# AIG paying millions of dollars in bonuses, will fix things later.



## Bob Hubbard (Mar 14, 2009)

> American International Group is giving its executives tens of millions of dollars in new bonuses even though it received a taxpayer bailout of more than $170 billion dollars.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...4/national/w154601D88.DTL&type=business&tsp=1


I hope every last one of then choke on their caviar.


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## Thesemindz (Mar 14, 2009)

Remove the consequences of bad business decisions through government subsidy and you remove the incentive to make good one's.

This is a predictable result. One might even think it was the desired one.


-Rob


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## shesulsa (Mar 14, 2009)

The Obamasiah said he was going to stop this.

:lookie:

Well, Mr. President? The world is waiting ....


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 15, 2009)

He's busy. Him and the Queen need to have their make up done for their next magazine cover.


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## Thesemindz (Mar 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> He's busy. Him and the Queen need to have their make up done for their next magazine cover.


 

Oooooohhhh. Burn. 

Can we get some aloe vera on that burn? Or a little vitamin E? Some cucumber?


-Rob


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 15, 2009)

The BarackStar is Busy!


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## MJS (Mar 15, 2009)

Umm....sorry for being blunt, but...

I say, **** them!!!!  They obviously don't give a **** about anything or anyone else except their own SELFISH pockets, so now, I say, no more of ANYTHING for them!  We bail their sorry *** out, and this is what they turn around and do?  **** AIG, **** the execs and their bonuses, **** them all!

Man, that felt good!


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## Thesemindz (Mar 15, 2009)

MJS said:


> Umm....sorry for being blunt, but...
> 
> I say, **** them!!!! They obviously don't give a **** about anything or anyone else except their own SELFISH pockets, so now, I say, no more of ANYTHING for them! We bail their sorry *** out, and this is what they turn around and do? **** AIG, **** the execs and their bonuses, **** them all!
> 
> Man, that felt good!


 

The thing is, I don't have any problem with a company paying umpteen billion dollars in bonuses to their employees. It just shouldn't come out of the tax payers' pockets.


-Rob


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## MJS (Mar 15, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> The thing is, I don't have any problem with a company paying umpteen billion dollars in bonuses to their employees. It just shouldn't come out of the tax payers' pockets.
> 
> 
> -Rob


 
I agree 100%.  My post was geared to the aftermath of their carelessness.


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## Thesemindz (Mar 15, 2009)

MJS said:


> I agree 100%. My post was geared to the aftermath of their carelessness.


 
Oh I totally agree. I'm not arguing with the point you were making.


-Rob


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## Senjojutsu (Mar 15, 2009)

MJS said:


> Umm....sorry for being blunt, but...
> 
> I say, **** them!!!! They obviously don't give a **** about anything or anyone else except their own SELFISH pockets, so now, I say, no more of ANYTHING for them! We bail their sorry *** out, and this is what they turn around and do? **** AIG, **** the execs and their bonuses, **** them all!
> 
> Man, that felt good!


But now tell us how you really feel. (You have)


_"We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses, which are now being operated principally on behalf of the American taxpayers &#8212; if employees believe their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury," Liddy said._

The Ministry of Information should give an annual award for this logic bomb.

I mean we taxpayers should be *soooooooooo *grateful.
Imagine how big AIG losses would have been last year if they had hired dumb, underachieving, ne&#8217;er-do-well types.

Another thing I always thought in The Dreaded Private Sector that &#8220;performance bonuses&#8221; would be linked to PROFIT or COMPANY STOCK performance. 
Having record losses is not in this paradigm, yes? 
:shock:

Retention bonuses, how many current AIG executives would/could leave these days? 
*CALL OUT THIS BLUFF TODAY.*

This reasoning is as obscene as when your State Legislatures raise judges' pay (and often piggyback their own raises into the bill) in order to _&#8220;retain the highest quality legal minds on the bench&#8221;. _

Can anyone show me any examples with state judges &#8211; who voluntarily return to private law practice where you have to work long hours and fund your own pensions. Of course we would need to filter those judges under ethics investigations, or recently arrested for DUI, kiddie porn, or tax dodging. Please show me/us those turnover rates!

In the end, both are *LIES!!!*


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## Marginal (Mar 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...4/national/w154601D88.DTL&type=business&tsp=1
> 
> 
> I hope every last one of then choke on their caviar.


Ah the efficiency of private business. I wish the whole country was left to run under similar levels of efficiency.


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## grydth (Mar 15, 2009)

There's always the temptation to turn these into political footballs, but the country's problems are far deeper than the defects of any one political party.  

To me, the more troublesome question is how this cannibal corporation can succeed in getting huge amounts of taxpayer money from both Republican and Democratic administrations.... and what allows them to feel so smug as to publicly squander it? (And yes, I do define bonuses for officers of a failing entity as squandering. Once, this country rewarded success).

A second point makes me wonder whether the USA has slid past the point of no return. The pathological greed of the _already super rich_ has been on display again and again during this recession.... recall the 4 Merrill Lynch execs who made off with $21 million as their once flagship company went under (I am old enough to recall when this atrocity wasn't termed a "bonus". It was called embezzling). How can we expect to recover with this ilk in charge of the business sector?

We've long been told from various quarters that we were most threatened by the exploding and gas gouging A-rabs, or the inscrutable scheming Chinese hordes, or the spineless Europeeeens, or the nouveau Commie Russians. or sneaky Mexicans....... now, let's wake up. Nobody has done more damage to America in recent years - stealing, corrupting, offshoring, closing, squandering, mismanaging - than our very own (mostly white) upper class executives. They are killing us.... and they are making still more money doing so.


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## Gordon Nore (Mar 15, 2009)

It seems to me that I heard that AIG had acquired another financial institution that already had these bonuses -- as distasteful as they are -- in place. I'm curious as to the consequences of AIG reneging on these commitments or the administration attempting force them to do so.


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## Thesemindz (Mar 15, 2009)

Marginal said:


> Ah the efficiency of private business. I wish the whole country was left to run under similar levels of efficiency.


 
This doesn't have anything to do with the efficiency of the private sector. When the government decided to subsidize their business practices, they removed the incentive for efficacy. 

In the future these businessmen will be even more irresponsible, because they will figure a government bailout into their risk analyses. Absent an influx of government monies, these businesses would be faced with either reducing expenses or shutting their doors.

You get more of what you subsidize. Our government has chosen to subsidize failing businesses. 

Guess what we can expect more of.


-Rob


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## Thesemindz (Mar 15, 2009)

grydth said:


> We've long been told from various quarters that we were most threatened by the exploding and gas gouging A-rabs, or the inscrutable scheming Chinese hordes, or the spineless Europeeeens, or the nouveau Commie Russians. or sneaky Mexicans....... now, let's wake up. Nobody has done more damage to America in recent years - stealing, corrupting, offshoring, closing, squandering, mismanaging - than our very own (mostly white) upper class executives. They are killing us.... and they are making still more money doing so.


 
They wouldn't be able to accomplish their misdeeds without aid from the government. 

Corporatism protects them from personal liability. "Stimulus" packages protect them from the consequences of their actions. The list goes on.

Absent government aid, these failing businesses would fail. In the presence of that aid, they flourish.


-Rob


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## grydth (Mar 15, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> They wouldn't be able to accomplish their misdeeds without aid from the government.
> 
> Corporatism protects them from personal liability. "Stimulus" packages protect them from the consequences of their actions. The list goes on.
> 
> ...



Sadly, the reverse is also true.... in this era of buying political office, too many in government could not survive elections without corporate contributions... and said corporations expect something (one's soul) for the money given.

I am not entirely certain that all of these fat thieves are immune form personal liability. Some acts are so grotesque as to transcend that. The real question is whether their are prosecutors who will go after them.

Sad thing is, the businesses aren't even thriving.... its money down a rat hole.... or into thieves' already bulging pockets.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...4/national/w154601D88.DTL&type=business&tsp=1
> 
> 
> I hope every last one of then choke on their caviar.



I find this appalling. 

I know I have sent e-mails to my senators and representatives about this. 

People are up in arms for the possibility of $30 billion for Gm but AIG gets multiple bail outs with lots more money and while Congress forces job cuts and pay buts within the Auto Industry they allow and condone Bonuses. 


If I could I would explain to them in person my frustration.


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## terryl965 (Mar 15, 2009)

Rich Parsons said:


> I find this appalling.
> 
> I know I have sent e-mails to my senators and representatives about this.
> 
> ...


 

Rich you would scare the crap out of them.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 15, 2009)

Rich would have to live a thousand years to scare all the crap out of them, they are soooo full of it.


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## Marginal (Mar 16, 2009)

Thesemindz said:


> This doesn't have anything to do with the efficiency of the private sector. When the government decided to subsidize their business practices, they removed the incentive for efficacy.


Any system is only as efficient as it needs to be. Unregulated business would not be more efficient.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 16, 2009)

It gets deeper. Apparently, our good friends the French, the Germans, and the British have decided to siphon off a few billion of that latest round of bailout money we gave AIG:

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-CreditCrisis/idUSTRE52F29720090316

But they were 'entirely within their rights', you see.



> Among European banks, SocGen was the biggest recipient at $11.9 billion, Deutsche Bank AG received $11.8 billion and the UK's Barclays Plc was paid $8.5 billion.
> AIG, which has received federal bailouts totaling $173 billion, said on Sunday it had paid billions of dollars to a number of banks, partially in the form of collateral to back up credit default swaps, a form of financial insurance.


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## cdunn (Mar 16, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> It gets deeper. Apparently, our good friends the French, the Germans, and the British have decided to siphon off a few billion of that latest round of bailout money we gave AIG:
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-CreditCrisis/idUSTRE52F29720090316
> 
> But they were 'entirely within their rights', you see.


 

It is ******** that what they insured was insurable, but the basic function of the American Insurance Group _is_ to pay people for their losses when things go south. Problem is, their business model only works when not everyone goes south at oncew


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## cdunn (Mar 16, 2009)

Bleh, it double posted.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 16, 2009)

cdunn said:


> It is ******** that what they insured was insurable, but the basic function of the American Insurance Group _is_ to pay people for their losses when things go south. Problem is, their business model only works when not everyone goes south at oncew



So, not only are we giving away our grandkids and greatgrandkids money, but we're exporting it people who hate our guts and tell us how awful we are on a daily basis?

Somebody explain that one to me.  Because frankly, I think it sucks.


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## cdunn (Mar 16, 2009)

Oh, it sucks, I fully agree. 

However, if your house burns down, you're going to put in a claim to your homeowners, and they're contractually obligated to pay - it's why you pay them so much money every year. Same deal here. This is money that AIG is contractually obligated to pay to banks all over the place, because they got paid a boatload of money to do so, but less than the total amount that they were insuring plus their overhead. This is how insurance companies function. You expect that you will have x outlay per time unit, so you charge your customers enough that the total incoming per time unit is x + some profit. You can then jigger it around so people who are more likely to take more money pay more in, and so people less likely to take money pay less, but the principle is the same.

AIG is in the uncomfortable position where they were insuring most of San Francisco... and it's 1906. It can be argued that funding their insurance outlays is the most efficient way to put money in the sectors where it is most needed, but I think it just papers over the gigantic hole in the wall, without patching it.


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## Phoenix44 (Mar 16, 2009)

I hope you all called your Senators and Representatives today to let them know you're furious that the companies they're bailing out are using our money not only for CEO bonuses, but also to pay off FOREIGN BANKS.  

I did. And tonight, I'm sending them my daughter's tuition bill.  I figure since they don't give a damn what they're doing with my money, they may as well give a measly $50,000 to her college.


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## zDom (Mar 16, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...4/national/w154601D88.DTL&type=business&tsp=1


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## zDom (Mar 16, 2009)

grydth said:


> We've long been told from various quarters that we were most threatened by the exploding and gas gouging A-rabs, or the inscrutable scheming Chinese hordes, or the spineless Europeeeens, or the nouveau Commie Russians. or sneaky Mexicans....... now, let's wake up. *Nobody has done more damage to America in recent years - stealing, corrupting, offshoring, closing, squandering, mismanaging - than our very own (mostly white) upper class executives. They are killing us.... and they are making still more money doing so.*



QFT, bolded by me.


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 16, 2009)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/16/AIG.bonuses/index.html


> Obama tries to stop AIG bonuses: 'How do they justify this outrage?'



Because Mr. President, you, your VP, and your esteemed Secretary of State, as well as your former co-traitors in Congress let it happen, but rushing through a flawed bailout plan with no requirement for transparency, nor penalties for taking the money and crapping on us, or you.  Good work sir, a testament of that which is to come I'm sure.



> He noted in a written statement that executives at other companies that received bailout funds have volunteered to forgo bonuses. "There's no reason why those at AIG shouldn't do the same," he said.



Of course there is. They're under no obligation to restrict what they did with all that free cash you all gave them, despite what "We The People" wanted.



> (*New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo*) He said he had already asked for the names and titles of the people who are to receive the payments, "and it is surprising that you have yet to provide this information."
> "Covering up the details of these payments breeds further cynicism and distrust in our already shaken financial system."
> He added that he also is seeking "whatever contracts you now claim obligate you to make these payments" and the names of whoever negotiated them.
> 
> ...



Maybe those requirements and obligations should have been included as terms for accepting the money, ya think?


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## Gordon Nore (Mar 16, 2009)

grydth said:


> We've long been told from various quarters that we were most threatened by the exploding and gas gouging A-rabs, or the inscrutable scheming Chinese hordes, or the spineless Europeeeens, or the nouveau Commie Russians. or sneaky Mexicans....... now, let's wake up. Nobody has done more damage to America in recent years - stealing, corrupting, offshoring, closing, squandering, mismanaging - than our very own (mostly white) upper class executives. They are killing us.... and they are making still more money doing so.



I missed this the first time around, but seeing it quoted above, I wanted to call attention to this worthy argument. Whether or not they've done more damage, they've done a lot of damage. The entitled attitude about bonuses is completely out of whack with the reality of working people who entrust their funds and futures to these guys.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 18, 2009)

Whats Good, Whats Bad About the AIG Bailout - U.S.News


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## Gordon Nore (Mar 18, 2009)

Notwithstanding the outrage over these retention bonuses and the threats against Liddy and the mostly unnamed recipients, I've noticed a change of tone amongst politicos of all stripes.

Last night on CNN I was listening to Ariana Huffington, Ben Stein, and two congresswomen (1 Dem, 1 Rep), all speaking basically the same language. Rather than pinning this situation on either Bush or Obama specifically as Presidents, they addressed broader problems in the financial sector and the US's ability to oversee it. Most interestingly, there was a very consistent tone of 'The American people effectively own AIG.' 

That sentiment, I thought, was articulated in Committee hearings broadcast today. When the bank and auto bailout processes began, there was skittishness about interfering with the market. Now, many billions of dollars later, more people seemed to be saying, "We own the damn company. Straighten up and fly right."


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## Flea (Mar 18, 2009)

This morning I heard that AIG now has armed guards patrolling their major headquarters.  Seems they've gotten hundreds of threatening communications, including death threats.  Not that I sanction behavior like that, but ... it's a little hard to sympathize too.

Bill, when I looked up your link on European banks taking their slice, two of the links at the bottom of the story were nothing short of poetic.  "No Safe Haven for Artful Tax Dodgers" and a photo essay on a tent city in Sacramento.  Shee... you can't script that sort of thing.


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## Gordon Nore (Mar 18, 2009)

Flea said:


> This morning I heard that AIG now has armed guards patrolling their major headquarters.  Seems they've gotten hundreds of threatening communications, including death threats.  Not that I sanction behavior like that, but ... it's a little hard to sympathize too.



Regardless of what language was in the bailout legislation or in the AIG contracts with their execs, the decision to go ahead with the retention bonuses was bound to yield a flurry of negative responses. 



> Bill, when I looked up your link on European banks taking their slice, two of the links at the bottom of the story were nothing short of poetic.  "No Safe Haven for Artful Tax Dodgers" and a photo essay on a tent city in Sacramento.  Shee... you can't script that sort of thing.



I caught something about this today to. They didn't have to pay anything to their European debtors; they simply could have put up collateral.


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 18, 2009)

http://www.pink-floyd-lyrics.com/html/not-now-john-final-lyrics.html

_**Note: lyrics contain profanity - G Ketchmark / shesulsa, MT Assist. Administrator**_


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