# Green Dragon Studios?



## kal (Dec 9, 2006)

Hi,
Does anyone remember in the late 1980s and early 1990s a school called Green Dragon Studios that used to have big full page adverts in Inside Kung Fu?
Were they considered genuine?
The main instructors were sifu Gene Chicoine and sifu John R Allen, bith of whom used to write very good columns and articles.
The reason for my question is that looking back, Green Dragon seemed to offer an awfully large number of styles. One advert lists Hung family, 5-animal Shaolin, South Mantis, North Mantis, Choy Li Fut, Shantung Shaolin, Long Fist, White Lotus and many more.
Does anyone know where the main instructors learned all these styles from? Is it even possible to become skilled in such a wide range of arts?
I would have liked to order some of their tapes back in the day, but unfortunately I could never afford them at the time.


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## Cruentus (Dec 9, 2006)

Were they that school out of Chicago that got into a huge fight with a neighboring school, resulting in deaths and the school shutting down?


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## exile (Dec 9, 2006)

Tulisan said:


> Were they that school out of Chicago that got into a huge fight with a neighboring school, resulting in deaths and the school shutting down?



Whoa.... something like that actually happened??? Sounds like early Kwan-era  Korea, or the one-to-one duels that karateka are said to have engaged in a century or so ago involving tests of skill imposed by personal challenge to well-known fighters... something out of the movies!


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## Jade Tigress (Dec 9, 2006)

Tulisan said:


> Were they that school out of Chicago that got into a huge fight with a neighboring school, resulting in deaths and the school shutting down?



Hmmm...I didn't know about that, but here's the link for the International Green Dragon Society. 

http://www.greendragonsociety.com/new/welcome.html


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## Cruentus (Dec 9, 2006)

exile said:


> Whoa.... something like that actually happened??? Sounds like early Kwan-era Korea, or the one-to-one duels that karateka are said to have engaged in a century or so ago involving tests of skill imposed by personal challenge to well-known fighters... something out of the movies!


 
Yes...the story is like a bad kung fu movie. I can sadly imagine a bunch of morons running around in pajamas hitting each other with weapons. But from what I understand the story is true.


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## kal (Dec 9, 2006)

Yes, that is a true story, but I don't believe it was these guys at all.
The story involves the infamous John Keehan (Count Dante)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dante


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## pstarr (Dec 9, 2006)

The school to which you're referring (with Mr. Chicoine and Allen) isn't the one that was involved in the infamous fight with John Keehan (aka. "Count Dante") - that was a whole different outfit.

As for their authenticity, I really don't know.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 9, 2006)

Green Dragon Studios is/was located in Stowe, Ohio, and offered a huge amount of material via video tape, as well as their physical school location.  I have seen, and had some of their tapes a few years ago.  Interesting, but I also had questions about them and how/why they could have and offer this huge amount of stuff.  I actually started a thread here not too long ago, asking about this.  There were a few replies, I'll try to find it again.  

The biggest thing I remember about it was that on the videos the head sifu, John Allen, struck me as having a tremendously high opinion of himself.  He seemed to feel that their school was just about the only place in the US where authentic Chinese martial arts could be found.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 9, 2006)

Here is the link to my earlier thread:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41667


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## clfsean (Dec 12, 2006)

I found their demo video & some qigong set online once. I think I still have it on my machine at home. It's like an hour long. Awful symphony music & an attitude that was simply gigantic. 

The stuff they performed didn't appear to be anything special & kinda reminded me of another school that purports to have massive amounts of everything yet most can't be verified. :0

They were all in good shape physically & in all was presented a bit too robotic kinda psuedo-miltiaristic in nature (drilling, attitude, performance) to me.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 12, 2006)

clfsean said:


> I found their demo video & some qigong set online once. I think I still have it on my machine at home. It's like an hour long. Awful symphony music & an attitude that was simply gigantic.
> 
> The stuff they performed didn't appear to be anything special & kinda reminded me of another school that purports to have massive amounts of everything yet most can't be verified. :0
> 
> They were all in good shape physically & in all was presented a bit too robotic kinda psuedo-miltiaristic in nature (drilling, attitude, performance) to me.


 

I think your description pretty much is exactly how I saw it.

Interestingly, one of the short stick forms that I saw on their Introduction Video where they show clips from about 20 or 30 different sets, appeared to be identical to the short stick form I learned when I was working out with a guy from the Shao-Lin Do group.


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## clfsean (Dec 12, 2006)

Yeah I noticed the stick set as well. 

Did they do their "Bak Mei" on that video?  I don't remember, but I do remember seeing something they called "Southern Praying Mantis" & just shaking my head...


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## Flying Crane (Dec 12, 2006)

clfsean said:


> Yeah I noticed the stick set as well.
> 
> Did they do their "Bak Mei" on that video? I don't remember, but I do remember seeing something they called "Southern Praying Mantis" & just shaking my head...


 

I don't remember the Bak Mei.  I do remember they seemed to make a big deal out of the White Lotus.  Seems they felt it was somehow extremely rare and/or effective, or something, and it was really unique that they had it to offer.

I also remember some White Crane material that doesn't look anything like the Tibetan White Crane, or Fukien White Crane.  I think someone in the other thread stated it is Emei White Crane.  I guess it's something I am not familiar with, outside the Green Dragon context.


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## clfsean (Dec 12, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> I also remember some White Crane material that doesn't look anything like the Tibetan White Crane, or Fukien White Crane. I think someone in the other thread stated it is Emei White Crane. I guess it's something I am not familiar with, outside the Green Dragon context.


 
Yep... remember that as well... still lots of head shaking involved.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 12, 2006)

clfsean said:


> Yep... remember that as well... still lots of head shaking involved.


 
well, to give the benefit of the doubt, there are certainly many many Chinese systems which I am sure I have never even heard of yet.  I guess this could be some of those.

But I certainly understand the head shaking...


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## TaiChiTJ (Dec 12, 2006)

Glancing through the latest Inside Kung Fu on the magazine shelf at the bookstore, I again found the Green Dragon Studios selling tapes. 

Too bad they don't care to develop a website. Perhaps John Allen is officially retired. 

One quirk about ordering from them in the old days was that you had to give a list of two or three alternate tapes if the current tape was put into re-production. Mr. Allen explained that when he saw a student perform a set particularly well, he would order the tape re-made for the better performance. 

The White Lotus tape was "White Lotus Continuous Palms".


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## SilatFan (Dec 13, 2006)

kal said:


> Hi,
> Does anyone remember in the late 1980s and early 1990s a school called Green Dragon Studios that used to have big full page adverts in Inside Kung Fu?
> Were they considered genuine?
> The main instructors were sifu Gene Chicoine and sifu John R Allen, bith of whom used to write very good columns and articles.
> ...


 
To be honest I never knew that the two were connected professionally.  I believe that Chicoine was a police officer in Akron, Ohio and I believe Allen was in law enforcement as well but I could be wrong there.  I thought Allen had a school in Stowe but I thought Chicoine had one in manawae (sp), Ohio.  Chicoine has legitimate training in San Shou but Im not sure about all the other systems.  There was a time in this area when instructors, who were competent in one Chinese art, would take a form/set from another Chinese art and pass it off like they were experts in that method as well.  I'm not saying that I KNOW that happened here but I do suspect that thats what happened.

After speaking with a student of Chicoine's who owned his own academy at that time Chicoine seemed to be a pretty poor instructor.  Not being able to explain how some students had certain skill sets (Brick breaking in this instance) but taking the credit for that students abilities.  I don't know.  I always heard mixed reviews regarding their physical performance but consistently heard poor ones on their attitude.


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## Dale Dugas (Dec 30, 2006)

Master Gene Chicoine is the present head of the International Shuai Jiao Association.  He has many years of training in Shuai Jiao as well as other martial arts as well.  He is a retired Law Enforcement Officer.

I met and trained Iron Palm with Master Chicoine here in Massachusetts where he maintains a summer home.

I can say his skills are top notch and I would not be so disparaging with remarks.  Your petty bickering is best left to PM's or off forum.

Your Wu De is low Silatfan.


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## Lisa (Dec 31, 2006)

*Attention All Users:

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## Tames D (Dec 31, 2006)

There is a Green Dragon advertisement on page 63 of the February 2007 issue of Inside Kung-Fu.


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## jtbdad (Jan 14, 2007)

Dale Dugas said:


> Master Gene Chicoine is the present head of the International Shuai Jiao Association.  He has many years of training in Shuai Jiao as well as other martial arts as well.  He is a retired Law Enforcement Officer.
> 
> I met and trained Iron Palm with Master Chicoine here in Massachusetts where he maintains a summer home.
> 
> ...





I can't speak to the validity of Mr. Allen but I once had a conversation with Master Mollica (Matt Mollica)  who did not hesitate to state that Master Gene Chicoine is "the real deal"  Pretty high praise considering that Master Mollica's chief instructor was Master Weng.  (I think I spelled all those names right if I didn't please excuse me)


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