# Does anybody here believe in the concepts of yoga?  Or am I alone on this one?



## Freestyler777 (Jul 9, 2007)

Basically, there are two ways to look at God.  He can be an omnipotent father figure in heaven, watching over us, or God can be Brahman, or the ground of being, or the universal soul.

The Hindus have the concept of 'atman' or individual soul, and 'Brahman' or universal soul.  But really, they are the same.  It's like an ocean.  You can take ten cups and fill them with sea water, they're all the same water but in different vessels.  The same with humans.  We're all different yet our natures are alike.  That's because God is the heart of all sentient beings.  So to harm another is to harm yourself.  And to help another is to help yourself.  

Also, I'd like to know, who here believes in rebirth/reincarnation?  I do.  I believe that when you die, your spirit either reborn another human or you die and return to God.  Returning to God is what I call 'going to heaven' and returning to the cycles of birth and death is what I call 'rebirth'.  Neither is bad, so death should not be feared.


----------



## Martial Tucker (Jul 9, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> The Hindus have the concept of 'atman' or individual soul, and 'Brahman' or universal soul.  But really, they are the same.  It's like an ocean.  You can take ten cups and fill them with sea water, they're all the same water but in different vessels.  The same with humans.  We're all different yet our natures are alike.  That's because God is the heart of all sentient beings.  So to harm another is to harm yourself.  And to help another is to help yourself.



I agree with this, for the most part. I think that God is essentially all of creation, or said another way, "God Is". As such, we are all the same...
extensions of God. What separates us in our minds from each other and, from God, is our egos. 

Having said all of that, I also think that if you are familiar with the basic 
principles of quantum physics, it is apparent that what we consider our reality is nothing more than an illusion. A holographic, virtual reality experience. 

With that, I also believe in reincarnation. I think that we continue to be "reborn" into new situations until we learn enough from our "life" experiences to be able to eliminate our egos, and to love each other unconditionally, with the knowledge that we are all identical parts of God. (unconditional love = God). When we attain this state, the cycle of rebirth is over, and our consciousness returns to the Source


----------



## Steel Tiger (Jul 9, 2007)

The atman.  I have seen them portrayed as concentric circles with the Brahman at the centre surrounded by the individual self.  They are separate but they are part of a single whole.


It is interesting to look at reincarnation in the Hindu literature.  In the Vedas and Upanishads it was seen as something that had to be escaped.  Obedience to Dharma and honouring Kharma would lead to better and better lives until escape could be achieved.  For Brahmin this was moksha, or enlightenment, for Kshatriya and Vaishya it was an ascent to heaven, the Shudra were stuck with reincarnation until they achieved a higher being.  Reincarnation was the lot of all men who did not adhere to the teachings of the yogas.  Was it a punishment? No it was just life.

Do I believe in reincarnation?  Perhaps.  My personal beliefs are more Daoist than Yogic.  I can, however, see a lot of parallels and similarities between them.  Daoism and reincarnation are not incompatible.


----------



## Freestyler777 (Jul 10, 2007)

Thank you guys for posting


----------



## Freestyler777 (Jul 10, 2007)

I think that the concept of 'samsara' and 'moksha' is a little bit different than strictly Vedic Philosophy.  Rebirth is not bad, but it is not the most desirable thing either.  In a sense, yoga can be seen as the quest for immortality.  Now you might scoff at immortality, but there is both a literal immortality (reached by few) and there is a figurative immortality (returning to god at the end of one's lifetime, or merging with god consciousness).  There is no room for this guy took a high birth and this guy took a low birth.  I believe that idea was just designed to keep the caste system in place in India many centuries ago.  Rebirth is the polishing of the spirit, and immortality or moksha (which translates as 'freedom') is a goal that anyone can achieve within this lifetime.  It says in the baghavad gita, 'wisdom is the boat that will carry you across the sea of all sin'  it also says 'wisdom is the end of every action'.  So I see rebirth as acceptable and moksha as the ultimate goal of life.  That is in no way a pessimistic outlook, in my opinion.


----------



## Steel Tiger (Jul 10, 2007)

Freestyler777 said:


> Rebirth is the polishing of the spirit, and immortality or moksha (which translates as 'freedom') is a goal that anyone can achieve within this lifetime. It says in the baghavad gita, 'wisdom is the boat that will carry you across the sea of all sin' it also says 'wisdom is the end of every action'. So I see rebirth as acceptable and moksha as the ultimate goal of life. That is in no way a pessimistic outlook, in my opinion.


 
I agree the cycle of rebirth is not pessimistic, it is in Hindu belief the nature of life nothing more nothing less.  

The polishing of the spirit (a nice turn of phrase by the way) is governed by Dharma and Kharma.  To continue your own analogy, Dharma is the medium you use to polish, it determines the overall success of the polishing.  Kharma is like the cloth used to do the polishing, it determines how much work is needed to achieve the goal.

You may very well be right about the concepts of high and low being introduced to maintain a caste system.  But I would suggest that it was introduced early in the formulation of the yogic philosophies and so is so firmly a part of them it cannot be set aside.  It has to be dealt with.  I have always described the Hindu caste system and its associated society as a senile system.  One well past its general usefulness and in dire need of change.


----------



## Freestyler777 (Jul 11, 2007)

You are right in that the caste system is an integral part of Yogic philosophy.  But then again, Yoga is much of the basis of chinese thought, in particular dao and of course Chan (zen) buddhism, it's spiritual descendent, which was founded by none other than Boddhidarma, an Indian Buddhist monk.

The Baghavad Gita has many central ideas that are similar to those found in the Tao Te Ching.  However, the locus of control and the general 'seriousness' of the Baghavad Gita is different.  Where as if someone had a car accident, a yogic philosopher might say, it was the result of his karma (action), and he must make reperations through action to heal himself.  A Taoist philosopher might say, it was just bad fortune, or Heaven willed it to be this way.  There is far less judgement and 'religiosity' in chinese thought, which is one of its best features.

The Yogic view might be alien to the westerner not read on the subject, and Taoist philosophy, in my opinion, is much more palatable to the western man than Yogic philosophy.

One is not better than the other, it's just a matter of how you motivate people to do good to each other.  The end result is, you should love the world the way it is, and act out of compassion for others and yourself with no thought of results.


----------

