# Krav Maga



## Hu Ren Qianzai Long (Jul 17, 2002)

Does anyone have any info on Krav Maga? Thanks! :asian:


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## arnisador (Jul 17, 2002)

Look in the General forum--there have been discussions of it there.


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## KennethKu (Aug 17, 2002)

http://www.kravmaga.com/Home/home.html


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## ace (Sep 29, 2002)

Does any one in M.M.A.
do Krav Maga

I herd Oleg& Bas got paid big money to take
some pictures for a Krav Maga article

But if there is any proving ground
For a Martial Art it is M.M.A.
:boxing: 
:asian: 
Primo


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## GouRonin (Oct 2, 2002)

I think MMA has a certain style of it's own. My BJJ instructor says that sure this stuff works in the ring, but no one there has his buddies about to jump in, knives, packing, other objects. It, like anything else has it's time and place.

I agree that MMA has a place in proving things to an extent.

My experience with Krav Maga has been they grab and pound. The knife work, while I am not an expert, seems to leave some lines open. However, the grab and knee for example does have a lot of merit.

I do know Oleg has done work work in Systema with Vlad.


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## thatoneguy (Oct 4, 2002)

i think Krav Maga is one of those styles that is more of a quick lesson in self deffense
it is not the best style or anything but it isnt bad
but it is used by thegovernment of isreal so ill guess its fairly effective in a fight


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## GouRonin (Oct 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thatoneguy _
> *i think Krav Maga is one of those styles that is more of a quick lesson in self deffense*



Good point. I think many people dismiss it because they work on the perception that your opponent will be untrained. But many martial arts systems do that.

Many however, don't.


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## cdhall (Oct 8, 2002)

I was about to start a thread like this but found this thread on a search.

I saw something on Krav Maga this weekend on Discovery Health.
I just spoke to an instructor tonight while I was on a sales call.

It seems that it is a solid business/franchise model with protected territories and they only do Self Defense, no forms, some weapons.  I don't think they "spar" so much as they fight and work on pads and padded opponents.

I saw one of their choke defenses on TV last night and I don't think it would work as well as they are claiming, I will try it tomorrow in class if I get a chance.  Otherwise, they seem to like a lot of stuff that we teach in Kenpo so I was curious about it.

But then "grab and elbow/knee"  sounds like Muy Thai without the conditioning of kicking trees and stuff.  

Anyway, I wondered if anyone on MartialTalk studied it or is discussing it.  Thanks.
:asian:


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## jkn75 (Oct 8, 2002)

From what I have seen of krav maga, it's a brutal responses to any situation. There is no degree of restraint, just unleashing a brutal pounding on whoever touches you. However, it is becoming extremely popular. :asian:


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## ace (Oct 8, 2002)

From what ive seen 
im not to impressed 


Wo Wo Wo 
Before U go Balistic on me!
I think it is a good Art.

But one that lacks what it is
Trying to prove.

I've seen this suff.

It does remined me of JKD,FMA & Yes Kenpo.
I have yet to see the 
Huge differece in what they do??


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## cdhall (Oct 8, 2002)

I agree with you guys.
It does seem to favor a "total annihilation" response.
The instructor I spoke to said something about this, particularly in relation to gun and knife attacks.  He said they intended to hurt you before they take the weapon away.

It might be good and useful for Self-Defense, but they do not seem to have the options that we study in Kenpo via the Equation Formula and so on.

I noticed similarities when they discussed working off of natural responses to an attack.  Mr. Parker addressed this topic in Infinite Insights vol 1 I believe.

This is from their website and it sounds like stuff you could hear at a Kenpo seminar:
"Krav Maga is a simple, effective self defense system that emphasizes instinctive movements, practical techniques, and realistic training scenarios. "

:asian:


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## GouRonin (Oct 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> [BI have yet to see the
> Huge difference in what they do?? [/B]



There isn't a lot of new ways to kick and punch are there?


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## arnisador (Oct 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> 
> *But then "grab and elbow/knee"  sounds like Muy Thai *



Or JKD. Do a search on Krav and you'll find a lot of hits here.


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## KennethKu (Oct 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jkn75 _
> *From what I have seen of krav maga, it's a brutal responses to any situation. There is no degree of restraint, just unleashing a brutal pounding on whoever touches you. However, it is becoming extremely popular. :asian: *



Considering the fact that it is practiced in Israel and facing terrorist attackers, there is no room for quarter.


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## jkn75 (Oct 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> 
> *Considering the fact that it is practiced in Israel and facing terrorist attackers, there is no room for quarter. *



I agree. But people who live in the suburbs don't need to react to every situation with brutality.


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## cdhall (Oct 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jkn75 _
> 
> *I agree. But people who live in the suburbs don't need to react to every situation with brutality. *



I don't know for sure, but I don't think "suburbs" in Israel bear much resemblance to ones in the US.

:asian:


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## redfive (Oct 13, 2002)

Krav Maga is a quick fix system. You have to remember that this system is tought to the Israely military. Militaries do not have a lot of time to train solders in hand to hand combat. Solders are shooters first and weapons are the primary focus. It would be no different than if a U.S. Marine went to Isreal and opened a school  and tought what he learned in boot camp. It is a good method and is very practical, but it is nothing new and most of the techniques can be found in many other  systems, they just remove all the filler. Take Krav Maga and carry a H&K MP-5 or M16 and you will be good to go. But it is only part of a larger military training program. 
 American marketing is a great thing. People like cool names. It will be put into the catagory of arts that came and went. I'm sure the Palestinians have a version too. They just havent marketed it yet. 
                          Your Friend in the Arts. Redfive.


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## cdhall (Oct 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by redfive _
> 
> *Krav Maga is a quick fix system. You have to remember that this system is tought to the Israely military. Militaries do not have a lot of time to train solders in hand to hand combat. Solders are shooters first and weapons are the primary focus. It would be no different than if a U.S. Marine went to Isreal and opened a school  and tought what he learned in boot camp. It is a good method and is very practical, but it is nothing new and most of the techniques can be found in many other  systems, they just remove all the filler. Take Krav Maga and carry a H&K MP-5 or M16 and you will be good to go. But it is only part of a larger military training program.
> American marketing is a great thing. People like cool names. It will be put into the catagory of arts that came and went. I'm sure the Palestinians have a version too. They just havent marketed it yet.
> Your Friend in the Arts. Redfive. *



Very well said I think.
:asian:


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## KennethKu (Oct 22, 2002)

Yes, Krav Maga is simple, efficient. But that does not make it ineffective for self defence.  It  has its niche in self-defence  for those who want to defend themselves but are not interested in complete martial art.    The fact that it is good enough for military use, is a postive.   The reality is, how often do you have a self-defence situation that turns into a professional duel ?  Extremely unlikely.


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## thatoneguy (Oct 26, 2002)

i think you have to show some respect to Krav Maga
but i dont think it would be good against any real fighter
but then again how many people know how to truely fight
oh and krav maga was started before jkd and before mui thai became know to anybody 
im pretty sure


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## mtabone (Dec 30, 2002)

Krav Maga is nothing new under the sun. Very good marketing, that I will say. they did hire a PR agency. Very smart move. But it is really nothing new. As it was said before, Not alot of new ways to punch and kick.

Respectfully,
Michael Tabone


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## cdhall (Dec 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *Yes, Krav Maga is simple, efficient. But that does not make it ineffective for self defence.  It  has its niche in self-defence  for those who want to defend themselves but are not interested in complete martial art.    The fact that it is good enough for military use, is a postive.   The reality is, how often do you have a self-defence situation that turns into a professional duel ?  Extremely unlikely. *



Professional duel.
I like that.  I really like that.  Good points all together. :asian:


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## arnisador (Dec 31, 2002)

Too many arts seem to assume a duel rather than a fight.

I'd like to try Krav Maga some day. It sounds like a simple but effective program--but without trying it, who knows?


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## GouRonin (Jan 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Too many arts seem to assume a duel rather than a fight.
> I'd like to try Krav Maga some day. It sounds like a simple but effective program--but without trying it, who knows? *



Truer words were never spoken.


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## Samurai (Jan 22, 2003)

If you have been in Karate, TaeKwon-Do, or some other striking system for longer then 6 months....you know Krav Maga moves.  Krav Maga is simply using the quickest, most brutial method to overcome the attack without injury to yourself of others.

They do have some "cool principles" and applications that may or may not be in your martial art, but their is no magic in the moves.

Get the book on Krav Maga "Krav Maga: How to Defend Yourself Against Armed Assult".  It can be found at the bottom link.  IT is a good book.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...43767/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/104-9913184-1789519

--Jeremy Bays


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## Kempojujutsu (Jan 22, 2003)

I bought three of their tapes to see what they did. It is the same stuff I teach in Kempo Jujutsu. I didn't see any throw, locks, or chokes, but it was simple techniques, that work effectly. The other thing is they have one main defense with couple of different options. Some of the Kenpo systems I have seen, may have 5 or more defenses for each attack. My opinion is to have a couple ways to get out of any hold, but having 5 or more may cloud up your head. The last thing you want to do in self defense sitituation is to start thinking. You want to react and I think Krav Maga and JKD may teach this the best.
Bob:asian:


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## Zepp (Jan 22, 2003)

I also have to recommend the book.  It can teach you some nifty stuff about weapon disarms.

In my experience, the Krav Maga taught to civilians is more about how to incapacitate your attacker and escape, rather than killing them, but I'm sure the curriculum in Israel boot camp takes it a bit farther.

The man who founded it, Imi Sde-Or, was a boxer and a wrestler in his youth who gained his first fighting experience from defending the Jewish ghetto he lived in (in Prague I think) from local gangs.  It's been developed in the past 54 years or so based on the experiences of the soldiers that have had to use it.

Not the most comprehensive art, but it's seen plenty of successful use.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KennethKu _
> *Yes, Krav Maga is simple, efficient. But that does not make it ineffective for self defence.  It  has its niche in self-defence  for those who want to defend themselves but are not interested in complete martial art.    The fact that it is good enough for military use, is a postive.   The reality is, how often do you have a self-defence situation that turns into a professional duel ?  Extremely unlikely. *



Yup, and that's the bottom line line with this style. You just cut to the chase, shut down the threat as best you can, and get it over with ASAP. From what I've seen and read it can get pretty brutal. Nothing wrong with that. Each art has its place.


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## Samurai (Feb 6, 2003)

Kenpo Jiu-JItsu wrote:


> I didn't see any throw, locks, or chokes, but it was simple techniques, that work effectly.



There is a reason for that.  Original Krav Maga (OKM ??  Sound like Jeet Kune Do stuff now OJKD, JKDC...etc.) was designed for use by the elite military and the police officers.  In Israel, the primary threat is ARMED attackers (terrorists armed with guns, bombs, or knives).  Krav Maga teaches the person to enter fast, dispose of the threat, and exit fast.  There is not really a place for locks and throws.

The problem they see with locks is two-fold.  
1.) When you apply a lock, you USUALLY lock yourself as well.  You need to maintain that lock with one or both hands so this part of the body is "tied up" and cannot be used to fight someone else.

2.) Locks rely on pain compliance.  Most locks work because the attacker feels the pain and releases or whatever.  Krav Maga people do not have time to apply pain techniques when tension is high and people may have an elevated pain tolerance due to a rush or adrenaline  (remember some of the people are ready to blow themselves up, a little arm bar is not going to stop them)

THROWS are present in the art as well but they are used sparely.  If an attacker is skilled in breakfalling then a throw will simply move the person away from the defender.  Since Krav Maga is a close combat style (the name mean CONTACT FIGHTING) the goal is to stick to the attacker until they do down and then disengaged.  Also throws are limited against armed attackers.  If you use a throw against someone with a gun, you simply give them the space needed to fire their weapon.  I understand that you want to disarm before the throw, but that is perfect world thinking at times.  My Kali teacher (IMAA on this board) says that most disarms happen by accident.

This is a VERY basic level understanding of what I have been taught.  There ARE locks, and throws at higher levels in Krav Maga but they are reserved for later in training and they are "transports" from other arts.

Thanks
Jeremy Bays


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## Jas (Feb 6, 2003)

Krav reminds me of when I was a kid and a bigger kid would attack me, I just put my head down and swung wildly in hopes of landing that one lucky punch


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## Zepp (Feb 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jas _
> *Krav reminds me of when I was a kid and a bigger kid would attack me, I just put my head down and swung wildly in hopes of landing that one lucky punch *



I take it you've never taken a class in it then Jas?

I've met Israeli's who have had to use their military Krav Maga training before.  It's effective enough that they lived to tell me.


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## Jas (Feb 7, 2003)

Zepp,

   When I was in the Marines in a Recon unit we used to do what we called line trainning, it is hand to hand combat, we trainned in it hard and often. But the truth is as effective as it was in a military setting it probibly wouldnt work on the street because it is set up to be used when your in full battle dress (flak jacket, 782 gear, etc...) and your enemy is too. So because something says its a Military style doesnt mean it will work outside that setting. And nobody told me this I lived it


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## Zepp (Feb 7, 2003)

Good Jas.  If you've been trained in the military, you'll recognize effective techniques when you see them.  Try a few Krav Maga classes, and then tell me again about putting your head down and swinging wildly.


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## arnisador (Feb 7, 2003)

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5956


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## cali_tkdbruin (Feb 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jas _
> *Krav reminds me of when I was a kid and a bigger kid would attack me, I just put my head down and swung wildly in hopes of landing that one lucky punch *



 Can't knock it if it works...


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## arnisador (Feb 26, 2003)

Krav maga story (registration required);
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-123101defense,1,1222150.story


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## Mormegil (Feb 26, 2003)

I haven't been to a Krav Maga class, but something I "heard" about the training intrigued me.  I heard that they train under "stress" with people yelling and threatening.  Suppose to simmulate a terrorist operation or something.  That could be pretty handy to actually get a response, instead of freezing, since it doesn't seem like the relatively calm, organized dojo.


About the problem of locks.  Well, a lot of joint locks can be easily turned into breaks.  Just keep going, or go full speed.  At my school (I don't own it, I just attend it), we often train the supine arm lock, with legs over the head and chest.  We train, either with a slow deliberate locking motion, or we simulate an arm break pulling fast, but letting the arm go as we pull it in.  Granted, being in a supine position probably isn't a good idea in a terrorist situation, or even a street fight, but this was just an example.  You could also apply it to arm bars and such.

Back to Krav Maga, I also understand it tends to be more expensive that most martial art schools.

Does that J. Lo movie give a true flavor of Krav Maga?  I understand it's the latest thing in Hollywood.


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## arnisador (Feb 26, 2003)

The movie was discussed here--a search should turn it up.

The Sayoc Kali people train under stress like this too!


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## moromoro (Mar 28, 2003)

here in australia there has been two instructor seminars done by the cheif instructor in isreal, i think you pay so many thousands and after a few weeks you become an instructor in krav maga????

there has also been new KM schools open in every major city, they charge a heck of alot for 2hr training once a week and the instructors cannot grade you.... 

i was wondering how complex is the KM system??  currently iam not too impressed with the two week to instructor garbage, thats pretty much buying a grade, but iam sure the system has some good.....


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## arnisador (Apr 24, 2003)

The current (June 2003) issue of Black Belt magazine has an ad for videos/DVDs for the Israeli martial art of Haganah, founded by Mike Lee Kanarek. Evidently it's taught to Israeli special operations personnel (according to the ad) and can make a person nearly invincible in a very short time.


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## progressivetactics (Apr 24, 2003)

It is the y2k fad.  It was tae bo, it was yoshikai aikido, it was isshin ryu, it was ninjistsu, it was judo, it was jeet kune do.. Every couple of years, something comes in and it quickly goes out again of popularity.  Remember the ninja?  They were so good at stealth, you can't find a school anymore!

It is good training prinicples, but not necessarily a good art. It makes good sense as an add in to an art.  It teaches the important things like knees and elbows, that some traditional arts sometimes dont focus on.  

It was marketed very well, and seems like they took their time putting this plan into place. I see it being around for a bit before fading back to only a few schools per state.

bb


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## moromoro (Apr 24, 2003)

is haganna related to krav maga i have heard of haganna before but i could not find any in fo on it


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## Zepp (Apr 25, 2003)

"Haganah," in every context that I'm familiar with, was the name for foreign Jews who traveled to Israel in 1948-49 to help protect the Jewish state in it's war for survival.

There is no martial art called Haganah.  Mike Lee Kanarek may have learned Krav Maga, but he never trained, trained with, or learned from anyone in the special forces of Israel's military.  He is a fraud, plain and simple.

There are variations of Krav Maga that are taught to real Israeli special forces units (they have separate elite units for just about everything imaginable) that are adapted for various purposes.   (My source here is former Israeli soldiers.)

I don't really trust the large civilian Krav Maga organizations myself- they seem way too commercialized.  But if you find an independent instructor with credentials from the Israeli Defense Forces, you probably can't go too wrong.

moromoro, I think you'd find that much of Krav Maga resembles the unarmed components of the blade arts you've trained in.  At least, that's what I found when I took lessons in kali (or eskrima, depending on what you want to call it).


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

yes i noticed how some krav maga was similar to eskrima in unarmed, simple effective

Mike Lee Kanarek,  how does the system he teaches differ from krav maga????

thanks
for the help

terry


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## Zepp (Apr 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *Mike Lee Kanarek,  how does the system he teaches differ from krav maga????
> *



Looking at his bio on the webpage that arnisador mentioned, it seems like a mishmash of the various arts he supposedly trained in.  The "System Overview" given there sounds exactly like typical krav maga.  
There sure are lots of interesting credentials listed.  I think we all have better things to waste our money on than finding out what it is that Kanarek actually teaches.


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## A.R.K. (Apr 25, 2003)

I had the opportunity to train under Moti Horenstein in a 40 hr course at S.E.P.S.I. a couple of years ago in Krav Maga.  Very intense course, and very realistic and 'street' applicable.  He's up in New York [New city or something close?].  I would recommend him highly as he's a good instructor, very calm and has used what he teaches in real application.

:asian:


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## moromoro (Apr 25, 2003)

yes but isnt moti horenstien a karateka and dindnt he get his *** kicked in the UFC


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## A.R.K. (Apr 30, 2003)

I don't know if he has any other training besides Krav Maga and Ju Jitsu.  If my information is correct he is 2nd or 3rd generation from Krav Maga's founder.  The name Dennis Hanover comes to mind but I'm not familar with the background of Krav Maga, just many of the techniques.  He has served and trained in the IDF and I know personally that he has real world experience in this area with hand-to-hand combat.

I think he has won once in the UFC and lost several times.  But I'm not sure, I don't really follow these types of things.  My opinion is that they are as realistic as a MA's tournament i.e. they are not.  If it has a referee, rules, time outs etc it isn't very real world and how well or poorly an individual does in them may not reflect their true capabilities.

He's a good teacher, this I do know.  And a fine friend.

:asian:


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## moromoro (May 1, 2003)

he lost all his fights in the ufc, 
and he even walk to the octagon in a karete uniform and they first annouced him a karate then survival.............

he also has a karate background


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## A.R.K. (May 1, 2003)

With respect I think he has won one of them.  I couldn't tell you who but I'll take a look.

:asian:


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## A.R.K. (May 1, 2003)

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=139

It looks as if he is 1 and 5 at the time of this information.  I can't tell you how up to date it is, I don't follow these things.  He won against a Patrick Smith at the Bass Ruten Invitational.  Don't know if it's UFC or not?  

But again, even though these are 'tough' contests they still are not reality.  An individuals record may or may not reflect actual street ability and certainly not teaching ability.

:asian:


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## moromoro (May 2, 2003)

no its not ufc, and his match was a kickboxing match


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## A.R.K. (May 2, 2003)

Ok, I suppose I'm not following your point regarding the whole thing.....?

:idunno:


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## moromoro (May 3, 2003)

my point is that moti horenstien has a karate background but then changed his style and called it survival!!!!!!!!!


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## moromoro (May 3, 2003)

he may be a good teacher but >>>>>


> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *my point is that moti horenstien has a karate background but then changed his style and called it survival!!!!!!!!! *



also he did lose in the ufc

and i dont think he has an extensive KM background


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## A.R.K. (May 5, 2003)

So


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## moromoro (May 20, 2003)

so,.,

he may be a skilled fighter but i think he is a karate master and his KM may be a recent addition


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## A.R.K. (May 20, 2003)

What took you so long to reply?


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## moromoro (May 21, 2003)

sorry man, i was suspended for expressing politically orientated views that the american FMA public dont want to hear........ 


thanks man

terry


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## arnisador (May 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *sorry man, i was suspended for expressing politically orientated views that the american FMA public dont want to hear........ *



This is not correct.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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## Bob Hubbard (May 21, 2003)

See this thread:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=8053

for the details on why Terry was on 'vacation'.


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## arnisador (May 28, 2003)

The current issue of Black Belt (July 2003) includes an article on haganah, stating it comes from the IDF art lotar and that another IDF art is kapap.

The current issue of Budo Intl. (June 2003) includes an article on Kung Fu Toa, an Iranian art created by Ibrahim Mirzali that has been taught to the Iranian army.


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## Arthur (May 28, 2003)

Kapap is the original term used for Krav Maga.

Arthur


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## arnisador (Jun 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Arthur _
> *Kapap is the original term used for Krav Maga.*



I got the impression the term is still used, perhaps for the version that is taught to the military--is that correct?


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## Arthur (Jun 1, 2003)

"Counter-marketing".

Arthur


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## moromoro (Jun 5, 2003)

i have just recieved another invitation to a local KM seminar, (i called them once and now they have my name and address) in brisbane australia the seminar is run by two guys who got there instructorships in a two week seminar late last year (paid over 3000 for it).

does this happen in your area.


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## A.R.K. (Jun 5, 2003)

Never checked into taking a KM course.  Moti was hosted by SEPSI for an DT Instructor only seminar that the agency sent me to.  I liked it very much.  However, not all of it was what I would term 'duty-applicable' in the real world.

But I feel if just one new/revised thing can be picked up here and there it is time well spent.

:asian:


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## Zepp (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by moromoro _
> *i have just recieved another invitation to a local KM seminar, (i called them once and now they have my name and address) in brisbane australia the seminar is run by two guys who got there instructorships in a two week seminar late last year (paid over 3000 for it).
> 
> does this happen in your area. *



I'm not on any KM lists (that I know of), so I wouldn't know for sure.  But I'd guess that it does.  That kinda thing isn't unique to krav maga.

Like I said, the best way to know that your krav maga instruction is legit is to train under someone who's served in the Israeli Defense Forces.  Civilian KM organizations worry me.


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## Arthur (Jun 24, 2003)

> Like I said, the best way to know that your krav maga instruction is legit is to train under someone who's served in the Israeli Defense Forces.



A mighty excellent point, I must say!

Arthur


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## arnisador (Oct 29, 2003)

The current (Nov. 2003) issue of Budo Intl. has an article on Kapap.


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2003)

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20031117-092204-5722r.htm


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## Loki (Apr 11, 2004)

Zepp said:
			
		

> Like I said, the best way to know that your krav maga instruction is legit is to train under someone who's served in the Israeli Defense Forces. Civilian KM organizations worry me.


I hope this forum is still active and I'm not just wasting time.

In the States, that could be the case, but in Israel, you could be sued for that. A military Krav Maga instructor has a military course certificate. That means he's qualified to teach soldiers. A civilian instructor is LEGITIMATELY allowed to instruct anyone. 

I myself have been practicing Krav Maga for 2½ years now in Israel. I just finished an instructors course in the Wingate Institute under the tutelage of Haim Zut, one of the people who pretty much invented the modern Krav Maga.

One of the benefits of such a course is that we're allowed to try to poke holes in the system and Haim has to try to hold out. There were 15 of us. We could throw no question Haim couldn't answer. Every technique has it's place for a reason.

Krav Maga isn't a martial art. It's fighting style. It's quick, efficient and brutal. My instructor, at the age of 17, a black belt at the time, beat up a group of about 15 kids who picked on his friend. Don't believe me? You should see the footwork on that guy. Krav Maga doesn't presume to be innovative. Haim himself told us he studied a variety of martial arts and took into Krav Maga what he deemed efficient. This is still being done.

If you have any question regarding Krav Maga, please feel free to ask. I'm trying to get into an instructor's position in the military, so I might be able to answer military related questions as well.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 11, 2004)

are there diferences in the way Kav Maga is taught to the milatary then civilians?  
 Best of luck getting accepted to teach the military.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 11, 2004)

Never a waste of time.  We're always glad to see knowlegable folks posting.  You never know just when critical mass is hit, and a forum erupts into life. 

Welcome to MT.


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 11, 2004)

Much of the problem today, I think, derives from those claimin to know the system and teaching quicky courses for $$$$.
To many people with certificates that mean nothing but teach what is in vouge .


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## Loki (Apr 12, 2004)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> are there diferences in the way Kav Maga is taught to the milatary then civilians?
> Best of luck getting accepted to teach the military.


Thanks ;-)

Krav Maga is borken up into three principle organizations in Israel - Kapap, IKMF and Israeli Krav Maga (Krav Magen, a derivative of Krav Maga, doesn't count). Each is headed by one of Imi Lichtenfeld's senior students, each of having slightly or significantly different material. These are all civilian organizations

All of them use a belt system as follows: white, yellow, orange, green, blue, brown, black 1-5, black 6-10 (honorary ranks). The material starts from the simpler to the more complicated (e.g. Releases from chokes are for yellow belt, defending against gun threat is for brown belt). Unlike traditional martial arts where katas are executed for each test, when testing for a rank in Krav Maga, one has to show all the techniques for his new belt as well as all the techniques for the preceding ranks. In addtion, one must show his proficiency
in several rounds of hand-to-hand combat, their content dictated by the rank being tested for. For example, a test for orange belt requires a slow fist fight and a slow fight (hands and feet), while a test for black 2 requires a slow fist fight, as fast fist fight, a slow fight, a fast fight, a fight against two opponents, 2 rounds against an attacker armed with a stick and 2 rounds against an attacker armed with a knife. All fights for all ranks are full contact.

In the military, krav maga is taught on a need-to-know basis. If your position has nothing to do with combat (e.g. flight sim operator), you learn some basic strikes with a rifle as part of boot camp. If your job does require use of specific unarmed combat techniques, you're taught according to need. There are drills for Air Marshalls (such as neutralizing a greande threat or a man threatening a third individual/crowd), Riot Control units (neutralizing a rioter, use of a police shield and baton to quell riots), Special Forces (sentry takedowns with a knife/rope/bare hands), bodyguards/protective detail (defending a third person from an oncoming attacker) and techniques that should be generally known to soldiers, such as violent situations in a car (terrorists kidnap soldiers from time to time).
This material is also taught to civilian practitioners in the higher black ranks.

There are also games which civilian practitioners are taught (not sure about the military). One of my favorites is where four fighters surround a fifth in a semi-circle facing him while a sixth one stands behind him and points to one of the four surrounding him and that one attacks the center fighter. The central fighter has to block and counter. The sixth fighter alternates between his four comrades and can occasionally go for a choke/nelson/bearhug which the central fighter has to release himself from and continue fighting.

So to summarize, the basic difference is that the civilian training is more comprehensive and thorough, while the military focuses on what's relevant to the profession.


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## Loki (Apr 12, 2004)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Much of the problem today, I think, derives from those claimin to know the system and teaching quicky courses for $$$$.
> To many people with certificates that mean nothing but teach what is in vouge .


That could be the case in the States, and I know it is the case with some Israeli-based organizations, but Kapap, for example, focuses on teaching people how to defend themselves. The classes I take cost 150 NIS per month (about 33 US Dollars), a ridiculous amount for the amount of training I get. Training is twice a week, and since the groups are age (not rank) based, teens can train in the adult session and vice versa. That comes up to 4 sessions weekly for 33 bucks. And as if that weren't enough, my instructor has arranged for me and anyone else interested to train in a different a different dojo he instructs in free of charge. So the last thing I can say about Kapap is that they're greedy.


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## KennethKu (Apr 12, 2004)

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> Much of the problem today, I think, derives from those claimin to know the system and teaching quicky courses for $$$$.
> To many people with certificates that mean nothing but teach what is in vouge .



as if that is only found in Krav Maga.....


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## arnisador (Apr 13, 2004)

What _is_ Krav Magen?


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## Loki (Apr 13, 2004)

arnisador said:
			
		

> What _is_ Krav Magen?


Krav Magen is a fighting style that is extremely similar to Krav Maga and derives from it. The who invented the style was one of Imi's high-ranking students. It is well-spread out and well-marketed in Israel today, although it is less professional than Krav Maga.

Check it out at http://www.kami.org.il/index_eng.htm


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## Jonathan Randall (Jan 28, 2005)

moromoro said:
			
		

> here in australia there has been two instructor seminars done by the cheif instructor in isreal, i think you pay so many thousands and after a few weeks you become an instructor in krav maga????
> 
> there has also been new KM schools open in every major city, they charge a heck of alot for 2hr training once a week and the instructors cannot grade you....
> 
> i was wondering how complex is the KM system?? currently iam not too impressed with the two week to instructor garbage, thats pretty much buying a grade, but iam sure the system has some good.....


My understanding, from following their (KM) forum, is that the two week instructor cert. programs are for individuals already proficient in the MA and who have been taking KM classes and workshops for some time previous to attendin the cert. course. That would make it more of a "Finishing School" than a "Basic Training". I personally have mixed feelings about some of KM but all of my personal contact with the L.A. group has been positive and I consider them to be a professional organization with integrity.


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## Loki (Apr 21, 2005)

GouRonin said:
			
		

> Good point. I think many people dismiss it because they work on the perception that your opponent will be untrained. But many martial arts systems do that.
> 
> Many however, don't.


Not true. Krav Maga (at least as taught by Haim Zut, 10th Dan) assumes your opponent could be anyone, from a drunk to a fellow martial artist. I was surprised yesterday to execute a certain technique against a lef-right jab and to be told by Mr. Zut that it was removed from KM curriculum because it wouldn't work against a Karate practitioner. KM is definitely a thinking style.

~ Loki


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## Grubic (May 19, 2005)

Just to get some life back into this thread...  I was supposed to have my free lesson in KM yesterday.  Had to cancel at the last second unfortunately.  I'm rescheduled for next week and can't wait.  I finally have "only" work to do so I can now begin to train again.  It's been so long that I just want to jump in and start already but now I gotta wait til next Wed.  Eh all good things come to those that wait


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## TeenTendo (Jul 4, 2014)

a good article  Krav Maga - A History and Style Guide of Krav Maga


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## Vitor (Feb 16, 2017)

Hu Ren Qianzai Long said:


> Does anyone have any info on Krav Maga? Thanks! :asian:



Krav Maga is a very practical style of self-defense and is used by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to train soldiers and civilians to become efficient in a short amount of time.
Krav Maga is an aggressive, anti-terrorist survival system without rules. It deals with personal safety issues in the context of defending against both armed and unarmed attackers with only one objective: to eliminate the threat in the fastest way possible.

Counterattacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
Targeting attacks to the body’s most vulnerable points.
Maximum effectiveness and efficiency.
Maintaining awareness of surroundings.

Vitor Ferreira
Former Special Forces
Montreal Krav Maga Chief Instructor
mkmcanada.com


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## Dylan9d (Feb 23, 2017)

Vitor said:


> Krav Maga is a very practical style of self-defense and is used by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to train soldiers and civilians to become efficient in a short amount of time.
> Krav Maga is an aggressive, anti-terrorist survival system without rules. It deals with personal safety issues in the context of defending against both armed and unarmed attackers with only one objective: to eliminate the threat in the fastest way possible.
> 
> Counterattacking as soon as possible (or attacking preemptively).
> ...



Could you please stop the promo talk..........


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## Tez3 (Feb 23, 2017)

Dylan9d said:


> Could you please stop the promo talk..........



I would imagine the OP is probably an expert on KM if he took it up as he posted in 2002, I doubt he's still on MT too as I haven't seen his name since.


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