# Cheness Bujinkan Katana



## Cryozombie (Jul 6, 2006)

Cheness Cutlery released a new Kat this month called the 

"Oniyuri Custom Bujinkan Katana"

I was looking at their Onibasu, because it was the closest thing I could find to a Togakure-ryu sword, but now I see that they have this one...

What do you guys think?


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## Tengu6 (Jul 6, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Cheness Cutlery released a new Kat this month called the
> 
> "Oniyuri Custom Bujinkan Katana"
> 
> ...


 
Mine will be here any day, I am reviewing it for bujinmag.com, it should be live next week.

Markk Bush


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 6, 2006)

Hey Mark,

I look forward to your review in BujinMag.com!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Cryozombie (Jul 6, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> Mine will be here any day, I am reviewing it for bujinmag.com, it should be live next week.
> 
> Markk Bush



I have one coming too... I had to get one.

I hope you remembered to get the one without the Bo-hi this time.


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## Kreth (Jul 7, 2006)

Are these the guys that have made swords for Hatsumi sensei in the past?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 7, 2006)

Jeff,

No I do not believe it is them. (though I am not one hundred percent sure)   However, they have observed that there is a growing need for these types of training tools and hopefully their product will be good.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Kreth (Jul 7, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> Jeff,
> 
> No I do not believe it is them. (though I am not one hundred percent sure) However, they have observed that there is a growing need for these types of training tools and hopefully their product will be good.
> 
> ...


Well... I guess my next question would be... Do they have permission to use the Bujinkan name?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 7, 2006)

My guess would be probably not!  Good question.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Tengu6 (Jul 7, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> Well... I guess my next question would be... Do they have permission to use the Bujinkan name?


 
This is a touchy situation, as they did not try to capitalize on the Bujinkan name out of the blue, rather some Bujinkan students asked them to make the sword to certain specs..........so the name is only used for identification purposes. The next question you might ask is "why did they not just make the ones for those who requested them". Well, since it takes a long time (and money) to create a sword, they had more made as other students would shurely want them.

Really, if you talk to them you will see that there was no ill intent in the use of the name, especially since the owners are not Bujinkan practitioners and probably couldn't care less if we have the sword. I think we are fortunate that someone had them made for us.

Markk Bush


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## Kreth (Jul 7, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> This is a touchy situation, as they did not try to capitalize on the Bujinkan name out of the blue, rather some Bujinkan students asked them to make the sword to certain specs..........so the name is only used for identification purposes. The next question you might ask is "why did they not just make the ones for those who requested them". Well, since it takes a long time (and money) to create a sword, they had more made as other students would shurely want them.


I read the description, so I knew it wasn't a cheap knockoff with the Bujinkan name slapped on. With morons like the head of the Bujinkan Brian Dojo running around, it is indeed a touchy subject from both sides.


> Really, if you talk to them you will see that there was no ill intent in the use of the name, especially since the owners are not Bujinkan practitioners and probably couldn't care less if we have the sword. I think we are fortunate that someone had them made for us.


They do look nice. And I would consider buying one in the future (read "when I can sneak a new toy purchase by the gf" :lol. I wasn't trying to paint anyone in a bad light, I was just honestly curious if this was some kind of "official" product.


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## Tengu6 (Jul 7, 2006)

Kreth said:
			
		

> I read the description, so I knew it wasn't a cheap knockoff with the Bujinkan name slapped on. With morons like the head of the Bujinkan Brian Dojo running around, it is indeed a touchy subject from both sides.
> 
> They do look nice. And I would consider buying one in the future (read "when I can sneak a new toy purchase by the gf" :lol. I wasn't trying to paint anyone in a bad light, I was just honestly curious if this was some kind of "official" product.


 
I'm curious to see how they handle. I urged them to make a mogito version as I think people would be using them with a training partner as opposed to cutting exclusively, they wanted to see if there were a lot of requests for that, so we shall see.

Markk Bush


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## Don Roley (Jul 8, 2006)

The ironic thing is that the tsuka is too long.

The last time Hatsumi got the mogito made for Togakure ryu, it was the year after he had the Kukishin sword made. The tsuka for the Kukishin sword is supposed to be longer than normal. The Togakure ryu sword is supposed to be longer than that for a wakizashi, but only about as big as for a normal katana.

Well, the maker came back with the sword with a tsuka the same length as he had made for the Kukishin sword. Someya has the older version Hatsumi commisioned and if you try doing things like _kage no itto_ with both you see the advantages of the correct version.

Any way to get one with the tsuka the same size as for a normal katana?


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## Tengu6 (Jul 8, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> The ironic thing is that the tsuka is too long.
> 
> The last time Hatsumi got the mogito made for Togakure ryu, it was the year after he had the Kukishin sword made. The tsuka for the Kukishin sword is supposed to be longer than normal. The Togakure ryu sword is supposed to be longer than that for a wakizashi, but only about as big as for a normal katana.
> 
> ...


 
I remember Luke Molitor saying that there were no set specs, that the Togakure ryu sword was customized for te users specific needs. tht being said, I am sure certain specs work best for certain applications.

The Cheness swords seem to be in a constant state of improvement and alteration, be it better steel, hardening process, fittings, etc.. I know that were working on about 3 variations of this one.

 I will ask about the handle length. Would 11-12" be what your looking for?

Markk Bush


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 8, 2006)

I am definately interested in one but I need to see a review of it first.
I rarely buy lower end live sword's though.  I generally prefer to save and buy live shinken of quality.  If they had a mogito version I would probably buy one tomorrow.  It is very cool though in the last few years the increasing number of people making Budo Taijutsu products.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I look forward to your review Mark and Technopunk's as well!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Tengu6 (Jul 8, 2006)

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> I rarely buy lower end live sword's though. I generally prefer to save and buy live shinken of quality. If they had a mogito version I would probably buy one tomorrow.
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


 
At thier price you could remove the edge and have a nice mogito. The spring steel is highly resistant to bending, one reviewer bent the blade at 90 degrees and it went right back. hopefully the blade has a good feel.

Markk Bush


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 8, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> At thier price you could remove the edge and have a nice mogito. The spring steel is highly resistant to bending, one reviewer bent the blade at 90 degrees and it went right back. hopefully the blade has a good feel.
> 
> Markk Bush


 
Hey Mark,

That is definately a very good point!  I am looking forward to hearing what you and technopunk think when you get your sword in.  Take care.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Cryozombie (Jul 8, 2006)

Yeah, I was hoping mine would be here today, but no luck.

Last sword I ordered from them came in 4 days, so I was hoping the same of this one... no such luck.​


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## Don Roley (Jul 10, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> I will ask about the handle length. Would 11-12" be what your looking for?



That would be about right- but I can't own a copy here in Japan. If they make it still a few years from now, I can get a real version of a sword that I have been practicing with for years in Japan. Heck, for that matter, since the version I have is the one with the long tsuka the current version should fit that bill. 

At this point I do not know where I will be moving back to and don't know how harsh the regulations about weapons are. But I am sure I can own a sword in my house.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 12, 2006)

Well, mine came today.

The Fittings are BEYOND cheap, although I expected that from Cheness... its how they can make the swords so inexpensive.

The balance on the sword is nice, it draws well and feels clean when I swing it.  Honestly, for a short blade, it think it has the comfortable feel of a full size katana.

I have not cut with it... so I can't speak for that...​


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## cpoints (Jul 24, 2006)

I can't wait to get one.I think I will order one today! Have to talk to the Wife. So wish me luck


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## rutherford (Jul 24, 2006)

I've seen these for sale on ebay recently.  Just thought I'd mention it, I'm not one of the sellers.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 24, 2006)

Incidentaly, I wasnt too impressed with the cutting ability of this sword.

Maybe It was our technique... we cut just fine with the PPK, but because of the different dimensions of this blade, maybe the technique is very different.

Maybe the blade wasnt sharp enough.

I can't honestly say, as I lack the experience to do so...​


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## Tengu6 (Jul 24, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Incidentaly, I wasnt too impressed with the cutting ability of this sword.
> 
> Maybe It was our technique... we cut just fine with the PPK, but because of the different dimensions of this blade, maybe the technique is very different.
> 
> ...


Well, basicly, the ninja to was not supposed to be a "cutter" per se, its use was more tactical and situation, it was customized to the specs of the user, kind of like a ninja "swiss army knife". I urged cheness to make a Mogito version but it did not happen.

I did think that it cut well for its configuration, however it would not be my first choice as a "cutter", but I do think it did was it was intended for.

markk bush
www.bujinmag.com


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## Cryozombie (Jul 24, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> I did think that it cut well for its configuration,
> markk bush
> www.bujinmag.com



So, then, mine may be dull.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 24, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> Well, basicly, the ninja to was not supposed to be a "cutter" per se, its use was more tactical and situation, it was customized to the specs of the user, kind of like a ninja "swiss army knife". I urged cheness to make a Mogito version but it did not happen.
> 
> I did think that it cut well for its configuration, however it would not be my first choice as a "cutter", but I do think it did was it was intended for.
> 
> ...


 
I hope that they eventually come out with a mogito version!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Tengu6 (Jul 24, 2006)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> So, then, mine may be dull.


 
Probably not, like I said, it cut well for its design, but like you, my Hanwei Practical plus cut much smoother.

I dont mean to take anything away from the Oniyuri, the Cheness spring steel is great, it is really forgiving, but as I said, it is a specialty sword, by it's nature it will not cut as smooth as a shinken designed specificaly to do so.

So yeah, a mogito version would be golden. I agree with Don as well, a 12" handle would have felt much better.

Still, I would not pass this sword up. In fact, I want 2. one live and one that I wll dull myself to have a nice mogito.

Perhaps the next time we have Luke Molitor out we can ask him to cover Togakure Ryu Ninja-to techniques.

markk bush
www.bujinmag.com


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## Cryozombie (Jul 25, 2006)

Tengu6 said:
			
		

> Probably not, like I said, it cut well for its design, but like you, my Hanwei Practical plus cut much smoother.



Well mine cut like we were smacking the tatami with a boken.  Was that your experience?


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## Dale Seago (Nov 4, 2006)

Well, I have one of these of my own now. Totally unexpectedly.

Tuesday night's class was very small (9 people) as I knew in advance it would be, since many in the dojo were out celebrating Hallowe'en in various ways. But these folk are incredibly devious, and how they could have gotten that way just mystifies me. At the mid-class break I was chatting outside with one of my black belts, and at one point he changed his position as we talked, moving to my other side on the sidewalk for no obvious reason. I did notice this -- as an executive/dignitary protection professional I'm trained to take note of anomalous things -- but quickly dropped it as he adroitly kept me focused on the conversation. In actuality he was directing my attention away from the dojo doorway (which I'd previously been facing) to keep me from noticing what was going on inside; and had the group been an assassination team I might have died.  

It makes me so proud.     

When we walked back in, there in the center of the floor was a longish box which could only contain a sword, and a camera on a tripod had been set up at one end of the dojo and focused on that part of the floor.

Yes, it was a Cheness Oniyuri, with the "updated" tsuba. There also was a card inside the box signed by all those who had contributed toward it, many of whom were not even there for training that night.

I still am not sure why they picked that evening, except perhaps for the fact that they knew it was the night of the old Celtic New Year festival of _Samhain_, which has now become Hallowe'en, and that this meant something to me. But whatever -- I freakin' LOVE this sword!

Mine has a different tsuba, as noted above, from the one Markk tested and wrote about in his bujinmag.com article. Also, while the cotton tsuka-ito is not really optimal, on mine it's quite tight. As Don Roley noted the sword seems to be sort of a Kukishin/Togakure hybrid; I'd have been fine with a somewhat shorter tsuka but I really don't mind this one either. I've done a lot of drawing and other moving-around stuff with it over the last couple of days, and still have all my appendages and an intact saya. The sword is "beefy" yet well-balanced and agile, great for either one- or two-handed work.

The sword is not really optimized for tameshigiri, as others have noted; and it's certainly not a "_objet d'art_" either. What it is, though, to me, is a good, inexpensive, well-balanced, functional weapon. Kinda like a ninja-to in those respects.

And now, when the zombies come, I'll be ready!!!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 4, 2006)

Hey Dale,

That was a nice surprise.


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## Cryozombie (Apr 6, 2007)

Tengu6 said:


> At thier price you could remove the edge and have a nice mogito. The spring steel is highly resistant to bending, one reviewer bent the blade at 90 degrees and it went right back. hopefully the blade has a good feel.
> 
> Markk Bush



I know this thread is old, but I just saw Cheness now has this sword without an edge:



> Non-Sharp Oniyuri        Katana (with Bo-hi)[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*        - Blunted*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IN        STOCK NOW![/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]        (New Item). (ONLY $199.99)*[/FONT]



So if you were lookin for a really really basic but functional non-sharpened practice "ninja sword" they have em now.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 9, 2007)

Cryozombie said:


> I know this thread is old, but I just saw Cheness now has this sword without an edge:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you were lookin for a really really basic but functional non-sharpened practice "ninja sword" they have em now.


 
That is great!


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## Bigshadow (Apr 9, 2007)

Cryozombie said:


> I know this thread is old, but I just saw Cheness now has this sword without an edge:
> 
> 
> 
> So if you were lookin for a really really basic but functional non-sharpened practice "ninja sword" they have em now.



I saw that too!  I would love to get one.  The only thing that would worry me is grabbing the wrong one!


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## jks9199 (Apr 9, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> I saw that too!  I would love to get one.  The only thing that would worry me is grabbing the wrong one!


We use "red guns" in police training.  If a gun IN A TRAINING SCENARIO has red tape on the grip and barrel (or is even all red) -- it's supposed to be an inert/non-firing model.  We use different colors to mark Simunitions type guns, as well.  You might apply a similar approach; put red tape on the hilt/handle of "unedged edged weapons."

But we also always double and triple check that no live weapons/live ammo make it into a training environment.  For example, we might practice room clearing one night with 5 of us; one instructor and a 4 man stack.  Before we start, everyone checks their own gun.  They then check someone else's.  And then the instructor checks EVERYONE's (and someone else re-checks his).  We repeat this procedure after any break where people might have left the training environment.


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## Bigshadow (Apr 10, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> We use "red guns" in police training.  If a gun IN A TRAINING SCENARIO has red tape on the grip and barrel (or is even all red) -- it's supposed to be an inert/non-firing model.  We use different colors to mark Simunitions type guns, as well.  You might apply a similar approach; put red tape on the hilt/handle of "unedged edged weapons."
> 
> But we also always double and triple check that no live weapons/live ammo make it into a training environment.  For example, we might practice room clearing one night with 5 of us; one instructor and a 4 man stack.  Before we start, everyone checks their own gun.  They then check someone else's.  And then the instructor checks EVERYONE's (and someone else re-checks his).  We repeat this procedure after any break where people might have left the training environment.



I was thinking after I posted that...  I would have to mark the practice sword with something like that, that would really get my attention.  On top of being vigilant about visually checking it as well.


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