# Where do you see Kenpo in 15 years?



## brianhunter (Jun 28, 2002)

We all pretty much have gotten a version of the past and history of our art some people even give test over history for progression. My question is where do you see the future of our art in 15 years? What changes or trends do you see becoming prominent? Who will be the arts leaders and how will they take it to the next level??


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## RCastillo (Jun 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *We all pretty much have gotten a version of the past and history of our art some people even give test over history for progression. My question is where do you see the future of our art in 15 years? What changes or trends do you see becoming prominent? Who will be the arts leaders and how will they take it to the next level?? *



Too tough to answer. Too many Big Guns out there, and too many organizations. Sadly, some of these Big Guns are moving up in age, and I'm not sure who are the Young Ones that will become prominent in Kenpo Circles.:asian:


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## Seig (Jun 28, 2002)

But I think that in the next 15 years, you will start to see the Kenpo community moving back together.  With forums such as this and more open access to the Seniors than ever before, we, as brothers and sisters, may be able to heal the wounds of the past and work toward a common goal.. That of spreading Kenpo and the vision that was Ultimately Mr. Parker.


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## Kirk (Jun 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *But I think that in the next 15 years, you will start to see the Kenpo community moving back together.  With forums such as this and more open access to the Seniors than ever before, we, as brothers and sisters, may be able to heal the wounds of the past and work toward a common goal.. That of spreading Kenpo and the vision that was Ultimately Mr. Parker. *



With exceptions of course.  I've heard rumors of guys that don't
even have a single picture of Ed Parker in their school.  Can you
believe that?!?!?  Of course a united kenpo will just be a lot 
better without them anyways.


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## pineapple head (Jun 28, 2002)

I know where i'll be in 15 years.....50 years old...sheeesh!!!!
That sounds a lot worse when you write it.
Seriously..im not qualified enough to give an educated answer on this , but all i can say is that Kenpo will be with me for the next 15 years..oh! and another 50!


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## Seig (Jun 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Yeah, I wonder if Ricardo is going to take that as another attack on him.......:rofl:


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## RCastillo (Jun 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> Yeah, I wonder if Ricardo is going to take that as another attack on him.......:rofl: *



Better than that, I EXPECT my picture to be right up there beside SGM Parker, and Dennis Conatsers pictures!


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## shawn monday (Jun 28, 2002)

If you actaually step back and take a wide look at it... We train with the past but we are the future and just as kenpo evolves then i think we as practicioners wille volve too. when peoplelike out of the first generation are gone..all we have to look back on  is books and old videos.. so if you want your knowledge togo then try to train with some of the old timers..some of us never got to meet mr parker.. but we can understand his art better through who he taught it to first.. hopefull this all makes sense


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## Kirk (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by shawn monday _
> 
> *If you actaually step back and take a wide look at it... We train with the past but we are the future and just as kenpo evolves then i think we as practicioners wille volve too. when peoplelike out of the first generation are gone..all we have to look back on  is books and old videos.. so if you want your knowledge togo then try to train with some of the old timers..some of us never got to meet mr parker.. but we can understand his art better through who he taught it to first.. hopefull this all makes sense *



Yeah, but I'm not gonna call them "old timers" ... not to their
face anyways


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 29, 2002)

is this....... you guys that have studios and aspirations of learning Kenpo need to seek out the Knowledge so you will have some in later years to take the place of current "Seniors"... this term is kinda weird to me!  I just was in quest of learning more and more of the Art from Mr. Parker when one day he is gone..... the next day I notice that I'm being called a Senior... hell I'm only 49 for gosh sakes!!!

However, we will not all be here in 15 years so you guys need to seek out and sponge up as much of the BEST KENPO knowledge that you can from the closest people to Mr. Parker.  

If you find differences you will have to weigh them for yourself and find the truth.

So, get after it.......

:asian:


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## Seig (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> Better than that, I EXPECT my picture to be right up there beside SGM Parker, and Dennis Conatsers pictures! *


You do not have to wait 15!  Send me an 8x10, I'll put you on my Wall of Fame


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## Seig (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *is this....... you guys that have studios and aspirations of learning Kenpo need to seek out the Knowledge so you will have some in later years to take the place of current "Seniors"... this term is kinda weird to me!  I just was in quest of learning more and more of the Art from Mr. Parker when one day he is gone..... the next day I notice that I'm being called a Senior... hell I'm only 49 for gosh sakes!!!
> 
> ...


Didn't I say basically the same thing on another thread?  My Grand Ambition in 20 years is to have people telling the new people to call me!(serious)  Once they do, I can tell them to call Ricardo then he can tell them to call.............(joke)


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## brianhunter (Jun 29, 2002)

Well I am in my 20's and God willing I will be around for awhile. For now Im trying to pass what Kenpo I have on to my Children then maybe someday too others. Ive been in the art since 1999 (which isnt very long) I have no plans of getting out of it now. Some of my plans have changed due to work, kids, etc. but I think Ill find a way too keep going. I seem to think we will all gradually drift back into one group maybe under different banners or orgs but realize we are all after the same thing. (Kinda like the USA many different states, different laws, flags, but we all want the same basic freedoms and rights) 
     I would like to think that maybe one day politics will be out of the picture but we are only human after all. With communication more available now then ever I still see people drifting apart, maybe we will all come around.


Bam Bam Hunter


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _*
> I seem to think we will all gradually drift back into one group maybe under different banners or orgs but realize we are all after the same thing. (Kinda like the USA many different states, different laws, flags, but we all want the same basic freedoms and rights)
> *



We are already there now.  We are all Kenpo.  Just different takes due to the individual leaders knowledge levels and attitudes.



> *
> I would like to think that maybe one day politics will be out of the picture but we are only human after all. With communication more available now then ever I still see people drifting apart, maybe we will all come around.
> Bam Bam Hunter *



Politics are often created by individuals not following established rules or common courtesies.  Where there are no ethics, honor or loyalty displayed in ones actions, this can cause problems.  There are proper ways of handling issues of interaction between groups and individuals, when these are not followed it can/will result in problems.   Students actions are often an un-intentional source of this without knowledge of the big picture, but sometimes Instructors are guilty as well for varying reasons.

With the internet and other communication means today there is no  reason not to communicate properly between all parties.

Regardless......... we still are Kenpo.

:asian:


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## brianhunter (Jun 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



So if students are unintentionally causing problems because they dont see the "big picture" do you show it to them and help them understand or leave them in the dark and blame them for bad judgement ? Thats the biggest thing I dont like is asking why and being told just because or do as i say not as I do.....its an art not the military I dont need the heiarchy, I get that at work I do this because I love this and it was about ruined for me. To quote the raven "nevermore"


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## shawn monday (Jun 30, 2002)

brians right there are a lot of kenpo instructors who are all abvout this big pedestal stuff and dont take it to heart that they are affecting the learning of the student. at the school i run im all about sharing something new that i learn all the time.. my teacher does the same thing with me as well.. thats what makesour art different from the rest in my opinion


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _*
> So if students are unintentionally causing problems because they dont see the "big picture" do you show it to them and help them understand or leave them in the dark and blame them for bad judgement ?
> *


If a student causes me problems or makes bad decisions.... you bet I tell them.  Depending upon how serious the infraction, they will be shown the source of the problem, explain the points and talk about it then move on or be told to find another instructor if the action was inexcusable depending upon the persons rank and experience.



> *
> It's an art not the military.... I don't need the hierarchy, I get that at work I do this because I love this and it was about ruined for me.
> *



Here I do disagree with you ........ it is a "MARTIAL" Art first and foremost, make no mistake.   It does have a military background and format.  Of  Course, every instructor is slightly different just as in the military...... some are hard core some are not.... both have good and bad points.... you might need to search out one that fits you,  your personality and philosophies.  

:asian:


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## brianhunter (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Mr. C,
I disagree with our art being the military the dictionary I have says this....

Martial:
1) Suitable for war
2) Showing readiness or eagerness to fight; warlike

     I think its all about perception...some people want to view it as the military because they have personal needs for a hierachy, so they make it as such. To me it should be about your personal journey and enlightenment I am not the great and powerful Oz but I am a man and a warrior I live this every day with my family and work. I deserve the basic respect as such also. I served my time in the military I served 8 years and recieved an honorable discharge I dont think I could have done that without good character and values. I think respect should be mutual and sometimes I think we fail to give people who deserve basic respect just that! I am not a 12 year old kid who needs to be reprimanded or belittled (which I also disagree with) I am a man.....a good man with adult responsibilities which are taken care of treat me as such. I guess maybe I feel that you should show someone respect or common courtesey if it is the white belt who walked in the door 2 days ago or the 6th dan whos been around the world  Thats a little more then 2 cents but hey thats what this forum is here for.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _*
> Mr. C,
> I disagree with our art being the military the dictionary I have says this....
> 
> ...



Well, you have your opinion I have mine.   I feel that Kenpo is suitable for war..... 

I also believe in having students with above average skills so that "if'" a salutation presents itself they are ready and warlike.

But you are free to your differing opinion and I certainly will defend your right to have that opinion, you have every right to  train as you wish and with whom.



> *
> I think its all about perception...some people want to view it as the military because they have personal needs for a hierachy, so they make it as such. To me it should be about your personal journey and enlightenment I am not the great and powerful Oz but I am a man and a warrior I live this every day with my family and work.
> *



Once again, you have a right to state your opinion and you are not alone..... several others agree with you.... but I personally  disagree.... it is a hierarchy, if it were not.... then why do we have a belt system.  We all should just wear a Black Belt and have no designations what so ever.  No founders, Presidents, vp's etc.... lets take a stroll back to the stone age and start all over again only to evolve and arrive here again at a different date.



> *
> I deserve the basic respect as such also.
> *



Did I miss something here......  I don't recall you being disrespected? 



> *
> I served my time in the military I served 8 years and recieved an honorable discharge I dont think I could have done that without good character and values.
> *



Hmmmm... Once again did I miss something?.... You are one of many to have served and serve in our Armed Forces, (I personally thank you) and congratulations on your discharge (some are not so lucky - they die).......  Did I or someone question your character or values?  I'm Lost here??????



> *
> I think respect should be mutual and sometimes I think we fail to give people who deserve basic respect just that! I am not a 12 year old kid who needs to be reprimanded or belittled (which I also disagree with) I am a man.....a good man with adult responsibilities which are taken care of treat me as such.
> *



Wow, all that is running through my head at this point is they you need professional help ...... and NOW.    What the H.... are you talking about?



> *
> I guess maybe I feel that you should show someone respect or common courtesey if it is the white belt who walked in the door 2 days ago or the 6th dan whos been around the world
> *



I don't  recall not  ever doing that.???????



> *
> Thats a little more then 2 cents but hey thats what this forum is here for.
> *



I'm at a loss for words here, I have no Idea where you are coming  from?  If I didn't know better I'd say you worked for the post office,  ease up for gosh sakes........ lol


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## Michael Billings (Jul 1, 2002)

... or experienced some really poor quality teachers before finding the UKS - There is definitly a heirarchy for us, we just don't get too upset about it if someone eats before us or forgets to salute.  We correct more by example than punishment, hopefully.

Let's see .... 15 years from now, can I be a 6th or 7th and fight from a wheelchair.  If so ... I am there man!  If not, I sure hope that the organizations out there now have finished redefining their niches in Kenpo.  By it's nature the System will always be expanding and adding new information, increasing the level of sophistication, or some teachers will move into a different arts and still call it Kenpo Something or other.  

I am hoping for a time of consolidation as the Seniors out there now, move into more advisory roles and the reins are handed down.  I am not in an organization with a lot of "Seniors" so that will not be coming my way.  But I don't want to lose the heart, iron, will, strength, and power of Kenpo - to armchair warriors of the future.  As is is now, none of the Seniors I know, would expect you to be any less than you can be (plus you have to be able at some level, to truely fight or defend yourself.)  They are just not armchair seniors!!!!  

 :soapbox: :shock:

I have ambivalent feelings about the future of Kenpo - I want it to maintain the Heart, Strength, Martial and Mental Toughness that comes from coming through the ranks like I did: Lots of mud, dust, blood, pushups, broken bones, and black eyes, etc.  With instructors like Sigung LaBounty, Tom Kelly, Gary Swan, Brian Duffy, Tom Burks kinda training.  But at the same time I recognize that I must have been a mutant or something, and somewhat masochistic, to have stuck through it all.  I acknowledge I am a much better and stronger person for the lessons I have learned through Kenpo, and the people I have met.  With people like Dennis Conatser opening the door to my meeting Mr. Parker, and Howard Silva training my body and mind in, not what you do, but how you do it i.e. the Principles, Concepts, and Theories; then my exposure to so many truely great Kenpoist at camps and seminars over the decades and who have become good friends.  

But not everyone is in Kenpo to become a Black Belt.  In fact, most do not journey that far, nor do you have to take the same path I did.  The balance of finding a medium, a school, where I can push my students, gain their respect (without demanding it), without dominating the students, or imposing my goals for them over their own goals - this has been my challenge.  I would, and have, lost students due to my over-enthusiasm about certain aspects of Kenpo. This was my own failing and one I am much more aware of now and try to avoid.

Ok, so I ranted on and on.  Saw and heard a lot over the weekend, both good and bad.  Met some great AKKI guys Jason Buggs, Tim McCord, some of Brian Duffy's current senior students, a few of the old NCKKA Chinese Kenpo senior students from San Antonio, or ex-students (Jeff Schroeder from Austin) and a bunch of Curtis Abernathy's students (Parker/Palanas lineage.)  Then I got to visit with Edmond Jr. for quite a while.  That got me thinking in a good critical way about the future of Kenpo and some of the practitioners.  Please excuse my long-windedness.

Optimistically Respectful - 
Oos,
-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## ikenpo (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *... Met some great AKKI guys Jason Bugg, Tim McCord, some of Brian Duffy's current senior students, a few of the old NCKKA Chinese Kenpo senior students from San Antonio, or ex-students (Jeff Schroeder from Austin) and a bunch of Curtis Abernathy's students (Parker/Palanas lineage.)
> 
> ...



Mr. Billings,

It was great to get a chance to meet you as well. I really should have floated around a little more. I would have loved to "feel" some of your Kenpo. I also wanted to hang with Kirk more. The thing I respected about your attendance was 1) you were a 4th (the highest ranking in the house) willing to line up in a seminar with a person who is of a lower rank than you, and 2) when you stepped up and said, "I'll stand behind my belief that Kenpo is a complete art".

Just a note of clarification, I am not a AKKI student, but I am a friend of Terry McCord in Houston. It was probably easy to mix that up since I had no identifying patches on other than the Universal Pattern. I actually spent most of my time playing with Mary & Toby Rodriguez and will hopefully be doing some training with Mr. Duffy in the near future. 

Regards, Jason Bugg:asian:


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## RCastillo (Jul 1, 2002)

Wheelchair! Cause that's what Dennis Conatser will have me 

doing when he gets old, WHEELING HIM AROUND!  :rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 1, 2002)

You earn another feather.......

 :asian:


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## RCastillo (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *You earn another feather.......
> 
> :asian: *



Picking up steam here........................


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## Seig (Jul 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *Wheelchair! Cause that's what Dennis Conatser will have me
> 
> doing when he gets old, WHEELING HIM AROUND!  :rofl: *


That is assuming your "HitMan" cracks don't wind you up in the one next to him.  Hmm, I wonder if they make those double wheel chairs like they do strollers......


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## Sigung86 (Jul 2, 2002)

I would like to get a word in edgewise regarding the suitability of Kenpo as a military weapon.  Trust me ... It is suitable, and dare I say, it's origins are military.  All differences (social, political, cultural, etc) aside, the origins of Kenpo are steeped in arts of war.  

Don't forget that the original arts, Pre-Ed Parker, are from a totally different culture, whereby warriors were expected to not only be able to kill in both unarmed and armed situations, but as well, knock the nuts off a gnat with a bow and arrow, arrange flowers, write poetry, make ceremonial tea, and have a gift for creating paintings.  And before any body here beats on me, this goes way back to before Mitose, even ... :lol:

The Kenpo techniques that we learn today in commercial schools (for the most part, Clyde!) are not diluted down, per se.  They are, however, more specific to our cultural needs and social requirements.  In most places that I have been in the past 20 years, you can not carry bow and arrow, nunchakus, swords, sai, tonfa, bo, etc.  In some states in America, it is illegal to carry the weapons at all.

But military?  It's history is military.  It's origins are military, and basically, the culture is military, or perhaps militant, in origin.  Even back to the Shaolin Temples and before.

Two of my Black Belts went into the Marines a number of years ago.  One went to the Fast Companies.  The other went to Swimmer Scouts.  Both of these are Special Operations Units.  One of them was, later, in the Kosovo debacle.  Both have taught their art, pretty much as I passed it to them, to Delta Force and SEALS in training.  (And I don't even have an advertisement in Black Belt Magazine).

Our methods are different now ... We tend to require more of a thinking person's approach to the arts, thus we have what some people may tend to call, "Analysis Paralysis".  Is that good?  Well, Yes and No.  For us, today, it is good to have something that we can flow into a path or school of thought as we progress.  We need it, in order to feel complete as we pursue this thing we call life.  

In a mass war setting ... No, we don't need that, at all.  In fact, there should be, for mass teaching in a war setting, a lot less description and discussion.  Training, due to time and necessity constraints, is usually, very limited in number of techniques and basic understanding.  e.g.  35,000 soldiers don't need to know the whole philosophy or concept of marriage of gravity or 150+ techniques.  They only have to know and make workable, the fact that assuming a wider stance, dropping their weight as they rotate their hips and exhale while striking, creates a stronger strike... Thus increasing their survivability, and more importantly, allowing the enemy to die for his cause and country, all the more successfully.  If our soldiers survive, then they can, at their leisure, learn more.

The military heirarchy, we are probably stuck with, for at least the next 10  to 20 years.... :lol:

Dan


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## brianhunter (Jul 2, 2002)

I was not saying kenpo could not be used for war...I was just saying kenpo is not the military. I know how kenpo works on the streets first hand it has gotten me through several times, no baton, no mace, no gun I have faith in its "martial" ability.

 The military also teaches things to the lowest common denomenator to do the most good for the whole or group hence a triage of what does the most good for the least amount of time this is not true for kenpo it is to be tailored to the students needs.

I think I might have worded it wrong or was misunderstood but again I think kenpo would work on the street, on the battlefield, in chucky cheese etc. I just dont feel like I should be treated like Im in the military to discover and learn it, that is all.

Mr. C., I was not aiming some of my thoughts at you, if you felt that way I am sorry, a lot of things have been bugging me lately and yes I did have a bad day, Im sorry if it came off as an attack and no I have 17 years to retire with the police dept Im not going to work for the post office.....YET I guess I could still take a gun to work that way :rofl:


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## RCastillo (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> That is assuming your "HitMan" cracks don't wind you up in the one next to him.  Hmm, I wonder if they make those double wheel chairs like they do strollers...... *



I dont know, but if they don't, here's your chance to invent one, and make millions!:rofl: 

We'll see your late nite infomercials on TV!


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## Michael Billings (Jul 2, 2002)

.... cuz I sure won't teaching Kenpo the way I do. But I have fun.

-MB


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## Sigung86 (Jul 2, 2002)

Hey Brian!

You still got me confused about the militayr thing, then!

Can you try again, and move your lips very slowly so I can keep up? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dan "I may be slow, but I sure can't keep up" Farmer


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _*
> Mr. C., I was not aiming some of my thoughts at you, if you felt that way I am sorry, a lot of things have been bugging me lately and yes I did have a bad day, Im sorry if it came off as an attack and no I have 17 years to retire with the police dept Im not going to work for the post office.....YET I guess I could still take a gun to work that way :rofl:
> *



Wheeeeeee  Ok good, you had me worried for a minute..... I just didn't want you to go postal on me .....LOL   Man don't let those bad days get to you!!  

Take care


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## brianhunter (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sigung86 _
> 
> *Hey Brian!
> 
> ...




he he Okay...I think martial means more "warlike" as opposed to "military" you can use it for war and that still falls under the definition for martial....I think that in being a Martial Artist....you are studying an art that can be used for war or henceforth make you a warrior...... Thats my goal/lifestyle

What I am in disagreement with is saying "martial" means strictly military....I think some people take this too far and saying that since its a "martial art" you should teach and treat it like the military.


I think Im confusing myself now but I hope I cleared this up a bit...Too much heat and not enough rain in kansas lately I think Im about brain fried


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## Klondike93 (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> I'm at a loss for words here, I have no Idea where you are coming  from?  If I didn't know better I'd say you worked for the post office,  ease up for gosh sakes........ lol *




Ok now ease up on us postal workers, we're people too ya know, and we...*sobbing*...just want to...:wah: ...fit in with others... 


Besides, they take our weapons away at the door   


:asian:


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## brianhunter (Jul 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Dang and I was gonna apply!!!


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## Seig (Jul 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *
> 
> Dang and I was gonna apply!!! *


They may let you carry pepper spray!


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## Scott Bonner (Jul 3, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> They may let you carry pepper spray! *



Yeah...for dogs!


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## Klondike93 (Jul 3, 2002)

Pepper spray! I've had a few customers throwing a tantrum I would have liked to have used that on  


:asian:


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## jeffkyle (Jul 3, 2002)

To work for SWBT and i found that Wasp Spray works well on dogs, to well however....It will kill them if too much is applied in the right spot!


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## Michael Billings (Jul 3, 2002)

.. and I am certain I would not like him going "postal" on me, pepper spray or not.  He certainly can open a can of postal whoop-a#@ on you.  

I guess I'll post this now, I got your post, if you are a postman do you have to ring twice?  I am heading to bed post haste, before I am postdated ... I'll be watching "The Postman", the movie with Kevin Costner.

MB
(Isn't it nice that MartialTalk thanks you for your posting after each post?)  Enough already.


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## Klondike93 (Jul 4, 2002)

Wise guy!!!!! 


:asian: 

P.S. I'm going to e-mail Mr. Duffy as one postal worker to another and get him to unleash some "postal woop-@$$" on ya


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 4, 2002)

"Kenpostal Gate"........... has begun!

Get your bulletproof vests and gas masks out.......

eeeeppppppp


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## Seig (Jul 4, 2002)

I am wearing my vest!


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## Klondike93 (Jul 4, 2002)

:ak47: :shooter: :sig: :snipe:  :machgunr: 

:mp5: :zap: :biggun: :armed: :uzi: 




:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jul 4, 2002)

That's not funny!!!

 



 well ........ a little....


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## Klondike93 (Jul 4, 2002)

Make fun of the postal guys, but when we get even it's not funny any more   



:asian: 







sense of humor kicks in here, I hope  :shrug:


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## Seig (Jul 4, 2002)

Have a coke and a smile and go get yourself a Happy Meal!


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## Klondike93 (Jul 5, 2002)

You got it oh wise one  



:asian:


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## Seig (Jul 5, 2002)

Glad I could be of service!


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