# self defense against a dog



## PeaceWarrior

So I was walking out to my car today when I saw the neighbor walking his pit bull.  The dog looked bloodthirsty - very agressive.  Very interested in me. Probably a fighting dog.  It made me think- now what if you were in a situation where you were attacked by a large and agressive dog?   Obviously you can't run, because that would just show weakness and besides, who can outrun a dog?  I know a couple people who have been bitten by a dog.

I have had very agressive dogs run up to me, hackles raised and teeth bared, but I was able to make myself 'scary' enough where they didn't want to mess with me (see I think that there is a certain psychology when dealing with dogs...you have to make yourself bigger than you are, so to speak)  Now Im sure this wouldnt always work...so, maybe, kicks to the muzzle?  Only problem with that is chances are if its a thickly built fighting dog it will have fast enough reflexes and could probably bite your foot off.  Plus these dogs are extremely tough, so Im not sure what kind of strike would really affect it.

So does anybody have experience/ideas in this sort of situation?


----------



## bushidomartialarts

i've heard pepper spray is effective, if you happen to have it on you.

you don't want to try and kick an attacking dog. if they're already charging, they have a lot of mass and intent behind it and you'll wind up falling down.  

if one's actually attacking, give it your bad arm.  dogs tend to keep hold once they bite.  once they have a solid hold on something, gouge an eye.  be careful of messing with the throat -- many dogs will let go if you touch their throat.  this sounds nice, but they'll often go for another bite.  better to stay with one wound.

yuck.

better choices would be to get up on top of something a dog can't climb (lots of those around), or to whack it with a solid weapon before the dog attacks.


----------



## thetruth

If a dog is attacking someone else try and get behind the dog, reach over the back and grab the front feet, pulling them apart as hard and fast as you can.  This is pretty much fatal for a dog as their joints just don't go that way. It apparently effects their heart too.   If a dog was attacking me I don't know how I would deal with it as it would be extremely difficult to get into this position.

Cheers
Sam:asian:


----------



## zDom

If a dog ever attacks me it will not have the benefit of me trying to scale back my response as I would for a human.

Cranking limbs in horrible directions, popping eyeballs, etc., all without hesitation.

Slamming them down against the ground like Grape Ape would also comes to mind.

As I focus mentally on this intention when facing potentially aggressive dogs, they usually "read" my intention and resolve and back off. I haven't had to maim or kill one yet.


----------



## redfang

I get a lot of dog calls and I dislike them as they're unpredictable a lot of times and a dog can do a lot of damage quickly.  Pepper spray is sometimes effective, sometimes not.  A shotgun usually does the trick.  I was attacked by a large german shephed once that gave me little time to react. Without thinking, as it jumped at me, about chest height, I grabbed it by the neck and tossed it.  It did it again and I threw it again.  At that point, its owner realized what was happening and took control of the animal.

When I go on animal calls, I try to demonstrate confidence, try not to spook it, observe it for a while and see if I can determine what it wants (Food, is it close to home, does it have a mate etc). Never run from a dog, it will trigger a pursuit.  If its going to bite, try and give it something non-essential to bite, hopefully not part of your body.  If it comes doen to actually having to fight with a dog, I don't know about specific weak spots, but I would try to hurt it as much as possibl as quickly as possible.  It could be a life and death situation. People die in dog attacks.


----------



## Drac

redfang said:


> I get a lot of dog calls and I dislike them as they're unpredictable a lot of times and a dog can do a lot of damage quickly. Pepper spray is sometimes effective, sometimes not. A shotgun usually does the trick.


 
I hear ya there..


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

If I am ever attacked by a dog I hope that I will have one of my available tools to help deal with the situation.  If not I hope there is something nearby that I can use as to defend myself.  If that is not possible I will be working hard to protect my throat and groin and striking to the dogs face or picking it up and slamming it.  Realistically though I will always probably have a tool to help defend against dog attacks.  

Dog's can be incredibly effective at what they do and never underestimate one.


----------



## KenpoTex

Do a search, this topic has been "done to death" several times.


----------



## MA-Caver

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19142&highlight=defense+dogs

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10716&highlight=defense+dogs

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2464&highlight=defense+dogs

This is what the MT Search Engine revealed...


----------



## Bigshadow

Brian R. VanCise said:


> If I am ever attacked by a dog I hope that I will have one of my available tools to help deal with the situation.  If not I hope there is something nearby that I can use as to defend myself.  If that is not possible I will be working hard to protect my throat and groin and striking to the dogs face or picking it up and slamming it.  Realistically though I will always probably have a tool to help defend against dog attacks.
> 
> Dog's can be incredibly effective at what they do and never underestimate one.



I was thinking the same thing.  I am always carrying, so just give the dog something to bite into while I slice it's throat (ear to ear).  I am sure my wound won't be as bad as the one it is going to get.

The problem is about defending against animals is that their body shapes, speeds, and so forth are different from humans, so I really don't think martial arts will do much to help other than how to keep a cool head and the use of intent and spirit.  Dogs can pick up on that.  Man has always needed tools to defend, hunt, or dispatch animals.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

Nice post Dave.  Wish I could rep you for it but it says I have to spread some reputation around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Good post on using tools and man's need of them against animals! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They do move differently from us and in the case of a dog they are very, very quick.


----------



## zDom

kenpotex said:


> Do a search, this topic has been "done to death" several times.



It would be an awful quiet place if we only discussed things that have never been discussed before. After all, "There is nothing new under the sun."


----------



## PeaceWarrior

cool, thanks for all the replies.   Something I havent seen yet- what about the legs? Dogs have relatively weak legs, and I think a solid leg sweep would bring them to the ground for at least a moment, where you could use a knife or whatever.  I was thinking more along the lines of empty handed though...

MA-Caver, thanks for the links...I guess i havent learned to use the search engine yet.  

Sorry if my question was redundant.


----------



## Robert Lee

Do not run But face the dog and back awy slowly. If it attacks remember A dogs strengh is in its bite at its jaw. To lesson that you want to push into its mouth And pry it at the jaw line.  A dog is fast When you see a pit bull they are strong bites shake to deepen the bite and hold on shaking and clenching. Agin the jaw is the weak point. Whewn walking A spray in hand will be safe. Might check local codes and such . There was one time a spray called hocky pokey kind of froze the dogs skin And they would yelp and run away in a instant Do not know if it is still around. But it sure stopped any dog in in its tracks.


----------



## searcher

This may sound off the wall, but don't pull away from the dog.   If he attacks and you defend with an arm you should try to shove it as far into his mouth as possible.   This has a two fold effect: first, it takes his "tearing" teeth and puts them a little ways away from your arm: second, it reduces the bite pressure by cutting his bite leverage.   It is kind of like getting his with a blunt weapon the closer to the tip the more damage you receive.

The next thing is to grab his throat, push a finger into his eye, pull off his ear(yes it works), etc.


----------



## zDom

searcher said:


> This may sound off the wall, but don't pull away from the dog.   If he attacks and you defend with an arm you should try to shove it as far into his mouth as possible.   This has a two fold effect: first, it takes his "tearing" teeth and puts them a little ways away from your arm: second, it reduces the bite pressure by cutting his bite leverage.   It is kind of like getting his with a blunt weapon the closer to the tip the more damage you receive.
> 
> The next thing is to grab his throat, push a finger into his eye, pull off his ear(yes it works), etc.



Great advice!


----------



## MA-Caver

PeaceWarrior said:


> cool, thanks for all the replies.   Something I havent seen yet- what about the legs? Dogs have relatively weak legs, and I think a solid leg sweep would bring them to the ground for at least a moment, where you could use a knife or whatever.  I was thinking more along the lines of empty handed though...
> 
> MA-Caver, thanks for the links...I guess i havent learned to use the search engine yet.
> 
> Sorry if my question was redundant.



No that's what mentors are (partially) for. MT has a fine search engine and thusly should be used by EVERYONE on this site when preparing to ask a question... to see if it's been covered (most likely it has after 500,000 + posts) or not. Then if the answers to your question(s) havent' been provided or to your satisfaction... no law (here) says you can't simply revive the thread by adding a new post/question to it.  :asian:

As far as the legs, yeah dogs would be easier to sweep than humans due to a low center of gravity but dogs have the uncanny ability to get back up faster than humans do. You'd want to totally incapacitate the animal by doing more than just sweeping the legs out from under them... you'd want to break the leg(s). The forelegs are very succeptable to breakage as they're (relatively) thin and easier to get to... as long as you got one hand under their jaws and around their throat. 
Wrassling with dogs I found they hate being grabbed at their forelegs... it's instinctive and they'll stop attacking you and protect their legs. They know that if things go south for them they still can run away. Only a stupid or totally po-ed (or worse mad/rabid) dog will stay in the fight til the death.

Gotta remember this also... dogs smell fear quite literally. We sweat and there's chemicals eminating from the pores that says "we're afraid, we're very afraid" and that just makes the animal bolder and less afraid of you.


----------



## Odin

well personally i would..........Pull guard and go for a kimura!!!lol...not really although I saw a friend of mine choke out a dog before.... i wouldnt advise it though.


----------



## Cruentus

I can't believe we are talking about this again. 

I should reiterate that a good, strong and assertive voice and posture will thwart about 99% of all dog attacks.


----------



## MA-Caver

Tulisan said:


> I can't believe we are talking about this again.
> 
> I should reiterate that a good, strong and assertive voice and posture will thwart about 99% of all dog attacks.



Yeah, sometimes a good strong *NO!* is workable... until the dog figures out that _YOU _are *NOT* his master and resumes his attack. I've tried it several times and found that it doesn't necessarily always work. :idunno:


----------



## Brian R. VanCise

MA-Caver said:


> Yeah, sometimes a good strong *NO!* is workable... until the dog figures out that _YOU _are *NOT* his master and resumes his attack. I've tried it several times and found that it doesn't necessarily always work. :idunno:


 

I have also used the word, *No, bad dog* on several occasions and it has been very successful.


----------



## MA-Caver

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I have also used the word, *No, bad dog* on several occasions and it has been very successful.



:idunno: I guess you seem to get the pick of the litters...


----------



## searcher

If all else fails and the attack goes on with you getting hurt you just do what it takes.   Once you are recovered, you go back with a softball bat andstraighten the dog out.   Had to do this with a rott. that attacked my sister and a woman from our town.   Nobody had the guts to confront the owner or to press the issue to the powers that be.   But at 15, I was full of hormones and did not care what the owner was goign to do to me.   Problem solved.

I would like to see what a taser would do to a dog on the attack.


----------



## Carol

There's a story on Surefire.com about how a person repelled a hyena by shining a tactical light in its eyes.


----------



## Hand Sword

How? You stay away from where they hang out. If one approaches you, say get away from me. Never get into a relationship with them, no matter how cute they are.

This could also work against the 4 legged kind too.-- lol!


----------



## Adept

searcher said:


> If all else fails and the attack goes on with you getting hurt you just do what it takes.   Once you are recovered, you go back with a softball bat andstraighten the dog out.



Almost. You straighten the owner out. My family has bred and trained dogs for three generations, and I feel confident in saying that if a dog is aggressive, violent and out of control, the owner is 100% at fault. In the very worst cases, the owner should be aware that his dog is likely to attack, and keep it under control.

The dog didn't choose to be the way it is, and punishing it for being the way it's owner made it is hardly fair.


----------



## Carol

Hand Sword said:


> How? You stay away from where they hang out. If one approaches you, say get away from me. Never get into a relationship with them, no matter how cute they are.
> 
> This could also work against the 4 legged kind too.-- lol!


 
:lfao: :lfao:


----------



## Bigshadow

Adept said:


> Almost. You straighten the owner out. My family has bred and trained dogs for three generations, and I feel confident in saying that if a dog is aggressive, violent and out of control, the owner is 100% at fault. In the very worst cases, the owner should be aware that his dog is likely to attack, and keep it under control.
> 
> The dog didn't choose to be the way it is, and punishing it for being the way it's owner made it is hardly fair.



I agree with you!  The bat would have been better used on the owner.  The dog would not have known why it was being attacked.


----------



## searcher

Adept has a good point.   You are less likely to get jailed if you kill the owner than if you killed the dog.   Stinking animal right groups would have a field day trying to make you rot in jail.


----------



## Cruentus

MA-Caver said:


> Yeah, sometimes a good strong *NO!* is workable... until the dog figures out that _YOU _are *NOT* his master and resumes his attack. I've tried it several times and found that it doesn't necessarily always work. :idunno:


 
You don't yell, "no!" "No" is overused command in the dog world anyways, because it doesn't tell the dog "what" to do. And your right, they aren't as likely to listen to that for a number of reasons I don't feel like spending paragraphs posting to explain. Same with "Bad dog" or something similar; it doesn't really tell the dog what it needs to do. So, You yell "Go home!" or "Get" or "Get out of here" or something to that effect. Garaunteed to work most of the time.


----------



## lenatoi

(please keep in mind I'm a smart aaaa-um lick)
Oh no! I can't beleive you would do that to a DOG. Please spare the dog, it's only your face.:angel:


----------



## Cyber Ninja

Get yourself a nice Kusarifundo!! Smack the dog on the head with it.


----------



## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618;

Cyber Ninja said:


> Get yourself a nice Kusarifundo!! Smack the dog on the head with it.


 
lol i would have to admit that sound like fun!


----------



## morph4me

Cyber Ninja said:


> Get yourself a nice Kusarifundo!! Smack the dog on the head with it.


 
Brings to mind a story I read in the local newspaper many years ago. A police officer came home after a night of drinking and when he went into his house his landlady's dog latched on to his leg. He pulled his weapon and proceeded to shoot himself in the leg....twice.  The dog was scared but unharmed.


----------



## Jesse M.

Last year I found my leg in the grasp of a dogs mouth, I can tell you it is not fun.  What I can say is that it rushed up on me so quickly there was nothing I could do to protect myself from its bite.  What did work and work well, to get him off of me, is that I punched it three of four times right in the top of its snout.  It yelped and took off. I left in a hurry too.  I went to the hospitable right away and luckily the bite was not too bad and didnt need any stitches. It wasnt a wild dog so I also didnt need any rabies shots. I can say, I think dogs move too fast.  There is little you can do to protect yourself from their bite when they are coming right at you.


----------



## Neal

Some thoughts:
The original poster never stated what specific aggressive actions the dog took  toward themselves (straining at the leash in his direction while barking?)

With all due respect, the original poster seems somewhat nervous/fearful around big dogs.

Here is some top level French Ring training (yes the French are among the top dog trainers in the world, along with Belgium, Germany and Holland)

My training experiences are mostly French influenced combined with good old urban police K9 work. 

Most of the time, if someone here is going to get bit by one of these expertly trained/deployed dogs in this video, chances are you are doing something illegal. 

This is not directed at any decent honest folks on here being intimidated by thug dogs, please forgive me but..........

Any evil doers trolling for post graduate credits on how to defeat decent folks security, please see the link below. These dogs come in usually about 25-30mph. They avg 80 lbs and are bred to enjoy the fight. These dogs are naturally social when not threatened. They are carefully selected from generations of working dogs. Once a dog like this is sent to bite you, your going to get bit. Many of these dogs bite so hard, most folks will go into shock as the dogs clamp down on your inner thigh/groin and crunch down and thrash like a shark.
We train them to "punch and crunch"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrgzh_video0002


----------



## Cruentus

Cool. Where do you train french ring?

I train more or less for hobby and focus on SAR; but we train shutzhund as well to balance the dog out (with a really good training group; the head trainer has been to Worlds 11 times, and I believe won 7 of those times), as well as with some K-9. I would like to try French Ring but there are no good groups for it near me that I know of.


----------



## Neal

Where do you train french ring?

Live in NJ, train in NJ, CT and Maine with friends. My dog and I were 1998 FRII National Champions, Chicago, IL.


----------



## Cruentus

Neal said:


> Where do you train french ring?
> 
> Live in NJ, train in NJ, CT and Maine with friends. My dog and I were 1998 FRII National Champions, Chicago, IL.


 
Yea, that is pretty cool. You train shepards?

It is hard to find good solid training groups; there is virtually nothing strong or consistant for FR here in Michigan that I know of. I feel very fortunate to have the contacts I do have for SH and SAR, because they can be hard to come by...


----------



## Neal

Yea, that is pretty cool. You train shepards?

I've worked plenty of GSD (German shep dog). The working service GSD numbers are in decline (except Schutzhund USA) Majority of Ring dogs are Malinois and the Military and many LE agencies are now utilizing the malinois in much greater numbers.
I also specialize in Bull breeds. I was the first one ever to title an American Bulldog in French Ring sport. I love the working American Bulldog because its an indigenous working dog of the United States where the GSD and malinois are European herders in origin.
Ultimately the breed is less important then how well can the dog do the work asked of him.


----------



## Cruentus

Neal said:


> Ultimately the breed is less important then how well can the dog do the work asked of him.


 
I agree. I like A. bulldogs and Malinois. We've had a lady work out with us a couple of times who had a Malinois who took her to a few championships as well. The dog looked great; it had such a willingness to please and was extremely well rounded. We've had Bulldogs work out with us as well who looked good. I don't have a shepard either; I have an American Pit Bull Terrier who does alright (he would do better if I was more of a dilligent trainer with him), but is exceptional at tracking of all things (why we are SAR focused).

So I agree; breed is not as important as the individual dog (motivation and skills) and the trainer/training method. A lot of people in sports tend to be overly breed biased, which is a mistake, I think. I have had a lot of people tell me that my APBT won't be a great tracker or air scenter because they believed Bulldogs and Pits have shorter noses and fewer olifactory cells. But then my dog demonstrates a great tracking ability, violating the prejeduce. They neglected the fact that there is a lot more to scenting then amount of olofactory cells, such as size and efficiency of the olofactory bulb and vomeronasal organ, and motivation, for example. So, you can't judge a dog by its breed, really.

Anyway, nice talking to you. I know who to PM on this board if I need any dog advice!


----------



## Neal

Mike Swick, UFC fighter taking some bites from a Military dog. Yes Mike is running away and not fighting the dog. That being said, a trained UFC fighter doesnt even have the balance to take a hit and stay on his feet. Also notice where the dog is biting. It makes striking difficult. Plus if the dog cranked you like that without the suit on, most submit immediatly.


----------



## Cris

Around here stray dogs are common and you don't even go for a walk without a nice big stick to smack any aggressive dogs, but I have found staring at a dog like you're going to kill it if it gets closer keeps most of them away(I've done it.. its funny when they keep barking from a distance.  It helps that I'm not the least bit scared of the dogs around here.). Also some dogs are so stupid physical harm won't deter them for a minute or so... my dad got attacked by a pitbull and shot it with rat shot and the thing didn't even notice.


----------



## tradrockrat

some interesting stuff here.  My .02?

We (humans) have a huge adbvantage over a nieghborhood dog.  They never learned to bite right, they never learned to fight humans right, and we have the brains to beat them if we use it.

A wild dog is another story, they fight to live, they are used to pain, and they know the stakes - you had better put that dog down hard and fast.

A trained dog is a mother.  I was a helper for a schutzhund club in Maryland for a while (that means I took the bites on a sleeve or body suit). They know how, and where to hit and they come at you like a bullet.  German shepards hit at 35 MPH.  Rotties hit like frieght trains.  I was never knocked over by any dog other than Rotties (120 lbs of kinetic energy), but the german sheperds hit fast.  Oh yeah - even throught the sleeve the bites hurt your arm - a strong Rottie will snap your forearm like a dry stick.

Now having said all that, my personal opinion is that if you keep your head you are going to win an encounter with a dog, but you will get hurt.  don't waste time with anything fancy like kicking legs - I've found myself on the recieving end of three dog attacks outside of the club, and they are flat out faster than you can ever imagine.  I grew up in a heavily wooded stretch close to farm land.  We had wild dogs and everybody owned dogs as well.  I have a nice scar on my right arm from a St. Bernard K-9 tooth, but I beat that dog so hard he yelped and snapped at his own foot and ran away.  I punched his head repeatedly and stomped his paw with all my weight.

I held off a feral dog with a big damn stick and screams / yells, but I had to hit that damn thing full in the ribs (as it latched onto my pants leg) before I was finally able to get him to give up the chase / fight.  At one point it grabbed ahold of the stick and almost wrenched it out of my hand but I gave him a right hook as hard as I could to its neck and he let go.  I was scratched and bloodied from claws but I got away.  That was the one of the scariest moments of my life.

Trained dogs?  Well lets just say that I'm REALLY glad I always had that suit on...


----------



## LawDog

If a dog approaches you and he is being aggressive never eye lock him. In the animal world, in general, hard eye contact is a sign of aggression. Squaring off towards the animal is an aggressive posture, you should turn slightly sideways to him. If you are going to reach for something that is on your person use the hand that is behind you. This will afford you an edge, you will give an impression of yeilding to him while you are making up your game plan. 
Try not to move in a straight line towards or away from the animal, this will force him to continually reset his position. This will make it harder for him to jump in a straight line towards you. 
Try to move in a circular fashion, animals will range your distance for an attack. Different animals utilize specific ranges for their attacks.
Animals can sense fear, stay as calm as you can, if you don't they will attack.


----------



## Drunken_Boxer

I would give him a head damage lol...no I would prolly run,but thats not a good idea I know,I dont think fast,it comes from my body and says whatever it wants...
I dont like dogs or pitbulls...pitbulls are mutants...blaah.


----------



## CHEROKEE

In the 1960's my neighbor, an old man who was quite intelligent and not ever a BS'er, told me of this method: Ram your hand/fist down the dogs throat until it is dead. Of course, this would only be used in a life/death situation. Fortunately I have never had a life/death situation with a dog, so this method is untested as far as I know. However, it is known that it is best to push toward a dog during a bite, rather than pull away (which is counterintuitive). Having wrestled with dogs as a kid, I imagine this method would work. Once you enter the throat, their instinct would be to release any bite and try to get away, at which point you drive your hand farther down the throat and then they are surely going to die if you can hold the dog down off its feet and keep it from getting away.


----------



## kaizasosei

aside from simply making noise or trying to create distance or even strike the dog, i know of one way to controll a dog..  a single dog can be completely controlled by grabbing the skin of the dogs cheeks and side of neck with both hands.  this chokes the dog.  one does have to be stronger than the dog because if a dog is stronger, it could simply wrestle itself out and bite.  but if the grip is strong and the dog is hoisted upwards and choked, it can be controlled even if it is a relatively dangerous and strong dog.  the best grip is to be standing behind the dog coming from the rear.  but in the case of an emergency, one could even gain a bit of leverage by using the neck as a handle.  but being in front of the dog, the dog can most likey still bite to the side.
  there is also a nice dog throw done by simply reaching under the dog and grabbing the leg on the other side to push over with leverage.  
but all this in the heat of action may be too difficult.  
dogs are masters of intimidation and it may be very tricky getting in position to carry out any of these moves.
also, it may be best to let an extremly aggressive dog bite into another object like an umbrella or even a well protected forarm.  in which case if there is any time one could drape a jacket over one arm as a defensive measure.



> well personally i would..........Pull guard and go for a kimura!!!lol...not really although I saw a friend of mine choke out a dog before.... i wouldnt advise it though.



risky maybe, but a rear naked choke on a dog can work(depending on the dog of course)...


----------



## King David

I've been around some big dogs, Rotts, Mastiffs and Wolfs. Dogs are quick, but not very intelligent compared to a human.

Fighting a dog is similar to fighting a bull. Lead it where you want it to go and then sabatoge it. 

If you have to give up an arm, throw out a swift elbow instead. If it lunges, kick it in the throat (watch your timing). A tight front head lock can be effective as well as a guillitine choke. You have to be careful or their neck will slip out or they will find a way to bite you. Grab their elbow and rip outward (9 o'clock) against the joint, while keeping on your toes and maintining pressure on the animal. This will tear the arm out of the socket and render it useless. Keep your weight on the animal by replacing your shoulder (which is on top of the dogs shoulder blade) with your with your hand, then your knee. This will allow you to extend upright, maintain balance and grip on the now dislocated shoulder.

By keeping your hand in place, you can deliver a swift head butt to the top of the head. This could crush their skull as a human skull is much harder than a dogs, even a big one. 

Always go for the eyes if you have the occasion. If you find yourself underneath a dog, use the jiu jitsu butterfly (open) guard, and hit an elevator. Grab the throat while you roll on top and post the dog's neck flat to the ground as you mount. Take your other hand and push the dogs mouth upward exposing its throat completely. Remove your first hand while holding him with your other and deliver a sharp strike to crush the wind pipe.

Scissor locks can crush their rib cages.

If you get behind a dog, use a double leg ride (hooks) and be sure to keep your arms tucked under the armpits of the dog. Keep your body in tight because a dog has a lot of rotation in its neck and it can turn around a bite you. Stay close and tucked in, under the arms. Use your legs as leverage to break the dog down from its stance. Flatten out the animal. Then carefully slide a pointed hand deep under the neck of the dog. Use your whole upper body and shoulder to lift the head of the dog while keeping a tight rear naked choke. Once the head is extended, you can use your other hand to grab under the mouth. Arch your back and lift up and backward on the dogs mouth. This will cause the dogs back to arch against the direction of its spine. Once the dog is extended upright to 90 degree angle, wrap you entire arm deep around its neck like an anaconda, reaching around and putting your right hand in your back right pocket. This will lock the dog in and immobilize it completely. 

With a simple arch backward, the spine will burst rendering the dog paralyzed.

King David


----------



## MA-Caver

King David said:


> I've been around some big dogs, Rotts, Mastiffs and Wolfs. Dogs are quick, but not very intelligent compared to a human.
> Fighting a dog is similar to fighting a bull. Lead it where you want it to go and then sabotage it.
> If you have to give up an arm, throw out a swift elbow instead. If it lunges, kick it in the throat (watch your timing). A tight front head lock can be effective as well as a guillotine choke. You have to be careful or their neck will slip out or they will find a way to bite you. Grab their elbow and rip outward (9 o'clock) against the joint, while keeping on your toes and maintaining pressure on the animal. This will tear the arm out of the socket and render it useless. Keep your weight on the animal by replacing your shoulder (which is on top of the dogs shoulder blade) with your with your hand, then your knee. This will allow you to extend upright, maintain balance and grip on the now dislocated shoulder.
> 
> By keeping your hand in place, you can deliver a swift head butt to the top of the head. This could crush their skull as a human skull is much harder than a dogs, even a big one.
> 
> Always go for the eyes if you have the occasion. If you find yourself underneath a dog, use the jiu jitsu butterfly (open) guard, and hit an elevator. Grab the throat while you roll on top and post the dog's neck flat to the ground as you mount. Take your other hand and push the dogs mouth upward exposing its throat completely. Remove your first hand while holding him with your other and deliver a sharp strike to crush the wind pipe.
> 
> Scissor locks can crush their rib cages.
> 
> If you get behind a dog, use a double leg ride (hooks) and be sure to keep your arms tucked under the armpits of the dog. Keep your body in tight because a dog has a lot of rotation in its neck and it can turn around a bite you. Stay close and tucked in, under the arms. Use your legs as leverage to break the dog down from its stance. Flatten out the animal. Then carefully slide a pointed hand deep under the neck of the dog. Use your whole upper body and shoulder to lift the head of the dog while keeping a tight rear naked choke. Once the head is extended, you can use your other hand to grab under the mouth. Arch your back and lift up and backward on the dogs mouth. This will cause the dogs back to arch against the direction of its spine. Once the dog is extended upright to 90 degree angle, wrap you entire arm deep around its neck like an anaconda, reaching around and putting your right hand in your back right pocket. This will lock the dog in and immobilize it completely.
> 
> With a simple arch backward, the spine will burst rendering the dog paralyzed.
> 
> King David


Those are nice and probably very effective but a lot of it is pure overkill in my opinion/experience. You hurt a dog enough to where it's screaming... let go... and chances are ... it'll get the hell out of dodge. Trap the dog while it's hurt and it may try to go for the kill, which means you will have to fight harder and probably get bitten more. 
I'll also argue the fact that dogs are a lot smarter than we humans give them credit for... particularly fighting type and guard type dogs. You also don't know if the dog itself has had experience (or training) in fighting humans. 

If I get on top and behind a dog then I'm going to go for one of two things, it's nose (millions of nerve endings there) with a good solid hammer blow, or it's lower jaw and like Kong did to the Tyrannosaur grab that lower jaw from behind the canines and pull sharply downward. The nose will totally daze it and it'll just want to get on outta there and as far away from you as possible... (been there done that) the jaw is a last resort and will kill the animal or it will have to be put down, either way it won't be biting anymore.


----------



## Flea

Last year I nearly pepper-sprayed a stray that came after my dog, but it backed off at the last minute.  In retrospect I realized my dog would have caught a lot of it too.

I asked my vet about it later and she told me that pepper spray is a toss-up with dogs.  They may take off, but there's a 50% chance that it could enrage the dog, making the situation far worse.

My advice?  Carry bacon.


----------



## BrandonLucas

Bacon is seriously the answer for everything....lol

I have been in this situation before.  The hardest part is fighting a dog that has the advantage of surprise on you...in other words, if you aren't expecting them to attack, and you have to act on reflex or reaction.

In either case, what MACaver is saying is correct...if you hurt a dog enough to make it yelp, it will generally back off considerably...the thing is, you have to watch them after they back off.  Dogs, of course, are territorial, so if they feel like you're still in their territory, they will keep attacking you until:


You leave their territory
You're dead
They're dead
The trick is to keep an eye on them after you let them back off.  Dogs will try to bait you into thinking that they have backed down, but then they will basically Trojan Horse you.  I've seen it happen.

I don't like to go for kill type moves on an animal, because honestly, they're more than likely just trying to protect themselves or their territory...and I don't blame them.  I'm territorial too.  

But generally speaking, a dog will end up with respect for you if you make it believe that you are the alpha male.  It won't challenge you after it realizes that.


----------



## kaizasosei

Awesome dog defense/immobilization move discovered thanks to my Girlfriend...only works if the dog has a collar.

what you do is if there is any way, like if the dog is going for someone or another dog or if you can pull it off being attacked...is to get a stick of some sort and stick it through the collar. Then you twist the stick to choke the dog out...as i have stated before, if you are quick, strong and receptive enough, you can grab a dogs cheeks/neck region on both sides with both hands and pull up(you choke the dog with his own loose skin)...that is when you are beside the dog or from behind.  Not advisable to tackle head on on a powerful dog.
Classic defense is to use your knees as they are not that easy of a target and can keep the dogs center at bay.


Even better still and with enough conviction will work to some degree on most all dogs.  That is to bend over really fast and pretend to pick up something and then pretend to throw the imaginary object at the dog.  Dogs and humans have been around together and it seems to me to be instinctual for the dog to fear getting **** thrown at him....

one time i had to resort to throwing rocks at a wild cat that would not leave the premises and tore up a dogs face pretty bad...even willingly jumped in the pool to avoid the attacks by the owners....it then dove up, looked about and with the elegance of an olympic swimmer swam to land climbed,no dragged its soaked body out of the pool and then simply started cleaning itself.
i still feel bad for tossing rocks on that cat, but there was so much chaos and shouting going on, coupled with the bloodied face of the dog(boxer)....
i missed about four rocks but the fifth one seemed to hit the poor cat in the head- and then it took off fast.  I tell you animals fear stuff getting thrown at them and some other animals such as some bird species are instinctively scared of people with sticks....hell a crow will freak out even if you point a ninjaturtle action-figure in his general direction...

good advice i agree not to corner an animal without care.  As they say, the lion is most dangerous when he is backed into a corner.


j 

j


----------



## MA-Caver

BrandonLucas said:


> Bacon is seriously the answer for everything....lol
> 
> I have been in this situation before.  The hardest part is fighting a dog that has the advantage of surprise on you...in other words, if you aren't expecting them to attack, and you have to act on reflex or reaction.
> 
> In either case, what MACaver is saying is correct...if you hurt a dog enough to make it yelp, it will generally back off considerably...the thing is, you have to watch them after they back off.  Dogs, of course, are territorial, so if they feel like you're still in their territory, they will keep attacking you until:
> 
> 
> You leave their territory
> You're dead
> They're dead
> The trick is to keep an eye on them after you let them back off.  Dogs will try to bait you into thinking that they have backed down, but then they will basically Trojan Horse you.  I've seen it happen.
> 
> I don't like to go for kill type moves on an animal, because honestly, they're more than likely just trying to protect themselves or their territory...and I don't blame them.  I'm territorial too.
> 
> But generally speaking, a dog will end up with respect for you if you make it believe that you are the alpha male.  It won't challenge you after it realizes that.


Excellent reply. And true that I've too have seen dogs feint running off and when you turn your back they're charging back at you. Dogs understand that superior Alpha dogs are not to be trifled with. They're hard-wired with it. 
That is why for humans you get the dog to back off, YOU back off as well... but DO NOT turn your back on it... if the dog makes a forward move then you move forward to it more aggressively growling yelling fierce... whatever. 
The old, bend over and pretend to pick up a rock DOES help... particularly if dogs have been "stoned" before. But better to actually pick up a rock, bottle or something heavy enough to hurt when you hit the animal with it.
Opening up your coat (if wearing one) and spreading it wide to "catch the wind" makes you look larger and more intimidating. This is all after the initial hurt/yelp and the scramble to get away from you and you're still in it's perceived territory. 
Only once have I done this, was at night and trapped in a fenced yard (don't ask  ) and thankfully I had to go... a dog and I were doing the stare-down thing... both of us were equally intimidated I guess you can say because he wasn't charging (was like a lab-shepard mix or something) just growling and doing the foot shuffling. I whipped myself out and went... walking backwards and drawing a line around then moved to the fence ... I knew I would have to turn my back on the dog to climb... I did (after zipping up) and got to the top and found the dog was halted at my line, sniffing... that was enough to allow me to get on over the other side... last I saw the dog was re-marking his territory. :lol: 



kaizasosei said:


> Awesome dog defense/immobilization move discovered thanks to my Girlfriend...only works if the dog has a collar.
> 
> what you do is if there is any way, like if the dog is going for someone or another dog or if you can pull it off being attacked...is to get a stick of some sort and stick it through the collar. Then you twist the stick to choke the dog out...as i have stated before, if you are quick, strong and receptive enough, you can grab a dogs cheeks/neck region on both sides with both hands and pull up(you choke the dog with his own loose skin)...that is when you are beside the dog or from behind. Not advisable to tackle head on on a powerful dog.
> Classic defense is to use your knees as they are not that easy of a target and can keep the dogs center at bay.
> Even better still and with enough conviction will work to some degree on most all dogs. That is to bend over really fast and pretend to pick up something and then pretend to throw the imaginary object at the dog. Dogs and humans have been around together and it seems to me to be instinctual for the dog to fear getting **** thrown at him....
> one time i had to resort to throwing rocks at a wild cat that would not leave the premises and tore up a dogs face pretty bad...even willingly jumped in the pool to avoid the attacks by the owners....it then dove up, looked about and with the elegance of an olympic swimmer swam to land climbed,no dragged its soaked body out of the pool and then simply started cleaning itself.
> i still feel bad for tossing rocks on that cat, but there was so much chaos and shouting going on, coupled with the bloodied face of the dog(boxer)....
> i missed about four rocks but the fifth one seemed to hit the poor cat in the head- and then it took off fast. I tell you animals fear stuff getting thrown at them and some other animals such as some bird species are instinctively scared of people with sticks....hell a crow will freak out even if you point a ninjaturtle action-figure in his general direction...
> good advice i agree not to corner an animal without care. As they say, the lion is most dangerous when he is backed into a corner.
> j


Exactly never corner an animal when you can help it unless you got the means to immobilize it...


----------



## BLACK LION

This is a great topic... 

I have had several instances with dogs where I have been attacked or someone else has or another dog has or my own dog has....  

I have learned one major principle when dealing with even the most "bloodthirsty" beasts....   YOU ARE THE BIGGER ANIMAL.... let them know that.... growl, yell and advance on them with your arms flared to the side while doing so.  God gave us dominion over all beasts for a reason, remember that...    We are at the top of the food chain...  

If you or someone or something else is already being attacked.... go for the dogs throat... make sure you secure the trachea and esophagus and then secure the base of the skull...shove your fingers in their eye sockets...  etc...    some say that once a pitbull locks on he wont let go....********...ram a finger up his *** and he will... if a dog lunges to bit you five them the forearm and shove it to the back of thier mouth...when they clamp on, place the other forearm behind the skull and rotate the bitten arm over it and thier neck will break....  You have to do something and do it quick... thier jaws were designed to crush and digest bone.... USE A BLADE... if its night time..USE A BRIGHT FLASHLIGHT  IN THIER EYES...  if surefires worked on a pride of lions they will work on one dog(it does work)

I was on the beach last summer and I noticed a mastiff type dog or maybe a blue dane stalking this child that was swimming in the water... the dog was huge but afraid to go out in the water... so it turned its attention on lil scruffy the family dog...   it picked that dog up and just devoured it in his mouth and proceeded to whip it from side to side while everyone including the owners watched in complete horror and disbelief...  no one would save that dog out of fear...  I mad my way over to the dog and came up under its fov and clutched its trachea in my hand while securing the base of the skull and spine so he couldnt turn or move his head to bite at all.... he wanted to real bad though but I just squeezed the trachea so it couldnt swallow....  I talked it down until it laid down and allowed me to instruct the dogsitter on what to do...   I told them I was fully prepared to kill this animal right in front of her if he attacks someone or something else...   she gave me the dogs story and put it on the leash and let it drag her off the beach...    the other dog lived and I didnt even get a thank you....     comfort of denial is bliss aye


----------



## BrandonLucas

BLACK LION said:


> This is a great topic...
> 
> I have had several instances with dogs where I have been attacked or someone else has or another dog has or my own dog has....
> 
> I have learned one major principle when dealing with even the most "bloodthirsty" beasts.... YOU ARE THE BIGGER ANIMAL.... let them know that.... growl, yell and advance on them with your arms flared to the side while doing so. God gave us dominion over all beasts for a reason, remember that... We are at the top of the food chain...
> 
> If you or someone or something else is already being attacked.... go for the dogs throat... make sure you secure the trachea and esophagus and then secure the base of the skull...shove your fingers in their eye sockets... etc... some say that once a pitbull locks on he wont let go....********...ram a finger up his *** and he will... if a dog lunges to bit you five them the forearm and shove it to the back of thier mouth...when they clamp on, place the other forearm behind the skull and rotate the bitten arm over it and thier neck will break.... You have to do something and do it quick... thier jaws were designed to crush and digest bone.... USE A BLADE... if its night time..USE A BRIGHT FLASHLIGHT IN THIER EYES... if surefires worked on a pride of lions they will work on one dog(it does work)
> 
> I was on the beach last summer and I noticed a mastiff type dog or maybe a blue dane stalking this child that was swimming in the water... the dog was huge but afraid to go out in the water... so it turned its attention on lil scruffy the family dog... it picked that dog up and just devoured it in his mouth and proceeded to whip it from side to side while everyone including the owners watched in complete horror and disbelief... no one would save that dog out of fear... I mad my way over to the dog and came up under its fov and clutched its trachea in my hand while securing the base of the skull and spine so he couldnt turn or move his head to bite at all.... he wanted to real bad though but I just squeezed the trachea so it couldnt swallow.... I talked it down until it laid down and allowed me to instruct the dogsitter on what to do... I told them I was fully prepared to kill this animal right in front of her if he attacks someone or something else... she gave me the dogs story and put it on the leash and let it drag her off the beach... the other dog lived and I didnt even get a thank you.... comfort of denial is bliss aye


 
It's a hard thing to accept, but if you happen to be in this type of situation again, don't expect to be thanked.  It's a strange thing, but animals (especially dogs) have this special place in most peoples' hearts that even though they know the dog is trying to kill them, they don't want to see the dog in pain or abused in anyway.

If a child is in danger, then yes, the dog needs to be dealt with quickly and efficiently.  The thing is, it is still going to be a huge shock for the parents of the child in danger to see someone beating the dog that is trying to go after the child.  

Regarding the story you told there, I would really love to get ahold of the dog's owner, who was apparently walking a dog that she could not control.  That is the whole point of walking a dog...to control where the animal goes and when.  If someone can't grasp that concept, there's not much point in even having a leash at all.


----------



## BLACK LION

BrandonLucas said:


> It's a hard thing to accept, but if you happen to be in this type of situation again, don't expect to be thanked. It's a strange thing, but animals (especially dogs) have this special place in most peoples' hearts that even though they know the dog is trying to kill them, they don't want to see the dog in pain or abused in anyway.
> 
> If a child is in danger, then yes, the dog needs to be dealt with quickly and efficiently. The thing is, it is still going to be a huge shock for the parents of the child in danger to see someone beating the dog that is trying to go after the child.
> 
> Regarding the story you told there, I would really love to get ahold of the dog's owner, who was apparently walking a dog that she could not control. That is the whole point of walking a dog...to control where the animal goes and when. If someone can't grasp that concept, there's not much point in even having a leash at all.


 
I agree completely... 

I asked why the hell was she out there with that dog on a leash made for a chihuahua if she couldnt control it... apparently she felt sorry for it being "couped up" and had no idea...apparently she was "dog sitting" for the owners who "rescued" the dog a week earlier then decided to go on vacation... she also told me that the dog was previously abused real bad with sticks and such...    Mind you all this was going on while I had the dog by the throat and skull   

It was almost thier son though... They had gone into shock after accepting that feefee was a gonner and they never came out...  the comfort of denial is bliss


----------



## nelsonkari

Very good kick butt dog suggestions here on this forum. I have been attacked by dogs a number of times in my life as a meter reader for a power company. I carried a club in my car along with a can of mace. On one occasion I had to use both against an attacking German Shepard. I also carried a Buck knife and once had to use it to deter another shepard in a fenced in back yard. As long as the owner was not present we had a Mexican standoff that allowed me to get my job done.

I have kicked dogs, one was a charging German Shepard who's master, a woman, was walking to his dog house as I went through the yard to the meter. A pure reflex roundhouse caught the dog in the jaw and sent him flying 180 degrees to whence he came. I apologized to the woman for kicking her dog.

Another shepard bit me on my right thigh and put his hooks into me in a "loving" embrace. This doggy went airborne as I launched him off my leg and proceeded to scream profanities as I chased him across the yard.
A month later I was reading the meter again and his master happened to be present and the dog was chained up. When I told him what happened to me he went over and started beating his dog. It's no wonder he was viscious!

Dog's do spook easily. Once I got jumped by a mutt who was chained to a meter pole that was sleeping under a trailer. When he woke up and charged me I pointed my pencil as if it was a laser weapon. The dog was spooked enough in order to let me back out of range.

One tech for a kill is to give up an arm to sweep the dog into the air to preform a backbreaker. I wouldn't recommend trying it for kicks but it might just save your life someday. Eye gouuges are nice but not fatal as are throat shots. Stabbing works too as long as you get away after the big commotion and aren't sued by the owner.

I had a saying written on the club I carried in my meter reading car.
"The only good dog is a vaporized dog." Maybe that's why the called me a wild man back in the day.

I hope my stories helped and gave you all a few laughs.

Nelson


----------



## Big Don

My dad used to reach out and grab the dog by it's bottom jaw and force the middle finger and thumb of that hand to hold the dog's tongue down. When this is done, they cannot close their mouth. I don't have the balls to try that and the few times I have been charged, I either dove into a vehicle or resorted to a roundhouse kick. I was attacked by a dog about three months after starting Kenpo. All my Sifu wanted to know was had I kiaied. I told him that depended on if he considered MOTHER F_ and OH SH_ Kiais...


----------



## BLACK LION

Please allow me to add that you both provided good tactics.... 

Give them the forearm in order to perform a rollover neck/backbreaker with the opposite arm is one I advocate especially for pitbulls or dogs who will not let go.  

Also the clench of the jaw while pressing the thumb down on the tongue to prevent swallowing is one I have personally used....   

good posts guys


----------



## Joab

Opening an umbrella usually scares them. Pepper spray, gunshots and the like. Throw some food one way and run the other way. I read in an article once the kicking and breaking of the jaw, but it would have to be a really good kick, I don't think I could do it. Fortunately, dogs and I get along, I'm a dog lover, they sense it, I don't have a problem with dogs.


----------



## First Action

There are a few schools of thought here. One that I know works is, is you're going to run is climb a tree and/or turn sharp corners - dogs cant turn very sharply.

My first thought would be to pick up a big stick. 

Ive heard about people letting the dog bite their forearm then placing the other hand behind neck and snapping the dogs neck - I doubt if this works but letting it bite your forearm is better than your neck. 

Another one I've heard is spreading their front legs apart to break their ribs - Ive not tried this either but is somewhat plausable.


*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Contributed by[/FONT]**[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]**[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeevan Lim-Nunez[/FONT]**[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Owner and course creator of First Action Self Defence and Survival Courses[/FONT]*
*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]www.firstaction.com.au[/FONT]*


*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]More free Self Defence related articles, tips and techniques can be found at[/FONT]*_[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]_*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]www.freeselfdefencetips.com [/FONT]*
*[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Survival related tips can be found at www.freesurvivaltactics.com[/FONT]*​


----------



## BLACK LION

Dogs without tails cannot corner as sharp as a dog with a tail... dobermans for instance are rather quite useless when it comes to swimming and cornering without thier tails...  I have a King doberman with both ears and tail and the difference in performance is night and day...  the tail acts as a counterweight and can be used to alloe the dog to perform many things that one without a tail seems to be useless at...   I watched my dog spiral completely around a telephone pole to catch a squirrel and swim for 25vminute straight in a pond trying to catch a duck...   

The neck break can work if the dogs jaw is secure and they dont turn thier head and release thier bite...


----------



## astrobiologist

I hail from the school of thought that a good kick in the stomach will be enough to slow a dog's attack so that you can then choose to defend or retreat.  Honestly, I think one of the biggest problems people experience with dogs is they let their fear show.  Dogs sense gesturing and anxiety.  

I've only been attacked by a dog once, when I was younger.  I was terrified and the dog bit me.  I have two permanent scars on my right hand (defensive wounds?).  Luckily it ended at that.  

If a dog runs up on me now, I stand my ground and maintain my composure.  I let the dog know that I'm in charge.  I avoid too much direct eye contact, but I also don't avert my eyes.  I also will not lower my face or throat towards an unknown dog.


----------

