# Seeking advice



## Athra (Apr 10, 2016)

Hello Everyone! New here...

I had to ask a question. I am considering to learn Martial Arts for mainly self defense of my and my family and to protect the people in my immediate surroundings.. Tell me what Martial Arts discipline would be best for me. There can arise many self-defense scenarios, and a burglar in your house is not a pleasant situation.
So, what I need to learn...

1. Gymnastics
2. How to break Bones
3. Pressure Points
4. Pure Savage Fight
5. Sword, Stick, and other Kung-Fu weapons
6. Iron Body conditioning
7. Climbing obstacles as trees, high walls, etc
8. Using whole body as a weapon - Throws Kicks Punches Knee Strikes Elbow strikes and much more
9. To disable for some hours WITHOUT causing them any injury  so that me and my Girlfriend can escape.
10. If someone assaults me and my girlfriend on a hike, with firearms, and police cannot be reached and they have their accomplices there- then to fight and break bones and causing maximum harm without killing them.
11. Parkour or Free Running - Basic atleast.

I am not after Meditation, or philosophy. I just need to learn how to fight.
Please tell me which style would be best for me... I mean I have time frame of 2 years and I am not after Black Belt (well, it would be an added bonus)...

Could you please help me with the selection???


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## mograph (Apr 11, 2016)

Sounds like Krav Maga? 
(But AFAIK, you'll have to learn iron body, gymnastics, climbing, parkour somewhere else).

How many hours a week can you train?
What kind of shape are you in right now?


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 11, 2016)

Athra said:


> Hello Everyone! New here...
> 
> I had to ask a question. I am considering to learn Martial Arts for mainly self defense of my and my family and to protect the people in my immediate surroundings.. Tell me what Martial Arts discipline would be best for me. There can arise many self-defense scenarios, and a burglar in your house is not a pleasant situation.
> So, what I need to learn...
> ...



Given your list of requirements, I'd suggest Hollywood-Fu.
Otherwise, I'd suggest an honest re-evaluation of not only what you want, but what is actually reasonably possible.


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## paitingman (Apr 11, 2016)

2. How to break Bones
3. Pressure Points
4. Pure Savage Fight
5. Sword, Stick, and other Kung-Fu weapons
6. Iron Body conditioning
8. Using whole body as a weapon - Throws Kicks Punches Knee Strikes Elbow strikes and much more
9. To disable for some hours WITHOUT causing them any injury so that me and my Girlfriend can escape.

These are the priorities I saw that could be addressed well on this forum. No one martial art I'm experienced in I don't believe would provide you with all this criteria. Krav Maga would help with 2, 3, 4, 8, and maybe 9 I think.
but others on this forum might be able to make good suggestions.

Also 2 years is a short window, but not impossible. 

#10 I'm not sure is possible or I just plain dont have the answer. 

Regarding #'s 1, 7, and 11. Most gymnastics/cheer gyms have a community of parkour guys and trickers and in my experience they are almost all very friendly and willing to show/help you. And you can become proficient in those areas within 2 years. 

Good luck I hope others can help you find what you're looking for.


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## Tez3 (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> . Gymnastics
> 2. How to break Bones
> 3. Pressure Points
> 4. Pure Savage Fight
> ...




I think you need to look realistically at what fights are, not the ones on films but in real life then look for proper instruction in self defence.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 12, 2016)

Bone breaking requires timing. Anyone can block a punch, but a well timed block can break stuff. First you have to learn how to move, and then you learn, time tested methods of being ready to take advantage of bad form. That is about it, on breaking bones, other than learning which bones are most easily broken, but that shouldn't be your goal. It is a side goal, at best, and one you should keep to yourself. LOL


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## JR 137 (Apr 12, 2016)

The best self defense techniques are the ones that teach you how to get out of trouble before trouble starts, i.e. knowing your surroundings and recognizing threats.

Contact your local police departments and ask if they offer self defense training.  If they don't, ask if they know of any other departments that do.  Take anyone you're interested in protecting with you.  Seeing a variety of assault, burglary, etc. cases on a regular basis, police departments are usually your best bet for realistic self defense instruction.  It's not going to be all glamorous like Hollywood makes it out to be.  

After that, find a martial arts school that is in line with what you value.  Visit as many as you can and join the one that checks the most boxes on your list of priorities.


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## Tez3 (Apr 12, 2016)

I wouldn't bank on broken bones stopping an attacker, I've seen fighters carry on with broken hands, and even a broken arm, adrenaline carries them through without any pain. Worst still would be drugged up attackers, it sometimes takes many police officers to take down someone who is high on certain drugs, they even shake off being tasered, it's truly scary.


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I wouldn't bank on broken bones stopping an attacker, I've seen fighters carry on with broken hands, and even a broken arm, adrenaline carries them through without any pain. Worst still would be drugged up attackers, it sometimes takes many police officers to take down someone who is high on certain drugs, they even shake off being tasered, it's truly scary.



Well, thank you all for the replies... actually in my opinion, the biggest self-defense asset is how to run from an attacker. I mean if someone threatens you, then RUN RUN RUN!... But provided they are not armed with throwing knife, or firearm.... 

But as most fights simply do not happen or end up like that, and in real world one has to be an all-rounder especially when talking about fighting for one's self and family. Situations can be worst and ugly, if you are in a war torn country, e.g sometime you would have to fight for your live... So knowing  how to properly fight an experienced fighter is a must..

That is why I asked all this in my first post... And I am waiting for your advice. 

P.S. I am much grateful to you all sincere people because I did not knew about this section where you moved my post. I am new here.


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

Thank


paitingman said:


> 2. How to break Bones
> 3. Pressure Points
> 4. Pure Savage Fight
> 5. Sword, Stick, and other Kung-Fu weapons
> ...


 Thank You really brother... Really....


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

I used to exercise 2 to 3 years back and currently not in a very good shape, but it is so-so. I mean not so bad too. But nothing is impossible when there is a will...


mograph said:


> Sounds like Krav Maga?
> (But AFAIK, you'll have to learn iron body, gymnastics, climbing, parkour somewhere else).
> 
> How many hours a week can you train?
> What kind of shape are you in right now?


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

Well, I think I should make myself more clearer... I need to make a selection between different schools present here at my place of Shotokan Karate, Shaolin Tai Chi Kung Fu, Taekwondo and Mixed Martial Arts. Sadly I do not have more options.

A requirement is to disarm an armed assailant. And well, the points i mentioned in the first post, someone told me that most of these were covered in Kung Fu...
I know real life fights are a nasty business. And I am not after some Hollywood stuff, infact I hate hollywood for that..

All I need to learn is to cause MAXIMUM damage to an attacker in the SHORTEST possible time, and then run away/call the police if there is option... Or if there is a life and death situation, then fighting and finishing accordingly.

I too liked Krav Maga but sadly there are no schools of that here....

Furthermore, if you could please tell me, what if I learn lets-say Shaolin Kung Fu (2, 3 years) in a school and then learn the other methods of other arts by videos, and such instructions. And not to mention by anatomy and other books... Is that possible?


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## Tez3 (Apr 12, 2016)

What sort of place do you live in? If it's so bad you need to be able to defend yourself against armed attackers perhaps moving would be a better option.
Disarming attackers isn't easy and quite honestly rarely successful.


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## GiYu - Todd (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> Well, I think I should make myself more clearer... I need to make a selection between different schools present here at my place of Shotokan Karate, Shaolin Tai Chi Kung Fu, Taekwondo and Mixed Martial Arts. Sadly I do not have more options.


Other than the Taekwondo (which is often taught as a sport with rules and limits), any of the other three might help you with your goals.  Each school would likely tell you they're the best for you... which is more marketing than helpful.  (And there's a strong temptation for each of us on MT to believe our particular style is best too... otherwise we wouldn't train in it.)
You're best option is to visit each school and see which you feel most comfortable with.  Even within a style, individual schools vary greatly in attitude and quality.  If they allow you to do a few trial classes, definitely take them up on the offer.  Which school can you imagine training at for many years?  Which best matches your schedule (and isn't too far away) so you're likely to train regularly? 
Good luck on finding something that will help you develop.


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## mograph (Apr 12, 2016)

It sounds as if you have to take what the existing schools have to offer. So, as Todd has written, visit the schools and describe your needs to them. They may say that their normal program cannot allow you to achieve such a high level of skill so quickly, so you may need a lot of one-on-one time with the master ($).

Be aware that the class needs to emphasize fighting against nasty people, because you'll need a lot of practice in a number of violent situations. You'll need to be roughed up a lot. Keep in mind that some classes might not accept you as a student, because they might not be able to tell if you are trying to protect yourself or if you want to injure people.
(Personally, I wonder if you'd be well-off seeking extra advice or training from a friend who has been in a lot of fights or defended himself from armed individuals.)

Anyway, before you visit the classes, you must be able to answer this question:*How many hours a week can you devote to this? How much money spent in lessons can you afford per week?*


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

Thank You Tez3 and GiYu - Todd and others,

Finally what I figured out for myself is, 

1 year of Physical conditioning.
2,3 years of Kung-Fu because spending more years is kind of marketing - commandos and other army guys just train for 3 years to be a special force soldier (although they train for the rest of their lives to hone their skills).
Learning Krav Maga, Russian Sambo and others from videos and in direct consultation with experienced instructors, and having my techniques etc evaluated by them.

Kung Fu will give me a base, so then selective learning from Jujitsu, Shotokan Karate, and others. 

Bone structure and joint mobility, nerve paths, and pressure points by Anatomy and other medical books, in consultation with Doctors.

Gymnastics and Basic Parkour as separate arts, because they too are important.

Your experienced suggestions and comments on my chosen approach are heartily welcome...

P.S. Where I live is not so dangerous, but who knows what happen in future.


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> It sounds as if you have to take what the existing schools have to offer. So, as Todd has written, visit the schools and describe your needs to them. They may say that their normal program cannot allow you to achieve such a high level of skill so quickly, so you may need a lot of one-on-one time with the master ($).
> 
> Be aware that the class needs to emphasize fighting against nasty people, because you'll need a lot of practice in a number of violent situations. You'll need to be roughed up a lot. Keep in mind that some classes might not accept you as a student, because they might not be able to tell if you are trying to protect yourself or if you want to injure people.
> (Personally, I wonder if you'd be well-off seeking extra advice or training from a friend who has been in a lot of fights or defended himself from armed individuals.)
> ...


3 hours per day, I think, I can give to training. But before starting any martial arts, one whole year of body conditioning by myself... And as far as money is concerned, I will have to look at that time..

My approach is, one does not always need gym to be strong. You can fill a sack with sand and do strength training with that, or for that matter real-life items. e.g. Pick  a sack, fill it with 50 kg of sand and hike a mountain. or pick up a wooden log and carry it for great distances, etc..


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## mograph (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> 3 hours per day, I think, I can give to training. But before starting any martial arts, one whole year of body conditioning by myself... And as far as money is concerned, I will have to look at that time..


IMO, if this is really important to you, it must be your only activity outside of work. Your relationship may suffer.
As for commandos and soldiers, remember that they are doing this all day. It's their _job_. If you trained for eight hours (whatever) a day, you could do that in a few years as well. So, my guess is that at 3 hours a day, it would take you nine years. It would probably take more time to get to the commando-level of skill you describe, because you would lose focus between sessions, unlike someone who does it all day, every day. 



Athra said:


> My approach is, one does not always need gym to be strong. You can fill a sack with sand and do strength training with that, or for that matter real-life items. e.g. Pick  a sack, fill it with 50 kg of sand and hike a mountain. or pick up a wooden log and carry it for great distances, etc..


That non-gym approach sounds great, but be careful with form: don't lift with your back, for example. But I would do martial arts in the first year _while_ you condition yourself, because I don't think that you could pick up what you need in martial arts in the second year alone. Hey, I have my doubts somebody could pick the skills up in _two_ years.

BTW, in my opinion, you _*must*_ practice with a partner who is willing and able to surprise you and hit you. Videos would be useless when it comes to reacting to an assailant. You can't do this by yourself.

This is a tall order. I think you need to be realistic and expect that life will get in the way, you may get injured, classes may not offer what you want. If you do find good training, stick with it, and don't quit early if it's going too slow -- give it a chance. You'll probably have to extend the time that it will take to get where you want.

I think I'll bow out and let more battle-hardened veterans chime in. You may want to ask those guys on the self-defence and/or law enforcement forums as to the best path for self-defence.


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> IMO, if this is really important to you, it must be your only activity outside of work. Your relationship may suffer.
> As for commandos and soldiers, remember that they are doing this all day. It's their _job_. If you trained for eight hours (whatever) a day, you could do that in a few years as well. So, my guess is that at 3 hours a day, it would take you nine years. It would probably take more time to get to the commando-level of skill you describe, because you would lose focus between sessions, unlike someone who does it all day, every day.
> 
> 
> ...


Oh... I am not after soldier level skills, just to be able to fight and if need arise, to die honorably while defending others.

As in today's world, when armed assailants start spraying people with bullets, then to be able to tackle atleast one and use his gun to eliminate the other attackers. I mean I do not want to be a sitting duck. As a human being and a man, I have the duty to protect myself, my family, and the people around me.

And yes you are right that a qualified instructor for all these exercises is really necessary.


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## mograph (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> As in today's world, when armed assailants start spraying people with bullets, then to be able to tackle at least one and use his gun to eliminate the other attackers.


I think you definitely need some serious, face-to-face conversations with military or law enforcement in your area. Ask them, in X situation, what could you do? What are the likely outcomes? Under what conditions would you, an unarmed civilian, be able to tackle someone spraying bullets into a crowd?


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## Athra (Apr 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> I think you definitely need some serious, face-to-face conversations with military or law enforcement in your area. Ask them, in X situation, ...


Will definitely give it a try, Thank you brother.. You helped me a lot.. Thanks again...


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> Sounds like Krav Maga?
> (But AFAIK, you'll have to learn iron body, gymnastics, climbing, parkour somewhere else).
> 
> How many hours a week can you train?
> What kind of shape are you in right now?


You can train everyday for 2 years in any fighting system and you still won't be on the level that the OP is describing.  Even after 2 years of hard practice you'll be lucky if you can use a majority of the basic techniques with efficiency beyond punch and kick.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

paitingman said:


> 2. How to break Bones
> 3. Pressure Points
> 4. Pure Savage Fight
> 5. Sword, Stick, and other Kung-Fu weapons
> ...


Iron body conditioning takes time.  It's a gradual process and it's not something that you can train hard everyday.  Healing time has to be factored in.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> actually in my opinion, the biggest self-defense asset is how to run from an attacker.


 This doesn't always work. I recently saw a video of a guy who tried to run away from someone who had a knife. The victim couldn't run faster than the attacker. The attacker caught up with him and stabbed the victim.  The victim couldn't defend himself because his back was to the attacker. The end result is that the victim was stabbed once and died.

People always make the assumption that they can outrun their attacker and that running way is always the best option.  When you run away, you give your back to your attacker. The important thing is to create distance and running away is just one of the many options to do so.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 12, 2016)

I would recommend that you take a trial Kung Fu class or a trial martial arts class so you can get better understanding of what it takes to be able to do what you are trying to learn.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 12, 2016)

mograph said:


> I think you definitely need some serious, face-to-face conversations with military or law enforcement in your area. Ask them, in X situation, what could you do? What are the likely outcomes? Under what conditions would you, an unarmed civilian, be able to tackle someone spraying bullets into a crowd?


Or you could ask me. Get them when they are reloading.


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## mograph (Apr 12, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Or you could ask me. Get them when they are reloading.


Now, why didn't I think of that?


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## Lameman (Apr 12, 2016)

The honest truth here. I don't think you really understand what it is that you want. You have a romantic idea of what you think you will need but, by and large, you will never need 90% of that stuff. Throw the list away, start over with a clean slate. Go to any of those schools, they will be able to teach you whatever you need to know. No more, no less. And it doesn't take all that much training to beat the average wannabe dumb***. You keep at it, and eventually, you will be able to defend yourself in most any situation. And very likely, asumming you aren't planning on a carreer in organized crime, security, law enforcement or the military, you won't ever need to defend yourself. You know your city, you know where you shouldn't be when. Use good, common sense, and you will be okay.


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## Flying Crane (Apr 12, 2016)

Berserker fighting arts.  Nothing else will do.  You can find their website on the Internet.

Or, if you are really really lucky, you might live near a qualified Xuefu instructor.  That's even better.  I personally know of only two of them, one on the East Coast and the other on the West Coast, of the US.  They do not have a website.

Or Llap Goch.  That is good too.


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## WaterGal (Apr 12, 2016)

You can't spend a year doing body conditioning for 3 hours a day unless you're taking steroids (and maybe not even then). Your body needs more time to heal up. Plus, you may get burned out and quit.

I think a more realistic approach would be to start some martial arts training now, and on the days you're not going to classes, go to the gym or mess around with some of the parkour-type stuff you're interested in.  

I'd recommend starting off by visiting the martial arts schools around you.  Most schools will let you do a free intro class or some kind of cheap trial package without committing to anything.  Based on what you've talked about here, I think the MMA place will probably be the best fit for you, but it wouldn't hurt to look at all the spots.  Every school has it's own culture, community, attitudes, etc.  It doesn't just come down to the style listed on the sign.


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## drop bear (Apr 12, 2016)

Sambo.  Which is judo gymnastics krav and mma mixed. 

get the right school and it is actually a legitimate martial art.


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## Ironbear24 (Apr 12, 2016)

Athra said:


> Hello Everyone! New here...
> 
> I had to ask a question. I am considering to learn Martial Arts for mainly self defense of my and my family and to protect the people in my immediate surroundings.. Tell me what Martial Arts discipline would be best for me. There can arise many self-defense scenarios, and a burglar in your house is not a pleasant situation.
> So, what I need to learn...
> ...



Sounds to me like you want to a be a ninja. Gymnastics is not necessary to be a better fighter, weapons are debatable, most of the time you will not have one with you when they are needed. Climbing things? That is not related to fighting at all. Parkour and free running have nothing to do with fighting.


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## Athra (Apr 16, 2016)

Well Thank you all for replying to my stupid question.... Thank You......


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## Tez3 (Apr 16, 2016)

Athra said:


> Well Thank you all for replying to my stupid question.... Thank You......



I assume that was sarcasm. You've had advice from experts, people with many years experience, I'm sorry it doesn't gel with your expectations and the truth is mundane but there you go.


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## Buka (Apr 16, 2016)

Athra, welcome to Martial Talk. It's been a pleasure reading your thread. You've got some great advice in there. As has been advised, go check out each school available to you, feel which one would be most comfortable to you, and go sign up. You can do your own conditioning at the same time, on your own time. Heck, you can carry those bags of sand around your house if you want.

I hope you don't get confused by the different threads. If you read the _"How much time for a beginner to practically use your system?"_ thread, you might walk away thinking anywhere from one day to six months would be all you need. But, it might take a little longer. So what the heck are you waiting for? Go watch at all the places, you'll have a ball. Might find a great dojo, too. Please keep us posted as to what you watch, think and feel. Best of luck, kiddo.


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## marques (Apr 16, 2016)

After reading it all, it seems you believe too much in martial capabilities. 
Like medicine, it may help (a little), (with illusions) it may harm... Be careful.


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## Athra (Apr 16, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I assume that was sarcasm. You've had advice from experts, people with many years experience, I'm sorry it doesn't gel with your expectations and the truth is mundane but there you go.


Brother that was NOT sarcasm...

All of the people here, you included, are either mine elders or have more experience than me, or some can be like me (experience wise), so all of you are extremely respectable for me.... I really meant it, I mean the Thank You, because all the people here gave me their time and effort and helped me re-think what I wanted, in other words tried to clear my line of sight...

Again, Thank You for all the respectable people here...
And It is not sarcasm, I truly respect you all.. We in East respect knowledgeable, elders and others.


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## Tez3 (Apr 17, 2016)

Athra said:


> Brother that was NOT sarcasm...
> 
> All of the people here, you included, are either mine elders or have more experience than me, or some can be like me (experience wise), so all of you are extremely respectable for me.... I really meant it, I mean the Thank You, because all the people here gave me their time and effort and helped me re-think what I wanted, in other words tried to clear my line of sight...
> 
> ...



The written word can be misleading so my apologies and thank you for a nice post. Btw it's 'sister' lol.


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