# treating bruising/injuries... other than Jow



## Rob87 (Jul 8, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm sure many of us use some kind of Dit Da Jow to help condition our arms and to disperse blood stasis when training hard etc... but does anybody use any kind of acupuncture or other TCM?

I know acupuncture was originally used mainly in the injury and trauma side of medicine and was wandering if anybody knew any techniques/points to help remove blood stasis/bruising from an injury to compliment the Jow.

Cheers.


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## Carol (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't personally use the jows, but I've had very good luck with taking ester-C to speed the healing of bruising.  Perhaps that may make a good compliment to the jows as well?


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## DaleDugas (Jul 8, 2010)

Rob,

You cannot purchase acupuncture needles and use them on yourself unless you are a licensed acupuncturist.  

If you are interested in learning about other techniques and material, you should investigate with a local acupuncturist or acupuncture school.

Where do you live?

I can direct you to a licensed acupuncturist who can help you.

If you are in the Boston area, I can talk to you about this personally.


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## lhommedieu (Jul 9, 2010)

Rob87 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm sure many of us use some kind of Dit Da Jow to help condition our arms and to disperse blood stasis when training hard etc... but does anybody use any kind of acupuncture or other TCM?
> 
> ...



Take a look at Tom Bisio's A Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth.  It contains excellent protocols for treating injuries for the non-acupuncturist.  You can find my review of Tom's book on amazon.com.

Best,

Steve


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## SapphireStar (Jul 9, 2010)

I've used some pills called "The Great Mender" and they worked a miracle within 2 days.

I have arthritis in my hands and usually the Southern Mantis boxing wasn't bothering me because it wasn't direct hand punching.  However, teacher decided to let me try iron hand training on a beginners sand bag and that made me hurt miserably for a week.  I was at a loss as what to do, nothing was helping so I consulted an herbalist, who recommended these pills.   My hands stopped hurting severely within 2 days.  Still mild pain, but the severe pain was gone in my wrist and hands. 

We had used jow on my hands before practicing, but I believe the bruising was deep into the bone and tissue, not just surface.  

Yeh, I know,  the sandbag training wasn't one of my brightest decision-making moments.


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## Rob87 (Jul 9, 2010)

Hi Steve, I have Tom Bisio's book, it's a great book!  Lots of good ways to treat injuries.

Hi Dale, I am actually studying a TCM degree at university so I have access to needles hence why I'd like to know different techniques to deal with bruising etc... I currently get to treat patients on a weekly basis in a training clinic, although unfortunately I don't see that many injuries or bruising specifically so we don't learn techniques to disperse blood stasis so much.

Regards, Rob.


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## General_Tso (Jul 23, 2010)

one word.....

Arnica. 

Arnica is awesome stuff. As long as you get it on the "injured" area fairly quickly, it will not bruise or swell. 

One of my neighbors has a small kid, and the little boy fell and busted his face on the wall or ground or something. We took the arnica cream over and let his mom wipe some on. The next day you could see where she wiped the cream, and where she missed. He had non-buised stripes of flesh about the size of his mothers fingers, where she missed there was bruise - proof positive the stuff works great. 

Arnica Here


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## Tez3 (Jul 24, 2010)

General_Tso said:


> one word.....
> 
> Arnica.
> 
> ...


 

I agree wholeheartedly, Arnica is good stuff, I use a mixture of Arnica and Witchhazel made into a cooling gel ( it's for horses really lol but fine for humans) Arnica tablets are good to take before an extraction at the dentist or any similiar type of procedure.


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## lhommedieu (Jul 25, 2010)

Rob87 said:


> Hi Steve, I have Tom Bisio's book, it's a great book!  Lots of good ways to treat injuries.
> 
> Hi Dale, I am actually studying a TCM degree at university so I have access to needles hence why I'd like to know different techniques to deal with bruising etc... I currently get to treat patients on a weekly basis in a training clinic, although unfortunately I don't see that many injuries or bruising specifically so we don't learn techniques to disperse blood stasis so much.
> 
> Regards, Rob.



I have found that needling around the bruise combined with needles upstream and downstream of the meridian that passes through the affected area, and associated points on the same energetic circuit, works just fine.  If the bruise in on the upper Yang Ming (say, in the Large Intestine 10 area, then treat locally and on the LI meridian - but treat ashi points on the contralateral lower Yang Ming (say, in the ST 36 area) as well.  SP 6 bilateral would be a nice way to round out the treatment as it provides a Yin Balance and helps to strengthen the circuit.    This is the simplest (and often most effective) way to treat high with low, left with right, etc.  Of course, you can treat using different meridian circuit variations, but often it's just K.I.S.S.

John Pirog's book on _Meridian Style Acupuncture_ is a good place to start for this approach.  After that I would look at Joe Helms' _Acupuncture Energetics_, and finally at _Rheumatology in Chinese Medicine_.  All three or more or less influenced by the French Meridian Style method.

For a fine introduction to the Taoist ontology that underlies all three books above, I recommend Jacob Godwin's _Acupuncture in Black and White_.

Best,

Steve


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## Rabu (Jul 27, 2010)

John Pirog was a good instructor and I always enjoyed talking to him after class.


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## lhommedieu (Jul 27, 2010)

Re. John Pirog:

Haven't looked at his book about healing sounds but I'm sure it's well researched and practical.

_Meridian Style Acupuncture_ was the first non-TCM book that I looked at in acupuncture school and I found it very helpful to understand some of the underlying Daoist concepts that sort of get lost in school while you're studying for the NCCAOM exam.  If you like this kind of approach (and I do) then Jacob Godwin's _Acupuncture in Black and White_ has the same kind of straight-forward, non-pretentious tone that _MSA_ has, and also stresses fundamentals in the same way.  I found that Pirog's explanations helped my to understand the concepts in a way that simply memorizing the correspondences or the 5-Element cycles couldn't show me.  Joe Helms' _Acupuncture Energetics_ has a lot of the French Meridian acupuncture influence that _MSA_ touches on (I believe that Pirog was Mark Seem's student at Tri-State) - but takes it to the next level.

I still have my torn, tattered, much-read and underlined copy of Meridian Style Acupuncture on my bookshelf.  I should take it out again and re-read it - particularly the chapters on the energetic qualities of the meridians.

Anyhow, for what it's worth Pirog references van Nghi's treatment of the tendinomuscular meridians, which might be another way to treat bruising as per the topic of this thread.

Best,

Steve


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## wushuguy (Jul 28, 2010)

DaleDugas said:


> Rob,
> 
> You cannot purchase acupuncture needles and use them on yourself unless you are a licensed acupuncturist.
> ...



Actually you "should not" purchase acupuncture needles unless licensed. however it is still possible to buy them, there are a number of unlicensed acupuncturists from foreign countries who have really good skill, but come to the usa, they didn't have or could not get a license (for various reasons). If meet one, you might be able to have some lessons and also purchase some needles, lancets, 7-star needles, etc. 

Or if you know how to talk to the suppliers you can find some suppliers will still sell to you, but whether or not one has training is another question, as it it stupid to needle oneself without proper training first.

 That said, there's many ways to do for a bruise or injury aside from acupuncture, as has been mentioned already.

You can also learn shiatsu which is helpful, or if you really want to needle but don't know how or can't purchase, then you can go with those medical laser devices for acupuncture. Personally I found that more convenient because I can do it at work or wherever, but it requires one to hold it in place whereas the needles can stay put once have it on and also can add mugwart to the end of the needle for moxibustion effect, etc.


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## lhommedieu (Aug 2, 2010)

Just to keep the conversation moving:

  Although I think that jow to the affected area plus acupuncture to the primary meridian circuit is all that is really necessary,  bruises that takes a long time to heal might require additional support.  In the case of the latter, one might want to look at whether there are some underlying causes (Spleen Qi Def.? Liver Qi Def.? etc.) and treat on a more internal level.

  Bruising may also be substantial in which case you would want to treat it more assertively.  Some more thoughts on this:

  Included in the meridian-style acupuncture method outlined above, acupuncture to the Xi Cleft points on the affected meridians might help - particularly if the bruising was in an acute stage.

  The use of the bleeding combined with cupping as per above is very effective for resolving bruises.  For late-stage bone bruises, moxa can be very helpful to move Qi and Blood at a deeper level.

Use of the Influential Points is useful depending on whether the bruising occurs primarily on the level of the muscle, tendon, or bone.

  For example, you might want to treat locally first, and then try the following treatment as a more general approach to get the stagnant blood moving and reabsorbed back into the body:

  GB 34 (Regulates Liver Qi [helps to move Blood]; Influential Point of Tendons [tendons are often affected in martial arts injuries and take longer to heal])
  LV 3 (Moves Liver Qi and Blood)
  BL 18 (Back Shu Point of Liver)
  BL 17 (Influential Pont of Blood)
  Moxa to SP 10 (Moves Blood)

  Every case will be different but the above should be an effective and general follow-up technique.  Try it and let me know what happens.

  Best,

  Steve


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## Domino (May 6, 2011)

Use my fingers to get deep where it hurts, massage firmly in circles, if it hurts its working. Usually gone the following day, same goes for bruises but may take a few days to 'yellow' out.


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