# My Personal Martial Journey: An Application of the Principles of War



## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 21, 2007)

When I first began martial arts it was in 1986. I was 6 years old and wanted to learn it because it looked fun and amazing. I trained at a school that did a little of everything.TKD, Kung-Fu, Ju-Jitsu, Kickboxing, etc. As I became older my motivations changed. I still thought it was fun and looked cool, but now I also wanted to be able to handle the bullies. As I got even older (my early teens) I decided the best way to beat the bullies was to bully the bullies. I got into (and instigated) lots of scuffles with the local hoods. I won some and lost some but got enough rep to not be messed with on da regular. At this time I talked to my grandfather and my father (who both served my country and grew up in the ghettoes of Baltimore and Virginia) about fighting, war and combat. They both mentioned to me the principles of war, but it never really stuck. Probably because I like details and they just mentioned themthey didnt explain what they were..they left it for me to find out. I started Kenpo Karate in 1998 (about a year or two after my grandfather passed) and saw an article in Black Belt magazine on applying the principles of war to martial arts. Again, the principles of war came up. It didnt fully hit me though until I put it together with MMA. Id lived in the ghettoes of the city with the nations worst murder rate, been in countless fights, been shot, been stabbed and seen countless fights, assaults, muggings and a few muryou get the idea. But most of these were by untrained people. MMA gave me regular exposure to trained people fighting it out with techniques I was familiar with and it just opened my eyes so to speak. Something flipped in my head and it all made sense combined with what my dad and grandpa told me. A little voice told me. Fighting/Self-Defense is a war. Your life or the life/lives of those you care about are the spoils of this war. If these spoils are valuable to you then follow the principles of war like you follow the principles of martial arts. So my motivations changed againlooking good wasnt even a factor now so out went some of the more outlandish stuff I did in TKD and Kung-Fu. Those 540 degree spin kicks I used to do? Forgotten. Kenpo and Ju-Jitsu became my moniker to reflect the path and arts I was choosing to carry me through the wars ahead. But what about those principles of war? Well I applied them and continue to do so. This is my personal journey .may you find benefit in my sharing part of it with you. 

MASS  Applying sufficient force to achieve the objective.

Well, mass involves force. Force, as in sufficient force, is often determined by the size of the object relative to its acceleration from a physics standpoint. When I was ranked to 1st Black in Kenpo in 2000 I weighed 138lbs. I had difficulty with guys over 200lbs who were also skilled. Why? Because they had more mass to use to achieve the sufficient force they needed for their objectives. A mere 200lb man had 60lbs on me. That was 43% of my body weight. This didnt account for the strength that often accompanies that extra bulk. I applied this principle by changing my workout routines, my lifestyle and my diet. I now hover at about 190lbs (Im only 57) instead of 138lbs. Its not all muscle (if I cut up again Ill drop to about 180lbs) but much of it is. Now the 200lb guys that gave me trouble only have a 10lb advantage. Thats only 5% of my body weight. I managed to increase my speed, instead of decrease it, with the increase in weight as it took me a while to get to this weight (about 6-7 years of slow growth). So for striking I have more mass for that F=MA formula that is quoted so often. The increased weight has also increased my inertia which makes my base more stable and makes me harder to move around (not even counting the leg strength increase). Also for the Ju-Jitsu side of things all of the locks, chokes and holds are based on leverage. Leverage is nothing but a force/weight multiplier on the physics side of things. The more force you can put in the more you can get out.exponentially. Im heavier and stronger so I have more force to apply to the levers my Ju-Jitsu technique creates. I can now better utilize the MASS principle of war for sufficient force by using the increased mass of my body to make it easier to generate sufficient force as well as increase the maximum amount of force I can generate. There is another added benefit as well. When I was growing up there was a joke that went around about loving thick women because there was more cushion for the pushin. Well, more cushion applies to combat as well. I have more durability due to the increased natural armor (muscle and the accompanying increase in bone density to support the extra muscle weight and tensile strength). Blows that hurt like hell back in 2000 dont even register as much now. A 38% increase in body mass will do that for you. Thats why pro fights have weight classes. Size and strength matters. Think of techniques as the vehicleyouve got to have the fuel or in our case attributes.things like size, speed, strength, agility, flexibility, coordination, timing, etc. In short I started actually conditioning my body besides just toughening my striking surfaces.

OBJECTIVE  Define a decisive and attainable objective for every military operation.

I talk about this when I teach constantly. When I ask people what their desired objective is in a fight/self-defense scenario they always answer in the same ways: I want to defend myself, I want to prevent him from hurting me, I want to finish the fight. I tell them this is akin to saying I want to win the war. This just states the obvious and doesnt cover the important aspect of HOW they are going to win the war. HOW is the objective. For my personal Kenpo (personal in the sense that its what I do not necessarily what I teach) my attainable objective is to get to the opponents neck/spine. The reason for this objective is that it offers varying levels of finality as well as a nearly unmatched point of access to and control of the opponents body, position and reactions. My personal Kenpo is trained to be able to get to this target from any position against any attack. This is the objective for me. This is my roadmap to finish the war. I dont merely want to defend myself. I want to defend myself by getting to his spine/neck. I dont want to prevent him from hurting me. I want to prevent him from hurting me by getting to the control point his spine/neck offers. I dont want to finish fight. I want to finish the fight by getting to his spine/neck. My objective has two prime components; Finality and Specificity. I know exactly what I want to do and I know that when I do it. the war is almost certainly over. Also, like any military objective there are secondary objectives that lead to the primary objective. These objectives can lead the way or be bonuses depending on how the battle goes. My preferred secondary objective is to gain control of an arm. The reason being is that the arm is 1) a control point in and of itself, 2) is also a weapon and 3) is almost always presented by being utilized to strike, grab or employ a WMD (Weapon of Man-made Design). By seizing it I have seized a major weapon and a major control point. This control point also just happens to serve as a nice path to the final objective...the neck. This is how I train to win the war and I train it constantly and consistently. As long as I live my attackers will be human, they will have necks and their necks will provide varying ways of ending the war. My road for every war is specific and final to increase my probability of surviving and winning the war.

OFFENSIVE  Seize, retain and exploit the initiative.

Offensive. Defense is great; it will delay the enemy from achieving his objective(s). However, offense is final. Offense is what allows us to use the mass we have worked on to achieve the objective we have set. For my personal Kenpo I am offensive minded, and NO I dont mean I always strike first or intend to. My defensive movements are adjusted with an offensive purpose in mind. I dont block much in my personal Kenpo. I parry a lot to lead the opponent into positions I find favorable while increasing the extension of his weapons. This increases his reload time while at the same time extending his defensive capabilities beyond the effective range of defending my final objectivehis spine. When I do block, I block on angles that inflict damage and/or maneuver the opponent into positions of advantage. My blocks are almost always striking parries. I favor parries because of their yielding nature (Ju-Jitsu). It factors into another principle that will be discussed lateractually a few. Now that weve covered offensive defense lets step into the realm of offense. When I strike, I strike decisively. When I grab and manipulate I do it decisively. Decisively in the sense that none of it is arbitrary or based on mere target availability, its target availability with a purpose. All offensive strikes, holds, locks, etc. serve the purpose of either A) advancing me towards my final objective or B) completing my secondary objective en route to my final objective. Also each offensive maneuver is trained to lead into the next so as to press the advantage Ive gained. Each move I make should not only advance me closer to my objective but it should also make it increasingly difficult for my opponent to regain his initiative. This is where the manipulation aspects come into play. The Strike! Strike! Strike! mentality or the Always use Kenpos Kinetic Impact mentality allows the opponent too much maneuverability to regain the initiative and restart his offensive should our blows not have the desired effect due to missing the target or not generating enough force. If he is free to move, he is free to recover. When I grab, I prefer not to let go. Its a constant grab-hit-grab-hit.and each grab is not a mere grab, its a grab with a purpose. Its a lock, a choke, a manipulation, a push, a pull. If I check its with an ACTIVE check. My checking hand is doing something. There is no room for mere positional checks in my personal Kenpo or at my level. Cancelling a zone to prevent his maneuverability is only momentary, especially with strikes. Manipulations have a much greater duration of effect and offer more options for regulating and escalating the force as well as changing to a new option should one fail.

SURPRISE  Strike the enemy at a time and/or place and in a manner for which he is unprepared.

Surprise is getting the opponent with something he is not ready for. The way I personally approach this is by having a variety of tactics and angles for acquiring my primary and secondary objectives. Therefore, I have a myriad of techniques. I have the Kenpo, the Ju-Jitsu, The Kickboxing, etc. I believe in having as many tools on my belt as possible so that I am more likely to have the tool I need. I also train to have my tools interchangeable and inter-connectable so as to be able switch to them as the situation dictates. I train to strike from a variety of positions and postures. I train to grapple and manipulate off of positions where many people just strike from. I work on creating obscure zones to strike from to prevent the opponent from fortifying target zones. I work on creating damage from seemingly innocuous grabs. I work on transitioning to my preferred key positions from all other positions on the map (map being the opponents body and immediate environmental area) and all conceivable angles. In this way I have a path of least resistance available in most situations as well as the option to brute force it up the path of most resistance since many arent prepared for that. Throughout history there is always an arms race going on with countries developing new weapons and trying to conceal their capabilities from the enemy. In my personal war plan my arms race is learning as much technique as possible. My method of concealing my capabilities is by doing that which I have little intention of repeating. I strike to get to a grab. I grab to get to a strike. Pure Ju Jitsu guys often grab, to grab, to grab and pure Kenpo guys often strike, to strike, to strike. Part of the surprise is that I switch methods constantly on the way to the objective.

ECONOMY OF FORCE  Focus the right amount of force on the key objective, without wasting force on secondary objectives.

Remember what I mentioned about my primary objective and PREFERRED secondary objective? Remember where I mentioned that secondary objectives are bonuses? My objective is the neck/spine. I dont try to get the arm to get there. I want to get to the neck. The arm is destroyed if it is presented. I dont have to destroy every weapon on the map to complete my objective. If I can circumvent them to reach the objective then I will do that. But thats only part of it. My system of parries over blocks ties into this. I need the opponent to be in certain positions for me to do certain things. There are three ways to achieve this. He can move, I can move or both. Now of these three ways there are two ways it can occuron my initiative or his. To stick with the offensive principle I would have to move him, move myself or both. The parries work on both. As I parry, I place him in the position I need to advance to the objective. At the same time I move myself to an advantageous position and load one or preferably several weapons. By parrying I allow him to discharge his weapon, increase his reload time, move his defenses away from my objective, improve my position on the map and load my weapon(s).all while conserving the energy I need to actually apply the mass principle en route to my objective.

MANEUVER  Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through the flexible application of combat power.

Remember the sections on parries? Then there is no need to repeat them as they were heavy on maneuvering. Another aspect of this is my own maneuvers. When I step, hop, jump, leap, shuffle, twist, turn, bob, weave, flip, duck, dive, etc. I do it with a purpose. The purpose needs to be offensive in nature. When I take evasive action it is still with the intent of improving my position on the battlefield (environment). When I back-step it is not merely to evade. It is to evade AND draw the opponent in AND get him to extend his defensive capabilities AND get him to create targets. This is all offensive as opposed to dodging solely for the sake of not getting hit. All maneuvers are trained with this in mind. Yet another aspect of this is manipulation via strikes or other methods. As mentioned previously each weapon/attack I expend has a purpose for achieving the objective. Often times the weapon deployed cannot end the war on its own. Therefore, it is used to maneuver the opponent the opponent into position for another weapon that is even more effective than the one before it. Weapons ARE NOT to be deployed to maneuver the opponent into position for a weaker weapon. Kenpo example: people using major blows to set up eye slices and flicks. It should be the other way around.

UNITY OF COMMAND  For every objective, there must be a unified effort and one person responsible for command decisions.

Simply put.focus. There is only one objective for me and I am the only soldier in this battle. I have to remain resolute in my obtaining of the objective and once the objective is seized it must be utilized by me immediately. There can be no waiting for backup to arrive, or allowing other thought process to intrude on my combat mindset. Its me, the war, the objective, period. When the threat is neutralized I must then look for a path of extraction that is again dependant on and decided by me. No other persons or thoughts are allowed to interfere. The targets are marked, the battlefield is examined, the objective noted, and the war plan is already designed. This is a solo mission, carry it out according to the plan, finish it, and go home to the spoils of war I mentioned earlier. Everyone has a plan until they get hit. Plans change, but the objective in this war remains the sameit is the surest way to a final, achievable and desirable outcome. It is the best way home for me.

SECURITY  Never permit the enemy to acquire an unexpected advantage.

Weve discussed this before. Each movement, maneuver and/or attack made is to get closer to the objective WHILE AT THE SAME TIME increasing the difficulty for the opposition to regain the initiative for their objective. All preferred checks are active, positional checks are only in-between points of reloading. Zones are cancelled by manipulation wherever possible. Manipulations can transition to other areas with greater speed and efficiency than ballistic strikes can. The opponent is to be attacked in such a way that each attack 1) leads the way to the next attack, 2) clears the way for the next attack and 3) disarms or redirects the opponents attack options. Each attack should have a higher degree of success than the one before it. And by each attack I dont mean each strike or each lock. I mean each BEAT. There are often times where multiple strikes/holds occur on a single beat. Each beat is to make things tighter than the one before. The attack should be an ever tightening vice until the opposition is crushed. This is also why I prefer not to let go once a viable grab is secured. There is a reason why it is called SECURING a hold on something in the first place.

SIMPLICITY  Prepare clear, uncomplicated planes and clear, concise orders.

My plans and objectives have been clearly outlined. My tactics have been clearly outlined as well. For a recap the tactics are: Parry whenever possible, Manipulate to strike, Strike to manipulate, achieve key positions and control points, disarm/disable weapons ONLY when possible, disarm/disable weapons ONLY en route to the primary objective. My orders are simple: secure the primary objective by means of the trained tactics. My actions are all trained to create an intermeshing series of maneuvers all of which are multi-function. Therefore my movements, my objectives and my plans are as simple as possible. This is my Kenpo Ju Jitsu, this is the path Im on todaytomorrow may be different.


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## still learning (Sep 21, 2007)

Hello, Principle of war?  Is it really about being able to fight back with good techniques? Is it really about having to actully fight and win?

Between countries...the principle 's of war is to destroy the other's army as so they cannot win, without killing the innocent people.

In martial arts?  You may want to rethink this message you are giving here?

Martial arts is learning fighting skills.  The principles of war in martial arts is NOT to fight!  BUT: to be prepare for battle.

By making your body and skills stronger...your skills as a person also becomes stronger....humble,kindness,honesty,truefullness, the growing up of excepting people weakness, by not allowing them to get to you!

If you fight..it is because the other person got you to do it!  They won ..because they got you to fight!

There is always another way to avoid, or prevent war or wars?

The principles of war?  What is it really? for a martial artist?

When people or countries fight? ...both sides loss the battle because they couldn't solve it another way.

Any fighting is wrong....because there are always other ways to solve life prolbems.  Killing or hurting someone is NOT a principle of wars's

Just my thoughts on this!   Aloha

PS:Bruce Lee "art of fighting without fighting"


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## still learning (Sep 21, 2007)

Hello, All those years of training and learning how to fight back with your arms, and legs.

Then someone who knows about the Principle of wars...uses a gun to shoot you dead.  He won by using more effective training and use of weapons. because he knows he can't beat you with his fists or kicks.

Principles of war is also knowing when one can win or one should leave.

Learning awareness and avoidence are the highest skill one can learn in the principles of wars.  

Principle of war...the Chinese hate us...yet they are winning thru product that we buy and one day we cannot live without those products...then they control us without a FIGHT!

There is always more than one way to win!

Lottery numbers will be sold, at $78.68 cents each, till tueday...at that time MY number will be drawn, making me the winner! principle of war is to win?

Aloha (my number is 777) " oh my, how lucky!"


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm talking apples and you're talking about oranges.  You're talking morals, negotiations and what the military refers to as deterrents.  You're talking about pre-war prep and arms races.  I'm talking when all of that has failed and it's time for the actual war because someone else wants it.  The Principles of war are for the actual war and have nothing to do with war prevention whatsoever.  When some jackass is trying to kill you (as has happened to me more than once) you don't solve it another way. You fight to live, period.  There is NOT ALWAYS another way to prevent.....some things are unavoidable.  Hope for the best, prepare the worst.  In an ideal world you don't have to fight...I don't live in an ideal world.  As to the gun example, I've lived it.  I've been shot before...and at the least I lived to tell about it.  Most of what you mentioned about war avoidance is true...but it has absolutely nothing to do with survival when an actual war begins.


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## Tez3 (Sep 22, 2007)

With regards to the MASS paragraph, I understand how a man can bulk up and get stronger but what would you suggest for a 5 foot 4 female? I really don't want to put any more weight on, quite the opposite! Training with people who are always stronger and heavier than me means I never win in sparring. I don't know about outside the club though. 

I'm still reading the rest, I have to print it out to read properly!


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## still learning (Sep 22, 2007)

Hello, Principles of war?  Is to over whem the enemy so they will not fight you.

USA military is the largest and most advance military in the world. Why? the principle of war, NO one wants to fight a bigger or advance army.  The key over whem them in force and power to prevent them from attacking.  or if you are going to fight?  be sure you can win!
-------------------------  -----------------------------------------
Now for your thoughts of principles of war:  All that training?  In a fight there is NO RULES.

One should use every available weapon or rocks to win!  Even Bruce Lee mention in a real fight?  I be stupid not to use some kind of weapon.

 I don't know your behavior...I am sure there are lots of people where you live NEVER ever got into a fight?  

Where you live me be dangerous ...but that is NO excuse.  A true martial artist prepare himself for battle,  OVER WHEMS THE ENEMY... with his internal strengths.  (it is good to look bigger and stronger).
but there are many smaller people who are better than most.

Principle of war is to win...NO rules!   Winning without fighting is smarter principle.  Guns and knives use smartly against an enemy who does not see it will win....over you!  Principle of war is to win!

Sorry we do not agree....Aloha (from a more friendly place to live).


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## stone_dragone (Sep 22, 2007)

It would appear that there is a major misunderstanding going on here.  The principles of war that Mr. Hawkins is discussing are from a treatise written by Carl von Clausewitz called _Vom Kriege _(_On War_).  It would appear in the preceding discussions that some think that these are an invention of Mr. Hawkins'...not the case.  It is, however a great work and worth reading for anyone who wishes to expand an understanding of military and fighting strategy.

I enjoyed reading the martial arts translation of these principles, but have to raise discussion on the Mass principle as well.  From a military strategy standpoint, Mass has nothing to do with having a larger and faster tank, per se.  It is, instead, relative to massing effects on the enemy. From the Martial arts aspect it doesn't speak so much on punching with a heavier body but combining the effects of the kick to the knee with the uppercut to the chin when he is already off balance from missing with his haymaker punch that you ducked.  

From the military aspect, it includes using the synergystic effects of airpower, indirect (artillery) and direct (small arms) fires in conjunction with the battlefield effects, weather and intangibles (morale, rest, etc) to produce the best mission accomplishing affect on the enemy.


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## still learning (Sep 22, 2007)

Hello,  Sorry guys.....got carry away.

If the Muslums terrorist use those same energy in fighting against others?  ....use those energy toward's building schools, hospitals,churchs, and helping the poor NO matter the race or religion.

Those same energy will win more people over to there way of thinking than all the forces in the world.

This is one of the principles of war.  (by winning the heart and minds).

Terrorist believe's by killing others? ...other will believe and follow them? You can't force someone to believe in you if you do not have their hearts and minds.

Like a child ...I will spank you if you do not behave?  hurting a child so they can be nice?   Think this is the only way to raise a child?

If you live in rough neighborhood?  Learning the martial arts so you can fight back?  is not a good principle of war? cause the fighting will never end.

Learn VERBAL JUDO?  Some of the best principle of war is written in this book.

Just trying to point out...fighting is NOT always the best answer....

Aloha


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## KenpoDave (Sep 22, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> I enjoyed reading the martial arts translation of these principles, but have to raise discussion on the Mass principle as well. From a military strategy standpoint, Mass has nothing to do with having a larger and faster tank, per se. It is, instead, relative to massing effects on the enemy. From the Martial arts aspect it doesn't speak so much on punching with a heavier body but combining the effects of the kick to the knee with the uppercut to the chin when he is already off balance from missing with his haymaker punch that you ducked.
> 
> From the military aspect, it includes using the synergystic effects of airpower, indirect (artillery) and direct (small arms) fires in conjunction with the battlefield effects, weather and intangibles (morale, rest, etc) to produce the best mission accomplishing affect on the enemy.


 
Well, first of all, thank you James for a well thought out, compelling application of the Principles of War to your own journey.

Stone Dragone, I think you, also, are right in some contexts, but James did mention that he was the only soldier in this battle.  I think the mass principle can work either way, and would suggest to Tez3 that her particular question regarding mass on a 5'4" female who does not want to bulk up was answered by Stone Dragone.

Stone Dragone, I would ask, given your opinion on MASS having nothing to do with "bigger;" What then is the point of building bigger bombs, or creating guns with heavier impact?

Joe Simonet likes to ask, "Well what if you're big and good?"  As a kenpo practitioner, (and I've seen his stuff all over YouTube) I know that James is familiar with the concept of overwhelming thru synergistic combinations of strikes.  But as he stated at the onset, what about the bigger guys that were trained?  Remember who Bruce Lee always said he feared?  "The guy who knows everything I know, but is taller and outweighs me by 50 pounds."

Personally, I loved the article.  Thanks, James!


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## KenpoDave (Sep 22, 2007)

still learning said:


> Just trying to point out...fighting is NOT always the best answer....
> 
> Aloha


 
But...sometimes it is the only answer.  We all spend hours and years preparing for the moment that we pray will never happen.  I would certainly rather be capable of and choose not to, than not be capable of and have to try anyway.


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## stone_dragone (Sep 22, 2007)

I have to agree that it is a well written and thought out article.  Re: KenpoDave's question about bigger bombs, this military as a whole has steered away from looking for and making the "bigger bang" and has gone more in the direction of a "better bang" in that we achieve more with less collateral damage.  Oftentimes these days our objective is not to destroy the village but to send a small group of planners in a single room in a specific building on a particular street to meet their maker.  This objective can only be met by a massing of intel assets, communication, leadership and direct firepower to minimize collateral damage.  

Sometimes it doesn't work...but I again am hijacking a thread...back to the discussion of principles of war as organized by clauswicz and presented by kenpojujitsu


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## still learning (Sep 23, 2007)

Hello, Man has two choices they can get along or get into fights.

Why do we have more gangs and gangs fighing in Amercia?   Each believes the only way they can survive is by destroying the other guy, bullying each other.

So one principle of war is to make yourself bigger,stronger, with numbers and weapons.  The other side does the same thing too! 

Than when one gets pick-on...your answer is to fight back?  ..eye for a eye.  There are always more than one way to solve any conflict.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Muggers,robbers,gang members and home bullies? .....sometimes you do need to fight back?  again there is always other ways you can solve any conflict.

TEACH HATE AND IT LASTS FOREVER.....our kids look at us as role models to follow.

Why does the black and white problem in Amercia NEVER ENDS?  Each side teaches more hate!  The younger ones wants to be like there parents/role models.  Then they too(children goes up) to hate and their kids become like there parents.

Will we be able to STOP passing hate of each other?   Man never will!

Aloha ( hate to say goog-bye) ..oops


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## KenpoDave (Sep 23, 2007)

still learning said:


> Why do we have more gangs and gangs fighing in Amercia?


 
We don't.  We're not near the same level as Brazil.  And many other countries don't have gangs, they have tribes.  Look at Iraq.  Shiites, Kurds, Sunis, call 'em gangs, call 'em tribes, it's the same stuff.

But I think you need to re-read James' post.  I think that you have misunderstood his points entirely.


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## still learning (Sep 23, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> We don't. We're not near the same level as Brazil. And many other countries don't have gangs, they have tribes. Look at Iraq. Shiites, Kurds, Sunis, call 'em gangs, call 'em tribes, it's the same stuff.
> 
> But I think you need to re-read James' post. I think that you have misunderstood his points entirely.


 
Hello, Good be? ...thank-you,....    ( one see the blue sky? the other see the mud on the ground).

Here one is talking about one thing?  and the other something else?  IS IT ME?   yep! ....Aloha


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 24, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> I enjoyed reading the martial arts translation of these principles, but have to raise discussion on the Mass principle as well. From a military strategy standpoint, Mass has nothing to do with having a larger and faster tank, per se. It is, instead, relative to massing effects on the enemy. From the Martial arts aspect it doesn't speak so much on punching with a heavier body but combining the effects of the kick to the knee with the uppercut to the chin when he is already off balance from missing with his haymaker punch that you ducked./quote]
> 
> You have to have enough force to get the job done.  MASSing the target as in hitting it with multiple strikes to multiple target zons is useless if the strikes don't have enough force to get the desired effect.  If you want to MASS a bridge you need enough exlposives combined with the proper locations.  But you still need enough explosives.  Same thing with the body mass.  You can either have more mass or more acceleration or both.  After you have enough of a bang, then you can work on placing the bang in the right spots at the right time to MASS the target.  But you have to start with enough 'explosives' to get the job done.  So I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with a bigger bomb. You need the bomb to 'big' enough first and that is a part of the MASS principle.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 24, 2007)

Tez3 said:


> With regards to the MASS paragraph, I understand how a man can bulk up and get stronger but what would you suggest for a 5 foot 4 female? I really don't want to put any more weight on, quite the opposite! Training with people who are always stronger and heavier than me means I never win in sparring. I don't know about outside the club though.
> 
> I'm still reading the rest, I have to print it out to read properly!


 
Bulking up is only part of it and it is also only the way I chose to approach the problem personally.  As far as F=MA you can increase the acceleration as well.  This can involve training to increase your own speed or training to cause your opponent to run into your blows.  Like kick his knees out and knee his face as his head falls down.  MASS is just having enough force in the right place to get the job done.  My personal issue was guys bigger than me that knew where I needed to place the force.  Their ability to fortify outmatched the amount of force I could generate.  So I can to increase the force output as thewy were and are skilled enough to keep me from making them run into my shots.


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## still learning (Sep 24, 2007)

Hello, Even a little girl can hit you in the groin and drop you!

Eye balls do not needs speed ,power or mass strenghts to rake or poke at!

Big muscles, big body?  means not a thing in martial arts.  It helps!

The average person can break the the collar bone ( ususally about 7 lbs of force) with a hammer blow.

Size in striking is helping and more powerful.....but the average person can destroy anyone!.....with proper training!

A throat strike or grab by any average person can take you out!

Principle of war?  What really is it?  Mass?  or just the right amount of power?


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 24, 2007)

still learning said:


> Big muscles, big body? means not a thing in martial arts. It helps!


 
You must be kidding. Size doesn't matter? Sorry, but my life's experience has proven otherwise time and again. If it didn't mean anything there would be no weight classes in competitive martial arts events among other things.



> Size in striking is helping and more powerful.....but the average person can destroy anyone!.....with proper training!


 
Does it mean nothing or is it helpful and more powerful? If training is all that's required and size and conditioning don't matter what seperates two equally skilled people?



> Principle of war? What really is it? Mass? or just the right amount of power?


 
The principle is whatever amount of force it takes to get the job done. Size counts, big time. F=MA has an upper limit. if the amount of force you generate can't match the force necessary to hurt the target you are in trouble. The eyes, throat and groin are what everybody uses a crutch, but to be blunt those are 4 small target areas compared to the entire body and most people instinctively protect them. So when you can't get to them effectively (and I've seen this too many times) then what?


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## Carol (Sep 24, 2007)

Quite the article, James! I enjoyed reading that very much.  Kudos to you for writing it, and sharing it with all of us! :asian:


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## still learning (Sep 24, 2007)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> You must be kidding. Size doesn't matter? Sorry, but my life's experience has proven otherwise time and again. If it didn't mean anything there would be no weight classes in competitive martial arts events among other things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hello, You may have miss understand the point.....If someone is bigger?  Does this mean I lose automatic?

In your sparring class does the BIG guy always win? In a real fight did you see only the bigger guys win?   It heips to have a bigger size?

Size does play role....but in martial arts we learn to defend our selves against bigger and larger attackers.  Why?  Because there is a chance you can win?

 Most rapist are larger than the women they attack?  Yet many women have survive by fighting back....lots do not either...BUT they all should fight back!

You believe fighting is the only answer?  I believe there are other ways to win!

Smaller people know a big six foot man with huge body and muscles will be difficult to fight back with?  But it doesn't mean to give up?  There will always be a chance to win!

Principle of war is to win?  NO rules: guns, knives,baseball bats, rocks anything can be use against you? Best is to avoid.....

I guess my point of view defers from yours..............Aloha


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## still learning (Sep 24, 2007)

Hello,  If one is ever attack?  .....One should use whatever they can for a weapon to fight back with....pen, pencil, rocks ,sticks,car keys.....THERE is NO rules for a street fight.

To think only your fist? ,knees,elbows,feet ,head, is all you need ? Good Luck?

People that go hiking in bear country....know they cannot our run or fight a bear one on one!  Many  of the hikers carry pepper spray in the large cans.  Why?  the size of the bear and its muscle will rip any man apart. Pepper spray will make the bear run away.

How do you handle bears or larger/bigger people when fighting for your life?  Use weapons? or go for tarkets than can give you a chance to survive.

I have notice smaller guys usually out runs the larger size people? NOT always? ................run forest run..........Aloha


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## still learning (Sep 24, 2007)

Hello, One more thing.....NO matter what your size, no matter larger your muscules....NO matter how tuff your are?

If you get tired before the other person....exhausted....and weaker?  Out of breath?   because you could not catch that person who is dodging, bobbing, weaving, moving away everytime you tried to get close?

Will size matter? If you are exhausted? 

Principle of war?  learn to make the enemy weaker...take the food and water away, make them stay awake all night on guard,learn to injury many attacker instead of killing them (takes more work to care for them).
MAKE THEM TIRED

Lions take on larger animals that could kill them.....they win by tiring out the larger animal.

.....All this is making me tried too.....good night.....and Aloha


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## still learning (Sep 24, 2007)

Hello Kenpojujitysu?   What happens when you get old?  Will size matter when you are over 65 years old?

Principle of war is not all about MASS? and power?  and Size?

Young people can win....and old people can win.....sometimes but using your brains?  NOT muscles..........everyone has weakness....Aloha


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## stone_dragone (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> ...but the average person can destroy anyone!.....with proper training!



But at what point in training does the average person cease to average?


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## KenpoDave (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello Kenpojujitysu? What happens when you get old? Will size matter when you are over 65 years old?
> 
> Principle of war is not all about MASS? and power? and Size?


 
LOL.  MASS was *one* of the principles.  Seriously, read the whole article!


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

KenpoDave said:


> LOL. MASS was *one* of the principles. Seriously, read the whole article!


 
Thank you.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> You believe fighting is the only answer? I believe there are other ways to win!


 
We're at a sticking point that you don't seem to get.  I don't believe fighting is the only answer.  The entire article is about how I train for WHEN it is time to fight.  I grew up in Baltimore, MD, USA.  My hometown is known for violence and homicide (we have unfortunately lead the nation in murders, aggravated assualts and other violent crime for years) and I spent much of my life in the worst parts.  There are times where a fight IS HAPPENING or you will be hurt or killed, period.  That's the harsh reality of some environments.  All this talk about avoidance and other options is great...but, it is not always possible in the real world, period.  Also all this talk about size being irrelevant is simple put, ridiculous.  The bigger the adversary the better you have to be to best them.  Anyone that doesn't know that hasn't been in any confrontations..that's common "street" knowledge.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, If one is ever attack? .....One should use whatever they can for a weapon to fight back with....pen, pencil, rocks ,sticks,car keys.....THERE is NO rules for a street fight.
> 
> To think only your fist? ,knees,elbows,feet ,head, is all you need ? Good Luck?
> 
> ...


 
What are you talking about? At what point did I mention rules and no weapons?  and I also explicitly mentioned weapons of man made design..meaning rocks, sticks, guns, knives and other improvised weapons.  You didn't even read the entire article it seems.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, One more thing.....NO matter what your size, no matter larger your muscules....NO matter how tuff your are?
> 
> If you get tired before the other person....exhausted....and weaker? Out of breath? because you could not catch that person who is dodging, bobbing, weaving, moving away everytime you tried to get close?
> 
> ...


 
I already mentioned conditioning earlier, are you reading the posts you're replying to or just spamming this thread?


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello Kenpojujitysu? What happens when you get old? Will size matter when you are over 65 years old?
> 
> Principle of war is not all about MASS? and power? and Size?
> 
> Young people can win....and old people can win.....sometimes but using your brains? NOT muscles..........everyone has weakness....Aloha


 
Read the whole article.  Everything you keep bringing up like it's a grand revelation that I'm unaware of is addressed later in the article.


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## stone_dragone (Sep 25, 2007)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:


> We're at a sticking point that you don't seem to get.  I don't believe fighting is the only answer.  The entire article is about how I train for WHEN it is time to fight.  I grew up in Baltimore, MD, USA.  My hometown is known for violence and homicide (we have unfortunately lead the nation in murders, aggravated assualts and other violent crime for years) and I spent much of my life in the worst parts.  There are times where a fight IS HAPPENING or you will be hurt or killed, period.  That's the harsh reality of some environments.  All this talk about avoidance and other options is great...but, it is not always possible in the real world, period.  Also all this talk about size being irrelevant is simple put, ridiculous.  The bigger the adversary the better you have to be to best them.  Anyone that doesn't know that hasn't been in any confrontations..that's common "street" knowledge.




If I recall correctly, Baltimore is so known for violence that the only TV show that has been in based in Baltimore in recent years is one called HOMICIDE!

Sorry...things were getting a bit angry and serious...


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> If I recall correctly, Baltimore is so known for violence that the only TV show that has been in based in Baltimore in recent years is one called HOMICIDE!
> 
> Sorry...things were getting a bit angry and serious...


 
:rofl:

The sad part here is that some of the guys treat that as a badge of honor.  I'm like, guys we're dying so much here the only show about our city is called homicide! and they call the place Baltimorgue and Bulletmore, Murderland.

"Baltimore - where the cost of living is going up and the chance of living is going down."


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## still learning (Sep 25, 2007)

Hello, Your journey is your own.....each look at martial arts training in different ways.

Each of us had many different experiences,  and differ ways of growing up.

These are only MY opinions,  and was hoping you would see things from another point of view?  The good thing of this site is we can learn and share and differ in our comments and opinions

Aloha and Mahalo for the debate..........


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 25, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, Your journey is your own.....each look at martial arts training in different ways.
> 
> Each of us had many different experiences, and differ ways of growing up.
> 
> ...


 
My issue...and yes I do have an issue...is that your "point of view" included many incorrect assumptions of what my "point of view" is that would have been clarified by you reading the entire article instead of keying on the 1st section alone.

Salute and all the best in your training.


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## still learning (Sep 25, 2007)

Hello, I did reread what you wrote....I think I may have misunderstood some of the things?


 OK... What you did talk about is NOTHING NEW...those idea's have been around for a long time.

Technques and tactic's you mention is for fighting....but a small part of the principle of war.

There are more people in this world who NEVER, ever got into a physcial fight.  and won! ....many times.

Look in your own neighbor hood....I don't think everyone adult,mother,father,children,cousin,friends all NEEDED to fight physcial to suvivie in your home town. Why did many NOT need to fight? or fight back?  Awarenes and Avoidance...being smarter and wiser!

Ego's and pride do get people into more fights.

I like the story of a Akido master in a bathroom and approach by a robber who want his money. The akido master knew he could hurt this person badly...instead he ask the robber " If you need money?  I will loan to you?...the robber got confuse and walk out.

"Winning without physcial fighting."

How many of your fights could have ended another way?  every situtions have many solutions....the wiser ones...will win without fighting and better yet get the other person to become his friend.

Most fights end up with some kind of revenge?  hense the fighting nevers ends.

Why do many countries still fight/hate each? for wars that happen hundreds of years ago...like Greece and Turkey, and many others?  Revenge and hate

Will the Iraq's and Iran like us now?  or could have settle this another way?   (people still believe "eye for eye")

Take the "eyes" away...one will not see the right things.

Before martial art training, I believe in fighting.....many of my Sensi's and Instructors taught me another way of looking at our training and it's purpose.

This is what I came to realize...martial arts is developing our bodies and mind to build confidence in oneself.

Thru this confidence one builds a humbleness, kindness ,honesty, trueful,caring person.  We do not change over night and our self development does not make us perfect.  Each person grows at his own rate.  ....hense - STILL LEARNING.

Thru this NEW strenght....AWARENESS AND AVOIDING FIGHTS IS THE GOAL WE SHOULD TRY TO ACHEIVE!

We, including myself is NOT perfect: Winning without fighting is the best way to win.

Principle of wars.....is this the way?

Aloha<

PS: I know there will be times others will use force against us and we need to defend our selves. (this is not a perfect world.)


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 26, 2007)

Three things.

1) I never mentioned anything as being new, again you're assuming stuff instead of just reading what is there.

2) War IS the actual fight..whether it be through combat, attrition, etc. it is still the actual conflict...not the precursors or aftermath which is what you're posting about.

3) You're missing the point entirely about this being only about when there is a need to fight (not that there is always a need to fight) and still posting about morals and avoidance, as you have been. Let it go, I agree with your points about morals, avoidance, character, etc.....but....you're posting about about a completely seperate topic from the original post. How about starting a new thread on morals, avoidance and character building as a means to lessen the need to fight? I'll be happy to contribute.

salute.


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## SL4Drew (Sep 26, 2007)

James, did you crap in his bran flakes or something?
:toilclaw:


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 26, 2007)

SL4Drew said:


> James, did you crap in his bran flakes or something?
> :toilclaw:


 
Nah....apparently somewhere I posted that fighting is the first and only answer, the bigger guy always wins and that everything in my article is new revelations and the second coming of the bible.  I'm just still trying to figure out where I posted it...because it clearly wasn't this thread.


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## still learning (Sep 26, 2007)

Hello, Your right and I was reading between the lines and looking at what you were saying, and saw different things here.  "I apologize."

In the principles of war?  Could there be different levels of fighting?

Example:  example if fighting someone, level 1 is to escape,walk or run away,

2: To control the person, hopefully NO gets hurt or injury? To stop the fight from going on and on.

3: To end the fight by destroying: injuries to other person(s), or end their life?
4: any combintions of these can happen in all levels.

Because it depends on who you are fighting?

Would you agree ...these are some of the principle of WAR?


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## stone_dragone (Sep 26, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, Your right and I was reading between the lines and looking at what you were saying, and saw different things here.  "I apologize."
> 
> In the principles of war?  Could there be different levels of fighting?
> 
> ...



While I would personally agree that what_ still learning_ lists are excellent examples of principles of personal combat (which is, in fact, a microcosm of war on the grander scale), the issue remains that the "Principles of War" are a specific set of 9 principles used by the United States military to train its leaders for visualizing the battlespace and conceptualizing their combat plans.

To add anything to this list would be the same as creating Heian Rokudan or Heian Shichidan...although the creator might have put alot of thought into the creation, to say that "They are Heian's aren't they?" would be just false.

I realize that if one doesn't practice the Heian series or even know about them, this argument just went straight to hell...


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 27, 2007)

still learning said:


> Hello, Your right and I was reading between the lines and looking at what you were saying, and saw different things here. "I apologize."
> 
> In the principles of war? Could there be different levels of fighting?
> 
> ...


 
Yes, this reminds me of a post I made previously regarding my conflict resolutions cycle and my 1-2-3-4-5 of Strategy.  This thought process was a precursor of sorts to my thought process presented in this article.  It is as follows:

1-2-3-4-5 of strategy

1 - starting position standing

2 - methods of attack
- striking
- grappling

3 - phases
- standing disengaged
- standing engaged
- ground engaged

4 - basic ground classifications (by knockdown or takedown)
- 'controlled' belly to belly
- 'controlling' belly to belly
- 'controlled' belly to back
- 'controlling' belly to back

5 - conflict resolutions cycle (in order)
- escape
- immobilize
- hurt (pain without injury)
- incapacitate (KO,maim, or injure)
- kill

The Principles of War approach is only for when the escape option isn't available.  The principles involved and my approach give me a clear, concise and effective path to accomplishing the other 4 options in the conflict resolution cycle should escape fail.


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