# Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo...



## koga ha (Mar 16, 2005)

Gentlemen/Ladies,

The webiste is up; however, it is still under construction. 

I think you will find the writings an excellent read and a breath of fresh air. 

Take a look: kogahakempo.com

Do not short change yourself; read the information.


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## The Kai (Mar 16, 2005)

Well they say if you can say nothing nice say nothing at all............


Just two things tho'
1.) There is no record of Mitose travel "extensively" in Japan
2.) Motobu's family denies Mitose ever trained with Choki Motobu

If you write it's not a fact


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## koga ha (Mar 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Well they say if you can say nothing nice say nothing at all............
> 
> 
> Just two things tho'
> ...


where are you getting your data from?


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## The Kai (Mar 17, 2005)

Well basically anywhere but Durbin!!

In all the stories about Mitose there is no recollection of his travel throuughout Japan (In fact in Durbin's fiction was the first time I ever read that)

Motubu, Journal of Asian Martial Arts had a article a couple of years back, which motubu stated there was no family connection nor any training between the two men.
Where do you get your data??


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## koga ha (Mar 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Well basically anywhere but Durbin!!
> 
> In all the stories about Mitose there is no recollection of his travel throuughout Japan (In fact in Durbin's fiction was the first time I ever read that)
> 
> ...


Your comments lead me to believe that you should re-read the information again.  Slow down a little, so you don't miss or misinterpret what you are reading.  Thank you.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 17, 2005)

A breath of freash air and an excellent read? We have had this issue discussed ad nauseum by men on this board who are well-accomplished kenpo/kempo historians, and who have authored many of the best-researched articles on the history of Mitose, Nimrod Hassan, etc. Not an excellent read: A juvenile attempt at justifying ones own lineage, when it is not justifiable. At least get the Japanese honorifics right, and the use of title in writing (also beaten to death in other threads on this site).

I read it. It's silly. And if you opt to believe the grandiosity proclaimed in it, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. The whole "Koga Ha" thing has, itself, been beaten to death by better educated men without a stake in the outcome. Hassan is not a ninja. Mitose was not privvy to the secret teachings of koga-ryu ninjutsu adepts. Durbin made up his kyujite (however the hell he spells it), and granted some bunch of guys recognition ranks, who in turn recognized his. And to have the audacity to check in to a community of historians and law enforcement officials who know better with this clap-trap junk...

I've been wondering why they haven't responded to your posts. But I get it. Telling a hallucinating psychotic that he really isn't Richard Nixon...or a toaster, or tunafish sandwich, or vampire...will never cause him to sacrifice his buy-in to the alternate reality he's created for himself. What there is to be said, has been said. And if you're still choosing to believe in the preposterous...Well, it is America, and that (for a while, at least, and on some issues) grants you the right to free speech.

Good luck on your journey, and may you never fully believe your own delusions.

Dave


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## The Kai (Mar 17, 2005)

_"While the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten lists many facets about Ryu where a lineage is known, in regard to the Kosho Ryu there is no lineage given. This could be so, if Mitose, who traveled extensively to Japan, was the founder of the system and did so after being in the United States for a period of time. "
*Posted from the website*_

_"It might be asked, why did Mitose want to conceal the Okinawan connection of his art? The answer to this is two fold. First of all, Mitose was a very spiritual and peaceful man, as one of those who knew him in Hawaii put it, "he was a very nice person, if he wasn't, I wouldn't have studied with him". 

Karate as taught to Mitose by Choki Motobu, was complete and effective, yet Motobu himself had a less than sterling reputation. He was known as a person who would engage in combat for what most people would consider less than appropriate reasons. However, this reputation, while somewhat deserved, was not totally accurate. "
*Also Posted from the website*_

Alas, oh Obscure One what I am I misreading???

Do you have any other sources than Durbin, basically anything creditable??


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## koga ha (Mar 17, 2005)

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
			
		

> A breath of freash air and an excellent read? We have had this issue discussed ad nauseum by men on this board who are well-accomplished kenpo/kempo historians, and who have authored many of the best-researched articles on the history of Mitose, Nimrod Hassan, etc. Not an excellent read: A juvenile attempt at justifying ones own lineage, when it is not justifiable. At least get the Japanese honorifics right, and the use of title in writing (also beaten to death in other threads on this site).
> 
> I read it. It's silly. And if you opt to believe the grandiosity proclaimed in it, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. The whole "Koga Ha" thing has, itself, been beaten to death by better educated men without a stake in the outcome. Hassan is not a ninja. Mitose was not privvy to the secret teachings of koga-ryu ninjutsu adepts. Durbin made up his kyujite (however the hell he spells it), and granted some bunch of guys recognition ranks, who in turn recognized his. And to have the audacity to check in to a community of historians and law enforcement officials who know better with this clap-trap junk...
> 
> ...


i might respond when you start speaking in your big-boy voice.


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## koga ha (Mar 17, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> _"While the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten lists many facets about Ryu where a lineage is known, in regard to the Kosho Ryu there is no lineage given. This could be so, if Mitose, who traveled extensively to Japan, was the founder of the system and did so after being in the United States for a period of time. "_
> _*Posted from the website*_
> 
> _"It might be asked, why did Mitose want to conceal the Okinawan connection of his art? The answer to this is two fold. First of all, Mitose was a very spiritual and peaceful man, as one of those who knew him in Hawaii put it, "he was a very nice person, if he wasn't, I wouldn't have studied with him". _
> ...


the sentence stated mitose traveled TO japan, not in or throughout like you stated.  again, please slow down and read what is being wrote, not what you think it reads.


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## The Kai (Mar 17, 2005)

What does travelling extensively to a place supposed to mean?? But point taken the way it was written fooled my eye

Wasting time reading poorly written fiction, now I have to read to even more carefully!!


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## BlackCatBonz (Mar 17, 2005)

a lot of kempo newbies fall for durbin's stories


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i might respond when you start speaking in your big-boy voice.


Then don't respond. I reserve that voice for men of honor, not self-deluding wannabe's.

Y'all have fun.

D.


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## Matt (Mar 17, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> i might respond when you start speaking in your big-boy voice.



How's this for a big boy voice.



			
				Dr. William Durbin said:
			
		

> *****All conclusions in this article are mine.If anyone finds fault with them, please place any blame on me. From having talked to the above individuals, studied the personal writings of James Mitose, and read the many 'sources' that purport to be about the Mitose life. I plan to state in this article my personal conclusions and deal with the inconsistencies of Mitose's martial arts and life. Once again, the conclusions are mine, as my personal opinion. Nothing more can be said since the full truth went to the grave with Mitose, thus the best we can hope for is an attempt to piece the truth together. This is my best effort.



Dr. Durbin's effort is inadequate. Motobu Chosei has gone on record categorically stating that there is no relation to Mitose by family, and that there is no record of his training as a student with Motobu Choki. Durbin never met nor trained with Mitose. Durbin's impression of Mitose's trial appear to be the perspective of one who has not actually read the transcripts. As far as Terry Lee / Nimr Hassan's role as murderer, if you call breaking in and surprising an elderly gentleman and his wife as they slept and then stabbing the man with a screwdriver 'reasoning', than Durbin may be on to something. 

If we want to use opinion pieces, let's use mine,  at:

http://home.comcast.net/~matthewabarnes/mitose.html

It's not completely done yet, but, I like to call it:
*James Mitose: Conman and partner in a murder conspiracy or innocent victim of a vast conspiracy that was probably orchestrated by the real killer in the O.J. Simpson case?*

In case you have any illusions that Mitose trained with Motobu extensively, it references this map, as many people are not familiar with Japan, and are apparently of the mind that it is like a small town; if you and I travel there, we'll be destined to cross paths.  http://home.comcast.net/~matthewabarnes/map.html 
Seeing as it is instead hundreds of miles from where Mitose was to the closest dojo run by Motobu Sensei, it is unlikely that they trained together. 

I will say that Nimr Hassan does often get shortchanged in the estimation of his training in Martial arts. He was apparently a black belt when he met Mitose, so maybe he could have absorbed *two entire systems in those seven weeks. *Of course, if you've been training with him for more than seven weeks and you don't know the whole of the two systems, you should probably ask yourself, is he a lousy teacher, or are you just a horrible student. 


Matt


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Mar 18, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> What does travelling extensively to a place supposed to mean??


The phrase implies that Mitose made several trips to Japan - something which is totally unsupported by documentation (AFAIK).


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## koga ha (Mar 18, 2005)

matt, randy, kembudo, blackcatbonz, and kai...i really don't put a lot of weight to your comments and it's interesting how much energy and effort you put into trying to prove me wrong...  

i know each of you have heard this before or maybe not, but it's kind of like the tail thinking it's wagging the dog.  you guys are the tail.

i know you and others out there think along the same lines in regard to your comments; however, your little group is not the only people this information touches.

so, let me not keep you guys from making the same redundant comments.


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## The Kai (Mar 18, 2005)

It's ot always a good thing when a BS'er begins to believe his own lies, So Koga good luck.


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## Matt (Mar 18, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> matt, randy, kembudo, blackcatbonz, and kai...i really don't put a lot of weight to your comments and it's interesting how much energy and effort you put into trying to prove me wrong...



Actually, I just try to research, preserve and promote as much truth about kempo history as I can. That's where the effort goes. This isn't about you. Posts like yours just give me an opportunity to post a fact or two and spread the knowledge.   



> i know each of you have heard this before or maybe not, but it's kind of like the tail thinking it's wagging the dog.  you guys are the tail.



When the dog goes around posting wildly inaccurate history, it's good that the tail is around to set him straight. 



> i know you and others out there think along the same lines in regard to your comments; however, your little group is not the only people this information touches.



What exactly is my little group? Am I president of it? Do we have to have meetings? I hate meetings. 

If you are referring to a 'martial art' organization, I don't think I belong to any that you may have in mind. My posts don't necessarily reflect the views of any organizational entity, they are just mine. I'm just trying to be sure that the other people touched by your information have access to some facts in addition to what you are offering. 

If you are referring to us as a group because we all share a wacky preference for truth as opposed to fairly tales in martial arts biographies and history, then yes, I guess we are a group. 

No meetings though, I hate meetings. 




> so, let me not keep you guys from making the same redundant comments.



I think they seem redundant because one does not have to periodically change a story when it is based on facts. What exactly are you hoping for? 

Matt


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## koga ha (Mar 18, 2005)

Matt said:
			
		

> Actually, I just try to research, preserve and promote as much truth about kempo history as I can. That's where the effort goes. This isn't about you. Posts like yours just give me an opportunity to post a fact or two and spread the knowledge.
> 
> *if it's not about me, than why **don't you take the initiative and start a thread of your "facts".*
> 
> ...


*no, don't change your story, i was pointing out the fact that it is redundant.*


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## The Kai (Mar 18, 2005)

Again the truth is redundant.  It does't change, or make hugh leaps in logic.


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## koga ha (Mar 18, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Again the truth is redundant. It does't change, or make hugh leaps in logic.


no, what you're saying is redundant.


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## The Kai (Mar 18, 2005)

Can you explain yourself better


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## BlackCatBonz (Mar 18, 2005)

hey koga, tell us a little bit about your training history, and where your knowledge of the arts come from. how old are you?
if you want anyone on this board to take you the least bit seriously.....let us in on why you think "your" info is the truth


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## Matt (Mar 18, 2005)

koga ha said:
			
		

> *
> 
> if it's not about me, than why don't you take the initiative and start a thread of your "facts".*


Well, I do now and then, but actually, I tend to try to accumulate things on my website. Then anyone can look at them at their convenience, and find them via search engines. 



> *
> inaccurate to who? you? well, i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.*



Well, most of what Dr. Durbin writes is inaccurate to me and the State of California. And Nimr Hassan / Terry Lee's own words in the trial transcript. 



> *okay, oddly, so you're art is not kempo based; however, you have strong opinions on the subject. and you offer "facts" about kempo....oookay.*



My art? I don't own one. The art I practice? Yes, it's kempo. I don't tend to 'speak for' any given organization usually. Occasionally, but then I preface my comments with a disclaimer. I thought you might think my comments were the tool of some specific organization to somehow jockey for standing with or against Nimr Hassan. 



> *
> see above comment*



I did. 



> *
> sorry to hear that you don't like to get together and have a meeting of the minds. *


Meetings usually seem to me to be a forum for lots of talking, very little listening, and getting even less accomplished. I do enjoy a spirited debate though, *especially when someone can prove me wrong with facts I wasn't previously aware of* as that adds to the existing body of knowledge. 


> *
> no, don't change your story, i was pointing out the fact that it is redundant.no, don't change your story, i was pointing out the fact that it is redundant.*


I'm still not sure what you mean. 

Do you mean that it is redundant when I say:
Terry Lee studied with Mitose for about 7 weeks. 
Terry Lee was convicted of killing Frank Namimatsu. 
Dr. Durbin's writings are not thoroughly grounded in fact. 

Or is it something else. 

Help me out. 

Matt


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## Bester (Mar 21, 2005)

Koga,
  What were your resources for writing what you wrote?  Please cite them in the order of importance.  For websites, please indicate full URLs.  For books, please cite title, author, chapter, and pages if all possible.

Thank you.

AB


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## Bester (Mar 21, 2005)

Koga,
  Please define "Mitose, who traveled extensively to Japan"

What do you mean by "extensively"?

How many trips?
What were the destinations?
When were they?
Who did he meet with?
What were the purposes of the trips?
What were the durations?


You have numerous knowledgeable individuals stating that he did not do this. You state he did.  Well, please cite sources, etc. to back up your claims, which are not supported by any recognized experts in the arts that we can find.  You made the claim, therefore the responsibility of proving it is on you.  If you will not, or can not do so, you will be labeled as a fraud, and most likely electronically "tar and feathered", which never is very nice.


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## Bester (Mar 23, 2005)

Hmm.
No answer yet.
Must be busy at the library.


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## Bester (Mar 28, 2005)

Hmmm...."Last Activity: 03-25-2005 02:42 PM "

Guess rewriting history takes longer than you would think.

Hey, can you work in a part where my great grandpappy, Col. Beuraguard (CSA, RIP 1927) showed Ed Parkers grandfather the Souix knife fighting techniques that were later incorporated into the early kenpo system?  I've been trying to resolve that oversight for years.

Thank ye.


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## Bester (Apr 14, 2005)

Wow.
He was on today.
He made his claims almost a month ago, but can't seem to back them up.
Guess they were fiction after all.


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## The Kai (Apr 15, 2005)

Heck you know how hard it is to track a Ninja


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## koga ha (Apr 15, 2005)

Bester said:
			
		

> Wow.
> He was on today.
> He made his claims almost a month ago, but can't seem to back them up.
> Guess they were fiction after all.


i'm usually on...actually, i don't really bother myself trying to prove information to you.  really, who are you or what makes you think i need your stamp of approval...:rofl: 

take it for what its worth...you don't agree, fine.


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## koga ha (Apr 15, 2005)

kai, you strike me as an individual that runs with the pack and never by yourself.  so, wait for bester to respond and then you can back him up....


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## The Kai (Apr 15, 2005)

Okay, I'm outed-I just hope bester don't start spoon feeding me totally fraudulant history, fraudulant lineage claims and nonsense .  

Koga how do you handle it???


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## koga ha (Apr 18, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Okay, I'm outed-I just hope bester don't start spoon feeding me totally fraudulant history, fraudulant lineage claims and nonsense .
> 
> Koga how do you handle it???


well, one great thing about the human is the power of choice.  you choose to side with bester and his rendition of kempo history and lineage. 

how do i handle what?


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## The Kai (Apr 18, 2005)

Actually it's not just bester that believes the history, but like, 90 percent of the rational world.  But you seem to be happy with the BS that's being fed you.


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## koga ha (Apr 18, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Actually it's not just bester that believes the history, but like, 90 percent of the rational world. But you seem to be happy with the BS that's being fed you.


is this the 90% that believes in the belt system too?


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## The Kai (Apr 18, 2005)

Do you mean beleive in the history or the idea of the belt system.  I suppose a goo deal do beleive in the belt system.
Unless, of course the belt is issued by a Questionable source


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