# Kelly McCanns knife techinques are they dangerous?



## Mider1985 (Sep 30, 2010)

Im not an expert ive never had a knife fight nor do i wanna. But from alot of experts they usually try to disarm you if you have a knife, in fact most experts say to simply run when your in a knife attack but if you cant that you have to take that gun away or at least have an equalizer. create distance till you can get out your own weapon such as a gun or another knife. Or take the attackers knife away. Knife fighting is really tricky not everyone comes at you like in the movie PYSCHO with the knife overhead etc etc. 

So I totally utterly respect Mister McCann and Im not saying this wont work because maybe it will he after all is an expert. But im just saying that from everything ive heard in self defense from experts like the Dog Brothers, Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak is to take that knife away or have another weapon.


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## WC_lun (Sep 30, 2010)

This short clip doesn't jive with what I was taught about weapon defense.  You try to isolate the threat.  Counting on a person to turn thier head from attacks isn't reliable, in my opinion.  Some people won't turn away and others will lash out reflexively with thier weapon.  Fighting someone with a weapon is always a dangerous option.  The key is to slant everything possible in your favor.  Not controlling the person or the weapon does not slant things in your favor.


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## Carol (Sep 30, 2010)

Why not train with a live instructor?


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## bribrius (Sep 30, 2010)

he covered and would have had a knife stuck in his gut.  stepped in on someone with a knife with no guard, and no control or real attempt to control the weapon.

i wouldn't advise it.


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## Bruno@MT (Oct 1, 2010)

He looks to me like one of those 'experts' who don't want anything to do with that 'traditional martial arts crap'.
First thing: his system is called self offense. I'm sure that any DA will have a field day with that.
Second: some of the things he showed would have him stuck like a pig with anything bigger than a box cutter.
Third: by focusing so hard on the hands, he really looks socially awkward (which does not help to defuse a situation) and he loses track of everything else. Look at the entire person, or the face / shoulders area, and be aware of the surroundings.
Fourth: pre-emptively beating the snot out of the other guy... that is going to get you some serious prison time if it turns out the other guy was just reaching for his cell phone or somethign else.

I'd say this was a FAIL.


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## punisher73 (Oct 1, 2010)

While I didn't agree with everything he said, it is a snapshot and one idea he is presenting not a total picture of his approach.

That being said, the couple of guys I have talked with who really fought a guy with a knife both employed a very similiar approach.  Immediately attack the person and incapcitate the arm/body to control the knife because you have taken out the other person.

Not saying that this is the only approach nor will it work everytime, but it is a tactic that does work.  It also involves a very aggressive mindset and awareness that needs to be there for it to work also.


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## frank raud (Oct 1, 2010)

Mccann briefly covered various options before showing what is his preferred method. As McCann spends most of his time teaching folks like Blackwater and various government orgs, there may be a different mindset than  a more defensive oriented art.

Does it work? Try it with a shock knife, you will get immediate feedback. Is it the only way? Of course not.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 1, 2010)

*It is hard to paint a picture from one brief video glimpse.*
While I do not like everything Kelly McCann shows he does
have some decent stuff.  That being said in my opinion he is 
not a top tier martial practitioner aka self defense 
expert but instead someone with some decent skills and 
a lot of marketing!

Now let's take a look at this particular clip.  One thing he
say's is not to watch their eyes.  This is correct because
if someone sees you staring at their eyes they can easily
fool you with them.  I do this all the time to people that
I work with it is easy and simple.  If I catch someone 
watching my eyes they will get hit and rather easily.  
I will look where I want them to think the attack is
coming and then simply attack some place else! (*simple to do*)
However to watch the *hand as he advises is not so good*.  Why?  
Because the hand is very fast and with some people 
very, very fast.  If you are watching the hand more 
than likely you would be cut before you could do 
anything.  However if you utilize all around periperal 
vision and focus on the shoulders and hips which 
in comparison move *very slowly* then you will 
increase your chances.  Some times just striking 
the other guy will work!  That part is true but...
control of the weapon bearing hand is a whole lot better
and works well particularly if you have already hit the attacker.
Still it may not be available or simply not needed as 
every situation is different.

As any good instructor would mention *run away* or 
*utilize an equalizer*, another tool to increase your
chances.  However, we all know that some times
you just cannot run or get a tool and your empty
hands will be it.  If that happens you are in really
deep you know what!  In that case generally the best 
thing to do is *create damage* on your opponent 
and *gain control over their weapon bearing hand* 
and *or over their body structure!*

*Once again very, very hard to tell anything about*
*someone from just a glimpse of what they do.*  Instead
in order to get an overall judgement it is better to 
have seen them teach, etc. in person!


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> Im not an expert ive never had a knife fight nor do i wanna. But from alot of experts they usually try to disarm you if you have a knife, in fact most experts say to simply run when your in a knife attack but if you cant that you have to take that gun away or at least have an equalizer. create distance till you can get out your own weapon such as a gun or another knife. Or take the attackers knife away. Knife fighting is really tricky not everyone comes at you like in the movie PYSCHO with the knife overhead etc etc.
> 
> So I totally utterly respect Mister McCann and Im not saying this wont work because maybe it will he after all is an expert. But im just saying that from everything ive heard in self defense from experts like the Dog Brothers, Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak is to take that knife away or have another weapon.


 
Actually, the principles are pretty sound. They are different than trying to disarm, but it's very much like what we teach in LE training, which is to by-pass the attack, clear off line, and then access our weapon.

Keep in mind the techniques in the video work BEST when you 'Pre-Empt' the attack, not in the middle of a sewing machine style prison attack.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 1, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> He looks to me like one of those 'experts' who don't want anything to do with that 'traditional martial arts crap'.
> First thing: his system is called self offense. I'm sure that any DA will have a field day with that.
> Second: some of the things he showed would have him stuck like a pig with anything bigger than a box cutter.
> Third: by focusing so hard on the hands, he really looks socially awkward (which does not help to defuse a situation) and he loses track of everything else. Look at the entire person, or the face / shoulders area, and be aware of the surroundings.
> ...


 
Ehhhh.....I don't know......Yes, it's possible you could clobber a clown who's reaching for a cell phone. But, then, why is he intentionally confronting you while blocking your path? Context is everything, and folks that would harm you don't carry around a sign that says 'Hey, i'm about to stab you in the gut'. 

The hands are what will kill you. Period. Being aware of the surroundings are important, but the hands are what will kill you. Be it a knife he comes out with are a .38.

If you can't pre-emptively attack a knifer or a gunman, you're WAY behind the curb, and may just die.

Personally i'm a much bigger fan of what Marc Denny is doing with his DLO material, and the training i've been getting in Garimot, but the concepts are sound from Kelly McCann, imho.


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## MJS (Oct 1, 2010)

I didn't think the clip was that bad.  Like Sgt said, I like the DLO stuff, as well as Redzone.  IMO, what he's showing is alot more effective than alot of the traditional stuff that we see in many arts.  

Control the weapon, and then counter strike or cover/control/strike, such as we saw in the clip.  As for the pre-empt stuff....well, in this case we're talking about a deadly weapon.  If someone was holding the weapon, and you fired off a shot before the guy had a chance to stab, slash, then IMO, you did the right thing.  Someone is that close to you, holding a weapon...well, lets look at what their motives are.  Are they going to use it?  Are they using it for the purpose of intimidation?  Sorry, I'm not going to wait to find out.  If I can get a good shot, that'll buy me time to hopefully get the hell out of there, I'm going to take it.  I'd be willing to bet, and I'm sure the LEOs here could vouch for this, but if they were on a mv stop or questioning someone on the street, and that person made any quick, sudden moves, that person would probably find themselves being brought to the ground very quick, or having a gun pointed at them.  

I agree with what Punisher said regarding the aggressive mindset.  IMO, if you're going to go ahead with a defense, this is the best way to go.


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## Josh Oakley (Oct 1, 2010)

Overall, I give it a B-minus.

It's already been said, but this "focus on the hands" is a dangerously foolish concept. My reasoning:

1) He has two hands. If you're looking one way, you can't see the other.
2) Peripheral vision will give you the pertinent information of his angle of attack more quickly.
3) If you're not already looking at the hand before the attack begins, the time it takes to observe and orientate to the hand is long enough that you could very likely be cut by the time you respond to the threat.
4) If you *are *aready looking, it's a provoking action. It clearly signals your intention to fight, and gives away how you intend to start. 

As for the overal technique, I mostly like it. *However*, taking some control of the shankin' hand would be preferrable, especially since one of his big objectives is _not_ to get cut. And it can easily be worked into the technique he's working with.


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## Mider1985 (Oct 1, 2010)

The only problem i have with the clip is that he doesnt take that knife away.


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## Bruno@MT (Oct 2, 2010)

frank raud said:


> Mccann briefly covered various options before showing what is his preferred method. As McCann spends most of his time teaching folks like Blackwater and various government orgs, there may be a different mindset than  a more defensive oriented art.
> 
> Does it work? Try it with a shock knife, you will get immediate feedback. Is it the only way? Of course not.



Organizations like blackwater are mercenaries for hire. I don't think they worry at all about beating up the wrong guy or the legality of what they are doing.

For regular civilians, preemptively beating up someone is not going to work. In his example, the weapon was not even visible so you are working on the assumption that a) there will be a weapon, and b) there will be an attack.


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## Bruno@MT (Oct 2, 2010)

MJS said:


> I didn't think the clip was that bad.  Like Sgt said, I like the DLO stuff, as well as Redzone.  IMO, what he's showing is alot more effective than alot of the traditional stuff that we see in many arts.
> 
> Control the weapon, and then counter strike or cover/control/strike, such as we saw in the clip.



In the clip, the weapon was hidden. So he didn't know there was one, and he didn't know what it would be. If he did that and the other guy was stabbing him with a dagger, he'd be hit really bad in the torso.



MJS said:


> As for the pre-empt stuff....well, in this case we're talking about a deadly weapon.  If someone was holding the weapon, and you fired off a shot before the guy had a chance to stab, slash, then IMO, you did the right thing.



Yes, but there was no weapon visible.
_Your honor, I shot him before he could do something because I thought he might have had a weapon_.


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## frank raud (Oct 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Organizations like blackwater are mercenaries for hire. I don't think they worry at all about beating up the wrong guy or the legality of what they are doing.
> 
> For regular civilians, preemptively beating up someone is not going to work. In his example, the weapon was not even visible so you are working on the assumption that a) there will be a weapon, and b) there will be an attack.


 
So, am I to understand that if you are confronted by an unknown person, and they are blocking your movement, you assume an assault won't be taking place, and they don't have a weapon?  

In Canada, where I live, the self defense laws allow you to pre-emptively strike(if you can justify it) "Criminal code section 36. Provocation includes, for the purposes of sections 34 and 35, provocation by blows, words or gestures. " 

McCann presents a scenario, and a solution. Is it THE solution? Mebbe not. He touches on the legal aspect, and the contradiction on occasion between actual self defense and the law. What I saw on the clip was McCann blocking an incoming blow and attacking, perhaps you saw something different.


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## jks9199 (Oct 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Organizations like blackwater are mercenaries for hire. I don't think they worry at all about beating up the wrong guy or the legality of what they are doing.
> 
> For regular civilians, preemptively beating up someone is not going to work. In his example, the weapon was not even visible so you are working on the assumption that a) there will be a weapon, and b) there will be an attack.


The professionals who work for companies like Blackwater (now called Xe) generally do care about obeying the law and the rules of engagement where they are working.  They also care about making it home to enjoy the money they're earning...  They have been more aggressive than official forces might like -- but they must stay within the law.   Don't get caught in the "mercenaries are evil" trap.  At various times in history, the majority of professional soldiers have been mercenaries.

As to the use of preemptive force -- as a general concept of US law (general caveat: I am not a lawyer nor is this legal advice), you may use reasonable force to protect yourself from IMMINENT attack.  The means you don't have to be shot, stabbed, punched, or whatever.  You can act as soon as you reasonably believe that the person was about to attack you.  Note, though, that some states may require you to retreat if possible and practical.  You'll have to justify your actions either way, as well.  And the force must be reasonable to the threat.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> _Your honor, I shot him before he could do something because I thought he might have had a weapon_.


 
Quite frankly, there are very real very legitimate situations where that has been said, and rightly so, and been found to be justified by the court. The real world isn't always so cut and dry.

A lot of it has to do with a phrase we use in law enforcement...'The Totality of the Circumstances'. 

You may end up shooting a guy who's gun you never saw based on his behavior and how it fit in to the totality of the circumstances.


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## MJS (Oct 2, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> In the clip, the weapon was hidden. So he didn't know there was one, and he didn't know what it would be. If he did that and the other guy was stabbing him with a dagger, he'd be hit really bad in the torso.


 
Just so I'm understanding correctly here...you're saying if the guy did a thrust to the stomach, the defender would be stabbed?  This clip seems to be predicated on the slash.  I'm sure, were the attack a thrust, the response would be different.  Then again, I've heard stories of people being cut, still fighting/defending themselves, and didn't realize they were cut until it was over.  





> Yes, but there was no weapon visible.
> _Your honor, I shot him before he could do something because I thought he might have had a weapon_.


 
Are we still talking about the clip?  If so, could you point me to that spot?  JKs and Sgtmac commented on this, so I can't add much more.   I still stand by that though...if someone is that close to me, and is making sudden or aggressive moves, I'm not waiting.


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## Mider1985 (Oct 3, 2010)

MJS said:


> Just so I'm understanding correctly here...you're saying if the guy did a thrust to the stomach, the defender would be stabbed? This clip seems to be predicated on the slash. I'm sure, were the attack a thrust, the response would be different. Then again, I've heard stories of people being cut, still fighting/defending themselves, and didn't realize they were cut until it was over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My overall problem with the clip is the not disarming the knife. Do you think he should have disarmed the guy or let him keep the weapon?


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## Mider1985 (Oct 3, 2010)

I prefer these disarms

This one is from Dennis Hanover a Isreali Krav Maga master its not him in the clip but he developed this form of Krav Maga





 
This is one from Dan Inosanto Knife fighting starts at 2:20 this is a beginner type of knife disarm as far as i can tell.





 
Here's a highlight clip from a Paul Vunak weapons seminar





 
This is from the Dog Brothers





 
DONT BOO ME ON THIS ONE. This next one is a Systema spetsnaz clip The First clip is were this guy did techinques in front of Gene Lebell and Gene Lebell liked em so yeah INSULT JUDO GENE AT YOUR OWN RISK.....dont become another steven seagal (just joking)


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## Chris Parker (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi Mider,

I'll start with the Jim Grover clip you started with. It's actually not a bad concept at all (small caveat here, my sound isn't working on my PC right now, so I'm only judging this, and the following, on the actions I can see). In terms of him not removing the knife, he seems to be going for a more "incapacitate them with brutal striking" approach, removing a weapon is more for when they can continue an assault. Personally, I'd prefer to remove it anyway, but not at the expence of a safe escape (in other words, if I have created a brief moment when I can escape, safely, then why would I sacrifice that escape just to stay and remove a weapon that is no longer threatening me?), particularly when such a small (and therefore awkward to remove) weapon is involved.... after all, in the heat of everything, I probably wouldn't even recognise that there was a weapon there. My only real issue is why he called it "Knife Disarms" when there were no disarms at all... hmm.

Now, to your next list. First to the Dennis Hanover group one. Frankly, I'm not really impressed with this one. For something realistic, it is quite lacking in regards to distance (which Jim had), and realistic responce from the knifeman. Add to that some very fine-motor actions, and we have a less-than recommended knife responce set here. He also lacks control of the knife from time to time, leaving him open to actually stabbing/cutting himself. The one at 0:31 is the best of the bunch here.

Dan Inosanto's clip. Hmm. Well, to again be completely frank, this, to me, is a series of movement drills, and if taken as realistic knife defence/response/disarms, then a better idea of reality may be needed. It appears to be essentially FMA-based drills to move a weapon from one side of the body to another, but it is simply not a realistic response against a modern knife assault, again taking no real response on the knifemans part into account, as well as being highly stylised (and therefore removed from what would actually be encountered) attacks, with little body movement. For a movement drill, great. For knife defence, well, that's not what it is designed for.

Paul's clip, well, it's not really knife defence at all. It's knife fighting. So I'm not sure what disarms you liked there. I saw a lot of things that I would recommend against, and some that is downright dangerous, to say the least. Not impressed with this one, to be honest. Again, it's FMA-based actions, which look very impressive, and are fast, so it's easy to get drawn into them, but the actual point, I feel, is typically missed if people think that that is good. What is good in the FMA blade responses is the flow, and the control of the weapon/weapon hand, and these drills are just a way to get that skill. However these are not really good knife defences/disarms, frankly.

As for the Dog Brothers one, did you actually watch the clip before you posted it? It's an intro to a tape of theirs, and shows very little knife defence/disarming at all, in fact, when they do, it's typically pixelated out. That said, the Dog Brothers here have a very realistic understanding of what knife violence is actually about, so they're my top choice out of the presented ones so far.

Vadim Starov's approach is very Systema, it must be said (a bit different from the FMA approach of most here!). I'd have a few issues with the lack of control or realistic response from the knifeman again... Judo Gene may like them, but I'd want to take it through a bit of pressure testing before I put my life behind those actions, honestly.

A favourite of mine would be (again an FMA-based one) Michael Janich. Michael, along with his LEO training partner, started investigating Fairbairns "Timetable of Death", to ensure that the vaunted knowledge was accurate, and found that it wasn't. That began his search for a highly realistic approach to knife combat, and includes response against blades as well. He might look like an accountant, but when it comes to blades, he is definately someone to listen to, in my opinion.


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## MJS (Oct 3, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> My overall problem with the clip is the not disarming the knife. Do you think he should have disarmed the guy or let him keep the weapon?


 
Well yeah, in the ideal situation, take the weapon.  There are some techs that return the weapon to the sender, meaning, the knife is redirected and directed back into the person, be it their leg, chest, stomach, etc.  In that case, no, I'm probably not going to pull the knife out.   Again, I am not affiliated,  nor have I trained with Kelly, but it seems to me that his defenses are set on overwhelming the person.  No idea whether or not the thought of disarming, is entering the picture, with the way they train.



Mider1985 said:


> I prefer these disarms
> 
> This one is from Dennis Hanover a Isreali Krav Maga master its not him in the clip but he developed this form of Krav Maga
> 
> ...


 
I like the Dog Bros DLO stuff, however, it sucks that half the clip is blocked out. LOL.  Guess thats a tease to get you to buy the dvd.  

I look at it like this...there are countless techs that address weapons.  If I had a dollar for every time someone bashed Krav Maga, I'd be rich, yet compared to some other knife techs I've seen, I'd take the KM ones anyday.  For me...I tend to avoid alot of the Kenpo knife, in favor of the FMA knife work, with some other stuff mixed in.  

As for the clips you just posted....yeah, theres some good stuff IMO.


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## WC_lun (Oct 3, 2010)

I judge knife techniques on some criteria.  Is the threat being neutralized? If the knife is not being isolated and neutralized, it isn't good knife self-defense.  Is the technique increasing the risk of decreasing the risk of being cut?  If the odds go up of being cut due to the technique, then it is poor knife self-defense.  Does the anti-knife technique take into account the live nature of real self defense?  This is the one I see answered in the negative the most.  A lot of instruction by unproven theory.


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## Mider1985 (Oct 3, 2010)

MJS said:


> Well yeah, in the ideal situation, take the weapon. There are some techs that return the weapon to the sender, meaning, the knife is redirected and directed back into the person, be it their leg, chest, stomach, etc. In that case, no, I'm probably not going to pull the knife out.  Again, I am not affiliated, nor have I trained with Kelly, but it seems to me that his defenses are set on overwhelming the person. No idea whether or not the thought of disarming, is entering the picture, with the way they train.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Now im not sure but i think that Denny was punching the guys arm in some of his disarming techinques. It might have been in another video. See punching the arm like Kelly Mccann does is part of Kali and Filipino Martial arts. Punching the arm and also slaming your elbow into it while its in a weak structual position is limb destruction. Kali is full of stuff like that from stomping a guys shin and such to outright breaking a limb.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 3, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> Now im not sure but i think that Denny was punching the guys arm in some of his disarming techinques. It might have been in another video. See punching the arm like Kelly Mccann does is part of Kali and Filipino Martial arts. Punching the arm and also slaming your elbow into it while its in a weak structual position is limb destruction. Kali is full of stuff like that from stomping a guys shin and such to outright breaking a limb.


 
With the DLO 'Dog Catcher' he's not striking the arm. There is a strike intrinsic with the 'Dog Catcher' but it's not with the hands or feet, it's a headbutt, driving the head in to the other guys chin as you drive forward to intercept the blade hand.

The headbutt, as illustrated, is very effective. I had been taught something very similar in Garimot Arnis, where the head is used to drive your opponent backwards and off balance.  It's a very good way of changing the direction of the action, and completely throwing your opponent off his aggressive attack, and in to trying to backpedal.  Done right it may even render him unconscious.


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## MJS (Oct 3, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> Now im not sure but i think that Denny was punching the guys arm in some of his disarming techinques. It might have been in another video. See punching the arm like Kelly Mccann does is part of Kali and Filipino Martial arts. Punching the arm and also slaming your elbow into it while its in a weak structual position is limb destruction. Kali is full of stuff like that from stomping a guys shin and such to outright breaking a limb.


 
The FMAs use more of a gunting move, rather than a punch.  Its a scissoring movement.


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## punisher73 (Oct 4, 2010)

Josh Oakley said:


> Overall, I give it a B-minus.
> 
> It's already been said, but this "focus on the hands" is a dangerously foolish concept. My reasoning:
> 
> ...


 
Good points, overall, I just don't like to rely on peripheral vision because in a high stress situation that is the first to go.  That is why they teach scanning to LEO's and others and pivot the whole body etc. to sweep to make sure you see everything you need to.


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## tim_stl (Oct 5, 2010)

WC_lun said:


> If the knife is not being isolated and neutralized, it isn't good knife self-defense.



this is the bottom line, in my opinion.  any defense within the reach of the weapon that doesn't isolate and control relies on the attacker reacting in a way that doesn't involve stabbing you.  for people that won't assume that an assailant is unarmed, it amazes me that they assume that the attacker will cease attacking once contact is made.



tim


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 5, 2010)

tim_stl said:


> this is the bottom line, in my opinion. any defense within the reach of the weapon that doesn't isolate and control relies on the attacker reacting in a way that doesn't involve stabbing you. for people that won't assume that an assailant is unarmed, it amazes me that they assume that the attacker will cease attacking once contact is made.
> 
> 
> 
> tim


 
I'll defer to tim's expertise on this matter.


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## tim_stl (Oct 5, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> I'll defer to tim's expertise on this matter.



i won't claim to be an expert, i just believe that relying on the opponent to react (or not react) in a particular way is unsafe.  i prefer to err on the side of caution, especially when a blade is involved.



tim


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## Mider1985 (Oct 6, 2010)

MJS said:


> Well yeah, in the ideal situation, take the weapon. There are some techs that return the weapon to the sender, meaning, the knife is redirected and directed back into the person, be it their leg, chest, stomach, etc. In that case, no, I'm probably not going to pull the knife out.  Again, I am not affiliated, nor have I trained with Kelly, but it seems to me that his defenses are set on overwhelming the person. No idea whether or not the thought of disarming, is entering the picture, with the way they train.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Im sure Dan Inosanto knows more disarming techinques then just the one shown. What didnt you like about the systema clip? Is it that he just slaps the knife out of the hand? When another systema guy explained it (works with the guy in the clip) he said that when your striking the arm your striking were your pulse is..........i guess that is a weak spot? Yeah i know that the Dog Brothers was heavily pixilated but i think i HEARD yes HEARD Denny punching a guys arm so he would weaken the hold on the knife.


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## MJS (Oct 6, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> Im sure Dan Inosanto knows more disarming techinques then just the one shown. What didnt you like about the systema clip? Is it that he just slaps the knife out of the hand? When another systema guy explained it (works with the guy in the clip) he said that when your striking the arm your striking were your pulse is..........i guess that is a weak spot? Yeah i know that the Dog Brothers was heavily pixilated but i think i HEARD yes HEARD Denny punching a guys arm so he would weaken the hold on the knife.


 
I dont believe I said that I didn't like the Systema clip.  Actually, I would like to go back and watch them all again.  

As for the punching....hey, who am I to comment on something Marc does.  He's been doing this a hell of alot long than I.   If it works for him, great.  For me, I'm not against the punching, but....I'd want to make sure that if I was going to punch, gunt, etc, that I'm hitting the best places, to get maximum results.  I mean, IMO, its one thing to start punching away, but its another if you're hitting specific areas, to get that maximum effect.


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## Chris Parker (Oct 6, 2010)

I think he meant me, Mike. If Mider can clarify that, I'll respond to his questions.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 7, 2010)

tim_stl said:


> i won't claim to be an expert, i just believe that relying on the opponent to react (or not react) in a particular way is unsafe. i prefer to err on the side of caution, especially when a blade is involved.
> 
> 
> 
> tim


 
I defer to your expertise because you know more about knife work than me, as i've seen in person.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 7, 2010)

Mider1985 said:


> Im sure Dan Inosanto knows more disarming techinques then just the one shown. What didnt you like about the systema clip? Is it that he just slaps the knife out of the hand? When another systema guy explained it (works with the guy in the clip) he said that when your striking the arm your striking were your pulse is..........i guess that is a weak spot? Yeah i know that the Dog Brothers was heavily pixilated but i think i HEARD yes HEARD Denny punching a guys arm so he would weaken the hold on the knife.


 
Having seen all three DLO's I don't recall seeing Denny punching a guys arm, though it's possible.

The only strike in the 'Dog Catcher' material I recall seeing is a headbutt, which kind of seems to serve the same purpose as striking someone with a knife, without giving up the need to control the knife wielding hand.

Much as, and tim can correct me if i'm wrong here, the 'Monkey' aspect of HARIMAW BUNO/Garimot tends to do, using the head to drive the opponent off his center of gravity, as the body follows the head.


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## tim_stl (Oct 7, 2010)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Having seen all three DLO's I don't recall seeing Denny punching a guys arm, though it's possible.



i think the confusion may come about because the promo clips are blurred, and filipino arts are known for limb destructions.  for those who haven't seen the 'die less often' material, the 'dog catcher' isn't a strike (a punch or a gunting), it's a catch that leads to a control.  hence, dog catcher.



sgtmac_46 said:


> The only strike in the 'Dog Catcher' material I recall seeing is a headbutt, which kind of seems to serve the same purpose as striking someone with a knife, without giving up the need to control the knife wielding hand.
> 
> Much as, and tim can correct me if i'm wrong here, the 'Monkey' aspect of HARIMAW BUNO/Garimot tends to do, using the head to drive the opponent off his center of gravity, as the body follows the head.



correct, although it's not a particularly monkey-flavored option, just an option that i prefer and emphasize.



tim


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## Mider1985 (Nov 27, 2010)

I love FMA


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## Chris Parker (Nov 28, 2010)

Er, okay? Good, well done for you, but could we have some context please? I'm not really sure why you resurrected the thread after nearly two months for that non-comment (especially when there are actual questions to you that you could have answered instead...)


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