# Standing a Qi Question



## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2008)

I am putting this here because I am fairly certain Qi has something to do with it. 

I have a question about something that I always meant to ask a sifu but I never remember when I am actually training with one.

I have not done any standing training for a couple of days due to my getting back into Chen style but I got back to it today.

While training Wuji after about 4 minutes or so my body turns very slowly to the right as far as possible. After a few seconds there it moves back to center and then turns to the left only about as half as far as it turned to the right and then back to the right as far as it can go. After a while it stops (generally) but today it changes to little turns back and forth, right and left and then stopped and was very solid.

After this I did Zhan Zhuang and something happened that I have not had happen before. As I stood there my arms started down but what was different was that the arms were heading down and something was trying to push them back up at the same time but the muscles of my arm did not feel tense. After my arms got down to almost my waist they headed back up to the proper Zhan Zhuang height and stayed there and again the stance was solid. After awhile my arms headed back down with no resistance and I was back to a very solid wuji for a bit.

I then stopped for a bit and walked around then went back and did Santi which felt incredibly good.

Anyone else have something like this happen and/or any ideas of what is going on?


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Aug 3, 2008)

> After a few seconds there it moves back to center and then turns to the left only about as half as far as it turned to the right and then back to the right as far as it can go.


 This sounds to me that the Qi is settling and adjusting to balance itself.



> After a while it stops


 Reason is it is settled smooth and even.



> but today it changes to little turns back and forth, right and left and then stopped and was very solid.


 If you practice long enough you will have achieved balance and it sounds like that is what is happening. These things happen its best to let it pass. 



> . As I stood there my arms started down but what was different was that the arms were heading down and something was trying to push them back up at the same time but the muscles of my arm did not feel tense


 I am guessing like a spring. The more you relax the more you are aware of the internal. 

IMO it sounds like correct practice which is resulting in the body adjusting itself and you being able to feel things adjusting. 

I don't see anything that sounds incorrect or harmful maybe not letting it pass or worrying about it possible problem.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 3, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> This sounds to me that the Qi is settling and adjusting to balance itself.
> 
> Reason is it is settled smooth and even.
> 
> If you practice long enough you will have achieved balance and it sounds like that is what is happening. These things happen its best to let it pass.


 
Thanks, I was wondering if it was not just qi beginning to settle but I was not sure exactly what was happening.



JadecloudAlchemist said:


> I am guessing like a spring. The more you relax the more you are aware of the internal.
> 
> IMO it sounds like correct practice which is resulting in the body adjusting itself and you being able to feel things adjusting.
> 
> I don't see anything that sounds incorrect or harmful maybe not letting it pass or worrying about it possible problem.


 
Exactly like a spring.

Thanks, I feel better now.

I am just about to go do my standing now actually and I will see how it goes.


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## East Winds (Aug 10, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

These manifestations are quite normal and show that you are now practising your standing correctly. It is as JadeCloudAlchemist says, a settling and re-ajustment of your Chi energy. I often experience quite severe trembling/vibrations starting about the Tan Tien and gradually transmitting throughout the body. My teacher (Lam Kam Chuen) explained that this was like bad plumbing and was the Chi energy striking blockages in the body. I suffer much less from these vibration now, although they sometimes still happen. He also explained that turning was quite normal. The raising of the arms is an interesting phenomenon and was explained to me as the reactions of the stabilizer muscles to the standing process. We use to do this as a sort of party trick as well. Stand in Wu Chi and then grab your trouser legs and pull as hard as you can to the sides. After about 30 seconds let go of your trousers and relax. You will find your arms rising quite involuntarily.

Hope this helps

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 12, 2008)

Did a series of Zhan Zhuang (no santi) this past weekend. I am sure there are other names for the postures but I do not have time to look them up

1. Wuji a few seconds of slight turning after several minutes but nothing major 

2. Zhan zhuang with my hands lower  This is Wang Xiangzhai by the way 

3. Zhan Zhuang that most know strange thing here, I couldn't keep my arms up for very long, they went down and stayed down and I went into the next stance

4. This one got me turning back and forth again but stuck me in teh right for a little while

5. And then a version of Zhan Zhuang (like #3) where the palms face out and the stance is a bit lower I was able to hold this for a while

6. Wuji

The whole thing took about 40 minutes

I did this again this morning but did not have the same amount of time so it was about 20 to 25 minutes. However I had no where near the turning I had before... but then this was only half as long to. 

I like this a lot. 

This is one of those things I just didn't seem to have time for before but now I do and I like it.


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## East Winds (Aug 13, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

Yes, Zhan Zhuang is a wonderful practice. In the beginning it is like hitting your head on a brick wall - its great when you stop. Then when you really get into it, it can be a joyous experience. I'm sure you already know that the picture in your example 4 is Lam Kam Chuen - my teacher. No.5 is a difficult position and if you can hold it for a while - well done.:asian:. It is worth noting that if you suffer from high blood pressure, you should not hold this posture for more than 4 minutes.

As you also know, these are very powerful exercises and you have found the difference between just standing and Zhan Zhuang. Welcome to the club

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 13, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Xue Sheng,
> 
> Yes, Zhan Zhuang is a wonderful practice. In the beginning it is like hitting your head on a brick wall - its great when you stop. Then when you really get into it, it can be a joyous experience. I'm sure you already know that the picture in your example 4 is Lam Kam Chuen - my teacher. No.5 is a difficult position and if you can hold it for a while - well done.:asian:. It is worth noting that if you suffer from high blood pressure, you should not hold this posture for more than 4 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
Strange as it may sound yes I did know your teacher was Lam Kam Chuen and I know you recommended his book to me (thank You) and I know #4 is a picture of him but for some reason I never associated the picture, even with the book, until this moment.

#5 was not too bad (could be the standing I did previously) but then I did not hold it for any great amount of time probably only about 6 to 8 minutes. 

The one that surprised me was #3. I raised my arms and they stayed for a minute maybe 2 and then went right into #4. Similar to my first post. They went down and something was trying to keep them up, I was just along for the ride apparently. 

I have stood in Zhan Zhaung before (part of Xingyiquan) however it is pretty much only the position most associate with Zhan Zhuang (#3). A few years back I did do Zhan Zhaung (#2) but nothing major really. But I never really made the focus of a practice Zhan Zhuang before

Prior to this It was mainly Wuji to Zhan Zhuang or Wuji to Zhan Zhuang to Santi or Wuji to Santi not just Wuji to various positions of Zhan Zhuang. 

It is pretty amazing and I am also discovering that it seems to compliment the Chen Style chan si jin I have started training again... but I do not do those together they are seperate by 8 to 10 hours generally. I did try doing them together once and it did not feel right at all so the minimum time between them now is about 4 hours but as I said generally 8 to 10


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## East Winds (Aug 13, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

Thanks for the post. As you have Master Lam's book and you have experience of Zhan Zhuang, have a go at the Da Cheng Chuan postures he shows. They will really blow your mind.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 14, 2008)

I remembered another question I had about something that had happened to me a few years back while training root (basically wuji on bricks). It has not happened recently but then I am not training root at the moment either.

I would be standing in wuji focusing on my root and all would go along fine for several minutes (10 to 20 Im not exactly sure) and then all of a sudden it was like I was pushed backwards and it would break my root. I would not fall but I would generally go up on my heels, luckily I did not fall off the bricks. This was a bit of a shock considering all was going rather well up to that point

Anyone have any idea what the heck that was?


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## East Winds (Aug 15, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

No. haven't experienced anything like that. But it doesn't surprise me. There are all sorts of manifestations during standing, and I suspect each person will experience different things at different intensity levels. 

Anyhow, keep at it.

Very best wishes


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## marlon (Aug 16, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Xue Sheng,
> 
> Thanks for the post. As you have Master Lam's book and you have experience of Zhan Zhuang, have a go at the Da Cheng Chuan postures he shows. They will really blow your mind.
> 
> ...


 

I have had this book for a while now and it is the best in its class.  I have not 'progressed' very far and the results are exceptional.  If you can please thank Master Lam for this gift of knowledge

respectfully,
Marlon


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 24, 2008)

2 things today

First for some reason I was not able to stand with my feet flat on the ground in any posture other than Wuji. All other Zhan Zhuang postures I found myself standing more on the balls of my feet. 

Also I discovered that if I do Power Yoga prior to Zhan Zhuang wait a few minutes and then do Zhan Zhuang things go rather well and I feel amazing afterwards.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 31, 2008)

First I seperated Yoga from this again due to time constraints this time. 

Now for why I made this post.

I had one of these moments :duh: this morning in regards to Zhan Zhuang

I have been separating Zhan Zhuang and Chan Si Jin by hours because a few times I did Zhan Zhuang first and then Chan Si Chin and it just didn&#8217;t feel right.

WEEEEEELLLLL this morning I was thinking of when I was taught Chan Si Jin and :duh: I was taught warm-up, Chan Si Jin, Qi gong and THEN&#8230;..Zhan Zhuang... in that order.

Sooooo I gave that a try today with the &#8220;expanded&#8221; Zhan Zhuang training and you know it went damn well and I felt REAL good when it was done. 

I either must have been brain dead when it comes to my past training or I felt I knew more than someone that trained Chen for about 50 years... and I don't. Either way :duh:.

OK, I feel better now. 


Also I want to clarify something I have been saying here about gaining more from Zhan Zhuang than Santi Shi. I am talking internal. I have a much better sense of the internal in Santi and for example Piquan than I did from just doing Santi Shi standing. However I do not believe that my piquan would be worth a damn if I ONLY used Zhan Zhuang as the base. To me Santi is the all important structure and Zhan Zhuang is the power flow if you will.


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## Laoshi77 (Oct 10, 2008)

A quick question I'd like to ask about Zhan Zhuang if someone would be kind enough to answer.

In standing in this way, what is the main focus? At times I have been taught this differently, for instance it has been said that the focus should be on the fingertips  and the energy that connects the hands. Or, should you run the microcosmic orbit when standing in this posture or save that for Wuji?

Thanks in anticipation.


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## kaizasosei (Oct 10, 2008)

once i took a seat in seiza.  then i slowly pivoted my center to the left as i reached for the hilt of the sword with the right hand my left firmly holding the scabard. then i began to rise drawing the sword, raised it and cut down.
just the thing is that each step took about 6 years and it took me around 15 years just to get the sword out.  how's that for slowness?
now i have a hell of a challenge before me to put the thing back in.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 10, 2008)

Laoshi77 said:


> A quick question I'd like to ask about Zhan Zhuang if someone would be kind enough to answer.
> 
> In standing in this way, what is the main focus? At times I have been taught this differently, for instance it has been said that the focus should be on the fingertips and the energy that connects the hands. Or, should you run the microcosmic orbit when standing in this posture or save that for Wuji?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation.


 
Not that I have great experience here but in the beginning focus on nothing. Just let things flow


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## Laoshi77 (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes much as I thought; makes sense really.
So it's best to focus on any tenseness and soften I suppose.

Thanks.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 11, 2008)

Laoshi77 said:


> Yes much as I thought; makes sense really.
> So it's best to focus on any tenseness and soften I suppose.
> 
> Thanks.


 
There are others here with much more expereince than I with this but it has been my expereince to just relax and focus on nothing. 

When I did this I did start to notice tenseness in certain areas and it then relaxed I also noticed other things that for lack of a better word I can only call internal eventually it all settled.


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## Laoshi77 (Oct 12, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> There are others here with much more expereince than I with this but it has been my expereince to just relax and focus on nothing.
> 
> When I did this I did start to notice tenseness in certain areas and it then relaxed I also noticed other things that for lack of a better word I can only call internal eventually it all settled.



Yes I certainly agree with that. Just be natural is the best advice.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 12, 2008)

Look for 

Chi Gong
Way of Power
By Master Lam Kam Chuen

It does a pretty good job talking about training and Zhan Zhuang


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 21, 2008)

I came across this from the book &#8220;Xingyi Yi Nei Gong&#8221; compiled and edited by Dan Miller and Tim Cartmell 

This is from Xingyiquan but it does apply



> As simple as it sounds, one is taught to &#8220;just stand.&#8221; There is no right or wrong, only an image of focus to which the body naturally conforms. The image itself serves as a focal point of mental activity which serves to calm the mind. There is only attendant &#8220;feeling&#8221; and acknowledgement thereof. There is none of the nonsense about &#8220;not thinking anything&#8221; or &#8220;emptying the mind.&#8221; The mind is focused. Trying to &#8220;stop thoughts&#8221; will only produce conflict and stress. While standing, one only observes oneself impartially with attention to how it feels, there is no conflict, the mind and body are unified and the brain waves settle down (not stop) into a calm state.





> Non-action is the real action. One hundred acts are not as good as one moment of silence. One hundred movements are not as good as one moment of standing still. Big movement is not as good as small movement. Small movement is not as good as no movement
> --Wang Xian Zhai


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2009)

Laoshi77 said:


> A quick question I'd like to ask about Zhan Zhuang if someone would be kind enough to answer.
> 
> In standing in this way, what is the main focus? At times I have been taught this differently, for instance it has been said that the focus should be on the fingertips and the energy that connects the hands. Or, should you run the microcosmic orbit when standing in this posture or save that for Wuji?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation.


 
Sorry I must have missed this post.

My understanding and from what I was taught the focus is on nothing. Staand, realx and breath.... and observe. Basically quiet the mind and watch what happens internally. But this is only what I have been taught, others may have been taught differently.


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## donjitsu2 (Oct 5, 2009)

Laoshi77 said:


> A quick question I'd like to ask about Zhan Zhuang if someone would be kind enough to answer.
> 
> In standing in this way, what is the main focus? At times I have been taught this differently, for instance it has been said that the focus should be on the fingertips and the energy that connects the hands. Or, should you run the microcosmic orbit when standing in this posture or save that for Wuji?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation.


 
At first your focus should be on developing your ability to focus on one thing. Counting your breathing and focusing on your tan tien (energy center located below your navel) are useful techniques for achieving this focus. You should be able to eliminate all thoughts from your mind, except for the counting or focusing on you tan tien. Once you are capable of maintaining that focus for 10+ minutes you should move on to eliminating all thoughts. You should not even think about adding the Microcosmic orbit into your training until you can eliminate all thoughts for at least 10 minutes. However, once you have accomplished this goal it would be a good idea to start training the microcosmic orbit. 

Train Hard, 
Josh Skinner


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