# Firearm storage with children



## PhotonGuy (Jan 26, 2015)

I know that one of the issues if you keep firearms in the house is in regards to children, especially boy children. Even if you don't have children of your own you might have guests at your house who bring children with them. When it comes to firearm storage in such regards I think its just common sense. You store firearms the same way you would store anything else you wouldn't want unauthorized people to have access to. Medicine, you name it. And with firearms, if you ask me, unauthorized people shouldn't be just children, nobody but the owner should have access. Anyway, if you ever do have children in your house or even if you don't have children in your house common sense says you should keep firearms where they're inaccessible, keep them in a locked cabinet or safe. Also, you could make certain areas of your house off limits to children. That might not work so well if you have children of your own but if you ever have guests that bring children, that could be a good idea.


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## jks9199 (Jan 26, 2015)

Ideal safe storage for firearms, no matter the age of the people involved is simple.  Unloaded, and secured.  Ammunition secured separately.  Want to step it up?  Use gun locks, cases like the LifeJacket, or other means to individually secure the gun within a larger gun safe or cabinet.  Feeling really paranoid?

Of course, if you're keeping the gun around for home protection, we run into a problem.  Someone's breaking in, our gun is locked up in it's case, the ammo is locked up in a separate area, and by the time we get the two together... Oh, crap.  So, you have to strike a balance.  Biometric safes, combination safes, and like offer options to secure a loaded gun.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 26, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> Ideal safe storage for firearms, no matter the age of the people involved is simple.  Unloaded, and secured.  Ammunition secured separately.  Want to step it up?  Use gun locks, cases like the LifeJacket, or other means to individually secure the gun within a larger gun safe or cabinet.  Feeling really paranoid?
> 
> Of course, if you're keeping the gun around for home protection, we run into a problem.  Someone's breaking in, our gun is locked up in it's case, the ammo is locked up in a separate area, and by the time we get the two together... Oh, crap.  So, you have to strike a balance.  Biometric safes, combination safes, and like offer options to secure a loaded gun.



They do make pistol safes that are easily opened with the proper combination known by the owner and some might even read fingerprints but they are otherwise very secure. They are designed for keeping your defensive weapon while other weapons that you would use for other purposes, hunting, ect. you would use one of those big solid refrigerator sized safes and you would store ammo separately. 

As for gun locks such as chamber locks, I use those when traveling by airplane.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 26, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> Ideal safe storage for firearms, no matter the age of the people involved is simple.  Unloaded, and secured.  Ammunition secured separately.  Want to step it up?  Use gun locks, cases like the LifeJacket, or other means to individually secure the gun within a larger gun safe or cabinet.  Feeling really paranoid?
> 
> Of course, if you're keeping the gun around for home protection, we run into a problem.  Someone's breaking in, our gun is locked up in it's case, the ammo is locked up in a separate area, and by the time we get the two together... Oh, crap.  So, you have to strike a balance.  Biometric safes, combination safes, and like offer options to secure a loaded gun.



I safely store my loaded handgun every day. Just behind my right hip...

The bedside gun is locked in one of these. The lock isn't my favorite (I prefer the mechanical locks like this for ease of use in the dark) but it's the only bedside safe I could find that will work with a suppressed handgun. The other guns are in a room/safe built in under the stairs.


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## Danny T (Jan 26, 2015)

Safe and secure vs quick accessibility under high stress.
If you use a safe, practice accessing your weapon in the dark, and under as high a stress level as you are able. Have your spouse or significant other awaken you from deep sleep screaming. Practice, practice, practice.
Also teach your children and all in the home about the weapons. How to use them, when to use them, where to use them. Know your fields of fire and your fire lanes. Maintain accountability. 
Teach, practice, test under stress. Hold all accountable.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 27, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Also teach your children and all in the home about the weapons. How to use them, when to use them, where to use them. Know your fields of fire and your fire lanes. Maintain accountability.
> Teach, practice, test under stress. Hold all accountable.



That's great to teach your children about weapons, how to use them, and how to be safe with them, the problem is when they have friends over who find the weapons and decide to play with them.

Thats why you need secure storage, not just from children but from all unauthorized people.


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## PhotonGuy (Jan 27, 2015)

And speaking of proper precautions to take with firearms when theres children, I found this interesting video.
What Young Kids Do With Guns When Parents Aren t Around Video - ABC News
As you can see, its usually only boys and not girls that want to play with guns.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 27, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> That's great to teach your children about weapons, how to use them, and how to be safe with them, the problem is when they have friends over who find the weapons and decide to play with them.
> 
> Thats why you need secure storage, not just from children but from all unauthorized people.



For once you've posted something that makes sense. Congratulations!

Securing firearms isn't about stopping a thief. You cannot stop a determined thief. Securing firearms is simply to control access. Kids. Friends of kids. Dinner guests. Intruders looking to snatch and grab.


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## Kong Soo Do (Feb 2, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Safe and secure vs quick accessibility under high stress.
> If you use a safe, practice accessing your weapon in the dark, and under as high a stress level as you are able. Have your spouse or significant other awaken you from deep sleep screaming. Practice, practice, practice.
> Also teach your children and all in the home about the weapons. How to use them, when to use them, where to use them. Know your fields of fire and your fire lanes. Maintain accountability.
> Teach, practice, test under stress. Hold all accountable.



Excellent post.

The specific purpose of the firearm needs to be taken into account.  Hunting rifles for example, not something that is normally used on a daily basis (with exceptions of course).  These can be safety stored in a gun cabinet as immediate access isn't of paramount concern.  A defensive handgun or even a home defense shotgun is a different story.  This is something that you may need to immediately access while under extreme stress.  So storage options will differ.  As DD explains, a safe location for your firearm is on your person.  A night stand firearm can use one of those small, quick access safes but one needs to be extremely familiar with it's operation, in the dark and while under extreme stress.  Particularly if, as you mention, you're awakened from a deep sleep.  Just as importantly is know where in your home is safe/unsafe to fire a weapon. 

Many parts of the country require you to store the firearm unloaded with the ammunition stored in a separate location and additionally place many restrictions on the actual use of the firearm when you're threatened in your own home.  Compare the violent crime rate of these locations as compared to locations that don't require these standards. 

When my son was young I sat him down and explained all about my duty and off duty firearms.  I familiarized him with what a firearm was and what it could do.  I showed him how they operate and how to make them safe.  I also told him that if he ever wanted to see my firearm's all he needed to do was ask.  I recall perhaps two or three times over the years he came up and asked to see them.  We unloaded them together, we verified they were unloaded together and then he'd hold it for maybe 30 seconds and he'd be like, 'Okay thanks' and that was it.  Now I wouldn't have done this of course, but I could have left the loaded firearm on the coffee table and he'd would have paid as much attention to it as a coaster.  In otherwords I took the curiosity out of it.  Now that he is a young man he's fired all of my firearms, with the exception of the shotgun but including my rifles.  He's become a good shot. 

The media and those that are anti-gun put a lot of hate on firearms and firearm owners.  They are quick to point out one instance of tragedy put yet mention the millions of instances of responsible firearm ownership.  Is a firearm dangerous in the hands of an untrained child?  Of course it is.  So are the butter knives in the drawer that aren't locked up.  Train the child first and foremost and many issues are eliminated before they even have a chance to begin.  Too be quite honest, many 'children' are far more responsible handlers of firearms than 'adults'.


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## Tez3 (Feb 2, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> And speaking of proper precautions to take with firearms when theres children, I found this interesting video.
> What Young Kids Do With Guns When Parents Aren t Around Video - ABC News
> As you can see, its usually only boys and not girls that want to play with guns.




One video where they use boys doesn't make it a fact that girls aren't curious about weapons, please don't patronise women either by suggesting that weapons etc are just for the chaps, I think you'll find there are a good many female gun owners/users who will disagree with you strongly. Girls are every bit as curious as boys, some, jokingly some will say more so, so please don't go down the route of sexism here.


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## Danny T (Feb 2, 2015)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Excellent post.
> 
> The specific purpose of the firearm needs to be taken into account.  Hunting rifles for example, not something that is normally used on a daily basis (with exceptions of course).  These can be safety stored in a gun cabinet as immediate access isn't of paramount concern.  A defensive handgun or even a home defense shotgun is a different story.  This is something that you may need to immediately access while under extreme stress.  So storage options will differ.  As DD explains, a safe location for your firearm is on your person.  A night stand firearm can use one of those small, quick access safes but one needs to be extremely familiar with it's operation, in the dark and while under extreme stress.  Particularly if, as you mention, you're awakened from a deep sleep.  Just as importantly is know where in your home is safe/unsafe to fire a weapon.
> 
> ...



"...I took the curiosity out of it."
That is it right there. Did the same for my boys. From the time they were of the age 4 and up most any time they asked I took the time (and it was hard pressed often to take the time) to let them play with my firearms. We learned to load and unload, learned to chamber a round safely and un-chamber safely, we took bullets apart, we burned the power, we discharged the firing caps, we fired the weapons, we cleaned the weapons, and put them back in their particular safe spots. The only caveat I had anytime they wanted to touch a firearm was we went through our safety list first and the weapon had to be cleaned and oiled 'every time' they touched it prior to it being put away. Every time it was cleaned and oiled. Took the curiosity out quickly and as they grew in age they had firearms in their rooms. (no ammo & with locks) They policed their firearms and bladed weapons. Often overheard them giving their friends the speech of you touch it you clean it. 
Today my grandchildren have firearms and are being taught firearm usage and safety.
It is all in Teaching Them and holding them responsible to their actions.


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## Kong Soo Do (Feb 2, 2015)

It's funny how dynamics have changed in this country.  My grandfather had his own single shot .22 rifle when he was young, probably around 7 or 8 years old.  He grew up on a farm in Michigan and it was just a standard thing to go out plinking or squirrel hunting as a boy.  Time was a boy could have a pocket knife and carry it to school, in fact it was odd if you didn't have a pocket knife to whittle with during recess.  Nowadays they'd call SWAT if you carried a Swiss Army Knife to school. 

Too me this boils down to self reliance and personal responsibility.  My son has his own SAK on a keychain with a Fenix E05 flashlight, peanut lighter and whistle.  Just second nature to have some handy items in a pocket.  When he gets to the legal age to carry a concealed firearm he will do so, and he'll be well trained in the proper responsibilities of firearm ownership.


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## Steve (Feb 2, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Safe and secure vs quick accessibility under high stress.
> If you use a safe, practice accessing your weapon in the dark, and under as high a stress level as you are able. Have your spouse or significant other awaken you from deep sleep screaming. Practice, practice, practice.
> Also teach your children and all in the home about the weapons. How to use them, when to use them, where to use them. Know your fields of fire and your fire lanes. Maintain accountability.
> Teach, practice, test under stress. Hold all accountable.


 Excellent post.  Advice I've also been given that seems very reasonable is to make sure that everyone in the family, including any children at an appropriate age, take use of force training in addition to knowing the mechanics of using the firearms.   As a part of this, discuss the plan with everyone in the family so that no one is accidently shot during high stress situations.  I have in mind the situation where a cop (I believe) shot his teenage daughter when she was coming back in late at night.  She was sneaking around and he thought she was an intruder in the dark. 

A good friend of mind has a gun in pretty much every room of his house.  They're all the same kind and in the same kind of safe... one designed to hold a single hand gun, which he keeps loaded.   He also has a shot gun under his bed with some kind of trigger lock.


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## donald1 (Feb 2, 2015)

i dont have kids running around where i live so i dont have this problem but if i did i would want them
-out of site(kids cant see them, dont know where they are)
-out of reach(even if they could find them they still cant get to them yet still within my own reach)
-locked safe


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## SteyrAUG (Jul 13, 2015)

As a person who daily carries, it would be a LOT of effort to load and unload my carry weapon every day. Also additional opportunity for Murphy to get to work. I prefer to put my "know it is loaded" handgun on the top shelf of the safe and grab my "know it is loaded" handgun from the same location when I leave.

I verify the "loaded" status before I holster just to make sure I have one in the chamber. The only time I unload is on the weekend when I give everything a wipe down.

As for kids, education is the best prevention. I had my first handgun at the age of 8. It was kept in my room, in my gun cabinet and I had ammo for it. I knew how guns worked, I knew the rules of gun safety and I never had a problem. Of course I'm not sure I'd recommend the same for every 8 year old I've ever met. In fact I know some adults that aren't terribly responsible when it comes to firearms.


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## PhotonGuy (Jul 16, 2015)

SteyrAUG said:


> As a person who daily carries, it would be a LOT of effort to load and unload my carry weapon every day. Also additional opportunity for Murphy to get to work. I prefer to put my "know it is loaded" handgun on the top shelf of the safe and grab my "know it is loaded" handgun from the same location when I leave.
> 
> I verify the "loaded" status before I holster just to make sure I have one in the chamber. The only time I unload is on the weekend when I give everything a wipe down.


They do make the small safes which are large enough to hold a handgun and some magazines or speed loaders. They can be quickly opened with a button pushing combo and they're meant for storing your loaded defensive firearm. I don't know if you've considered this as you're system seems to work fine. The only problem I would have with storing a loaded gun in a larger safe where I've got a set of firearms, even if I put it in a separate designated area such as the top shelf, is that those safes often take too long to open so you don't have as immediate access to your weapon.



SteyrAUG said:


> As for kids, education is the best prevention. I had my first handgun at the age of 8. It was kept in my room, in my gun cabinet and I had ammo for it. I knew how guns worked, I knew the rules of gun safety and I never had a problem. Of course I'm not sure I'd recommend the same for every 8 year old I've ever met. In fact I know some adults that aren't terribly responsible when it comes to firearms.



Yes I agree education is the best prevention. Unfortunately most children aren't getting good education with firearms. A person should start keeping their own gun(s) when they're ready. Although this would be highly unusual in this day and age maybe you were ready at 8. Some people are never ready.


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 10, 2015)

Kong Soo Do said:


> When my son was young I sat him down and explained all about my duty and off duty firearms. I familiarized him with what a firearm was and what it could do. I showed him how they operate and how to make them safe. I also told him that if he ever wanted to see my firearm's all he needed to do was ask. I recall perhaps two or three times over the years he came up and asked to see them. We unloaded them together, we verified they were unloaded together and then he'd hold it for maybe 30 seconds and he'd be like, 'Okay thanks' and that was it.


Great way to do it.  Same thing my dad did for me, and I've done for my boys.  I still keep my quick access sidearm near the bed in a small safe and another in a different part of the house similarly secured, since my youngest is still too young to keep a loaded gun unsecured.  
The down side to most of the bedside safes are thin metal construction which can be popped open with a screwdriver and a bit of force.  The big 3000# safe is where I keep the expensive stuff.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 10, 2015)

GiYu - Todd said:


> Great way to do it.  Same thing my dad did for me, and I've done for my boys.  I still keep my quick access sidearm near the bed in a small safe and another in a different part of the house similarly secured, since my youngest is still too young to keep a loaded gun unsecured.
> The down side to most of the bedside safes are thin metal construction which can be popped open with a screwdriver and a bit of force.  The big 3000# safe is where I keep the expensive stuff.



And the big one can be opened just as easily, with a crowbar and a bit of force. No typical home safe is going to stop a determined thief. They're going to stop a kid, or an opportunist. That's it.


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 10, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> And the big one can be opened just as easily, with a crowbar and a bit of force. No typical home safe is going to stop a determined thief. They're going to stop a kid, or an opportunist. That's it.


True.  That's the main purpose of any safe... to slow down and/or discourage a thief.  My big one is relatively high-end, and should thwart most burglars, unless they knew it was there and came prepared.  Although, they may opt to return another day to give it a try with better equipment.  Despite the size, it is hidden well enough that it might be missed.
The bedside safe is more to keep the kids (mine or visitors) out than to prevent burglary.  It allows relatively quick access.  The gun is stored loaded and chambered in case I need it fast.  A burglar would most likely find the safe and be able to easily defeat it without prior knowledge or special equipment.  Hopefully, if I'm not at home, my sidearm is travelling with me anyway.
Growing up, my dad had several loaded firearms around the house, and just trained us well.  We never had any issues with them.  I've opted to lock mine up.  My oldest is 9 and started shooting when he was 5.  My youngest is 4 1/2... not quite ready yet.
Overall, each person must make the tradeoff between accessibility and security, based on their children's maturity and a host of other factors. 
On a related note, I keep my cutting blades stored about the same way.  Expensive blades share the big safe with the nicer guns.  The ones not locked away are stored high on a rack to keep the boys from playing with them.


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## Tez3 (Sep 10, 2015)

Keeping the guns out and the children in a safe would solve many problems not just the 'gun' one,


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## ballen0351 (Sep 10, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Keeping the guns out and the children in a safe would solve many problems not just the 'gun' one,


Truth


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## GiYu - Todd (Sep 11, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Keeping the guns out and the children in a safe would solve many problems not just the 'gun' one,


If only the wife would allow it.


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## Kong Soo Do (Sep 19, 2015)

It all boils down to responsible ownership.  Part of that responsibility is appropriate personal use and the proper training of others.  And things need to be put into perspective;  by far, more people are killed by the improper use of a motor vehicle (reckless driving, aggressive driving, excessive speed for the conditions, being under the influence and texting as examples) than are killed by the improper use of a firearm.  Additionally, firearms related deaths are often misrepresented.  If for example (just picking a number) 2000 people were killed in a given year by firearm, that number is often used with the agenda of making it seem it's children shooting children or gang violence or whatever the person/group is trying to skew the numbers towards.  Quite often, the number also includes police action shooting and private citizens lawfully defending themselves.  Yet those lawful shootings are lumped into 'gun violence'.

Additionally, there have been multiple accounts of a child or young adult successfully defending themselves with a firearm.  In most cases, an adult who was a responsible owner trained the child/young adult in the proper use of firearms and they later used a firearm to defend themselves.  Usually during a home invasion situation.  It depends upon the situation of course and it will vary from family to family.  As mentioned earlier, my grandfather (and my father) had their own .22 rifles at around the age of 8 and often went out hunting with them.  That was the norm.  I still have my grandfathers single-shot .22 rifle (Winchester 1902).  I recently gave my son a Hi-Point 995TS 9mm Carbine.  He also has his own .22 rifle, a Marlin 60.  He is quite proficient with both as well as my off-duty handguns which he has access to if needed.  He treats them with respect as he would a hammer or screwdriver or any other such tool. 

We were recently discussing the situation in Detroit on the SEP board.  I'll link to it and if you're interested, post #6 has some interesting statistics and a link to the full article.

Packing heat in Detroit: Motown residents answer police chief's call to arms


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