# Can knife fights be won by simply overpowering an opponent? Can disarms be done with brute strength?



## Bullsherdog (Feb 5, 2020)

Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.

However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.

I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?


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## Flying Crane (Feb 5, 2020)

Yes.


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## Gweilo (Feb 6, 2020)

Yes


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## Danny T (Feb 6, 2020)

Yes. Not particularly the best option though.


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## Buka (Feb 6, 2020)

Shouldn't Beatrix "Black Mamba" Kiddo  have been using her left hand to punch out of her buried coffin in Kill Bill 2? Probably doesn't matter too much...


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## dvcochran (Feb 6, 2020)

Yes. Of course, the opposite could be true. If fear had not controlled the poor kid the 'fight' would have never happened.

IF a frog had a clutch they would not jump.  I could not resist.


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## Gweilo (Feb 7, 2020)

Buka said:


> Shouldn't Beatrix "Black Mamba" Kiddo  have been using her left hand to punch out of her buried coffin in Kill Bill 2? Probably doesn't matter too much...
> 
> View attachment 22685


I find her oddly sexy in that scene


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## Martial D (Feb 7, 2020)

Bullsherdog said:


> Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.
> 
> However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.
> 
> I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?



Another nonsense post written in the style of a quora farmer. At least you are consistent.

This is the most unnecessarily lengthy way of asking the (hopefully rhetorical) question of whether people are stronger than people they are stronger than.

Assuming you are asking this in earnest..yes...

People are stronger than people they are stronger than. Also people taller than you are taller than you, and smart people are definitely smarter than you(all of them in fact)


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## Deleted member 39746 (Feb 8, 2020)

The face when Blauer used that scene to demonstrate his inside 90degrees, outside 90degrees concept.


(one of many scenes/scernioros used to demo it)


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## Parzival (Feb 10, 2020)

You can overpower someone at any time, technique can overpower power, but power and technique is where it's at


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## MFC__2020 (Dec 24, 2020)

Ive never seen the movie Saving Private Ryan...but I did watch a few clips and none of them show an actual disarm technique because the scene jumps.  So it's impossible to say if brute strength or technique were used for the knife to change hands.  In the position he's in(the guy that got mounted if you speak MMA) there are multiple ways for someone to make you lose possession of a knife.   You are always open for counter attack if you have a skilled adversary.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 24, 2020)

Bullsherdog said:


> put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.


In knife fight, speed is more important than power. When a mosquito flies in front of you, you use both palms to smash it. Do you use your body to chase your arms (speed), or do you use your body to push your arms (power)?


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## drop bear (Dec 25, 2020)

This is kind of my fairly devisive theory. 

You can overwhelm a guy so that he doesn't have time to attack you back. 

So there is a chance that just keeping momentum in a fight will prevent you from being stabbed even if you don't address the knife. 

There is also a chance you will mess that up.

But trying to grab the hand of of a knife wielding attacker isn't a much better option. And almost doesn't work either. 

So just overpowering is a viable option.


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## dvcochran (Dec 25, 2020)

drop bear said:


> This is kind of my fairly devisive theory.
> 
> You can overwhelm a guy so that he doesn't have time to attack you back.
> 
> ...


I agree with a few qualifiers. From a pure speed or power basis I think the odds are pretty slim. When using SA and emotional distraction (bluff and BS) And speed/power the odds are decent for a practiced person. But it will always be at the bottom of my list of choices. 
If a persons 'practice' is the theatrics where you use the guys knife to stab them while the are still holding the knife, well I hope that speaks for itself.


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## drop bear (Dec 25, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I agree with a few qualifiers. From a pure speed or power basis I think the odds are pretty slim. When using SA and emotional distraction (bluff and BS) And speed/power the odds are decent for a practiced person. But it will always be at the bottom of my list of choices.
> If a persons 'practice' is the theatrics where you use the guys knife to stab them while the are still holding the knife, well I hope that speaks for itself.



Yeah but that is if for example you have arms like steel pipes. In which case perfectly doable. 

Go let an older labourer or a brickie get hold of your wrist.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 25, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Yeah but that is if for example you have arms like steel pipes. In which case perfectly doable.
> 
> Go let an older labourer or a brickie get hold of your wrist.


I trained with a guy who had been a mover (helping move people’s furniture) for decades. His grip strength was another level.


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## dvcochran (Dec 25, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Yeah but that is if for example you have arms like steel pipes. In which case perfectly doable.
> 
> Go let an older labourer or a brickie get hold of your wrist.


Had an old LEO friend work out with use who we affectionately called Jimmy "the body" Johnson. He not look like anything special but damn was he strong. I don't care what joint manipulation or pressure point trick a person tried, if he knew it was coming it was not going to work. Had to work damn hard to distract him enough to get any kind of lock or breakaway on him.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 26, 2020)

IRL with someone who wanted to hurt me with the big kitchen knife, I was able to power stop. 
I checked their incoming hand and gripped their wrist and kept squeezing until they screamed and I kept telling them I would not let go until they let go of the knife. 
When they did I kept a hold of them stepped on the blade and then let go of them. 
..
As to disarms, they are windows of opportunity that flash by. If one is in the right place and recognizes it on time, to be able to react and execute then possible. 
Just my thoughts. 
Experiences will vary 
No one technique solves all problems
....


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## isshinryuronin (Dec 27, 2020)

If the big strong guy survives the first couple of cuts or stabs, doesn't bleed out, and can immobilize the knife hand, he can win.  He _will_ get cut if the knife fighter has some skill.  Otherwise, and most of the time, the knife fighter will win.


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## jobo (Dec 27, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> If the big strong guy survives the first couple of cuts or stabs, doesn't bleed out, and can immobilize the knife hand, he can win.  He _will_ get cut if the knife fighter has some skill.  Otherwise, and most of the time, the knife fighter will win.


well most of the time,, possibly,  maybe

kbife fightibg isnt that common that many people have a great deal of exsperiance of it, and very few people practice it, i would suggest,  rather just stick a knife in their pocket and go out for the night,

if you kbow he has a knife and you have room to move, alowing that you have basic fightibg skill of speed, reactions and mobility,  you have a fairly good chance

if he cant punch you, he probebly cant stab you either, if he over comits and misses  you should be able to take him out


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## isshinryuronin (Dec 27, 2020)

jobo said:


> if you kbow he has a knife and you have room to move, alowing that you have basic fightibg skill of speed, reactions and mobility, you have a fairly good chance



Basic fighting skill would only suffice if the knife wielder is very incompetent.  A bad guy carrying one probably has at least a little competence.  Knives are dangerous for the reason below:



jobo said:


> if he cant punch you, he probebly cant stab you either



Unlike a punch, a knife stab or slash needs little power to be effective.  Even using proper body mechanics, a good puncher needs a half foot to a foot distance to generate dangerous power.  And that's being generous.  A knife just needs - none.  It just needs to make contact.  Then, a flick of the wrist is capable of inflicting damage.  Anyone who underestimates the danger of a knife will end up losing blood or their life.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 27, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Basic fighting skill would only suffice if the knife wielder is very incompetent.  A bad guy carrying one probably has at least a little competence.  Knives are dangerous for the reason below:



What makes you think carrying a knife implies competence? I see people attacked with various weapons all the time. If this competence existed, I wouldn't see them. Because they would be dead.
The very fact that you're fighting with them implies that they do NOT have any competence with a blade. Because if they did, the blade would be deep inside you before you ever saw it.



> Unlike a punch, a knife stab or slash needs little power to be effective.  Even using proper body mechanics, a good puncher needs a half foot to a foot distance to generate dangerous power.  And that's being generous.  A knife just needs - none.  It just needs to make contact.  Then, a flick of the wrist is capable of inflicting damage.  Anyone who underestimates the danger of a knife will end up losing blood or their life.



Slashing is messy, but far less dangerous than people think. If you're stabbed pretty much anywhere on the torso, there's a really good chance we're going to be opening you up. Slash the same area, and there's a really good chance you'll get some sutures and be released. Inflicting more than superficial damage with "a flick of the wrist" requires an incredibly sharp blade (I do look at blades we take off people, and I can't recall the last time I found one to be really sharp). A really sharp blade will cut deeper, but that wrist flick isn't going to open a very long wound. Unlikely to be debilitating. Very unlikely to be fatal.


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## dvcochran (Dec 27, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> What makes you think carrying a knife implies competence? I see people attacked with various weapons all the time. If this competence existed, I wouldn't see them. Because they would be dead.
> The very fact that you're fighting with them implies that they do NOT have any competence with a blade. Because if they did, the blade would be deep inside you before you ever saw it.
> 
> 
> ...


Fully agree with your stabbing assertion. That said there is definitely an art to slashing that the average Joe does not know. 
Watch how the wrist rotates through the slice of the paper: WHAT IS SCARY SHARP?? How sharp can you get a knife freehand sharpening?...Pretty sharp! - YouTube
 A skilled slasher with a good blade can make a full depth cut with a slash making a much bigger opening. You should always have more control of the blade with a slash. If things go wrong with a stab they usually go very wrong. The mechanics of a stab usually mean you are fully committed with stance/weight.
All that said if it gets to the point where my only choice is to pull my blade I intend to do harm. But I almost always open carry so things have really went sideways if I have to pull out my knife.


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## CB Jones (Dec 28, 2020)

Bullsherdog said:


> *Can knife fights be won by simply overpowering an opponent?*
> /QUOTE]




Yes bullets trump blades.  Lol.


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## Buka (Dec 28, 2020)

If it's a knife fight, then both people have a knife. There are three possible outcomes -

He get slashed/stabbed, you don't. You get slashed/stabbed, he doesn't. You both get slashed/stabbed.

There's a two out of three chance you'll both be slashed/stabbed.

As a knife fighter, I care little about getting overpowered. To do that, he has to be close enough, his misfortune.

As far as disarms, I have absolutely no idea how to disarm a man with a knife if I am unarmed. I know how a lot of arts teach these things, but they're tactically unsound, some even foolish.

If I have a knife that's already in my hand, it's easier, but it's not a planned action, it's one of opportunity. And as DD said "the blade would be deep inside you before you ever saw it."

Knives are nasty.


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## Razznik (Feb 18, 2021)

Bullsherdog said:


> Saving Private Ryan's infamous knife fight scene has a German soldier win the clinch fight simply because he overpowers the Ranger guy and with terrifying bloodthirsty patience he simply waits for the knife to slowly push through until it enters through the Ranger's chest. And I must add the Ranger actually even brutally bites the German soldier so hard during the clinch blood splatters from his hand but he still ultimately manages to put the knife through with his horrifying endurance and strength.
> 
> However a fact about this scene that everyone forgets is.......... The whole reason the German soldier was able to stab the Ranger in the first place was because it was the Ranger who pulled out the knife and tried to stab the German. During the groundfight the German while atop him was so strong he manages to let go of one of his hands in the clinch and quickly use it to disarm the knife hand of the Ranger (which the Nazi was holding rather easily like a strong man with his left hand). Basically he was like a strongman who can make you tap out simply by squeezing your arm. Not lying watch the scene on Youtube. The Ranger's knife hand was literally stuck frozen and Nazi guy was also overpowering his empty arm so much that he didn't need to retaliate when he let go of his right hand to literally snatch the knife away from the Ranger's other hand like stealing baby from a candy.
> 
> I am curious in real life knife fights can be decided this way with imply having more endurance and strength and by sheer overpowering?


Yes, if you are strong enough, even launching a guy to the moon is possible XD


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## geezer (Feb 25, 2021)

GordonnotRamsay said:


> I personally think that it is possible for you to win in knife fights by simply overpowering an opponent. However, you need to make sure that you can definitely defeat your opponent because it might cause you to lose some of the things that you already unlocked or have your experience points decreased. So, yes you can definitely win in knife fights. Just make sure that you are strong enough to defeat your opponent. Gather all of the equipment you need and make sure that you have strong equipment! Well, I will defitnely wish you good luck and have a fun time.



I'm old and don't play video games, but even I got this. Nice sarcasm, Mr. Not Ramsey!


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