# Which sword art do you study?



## Captain Harlock

I am curious on what arts are most common here.

I've studied Battojutsu, Iaido and some fencing.


----------



## arnisador

I've done iaido and some Tai Chi sword. Now in arnis I do stickwork that has a blade awareness and can be translated to the sword (with some changes). I'd like to try Western fencing and Kendo some day!


----------



## AikiSano

I want to do some Kendo, but does aikido swordwork count?


----------



## arnisador

I think aikido swordwork is more iaido than kendo, isn't ot?


----------



## Eddie Miller

To quote a 6 Dan in Aikido "Aikido Swordwork is nothing more than to teach the Aikido Student the basic rolls and other motions of Aikido." This person also happens to train in Iaido as well and also holds a high rank in it as well. As for Kendo. Kendo is not really "Sword Work" either. A lot of the things we do in Kendo can not be used with the real sword simply because of the differences from Shinia to real sword. But its a lot more fun.


----------



## TLH3rdDan

too bad we have to settle on one choice for the poll... but i study basic fencing and also some kenjutsu... although i end up doing my own thing combining both styles lol


----------



## Eddie Miller

Hey  TLH3rdDan 


 Just curious who you practice with up in Nashville? I am originally from Memphis and I did not know any one was up that away. I studied under Harry Dach Sensei in Memphis and Shinobu Meade Sensei is in Sweetwater but I did not know of any other styles other than a few renigade Iai people up that away.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

> _Originally posted by TLH3rdDan _
> *too bad we have to settle on one choice for the poll... but i study basic fencing and also some kenjutsu... although i end up doing my own thing combining both styles lol *



Dude...its a multiple choice.....  heh.


----------



## TLH3rdDan

lol i didnt see that kaith lol... i used to study with a few students of dale kirby...


----------



## Captain Harlock

> _Originally posted by AikiSano _
> *I want to do some Kendo, but does aikido swordwork count? *



For the sake of this survey, yes.

Thank you.


----------



## ThuNder_FoOt

I study Iaido... our dojo also has Iaijutsu, but I will not see it until I reach higher rank .  I would lke to learn some kendo though. I'm not sure how easily an Iai student can learn kendo though ...


----------



## Charles Mahan

Since you draw a distinction, what is the difference between iaido and iaijutsu in your dojo?


----------



## ThuNder_FoOt

I'm not sure myself. I've never questioned it...


----------



## arnisador

My understanding is that iaido has sacrificed some combat effectiveness for idealized techgnique that helps one develop one's character. Iaijutsu would be the older, more practical system.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I've got an article coming out in the next issue of MT Mag that addresses some of the differences between the two.

:asian:


----------



## Charles Mahan

> My understanding is that iaido has sacrificed some combat effectiveness for idealized techgnique that helps one develop one's character. Iaijutsu would be the older, more practical system.



Really.  Interesting.  Which Iaido would that be?  Zen Nippon Kendo Renmei Seitei Iaido?  All koryu Iaido?  Any particular koryu Iaido?

So what would you make of say the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu?  MJER is a member organzation of the Zen Nippon Iaido Renmei.  It is a very combat effective system.  The MJER Seitokai rank certificates list the system as MJER Iai-heiho.  

Since Kaith has written an article about this topic, I'm interested particularly to here and discuss his views.


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Charles Mahan _
> *Which Iaido would that be?  Zen Nippon Kendo Renmei Seitei Iaido?*



Yup.



> *All koryu Iaido?  *



In principle, in adopting the name iaido one would think they've taken to pushing a "way" over a set of techniques but in practice these things are not always consistent.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

> _Originally posted by Charles Mahan _
> *Since Kaith has written an article about this topic, I'm interested particularly to here and discuss his views. *



Its only a brief touching on it based on my own research.

(from August 2003 MartialTalk Magazine
"Iaido is believed to have begun its development around 1200AD.  Iai is differentiated from the ken styles in that the sword is initially sheathed. Iai is composed of drawing the sword, bringing it to combative use in minimal time, and then resheathing it.  You start from both combative postures, and at-rest positions such as seated. The reason for these non-combat positions is that they are everyday positions. One could expect attack at any time, so the ability to respond and survive was considered essential.

As the student progresses, the do aspects are often left behind and the jutsu becomes more pronounced. The major difference between the 2 styles is that while Iaido focuses on the mental aspects, Iaijutsu focuses on the combative techniques. Many students find iaido to be a meditative art in their search for perfection of the draw. " 

Personally, I am looking to at somepoint study either kenjutsu or iaijutsu, once time, money and a qualified instructor are available.  My areas sadly rather devoid of sword arts.


----------



## Charles Mahan

In my experience, there is simply no distinction drawn between iaijutsu and iaido.  You cannot, or rather should not, seperate the character building aspects of Iai from the combat effective aspects of the waza. 

Think of it like this.  In an Iaido dojo, every workout is focused exclusively on learning how to fight with a sword.  You carefully study the techniques and learn the basic combat principles of the style.  You train hard to master these techniques.  Form is absolutely critical with swords, because the margin of error is so small and the consequences of failure are so high.  Unlike unarmed combat, if you flub a block.  YOU DIE.  There are no second chances.  So form is naturally VERY important.  Your focus in training is tightly focused on learning how to kill your opponent before he kills you.

The character building/spiritual aspect of iai, comes from continous training under a respected instructor.  You pick it up through sheer osmosis.  It isn't taught.  It's not part of the curriculum, and it doesn't really come from the techniques.  Basically you hang out with good people and it rubs off on you.

There are a few instructors and dojos which do not focus on combat effective technique, but they are not doing iaido as opposed to iaijutsu.  They're just doing it wrong.  Plain and simple.


----------



## Jeff HArris

I  very much enjoy Shinkendo


----------



## islandtime

> _Originally posted by Captain Harlock _
> *I am curious on what arts are most common here.
> 
> I've studied Battojutsu, Iaido and some fencing. *


...............................................................................

Always Kuniba Ryu Iaido, frequently Mugai Ryu Iaido and every once in a while MJER Iaijutsu

Gene Gabel


----------



## liangzhicheng

I'm studying Wu Style Tai Chi sword, and have also "learned" the Wu Style broadsword.


----------



## arnisador

Can you summarize some of the differences between how the regular and broad swords are employed (here or in another thread)?


----------



## liangzhicheng

Sure thing (perhaps better in the Tai Chi thread?).  From what I understand, the broadsword is the first weapon learned in Tai Chi.  It provides a foundation for the sword.  The broadsword is characterized by more sweeping motions, and  is not as intricate in motion as the sword.  The broadsword is single edged, and in some movements, the non-sword arm grasps the back of the broadsword, and theoretically can hold onto the broadsword when letting go of the handle.  (note that the broadsword I am referring to is not the tai chi broadsword like the one at martialartsmart, but something similar to kung fu broadswords. I have not seen any internal style broadswords for sale on-line)  The Wu style broadsword includes a few small "leaps", and has more kicks than the sword.  Training with the broadsword gets the student comfortable with using a weapon, and introduces blade control and using the weapon as an extension of the body.  The sword form is quite different than the broadsword.  The sword is used in a more "refined" manner, that is, the sword often moves using a smaller circle than the broadsword and require more control.  I think there's more of a focus on extending the qi into the weapon, and balancing it out with the sword charm hand, but this is from past research, not something my Sifu has told us.  There are more single legged postures in the sword form, which really show whether or not you have balance.  I'm still studying the sword, but from what I know now, the sword has more detail in the movements.  Furthermore, while both forms require looseness, any lack of looseness really shows in the sword.  I think there's a saying that "it takes 100 days to master the broadsword, but it takes 1000(0?) days to master the sword".  I hope this helps.


----------



## ScottUK

> _Originally posted by Charles Mahan _
> *In my experience, there is simply no distinction drawn between iaijutsu and iaido.  You cannot, or rather should not, seperate the character building aspects of Iai from the combat effective aspects of the waza. *



I agree with Charles.

Everyone wants to practice iaijutsu because it's 'oh so much cooler than iaido'.

If you _really_ need to draw a difference, you could call seitei 'iaido' and koryu 'iaijutsu' only due to their relative ages, though in theory they should both be practiced as Charles has already said.

You may notice that people who are really into their iai practice often use neither term, but instead refer to it as 'iai'.

Best wishes,

Scott


----------



## Charles Mahan

> _Originally posted by ScottUK _
> *If you really need to draw a difference, you could call seitei 'iaido' and koryu 'iaijutsu' only due to their relative ages, *



You could call the main line of MJER Iaijutsu if you want, but you'd be technically wrong.  The organization uses Iaido and Iai-heiho.


----------



## pete

i just began learning wuji tai chi sword, and unlike liangzhicheng's reference to wu style, we learn the jing tai jian as the first weapon.


----------



## abzack

Haidong Kumdo


----------



## SenseiBear

I study a sword system called White Lotus, which is derived from a Korean system (or Northern Chinese through Korea).


----------



## arnisador

Please start a thread somewhere and tell us more about it!


----------



## Kempo Guy

I study Iai as well (Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo), which is actually a sogo bujutsu and includes iaijutsu, kumi iai, kenpo (kenjutsu), kogusoku, naginata, jo, wakizashi and kusarigama. 

KG


----------



## kroh

Hello to all... Grew up doing Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu ( which included kenjutsu as part of its syllabus).  The school has since closed.   I now study a system called Shinko Ryu Kempo which has sword instruction as well (fast draw and combative sword techniques).


I have also been studying Filipino Arnis for a few years now.   The sword work in that is dynamic.  Quite different from the flavor as done by the Japanese.   

Thanx for the minute...
WalT


----------



## arnisador

I used to live in Providence. (Great town for dining out!) Where is there FMA in RI now? I did some Uechi-ryu while I was there.


----------



## kroh

Hey there...
     Funny thing that you mention the Uechi Ryu... The instructor that I train with is a Godan in Uechi under first under Erle and then under Mattson.  

      I currently train in the Derderian Academy of Martial arts under Raffi Derderian.   The school is on the Cranston, Johnston, Providence line.    Raffi is a certified instructor of Filipino Combatives under Walter Hochheim (varied lineage; trained in the Filipine Islands) and under Kevin Seaman ( Inosanto lineage ).   Good place and the guy is a very good instructor.  I refuse to train under yo-yo's and I choose my schools carefully.    am very happy with the instruction i recieve.

If you want to check it out...



www.derderian-academy.com 


Thanx for the minute...
WalT


----------



## Master Todd Miller

I study and teach a Korean Sword art called
Chung Suk Guhapdo (Blue stone Qiuck display Sword).  This style is very much like Iaido,  We practice Hyungs/Kata, Sparring like Kumdo, Cutting and Hapkido with the sword dealing with another swordsman.  The training is very hard and ranking takes many years of practice.

Take care
Master
Todd Miller
Korea Kojun Mudo Federation


----------



## ScottUK

What type of sword do you use?  Got any pix?

Scott


----------



## Master Todd Miller

I have a small collection of Swords made by Master Kim (a Korean sword smith).  His family has been doing this for 10 generations.  I will try to get some digital pics soon.  

Todd Miller


----------



## sercuerdasfigther

serrada escrima


----------



## don bohrer

I just started learning 32 tai chi narrow sword form. I will also be learning a straight sword form found in the Hung Ga system. Lot's of nifty stuff 


don


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Master Todd Miller _
> *I have a small collection of Swords made by Master Kim (a Korean sword smith).  His family has been doing this for 10 generations.  I will try to get some digital pics soon.  *



That would be great!

I know a little about iaido but all I know about the Korean sword I've learned from this site.


----------



## Jay Bell

> "Aikido Swordwork is nothing more than to teach the Aikido Student the basic rolls and other motions of Aikido."



Not sure I'd agree with this...  Ueshiba sensei noted on many occasions that Aiki-jo and Aiki-bokken were developed from his training to awaken the kami

For those of you interested, Aikido Journal has recently released Aiki-jo and Aiki-bokken DVD's featuring the late (and *great*) Saito sensei.  

Aiki Jo & Bokken DVDs


----------



## Black Grass

Kalis Ilustrisimo ( Sword Ilustrisimo)

The sword style of Antonio 'Tatang' Ilustrisimo a famous swordsman from the Philippines.


Vince
aka Black Grass


----------



## 7starmantis

I study mostly traditional chinese weapons which include the broadsword, Gim (taiji sword), and several other traditional swords. The Horse Leg Cutter is awesome too!!

7sm


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by 7starmantis _
> *Horse Leg Cutter*



Can you post a picture?


----------



## 7starmantis

I'm not sure the actual name for it, but here is a horse chopping and the horse leg cutter.

Horse Chopping:






Horse Leg Cutter: (actually its about 3/4 this size)





7sm


----------



## arnisador

Were these, then, intended for use against the opponent's horse more than the opponent?


----------



## 7starmantis

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Were these, then, intended for use against the opponent's horse more than the opponent? *



I've been curious about that myself, the techniques and forms we learn with these weapons are most deffinatly not for a horsed rider, or horse in general. However they must have gotten the name from somewhere. Its interesting, but I honestly don't know the history behind them. I do enjoy learning them though.

7sm


----------



## Dragongup

I study Hai Dong Gumdo, Koreo Gumdo, and I.G.F. Gumdo, wich are Korean based swordsmanship. Unlike Iaido and Kendo/Kumdo, Gumdo is based on swordsmanship as it relates to the battlefield, not just one on one duels. It is injoyable, and smooths out my training in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido. It incorporates flow.


----------



## Charles Mahan

Wasn't Gumdo based on Iaido?


----------



## FastEd

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Its only a brief touching on it based on my own research.
> 
> (from August 2003 MartialTalk Magazine
> As the student progresses, the do aspects are often left behind and the jutsu becomes more pronounced. The major difference between the 2 styles is that while Iaido focuses on the mental aspects, Iaijutsu focuses on the combative techniques. Many students find iaido to be a meditative art in their search for perfection of the draw. "
> *



Sigh....You've got it all backwards.


----------



## buddah_belly

Yagyu Shinkage Ryu kenjitsu.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

kenjutsu
sobador arnis (put down the sticks, and pick up the cane knives)
kendo
Was in to wu shu broadsword for a spell, but am now to old and stiff to support the physicality of the executions.

Dr. Dave


----------



## Cobra

I didn't read all the posts, but I study fencing with the epee and the sabre. Rapier arts like fencing are one of the most effective swordfighting in my opionion.

They teach how to use the Western Longsword and Shortsword? I didn't think they taught that any more. Same with Arab sword arts with the scimiter. What sword do Koreans use?


----------



## arnisador

Search on Kumdo or Gumdo for some Korean sword info.

Here's a thread on it:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11421


----------



## swordscholar

Hello all,

I study Classical Fencing, that is, western fencing focusing on martial rather than sporting applications of fencing.
Classical Fencing includes (but is not limited to) the study of the foil, epee, sabre, in the tradition of the French and Italian schools.
There are also many other Medieval and Renaissance weapons, schools, and texts to be studied.
Very interesting. 
i am particularly interested in comparing martial traditions of the east and west. 

Charley


----------



## Kane

A few years ago I did fencing for about 1 year but I would much rather study classic fencing with the true rapier. However, there is no schools in the US it seems that teaches that stuff. 

There are no schools that even teach European Straightsword Arts  it seems which I would want to learn the most.


----------



## Firona

After reading The Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi I became interested in the sword arts so I bought myself a 'kendo stick' or more appropriately 'one of those bamboo sword thingys' and started practicing what the book taught. After awhile I started jumping around on the web looking for more information and eventually ended up teaching myself Niten Ichi-ryu.


----------



## Rob Broad

Firona said:
			
		

> After reading The Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi I became interested in the sword arts so I bought myself a 'kendo stick' or more appropriately 'one of those bamboo sword thingys' and started practicing what the book taught. After awhile I started jumping around on the web looking for more information and eventually ended up teaching myself Niten Ichi-ryu.



It is called a shinai.


----------



## loki09789

Kane said:
			
		

> A few years ago I did fencing for about 1 year but I would much rather study classic fencing with the true rapier. However, there is no schools in the US it seems that teaches that stuff.
> 
> There are no schools that even teach European Straightsword Arts it seems which I would want to learn the most.


Look for Society for Creative Anacronism (SCA) groups as a starting point. Theatrical fencing is usually taught with 'authentic' or 'non competative' handle and blunted blade designs that are close to 'true.' I would still work with a sabre mask and fencing jacket. A sabre helmet has added protection from overhead slashing cuts because of the addition of a leather piece on top...well it isn't really 'personal protection' per say. It does more to protect your partners blade from getting nicked and scarred on your metal helmet


----------



## Charles Mahan

Firona said:
			
		

> After reading The Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi I became interested in the sword arts so I bought myself a 'kendo stick' or more appropriately 'one of those bamboo sword thingys' and started practicing what the book taught. After awhile I started jumping around on the web looking for more information and eventually ended up teaching myself Niten Ichi-ryu.



I'm sure that will come as a suprise to the soke of Niten Ichi-Ryu.  Here generations of dedicated students have been spending all their lives studying  Niten Ichi-ryu and all they really had to do was read some books.  Amazing that you managed to teach yourself Niten Ichi-ryu but you still can't conjure up the name of "those bamboo sword thingies".

Hyakutake-sensei would get a real kick out of this post if he were on this board.


----------



## Blindside

> Posted by Kane: There are no schools that even teach European Straightsword Arts it seems which I would want to learn the most.



You need to do a bit of research, start here:

http://www.thehaca.com/

http://aemma.org/

http://www.swordplayalliance.com/

http://www.alliancemartialarts.com/

http://www.chicagoswordplayguild.com/

http://www.martinez-destreza.com/

That should get you started.

Lamont


----------



## Firona

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> I'm sure that will come as a suprise to the soke of Niten Ichi-Ryu. Here generations of dedicated students have been spending all their lives studying Niten Ichi-ryu and all they really had to do was read some books. Amazing that you managed to teach yourself Niten Ichi-ryu but you still can't conjure up the name of "those bamboo sword thingies".
> 
> Hyakutake-sensei would get a real kick out of this post if he were on this board.


I didn't say I was GOOD at it...lol I just know a little bit. And if you were a real martial artist you would understand that saying bamboo sword thingy is SO much cooler than saying shinai =P really who speaks japanese? hehe


----------



## Kane

Blindside said:
			
		

> You need to do a bit of research, start here:
> 
> http://www.thehaca.com/
> 
> http://aemma.org/
> 
> http://www.swordplayalliance.com/
> 
> http://www.alliancemartialarts.com/
> 
> http://www.chicagoswordplayguild.com/
> 
> http://www.martinez-destreza.com/
> 
> That should get you started.
> 
> Lamont


Thanks a lot! I'll check all of them.


----------



## Nikolas P.

Firona said:
			
		

> I didn't say I was GOOD at it...lol I just know a little bit. And if you were a real martial artist you would understand that saying bamboo sword thingy is SO much cooler than saying shinai =P really who speaks japanese? hehe



Boku chotto nihongo ga hanaseru.


----------



## kroh

Firona...

Have you actually sought out training in the Niten Ichi-Ryu?  And do you study martial arts other than sword arts?

WalT


----------



## Firona

Nikolas P. said:
			
		

> Boku chotto nihongo ga hanaseru.


 Japanese is actually a really fun language to learn, I am learning it too =D. and I am not an experienced swordsman by any means, I just got into the whole thing a few months ago. I have to appologize I realized the words 'a little' should have been in front of niten ichi'ryu hehe


----------



## Hyaku

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> I'm sure that will come as a suprise to the soke of Niten Ichi-Ryu.  Here generations of dedicated students have been spending all their lives studying  Niten Ichi-ryu and all they really had to do was read some books.  Amazing that you managed to teach yourself Niten Ichi-ryu but you still can't conjure up the name of "those bamboo sword thingies".
> 
> Hyakutake-sensei would get a real kick out of this post if he were on this board.



Hello Charles 

I am on the board :EG: 

Firona, Nan ka kimi wa mainichi kusuri wo nonde imasu ka? Nankai me Gorin no Sho wo yonde wakaru ka na? Jibun de oshieru koto wa nai yo!


----------



## splice42

Firona said:
			
		

> am not an experienced swordsman by any means, I just got into the whole thing a few months ago. I have to appologize I realized the words 'a little' should have been in front of niten ichi'ryu hehe


 Actually, how about "None at all"? You can't learn Niten Ichi Ryu from a book, even from the book of the five rings. It's just not done that way. There are people who teach the art. They may be far from you, but then this art isn't being practiced by many people. I see a whole lot of people interested in Musashi and his art, and you're maybe the fourth or fifth I've seen in the last two months claiming to practice Niten Ichi Ryu or to have recreated the art from the book of the five rings. That's a lot of misdirected effort. Yet there were relatively few attendees to the Niten seminar in Canada this past weekend. 

 I think Imai soke said it took him, what, over 40 years before understanding Gorin no Sho. He certainly didn't study alone all that time. How could you think to practice Niten Ichi Ryu by just reading a book and doing what you think you understand from it?

 Just as I'm not a pilot after reading a book on flying planes, or a doctor after reading a tome on medicine, or a Ph.D. after reading a thesis, you're not practicing Niten Ichi Ryu after reading the book of five rings. If you're serious enough, you can find someone to teach you. Until then, you're just swinging a wooden stick. Nothing wrong with that, but don't call it Niten Ichi Ryu.

 Ah, to stay on topic: I practice Muso Jikiden Ryu Iai, and I've done some Niten Ichi Ryu. All I need now is a lifetime of practice. I study some Japanese, and now that the translators at the seminar last weekend said I should handle my Japanese myself, I'll have to study hard for next year if I want to talk to Iwami sensei .


----------



## Nikolas P.

No offense intended to those who practice organized niten ichi ryuu, but wasn't the progenitor of the current lineage someone who had very little direct training under Musashi himself? I agree that you can't learn just from the Gorin no Sho, though; the book was reputedly written to help guide Musashi's students after his death, primarily.


----------



## ShadowKnight

At the moment I am only studying Koryo Gumdo, but in the future I hope to expand to other sword arts.


----------



## RanaHarmamelda

ARGH! Trying to remember the name of the Iai-do I study in jujutsu, and it keeps escaping me. Damn it. I know it's one of the recent ones, formed, I think, in this century, or close to it. Having a major brain fart as to its name, though. Ah well.

Also have read books on and played around with western non-fencing sword work. Woudl liek to find a teacher. Eventually. One day. *grin* Also, have learned a single chinese broadsword form, and a single tai chi long sword form. Which are cool. But, eh -- iai-do = my main sword style, right now.


----------



## AC_Pilot

My formal training is in Kali but I am a student of edged and medieval weapons use and theory, have a large collection or arms and I re-enact as a knight with chainmail and authentic weapons. (Not SCA) Being a JKD guy, you can't really classify what my style is, that would depend on the weapon type and situation.


----------



## kroh

RanaHarmamelda said:
			
		

> ARGH! Trying to remember the name of the Iai-do I study in jujutsu, and it keeps escaping me. Damn it. I know it's one of the recent ones, formed, I think, in this century, or close to it. Having a major brain fart as to its name, though. Ah well.
> 
> Also have read books on and played around with western non-fencing sword work. Woudl liek to find a teacher. Eventually. One day. *grin* Also, have learned a single chinese broadsword form, and a single tai chi long sword form. Which are cool. But, eh -- iai-do = my main sword style, right now.



Wouldn't be Toyama Ryu Batto Iai would it (formulated for the Japanese Army circa 1925).  Or what about Shinkendo (martial art of Toshishiro Obata Sensei) or possibly Goshindo (formulated in the late 60's i beleive)?

Those are just a couple to name a few...

AC... I keep running into you on these boards... Kool to the Kali weapons...I myself have much love for the espada y daga.

Hyaku and Charles... Could you give us some background of Niten Ichi Ryu.  From all the posts... we see that it has something to do with Musashi and from the Japanese has something to do with twin skies ( or something to that effect...you'll have to excuse me as my translation sucks...)?

It is rare to talk to exponents of koryu martial arts on most of these boards, let alone to have an experienced practioner (I am a constant lurker and reader of your posts on this and other boards Charles) *and* his instructor in the same place...

Domo arigato gosaimasu :asian: 
Regards,
Walt


----------



## Charles Mahan

Oh I'm afraid I do not have much to offer with regards to Niten Ichi Ryu.  Hyakutake-sensei is the one you want for that.   

Koryu practitioners do seem to be few and far between on Martial Talk, but are not all that rare over on http://www.e-budo.com and http://www.swordforum.com in the Japanese Sword Arts forums.


----------



## kroh

Hey Charles... 

I actually lurk on both those boards quite a bit... (although I must confess, it has been a while since i lurked over at e-budo...)

Curiously enough...They just opened a Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu iai-jutsu school about ten feet from my house ( in an aikido school) They operate out of two locations in Rhode Island ( next to my house is one of the locations...they must have sensed the phenominal ki in the air...).  The web site (http://risword.com) is down so i cannot pirate the instructors name and make myself look like I am well versed in these matters...


I had sent them an email a while ago and they said that I was welcome to come down and train any time.  The gentlemen seemed very relaxed and enthusiastic, however since they have recently changed their class times for the year, I have not had the opportunity to go and say hi.  

If i do manage to go and play I will make sure I post my training experience so that real MJER guys can make fun of me (the swordwork in the Kempo system I do now is based on Toyama Ryu Batto Iai so I am sure when I do jump on the floor... I am going to look like a pitbull in a porcelain shop).

Thanks for the info Charles...
Regards 
Walt


----------



## RanaHarmamelda

Kroh --

Toyama-ryu it is, thank-you. I could not for the life of me remember its name. Talk about embaressing. *grin*


----------



## kroh

Hey there ...

No problem...I looked up on your profile that you are doing Hontai yoshin ryu and you use to do Arnis...

I am the opposite...I am now doing Philipino kali and I use to do Shindo Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu.


Small world...Biiiiiiiiig Dojo.....

Regards,
Walt


----------



## Charles Mahan

Well in that case you may not be as out of place as you imagine.  MJER is the foundation which Toyama Ryu comes from.  And, when done well, is a very aggresive form of kenjutsu.  If I'm not mistaken the group that just started up there is likely associated with the Jikishinkai.  It will be somewhat different from what I do as that branch broke off the line which I study quite some time ago.


----------



## latchless

I study Kombatan Arnis. We train with sticks but the intent of most of the techniques are for sword work.


----------



## asangria

Pakua Jian


----------



## Tswolfman

I Study Koryo Gumdo At the Present Time However I would like to Expand my Horizons with Another More Developed Sword Art, I live In North Central Ohio Does Anyone know of any Instructors in that area.


----------



## Ojiisan

Toyama Ryu, modified Mugai Ryu and ZNBDR.


----------



## Charles Mahan

What is "modified Mugai Ryu"?


----------



## Ojiisan

Modified Mugai Ryu is that I can not do seiza waza.  So sensei has given me standing versions.


----------



## Charles Mahan

Ahh.  I suspect that the term "modified" is misapplied here.  The ryu has not beem modified.  Some of the waza have been rearranged to make them more suitable to your training predicament, but that hasn't changed the ryu.  If I do the Seiza waza of MJER standing, I'm still doing MJER.  It isn't modified MJER.  Waza are quite flexible.


----------



## Ojiisan

Domo arigato for your clarification Charles.

Ojiisan


----------



## Gumdomaster

Haidong Gumdo


----------



## Saitama Steve

Koryu iaijutsu and kenjutsu. (Araki-ryu & Sosuishi-ryu)


----------



## TimoS

Tauramuso ryu tojutsu


----------



## chris...

latchless said:
			
		

> I study Kombatan Arnis. We train with sticks but the intent of most of the techniques are for sword work.


 ditto


----------



## Shane Smith

I am competent with European Longsword, sword and shield, sword and buckler and armoured longsword.


----------



## Shane Smith

Kane said:
			
		

> A few years ago I did fencing for about 1 year but I would much rather study classic fencing with the true rapier. However, there is no schools in the US it seems that teaches that stuff.
> 
> There are no schools that even teach European Straightsword Arts it seems which I would want to learn the most.


We do.Have a look around at www.thearma.org


----------



## Shane Smith

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Look for Society for Creative Anacronism (SCA) groups as a starting point. Theatrical fencing is usually taught with 'authentic' or 'non competative' handle and blunted blade designs that are close to 'true.' I would still work with a sabre mask and fencing jacket. A sabre helmet has added protection from overhead slashing cuts because of the addition of a leather piece on top...well it isn't really 'personal protection' per say. It does more to protect your partners blade from getting nicked and scarred on your metal helmet


I must disagree. SCA role-play is NOT a martial art based on the true fighting methods of medieval and Renaissance Europe. It may be fun, but it isn't historically accurate nor is it martial in the practical or absolute sense.


----------



## Matt Anderson

Shane Smith said:
			
		

> I must disagree. SCA role-play is NOT a martial art based on the true fighting methods of medieval and Renaissance Europe. It may be fun, but it isn't historically accurate nor is it martial in the practical or absolute sense.


Hi Shane!

Yes, I must agree, time spent doing SCA "fighting" will do little to advance knowledge or skill in the real martial arts of medieval and Renaissance Europe. What they do is a game, with a very restrictive rule set and "armour" requirements. I'm sure it's a really fun game, and there are those who are very skilled at it and have taken it to a very competitive level. It is not however, a martial art IMO.

This is something that those involved in historical European fencing really have to be honest and introspective about. Are you practicing a martial art or playing a game? Here's a pretty good article on the subject in general:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/MartialArtorCombatSport.htm


----------



## Keith Jennings

Shane Smith said:
			
		

> I must disagree. SCA role-play is NOT a martial art based on the true fighting methods of medieval and Renaissance Europe. It may be fun, but it isn't historically accurate nor is it martial in the practical or absolute sense.


I agree, the SCA is a martial sport. This not being insulting, asthere are many SCA members who are skilled at handling weapons, and many of them are also practicing martial artists. Also, many of the top researchers in the Western Martial Arts community come from an SCA background. Still, it doesnt qualify the SCA as a martial art.

One troubling trend Ive noticed is at a number of WMA classes, that many SCAdians dont understand how to drill properly. Many times, they are too competitive to allow someone else to "win" a drill, and start fighting back or going outside of the scope of what they are supposed to be practicing. This can potentially lead to injury, and in fact someone very close to me was nearly killed in an accident involving an SCA member who wanted to "beat" his training partner while drilling. So, this has become a very big pet peeve of mine, and whether Im teaching or drilling, it really enrages me when I see this kind of behavior from students, SCA or otherwise.


----------



## pgsmith

To answer the original question, I practice Shin Shin Sekiguchi ryu battojutsu and Kobu Shin ryu battojutsu with a little Toyama ryu under the US Battodo Federation thrown in.

Keith wrote ...





> One troubling trend Ive noticed is at a number of WMA classes, that many SCAdians dont understand how to drill properly. Many times, they are too competitive to allow someone else to "win" a drill, and start fighting back or going outside of the scope of what they are supposed to be practicing. This can potentially lead to injury, and in fact someone very close to me was nearly killed in an accident involving an SCA member who wanted to "beat" his training partner while drilling. So, this has become a very big pet peeve of mine, and whether Im teaching or drilling, it really enrages me when I see this kind of behavior from students, SCA or otherwise.


 That behaviour is not restricted to WMA. I have had several people like that come through the dojo. They don't understand the concept of training, and want to win. The only way to cure that is to have them practice with the instructor personally. Then, when they try and break out of the prescribed drill, you bean them one where you know it won't do any permanent injury and tell them to stick to the drill. I've found that it only takes two or three good bruises before they either stick to the drill, or quit the class. Either way, the problem is solved.


----------



## Keith Jennings

pgsmith said:
			
		

> Keith wrote ... That behaviour is not restricted to WMA. I have had several people like that come through the dojo. They don't understand the concept of training, and want to win. The only way to cure that is to have them practice with the instructor personally. Then, when they try and break out of the prescribed drill, you bean them one where you know it won't do any permanent injury and tell them to stick to the drill. I've found that it only takes two or three good bruises before they either stick to the drill, or quit the class. Either way, the problem is solved.


Very true, I have seen this sort of behavior in many martial art classes, not just WMA. As the saying goes: no one knows more about Karate than a green belt; just ask one :ultracool 

If they arent being a jerk about it, then I prefer to give them one chance, but then their gone. IMO, there is absolutely no excuse for injuring your training partner. Bruises are to be expected, but not injuries. Of course, it bother me even more when an instructor injures his students, but thats another story.


----------



## pgsmith

> Of course, it bother me even more when an instructor injures his students, but thats another story.


  I've left bruises on students on several occasions. They can be quite instructive.   I've never actually injured anyone though, either accidentally or on purpose.


----------



## Flying Crane

I practice Chinese sword, both Jian and Dao (straight sword, and broadsword), both within the context of external arts, and Tai Chi Chuan.

michael


----------



## Cyber Ninja

Ninja Biken...I am interested in several other styles but have no time at the moment. I would love to experience Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, as well as Fencing. If there is anyone out there who currently trains in any of the above mentioned styles, I would love to hear from you.


----------



## Solidman82

I do a freestyle sword system. It's based on a blend of medieval swordfighting, Kumdo, Iaido, and traditional Kendo modernized for current situations (baseball bats and clubs). Very weird training but very interesting too.


----------



## Southwell

Solidman 82,your freestyle sword system does sound interesting. Where in Canada do you train ?


----------



## Solidman82

Prince George B.C., But I will soon be moving to Vancouver where my freestyle Instructor resides.  We just need to find a place to train.


----------



## mantis

Arabian dagger 
it's half martial art half dancing!
they do performances in wedding parties LOL
now I may start studying Tai Chi sword as a part of my kung fu training


----------



## Walter Wong

I train Chinese and Japanese swordsmanship.

In my Kung Fu school, you learn weapons by default to accompany the barehand combat.  So for blade training at my Kung Fu school it's Jian/straight sword and Broadsword/saber.

It's a common misconception to people outside of Chinese Martial Arts to think Tai Chi sword and Shaolin sword is different when it's actually the same straight double edged sword used by both Shaolin and Tai Chi styles.  Broadsword/saber is also used by both Shaolin and Tai Chi.  The usage of either Jian/straight sword pretty much the same between Shaolin and Tai Chi and same with Broadsword/saber.  There are only so many ways you can fight with the same kind of sword or blade.

For Japanese swordsmanship, I'm training Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido and just recently started Nami Ryu which itself contains it's Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu and Aikijujutsu.  Doing Nami Ryu under different instruction from the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu.


----------



## Captain Harlock

So many different styles. What wonderous diversity we have here. I have enjoyed rereading this old thread of mine and seeing so many new faces with so many new ideas for me to learn about.
:asian:


----------



## samurai69

study iado now, through my aikido school, used to study modern fencing, foil epee and saber, also in wing chun did double butterfly knifes,


----------



## tellner

Indonesian and Filipino


----------



## Henderson

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> You could call the main line of MJER Iaijutsu if you want, but you'd be technically wrong. The organization uses Iaido and Iai-heiho.


 
Masayuki Shimbukuro Hanshi refers to his style as Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu (not Iaido).  I would think he would know, considering he has been named the inheritor-designate to Miura Hanshi.

Respects,

Frank


----------



## Charles Mahan

By mainline, I was referring to the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Seitokai led by Ikeda Takashi-soke, which does use Iaido.  Well sometimes it does, when it isn't using Iai-heiho.

I stopped using the term main line to indicate the ZNIR/Seitokai line some time ago.  While the ZNIR/Seitokai line is the single largest of the MJER branches by a substantial margin, the term main line is unnecessarily confusing.  The post you have responded to is more than 2 years old.


----------



## Henderson

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> The post you have responded to is more than 2 years old.


 
:asian:


----------



## darkell

Kalis Ilustrisimo


----------



## kroh

darkell said:
			
		

> Kalis Ilustrisimo


 
Nice...have you checked out www.fmatalk.com yet?  Good stuff here and there.  What kind of sword do you use when practicing.  One of the guys I have had a few seminars with (Kevin Seaman) pulled out a giant Bolo style blade (from http://trainingblades.com I think) that he uses in his practice. Fun stuff.

Regards, 
Walt


----------



## Xue Sheng

I study Chinese sword, Tai Chi straight sword and broadsword.

And many moons ago I did a little kendo.


----------



## TheBattousai

I do training in all sword arts, but the eastern sword arts are my favorites.


----------



## Charles Mahan

Really.  Man you get around.   How many hundreds of styles you reckon you're proficient in?


----------



## kroh

Aw man...here we go again....


----------



## mtabone

Charles Mahan 	:



> Really.  Man you get around.   How many hundreds of styles you reckon you're proficient in?



kroh:


> Aw man...here we go again....



LOL

Michael Tabone


----------



## TimoS

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> Really.  Man you get around.   How many hundreds of styles you reckon you're proficient in?



This thread just became much more interesting :supcool:


----------



## TheBattousai

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> Really. Man you get around. How many hundreds of styles you reckon you're proficient in?


 
Are you refering to me?


----------



## TimoS

TheBattousai said:
			
		

> Are you refering to me?



I imagine he does, after all, you stated that



			
				TheBattousai said:
			
		

> I do training in all sword arts, but the eastern sword arts are my favorites.



There being (at least) dozens of japanese sword arts alone, it seems like a fair, if "a bit" sarcastic, question


----------



## TheBattousai

I don't really mean the arts themselves as much as I mean the weapons and princibles. I train (as far as arts go) in kobujutsu, so its good to use a variaty of weapons for training, as well as a variaty of swords; so I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I do practice also the different types of sword uses too (i.e. Katana - Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu, Battojutsu, etc.). I try to have a good grasp on all weapons and princibles, because its not the you may have the weapon in your possesion at time in which you need to defend yourslef, but the lessons you learned from training with them is what is important......in my opinion anyway. Sorry again for the misunderstanding. (I need to pay more attention to things in writing)


----------



## darkell

kroh said:
			
		

> Nice...have you checked out www.fmatalk.com yet?  Good stuff here and there.  What kind of sword do you use when practicing.  One of the guys I have had a few seminars with (Kevin Seaman) pulled out a giant Bolo style blade (from http://trainingblades.com I think) that he uses in his practice. Fun stuff.
> 
> Regards,
> Walt



At the moment I just use sitcks, practice knives and a practice wooden sword. But I've only been doing kalis for less than 6 months now. As we get more advanced we start to use a blunt, straight, single edged, practice blade about 30 inches long.

Antonio Ilustrisimo (the founder) prefered the Barong which is a type of Bolo (I think). Not particularly large, about 30 inches again and shaped kinda like a machette. A picture is pretty easy to find if you google "barong bolo". My intrustor also practices with the barong but I've never actually seen him do it.


----------



## Charles Mahan

Ok ok.  I'll apologize.  I was being unabashedly sarcastic.   Was feeling a bit curmudgeonly yesterday.  It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses that login id.  It comes with too much baggage.


----------



## 138

MJER here....
Henderson, do you study with Long Sensei? I see you are in his neck of the woods


----------



## TimoS

If I had the time, I would probably start training in MJER too. It would be so easy to start, since my sensei is teaching that also. Oh well, maybe later


----------



## Carol

Iaido, some Gatka but I haven't trained very much


----------



## Charles Mahan

Lady Kaur,   

Where are you studying Iaido in Massachusettes?  I know a couple of instructors up there.  Just curious.


----------



## bushidomartialarts

i didnt' even know there were arabian sword arts.  could somebody link me to some examples?  scimitars feel good in the hand.


----------



## Gemini

Okay. Since I'm sure everyone's been holding their breath, waiting for my reply, it's...it's.... Oh my, what's it called again?


----------



## Henderson

138 said:
			
		

> MJER here....
> Henderson, do you study with Long Sensei? I see you are in his neck of the woods


 
138, 

Soory it too so long to reply.  I seem to have forgotten about this thread.  Long Sensei is my teacher's teacher.  But I have trained withhim on multiple occasions.


----------



## lhommedieu

I study San Miguel Eskrima - primarily an espada y daga art.  Wooden (rattan) weapons are used for training, although lately I've been using a pinute y daga from C.A.S. Iberia for solo training and a Hanwei rapier and dagger for partner work.  

I've also played a little with Chinese weapons:  Xing Yi Quan dao and jian for the most part.

One of my teachers also uses a schlager to teach certain points; this is similar to the rapier and dagger training that I do.

Best,

Steve Lamade


----------



## Wing Chun Dummy

i haven't started properly studying yet, but in due time it will be the bart cham dao (broad swords / butterfly knives) of wing chun kung fu. i think they've gotta be some of the most common, due to the popularity of wing chun, surely


----------



## kamishinkan

I train in Kuniba Ha Mugai Ryu (AKA Kuniba Ryu Iaido).


----------



## Langenschwert

I train in three sword arts:  German Longsword, Italian Rapier, and German Sword & Buckler.  Longsword is my main art.  I hope to add Messer fighting to my repertoire someday.

Best regards,

-Mark


----------



## Decker

I voted "Other".

I don't exactly do a "sword art", but something close. It's called Sports Chanbara. As you can see, it's more of a sport. We learn basic sword strikes - men, kote, do, ashi and tsuki (head, wrist, body, foot and thrust), much of the rest is up to you. You can do the "sports" style, where there's a lot of jumping around - a hit anywhere means you're out - or you can do more "traditional" styles, like kenjutsu, or whatever sword art you happen to be learning.

Our focus is more on safe but full-speed, full-impact sparring using padded weaponry. Safety gear like helmets is of course provided, but injury rates are always as good as zero.

What do you think?


----------



## arnisador

Decker said:


> II don't exactly do a "sword art", but something close. It's called Sports Chanbara.



Ah, that's been discussed here before! Looks like fun.


----------



## Insley Stiles

Very long thread, lotsa interesting stuff. I study Itto Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu (that's a mouthful eh). Our school evolved from a branching off that is more combat oriented.

Regards,
Ins


----------



## qi-tah

I study Deer Hook Knife (some ppl call it them swords... weird looking swords, but still) in Ba gua and have done a bit of bokken stuff in Takemusu Aikido. I also started doing Taiji 32 sword (jian), but had to stop half way through 'cause i started at another school. I'd really like to get back to that someday.


----------



## MBuzzy

On Friday I will start training in Haidong Gumdo


----------



## MingTheMerciless

Doing FMA and a little bit of HEMMA ( busy with MMA ) .

I am a little confuse though , why put western and european seperately ? aren't they kinda the same thing ? Maybe you should put Medieval and Re(spelling .. )


----------



## Boomer

I've studied Omori ryu iaido, and Shinkage ryu kenjutsu.

I've also gained experience with parang (machete) in my mande muda silat training.


I gotta say, I'm not such a big fan of swords as I used to be.  I guess I just lost some interest on the way and got busy with other studies.  I just feel like I won't really use swordsmanship in the span of my life. It's cool to play around with though, and some things can translate into other movements in other weapons and empty hand.


----------



## MingTheMerciless

MingTheMerciless said:


> Re(spelling .. )



That will be Renaissance


----------



## SeanKerby

Nami Ryu Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu.


----------



## Mr. E

Insley Stiles said:


> Very long thread, lotsa interesting stuff. I study Itto Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu (that's a mouthful eh). Our school evolved from a branching off that is more combat oriented.



I am sorry to say this, but it looks like you have been conned. Please read the following.

http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9804&L=iaido-l&D=0&P=3572

http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9903&L=iaido-l&P=R11137

I realize this may be hard to take. But I think you owe it to yourself to examine the truth. Do a search and see if anyone in Japan knows about your art at all. If you can't find a mention in Japan or the highest ranking person in your art can't prove his claims, then it was created by someone outside of Japan and is not as it presents itself.

I really do feel bad about this. But until you can somehow prove that your art existed at some point in Japan, maybe it would be best if you declined from posting stuff about _Koryu kenjutsu._


----------



## kidswarrior

Kung Fu San Soo broadsword.


----------



## ScottUK

Mr. E said:


> I am sorry to say this, but it looks like you have been conned.


Ouch.

Ah well, such is life.

Well spotted there, Mr E.


----------



## kaustabh

Mainly Yang Tai Chi Jian and Shaolin Jian. Any Jian art I am there for it. Do practice some Chinese Broadsword and Indian Kripan/Talwar too.


----------



## ToShinDoKa

Yudansha status in Eishin ryu Iaijutsu, baby!  From Shinobu to Sanpo Giri, I know it, and love it!

Also working on Kukishinden ryu Kenjutsu w/ the tachi-blade.


----------



## Sukerkin

Sanpo Giri?  That's seitei gata isn't it?  

What school do you study at, *Tosh*?  I'm assuming it's not a dedicated MJER dojo as we don't generally practise seitei gata.  As I'm sure you know, the reason for that being that it is an amalgamation-by-commitee of styles and thus discards those things that make the art distinctive (which is why it is often utilised as a 'companion' art to kendo).  

Would my guess be right that you've learned your swordwork as an adjunct to one of your other arts?  If that's so, I'd heartily recommend that if you have a love of the sword arts you seek out a MJER/MSER or whatever dojo that's properly affiliated and train there.  The difference is very marked.


----------



## Saitama Steve

Insley Stiles said:


> Very long thread, lotsa interesting stuff. I study Itto Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu (that's a mouthful eh). Our school evolved from a branching off that is more combat oriented.
> 
> Regards,
> Ins


 
Ah, Mr.Lovret's bunch. 

Well spotted Mr.E


----------



## ToShinDoKa

Sukerkin said:


> Sanpo Giri?  That's seitei gata isn't it?
> 
> What school do you study at, *Tosh*?  I'm assuming it's not a dedicated MJER dojo as we don't generally practise seitei gata.  As I'm sure you know, the reason for that being that it is an amalgamation-by-commitee of styles and thus discards those things that make the art distinctive (which is why it is often utilised as a 'companion' art to kendo).
> 
> Would my guess be right that you've learned your swordwork as an adjunct to one of your other arts?  If that's so, I'd heartily recommend that if you have a love of the sword arts you seek out a MJER/MSER or whatever dojo that's properly affiliated and train there.  The difference is very marked.



By MJER you mean Muso Jikiden Eishin ryu, correct?  The same 'unbroken lineage' style famed Master Shimabukuro studies?  You are correct, sir.  Our Shotokan organization, like many kendo clubs and so on, studied the Seitei kata, as well as some others (only for the sake of variation) from MJER.  I specifically loved them because of their simplicity and yet deadly effectiveness (at least from the looks and theory).  Yes, sanpo giri, shinobu, imotagoi (think I spelled that wrong) and it's two or three henka, and so on.  I was told our Ukenagashi no kata is different from MJER, and of course, we respect MJER as the main source of this art.

I mostly studied it for the principles, HEAVILY samurai in nature, I felt.  Lo' and behold, I'd eventually start studying an art with more of a ninja mindset later on...LoL.


----------



## Insley Stiles

Mr. E said:


> I am sorry to say this, but it looks like you have been conned. Please read the following.
> 
> http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9804&L=iaido-l&D=0&P=3572
> 
> http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9903&L=iaido-l&P=R11137
> 
> I realize this may be hard to take. But I think you owe it to yourself to examine the truth. Do a search and see if anyone in Japan knows about your art at all. If you can't find a mention in Japan or the highest ranking person in your art can't prove his claims, then it was created by someone outside of Japan and is not as it presents itself.
> 
> I really do feel bad about this. But until you can somehow prove that your art existed at some point in Japan, maybe it would be best if you declined from posting stuff about _Koryu kenjutsu._


 

Mr. E-

I recently met Phil Relnick and spoke with him at length about this issue of names. While I am somewhat despondent about our apparent lack of roots, I am confident that what I have been studying for the last 18 years has merit. I am told that somewhere along the way our style was changed to reflect a more combat oriented format. I was not there and cannot prove this beyond what I have been told. I am also glad to note that this Lovret person never entered into the picture as far as I can find out. 

While what we do may not be Tenshinsho-Den Katori Shinto Ryu as I have seen it demonstrated, I believe, after 33 years in martial arts, that what we practice is practical as well as enjoyable and beneficial. I will continue to train in and teach our style of kenjutsu as long as I enjoy and am enriched by what we are doing.

I will also continue to search for our roots. I began my study of martial arts in Uechi Ryu Karate-Do, a very traditional Okinawan style and I know my roots in this back to the founder and beyond. I very much value origins but, regardless of the name, I cannot refute what we do. Opinions vary. During a trip to Japan a few years ago I was told by an 8th dan in kendo that Kenjutsu does not exist in Japan any more. Who'd a thunk it!

I value your opinions so please keep them coming.

Regards,

Ins


----------



## Mr. E

Insley Stiles said:


> I am told that somewhere along the way our style was changed to reflect a more combat oriented format.



Take a second to think about just how strange that sounds.

Are you saying that someone took a _koryu kenjutsu_ style like the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu or one of the Itto ryu factions in Japan that was founded by men who _killed_ people with swords and used by others to _kill_ trained swordsmen and then made it more combat oriented _without getting into real combat with a sword themselves?_

Or are you saying that someone actually did get into sword combat and that is where these changes come from?

It is like when I asked about Phil Elmore's combat experience over his book on the sword. Nothing other than a life and death encounter has the  same feel as the real thing. You _can't_ know with any great certainty that what you do will work when parts of your brain take over from your normal mind and massive amounts of chemicals dump into your system.

So how would you even know that what you do has merit- unless you have had to face someone with your sword?

If by having merit you mean that you have fun with it, ok. There are people that play Live Action Role Playing games that also can say the same thing.

But if you are going to talk about swordsmanship _as if_ what you do is Japanese related- you had best have a link to Japan. And if you want to talk about what you do _as if_ it was the same as an art bathed in blood, you had best be sure that this is the case.

If you just want to have fun, then admit it and know your limitations.


----------



## Charles Mahan

Insley Stiles said:


> I am told that somewhere along the way our style was changed to reflect a more combat oriented format.


 
See it's not so much the questionable lineage that really rubs people the wrong way.  The lineage issue is just questionable.  It's the holier than thou attitude implicit in the above assertion that irritates.  Now I'm not gonna say that it's the case here as I don't know the details of this particular school very well, but it's typical of the type of propaganda-like marketing spiel common amoung many small McDojo type places where the instructor learned a little bit from one school or other, broke with the style to open their own place and then used that type of statement to justify their actions.  It gets old.


----------



## karate-dragon

Kendo - and it's the best workout ever. Also think it has transitioned into my regular sparring for speed and subtle movement as well as kata practice with posture and poise.


----------



## Koryu Rich

Seitei iaido and Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, currently working on Seitie as I'm a n00b I've only done a very little bit of MJER.

Also Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

I'v found they have helped on multiple levels with my Bujinkan Taijutsu  .


----------



## Sukerkin

Hi *Spooky* :tup:.  Nice to see another valued member of MAP putting a few footsteps in other sands, so to speak .  MT's a bit different than the Planet but I think you'll like it here.


----------



## Koryu Rich

Cheers!

I thought I'd start spending more time over here, less sharks in the water and all that.

Plus you guys get cool smilies   :jediduel:


----------



## ToShinDoKa

Spookyfbi posted:

"I thought I'd start spending more time over here, less sharks in the water and all that."

Ain't that the truth!  :angel:


----------



## okashiibudo

I study MSR, and also kendo.

The MSR (Muso Shinden Ryu) is something that I wanted to set aside for a time, while I focused on my aikido. Once I felt I had a hand on that, I got back into iaido. So my Omori Ryu kata are suffering. If you want a truly humbling experience, that's what I recommend.

As for kendo, I do that in a more informal environment. But it's still a fun workout.


----------



## Zero

Now iaido, but before the katana it was the foil through high school.  Really enjoyed the western/european fencing style for its incredible point accuracey coupled with its need for speed and agility along such a linear attack line.


----------



## Kwanjang

Shim Su Do...


----------



## Nolo_Ferratus

I prefer to think of sword technique as a martial skill as opposed to an art. The word art implies that a great deal of creative self expression takes place.

 Some people make up their own combinations of movements but the focus is not so much on creativity as in proper execution of a learned technique.

I have taken what was called "martial arts" classes before and I'm sorry but there was no focus whatsoever on encouraging people to voice opinions or do their own thing. Instead people were expected to all act and do the same thing as if they were all the same person.

Also I'm not sure that there is much point in making a big distinction between sword skills and for example skills in fighting with clubs or sticks since much of the technique would be nearly the same.


----------



## hpulley

I don't really think the 'arts' in martial arts means self expression like it does in interpretive dance, painting, scultping etc. though I could be wrong.  I think these are partly problems with the translations of jutsu and do though most people I think understand that "the art of war" is not about self expression.

I agree completely with your statement about sticks and swords though.  My dojo teaches iaido and kendo as part of their weapons class which starts with some kali escrima sticks, okinawan kobudo before moving into the jo where jodo maps really nicely into bokken/shinai and iaito for iaido, kendo, kenjutsu and so on.  We also other weapons.  Each weapon has its own little specialties but I believe the core is very similar and is also similar to empty handed arts with all the generic learning of how to use your body and momentum, angles, stances, power transfer and so on.


----------



## Aikicomp

Just found this thread while searching for Omori Ryu.

I studied Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido Under the North American San Shin Kai which was organized by Mitsuzuka,Takeshi Sensei and is presently headed by Roger Wehrhahn Shihan.

For Shoden level of MSR I was taught four styles (Omori Ryu, Seitei Gata, Shindo Munen Ryu and Keishi Ryu) of Iai and the reason for that was I did not know what style I would have to show for my Shodan test. Thank goodness he tested me on Omori Ryu (my favorite of the four, BTW)

After studying MSR for 3 yrs which involved classes, seminars and camps (two camps I had the honor of studying with Mitsuzuka Sensei himself and got to take a picture with him) my instructor let me test for the Shoden Level and I received my Shodan in MSR from Wehrhahn Shihan. Since then I could not formally keep up my studies in MSR, but, continue to practice what I have learned and enjoy it immensely.

Michael


----------



## blindsage

I will be starting Bagua Jian (double edge straight sword) soon, and eventually moving onto the Bagua Dao (chinese broadsword), Da Dao (large broadsword), and the Deerhorn Knives.


----------



## futabachan

Naginata: atarashii and Tendo-ryu
Iaido: ZNKR seitei gata and Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu
Kendo


----------



## Ken Morgan

futabachan said:


> Naginata: atarashii and Tendo-ryu
> Iaido: ZNKR seitei gata and Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu
> Kendo


 
JCCC? Ohmi sensei?


----------



## Tensei85

I Studied Bagua Long Dao, Bagua Jin Dao, Shaolin Dao (not shaolin do), Iaido, and some Tong Long Dao forms. Oh, and of course the Wing Chun Baat Jaam Dao might as well count those. And the Gim or Jian


----------



## jonpalombi

*Greetings All,*

I first began to formally study swordsmanship under the guidance of my tae kwon do teacher, Master Il Hoi Kim. While I had been fascinated by the classic stories (in literature and movies) of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, Ivanhoe, The Three Musketeers, Zorro, as well as The Lord of the Rings, Conan the Barbarian and John Carter on Mars... I had no access to instruction and had yet to attend classes in any school. 

When I was 17 years old, a TV station out of Philadelphia ran an all-night Samurai Movie Fest. The films were: *Yojimbo*, *Sanjuro* and *Seven* *Samurai*. I was still transfixed at 6:30 AM, the next morning, when my parents woke up, as Seven Samurai was finishing up. I hadn't slept a wink!  This experience was to forever change something deep within my soul.  Needless to say, this ignited a fire that was to burn brighter and still brighter, even to this day (nearly 34 years later). 

About this time, Master Kim introduced the practice of bong (staff) to students ranked in blue belt and above. I loved it! The practice of gum (sword) was reserved for black belts only. We learned a basic foundation of techniques, using mok-gum (wooden sword). After about a year I was off to college.

Since those days, I have delved into taijiquan, Olympic-style fencing, iaido, modern Korean gumdo, test cutting and a couple wushu sword forms. Like many contemporary sword enthusiasts, I have done considerable "home-study" through books and videos. I also have an avid interest in Medieval and Renaissance swordsmanship methodologies.

For the last 5 1/2 years I have studied *Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan* swordsmanship under Sifu Scott M. Rodell. This is now my primary sword art and my deepest passion. While I prefer the jian (straight sword), I respect the powerful attack of the dao (saber), as well. Our study-group is a unique bunch of folks, who have had a wide variety of experience with a variety sf schools of swordsmanship and it shows in our free-play matches. These are two blogs I have kept, following our New England Chinese Swordsmanship practice. Our club's blog: http://nebgrtc.blogspot.com/ and the purely pictorial: http://cssphotos.blogspot.com/

*Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi*


----------



## Langenschwert

jonpalombi said:


> For the last 5 1/2 years I have studied *Yangjia Michuan Taijiquan* swordsmanship under Sifu Scott M. Rodell.


 
Mr. Rodell is very well regarded. You are fortunate to have such a good practicioner as your teacher. 

Best regards,

-Mark


----------



## jonpalombi

Langenschwert said:


> Mr. Rodell is very well regarded. You are fortunate to have such a good practitioner as your teacher.
> 
> Best regards, -Mark


 
*Thank you Sir,*

Yes, I have been fortunate to have had Scott as my Chinese antiquities dealer, my friend and my Sifu (I actually knew Teacher Rodell for 10 years, before becoming a formal student). His unswerving adherence to traditional authenticity, keeps our system grounded and most genuine. That being said, we are collectively working to re-vitalize the practice of Chinese swordsmanship, with ever broadening horizons. Certainly, the time is ripe for The Traditional Chinese Sword League and it's tournament events. It is high time for Chinese sword-fighting to have an established venue for sincere practitioners.

I am also very fortunate to be a part of our New England Area Chinese Swordsmanship seminar study-group. We have several long-time Taijiquan stylists (both Yang and Chen), some with experience in Baguaquan and Xingyiquan, an Olympic trained epee fencer/ former taijiquan student of Yang Jwing Ming, an Italian Rapier & German Long-sword instructor/ Kenjutsu & Aikido stylist and some of his top students and also... a few Budo students crossing-over from our host dojo, The Brattleboro School of Budo. In this regard, our school is unique. This variety of mixed backgrounds can generate wonderful opportunities for cross-training and a broader scope of possibilities, all the while, training ourselves in the Yangjia Michuan system. Not only are these folks great martial artist & swordsmen, they are just plain great people. It continues to be an honor to practice and learn with them.

*Ciao, Jon*


----------

