# And Here's an Interesting One...



## tellner (Nov 20, 2007)

A Paramedic balances his duties as a citizen and a medical professional professional by telling an armed robber to drop his weapon, shooting him when he refused, and then saving his life.



> *Paramedic shoots, then saves robbery suspect*
> 
> *Posted by Kim Crawford | The Flint Journal November 19, 2007 21:00PM*
> 
> ...


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 20, 2007)

At first I was puzzled as to why a paramedic was carrying agun, but then I realised he was a deputy.  Oh well.  At least he has a very good sense of his civic duty, in all its aspects.


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## MJS (Nov 20, 2007)

Yes, I had to re-read that too, as I was confused until I realized it was a LEO.  Nice to see everything worked out.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 20, 2007)

One heck of a way to keep in practice


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## jks9199 (Nov 20, 2007)

I don't see a problem with how this went down, from what was here.

But, as an aside, there are a couple of ways that you might find a paramedic with a gun.  First, some cops are volunteer firefighters or medics.  Second, various specialties require medics, like SWAT/tactical teams & helicopter flight officers.  Finally, there are some agencies where cops are firefighters or paramedics, too.  What they do depends on where they're assigned that day.


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## newGuy12 (Nov 20, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> One heck of a way to keep in practice


That's funny.


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## Andy Moynihan (Nov 20, 2007)

A noble effort, but, I think, wasted on the lifeform in question.


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## Steel Tiger (Nov 20, 2007)

Andy Moynihan said:


> A noble effort, but, I think, wasted on the lifeform in question.


 
There is that.  The deputy's kharma is pretty solid though.


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## bushidomartialarts (Nov 20, 2007)

Good on him for being able to do both duties without hesitation.

Anybody here ever think about if they'd do first aid on an attacker they had to neutralize?  This guy was an LEO, but for us civilians that seems like a way to minimize your chances of seeing charges or a lawsuit....


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## thardey (Nov 20, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Good on him for being able to do both duties without hesitation.
> 
> Anybody here ever think about if they'd do first aid on an attacker they had to neutralize?  This guy was an LEO, but for us civilians that seems like a way to minimize your chances of seeing charges or a lawsuit....



Unless it's for malpractice . . .


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## Guardian (Nov 20, 2007)

Just excellent for this deputy and paramedic.  Most states have a good samaritian act that covers someone trying to help in a life or death situation.  I'm curious if anyone has had any experiences with defending themselves and then helping someone, I'm not sure if that act would work in the same manner under those circumstances.  Might be nice to know.


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## Cruentus (Nov 20, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> At first I was puzzled as to why a paramedic was carrying agun, but then I realised he was a deputy.  Oh well.  At least he has a very good sense of his civic duty, in all its aspects.



hehe...given that it is Genesee County, I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply a paramedic with a gun. They need them...


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 20, 2007)

tellner said:


> A Paramedic balances his duties as a citizen and a medical professional professional by telling an armed robber to drop his weapon, shooting him when he refused, and then saving his life.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/dangerous.cities.ap/index.html


Flint is number three on this list. Not good.

They also have a local news show that does nothing but show pictures and cases of fugitives and live call in to help locate them. 

So how bad is it when the city is bankrupt and the state bails it out and then goes bankrupt themselves and has to raise taxes retroactively just to keep going and then looks into doing it more to balance more over spending. 

Then you have the TV show I mention and the listing or ranking, and then the fact that this is not the first time a felon has tried to escape a local autority and was either shot or got away. I was actually involved with one unknowingly last year, driving through Pontiac as they were closing off roads to try to control escape routes if they had gotten out of the court and into a vehicle. 

I agree the EMT Deputy did his job in both cases. I agree that it was nice that he could keep him alive, to continue with the process. But I am sure that his family will bring suit for police brutality, as they do all the time in this state. 

Sorry for my poor attitude and rantings on this subject and the local conditions.


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## KenpoTex (Nov 23, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Good on him for being able to do both duties without hesitation.
> 
> Anybody here ever think about if they'd do first aid on an attacker they had to neutralize? This guy was an LEO, but for us civilians that seems like a way to minimize your chances of seeing charges or a lawsuit....


 
whole thread on that topic here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33078&highlight=aid+attacker


I for one definately would NOT render aid to an attacker unless I had a legal obligation to do so.


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## Jai (Nov 23, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> I for one definately would NOT render aid to an attacker unless I had a legal obligation to do so.


 
Agreed. There is a reason the bastard is like that in the first place. I would show little compassion to someone who I had to use such measures against.


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## newGuy12 (Nov 23, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> whole thread on that topic here:
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33078&highlight=aid+attacker
> 
> 
> I for one definately would NOT render aid to an attacker unless I had a legal obligation to do so.



Right!  I would *GET AWAY* and then call 911.  Besides, I am not trained in any first aide!


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## jks9199 (Nov 24, 2007)

newGuy12 said:


> Right!  I would *GET AWAY* and then call 911.  Besides, I am not trained in any first aide!


I'd like to strongly encourage you to change that, and soon.  The few hours invested in a Red Cross Community First Aid & CPR course or similar program are well worth the time.  You never know when you'll need to know first aid... and when you need it is too late.

But... would I render aid to someone who had just attacked me?  Yes, as soon as I could, and if I could do so safely.  If I hurt someone, it's my moral responsibility to help mitigate that injury.  That may be limited to calling 911 or summoning rescue, or it may include providing treatment.


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## tellner (Nov 24, 2007)

It really depends on whom. My compassion for all sentient beings does not extend to giving a bad guy a second shot at me so that I can patch him up. If he's flatlined I might well give him CPR. If he's calmed down I put traction on a broken  leg if I'm absolutely sure he's not going to grab or stab when I get close enough. 

If he was trying to rape my little god-daughter with a broken Coke bottle or got shot invading my home, then screw him. He's a threat as long as he's capable of holding a weapon and is not retreating at high speed. Neutralize the threat. Get the innocents to safety. Call the authorities. Treat my own injuries. Then and only then _consider _helping him. His well-being is so far down the list of priorities that you might need the Hubble telescope to see it. 

At the last law enforcement training seminar I was involved in the instructor put it this way:



> First you go home.
> Then your partner goes home.
> Then the citizen goes home.
> Then the scumbag goes home.


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## Brad Dunne (Nov 24, 2007)

Get that deputy back to weapons training. :shooter:


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## Darth F.Takeda (Nov 27, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Good on him for being able to do both duties without hesitation.
> 
> Anybody here ever think about if they'd do first aid on an attacker they had to neutralize? This guy was an LEO, but for us civilians that seems like a way to minimize your chances of seeing charges or a lawsuit....


 

 I would let him die. If I put the bullets into him, then I obviously want him dead as you shot to kill not wound. But I am not a madic or working for a Goverment, someone comming at me and mine is a personal situation, if I was a Soldier or Cop, then yes I would try to save him if it was determinde it be better to pump him for info than add to the body count.

 Remeber the Medic in Iraq who was shot on camera by an Insurgent sniper? The medic was saved by his body armour and they shot the sniper. then the medic saved his life.
 Anther was when a Marine Scout-Sniper shot an Iraqi soldier durring the invasion. After the Marines took the bridge they found the guy alive. The Marine sniper who shot him assisted in first aid and held the guys hand untill he was medivaced. Thso situations I feel are noble actions but someone trying to hurt me and mine are better off dead.


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