# Modern Arnis, Orange County, CA?



## XkempoX (Mar 30, 2004)

I tried to search all the links and schools (searches) in regards to Modern Arnis and I can't seem to find a school here in my area, specifically in the South Orange County, CA area. Does anyone know off hand if there's any.  Thank you in advance...


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 30, 2004)

To my knoledge there is nothing in Modern Arnis in your area. How far are you from Lake Tahoe?


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## XkempoX (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks for the quick reply, Renegade.  Lake Tahoe is quite a ways, I would say about 8 - 9 hr drive.  I'm located about 20 mins. from Newport Beach and 30 mins. from Anaheim (Disneyland).


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 31, 2004)

I get home from Sweden and Denmark after Easter. When I get back I'll see if I can find someone closer.

Datu Tim Hartman
www.wmarnis.com


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## arnisandyz (Mar 31, 2004)

I noticed your sig...Although not "pure" Modern Arnis there is a Kempo group in Pasedena headed up by a guy named Rich that is incorporating FCS Kali into there stuff. I think they are located in the old Ed parker building last I spoke with him.  FCS Kali is a composite system of Ray Dionaldo made up of Modern Arnis, Sayoc Kali and Pekiti Tirsia, among others.


Andy


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## XkempoX (Mar 31, 2004)

Thank you, Renegade. Hope you have a great time and a safe trip back.

arnisandyz, Pasadena is still 45 - 1 hr away from my place and you probably know or heard about the traffic situation here in the Los Angeles area. But I've known of schools that offers Arnis/Kali/Silat under Dan Inosanto and also some some individuals will teach Pangasinan style (Nes Fernandez) that is within my area. My question is? Is there really a big difference in style (teachings) between Modern Arnis (Presas) and other FMA, i.e. Inosanto and others. I would really want to learn Modern Arnis since my family roots came from the same province where Remy Presas started his school (Bacolod City).


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 31, 2004)

Yes they are different. What stands out most in my mind is that at the begining levels of Modern Arnis, it is really self-defense oriented where other styles may be more combat or fighting systems.
 :asian:


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## XkempoX (Mar 31, 2004)

Renegade said:
			
		

> .......Modern Arnis, it is really *self-defense oriented* where other styles may be *more combat or fighting* systems.
> 
> :asian: Can you please elaborate more on the above. Thank you...


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## bart (Mar 31, 2004)

There is a lot of Arnis in OC. You're kind of in a hotbed over there. 

There are a lot of differences between modern arnis and other FMA. For one Modern Arnis has a set curriculum that's broken down into standardized parts. A student learns the system piece by piece and is given a grade or ranking as they progress. Other FMA sometimes do not have a ranking structure and their curriculum is not on paper. Some that do have a ranking system often won't give you any rank until you've been with them for a couple years. 

Modern Arnis is very formal. They often learn it at a karate school and are required to wear that uniform or a uniform whenever they have class. Often Modern Arnis is integrated into that "martial culture" as well and progression in the Modern Arnis is required for advancement in the other system being taught or vice-versa. Often they are also more strict about the use of a title like guro or sensei. Other FMA also have uniforms, but many just work out in regular street clothes or athletic gear. They also have titles but the use of them is less strictly enforced. 

Modern Arnis people usually also participate in single hit sparring similar to karate point fighting as their regular form of sparring. Many of the other FMA go for continuous hitting and spend more time on full contact and free form sparring. 

As for the beginning parts of Modern Arnis being more about self-defense, I think that depends on what you think constitutes self-defense. Even though I've pointed out some differences there are more similarities. One is the dedication to the development of basics. 

Anyway, I hope that helps. I know a good spot for other FMA in OC along the border between there and LA in Bellflower. Good luck.


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## arnisador (Mar 31, 2004)

XkempoX said:
			
		

> Renegade said:
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## Datu Tim Hartman (Mar 31, 2004)

*Modern Arnis is very formal. * 
I disagree. You should come to one of our schools or camps.

*They often learn it at a karate school and are required to wear that uniform or a uniform whenever they have class. * 
_Not always. I have a professional school, so we wear uniforms. Some of our clubs wear steet clothes when they work out. I do both depending on the situation._

*Often they are also more strict about the use of a title like guro or sensei. * 
_My title is Datu, but prefer Mr Hartman at my school and often request people to call me Tim at seminars._

*Modern Arnis people usually also participate in single hit sparring similar to karate point fighting as their regular form of sparring. Many of the other FMA go for continuous hitting and spend more time on full contact and free form sparring. * 
_We spar both ways, depending on what we are trying to develope. We also do open hand sparring._

*As for the beginning parts of Modern Arnis being more about self-defense, I think that depends on what you think constitutes self-defense. * 
_I define it by not have to rely on using a weapon to defend myself. Prof was very big on this point and I agree. I see to many FMA systems teaching the use of weapons as a primary means of defending one self._
 :asian:


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## bart (Mar 31, 2004)

Renegade said:
			
		

> *Modern Arnis is very formal. *
> I disagree. You should come to one of our schools or camps.
> 
> *They often learn it at a karate school and are required to wear that uniform or a uniform whenever they have class. *
> ...




I must concede, I do have to stop into one of your schools as I haven't been to one. I think there's an affiliate of yours in South Lake Tahoe and I should drop by as I'm not that far away. However I think that Modern Arnis stresses a strict formality and orderliness that is akin to that of a formal school. It doesn't seem to me to be a "backyard" style but rather one that you would find in a commercial/professional school. There are exceptions, but I believe that the formal structure and atmosphere is the rule. 

In my area up here in Sacramento, Modern Arnis is almost always taught as part of a curriculum at a karate school. My experience in Modern Arnis is from my time in one of those Karate schools and then from the Youth Development Training (PE) course during a year of high school that I spent in Manila. It was VERY formal...like the "Sir! Yes! Sir! " type of formal. Perhaps relative to traditional karate it is not so formal. But when compared to the general run of FMA, it is somewhat more formal.

I've never seen Modern Arnis people spar in the WEKAF manner, but I have seen them in the stop action point sparring style, weapon and empty hand. I've also not seen any Modern Arnis in juego todo or Dog Brothers style sparring, but that in no way means that they don't do it, just that it's not public enough to come to the attention of a casual researcher, like myself. 

As for "self-defense" I think this is one of the points that we'll just have to disagree on. In my opinion the FMA start with a weapon and work their way to empty hands. The stick is used to teach empty hand techniques. Of course they need some going over, and some development, but one of the principles of the FMA is that stick or no stick the principles of the art can still be applied. The weapon is not taught as the primary means of self-defense, but rather it is the primary vehicle through which the principles of self-defense can be understood and internalized. From that point, with or without the weapon, the person has become capable. People often quote Remy as saying "it's all the same" and in that light it's true.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 1, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> As for "self-defense" I think this is one of the points that we'll just have to disagree on. In my opinion the FMA start with a weapon and work their way to empty hands. The stick is used to teach empty hand techniques. Of course they need some going over, and some development, but one of the principles of the FMA is that stick or no stick the principles of the art can still be applied. The weapon is not taught as the primary means of self-defense, but rather it is the primary vehicle through which the principles of self-defense can be understood and internalized. From that point, with or without the weapon, the person has become capable. People often quote Remy as saying "it's all the same" and in that light it's true.




It sounds like Modern Arnis is taught different in th PI than the US. As far as the being the same as the hand I agree. What I'm saying is that there is *more* emphisis on open hand defences at the beginning levels than other FMA systems.
 :asian:


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 1, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> I've never seen Modern Arnis people spar in the WEKAF manner,



On a side note, the first WEKAF tournament in the states in Baltimore was won by Ed Plsitz sp. , A Modern Arnis player. :asian:


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## bart (Apr 1, 2004)

Renegade said:
			
		

> On a side note, the first WEKAF tournament in the states in Baltimore was won by Ed Plsitz sp. , A Modern Arnis player. :asian:



Thanks for the info. Kudos to Ed! Are there any other Modern Arnis folks that compete WEKAF style currently?


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## XkempoX (Apr 1, 2004)

Thank you for all the interesting information. I think I'm looking for a more structured (start from basics) and take it from there for me to advance my path. Having trained with various arts, Shotokan, Shokokai/Shorinji, Shaolin Kempo and now Muay Thai/JKD, I would still want to expand my knowledge in martial arts and probably settling to just one art/style to master (though my heart still belongs to Kempo, which I would like to go back in the future). For me, is finding a reputable school around my area and learn the correct way of doing things as I did before and presently. As I mentioned on my previous thread, I know of a school close by under Dan Inosanto. Is Inosanto's curriculum pretty much similar to Presas' Modern Arnis? Just want let you know off-hand that don't want to compare, but probably it can be an alternative for me.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 1, 2004)

Guro Dan has a good program, but comparing it to Modern Arnis would be like comparing apples to oranges. Both are good, but different.
 :asian:


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## bart (Apr 1, 2004)

XkempoX said:
			
		

> Is Inosanto's curriculum pretty much similar to Presas' Modern Arnis? Just want let you know off-hand that don't want to compare, but probably it can be an alternative for me.



They do share the use of sticks, other than that, there is a great amount of difference in the teaching methodology and the structure of the system. 

I would look at a couple OC Doce Pares groups if you can't find Modern Arnis down there. They start with solid basics.


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## arnisandyz (Apr 1, 2004)

XkempoX said:
			
		

> I would really want to learn Modern Arnis since my family roots came from the same province where Remy Presas started his school (Bacolod City).



Why don't you ask your family or family friends if they personally know anybody who does FMA? Most Filipinos are very happy to have new generation Filipino-American students to pass the art on to. As someone else mentioned, your in a good area for FMA.  This would be more like traditional FMA training in a tribal sense. Ask around, you might be surpised that someone might know a thing or two, but never taught the art because the right student never came along. You can also check with your local Filipino-American group as  they help sponsor and promote Filipino culture.  You are more likely to get more training on a "cultural" level going this route. 

I remember one seminar I went to, Professor Presas said to me.."Your doing good! You have an advantage you know!"  It took me a long time to figure out what he was saying, I definately wasn't any better than anybody else there.  What he was telling me was that I would have more opportunitiies to train with some of the old masters, and that I would have an easier time selling FMA and find students compared to somebody of equal skill due to me being Fil-Am. I guess all I'm trying to say to you is don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

thanks

Andy


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## XkempoX (Apr 1, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> I would look at a couple *OC Doce Pares groups* if you can't find Modern Arnis down there. They start with solid basics.
> 
> Do you know of one here in OC, I saw a website that's in San Diego. Thanks...


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## bart (Apr 1, 2004)

XkempoX said:
			
		

> bart said:
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## XkempoX (Apr 1, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> My teacher, Ramon Rubia is in Buena Park. I sent you his phone number in a private message along with info for another group, Bandalan DP. Good luck.
> 
> Got it... Thanks...


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