# What's worse than endless petty bickering over WC....



## geezer (Apr 14, 2017)

Hey all, you know how_ tiresome _all the petty bickering over WV/VT/WT minutia can be. especially when it drags on for page after page with the same two or three people endlessly re-hashing the same tired points and not listening to each other. 

Well, you know what's worse?

When some of those  same people, who are in fact _experienced and knowledgeable_, and who on other threads _did _contribute a lot to this forum ...got fed up and left, or perhaps were banned for occasional indiscretions typed in the heat of an argument.

And... have you noticed how dull and dead it is around here lately? I'm actually beginning to miss LFJ and KPM going at it. What happened with those guys anyway? 

...And what's it going to take to get this forum going again??? Your thoughts please.


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## guy c (Apr 14, 2017)

KPM got banned for swearing. I think LFJ just got sick of this place (it is very dull). They are posting at kung fu magazine at the moment, but unlikley to last very long because KPM still conducting his silly vendetta.

Suggestions to recover your forum would be to reduce moderation, be less PC (much less), stop engaging in us against them type politics, be less touchy and sensitive, don't repel people who know what they are talking about while supporting idiots with nothing valuable to say, don't mandate a relativist view of every topic. 

Good luck with it


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## geezer (Apr 14, 2017)

guy c said:


> *KPM got banned for swearing.* I think LFJ just got sick of this place (it is very dull). They are posting at kung fu magazine at the moment, but unlikly to last very long because KPM still conducting his silly vendetta.



I figured that KPM probably got himself in trouble for swearing and LFJ drifted away without his nemesis to confront. What about you Guy? Why did _you_ get banned? 

...and why do you keep coming back on new accounts when you know you'll just get booted again? At least this time you did use your own name instead of masquerading as some Dutchman or something!


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## guy c (Apr 14, 2017)

I got banned for using 2 guy b accounts I think. It's hard to know because they send a message saying you have been banned but unreadable because banned. Not very well organised. 

It has actually been a real liberation not having to read the crap on here every day and feel the need to respond


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm not that experienced or knowledgeable when it comes to WT, but I'm going to a couple of WT seminars over the next two weekends so maybe I can bring some questions or commentary based on those to the forum once their done. At least I can write up reviews of the seminars for anyone who is interested.


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## wckf92 (Apr 14, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm not that experienced or knowledgeable when it comes to WT, but I'm going to a couple of WT seminars over the next two weekends so maybe I can bring some questions or commentary based on those to the forum once their done. At least I can write up reviews of the seminars for anyone who is interested.



Sure! I'd be interested.
Where are the seminars being held?


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 14, 2017)

wckf92 said:


> Sure! I'd be interested.
> Where are the seminars being held?


In Louisville. @yak sao is hosting them.


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## Buka (Apr 14, 2017)

Why would somebody keep going to a place they hated?


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## JR 137 (Apr 14, 2017)

Buka said:


> Why would somebody keep going to a place they hated?



Reminds me of a scene in Howard Stern's Private Parts movie...

Numbers guy: "The average Stern fan listens for 24 minutes"
Pig vomit: "Why?"
Numbers guy: "Most common response: I want to hear what he'll say next."
Pig vomit: "What about the people who hate him?"
Numbers guy: "The average Stern hater listens for 1 hour and 36 minutes."
Pig vomit: "But if the hate him, why do they listen to him?"
Numbers guy: "Most common response: I want to hear what he'll say next."


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## Buka (Apr 14, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Reminds me of a scene in Howard Stern's Private Parts movie...
> 
> Numbers guy: "The average Stern fan listens for 24 minutes"
> Pig vomit: "Why?"
> ...



I didn't like Stern when he was first on. Grew to enjoy his radio show, a lot. Read the book first, loved it. Saw the movie and loved it even more.

And the name Pig Vomit - that just rocks. As did Giamatti's portrayal of the character.

And, yeah, you're probably right, bro.


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## drop bear (Apr 14, 2017)

Buka said:


> Why would somebody keep going to a place they hated?



Life really isnt supposed to be bland.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 14, 2017)

Buka said:


> Why would somebody keep going to a place they hated?



Some people like to be upset.


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## Eric_H (Apr 14, 2017)

I just don't get much out of forums anymore so I keep my participation to a minimum. They're rather antiquated compared to the FB groups that have literally thousands of active members daily.


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## LFJ (Apr 15, 2017)

geezer said:


> I figured that KPM probably got himself in trouble for swearing and LFJ drifted away without his nemesis to confront.



Actually, I've posted since he got banned, and wouldn't you know, they were quite civil and productive threads.

Chinese Spear and WC's pole
Loi Lau Hoi Song, Lat Sau Jik Chong

Just, nothing of interest has come up since, and I don't usually have anything to start a topic on.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 15, 2017)

geezer said:


> Hey all, you know how_ tiresome _all the petty bickering over WV/VT/WT minutia can be. especially when it drags on for page after page with the same two or three people endlessly re-hashing the same tired points and not listening to each other.
> 
> Well, you know what's worse?
> 
> ...


I don't miss the chaos.  There have been some really informative conversations going on, it's just not Wing Chun related.  I don't miss the "my way or the highway attitudes"  If I was a WT practitioner I would take the opportunity to share things that otherwise would have caused an "internal wing chun fight"   If you have concepts about Wing Chun now is probably the best time to share your thoughts without the punishing follow up comments.


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## geezer (Apr 15, 2017)

LFJ said:


> Actually, I've posted since he got banned, and wouldn't you know, they were quite civil and productive threads.



That's because most of us can disagree without taking it personally and getting angry. 

I have disagreed with things you have said, but at the same time I know that, for a bone-head like me to really tell one way or the other is to experience what you are talking about, i.e. to study some quality WSL VT and see for myself. So far I haven't had that opportunity.

On the other hand, I must say that I find it ironic that when I went back over to that "other forum" I found that you and KPM were  once again engaged in the same old bickering, going on page after page. Pretty funny!


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## LFJ (Apr 16, 2017)

geezer said:


> I found that you and KPM were  once again engaged in the same old bickering, going on page after page. Pretty funny!



Yup, I just like to speak my mind, but he's a prideful grudge-holder who likes to troll.

We all do better when we don't take things personally and actually acknowledge valid points or disagree in an adultlike manner.


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## KangTsai (Apr 16, 2017)

The best way was to keep the WC conflicts as a running gag, which would have spawned countless joke threads.


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## KPM (Apr 16, 2017)

geezer said:


> I figured that KPM probably got himself in trouble for swearing and LFJ drifted away without his nemesis to confront. What about you Guy? Why did _you_ get banned?
> 
> ...and why do you keep coming back on new accounts when you know you'll just get booted again? At least this time you did use your own name instead of masquerading as some Dutchman or something!




Yep!  I was banned for 1 month for "excessive rudeness."  Really because I used a "bad word."  LFJ was being just as rude, but avoided using bad words and so nothing happened to him.  He has figured out that you can say someone is "being dishonest" rather than calling them a "liar" and it flies under the radar because the moderators don't really read for content.

He and Guy followed me over to the other forum and proceeded to turn at least two of the threads I started there into heated arguments, as per usual.  I was repeatedly called a troll, a liar, a moron, autistic,  and a psychopathic *******.   Go figure!   But you don't have to take my word for it.  You can check out the threads yourself.  

What's worse is that LFJ essentially disrespected my friend Phil Redmond.  Phil posted on the thread to back up what I was saying, and noted that he had used the thing we were talking about successfully in fighting and sparring.  LFJ essentially blew him off and refused to believe what Phil was  saying if Phil didn't have youtube footage to prove it.  

Now I was a good boy, I took my lumps here, honored my ban, and didn't try to come back by creating another account.   However, Guy B. is now back under, what, his third or fourth account since being permanently banned?  And this time he isn't even trying to lie to us all about who he is?  And yet there is a moderator posting on this very thread that hasn't bothered to do anything about it????  How does that work???  

I really think this forum needs its own moderator.  A Wing Chun guy that is going to actually read for content and recognize when someone is stirring up trouble, even if they are using "polite language" as they do so!   I would nominate Geezer for the task, if he is willing.  

Moderators....are you paying attention?   What do you say?


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## geezer (Apr 16, 2017)

KPM said:


> Moderators....are you paying attention?   What do you say?



I think the moderators are on top of things. You'll note that "Guy C's" profile page is_ not available._ That usually indicates being banned.

Anyway good to have you back Keith. Just keep a close watch on the profanity when someone provokes you!

Now down to business. I thought your foundation was _Pin Sun._ Then, I got the impression that you began investigating Alan Orr's_ CSL_ via extension learning and videos in order to further your functional fighting/sparring skills.

Now I gather you are turning to _TWC?? _I'm surprised. I'm not a fan of that lineage in general, although everything I've come across by Phil Redmond seems sensible, and he seems like a knowledgeable guy who does test his stuff.

So now that you are back, how about an update. Then we can get back to petty bickering!


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 16, 2017)

KPM said:


> Moderators....are you paying attention?   What do you say?



As always, we say that actions taken with regards to members other than yourself are, bluntly, none of your business.


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## KPM (Apr 16, 2017)

Dirty Dog said:


> As always, we say that actions taken with regards to members other than yourself are, bluntly, none of your business.



Dude, why so "rude" and "unfriendly"?   I meant what do you say about this forum having its own moderator?


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## KPM (Apr 16, 2017)

*I think the moderators are on top of things. You'll note that "Guy C's" profile page is not available. That usually indicates being banned.*

---It wasn't when I made my post.  I checked before posting.  But don't ask!  Or you'll be told "its none of your darn business!"  

*Anyway good to have you back Keith. Just keep a close watch on the profanity when someone provokes you!*

---Yes, I will do that!     Its just very annoying that someone can act just as "rude" and "unfriendly" but carefully phrase things and so that nothing happens to them.  


*Now down to business. I thought your foundation was Pin Sun. Then, I got the impression that you began investigating Alan Orr's CSL via extension learning and videos in order to further your functional fighting/sparring skills.*

---I did Ip Man Wing Chun for many years.  First directly from Joy, and then traveling back and forth to Tucson to work with Augustine Fong directly on multiple occasions.  Then I did TWC, traveling to Baltimore to study with John Clayton in a series of private lessons.  Did that for awhile, and then got into Pin Sun.  I made several visits to Boston to study with Jim Roselando.  Got away from it for awhile and did other things.  More recently went back to Boston a few times to study with Marc Kenney under the direct supervision of Henry Mui.  Looked into the CSL approach because they do talk about some of the same type of biomechanics as in Pin Sun.  I've only recently returned to TWC, because I came to the conclusion that the footwork and angling was just much better for a sparring/fighting situation.  Of course, my TWC is certainly not "textbook"!  There is a distinct "Pin Sun" flavor still to what I do.  And I like to think I've been able to incorporate some of things from Alan's level one material that I worked through.  So my TWC has much more "body dynamic" for power generation that most I think.

*Now I gather you are turning to TWC?? I'm surprised. I'm not a fan of that lineage in general, although everything I've come across by Phil Redmond seems sensible, and he seems like a knowledgeable guy who does test his stuff.*

---Yeah, Phil is a good guy.  He moved to the west coast a few years back, otherwise I would try and hook up with him for some training.

*So now that you are back, how about an update. Then we can get back to petty bickering! *

---Well, its never boring!


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## jks9199 (Apr 16, 2017)

Thread locked, pending staff review.

A few comments while that is going on...  Staff have jobs and lives and obligations outside of MT.  We're volunteers, so may not always catch everything as fast as we'd like.  You can help us by using the RTM button, then letting us do our job.  We do not discuss actions taken involving members publicly; I think we've made ONE exception in a very special case in the time I've been here.  Just because you don't see something happen to someone else doesn't mean we didn't take action.


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