# Why did you start? Why did you stop if so? And why did you come back?



## Mark1985 (May 17, 2016)

As someone whoi stopped doing martial arts and am know aiming for come back, why did you stop (if so) and why are you coming back? For me, I first started doing Karate because, well, I don't know why. Probably because at age 9 or 10 my parents thought it was a good idea. And I stopped because, well, I was a kid and probably couldn't be bothered any more. As for TKD, I started that at 12/13 because some friends were doing it. And I stopped at age 16 because of laziness mainly and I just wasn't feeling it anymore.

I am coming back because I felt I didn't give them a fair chance and it was always in the back of my mind, but I always found excuses (it costs too much, I work shifts, Game of Thrones is on, etc etc) but now I feel motivated to knuckle down and get back with something I've always wanted to do.

So I want to hear your stories!


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## Bill Mattocks (May 17, 2016)

I started training in Wado Ryu in Lakewood, Colorado in about 1988 or so.  Trained for about 3 or 4 months, then quit.  I can't really say why.  It was easier to quit than to keep going, my buddy quit and it wasn't fun without him in the dojo, I was busy, blah blah blah.  Just cop-outs and cheap excuses, really.

I started again in Isshin Ryu in 2008 in SE Michigan.  Been training ever since.  Now I can't stop.  I'll be 55 this year - sure wish I had kept at it when I was younger and faster, more flexible, and in better physical shape.  But you do what you can and keep on learning.


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## Dirty Dog (May 17, 2016)

My (now ex-) wife didn't like the amount of time I spent training. I quit to make her happy.
Didn't make her happy. We divorced. 
After I remarried, my wife joined the YMCA and noticed they had a program. She knew I'd spent more than a little time training before we'd met, and suggested we check it out. 
That was in 2009. She was promoted to 1st Dan on May 3rd.


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## Mark1985 (May 17, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> My (now ex-) wife didn't like the amount of time I spent training. I quit to make her happy.
> Didn't make her happy. We divorced.
> After I remarried, my wife joined the YMCA and noticed they had a program. She knew I'd spent more than a little time training before we'd met, and suggested we check it out.
> That was in 2009. She was promoted to 1st Dan on May 3rd.


 
Good stuff mate! Which martial art do you both practice?


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## Mark1985 (May 17, 2016)

[QUOTE="Bill Mattocks, post: 1761910, member: 19169 I can't really say why. It was easier to quit than to keep going, my buddy quit and it wasn't fun without him in the dojo, I was busy, blah blah blah. Just cop-outs and cheap excuses, really. [/QUOTE]


Oh I know that feeling!


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## Dirty Dog (May 17, 2016)

Mark1985 said:


> Good stuff mate! Which martial art do you both practice?



Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.


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## JowGaWolf (May 17, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> wife didn't like the amount of time I spent training.


This is a huge problem for women.  I'm not sure why, but it's a pain.  I think I would have the same problem had it not been for my wife trying Kung Fu.  I told her that she should give it an honest try for at least 2 months and if she still doesn't like it, then can quit, and I won't train as much.  That was about 2 years ago and now the only thing I hear about Kung Fu from her is how wants to get better at it.  She originally took it for exercise, but now that other classmates are commenting on her strength and about her stance being strong. She's starting to take a lot of pride in her own development beyond just exercise.


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## Kenpoguy123 (May 17, 2016)

I haven't quit exactly I haven't trained in a while because of work. Not being tired but my shits finish at 8 and training starts at 6 so yeah but I still train every day to keep it up


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## JR 137 (May 17, 2016)

I started in late '94 and left in late '01.  I left to go to graduate school, and planned on returning after graduation.  I was a graduate assistant, so I worked full time for the school in exchange for a tuition waiver and a little money.  My pay was just enough for rent, food and gas.  I couldn't afford to train, and genuinely didn't have the time between work, class, internship, and homework (including thesis).

After I graduated, I trained for a few months.  I was just feeling like I was where I left off when i got what seemed like a great job in NYC (2.5 hours away).

I came back to karate about 14 years later.  It's been a year and a half.  In that 14 years, I got married, got another masters degree, changed careers, had 2 perfect daughters, and moved back home.

I thought about karate every single day while I was away from it.   I can honestly say there was no way I could have consistently trained during that time.  I'd be making a weak commitment, and I just can't do anything half assed.  I missed it, but I certainly don't regret a single decision I made in the whole grand scheme of things.  One of my motivators in going back to grad school and changing careers was to be able to consistently train again.


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## ks - learning to fly (May 17, 2016)

I haven't quit and don't plan to - I started in 2009 partly because after getting
jumped in 2003, I decided I didn't want to be scared anymore.


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## Buka (May 17, 2016)

Started in 1970. And in the last few years, found a forum family. So far, so good, I guess.


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## Blindside (May 17, 2016)

Started when I was 12 because my best friend had started the class, trained for about 3 years and quit because of high school distractions.  Started again in college for a couple of years and quit because of the college distractions of classes and parties and women.  Started again after graduation and haven't quit since which makes it about 19 years now.


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## Tez3 (May 18, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is a huge problem for women.



Excuse me? A huge problem for 'women'? let's look at this shall we? Husband and wife both work, they have children, wife also looks after children, does the housework, the shopping, the laundry, runs the kids to their clubs/sports, the husband trains martial arts and that's it, you don't see this may cause problems? Perhaps the wife would like to pursue a hobby/sport or even... gasp... martial arts. I dare say some women have the odd idea that if married they'd like to see their husbands once in while and not sandwiched between work, martial arts and the pub.
The answer is balance, a balanced partnership each taking a share in everything so everyone gets to go to work, do the mundane things AND pursue an activity that makes them happy. 'Women' don't have a problem with it, they have a problem with a man who has a problem with it.


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## Mark1985 (May 18, 2016)

Wouldn't say it's a problem with women, but with certain people (male or female). My gf tolerates a LOT when it comes to my sporting endeavours. Ok, they mainly involve drinking beer and shouting at the TV, but...


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## oftheherd1 (May 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Excuse me? A huge problem for 'women'? let's look at this shall we? Husband and wife both work, they have children, wife also looks after children, does the housework, the shopping, the laundry, runs the kids to their clubs/sports, the husband trains martial arts and that's it, you don't see this may cause problems? Perhaps the wife would like to pursue a hobby/sport or even... gasp... martial arts. I dare say some women have the odd idea that if married they'd like to see their husbands once in while and not sandwiched between work, martial arts and the pub.
> The answer is balance, a balanced partnership each taking a share in everything so everyone gets to go to work, do the mundane things AND pursue an activity that makes them happy. 'Women' don't have a problem with it, they have a problem with a man who has a problem with it.



I think you are very correct.  But I do note that Hapkido is an art that seldom attracts women, and many of those at first attracted, drop out.  At least in the Hapkido I studied.  Any ideas why that might be so?


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## Tez3 (May 18, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> I think you are very correct.  But I do note that Hapkido is an art that seldom attracts women, and many of those at first attracted, drop out.  At least in the Hapkido I studied.  Any ideas why that might be so?



I was asked by quite a few women to run an all female class, the reasons are varied. Often the women feel out of place when they come in to a gym/school for the first time, there can be a very macho 'appearance' about martial arts, they can feel intimidated even if there are women training. Women often want to train with a friend, if they don't have one that wants to do martial arts they won't come by themselves. Tiredness is a big factor for many women especially with jobs and children, as much as you'd love to train you are too knackered. Childcare comes into it as well, if they are single parents or have a partner who is working shifts or doing something else it's hard to get a babysitter, often expensive.
Many martial arts emphasise fighting, sparring in their advertising, this can put women off even if they want to fight or spar because it's perceived they will be up against men who will batter them. Perceptions count for a lot. White Gi trousers, you might not think that could put women off but it does.
I don't know much about Hapkido to be honest so can't tell you if it puts women off as a style or not, sorry. Have a look at it from a woman's point of view and see what you think?


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## oftheherd1 (May 18, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I was asked by quite a few women to run an all female class, the reasons are varied. Often the women feel out of place when they come in to a gym/school for the first time, there can be a very macho 'appearance' about martial arts, they can feel intimidated even if there are women training. Women often want to train with a friend, if they don't have one that wants to do martial arts they won't come by themselves. Tiredness is a big factor for many women especially with jobs and children, as much as you'd love to train you are too knackered. Childcare comes into it as well, if they are single parents or have a partner who is working shifts or doing something else it's hard to get a babysitter, often expensive.
> Many martial arts emphasise fighting, sparring in their advertising, this can put women off even if they want to fight or spar because it's perceived they will be up against men who will batter them. Perceptions count for a lot. White Gi trousers, you might not think that could put women off but it does.
> I don't know much about Hapkido to be honest so can't tell you if it puts women off as a style or not, sorry. Have a look at it from a woman's point of view and see what you think?



All good points.  But still I see more women in other martial arts than I have in Hapkido in general, and especially the Hapkido I studied.  I always wondered if the violent counters we use were put-offs, or maybe the touching, since some techniques require contact in places women might be more uncomfortable with.  I don't know, but those are the only things I have ever been able to think of.


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## Tez3 (May 18, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> All good points.  But still I see more women in other martial arts than I have in Hapkido in general, and especially the Hapkido I studied.  I always wondered if the violent counters we use were put-offs, or maybe the touching, since some techniques require contact in places women might be more uncomfortable with.  I don't know, but those are the only things I have ever been able to think of.



Perhaps but I've found in MMA that men often don't like touching and the grappling part of it. I'm not sure about the violence because I know a lot of violent women lol. Perhaps it's the perception that they aren't welcome? Often a group of men can give the impression they don't want women joining them in a martial art. It's not done consciously but it can come over as being hostile to women.


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## oftheherd1 (May 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Perhaps but I've found in MMA that men often don't like touching and the grappling part of it. I'm not sure about the violence because I know a lot of violent women lol. Perhaps it's the perception that they aren't welcome? Often a group of men can give the impression they don't want women joining them in a martial art. It's not done consciously but it can come over as being hostile to women.



I saw men (including myself) who were sometimes a little hesitant while trying techniques; I never felt so uncoordinated in my life as when I began Hapkido.  As we often build following techniques on techniques we have already learned, that did go away for me, and for most I saw start.  So you seeing men that don't like touching and the grappling part surprises me.  Did you find in grappling arts that men dropped out because of that or did they adjust and accept?

Perceptions are important.  I wonder how many men give a negative perception not because they don't like women in MA so much as they don't know how to communicate they are going to have to touch, or the women are going to have to touch, in uncomfortable places?  That might be something the teacher should get involved in.

Violent women?  Tell me it isn't so.    I once had a student who grew up with several brothers.  She thought no more of fighting/sparring or using a violent technique than she did of breathing.


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## Tez3 (May 19, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> I saw men (including myself) who were sometimes a little hesitant while trying techniques; I never felt so uncoordinated in my life as when I began Hapkido. As we often build following techniques on techniques we have already learned, that did go away for me, and for most I saw start. So you seeing men that don't like touching and the grappling part surprises me. Did you find in grappling arts that men dropped out because of that or did they adjust and accept?



It's more than touching though, having someone's groin in your face is a bit odd male or female lol, being tangled together in a very intimate way with a stranger is disconcerting for any beginner, not only is it intimate it's with someone who is trying to hurt you! We've had men who just wanted to do stand up not grappling because they don't like that close contact, women don't seem to actual mind so much with other women and men they know.





oftheherd1 said:


> Perceptions are important. I wonder how many men give a negative perception not because they don't like women in MA so much as they don't know how to communicate they are going to have to touch, or the women are going to have to touch, in uncomfortable places? That might be something the teacher should get involved in.




Strangely enough it's not the touching that tends to put women off, it's the thought of punching and kicking people to hurt them. It's not even that they will be kicked or punched. I find the hardest thing is teaching women to be proactive in sparring, to actually go for strikes, for many it's the way they've been brought up ( unlike the female student you had with the brothers) they are told not to hit, not to hurt and years of this is quite hard to overcome. It's not 'ladylike' to fight or to even want to is also a common thought. It doesn't help that men are taught not to hit women and carry that onto martial arts.
A while back I went to a JKD class in the local leisure centre, the instructor knew I was coming and was quite happy with it but when I walked in the male students kindly told me the gym classes were in the other hall, I said I was here for martial arts they looked at me disbelieving, they weren't rude or nasty just incredulous which could have been uncomfortable for someone just starting. I didn't say I had any experience in martial arts as it was a completely new style for me, I just wore a plain t-shirt and black Gi bottoms, no belt. A couple of them were quite patronising, it wasn't a conscious thing I think they were trying to be genuinely helpful but it reminded me of garage mechanics when they talk to a woman about her car!  A couple of the much older men though when I was holding the pads tried to really hit it as hard as they could, not a problem for me so I just smiled at them, then when it was my turn I returned the favour.  If I had been new to martial arts and less confident it was have been hugely off putting. I'm used to working in all male environments so being the only female doesn't bother me. The ones that were most welcoming and helpful were the teenagers, I'm obviously much older than then but they didn't patronise or try to punch too hard, they explained things normally. I will say sparring with the old chaps was fun, we could spar how we wanted the instructor said, so I did, I enjoyed it not sure they did though. Sparring with the teenagers was also fun, they were faster ad had good techniques but they matched themselves to me which was kind and gracious. Sadly, I only went a couple of more times before the instructor gave up the class. I hope the teenagers found somewhere else to go, they were a credit to themselves.


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## oftheherd1 (May 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> It's more than touching though, having someone's groin in your face is a bit odd male or female lol, being tangled together in a very intimate way with a stranger is disconcerting for any beginner, not only is it intimate it's with someone who is trying to hurt you! We've had men who just wanted to do stand up not grappling because they don't like that close contact, women don't seem to actual mind so much with other women and men they know.
> 
> Strangely enough it's not the touching that tends to put women off, it's the thought of punching and kicking people to hurt them. It's not even that they will be kicked or punched. I find the hardest thing is teaching women to be proactive in sparring, to actually go for strikes, for many it's the way they've been brought up ( unlike the female student you had with the brothers) they are told not to hit, not to hurt and years of this is quite hard to overcome. It's not 'ladylike' to fight or to even want to is also a common thought. It doesn't help that men are taught not to hit women and carry that onto martial arts.



Thanks, that all makes sense.



Tez3 said:


> ...  A while back I went to a JKD class in the local leisure centre, the instructor knew I was coming and was quite happy with it but when I walked in the male students kindly told me the gym classes were in the other hall, I said I was here for martial arts they looked at me disbelieving, they weren't rude or nasty just incredulous which could have been uncomfortable for someone just starting. I didn't say I had any experience in martial arts as it was a completely new style for me, I just wore a plain t-shirt and black Gi bottoms, no belt. A couple of them were quite patronising, it wasn't a conscious thing I think they were trying to be genuinely helpful but it reminded me of garage mechanics when they talk to a woman about her car!  A couple of the much older men though when I was holding the pads tried to really hit it as hard as they could, not a problem for me so I just smiled at them, then when it was my turn I returned the favour.  If I had been new to martial arts and less confident it was have been hugely off putting. I'm used to working in all male environments so being the only female doesn't bother me. The ones that were most welcoming and helpful were the teenagers, I'm obviously much older than then but they didn't patronise or try to punch too hard, they explained things normally. I will say sparring with the old chaps was fun, we could spar how we wanted the instructor said, so I did, I enjoyed it not sure they did though. Sparring with the teenagers was also fun, they were faster ad had good techniques but they matched themselves to me which was kind and gracious. Sadly, I only went a couple of more times before the instructor gave up the class. I hope the teenagers found somewhere else to go, they were a credit to themselves.



Very kindly put to describe some of us old fogies and our less than enlightened ways concerning women. * ;-)*


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## Tez3 (May 20, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> Thanks, that all makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Very kindly put to describe some of us old fogies and our less than enlightened ways concerning women. * ;-)*




Being an old fogey myself.........  These chaps were in their fifties and low belts so hadn't been training long perhaps a year at most. I tend to think now it was less about their gender or age and more to do with they finally had someone of a lower grade they could 'impress'.


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## hussaf (May 22, 2016)

I stopped between7-8th grass because I stared working, and getting into girls and sports.  Got back in my junior or senior year in HS because I missed it  lot and could manage my time better.  When I can back, my karate dojo had started training aikido with another group, and that group also did iaido, judo, and jujitsu.  So I got into all that stuff. Since then the karate dojo closed down and I've been training with that other group for about 15 years now 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KenpoMaster805 (Jun 15, 2016)

when I was a kid i took Taekwondo and quit when i was yellow because my dad was sick then when i enter college I meet a friend name steve he would teach me Eskrima Tai chi chi gung and wing chun then after that I moved to Bakersfield Ca I took shotokan for 6 months I quit when i was a high Orange because i moved back to my hometown Oxnard ca when I moved back to my hometown I took American Kenpo Karate and been doing American Kenpo Karate for almost 3 years and im a green belt going to be brown in December im also member of my karate's swat team and soon to be assistant instructor


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## Wilde (Jul 23, 2016)

I started training in Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan when I was eleven, then I started Hapkido about a year and a half ago, and my newest art is Wado Kai Karate. I still train in all on a regular basis, martial arts are my life, I have not found one thing I love more than doing martial arts.


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## Tez3 (Jul 23, 2016)

Interesting that someone, a male, disagrees with a female's point of view! ( yeah thanks for the 'disagree') Perhaps females aren't supposed to have a point of view or that as a male, he thinks he knows how women think better than a female.


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## marques (Jul 23, 2016)

Started because I was young and watched movies. Quite enough.  Then it was a physical activity with practical use, outside the 'sport'.
After a decade politics in the organisation... put me out. And no reasonable alternative to continue.
An incident made me rethink. I started training with friends.
Moved away... And nothing good enough again (according to my values). And little/no free time. Tried a few things, anyway.
Moved again. Tried archery. But was not it that grabs me. Then I found a nice little club just around the corner. Quite happy now.
Will move again soon... (It is becoming monotonous/repetitive. But only to the reader...)


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 27, 2016)

I began my martial art training officially year 1978, in Tae Kwon Do (traditional style, my Instructor leaned more toward Hapkido).  I stayed in it all the way until I entered the Marine Corps in 1984 and was a 1st dan black belt.  I was honorable discharged in 1993 after severing my Achilles tendon.  I got away from the Martial arts, do to knee pain.  YEARS, later I finally got a knee replacement.  I have now got back into a totally different art, which has less "high kicks", at 50 years young.


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## stephlcurry (Jul 27, 2016)

I practiced Hapkido for about 3 years but quit because my husband didn't think it was "ladylike" for me to come home with bruises and stuff.    Obviously that relationship eventually fizzled and died.

I am currently looking into various places locally to venture out into other forms of martial arts that are closer to my new place.


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## kuniggety (Jul 27, 2016)

stephlcurry said:


> I practiced Hapkido for about 3 years but quit because my husband didn't think it was "ladylike" for me to come home with bruises and stuff.    Obviously that relationship eventually fizzled and died.
> 
> I am currently looking into various places locally to venture out into other forms of martial arts that are closer to my new place.



Sounds like a good guy to kick to the curb.


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## stephlcurry (Jul 28, 2016)

Oh he definitely has been... Next time I will find a guy with enough of a spine to deal with me, haha!


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## lifelongstudent1 (Jul 28, 2016)

Not just a spine, but one who respects you and your passions.  I been there once myself with EX, will not happen again.


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## Flatfish (Jul 28, 2016)

I started with Judo when I was 11 or 12 or so and did that for about four years. Got up to green belt, then our club leadership made some personnel changes that really ticked me off and I quit, started Life guarding etc. In college I took Aikido for a semester but I did not like the atmosphere in the group very much. Then life happened, grad school, postdoc, real job, kids.

I got back into MA when I tried to find an activity for my son, then 4 1/2. We checked out TKD, he liked, his sister wanted to try, she liked, and I felt stupid sitting around watching them, so I joined up, too. That was about 2 1/2 years ago, my daughter has since quit in favor of gymnastics but my son and I still train. 

Eventually when the kids get a bit older I would like to check out some FMA but time does not allow that right now. Alternatively, if they mess up my knee surgery next week, TKD might be out for the future and I'll be looking for something else with fewer kicks.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 3, 2016)

Mark1985 said:


> As someone whoi stopped doing martial arts and am know aiming for come back, why did you stop (if so) and why are you coming back? For me, I first started doing Karate because, well, I don't know why. Probably because at age 9 or 10 my parents thought it was a good idea. And I stopped because, well, I was a kid and probably couldn't be bothered any more. As for TKD, I started that at 12/13 because some friends were doing it. And I stopped at age 16 because of laziness mainly and I just wasn't feeling it anymore.
> 
> I am coming back because I felt I didn't give them a fair chance and it was always in the back of my mind, but I always found excuses (it costs too much, I work shifts, Game of Thrones is on, etc etc) but now I feel motivated to knuckle down and get back with something I've always wanted to do.
> 
> So I want to hear your stories!


The first time I started in MA (Karate, that time, at the YMCA), I'm pretty sure I started because I'd just watched a Chuck Norris movie or something. I was 12. I stopped because my instructor closed the program - I think she moved.

The second time (this time Judo), I started because I had a real interest after seeing some Judo (I forget where), and one of my dad's friends opened a program at the college where he taught. I was 13, and the instructor soon added a Karate class, as well, which I took part in. I stopped that time because my instructor moved to Jordan to teach there. (Another instructor moving away?)

The third time I started (finally into NGA, my primary art), I had seen a demo by the chief instructor, and was immediately interested in the art and his control. I was 18. After some time, money and college got in the way and I dropped out for a while.

The fourth time I started (back to NGA, the same school now run by his senior student), I was just going back to the art that had been in my blood since I started it. I was 22. I stayed with that until that instructor closed the school. (Why did all those instructors run away?)

A couple of months later (I think I'd be 27 or so now), one of the other instructors re-opened that school, and I trained there for another 10 or 12 years (also teaching some classes) until money issues made me take a break. During that break, I started working on the curriculum for Shojin-ryu. While I was working on that, I kept practicing and dabbling in other arts (seminars, discussions and meeting up with friends in other styles, and some private lessons). Finally, I couldn't stand it any more and opened my own small program.

I'm probably not the only one here who has come back so many times. Once you find something you enjoy and grow from as much as I do in the MA, you just keep going back.


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## Juany118 (Sep 3, 2016)

I started Martial Arts in High School with Foil and Saber Fencing.  Why?  Initially because, well Alexander Dumas.  After I started though the physicality, strategy etc hooked me.  My next formal training was Aikido.  I was looking for a Martial Art that also delved into Philosophy as well as Practical Self Defense (my first Sensei definitely leaned towards the Aiki-Jujutsu origins of the art).  I took some time off because that Sensei moved and all the Aikido dojos left in the area were those that leaned more heavily to the Philosophical side but eventually I delved into Ryushinkan.  While the school was close to where I work it was a 40 minute commute from where I was living at the time and the art just didn't "click" enough with me to make that kind of commute worth while.  

I took some time off.  For quite sometime my natural speed and the conditioning training I did, along with the skills I maintained from my Aikido and Ryushinkan days served me well.  However I kept getting older and the knuckleheads I deal with at work were continuously replaced with a younger generation of knucklehead.  So I went looking around for a school that taught Martial Arts with the following question asked of the Instructors... paraphrase "I am a LEO, do you teach not only an art that is practical for that line of work but is your attitude/method of teaching also appropriate for it."  The last question is because the most appropriate Art mechanically can be made inappropriate by the focus/method of the teacher.  I really wasn't looking for a particular Art and in this line of inquiry I eventually stumbled on the school I am in now which teaches both Wing Chun and Kali, each complete, in the same class.  What made me chose this one, over the Krav Maga school BJJ School and Muay Thai School were the following...

1. BJJ is very much about going to the ground.  I do need to know how to deal with that I also need to avoid that whenever possible.
2. Muay Thai is dang effective but many of their techniques again create work issues.  The "clinch" invites someone to go to my weapon as but one example.

I almost went Krav Maga BUT the following made me chose my School.  WC in and of itself is an excellent "bridging" art to get in close and set up to apply the Aikido locks and throws I already knew. Inosanto Kali not only addresses locks, throws and ground fighting AND right out of the gate the stick work is directly applicable to my favorite "go-to" less lethal tool.  Call me an "old head" but I trust my expandable baton more than my taser.  I will also admit that it is really the Kali that I fell in love with.  I am competent in WC, but to actually test in it I need to go to the mother school (part of the deal with GM Cheung to set the school up the way it is under his "umbrella".)  However I don't know if I will ever actually test in it (it's in Jersey and my school is in PA).  I can test in Kali at my school and the flow, the rhythm, the no nonsense practicality of it literally sings to me.


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