# Response to axe kick? (or other attacks)



## Nabakatsu (Jul 24, 2010)

I was just thinking about it, I've never really seen a response to an axe kick before, I would think if you were fast enough if you could move in really fast you could work some nasty stuff. kick his standing leg if you were close enough, if not step in deep with a fak sau? 
Curious to know too, if someone has trained an oh **** response to when perhaps they got away from close range fast, you tried to follow, but weren't fast enough, and than your charging into an axe kick, or some other kind of technique for that matter.


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## hunt1 (Jul 24, 2010)

Some people are just good at what they do. If you fight you will get hit or kicked.

 Best way to learn to deal with an axe kick is go spar for real with a TKD black belt or two. Tell them you want to see some axe kicks done for real. See enough and you will learn how to deal with them.  I vividly recall my first meeting with a hook kick. Never got caught with one since but that first one wakes you up. Movement of any sort is always better than not.

 Never chase , never, if someone moves out of your range that's fine. If they want to hit you they have to move back into range if they don't the fight and threat are over so all is good.


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## mook jong man (Jul 24, 2010)

Its important that you don't think of specific counters to specific attacks .
There are so many ways that one could potentially be attacked that its impossible to have a specific counter to each one.

If your head is filled with endless lists of counters it is debatable as to whether you will be able to respond spontaneously to attack.

We can make this easier by thinking more in terms of types of force and the direction that the force is going in.

Is the force coming straight in at the centreline , is it circular , is it coming from above ,  is it coming from below, or  from the side.

In answer to your question for an axe kick , we should be in the first instance trying to jam the kick and follow up before it even gets off the floor.

But if we are only able to pick it at a late phase , then because the attack is coming from above we can use a Seung Bong (double bong sau) that is both arms raised high above head in parallel formation , close together for maximum resistance , we then redirect the force down and to the side while pivoting , then you can follow up with a Fak sau.

Alternatively you could use the same technique but team it up with a side stamping kick to the support leg.

I have also just charged in with a Dai Sau and punch before , the Dai Sau is just raising your arm from the guard straight up like one side of a triangle , this has the effect of jamming their leg up high and they are knocked off balance .

We do give chase and we use various combinations of low  chain kicks which enable us to cover ground rapidly and with some fire power.
The reason is we don't want that person in front of us to be in his comfortable kicking range , we want to get in close where we are comfortable and close him down with our hands. 

A good exercise for being able to stop someone getting away from you and being to react effectively when they do , is this one .

When you are doing Chi Sau have your partner break off suddenly at random times , in the first drill we will try to feel for when he is about to break off and try to latch him back in with our hands .

The next drill he has got away from our hands  and so  we will use a thrust kick or medium heel kick as he is retreating .

The last drill he will break away and retreat as fast as he can for several steps , in this one you will use a sequence of kicks to chase him as soon as he breaks contact then close in with hands .


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 24, 2010)

Get off the line of attack.
Sean


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## mook jong man (Jul 24, 2010)

Touch Of Death said:


> Get off the line of attack.
> Sean


 
Your strategy is sound and we could treat it as though  it was a charging side kick , and step 45 degrees to the outside with suitable secondary arm defence and attack the support leg with a Wing Chun side kick from the wooden dummy.

But this would have to assume that the attack was launched from some distance and we were able to read his intentions at an early phase of the attack.


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## profesormental (Jul 25, 2010)

I was once in a fighting match against a TKD guy... he threw the axe kick, I stepped in close, blocked the kick with my left arm, sun punched him in the body with my right, my right leg checked his base leg...

and he was horizontal on the air and fell hard to the floor. Had to go to the hospital... he fell hard on his hip.

I wouldn't worry too much about it... just step in covered and push... no balance.


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## cwk (Jul 25, 2010)

I think most of us on here will agree, that the best way to deal with a kick that comes from any other angle than straight on is to either:
1. step away out of range of the kick if you see it coming late and try to counter as the momentum takes them around.

2. Step into it if you see it coming early. once you can make contact with their knee and upper thigh you are relatively safe from the kick and there are numerous ways to hurt the kicker from here.


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## dungeonworks (Jul 25, 2010)

I defend/counter the axe kick the same way as I do anyother non-linear kick that requires chambering the leg first.....with a linear kick to the belt area, focusing on speed over power because when they are on one foot for that second, you only need to touch them to off balance them.  Then, once contact is made close the gap and take advantage while or until they can correct their self.

I used that MANY times in Karate and Kickboxing prior to any Wing Chun training.  Harder to do against a roundhouse from an adept kicker though, but easier than one may think if you stay relaxed.


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## dungeonworks (Jul 25, 2010)

...oh, and if it is an axe kick, you would be darn near punching range anyways since this is a downward attack unless the dude has exceptionally long legs.  A Chunner should be able to close the gap and catch them in the middle of the kick attempt, even if they feint or setup with a hand striking technique.  The axe kick is a great kick to use if the person sets it up right, but I myself consider it a low percentage for success for myself and my abilities.  I been caught a time or two by them from lankier built fighters with longer legs.


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## dosk3n (Jul 25, 2010)

I would step in towards it. Most kicks are like whips and the power comes from the end just the same as a whip. Step in and you move to the area of less force. Even if you miss the block and he hits you since youve moved in its not going to be as bad as getting hit from the end (foot).


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 25, 2010)

The same response I have to ANY above-waist kick:

Catch it, and while their weight is posted on the other leg, either:

*Stomp the knee right out of it

* or kick them back into their groin

* and then either throw them back by the suspended leg, or twist them over by the suspended leg into an ankle lock from which you can do anything else you want.

Not very numerous, or complicated, but they cover it.


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## mook jong man (Jul 25, 2010)

Andy Moynihan said:


> The same response I have to ANY above-waist kick:
> 
> Catch it, and while their weight is posted on the other leg, either:
> 
> ...


 
While its probably a viable technique its not really in keeping with the Wing Chun concept of Lin Sil Die Dar ( simultaneous counter attack ).
Which is what as Wing Chun practitioners we should be trying to use where ever possible.

If we are a bit slow off the mark in moving in , a suitable option would be  a snap kick to the groin taking advantage of the target exposure afforded by the very high position of his leg.

 At the same time making sure to cover your head and redirect if need be with the appropriate double arm defence , Seung Bong is ideal for this because it can be used to deflect heavy force coming down on you.

Actually its the same arm movement we use against an over head  baseball bat attack , which if you think about  it , is not at all dissimilar to the mechanics of the axe kick.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jul 25, 2010)

mook jong man said:


> While its probably a viable technique its not really in keeping with the Wing Chun concept of Lin Sil Die Dar ( simultaneous counter attack ).


 
Sorry I wasn't more clear, I was trying to describe the counterkick to the leg as occurring at or just immediately after the catch of the kick( much like Bruce Lee did with Chuck Norris several times in their filmed Colosseum fight in Way of the Dragon) I believe the oblique kick off the back leg was a technique he did retain from wing chun if that clarifies?


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## Nicholas82555 (Jul 25, 2010)

As a former soldier, I had a ROK soldier as an instructor. The 1st mistake I made in defense of an axe kick was to meet it head on which cost me a swollen forearm. I learned quickly when this technique was thrown at me again either to back completely out of range because the kick can be extended or once it's launched quickly jam it throwing your opponent off balance and following through with an appropriate technique (s). I'm sure there are other ways to defend against this technique but the jamming and uprooting of my opponent opened up a number of follow techniques to use.


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## mook jong man (Jul 25, 2010)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Sorry I wasn't more clear, I was trying to describe the counterkick to the leg as occurring at or just immediately after the catch of the kick( much like Bruce Lee did with Chuck Norris several times in their filmed Colosseum fight in Way of the Dragon) I believe the oblique kick off the back leg was a technique he did retain from wing chun if that clarifies?


 
The problem I see with catching the leg is that there might be an element of strength required , and may leave the head exposed to punches .

By design Wing Chun is a very close range system and prefers to use legs to deal with leg attacks while keeping the hands unencumbered to deal with arm attacks.


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## mook jong man (Jul 26, 2010)

Nicholas82555 said:


> As a former soldier, I had a ROK soldier as an instructor. The 1st mistake I made in defense of an axe kick was to meet it head on which cost me a swollen forearm. I learned quickly when this technique was thrown at me again either to back completely out of range because the kick can be extended or once it's launched quickly jam it throwing your opponent off balance and following through with an appropriate technique (s). I'm sure there are other ways to defend against this technique but the jamming and uprooting of my opponent opened up a number of follow techniques to use.


 
We will meet the attack head on because that is the direct thing to do .
But we will meet it head on in such a way with our guard up protecting our head and moving straight down the centreline
We don't meet the force with a perpendicular arm structure which will result in a clash , our guard is in the shape of a triangle or wedge and any force meeting the guard will sheer off down the sides of the guard.

Any attempt to back out of range will just give him more space to launch follow up techniques and prolong the encounter , we must move in quickly to attack his balance and structure so as to put him in a position where further attacks are impossible.

In Wing Chun we are always seeking to counter quickly and move into range  at the first sign of movement , this is aggressive and gives us a chance to counter before the opponents attack can build up to full speed and force.


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