# Sacha Baron Cohen Self-defense Lessons



## lansao (Aug 23, 2018)

You’ve probably seen his coverage and may even have watched his videos.

Sacha Baron Cohen has been disguising himself as Israeli ex-military and offering fake self defense to political figures.

So far he’s gotten his students to scream the n-word, chase him with their bare butts, bite onto his strap-on sex toy, and impersonate a Chinese person to fit into the Middle East while using an extended phone camera to look up peoples’ burkas.

Political position aside, this tells me that students have the potential to and are often willing to follow our instruction blindly, without asking why.

What steps can we as a martial arts community take to shift this behavior in students?


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## Martial D (Aug 23, 2018)

Oh boy this is gonna heat up quick.

*Popcorn*


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## lansao (Aug 23, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Oh boy this is gonna heat up quick.
> 
> *Popcorn*



Ah, don’t mean to start anything. But it’s objectively pretty nuts that these videos were possible.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 23, 2018)

SBC has an amazing gift, though. Whether he uses it for good or evil, not many people could pull of what he does.

But, your question is a good one. For me, small classes. I know all of my students and I push them to question and test.


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## Hanzou (Aug 23, 2018)

SBC's wife is hot.

Lucky bastard.


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## lansao (Aug 23, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> SBC has an amazing gift, though. Whether he uses it for good or evil, not many people could pull of what he does.
> 
> But, your question is a good one. For me, small classes. I know all of my students and I push them to question and test.


Makes me wonder if there's a fake lesson we can teach on our own to see who goes along and who calls BS.


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## Martial D (Aug 23, 2018)

lansao said:


> Ah, don’t mean to start anything. But it’s objectively pretty nuts that these videos were possible.


It highlights something I have been saying since day 1. 

I'm am a big fan of being able to defend yourself, situational awareness, and de-escalation.

I'm not a fan of the 'self defense' industry.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 23, 2018)

lansao said:


> Makes me wonder if there's a fake lesson we can teach on our own to see who goes along and who calls BS.



That's a really interesting idea. I've definitely messed with a class, but I've never taught them anything deliberately stupid. It would be an interesting experiment.


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## Anarax (Aug 23, 2018)

lansao said:


> You’ve probably seen his coverage and may even have watched his videos.
> 
> Sacha Baron Cohen has been disguising himself as Israeli ex-military and offering fake self defense to political figures.
> 
> ...



"Three easy steps to neutralize any attacker"
"Guaranteed fight ending techniques"  
"Use your *** to repel terrorists"
"Simple gun disarms"
"REAL XTREME STREET SELF-DEFENSE"
"No touch knockouts"
"Use a selfie stick to find terrorists" 
5 Hour SD instructor certificates  

I fail to see how one is more absurd than the others.


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## lansao (Aug 23, 2018)

Anarax said:


> "Three easy steps to neutralize any attacker"
> "Guaranteed fight ending techniques"
> "Use your *** to repel terrorists"
> "Simple gun disarms"
> ...



The absurdity is one thing, but the willingness of students/consumers to buy in to them is incredible.


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## Headhunter (Aug 24, 2018)

Thing is some people don't care. They're just there to make friends and be active, like I saw a video the other day about someone who did Krav Maga and it helped with their anxiety and depression I doubt they care if it works or not because Its helping them so much in another way


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## jobo (Aug 24, 2018)

lansao said:


> You’ve probably seen his coverage and may even have watched his videos.
> 
> Sacha Baron Cohen has been disguising himself as Israeli ex-military and offering fake self defense to political figures.
> 
> ...


well there's that, but its a bigger issue, what makes us good citizens, is our training to follow instruction from authority figures, school teachers, policemen our managers,etal, but the,reverse side of that conditioning is that we will also follow instruction from aurthority figures, in this case when they are ludicrous, but also when they are at best ill advised, but also when they were going " evil"

there have been any number of studies on how far you can push, social compliance,based on possession. Of a white,coat or a,security uniform, and the answer is a very long way as sbc shows,


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## LastGasp (Aug 24, 2018)

Can you not just tell your students, and remind them often, to question anything they don't understand?
I have been reading some of Bruce Lee's philosophy, and he always said to question everything. Tell them that such advice is not just words, but that you have to put it into practice?

If you are learning from an experienced instructor, the reply that he then gives is your validation of the technique or skill. If he gives a reply that doesn't satisfy you, or you still don't understand, then you continue to question. It doesn't mean you have to go around breaking rules all the time.

In my mind, it is all too common to see authority figures who abuse their power and instill blind obedience, from whence they can lead people astray. A questioning mind helps to avoid such pitfalls.


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## lansao (Aug 24, 2018)

jobo said:


> well there's that, but its a bigger issue, what makes us good citizens, is our training to follow instruction from authority figures, school teachers, policemen our managers,etal, but the,reverse side of that conditioning is that we will also follow instruction from aurthority figures, in this case when they are ludicrous, but also when they are at best ill advised, but also when they were going " evil"
> 
> there have been any number of studies on how far you can push, social compliance,based on possession. Of a white,coat or a,security uniform, and the answer is a very long way as sbc shows,


Really interesting. Even when one party knows the other doesn't actually have authority like the famous Stanford prison experiment.

There's a fairly well-known scientific principle that addresses this: Argument from authority

If we adopted something like this, would it make teaching more difficult?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 24, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Thing is some people don't care. They're just there to make friends and be active, like I saw a video the other day about someone who did Krav Maga and it helped with their anxiety and depression I doubt they care if it works or not because Its helping them so much in another way


And that's fine. If I'm teaching absolute crap, with no basis in reality, by you're only learning it for enjoyment, sense of community, and to manage your arachnophobia, then the quality of the techniques doesn't much matter. If I advertise, say, or strongly imply that what I teach is based in reality, useful for defense, etc., then there should be some grounding for those claims. There has been (and will continue to be) much debate over what is "valid" grounding for those claims, but I should be able to make some reasonable arguments that what I'm teaching can be employed for the purpose I offer it for. That's not to say that everything taught in a program with such stated aims has to be directly applicable, or even remotely directed to those ends, but much of it should be.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 24, 2018)

To your thought, Alan, I think one thing we can do, as instructors, is look for the behavior in our students, and challenge it. We can watch for them making it too easy to do a technique (falling too soon, not completing attacks, etc.). We can listen for them defending the technique, to make sure their defense makes sense, and isn't "I just don't have the comprehension to make this work yet" (if that's the case, they should be asking questions, including "Does this really work? Show me.").

We have to be willing to NOT always be the expert. We have to reduce our perceived authority some if we want to reduce the cognitive effect it has. One way to do that is to accept input from students with knowledge (from outside training, or just enough time training with us). If a student is an LEO, security officer, bouncer, or whatever (and assuming they aren't into telling grandiose stories), ask them to share specific observations. I might ask a bouncer to share what he looks for to tell him someone is about to get physical, for instance. And if there's new information for me, I make sure they know it. If a student has better-trained kicks than me, I seek their knowledge.

We can also occasionally just ask them to answer the questions. One way to teach them to question things well is to model that. Sometimes when I teach a technique, I just ask the question I wish they would ask: "So, why can't the guy just punch me in the face while I'm doing this?" Then I either get them to help me answer it, or we take the time to explore.


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## Anarax (Aug 24, 2018)

lansao said:


> The absurdity is one thing, but the willingness of students/consumers to buy in to them is incredible.



True, I was referring to the already established BS culture in some SD and Martial Arts schools. The instructors that teach nonsense are either aware of what they teach or actually believe in it.


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## Anarax (Aug 24, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> And that's fine. If I'm teaching absolute crap, with no basis in reality, by you're only learning it for enjoyment, sense of community, and to manage your arachnophobia, then the quality of the techniques doesn't much matter. If I advertise, say, or strongly imply that what I teach is based in reality, useful for defense, etc., then there should be some grounding for those claims. There has been (and will continue to be) much debate over what is "valid" grounding for those claims, but I should be able to make some reasonable arguments that what I'm teaching can be employed for the purpose I offer it for. That's not to say that everything taught in a program with such stated aims has to be directly applicable, or even remotely directed to those ends, but much of it should be.



Good point. When you teach the inexperienced techniques they may develop a false sense of confidence. For example, cardio kickboxing is fun and a great workout. However, that doesn't mean they'll be able to defend themselves in an altercation. People who have an inflated view of their own self defense skills may put themselves in more dangerous situations than they normally would.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 24, 2018)

Anarax said:


> Good point. When you teach the inexperienced techniques they may develop a false sense of confidence. For example, cardio kickboxing is fun and a great workout. However, that doesn't mean they'll be able to defend themselves in an altercation. People who have an inflated view of their own self defense skills may put themselves in more dangerous situations than they normally would.


In the self-defense training world, this is especially true of things like knife defense. It's easy to get over-confident about those, and to simply accept whatever you are told about what can/will/might happen. Nearly everyone has so little actual experience, and so few students will take the time to do any additional research on their own (reviewing attack videos, talking to folks with some experience, etc.).


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## ShortBridge (Aug 24, 2018)

Interesting conversation and all important things to consider based on what we do. I would not want my students blindly following my drills and assuming that they were somehow super-heros and I'm pretty certain that they do not. But, it's something for me to keep an eye on.

I think that the other side of this is worth consideration from a self-defense standpoint as well. Implied authority, at the right time, delivered the right way, could buy you time and space in a dangerous situation. The studies sited (which I read, thanks for posting) could equally inhibit the other party in a conflict as well. I used to test my ability to change the dynamics of situations with my voice, when approached by street people who were probably just begging, not dangerous, but you never know. 

What happens if I say really friendly crazy things like:

Street person: Hey man, have you got a light?
Me: Have you seen the light too? Isn't it beautiful? Where are you going tonight? Have you talked to Phil?

Or

"I need for you to take two steps back! Show me your hands, please. Thank you. Now what is it that you wanted to discuss with me?"

Either could work or backfire, but I found that when someone approaches you, regardless of their intent, they expect and want it to go a certain way. By asserting authority or doing something else to take control of the engagement and redirect it, they usually start working on their exit, which is, I must say, extraordinary self defense. Must be practiced, because it could also make things worse. Fortunately, I teach in a neighborhood that makes this very easy for me and my students to practice, now and again.

Everyone trains for a reason. Most of the people who train with me are interested in personal safety as it pertains to the world they live in, things they experience or fear experiencing on a daily basis. The other actors in these scenarios are also human beings, subject to the same bias, errors in judgement, and traps that the rest of us are. I find that knowing that and contemplating how to use that knowledge is very useful.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 25, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> Interesting conversation and all important things to consider based on what we do. I would not want my students blindly following my drills and assuming that they were somehow super-heros and I'm pretty certain that they do not. But, it's something for me to keep an eye on.
> 
> I think that the other side of this is worth consideration from a self-defense standpoint as well. Implied authority, at the right time, delivered the right way, could buy you time and space in a dangerous situation. The studies sited (which I read, thanks for posting) could equally inhibit the other party in a conflict as well. I used to test my ability to change the dynamics of situations with my voice, when approached by street people who were probably just begging, not dangerous, but you never know.
> 
> ...


The term I learned for the odd, overly friendly thing you did there is "thought pattern interrupt". It's a lot like the feeling you get when you start a conversation with someone, and they respond to an entirely different statement than you made, either mis-hearing you or just ignoring what you said. You stumble a bit. There's a guy in Britain, IIRC, who did a series of shows on hypnosis and manipulation (also did some pickpocketing, I thiink). He tells the story of someone accosting him to rob him, and he replied something like, "The wall outside my house is three and a half feet high." It confused the guy, and he restated his demand. Another non sequitur reply, and the guy left, confused about what had gone wrong. That wouldn't work with a determined, seasoned criminal, I think. But it's probably workable on someone who's nervous or scared.


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