# Weight Lifting



## jfarnsworth (Jan 23, 2003)

For everyone here that is doing some kind of weight training in the Health section I'm trying to keep track of different type work out routines. I'm posting this here since I wasn't sure if everyone was going into the health section. All of the comments and help is welcome.:asian:


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## Matt Stone (Jan 23, 2003)

Comrade Pavel Tsatsouline's Russian kettlebell training!!!

Comrade Pavel Tsatsouline's Bulletproof Abs training!!!

Comrade Pavel Tsatsouline's Relax into Stretch training!!!

Did I happen to mention Comrade Pavel Tsatsouline at all...?  

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## MartialArtist (Jan 23, 2003)

Powerlifting and Olympic lifting is the best for MA and most sports.

Powerlifting - You gain strength without gaining a lot of mass, which is the opposite of bodybuilding where they gain mass and a little strength.

Olympic Lifting - Speed strength, otherwise known as explosiveness.

For training articles, go to drsquat.com and bodybuilding.com (has a lot of articles on Olympic lifting, powerlifting, and bodybuilding).


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## bob919 (Jan 24, 2003)

body builders do get alot of strength but not as much power as power lifters cause they get slower, although i used to be a bodybuilder and i'm 250lbs but i am flexible and faster than almost anyone i know but thats cause i train very hard and i have begun lifting weights faster and i punch with 10kg weights to increase punching speed.

anyway; when you lift, lift fast but not too fast about a 1 count up and 2 down then after you have done about 3 sets of 4-8 do two more sets with lighter weights and move them real fastbut dont tryit with big weights or your back.

it is very important to train speed as much as you weight train, the extra strength from weight lifting can improve your speed but you need to train it to be fast


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## Elfan (Jan 24, 2003)

Once a week:

- 20 rep squats
- Super Slow Dips
- Super Slow Pull downs


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## Mike Clarke (Jan 24, 2003)

In Okinawan karate [naha-te tradution mostly], we have hojo-undo, supplementary training which consists of lifting different weights and manipulating them. We also have tools we 'hit' too build up a sense of penetration and impact.

The most common tools are; Makiwara, chi-ishi, gami, tan, kongoken, ishi-sashi, kakite-bikei, tou and the ude-kite.

There are many others besides these. A search on yahoo should pull up a few pages on this subject if you're interested? and let you see the tools mentioned.

Regards, 
Mike.


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## RyuShiKan (Jan 25, 2003)

Mike thats true most Goju dojo have a lot of neat stuff to lift. I saw a photo of my teachers dojo back in the 1960s and there was a lot of stuff like you mentioned.
It is one of the many differences between Okinawan Karate and Tokyo Karate..most dojo dont have weight training tools.

I just started teaching on Camp Zama and as Yiliquan 1 can tell you they have a weight room that most professional American football teams would be jealous of.........and I love it!


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## ace (Jan 25, 2003)

Are U kidding Me.

What about Ken Shamrock,Mark Colman,Mark Kerr
Kevin Randalman.

All These Guy's do Body Building,Martial Arts---MMA/NHB


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## bob919 (Jan 25, 2003)

bodybuilders do have strength  ut the often lack speed however if they train properly they actually have the tools to be faster than other people the only problem is that lo0ts of them train moving weights slowly but they need to supplement this with fast reps with a much small weight then they can become fast and strong (powerful)


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 27, 2003)

I put up another couple of work out routines in the health section if anyone is interested in talking about it.


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## MartialArtist (Jan 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Are U kidding Me.
> 
> What about Ken Shamrock,Mark Colman,Mark Kerr
> ...


Ken Shamrock technically doesn't do bodybuilding at all.

He powerbuils, meaning his goal is a hybrid of strength and mass.

And none of the above train like a bodybuilder nor eat like a bodybuilder.  They are athletes, bodybuilders are a different type of athlete where they aren't judged on performance (not unless you take posing as performance).  Posing takes grace, but bodybuilders are the weakest and most exhuasted on competition day.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=SportsTraining

The average bench press of a IFBB professional bodybuilder is 450 pounds.  The average benchpress of a professional deadlifter is 600.


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## MartialArtist (Jan 27, 2003)

Squat Average for pro powerlifters: 900-1000+
Squat Average for IFBB bodybuilders: 700

Deadlift Average for pro powerlifters: 900+
Deadlift Average for IFBB bodybuilders: 650


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## ace (Jan 27, 2003)

Taken From 1on1 With Mark Colmen
I Eat Like a Body Builder up to 6  Times a Day
I eat up to 5,000 Calories Per Day.

On Body Building
I try to do it Fast & Heavy. I don't Waste Much Time
Between sets. I concentrate on My Body Building
& Try & Be Dead Tierd at the End.
The Excersises are Body Building 101,BenchPress,Squat
Dead Lift Barebell curl, dumb bell press.\
I Look For Strenth & Power so i don't waste my time with 
isolation movements.
_____________________________________________________
Ken Shamrock I've been Body Building since i was 13
Years old. I Bench Press do the clean & or Dead Lift.
Usually I start with 225 pounds & end with 240
I begin with 4 sets of 5 to 10.
_______________________________________________--

Mark Kerr & Mark Colmen are Training Partners
Ken Shamrock trains wit Dan Freeman, a former AAU Mr. California


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## ace (Jan 27, 2003)

Note he is all so Part of the Hammer House
And Trains With Colmen.


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## MartialArtist (Jan 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *Taken From 1on1 With Mark Colmen
> I Eat Like a Body Builder up to 6  Times a Day
> I eat up to 5,000 Calories Per Day.
> ...


So they do bodybuild.

However, it is not the bodybuilding in its true form.

Bodybuilders take in over 8000 calories, don't clean, and none of them do isolation movements.

However, what Coleman is doing by removing rest periods is just slowing down his gains.

Ken Shamrock seems more like the bodybuilder type, but his training program is optimized for mass, not for strength.


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## fissure (Jan 27, 2003)

Bench Press, Deadlifts and Squats are the competition lifts for Powerlifting.
Obviously they are also included in bobybuilding.The difference is the weight/rep scheme that is used, and wether they are the focus of training or mearly a part of it - no more or less important that other lifts that are used.
It is interesting to note that Coleman says specifically that he does no isolation movements. Bodybuilders use many isolation movement in their routines, whilst powerlifters concentrate on the 3 competition lifts plus compound assistance movements. The line between Powerlifting and Bodybuilding have been skewed since Dorian Yates dominated Mr. Olympia competition using a modified Powerlifting routine.
Basically one has to look at the results that are trying to be attained to determine which category you fit into. If you are lifting to gain size, get ripped and look "buff" you're a bodybuilder. If you're only concern is gaining low rep (even single rep) strength then you're a Powerlifter.


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## ace (Jan 28, 2003)

As was posted by others That 
1 they were not & to Bodybuilders have no strenth.


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## fissure (Jan 28, 2003)

I wasn't directing my post at you Ace, merely stating the difference between the to forms of lifting.
Anyone who lifts weight with intensity and dedication will become stronger. Martial Artist is correct in stating that Powerlifters are in general much stronger than bodybuilders. I think you yourself Ace stated that Shamrock used 225-240 lb. for benches for 5-10 reps. This seems way to light for a man 200+ lb. of solid muscle, but whatever. A powerlifter of his size will be a couple hundred pounds over that weight.
In reality the discussion is pointless, as we are talking about people (ourselves included) who are using weight training to benefit our MA. Lifting is a tool used toward another purpose, not and end unto itself as is the case with true bodybuilders/powerlifters.
For the last 1 1/2 yrs I have scaled back my weight lifting to basics-benches, deadlifts,leg press,ect., and have been focusing on grip/wrist/forearm training. I have never had a body part respond as quickly or consistently as these areas have. Does anyone else devote time to this kind of endeavor?


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## bob919 (Jan 28, 2003)

whether you do powerlifting or body building learn to do it fast with lighter weights as well as i and heavy


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## MartialArtist (Jan 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *As was posted by others That
> 1 they were not & to Bodybuilders have no strenth. *


Bodybuilders are stronger than people who don't lift.  But they can't even compare with powerlifters in strength.

Bodybuilders are stronger than the average man
They are weaker than powerlifters
They are bigger than powerlifters

Powerlifters are stronger than bodybuilders
Powerlifters are bigger than the normal man


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## Cthulhu (Jan 29, 2003)

I used to lift weights...















...but they're too heavy.



Cthulhu


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## ace (Jan 29, 2003)

I Never Said They Were.
What was said was That they Don't have Strenth
Which is Bull.

And They There are Several Body Builders
In the Martial arts Who are Verry Strong

Such as Shamrock,Colmen,Randalmen & Kerr
U said they Were not,Yet They Say they are.
Thats a No Brainer to me.
:asian:


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## MartialArtist (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ace _
> *I Never Said They Were.
> What was said was That they Don't have Strenth
> Which is Bull.
> ...





> Powerlifting and Olympic lifting is the best for MA and most sports.
> 
> Powerlifting - You gain strength without gaining a lot of mass, which is the opposite of bodybuilding where they gain mass and a little strength.
> 
> ...





> Ken Shamrock technically doesn't do bodybuilding at all.
> 
> He powerbuils, meaning his goal is a hybrid of strength and mass.
> 
> ...


That's what I said.

Relatively, bodybuilders are not strong at all, I do agree with that.  Shamrock doesn't even compare with bodybuilders in his lifts nonetheless powerlifters.  He's much stronger than the normal man, benching over 400, and squatting 600, but I don't see strength one of his strengths.  In reality, strength isn't the biggest factor in a fight, nor a sport fight.  Tank Abbot is a beast, but...


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