# Are all Trad arts a joke to an MMA'r?



## cfr (Mar 16, 2005)

For the purpose of this conversation, lets think of a Traditional art as something along the lines of Karate, Kung Fu, TKD, etc. Then lets think of sport arts as Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, etc. This way we don't go down the "what is traditional" road.

In the eyes of you true MMA practitioners, are all Trad arts lame? Do you know any Trad arts that you think are worth while/ are glad you trained in/ would like to train in? Both sides of the never ending "sport vs. trad" arguement are pretty passionate about they're stance's.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 16, 2005)

No, but the attitudes of *some* of the pracitioners are.


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## lonecoyote (Mar 16, 2005)

Chuck Liddell doesn't feel that way (kempo) and neither does Sakuraba (Aikido, I read that somewhere) or any number of less famous MMA people who started in/ still train in traditional martial arts as well as do MMA.


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## Tremble (Mar 16, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> No, but the attitudes of *some* of the pracitioners are.


That cuts both ways doesn't it.


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## hardheadjarhead (Mar 16, 2005)

No.  Not all MMA'ers think traditional arts are a joke.

A number treat them with the respect they deserve.  I'll never forget Erik Paulson spontaneously breaking out into a TKD form at a seminar I hosted here in Bloomington.  He did it pretty well, too.  Turns out he has a dan ranking in TKD (3rd, I think).  He also trained in Aikido and is an instructor under Inosanto.  

JulesK (Julie Kedzie), here on MT, is also a third dan in TKD.  Three of the CSW instructors in my school have black belts in TKD.  One has an additional black belt in Hapkido.  All three are certified in other arts in addition to that.  They may not practice some of those systems anymore, but they don't treat those arts disrespectfully.

Very often an art will lose its emotional impact and we move on...for whatever reason.  We might not be able to do it as once we did due to age and infirmity.  We might take a shine to something else that piques our interest.  The parting can be amicable. Turning away from our past arts doesn't mean we're turning our backs on them.   For many of us they still hold a fond place in our hearts for their contributions to our lives. 

True...not all of us are this tolerant.  Some are ever seeking "The One True Way" and often feel they've found it, whether it be MMA, TKD, or what have you.  For these folks posturing with fundamentalist religious fervor is standard operating procedure.  Selah.




Regards,


Steve


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## Bammx2 (Mar 16, 2005)

Taditionaly,I have a dan grade in shotokan and shorinryu and I although I don't teach it anymore(too many katas for me)

I still use aspects of them in everything I teach.
And to be quite honest....I LOVE the shotokan reverse punch!
 I have used it many times in many situations and God bless, does it work!
Even though MMA gives me freedom to utilise other things and I swear by some mma's....some of the old school will never be beat!


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## Sarah (Mar 16, 2005)

Personally I dont think any art is a joke.....and who am I to comment on an art I have never trained in?


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## WilliamJ (Mar 17, 2005)

Sakuraba is a wrestler he does not do aikido.

It's not that traditional art's themselves are bad, it's the way most schools train them that's bad.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 17, 2005)

WilliamJ said:
			
		

> It's not that traditional art's themselves are bad, it's the way most schools train them that's bad.


 Different things serve different purposes, and some ARE bad for some purposes.

 A Semi truck is bad if you are going into a race, a formula-1 is bad if you are moving.

 TKD is bad if you are going into MMA, MMA is bad if you are going into tkd competition.

 The big "joke" often comes from people thinking they and there art can do anything anywhere at anytime and not break a sweat doing it...

 And lets face reality, when it comes to fighting what some people are doing is only good for fantasy.  Now that is not any specific art, but individual schools.


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## ace (Mar 22, 2005)

I love  Martial Arts.

The original Masters were not cought up
in Tradition beacuse  they were to busy creating it.

Those who don't learn from the past with out
knowing will soon repeat it.


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## JDenz (Mar 27, 2005)

Without arguing your definition of a traditional martial art I would have to say no.  I would say almost all of the first and second generation MMA's come form a more traditional MA background.   I think you see alot of the MMA practicioners on martial talk feeling forced to defend there art because of the high concentration of TMA on this forum.  I really don't think there is really a disrespect amoung MMA's.  I think they just have a diffrent view on things then the TMA.


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## Drag'n (Mar 28, 2005)

When I see TMAtists doing one step drills where one guy throws a telegraphed lunge reverse punch and the defender blocks and does a 3 move counter while the attacker just stands there, yes I think its a joke.
Because in reality no one will ever attack you like that.
The same goes for some of those Aikido schools where all the attacks are downward chops or lunging grabs.
I also think its lame when people practise kata without understanding and practising the applications.
Its funny to watch guys spar without even touching each other.
And I just cant tollerate blind acceptance of techniques,just because they are part of the system, without really considering their effectiveness against various attacks.
Of course not all traditional schools are guilty of these things. When I was younger and training in TMA many of these practises were rampant.
People were starting their own dojos after 5 or 6 years training and teaching watered down MA for the masses. Regurgitating what they were taught without really testing its effectiveness.
Its because of those kind of poor TMA schools that the whole TMA community gets dissed by MMA.
Sadly, good TMA schools are hard to find.
But there are  alot of things I really like about TMA. If they are practised with an open mind and a realistic approach, I think they can be very effective.
If it wasn't for TMA we wouldn't have MMA!
Its all just part of the natural process of evolution.


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## JDenz (Mar 28, 2005)

I totally agree with your post.


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## Isrephael (Mar 28, 2005)

I certainly hope that any self-assured, overly-confident MMA practitioners* out there think that my traditional training is a very funny joke.  If they are busy laughing, then hopefully they won't feel the need to show me how "FUGGIN' UBER MAH SKILLZ ARE".  There's nothing more dangerous than a man whose ignorance is only outweighed by his bravado.

Of course, I also hope that we're not saying Traditional Martial Arts to be watered-down katas from a mailorder DVD collection, or the latest martial art-cum-sport that limits itself with rules and regulations.

I've studied Kendo.  Traditional?  Yep.  Martial Art?  Not really.  It's a very traditional sport.

I've studied Iaido.  Traditional?  And then some.  Martial Art?  Sure is... But may the Saints allow that I just happen to have my katana at my hip every time I walk down a dark alley.  So, as effective as MMA for real world application?  Of course not.

Which brings me to traditional Chinese martial arts.  (not Wu Shu)  We _traditionally_ learn how to _traditionally_ snap joints, _traditionally_ rupture organs, _traditionally_ crush tracheas, and generally, _traditionally_ maim, cripple, and kill.  These are traditions that arose from one of the most war-torn, brutal eras of human history.  I don't know of anyone that would laugh at that "joke", but I certainly have a hell of a punchline.


*I'm not in any way saying that MMA practitioners are typically ignorant or overly-confident.  My school teaches MMA/NHB competition, incorporating traditional CMA with BJJ.  I speak only to the type of person that would laugh at other martial arts.


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## Shogun (Mar 28, 2005)

~nods head~


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## bustr (Mar 28, 2005)

MMAers are confident in themselves and at the same time humble and thus feel no need to trash other forms.


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## Sarah (Mar 28, 2005)

Well Said!!!



			
				bustr said:
			
		

> MMAers are confident in themselves and at the same time humble and thus feel no need to trash other forms.


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 29, 2005)

_MMAers are confident in themselves and at the same time humble and thus feel no need to trash other forms._

I'm assuming "MMA" stands for "Mature Martial Artist"?


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## bustr (Mar 29, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> _MMAers are confident in themselves and at the same time humble and thus feel no need to trash other forms._
> 
> I'm assuming "MMA" stands for "Mature Martial Artist"?



I suppose you could say that if, by mature, you mean having been humbled and given confidence by full contact training. The type or mixture of martial art really isn't important then.


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