> I realize that tap out is not how you are meant to win but assuming someone was in a legal hold which was hurting and they tapped or said they gave up how would it be handled?


 
In high school wrestling here in PA, a wrestler who taps, screams, or behaves in a way that forces a referee to stop the match and subsequently prevents the other wrestler from getting a possible pin is awarded 4 points: the normal 3 back points and 1 bonus point.


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