# Fatigue and Weapon Retention



## Carol (Jun 2, 2007)

I've started to go out on a jog/walk after work. I'll admit to not being in fantastic shape.  I've never really been able to run (orthopaedic issues) so I do a lot more walking.  It seems no matter how good of shape I'm in, I feel the effects of fatigue very quickly.  I fight through it anyway, but I'm finding one thing to be troublesome.

When I'm in a state of fatigue, my hands feel incredibly weak.  Disturbingly weak.   I feel reasonably confident that I could grip my Surefire E2D because the body has the knobby texture that is very easy to hold.  However, I'm not at all sure I could hold a blade in a decent grip.

Has anyone else noticed something like this?   Any ideas or advice?


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## LawDog (Jun 2, 2007)

For a weak grip you can attach a loop type cord to the weapons handle. The cord should be attached on the upper portion of the handle near the blade area. Slip your hand into the loop then wrap it around your hand and the handle at the same time. This technique is similar to using a sling on a rifle. You will have to experiment adjusting the cord length so that it fits your hand and weapon properly. A little practice using it will also be needed. I used this technique back in the late 60's and it does work well.
Good luck.
:knight:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 2, 2007)

Well Carol for grip fatigue and strength I would suggest finding one of those grip squeeze balls: 
http://www.amazon.com/GoFit-GF-SQZBALL-Gel-Squeeze-Ball/dp/B0007W2FIG

If you already have dumbells then you could do sort of a forearm curl where you place your forearm on your leg and curl the dumbell with the muscles surrounding your wrist. (this works great)

Hope that helps.


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## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2007)

Good advice from *Lawdog* and *Brian* there :tup:.

Just a quick question tho' *Carol*, is it that you are concerned that you get fatigued too quickly or, as your statement reads, that when you are fatigued your grip strength diminishes?

If it's the former, then, like the piano teacher said, "practise, practise, practise" is the best cure i.e. rather than do 'other' excercise, work, to just beyond the onset point, on the techniques where the 'problem' arises.

If it's the latter, then that is not an uncommon condition which I mean in a reassuring tone).  With my wonky arm, I get the same problem if we do suburi for an extended time; I feel like the sword is going to fly from my hand .  

I don't know the specifics of the weapon side of your art but in iai we use a gripping technique called tenouchi where strong grip is taken only at the point of impact.  Until that point the sword is held so loosely that someone could easily pull it from your hand.  I find that when I'm entering fatigued state in suburi that that technique becomes vastly more important .

As I say, I don't know if you already use such a technique or if it will be of benefit to you but it may be worth a try.


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## kaizasosei (Jun 2, 2007)

about the grip problem, you could always get some of those clawspikes that wolverine has.  then you could have a weapon you wouldn't need to grip...or one of those tenonaka style sticks that stick to your hand by having a ring or string for finger..


ok im just kidding....

on a more serious note, i think there may be several possibilities for the sensation of weak grip.  
i also felt this sensation often as a child.  i wondered why it was. more than being a weak grip it was a sensation my hands just didn't want to grip.  
  one explanation i have is that i was using my hands too much and that my problem was exactly what i thought it was.  therefore to balance it out learn to implement body more or maybe even assess the efficiency of handmovements/habits..
  there may be other reasons like lowbloodpressure, having certain illnesses such as from ticks-outdoor or through animals.  whatever the case, sounds to me like you are healthy.  i would keep at it and work harder...can't be certain, but sounds to me like your body is just asking for more stimulation..how lucky a thing is that....

ps:relax, everyone get tired when they run...you feel like death is as hand.  sadly, i think that is usualy normal


j


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## tellner (Jun 2, 2007)

LawDog's advice on lanyards is excellent as is Brian's on increasing grip strength. 

Depending on the laws in your area you might want to look into weapons which you can not drop. There are plenty of things you can improvise which have the same effect as a palm sap (we'll be selling some Real Soon Now(tm) :uhyeah: ). The nice thing is, it doesn't matter if your hands won't grip. To increase grip and get your daily exercise _and_ have something for serious social occasions may I suggest the "D" shaped jogging/exercise hand weights? Some brands are rigid metal which covers your knuckles and provides a heck of a wallop. The handle is a small dumbell. And they come in pretty pink and lavender ("And *this* ladies and gentlemen of the jury is the weapon with which the defendant brutally beat and battered ...").


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## MJS (Jun 2, 2007)

This happens to me as well if I'm drilling something such as siniwalli, for a long period of time.  I'm sure the exercies Brian suggested would help.  Of course it may just come down to alot of repitition.  I remember my first Tuhon Gaje seminar.  The school where this was held, had 3 sets of tires hanging.  I forget the exact amount of time, but he set a few minutes for everyone and we had to go thru a series of strikes on the tires.  This was done 2 times.  Needless to say by the time I was finished, my hands and forearms were numb.  Good times though!! 

Mike


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## Marvin (Jun 2, 2007)

I like to grab dumbells and hold them at my sides while watching the clock's second hand. Each week I try to do 10 sec more. when I get to 3 mins I go up 5 lbs in weight.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 2, 2007)

Some one mentioned squeeze balls, and this is an excellent idea. Hold them and squeeze them as you run, walk, etc.
Hand strength seems to be one of the things we do not think about till we lose it.


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## LawDog (Jun 2, 2007)

tellner,
Never thought of that, great idea, I will have to add it into our W.S.D. program.
:btg:


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## Ern-Dog (Jun 10, 2007)

Here's an idea for a training modifier that involves grip.

Dip you hands in a slippery substance...i.e motor oil, vaseline, etc. then do some training drills. It's an eye opener.


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## Karambit (Jun 10, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> When I'm in a state of fatigue, my hands feel incredibly weak.  Disturbingly weak.   I feel reasonably confident that I could grip my Surefire E2D because the body has the knobby texture that is very easy to hold.  However, I'm not at all sure I could hold a blade in a decent grip.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed something like this?   Any ideas or advice?


 I was just wondering Carol, if you're dieting and depleting your carb intake excessively? This could impact blood sugar levels.
 Also do you or have you experienced and circulatory issues or median nerve impingement, ie)carpal tunnel which can cause cramping,numbness and lack of grip strength ?
 Finally are you taking any thermogenics ,which can overtax the cns and lead to cns and adrenal exhaustion. CNS meds like antidepressants or anxyiolitics, etc can compromise dopamine and norpenephrine availability which would prevent strong neuromuscular conduction that would effect forearm/grip strength,especially under stress and fatigue.


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## arnisador (Jun 12, 2007)

Ern-Dog said:


> Here's an idea for a training modifier that involves grip.
> 
> Dip you hands in a slippery substance...i.e motor oil, vaseline, etc. then do some training drills. It's an eye opener.



Or just schedule knife practice for the end of class...it changes when you're hot and sweaty and tired, in many ways.


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## Trent (Jul 9, 2007)

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all."*George S. Patton, Jr.*, _Letter of Instruction Number 1, Third Army. War As I Knew It, 312_ 

 All good stuff listed above.  Since you have trouble with running, stick to your langkahs for increasing conditioning. or do some hindu-squats, jump rope, single-leg squats, lunges, front squats, cycling, anything to make you get tired and have to keep pushing with the lower body to increase cardiovascular conditioning, and muscular endurance overall.

Next, grip work for weapons retention is a must.  I use fat/thick bar deadlifts and dumbbell training; also heavy weight grippers from www.heavygrips.com or www.ironmind.com 

I've just purchased 400 lbs. and 500 lbs. grippers as a goal.  I can close the 300 lbs. gripper several times (3-4) in each hand, but am always working to improve.  (Note:  the typical sports store gripper is between 40 and 45 lbs. in tension strength.)

Grip strength can really save your bacon with weapons usage and grappling, and has for me on numerous occasions.  Best of wishes on your journey and training.


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