# Keeping a reasonably peaceful TKD area.



## Bob Hubbard (Nov 10, 2009)

The TKD section is one of our busiest ones.  It's logical that given the traffic that there will be more chances for misunderstanding and heat.

It's not our staffs goal, not job to micromanage you, or be e-babysitters.  We feel that adults should act like adults and to us that means in a mature manner.  

While our rules set is large on first glance, most of what 95% of our members need to follow is summed up in opening of our rules, Section 1.1.
*Terms of Service
*

As in any popular art, TKD has it's fair share of politics, competing organizations, and colorful personalities.  It is our official position that none of these are superior to the others, and we favor no position over any other.  All members are subject to the rules equally, regardless of rank, affiliation or membership level. A 10th degree doesn't get you a "get out of jail card" and neither does a paid membership. A Grandmaster can be banned just as easily and fast as a white belt if they break our rules.

When you see a problem, please use the proper channels to inform us. That is detailed in Section 5.3 of our rules.


Continued violations, abuse directed towards our staff, a hostile attitude, or daring us to ban you can, may, and has result in just that.  Do not draw negative action towards you by daring us to do so.


We are not asking that everyone agree, stick to 'safe' topics, or hold hands and sing campfire songs. That would lead to a boring forum.  We are insisting however that members behave as responsible adults, follow our rules, and when told "hey, might want to relax a bit" not make a mountain out of a anthill.

Enjoy the TKD section, it's there for you our TKD members.  We are open to suggestion on how to improve it to give you a better experience. Help us, to help you.

Thank you.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 10, 2009)

I want to address one particular issue that has been brought up a few times, favoritism.

We do everything we can to avoid any show of favoritism OR bias.

Moderators are by policy prevented from moderating friends, family, classmates, students, their instructor, or others where there is a risk of bias coloring a decision.

Moderators are allowed to "opt out" when there is a case where they feel they can't be fair and objective.

Moderators are not allowed to moderate in a topic where they have been participating as a member.  In a few rare events, they may be called upon to place an official notice (so indicated).

Staff is not given a "free pass". Current and former staff have received warnings, infractions, suspensions and banning when warranted. Staff have been dismissed for their conduct as well.

Paying members are held to the same standards as non-paying members. They have been warned, infracted, suspended and banned.  

My instructor has been suspended. -I- have been suspended. At least 1 of our Advisors has been suspended. We do not play favorites.

It is not our policy to publicly single out people. Actions that we take are between us and the member. Just because you do not see the warnings or infractions, doesn't mean they aren't there. We feel that singling someone out for public censor & ridicule does little but create bad feelings and open the door to even more problems. Our goal is to resolve things professionally.

If you see a member with "Suspended", they've been suspended. 
"Banned" means banned. 
"Restricted Access" means they have enough infraction points to seriously limit their use of the site. 
"Seeking Tranquility" means they've been such a huge pain in the *** we no longer want them here.  Unlike banned members, there is a chance they can return, however unlikely.

Disrupting threads, constantly complaining about non-existent biases, going on and on how we don't do nothing, how certain people get away with murder, going to other sites and whining about things, are all ways to fast track yourself off this site.

We give people more than enough chances, some say too many to figure it all out. 
We provide you with the option to block or "ignore" the people who piss you off.  Please use it, or learn to tune them out.
Report problems then let us handle it. Firing back, only brings you into the fray. 

Nothing would please us more than to see every section of this site thriving, growing, with tons of new discussion. We need your help to do that, and we need your help and cooperation to achieve that.

If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions, please, contact any member of our staff, our mentors, our advisers or me directly.  

Thank you.


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## terryl965 (Nov 10, 2009)

Yes even I have been suspended for what I have no clue :uhyeah:, but even I will say that life is too short to get upset over a post. Thanks for all the mods and everybody does for this wonderful site.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Nov 11, 2009)

Thank you for addressing this Bob!

It is appreciated greatly.  

Daniel


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## shesulsa (Nov 12, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Thank you for addressing this Bob!
> 
> It is appreciated greatly.
> 
> Daniel



What he said.


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## jks9199 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hey, everybody!  Remember this thread?

MartialTalk is supposed to be a friendly place.  I know that some TKD issues get pretty heated, especially the sport vs MA/self defense stuff.  Believe it or not -- it is possible to discuss a hot subject without namecalling and insults or being demeaning to the folks with another point of view.  Let's give it a try, huh?


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## jks9199 (Nov 15, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Hey, everybody!  Remember this thread?
> 
> MartialTalk is supposed to be a friendly place.  I know that some TKD issues get pretty heated, especially the sport vs MA/self defense stuff.  Believe it or not -- it is possible to discuss a hot subject without namecalling and insults or being demeaning to the folks with another point of view.  Let's give it a try, huh?


One more thing...

If there's someone whose opinions and manner of posting are so odious to you that you're tempted to do something that might violate the rules... Add the guy to your ignore list.  You can find it in your User CP.


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## MBuzzy (Nov 15, 2009)

And one of the worst things that you can do is to report something, then fire back at the person who you just reported, in the thread.  If you feel that a rule has been broken, don't drag yourself down and don't drag yourself into it.  Report it, ignore it, move on, and let the moderators do their job.  We will review the report, compare it against the terms of service and take action as necessary.

Just remember, you won't see what action has been taken, so there is a degree of trust here for us to do our job.  As Bob said, we do not make our administrative actions public.


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## Tames D (Nov 15, 2009)

MBuzzy said:


> Just remember, you won't see what action has been taken, so there is a degree of trust here for us to do our job. As Bob said, we do not make our administrative actions public.


 
I always felt that disciplinary action should be on public record. At least for supporting members to review.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 15, 2009)

We've thought about it, but to be fair we'd have to wipe out alot and start fresh, which would make our jobs harder.


A point I feel needs to be made.  Our official charter is"Friendly Martial Arts Discussion." While it is our goal to be such, we are not going to be the "Behavior Police" and smack everyone who doesn't say "please" and "thank you", or who comes across a little rougher than we'd like.  We are dealing with a number of cultural differences, even within the US and attempt to take those into consideration when moderating. That's not a license to pretend you're from the Bronx though as we do pick up on acts and infract accordingly.  

If someone is on your "troll" list, put them on your Ignore list.  If enough people do that, they will find they get no reaction and fade away. Trolls biggest kick is to get under your skin. Ignore them, report them, but do not engage them.


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## jks9199 (Nov 15, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> If someone is on your "troll" list, put them on your Ignore list.  If enough people do that, they will find they get no reaction and fade away. Trolls biggest kick is to get under your skin. Ignore them, report them, but do not engage them.



Quoted for truth -- and it bears repeating.

Ignore the trolls; they'll usually go away.

I'll tell you this -- the MT Moderation Team takes all reports and all disruptions seriously.  But we're not nannies.  Just like some bruises come with martial arts training -- there's a possibility of bruised feelings and injured sensibilities when you participate on a forum.


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## Twin Fist (Nov 16, 2009)

i would support different sections for sport TKD and real TDK........:lfao:


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 16, 2009)

Dude, you keep pushing it and it's not going to matter for you.


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## Twin Fist (Nov 16, 2009)

oh come on, that was funny

ok, i am sorry, i was going for funny


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## Steve (Nov 16, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> oh come on, that was funny
> 
> ok, i am sorry, i was going for funny



I thought it was funny.


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## shesulsa (Nov 17, 2009)

Even if it was, it's an example of thumbing nose at staff given the purpose of the thread. Bob's being nice.


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## Steve (Nov 17, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Even if it was, it's an example of thumbing nose at staff given the purpose of the thread. Bob's being nice.


Is it?  I guess if it appears so to you, then it is.  I didn't see it that way.  I saw it as a possibly ill-timed attempt to diffuse a tense conversation.  I believe that a large part of why things get tense in the first place is when we take things too seriously (including ourselves) and forget our senses of humor.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 17, 2009)

Regarding the Ignore list, I've received a couple of inquiries that I'd like to address here in the interests of efficiency.

*"I can't find it"*
There are 2 ways to edit your ignore list.

1- View a persons profile. Under their profile picture (or off on the left side if they have none) you should see a drop down menu for "User Lists".  Select that and pick "Add to Ignore List".

2- Click on the USERCP menu link, select Edit Ignore List.  You can then add the persons username when prompted.

(Note- You cannot ignore a moderator.)


*"I added someone but I still see their comments in others posts when they are quoted."*
Unfortunately, this will happen. At the moment I'm unaware of a reliable plug in to make this 100%.  It isn't perfect but will allow you to avoid most of the objectionable persons posts. We hope that this system will be improved in upcoming software updates.


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## Twin Fist (Nov 17, 2009)

Bob,
thank you for your continued efforts on this front.


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## mastercole (Jun 9, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Bob,
> thank you for your continued efforts on this front.



Sure TWIN FIST, whatever you say. 

Is it OK to go troll the Taekwondo area now?

Originally Posted by Twin Fist  (in the Taekwondo area)
the instructor is an ***, and the entire KKW organization, BY ALLOWING IT, is just as guilty

lets put aside the made up history

lets put aside the political crap

lets put aside the things they allow to happen

it is just another org, and like all orgs, it is exists mainly to take money from people to make other people rich

*puke*


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## MJS (Jun 10, 2011)

mastercole said:


> Sure TWIN FIST, whatever you say.
> 
> Is it OK to go troll the Taekwondo area now?
> 
> ...


 
And you revive a 2yr old thread to take a personal shot?  Understand that everyone will share different opinions.  That being said, there is no need to follow someone around the forum, stalking them, to take personal shots.

If this thread is bound to be revived, keep it civil.  

MJS
MT Asst. Admin


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## andyjeffries (Jun 10, 2011)

MJS said:


> And you revive a 2yr old thread to take a personal shot?



While I'm not getting involved in the debate between mastercole and Twin Fist, I'd say that if this thread is a sticky thread then it's inherently always current and any reply in it isn't  reviving it, just continuing it...


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## Kong Soo Do (Jun 10, 2011)

If I could make an observation please;

Twin Fist is offering an opinion about a particular instructor who is not a member of this board, therefore he isn't attacking a fellow member.  He is also commenting on an organization, which of course isn't a member.  While that may chap the hide of members of that organization, I haven't seen where he's been proven wrong.  And again, it is his opinion.

Master Cole on the other hand did call TF ignorant on the open board.  That is attacking another member and would be better served in a PM or email.

Not taking sides, but we need to be clear about who may be complaining about who...and why.  If someone on the open board states that another member is a horses backside...then we have a problem.  But if someone is only stating an organization is doing this or that....well is it?  And how is that attacking someone here?  It isn't.


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## terryl965 (Jun 10, 2011)

Yes you are right TF has personally attack no member on this board, have you really been paying attention to what he says. Even though we are not the KKW and no one person is, we are all one organization under one banner to attack the org is attacking us.

Yet these same people that attack these org go out and get certified by instructors that certified childern as BB what is all that about? If you do not like the org than how can you be under and test by instructors that does the exact same thing?

Last thing to mention here TF himself teaches childern and he will most likely give a child a BB because if he does not his Master will do it so in essence he is doing the exact same thing as alot of folks are doing promoting kids and running a school. 

Peace for all of TKD is only a step away from the insult and take a moment to relize we are one and always have been.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 10, 2011)

no terry i am not, every one of my students knows there is no BB before 16 from me. And no Jr BB till 12. Period.

my instructor does it, doesnt mean i will.

never have and I never will so NO, i am not being a hypocrite.


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## Kong Soo Do (Jun 10, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> Yes you are right TF has personally attack no member on this board, have you really been paying attention to what he says.



Terry, yes sir I've noted what he's said.  Too be honest, he's simply voicing what a lot of people feel in a very direct way.  But is what he's saying wrong?  And if it is, then people should point that out.  If not...maybe they should consider what he's saying???


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## ETinCYQX (Jun 10, 2011)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Terry, yes sir I've noted what he's said.  Too be honest, he's simply voicing what a lot of people feel in a very direct way.  But is what he's saying wrong?  And if it is, then people should point that out.  If not...maybe they should consider what he's saying???



While I understand what you're saying and have no problem with TF's posts, I think part of the reason you're so forgiving is that you agree with him. Had I been as abrasive in your "sport vs traditional" debate, you probably wouldn't feel the same way. 

Just playing devil's advocate.


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## MJS (Jun 10, 2011)

andyjeffries said:


> While I'm not getting involved in the debate between mastercole and Twin Fist, I'd say that if this thread is a sticky thread then it's inherently always current and any reply in it isn't reviving it, just continuing it...


 
That is true.  My point was simply:  It appears to me and a few other mods, that certain members can't get along.  Thats fine, we understand and accept that.  But, if thats the case, theres no need to seek out a member and intentionally comment on something they said, just because the other person doesnt like them, which seems to be the case here.   There are options available for people to use, if they dont like other members.  Unfortunately, some choose not to use them.


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## terryl965 (Jun 10, 2011)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Terry, yes sir I've noted what he's said. Too be honest, he's simply voicing what a lot of people feel in a very direct way. But is what he's saying wrong? And if it is, then people should point that out. If not...maybe they should consider what he's saying???


 
KSD we have consider what he says, maybe he is just being very rude about it and since you happen to agree with him you do not mind. I have never said he is wrong what I say is by him being involved with instructors that does the same thing he is just like us in a indirect way. If I let a criminal stay at my house willingly and they catch him I maybe brought up on charges. I have done no crime but let someone stay at my house but yet guilt by association and harvaring a frugitive. 
When TF or any person for that matter speaks out against kids have a BB under a certain age but yet he continues to associate his own BB with them then he is doing the same exact thing. Action speak louder than words and when you say so and so is good enough for me to get another stripe on my belt, than in essence he is endorsing them giving out kiddiee BB's. This is just my opinion put a nickel with it and you still cannot get a cup of coffee.


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## terryl965 (Jun 10, 2011)

MJS said:


> That is true. My point was simply: It appears to me and a few other mods, that certain members can't get along. Thats fine, we understand and accept that. But, if thats the case, theres no need to seek out a member and intentionally comment on something they said, just because the other person doesnt like them, which seems to be the case here. There are options available for people to use, if they dont like other members. Unfortunately, some choose not to use them.


 
Good afternoon MJS you know I am just trying to make some people see my opinion whether or not they do is ok with me. I really enjoy a good debate, but I agree we need to be civil when dis-agreeing and hopefully I have. At anytime you or the mods believe I am attacking someone just let me know and I will adjust acoordingly.


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## terryl965 (Jun 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> no terry i am not, every one of my students knows there is no BB before 16 from me. And no Jr BB till 12. Period.
> 
> my instructor does it, doesnt mean i will.
> 
> never have and I never will so NO, i am not being a hypocrite.


 
But see TF in my opinion you are being an hypocrite, one of your seniors give away BB to childern, plain and simple. 

One of my seniors give away bb to childern, plain and simple.

We both have no control over what they do, we both decide to still keep those seniors even though we may not agree with every thing they do.

Your senior belongs to a group of other seniors and thus they have there little org.
My senior just happens to be one of leader of the biggest org the KKW. They both serve a purpose and both have flaws that is what is so great about it we can agree to dis-agree and still train together and have an intelligent converstration over what we both see has being not right with us. But we both know there is nothing we can do but keep in our safe haven and remember those days gone by.


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## granfire (Jun 10, 2011)

hehehehehehehe...if this keeps up, heads will roll just from this thread. :lol:


(Bob got suspended one time? Awesome! Did he pull the plug on himself?)


But in all seriousness, somebody keeps getting your goat, the ignore list is your friend. 
Lowers your blood pressure and increases you happiness (especially when you see them quoted responding to you) It's a bit of the finger in the ear thing, but hey, life is too short!


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## Kong Soo Do (Jun 10, 2011)

terryl965 said:


> KSD we have consider what he says, maybe he is just being very rude about it and since you happen to agree with him you do not mind.



But I haven't stated I agree with him.  In fact, I've posted comments for both sides.  I'm still formulating my opinion.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 10, 2011)

Terry,
my mother has some racial prejudices, like many people from her generation

i dont approve, i say so, and i will NOT follow suit

but at teh end of the day, she is still my mother

should I disavow my instructor? maybe so. Will I? maybe so. There is a reason i am learning Kajukembo.......


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## terryl965 (Jun 10, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> Terry,
> my mother has some racial prejudices, like many people from her generation
> 
> i dont approve, i say so, and i will NOT follow suit
> ...


 
I know TF not saying you or I should leave anybody, just that we should look at all angle when forming judgement. I have always enjoyed talking or typing with you, you have alot of great knowledge in the arts and all kidding a side a great person. Sometimes we can agree that we just dis-agree on some things. I love veggies and you maybe only a meat eater.


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## Twin Fist (Jun 10, 2011)

veggies are for rabbits and fat people. So i figure as long as i dont eat veggies, i cant be fat!!


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