# So your in some urban hellhole...



## Joab (Jun 1, 2009)

minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? Do you side step him, perhaps trip him, use his force against him, let physics or gravity do the rest and watch him slam into the ground and than go the opposite direction of him FAST. Or do you hit him with some nifty blow into just the right nerve cluster and watch him collapse to your immense relief. Do you grab him and pull him down and put him in some BJJ hold that not even the Gracies could break out of. Or do you do something else. All opinions appreciated.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 1, 2009)

Joab said:


> minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? Do you side step him, perhaps trip him, use his force against him, let physics or gravity do the rest and watch him slam into the ground and than go the opposite direction of him FAST. Or do you hit him with some nifty blow into just the right nerve cluster and watch him collapse to your immense relief. Do you grab him and pull him down and put him in some BJJ hold that not even the Gracies could break out of. Or do you do something else. All opinions appreciated.



I'm huge.  He better be really really huge, or he's going to bounce off me and then I'll sit on him.


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## Joab (Jun 1, 2009)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm huge. He better be really really huge, or he's going to bounce off me and then I'll sit on him.


 
We're talking sumo wrestler size, perhaps a former sumo wrestler, coming at you fast. He's moving fast, your stationary, and your going down if he slams into you, physics takes over.


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## Carol (Jun 1, 2009)

Depends on the hellhole.  Urban environments by definition have a high population density.  Chances are I'm not alone out there and chances are I'm not the one he's looking for.  

If he's got enough space to come running at me fullspeed then it it ain't exactly downtown at rush hour so I would likely have room to move about myself.  If the threat continues, so would my response.   If the threat stopped, so would my resonse.

My first move would likely be getting off his centerline, one way or another.


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## tellner (Jun 1, 2009)

OK, first why "an urban hellhole"? Won't you be smashed equally flat if it's a bucolic paradise or a soul-sucking suburban stripmall? There's subtext here. I'm not going to get any further into it but will leave that as an exercise to the reader. 

As for what I'd do, Steve Perry has the best answer: "There's a lot of things I might do. I don't rightly know which one I would do. The only way to know is to find out."


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## Empty Hands (Jun 1, 2009)

Get the hell out of the way!  Then do something fun while he destroys the air where you used to be.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 1, 2009)

Joab said:


> We're talking sumo wrestler size, perhaps a former sumo wrestler, coming at you fast. He's moving fast, your stationary, and your going down if he slams into you, physics takes over.


1st thing... you do realize how much distance a sumo sized person has to have to get running up to full speed don't you? Yes, I know large people can be extraordinarily quick but I've seen some that need some distance to cover to get that speed up. 
2nd probably the first thing that goes through my mind is "what the... ?" then second thing is to see how clumsy he's moving... how much time between the moment that I spot him and to where he and I will initiate contact and what exactly can I get away with. If I'm REALLY lucky I will spot him just in time to count 1001 and duck and stick my leg out to clip him at the shins and make him go flying, if not well. He'd better start in on me from the word get go because I'm not going to stand there and try to divine his intentions. Tiger/Dragon is what I'm going to try and imitate on his big ***. Scratching clawing going for his eyes and other vitals including digging my fingers into the soft of his neck and trying to grab that artery and give it a twist yank or whatever, he does NOT want me to get to anywhere vital on him... nor have me have access to my folder. 

3. What made you come up with this unlikely scenario? Has it happened to you?


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## Joab (Jun 1, 2009)

tellner said:


> OK, first why "an urban hellhole"? Won't you be smashed equally flat if it's a bucolic paradise or a soul-sucking suburban stripmall?


 
Ok, forget the urban hell hole, but its in an area with concrete, nothing soft around you. "urban hellhole" comes from my experiences living in an urban hellhole years ago, an area known for it's crack cocaine. I nearly had my door kicked down by a crack addict once and my life threatened. I was attacked in that urban hellhole by another crack addict on the street. I now live in a rural area none of that has happened to me here...


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## Joab (Jun 1, 2009)

MA-CAver said:
			
		

> What made you come up with this unlikely scenario? Has it happened to you?


 
Unlikely scenario? I've spent weeks in Chattanooga, you hometown, you have your fair share of dregs of society there. Well, it's a scenario that scares the beejesus out of me quite frankly, I like your response, might work if your arms arn't pinned down by the maniac as you go slamming into the concrete. Than again, if you work quick you might keep that from happening.


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 1, 2009)

I draw my licensed .40 S&W Glock 27 and empty it in something like 1.5 seconds. If he is still running toward me have absorbing all that, I'll just reload and repeat with some head shots thrown in.

Did you think I was going to play fair?

Deaf


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## elder999 (Jun 1, 2009)

Well, I'm big, and, I'm told, more than a little _scary_ looking. This just isn't likely to happen if he doesn't know me. Odds are better that I'd be ambushed-_especially_ if he knows me. So he's obviously deranged, and doesn't know me from Adam. 

I've got wonder, though, if I see him coming, and have time to hear him establish his intentions, why I don't have time to:

a) Run. I'm good at that. Odds are good I'd outrun him, huge as he is.

b) Draw and shoot. He's said he's going to kill me, he's obviously deranged, and I do carry. I should think that with all the drawing and shooting I do I'd have him in my sights on "...a *kill*....."

c) Or, since I'm in an "urban hellhole" where I might not be legal to carry a pistol, , draw my knife (or pen! ) and , if it's the knife, cut him three ways.

d)KICK HIS KNEE, *HARD*. This one has worked every time I've had to, for over 30 years.....

e) Any of the above, depending upon circumstances, with a strong tendency towards "a" or "d'

f) Throw my arms wide, smile without showing any teeth, call him "brother," and disarm him with my winning personality and obvious innocence (this has, believe it or not, worked under the same sort of circumstances on more than one occasion...)

Yeah, I'll take  "e", with the usual "overkill" follow-through for "d" for  $500, Alex. :lol:


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## KenpoTex (Jun 2, 2009)

use the force...


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## Akira (Jun 2, 2009)

Grab him and turn him around and apply a chokehold until he passes out.  Then kick him in the balls.

If he's going to slam into me and push me up against a wall I'd elbow him in the head until he lets me go.


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## mook jong man (Jun 2, 2009)

Depends a bit how his arms are positioned , when he is running at me. Somebody that big and moving at that speed , you definitely want to get off the line of attack .

 If his arms are out , just before he gets to me I will step 45 degrees to the side , parry his arm , and elbow strike him somewhere along the side of his ribcage , preferably up near his armpit , then follow up as needed.

If his arms are down then I still step 45 degrees to the side , grab his shoulders and upper arm and do a round house knee into the bladder.
Then follow up with whatever is appropriate for the range and position of his body.


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## Joab (Jun 2, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> I draw my licensed .40 S&W Glock 27 and empty it in something like 1.5 seconds. If he is still running toward me have absorbing all that, I'll just reload and repeat with some head shots thrown in.
> 
> Did you think I was going to play fair?
> 
> Deaf


 
In this scenario there is no time to pull out your gun.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 2, 2009)

Joab said:


> In this scenario there is no time to pull out your gun.


 
I can draw my gun and/or my knife DAMN FAST. If there is no time for that, chances are I didnt see him coming in the first place and I'm already on the ground being killed. 

But for sake of argument, If he's running twords me, see... and I need time to draw my weapon I follow SOP and move offline and BACK UP. If there is a wall behind me and I cant back up, then HE'S screwed because if he's really Sumo-Sized AND moving that fast, well, His Mass + Speed will probably knock him out when his head hits that wall... 

Then, because I'm an evil prick, I'd break both his wrists and ankles while he was out, just to make him think about it when he wakes up.


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## Carol (Jun 2, 2009)

In the 7 years that I lived in downtown Boston, if I emptied my clip in to every wacko that yelled something unpleasant and was moving in my direction, I'd be in an orange jumpsuit at MCI-Framingham right now instead of a comfortable exurban apartment.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 2, 2009)

Joab said:


> minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? Do you side step him, perhaps trip him, use his force against him, let physics or gravity do the rest and watch him slam into the ground and than go the opposite direction of him FAST. Or do you hit him with some nifty blow into just the right nerve cluster and watch him collapse to your immense relief. Do you grab him and pull him down and put him in some BJJ hold that not even the Gracies could break out of. Or do you do something else. All opinions appreciated.


 
Sorry, Joab, this is not a reasonable scenario to be answered. You have put forth a situation where you see an attack coming, but then you have our options limited due to lack of time? Then you want us to give you our response to the attack? I'm afraid that cannot be done. The best you can hope to get from us here is a thought-out answer based on experience and training, but that is by no means a real answer. In the situation you propose, there is no time to "think things out". The only answer is to experience it and find out (as previously stated).

There is simply not enough information to give a realistic answer, all we have is a big guy charging at us... how are their arms? How far away are they? Are they coming in looking like they are going to grab, hit, or ram with their shoulder? How much room do you have to move? If I can't draw and shoot (far less likely here in Australia, in any case), do I have other weapons? Does he? Does he have friends? Do I? Are there witnesses? What are the surroundings? Are there buildings, or cars? Can you see where I'm going with this?

The only thing I can say is that our tactics dictate a certain type of response, as for the particular application of technique, well, who knows? The sad fact of these type of hypothetical "What if?" questions is that they often belie a deeper issue, which is one of fear. This is in and of itself not a bad thing, as fear and greed are probably the best motivators that exist (just watch any advertising for that), and can generate new ideas and concepts to deal with changing conditions. The problem comes in when you start focusing on these scary scenarios over gaining an understanding of the tactics and principles of your chosen art.

By training the principles, you will find that you won't have the exact answer for every exact situation, but you will have a guide, or template, which you can adapt ot fit each and every situation. If you focus on individual situations (as here), all you are really doing is limiting your understanding and wasting energy on the unpreparable and unknowable. Your ability to handle such frightening scenarios (to you, others may have other things that scare them) will come not from spending time and energy thinking about them. That will just leave you scared, not improve your confidence at handling yourself (which is what you will actually need). I don't want to get too much int the psychology here, but you are simply repeating a loop in your head based on being afraid and feeling you can't handle something, and that would need to change.

But, when all is said and done, this is also a very common thought process with most people, particularly martial artists, and most commonly with the less experienced or more fearful. So don't take anything I've said too harshly, it's all been quite gentle, really. And it's all just part of the growth process.


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## Stac3y (Jun 2, 2009)

Faint.


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## Nolerama (Jun 2, 2009)

Joab, this literally happened to me.

But I understand that there are mentally ill individuals out there who need more help that a butt-kicking.

Working as a bike guide in downtown STL, a guy approached me while I sat on my bike and snatched a pen out of my bike pants (the last time i'll ever wear a pen/sharp object in the open) and ice picked it, saying... of all things...

"Get my mom outta your pocket! I'll kill you!"

Threat? Yep. Crazy? Definitely.

For all intents and purposes, yes, he could have stabbed me. Yes, I could have escalated force and snapped him down and beat the ever-loving crap out of him.

But people in any "right" mind don't really do that. Even in what you call "urban hellholes" (As a "city snob" I find the term slightly insulting, but especially so coming from you).

I didn't hurt the guy. I made space between myself and the guy, using my bike, t-rexed my arms, opened my hands and used a calm, but forceful voice and said "Buddy, please don't do that. You need help? Want some food? You've got it. Besides, there are two coppers over there that would rather be with their families on Thanksgiving and wouldn't like taking you in. Want that? Put the pen down, and I'll get you someplace warm and maybe some soup. Good? Good."

When I got him to a shelter (two steps behind on an angle with my bike between us... made some spastic small talk... nice guy... just kind of nuts) one of the workers was happy to see him. The guy was certainly off his meds, and went missing for a few days. He got a hot cup of soup and a warm place to stay for the night.

It was a win-win in my book.

I'm not going out of my way to hurt anyone. Especially the downtrodden who live in the "urban hellholes" you look down upon. In the end, they're human beings with their own problems. You can look at a person like that as a human being, while being fully capable of defending yourself.


You scenario is unrealistic, and implies that you are looking for a chance for violence. I suggest getting your mind out of these scenarios and possibly finding your own answers in your training, and possibly competition.


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## searcher (Jun 2, 2009)

All I can say for myself, is he had better be moving very fast.    I tend to be quick on the draw from concealment.     If I don't have time to draw, I most likely have enough time to get hit and hope I don't get hurt.

That is, ME get hit, not him.


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## Flea (Jun 2, 2009)

I live in a neighborhood with a major crack problem.  I haven't been rushed at (yet,) but I've been harassed and followed down the street more than once.

If someone charged at me, my options would be pretty limited.  I would almost certainly have my elderly dog with me, so my first step would be dropping the leash for his safety.  After that?  Evasive action, while shouting _*FIRE FIRE FIRE*_.  I'm pretty small and a MA novice; there's no shame in acknowledging one's limitations.  Far better to work with them by turning the Olive Oyl routine to one's advantage.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jun 2, 2009)

Joab said:


> minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? Do you side step him, perhaps trip him, use his force against him, let physics or gravity do the rest and watch him slam into the ground and than go the opposite direction of him FAST. Or do you hit him with some nifty blow into just the right nerve cluster and watch him collapse to your immense relief. Do you grab him and pull him down and put him in some BJJ hold that not even the Gracies could break out of. Or do you do something else. All opinions appreciated.


Sidestep and get a picture of who might be behind me that this guy might be after, while being ready to use his inertia to keep him going in the direction he is already heading and move myself in the opposite.  

All while singing Spinal Tap, 'Living in a HELL HOLE.... don't want to live in no HELL HOLE, get me away from this HELL HOLE!'

Daniel


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## dancingalone (Jun 2, 2009)

I turn off my XBox 360?


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## Joab (Jun 2, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> In the 7 years that I lived in downtown Boston, if I emptied my clip in to every wacko that yelled something unpleasant and was moving in my direction, I'd be in an orange jumpsuit at MCI-Framingham right now instead of a comfortable exurban apartment.


 
We aqre talking about ahuge maniac runnig at you full speed, forthing at the mouth screaming, "I'm going to kill you!" He's not just yelling at you, impact is immininent. Most likely I would die in this scenario, which is why it scares me.


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## Joab (Jun 2, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Sorry, Joab, this is not a reasonable scenario to be answered. You have put forth a situation where you see an attack coming, but then you have our options limited due to lack of time? Then you want us to give you our response to the attack? I'm afraid that cannot be done. The best you can hope to get from us here is a thought-out answer based on experience and training, but that is by no means a real answer. In the situation you propose, there is no time to "think things out". The only answer is to experience it and find out (as previously stated).
> 
> There is simply not enough information to give a realistic answer, all we have is a big guy charging at us... how are their arms? How far away are they? Are they coming in looking like they are going to grab, hit, or ram with their shoulder? How much room do you have to move? If I can't draw and shoot (far less likely here in Australia, in any case), do I have other weapons? Does he? Does he have friends? Do I? Are there witnesses? What are the surroundings? Are there buildings, or cars? Can you see where I'm going with this?
> 
> ...


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## Joab (Jun 2, 2009)

Daniel Sullivan said:


> Sidestep and get a picture of who might be behind me that this guy might be after, while being ready to use his inertia to keep him going in the direction he is already heading and move myself in the opposite.
> 
> All while singing Spinal Tap, 'Living in a HELL HOLE.... don't want to live in no HELL HOLE, get me away from this HELL HOLE!'
> 
> Daniel


 
I'm amazed so many make such a fuss over the phrase "urban hell hole" I have lived in an urban hell hole, they arn't pleasant. Forget the urban hell hole picture something else to your liking, no offense to anyone living in a big city. I liked your ideas Daniel, and humor, my urban hell hole words were meant for others who found this phrase so offensive, nothing like this ever happened in the suburbs and small towns I have lived in, the big city YES!


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## Sukerkin (Jun 2, 2009)

I have to confess that given the parameters of the scenario the most likely thing I would do is point, shout very loudly "Your flies are undone!", try to step off line as he came past and run as fast as I could in the direction he came from.

I'm not fighting huge, insane, fellows without the benefit of my katana .


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 2, 2009)

Joab said:


> In this scenario there is no time to pull out your gun.


 
Joab,

I think if I have time to side-step then I have time to draw. Hip/retention shooting can be done, including reaction time, in a second or less (you don't bring the gun past the belt buckle region when you fire.) And considering he is charging, he will be well within 12 ft. So accuracy will be no problem.

Now if he suprised you and your first warning is you see him running toward you, well that changes the OODA loop. But in scenario said he yelled. This is where the tactic, "moving off the 'X'" comes in. You move in an oblique while drawing (and firing.) It's done in one motion.

As long as you are well practiced it will work. And multiple .40s hit pretty hard.

Deaf


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## searcher (Jun 2, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> In the 7 years that I lived in downtown Boston, if I emptied my clip in to every wacko that yelled something unpleasant and was moving in my direction, I'd be in an orange jumpsuit at MCI-Framingham right now instead of a comfortable exurban apartment.


 

Clip?    Do you carry an old M1 Garand?    Girl that would be scary as all get out.verkill:


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## Carol (Jun 2, 2009)

searcher said:


> Clip?    Do you carry an old M1 Garand?    Girl that would be scary as all get out.verkill:




Yeah, but no one, I say no one, ever messes with me.


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## celtic_crippler (Jun 2, 2009)

Step up the circle and watch him run past. Then call the CDC and inform them that there's a possible rabies outbreak.


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## Ronin74 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'd imagine that if there was time to sidestep and trip him, then pulling out a firearm wouldn't be out of the question either, but for the sake of the OP, I'd opt for moving out of the way and either tripping him or letting run into a wall, whichever would take him out or off his feet. Then if he were still awake, maybe I'd bash his head with some random object so he'd be out of it.


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2009)

Joab said:


> We aqre talking about ahuge maniac runnig at you full speed, forthing at the mouth screaming, "I'm going to kill you!" He's not just yelling at you, impact is immininent. Most likely I would die in this scenario, which is why it scares me.



Most likely, I wouldn't.  Which is why it doesn't scare me.

Good luck with your training.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 3, 2009)

Hi Joab,



Joab said:


> Yes, it does seem very clear in your mind. That was my point, really, the specific scenario comes from your mind, and your imagination. This is something that scares you. This is why I said that spending time focusing on something that scares you is not the most productive way to approach your training[/COLOR].
> 
> You walking down the street, you hear and than see some huge behemoth coming at you full speed, you have no time to think, only react.
> 
> ...


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## Daniel Sullivan (Jun 3, 2009)

Joab said:


> I'm amazed so many make such a fuss over the phrase "urban hell hole" I have lived in an urban hell hole, they arn't pleasant. Forget the urban hell hole picture something else to your liking, no offense to anyone living in a big city. I liked your ideas Daniel, and humor, my urban hell hole words were meant for others who found this phrase so offensive, nothing like this ever happened in the suburbs and small towns I have lived in, the big city YES!


Suburbia gets ribbed by city dwellers and folks in more rural areas, cities by suburbanites and rural dwellers, and rural areas by city dwellers and suburbanites.  I figure it is harmless and we can all look at the factors that contribute to whatever stereotyps exist about our regional dwelling choice.  

We suburbanites are considered wasteful, boring, and conformist.  And I can easily look around my area and see why, thus I take no offense when people point it out.

Daniel


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## Deaf Smith (Jun 3, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Yeah, but no one, I say no one, ever messes with me.


 
Carol,

If it's a Garand, just FIX BAYONET! Use it as a pike. No need to waste good ought six ammo.

Deaf


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2009)

Deaf Smith said:


> Carol,
> 
> If it's a Garand, just FIX BAYONET! Use it as a pike. No need to waste good ought six ammo.
> 
> Deaf



Plus effective use of the bayonet means never having to say you're...........filling out all the paperwork the BPD requires for any sort of discharge of a firearm within city limits.


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## BLACK LION (Jun 5, 2009)

not a reasonable scenario to assess but I can combine it with the comments and make something from it....

The first mistake is allowing your worst fears to dictate your life or death.... I see too much voodoo power and mystical magic adorned upon raging drug crazed lunatics or some psycho wielding a machete or a sub machine gun.... Far too often do I see people mentally-verbally and physically sign thier own death warrant due to thier fears or just plain ignorance to the simple principles of combating a threat.... If you have no faith then what do you expect the outcome to be... you cannot posess any true skill without faith.... 

all you have before you is flesh and bone ... thats it. 
wreck it or dont... thats your choice... injure them or help them injure yourself... your choice... those are the options.... might as well supply the duct tape , chloroform, gag and car keys while your at it... maybe help him kidnap a couple others along the way to the secondary crime scene... 

cmon. 


When faced with a bonafide threat they must get 0% consideration...regardless of their prowess.... 0%... means you give them nothing ... BUT YOU TAKE EVERYTHING... if you cant establish that in your mind and your heart first then you shouldnt even consider combat or battle of conflict or anything relative.... 

You will never find me making any excuses that puts the odds in the favor of the enemy... regardless if they are armed to the teeth or a rabid grizzly bear... you will find me showing no quarter on any and evey plane...


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## Joab (Jun 5, 2009)

Well, 
Chris, as to why I kept putting myself in dangerous situations, I had bills to pay. It' s more dangerous being homeless. Quite frankly, my cart pushing job is more dangerous than any of my security jobs present and past, I've lost count of how many times I've almost been run over by a car while cart pushing in a huge Walmart parking lot.


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## searcher (Jun 5, 2009)

Would you all stop talking about my hometown?    It is bad enough as it is.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 6, 2009)

Joab said:


> Well,
> Chris, as to why I kept putting myself in dangerous situations, I had bills to pay. It' s more dangerous being homeless. Quite frankly, my cart pushing job is more dangerous than any of my security jobs present and past, I've lost count of how many times I've almost been run over by a car while cart pushing in a huge Walmart parking lot.


 
Cool. Please realise that I meant no offence or disrespect in my question, it just seems to me that there are other (potentially safer) methods of paying bills. So I was wondering why you would continue to pursue a career path that is focused on violence, rather than seeking out an alternative. As I said, that could be for good, healthy reasons, or for less-than-ideal reasons. If I am reading your answer correctly, it seems to be simply a matter of availability for yourself, yes?

I have tremendous respect for those who place themselves in harms way for the sake of others, however, if the reasons came from a place of ego or a sense of power, then that respect would have been lessened. I am happy to hear that that appears not to be the case here.


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## Joab (Jun 6, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Cool. Please realise that I meant no offence or disrespect in my question, it just seems to me that there are other (potentially safer) methods of paying bills. So I was wondering why you would continue to pursue a career path that is focused on violence, rather than seeking out an alternative. As I said, that could be for good, healthy reasons, or for less-than-ideal reasons. If I am reading your answer correctly, it seems to be simply a matter of availability for yourself, yes?
> 
> I have tremendous respect for those who place themselves in harms way for the sake of others, however, if the reasons came from a place of ego or a sense of power, then that respect would have been lessened. I am happy to hear that that appears not to be the case here.


 
Right now, there the only jobs I can get. Times are tough right now.


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2009)

elder999 said:
			
		

> Throw my arms wide, smile without showing any teeth, call him "brother," and disarm him with my winning personality and obvious innocence (this has, believe it or not, worked under the same sort of circumstances on more than one occasion...)







Nolerama said:


> Joab, this literally happened to me.
> 
> But I understand that there are mentally ill individuals out there who need more help that a butt-kicking.
> 
> ...


In my experience, this approach has worked well in many situations where it's been me facing multiple guys looking to get to a teen standing behind me. I've found most people aren't looking for violence, they're looking for something else and think violence is the only way to get it. When presented with an alternative, and my ego is left out of it, things have generally calmed down rapidly.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jun 6, 2009)

Joab said:


> minding your own business, when suddenly, a huge, fast moving man comes at you running at full steam, frothing at the mouth yelling "I'm going to kill you!" You have no time to run, no time to hide, no time to pull out a gun, no time to do anything except react FAST or get slammed into by this seemingly insane or drug crazy behemoth baring down on you fast! What do you do? .


 
Stop him.


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