# Drill 1 step 1 punch 1000 times



## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 27, 2018)

Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here. 

For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 28, 2018)

Ah awesome, absolutely love the idea...

I think max we've done in the dojo was 200 or so and that was stationary. And a 1000 kicks onto a pad fundraiser thing.

I reckon that's a great practice, I know if ever I've done a lot of basics, I always learn something new about it, and you really get to hone in and focus on the subtleties of it, rather than just try to 'crank them out'.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has done it, AND how long it took them!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> I'd be curious to know if anyone has done it, AND how long it took them!


I have done the XingYi Beng Chuan non-stop for 1 miles on the beach. IMO, it's the easiest "1 step 1 punch" than all the other 1 step 1 punch that I can think of.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 28, 2018)

Ah wow nice, yeah still would be draining to do for a mile. Wow, it's really refreshing watching that style of martial arts, so different to karate (what I'm used to). I can't imagine doing 1000 lunge punches in zenkutsu dachi (forward leaning stance) though XD


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here.
> 
> For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.


I do this crap all the time.


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## Buka (Jan 28, 2018)

I'm confused. I have no idea about what's being talked about.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 28, 2018)

Buka said:


> I'm confused. I have no idea about what's being talked about.


Maybe it's beyond your Ken, Po.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2018)

I don't think I've ever done 1,000 repetitions of any single thing without changing tasks, unless we count steps when walking/running.

I don't think I ever will. I get bored long before I'd get to 1,000. My personal max is probably closer to 100 at a time.


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## Danny T (Jan 28, 2018)

Haven't done a step through lunge punch quite like shown for a 1000 times, but had done 1000's of Jab punches.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 28, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Haven't done a step through lunge punch quite like shown for a 1000 times, but had done 1000's of Jab punches.


It may be time to take the, Step Through Lunge Plunge.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here.
> 
> For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.



1000 time non-stop...no

But I did take a 5 week period and train
Piquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day (All 5 elements done right side 100 left side 100 so total of 200)
Zuanquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day
Bengquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day
Paoquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day
Hengquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day

Also rotated through all 5 elements for about a 1/2 mile in a covered walk way from my office to the capital building..... sure the Police enjoyed the last 100 feet since that is what the security camera is watching. It was a couple hours before lunch so I was the only one on the walkway. Just realized part of that is walled by glass as it crosses a road.... likely gave anyone who saw that a show too.



> I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who had practiced one kick 10,000 times



And Bengquan on a beach seems like it would be harder than on hard ground.... I'd try it. but I am about 4 hours, by car not Bengquan , from a beach


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2018)

Also

Back when I briefly trained the Police/Military version of Sanda, my shifu wanted me to train absolutely everything in 500 per leg/arm repetitions, including palm strikes on trees... I only did 100 to 150... he was not happy..... possibly another reason why I no longer train the style


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> And Bengquan on a beach seems like it would be harder than on hard ground.... I'd try it. but I am about 4 hours, by car not Bengquan , from a beach


How long by Bengquan?


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> How long by Bengquan?



I'm thinking about 60 to 80 hours...depending on whether or not I stop for lunch


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## skribs (Jan 28, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I don't think I've ever done 1,000 repetitions of any single thing without changing tasks, unless we count steps when walking/running.
> 
> I don't think I ever will. I get bored long before I'd get to 1,000. My personal max is probably closer to 100 at a time.



That's my problem with running.  I get bored long before I get to a mile.


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## Balrog (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here.
> 
> For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.


I realize it's a different style and all, but it looks like he's punching twice per step.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2018)

skribs said:


> That's my problem with running.  I get bored long before I get to a mile.


Oddly, that's the one place it doesn't happen. When I could run distance (currently out of running shape, and my joints may no longer be capable of 5+ miles), I could run 7 miles or more and just let my mind wander.


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## Martial D (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here.
> 
> For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.



Maybe not exactly 1000, but I often devote whole sessions to one strike or technique.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

skribs said:


> That's my problem with running.  I get bored long before I get to a mile.


I have tried to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop MA drill. Instead of using number of reps, I like to use the distance to judge my effort. Here are what I have found out.

To repeat the following drills N times non-stop.

1. jumping kick,
2. non-jumping kick,
3. foot sweep,
4. punch,

For the amount of energy spent, 1 > 2 > 3 > 4


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

Buka said:


> I'm confused. I have no idea about what's being talked about.


I have read the following:

When you train the XingYi Pi Chuan (or any punching drill), your arm will go out and then pull back. It's like 1 exhale and 1 inhale. After you have drilled this for 500 meters (assume 1 punch takes 1/2 meter, 500 meters takes about 1000 punches), you breathing will be long, smooth, and deep. Your energy will be built up. You then start to understand the "body breathing". If you have any physical problem, this training can cure that problem. When you get old, your body will be weaker. This training can make your body strong.

I believe to use punch out and pull back as breath out and breath in to coordinate body move with breathing is the main training here.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 28, 2018)

I’ve done high rep sessions, doing a couple different types of punches 1000 times each.  I tend to do them in segments.

The thing is, high repetition needs to be balanced against fatigue.  As you tire, your technique begins to deteriorate.  Eventually it is just poor and sloppy technique and that is not good training.

So I don’t advise doing all the reps together.  Break it up, switch it around, do things to manage the fatigue issue so the quality of your efforts remains high.  Sure, push the limits on endurance but not to the point where it is just sloppy.


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## Buka (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have read the following:
> 
> When you train the XingYi Pi Chuan (or any punching drill), your arm will go out and then pull back. It's like 1 exhale and 1 inhale. After you have drilled this for 500 meters (assume 1 punch takes 1/2 meter, 500 meters takes about 1000 punches), you breathing will be long, smooth, and deep. Your energy will be built up. You then start to understand the "body breathing". If you have any physical problem, this training can cure that problem. When you get old, your body will be weaker. This training can make your body strong.
> 
> I believe to use punch out and pull back as breath out and breath in to coordinate body move with breathing is the main training here.



Ah, now I get it. Thanks, bro.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> how long it took them!


I'm going to drill 1000 punches non-stop and see how long that will take (after my lunch has been digested). Since I have to coordinate my punch with my breathing, I assume it will be like slow jogging instead of fast springing.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I tend to do them in segments.


Some study said that when you walk 8 miles, in the 1st 4 miles, your body starts to detect your problem. In the 2nd 4 miles, your body start to fix your problem. I strongly believe in that.

I like to wrestle for 15 rounds non-stop. In the last 5 rounds, I don't have any "brute force" left on my body.

I'm not sure to do them in segments can have the same result or not.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

I like his Pi Chuan better.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I like his Pi Chuan better.



Hai Yang is in Montreal and very good at Xingyiquan.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> I'd be curious to know if anyone has done it, AND how long it took them!


I just did XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times in 42 minutes before I sat back down on my computer. I did 100 punches and turned around. I made 5 loops total (1 loop = 200 punches). After this I'm not even breath hard. I think I can still repeat another 1000 punches without any problem.

I think I'll replace my 3 miles running by 1000 punches from now on. I will try 1000 foot sweeps as well. Not sure 1000 kicks can be good for my knee joint.

After my senior SC brother had heart attack last Christmas (also after my 70 years old birthday), I start to pay more attention on health than just fighting.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> 1000 time non-stop...no
> 
> But I did take a 5 week period and train
> Piquan 100 times a day, non-stop for 7 day (All 5 elements done right side 100 left side 100 so total of 200)
> ...



Ah wow, much respect.. would love to devote a certain period to training like that!




Xue Sheng said:


> Also
> 
> Back when I briefly trained the Police/Military version of Sanda, my shifu wanted me to train absolutely everything in 500 per leg/arm repetitions, including palm strikes on trees... I only did 100 to 150... he was not happy..... possibly another reason why I no longer train the style



Ah wow.. Yeah there are some hard styles out there...



gpseymour said:


> Oddly, that's the one place it doesn't happen. When I could run distance (currently out of running shape, and my joints may no longer be capable of 5+ miles), I could run 7 miles or more and just let my mind wander.



There's something about running hey... when you get in the 'zone' and 



Martial D said:


> Maybe not exactly 1000, but I often devote whole sessions to one strike or technique.



Love it... I've devoted whole sessions to a single kata before, it's great fun, and just working on different ways to train it and different aspects to focus on (focus exclusively on breathing rhythms, soft/hard balance, stances, posture..)



Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have tried to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop MA drill. Instead of using number of reps, I like to use the distance to judge my effort. Here are what I have found out.
> 
> To repeat the following drills N times non-stop.
> 
> ...



Am getting some great ideas from this thread! Would be great to just shadowspar for a set distance, but would be quite tiring I'd imagine..



Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have read the following:
> 
> When you train the XingYi Pi Chuan (or any punching drill), your arm will go out and then pull back. It's like 1 exhale and 1 inhale. After you have drilled this for 500 meters (assume 1 punch takes 1/2 meter, 500 meters takes about 1000 punches), you breathing will be long, smooth, and deep. Your energy will be built up. You then start to understand the "body breathing". If you have any physical problem, this training can cure that problem. When you get old, your body will be weaker. This training can make your body strong.
> 
> I believe to use punch out and pull back as breath out and breath in to coordinate body move with breathing is the main training here.



That's awesome.. it's such an important thing to work on. So I'm not sure if the breathing is different here compared to what I'm used to, is it exhaling out with the technique, and inhaling during the step forward? I'd love to do a drill like this within a karate technique context, we usually breathe out with the technique which is pretty standard in most places I'd think,  and breathing in just comes before it at some stage



Kung Fu Wang said:


> I just did XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times in 42 minutes before I sat back down on my computer. I did 100 punches and turned around. I made 5 loops total (1 loop = 200 punches). After this I'm not even breath hard. I think I can still repeat another 1000 punches without any problem.
> 
> I think I'll replace my 3 miles running by 1000 punches from now on. I will try 1000 foot sweeps as well. Not sure 1000 kicks can be good for my knee joint.
> 
> After my senior SC brother had heart attack last Christmas (also after my 70 years old birthday), I start to pay more attention on health than just fighting.



Ah much respect, here we are talking about it and you just go ahead and do it, nice! Wow I honestly thought it would take so much longer than 42 minutes!


I know I quoted 7 times... Surely that's illegal. I'M SORRY!


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> I honestly thought it would take so much longer than 42 minutes!


42 minutes = 42 x 60 = 2520 second. 2520 second / 1000 = 2.5 second.

It takes 2.5 second to repeat 1 punching drill while coordinate with breathing is about right.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I'm going to drill 1000 punches non-stop and see how long that will take (after my lunch has been digested). Since I have to coordinate my punch with my breathing, I assume it will be like slow jogging instead of fast springing.


Let me know at what number your quality has become sloppy.  I’ll guess it could be around 300 if you’ve been practicing a lot.  Otherwise it could be much less.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Let me know at what number your quality has become sloppy.  I’ll guess it could be around 300 if you’ve been practicing a lot.  Otherwise it could be much less.


Here is my personal experience today (about 3 hours ago). The more that I punched, the better that I felt. My last 300 punches were even better than my first 300 punches. My body just did it automatically without thinking. At the end of 1000 punches, my body had more energy than before I started the drill. It was a good feeling. As I have said, I think I can drill 2000 punches non-stop without any problem. I had done my punching drill on the beach for 1 miles. That's more than 2000 punches.

1 miles = 1609 meter
2 punches per meter, 1609 x 2 = 3218 punches.

It may only works for punches. Not sure it will work for kicks. IMO, a kick will take 3 times more energy than a punch will take.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 28, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I just did XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times in 42 minutes before I sat back down on my computer. I did 100 punches and turned around. I made 5 loops total (1 loop = 200 punches). After this I'm not even breath hard. I think I can still repeat another 1000 punches without any problem.
> 
> I think I'll replace my 3 miles running by 1000 punches from now on. I will try 1000 foot sweeps as well. Not sure 1000 kicks can be good for my knee joint.
> 
> After my senior SC brother had heart attack last Christmas (also after my 70 years old birthday), I start to pay more attention on health than just fighting.


I don't think I've developed my arm joints to withstand that many punches. The more I think about it, the more I doubt my shoulders would come out okay, and the more certain I am I'd end up with tendinitis in my arms (if I didn't have it already, that is). Perhaps if I'd done more of this along the way, I'd not be going through the joint issues in my arms today.

Or maybe my elbow and shoulder joints are just as crappy as my knee and ankle joints.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I don't think I've developed my arm joints to withstand that many punches.


There is difference between fast spring (for speed) and slow jogging (for endurance). I believe 1000 punches is like slow jogging.

There is also different between a punch that you can

- see the power, and
- don't see the power.

Some people may call that external punch vs. internal punch. Since I'm allergy to the term "internal", I prefer to call that you punch when you

- think about power, and
- don't think about power.

When you don't think about power and just let your body to do it, it will take less energy. May be the following 2 similar punches do take different amount of energy.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 28, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah wow, much respect.. would love to devote a certain period to training like that!



Pick something and do it, that is what I did. Got the idea from Sensei Ando's website.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 28, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I don't think I've developed my arm joints to withstand that many punches.


If you drill "1 step 3 punches" 1000 times, you may hurt your arm joints. But if you drill "1 step 1 punch", since your body is pushing your arm, it will put less pressure on your arm joints. In other words, to drill "1 step 1 punch" can be like to put your arms behind your back and just use your body to punch. I think there is a big difference there.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 28, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I don't think I've developed my arm joints to withstand that many punches. The more I think about it, the more I doubt my shoulders would come out okay, and the more certain I am I'd end up with tendinitis in my arms (if I didn't have it already, that is). Perhaps if I'd done more of this along the way, I'd not be going through the joint issues in my arms today.
> 
> Or maybe my elbow and shoulder joints are just as crappy as my knee and ankle joints.


If you do this right, it should heal your shoulder.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Let me know at what number your quality has become sloppy.  I’ll guess it could be around 300 if you’ve been practicing a lot.  Otherwise it could be much less.



The idea, with what I did was to make sure all were correct. In the beginning it is easy to let things slide, especially if you are getting tired or in a hurry. But by day 7 I'd would have worked to getting most, if not all correct.

I imagine if you extend that out to 1000 it is a similar thing, but you have to pay close attention and not let yourself slide on anything. In the beginning many will be sloppy, but as you work with it the goal "should be" to get most or all correct.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

The XingYi dragon is similar to the XingYi Pi Chuan. It just adds into an extra kick. I'll try to drill XingYi dragon 1000 times non-stop. But I can expect it can be much more difficult just because that extra kick. Will it be a good idea to kick 1000 times non-stop? It may not be good for my knee joint.

XingYi Pi Chuan:






XingYi dragon:


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Let me know at what number your quality has become sloppy.  I’ll guess it could be around 300 if you’ve been practicing a lot.  Otherwise it could be much less.



I realize I quoted you and answered this before but I was reading "Philosophy of Martial Arts" from Shen Wu and this paragraph is very applicable to this type of training

Philosophy of Martial Arts



> It is a fact known to every student that the amount of information absorbed and retained through focused awareness is far greater than the amount absorbed through mindless repetition. I'm sure you have had the experience of reading a page in a book while thinking of something else, only to realize as you turned the page that you had no idea what you just read (although you read every word). No matter how many times you read the same page without focused awareness, you will still not absorb and retain the information contained therein. So it is with the practice of martial technique. Mindless repetition of technical movements may qualify as exercise, but the vast majority of time spent in practice of this type is wasted as far as internalizing useful patterns of movement is concerned. On the other hand, focused awareness on the practice at hand maximizes the time spent in practice, allowing one to internalize techniques in the shortest amount of time, as well as guarding against the negligent acquisition of unwanted habits.* In short, the most efficient method of training for internalizing martial technique involves mind and body unity, with the mind (intent) actively aware of and guiding the movement of the body. The goal is to maintain conscious awareness of the thought process (the mind in the brain) as well as the kinesthetic sense (the mind in the body). The key is awareness." Focusing this awareness on what we are doing is the method of efficient practice*.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The XingYi dragon is similar to the XingYi Pi Chuan. It just adds into an extra kick. I'll try to drill XingYi dragon 1000 times non-stop. But I can expect it can be much more difficult just because that extra kick. Will it be a good idea to kick 1000 times non-stop? It may not be good for my knee joint.
> 
> XingYi Pi Chuan:
> 
> ...



Beng quan turn is very similar to the dragon kick


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## Flying Crane (Jan 29, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I realize I quoted you and answered this before but I was reading "Philosophy of Martial Arts" from Shen Wu and this paragraph is very applicable to this type of training
> 
> Philosophy of Martial Arts


Yup, it boils down to quality over quantity.

Now there is an argument to say that a greater quantity of high quality is better than a lesser quantity of equally high quality.  This is true, but conditioning and fatigue then becomes a deciding factor.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Have you ever drilled "1 step 1 punch" 1000 times non-stop? Please share your experience here.
> 
> For example, to repeat XingYi Pi Chuan 1000 times (about 500 meters) non-stop.


I'm not a fan of drilling something 1000 times


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Beng quan turn is very similar to the dragon kick


When you do your Pi, do you

- inhale when you right fist go out as Tsuan, and
- exhale when your left palm go out as Pi.

or 

- inhale and exhale when you right fist go out as Tsuan, and
- inhale and exhale when your left palm go out as Pi?

If I use the 

- 1st method, my breathing will be slow. I don't generate much power in Tsuan. My Tsuan is only used to set up Pi.
-  2nd method, my breathing will be a bit faster. But I can generate power in both Tsuan and Pi.

In other words, do you like to consider Pi as 2 moves (Tsuan and Pi), or just Pi?

Just wonder which way do you prefer?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm not a fan of drilling something 1000 times


I just started to do this in 2018. I try to compare which drill I can do 1000 times and which drill I can't and find out why. For those drills that I have hard time to repeat 1000 times, may be my body is not relax enough. One thing that I have found out is 1000 kicks non-stop can be bad for the knee joint.

I did 1000 XingYi Pi Chuan non-stop yesterday. This morning when I waked out, I felt a lot of energy on my body. I felt that I'm 30 years old again. I just finished today's 1000 XingYi Pi Chuan 10 minutes ago. I also feel great right at this moment. Starting from today, I'll use 1000 punches (about 42 minutes) as my daily warm up exercise before I start my regular training.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When you do your Pi, do you
> 
> - inhale when you right fist go out as Tsuan, and
> - exhale when your left palm go out as Pi.
> ...



I was taught natural breathing and piquan can be thought of as many as 3 moves, however I look at it as 1


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I was taught natural breathing and piquan can be thought of as many as 3 moves, however I look at it as 1


I was also taught "natural breathing" too. I just coordinate my punching speed with my breathing and not the other way around.


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## 666 (Jan 29, 2018)

I've done 1000 front kicks - 500 with each leg, if that counts.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

666 said:


> I've done 1000 front kicks - 500 with each leg, if that counts.


How do you feel about your knee joint after that? Many TKD guys have knee problem when they get old.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 29, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Yup, it boils down to quality over quantity.
> 
> Now there is an argument to say that a greater quantity of high quality is better than a lesser quantity of equally high quality.  This is true, but conditioning and fatigue then becomes a deciding factor.


 When fatigue hits there is a greater risk for injury.  Been there. Done it. Got hurt and learned my lesson. Fatigue will kill quality to the point of there being no benefit to doing the drill.  If I can't do one rep. correctly because of fatigue then I'll stop.  I'll train if I'm tired because I just need a breather but with Fatigue stuff just stops working the way it should. 






However I do have fun doing push ups to the point of fatigue.  I guess I get a kick out of my not being able to push off the ground.  I push but nothing happens. lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> How do you feel about your knee joint after that? Many TKD guys have knee problem when they get old.


Many of the high kickers have knee and hip problems.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 29, 2018)

I wonder what types of injuries the Rockettes often get.  They kick 1200 times a day.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I wonder what types of injuries the Rockettes often get.  They kick 1200 times a day.


Most of the baseball pitchers will have shoulder problem when they get older.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 29, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I was also taught "natural breathing" too. I just coordinate my punching speed with my breathing and not the other way around.



I had a xingyi shifu who got annoyed with us all in the class one day. We were all drilling PIquan and all exhaling on the strikes. He told us all if you can only strike with power on exhale that he would hit us right right after we exhaled because we had no power until we inhaled so we could exhale, and if he attacked after exhale, coordinating our breath would be rather difficult to mount another strike with power. From then on it was all natural breathing tied to all striking.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 29, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> I wonder what types of injuries the Rockettes often get.  They kick 1200 times a day.


Just found my answer "Rockettes frequently suffer knee injuries, but neck injuries are also a concern ever since they started wearing a tight, heavy hat with reindeer antlers that light up. "We call it the vise," one dancer said." Source: The Sweat-Soaked Life of a Glamorous Rockette


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I had a xingyi shifu who got annoyed with us all in the class one day. We were all drilling PIquan and all exhaling on the strikes. He told us all if you can only strike with power on exhale that he would hit us right right after we exhaled because we had no power until we inhaled so we could exhale, and if he attacked after exhale, coordinating our breath would be rather difficult to mount another strike with power. From then on it was all natural breathing tied to all striking.


Your XingYi teacher is correct. You want to have air in you lung as long as you can. In long fist, we have a sections breathing training. We can divide our breath maximum into 7 parts. We train how to inhale full, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ..., 1/7 and exhale full. 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...,1/7.

But the XingYi breathing is "short inhale, long exhale" which is different from the natural breathing.

- The short inhale make sense. When you swim, you also use "short inhale" because the time period that you can inhale is short. When you fight, you want to get air in your lung ASAP between punches.
- The long exhale also make sense. When you are under water, you want to hold your breath in your lung as long as you can. When you fight, you also want to keep air in your lung as long as you can.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 29, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Just found my answer "Rockettes frequently suffer knee injuries, but neck injuries are also a concern ever since they started wearing a tight, heavy hat with reindeer antlers that light up. "We call it the vise," one dancer said." Source: The Sweat-Soaked Life of a Glamorous Rockette


Train MA and cause permanent injury makes no sense. I once did sit up and hurt my low back for 2 months. After that, I would never push myself beyond my limitation.

I only train "shin bite" on my right leg. 3 days ago, I decided to balance both my sides. After I used single head to train my right leg. I used single head to train my left leg. Last night when I took a bath, I realized that I had a bit bump on my left foot instep. I must forgot that I had the same big bump on my right foot instep when I was young.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 30, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I realize I quoted you and answered this before but I was reading "Philosophy of Martial Arts" from Shen Wu and this paragraph is very applicable to this type of training
> 
> Philosophy of Martial Arts



Great article, so true. Conscious awareness of what you're doing changes everything.. and it's funny, as you really ingrain the technique within you, it becomes more natural and flows without the need for conscious attention, so then it frees up your attention to focus on the subtler aspects of the technique, and allows your attention to go deeper and you can learn a help of a lot more...



Kung Fu Wang said:


> I was also taught "natural breathing" too. I just coordinate my punching speed with my breathing and not the other way around.



That's a really cool insight... I like that, and I'll remember that 



JowGaWolf said:


> When fatigue hits there is a greater risk for injury.  Been there. Done it. Got hurt and learned my lesson. Fatigue will kill quality to the point of there being no benefit to doing the drill.  If I can't do one rep. correctly because of fatigue then I'll stop.  I'll train if I'm tired because I just need a breather but with Fatigue stuff just stops working the way it should.



Hehe yeah true... quality slips so much at that point of fatigue. And I guess it depends. In one respect, quality slips and it does become pointless to drill quantities in that state, as you not only teach yourself bad habits but also put yourself at much greater risk of injury.

And on the other, some methods purposely put you in that fatigue 'zone' so that you work on the ability to perform great technique when it 'counts', like if you were in a real feral, exhausting fight and needed to draw on that, it can develop your ability to stay focused and able to still do good technique in a crazy fatigued state.

Then other methods push you to that place for totally other reasons other than technique development hehe which has its place at times


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 30, 2018)

Practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.


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## 666 (Jan 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> How do you feel about your knee joint after that? Many TKD guys have knee problem when they get old.


To be honest my knee was fine, where I really had a strange "pain" was my hip lol.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you drill "1 step 3 punches" 1000 times, you may hurt your arm joints. But if you drill "1 step 1 punch", since your body is pushing your arm, it will put less pressure on your arm joints. In other words, to drill "1 step 1 punch" can be like to put your arms behind your back and just use your body to punch. I think there is a big difference there.


Agreed, to an extent. It’s still repetitive use of the joints, and takes some building up to. A person in their 20’s might be able to deal with that kind of strain from the start.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

Touch Of Death said:


> If you do this right, it should heal your shoulder.


Agreed, if done right (including not doing 1,000 without building up to it).


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 30, 2018)

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ― Henry Ford

If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you’ll never get it done.– Bruce Lee


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## Flying Crane (Jan 30, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed, to an extent. It’s still repetitive use of the joints, and takes some building up to. A person in their 20’s might be able to deal with that kind of strain from the start.


It depends a lot on how you execute your technique.  If you muscle through it and snap the punch at the elbows and shoulders, you will get injured.  If you can relax and punch with the whole body, then injury is much less likely.

Even so, building up to it and managing fatigue is still important.

I’m almost 47.  Yesterday I did 1000 punches.  I’ve not done that many reps in a long time.  I had no problems doing it.  But I don’t muscle through my technique.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 30, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed, if done right (including not doing 1,000 without building up to it).


It more of a grind up to it, if you have been moving differently, your whole life, but it should just be like walking down the road.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 30, 2018)

You can forge a new path.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 30, 2018)

Touch Of Death said:


> Practice does not make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.





Flying Crane said:


> If you muscle through it and snap the punch at the elbows and shoulders, you will get injured.  If you can relax and punch with the whole body, then injury is much less likely.


This is why for each and every punch, I will follow the guidelines:

- Short inhale and long exhale. This is different from the natural breathing.
- Body push shoulder, shoulder push elbow, elbow push hand. No snap on my shoulder and elbow joint.
- Use bow-arrow stance and forward lean to initiate the forward momentum.

I will check my

- initial bow-arrow stance,
- transition side empty stance.
- ending 3-7 stance.

are all perfect. Since every punch will take me about 2.5 second (1 inhale and 1 exhale), I have plenty of time to check my structure.

2018 give me a new goal. I want to add "health" into my MA training goal.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 30, 2018)

666 said:


> To be honest my knee was fine, where I really had a strange "pain" was my hip lol.


You are right! It's the hip joint and not the knee joint. I have done high kick all my life. Today when I swing my leg upward, I can hear the crack noise in my hip joint.


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## 666 (Jan 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> You are right! It's the hip joint and not the knee joint. I have done high kick all my life. Today when I swing my leg upward, I can hear the crack noise in my hip joint.


So how should I go about kicking then? I mean I don't do 1000 reps on a regular basis. But how to practice kicking without risking damage in the long run I mean we don't practice to suffer lol.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> It depends a lot on how you execute your technique.  If you muscle through it and snap the punch at the elbows and shoulders, you will get injured.  If you can relax and punch with the whole body, then injury is much less likely.
> 
> Even so, building up to it and managing fatigue is still important.
> 
> I’m almost 47.  Yesterday I did 1000 punches.  I’ve not done that many reps in a long time.  I had no problems doing it.  But I don’t muscle through my technique.


If I'd ever done anything close to 1,000, it would probably not be an issue. I doubt I've ever done more than 200 of any single technique in a session, and rarely that many. I tend to do long chains, random bagwork, or groups of 20-50 at a time. That new level of activity would almost certainly lead to problems, even if I was doing the punches slow and soft. I just haven't built up the stamina in the small muscles for that kind of thing. Oddly, I can probably take more falls in a training session than I can throw punches in a row.


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## Touch Of Death (Jan 30, 2018)

666 said:


> So how should I go about kicking then? I mean I don't do 1000 reps on a regular basis. But how to practice kicking without risking damage in the long run I mean we don't practice to suffer lol.


It is the same idea, but you flick out your foot, and precede the landing with the lunge punch.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

Touch Of Death said:


> It more of a grind up to it, if you have been moving differently, your whole life, but it should just be like walking down the road.


It's not so much a matter of the manner of movement - I've been training some of these strikes since I was 12. It's more about what I've (not) developed the support muscle stamina for. If I went and did 500 strikes today, I can say with certainty that my right shoulder (and perhaps the left) would be crap tomorrow, and the tendinitis and such in my forearms/elbows would be made much worse.

Work up to it over time, and I can probably get to 1,000 without any of that.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 30, 2018)

666 said:


> So how should I go about kicking then? I mean I don't do 1000 reps on a regular basis. But how to practice kicking without risking damage in the long run I mean we don't practice to suffer lol.


IMO, you should try not to put that "snap" into your kick. Old saying said, "You train how to hurt your opponent with your MA training. It makes no sense to hurt yourself in your MA training."


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jan 30, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If I went and did 500 strikes today, I can say with certainty that my right shoulder (and perhaps the left) would be crap tomorrow, and the tendinitis and such in my forearms/elbows would be made much worse.


I have done 1000 punches for 3 days now. I have never felt this great before.

Training for fight and training for health is different. I can't believe that I start to talk about "health" in MA forum. When I have seen people of my age passed away, it makes me to wonder what's the value that you have good fighting skill but you can't live long.

When you train for

- fighting, you want to throw your punch as fast and as powerful as you can.
- health, you are training for your breathing. The slower that you breath, the slower that you punch.

My punching drill contain:

- 1 uppercut, and
- 1 palm strike.

It's like a small circle followed by a big circle, and a big circle followed by a small circle. When I train for

- fighting, I'll put power in both uppercut and palm strike.
- health, since I'm using the small circle uppercut for inhale, the big circle palm strike for exhale, I'm not thinking about speed and power but my breathing. In other words, no matter how many reps that I do, my breathing will always be normal.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have done 1000 punches for 3 days now. I have never felt this great before.
> 
> Training for fight and training for health is different. I can't believe that I start to talk about "health" in MA forum. When I have seen people of my age passed away, it makes me to wonder what's the value that you have good fighting skill but you can't live long.
> 
> ...


This goes to my comment in another thread about there being some difference in the "right way", depending upon the purpose of the practice.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 30, 2018)

666 said:


> So how should I go about kicking then? I mean I don't do 1000 reps on a regular basis. But how to practice kicking without risking damage in the long run I mean we don't practice to suffer lol.


I've always wondered this myself too, it seems pointless to train in such a way that will leave you crippled later.. I've always been taught to not fully extend each punch or kick to its absolute end range of motion. So there's still sort of a 'snap', but you don't extend out fully so that the impact of the technique puts the force into the joint (you don't want the power/momentum to push out through the joint). In other words, leave a slight bend in the elbow or knee at the end of the technique. This leads to more controlled techniques too, as they're not being just thrown out with full force, and it relies more on muscular control.

It's good to imagine how it would be punching something or someone. Even hitting the bag you're not ever fully extending the joint to the max, when you hit there's resistance and it stops you from fully extending out. It makes sense that training in the air should resemble that.





Kung Fu Wang said:


> I have done 1000 punches for 3 days now. I have never felt this great before.
> 
> Training for fight and training for health is different. I can't believe that I start to talk about "health" in MA forum. When I have seen people of my age passed away, it makes me to wonder what's the value that you have good fighting skill but you can't live long.
> 
> ...


Ah that's really insightful... definitely going to explore and train with this in mind more... *bows deeply*


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 30, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> I've always wondered this myself too, it seems pointless to train in such a way that will leave you crippled later.. I've always been taught to not fully extend each punch or kick to its absolute end range of motion. So there's still sort of a 'snap', but you don't extend out fully so that the impact of the technique puts the force into the joint (you don't want the power/momentum to push out through the joint). In other words, leave a slight bend in the elbow or knee at the end of the technique. This leads to more controlled techniques too, as they're not being just thrown out with full force, and it relies more on muscular control.
> 
> It's good to imagine how it would be punching something or someone. Even hitting the bag you're not ever fully extending the joint to the max, when you hit there's resistance and it stops you from fully extending out. It makes sense that training in the air should resemble that.Ah that's really insightful... definitely going to explore and train with this in mind more... *bows deeply*


I have fully extended joints a few times when getting too creative working at the bag. It has never felt like a good idea.


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## _Simon_ (Jan 31, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I have fully extended joints a few times when getting too creative working at the bag. It has never felt like a good idea.


Yeah I've done it accidently, if I mistime a punch thinking the bag is closer than it is haha


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 31, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I have fully extended joints a few times when getting too creative working at the bag. It has never felt like a good idea.



Keeping within the original style discussed, a couple years ago I once gave myself tennis elbow getting a bit to over zealous training Paoquan


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 31, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Keeping within the original style discussed, a couple years ago I once gave myself tennis elbow getting a bit to over zealous training Paoquan


I actually wonder if some of my current "golfer's elbow" is from some of the striking drills I've been working on lately.


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## 666 (Jan 31, 2018)

So is it safe to perform high reps of push ups everyday?
300-xxx


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 1, 2018)

666 said:


> So is it safe to perform high reps of push ups everyday?
> 300-xxx


Not enough data to prove either way. Push up is the same as lifting weight. Whenever there is weight involved, high reps may put pressure on joints.


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## _Simon_ (Feb 1, 2018)

666 said:


> So is it safe to perform high reps of push ups everyday?
> 300-xxx


Yeah not too sure. To me it's actually a pretty natural bodyweight movement (whereas some weightlifting exercises done too often can cause issues). I would say yes it'd be fine, but only as long as it was balanced out with pulling movements. Pushing muscles tend to get overused and you can easily develop imbalances by doing them too much. Slower punching isn't as weight-loaded a movement as pushups, but yeah there would need to be more data from those who have done it. I'm pretty sure many have done that sort of thing, just not sure of consequences long term


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 1, 2018)

Something I think I need to make clear here, speaking as a Xingyiquan guy, we're a bit nuts. Copious repetitions of the same thing, that can be painful, are not uncommon but we keep doing it and tend to like it too. Heck we'll stand motionless in one position for extended periods of painful time and we want to stand longer. 

Xingyi is not flashy or exciting, it is however rather direct. There have also been some who say that the reason the Chinese army picked Xingyiquan for their military during WW 2 was because they could train these postures on the march and that would go for miles.

So doing piquan for a mile on a beach, although rather commendable these days, is likely not as uncommon for the style historically speaking. There is a story of one Xingyi practitioner who was put in prison for a year or years (sorry I can't remember) and he was shackled... so all he could work on while in prison was half step bengquan... so he did..... and that may, or may not be, why there is half step Bengquan today....either way... it points to xingyi folks being a bit off.... and that is probably why I like xingyi classes and seminars so much


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> speaking as a Xingyiquan guy, we're a bit nuts.


When you train the XingYi system, you want to get that correct "feeling". After you have experienced that feeling, it's like drug dictation that you want to do it everyday.

The term Xing can also mean walking. The XingYi system emphasizes on footwork. To walk 5 miles in the morning daily is a common requirement for the XingYi students. The main strategy for this system is "Even if you can't find any opportunity to attack on your opponent, you just keep moving. When you are moving, soon or later you will find that opportunity to attack." This strategy is the opposite of the Taiji strategy that "If you don't move, I won't move. If you move, I'll ...".

IMO, the main training in this system is to start from visible power generation and end with invisible power generation. During the beginning training stage, For each and every punch, you want to knock a hole through your opponent's body. During the advance level training stage, you want just to send your arm out. This fit the old saying that said, "The power that you can feel is not your true power. The power that you don't feel will be your true power".

I have tried to repeat the following drills 1000 times non-stop:

- Taiji brush knee,
- Long fist kick, punch, punch,
- Preying mantis hook, back fist, uppercut,
- Baji groin kick, back fist,
- SC hip throw, knee seize,
- ...

I have difficulty to drill those combs 1000 times non-stop. IMO, XingYi drills are much easier to do for 1000 times non-stop.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

I played with some of the walking drills I have this week, to see which could be reasonably "softened" to this kind of practice. I don't see myself going for 1,000 of anything, but there are some I might use for a couple hundred repetitions. Found one I can alter to put more emphasis on mobility in low stances (good leg work, and still didn't seem to bother even my knees).


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I played with some of the walking drills I have this week, to see which could be reasonably "softened" to this kind of practice. I don't see myself going for 1,000 of anything, but there are some I might use for a couple hundred repetitions. Found one I can alter to put more emphasis on mobility in low stances (good leg work, and still didn't seem to bother even my knees).


I try to replace my 3 miles running by MA footwork training. This way I won't feel guilty when I run. I like to try this "skip footwork" 1000 times non-stop. It may be possible.

- Right leg make big step with uppercut,
- Left leg move next to the right leg.
- Right leg step in again.
- Left leg make big step with uppercut,
- Right leg move next to the left leg.
- Left leg step in again.
- ...






So far, the following drill is still the easiest one for me. I can even drill it 2000 times non-stop without any problem. It's just 1 single punch with simple footwork.






This can be a fun one to try too.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The term Xing can also mean walking. The XingYi system emphasizes on footwork. To walk 5 miles in the morning daily is a common requirement for the XingYi students. The main strategy for this system is "Even if you can't find any opportunity to attack on your opponent, you just keep moving. When you are moving, soon or later you will find that opportunity to attack."



Agreed to a point, xingyi, although it does not prefer it, can stand and fight without moving.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> This strategy is the opposite of the Taiji strategy that "If you don't move, I won't move. If you move, I'll ...".



Usually, but not always, at least not in taijiquan as it comes from Tung Ying Chieh.



Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, the main training in this system is to start from visible power generation and end with invisible power generation. During the beginning training stage, For each and every punch, you want to knock a hole through your opponent's body. During the advance level training stage, you want just to send your arm out. This fit the old saying that said, "The power that you can feel is not your true power. The power that you don't feel will be your true power".



Mingjen (Obvious Power), Anjin (Hidden Power), Huajin (Neutralizing Power)


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Mingjen (Obvious Power), Anjin (Hidden Power), Huajin (Neutralizing Power)



1. Physical - Mingjen (Obvious Power),
2. Mental - Anjin (Hidden Power),
3. Spiritual - Huajin (Neutralizing Power).

I can understand 1 and 2. I don't know what to expect for 3. I have seen GM Chang used XingYi Heng Chuan to knock his opponent 45 degree up in the air (Chinese Cultural University, Taiwan, 1980 summer). May be that's Huajin (Neutralizing Power).


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> So far, the following drill is still the easiest one for me. I can even drill it 2000 times non-stop without any problem. It's just 1 single punch with simple footwork.


This has some of the same feel as the one I'm building out of an old drill. I'm putting more angles in the movement (because I tend to stay too linear), but the simplicity and concept is similar.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> 1. Physical - Mingjen (Obvious Power),
> 2. Mental - Anjin (Hidden Power),
> 3. Spiritual - Huajin (Neutralizing Power).
> 
> I can understand 1 and 2. I don't know what to expect for 3. I have seen GM Chang used XingYi Heng Chuan to knock his opponent 45 degree up in the air (Chinese Cultural University, Taiwan, 1980 summer). May be that's Huajin (Neutralizing Power).



Three Steps of Development in Xingyiquan - by Di Guoyong


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## _Simon_ (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, the main training in this system is to start from visible power generation and end with invisible power generation. During the beginning training stage, For each and every punch, you want to knock a hole through your opponent's body. During the advance level training stage, you want just to send your arm out. This fit the old saying that said, "The power that you can feel is not your true power. The power that you don't feel will be your true power".



Yeah that's something I really want to understand, and I'm sure that's something that takes time.

Master Shigeru Egami spoke quite a bit about this:



> The idea of harmony and the way may seem fragile and weak for a beginner or those that place value on physical strength, but there is nothing stronger than harmony and the way, because they are placed on the highest peak of the search within a martial art.
> 
> On the technical aspects, the consequences of the change from hardness to lightness are: My techniques changed, from dispersion to concentration, from body hardness to strength through lightness. All searches for a natural state, the state that has the effect of rejuvenating body and spirit.





> During this questioning I understood one thing. Until that moment I had practiced karate with a fundamental illusion, I had confused hardness with stength and I made every effort to harden my body thinking that I would obtain more strength when hardening the body is equivalent to stopping the movement. This is a fundamental defect. I had then to start massaging and lightening the body I had struggled so many years to harden.
> 
> I decided to start again from zero, totally rejecting all that which I thought I had acquired till that point.
> 
> My goal would be to attain naive and spontaneous forms and movements, as if I were a beginner again. When I tried with this attitude I discovered that I obtained a higher effectivity. I then understood the teaching of Master Funakoshi: “You must never go against nature”.



I really enjoy what he writes, it's so different to alot of other thoughts I've read on power generation...

Plenty more articles:
Master Shigeru Egami Library


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

As long as each of the 1000 is top quality. Perfect symmetric form, full power, arhythmic. You want slight but valid variations between each strike, whilst performing image training/mentation (shadow box/kickbox/fighting). "Did that punch hit him as hard as the first? No? Was it close? No? Hit harder." "If that didn't affect him, could I dodge a counter attack? No? Move better." One of the best marathon runners in the world basically sprints the entire race. His marathon pace is faster than normal people can sprint 20m. That's what you're working towards, in principle. Try running just a mile without sagging at all, maintain completely symmetrical and tight posture, with complete body control, forefoot striking, no swaying, perfect balance at each moment, learning how to absorb and redirect forces better and better... just improving form, concentration and right-effort more than anything else. It'll be completely exhausting. That's what you have to do for everything: More power, better form, faster, longer, more aware, thinking 10 steps ahead.
Just sitting still I'll notice I'm swaying slightly side to side (minutiae), slouching, etc. and will correct myself by tightening my core, glutes, pushing through my feet into the ground, straightening my neck, setting my shoulders down and rolled back, straighten and tense the back and spine, relax overly tense muscles, expand the rib cage and use my breath to expand the body and do a slight stretch and shift of weight, general posture and form stuff. The specifics change but put all your effort just into sitting or standing correctly, and put all your effort into just walking or running correctly, and put all your effort into just lunging and punching correctly, etc. This is like 1000's of reps, each day. If you're hurting from just correcting your own posture, you have to realize you still have more to learn: My shoulder hurts right now because I wasn't tensing my glutes (max n med) and core enough, nor engaging the spinae erectors that depress the ribcage yesterday, my back and rear delts are too weak and unengaged, and more. Doing so now feels very good. I still feel "body dumb" all over. It's sort of like being numb and dull, even if it's "normal".
Your posture though should be in preparation to fight if ambushed, respond to a crisis, and longevity. Militaristic, if you will. Correct posture isn't correct if you can't move, turn or stand from it (if sitting). Think of a tiger I guess. The more you try to correct posture and movements, the more you realize your range of motion is limited.

So if you're going to do 1000's of something, it should start with correcting muscle engagement in posture and basic everyday movement. The simplest exercises are monumental tasks that challenge your fine motor control system. Your knowledge of anatomy and biomechanics will sky rocket, and will be with you serving you for the rest of your life. You'll see others move and be able to see 100 mistakes in a single movement. Boost your body intelligence and each repetition has more meaning. You'll be fresh even after a debilitating amount of training,  because you did so with body intelligence. Just doing a quick light warm up and dynamic stretch will prepare your body for any intensity of physical exertion. You'll be ready to be a martial arts master.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

666 said:


> So is it safe to perform high reps of push ups everyday?
> 300-xxx



You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does); you'll hurt yourself or have slow results. Kinesthetic, bodily, kinetic intelligence comes first. Develop body consciousness by feeling each individual muscle and learning how to tense/relax individual muscles, feel individual bones and tendons, ligaments, tissues, even your skin, apart from every other. You can do training like that most of a day vs push ups. Someone posted about lightness vs hardness, where they prioritize lightness, which is legitimate. Learn how to feel extremely light, and as if your body was breathing, and increase push ups according to your level in that. I'm pretty sure, as is supported by chinese traditional medical theory and personal experience, that copious amounts of raw garlic and onion, sour fermented foods, and meditation, will help you along very quickly.
Refer to my previous post if you want further clarification on where to put your focus.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does); you'll hurt yourself or have slow results. Kinesthetic, bodily, kinetic intelligence comes first. Develop body consciousness by feeling each individual muscle and learning how to tense/relax individual muscles, feel individual bones and tendons, ligaments, tissues, even your skin, apart from every other. You can do training like that most of a day vs push ups. Someone posted about lightness vs hardness, where they prioritize lightness, which is legitimate. Learn how to feel extremely light, and as if your body was breathing, and increase push ups according to your level in that. I'm pretty sure, as is *supported by chinese traditional medical *theory and personal experience, that *copious amounts of raw garlic and onion, and meditation, will help you along very quickly.*
> Refer to my previous post if you want further clarification on where to put your focus.



Actually no, it is not supported by TCM. Copious amounts of anything are bad.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Actually no, it is not supported by TCM. Copious amounts of anything are bad.



It engages the metal element (clarity, respiration) which the lung and large colon are of; they circulate energy, as all strong, pungent, spicy (not hot) foods do. I'll add that sour foods are also a good idea, such as kimchi and sauerkraut, are beneficial as they are to do with the wood element, which affects clarity and breathing as well.


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## 666 (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does); you'll hurt yourself or have slow results. Kinesthetic, bodily, kinetic intelligence comes first. Develop body consciousness by feeling each individual muscle and learning how to tense/relax individual muscles, feel individual bones and tendons, ligaments, tissues, even your skin, apart from every other. You can do training like that most of a day vs push ups. Someone posted about lightness vs hardness, where they prioritize lightness, which is legitimate. Learn how to feel extremely light, and as if your body was breathing, and increase push ups according to your level in that. I'm pretty sure, as is supported by chinese traditional medical theory and personal experience, that copious amounts of raw garlic and onion, sour fermented foods, and meditation, will help you along very quickly.
> Refer to my previous post if you want further clarification on where to put your focus.


What are you even talking about?


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## Martial D (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> It engages the metal element (clarity, respiration) which the lung and large colon are of; they circulate energy, as all strong, pungent, spicy (not hot) foods do. I'll add that sour foods are also a good idea, such as kimchi and sauerkraut, are beneficial as they are to do with the wood element, which affects clarity and breathing as well.


I once asked you what martial art you trained in and for how long. You chose not to answer.

Have you considered making an introduction thread? At the moment you seem to be some random guy typing nonsense. Perhaps some context vis a vis where you are getting all this crap from would be helpful.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does); you'll hurt yourself or have slow results. Kinesthetic, bodily, kinetic intelligence comes first. Develop body consciousness by feeling each individual muscle and learning how to tense/relax individual muscles, feel individual bones and tendons, ligaments, tissues, even your skin, apart from every other. You can do training like that most of a day vs push ups. Someone posted about lightness vs hardness, where they prioritize lightness, which is legitimate. Learn how to feel extremely light, and as if your body was breathing, and increase push ups according to your level in that. I'm pretty sure, as is supported by chinese traditional medical theory and personal experience, that copious amounts of raw garlic and onion, sour fermented foods, and meditation, will help you along very quickly.
> Refer to my previous post if you want further clarification on where to put your focus.


I’ve got to be honest: this comes across as pure gibberish.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> It engages the metal element (clarity, respiration) which the lung and large colon are of; they circulate energy, as all strong, pungent, spicy (not hot) foods do. I'll add that sour foods are also a good idea, such as kimchi and sauerkraut, are beneficial as they are to do with the wood element, which affects clarity and breathing as well.


This, too.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> As long as each of the 1000 is ..., full power, ...


When I

- was young, I put maximum power in each and every punch/kick that I trained. I was in my "physical" stage.
- get older, I no longer think about power. I just let my body to flow.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

Zhan zhuang - Wikipedia
Tree Standing Qi Gong - MASSAGE AUSBILDUNG Frankfurt - Heidelberg
Standing Meditation
Standing Like a Tree! What is this Standing Practice?
Standing like a tree - Internal Strength - Energy Gates Qigong

These articles will explain what I'm saying. You can probably just read one of them. It's about body awareness, opening the senses, mind-muscle connection, posture and breathing with your entire body.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I
> 
> - was young, I put maximum power in each and every punch/kick that I trained. I was in my "physical" stage.
> - get older, I no longer think about power. I just let my body to flow.



Don't neglect that I said they have to improve in form and function as well. As well there is my suggestions for improving form and function, which is to incorporate the mind and basically qi gong or meditation. You have to do both. Perhaps "mind in body" when young, and "body in mind" when old. The distance between the two shouldn't be very much however.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> It engages the metal element (clarity, respiration) which the lung and large colon are of; they circulate energy, as all strong, pungent, spicy (not hot) foods do. I'll add that sour foods are also a good idea, such as kimchi and sauerkraut, are beneficial as they are to do with the wood element, which affects clarity and breathing as well.



And that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement you made "Copious amounts" and for the record metal also uses white foods as well and wood is associated with the liver and Gall Bladder in TCM and would also include green foods. 

Eating is to balance Yin and Yang and there is no such thing as a copious amount of any food to maintain balance


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Zhan zhuang - Wikipedia
> Tree Standing Qi Gong - MASSAGE AUSBILDUNG Frankfurt - Heidelberg
> Standing Meditation
> Standing Like a Tree! What is this Standing Practice?
> ...



I teach Zhan zhuang, Taiji a bit of qigong and I have trained Xingyiquan and for years...what do you want to know


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> One of the best marathon runners in the world basically sprints the entire race. His marathon pace is faster than normal people can sprint 20m.



That's a bit overstated, but still a good point. The fastest marathon was in 2:02:57. That's about 16 seconds per 100 yards. A normal, fairly fit person could run 100 yards that quickly, and could certainly run faster for only 20 yards. Still, pretty danged fast to have to keep up for mile after mile.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does)


Except you?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

After I have done 5 days of 1000 non-stop XingYi Pi Chuan, today I started to drill 1000 non-stop XingYi Pao Chuan. Instead of using it for warm-up, today I drill it after my 2 hours regular training. This way I can be more relax when I do it since it will be the last part of the training that I'll do today. The 1000 Pao took me 58 minutes.

I divide the single drill into 3 steps. Starting from the block and punch.

1. Extension - Pivot the front foot, extend the punching arm, put block arm fist next to my waist.
2. Compress - Move back foot next to leading foot, wrap and pull the punching arm back to the waist.
3. Release - Step forward, punch one arm, block another arm, back foot slide in.

This is a good drill to train

- power generation.
- ever punch should followed by a pull.
- All body parts move/stop at the same time.
- Hand coordinate with foot, elbow coordinate with knee, shoulder coordinate with hip.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> I teach Zhan zhuang, Taiji a bit of qigong and I have trained Xingyiquan and for years...what do you want to know


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Except you?


No.


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## 666 (Feb 2, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> XingYi Pi Chuan


Are you practicing this for health, form or self defense?
I don't practice any Kung fu so I'm just curious not judgemental.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> No.


So, nobody anywhere knows how to do one?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 2, 2018)

666 said:


> Are you practicing this for health, form or self defense?
> I don't practice any Kung fu so I'm just curious not judgemental.


The XingYi system is always one of my cross training CMA systems. I have always train it for combat (I don't like the term "self-defense"). Starting from 2018, I start to use it for "health". I still have my regular MA combat training. The 1000 Pi (or Pao) is only a small part of my daily training..


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> So, nobody anywhere knows how to do one?



The worse you are at it, the lower your upper limit. Someone very good at push ups can do thousands a day without long term damage to their body.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 2, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> The worse you are at it, the lower your upper limit. Someone very good at push ups can do thousands a day without long term damage to their body.


And what has that to do with your earlier comment?


Primal Monk said:


> You don't even know how to do one correctly (no one does)


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## Primal Monk (Feb 2, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> And what has that to do with your earlier comment?


If you want to do more push ups, squats, etc. then you need to learn the proper form, muscle recruitment patterns, and whatever else is part of deep learning how to perform exercises at higher and higher reps while improving longevity rather than reducing it. The next line is literally "you'll hurt yourself or have slow results", and then I go on to say how you should be more mindful while performing push ups and learn the proper way to use your body and increase your body intelligence, so that it's safe to perform higher repetitions. I say more about it but that's the gist.


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## 666 (Feb 3, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> you need to learn the proper form


Well, yeah obviously. So why did you say "no one does".
You should learn proper form with every exercise like why did you make that statement.
Do you have a proper push up technique?


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 3, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> If you want to do more push ups, squats, etc. then you need to learn the proper form, muscle recruitment patterns, and whatever else is part of deep learning how to perform exercises at higher and higher reps while improving longevity rather than reducing it. The next line is literally "you'll hurt yourself or have slow results", and then I go on to say how you should be more mindful while performing push ups and learn the proper way to use your body and increase your body intelligence, so that it's safe to perform higher repetitions. I say more about it but that's the gist.


Yet, you said (oddly) that they don't know how to do one properly, nor does anyone else.


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## Martial D (Feb 3, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> If you want to do more push ups, squats, etc. then you need to learn the proper form, muscle recruitment patterns, and whatever else is part of deep learning how to perform exercises at higher and higher reps while improving longevity rather than reducing it. The next line is literally "you'll hurt yourself or have slow results", and then I go on to say how you should be more mindful while performing push ups and learn the proper way to use your body and increase your body intelligence, so that it's safe to perform higher repetitions. I say more about it but that's the gist.


Says the expert in...which martial art was it again?

Youtube-fu? Preten-do? I forget.


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## 666 (Feb 4, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Says the expert in...which martial art was it again?
> 
> Youtube-fu? Preten-do? I forget.


Don't even need to be a martial artist to talk about that, but I doubt he has much experience in calisthenics.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

I start to think whether I should replace my 1000 punching drill by 

- 10 different drills 100 times each, or
- 20 different drills 50 times each, or
- ...

I wonder which will give me the most benefit. Any suggestion?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I start to think whether I should replace my 1000 punching drill by
> 
> - 10 different drills 100 times each, or
> - 20 different drills 50 times each, or
> ...



purely speculating here, but
if your goal is 1000 techniques in a day
Doing 1000 of 1 technique may give you more, IF you are able to concentrate on every detail of that technique for 1000 reputations. However the risk of getting lazy or boredom is high which could actually go against what you are trying to achieve

10 different drills 100 times each would likely be easier to stay focused on and not lead to laziness or boredom quite as easily,

20 different drills 50 times each again less chance of boredom, but how much of the 20 different things are you going to remember. My first shifu once taught me 30 different forms in 5 different style (Chen Taiji, Bagua, Xingyi staff, Shaolin Long fist, Wu style Jian) in one day and I remembered almost none of it

What is the goal of this 1000/day of 1 form supposed to be? I guess that is what I would be asking myself.
I did 100 a day of one form for a week (right and left totaling 200) and I gained a lot. But if I was not careful somewhere around 50 my mind would start wandering. By the 5th week and the 5th form my concentration was much better, but I think if I tried 1000 at some point I would go on automatic pilot and not be paying attention to what I was doing


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## 666 (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I wonder which will give me the most benefit. Any suggestion?


10 - 100 times
or
5 - 200 times

Depends on the drills I guess,if it's just like one punch/kick, then the 200 one.
If it's more complex maybe the 100 one.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I start to think whether I should replace my 1000 punching drill by
> 
> - 10 different drills 100 times each, or
> - 20 different drills 50 times each, or
> ...


I like the variety, both from a personal standpoint (I get less bored), and from the standpoint of working more parts of the body and putting less intensive wear on any single joint (or part thereof). 10 x 100 seems a good balance, or even 5 x 200 if you don't want to have to remember 10 different things to do every time.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 5, 2018)

666 said:


> Well, yeah obviously. So why did you say "no one does".
> You should learn proper form with every exercise like why did you make that statement.
> Do you have a proper push up technique?



I said no one does because most people would hurt themselves if they tried doing a thousand push ups or any other exercise. So I suggested qi gong, essentially. I didn't claim I could perform better than you or whoever. People tend to get tendinitis from things; listening to your body with deep learning techniques/mindsets can prevent this. The deep learning techniques and mindset has been suggested. 

What is so confusing for the people replying; I realize you're still bitter because I don't respect the set standards for excellence in martial arts, but the advice is sound.



gpseymour said:


> Yet, you said (oddly) that they don't know how to do one properly, nor does anyone else.



You're taking things too personally.



Martial D said:


> Says the expert in...which martial art was it again?
> 
> Youtube-fu? Preten-do? I forget.



Bitter. I never claimed superiority, but you're responding to an imagined air of it. I never exclaimed superiority in the other thread either; people merely assume that if someone is trying to reduce the perceived difference between an unskilled and uninitiated person and a skilled and experienced person, that they're doing it out of impure motivations. In truth I want people to see martial arts as incredibly undeveloped and requiring  progress and evolution. Physical athleticism or fitness and martial arts are intrinsically linked.


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## _Simon_ (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I start to think whether I should replace my 1000 punching drill by
> 
> - 10 different drills 100 times each, or
> - 20 different drills 50 times each, or
> ...



Yeah I agree with the 10 drills 100 times each, I think that would be a good balance, as 20 different drills may be too much, but again depends on what drills you're doing I guess.

I'd even trial out both of those and see how you respond, if you feel you got more out of one than the other. I'd say if you got alot out of the 1000, both of those options may be fine .


I really want to try the 1000 techniques one, but any tips on the counting of it, and how to not let the focus on counting and remembering that interfere with actually focusing on the technique?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> any tips on the counting of it, and how to not let the focus on counting and remembering that interfere with actually focusing on the technique?


For me, I started from my mail box and drill to my neighbor's mail box, that will be 100 punches. I then turn around and make it 200 punches. If I repeat it 5 times, that will be 1000. In other words, I only count it on the 1st time just to measure the distance. After that I don't count it any more.

Another way to do is to find out how long it will take you 1 rep. For my punching drill, it takes 3.5 seconds (1 inhale, 1 exhale). So 1000 punches will take about 1 hour.


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## _Simon_ (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> For me, I started from my mail box and drill to my neighbor's mail box, that will be 100 punches. I then turn around and make it 200 punches. If I repeat it 5 times, that will be 1000. In other words, I only count it on the 1st time just to measure the distance. After that I don't count it any more.
> 
> Another way to do is to find out how long it will take you 1 rep. For my punching drill, it takes 3.5 seconds (1 inhale, 1 exhale). So 1000 punches will take about 1 hour.


Ah cheers for that, good idea!

Another one is that I could wear a pedometer in a place that would register only one step per punch hehe, would have to be set in the proper place so as not to go nuts with counting hehe


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> not lead to laziness or boredom quite as easily,...


For the first 400 punches, I will be OK. Starting from the 400 to 800, I start to get bored. For the last 200, I will get my energy back again (when a horse sees home, she will run back home fast).


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> You're taking things too personally.


What's personal about calling you out on your nonsense?


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> Ah cheers for that, good idea!
> 
> Another one is that I could wear a pedometer in a place that would register only one step per punch hehe, would have to be set in the proper place so as not to go nuts with counting hehe


That will work with some pedometers and some techniques. I've noticed that two pedometers I experimented with actually don't pick up my hanmi steps at all - they are too smooth to register as steps. Other drills register fine.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> any tips on the counting of it, ...


Sometime the counting can be helpful. When I run, I like to go through all the Chinese poems in my mind. After I have gone through about 30 poems in my mind, I have already finished my 3 miles running. When my mind is not on my body, I can push my body to another limitation.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 5, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime the counting can be helpful. When I run, I like to go through all the Chinese poems in my mind. After I have gone through about 30 poems in my mind, I have already finished my 3 miles running. When my mind is not on my body, I can push my body to another limitation.


When I ran, I kept track of the distance and current timing, and kept doing mental math with overall timing. The math kept my mind busy.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 5, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> What's personal about calling you out on your nonsense?


 What nonsense? Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort. Someone who performs push up qi gong learns how to perform push ups without effort. Thus, if you wish to increase the intensity of push ups, such as with weight or 1000+ push ups, you can do so safely because your body has learned the movement.


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## Martial D (Feb 5, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Bitter. I never claimed superiority, but you're responding to an imagined air of it. I never exclaimed superiority in the other thread either; people merely assume that if someone is trying to reduce the perceived difference between an unskilled and uninitiated person and a skilled and experienced person, that they're doing it out of impure motivations. In truth I want people to see martial arts as incredibly undeveloped and requiring  progress and evolution. Physical athleticism or fitness and martial arts are intrinsically linked.


And you are qualified to speak on this because.....?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> What nonsense? Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort. Someone who performs push up qi gong learns how to perform push ups without effort. Thus, if you wish to increase the intensity of push ups, such as with weight or 1000+ push ups, you can do so safely because your body has learned the movement.



What exactly is tree qigong and push up qigong?

But before that; define qigong as you know it


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> When I ran, I kept track of the distance and current timing, and kept doing mental math with overall timing. The math kept my mind busy.


When I run, I like to go through all the MA skills that I have learned through my head. I will put every 10 MA skills in 1 group. If I can come up with

- 10 group, I will remember 100 MA skills.
- 20 group, I will remember 200 MA skills.
- ...

Sometime I'll group MA information in such a way that if I use this move, how many different ways that my opponent may respond to it. Also, how many different ways that I can respond to those responds. MA will get very complicate this way pretty soon.

This way, I won't feel guilty when I run.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 5, 2018)

After have tried many different punching drills (I don't want to try kicking drill), The following drill is still the easiest one for me. It's as simple as "step in and punch".

Will someone be able to come up a drill that's easier than this?


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## 666 (Feb 6, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> What nonsense? Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort. Someone who performs push up qi gong learns how to perform push ups without effort. Thus, if you wish to increase the intensity of push ups, such as with weight or 1000+ push ups, you can do so safely because your body has learned the movement.


Guess what, construction site workers who stand all day for 2 weeks can stand without effort too.
Those calisthenics guys who train in the park even without a routine will eventually perform push ups effortlessly.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> What nonsense? Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort. Someone who performs push up qi gong learns how to perform push ups without effort. Thus, if you wish to increase the intensity of push ups, such as with weight or 1000+ push ups, you can do so safely because your body has learned the movement.



I'm pretty sure that anyone who lacks a fairly severe physical disability (and who isn't a toddler) already stands effortlessly without doing any qi gong. It's something most people master well before starting kindergarten. Does standing require any significant effort for you?


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> What nonsense? Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort. Someone who performs push up qi gong learns how to perform push ups without effort. Thus, if you wish to increase the intensity of push ups, such as with weight or 1000+ push ups, you can do so safely because your body has learned the movement.


And that has nothing to do with your statement that the poster doesn't know how to do a push-up correctly, nor does anyone else.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> After have tried many different punching drills (I don't want to try kicking drill), The following drill is still the easiest one for me. It's as simple as "step in and punch".
> 
> Will someone be able to come up a drill that's easier than this?


That walking punch (or its equivalent in various styles) is probably the simplest moving repetitive drill - can't imagine much simpler. I've drilled equivalents from boxing, Karate, etc.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I run, I like to go through all the MA skills that I have learned through my head. I will put every 10 MA skills in 1 group. If I can come up with
> 
> - 10 group, I will remember 100 MA skills.
> - 20 group, I will remember 200 MA skills.
> ...


I can't do that while I run. My body wants to repeat the technique, and I start to lose rhythm.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 6, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I can't do that while I run. My body wants to repeat the technique, and I start to lose rhythm.



I despise running. My rule is: if you see me running, you better run too. Because someone is chasing me. With a chainsaw. And shooting them didn't stop them.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2018)

Dirty Dog said:


> I despise running. My rule is: if you see me running, you better run too. Because someone is chasing me. With a chainsaw. And shooting them didn't stop them.



I used to love running. I still have some hope that my legs will let me get back to running distance regularly. In fact, I'm signed up for a 10-mile mud run this year. I wouldn't expect to run the entire thing, even if I was running regularly right now, but I'd love to run about half of it.

I find running moderately boring, but that just frees my mind up to play with ideas (or do the math, if no ideas present). There was a time - back in my teens - when I occasionally sang along to whatever songs were in my head. Now that seems like lunacy.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I'm signed up for a 10-mile mud run this year.


Good for you. A friend of mine told me that his 97 years old father still run 3 miles daily 1 year before passed away. I will never give up my running. If I stop it one day, I may never be able to pick it up again.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Someone who performs standing meditation or tree qi gong learns how to stand without effort.


When I worked in the Ideal Toy Company in Queens, NYC, I had to stand 8 hours to handle the machine that open every 6 seconds. I then had to pick up all the plastic parts from the machine and drop into different boxes.

- Some people have to stand 8 hours as daily job.
- Others "hug tree" and pretend they are the only people on earth who know how to stand effortless.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 6, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Good for you. A friend of mine told me that his 97 years old father still run 3 miles daily 1 year before passed away. I will never give up my running. If I stop it one day, I may never be able to pick it up again.


I do wonder if my legs would have held up better if I'd kept running. I got away from it in my 30's, and have tried 3 times in my 40's to start back.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> When I worked in the Ideal Toy Company in Queens, NYC, I had to stand 8 hours to handle the machine that open every 6 seconds. I then had to pick up all the plastic parts from the machine and drop into different boxes.
> 
> - Some people have to stand 8 hours as daily job.
> - Others "hug tree" and pretend they are the only people on earth who know how to stand effortless.



There is a little more to standing like that than learning how to stand effortlessly. If that is the only reason you do this type of Zhan Zhaung the don't bother wasting your time.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 6, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> There is a little more to standing like that than learning how to stand effortlessly. If that is the only reason you do this type of Zhan Zhaung the don't bother wasting your time.


I know, when you hug the tree, you should think about as you are hugging your girl.

I still believe that

- running is better than walking.
- walking is better than standing.
- standing is better than sitting.
- sitting is better than laying down.
- laying down is better than to be dead.

If you move a

- tree, that tree will die.
- person, that person will live long.

The human body is good to move around than to be still. When you lay down in your coffin, you will be static for a long time. The time that you can move your body can only be about 100 years. When you are still alive, you should move, walk, run, dance, jump, flip in the air, and enjoy your life. When you die, you can have your coffin to be standing straight, so your dead body can be in a "tree hug" posture for another 1,000 years.

I don't do "tree hugging". I do many different ZZ standing.

*羅漢观天* *(Luo Han Guan Tian) Lou Han looks at sky *


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 7, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I know, when you hug the tree, you should think about as you are hugging your girl.
> 
> I still believe that
> 
> ...



I do more than standing post as well, but like meditation, which also does not move, it has its benefits. One must train ones mind too. And meditation is being studied rather extensively these days and it looks like it may be rather beneficial for the brain

As to this



> - running is better than walking.
> - walking is better than standing.
> - standing is better than sitting.
> - sitting is better than laying down.
> - laying down is better than to be dead.



Try not lying down...and only running, walking standing or sitting...or if you think running is best then only run......and you will soon find out how important lying down actually is..... your body needs it, when you are lying down your body repairs damage....if you don't, you don't sleep..and then you die.......so are running, walking, standing, and sitting better than lying down...or are they all equally important parts of living?

Like Zhang Zhuan training


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## AngryHobbit (Feb 7, 2018)

It might take 1,000 tries just to get the form right.  

Seriously, I think it would take some time before I could work up to 1,000, if ever, even once I had the form nailed down. I fully appreciate the value of repetition, but I don't think 1,000 repetitions of the same thing in a row would work for me mentally. Maybe something like this - 50 punches of a specific kind with one hand, 50 with the other; 50 of certain kind of kick with one leg, then with the other; 50 ... I don't know... backhand chops with one hand, then the other... and so on.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 7, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> It might take 1,000 tries just to get the form right.


It's important to separate which part of the move is used for compressing - inhale, and which part of the move is used for releasing - exhale. If you coordinate all the compressing as 1 move, and coordinate all the releasing as the 2nd move. No matter how complicate a move may be, it can be as simple as just 2 moves.

Not all MA system use "compress and release" power generation method. But I like to apply this method in all the MA systems that I have cross trained.


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## Primal Monk (Feb 7, 2018)

666 said:


> Guess what, construction site workers who stand all day for 2 weeks can stand without effort too.
> Those calisthenics guys who train in the park even without a routine will eventually perform push ups effortlessly.



People who work construction jobs tend to suffer back pain, stiff tired or worn out joints, etc.; not the best example. Try standing in one place for 8 hours, without moving. If a construction worker had to, they would start moving around, bending their knees, walking around a bit, anything to loosen up, because their job entails moving around in a variety of dynamic movements, not turning to stone from standing still or doing one specific movement. Check with a cashier that has to bag your groceries; back pain, stiff joints, aching knees. Push ups effortlessly doesn't necessarily mean 1000 push ups effortlessly, or without wear and tear, especially if you're doing that DAILY rather than a variety of dynamic movements. The reason they do qi gong, tai chi and such in China is because they're health centric, and are relieved from pain and injury by performing the meditative movements or static meditation.



Xue Sheng said:


> What exactly is tree qigong and push up qigong?
> 
> But before that; define qigong as you know it



Well, "as I know it", it's entering a meditative and physiologically receptive mental state while performing some practice, according to skill level (as in, what practice you can perform qi gong in), and improving your skill on an intra-physiological level (like the programming of a computer application), manipulating basic forces and even unknown and often neglected ones. So muscle rate coding, muscle recruitment patterns, blood pressure, and fluid levels would behave differently than when in normal consciousness (mindset), because you are so receptive and focused on your own performance of an activity. It's also more holistic and aesthetic, rather than the mind focusing on specifics it improves your aesthetic logic (i.e. analogic) of the body. This is already something we do, when we feel or sense qualities and changes in our physiological state and make associations of what's good to do when and where, what's bad to do when and where, etc, but that happens less often, with less sophistication and less receptively than with qi gong. We can feel more or less "fresh", "invigorated", "accomplished", "fluid", "strong", so on and so forth, but qi gong is meant to bring you in contact with more of these qualities at once and to process them more intelligently and thoroughly.

I already posted some articles on tree qi gong you can check out. Attempting to perform qi gong or meditation whilst doing push ups is similar in principle, but requires some learning and skill development like anything does when applying it to something new.



Dirty Dog said:


> I'm pretty sure that anyone who lacks a fairly severe physical disability (and who isn't a toddler) already stands effortlessly without doing any qi gong. It's something most people master well before starting kindergarten. Does standing require any significant effort for you?



Rather rude and insulting. Can you stand in one spot for 8 hours without any pain, discomfort, and stiffness? Without walking around or moving too much at all? People who perform qi gong learn subtle techniques and principles by being receptive to their body whilst performing activities; not basically receptive, but deeply receptive (meditative). There are already clear benefits for meditation, or do you already know how to sit and do nothing? They're not the same thing at all. Increased grey matter, improved happiness, improved cognition, improved health long-term and over-all, improved focus, and a few other things are the result of meditation.



gpseymour said:


> And that has nothing to do with your statement that the poster doesn't know how to do a push-up correctly, nor does anyone else.



It's a turn of phrase. If I wanted to be very literal, I would say "many people don't". People can perform a 1000 reps but stop at 500 because their knees or some joint starts hurting/aching. People can perform a 1000 reps but not every day or even 3x a week. Unless you have perfectly developed and balanced musculature and tendons, you can't naturally get that sort of mileage without wearing out the inside or outside of the tires or something breaking down (a metaphor). The remedy is qi gong. The reason is because of what qi gong is. What qi gong is, as it means to me, is stated above; as it is understood by others, you can search for yourself with some google fu. You can find some more info in the tree qi gong links I posted if you don't want to google it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> It's a turn of phrase. If I wanted to be very literal, I would say "many people don't". People can perform a 1000 reps but stop at 500 because their knees or some joint starts hurting/aching. People can perform a 1000 reps but not every day or even 3x a week. Unless you have perfectly developed and balanced musculature and tendons, you can't naturally get that sort of mileage without wearing out the inside or outside of the tires or something breaking down (a metaphor). The remedy is qi gong. The reason is because of what qi gong is. What qi gong is, as it means to me, is stated above; as it is understood by others, you can search for yourself with some google fu. You can find some more info in the tree qi gong links I posted if you don't want to google it.


It's not a "turn of phrase" when you tell the poster they didn't know how to do one right. The other half (nobody does) is a poor choice of wording if you are trying to communicate.

Unless someone is genetically gifted or quite young (or perhaps it requires both), doing 1000 of the most activities every day is likely to lead to injury.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 8, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Well, "as I know it", it's entering a meditative and physiologically receptive mental state while performing some practice, according to skill level (as in, what practice you can perform qi gong in), and improving your skill on an intra-physiological level (like the programming of a computer application), manipulating basic forces and even unknown and often neglected ones. So muscle rate coding, muscle recruitment patterns, blood pressure, and fluid levels would behave differently than when in normal consciousness (mindset), because you are so receptive and focused on your own performance of an activity. It's also more holistic and aesthetic, rather than the mind focusing on specifics it improves your aesthetic logic (i.e. analogic) of the body. This is already something we do, when we feel or sense qualities and changes in our physiological state and make associations of what's good to do when and where, what's bad to do when and where, etc, but that happens less often, with less sophistication and less receptively than with qi gong. We can feel more or less "fresh", "invigorated", "accomplished", "fluid", "strong", so on and so forth, but qi gong is meant to bring you in contact with more of these qualities at once and to process them more intelligently and thoroughly.
> 
> I already posted some articles on tree qi gong you can check out. Attempting to perform qi gong or meditation whilst doing push ups is similar in principle, but requires some learning and skill development like anything does when applying it to something new.
> .



First, do you realize there are different types of Qigong: Medical, Martial and Scholar. Also that there are different categories; Internal and external.

And I am not looking to learn what you are calling "Tree Qigong" I already teach it. I am wondering what you think it is. So the articles are of no importance.

You are approaching qigong from the external perspective and that is all well and good with what you are calling "Pushup" qigong, although I think you may be missing the point. What you are talking about is also talked about by Bruce Lee in his first book "Chinese Gung Fu: The Philosophical Art of Self-Defense" and it is not exactly Qigong. You may want to pick that up. I also recommend that you read "The Root of Chinese Qigong: Secrets of Health, Longevity, & Enlightenment" by Yang Jwing-Ming it will give you a much better understanding of what Qigong is

However the Zhang Zhuan posture; Tree, Post, etc. whatever you prefer to call it. Is not an external practice and there are many, including myself, that do not call it qigong at all. But then there are those that do and I am not going to argue that point. Your approach to that, based on your rather long answer about what qigong is says you are missing the mark on that one

And, I do not mean to offend, but your writing style, in your answer, seems a bit stilted.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 8, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Try standing in one place for 8 hours, without moving.



Are you advocating doing so?  If so, why?

There are many things I cannot do.  Many of them are not worthwhile.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 8, 2018)

Primal Monk said:


> Try standing in one place for 8 hours, without moving.



I cannot imagine any circumstances in which I would WANT to. This would be incredibly unhealthy. I don't see any reason why I'd want to intentionally set myself up for a DVT.



> Can you stand in one spot for 8 hours without any pain, discomfort, and stiffness? Without walking around or moving too much at all?



No. Doing so would be stupid and incredibly unhealthy. 
I do, however, spend 12 hour shifts on my feet, including heavy lifting, without the slightest difficulty.

[QUOTE}
 People who perform qi gong learn subtle techniques and principles by being receptive to their body whilst performing activities; not basically receptive, but deeply receptive (meditative). There are already clear benefits for meditation, or do you already know how to sit and do nothing? They're not the same thing at all. Increased grey matter, improved happiness, improved cognition, improved health long-term and over-all, improved focus, and a few other things are the result of meditation.[/QUOTE]

Really? Increased grey matter? Please show me proof. I'll accept post-mortem exams, CT, MRI or PET scans.
What utter nonsense.


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## Buka (Feb 8, 2018)

If I'm not working, training, or hiking with my wife,  I'll never run when I can walk, walk when I can stand, stand when I can sit, or sit when I can lie the F down.

It's why man invented the remote.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 8, 2018)

I believe that meditation and qi-gong can have a healthy place in ones life.

However, everything must be done within reason.

Extensive, multi-hour sessions of standing meditation, or sitting and doing nothing, simply burn up hours of your life in the pursuit of some nebulous benefit that someone told you you would get, with little or no evidence to support it.

What a waste of time and waste of a life.

If some zen master outlined an 8-hour qi-gong and meditation schedule that he promised would let you live to be 200 years old if you did it every day without fail, would you go for it?

That would be throwing your entire life away in chase of something that is likely untrue, and certainly has little evidence to support it.  What a hollow, lonely, unproductive life that would be. Friends?  Family? Education? Travel? Satisfying career?  Nope.  None of it.  You are too busy meditating all the time.  Who buys your groceries and pays your rent for you?

Utterly undoable and a waste if you tried.

What a fantasy.


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