# Training Methods Old School vs. New School



## kungfukid94

I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.


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## Steve

I'm not tracking what you're trying to say.


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## Buka

Old School vs. New School. Are those our only choices?


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## Headhunter

Sorry I have no idea what you're on about....all this new school and old school stuff is bs. The majority of styles train exactly the same way today as they did back then, maybe now people understand more about nutrition and strength and how the muscles work and respond to training but mostly it's all the same. All this stuff that the older generation are tougher than people today is nonsense and frankly ego from the older generation believing people these aren't as good as they were. Everyone's got access to the same training. Trust me I've been a student since the old days and I am still a student now and the martial artists are just as tough and skilled as they ever were.


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## jobo

kungfukid94 said:


> I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.


if I'm reading you right, i agree that tma are in many cases stuck in a time warp using 100 year old training methods ignore the massive leaps in sports,science that have happend in this time.
the reason? We'll they class themselves as traditional and therefore only use tradition methods


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## hoshin1600

Headhunter said:


> All this stuff that the older generation are tougher than people today is nonsense





Headhunter said:


> I've been a student since the old days



i do not know exactly what he is refering to.  he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.

you say you have been studying since the "old" days.   that is kind of arbitrary.  what is the old days exactly?  where you studying in the 1890's ?  the 1950's?  60's , 70's   ???

at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
i also do think the prior generations were tougher.  not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..


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## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> i do not know exactly what he is refering to.  he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.
> 
> you say you have been studying since the "old" days.   that is kind of arbitrary.  what is the old days exactly?  where you studying in the 1890's ?  the 1950's?  60's , 70's   ???
> 
> at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
> i also do think the prior generations were tougher.  not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..


yes in most other sports the instant generation are constantly raising the standard of performance in their sport

its the whole hardship thing i don't get, in what way do you think that poverty poor housing,poor,diet and being worked half to death makes people better at competative sport?

for a long time most sports were the preserve of gentlemen who could afford to rest recover and feed themselves properly


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## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> yes in most other sports the instant generation are constantly raising the standard of performance in their sport
> 
> its the whole hardship thing i don't get, in what way do you think that poverty poor housing,poor,diet and being worked half to death makes people better at competative sport?
> 
> for a long time most sports were the preserve of gentlemen who could afford to rest recover and feed themselves properly


who said anything about sport?


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## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> who said anything about sport?


arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion


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## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion


Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented.  But by definition it is not a sport.  You do not HAVE to compete to participate.  Ranks  are not based on how many wins you have.  There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
No its not a sport.  I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka  in their 70's,  80's and 90's...they don't compete either.


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## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> arnt we talking about karate? You mentioned karate in your post that i took issue with, karate is a sport by any reasonable defintion. Or were they just throw away remarks that had nothing at all to do with the discussion



is weight lifting a sport?
no it is not a sport.  it is an activity that produces a desired outcome.  now some people MAY like to wieght lift in a competitive manner but that doesnt make it a sport.

if you can tell me that weight lifting is nothing more than a sport,  then i will concede the argument to you.


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## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented.  But by definition it is not a sport.  You do not HAVE to compete to participate.  Ranks  are not based on how many wins you have.  There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
> No its not a sport.  I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka  in their 70's,  80's and 90's...they don't compete either.


a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty. 
don't feel bad, it can be,confusing


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## Headhunter

hoshin1600 said:


> i do not know exactly what he is refering to.  he could be talking about his specific art and that art might have made a lot of changes over the last few years.. we dont know.
> 
> you say you have been studying since the "old" days.   that is kind of arbitrary.  what is the old days exactly?  where you studying in the 1890's ?  the 1950's?  60's , 70's   ???
> 
> at least with karate, i can say that training has changed a lot over the years. i do think we are overall better now then ever before, but there is something to be said about the "instant gratification" generation today.
> i also do think the prior generations were tougher.  not better but more acclimated to hardship. there can be no doubt that a farm boy working 365 days a year 14 hours a day doing farm work is a bit more hardy then someone sitting behind a desk for 10 hours a day looking at a computer screen typing his opinion on an MT web sight..


Why would working on a farm make you tough? All it means is you can lift some hay and milk some cows doesn't mean you can fight


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## hoshin1600

Headhunter said:


> Why would working on a farm make you tough? All it means is you can lift some hay and milk some cows doesn't mean you can fight


i didnt say farming makes you able to fight. i said growing up in that kind of environment makes you acclimated to hardship.


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## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
> what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty.



as per google
sport
spôrt/
_noun_

*1*.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

see,,, part of the definition is competition.  



jobo said:


> don't feel bad, it can be,confusing


its ok i can be sympathetic to your lack of higher cognitive ability.


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## Danny T

jobo said:


> a sport us an athletic activity done for enjoyment or health.
> what your thinking of is what we call competative sport, . That's were you compete in an athletic activerty.
> don't feel bad, it can be,confusing


Yep can be confusing.
Depending upon which dictionary ones culture uses it can be different. 
I have a Webster's that defines Sport (noun) as: A competitive physical activity engaged in for pleasure.
Oxford's definition is: An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team is in competition against another or others for entertainment.
Cambridge: a competition done for enjoyment or as a job, that takes physical effort and skill and is played or done following particular or specific rules.
Collins definition: competitive leisure activities which need physical effort and skill.
These all refer to sport being a competition.


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## jobo

Danny T said:


> Yep can be confusing.
> Depending upon which dictionary ones culture uses it can be different.
> I have a Webster's that defines Sport (noun) as: A competitive physical activity engaged in for pleasure.
> Oxford's definition is: An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team is in competition against another or others for entertainment.
> Cambridge: a competition done for enjoyment or as a job, that takes physical effort and skill and is played or done following particular or specific rules.
> Collins definition: competitive leisure activities which need physical effort and skill.
> These all refer to sport being a competition.


you've selectively edited the Cambridge one, it actual says a game competion OR ACTIVITY


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## hoshin1600

Other activities that are not sports....
Yoga
Bicycling
Swimming
Running.
In order for an activity to be a sport it has to be placed within a sport framework that defines rules and a scoring system.

So Michael Phelps does do sport swimming, if he was on a cruise and the ship went down and he had to swim to shore, he would not be participating in a sport. Swimming is a way to prevent drowning.
And monkeys, dogs, cats, bison, elephants all can swim. By your definition this is a scientific revolution that all species engage in sports.  I wonder how my fish scores itself.
Millions of people in China on bicycles are not engaged in a sport, they are just trying to get to work.
Again an activity can be a sport if placed within a sport framework but by itself it is not a sport.


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## kungfukid94

Steve said:


> I'm not tracking what you're trying to say.


I apologize im new to this forum  so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet  we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.


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## hoshin1600

kungfukid94 said:


> I apologize im new to this forum  so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet  we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.


You must be looking at a very small sample. I don't see that at all. What martial arts are you looking at?


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## Danny T

jobo said:


> you've selectively edited the Cambridge one, it actual says a game competion OR ACTIVITY


No I wrote what is in my wife's dictionary...She uses Cambridge, I tend to use Webster.


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## Gerry Seymour

kungfukid94 said:


> I apologize im new to this forum  so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet  we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.


I suppose that depends upon what art you're looking at, and what school. Many traditional arts have kata (forms) that are practiced without a partner. Those can look like dance if you don't know their purpose - more so in some arts than in others. And some arts focus on smooth movement, which can make their training look more dance-like. None of this is a problem, so long as some "live" training also exists (something like sparring with some real energy in it) to ensure the techniques trained work in a more realistic context.

It is useful to note that things like kata have existed in many arts for a very long time. There are also arts that do not have them, some of which never did.


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## kungfukid94

hoshin1600 said:


> You must be looking at a very small sample. I don't see that at all. What martial arts are you looking at?


Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.


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## JR 137

kungfukid94 said:


> Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.


It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing.  Train the way you want to train. If everyone else wants to run around in silly clothing doing absurd stuff, let them have their fun.  If people ask you how you train, give them an honest answer when appropriate, and give them a stupid answer when appropriate.

A friend of mine's boyfriend's kids "do karate" at an absurd sport karate McDojo.  They're 6, so it is what it is.  She's a good friend and was asking about how I train, so I showed her a video of others in my organization (I don't video myself).

A jackass friend of a friend asked me about my training, acting like a moron.  I showed him this and told him it's my school...





Forget about changing the world.  Spend that energy training.


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## Danny T

JR 137 said:


> It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing.  Train the way you want to train. If everyone else wants to run around in silly clothing doing absurd stuff, let them have their fun.  If people ask you how you train, give them an honest answer when appropriate, and give them a stupid answer when appropriate.
> 
> A friend of mine's boyfriend's kids "do karate" at an absurd sport karate McDojo.  They're 6, so it is what it is.  She's a good friend and was asking about how I train, so I showed her a video of others in my organization (I don't video myself).
> 
> A jackass friend of a friend asked me about my training, acting like a moron.  I showed him this and told him it's my school...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget about changing the world.  Spend that energy training.


Excellent!
Absolutely love the "...it's my school" to the person acting like a moron.


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## Headhunter

kungfukid94 said:


> Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.


You can't change it and why do you want to just get on with what you do and don't worry about other people's opinions


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## Xue Sheng

Buka said:


> Old School vs. New School. Are those our only choices?



Why? that would just be more things to compare to still end with....OLD SCHOOLS BETTER


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## JowGaWolf

kungfukid94 said:


> I apologize im new to this forum  so let me try to explain what i am trying to get at is when I see martial art styles train in todays society it looks more like a dance routine with no real intent and no real world training and yet  we know that in the hey day say a few 100yrs ago that was thr complete opposite of todays world and I dont understand why that is.


people don't want to learn how to fight anymore.  It's that simple.  Learning to fight using traditional martial arts is not easy.  The stuff works but it requires more from the student than just punching, kicking, and wrestling on the ground.  Most people like the idea that they can fight but very few actual train so that they can fight.  The are many other reasons to take martial arts than to learn how to fight so fighting will often be the less popular reason.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

kungfukid94 said:


> Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.


Sounds like you're arguing about 'Kata vs sparring, and have a better view kata=bad, sparring =good. Not necessarily old school vs new school, since some newer schools do sparring and conditioning, and some older styles place heavy emphasis on Kata.

Also, it's not accurate (imo) to say that doing forms is just performance, they have their place. But it's been discussed to death here, so if you check out the search option (search Kata vs sparring or tma vs mma) you'll find a ton of threads with different views on the topic.


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## Flying Crane

hoshin1600 said:


> i didnt say farming makes you able to fight. i said growing up in that kind of environment makes you acclimated to hardship.


I grew up with some of those farmboys.  They were tough as nails, and yes, some of them could fight too.  Even those that maybe "couldn't" fight, well that's an arbitrary judgement.  Still wouldn't want to have messed with them.  They were tough.


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## Flying Crane

kungfukid94 said:


> Majority of what seen in bay area where i live there are many traditional schools that have a good lineage and good history and look good on a performing stage but lack real world usage that is unless you either do mma or muay thai or kyokushin kai karate. So what im asking is why is that and how can we change that stigma in todays world.


Ok, to what Bay Area are to referring?

And how do you know that these schools with good lineage can't use it?


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## drop bear

hoshin1600 said:


> Karate is not a sport. There are modern aspects that CAN be sport oriented.  But by definition it is not a sport.  You do not HAVE to compete to participate.  Ranks  are not based on how many wins you have.  There is no professional governing body, it's not in the Olympics.
> No its not a sport.  I personally have not been interested in any form of competition in 30 years. I also know many karate - ka  in their 70's,  80's and 90's...they don't compete either.



It is a sport or a hobby. But either way same basic premis. You need leisure time to be good at it.


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## drop bear

Danny T said:


> No I wrote what is in my wife's dictionary...She uses Cambridge, I tend to use Webster.


Macquarie. Because it has swearing in it.


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## drop bear

JowGaWolf said:


> people don't want to learn how to fight anymore.  It's that simple.  Learning to fight using traditional martial arts is not easy.  The stuff works but it requires more from the student than just punching, kicking, and wrestling on the ground.  Most people like the idea that they can fight but very few actual train so that they can fight.  The are many other reasons to take martial arts than to learn how to fight so fighting will often be the less popular reason.



Learning to fight using any method is hard.


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## drop bear

Headhunter said:


> You can't change it and why do you want to just get on with what you do and don't worry about other people's opinions



Yep. Let's all strive for mediocrity.


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## Kung Fu Wang

jobo said:


> i agree that tma are in many cases stuck in a time warp using 100 year old training methods ignore the massive leaps in sports,science that have happend in this time.
> the reason? We'll they class themselves as traditional and therefore only use tradition methods


There are many traditional training methods that I have not found any modern replacement yet. Those are:

1. Hang on tree or pole to develop strong head lock and leg twisting power.
2. Twist a weight container to develop both arm twisting power.
3. Throw a square bag with metal ball in it to develop strong grip.
4. Scoop a Bowling ball (or a metal ball) out of a hole to develop "foot scooping" power.
5. Lift a single head weight bar to develop leg lifting power.
6. ...


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## jobo

Kung Fu Wang said:


> There are many traditional training methods that I have not found any modern replacement yet. Those are:
> 
> 1. Hang on tree or pole to develop strong head lock and leg twisting power.
> 2. Twist a weight container to develop both arm twisting power.
> 3. Throw a square bag with metal ball in it to develop strong grip.
> 4. Scoop a Bowling ball (or a metal ball) out of a hole to develop "foot scooping" power.
> 5. Lift a single head weight bar to develop leg lifting power.
> 6. ...


those are the medium of training not the method, though i am fascinated by the ancient  Chinese having bowling balls


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> those are the medium of training not the method, though i am fascinated by the ancient  Chinese having bowling balls


What is your distinction between (or definition for, if that's easier) "medium" and "method".


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> What is your distinction between (or definition for, if that's easier) "medium" and "method".


resistance training is the medium and is as old as sports its self, though it fair to say it took a leap forward when they invented the bar bell with a changable weight system. Just listing a group of resistance training exercises as still current ignores the fact that of course they are,sill current as they are resistance exercises and they are still major part of any performance program. in fact any exercise is a resistance exercise even running

the,scientific method is what effect the  resistance programs has on your body and how best to use it to increase performance

people do phds in it so its fair to say it can get  quite complicated, but at its most basic, that what weight, for how many reps at what intensity ,duration and frequency and how much rest in between.


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> resistance training is the medium and is as old as sports its self, though it fair to say it took a leap forward when they invented the bar bell with a changable weight system. Just listing a group of resistance training exercises as still current ignores the fact that of course they are,sill current as they are resistance exercises and they are still major part of any performance program. in fact any exercise is a resistance exercise even running
> 
> the,scientific method is what effect the  resistance programs has on your body and how best to use it to increase performance
> 
> at its most basic, that what weight, for how many reps at what intensity ,duration and frequency and how much rest in between.


Wouldn't method, in that case, also include the specific exercise?


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> Wouldn't method, in that case, also include the specific exercise?


only in so far that if you are targeting a muscle group or movement then the number of exercises that mimic the movement your,are training are quite limited. If you want to practise foot scooping then you are limited to scooping with your foot as the prime exercise, though leg development in a more general way might improve your progress at,scooping


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> only in so far that if you are targeting a muscle group or movement then the number of exercises that mimic the movement your,are training are quite limited. If you want to practise foot scooping then you are limited to scooping with your foot as the prime exercise, though leg development in a more general way might improve your progress at,scooping


I guess my thought was that if reps, etc. are "method", then lifting a one-ended weight (in a specific way) would be, too. We could replace the traditional Chinese weight with a dumbbell loaded at one end, and do the same exercise. So, is that a new thing, an old thing, or neither? I'm not sure. If it never changed, it's not really new, but it can fit in nicely with methods that weren't in existence 100 years ago.


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## Danny T

drop bear said:


> Macquarie. Because it has swearing in it.


LOL...so do the unabridged...I quit needing one for swearing while I was teenager...Still swear; just don't need a dictionary to do so.


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> I guess my thought was that if reps, etc. are "method", then lifting a one-ended weight (in a specific way) would be, too. We could replace the traditional Chinese weight with a dumbbell loaded at one end, and do the same exercise. So, is that a new thing, an old thing, or neither? I'm not sure. If it never changed, it's not really new, but it can fit in nicely with methods that weren't in existence 100 years ago.


. Like i say some exercises are sports,specific and as old,as the sport its self, soccer players need o be able to run jump and kick so running jumping and kicking exercises are as much a part of the sport now as they were 100 years ago, the methods of training running jumping and kicking have improved massively whilst still being fundamentally the,same exercises.

of foot scooping or twisting a one sided weight about are fundamentals of,a ma then how that movement is trained or practised should have changed to get the best performance out come whilst remaining recognisably the,same,exercise.

someone has / could probably designed a machine that mimics the exercise, some sort of cable machine perhaps, but that is still the medium of training, rather than the,science of using a methodology   that maximises performance gain through using that  medium
.


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## Kung Fu Wang

jobo said:


> those are the medium of training not the method, though i am fascinated by the ancient  Chinese having bowling balls


After so many years as 24 hours gym member, I still have not been able to find any modern gym equipment that can help me to develop "both arms twisting power".






The closest equipment that I can find is this. But the rotation angle is limited.


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## jobo

Kung Fu Wang said:


> After so many years as 24 hours gym member, I still have not been able to find any modern gym equipment that can help me to develop "both arms twisting power".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The closest equipment that I can find is this. But the rotation angle is limited.


that's because its a fringe activerty, it would be very easy to attach a wheel to a weight stack, but you could get a truck and take the power steering off, but the point i was making what you use as resistance training isnt as important as what you do with it as regards to the training methodology you use


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## drop bear

gpseymour said:


> Wouldn't method, in that case, also include the specific exercise?



If I lift a rock rather than a barbell it is still lifting.

Spinning a big pot would be method though.


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## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> If I lift a rock rather than a barbell it is still lifting.
> 
> Spinning a big pot would be method though.


Agreed. And lifting the rock (or barbell) over your head is different from lifting it to your chest - different exercise, same object.


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## hoshin1600

drop bear said:


> If I lift a rock rather than a barbell it is still lifting.
> 
> Spinning a big pot would be method though.



Glad you mentioned lifting rocks. I hope you were not being sarcastic. There is a whole new fad about doing natural actions like this.


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## Kung Fu Wang

You can

- not find any modern gym equipment,
- find many traditional training equipment,

that can help you to develop this skill.


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## drop bear

hoshin1600 said:


> Glad you mentioned lifting rocks. I hope you were not being sarcastic. There is a whole new fad about doing natural actions like this.



Rocks are legit.


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## Gerry Seymour

drop bear said:


> Rocks are legit.


And heavy.


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## jobo

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You can
> 
> - not find any modern gym equipment,
> - find many traditional training equipment,
> 
> that can help you to develop this skill.


I'm not sure what point you are making, skills and fitness need to be,developed in different ways, skills general require repeating till its,a natural movement. But that just looks like good upper body strength, the guy getting thrown is,considerably smaller. Any exercises that builds upper body,strengh with a bit of a twist, will help with that


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## MA_Student

drop bear said:


> If I lift a rock rather than a barbell it is still lifting.
> 
> Spinning a big pot would be method though.


Getting major rocky 4 training montage vibes here lol


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> And heavy.


i think youl find there are,a lot of light rocks,as well


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## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> Glad you mentioned lifting rocks. I hope you were not being sarcastic. There is a whole new fad about doing natural actions like this.


why is lifting a rock more natural than lifting any other heavyish weight ?.


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## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> i think youl find there are,a lot of light rocks,as well


Yeah, but we never notice those. It's the heavy buggers we remember.


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## jobo

gpseymour said:


> Yeah, but we never notice those. It's the heavy buggers we remember.


same with girl friends!


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## Kung Fu Wang

jobo said:


> I'm not sure what point you are making, skills and fitness need to be,developed in different ways, skills general require repeating till its,a natural movement. But that just looks like good upper body strength, the guy getting thrown is,considerably smaller. Any exercises that builds upper body,strengh with a bit of a twist, will help with that


What I was trying to point out is there are certain strength that's needed in MA application that we can't develop in the modern gym environment. It requires traditional MA special development equipment. The general strength (such as the upper body strength) is not enough. You will need the "leg twisting" strength in this application.

Until we can find the equivalent modern training method, the traditional training method is still "superior".

Here is the same technique used by a 160 lb guy against a 175 lb guy in competition environment (not just a demo).


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## jobo

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What I was trying to point out is there are certain strength that's needed in MA application that we can't develop in the modern gym environment. It requires traditional MA special development equipment. The general strength (such as the upper body strength) is not enough. You will need the "leg twisting" strength in this application.
> 
> Until we can find the equivalent modern training method, the traditional training method is still "superior".
> 
> Here is the same technique used by a 160 lb guy against a 175 lb guy in competition environment (not just a demo).


well no, your point is similar to saying there is nothing in a modern gym that will help you kick a football harder, as there is no football kicking machine. You can  develop all the muscles in the,chain,But the only way to put them all together is to kick a,football. You can do develop all the muscles used in that twist, but the only way to develop the muscles to work together ie skill to throw is to throw something

but your not catching the point I'm making, i hate modern gyms they are all glass and chrome and i hate the people who use them, they are all Lycra and iPods

you can use a modern gym and old training methodologies  and get nowhere fast, just as you can use modern methodologies' and old equipment and build impressive improvement in performance

I'm heavily in to body weight exercise and there arnt many older exercises than that, its what you do and when for how long and how many, that needs to be designed using modern understanding of how to increase physical performance


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> well no, your point is similar to saying there is nothing in a modern gym that will help you kick a football harder, as there is no football kicking machine. You can  develop all the muscles in the,chain,But the only way to put them all together is to kick a,football. You can do develop all the muscles used in that twist, but the only way to develop the muscles to work together ie skill to throw is to throw something
> 
> but your not catching the point I'm making, i hate modern gyms they are all glass and chrome and i hate the people who use them, they are all Lycra and iPods
> 
> you can use a modern gym and old training methodologies  and get nowhere fast, just as you can use modern methodologies' and old equipment and build impressive improvement in performance
> 
> I'm heavily in to body weight exercise and there arnt many older exercises than that, its what you do and when for how long and how many, that needs to be designed using modern understanding of how to increase physical performance


Nice generalization of people there.


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> Nice generalization of people there.


pretty accurate though, there are also a good % of young men in gym shark tshirts and beats head phones, as soon as you see them you know they are,about to do something stupid.

anyone who buys,expensive clothes to look good in the gym is not my sort of person or rather anyone,who cares what they look like whilst they they should be,concentrating on improving is not my sort and probably won't improve much either as they spend most of there time admiring themselves in all the mirrors filming themselves, updating their Instagram account and chatting up young ladies in Lycra.
its,a bit like,a disco only with a few,running machines and,a,squat rack thrown in


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> pretty accurate though, there are also a good % of young men in gym shark tshirts and beats head phones, as soon as you see them you know they are,about to do something stupid.
> 
> anyone who buys,expensive clothes to look good in the gym is not my sort of person or rather anyone,who cares what they look like whilst they they should be,concentrating on improving is not my sort and probably won't improve much either as they spend most of there time admiring themselves in all the mirrors filming themselves, updating their Instagram account and chatting up young ladies in Lycra.
> its,a bit like,a disco only with a few,running machines and,a,squat rack thrown in


That's the generalization I'm talking about. Many people buy stuff for the gym, because what's in their closet wouldn't be functional there. And if they are buying, why not buy what they feel good in? Who does that hurt?


----------



## Matt Bryers

gpseymour said:


> That's the generalization I'm talking about. Many people buy stuff for the gym, because what's in their closet wouldn't be functional there. And if they are buying, why not buy what they feel good in? Who does that hurt?



I remember reading a study about people are starting to train, and that buying the "new clothes", etc was a healthy thing for them, because it committed them to the activity.  Just like at our school (Jiu-Jitsu), guys / girls are always buying new rashguards, gis, etc because it makes them feel good and inspires them.  

I understand the general fitness selfie crowd who only cares about showing off to each other; but for people are just "want to feel good for themselves" - there's nothing wrong with that sexy gi


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> That's the generalization I'm talking about. Many people buy stuff for the gym, because what's in their closet wouldn't be functional there. And if they are buying, why not buy what they feel good in? Who does that hurt?


true if they don't own any old tshirts, but that seems unlikely. Most will have lots of functional gym clothes, but go and buy flash gym clothes. What's wrong with it ?it shows them to be shallow and appearance obsessed , and not the type of person i want to be in close confined with,


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> true if they don't own any old tshirts, but that seems unlikely. Most will have lots of functional gym clothes, but go and buy flash gym clothes. What's wrong with it ?it shows them to be shallow and appearance obsessed , and not the type of person i want to be in close confined with,


I'd be one who didn't, if I hadn't bought clothes for the gym. I have only a few t-shirts that would be appropriate (I never wear them, unless working in the yard), other than the ones I bought specifically for going to the gym/runnning. The same goes for shorts (I almost never wear those anymore, except for exercising). I know others whose old t-shirts have been used when painting their house and other activities that leave them less-than-nice. So they want something new. If lycra, or tech fabric, or bright pink paisley suits their fancy, it has no real bearing on their personality.


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> I'd be one who didn't, if I hadn't bought clothes for the gym. I have only a few t-shirts that would be appropriate (I never wear them, unless working in the yard), other than the ones I bought specifically for going to the gym/runnning. The same goes for shorts (I almost never wear those anymore, except for exercising). I know others whose old t-shirts have been used when painting their house and other activities that leave them less-than-nice. So they want something new. If lycra, or tech fabric, or bright pink paisley suits their fancy, it has no real bearing on their personality.


in what way does having paint on them make them unsuitable for exercise. There is a considerable difference between buy some shorts and a couple of shirts and spending top dollar on designer clobber to get all sweaty in, yes being that self obsessed says a lot about them.
down at the big boys spit and saw dust gym where serious folk go to work out its all combat pants and washed out hoodies with the sleeves gut of. No one is looking at their clothes only their lifts and maybe their traps. They save their nice gear for Saturday night


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> in what way does having paint on them make them unsuitable for exercise. There is a considerable difference between buy some shorts and a couple of shirts and spending top dollar on designer clobber to get all sweaty in, yes being that self obsessed says a lot about them.
> down at the big boys spit and saw dust gym where serious folk go to work out its all combat pants and washed out hoodies with the sleeves gut of. No one is looking at their clothes only their lifts and maybe their traps. They save their nice gear for Saturday night


Many of us just don't like going out in public in stuff that's covered in paint. We'd rather drop $10 on something that looks better. You're assuming they are all spending big money on that gear, but I have similar stuff, and I almost never spend more than $10 on anything athletic, unless it's martial arts gear or shoes.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> down at the big boys spit and saw dust gym where serious folk go to work out its all combat pants and washed out hoodies with the sleeves gut of. No one is looking at their clothes only their lifts and maybe their traps. They save their nice gear for Saturday night


By the way, most of those folks choose those clothes for what they look like in them, too. They want to fit in or stand out, just like the folks at the shiny gym.


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> By the way, most of those folks choose those clothes for what they look like in them, too. They want to fit in or stand out, just like the folks at the shiny gym.


no they wear combats and old hoodies most of the time, but if they are using what they have rather than spending big just to show off, that shows them as a good person, nb you can't dress to fit in and stand out at the same time?


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> Many of us just don't like going out in public in stuff that's covered in paint. We'd rather drop $10 on something that looks better. You're assuming they are all spending big money on that gear, but I have similar stuff, and I almost never spend more than $10 on anything athletic, unless it's martial arts gear or shoes.


then why are you arguing with me, its people spending bog on designer gear to go to the gym with that i have an objection to as showing them to be,self obsessed

i buy a fair bit of everlast stuff, as its not a fashion label over here, you can pick it up for buttons as discount stores but not for exercise u till it jiggered

but i dig my sleeveless hoodie and combat pants out for ma lessons


----------



## jobo

Matt Bryers said:


> I remember reading a study about people are starting to train, and that buying the "new clothes", etc was a healthy thing for them, because it committed them to the activity.  Just like at our school (Jiu-Jitsu), guys / girls are always buying new rashguards, gis, etc because it makes them feel good and inspires them.
> 
> I understand the general fitness selfie crowd who only cares about showing off to each other; but for people are just "want to feel good for themselves" - there's nothing wrong with that sexy gi


its certainly a lie people tell themselves when they are thinking of signing up to an expensive gym or buying a mountain bike or what have you. 

I'm very doubtful  it works in the majority of cases, the UK spend on fitness apparel and equipment is many billions, but the number of people that have a good standard of fitness is quite a low %. So it ether its  a few people buying multiple  running shoes Lycra and bicycles or there are a lot of people buying them and not using them.

every January, my local park is full of fat people in brand new track suits and running shoes, jogging and painting their way round the park. By feb they have all gone, not to be seen again .
every Easter my local woods is full of fat people in Lycra and brand new mountain bikes, by June they have all disappeared. Somewhere there are a lot of underused running shoes and bicycles


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> no they wear combats and old hoodies most of the time, but if they are using what they have rather than spending big just to show off, that shows them as a good person, nb you can't dress to fit in and stand out at the same time?


Do you think they just stumble into those clothes? They own them because they've chosen that look. And, yes, you can both fit in and stand out. Someone in bright-colored tech fabric will do both in many shiny gyms. That same outfit will only stand out (not fit in) at a gym where sweats are more common.

And clothing really doesn't tell you nearly as much about a person's character in that way as you claim.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> then why are you arguing with me, its people spending bog on designer gear to go to the gym with that i have an objection to as showing them to be,self obsessed
> 
> i buy a fair bit of everlast stuff, as its not a fashion label over here, you can pick it up for buttons as discount stores but not for exercise u till it jiggered
> 
> but i dig my sleeveless hoodie and combat pants out for ma lessons


I just pointed out that you are making rash generalizations based upon your perception of their clothing. You started arguing the point.


----------



## drop bear

jobo said:


> true if they don't own any old tshirts, but that seems unlikely. Most will have lots of functional gym clothes, but go and buy flash gym clothes. What's wrong with it ?it shows them to be shallow and appearance obsessed , and not the type of person i want to be in close confined with,



Yeah but i went and tie dyed my gi.

And I look fabulous.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1624998574177358


----------



## FighterTwister

kungfukid94 said:


> I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.




There is a standard of ethics on keeping things traditional and that should be true and practiced for all types of martial arts and training methods but also expanding and learning new modern methods or techniques and blending both into programs that work for people's body types actual physical condition they are in as well, and generally broadening knowledge and staying up to date and current as well as mastering the old methods.

Keeping a record and documentation of both old and new methods is wise.

So many examples I could elaborate on here, but lets look at one


The Neck Conditioning - Stretching and Strengthening methods-

Example 1

Critical Neck Training for Boxers - STRENGTH SENSEI


Example 2








Note:- For anything that you do you need professional guidance and supervision with proper instruction on how to.

I have read links like this on this topic over the last few years:- MODERN VS OLD SCHOOL - What's your vibe?

People with an education Degree in Sports Science embracing new technologies are also advancing athletes in various sports and overall performance.

As an example -






I love all this stuff really interesting and impressive with new labs and tech as well as software programs being written and used to determine many aspects of brain functions heart rate motion sensing etc

Exciting for sure!


----------



## punisher73

Headhunter said:


> Why would working on a farm make you tough? All it means is you can lift some hay and milk some cows doesn't mean you can fight



I think the overall point was that in previous generations the average person was used to hard labor and had built a good amount of strength from that labor.  Today, for the most part, we don't see that in the average student.


----------



## hoshin1600

drop bear said:


> Yeah but i went and tie dyed my gi.
> 
> And I look fabulous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1624998574177358



no .. you look like the Grateful dead bear


----------



## jobo

punisher73 said:


> I think the overall point was that in previous generations the average person was used to hard labor and had built a good amount of strength from that labor.  Today, for the most part, we don't see that in the average student.


how many generations,are you going back? Mechanisation has been progressively  reducing hard labour for about 300 years, its been a good while since farmers ploughed by hand


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> how many generations,are you going back? Mechanisation has been progressively  reducing hard labour for about 300 years, its been a good while since farmers ploughed by hand


Yes, but an agricultural life was still pretty labor-intensive 100 years ago. Still is, in many cases, though less so than it was. And most people worked doing some sort of physical labor, much of which has become less physical than it was 100 years ago.


----------



## punisher73

jobo said:


> how many generations,are you going back? Mechanisation has been progressively  reducing hard labour for about 300 years, its been a good while since farmers ploughed by hand



Even the farmers I know today that deal with livestock and bailing hay are in much better shape and a lot stronger than the average person and even some above average "weight lifters".  Of course these are smaller farms and not the huge commercial farms.

Heck, realistically you can go back to even the 50's and 60's in the US for hard labor with certain professions like iron workers and dock hands.


----------



## jobo

punisher73 said:


> Even the farmers I know today that deal with livestock and bailing hay are in much better shape and a lot stronger than the average person and even some above average "weight lifters".  Of course these are smaller farms and not the huge commercial farms.
> 
> Heck, realistically you can go back to even the 50's and 60's in the US for hard labor with certain professions like iron workers and dock hands.


but hard labour,as you call it had the effect of causing long term injuries from over use and poor body mechanics. So you ended up with people who were prematurely  old and decrepit rather than what you are suggesting  a large group of very fit and able people
i picked a life long injury from the,amount of papers a i carried on my paper round


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> but hard labour,as you call it had the effect of causing long term injuries from over use and poor body mechanics. So you ended up with people who were prematurely  old and decrepit rather than what you are suggesting  a large group of very fit and able people
> i picked a life long injury from the,amount of papers a i carried on my paper round


For many of them, yes. I don't think that hampers their early learning in MA, though. It hampers them later in life. I don't think anyone was suggesting that hard labor was better for the person, just that it made them tougher, stronger, and more fit (at the time) when they started MA than most people today are when they start.

I also think we have many more middle-aged people starting MA now. My first 8 students were all 35 or older. All but 1 was older than me (I was 45 at the time).


----------



## hoshin1600

older methods were better,  todays fitness doesnt even come close to the demands of long ago.  lifting weights is not natural.  the Chinese in the late 1800's were super conditioned they were impervious to cuts and some where even impervious to bullets.   i would bet an iron shirt practitioner is way better than a weight lifter today.
  BOOYA


----------



## Gerry Seymour

hoshin1600 said:


> older methods were better,  todays fitness doesnt even come close to the demands of long ago.  lifting weights is not natural.  the Chinese in the late 1800's were super conditioned they were impervious to cuts and some where even impervious to bullets.   i would bet an iron shirt practitioner is way better than a weight lifter today.
> BOOYA


What is unnatural about lifting weights?


----------



## PhotonGuy

hoshin1600 said:


> older methods were better,  todays fitness doesnt even come close to the demands of long ago.  lifting weights is not natural.  the Chinese in the late 1800's were super conditioned they were impervious to cuts and some where even impervious to bullets.   i would bet an iron shirt practitioner is way better than a weight lifter today.
> BOOYA


You believe too many crazy stories. While there might be some truth behind the "iron shirt" methods back then much of it is exaggerated and some of it is downright fantasy. When they appeared to be impervious to bullets for instance, they were shooting blanks not live rounds.


----------



## Flying Crane

PhotonGuy said:


> You believe too many crazy stories. While there might be some truth behind the "iron shirt" methods back then much of it is exaggerated and some of it is downright fantasy. When they appeared to be impervious to bullets for instance, they were shooting blanks not live rounds.


I think you may be failing to recognize sarcasm.


----------



## PhotonGuy

Flying Crane said:


> I think you may be failing to recognize sarcasm.



Sarcasm is hard to recognize when its done in writing, its best used when you're talking out loud.


----------



## hoshin1600

gpseymour said:


> What is unnatural about lifting weights?



I was following jobo's lead and was just making a ridiculous comment.
However there is some truth in that weight lifting is often an isolation action.  Natural daily hard work like farm work involves secondary stabilizing muscles as well as the primary.  And contrary to many posts made, there are still farms here in the US and it's damn hard work.


----------



## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> I was following jobo's lead and was just making a ridiculous comment.
> However there is some truth in that weight lifting is often an isolation action.  Natural daily hard work like farm work involves secondary stabilizing muscles as well as the primary.  And contrary to many posts made, there are still farms here in the US and it's damn hard work.


what's NATURAL about farm work?


----------



## punisher73

jobo said:


> what's NATURAL about farm work?



Look at the current trend in the "fitness world", it is all about "functional movement".  Most of those training methods mimic many of the things that hard labor does all day.  Things like carrying around heavy objects from point A to point B (the lift/exercise is even called a farmer's walk).  Lifting heavy awkward objects from the ground up to a platform.  Pulling heavy objects with a large rope across the ground or up in the air.

Much of the exercises in weight lifting are designed to isolate a specific muscle, which does not occur outside of that specific exercise in the vast majority of cases.  When is the last time you were on your back and mimicked a dumbbell flye?  Almost never, but that same muscle action is used when you are trying to hold and lift a barrel or rock to move it or carry it and you are also using the rest of the body with this action.

To me that is what is meant by "natural", something the body is supposed to be doing and designed to do.


----------



## jobo

punisher73 said:


> Look at the current trend in the "fitness world", it is all about "functional movement".  Most of those training methods mimic many of the things that hard labor does all day.  Things like carrying around heavy objects from point A to point B (the lift/exercise is even called a farmer's walk).  Lifting heavy awkward objects from the ground up to a platform.  Pulling heavy objects with a large rope across the ground or up in the air.
> 
> Much of the exercises in weight lifting are designed to isolate a specific muscle, which does not occur outside of that specific exercise in the vast majority of cases.  When is the last time you were on your back and mimicked a dumbbell flye?  Almost never, but that same muscle action is used when you are trying to hold and lift a barrel or rock to move it or carry it and you are also using the rest of the body with this action.
> 
> To me that is what is meant by "natural", something the body is supposed to be doing and designed to do.


so  the people who lift heavy awkward objects and have bad backs, is that natural?

people tend to use natural to indicate healthy or good, there is nothing healthy about a prolapsed disc, but it is natural

if the end result is spinal damage, or any long term injury, then there is a,strong case,for saying the body wasn't,designed to do that! What ever that is


----------



## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> what's NATURAL about farm work?



see what i am talking about ...ridiculous.   
current scientific thought is that humans have been farming for 23,000 years.
Farming May Have Started Way Earlier Than Scientists Thought | HuffPost

the first nautilus exercise machines where sold in 1970.

machines and weight lifting isolate muscle groups ,   tiling soil or bailing hay does not.  the body has evolved over thousands of years to do natural work like farming.

how about for once you stop arguing just so you can feel superior.


----------



## hoshin1600

jobo said:


> so  the people who lift heavy awkward objects and have bad backs, is that natural?
> 
> people tend to use natural to indicate healthy or good, there is nothing healthy about a prolapsed disc, but it is natural
> 
> if the end result is spinal damage, or any long term injury, then there is a,strong case,for saying the body wasn't,designed to do that! What ever that is



karate causes brain anurisims and strokes.
aikido and judo causes kidney failure.
BJJ causes joint damage
using a computer causes meta carpal and poor eye sight
sitting in a chair causes spine issues
walking on concrete causes knee damage and plantarfaciitis
eating sugar causes cancer, diabetes and other health issues
eating wheat can cause nurological issues
you can die from driving a car
you can die during child birth
a meteor can hit the earth and we will all die

maybe we should all just crawl into a hole and hide from life.

do you have a point other than just wanting to be a *%^(*&


----------



## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> karate causes brain anurisims and strokes.
> aikido and judo causes kidney failure.
> BJJ causes joint damage
> using a computer causes meta carpal and poor eye sight
> sitting in a chair causes spine issues
> walking on concrete causes knee damage and plantarfaciitis
> eating sugar causes cancer, diabetes and other health issues
> eating wheat can cause nurological issues
> you can die from driving a car
> you can die during child birth
> a meteor can hit the earth and we will all die
> 
> maybe we should all just crawl into a hole and hide from life.
> 
> do you have a point other than just wanting to be a *%^(*&


yes and you've made my point for me with the,above, to much of anything is bad for you. Yet your sticking to the point that HARD physical labour is good for you. 

that much the same as you recommending that people should eat as much sugar as possible


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> yes and you've made my point for me with the,above, to much of anything is bad for you. Yet your sticking to the point that HARD physical labour is good for you.
> 
> that much the same as you recommending that people should eat as much sugar as possible


False equivalency.


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> False equivalency.


maybe, but it was his false equivalency, as he brought sugar into it as a means of comparison!

but anyway, no its much the same, you need sugar in your diet, just as you need exercise in your life. Deciding that excess exercise is good, is much the same,as deciding that excessive,sugar is,


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> False equivalency.


I'm im betting that his life is over flowing with labour saving devices, when he takes his clothes down to the river to wash them by beating them on rocks, his   might he might have a case to make


----------



## Gerry Seymour

jobo said:


> I'm im betting that his life is over flowing with labour saving devices, when he takes his clothes down to the river to wash them by beating them on rocks, his   might he might have a case to make


That he uses labor-saving devices doesn't change the original statement: that manual labor leads to muscle gain and toughness not commonly found among those of us whose most manual labor is pounding a keyboard.


----------



## hoshin1600

why do i even bother.

and i dont have to drag my clothes down to the river and beat them on a rock....i am married, she is my best labor saving device.
(and on a side note she grew up in Thai land and actually did grow up washing clothes on a rock but now she lives in America with Louis Vuitton hand bags and shoes and drives a Lexus )


----------



## jobo

gpseymour said:


> That he uses labor-saving devices doesn't change the original statement: that manual labor leads to muscle gain and toughness not commonly found among those of us whose most manual labor is pounding a keyboard.


it changes his point that hard manual labour is,desirable, if he is spending his dollars on things that remove hard labour from his life, he clearly feel a,washing machine is more desirable than the additional rxcersise. He seem to want it fore others and not himself or his wife


----------



## jobo

hoshin1600 said:


> why do i even bother.
> 
> and i dont have to drag my clothes down to the river and beat them on a rock....i am married, she is my best labor saving device.
> (and on a side note she grew up in Thai land and actually did grow up washing clothes on a rock but now she lives in America with Louis Vuitton hand bags and shoes and drives a Lexus )


green card?


----------



## punisher73

jobo said:


> so  the people who lift heavy awkward objects and have bad backs, is that natural?
> 
> people tend to use natural to indicate healthy or good, there is nothing healthy about a prolapsed disc, but it is natural
> 
> if the end result is spinal damage, or any long term injury, then there is a,strong case,for saying the body wasn't,designed to do that! What ever that is



You are making improper cause/effect relationships.  It is like saying that eating ice cream causes it to be hot outside.  

In your earlier post, you even said that poor body mechanics lead to injury.  Exactly!  We aren't talking about the benefit of doing things wrong and harming the body.  The human machine is unique, in that, it can be made to do things it wasn't designed to do.  This is why many long time TKD people require hip surgery/replacements, or why gymnasts have such short careers.

Working the way the body is designed doesn't cause injury.  Hard labor doesn't lead to injury, in and of itself, labor of ANY kind done incorrectly leads to injury.


----------



## jobo

punisher73 said:


> You are making improper cause/effect relationships.  It is like saying that eating ice cream causes it to be hot outside.
> 
> In your earlier post, you even said that poor body mechanics lead to injury.  Exactly!  We aren't talking about the benefit of doing things wrong and harming the body.  The human machine is unique, in that, it can be made to do things it wasn't designed to do.  This is why many long time TKD people require hip surgery/replacements, or why gymnasts have such short careers.
> 
> Working the way the body is designed doesn't cause injury.  Hard labor doesn't lead to injury, in and of itself, labor of ANY kind done incorrectly leads to injury.



and hard labour leads to greater injuries sooner. It's impossible to work physically hard for 10 hours,a,day every day and not damage your body, just as its impossible to move all heavy objects using correct techniques

the human machine isnt unique, all machines can be made to do things they aren't designed for and generaly that breaks them or at least wears them out prematurely


----------



## FighterTwister

kungfukid94 said:


> *Training Methods Old School vs. New School *
> I have been doing Hung Kyun for the past 3yrs and Ive learned alot especially some old school training methods and some new school ones. the reason im bringing this topic up is due to the fact that every thing i have seen nowa days in traditional martial arts schools live up to the "glorious" histry that came before these arts were given a name and i want to know why that is.



To further add to this thread, the most important aspects to consider are whether its old or new is:-


    Stretches -  Flexibility conditioning.
    Exercises - Mobility  conditioning
    Light Weights - Strength conditioning
    Relation and Recovery -  Natural healing conditioning

In that order as well.

Some of the old methods are traditional beliefs because they have an underpinning reason for example strengthening the nerves or ligaments and increase certain chemicals in the human body. There are studies and information you can find some know this as Qigong, Chi or Kai these assist in the process of healing the body in intense martial art practices and lower heart rate and lactic acids etc

Its a good topic and area of study.

I did post here -http://www.martialtalk.com/threads/looking-for-advice.124887/#post-1860020    ..........  as added thoughts by others in community as well.


----------



## jobo

FighterTwister said:


> To further add to this thread, the most important aspects to consider are whether its old or new is:-
> 
> 
> Stretches -  Flexibility conditioning.
> Exercises - Mobility  conditioning
> Light Weights - Strength conditioning
> Relation and Recovery -  Natural healing conditioning
> 
> In that order as well.
> 
> Some of the old methods are traditional beliefs because they have an underpinning reason for example strengthening the nerves or ligaments and increase certain chemicals in the human body. There are studies and information you can find some know this as Qigong, Chi or Kai these assist in the process of healing the body in intense martial art practices and lower heart rate and lactic acids etc
> 
> Its a good topic and area of study.
> 
> I did post here -http://www.martialtalk.com/threads/looking-for-advice.124887/#post-1860020    ..........  as added thoughts by others in community as well.


I'm wondering how you strengthen nerves exactly?


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## FighterTwister

jobo said:


> I'm wondering how you strengthen nerves exactly?



Example 1:- How to Strengthen and Quicken Your Central Nervous System | psychology24.org

Example 2:- Qigong Benefits

Lots of PDF files online here are two l like:-  
http://mindbodylab.bio.uci.edu/publications/Cultural Essay.pdf

http://mindbodylab.bio.uci.edu/publications/Cultural Essay.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00792R000200270001-6.pdf


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