# Uniform Standard



## Wilde (May 15, 2016)

What is your school's uniform standard? We wear a white V-neck with black trim dobok with black pants.


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## Kenposcholar (May 15, 2016)

Our school uniform in Springfield, Missouri is a black Gi jacket with our black school shirts underneath. Black, traditional draw string pants that go down to the ankles. The gi in our school goes beyond the waist by a couple inches but not down to the thighs. Although it is an American Kenpo school, we do not don the AKKA patch, American flag, or even a school patch. All of our uniforms are solid black without logos. Our black belts do not have names or titles on them either and only ever have the stripes placed on them. 

Example of a standard uniform: 14 oz. Heavy Weight Ironman Uniform
My personal uniform of choice: KONGO 金剛 (SAB) Heavyweight Black [SAB] - $270.00 : TOKAIDO, The Worldwide Standard


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## Buka (May 15, 2016)

Under belts wear black gis. Black belts wear whatever they want.


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## chrispillertkd (May 15, 2016)

We use official ITF doboks.

Pax,

Chris


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## Dirty Dog (May 16, 2016)

New students wear comfortable workout clothing until they earn their white belt.
Geup ranks wear white V-neck dobaks, although we have had the occasional transfer with a wrap-type Gi, and we don't get all excited about it.
At chodanbo, a white dobak with a black collar.
Dan ranks wear whatever they want. Black pants are popular, mostly with a white V-neck dobak with a black collar. I mostly wear black pants and a diamond pattern top, usually white, but sometimes red or black.


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## SahBumNimRush (May 16, 2016)

We where traditional Moo Duk Kwan uniforms (White, geups trimmed or untrimmed tops, black belts trimmed tops).  The Moo Duk Kwan, as I understand it, were the first Kwan to use a trimmed uniform.  It is a nod to the Hwa Rang warriors, as they wore trimmed uniforms to signify their status.  Or at least that is what I have been told.


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## TrueJim (May 16, 2016)

*Short answer: *solid white V-necks, with trimmed-collar for dan ranks, school logo on the back.

Long answer:

If you're just "trying out" a few classes to see if you like taekwondo, you can just wear regular workout clothes...but if our school thinks you're more likely going to be sticking around (for example, because you already have family taking classes in the school) they usually just give you a free white V-neck uniform on the first day anyway.
During the first few days of class: solid white V-neck, school logo on the back, with _no belt at all_. (You have to earn your white belt at our school, within a few days of practicing, by knowing some really basic stuff: how to bow, salute the flag, punch, get into horse-riding stance, stand at attention, etc.)
The geup uniform has two patches: Korean flag on one shoulder, USA flag on the other.
Then once you have your white belt, you start learning poomsae (3 Kibon then the Taegeuk) and other stuff...and continue to wear a white V-neck with the appropriate geup belt colors.
At bo-dan, it's still a solid white V-neck uniform with a red-black belt (black on top)
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Finally at 1st dan, you get to wear a V-neck with black-trimmed collar. 
While at 1st dan rank you start to learn Palgwae forms and more complex kicking combinations: each new form you pass allows you to sew a star onto onto the back of your belt (so our belts are embroidered with school name, student name, dan rank of course, then same-color stars sewn onto the back to denote how much progress you're making on learning all the stuff 1st dans are supposed to learn).
Members of *special teams* are allowed to wear their team uniforms to class if they'd rather (and many do):

Poomsae Team: solid *blue* V-necks (the Poomsae Team attends regular classes, plus a mandatory 4 additional hours of special class each week)
Demo Team: *black* V-necks with yellow trim (the Demo Team attends regular classes, plus a mandatory 1.5-hour additional class each week, plus special 3-4 hour practices in the weeks leading up to a performance)
Leadership Team:* red-and-black* V-neck uniforms (the Leadership Team attends regular classes, plus a mandatory 1-hour additional class each week, plus is required to assist at 2 regular classes per week)
Sparring Team: normal uniform, but the sparring team is on hiatus right now (our coach relocated)

Bottom line: it tends to be a fairly _colorful_ class, but the classes tend to be quite large, so the combination of uniform types and belt colors makes it easier to know who should be working on what, and who you can ask to help with what.

QUESTION: What's the origin of the diamond-patterned tops? I often see those in photos, and have wondered if there's a story behind their origin. Why a _diamond_ pattern?


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## Dirty Dog (May 16, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> QUESTION: What's the origin of the diamond-patterned tops? I often see those in photos, and have wondered if there's a story behind their origin. Why a _diamond_ pattern?



Good question. I don't know, but I suspect it was like any other uniform change; someone thought it looked cool (I agree...).
Pure speculation, rumor mongering, and Urban Myth spouting:

The word "keumgang" carries connotations of indestructibility, immovability, and 'hardness', is the name of a mountain which has spiritual significance to Koreans, and was the name (or part of the name) of a legendary warrior. Since one of the translations of keumgang is "diamond" perhaps this was part of the reason it was chosen.


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## dancingalone (May 16, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> QUESTION: What's the origin of the diamond-patterned tops? I often see those in photos, and have wondered if there's a story behind their origin. Why a _diamond_ pattern?



They are most associated with the Jidokwan, which has its origins when Chun Sang Sup returned to Korea and began teaching inside of an existing judo school, the Chosun Yun Moo Kwan.  The skirt of a judo top has a similar diamond cross stich pattern.  The Jidokwan adopted that stich pattern throughout the entire dobak top as a nod towards their history.

You frequently see hapkido practitioners also wear a diamond uniform top.  Perhaps the reason there is similar to the Jidokwan story.


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## MI_martialist (May 16, 2016)

So, underwear only?  Skirts?  Shorts?



Buka said:


> Under belts wear black gis. Black belts wear whatever they want.


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## Buka (May 16, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> So, underwear only?  Skirts?  Shorts?



Bwahaha! But, you know, if they could fight, I'd probably let them. 

More like this, though. We were never big on fashion.


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## Azulx (May 19, 2016)

white side tie gi tops and white pants for colored belts, black gis for black belts. I am sure I could wear my white gi if I wanted to when I become a black belt.


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## TrueJim (May 20, 2016)

But where can I find one of these with a U.S. flag? I would so rule in this.


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## MI_martialist (May 20, 2016)

Azulx said:


> white side tie gi tops and white pants for colored belts, black gis for black belts. I am sure I could wear my white gi if I wanted to when I become a black belt.



Why change to a black gi??


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## Wilde (May 20, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> New students wear comfortable workout clothing until they earn their white belt.
> Geup ranks wear white V-neck dobaks, although we have had the occasional transfer with a wrap-type Gi, and we don't get all excited about it.
> At chodanbo, a white dobak with a black collar.
> Dan ranks wear whatever they want. Black pants are popular, mostly with a white V-neck dobak with a black collar. I mostly wear black pants and a diamond pattern top, usually white, but sometimes red or black.


One thing that drives me crazy these days is that there is no universal uniform standard for black belts, the freedom is nice, but the only standard I've seen is the black trim dobok.


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## MI_martialist (May 20, 2016)

Wilde said:


> One thing that drives me crazy these days is that there is no universal uniform standard for black belts, the freedom is nice, but the only standard I've seen is the black trim dobok.



Our standard is simple...everyone wears white, clean, pressed, no tags...this is the standard and what is done starting with the day the student earns the right to wear the keikogi.  In fact, the more senior one is, the less give or tolerance is accepted with the keikogi.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 20, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Our standard is simple...everyone wears white, clean, pressed, no tags...this is the standard and what is done starting with the day the student earns the right to wear the keikogi.  In fact, the more senior one is, the less give or tolerance is accepted with the keikogi.


This is closer to our approach. In the mainline schools, they use white gi (usually with association patch and AI and KI patches). In Shojin-ryu, we use black gi (someday we'll add patches). Hakama are encouraged starting at orange belt (second earned rank) and must be worn on specific occasions (as a training tool) starting at brown (third earned rank).

I'm relaxed about folks prior to yellow (first earned belt). Most wear street clothes for a month or two, and I'll allow white gi up to that first belt.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 20, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Why change to a black gi??


The blood doesn't show.


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## Azulx (May 20, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Why change to a black gi??



I guess it's a perk to achieving a black belt.


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## TrueJim (May 20, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Why change to a black gi??



I like tradition as much as the next person, but if you think about it objectively: wearing solid pure _white_ as a workout outfit -- especially a workout where you might be on the floor a lot -- isn't the most practical choice. That's not as bad as wearing white sneakers to mow the lawn, but it's close.  Still, at our school the geup ranks wear white unless they're on a special team.


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## Dirty Dog (May 21, 2016)

Wilde said:


> One thing that drives me crazy these days is that there is no universal uniform standard for black belts, the freedom is nice, but the only standard I've seen is the black trim dobok.



These days? There never HAS been a "universal standard" for anything in the MA.


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## TrueJim (May 21, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> There never HAS been a "universal standard" for anything in the MA.



Decrying that the standards of the current generation are less rigorous than prior generations. I think that's a universal standard.


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## MI_martialist (May 21, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> I like tradition as much as the next person, but if you think about it objectively: wearing solid pure _white_ as a workout outfit -- especially a workout where you might be on the floor a lot -- isn't the most practical choice. That's not as bad as wearing white sneakers to mow the lawn, but it's close.  Still, at our school the geup ranks wear white unless they're on a special team.



If I think about it objectively, I need to understand why a white gi was / has been worn.  It is only after understanding this can it be decided what one will do.  Also, if we call it simply tradition, why still bow?  Why still use "traditional" weapons?  Why train in a dojo (dojang)?

What criteria are used to decide if a "tradition" is still useful?


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## MI_martialist (May 21, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> These days? There never HAS been a "universal standard" for anything in the MA.



Never been a standard for anything?  Is there or has there been  curriculum?  What about kata?  There is not really a universal standard in "modern" / "traditional" martial arts, that I will agree with, but it all came from some standard somewhere.


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## TrueJim (May 21, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> What criteria are used to decide if a "tradition" is still useful?



Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but some of our female students complain about spotting on white uniforms.


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## Dirty Dog (May 21, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Never been a standard for anything?  Is there or has there been  curriculum?  What about kata?  There is not really a universal standard in "modern" / "traditional" martial arts, that I will agree with, but it all came from some standard somewhere.



Well no, it didn't. 
Firstly, even the dobak/gi is a relatively modern innovation. 
Secondly, belt rankings haven't even been around as long as the uniforms. 
Thirdly, there's never been ANY standard that has been "universal" for pretty much anything.


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## MI_martialist (May 22, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> Well no, it didn't.
> Firstly, even the dobak/gi is a relatively modern innovation.
> Secondly, belt rankings haven't even been around as long as the uniforms.
> Thirdly, there's never been ANY standard that has been "universal" for pretty much anything.



First of all, there has been a standard in martial circles since the beginning...breathing at the end of a battle is better than no longer breathing at the end of the battle...and everything has evolved from there.  The belts are absolutely a new invention, and the gi is used in a new way, but the gi has always been there...at least for the warrior class.  The difference is that training was never really done in the gi by itself.  It was not the unifrom.


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## EvanWinther (May 23, 2016)

I ser a lot of people saying "gi" in taekwondo we say dobak


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## Jaeimseu (May 23, 2016)

EvanWinther said:


> I ser a lot of people saying "gi" in taekwondo we say dobak


Technically, it should be dobok, though it often gets pronounced dobak.


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## Gnarlie (May 23, 2016)

EvanWinther said:


> I ser a lot of people saying "gi" in taekwondo we say dobak



도복 dobok - the vowels are both ㅗ 'o' as in 'taekwondo'. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## MI_martialist (May 23, 2016)

EvanWinther said:


> I ser a lot of people saying "gi" in taekwondo we say dobak



Because that's Korean.


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## TrueJim (May 23, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> First of all, there has been a standard in martial circles since the beginning...



When you say "the beginning" ...how far back are you going?






Minoan youths boxing, reconstruction of a Knossos fresco (1500 BCE).


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## Tony Dismukes (May 23, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> but the gi has always been there...at least for the warrior class. The difference is that training was never really done in the gi by itself. It was not the unifrom.


Not really. My understanding is that the gi was developed from something which was originally a Japanese undergarment - something like the cultural equivalent of training in sweats or shorts and a t-shirt. As such, it's specific to certain Japanese arts and their derivatives (like TKD or BJJ). You don't find it in Chinese or Filipino or Thai martial arts.


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## dancingalone (May 23, 2016)

I believe the karate dogi  came from judo.  Gichin Funakoshi supposedly demonstrated karate at the Kodokan in Japan wearing a judo uniform and he adopted its use in his karate afterwards.  Later as karate began to be codified as a art, the dogi became an accepted part the art, even in Okinawa.


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## MI_martialist (May 23, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Not really. My understanding is that the gi was developed from something which was originally a Japanese undergarment - something like the cultural equivalent of training in sweats or shorts and a t-shirt. As such, it's specific to certain Japanese arts and their derivatives (like TKD or BJJ). You don't find it in Chinese or Filipino or Thai martial arts.



The gi as it is, sure it has evolved, but the wearing of a gi-type garment was always there...but why white?  Is there a reason why they wore white undergarments into battle, which is what the gi really is, white undergarments.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 23, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Is there a reason why they wore white undergarments into battle, which is what the gi really is, white undergarments.


The same reason why they wore white undergarments when they weren't in battle? I'm not an expert on the history of clothing, but my first guess would be that people would be less likely to spend money on dying fabrics which weren't meant to be publicly visible. Anyway, I'm pretty certain that said undergarments weren't anything specific to battle conditions or the "warrior class."

Also, as I mentioned before, these garments were not found in other cultures and their martial arts, so they hardly qualify as "universal."


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## SahBumNimRush (May 23, 2016)

Don't quote me on this, as I cannot remember where I read it or who told me. 

I remember reading/hearing that Kano began using the white judogi as a formalized uniform in the early 1900's.  He chose white to symbolize simplicity, avoidance of ego, and the value of purity.  

I also remember being told that white is the color of death and mourning in many Asian cultures.  Not that I am suggesting that we as martial artists are prepared to die on the floor, but I think it was described to me as a nod to warrior culture, similar to the Samurai.  

Personally, I never put a lot of thought or stock in those explanations.  It's not a tradition that comes from *my* culture, and has little relevance to anything other than cultural anthropology.
I'm not belittling it, it's just not something that keeps me up at night.

However, it also makes sense that it was merely the simple and cheap medium of clothing.


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## SahBumNimRush (May 23, 2016)

I can see where different colors, stripes, patches etc, feed the ego, which in turns dampens humility.  i.e. I get to where the black uniform/black belt club "patch" etc, which does nothing to elevate training, but does indicate an elevation of status, which feeds the ego.  If we agree that ego has little place in the martial arts, than I can see how wearing different uniforms _could_ be problematic.

On the other hand, as a school owner, I can understand wanting an easy delineation between different *ranks* of students beyond just the belt, particularly in a large mixed rank/age setting. 

For me it doesn't matter, as we all were the same white dobok, the only difference is the trim to denote rank.


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## Dirty Dog (May 23, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> The gi as it is, sure it has evolved, but the wearing of a gi-type garment was always there...but why white?  Is there a reason why they wore white undergarments into battle, which is what the gi really is, white undergarments.



Because if you're ever in an accident (or a battle...) it's important to have clean underwear on. Didn't your mother ever tell you that?


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## IcemanSK (May 24, 2016)

Uniform standard can only be expected within an individual dojang or a small organization, or event (eg. at a belt test or at this tournament every competitor must wear X uniform). It's not reasonable to expect every Taekwondoin to wear the same dobok worldwide.


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## TrueJim (May 24, 2016)

IcemanSK said:


> It's not reasonable to expect every Taekwondoin to wear the same dobok worldwide...



Indeed, that dobok would become quite smelly very quickly.


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## IcemanSK (May 24, 2016)

TrueJim said:


> Indeed, that dobok would become quite smelly very quickly.


"Can't train today, sir. I'm not scheduled for the dobok until the 18th."


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## EvanWinther (May 25, 2016)

In my dojang we all get white doboks, and if a black belt would order a new dobok our sibbum would order us a white dobok whit black trim.


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## Chris Parker (Jul 7, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> If I think about it objectively, I need to understand why a white gi was / has been worn.



Okay… really, when it comes down to it, the answer is always purely down to the individual system and it's decision making process itself… the reasons for one art/system using a white gi (or dobok, or anything else) are entirely their own. So… look into the particular art itself. Other arts reasons aren't particularly relevant.



MI_martialist said:


> It is only after understanding this can it be decided what one will do.



Er… 



MI_martialist said:


> Also, if we call it simply tradition, why still bow?  Why still use "traditional" weapons?  Why train in a dojo (dojang)?



Again, the reasons are entirely centred around the system itself… one arts usage of "traditional weapons" will be different to anothers… even in regard to the reasoning for it. Some will keep bowing as an anachronistic holdover from a misunderstood cultural trapping, others will have much more intimate meaning attributed, and so on. As far as a dojo/dojang, well, look to the word… it's not a specific place, and has a similar meaning to asking why people work out in a "gym"… 



MI_martialist said:


> What criteria are used to decide if a "tradition" is still useful?



That's simply too vague a question, and covers too broad a range of both actual traditional methods and aspects and what I would generously call "pseudo-traditional" aspects… I mean… first you'd have to define the tradition itself… then you'd have to look at it in the context of the system you're thinking of… then look to that systems reasons for maintaining it… then decide if that consists of relevant criteria. Then you'd have to do it again with another tradition… another context (in the same, or a different art)… and so on… 



MI_martialist said:


> Never been a standard for anything?



Not a universal one, no.



MI_martialist said:


> Is there or has there been  curriculum?



Not a universal one, no.



MI_martialist said:


> What about kata?



Not a univer… you know, you probably know where I'm headed with this. Hell, even the simple format of what a kata is, and how it's applied within the art in question, isn't anything that could be described "universal" or even "standard".



MI_martialist said:


> There is not really a universal standard in "modern" / "traditional" martial arts, that I will agree with, but it all came from some standard somewhere.



No it didn't.



MI_martialist said:


> First of all, there has been a standard in martial circles since the beginning...breathing at the end of a battle is better than no longer breathing at the end of the battle...and everything has evolved from there.



That's a highly simplified (and, honestly, not overly accurate) assessment of the aim of a combative encounter from a personal standpoint… but it's not a "standard", and doesn't actually have much to do with martial arts, let alone there being a "universal standard" for them "since the beginning"… 



MI_martialist said:


> The belts are absolutely a new invention,



Really? Belts didn't exist until Kano created the first one? Oh, you mean the application of belts as an outwardly displayed indication of rank, yeah? In that case, I'd ask you to define "new"… as the vast majority of arts taught and trained today are all younger than the advent of belt ranking, which has been around for over 130 years now… with additions coming from about 80 years ago onwards… 



MI_martialist said:


> and the gi is used in a new way,



The gi… being about as old as the belt ranking system itself… is being used in a "new" way? New compared to what?



MI_martialist said:


> but the gi has always been there...at least for the warrior class.



Er… I know I've asked this before, but exactly where are you getting this "information"?

In other words, no. Not at all. If you're going to reference a "warrior class", based on your other posts, you're most likely (erroneously) referring to the bushi class of Japan (small note: this is in the TKD section… so not overtly relevant here…), in which case I might point out that, while there was a form of "under-kimono" worn, that's not the origin of the gi… it is more realistically based on a form of hard-wearing, simple work clothes called samue… which is far more a peasant/farmer dress than a "warrior" one. So you know, some koryu systems (particularly sword systems) train in such "uniforms" today… wearing hakama for public demonstrations and so on… others wear keikogi and hakama for both… I even know of some systems where it's not uncommon to see practitioners train in jeans and t-shirts, or even business suits… 



MI_martialist said:


> The difference is that training was never really done in the gi by itself.  It was not the unifrom.



Well, the gi itself didn't really exist then, so yeah, it was hardly a "uniform"… but, by the same token, the idea of a uniform in the first place is very much a modern thing as well… 



MI_martialist said:


> Because that's Korean.



Well, yeah… you may want to pay attention to the sub forum the topic is being posted in… 



MI_martialist said:


> The gi as it is, sure it has evolved, but the wearing of a gi-type garment was always there...but why white?



Er… no, the wearing of a "gi-type garment" was not "always there"… nor is white in any way part of the equation. Why are Judo-gi and most karate-gi white? Because that's what they chose… realistically, though, if we go back to their origins, you might find that they weren't actually "white"… more "unbleached"… which made them cheaper to make (and replace), which is ideal for something that can get roughed up and damaged in regular usage… as well as not having a dye (or bleach) weakening the fibres for the same reason… 



MI_martialist said:


> Is there a reason why they wore white undergarments into battle, which is what the gi really is, white undergarments.



First off, no, the gi is not "white undergarments"… secondly, there were any number of colours for the under-kimono (a shitagi, a form of light under-shirt, was most commonly white, but that wasn't universal at all, and depended, as today, on the fashions of the day itself). Thirdly, when heading into battle, a samurai (keeping with the idea that that's what you think you're talking about) would wear what's called a yoroi-hitatare under his armour… which was rarely white, more commonly unbleached, or coloured to match the armour itself (depending on the wealth of the samurai themselves). In fact, no historical, or historically based forms I've ever seen are white.


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## Metal (Sep 12, 2016)

I'd say that's a very American question. ;-)

In most other countries (besides Korea) people wouldn't even think about colored doboks for example.

And regarding the standards: There definitely is a Kukkiwon uniform standard, see World Taekwondo Headquarters

They even have rules where you may have prints/embroidery or patches on your uniform:
Rules for Promotion Test_2011_06_최종.pdf
(Pages 6 & 18/19)

So as a Kukkiwon practitioner I stick to that Kukkiwon standard. And I think any Kukkiwon Taekwondoin should.


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## Jedmus (Sep 12, 2016)

We wear the official ITF doboks while training in the Dojang


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## Balrog (Sep 22, 2016)

Wilde said:


> What is your school's uniform standard? We wear a white V-neck with black trim dobok with black pants.


We wear the traditional white crossover dobok.


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