# Why are we not talking about this?!



## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...for-public-lewdness-after-reporting-rape?lite

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-mo-girl-expelled-for-making-rape-claim/

Punishing the victim...

Normally we are outraged when this happens.

When it happens to Western Woman in a Mid Eastern country...

Instead we talk about the believes of some guy in the swamps of the South East, if it wasn't for 'Reality TV' nobody would give a rip and nobody would have ever asked him. 

And normally billy is the first to yell 'Sharia Law'
If punishing the victim isn't it....


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## Drasken (Dec 23, 2013)

granfire said:


> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...for-public-lewdness-after-reporting-rape?lite
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-mo-girl-expelled-for-making-rape-claim/
> 
> ...



Once again I make the comment "Welcome to America, the nation of people brainwashed by TV."
Most people allow others to think for them, and this isn't what people want to focus on. Rape is a HUGE issue, and it is ignored. Especially because people just don't think it affects them, especially in the minds of men. Which is completely untrue. I know 4 women who have been raped, and 2 men who have as well. It is a widespread and serious issue that I agree should not be ignored.


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## aedrasteia (Dec 23, 2013)

granfire said:


> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...for-public-lewdness-after-reporting-rape?lite
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-mo-girl-expelled-for-making-rape-claim/
> 
> Punishing the victim...  Normally we are outraged when this happens.
> ...



Hey Gran.  thanks so much for putting this where MTs have to see it.

Not much outrage unless we generate it and keep focused on the thousands of assaults
like this one.  

I've been on call 6x this month and will be tomorrow and day after Christmas.
this is not an exception or an unusual situation.  
Things are better in my service area: 5 counties, 17 separate LE jurisdictions, 9 hospitals to cover.

But prosecutions and investigations and treatment of survivors 
are better because we _made_ the institutions and the people
do better. Some of them had to be forced through every means we could use, 
and it took years.  I'm proud we didn't back down and didn't shut up.

"Stranger" rapes/assaults are so rare we call each other when they happen.

Sexual assaults, molestations, incest, lewd acts on kids under 12 - all by 'friends', dads, uncles, cousins
"AKTV" (assailant known to victim) are what happens every hour of every day  24/7, 365.

What a strong, resilient young woman, to come back from this repulsive response by the institutions.
my deep respect to her family and supporters and to the young man who now stands with her.

The MAs (here on MT and all over the web) debate 'RBSD'. 
This case is real 'Reality'. 
This is where my POV on SD4W starts and forms 99 per cent of what and how we prepare.

thanks again Gran. I'll be sharing this w/some survivors and their families.
with respect,


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## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

On top of being violated they also get crucified?

I posted this on another forum, the ladies are busy bickering about the assault on their Christian faith because somebody somewhere altered the lyrics of a Christmas carol...or the clerk at the store wishes them 'Happy Holidays', liken themselves to the Christians being killed in Syria and Iraq...

A young girl being persecuted for being victim of a crime garnered 2 responses, TWO....

What the hell Effed up culture do we live in?!


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## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

aedrasteia said:


> Hey Gran.  thanks so much for putting this where MTs have to see it.
> 
> Not much outrage unless we generate it and keep focused on the thousands of assaults
> like this one.
> ...



Please keep up the good work!
Right now - even with Christmas  carols in my ear, I am about to lose it. This is impossible to ignore!


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## Drasken (Dec 23, 2013)

granfire said:


> On top of being violated they also get crucified?
> 
> I posted this on another forum, the ladies are busy bickering about the assault on their Christian faith because somebody somewhere altered the lyrics of a Christmas carol...or the clerk at the store wishes them 'Happy Holidays', liken themselves to the Christians being killed in Syria and Iraq...
> 
> ...



People feel more justified in their hate of others when they can somehow turn themselves into the poor beaten down victims. It's not surprising that the outspoken conservatives claim to be attacked for their faith and turn something as innocent as a non denominational holiday greeting into a huge issue.

As for this case, it really is quite disheartening to see that nobody mentions this or makes many comments toward it. You look at comments on news articles and you will see thousands of comments about non issues that make no difference. Who cares what this movie star, or that singer did? Apparently everyone. But who cares about victims of violent crime, or laws and policies that affect all of our lives? Practically nobody.
What is even more sad, is the people that DO comment on these things generally spin it to an agenda having little to do with the topic.

I thank you for bringing this up, and it is indeed something I am very involved with. I know far too many victims to sit back and ignore this. Sadly my State is horrible about investigation and persecution of rape, and it is not uncommon for victims that report such attacks to be put on trial or questioned like criminals or "attention seekers". It's despicable.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Because #1 Schools Suck nothing surprises us anymore after a kid can get kicked out for eating a poptart wrong #2 usually more to stories like this then is reported #3 Shes not famous.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Drasken said:


> Once again I make the comment "Welcome to America, the nation of people brainwashed by TV."
> Most people allow others to think for them, and this isn't what people want to focus on. Rape is a HUGE issue, and it is ignored. Especially because people just don't think it affects them, especially in the minds of men. Which is completely untrue. I know 4 women who have been raped, and 2 men who have as well. It is a widespread and serious issue that I agree should not be ignored.


Where in the world do you live Prison? Other then at work I know nobody that's been raped.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Where in the world do you live Prison? Other then at work I know nobody that's been raped.



Really? Are you sure? Have you considered the possibility that you *do*, but they are, for many possible reasons, unwilling to reveal this fact to you?


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Drasken said:


> People feel more justified in their hate of others when they can somehow turn themselves into the poor beaten down victims. It's not surprising that the outspoken conservatives claim to be attacked for their faith and turn something as innocent as a non denominational holiday greeting into a huge issue.


:BSmeter:


> As for this case, it really is quite disheartening to see that nobody mentions this or makes many comments toward it. You look at comments on news articles and you will see thousands of comments about non issues that make no difference. Who cares what this movie star, or that singer did? Apparently everyone. But who cares about victims of violent crime, or laws and policies that affect all of our lives? Practically nobody.
> What is even more sad, is the people that DO comment on these things generally spin it to an agenda having little to do with the topic.


Its done on purpose.  Right now its all Duck Dynasty talk all over they place meanwhile they quietly cut pensions for disabled vets.  Bait and Switch  Nothing to see here move along


> I thank you for bringing this up, and it is indeed something I am very involved with. I know far too many victims to sit back and ignore this. Sadly my State is horrible about investigation and persecution of rape, and it is not uncommon for victims that report such attacks to be put on trial or questioned like criminals or "attention seekers". It's despicable.


 Ive seen some horrific questions asked to victims by lawyers Once I got so pissed I cussed the lawyer out after the trial.  She said "Just doing my job nothing personal"


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Really? Are you sure? Have you considered the possibility that you *do*, but they are, for many possible reasons, unwilling to reveal this fact to you?


No Im sure I was molested as a kid by a neighbor but that's it.   If your not in the business then to personally know that many victims is rare.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> No Im on my couch not prison but If your not in the business then to personally know that many victims is rare.



I'm not in law enforcement (which I presume is what you mean by "the business") and yet I know at least a dozen women who have been the victim of various sorts of sexual assault. That's not including the ones I see professionally.


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## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Where in the world do you live Prison? Other then at work I know nobody that's been raped.



You really might be surprised...
they say one in four women gets assaulted...I doubt the number is really that high...but for what it's worth, my own mom was attacked by somebody she trusted and considered a friend. 
Somebody who had the nerve to tell me (at the tender age of about 16) to tell my mother that he was sorry....I don't know how far he got, I know it never went past my sister and I in terms of reporting! 
I am sure guys talk even less about these things. 

In the same note, the announcement that sexual attack reports in the Armed Forces would be taken more serious as per law disappeared off the MSN headlines within hours. I was unable to find it again. Yeah for the ladies to spearhead the action, but there are still way more guys being assaulted than gals, even if the % don't show that.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> I'm not in law enforcement (which I presume is what you mean by "the business") and yet I know at least a dozen women who have been the victim of various sorts of sexual assault. That's not including the ones I see professionally.



Not just law enforcement I ment Medical professionals, counselors, law enforcement, lawyers, ect.. The Business.  Man I must live in a great area then if all you guys know so many victims personally.  I know of victims around but Im talking friends and family members.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Not just law enforcement I ment Medical professionals, counselors, law enforcement, lawyers, ect.. The Business.  Man I must live in a great area then if all you guys know so many victims personally.  I know of victims around but Im talking friends and family members.



Again, perhaps you should consider the possibility that you know more victims than you realize.


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## Tgace (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Again, perhaps you should consider the possibility that you know more victims than you realize.



Perhaps all of us should consider alternate possibilities....

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


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## Drasken (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Where in the world do you live Prison? Other then at work I know nobody that's been raped.



My wife is a survivor of rape, I have 2 friends that were raped at parties in college, I have a male friend that was drugged by a  woman and raped while incapable of fighting back. She actually cut him several times and was very violent. He didn't report it despite being urged to by several people because of the idea that guys can't be raped.
I HAVE a few others that I won't even mention because I swore to never speak of it and I take that seriously.
I am very open and understanding. People come to me with their problems and know I don't judge. But you would be surprised at how many of these survivors have hidden this from their own families.

It isn't easy to deal with, and while I know people who have come forward I can guarantee we all, myself included, know people that have NOT come forward as well.

As for living in a prison? No, I don't. But I HAVE lived in horrible areas filled with crime. I don't anymore, my life and area I live in are pretty average. And most of the rape survivors I know come from this area. An upper middle class community.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

granfire said:


> You really might be surprised...
> they say one in four women gets assaulted...I doubt the number is really that high.


Yeah that sounds really high I work in a college town and its no where near 1 in 4 woman. we average 15 rapes a year.  Now state law here is a little different and some things considered Rape in some states isn't a rape here.  For example only a female can be actually Raped.  We have 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th degree Rape and 2st 3nd 4rd 4th degree Sex offenses. Penalty's are identical just the wording is different 



> ...but for what it's worth, my own mom was attacked by somebody she trusted and considered a friend Somebody who had the nerve to tell me (at the tender age of about 16) to tell my mother that he was sorry....I don't know how far he got, I know it never went past my sister and I in terms of reporting!
> I am sure guys talk even less about these things.


I was sexually molested when I was 8 and 9 but I never reported anything.  Still never told my parents they would be devastated because they used him as a babysitter and I wouldn't want them to blame themselves.  I will say I have taken quite a few males reporting sexual assaults so I think they are starting to report if more then before



> In the same note, the announcement that sexual attack reports in the Armed Forces would be taken more serious as per law disappeared off the MSN headlines within hours. I was unable to find it again. Yeah for the ladies to spearhead the action, but there are still way more guys being assaulted than gals, even if the % don't show that.


See I was in the Infantry so we never worked with woman so I never saw sexual harassment or assaults in the military.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> Again, perhaps you should consider the possibility that you know more victims than you realize.



Yes I forgot you know best sorry dad


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## Drasken (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Not just law enforcement I ment Medical professionals, counselors, law enforcement, lawyers, ect.. The Business.  Man I must live in a great area then if all you guys know so many victims personally.  I know of victims around but Im talking friends and family members.



As for "The Business" I am a certified nurse aid who has worked in the medical field for a while and I'm going to school for psychology. I am also very involved with support groups and help in my community as much as possible.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> Yes I forgot you know best sorry dad



I didn't really think you'd ever consider reevaluating your assumptions, but it was worth a try.


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Dog said:


> I didn't really think you'd ever consider reevaluating your assumptions, but it was worth a try.


Says the guy making assumptions about me lol classic  I forgot you know more about me and my friends and family then I do  :wink1:


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## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> See I was in the Infantry so we never worked with woman so I never saw sexual harassment or assaults in the military.


It might be the women spearheading the initiative, but guys get raped just the same...the % numbers are lacking, but by over all numbers, I am assuming way more guys get it than gals...and that is going by reported numbers....I wish I could find this snippet again, but it was gone off the front page so quickly, it wasn't even real!


And I am thinking a lot of guys think the way you did: I don't want X to feel bad because....
BTW, I have heard a lot of little boys get violated by their female babysitters...

I sure wish the world would have stayed as simple as in Beaver Cleaver land....


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## ballen0351 (Dec 23, 2013)

granfire said:


> It might be the women spearheading the initiative, but guys get raped just the same...the % numbers are lacking, but by over all numbers, I am assuming way more guys get it than gals...and that is going by reported numbers....I wish I could find this snippet again, but it was gone off the front page so quickly, it wasn't even real!


I never saw anything like that either.  We had some hazing issues but never sexual issues.  Not saying it doesn't happen but we had 3 or 4 guys in a room so nothing like that happened that I ever knew or heard.  We did have a few military guys where I work come in and report some incidents that happened in our bar district but the aggressors were not in the military.  It usually involved older men buying them lots of drinks and then trying to take it sexual. 


> And I am thinking a lot of guys think the way you did: I don't want X to feel bad because....
> BTW, I have heard a lot of little boys get violated by their female babysitters...
> 
> I sure wish the world would have stayed as simple as in Beaver Cleaver land....


Naa not a female it was her adult son he was like 18 at the time.  Last I heard hes doing life in prison for a bunch of rapes in Virginia.  Sometimes I feel bad I didn't say anything to prevent his future crimes but I was young I didn't know any better


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## granfire (Dec 23, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> I never saw anything like that either.  We had some hazing issues but never sexual issues.  Not saying it doesn't happen but we had 3 or 4 guys in a room so nothing like that happened that I ever knew or heard.  We did have a few military guys where I work come in and report some incidents that happened in our bar district but the aggressors were not in the military.  It usually involved older men buying them lots of drinks and then trying to take it sexual.
> 
> Naa not a female it was her adult son he was like 18 at the time.  Last I heard hes doing life in prison for a bunch of rapes in Virginia.  Sometimes I feel bad I didn't say anything to prevent his future crimes but I was young I didn't know any better



Hindsight is always 20/20....could have would have should have....
I sometimes wonder about this little girl I went to elementary school with...playing 'friend' naked....to me it was nothing weird...but now, 40 years later, I wonder....


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## billc (Dec 24, 2013)

A lot of children are also kidnapped and murdered each year but only a few make national headlines...do we have to talk about each one?  I think we all agree that people who kidnap and murder children should be captured, convicted, and for me...put to death.

In the case of this girl...if what she says is true...which does need to be looked at...Duke Lacrosse team anyone?  I believe quite a few people had those guys not only guilty but thought a trial would be unnecessary and that they should be sent directly to jail...until it turned out the "victim" was lying her *** off...and as it turns out, last month was herself convicted of murder.   If true, the guys who sexually assaulted this girl need to go to jail, and the school officials who didn't help her need to be punished as well...is that good enough here?


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## Drasken (Dec 24, 2013)

billc said:


> A lot of children are also kidnapped and murdered each year but only a few make national headlines...do we have to talk about each one?  I think we all agree that people who kidnap and murder children should be captured, convicted, and for me...put to death.
> 
> In the case of this girl...if what she says is true...which does need to be looked at...Duke Lacrosse team anyone?  I believe quite a few people had those guys not only guilty but thought a trial would be unnecessary and that they should be sent directly to jail...until it turned out the "victim" was lying her *** off...and as it turns out, last month was herself convicted of murder.   If true, the guys who sexually assaulted this girl need to go to jail, and the school officials who didn't help her need to be punished as well...is that good enough here?



Another good point actually. While I feel that victims of ANY violent crime should be treated fairly, the accused should be as well. Innocent until PROVEN guilty is no longer true in many cases.
I just think compassion, and honest investigation is needed. Do people lie about being raped? Sure, I can admit that it happens. But treating a person like they are wrong, or lieing before proof is presented... That's BS.


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## Carol (Dec 24, 2013)

granfire said:


> It might be the women spearheading the initiative, but guys get raped just the same...the % numbers are lacking, but by over all numbers, I am assuming way more guys get it than gals...and that is going by reported numbers....I wish I could find this snippet again, but it was gone off the front page so quickly, it wasn't even real!



It depends on how the statistics are reported.

There are a couple of factors here.  One is, the feds changing their definition of rape from a specific set of sexual assaults involving a male perp and a female victim, to a wider set of assaults that are not gender specific.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/h...e-for-rape-awareness.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Another, crime statistics typcally do not include sexual assaults that occur in prison. If that number is included, it has been posited that men outnumber women as rape victims.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/men-outnumber-women-among-american-rape-victims/


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## granfire (Dec 24, 2013)

billc said:


> A lot of children are also kidnapped and murdered each year but only a few make national headlines...do we have to talk about each one?  I think we all agree that people who kidnap and murder children should be captured, convicted, and for me...put to death.


This has not the slightest anything to do with the topic at hand. 



> In the case of this girl...if what she says is true...which does need to be looked at...Duke Lacrosse team anyone?  I believe quite a few people had those guys not only guilty but thought a trial would be unnecessary and that they should be sent directly to jail...until it turned out the "victim" was lying her *** off...and as it turns out, last month was herself convicted of murder.   If true, the guys who sexually assaulted this girl need to go to jail, and the school officials who didn't help her need to be punished as well...is that good enough here?


And even this barely touches the topic....


The point is when the victims of the crime are criminalized and punished.

I suppose it is very lewd to be raped in a public place (school), but not by the victim! 

The enraging point is when a little girl _in middle school_ gets raped not once, but twice. 
That alone is a travesty. 'Oh, she's been through this before' what kind of reaction is that on the side of the school officials?! 


Yes, it is despicable for even one single false allegation of assault to exist.
That does not mean you can sweep all under the rug, proclaiming the victims are lying!


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2013)

Drasken said:


> Do people lie about being raped? Sure, I can admit that it happens. But treating a person like they are wrong, or lieing before proof is presented... That's BS.



In my experience we getas many if not  more false claims then actual claims.  Even more with younger woman and children.  Most of our false claims come from one parent trying to win custody from another parent in a divorce or young teens who's parent finds out their daughter had sex and the kid freaks out and claims something happened


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2013)

Carol said:


> It depends on how the statistics are reported.
> 
> There are a couple of factors here.  One is, the feds changing their definition of rape from a specific set of sexual assaults involving a male perp and a female victim, to a wider set of assaults that are not gender specific.
> 
> ...



Yeah in my state only woman can be "raped". Men would be victims of sexual assault. Penalty is the same either way just wording is different


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## ballen0351 (Dec 24, 2013)

granfire said:


> This has not the slightest anything to do with the topic at hand.
> 
> 
> And even this barely touches the topic....
> ...



In the OP I think there is more to this story then is being told.  There is a reason no prosecution was done and I'm sure it was more then "well he said it was consentual".


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## donald1 (Dec 24, 2013)

I don't know why they wouldn't talk about that it sounds awful,  is it possible there trying to ignore it like it's not happening.  Or maybe there's another possibility we just haven't considered yet...


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## granfire (Dec 24, 2013)

ballen0351 said:


> In my experience we getas many if not  more false claims then actual claims.  Even more with younger woman and children.  Most of our false claims come from one parent trying to win custody from another parent in a divorce or young teens who's parent finds out their daughter had sex and the kid freaks out and claims something happened



Signs of a warped social fabric...
in line with chewed up gum, etc...and heaps of denial.


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## Tgace (Dec 24, 2013)

granfire said:


> Signs of a warped social fabric...
> in line with chewed up gum, etc...and heaps of denial.



http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## granfire (Dec 24, 2013)

Tgace said:


> http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2



I will have to go back and read all of it. It about coincides with what I figured, the numbers are grossly exaggerated (to fit the agenda, of course)

But there is the point of women being attacked by people they know and trusted. 
Hence also tend to not report...probably with the thought in mind 'must have been my fault' or whatever else the other side can throw at them. 

But it still is far off the mark when victims get punished. So to an extend we do have a 'rape culture' 
you get more sympathy breaking a nail!


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 8, 2014)

Tgace said:


> http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2



Thanks for this.  Quoting it here so I can refer back to it when I get home.


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