# systema and sambo



## shoshi (Oct 26, 2020)

What are the diffrences?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 26, 2020)

They are two very different systems. That's like asking what are the differences between krav maga and judo.


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## Gweilo (Oct 27, 2020)

Sambo is a wrestling art, and mainly used for sport, the name is an acronym, of which in Russian basically means unarmed fighting, but you can find combat adaptations of the art, like a lot of wrestling it combines speed strength, flexability, whilst trying to pin, submit or KO outscore your opponent.
Systema is an art that the exponent will use tension only where its needed, it combines continuous movement, good structure, and being relaxed as you can, in order to adapt to your attacker, some call it the grey man principle, by moving more naturally, instead of a stylised stance, the Systema practiicioner will try to disiguse their skill, until needed, this is done by hiding strikes within their movement, all aspects of training are covered, from structure breaking, joint and lock manipulation, weapons etc, as well as using physics of human movement. But the main part of systema training is control of yourself, controlling your phyche in stressfull senarios, which is encompassed with breathwork, there is far more to it than that, but hope that helps.


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## shoshi (Oct 27, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> They are two very different systems. That's like asking what are the differences between krav maga and judo.


Krav Maga does have judo influence but it also a lot of strike and kicking. Krav Maga comes from judo and wing chun, muay thai and wrestling and also weapons training. it is not sport, its combat. it is fun to train in. like judo.


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## shoshi (Oct 27, 2020)

Gweilo said:


> Sambo is a wrestling art, and mainly used for sport, the name is an acronym, of which in Russian basically means unarmed fighting, but you can find combat adaptations of the art, like a lot of wrestling it combines speed strength, flexability, whilst trying to pin, submit or KO outscore your opponent.
> Systema is an art that the exponent will use tension only where its needed, it combines continuous movement, good structure, and being relaxed as you can, in order to adapt to your attacker, some call it the grey man principle, by moving more naturally, instead of a stylised stance, the Systema practiicioner will try to disiguse their skill, until needed, this is done by hiding strikes within their movement, all aspects of training are covered, from structure breaking, joint and lock manipulation, weapons etc, as well as using physics of human movement. But the main part of systema training is control of yourself, controlling your phyche in stressfull senarios, which is encompassed with breathwork, there is far more to it than that, but hope that helps.



You seem very knowledgeable. were you Russian army?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 27, 2020)

shoshi said:


> Krav Maga does have judo influence but it also a lot of strike and kicking. Krav Maga comes from judo and wing chun, muay thai and wrestling and also weapons training. it is not sport, its combat. it is fun to train in. like judo.


Yes. I think you missed my point. They are two entirely different systems, to the point that there's no purpose in a comparison. They just happen to come from the same region.


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## Gweilo (Oct 28, 2020)

shoshi said:


> You seem very knowledgeable. were you Russian army?



No, I but I do train in Systema, and have done for a while, we also have a Hungarian man, that used to compete in Sambo, who teaches a few elements in our groundwork training.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Oct 29, 2020)

Isnt there a second question of which type of systema?  Arent there a few diffrent types?


And above but eleborating on what Sambo is.   Its a acronym in Russian for self defenc without weapons.  (which is the more accurate and apt one if i recall)  If you see people write Sombo its the same, sambo is a slur. (so some elect not to use it, i am not one of them)

It is effectively a mixture of Judo and Wrestling, sub divided into sport and comabat vareints, combat varients can in theory contain and do anything.  Combat sambo also doesnt seem to be regulated or as regulated as the sport side, so the striking could be dodgy or more so than the grappling in them. 


International SAMBO Federation (FIAS)   I belive that is the link to the main (or only) international federation for them.  I havent looked into what orgs, but that should at least open the door to skim. 


Addendum: I really wish some places would look after their websites, looking for things is hard enough without dead links etc or renamed clubs not being re registered.

Addendum 2: I think the only two things they have in common are, the region they are made in and the founders of them both being arrested in the USSR.


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## Gweilo (Oct 30, 2020)

Rat said:


> Isnt there a second question of which type of systema?  Arent there a few diffrent types?
> 
> 
> And above but eleborating on what Sambo is.   Its a acronym in Russian for self defenc without weapons.  (which is the more accurate and apt one if i recall)  If you see people write Sombo its the same, sambo is a slur. (so some elect not to use it, i am not one of them)
> ...



Good old Google. Yes there are several types of Systema, Russia is a huge place, and very diverse. The different styles if thats what you want to call it, have the basic same 4 principles, Breath, relax, structure, movement, and it depends on the main instructor and their experience, Systema Kadochnikova is more like the basic military combat, Systema Spetsnaz run by Vadim Starov is based on his expeiences in the secret police (for the want of a better phrase) Systema cossack is influenced by Andrey Karimovs cossack background and uses influences of whip and sword. Ryabko his is inspired by his orthadox upbringing and milutary career, and his top student Vasiliev, whos version is based on his military, martial art and a very hard place to grow up, the city of Tver. The common misconception is the word Style (even though it fits), Systema means system, you find your own system of self defense by using the 4 principles and moulding them to yourself, but everything we do is bound in those principles. My self differ sleightly from my teacher, who is military and was a very high ranking Aikidoist, he still follows a non destructive principle, when I teach, I don't. Some Systema instructors see groundwork as low acrobatic, rolling over balance beams, some see groundwork as not important, so spend little time on it, myself beleive, if its called self defense, then you need to survive any senario,and from my Bujikan and Hapkido days I use elements from those arts in my Systema. The other thing I like to implement is sparring, students need to know they can deal with strikes and adapt, so we continually change partners, play spar, and pressure test spar, I have been to other classes, where they rely on drills and pkay sparring. The term Systena comes from a uniform system of efficient training, so there would have been, a basic training, and diffent levels of military training, from weapons to special forces and kgb secret police etc.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> does anyone on here practice sambo? would love to try it


Yes, but not in the last...7 years? Something like that.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> have you trained in Judo too?


Sorta? I trained in it for about a year, and training in sambo along with a jujitsu that focuses on standup, both were pretty similar to the judo I trained.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> have you trained in Judo too?


Is there something specific you want to know about sambo or judo?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> not Judo, i asked if you trained it it. I want to know about sambo. Is there strangulations?


Theoretically, no. At least not in competitions (unless that's changed in the past few years). However, my school taught chokes. It was a combat sambo school primarily, but even the people that I talked to that learned sport sambo still _learned_ chokes, they just didn't really practice them since it's not too relevant to the sporting rules.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> strange when you think that chokes are very good in competition judo. I suppose the military  teach another version of sambo?


Yup. Sport sambo vs. combat sambo. What I trained was combat, although people also participated in the sport side of it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

jodie said:


> is this real Military sambo ?


I only skimmed through the video. But from what I can tell a lot of it was spending time on the ground defending yourself against someone not on the ground. That's only a small part of it-the best way to describe it would be MMA with a heavier focus on grappling, and not shying away from leg locks.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 5, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I only skimmed through the video. But from what I can tell a lot of it was spending time on the ground defending yourself against someone not on the ground. That's only a small part of it-the best way to describe it would be MMA with a heavier focus on grappling, and not shying away from leg locks.


This might be a result of a difference between civilian vs military combat sambo, I don't know. My above response is just based on my experience.


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