# Stance Work & WC Steps



## Yoshiyahu (Dec 7, 2008)

I was woundering What sorta of Stancework(Steps) Your lineage does.

Over the years from practicing the Wing Chun steps I have discovered alot. For instance every step is a kick and every kick is also a step. But steps can be use to add more power in your hand techniques be it Punch, Wrist lock or throw. 

My lineage does what my Sihing calls the Plumflower stance work.

*Here are our basic steps:*

1.C-Step foward
2.C-Step Bacwards
3.Front Step
4.Back Step
5.Diamond Step (Counter Step)
6.Side Step
7.Body turning(Parallel Stance)

What are some of your steps?


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## Si-Je (Dec 9, 2008)

1.  basic stance and stepping
2.  advance stance and stepping (I like to call it wedge stance cause it works better as a wedge into your opponent's stance)
3.  Humbo stepping
4.  pivot
5.  step and pivot (whatever it's called)
     5. a) humbo step and pivot (whatever that's called, lol!)
6. kick and step

I like to teach folks to get very versitile with basic stance asap.  To move in all four or more diirections.  -  I.E. stepping with it at 45 degrees, 90 degrees (foreward, always forward), forward, to both sides, walking and running in basic.

(I used to have the kids put a ball between their knees and have races to see who could get to the wall first without loosing their ball.  They loved that one!)

We don't practice stepping backwards, everything is always forward.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 9, 2008)

What do you when someone is throwing kicks to fast for you block. Do you stand there? What if the forward pressure is to great?


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## Si-Je (Dec 9, 2008)

WC kicks cancel out the opponents kick.  using heel kick to stop the execution of the kicking leg or standing leg.  Then, later you learn, garn sau to stop the kicker at the first kick, stepping into their stance, throwing them to the ground by going forward.
Humbo stepping with "advance" stance (wedge) into opponent's stance effectively stepping "around" the kicking leg and into the very spot that the attacker is standing in.  Taking his space away for more kicking or punching (in most styles) displaceing his structure for further kicking.

See, if you back up, dodge, or block the first kick you give them time, and opportunity to follow up with kick combinations, follow up, and allow them to "reset" for further attack.
stop the first attack, kick, punch, whatever...

Emin tells it best here in #1:  He demonstrates humbo step. (steping in a half circular motion as you step forward into opponent in advanced stance,  i.e. one foot in front of the other stance.)




More in depth in #3 





He shows a couple of closer ranges in the 4th one here:


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 9, 2008)

Well what if you want to do some kicking to your diaphram or stomach. I love to set up the side kick against them. I like to use evasive techniques to piss my opponent off. I like to trick them by using feints, When they take a weak step in I like to back fist the face or stomp kick the knee or scrape kick the shins. This usually wears them down. With all the constant back fist, Feints, Pak Sau to their gaurds a Pak Gurk to their legs it really gets their goat. Eventually they want to over commit an bridge the gap an go inside. When in clinch I can use chainpunches,Torque punch, Wing Chun C-steps and full front steps for whole body power behind the punch. Palm Strikes to face Ridge hand strikes to neck and throat and also elbows and knees up close an personal. Then when I am able grab the neck an force them down on their stomach so I can stomp.


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## Si-Je (Dec 9, 2008)

Sounds groovy to me.
I don't usually like to bait or piss people off anymore in a confrontation.  (My natural personality usually takes care of that for me! lol!)  I did when I was young and immortal!
Got too many old martial arts and work injuries, popped out a kid, and I'd rather just get it all over with asap.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 9, 2008)

Well sense I am smaller guy. I usually try this tactic to wear them down.

When i feel they are sore and fatigued to where they can not use their superior strength to their advantage or the over committ providing me with openings I use my speed and flowing techniques to overwhelm them inside where I can generate the most power!


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## mook jong man (Dec 9, 2008)

As Si -Je said you want to be stepping into the attacker , he has a prefered range he wants to fight at which is kicking range any less than that range and he starts to feel uncomfortable .

 We want to fight at punching range where we can bring our sticking hands to bear and be able to generate punching power in a small range that he cannot . In my lineage in Sigungs school in Hong Kong they don't get taught any kicking till after four years , they don't have to ,their footwork is so fast they can step into the attacker before his foot is hardly  off the ground and be in their face . 

My Sifu was a little less traditional so a typical defence would be if I had no warning I would raise my knee and guard with my knee to my elbow in what we called full guard or hanging horse stance protecting my centerline .

 Then I either jam the kick with my heel or it gets deflected off my shin or guard then I can step down and launch my own kick or simply depending on the range step down and start punching . It all depends on how much warning and time you have that dictates the response .


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## Si-Je (Dec 9, 2008)

okay. cool, but don't like the waiting 4 years to kick thing.  good deal Sifu Fung didn't do that too.
I find it much easier to punch hubbie after I kick him in the knee.  (can't reach his face it's a foot above my head!  And his arms are almost as long as my leg!)

And, plus, it always seems that big guys always have bad knees.  So this has been working pretty well for me so far.

I really, really want to train more leg sensitivity like what I've seen online at some schools.  Looks soooo cool!  Like rubber legs rolling around a attackers kick, sweep, or whatever.  I've done some, but I like to drill.  
And the similar looking techniques on the ground with the legs too.  Need to get a mat!  Mommy's got a bad back!

Most fav. to learn next, is the hook kick used as a "hooking" motion on the attackers kicking leg, with WC side kick follow up on the back leg.  Cool, cool.  Need to practice that one alot more, it seems more useful to me than just Kicking the opponent's leg with Hook kick.


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## mook jong man (Dec 9, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> okay. cool, but don't like the waiting 4 years to kick thing. good deal Sifu Fung didn't do that too.
> I find it much easier to punch hubbie after I kick him in the knee. (can't reach his face it's a foot above my head! And his arms are almost as long as my leg!)
> 
> And, plus, it always seems that big guys always have bad knees. So this has been working pretty well for me so far.
> ...


 
I can safely say if Sifu Jim did teach that way to Aussies he probably would have had about 3 students , not enough to even pay the electricity bill on the place lol .

Yes they also so do about 5 or 6 hours of hard chi sau every night and as i said in another thread not many western people would be able to hack that type of training . 

Yes the hook kick can be used to deflect a straight kick or roundhouse kick and then WC side kick to knee . Just make sure in the case of the roundhouse you intercept with the shin into the upper inner thigh because it doesn't matter how high they kick that part stays in relatively the same position .

 Also try adding a little bit of oomph into it from your hips when raising your hook kick this can disrupt their stance and take them right off their feet with no need for WC sidekick follow up .
Its the little things that make all the difference


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## Si-Je (Dec 9, 2008)

I love the little things!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 9, 2008)

Interesting, My Sifu taught me how to fight inside and outside. Alot of Wing Chun fighters can not do this unless they are really big. Or muscular. But I can generate power from long ranges in my kicks or short ranges with my punches. I also have a couple of Hung Gar and Tai Chi hand techniques I use for long range attacks as well along with the long range kicks. I use short range kicks and knees for close distances. I can also switch to boxing if have to in order to confuse my opponent. But I agree with the close distance. My Sifu also taught us how to punish a kick or fist by trapping it with elbow and knee. I haven't practice it much recently so I am not as accurate as I use to be! When i was a teenager I would often trap peoples fist that way or just hurt their attacking hand with a downward elbow. It stop most boxers from throwing body shots. I usually start off non-traditional to feel my opponent out. I adapt to his fighting style an utilize the principles that will best defeat his strategy. If He has a strong outside game. I use evasive tactics to wear him down and make him want to commit because he thinks that I don't know how to defend inside.

Most of the time with TKD guys and some Karate guys. When they see you throw kicks like a Kick boxer they figure you do a Japanese or Thailand Art. So they attempt to go inside an use their power. When they do I utilize the wing chun. On the outside I use basic kick boxing and judo self defense. On inside I use Wing Chin and Chin-na if I can. I also mix up Tai Chi strikes and Hung gar strikes to seriously hurt my opponent as well as confuse him.

Now if its just a sparring match. Thats another story. If I am sparring with a friend I don't use outside boxing as much. I try to charge the center and take advantage. An show him his openings. I feel for his openings an then strike high an kick low. I try different wrist locks while kicking the body or legs. etc. I use jut sao to take him off his foundation. Or I use pak sau to disrupt his guards. Some times I use an Axe kick to rake down the guards. Axe kick is from the tiger crane of course. But its useful especially if fighting a boxer who has his guards in front of him. Usually a hard kick with a tennis shoe to wrist is what you need to make him keep his hands down or closer to his body. Where he has less time to react or slap box your hands down.



mook jong man said:


> As Si -Je said you want to be stepping into the attacker , he has a prefered range he wants to fight at which is kicking range any less than that range and he starts to feel uncomfortable .
> 
> We want to fight at punching range where we can bring our sticking hands to bear and be able to generate punching power in a small range that he cannot . In my lineage in Sigungs school in Hong Kong they don't get taught any kicking till after four years , they don't have to ,their footwork is so fast they can step into the attacker before his foot is hardly off the ground and be in their face .
> 
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 10, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> When i was a teenager I would often trap peoples fist that way or just hurt their attacking hand with a downward elbow. It stop most boxers from throwing body shots. I usually start off non-traditional to feel my opponent out. I adapt to his fighting style an utilize the principles that will best defeat his strategy. If He has a strong outside game. I use evasive tactics to wear him down and make him want to commit because he thinks that I don't know how to defend inside..


 
Good mindset!  With boxer's I usually end up stepping on their foot.  (I hate having to chase an opponent!)  



Yoshiyahu said:


> Most of the time with TKD guys and some Karate guys. When they see you throw kicks like a Kick boxer they figure you do a Japanese or Thailand Art. So they attempt to go inside an use their power. When they do I utilize the wing chun. .


 
With these guys I've found that simple heel kicking their kicking attack really freaks them out.  Espectially when you just stand there in basic, not bouncing around.  They think your not ready, or not agressive enough to react and usually come in hard to end you.  Again, it's fun to pop up that heel kick right in the gut, they hardly ever see it coming and fall for it almost everytime.  
Then, they start moving around you at a distance when they figure they can't just come straight into you.  But, since I'm not moving around alot they assume that I can't turn when the try to flank me.  Had one girl feint, and as I stepped in with heel kick dodge to my side.  It was a big surprise to her when my heel kick turned into a side kick in midair with a pivot to catch her in the gut again.

But, I'm pretty simple with sparring and defense.  Whatever elese happens is up to my body, it sorta takes a mind of it's own when I'm not paying attention to it.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 10, 2008)

Si-Je mind of its own when sparring sounds like Wu Wei. You are sparring with out trying too. Thats great. Keep up what you doing.


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## mook jong man (Dec 10, 2008)

That is the great thing about Wing Chun attacks and defences they are non - committed and can be interrupted and converted into something else in the blink of an eye.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

I totally agree, Non-committed an can switch and flow the next attack or defense.




mook jong man said:


> That is the great thing about Wing Chun attacks and defences they are non - committed and can be interrupted and converted into something else in the blink of an eye.


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

I tell hubbie that Wing Chun is like a cheap date, easy, cheap, and with no commitment. lol!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

No No don't say that. Even a cheap date can turn into a committment especially if you father a child. Opps now your committed. Lol...
Atleast for eightyears you are.




Si-Je said:


> I tell hubbie that Wing Chun is like a cheap date, easy, cheap, and with no commitment. lol!


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> No No don't say that. Even a cheap date can turn into a committment especially if you father a child. Opps now your committed. Lol...
> Atleast for eightyears you are.


 

lol!
Thus, being so un-committed, once committed the commitment is more solid and binding. lol!
Maybe I should be committed!

Anyways, I just like having fun with the training.  Makes me learn more.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

lol, I think Wing Chun is alot of fun. I guess it has to grown on you though. Not everyone can have a love for gung fu!


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

It is fun!  By the time it grows on you, it gets in your blood and becomes you!  
Then your a total WC/WT junkie! lol!


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

Si-Je I totally agree you. It does grow on you if you like Gung Fu. You even have dreams of it


Si-Je*Re: Stance Work & WC Steps*
It is fun! By the time it grows on you, it gets in your blood and becomes you! 
Then your a total WC/WT junkie! lol!


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## Si-Je (Dec 11, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> Si-Je I totally agree you. It does grow on you if you like Gung Fu. You even have dreams of it
> quote]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 11, 2008)

When I fist started practicing my Sifu said the same thing happen to him. He would wake his wife swinging and kicking an still be sleep!




Si-Je said:


> Yoshiyahu said:
> 
> 
> > Si-Je I totally agree you. It does grow on you if you like Gung Fu. You even have dreams of it
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> As Si -Je said you want to be stepping into the attacker , he has a prefered range he wants to fight at which is kicking range any less than that range and he starts to feel uncomfortable ..



I'm pretty good at coming into him, he's just having me do more and coming in even closer now.  Doing the arm locks, takedowns, head throws, where you usually come in so much your to the side or almost totally behind him.
That's been fun, when I don't head throw him right into myself. lol!




mook jong man said:


> We want to fight at punching range where we can bring our sticking hands to bear and be able to generate punching power in a small range that he cannot . In my lineage in Sigungs school in Hong Kong they don't get taught any kicking till after four years , they don't have to ,their footwork is so fast they can step into the attacker before his foot is hardly off the ground and be in their face . .


 
Got the punching range, now he wants more bui gee and open hand.  Plus working on spear hand strikes to his spleen and liver and back, when I get that close (body and shoulder to shoulder)  Punching him is difficult because he's so tall, his shoulder gets in the way.  I've been heel kicking as I come in to bring him down, but he wants me to get closer first now.  Wedge in with advanced stance into his stance and work from there.  I.e. kick from there, punch from there, joint locks, throws etc.



mook jong man said:


> My Sifu was a little less traditional so a typical defence would be if I had no warning I would raise my knee and guard with my knee to my elbow in what we called full guard or hanging horse stance protecting my centerline .


 
Yes he was.  Love him to peices!  Is he really the only one that incorporates Dai Sau?  I love this move, and the range of applications it has is awesome.  I can't believe no one else uses Dai Sau!


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## mook jong man (Dec 12, 2008)

> Yes he was. Love him to peices! Is he really the only one that incorporates Dai Sau? I love this move, and the range of applications it has is awesome. I can't believe no one else uses Dai Sau!


 
I don't know if anyone else does it , really it is only a modified form of Bong Sau , instead of wrist on center line , the finger tips are and it is driven straight up from the elbow . 

Some one told me that he designed it when he first came to Australia to counter the boxers hook , I don't know if its true or not that's just what I heard . I never asked him when he was alive because I just naturally thought every Wing Chun had it .


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> I don't know if anyone else does it , really it is only a modified form of Bong Sau , instead of wrist on center line , the finger tips are and it is driven straight up from the elbow .
> 
> Some one told me that he designed it when he first came to Australia to counter the boxers hook , I don't know if its true or not that's just what I heard . I never asked him when he was alive because I just naturally thought every Wing Chun had it .


 

That's what I thought for over two years of training, until I started getting online and watching videos from other schools.  I'd see videos of shorter people using tan sau against a hook punch from a taller person and I'd wonder, "why aren't they using dai sau?"  I just figured they were more advanced in their training than I.  (Hubbie is trying to get me to start using tan sau on hook punches, but his monkey arms freak me out!   lol!  I keep feeling like I'm going to get hit.)


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## mook jong man (Dec 12, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> That's what I thought for over two years of training, until I started getting online and watching videos from other schools. I'd see videos of shorter people using tan sau against a hook punch from a taller person and I'd wonder, "why aren't they using dai sau?" I just figured they were more advanced in their training than I. (Hubbie is trying to get me to start using tan sau on hook punches, but his monkey arms freak me out! lol! I keep feeling like I'm going to get hit.)


 
I'm not a huge fan of tan sau against hooks , the timing has to be perfect and your tan sau has to be facing exactly the right direction to his force . If your a bit late the the attackers punch can act a bit like a pak sau and sweep your tan sau aside and you get hit .

 If the attacker is a massive gorilla and throws a really committed haymaker sometimes it is necessary to bend the rules of simultaneous counter attack , you can use two arms to deflect the strike by pivoting into it with a Seung Bong , picture the bit from chum kiu where you have one arm over the top of the other , now bring one elbow up and the other elbow down , make sure its covering your head and use that to intercept his arm by pivoting into the strike . 

If he's unlucky enough to hit the inside of his arm on your elbow well that's a nice bit of bonus pain and it really sux to be him . Be quick about it and immediately latch his arm down and side -slash him in the throat , you gotta be quick don't forget he has another arm . Sigung said that some people maybe that big and powerful that you would have no choice but to use two arms to defend against one .


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

I did a whole thread on Dai Sau, and couldn't believe no one else used it, and couldn't really find a good video where it's clear in application.

Hubbie shown me seung bong on a hook, and it's pretty good, just not my preference.  Dai Sau has spoiled me rotten, it works so great against taller longer armed opponents and is so simple to execute making it quick.  Plus it naturally sets you up for a "chop" to the throat/face, or palm under the chin, or later bui gee (I think, going to have to experiment with that).
We'll teach folks to Dai Sau first when they first learn bong sau so their bong sau doesn't collapse.  Starting with Dai sau gives them good forward pressure before starting a bong.  
Plus, you should be turned "into" bong sau.

We were training at a gym once that had a Jun Fan instructor teaching there.  We just were using the space (it was open to gym members before his class started) He saw us working with Dai Sau, and asked us about it. That he'd never seen that move before, etc.

6 months later we get a student that starts and tells us he used to take Jun Fan from that instructor, and that In the middle of his time training there, Dai Sau just appeared.  But, that he didn't have the technique refined like we did.  Said he didn't like it (and the instructor didn't call it dai sau, we didn't tell him the name of it) the way he taught it, but he liked how we used it in application and form.


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## mook jong man (Dec 12, 2008)

Did that naughty Jun Fan scammer give you guys any credit and say that he learned it off some Wing Chun folks . He will probably come out with a book next " HOW I INVENTED THE DAI SAU " and a dvd boxed set  "THE DAI SAU SYSTEM " as taught to the navy seals , FBI , green beret's , boy scouts , girl guides etc


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## Si-Je (Dec 12, 2008)

mook jong man said:


> Did that naughty Jun Fan scammer give you guys any credit and say that he learned it off some Wing Chun folks . He will probably come out with a book next " HOW I INVENTED THE DAI SAU " and a dvd boxed set "THE DAI SAU SYSTEM " as taught to the navy seals , FBI , green beret's , boy scouts , girl guides etc


 
Of course not. lol!  The people that came to us from his school told us he didn't have the technique correct, and that the students didn't know how to apply it.
Hubbie was going to tell him the name of it, but I cut him off in mid-sentence (rude I know, but necessary) and told him "don't tell him the NAME of it".
So, he's got this "thing" he does that doesn't fit right in application.  I usually like to share with other chunners, I just had a instinct about that one.

Besides, I really think Dai Sau's got have been in WC for a long time.  Bong Sau just doesn't make alot of sense without it.  Sifu's saying that your turned into bong sau all the time.  Well, turned from WHAT?  I can see tan sau, but that would be a low bong sau.  I see folks doing a high bong sau and just snapping into it off a straight punch or hook, seems like it would collapse eaiser and there's no sensitivity that way.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 12, 2008)

There are many different applications to bong sau...

Horizotal Bong Sau
Low Bong Sau(Vertical)
High Bong Sau similiar to Bil Sau
Bong Sau about the head
Bong sau made with fist
An many others. 

Most Wing Chun people can use the Bong Sau in many different ways. 
But I always thought Wu Sau an Bil Sau where good for hooks. Usually the Tan Sau is not good for hooks.



mook jong man said:


> I don't know if anyone else does it , really it is only a modified form of Bong Sau , instead of wrist on center line , the finger tips are and it is driven straight up from the elbow .
> 
> Some one told me that he designed it when he first came to Australia to counter the boxers hook , I don't know if its true or not that's just what I heard . I never asked him when he was alive because I just naturally thought every Wing Chun had it .


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## Si-Je (Dec 13, 2008)

This from a school in Finland.
Hark! Is this Dai sau in yonder window breaks?
Looks like a groovy drill for dai sau and bui gee.


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 13, 2008)

In my lineage we don't use the term Dai Sau...

What does Dai mean?

Why Do they call it Dai Sau?


*Si-Je*


> Looks like a groovy drill for dai sau and bui gee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Si-Je (Dec 13, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> In my lineage we don't use the term Dai Sau...
> 
> What does Dai mean?
> 
> ...


 

Hubbie says: it's an upper deflection.  
Looks a bit like this Sifu uses a variant of Dai Sau with a hook type punch.  I've seen him do this (dai-punch, as I call it) in alot of his videos.  Hits the guy right in the side of the jaw/neck everytime.






Wondering what that is?  But, I like it.

Dai sau has almost the same movement as his "dai-punch, great for deflecting hook punches, good start point for bong sau (when you get turned into bong sau from too much force on your dai sau off a hook/haymaker punch), great to use double dai sau as a break hold from a two handed front choke, on the ground or standing, etc.


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## mook jong man (Dec 13, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> In my lineage we don't use the term Dai Sau...
> 
> What does Dai mean?
> 
> ...


 
If I remember correctly it means " lifting arm " or " raising arm" something along those lines .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 14, 2008)

What is Tok Sau and Tie Sau called?



mook jong man said:


> If I remember correctly it means " lifting arm " or " raising arm" something along those lines .


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## mook jong man (Dec 14, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> What is Tok Sau and Tie Sau called?


 
Sorry don't know those ones  , we have a Tor Sau which means to drag , its a deflection that redirects a stomach level straight punch downwards . 

My Sifu was pretty Australianized and didn't use a lot of the cantonese terms mostly it was " Some bloke trys to hit you , you just do it like this ".


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 14, 2008)

The Reason I asked is because 

*Tok Sau* means:Lifting hand

*Tie Sau* means:Uplifting hand

According to my lineage



mook jong man said:


> Sorry don't know those ones , we have a Tor Sau which means to drag , its a deflection that redirects a stomach level straight punch downwards .
> 
> My Sifu was pretty Australianized and didn't use a lot of the cantonese terms mostly it was " Some bloke trys to hit you , you just do it like this ".


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## mook jong man (Dec 14, 2008)

Yoshiyahu said:


> The Reason I asked is because
> 
> *Tok Sau* means:Lifting hand
> 
> ...


 No I can't say I have ever heard them mentioned in our lineage , but what ever the meaning of Dai sau is , the movement is still raising your arm up from the shoulder straight from your guard in the optimum angle with the fingertips on the centerline . 

I'm not really all that worried about the meaning of it I'm more interested in the fact that It can save me from getting my teeth knocked out mate lol .


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## mook jong man (Dec 14, 2008)

Wait a second I just got a flashback is the Tok sau the bit from the dummy form where both hands push up with the palms underneath the arms of the dummy ? If so I know that technique .


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## geezer (Dec 14, 2008)

Si-Je said:


> ...Besides, I really think* Dai Sau's got have been in WC for a long time*.  Bong Sau just doesn't make alot of sense without it.  Sifu's saying that your turned into bong sau all the time...



I agree with you on this one Si-Je. In my WT we often used that movement against long hooking punches, but _we didn't call it "dai-sau_". I see it emphasized less nowadays.  Still, its like my si-hing Emin said on one of those videoclips you posted where he discussed how a student might have missed the momentary transition through bong sau in one of his attacks, and then showed how it could have just been called "swinging arm" in that context. It's not about the name... or even the technique. _It's about the energy._ The form of the techniques constantly changes as they flow from one into the next. At each instant the technique will assume a different shape as it flows with or around your opponent's arms and body. The names are just arbitrary labels used for convenience.

BTW, we finally,_ finally_ got high-speed connect so I can actually watch all the great clips you guys post links to. I feel like I'm coming out of my cave at last! And thanks for the great links.


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## Si-Je (Dec 14, 2008)

geezer said:


> I agree with you on this one Si-Je. In my WT we often used that movement against long hooking punches, but _we didn't call it "dai-sau_". I see it emphasized less nowadays. Still, its like my si-hing Emin said on one of those videoclips you posted where he discussed how a student might have missed the momentary transition through bong sau in one of his attacks, and then showed how it could have just been called "swinging arm" in that context. It's not about the name... or even the technique. _It's about the energy._ The form of the techniques constantly changes as they flow from one into the next. At each instant the technique will assume a different shape as it flows with or around your opponent's arms and body. The names are just arbitrary labels used for convenience.
> 
> BTW, we finally,_ finally_ got high-speed connect so I can actually watch all the great clips you guys post links to. I feel like I'm coming out of my cave at last! And thanks for the great links.


 
I feel you about the high-speed!  We just got off dial-up! ack!  That's why I didn't chat her much for a long while there.  
I agree with you about the names and such.  They are really best for conversation and talking about theory and technique.  When you actually DO WT/WC your not thinking, 'okay, I'm going to do dai sau, then bui gee, then turn their body, heel kick as I step, etc, etc.'  (I've done that thought train before and that's ALWAYS when I mess up really bad! lol!
I've seen guieterrez do like a dai sau/hook punch motion alot in his videos.  Gave me alot of neat ideas for that type of movement and applicaiton.  Don't know what he refers to it as.  (I call it dai-punch, or dai-choy) 
But whatever ya call it is okay.  
I like that video of Sifu Emin, he's funny.  Especially when he squeals like the "student" freaking out, "sifu! what's this?!"  Cute, funny stuff.  I've totally been THAT student.  And I can identify, lol!


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## mook jong man (Dec 14, 2008)

geezer said:


> I agree with you on this one Si-Je. In my WT we often used that movement against long hooking punches, but _we didn't call it "dai-sau_". I see it emphasized less nowadays. Still, its like my si-hing Emin said on one of those videoclips you posted where he discussed how a student might have missed the momentary transition through bong sau in one of his attacks, and then showed how it could have just been called "swinging arm" in that context. It's not about the name... or even the technique. _It's about the energy._ The form of the techniques constantly changes as they flow from one into the next. At each instant the technique will assume a different shape as it flows with or around your opponent's arms and body. The names are just arbitrary labels used for convenience.
> 
> BTW, we finally,_ finally_ got high-speed connect so I can actually watch all the great clips you guys post links to. I feel like I'm coming out of my cave at last! And thanks for the great links.


 
Ha , next you will be telling us you got rid of the VCR and the cassette tape player .


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## Yoshiyahu (Dec 15, 2008)

Yes that is correct. An Yip man sil lim tau has a tok sau. right before the three gan saus and chaing punch. the bong sau-tan sau-tok sau.


At the end you will see Wong Shun Leung Do

Bong Sau
Tan Sau
Tok Sau

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8631199261021089341&ei=rQlGSbuJBYfIqAKL9pidDw&q=Sil+Lim+Tao+Wong+Shun+Leung



http://video.google.com/videosearch...=N&tab=pv#q=Sil Lim Tao Wong Shun Leung&emb=0



mook jong man said:


> Wait a second I just got a flashback is the Tok sau the bit from the dummy form where both hands push up with the palms underneath the arms of the dummy ? If so I know that technique .


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