# Entry techniques



## cwk (Dec 4, 2010)

I was sparring with my regular training partner today and I was mainly concentrating on trying out different entry techniques ( bridging and passing to the inside of his guard without waiting for him to attack first). It got me thinking that it might be a good topic for a discussion so here we are-
So, What entry techniques do you guys favour?
I have a few favourites but one I'm always successful with is to step in either with a straight non committed punch or simply a tan or mun sao ( it doesn't really matter as this is just a set up ) then, as soon as you make contact with their lead hand and they give you a little outward pressure, huen to the inside of the arm and give them a short heavy pak sao to the inside of the elbow joint or bicep. This same hand then bounces straight back to cover their rear guarding hand and it leaves you with a clear strike with your ( rear) free hand.This all has to be done very quickly but it's quite a simple action and with a little bit of drilling it becomes very natural.


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## hunt1 (Dec 4, 2010)

The sword form provides you with 12 different entry methods of the type you are looking for. The pole form provides 6 more. !8 different attacking entries should keep you occupied for some time.


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## mook jong man (Dec 4, 2010)

Our term for entry techniques is called "Chark Jong" which roughly means smashing defences.
Pak sau and punch or a Tan sau and punch would be a very simple example of a Chark Jong technique.

The main factor which determines what type of Chark Jong technique you will use is the position of the opponents guard in relation to your guard.

If his guard situated higher than yours , tactically it will be better for you to come from underneath and insde his guard with yours and destabilise his stance and penetrate his guard that way.

If your opponents guard is the same height or lower than yours , then you would be better served to come over the top and outside of his guard with a double Tan sau , trapping both his arms and striking through at the same time then following up with further trapping.

If it is a non Wing Chun opponent we are facing then the above concepts still apply , but we will also have the added factors of the opponents arms situated at different heights , not positioned on the centerline etc , they may even have a dynamic guard that is constantly moving.

To simplify this all we have to do as we move in , is to mirror the opponents arm positions with our own appropriate Wing Chun structures and strike through as we control both their hands.

One example maybe that the opponent has a high and low guard , one hand head height and the other down low.

We could control and strike through to the neck on the inside of his high arm with a Tan Sau whilst at the same time controlling and striking through over the top of his low arm to the stomach with a Chit Sau or your lineages equivalent.

The main thing to remember is that we have to be able to hit through on the opponent without ourselves getting hit in the process.
This requires that we must use the appropriate hand structures in order to control both of his hands and hit through simultaneously , preferably while also affecting his stance.


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## WC_lun (Dec 4, 2010)

I am more of a counter fighter, so I don't seek to initiate the bridge as much as control it once contact is make.  So I haven't really thought much of these types of techniques.  Some interesting repsonses though.  I'll have to remember them in case any of my classmates are reading MT too!


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## cwk (Dec 5, 2010)

hunt1 said:


> The sword form provides you with 12 different entry methods of the type you are looking for. The pole form provides 6 more. !8 different attacking entries should keep you occupied for some time.



we actually have 8 seperate drills for entry techniques in our system and for each entry there's a counter and then a counter to the counter and so on, to a total of 8 counter-counters (if that's a word?). So all in all there's 64 techniques.


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## cwk (Dec 5, 2010)

mook jong man said:


> Our term for entry techniques is called "Chark Jong" which roughly means smashing defences.
> Pak sau and punch or a Tan sau and punch would be a very simple example of a Chark Jong technique.
> 
> The main factor which determines what type of Chark Jong technique you will use is the position of the opponents guard in relation to your guard.
> ...


  Good info as always mr mook.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it's true what you say about the guard. my training partner is a chen taiji instuctor so entering his guard does take some adjusting of angles and such and I have to be very aware of tight circular counters coming in from tricky angles.


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## KamonGuy2 (Dec 6, 2010)

The trouble is that people often think of fighting opponents who have guards up. In my experience this is a very rare thing. Most people who initiate confrontations have their hands low. Its only once you have struck the person that they get hands up.

When you train in sparring CWK, are you training entry with your partner on the back foot, or are they in a well planted guard? Its often very useful to train your partner going back - Ive previously been caught out by opponents going backwards to defend themselves and its quite awkward to follow them. This is why controlling an opponent is a very handy tool to learn and something wing chun specializes in (ie a lot of arts rely on strike upon strike as opposed to setting up the opponent)

Ive seen so many demo videos of wing chun which have involved an attacker throwing in a pathetic strike from a neutral base. In reality, most people will throw in a punch with their whole body. Its worth analyzing how people will actually engage you in a confrontation. My advice is to watch some CCTV shows and youll see what I mean


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## cwk (Dec 6, 2010)

Kamon Guy said:


> The trouble is that people often think of fighting opponents who have guards up. In my experience this is a very rare thing. Most people who initiate confrontations have their hands low. Its only once you have struck the person that they get hands up.
> 
> When you train in sparring CWK, are you training entry with your partner on the back foot, or are they in a well planted guard? Its often very useful to train your partner going back - Ive previously been caught out by opponents going backwards to defend themselves and its quite awkward to follow them. This is why controlling an opponent is a very handy tool to learn and something wing chun specializes in (ie a lot of arts rely on strike upon strike as opposed to setting up the opponent)
> 
> Ive seen so many demo videos of wing chun which have involved an attacker throwing in a pathetic strike from a neutral base. In reality, most people will throw in a punch with their whole body. Its worth analyzing how people will actually engage you in a confrontation. My advice is to watch some CCTV shows and youll see what I mean



It's just free sparring, no safety gear or gloves just some mutual trust, control and a little faith lol. we didn't agree to  work on entry techniques, it was just something that I was playing with while sparring.
My partner is a chen taiji guy so he's usully in a very rooted stance but still quite mobile. He often uses steps to the side and back and also a lot of body movement.
I agree with what you say about "real life" punches, I worked on the doors back in blighty for a while and pretty much every time someone took a swing at me it was a fully committed, whole body punch. I think the punch from a neutral stance is good for getting the technique down but then people should move onto more "alive" drills, with your partner moving around and gradually putting more and more into the punches.


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## Jens (Jan 14, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> The sword form provides you with 12 different entry methods of the type you are looking for. The pole form provides 6 more. !8 different attacking entries should keep you occupied for some time.


 
hunt1 are you referring to 18 footwork patterns? what exactly do you mean by attacking entry methods?


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## geezer (Jan 14, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> The sword form provides you with 12 different entry methods of the type you are looking for. The pole form provides 6 more. !8 different attacking entries should keep you occupied for some time.


 
I wasn't going to bring this up, but now that Jens has posted a question regarding this comment by Hunter, .... I really wonder if this is much use for 99.9% of us. I mean how many have even been taught the Luk Dim Boon Kwun or Bart Cham Dao? And even if they have, are they the same versions? And even if they have learned the same versions, do they view the applications the same way? Hmmm. Anyway, it's not much use to me.... I've learned the pole form and about half the dao form so far, but still have a ton to learn about application. As far as entry techniques go, I try to clear my mind of what I _want_ to do. I usually surge forward when I perceive that the other person is committing to an attack, I try to intercept that attack... _and the rest is why we train chi-sau and lat-sau!_


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## Nabakatsu (Jan 14, 2011)

I like those silly Keith Kernshpect folks idea of "universal solution" to some extent, at least in a sparring context. A kick to the bladder, or somewhere on the leg with a few chain punches.
I've experienced how horribly idiotic it is to try and kickbox with Wing Tzun.. I haven't yet had a chance to rectify that mistake, but I plan on being a lot more aggressive, and dominating the center line like a maniac, constantly pressuring and knocking back my opponent. 
As far as entry techniques, I really agree with Steve, I need to turn my mind off and just let the training come out.. trying to sweep across a punch with tan da, and footwork angling me off the main line of attack,  or pak da a jab just didn't work!
I took some decent shots, so maybe I'll eat some more to get to a close fighting range and than from there see what I can work with. I think I could probably use my lat sau skills to get in... time will tell!


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## cwk (Jan 16, 2011)

Nabakatsu said:


> I like those silly Keith Kernshpect folks idea of "universal solution" to some extent, at least in a sparring context. A kick to the bladder, or somewhere on the leg with a few chain punches.
> I've experienced how horribly idiotic it is to try and kickbox with Wing Tzun.. I haven't yet had a chance to rectify that mistake, but I plan on being a lot more aggressive, and dominating the center line like a maniac, constantly pressuring and knocking back my opponent.
> As far as entry techniques, I really agree with Steve, I need to turn my mind off and just let the training come out.. trying to sweep across a punch with tan da, and footwork angling me off the main line of attack,  or pak da a jab just didn't work!
> I took some decent shots, so maybe I'll eat some more to get to a close fighting range and than from there see what I can work with. I think I could probably use my lat sau skills to get in... time will tell!



I usually just use a parry and head/foot movement with jabs. I think waiting for your opponent to commit with a rear hand or leg is the best time to try to enter. Either that or use kicks to throw off their timing/spacing and then strike through their guard at an angle backed up with proper structure ( whole body mass). They can either get hit, cover up or try to counter from an awkward position, IMO any of these is a better situation than what will happen if you try to pak/tan da a jab.


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## mook jong man (Jan 16, 2011)

We like to work on counter-punching the jab , by that I mean we use our own punch to intercept the jab.

Although we are using it to intercept and gain contact with his arm , it goes without saying that we must have the intention of driving straight through and punching him in the head if the energy from his jab is weak or off centre. 

 But due to the uncommitted nature of the attack this can be difficult as the hand is already retracting and the opponent is usually already retreating , in my experience against a fast jab you will be doing well just to be able to stay with it and stick to it.

Using our right arm to his  right arm or our left arm to his left arm , making contact with the outside of our wrist to the outside of his wrist.
If the jab was left out there we would latch it down , but usually the jab  is retracted too fast for it too be latched down.

Therefore is important to move into him quickly so that you can stick to his jab with a Fook sau , using your footwork and springy force you can usually jam up his punching arm and prevent him from firing off multiple jabs with the same arm.

Make sure you keep an eye on his power hand at the back , because he will instinctively try and use that when his front hand is jammed up and under control.


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## hunt1 (Jan 16, 2011)

geezer said:


> I wasn't going to bring this up, but now that Jens has posted a question regarding this comment by Hunter, .... I really wonder if this is much use for 99.9% of us. I mean how many have even been taught the Luk Dim Boon Kwun or Bart Cham Dao? And even if they have, are they the same versions? And even if they have learned the same versions, do they view the applications the same way? Hmmm. Anyway, it's not much use to me...
> 
> I find this a sad commentary on wing chun and leads one to see why wing chun is always attacked for not showing any evidence of producing quality fighters. The in fighting among yip mans students still infects so much of what is done today.
> 
> ...


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## hunt1 (Jan 16, 2011)

Jens said:


> hunt1 are you referring to 18 footwork patterns? what exactly do you mean by attacking entry methods?



 Jens while footwork plays its part I am being more general in my statements.

 The weapons forms are not just a magic form that has use for weapons and nothing else. They contain the core crossing the gap and finding the bridge methods of wing chun fighting.

 Anything you can do against a sword or a knife or a spear you can certainly do against an empty hand can't you?

 When you look up wing chun fighting on youtube what is the common problem you see in almost 100% or the clips? The inability to safely with aggression cross the gap. The core points of the weapons forms give you the methods to do just this. No need for the WT universal solution  etc.

 The core points will give you 18 different ways to do this. Then you practice them either at the 6 gates or if your wing chun  is like mine 9 gates. The methods will also teach you how to attack 2 gates at ones. This is not complicated although it may sound so at first.

 Many people already do these things or are taught them and don't find out until years later they are from the weapon forms.

 There are in general 2 ways to close the gap.Llet the other person come to you, generally the method people feel most comfortable with or attack in an aggressive manner as soon as your fighting range is entered. This is the method wing chun became known for but it is also the harder method to learn and do safely.


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## Jens (Jan 16, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> The weapons forms are not just a magic form that has use for weapons and nothing else. They contain the core crossing the gap and finding the bridge methods of wing chun fighting.
> 
> Anything you can do against a sword or a knife or a spear you can certainly do against an empty hand can't you?
> 
> The core points will give you 18 different ways to do this. Then you practice them either at the 6 gates or if your wing chun is like mine 9 gates. The methods will also teach you how to attack 2 gates at ones. This is not complicated although it may sound so at first.


 
so you are referring to 18 specific techniques from the weapons forms that can be used in empty hand fighting?

can you give some examples of how you attack aggressively to close the gap?


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## geezer (Jan 16, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> ...It doesn't matter because every legit family and all the different students of yip man that learned different versions of the weapons forms all share the same group of core points.
> 
> And it is the core points that you need to know and should be taught with in the first 6 months of training if you want people to actually be able to fight with wing chun against  trained fighters of other styles.



Sounds like a good topic for a new thread: "The core points of WC, the essentials that should be taught in the first six months". I'm all ears on this one. (No, I'm not being sarcastic either. If I sound that way it's just that the typical hostility towards any input on WC has predisposed us all to expect a negative response).


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## Nabakatsu (Jan 17, 2011)

All posts thanked I agree with, would love to see the ideas within become fulfilled!


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## Eric_H (Jan 18, 2011)

I used to think and ask about this a lot, and honestly never got a good answer.

These days I understand why.

Entry is dependent on Facing, Range and Leverage. HFY Wing Chun has a bridging layer called "Kiu Sao" which is about how to Enagage and Disengage (primarily using the forearm). It wasn't until I got most of the way through it that I understood that it was just a method to know how to pick apart someone else's structure and keep your own safe. With that in mind, I just calculate my entries on the fly these days. That said, I haven't been through the Bai Jong training yet, so I reserve the right to change my opinions later 

As for what's common to all WC - use your gate theory, own the centerline. As was already mentioned, use the vertical pieces too, distract high to hit 'em low, etc.


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## Eric_H (Jan 18, 2011)

Actually, this might be a fun exercise, anyone want to put up some pics of various fighting postures and we can discuss how we would break them down? Used to do that in class quite a bit in the old days.


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## mook jong man (Jan 18, 2011)

ok


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## cwk (Jan 19, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> ok



easy.
 turn off his ghetto blaster.


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## zepedawingchun (Jan 19, 2011)

mook jong man said:


> ok


 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 

Thanks.


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## Nabakatsu (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm starting to wonder where mook pulls all of these gifs and images out from!
I don't think I could have found something like that in a month.. 
I bet he's been waiting patiently to use that one for some time now..


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## hunt1 (Jan 19, 2011)

Jens said:


> so you are referring to 18 specific techniques from the weapons forms that can be used in empty hand fighting?
> 
> can you give some examples of how you attack aggressively to close the gap?




 Ok first have to start with what weapons teach. You can't sit and wait for a bladed attack to come to you. Blades are to dangerous and to fast even a cut on iside forearm can be fatal. You must go forward and meet it. Or receive what comes. Both weapons teach you to move forward to meet an attack. 

 Pole  gives you side position one arm forward . Knifes not side on 2 arms. Using pole form for example.In my wing chun the .5 move is bui because the other moves have both Yin and Yang uses. Bui is just yang. attack and finish only no Yin hence the .5 move.Also all moves end with bui in a fight. You tan to clear line then dart forward to finish,bui for example.

 Basic empty hand example.Your opponent facing you with a left lead. Basic boxing position. You in basic wing chun stance. You don't watch his hands. His hands don't matter you watch his body for any movement. Hands don't matter because you know what he wants to do with a jab, hit you in the face. So upon any motion or if you are in your range you move forward with right tan and right leg to close the distance as he is punching at you. Your tan will either intercept on inside or outside. Either way the tan opens a line, then that hand continues forward as a punch.Kicking also comes in here as well and can be the bui movement. Key is move into the attack ,open a line and continue through the opening.
 You can use any hand shape to do thing like this of course Jum ,gan pak bong etc. Best against a possible jab coming from lead hand tan wu bong lan. Other moves may put you in bad position if you end up on the wrong side. Jum is great on outside cutting toward center. Not good if lead jab turns out to be lead hook. your jum in now inside and has to change to tan and stepping into a lead hook not good.  Tan wu etc defend without changing no matter if lead jab or lead hook.

 Hope this helps. Cant come close to covering everything in a post.


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## mook jong man (Jan 19, 2011)

Nabakatsu said:


> I'm starting to wonder where mook pulls all of these gifs and images out from!
> I don't think I could have found something like that in a month..
> I bet he's been waiting patiently to use that one for some time now..


 
Ah young grasshopper , if only my Wing Chun was as formidable as my Google-Fu. 
And your correct I have been waiting to use that one for ages.


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## Jens (Jan 20, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> Or receive what comes.


when recieving what comes, do you also step forward to intercept or wait until the attack comes to you?



hunt1 said:


> Pole gives you side position one arm forward.


Ok, so you use the side pole punch like a jab in boxing



hunt1 said:


> Knifes not side on 2 arms.


what are the different stepping variations that you use from the knife set to step forward and intercept the opponent's attack?



hunt1 said:


> Basic empty hand example.Your opponent facing you with a left lead. Basic boxing position. You in basic wing chun stance. You don't watch his hands. His hands don't matter you watch his body for any movement. Hands don't matter because you know what he wants to do with a jab, hit you in the face. So upon any motion or if you are in your range you move forward with right tan and right leg to close the distance as he is punching at you. Your tan will either intercept on inside or outside. Either way the tan opens a line, then that hand continues forward as a punch.Kicking also comes in here as well and can be the bui movement. Key is move into the attack ,open a line and continue through the opening..


Is your tan to clear the line and punch done in one motion, or rapidly one after the other? 
when stepping forward to intercept, is your right leg on the inside or outside of the opponent's lead left leg? and are you square or turned 45 degree like in the knife advancing step?
also in the above situation would you ever step forward with your left leg lead on the inside of your opponent's left lead leg? and what's your reasoning?


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## hunt1 (Jan 27, 2011)

Jens, good questions but I hesitate to give any more detailed answers than already given as it may be counter productive for some.

 While in theory we all do wing chun with the same understanding and operational mechanics in practice this is not true.

 To illustrate I had certified sifu from Canada come visit for some advanced training. I knew and had spoken to this mans sifu many times on the phone. He seemed to have a good understanding of wing chun . I was surprised to find that his student did not have an understanding of the operational basics. I even took the visitor to train with my friend Phil and his students to give him the widest possible exposure to wing chun operation as possible. Phils wing chun is from a different source than mine but we share the same understandings. It is not a my way or the highway thing.

 So you see even someone that trains for years and years and teaches others may not actually have what I consider basics.
 With out touching your hands there is no way for me to know.

 The way I do wing chun is based on the basics I was taught and use. If you do not have the same foundation than doing things the way I do them may not work for you and even could work against you. I provided a general place to look for the information within the system. So look there and then apply things the way you have been taught to apply wing chun


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## geezer (Jan 27, 2011)

_Hunt_ makes a good point, and it's best to approach any online advice with caution. If you can't see it, feel it, and test it out.... how do you judge what's being said? That said, I sometimes think that so much emphasis is given to our differences that we forget to emphasize the fundamentals we share. "Good"... that is to say _effective_ WC shares certain fundamental traights, regardless of the branch or lineage. I hope to start a new thread on this topic when I've got a free moment.


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## Jens (Jan 27, 2011)

hunt1 said:


> Jens, good questions but I hesitate to give any more detailed answers than already given as it may be counter productive for some.
> 
> While in theory we all do wing chun with the same understanding and operational mechanics in practice this is not true.
> 
> ...


 
hunt1,

         Perhaps this man you speak of didn't have the proper charecter, so his sifu probably withweld key info from him. it's a common thing in martial arts you know. The other possiblity is that this man did not have the capacity to catch what the sifu was trying to impart to him.

Here is a post by David Peterson on this very topic
"I clearly recall Sifu telling the story that on one occasion after Bruce Lee returned to Hong Kong, he attempted his 'JKD' skills against Sigung Yip Man himself and was shut down instantly. As Sifu put it at the time he recounted the story, Bruce was so embarassed that he left without even taking his jacket off the hook by the doorway and it still hung there days later.

Ive also heard the tale of Yip man kicking Bruce Lee from one end of the room to the other. As I heard Bruce Lee said 'oh you didnt teach me that' to which yip man replied 'theres a lot I didnt teach you' 




I completely understand what you mean by things can work against you or become counter productive for some if they does not have the same foundation. After all the foundations in Yuen kay san, kulo, cho gar, yip man, pan nam, pao fa lien all  have different ideas of how the mechanics in their system works.


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## Shin71 (Jan 27, 2011)

Recently in sparring I have been using a low lead hand feint and follow it up with rear back-fist that is committed so it is either block or get hit (in theory).  After this I usually try and pull off a forward inside or outside drift to be in their blind spot long enough to press the attack or get some breathing room.


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## Nabakatsu (Jan 27, 2011)

In my recent sparring, I've been laying back, waiting for them to come to me, as soon as they move in, taking a step to be in range to hit me, I will crash in and destroy their balance and follow up with chain punches and kicks. until we reset, and than repeat.


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## mook jong man (Jan 27, 2011)

I do have to say that I do not believe throwing fakes or feints should be a part of the Wing Chun system.

In my opinion they violate several important principles and concepts relating to _DIRECTNESS , ECONOMY OF MOVEMENT , ENERGY CONSERVATION , AND NO WASTED MOVEMENT._

In responding to fakes or feints , as long as they are in range they should be treated as a real attack , if we practice our concept of _Lin Sil Die Dar_ (Simultaneous Counter Attack) then one hand should be reacting to deflect the perceived attack (be it real or fake) while the other hand punches the opponent in the head.

Having said that , it is also very important to stay very economical with your deflections and don't open up your defensive area too much , keep your arms in the proper angle , hands in the centre and only use enough movement to nullify the attack and no more.
That way if a mistake is made you have a much better chance of recovery than if your hands are all over the place.

So getting back to reacting to feints or fakes , whether the attack is real or fake , the outcome is the same , the opponent gets hit.

We only have to look at Chi Sau to provide an example of this , if we are engaged in Chi sau and you took your Fook Sau off my Tan Sau to throw a fake hook at my head , then I don't go chasing your hand all the way up to my head to stop it , on detecting the loss of contact I will strike straight through the centreline and hit you. 

You will only be vulnerable to fakes if you are passive , do not adhere to the concept of _simultaneous counter attack_ or go chasing hands all over the place.


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## yak sao (Jan 27, 2011)

Nabakatsu said:


> In my recent sparring, I've been laying back, waiting for them to come to me, as soon as they move in, taking a step to be in range to hit me, I will crash in and destroy their balance and follow up with chain punches and kicks. until we reset, and than repeat.


 

I think this is the best approach for WT/WC sparring. 
While sparring long, continuous rounds are good for building stamina, which in turn will build mental toughness, ie. fighting spirit, I believe it to be counterproductive to good WT skills development.
Sparring, with its give and take, I hit you, you hit me, is not how WT people should train.
Remember, we are a fighting system, and a real fight should be over in a matter of a few seconds, not in a few rounds.
When your opponent attacks, intercept, and dominate.....chain punch, kick, knees elbows, whatever presents itself. Go for 5 or 6 seconds and then reset.
It's important that your training partner resist during this 5 or 6 seconds, not simply throw his initial attack and then stand there and take a beating.
By having him resist, you will be developing real world sensitivity to use against a violent attack, not merely theoretical concepts developed during chi sau.

Also, don't always start from long range. Mix it up. Sometimes have your opponent start from boxing range, or right in your face. I know in a perfect world we would keep our opponent at range and intercept, but bad guys don't always cooperate. So vary the ranges and positions you start from.


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## mook jong man (Jan 28, 2011)

yak sao said:


> I think this is the best approach for WT/WC sparring.
> While sparring long, continuous rounds are good for building stamina, which in turn will build mental toughness, ie. fighting spirit, I believe it to be counterproductive to good WT skills development.
> *Sparring, with its give and take, I hit you, you hit me, is not how WT people should train.*
> Remember, we are a fighting system, and a real fight should be over in a matter of a few seconds, not in a few rounds.
> ...


 
Absolutely , the bits I put in bold I think are especially important.

When we are playing the role of the attacker with the group that I train , we aim for continuous attacking movement and combinations so that the guy playing the Wing Chun role must maintain his concentration for those five or six seconds it takes to get control of the situation and dominate.
He learns to recover from mistakes and make split second decisions on the fly.

Having the attacker throw one or two punches then back off and stand like a wax work figure allows the Wing Chun guy to regain composure and does nothing to replicate the stress and heightened sense of danger that we must learn to cope with in a real situation.


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## Poor Uke (Jan 28, 2011)

Nabakatsu said:


> In my recent sparring, I've been laying back, waiting for them to come to me, as soon as they move in, taking a step to be in range to hit me, I will crash in and destroy their balance and follow up with chain punches and kicks. until we reset, and than repeat.


 
Hows that working out for you?


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## hunt1 (Jan 28, 2011)

Perhaps this man you speak of didn't have the proper charecter, so his sifu probably withweld key info from him. it's a common thing in martial arts you know. The other possiblity is that this man did not have the capacity to catch what the sifu was trying to impart to him.
 

  Off the point I was trying to make but I doubt this was the case. Teacher always seemed a good guy. Only a crook and a moron would do something like this. Don't forget I am talking about basics, how to stand ,how to step, accept pressure,punch. Basic stuff.
 Only a crook and a jerk would take someones money for 5 years knowing he was teaching the guy garbage. He would be a moron because he certified the guy as a sifu to teach using his, the original teachers name as his source for his wing chun.  Who would do this knowing the guy would only embarrass and make him and his wing chun look like junk?

 It was just the case of  different operational understandings.

 As to withholding information. Anyone that takes a persons money and then withholds information is a crook or worse. When we are paid we have an obligation to teach the best way we can and if a student has a problem understanding or doing something it is our duty to provide him with an alternative way of doing it. When I have a problem getting through to a student I even take them to see another teacher if needed, Phil Romero in my case, to see if he can help.


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## Nabakatsu (Jan 28, 2011)

It's working out a hell of a lot better than the hand chasing, wana be kickboxing nonsense I was trying before


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## mook jong man (Jan 28, 2011)

This sort of ties in with performing your reflex training at different ranges as mentioned earlier by Yak Sao.

Note I don't use the term sparring because that to me denotes that both partners are using the same techniques , which as I have mentioned before I think is useless unless it is Chi Sau sparring.

I believe it is also important that sometimes you do this type of training to target certain skill sets , so sometimes we will do this reaction type training in different ways.


Wing Chun guy starts from hands down position.
Wing Chun guy only allowed to use kicks.
Wing Chun guy only allowed to use hands.
Wing Chun guy defends from kneeling position.
Wing Chun guy defends from seated in a chair position
Wing Chun guy defends only with one arm.
Wing Chun guy using hands and legs against attacker only using arms.
Wing Chun guy using hands and legs against attacker only using kicks
Wing Chun guy defends against attacker at close range while back against a wall.
Wing Chun guy defends random attack starting from eyes closed , at a verble go signal from attacker he is allowed to open eyes and defend.
Wing Chun guy defends against total random attack from kicks , strikes , grabs , tackles , and take downs.
Wing Chun guy must finish any sequence with elbow strike.
Wing Chun guy must finish any sequence with knee strike
Wing Chun guy must finish any sequence with finishing kick such as stamp kick , or close range hook kick.


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