# Trouble parents



## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2008)

How and what proceedures does your school have in place with trouble causing parents. Over the years we have had our share like other schools but I wanted to be able to put down in writing what steps can be and will be in use when the stituation arises. Thanks for all your help.


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## girlbug2 (Aug 9, 2008)

In my current school I have yet to notice a situation with trouble parents. Back when I was studying Kenpo however I recall an incident where a mom started going off just outside the doors at someone else's kid over what turned out to be a misunderstanding anyway. Before anybody else could react the assistant instructor was out there in a flash and got between them to diffuse the situation and protect the kid. The mom who had been yelling backed off and went inside after yelling a parting shot at the kid's mom.

The next day after classes our sensei had a private chat with the yelling parent and basically told her that her daughter was welcome anytime at the dojo but that the mom could not be the one to bring her.  Later it was found out that that mom got very upset and threatened to beat up sensei! ...But obviously didn't. That was the last anybody at our school saw or heard from that family. A shame, because the little girl had been doing very well and getting along with everybody.

That "trouble mom" in particular had been a problem in other ways before the yelling incident; she had a tendency to be a nasty gossip and was generally very negative. I suspected mental problems personally. 

After thinking about how sensei handled it, I think he had been very wise in making it clear that it was that specific mom's behavior and not her child's that was being addressed, therefore it was only the mom who was "banished". I saw the dad come very often to practices, so in theory he could have been the parent to bring his daughter instead, but apparently it was too much of an ego blow for the mom to accept those terms, or perhaps she cooled down later and couldn't bring herself face anybody there in light of her own bad behavior. So, sensei lost that family's business over it, but honestly, if he hadn't banished that mom, he would have lost mine not long after, and possibly others'. IMO he was correct to weed out the bad apple from the barrel so to speak.

I don't believe any of this was prescribed in writing, just the good instincts of how to handle situations on a case by case basis. Kind of like reacting to one's sparring partner who moves without warning; you have to have a good head to keep your balance and still keep adapting to the changing situation.


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## stickarts (Aug 9, 2008)

It depends upon the seriousness of the trouble. If it is minor, then any instructor can politely let them know what the problem is and what our expectations are. If the problem continues or worsens, then I speak with them and the next step after that would be I "ask" them to check out other schools if the problem is bad enough. 
If it's more serious right from the start, I will handle it from the start. Few problems get that far because it gets generally known that I am the last stop before showing them the door.  Most problems are resolved but on a few occaisions I have recomended they find another school, for example if they get abusive toward any of my staff.


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## TallAdam85 (Aug 9, 2008)

i have seen sometimes at tournaments parents get pissed and then next event comes up there kid is wearing a different schools uniform well is it worth having a bad apple in the group? but do you realy want to lose a good kid due to a angry parent ? thats the double edge sword


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## jks9199 (Aug 9, 2008)

What sort of "trouble parents?"  Are we talking someone who always brings their kid to class 5 minutes late or picks them up late -- or someone who walks onto the training floor, and begins berating either their kid or another kid over some perceived failing?  Someone who just doesn't seem to support their kid, bringing 'em but not really caring about their kid's activities or supporting the school's events like tournaments?  Or, worst, someone whom you think or even see literally abusing their kid?


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## terryl965 (Aug 9, 2008)

I have one that just start crap everytime she is in the school with other parents and my other instructor. When I am there not much but when I am gone she turns into the monster from hell.


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## Lynne (Aug 9, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I have one that just start crap everytime she is in the school with other parents and my other instructor. When I am there not much but when I am gone she turns into the monster from hell.


 I'm not a school owner of course, but I can tell you this, Terry.  The news gets around and it can cause students to be on edge.  You might need to sacrifice the one student.  I guarantee you that your students are upset that one of their instructors is being disrespected.  It will cause a dark cloud to hang over the dojang.

I can speak from experience.  You might remember I made a post about a woman who cursed out the instructor, including giving him the middle finger, when her son didn't pass.  All the students who witnessed the event were very upset, mainly because one of our instructors had been direspected.

Fortunately, the mother who was a green belt, and unfortunately, her son, were both expelled.  But it was a huge relief to the student body.

Announcements were made to classes the next week to explain exactly what happened.  That was brilliant. It stopped gossip, etc.

I wouldn't put up with it.   Your students and their parents don't deserve it  Your instructors don't deserve it.  And I know you don't.


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## stickarts (Aug 10, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> I have one that just start crap everytime she is in the school with other parents and my other instructor. When I am there not much but when I am gone she turns into the monster from hell.


 
Clients like that start to affect other clients and I deal with them quickly before they can cause too much damage. I hate to lose a client but better to lose one than to wait for them to cause trouble with other clients by being negative. The sad thing is that often the student is fine, its the parent that is the trouble and you don't want the student to suffer from the parents bad behavior.


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## theletch1 (Aug 10, 2008)

As the two previous posters have stated, Terry, that type of parent is a cancer to the student body.  My first school was rife with parents (all mothers ironically) that enjoyed the gossip and drama from the sidelines.  It got to a point that very few people that started training there ever continued for very long.  This affected both the junior and adult ranks.  Eventually, the crap got so deep that even though I was tagged for testing to brown that I left.  I just couldn't get myself to go train with all that drama.  It didn't help any that the head instructor was as much addicted to the drama as the parents on the sidelines.   Deal with this woman quickly.  If that means losing a single student then so be it.  It's better than losing most of your students.  Give her a warning that her behavior will not be tolerated.  If she continues boot her.  You still have the right to refuse service to anyone you choose.


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## terryl965 (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks everybody that is what I thought I should do, feel sorry for the teenager but the mom is a cancer.


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## Laurentkd (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree with what everyone says here.
Another idea (for the future) is to post some sort of "visitor expectations".  We are working on a set currently at my school.  Basically some nice little explanation that "So that our students can have a beneficial and enjoyable training session we ask that all visitors please follow these guidelines.  If a visitor's behavior becomes distributive we will ask the visitor to leave.  The safety, well-being, and class-enjoyment of our students is our top priority." (Or something like that). And then we have things such as: turn cell phones to silent.  keep visiting quiet.  no coaching from the sidelines (keep all comments positive). etc. 
We don't have it finished yet, but I think it will really help.  We don't have any problems like you do right now, but hopefully this will nip such things in the bud.


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## jks9199 (Aug 10, 2008)

Terry, 
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what she's doing.  It's clear that she's disrupting the classes, and the harmony of the school.  It's not clear what she's doing... and she's apparently not doing it when you're there.  Is it possible that she's not really the problem -- but that your assistant instructors are somehow not carrying your authority over?  (I realize I'm playing devil's advocate here...)  Or doing things so different that it's got her convinced their wrong?

But, once you've ruled out failings on your side -- I agree.  At a minimum -- she can't be in the school during classes without your express permission.  You're a private business, on private property, as I recall, so you can control who's there.  If you're in a community center or the Y or something like that, it may be harder.  You'll need to get the support of the facility.  And if that's not enough, you'll have to lose the student.

I would suggest that, for the future, you do write up some sort of "code of parent conduct" just like some of the youth sports leagues have had to do.  It'll make it clear what's expected up front, and it'll probably get you more support from other parents.


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## terryl965 (Aug 10, 2008)

jks the assistance instructor would be Boricuatkd my wife, the main problem is walking on the floor to make sure her child is alright after every drill is done. When she is ask to please stop she goes over and start yelling at other parents about how unfair this is and this place is ****** and Yolanda is a dumbass, you know typicla behavior problems for a 6 year old not someone in her thirtys. We have video camera's up and she knows this, so it does not matter to her. Maybe she just does not like my wife who knows but the diosruptions are too frequent when I am gone for ant reason.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 10, 2008)

I am jumping ahead and just posting this with out reading the rest of the thread first.
Parents who interfere with the workout of the students will be asked to leave the school for the remainder of the class.  Continued interference will result from the parent not being allowed to view the class and/or the expulsion of the student from the school.
Parents who step onto the floor unasked will be asked to leave
Parents who have questions on what is done in class or why something is done should address the instructor before or after the class in a dignified and respectful manner
ANY parent heard encouraging there child to injure another student will be asked to leave and not come back.


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## jks9199 (Aug 10, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> jks the assistance instructor would be Boricuatkd my wife, the main problem is walking on the floor to make sure her child is alright after every drill is done. When she is ask to please stop she goes over and start yelling at other parents about how unfair this is and this place is ****** and Yolanda is a dumbass, you know typicla behavior problems for a 6 year old not someone in her thirtys. We have video camera's up and she knows this, so it does not matter to her. Maybe she just does not like my wife who knows but the diosruptions are too frequent when I am gone for ant reason.


Thanks for the clarification.

I think it's easy, now.  Next time she walks on the floor, she is "given an invitation to the world."  It's explained to her that if it happens again, she won't be permitted in the school during her child's classes because she's disrupting not only her child's training - but everyone else's, too.  Might be a good idea to explain this publicly in front of the other parents.  (Object lesson... and you just might get them to help with her.)

Another thing I might consider is that, as long as anyone not an invited guest to the training floor or a student/instructor is on the floor, training stops.  All the students sit down, in ranks, and you wait.  Tell the person and the class that you'd love to get back to training... when the floor is safe and the intruder is in the observation area.  Again -- this might recruit the other parents and the student himself in keeping mom where she belongs.

(I suspect she feels she can get away with it with your wife -- but not you.  It's possible that differences in personality or teaching style let this woman think it was OK... or simply that she'll obey you, but not your wife, either because she's a woman or because she's simply "an assistant".  A buddy of mine got a big laugh out of a situation like that once when he was training a rookie.  He has "FIELD TRAINING OFFICER" on his nameplate, since he is an FTO.  He was with a very new rookie, and the complainant insisted on speaking to the rook, because they weren't in training!)


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## jumpin_12 (Sep 1, 2008)

Just put down your rules in the actual contract they sign for classes and you are all set.  Any chronic problems with parents is in fact cancer.  Cut it off immediately and dont let it spread.  You'll spend 90% of your time dealing with the problematic ones that will never be happy anyway, meanwhile neglecting the entire rest of your school of GOOD students and parents.  Focus on the positive students, get rid of problems.  Obviously the severity of the problem makes a difference.  I dont tolerate people yelling at me or my staff, thats the quickest way to get booted, haha.


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## Lynne (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi Master Terry,

Were you able to resolve this conflict?  Best wishes to you.

Lynne


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## IcemanSK (Sep 25, 2008)

Laurentkd said:


> I agree with what everyone says here.
> Another idea (for the future) is to post some sort of "visitor expectations". We are working on a set currently at my school. Basically some nice little explanation that "So that our students can have a beneficial and enjoyable training session we ask that all visitors please follow these guidelines. If a visitor's behavior becomes distributive we will ask the visitor to leave. The safety, well-being, and class-enjoyment of our students is our top priority." (Or something like that). And then we have things such as: turn cell phones to silent. keep visiting quiet. no coaching from the sidelines (keep all comments positive). etc.
> We don't have it finished yet, but I think it will really help. We don't have any problems like you do right now, but hopefully this will nip such things in the bud.


 
I like the idea of using "vistor". That will cover anyone who shows up. Go thought!


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## terryl965 (Sep 25, 2008)

Lynne said:


> Hi Master Terry,
> 
> Were you able to resolve this conflict? Best wishes to you.
> 
> Lynne


 
Yes Lynne we came to a great understanding they went to another school, it was best for both of us. I even set up the meeting with the other instructor so there was no hard feelings.


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## Lynne (Sep 29, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Yes Lynne we came to a great understanding they went to another school, it was best for both of us. I even set up the meeting with the other instructor so there was no hard feelings.


 Good for you!  What a relief, I'm sure.


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## grydth (Sep 29, 2008)

Not to take issue with any specific person here, but this is awfully one sided. I don't see any parent stepping up, so I will. 

For the record, I am both a long time practitioner and the parent of 2 girls who are red and brown belts in goju-ryu karate. We have a great dojo. Not counting all the extras, I pay in over 2k a year to the dojo, and I've been doing that for over 4 years. To me, that makes me a "respected long term customer", not a "trouble parent" when I have a concern. I deserve better treatment than the drunken bum who weaves in and throws up in the doorway.

One way to avoid "trouble parents" is to walk the walk yourselves. We were at a dojo where questionable contracts were to be required  - - -"NO EXCEPTIONS" - - -  only to have me walk in when the sensei was taking a cash payment from somebody else. Both of us quit.

I was at a tournament where 2 judges were openly coaching my daughter's opponent on the floor before the match - she came from their school. My daughter won the trophy anyway, but came off asking," Why did the judges want the other girl to win?"  Did they hear from me? You bet! "Trouble parent"???  No, corrupt promoter and judges! 

The ultimate authority over my kids' health and safety is me. Get used to that. I have pulled my kids off the floor when I saw them hurt. Call me a "trouble parent", but there's no sense turning a minor injury into a major one by not getting it prompt and proper care and rest.

If you're going to have contact sparring, then ref it right. If you think any good dad is going to sit there and watch their child be injured by fouls delivered by thugs, then you do not know "good parenting" from "trouble parenting".  You are supposed to protect those kids - but if you clearly can't be bothered to, don't expect a good and caring father to just sit by. The last time it happened, though, I didn't need to intervene. After 3 blatant fouls, my daughter knocked the offender out.

So folks, before you put it all on the parents - who pay your salary - I'd say make sure your own houses are in order.


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## terryl965 (Sep 29, 2008)

OK Here is the problem again so we are all clear on this, it is bolded by the way. 
*jks the assistance instructor would be Boricuatkd my wife, the main problem is walking on the floor to make sure her child is alright after every drill is done. When she is ask to please stop she goes over and start yelling at other parents about how unfair this is and this place is ****** and Yolanda is a dumbass, you know typicla behavior problems for a 6 year old not someone in her thirtys. We have video camera's up and she knows this, so it does not matter to her. Maybe she just does not like my wife who knows but the diosruptions are too frequent when I am gone for ant reason.*

grydth let me assure you we have no contracts do not believe in them and I understand your views as a parent, I am one myself, but when a parent steps onto the mat every single day bitching and mourning about every single kick punch sit up or line drills, you have to put your foot down as a school owner. The girl has never been hurt thank god but mom is just a *****, sorry to say. She believe her daughter can tell us when she will run walk kick and punch and if you are in a school that is not how it works. The instructor has the right to make lesson plans for every single student remember you came here to get instruction not the other way around.


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## grydth (Sep 29, 2008)

Terry, no fair observer could fault you in the specific instance. There are some people one cannot do business with.... at least without being driven crazy. This woman was one.

But I sensed as the thread grew, there was a parental beat down in progress. There are sometimes widely different views from either side of the visitors area. 

I think school proprietors are best served by ejecting nutty and unreasonable people.... and also by keeping their own conduct beyond reproach. That includes respecting the views and inquiries of those who pay them quite substantial sums of money. Martial arts school proprietors, as with every other successful business, should respect the consumer and the student.... I know you do.


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## terryl965 (Sep 29, 2008)

grydth said:


> Terry, no fair observer could fault you in the specific instance. There are some people one cannot do business with.... at least without being driven crazy. This woman was one.
> 
> But I sensed as the thread grew, there was a parental beat down in progress. There are sometimes widely different views from either side of the visitors area.
> 
> I think school proprietors are best served by ejecting nutty and unreasonable people.... and also by keeping their own conduct beyond reproach. That includes respecting the views and inquiries of those who pay them quite substantial sums of money. Martial arts school proprietors, as with every other successful business, should respect the consumer and the student.... I know you do.


 

Thank you sir was just making sure. I would have love to keep the child they had the look of a champion. Hopefully the other school will be better for the mom.


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