# New pocket-rocket



## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

Just picked this up last week...shoots pretty nice.  Good for the times I can't carry a real gun 
S&W 442-2 (doesn't have the idiotic lock) .38 Special

Out of the box






Set up for carry with Barami Hip-grips, Tyler-T grip adapter, and a piece of bicycle inner-tube





one more...just playing with the camera


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## lklawson (Dec 9, 2009)

Nice.

Just out of curiosity, why not one of the new breed of "pocket 9's";  PF-9, PM9, Glock 26, PPS, etc.?  That way, it's still a "real gun."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Carol (Dec 9, 2009)

That looks a good bit smaller than a Glock 26...


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## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

Valid question...

I'm a Glock guy, I carry a Glock 19 99.9% of the time so  I considered the 26.  My main criterion was the ability to carry in a pocket or on the ankle. Unfortunately I can't do with the 26 due to it's width and generally "blocky" shape.  If I could have gotten away with a 26, I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.

The curves of a revolver help break up the outline when carried in the pocket and also help smooth out the draw.  There's also the fact that it can be fired _through_ a jacket pocket if necessary (without malfunctioning).  This ability allows it to function not only as a BUG, but as a "preemptive" type weapon since you can have a firing grip while still concealed in the pocket.

As far as other small autos.  I'm just not convinced as to their reliability.  It seems that the smaller the auto, the more finicky it is and the more likely you are to just get one of the many "lemons" that just don't work and never will.  Kahrs, Kel-tecs, etc. are all plagued by this phenomenon.  If you step up to the upper end of the small auto range (e.g. PPK etc.) you're back to a gun that's not only as large or larger than the revolver (length and height), but also heavier.  
Basically, you trade reliability for concealability...not something I'm comfortable with.



> That looks a good bit smaller than a Glock 26...


S&W 442:  Length-6.37"  Width: 1.18"  Height: 4.25 Weight (empty) 15oz. 

Glock 26:  Length-6.29"  Width: 1.18"  Height: 4.17"  Weight (empty) 19.75 oz.  

While the numbers would indicate that they're pretty close, there is definitely a difference in the way they actually carry.  For example, while the revolver is the same width, the only part that's actually that wide is the cylinder.  The rest varies which makes a big difference in how it hides.


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## Grenadier (Dec 9, 2009)

Very nice choice!  I have a 442 as well, and it's what goes into the front pocket of a pair of cargo shorts during the July and August months of that high heat, high humidity weather.  

What load are you using?  I prefer Speer's 130 grain +P JHP Gold Dot designed for shorter barrels.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

110 gr. CorBon DPX at the moment (great stuff).  I plan to try the Speer as well but I had some of the DPX left over from my previous .38.


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## 50calray (Dec 9, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> Valid question...
> 
> I'm a Glock guy, I carry a Glock 19 99.9% of the time so  I considered the 26.  My main criterion was the ability to carry in a pocket or on the ankle. Unfortunately I can't do with the 26 due to it's width and generally "blocky" shape.  If I could have gotten away with a 26, I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.
> 
> The curves of a revolver help break up the outline when carried in the pocket and also help smooth out the draw.  There's also the fact that it can be fired _through_ a jacket pocket if necessary (without malfunctioning).  This ability allows it to function not only as a BUG, but as a "preemptive" type weapon since you can have a firing grip while still concealed in the pocket.



I bought Glock 27 for concealed carry and it just didn't work out for the same reasons. I mean it's just too blocky or bulky. So I ended up selling it and buying a Taurus Ultra Lite .38 Spl. It's way easier to wear using a inner waste holster or pocket if you wear loose clothing.


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## lklawson (Dec 9, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> As far as other small autos.  I'm just not convinced as to their reliability.  It seems that the smaller the auto, the more finicky it is and the more likely you are to just get one of the many "lemons" that just don't work and never will.  Kahrs, Kel-tecs, etc. are all plagued by this phenomenon.  If you step up to the upper end of the small auto range (e.g. PPK etc.) you're back to a gun that's not only as large or larger than the revolver (length and height), but also heavier.
> Basically, you trade reliability for concealability...not something I'm comfortable with.


Thanks the insight into your reasoning.

I'm not gonna try to argue you out of your conclusion.  It's your decision, you have to be comfortable with it.

That said, I carry a PF9 (and sometimes a P32 - yeah, I know... 32...).  It has always functioned 100% reliably with factory ammo.  In fact, I've only had 1 FTF with it and that was with some cheap reloaded "gunshow special" range fodder.  Everything else, going from Norinco all the way up through Ranger has been solid.  I've got some new 147 gr. that I want to try, but I feel pretty confident it'll be just fine.

I hear a lot about "lemons," especially in Kel-Tec stuff but also from Kahr and even the super-micro glocks, but I just haven't seen it.  I assume that those are the statistical outliers.

Like I said, I'm not going to try to argue your position.  Your body.  Your life.  Your gun.  (Besides, I think the fanatic flame wars are stupid.)

Thanks again.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 9, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> Just picked this up last week...shoots pretty nice. Good for the times I can't carry a real gun
> S&W 442-2 (doesn't have the idiotic lock) .38 Special
> 
> Out of the box
> ...


 
Tex, please tell me those aren't camouflage bed sheets.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

50calray said:
			
		

> I bought Glock 27 for concealed carry and it just didn't work out for the same reasons. I mean it's just too blocky or bulky. So I ended up selling it and buying a Taurus Ultra Lite .38 Spl. It's way easier to wear using a inner waste holster or pocket if you wear loose clothing.


Well, as I said, I carry a G19 most of the time and have zero problems concealing the pistol, a spare mag, and a fixed-blade knife in my everyday attire.  If you have a good belt/holser combination, it's nowhere near as difficult as people make it sound.  This is for the times that I have to tuck my shirt in and am not wearing a jacket.  Other than use as a BUG, it really won't see a whole lot of carry time--it won't get used as a primary very often.
The S&W is actually a replacement for my Taurus 85 ultra-lite...piece of crap.  After it broke on me the second time, I decided it was no longer something I was going to trust for anything, even if it did get fixed again.



			
				lklawson said:
			
		

> I hear a lot about "lemons," especially in Kel-Tec stuff but also from Kahr and even the super-micro glocks, but I just haven't seen it. I assume that those are the statistical outliers.


  I've seen/heard of enough issues from people I know who have had guns from those manufacturers that I just didn't feel like messing with it.  Maybe next time when I have the time and inclination to deal with spending enough time with one to confirm its reliability.



Jenny_in_Chico said:


> Tex, please tell me those aren't camouflage bed sheets.



No   it was a BDU top that was conveniently lying on the floor when I was looking for something to use as a background.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 9, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> No  it was a BDU top that was conveniently lying on the floor when I was looking for something to use as a background.


 
Good to hear, because otherwise I would have predicted a divorce in your near future.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

eh, you have to be married first for that to happen


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

Ken,

I carry two guns now days (and a safe full of others!)

A Glock 26 with Bowie Tactical Concepts grip reduction, and Hinnie Strait Eight night sights, NY-1/3.5lb connector (got it at a pawn shop for $425 flat.. so I put my Glock 27 up for now.) Winchester +P+ 127s is what I feed it.

And a Smith 642 .38. Mine has Secret Service ebony boot grips and that's all. It DOES have the lock, but I never ever use it.

Corbon 158gr LSWHPs are it's diet.

The little .38 is excellent when I have to go out fast to the 'stop-n-rob' for something. But even then, the 26 rides in the car console.

Otherwise it's the Glock at a minimum and the 642 rides in the console. Quite a few times I pack both.

And for practice I use another Glock 26 with AACK .22 unit (love that thing), Smith 34 2 inch snub .22, and a Smith 640 .357. And since I reload both .38 and 9mm, I have plenty of BBs.

That 442 is a fine gun. It will serve you well for many years. And that ammo, I think you have DPX, is great (I use the 158s cause I have almost a CASE of Corbon 158s!!

You might want to check on a Smith & Wesson 317 .22 for practice. Yes it ain't cheep but .38 ammo is very expensive unless you reload it.

Deaf


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## KenpoTex (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah, I'm actually planning to look at one of the J-frame .22's after I sell that damn Taurus.
It's definitely nice to practice with a .22 "clone" of your larger caliber guns.  A buddy of mine has an AA kit for the Glock 19 that I use now and then.


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## lklawson (Dec 10, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> I've seen/heard of enough issues from people I know who have had guns from those manufacturers that I just didn't feel like messing with it.  Maybe next time when I have the time and inclination to deal with spending enough time with one to confirm its reliability.


Nah.  I don't think you should bother.  Do what you're comfortable with.  A EDC is very personal and if you're just not inclined to work with the pocket nines then it might be an exercise in frustration for you.

Mine works.  I like it.  But I'm not going to try to argue you into my position.

A lot of people claim that the recoil from these super micro nines is awful and that they're extra vulnerable to limp-wristing because of their light weight.  Again, I've not seen it, but OK.  It's a good argument for pocket revolvers.  Sure, the recoil will still be there but I've found that the action of the slide, though technically bleeding off recoil energy, seems to increase perceived recoil.  And you can't cause a FTF by limp-wristing a revolver.

Like I said, I'm not trying to start a fight here.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## KenpoTex (Dec 10, 2009)

I've shot a couple different models PM9, P11, Rohrbaugh (sp?) R9, etc. and liked the way they felt.  But I don't have a grand to drop on the R9


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Dec 10, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> eh, you have to be married first for that to happen


 
Which explains why there was a BDU top lying on the floor.


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## zDom (Dec 10, 2009)

Ya, I really want one of those 442s or 642s for a carry gun. I just can't spend the money yet ...

Love my SIG 226, but it is just so BIG.

Grats on a nice purchase!


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## Deaf Smith (Dec 10, 2009)

KenpoTex said:


> I've shot a couple different models PM9, P11, Rohrbaugh (sp?) R9, etc. and liked the way they felt. But I don't have a grand to drop on the R9


 
Me to Ken! A thousand bucks and I'd sure hate to drop it on the pavement (as can happen in a fight or if the cops say to drop it!)

And what is more, if you shoot them alot you worry about them wearing out. One of the reasons I shoot Glocks so much is they are very hard to wear out! You can get two Glocks for the price of those guns you mentioned. One can be a practice gun, another the carry gun. And you can get real real good that way. And that skill is more important than the thousand buck gun you shoot little.

Deaf


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## Hudson69 (Dec 17, 2009)

Interesting slug thrower; mine is a Taurus .357, but no an airweight (or similar).  I had an XD Sub-compact 9 that was toooooo big for me when rolling undercover so went back to the snub-nose since it doubles as a flashbang device late at night or in darker, more enclose spaces; love the .357 magnum.

I am looking to get the PF-9 Kel-Tec though for the concealability, reliability and the fact my duty rig is a 9mm.  

Have fun with practice and hopefully you will need to "really" use it.  As another man said "Peace favor your sword."


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## Andy Moynihan (Dec 17, 2009)

lklawson said:


> Nice.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why not one of the new breed of "pocket 9's"; PF-9, PM9, Glock 26, PPS, etc.? That way, it's still a "real gun."
> 
> ...


 

Think of it this way:

* You can get snubbies that go up to .357 ( I personally don't like them, even in all steel, too much recoil for me, but some folks do, and like 'em just fine), and even .38 +P is nothing to sneeze at.Most pocket autos the same size don't offer NEARLY that much punch. Most of em, the .380s and .32s are what I call nose guns( IE the only way to get a reliable one or two round stop with one of THOSE is to screw the damnthing up the threat's nose before you squeeze).

* The point has already been brought up about the revolver mechanism's superiority in pocket carry in that you can ( with a hammerless model such as Matt's 442 and my and Deaf's 642s for example) let go all five shots without even removing it from the pocket, and there is no faster draw than that. Do thou likewise with any pocket auto and you're stuck with just the one shot and may injure your hand depending on the room in the pocket for your hand and the actuating slide. And you just jammed it most likely.

* which brings us to the main point. Carried in belt holsters, most autos are reliable enough now to almost never jam if kept maintained. In pockets( lint, dust) or ankle carry(dirt and grit kicking up from your shoe) not nearly so much. The revolver will fire even if the damnthing's got dust bunnies in it.

* Remember that the reason you carry a backup is because your primary has either depleted its available ammo( by which time you're not in any run of the mill self defense scenario but rather a running gun battle/gang fight), or jammed. Therefore as a direct result the first and foremost thing one ought to demand of his backup piece is that it CANNOT jam.

*


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