# Street application of kenpo



## Jim Micozzi (Mar 10, 2002)

Greetings everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has utilized their kenpo in the street in order to defend themselves from an attack.  Unfortunately, I have had to use my kenpo several times during my career as a police officer in New York City.  I look forward to hearing any replies.  

Yours in kenpo 

Jimmy:


:wavey:




Edited to fix broken smiley - Kaith


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## Robbo (Mar 10, 2002)

Hey Jimmy,

I have not had the dubious pleasure of using Kenpo in the street to defend myself but I have a question for you.

Kenpo does not seem like the ideal way for a police officer to defend himself, it seems like you could get yourself into trouble by utilizing the techniques to their fullest extent. How do you bypass this? Do you tailor the response for the situation or do you tend towards more submission and joint locking techniques? Or have you used the awareness training to not put yourself into a bad situation. Or have you just reacted and realized what happened after it was over?

Just curious,
Rob


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## Jim Micozzi (Mar 10, 2002)

Rob

I really did not have the oppurtunity to use submission or joint locking technique right off.  It really won't work unless you first soften the suspect up.  When I have to subdue a suspect who will no cooperate and is fighting,  I basically just keep hitting the suspect until he goes down and then I might use a wrist lock to control him while he is handcuffed.  You will not be able to pull off an entire technique but that is not the reason we learn the techniques.  We learn the whole technique in order to have numerous options available to us.  We also complete a category when we learn the whole technique.  

Yours in Kenpo
Jimmy:


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## Robbo (Mar 10, 2002)

> We also complete a category when we learn the whole technique.



Hey Jimmy,

What do you mean by the above quote. Also I would like to get more of a understanding of what you mean by hitting an opponent till he goes down. Have you actually using any Kenpo techniques or just combinations of kicking and punching. When you say 'use' Kenpo are you refering to the techinques/ideas or meaning the overall fighting skills/freestyle that you have learned. Or both of course 

Thank-You,
Rob


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## Jim Micozzi (Mar 10, 2002)

quote: We also complete a category when we learn the whole technique. 

Rob

If you look at the techniques, you begin to notice that is the majority of them you hit one part of the body, ie the head or torso, then you go to another thereby completing a category.  

In regard to using kenpo on the street, I have actually used parts of Thrusting salute, crossing talon, parting wings and dance of death.  The key word is PART.  It is virtually an impossibilty to pull off the entire technique.  As to hitting the person until he is down, that is also a practice in kenpo.  Keep hitting until the threat is eliminated.  

I hope this helps clarify my earlier statement.

Jimmy
:wavey:


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## Robbo (Mar 10, 2002)

Thanks for the explanations.

Rob


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## GouRonin (Mar 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jim Micozzi _
> *I was wondering if anyone has utilized their kenpo in the street in order to defend themselves from an attack *



Yes.


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## Kirk (Mar 10, 2002)

> _ Originally Posted By: Gou Ronin_
> Yes.



Way I heard it, you "cheated"    :rofl: :rofl:


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## Jim Micozzi (Mar 11, 2002)

Gou Ronin

   Could you elaborate?  

Jimmy


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## GouRonin (Mar 11, 2002)

What exactly are you looking to hear? I've used Kenpo several times to defend myself. However I have never used a full kenpo technique. Bits and pieces used here and there in sequences that they were applicable.


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## Kirk (Mar 11, 2002)

> _Originally Posted By Gou Ronin _
> What exactly are you looking to hear? I've used Kenpo several times to defend myself. However I have never used a full kenpo technique. Bits and pieces used here and there in sequences that they were applicable.




Tell the story.  "Once upon a time I was in a bar/theater/whore house/whatever and this guy comes up and ...."


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## GouRonin (Mar 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Tell the story.  "Once upon a time I was in a bar/theater/whore house/whatever and this guy comes up and ...." *



I work with people who have a serious sustained mental illness and often I have to be at the psychiatric institution. One time I was attacked by a guy with a knife and I used a Raining Lance motion to parry the knife.

I have also used a Sword Of Destruction opening block/strike at the Ridout Tavern to stop a sucker punch then open a can of whoopass.

Does that help? I have on occasion put my jock on and gone down to the bar looking to see if my techniques will work. It's interesting to see what works and when.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that I used to be the kinda guy Jim ends up talking to at the end of the night.
:rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 13, 2002)

I have bounced in several bars over the years and unfortunately had to utilize what i had learned in class.  I was always happy that I had trained hard because it saved my butt but i always felt bad after because even though I had defended myself I still felt like I had lost something in the process.  I think there are no real winners in a fight, just one person who survived a little better.


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## Cthulhu (Mar 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *I have bounced in several bars over the years and unfortunately had to utilize what i had learned in class.  I was always happy that I had trained hard because it saved my butt but i always felt bad after because even though I had defended myself I still felt like I had lost something in the process.  I think there are no real winners in a fight, just one person who survived a little better. *



_"Victory goes to the player who makes the next to the last mistake."_
                           -unknown

Cthulhu


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 16, 2002)

Just had one on the first of this year!  What a way to start the new  year off.


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## Sigung86 (Mar 16, 2002)

Dennis ... I, personally, am proud of the way you handled that situation.  I think you're looking for a Gou type of zinger, but there isn't one here.  You didn't take anyone out, and you certainly could have.  As a matter of fact, I suspect you almost turned it into a teaching opportunity.  Name one other person who would have handled it  that well??

I used it as an example in one of my classes, and it was accepted with considerable respect from my students.  Now ... Wipe that frowny face off and get on with it!:boing2: 

Dan


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 16, 2002)

Thanks!

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 16, 2002)

It is not your fault if a person is too stupid to know how much danger they potentially face.  If you handle the situation with civility and and did not lower yourself to level of the offending person then you can keep your head high.


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## Kirk (Mar 16, 2002)

Have any of  you ever been attacked by a student?  What was
the situation, and what did you have to do to handle it?


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Have any of  you ever been attacked by a student?  What was
> the situation, and what did you have to do to handle it? *



I was once threatened by a beginner because I told him after his free introductory lesson that he was not welcome to be a student at my school.  My hysterical laughing really made him rethink the situation, and he left without incident.  For years after whenever I would bounce at one of the bars in town he would start to walk in and see me working he would turn around and leave.  It just goes to show you people don't always think, and then they have to pay for a long time after.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 17, 2002)

I started him off with a couple of my better fighters so as to watch his control and attitude, we informed him of what you could and could not do in our "brand" of sparring.  He looked a little rusty but non the less he obviously had  done this before and it turned  out to be fine.

Finally he drew me after about 3 or 4 prior matches.  We started sparring and I was having fun.   He was no match for me but was a big guy to play with (I like that).   I hit him with a couple of back fists and worked on my reverse punch and seemed to gain a little more respect than when he first came into the studio and he was showing signs of comfort and his respect seemed to be changing a bit towards our  studio as it seemed to remind him somewhat of his old school.  

Now I have always like take downs and have developed through the years a fairly good reputation of being good at them.  Well, not always can you take someone down when you want to ...... you need several circumstances to be present to make it work easily without forcing the issue.  As you might have guessed I had the cards all line up and Boom......... down he went.  He was looking up at me smiling at him when he said..... well, that was nice but I hit you with a backfist before you were able to  take me down so it would not have been all that effective.

I said....... "really", ok lets see..... so he got up and we sparred around for a few seconds when, Boom down again he went and this time I followed with several kicks and punches which totally overwhelmed him.   He got up again and I rushed him with a backfist followed by a strong reverse punch then ridgehand, and swept him again.  This brought the  whole class to attention as to the commotion that was going on with this new guy and myself.   They all noticed that my level of sparring was turned up a notch and I was following up way more than normal.  Now he is looking up at me all confused and battered.  

I grabbed him by the lapel and stood him up against the wall and  told him "Look, you don't come into a studio and tell the instructor that you'd like to sign up but make him feel as if his studio is 2nd rate to your old studio.   You had better make sure that the studio you enter isn't better than your old studio, and don't develop an attitude with the main instructor and tell him that his technique was too slow and won't work and that yours will." 

At this point he was embarrassed and gassed and apologized.  He said he had never been manhandled like that before.  I said,  well there is more to the Martial Arts World than your particular Ninjitsu studio.  Welcome to Ed Parker's American Kenpo and me.

We ended class at this time and he thanked me and left.... 

He never made it to his last class.

Oh well,.......

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *I started him off with a couple of my better fighters so as to watch his control and attitude, we informed him of what you could and could not do in our "brand" of sparring.  He looked a little rusty but non the less he obviously had  done this before and it turned  out to be fine.
> 
> ...



Sometimes that is the only way people learn.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 17, 2002)

Well, all I know is that is how I teach.

:sniper: 
:asian:


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## Kirk (Mar 17, 2002)

Great story, GD7!  Not sure I'd want to be in that guy's shoes
though! hehehe  Do you still spar in your studio?  What 
benefits do you feel come from sparring?  We don't spar in
my school, at all.  When I took TKD I was told that the point 
behind sparring was to give full powered attacks, and know
what it felt like.  Also to get a taste of getting hit, and what
it's like to try to attack when someone is attacking you.  

I also seemed to notice that on quite a bit of kenpo forums
that a lot of schools around the country don't spar (seems to
be about 50 - 50).  Why is it this way with kenpo, and doesn't
seem to be with other styles?


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 17, 2002)

Sparring is extremely important.  It is one third of our Art.  There are many benefits ...... this will be for a new string  me thinks.    So look for one today.

As  to other studios which choose to do more forms or technique lines vs. sparring......... You'll have to ask them  that question.

I'm not a good one to ask that.  You may not get an answer you want to hear.  LOl

:asian:


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