# Man Shot By Police; Had Fake Gun



## MJS (Jul 9, 2012)

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-though-family-told-911-his-gun-was-fake?lite



> Investigators are trying to determine why Broomfield, Colo., police shot and killed a mentally distraught man even though his family told 911 dispatchers he was carrying a gun that shoots plastic pellets, not a real gun.
> An independent interagency review team was looking into the circumstances surrounding the June 28 shooting of 21-year-old Kyle Miller. The team will present its findings to the Adams and Broomfield County District Attorneys Office, which will decide whether charges should be filed against police.
> Its not real, the victims brother, Alex Miller, is heard telling the dispatcher on the 911 recording.



Thoughts?


----------



## geezer (Jul 9, 2012)

If the officers arriving at the scene did not know that it was a fake gun, and they felt that their lives or those of others were threatened, then I cannot fault them for responding to the perceived deadly force they were facing. 

If the dispatcher failed to inform the officers clearly and repeatedly that it was reported to be an "air-soft" soft-pellet pistol then she is definitely at fault. If she _did_ inform the officers of this, then _they_ have some serious explaining to do. 

Either way, there will certainly be a lawsuit over this, probably resulting in a big settlement for the victim's family, and regardless of who is at fault, the dispatcher and officers better belong to a strong union and get good legal advice because in any large organization sheist rolls down hill.


----------



## Tgace (Jul 9, 2012)

Just because the dispatcher was told it was a fake gun does not automatically mean the officer on the scene was told...

How many people are willing to go on the word of a family member that the gun was fake?

More detail required.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## MJS (Jul 9, 2012)

I agree with both of you and was thinking the same thing.  I'd like to think that info. wasn't withheld, but one can't take the chances.  Here's a good example:
http://www.newingtonct.gov/content/78/118/140/1602/default.aspx

Did this guys wife really not think there were any weapons in the home or did she just say that?


----------



## Tgace (Jul 9, 2012)

MJS said:


> I agree with both of you and was thinking the same thing.  I'd like to think that info. wasn't withheld, but one can't take the chances.  Here's a good example:
> http://www.newingtonct.gov/content/78/118/140/1602/default.aspx
> 
> Did this guys wife really not think there were any weapons in the home or did she just say that?



I went to the FBI National Academy with an officer who was at this one...tragedy.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 9, 2012)

The first rule is go home at the end of the day. I don't care who is saying it's a fake or toy -- unless I know for certain, it will be assumed to be real. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Haakon (Jul 9, 2012)

If the dispatchers told the officers it was fake, it still comes down to if they can afford to believe this second, or third, hand information vs what they see on the scene. If it looks like a real gun and the suspect is acting like it's a real gun then they would be justified in shooting.


----------



## MJS (Jul 10, 2012)

Haakon said:


> If the dispatchers told the officers it was fake, it still comes down to if they can afford to believe this second, or third, hand information vs what they see on the scene. If it looks like a real gun and the suspect is acting like it's a real gun then they would be justified in shooting.



Exactly!  Nowadays, there're so many fake guns out there, unless you're physically holding it in your hands, looking at it up close, it's next to impossible to tell whether its real or not.


----------



## Bill Mattocks (Jul 10, 2012)

I've never had this happen.  But I have had friends and family assure me that Johnny would NEVER actually hurt anyone with that [insert name of weapon here] he is carrying and presently menacing others with.  OK, I'm sure they believe that.  I'm not going to ask an officer to stake his life on it.

Same for statements that the weapon is fake.

If I am not mistaken, Airsoft and other 'fake' guns are sold with bright orange tips to distinguish them from 'real' weapons.  Some people remove the tips, because it makes them look less 'real'.  When a weapon looks real, the police must assume it is real.  I'm sorry that the man was killed.  I am not certain the police had a realistic choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft#Orange-tipped_airsoft_gun_muzzles


----------



## Master Dan (Jul 10, 2012)

Two senarios here, Last week in Anchorage the PD shot and killed a guy with a bb gun pistol they knew it was a bb gun pistol and the public relations officer said the police considered that to be a serious threat. If I remeber right this was a suicide by cop situation.

Previously our state troopers were sent to transport a man from a village mental patient they had dealt with before he was highly agitated barracaded in his house with gun. The trooper showe up on snow machine right up to the house with a mental health person on back the man came out with rifle and the trooper had to shoot and kill him to protect the passenger. Of course native family crys foul but both were at fault.

First the trooper should have confirmed the situation before approaching the house they could have had a long stand off with negotiators councelors.

Second the famly/mother who made the original request to the troopers caused him to be agressive by taunting her son that the troopers were comming so everyone in situations has some responsibilty.


----------



## jks9199 (Jul 10, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> If I am not mistaken, Airsoft and other 'fake' guns are sold with bright orange tips to distinguish them from 'real' weapons.  Some people remove the tips, because it makes them look less 'real'.  When a weapon looks real, the police must assume it is real.  I'm sorry that the man was killed.  I am not certain the police had a realistic choice.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft#Orange-tipped_airsoft_gun_muzzles



While toy guns are required to be sold with orange muzzles, the orange tip can be taken off.  Of greater concern, there have been documented instances of criminals and gang members painting the front of a real gun's muzzle orange, hoping to slow a cop's reaction.

If it looks like a gun, and you don't comply with my commands, I'm going to assume it's real.  And if you point it at me -- I'm going to shoot you.  Because I WILL go home to my family, and I'm not going to risk leaving my son fatherless over "it may not be real."


----------

