# They jipped me!



## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

I went to my 2nd tournament(my latest tournement) And the firstevent was kata, i took gold in that. And then there was kumite. It was a 'freindship tournament'(ages where 16 and down) were anyone from chito ryu or renshikan karate dojo's could compete(i think me and my freind where the only ones from a renshikan dojo). 

My catagory was boys 14+(?) yellow belt, but there was a change in it, there was a green belt put into our catagory(originaly in a catagory including black belts), i got kidna worried but the other yellow belts didnt seem to care much, they had bin to a few more tournaments than me. I only knew the one yellow belt who had bin to one more tournament than me and in karate longer by about half a year, at my first trounament where i met him i beat him ofcourse  he took silver(geuss what i got???). 

 I was feelin pretty confident about my first fight, and i felt too cocky. Well the kid was half my size, he beat me 3-2. there were 5 people in our catagory and i was thinkin the best i coudl take home was bronze but i actualy thought i was out.

 I made a comeback winning 4 fights in a row and i thought i was at my last fight. I was against the green belt for gold and he had also lost one fight if i remember correctly. So i was certain we were evan and fighting for gold. Well we went in and i WON!3-2. The judges talked for a couple seconds and the ref walked out and pointed at me "You have one more fight":soapbox: 

 I had to fight the green belt AGAIN! Well i was feelin pretty good, beat him once so i can do it agian. Ref told us to go and we did, short round and i made a point. I felt good, then we went in again and he made a point. I was gettin nervouse. We went in again and i threw a good punch that made it through to his left side and tapped his gi ,i know i didnt touch him. And they call contact! I had a few fights before where it showed i made contact good and they never called it. So i was mad. We went again and he made a point, now i was nervouse and mad.  But i decided i could comeback again. We went in and it wasnt 15 seconds i did the same thing same target same distance and they called CONTACT! and gave him the point.....my jaw dropped.

 I told my current sensei about that and he said sometimes they will do that so it doesnt look so bad on the green belts part. I took home silver my freind from the same dojo took home two golds in her class(orange belt) and was happy for me that i still got silver and beat a green belt one round. My old sensei(can no longer train or teach due to his back injury) was proud of me also, but i was and still am kinda mad about that. 

 WHat do you guys think??Think it was rigged:soapbox:  or im just a poor sport??

           both?:shrug:


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 8, 2002)

Welcome to the crappy world of martial politics. It's not just there they have the same BS over here too.


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

HURRAH! im not the only one!


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 8, 2002)

I can remember the All Japan JKA tournament back in 91~92 where a foreign friend of mine was competing and doing well until it came apparent that he was doing too well and just might win it all of a sudden the referees got eye trouble and couldn't see the points he was scoring or were giving his point to the other guy (Japanese guy).
It was painfully obvious what was happening to not only me but some of my Japanese friends that were there and getting rather embarrassed by it.
There was one break in between rounds and my friend that was competing asked what he should do he wasn't getting the points he was scoring. Since it was a non-contact tournament I told him "make sure  they know it is your point" . Next round he went out and split the guys lip with a head kick right off the bat.............judges never missed another of his points after that.


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

very nice .


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 8, 2002)

Oh well ya know................like the shirt says "S**T Happens"


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

Yea kicks are nice....im still a yellow so i neer used many kicks in my first 2 tournaments...But my next one im gonna be ready, have a full arsenal packed into that leg, im startin to get pretty good with my right leg, but the most i can do with my left leg is throw laughable attempts at kicking.


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## arnisador (Aug 8, 2002)

I've had similar things happen to me in tournaments when the judges obviously wanted to be done so they could get home, or wander around shooting the bull.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 8, 2002)

Tournaments have things like that happen .  Its a shame but some refs can't stand to see lower belts win.  
 Then again you will find refs that dont care one way or another  the winner will be the one that scores a real point.  I've seen green belts in black belt division take home trophies and good tournaments. They earnd them and the respecct of everyone there.
 To answere the original question   YES you where most likely ripped off  Next time just kick his  butt  quickly.
Shadow:asian:


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

Ok, well its good to know taht i was probably ripped off,  thanks.


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## chufeng (Aug 8, 2002)

I hesitated to respond to this post because there are those who think winning is everything, or that a trophy count means something.

Tournaments are a test for yourself...
You test your technique against an opponent who is equally intent on testing his techniques on you...

It adds a variable that you don't have in your school...the unknown..."What does this guy know that I don't?"...you haven't had the opportunity to study his movements like you have with those who you train with every day...

Uncertainty and apprehension become part of the variables in such a test...and when you get right down to it, overcoming those things is a bigger victory than bringing home the trophy.

Guess what?  Life isn't fair...and tournaments are no different, get used to it...learn the lessons that can be learned and which are right in front of you instead of focusing on being "jipped."

How won wins and how one loses is actually more important than the actual outcome of the match...IMHO


:asian:
chufeng


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## Baoquan (Aug 8, 2002)

Deathtrap, you're story is unfortunate, but all too common. I was at a tournament with a buddy of mine, he was fighting for state title, black belt division, and we taped the fight. He was awarded all the points required for a win, the fight was called, the other guy (who happened to be the protege of the most senior man at the tounament) was awarded the win, despite not scoring enough points. 

We took the tape to the judges, showed the footage of points being awarded, and the senior man said he disagreed with the points awarded during the match, and had the win awarded to his student.

Then, 3 weeks later, his student was given a scholarship to study in Japan - based on his performance in that tournament.

It sucks, but it happens.


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## Deathtrap101 (Aug 8, 2002)

Thats true, tournaments are too test yourself and learn. I went there and tested myself, i lost my first fight and made a comeback fighting everyone in my fighting class again and winning then i got cheated from winning, i was mad i didnt get what i wanted to show for it. but i learned from it and my skill will be there next time and that i suppose is all i need to show for it, my experience(thought it is still little).


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## GojuBujin (Aug 11, 2002)

Oss,

Welcome to tournaments.  I've only done one.  Very few have anything to do what Traditional Karate is all about.

Michael
www.inigmasoft.com/goyukai


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## KennethKu (Aug 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Baoquan _
> 
> *....... He was awarded all the points required for a win, the fight was called, the other guy (who happened to be the protege of the most senior man at the tounament) was awarded the win, despite not scoring enough points. ........ *



What happen would likely be, the next guy who goes up against his student is going to just draw blood and knock his student out. It has happened before in another case.   The guy knew he was going to be cheated of any chance, so he went for broke. He knocked the kid out cold. Bowed to the judges and walked away


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 17, 2002)

Being from the old school of tournaments and haveing put my time in the no pad days I have to say that I have seen what KennethKu said happen MANY TIMES.  

 In yhe years gone past if you knocked your opponet out enough time   the judges started doing 1 of two things  Giveing you the points for anything you threw or throwing you out as soon as it even looked like you where going to make contact.

  It's not the way it is taught today in most places and Ican not encourage you to be a "poor" sport but personaly I would not overly critisie my students for doing such.


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## jazkiljok (Sep 10, 2002)

yes- it's a crap shoot as to what you get in judging when it comes to points/light contact bouts. i assume here and japan are about the same when it comes to fairness. petty politics, favoritism, money, inexperienced judges, you name it-- it's all going to play apart in making sure that the odds of things working out fairly are pretty remote.

but this is what happens when self defense based arts move into the sport arena.  winning becomes all important and winning games is different then street/jungle survival.

if trophies are what you seek then you have to learn to play the game and accept the situation. the downside here is that many have discovered methods of executing teks that get a "fast" point but would get them demolished in the street if they tried the same. these people win tournament after tournament and it's only logical that you see more of the pitter patter that masquerades as kumite.

the pervesity of this is that when you think you're being punished for executing proper tek-- and some else's nonsense is being scored on you- you change the game yourself and go ahead crack your opponent to make your point (literally). this then gets you tossed albiet the smirk on your face will sit for some time. 

as a side note-- it is always amusing to see how these same point "champions" either shy away from full contact bouts or fail miserably when they try to make the cross over.

recently a highly touted kenpo karate "point" champion thought he could take his winning ways into the full contact arena- he lost his bout to an unheralded opponent. of course "he was robbed." but you know-- all he had to do is k.o. or choke out his opponent-- there is no mistaking that.

in any case- now that you've been made aware of how things work in these tournaments- you will be obligated to accept the fates decision and/or stop going.

peace.


:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (Sep 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jazkiljok _
> 
> *yes- it's a crap shoot as to what you get in judging when it comes to points/light contact bouts. i assume here and japan are about the same when it comes to fairness. petty politics, favoritism, money, inexperienced judges, you name it-- it's all going to play apart in making sure that the odds of things working out fairly are pretty remote.
> 
> ...



Yup........pretty much the same on both sides of the "pond". 
Years ago I was a tournament judge for a different organization than my teachers and disliked it greatly. It got to the point I could figure out within one or two places who was going to get what place in the tournament just by knowing who their judge would be. I was even asked to "help" certain folks since so and so was their teacher.
Sad isn't it. 

I resigned after only judging a few tournaments


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## ace (Oct 9, 2002)

:redeme: 
Sorry to here it!


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