# Why train in the Philipines?



## The Game (May 4, 2006)

I have been looking at new training options rectently, and am wondering: With the number of compentant FMA intructors in North America, why go through the trouble of training in the PI?


----------



## HKphooey (May 4, 2006)

Due to the nature of the US and law suit happy citizens, many schools in the US do not train as hardcore as they may in the Philippines.  Also many schools and instructors may remove parts of the traditional training that is still taught in the Philippines (similar to the any of the other arts).


----------



## The Game (May 4, 2006)

Ok, so it can be more intense.  But, is it better? Cheaper? More "culturally accurate"/traditional? 

I hear you on the lawsuit happy bit though.  I stay away from McD just to avoid the folks juggling hot coffee.


----------



## Tarot (May 4, 2006)

I think that you also have to look at it from a spiritual point of view.  Going to the place where an art originated can give you a sense of it's history.  A sense of why it was developed and where it really came from.  It may also give you a sense of coming full circle.  Training in an art you love, and then being able to stand on the ground where it originated from, would create such emotion, that one would gain new perspective and appreciation.

That's my outlook, anyway. :asian:


----------



## HKphooey (May 4, 2006)

Good point.  When I mentioned "traditonal" I also meant the customs, the heritage, spirituality and the overall surroundings.


----------



## peter (May 4, 2006)

I found a totally different type of mind-set in the Philippines to the UK.  In the West, training in martial arts is often a hobby, leisure activity, social event and somewhere there may be the survival aspect.  In the Philippines, I certainly noticed immediately a different focus geared towards survival.  This made me realise that I was getting the "real deal."

Obviously understanding the culture, history language and lifestyle is of great benefit in understanding the FMA.

Gumagalang

Peter
www.yuli-romo.com
www.zubu-kali.co.uk
www.bakbakan.com


----------



## PeteNerd (May 4, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> I have been looking at new training options rectently, and am wondering: With the number of compentant FMA intructors in North America, why go through the trouble of training in the PI?



It's more intense.  It's not a game, it's not a hobby, it's real, really real.  Being there in the culture you get more out of it.  You also have more oppurtunity there to train one on one with a very competent instructor, which can be really beneficial.

Pete


----------



## Cruentus (May 5, 2006)

I am going to both agree and disagree with many of the posters here.

First off, if you have the right instructor and the right mentality you can train just as hardcore here as you could in any other country. I think that it is a huge myth that you have to go to the PI in order to get the "real deal." This is the same myth propigated by many foriegn (to the US) arts; you could pretty much fill in the blank with "China for gung-fu or "Japan" for a Judo and so forth. There are plenty of people who train with reality in mind in the US. They may not be the majority, but they exist. Besides, many successful instructors from the PI came to the US when they became successful. If they aren't actively teaching today, their students are. This means that you can find good instruction here.

Where I do agree about the benefits of going to the PI is that the cultural experience is important. It is nice to be able to get to experience the culture and traditions. These can only really be experienced to the fullest in your arts native land.

Paul


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 5, 2006)

I like the idea of exploring the cultural side of the arts.  Also, taking the time to look beyond the parameters of your own style can give you some other insights I think.


----------



## Jonathan Randall (May 5, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> I have been looking at new training options rectently, and am wondering: With the number of compentant FMA intructors in North America, why go through the trouble of training in the PI?


 
Good question. 

I think that some training in the country of origin for any art helps to put the art itself into cultural context for a student. Also, during your time in the country, you will probably learn enough about the language, customs, and aquire a sufficient "feeling" for authenticity (a somewhat nebulous concept, but valid nevertheless) to be able distinguish between qualified and unqualified American teachers as well as have a deeper understanding as a student, and perhaps, later teacher, of your art.


----------



## peter (May 5, 2006)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> First off, if you have the right instructor and the right mentality you can train just as hardcore here as you could in any other country. I think that it is a huge myth that you have to go to the PI in order to get the "real deal."
> Paul



Hi Paul

My comments about feeling the "real deal" were certainly not given lightly, or based on any so-called "myths."  I believe that myths are only there for the people who create them, or want to believe in them.  

With well over 30 years of involvement in martial arts, I have been very fortunate to have met and trained with many world-class masters and grandmasters.  Many of these promote "hardcore" training, just as I do, but in the West, there is often the "distraction" of commercialism, legislation, social benefits, titles etc.

What I have found in the Philippines is an approach totally lacking these "distractions" and a need, most likely driven by socio-cultural demands, for survival-based training, where live weapons are the norm.

I guess it boils down to what each person wants and needs from their training, and their willingness to embrace the lifestyle / culture in order to gain maximum benefit.

Just my observations -  no frills, no overselling and certainly, no "myths."

Regards

Peter


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (May 5, 2006)

When I was in India and Japan last for training, I did not notice any concerns from the instructors regarding lawsuits. Concerns certainly for student safety but not for lawsuits. Training was definately good and 
hardcore.

However, I have to agree with Paul in that here in the States you can definately find fantastic training and people interested in pushing the envelop if you are willing to look around.

That being said, I would recommend anyone to go over seas and train in their respective martial art to experience the differances and the culturally significant experience. It is absolutely GREAT! :ultracool 

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


----------



## Cruentus (May 5, 2006)

peter said:
			
		

> Just my observations - no frills, no overselling and certainly, no "myths."


 
Observations are always filtered through the observer.

The notion that one can ONLY recieve high quality training based in reality from the country of the arts origin is a popular "myth" that has existed for decades now; regardless of art of country of origin.

You, of course, are free to believe what you want. While I, of course, can respectfully disagree.

That said, I am willing to to put what I say to the test with my open door policy. I would put our training (Tulisan Company) as well as the training offered from many groups in my network up against other methods from any other country. You, or anyone else, is welcome to come to Michigan and see what we are up too, or invite me or one of our networked instructors down to teach, and see for yourself. This open door policy is offered in the nature of friendlyness and the good spirit of training and learning, of course; not to be implied as a challange or in a negative way.

That all said, I am a professional who does his own research, and who knows a myth when he see's one; so I will stand by my statements on the matter....

Disagreements can be a healthy way to discover knowledge.

With Respect,

Paul Janulis


----------



## MJS (May 5, 2006)

One of my instructors in going to the Philipines in July to do some teaching and training.  I'm looking forward to hearing about this upon his return.  

I agree that there are some great instructors here that can offer some excellent training.  I think that the idea of making the trip could be for the historical and cultural purposes.  Going to the homeland does give it a different feel.  

Mike


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 5, 2006)

The Game said:
			
		

> I have been looking at new training options rectently, and am wondering: With the number of compentant FMA intructors in North America, why go through the trouble of training in the PI?


 

Because there can be good people to train with in the PI. There also can be average and bad. Know your subject and do your research before just paying someone to teach you something. Here or overseas.




			
				HKphooey said:
			
		

> Due to the nature of the US and law suit happy citizens, many schools in the US do not train as hardcore as they may in the Philippines. Also many schools and instructors may remove parts of the traditional training that is still taught in the Philippines (similar to the any of the other arts).


 
Many is not All.

I know some who modified the art in the PI. Does this make them bad guys? No, it mean they modified. If they take credit for it then people understand where the modification came from and when someone does research they understand the similiarities and differences. 



			
				Tarot said:
			
		

> I think that you also have to look at it from a spiritual point of view. Going to the place where an art originated can give you a sense of it's history. A sense of why it was developed and where it really came from. It may also give you a sense of coming full circle. Training in an art you love, and then being able to stand on the ground where it originated from, would create such emotion, that one would gain new perspective and appreciation.
> 
> That's my outlook, anyway. :asian:


 
Culture is a wonderfult thing, and that alone is a reason to go. No matter what else happens, it will be worth while to see the culture. 




			
				peter said:
			
		

> I found a totally different type of mind-set in the Philippines to the UK. In the West, training in martial arts is often a hobby, leisure activity, social event and somewhere there may be the survival aspect. In the Philippines, I certainly noticed immediately a different focus geared towards survival. This made me realise that I was getting the "real deal."
> 
> Obviously understanding the culture, history language and lifestyle is of great benefit in understanding the FMA.
> 
> ...


 
Well I have met some people from the PI who do not even know there are FMA's. I have met some who were mad when they found out that a "Round Eye" (* I used their term when describing me in their anger *) had learned their art. 

While those who studied the FMA's the most were from the working classes, the FMA's had for a very long time been seen as a low thing. SOmehting a Street Thug or criminal would use. 

Given this environment for survivial on the street I can see where it might be considered the "Real Deal". Not having the pleasure to be there yet myself, I can only speculate. But I have been and lived in bad cities before and I have used the systems I studied for the real deal. Yet, I do not say that everyone has to come to Flint Michigan "The Worst Place To Live" in the USA during the 80's and also in the top 10 consistantly for violent crime nationwide but no where near the top ten in volume of citizens. If you do not train here then your training means nothing. 

What one needs is to have the desire to learn and then do the research and find someone to trian with. Problem here is like the people of the PI who do not even know there are FMA's there are people in the West (* NA and Europe *) who go for the closest school as it is convienent to their schedule and do not research upon the art or the instructor. 

Go to an inner city and ask any Gang Member to teach you self defense you can find some "Real Deal" there as well. 

No disrespect to those who do go and train. I am not saying that the PI cannot have the "Real Deal" only that it is not exclusive to anyone or any system or location. 




			
				PeteNerd said:
			
		

> It's more intense. It's not a game, it's not a hobby, it's real, really real. Being there in the culture you get more out of it. You also have more oppurtunity there to train one on one with a very competent instructor, which can be really beneficial.
> 
> Pete


 
While I agree it is not a hobby, yet if you see my comments above, about it is not as wide spread as some may think it is. 

As to the One on One, I Agree this is the best method of training and best return for the buck. But as I stated above people all over including those in the PI that send their kids to KMA and JMA schools becuase they wear nice uniforms and all look alike and move together, you get the same here in the USA.

It is not unique to the location.

What you need is the desire and a good instructor. 

If you go to the PI you have usually proven your desire (* excluding the myth type people *), and now one just needs to find a good instructor. 

Yet the same person who will fly around the world to get to the PI will not fly 3 hours with in the USA to see someone, even if they came from the PI.

My Point to all this is the following:

There is no superior Martial Art.

There is no Superior Location to train an art.

There are superior instructors.

There are superior practitioners. 


One should be able to find them here in the USA and in the PI. 

And to restate from earlier, still go and see the culture. Enjoy the trip and have fun and if you can train more power to you.


----------



## Carol (May 5, 2006)

Had a GREAT chat about this with my neighbor, who is Filipino-American and used to train in the FMAs but not much anymore.  By "train" he seemed to largely mean that he learned what a few uncles have taught him...but I don't know if he was using "uncle" in the biological sense or in the Asian sense (conveying the sense of family to other adults that one respects).

His take...researching an instructor is important, whether here or there.  There are good teachers here, good teachers there.   He said there are a lot of scammers in the Philippines that try to take money off gullible westerners (sometimes forcefullly) and just like any place else, one needs to know who one talks to, esp. when going in to a strange place.

I asked him about the "real deal" and he kind of laughed.   He mentioned that one can get the "real deal" here as well, but there is a difference in the enviroment.  There are many places in the Philipines where one can find an excellent instructor but sometimes be in training conditions that are kind of stark.   He thought, like here, you can find someone with a nice, modern, Air-conditioned place...but more often you might be in a place with sweaty walls and little protection against the heat and the humdity.

The one thing that was kind of interesting was when he pulled out a set of rattan sticks and said he keeps them because they reminded him of home and got in to a story about how hard it is to work with the plant...and the discussion went kind of off topic from there and he got in to his family and friends that are still there, etc...but at one point he did say that the best reason to go to the Philippines was...to go to the Philippines and speak some bad Tagalog and experience it all.


----------



## Rich Parsons (May 6, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Had a GREAT chat about this with my neighbor, who is Filipino-American and used to train in the FMAs but not much anymore. By "train" he seemed to largely mean that he learned what a few uncles have taught him...but I don't know if he was using "uncle" in the biological sense or in the Asian sense (conveying the sense of family to other adults that one respects).



i.e. Manong a Cebuano term meaning respected Elder usually familiy. Closest translation to English is "Uncle" or "Aunt".


----------



## kruzada (May 10, 2006)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Besides, many successful instructors from the PI came to the US when they became successful. If they aren't actively teaching today, their students are. This means that you can find good instruction here.
> 
> Paul



"Some" of the best Instructors might have immigrated to the U.S., but there are many more that either have not had the means to travel abroad, or did not feel compelled to leave the P.I. 

In any case, There are so many different styles of FMA in the Philippines that cannot be found anywhere else in the world. It is definitely worth travelling to the P.I. to discover the difference between what is taught abroad, and how things are done in the motherland.

The 3rd FMA Festival is in the Philippines in July, many FMA masters from different styles will be teaching there. www.fmafestival2006.com .

-Rich Acosta


----------

