# Question For LEO's (and others) How Would You Handle Deaf and Blind Person?



## MA-Caver (Aug 10, 2011)

My father is deaf and blind. He and I sometimes travel together for long distances (3X from TN to (east and northern) VA and back). Often I wondered if I were to get pulled over (for WHATEVER reason) and the officer wanted both of us out of the vehicle (for a search) then how to deal with a person who is deaf and blind and may be separated from their interpreter/SSP (Sighted Support Person)? 
Or another scenario, we've sometimes stop to get cold drinks or coffee and I go in while he waits in the car (his choice sometimes) and I walk into a robbery and was shot. He's sitting in the car and honestly speaking the first person to open his door (presumably after knocking and yelling through the window) had better know sign-language and know to (gently) sign into his hands. Because he's not going to know WHO/WHAT you are and will only assume that he's being attacked. Lemme toss a couple drops of gas on to the fire, he's 85 years old (looks sixty), and still strong as he was when he was 50 (which, was pretty dang strong). I know officers do NOT like being wrassled with... well neither does my dad, unless he _knows_ it's playing around. 
Oh and just one more... he wears a defibrillator under his skin above his heart so Tasing him would NOT be a great idea. 
So how would you deal with that? Another question is... what can I do if I'm not able to communicate his disability to the officer(s), i.e. lying in the store (dead or dying) or back of an ambulance unconscious. 

I've thought of having some kind of sign by his (passenger) window that calls attention to the fact... but realize that criminals can read as well and some are opportunists, or they perceive something as an easy mark, (woe to the idiot that tries THAT!). So don't want to call attention to THEM. 

Having HIM carry a card and all that is fine... he knows enough to present it to a (verified) officer... once the officer has been *ahem* verified. 

I realize that many officers would know to bring an sign-language interpreter asap and writing back and forth with a deaf person is an acceptable communication until that happens. Whaddya do when the person can't SEE to read and can't HEAR to acknowledge your understanding?

These are some of the things I've thought about while on those long drives. Even in town driving to the store or doctor. No, I don't anticipate getting pulled over but it does happen from time to time to nearly everyone. 
So, I have concerns and questions about it.

Feedback is appreciated.


----------



## Stealthy (Aug 10, 2011)

If there was any doubt as to what might happen to your Dad, slap one of these shirts on him before you go out and tell him it's got the logo for his favourite beer on it.

http://www.hhv.de/item_222073.html


Seriously though just keep praying, not much else you can do.


----------



## fangjian (Aug 10, 2011)

Makes me think about when I took a year of ASL classes in college, and one of our assignments was to go out with a classmate and pretend we're deaf. It was great fun and a very _interesting_ experience. Amazing how people are different when communicating with you. 

Regarding your father, have you ever asked him for his opinion regarding this type of scenario?


----------



## Buka (Aug 10, 2011)

I never interacted with someone both deaf and blind while on the job. (retired now) I've dealt with deafness and with blindness, but not both together. I have no idea what I would have done. Radioed my supervisor and sought advice, I guess. Sure hope he'd have good advice for me.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Tough question.  Have you contacted organizations that deal with that?  I'm sure you must know some.  I don't, but since we have deaf people where I work, I could try and find out if you or your father have never been put in touch with them.  I can't believe they haven't been asked that and come up with a solution.


----------



## Cyriacus (Aug 10, 2011)

Well, i can only theorise, but if i were an LEO; Id gently hold him back with one hand, and radio for support with the other.
I mean, as far as they know, the guy they think is their... Lets say Son, might be a Kidnapper, and how could an LEO know any better than to take the word of the apparent only legal Guardian? Thats one hell of a conundrum.


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 10, 2011)

I've dealt with deaf subjects, and with blind subjects.  Thankfully, never with one who was both deaf and blind.

For the deaf -- I've learned a very few signs.  Generally, I rely on writing, and body language.  I know some basics of courtesy, like that you have to be in their line of sight for them to recognize that you're dealing with THEM, and not someone else.  Some (a fair number in my personal experience, but not enough to rely on) can lip read somewhat -- but it's far from reliable.  It's really not that different from dealing with someone who speaks a foreign language that you don't.  The signs may not be ASL -- but some "common sense" signs are understandable, like pointing at the mouth and stomach for eat/drink/hungry.  We've got enough in my jurisdiction that it's something I'm aware of.

For the blind -- generally, you just have to remember that they won't see body language or pointing fingers.  I know how to lead a blind person, for example.  

Neither deafness or lack of sight makes a person stupid!  (I've unfortunately seen a few folks, including partners who did seem to think that.)

For deaf AND blind... it's going to be hard.  Thanks for making me think it through now rather than in a crisis.  Probably start by guiding a hand to my badge, either on my chest or in my credential case.  From there, it's going to have to be guide/move them to where I need, while I work hard to get a translator who can communicate.  If I've got something practical, like access to some magnetic letters or even kid's blocks, maybe try "writing" a message that they could feel...  Don't know if it'd work, but it's worth a try, y'know?  (Kind of a long shot to have the stuff available, though.)  Hopefully, someone will be there with them to help.  Now I know that I can try using a "standard" sign language interpreter to sign into their hands.


----------



## MA-Caver (Aug 10, 2011)

Although I didn't intended to it does seem to put you LEO's backs against the wall don't it? Food for thought. While you may go through your whole career and never have to interact with a person with a specific disability it's something that I feel strongly that every LEO officer has to at least a basic understanding of what needs to be done. To get a good feel for it... try those earplugs you wear on the firing range and blindfold yourself for the entire day and see how the other half lives (so to speak), then multiply that by a life-time. 
Realize also that a deaf person's balance is not all that great because of the lack of natural equilibrium provided by the ears, so if they stagger a bit ... they're not (always) drunk. The problem is compounded when they're also blind and not seeing un-even terrain i.e. side of the freeway and sidewalk curbing. 

Getting them to feel your badge (again every single move YOU make must be slow and gentle -- just like you want your perps/suspects to act :lol2: ) and thus they'll know at least they're dealing with a LEO... let them take YOUR forearm (not the other way around because even among sighted deaf-people that's a no-no. Reasons why I'll explain later) and watch where they put their feet and/or if you have to (if you can handle it) on a narrow space (again freeway shoulders can slope sharply in some places) their hands go on your shoulders from behind until you can walk them to the back of the vehicle or to yours, otherwise find an easier route, i.e around the front to the driver's side where the pavement isn't as sketchy. 

If you MUST handcuff them (can't imagine why you would need to) ... the cuffs *got* to go on the FRONT because a deaf-blind's communication is with their hands, to "speak" and READ sign-language via interpreter or signing officer doing the signs in their palms, like what JKS said -- where they can "read" the hand-shapes and subtle movements. Otherwise they can freak out because they have NO idea what's happening around them. Not saying they will, but if the circumstances are "charged" i.e. aftermath of an accident and/or SOP calls for it due to suspect DUI, they would need their "driver/interpreter/guide/ssp to let them know). Explain it simply and briefly. Keep questions simple and easy... it's not that they're dumb or slow... it's easier to read the signs. I know SOP says handcuffs go behind the suspect but special dispensations have to be made or you'll have lots of trouble in court. Remember they have the ADA on their side. All legal stuff such as reading Miranda or questioning can be done at the station OR wait by the side of the road until a qualified interpreter shows up. 
Something that an officer might think about keeping in their glove box is a 3X5 (or larger) card that has braille on it saying something to the effect that you are "...an LEO and that an interpreter is on way soon. Please relax and wait patiently where (I am) guiding you to". As there are those deaf/blind who can read braille... like my father... who teaches braille to other deaf/blind individuals. 

The "no-no" on the arm grab. In my 50 years experience with deaf people, they simply just DO not like being grabbed on the arm (even in play). It's a natural instinct for them to shrug it off (sometimes violently), so it's not necessarily resisting arrest. Take 'em by the elbow if you have to. Sighted deaf however; will know that they're busted and a very simple way to do it is to show the cuffs to them and they'll know what they need to do, just don't expect them to talk to you. Deaf blind... ehhh whellll like I said restricting communication to someone who has lost virtually 90% of their sensory input... 
My father is late blinded (lost his from laser surgery when it was just brand new technology some 12-15 years ago), so he does have a good understanding of how things work. Some deaf-blind are born that way or lost theirs at childhood via disease, accident, whatever. So they don't have the benefit of seeing cops in action on tv or reading about it. Sadly education levels can be lower than most if they haven't gone to a good school which accommodates them, that would be more common out in the rural areas than inner cities. 

More input? Ideas? Bounce the idea around the station and see what ideas/thoughts/suggestions come up.


----------



## jks9199 (Aug 11, 2011)

I posted this on a LE forum I belong to HERE.  It'll be interesting to see what develops.


----------



## MA-Caver (Aug 11, 2011)

jks9199 said:


> I posted this on a LE forum I belong to HERE.  It'll be interesting to see what develops.


 Badges with braille on them... very thoughtful idea. Writing with finger tip into the palm is do-able as well as long as it's kept simple i.e. wait here (if an interpreter has been called for and is enroute), and done slowly. Nurses write my father's pulse and blood-pressure numbers in his palm.


----------



## OKenpo942 (Aug 13, 2011)

Lot of "what if's" here, but I like the idea of the braille card. Could be useful. I too have dealt with both, but never both with one individual. Interesting.

James


----------



## Cyriacus (Aug 13, 2011)

OKenpo942 said:


> Lot of "what if's" here, but I like the idea of the braille card. Could be useful. I too have dealt with both, but never both with one individual. Interesting.
> 
> James


_What if_, this person went Deaf and Blind before they could learn Braille?
You dont exactly _plan_ on going Deaf and Blind.


----------



## MA-Caver (Aug 14, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> _What if_, this person went Deaf and Blind before they could learn Braille?


One of the things that my father loves to do is teach other deaf/blind individuals how to read braille... yes it's possible, ah've seen it dun.


----------



## Cyriacus (Aug 14, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> One of the things that my father loves to do is teach other deaf/blind individuals how to read braille... yes it's possible, ah've seen it dun.


But how the hell do you tell them what theyre feeling, or how to interprit it, if they have no prior knowledge? Firstly youd need to make them aware that what they were feeling was Braille. Then you would need to translate the Braille into the Alphabet. Then youd need them to be able to Retend it.

I can see it as perhaps being plausible, but id really like to know how the hell you get the first step underway. I mean, they might think your some old lady, running their fingers over lightly scratched wood. How would they know who you were or what you were trying to do?

EDIT:
Actually, i may have just amazed myself and thought of a way. Does it involve Stencils, to spell out Words which they would run their fingers through, so as to feel the shape of the letters, to tell them who you are and your intentions; And then having them feel a Letter, and then the Braille for it, so as to create the association? Perhaps using tapping to approve or disapprove? 1 Tap for Yes, 2 Taps for No?


----------



## MA-Caver (Aug 14, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> But how the hell do you tell them what theyre feeling, or how to interprit it, if they have no prior knowledge? Firstly youd need to make them aware that what they were feeling was Braille. Then you would need to translate the Braille into the Alphabet. Then youd need them to be able to Retend it.
> 
> I can see it as perhaps being plausible, but id really like to know how the hell you get the first step underway. I mean, they might think your some old lady, running their fingers over lightly scratched wood. How would they know who you were or what you were trying to do?
> 
> ...


Nope and it's a different thread altogether. But it's do-able by the "illiterate" blind/deaf person already knowing sign-language and then letting them know what they're feeling is braille... this is A ... this is B and so forth. Nearly all the deaf-blind's I've met have a prior knowledge of sign language.


----------



## Cyriacus (Aug 15, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> Nope and it's a different thread altogether. But it's do-able by the "illiterate" blind/deaf person already knowing sign-language and then letting them know what they're feeling is braille... this is A ... this is B and so forth. Nearly all the deaf-blind's I've met have a prior knowledge of sign language.


   I may be missing something, but how can you use Sign Language if they cannot see the signs?


----------



## MA-Caver (Aug 15, 2011)

Cyriacus said:


> I may be missing something, but how can you use Sign Language if they cannot see the signs?


 Read the OP and other posts again pls. You sign into their hand (palm down) and they can ascertain the lettering, or sign by the shape... (try it).


----------



## Balrog (Aug 15, 2011)

Buka said:


> I never interacted with someone both deaf and blind while on the job. (retired now) I've dealt with deafness and with blindness, but not both together. I have no idea what I would have done. Radioed my supervisor and sought advice, I guess. Sure hope he'd have good advice for me.


+1 on this.  I never came across the situation and I am very happy that I didn't.


----------

