# Information about this organization



## Wolverine (Jun 8, 2004)

I am interested in learning kempo karate.  There is a school close to me that teaches Dragon Kempo.  Can anyone tell me about this style and whether it is authentic or not.  They have their own organization and website.  Here is their url.http://www.idka.org/about/       I really appreciate the help.


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## mhouse (Jun 8, 2004)

Well, I did a Google search and was able to find the homepage of his school.

http://www.geocities.com/defensive_arts_academy/

And I found one of the schools of one of the 4th degree black belts

http://www.dragonkenpo.us

However, I did not see anything about the history or lineage of this school. 

I offer no opinion about the organization because I don't know anything about them. I hope these links help you in your search for answers.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 8, 2004)

Its either a Tracy or Chinese Kempo lineage, because they aren't too informative about where they come from on that site. Normaly they would have provided a lineage.
Sean


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## Zoran (Jun 9, 2004)

Wolverine said:
			
		

> I am interested in learning kempo karate. There is a school close to me that teaches Dragon Kempo. Can anyone tell me about this style and whether it is authentic or not. They have their own organization and website. Here is their url.http://www.idka.org/about/       I really appreciate the help.


 I do believe, but I may be wrong, that this group comes from the Ed Hutchinson lineage. A while back Ed Hutchinson was teaching his own system of Kenpo Karate. If I remeber correctly, he was also offering a home study course and gave out rank with the course. I do believe there was some controversy on that.

 Anyways, this group is most likely from that lineage. Where and how they recieved their training may be in question. The old site for Dragon Kenpo Karate Academy is still around, although the home study course is gone. Mr. Hutchinson once mentioned that he keeps it up for the free email accounts _(side note: he was also a little "miffed" with me at the time)_.



			
				http://www.idka.org/ said:
			
		

> Here's a Footnote:
> In the summer of 2000 the Dragon Kenpo Karate Association and the Dragon Kenpo Karate Academy closed down. This left the systems students without support. A group of Dragon Kenpo black belts have organized a new association to support the needs of Certified Instructors and Students who wish instruction in the Dragon Kenpo community.


 Which supports my speculations a bit. 

 Mr. Hutchinson's lineage: http://www.dragonkenpo.com/family.htm


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jun 9, 2004)

I bought a Dragon Kenpo video off of eBay because the instructor claims lineage from my old instructor (Jay T. Will).  This is just my opinion, but I couldn't see much _Kenpo _ in Dragon Kenpo.  Seemed more like boxing with some kicks and takedowns.  Again, just my opinion.


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## Wolverine (Jun 9, 2004)

Thanks guys:  you have really helped me out alot.


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## 8253 (Jun 9, 2004)

never heard of that particualar school


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## Han-Mi (Jun 10, 2004)

I had an email conversation with a Dragon Kenpo instructor. He was quite anonying, but seemed like a sound instructor. As for his art, I know that he tought that kicks were pretty much pointless, Though he admitted he used them often, and he also didn't teach much on locks. So it sounds like what Randy said.


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## Zoran (Jun 10, 2004)

Han-Mi said:
			
		

> I had an email conversation with a Dragon Kenpo instructor. He was quite anonying, but seemed like a sound instructor. As for his art, I know that he tought that kicks were pretty much pointless, Though he admitted he used them often, and he also didn't teach much on locks. So it sounds like what Randy said.


 My only concern is what sort of instruction these people received. As a general rule, always ask who their instructor was, and who their instructor's instructor was. Too many people out there claiming all kind of things. 

 There is more too being an instructor than knowing how to punch or kick. Being able to do a thing does not necessarily mean they know the why's or how's in a way that can be passed on to a student.


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## Han-Mi (Jun 10, 2004)

Zoran said:
			
		

> My only concern is what sort of instruction these people received. As a general rule, always ask who their instructor was, and who their instructor's instructor was. Too many people out there claiming all kind of things.
> 
> There is more too being an instructor than knowing how to punch or kick. Being able to do a thing does not necessarily mean they know the why's or how's in a way that can be passed on to a student.


That's why you sit down and talk to them for a while. Find out their philosophy.


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## Turner (Jul 12, 2004)

I apologize for taking so long in responding to this post. I haven't been around much.

I'm the founder of the International Dragon Kenpo Association, among a group of others.

Lineage in Dragon Kenpo will differ per each person. Dragon Kenpo isn't so much a system of combat, it's more a philosophy that emcompasses all systems. Dragon Kenpo was founded by Ed Hutchison, a student of Jay T. Will. The curriculum of Dragon Kenpo is used by only a few actual Dragon Kenpo students. I believe it was just a vehicle to convey a message rather than an attempt at being the ultimate martial art.

The philosophy of Dragon Kenpo is that there isn't any ultimate martial art. That the ultimate martial art is different for each person. I'm a Kenpo man. I love the principles and precepts of American Kenpo. Others in the system are more into the arts that are in their background... Hapkido, Taekwondo, Kung-Fu, Ryu-Kyu Kempo and what they teach reflects their preference. Dragon Kenpo is about cross training to develop that ultimate personal art but remaining away from the politics of most arts. In American Kenpo you will be shunned by 16-tech if you are a 24-Tech. Support is hard to come by. I've known instructors in other arts to kick their students out of class because they cross trained.

Dragon Kenpo is about martial artists of various backgrounds coming together basically to support one another. To share ideas and concepts without all of the politics involved in other martial arts. Honestly the IDKA is not large enough to do that well, but we're working on it.

Politics are still an issue though, even in the IDKA... Mostly about whether Hutchison's certificates should be validated. Rank is a difficult issue. I've been a student of over 30 different schools and each one has had different requirements for rank. In some it was all physical. Your technique had to be sharp and you had to know the curriculum, but you didn't know anything about why. Then there were some that taught all 'why' and no 'how.' I've seen 'legitimate' instructors promote students to black belt that I wouldn't even give a green belt to. I've seen green belts who I thought should be black belts. There is no standard. Rank is relative just like the ultimate martial art is relative.

I'm not sure if I can be clear on the purpose and intent of the IDKA. I know it will differ based on who you speak to just like Dragon Kenpo will differ based on who you speak to. My Dragon Kenpo is American Kenpo 24 tech system with emphasis on breaking it down into pure motion (Motion Kenpo) so that my student will be able to see how any art can have elements of all other arts within them. Other arts exist because of different egos, philosophies, different strategies and tactics being used. Why should we limit ourselves? Deny that those borders exist and see what levels you can realize.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at dragonkenpo@aol.com

Doug Turner


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## Mark Weiser (Jul 12, 2004)

I am glad your online. I wrote an email about 4 weeks ago to Dragon Kenpo IKDA and never got a response back???

Question on ranking, Membership, etc.... I was wondering what happened. 

Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser


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## Les (Jul 12, 2004)

Turner said:
			
		

> I'm the founder of the International Dragon Kenpo Association, among a group of others.



Are you saying you are the CO-FOUNDER of the IDKA, or that you have founded other associations? 



			
				Turner said:
			
		

> Dragon Kenpo isn't so much a system of combat, it's more a philosophy that emcompasses all systems.The curriculum of Dragon Kenpo is used by only a few actual Dragon Kenpo students. Dragon Kenpo is about cross training to develop that ultimate personal art but remaining away from the politics of most arts.



Could you please explain why it's called Dragon Kenpo then, as opposed to say, Dragon Martial Arts?



			
				Turner said:
			
		

> In American Kenpo you will be shunned by 16-tech if you are a 24-Tech.



This is not the case. I frequently work with Instructors who teach a different technique content in their syllabus. I have not been shunned by anyone.

Support is hard to come by. [/QUOTE]

Apart from my peers and higher ranks in my association, I benefit from a network of 'mentors' from other associations who are always willing to take the time to help me. In my experience support is related to who and how you ask, along with remembering to thank the person who helps you.



			
				Turner said:
			
		

> I've known instructors in other arts to kick their students out of class because they cross trained.



I too have experienced this, (once in 12 years of teaching), but it was not from a Kenpo school. A couple of my students cross train, and I don't have a problem with them doing it myself.

I hear there is a Dragon Kenpo Representative near me, but although invited he has yet to make it to my school or to any seminars. It's a shame, because he could probably answer my questions directly, plus we could work out together.

Les


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## Turner (Jul 12, 2004)

Unfortunately the IDKA website and my own personal website has been down for the past several weeks due to a change in ownership of the server the website is on. It's still not up. So if any messages were posted on the forum there or e-mails sent through the website, they would not have been recieved. My apologies!

   The IDKA is strange beast for an organization. It is a loose organization without a military-like structure. No matter the rank, we pretty much are equals trying to do a part.

   Ranking in the IDKA: If you wish to recieve rank (white through 2nd Black)through the IDKA you must talk to a board member. Each one will have different requirements based on their background. If you wish to obtain rank 3rd Black or above you contact Mr. Lacy who will require you to perform about 20 or so techniques from the curriculum your school uses.

   Membership in the IDKA: There are basically two types of membership, Instructor membership and Associate Membership. If you learned Dragon Kenpo from anyone then you can apply for Instructor membership. Cost for lifetime membership depends on the board member you go through as does what you get. Over all: you get a certificate saying cool I'm a member! and a subscription to the Dragon's Lair... a newsletter that hasn't been published in a year.. something I need to find out what is up with... and support from any of the board members or other Instructors and Associates that would be willing to work with you. Due to the small size of the IDKA activity isn't what it could be.

   The Name: I don't know why Mr. Hutchison called the system Dragon Kenpo. My guess is that he studied both American Kenpo and Tracy Kenpo along with some Kung-Fu and since Kenpo was what he was ranked in, that's what he chose to call it. Many people have fussed about it being called Dragon Kenpo because as it's been said, it don't look much like Kenpo. What does it look like? It looks like any martial art out there. Except that all that was presented in the origional curriculum were very basic techniques without any explaination. The "Kenpo" that is missing is the principles of American Kenpo... I'm in the process of writing a book that provides my insights into Dragon Kenpo that should maybe give it a feel as for what it should be called. But then if you talk to another board member they'll have a different perspective and it'll seem like Kung-Fu.

  My Role in the IDKA: In 2000 I did a ton of research online and gathered together as many Dragon Kenpo black belts that I could find. The Dragon Kenpo Karate Academy had basically gone belly up. I had hoped to create a structured organization to take it's place that would rewrite the curriculum and provide more of an 'ultimate martial art' but that isn't what the others wanted and so it didn't happen. So I formed the IDKA, but only co-founded what it is today. I'm currently the webmaster, board member and full time martial artist.

  Les: I guess each of our experiences are different when it comes to training and I admit that things have changed drastically over the past several years. Support-wise, the IDKA was formed to support mostly the Dragon Kenpo instructors who were real big on distance learning. Less than 2 years ago the whole concept was basically a no-no and no matter how good you were your black belt wasn't valid. Now it's still a little controversial among some, but all of the more well known instructors are starting to do it... Things have certainly changed.

   About the DK representative near you... I can't speak for him or her. I'm not sure who it is, but remember that they might not even practice Kenpo and it would be rare if they actually practiced Kenpo anything like American Kenpo. I believe only three or four of those that associate with Dragon Kenpo actually teach the American Kenpo curriculum. Most teach a curriculum that they've created from their experience in various arts. And there are those that are frauds... Just like with any martial artist. You need to sit down with them and listen to them talk and see them work on a mat before you commit to working under them. No matter how good the lineage there are always frauds and no matter how bad the lineage, there will always be the one or two especially talented ones.


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