# Spirituality and martial arts...



## Bushido (Jun 17, 2002)

Do you "practice" the spiritual dimention of martial arts? I said "practice"...living it...experiencing it, throught your training and daily life. Some people are afraid of the word "spirituality", they sometimes accociate it with mystic, rituals, or paranormal so replace it by "self-discovery", "self-analysis", "conciousness". 

So, tell me...

-Bushido


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## GouRonin (Jun 17, 2002)

Yes I do. Mine.


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## Bushido (Jun 17, 2002)

As I do. What for does it take.

-Bushido


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## sweeper (Jun 17, 2002)

kinda....  but rather I would say I apply my own phylosophies to martial art so it makes sence to me (rather than adopting a martial arts spiritual aspects).


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## Yari (Jun 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bushido _
> 
> *Do you "practice" the spiritual dimention of martial arts? I said "practice"...living it...experiencing it, throught your training and daily life. Some people are afraid of the word "spirituality", they sometimes accociate it with mystic, rituals, or paranormal so replace it by "self-discovery", "self-analysis", "conciousness".
> 
> ...



What is your definision of spiritual?

/Yari


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## Bod (Jun 18, 2002)

My definition of spiritual -

OK this may sound odd but I see myself as having four ways of mentally solving a problem:

1 - Rational - You add it all up and (hopefully) out pops an answer. You can trace all the decisions and logic all the way back from the answer to the question.

2 - Emotional - You do whatever makes you feel good, and it is usually the first thing that comes into your mind.

3 - Physical - You just see it - the action to be performed. Maybe you see somebody else do it then copy it with out breaking it down and analysing it like you would if you were thinking rationally. Maybe you just practise until it feels correct.

4 - Spiritual - You sit quietly and everything that ever happened in your life just comes together without you realising it and BANG out pops an answer.

Perhaps there are other ways, and they aren't exactly exclusive. Most people mean one of the first three when they say spiritual, especially the first two.

e.g.
1 - Their preacher tells them to do something for some REASON or other. 

2 - They smile HAPPILY and say - 'That's my spiritual side'. Or they get a warm, gooey, self-satisfied FEELING when doing their forms or kata and believe it is some spiritual force.

Discuss.


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## islandtime (Jun 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bushido _
> 
> *Do you "practice" the spiritual dimention of martial arts? I said "practice"...living it...experiencing it, throught your training and daily life.
> -Bushido *


....................................................................................

I really didn't get too spiritual untill I started Iai.
 I consider it a type of Zen discipline and treat it as such..

 All of this flows to my regular life as I try to remain that calm I need with the sword.. 

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt..
But I keep at it anyway



Gene Gabel:asian:


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 20, 2002)

I atempt to  Sometimes  I do at othertimes I do not.
Like all things in life sometimes the more we try the more distant the goal becomes.  It must just happen and be there rather than to be practiced.
Shadow  :asian:


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## Monkey King (Jun 20, 2002)

> It must just happen and be there rather than to be practiced.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most practitioners stop practicing after 2nd or 3rd black? 

My point is... that rather than make it a lifetime study, which is where the spirituality happens as you get up there in mastery, most people are not committed to take it to that level. Because you have to deal with yourself and your inner most being.


This is too heavy...someboady order me a taco bell.


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## Chiduce (Jun 21, 2002)

I feel that without the spiritual relationship within the martial way of the art's practitioner, is like having fllowery hands and brocade legs. On the surface for a short while their respective way will work. Yet as the practitioner continues his/her martial arts journey; the levels of advanced martial skill will not be attainable unless the spiritual side of the art is understood! The guy or gal that lays his/her throat down on the freshly sharpened edge of any sword, clearly demonstrates both the physical and mental aspects of spirituality within the path of the martial way. The ability of a 60 year old karateka to take on multiple attackers, or produce a full eagle advanced split are other profoundities within the existence of the practitioner's spirituality! Martial spirituality, reveals martial wisdom, which inturn reveals advanced martial skill! :asian: Ami Tou Fou! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


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## LanceWildcat1 (Jun 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bushido _
> *Do you "practice" the spiritual dimention of martial arts? I said "practice"...living it...experiencing it, throught your training and daily life. Some people are afraid of the word "spirituality", they sometimes accociate it with mystic, rituals, or paranormal so replace it by "self-discovery", "self-analysis", "conciousness".
> So, tell me...
> -Bushido *


Yes, I try to practice the old 'Code of Bushido'.  I also feel that meditation before and after practice is beneficial to allow the mind to prepare for(before) and reflect on(after) your training.  I think that being consciously aware of what you are doing and what other's around you are doing is helpful.  And, a little self-analysis never hurt anyone. 
:soapbox:


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## theneuhauser (Jun 28, 2002)

its funny talking about spirituality.
thats an obscure term. we need a defenition


> spir·i·tu·al·i·ty   Pronunciation Key  (spr-ch-l-t)





> The state, quality, manner, or fact of being spiritual.





> The clergy.





> Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural.



thats from the heritage dictionary online www.dictionary.com


if we approach the concept from the first defenition, than we need another one...



> spir·i·tu·al   Pronunciation Key  (spr-ch-l)





> Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.





> Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.





> Of, from, or relating to God; deific.





> Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.





> Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.




my conclusion: do good deeds and your soul is happy and god will like you and the church too and you are practicing spirituality.


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 28, 2002)

Hi Everyone,

I sometimes have the class concentrate and meditate at the end of the class. This is to calm them down and relax them before they leave.

Now for myself, when I am practicing and teaching multiple times a week, I seem to be happier and less stressed. When it works, it is like going with the flow of life. Now this is my own approach and this does not mean it is for everyone.

As for the practicing, after 2nd and 3rd black belt, I have four ranks in black and I still practice and take private lessons every week. I also realize that not everyone is up for this also. 

As in my general approach to life, I do my thing, you do your thing, and just do not require me to do yours and we all can get a long. 

Have a nice day

Rich


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## Bushido (Jun 29, 2002)

Wow, spirituality is not a "hot" topic here! lol
Abyway, to me it is really important, it should be an essentiel part of martial arts, no matter what form they take.

-Bushido


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## theneuhauser (Jun 29, 2002)

well, if spirituality, is simply the quality of being spiritual, then it is really up to each one of us to define our own practices as spiritual or not. by defenition, it is the nature of spirit, or supernatural, or less applicably in this context it relates to god or the church.
would you say that what you consider spirituality to be relative to the intangible, supernatural or invisible? probably, for the most part we would say no. 
i guess its more of a question of what we define as our own spirituality 

deep meditation for a tibetan monk is probably spiritual,
for someone like john muir, a walk in the woods was most likely spiritual also.
martha stewart seems to be spiritually involved in arts and crafts. 
 

personally i find that chi development is highly spiritual for me in that respect, but others may say that it is simply relaxation and breath.

what do you do that is spiritual? if it walks the line to the edge of the unknown regions of the mind or equally, self, then you must be there. but even more simply, just to experience life itself. 
:asian: 

im sure that there are some really good zen koans for this, but i just dont know any of them!


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## Bushido (Jun 29, 2002)

To me, trying to become a better human being is spirituality. No rituals, no church involved. I try to your on my ego, to understand my fears and emotions, to have goods toughts. The key so to know yourself. Eh...I know, it is VERY difficult to completely know ourself, but at least trying as much we can. To me, spirituality is somehow close to psychology. It is important to understand the root of our behaviors.

Of course it is alot more that that, but very hard to describe (imagine, I started this tread and i'm having trouble to put words on my toughts! lol)

-Bushido


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## theneuhauser (Jun 29, 2002)

> To me, spirituality is somehow close to psychology. It is important to understand the root of our behaviors.


while psychology focuses on the roots, spirituality is more weighted towards the consequences. (cause and effect)


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## arnisador (Aug 28, 2003)

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-


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