# Improvised Weapons



## K-man (Sep 21, 2014)

In another thread of knife against empty hand the focus turned to using a weapon to overcome the attacker. In a situation where you are not armed in the conventional sense you may have access to other articles that increase your chance of survival. How many here train regularly to use improvised weapons?
:asian:


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## mook jong man (Sep 21, 2014)

I've trained with flexible improvised weapons against a knife before.

Items such as a belt , bandana , even a plastic shopping bag , these items when pulled taut between the hands can cover a wide area and be used to (A) deflect the knife strike and then (B) entangle around the weapon bearing wrist to trap it , and then execute a take down very similar to an arm drag.

With the bandana you can also make a knot in one corner with some coins tied into it to use as a flail to target the face.


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## sopraisso (Sep 21, 2014)

I don't regularly train with improvised weapons because my training partners are still in a very beginner level, but it's in our training plan for future.
One thing I consider important about the subject is that sometimes your unarmed training adds heavily to the use of improvised weapons, while in other cases you have to pretty much change your tactics drastically. Either way I believe if you don't dedicate a really good amount of time to the improvised weapons, they'll hardly be specially useful in your hands.


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## Badger1777 (Sep 22, 2014)

I once found myself in a hostile confrontation in the street against a man that was convinced he recognised me from his time in prison (it was mistaken identity). Rather foolishly, he asked me if I'd hold his bag for a moment. It was full of beer cans. I was happy to oblige. A fight didn't break out, as I managed to convince him he'd mistaken me for someone else, but the way I was holding his bag for him was not so casual. It might have looked so to him, but I'd positioned myself in a sort of discrete fighting stance, with the bag of full beer cans ready to swing at any moment. In effect, he handed me his only improvised weapon. Of course if he'd decided to attack, he could have made a grab for it, but that would have meant occupying one hand, while I'm not too bad with the old legs, so either way his momentary lapse in judgement immediately threw away his only advantage.


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## frank raud (Sep 22, 2014)

I am the weapon. Anything else is an accessory.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 22, 2014)

K-man said:


> access to other articles that increase your chance of survival. How many here train regularly to use improvised weapons?
> :asian:



To have this around your waist can be handy.







Also this on your finger.


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## frank raud (Sep 22, 2014)

Now that the dog has been walked, let me explain further my previous statement. Software is more important than hardware. The majority of my knife training is based on a point driven methodology, therefore it easily translates to a kubaton, screwdriver, pen, coke bottle, etc. I can easily switch from a stabbing action to hitting with a blunt object without the necessity to be very familiar with the tool in my hand. Slashing with a screwdriver isn't the best, but lotsa folks been stabbed with one.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> With the bandana you can also make a knot in one corner with some coins tied into it to use as a flail to target the face.



"Hey Mr Knife-Wielding Maniac... hang on a minute... I just need to tie this roll of quarters in this bandana... almost done....OK. I'm ready now."

Yeah. That'll work. 

I don't train improvised weapons. By their nature, improvised weapons are not really trainable. Pick up a chair. Hit the bad guy with it. Throw it at them. Not much to train there.

What training is possible is covered by traditional weapons.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 22, 2014)

IRT is heavily integrated with weapon/tool skills.  We utilize lots of improvised weapons like flexibile weapons like a belt, t-shirt, etc., pens, etc.  Anything can be a tool to use so just explore and see what you can come up with.


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## geezer (Sep 22, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> "Hey Mr Knife-Wielding Maniac... hang on a minute... I just need to tie this roll of quarters in this bandana... almost done....OK. I'm ready now."
> 
> Yeah. That'll work.



Funny. Reading this I went off on one of my random little tangents imagining _Mook,_ after being confronted on the street, saying, "Hey, want to see a magic trick? Lend me some quarters to put in this bandana... see, I tie them in this little knot, and now watch what happens!"    Bada-bum.

Regarding improvised weapons, I _do_ think you can train a state of mind where you are aware of many potential weapons in your environment and have built up the martial skills to use them effectively. In one of the systems I've trained, _Latosa Escrima Concepts, _that mental and physical adaptability is referred to as "transition" -- one of their five fundamental concepts for self defense.

IMO, developing this kind of adaptability is far more useful in daily life than developing weapon-specific skills and having to "carry". Or you could be like one friend of mine. He goes everywhere armed to the teeth. He always carries a concealed 9mm and a couple of tactical knives. Even when training. Yeah it's legal here, but talk about a pain in the butt! And then what do you do when you have to go somewhere where you can't legally carry?

Frankly, I'm with Frank on this one. Your brain is the weapon. Your body and anything you can get your hands on are "accessories'.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2014)

geezer said:


> Funny. Reading this I went off on one of my random little tangents imagining _Mook,_ after being confronted on the street, saying, "Hey, want to see a magic trick? Lend me some quarters to put in this bandana... see, I tie them in this little knot, and now watch what happens!"    Bada-bum.
> 
> Regarding improvised weapons, I _do_ think you can train a state of mind where you are aware of many potential weapons in your environment and have built up the martial skills to use them effectively. In one of the systems I've trained, _Latosa Escrima Concepts, _that mental and physical adaptability is referred to as "transition" -- one of their five fundamental concepts for self defense.
> 
> ...



I agree completely that your brain is your primary weapon. That doesn't mean accessory weapons are a bad idea.
I don't know what "here" means, but your profile says you're in AZ. If that's where your friend is... AZ has some of the most liberal gun carry laws in the nation, so I wouldn't expect there are many places he can't legally carry. And when you are in one of those rare places, well, isn't that why he trains?
As for the "pain in the butt", I'm not sure why you think this. Done properly, carrying concealed isn't a pain. It's not even something you have to think about. It's not any more a "pain in the butt" than putting my wallet in one pocket and my car keys in another. I'm willing to bet that if you ask you friend, he'll say much the same thing.


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## donald1 (Sep 22, 2014)

My wallet has a chain,  it could be a improvised weapon


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## K-man (Sep 22, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> IRT is heavily integrated with weapon/tool skills.  We utilize lots of improvised weapons like flexibile weapons like a belt, t-shirt, etc., pens, etc.  Anything can be a tool to use so just explore and see what you can come up with.


I think that a lot of people don't realise what they actually may have nearby. Brian had listed some, here are some more. Something as simple as a handkerchief, a hand full of coins, keys, shoes, books, magazines, newspaper, hand bag, brief case, even discarded litter. And all that is without even thinking of purpose designed accessories such as kubaton, tactical pens or torches etc. If you are outdoors, a handful of dirt or leaves,a rock or a stick. 

Of course you then have more obvious things like tables and chairs. Ash trays on tables, salt and pepper shakers etc. Inside a store there are dozens of items that become improvised weapons in an emergency.

As to training. Frank got it right in his post above. If you are training realistic defence against a knife your partner is actually training realistic self defence with a kubaton or pen. If you are training realistic defence against a stick then your partner is learning how to use a rolled up paper or magazine.

Again, as Brian said, it just takes a little thought to learn to recognise these things. Next time you are out walking about or shopping have a look around. It is a good exercise to do from time to time.
:asian:


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## mook jong man (Sep 22, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> "Hey Mr Knife-Wielding Maniac... hang on a minute... I just need to tie this roll of quarters in this bandana... almost done....OK. I'm ready now."
> 
> Yeah. That'll work.
> 
> ...



Yeah umm,  I wasn't talking about doing it right there on the spot was I.

You would be carrying the bandana around in your pocket , with the coins already knotted into the corner.

The coins in the corner of the bandana help to also consolidate your grip on the material so that it doesn't slip out of your hand when you are redirecting the knife strikes.

Not only that , you will always have some emergency spare change on hand for a phone call or the bus.
[video=youtube_share;tMUAbaj6mhM]http://youtu.be/tMUAbaj6mhM[/video]


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2014)

mook jong man said:


> Yeah umm,  I wasn't talking about doing it right there on the spot was I.
> 
> You would be carrying the bandana around in your pocket , with the coins already knotted into the corner.
> 
> ...



I can't argue against the "spare change" theory, but I do have to say there aren't really any pay phones left around here (perhaps it's different where you are). We don't have a bus system where I live, either, though there is one where I work. I checked, and it's $1.75, so the change could come in handy.

On the other hand... if I prepare it ahead of time, I don't know that I'd call it "improvised". To my mind, that's more of a spur of the moment thing.
Don't get me wrong. I do prepare weapons ahead of time. But those are sharp (which would give you the chance to try out your handkerchief defense) or require the insertion of a magazine.


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## mook jong man (Sep 22, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I can't argue against the "spare change" theory, but I do have to say there aren't really any pay phones left around here (perhaps it's different where you are). We don't have a bus system where I live, either, though there is one where I work. I checked, and it's $1.75, so the change could come in handy.
> 
> On the other hand... if I prepare it ahead of time, I don't know that I'd call it "improvised". To my mind, that's more of a spur of the moment thing.
> Don't get me wrong. I do prepare weapons ahead of time. But those are sharp (which would give you the chance to try out your handkerchief defense) or require the insertion of a magazine.



That's great , but not every country in the world lets you go walking around packing an armoury.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 22, 2014)

Ain't freedom great?


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.


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## elder999 (Sep 22, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Ain't freedom great?
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



Let's enjoy it while it lasts....(whistling.....)


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## Skip Cooper (Sep 23, 2014)




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## Dylan9d (Sep 23, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> Ain't freedom great?
> 
> 
> Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.



Yes it is until another teenager decides to raid his dads closet and shoot his schoolmates to pieces, then the US is always in tears.
Wonder why this isn't happening in the Netherlands......oh yes very strict gunlaws (only cops and people with special permits are allowed to carry a gun)

Trained with a sarong sometimes in my years in Silat and you can compare that to a scarf or belt, also with the tongkat, thats comparable to an umbrella i guess


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## Balrog (Sep 24, 2014)

geezer said:


> Regarding improvised weapons, I _do_ think you can train a state of mind where you are aware of many potential weapons in your environment and have built up the martial skills to use them effectively.
> ...snip...
> 
> Frankly, I'm with Frank on this one. Your brain is the weapon. Your body and anything you can get your hands on are "accessories'.


Agreed.  The training is making the brain become aware that anything around you can be used as a weapon.  Once you realize that, then how you use it falls into the physical training that you have done.


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