# Combat Hapkido With Grand Master J. Pelligrini!



## Brian R. VanCise

*Combat Hapkido* 
is an art that has derived from Hapkido and also has other influences from grappling arts (brazilian jiujitsu) and police defensive tactics.

Following are a variety of the videos for Combat Hapkido out there.

[yt]i56xMJ-XoTs[/yt]

[yt]cXz1-3cuwWQ[/yt]

[yt]ZUExXyFlQX4[/yt]

[yt]9SX2C1FsWwA[/yt]

*I am interested in those that have trained with Grand Master Pelligrini* and their personal opinions on the training, techniques and the man at the helm of Combat Hapkido.  While I have had training in Hapkido I have personally not trained with the GM of Combat Hapkido though I have met a few of his practitioner's and they are simply great guy's.

So looking at the *positives* of this system, what do you have to say about it?


----------



## terryl965

Actually Brian GM Pelligrini is a very talented individual and has alot of great training techs. though his years of training. He is very basic and direct with all his movements and if you ever have the chance do a seminar with him. The money is well spent.


----------



## David Weatherly

A friend of mine did a training seminar with him last year and had nothing but good things to say about Master Pelligrini and the seminar.  In fact, he's looking at training in the art full time this spring.

David


----------



## Drac

David Weatherly said:


> A friend of mine did a training seminar with him last year and had nothing but good things to say about Master Pelligrini and the seminar. In fact, he's looking at training in the art full time this spring.
> 
> David


 
I had a backround in Shorin-Ryu karate and was authorized by the state  to teach at the police academy when I took my first 2 day class for for GM Pellegrini's Police defensive tactics..The ICHF reconized my police training credentals and experience and waved the black belt only requirment..I was so impressed that I flew to Nova Scotia to attend a 2 day seminar there the following month...Like I said in a previous post GMP is not PC all the time, but in the 5 years I have been around him I have NEVER heard him run down any other system, discipline, Master or Grandmaster...


----------



## Eric Deveau

So looking at the *positives* of this system, what do you have to say about it?[/quote]


Greetings,
  I have Been with The Boss for 11 years and I would not be where I am nor would my school if I had stayed where I was at.  I found this org after looking around and being slighted by the Traditionalists and other name Korean M A orgs.  Having been Martial Arts oriented since age 6 the one thing that drew me to this organization and kept me here is the lack of elitist attitudes and ego problems that seem so prevalaent in some other KMA"S and their practitioners not everyone in the world wants traditional (whatever that really means) KMA or any other M A.  GrandMaster teaches and provides much the same as my original instructor and like them has tasked me on several occasions to prove why what I was saying did or did not work much the same as he has done with his. 
  That being said I have enjoyed many seminars and travels with the GrandMaster and everyone else in the group.  Even being injury sidelined for the past two years I still make it to the seminars and I still learn from the experiences, and will continue to do so.
  It is of course about the training so by all means keep training.

I like to say if you get attacked relax and have fun as you do in training.


----------



## arnisador

The HKD and BJJ influences are very clear in the last two clips!


----------



## MBuzzy

I have one seminar worth of experience with ICHF and I loved it.  

The thing that stood out the most to me was actually what some people say is one of the problems.  There are no dictated stances or specific places to put your feet or to move.  Everything that I learned was based solely on being effective and controlling your attacker.  In a real situation, your attacker isn't going to be compliant and let you stand in perfect stances and step correctly and place your feet here....they will move and react and you have to react with them.  Most of the other traditional styles that I've encountered (including traditional Hapkido) require your opponent to stand still and don't talk a lot about training with resistance or opponents who are fighting you.  All in all, I think that ICHF has it right.  It isn't for everyone, but I think that it is a great style with my experience.


----------



## howard

MBuzzy said:


> The thing that stood out the most to me was actually what some people say is one of the problems.  There are no dictated stances or specific places to put your feet or to move... In a real situation, your attacker isn't going to be compliant and let you stand in perfect stances and step correctly and place your feet here....they will move and react and you have to react with them.



Could you explain what you mean by "dictated stances"? Are you suggesting that traditional hapkido has formal stances, like TKD or karate?



MBuzzy said:


> Most of the other traditional styles that I've encountered (including traditional Hapkido) require your opponent to stand still and don't talk a lot about training with resistance or opponents who are fighting you.



With all due respect, this is simply incorrect with regard to traditional hapkido (by my definition, the art that Choi Yong Sul taught when he repatriated to Korea from Japan, and which is still taught in a few places). Compliant attacks are used to teach basic principles to beginning and intermediate students, but advanced techniques are practiced against attackers who are moving with intent and/or grabbing or striking at you with intent. The attacker's momentum is actually a key element in the techniques, in that the defender exploits that momentum to his advantage, and to the disadvantage of the attacker. That is the essence of aikijujutsu; accordingly, it is the essence of Choi's hapkido.

Once again - Choi Yong Sul's original style of hapkido had NO formal or "dictated" stances. You move more or less like a boxer - on the balls of your feet, in balance, mobile. At the very moment your attacker makes contact with you, or attempts to, you take your attacker's balance, and you never give it back. Then, you control him, then you finish him.

If you all want to put combat hapkido on a pedestal, by all means do. But please don't presume to do it at the expense of Choi Yong Sul's art. Choi taught a comprehensive system of unarmed self defense that derives from aikijujutsu and is effective against many types of attacks. Anybody who sees fit to criticize Choi's art should have a basis of years of training in it in order for their criticisms to be valid. Anybody who says things akin to "we took the formal stances and formal trappings out of traditional hapkido" simply has no idea what they're talking about. There's really no other way to put it.


----------



## MBuzzy

Howard - agreed.  Let me rephrase.....please replace the "traditional Hapkido" with "some of the traditional hapkido that I have encountered."  My post was in no way intended to be an attack of ANY style of Hapkido.  I have a great respect for traditional hapkido and would love to learn it.  I simply don't have any hapkido schools in range for me, so I stick to my base art for now.  

If you are lucky enough to be at a school that keeps to the original traditions that you mentioned (which I admit, I am not aware of), then you are in fact lucky and I do hope that your school is representative of a majority.  I have experience with 4 hapkido schools that I have had the opportunity to attend/observe.  3 did have dictated stances, hyung, and very compliant attackers.

The school that I attend on a very limited basis for Haidong Gumdo training is a great Traditional Hapkido school and does not include these things (although they do have hyung).  I suppose the take-away from my experience is that there is a wide variety in Hapkido training and for that matter in the training of ALL arts....some is good, some is not as good.  

One of the things that I do like about Combat Hapkido is their organizational standarized elimination of some things, which in my PERSONAL experience is not widespread.


----------



## MBuzzy

I should also add that I have had _about _the same amount of exposure to combat hapkido and traditional hapkido.  With combat hapkido, my experiences were 100% good...which is perhaps because I had great instructors.  My experience with Traditional Hapkido was closer to 25% good and again, that could just be my bad luck for running in to what _may_ have even been the three only bad hapkido instructors or ones who didn't follow the traditions.  And my style isn't blameless either, we have just as many instructors who don't stick to the traditions and do things their own way and may even be classified as "not as good."  Again - in no way a detraction from traditional hapkido, only a discussion of my positive experiences with Combat Hapkido.


----------



## MBuzzy

Ok, last one along these lines, I promise!!!

There is one more thing about Combat Hapkido that I feel strongly about.  The ICHF has NEVER claimed to be traditional hapkido.  In fact, they make it pretty clear that they ARE NOT traditional Hapkido.  So as far as I'm concerned, they are different styles.  The Hanja for Hapkido is &#21512;&#27683;&#36947; (literally: meet energy/power way), which is the same chinese as the Kanji for Aikido (although Aikido now does prefer the use of &#27671; instead of &#27683;, but that's semantics...just simplified vs traditional, same word).  So TO ME - there is no requirement for a comparison between Combat Hapkido and Traditional Hapkido.  Yes, I am guilty of doing it in my post, I admit it!  Sorry!  But I just had this thought.....
As far as I'm concerned, there is no more requirement for similarity between Combat Hapkido and Traditional Hapkido as there is between Tang Soo Do and Karate.  Ok....just my opinion....although a bit more thought out now that we're on the topic.


----------



## Drac

At more than one seminar GM Pellegrini will ask if there are any LEO's, CO's, Sheriffs, etc.etc.. He will then take us aside and show us a couple of movements that pertain to what we may encounter and not shown to the rest of the attendees..I attended one seminar put on my a different GM and you were not allowed to ask him questions directly, you had to go through one of his senior students and maybe you would get an answer...


----------



## YoungMan

I'll tell you,
I've seen some of the clips of Pellegrini on YouTube, and to be quite honest, he doesn't impress me. He seems clumsy and stilted, and without a sense of timing that characterizes authentic masters. I don't care if he's John Pellegrini the Founder of Combat Hapkido. I don't find him impressive.
That and the fact that he wants to be on the cover of every MA magazine that will have him.


----------



## Hollywood1340

I've FELT GM Pellegrini, so I speak from experience as opposed to those who have "seen" him. In Kenpo we have a saying "To see is to doubt, to hear is to be deceived, but to feel is believe" Well worth the time no matter what your training. I really enjoyed my time in the ICHF.


----------



## exile

YoungMan said:


> I'll tell you,
> I've seen some of the clips of Pellegrini on YouTube, and to be quite honest, he doesn't impress me. He seems clumsy and stilted, and without a sense of timing that characterizes authentic masters. I don't care if he's John Pellegrini the Founder of Combat Hapkido. I don't find him impressive.
> That and the fact that he wants to be on the cover of every MA magazine that will have him.



Ah yes&#8212;but then, you were able to 'tell' from video clips of late 20th century revival taekyon that TKD got its kicks from that nouveau creation, right! Maybe that should tell you something about just how much one can tell from video, YM? :lfao:

And you might notice that the OP wasn't asking about your opinions of Gm. Pelligrini based on a video or two. He was asking the views of people who actually know something about Gm. Pelligrini. Pay particular attention to the bits in red:



			
				Brian Van Cise said:
			
		

> _*I am interested in those that have trained with Grand Master Pelligrini* and their personal opinions on the training, techniques and the man at the helm of Combat Hapkido.  While I have had training in Hapkido I have personally not trained with the GM of Combat Hapkido though I have met a few of his practitioner's and they are simply great guy's.
> 
> *So looking at the positives of this system*, what do you have to say about it?_



That pretty much lets you out, YM, since you have no firsthand knowledge of Gm. Pelligrini's teaching or physical capabilities, or anything else, right? And you're hardly in a position to say anything about the _positives_, as Brian requested, right? So maybe your comments are a bit off-topic... you think?

I've been at an all-day seminar with Gm. Pelligrini, and I have to say that both pedagogically and technically he is _brilliant_. There were a number of rather huge guys there from a Marine batallion, I think, and he used them to demo some basic techs&#8212;they weren't being in the least compliant, but he controlled them like puppets. My training partner was one of those guys, he knew a good deal about the system, and as he said while we were doing drills, if you execute them correctly, you _own_ the attacker from the getgo. GmP emphasized the important of a 'fence' defensive posture from the outset, and showed clearly how many effective techniques can be spun off as variations on a few simple, basic principles. It was gratifying to see that many of those techs are clearly latent in the movements in familiar TKD  and Karate forms&#8212;a point which just goes to emphasizes how complete those systems are. The strategic differences between those striking arts, on the one hand, and Combat HKD on the other, are evident, but many of the tactical skills involved beyond simple kick/punch/block literalism are the same.

GmP is a real gentleman, a skilled instructor, and utterly, totally unpretentious. Would that all self-described masters were that way, eh? 

And thanks to Drac and Father Greek for putting on that terrific, smoothly run and enormously informative seminar with Gm. Pelligrini!


----------



## Drac

Hollywood1340 said:


> I've FELT GM Pellegrini, so I speak from experience as opposed to those who have "seen" him.


 

If all the nay-sayers would attend a seminar with an open mind and volunteer to be an Uke and then they would be fit to pass judgement..


----------



## YoungMan

Ah yes, Exile. More of your brilliant insight:uhyeah:

Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt. I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.

Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Youngman the op (that is me) set this thread up to discuss the positives bout the ICHG and Grand Master Pelligrini.  If you stay within that topic great if you go away from the positives then you are not in line with the topic at hand.  Thanks.


----------



## arnisador

It's tough to judge by videos, but sometimes that's all we've got. Lots of the Systema material looks suspect to me but so many people I know and respect believe in it after having tried it that I reserve judgment!


----------



## exile

YoungMan said:


> Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt.



It might have occurred to you that he was asking for feedback from people who actually had some firsthand experience with Gm.P _precisely because_ he himself had none, and wanted to know what those who'd in fact _had_ some had thought about it? People who actually _knew_ something about the topic at hand, in other words? Follow the reasoning here? 



YoungMan said:


> I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.



Oh, I can well believe you've had _way_ more than six year's experience watching video clips and figuring you now knew something about the art in question as a result! :lol:

But seriously, YM&#8212;no, you really _can't _get a feel for 'someone's overall technique' by watching a video clip. And what's the point of all that experience if your judgments are still so wide of the mark that they're in the next county already? 



YoungMan said:


> Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.



Well, that's material for your autobiography, YM  but since&#8212;as already noted&#8212;everything you've posted in this thread contradicts the terms of the OP, and is therefore off-topic according to the site rules, maybe you should quit now while you're ahead? _Know what I mean?_


----------



## terryl965

YoungMan said:


> Ah yes, Exile. More of your brilliant insight:uhyeah:
> 
> Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt. I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.
> 
> Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.


 
Well YM if you are not inpressed with him then go to a seminar and become his personal UKE, because I have been on the recieving end a few times and it is not nice to be there. I wish you would stop passing judgement on Exile, he does deserve some respect and he has six plus years and is a BB. I would love to see you stay on topic just once and not go on about Exile.


----------



## exile

terryl965 said:


> Well YM if you are not inpressed with him then go to a seminar and become his personal UKE, because I have been on the recieving end a few times and it is not nice to be there.



This is something I too noticed at the seminar near Cleveland that Drac and Father Greek organized. The guys who served as uke to Gm. Pelligrini were, as I mentioned before, not at all compliant 'demo-partners'. They were military guys, big and... how can I put this... _well aware_, clearly, of how they might look in the eyes of their fellow soldiers based on their performance. They were not going to give anything away, is what I'm saying. And these were not just big guys, but _experienced_ as well: they were far from novices in hand-to-hand combat.  

But one of the points that Gm.P emphasized, repeatedly, was that size is irrelevant so far as Combat-HKD strategic thinking is concerned because the essence of C-HKD thinking involves, ultimately, forcing moves involving joints, and regardless of how big you are, or strong, the correct application of physical forces at the right joints will bring you down to the ground. The first principle is, don't get hit&#8212;and for that, the Fence-based defensive positioning is perfect: any strike coming into a well-maintained Fence configuration in effect delivers the striking limb into the 'safekeeping' lol of the defender, while giving the latter the choice of going inside or going outside. Surrendering these key combat assets virtually guarantees that a well-trained CHKDist can take the assailant over, because once the initial pin, lock or armbar is established, everything works like a forced mate in chess&#8212;and the ukes who worked with Gm.P at that seminar found themselves in that situation repeatedly. I was there, very close, and I could see&#8212;being there, as I say&#8212;that they were being anything _but_ cooperative, something that might not have come through on a camcording (only one of very, _very_ many reasons why you can't necessarily tell bugger-all about what's happening in a MA situation by watching a video of it, in case anyone's interested :angel. Gm.P is not a big guy at all&#8212;he's lean, sinewy and average height or less&#8212;but by gaw, _he knows exactly what he's doing and exactly what to do_ in each case.

Since second hand information, including the grossly misleading medium of YouTube clips, is so inferior to actual firsthand exposure in athletic activities, I really urge people, even those committed (as I am) to a striking art strategic approach, to try to attend a seminar or two with Gm. Pellegrini&#8212;even if you don't want to do CHKD as your base art, the controlling moves shown are brilliant for setting up the finishing strikes that you're looking for.  And Gm. P. is a skilled instructor as well as a virtuoso technician&#8212;it was not just great, but great fun, at his seminar. I mean to get to another one, come what may!


----------



## Drac

YoungMan said:


> Ah yes, Exile. More of your brilliant insight:uhyeah:
> 
> Brian distinctly said he had not trained with Pellegrini either, so I figure another one who had not been in direct contact with him wouldn't hurt. I can watch a YouTube clip and get a feel for someone's overall technique. Unlike you, I've had more than 6 years experience.
> 
> Again, not impressed by what I saw. Sorry for the easily impressed among you.


 
So just by watching a tape you can tell if a technique will work???:BSmeter:


----------



## terryl965

Drac said:


> So just by watching a tape you can tell if a technique will work???:BSmeter:


 
Yes Drac YM has had the superman effect, which we all know is he knows more than everybody else.:angel:


----------



## exile

terryl965 said:


> Yes Drac YM has had the superman effect, which we all know is he knows more than everybody else.:angel:



I can just see Gm.P reading the post you're talking about, shrugging and turning his hands up with that great 'Well, waddya gonna do??' expression of his... this is another aspect of his work that I think needs to be pointed out, in response to Brian's query, beyond his technical and teaching skill: he's a genuinely _reasonable_, down-to-earth, amiable human being, who wears his enormous knowledge and skill lightly. He's not trying to intimidate you, he's secure in who he is and what he can do. The last thing he would think of doing, if you asked him a question&#8212;and believe me, we asked him _plenty_ at that seminar&#8212;would be to give some rubbish about 'Do it this way because I've been doing MAs for 40 years, I'm the founder of a certified Hapkido Kwan, a Master+ BB rank (KKW certified) in Taekwondo, and etc etc'. He answered every question that was asked with a technical explanation: do it this way because it works better than doing this other way, or that way, given the angles, the direction the attacker's momentum is going in, the fact that you need to get your own leg out of the way if you want him to go to the ground without taking you with him, etc.

In other words, he talked about the logic of the techniques, not how important his 40+ years in the art made him&#8212;an approach which displays wisdom, maturity and common sense all at once, I'd say!


----------



## Father Greek

I have been to a great many seminars with GMP and can honestly say that I take away something new each and every time. GMP is not the kind of man that needs to be on center stage at all times. Many of his seminars include Masters of other styles as well. His basic philosophy is, the more tools in the tool box, the more prepared you will be for the job at hand. As a practioner and Senior Instructor of Combat Hapkido, I find that the concepts and movements are very flexible and responsive to changing situations. As we all know, when it comes to the real stuff hitting the fan, NOTHING IS SCRIPTED OR STATIC! I am a firm believer in the Combat Hapkido System and I respect  GMP as a true teacher and a true gentleman. We do not agree on everything as is the way it should be. There are some techniques that I would never consider using but at the same time these same techniques provide valuable insight into many other areas.


----------



## Dana

"not how important his 40+ years in the art made him"

First of all, I really am not taking sides.  I have been personally at a JP seminar and I do remember when JP was just TKD, not HKD, and that was in the mid-1980s.  I went to one of his seminars when he was still with the Garrison group (shortly after his first TKDT cover) in 1990/91 and did work with him at times.  At that time, he was a provisional or new 2nd dan HKD and did not really impress folks who had a Hapkido background.  That was 20 years ago and I'm sure he has gotten better.  JP is a guy you either love or hate and I'm sure he is fine with all that; he has found his own nitch.  

Dana


----------



## Drac

Dana said:


> "not how important his 40+ years in the art made him"
> 
> First of all, I really am not taking sides. I have been personally at a JP seminar and I do remember when JP was just TKD, not HKD, and that was in the mid-1980s. I went to one of his seminars when he was still with the Garrison group (shortly after his first TKDT cover) in 1990/91 and did work with him at times. At that time, he was a provisional or new 2nd dan HKD and did not really impress folks who had a Hapkido background. That was 20 years ago and I'm sure he has gotten better. JP is a guy you either love or hate and I'm sure he is fine with all that; he has found his own nitch.
> 
> Dana


 
Bravo Dana...Well said...


----------



## Drac

exile said:


> This is something I too noticed at the seminar near Cleveland that Drac and Father Greek organized. The guys who served as uke to Gm. Pelligrini were, as I mentioned before, not at all compliant 'demo-partners'. They were military guys, big and... how can I put this... _well aware_, clearly, of how they might look in the eyes of their fellow soldiers based on their performance. They were not going to give anything away, is what I'm saying. And these were not just big guys, but _experienced_ as well: they were far from novices in hand-to-hand combat.
> 
> But one of the points that Gm.P emphasized, repeatedly, was that size is irrelevant so far as Combat-HKD strategic thinking is concerned because the essence of C-HKD thinking involves, Gm.P is not a big guy at all&#8212;he's lean, sinewy and average height or less&#8212;but by gaw, _he knows exactly what he's doing and exactly what to do_ in each case.
> 
> And Gm. P. is a skilled instructor as well as a virtuoso technician&#8212;it was not just great, but great fun, at his seminar. I mean to get to another one, come what may!


 
Those that Exile speak of were Marines, they embodied everything you think of when you hear the term badass Marines..Tall and muscular, it didnt matter they went down easily..The surprised looks on their faces said it all..How did this tall skinny guy do it that?? I myself am 6'1" and about 260 and have been in and out of the arts about 30 years..The first time I Uke'd for GMP I (despite knowing how to fall ) still hit the floor like a ton of bricks and about as gracefull as an elephant on roller skates...That's what hooked me...


----------



## Drac

Father Greek said:


> GMP is not the kind of man that needs to be on center stage at all times. Many of his seminars include Masters of other styles as well. time these same techniques provide valuable insight into many other areas.


 
He had George Dillman at one and I had heard all the negativity about him and watched him do a few techniques and said well maybe it will work on that little skinny Uke, but not on me..So I volunteered to Uke..I have been hit by the best and *NOTHING* prepaired me for this, a slight tap and my arm went numb...* Uncle* (Willem de Thouars)* Bill* is another regular at our seminars..Ask Father Greek what happened when he asked Uncle Bill to hit him...


----------



## jim777

I haven't had the pleasure of being at one of GM Pellegrini's seminars, but I have gone to a few seminars with Master Brian McCain here in New Jersey, and I have to say I would absolutely, positively be studying Combat Hapkido if it were just a little closer to me. I hope I can study it full time in the future. As much as I like the kata of traditional Japanese/Korean karate styles, CH really impressed me as a style.


----------



## Burnerbob

Watching GM Pelligrini's videos, Seeing Richard Barathy in magazines, never meeting O'Sensei Urban, but YM has a lot to say about these and other Martial Arts greats.
I have has the pleasure of meeting all of the above except YM.
And for information I have been around Martial Arts since my junior high school days. I am sixty years old.


----------



## Drac

A visit to the ICHF webpage http://www.dsihq.com will list all the schools and upcoming seminars...Don't be fooled by imitators..If you have any real concerns you can call them..The phone is usually answered by Master David Rivas or GMP's wife..


----------



## Hapkidoman

I personaly have first hand knowledge of CH having trained in it for many years. It is a good system, but it is what it is, and what it is not is "Hapkido" . It is a system derived from many other systems. It is not a "Martial Art", but rather a self defense system. Which is what it claims to be. As far as Pellegrini goes, he is no different than the head of any other large and successful organization, there is a certain amount of ego, but I think that is to be expected from someone in his position. I am not condoning this, just accepting that it exist. I have been to seminars where I have heard him criticize other systems, but only in respect to their effectiveness in real selfdefense circumstances, and in some cases I would agree that some systems to lack effectiveness in some cases. It is certainly ok to think that, I just don't think you should say it, especially in a public forum, where you are teching. Just my opinion.


----------



## Daniel Sullivan

Firstly, I'd like to recommend that this thread be moved to the hapkido section, as it is a hapkido topic.



Hapkidoman said:


> I personaly have first hand knowledge of CH having trained in it for many years. It is a good system, but it is what it is, and what it is not is "Hapkido" . It is a system derived from many other systems. It is not a "Martial Art", but rather a self defense system. Which is what it claims to be.


I agree that it is a self defense system, but how, in your opinion, is it not a martial art? 

Given that CHKD has plenty of martial application, I'm not sure where you are coming from with this.  The 'art' in martial arts is not the 'art' in *fine* arts (such as painting, music, or dance).  It is 'art' as in the 'art' of war, or more specifically, the _science_ of war.

Now, one can debate whether or not self defense is 'martial' but using the term martial to refer to defense, be it of one's self or of others, is how the term martial is used in most martial arts.

So in that regard, I would consider CHKD as much a martial art as anything else.



Hapkidoman said:


> As far as Pellegrini goes, he is no different than the head of any other large and successful organization, there is a certain amount of ego, but I think that is to be expected from someone in his position. I am not condoning this, just accepting that it exist. I have been to seminars where I have heard him criticize other systems, but only in respect to their effectiveness in real selfdefense circumstances, and in some cases I would agree that some systems to lack effectiveness in some cases. It is certainly ok to think that, I just don't think you should say it, especially in a public forum, where you are teching. Just my opinion.


So long as he is not denigrating other systems and is supporting his statements with sound technical reasoning, I'm not sure that I agree.  People take up martial arts for a variety of reasons, and not all of them specifically for self defense or fighting.  

Some arts are also taught in such a way that their martial application is divorced from the curriculum.  For example, Tai chi has martial application, but if you go to the community center and take the fitness Tai chi class, you will get very little 'martial' in the art.  But the people taking that class are not looking for 'martial.'  They're looking for the life benefits of Tai chi and those classes are designed accordingly.

Some people just like to compete and win trophies/medals.  Kendo is a great competitive art for that and has kata with archaic martial application (swords), but unless you walk _around_ with a sword, the self defense value of kendo is rather lacking.  Then there's kyudo; won't win trophies, but you'll make targets sprout arrows pretty darned well.  But unless you carry your daikyu and a quiver of arrows, don't expect to use it for self defense.

Some people are looking for an art with a lot of spirituality.  Others want to enroll their kids in something that builds character and is taught in a place that will pick up, watch over, and drop off their kids after school. 

When I spoke with GMP on the phone last summer, he said that all martial arts have value.  But that value is not the same value in all cases.  He is being very up front about what the value of his system is.  Because he is promoting his system (those seminars are designed to promote the art), I would expect a degree of self promotion.  It is not unusual for people promoting a product to do brand X comparisons.  

Is it right?  So long as brand X is not misrepresented, I don't see it as wrong.  Is it tasteful?  Can be.  Depends on the context.  Not having been to the seminars you attended, I will not judge them specifically.

Daniel


----------

