# Stainless Steel Blades?



## Cobra (Jun 1, 2004)

My first sword I ever collected was a Long Gladius made of 440 stainless steel. Since then I have been collecting swords made of only carbon steel (two katanas, one chinese broadsword, one rapier, and one standard longsword).

My question is, why are stainless steel blades considered not to be good blades? From what I hear, stainless steel blades from Toledo, Spain are pretty good. But many say that stainless steel isn't a real blade. Why is that? What is the difference between stainless steel and carbon steel?


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## someguy (Jun 1, 2004)

It has another metal in the alloy.  I think thats right.  I dunno really though some one else probabl will say for sure.


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 1, 2004)

Because stainless steel is too brittle to be used for swords.  It's pretty much that simple.  When they come into contact with anything too hard, they break.   I take it you haven't seen the Home Shopping Network video, where the sales guy whacks one on the table, not even all that hard, and it snaps with the point coming back to stab the guy in the stomach.  

They're cheap crap.  Period.  Good for making wall hanging replicas, useless for anything else.


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## theletch1 (Jun 1, 2004)

HSN clip 
Here's the video clip that CM was talking about. Scroll down the page to the "Wanna buy a katana". Stainless is good for kitchen knives but not so good for a sword blade...of course, whacking ANY blade on the table is not a good idea.


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## Nikolas P. (Jun 2, 2004)

The higher a blade's carbon-content is, the more durable it will be, and the more care it will need.

The lower a blade's carbon-content is, the more brittle it will be, and will need less care.


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## someguy (Jun 2, 2004)

Care as in cleaning type of care or what?


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 2, 2004)

The cleaning ritual I go through on my Swordstore shinken(7007 if you're curious), is to first wipe all the old oil off with a dry piece of rice paper, then I tap uchiko powder all over the blade.  Next I wipe off the uchiko powder with rice paper, and then use a seperate piece of lint free coth to cover the blade in a layer of choji oil.  

This gets done after everytime I train with the blade, upwards of 5 times a week.  If you are just storing a blade you can perform basically the same cleaning regimen, and then put on a thicker coat of oil, and it will be good for probably 3 to 6 months or so as long as it is kept stored in a saya or shira-saya and depending on local humidity conditions.

Stainless steel you can hang on a wall with the blade exposed it and it will remain in it's original condition almost indefinitely.


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## someguy (Jun 2, 2004)

Man thats alot of work.


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 2, 2004)

It's that or it rusts.  Still it's just another part of class.


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## Phil Elmore (Jun 3, 2004)

All steel can rust.  Carbon is present in all steel (it was what makes iron steel) but the heat treat is just as important as the composition when considering a functional sword blade.  The alloy that makes steel _stainless_ is Chromium.  Greater than 10-13% Chromium content is considered stainless steel.  The problem is that Chromium weakens the steel even as it prevents corrosion.  Stainless steel is NOT suitable for functional sword blades.


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## OULobo (Jun 3, 2004)

Stainless has two primary purposes, medical and decorative, both because it resists corrosion. Carbon is the adds strength and malibility to the metal.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 3, 2004)

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> The cleaning ritual I go through on my Swordstore shinken(7007 if you're curious), is to first wipe all the old oil off with a dry piece of rice paper, then I tap uchiko powder all over the blade.  Next I wipe off the uchiko powder with rice paper, and then use a seperate piece of lint free coth to cover the blade in a layer of choji oil.
> 
> This gets done after everytime I train with the blade, upwards of 5 times a week.  If you are just storing a blade you can perform basically the same cleaning regimen, and then put on a thicker coat of oil, and it will be good for probably 3 to 6 months or so as long as it is kept stored in a saya or shira-saya and depending on local humidity conditions.
> 
> Stainless steel you can hang on a wall with the blade exposed it and it will remain in it's original condition almost indefinitely.



Charles, I thought you were only supposed to powder the blade if it came in contact with something like oil from human skin, or exposed to a silly amount of water/moisture... At least my book "Care and Maintenance of the Japanese Sword" reads that way? Is that incorrect?  I don't train with it regularly, so I just remove the old oil, Inspect the blade, and then re-oil it... about once a month.  Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I was wondering... should I powder it all the time?


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## someguy (Jun 3, 2004)

Maybe there should be a topic on blade care.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=231835#post231835


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 5, 2004)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Charles, I thought you were only supposed to powder the blade if it came in contact with something like oil from human skin, or exposed to a silly amount of water/moisture... At least my book "Care and Maintenance of the Japanese Sword" reads that way? Is that incorrect?  I don't train with it regularly, so I just remove the old oil, Inspect the blade, and then re-oil it... about once a month.  Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I was wondering... should I powder it all the time?


I'm guessing your book was written by a collector, rather than a practitioner.  The skin, and thus oils, of my left hand come into contact with the mune and the hi on a fairly regular basis during practice.  So I have to clean it everytime I use it.  It doesn't take much more than condensation, much less a drop, for a blade to begin to rust without oil.  In more humid climates, you will have to use uchiko more often.  

If you aren't seeing the trace amounts of black looking corrosion on your blade, then whatever your doing now is probably sufficient.  I wouldn't worry about it.  Your routine is working.   If you do start seeing the little black powdery looking stuff starting to form, then use the uchiko a little more often till it subsides or starts to fade away.

Do a google search for "Richard Stein's Japanese Sword Index" for more information than you ever wanted to know about Japanese swords.


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