# Aiki-Jitsu?



## Ivan86 (Sep 21, 2006)

So I'm going to check out a Dojo in town next week. I thought it was a Jiu-Jitsu Dojo, but my friend just told me today that it's Aiki-Jitsu. What exactly is Aiki-Jitsu compared to Jiu-Jitsu? Are they related in technique at all? To me it sounds like a cross between Aikido and Jiu-Jitsu, but that's for obvious reasons with no real research to back it up. I've never even heard of Aiki-Jitsu before, can someone give me a breakdown of what it's all about?


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## SFC JeffJ (Sep 21, 2006)

Aiki Jutsu is the forerunner of Aikido.  A lot of practitioners seem to feel a closer relationship to Ju Jutsu than Aikido.  It's a lot less concerned with the "well being" of the attacker, and a little more linear the Aikido.

It's pretty cool stuff.  Wish there was a dojo close to me that had it.

Jeff


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## zDom (Sep 21, 2006)

Sokaku Minamoto Takeda (1860-1943) taught Daito Ryu Aiki Ju-Jutsu to both the founder of Aikido and the founder of modern hapkido, Choi, Yong-Sul.


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## matt.m (Sep 21, 2006)

It is more dynamic in my opinion than jujutsu.  Aiki - aikido, hapkido
ju - judo.

Think of it in these terms when making your decision


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## Ivan86 (Sep 21, 2006)

Ok, I like what I hear so far. My friend also says AikiJitsu has something to do with 5 animals or something??? Sounds like Ninjitsu's 4 elements to me. Is there such a system or does she have no idea what she's talking about?

It could happen, she's only a white belt herself.


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## pgsmith (Sep 21, 2006)

Ivan86,
  As I understand it, aikijutsu and jujutsu are very closely related. Aiki tends to lean more toward the principles of unbalancing the opponent before leveraging them, as opposed to jujutsu which is more concerned with the straight leverage action. Both can be very effective. Aiki tends to be more difficult to learn because it uses much less brute force and more subtlety. They are both old style Japanese arts. Please be aware that these are gross generalizations based upon my own knowledge. I am NOT an experienced practitioner of either discipline!

  Another thing to be aware of is that there are a plethora of "Aikijutsu" and "Jujutsu" schools out there that are simply taking advantage of the popularity of the art. Right now it is aiki that is popular, so there are quite a number of bogus aiki schools around. In the 90s it was jujutsu, and in the 80s it was ninjutsu.

  Just because someone says "we teach aikijutsu" doesn't necessarily make it so. Whenever you hear "aiki" these days, be sure and do lots of homework and ask lots of questions about the school and the instructor. If it's a legitimate school and a decent instructor, he'll welcome the fact that you are dedicated enough to the idea to research it, and will be happy to talk about his instructors. If he's bogus, he'll get upset when you ask about the history of the school and his qualifications to teach.

  Good luck!


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## BlackCatBonz (Sep 21, 2006)

do a search on youtube for "Don Angier"

thats Aiki in action.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Sep 22, 2006)

never heard of AIki-Jitsu, I only know of Aiki Jujutsu (mostly Daito-ryu stream) and Samurai Aikijutsu (of Obata Toshihiro stream).

Check out this website www.daito-ryu.org for more info about Aiki Jujutsu.


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## Spencer Burns (Sep 22, 2006)

Aiki-jutsu (or aiki-jujutsu) is indeed a term used for very subtle traditional jujutsu to distinguish it from more rough and tumble jujutsu.  It's a relatively new term that was popularized (or maybe coined) by Daito Ryu a century or so ago.  However "aiki" is an old term for subtle strategies of misdirecting/manipulating an opponent, whether in jujutsu or weapons techniques.

As was said above, many schools claiming to be aiki-jutsu or aiki-ju-jutsu really aren't...if a school says they teach aikijutsu it usually means one of four things (in decending order of validity):

The school is related to (or part of) Daito-Ryu.
The school teaches an old and subtle style of jujutsu and uses the word aiki[ju]jutsu to distinguish itself from harder or more modern jujutsu styles.
The teacher has learned both Aikido and jujutsu and is combining them, possibly trying to resynthesize more traditional aikijujutsu.
The school teaches straight-up jujutsu with little aiki but is using the word to stand out from other schools.
Aiki is a funny thing that's hard to describe, but you know it when you feel it done to you.  Or, more specifically, you know it when you don't feel it:  if you find yourself on the ground after feeling a joint twisted or your body lifted, that's jujutsu, if you find your self on the ground and don't know how you got there, that's aiki.

A very good, but somewhat reactionary, long write up of the history and politically correct usage of the term aiki is at: http://www.swordforumbugei.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8742#8742

Here's another good thread on what "aiki" means to different folks:  http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25597


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## pgsmith (Sep 22, 2006)

> Or, more specifically, you know it when you don't feel it: if you find yourself on the ground after feeling a joint twisted or your body lifted, that's jujutsu, if you find your self on the ground and don't know how you got there, that's aiki.


  I like that! Very nicely said Mr. Burns!


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## howard (Sep 29, 2006)

pgsmith said:


> As I understand it, aikijutsu and jujutsu are very closely related. Aiki tends to lean more toward the principles of unbalancing the opponent before leveraging them, as opposed to jujutsu which is more concerned with the straight leverage action. Both can be very effective. Aiki tends to be more difficult to learn because it uses much less brute force and more subtlety.


Paul, I think that's a very good concise explanation.

Just to try to add to what you said... most techniques can be done as both jujutsu and aikijujutsu.  As you say, the basic jujutsu versions use more direct force and physical leverage to apply the techniques.  The aiki versions begin with the subtle tactics that you mention to disrupt the attacker's balance and, momentarily, his central nervous system, just enough to allow the defender to complete the technique.  I think Spencer explained it very nicely.

You can also find aiki / hapki techniques in certain styles of Hapkido, especially the few that have stuck to what Choi Young Sool taught when he returned to Korea from Japan.  We're currently unsure of the exact source of his teachings in Japan, even though he always maintanied that he learned Daito-ryu from Sokaku Takeda.  The problem for many is that there is simply no known record of this.



			
				Ivan86 said:
			
		

> My friend also says AikiJitsu has something to do with 5 animals or something???


No... at least not in Daito-ryu or any of its legitimate offshoots.  Daito-ryu teahces six principles of training, but none of them has anything to do with animals.


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## zDom (Sep 29, 2006)

BlackCatBonz said:


> do a search on youtube for "Don Angier"
> 
> thats Aiki in action.



I recently viewed a video of Angier and a partner working with a katana, knife and empty-handed.

An _*impressive*_ martial artist ( <-- understatement!)


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## howard (Oct 1, 2006)

zDom said:


> I recently viewed a video of Angier and a partner working with a katana, knife and empty-handed.
> 
> An _*impressive*_ martial artist ( <-- understatement!)


I have a feeling this is the clip...
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]






This clip contains excellent demonstrations of aiki.  For anybody interested in Iaido, the sword defenses are remarkable.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvWiYcxTm2A[/FONT]


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## arnisador (Oct 1, 2006)

Wow, great clip!


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## Rich Parsons (Oct 1, 2006)

I liked the knife/dagger stuff as much or more so then the sword work and I liked the sword a lot.


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## BlackCatBonz (Oct 2, 2006)

the tantojutsu in kosho ryu is very reminiscent of Angier sensei's knifework, which i thought was quite cool.


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## kosho (Oct 11, 2006)

When you take the Natural law of kosho and add any weapon to the hand, the movements are the same. so by understanding balance from 
in-balance and the understanding of how a person can and can not move than all things blend at that time.  the folding arts and freezeing arts play a big part when dealing with weapons...
my 2 cents.
kosho


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## Denoaikido (Dec 4, 2018)

aiki jitsu or aiki jujutsu are all aikido with out the total budo aspect jistu or justsu just means technique or the aspect of techniques but  budo in a inner spiritual connecting harmony that is were the do comes from in any martial art  i hope this clears the confusion even aikido came from diato ryu jujitsu and further taught as aikido by morihei uesheba


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 5, 2018)

Denoaikido said:


> aiki jitsu or aiki jujutsu are all aikido with out the total budo aspect jistu or justsu just means technique or the aspect of techniques but  budo in a inner spiritual connecting harmony that is were the do comes from in any martial art  i hope this clears the confusion even aikido came from diato ryu jujitsu and further taught as aikido by morihei uesheba


I don’t think most “do” arts have any specific development that isn’t found in most “Jutsu” arts. Ueshiba’s Aikido - in its later incarnation, with a deep focus on philosophy rather than combat ability - is a divergence from Daito-ryu, rather than an expansion on it.


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## Denoaikido (Dec 5, 2018)

i can agree with that for the most part imho its back to the old saying many interpretations of the same foundations kinda thing


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

the do is from shinto the more i research and further my studies  into the arts from japan this is what i believe here is a video good on the shinto way of spirituality


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 6, 2018)

Denoaikido said:


> the do is from shinto the more i research and further my studies  into the arts from japan this is what i believe here is a video good on the shinto way of spirituality


That might be the origin of the use of "do" in Japan, but in Western schools, it's unlikely they're practicing Shintoism. There are some, but few. And when we look at arts like Aikido, different religions have mostly eclipsed the Shintoism in them.


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

that is not true  in my understandings if its a real aikido dojo there whole start of class begins in shinto bowing and respect to the showmen if you dont understand the shinto and the budo aspect i think you maybe stemming quite far away from the founders intention when he created the art this is just my humble opinion and i am a aikidoka


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

Ishokan | Shinto in Aikido<<<<<click here and read i think this gives a fair idea>> Ishokan | Shinto in Aikido


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## pgsmith (Dec 6, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I don’t think most “do” arts have any specific development that isn’t found in most “Jutsu” arts.



  I agree. It has been my experience that it is a western thing to try and assign strict definitions to Japanese words. Japanese language is very fluid and context driven, so that makes most westerners antsy because we generally want something to mean only one thing.

  A great illustration of this is Toyama ryu. It is a gendai sword art created in the early 1900's. It's very practical and is all about learning how to properly cut using a Japanese sword. A number of years ago, I was having beers with the head of one of the major organizations of Toyama ryu from Japan. During the course of the conversation, he referred to Toyama ryu as iaido, battojutsu, battodo, kenjutsu, budo, and bujutsu. All one school, all in one conversation.

  It's typically westerners that try to derive deeper meanings to what things are called. The Japanese outlook is to just do it, and let it work its own way out.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 6, 2018)

Denoaikido said:


> that is not true  in my understandings if its a real aikido dojo there whole start of class begins in shinto bowing and respect to the showmen if you dont understand the shinto and the budo aspect i think you maybe stemming quite far away from the founders intention when he created the art this is just my humble opinion and i am a aikidoka


The Shinto ritual is there at the beginning, but most of the philosophy in most of Aikido is derived from Omoto - that appears to be the main reason for the change in Ueshiba's approach to Aikido over time.


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

I have to agree Omoto from my understanding also played a roll . This was the founders words I train with Sensei Sugawara/s legacy's  he was a direct student of Osensei and he comes here even to teach so are school is very authentic i suppose maybe in comparison most schools and very close to the art taught by Osensei vs his son or others that had there own paths or way of teaching , but O'sensei's words Morihei Ueshiba used Omoto terminology to pass on his view of training aiki. But the secret, aiki, was never about the Omoto religion at all acording to O'sensei


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## Hanshi (Dec 6, 2018)

There is no definitive dividing line between aikijujutsu and aikido or even jujitsu, for that matter.  I've taught both jiu jitsu (jujutsu, jujitsu, etc, however one spells it) and aikido.  They all overlap and differ only in emphasis because they all tend to merge.  Even Aikido varies from "style" to "style".  Aikijujutsu leans more toward combat applications than aikido and _maybe_  softer than hardcore jujitsu.  Just my opinion.


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

Also what westerner's don't understand Morihei was a very deeply martial  ex-military minded individual that became very spiritual in his path and he would meditate so well it was said he could hear things miles away that no one could explain.In my honest opinion  only a few of his students really understood his ways of thinking and or teaching period so many that taught aikido from then on took on there own paths of the art .Thats not saying leaving out things but maybe just not fully understanding it all the way in O'sensei's martial and spiritual morals!


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## Denoaikido (Dec 6, 2018)

As far as aikdo imho , japanese jujustsu ,aiki jujutsu, diato ryu jujutsu all these are very close in almost every way as aikido stems right back to diato ryu jujutsu .Now do not confuse this with bjj as japanese jujutsu doesnt focus on the ground at all like bjj its 9 worlds away lol but trained in bjj and aikido they can flow so well with each other just like bujinkan for me also flowed well as im sure any japanese based art would for the right individuals.


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