# Weapons in Taekwondo???



## Karate_Warrior (Apr 30, 2006)

Hello.
Does Taekwondo use weapons?


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## hong kong fooey (Apr 30, 2006)

in all the tae kwon doe classes I have taken there have been no weapons. because TAE KWON DOE if I am correct is a open hand art which means you don't use weapons


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## Henderson (Apr 30, 2006)

hong kong fooey said:
			
		

> ...because TAE KWON DOE if I am correct is a open hand art which means you don't use weapons


 
Well...I am a karate-ka, so I do not know if Tae Kwon Do encompasses weapons. However, just because it's an "open hand art" does not mean there are no weapons. Afterall, the words karate-do literally translate as "empty hand way" (Japanese-I won't delve in to the China hand interpretation) and we all know weapons are a big part of traditional karate in most cases.

With much respect,

Frank


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## Karate_Warrior (Apr 30, 2006)

Thanks:ultracool


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## Henderson (Apr 30, 2006)

Karate_Warrior said:
			
		

> Thanks:ultracool


do itashimashite!:asian:


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## TigerWoman (Apr 30, 2006)

Maybe someone on MT knows what Korean weapons are taught. Our dojang teaches nunchaku, sai, and bo which are, I believe, all originate from Indonesia.  I am trying to learn more about escrima-28" cane sticks as they seem to be a more practical and useful weapon.  TW


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## Last Fearner (Apr 30, 2006)

Karate_Warrior said:
			
		

> Hello.
> Does Taekwondo use weapons?


 
Karate_Warrior,

I know you are relatively new to the Martial Talk forum, so I say hello and welcome to you. :wavey: 

I have noticed by your other posts (I usually do a little back-search on people before I reply so that I get to know them better), it seems that you have been looking to begin Martial Art training, and are seeking information on many subjects. I think this is good!  

I noticed you have asked questions about Taekwondo, Hapkido, Karate, and Kung-fu. You seem interested in "jumping" and "weapons." I wonder if there is something specific you are looking for? Your profile contains very little information. Perhaps you would be willing to share some things to help others help you. You mentioned you have difficulty with English, where do you live, and what is your native language? How old are you? Are you a male or female? For what purpose are you seeking Martial Art education? If you do not wish to share any of your personal info, then just respond by saying, "no comment," and I will understand. 

As to your question about weapons, assuming you mean "external weapons", here is my reply (I would use a little humor to go along with my answer, but some people misinterpret my humor, and since you are a beginner, I do not want to offend you, or scare you off!).

Like most Martial Art systems, Taekwondo uses both open and closed hands as well as a variety of other strikes. As for the term "empty hand" commonly associated with "Karate-do," and which really applies to all Martial Art training, it means that we are *capable* of effectively defending ourselves with no external weapons. The mind, the body, and the skill are the weapons that we utilize.

However, this does not mean that external weapons are *excluded* from our training, or options in real-life self defense. In modern times, people are taught to grab whatever is useful to injur or deter an attacker (For example: car keys, a comb, pepper spray, a belt and or belt buckle, a purse, a knife, a stick, a tire iron, a hot cup of coffee, etc., etc.).

Furthermore, if you interpret "Taekwon-do" as being General Choi Hong Hi's methods of self defense, then consider that his original textbook contains a section on how to defend against various weapons. It is my opinion that one cannot train very well against a weapon, unless you understand how that weapon works. The better you and your partner are with using each weapon, the more success you will have if confronted with an armed attacker.

If you interpret "Taekwondo" to mean the ancient forms of self defense from Korea's history (as I do), then consider that villagers and soldiers alike, who trained in Korean Martial Art, used weapons. From rocks stockpiled at the edge of villages for throwing at enemies, to staff, spear, swords (Hae Dong Gumdo), and who knows what else, external weapons are a part of the Martial Art, but we do not rely on them. 

Personally, I believe basic weapons should be a part of all Taekwondo beginner curriculum, and integral to advanced, and Black Belt training. In reality, it is up to the individual instructor (or organization), as to whether or not they learn the skills themselves, offer it as optional training, or require it as part of self defense knowledge.

I have been around many Taekwondo Dojang in the U.S. and in Korea, and most have included some degree of weapons training, while others have a complete program, as I do, from staff to Katana, and anything in between (I also train in firearms, but that's a more indepth topic).

My answer is that Taekwondo is a name for the Martial Art way of life, which includes *any* means of successful self defense, including using traditional, modern, or unusual external weapons.

I hope you find what you are looking for, and begin your training soon!  
CM D. J. Eisenhart


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## phlaw (May 1, 2006)

I have been involved in TKD since 1992 and in this time I have had training in Nunchaku, Staff, Short Staff, Double STicks, Sword, 3 sectional staff, sai, and we have even used throwing stars & knives in the past.


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## tshadowchaser (May 1, 2006)

My old TKD instructor never taught weapons until he saw other locale Karate schools teachingg them , At that time he went and learned a 2nd art and taught the weapons from that art in his TKD classes.

He had alway said there whee no weapons in TKD except the homan body (to him that ment the feet)


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## LeiDren (May 3, 2006)

My master let us buy our nunchaku at green stripe, but he's not going to teach us any weapons until we reach black belt. He's going to teach bo, nunchaku, and bokken, and he's also mentioned taking courses in Kali.


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## DuneViking (May 3, 2006)

Greetings,

Traditional TKD does not use weapons. Our instructors who  teach have learned them from outside sources. There are also other Korean arts that use weapons.


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## Gemini (May 3, 2006)

TKD is an open hand art that many instructors teach in conjunction with some type of weapons training. There's another thread on the topic Here posted by mystic warrior not too long ago. Good reading!


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## Jimi (May 11, 2006)

Tae Kwon Do as it was named around the 1940's & 50's, is not an art that teaches weapons (Hand & Foot Art). Nor is the term TKD or it's forms centurys old. For centurys Koreans have trained and fought utilizing body weapons as well as hand to hand weapons, such as Hwa Rang Do & Kumdo, which are more of all around systems, TKD is not. Other Korean Arts do teach weapons such as Kumdo etc.., but just because a Korean system uses weapons does not mean that Tae Kwon Do encompasses weapons as well. That's like saying because I went to a Boxing Gym where some Wrestlers also train and shared, that Boxing is a Grappling Art. Commercial schools in the states have tended toward teaching such weapons because the public wants it. Sai & NunChaku are not TKD weapons no matter what the rank of the Instructor. It is very modern of TKD schools to adopt such weapons training, but the fact is TKD is an emptyhand art. Anyone telling you Sai & NunChaku are TKD weapons is trying to sell you something. Not that Korean Systems don't encompass weapons training, just not TKD as it was formed 50-60 years ago. Not bashing TKD, just the facts. I dislike seeing someone who has only trained a year and a half in a commercial TKD school and teaches a NunChaku seminar with only the understanding of the weapon he got from Kung Fu Theater and his sisters majorette baton twirls. Fillipino Kali Stick fighting is a good weapons systems you also see along side of TKD in schools, that does not make sticks a TKD weapon. End Rant. PEACE


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## Andrew Green (May 11, 2006)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> Our dojang teaches nunchaku, sai, and bo which are, I believe, all originate from Indonesia.



Japan, or more specifically Okinawa.

They exist in other places as well, but that is where the Korean styles borrowed them from (even the names you are using are Japanese  )


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## bobster_ice (May 11, 2006)

Karate_Warrior said:
			
		

> Hello.
> Does Taekwondo use weapons?


 
In TKD we sometimes use sticks and do weapon techniques. sometimes we also learn how to disarm opponents who have guns, sticks and knifes etc. TKD may me an open hand art but we still use weapons on the rare occasion,

Bobby.


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## Jimi (May 11, 2006)

bobster_ice said:
			
		

> In TKD we sometimes use sticks and do weapon techniques. sometimes we also learn how to disarm opponents who have guns, sticks and knifes etc. TKD may me an open hand art but we still use weapons on the rare occasion,
> 
> Bobby.


I suppose that the Kukkiwon has tested their Black Belts on these weapon skills and has their own requirements for sticks and stuff. I think not, TKD in the states draws from a broader range of martial training influences, any training someone gives you in weapons and is only certified to teach any branch of TKD has learned it from another source. Still, they may be compitent techniques, but not of TKD origin. I would sooner belive TKD teaching defenses against a weapon IE a stick or staff, that makes sense. Saying to defend against a weapon means you know how to use it properly does not make sense. I reiterate, someone only certified to teach TKD and professes to teach weapons is either lying or they learned it from another system and give credit for that knowledge to TKD because they only have TKD certification or don't have certification in the art the weapons training truely comes from. People who belive TKD encompasses training in Sai, NunChaku or LOL even Katana believe in the Ninja Turles too. If an instructor has certification in TKD and Certification in Kobudo, that instructor can teach the weapons, but he still can not call them TKD weapons techniques, it's BS. If you train weapons in TKD on the rare occasion, those weapons aspects are not TKD, but the defense against such weapons like, slip the stick strike and roundhouse kick the groin then the head, I agree, that is TKD. I do not agree with, slip the stick strike,trap the weapon hand and outside snake disarm and follow up with stick strikes 1 thru 9, that's FMA. I don't see why people want to believe in the ancient TKD weapons techniques, they don't exist.


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## aplonis (May 11, 2006)

By way of example, in the various individual classes grouped together under Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do Association, weapons are not necessarily a part of required, formal training.

However, many a student will take up some weapon of preference and learn whatever there is to learn of it from fellow students who have trained in that weapon somewhere else. Or a particular teacher may favor a weapon and teach that as an auxilliary topic. Mine teaches the cane. I also practice a little with the bo and the hanbo. But I too have grown to prefer the cane. But we have students that practice the sai, have even adapted TKD forms to includ the sai, etc.

Our GM, Prof. Monte Beghtol, formally endorses eclecticism as an essential aspect of practical self-defense. And we are taught elements from jujutsu, aikido, etc. 

So it will depend upon the class you join, what is their particular doctrine. In WMTKD we are taught "traditional" TKD, but not only that, the TKD has been left strongly traditional. But other good things have been added in. It makes the whole ever so much more interesting. I am sure you can find a class somewhere, TKD or otherwise, with similar eclectic attitudes. And there you might study, in addition, any weapon you might wish.

Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do


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## Last Fearner (May 11, 2006)

To Mr. "Jimi"

Sir, after reading several of your posts on other threads at MT, including the "Weapons in Karate" thread, and the Kenpo lineage about your "Black Belt gift," it is not real clear to me what your level of training, and expertise is. However, it is clear that it is not in Taekwondo. To that, I respectfully disagree with what you have stated here on this thread.



			
				Jimi said:
			
		

> Tae Kwon Do as it was named around the 1940's & 50's, is not an art that teaches weapons (Hand & Foot Art).


 
No art "teaches" weapons. The instructors of the art either teach weapons or they do not. If a Taekwondo Instructor teaches weapons, he/she is either trained to do so, or not. If they are trained, the question that seems to be pertinent is if that training could have come from a Korean lineage. Some specific weapons did not exist in early times, so everyone has to learn about it as it develops.  However, Korean Martial Art does have a history of its own weapons - not borrowed from other recent Martial Art influences.



			
				Jimi said:
			
		

> For centurys Koreans have trained and fought utilizing body weapons as well as hand to hand weapons, such as Hwa Rang Do & Kumdo, which are more of all around systems, TKD is not.


 
The assertion that Taekwondo is not an "all around system" is false, and stems from either the lack of a full understanding of the Korean Martial Art, or a narrow view that the term "Taekwondo" is the same as General Choi Hong Hi's modern "Taekwon-do." They are not the same.



			
				Jimi said:
			
		

> Not that Korean Systems don't encompass weapons training, just not TKD as it was formed 50-60 years ago. Not bashing TKD, just the facts.


 
The "facts" is a good idea - - you just don't have enough facts. General Choi suggested the name change of "Taekwon-do" in 1955. It took many years before it was officially adopted, but was never fully accepted by all Korean Martial Art instructors. Choi's later attachment of the term "Taekwon-do" to his system of Oh Do Kwan limited many people's perception of what "Korean Taekwondo" is. The Korean government chose the name, by official government order, to represent all of Korean Martial Art herritage.

So, to admit that Korean Martial Art historically contained weapons, is to acknowledge that the full definition of "Korean Taekwondo" also includes weapons. Many modern practitioners never learned weapons, thus many modern Taekwondo schools don't contain the full curriculum. Therefore, many "outsiders" and non-Taekwondoists believe that it is separate or is not a part of Taekwondo. This would be a misconception on the part of the amateur.



			
				Jimi said:
			
		

> I dislike seeing someone who has only trained a year and a half in a commercial TKD school and teaches a NunChaku seminar with only the understanding of the weapon he got from Kung Fu Theater and his sisters majorette baton twirls. Fillipino Kali Stick fighting is a good weapons systems you also see along side of TKD in schools, that does not make sticks a TKD weapon. End Rant. PEACE


 
Mr. Jimi, I agree with you here, sir. I do not like seeing someone with only a year and a half training proclaiming to know much of anything about the Martial Art or weapons. However, I also don't like to see someone who is apparently not a Taekwondo student, let alone a Taekwondo Black Belt, or Taekwondo Instructor, or Taekwondo Master Instructor telling others what Taekwondo is or is not and whether or not it contains weapons.

I have trained for 30 years in Taekwondo (teaching for 28). I have been to Korea and studied the history, culture, and weapons. The many old Korean Grandmasters that I have learned first-hand from passed on knowledge of ancient skills and weapons that you won't find in your books, conversations with friends, or Kukkiwon promotion requirements.

The original question in this thread was:


			
				Karate Warrior said:
			
		

> Hello.
> Does Taekwondo use weapons?


 
The answer to this question is that practitioners of Taekwondo have always had weapons as part of their curriculum, and some of these weapons are indigenous to Korea. Some specific weapons (sai, nunchakku, etc) originate from other countries and time periods, but Taekwondo Masters are open to adapting them into training as each weapon is learned new by anyone the first time around. The concept of weapons with Martial Art training is not exclusive to certain "Arts" nor certain countries. Historically, there have been weapons in Korea, and Korean Martial Artists have always practiced to become proficient with those weapons. Modern Taekwondo Masters should be no exception - - just be sure to get trained by a certifed Taekwondo "weapons instructor."

Thank you.
Chief Master D. J. Eisenhart


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## Gemini (May 11, 2006)

I think the disconnect comes from different understandings of what is meant by Taekwondo. Because your definition encompasses a great deal more over a much larger span of time than that generally understood as Taekwondo, it can't be avoided. When referencing Taekwondo, it would probably help if address the answer based on who asked the question. If the question is asked by someone with your understanding of Korean history, there's going to be a different answer than if asked by someone who's definition of Taekwondo is the relatively modern art designated that name in 1955 (officially 1962?) 

As it was explained to me, my understanding is different because we are talking about two different things. My Sabumnim, born and raised in Korea, practicing Taekwondo since his early childhood has been very clear about what the art of Taekwondo consists of. Taekwondo is an open handed art. We also practice HaeDongKumdo. But it's not part of the Taekwondo curriculum. We practice kumdo (kendo), but again, it's its own art. Though many schools incorporate weapons training into their curriculum, some do not distinguish between the arts. They teach them as a single entity. My schools a bit different. We are taught three arts and it's stressed that what each art is, and what is and is not included in that art. The important thing to keep in mind here is what Taekwondo we're talking about. In this case, it's what's referred to as modern day Taekwondo.

Does that make you wrong? Of course not. Actually, I would say that your answer to that question in the past was the more accurate of the two definitions. You reference Taekwondo as an art that's been around thousands of years. What's considered modern day Taekwondo is nothing more than the tip of the needle in the history of Korean martial arts. The answer to that, I believe you more than covered above.

The important thing is to remember is your familiarity with the Korean art, culture and history is far more advanced than your average practitioner. (Certainly me) Because of that, I think it gives you a different interpretation of the question. 

Sometimes, the least important thing is the question. Maybe what the real question should be is, how do you ask the question?


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## Jimi (May 11, 2006)

Great response, I agree that if you and the Korean Government consider TKD as a blanket term for all Korean Systems, then yes TKD encompasses weapons training. If you consider the forms (Hyungs,TaeGeuks&Pawlgaes) and the wording of the name TKD (hand/foot art) in my narrow minded view, then no I do not feel TKD encompasses weapons. My lineage is not the question here, and yes I hold Black Belt rank in TKD under several umbrellas among other systems. Last Fearner, you seemed ready to belittle me for not understanding or having rank in TKD simply because a post I made refered to the fact that the first Black Belt I received was an uncertified gift, regardless that I have attained rank since then. Lighten up. My opinion should not offend you and the knowledge you Korean Instructors have given you. I'll keep my opinion about TKD to myself.


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## Last Fearner (May 11, 2006)

Jimi said:
			
		

> Last Fearner, you seemed ready to belittle me for not understanding or having rank in TKD simply because a post I made refered to the fact that the first Black Belt I received was an uncertified gift, regardless that I have attained rank since then.


 
Mr. Jimi, I did not intend for my comment about your "Black Belt Gift" to sound belittling. In fact, when I read it, I thought it was probably quite an honor, and I can understand why you would keep the belt in a special place at your home. It is unfortunate that this teacher did not live long enough to solidify the presentation, nor be able to continue to teach you. I am sorry for your loss there. Actually, I searched your profile and previous posts to try to understand where you were coming from, and what insights you might have to Taekwondo, but found nothing mentioned, although I might have missed it. Thank you for clearing up your connection somewhat.

Also, I did not mean that your viewpoint on the "recent creation" of Taekwondo is being "narrow *minded*," but rather a narrow perspective or interpretation. I interpret the definition of Taekwondo itself as either being a narrow definition attached to General Choi, or a broad definition encompassing the entire Korean Martial Art history. The Korean Grandmasters that I trained under took this point of view, and explained to me why the broad definition is the more accurate one.

Extensive research has lead me to have a deeper understanding than is available in most modern curriculum, and by the superficial appearances of poomsae, and a basic breakdown when defining the term "Tae - Kwon - Do." There is much more to the Art than meets the eye, even for those who have studied it thoroughly for a decade or two.

Anyhow, thank you for responding, and I respect your opinion about what you have learned pertaining to Taekwondo and weapons.   

Respectfully,
CM D. J. Eisenhart


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## Jimi (May 12, 2006)

Last Fearner, I believe I now have a better understanding of the term TKD in regards to refering to more than just hand and foot art. Respects to you SIR! PEACE


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## terryl965 (May 12, 2006)

Well I have train inKorea a couple of times and when we have train we haveused certain weapons is it TKD in mind yes it was tought to me by a TKD Grand Master instructor, so it is, was it invented by the Koreans no certainly not borrowed by them certainly but over the yearsa it has become part of there teachings which makes it theres in my eyes.

Last bit of info. here been training 43 years seen alot of different style out there, have borrowed some great techniques over those years, own my school and I teach TKD both Olympic and Traditional so everything I teach my students they simple know as TKD, not that it was a Karate or Kung Fu or FMA, because I do not teach those Arts, I teach TKD, they know where the weapon training came from but it is referred to TKD at my school.
Terry


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