# Tai chi as a base art



## bMunky (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, I'll be taking four styles of martial arts next semester. Different styles that I think will suit me best. I've been in jujitsu for awhile now but the kind of jujitsu I learn kinda needs a base art, and I was just wondering how yang style tai chi quan could be used for stances like how a boxer or kung fu fighter has, because my jujitsu doesnt teach you how to stand or anything just teaches applicassions she teaches the way wally jay taught her and how they taught together for 26 years they didnt teach any striking or stuff like that just all jujitsu as in joint locks, leverage, throws, submitions and pins. I'm gonna be taking tae kwon do cause I have a bad hand and cant punch to good so kicking would be useful and also be taking aikido on the weekends with tai chi (it's tai chi then aikido, my sensei taches it). Because I really plan on practicing tai chi a lot for health and strength reasons but I also hear there's lots of combat applications in yang tai chi chuan. Sorry, I'm a tai chi newbie or martial art newbie I dont know to much except for danzan ryu  jujitsu.


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## mwelch (Dec 7, 2005)

Everything depends on the teacher.  With all MA, but especaillyt the so-called "internal arts" there is a tremendous amount of nonsense out there.  New age horse hockey.  The guy needs to be able to fight.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 7, 2005)

OK, I think a little honesty is in order here.  If I understand it, you have had a few months of jujitsu, and no other martial arts training.  If you try to train in four different martial arts at this point, then you will be lousy in all four.  You are a beginner, and you have not yet built a strong base of any kind.

You need to build a strong base in ONE, before you begin cross training.  Get this notion out of your head about being "complete".  All arts have something to offer, but all arts also have deficiencies.  Doesn't matter.  Pick one, and dedicate yourself to it for several years.  Once you have a solid base, say brown belt level at the MINIMUM, then you can think about cross training in other systems that you find yourself interested in.  

You seem to have a lot of motivation.  You would be better off to focus that motivation on one system at a time.


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## 7starmantis (Dec 7, 2005)

Tai Chi is a great combat art if learned and practiced correctly. I would agree that trying to start off in 4 arts is a little much, but to each his own.

7sm


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## arnisador (Dec 7, 2005)

Four arts _is_ a lot.


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## BlackCatBonz (Dec 7, 2005)

i agree with everyone on this.
its important to actually learn one thing and understand it somewhat. otherwise you will have a bunch of confusing contradicting principles, that will have you questioning the efficacy of all 4 arts.


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## dmax999 (Dec 8, 2005)

Personal opinion here only...

Tai Chi without an excellent teacher is a complete waste of time, unless you are way out of shape or elderly and only want health aspects of it.  Not implying your Tai Chi teacher is bad, I couldn't possibly know.

This is just a warning.  It takes years, probably about 10 for most people, to get decent enough with Tai Chi to fight with it, unless you have an awsome teacher.  Time spent with a bad teacher does not count towards that 10, it is completely wasted and you will start completely over when you find a good teacher.

Now as for all those MAs.  Decide why you want to learn any MA (Examples: Full contact fighting, point sparring, self defense, forms, health, etc.)  Different MAs are really good at different things, but bad at others.  Ex. Tae Kwon Do is really good for point sparring, but horrible for no holds barred MMA matches.  Contemporary WuShu Kung-Fu is probably the best for forms competitions, but you won't be winning any full contact fights with it.  It would be better to decide what you want to accomplish and then pick the MA.  If you can state what you want to do on a post here I'm sure many people will give you suggestions on what they think is best.

Or... you can try all of them for a while and decide which ones you think are worth continuing.  You will learn a little about drastically different styles and be better informed.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 8, 2005)

N
Much of what anyone would want for self defence can be found in Tai Chi.  Hpwever as has been said befor you need an excellent teacher and years to get close to realy understanding the art and what can be done with it.


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## bMunky (Dec 8, 2005)

Yeah, I've onyl been in jujitsu for 6 months now, I dropped tae kwon do as I have heard bad things about the teacher that I HAVE to take because of time restrictions. But I really have more time then most normal people do, I have TONS AND TONS of energy, Iw ake up at the crack of dawn and go to bed everynight at like 3am. I have found that jujitsu training can barely fill half my time, we had 6 months for our first belt and sensei felt I was ready after 2 months, I have tons of energy, I can never sit still I'm liek an energizer bunny I just keep going and going. So now I'll just be taking judo and jujitsu as they complement eachother a lot, and tai chia nd aikido as there practicly apart of the same class as in right when tai chi is over we go straight into aikido. I figure this amount right here should keep me busy, I plan on taking these for the next 10 or more years till I feel accomplished in them and then go on to angola capoeira like I've always wanted to. Actually I just want to be really kick *** at fighting, I aint afraid to admit it, I'm in martial arts to learn to fight and health reasons, no other reasons than that besides maybe the respect I have for martial artist and martial arts in general.


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## TigerWoman (Dec 9, 2005)

I would like to find a good tai chi teacher too but for different reason than you.  I need a softer art.  Taekwondo is not all point sparring.  Actually we just do point sparring in tournaments, I think for safety reasons.  In class, we do continuous sparring, as hard as you want it.  As a white belt if you wanted to go hard though you would be paired with a black belt who you would have a hard time even touching.  If you choose to be more serious about technique than wild, you would be more evenly paired.  For the first three months though in Taekwondo, you learn the basic kicks, not to do them well, just do them as well as you can for that amount of time.  Mostly at that time it is about repetition, learning self-control, learning patience, learning respect, learning discipline.  And it is beginning training for the next four years to get to black belt.  Any discipline takes time.  Four is too many-pick one and put time and work into it.  TW


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## arnisador (Dec 9, 2005)

You can usually find someone teaching Tai Chi through the local senior center, but it will typically be more health-oriented and less martially-oriented than martial artists might desire.


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## fyn5000 (Dec 10, 2005)

Finding a good T'ai Chi Ch'uan teacher is difficult if you're looking to learn T'ai Chi Ch'uan as a Martial Art.  And finding a teacher who studied under a respected Master doesn't mean you will get the best instruction.  My first teacher was a student of William C.C. Chen and I was hoping to learn alot from him, but he really wasn't following Chen's practice of T'ai Chi Ch'uan.  We learned the form well enough, but his push hands instruction didn't have any resembalance to what Chen or one of Chen's other student's, Nathan Menaged, taught in their workshops.    And as for any Martial Art applications, he talked about it, did some slow demonstrations, but we didn't do any practice.  After 3 years I decided to move on even though I feel he is a good person and means well.  

I then started taking lessons from a new teacher who follows the Dong Family Style.  I went to a workshop put on by his Master, Alex Dong, and decided from that to try this style out.  Master Alex Dong's Grandfather and Great-Grandfather studied under Yang Cheng-Fu, then started teaching their own family members.  So far I am not disappointed.  I am really getting a workout during the class sessions and the teacher gives us alot of feedback.  I am working on their Family Slow Set form right now.  Sometime next year I hope to start learning the Fast Set form.  I will also be starting on push hands after I learn the Slow Set form.  Altogether there are 4 empty hand forms, 2 saber forms, and a sword form.

fyn


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## mwelch (Dec 10, 2005)

If one is really doing this work, learning this very complex stuff, then the only thing to compare it to is learning to play a musical instrument.  You can pick 2 or 3 chords and play on a very primitive, but maybe perfectly fine level for you.  But if your aspiration is to learn how to use something like Taiji Quan to develop fighting technique, that is more like learning to play the piano well enough to play something that sounds like Chopin.  That takes years of commitment and discipline.  This is why for every 20-30 people that show up for those first classes, only 1 or 2 stay.

Trying to learn multiple arts all at the same time sounds like a bridge too far.


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