# G19 9x19 (or 40s&W) or XD9?



## Van Kuen (Oct 20, 2004)

Going to be getting my first handgun soon...have experience at the range shooting the G19 both in the 9 and 40 cal.  Was going to get that gun when the holidays get here.  Someone told me about the XD9 being the "gun of the year", and that I should look into one of those.  Asked a marine buddy of mine...he says stay away from it as it's a clone and isnt as good as the real thing and to stick to the G19.   Anyone else have any opinions?


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## Mark Weiser (Oct 20, 2004)

Personally I would go with G19 in the 40 cal. More knock down power and you would use less ammo in a combat situation.


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## GAB (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi,

I have been shooting handguns for along time.

I think if you are familar with the 40 and can handle the little bit more kick go with it as far as the round you will be using.

The other thing is safety, how well you feel about the difference in the safety features.

The feel, as to what feels more comfortable to you. Some feel better to others then the other feels to them (if you get it)...

The 9 holds more rounds for you in the magazine, but the knock down is better with the 40. If you flinch and shoot better with the 9, then get it, if not and you will be shooting a lot and practicing, again I say the 40. If you will be sharing the pistol with a family member then you should evaluate there abilities also...:uhyeah: 

I like Glocks, I like Sigs, etc. I like some better than others but one thing I feel is very important is the issue of saftey. That is one of the reasons so many people like the 1911A1 Colt or its look alikes. The round also, but the 40 is really a good substitute.

Springfield has been around for quite awhile, its not like they are new to the industry.. I remember in the 80s when the Glock came out and everyone was really shy about that one....Major player now in the LEO's and other places...

It is really hard to say much more without knowing some more of your background, what you want it for etc.

One last thing, if/when you practice do you practice with a full mag, or just a few at a time? Means something in your ability to handle kickback...If you want more weight...Tricks to get you by some flinching/bucking etc. Recoil can really through some off, also make sure you wear double ear protection.

Less you hear from the muzzle blast the less likly you are to flinch...Honest..G

Regards, Gary


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## Van Kuen (Oct 20, 2004)

Hey guys thanks for the quick replies.  As far as the rounds and the knockdown power, the agree the .40 would be better...however since most of the time the gun will be used at the range as a leisure activity as well as for skill, one factor was the price of the ammo.  The .40 cal ammo is almost twice the cost of the 9 mm ammo at any given shop.  Now of course I will be buying premium grade hollow point rounds to place in a couple clips and leave alone for the "real" time occasions when the gun may be necessary, most of the time the mags will be filled with full metal jacket winchester rounds most likely.   That's 5 dollars vs 11 dollars (9mm to 40 cal resp.).

The other factors, I am still a novice shooter by any standards, however I am ex military and had experience with my m16 of course, as well as several trips to the shooting range using my buddies glocks and revolvers and rifles, etc.  So the inherent noises and so forth don't bother me.  So that wont be an issue.  The other person who may be handling the gun will be my girlfriend.  She has shot both the  9 and the 40, and actually shot better with the 40, but complained of the weight.   So....that's another angle Im thinking about.  

Second, I personally shot better consistently with the 9mm.  Although some people feel there's not as much stopping power, Im pretty sure it will kill some one just as easily as the 40 will if necessary.  Just like any martial art...the target is just as important as the technique/weapon being used.  Besides...I will have more bullets in the mag anyway...:mp5: 

Feel...I love the glocks.  Im most familiar with them, trust the name, and know I can't go wrong with it.  I just don't want to overlook something comparable that I don't know about.  

I may look into carrying and will possibly look into getting a permit, but then Im not sure if that would be necessary yet, also considering you can't carry a gun on any premises that you would need it anyway like nightspots, banks, many places of business...etc etc.  

So hopefully that will help you guys to help me to make a decision.  I want to make sure Im informed in general, as Im still a novice in this arena.  Any advice about anything will help me,  in addition to of course which gun to choose as my first.


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## GAB (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi,

Now that you have told me more about your intentions and being you first pistol.

I would say look at the XD9 closer and for the way you are talking go with the 9...

S&W makes some pretty good shooters, look into them also the CHP uses them in my state.

Texas, I will bet there are lots of spots, to go and look, feel and shoot pistols.

When you were in the service did you get to shoot the Beretta?

Thats a pretty nice weapon also.. 

The reason I mention these others is the safety factors, decocks, left and right handed saftey etc. Are you left or right handed by the way?

When you buy the glocks make sure you buy the holsters that are made especially for them.. Very important. Some of us don't use holsters, not good with the glocks.

When I was shooting the double action revolvers exclusively we went to the (de nut of single action) just so you did not have the accidental misfire....

Pull it out and it is single action by your own design then you get excited and put it back and it is in the cocked mode, no no...

That is one of the nice things when you have a grip safety, it is in the safe mode even if it is cocked, you still have the protection of another safety.

Things I would think about with my first shooter, feel and saftey, 9mm I believe from your input. I know you said you were in the service

Don't get caught up in the bigger guns routine.. next you will want a 44 mag or something now that 357 auto is sweet but so is the 38 auto but go for the 9 right now...IMO

Saftey also..Regards, Gary 
ps: If you don't wear the right holster with the glock and you were in the woods and a branch hit it, it will go, bang...G


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## Van Kuen (Oct 20, 2004)

Thanks for the heads up man.  I think I am leaning more towards the G19 9mm.  I will make sure to buy a glock made holster should I decide to carry the gun on my person.  Something I wanted to ask about the Glocks though...I thought there was three safety's on the gun.  So how is it that it can go off without the trigger safety depressed?  

Also, I've heard that for the record that the XD9 is basically a "copy" of the glock with a couple extra safety's, minus a lot of the accessories.  What have you heard about that?  Another reason that Im in the negative for the XD9 is since my girlfriend will be handling the gun, I've heard if you don't have a firm grip on the handle safety that you won't be able to fire.  Not good in a nerve racking situation if she has to pop off a few rounds in an already stressful situation and the gun won't fire because her grip is off or not tight enough.


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## GAB (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi, Yes that is true about the grip safeties, the basic reason for them is exactly what you are talking about. Good grip is really important. 

I jumped back in to add....
If you do not hold a tight hold and good back up for the semi-autos so they have something to keep them from going backwards, (the buck ) you feel is important. If you (or friend) fail to give good bucking support, there is a chance of it not going back and chambering the next round, the recoil needs to be felt with a stout hold...G 

Practice, put hundreds of rounds through it in a slow easy going enviroment.

The safety on the trigger is exposed if not in the holster they make and then the branch pushs on it or someone goes for it. The holster is part of the safe process.

Picture the 1911A1 with the hammer back, that is what the glock is like when ready to go, but the safety on the trigger is there, so if the finger is not on the trigger, they feel that is the best way to go. Similar to carrying your M16 loaded (in chamber) and safety off, with the finger not on the trigger. 

Once you have pulled back and released the safety, then you continue to pull through, releasing the trigger before you fire and taking your finger off the trigger puts it back into the safe mode. I like the little longer trigger squeeze, it gives you an area of safety.

Some of the target models have a tighter squeeze(distance not as much slack) and a lighter trigger pull.

But the one you are looking at is pretty much the normal everyday unit.

For you right now I would say the best way to keep it, is with no round in the chamber, that way the hammer is down until you pull the slide back and chamber a round.

Once you get your particular piece (pistol) You will become acquainted with it by shooting, be particulary aware of the length from when you start to touch and pull the trigger, you will feel a short time of no resistance (slack).

You will then meet the resistance and that is when the amount of pressure exerted is what is necessary to complete the process for the trigger to fall and strike the firing pin.

Remember any time you release that pressure and go back to the slack area and then take your finger off the trigger it is in the safe position. 

Shoot the regular 9mm parabellum round (Ball M882)for awhile and get used to it, I think that is about the least expensive and what your gun is designed around...

The lighter hotter round (HP) is not what you want to start with takes about 500 to 1000 rounds before it is going to be feeling good to you.

They have already been fired many times and they will come with a target with holes in it to show how well it shoots (pattern).

Good Luck, Regards, Gary


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## dearnis.com (Oct 20, 2004)

The XD is similar to the glock only in appearance and tupperware construction.  I like it better; but only because it feels better in my hand.
Take the time and shoot both;get the one you shoot better.
Don't lose sleep over the 9 vs. 40 vs 45 vs (insert new wonder round here); the debate exists to sell gun magazines (the printed kind).  Get the gun you shoot best, get the training   to place the rounds where they need to go, practice, and you will do fine (kind of like pick the art that suits you, get good instruction, practice....)
An aside on grip safeties...if they were so major a liability under stressful conditions the 1911 would not be used near as much as a comp and combat gun....
If you get your permit spend the $$ for a proper holster; no sense spending $500 on a pistol and using a 14.99 clearance special carry rig.
Let us know what you end up with.


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## 8253 (Oct 20, 2004)

Personally i would stick with a 40 cal Glock, i prefer to stay away from springfield's though, i have never saw one that was milled correctly.  I have found that the barrels especially have to be remilled to keep from jaming up the gun.  Also if not very carefully put back together the slide has a tendancy to pull the barrel forward when putting the gun back together and  locks the gun up alltogether.  I have never ran into any problems with my Glock though.


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## Van Kuen (Oct 21, 2004)

I've made up my mind with the G19.  I will also be buying a streamline m6 for it as well.  Already ordered the gun from a local shop.   They offered a lifetime warranty on the gun and said it should come with two 15 round mags.   I could get it from Academy for 499 but it has no warranty and 10 round mags.  Sooo I think the extra 50 bucks is worth it in that case.  What do you all think?


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## 8253 (Oct 21, 2004)

good choice


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## GAB (Oct 22, 2004)

Van Kuen said:
			
		

> I've made up my mind with the G19. I will also be buying a streamline m6 for it as well. Already ordered the gun from a local shop. They offered a lifetime warranty on the gun and said it should come with two 15 round mags. I could get it from Academy for 499 but it has no warranty and 10 round mags. Sooo I think the extra 50 bucks is worth it in that case. What do
> you all think?


Hi, 

Good choice, holster is right, warrenty is very good.
Practice, have fun, be careful, keep in touch...

Regards, Gary


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## KenpoTex (Oct 22, 2004)

Good choice, escpecially with the warranty and the NORMAL capacity mags.  I'm a die-hard fan of the 1911 GM (.45 of course) but I'm actually looking at the Glocks myself as an option for concealed-carry.  A 40 oz. (empty weight) GM  is a little annoying to carry around all the time.


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## Van Kuen (Oct 22, 2004)

The dealer I went to had to order the gun, and that's why he said he should have the 15 cap mags, but he said it depends on what model they send.  We will have to wait and see.   As far as the streamlight m6, I found them on ebay. one for like 248 versus his 300 some dollars he was selling it for.  So I think I will go that route.


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## Van Kuen (Oct 25, 2004)

Does anyone know of a holster that fits a glock with an attachment on the rail?  I've heard that there are holsters that the guns can go into without having to detach the tactical lights/lasers and what not.


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## GAB (Oct 25, 2004)

Van Kuen said:
			
		

> Does anyone know of a holster that fits a glock with an attachment on the rail? I've heard that there are holsters that the guns can go into without having to detach the tactical lights/lasers and what not.


Hi, Going full bore huh...I would advise to buy the gun, shoot 500 rounds, get used to handeling it in the dark and sleep with it empty. If you still like it, go for it... Regards, Gary


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## KenpoTex (Oct 26, 2004)

Van Kuen said:
			
		

> Does anyone know of a holster that fits a glock with an attachment on the rail?  I've heard that there are holsters that the guns can go into without having to detach the tactical lights/lasers and what not.


Check with companies like Safariland, Fobus, Uncle-Mikes, and Galco or run a google search on holsters and then search within results for rail-attachments.


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## Seig (Oct 27, 2004)

Van Kuen said:
			
		

> Hey guys thanks for the quick replies. As far as the rounds and the knockdown power, the agree the .40 would be better...however since most of the time the gun will be used at the range as a leisure activity as well as for skill, one factor was the price of the ammo. The .40 cal ammo is almost twice the cost of the 9 mm ammo at any given shop. Now of course I will be buying premium grade hollow point rounds to place in a couple clips and leave alone for the "real" time occasions when the gun may be necessary, most of the time the mags will be filled with full metal jacket winchester rounds most likely. That's 5 dollars vs 11 dollars (9mm to 40 cal resp.).


Check with the ammunition counter at Wal-Mart. I buy 100 round boxes of .40 or 9mm for the same price.


> The other factors, I am still a novice shooter by any standards, however I am ex military and had experience with my m16 of course, as well as several trips to the shooting range using my buddies glocks and revolvers and rifles, etc. So the inherent noises and so forth don't bother me. So that wont be an issue. The other person who may be handling the gun will be my girlfriend. She has shot both the 9 and the 40, and actually shot better with the 40, but complained of the weight. So....that's another angle Im thinking about.


In most instances, the weight is a benefit. I bought a .40 mini-firestorm for my wife. It's a nice small pocket gun in .40 She hates it, it kicks harder than my 1911. Besides, in the clinch, the extra pound or so will not matter.


> Second, I personally shot better consistently with the 9mm. Although some people feel there's not as much stopping power, Im pretty sure it will kill some one just as easily as the 40 will if necessary. Just like any martial art...the target is just as important as the technique/weapon being used. Besides...I will have more bullets in the mag anyway...:mp5:


Most hand guns now come standard with a 10 round clip. That is not really the issue. Consider your environment when purchasing for self-defense. What happens if the round does not hit bone and punches through? 9mm can and will. Yes it will kill a man, but how many times do you have to hit him? How long before his body knows it's dead?


> Feel...I love the glocks. Im most familiar with them, trust the name, and know I can't go wrong with it. I just don't want to overlook something comparable that I don't know about.


The Springfield XD models are not comparable. They are not as well made. 


> I may look into carrying and will possibly look into getting a permit, but then Im not sure if that would be necessary yet, also considering you can't carry a gun on any premises that you would need it anyway like nightspots, banks, many places of business...etc etc.


 That is a personal choice. Remeber it is against the law to carry a firearm and consume alcohol or be in premises that serve alcohol. 


> So hopefully that will help you guys to help me to make a decision. I want to make sure Im informed in general, as Im still a novice in this arena. Any advice about anything will help me, in addition to of course which gun to choose as my first.


Good guns appreciate in value. If you can afford it, spend the money on the Glock.


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## Van Kuen (Oct 27, 2004)

I was going to buy a G19 from a local dealer for 550 plus tax, comes with all the standard things (except this one wouldve had 2 hi cap mags and a lifetime warrenty from the dealer).  I ordered it last thursday and the guy said they overnight the shipments...I said I will be in tuesday to pick it up.  So I called him tuesday and the guy said he would check to see if it was there.  Well it wasnt "in the ones he looked through, but that didnt mean it wasnt there".  I said I would call back when he could give me a definitive answer.  I called...the answer came back as "they forgot to order it...it will be here 3 oclock tomorrow".  Been there - done that.  They are now off my list for a while.  

I guess everything happens for a reason...because I went looking for a local FFL transfer guy here in town...and found an ex-cop who still does the private work on his motorcycle and at events etc... he's a certified armourer and teaches the concealed handgun classes.  I told him my situation and he told me he has a brand new *G19C* with hi-cap mags he would sell to me for 550 out the door.   He also said he would guarantee his guns for the lifetime I owned it as well...as he is an armourer.  I told him to throw in another hi cap mag and he had a deal.  So now Im paying 580 out the door for the gun and am picking up tonight or tomorrow when I get off work.   

I'm pretty happy now...as long as everything goes right today.  Just thought I would share.


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## GAB (Oct 27, 2004)

Hi Van Kuen,

I will ask you first do you know what the c stands for???

I know what it is and the various pros and cons.

Reevaluate your decision, and don't jump for the c model real quick, was it original or did he do it? I know you said new in the box...

Be careful...Please, don't leap to quick for the c...

Regards, Gary


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## Van Kuen (Oct 27, 2004)

The "C" is for a compensated firearm which is supposed to diminish some of the recoil when the gun if fired through the use of open ports on the upper portion of the slide near the tip of the barrel. From what I understand it is good for beginner shooters and people who just plain don't like/can't handle the kick of the normal G19. In some instances people have said it _CAN_ be more accurate due to the lack recoil. 

I've discussed in detail with some of the dealers around town about the the G19 and the C version, and afer having visited many of the dealers none of them seem to even have the guns let alone provide good customer service or pricing. None of them were willing to lower the price knowing I could buy it from academy for 499 versus their higher 550-650 figures. (the only thing that stopped me was the hi cap mag was not available at academy - nor was the ability to bring the gun back should any problems arise). I looked up FFL dealers in town to do a title transfer from an online site. This guy seems to be on a lot of the websites for my area, and he is a certified GLOCK amourer. So he seems to be pretty well established. And again, the gun is brand new, and never been fired - with all the standard goodies, with the same lifetime warranty as the "big" dealer. So although Im a new buyer....I've also been waiting for the past year doing research on the gun(s) and talking to people.

One of the contributing factors in getting the C model was that my girlfriend will also be using the gun, and many of the gun dealers agreed that the C version is a good option.  Follow up shots can be done quicker and with more accuracy.  None had any negative statements about the gun other then the possibility of the gases becoming a nuisance in low light situations.  But the way I figure it, Im going to shoot two or three times after the initial aim anyway, and I've got the light and laser as well.  If you guys know anything else by all means please let me know before tonight.


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## GAB (Oct 27, 2004)

Van Kuen...

Good, sounds like you are doing or have done your homework...

Like I said before, take into account other persons feeling and what you want.

That's what you just posted, soooo good luck, have fun, be careful and keep in touch...

Regards, Gary


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## KenpoTex (Oct 28, 2004)

Van Kuen, I would personally *never* choose a compensated handgun for anything other than target-shooting or possibly hunting.  For defense it's not the best idea.  One reason is that (as you mentioned) in low light situations (the norm for SD situations) it's going to mess with your night vision.  Another reason is that in a defensive situation you probably won't be able to assume a perfect modified-weaver stance.  In other words, you may have to shoot from a retention postition in which case you're going to be burned by the gasses which, according to some photos I've seen, can be pretty nasty.  Aside from these reasons I don't feel that a compensator is necessary except, as I said, on competition guns or large-caliber weapons where recoil is an issue.  The felt-recoil with a G19 is almost non-existent.

Also, just a piece of friendly advice. You mentioned that you plan to use a rail-mounted light/laser.  While these devices are great, don't make the mistake of relying on them.  Make sure you train w/o them as much as you do with them...batteries go dead.  Also, consider training with a handheld flashlight just in case.

Good luck, burn lots of ammo


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## Van Kuen (Oct 28, 2004)

Yea, I just went through a couple hundred rounds today with the compensated glock.  I burnt some pretty good sized holes through the bullseyes too.  Not bad for not having shot anything for a while!  I was pretty suprised myself.  

Anyway, after doing more research on the impact of the ports and low light situations...from what I've read and been told, the night vision can be inhibited because of the gases in low light situations...but a lot of that depends on the ammo used.  In addition...the laser/light is just there as an added benefit should the need arise, it wont be a crutch as I already shoot pretty well without it.  As far as the gas burns go, I don't plan to "shoot from the hip" all too often.  

I'm going to be taking the concealed carry course next month.  So Im not familiar with all the lingo...whats the weaver stance?


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## 8253 (Oct 29, 2004)

A weaver stance is facing straight ahead with the knees bent and both arms straight with you head droped low.  I personally cant do the weaver stance myself because i cant hit anything with it.  If youve shot a lot and havent learned the weaver stance it is hard to relearn how to shoot in that position.


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## KenpoTex (Oct 29, 2004)

8253 said:
			
		

> A weaver stance is facing straight ahead with the knees bent and both arms straight with you head droped low.  I personally cant do the weaver stance myself because i cant hit anything with it.  If youve shot a lot and havent learned the weaver stance it is hard to relearn how to shoot in that position.


 Actually, what you described is the *Isosceles* stance.  In the Weaver stance you stand partially "bladed" in relation to the target (think of a Kenpo neutral-bow) with your arms flexed.  The main difference between the two is that in Isosceles your arms are both extended allowing your shoulders take the recoil, whereas the Weaver utilizes flexed arms thereby stabilizing the weapon through an isometric "push/pull" action.

A modifed-Weaver is where your gun-arm is extended and your off-hand is bent.  Here's a link to a site that has a more detailed explanation of the positions.


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## Van Kuen (Oct 29, 2004)

HEY WHAT THE HELL MAN THERE'S NO PICTURES?!! 

In any case the only way that I shoot standing for the most part is that of a natural side stance, left side leading and right hand on the gun with left hand supporting.  I can't hit crap using the isosceles stance...but apparently my GF can.  I was taught that stance a long time ago in high school when I went on a field trip to the police academy for my law enforcement class.  So that's how I started shooting.   

I blew some big holes through the bullseyes too...Im pretty proud of that for my first owned gun.


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## Seig (Oct 30, 2004)

I'm a big fan of the modified weaver. I find it allows me to get back on target faster and retain a better picture sight alignment.


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## KenpoTex (Nov 1, 2004)

Seig said:
			
		

> I'm a big fan of the modified weaver. I find it allows me to get back on target faster and retain a better picture sight alignment.


Dito...I've played with the others but Isosceles doesn't work for me at all.  I do like having my gun-arm straight (as opposed to both bent in the classic Weaver), hence the use of the modified-Weaver.


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## arnisandyz (Apr 6, 2005)

I have both Glock (G17) and XD9(SC).  From a "features" standpoint the XD has more. I bought the XD as a CCW weapon and the added backstrap safety was a nice feature for me.  As far as quality and build I vote for the Glock.  Can't beat its tuff tenifer finish and reliability record.  The XDs grip feels better in my hand (less bulge in the palm).  I'm actually shooting as tight if not tighter groups from 7 yards with my compact XD (3" barrel) as I am with with my G17!  XD is also close to $100 cheaper. Can't really go wrong with either pistol.


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## KenpoTex (Apr 7, 2005)

I looked at the XD9 before I picked up my G-19 but I didn't like it at all.  It just felt weird.  I have however been very satisfied with the glock, even if it is chambered in a "sissy poodle-popper" round.


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