# New to this JKD thing, would this be my JKD?



## bMunky (Mar 1, 2006)

Right now my base arts are Jujitsu and Judo two different senseis but both trained by wally jay so everything is the same just different agenda. Those two are my serious arts the ones I will most likely train in for the rest of my life. But as for other stuff, I dable in a lot of other martial arts to get experience, I tried studying just one martial art with judo and jujitsu but it didnt work I couldnt get into it like I can with judo and jujitsu. ButI noticed theres certain things I'm getting from everywhere that I really like and been incorparting into mystyle just randomly and didnt notice it till I read the threads here. I pretty much train in a tae kwon do stance and switch sides with a capoeira ginga instad of the tae kwon do hop to keep things flowing and smooth. I usualy dont do many low kicks as I use my low kick openings for sweeps since it's implanted in my brain from all the judo and jujitsu. I train in front kicks (groin and shin weapon), side kicks (low side kicks learned in capoeira), back kicks, and axe kick that I learned in tae kwon do and Meia Lua de Frente (inside crescent kick), Queixada (outside crescent kick) Meia Lua de Compasso (capoeira exclusive kick, i think), Martelo(roundhouse), and Martelo Rotado (360 roundhouse). Open hand striking system , not set side train both hands and legs equally, no real hand position just keep the arms relaxed and loose mainly I keep my hands low and ready to grab for a throw or wrist lock, palm jab, palm shovel hook, palm slap, hammer fist, cross elbow, and the obviously my DZR Jujitsu and Judo I practice passionatly. I use palms exclusively as I have a bad hand from a boxers break I block by slapping strikes and just pretty much just try to stay out the way mainly with negativas from capoeira followed with groin and knee kicks and judo roll back into standing position and use a boxers cover to protect from heavy blows, I also train in a thumb jab to the eye I learned from my hawaiian uncles. That pretty much sums up my style and year and a half training (which I know is nothing) so I have a LOT LOT LOT more evolving to go. I'm taking a kujekembo karate class and weapons class where I'll learn the Jo and Yawara-Bo from my jujitsu sensei and she also teaches me tai chi but tai chi is more of a movign exercise chi enhancer kinda thing for me.

So what I was wondering would this be my JKD? I was just wondering, I dont plan on running around tellign everyone I do JKD, I only tell people I practice judo jujitsu as I think all the other theories on striking and stance I use to pretty much suppliment my jujitsu and judo even though I rely heavily on my kicks in sparring, like when I teach I'll call my class just jujitsu and nothing more (I'm on the strict sensei program with my sensei, should be teaching hopefully in a strong 5 - 6 years if I keep training the way I do). Was just really wondering as I'm a complete newb to JKD philosophy so sorry if I sound like a complete idiot just trying to get a littl epush into my JKD studies.


----------



## Jimi (Mar 1, 2006)

Peace. I don't think you quite have JKD there, but it sure seems you are trying to be very well rounded. Your freestyle attitude is great, it that will help you to continue to evolve no doubt. This "My style" seems to me, shows you are aware to adapt. Some others with JKD experience may well define that what you have is not Jeet Kune Do, and it would be true. Don't get discouraged, what you are trying to develop is good. Many would say to have JKD is to first study Jun Fan Gung Fu to understand what Sijo was onto so to speak, then with that you may develop your own way to intercept/counter etc... an attack, what have you. What you have put together for yourself is fair for being free to see what works. A lot of people would be cross if you were to say this is my JKD, without having touched on some Association invovled with legit Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD. Keep up the good work and listen to what else you may see here.


----------



## Andrew Green (Mar 1, 2006)

JKD generally implies a connection / lineage to Bruce Lee, as you don't have that I would say no.

You could be doing exactly the same stuff as a JKD school and I would still say no.  Besides, why would you want to use the name if you have no connection to it?

The whole philosophy is centered around do what works for YOU, not do what Bruce Lee did and call it what he did.  So go with "bMunky-do"


----------



## bMunky (Mar 2, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> JKD generally implies a connection / lineage to Bruce Lee, as you don't have that I would say no.
> 
> You could be doing exactly the same stuff as a JKD school and I would still say no. Besides, why would you want to use the name if you have no connection to it?
> 
> The whole philosophy is centered around do what works for YOU, not do what Bruce Lee did and call it what he did. So go with "bMunky-do"


 
Haha, I wasnt trying to be able to say I do JKD I was just wondering by all the other posts I read on this forum to see what you guys think. I know what I do is technically mixed martial arts. But for me it's just something for me, when I teach it'll be DZR Jujitsu/Judo straight to the bone but for me I want something thats 100% fitted for me, thats why I continue to practice strikes that I notice come out like reflex's.


----------



## James Kovacich (Mar 2, 2006)

bMunky said:
			
		

> Haha, I wasnt trying to be able to say I do JKD I was just wondering by all the other posts I read on this forum to see what you guys think. I know what I do is technically mixed martial arts. But for me it's just something for me, when I teach it'll be DZR Jujitsu/Judo straight to the bone but for me I want something thats 100% fitted for me, thats why I continue to practice strikes that I notice come out like reflex's.


 
So you're saying that you will "hold back" when you teach. By reading your above post it sounds that you do more that just Judo/Jujutsu and it did sound if you were asking if you were doing JKD.

JKD "can" be related to MMA but MMA has no real relation to JKD EXCEPT for a few concepts.

If you were to spend sometime with a decent Jun Fan or JKD instuctor and learned the theory and concepts and applied them to personal martial art I think you "could" be on tract. 

I would say that techniques like Martelo Rotado (360 roundhouse) don't really fit. I work the palm and open hand technques quite a bit but to work them exclusively again wouldn't fit and in general Capoeira isn't an art that we hear JKD "drawing from."

Dosen't matter anyway. MMA is in it's right becoming well accepted definately has it's own place in the MA world.


----------



## bMunky (Mar 3, 2006)

akja said:
			
		

> So you're saying that you will "hold back" when you teach. By reading your above post it sounds that you do more that just Judo/Jujutsu and it did sound if you were asking if you were doing JKD.
> 
> JKD "can" be related to MMA but MMA has no real relation to JKD EXCEPT for a few concepts.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, was guessing I do MMA, I draw from capoeira because I like all my strikes to be somewhat unorthodox so people cant see em coming, cause I train for selfdefense only, I only need one hit in to stun em to give me a head start so I can run away, so thats why really.


----------



## Andrew Green (Mar 3, 2006)

capoeira has yet to show any effectiveness in MMA, orthodox strikes are "orthodox" for a reason, they work, and work well.  The only way to pull off unorthodox stuff is to get really good at the orthodox stuff first.


----------



## bMunky (Mar 4, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> capoeira has yet to show any effectiveness in MMA, orthodox strikes are "orthodox" for a reason, they work, and work well. The only way to pull off unorthodox stuff is to get really good at the orthodox stuff first.


 
I wasnt planning on going into MMA, I hate getting punched in the face so I couldnt imagine having I guy who trains eeryday to pummel people to get caught in a stampede of elbows from them, haha. I've been in street fights all my life sadly enough growing up next to oakland city so I'm like really comfertable in street altercations and I know when to throw in a good circle kick, shin smash, or palm strike when the time is needed, capoeira kicks come naturally to me because when I was young they made us take capoeira through junior high and highschool so it was there when I got into mainly all my fights and I've been in more than I can remember and I always used my capoeira and wrestling skills an dhtey always served me well. So now that I'm in martial arts again I'm using Jujitsu and Judo as my base arts and in judo and jujitsu we focus on the atemi, to strike to just get em off balance to either run or go in for the throw or takedown to submission or choke which ever is called for the occasion. So I was just asking to get a better understanding of JKD, so I now realise it's not just a MMA it's really a martial art in it's own.


----------



## powerchord (Jul 3, 2006)

bMunky said:
			
		

> Yeah, was guessing I do MMA, I draw from capoeira because I like all my strikes to be somewhat unorthodox so people cant see em coming, cause I train for selfdefense only, I only need one hit in to stun em to give me a head start so I can run away, so thats why really.


 
Unorthodox do you means you intercept their punches with your feet, feet arm destruction or hit the body head legs, groin you say for self-defense give me some indication of what tactics suit your method of fighting in regards to capoeira in your arsenal of weapons.

How do you make it that they can,t see it comming avoidance skills and against what kicks, punches, grappling,judo, jujutsu.

i will enjoy your tactical insight in usage of capoeira the part that you draw from and use in your personal style.


----------



## Dancing Dragon (Jul 3, 2006)

Well bMunky, I would have to say that you have a pretty nice culmination of arts here but JKD would be the correct phrase to use. I believe that your philosophies would have to line up with Bruce Lee's to be considered any sort of JKD (emphasis on interception/straight leads/stop hits and stop kicks/efficiency, directness, and simplicity). If you had all those concepts in mind, then you might be going somewhere with it. 

But please don't take it from me, I'm one of those guys that believes that Bruce Lee was the only true practitioner of JKD and everyone else is using an interpretation of the original.


----------



## powerchord (Jul 4, 2006)

Dancing Dragon said:
			
		

> Well bMunky, I would have to say that you have a pretty nice culmination of arts here but JKD would be the correct phrase to use. I believe that your philosophies would have to line up with Bruce Lee's to be considered any sort of JKD (emphasis on interception/straight leads/stop hits and stop kicks/efficiency, directness, and simplicity). If you had all those concepts in mind, then you might be going somewhere with it.
> 
> But please don't take it from me, I'm one of those guys that believes that Bruce Lee was the only true practitioner of JKD and everyone else is using an interpretation of the original.


 
Yes JKD don,t exist what I was asking what was he using in a different way than most JKD think that is JKD but applying some JKD principles such as mentioned above, not in a supposed JKD recongnized stance or but how effective is his approach.

Bruce lee was not the only practioners of JKD as it did not exist but only partially and fragments of it does, but enought to call it what ever you like.

There are some original concepts but they cannot be restricted to how bruce used it as others can use it that suit their way of fight and achive same results.

There are few times when bruce applied JKD maybe against ted wong and some of his original students even then it was not the full deal as none of them could have the same skills and development at the time.

If it exists then you have something else, but it is the closest something else that anything else out there as is has some general guides lines but no fixed and concrete absolute rule to combat only what works.

So what works is the closest you can get to JKD.  So what does work for this person let him explian in his own terms and then I might even agree it has the tag JKD written all over it.

After all it is a name don,t fuss, but having label sure helps when discussing it.


----------



## James Kovacich (Jul 4, 2006)

powerchord said:
			
		

> Yes JKD don,t exist what I was asking what was he using in a different way than most JKD think that is JKD but applying some JKD principles such as mentioned above, not in a supposed JKD recongnized stance or but how effective is his approach.
> 
> Bruce lee was not the only practioners of JKD as it did not exist but only partially and fragments of it does, but enought to call it what ever you like.
> 
> ...


So I can understand better where you're coming from. Can you tell me what line you come from?


----------



## Robert Lee (Jul 4, 2006)

First JKD had a  structure to what wastaught and trained. That was down from what BRuce did and was evolving during his Life. Now Bruce said your JKD is not mine. BUt any art is the same. What you train from anyone Is a learning method Now what you can use and such that is yours. So if You have or had instruction BE it Jun Fan. To JKd It is the structure. This with THAt will never be JKD . It will be what it is Your own mix. NOT JKD And JKD like it or not is a style. Bruce at first called it that. BUt pulled away not to confuse it as something new or a better way.  Now Yes To take some to add to your JKD that can help you It is still JKD FOR you only. To train something along THe JKD line would be concepts of the JKD aproach. Anything that you can do to be better at what you do is good. Its not JKD But remember really when you are doing something it has no name at all it is just what you do. Be it JKD TKD kempo ect. after you train and can do what can you call it for real Fightin is fightin thats the only name. Style or such is like a training mthod just as college is some where you go to learn your carrear your job trade. M/A is wher you go to learn its art. Then its up to you to do what you can with it. It is yours from there.


----------



## powerchord (Jul 4, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> First JKD had a structure to what wastaught and trained. That was down from what BRuce did and was evolving during his Life. Now Bruce said your JKD is not mine. BUt any art is the same. What you train from anyone Is a learning method Now what you can use and such that is yours. So if You have or had instruction BE it Jun Fan. To JKd It is the structure. This with THAt will never be JKD . It will be what it is Your own mix. NOT JKD And JKD like it or not is a style. Bruce at first called it that. BUt pulled away not to confuse it as something new or a better way. Now Yes To take some to add to your JKD that can help you It is still JKD FOR you only. To train something along THe JKD line would be concepts of the JKD aproach. Anything that you can do to be better at what you do is good. Its not JKD But remember really when you are doing something it has no name at all it is just what you do. Be it JKD TKD kempo ect. after you train and can do what can you call it for real Fightin is fightin thats the only name. Style or such is like a training mthod just as college is some where you go to learn your carrear your job trade. M/A is wher you go to learn its art. Then its up to you to do what you can with it. It is yours from there.


 
If you use the shovel hook in bai jong the structure is wrong as the boxing structure this more, so you step slight outside with the lead leg to get the structure to align the hips.  Not that you re using boxing structure but using what give you a mechanical advantage as the boxing structure has no kicks, this is a tool to achieve better advantage not a new structure unless you decide it to be so just like bai jong it is not a structure unless it give you mechanical advantage.

Bai jong as a structure like all structure has weaknesses so one may sprawl that does not mean one has change structure but used superior tactics and mechanical advantage to achieve one goal.  if one is bound by any structure then it must give one mechancal and tactical advantage when that is not the case then it has to adapt.

The upper cuts also is not right for bai jong, stepping slightly to the right alight the hips.

Bai jong is too narrow and too  side on for the rear kick or muai rear kick but pefect for the lead leg kicks and round kick of the lead leg.  If mechanical power is desired but not the recovery of the kick as that structure or mechanical advantage is too loose and without recovery.

Jun fan has more wing chun structure use full but it has limitation to certain footwork as it it not considered to be part of that or used tactical to mechanical advantage from that fix structure.  So boxing and fencing mechanical advantage is used to add tne angles and mechanical advantage to the bai jong so as not be bound by it but use all it,s adaptation.

So western boxing footwork is more used, it is not the art but what give you maximum power and advantage from the structure you use to achieve interception, attack, cadence, rhythm, tempo, balance in motion.

If JKD had a structure then bai jong would have been enough and boxing punches would not have been added as this suits more wing chun punches.

There is no real structure only what give one mechanical and tactical advantage, there are no concept but what works within the structure body mechanics that give you what you want, chosen to accomplish certain goal and tactics.

Or one would be limited to a certain set of technique only and cannot adapt not to other structure but to mechanical advantage and tactical usage of the tool to suit the occasion when it is used.

If you were on a tree branch and attacking someone what structure may you use it is not any JKd structure but what suit the occasion. So it is with combat a fluid structure is more important than a fixed one.

There is no JKd but what you use to accomplish your goals there are principles that you have to use which give you maximum advantage in offense and defense.

Nothing is really JKD but  use principles that is all, that belongs to JKD as a unique principle that can be named and identified.  The main principle is interception hit and hit again, no passive moves no wasted motion but these are not set in stone, as that may mean anything such as using a weapon instead of hand, feet and body as this makes a lot of sense using a weapon passive parries and no wasted moves.

Economy of motion as well as with a weapon wasted or telegraphic moves would have one,s main target intercepted and fatal if wasted motion created  interception and fatal cut and wounds.

This is the fencing side of JKD, where a slight opening is enought to create a fatal wound.  Any telegraphics action a stop hit is used.  As in JKD principle.  The diffference is an actual weapon is used, not a body part.
Leg in the case of jkd.

This can be attacked by drawing the kick, and stop hitting the attack,  the premises of longest weapon to target does not always hold true as using tactical fighting the opponent may intercept your attack.
Depends who has the longest weapons, ie, legs also.  

Lead punches also who has the longest reach and uses his lead arm, so one cannot have a structure that does not take into account of external factors such as these, and say bai jong is the structure that jkd operate from but only as a demonstration of JKd not actual jkd.

Ability to use one structure to mechanical advantge and superior tactics in regards to weight, height and reach.  As bai jong may afford good protection for similiar reach and height but may leave one at a disadvantage against an opponent who has longer arms legs.

There is no fixed structure in weight height and reach it varies from one individual to another so there is no fixed superior structure.  So JKD as a structure does not exists in combat but only what works.


----------



## Robert Lee (Jul 5, 2006)

The structure is what you learn that is and was trained in a JKD training You talk of fencing of boxing of wingchun. All that was put into JKD as part of its structure. Bi jong is the postion your main guard. But from moment to moment it may change. But you fall back into it as you progress a fight is ever changing no set stance. if you sprawl  its for the moment. You have right and left steps also from bi jong. Structure means training method this case being JKD. if you traine say TKd you would train learning the tools offered from that art. .Same with JKD. If you seperate boxing fencing from JKD then its not flowing. Its being still in motion.  After you have trained JKd for a while and can get certion tools working That is your JKD. Sure you can improve more on other tools in JKD as you train longer. will you use them as much maybe or maybe not. It like when you learned to walk it took a little time soon you got it and never think about how you walk you just walk. That is wher you find your JKD you just do it. Do not try staying bound by just one motion. ever changeing you may drop to something that looks like say horsestance but it really just  a flowing motion of foot work for the moment then you may go back to more bi jong position.  Then maybe go to say a natural position for that moment ect,Bi jong is  the base line stance found in JKD Primary fighting position Thats all But like I said the fight is constantly changing what you do is what you do. But never seperate to say boxing now fencing now ect. just do. Wing chun, boxing and fenceing Was bended into JKD as its main structure of attack defence motions. To intercept well that to takes training  Its just anything is not JKD  And to say JKD is not a art It is when you train in it. It is not when you do it. BUT thats every art in the M/A s Thats where people miss the boat they look at just a name or style. But do not look at what they do as it being just them that persons way of doing what they learned to do. Say you did Kenpo for your training You would learn the training that was used from that art. Then you would perform from that method The different uses of the tools you discovered that enabled you to do what you do. Would it now be JKD NO would it now be Kenpo NO it would be only your M/A . You talked of bozing A boxer discovers his methods through his training it his alone only he can make what he does work its just called boxing And he is called a boxer. So  JKD has certion tools that makes it a branch of Martial arts training then Your a martial artist one branch of the whole tree. Bruce did not show you how to box then how to fence then how to do wing chun. He blended what he liked into one and it became JKD Thats its structure Gives you the foundation From there you build your own house


----------



## Flatlander (Jul 5, 2006)

There are a number of people posting in this thread that could benefit from an English grammar class.  I simply cannot interpret the point that many of you are trying to make.

However, I am in agreement with those of the opinion that bMunky is not doing JKD.  For those of you of the position (from what I'm able to intuit) that JKD can be defined as doing whatever you do while remaining adaptive and continuing to evolve, I'll have to politely disagree.

The idea of JKD becoming "your own" JKD is predicated upon beginning with a certain "basket" of techniques, principles, and training methods.  From there, in keeping with the principles, philosophies, and training methods, one should endeavour to continue to learn, grow, adapt, and refine one's art until it becomes a reflection of them.  However, this idea of evolution and adaptation doesn't undermine the importance of the base upon which that art is built.

And, if you're not learning from someone with a lineage connection to the art, you're likely not learning JKD.


----------



## Robert Lee (Jul 6, 2006)

I can agree there on your aspects of JKd. But it must become your own. The part of that is what within the JKD structure that you alonne have grown to be able to use. That becomes your JKD. But then its really not JKD its just what you do No name for that


----------



## Flatlander (Jul 14, 2006)

Robert Lee said:
			
		

> But then its really not JKD its just what you do No name for that


There's a problem with asserting that it's "not JKD" once one has evolved and made things there own.

First, it opens the doors for people to claim that they have 'made something new' or 'developed their own system' or whatever, and you end up with these people running around giving their 'new' system 'new' names, thus confusing the hell out of people and generally misrepresenting themselves as Grandmasters and Sokes of their own art.  It's nothing new - it's just a personal style of executing a particular artform.  This is a byproduct of giving people the freedom to explore.

Secondly, I don't think that its fair to suggest that, if _in fact one trained in legitimate JKD_ that _what they become is not JKD_.  Generally speaking, these people will still employ many of the technical aspects of the art (including interceptions, destructions, JKD lines, and footwork), tactical aspects, and training methods.  In that regard, though they way their art manifests combatively may look different, it is still built upon the same base, and shares a great deal with others cut from the same cloth.  So, why can't it be called JKD?


----------



## Robert Lee (Jul 14, 2006)

Understanding what you do to be something that only you can do that part has no name. Take  the way you walk its different then others people learn to reconize your walk they see you walking and know its you. JKD is lets say the vehicle you learned by. Your JKD is different then all others JKD. because each person has a seperate mind. Training JKD you have the name to how you train it. doing it say in spar or fight you just are doing what you do . Yes its JKD in action I quess But does it have to stay in a name. fighting is fighting Why name that. Kenpo is kenpo method of training How can something be you if you have to name it. Thats why I said After you have trained JKD and then use or do JKD it has no name Its 1 person aginst the other in action. Each person taking any M/A needs to let go of the name so the art is thers alone when they are doing it Thats to me why many fail in M/A to become better they spend more time trying to do the art then just let the art be what they do I am not saying any thing is JKD as it is not. What bruce researshed and put into JKd that is JKD and different stages had different trainings. Thats why people instruct what they do as JKD Bruce said 1 in ten thousand will get it. Its not the name its how you use that training to make it your own. But agin thats the same in every style of M/A each person finds what they can use in any given M/A personal side to learning represents what you learned But its yours that part does not need to be named just do it when you need to.


----------



## kroh (Aug 25, 2006)

flatlander said:
			
		

> There are a number of people posting in this thread that could benefit from an English grammar class.



Oh dear god my head hurts.  Unless some of these posters are from other countries, I can see why we have the number 14 ranked school system on the planet. 

 Hey bMunky, you should realize that JKD is not a buzz word for mixing up stuff and throwing it together.  Aside from that... You seem like you are very serious about your training and about investigating a fighting method that suits you.  

Good luck in your studdies and have fun with it.
Regards, 
Walt


----------

