# US Catholic Bishops Forbid Reiki



## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

NOTE: Just passing this along as FYI for other practicing Catholics like myself.  Not sure I agree with it, but there it is.

http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-067.shtml



> "Since Reiki therapy is not compatible with either Christian teaching or scientific evidence, it would be inappropriate for Catholic institutions, such as Catholic health care facilities and retreat centers, or persons representing the Church, such as Catholic chaplains, to promote or to provide support for Reiki therapy," the Guidelines said.



http://www.usccb.org/dpp/Evaluation_Guidelines_finaltext_2009-03.pdf


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## Nolerama (Apr 1, 2009)

I can understand why they wouldn't want to promote Reiki, but I can also note the hypocrisy in the article, frequently citing Reiki as having no base in natural science, but then turning right around and implying that if Reiki's alleged powers aren't from natural science, it must have spiritual properties (that don't comply with the Church).

That's pretty funny. It's like damning anything that gives anyone some sort of spiritual salvation. I get a lot of spirituality in physical activity. Should MAs, running, cycling, etc also be banned from the Church? Yes, there's a basis in natural science for physical activity (i.e. endorphin/adrenaline rush) but there's also a spiritual one...

Just thought about this: I'm interpreting this article as the Catholic Church saying something like "Don't believe in Aliens, because the last time they visited, they took away some of our parishoners."

I mean, come on. Churches everywhere: The People are more educated and literate than ever. We don't need dictation in our daily lives.

Besides.... If Mr. Miyagi could heal Daniel-san with Reiki, then it HAS to be real.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 1, 2009)

Religion is for controlling people with rigid dogma and FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt).

I'll stick with faith.


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## arnisador (Apr 1, 2009)

I see the hypocrisy (and the control) too. The complaint is that Reiki rejects science in a different way than their religion rejects science. Sheesh!


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Well, yes.  Not to say that I do not see the hypocrisy you do, but try to remember, the Catholic Church holds itself out as the True Church.  That means that Catholic spiritual belief is real; others are not.  They are saying what should be patently clear - they don't accept spiritual solutions to problems that are not Catholic spiritual solutions.  I wouldn't expect any organization that claimed spiritual truth to recognize or accept the spiritual truth of a different faith.

The Catholic Church is not the Unitarians.  They don't believe "I'm OK, you're OK."  While they try to reach understanding and reconciliation with other faiths and Christian denominations, they also believe that those of other other beliefs are, well, wrong.

Speaking for myself, I do see the hypocrisy you do.  Speaking as a Catholic, I understand and appreciate that my Church has a set of codes that make it clear what is right and what is wrong.  I myself did not know much about Reiki.  I thought it was just a form of ki flow manipulation and did not realize it had a spiritual element to it.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 1, 2009)

:lol:


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## Empty Hands (Apr 1, 2009)

This from the same set of jokers who just told us that condoms don't protect you from AIDS, and in fact make it worse.  I wouldn't trust them to tell me that water was wet or the sky was blue if I thought if had a bearing on their dogma.

After all that, I basically agree that reiki has no scientific backing, and has no place being offered in evidence based medicine.


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## Thesemindz (Apr 1, 2009)

Yah, the aids and condoms things was kinda sad.

But that aside, I don't see why they would have a problem with Reiki except because they want to have a complete monopoly on everything. If they could have a monopoloy on science, they would, and in fact, they did for hundreds of years.

I don't know if Reiki works or not. I'd like to be shown evidence of it. If it does work, I wish we could spread it's teachings. Why wouldn't we want more healing in the world? But all that aside, this is just more sad narrow minded monopolism on the part of the catholic organization. 

Imagine what the world would be like if the news story read, "Catholic Church embraces Reiki healing in order to bring health and happiness to people all over the world."

I bet that would put butts in the seats.


-Rob


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> Imagine what the world would be like if the news story read, "Catholic Church embraces Reiki healing in order to bring health and happiness to people all over the world."
> 
> I bet that would put butts in the seats.



Well, sure.

But that is kind of against the point, isn't it?  The Catholic Church isn't Wal-Mart, willing to sell you whatever you want to buy.  They represent what they say is the only truth - take it or leave it.  They're really not all that interested in making converts by ameliorating their stance on various issues.


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## Thesemindz (Apr 1, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Well, sure.
> 
> But that is kind of against the point, isn't it? The Catholic Church isn't Wal-Mart, willing to sell you whatever you want to buy. They represent what they say is the only truth - take it or leave it. They're really not all that interested in making converts by ameliorating their stance on various issues.


 
I understand that. But I'm also a practicing christian who doesn't have any problem with Reiki healing, although like I said I'm not yet convinced it actually works.

Does the catholic church teach that all blessings come from God? If they do, then denying a healing force because they don't understand it would seem to imply that it is not a positive thing.

I don't think Reiki healing _has_ to be contrary to Catholic beliefs. I think they are _choosing_ to be contrary to it.


-Rob


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> I understand that. But I'm also a practicing christian who doesn't have any problem with Reiki healing, although like I said I'm not yet convinced it actually works.
> 
> Does the catholic church teach that all blessings come from God? If they do, then denying a healing force because they don't understand it would seem to imply that it is not a positive thing.
> 
> ...



The Catholic Church teaches that either something is based on a scientific principle, which can be demonstrated, or it is spiritual, meaning it comes from God.  If it is supernatural and does not come from God (the Catholic concept of God), then it is satanic.  All non-Christian supernatural healing is seen that way.  Either it is a miracle of God, or it is evil.

I think the only way the Catholic Church could NOT be contrary to Catholic dogma is if Reiki stated that the 'force' they claim to manipulate was heaven-sent in answer to Christian prayer.  If it is instead like 'The Force', it isn't from God - it's about the only way they CAN see it.


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## Thesemindz (Apr 1, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The Catholic Church teaches that either something is based on a scientific principle, which can be demonstrated, or it is spiritual, meaning it comes from God. If it is supernatural and does not come from God (the Catholic concept of God), then it is satanic. All non-Christian supernatural healing is seen that way. Either it is a miracle of God, or it is evil.
> 
> I think the only way the Catholic Church could NOT be contrary to Catholic dogma is if Reiki stated that the 'force' they claim to manipulate was heaven-sent in answer to Christian prayer. If it is instead like 'The Force', it isn't from God - it's about the only way they CAN see it.


 
Well Bill, I don't want to get into insulting your religion. I respect that you have a belief system and whether or not you agree with the church, you are defending their right to their position.

I don't agree with their position. If it exists, than just because we can't explain it scientifically _now_ doesn't mean we will never be able to, or that our lack of understanding invalidates the practice. By that logic, horseless carriages and indoor plumbing would have been the work of the devil at one point as well.

But like I said, I don't want this to come off as a Catholic bashing thing. I respect you, and I respect that you have beliefs as part of a larger organization. Just because I don't share your beliefs doesn't mean I don't respect your right to them.


-Rob


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## Ninjamom (Apr 1, 2009)

Are you guys reading the same article that I am? I didn't see anywhere in the article where the Catholic church either forbade Reiki or called it demonic. They did say that it had no basis in science (which is true) and that it had no basis in the Catholic faith (which is also true). The Bishops said that it is of dubious value (again, true) and that therefore it is not something appropriate for churches to support. I took this as guidance as to whether or not a Reiki class would be a 'good thing' for a local Parish to offer for the community, and I took the answer as 'No", and nothing more than that.

I am not a practicing Roman Catholic. I do not personally agree with many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. However, I don't see a single thing hypocritical about the Bishops' stand at all. If Reiki is of dubious value and not supported by faith or science, then why should they support it? In fact, if it turned out that Reiki was contrary to science and/or contrary to good faith, then I would say they would have a _responsibility_ to oppose it actively (although I didn't read anything in the article to suggest they were going that far).

Personally I think some folks read bigotry and hypocrisy into the article because these things fit in with their preconceived stereotypes of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.


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## CoryKS (Apr 1, 2009)

Hmm... if only there was a word to describe Christians who believe that the final word on religious topics doesn't come from the Church.


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## Thesemindz (Apr 1, 2009)

Ninjamom said:


> Are you guys reading the same article that I am? I didn't see anywhere in the article where the Catholic church either forbade Reiki or called it demonic. They did say that it had no basis in science (which is true) and that it had no basis in the Catholic faith (which is also true). The Bishops said that it is of dubious value (again, true) and that therefore it is not something appropriate for churches to support. I took this as guidance as to whether or not a Reiki class would be a 'good thing' for a local Parish to offer for the community, and I took the answer as 'No", and nothing more than that.
> 
> I am not a practicing Roman Catholic. I do not personally agree with many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. However, I don't see a single thing hypocritical about the Bishops' stand at all. If Reiki is of dubious value and not supported by faith or science, then why should they support it? In fact, if it turned out that Reiki was contrary to science and/or contrary to good faith, then I would say they would have a _responsibility_ to oppose it actively (although I didn't read anything in the article to suggest they were going that far).
> 
> Personally I think some folks read bigotry and hypocrisy into the article because these things fit in with their preconceived stereotypes of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.


 
I wasn't reffering specifically to the article during the back and forth between Bill and I, rather I was responding to his statements.

I would agree that if Reiki is of dubious nature and quality then those who feel a responsiblity for the guidance of others should at least be cautious of it, if not generally opposed. I'm just seperating opposition based on informed caution versus opposition based on dogma.


-Rob


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## Thesemindz (Apr 1, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Hmm... if only there was a word to describe Christians who believe that the final word on religious topics doesn't come from the Church.


 
There are many words for those of us who feel that way.

I still tend to call myself a Christian, because regardless of the meaning of the word to others, I know what it means to me.


-Rob


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 1, 2009)

Ninjamom said:


> Are you guys reading the same article that I am? I didn't see anywhere in the article where the Catholic church either forbade Reiki or called it demonic.



If I gave that impression, I apologize.  The Catholic Church didn't say those two things, I did.  However, with justification.  The question of Reiki came up because pastors were being asked about it by parishioners and did not know what to answer, or they did not have an authority on which to hang their answer.  So now they do - thus, 'forbade'.  Second, the Church has long held that either something is based on science, or it is from God.  If it is supernatural and NOT from God, then it is by definition, Satanic or demonic.  The Church's position has always been that there are no 'good' or even 'neutral' powers that do not come from God.  If supernatural power exists that God did not create, it is evil.  Whenever supernatural or 'magic' powers are shown in the Bible, either God gave them, or they were demonic.


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## CoryKS (Apr 1, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> There are many words for those of us who feel that way.
> 
> I still tend to call myself a Christian, because regardless of the meaning of the word to others, I know what it means to me.
> 
> ...


 
I was thinking of one word in particular.

The point is: if you're not a practicing Catholic, why care about what the Catholic Church says about Reiki, condoms or whatever?  It's like freaking out because Islam forbids eating bacon.  I'm not a Muslim, so it has no bearing on my life.  Bill said right at the top of the OP that he was posting it as an FYI to "other practicing Catholics".


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Apr 1, 2009)

> "Since Reiki therapy is not compatible with either Christian teaching or scientific evidence, it would be inappropriate for Catholic institutions, such as Catholic health care facilities and retreat centers, or persons representing the Church, such as Catholic chaplains, to promote or to provide support for Reiki therapy," the Guidelines said.


 
Mikao Usui was a lay Tendai priest. Some say his Jumon(magic spells) are Shinto and Tendai in orgin. I guess his In or Ingei(Hand murdra)comes from Tendai sect or a Shinto maybe even a mixture of the two.

So I can understand another religion. The Kanji Rei &#38666; is read as ghost however it can be read as spirit. &#38728; The Hanzi(Chinese)Ling I think is read as Supernatural/spirit and differs from ghost which is read &#39740; Gui.

I don't know if Reiki practicers channels spirits thru them to act in their healing.


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## shesulsa (Apr 1, 2009)

Reiki has also been argued as a re-invention or remoderned seichim-sekhem (Egyptian) which was supposedly used by Jesus to perform His miracles, as it is supposed to channel the Holy Spirit itself.

You know, part of the Holy Trinity.


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## Andy Moynihan (Apr 2, 2009)

Never mind. If you can't say something nice............


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## Indagator (Oct 26, 2010)

FWIW, it doesn't actually appear that the guideline is specifically banning the laity from receiving Reiki treatment from those versed in its practices. It seems rather to be suggesting that the administrative facilities of the clerical institution feel it inappropriate to assimilate Reiki into their own practices within their own health care programs &c.

As somebody else mentioned, it only affects the Catholic amongst us, anyway.


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## Sensei Payne (May 9, 2011)

I really just don't think that this panal of Bishops have been expalined how Reiki works...Its not super natural, its about energy flow, and thats the basis for Eastern medicine, which has been practiced longer than Christianity.

In fact, Reiki is taught at my Certified Massage Therapy School in Louisville Kentucky. Its actually a requirement to get licenced! I might wanna add that Kentucky has really strict laws with Massage, and the schools only teach what is necessary per the Licencing test.

I really think that this view that the Catholic Church has on this subject is dated. Being Catholic myself, I know that a lot of the "political" policies usually are. There are a lot of studies being done on Reiki and several other Easter Medicine Practices. Heck, Massage Therapy didn't get any legitimacy till the World Wars, because it was easier to keep soliders in the war by having them see a massage therapist instead of sending them stateside and have several tests and specialist seen to fix a minor problem. 

Point is let it be Reiki, Accupuncture, or even massage, nothing will be made "mainstream" until there is a dollar amount being put on it and it can be marketed to the people. Its happened in Western Medicene, Massage Therapy, and eventually Eastern Medicenes will become a piece of the pie...but until then...the Catholic Higher ups will approach with Caution, but will eventually warm up to the idea.


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## JohnEdward (May 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Well, yes.  Not to say that I do not see the hypocrisy you do, but try to remember, the Catholic Church holds itself out as the True Church.  That means that Catholic spiritual belief is real; others are not.  They are saying what should be patently clear - they don't accept spiritual solutions to problems that are not Catholic spiritual solutions.  I wouldn't expect any organization that claimed spiritual truth to recognize or accept the spiritual truth of a different faith.
> 
> The Catholic Church is not the Unitarians.  They don't believe "I'm OK, you're OK."  While they try to reach understanding and reconciliation with other faiths and Christian denominations, they also believe that those of other other beliefs are, well, wrong.
> 
> Speaking for myself, I do see the hypocrisy you do.  Speaking as a Catholic, I understand and appreciate that my Church has a set of codes that make it clear what is right and what is wrong.  I myself did not know much about Reiki.  I thought it was just a form of ki flow manipulation and did not realize it had a spiritual element to it.



May I jump in, not to be rude, just I have a question. I am not Catholic nor anti-Catholic. I is hillbilly neutral here. I go to hockey games with a friend who is a Catholic Chaplin, and another who is a Brother. Neither of them are interested in martial arts. I have some understanding of how the Catholic Church sees things, absent of the hypocrisy perspective, the Catholic Church has a huge mystic element to it outside of what is presented in the bible that has existed for centuries. Which is similar or identical mystically to that of other non-Christian practices and cultures. In terms of the last 20 years, the Church has shifted its view toward more accepting science in some areas that has displacing some traditional mystic beliefs. Would  Reiki be accepted if there was an association to God, like a miracle preformed by a priest healing someone, paralleling to the acts of Jesus, or the defeating of the Devil or demons such as an exorcism to be accepted?  Or is it simply cultural prejudice or priority issue by the Church that like science in time be accepted?  A delicate issue, am solely interested in understand and broadening my horizons. Thanks.


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## K-man (May 9, 2011)

Mmmm. Reiki massage, no scientific basis. Laying on of hands for healing ????? Love to see the scientific data to back that.

I note that they haven't spoken out against homeopathy. That has even less scientific evidence to offer! Then there are still those about who believe in fairies. :asian:


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## ATACX GYM (May 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> NOTE: Just passing this along as FYI for other practicing Catholics like myself. Not sure I agree with it, but there it is.
> 
> http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-067.shtml
> 
> ...


 

Somehow...I'm not surprised. I think Reiki has its place,and is helpful.


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## ATACX GYM (May 9, 2011)

K-man said:


> Mmmm. Reiki massage, no scientific basis. Laying on of hands for healing ????? Love to see the scientific data to back that.
> 
> I note that they haven't spoken out against homeopathy. That has even less scientific evidence to offer! Then there are still those about who believe in fairies. :asian:


 

^^^BANG!! Well said.


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## fangjian (May 9, 2011)

Ninjamom said:


> I am not a practicing Roman Catholic. I do not personally agree with many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. However, I don't see a single thing hypocritical about the Bishops' stand at all. If Reiki is of dubious value and not supported by faith or science, then why should they support it? In fact, if it turned out that Reiki was contrary to science and/or contrary to good faith, then I would say they would have a _responsibility_ to oppose it actively (although I didn't read anything in the article to suggest they were going that far).
> 
> Personally I think some folks read bigotry and hypocrisy into the article because these things fit in with their preconceived stereotypes of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.



Yes. The position that Reiki is, so far, pseudoscience, is a correct one. They were right. But hearing it from them, is like hearing it from a Homeopath. It's hypocrisy, because Christianity itself is pseudoscience. It *is* hypocritical of them. Especially when the article started talking about there own brand of mythological healing, prayer. lolz


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## Master Dan (May 9, 2011)

Nolerama said:


> I can understand why they wouldn't want to promote Reiki, but I can also note the hypocrisy in the article, frequently citing Reiki as having no base in natural science, but then turning right around and implying that if Reiki's alleged powers aren't from natural science, it must have spiritual properties (that don't comply with the Church).
> 
> That's pretty funny. It's like damning anything that gives anyone some sort of spiritual salvation. I get a lot of spirituality in physical activity. Should MAs, running, cycling, etc also be banned from the Church? Yes, there's a basis in natural science for physical activity (i.e. endorphin/adrenaline rush) but there's also a spiritual one...
> 
> ...


 
Priest Craft which is what Catholoism is all about is a business not a religion and it is about eliminating competition.

Gee they could not do something more productive about controling all the rape, molestations and fathering children?? Up here they have paid out $200 million in settlements due to the founding Jesuit who built our radio station on video tape stated he was called to be the Lover of the World and to father as many children as possible raping Eskimo women he was not alone Boys were raped as well by his other priests. Sad to say when these poor people get thier blood money they kill themselves and others drinking? 

Watch HBO it sums up the church pretty good


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## ganglian (May 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> NOTE: Just passing this along as FYI for other practicing Catholics like myself.  Not sure I agree with it, but there it is.
> 
> http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-067.shtml
> 
> ...




As a non catholic, forgive me if I fail to lose sleep over this.


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## K-man (May 9, 2011)

Master Dan said:


> Priest Craft which is what Catholicism is all about is a business not a religion and it is about eliminating competition.
> 
> Gee they could not do something more productive about controling all the rape, molestations and fathering children?? Up here they have paid out $200 million in settlements due to the founding Jesuit who built our radio station on video tape stated he was called to be the Lover of the World and to father as many children as possible raping Eskimo women he was not alone Boys were raped as well by his other priests. Sad to say when these poor people get thier blood money they kill themselves and others drinking?
> 
> Watch HBO it sums up the church pretty good


Interesting that yesterday, in the paper, there was an article on that featuring the local priest from my area some years back. He was very popular with his parishioners but obviously he was more interested in the children! I thought he was cool. He brought me a bottle of wine every so often. Seemed like a good bloke at the time.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/church-acts-to-defrock-all-paedophile-priests-20110508-1eebo.html

I'd like to see the scientific studies that show celibacy in the priesthood is working well!      :shrug:


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## Sensei Payne (May 23, 2011)

Being a catholic male, and grew up around priest..I can honestly say that I have never been abused by a priest...

Although i know it happens..its not something that happens with all Priests.

That being said the topic of this thread isn't about the sexual misconduct of a few priests, instead on why the catholic church doesn't Condone Reiki.

I asked my Massage therapy instructor what he could think of, also he being a Catholic Man, why they wouldn't allow it. He told me that since its about energy. Energy that exisits outside of Jesus Christ.

Makes no sense to either one of us.


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## Indagator (May 27, 2011)

K-man said:


> Interesting that yesterday, in the paper, there was an article on that featuring the local priest from my area some years back. He was very popular with his parishioners but obviously he was more interested in the children! I thought he was cool. He brought me a bottle of wine every so often. Seemed like a good bloke at the time.
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/church-acts-to-defrock-all-paedophile-priests-20110508-1eebo.html
> 
> I'd like to see the scientific studies that show celibacy in the priesthood is working well! :shrug:


 
In all honesty, I have done a lot of research into much of this subject matter. For the most part, it worked perfectly fine up until the Second Vatican Council. The changes brought therein, and from what I have seen the evidence highlight in particular especially the removal of homosexuality from the list of impediments to the priesthood, have resulted in what we see today.

Furthermore, there has been evidence of organised sects of infiltrators within the Catholic priesthood, some of whom were involved in large-scale operations including pedophilia rings. This is referred to in detail in the factual book "Windswept house" by Fr Malachi Martin.

And interestingly enough, there is a statistic no non-Catholic I have ever met has been able to accept. I doubt any ever will but I shall present it here.
Statistically, secular school teachers are responsible for more than 100 times the peterasty that Catholic clergy have committed.
This means it is 100 times more likely for a schoolteacher to abuse a child than a priest.
That being said, I do not allow my children around any Novus Ordo priests as none of them can truly be said to be Catholic.

FWIW there has never been a single case of peterasty by the priests of the Society of St Pius X, who are the only priestly order to truly maintain Catholicity as it should be - completely free of the errors of Vatican II.


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## Indagator (May 27, 2011)

Forgot to add:

K-man can you please demonstrate arguments in support of these statements which you have made?

1. Please show where Catholic doctrine advocates, supports or condones peterasty?

Remember Mohammed married a 5 year old and consummated the marriage when she was 9, which is an openly discussed fact within Islam so therefore there would be no reason for Catholics to conceal their doctrine which you claim they use to support such practices.

2. Please show how celibacy is the problem in Catholicism, as opposed to the celibacy found in other, more "acceptable" religions such as Eastern religions?

3. The local priest from your area, whom you accuse of attempting to seduce you by intoxicating you with alcohol, was he Novus Ordo or Tridentine?

Thanks.

Look forward to your responses.


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## dbell (May 29, 2011)

Indagator said:


> FWIW there has never been a single case of peterasty by the priests of the Society of St Pius X, who are the only priestly order to truly maintain Catholicity as it should be - completely free of the errors of Vatican II.



I gave you thinks for your comment about other organizations being more prone to having sexual abuse than Catholic Priest, however I must disagree with you on this statement.

In that the Pope, the Vicor of Christ, approved and "stamped" the findings and rulings of Vatican II, stating that there were errors in the results takes the Society of St. Pius X out of communion with the Catholic Church if they are not following the changes decreed in those proceedings.

While I don't agree with many of the findings of Vatican II, the results of that Council are now infolded into the Church are are part of the Church.  Our current Pope and his Cardinals are making changes to those rulings and bringing back some of the pre-Vatican II processes, but unless he changes them all, the Society is out of communion with the Church in some levels if they call the Vatican II findings to be in error.


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## shesulsa (May 29, 2011)

Sensei Payne said:


> I really just don't think that this panal of Bishops have been expalined how Reiki works...Its not super natural, its about energy flow, and thats the basis for Eastern medicine, which has been practiced longer than Christianity.
> 
> In fact, Reiki is taught at my Certified Massage Therapy School in Louisville Kentucky. Its actually a requirement to get licenced! I might wanna add that Kentucky has really strict laws with Massage, and the schools only teach what is necessary per the Licencing test.



I find this fascinating because Reiki has absolutely nothing to do with massage whatsoever. While there are hand positions for the hands-on type of reiki, physical contact is not only not required but is not the core of reiki.  

Most of the reiki practitioners I know believe that The Healing Energy is The Life Force also known as The Holy Spirit. It is only with the will of God, the blessing of the Christ and the movement of The Holy Spirit that any healing (like that which Jesus conducted and called upon his disciples to engage in) through faith can occur.  Everything else is ... well, likely not of The Holy Spirit and therefore invalid or potentially dangerous.



JohnEdward said:


> May I jump in, not to be rude, just I have a question. I am not Catholic nor anti-Catholic. I is hillbilly neutral here. I go to hockey games with a friend who is a Catholic Chaplin, and another who is a Brother. Neither of them are interested in martial arts. I have some understanding of how the Catholic Church sees things, absent of the hypocrisy perspective, the Catholic Church has a huge mystic element to it outside of what is presented in the bible that has existed for centuries. Which is similar or identical mystically to that of other non-Christian practices and cultures. In terms of the last 20 years, the Church has shifted its view toward more accepting science in some areas that has displacing some traditional mystic beliefs. Would  Reiki be accepted if there was an association to God, like a miracle preformed by a priest healing someone, paralleling to the acts of Jesus, or the defeating of the Devil or demons such as an exorcism to be accepted?  Or is it simply cultural prejudice or priority issue by the Church that like science in time be accepted?  A delicate issue, am solely interested in understand and broadening my horizons. Thanks.



The best, most effectual reiki practitioners I know DO associate the healing practice with spiritual health. Essentially - if you are not calling upon the Holy Spirit and *asking* for a person to be healed as is God's will through Jesus Christ His son, you are not effectuating true healing.

:idunno:

There is a lot of bastardized reiki instruction out there and without Divine Protection you can render a person helpless and vulnerable to negative attack.  

Reiki Theory a la carte.

:asian:

Given that we, as disciples and followers of Christ (not Catholic here) have been instructed by the Master to heal in his name - in fact that any man with the faith of a gnat can do these deeds - it only makes sense that each Christian use their individual talents and gifts to effectuate love and healing in the world with the Holy Spirit.  

Much like it was said, "Kung-fu in all things and in all things Kung-fu," many spiritual gurus and masters have reminded us "Love in all things and in all things love."  

THIS is the Christian way as it was intended by ... jeez ... almost ANY interpretation of the Bible's New Testament.  So you could make toast or you could make toast *with love* ... you could dust or you could dust *with love* ... you could clean a wound and bandage it or you could do so *with love.*

Alas, the tolerance and forward-thinking of the Master is NOT followed actively by Roman Catholicism according to the opinions and observations of many.

Pity.  They DO call themselves Christians, after all.

:asian:


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## fangjian (May 29, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> There is a lot of bastardized reiki instruction out there and without Divine Protection you can render a person helpless and vulnerable to negative attack.


 
divine protection?                  :rofl:


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## Indagator (May 29, 2011)

dbell said:


> I gave you thinks for your comment about other organizations being more prone to having sexual abuse than Catholic Priest, however I must disagree with you on this statement.
> 
> In that the Pope, the Vicor of Christ, approved and "stamped" the findings and rulings of Vatican II, stating that there were errors in the results takes the Society of St. Pius X out of communion with the Catholic Church if they are not following the changes decreed in those proceedings.
> 
> While I don't agree with many of the findings of Vatican II, the results of that Council are now infolded into the Church are are part of the Church. Our current Pope and his Cardinals are making changes to those rulings and bringing back some of the pre-Vatican II processes, but unless he changes them all, the Society is out of communion with the Church in some levels if they call the Vatican II findings to be in error.


 

The SSPX received canonical status within the Church in 1970, six years after the Council had ended. Their position has never been ambiguous, so how is this to be explained?

Also, in regards to them considering the Council to be in error, Archbishop Lefebvre maintained that the Council itself was not erroneous provided it was interpreted in light of Tradition. This,however, has never been the manner in which it has been interpreted.

Case in point, just read through one of the articles, oh say... Lumen Gentium. Compare what it actually says to what has been in practise since its institution.

Anyways I don't want to hijack here, but if I have raised any questions or issues go ahead and PM me and I am more than happy to discuss the issue!


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## Indagator (May 29, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> Much like it was said, "Kung-fu in all things and in all things Kung-fu," many spiritual gurus and masters have reminded us "Love in all things and in all things love."
> 
> THIS is the Christian way as it was intended by ... jeez ... almost ANY interpretation of the Bible's New Testament.


 
The Vulgate uses the term "caritas" (or various declensions depending on context) in pretty much all cases referring to this statement - for example even the well known passage of text found in I Corinthians XIII should read "charity" where most read love. It is hard for some protestants, based primarily in contextual reasons, to understand quite what is meant here. Charity is love - it is a form and act of love. 
Remember that song by Massive Attack with the line "Love is a verb, love is a doing word," well that kind of sums up what is meant here.
So the operative instruction actually changes as a whole based on this, from love as an inactive or emotive operation to love/charity as an active promotive operation. This also can be demonstrated in the rejection of the Epistle of St James by most protestant sects due to its refutation of justification by faith without works (faith alone).



> Alas, the tolerance and forward-thinking of the Master is NOT followed actively by Roman Catholicism according to the opinions and observations of many.


 
By "the Master" do you refer to Christ, the same Christ who said of himself "I come not to bring peace, but the sword," ?

Again, I say to you, that the context you are interpreting these Truths is an erroneous context.



> Pity. They DO call themselves Christians, after all.
> 
> :asian:


 
Due to the connotations of the suffix -(i)an in reference to an organisational group, it is entirely accurate for the Catholic Church to refer to herself as Christian. This is because within that context the term indicates that which has been started by an individual and carried on (eg Franciscan or Dominican). It is also used to denote a particular lineage or line of succession.
The only group who utilise the term in reference to themselves who can demonstrate in a historically verifiable unbroken and continuous line of succession that they are able to trace their organisation back to it's very foundation at the hands of Christ are the Catholic Church.
Therefore the term Christ(-)ian is most applicable for this group.

Other groups whose founders were influenced in some way by a portion of the principles or ideals given forth by Christ do not contextually fit within the usage of this term.

Besides all of which, the US Bishops did not forbid the faithful from receiving reiki healing anywhere in the article.


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## Sensei Payne (May 31, 2011)

shesulsa said:


> I find this fascinating because Reiki has absolutely nothing to do with massage whatsoever. While there are hand positions for the hands-on type of reiki, physical contact is not only not required but is not the core of reiki.
> 
> Most of the reiki practitioners I know believe that The Healing Energy is The Life Force also known as The Holy Spirit. It is only with the will of God, the blessing of the Christ and the movement of The Holy Spirit that any healing (like that which Jesus conducted and called upon his disciples to engage in) through faith can occur. Everything else is ... well, likely not of The Holy Spirit and therefore invalid or potentially dangerous.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, i am only halfway through my training, and haven't really hit Reiki hard yet, but they do teach it at my no frills massage therapy school.


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## cloud dancing (Dec 31, 2014)

Weird.Usui-Buddhist teaching.Lost teaching of BUDDHA so what suprise that they don't want BUDDHA in their places.Kirilian photos=show enrgy enters top o head exits hands.touching person is NOT NECESSARY.Energy extends through fingertips and i do not need to actually touch someone as many have problems being touched.when ddi this REIKI from BUDDHISM become Oh Jesu flow through me/ dtuhh??Got my Master's training 2003. Now can teach/but there is no real teaching except positions of hands and for invoking symbols supposedly found in "Lost Scriptures from BUDDHISM" AS FOR UNPROVEN dtuhh is now used by US Military at their hospitals.
Serious studies now carried out by an HQ in USA, with forms for feedback.What's really dtuhh weird -One cop shot guy on PCP and unloaded full clip.Was attacked by 3 disincarnte spirits.Did Reiki level one attunement for her--- spirits went away.My girl who drives me insane ehre in thailand ahd spirit possession 3 x /After level one -----
stopped /has not happened again and I'm one who did not believe in EXORCISM.so WTF I've seen what I did not believe in,Light shines and darkness leaves.Peace enters.


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## Tez3 (Dec 31, 2014)




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## cloud dancing (Jan 6, 2015)

Neither do I expect a bunny rabbit, with a pancake on its head, to understand Reiki energy {photographed by Kirilian Photograpy & used at various Military Hospitals} nor exorcism nor to have the ability to differentiate between BUDDHISM and the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine.


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## cloud dancing (Jan 19, 2015)

Reiki has been tested byUS Military in their hospitals.Is used in many nursing homes and has been "proven to aid healing"accelerates healing from  multiple sicknesses.Usui healed some with polio before Salk vaccine almost wiped polio offn this earth.grew up across street from huge polio complex.Dad was psych.I've used Riekie for over 21 years with success.When energy photograpy=Kirilian photos - pictures revealed energy entres top of head and exits through hands.Was given my 3rd=Master's training because  with Prem Rawat's raja yoga.Self knowledge/knowledge of God/soul/inner energy/1974 Christmas/ was night when students went to a hospital,sang Christmas carols and there were 3 times when someone looked at me-I could FEEL PERON DRAWING ENERGY FROM ME THROUGH MY EYES. When enough energy for survival had entered /person lowered his/her eyes.3 times this happened Linda Scantlebury said was giving me Sensei level as i am only one she'd eer met who had released energy through my eyes.She knew it was possible but had neer done that. With Master -I place the symobls/ supposedly from Buddha, found by Master Usui  in ancient scriptures/ into students aura and hands.2nd level all 5 placed into aura and 4 into hands then 3rd level Master symbol is placed into hands with undertanding of how to do same for others. When I was still getting drunk, blottoed from past/left 5 1/2 days to die in vietnam/tortured stabbed twice in philipines/ was one night I did reiki for person with back trouble.he kept pushing his back into my hands. asked him why=feels like you have heating pads in your hands.Another ?/friend/drinking buddy kept taking my hands and looking at them -then energy flowed again/again he'd grab my hands and look at them.Again I asked him WHY-- it feels like you have powerful heating pads in your hands but I look and see is just the enrgy flowing through your hands. I enjoy using /reiki and feels good to have gift that heals/helps others.So far I ahve never ever charged anyone for my help as power is from Lord/life, gods and goddesses so why should they pay me for what HEAVENLY POWERS  DO. But soon I will begin teaching and charging for helping others.they pay" for my learning." As when plumber hit blocked pipe and charged house owner $220. Why /all you did was to hit the pipe/? yes but it took me over 25 years to learn where to hit the pipe. Light shines/darkness leaves /lighthouse in mtns of Chiangrai.  I SPY


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 19, 2015)

CoryKS said:


> Hmm... if only there was a word to describe Christians who believe that the final word on religious topics doesn't come from the Church.


Mystic, if you were serious.


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