# I'm Looking to buy a 48" White Wax Wood Stick



## tapadista (Sep 16, 2007)

I practice original tapado. I've been in the US for a year and still can't seem to find good sticks for my art. I've been reading about white wax wood and am intrested in aquiring it for tapado. It is stong, light and will not break or shatter ( a common problem with hardwood sticks). I've tried dowels htat you can buy at home depot with unsatisfactory results. If you would like to see what kind of abuse the stick will take, check out "Tapado" videos on you tube. Search "original tapado" or user "Ka69er". 

I would like to try white wax wood. Where can i source raw white wax wood? I see a lot of commericalized ones, but i'm sure there is somewhere i can get it cheaper than $19.99. If anyone could help me out, that would be great.


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 16, 2007)

tapadista said:


> I practice original tapado. I've been in the US for a year and still can't seem to find good sticks for my art. I've been reading about white wax wood and am intrested in aquiring it for tapado. It is stong, light and will not break or shatter ( a common problem with hardwood sticks). I've tried dowels htat you can buy at home depot with unsatisfactory results. If you would like to see what kind of abuse the stick will take, check out "Tapado" videos on you tube. Search "original tapado" or user "Ka69er".
> 
> I would like to try white wax wood. Where can i source raw white wax wood? I see a lot of commericalized ones, but i'm sure there is somewhere i can get it cheaper than $19.99. If anyone could help me out, that would be great.



Where are you? The Cold Steel Challenge is coming up soon in Ventura California, & they're going to have another parking lot sale. I got two 4' Wax Wood staffs there in the spring. If you have access, go down there & get some.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah, where are you?  Lots of suppliers offer them, Brendan Lai in San Francisco has them and they can probably ship to you.  But $20 is not a bad price if it is a good piece.  Also, are you looking for something thin and light, or thicker and more stout?  That will also affect the price.  Probably 6-7 feet long is more standard, as these are generally used for staff and spear, so you might not have a choice but to buy extra long, and cut to your needed length.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 16, 2007)

another thought: wax wood is tough and flexible, but can certainly splinter and break, especially after repeated striking.  If you are practicing a Philippine art and the sticks will be repeatedly struck and abused, expect them to break at some point.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 16, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> another thought: wax wood is tough and flexible, but can certainly splinter and break, especially after repeated striking. If you are practicing a Philippine art and the sticks will be repeatedly struck and abused, expect them to break at some point.


 
I am not impressed with wax wood they splinter way to easily for my liking.  Best to use rattan for striking with other people and hardwood for solo practice.


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## MJS (Sep 16, 2007)

tapadista said:


> I practice original tapado. I've been in the US for a year and still can't seem to find good sticks for my art. I've been reading about white wax wood and am intrested in aquiring it for tapado. It is stong, light and will not break or shatter ( a common problem with hardwood sticks). I've tried dowels htat you can buy at home depot with unsatisfactory results. If you would like to see what kind of abuse the stick will take, check out "Tapado" videos on you tube. Search "original tapado" or user "Ka69er".
> 
> I would like to try white wax wood. Where can i source raw white wax wood? I see a lot of commericalized ones, but i'm sure there is somewhere i can get it cheaper than $19.99. If anyone could help me out, that would be great.


 
Not sure how far you're willing to go for sticks, but these are some excellent sticks.  Ron is a good guy.  I've known him for a while.  I have a few pairs of these sticks and they're still holding up strong.  They're slightly longer than your average stick and they are a bit heavier.  Working with them for a while, and you'll definately start to feel a burn in the arms/forearms. 

Mike


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## Flying Crane (Sep 16, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I am not impressed with wax wood they splinter way to easily for my liking. Best to use rattan for striking with other people and hardwood for solo practice.


 

Yes, for the right purpose they work very well, but for the wrong thing, they just will not stand up.

One thing I do to toughen wax wood is sand it, burn it with a torch to the point where the surface is darkened, then rub several coats of linseed oil or dutch oil into it.  The oil will cure and harden, and this gives the wood some extra stiffness and hardens it up a bit, it seems to stand up to abuse a bit better. 

But I agree, I'm not sure waxwood is a great choice for Philippene systems


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 16, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Yes, for the right purpose they work very well, but for the wrong thing, they just will not stand up.
> 
> One thing I do to toughen wax wood is sand it, burn it with a torch to the point where the surface is darkened, then rub several coats of linseed oil or dutch oil into it.  The oil will cure and harden, and this gives the wood some extra stiffness and hardens it up a bit, it seems to stand up to abuse a bit better.
> 
> But I agree, I'm not sure waxwood is a great choice for Philippene systems



I bought a bunch of 22"-24" wax wood sticks, sanded them down & soaked them in linseed oil for two days, set them up to dry and sanded them down again. They bled a little more oil for a few days, & I just wipe them down & sand them a little. We beat the hell out of them with no problems. I mean really beat the hell out of them. We practice Decuerdas Escrima, a Filipino system, & we also use them for Silat. Hard impacts against wood, & aluminum trainers also.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 16, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> I bought a bunch of 22"-24" wax wood sticks, sanded them down & soaked them in linseed oil for two days, set them up to dry and sanded them down again. They bled a little more oil for a few days, & I just wipe them down & sand them a little. We beat the hell out of them with no problems. I mean really beat the hell out of them. We practice Decuerdas Escrima, a Filipino system, & we also use them for Silat. Hard impacts against wood, & aluminum trainers also.


 

cool, I didn't know they could take that much.  Definitely requires the treatment tho, to toughen them up.


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## arnisador (Sep 16, 2007)

What are tapado sticks usually made of? Not rattan?


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 17, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> cool, I didn't know they could take that much.  Definitely requires the treatment tho, to toughen them up.



Oh yeah. I can't think of a wood that wouldn't benefit tremendously from the right oil treatment (linseed or tung oil being the best IMO). Hickory, Ash, White Oak, Purple Heart, or any of the more exotic hard woods. A little oil goes along way!


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> Oh yeah. I can't think of a wood that wouldn't benefit tremendously from the right oil treatment (linseed or tung oil being the best IMO). Hickory, Ash, White Oak, Purple Heart, or any of the more exotic hard woods. A little oil goes along way!


 

What do you think of Dutch Oil?  I've read that it cures to a higher hardness than linseed oil.  I've finished most of my staffs and spears with linseed oil, but I've got one I did with Dutch.  The Dutch doesn't seem to darken over time so it doesn't become as pretty.  I don't tend to smash my staffs together much so I haven't really tested the hardness fully.  Just curious if you've experimented with it.


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 17, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> What do you think of Dutch Oil?  I've read that it cures to a higher hardness than linseed oil.  I've finished most of my staffs and spears with linseed oil, but I've got one I did with Dutch.  The Dutch doesn't seem to darken over time so it doesn't become as pretty.  I don't tend to smash my staffs together much so I haven't really tested the hardness fully.  Just curious if you've experimented with it.



No I haven't used Dutch oil to be honest. I have mixed other oils into the final coat, such as essential oils to make the stick smell good. Flower oils or citrus oils are great for those that just don't like linseed's smell.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> No I haven't used Dutch oil to be honest. I have mixed other oils into the final coat, such as essential oils to make the stick smell good. Flower oils or citrus oils are great for those that just don't like linseed's smell.


 

Never thought of that.  Thanks!


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## tapadista (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow, great input guys. I'l try the wax wood and cure it and see what happens. We traditionally use the stalk of the coffee tree.  the diameter would usually be in the 1" to  1.5" at the base and taper a little at the end depending on the best part of the tree.  I'm in Dallas, TX. Now i just need to get some wax wood.


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## tapadista (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> Oh yeah. I can't think of a wood that wouldn't benefit tremendously from the right oil treatment (linseed or tung oil being the best IMO). Hickory, Ash, White Oak, Purple Heart, or any of the more exotic hard woods. A little oil goes along way!



Hmm, btw, wer can i get the oils? Home depot or someplace like that? and, what exactly is your process and technique for soaking  them? Do you just stick them in a pool of oil? How long is the drying out process?


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

You could try calling Brendan Lai's in San Francisco, their phone number is 415-626-8850, and see if they can ship to you.  

Tell them that Michael Schaefer sent you.  I know them well enough, they might treat you extra nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

Or else, send me a PM, I might be able to sacrifice a staff for you.  I've got a couple extras, I just finished oiling one, and if the size and dimensions are close enough, I could cut it to length and send to you.  Not sure how much I would charge you, but we could discuss it a bit.  I'll give it a few more coats of oil to be safe, and you can always add more later.  I don't know how Doc Jude soaks them, but I just rub it in with a rag and let it dry, then repeat.  I think it helps if you warm the oil a bit first.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

tapadista said:


> Hmm, btw, wer can i get the oils? Home depot or someplace like that? and, what exactly is your process and technique for soaking them? Do you just stick them in a pool of oil? How long is the drying out process?


 
any hardware store should have it, as well as some hobby and art stores.  Artists often mix it with paint for various reasons.  There are a couple different types of linseed oil, depending on how it is processed.  Some of them don't cure as well and stay greasy.  I think it's Boiled Linseed oil that you want, tho I don't remember for sure.  I'll have to check the label on my can at home.


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 20, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> You could try calling Brendan Lai's in San Francisco, their phone number is 415-626-8850, and see if they can ship to you.
> 
> Tell them that Michael Schaefer sent you.  I know them well enough, they might treat you extra nice
> 
> ...



I found the best way to do it is put the sticks into large PVC pipe with something on top to hold them under the oil. I use a rock. I don't like handling the linseed oil too much since its supposedly carcinogenic.

I like doing it that way better, it gives the oil time to soak in, & then I just sand it a few times & it works well for me. Though, sanding and hand applying works well too. I've done that with Tung oil & it worked great.

Oh, & for the oil, check the hardware store, or paint supply. Google Polymerized Linseed oil or Tung oil, they work great & are easy to get.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> I found the best way to do it is put the sticks into large PVC pipe with something on top to hold them under the oil. I use a rock. I don't like handling the linseed oil too much since its supposedly carcinogenic.


 
not a bad idea, but I'm usually preparing staffs approaching 7 feet.  I'd need quite a lot of oil to fill that pipe, and a place to store it in the mean time.



> I like doing it that way better, it gives the oil time to soak in, & then I just sand it a few times & it works well for me. Though, sanding and hand applying works well too. I've done that with Tung oil & it worked great.


 
I don't generally sand between coats, as I feel like I'm removing what I just applied.  Instead, I sand first, then rub in several coats, let it cure overnight between coats. I just dampen a rag with oil and rub it in, it only takes a minute or two per coat.  Wear rubber gloves, or at least disposable exam gloves, you can get about 50 for maybe $15 at walgreens, or at a hardware store, as I have also heard you don't want to really handle the oil with bare skin.  I guess once it drys, it's OK, tho.  Doc Jude, care to comment on that?

Another thing: oil soaked rags can spontaneously combust if you just toss them in the trash.  I put them in a plastic bag and fill it with water before throwing it out.


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## kosho (Sep 20, 2007)

I had some   ( ash )   jo's made for my dojo. 

50 inches in hight. 1 inch wide.

 all hand made. took some time but worth the wait.

love them.

kosho


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 20, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> not a bad idea, but I'm usually preparing staffs approaching 7 feet.  I'd need quite a lot of oil to fill that pipe, and a place to store it in the mean time.



I cap the PVC tube so the oil lasts awhile, but I usually process enough sticks to displace the oil to a level over the sticks. That way it's less oil. A quick spin of the tube makes sure that oil is uniform over sticks. I keep the tube vertical, just leaning in a corner of the garage. A gallon or two of linseed oil isn't much, esp if you plan on doing this as a hobby or a vocation. It works well. Tung oil is great too, esp as a final coat over linseed oil.

***WOA: after soaking, most woods will bleed oil for a period of time. Just let them dry after soaking & check from time to time. Wipe off excess oil or lightly sand off dried oil.



Flying Crane said:


> I don't generally sand between coats, as I feel like I'm removing what I just applied.  Instead, I sand first, then rub in several coats, let it cure overnight between coats. I just dampen a rag with oil and rub it in, it only takes a minute or two per coat.  Wear rubber gloves, or at least disposable exam gloves, you can get about 50 for maybe $15 at walgreens, or at a hardware store, as I have also heard you don't want to really handle the oil with bare skin.  I guess once it drys, it's OK, tho.  Doc Jude, care to comment on that?



No, that's what I said. "Sand & Hand Apply". Yes, wear gloves when handling linseed oil or most other oils. It's just not as messy. You don't need to used a degreaser to really clean your hands & you aren't handling cancer-causing materials. 
I usually let the oil dry before I sand, tho I've heard of some "wet sanding". I tried it. It used up a lot of sand paper.
Once the linseed oil is dry, sand it & then a coat or two of tung oil over that should do the trick. That way, little to no linseed oil comes in contact with the skin.
Keep in mind, also, that natural hand oils will also keep the stick somewhat conditioned. If cracks occur, try repairing with tung oil (if fills the cracks & tends to pull the wood together)



Flying Crane said:


> Another thing: oil soaked rags can spontaneously combust if you just toss them in the trash.  I put them in a plastic bag and fill it with water before throwing it out.



That is true. Be careful when disposing of oil-soaked rags. Oil combustion sucks, esp when you're not home to deal with it. I keep all oil-soaked rags outside in a large #10 can.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> Once the linseed oil is dry, sand it & then a coat or two of tung oil over that should do the trick. That way, little to no linseed oil comes in contact with the skin.


 
Is it your opinion that linseed oil actually remains hazardous after it is dry?  I know it is often used to finish wood, including furniture, but I've never heard anyone suggest you should put something else over the top of it to act as a barrier to the touch.


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 20, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Is it your opinion that linseed oil actually remains hazardous after it is dry?  I know it is often used to finish wood, including furniture, but I've never heard anyone suggest you should put something else over the top of it to act as a barrier to the touch.



I don't know, I usually like to ere on the side of caution. Besides, I have a lil' tin of tung oil, so it's not a hassle. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. I have yet to get cancer, but hey! why tempt fate?


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> I don't know, I usually like to ere on the side of caution. Besides, I have a lil' tin of tung oil, so it's not a hassle. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. I have yet to get cancer, but hey! why tempt fate?


 

Yes, i agree, I tend to err on the side of caution if I can.

Linseed oil is often promoted as something that can always be re-added in the future if need be, like if the wood gets scuffed.  If it is covered with something else like tung oil, I guess that would make it impossible to add more coats, so I always just figured it wasn't a problem after it cured.

I have other sensitivity issues with wood.  I've done some work with exotic hardwoods, and found out the hard way that they can cause some nasty skin irritations that like to stick around once you get it.  The exotics in particular, stuff from South America and Africa, are often especially problematic, as the wood itself has natural defensive properties.  Not everyone is sensitive, but sensitivity can develop over time and with repeated exposure, and I definitely am.  

I get a steroid cream from my doctor and it helps a lot, but it seems like I always have a small level of irritation that sticks around.  I don't work with the exotics anymore, but it seems like I am just sort of sensitive to wood in general now, perhaps.  Not sure exactly, I'm always handling stuff and it's hard to say specifically what is the cause now.

So I definitely keep skin barriers in mind when I am working with wood.

When I make a sword handle or scabbard, if it is one that I intend to keep for my own use, I am now coating it with a thick, sort of rubbery epoxy mix that is often used for coating things like bar counters.  It creates a definite barrier, where I think the oil finishes often don't completely seal the wood from contact with the skin.  Problem is, it's tough to apply to a round piece like a staff, as it takes several hours to dry, and it continues to run for the duration.  I prop the end of the piece between two supports, and I turn it over every few minutes to keep it from dripping off, until it dries sufficiently to stop running.  But I need to babysit it for about 5-6 hours before I can leave it alone.  Tough to do with a 7 foot staff, I rent and dont have a garage, so I do a lot of this work in my living room.


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## Doc_Jude (Sep 20, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Yes, i agree, I tend to err on the side of caution if I can.
> 
> Linseed oil is often promoted as something that can always be re-added in the future if need be, like if the wood gets scuffed.  If it is covered with something else like tung oil, I guess that would make it impossible to add more coats, so I always just figured it wasn't a problem after it cured.


 When have you had to re-treat with anything but tung oil if tung oil was applied in the first place? I never have. Just me.



Flying Crane said:


> I have other sensitivity issues with wood.  I've done some work with exotic hardwoods, and found out the hard way that they can cause some nasty skin irritations that like to stick around once you get it.  The exotics in particular, stuff from South America and Africa, are often especially problematic, as the wood itself has natural defensive properties.  Not everyone is sensitive, but sensitivity can develop over time and with repeated exposure, and I definitely am.
> 
> I get a steroid cream from my doctor and it helps a lot, but it seems like I always have a small level of irritation that sticks around.  I don't work with the exotics anymore, but it seems like I am just sort of sensitive to wood in general now, perhaps.  Not sure exactly, I'm always handling stuff and it's hard to say specifically what is the cause now.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you know what you're doing. I have a ball messing with this stuff.

Also, for folks just getting into woodworking, some woods are NOT GOOD FOR THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM (black walnut, etc). It's always a good idea to wear at least a painting mask while sanding, if there is wood dust in the air.


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## tapadista (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm really glad i started this thread. You guys have turned me with a great intrest to this woodwork.  so much info in such a short time.  I can't wait to go and try this out for myself.  i can already imagine my pvc tubes all lined up.  

I assume that this curing process would add weight to the stick?


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

Doc_Jude said:


> When have you had to re-treat with anything but tung oil if tung oil was applied in the first place? I never have. Just me.


 
Duh-OH!  Good point.  Brain turned off for a minute.  all these oil finishes can be reapplied.



> Sounds like you know what you're doing. I have a ball messing with this stuff.
> 
> Also, for folks just getting into woodworking, some woods are NOT GOOD FOR THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM (black walnut, etc). It's always a good idea to wear at least a painting mask while sanding, if there is wood dust in the air.


 
Yeah, it's fun stuff, most of what I do, I sort of figured out for myself.

Yes, working with wood can be hazardous for the health, make sure you have good ventilation, and definitely wear a filter respirator when sanding.

Cocobolo is notorious for causing health problems.  Workshops often post rules:

Rule #1:  Everyone is allergic to Cocobolo
Rule #2:  If you aren't allergic to Cocobolo, you will be.

It's beautiful stuff and working with wood is a lot of fun, but take some safety precautions.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 20, 2007)

tapadista said:


> I'm really glad i started this thread. You guys have turned me with a great intrest to this woodwork. so much info in such a short time. I can't wait to go and try this out for myself. i can already imagine my pvc tubes all lined up.
> 
> I assume that this curing process would add weight to the stick?


 
The way I have been doing it, not noticeably.  If you let it soak for a couple days, I dunno, maybe.


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