# This is Scary



## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

Please give me any other example of any other President that has people singing praises to him or saying everything good is because of him..
This is where we are headed


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## Sukerkin (Jan 29, 2009)

As someone who dwells in the 'outside', I can't help but think that a lot of this anti-Obama hysteria I'm seeing, as a reaction to some of the pro-Obama sillyness, is not taking account of the fact that an awful lot of people, who are not Republican neo-cons, are just very glad to see the back of what they felt to be a frightening regime.

That means that there will be a period of shudder-making saccharine before the reality sinks in that it's goodbye to the old boss, same as the new boss.  The label on the tin changes; the 'money' in the tin does not.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 29, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> As someone who dwells in the 'outside', I can't help but think that a lot of this anti-Obama hysteria I'm seeing, as a reaction to some of the pro-Obama sillyness, is not taking account of the fact that an awful lot of people, who are not Republican neo-cons, are just very glad to see the back of what they felt to be a frightening regime.
> 
> That means that there will be a period of shudder-making saccharine before the reality sinks in that it's goodbye to the old boss, same as the new boss.  The label on the tin changes; the 'money' in the tin does not.



Pretty much.

Ten days in office, and people are comparing him to Hitler. I think Bush was in for a few months before it got to that. 

At the core of all of this -- whether it's Obamamania on the one side or anti-Obama fanaticism on the other -- it's two halves of the same coin. One group is sitting on their arses singing his praises and waiting for him to solve all their problems. The other is sitting on their arses and hoping he will fail.

Don't hate the playa'. Hate the game.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

Sitting on my *** no, hoping he will fail yes. I did not vote for him and just like the people who did not vote for Bush they hoped for his failure.
But I am just saying we have never seen this kind of activity for any other president. If we have I will eat my hat, I have been wrong before and am not afraid to admit when I am.
But lets look at the similarities between him and some other famous leader. 
1) Obama is all for Gun bans I know I am a gun owner from Illinois.
2) Kids are singing songs TO him, you think these kids know what Obama stands for they are what 10 at the most, this is indoctrination. 
3) Media control and fear of speaking out about him, how many Leno jokes have you heard??? Hell it seems if it is bad just to say you hope he fails.
Yea it is only three but what a big three dont ya think?


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## terryl965 (Jan 29, 2009)

Well we as a nation made the choice for President and as a nation we need to try and back him so we can move forward.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

> Well we as a nation made the choice for President and as a nation we need to try and back him so we can move forward.


 
Even if you don't agree with him??
I will mark that down as #4 if you say yes...


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## MA-Caver (Jan 29, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Well we as a nation made the choice for President and as a nation we need to try and back him so we can move forward.


I was just contemplating this very same thing... but I couldn't believe my ears when I listened to him talk about the 18 or 20 billion dollars that lined the pockets of Wall Street CEO's. 
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=11777388&ch=4226716&src=news
When I was listening to this ... he was saying it was "shameful" well yeah, I agree it sure was/is. But when he was done I couldn't help but ask... THAT'S IT? Tell them that it was bad and wag his finger at them and telling them to "behave"?? So basically they're going to go home with a share of 20 billion dollars in their pocket and a slap on the wrist?? THAT'S IT?? 
I wondered if I would probably be sitting in jail right now if I had been there at that press conference because I would've interrupted the president with just those two words... 
I mean c'mon Mr. President... please tell us that you or at least the government are going to make those guys pay it back or give it back. It's OUR money!! If we borrowed money from them and don't pay it back they put us in jail! 
We elected you, sir because you promised us change. We put our faith in you and put you on that podium and watched you take that oath and we watched with a sense of hope and mild trepidation. We picked you because we figured well all this time those guys have been yo-yoing this country's money/economy and now the last guy (who was a literal blubbering idiot that couldn't put two words together to form a coherent sentence) got us in an ever increasing unpopular war, gave money to people who basically didn't need it and watched them line their pockets and fill their coffers and now these guys whom you just read about have done the same thing... and all you're going to do is say "shame on you" ?? 
Then go on to promise them that they will make more profits later? 

Honestly Mr. President are you no different than the other ones whom we've put in office over the last 50 or so years? Please Mr. President, for god's sake please tell us that these guys are going to be punished. That you're not going to tell us how your hands are tied because you're waiting for congress to make up their minds and then trying to get a bill past the senate and then the house and then this and then that... 

YES, we know that a recovery from such an economic crisis takes time. YES, we know that it will be a long up hill road up ahead but please at least make that light at the end of the tunnel the size of a quarter... not a pinhole. 

Those were just my thoughts after I listened to that "shame on you" commentary. Those guys are going to get away with it. That's what it sounded like to me. They robbed the American people and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and all they're going to get is a slap on the wrist and don't do it again. 

As far as the similarites of fascism that's going on ... sigh... it seems that it's something that can be taken care of later when we're outta this hole we're in.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

> We picked you because we figured well all this time those white guys have been yo-yoing this country's money/economy and now the last guy (who was a literal blubbering idiot that couldn't put two words together to form a coherent sentence)


 
I think voting for someone because they are not a white guy, is just as bad as not voting for someone because he is a black guy...

Lets leave race out of this shall we?


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## MA-Caver (Jan 29, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> I think voting for someone because they are not a white guy, is just as bad as not voting for someone because he is a black guy...
> 
> Lets leave race out of this shall we?


My bad... sorry... edited.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

> As far as the similarites of fascism that's going on ... sigh... it seems that it's something that can be taken care of later when we're outta this hole we're in.


 
The only problem with this is once we lose some/all of our rights it is next to imposable to get them back. I think we need to worry about that first.



> They robbed the American people and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and all they're going to get is a slap on the wrist and don't do it again.


 
Nope he is going to give out more to see if they do it again....


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 29, 2009)

As a general response, I would say, first, "Chill, he's been in office for ten days."



jetboatdeath said:


> Sitting on my *** no, hoping he will fail yes. I did not vote for him and just like the people who did not vote for Bush they hoped for his failure.



You are right. A lot of people were hoping Bush would fail, and fail he did. So how's that working out? I don't the think the USA or the world can afford eight more years of failure.

I was no Bush fan, as many Americans were not. Do you think that the people who opposed President Bush in America were really sitting around thinking to themselves, _I hope this Iraq war and Afghanistan mission get really F'd up with lots and lots of casualties, so we can all gloat over his failure_? 

That would be really sad, wouldn't it?

You know, it is possible to disagree with him, to fight his policies (as is your right) *and* hope that he succeeds, because this won't just be *his* failure. A lot of jobs and hopes are on the line at this moment. Dude, you're an American citizen -- by all means get up and challenge *your* President.




> But I am just saying we have never seen this kind of activity for any other president. If we have I will eat my hat, I have been wrong before and am not afraid to admit when I am.


No need to eat your hat. I'm sure we haven't seen anything quite like this anywhere in the West, but don't count on it lasting. There is a wonderful naivete to the low-maintenance liberalism that is being practiced at the moment. It will dissolve the instant people discover that they might have to sacrifice in order to succeed. For instance, right now in America, there are probably thousands of motorists sporting an "I (heart) Obama" bumper sticker.... on their SUVs, which they drive in the city. Believe me, they'll cool off quick enough.



> But let&#8217;s look at the similarities between him and some other famous leader.
> 
> 1) Obama is all for Gun bans I know I am a gun owner from Illinois.


OK, but he's only going to be able to pry them from your cold, dead hands, so what's the problem? 

On a more serious note, I love how people bring up banning guns when they talk about Hitler instead of, say, exterminating twelve million people, or, I dunno, starting a world war. Comparing Obama (or Bush) to a facist killer is what people do when they've run out of meaningful things to talk about. Unless there's a big oven purchase in the stimulus bill, I don't think that kind of talk is helpful or appropriate.

I would also remind you that Obama has something that Hitler didn't -- the United States Congress. If he launches a major gun bill in Congress during the first hundred days, I'll halfway agree with you in that gun control is a much lower priority than peace and economic recovery.



> 2) Kids are singing songs TO him, you think these kids know what Obama stands for they are what 10 at the most, this is indoctrination.


Indoctrination, yes. At the behest of adults. The adults are exploiting the kids. The state itself has not ordered the children to sing. Regardless of who is in power, school children are constantly being hypnotized with BS because adults are mostly terrified of exposing children to our failures.




> 3)





> Media control and fear of speaking out about him, how many Leno jokes have you heard???


Leno and Letterman are afraid of Obama? Seriously, is that the watermark for public discourse? 

Give it time. The jokes will come.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

> OK, but he's only going to be able to pry them from your cold, dead hands, so what's the problem?


 
I think it it the part about me being dead...



> On a more serious note, I love how people bring up banning guns when they talk about Hitler instead of, say, exterminating twelve million people, or, I dunno, starting a world war.


 
What came first? 

And you know what i am talking about with the media, no I don't hamg public opinion on the rambelings of a talk show host... as some do..


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 29, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> What came first?
> 
> And you know what i am talking about with the media, no I don't hamg public opinion on the rambelings of a talk show host... as some do..



"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didnt speak up because I wasnt a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 29, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> "In Germany, they came first for the Communists*,(The republic)* And I didn&#8217;t speak up because I wasn&#8217;t a Communist;
> 
> And then they came for the trade unionists*(Ford GM*), And I didn&#8217;t speak up because I wasn&#8217;t a trade unionist;
> 
> ...


 
Great post I edited it a little..
WE are losing everything I don't care if you blame Bush,Clinton or Bozo.
The GVT is taking everything... now that the big three are more or less owned by washington (Not US as it is our money) Look at what Obama has already imposed on them no questions asked....

But as you can see if we don't speak up now.. we will soon have no voice..
Is that the point being made by this post?


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## shesulsa (Jan 29, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Great post I edited it a little..
> WE are losing everything I don't care if you blame Bush,Clinton or Bozo.
> The GVT is taking everything... now that the big three are more or less owned by washington (Not US as it is our money) Look at what Obama has already imposed on them no questions asked....
> 
> ...



What? What has Obama imposed on "Them" no questions asked?  Them - the Big Three?  The same Big Three that took taxpayer money and ****ed around with it?  So ... it's okay to take welfare? Something people actually paid into and put it to ... what?  It's okay to end entitlements like SSI and disability and ... what? give it to irresponsible CEOs who ran their own companies into the ground and even in the face of complete utter failure bought luxury jets and went to spas, paid retention bonuses, etcetera?

Please tell us what EVILLE Obama has wrought in his whopping week in office.

You know, I hated Bush. Still do.  Didn't like his daddy either.  But I didn't compare him to Hitler.  

Gawd.

I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth posting on threads like this anymore.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Please tell us what EVILLE Obama has wrought in his whopping week in office.
> 
> You know, I hated Bush. Still do.  Didn't like his daddy either.  But I didn't compare him to Hitler.
> 
> ...



I'm not afraid of Obama or what HE has done.  I'm afraid of his brainwashed followers and what they do, in his name.  I have never seen anyone march in formation in combat fatiges and scream "Bush made me wanna be the next Sherrif!" like in that video.  Or Regan, or Carter, or Nixon, Or Lincoln.  

It's BEYOND ****ing insane the way people are responding to the man.  In fact its downright FRIGHTENING to me.  Not Obama... but his crazed supporters.  I ABSOLUTLEY believe that if Obama got on stage and said (*and I am not saying he would*, I'm just saying somthing horrible and unthinkable) "As Americans we need to kill all white babies born in the months of June thru September" there would be baby execution squads on every corner... and THAT is what scares the **** out of me about Obama-mania.


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2009)

Personally I could care less about the wackos.  I'd rather see President Obama's critics ignoring the Kool-Aid drinkers and paying more attention to the issues at hand.

Example:​
House  passes economic stimulus, prodded by Obama

Why is spending trillions of taxpayer money the only way out of this economic morass?

Does the GOP (or anyone opposed to the spending) have any ideas besides voting "no" on the bills?

President Reagan had a strong, and effective counter in Congress with House Speaker Tip O'Neill.  President Clinton had a strong and effective counter in Congress with House Speaker Newt Gingrich.  Both speakers frequently spoke about what they plan to do, why they plan to do it, and how they plan to get it done.  

Yes, he has only been in office for 10 days, but it has been nearly 3 months since the election.  President Obama has assembled his staff and cabinet.  Who is emerging from the GOP to stand against people such as Rahm Emmanual?  What is the GOP doing besides criticizing the President or left-wing ideals?  What have local leaders or activists been doing other than warning about "teh skerry lib'ruls" ?

I don't want to see President Obama fail.  I'd like to see him succeed so well that I am inspired to vote for him in 4 years.  For that to happen, he needs to be challenged, contested, countered.  I'm not yet seeing how, or if, that is going to happen.


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## Ramirez (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Great post I edited it a little..
> WE are losing everything I don't care if you blame Bush,Clinton or Bozo.
> The GVT is taking everything... now that the big three are more or less owned by washington (Not US as it is our money) Look at what Obama has already imposed on them no questions asked....
> 
> ...




 Well it was the neo-con free market libertarians like Greenspan, Gramm etc, and Clinton was just as responsible as Bush who let loose small government , minimum regulation on the financial, energy sectors that lead to the financial meltdown and the Enron house of cards....so you want more of the same?

  After it is said and done, the gains were privatized (so Fuld, O'Neal, etc. walked off with hundreds of millions while bankrupting their companies) and the losses were socialized which is why you now have big GVT taking over everything.


  Seriously I would let all those financial institutions fail, and financial system naturally correct itself, perhaps if the stock market really fell then the low income could invest in it.  Then strengthen the role of regulators again.


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## Ramirez (Jan 30, 2009)

Jetboat, here is a list of people you should blame before you get around to the president of just two weeks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/26/road-ruin-recession-individuals-economy


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## Hagakure (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Even if you don't agree with him??
> I will mark that down as #4 if you say yes...


 
As with Sukerkin, also someone from the "Outside", surely anything's prefereable to another Dubya type isn't it? I'm neither for or against him (far too jaded with politicians "Mr President" or otherwise), but after 10 days, is it not too early to judge?


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I could care less about the wackos.  I'd rather see President Obama's critics ignoring the Kool-Aid drinkers and paying more attention to the issues at hand.
> 
> I don't want to see President Obama fail.  I'd like to see him succeed so well that I am inspired to vote for him in 4 years.  *For that to happen, he needs to be challenged, contested, countered.  I'm not yet seeing how, or if, that is going to happen.*



But this is exactly what I mean... no one wants to contest the man, its like he holds sway over the masses like a Fakir and a Cobra... even if its unintentional on his part...

Hell... look at some of the posts IN THIS THREAD where people like Suk and Haga (no offense guys) who don't even live here are like "Woo hoo, at least he's not Bush!"  That's all well and good, and like I said, I am not blaming him... but I am frightened by the amount of... "Patriotism?" people have begun showing the MAN as opposed to the Nation.  Jetboat brings up a good point in his original post: Say what you want about Right-wing nutjobs who liked Bush, or what have you... None of them (that I have seen) Sang "Bush Bush Will Save The World" or marched in military fatigues and called out how he is _*personally responsible*_ for giving them a chance.  Nor did I ever see a Giant "R" logo for Regan "C" Logo for Clinton or "B" logo for Bush... But we have the Obama Super Pepsi-O logo.

Say what you want about how new Obama is, and what he is trying to do, that's fine... I've said it before, I don't trust mainstream candidates on either side, but We'll see what Obama does... *I'm* not addressing HIM or HIS actions... I'm talking about how it still scares the **** outta me that _*people*_ react to him the way they do, because its not a "handful of Right Wing Followers of Rush Listeners" but whole movements to the man like he is some kind of God-king. You can't tell me 90% of those kids in that "Hilter Youth Song" video that Jetboat posted had ANY idea what Obama has done in the past 10 days and why that is significant... they are being indoctrinated by SOMEONE... maybe teachers or parents or someone.

Now if you excuse me I need to go have a bowl of Cheeri-Obamas.


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## JBrainard (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Sitting on my *** no, hoping he will fail yes...


 
Given the current state of the US (and the world, for that matter), I think it's kind of masochistic to hope he will fail us. Call me crazy...


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## girlbug2 (Jan 30, 2009)

Relax, everybody. The first year in office is known as the Honeymoon for a reason. This, too shall pass.

Personally, I am cynical that Obama can do half of what he set out to do, but I would love to be proven wrong. Like Carol said, he needs to be_ challenged_ (not worshipped) in order to do his job -- but in a respectful way. Like it or not, he is the president now and I won't be a hypocrite and start to bash him like the Dems bashed Bush when he was in office...and still do...


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## Brian S (Jan 30, 2009)

The higher up we put him on a pedistal, the further he will fall. The problem is, we fall with him.

 I didn't vote for him(or the other guy for that matter), but as a nation we *must* support him.

 He is against what I am for and for what I am against, but still, we must support him. If the president fails,we all fail.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Great post I edited it a little..


I didn't write it, but thanks. The writing, widely attributed to Martin Niemöller, seemed appropriate when you asked the question, "What came first?"

Your edit was, well, interesting. How one takes a piece of prose about passivity in the face of the final solution and translates it into "The GVT is taking everything... now that the big three are more or less owned by washington" is... I'm speechless.




> WE are losing everything I don't care if you blame Bush,Clinton or Bozo.


Brother, I haven't blamed anyone. I do wonder why people people are flipping their lids over a few YouTube videos praising a President.



> But as you can see if we don't speak up now.. we will soon have no voice...


 
That's pretty much always been the case. Silence gives consent, regardless of who is running the goverment. Your thread is predicated on a couple of videos which have provided you with slender means to back a fairly paranoid argument.



> Is that the point being made by this post?


 
I have no idea.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Brian S said:


> The higher up we put him on a pedistal, the further he will fall. The problem is, we fall with him.
> 
> I didn't vote for him(or the other guy for that matter), but as a nation we *must* support him.
> 
> He is against what I am for and for what I am against, but still, we must support him. If the president fails,we all fail.



The thing is, this thread isn't about Supporting Obama, or is he good for us, or should we challenge him... IMO the OP is pointing out a Climate of President *Worship* unseen previously in this country.  The OP did state he wants to see Obama fail, fine... *I* don't specifically want that, but how any of you can look upon the crazy "Obama Worship" occuring and not go "WTF is happening?" or just ignore and dismiss it baffles me completely.   I hope I am wrong, but it scares the hell outta me.


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## Ramirez (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Sitting on my *** no, hoping he will fail yes. I did not vote for him and just like the people who did not vote for Bush they hoped for his failure.
> But I am just saying we have never seen this kind of activity for any other president. If we have I will eat my hat, I have been wrong before and am not afraid to admit when I am.
> But lets look at the similarities between him and some other famous leader.
> 1) Obama is all for Gun bans I know I am a gun owner from Illinois.
> ...



Jetboat, making comparisons of Obama to Hitler is trivializing Hitler,  perhaps you should save that comparison for something more serious.


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## crushing (Jan 30, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Ten days in office, and people are comparing him to Hitler. I think Bush was in for a few months before it got to that.


 
Actually, it was more likely before the election for Bush and it continued through to the end.  State of emergency and martial law were to indefinitely postpone the 2008 election.  When that didn't happen the same were to indefinitely postpone Obama's innauguration.

It's interesting to see the role reversal and hypocrisy from some of the loyal partisans of the two major parties.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 30, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Personally I could care less about the wackos. I'd rather see President Obama's critics ignoring the Kool-Aid drinkers and paying more attention to the issues at hand.


 
Par for the course. 



> Why is spending trillions of taxpayer money the only way out of this economic morass?
> 
> Does the GOP (or anyone opposed to the spending) have any ideas besides voting "no" on the bills?


 
That was fascinating to watch on the new. All these Republicans in the House and Senate, when the President came to call, saying what a great guy he was, voting no to his bill, and offering no substantive alternatives.

Your argument about a lack of leadership in opposition is well-made. 



> Yes, he has only been in office for 10 days, but it has been nearly 3 months since the election. President Obama has assembled his staff and cabinet.


 
I know what you mean. I think I was the first to make the "10-day" comment in response into the hyperventilating over a couple of videos of singing children.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2009)

I can tell you guys my take on the Obamamania.  

Think back to the last time you were really sick.  If you'll forgive me for being a little graphic, there's a point.  I mean really sick.  I was so sick once that I spent 4 days sitting in the bathroom with a bucket between my legs.  My fever would spike to about 103-104 and I couldn't keep anything in me, including water and ultimately ended up having to spend a few days time in the hospital simply to keep me hydrated with fluids.  It was awful, a full week of nausea and delirium and fever as my body struggled to fix itself.  

The point is, when I felt better... when the fever broke... I felt GREAT!  I felt better than I had ever felt before.  It was normal, and normal felt so friggin good I could have danced a jig I was so happy.  THAT is where the country is right now.  

I know that there are people who support and have supported President Bush.  Fine.  I get that.  But many, many people didn't.  Most people didn't.  For most of the people in this country, the last 4 years have been terrible.  For many, the last 8 years have been terrible.  It's been a long period of delirium and nausea and now... having a President who can speak intelligently, who seems intellectually curious, who seems genuinely interested in making things better, it's like waking up after the fever breaks.  Normal feels friggin good.

This isn't blind worship.  He'll still need to make things work, but the GOP needs to be careful that they don't overplay their hand.  If he tries to work with the GOP and they continually obstruct the process, Obama may use his bully pulpit to appeal directly to the people and it could be bad for any chance to regain seats in congress.


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## crushing (Jan 30, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> That was fascinating to watch on the new. All these Republicans in the House and Senate, when the President came to call, saying what a great guy he was, voting no to his bill, and offering no substantive alternatives.


 
In the House both Republicans and some Democrats voted against this new huge spending package, but only Democrats voted for it.  There is some bi-partisanship going on.

I think a person can disagree with someone they consider a "great guy" especially when he is hosting the cocktail party.  Of course, whether an alternative stimulus is substantive is like porn, often in the eye of the beholder.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2009)

crushing said:


> I think a person can disagree with someone they consider a "great guy" especially when he is hosting the cocktail party. Of course, whether an alternative stimulus is substantive is like porn, often in the eye of the beholder.


That's funny.


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## BrandonLucas (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm no political buff, but I was reading this, and I really felt like I needed to throw this out there...

I'm not an Obama fan.  I wasn't a McCain fan, either.  In fact, I wrote in my vote, because I didn't really like anyone on the ballot.

I have my reasons for not liking any of them.  Most of them are individual reasons for disliking the individual...but the one reason that I can say carries across the board:

I don't trust politicians.

Period.

That being said...I have my worries about the whole "President worship" thing.  I live in GA....well, south GA, to be more precise.  Around here, both the "worship" and the "extreme hatred" are both fueled by the same thing, and I hate to bring it up, but it's the truth:

Race

It seems around here, the vast majority of the population of black men and women voted for him simply because he is black.  I've talked to quite a few of these people...and their response is generally the same:  they have no idea what the man stands for, what he wants to do with this country, or if he's even a legit citizen of the United States.  All that seems to matter is that we're putting a black man in the President's chair.

It reminds me of a skit that was on Chappelle's Show on Comedy Central...where anyone and everyone who was black was to receive "repirations".  That's the vibe I get from what everyone around here is thinking his term in office is going to be.

On the flip side, all of the mostly older white people around here hate the man because he's black...and they (ironically enough) hate him seemingly because of the same scenerio from Chapelle's Show.  They all think that he's going to be anti-white, pro-black, and that the world's going to hell.

It's all pretty sad, honestly.  The whole reason we're in the mess we're in is because people who are in charge of the money that *we* earn that *we* pay back to the government are looking to better themselves first, and then the rest of the nation after that.  In other words, my tax money, for some reason, keeps going into somebody else's pockets, and I'm still broke as hell.

I also agree with what stevebjj is saying...at this point, after Bush...I would feel relieved if a freakin' martian took over the Presidency.  The last 4 years have been 1 big headache for me financially, and just the simple fact that Obama is at least* trying* to do something about it makes me feel better.  

Admittedly, I have no idea what is involved in the stimulus package.  I don't understand what the projected effect is going to be on the economy.  I've only recently started trying to follow what's going on in the government, and I'm still trying to understand what everything means.  But I know enough about it at this point to understand that whatever impact Obama makes on us, good or bad, should in no way be attributed to race...and I'm afraid that that's a *huge* part of what's going on around here.  

Small-minded people = disaster for us.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 30, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> None of them (that I have seen) Sang "Bush Bush Will Save The World" or marched in military fatigues and called out how he is _*personally responsible*_ for giving them a chance.



They defended torture, the removal of civil liberties, preemptive war, governmental secrecy, and a whole host of other *actual *ills.  Even if they never acted like Obama's supporters, they enabled and defended the worst of the Bush regime.  That is substance far worse than the show here.

Besides, there was plenty of that with Bush.


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## shesulsa (Jan 30, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> Besides, there was plenty of that with Bush.



Now THAT RIGHT THERE IS SOME SCARY ****.

Let's all be afraid of people becoming inspired to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, getting involved, working to help others, ending an unwinable war.  Yep - let's all be afraid of that.

I suppose the REAL question is this:

Where is the line for hero worship?  What determines the unhealthy point?

The picture someone posted of a Jesus statue with an Obama mask on it was odd ... hopefully it was a joke.  And read this, please:  I don't deny there are idiots out there actually worshipping not only Barack Obama but many other world leaders, celebrities ... there's all kinds of kooks out there.

*But when we back away, for a fleeting moment of our information-soaked adult lives, these children have been impressed with not only a notion, but the REALITY that a person of color can become president in the United States of America.*  For those who are not white, it must be an almost excruciatingly exciting time.  

So ... give the kids their time of joy, hope and inspiration.  Let them become inspired.  Allow their hopes to build and eventually to be dashed. It is the way of things; of learning the hard lessons, that just because a person is inspiring doesn't always mean they are performing.  Nor does it mean they are able to affect the change they want or promised to make.

Perhaps this inspiration will cause them to care in a way their parents did not.


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> But this is exactly what I mean... no one wants to contest the man, its like he holds sway over the masses like a Fakir and a Cobra... even if its unintentional on his part...



I don't think its about not wanting to contest him.  Its a dearth of leadership in the party.   Senator McCain went on the attack during the campaign...but his campaign had no luster.  The highlights to the GOP convention were lipstick on pigs and "drill baby drill".  The GOP till talks the talk about limited spending and limited government, but the elected officials in power don't _vote _that way.  The 1994 Republicans ran on balancing the budget, tort reform, a per-child tax credit, truth in sentencing laws, welfare reform, breaking from the UN Peacekeepers, term limits, and job creation.  The 2008 Republicans ran on drilling in Anwar, anti gay-marriage, support of Iraq, and standing against the privatization of health care and lawd almighty dere's a pro-life gurl on the ticket.  Did we bloody have to re-open the evolution debate during the primaries????  OK, +1 for the evangelical Protestant vote.  Where's the "It's the economy, stupid" sign from Clinton '92?  

Even now I hear right-of-center viewpoint say "Well, if the left tries to inflict more gun control, then that will put the Republicans back power because that's what happened in 1994.  I strongly disagree.  Yes, the backlash against the gun laws drove firearms supporters from both sides to the polls, but the GOP could not have achieved the gains it did without Newt Gingrich's leadership behind the Contract With America.  It was what they plan to do, why they plan to do it, and how they plan to get it done.    The response from the Democrats at the time was largely criticizing and name calling. Boohoo, its the contract _on _America.  Boohoo, Newt Gingrich is a meany and he's weird.  The Democrats did not rise to the occasion and counter what Speaker Gingrich was able to do.  

If race does play a role in countering President Obama, then its reinforcing to the GOP that if they come, they better come correct.    Much like "boo hoo its the contract _on _America" did little for the Democrats in 1994, "boo hoo Obama will take all of our guns" will do little for the Republicans in 2009, and they might even get their wrist slapped in the process.  Perhaps they need it.  Criticism and empty whines do nothing.  There needs to be _substance_.

The message to the GOP seems clear.  Lead, follow, or get out of the way.  Unfortunately, they are choosing the latter.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

Yep I was wrong... OBAMA OBAMA dear OBAMA save me for I can not save myself, please come and help me OBAMA for you are the way....

I am going to quit work let the house go into forcloser the boat as well...
For that matter the new car.. hell I am going to even let ALL of you pay for it... THANKS...


glad i stocked up on ammo.....


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

I hope I am wrong is all i can say...


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> Besides, there was plenty of that with Bush.



So I see ONE video by some religious nut with a Cutout getting people to pray for the (now former) president because he claimed to be a spiritual man.  What I didn't see was them singing "Bush Bush he's gonna save me".  I didn't see them Pledging an oath to *Him*.  I didn't see them Jackstepping in combat fatigues screaming out oaths of what he has given them a chance to do. And I don't see a reworking of the American Flag in Bush's Initials plastered all over.  

And I'm sorry to say, IMO, that saying "Its a great thing Obama is in office because he's black" is as racist (reverse racism?) as some of the Hicks saying how awful it is he is in office for the same reason.  It's still an issue of race.  Can't the man be in office because he was best suited to the Job?

Well... based on his past experience and his Voting record for his home state, he wasn't, really... He was a Black man who happened to not be Republican.  Those 2 factors probably had more to do with him getting elected than his Ability.  That, and McCain wasn't a very good candidate either and we arent allowed to elect third party members.  But I digress.  In the past 11 days the man has been in office I have seen 6 videos of straight up Obama Worship, compared to ONE example someone was able to provide of past presidents, that didn't really even show Bush worship.  

I do hope that I am wrong, and that the Obamamania dies off and we get back to some level-headed thinking, but I really am terrified that ANYTHING the man wants to do will be Ok'ed by his loyal army of whatever the hell those Combat Fatigue Wearing Obama Made Me Great shouting youth were in that Video.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

Be carefull Obama is puting together that Civilian police force, that in no way could ever be compaired to the SS ....


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## Archangel M (Jan 30, 2009)

Im with Cryo on this one. This sort of hero worship of a President is unseen..even compared to JFK and its scary. And Ill go one further..while I dont believe that there is evidence that Obama is intentionally cultivating this atmosphere for nefarious purposes, I do believe that he DID indeed cultivate it...if we dont believe that all the "Change" posters, "O" logos and "messiah" hysteria were intentional PR efforts to garner votes than we have our heads in the sand. Not that it makes him "evil"...it was obviously great strategy, but his campaign did have some direct correlation IMO.

And while Bush obviously did have abysmal approval ratings I think its important to note that Obama didnt win by a popular vote "landslide" there is still a large segment of American society that didnt vote for him. If he wants to be "inclusive" I think it is important for him to remember that.

I do have to give the man credit for one thing to date..I actually heard some Rebublican congressmen praising his efforts to be bipartisan with this stimulus package. Unfortunately Pelosi and the rest of congress is more concerned in taking advantage of their majority than they are in being bipartisan. Hearing a Rep. publicly praising a Dem. President was a hopeful sign so Ill remain openminded on HIM for now. The rest of the hill seems obviously "business as usual".


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## Empty Hands (Jan 30, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> What I didn't see was them singing "Bush Bush he's gonna save me".  I didn't see them Pledging an oath to *Him*.  I didn't see...



Then you weren't paying much attention in the right circles over the past 8 years.  There has been plenty of talk about divinely appointed Bush carrying out God's work from the ultra-religious right.  Plenty of prayer and adulation.  Plenty of defending abhorrent actual behavior like torture which they would condemn from Obama or someone similar.  The Republic managed to survive those idiots, and it will survive these idiots too.  At least Obama shows no intention of serving up heaping platters of disregarding the law and ignoring our rights that his followers will be obliged to defend.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2009)

I know that I'm on thin ice when I speak on this subject, after all I don't have to live 'under' the presidency like you chaps do.  However, the decisions that the President of the USA makes do indirectly affect me because of America's current role as Biggest Kid In The Sandpit, so I hope that gives me a little right to hold forth an opinion on the topic.

What is it that the rest of the world is not seeing about Obama that is inspiring such virulent responses here?  

I'm not asking for emotive responses about Brain-washed Hitler-Youth being created on American soil within days of his taking office or similar 'reasons'.  Forgive me but those sort of things just do not wash, as the saying goes, when an intelligent, informed, discussion is to be had on a political matter.  That's tabloid hyperbole of the standard I'd expect from the News of the World.

Your last president was one of the scariest leaders I've ever seen in my life and I am very happy that he (and the interests he fronted for) no longer have the direct reins of power.  He's (as the Front Man he gets the blame) made such a mess that I reckon it'll take more than one term by a president with a less militaristic view to sort out the damage.  Indeed, it may be too late and the path begun may have to be completed by another 'war leader' as that's the only place left to go to now.

So, given that that is my honest opinon, what is it about Obama that I'm missing that should make me 'fear' his legacy more than that of the Bush dynasty?


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> And while Bush obviously did have abysmal approval ratings I think its important to note that Obama didnt win by a popular vote "landslide" there is still a large segment of American society that didnt vote for him. If he wants to be "inclusive" I think it is important for him to remember that.


For what it's worth, Obama did pretty much win by landslide.  If I remember correctly, he won ~365 electoral vote, and won the popular vote by over 9 million.  And voter turnout was very high.[/quote]


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## elder999 (Jan 30, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Your last president was one of the scariest leaders I've ever seen in my life and I am very happy that he (and the interests he fronted for) no longer have the direct reins of power.


 
Well, that's one thing you're not seeing._*The interests that he fronted for have just as direct a rein as they ever did.*_ They'll just use a subtler approach with Obama in office, to make _everyone on both sides_ think that there's some kind of huge difference.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2009)

Well, yes, I agree with that and have said so on many occasions.  There was an implicit nod in my sentence towards that connection still existing but at one step removed from public sight.

Please don't allow that small semantic reinterpretation of what I wrote to undermine the validity of my deeper question.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

> So, given that that is my honest opinon, what is it about Obama that I'm missing that should make me 'fear' his legacy more than that of the Bush dynasty?


 
For you nothing.. What I fear is losing the same rights you in England are now trying to get back... Like I said once they are gone....


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> Then you weren't paying much attention in the right circles over the past 8 years.  There has been plenty of talk about divinely appointed Bush carrying out God's work from the ultra-religious right.  Plenty of prayer and adulation.  Plenty of defending abhorrent actual behavior like torture which they would condemn from Obama or someone similar.  The Republic managed to survive those idiots, and it will survive these idiots too.  At least Obama shows no intention of serving up heaping platters of disregarding the law and ignoring our rights that his followers will be obliged to defend.



Bush bash bush bash bush bash.  I get it, bush was a ****.  But bashing 8 years of bush does not an answer to my question make.  Show me the Videos of The American "B" logo.  Show me the Celeb videos of them Kissing their Bicepts while reciting "I pledge alliengence to the Bush, on Nation Under Bush"  show me the Kids singing "Bush is gonna save the world", show me the Video of Militant Youth in Fatigues marching to Bush Cadence... Yes, I heard that BUSH claimed he was put in office by the Divine right of Kings, and it was parroted by a few groups, but that does not the same Level of worship make.  I get that you love the man, I get that you see great change because he's NOT Bush.  

But, again, the ISSUE AT HAND IS NOT IF OBAMA IS A GOOD PRESIDENT, MUCH BETTER THAN BUSH.  

The issue is that are People Blindly following him in God-like fashion. AGAIN, Its *NOT ABOUT OBAMA*.  ITS ABOUT HIS WORSHIPPERS.

And FWIW if I may steal a tactic from several of the Liberal Posters here on this board when the discussion WAS about Bush and the Cons brought up Clintion:

*"Bush was in the past.  You cant talk about him anymore" *      Oh Snap.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I'm not asking for emotive responses about Brain-washed Hitler-Youth being created on American soil within days of his taking office or similar 'reasons'.  Forgive me but those sort of things just do not wash, as the saying goes, when an intelligent, informed, discussion is to be had on a political matter.  That's tabloid hyperbole of the standard I'd expect from the News of the World.



But that is exactly what this thread was started about... if you watched the OP's Videos you could see that.


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## shesulsa (Jan 30, 2009)

But again ... there have been worshippers of all kinds of evil. What's so different about this?  Sorry, but I don't see this as much different from the Dittoheads. And they're adults.

Oh snap.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

Thanks Zombie for trying to get it back on track...
 It is the same old tatic, wow that is kind of weird and scary....
 Quick lets change the subject....maybe they wont notice...


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## Empty Hands (Jan 30, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> The issue is that are People Blindly following him in God-like fashion. AGAIN, Its *NOT ABOUT OBAMA*.  ITS ABOUT HIS WORSHIPPERS.



The only point is that this is not a new thing.  As I said, if you know where to look, there was quite a lot of "worship" of Bush.  Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that the current excitement will turn into the next Holocaust.



Cryozombie said:


> *"Bush was in the past.  You cant talk about him anymore" *      Oh Snap.



It's a relevant comparison.  Sorry you don't like it.  You also brought it up.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2009)

That sound you fail to hear (because on the Internet noone can hear you scream ) is my giving up trying to have a 'conversation of equals' on American politics (that's one where the inherent ideas matter, not the trumpeting of individual party-lines embraced with fervour which is so often mistaken for political discourse).

From now on I'll limit myself to Moderator duties only on such issues. Try to keep the shouting, name calling and deliberate-point-obfuscation down to a minimum if you don't mind.

Honestly, it's like the House of Commons at Prime Ministers Question Time in here .


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## shesulsa (Jan 30, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> That sound you fail to hear (because on the Internet noone can hear you scream ) is my giving up trying to have a 'conversation of equals' on American politics (that's one where the inherent ideas matter, not the trumpeting of individual party-lines embraced with fervour which is so often mistaken for political discourse).
> 
> From now on I'll limit myself to Moderator duties only on such issues. Try to keep the shouting, name calling and deliberate-point-obfuscation down to a minimum if you don't mind.
> 
> Honestly, it's like the House of Commons at Prime Ministers Question Time in here .



The thing is ... that it seems to be a screaming match - who can make the point best or who can scream the loudest about the opposing team breaking the rules when they're breaking the rules themselves.

The Democrats have been quiet and serene long enough, letting themselves be bullied, interrupted and belittled with sophomoric tactics by the right to the point where everyone was wondering if we were, indeed, seeing the end of Democracy in America.

Lo and behold, we have a hope.  What else would "they" do but attack it with all their might?  It's to be expected. Sadly so, nonetheless it's the distracting game the GOP has relied on for several decades now.

If non-GOPers stop talking, stop holding the right accountable for what they say, point out the inequities in concern for national policy and the Us Vs. Them debate, then we surely WILL see the end of Democracy in America.

Please don't stop interjecting with your views from across the Pond.

What you (and some of my fellow Americans) might not know is that our news is grossly censored.  The so-called LIBRUL MEEDGIA is owned by conservative interests and will not divulge the truth of our national action to the American press.  So the news our radio stations put out to the UK is wholly different than what we hear.

We NEED to hear it.  We NEED to read it.  If ever the world were a smaller place than now, we can't know the importance of how we appear to others, reasons behind policy _towards_ the United States.

As much as I tire of the Emporer's New Clothes syndrome and the Emporer's New Evil syndrome ... we must not give up.  Truth becomes lies only when silenced.

:asian:


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## Ramirez (Jan 30, 2009)

jetboatdeath said:


> Be carefull Obama is puting together that Civilian police force, that in no way could ever be compaired to the SS ....



What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?

 Get a grip.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 30, 2009)

In a hundred days, the honeymoon will be over, that "New President" smell turned to something akin to week old sweat socks, and the economy will be even more ****ed up, and another 100,000+ out of work, and another dozen+ companies will have gone **** up. 

Lets see if the songs are still sung, the boys in the shirts still snappy in their step, and the kool aid still as sweet.


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## Empty Hands (Jan 30, 2009)

Ramirez said:


> What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?



*waves to Secret Service*


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

> What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?
> 
> Get a grip.


 
Tom Cruise assassinated Obama in Valkyrie?

WOW sounds like you are the one who needs to "get a grip"


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## Sukerkin (Jan 30, 2009)

That's enough of that, gentlemen, if you would be so kind.  Let's not take any more steps down the road that can only lead to flames.

It would be better for the health of the thread if discourse could be conducted at a level of respect greater than that normally expected of the average school playground.

If you find it impossible to communicate with a given member in a respectful fashion, then feel free to use the Ignore function. If another member posts something that is directly addressing yourself in a negative fashion rather than discussing the 'issues', then please make use of the 'Report to Moderator' function.

These two simple steps will help make on-line life a good deal more pleasant for everyone.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator


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## Archangel M (Jan 30, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> For what it's worth, Obama did pretty much win by landslide. If I remember correctly, he won ~365 electoral vote, and won the popular vote by over 9 million. And voter turnout was very high.


[/quote]

Im only reffering to the popular vote. *66,882,230* to *58,343,671*  may seem like a lot but its only a little more than the population of NYC and Long Island...one small corner of the nation. 58 million who didnt vote for you is far from a "landslide" as I see it.


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## jetboatdeath (Jan 30, 2009)

Removed post, I could not validate the artical..


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## Cryozombie (Jan 30, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> It's a relevant comparison.  Sorry you don't like it.  You also brought it up.




Actually I don't give a **** if you use it or not, I just find it funny that when it was comparing Clinton to Bush all the Lefties screamed Foul! He isnt in office anymore you cant do that! so I had an opportunity to say "Hypocritical much?"  (Not specifically to you Empty, but just in general.)  I love how that seems to work from the left to the right, and vice versa.



Empty Hands said:


> The only point is that this is not a new thing. As I said, if you know where to look, there was quite a lot of "worship" of Bush. Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that the current excitement will turn into the next Holocaust.



I don't really know where to look.  Can you post a few worship videos and a copy of the New America Youth Bush Logo?  When I searched for Bush Worship (yeah you can imagine what came up, LOL) but I found that Video you posted and a bunch of Lefties complaing that the Righties worship him, but nothing very substantial.  Granted I didnt look to deep... but then you don't have to look very deep to find it of the Worshippers of the Big O


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## Steve (Jan 31, 2009)

Archangel M said:


> Im only reffering to the popular vote. *66,882,230* to *58,343,671*  may seem like a lot but its only a little more than the population of NYC and Long Island...one small corner of the nation. 58 million who didnt vote for you is far from a "landslide" as I see it.


Okay.  I'll clarify my position and then let the point go. Take it for what you will.  I certainly don't think this is a gotcha point either way.  It's a big country and I understand what you were saying about lots of people not voting for him. That's very true, and it wasn't technically a landslide in the popular vote.  But you can't imply that it was close, because it wasn't ever close.  And the electoral college, where it counts, was a blow out.   

Here's what I was saying.  It wasn't technically a blowout (i.e. it didn't exceed 55%) but it was damn close for a black dude running against a war hero while the country is fighting overseas on two fronts.  It's very late and I don't particularly like math, but isn't ~68000000 votes out of ~125 million close to 55%?   Not as much of a asskicking as Reagan's win in 1984 (which, while over 500 electoral votes was still only about 58% of the popular vote), but still very decisive. We're talking the highest percentage of votes ever in a presidential election was 61.1%.  

You said he didn't win by a popular vote landslide.  While technically true, it was certainly far more of a "mandate" than Bush's razor thin margin of victory in 2004 and way more than Bush's loss in the popular vote to Gore in 2000. 

Don't taze me man!


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## Steve (Jan 31, 2009)

Cryozombie said:


> Actually I don't give a **** if you use it or not, I just find it funny that when it was comparing Clinton to Bush all the Lefties screamed Foul! He isnt in office anymore you cant do that! so I had an opportunity to say "Hypocritical much?"  (Not specifically to you Empty, but just in general.)  I love how that seems to work from the left to the right, and vice versa.


Clinton was compared to Bush?  I've seen some pretty rough political arguments, but haven't seen that defense yet.  Maybe I just need to get out more.  What do those two have in common?  I can't think of one thing good or bad, either way.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Clinton was compared to Bush? I've seen some pretty rough political arguments, but haven't seen that defense yet. Maybe I just need to get out more. What do those two have in common? I can't think of one thing good or bad, either way.


 
Search some of the old threads here, a lot of times people would say crap like "Bush's War" and others would go "What about Clinton in Somalia, blah blah" that kind of crap.  Then the response back would be along the lines of "Clinton isn't in office anymore, so talking about what he did was pointless/is a strawman/is not acceptable" etc.


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## crushing (Jan 31, 2009)

stevebjj said:


> Clinton was compared to Bush?  I've seen some pretty rough political arguments, but haven't seen that defense yet.  Maybe I just need to get out more.  What do those two have in common?  I can't think of one thing good or bad, either way.



While I wouldn't call it a defense of anyone. . .:

Milosevic was Clinton's Saddam Hussein.
Rwanda was Clinton's Darfur
Nader was Clinton's Perot
Somalia was Clinton's Liberia
WTC attacks
Attacks against Afghanistan and Iraq
Passed horrible economies on to the next president.
Lost control of Congress
International Interventionism/Nation Building
Continued increasing national debt
Expansion (abuse?) of wiretapping
Poll driven decision making
Executive branch obstructionism


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