# when do you think a "kid" becomes "adult"?



## Bammx2 (May 2, 2005)

I'm just curious on this subject and wondered what other people think.

 "Law"...says you're an adult at 18.
 Basically...you can vote and die fpr your country at 18.
  Why can't you vote at 16? 
 You have to pay taxes at 16 if you have a job.Shouldn't you be allowed to voice your opinions if you have pay taxes just like everyone else?
 Drivers license at 16.
 You can enlist in the military at 17.
 You can be tried in a court of law as an adult in some states as young as 15-16 depending on the crime.
 Still can't drink til 21 though........hhmm.
  I saw a show a loooooong time ago,DONAHUE to be exact(remember him?),
 and he had 2 teenagers who had written a paper on "testing" for teenagers to qualify them for voting.
 Thier point being,and I agree, was that some people have higher intelligence levels at a certain age than what the "law" will recognise.
 Now....
  Lets forget about BB gradings,society perceptions  and such.....
 At what point do you think a person could qualify as an "adult"?
 Life experience?
 IQ?
 Type of education?

 Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you are entirely smart.
  Hell.....
 I'm a firm believer that if you took the majority of "educated" politicians in the world and put thier brains in a gnats ***, it would be like putting a bb in a boxcar!

 So whaddya think?


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## Brother John (May 2, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> At what point do you think a person could qualify as an "adult"?
> Life experience?
> IQ?
> Type of education?
> ...


I think there's a big difference between 'qualifying' and BEING an adult. 
There must be an official 'age' on the books at which point people are held responsible/accountable for things. This age, I believe, used to be 21. Now it's 18. There's Nothing magical that happens to you on the evening of your 364th day in your 17th year of life...no magical "Adult fairie" that magico-presto....POOOF, you're an adult. 


> Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you are entirely smart.


HECK NO!! Education means nothing in regards to maturity level, intelligence, common sense. It's not even a guarantee that a person is knowledgeable in their field. I know a few very highly educated Idiots. They may have a Phd, but they need to learn the other letters in the alphabet as well!! Heck, it's usually a better indicator of ego than of IQ.

I don't have a good answer to your question. I know what I think adulthood is, but it has nothing to do with chronological age. BUT: I will say that life experience is the BEST teacher!! With only a handfull of years under ones belt it's Hard to say they know enough yet. I don't see 'Adulthood' as something you GET, it's something you maintain daily.

Your Brother
John


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## michaeledward (May 2, 2005)

I am hoping to be able to behave as an adult sometime before I die. 

And, boy, oh, boy, wouldn't it be great to have the hard-earned knowledge I have now, and still be a "kid". 

Oh, the things I would do differently.


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## ed-swckf (May 2, 2005)

smart kids still do dumb stuff, i don't think being smart denotes being an adult half the time - i know plenty of idiotic adults.  I mean theres the physical change to take on board also, regardless of life experience or IQ a body reaches adulthood, some reach it before their minds back it up, in some cases its the other way around.  So while its not always accurate with the ages the law denotes as adulthood i really don't think testing people to see if they have attained adulthood is worthy of funding as its still not going to be ultimately accurate without mad moneys thrown at it.  The way i see it no one should be in a hurry to grow up, theres nothing great about it really.


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## TigerWoman (May 2, 2005)

I think a "kid" becomes an "adult" when they become less, a lot less self-centered.  They are more responsible to others not just to themselves.  Just because they can fight and die for their country doesn't mean they still aren't a kid still.  Probably an awakening of what they got themselves into after enlisting and being in life and death positions constantly. When you forget yourself and remember your buddy... They grow up real quick then.  But "kids" still die kids too.  

Eighteen or 21 are not the magic ages.  I have both now in my family...arrrgh! Anybody want to do a trade?  I want nice 5 year olds again.  Both of mine are immature and self-centered...  One shows responsibility, one doesn't.  But the 18 yr. old may change like the other...more than likely in the quest for independence.  No, until the mid-twenties maybe or even later, I think they are still kids until they prove differently. Until then we only see "glimmers" of "adulthood.  TW


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## TigerWoman (May 2, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> I am hoping to be able to behave as an adult sometime before I die.
> 
> And, boy, oh, boy, wouldn't it be great to have the hard-earned knowledge I have now, and still be a "kid".
> 
> Oh, the things I would do differently.




Me too.  And I would have young knees too!  Why can't we start out smart, mature, young, so we can enjoy life to the max??  TW


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## Brother John (May 2, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> And, boy, oh, boy, wouldn't it be great to have the hard-earned knowledge I have now, and still be a "kid".
> Oh, the things I would do differently.


MAN!!!! Aint that the the truth. 
I'm not exactly 'old' but I know what you're saying. Then again, maybe the mistakes I made when I was younger helped me gain the experience that helped me on my way toward or into maturity.

Your Brother
John


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## Adept (May 2, 2005)

Brother John said:
			
		

> There's Nothing magical that happens to you on the evening of your 364th day in your 17th year of life...no magical "Adult fairie" that magico-presto....POOOF, you're an adult.


 Clearly you weren't going to the same parties I was...


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## Brother John (May 2, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> Clearly you weren't going to the same parties I was...


Yeah??
You partied with 'adult fairies'??
 :uhyeah: 

ha
Your Brother
John


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## Kenpodoc (May 2, 2005)

Adulthood is a process that occurs somewhere between about 16 and 100.  No single day of magical transformation and no steady state once it's reached. 

Jeff


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## TonyM. (May 2, 2005)

Biologically speaking, children start pulling their head out of their fourth point of contact at about fourteen. As mentioned, sometimes it takes another eighty six years to complete the process.


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## Deuce (May 2, 2005)

Some kids mature faster than others, but a standard age of 18  or 19 for all adult activities is reasonable to me. Why not make it 20? This way nobody can be an adult and a teenager at the same time. What I don't understand is the variances with age requirements for legally drinking. If you're an adult at 18, why do you have to wait till you're 21 to legally drink? Here in Alberta, the magic number is 18 for everything which IMO makes sense. 

I'd be very interested in hearing any arguements or reasoning regarding the drinking age issue.


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## ginshun (May 2, 2005)

I can understand the legal drinking age being above 18.  If it is 18, the you have high school kids who can legally drink, and I don't think that is right.  Where the 21 age came from though I have no idea.  19 would make sense to me.


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## Ceicei (May 2, 2005)

My son once asked me if the word "teen" in number makes the person a teenager, then is a nineteen year old considered a teenager? Good question. Some people call twelve year olds a teen (although there is no "teen" in the word twelve).

 Now if we relate his question to this thread, it could make sense to have the "age of adult" as twenty across the board for everything. That, probably, won't be feasible though as it would require too many changing of rules and laws.

 However, I do know of some very mature teenagers and some very immature adults and that has nothing really, to do with their actual age. What marks the change to adulthood? I think it is the level of responsibility that society is willing to give. 

  - Ceicei


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## Andrew Green (May 2, 2005)

Well, there has to be a number given the way our society is structured.

 But on a individual basis, it depends.  I've met 13 year olds that where adults, and 35... ok even 50+ year olds that where petty and childish.

 As for voting... well, Most adults don't have a clue about what is going on and just vote for the guy in the party they always vote for.  If there is going to be a test, lets make it for everyone that wants to vote.

 Drinking - Mixed feelings on this, when I was in High School it was usually the ones that got told "Never, no where, under no circumstances" that abused it the worst.  Those that got told, be responsible and call if you need a ride, that didn't, they got introduced to it gradually.  Same with smoking...  There is something to the argument that if you make less of a big deal out of it it will be less of a big deal...

 Driving - There is a test!  The age, 16 seems to work, some might be able to do it younger, some shouldn't.  But they don't pass the test.  Old people on the other hand....  Ok, and the younger ones that feel they should race and do donuts...


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## shesulsa (May 2, 2005)

ginshun said:
			
		

> Where the 21 age came from though I have no idea.  19 would make sense to me.


 A nurse practitioner once told me that the human liver doesn't fully mature until about 21 years of age and that this is where the drinking age was established.  Has anyone else heard this?


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## Kenpodoc (May 2, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> A nurse practitioner once told me that the human liver doesn't fully mature until about 21 years of age and that this is where the drinking age was established.  Has anyone else heard this?


This would be new to me.  

Actually I doubt that any legislature put that much thought into it. 

Jeff


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## hardheadjarhead (May 2, 2005)

I'm reading an interesting book called "The Rise and Fall of the American Teenager."  

Up until the 1940's, the term "teenager" wasn't even in existence.  We referred to them as "youngsters," "young people," and the like.  Until the 1920's or so these young people went into the labor pool, working as soon as they were deemed large enough to do the job.  With the spread of high schools, child labor restrictions (which actually started in the 19th century) and compulsory education standards, this changed.

Prior to that change kids worked on the family farm or in the factory (often earlier than their teens).  Age of consent laws were younger...as young as ten, but more often around 12-14.  Youngsters might be married at a very young age.  One Byzantine Empire account mentions a marriage that was annulled because the bride was not yet 12, and I read an account of an eleven year old bride and seventeen year old groom who celebrated their nuptials during the seige of a Christian city.  The Muslims laying seige heard of the marriage and were chivalrous enough not to bombard the tower in which they were housed.

Eighteen was the age a peasant could enter the Roman or Macedonian armies.  43 was the compulsory age of retirement.  At eighteen most males achieve nearly their full growth and strength.  (Current military regulations likely stem from that as well as this simply is the age of graduation from high school.)  Not so long ago children...not teens, but pre-adolescents...might be found as drummers on a battlefield. 

Recently the issue of "teens" has been a hot topic in the press, wherein their role in society, how they develop, how they're different, all receive attention.  It is as if we just discovered this group and started studying them last year.

When are they mature?  Brain scans show that they aren't neurologically mature until about 21 or so.  The creators of the "Jackass" series show that some twenty-thirty somethings are lagging behind.  Still, the turmoil brought around by adolescence largely recedes at that age.  Driving statistics and crime states all show a marked drop off in risk taking behavior, homicides, and accidents as youngsters enter their twenties, as do rates of depression.  It declines further as they age.

Much of that is evidence for the legal drinking age.  A drop in vehicle deaths correlated with raising of legal drinking ages.  So the young soldier's lament that he can die for his country but can't legally drink a beer might be true, but invalidated by the number of lives we save by not allowing him and his friends to get past the bouncer.

As for joining the military at eighteen (seventeen with parental consent, true?)...one could argue that you want young and aggressive people in the military, and that makes it a good age to take them in.  Further, if you don't recruit them until 21, recruiting would fall drastically as youngsters settle into jobs and family responsibilities.  That maturation process also gives young people time to mellow to the point of reconsidering their choice of joining a potentially dangerous occupation.  Risk aversiveness goes up with age.  Likewise growing political awareness might cause a person to reconsider signing up.  A recruiter's promises might seem somewhat more supect to an older candidate for military service.  As we age, our B.S. detector becomes more refined.

At eighteen you must pay taxes.  Why?  You've supposedly entered the labor market.  High school is over and most teens either work or go on with their education.  They're not, technically, dependent on their parents and have to assume the weight of their share of the tax burden.    

But the question as to "when" they're adults might best be asked them as well, for the following reasons:

At eighteen they can legally own real estate...but most don't.   Universally everywhere in the United States you're at the age of consent at eighteen, meaning an eighteen year old can (supposedly without legal or moral penalty) sire or bear children with another person of at least eighteen...but most don't.  An eighteen year old can vote...but most don't.  If they're ready to assume the mantle of full adulthood at eighteen, or even younger, then ought they not assume the responsibilities of same?  

Now please don't let this be misconstrued.  I am a staunch defender of the young and detest the vitriol from curmudgeons who gripe "what's the matter with kids these days?"   The teen years are an age for them to model behavior and figure out what they'll be once fully grown.  Its somewhat of a dress rehearsal for adulthood.  That dress rehearsal doesn't necessarily have to have all of life's props, however, and perhaps a little stage direction is required.  

Are there precocious teens who might well be ready to assume the mantle of adulthood?  No doubt.  But certainly not all are and society isn't capable of judging their fitness individually.  Hence we have ages of consent, ages for driving, ages for political participation and ages for drinking.  

Hey...even later, you'll have ages at which you get your AARP card.  Don't be in too much of a hurry to get older.  


Regards,


Steve


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## Brother John (May 2, 2005)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> Driving - There is a test!  The age, 16 seems to work, some might be able to do it younger, some shouldn't.  But they don't pass the test.  Old people on the other hand....  Ok, and the younger ones that feel they should race and do donuts...


I know where you are coming from on this Andrew, but with car accidents where teens are at fault being THE LEADING cause of death amongst teens, I think the test should be more difficult and a DL harder to come by.
...and maybe not just ONE test, but several, over a three year period.

hmmm...

your Brother
John


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## Kane (May 2, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> I'm just curious on this subject and wondered what other people think.
> 
> "Law"...says you're an adult at 18.
> Basically...you can vote and die fpr your country at 18.
> ...


 In many countries in the world the legal age is either 18, 16, and in some countries like Iran it is 15. Japan I think has the highest legal age, which is 20 years old.

 You do bring up a good point. At 16 you can drive, drop out of high school in many states, get a job, pay taxes, enlist in the army, ect. ect. Should children over 16 be allowed to vote? I don't know, the United States is known to have young adults that are oblivious to politics. Either way will a 16 year old have the maturity to vote? I dunno, I was pretty active and interested in politics when I was 16, and knew what was going on (my views where even different than my parents). I dunno, maybe if more kids today get more known at what is going on in politics and not follow every word their parent says like me, maybe.

 I also think it doesn't make much sense that a 18-20 year old can't drink. 21 is not the legal age, it is 18. Gambling too should be open to all adults, not just those over 21.


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## dubljay (May 2, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> They're not, technically, dependent on their parents and have to assume the weight of their share of the tax burden.


 Not to nitpick here but as I am in college and over 18 my parents tax returns are still required by the governement to apply for financial aid, this is a requirement until I turn 24. Why? The reason given to me is that I am still considered a dependant of my parents.

  Ok, that being said time to add my two cents.  

 The transition from "child" to "adult" IMO is a combination of expereince and maturity level. These are subjective measurements defined individually, but rules of "comon sense" may apply. My father owned his own business while I was growing up. I spent some of my preteen years working in his business. Come high school I was working nearly as much as he was, and during breaks I worked an equal number of hours. Before I graduated high school I had a great deal of experience in the "real world" and what I would consider an above average maturity level (gained from my responsibilities within my father's business). People I have graduated with lack either the maturity level, or experience (or in some cases both) of the "average" person of our age. 

 There are some things that are determined biologically that are hard to dispute. Those facts have been metnioned by others already, so no need for redundency. 


  Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

  -Josh

_Edit:

 Abit of humor to be had here.  I read a quote once "If you don't grow up by the time you turn 35, you don't have to."
_


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## MA-Caver (May 2, 2005)

When I was a young teenager, my father kept telling me that I wouldn't be a "man" til I was 21... now I"m 43 and in retrospect... he was right.


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## arnisador (May 2, 2005)

Ya gotta pick a number, and 18 works for me.

      There's no winning.


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## Cruentus (May 3, 2005)

I just think that there should be some consistancy, and right now there is none.

At 18, your deemed responsible enough to die for your country, responsible enough to be accountable for your actions and go to jail, and your expected by the standards of the law to be an adult with the expectation that you should be able to make a living and be on your own.

Yet, your not deemed responsable enough to consume alcahol until your 21, the insurance laws all work against you through age discrimination and screwing you for the behaviors of your peers, you can't get any assets without a co-signer, and you can't even get a hotel room or rental car in most areas.

Young adult have it rougher and rougher each year.

If we expect our 18 year olds to act like adults and be responsable like adults, then they need to have the same privliges as well.

Paul


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## michaeledward (May 3, 2005)

I just want to chime in on 18 year olds & alcohol. 

Perhaps my understanding is limited but, I believe the main reason that drinking age was raised from 18 to 21 (approximately 20 years ago for you young folks), was to keep alcohol away from the 15, 16 & 17 year olds. There are many people who are 18 years of age who are Seniors (and some Juniors) in high school. The high school social circle dictates they will have friends of younger ages. Getting an 18 year old to respect the rule (and law) that says you won't provide alcohol to younger people (students) proved to be difficult.

Thus, the drinking age was raised to 21. By this age, they may still be hanging around with 20 and 19 year olds, but they are no longer in the company of high schoolers, or so the legislatures hope.

I believe the puritan influences in our culture do us a disservice in this regard. It would be better, I think if the drinking age were eliminated, and the driving age was raised to 21, and more of us served wine and beer nightly at the dinner table, rather than milk. 

But, I sure know that ain't happening anytime soon.


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## Eldritch Knight (May 3, 2005)

Bear in mind that in Europe, the legal drinking age is 12, which is more of a misnomer than anything, since it's never enforced. Then again, you'll rarely find European teenagers drinking irresponsibly (getting drunk, drinking and driving, etc.). Granted, its part of their culture, but I'd be hesitant in using "drinking age" in order to determine maturity. Even over there, kids aren't considered adults until 18.


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## Adept (May 3, 2005)

The drinking age in Australia is 18, and we have something of an epidemic of under-age binge drinking. Which is to say, underage people aren't just drinking, but drinking heavily at every opportunity.

 By comparison, I believe the USA has, per capita, a much smaller problem with underage binge drinking, perhaps because of its higher age limit on drinking.


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## dubljay (May 3, 2005)

Here is an inconsistency in the US which I haven't seen brought up here (If some one has just smack me and tell me to go back to my corner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) If the concern with underage drinking has pushed the drinking age up to 21 why hasn't the age to buy cigarettes gone up?  Who would argue that the effects are no less detrimental to the health of the individual?  Though I suppose by comparison the effects of alcohol are more immediate (as in alcohol poisoning ect.)



 -Josh


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## Sam (May 3, 2005)

you smoke ciggarettes and you dont immediate danger anyone and everyone, whereas drinking you can potentially get in a car and kill numerous people. Cigarrettes only hurt yourself... (unles you wanna argue 2nd hand smoke but the effects of that compared to drinking... drinking is obviously more of a danger to others)


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## Andrew Green (May 3, 2005)

Eldritch Knight said:
			
		

> Bear in mind that in Europe, the legal drinking age is 12, which is more of a misnomer than anything, since it's never enforced. Then again, you'll rarely find European teenagers drinking irresponsibly (getting drunk, drinking and driving, etc.). Granted, its part of their culture, but I'd be hesitant in using "drinking age" in order to determine maturity. Even over there, kids aren't considered adults until 18.


 If beer was "just another drink" I don't think we'd have as many binge drinkers.  Of course to eliminate the rule would cause some bad short term effects...


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## Adept (May 3, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> If the concern with underage drinking has pushed the drinking age up to 21 why hasn't the age to buy cigarettes gone up? Who would argue that the effects are no less detrimental to the health of the individual? Though I suppose by comparison the effects of alcohol are more immediate (as in alcohol poisoning ect.)
> 
> 
> 
> -Josh


 Ciggarettes cause cancer and heart disease. Which sucks. But Drinking causes violence (how many of us have encountered someone with 'beer muscles' at one point or another?), vandalism, loss of inhibition, hell, basically a complete shut down of the higher brain functions. People don't get pregnant at 15 because they were smoking, but they do because they are drinking. They don't get into a car and kill four innocent people on the road because they had a smoke, but if they were drinking, well, I'm sure you get the drift...


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## hardheadjarhead (May 3, 2005)

*Tulisan in bold:

Young adult have it rougher and rougher each year.*

How so?  Compared to what era?  Using what standard of measure insofar as things being "tough?"  I'm not picking on you, Paul, but I've heard this before.  A good friend of mine, parroting the spirit of your statement, once said "teens have so many choices they have to make today" without ever qualifying the remark.  My response to her is "what choices?"  I'd further ask her if choice is such a bad thing.

In 1957 teen pregnancy was far higher than today and it wasn't unusual to find a teenager married.  There was little or no support structure for an unwed mother in her teens (or any age, for that matter).  As for choices, they did indeed have fewer, as my friend suggested, but that isn't necessarily a good thing.  Teens didn't have access to birth control, any form of sex education regarding STD transmission, or easy access to condoms (much less support for their use).  The rate of syphillis was at a record high and held that dubious record until the late 1980's.  

Do they really have it all that bad today?  More than ever they've been recognized as a market for business...so they wield a significant level of economic clout.  Go to the mall this weekend for confirmation of this and note how many clothing and music stores cater to an older age group (you'll find few) versus those that cater strictly to teenagers.  Teens typically are better educated than those youngsters of fifty years ago, stand to make more money, and benefit from our increasing (if slightly retarded at the moment--but I'm an optimist) progressive social change.  Is it so rough to have to struggle with today's obesity versus, say, the starvation they might encounter in past times?  As I'm oft seen to write, the reverse could be worse.  Contrast poverty rates from thirty years ago to today, or teen homicide rates from the 70's with those today.  Go yet further back.  Teens (and preadolescents) worked long hours for little pay in unsafe jobs in the 19th century.  It was that or die.  In the 18th century they often were indentured servants who could be, and often were, physically and sexually abused by their masters.

True, today we see children struggling with a growing pharmacopia of  illicit drugs.  A hundred years ago they did as well, though legal restrictions were just then coming in vogue.  Two hundred years ago the rate of consumption of alcohol was four times higher than today...leading one Englishman to quip that Americans were worse drunks than the Irish.  Teens often drank as well, helping to drive home the continental notion that we were indeed an alcoholic republic.  

There likely will always be a tendency for mankind to look for some sort of palliative for the human condition...and rebellious teen angst will not be denied participation in this pursuit, for all the ills it might present.


So I ask, and offer this to anyone, when was it better?  


*
If we expect our 18 year olds to act like adults and be responsable like adults, then they need to have the same privliges as well.*

Or, as I posited, when they start acting like adults we then give them the rights  of adults.  It is highly unlikely that giving them the legal right to drink at eighteen is going to hasten the maturation of their brains or reduce their risk taking behavior.  Rights demand responsibility, they do not confer them.



Regards.


Steve


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## Dronak (May 3, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> At what point do you think a person could qualify as an "adult"?



Well, I see the basic aspects of being an adult that you support yourself and run your own life.  You're not dependent on someone else for either.  So I'd say the transition happens when you're capable of being financially independent, can get a decent job to support yourself, and are mature and responsible enough to make your own decisions and face any consequences that result from them.

As you noted, the law puts different age limits on different factors.  While they don't always make sense, I can't exactly disagree with all of them them.  I think they're doing the best they can to set those sort of maturity limits.  You can drive a car at a certain age, vote for your government representatives at another age, drink alcohol at yet another age, probably because experience has indicate that these ages are an average where most people are able to handle those decisions and consequences.  *shrug*


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## TigerWoman (May 3, 2005)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Me too.  And I would have young knees too!  Why can't we start out smart, mature, young, so we can enjoy life to the max??  TW




Whoever dinged me 10 pts. for this comment and didn't sign his name, isn't apparently "there" yet.  TW


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## MA-Caver (May 3, 2005)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Whoever dinged me 10 pts. for this comment and didn't sign his name, isn't apparently "there" yet.  TW


That's weird... makes me want to say "por que?"


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## Corporal Hicks (May 3, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> The drinking age in Australia is 18, and we have something of an epidemic of under-age binge drinking. Which is to say, underage people aren't just drinking, but drinking heavily at every opportunity.
> 
> By comparison, I believe the USA has, per capita, a much smaller problem with underage binge drinking, perhaps because of its higher age limit on drinking.


Sorry Adept, I'm not sure I entirely agree, no offence.

Sure you have binge drinking problems and I think that maybe Britain is almost the worse at this. I'm 17 and I've seen it for the last four years (not a part of it thank God) first hand. I think about it now, 

I dont believe its the higher age limit on drinking that results in less problems. I think that alcohol should be introduced steadily at a younger age. 

If you look a cultures that do this, then you notice (i.e. France) dont have a problem, or have very little problem with binge drinking, far far lower than say, over here. 
Over here its likes as soon as youngesters my age got to about 14/15 and started learning about the effects of alcohol they started bingeing, because its a craz. The've been denied it before hand, its new, it does funny things and its going against society, exactly what somebody my age wanted at the time, they wanted to be an indiviual......just like everybody else. 

Which leads me to my point back to the thread, I personally think, dont mean to offend anybody, that a person becomes an adult when the realise in themselves what reality is and that there is no fantasy world of which their mind creates, when the leave alot of their childhood fantasies behind. To put this into context, being a Bruce Lee fan, two years ago, I wanted to be Bruce Lee, I wanted to 'beat' everybody else and be better than everybody else as thats what my ego seemed to crave.

Now I would say, that I dont want to be Bruce Lee and neither shall I try or think I am. I would like to be the best that I can be, I want to help people in their lives. 
Fantasy of: I wish  
Turned into
Reality of: I am striving to be, and I accept who I am.

Another point stated I believe by tiger woman on the first page. Since I'm talking about myself too much, you could say if I was a kid this would be selfish. Coming out and seeing the world, and accepting it, I personally think makes you an adult.

I talk too much!
Kind Regards

Nick


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## lulflo (May 3, 2005)

I think that if you put it into context, you are a kid until you parents die, because until then, you are always their "kid".  

 I understand what the thread is asking though, I just know that in my circle of friends/acquaintances, that adulthood is just a new group of experiences. ie. marriage, career, children. 

 As far as age goes, I think that is irrelavent subjectively. The laws are put in place as a guideline for justice and such. As has already been menitioned, there are adults in their teens and childish folks in their golden years. It seems to depend on their own values and/or experiences.

  Farang - Larry


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## Kane (May 4, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> In many countries in the world the legal age is either 18, 16, and in some countries like Iran it is 15. Japan I think has the highest legal age, which is 20 years old.





			
				Dan said:
			
		

> Give me a few references for your facts.


 I would have PMed, but I wasn't 100% sure Dan was (Flatlander?) so I'll post it here. For each page scroll down to government and look at "suffrage".

 Japan's legal age is 20;

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja.html

 Iran's legal age is 15;

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html


 Every other nation seems to recognize 18 as the legal age, from the US to India. I guess it is common in every culture for 18 being the legal age.


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## raedyn (May 5, 2005)

(yes, Dan is Flatlander.)


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## Phoenix44 (May 5, 2005)

You become an adult when they no longer sit you at the kiddie table at the Passover Seder.  That means you're about 50.


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## TigerWoman (May 6, 2005)

When you get a notice from the AARP that you can join (think I got mine at 48 though), when you can reduce your car insurance by 10% if you take a senior citizen driving class "55 Alive" and when you are old enough to join the senior citizen center...arrgghh!  Maybe I should join and teach them all TKD!  No, I don't think I will get any takers. And then there is also my daughter who just informed me I am not mature enough...and she has yet to reach her 21st birthday!  That's right, I am still a kid! Guess I will stop supporting her, she is an "adult" now and then she can figure out the pitfalls of being an adult.

Thanks all for your support on my ding...wasn't looking for sympathy pointsl..it was just another from a certain individual who is plaguing me with his immaturity!   TW


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## Marginal (May 6, 2005)

Judging from the fact that my old college was forced to pull a class studying the social effects of pornography because a senator threw a hissy fit... (Of course the media spin was a tad different. It was only mentioned as a pornography class in the headlines.) 

You're at the very least, never considered an adult while attending college. So that puts the age up there for grad students and the like.


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## Kenpodoc (May 6, 2005)

> "There is no such word as maturity. The correct word is 'maturing.'" -- Bruce Lee


I stole this off of Kenponet but feel it's appropriate.

Jeff


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