# I'm So Sick of This!!!!



## Makalakumu (May 7, 2005)

A few recent events in our MT KMA community have really bothered me.

How in the world can so many knowledgeable KMA practicioners get themselves banned from MT?  People with so much training and so much knowledge should be able to handle themselves with a little more dignity and respect.  We KMA practicioners are really losing out as a community because of this ego-stroking hairy chest beating testosteroni!

It's time to check the egos at the door, folks...otherwise we'll end up the laughing stock of the MA community.

Yours with humility and sincerity

upnorthkyosa


----------



## ajs1976 (May 7, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> A few recent events in our MT KMA community have really bothered me.
> 
> How in the world can so many knowledgeable KMA practicioners get themselves banned from MT? People with so much training and so much knowledge should be able to handle themselves with a little more dignity and respect. We KMA practicioners are really losing out as a community because of this ego-stroking hairy chest beating testosteroni!
> 
> ...


I agree.


----------



## Satt (May 7, 2005)

I feel ya. I lot of my first friends on here got banned from the different "Ninjutsu" forums. They just couldn't keep their "mouths" shut. :idunno:


----------



## tsdclaflin (May 7, 2005)

My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for mans anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. (From the Bible, James 1:19-20)

Amen!


----------



## Andy Cap (May 7, 2005)

I was wondering about all of the closed accounts.  Are they closed because some people lost their cool or what?  I would hope that all martial artists woudl have the patience and humility to listen to other opinions and perspectives.


----------



## Makalakumu (May 7, 2005)

I'm curious as to whether or not its the MA community as a whole that is prone to this type of political bickering or if it is just really bad in the KMA community?

People get so caught up in this Kwan business and the conversations are so depressingly boring.  How could anyone get pissed off by this stuff!

upnorthkyosa


----------



## Bob Hubbard (May 7, 2005)

Accounts are closed when they've been inactive for a while (usually 2-3 months.)

There are currently 61 banned users, about 10 are KMA, 4 "name" level.
Theres about 4-6 "name" level folks in the rest banned.
In 4 years, we have received about 12 threats of legal action, 9 of which were from individuals involved in the Korean Arts.  The other 3 were from known frauds or criminals. (1 was a sex offender).

I would have to say the amount of "pissing in the punchbowl" that we've seen in the past has been out of proportion given the member base and traffic, but the issues have tended to be the -superheated- ones.  Discussions of these issues with other webmasters has indicated similar problems elsewhere, usually around the same individuals and issues.  Kenpo, Arnis and Ninjutsu have all in the last few years also had their share of "open warfare", just more done at the 'soldier' level than the 'general' level.

Whenever someone is banned, their friends and supporters tend to also leave to support their associate. What we do not normally reveal is the email back-n-forth that happens after we issue a warning or suspension.  Most of the time, a warning is sent out and we get a "sorry, won't happen again" back. Tis all good.  A few times, we get an argument.  Some of these arguments have turned ugly, resulting in a suspension. When it turns to threats, we tend to ban.  I'm sorry, I don't care if the person who sent the warning was 15 years your junior. It was a staff member of this site doing their job. The cop pulling you over for running that traffic light doesn't have to out rank you. They have a job to do it, and the less grief you give them over it means less grief all around.

We don't like suspending people.
We hate banning them.

But...MT isn't a place to puff the chest, wave the ego, and be a pompous jackass.

If the old masters in their hundreds, when asked , will say they at 100 are just getting the hang of it....why do some in their 50's think they are "all that and a bag of chips"?

I'll always have more to learn. Thats why MT is here.
So we can all learn.


Sorry....didn't mean to ramble like that.


----------



## Miles (May 7, 2005)

I noticed someone who posted regularly was banned and asked a moderator privately about it.

 While it is good that people have strong opinions, this is a discussion board.  

 We are all students, just on different paths toward the same destination.  Let's not argue whether it is better to drive a Ford or a Chevy.  It is good enough that we are moving forward...  Let's move forward as a group.

 Miles

 PS-on a related personal level, if I have offended anyone please note it was not intentional


----------



## Paul B (May 7, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> ....if it is just really bad in the KMA community?


I would say it's really bad in the KMA "on-line presence". 

In the community,I really don't hear too much of the lineage and authenticity questions and associated claptrap....I think that it should really be the opposite. 

If it needs to be said at all,say it in private. There are a ton of better things to talk about on an international forum,no? Unfortunately, it's easier for some people to be negative than to actually contribute something of value. 

Like UNK mentioned...This type of behavior doesn't reflect well on us not only as KMAists,but as people,students and teachers as well. For shame.


----------



## Andy Cap (May 7, 2005)

Thank you for the explanation Kaith.  I agree with you completely.  I have many questions and opinions about KMA and Kwans, but I don't claim to be 100% correct.  I have found that a lot of martial artists, and not just KMA have great egos. Too bad really.


----------



## Raewyn (May 7, 2005)

I like to post, but there have been certain instances where I havent due to the fact Ill get stomped on and it has been the feeling I have gotten.  There was one instance where I was asking about grappling(stand and flick break fall) and got asked why was I asking that and I should'nt be asking that if I dont train in grappling!!!  Go figure.

I have learnt alot just by reading alot of the posts and have had most of my questions answered without having to ask any.  This is an awesome site.  It is just a shame that there are people out there that can sometimes ruin the expereince.  Just have to take the good with the bad!


----------



## Cryozombie (May 7, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I feel ya. I lot of my first friends on here got banned from the different "Ninjutsu" forums. They just couldn't keep their "mouths" shut. :idunno:


 It was more than that man... Trust me, behind the scenes it was ugly.  Far worse than what you saw in the forums.

 Eek.


----------



## arnisador (May 7, 2005)

The KMA fora here have always seemed underpopulated...MartialTalk needs more KMA folks! That'll put a better attitudein place (hopefully).


----------



## bignick (May 8, 2005)

Well, I try...but everyone knows I've got a bad attitude


----------



## Andrew Green (May 8, 2005)

I don't think it unique to KMA, but to a good portion of higher ranking folk.  It just so happens that the Korean styles have the highest percentage of those...

 What sometimes isn't realised is that although these big forums are broken down into seperate style boards, the forum as a whole is mixed with people reading and posting everywhere.

 And right there lies the problem...  The longer you are in charge the more used to being in charge you get, and it is harder and harder to step back into a non-dominant position even if you are clearly out of your element.  Same thing happens in Education with teachers.

 So the "big" guys often come on and immediately try to assume a dominant position of authority... Only it doesn't work due to the massive diversity and  the fact that there real world rank and status don't afford them any special priveledges online.  Especially since many of the older instructors have been teaching the same material, or at least the same history and explanations for years.  

 Well, much research has been done and information shared since then.  Old mistakes have been corrected and advances made across the board.  Those that where in relative isolation (club/association) might not be up to date on everything, but are used to not being questioned on it.

 So defensiveness and flames follow, then people get banned and others upset cause there "senior" got banned...

 Forums are a place for people that want to learn, not people that are only here to "teach".  After doing nothing but teaching for years its not that uncommon to forget how to be a student...


----------



## John Bishop (May 8, 2005)

A few bad attitudes appear in every martial art, occupation, race, gender, and family.  It's just a fact of life.
Like Kaith pointed out, there are 10 KMA practitioners who have been banned, but there are 51 banned members who are not KMA practitioners.  So I don't think it makes the KMA community look any better or worse then any other MA community.
I think any topic can be argued by people with strong opinions if they simply practice some curtesy and respect. Isn't that a big part of martial arts training? 
People can put across strong opinions, backed by facts, experience, or the opinions of others.  Very strong arguments can be given, and a lot can be learned without having to resort to personal attacks, or insults. 
A little bit of respect goes a long way in getting one's point across, and having a meaningful dialog. We can't learn if we can't communicate.


----------



## shesulsa (May 8, 2005)

*Looks at the previous posts and tearfully cries ....*

_You like me!  You really like me!   :lol:

_There are so many good points here I can't possibly quote them all without ganking the thread up.

 I've actually had people say to me, once they found out I studying a Korean martial art, something like, "There's a lot of in-fighting in KMA, isn't there?  Why would anyone need to fight KMAists? Y'all fight with each other enough!"

 While it's true that every art has it's in-fighting, we do seem to have quite a bit of it and some folks view KMA as the problem child of the martial arts world.

 I'd like to think things are beginning to turn around and we are going to move forward in the west to a point where the majority of us are learning from each other, sharing with each other, growing with each other and forwarding the arts in west while a few are still arguing about lineage, origin and modification.

 I ask all you folks who are or who know other Korean martial artists to invite them here.  Right now, MartialTalk is the place to be, unless you want to bust frauds, complain about others, and get into a pissing match.  This is a GREAT place to learn, to discuss, to share, to hang, without all the B.S. (which you can get anywhere).  That's why I'm here, anyway.

 C'mon, let's grow this Korean section!


----------



## Jonathan Randall (May 25, 2005)

shesulsa[size=4 said:
			
		

> While it's true that every art has it's in-fighting, we do seem to have quite a bit of it and some folks view KMA as the problem child of the martial arts world.
> [/size]


I don't know about that. In my experience, Kenpo has KMA beat (at least in recent years) in the infighting category and who can forget the Chung, Leung Ting schools grudgee in Wing Chun or certain grappling styles' and MMA's insults upon traditional MAs? No, infighting unfortunately is endemic to all the arts. Perhaps we could do our part in preventing this by being good role models in our own personal conduct and treating others and their dissenting opinions with courtesy. Remember, courtesy does not imply AGREEMENT.


----------

