# New Jujutsu styles founded in the 20th century



## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 7, 2005)

I am very interested to hear your opinions about new Jujutsu (and other MA) styles founded after the 1930s. I am aware that many people treat the year 1868 as the demarcation line between Koryu (old style) martial arts and the Gendai (modern arts), thus by definition Kodokan Judo is a Gendai art while Shindo Yoshin-ryu (founder 1864) is a Koryu art. However there are so many arts that was founded after the 1930s and there are many more after WWII. 

If I am not mistaken, Danzan-ryu Jujutsu was founded in early 1930s, am I correct? Hakko-ryu Jujutsu was founded in the 1930s as well. 

And in modern times (1980s) we also have people like Mr. Sato Shizuya who founded Nihon Jujutsu, Mr. Tanemura who founded the Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei and Mr. Ahso Hidetaka who does "Sports Jujutsu" in his S.A.W organization. Outside Japan we have Mr. Wally Jay who founded Small Circle Jujutsu. Some even said that the Goshin Budo Jujutsu of Mr. Kuniba was actually formulated in the USA by him in the 70s, in order to better integrate the Judo-Aikido-Jujutsu self-defense techniques  into the more mainstream Shito-ryu Karate that he teaches.

I wonder what label we must give to the 3rd generation Jujutsu (and other MA styles) which was derived from those martial arts systems created in the 1930s-1950s? Maybe "Shin Gendai Budo" will do?

I know that some people consider that any Japanese martial art created not by the Japanese is cr*p, and one very respected Koryu teacher once told me that "there are no such thing as modern Jujutsu".

However, I'd really love to hear the comments from my fellow MartialTalk members!


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## arnisador (Nov 10, 2005)

I've heard it said that there is no modern jujutsu, and that there is truly only one style of jujutsu. I don't believe either of these things. For me, Wally Jay is the best example of both of these points!


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## Korppi76 (Nov 11, 2005)

Quite new Jujutsu styles I know are:
Hokutoryu Jujutsu (1970s, from Finland) Some say this is not real jujutsu but combination of different techniques from different martial arts.

Jujutsu 2000 (from 1960 ->, from Germany) I dont know much about this one.

Liikan Jitsu, says that they are kombination of Kung fu and Jujutsu (and also influence from Kali-Escrima, Tai Ji, Ba Gwa)

I have tried first two and they seemed to work. When I compare them to Hontai Yoshin Ryu or Daito ryu they seem, how to say, maybe more modern?. More training with modern weapons (no sword etc)... well hard to explain... 
Ofcourse I have trained them very little, only few years, so I might not have get right image of them.


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## TimoS (Nov 11, 2005)

Korppi76 said:
			
		

> Quite new Jujutsu styles I know are:
> Hokutoryu Jujutsu (1970s, from Finland) Some say this is not real jujutsu but combination of different techniques from different martial arts.



Actually I think that Hokuto ryu, *by that name*, didn't come until sometime in the 90s. Before that it was Juko ryu, although mostly it was referred to only as ju-jutsu back then (I practised it for a couple of years in the late 80s)


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## TimoS (Nov 11, 2005)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> I know that some people consider that any Japanese martial art created not by the Japanese is cr*p, and one very respected Koryu teacher once told me that "there are no such thing as modern Jujutsu".



My jujutsu sensei (who is also my karate sensei) said once that without a sword you cannot understand jujutsu, so in that sense this koryu teacher is correct in saying that there is no modern jujutsu. Whether or not to call these modern styles jujutsu or something else is of course difficult question, because many (though not all) have no connection whatsoever to any koryu style, or the connection is very thin (such as the founder studied briefly some koryu style)


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## Korppi76 (Nov 11, 2005)

TimoS said:
			
		

> Actually I think that Hokuto ryu, *by that name*, didn't come until sometime in the 90s. Before that it was Juko ryu, although mostly it was referred to only as ju-jutsu back then (I practised it for a couple of years in the late 80s)


Oh yes, I think your right.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 11, 2005)

Korppi76 said:
			
		

> Quite new Jujutsu styles I know are:
> Jujutsu 2000 (from 1960 ->, from Germany) I dont know much about this one.


 
Yes, that would be Deutsche Jujutsu Verbond style from Germany. Very good modern style, they are active in JJIF tournaments.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 11, 2005)

TimoS said:
			
		

> My jujutsu sensei (who is also my karate sensei) said once that without a sword you cannot understand jujutsu, so in that sense this koryu teacher is correct in saying that there is no modern jujutsu. Whether or not to call these modern styles jujutsu or something else is of course difficult question, because many (though not all) have no connection whatsoever to any koryu style, or the connection is very thin (such as the founder studied briefly some koryu style)


 
Good points! However, I think a modern style which has provable roots to ancient Jujutsu should be considered as an authentic Jujutsu style. In USA, for example, there are many new Jujutsu systems based on Prof. Okazaki's Danzan-ryu (Prof. Jay's Small Circle is one of them). I think they're all Jujutsu. I think the same about all those styles descended from Hakko-ryu (Hakkodenshin-ryu, Kokodo-ryu etc). It's all Jujutsu. What do you think?


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## arnisador (Nov 11, 2005)

I agree. To not consider SCJJ to be true jujutsu would be a surprising conclusion.


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## JAMJTX (Nov 11, 2005)

There are a number of newer arts that should be classified as Jujutsu, even though they are Gendai.  Danzan Ryu, (1930's), Small Circle (a later off shoot of DZR), Hakko Ryu (after WWII) and Kuniba's Goshin Budo are all excellent examples.  

Kuniba began to formulate his "Goshin Budo" long before he visited the U.S.  It was just not readily accepted in Japan because he was breaking with a lot of tradition.  Americans were more open to his ideas so it caught on here.  It was eventually recognized by the AJKF as "Kuniba Ryu Goshindo".  But we still consider it to be Jujutsu and use the old name.

You will find a lot of people who think that because a style is Gendai as opposed to Koryu it should have the suffix DO instead of JUTSU.  But I disagree with that.  If it is more comabative/self-defense oriented and not so sportive or philosophical, then it should have JUTSU.


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## arnisador (Nov 11, 2005)

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> You will find a lot of people who think that because a style is Gendai as opposed to Koryu it should have the suffix DO instead of JUTSU. But I disagree with that. If it is more comabative/self-defense oriented and not so sportive or philosophical, then it should have JUTSU.



Good point, and I agree.

In addition, using 'Judo' for a non-sport Jujutsu style would be terribly confusing!


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 13, 2005)

JAMJTX said:
			
		

> You will find a lot of people who think that because a style is Gendai as opposed to Koryu it should have the suffix DO instead of JUTSU. But I disagree with that. If it is more comabative/self-defense oriented and not so sportive or philosophical, then it should have JUTSU.


 
In my country there are no strong distinction between those two. Even my teacher consider what he does as a DO form because he wants to teach self-defense but also self-improvements. That's why the Club name is Goshin Budo Club (no relations to Kuniba soke's Goshin Budo).


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 13, 2005)

Anyway I'd like to expand the list of new Jujutsu (or Jujutsu-based) styles founded in the middle of 20th century that I know of. This is to fulfill the wishes of Mr. Arnisador 

Other friends please help to expand or make corrections to this list please..I am sure I made some mistakes here and there!

OK here we go.

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (around 1920s)
Danzan-ryu (around 1930s)
Hakko-ryu (around 1930s)
Wado-ryu Jujutsu Kenpo Karate-Do (1930s)
M. Mitose's Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu (1940s)
Wally Jay's Small circle Jujutsu (1950s(?))
S. Kuniba's Goshin Budo (1960s)
A. Church's Kamishin-ryu (1960s)
Prof. Brosious's Ketsugo Ju-Jitsu (1960s)
S. Koepke's Seki-ryu (1960s)
Prof. Kirby's Budoshin (1970s)
S. Tanemura's Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei (1980s)
S. Sato's Nihon Jujutsu (1980s)
H. Ahso's Sports Jujutsu (1990s)
A. Floquet's Aiki Budo (1990s)
Gendai Goshin-ryu Jujutsu (1990s)

any additions & corrections?


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## BlackCatBonz (Nov 13, 2005)

what are the criteria that makes an art ju jutsu?
i think for the most part, people lack the understanding of what ju - &#26580;&#12288;is.


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## TimoS (Nov 13, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> what are the criteria that makes an art ju jutsu?



Don't think there are any universally accepted criteria, which is a shame really


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## arnisador (Nov 13, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> what are the criteria that makes an art ju jutsu?



Good question, but I doubt that there's a good answer. If someone calls it jujutsu, people will make a decision in their own minds.

Is BJJ a jujutsu style in this sense?


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## BlackCatBonz (Nov 13, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Good question, but I doubt that there's a good answer. If someone calls it jujutsu, people will make a decision in their own minds.
> 
> *Is BJJ a jujutsu style in this sense*?


 
I would say most definitely.
But I also think that the popularity of Brazilian Jujutsu has also affected what people in general think jujutsu is.
Long before the UFC, before jujutsu was such a buzz word, I personally think the word and the image it conjured in people's heads were much different than they are today.
Heck, my mom was taking jujutsu in the local public school gym before i ever started studying martial arts.......she only made it to orange belt, but she was always quick to show me what she was learning at the time, surprisingly it was never "grappling".
for the most part, people i talk to equate jujutsu with grappling. it's much deeper than that.
It's often mistakenly referred to as "gentle art"......it can be, but i personally think that's just misinterpretation.
Fighting on the ground is a single aspect of jujutsu, sometimes its focused on to the point of missing all of the other excellent things it has to offer.


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## arnisador (Nov 13, 2005)

I think of BJJ as more akin to Judo, and hence not really jujutsu in the Japanese jujutsu sense. But, I can easily see both sides!


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## JAMJTX (Nov 14, 2005)

BJJ did grow directly out of Judo and is sport oriented.
One criteria of whether to use DO or JUTSU would be if there are rules.
There are no rules in combat or self defense.  There are rules in tournaments, including BJJ even though it is called "No Holds Barred".


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## BlackCatBonz (Nov 14, 2005)

from some of the past stories of BJJ fighters ive read about....it didnt sound like there were too many rules back when the gracies first started.


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## arnisador (Nov 14, 2005)

Yes, there are lots of rules in BJJ--but BJJ is also used in MMA events that have fewer rules. Still, the list of rules in such events is still quite long.


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## James Kovacich (Nov 14, 2005)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Anyway I'd like to expand the list of new Jujutsu (or Jujutsu-based) styles founded in the middle of 20th century that I know of. This is to fulfill the wishes of Mr. Arnisador
> 
> Other friends please help to expand or make corrections to this list please..I am sure I made some mistakes here and there!
> 
> ...


 
I think that Brosnius's Ketsugo dates to the '50's when he was a cop on the east coast.

And heres another newer system with links that go back. Shorinji Ryu Jujitsu.
http://www.worldbudokan.com/ISJFRequirements.html


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 15, 2005)

akja said:
			
		

> I think that Brosnius's Ketsugo dates to the '50's when he was a cop on the east coast.


 
Ah yes, I think you are right because I asked my sensei and he said Prof. Brosious has already known as a self-defense instructor in the mid 1950s. I will edit the post. Thank you!


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 15, 2005)

This is the first revision of the list. Friends of the MT please help me to add & correct the entries if there are new info available.

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (around 1920s)
Danzan-ryu (around 1930s)
Hakko-ryu (around 1930s)
Wado-ryu Jujutsu Kenpo Karate-Do (1930s)
M. Mitose's Kenpo Jiu-Jitsu (1940s)
Prof. Brosious's Ketsugo Ju-Jitsu (1950s)
Wally Jay's Small circle Jujutsu (1950s(?))
Prof. Visitacion's Vee-Arnis Jujutsu (1950s(?))
Prof. DePasquale's Yoshitsune Jujutsu (1950s(?))
Prof. Pereira's Miyama Jujutsu (1950s(?))
Swedish Budo Federation style Jujutsu (1950s(?))
S. Kuniba's Goshin Budo (1960s)
A. Church's Kamishin-ryu (1960s)
S. Koepke's Seki-ryu (1960s)
Prof. Kirby's Budoshin (1970s)
S. Tanemura's Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei (1980s)
S. Sato's Nihon Jujutsu (1980s)
Deutsche Jujutsu Verbond style (1990s(?))
H. Ahso's Sports Jujutsu (1990s)
A. Floquet's Aiki Budo (1990s)
Gendai Goshin-ryu Jujutsu (1990s)


any more additions & corrections?


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 15, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Good question, but I doubt that there's a good answer. If someone calls it jujutsu, people will make a decision in their own minds.


 
In my honest opinion, if a new style of Jujutsu can trace and prove their lineage to a style of martial art which by general consensus is accepted as a genuine Jujutsu style, then the new style of Jujutsu should be considered as "rooted in a genuine Jujutsu style".

That is why, to me personally, all styles derived from Danzan-ryu and Hakko-ryu and other modern Jujutsu styles can be considered as "rooted in a genuine Jujutsu style".


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## zujitsu (Nov 18, 2005)

zujitsu ryu is a new style of jujutsu founded in the 20th century

http://www.zujitsu.com/


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Nov 19, 2005)

zujitsu said:
			
		

> zujitsu ryu is a new style of jujutsu founded in the 20th century
> 
> http://www.zujitsu.com/


 
Thank you for the Info. So this is a derivative fro Sanuces-ryu, which by itself a derivative of Vee-Arnis Jujutsu? Very interesting. I will add Zujitsu to my list sometime later. Again thanks! Could you tell us a bit about the training in Zujitsu?


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Dec 5, 2005)

Here is what my sensei has written about modern Jujutsu

http://www.geocities.com/john_lord_b3/modern_jujutsu.htm

What do you think, people?


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