# Creatine and Martial Arts?



## MikeMartial

I'd like to hear from any martial artists who currently use, or have used creatine.  If you have, please explain "why" you are/did, and any positive or negative effects you found while training at your school.  

Please keep in mind I *FULLY* understand what creatine is, what it does, etc etc, and have used it in the past with great results---while weightlifting.  While I can easily see why creatine would be helpful in a MMA situation, I'm wondering if anyone has found a benefit in a fast, dynamic striking art like TKD.

I'm contemplating loading it again to test the results with my TKD training, but I'd like to hear from others prior to doing so.

  Thanks!


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## FearlessFreep

The one thing that scars me after watching Mark McGwire hit a ton of home runs but his body fall apart from injury is that it seems that we are able to chemically build muscles to the point that they are so strong that they can damage themselves pretty easily

Like a drag-racing engine that has to be re-built after each race.  Lot of power for one brief instant, but a lot of self-destruction.


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## Brother John

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> The one thing that scars me after watching Mark McGwire hit a ton of home runs but his body fall apart from injury is that it seems that we are able to chemically build muscles to the point that they are so strong that they can damage themselves pretty easily
> 
> Like a drag-racing engine that has to be re-built after each race.  Lot of power for one brief instant, but a lot of self-destruction.



Mr. Freep
I hope I don't offend you too much by saying this, BUT:
You've got to be kidding.

Building strong muscles is one of the all around healthiest things you can do, so long as you don't jack with your enocrine system to get it done. Creatine is a naturally occuring substance in our musculature; it greatly increases the bodies ability to create ATP, which the body uses to heal it's self, build itself and as a source of energy. The ONLY way that creatine could harm you is if you take it outside of it's intended dosage levels or dehydrate yourself while taking it....as it requires (DEMANDS) plenty of water from your system. So long as one uses it in the intended ways and takes in plenty of water... it's nothing but healthy. Weight-bearing resistance work is also very very good for you. Stronger muscles are actually ten times more resistant to stress, strain or rupture than muscles that aren't built up and strengthened. Joints supported by solid/strong musculature are also a great deal better off.

NOW: TO the original poster here...
I use creatine for five months out of the year, two months on, three months off, three months on, four months off. I feel that this helps me accomplish my goals best. Cycling it like this helps me make sure that the rest of my system gets hydrated well enough w/out the excess demands placed by creatine monohydrate.
As for it's effects on my martial arts?
Well, as our muscles are what propel us in our arts (especially one that relies on the larger musculature groups of the legs, glutes, ab/aductors and lower back... like TKD does)...then the added strength helps here. PLUS: I don't know about you, but my weight routine can sometimes really take it out of me and make me feel like not showing up at the school. (I do anway) Well the recouperative benefits of Creatine Monohydrate are great for this. I don't feel as fatigued and can really dig into my Karate workouts appart from my weight training.

Hope this answers your question well enough.
Your Brother
John


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## MikeMartial

Brother John,

  Awesome reply, thank you!!!  I was hoping I'd have someone who weight trains, understands creatine, AND practices a striking art respond.  :ultracool 

Glad to see you've had positive results!


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## TigerWoman

I realize that experience is really the topic desired here but as others will read this, I am posting an article here that has more information about it. In particular why I have not taken it, is that creatine used wrongly can cause liver and kidney damage. Always good to research fully any supplement you take. TW


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## Brother John

Hey Tiger woman!
Knowledgeable as always! Thanks for the good article.
A scholar and a warrior...
and a heck of a fine lady to boot!! 
 :asian: 

It is always wise to research the HECK out of any supplement that you take. Even some relatively simple over the counter multivitimin/minerals that you could buy at most any drugstore... look into it. Sometimes theres things that, when taken together....have diminishing returns. Zinc & Calcium fight each other for absorption.
AND: Concerning creatine...
another Very commonly used Amino Acid that helps a great deal in recovering from strenuous workouts is L-Glutamine. ((I highly recomend it)) But, you shouldn't take Creatine and L-Glutamine at the same time, as the carrier that they use for transport is the same... usually the Glutamine gets it all and then you just have very expensive creatine poo...
 :mrtoilet: 
not good. 
So if you take them both (which as I said, they both work well toward the same end: Goooood recovery from hard workouts) then don't take them w/in 2 hours of each other.  Most bodybuilders and powerlifters take around 2000mg of L-Glutamine on an empty stomach just before bed and another 2000mg on an empty stomach just after getting up in the morning.
I suggest that you take 1/2 of your creatine dosage about half an hour to an hour before working out and then the 2nd half directly after working out (Immediately). Be SURE when you drink it that you take it with some form of simple sugars (carbs). To work AT ALL Creatine Monohydrate MUST join with a high level of sugars in your system!!! Period. BUT: Don't use grape juice or grapefruit juice, there's an acid in it that alters the nature of the Creatine!!! OJ is great! So is real lemonade. I also like those "SPLASH" Drinks with it too. 

Another warning: DRINK DRINK DRINK!!! That kidney damage that TL was talking about is no joke. In our soda-pop N coffee culture, we are more often than not in some grade of dehydration most of the time!!!! If you are going to try to get the good that's to be had in Creatine Monohydrate you Must drink lots of WATER. Nothing else, WATER!!!

Next Creatine warning: NO ATKINS. Like I said, it MUST bond with sugars in the belly. On the low or no carbs diets..... then you might as well be pouring baking soda in your gut!!! You'll get cramps. ((Funny thing: I just mistyped 'cramps' and left out the 'm'... if you don't drink lots and get your carbs.... you'll get those too!  ;-) )

You MUST check out what you put into your body!!!
You and your reaching for your potential are WORTH the time!

There's good to be had from supplements like Creatine!!! For many it's worth the money and time and research and jumping through all the hoops to make it safe and most effective. If you aren't willing to DRINK LOTS and get your carbs... then save your money.

BESIDES: There's three things that people could do to make themselves a LOT healtheir if they only knew these four secrets:
1. Take a walk somewhere pretty. The walk and the beauty will do your heart good and releave stress...partially just cuz you'll have quiet time to think.
2. DRINK MORE WATER!!!
3. Get MORE sleep!!!!
4. Practice deep breathing exercises daily.

exercise + better hydration + more rest + higher oxygenation saturation levels = a healtheir happier YOU!!!!
I highly recomend it!

Your Brother (To your Health...  :drinkbeer  )
John


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## DuneViking

NOSTROVIA! Very excellent thread!!!!!I read it because creatine sounded familiar, and the ATP info then made it click. Not familiar with it or the L-Gl amino acid, but great information!!


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## MikeMartial

Great replies, guys, thanks 

I know a fair bit about L-glutamine...and it makes for expensive food for the intestines. 

When it was put on the market, all the research backing it as "immune enhancing" and "anti-catabolic" came from intravenous dosages;  due to the instability of L-Glutamine in water and pH extremes, it is safe to assume that much of L-Glutamine decomposes once it passes into the GI tract. Gastric acid is equivalent to 0.1 Normal Hydrochloric Acid (pH less than 2) and at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit and a pH below 2, L-Glutamine decomposes very quickly.

Since L-Glutamine is a free amino acid, what percentage that does survive the pH extremes of the stomach is absorbed through the intestinal wall by a different mechanism than covalent bound amino acids...this free amino acid absorption mechanism is competitive... meaning that in an excess of free amino acids, only a certain percentage of any particular free amino acid will be absorbed.   So, in theory, the amount actually need to obtain the same results as in the original intravenous dosaing test would be.....well, lets just say a heck of a lot more that a few 5 gram scoops.  

Supposedly, glutamine peptides will bypass this, but until I see the facts, I'll save my money for the stuff that works 

 I learned the hard way, though----after a few years of buying tubs of it.  I was on the L-glutamine bandwagon just like any other body builder at the time.  

Anyhooo...... 
I've decided to start back on the creatine next week, so we'll see how it goes. I'll start a thread based on my results.


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## Brother John

good luck to ya!

 :asian: 
Your Brother
John


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## Brother John

Hows that creatine working for you?






Your Brother
John


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## MikeMartial

So far, so good.  I've been consciously upping my h20 intake, and taking only 5 grams daily of creatine; I'm not doing the "loading" phase, since, well, that was a marketing scam.  Talk to Bill Phillips about that one 

Haven't yet noticed anything in the dojang, but last weight workout felt really good.  I shouldn't theoretically see anything for 30 days with the dosage I'm on.  Oh, and on resistance training days, I do 5 grams pre and 5 grams post workout.  TKD days are just 5 grams.


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## JKD_Silat

I've been taking creatine to supplement my balanced diet of high protien, and carbs, with moderate un saturated fats, in cycles for a few years. I take creatine with Alpha Lipoic Acid, which helps the absorption of creatine. I also consume over a gallon of water a day, to recieve maximun benefits from creatine, and  to stay properly hydrated, because I'm quite active. I noticed that my anaerobic  (short burst, hight intensity)  capacity  has improved vastly when I am cycling on it. This in turn aids my weight/strength training, and helps delay muscular fatigue, and failure when grappling, and striking .


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## psi_radar

Having trouble with my service, multiple post, please delete, moderator.


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## psi_radar

I use creatine in small amounts, a little under the recommended daily "maintenance" dose, which amounts to a small teaspoon a day. Due to the altitude I live at, I drink a lot of water anyway, but whenever I take creatine I drink more. It's totally anecdotal, but I have noticed a significant amount of increase in muscular endurance when I've taken it, with no apparent side effects, as of yet.


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## psi_radar

Having trouble with my service, multiple post, please delete, moderator.


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## MikeMartial

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Not much new here; in the few classes I've had, I've *possibly* noticed some decreased fatigue.  Could have also been an easier class.

Trying to work up to 4 litres of H20 intake a day---NOT easy, but needed.


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## MikeMartial

*Update*


Well, I've had noticeable changes in my fatigue level while sparring; I had hoped this would be the result.  I seem to recover faster, and not tire as easily.  I still get _tired,_ and out of breath, but not to the point where I was before.

I'm still doing a weight-training program, and I have seen gains in strength, which I knew I would; I've used creatine in this regard before.

I just wasn't sure if it would have the same effect for a full-body anareobic activity like sparring.


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## Brother John

Interesting!
Thanks for sharing...
I was wondering about this the other day. Glad to see it's got more benefits for you than just the mass/strength part!

Your Brother
John


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