# Hello JuJitsu practitioner



## giggskadabra (Jan 23, 2016)

hey all just want to take this time to to introduce myself My name is paul im a brown belt in traditional japanese ju jitsu i also study wrestling, sambo, escrima and im a instructor in Russian all round fighting ( a competetive melee system that incorporates armed and unarmed fighting)


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 23, 2016)

Welcome to MartialTalk!


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## Paul_D (Jan 24, 2016)

Welcome, enjoy your stay


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## kuniggety (Jan 24, 2016)

What style of jiu-jitsu do you practice? Believe me, I am not a stylist purist, but I find it a little at odds that you mention traditional jiu-Jitsu but you use the incorrect transliteration used by the Brazilians/BJJ crowd.

I'm a BJJ guy. I'd love to hook up with someone who is familiar with any of the pre-Judo jiu-jutsu styles and learn from them.

Welcome aboard!


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 24, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> What style of jiu-jitsu do you practice? Believe me, I am not a stylist purist, but I find it a little at odds that you mention traditional jiu-Jitsu but you use the incorrect transliteration used by the Brazilians/BJJ crowd.


What the OP practices is almost certainly one of the modern eclectic forms of jujutsu that have developed in the UK over the last century or so, possibly tracing roots back to Yukio Tani. As in the U.S., practitioners of these styles often consider themselves to be practicing "traditional jujutsu/jiu-jitsu" even though the systems in question are a relatively modern synthesis of arts such as Judo, Aikido, Karate, and various Western influences. Like BJJ, these arts are very different (culturally and technically) from the koryu arts they are descended from.


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

kuniggety said:


> What style of jiu-jitsu do you practice? Believe me, I am not a stylist purist, but I find it a little at odds that you mention traditional jiu-Jitsu but you use the incorrect transliteration used by the Brazilians/BJJ crowd.
> 
> I'm a BJJ guy. I'd love to hook up with someone who is familiar with any of the pre-Judo jiu-jutsu styles and learn from them.
> 
> Welcome aboard!




Hey dude the school i train at is called muga mushin ryu  which comes from juko ryu.

I also study some koryu styles with a friend of mine who is 5th dan bujinkan and one of our instructors who i consider well versed in koryu ju jitsu 

I am always up for talking about bjj and jjj anytime dude , i also study grappling arts like wrestling and bjj though im not that good at them but always looking to improve


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> What the OP practices is almost certainly one of the modern eclectic forms of jujutsu that have developed in the UK over the last century or so, possibly tracing roots back to Yukio Tani. As in the U.S., practitioners of these styles often consider themselves to be practicing "traditional jujutsu/jiu-jitsu" even though the systems in question are a relatively modern synthesis of arts such as Judo, Aikido, Karate, and various Western influences. Like BJJ, these arts are very different (culturally and technically) from the koryu arts they are descended from.




Yes man but i wonder what does that OP mean?


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 24, 2016)

giggskadabra said:


> Yes man but i wonder what does that OP mean?


OP = Original Poster, I.e. the person who started the current thread.


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> OP = Original Poster, I.e. the person who started the current thread.


Ahh thanks for the info


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 24, 2016)

giggskadabra said:


> Hey dude the school i train at is called muga mushin ryu  which comes from juko ryu.
> 
> I also study some koryu styles with a friend of mine who is 5th dan bujinkan and one of our instructors who i consider well versed in koryu ju jitsu
> 
> I am always up for talking about bjj and jjj anytime dude , i also study grappling arts like wrestling and bjj though im not that good at them but always looking to improve



Yeah, Muga Mushin Ryu and Juko Ryu are relatively modern creations. I guess it comes down to what you consider "traditional." To use a metaphor, I think a lot of self-proclaimed "traditional" schools are somewhat like a 4th-generation Japanese-American family that has hung on to some family traditions and still considers themselves "Japanese" even though their great-grandfather immigrated 90 years ago and none of the current generation has been to Japan or speak the language and several members of the family have married non-Japanese spouses in the last couple of generations.

What koryu arts have you been exposed to?


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, Muga Mushin Ryu and Juko Ryu are relatively modern creations. I guess it comes down to what you consider "traditional." To use a metaphor, I think a lot of self-proclaimed "traditional" schools are somewhat like a 4th-generation Japanese-American family that has hung on to some family traditions and still considers themselves "Japanese" even though their great-grandfather immigrated 90 years ago and none of the current generation has been to Japan or speak the language and several members of the family have married non-Japanese spouses in the last couple of generations.
> 
> What koryu arts have you been exposed to?




Err the names escape me id have to ask my friend its just been the odd technique or training session were we have focused on koryu ju jitsu. 

Hes invited me to a seminar headed up by a guy called lee masters i think


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## Chris Parker (Jan 24, 2016)

Welcome aboard!

With regards to the Bujinkan, although some members have some idea of Koryu, I've found that the level of actual understanding is lacking to say the least… which isn't surprising, really, as (despite some individual's beliefs) there really isn't much to do with Koryu there, outside of the sources for some of the material. Additionally, training in a Koryu isn't really about the "techniques" at all… and training in the techniques (by themselves) isn't really anything like training in Koryu… the same way that knowing the word "Bonjour" isn't the same as being fluent in French.

Lee Masters, on the other hand, is a highly ranked  member of the Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu, a fairly late Koryu Jujutsu system potentially best known as being one of the two primary source schools for Kano Jigoro's Kodokan Judo (to give an idea of how young that particular Koryu is, Kano trained under the second and third generation memberships…). Lee, and to a degree his son Paul, have been presenting seminars on Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu for the last few years, since Lee was awarded Menkyo Kaiden (and Paul has attained Menkyo), promoting both Koryu in general, and Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu in particular. I've heard largely positive reviews from a range of martial artists with different backgrounds, so if you get the chance to go, it might be something you like.

One word of warning, though… it's really little like the "traditional" Jujutsu you've been exposed to… which isn't traditional, Japanese, or (to my mind) Jujutsu…


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Welcome aboard!
> 
> With regards to the Bujinkan, although some members have some idea of Koryu, I've found that the level of actual understanding is lacking to say the least… which isn't surprising, really, as (despite some individual's beliefs) there really isn't much to do with Koryu there, outside of the sources for some of the material. Additionally, training in a Koryu isn't really about the "techniques" at all… and training in the techniques (by themselves) isn't really anything like training in Koryu… the same way that knowing the word "Bonjour" isn't the same as being fluent in French.
> 
> ...




Well im far from being knowledgeable on these things im 3 years into my training (consistently) but i appreciate all the input from you guys. Im really open minded and always willing to learn i enjoy the style of ju jitsu i learn however you choose to spell it doesnt matter what matters to me is growing and learning and getting stronger


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## Chris Parker (Jan 24, 2016)

Cool… the whole "spelling" thing is kinda a can of worms… in simple terms, when the methods were first exposed to the West, the common transliteration was "jujitsu", or "jiu-jitsu"… since then, a number of more accepted (standardised) methods for romanizing Japanese words have come into play, most commonly the Hepburn method. In that form, 術 is always transliterated as "jutsu", based on the romanization of the hiragana used to write it (じゅじゅつ). The biggest reason this is important, however, is that there is a word in Japanese which is pronounced "jitsu" (実, じつ)… which has a rather different meaning and kanji to "jutsu". So, when the kanji 術 is seen, or used, but the pronunciation/spelling of "jitsu" is seen, it can show a potential lack of familiarity with the language, culture, and more of the claimed origin of the terminology.

One thing I was curious about, though, is that if you're still so new to all of this (the only ranking mentioned is a brown belt in your Jujitsu system, with mention of some exposure to a couple of other arts), how is it that you're an instructor in another (unrelated) system? Have you been doing that for longer than the three years you've been with the Muga Mushin guys?


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Cool… the whole "spelling" thing is kinda a can of worms… in simple terms, when the methods were first exposed to the West, the common transliteration was "jujitsu", or "jiu-jitsu"… since then, a number of more accepted (standardised) methods for romanizing Japanese words have come into play, most commonly the Hepburn method. In that form, 術 is always transliterated as "jutsu", based on the romanization of the hiragana used to write it (じゅじゅつ). The biggest reason this is important, however, is that there is a word in Japanese which is pronounced "jitsu" (実, じつ)… which has a rather different meaning and kanji to "jutsu". So, when the kanji 術 is seen, or used, but the pronunciation/spelling of "jitsu" is seen, it can show a potential lack of familiarity with the language, culture, and more of the claimed origin of the terminology.
> 
> One thing I was curious about, though, is that if you're still so new to all of this (the only ranking mentioned is a brown belt in your Jujitsu system, with mention of some exposure to a couple of other arts), how is it that you're an instructor in another (unrelated) system? Have you been doing that for longer than the three years you've been with the Muga Mushin guys?


Yes the 3 years im reffering to is with ju jitsu ju jitsu is the system that got me back into martial arts. Im not talking like 2 nights a week hourly classes though i train 5 days a week

You get blue belts teaching bjj after 3 years i suppose it depends on the school

The course i attended was really tough 2 days 8 hours each day with 1 30 min for lunch was tougher than any grading id done in ju jitsu


In relation to the spelling thank you for the info its been explained to me briefly before but i often forget its hard to find credible literature on the net


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## Chris Parker (Jan 24, 2016)

Hmm… so it was a weekend course for the Russian All Round thing, yeah? Not so different to some Krav Maga set ups… cool. It might also be noted that the blue belts you refer to in BJJ aren't instructors as much as slightly experienced practitioners leading less experienced practitioners in study groups… additionally, in some Japanese systems, you aren't considered an instructor until 3rd or 5th Dan (depending on the system/art). But, as with everything, it's very much individual to the group and class. All I was really looking for was a gauge on exactly what level of experience you are coming in with, so we can shape our answers/conversations accordingly. Thank you for that.


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## giggskadabra (Jan 24, 2016)

Chris Parker said:


> Hmm… so it was a weekend course for the Russian All Round thing, yeah? Not so different to some Krav Maga set ups… cool. It might also be noted that the blue belts you refer to in BJJ aren't instructors as much as slightly experienced practitioners leading less experienced practitioners in study groups… additionally, in some Japanese systems, you aren't considered an instructor until 3rd or 5th Dan (depending on the system/art). But, as with everything, it's very much individual to the group and class. All I was really looking for was a gauge on exactly what level of experience you are coming in with, so we can shape our answers/conversations accordingly. Thank you for that.




Ahh cool man thats understandable. I pick things up quite easy so just answer how you see fit treat me as a brown belt

Im only an instructor in russian all round fighting. But only level 1 theres 2 other levels then coaching certifications after that so again in that system im relatively new. Raf is a very new system started in 2003 i believe. In the uk there is currently only 2 schools us and gosport which is run by darrin richardson the president of raf uk across thos 2 schools there is 5 certified instructors


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## Chris Parker (Jan 25, 2016)

Ha, cool. Yeah, I've done a bit of reading about the RAF system… you're level 1? Cool, that puts things in perspective for me.


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## giggskadabra (Jan 25, 2016)

Yup level 1 this year im attending the level 2 certification  should be fun


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