# samurais



## Manny (Aug 25, 2010)

Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I wonder what kind of hand to hand martial arts practiced or used the ancient samurais? not weapons just bare hands or hand to hands close combat quarters used the samurais.

Manny


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## dancingalone (Aug 25, 2010)

It would be classical jujutsu.  I'm thinking that Edo jujutsu would be the right term, essentially jujutsu during the Edo period of Japanese history.  These were supposed to be techniques developed to be used off the battlefield with unarmored opponents.  Not sure if teachers still exist that can hand this down.

There are certainly koryu jujutsu systems still active today.  And plenty of gendai systems like aikido that descend from the koryu systems.


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## Tanaka (Aug 25, 2010)

Manny said:


> Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I wonder what kind of hand to hand martial arts practiced or used the ancient samurais? not weapons just bare hands or hand to hands close combat quarters used the samurais.
> 
> Manny


Look for any traditional Jujutsu system. By traditional, I mean those that are recognized Koryu. But the thing is... You might end up being taught weapons as well. Because the thing is... Samurai did not have to be cagefighters, NAGA champs, and K-1 stikers. Because they usually had weapons on them, until weapons became outlawed along with the warrior class. Now you have modern budo that focuses on unarmed combat.(Ex.Aikido)

Bujinkan, Genbukan, and Jinenkan schools might be what you're looking for. In these systems you will also be taught weapons though. 

Also you're doing extra work. There is no need for the extra (s) added to Samurai. Japanese language lacks grammatical number.


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## Bruno@MT (Aug 25, 2010)

I'd say Genbukan is your best bet because it has a daughter / sister organization KJJR which teaches the unarmed jujutsu of several traditional systems. I myself am a member of both Genbukan and KJJR.

However, I should point out that unarmed fighting for a samurai was unusual unless he really had no weapons at his disposal. Spear, bow and arrow, staff, sword, knife, ... that was not the usual case of course.


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## Chris Parker (Aug 26, 2010)

Oh, boy. This could be interesting. Are you ready, Manny? Okay!

The ancient samurai, well, the question is what do you mean by that? The samurai could refer to over 1,000 years of history, with very different ranges in martial art practices depending on time, location, and more.

The original samurai methodologies focused around mounted archery, later moving onto spearmanship and naginatajutsu on the battlefield. Unarmed was never really a big thing until later. At best it was a supplementary system for the worst-case scenario of losing your weapons on the battlefield. 

It later (primarily Edo-period, 17th Century onwards) came more to the fore, mainly as a way for samurai who had lost their main job to earn an income. This developed into what was refered to as "commoner's yawara, or commoner's jujutsu", and was typically a little simpler than the samurai forms themselves. Some samurai systems that retained their use took advantage of the peacetime to refine and expand their syllabus', leading to what most think of as a samurai jujutsu system. These include systems such as Sosuishitsu Ryu, Takenouchi Ryu, Takagi Ryu, and many more.

The question I would ask would be why you want the unarmed systems of such an archaic form? The technical methods are really not suited to todays violence, so you know, often being based around forms of clothing that you would find in old Japan, whether armour or kimono-style clothing, the methods of training are geared far more for preservation of teachings than realistic self defence, and so on.

Oh, and although it is common rhetoric for Aikido to be refered to as the "martial art of the samurai", it really isn't. It's removed from that by nearly 100 years, so you know.


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## Bruno@MT (Aug 26, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> The question I would ask would be why you want the unarmed systems of such an archaic form? The technical methods are really not suited to todays violence, so you know, often being based around forms of clothing that you would find in old Japan, whether armour or kimono-style clothing, the methods of training are geared far more for preservation of teachings than realistic self defence, and so on.



This is a point worth repeating. Just because the system was effective in its original context does not mean it is automatically effective now.

I love the traditional Japanese arts. I wouldn't trade them for anything else. But that is because I love the arts and the context surrounding them (culture and language), not because I believe that they are the most effective for self defense because they aren't by default.

Parts of them are, and if you want to use them for self defense, you really need to practice them outside of their original context and kata. And if you do that you aren't practicing the original art anymore; not by a long shot because you would need to make quite some changes in the things that are taught and the way they are taught.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 26, 2010)

I am biased of course but in my opinoin if you want well rounded Japanese Budo then training in the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan is the way to go.  Personally I prefer the *Bujinkan* because of the connection with Hatsumi Sensei.  However if you train in any of those you probably will enjoy it a lot!


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## Manny (Aug 26, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> The question I would ask would be why you want the unarmed systems of such an archaic form? The technical methods are really not suited to todays violence, so you know, often being based around forms of clothing that you would find in old Japan, whether armour or kimono-style clothing, the methods of training are geared far more for preservation of teachings than realistic self defence, and so on.


 
I don't want to train the bare hands self defense system of the samurais, I just wated to know what they used as a combat or self defense method. 
Times has changed alot since the samurais era-

Manny


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 26, 2010)

Manny, www.koryu.com is a good place to start researching classical Japanese martial arts. It's not updated nearly as often as I'd like but there's some very interesting information there, as well as good links to check out.

Pax,

Chris


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## Chris Parker (Aug 27, 2010)

Manny said:


> I don't want to train the bare hands self defense system of the samurais, I just wated to know what they used as a combat or self defense method.
> Times has changed alot since the samurais era-
> 
> Manny


 
Yes, it certainly has. For a quick look around here (just ones that I've been involved in), here's a few threads that may help:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73251 The Original Samurai Arts

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88960 What is Jujutsu

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79373 JJ and BJJ

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72719 Different Schools of Jujutsu.

That should keep you going for a bit, I think....


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