# Slow Movements, Fast Fighting



## 7starmantis (Apr 5, 2004)

In the May issue of Inside Kung-Fu magazine there was an article of taiji that was pretty interesting.

   "Many people are skeptical that tai chi is a martial art. "How can anyone defend himslef in slow motion?" they ask.  This is a reasonable question if people have only seen tai chi done in slow motion.
    However, the perception is inaccurate, as tai chi dose have training methods that allow practitioners to move at exceptionally fast fighting speeds. Here are five examples of how practicing tai chi's slow movements translate into fighting exceptionally fast.
    1. Tai Chi tones and relaxes the muscles. The more relaxed and toned muscles are, the faster they can move.
    2. Tai Chi trains the central nervous system to be more effecient. The nerves the ngive strong signals to the muscles to move faster.
    3. Slow-motion movement acts like a kind of weight on the muscles, which when removed, causes them to move faster.
    4. Tai Chi gets your whole body movement coordinated. Efficently linking your waist and legs can really help catapult your hand speed.
    5. In more advanced practices, you learn to seamlessly alternate between doing extremely slow and fast movements, first during solo forms, then push hands, and finally during sparring. Your chi controls your nerves and muscles like an electric light's dimmer switch, which can gradate light from almost total darkness (excruciating slow motion) to extreme brightness (lighting fast)."

I found it very interesting myself, any thoughts on the article?

7sm


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## pesilat (Apr 6, 2004)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> In the May issue of Inside Kung-Fu magazine there was an article of taiji that was pretty interesting.
> 
> "Many people are skeptical that tai chi is a martial art. "How can anyone defend himslef in slow motion?" they ask.  This is a reasonable question if people have only seen tai chi done in slow motion.
> However, the perception is inaccurate, as tai chi dose have training methods that allow practitioners to move at exceptionally fast fighting speeds. Here are five examples of how practicing tai chi's slow movements translate into fighting exceptionally fast.
> ...



Another thing about slo-mo training is that speed often hides sloppiness. By doing it slowly things like body mechanics, accuracy, positioning, balance, breathing, etc. can really be focused on and developed.

I think it's a fallacy to think that training slowly all the time can develop a good fighter. But I think slo-mo training is, in the case of Tai Chi, a good way to develop a solid foundation on which to build. It also allows Tai Chi instructors a handy filter. If a student comes in who is only interested in health aspects, then they never need to see any of the martial aspects. If a student comes in with an attitude problem then they will either get bored and leave or their attitude will adjust long before they get to any of the martial aspects.

I only trained in Tai Chi for a couple of months but I've always been a fan of slo-mo training to develop and hone the foundational attributes. As my primary instructor often says, "it must be developed before it can be tested." If it (what "it" is will vary depending on the topic at hand) is tested before it is developed then how is one to know whether a failure is due to a deficiency in "it" or due to a lack of proper development. Slo-mo training is one tool for proper development of attributes. Over time, speed and power can be increased over time - and often will do so naturally - without getting sloppy.

Mike


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## loki09789 (Apr 8, 2004)

pesilat said:
			
		

> Another thing about slo-mo training is that speed often hides sloppiness. By doing it slowly things like body mechanics, accuracy, positioning, balance, breathing, etc. can really be focused on and developed.
> 
> I think it's a fallacy to think that training slowly all the time can develop a good fighter. But I think slo-mo training is, in the case of Tai Chi, a good way to develop a solid foundation on which to build. Mike



A testimony to the legitimacy and validity of 'low and slow' as a really effective training tool is it's use in other performance/athletic/exercise venues.  In my case, skating and hockey.  I just started a few years ago, and believe you me, playing with guys/girls who where practically born on skates is humbling.  I applied my martial arts training focus/discipline and the process of technique aquisition from my Kenpo background (Form, power, focus, speed) and have developed faster than many expected.  This is not a "I am awesome" point as much as "Martial arts is the original and real sport/functional training" fitness program point.  The 'low and slow' training approach is what made the difference because when I do drive hard during games I move better and don't waste as much energy as my fellow newbies tend to do.  Not to mention the body awareness, balance, relaxation/mental control.... benefits of martial arts training.

The 'low and slow' approach really benefited my skating especially.  By skating, not for speed, but for mechanical efficiency and technical mastery (talked FREQUENTLY about by instructors of power skating programs) with little or no power in the application, I could develop a more efficient stride.  I even took a USA figure skating program with my son and fiance to get better and it was really good because the 'technique over power.'

I would even recommend this type of 'cross training' as a way to empty your cup and re-discover the 'newbie' mental state all over again.  I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of learning hockey and seeing how my martial arts training/philosophy and attitude can be applied to other venues.  Next could be either an Irish Dance class or ballet even.... boy am I in touch with my Masculinity or am I whipped by a beautiful bride.... who knows, but I am having fun


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## 7starmantis (Apr 10, 2004)

Wow, the Tia Chi board is full of life!

:ultracool 
7sm


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## pete (Apr 16, 2004)

this is also referred to as the "martial arts approach" to swimming in Total Immersion by Terry McLaughlin.


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## 7starmantis (Jun 2, 2004)

pete said:
			
		

> this is also referred to as the "martial arts approach" to swimming in Total Immersion by Terry McLaughlin.


Its funny, when used in that way, it is widely accepted, and then used for fighting it is so widely questioned.

7sm


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## MA-Caver (Jun 2, 2004)

My own studies with Tai Chi has helped at least develop a good form of movement with my other art. The benefits of doing TC goes without saying. Relaxing, soothing and just all around peaceful. 
I've noticed that my own speed is pretty good and from reading this thread I can now see where it was helped. 
Back to the park!

 :asian:


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## Tony (Jun 22, 2004)

Just read all your posts and the information I read is very interesting. It makes me want to join a tai chi class! I think I could do with it for destressing. The Martial aspect I am not too concerned with but if it helps my current training then all the better. In Kung Fu we sometimes have to perform techniques really slowly and you notice how hard it is doing a kick really slow as opposed to really fast. But there aren't many Tai Chi classes in my local area unfortunately. I might have to drive 15 or 20 miles!


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## vampyre_rat (Aug 31, 2004)

I had heard that BK Frantzis tried doing karate kata at tai chi speed and it really helped his control.

Why not try your forms really slowly, while trying to remain as relaxed and loose as possible.  You may find it increases the control of your kicks, eventually.

A lot of what tai chi is about is getting rid of unnecessary tension.  It can help your balance and let you know how stable you really are.

15-20 miles? My class is 33 miles from my flat!  It is nearer my work though.


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## pesilat (Aug 31, 2004)

Tony said:
			
		

> Just read all your posts and the information I read is very interesting. It makes me want to join a tai chi class! I think I could do with it for destressing. The Martial aspect I am not too concerned with but if it helps my current training then all the better. In Kung Fu we sometimes have to perform techniques really slowly and you notice how hard it is doing a kick really slow as opposed to really fast. But there aren't many Tai Chi classes in my local area unfortunately. I might have to drive 15 or 20 miles!



LOL. 15 or 20 miles! When I met my primary instructor, I lived 120 miles from him. For a year, I drove over every Friday night, trained with him on Saturday, then drove back on Monday morning to get to work. After a year, I quit my job, sold my trailer, and moved in with the woman I was dating - she only lived about 20 miles from my instructor (and she's my wife now).

Mike


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## Scout_379 (Aug 31, 2004)

Very creepy thing when you throw a punch during class and the instructor blocks it slowly, and easily, no matter how fast you do it. 

Slow blocks, if timed right, are very effective and really put the attacker on edge. But only with damn good timing!


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## pesilat (Aug 31, 2004)

Scout_379 said:
			
		

> Very creepy thing when you throw a punch during class and the instructor blocks it slowly, and easily, no matter how fast you do it.
> 
> Slow blocks, if timed right, are very effective and really put the attacker on edge. But only with damn good timing!



Check out this link: http://impactacademy.com/articles/show_article.php?article=Diamond_in_the_Rough

It's an article I wrote that's related to this 

Mike


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## Patrick Skerry (Sep 1, 2004)

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/video/media/taichimasters.mov


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## Empty Fist (Sep 12, 2004)

[*]Tai Chi tones and relaxes the muscles. The more relaxed and toned muscles are, the faster they can move. *Yes this is true. Tai Chi Chuan movements when executed fast can be compared to a whip being cracked.*
[*]Tai Chi trains the central nervous system to be more efficient. The nerves the give strong signals to the muscles to move faster. *Tai Chi does help the central nervous system to become more efficient (calm).*
[*]Slow-motion movement acts like a kind of weight on the muscles, which when removed, causes them to move faster. Disagree to an extent*. It definitely helps build up your leg muscles. If your upper body feels too heavy then your upper body is not relaxed and goes against one of the major principles of Tai Chi Chuan, "relaxation" or Sung.*
[*]Tai Chi gets your whole body movement coordinated. Efficiently linking your waist and legs can really help catapult your hand speed. *More related to power than speed. Power comes first then speed.*
[*]In more advanced practices, you learn to seamlessly alternate between doing extremely slow and fast movements, first during solo forms, then push hands, and finally during sparring. Your chi controls your nerves and muscles like an electric light's dimmer switch, which can gradate light from almost total darkness (excruciating slow motion) to extreme brightness (lighting fast)." *This is true especially if one practices push hands. Tai Chi Chuan applications are used at normal "practical" speed during push hands.*

*My comments are solely based on my own experiences. As always other views and comments are welcomed.

*


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## Scout_379 (Sep 12, 2004)

other than slow movements, these princples are common to all martial arts in my opinion*



More related to power than speed. Power comes first then speed

Click to expand...

 *

I disagree, power comes as a result of speed.


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## pete (Sep 12, 2004)

Scout_379 said:
			
		

> I disagree, power comes as a result of speed.


power, or force is mass x acceleration.  

there is a difference between speed and acceleration, or between speed and quickness.  speed will allow you to complete a task from start to end in less time.  acceleration, or quickness is the time it takes to put something at an optimal speed, and in the case of martial power to hit a target.

now mass is not simply pure size or weight of the person, but just the mass of the pieces of that person contributing to the power.  for example, if a guys got a massive left arm, but its just hanging there while he uses his right, well it ain't contributing to the power.

so, here's where tai chi comes in... 

the concept of yin within yang, yang within yin provides offense within defense and defense within offense... quickness is built into technique. 

proper body alignment and posture is practiced to arrive at whole body unity... one part moves, no part remains still.  this allows more of a person's mass to contribute to the power.

yes, tai chi teaches us calm awareness, which through a calm mind and relaxed yet stucturally sound physical presence. we do not burden our muscles with tension which slows them down. nor, do we desensitize our nervous systems.  this allows us to move with efficiency, and through much practice and proper instruction, will improve power through pure technique.

pete


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## Empty Fist (Sep 13, 2004)

Scout_379 said:
			
		

> other than slow movements, these princples are common to all martial arts in my opinion
> 
> I disagree, power comes as a result of speed.


One can execute a quick punch without any power. On the other hand one can execute a punch slowly with a lot of power. The key to power is stated in the following Tai Chi Chuan classic "power comes from the root of the feet, generated from the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested through the fingers"


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## Scout_379 (Sep 14, 2004)

pete said:
			
		

> power, or force is mass x acceleration...
> pete


what he said, grade eleven physics all over again:erg:


			
				Empty Fist said:
			
		

> One can execute a quick punch without any power. On the other hand one can execute a punch slowly with a lot of power. The key to power is stated in the following Tai Chi Chuan classic "power comes from the root of the feet, generated from the legs, controlled by the waist, and manifested through the fingers"


How can you apply this to real time? Other than by pushes, how can a slow attack be useful? A slow, powerful punch to me sounds like a push rather than a strike.
(just asking...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## vampyre_rat (Sep 14, 2004)

power is not force.

Work is defined as the cumulative product of force and displacement.
Power is the rate at which work is done.

Power = Force x Velocity

A very slow punch with lots of force will not necessarily hurt, but a punch with lots of force over a very short distance with some speed will.

What it means is that you can (maybe) get really close before unleashing a punch that only travels a few inches but still knocks the guy over.  All the power of a good tai chi push focused into one punch.

The taiji classic does not say that the power is generated slowly, just that it comes from the feet.  You get your whole body behind it.  Like any good boxer would.


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## BushidoUK (Sep 14, 2004)

Just to add my opinion as a karate-ka..
I find if I teach combinations e.g. jab, reverse punch, side kick more than likely students will do 3  fast techniques. However, if i teach them the 3 strikes, as 1 long flowing movement, and then over a period of time increase the speed, eventually the combination is one _very_ fast technique.

Essentially if i want to teach people to do things fast, I teach them how to do it slow...


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## Empty Fist (Sep 14, 2004)

Without proper root and body mechanics speed means nothing. One needs to sink their weight down in order to tap into the power generated by a strong root. Its the compression of ones body weight and the ground that generates the power (e.g. drawing the bow). Speed is something that is added after this to amplify and execute this power. Thats why I said first comes power (drawing of the bow - the source of the power) then comes speed (releasing of the bow). In retrospect, I should have said first comes the generation of power, then comes execution. I apologize if I caused any confusion. So much for trying to be brief and straight to the point.:erg:


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## Flatlander (Sep 17, 2004)

Stolen from an unnamed source..... and excerpted from an article W u Dang 13 Form and the 13 Tai Chi Techniques by Dr. Xianhao Cheng. 

*PENG: 
*
Peng: a song says, what is the Peng? It is like water holding a boat. First fill the Qi (chi) in your dantian. Then suspend your head as if to the heaven. 

Important points to remember are that the power in your body must be flexible as a spring. Your decision to open and close is related to a certain time/distance. 

If you listen carefully and select the right moment, it will not be difficult to even uproot a very powerful person. 

This means that peng should be like water that holds a heavy boat afloat. Your internal power should react like a flexible metal spring possessing an ability to move your opponent using minimum effort like a wave causing a ship to pitch and roll. 

However, practitioners should not confuse the expression of peng by using muscular strength. 

Peng uses a great deal of mental manifestation. The question here is how? A key point is to change the direction and amount of peng and amount of your peng power immediately based on each tiny movement of your opponent. 



*LU:*
Lu: a song says, What is LU? It is the technique to lead the aggressive incoming force to over extend. The successful application of Lu requires one to follow the direction of the incoming force deftly without resistance. 

Once the potential of the incoming force is totally used up, it will become void by itself. During the application of lu, one must maintain a stable weight center so that the opponent will not have a chance to attack you. 

A key element in the use of lu is that by following the direction of the coming force the directing of the coming force and redirecting it to a void, the expended force attacks nothing. 

It is also important to understand that lu is not based on your force but rather on the application of your internal power and ability to rotate your power field to deflect the incoming force. 

In real use, LU and Peng are normally combined together, becoming on technique. That is, once you feel the stiffness and heaviness of the incoming force, your peng immediately becomes lu. 

In real practice, this technique uses two hands, slightly touching on your opponents wrist and elbow joints and turns your waist only so your touch to people always soft even if it is powerful. 

Lu is normally 30 degrees away from you. That is, if you consider a line between you and your opponent as a base line (0 degrees), you need to dflect the coming force 30 degrees away from that line. 

Except for persons at a really high level, if the 30 degrees are not enough, you will wrap the incoming force against yourself and you will waste your power.

*JI:
*
Ji: a song says, what is Ji? It is comprised of two applications when you use it. The simple and direct Ji Jin just follows and meets the opponents Jin, and an indirectly reactive Ji Jin is like a ball bouncing back from the wall or throwing a coin on the drum. 

It means that the Ji Jin should let the incoming Jin act like a ball bouncing of the wall and a coin throw on a drum returned back. 

Ji also contains Peng. In real practice, simple Ji is used against Lu and it just follows peoples Lu and uses the waist to slightly change the opponents Jin directly towards their weight center. 

Therefore, in direct Jin we used long Jin. Indirect Ji is relatively difficult to do. It needs to first use Peng Jin to release/deflect peoples attack. 

Just at the right moment the opponent feels the danger and tries to keep his balance (while his muscle is stills tiff while attacking you), you need immediately to focus you Jin on one spot and hit him back. 

This Jin for indirect Ji is therefore short and fast. When people are changing their weight center from forward to backward, there is a moment to pull oneself back. 

No matter how powerful they are, all of their power will be cancelled by themselves at this moment. 

Therefore, it is as if they are fighting with themselves. We also cal it Jig Jin (borrow Jin from you opponent) in Taiji. Since their muscle is stiff at this specific moment, they are easily bumped back like a coin thrown on a drumhead. 

The correct posture of Ji is to hold one arm obliquely before your chest, putting fingers of the other hand on inside of the arm about one inch to the wrist. Stand with one foot forward in bow and arrow step. 

You send your Jin forward with the Yao (waist) and Kua (hip/groin area) horizontally towards your opponents weight center.
*AN:* 

An: A song says, What is An? It is like water moving. Hardness is contained inside softness, a force resembling a rapidly flowing current which is difficult to resist. 

Meeting the incoming force high you send it up, and meeting it low you send it down. 

Coordinating your internal energy like a wave, you penetrate his weak spot at the moment that you have the chance. 

The technique of An is having your two palms push forward from the waist on bow and arrow stance. 

Remember that the power is manifested in your waist. So a song also says: A nZai Yao Gong (An is a waist attack).
*CAI:* 

Cai: the song says, What is Cai? It is like a balance scale. No matter how powerful your opponent is, he/she will be weighted. 

One should hold this thought that whether a slight move like four ounces or heavy as one thousand pounds can be measured out. If one wants to know the principle, it is the lever law. 

It means Cai plays the role like a pivot in a traditional Chinese balance, which uses a lever and a pivot to balance the weight. 

It should be pointed out that Cai has a slightly different meaning from yank, which means to pull down with a jerk. 

However, conducting yank we use our muscles, whereas, for Cai our palm is still soft and the internal power is flowing out on the middle of palm and sinking down instead of applying force. In real practice, Cai always combines with Lu.

*LIE:* 

Lie: a song says, What is Lie (Pronounced Lee-ay)? It is like a rolling wheel. Placing an item on it, the item will be immediately thrown away. 

Lie also acts like a whirlpool-like Jin. Dropping a leaf on it, this leaf will sink immediately. This indicates that Lie is a rotaing Jin that possess both the feeling of being thrown away or sunk down once touched. 

In practice, Lie needs the harmonizing movement of the waist and elbow. Remember that Lie is also not the external force but the internal moving sensitivity following the opponents force.

*ZHOU: 
*
Zhou: A song says, What is Zhou? It has five elements. Identify Yin/Yang, up/down and substantial/unsubstantial. 

When correctly used, the linked movements (combined one after another) cannot be blocked and the burst elbow attack is very devastating. Once mastery is achieved, the application is never limited. 

This means that Elbow has the applications of up, down. Left, right, front, back and linked movements, etc. 

The six Jin of Peng,, Lu, Ji, An, Cai and Li are all closely related with Elbow Jin. Elbow jin needs to harmoniously combine with the above six Jin. 

In real practice, Zhou is very powerful both in push hands and free hand fighting. However, this technique is not allowed to be used in friendly competition and it seems not well known by most Taiji practitioners.

*KAO:* 

Kao: a song says, What is Kao? This technique is best described as either a shoulder or back attack. 

For instance, the technique of Diagonal Flying uses the shoulder but it also incorporates a back attack. The execution is similar to pounding something with a pestle. 

It is very important to remember that you must carefully control your weight center. If you lose your balance, Kao is useless. 

This means that once the chance appears, Kao can be either a shoulder and/or back attack. However, you must be careful to be able to control you weight center. Kao Jin also is used by combing with the above seven Jins. 

Kao is also very dangerous and seldom used in friendly Taiji competition. However, in the system of Taiji self defence, the classical poem says: Yuanquan, jin zou and tie shen kao ( use the fist on long distance, Zhou attack on close distance and Kao when you touch people). Therefore, Kao is also an important technique for a Taiji enthusiast to master.


*Conclusion:* 

The five elements, forward, backward, left gazing, right watching, and central equilibrium stand for the direction of the steps. 

However, in Taiji a step does not mean leg movement only. It also requires your combining your step with the movments of upper body and your mind as well. 

In the earthly connection of the Five Elements, Forward belongs to fire, Backward to Water, Left gazing to Wood, Right watching to Metal and Central equilibrium to Earth. 

In the Wudang Thirteen form, Forward has the powerful function of dash, which has the meaning of throng and strike (Yong and Zhuang in Chinese, which means embracing people and let him/her be uprooted, then using the forward momentum to throw him/her away.) 

Backward combines deflection and hit. Left gazing and Right watching means that one should also take care of both sides of the body to keep balance and the ability to act and react. 

At a high level, we need tot rain ourselves in a power (gi) field to take care of the two ends of the horizontal line in your cross. 

In doing Taiji form, we have a cross to measure the body weight center in which a vertical line goes through your head down to the earth and a horizontal line goes through your weight center, releasing to both sides. 

In the form, the last two techniques are used to train the expression of ones side energy field to deflect the opponent. 

Central equilibrium belongs to Earth in Taiji theory and therefore it has decisive meaning since it is the mother of the other elements. 

In practicing Taiji either for longevity or self defence, we have to know that although the way of inside is quite different for these two purposes, maintaining your balance is essential to both. 

In Taiji, we always say that the body needs to keep central equilibrium and weight center smoothed out. All the aforementioned Jin Fa (the way of releasing Jin are released from your center and come back to you center. 

This is so called Kai (open) and He (close) in Taiji. In all martial art, a key role is to control peoples center but relax your own. 

Finally, it is worthwhile to know that once we are familiar with the above eight techniques and five elements, we will organically and subconsciously combine them together so that the expression of all the techniques and elements are incorporated. 

When this occurs, people may see your techniques are not only of those mentioned but your opponent will feel/experience that they have all the above techniques. 

End of article by Dr. Xianhao Cheng in Tai Chi Magazine Vol. 28 No. 2. 
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I really enjoyed the article.  Not sure if it really belongs in this thread or not, but it does illustrate some of the principles being discussed.


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## chi-ca (Sep 18, 2004)

Several of you have mentioned that Taiji trains the nervous system to be more efficient.  Can you elaborate on this point?


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