# Who Would Win Blah Blah Blah



## Nicholas82555 (Feb 4, 2011)

I was reading an article on who would win...Ip Man vs Bruce Lee, Lee vs Mas Oyama on and on and on...Ahhh the world of "what ifs". What seems to always irritate me is the misnomer that because you're stronger and very aggressive you're automatically the winner. Point in case, I was reading where Mas Oyama would destroy little ol' Yip Man hands down.

I admirer both of them but just the mere fact that someone is bigger, more brutal and stronger is suppose to win all the time. Well, I prefer them exactly that way. The fatter the head the easier to deal with.

No one in the article every mentioned Wong Shun Leung...I wonder why..hmmmm
Just a thought.

B4 some of you go off on a tangent..this is just a general comparison of a physical nature.


----------



## Aiki Lee (Feb 4, 2011)

This week on _the deadliest warrior!_

Ip Man, the kung fu master and teacher of the legendary Bruce Lee!

vs

Mas Oyama, the bull killing karate man who founded the brutal style of kyokushinkai!

Our team of experts will scientifically determine who would best the other in acontenst of strength and skill! Here on _THE DEADLIEST WARRIOR!!!_
------------------------------------------------

Honestly I agree with you. People who post these questions and feel they can have a definitive answer usually are inexperienced in any martial system. Its the same thing to me as "my style is better than your style" or "my dad can beat up your dad".


----------



## Poor Uke (Feb 4, 2011)

Mas would win (ducks and runs for cover)


----------



## WC_lun (Feb 4, 2011)

I just don't get the vs arguements.  Suppose one of the men is your direct teacher.  He is the best fighter the universe has ever seen.  That doesn't mean a darn thing if you have to fight.  All that matters is can YOU defend yourself.

I see a lot of vs post in which it seems the guys argueing in it, if confronted, are gonna pull thier favorite fighter out of thier back pocket...or tell the thug, "I trained in XYZ, you don't wanna mess with me!"


----------



## Inkspill (Feb 4, 2011)

Miyagi would intervene and the three of them would do kata at sunrise.

ok, no disrespect, but Mas Oyama's bull killings weren't exactly the most dangerous of situations. I was sad when I found this out too. but still, he punched through a bull's skull on occasion, as well as his horn removals.

I don't know a ton about Yip Man, but knowing a little Wing Chun and a little Kyokushin, I think it's a matter of can Oyama land brutal shots, and can Yip Man deflect the blows and attack the center, and do damage to a hardened full contact fighter. They are both experienced in their arts, and I would figure both to adapt quickly and the fight would go through many changes if it didn't end quickly. I can see where Oyama would win, and where Yip Man would win.


----------



## Vajramusti (Feb 4, 2011)

Blah blah blah would win most of the time.

An Ip Man anecdote- he would move onlya little bit  and things would happen::

An ex- student of mine who teaches yoga once told me a story about Ip  man that he heard froma Chinese lady whose father took regular private   wing chun lessons from Ip Man. Ip Man used to come to the father's house  and teach in the courtyard. Different martial artists wiuld  occasionally stop by. I asked the ex-student to recollect the story and  here it is:


I remember a girl from China whose family trained with Ip Man,  what she remembered about him is that he was a very quiet, polite and  unassuming man with no ego.  She remembered him saying he was "very nice  and soft spoken".  She said he wasn't all that big of a man, but when  he worked out with people he would barely move and these people would go  flying all over the room.  She said he amazed everyone with how little  effort he would use to deflect massive attacks and that things flowed  around him like water around a rock.  I don't remember if karate people  came up or not, but she said no-one or no-style could do anything to  him, she said in a blink of an eye, they were "flying all over".
 Hope that helps, that's all the details I can remember.
---------------------------------------------------

joy chaudhuri


----------



## yak sao (Feb 4, 2011)

Vajramusti said:


> Blah blah blah would win most of the time.
> 
> An Ip Man anecdote- he would move onlya little bit and things would happen::
> 
> ...


 

That's how I want to be when I grow up


----------



## jaidee (Feb 6, 2011)

IP Man was mostly known for his kicks.  Dunno why most of the wing chun practitioners nowadays focus too much on the upper body.


----------



## seasoned (Feb 6, 2011)

I always felt it was not how hard you hit but where you hit. The stronger the person the more they rely on that attribute, which may not work on an individual that floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee........ just saying.:asian:


----------



## Vajramusti (Feb 6, 2011)

jaidee said:


> IP Man was mostly known for his kicks.  Dunno why most of the wing chun practitioners nowadays focus too much on the upper body.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ip Man was good with hands and feet. He reportedly was super good with his kicks- but depended more on hands with the aging process- quite naturally.
In Ip Ching's book on his father he mentions an incident where Ip Man wearing  a long robe bent down at the entrance to an establishment to pick up a newspaper. A pick pocket reached at a pocket of IM where he had an expensive pen. Out came a IM  back kick that sen the thief flying!!
joy chaudhuri


----------



## jaidee (Feb 6, 2011)

Vajramusti said:


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ip Man was good with hands and feet. He reportedly was super good with his kicks- but depended more on hands with the aging process- quite naturally.
> In Ip Ching's book on his father he mentions an incident where Ip Man wearing a long robe bent down at the entrance to an establishment to pick up a newspaper. A pick pocket reached at a pocket of IM where he had an expensive pen. Out came a IM back kick that sen the thief flying!!
> joy chaudhuri


 

I think its suffice to say to train both. And not just rely on the upper body and the most powerful portion of the human anatomy is the lower body.


----------



## mook jong man (Feb 7, 2011)

It is very important to practice your arm and leg techniques , and what many people fail to realise is that everytime you are in your stance or performing your Sil Lim Tau form you are actually also training your kicking .

This comes about in several ways-


The muscles in the thighs are being stretched , over time they learn to relax , which facilitates fast kicking.
By working on your stance you are also working on your foundation which includes balance , so that when you do eventually kick you will be able to generate power from a solid platform and not merely bounce off the target.
Because of the angle of the legs whilst in the stance , just as with the hands , there is an optimum angle for attack and defence. In other words by maintaining this angle your legs will be in the best position to generate power in kicking for attack and also the best position for deflecting , sweeping and hooking movements in defence.
In the old days , in some schools , students were not taught kicking until after about four years of training.
This is because the stance and balance must be developed to a certain degree before you even think about raising your leg in a real fight.
Even low kicking such as used in Wing Chun is a specialised skill which requires stability , speed and precision.


----------



## geezer (Feb 7, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> In the old days , in some schools , students were not taught kicking until after about four years of training.
> This is because the stance and balance must be developed to a certain degree before you even think about raising your leg in a real fight.
> Even low kicking such as used in Wing Chun is a specialised skill which requires stability , speed and precision.


 
Along this line I recall one time when my old Chinese instructor told us that there was a saying that went something like this, _"We train the kicks to take care of the other Wing Chun men. The hands are enough for everybody else."_ Accordingly, he did not spend too much time on the kicks at the beginning. Now the stance, on the other hand, _Good Lord!_ did we spend a lot of time on stance and steps!

Interestingly, the European branches of that same organization integrated kicking techniques into their drills and sparring earlier (and very effectively). I wonder if young guys brought up in a _soccer culture_ might not tend to be more apt with their feet? Especially considering the way we use our feet in WC, almost like hands. If you can effortlessly trap and control a soccer ball.... some of that would probably translate to WC pretty well.


----------



## Nabakatsu (Feb 7, 2011)

Interesting point there Steve.. makes sense.
I played a lot of soccer as a child myself, 6 or 7 years, and did lots of crazy kicking in my younger shadowboxing days. Footwork, kicking and chi gerk are some of the stuff that interests me the most.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2011)

2 Wing Chun Schools 2 different lineages but I am not a good source for this since I did not get past Sil Lum Tao                        

Ip Man > Ip Ching > My Sifu1: 
- No kicks trained, but that does not mean they would not be latter, like I said, I was not there that long

Ip Man > Ho Kam Ming > Fong Chi Wing > My Sifu2
Ip Man > Leung Sheung > Fak Tak Ling > My Sifu2
- Kicks trained as part of warm-up but not many and this does not mean that more would or would not be trained later 

But then one had uniforms and a ranking system (Sifu2) and the other didnt so to each his own

As to who would win and why.ummmwho cares.

I know a Chinese gentleman that is greater than 6 inches shorter than me who I likely have a hundred pounds on and he is over 20 years older than me and he can throw me around like a rag doll. I also know a Chinese Gentleman that is an inch shorter than me, same age as me and I may have 50 pounds on him and he could beat me to a pulp. Now put one against the other and to be honest I am leaning towards the older smaller guy, but to be honest I do not know nor do I care.  Now neither are Wing Chun but you get the idea.


----------



## Vajramusti (Feb 7, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> 2 Wing Chun Schools 2 different lineages but I am not a good source for this since I did not get past Sil Lum Tao
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2011)

Vajramusti said:


> Xue Sheng said:
> 
> 
> > 2 Wing Chun Schools 2 different lineages but I am not a good source for this since I did not get past Sil Lum Tao
> ...


----------



## mook jong man (Feb 7, 2011)

geezer said:


> Along this line I recall one time when my old Chinese instructor told us that there was a saying that went something like this,
> 
> *"We train the kicks to take care of the other Wing Chun men. The hands are enough for everybody else."*
> 
> ...


 
I would go along with that , we have all chi sau sparred other guys that can match our hand speed , know all our little tricks and it seems to take an eternity for you to break through their defences.

The exchange becomes a stalemate with you countering him and him countering you , add a fast low kick in with the hand trapping and it might be enough to turn the tide of battle.


----------

