# Why Filipino martial arts will get you killed in self defense



## Isaiah90 (Jul 29, 2018)

I explain why FMA will get you beaten or killed in self defense. 

*Wrong mindset *- FMA train for fights, not self defense. FMA were used during a time of war against the Spanish. The claims that FMA helped Filipinos defeat the Spanish during the Philippine revolution are exaggerated. If you study history, you'll see that guns ultimately helped the Filipinos win the war. 

*Unrealistic techniques *- In FMA, you'll hear alot of concepts like checking the hands and trapping or parrying then attacking. You might see them do something like this. 






The problem with that is knife fights are completely different from knife attacks. Knifemen usually ambush you. By the time you realize what happened, you would've been stabbed or slashed repeatedly. These are some clips of how real knife attacks go down. 






*No multiple attackers *- Other issue with FMA is there's no training to deal with multiple attackers. Doce Parres was attacked by a couple of knifemen. He stabbed two, but got hit from behind with a chair. His attacker took his knife and stabbed him repeatedly. Doce Parres disarmed him back and stabbed him back before passing out. He woke up in a morgue because people thought he was dead. What was his mistake? Lack of situational awareness. 






In conclusion, FMA is not ideal for self defense. It's going to get you beaten or killed most likely.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 29, 2018)

You realize this will get blocked almost immediately? And possibly get you banned?


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## Martial D (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I explain why FMA will get you beaten or killed in self defense.
> 
> *Wrong mindset *- FMA train for fights, not self defense. FMA were used during a time of war against the Spanish. The claims that FMA helped Filipinos defeat the Spanish during the Philippine revolution are exaggerated. If you study history, you'll see that guns ultimately helped the Filipinos win the war.
> 
> ...


So, in conclusion, the only way to defend yourself(without getting beaten or killed) is to clumsilly jerk your body around while almost falling over throwing structurally terrible punches that wouldn't make a housecat flinch, like you show in your video right?

I get it, laughter can disarm hostility. Brilliant.


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## Danny T (Jul 29, 2018)

Have you been in a knife attack?

Your opinions are false on many levels.


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

Is this clown for real or what? Come on admins this guy has made multiple threads style bashing what's it going to get him out of here.


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Is this clown for real or what? Come on admins this guy has made multiple threads style bashing what's it going to get him out of here.



But he's so funny.

Someone who has never actually done anything remotely like fighting or defending but had watched a few videos and been able to identify weak points in every art, and hence created his own non-style that can defeat anything (and teaches it to others).

It's like master Ken, but not satirical and with no actual skill of any sort.

I personally can't wait for his "enter the modern self defence school" series, it'll be ace.


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

pdg said:


> But he's so funny.
> 
> Someone who has never actually done anything remotely like fighting or defending but had watched a few videos and been able to identify weak points in every art, and hence created his own non-style that can defeat anything (and teaches it to others).
> 
> ...


If he was just talking this crap online i wouldn't care and would find it funny but problem is he's selling this bs to people who are believing it and genuinely putting lives in danger


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> If he was just talking this crap online i wouldn't care and would find it funny but problem is he's selling this bs to people who are believing it and genuinely putting lives in danger



Here's a conflicting theory for you...

He went to a modern self defence school, and got kicked out for being a complete tit who thought he knew everything.

So, he devised a cunning plan to pretend it was his school, spreading rubbish about the philosophy of said school in order to severely damage it's reputation.

I mean who, even with no prior experience, would see him move and think "yeah, that guy's my new role model, I want to be like him"?


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

pdg said:


> Here's a conflicting theory for you...
> 
> He went to a modern self defence school, and got kicked out for being a complete tit who thought he knew everything.
> 
> ...


Sadly it happens more often than you'd think...on his videos he's had a couple comments saying how impressive he looked...I mean I guess it could be his mother saying that though


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I mean I guess it could be his mother saying that though



Hardly likely to be his girlfriend is it...


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

well @Isaiah90 i have now reported you for style bashing you probably won't be here much longer and if I were you I'd shut your little school before you get someone hurt and they sue you


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## jks9199 (Jul 29, 2018)

So, Isaiah90... you're running on and on about why one style or another is no good for self defense.  What IS good for self defense?  Oh, your online school?  Yeah, not so sure about that.  See, you lack credentials to establish any credibility.  I'm a cop for near on 20 years.  I've spent more than 30 years training, systematically and consistently in one martial style, as well as exposing myself to others to varying degrees.  I've spent a fair amount of time researching violent attacks, and especially how police officers are attacked and defend themselves, or take people into custody.  I've also spent a not-inconsequential time learning how people respond under the particular stress of violence, stress in general, and how conflict comes about.  And, with all that, I only claim to understand about 1 slice of the pizza that is "self defense."  Because things can be very, very different if you go to a different city, a different neighborhood, and even more so in different countries.

So, maybe you can establish some bonafides before you spout off?  Just maybe?


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## JR 137 (Jul 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> If he was just talking this crap online i wouldn't care and would find it funny but problem is he's selling this bs to people who are believing it and genuinely putting lives in danger


A couple counterpoints...

1. The people following him are probably just as clueless as he is, and wouldn’t go to an actual dojo teaching anything realistic anyway.  I’d wager they’re the type of people who wouldn’t go to a proven and reknowned dojo if it was next door and free.

2. I highly doubt any of them have been in an actual fight and would ever be in one.  Not that there’s ANYTHING wrong with that, but anyone who’s ever been in any type of physical confrontation should/would easily see through this crap.

3. Just because he says he has paying students doesn’t mean he actually does.  

4. Get comments in before it’s locked 

I agree with you though.


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## Martial D (Jul 29, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> So, Isaiah90... you're running on and on about why one style or another is no good for self defense.  What IS good for self defense?  Oh, your online school?  Yeah, not so sure about that.  See, you lack credentials to establish any credibility.  I'm a cop for near on 20 years.  I've spent more than 30 years training, systematically and consistently in one martial style, as well as exposing myself to others to varying degrees.  I've spent a fair amount of time researching violent attacks, and especially how police officers are attacked and defend themselves, or take people into custody.  I've also spent a not-inconsequential time learning how people respond under the particular stress of violence, stress in general, and how conflict comes about.  And, with all that, I only claim to understand about 1 slice of the pizza that is "self defense."  Because things can be very, very different if you go to a different city, a different neighborhood, and even more so in different countries.
> 
> So, maybe you can establish some bonafides before you spout off?  Just maybe?



No No No, you don't get it. You are thinking like a martial artist! Stop it.

You see, you be credentialed or qualified to teach, you would first need to learn a martial art right? BAM first mistake, now you have a style, which will get you killed!

The key is to try to learn as little as possible about anything, to empty yourself of all skills and techniques. This way, should you ever meet the dreaded 'attackers' that attack but don't fight(?), you will lurch around in an uncoordinated ballet of ineffectual clumsiness to such a degree that the 'attackers'(tm) will be incapacitated with laughter, allowing you to walk away from the encounter unharmed.

Are you getting it yet?


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Anyone else think "level 1 hurticane learned from video"?


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## frank raud (Jul 29, 2018)

Doce Pares (note how to spell it rightly) translates as twelves pairs or twelve equals. It is a style of FMA, not a person's name.  The depth of research is mind bottling.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 29, 2018)

I mean, hes not entirely wrong here, but these are common complaints i have seen for it.    But im pretty sure most work in the Philipines and i belie some styles do in fact address muiltiple oppoinents  but beore i get into a tangent about it, i found this.

Juramentado - Wikipedia  Not too sure o the autenticit or scale, but if you didnt kno about it have fun reading it.      Cant deny its intresting no matter what.   Just seemed like a good thread to bring it to peoples attention. 


Oh before i forget, the Philipines were occupied by Spain, the U.S and Japan, all of whome had a resistance movement against them   given the nature of said fighting its fair to say they would do a air amount of ambushing enemy forces.   I am by no means a expert, but you missed out two significant occupations. 

(excuse spelling now on a old laptop and its keyboard is busted, funnil enough its the f key mainly)


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## jks9199 (Jul 29, 2018)

The complaints are all things about particular training, not really the style...  which is what he doesn't understand.  People training FMA for self-defense don't do things the exact same way that those simply training for fun do.  Sub any other art you want to for FMA.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 29, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> The complaints are all things about particular training, not really the style...  which is what he doesn't understand.  People training FMA for self-defense don't do things the exact same way that those simply training for fun do.  Sub any other art you want to for FMA.



ok well if you can show me a FMA school that trains differently than the others for self defense, that'd be great.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 29, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> The complaints are all things about particular training, not really the style...  which is what he doesn't understand.  People training FMA for self-defense don't do things the exact same way that those simply training for fun do.  Sub any other art you want to for FMA.



Fair enough, i dont overly agree with it.

Something i was going to edit into my original post:     Doesnt this mean the OP has to confess that one+ style(s) wont get you killed given the japanese had a bayont fighting style (forget the name but this is what i imagine most soldiers were taught at least for aggresion or spare time ater training), that they could know and any one of the styles taught in Japanese territory.    So if FMA doest work in the Japanese occupation then X Japanese style(s) should. 

edit:  Pretty sure this can be used to apply to Spanish and U.S fighting styles as well.


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## jks9199 (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> ok well if you can show me a FMA school that trains differently than the others for self defense, that'd be great.


There are several folks around MT alone who train FMA among others with an eye towards self defense...  Again, it's not the style, but the focus and training approach that matters.  Even the exercises can be the same... if the purpose is understood.  There was an enormous reaction to a video of Bobbe Edmonds demonstrating an exercise a few months ago.  For those who understood the exercise, and saw what was happening, it was scary and effective.  Those who didn't get that?  Well, it looks silly.  Those tap-a-tap drills that FMA folks do?  They aren't intended to be used directly in a fight... but to develop certain skills.

Here's my simple problem with everything I've seen you post.  You're flogging dead horses, without showing any understanding of what you're talking about.  You barely see the surface, and figure that what you see is all there is...   and yet you feel that people should flock to your blog.


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> ok well if you can show me a FMA school that trains differently than the others for self defense, that'd be great.


Well if you could show us you actually know.....well anything that'd be great


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> ok well if you can show me a FMA school that trains differently than the others for self defense, that'd be great.



Why?

You profess to know everything about every art, even though you've been proved wrong on every single point you've ever made...

Anything anyone says is only going to be ignored.

Might as well just...


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

So, once upon a time there was a guy who watched a few videos and came up with a story about training for 8 or 5 years and how he developed his own ultimate self defence non-style.

And when he told everyone he was all like






And everyone was like






And he was like






And we were all






And then one person in the corner was like






And we were all






So he said






And we all agreed






And OP was






Repeat as necessary.


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## Tez3 (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Doce Parres was attacked by a couple of knifemen. He stabbed two, but got hit from behind with a chair. His attacker took his knife and stabbed him repeatedly. Doce Parres disarmed him back and stabbed him back before passing out. He woke up in a morgue because people thought he was dead. What was his mistake? Lack of situational awareness.



Er what? You, mate, are having a giraffe.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 29, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> There are several folks around MT alone who train FMA among others with an eye towards self defense...  Again, it's not the style, but the focus and training approach that matters.  Even the exercises can be the same... if the purpose is understood.  There was an enormous reaction to a video of Bobbe Edmonds demonstrating an exercise a few months ago.  For those who understood the exercise, and saw what was happening, it was scary and effective.  Those who didn't get that?  Well, it looks silly.  Those tap-a-tap drills that FMA folks do?  They aren't intended to be used directly in a fight... but to develop certain skills.
> 
> Here's my simple problem with everything I've seen you post.  You're flogging dead horses, without showing any understanding of what you're talking about.  You barely see the surface, and figure that what you see is all there is...   and yet you feel that people should flock to your blog.



I keep hearing people say that what they do is just training drills, but hardly anyone can demonstrate it work in full-contact sparring without a script. 

If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?



Up to a point it's the training.

But it must be good training done well.

Not your abortive mishmash of inconsequential crap.


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I keep hearing people say that what they do is just training drills, but hardly anyone can demonstrate it work in full-contact sparring without a script.
> 
> If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?


Yep training....training which you have none of...honestly I feel sorry for you...that your life is that sad and empty you have to make all this stuff up


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## jks9199 (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I keep hearing people say that what they do is just training drills, but hardly anyone can demonstrate it work in full-contact sparring without a script.


What is the difference between sparring and an assault?



> If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?



A style is few things.  It's a structure for training.  It's a set of principles and methods both to train and to develop the tools/body weapons that you will use.  It's a set of strategies and tactics.  It's a way to pass on and communicate what worked before to those who come after you, so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel completely.  Properly taught, over time, the style "disappears" into the practitioner's movements and responses.

Teaching self defense isn't teaching a style.  It's teaching a wide set of tools that may or may not be chosen from one or several martial arts.  Those tools should include recognizing danger, evading and deescalating, physical tactics or techniques to protect yourself with minimized risk of being injured yourself, and how to handle the legal and psychological/emotional aftermath.  And probably more stuff I haven't listed.  (Rory Miller has listed 7 elements, as I recall, for just one example of someone else's opinion.)  There's a reason that we don't teach cops a "martial art"; we teach them Defensive/Control Tactics that are designed to be learned quickly, retained easily, and used effectively under pressure with little reinforcement or ongoing practice while still adhering to legal requirements and liabilities.


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## Danny T (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I explain why FMA will get you beaten or killed in self defense.
> 
> *Wrong mindset *- FMA train for fights, not self defense. FMA were used during a time of war against the Spanish. The claims that FMA helped Filipinos defeat the Spanish during the Philippine revolution are exaggerated. If you study history, you'll see that guns ultimately helped the Filipinos win the war.
> 
> ...


Per your own words:
"I suppose this could work in some situations but I don’t see it happening in every situation."
Do you honestly believe that there is something that works every time in every situation?

You talk about not seeing something as having been done so that is to be discounted.
Therefore by your own words we are to discount what you have stated for you haven't shown anything you do that works every time in every situation.

Situation awareness is very important. But just because one is aware that alone doesn't prevent one from taking damage.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I explain why FMA will get you beaten or killed in self defense.
> 
> *Wrong mindset *- FMA train for fights, not self defense. FMA were used during a time of war against the Spanish. The claims that FMA helped Filipinos defeat the Spanish during the Philippine revolution are exaggerated. If you study history, you'll see that guns ultimately helped the Filipinos win the war.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you got around to posting another one of these. I missed them. Your arguments are all over the place, and not once have you proposed how any of these issues can actually be addressed.


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## Martial D (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I keep hearing people say that what they do is just training drills, but hardly anyone can demonstrate it work in full-contact sparring without a script.
> 
> If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?



Dude, we've all seen how you move from your videos, and what you know from your posts.

We all heard you huffing and puffing after 30 seconds of lurching around in front of the camera like you were in the later stages of ALS in your 'shadowboxing' video, and watched your man boobs bounce while getting shot with Nerf darts.

We've seen you talk about training in WC but not knowing any of the basic terminology or theory, and how you taught yourself jkd.(lol) Everyone here knows you are a liar and a fraud, with no skills at all and too out of shape to go more than a few seconds in real life. My grandmother could beat you up.

But yet here you are, taking yourself completely seriously. It boggles the mind.


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## Anarax (Jul 29, 2018)

You have already made up your mind and are so deeply embedded into your delusional world. Trying to convince you would be a complete waste of time. *However*, I'm clarifying a few things in case others who aren't familiar with FMA will not be deterred by your false statements about FMA. 



Isaiah90 said:


> *Wrong mindset *- FMA train for fights, not self defense. FMA were used during a time of war against the Spanish. The claims that FMA helped Filipinos defeat the Spanish during the Philippine revolution are exaggerated. If you study history, you'll see that guns ultimately helped the Filipinos win the war.


FMA focuses on drilling responses to various angles of attack regardless if it's an unarmed(grabs, punches, kicks, etc) or weapon attack(knife, stick, etc). That's why techniques in FMA are universal, meaning we apply the same concepts when defending against a knife or unarmed. This helps in covering more than one combative situation at a time because we are still moving like knife fighters even when it's not a knife fight.

Your premise of "Well the Filipinos had to use guns against their enemy who also had guns, thus FMA is useless", is filled with logical fallacies. You would probably be saying that FMA is useless if they lost the war. You seem to have you bases covered, you can't be wrong regardless.   



Isaiah90 said:


> In FMA, you'll hear alot of concepts like checking the hands and trapping or parrying then attacking. You might see them do something like this.


No, the concept is attacking you're opponent without getting stabbed to death. You have to deal your opponents weapon arm, that can be done by either disarming, controlling or revering the knife on them. If you are attacked with a knife and I focus on their non-weapon arm I'm going to get severely injured or more likely killed. That's why the parries, arm checks and de-fanging techniques are in there, you have to deal with the weapon first.



Isaiah90 said:


> The problem with that is knife fights are completely different from knife attacks. Knifemen usually ambush you. By the time you realize what happened, you would've been stabbed or slashed repeatedly. These are some clips of how real knife attacks go down.


"Knifeman" must still use knife attacks to inflict injury. There are plenty of instances where people have defended themselves against knife attackers. It's a disadvantageous position to be in to defend yourself against a knife-wielding opponent, but I rather know what to do if faced with one opposed have a self-defeating approach and never training it.    



Isaiah90 said:


> *No multiple attackers *- Other issue with FMA is there's no training to deal with multiple attackers. Doce Parres was attacked by a couple of knifemen. He stabbed two, but got hit from behind with a chair. His attacker took his knife and stabbed him repeatedly. Doce Parres disarmed him back and stabbed him back before passing out. He woke up in a morgue because people thought he was dead. What was his mistake? Lack of situational awareness.


You're completely wrong. FMA schools work multiple attacker drills as well as spar one-on-multiple. You clearly haven't done any research into this. *Doce Parres is a system of Kali, not a person*, thus I don't know what attack you're referring to.  



Isaiah90 said:


> In conclusion, FMA is not ideal for self defense. It's going to get you beaten or killed most likely.


No, standing around and pretending dodging a nerf gun dart is the same as a bullet from a firearm(on your YouTube channel) will get you killed. Waiving your arms around with no structure, speed nor power will get you killed(Your video). Teaching a self-defense class when you have no understanding of martial arts will get *OTHER PEOPLE KILLED.* I hope you don't actually teach self-defense. If you want to exist in your own little world of delusion then only include yourself in that world, don't invite other naive/inexperienced into it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

To the OP: @Isaiah90, I think you've got some learning to do. I've said before that I'd love to share ideas, and that's still open. This thread might end up getting you banned, so I'm dropping this in now. If you get in touch with me (either PM me with your contact info, or reach me through my website, from my signature), I'd be more than happy to get together. And if you find yourself in WNC, give me a yell and we can get some time on the mats.

I think you're headed in the wrong direction, but if you're honestly interested in learning and helping others learn, I'm more than happy to share whatever knowledge I have that might help. Just know that I'll be honest with you about what errors I see in your thinking, and would expect you do to the same with mine. And if we get time on the mats, I'll share any technical knowledge that might be useful, with the same caveat.


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## Headhunter (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> To the OP: @Isaiah90, I think you've got some learning to do. I've said before that I'd love to share ideas, and that's still open. This thread might end up getting you banned, so I'm dropping this in now. If you get in touch with me (either PM me with your contact info, or reach me through my website, from my signature), I'd be more than happy to get together. And if you find yourself in WNC, give me a yell and we can get some time on the mats.
> 
> I think you're headed in the wrong direction, but if you're honestly interested in learning and helping others learn, I'm more than happy to share whatever knowledge I have that might help. Just know that I'll be honest with you about what errors I see in your thinking, and would expect you do to the same with mine. And if we get time on the mats, I'll share any technical knowledge that might be useful, with the same caveat.


He's not interested in learning he doesn't listen to anything. He thinks he knows everything. Don't waste your time or energy on him


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## now disabled (Jul 29, 2018)

jks9199 said:


> Here's my simple problem with everything I've seen you post. You're flogging dead horses, without showing any understanding of what you're talking about. You barely see the surface, and figure that what you see is all there is... and yet you feel that people should flock to your blog.



I think your wasting your time and effort. It don't seem to sink in what any of the guys who do know have said 

sorry if that offends I am just stunned that a person can dump on things without any insight and post vids that do not exactly show anything effective (ops own vids) and  ............well I ain't saying it or I'll get banned


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I keep hearing people say that what they do is just training drills, but hardly anyone can demonstrate it work in full-contact sparring without a script.
> 
> If it's not the style, let's throw out all styles. They don't matter. After all, it's the training right?


That's an entirely different argument, and there's actually some truth to it. Change the training of an effective style, and you can render it ineffective for any chosen context. Any style with reasonable tools can be taught for effective use, and most can also be taught for flash and demo fun.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 29, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> He's not interested in learning he doesn't listen to anything. He thinks he knows everything. Don't waste your time or energy on him


If he takes me up on it, it means he's willing to learn from someone who doesn't agree with him, which means there's actually a chance for him to learn. I don't expect he'll ever take me up on it.


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## pdg (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If he takes me up on it, it means he's willing to learn from someone who doesn't agree with him, which means there's actually a chance for him to learn. I don't expect he'll ever take me up on it.



If he does, please oh please video it.


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## now disabled (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> If he takes me up on it, it means he's willing to learn from someone who doesn't agree with him, which means there's actually a chance for him to learn. I don't expect he'll ever take me up on it.



If he does then credit to him

As well as working on the techs you might want to give him a few lessons on interpersonal skills ie ....slanging of established arts is not professional and not in any way a good business practice, especially if you can't actually do the techs you slanging

Oh and not to go posting vids of things that either don't work or make him look a .......


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 29, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> To the OP: @Isaiah90, I think you've got some learning to do. I've said before that I'd love to share ideas, and that's still open. This thread might end up getting you banned, so I'm dropping this in now. If you get in touch with me (either PM me with your contact info, or reach me through my website, from my signature), I'd be more than happy to get together. And if you find yourself in WNC, give me a yell and we can get some time on the mats.
> 
> I think you're headed in the wrong direction, but if you're honestly interested in learning and helping others learn, I'm more than happy to share whatever knowledge I have that might help. Just know that I'll be honest with you about what errors I see in your thinking, and would expect you do to the same with mine. And if we get time on the mats, I'll share any technical knowledge that might be useful, with the same caveat.



Check my video.


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## now disabled (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Check my video.




Dude you can't go slanging arts of when you yourself are not that skilled .....yes give a view but not like how you are and when guys that do know ask you straight questions you either don't answer or evade or post a monologue


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 29, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Check my video.


He's not asking for any sort of challenge match though...he's asking to share ideas and learn from each other. That doesn't automatically mean a challenge, or any sort of confrontation at all.

For instance, I'd love to meet with him, and grapple with him. It wouldn't be a challenge match because I'm certain he could kick my a**. But that's how people learn. No need for it to be confrontational, or one of us trying to prove the other wrong, at all.


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## jks9199 (Jul 29, 2018)

Thread locked.  See Rule 1.8.

jks9199
MT Administrator


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