# Hulgul Jaseh



## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

I'm finding Hulgul Jaseh (back stance) fascinating!  I use it for my new form, Gi Cho Hyung Sam Bu, and for one of Il Soo Sik Deh Ryun.

My daughter does it very, very well - she really sits on the back leg, pops out the hip, and has the front leg far out in front.  Mind-boggling for me at this point. I can't even get my foot up on the tips of my toes yet.

I did find the form to be very tiring when doing Hulgul Jaseh as correctly as possible.  No time for that in class though because we move through the forms fast.  Guess who will be practicing, practicing, practicing?  However, we haven't been asked to really exaggerate it, to pop out our hip or to step wide.

And, then, there would have to be preparation wouldn't there? 

I love the challenge.  

Did you find Hulgul Jaseh a challenge?  When did you become comfortable doing it?


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## Makalakumu (Jul 19, 2007)

When I first learned hu gul jaseh, I found if very tiring.  My teacher required us to keep a weight ratio of 90 to 10 with most of the weight on the back leg.  That really burned.  You just have to practice the stance and it will get easier.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 19, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I'm finding Hulgul Jaseh (back stance) fascinating! I use it for my new form, Gi Cho Hyung Sam Bu, and for one of Il Soo Sik Deh Ryun.
> 
> My daughter does it very, very well - she really sits on the back leg, pops out the hip, and has the front leg far out in front. Mind-boggling for me at this point. I can't even get my foot up on the tips of my toes yet.
> 
> ...


 
I didn't find it challenging really, but it did take me a lil bit of work. I personnally think it is a great stance b/c you can get a lot of different kicks off, whether it be front kicks, side kicks, or even a jump side kick from a stand still. Also, you do not step wide and you do not step to far out in front. It's a short stance and your back leg should take all of your weight. If you have your left leg in front and your right leg back, your right toes will be facing away perpindicular to your front leg. It's pretty easy, it's just getting that right distance so you do not loose your balance. Hopefully this helps you instead of throwing you off. Good luck!


Tang Soo!!


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> When I first learned hu gul jaseh, I found if very tiring. My teacher required us to keep a weight ratio of 90 to 10 with most of the weight on the back leg. That really burned. You just have to practice the stance and it will get easier.


My daughter had me sit down on the back leg and balance on that leg - whew wee...it really did burn.  I will be practicing daily unless my muscles need recovery time.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 19, 2007)

One thing to think about while you are doing that stance is why you are doing that stance.  What is it about doing a block or a punch or a kick in this stance that truly separates it from doing it in any of the other stances?  What is the purpose behind the pain of hu gul jaseh?


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## Lynne (Jul 19, 2007)

agemechanic03 said:


> I didn't find it challenging really, but it did take me a lil bit of work. I personnally think it is a great stance b/c you can get a lot of different kicks off, whether it be front kicks, side kicks, or even a jump side kick from a stand still. Also, you do not step wide and you do not step to far out in front. It's a short stance and your back leg should take all of your weight. If you have your left leg in front and your right leg back, your right toes will be facing away perpindicular to your front leg. It's pretty easy, it's just getting that right distance so you do not loose your balance. Hopefully this helps you instead of throwing you off. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Tang Soo!!


 
Thanks for explaining some of the applications, agemechanic.  I can see how Hulgul Jaseh can be very useful, especially when one gets the balance and strength.

The width my daughter showed me is not quite as deep as a front stance but is a lot wider than a fighting stance.  My daughter had me kneel down one knee as she was shown in class. The heel of the other foot was brought next to my bended knee, then I stood up.  This showed the correct width of the stance.  I am not stepping wide enough with Hulgul Jaseh yet, similar to not stepping wide enough with a front stance when first learning it.

We do hold the perpendicular stance.

Ahhh...in the Il Soo Sik Deh Ryun we don't step but a short distance, about the length of a fighting stance distance.  When our partner punches at our nose with his right hand, we step left into Hulgul Jaseh and then chop block their wrist.

For the form though, we are to step wide.  In one of my daughter's orange belts forms they step wide and really throw the hip out.

I suppose it depends on the application?


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> One thing to think about while you are doing that stance is why you are doing that stance. What is it about doing a block or a punch or a kick in this stance that truly separates it from doing it in any of the other stances? What is the purpose behind the pain of hu gul jaseh?


Hmmm...a front stance gives you stability when done correctly; it would be difficult for an attacker to move you off balance.  With a front stance you can only move your body in one direction without repositioning yourself.  When you block or punch in the front stance, you can only use the core muscles to make a forward attack. You could do a side punch but you couldn't use the core muscles because you wouldn't be able to twist, so the side punch wouldn't be very effective.  Is that right?

So, the pain of hugul jaseh.  I just did it and the supporting leg experienced pain in the ankle joint and the pain travelled up to the inner thigh and then I noticed the stress on the knee. Then my whole thigh was engaged with pain, the kind of pain that gets to be a bit cardiovascular in nature (like lunges).   I didn't feel pain in the glutes (probably didn't hold it long enough).

I would think the difference in doing blocks, punches and kicks in this position is that once the leg(s) is/are strengthened you can pivot around quickly, very quickly, and engage your core muscles for punches and blocks from any point, and engage your leg and hip muscles for kicking from any point. Your supporting leg would be a pivot point, the balance for your entire body.  You'd have balance and control with any direction? In a front stance or a side stance, you'd have to hop/slide on both legs and get in position.

So, Hulgul Jaseh would be the balance for your entire body, allowing you speed, mobility and strength from any point?


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 20, 2007)

Lynne said:


> Hmmm...a front stance gives you stability when done correctly; it would be difficult for an attacker to move you off balance. With a front stance you can only move your body in one direction. When you block or punch in the front stance, you can only use the core muscles to move forward. You could do a side punch but you couldn't use the core muscles because you wouldn't be able to twist, so the side punch wouldn't be very effective. Is that right about engagement of the core muscles and moving forward?
> 
> So, the pain of hugul jaseh. I just did it and the supporting leg experienced pain in the ankle joint and the pain travelled up to the inner thigh and then I noticed the stress on the knee. Then my whole thigh was engaged with pain, the kind of pain that gets to be a bit cardiovascular in nature (like lunges). I didn't feel pain in the glutes (probably didn't hold it long enough).
> 
> ...


 
The pain is quite satisfying isn't it (Sarcastically). It is a good as it does allow speed and mobility. You can also turn quickly 180dg's too. Try it. You don't even have to pick up your leg. Just turn your hips and shoulders together and your feet too and you can get a quick kick in too if you have a 2nd attacker coming at you at the same time.


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## Makalakumu (Jul 20, 2007)

Hu gul jaseh changes the nature and angle of your action.  It sinks your weight and roots it.  It also hides a secret kick.


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

upnorthkyosa said:


> Hu gul jaseh changes the nature and angle of your action. It sinks your weight and roots it. It also hides a secret kick.


I'm not allowed to spar yet, but I can't wait to practice it in one-on-one kicking.

If it hides kicks, that's fabulous because no one would be able to read your "twitches."  Hmmm...would plot mischievously if I knew enough.

I did rotate 180!  I did an ahp chagi first.  Then, I did an edan ahp chagi.  I tried it with a dull ryo and rear dull ryo kick.  I will keep practicing different kicks with hulgul jaseh. Thank you for the tips 

Oh, yes, the pain is quite satisfying...as much fun as holding the horse stance for eons or 1000 wall kicks.


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## agemechanic03 (Jul 20, 2007)

Lynne said:


> I'm not allowed to spar yet, but I can't wait to practice it in one-on-one kicking.


 
Yes you might not be able to spar in class as of yet, but you can still spar with your daughter. In the type of sparring I'm talking about, you do not need gear. This is a technique my SBN uses to help us work on our self-control and to allow us to tweak our technique a lil bit..... Of course, still start of with your Cha Ryut Kunya facing each other out of respect, Chimbee into your fighting stance...Now as for kicking and punching...You can still make contact, but remember, it's about self-control...Light punches and kicks. You start off by doing a combo or 2 with a Kiap at the end of each combo. Then your daughter comes at you doing whatever combo she can think of. As she is coming at you, back up so she can extend her leg fully all while you are putting up blocks. It allows you both to work on technique at the same time. Of course, move in circles and do not just go back and forth. Like I said, do not land hard kicks or punches, it's ok to come in fast but remember to ease off so you do not hit hard. Hopefully that is not confusing. If you decide to do that, let me know how it goes...Just be safe and remember "SELF-CONTROL"


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## JT_the_Ninja (Jul 20, 2007)

The strength of hugul jase is exactly that; it allows you to kick fast and without warning. That's why you keep practically all your weight on your back leg. If you can't pick up your front foot without having to shift your weight, you're not doing it correctly. This is a good thing to practice, while you're working on hugul jase. Go into the stance and make sure you can throw a fast front kick without shifting your weight too much. This isn't going to be a front kick that you'd throw *at* someone so much as making sure you can get your knee up quickly. From the position of knee up in hugul jase, any non-back kick is possible almost immediately. Push your hips forward into the kick and you have ahp chagi. Pivot your back foot and you have dul ryo chagi. Bring your knee around and you have yup chagi. What's important is getting your knee up, and fast, so the kick is that much faster in execution.

It's good that you were shown that method of getting your foot distance. Remembering two big things will keep you on the right track, in terms of distance: (1) Your feet are still shoulder-width apart, just as in choon bee jase and chungul jase. (2) You're basically just sitting down on your back leg. Put all your weight on your back leg, and keep the left leg bent and loose as well. Since your leg is only so long, that'll help you keep the other dimension correct. 

It's difficult to do the latter of those things, I know. Hurts me especially due to my flat feet and subsequent bad knees. But practice makes it all the easier by strengthening the muscles involved. Just remember that getting lower in the stance is only a matter of sitting down further on your back foot. Same goes for keema jase. You don't lean over to get lower, you just bend your knees more and drop your weight more. 

Oh, and chungul jase is _not_ as unidirectional as many would have you believe. Remember what I said about picking up your knee leading to anything? Same goes for chungul jase. Put yourself in chungul jase, right foot back. Attacker comes from your right side. Your back foot is already pointed forward, so it comes up fast. Once your knee is up to your chest, you can, depending on how you pivot your hips and support foot, defend yourself with a turning ahp chagi or yup chagi. Reset. Now opponent comes from the left. It's a snap to switch feet and do the same thing. 

All this comes after the reason you put yourself into front stance: you had an attacker coming from the front, and put him down to the ground


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## Lynne (Jul 20, 2007)

agemechanic03 said:


> Yes you might not be able to spar in class as of yet, but you can still spar with your daughter. In the type of sparring I'm talking about, you do not need gear. This is a technique my SBN uses to help us work on our self-control and to allow us to tweak our technique a lil bit..... Of course, still start of with your Cha Ryut Kunya facing each other out of respect, Chimbee into your fighting stance...Now as for kicking and punching...You can still make contact, but remember, it's about self-control...Light punches and kicks. You start off by doing a combo or 2 with a Kiap at the end of each combo. Then your daughter comes at you doing whatever combo she can think of. As she is coming at you, back up so she can extend her leg fully all while you are putting up blocks. It allows you both to work on technique at the same time. Of course, move in circles and do not just go back and forth. Like I said, do not land hard kicks or punches, it's ok to come in fast but remember to ease off so you do not hit hard. Hopefully that is not confusing. If you decide to do that, let me know how it goes...Just be safe and remember "SELF-CONTROL"


 
This is similar to our one-on-one kicking in class.  White belts don't do the combinations but I hear that I will be doing combinations as a yellow belt.  We do move in a circle, bouncing, and as fast as we can.  In class, we are not allowed to make contact.

I think the light contact you suggest is a good idea as it will help me learn control before I start sparring.  To be honest with you, I have white, yellow and orange belts kicking me all the time during one-on-one when they aren't supposed to.  Most of the time, it's lack of control.  It's always light kicks though, at least so far.

I'd thought about my daughter and I sparring.  Great for cardiovascular endurance, too.  And building up those calf muscles.  And the list goes on...


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## Yossarian (Jul 21, 2007)

Good old "uncle jesse"

I find when I spar a tend to modify it a bit, my wieght is more 50/50 and my back foot will be at about 45deg as opposed to 90. I find this gives me greater mobility.

I cant believe youve not sparred yet, your in for a treat, its great fun.


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## Lynne (Jul 21, 2007)

Yossarian said:


> Good old "uncle jesse"
> 
> I find when I spar a tend to modify it a bit, my wieght is more 50/50 and my back foot will be at about 45deg as opposed to 90. I find this gives me greater mobility.
> 
> I cant believe youve not sparred yet, your in for a treat, its great fun.


 
We can't spar until orange belt (4 months of training), 8th gup.  I test last of August. We do one-on-one kicking, chasing one another in a circle, exchanging kicks as fast as we can.  We do that while everyone else is sparring, 3 minute rounds.

I already have my sparring equipment.  I just got it so I can attend a sparring clinic in mid-August.  Master said I can if I have my sparring gear


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