# What is the Phoenix Eye Fist?



## Yoshiyahu

I know there is some debate on what the Phoenix Eye fist look like.

Well I found some examples on the net to show what I have been taught by Sifu.

Wing Chun Books on *Phoenix Eye Fist*

*1. http://books.google.com/books?id=t36y4sRDkWMC&pg=PA57&dq=Phoenix+Eye+Fist*

*2. http://books.google.com/books?id=OTMshtGXiqoC&pg=PA405&dq=Phoenix+Eye+Fist&lr=#PPA406,M1*

*3. **http://books.google.com/books?id=BUH7afcq7xAC&pg=PA52&dq=Phoenix+Eye+Fist&lr=#PPA53,M1*



*Videos*





(Not sure he is doing Wing Chun although certain aspects are similiar)
_Steps are Wing Chun Wing Chun_
_Hand Posistioning Beside breast_
_Chainpunches are Wing Chun_
_Double Fist strike are Wing Chun_







(Video showing Image of Phoenix Fist)





(Phoenix Fist Training)






Pictures:










http://www.chiquanshu.org/kung_fu/hand_forms.htmlhttp://images.google.com/imgres?img...20&prev=/images?q=Phoenix+Eye+Fist&um=1&hl=en


*Please share your comments and opinions?*


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## Jade Tigress

I don't train Wing Chun, but that it was I was taught a Phoenix Eye Fist is as well.


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## Yoshiyahu

ok what Art do you train?


Wing Chun has lots of Techniques people aren't aware of such as

1.Phoenix Eye Fist
2.Leopard Paw(Ginger Fist)
3.Snake Hand(Iron Fingers)
4.Sun Fist(Vertical Punch)

Wing Chun also has:
1.Right and Left Hooks(Found in Bil Gee)
2.Upper Cuts(Found in Chum Kiu)




Jade Tigress said:


> I don't train Wing Chun, but that it was I was taught a Phoenix Eye Fist is as well.


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## mook jong man

In our lineage there is mainly only the standard vertical fist and a couple of different palm strikes and forearm strikes . 

I remember reading about some one asked Sigung about this lack of variety in punch formations and he said he didn't need them because no one has ever been able to block his punch or palm strike and just the punch or palm strike were quite sufficient for the job.


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## Yoshiyahu

Interesting Mook Jong Man. So your Sifu doesn't teach all the strikes of Wing Chun and all the techniques? Just a few punches and palmstrikes? Have you ever woundered if there was more to your system?




mook jong man said:


> In our lineage there is mainly only the standard vertical fist and a couple of different palm strikes and forearm strikes .
> 
> I remember reading about some one asked Sigung about this lack of variety in punch formations and he said he didn't need them because no one has ever been able to block his punch or palm strike and just the punch or palm strike were quite sufficient for the job.


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## mook jong man

There is the usual Bil Gee strikes and all that and elbow strikes , hook punches etc , but as far as I know there is no exotic type of fist formations in our lineage like Phoenix eye fists etc .

 According to Sigung Tsui he teaches pretty much as was taught to him by Yip Man . With the exception of the Tan Sau which he asked  Yip Man if he could make the Tan Sau higher up in the SLT form because he got struck in the chest by a mantis master , so it was agreed that the Tan Sau should be performed higher up in relation to the body .

 With my own Sifu he added low side kick , medium side kick , charging side kick I think he got these from Choy Lay Fut which he tried first as a teenager before training under Sigung Tsui . 

Sigung could of got rid of stuff that he didn't think was needed I don't know , but the impression I got is that they can teach you to punch with so much power with just an ordinary vertical fist or palm strike that there is not much call for other type of fist structures .
 Even if they did leave stuff out , what ever is left is still a very direct , fast , and potent fighting system

But I still have an open mind to such techniques indeed I have added an eye strike to my arsenal that uses the back of the fingers like a whip across the eyes , it was taught to me by my Ilustrisimo teacher  , it works great from the WC guard and I can get a fair amount of power into it also if you miss  and hit skull you wont break your fingers like a conventional finger jab .


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## Yoshiyahu

Are familiar with the purpose of the Phoenix Eye Fist? 


I agree about the power of regular punches and palm strikes. But the other two strikes are really for more power. In fact you do not need as much power when using these strikes if you have conditioned your hands.  





mook jong man said:


> There is the usual Bil Gee strikes and all that and elbow strikes , hook punches etc , but as far as I know there is no exotic type of fist formations in our lineage like Phoenix eye fists etc .
> 
> According to Sigung Tsui he teaches pretty much as was taught to him by Yip Man . With the exception of the Tan Sau which he asked Yip Man if he could make the Tan Sau higher up in the SLT form because he got struck in the chest by a mantis master , so it was agreed that the Tan Sau should be performed higher up in relation to the body .
> 
> With my own Sifu he added low side kick , medium side kick , charging side kick I think he got these from Choy Lay Fut which he tried first as a teenager before training under Sigung Tsui .
> 
> Sigung could of got rid of stuff that he didn't think was needed I don't know , but the impression I got is that they can teach you to punch with so much power with just an ordinary vertical fist or palm strike that there is not much call for other type of fist structures .
> Even if they did leave stuff out , what ever is left is still a very direct , fast , and potent fighting system
> 
> But I still have an open mind to such techniques indeed I have added an eye strike to my arsenal that uses the back of the fingers like a whip across the eyes , it was taught to me by my Ilustrisimo teacher , it works great from the WC guard and I can get a fair amount of power into it also if you miss and hit skull you wont break your fingers like a conventional finger jab .


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## DaleDugas

In South Mantis the phoenix eye fist or the Fong Ngai Kuen is used in a manner like a very sharp weapon to strike into softer areas of the body.

Palms would generally be used on hard targets, and the PEF usually on the soft areas.

It is used in Uechi Ryu Karate as well.  It crosses many arts and many cultures.

You have to train it, as most people think use it in a manner that could break your fingers.

It helps make people VERY cooperative when used....


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## Jade Tigress

Yoshiyahu said:


> ok what Art do you train?



I train Southern Praying Mantis (Jook Lum).


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## Yoshiyahu

You seem knowledgeable on this subject. Please share what would be the purpose of the Phoenix eye? Is it useful and why train it?

What advantage does the PEF give you?



DaleDugas said:


> In South Mantis the phoenix eye fist or the Fong Ngai Kuen is used in a manner like a very sharp weapon to strike into softer areas of the body.
> 
> Palms would generally be used on hard targets, and the PEF usually on the soft areas.
> 
> It is used in Uechi Ryu Karate as well. It crosses many arts and many cultures.
> 
> You have to train it, as most people think use it in a manner that could break your fingers.
> 
> It helps make people VERY cooperative when used....


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