# USMC Self Defense Clips



## StrongFighter (Feb 28, 2009)

Thought some of you might enjoy these two short ones.





 
Look under media and click to watch the movie.

http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title.jsp?stid=400278

Compare the techniques from way back then and how some of them are familiar in some of the martial arts today.

Semper Fi


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## StrongFighter (Feb 28, 2009)

Interesting perspective ...





 
Semper Fi


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## arnisador (Feb 28, 2009)

I've seen  on TCM as filler once before. It's fascinating how they simultaneously adopted JMA techniques while denigrating the Japanese themselves. It's information (on self-defense) and disinformation (wartime propaganda) all in one!


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## StrongFighter (Feb 28, 2009)

arnisador said:


> I've seen on TCM as filler once before. It's fascinating how they simultaneously adopted JMA techniques while denigrating the Japanese themselves. It's information (on self-defense) and disinformation (wartime propaganda) all in one!


 
Actually, they had a good reason. It was not just the kamikaze zeroes crashing into U.S. naval battleships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsKO_ut9WR0

The japanese were so hardcore that the U.S.A. had to be more aggressive, ruthless and even more hardcore in order to win that brutal war. 

There was no political correctness at all. It was kill or be killed. Win or die period. 

America's commitment to win that war was absolute and total. 

Not the political correct stupidness currently being displayed with the Iraq withdrawal and Afghanistan going to be withdrawing prematurely soon. 

Political correctness with the arabs will destroy all of us unless we wake up and be men. fight back like our grandfathers did. 

Our grandfathers were the greatest generation that ever lived. 

The USS Cole incident that happened on 12 October 2000 and the senseless, tragical loss of American sailor's lives would not have happened if the rules of engagement were different. 

They sounded the warning for the boat to stay away but the sailors had to ask for permission to engage the approaching boat.

Nobody in their right mind would approach a US Navy battleship armed to the teeth like a shark.


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## jarrod (Feb 28, 2009)

resistance to the current war is not an issue of political correctness, but one of justification.  there were few who thought we had no business going to war with japan after pearl harbor (though we could have avoided that with better diplomacy towards japan in the 19th century).  japan was a fledgling empire at the height of expansion & had attacked the U.S. as a nation.  which is a little different from our current situation.  i don't want to start a political debate, but the explanations for our current war aren't quite as justifiable in the minds of many.

thank you for the clips though, very interesting.

jf


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## StrongFighter (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks Jarrod for not starting a political debate and focusing on the clips mentioned above. Yes, they are excellent and very interesting video clips.

I wanted to be more clear and say that the question is ...

Comparing the techniques from the old days and how some of them are familiar in martial arts today. 

_How similar or different are they in the martial art you are practicing ?_


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## jarrod (Mar 1, 2009)

StrongFighter said:


> _How similar or different are they in the martial art you are practicing ?_



the empty hand techniques they're doing look like classic jujitsu & catch wrestling to me.  i think we use different training methods today, but it looks the same.  good stuff is good stuff.

jf


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## Deaf Smith (Mar 1, 2009)

Lt. Col. John George, who was a Lt. (and later Captain) in WWII, said in his book, 'Shots Fired in Anger' that marching and shooting was the very top priority (George was in the 5307th, as well as a Guadalcanal veteran.)

They devised many popup targets as well as using GIs in foxholes to raise plaster-of-paris dummies to shoot at. They also used unknown distance shooting.

While H2H has a place, he said that in Burma they did all kinds of very dangerous tricks with their firearms. Shooting cigars out of mouths, empty cartridge cases from between fingers, twigs shortened several times by shots, and the like. They did these things with .45s, M1 carbines, and M1 Garands.

H2H was more of a moral builder than combat skill. Yes it was used some, but not often. Usually there was some type of environmental weapon handy (rock, shovel, trench knife, brick, etc..)

Deaf


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## arnisador (Mar 1, 2009)

Yes, often it serves to build aggressiveness more than anything else. The USMC has been up-front about this with its padded stick sparring, for example.


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## chinto (Mar 2, 2009)

yes hand to hand combat training helps build aggression and confidence, but it is also a useful skill both in combat and out. I personally would like to see our forces better trained for combat in all arias.  sweat in peace or training so less bleeding in war.  

with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan having some house to house combat in the past, that is one of the places that you may end up in hand to hand combat. so it does have use.

I would like them to train more for combat and less for "peace keeping" and sport then apparently the MMAP has been for several years.


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## jarrod (Mar 2, 2009)

chinto said:


> I would like them to train more for combat and less for "peace keeping" and sport then apparently the MMAP has been for several years.


 
sport fighting is a tried & true approach to developing hand to hand skills that has been used by virtually every military throughout history. i agree with you entirely about peace keeping though. it's kind of like trying to use a gun for non-lethal self-defense. if it doesn't need killing, the military shouldn't be doing it.

jf


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## Slihn (Mar 13, 2009)

StrongFighter said:


> Thought some of you might enjoy these two short ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Nice!! I was a Soldier in the U.S. Army  but I have always admired the emphasis on hand to hand combat by the Marines


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## Omar B (Mar 13, 2009)

LINE, MCMAP, effective they may be but I'll tell you a short story.  

My friend (and old roommate) Jen brought over this dude who served in Iraq and I appreciate what he did/does but the guy was obnoxious all night about what he's seen and done in the field and I totally believe him.  Thing is, he got all obnoxious about it talking crap about me being a pacifist (hey, I wasn't even born in the US though I am an American now).

In any case we went out to the store to pick some more beers up (who woulda thought right) and he decided to get pushy and punchy.  In any case, his MCMAP didnt serve him well, I had him face down on teh sidewalk in a headlock before he could get off his second punch.

MCMAP, LINE, cool stuff, that guy with his crazy army bravado, totally dishonorable.


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## jarrod (Mar 13, 2009)

whoa, whoa, whoa...you ran into a drunk, aggressive guy from the _military_?  OUR military?  

here's a little secret: combat effectiveness is not the primary purpose of most hand-to-hand training in the military.  it's a confidence builder, & one that gets you in shape & used to conflict.  they sort of imply to recruits that they are learning super-simple billy badass secrets...but really it's like any other martial arts program.  if they don't continue to train once they're out of basic it's not really going to stick with them.

(well handled it sounds like, btw)

jf


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## Omar B (Mar 13, 2009)

You'll be glad to know I didnt hit one of our nations heros.  I'll never punch a soldier, cop, firefighter ... nuns, that a whole other story.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 14, 2009)

arnisador said:


> I've seen  on TCM as filler once before. It's fascinating how they simultaneously adopted JMA techniques while denigrating the Japanese themselves. It's information (on self-defense) and disinformation (wartime propaganda) all in one!


 It's important to denigrate and dehumanize folks you are soon going to be grabbing around the neck and killing.

We can all respect each other again after the smoke settles. 

Not that the Japanese didn't earn denigration and dehumanization during WWII.......from Nanking to Batan, the Japanese fascist state waged a war that earned no quarter given.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 14, 2009)

StrongFighter said:


> Thanks Jarrod for not starting a political debate and focusing on the clips mentioned above. Yes, they are excellent and very interesting video clips.
> 
> I wanted to be more clear and say that the question is ...
> 
> ...



Much of knife and bayonet techniques for the USMC come directly from A.J. Biddle, USMC, a contemporary of Applegate, Fairbain, Styers and Stavers, who based his system off western fencing.

The first videos are describing Marine Corp Raiders, a special operations commando force of the Marine Corp during WWII, and as they mentioned their techniques were taken for Jui-Jitsu, boxing wrestling and from the FMA's learned from those of Philippine heritage serving in the USMC.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 14, 2009)

For all intents and purposes the term 'empty hand' when discussing the military is a misnomer.......even though you're technically not 'unarmed' using a shovel, rock, knife, etc......falls under the same overall category as empty hand, and the line is pretty blurred.

In the pacific campaign I suspect that there came much more opportunity for empty hand/improvised weapon fighting than we would consider the norm in modern warfare..........given such tactics as Japanese infiltrations in the middle of the night.


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## arnisador (Mar 14, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> It's important to denigrate and dehumanize folks you are soon going to be grabbing around the neck and killing.



In fact I don't disagree at all. Desensitizing the soldiers serves a clear purpose. One hopes the average 18 year old isn't very excited about killing other humans who he doesn't even know--some psychological preparation for the action, and for dealing it afterwards, is valuable.

What struck me was how they were appropriating (and, in effect, praising) their techniques while talking the Japanese down at the same time. It was somewhat incongruous.


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 15, 2009)

arnisador said:


> In fact I don't disagree at all. Desensitizing the soldiers serves a clear purpose. One hopes the average 18 year old isn't very excited about killing other humans who he doesn't even know--some psychological preparation for the action, and for dealing it afterwards, is valuable.
> 
> What struck me was how they were appropriating (and, in effect, praising) their techniques while talking the Japanese down at the same time. It was somewhat incongruous.



It is ironic, i'll agree.  But, I happen to be one of those folks who has no problem disliking someone, but also acknowledging something useful that they do or know, and learning that from them.  

To me there is no contradiction between disliking, or even HATING someone personally, and still wanting to know how to do something that they do well.

Conversely, i've noticed that my attitude on the matter seems to be in the minority......i've noticed that most folks, when they dislike or hate someone, tend to turn that hatred in to a whole sale hatred of everything about that person.  When they hate them, the tend to denigrate everything about them, and refuse to acknowledge anything good about them, or that they do well.  

Take the classic 'Nazi fallacy'.........folks hate the Nazis, and rightfully so, but they also tend to have a knee jerk hatred of anything that gets linked with the Nazis, as in 'The Nazis did X, so X must be bad, and I should dislike X'.  Me, I have the opinion that just because the Nazis did X, doesn't speak anything about X other than the Nazis found it useful.  If X isn't what made the Nazis bad, then there is nothing wrong with X.


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## chinto (Mar 24, 2009)

Omar B said:


> You'll be glad to know I didnt hit one of our nations heros.  I'll never punch a soldier, cop, firefighter ... nuns, that a whole other story.




hay man you punch a nun at your own risk!!!


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