# A question re. pressure points.



## thetruth (Mar 3, 2006)

Forgive me if this becomes a little disjointed as typing thoughts as they come to me.    George Dillman essentially introduced pressure points to the western world and popularised them. He did this by going to a few seminars, taking video of them and going home and from what little info he had he nutted out how they work (this is just general not meant to be detailed).   He went on to knock people out  all over the world as did  his students.  

My old instructor in Australia went over to learn of George and came back doing the same thing.  He eventually stopped knocking people all the way out due to the harm it can cause.  A lady who could see peoples aura was over in the states when my instructor was over there and when some people were knocked out their aura disappeared.  

My old instructor is also the only person under 45 i know who has had brain cancer and a heart attack (and he is pretty fit, not overweight).

Do you think there was a reason the chinese/okinawans did not show the western world this part of their art??   The western ego perhaps?

To be hitting/tapping points on others there has to be karmic recourse of some sort.  If ones intentions are not pure when practicing such things and are more along the lines of 'look what i can do'  or 'see how good i am'; do you think that  the energy of the person hitting is effected in a negative way?

I also believe that it is intentions that make the difference in what I'm saying.  By this I mean that if you practice an art that does not utilize pressure points and are hitting using blunt force trauma then even if you inadvertantly hit points the karmic consequences to you are miniscule compared to if your intentions were to hit certain areas and affect that persons energy.

We are all connected energetically so I really believe people should be super careful when messing with such things. 

Just some thoughts.  What do people think??

Have a super day 
Cheers
Sam


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## Flying Crane (Mar 3, 2006)

thetruth said:
			
		

> A lady who could see peoples aura was over in the states when my instructor was over there and when some people were knocked out their aura disappeared.


 
Well I don't know about the rest, but I would be suspicious of this bit.


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## MJS (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm far from a pressure point expert, but they do have their place.  IMO, I feel that they're best used against a grabbing type of attack.  Personally, I'm not one for being on the receiving end of constantly being KO'd.  Not sure if any long term damage is/can be done, but I would think that nothing good can come from that.

Mike


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 3, 2006)

He may have introduces it to much of the western world but he would watch my instructor do nerve strikes at tournament and talk with people like Dr. Pai about such things years befor he really learned much about them from the man he claims taught him.


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## SAVAGE (Mar 3, 2006)

I study pressure points and if STRUCK...you can cause serious damage...but as for no touch,aura and all that other myth stuff...refer to my response in the the no touch knock out thread....George Dillman has benn proven to be a charlatan...period!


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## eyebeams (Mar 5, 2006)

thetruth said:
			
		

> Forgive me if this becomes a little disjointed as typing thoughts as they come to me. George Dillman essentially introduced pressure points to the western world and popularised them. He did this by going to a few seminars, taking video of them and going home and from what little info he had he nutted out how they work (this is just general not meant to be detailed). He went on to knock people out all over the world as did his students.



Not really, no. Dillman studied with some Okinawans pretty briefly ad then filled in the rest from derivations of other things. Touch knockoouts are categorically fraudulent as a self-defense technique. All Okinawan arts that study pressure points legitimately also practice some form of full contact fighting and body conditioning.

This is because the locations of meridians and tsubo are not really meant to be memorized in exactly detail as much as bring home certain ways of striking and picking targets. The key to this is to learn what is called the "slow" or "dead" hand and the proper angle of attack. This is generally at a 90 degree angle to the orientation of the tsubo.



> Do you think there was a reason the chinese/okinawans did not show the western world this part of their art?? The western ego perhaps?



No; they did. It's never been a secret. You can quickly deduce proper methods from studying easy to acquire texts. The reason things like Hohan Soken's charts are important is more of a lineage thing.



> To be hitting/tapping points on others there has to be karmic recourse of some sort. If ones intentions are not pure when practicing such things and are more along the lines of 'look what i can do' or 'see how good i am'; do you think that the energy of the person hitting is effected in a negative way?



The purpose of hitting pressure points is to perfect the aspect of fighting that incorporates one's positional relationship with an attacker more fully, as opposed to perfected the movements without the relationship. Same thing with control techniques. Finally, one learns to apply these skills for therapeutic purposes. A tsubo that has a heavy yo/yang presentation typically causes muscle spasms when struck, but can be dissipated using more gentle means to relieve muscle stiffness.



> I also believe that it is intentions that make the difference in what I'm saying. By this I mean that if you practice an art that does not utilize pressure points and are hitting using blunt force trauma then even if you inadvertantly hit points the karmic consequences to you are miniscule compared to if your intentions were to hit certain areas and affect that persons energy.



Pressure point techniques are merely a more efficient means of delivering blunt force trauma.



> We are all connected energetically so I really believe people should be super careful when messing with such things.
> 
> Just some thoughts.  What do people think??



I do not share your beliefs.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 6, 2006)

thetruth said:
			
		

> My old instructor in Australia went over to learn of George and came back doing the same thing. He eventually stopped knocking people all the way out due to the harm it can cause. A lady who could see peoples aura was over in the states when my instructor was over there and when some people were knocked out their aura disappeared.
> 
> My old instructor is also the only person under 45 i know who has had brain cancer and a heart attack (and he is pretty fit, not overweight).


 
Did you know, Sam that your old instructor spent a whole 2 months with Mr. D. and thats how he got 6th Dan.



> Do you think there was a reason the chinese/okinawans did not show the western world this part of their art?? The western ego perhaps?


 
There are some people, trained in the Chinese arts, that believe the Okinawans got almost none of the information relating to pressure point combat, and that the Japanese got even less.



> To be hitting/tapping points on others there has to be karmic recourse of some sort. If ones intentions are not pure when practicing such things and are more along the lines of 'look what i can do' or 'see how good i am'; do you think that the energy of the person hitting is effected in a negative way?


 
Newtons Law my friend. For *EVERY ACTION* there *MUST* be an *EQUAL and OPPOSITE REACTION. *I guess you can draw your own conclusion.



> I also believe that it is intentions that make the difference in what I'm saying. By this I mean that if you practice an art that does not utilize pressure points and are hitting using blunt force trauma then even if you inadvertantly hit points the karmic consequences to you are miniscule compared to if your intentions were to hit certain areas and affect that persons energy.


 
I would agree that this is true. How many times do we see videos and seminars, where the guy says, "Never strike this point, it's a kill shot"? Then he belts the absolute Bejaysus out of some silly volunteer, and he doesn't die.... It's all about intent. If you had the mindset of the ancient warriors, then your intent would be to kill. Then I reckon that the death point would work.



> We are all connected energetically so I really believe people should be super careful when messing with such things.


 
Scientists have run tests and proven that energetically, we are all connected. So yes I believe that what you say is right.



> Have a super day


 
I will, you do the same 

--Dave


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## thetruth (Mar 7, 2006)

Welcome back Cobby


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## D.Cobb (Mar 9, 2006)

Thanks mate, glad to be here


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## Gentle Fist (Mar 9, 2006)

> Forgive me if this becomes a little disjointed as typing thoughts as they come to me. George Dillman essentially introduced pressure points to the western world and popularized them. He did this by going to a few seminars, taking video of them and going home and from what little info he had he nutted out how they work (this is just general not meant to be detailed). He went on to knock people out all over the world as did his students.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## thetruth (Mar 23, 2006)

fistlaw720 said:
			
		

> > Forgive me if this becomes a little disjointed as typing thoughts as they come to me. George Dillman essentially introduced pressure points to the western world and popularized them. He did this by going to a few seminars, taking video of them and going home and from what little info he had he nutted out how they work (this is just general not meant to be detailed). He went on to knock people out all over the world as did his students.
> >
> >
> >
> > ...


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## Hand Sword (Mar 23, 2006)

I beleive that they exist, and anything is possible. However, all of the touch stuff is done by a volunteer standing there allowing it to happen. It's a whole other thing in a full speed engagement against an unwilling participant. Hitting the major stuff is hard enough, let alone all of the little spots on the body.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 23, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> I beleive that they exist, and anything is possible. However, all of the touch stuff is done by a volunteer standing there allowing it to happen. It's a whole other thing in a full speed engagement against an unwilling participant.


 
Dude, you are quite right. I have had this discussion with Dillman people and his breakaway group of wannabes at Kyusho International. None of them will accept that they aren't doing it right. Somewhere on this board, you'll find a thread where myself and the infamous RyuShiKan, got stuck into some of the DKI guys.



> Hitting the major stuff is hard enough, let alone all of the little spots on the body.


 
That's why you train.... If you look at the very first drill you ever learnt, I'll bet you couldn't do it on a senior rank in sparring the first time you tried it. A few years later, with a bit of training under your belt, I'll reckon that you can do it at least some of the time.
Pressure point striking is the same. You train it, and you drill it and when you need to you can do it. Also, the area of activation, is about the size of a human eye. Instead of seeing little dots all over your opponent, imagine him covered in eyes. 

Seriously though, if you can't train it at speed, then how do you know if it will work on the street?

--Dave


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 23, 2006)

i have limited belief in the combat effectiveness of pressure points.  while there's definitely something going on there (otherwise accupressure and accupuncture wouldn't work), they seem like awful small targets to try and strike when the bad guy is coming at you full speed with intent.  

also, i had a long talk with a guy from idaho who used to do 'tap knockouts' by manipulating pressure points at seminars, parties and the like.  he refuses to do so anymore, and tries to get others to stop.  he says that several people he used to do that to developed long-term health problems later on.  he blames is irresponsible manipulation of their chi for this.

any thoughts?


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## Doc (Mar 23, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> I beleive that they exist, and anything is possible. However, all of the touch stuff is done by a volunteer standing there allowing it to happen. It's a whole other thing in a full speed engagement against an unwilling participant. Hitting the major stuff is hard enough, let alone all of the little spots on the body.


Not really. We have no problem with it when body mechanics are executed properly.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 23, 2006)

If that's really true, then that's trully great. But, if you are referring to class with students, then again, that's with willing participants. They know how to "move" properly. An attacker won't, and will throw and move  from weird angles. Do you train for this, a "street fight" scenario, or are your mechanics designed to fit in with other proper movements?


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## D.Cobb (Mar 24, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> If that's really true, then that's trully great. But, if you are referring to class with students, then again, that's with willing participants. They know how to "move" properly. An attacker won't, and will throw and move from weird angles. Do you train for this, a "street fight" scenario, or are your mechanics designed to fit in with other proper movements?


 
Do you train for self defence in street situations? How do you do this? I'm sure, if your school does reality self defence training then you would probably do similar if not the same sort of drills, scenario/ role playing etc. that we do.

Believe me sir, if you do not successfully stop the attack that is coming your way in our hall, then you will be hurt. That is to say that at no time is your attacker/ training partner going to be compliant in the initial attack. 

Just wondering sir, what style do you train in?

--Dave


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## D.Cobb (Mar 24, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Not really. We have no problem with it when body mechanics are executed properly.


 
My point exactly sir. If you train it like it was real, then when it is real you'll do it like you trained it.

--Dave


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2006)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Do you train for self defence in street situations? How do you do this? --Dave


 

The same way as always. I get into fights! Growing up and now for quite awhile at work. Trust me sir, your dojo training partners move the way they were trained to, full speed or not. Those pin point mechanics used in the defenses fit those moves. People in real encounters don't move that way. As I said, no matter your training, it's hard enough to get the big targets, let alone focussing on pressure points on the body. 

Keep it simple, forget about the touch stuff!


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## Doc (Mar 24, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> The same way as always. I get into fights! Growing up and now for quite awhile at work. Trust me sir, your dojo training partners move the way they were trained to, full speed or not. Those pin point mechanics used in the defenses fit those moves. People in real encounters don't move that way. As I said, no matter your training, it's hard enough to get the big targets, let alone focussing on pressure points on the body.


Clearly sir your experience and understanding of pressure points is quite limited. They don't work for you because no one has given you the knowledge or skill for their applications. My students and I have had more confrontations in a week than most have in a lifetime, and I am fairly familiar with the differences between the 'street' where I work, and the school environment.

Right now what you do works for you, but you should be cautious about condeming things you don't have knowledge of. They work, and very well. Full speed and improvised. Somedays, my life depends on it.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2006)

As I said, If you can do it for real Great! God Bless You! I'm not condemming anything. I said earlier that i beleive that they exist and anything is possible (regarding the touch K.o.'s). I just said that I prefer to keep it simple and straight forward for real. In my opinion, there's no time to push, press, etc.. on the body. I'm sure at work you and your students don't always get the results your looking for. Pain tolerance, drugs, and alcohol, don't allow for that.


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## Doc (Mar 24, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Pain tolerance, drugs, and alcohol, don't allow for that.


This subject is 'over your head.' True pressure point applications are not 'pain compliance' techniques sir, therefore pain tolerance, or drug and alcohol intoxication have no impact on effectiveness. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but in an open forum discussing a topic of which you have no knowledge, you may give others false impressions.


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## Michael Billings (Mar 24, 2006)

Pain compliance can be a part of "pressing" pressure points, but so can healing ... and that can be a bit painful also.  

There is a difference when striking, angle of incidence, and the natural weapon you strike with.  I would generally say that "pain", per se, is seldom part of the pressure point strike itself.  The opponents' reactions are way faster than "yielding" to pain allows.  They just drop ... it is way cool.  I would also paraphrase Doc here in that if you train for failure, that is what you get.


-Michael


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## D.Cobb (Mar 25, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> As I said, If you can do it for real Great! God Bless You! I'm not condemming anything. I said earlier that i beleive that they exist and anything is possible (regarding the touch K.o.'s). I just said that I prefer to keep it simple and straight forward for real. In my opinion, there's no time to push, press, etc.. on the body. I'm sure at work you and your students don't always get the results your looking for. Pain tolerance, drugs, and alcohol, don't allow for that.


 
Hmmm, a very wise man once told me, "If it relies on pain to work, then it's doomed to fail."

Over the years, I have made this my number 1 mantra.

--Dave


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## kamishinkan (Mar 25, 2006)

I do not know of these groups; Mr. Dillman, etc. The art I train in uses meridians, pressure points used mainly for pain compliance. We all realize that they have their place but for pain compliance they may be limited. 
 I trained with a Hakko Ryu Jujutsu Shihan once and without telling me knocked me out by "slapping" the back of my thigh. First thing I noted is that it did not seem to be a hard target to hit, of course this was after I woke up (with his help). Secondly, It did not take my participation which I always was told it required. I do not know enough about this application of Pressure Points but after that encounter, I am a believer!


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## D.Cobb (Mar 26, 2006)

kamishinkan said:
			
		

> I do not know of these groups; Mr. Dillman, etc. The art I train in uses meridians, pressure points used mainly for pain compliance. We all realize that they have their place but for pain compliance they may be limited.
> I trained with a Hakko Ryu Jujutsu Shihan once and without telling me knocked me out by "slapping" the back of my thigh. First thing I noted is that it did not seem to be a hard target to hit, of course this was after I woke up (with his help). Secondly, It did not take my participation which I always was told it required. I do not know enough about this application of Pressure Points but after that encounter, I am a believer!


 
Hehe, don't you love it.... I got told, "I want you to take my head off." Man, I did 8 years of American Kenpo before I met this instructor. If a senior rank tells me to take his head off, I'm gonna do it or go down trying 

He stopped me cold, but I wasn't out. I just couldn't move, but didn't know why. In my head I was thinking hit him again, you'll get him this time, but I couldn't move. Then he tapped the side of my jaw.... It didn't hurt, and I'm thinking, "what was that supposed to prove?". Then this cloud comes down over my eyes, and I can still see him through the cloud... then my legs buckled and down I went.

I remember it like yesterday, it was so soft but it affected me like no other hit before it. In the Kenpo school where I had trained, we were full contact. I had never been stopped like this. Going down under pain, when the other guy just does that little bit more than you can handle, is one thing... But to be stopped by a tap like you'd use to knock on a window, something so soft..... Man, that convinced me.

--Dave


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## kamishinkan (Mar 26, 2006)

Yes, It was amazing to "feel". He did not stop me but he side stepped my attack (by the way we train just short of all out and I tried to "take his head off" as well), he open hand slapped the back of my thigh and stepped back. I stopped, looked at him as if to say "what was that?", at this point I felt nothing strange for about 2 seconds and then I felt as if the "energy" (don't have a better word for it) was draining out of me until I collapsed. Next thing I know I am coming to with him perfroming Koho Shiatsu (finger accu-pressure method of Hakko Ryu) on my thigh.
 I learned a valuable lesson that day about doubting things because I did not have knowledge of them!


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## Doc (Mar 26, 2006)

There is more knowledge out there than some realize, but its in the hands of a very, very few real teachers. The rest are just rearranging ways to hit somebody as hard as they can while they wear the 'emperors new stripes.' 99.99% have no clue.


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## kenposikh (Mar 26, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> There is more knowledge out there than some realize, but its in the hands of a very, very few real teachers. The rest are just rearranging ways to hit somebody as hard as they can while they wear the 'emperors new stripes.' 99.99% have no clue.


 
I wholeheartedly agree with you there Doc, I have personally experienced pressuire point knockouts using the simplest of basic strikes and I can assure everyone that there was no pain but there certainly was a loss of time space and awareness  cheers Doc 

:asian:


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## Doc (Mar 26, 2006)

kenposikh said:
			
		

> I wholeheartedly agree with you there Doc, I have personally experienced pressuire point knockouts using the simplest of basic strikes and I can assure everyone that there was no pain but there certainly was a loss of time space and awareness  cheers Doc
> 
> :asian:


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## Gentle Fist (Mar 26, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> There is more knowledge out there than some realize, but its in the hands of a very, very few real teachers. The rest are just rearranging ways to hit somebody as hard as they can while they wear the 'emperors new stripes.' 99.99% have no clue.


 
So true!!


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## Hand Sword (Mar 26, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> This subject is 'over your head.' True pressure point applications are not 'pain compliance' techniques sir, therefore pain tolerance, or drug and alcohol intoxication have no impact on effectiveness. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but in an open forum discussing a topic of which you have no knowledge, you may give others false impressions.


 
Actually not, sir. My education in this has been ongoing for a number of years. As to pain compliance techniques, I never said that is what they were. Pain tolerance was the word used, and that was just an example of the variables. I didn't want to list everything. Either way, your still talking about manipulating an opponent. These activation points, etc... require a lot of specifics. My opinion was don't try this in a real fight. There's no time, and too many variables are involved as it is, that change second to second. Don't complicate things by adding this PP stuff, your life is on the line! As for opinions in the open forum, that goes both ways, sir! You are giving others, who are less experienced a false impression of how easy they are to pull off. Anyone who understands dealing with real encounters knows to strip away complications and keep it simple! If people can keep fighting with no ill effects after having a groin "attacked", ears ripped off, cheeks ripped off, noses broken, and etc.. There's no point in playing "connect the dots".


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## Doc (Mar 26, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> Actually not, sir. My education in this has been ongoing for a number of years. As to pain compliance techniques, I never said that is what they were. Pain tolerance was the word used, and that was just an example of the variables. I didn't want to list everything. Either way, your still talking about manipulating an opponent. These activation points, etc... require a lot of specifics. My opinion was don't try this in a real fight. There's no time, and too many variables are involved as it is, that change second to second. Don't complicate things by adding this PP stuff, your life is on the line! As for opinions in the open forum, that goes both ways, sir! You are giving others, who are less experienced a false impression of how easy they are to pull off. Anyone who understands dealing with real encounters knows to strip away complications and keep it simple! If people can keep fighting with no ill effects after having a groin "attacked", ears ripped off, cheeks ripped off, noses broken, and etc.. There's no point in playing "connect the dots".


Than I suggest you don't attempt to learn it sir because your mind is 'closed' on the subject. Your comments still suggest  a very strong lack of the grasp of what and how they function, therefore your education would appeared to be flawed or short.

You also seemed to negate the fact that myself and students have physical confrontations as part and parcel of our employment on a dialy basis, which puts us high on the experience and knowledge list. Pain tolerance/compliance is not a factor nor is it the primary goal of proper applications. It can be a byproduct, but is neither necessary or the goal.

Listen, it's ok to not understand it, or even be interested in their applications, but to dismiss it to someone who has the functional expertise in the real world, and keep reciting the same over again doesn't seem very prudent. Your statements are all wrong and have absolutely no relevancy to how they function or this conversation, therefore your opinion is personal but not backed by a knowledgeable/experience assessment.

I don't believe any of us who have advocated for developing an understanding of this component would ever suggest it's 'easy.' If it were you, and others like you would be doing it.  real knowledge is truly hard to come by. However, you are correct about one thing. You should stick with what you think works for you. Now, that is a smart move.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 26, 2006)

"WHO"S THE MASTER?------------------- SHO" NUFF!!!!!!!!"

You know what they say about assumptions sir! 
I never said it was a goal, and I know what you do for a living-- You keep using it to boost your arguments. I also deal with it for a living, and felt, seen the results. I have already said that I beleive in them, and their use twice. As for opinions-- they are all personal, by everyone. We all do what works for us. I said that if you use them for real--CONGRATULATIONS! Your personal attacks are what are not releveant to this or any other conversation. With all due respect sir, your a kenpo senior or "ancient" as you've called yourself. Try acting like one! Show some humility and respect, not everyone is as perfect as *YOU* and *YOUR *students.


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## Doc (Mar 26, 2006)

Hand Sword said:
			
		

> "WHO"S THE MASTER?------------------- SHO" NUFF!!!!!!!!"


Now that I know where you're coming from,  thanks for the exchange.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 26, 2006)

Your welcome ! 

Be safe (truly)!


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> There is more knowledge out there than some realize, but its in the hands of a very, very few real teachers. The rest are just rearranging ways to hit somebody as hard as they can while they wear the 'emperors new stripes.' 99.99% have no clue.


 
That is the unfortunate part about this stuff, is the number of so called experts who, when put to the test of time, reveal their inadequacies in such a way that all you want to do is rub their noses in it.

I have been recently involved in discussions with a *"*Grandmaster*"* who when asked, "What if you can't quite get the angle and direction right when it's real?", answered, "Just keep hitting until they fall down."

My answer would have been, "Make sure you train it hard enough and often enough and right enough in the dojo. Then when it's real, the previous question will not apply."

--Dave


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## Doc (Mar 29, 2006)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> That is the unfortunate part about this stuff, is the number of so called experts who, when put to the test of time, reveal their inadequacies in such a way that all you want to do is rub their noses in it.
> 
> I have been recently involved in discussions with a *"*Grandmaster*"* who when asked, "What if you can't quite get the angle and direction right when it's real?", answered, "Just keep hitting until they fall down."
> 
> ...


Try this on for size. The proper angles and directions mean nothing, if the proper posture is not achieved. That's what we train for, and with the proper mechanics, have no problem in execution.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 29, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Try this on for size. The proper angles and directions mean nothing, if the proper posture is not achieved. That's what we train for, and with the proper mechanics, have no problem in execution.


 
I'm not sure if I'm wording this right.....

When I maintain correct and functional body posture, and I utilise correct and functional bio mechanics, then I don't need to consider Angle and Direction, because they will present themselves due to the aforementioned posture and mechanics.

Does that make sense? (It's past my bedtime)

--Dave


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## Doc (Mar 29, 2006)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I'm wording this right.....
> 
> When I maintain correct and functional body posture, and I utilise correct and functional bio mechanics, then I don't need to consider Angle and Direction, because they will present themselves due to the aforementioned posture and mechanics.
> 
> ...


Makes all the sense in the world. And if you were standing here, I'd show it to you. Of all the 'experts' I've ever heard, no one ever speaks of posture. And the one thing I learned from my teacher is that posture is everything.


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## RoninPimp (Mar 29, 2006)

LOL @ super secret pressure point knowledge. Blind faith anyone?


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## DavidCC (Mar 29, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> Makes all the sense in the world. And if you were standing here, I'd show it to you. Of all the 'experts' I've ever heard, no one ever speaks of posture. And the one thing I learned from my teacher is that posture is everything.


 
Speaking second-hand for my Teacher,who is a certified instructor at Kyusho International, this was the most important thing we learned when you visited us, Doc. Read their posture, manipulate it, control your own... everything else takes care of itself.  "Muscle reassignment" is so cool.


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## Doc (Mar 29, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> LOL @ super secret pressure point knowledge. Blind faith anyone?


In the history of mankind, the most sophisticated knowledge in any field has always been in the hands of a very few. Take any endeavor and you will find a very small group of people who are constantly sought out for an insight that, despite the plethora of people in the field, always seem to be ahead of everyone else. Then among that group, there is always just one or two that stand above the elite. Everyone who goes to medical school and becomes a doctor is not destined to be a great thoracic surgeon just because they graduated. It appears all doctors have at least access to the same knowledge, so why are their 'elite' in any field? Why is there always that one or two doctors that evryone knows is the 'only person' you want to do a particular procedure?

My teacher never used the word 'secret' in reference to anything. He said, "There's things you know, and things you don't know. Nobody is hiding anything, but some posess the intellect, skill, and finally the luck to have access to information that others don't. Then you must have the drive to seek it out and invest the time." - Ed Parker Sr.

There are people who know how to build skycrapers, or open a heart and put it back together, while most of us just shake our collective heads. But there is always that small group of people among them that will do it better than everyone else. 

Funny how in all the activities in the world, no one ever considers the top engineer in his field as 'knowing secrets.' E=MC2 wasn't a 'secret.' Its just not reality to think that everyone is at the same level in anything, and especially the martial arts. Besides the Chinese approach wasn't like any of the punch, kick, wrestle crowd. Their approach was science based, but there always has and will be a 'lowest common denominator' in life. And those are the ones who would have you believe, 'its all the same' and dismiss what they don't know as a 'crappy secret.' The cool thing is the ones that 'know' and the ones that know they know because they've been there, just smile

Some people flew around the world to be with Ed Parker while others couldn't. Wasn't their fault. Then there were a bunch who were lucky enough to be around him, and they didn't learn anymore than anyone else who wasn't around him. See the intellect, skill, luck, time, and drive equation.

"If a guy tell you his pea shooter is as good as your machine gun, that's his problem not yours. Sooner or later reality will hit him smack in the face." - Ed Parker Sr.

"You can't save everyone and don't even try. Just try to not be living next door to them when they go off and the police come." - Dennis Miller


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## Bode (Mar 29, 2006)

Doc said:
			
		

> My teacher never used the word 'secret' in reference to anything. He said, "There's things you know, and things you don't know. Nobody is hiding anything, but some posess the intellect, skill, and finally the luck to have access to information that others don't. Then you must have the drive to seek it out and invest the time." - Ed Parker Sr.


I must support Doc on this. As his student I am constantly discovering something new as I watch him move. Was it a secret? No. Was it my lack of a trained eye? Yes. I simply couldn't see the minute details because I hadn't educated myself at that particular level. 
I equate it to reading a technical book. Read it once and you retain an overview. Read it twice and you remember a little more. Read it again and you start to actually understand the material.


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## RoninPimp (Mar 29, 2006)

So you guys can demonstrate repeatable effective pressure point techniques against resisting opponents?


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## D.Cobb (Mar 30, 2006)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> Speaking second-hand for my Teacher,who is a certified instructor at Kyusho International, this was the most important thing we learned when you visited us, Doc. Read their posture, manipulate it, control your own... everything else takes care of itself. "Muscle reassignment" is so cool.


 
Just wondering David, who is your instructor? 

--Dave


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## D.Cobb (Mar 30, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> So you guys can demonstrate repeatable effective pressure point techniques against resisting opponents?


 
Not only resisting, but also non compliant.  

--Dave


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## Doc (Mar 30, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> So you guys can demonstrate repeatable effective pressure point techniques against resisting opponents?


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## DavidCC (Mar 30, 2006)

D.Cobb said:
			
		

> Just wondering David, who is your instructor?
> 
> --Dave


 
His name is Shawn Steiner

http://www.kyusho.com/instructors.htm


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## RoninPimp (Mar 30, 2006)

> Not only resisting, but also non compliant.


-You guys are set to revolutionize the MA world then!


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## Hand Sword (Mar 30, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> -You guys are set to revolutionize the MA world then!


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## D.Cobb (Mar 31, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> -You guys are set to revolutionize the MA world then!


 
The information is out there, but like Doc said, not everyone will get it or understand it.
Also, some people aren't prepared to take the time it takes to learn this stuff.

--Dave


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