# Timing and relaxtion training sparring.



## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

I posted a video of sparring about a year ago i think. My friend wanted me to take it down and that will probably happen again. 
Just me training with my mate who has been boxing around 3-6 months , So has some decent basics but isnt like a really good boxer. But good enough for me to struggle.
Recently left my old school because of some weird reasons lol but Im glad because my current teacher is much better at explaining things and the wing chun is just better. 
The focus for me is to learn to relax and get good timing and observation skills. You will be able to tell when I tense up.






I think there are quite alot of guys here with sparring experience so if you wouldnt mind giving some feedback thatd be cool. Iv completed restarted my wing chun journey and im not really tied down to the idea of one lineages in application, only care about what works. 
Things im finding hard to do in real life is bridging the gap, efficient turning and footwork.


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## drop bear (Jul 29, 2015)

I watched the first ten seconds or so. I will watch the rest in a bit.

Fight more like the boxer.

Seriously I assume there is nothing I the chun that prevents you moving. Then when you move you don't have to reach as far to block or strike. This will make you look like less of a goober and will significantly reduce the amount of space between your hands and your head. Reducing the amount of face punching. 

Otherwise why is the hoodie on?


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## Eric_H (Jul 29, 2015)

Move in. Wing chun bridges, not stands out there at long range. You're playing into any outboxing style's strength. If you're not comfortable to move in, you shouldn't be sparring yet.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

Eric_H said:


> Move in. Wing chun bridges, not stands out there at long range. You're playing into any outboxing style's strength. If you're not comfortable to move in, you shouldn't be sparring yet.


Well I am still learning and tbh this video was actually made for a guy in Hong Kong to show his sifu what the type of hook im sparring against.
The bridging stuff I have learnt from my previous sifu doesn't work when I try to apply it, no matter how much I practiced it. I don't know if you actually have successfully bridged the gap in a fight or sparring yourself, but for me its a bit difficult. Big risk of running into a quick tight hook, people don't just let you stick to there arms you know. I am comfortable, well not entirely but that is the point of sparring... and I am just being smart because I know I don't have the skill to bridge without getting smacked in the face so I wait until the right time when I notice an opening. This is just 1 min of our usual 10 - 30 min session. hopefully i can take some more soon. But thanks for your input. I was looking for a bit more technical advice. I didn't put it up to show off, I wanted advice.


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## drop bear (Jul 29, 2015)

Ok. You consistently go backwards when you block. Especially when he is throwing one off jabs. Which will make it hard for you to enter as you have to cover more ground than you really need to. That is when I would move forward and counter. 

Move forwards. Make an angle then go back.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Ok. You consistently go backwards when you block. Especially when he is throwing one off jabs. Which will make it hard for you to enter as you have to cover more ground than you really need to. That is when I would move forward and counter.
> 
> Move forwards. Make an angle then go back.


Cool so you reckon when he does them one off jabs I should move in with bridging hand ? Also im wearing a hoodie cause its really cold even though it looks sunny. 
I have to say I wasted alot of time at my old school, mainly doing reaction drills and not any structure stuff so im still fixing my structure If i don't go back when the jab hits my hand i get slightly put off balance, but when I do a quick step back it makes it much easier for me to dissipate the force and not get hit by the next 1-3 which are coming forward. Thanks for your point of view.


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## Mephisto (Jul 29, 2015)

From a boxing perspective and years of other martial arts; the first thing you need is proper gear, head gear, mouth guard, and some type of gloves. You can still keep light contact but you need to be able to hit each other in the head safely. What I see here and what I see a lot in this kind of no gear sparring is a game of trying to hit the guy while not actually hitting him, it's counter productive. If it's friendly sparring both parties lose out because neither is in any danger of getting hit. For new guys that aren't sure how much contact to use I recommend putting on your gear and having the guy start light and give you a few LIGHT shots, you can tell him more or less power from there, he's sees what it's like to touch the head and sees you can take it, but if they're not shy I wouldnt worry about it. It shouldn't be a problem if you're training with a boxer he should be used to it.

From a technical standpoint, you're checking punches that aren't even in range. You keep moving back and he's punching from out of range, if you kept your guard tight there would be nothing to block. Know your range and only block what will actually hit you, you're reaching and you might feel like you're blocking but you're not. A big reason for this in your video is likely a lack of intent to make contact, I'd wager if he was trying to hit you he could blow through most of those traps/blocks you were doing. Also footwork, you're to still, you need to range in and out and angle off line, you're a sitting duck. 

Props for sharing your video, keep working, don't get discouraged, and get done damn sparring gear!


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## yak sao (Jul 29, 2015)

Don't chase his hands and don't stay at his range, otherwise he will dominate.

You need to move in and occupy his space. Get some proper safety equipment (headgear, gloves)  and start working on this.
If he is allowed to stay balanced, then you will eat his follow up technique, whether it's a hook, right cross or whatever. If you move in, or more properly stated,_ explode in_, putting your weight into your strikes then he will be rocked back on his heels and his follow up will be of little significance.
You don't have to hit hard, but you do need to move in with authority.
The safety gear makes this easier because you are less concerned about accidently hurting him.


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## Danny T (Jul 29, 2015)

Angle; move forward.
Stop playing defense; especially in the boxer range. Attack, because you are play a defensive game out side of your attacking range he can simply keep you busy defending punches. ATTACK!!


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

Cheers for the feedback. Will take it all into consideration . I had some  headgear I stopped using it cause of some headaches I used to get after training, so id rather keep my wits about me. also noticed the protective cage on them made the range semi unrealistic because you are getting hit about 5 cm in front of your face which in a fight makes a lot of difference if that makes sense. Would be good if someone could get a video of them sparring to show what you guys mean with bridging and crashing in so there is a good example for me to see that isnt the dudes student co-operating with him.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

Too defensive. Every time he slaps your lead hand, hit him with it and enter. Enter off that timing. This is what I do. I also don't keep my guard so far out like that anymore. I had an opponent  with longer reach slap my lead down and hit me with the cross. So I found bringing my guard in closer prevents this and brings him in closer if he tries that. Plus in weapon training it's a target.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

I'm the smaller guy. Video was sent to me in 3d format so pick a side and watch.


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## yak sao (Jul 29, 2015)

As for ,the head gear being unrealustic for range, use palm strikes. This will cancel out the jutting out of the face cage.


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## Mephisto (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Cheers for the feedback. Will take it all into consideration . I had some  headgear I stopped using it cause of some headaches I used to get after training, so id rather keep my wits about me. also noticed the protective cage on them made the range semi unrealistic because you are getting hit about 5 cm in front of your face which in a fight makes a lot of difference if that makes sense. Would be good if someone could get a video of them sparring to show what you guys mean with bridging and crashing in so there is a good example for me to see that isnt the dudes student co-operating with him.


You don't have to wear head gear but it prevents your face from getting cut and nose from getting broken or crunched too bad (depending on the style). Head gear with a face cage is not necessary, just get a good quality boxing head gear that covers the cheeks, if you're both wearing boxing gloves the cheek cushioning will protect your nose somewhat. Even with the face cage you're better off compared to what we see in the video, if no one is getting hit you're not committing for one reason or another. Put on the head gear with face cage and see how many shots make contact. Or take off the face cage, if you're getting head aches try a different head geAr or minimize the time you spend in the gear. Fight in 1-3min rounds and take off the gear between rounds, you might just be milling about too long in head gear. I know some guys who get head aches too, they gear up and wait for their turn in the ring or chat and hang around in it, you only need it while you're fighting 15 mins tops if you're even able to go that many rounds.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> I posted a video of sparring about a year ago i think. My friend wanted me to take it down and that will probably happen again.
> Just me training with my mate who has been boxing around 3-6 months , So has some decent basics but isnt like a really good boxer. But good enough for me to struggle.
> Recently left my old school because of some weird reasons lol but Im glad because my current teacher is much better at explaining things and the wing chun is just better.
> The focus for me is to learn to relax and get good timing and observation skills. You will be able to tell when I tense up.
> ...


First of all, when you bring your elbow up high and try to do a downward block, you can really hurt yourself. If you don't believe me have that guy throw some real punches at that block. As for the rest, you need to try to aggressively try to get to his outside, or at least have some plan.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Well I am still learning and tbh this video was actually made for a guy in Hong Kong to show his sifu what the type of hook im sparring against.
> The bridging stuff I have learnt from my previous sifu doesn't work when I try to apply it, no matter how much I practiced it. I don't know if you actually have successfully bridged the gap in a fight or sparring yourself, but for me its a bit difficult. Big risk of running into a quick tight hook, people don't just let you stick to there arms you know. I am comfortable, well not entirely but that is the point of sparring... and I am just being smart because I know I don't have the skill to bridge without getting smacked in the face so I wait until the right time when I notice an opening. This is just 1 min of our usual 10 - 30 min session. hopefully i can take some more soon. But thanks for your input. I was looking for a bit more technical advice. I didn't put it up to show off, I wanted advice.


Give them something to worry about on the way in, Hit 'em when you are in, and give them something to worry about on the way out.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

He is punching, I think you guys think there is no power at all. He is trying to hit me and there is power. If i miss i get hooked in the face which has happened multiple times, when bridging. Seriously it is a lot harder then you realise. I learnt how to crash in with jum, pak etc but it doesnt work when they are skilled, Some people I can just straight crash in and sensory overwhelm them, boxer tends to use his footwork to get out of it, easy to do a back step with a slight turn with a nasty tight hook which imo is the highest risk of getting hit when bridging. This video is quite short but I usually wait until I see an opening and quickly bridge. I never had a proper opening where I wouldnt get hit.
For some background : did wing chun for around 9 years while growing up,turns out most of what I learnt was crap, restarted this year. So i have to erase a ton of bad habits aswell. Currently learning Chu shong tin but really been focusing on trying to learn Nim tao and keeping tai going etc on while fighting. But my fighting style does not represent chu shong tin lineage at all, only just started and still doing basic structure tests. Really appreciate all the feedback though ! I wish more people would post videos of wing chun vs whatever , Im prob going to end up been a mma guy with wing chun as my base though.
Cheers to the guy that posted the vid, But it seems the person you are vsing is doing wing chun aswell ? or isnt punching you at all ? The stuff you are doing is the exact stuff I previously tried with the dude im vsing on my vid and I could never get it to work simple because of his flurries and footwork. Im assuming everyone who has replied has sparring experience and has used what theyv told me to do in real sparring/fights not just in class or theory. Otherwise its pointless because it isnt tested. please excuse my writing, not the greatest :/ . Cheers


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> He is punching, I think you guys think there is no power at all. He is trying to hit me and there is power. If i miss i get hooked in the face which has happened multiple times, when bridging. Seriously it is a lot harder then you realise. I learnt how to crash in with jum, pak etc but it doesnt work when they are skilled, Some people I can just straight crash in and sensory overwhelm them, boxer tends to use his footwork to get out of it, easy to do a back step with a slight turn with a nasty tight hook which imo is the highest risk of getting hit when bridging. This video is quite short but I usually wait until I see an opening and quickly bridge. I never had a proper opening where I wouldnt get hit.
> For some background : did wing chun for around 9 years while growing up,turns out most of what I learnt was crap, restarted this year. So i have to erase a ton of bad habits aswell. Currently learning Chu shong tin but really been focusing on trying to learn Nim tao and keeping tai going etc on while fighting. But my fighting style does not represent chu shong tin lineage at all, only just started and still doing basic structure tests. Really appreciate all the feedback though ! I wish more people would post videos of wing chun vs whatever , Im prob going to end up been a mma guy with wing chun as my base though.
> Cheers to the guy that posted the vid, But it seems the person you are vsing is doing wing chun aswell ? or isnt punching you at all ? The stuff you are doing is the exact stuff I previously tried with the dude im vsing on my vid and I could never get it to work simple because of his flurries and footwork. Im assuming everyone who has replied has sparring experience and has used what theyv told me to do in real sparring/fights not just in class or theory. Otherwise its pointless because it isnt tested. please excuse my writing, not the greatest :/ . Cheers


The person I'm sparring does boxing and eskrima. He is trying to hit me I eat a few shots. My timing is better so I hit before he hits me. Jeet kun do. Lol. I choose to box a boxer. That was 4 years ago. Now I prefer to grapple more.  Vid is just to show exactly what I said to do in my post. I figured I'd use imagery to help. Did it? If not I'll take it down. Good wing Chun shuts down the opponent. So if you thought he wasn't trying to hit me. I'll take as a compliment.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> The person I'm sparring does boxing and eskrima. He is trying to hit me I eat a few shots. My timing is better so I hit before he hits me. Jeet kun do. Lol. I choose to box a boxer. That was 4 years ago. Now I prefer to grapple more.  Vid is just to show exactly what I said to do in my post. I figured I'd use imagery to help. Did it? If not I'll take it down. Good wing Chun shuts down the opponent. So if you thought he wasn't trying to hit me. I'll take as a compliment.



Oh true, well then good job. Yea the bridging was fine, just kind of hard to see. But yea the imagery helps and you actually put a vid of you sparring doing what you say. 
Thats what im working on is getting good timing and been able to stay relaxed. If you cant relax then its quite hard to do anything really. Hope my reply didnt come across as angry or anything. 
I feel like wing chun can actually go really well with bjj/ grappling arts. Im just about to get into bjj and from the few lessons iv had i can see where bits and pieces can fit.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

Not many people sack up and use there WC and post vids. So I give you props. I have more vids where you can see him the " boxer" teeing off on people. I just don't have anything to prove. I just thought I'd throw everybody a bone


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

I think its good for everyone to post some vids of training, Keeps it alive and real. Bjj guys are constantly sparring and evolving but then all the wing chun stuff is videos of Sifus wasting there students in chi sao or in fighting " scenarios" .  Its quite nerve racking at first to spar, but if you leave your ego behind and just focus on improving then its all gravy.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

Here's the guy I was sparring vid. I'm in his highlight reel. In my defense I tripped lol. I stepped in a hole. We are part of the same organization. DTE 
Oh he's 6.4" and 270lbs. I'm 5.11" 190lbs


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## marques (Jul 29, 2015)

drop bear said:


> reduce the amount of space between your hands and your head


Even top professional do that 'mistake', but it was my first though.

Your partner, with more a few training months, will take advantage of your desorientation and slowness (due to long movements).
And you cannot counter effectively. Your range is already put in the defence.
But it is just my opinion based on my experience. After that, everything is possible....

I would spar slower, specially for relax, timing and observation training. And put more footwork.

I think it is great to film ourselves. I have no idea about my weaknesses or what I look like till see myself in movie. And I didn't do it enough...


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Oh true, well then good job. Yea the bridging was fine, just kind of hard to see. But yea the imagery helps and you actually put a vid of you sparring doing what you say.
> Thats what im working on is getting good timing and been able to stay relaxed. If you cant relax then its quite hard to do anything really. Hope my reply didnt come across as angry or anything.
> I feel like wing chun can actually go really well with bjj/ grappling arts. Im just about to get into bjj and from the few lessons iv had i can see where bits and pieces can fit.


No you didn't, it's all good. I had bunch of videos on youtube. I took them down cause keyboard warriors were getting annoying. In the 4 years since. My WC has changed and will continue too. I really enjoy choking out people now while standing.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> No you didn't, it's all good. I had bunch of videos on youtube. I took them down cause keyboard warriors were getting annoying. In the 4 years since. My WC has changed and will continue too. I really enjoy choking out people now while standing.


Im planning on taking some more over time, Aslong as my sparring partners allows it. Might have to take this down if he isnt comfortable with been on the net.
But my style isnt strict wing chun, Its my first love of martial arts but I can see why bruce lee made jkd. Me personally, I dont like been restricted to having to do this or that, I just like to flow and react and wait for an opening. But my bridging obviously needs a lot of work. This video i tried to be as strict wc as I could. So please understand my personal expression of wing chun techniques may be different but it works for me, though I still apreciate and want feedback/advice. I wish more people would make videos and discuss, instead of hypothetical situations.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> I think its good for everyone to post some vids of training, Keeps it alive and real. Bjj guys are constantly sparring and evolving but then all the wing chun stuff is videos of Sifus wasting there students in chi sao or in fighting " scenarios" .  Its quite nerve racking at first to spar, but if you leave your ego behind and just focus on improving then its all gravy.


That ain't going to happen. Mainly cause Plus size Sifu's don't spar. I was out of breath within a minute or so. I'm in fair shape. The other reason is most have nothing to prove and don't want to bare the scrutiny. Or like me I don't want to piss anybody off or make anyone look bad. I was hesitant to post a vid for that reason. The guy in the vid is my friend. So I didn't want to disrespect. But since I'm in his highlight reel. I figured what the heck. That's why I posted his video. It's so easy to make yourself look better in videos by posting one side of the story. There are times he worked me. I learned from those times. I watched the videos and learned from my mistakes


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## drop bear (Jul 29, 2015)

marques said:


> Even top professional do that 'mistake', but it was my first though.
> 
> Your partner, with more a few training months, will take advantage of your desorientation and slowness (due to long movements).
> And you cannot counter effectively. Your range is already put in the defence.
> ...



Yeah I reach when I punch which opens me up. Where I should move and punch more cleanly. It is one of the Things I am working on.

Of course I cover more than I parry so I don't fall into the trap of chasing hands as much.

Op should put some gloves on so the whole thing is a bit less flinchy. Then he can eat punches while looking for counters. Which is how you learn to counter punch unfortunately.


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## Jake104 (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Im planning on taking some more over time, Aslong as my sparring partners allows it. Might have to take this down if he isnt comfortable with been on the net.
> But my style isnt strict wing chun, Its my first love of martial arts but I can see why bruce lee made jkd. Me personally, I dont like been restricted to having to do this or that, I just like to flow and react and wait for an opening. But my bridging obviously needs a lot of work. This video i tried to be as strict wc as I could. So please understand my personal expression of wing chun techniques may be different but it works for me, though I still apreciate and want feedback/advice. I wish more people would make videos and discuss, instead of hypothetical situations.


I understand completely. But remember one thing , WC is not a set routine of techniques. It's a principle based art. So as long as the principles are maintained it may look different than someone else's in combat or in sparring.  This is where I agree with Alan Orrs approach. Not the Snake oil/ engine stuff. At the end of the day I do WC MMA -My Martial Art. . Brought to me by past and present teachers, and hard work.


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Yeah I reach when I punch which opens me up. Where I should move and punch more cleanly. It is one of the Things I am working on.
> 
> Of course I cover more than I parry so I don't fall into the trap of chasing hands as much.
> 
> Op should put some gloves on so the whole thing is a bit less flinchy. Then he can eat punches while looking for counters. Which is how you learn to counter punch unfortunately.



I somehow missed the reply you qouted. Yes I agree we should, I need to buy some new gloves. Currently only have the big blue ones. So need to get some fingerless gloves. We both been punched in the face while sparring like that and it hurts quite a bit. one time when i tried bridging he just side stepped and hooked me in the nose, another time i pak and instantly made the pak a punch as he came in and collided into it. Hopefully can get some good exchanges on some more videos. But yea you cant really tell what you are 100% doing unless you see yourself on video, What it feels to what you see is quite different. Since he is just boxing we havent been doing any kicks. 
One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!


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## dudewingchun (Jul 29, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> I understand completely. But remember one thing , WC is not a set routine of techniques. It's a principle based art. So as long as the principles are maintained it may look different than someone else's in combat or in sparring.  This is where I agree with Alan Orrs approach. Not the Snake oil/ engine stuff. At the end of the day I do WC MMA -My Martial Art.


I also quite like alan orrs stuff. I better give credit . My main influences as of right now are : my old Sifu who claimed Ip ching but is mostly lo man kam with bits of ip ching and other random lineages that only quite works for the teacher , spent the majority of my training there. Now i just started Chu shong tin with a teacher just in his garage which is actually a nice change of environment and just better wc. I spend alot of sparetime now researching dif lineages. Larry saccoia and alan orr are big influences right now for me. 
and thats exactly how I consider my Wc !


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!



You can't. If you're sparring full contact and striking the head, you will absolutely have some degree of brain trauma. Exactly how much is unpredictable. As is how much brain damage you're willing to accept.
Personally, I don't spar full contact. Heavy, yes, but not full.


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## drop bear (Jul 29, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> I somehow missed the reply you qouted. Yes I agree we should, I need to buy some new gloves. Currently only have the big blue ones. So need to get some fingerless gloves. We both been punched in the face while sparring like that and it hurts quite a bit. one time when i tried bridging he just side stepped and hooked me in the nose, another time i pak and instantly made the pak a punch as he came in and collided into it. Hopefully can get some good exchanges on some more videos. But yea you cant really tell what you are 100% doing unless you see yourself on video, What it feels to what you see is quite different. Since he is just boxing we havent been doing any kicks.
> One thing im trying to figure out is how to do proper full contact sparring without getting repeated brain trauma. So many things to think about and train. Got a lifetime of training to do, lucky im only 21!



Don't do it every day and stop when someone gets concussed. Personally I don't think you hit hard enough to worry about it at the moment.

You can chun with boxing gloves. But otherwise mma gloves come in shoot boxing and sparring extra padded versions.


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## paitingman (Jul 29, 2015)

imho you just need to exhibit more pressure. 

You will find the holes and the gaps more if you are giving him pressure.  

and not just with your hands/body/structure. Giving threatening pressure is also important. Make him feel threatened not only with your physical pressure but your posture and distance/footwork.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 30, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Well I am still learning and tbh this video was actually made for a guy in Hong Kong to show his sifu what the type of hook im sparring against.
> The bridging stuff I have learnt from my previous sifu doesn't work when I try to apply it, no matter how much I practiced it. I don't know if you actually have successfully bridged the gap in a fight or sparring yourself, but for me its a bit difficult. Big risk of running into a quick tight hook, people don't just let you stick to there arms you know. I am comfortable, well not entirely but that is the point of sparring... and I am just being smart because I know I don't have the skill to bridge without getting smacked in the face so I wait until the right time when I notice an opening. This is just 1 min of our usual 10 - 30 min session. hopefully i can take some more soon. But thanks for your input. I was looking for a bit more technical advice. I didn't put it up to show off, I wanted advice.





dudewingchun said:


> If i miss i get hooked in the face which has happened multiple times, when bridging. Seriously it is a lot harder then you realise. I learnt how to crash in with jum, pak etc but it doesnt work when they are skilled, Some people I can just straight crash in and sensory overwhelm them, boxer tends to use his footwork to get out of it, easy to do a back step with a slight turn with a nasty tight hook which imo is the highest risk of getting hit when bridging. This video is quite short but I usually wait until I see an opening and quickly bridge. I never had a proper opening where I wouldnt get hit.



Unfortunately, there is no way to get good at aggressively closing the gap without lots of experience in just going for it and getting hit along the way. (Eventually you learn to get hit less and less.) It helps if you have some padding and a training partner who is skilled enough to expose your weaknesses, but controlled enough to not take your head off.

Some more things that might help:

Right now, both of you are mostly punching from out of range. (Possibly out of fear of being hit or hitting your partner.) This means that when you try to close the gap, you start from out of reach and then have to pass through the boxers entire ideal punching range to get to your range. This gives him lots of time to land his own shots and/or sidestep.  If you encourage your sparring partner to throw his punches so that they actually would hit you instead of coming up 12-16 inches short, then you'll find it a* lot* easier to penetrate through to your ideal close range.

If you do decide you want to charge from out of range, then you have to be really fast and fully committed. The moment you hesitate or slow down, your opponent is going to back off or angle out and counter-attack.

Either way, do not start reaching with your hands prematurely. Let your feet carry you right up into your opponent's face. (And then keep pressing forward, because he will be trying to create space.) Once you're crowding him, then let your hands fly.

Caveat - I'm not a WC practitioner, my background is more BJJ and Muay Thai. However I've done plenty of sparring where I focus on closing the gap against boxers/kickboxers in order to work my clinch and/or close range striking. (I've also had a little bit of exposure to WC and will sometimes sneak in the bits I know into sparring when it seems appropriate.)


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## dudewingchun (Jul 31, 2015)

Cheers everyone for the advice. I had to take the vid down because my mate got mad at me.


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## LFJ (Jul 31, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> He is punching, I think you guys think there is no power at all. He is trying to hit me and there is power.



I caught a glimpse of the video before it was taken down, but no, he wasn't trying to hit you. He had power in his punches, but they were all thrown out of range at your hands. You could have just stood there doing nothing, and nothing would have happened. He would just be punching the air about a foot or two in front of you.

My observation of your part would be that you were too stationary at a range where a boxer can throw power shots. That's exactly where you don't want to be against a boxer. Compared to the boxer, you had no footwork and were looking for the right timing to enter straight up the middle. Again, bad strategy against a boxer, as you noticed from experience it's easy for them to circle out and hook you, or just eat you alive as you're standing in the pocket.

So, in my opinion, you need some footwork and to try to find better angles of attack to cut him off and take up space. Otherwise, no matter when you try to enter, you're still standing right in front of the boxer who has both hands ready to unload, while you're also not very mobile. Then it'll just be pure luck if you don't get knocked out.


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## Jake104 (Jul 31, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Cheers everyone for the advice. I had to take the vid down because my mate got mad at me.


At least you're open to constructive criticism. You didn't get defensive like some people do when they post videos. That says a lot. Just keep training and don't give up.

If you're trying to make Wing Chun work, I'd suggest timing, ranges and entry drilling then eventually working up to sparring. Or you could just go at it with heavy gloves and you'll learn timing and range. Problem with that is you may end up abandoning key WC principles for the sake of those things. That's the reasoning IMO why in WC generally sparring comes later if at all. Although, learning to take a hit is pretty important. Good luck!


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## Jake104 (Jul 31, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You can chun with boxing gloves. But otherwise mma gloves come in shoot boxing and sparring extra padded versions


I have found boxing gloves work very well. I actually prefer over standard MMA gloves with full head gear. They allow you to get used to being hit without clumsy headgear that I always felt obstructed my vision.. Plus from a WC point of view, it forces me to not rely on grabbing or fancy hand techniques. I can still under-over hook.


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## marques (Aug 1, 2015)

Jake104 said:


> Plus from a WC point of view, it forces me to not rely on grabbing or fancy hand techniques.


To grab and joint locks are not completely fancy. They just require more technique (than striking) in the right opportunity. Even to push is easier with small gloves (that I prefer, as you can see.  )


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 1, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Big risk of running into a quick tight hook...


You can try to restrict your opponent's punching ability by not giving him the space that he needs. If you can move your hands as close to your opponent's hands as possible, you can restrict his arms mobility. Grabbing on his wrists if you can. The moment that you release your grip is the moment that you attack.


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## Argus (Aug 1, 2015)

dudewingchun said:


> Well I am still learning and tbh this video was actually made for a guy in Hong Kong to show his sifu what the type of hook im sparring against.
> The bridging stuff I have learnt from my previous sifu doesn't work when I try to apply it, no matter how much I practiced it. I don't know if you actually have successfully bridged the gap in a fight or sparring yourself, but for me its a bit difficult. Big risk of running into a quick tight hook, people don't just let you stick to there arms you know. I am comfortable, well not entirely but that is the point of sparring... and I am just being smart because I know I don't have the skill to bridge without getting smacked in the face so I wait until the right time when I notice an opening. This is just 1 min of our usual 10 - 30 min session. hopefully i can take some more soon. But thanks for your input. I was looking for a bit more technical advice. I didn't put it up to show off, I wanted advice.



I'm certainly not the most experienced WC practitioner here, nor do I have a lot of sparring experience. But I have just enough to know what works for me.

I think that you might be chasing the hands too much. Don't think about "bridging." Bridging is something that happens, not something that you make happen. If you go in with the idea that you're going to bridge with some technique on his arms, you're likely to find his hands no longer there and hitting you elsewhere when you enter. The key is to always chase the man, not his hands. When he punches, just punch back on a better line, and if contact is made, that is where your chisau may come into play. Chisau teaches us to go around or remove obstructions with the intent of chasing center -- hitting the target. That should be your only goal. 

At least, that mindset works for me. I find that I always do much better when I focus on chasing center and don't worry about the other person's hands. The techniques and attributes that you develop in chisau practice should come out automatically when you need them.

Also, keep in mind that if you don't practice entering and closing the distance, you won't be able to. So staying out of range and using Wing Chun isn't a smart move -- it's just depriving yourself of developing an important skill and learning to apply your Wing Chun effectively.


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