# Bullet Wounds



## Makalakumu (Aug 24, 2005)

Do bullets tend to transit the body in straight trajectories or can they "wander" a bit or even a lot?

I've heard stories of high velocity rounds that strike and roll through the body and sometimes exit in very weird places.  Is this an urban legend?


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## mrhnau (Aug 24, 2005)

"Normal" bullets tend to go straight out, but this needs to be qualified. Depends on how powerful. With regarding to wandering around, since the density of the body is much higher than air, I imagine the path of the bullet would be effected some, but I'm not sure how much. I'd imagine that a bullet striking something like bone would increase the chances of a deflection. I imagine that most high powered rifles/handguns would just shatter bone with minimal path modification. Not an expert though.

With regard to bouncing around, a high powered round should go straight through. I've heard of people being shot in the head with .22 pistol rounds and having the round rebound around in the skull. Enough pop to get in, but not enough to get back out. Just a matter of physics. Is anyone aware of shotgun shells doing anything similar? I've not heard of any other circumstances of bullets "bouncing around", but I am not military or what I would consider an expert. Anyone else ever hear of that?

Not sure exactly what you heard or what you consider "very weird places". I'd tend to doubt any story where some guy got shot at a perpendicular angle in the stomach and the bullet exited the foot at an odd angle. More than likely better explanations, like being shot multiple times. I'd also consider that the person is shot at an odd angle. Consider a person shot in the head while laying down. The bullet might exit out the leg. The longer the bullet has to go through a higher density medium (body), the higher the opportunity for path modification and the bullet slowing down enough to be deflected by bone or even remain in the body.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 24, 2005)

mrhnau said:
			
		

> "Not sure exactly what you heard or what you consider "very weird places". I'd tend to doubt any story where some guy got shot at a perpendicular angle in the stomach and the bullet exited the foot at an odd angle. More than likely better explanations, like being shot multiple times.


Gerald Posner uses this explanation to explain the "magic bullet" in his book Case Closed.  I've also heard my uncle, who was in the Marines, claim that M16 rounds were notorious for this.


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## mrhnau (Aug 24, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Gerald Posner uses this explanation to explain the "magic bullet" in his book Case Closed. I've also heard my uncle, who was in the Marines, claim that M16 rounds were notorious for this.


Can you give some examples? Are you talking about dramatic deviations like I mentioned? Are you talking about a 20 degree difference in exit angle? 90 degree and different part of the body? 175 degree differnence? (bullet basically coming back at you) Need some kind of idea what they are talking about.

Need circumstances too. Was the victim standing beside a tank, a secure wall or stone where the bullet could ricochet? Out in an open field? Was the person shot by one person once? Multiple times by multiple people? With an M-16 that is a reasonable possibility.

I'm not to keen on the term "magic bullet". Should be reproducable in some form. I'd like to see if this has been documented, and the circumstances surrounding it. If done in a lab setting, this would be -very- interesting to read in a journal.


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## Ceicei (Aug 24, 2005)

I recall reading some time ago of a report examining the difference and results of solid vs. hollowpoint vs. expandable / frangible bullets.  It covered some of the questions you have.  I'll see if I can locate that report and post or link the source.

- Ceicei


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## mrhnau (Aug 24, 2005)

Now hollow points can be nasty. Fragmentation is a completely different story. I was thinking more along the lines of a solid slug. I'd be very interested in seeing the article.


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## Ceicei (Aug 24, 2005)

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the report also examined the wounds that were incurred from being shot with different bullets.

- Ceicei


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## Kenpodoc (Aug 24, 2005)

Bullets tend to go in a straight line until they start to tumble or are deformed in which case they can carreen in a relatively unpredictable manner agravated by the density changes as they move through various organs.  

In general they do not go back at the shooter unless they ricochet off some high density object.  In theory a flattened bullet could act like a frisbee and circle around but I've nopt seen that and suspect that it would be very unusual. I have seen exit wounds near 90 degrees from the angle of entry.

Jeff


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## RichK (Aug 24, 2005)

Upnorthkyosa, what you are saying about a round going in one place and coming out another is in fact true. The .223 military round most commonly used in an M16 and M249 is what is called a tumbling round. It is made to enter the body and tumble all over the place causing major damage. I have seen a round go in the stomach and come out the groin, also a round go into one of the old steel pot helmets and just circle around inside. Luckily the guy wearing the helmet was unharmed. But I have also seen an incident where a friend of mine was hit in the neck from a ricochet, straight down hit a rock and just about straight back. I have also seen a tracer round go through a tricep and sear the wound.


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## takezo (Aug 25, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Do bullets tend to transit the body in straight trajectories or can they "wander" a bit or even a lot?...


If you are interested, the following website has a lot of what I consider to be very valuable infromation.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/


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## Ceicei (Aug 25, 2005)

takezo said:
			
		

> If you are interested, the following website has a lot of what I consider to be very valuable infromation.
> 
> http://www.firearmstactical.com/


 Thank you for finding that website. One of the articles I mentioned reading was from Wound Ballistics Review and a similar extensive report from another magazine. At the moment, I can't recall which issue (WBR) and the name of the other magazine. I'll have to think a bit more....

  For the purpose of this thread, the links on the bottom of that webpage are worth reading:    http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

  Unfortunately, the article I read previously isn't among these links. 

  - Ceicei


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## takezo (Aug 25, 2005)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Thank you for finding that website...- Ceicei


You are welcome. I have a rather skeptical view of anything I can buy off a news rack. Generally seems the periodical authors have rather large views of themselve's and smaller views of their readers ability to 'tell fat cow from poor bull'. Doesn't mean there aren't some knowledgeable people out there publishing good stuff. I just like to check a number of source to verify the fundamental facts. The subject website appears to be science based and not circulation based.

Have a nice day.


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