# Discussions on Bringing back the Camaro



## Rich Parsons (Apr 18, 2005)

This is the article in question:



> GM Searches for RWD Options
> Automotive News
> April 18, 2005
> 
> ...



I like this comment:


> The bottom line: GM insiders say they want rwd vehicles, including one in the mold of the Camaro muscle car, which was discontinued in 2002.



This is almost the number one question I get form people is, "What is or when is the replacement for the Camaro comiong out?"

At least there are discussions going on.


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## arnisador (Apr 18, 2005)

I say, bring back the Model T!


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## dubljay (Apr 18, 2005)

I was under the impression that when GM (Chevy) took the Comaro out of production is was to go under redevelopment and scheduled to be released sometime in 05 or 06.  If I remember correctly it was never intended to end production permanently.


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## The Kai (Apr 19, 2005)

You know I still got the Black Satin  Camero Jacket and the driving Gloves.


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 19, 2005)

I say bring back the 67 - 69 Camaro.  artyon:


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## Gemini (Apr 19, 2005)

Even when they discontinued the Camaro in '02, I always thought it was a ploy and it would come back. I never substantiated it based on anything tangible, just my own opinion.


It would be nice though, my Mustang is getting hungry for something a little beefier than what the imports offer. A 2007 Camaro with an LS2 at around 450hp would be a great matchup to the 2007 SVT Shelby.


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## dubljay (Apr 19, 2005)

jfarnsworth said:
			
		

> I say bring back the 67 - 69 Camaro. artyon:


 Thats the idea, look at what Ford did with the Mustang, and the return of the GTO (which is nothing more than a Camaro or Firebird in different clothing).  I am willing to bet that the new Camaro will have a "retro" look to comptete with the new Mustang.


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## OUMoose (Apr 19, 2005)

Pssh.  If they're so hell bent to sell "retro" cars, they should use a "retro" PRICE. 

"Oh yeah...  Your new 2007 uber-retro-stock Camaro with all the trimmings will total out too.....  *calulator numbers punching*...  $4785 dollars after tax.  Will that be cash, check, or hand-chip swipe?"


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## arnisador (Apr 19, 2005)

Gemini said:
			
		

> Even when they discontinued the Camaro in '02, I always thought it was a ploy and it would come back.



Sort of like the death of Superman?


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## michaeledward (Apr 19, 2005)

I heard the 'retro' Thunderbird is going away soon .. prolly for good. 

Retro doesn't really work in the quantities required to be profitable, with the possible exception of the Beetle.


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## 7starmantis (Apr 19, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> Thats the idea, look at what Ford did with the Mustang, and the return of the GTO (which is nothing more than a Camaro or Firebird in different clothing). I am willing to bet that the new Camaro will have a "retro" look to comptete with the new Mustang.


 That would be perfect for me, a new camaro with a bit of F1 body style. The '69 is my dream car, so a new twist might just be great. I have a '91 that I just use to play with, work on, and run a bit. I would sell it in a minute for a '69 of comparable mechanical shape, or a new 2007 with retro (F1) look.

 7sm


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## dubljay (Apr 19, 2005)

Throw backs to the "good ol' days" is something American car manufactures are really beating to death. Dodge has its Rumble Bee and the Hemi, Ford has the new Mustang and the Thunderbird (which is going bye-bye) GM has the GTO and most likely the new retro Camaro. 

 I think they should be working on cars with smaller engines and boost systems (supercharged or turbo) the fuel efficency would definately swing many people over to buying American cars as opposed to forgin. Just look at the competition, Subaru has the turbo WRX, VW has several turbo models, as does Audi... American car companies completely missed that train and they are paying for it now.

  sorry for ranting... its a touchy subject for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





_edit:_ I am all for the retro look, it breaks the mold of the everyday streamlined rounded off sedan/suv.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 19, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that when GM (Chevy) took the Comaro out of production is was to go under redevelopment and scheduled to be released sometime in 05 or 06.  If I remember correctly it was never intended to end production permanently.



Well for insider information the replacement is on the market. Can you guess which model was the rework? And why it was not marketed as the rework?


The real reason the stop production, was because there was only one plant building them and GM was not selling enough of them to cover the cost of running a plant for two small production lines (* Camaro and Firebird *)


As they mentioned in the article, they are looking for a common line to build off of, and this would allow multiple vehicle lines to be built at the same plant and to cover the overhead costs 

Even the XLR is built not in Bowling Green with Corvette.


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## psi_radar (Apr 20, 2005)

Bitchin Camaro

Bitchin Camaro

Donuts on your lawn.

Bitchin Camaro

Bitchin Camaro

Tony Orlando and Dawn.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. If you read between the lines of that article, they basically said yeah, we've got our eye open for an rwd, but unless it falls out of our quest to find the next super-margin producer like the SUV or the minivan, we're not going too far out of our way to look for one. Kind of too bad, but honestly I think it's time for GM to look forward instead of backward. Big displacement isn't necessarily the holy grail of speed anymore. A Yamaha R1 with approximately 1 liter produces about 180 horses in the 2005 model. Put that in a light, small 4-wheel body and you've still got something hot, even with the extra smog gear. Honda's Accord Hybrid is the fastest of the Accord line. GM's inclination toward design conservancy continues to bite them.


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## MJS (Apr 20, 2005)

I enjoyed mine when I had it, so I'd like to see them bring it back.  Possibly do as Ford did with the Mustang...create a new body style based on an older model Camaro.  Variety is always good.  The new style of Mustang seems like its a big hit, and the same can be said of the Vette.

Mike


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## dubljay (Apr 20, 2005)

psi_radar said:
			
		

> Kind of too bad, but honestly I think it's time for GM to look forward instead of backward. Big displacement isn't necessarily the holy grail of speed anymore. A Yamaha R1 with approximately 1 liter produces about 180 horses in the 2005 model. Put that in a light, small 4-wheel body and you've still got something hot, even with the extra smog gear. Honda's Accord Hybrid is the fastest of the Accord line. GM's inclination toward design conservancy continues to bite them.


 I couldn't agree more psi_radar.  Look at the old Volkswagen twin turbo desiel pickup, that thing got between 50-60 mpg, that was way back too.  The nice part about smaller displacement and boost is the power is definately still there and the fuel effeciency is there too.

 on a side note I noticed that GM has a full size hybrid truck that has no loss of power and towing capability, but only has an increased fuel efficincy of an estimated 2mpg. 



> The Silverado 1500 Hybrid, available in select states(1) is offered as an Extended Cab in two- and four-wheel drive with a system that provides 120-volt AC power via four outlets -- two in the cab and two in the cargo box. These outlets offer the capability of running power tools or functioning as a generator in a remote area. And with a Vortec 5300 V8 engine and Hybrid-specific automatic transmission there's an increase of an EPA estimated 2 MPG in the city(2) with no loss in power and little loss in power and little loss in trailering and payload capabilities (compared to a traditional Silverado 1500 Extended Cab). Best of all, Silverado Hybrid is from the family of Chevy Trucks -- the most dependable, longest-lasting trucks on the road.(3)
> 
> 1 California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Alaska and Florida. 2 EPA estimated fuel economy in MPG (city/highway): 18/21 for 2WD model; 17/19 for 4WD model. 3 Dependability based on longevity: 1981- July 2003 full-line light-duty truck company registrations. Excludes other GM divisions.


 heres the link http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleHo...=260&subModel=Hybrid&lowerPrice=&higherPrice=

 Intesting to say the least.


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## Sigung86 (Apr 20, 2005)

I dunno about what is going on with mpg technology.  Seems like computers could play a much larger part in the technology.  For instance, I own a '99 Corvette Fixed Roof Coupe (Hardtop).  The body style, eventually, became the Z06 for any Vette afficianados reading this ...

It is all drive by wire and computerized, and while it does have pretty exciting performance, when I get on the highway, I get really great mileage.  Last Summer, I took a road trip to Kansas City with my wife, and we got 36+ mpg.
I can run up and down the Interstates from my house into St. Louis, doing 75mph+ and get 27 - 30 mpg.  

I think for a car that has approx 360 hp (due to a modified breather unit), 345 hp stock, that is pretty respectable.

It's probably a whole different set of physics for trucks, SUVs and needs of heavy torque, like towing, etc.  However, not being a truck guy, I have never looked into it.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 20, 2005)

psi_radar said:
			
		

> Bitchin Camaro
> 
> Bitchin Camaro
> 
> ...




I agree that from the article if it does not fit a larger profile of vehicles it must likely will not happen .

As to displacement, the Grand National is a great story, for one year it was faster than the vette for 0 to 60. But skunk work programs like this are not allowed and money is watched very close. Even though I agree, it would be nice to have these programs again.

As to the hybrid being the fastest, it is because the electric engine can give a uniform equal torque delivery to the wheels, which allows for the vehicle to hook up and get moving.


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## psi_radar (Apr 21, 2005)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I agree that from the article if it does not fit a larger profile of vehicles it must likely will not happen .
> 
> As to displacement, the Grand National is a great story, for one year it was faster than the vette for 0 to 60. But skunk work programs like this are not allowed and money is watched very close. Even though I agree, it would be nice to have these programs again.
> 
> As to the hybrid being the fastest, it is because the electric engine can give a uniform equal torque delivery to the wheels, which allows for the vehicle to hook up and get moving.



Good points. It seems to me that GM's problems stem from the fact they think of the business before the cars. Understandable, since I've heard they have nearly a million people on their health care plan. But they're not going to be successful if they don't think of the cars and the people that love them first. Harley, which just surpassed GM in sales, is a good case study on how  passion can be transformed into dollars.


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## OUMoose (Apr 21, 2005)

psi_radar said:
			
		

> Good points. It seems to me that GM's problems stem from the fact they think of the business before the cars. Understandable, since I've heard they have nearly a million people on their health care plan. But they're not going to be successful if they don't think of the cars and the people that love them first. Harley, which just surpassed GM in sales, is a good case study on how  passion can be transformed into dollars.


I don't think Harley is as good as you might think, as that's more obsession than passion.  Then again, I have a problem with paying for a name.  YMMV.


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## psi_radar (Apr 21, 2005)

OUMoose said:
			
		

> I don't think Harley is as good as you might think, as that's more obsession than passion.  Then again, I have a problem with paying for a name.  YMMV.



I own a Suzuki, if that tells you anything. Harley doesn't sell performance (or quality), they sell an image--their technology, with the exception of the v-rod, is about 50-60 years old. I think they're a great example for GM to follow--they brilliantly rebranded themselves after nearly going under in the late '70s and early '80s to now command huge profits and brand loyalty, on style alone. Not to say GM shouldn't be more substantive in their approach--that'd be nice to see too.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 21, 2005)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> I dunno about what is going on with mpg technology.  Seems like computers could play a much larger part in the technology.  For instance, I own a '99 Corvette Fixed Roof Coupe (Hardtop).  The body style, eventually, became the Z06 for any Vette afficianados reading this ...
> 
> It is all drive by wire and computerized, and while it does have pretty exciting performance, when I get on the highway, I get really great mileage.  Last Summer, I took a road trip to Kansas City with my wife, and we got 36+ mpg.
> I can run up and down the Interstates from my house into St. Louis, doing 75mph+ and get 27 - 30 mpg.
> ...




My job is the computer in the car that manages the engine or transmission or both. They are very complicated, and very complex and are used on all vehicles now a days to meet emissions requirements. While the Government regulated Emissions first, this drive to meet the emission standards drove the auto companies to get better control (* Close Loop control *) of the system which improved fuel economy is a by product.

As to your outstanding MPG, I would expect it to be a stick, with a 6 speed, and to have the 5th and 6th speeds be over drive. This is great for fuel economy and if you do not get on it. In Europe Standard or Stick transmissions are the norm, here in NA (* North American *), the Automatic is standard on most vehicles and the manual or stick is the option. 

And you are correct it is drive by wire, meaning ETC of electronic throttle control, which has been or wil be rolled out to almost all vehicles now. This is ust another step in geting control of the system. 

A lot of the problem in designing a vehicle, is that they want creature comforts in the cabin versus power under the hood for the same mass, and or space constraints. The design is to make the vehicle smaller and lighter, whihc should be better on fuel economy, but many times the engine compartment wil not hold the "Best Fit" engine, and a smaller engine is chosen. Now this smaller engine works harder to support this mass. I know to many it does not make sense, but to someone it must. 

Peace
:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2006)

Well here goes:



> *PRODUCT NEWS
> **
> 
> 
> ...


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## NOZR1 (Aug 10, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> Well here goes:
> 
> [/font]


I am very disappointed that they chose to go with an IRS. Most people buying a muscle car want a soild axle.


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## HKphooey (Aug 10, 2006)

I am glad muscle cars are making a comeback!  I took the Dodge Charger SRT/8 for a test drive.  Holy cow!  What a car!  And it has four doors (so you can justify it as the family car )

The protoype Dodge Challenger has many of the Camaro lines.  I may wait to see if that comes out.  The 6.1 hemi engine generates some KA power.


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## Carol (Aug 10, 2006)

Oooh...that sounds so cool.  Last Detroit car I actually liked was my 80's Camaro in arrest-me red   

A limited production car can work, if it's done right.  The Honda S2000 roadster is made in limited quantities.  Plus, scarcity can add value.  

Looking forward to see what it will look like


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## Sigung86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> I
> As to displacement, the Grand National is a great story, for one year it was faster than the vette for 0 to 60. But skunk work programs like this are not allowed and money is watched very close. Even though I agree, it would be nice to have these programs again.


 
Buick has always had my respect.  They build a reputable family/conservative old guy kind of car that maintains its dignity, quality, and reputation for affordable luxury ... Then every once in a great while Buick cuts off the medicine supply to the engineers, and you get a Grand National! %-} 

Does anyone beside me remember the Gran Sport series?

With gas prices currently going to the moon, and many people rearranging themselves back on the performance wagon, and Hummer getting 11 mpg, I am waiting to see what Buick does next.  I am sitting here, and imagining a vision of a blurred and fuzzy hand reaching out to a slightly sharper spigot handle marked "Sedate the engineers medicine ... ON/OFF". :rofl:

And Rich ... Thanks for the insights...


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 10, 2006)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> Does anyone beside me remember the Gran Sport series?


 
with the 455 big block v8, nope neer heard of it.


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## Sigung86 (Aug 10, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> with the 455 big block v8, nope neer heard of it.


 
Well... I see I'm not the only old liar around here! :rofl:

That being the case, me neither, but I want one, stage III, and a Grand National to park in my virtual garage next to my Vette. artyon: artyon:


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 10, 2006)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> Well... I see I'm not the only old liar around here! :rofl:
> 
> That being the case, me neither, but I want one, stage III, and a Grand National to park in my virtual garage next to my Vette. artyon: artyon:


 
Although I have never heard of one I am rather partial to this one myself, but I prefer the hard top.... that is if I had ever heard of one.

http://www.dealsonwheels.com/search/detail.aspx?id=001049-200605-000027


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2006)

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> Oooh...that sounds so cool. Last Detroit car I actually liked was my 80's Camaro in arrest-me red
> 
> A limited production car can work, if it's done right. The Honda S2000 roadster is made in limited quantities. Plus, scarcity can add value.
> 
> Looking forward to see what it will look like


 
Given today's global economy and market place, it would not surprise me that other lines were added to the same platform for production.

My Expectation is at least one Pontiac (* could be one or two vehicle names *) will be on the same line and I can guess at a Buick (* Not sure is an older name or new name would be used *), and maybe something for Europe as well. 

But that honestly is all speculation on my part.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2006)

NOZR1 said:
			
		

> I am very disappointed that they chose to go with an IRS. Most people buying a muscle car want a soild axle.


 
And that may be an option for the second or third model year. That is not uncommon, to release a package then have the updates for better performance in later model years for those who really care.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2006)

HKphooey said:
			
		

> I am glad muscle cars are making a comeback! I took the Dodge Charger SRT/8 for a test drive. Holy cow! What a car! And it has four doors (so you can justify it as the family car )
> 
> The protoype Dodge Challenger has many of the Camaro lines. I may wait to see if that comes out. The 6.1 hemi engine generates some KA power.


 

There really is no Replacement for Displacement.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 10, 2006)

Sigung86 said:
			
		

> Buick has always had my respect. They build a reputable family/conservative old guy kind of car that maintains its dignity, quality, and reputation for affordable luxury ... Then every once in a great while Buick cuts off the medicine supply to the engineers, and you get a Grand National! %-}
> 
> Does anyone beside me remember the Gran Sport series?
> 
> ...


 

:angel:

I really hope they do drop a Buick body on this platform.


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## OUMoose (Aug 10, 2006)

Just saw some pics of the new Challenger, and it looks tight!  WoW!!

@Rich, I love the GN.  A buddy of mine who got me on them has 2 of them in his _real_ garage, and a Turbo-T for parts.   Gotta have a fast one for the track, and a "slow" one for work. Heh.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2007)

As stated below they have comfirmed the addition of the Convertible in MY 2010.
*



			PRODUCT NEWS
		
Click to expand...

*


> *CHEVROLET CAMARO CONVERTIBLE CONCEPT DEBUTS AT NORTH AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL AUTO SHOW .... *The Chevrolet Camaro convertible concept will be unveiled on the eve of the North American International Auto Show at the GM Style event.  The Camaro convertible concept, based on the original Camaro concept, shares exterior dimensions with the Camaro concept, with a slight change in the windshield surround to accommodate the convertible top. The Camaro convertible is powered by a V-8 engine that sends power to the rear wheels via a manual transmission.
> "The best follow-up to last year's award-winning Camaro concept is a Camaro convertible," said Ed Welburn, GM vice president, global design. "The Camaro convertible concept instantly evokes an emotional response - it's a vehicle that you want to make room for in your garage."
> Chevrolet already has announced production plans for the Camaro, which will go on sale in the US in 2009. A production convertible model will be added later that year.


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