# I want some opinions...



## Cryozombie (Mar 7, 2009)

In January at training one night, a fellow student had arrived late, and parked in a no parking area. Leaving class, it was snowing hard, and visibility was somewhat impared and as I backed up, I did not see his car and backed into it.

I put a minor dent in his front quarter panel, immediatly parked and went in and told him what happened. I Gave my instructor's wife my insurance card so she could copy it for him, and asked for his.

He informed me he was driving without insurance. He took my info, and said that he could call and renew his policy the next day, we could hold off reporting the accident until then. I considered it, but declined, as that bordered too close to insurance fraud for my tastes. Instead, I asked him to call me the next day, I know someone who works for a body shop, I can have him check the car, see if we can pull the dent, or quote me on replacing it. He called at 1am, asking if he could come by with it. I told him it was 1 in the morning and no one was going to be able to do anything, call me the following day.

He called me later the following day stating he took the car to his uncle, who was going to do the repair for him. 

So to shorten a story that's getting longer, His uncle used expensive OEM parts to replace it and then repainted it. He wanted me to pay like 2/3s of the cost, I told him I would conceed to paying my deductable since thats what I would have had to pay if my insurance paid, but he had to wait until my tax refund came.

Now, hes all over my junk for cash because, and I quote "I need it to pay for some wedding expenses."

I again acknowlaged the fact that I would get him some cash, but it had to wait until my tax refund came, that I know it sucks, but putting it in perspective if he had insurance at the time, he would have been paid and there wouldnt be an issue.

He got back to me this morning, and told me that this is my fault, I need to pay up now, that he HAD insurance, but was trying to save me from having my rates go up, he was doing me a favor making me pay for it myself, blah blah etc. Now at the time of the accident he DIDN'T have insurance and kept asking me not to report it, because he didnt want to risk losing his licence for a year for driving without it. Nor did he let my bodyshop guy look at it, who would have done the work for me for the cost of any parts, IF it even needed parts. 

I'm angry with this guy now for a couple reasons... and while I am aware that I am an *******... am I BEING the ******* in this situation? I had insurance, I was ready to file, he claimed (or actually didnt) not to have any, then got the first, more expensive work done he could, because he was unwilling to wait 24 hours to have my guy look at the vehicle... and he wants me to pay out of pocket. 

Am I crazy for being angry?


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## Cryozombie (Mar 7, 2009)

And I guess I didnt shorten that any.  LOL.


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## StrongFighter (Mar 7, 2009)

Talk to your lawyer and have the lawyer find a understanding judge. 

Driving without insurance is very illegal and akin to drunk driving.

Do not give into his demands. Hold off and talk to your lawyer first.


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## stickarts (Mar 7, 2009)

I understand your frustration. I think you have been more than fair. I think I would discuss it at this point with an attorney to decide the best route to take.
I have learned the hard way it's better to report incidents like this and keep everything documented and clear. You usually end up with a lot of aggravation when you don't. You act with good intentions but you can get burned very easily when it all goes unreported.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 7, 2009)

You have a witness in your instructors wife who can confirm the date.
His insurance if he has any, will show an active date.

Tell him to wait until you have what is fair, or do it in small claims court, his call.


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## chrispillertkd (Mar 7, 2009)

You've been more than fair. Now be more than fair one more time. Remind him calmly that he was parked in a no parking zone and that your instructor's wife was present when he was saying he had no insurance. Tell him you've already agreed to pay what your deductible would be and that is more than reasonable.

If he persists in hounding you privately tell him you'll be letting your lawyer and/or insurance company handle things from your side and that you will need his insurance company's contact information for them. If he has any sense what so ever that should be an end to things.

I have had the misfortune of trying to deal with someone without insurance after she hit my parked car while she was driving. It's misery trying to deal with this kind of thing. Keep your cool and remember to be courteous both because of the potential for personal conflict and the fact that this gentleman trains at the same school as you. Out of respect for your instructor you should do as much as possible to maintain harmony in the school (even if he does not!).

Pax,

Chris


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## MBuzzy (Mar 7, 2009)

yep - get a lawyer!  A good one and an understanding one.  If he ends up going to an insurance company, it can be insurance fraud.  It goes both ways....


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## StrongFighter (Mar 7, 2009)

I take it you are young and inexperienced. 

The guy without any insurance should have known better. 

He is clearly taking advantage of the situation for financial gain. Talk to your attorney and keep your tax refund.


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## Carol (Mar 7, 2009)

Might want to remind him that driving uninsured in Illinois is a criminal offense and offer to have the cops straighten it all out.  IIRC the accident reports in Illinois ask specificallhy if the car was parked in a no-parking zone as well.


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## arnisador (Mar 7, 2009)

Your position sounds fairly reasonable, although making him wait is unfortunate. Your car was moving so it was ultimatley your responsibility to know where it was going. Youw ant to keep peace at your school, including as your teacher's wife is now involved. Since you didn't have him get an estimate from a third-party garage up front I'd say seeing if you can describe the situation to a mechanic to get a ballpark estimate to check his numbers is a good idea. Otehrwise, pay a negotiated amount and GET A RECEIPT saying the debt is PAID IN FULL.

I find it hard to believe that calling a lawyer or the police would be helpful, unless a very large sum of money is at issue here. If your ins. co. gets involved your rates will likely jump and you'll lose financially in the long run.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 7, 2009)

arnisador said:


> Your position sounds fairly reasonable, although making him wait is unfortunate.


 
I agree, if it were me, I'd say it really sucks having to wait. On that note I feel for him, but at the same time, I don't have the cash he wants out of pocket... thats why I carry Insurance.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 7, 2009)

You know its kinda funny, too, because this happened to me when I first started training at our dojo... my second or thrid week one of the blackbelts backed into my car... I checked the damage, said "you know what, it's fine, I'll take care of this" and I paid to have it fixed myself.

I'm proof that Karma is nonexistant.


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## shesulsa (Mar 7, 2009)

First of all, you're not crazy for being angry, but it's not serving you any so ... try to let it go.

First of all, apologize for the inconvenience to your teacher's wife and ask her if she would be willing to submit an affidavit regarding her experience in the incident and the date if necessary. Hopefully she'll say yes.


Regardless, I suggest telling this guy that you two had an agreement you expect him to honor it just as you are doing. If he refuses, then tell him you are committed to paying him the amount of your deductible and no more because it was HIS request you not go through insurance. If he refuses again, then tell him to submit the claim to HIS insurance company and tell him your insurance company will be contacting him.

Then DO contact your insurance company and explain the situation. Tell them if he doesn't want to submit a claim that you're willing to honor your original agreement with him - it will be on record. They will contact him and if he doesn't want to file a claim they will just let the matter drop.

When you pay him, write a letter that this is the money you agreed to pay for your share in repairing his car and that this matter is PAID IN FULL. Mail it certified, keep the card.


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## jks9199 (Mar 7, 2009)

Gotta start with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer, and if you want legal advice, talk to an attorney.

Now... the things as I cop I'd be looking at are whether or not he was on private property when he was parked.  It sounds like he was.  Second question: what sort of "no parking?"  Fire zone or some other "official" zone, or property owner convenience?  

It's not hit and run; you notified him and tried to work with him.  He wasn't driving, so laws requiring insurance may not be in play.  (Depends on exactly what they say.)  So, you're clearly into civil law zone.

My guess is that a civil court would hold you partly at fault, and him partly at fault.  The fact that he wasn't insured and was parked improperly weighs against him.   As does a 1 AM phone call about it.  The fact that you notified him, and were willing to accept responsibility works for  you.  Were it to go to trial (probably small claims)... my unofficial "People's Court" guess is that you'd be responsible for either your deductible, or maybe an amount based on some reasonable repair estimates (who says his uncle really only fixed that damage -- or really charged him what he's claiming, my cynical cop mind asks), maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of the cost.


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## Thesemindz (Mar 7, 2009)

Personally, I probably wouldn't pay this guy a penny. 

You made several efforts to make this right. He balked repeatedly. Then he does an end around on you and wants you to pay for it. 

Tough luck. He should have had insurance. He should have had your guy look at the car. Now he's stuck. I hope he's happy with his new bumper.

If he's a friend, and you don't want to lose the relationship, you might consider giving him money as a favor. But as I see it, he's just **** outta luck.


-Rob


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## Cryozombie (Mar 7, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Now... the things as I cop I'd be looking at are whether or not he was on private property when he was parked.


 
Yes, it was.



jks9199 said:


> Second question: what sort of "no parking?" Fire zone or some other "official" zone, or property owner convenience?


 
I'd call it property owner convienience. If the property owner had seen it, he would have been towed, but I don't think he could be ticketed for parking there. We are all aware that threats of towing have been made, he chose to ignore it because he was late and there were a lot of cars that night.



jks9199 said:


> He wasn't driving, so laws requiring insurance may not be in play. (Depends on exactly what they say.) So, you're clearly into civil law zone.


 
I believe the cop that was training with us that night warned him he could be busted for it, but it was sorta an unoffical "dude, you shouldnt be doing that" kind of thing, you could lose your licence... thats when he asked me to wait and file it a day later after he reinstated his insurance, which I said no to...

To be honest with you all, IMO, while what he wants is far more than It would have cost ME to get the work done, at the same time the amount he is asking isn't unreasonable; The issue I have is that its more "out of pocket expense" than I can bear without putting an undue hardship on myself, when I had insurance to cover the issue, and he balked at using it... and now hes trying to make it sound as if forcing me to pay out of pocket RIGHT NOW so he can get married was a nicety on his part to "save my insurance rates". Thats the part that burns my tushie... especially since I told him he would be paid when my tax refund comes.


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## myusername (Mar 7, 2009)

I'd check that all  of the witnesses that you have are prepared to make statements that this git had no insurance at the time. If they are I'd tell him to f**** off for being such a **** about it all and remind him that if he'd played civil he would have got the money in the end.

If your witnesses are not prepared to get involved I'd tell him that you are prepared to argue and fight this to the very end appealing any decision that is not in your favour and remind him that the previous agreement that you guys had arranged in good faith would have resulted in him getting his money with much less effort.

Either way when it is all sorted for better or worse I would inform him that you might not feel so inclined to report the next "accident." I'd never advocate that you actually damage the man's car but he deserves to feel a little anxious.

You have done everything to make this smooth for the man and all he has done to repay you is to try and swindle you for all that he can get. Punish him for his greed.


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## Dao (Mar 8, 2009)

I don't think he can do much other than take you to small claims court.  Too bad you didn't have any witnesses.  Best thing to do is have witnesses when things like that happens.  It was on private property so the police can't do much.  I don't think he could win the case.   If you have proof when the accident occur, then you can request when he had insurance.  Ask him in small claims court to prove he had insurance on the day of the accident.  If he didn't have insurance it's going to hard to prove he did and then he'll be in trouble.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

You're in the wrong.  Pay the bill.

It does not matter that he was in a 'No Parking' zone.  You hit his car.

State law may require that he have insurance on his car, but he was not driving, so he was violating no law at that moment that I'm aware of.  Granted, he broke the law driving there and again when he left, but that's nothing to do with the fender-bender.

In a property damage accident, the person who did it, did it.  The other facts are irrelevant.  He is under no obligation to have his car fixed where you want it fixed, or to have it fixed to your standards of excellence.  He is entitled to be 'made whole' meaning the car gets fixed to his standards.  It is his property, whether he was legally insured or not.

I would file a claim on my insurance or pay the bill.  You did the damage, not him.  You did the right thing by notifying him.  Now man up and pay the bill.

My 2 cents...


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## shesulsa (Mar 8, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> You're in the wrong.  Pay the bill.
> 
> It does not matter that he was in a 'No Parking' zone.  You hit his car.
> 
> ...



But Cryo tried to work with the man to put things right and how the man is trying to defraud Cryo.  I consider that a crime because it's intentional. Cryo had an *accident.*

I suppose if you have a crapload of money to just fly at the whim of everyone you jostle wrongly that's fine - throw your money at it by all means.  But I think this involves standing up for what's right on ALL sides of the soccer ball.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

Pay for an attorney?

Lack of insurance equal to drunk driving?

Pay up the other guy no matter what the bill may have been padded/run up to?

I don't know what the laws are in your state, but I wouldn't suggest any of em where I live...

Here a PDO (property damage only) accident on private property, below the mandatory reporting threshold and both parties exchanged info on their own...its a civil matter.  

Id tell the guy he was getting paid when I had the money or he could take some small payments now and the rest when I got the money. If he didn't like it he could take me to small claims court. With an LE witness to his lack of insurance...I don't see that happening. The cost of an attorney on something like this is foolish IMO. 

Another option is to call YOUR insurance company and explain the situation.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> But Cryo tried to work with the man to put things right and how the man is trying to defraud Cryo.  I consider that a crime because it's intentional. Cryo had an *accident.*



How is he trying to defraud Cryo?  He said he wants 2/3 of the money he paid to have his car fixed, right?  Did I read that wrong?



> I suppose if you have a crapload of money to just fly at the whim of everyone you jostle wrongly that's fine - throw your money at it by all means.  But I think this involves standing up for what's right on ALL sides of the soccer ball.



I don't have a crapload of money, not by a longshot.  I'd have called my insurance company and notified them immediately, and had him deal with them.  Then it would not be my problem.  Since he didn't, he's going to lose any court confrontation - he is at fault and admits it.  Judge will say "Pay da man!"


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

Absolutely Cryo will have to pay..nobody has said otherwise. But if he believes that hes being "taken" then the other guy will have to show his proof in court.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Absolutely Cryo will have to pay..nobody has said otherwise. But if he believes that hes being "taken" then the other guy will have to show his proof in court.



Nope.  The only fact the judge will be interested in is who is at fault.  Cyro is and admits it.  That's all.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? I hope he backs into my car soon. LOL! 

I dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? Dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.


 
That's what I said.  The judge will most likely look at the receipt.  But it would have to be outrageous on the face of it before a judge would ignore it and award a different amount.  Without an estimate, Cyro has nothing to introduce to show that the amount is out of whack.  He's going to lose.

But hey - let's wait and see, eh?  I don't mind, it's not my ***.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

If the other dude is that hard up for cash he probably couldnt afford the filing fee anyway.


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## Dao (Mar 8, 2009)

Bill Mattocks you are right he is at fault.  And he should have reported the insurance company.  But I wouldn't pay without getting other estimates.  The job could have been done cheaper for same quality.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

Dao said:


> But I wouldn't pay without getting other estimates.



A) Too late now, the work has been done.
B) The injured party is not required to comply with the first party's demands in a private dispute of this nature.



> The job could have been done cheaper for same quality.



Maybe.  No way to prove it now.

Look at it this way - let's say someone drove over your foot.  He wants you to see several doctors, get the cheapest price, and then he'll pay to have your foot fixed at the cheapest one.  Now how reasonable does it sound?


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## shesulsa (Mar 8, 2009)

Cryo - I would still give him one more chance to make it right. But if he doesn't, then get his insurance information and report the incident to your insurance company.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Gotta start with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer, and if you want legal advice, talk to an attorney.
> 
> Now... the things as I cop I'd be looking at are whether or not he was on private property when he was parked.  It sounds like he was.  Second question: what sort of "no parking?"  Fire zone or some other "official" zone, or property owner convenience?
> 
> ...



This advice is sound IMO.....Id be curious to see what this uncle would present as proof of cost too.

On a separate issue, the common "ask your attorney" reply you get on almost all internet discussion forums is a bit too simple. You have to figure out the cost of an attorney vs. what you are going to be "out" if you loose a civil case. In this case it would just be throwing your money away IMO. If the guy was IN the car and suing you for personal injury...THATS a whole other ball game. If you could face a criminal charge thats a whole other matter too.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

That is unless your relative or friend is an attorney, then by all means...lucky you.


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## MJS (Mar 8, 2009)

Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police!  There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.

The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property.  Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept.  My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

MJS said:


> Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police!  There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.
> 
> The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property.  Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept.  My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.



Good advice.  Even if a field interview is made, or even just a record in the blotter of the call being made.


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## jks9199 (Mar 8, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Not in any case I have ever seen....If the guy is asking for $20,000 in repairs on a 1977 Vega Cryo just has to pay up? I hope he backs into my car soon. LOL!
> 
> I dont think so. The judge will assess the claim and make judgment. He may very well have to pay the claim, but it isnt that cut and dry.


Under civil law --  the costs can be split based on each party's liability.  Cryo will likely have to pay some of it.   (And has never denied his responsibility to do so!) But the facts in evidence here suggest that the car's owner contributed to the situation in three ways; he parked improperly, he failed to have insurance, and he got the car fixed on his own without consulting Cryo.  The car owner may find himself having to eat the difference between either Cryo's deductable or any difference (if any) between what his uncle charged (still skeptical on that...) and a reasonable rate from another shop.


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## jks9199 (Mar 8, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> This advice is sound IMO.....Id be curious to see what this uncle would present as proof of cost too.
> 
> On a separate issue, the common "ask your attorney" reply you get on almost all internet discussion forums is a bit too simple. You have to figure out the cost of an attorney vs. what you are going to be "out" if you loose a civil case. In this case it would just be throwing your money away IMO. If the guy was IN the car and suing you for personal injury...THATS a whole other ball game. If you could face a criminal charge thats a whole other matter too.



The main reason for the "consult an attorney" here is to make it clear that I'm NOT practicing law, and am not qualified to do so.  I'm just offering my best guess, based on my own training and experience.

If your liberty is at stake -- my advice is ALWAYS to get the best possible attorney you can, even if you have to go into debt to do so.   (Note that the best attorney is not necessarily the most expensive!  But it's seldom the cheapest.)


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## jks9199 (Mar 8, 2009)

MJS said:


> Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police!  There could be a minor scratch on the surface, but major damage underneath that we cant see.
> 
> The fact that it happened on private property will effect whether or not police action can be taken, due to the fact that it happened on private property.  Of course, this will vary from state to state, dept to dept.  My PD goes to private prop. accidents, but its rare that action other than documentation, is taken.


Not really...

Private property, no injuries... my agency may send a cop, if you really insist.  And the cop'll get there, help you exchange info, and leave.   How you resolve it is between you and the insurance companies.  Another agency in my area won't even send a cop, unless you're fighting or there's some other reason.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> The main reason for the "consult an attorney" here is to make it clear that I'm NOT practicing law, and am not qualified to do so.  I'm just offering my best guess, based on my own training and experience.
> 
> If your liberty is at stake -- my advice is ALWAYS to get the best possible attorney you can, even if you have to go into debt to do so.   (Note that the best attorney is not necessarily the most expensive!  But it's seldom the cheapest.)



Absolutely JKS..I was referring more to some of the earlier "get an attorney" comments than to yours though. I see what you mean.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Under civil law --  the costs can be split based on each party's liability.



Yes.



> Cryo will likely have to pay some of it.   (And has never denied his responsibility to do so!)



I think Cryo will have to pay all of it.



> But the facts in evidence here suggest that the car's owner contributed to the situation in three ways; he parked improperly, he failed to have insurance, and he got the car fixed on his own without consulting Cryo.



Parking improperly contributed to the accident how?  The car leapt out and hit Cryo's?  His failure to have insurance contributed to the accident how?

As to his getting the car fixed on his own - in the states I am familiar with, the victim is not required to get estimates, not required to get the vehicle repaired where the insurance company (or in this case, Cryo) wants him to, and does not even have to get an appraisal before getting the vehicle repaired.

If Cryo thinks he has a tort for inflated claims, he can pursue it.  He may also raise it with the judge in a civil small-claims court, and the judge may consider the cost - but it will be difficult to prove overcharging without an appraisal, which now cannot be done.

In addition, the victim, as I undersand it, isn't even asking for 100% of the amount paid to repair the damage, is he?



> The car owner may find himself having to eat the difference between either Cryo's deductable or any difference (if any) between what his uncle charged (still skeptical on that...) and a reasonable rate from another shop.



Nope.  He sues, he wins.  But let's see how this plays out.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

Of course if the guy sues Cryo hes gonna win...Cryo hit his car....its the issue of damages everybody here is talking about. If the the judge finds Cryo has to pay in full hes no worse off..if its shown that the bill was jacked up Cryo pays a more fair ammount. 

Personally, Id call my insurance co. and tell them. Unless a possible increase in rate would add up to more than what I would pay out of pocket. Same thing as the attorney issue. Do the math....


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## arnisador (Mar 8, 2009)

MJS said:


> Lesson to learn here....any time you're involved in an MVA, no matter how minor it may be, call the police!



Well...by and large, yes, but realistically a minor accident may be better kept off your insurance record if both parties are amenable to that.

Personally, I always rpefer having a police record but wouldn't always insist on it.


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## Archangel M (Mar 8, 2009)

arnisador said:


> Well...by and large, yes, but realistically a minor accident may be better kept off your insurance record if both parties are amenable to that.
> 
> Personally, I always rpefer having a police record but wouldn't always insist on it.



True.


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## shesulsa (Mar 9, 2009)

Well given that he lives in ILLINOIS ... he will likely have to pay for the toilet paper the dude wipes his butt on and his policy renewal fee along with pain and suffering ... because he was trying to do the nice thing.

Cryo, you've been crapped on enough. Stop being the nice guy.  Start reporting people like this. You can't afford to be the nice guy anymore - it always turns around on you.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice guys...

*I* wanted to report the accident to my insurance right away, he asked me not to. Understand that our school isnt a big commercial school where everyone is just there, pays their dues and trains... we are a private not-for-profit so to speak school, where to get in you have to know someone, be vouched for, get to know everyone, and be voted in Unanimously. This guy isn't new, and I considered him a FRIEND. Ive had him in my home and shared meals with him. I figured I could trust him, and I was doing the right thing by him, not risking his driving privileges, and he was going to let my guy take care of it. But apparently when I wouldnt have my guy do it at 1am that same night, he got all jumpy and had his uncle do it.  I'm not against paying him, up to the amount of my deductable, but I cannot materialize the cash out of thin air, and he has been on the attack, and keeps changing his story.

And Bill, FWIW, IF my insurance covered it, which, again is what I carry insurance for, yes, he would have been required to get multiple quotes, and any repair he got would be paid at the rate the insurance felt appropriate. If he wanted to do somthing else, he would have to sue, and here it is_ unlikley_ he would win, based on everything the attorneys all told me after I was hit on my motorcycle...


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## Brian King (Mar 9, 2009)

Often even a ten thousand dollar friendship lesson is cheap. No matter the treasure cost of the accident, the knowledge of true or convenient friendship is a valuable one for all involved. 

How much is he charging did I miss it in the thread somewhere? What kind of car has he and is it his baby or just transportation?
Regards
Brian King


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 9, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> And Bill, FWIW, IF my insurance covered it, which, again is what I carry insurance for, yes, he would have been required to get multiple quotes, and any repair he got would be paid at the rate the insurance felt appropriate. If he wanted to do somthing else, he would have to sue, and here it is_ unlikley_ he would win, based on everything the attorneys all told me after I was hit on my motorcycle...



Yes, that's all true.  But it isn't the law, unless Illinois is different.  You see, when your insurance company tells him he has to get multiple quotes and so on, they have the muscle to make him do it - they refuse to pay unless he follows their rules, and if he sues them, hey, no biggie - that's what they have staff lawyers for.

The problem is that YOU don't have the same clout as insurance companies.

Consider health insurance.  I get insurance paperwork all the time for my wife's doctor visits.  She has this test or that treatment, and the bill is $800.  The insurance company says, "Nah, we'll pay you $120 and you'll like it."  And the doctor says fine, the final bill is $120, and that's what the insurance pays - we end up owing nothing.

But if we had no insurance and WE tried telling the doctor's office that we'll pay $120 on an $800 doctor's bill, how far do you think we'd get?  It's like that.

It ain't fair and it aint' right, but in this case, it is what it is.  Sorry, really!
:asian:


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## MJS (Mar 9, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Not really...
> 
> Private property, no injuries... my agency may send a cop, if you really insist. And the cop'll get there, help you exchange info, and leave. How you resolve it is between you and the insurance companies. Another agency in my area won't even send a cop, unless you're fighting or there's some other reason.


 
Where I work, we send a cop even for private property accidents.  As you said, its nothing more than some documentation, and thats about it.  Since I've been working where I am, I have yet to see any other enforcement action taken on a private accident.

Of course, as I said, this will vary from place to place.


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## Steve (Mar 9, 2009)

If he didn't report it, didn't have insurance and is being a jerk, I would give him what is fair (and only that) and invite him to take YOU to small claims if he feels he has a case.


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## Steve (Mar 10, 2009)

So, how did this work out?


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