# When does your system begin blade training?



## Carol (Jan 26, 2007)

If your system does blade training, do you have a general point when the student begins training with blades?

In our school we typically divide up the training by quarters and each quarter focuses on a family of techs.  When the student begings blade training would largely depend on the time of year (and providing the student is ready to learn)

What about you all?  Anyone start training with blades from day 1?


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## tellner (Jan 26, 2007)

Yes and no.

In Silat Kilap Betawi de Thouars we started from day 1 with a knife.

In Sera it's mentioned, and recently beginning students have begun learning defenses against knives early on. But he's very chary about teaching attacking with the knife to anyone he hasn't known a _long_ time. Of course, our blade work has improved markedly even when we haven't explicitly doing knives.


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## Blindside (Jan 26, 2007)

Day 1.  It is a bladed weapon art, what else are you going to study, knitting?


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Day 1. It is a bladed weapon art, what else are you going to study, knitting?


 

Well...sometimes ya use sticks in place of blades, eh?


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## El_Seepo (Jan 26, 2007)

I just started a Pekiti Tirsia class at my university after spending a good five years away from the FMA. 

We were doing some basic knife tapping drills from day one! 

It's great to be back!


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## Mariachi Joe (Jan 26, 2007)

With ussd you have the option of begining blade training at purple, but it cost an additional $150/month so it is not required.


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## tellner (Jan 27, 2007)

$150 extra a month to learn one of the most basic weapons? No offense meant, but do they at least buy you dinner first?


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## Carol (Jan 27, 2007)

Substantiated and unsubstantiated claims about USSD have been discussed ad-nauseum in threads that are in the Kenpo section...as well threads that used to be in the Kenpo section and have since been moved to Horror Stories.  

I'd hate to see this thread moved to Horror Stories.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 27, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> Substantiated and unsubstantiated claims about USSD have been discussed ad-nauseum in threads that are in the Kenpo section...as well threads that used to be in the Kenpo section and have since been moved to Horror Stories.
> 
> I'd hate to see this thread moved to Horror Stories.


 
I agree, keep it out. No need to hijack another thread.


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## tellner (Jan 27, 2007)

Sorry 'bout that. I've never heard of USSD.


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## Carol (Jan 27, 2007)

tellner said:


> Sorry 'bout that. I've never heard of USSD.


 
Tellner your input and Joe's input  is always welcome.  I wasn't aiming the comment to you or Joe...just hoping that the conversation didn't get derailed.  A few of the threads were locked this week...I was just hoping that this would not be one of them, especially since the topic of blade training is not specific to Kenpo, Fred Villari, or USSD.  

United Studios of Self Defense is a Kempo chain originally started by Fred Villari.  The chain has seen days of wild success and almost equally wild controversy.

Check here and here and look for threads on Fred Villari or USSD.  

Back on the subject of knifefighting...  

That is really interesting about how your system teaches blade work.  In our flavor we do everything empty hand first, and then the more advanced students do very similar moves just with a blade.  I haven't tried out any of the blade work but I've seen some of the senior students do some moves with some BIG training blades.  It's just AWESOME to see.


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## Guro Harold (Jan 27, 2007)

Day one for me as well.

Also, everyone is welcome to contribute and post on the board as long as they stay on topic and are mindful of the MT policies.

-Palusut


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## tellner (Jan 27, 2007)

It really is interesting and a little remarkable. We went to a seminar where there was an Eskrima teacher. He wanted to have people with knives in pairs. One minute one attacked and the other defended. The next minute, switch. We hadn't done any explicit knife work in years. But we'd been a little Silatized. After about a second he stopped us and said "half speed so people can see". OUr appreciation of distance, attacking and positioning were much better than than when we were doing it regularly, and "attacker" and "defender" were completely arbitrary. The knife was implicit in the empty hand as was the idea that you never trade a shot for a shot - works fine with fists, not a good idea with something sharp. 

But again, we've done very little that's explicitly using a knife. 

There are two factors here. First is Guru Plinck's morals. The way he teaches knife it's just too easy to hurt someone. There's no flashing around at the middle distance, little or know "1-2-3" or "defanging the snake". Those, he says, are for when you're being merciful. Different game. The second is that he's a stickler for quality control. A lot of students' Silat goes to pieces when they have a weapon. He wants to make sure it's internalized and that the tools are there before the distraction is added. 

The only people he's taught attacking with the knife to early were servicemen who had their orders waiting for overseas. One of them in currently on his fourth rotation into Iraq with the 75th Rangers.


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## Trent (Jan 27, 2007)

Yes, from day one, as everything we do is with the principle of using and defending a knife.  I will say that much like Todd's Guru, we won't necessarily show everyone this priniciple in detail until much later.


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## JasonASmith (Jan 27, 2007)

Usually Green Belt and above for us...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 27, 2007)

In IRT tools are introduced from day one.  The blade definately falls into that category.  Great thread!


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## Wes Tasker (Jan 27, 2007)

In Pekiti Tirsia (as taught by Tuhon Bill McGrath) Empty Hand vs. Knife is covered early on in the curriculum.  The offensive / counter-offensive use of the knife, however, is only taught to a student that I know and trust.  Which usually means you don't see knife until 6 months to a year of study...  But there's plenty to keep someone busy in the meantime...

-wes tasker


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