# About fist position and safety



## Eshwar (Jul 2, 2009)

Hi,

I went to a seminar some weeks ago. The instructor told us that he had practiced several martial arts, beginning with Kenpo and now focused in JKD. 

When I was in the middle of the practice, he came and told me that would be better for me to change my punching style. As I have a Taekwondo background, you know, the position of the fist is very well known, in a straight punch, from a horse standing position. Here's a link to an image:

http://akkaboca.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/KenpoPhotos/CrestFistLogo.jpg


He recommended me to use the fist in a vertical position, for safety. Here's an image:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qj2jwJIY3...ST1mezo/S1600-R/fist+jet+master+PUBLICITY.JPG

It seems that the wrist could be easily damaged punching on the other way. Does anybody know the physical explanation of that idea? 

Thanks in advance,
Eshwar.


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## Aikicomp (Jul 2, 2009)

Eshwar said:


> Hi,
> 
> I went to a seminar some weeks ago. The instructor told us that he had practiced several martial arts, beginning with Kenpo and now focused in JKD.
> 
> ...


 
It all depends on what and where your target is.

We use both versions, albeit for different targets. Generally, I teach to use the vertical fist position when punching above the solar plexus and the horizontal fist position when punching below the solar plexus. Always striking your target with the two large "punching knuckles"(index and middle finger). Both variations have their respective pro's and con's in application to certain targets, to keep the fingers, knuckles and wrist safe from injury.

We also put the thumb on top of the index finger to help with fist stability whether it's in a vertical or horizontal position.

Ex. If you punch to the cheek of an opponent who is taller than you with a horizontal fist you will either be punching with the wrong knuckles or you will flex the wrist on a downward plane to hit with the correct knuckles thus comprimising your hand and wrist's linear stability and increasing the possibility of injury. 

Therefore, we would use the "vertical variety" punching cross cheek (right knuckles hitting opponent's right cheek) using the correct punch to hit the correct target with a minimal chance if injury to the hand and wrist.

Hope that helps.

Michael


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 2, 2009)

With the thumb placement on top instead of wrapped around you drastically reduce the chances of wrist injury...but that's an entirely different topic. 

The general philosophy that the vertical punch has the advantage over a horizontal punch when going to the head is that it has greater penetration due to the position of the knuckles on impact, and that you have a greater risk of breaking your fingers with the horizontal than you do with the vertical....as I understand it.


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## MattJ (Jul 2, 2009)

Either style will work fine. There are even some karate styles that use "3/4 punches" ie; halfway between horizontal and vertical. This is supposedly the "natural" angle of the outstretched arm. I note that I do have to tense the arm slightly to get either full vertical or full horizontal.

I use either, depending on the target.


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## arnisador (Jul 2, 2009)

Aikicomp said:


> It all depends on what and where your target is.



Agreed! My feeling is that palm-down is more likely to cause trouble as a rule, but how often does a boxer break his wrist while throwing a jab/cross combo?

Lots of punches leave you an option--the hook can be palm-down or palm-sideways, for example.



celtic_crippler said:


> With the thumb placement on top instead of wrapped around you drastically reduce the chances of wrist injury...



Ah yes, the Isshin-ryu style! It does expose the thumb to more chance of being jammed, though.



MattJ said:


> There are even some karate styles that use "3/4 punches" ie; halfway between horizontal and vertical. This is supposedly the "natural" angle of the outstretched arm.



For example, in Ryukyu Kempo I've heard this method praised. I like this from a comfort point of view but for most situations I feel I don't get the same power. Maybe it's just me.


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## graychuan (Jul 2, 2009)

If he studied kempo first then went to JKD just remember a very significant fact....JDK contains or is modified Wing Chun. The 'stacked' knuckle fist posture is common in that style and could just be preference on his part. Depends on the depth of his explaination. Also common in a lot of Chinese arts. Not to diminish his reasoning but it is what it is. And if JKD is the deciding factor...just remember that Bruce had jabs, backfists, hooks, uppercuts as well.


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## still learning (Jul 8, 2009)

Hello, In our Kempo classes...even for the HOOK punch it can be either way up or down...each way has a reason to use it...NO solid rules....

Same for punching...NO two situtions may apply at all times....

A bad punch landing in the wrong way (up or down)..can be damaging...it happens all the time.....

PS: the only time it is the RIGHT way?  ...when it lands with out you breaking your wrist or hand...and the other guys....lying on the floor...

Aloha,  ...still standing up...


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## Eshwar (Jul 11, 2009)

Hi again,

I have been banned for a while. Little mistake on profile ;-)

Many, many thanks for all your answers!


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