# Recent Craigslist Robbery Article



## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

I just thought that I would share with everyone a recent article that I discovered relating to a robbery that happened in the Los Angeles area not too long ago. 

Perhaps this article might get people to wake up to start understanding that the criminals are not being nice at all and as to why it is important to pay attention to security and self defense. 

What they talk about in the article is nothing new to me as I have seen this type of stuff before and I still do because of the neighborhood that I live in.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...n-robbed-after-advertising-on-craigslist.html


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 26, 2009)

Criminals are never nice and if you're going to *advertise* on craigslist soliciting *masseuse* services you're lucky if all you get is robbed. She basically invited 2 male strangers into her home. She's lucky she wasn't killed. This boils down to more than paying attention to security and self defense. This equals stupidity. 

As to answering apparent legitimate ads on craigslist for goods or jobs, make sure you are at least accompanied by one or more people.


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## Carol (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't necessarily disagree Pam.  Although I have to admit that I have never brought a companion with me for something I saw on Craig's List.  

If I cannot do my due diligence before the visit, then the offer is not worth the risk (for me).


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

I think that she made a poor choice in judgement by bringing these men home with her and without at least having someone else around that she knew and trusted.

We cannot however forget the actual intent of the men themselve's. Who are we to say that they would not have attacked either her or someone else out on the street? I think that if we overlook that important aspect of it then we are allowing ourselve's to be just as stupid as she was as we really have no idea as to what their intent was before she even brought them home with her.

For all we know they could have been planning on committing this sort of crime long before they met this woman. It could also have been an after thought as well. It's really difficult to say for sure as people tend to be very complex creatures and are driven by both our instincts and our emotions. 

Since we weren't there and since we really don't know as to what the men's state of mind and intent were before the ad was even posted it would be rather premature and judgemental of us to put all of the blame on her alone.

While I can't say for sure, it kind of sounds to me like the men had been planning something of this nature long before she posted the ad and invited them into her home and if that is the case then this sort of thing could have happened to any one of us because criminals sure as heck are not going to advertise their intent beforehand, at least not the smart ones.


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## MJS (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I just thought that I would share with everyone a recent article that I discovered relating to a robbery that happened in the Los Angeles area not too long ago.
> 
> Perhaps this article might get people to wake up to start understanding that the criminals are not being nice at all and as to why it is important to pay attention to security and self defense.
> 
> ...


 
Dude, you're preaching to ones that already know, once again.  You seem to be under this assumption, that people are clueless and you're the only one who really knows.  Please, I beg to differ.  You're the one who seems like the paranoid one, who feels the need to look over your shoulder for the boogy man, every 30sec.  

As for this woman....I think its safe to say that there're a good many ads on craigs list, that are less than reliable.  Sexual oriented ads are always the hot topic on CL, and are always being investigated.  Didn't some girl get killed a while ago, in Boston, I believe?  And what was she advertising?  

Additionally, it doesn't have to be CL, it could be anything.  An open house for example.  My wifes Grandmother, had a ring stolen during an open house.  Oddly enough, the 'viewer' didn't seem to interested in talking to the agent, leaving their contact info and went thru the house very quick.  I could put an ad in the paper for a car.  Anyone who comes to look at it, could be suspect.  If that car isn't garaged, the 'viewer' could come back at 3am and steal it.  I could have a TV for sale.  The person now has to enter my house, be in in the living room, or the garage, they are still entering MY house.  Therefore, they can now see what I have.  

Be cafeful of what you do.  Be aware, but not paranoid.  Take precautions to safeguard your home.  Keep your doors and windows locked when you're not home.  Get an alarm system.  Start a neighbhorhood watch group.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 26, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> I don't necessarily disagree Pam.  Although I have to admit that I have never brought a companion with me for something I saw on Craig's List.
> 
> If I cannot do my due diligence before the visit, then the offer is not worth the risk (for me).




I've gotten stuff from craigslist before too (twice), but always had someone with me to help cart it home. 

The reason I mention it is that back in 2007 a college student was killed when she answered a craigslist ad for a babysitter. She thought she was meeting a woman or a couple. Instead when she arrived she was shot in the back by a teenage boy and stuffed into the trunk of a car. 

There was the Boston case of CL murders by the medical student of women offering masseuse services, as well as another one I can't recall the location. I'm sure there are others if you do a search. 

However, as you stated, if cannot do your due diligence, you don't take the risk. 

You really just never know these days.


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## crushing (Aug 26, 2009)

MJS said:


> Dude, you're preaching to ones that already know, once again. You seem to be under this assumption, that people are clueless and you're the only one who really knows. Please, I beg to differ. You're the one who seems like the paranoid one, who feels the need to look over your shoulder for the boogy man, every 30sec.
> 
> As for this woman....I think its safe to say that there're a good many ads on craigs list, that are less than reliable. Sexual oriented ads are always the hot topic on CL, and are always being investigated. Didn't some girl get killed a while ago, in Boston, I believe? And what was she advertising?
> 
> ...


 
EXACTLY!  That's why I think the media does a great disservice by calling these perps "The Craigslist Robber" or "The Craigslist Killer".  Of course, many of the mass media companies doing the reporting own newspapers have a section that sell ads, much like Craigslist.  I don't doubt that criminals have used print media ads to do the same thing, but I doubt it was sensationalized as "The Print Media Robber" or "The Tribune Killer".


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 26, 2009)

crushing said:


> EXACTLY!  That's why I think the media does a great disservice by calling these perps "The Craigslist Robber" or "The Craigslist Killer".  Of course, many of the mass media companies doing the reporting own newspapers have a section that sell ads, much like Craigslist.  I don't doubt that criminals have used print media ads to do the same thing, but I doubt it was sensationalized as "The Print Media Robber" or "The Tribune Killer".




Yep, it does and can happen anywhere. It's happened with myspace before too and you mentioned, I'm sure others. I think the only one classified as a CL killer was the med student who targeted CL masseuses.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

I've never purchased anything from Craigslist before, but I did try to sell some stuff on Craigslist. I also responded to a couple of job offers on there as well. 

In one instance a guy advertised that he was from the UK and that he and his new bride were looking for someone to do some cleaning for them in the Albuquerque area. 

I along with a number of other people replied to the ad, but when we questioned him about the details he could not be very specific at all. All that he did was dodge the bullet.

In another instance I tried to sell a CB radio that I have on CL along with several other items that I have around the house. I got one lady who replied back and said that she wanted to buy the CB from me, but that she was not in the Albuquerque area. 

I don't have a problem with selling to someone who lives in another state than I do or even in another country, but I do have a problem when I receive things like checks, money orders, and even travellers checks in the mail that turn out to be phonier than a 2 dollar bill when you go to attempt to verify the validity of the check, money order or travellers check. 

What's even worse though is that Paypal itself is not safe either. I ran into that last year when a guy that I was talking to told me that he was going to send me some money to help a girl that I met on the internet and to help me to start some businesses that I have been trying to start.

The money that I did receive through Paypal turned out to have been stolen off of his alleged clients credit card by his clients brother. This is something that I did not discover until well after the fact. Prior to that I thought that the money was coming from the guy that I was talking to and that I was helping him with a girl that he supposedly met in person who was supposedly his friend and whom he did not want his wife to know about.

I would have never agreed to help him if I had known before hand. I only agreed to help him because of the promises that he made to me about helping me and my friend and because I understood what he was telling me about how his wife would more than likely get so angry and jealous of the other woman that she would leave him and take his kids with him.

I'm still angry at this guy because of what he did, but at the moment I am more angry at Paypal because they did not utilize any security measures on their part. He not only duped me, but I also believe that he duped Paypal as well and at the moment they are refusing to acknowlege that they had anything to do with it at all.


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## jks9199 (Aug 26, 2009)

How the hell is PayPal supposed to know (any more than a retailer at point of sale) that a credit card or money is stolen unless the transaction fails to go through?  How is it their fault that someone used a stolen card via their service?  And, I'm sorry, but especially after all the coverage the various over-pay scams have gotten... I'm really not at all sympathetic to someone who falls for it.  Hint... If someone is giving you a check for too much money... there's probably a problem there!  

Regarding the story in the article...  Um, maybe you ain't aware of it, but I'm kind of skeptical of the idea of someone offering "massages" in the comfort of their home via Craig's List, or any other similar service.  If they're legit -- why don't they arrange an office?  I kind of wonder if the "massages" weren't very localized, if you know what I mean...

Otherwise... basic safety issues have already been covered by others.


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> How the hell is PayPal supposed to know (any more than a retailer at point of sale) that a credit card or money is stolen unless the transaction fails to go through?  How is it their fault that someone used a stolen card via their service?  And, I'm sorry, but especially after all the coverage the various over-pay scams have gotten... I'm really not at all sympathetic to someone who falls for it.  Hint... If someone is giving you a check for too much money... there's probably a problem there!
> 
> *Regarding the story in the article...  Um, maybe you ain't aware of it, but I'm kind of skeptical of the idea of someone offering "massages" in the comfort of their home via Craig's List, or any other similar service.  If they're legit -- why don't they arrange an office?  I kind of wonder if the "massages" weren't very localized, if you know what I mean...*
> 
> Otherwise... basic safety issues have already been covered by others.



My thoughts exactly.


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## MJS (Aug 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> How the hell is PayPal supposed to know (any more than a retailer at point of sale) that a credit card or money is stolen unless the transaction fails to go through? How is it their fault that someone used a stolen card via their service? And, I'm sorry, but especially after all the coverage the various over-pay scams have gotten... I'm really not at all sympathetic to someone who falls for it. Hint... If someone is giving you a check for too much money... there's probably a problem there!
> 
> Regarding the story in the article... Um, maybe you ain't aware of it, but I'm kind of skeptical of the idea of someone offering "massages" in the comfort of their home via Craig's List, or any other similar service. If they're legit -- why don't they arrange an office? I kind of wonder if the "massages" weren't very localized, if you know what I mean...
> 
> Otherwise... basic safety issues have already been covered by others.


 
So much truth in here it isn't even funny.  Really, if we stop and think about it, sometimes those things that sound too good to be true, often are.  I mean, anyone with half a brain, would or should find it odd, that the massages are being offered in a home, rather than an office.  And if it really was a legit business, why not take an ad out in the local paper or phone book?  

And I too, mentioned the over payments in another thread, probably the one that got trimmed back to 3 pgs. due to the forum incident.  But really, someone, someone that you don't know, never heard of, suddenly sends you a check, a check that they are claiming they overpaid you on, they request the difference back..umm...heeellllloooooooo.....scam, scam, scam.  Really, I have no sympathy for people that fall for that stuff.

I took a call a few months ago, from a woman asking me if this sounded legit:  A guy from out of the country, was offering her a time share.  She had to pay him cash, up front, before he'd agree to anything.  Keep in mind, this 'timeshare' was sight unseen as well.  I asked the woman if she really felt that this was something legit, to which she said no, but was still confused on what to do.  Umm...why the hell would anyone buy anything, sigh unseen????  Would anyone here buy a car without a test drive?  A house without a walk thru?  A mystery job without an interview?  Come on now.

Once again, I find myself saying the same thing....this stuff that we see today is nothing new.  Scams have been around for a long time.  Only difference is, is that new ones come up, but they're still scams.  If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2009)

Mr. Donovan, I challenge you to post up a good news story that shows the better side of human nature. You concentrate far too much on the bad side and it's simply not healthy.
Bad things happen but by the very nature of this board the majority of people here are alert to the dangers of the world, it's why most of us do SD and practice awareness etc.
If I received fake cheques I would either take them to the police or send them on to the BNP (a very nasty Nazi org) as a donation lol or I could throw them in the bin but the point is.... that there's little point in bumping your gums about it.
I don't really know what Craigs List is,it's not well known here but I had a look after Googling, on the UK one (it has a section for erotic services which sounds fun lol!) I assume however that it's big in America? At any rate a few crimes spread among what, hundreds of thousands of transactions means the majority of people are honest and are also aware of the dangers.
Mr Donovan, you must take the sign off your forehead that says "I'm gullible" and replace it with one that says "Do I look like I was born yesterday?"


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> How the hell is PayPal supposed to know (any more than a retailer at point of sale) that a credit card or money is stolen unless the transaction fails to go through? How is it their fault that someone used a stolen card via their service? And, I'm sorry, but especially after all the coverage the various over-pay scams have gotten... I'm really not at all sympathetic to someone who falls for it. Hint... If someone is giving you a check for too much money... there's probably a problem there!
> 
> Regarding the story in the article... Um, maybe you ain't aware of it, but I'm kind of skeptical of the idea of someone offering "massages" in the comfort of their home via Craig's List, or any other similar service. If they're legit -- why don't they arrange an office? I kind of wonder if the "massages" weren't very localized, if you know what I mean...
> 
> Otherwise... basic safety issues have already been covered by others.


 
My issue with Paypal is not because I was trying to sell anything through them at all. 

I got my Paypal account initially so that I could purchase things online, but then after I started learning about eBay I decided that I wanted to sell SMC products as well as other related products online through eBay and through things like my own websites.

Unfortunately because of one of my former employers who terminated me for refusing to violate federal DOT hours of service laws I was left with basically little to no income coming in. 

Prior to Swift terminating me for refusing to violate the law I had spent over $950 dollars trying to help a girl out that I had met on MySpace and whom I thought was legitimate. She told me that she had a client who was going to reimburse me the money that I spent trying to help her out and who was supposedly going to be putting up the money so that this girl could supposedly return to Albuquerque, New Mexico.

The whole thing was nothing but a personal issue and not one of a b2c relationship. 

The way that I see it if Wells Fargo can determine and trace an IP Address to Egypt and they can understand and take action on something they know to be a scam due to their own investigative efforts, then so should Paypal as they are supposed to have professionals working for them that are supposed to know what they are doing and that are supposed to protect their customers from fraud.


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> My issue with Paypal is not because I was trying to sell anything through them at all.
> 
> I got my Paypal account initially so that I could purchase things online, but then after I started learning about eBay I decided that I wanted to sell SMC products as well as other related products online through eBay and through things like my own websites.
> 
> ...


 

I'm a widow with seven children and am about to be thrown out of my house as I can't pay the rent please send me money asap and I'll let you have it back when I sell off one of my children into the sex trade.

What's a bc2 relationship?


I'm not sure of American libel laws but you may want to be careful naming companies when making statements involving alleged illegalities?

Two words........Caveat Emptor.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> How the hell is PayPal supposed to know (any more than a retailer at point of sale) that a credit card or money is stolen unless the transaction fails to go through? How is it their fault that someone used a stolen card via their service? And, I'm sorry, but especially after all the coverage the various over-pay scams have gotten... I'm really not at all sympathetic to someone who falls for it. Hint... If someone is giving you a check for too much money... there's probably a problem there!
> 
> Regarding the story in the article... Um, maybe you ain't aware of it, but I'm kind of skeptical of the idea of someone offering "massages" in the comfort of their home via Craig's List, or any other similar service. If they're legit -- why don't they arrange an office? I kind of wonder if the "massages" weren't very localized, if you know what I mean...
> 
> Otherwise... basic safety issues have already been covered by others.


 
I'm going to try to explain this better to you so that you will understand better as to where I am coming from. 

The only question is will the idiots and pinheads in my neighborhood leave me alone long enough so that I can explain it properly and as stress free as I possibly can without one of these idiots trying to pull something on me.

I don't know when they are going to get it through their thick skulls that I am not a cigarette shop, a taxi service, the phone company, or the grocery store and that they need to get off their lazy asses and go out and get a damn job.

It's bad enough that I am extremely stressed out over my financial situation and my employment situation, but it certainly does not make matters any better when these idiots keep trying to pull a lot of crap with me. 

Just last night I was damn sure that I was going to get into a physical altercation with some dumb****** in my neighborhood all because I would not give them a cigarette. 

I don't know if you or anyone can understand this at all, but I have very little money to work with and while I know that smoking is bad for my health, I have a very hard time quitting because of all the stress that I am currently under and what cigarettes that I am able to buy I sure as hell am not going to act like a cigarette dispenser to all the idiots in my neighborhood because they are too damn lazy to go out and buy their own. 

I don't mind helping people out when I can, but at some point I need to draw the line and stand up for myself by saying no and by sticking to it.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I'm a widow with seven children and am about to be thrown out of my house as I can't pay the rent please send me money asap and I'll let you have it back when I sell off one of my children into the sex trade.
> 
> What's a bc2 relationship?
> 
> ...


 
A B2C relationship is a business to customer relationship.

The one's that need to be careful is Paypal as they are the one's throwing the allegations at me and by denying any responibility on their end at all. 

I've already explained this to an attorney and the attorney knows that what they are doing is playing the blame game with me and that it is nothing but a ploy on their end.


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm going to try to explain this better to you so that you will understand better as to where I am coming from.
> 
> The only question is will the idiots and pinheads in my neighborhood leave me alone long enough so that I can explain it properly and as stress free as I possibly can without one of these idiots trying to pull something on me.
> 
> ...


 

They will stop bothering you when they stop seeing you as a weak person. The thing might be that at the right moment you may have to thump one of them to prove you can take care of yourself. Now normally I do not advise anyone to do this and I usually discourage bashing people but sometimes when in the jungle you have to. You have to stop worrying about them and concentrate on yourself, _physical altercations are_ _always best avoided_ but the worm turns eventually.

You don't draw the line _sometime_, you draw it now, as you are reading this you must say, that's it, NO MORE!

I wouldn't worry about the cigs though, my instructor is a stress smoker, get things sorted first then give up.

Money and the lack of it is a problem. for men especially as they can identify with their jobs. 
Over here we have the TA, part time soldiers, I'm sure you must have something similiar? It would be a good thing for you to do, some money, confidence building, decent people on the whole for you to socialise and work with. 

Seriously though, at this point you need to get a grip on what's happening.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> They will stop bothering you when they stop seeing you as a weak person. The thing might be that at the right moment you may have to thump one of them to prove you can take care of yourself. Now normally I do not advise anyone to do this and I usually discourage bashing people but sometimes when in the jungle you have to. You have to stop worrying about them and concentrate on yourself, _physical altercations are_ _always best avoided_ but the worm turns eventually.
> 
> You don't draw the line _sometime_, you draw it now, as you are reading this you must say, that's it, NO MORE!
> 
> ...


 
I don't know what TA means where you are from and I hope that you will explain it to me so that I know what it means, but here and in the circles that I am used to TA stands for Travel Centers of America and is a truckstop that truck drivers can go to for things like food, fuel, showers, and just about anything else that they might want or need.

Female companionship is optional at truckstops and is not recommended unless of course it is a woman that you know and that you trust.

As far as the rest of your post, I think that you are absolutely right on target and that is exactly what I am working on trying to accomplish.

Finding suitable fulltime employment however is difficult for me at the moment due to the economy and due to the fact that I am either extremely out of date on many of my business and computer skills or that I am missing the required education or recent experience that employers are seeking right now and that is why I am trying anything and everything that I can just to make ends meet and to keep my head above water financially, but without violating the law and without doing anything that would be considered grossly immoral at all as I tend to have my standards that I will not violate at all. 

I hope that makes sense.


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I don't know what TA means where you are from and I hope that you will explain it to me so that I know what it means, but here and in the circles that I am used to TA stands for Travel Centers of America and is a truckstop that truck drivers can go to for things like food, fuel, showers, and just about anything else that they might want or need.
> 
> Female companionship is optional at truckstops and is not recommended unless of course it is a woman that you know and that you trust.
> 
> ...


 
TA is Territorial Army...as I said part time soldiers. Here at least it's a good way into full time employment.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> TA is Territorial Army...as I said part time soldiers. Here at least it's a good way into full time employment.


 
I would love to hear more about your country and your people sometime if you of course would be so kind to share with me.


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## MJS (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> My issue with Paypal is not because I was trying to sell anything through them at all.
> 
> I got my Paypal account initially so that I could purchase things online, but then after I started learning about eBay I decided that I wanted to sell SMC products as well as other related products online through eBay and through things like my own websites.
> 
> ...


 
Umm....who, I repeat who in their right mind would spend $950 on someone they know from myspace??????????????  And then you wonder a) why people are saying the things they are about you and b) why you are in the paranoid state of mind that you're in.


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I would love to hear more about your country and your people sometime if you of course would be so kind to share with me.


 
Feel free to Pm if you wish. I can chat for England frankly.

and you lot can stop laughing!


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## Flea (Aug 26, 2009)

Tez3 said:


> I'm a widow with seven children and am about to be thrown out of my house as I can't pay the rent please send me money asap and I'll let you have it back when I sell off one of my children into the sex trade.




I don't know if that thread is still around, but I _am_ considering a new career.  Tez, maybe you're on to something ... 

How about this?  I'm a newly-quadruplegic MA'ist being harassed by neighborhood kids.  They keep stealing my service monkey and making it shoplift cigarettes for them.  Please send me $700 so I can give it to these kids to buy their own cigs and leave my money alone! I'll repay you as soon as we perfect our sidewalk organ-grinder routine.

:lol:


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## Hawke (Aug 26, 2009)

I know people that advertise on CL as massage therapists, but they do house calls not in home.  They also spend time to get to know them before they go to their client's homes.  Some of them don't have offices because they can't afford the extra money for the city license(s).  Usually these massage therapist are part timers. 

I personally don't invite strangers to my home.


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## jks9199 (Aug 26, 2009)

Actually, really "new" scams are rare.  Most turn out to be a slight variant on old scams...  The Nigerian Scam is just a different take on the Spanish Prisoner...  Pigeon Drops are rampant.

There are a few things that make any scam work...  They rely on greed overcoming common sense, and on moving quickly (at key points in a long con) or pressuring the victim so that they don't think things through.


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## jks9199 (Aug 26, 2009)

rdonovan1 said:


> I'm going to try to explain this better to you so that you will understand better as to where I am coming from.
> 
> The only question is will the idiots and pinheads in my neighborhood leave me alone long enough so that I can explain it properly and as stress free as I possibly can without one of these idiots trying to pull something on me.
> 
> I don't know when they are going to get it through their thick skulls that I am not a cigarette shop, a taxi service, the phone company, or the grocery store and that they need to get off their lazy asses and go out and get a damn job.


 They'll stop when *you *stop letting them take advantage of you.





> I don't mind helping people out when I can, but at some point I need to draw the line and stand up for myself by saying no and by sticking to it.



My gawd!  Maybe, just maybe the light is beginning to dawn!

Print this post.  Cut the last line out.  Or use a marker... But put it lots of places that you can see and be reminded.

STOP BEING A FREAKING VICTIM AND STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.  Stop looking for a solution and start creating one.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 29, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> They'll stop when *you *stop letting them take advantage of you.
> 
> My gawd! Maybe, just maybe the light is beginning to dawn!
> 
> ...


 
I don't know if this will make sense to anyone, but what I am doing is focusing more on my own behavior while at the same time calling people on their crap.


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## rdonovan1 (Aug 29, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Actually, really "new" scams are rare. Most turn out to be a slight variant on old scams... The Nigerian Scam is just a different take on the Spanish Prisoner... Pigeon Drops are rampant.
> 
> There are a few things that make any scam work... They rely on greed overcoming common sense, and on moving quickly (at key points in a long con) or pressuring the victim so that they don't think things through.


 
Common sense and being able to read people's minds are two seperate things.

I don't know about you or anyone else, but I have no way of knowing what another person is going to say or do. All that I can do is make my best guess and hope that I am right. The rest is up to the other person as to whether they can and will be honest with me upfront by doing what they say they are going to do.


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