# Real challenge fight



## fighterman (Feb 22, 2012)

HIS IS AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED RECENTLY IN ITALY. I WONT COMMENT ABOUT THE LINEAGE BUT BASICALLY IT WAS A WING CHUN GUY WHO CLAIMED TO BE THE BEST AND COULD TAKE ON ANYBODY TRAINING 8 HOURS A DAY FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. IT TOOK A 70 CHILO KID WITH TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF THAI TO BEAT HIM.
PLEASE NOTE THIS GUY BAD MOUTHED ALL LINEAGES OF WING CHUN


----------



## WingChunIan (Feb 23, 2012)

if he has trained 8 hours a day for 20 years he needs to ask for his money back. I'd say more like 6 months twice a week based on how he moves and the way he fights. As for the other guy he might have done muay thai but he's also done either BJJ or MMA (even if only to a basic level) judging by his guard position and his reversal to mount. Still not exactly a real challenge match though given that they were wearing gloves and it got stopped and restarted twice and no one was in any way hurt. If the guy has been mouthing off then he got himself embarrassed but in any case hopefully they'll both learn something from the experience.


----------



## hunt1 (Feb 23, 2012)

With out knowing his back ground any comments are really just conjecture. 

This could be a perfect example of the need for pressure testing with strangers to understand reality vs being the king of chi sao in your school or it could be as Ian said someone with very little experience and an active fantasy life.


----------



## Cyriacus (Feb 23, 2012)

Please dont use Allcaps.

Now, I saw neither Wing Chun or Thai Boxing. I saw Wrestling with some Arm/Leg Swings here and there.
It kinda looked like poor quality unrefined MMA.
And where was the Power? And Speed? On both sides, I mean.
Lastly, where was the resistance to the Wrestling? They just both kinda went with it.

EDIT: In hindsight, a pretend wrestler would oust these two.


----------



## ETinCYQX (Feb 23, 2012)

Was anyone else reminded of this?

[video=youtube_share;AS4bPgwizqc]http://youtu.be/AS4bPgwizqc[/video]


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Feb 23, 2012)

fighterman said:


> HIS IS AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED RECENTLY IN ITALY. I WONT COMMENT ABOUT THE LINEAGE BUT BASICALLY IT WAS A WING CHUN GUY WHO CLAIMED TO BE THE BEST AND COULD TAKE ON ANYBODY TRAINING 8 HOURS A DAY FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS. IT TOOK A 70 CHILO KID WITH TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF THAI TO BEAT HIM.
> PLEASE NOTE THIS GUY BAD MOUTHED ALL LINEAGES OF WING CHUN



OK, first of all, I don't care about what arts are involved, or what lineage, or who badmouthed whom.  What are we, six years old?  Let's grow up.

Second, that was the silliest slapping contest I've ever seen.  Neither person knows the first thing about anything related to martial arts.  I am not an expert myself; I only have four years in Isshin-Ryu training; but even I can tell that was talentless, untrained, silly-buggers.

And third, please don't type in all CAPS.  It makes it look LIKE YOU ARE SHOUTING.  Very hard to read.

Thanks!


----------



## mook jong man (Feb 23, 2012)

Was I watching the right clip?
There was nothing that had the faintest resemblance to Wing Chun in it.
I assume it was the smaller guy that was supposed to be a practitioner , but he did not exhibit either the characteristic Wing Chun stance or guard , more like a quasi boxing stance and guard.
If you watch closely, several times he had the opportunity to use the centerline punch straight to the face of the taller guy , but instead ridiculously he chose to try and get his arm around the other guys neck to effect some sort of head lock.
I don't know what he is , but he's certainly not doing Wing Chun as I know it.
There are techniques from the wooden dummy form that are used to pull on the neck , but these are used to pull the opponent into an elbow strike , knee strike to bladder or some other strike.

Not for attempting to put the opponent in a head lock which would require the use of brute strength , the Wing Chun guy will always be trying to keep both his hands free or use one to trap while the other is striking , that is one of the skills taught in sticking hands


----------



## yak sao (Feb 23, 2012)

hmmmm....watched the video and I couldn't tell who was supposed to be who.

Neither of them looked like they had a nickle's worth of training


----------



## WC_lun (Feb 23, 2012)

First clue that someone is NOT classically trained in Wing Chun is when they break thier own center line without being forced to do it.


----------



## fighterman (Feb 23, 2012)

for Now I'll keep the comments going then I'll fill you in on the whole story


----------



## mograph (Feb 24, 2012)

So you'd like us to make our comments based on incomplete information? 
:hmm:


----------



## naneek (Feb 24, 2012)

well, credit to both for getting out there to do a little sparring, though i dont think i would credit this as a serious fight, both looked as though they hadn't done much sparring at all previous to this and all training (however much they had) kinda went out the window. but you have to start somewhere i guess. i cant see that any of these guys had 20 years of training though - maybe twenty lessons.


----------



## Danny T (Feb 24, 2012)

No Way either have 2 1/2 years "real" wing chun or muay thai training much less 20 years. And very little to no sparring/fight experience. Muay Thai guy no proper mt stance or structure, same for wc guy. Both holding their chin extremely high and the dropping of the hands when punching is complete inexperience. Trained MT and WC no way!


----------



## fighterman (Feb 27, 2012)

In brief the story goes like this. The smaller stockier guy has been badmouthing all wing chun lineages proclaiming himself the number one italian exponent of William Cheung. and claims he ttrains 8 hours a day for the past 20 years.... he's been going on like this for about 3 years also claiming he had already defeated notable wing chun wing tsun ving tsun masters etc etc etc...
also he claimed he beat up and he could take on MMA fighters and in this case he claimed that the opponent he fought (if we would like to call it a fight) he would defeat him in 5 seconds with one hand... personally whether they were prepared or not I feel he got his just desserts. If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others


----------



## Cyriacus (Feb 27, 2012)

fighterman said:


> In brief the story goes like this. The smaller stockier guy has been badmouthing all wing chun lineages proclaiming himself the number one italian exponent of William Cheung. and claims he ttrains 8 hours a day for the past 20 years.... he's been going on like this for about 3 years also claiming he had already defeated notable wing chun wing tsun ving tsun masters etc etc etc...
> also he claimed he beat up and he could take on MMA fighters and in this case he claimed that the opponent he fought (if we would like to call it a fight) he would defeat him in 5 seconds with one hand... personally whether they were prepared or not I feel he got his just desserts. If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others


Send Me in with My Hands Cuffed behind My Back and Ill beat them both up.
I bet WC_lun, WingChunIan, Bill Mattocks, and Mook Jong Man can all say the same.
Because they were both atrocious at what They were doing.
Just dessert is all fine and whatnot but this was a poor excuse for a wrestling match, and nothing more.
Hell, this is more interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5YNCtWLkjk&feature=g-vrec&context=G217d815RVAAAAAAAABg


----------



## yak sao (Feb 27, 2012)

fighterman said:


> In brief the story goes like this. *The smaller stockier guy has been badmouthing all wing chun lineages proclaiming himself the number one italian exponent of William Cheung*. and claims he ttrains 8 hours a day for the past 20 years.... he's been going on like this for about 3 years also claiming he had already defeated notable wing chun wing tsun ving tsun masters etc etc etc...
> also he claimed he beat up and he could take on MMA fighters and in this case he claimed that the opponent he fought (if we would like to call it a fight) he would defeat him in 5 seconds with one hand... personally whether they were prepared or not I feel he got his just desserts. If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others




Why did I know you were going to say that???


----------



## fighterman (Feb 28, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Send Me in with My Hands Cuffed behind My Back and Ill beat them both up.
> I bet WC_lun, WingChunIan, Bill Mattocks, and Mook Jong Man can all say the same.
> Because they were both atrocious at what They were doing.
> Just dessert is all fine and whatnot but this was a poor excuse for a wrestling match, and nothing more.
> ...


Fair enough, I never said it was a pro match


----------



## Jenna (Feb 28, 2012)

fighterman said:


> If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others


fighterman, would you say you hate showoffs and invincible masters more than you hate the idea of them misrepresenting theirselves and defrauding the public of their money?  Which is the worst offence would you say?

Is the only way to rid the arts of charlatans to debunk them?  How can this be done when -to the public- they appear and sound convincing?  I think the public are not always fussed about certificates and lineage and all that.  They just like flamboyant technique and big promises.  How do we educate the public and also, how do we avoid being seen as showoff, false prophet and invincible master?  Thank you.


----------



## simplewc101 (Feb 28, 2012)

I saw no Muay Thai, and I saw no Wing Chun. I train at a school with a sifu who teaches both.. almost any student with 6-12 months training could have beat both of them at the same time with one arm and one leg behind their back... naw i kid, i kid, but almost any student with 6-12 months training could have fought either one and had a decisive victory.
The only thing he has been training for 20 years is 12 oz curls, he's not in shape , check end of video when he has his shirt pulled over his head while he's in the guard


----------



## Cyriacus (Feb 28, 2012)

fighterman said:


> Fair enough, I never said it was a pro match


You said it was Wing Chun and Muay Thai. This was a slapfight with some kind of screwy wrestling.


----------



## fighterman (Feb 28, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> You said it was Wing Chun and Muay Thai. This was a slapfight with some kind of screwy wrestling.


I think ur missing the point. this is what they claimed not me. i presented the film


----------



## fighterman (Feb 28, 2012)

Jenna said:


> fighterman, would you say you hate showoffs and invincible masters more than you hate the idea of them misrepresenting theirselves and defrauding the public of their money?  Which is the worst offence would you say?
> 
> Is the only way to rid the arts of charlatans to debunk them?  How can this be done when -to the public- they appear and sound convincing?  I think the public are not always fussed about certificates and lineage and all that.  They just like flamboyant technique and big promises.  How do we educate the public and also, how do we avoid being seen as showoff, false prophet and invincible master?  Thank you.



actually ud be surprsed (and im talking about europe although in australia it was pretty much the same) that people are fussed about certificates, uniformity, lineage, traditional, original, etc etc, it all makes good marketing. and if i write enough on the public boards, advertise, and bombard the internet and even do some good well rehearsed demo then alot of people believe me. it all depends on how u market. what better way than a young guy showing up to your front doot with a video camera and say 'Hey I think you're full of it, lets see what you can really do'? Then put it on the internet.?
A lot of people especially inexperienced people really cant tell the difference between a good teacher and a good promo. people unfortunately are not that smart and believe alot of things. People will believe for example we are in an economic mess when there is in reality enough money on the planet to purchase all the property on the planet 6 times over (sorry for the off topic) 
The internet and video tecnology is a great way to show scams and rip off merchants. theres many around. The revolution in egypt in part came about because students had video and internet tecnology, they show their parents how well everybody else is living and of course they wake up to the reality that their average earnings of 200 euro a month and poor quality life is not on...
maybe im wrong but i think the internet is a great place to start. the internet is also aiding many unresolved murder cases, missing people etc


----------



## Cyriacus (Feb 29, 2012)

fighterman said:


> I think ur missing the point. this is what they claimed not me. i presented the film


Aha. And to what end?


----------



## Jenna (Feb 29, 2012)

fighterman said:


> actually ud be surprsed (and im talking about europe although in australia it was pretty much the same) that people are fussed about certificates, uniformity, lineage, traditional, original, etc etc, it all makes good marketing.



Thank you for your kind reply.  Yes, I was playing devil's advocate there to make the point.  I should have made that clearer, apologies.  I appreciate that if these certificates, affiliations, former instructors and lineage were not important then the charlatans would not waste time faking them.



fighterman said:


> and if i write enough on the public boards, advertise, and bombard the internet and even do some good well rehearsed demo then alot of people believe me. it all depends on how u market. what better way than a young guy showing up to your front doot with a video camera and say 'Hey I think you're full of it, lets see what you can really do'? Then put it on the internet.?
> A lot of people especially inexperienced people really cant tell the difference between a good teacher and a good promo. people unfortunately are not that smart and believe alot of things. People will believe for example we are in an economic mess when there is in reality enough money on the planet to purchase all the property on the planet 6 times over (sorry for the off topic)
> The internet and video tecnology is a great way to show scams and rip off merchants. theres many around. The revolution in egypt in part came about because students had video and internet tecnology, they show their parents how well everybody else is living and of course they wake up to the reality that their average earnings of 200 euro a month and poor quality life is not on...
> maybe im wrong but i think the internet is a great place to start. the internet is also aiding many unresolved murder cases, missing people etc



I think the internet can be a double-edged sword in a way, would you agree?  

I mean if a good teacher is also a clever marketeer, they can disseminate their message very widely and with great success.  The other side of that coin is that if they do not post up their absolute best video performance, forum advice or opinion, then what is posted and lasts forever on the great democracy that is the internet is a piece of unrepresentative work that gives forever a false perception of their true capabilities.  

By that same token, a MA fraud can -if they put up a convincing enough video or type things that make them sound as if they are trained in ways they are not- appear to possess a skill and an expertise that they in reality do not.

I think you are right about the internet as a source, though whatever advantage it provides you as a bona fide MA expert, it also provides to those that are neither of those things, is this not true?  If true, then how do good instructors educate a wider public (I mean to those that do not train in their dojo) and differentiate theirselves from the charlatans when both have access to the same technology and marketeering?

Your opinion is welcome, thank you


----------



## fighterman (Mar 1, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Aha. And to what end?


what do you mean to what end? i think ive already made that obvious


----------



## fighterman (Mar 1, 2012)

Jenna said:


> Thank you for your kind reply.  Yes, I was playing devil's advocate there to make the point.  I should have made that clearer, apologies.  I appreciate that if these certificates, affiliations, former instructors and lineage were not important then the charlatans would not waste time faking them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you I started internet marketing a few months ago. i saw a niche and thought i could provide a service online instead of the dojo in fact here is my link if you want some video tutorials http://www.wingtchundo.com/where-you-can-find-us.php
Ive been doing MA for 37 years and last thing i want to do is rip people off so im giving it a shot in marketing. the worst people can do is say ima no hoper and get nowhere but i can live with that, but so far so good. so yes i agree if you are good then you have to try and expand if thats your desire in life. however i think you have to make the virtual lesson almost better and very detailed than a physical lesson. so yep i agree you have to be good in both areas.
ps anyone interested in getting free vids im coming out with lesson number 3 soon and i take no offence in constructive criticsm. take care to all in the forum


----------



## Cyriacus (Mar 1, 2012)

fighterman said:


> what do you mean to what end? i think ive already made that obvious


...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?

Heh.
Ill join the party then. Cool.


----------



## fighterman (Mar 2, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> ...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?
> 
> Heh.
> Ill join the party then. Cool.


if you have trouble understanding the point of the topic then i respect your point of view


----------



## wtxs (Mar 2, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> ...To show everyone an uninteresting unskilled wrestling match type thing with Wing Chun and Muay Thai labelled on it?
> 
> Heh.
> Ill join the party then. Cool.




Hot damn man ... she can take my moneeh any time.:boing2:


----------



## Cyriacus (Mar 2, 2012)

fighterman said:


> if you have trouble understanding the point of the topic then i respect your point of view


Im not having trouble understanding it - I know what Youre intention was. But it really is just two people novice wrestling with slapping tacked on.
You presented a film of this for us to view, about someone who supposedly went on about how he trained every day for 20 years, with some other guy, then they did what looks to Me more like Beginner MMA Light Sparring with a grappling focus?
My point is that it doesnt achieve very much, either in what theyre doing, or telling folks about it. The reason I added that Video is to simply do the exact same thing as what You did, and see what Youd say. Which was interesting.
Your earlier reply was that it wasnt a Pro Match. It doesnt need to be. Actual beginners can do better than this. Which is what leads Me to believe that theres either some disinformation afoot, or that this was, literally, intentionally, just a friendly grappling match.

If Youre having trouble seeing where Im coming from, as were the majority of people who replied to this Thread, I also Respect Your Point of View.


----------



## fighterman (Mar 4, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> Im not having trouble understanding it - I know what Youre intention was. But it really is just two people novice wrestling with slapping tacked on.
> You presented a film of this for us to view, about someone who supposedly went on about how he trained every day for 20 years, with some other guy, then they did what looks to Me more like Beginner MMA Light Sparring with a grappling focus?
> My point is that it doesnt achieve very much, either in what theyre doing, or telling folks about it. The reason I added that Video is to simply do the exact same thing as what You did, and see what Youd say. Which was interesting.
> Your earlier reply was that it wasnt a Pro Match. It doesnt need to be. Actual beginners can do better than this. Which is what leads Me to believe that theres either some disinformation afoot, or that this was, literally, intentionally, just a friendly grappling match.
> ...


I think I understand you. personally I felt it was important (as I still do) to put into light the people who go out of their way to discredit other systems, styles and people who genuinely train hard and teach with passion to try and better peoples abilities. maybe if you were in our country you would see things differently, in this case i felt it should be put onto a world view simply because the oerson in question was replicating a situation that had happened some 25 years ago with Emin Boztepe and GM William Cheung.
now think of how many people are brainwashed by a two dimensional screen and also by a vertiual reality that basically conditions people (who many times act like sheep ie: they'll believe almost anything as long as they see it on screen or read it because it's written therefore it must be true)
having said that as much as this fight is very similar to a confrontation between children, nevertheless it should be exposed. it should also be exposed how much negative influence the internet could have by writing and claiming sensational things and then producing collaborative demostrations to which people fall subject in believing this is reality. here a young guy with minimal fighting experience beats up a 20 year fenomenon....
not only but he does it quite easily. the guy who wins if he wanted to especially whern he had him in the mounted position refrained from hitting him much harder and controlled himself.
so i think it is important to be real and honest with people. I guess fundamentally this is my point


----------



## MA-Caver (Mar 4, 2012)

I've seen better fights out on the streets by two guys with NO training what-so-ever. 
Watching this was no different than watching a school-yard fight. Agreed with Bill... couple of 6 year olds in a tussle. Sheesh.


----------



## Cyriacus (Mar 4, 2012)

fighterman said:


> I think I understand you. personally I felt it was important (as I still do) to put into light the people who go out of their way to discredit other systems, styles and people who genuinely train hard and teach with passion to try and better peoples abilities. maybe if you were in our country you would see things differently, in this case i felt it should be put onto a world view simply because the oerson in question was replicating a situation that had happened some 25 years ago with Emin Boztepe and GM William Cheung.
> 
> *Of course - But Students aside, if You wanna do that, look at entire outlets where the Teachers Teach a drained-of-life method. Plus, neither person was skilled. They could have been beginners, with big mouths for all I know.*
> 
> ...



The Internet can claim sensational things. But the thing is, this isnt sensational. This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight. Nothing will change that.
Heres an example I can find in a hurry;








And glance at the uniform.
And if You spot the hilarious part, that isnt a part of the Video, it will make more sense how this is relevant to the next part.

Fundamentally, this shows peoples inclination to glorify what they like, and put down what they dont.
Before the Comments section stopped existing, Im sure like every other Video about MA Crossovers, it was a debate between fanatics of each side calling the other crap. But at the end of the day, noone is going to change any opinions based on these.
Its one fight, and it means nothing in any given scheme of things.

Sure, be Real and be Honest.
But one persons Real may be different to another, and many People think They are being Honest, even if Theyre not.
And You say He controlled Himself, but are You sure this wasnt Light/Semicontact Sparring? There was no heavy hitting at all, at any point. Just because He doesnt do it then doesnt make it control.
As for, its written therefore it must be true; I hear a LOT more people talking about people who think that, than I hear people who actually do that. Granted, some people are foolish. But the context of their foolishness is no different to the information being given to them.
For instance, are You sure this wasnt Light to Semi Contact?


----------



## fighterman (Mar 5, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> The Internet can claim sensational things. But the thing is, this isnt sensational. This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight. Nothing will change that.
> Heres an example I can find in a hurry;
> 
> 
> ...


yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy who attacks like a kamikaze


----------



## Tez3 (Mar 5, 2012)

fighterman said:


> yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
> and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy *who attacks like a kamikaze*



he dives out of the sky and lands on him?


----------



## mograph (Mar 5, 2012)

Cyriacus said:


> This is, in fact, a grapply slapfight.


So it's _not_ just me who thought that.


----------



## fighterman (Mar 6, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> he dives out of the sky and lands on him?



no intended as an act of desperation when there is nothing left to do


----------



## KamonGuy2 (Mar 21, 2012)

Okay, I have to say that this is one of the most unintentionally funny threads I have read on here. Its titled 'Real Challenge Fight' with a video that shows two guys going lighter than what I do with beginners at Kamon (seriously, my training session on Monday had more strikes involved than in that video).

I would love the details of the participants in the video to be named. If one of them is claiming to be the best wing chun guy around and better than other styles, I see no problem in releasing more details about him

From what I have seen, I would have no problem taking on either of those guys, and Im not even halfway to being at the top of the wing chun ladder. Infighting and politics is so stupid. Crap technique is crap technique. Doesnt matter where a student is from or what teachers he trained under a decade ago. Wing chun students should pride themselves on being involved in a progressive art that constantly evolves and changes


----------



## Cyriacus (Mar 21, 2012)

fighterman said:


> yeh Im sure even because i know both the guys involved
> and the guy that was on top realised that this guy wasnt worth much in fact he says in italian 'as far as Im concerned this fights finsihed' as if to suggest that it wasnt worth the effort. if you notice its the smaller guy who attacks like a kamikaze


How did I forget this thread.

You know the guys? Cool. That doesnt really change much. Because these were very gentle blows.

The smaller guy doesnt attack too hard at all.



mograph said:


> So it's _not_ just me who thought that.



Correct!


----------



## fighterman (Mar 25, 2012)

yep fair enough, however one may feel better than these guys as a fighter doesnt change the facts that this is what happens when u claim yourself to be the best at what you do, doesnt change the fact that when you discredit people ,and in this case all other wing chun lineages masters from guitierez to boztepe to wong shun leung you have to be willing to back yourslef up or at least have the minimum preparation. now up until this date the guy was a self professed miralce man of the world wing chun clan. he defiantly said he could take anybody on ANYBODY, and the results were a mediocre kid with basic thai box training gets the better of him...
this guy was doing seminars selling bart chum dao that he made personally and had a growing online business. the fact that this fight is ridiculed is ok as far as im concerned. it brings to light how much televised internet brainwashing that happens in mass proportions.
this guy has now got a low profile doesnt vertiiually teach anymore because he instantaneously lost 95 percent of his students. and all because he claimed to have some form of original wing chun and everybody else was crap.
for the record the guys name is Roberto Blandino


----------



## Stylez777 (Apr 16, 2012)

I understand what the purpose was in posting this on the internet.  I get the fact the guy claimed to be the greatest wing chun person alive etc etc and someone challanged him and called him out and proved he was a liar and had no skills.  Think everyone get's that to some degree.

The problem I have is this was not a fight.  I am sorry if this offends someone but if you put on gloves and have rules it's not a fight it's a competition/sport.  This is not to say people who do this don't train hard or that they can't fight.  What I am saying is that those people are great at what they do.  If I am on the street and I am attacked I am not worried about not being able to do something because it is against some rule.  If I can immobilize my opponent in 1-2 moves I will do it and be on my merry way.

I have limited Wing Chun experience.  I have only trained 1 month in Wing Chun (I won't go into what lineage and political things like that) and I haven't even scratched the surface.  Yet when I hear or read what people think about Wing Chun and relating it to chain punching and how this won't work in a real fight or anyone who does MMA can stop that I laugh.  I laugh because I know if I am in a "real" fight I might crush a guys knee and collapse his trachea or do some other nasty extremley painful move that you cannot do in an organzied competition or sport before i thought about chain punching.  I'd stomp on a guys nuts if I had the chance too and it ment him not getting back up to attack me.  Wing Chun is not all about "Chain Punching" and so many hatters always relate it to that it bothers me.

So the thing I feel was this topic is far misleading.  This was not a real challenge fight.  This was a organized competition between 2 men with a rule set that looked very poor and you could clearly see both mens lack of skill.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi!



Stylez777 said:


> I understand what the purpose was in posting this on the internet.  I get the fact the guy claimed to be the greatest wing chun person alive etc etc and someone challanged him and called him out and proved he was a liar and had no skills.  Think everyone get's that to some degree.
> 
> *Yep.*
> 
> ...



Also, Welcome to MartialTalk, Good Sir!


----------



## ETinCYQX (Apr 17, 2012)

Just to restate I don't know WC much but I didn't see much Muay Thai nor much skill there at all. 

Cyracius we should start an MMA promotion. Grapply Slapfighting Championship


----------



## Stylez777 (Apr 17, 2012)

Cyriacus,

I appreicate the post but I want to clarify what I was trying to say because my point might have been missed a little.


I was not trying to say that I can take anyone out in 1-2 moves.  I was trying to say that if I could do it like if the opportunity arrose that I was able to land 1 or 2 moves, kicks punches whatever to stop my attacker in his tracks so he cannot continue to attack me I would do so.  What I was trying to explain is the difference between what I feel is a fight and a competition/sport. In a fight with rules you cannot do anything you want.  You have to fight within the rules of the competition. Once a restriction is put in place that you cannot do X I feel it is not a real fight. If someone attacked me and had me mounted on the street and I know I had the ability to strike up at the throat area to free myself (I'm just making up a hypothetical here) I'd do it.  In an MMA competition I couldn't do that so more than likely I'd lose.  Again this is just a scenario I hope you understand my point.  I wasn't trying to put down anyone who trains for competition or sport becaue I know how hard they train and I have an extreme amount of respect for what they do.  I also didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying MMA fighters can't defend themselves in a real fight or anything of that nature, because that is simply untrue.  I don't feel one style is better than another either.  This video posted was not a real fight, I can;t even say it was a competition it was an abomination if you ask me.

I didn't mean to come off like I personally was over confident or anything of that nature because I most certainly am not that way.  It also depends on the person as well, adrenaline affects people in many ways.  If I have trained and was able to control my adrenal response and I knew how to react to the situation with instict and not thought of course I'd be far more dangerous.  I wasn't trying to make a case by case point.  Again all I was saying is that if I was fighting off an attacker it would be far different then fighting someone in a ring, cage, areana etc with rules or pads or gloves.  Just because you put gloves on your hands and say you can throw punches and elbows doesn't mean you can strike anywhere you want.  Also there is a huge difference in theory and application.  I may know that I can strike the throat and possibly kill someone but actually being able to do it in the heat of the moment is another story.  That is where intense training comes into play.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 17, 2012)

Stylez777 said:


> Cyriacus,
> 
> I appreicate the post but I want to clarify what I was trying to say because my point might have been missed a little.
> 
> ...



Just My Contribution.



ETinCYQX said:


> Cyracius we should start an MMA promotion. Grapply Slapfighting Championship



We may need to make it Semi-Contact but. That stuffs dangerous, man.






He totally TKO'd that dude, Man. Wed need to have them put on big puffy palm pads and stuff, too!


----------



## Stylez777 (Apr 17, 2012)

Cyriacus,

Excellent points and glad we sorta agree on most things.  one thing you said "*Boxing, for example, is perhaps about as close as You can get to fistfighting, due to its very few rules, save the restriction of which Limbs You can throw around. As a result, its strikes are all incredibly simple, and most people can already do them, completely untrained. It cultivates that. The strength of Systems like Wing Chun, is similar. In Boxing, Youre trying to pin down Your Opponent, then end them. In Wing Chun, Youre trying to lock them up as close as possible, then end them. And the tools used in between, fit that spectrum. Both ways work." *Myself personally I don't clasify fights as fistfights or grappling fights etc etc.  A fight is a fight to me, you use whatever you have to use to win.

An example I can think of (this is not braging so please don't take it that way) 2 years ago I was outside of a bar talking with a few friends.  One thing led to another inside the bar with some drunk guy and another drunk guy and a girl.  As I am standing outside the 1 drunk guy comes behind me and punches me in the head thinking I was the guy who hit on his girlfriend (I know this because he was yelling at me about it after he hit me). He stepped back and put his hands up egging me to fight him (lot of curse words flying around) he was bigger than me (I am 6'2" 225) and drunk.  I figured out in my head in a nano second that I couldn't win this fight with throwing hands.  I ripped off a near by car antenna and pretty buch beat him to the gorund with it until he didn't want to get up.  I won't lie I was scared, I was affraid if I fought him he woudl hurt me pretty bad, so I did what I had to do.  Afterwards I heard someone say "wow that wasn't really a fair fight at all..." I was going to reply but I left out of fear of someone else attacking me or being arrested for assualt.

Point being what style did I use?  no style.  at the time I had trained already in Karate, Boxing and was doing MMA (BJJ and Muay Thai) at the time.  I didn't use any of it.
I just reacted fast and won. (believe me also there were quite a few times I reacted fast and lost).  So I agree 1,000% with you that those my style is better thatn your style is bs. No 1 style is better than another when it comes to application. Though training intensely in whatever you choose will teach your body to react without the thought process which I guess is what every Martial Artists strives for.


----------



## Cyriacus (Apr 17, 2012)

Stylez777 said:


> Cyriacus,
> 
> Excellent points and glad we sorta agree on most things.  one thing you said "*Boxing, for example, is perhaps about as close as You can get to fistfighting, due to its very few rules, save the restriction of which Limbs You can throw around. As a result, its strikes are all incredibly simple, and most people can already do them, completely untrained. It cultivates that. The strength of Systems like Wing Chun, is similar. In Boxing, Youre trying to pin down Your Opponent, then end them. In Wing Chun, Youre trying to lock them up as close as possible, then end them. And the tools used in between, fit that spectrum. Both ways work." *Myself personally I don't clasify fights as fistfights or grappling fights etc etc.  A fight is a fight to me, you use whatever you have to use to win.
> 
> ...


Of course a fight is where You do what You have to to win - But Boxing has next to no rules. You can punch peoples throats, for instance.

Thats a justified use of force. It isnt bragging if its true, of course 
And it was likely a good call, since He was intoxicated, and likely less privy to normal blunt forced trauma.

And We righteously agree on the end, Good Sir!


----------



## grumpywolfman (Jun 29, 2012)

fighterman said:


> In brief the story goes like this. The smaller stockier guy has been badmouthing all wing chun lineages proclaiming himself the number one italian exponent of William Cheung. and claims he ttrains 8 hours a day for the past 20 years.... he's been going on like this for about 3 years also claiming he had already defeated notable wing chun wing tsun ving tsun masters etc etc etc...
> also he claimed he beat up and he could take on MMA fighters and in this case he claimed that the opponent he fought (if we would like to call it a fight) he would defeat him in 5 seconds with one hand... personally whether they were prepared or not I feel he got his just desserts. If there's soemthing I hate is showoffs, false prophets, invincible masters that in the end his aim was to gain money and pubblicity lying to the public through misuse of the internet....ok maybe Im a 6 year old but this is how I feel and so do many others



I think this was the clip that you may have been looking for?


----------

