# The first SYSTEMA thread



## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

There is no column for Systema so I am starting one. Are there any other people studying this art that want to talk about the System?

Last week at Vlads we talked about the traditional thoughts on stances and why they can be a hindering factor.


----------



## Richard S. (Apr 13, 2002)

what is Systema? ive never heard of it....


----------



## Jay Bell (Apr 13, 2002)

www.russianmartialart.com

I dig Systema lots.  I got interested in Systema about a year and a half ago.


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

It does go a long way in describign the art to someone looking for a description but really, if you want to know what it's about you need to feel it.


----------



## KumaSan (Apr 13, 2002)

I've seen a little bit from the videos (I think they were through TRS?) and it looks very interesting. How long have you been into it?


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KumaSan _
> *How long have you been into it? *



I don't know. I have been playing around with it for close to a year now when I sat down and worked it out the other day. Only recently have I become more serious about it though.


----------



## arnisador (Apr 13, 2002)

I'm certainly interested in hearing about it!


----------



## Klondike93 (Apr 13, 2002)

> if you want to know what it's about you need to feel it.



Gou's right, you can read about and see it on video, but if you want to know about it you have to feel it.  

I've only been doing it for about a month total time now, and I dig it. I still really dig kenpo, but this stuff is good  

Vladimir Vasiliev will be doing a seminar at Lee Wedlake's school in Ft. Myers Florida April 27 if anyone is near there. My instructor is flying out for it as both people are his instructors and is he jazzed! 


:asian:


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 14, 2002)

Who is your instructor? I may have seen him either at Vlad's or another seminar.

Vlad is the bomb baby. Mikhail is even crazier to watch. Systema is pretty kewl.

The other day when I was there he asked me how I was liking it. I said it was great although I have no idea what I am doing. he told me simply, "You will."

Now I know how many people first felt when they watched/met Mr. Parker.


----------



## arnisador (Apr 14, 2002)

How's the training in Systema? Rough? Lots of training injuries? Sorry if I'm off-base, but this is the impression I've had.


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 14, 2002)

The first thing many people see when they start are all these guys in military camo gear. It being a military art due to the Spetsnaz connection it attracts a lot of people into that sort of thing. So it's a large mental hurdle to get over but when you think about it, no more than walking into a dojo and seeing everyone in their Gi's.

His guys are VERY physical but it's a great system and art. Jaybacca once mentioned that it's weird how you don't feel like you're doing lots of hard work but at the end of class you're drenched in sweat and tired. It's deceptive how tough it can be.


----------



## Rob_Broad (Apr 14, 2002)

Gou

So far it is a good start to the thread, keep it going so the uneducated can getting more info.  What is a typical training session like?  What seperates it from all the other styles, etc?


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 14, 2002)

Systema bases it's movements on people. You won't catch them saying, "Be like the tiger/dragon" and all that. Once when Vlad was explaining an energy absorbing theory to me I said, "So I should be like water?" His response was "No. You are not water. You are not tiger or dragon. You are human being."

There is a pervasive idea of taking what your opponent gives you and using it to your advantage. 

Breathing is important. Remember when Martin was whacking me with a stick? The beathing is important.


----------



## arnisador (Apr 14, 2002)

What was the most surprising thing to you about Systema?


----------



## Klondike93 (Apr 14, 2002)

> Who is your instructor? I may have seen him either at Vlad's or another seminar.



My instuctor is Brad Scornavacco, you can read about him on his web site http://www.scornavacco.com/index.htm 



> The other day when I was there he asked me how I was liking it. I said it was great although I have no idea what I am doing. he told me simply, "You will."



I know how feel on that one.

Here is a brief note on what I've learned so far - how to breathe and most important to breathe. Learning body sensitivity, how they move what makes them fall down things like that. How to move your body while being stabbed at with a knife, a real sharp knife. Having a stick swung at you and your job is to move and not get hit. We did a drill where there were about 10 people and five or six knives (training ones) and you were told to start stabbing people and they had to disarm you while avoiding being stabbed themselves. So far it's pretty interesting stuff. 


:asian:


----------



## arnisador (Apr 14, 2002)

The strong emphasis on breathing is something I associate with internal Chinese arts, though all Oriental arts seem to have some of it. What's the Systema theory of breathing?


----------



## Klondike93 (Apr 14, 2002)

To quote my instructor, "you have to learn to breathe through your toes".

When he said this I looked at him like his hair was on fire. Then he showed me what he ment by it.  He had the whole class, about 10 people pile on top of me there by crushing me and making it real hard to breathe. He said " breathe through your toes", in other words, relax and focus some where else to regulate your breathing. Kind of worked, but really worked when they all got off of me.

He teaches to breathe normally and not like a tea pot (snorting type like boxers).


:asian:


----------



## tonbo (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey, Gou.....quick question for you:  Where can you get ahold of the videos for Systema?  I went over to the website, but couldn't pull up some of the stuff.  Layout was there, but I didn't get links to buy vids.  May be just me, I dunno.

Also, which video would you recommend?  I'm initially pretty amped about the knife video, but will consider any others that would be a "good one".

Thanks in advance!!

Peace--


----------



## GouRonin (Apr 30, 2002)

The website is being re-tooled. But the vids are available under merchandise. I purchased the knife defence one first and loved it.

If you read the Systema write up you will see which video won the "video of the year" award. That might be a good start too although I think it's the same video I am talking about.

When you e-mail him tell him _"Doug from London"_ sent you. I don't know if he'll give you a deal but who knows? More than likely he'll punch me. Ah ha ha ha!


----------



## Klondike93 (May 1, 2002)

Hey Gou, my instructor just got back from Florida where Vlad did a seminar at Lee Wedlakes school.

I asked him how it went and he starts laughing and lifts his shirt to show me one huge bruise on his abdomen. Then he says that Vlad used him to demonstrate breathing techniques on as he beat him with a stick across the abs.

Well, doppy me I ask him, what is it he did to you. He laughs again and grabs his stick, says raise your arms and breathe and hits me with the stick. OUCH!!! I think the point is forcing the pain some where else. Then we had a pretty cool class and he showed me the 3 levels of hitting - skin, muscle and internal.


:asian:


----------



## Roland (May 1, 2002)

I think of it as organ hitting, though internal is a good description too.
I myself found breathing through the lower body, hips especially for me, has made it a lot easier to to absorb punches. Though I have heard him say to breath though our feet several times.
   Oh yeah, when Vlad hit me with his stick, 3 times, I had 5 marks! All 5 were painfull.


----------



## GouRonin (May 1, 2002)

The stick shows you that your body knows how to breath on it's own and it's only for some reason we stry to stop it. I asked once if Vlad could show me how to avoid a certain strike, he said, _No. I cannot. But if I attack you with sword you will run and move like crazy man. You already know how to move and avoid."_ The breathing shows you that you already know how to cope with the pain and strike. It also brings you closer to removing the fear of the strike. A psychological issue

As for the 3 levels. I have had Vlad hit me and move an internal organ to show you how you _"Dance"_ to put it back into place. A penetrating strike. Last time I was down he was working on pressure point strike at the skin level. A skin strike.

There is so much that I don't grasp yet. I make it down 2-4 times a month and the more I go, the less I know.


----------



## Roland (May 1, 2002)

I remember the time he had you running around like a chicken, that was funny, and very destracting.

Someone once told me that the human body was not meant to ever be completely still. That we are in fact always moving in some way or other. He said that is the trouble with a lot of people and keeping balance. They become rigid, and force themseleves to try and stay still, which is very un-natural, and in fact leads them to losing balance instead.
 I think it is that way with breathing too. The only peple I know who do not breath, in fact the only people I know who are ever completely still, with no movement at all, are dead. 
 Breathing, should be very natural to us, and so should movement.
I love to watch children grapple, becasue they are naturals at it. They are so used to being so close to the ground, that they are very comfortable down there. Older we get, less time we get down, even to tie our shoes, so it becomes less familar, and harder for us to do anything down there comfortably.
 Same applies to any movement, we get older, and constrict, or condition ourseleves to become less than what we should be, and do less than we are really able to.
Everything Vlad has shown to me seems to be a step back to becoming more of who we really are. A postitve step to breathing and moving naturally.


----------



## GouRonin (May 2, 2002)

When he made me dance like the Scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz running from a broomstick on fire. Not only was it distracting to watch but it was rather disconcerting to have done to you. I have it on video tape as well and everytime I watch it I remember it well.

Oh if I only had a brain.


----------



## Roland (May 2, 2002)

It was metioned earlier, that with all the emphasis on breathing that Systema started to sound kinda like the Chinese arts in that regard.
 And while I think there is are similiarities there, I think the emphasis is still very different. I have some limited chinese breathing experience, Tai chi, and a Shaolin Breathing Set, but that is the extent of my knowledge there really, other than reading up on it.
 Maybe someone here, or someone from one of the Chinese arts listed could give us a break down, that way we can do a comparison.

Just an idea. Hard to compare something if there is nothing to compare it to, right?


----------



## Klondike93 (May 2, 2002)

I've been hit a few times sparring and all, some of hit pretty hard too. But when he hit me my stomach moved it was one interesting feeling.

One time he had the class pile on me so I could learn to breathe thru my toes, that was a first. But the thing I find the most interesting so far is the use of balance and learning to find where it's weakest on your opponent.


:asian:


----------



## arnisador (May 6, 2002)

At the WMAA camp *jaybacca72* showed me some systema. He did the hitting in the stomach in three directions as well as the sticks, and showed some techniques. It was interesting--certainly not what I would have expected.


----------



## GouRonin (May 6, 2002)

...you see Vlad.


----------



## Klondike93 (May 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *...you see Vlad. *



Be afraid, be wery, wery afraid    


Naw, I hear Vlads a pretty cool dude, just don't let him hit you  


:asian:


----------



## Roland (May 8, 2002)

.. you must ASK him to hit you.

You will feel very good afterwards.
NO joke! It is good stuff.


----------



## RobP (May 10, 2002)

The breathing I was taught in TCC was reverse diaphragmatic. As you breathe in the diaphragm pulls in and up , as you breathe out the dia. pushes down and out. This was mostly done in a slow, controlled place, while practicing your form or in static qigong postures. As you hit or pushed you always breathed out.

Systema breathing works from shallow breaths to deep breathing. It is worked in all sorts of positions, from "corpse" posture on the floor, through to the body being contorted and under pressure. Sometimes you breathe out on the exertion, sometimes you breathe in. Breathing is also taught as a method of pain control and as a psychological aid. Holding the breath (or "not breathing") is also pracitced in some exercises, both for strength and psychological training)

In short I've found the Systema methods to be more in depth and varied. The TCC method certainly gave me a strong diaphragm and the ability to slow and control the breath. I could also take a fair punch through that training - though not one of Vlad's or Mikhail's  ;-)


----------



## Roland (May 10, 2002)

And ignore my other post regarding comparing the breathing, seems like you have done so already.

Guess great minds think alike, and so do we.


----------



## GouRonin (Jan 24, 2003)

Just thought I would bring back this thread as I think it kicked @ss! Woo!


----------



## Roland (Jan 24, 2003)

Is it still the best, or has another thread taken that title?

Maybe we should have a match to see which thread kicks the most, the best & he biggest!!!


----------



## sweeper (Jan 25, 2003)

"if I attack you with sword you will run and move like crazy man."

that is a great quote..  is there anywhere where I can get a list of seminar locations?


----------



## GouRonin (Jan 25, 2003)

Go to http://www.russianmartialart.com and look up the listings.


----------



## Arthur (Jan 25, 2003)

For Vladimir seminars go to the site Gou Ronin mentioned, then click on the seminars link. I just put the new list up for 2003 last night.

To check on Seminars by affiliate instructors, go to http://www.russianmartialart.org/forum/phpBB2/

Then click on the Announcements section. there will be a list of various other Systema seminars taught by official affiliates.

Both lists are prone to updates. The affiliates list changes more frequently.

Arthur


----------



## GaryM (Jan 25, 2003)

Hi Guys. I got the tapes several years ago and the systema rocks! There is one tape with oleg taktarov that I would not recommend, it is mostly an oleg ego trip in my opinion. But everything else is fantastic. I feel that the system is tai che based with the stance being a bit on the heels. No I am not saying it is anything like tai che just that its roots probably are. I hope he comes to my area some day. Gary


----------



## sweeper (Jan 26, 2003)

dang..  nearest one has a whole state inbetween me and it 

out of suriosity what's with the bat and the crosshairs ?


----------



## GouRonin (Jan 26, 2003)

The logo might change in the future. However, it's a particular military insignia.

Go here
http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-cloth_insignia+imports.htm
for more info.


----------

