# Ninniku Dojo 05/12/2012



## Guy Preston (Dec 29, 2012)

Hi guys,

This is a short video I made after class on the 5th Dec to promote the dojo on YouTube. 

If any of you looked at my website from my profile you will have already seen this...

Thanks

Guy


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## Carol (Dec 29, 2012)

Very nice clip.  Your students move so fluidly!

Just curious....I don't recall seeing the hakama worn in other schools...although I am not well versed in jujutsu.  Is that a prt of your lineage?  Just curious


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## Guy Preston (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks, they'll love to hear that, they've only been training since May.

If you look at traditional Jujutsu schools you'll see lots of Hakama. Nowadays it's usually only Dan grades who wear Hakama in the west, but this is a modern trend. A Gi without Hakama would have been considered like underclothes.

We wear them in our dojo to keep the old traditions, and distinguish us from other clubs around, and BJJ, etc...


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## Tez3 (Dec 30, 2012)

At seminars I've been to both the Jujutsu and the Aikidoka wear Hakamas. I've seen karateka wear them too.


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## Guy Preston (Dec 30, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> At seminars I've been to both the Jujutsu and the Aikidoka wear Hakamas. I've seen karateka wear them too.



The Aikidoka are doing the same, I've read before that Morihei Ueshiba would refuse to teach people not wearing Hakama, I'm not sure the exact quote but in a story I read he asked a student 'how dare you come to take instruction in your underwear?' Or something close to that.

In Aikido again Hakama often denotes rank these days, either Dan grades or senior kyu grades wearing them, but the above shows this wasn't always the case... I think it changes from club to club depending on the dojo cho or oganisation's preference.

In our dojo students wear Hakama as soon as they can afford to buy one, it has absolutely no connection to grade or skill whatsoever.

Plus I have to admit, as well as keeping tradition and distinguishing us from other clubs - I also really like the way they look


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## Yondanchris (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks for sharing! I wished more people shared videos!


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## Tez3 (Dec 30, 2012)

Yondanchris said:


> Thanks for sharing! I wished more people shared videos!



One on how to wash and iron a Hakama would be good!!


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## Carol (Dec 30, 2012)

Ninniku Dojo said:


> The Aikidoka are doing the same, I've read before that Morihei Ueshiba would refuse to teach people not wearing Hakama, I'm not sure the exact quote but in a story I read he asked a student 'how dare you come to take instruction in your underwear?' Or something close to that.
> 
> In Aikido again Hakama often denotes rank these days, either Dan grades or senior kyu grades wearing them, but the above shows this wasn't always the case... I think it changes from club to club depending on the dojo cho or oganisation's preference.
> 
> ...




Thats where I have usually seen them, aikido and also the JSAs.   It is a very elegant look...plus the flared legs make for interesting tactics as they can conceal some body movements that might clue another person in to ones move.


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## Guy Preston (Dec 30, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> One on how to wash and iron a Hakama would be good!!



I cheat!!!

Easiest way I've found is to mark where each pleat reaches the bottom, then work from that each time when you iron...

I've known people to sew in the seems, but I think it alters the look.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 2, 2013)

Ninniku Dojo said:


> Thanks, they'll love to hear that, they've only been training since May.
> 
> If you look at traditional Jujutsu schools you'll see lots of Hakama. Nowadays it's usually only Dan grades who wear Hakama in the west, but this is a modern trend. A Gi without Hakama would have been considered like underclothes.
> 
> We wear them in our dojo to keep the old traditions, and distinguish us from other clubs around, and BJJ, etc...



Just to clarify this, the wearing of hakama to denote dan-grade rank is really an Aikido thing. The story was that Ueshiba expected everyone to wear one, but with WWII there was a shortage of material, so only the higher ranking students wore them, and that has continued to today. As far as "traditional", that's really not entirely the case either. Yes, the gi was essentially a form of hard-wearing outfit sometimes used as a form of underclothes to a kimono or other regular wear (including hakama), but that doesn't mean that every system wore hakama for training. In fact, in a lot of the more "traditional" systems (talking Koryu here), hakama are only worn regularly for demonstrations, with more "regular" gi being worn for training, or another form of plain outfit referred to as samue. It's actually the more modern systems of Kendo, Seitei Iaido, Seitei Jo and Aikido, as well as the Genbukan and Jinenkan in the Ninjutsu organisations where the wearing of hakama for training is the norm (to absolutely clarify, a number of Koryu do wear them for training, but the majority actually don't).

So while it can seem traditional, it really isn't. For the record. Especially not an "old" one. It'd be like expecting combat training to be done in a suit, really.


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## Guy Preston (Jan 2, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> Just to clarify this, the wearing of hakama to denote dan-grade rank is really an Aikido thing. The story was that Ueshiba expected everyone to wear one, but with WWII there was a shortage of material, so only the higher ranking students wore them, and that has continued to today. As far as "traditional", that's really not entirely the case either. Yes, the gi was essentially a form of hard-wearing outfit sometimes used as a form of underclothes to a kimono or other regular wear (including hakama), but that doesn't mean that every system wore hakama for training. In fact, in a lot of the more "traditional" systems (talking Koryu here), hakama are only worn regularly for demonstrations, with more "regular" gi being worn for training, or another form of plain outfit referred to as samue. It's actually the more modern systems of Kendo, Seitei Iaido, Seitei Jo and Aikido, as well as the Genbukan and Jinenkan in the Ninjutsu organisations where the wearing of hakama for training is the norm (to absolutely clarify, a number of Koryu do wear them for training, but the majority actually don't).
> 
> So while it can seem traditional, it really isn't. For the record. Especially not an "old" one. It'd be like expecting combat training to be done in a suit, really.




In the beginning of Katsuyuki Kondo's Daito Ryu Ikkajo Series Video/DVD - he removes his hakama to help show some footwork, at the point he does this, he apologises for removing his hakama, as 'I think the word he uses implies' it is improper...

As Chris mentioned above, it's really horses for courses, some do, some don't - depends what you are looking at...

While Aikido is relatively modern, I think Ueshiba's stance on Hakama would stem from further back in his experience. As some of his lineage goes back to the same source as Kondo, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it was something linked to Takeda Sokaku, and his preferences (if he insisted, it would make sense Ueshiba may do the same, as would Tokimune) - although that's only speculation, as I have not seen or heard anything to confirm this - If anyone has any info that either proves/or disproves that thought, I'd be grateful to hear?

We choose to, but as above it has nothing to do with rank/skill - some students train in just their Gi, but others train in Hakama once they are sure it's something they wish to continue and have the money available to buy one..


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## Chris Parker (Jan 2, 2013)

There are a few ideas that are attributed to Ueshiba as regards hakama, some are probably true, some others are possibly apocryphal.... There is a popular thought that he wanted everyone to wear it as he considered it the proper wear of the samurai, and was very much of the idea that he was preserving samurai culture and ideals (whether or not he was is another question...). A part of that is the idea that each of the seven pleats were symbolic of the seven virtues of Bushido, for example. As far as that being more part of his other training, though, it's possible that it came from Takeda, although I wouldn't say that means that it's actually an old tradition either. I don't think Daito Ryu predates Takeda, though.

But, as with all things in this area, it's very much up to the individual system itself. Different systems, even those that wear hakama, will tie them in different ways, or some will wear an uwa-obi on the outside, others will only use kaku obi underneath the hakama, sometimes colour will be specified, other times it's very much personal choice, length can be different from one system to another, and more. But, again, the majority of systems tend to only wear them for Embu (demonstrations)... but, as that's how most people see these arts, it gets assumed that they're worn all the time, and that it's traditional. It's really not. Unless, of course, it is for that system.

And, just cause this has been bugging me, the "training in a suit" metaphor above isn't really accurate... it's better to think of it like doing army training in your Class-A Dress Uniform.... that only gets pulled our for public or official use.


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## Guy Preston (Jan 2, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> There are a few ideas that are attributed to Ueshiba as regards hakama, some are probably true, some others are possibly apocryphal.... There is a popular thought that he wanted everyone to wear it as he considered it the proper wear of the samurai, and was very much of the idea that he was preserving samurai culture and ideals (whether or not he was is another question...). A part of that is the idea that each of the seven pleats were symbolic of the seven virtues of Bushido, for example. As far as that being more part of his other training, though, it's possible that it came from Takeda, although I wouldn't say that means that it's actually an old tradition either. I don't think Daito Ryu predates Takeda, though.
> 
> But, as with all things in this area, it's very much up to the individual system itself. Different systems, even those that wear hakama, will tie them in different ways, or some will wear an uwa-obi on the outside, others will only use kaku obi underneath the hakama, sometimes colour will be specified, other times it's very much personal choice, length can be different from one system to another, and more. But, again, the majority of systems tend to only wear them for Embu (demonstrations)... but, as that's how most people see these arts, it gets assumed that they're worn all the time, and that it's traditional. It's really not. Unless, of course, it is for that system.
> 
> And, just cause this has been bugging me, the "training in a suit" metaphor above isn't really accurate... it's better to think of it like doing army training in your Class-A Dress Uniform.... that only gets pulled our for public or official use.



Thanks Chris,

The same as much that comes up when discussing ryu, most things come down to the personal preferences of one of the soke - no reason why Aikido wouldn't have been the same when Ueshiba set it up.

Not sure what your thoughts on the 7 pleats are? I know some people attribute this to the 7 virtues of Bushido, but my understanding is that the Hakama pre dates Bushido, as this concept was introduced in more peaceful times rather than in the warring periods of Japan's history - and that the pleats are more around movement, mounting horses, the pad at the back also being partially for this reason - I'm not sure the source of this though as it's a long time since I read it - Can you add any clarification?

My understanding of Daito Ryu is that it does pre date Takeda, but the name doesn't - as he brought all before (family systems I think)under the Daito Ryu umbrella - I haven't trained in a Daito Ryu lineage though, so can't say for sure...


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## Chris Parker (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi Guy,

My take on the seven pleats is that there are seven pleats. That's it, really. Now, if a particular system, or instructor, wishes to attribute something more to that, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it has anything to do with the design or development of the article themselves (and, for the record, you're right about the development of hakama. They were essentially an old form of chaps for riding horses, with early versions being made of leather and other tougher fabrics, rather than the lighter cottons etc seen later. But, in the same way that jeans [demin] began as a cheap, hard-wearing material for mining workers and other labouring people, but developed into a part of modern fashion, with patterns, different stitching, lengths, designs etc, hakama also developed by using different fabrics and colours/patterns into a major staple of Japanese fashion).

As far as Daito Ryu is concerned, it's obvious that Takeda was trained in something... his weapons training, particularly Ono-ha Itto Ryu was quite well known... but I don't think it was anything that would be considered Daito Ryu. I really think that is entirely his creation, based on his experiences, experiments (there's quite a bit to support that side of things), beliefs, and so on.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 3, 2013)

Tez3 said:


> One on how to wash and iron a Hakama would be good!!



While I'm back for a bit, just for you Irene...






Love this clip...


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