# Practical approach to achieving splits



## tkdwarrior (Apr 2, 2015)




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## Transk53 (Apr 2, 2015)

So many disclaimers I think makes this makes this individual


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## tshadowchaser (Apr 2, 2015)

for me the best way of achieving a split is to watch someone else do it smile, nod and walk away

At 20 it was n o problem at 40 it started to hurt at 60 it was not going to happen


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## RTKDCMB (Apr 3, 2015)

From one of our Regional Master Instructors:


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## Buka (Apr 3, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


>



Hogwash.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 3, 2015)

PNF is a great tool when applied correctly along with other stretching and strength building methods. Applied with passive knees as in the OP video, it's asking for a knee injury


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 3, 2015)

Have you tried it and you speak so harshly? And is thst the norm in your martial art gym to talk like that?


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## Transk53 (Apr 3, 2015)

Check out the vids that the Ginger Ninja Trickster makes. May give a comparison


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## Gnarlie (Apr 3, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> Have you tried it and you speak so harshly? And is thst the norm in your martial art gym to talk like that?



Who is this question addressed to?


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## Buka (Apr 3, 2015)

Like Gnarlie, I'm not sure who the question was addressed to, nor how the term "harsh" applies. There was no offense meant, I'm sure. If it's in response to my use of the word "hogwash", perhaps there's some confusion.

Proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation has been around since the 1940's. It's been used in fitness/sports training for many decades and is used in Physical Therapy regularly. I've been using it as one of many teaching tools concerning flexibility training in Martial Arts since the early eighties and also taught many aspects of it in a Physical Therapy Center. It works really well in the right circumstances.

But to allude to it in a "less than four months" time frame to achieve full splits is irresponsible _at best_. And if that time frame was used in _my_ Martial Art Gym - yep, there would be cries of Hogwash, even from the peanut gallery. But the use of hogwash would be nonsensical, just as the time frame is.


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## Earl Weiss (Apr 3, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> for me the best way of achieving a split is to watch someone else do it smile, nod and walk away
> 
> At 20 it was n o problem at 40 it started to hurt at 60 it was not going to happen



One thing no one told me, for those north of 40 is that there can be a calcification buildup or joint deterioration that limits range of motion.   Attempting to increase the range only jams the surfaces of the bones harder together.  Absent surgery this cannot be rectified, and often the surgery involves removing some parts and replacing with artificail ones that may have limitations although watching Bill Wallace, you know that great things can still be possible.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Apr 3, 2015)

Buka said:


> But to allude to it in a "less than four months" time frame to achieve full splits is irresponsible _at best_. And if that time frame was used in _my_ Martial Art Gym - yep, there would be cries of Hogwash, even from the peanut gallery.



I think of the splits in the same light as bench pressing 250 pounds.  Some can do it with no training, others will never be able to do it, and perhaps a good percentage could do it with months/years of training.  But the "full splits in x days!" is selling a dream, IMO.


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## Scotty P (Apr 3, 2015)

I've been stretching regularly, pretty much every other day for a few years now with little gain and I'm frustrated.  I'm 52 now so I'm sure age has something to do with it but I'm still determined to gain flexibility.  I'm going to give this a shot and hope it helps.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 3, 2015)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I think of the splits in the same light as bench pressing 250 pounds.  Some can do it with no training, others will never be able to do it, and perhaps a good percentage could do it with months/years of training.  But the "full splits in x days!" is selling a dream, IMO.



I agree. For those interested in PNF along with strength training Tom Kurz's 'Stretching Scientifically' and Sang Hanho Kim's 'Ultimate Flexibility' are a great start. Some of the advice in the OP video is potentially dangerous, and I would suggest doing your own research into balanced stretching and strength routines to prevent setting yourself back months in training through injury.


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## Tez3 (Apr 3, 2015)

Gwai Lo Dan said:


> I think of the splits in the same light as bench pressing 250 pounds.  Some can do it with no training, others will never be able to do it, and perhaps a good percentage could do it with months/years of training.  But the "full splits in x days!" is selling a dream, IMO.




I couldn't do the splits as a child never mind as an adult, my daughter just went down into splits easily as a child and can still do it at 29. I can't say it's ever hampered me not being to do the splits, I don't think about it until something like the OP.


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## Transk53 (Apr 3, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I couldn't do the splits as a child never mind as an adult, my daughter just went down into splits easily as a child and can still do it at 29. I can't say it's ever hampered me not being to do the splits, I don't think about it until something like the OP.



Never knew why it mattered anyway. A gymnast yes


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 4, 2015)

Ok its like this i got the video off youtube and it seems to be a practical approach for flexibility. I have done the research and well aware that it works or will at least result in a significant improvement of flexibility, for results may actually vary from person to person. Now if you do not believe in it fine with me if not then fine with me too, but commenting that it is "hogwash" is disrespectful. 

If you don't like it just say so, if you have something to add or have a concern just say so. Oh by the way this method is not recommended for those who are 15 years old below, and you must warm up at least 5 minutes before you do these. If it is your first time, do not contract or pinch the floor at maximum effort or do it for the whole 30 seconds, 10 seconds will do for starters, listen to your body. Best done on alternating days. This in itself is already a work out.

Thank you for the good comments and for the others thank you too.


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## Tez3 (Apr 4, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> Ok its like this i got the video off youtube and it seems to be a practical approach for flexibility. I have done the research and well aware that it works or will at least result in a significant improvement of flexibility, for results may actually vary from person to person. Now if you do not believe in it fine with me if not then fine with me too, but commenting that it is "hogwash" is disrespectful.
> 
> If you don't like it just say so, if you have something to add or have a concern just say so. Oh by the way this method is not recommended for those who are 15 years old below, and you must warm up at least 5 minutes before you do these. If it is your first time, do not contract or pinch the floor at maximum effort or do it for the whole 30 seconds, 10 seconds will do for starters, listen to your body. Best done on alternating days. This in itself is already a work out.
> 
> Thank you for the good comments and for the others thank you too.




You've tried this from the video not anything else and it works within the timeframe given?


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 4, 2015)

Way before this video i had a book and video about isometric stretching, still have it now, took me around three months following the method there. Full side and front splits then. When I saw this i just thought that this was a more practcal application of the same method


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## Tez3 (Apr 4, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> Way before this video i had a book and video about isometric stretching, still have it now, took me around three months following the method there. Full side and front splits then. When I saw this i just thought that this was a more practcal application of the same method




You may need to actually try it before recommending it though!


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 4, 2015)

As i said it is the same.


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## Transk53 (Apr 4, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> As i said it is the same.



Could you PM me the title of the book. Had one many moons ago.


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## Buka (Apr 4, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> Ok its like this i got the video off youtube and it seems to be a practical approach for flexibility. I have done the research and well aware that it works or will at least result in a significant improvement of flexibility, for results may actually vary from person to person. Now if you do not believe in it fine with me if not then fine with me too, but commenting that it is "hogwash" is disrespectful.
> 
> If you don't like it just say so, if you have something to add or have a concern just say so. Oh by the way this method is not recommended for those who are 15 years old below, and you must warm up at least 5 minutes before you do these. If it is your first time, do not contract or pinch the floor at maximum effort or do it for the whole 30 seconds, 10 seconds will do for starters, listen to your body. Best done on alternating days. This in itself is already a work out.
> 
> Thank you for the good comments and for the others thank you too.



Sincere apologies for any disrespect.


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 4, 2015)

Apology accepted, the book is isometric srtretching by thomasz kurz, stadion enterprises.


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## Transk53 (Apr 4, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> Apology accepted, the book is isometric srtretching by thomasz kurz, stadion enterprises.



Cool and thanks.


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## Transk53 (Apr 4, 2015)

Tom Kurz s Weblog Tom Kurz on sports training and exercise

This the same geezer?


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## Gnarlie (Apr 4, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Tom Kurz s Weblog Tom Kurz on sports training and exercise
> 
> This the same geezer?


Yes it is. He has a number of books an blog posts on the topic. He is also frequently available online for Q and A sessions.


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## Transk53 (Apr 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Yes it is. He has a number of books an blog posts on the topic. He is also frequently available online for Q and A sessions.



Just had a glance through, but will have a better look later. Seems like a bit of an evangelist on it as it were.


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## Gwai Lo Dan (Apr 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Yes it is. He has a number of books an blog posts on the topic. He is also frequently available online for Q and A sessions.


Just had a quick look and saw on the video "...whatever your age or flexibility level.  In just a few weeks you'll perform splits..."  

This is the type of "splits in x days" promises that I mentioned in a post above and disagree with.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 4, 2015)

He is a bit of an evangelist, he writes with the confidence of a much younger man, and his claims are somewhat misleading in my experience. Although his methods usually bring improvement, I agree with GLD that setting a time limit on it is nonsense because everyone is different.

Pavel Tsatsouline also has some great stuff on stretching.

My experience is, regardless of how much you research or read, there is nothing as effective as a regular daily routine and listening to what your body is telling you.

Also for higher kicking and deeper stances, understanding posture is just as important as great flexibility.


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## Dinkydoo (Apr 4, 2015)

+1 for Stretching Scientifically. A poster recommended it to me on another forum a few years ago and I have used it to build my own personal stretching schedule - which does involve some PNF. 
I've always struggled a bit with my flexibility and it'll come as no surprise that I have to work pretty hard at it, consistently, to be able to kick at my head height in sparring. Problem is, my height is a little lower than average so I need to get more flexible in order to kick at their head height! 

My stretching plan is as follows: 

Dynamic Stretching twice per day (once in the morning and then again before training)

Relaxed stretching after training twice per week

PNF stretching after training twice per week

I'd recommend it, and I get some pretty good results for what I'm looking for but I'm not great to sticking to it every day for much longer than 2 - 3 weeks at a time. If I did that then I'd imagine the results would be better.

For kicks as good as you'd expect from a TKD practitioner, you'd probably want to work on some static-active stuff too. 

They say that static flexibility isn't as important as dynamic flexibility for kicking, and whilst that may be true, I find my kicks are much better when I work on static stretches every week too.


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 5, 2015)

I did say listen to your body right? And their methods do work right? Nowhere did i say that you just sit there and magically you will be able to do it? Did i say anything like that? Oh yes the title of the book is stretching scientifically. Sorry that one i admit my mistake.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 5, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> I did say listen to your body right? And their methods do work right? Nowhere did i say that you just sit there and magically you will be able to do it? Did i say anything like that? Oh yes the title of the book is stretching scientifically. Sorry that one i admit my mistake.


You didn't say it, but the video implied it. We're offering constructive opinions on the video and other people's material on stretching. You seem a little defensive, nobody is attacking you here.


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## Transk53 (Apr 5, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> I did say listen to your body right? And their methods do work right? Nowhere did i say that you just sit there and magically you will be able to do it? Did i say anything like that? Oh yes the title of the book is stretching scientifically. Sorry that one i admit my mistake.



Have you had one Easter egg too many today?


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 5, 2015)

That is why i clarfied my point. Anyway I said what wanted to say already.


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## Tez3 (Apr 5, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> I did say listen to your body right? And their methods do work right? Nowhere did i say that you just sit there and magically you will be able to do it? Did i say anything like that? Oh yes the title of the book is stretching scientifically. Sorry that one i admit my mistake.




One of the reasons I think people should actually try what is in the videos they post is so they can tell people honestly that it works...or not. A personal recommendation helps people decide on the efficacy of what is being suggested. It gives the poster of the video credibility if he can say he's actually tried it. No one however is attacking you, comments are all on the video.


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## Transk53 (Apr 5, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> That is why i clarfied my point. Anyway I said what wanted to say already.



Well it was obviously bugging you. Anyway no worries as you've said what you wanted to say.


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 5, 2015)

And i hope before the next guy fires off any more comments is that they at least try it and then say what they want to say based on experience and not ignorance. Just saying.


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## Buka (Apr 5, 2015)

Okay. Let's start again. Based on my forty+ years of experience in fighting arts, thirty+ years of experience in PNF stretching, five years experience in a Physical Therapy unit, and although not my main style, having earned a 4th Dan in Tae-kwon-do many years ago, I say HOGWASH - that comment, the dreaded H word, is directed explicitly towards the title of the _video_, not the forum thread, and in no way whatsoever is meant as a reflection of the knowledge, experience or intent of the person who posted it. (Thanks, by the way.)

And, bro, we're all on your side here. Honest. Just saying. ( I wanted to put a smiley face here, but figured if I did it might be misinterpreted, so......no smiley face. )


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## Tez3 (Apr 5, 2015)

tkdwarrior said:


> And i hope before the next guy fires off any more comments is that they at least try it and then say what they want to say based on experience and not ignorance. Just saying.




Did you actually try the stuff from the video? If so tell us how it works, if not you can't sound off at others.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 5, 2015)

*I can do the splits and have been able to do them since I was a teenager*.  However, I trained for quite a while and just couldn't do them fully.  So one day I bought a stretching machine and have been able to do them ever since.  Now, every once in a while if I lag on my stretching and am a little tight I spend about two to three day's working on the machine and I am right back to full splits.  Get yourself a stretching machine and use it.


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## Transk53 (Apr 5, 2015)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> *I can do the splits and have been able to do them since I was a teenager*.  However, I trained for quite a while and just couldn't do them fully.  So one day I bought a stretching machine and have been able to do them ever since.  Now, every once in a while if I lag on my stretching and am a little tight I spend about two to three day's working on the machine and I am right back to full splits.  Get yourself a stretching machine and use it.




Just wondering though if having the knowledge that a machine needed, would that kind of mean more pressure on the muscles leaving open the possibility on injury. I don't know if a singular injury could be doing it again a few times through wear and tear. I used to be able to almost get there elbows down and hips rear thingy up. Never liked it though.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 5, 2015)

I don't know Transk53 as I have never really had any groin injuries.


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## Transk53 (Apr 5, 2015)

Me neither luckily with soccer. Thinking more hamstring which I have injured.


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## tkdwarrior (Apr 17, 2015)

I already answered that question.


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