# Oblivious!



## Jonathan Randall (Feb 19, 2006)

Last weekend I met a friend for coffee at Starbucks like we usually do. This man is a college math professor and has recently published a physicis textbook. However, when, on a whim, we decided to leave our cars there and walk to the bookstore across a very large parking lot, I noticed that he did not look around at all and was completely oblivious to what was going on around him. We had to pass an alley, and I noticed he didn't even make a side glance to see what was in the alley before he passed through it. I *certainly *did. Understand that this is the same parking lot where a mutual friend was mugged at gunpoint and struck several times - even while cooperating completely and giving them the money!

My friend is much larger than I am and was a competitive triathlete in college. Physically, he is so much stronger and larger (and athletically gifted) that he would be a match (or better) for many martial artists. Unfortunately, I think that I am ten times safer on the streets than he is because *I pay attention to my surroundings and he does not! *IMO, *SITUATIONAL AWARENESS is the single most important self-defence skill a person can have. *In most cases it would be difficult to surprise me, but because he is OBLIVIOUS to his surroundings, he could be very easily ambushed. Something to consider folks. It's pointless to practice MA until your sidekick and sprawl are perfect only to run into an ARMED attacker because you were oblivious to your surroundings.

I'd like to issue a challenge to all MT members who have not already done something like this. For the next two weeks observe your surrounding so carefully that you could write a several paragraph description of what was going on in every room you entered, how many people (and doing what?) were in the parking lots you passed through, etc. Also, look sideways before you enter an alley or store to see if trouble is brewing. In my opinion, if you do this RELIGIOUSLY for two weeks straight, it will become a habit that will have a greater payoff in assault prevention and self-defence than ten years of unarmed training.


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## shesulsa (Feb 19, 2006)

JR, I couldn't agree more.  I'll share an experience as well, if you don't mind ....

I walked into a local Safeway which has a Starbucks in it.  At the counter were two young city police officers.  One was leaning on the counter (one must lean over a fair bit to lean on the counter as there is a lower shelf which juts out a bit) flirting with the young hottie barista.  The other was standing around the corner of the counter, firearm side to the door, head turned away towards - you guessed it - the young hottie barista.  

Officer #2 was in my way.  I walked right up behind him and brushed against him in order to pass ... cuz he was in my way, in the middle of the aisle that goes between the counter corner and the next display over and I needed to pass.  I could have touched his gun, his cuffs, his EB, his pepper spray and neither one of these men would have noticed.

Surely they were fresh from the academy.  Even more disturbingly, they didn't bother to approach me and correct me for doing it, despite my daughter's haughty looks (unsolicited by me) in their general direction.

ANOTHER thing that gets me:  Moms who put their kids in the car and take a moment standing at the driver side door fishing through their purses or diaper bags or shopping bags for something with their back to the world.  I've walked right past these women and they never even turn around.

AND people who run, walk, bike, rollerblade, whatever, listening to iPods or CD players.  I could tap-dance behind these people and they'd never notice.

I suppose there has to be victims, doesn't there? :idunno:


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## Jonathan Randall (Feb 19, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> JR, I couldn't agree more. I'll share an experience as well, if you don't mind ....
> 
> I walked into a local Safeway which has a Starbucks in it. At the counter were two young city police officers. One was leaning on the counter (one must lean over a fair bit to lean on the counter as there is a lower shelf which juts out a bit) flirting with the young hottie barista. The other was standing around the corner of the counter, firearm side to the door, head turned away towards - you guessed it - the young hottie barista.
> 
> ...


 
That's funny, because about a month and a half ago I was at a local Starbucks and two police officers in boots, jeans and SWAT jackets came in. I chatted with one of them for a moment (about a book I had that he had also read), and despite this friendly conversation, when he passed me to get his coffee, he did it in such a way (unobtrusively) that I would NOT have been able to make a successful grab at his weapon if my life depended upon it (not that I would, of course). I remembered thinking that both he and his partner could teach martial artists an awful lot about situational awareness. No matter how chatty or friendly they got (and they were regulars), both scanned the room upon entering and leaving as well as while in there. Personally, I was sorry when they had to leave because I felt so much safer with them there. Of course these were no ROOKIES, but Sacramento PD Swat officers in their late thirties to early forties. I guess it boils down to experience and judgment. The two young ones you saw obviously were not experienced and definitely lacked judgment.


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## still learning (Feb 20, 2006)

Hello, You are right!  Most of us usually do not pay attention to our surrounding many times.  

This is something we must teach ourselves to learn to do...?  I need it!

My good friend who just left the police force...was always aware of his surroundings and many times  pointed things out most people do not notice....he always suprise me of the people around us and nearby. Espescially the ones who look like they are up to something.

Should this be a part of our martial art lesson plans? ...........Aloha


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## bluemtn (Feb 20, 2006)

The other day as my boyfriend and I were walking in the mall, I had just noticed a lady start to walk  silently behind us.  I don't know if she was after something, but I kept looking back at her- I just had that weird feeling that something wasn't quite right.  Eventually, she went another direction.  Ever since starting MA, I've noticed I'm much more aware of my surroundings, and I think everyone should be.


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## FearlessFreep (Feb 20, 2006)

One thing I do is that when getting into a car, especially if I have to get my keys out, is too look around and know where people in the parking lot are as I'm digging out keys and unlocking the door.  Same with parking, when I'm finding a spot I watch to see where people are in the parking area and look out the window before I open the door to get out.

It seems to be getting into and out of a vehicle are vulnerable points of distraction, so I try to know where people are when I'm doing them


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## bcbernam777 (Feb 20, 2006)

You are right, it is an important attribute to develop


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## MJS (Feb 20, 2006)

Jonathan Randall said:
			
		

> Last weekend I met a friend for coffee at Starbucks like we usually do. This man is a college math professor and has recently published a physicis textbook. However, when, on a whim, we decided to leave our cars there and walk to the bookstore across a very large parking lot, I noticed that he did not look around at all and was completely oblivious to what was going on around him. We had to pass an alley, and I noticed he didn't even make a side glance to see what was in the alley before he passed through it. I *certainly *did. Understand that this is the same parking lot where a mutual friend was mugged at gunpoint and struck several times - even while cooperating completely and giving them the money!
> 
> My friend is much larger than I am and was a competitive triathlete in college. Physically, he is so much stronger and larger (and athletically gifted) that he would be a match (or better) for many martial artists. Unfortunately, I think that I am ten times safer on the streets than he is because *I pay attention to my surroundings and he does not! *IMO, *SITUATIONAL AWARENESS is the single most important self-defence skill a person can have. *In most cases it would be difficult to surprise me, but because he is OBLIVIOUS to his surroundings, he could be very easily ambushed. Something to consider folks. It's pointless to practice MA until your sidekick and sprawl are perfect only to run into an ARMED attacker because you were oblivious to your surroundings.
> 
> I'd like to issue a challenge to all MT members who have not already done something like this. For the next two weeks observe your surrounding so carefully that you could write a several paragraph description of what was going on in every room you entered, how many people (and doing what?) were in the parking lots you passed through, etc. Also, look sideways before you enter an alley or store to see if trouble is brewing. In my opinion, if you do this RELIGIOUSLY for two weeks straight, it will become a habit that will have a greater payoff in assault prevention and self-defence than ten years of unarmed training.


 
Great points Jon!!!  Being aware is something that unfortunately is seriously overlooked by many.  Maybe people think that something bad will never happen to them.  There is nothing wrong with being cautious IMO.  No matter where I am, even if its an area that I'm familiar with, I always make a point to glance around the general area before I get out of my car, walking thru the parking lot, etc.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm not so paranoid that I'm constantly looking over my shoulder, but I make sure that I'm not completely oblivious to my surroundings.  I would think that a criminal is going to be looking for an easy target, someone who's walking with their head down, pre-occupied by other things, etc.

Mike


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## samurai69 (Feb 20, 2006)

still learning said:
			
		

> Should this be a part of our martial art lesson plans? ...........Aloha


 
Certainly if its a self defence based art

I have been running some short courses for teachers and female students at a local school, and awarness is the first, and main, thing i teach them

even over the last week one of them came upto me and said that the awarness part of training had helped them avoid a potentialy dangerous situation.


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## stone_dragone (Feb 20, 2006)

One of the things that I really enjoyed about the Krav Maga classes that I took when I was in Alabama was a situational awareness/"mode shifting" drill.  It went a little something like this...

Students lying on the ground, eyes closed, relaxing.  Instructor calmly, slowly and in a relaxing voice begins describing a situation (walking in the mall, walking to your car, etc).  He goes into incredible detail to help in the visualization.  After a randomly set amount of time and when he is fairly sure that everyone is relaxed...*BANG*!! Loud noise and rapid descrpition of the change in situation.  Students up as quickly as possible and moving into action.  Afterwards, we would quickly discuss our reactions and learn from them.

This was to help students "change gears" from a relaxed but ready (or possibly not ready) attitude to one of defensive action.  I don't know if it was a Krav maga specific drill or just an idea from that instructor.  I like using variations of it for my own readiness training.


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## Kacey (Feb 20, 2006)

I agree that this is an issue that needs to be addressed.  I habitually check out my surroundings, whether I'm at a store, walking the dog (especially walking the dog - lots of trees to hide behind in the park), driving, whatever - but I know plenty of people who have gotten in accidents over things they "just didn't see".  I mean, honestly... how do you miss a 5-foot high, 3-foot diameter cement pillar?  But I know someone who ran into one because she didn't see it (or so she said... and the blood test came back negative for alcohol, etc.).

If I feel at all nervous, I tend to go a step beyond looking around, and find myself planning how I would take out people around me if they tried something - looking not just for potential attackers, but vulnerable attack sites on those attackers.  But many of my friends (the non-MAers especially, but also some of the less-experienced MAers, as well) don't even notice things that make me nervous - for example, one of my friends asked me why I was so careful to keep my distance from a panhandler who approached me at a gas station - aside from the baggy clothes that could have been hiding anything, she never noticed the lit cigarette in his hand, as he got within 3 feet of where I was pumping gas.  And I find that I prefer to sit in corners than with my back to a room, especially in public places (it people's homes it doesn't really bother me).

When I teach self-defense courses, awareness of your surroundings is the primary thing I teach - everything from parking with your car door toward the door of the store you're going into to looking for someone approaching you, from the open or from hidden openings.  Many people walk around in a daze - how many times have you driven somewhere with little, if any, clear recollection of how you got there?  Highway hypnosis, no matter what form it takes (and whether there's a highway there or not), is a dangerous habit to fall into.


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## Lisa (Feb 20, 2006)

I always check out my surroundings and when driving alone at night or even during the day, I have my doors locked and I plan my path.  I am teaching simple things like watching what is going on around you and staying on the sidewalk when walking to school and looking out for potential dangers to my kids.  My oldest daughter is learning to drive, I want her to be able to spot potential bad situations when getting to the car in a parking lot, etc.  

There is a lot to be said about "an ounce of prevention..."  NOT getting into those situations takes a conscious effort.


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## beau_safken (Feb 20, 2006)

Well I sure do believe in situational awareness..but not to the point of being nerotic.  A quick scan and holding a powerful presence in the space you hold pretty much does the trick.  

Cops for the most part...sorry but I really dont like cops.  I always have the weird sense of false power from the younger cops.  The older ones dont give a damn about stupid crap.  For me, cops just make my damn life a hassle and look to pull me over for stupid crap just to see what im driving or doing.  Ya I have negative transferance on cops as they did take my dad away when my parents were getting divorced blah blah.  Point is, they really dont have any awareness outside their little bubble.  The best is young cops that use a gun with a safety....god..how dumb.  Glock is really a cops weapon of choice.  Also Im sure you are very aware that police generally only fire between 50 - 100 rounds a year during their qualifying tests.  After that they have to pay for the brass, so they dont shoot.  I was shooting with my cop friend in Colorado and this cop had HORRIBLE form.  Shooting the outer portion of the target and couldnt hit anything.  Limp wristing and all...  I would rather ask the cop to pass me the gun if it came to that kind of thing thank you very much.


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## TigerWoman (Feb 20, 2006)

I would teach teens and well as adults to not walk and talk on the cell phone.
Especially through parking lots at night.  That's how Dru Sjodin was captured, raped, killed by a already known sex offender in Minnesota. She was the same age as my daughter, then 20. 

That was interesting about parking the car so the car door is visible to the door of the shop, but alot of times it isn't possible especiallly in our downtown and in the mall lots.  Even then, a would-be attacker could be hiding behind the car or another car.  TW


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## SAVAGE (Feb 20, 2006)

I will say it before and I will say it again..self defence is not about when you are being attacked..self defence is a moment to moment thing..it is about awareness!


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## scottcatchot (Feb 20, 2006)

One thing I like to do, learned while going through the Academy to become a correctional officer, is to play the What if game.  Basically where ever you are you think 'What if I were attacked here' and think about what weapons are available, how you would handle the attack, etc.


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## Devin (Feb 20, 2006)

Walking home from work not too long ago I noticed a woman walking ahead of me. This was about 9:20 at night, so it was dark out. Granted, the parking lot wasn't totally secluded, and a busy road was not far off, but she had terrible awareness.

She was talking (loudly) on her cellphone in one hand, and carrying a bag in the other. She was only looking forward too. I remember thinking that I could move right up behind her and tap her on the shoulder before she knew I was there.


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## Jonathan Randall (Feb 20, 2006)

Devin said:
			
		

> Walking home from work not too long ago I noticed a woman walking ahead of me. This was about 9:20 at night, so it was dark out. Granted, the parking lot wasn't totally secluded, and a busy road was not far off, but she had terrible awareness.
> 
> She was talking (loudly) on her cellphone in one hand, and carrying a bag in the other. She was only looking forward too. I remember thinking that I could move right up behind her and tap her on the shoulder before she knew I was there.


 
That's always scary to see, especially when it is young women walking alone. Sometimes it's easy for me to forget that years in the MA have made me more cautious and aware of my surroundings than the average person, but it still is very frustrating to see.

Feerlessfreep, made an excellent point, IMO, about getting into and out of your car being the times when you should be most aware as you are most vulnerable at those moments.


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## beau_safken (Feb 20, 2006)

Then agian there are times when you have to just say...well that is one less thing for me to worry about.  Guess what...they are the easier target.  Not very nice but that is life.  I look at it like this.  When you started the arts...did you learn faster from words or having something happen?  Yep...people will learn when the lesson is ready to be taught.


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## Carol (Feb 20, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> ...well that is one less thing for me to worry about. Guess what...they are the easier target.


 
Oh?

A woman talking loudly attracts a lot more attention that a person walking silently...including attracting the kind of attention that an attacker doesn't like.  

Would an attacker necessarily want to attack someone that has a live connection to someone else?  That's another way to attract the kind of attention that an attacker doesn't want.  A person not on the phone (or otherwise connected) does not pose that risk.  

I'm not saying that it is wise to walk around after dark in cell phone oblivion, but I also do not think that they automatically default to being the easier target.

Just my thoughts though...


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## beau_safken (Feb 21, 2006)

Oh?

I would guess that you were more activated by the fact that in this case I called the woman on a cell phone a easier target.  Would it have been any different if it would have been a man?


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## shesulsa (Feb 21, 2006)

Beau, lady's post reads to me that she's lending more credence to the LOUD NOISY PERSON rather than the quiet, unobtrusive one - gender regardless.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2006)

Agreed.

Being oblivious is one thing... attracting unwanted attention is another.

Male, female, whatever... If I am a criminal, Im goin for the one I think I can get away with.​


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## beau_safken (Feb 21, 2006)

Aye, I sensed that as well.  However, a little bit of that was smelling to lean a touch towards a gender issue.  

I will admit that someone talking loud on a phone might be able to contact someone fast...Course that is assuming the normal police reaction time of 10 minutes.  Wouldn't take but a nice smack to lay out a distracted victim rather than a alert quiet person.  The unobtrusive may be seen as a probable target, however someone that isnt in tune with their surroundings is a much better target, regardless of who is on the other side.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2006)

True, and if the person on the Cell phone being loud is in a secluded area then, yea, I see where you are coming from but if not... we all know that when someone is being loud and obnoxious we tend to look... so a person being that way is not a good choice of victim... because people will be looking.​


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## beau_safken (Feb 21, 2006)

Too many variables either way.  Then again...criminals are hardly equipped with reason on levels..


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## Cryozombie (Feb 21, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> Too many variables either way.  Then again...criminals are hardly equipped with reason on levels..



Depends on the Criminal.


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## Mark L (Feb 21, 2006)

beau_safken said:
			
		

> Too many variables either way.  Then again...criminals are hardly equipped with reason on levels..


 Massively dangerous assumption, anti-social behavior is certainly not limited to those with limited intellects.

I think it is also naive to assume someone isn't aware of there sorroundings because it isn't obvious to you.  I know my sorroundings at all times, but I don't draw attention to the fact.  Cell phone lady sounds like she might be oblivous, but would you count on it?

That being said, I fully agree with your observation:



			
				beau_safken said:
			
		

> A quick scan and holding a powerful presence in the space you hold  ...


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## beau_safken (Feb 21, 2006)

Looks like I have found a wonderful slippery slope arguement here Batman...

Assuming anything is dangerous, but I'm not going to go into how to detect others intent and energy.  To be honest, I would hate for something to happen to another person..but I cant be there to save everyone.  People are people...Some know, some dont.  I will learn my arguement up to this.  A criminal no matter the crime will find the weakest, smallest and precevably easiest target.  No matter the gender, ethnicity or whatever.  Just be aware and you will be fine, but not at the cost of your own enjoyment or sanity.


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## beau_safken (Feb 22, 2006)

Wooo Thanks for the negative hits to my reputation for those sexist comments.  And the threats of its gonna get worse for me really strikes fear into me...I tell ya what.  At least Shesulsa had the decency to include her name in her hit...As for the other, great baseless threat.  It's not like I go out of my way to make sexist comments...Not like I have a lot of choice in the matter there are only two ways to answer.  The one that just happened to come out of my mouth and the one that is appropriate in nature to leave everyone floating on a cloud of marshmellows with tulips.  Get over it...I'm sure that isnt the first time you heard something like that.  Last I checked there were more cases of rape, murder and other misdeeds that involved female victims and male perps.  Unless I made a extraordinary exaggeration in declaring something even more immature, vile, disgusting and perverted because im a man and all.

EDIT: Oh yea keep those negative dings a coming.  I still have another 105 points left.  Get it all out and make yourself feel ever more wonderful and empowered by the grace of the internet.  GO GO GO GOGOGOGOGO

Edit 2:  I suggest this for all those that need a little check in reality http://www.filmbuffs.net/bananana/


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## shesulsa (Feb 22, 2006)

beau, allow me to direct you to a couple of features:

1.  The little red triangle at the top of each post is the RTM feature. If you find a post you think breaks our rules (rules link available on the blue menu bar at the top of every page) you can report it to the staff.

2.  The Support Forum.  If you think you have been wrongly dinged, please feel free to address the issue there.  You'll find some discussion on reputation over there you might find enlightening and helpful.


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## Mark L (Feb 22, 2006)

Beau,
You're coming across as a petulant child who doesn't like it when confronted with your own words. I've only read your posts on this thread, and some of them do have value. Perhaps a little self-reflection on your tone and attitude will reveal why you are getting these responses.

And I always attach my name to reputation, both good and bad.


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## Cryozombie (Feb 22, 2006)

MOD NOTE:

Please keep the conversation Polite and respectful.

-Technopunk
-Super Moderator​


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## Marginal (Feb 23, 2006)

Reminds me of a conversation between a yellow belt and a visiting 6th dan at the testing party after my first belt test. 

The yellow belt felt that implicit media approval of women being attacked created the higher incidence of attacks on women. The 6th dan's response was that criminals tend to go for the easier target. They went round and round til I just laughed, which killed the "debate". 

Nothing like a little situational awareness to salvage an unraveling situation.


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## dianhsuhe (Feb 23, 2006)

The most "aware" I have ever been was when I was a new police officer on patrol, it was honestly exhausting because I was paying complete attention to everything around me- that IS what we were paid for though-

Elbow on firearm at all times- also be mindful that grabbing a firearm from someone with a double or triple retention holster is challenging in and of itself. 

Cheers everyone, great topci!

James


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