# Sparing: Float lke a brick.....??



## TheOriginalName (Aug 19, 2007)

Hey there - 

The style i train in has a great mix of traditional style martial arts (based upon karate) and freestyle. 
I tend to pick up the traditional stuff relatively easy - i find the intensity required "relaxing" .....
My problem though is that when it comes to freestyle sparing i feel heavy and slow. I'm a relatively small guy (5'10'' and about 70kg) but when i'm sparing i feel heavy and slow.

So what can i do to make it more like "float like a butterfly" instead of "sink like a brick"??

Cheers


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## Steel Tiger (Aug 19, 2007)

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that Karate, the basis of your art's traditional component, does not operate on the 'float like a bee' theory but on the 'strong and certain as a mountain' idea.  By this I mean the stances and movements are suited to maintaining balance and strength which is not necessarily compatable with lightness and speed.

The fact that you seem to pick this stuff easily will ultimately be beneficial when you spar.  The feeling of heaviness will go away as you come to a better understanding of your movement.  The traditional gives you balance and strength which will benefit you in the long run.

Sorry if this doesn't give you an immediate fix to the problem, but I honestly think that it is a matter of perception and not really a problem at all.  Good Luck.


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## aplonis (Aug 19, 2007)

Are you keeping your muscles tense all the time? Are you trying to make like a coiled spring awaiting release? That doesn't work at all for speed. Try thinking loose and whippy. Only use resistance when there is something to resist. Move and strike out more like a whip than like a spring.

It takes force to hold back a spring. A whip has no force while at the ready. As a metaphor this works because that snap you get from a real whip? That's when the end breaks the sound barrier.

It's just a metaphor, of course. But think, that force it takes to hold back a spring has to unclench before the spring can move. Your muscles are doing just like that...fighting each other while you hold them clenched. It's wasting energy and building up fatigue toxins. Both those effects make you slower. Start from a relaxed but ready condition. Think of wet string waiting to snap out.

Practice breaking boards without any windup, no sighting, no practice alignments. Just whip through them. Speed does it much more reliably than force.


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## Kosho Gakkusei (Aug 20, 2007)

Shorten your stances, keep your weight over the balls of your feet and open your hands.  A clinched fist will lock your ankles.  Locked ankles will slow you down and shorten the distance you can cover with each movement.

Once your basics are well established you can take your stances and shorten them up.  Wide stances will lower you center of gravity.  This will make you more stable and grounded but slows you down because you will be fighting gravity to move - you will have to move up before you can go forward or back.

_Don Flatt


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## TheOriginalName (Aug 21, 2007)

Kosho Gakkusei said:


> Shorten your stances, keep your weight over the balls of your feet and open your hands. A clinched fist will lock your ankles. Locked ankles will slow you down and shorten the distance you can cover with each movement.
> 
> _Don Flatt


 
I like that...i didn't know that. I've currently been keeping my fists clenched, so i'll give that a go.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions. 
I do understand that some things just take time to get... and this might just be one of those times, so i'll just keep training. 
What's the worst that happens?? I end up fighting like a mountain goat!!
(insert canned laughter here).

Cheers all


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## qi-tah (Aug 21, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> I like that...i didn't know that. I've currently been keeping my fists clenched, so i'll give that a go.
> 
> Thanks everyone for their suggestions.
> I do understand that some things just take time to get... and this might just be one of those times, so i'll just keep training.
> ...


 
Some great suggestions here. I would also add, try to move off line as much as you can, don't worry about doing more probing and defending than commiting (be patient), and try to enter into yr opponent's attacks without anticipating. By that last, i mean concentrate more on yr opponents hips and elbows - their attacks will be telegraphed earlier from these sources than they are from the hands or feet. The sooner you can see the attack forming, the quicker you will be able to react and counter.

Hope this helps


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## Odin (Aug 21, 2007)

its very important to learn all techinques before you start sparring, alot of people as soon as they do a martial art ( especially ones that are used for compititon ) want to start sparring straight away.

Sparing is basically a light form of actually sparring so just like it takes years to become a good fighter it will take years to be able to spar good.

I wouldnt worry about it being good on your feet takes time and pratice and it will come to you slowly.

Dont Try and Rush it bro, one of the best parts of martial arts is learning and watching your devolpment over the years.


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## Em MacIntosh (Aug 21, 2007)

Strengthen your muscles, espeacially the legs.  Find the right comfortable stance for you.  Eat a light diet full of carbohydrates before class.  Practice "flexing" your adrenalin (I don't know how to describe it but it's like making yourself anxious)  Have your instructor or sparring partner force you to react with "emergency speed" by piling on the pressure.  Spend the first five minutes of class on a snare drum.  Practice some standing breakdancing (if it's not too far off) to learn how to change position and shift your weight quickly (or you can just practice footwork but after awhile it gets boring).  Get a rhythm but make sure you change it up and keep it unpredictable (broken rhythm) otherwise you get jammed.


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## bluemtn (Aug 21, 2007)

Try to stay on the balls of your feet (at least to a certain degree- not like on your tip- toes), and try to relax your muscles some.  Tense muscles will give that sluggish feeling, and tire certain muscle groups more.  Being (relatively) calm will also help you mentally.  Also, move around!  It helps you feel more agile.


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## still learning (Aug 21, 2007)

Hello, Everyone is giving you the right advice!    The key is be on the ball of your feet.

You should be able to slide a sheet of paper under the heels. 

Be aware of your center,  as you move you should always be balance and NOT leaning  in any direction.  (your center is 2 inches below your belly button and two in in side of you.)

Try dropping your stance one inch or two, you should be relax and more flexable by doing this.

Good luck and Aloha


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## Bumblebee (Aug 22, 2007)

I bounce on the balls of my feet.  I don't do a full-on jump or anything, but a light bounce.  It helps me react faster and keep a rhythm going.


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## Kacey (Aug 22, 2007)

Bumblebee said:


> I bounce on the balls of my feet.  I don't do a full-on jump or anything, but a light bounce.  It helps me react faster and keep a rhythm going.


The problem with keeping a rhythm going is that if you use the same one too long, a good fighter will key in on your rhythm and be able to hit you.


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 22, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> Hey there -
> 
> The style i train in has a great mix of traditional style martial arts (based upon karate) and freestyle.
> I tend to pick up the traditional stuff relatively easy - i find the intensity required "relaxing" .....
> ...


Good posture will help. Pay attention to not leaving your head where it is in space when you do foot maneuvers... ie take it and your butt with you.
Sean


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## Bumblebee (Aug 23, 2007)

Kacey said:


> The problem with keeping a rhythm going is that if you use the same one too long, a good fighter will key in on your rhythm and be able to hit you.


 
And if I don't keep a rhythm, I'll still get hit.  I prefer to keep a rhythm going, whenever I'm sparring or even just working on kicks.  Everything just seems easier for me.  On using the same rhythm too long, I'm still kind of unsure what you mean.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 23, 2007)

Get a jump rope and have at it.  Look into Pyometrics as well. Got to learn to be light on your feet for sparring.  Karate is largely developed around the self-defence idea of end it quick and hard, which does not always cross over well too sparring, which is a drawn out fight.


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## Kacey (Aug 23, 2007)

Bumblebee said:


> And if I don't keep a rhythm, I'll still get hit.  I prefer to keep a rhythm going, whenever I'm sparring or even just working on kicks.  Everything just seems easier for me.  On using the same rhythm too long, I'm still kind of unsure what you mean.



If you fall into a rhythm long enough for your opponent to pick up on it, then you can be hit very easily at certain points in your bounce; also, it makes it easier for your opponent to guess when you're going to strike, and be ready to dodge, block, or make a preemptive strike.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 23, 2007)

Steel Tiger said:


> Over the years I have come to the conclusion that Karate, the basis of your art's traditional component, does not operate on the 'float like a bee' theory but on the 'strong and certain as a mountain' idea. By this I mean the stances and movements are suited to maintaining balance and strength which is not necessarily compatable with lightness and speed.
> 
> The fact that you seem to pick this stuff easily will ultimately be beneficial when you spar. The feeling of heaviness will go away as you come to a better understanding of your movement. The traditional gives you balance and strength which will benefit you in the long run.
> 
> Sorry if this doesn't give you an immediate fix to the problem, but I honestly think that it is a matter of perception and not really a problem at all. Good Luck.


 

I think you have hit upon something that I have pointed out in various threads in the past, here and on kenpotalk.  

Often, it is not a good idea to cherrypick techniques from different arts, and then try to mix them together and expect them to work.  It sort of sounds like this MAY be what is happening.

Different arts have different philosophical approaches to fighting, and their foundation, their techniques and methods are built upon that philosophy.  If you try to use certain techniques working off the wrong kind of foundation, those techniques will not work.  If you are using a traditional karate method as your base, but then trying to fight with a different style, perhaps more like a boxer, they just don't really work together.  The foundation, the techniques, and the philosophy of combat between boxing and karate are different enough that you cannot build a house out of boxing techniques upon a karate foundation.  

It's best to keep your styles separate from each other, so you don't have this kind of problem.  It's ok to train more than one style, but in training keep them separate and don't mix them up.  Taken out of proper context, nothing will work properly.


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## Bumblebee (Aug 24, 2007)

Kacey said:


> If you fall into a rhythm long enough for your opponent to pick up on it, then you can be hit very easily at certain points in your bounce; also, it makes it easier for your opponent to guess when you're going to strike, and be ready to dodge, block, or make a preemptive strike.


 
If you fall into a rhythm and it's working, I won't change it unless I think that my opponent is catching on.  I mean if you're a good fighter, you'll know when something isn't working, sometimes, not always, but sometimes, you'll even have a coach that'll tell you when something's not working.  I still prefer to bounce and get into a rhythm.  Let it work for as long as it works and as soon as you feel it's not working anymore, change it up.


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## whitetiger2001 (Sep 24, 2007)

TheOriginalName said:


> I like that...i didn't know that. I've currently been keeping my fists clenched, so i'll give that a go.
> 
> Thanks everyone for their suggestions.
> I do understand that some things just take time to get... and this might just be one of those times, so i'll just keep training.
> ...


 
   Be careful of  open hands though because it takes time and practice to develop  enough strnegth in your open handed strikes and blocks to keep from getting you fingers broken.  I saw a BB have that happen to him in a tournement because he didn't have enough energy in his hand and caught a kick and bent his fingers almost to the backof his hand.  It dies work but be careful.


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## thardey (Sep 26, 2007)

The higher your center of gravity, the faster you will be.

The lower your center of gravity, the stronger you will be.

Also, to move quickly _take short steps!_ It's counterintuitive, one would think that longer strides will move you faster, but it's not true, many short steps will make you faster in sparring than fewer long steps.

If you are going for more strength, then reverse the process, and go for long, low movements (traditional).

One isn't better than the other, it's just good to know when to apply strength or speed.


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## TheOriginalName (Sep 26, 2007)

Well i'm glad to report that last week at training something finally clicked...

We were doing some point sparring work - we normally don't focus on this but there was a tournament on the upcoming weekend - and whilst we were doing a particular drill something just clicked in my brain and i found myself feeling really light on my feet. 

I'm under no illusions, i've still plenty of work to do but it was just nice to feel like i was making some progress. 

Thanks for all the tips - they have been useful


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## Auvic (Nov 9, 2007)

whitetiger2001 said:


> Be careful of open hands though because it takes time and practice to develop enough strnegth in your open handed strikes and blocks to keep from getting you fingers broken. I saw a BB have that happen to him in a tournement because he didn't have enough energy in his hand and caught a kick and bent his fingers almost to the backof his hand. It dies work but be careful.


 
Note about this:

Keeping your hands open to spar with works just fine...if you remember that it's much easier to break an open hand than a fist, like White said.
But the other thing to remember is that if you're going to be using an open palm, try and gauge the force of the kick before you move your hand into position:
How hard is it?
*Can* I block it?
Would it be better to block/deflect/redirect/catch it?

If you keep those things in mind, it takes quite a bit of the danger out of using open hands to spar.


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