# Army+Keysi+Kyokushin Question



## skydragoon5 (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm planning on joining the army but what kind of combat style will I be learning? 

I'm also interested in learning Keysi but I'm planning on being stationed in Korea. (I dont believe its offered there)

I am particularly interested in Keysi because its the first martial arts I've seen that seems really natural to me. 
(I tend to walk funny when no one is looking lol lot of elbows and hitting walls with dashes with spins. A friend thought caught me once and asked me if I was dancing haha)

If I can't learn Keysi I might be interested in Kyokushin Karate. I'd assume this is available in a country so close to Japan? I'm also concerned that my legs aren't very flexible and I'm more of a hands elbows kind of guy.

Thanks for your time and consideration *bow*

Edit: Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I would also be interested in an art where I can fight many opponents without getting a law suit. I would think submission but thats 1v1 so...


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## Ironcrane (Dec 18, 2008)

As far as Martial Arts in the Military, they teach a hybrid that looks kinda similar to MMA. But with all the illegal moves added in. There are plenty of elbows. I think they call it Micmap. Not sure how it's really spelled. The important thing to remember, is when you're fighting with your team, you want to fight as one unit, not just as an individual.
I'm afraid I don't know anything about Keysi, so I can't help you with that one. And as far as Kyokushin in Korea? Well....I'd assume they would have it somewhere too.


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## jks9199 (Dec 18, 2008)

MCMAP is the Marine Corps Martial Arts program.  The USMC did their best to develop a systemized approach to the reality of modern military combat and hand to hand.  Overall, it seems they did a decent job, getting input some really good people.

The Army has its own hand-to-hand combatives program.  They probably don't look terribly different from MCMAP, since they were answering many of the same questions.  It amounts to the service doing its level best to give its members a set of tools that are realistic and effective and will give them their best chance to survive a life or death encounter.  

You'll probably have plenty of opportunities in various assignments to learn different martial arts.  Personally, I'm kind of skeptical of Keysi... it looks good on film -- but that doesn't mean it works for real.  And the founders make some pretty big claims, but haven't seemed to put out a lot to support them.  Doesn't mean that it's no good...  just that I myself ain't impressed.  Been wrong before... might be wrong here.  Give it a try, and see for yourself!  Give a few a try; find out what you like and what works for you.


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## jks9199 (Dec 18, 2008)

MCMAP is the Marine Corps Martial Arts program.  The USMC did their best to develop a systemized approach to the reality of modern military combat and hand to hand.  Overall, it seems they did a decent job, getting input some really good people.

The Army has its own hand-to-hand combatives program.  They probably don't look terribly different from MCMAP, since they were answering many of the same questions.  It amounts to the service doing its level best to give its members a set of tools that are realistic and effective and will give them their best chance to survive a life or death encounter.  

You'll probably have plenty of opportunities in various assignments to learn different martial arts.  Personally, I'm kind of skeptical of Keysi... it looks good on film -- but that doesn't mean it works for real.  And the founders make some pretty big claims, but haven't seemed to put out a lot to support them.  Doesn't mean that it's no good...  just that I myself ain't impressed.  Been wrong before... might be wrong here.  Give it a try, and see for yourself!  Give a few a try; find out what you like and what works for you.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 18, 2008)

Hi,

Depending on which particular branch of the armed forces you enter, your training will be different... to the point that some armies around the world don't actually train their people in unarmed combat. The thinking is that there is a very limited amount of time that a recruit has to be trained in, and the likelihood of unarmed combat is seen as minimal (although that has changed in some areas after the recent action in the middle east, where close quarters fighting occured in towns and cities), and that time can be better spent training something that will be more useful.

MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Art Program) is really a non-sporting MMA, in that it is a composite system put together from a number of sources, usually with BJJ as a base. You will encounter this only if you join the Marines.

Keysi... I'm more than a little sceptical too. Basically a "Martial Art" which was developed to look good for movies, specifically the new Batman ones. The spinning looks as if it'll put a lot of strain on the spine, and the constant use of elbows really does limit your ranges, but if it speaks to you, go for it. It might be perfect for you.

Kyokushin is just one form of karate, interestingly founded by a Korean (Mas Oyama changed his name in order to be accepted in Japanese Martial Art circles...). Their approach is a little harder than most, with emphasis on full contact sparring amongst other things. There are some things to keep in mind, though. The emphasis on tournaments and sparring can get you good in terms of taking a hit, reflexes, etc, but does develop some very dangerous habits. And the full contact is primarily to the chest, so hits to the head can still give quite a shock. There are other things, but I won't go into them here.

As for other systems, if you a more of a hands guy, why not go for boxing? You get to use your hands, you get to develop the ability to give and recieve a hit, it is adaptable to pretty much any body type, and will fit quite well with anything an Army-based program will give you...


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## skydragoon5 (Dec 18, 2008)

My foot doctor says I should be able to join the army no problem but I got a big case of the duck walk (walking with feet pointing outwards instead of parallel).  Wouldn't this severely effect making straights in boxing? 

I'm also concerned as the world of boxing is fading vs mma it might be showing a severe weakness and lack of defense against a more diverse opponent. Then again Muai Thai might be too strenuous as those guys end up messed up for life in thirties.

Maybe I'll reconsider kyokushin on that reflex comment. I have elbowed my mom in the face waking me up due to a reflex. When someone jumps out of a shadow to startle me (for fun) I usually end up punching them or tackling them. Other people get a kick out of it but that guy I just took down is usually not happy. Neither am I :/  
(dear God forbid that a woman or a girl tries to startle me)

I thought learning a striking art is supposed to hone your discipline to control those reflexes?

Hmm guess I'm leaning towards boxing now but still concerned about the above mentioned...Any other hand oriented arts?

Its hard for me to think of a striking art that wont hone my fists in to punch my mother on reflex lol. I also think Judo looks boring but I've never tried it.


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## terryl965 (Dec 18, 2008)

The best thing to do is let the military train you and then add some other style to that. It would be the best scenirio for you right now.


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## championmarius (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm with Terry. Tis probably not (read here I know its not) a good idea to go to BCT with the noodle full of notions that you know MA better than what they'll teach you. There's no faster way to earn a ticket to painville. 

Just go, learn what they teach you, its halfway decent for how long you have to work it, and it does work. Then, once you get to your duty station, look for something there.

Keysi does seem interesting, but I wouldn't stake my life on it. A lot of the moves I've seen seem real suspect, leaving way too much target exposed.

If you really like the close range stuff, take a look at Kenpo. In my experience, (tracy system) it is a very heavily hand oriented, close range, high intensity art.

Or Wing Chun, (from a reputable instructor). Good close range, high potential stuff there too.

just my .02


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## skydragoon5 (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your advice


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## CDKJudoka (Dec 19, 2008)

Army Combatives have changed a lot since I was in ten years ago, and what combatives they teach is based on what your MOS is. As Infantry, you'll be learning something similar to MCMA, but no where near as indepth, unless you move on to Rangers or other SOCOM job. I went into the Army with a 2nd dan in TKD and a brown belt in Judo and I was Infantry. During BCT combatives we learned basic boxing, judo and kick boxing. Any kicks were directed to the knees or groin, hand strikes (elbows as well) were directed to the throat, eyes, nose, and body. Throws were basic sieonage(sp), hariaghosi(sp), and osotogari. We did it for two days. 

Ranger school on the other hand, got much more in depth, but still using the same basic formula with Hapkido added for joint destruction.

Go in with a clean slate and learn what you can during combatives. After you reach your permanent duty station, then start looking into different classes and clubs on base. You may even be lucky enough to be stationed with Marines and you can get belted in MCMAP. I wish I could go through their course and certified there.


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## HG1 (Dec 19, 2008)

Like Dark Phoenix said, it depends upon your MOS.   Combat arms jobs will get some combatives training but the bulk of your training will be building upon  BRM skills with your assigned weapon.  Combat support & combat service support jobs will have considerably less, if any H2H training.  Around all Army installations you'll find plenty of martial art schools to check out.


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## D Dempsey (Dec 19, 2008)

HG1 said:


> Like Dark Phoenix said, it depends upon your MOS.   Combat arms jobs will get some combatives training but the bulk of your training will be building upon  BRM skills with your assigned weapon.  Combat support & combat service support jobs will have considerably less, if any H2H training.  Around all Army installations you'll find plenty of martial art schools to check out.



It will not depend on your MOS at all, everyone in the army learn the same basic things.  Frequency of traing is a different matter and combatives training will depend mainly on your unit and the post you are assigned to.  At my last duty stationed I was in a military intelligence unit and we did combatives at least once a week, because our CSM was really into it.  The unit next door to us, 1st Cavalry Division, almost never did combatives training and they were combat arms.  The post you are assigned to will have a big influence as well.  Ft. Bliss used to have combatives tournaments every couple of month, where as some posts never have it.  It really depends on the command.  If you really want to per sue something you should probably do it in your off time.


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## HG1 (Dec 21, 2008)

D Dempsey said:


> It will not depend on your MOS at all, everyone in the army learn the same basic things.  Frequency of traing is a different matter and combatives training will depend mainly on your unit and the post you are assigned to.  At my last duty stationed I was in a military intelligence unit and we did combatives at least once a week, because our CSM was really into it.  The unit next door to us, 1st Cavalry Division, almost never did combatives training and they were combat arms.  The post you are assigned to will have a big influence as well.  Ft. Bliss used to have combatives tournaments every couple of month, where as some posts never have it.  It really depends on the command.  If you really want to per sue something you should probably do it in your off time.


You were fortunate to have a command like that.  It's not the case with most Army units that are not in combat arms.


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## D Dempsey (Dec 21, 2008)

Like I said, it really depends on the unit and the post.  If your on a FORSCOM post you'll probably have ample opportunity to participate in combatives.  Where I work now at Fort Gordon I don't think I have ever seen anyone except the MI unit doing combatives.


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## Brian King (Dec 21, 2008)

Military units are made up of numerous personal that have many various and unique experiences including prior martial arts training for some of them. One of them or perhaps a small group may be looking for a training partner to keep up on what they have learned. If you are lucky there will be a small group willing to share their knowledge. You may have the opportunity to be exposed to many different martial systems during your tour(s). 

Good luck Skydragoon5
Warmest Regards
Brian King


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