# Permission to pause



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

With the Warrior Dash only two and a half weeks away, I've been training harder than ever. POUND on Mondays with half an hour of strength training before the class; yoga on Tuesday; Zumba on Wednesday - also with strength training; aikido on Thursday and on Saturday.

Between all that, and the full-time high-stress job, and the usual household stuff, there are times when I start feeling pretty ragged. And that's when I struggle. On one hand, I was brought up in the spirit of "No pain - no gain" and "just work your way through it." My dad, my uncles, my grandfathers - all former military men - were pretty ruthless in that respect. On the other hand, there are copious amounts of evidence advising against over-training - especially when coming up on a major athletic event of some sort. 

How do you make a decision when to push through and when to allow yourself to take a break? What factors do you take into account and how do you make sure you don't feel guilty about taking it easy?


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 28, 2018)

Joint pain = stop
Dizziness = stop
Illness = stop


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 28, 2018)

What Xue said.

Also, when I realize that the rate I'm going I won't be able to stay at long-term (or until whatever my goal is), I dial it back to a more manageable one. I've had enough times that I pushed through 40+hours a week of MA/exercise/fencing, only to stop completely 2 months later due to burnout. Would rather go a more reasonable pace that I enjoy, and will continue doing long-term. I found that to be more beneficial for competitions as well.


----------



## hoshin1600 (Mar 28, 2018)

i think it all depends on your goals and why you are doing what you are doing.
some times i need more of a mental break then a physical one.  my mind gets tired from intense focus on something.  going from one activity to another in a scheduled manner can be stressful that has an impact on you.  having to get a run done after "A"  so that you can move to "B"  in order to have time for "C".


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Joint pain = stop
> Dizziness = stop
> Illness = stop


I agree with you on dizziness and illness. But the joint pain is a tough one, because I have chronic pain. So... it's there pretty much ALL the time. I sort of have to pick and choose - is this the regular pain? Or is this some sort of extraordinary pain? Is it going to go away if I stretch and get moving? That kind of thing...


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> What Xue said.
> 
> Also, when I realize that the rate I'm going I won't be able to stay at long-term (or until whatever my goal is), I dial it back to a more manageable one. I've had enough times that I pushed through 40+hours a week of MA/exercise/fencing, only to stop completely 2 months later due to burnout. Would rather go a more reasonable pace that I enjoy, and will continue doing long-term. I found that to be more beneficial for competitions as well.


That's a great point! The mental strain. I am a chronic over-achiever, and this is definitely a factor. It particularly comes into play for the Saturday martial arts class - it starts at 8:30, so no sleeping in, and I LOVE to sleep in on weekends. So, it takes a real effort of will to get myself up and going.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 28, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> I agree with you on dizziness and illness. But the joint pain is a tough one, because I have chronic pain. So... it's there pretty much ALL the time. I sort of have to pick and choose - is this the regular pain? Or is this some sort of extraordinary pain? Is it going to go away if I stretch and get moving? That kind of thing...



I too have joint pain regularly, but if you have it long enough you know the difference between what is normal and what is not.


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> i think it all depends on your goals and why you are doing what you are doing.



Oh, that's easy! My goals are to put in a marginally respectable performance at Warrior Dash (for me, it means not skipping any obstacles even if I have to crawl over them), maintain healthy lifestyle, be a super-star at work, take care of my husband, my animals, my friends, my family, and my house, publish a book (translated or original) every three months, and look like Mila Kunis, while doing so. 



hoshin1600 said:


> some times i need more of a mental break then a physical one.  my mind gets tired from intense focus on something.  going from one activity to another in a scheduled manner can be stressful that has an impact on you.  having to get a run done after "A"  so that you can move to "B"  in order to have time for "C".



As I mentioned in my previous comment - the mental fatigue is definitely there. One of these days... I'll figure it all out.


----------



## pdg (Mar 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> Joint pain = stop
> Dizziness = stop
> Illness = stop



Surely there has to be a measure though...

Sometimes, I have minor pain in joints, usually caused by a slight pull or over exertion - I'll either train through it or guard/restrict.

Dizziness happens sometimes too. Not that I'm a competitive person or anything but even warmups become a race occasionally 

Illness? Of what severity? I've had a couple of colds and generally just get on with it. I admit it's "less effective" exercise, but it's still more effective than sitting on the sofa watching telly...


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 28, 2018)

pdg said:


> Surely there has to be a measure though...
> 
> Sometimes, I have minor pain in joints, usually caused by a slight pull or over exertion - I'll either train through it or guard/restrict.
> 
> ...



You do it your way and I will do it mine. Over 40 years of this has lead me to that.


----------



## pdg (Mar 28, 2018)

Xue Sheng said:


> You do it your way and I will do it mine. Over 40 years of this has lead me to that.



If it works for you, great - I wouldn't say it's any more justifiable as a blanket recommendation than "my" way though 

My job is fairly physically demanding, and I'm self employed - if I don't work I don't get paid.

So, I'm somewhat acclimatised to working through or around niggles.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Mar 28, 2018)

pdg said:


> If it works for you, great - I wouldn't say it's any more justifiable as a blanket recommendation than "my" way though
> 
> My job is fairly physically demanding, and I'm self employed - if I don't work I don't get paid.
> 
> So, I'm somewhat acclimatized to working through or around niggles.



I get the impression you make a lot of assumptions about me that are rather unfounded....we are not talking a job here, I have had my share of tough jobs in my life and gotten through a heck of a lot of "niggles", we are talking training and if you are concerned about getting paid you hurt yourself training and you can't go to work and get paid

It is where over 40 years of experience at this, much of it not following those 3 simple rules, has gotten me, and in some cases not following those has made it impossible to go to a tough job and I had at the time, have experience with that too.   

Also anyone who comments here, unless they are a doctor, a physiologist or a experienced and licensed trainer isn't "any more justifiable than a blanket recommendation than "my" way"

Again, are we done now.


----------



## JR 137 (Mar 28, 2018)

Googling “signs & symptoms of overtraining” lead me to this...

*Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome*

Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
Mild leg soreness, general aches, and pains
Pain in muscles and joints
Sudden drop in performance
Insomnia
Headaches
Decreased immunity (increased number of colds, and sore throats)
Decrease in training capacity/intensity
Moodiness and irritability
Depression
Loss of enthusiasm for the sport
Decreased appetite
Increased incidence of injuries.
A compulsive need to exercise
Seems pretty accurate to me and what I’ve seen as an athletic trainer (sports med, not personal trainer).  No emphasis on the colored parts by me; they were links to articles from my cut and paste.  The insomnia and psychological stuff is probably what I’ve seen most.  Pain, soreness, etc. is applicable, but less applicable by itself in this regard.


----------



## granfire (Mar 28, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Googling “signs & symptoms of overtraining” lead me to this...
> 
> *Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome*
> 
> ...


I think I need to tell my boss I can come in only eveery other day, 3 times a week, tops....

OHHHHHH
you mean TRAINING......
awe shucks....


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

granfire said:


> I think I need to tell my boss I can come in only eveery other day, 3 times a week, tops....
> 
> OHHHHHH
> you mean TRAINING......
> awe shucks....


I am still looking for ways to cash in all the afternoon naps I refused to take as a kid.


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Googling “signs & symptoms of overtraining” lead me to this...
> 
> *Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome*
> 
> ...


That is a great list - thank you. Definitely worth keeping in mind. I'll need to think about how to adapt it for my needs. For instance, my immune system is shot - @gpseymour has been to Ukraine with me once, and he can tell you what sort of atmosphere I grew up in. The problem with that is - I pick up everyone's sneezes and coughs at every opportunity. So, I can't always tell - am I having lowered immunity because I am tired, or is it just... you know... my lowered immunity, because thank you, Chernobyl. 

I'm BPD, so moodiness, irritability, and depression are all part of the three-ring circus in my head. I just have to work hard not to let it affect other people.

Decreased appetite is an EXCELLENT one - I really should keep an eye on that one. I have to be REALLY messed up to quit eating.

Need to think about the compulsive need to exercise - I am more than a little bit addicted to the free endorphins.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 28, 2018)

You have a goal though. So in theory you would want to set out a short ish term camp to achieve that. Tapering up to about a week before. Then moving to less injury based stuff during that last week.

At which point you will over train but it won't be forever so tough cookies, push through.

Then when you are done. Rest for a bit and slowly start the process again.


----------



## drop bear (Mar 28, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Googling “signs & symptoms of overtraining” lead me to this...
> 
> *Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome*
> 
> ...



That is also a list of just what to expect during any goal orientated training program.

I mean you just described the grind.


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 28, 2018)

drop bear said:


> You have a goal though. So in theory you would want to set out a short ish term camp to achieve that. Tapering up to about a week before. Then moving to less injury based stuff during that last week.
> 
> At which point you will over train but it won't be forever so tough cookies, push through.
> 
> Then when you are done. Rest for a bit and slowly start the process again.


I'll need to plan that out with the calendar. I have another mud run in October.


----------



## _Simon_ (Mar 29, 2018)

A very important thread (thank you AH for bringing it up), and I feel I can speak on this.

I've spent alot of my life being hard on myself. Putting excess pressure on myself. I naturally chose a martial arts style that was 'hard' and would run me into the ground. I was tired, injuries would crop up, and I felt no motivation to keep going, all in the name of 'no I've gotta push through. I've gotta look like I'm strong.' It was all coming from a deep insecurity within myself, but I kept denying it and pushing it further away, all because I thought I had to be strong and be 'in control.'

We can often push ourselves so hard in order to mask insecurities, and that's what it was for me. I was trying to pretend that if I looked strong, I must be. If I just stay incredibly tensed, I'll be safe. All sorts of strange belief systems... The last 1-2 years that I trained in my last style I was literally dragging myself.. my motivation was just dwindling day by day and I just was destroying myself.

Then I finally made the call and woke up in a sense, and finally was honest with myself: "I don't wanna do this anymore, I can't do this to myself anymore." As emotional as it was, I knew I could listen to my heart in this. So I left my style.

Then six months later my body gave me further feedback that I needed to ease up on myself, and after 5 trips to emergency, constant excruciating pain, and no one being able to tell me why, I found out I had pelvic floor tension myalgia/chronic pelvic pain syndrome. Basically far too tight within the pelvic muscles which caused incredible pain and a whole host of other issues. It's just where I stored tension as a stress/survival response. Believing I needed to stay 'tight' and 'tense' in order to feel safe. And it finally added up. So this was the body's further way of saying "you need to take it easier...", and I definitely made the right choice in leaving.

Whilst it might not all be relevant to you AH, I write all this because its so... so important that we listen to ourselves, be honest with ourselves, and most importantly be kind to ourselves. Yes it's great to train hard, but things can get out of balance fast. And if you feel guilty when you don't train, it's sooo much more beneficial trying to get to the root of the guilt instead of pushing through it or pushing it away. Asking oneself: "Well why do I need to train and push through? What am I trying to prove? Do I think I'll be a failure if I don't? Weak? Have not much self-worth?" And really questioning whether it's true.

We aren't strong from just putting on some brave face, a fake smile, or looking like I've got my **** sorted. It comes from real honesty, vulnerability, and in just letting ourselves be vulnerable. Letting ourselves feel what we're feeling. Being totally honest as to what our intentions are, and looking at what beliefs surround it.

Sorry this went a little long, but it really spoke to me, and I know I've got a long way to go still in learning to listen to myself and be honest (am still working through my pelvic pain issues, and there are still incredibly painful days..), if anyone gets anything out of it, that's great. This is just my experience. I'd say that everyone is wired differently, and some would benefit from that 'yang' energy (learning about the will, being straight up, learning resilience, perseverance etc), and others the 'yin' (allowing, relaxing, being gentle, nurturing towards yourself).

Overtraining is often simply a case of not being in tune with yourself, not being honest or not being able to listen to yourself. Not taking the body's advice that "I need rest and recovery," and pushing on through. And everyone has different degrees of it, or different tolerance levels. The other guys have given great responses, and that list is definitely a good guide. As long as it leads to a deepening of your listening to your own body and what it needs, that's great. There are some days where you just wanna collapse, and it's okay to! Rest up, and you'll feel the better for it tomorrow, so you can train tomorrow in a much more healthy and functional way.

It's been a process for me, and that tendency to push myself still comes up, but I'm being more and more honest, and taking more rest when it's needed.

A very long winded way of saying: "Be kind to yourself."


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 29, 2018)

_Simon_ said:


> A very important thread (thank you AH for bringing it up), and I feel I can speak on this.
> 
> I've spent alot of my life being hard on myself. Putting excess pressure on myself. I naturally chose a martial arts style that was 'hard' and would run me into the ground. I was tired, injuries would crop up, and I felt no motivation to keep going, all in the name of 'no I've gotta push through. I've gotta look like I'm strong.' It was all coming from a deep insecurity within myself, but I kept denying it and pushing it further away, all because I thought I had to be strong and be 'in control.'
> 
> ...


Hey, who am I to judge? I am part Russian - ergo, genetically long-winded in speaking and writing. 

Seriously, this is wonderful, and I appreciate your input. You are very brave, I think - first, because you pushed through what must have been very painful and very exhausting; and second, because you had the guts to stop and take stock.

I have a rare, weird skeletal defect - my spine sits too high with respect to my pelvis. So... it's sort of like a wobbly flag pole or fence post. I have to constantly keep track of whether I am doing enough to exercise my core and abdominal muscles, because they have to do some of the job of keeping me upright that the spine is supposed to do but can't do. This defect is inoperable, so it's pretty much the life of exercise for the rest of my days for me. It's not a bad thing, but it requires a lot of checks and balances - how stiff am I going to be tomorrow if I don't stretch today? How wobbly am I today because I had no core exercises yesterday? And so on.


----------



## aedrasteia (Mar 29, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> "On one hand, I was brought up in the spirit of "No pain - no gain" and "just work your way through it." My dad, my uncles, my grandfathers - all former military men - were pretty ruthless in that respect.
> 
> How do you make a decision when to push through and when to allow yourself to take a break? What factors do you take into account and how do you make sure you don't feel guilty about taking it easy?"



Where are Dad, Uncles and Grandfathers? Still alive? Still in Ukraine?   Where are Mother, Aunts, Grandmothers?

w/respect A


----------



## AngryHobbit (Mar 29, 2018)

aedrasteia said:


> Where are Dad, Uncles and Grandfathers? Still alive? Still in Ukraine?   Where are Mother, Aunts, Grandmothers?
> 
> w/respect A


All my grandparents are gone, as are my uncles. My mom died when I was 14. My dad and my step-mom still reside in Ukraine. I asked if I need to get my a** into gear and bring them here, but they don't want to leave - they don't speak the language, don't think they can survive the transition, and don't want to be wholly dependent on me. I do support them now, but they have their own income too.


----------



## _Simon_ (Mar 30, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> Hey, who am I to judge? I am part Russian - ergo, genetically long-winded in speaking and writing.
> 
> Seriously, this is wonderful, and I appreciate your input. You are very brave, I think - first, because you pushed through what must have been very painful and very exhausting; and second, because you had the guts to stop and take stock.
> 
> I have a rare, weird skeletal defect - my spine sits too high with respect to my pelvis. So... it's sort of like a wobbly flag pole or fence post. I have to constantly keep track of whether I am doing enough to exercise my core and abdominal muscles, because they have to do some of the job of keeping me upright that the spine is supposed to do but can't do. This defect is inoperable, so it's pretty much the life of exercise for the rest of my days for me. It's not a bad thing, but it requires a lot of checks and balances - how stiff am I going to be tomorrow if I don't stretch today? How wobbly am I today because I had no core exercises yesterday? And so on.


Thanks AH that's very kind of you . Yeah has been honestly just hellish, but it's really truly taught me to just be kinder to myself, and listen to when I'm pushing things a bit much. And just how important relaxing is.

Ah wow, yeah and you'd definitely be more in tune right there, that must be incredibly challenging for you. I guess it's a case of knowing yourself and knowing when too far is too far, and no one else will know that but can only speculate. That would take a lot of maintenance and intuitive awareness on your part for sure.

It's a really interesting area that seems to be gaining in attention (the importance of recovery, not needing as much training volume as we think etc). Whilst breaking through preconceived limitations is important, sometimes it's just not necessary, and sometimes it's just totally 100% okay to take it a bit easier. For long term health, long term enjoyment, and I'd argue long term results in performance!


----------



## gucia6 (Apr 12, 2018)

AngryHobbit said:


> How do you make a decision when to push through and when to allow yourself to take a break? What factors do you take into account and how do you make sure you don't feel guilty about taking it easy?


How do I know when to stop?
I listen to my body. And as the physical issues are relatively easy to solve, the psychological are the ones I pay attention to most.

Any time I feel tired (fatigued), have problems waking up, often wake up at night, angry for no reason, start snapping at people, have the feeling that my day suddenly got shorter and I cannot manage usual tasks, when I start thinking "what is the purpose of all of that?", my alarm lights start blinking.
Thanks to 2 heavy experiences in my life, which one led to depression (fortunately happily ended without tragedy) and other led to uncontrolled panic attacks for most insignificant reasons, I learned to pay very close attention to all those little changes.

And whenever my alert lights start to blink, I take a deep breath and stop. After all I have only one life, only one health, only one fantastic family. And I always have this internal conflict, because I would like to be tough, I would love to train more, but I know I am "fragile" and one step too far could take me to the "dark side" and I know it is not funny there.
And when I stop I have a look at my diet , as this is very often associated with my psychological issues. Generally I eat healthy, but sometimes due to lack of time to prepare, laziness or whatever I grab something from my "forbidden" list. If that happens, the best solution for me is fasting. It absolutely clears and calms down my mind and body. After short period of fasting I adjust my food to daily cortisol/insulin cycle. Other than that, I sleep much more. After putting kids to bed around 8pm, I am going to sleep as well.
Doing this "reset" every now and then puts me back on track.

And for the physical issues I stop when I have unusual joint or muscle pain or stiffness. And I don't mean some sore muscles after training, but a pain and tightness that prevents me from moving, as if the muscles or joints got wrapped with tight strap to protect what is inside. Then I stop any exercises and relax, go to sauna, eat food that might help in the recovery, sleep.

As for feeling "guilty" taking a break? I stopped that long time ago.
After all I am not professional and I know that some break now an then improves my efficiency. And it does not matter if it is training, work or house activities. Just sometimes I have to be lazy, sit down and look at the beautiful landscape or setting sun


----------



## AngryHobbit (Apr 12, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> As for feeling "guilty" taking a break? I stopped that long time ago.
> After all I am not professional and I know that some break now an then improves my efficiency. And it does not matter if it is training, work or house activities. Just sometimes I have to be lazy, sit down and look at the beautiful landscape or setting sun



I am still learning to do this. I grew up in a culture, where a lot of responsibility rested with EVERYONE, including children, not to whine about their problems, because everyone else's lives were already hard enough. So, it was very common for us, as kids, not to talk about feeling sick unless it was getting SERIOUS (like, tonsilitis serious or scarlet fever serious). 

Something so deep-rooted in one's psyche is VERY hard to recondition. But I am working on it. Promise.


----------



## _Simon_ (Apr 12, 2018)

gucia6 said:


> How do I know when to stop?
> I listen to my body. And as the physical issues are relatively easy to solve, the psychological are the ones I pay attention to most.
> 
> Any time I feel tired (fatigued), have problems waking up, often wake up at night, angry for no reason, start snapping at people, have the feeling that my day suddenly got shorter and I cannot manage usual tasks, when I start thinking "what is the purpose of all of that?", my alarm lights start blinking.
> ...


A beautiful post, thanks so much for sharing, got alot out of that


----------

