# Nerves in sparring...



## bluemtn (May 28, 2007)

Ok, you'd think that I made it as far as I have, that I'd be over my fear by now.  Right?  Well, my problem at the present is sparring someone that is a good bit taller than I am, and they throw in something like a crescent kick or high hook, round (the not so easy to blocks).  I do pretty good at moving away from the kicks, but is that all I can do- move?  Pointers, anyone?


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## Andrew Green (May 28, 2007)

Push in, not away.  Jam the kick up at the source and get inside there range.

Find a partner you trust to just throw high kicks for a while, starting off slowly.  Work on driving in, or ducking under the kicks.  Slowly add speed and other techniques as you get comfortable.

But don't try to "block" kicks in the traditional sense of "blocking" instead cover up and drive in, hit them before they put there foot down.


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## Callandor (May 28, 2007)

I have the same problem too. Thanks for the tip.


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## Kacey (May 28, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> Push in, not away.  Jam the kick up at the source and get inside there range.
> 
> Find a partner you trust to just throw high kicks for a while, starting off slowly.  Work on driving in, or ducking under the kicks.  Slowly add speed and other techniques as you get comfortable.
> 
> But don't try to "block" kicks in the traditional sense of "blocking" instead cover up and drive in, hit them before they put there foot down.



Andrew beat me to it.  Lots of people (not all, but many) who use these types of kicks use them to keep people off of them; moving inside tends to confuse them, especially at first, because they expect you to move away from them.  If you can get inside while their foot is still up, you can catch them off-balance - especially as many people spread and/or drop their hands when doing kicks, especially high kicks.

The only way to get better at such techniques is to practice; people tend to practice things they like, rather than things they don't like or think they're not good at, when those are the things you need to practice the most.


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## Steel Tiger (May 28, 2007)

Kacey said:


> Andrew beat me to it. Lots of people (not all, but many) who use these types of kicks use them to keep people off of them; moving inside tends to confuse them, especially at first, because they expect you to move away from them. If you can get inside while their foot is still up, you can catch them off-balance - especially as many people spread and/or drop their hands when doing kicks, especially high kicks.
> 
> The only way to get better at such techniques is to practice; people tend to practice things they like, rather than things they don't like or think they're not good at, when those are the things you need to practice the most.


 
Yeah there is no doubt about it, tall guys don't like people getting inside.  High kicks can be ducked and evaded in such a way as to allow for good forward movement.  Once you are inside their reach they get very awkward and uncomfortable, generally.

The worst I have encountered, though, was a tall guy who used body kicks aimed about waist level.  These were designed to hurt me and keep me at a maximum distance.  It took a while but was able to evade to the inside of the kick and do a takedown.  He was very uncomfortable after that.


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## Andrew Green (May 28, 2007)

Catch and sweep  

Unless that is against the rules...  then do it really hard once, take the warning and hope it makes him hesitant on throwing more :lol: (that's bad and I don't really suggest it)


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## Telos (Aug 3, 2007)

learn to duck and or move in a way that stops yet "hangs" them up. like rushing in while blocking will usually "hang them up" while they hop trying to free themself and keep pushing forward and they 'll fall over and get downgraded for sloppy technique and or presentation.

other than that duck and sway like a boxer.

or at least that's what i do. But it's something that was kickedinto my head the  hard way way back when i was a color belt.


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## leplvr (Aug 3, 2007)

tkdgirl said:


> Ok, you'd think that I made it as far as I have, that I'd be over my fear by now. Right? Well, my problem at the present is sparring someone that is a good bit taller than I am, and they throw in something like a crescent kick or high hook, round (the not so easy to blocks). I do pretty good at moving away from the kicks, but is that all I can do- move? Pointers, anyone?


 
One drill we work on is when you're in a closed position and your opponent throws a roundhouse to the mid section, block with your hands and use the momentum that you get from the kick to push off with your hands, spin around and throw a hook kick to their mid section or head. That's one of my favorites! As for the rest of the kick, Andrew nailed it!



Andrew Green said:


> Push in, not away. Jam the kick up at the source and get inside there range.


 
Andrew, I read your post the other day and it's something I've heard the instructors tell us to do, but it never really sank in till I read your post. We sparred last night and I moved in when sparring with all my opponents and it worked! I could have sworn that the sun filled the room and the choir was singing "Hallelujah" LOL!! It's something I've been struggling with for a while. I'm only 5'4" and there's some tall people with long legs in my school and I never knew what to do. Thank you soooooo much!!! 
:asian:

Connie


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## zDom (Aug 3, 2007)

Yep, Andrew's got it right.

In addition to making it much harder to kick and punch, getting in close is also safer if they do manage to kick or punch &#8212; less power.

Kind of like a baseball bat: you don't want to get hit with the end of the bat, if you can't avoid the strike entirely, but up near the handle where there is less power. So, when dealing with a taller kicker, try to jam them up at the knee or thigh.

Trying to avoid the kick on the outside can be dangerous because if they manage to catch you, it is going to be at full extension &#8212; the powerful "end of the bat."

Even though I am as tall as or taller than most of my opponents, one of the things I've cultivated over the years in my sparring is comfort at extremely close range. Most people (or Americans, at least) find it extremely uncomfortable to have someone inside their "personal space" bubble.


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## 14 Kempo (Aug 3, 2007)

I'm not TKD, but I'm agreeing with both of Andrew's posts. First and foremost, move in, not away. Secondly, it a sporting environment, trap and sweep, take the warning.

For the most part, unless in a struggle with a grappling or muay tai type, and yes, I know there are others, moving in confuses them. Think about yourself in a sparring situation. What are your thoughts as you throw those high kicks, are you not expecting your opponent to back up? Well, whatever your thoughts are, they very well could be along the same lines as your opponents thoughts -- do the opposite -- and of course, practice, practice, practice. 

As also mentioned by Andrew, find someone that you trust and work with them. Get their thoughts, ask them what they are thinking when you do certain movements. You will be helping each other learn. If someone is defeating you in sparring, become training partners with them. Work with them and try to learn what it is they see and what they are thinking when you make certain movements, if you succeed in acquiring the information, then you can learn to apply counters to those thoughts and begin to defeat them. Sparring is a game for the most part.


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## leplvr (Aug 3, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> I'm not TKD, but I'm agreeing with both of Andrew's posts. First and foremost, move in, not away. Secondly, it a sporting environment, trap and sweep, take the warning.


 
Our tournaments are point sparring. As for sweeping...is that like "sweep the leg"? LOL What would that do? Freak them out a bit? I can't see us doing that since we're out to get points, not hurt our opponent. But in TKD fighting, I can see that being useful.



14 Kempo said:


> For the most part, unless in a struggle with a grappling or muay tai type, and yes, I know there are others, moving in confuses them. Think about yourself in a sparring situation. What are your thoughts as you throw those high kicks, are you not expecting your opponent to back up? Well, whatever your thoughts are, they very well could be along the same lines as your opponents thoughts -- do the opposite -- and of course, practice, practice, practice.


 
I like that! Do the opposite of what you would do because that's what your opponent is waiting for you to do. One of my other favorite moves to do is again, in a closed stance, jab with the left, cross with the right and as you're throwing the right cross, your right leg is on it's way to your opponents head. They're expecting a punch and your arm is blocking your leg, they don't see it till it's too late. It works almost every time!



14 Kempo said:


> As also mentioned by Andrew, find someone that you trust and work with them. Get their thoughts, ask them what they are thinking when you do certain movements. You will be helping each other learn. If someone is defeating you in sparring, become training partners with them. Work with them and try to learn what it is they see and what they are thinking when you make certain movements, if you succeed in acquiring the information, then you can learn to apply counters to those thoughts and begin to defeat them. Sparring is a game for the most part.


 
Another thing that can help you learn, not as fun as sparring, but you can pick up so much, is to sit out a few classes and watch. I tore my ACL last summer and was stuck watching a couple months of class before I could go back in and I learned a great deal. 

Connie


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## 14 Kempo (Aug 3, 2007)

leplvr said:


> 14 Kempo said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not TKD, but I'm agreeing with both of Andrew's posts. First and foremost, move in, not away. Secondly, it a sporting environment, trap and sweep, take the warning.
> ...


 
What it does is put your opponent on his/her butt and make them think twice about lifting their leg that high to kick the next time. It's not a point but strictly sending a message. If they are seasoned sparring people, it won't phase them. They will know that it is not a legal move and will continue to execute their sparring style ... but again, it's nothing more than sending a message.


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## Andrew Green (Aug 3, 2007)

One of those unspoke features of any contact sport is that if you land something hard right away that can be enough to cause hesitation and give you the fight.

The more seasoned the fighter the less that should work, but taking a solid shot that knocks you down or rocks you the first time you move in will put you at a pyschological disadvantage right of the start.


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## CoryKS (Aug 3, 2007)

Andrew Green said:


> Push in, not away. Jam the kick up at the source and get inside there range.


 
Yup.  If he kicks hard enough, he'll sweep himself off his own foot.


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## zDom (Aug 3, 2007)

I can't believe what I'm hearing.

If I'm officiating a TKD match and someone sweeps they are likely to get an instant _*disqualification*_ and some strong words from me for bad sportsmanship, not a warning.

What you are suggesting is as bad as telling someone to throw a sidekick into the gut of someone during a boxing match.

If someone sweeps *ME* during a TKD match and is not disqualified, I pity them because they can expect a major outer reaping (called osoti gari in JMAs) or shoulder throw (ippon seoinage) from me in the next 30 seconds.

And I'll gladly take the disqualifcation and hope they are able to get up on their own and not be carried out.

High kicking is part of the TKD point-style sparring game. If you can't deal with it in any other way to than to willingly and knowingly break the rules, then perhaps you should pick a DIFFERENT game to play.


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## Kacey (Aug 3, 2007)

zDom said:


> I can't believe what I'm hearing.
> 
> If I'm officiating a TKD match and someone sweeps they are likely to get an instant _*disqualification*_ and some strong words from me for bad sportsmanship, not a warning.



Well... it depends on the rules you're using, I guess.  The YCTA (the TKD association I belong to) allows sweeps at the red belt level and up - it's why we require headgear, as well; the greatest danger from sweeps is landing on your head.  So if competitors in the red and black belt ranks use sweeps in a ring when I'm the referee, it's legal - with some qualifications; they must be foot to foot (not higher), and outside to in - other variations of sweeps are too dangerous to the knee, and will be called as low kicks, which *are *illegal _by our rules_ - and which will garner warnings, minus points, or disqualification, depending on the circumstances.



zDom said:


> What you are suggesting is as bad as telling someone to throw a sidekick into the gut of someone during a boxing match.
> 
> If someone sweeps *ME* during a TKD match and is not disqualified, I pity them because they can expect a major outer reaping (called osoti gari in JMAs) or shoulder throw (ippon seoinage) from me in the next 30 seconds.
> 
> And I'll gladly take the disqualifcation and hope they are able to get up on their own and not be carried out.



So... it's okay to do something illegal - and dangerous - back, because someone did something illegal to you, and the referee didn't call it?  I find that to be considerably harder to believe than anything I've read in the rest of this thread.  Sweeps are illegal by your rules - I don't have a problem with that.  You expect your referees to enforce the rules - I don't have a problem with that either.  You find it acceptable to break the rules because someone else did it first and it wasn't responded to the way you think it should have been?  I do have a problem with that, and honestly, it's not something I'd have expected from you.



zDom said:


> High kicking is part of the TKD point-style sparring game. If you can't deal with it in any other way to than to willingly and knowingly break the rules, then perhaps you should pick a DIFFERENT game to play.



I don't disagree with this at all.  Sparring is a game, and the name of the game is "score points according to the rules".  

But if you're going to tell others to follow the rules, you need to follow them yourself - not just when others do, but all the time; otherwise, you're telling others that it's okay to break the rules if someone else does first... and that just reminds me too much of my middle school students' excuses:  Teacher "Why did you hit little Johnny?"  Student "Because he hit me first."  Teacher "And that makes it okay?"  Student "Yeah, because he broke the rules first, so I had to do it too."


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## leplvr (Aug 3, 2007)

I personally would never sweep for several reasons. I'm extremely competitive and if I had a ref that didn't go for that, I'd be disqualified and that's a loss...not an option in my book. I also wouldn't do it because I really don't want to hurt anyone when I'm sparring with them. I'm always afraid of hurting my knee again after tearing the ACL while sparring last year, the last thing I would want to is hurt someone elses knee. It's not worth it and I'd rather win from being a better fighter than them. I also don't like the idea of it because it's fighting dirty (at least in Kyuki-Do but may be legal in other forms of MA) I'm sure there's other ways to intimidate your opponant. In fact, I'd love to get some great pointers from you guys...I'll start a new thread.

Connie


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## zDom (Aug 3, 2007)

Kacey said:


> So... it's okay to do something illegal - and dangerous - back, because someone did something illegal to you, and the referee didn't call it?  I find that to be considerably harder to believe than anything I've read in the rest of this thread.  Sweeps are illegal by your rules - I don't have a problem with that.  You expect your referees to enforce the rules - I don't have a problem with that either.  You find it acceptable to break the rules because someone else did it first and it wasn't responded to the way you think it should have been?  I do have a problem with that, and honestly, it's not something I'd have expected from you.



If someone is sweeping me at one of our tournaments with impunity at one of our tournaments, it indicates two things:

a) My opponent is out to hurt me, not win the match. At 2nd dan level (I have to compete at that rank because of my TKD ranking), anyone I'm fighting knows damn well that is an illegal and dangerous technique

and

b) the referee is not looking out for my safety

It then becomes combat, doesn't it?

Bah, truth is... that is my gut reaction and what I SAY I would do, but the truth is, if my past behavior is any indication, I would just suck it up and finish out the match playing by the rules but watching out for the next dirty technique from my opponent.

I have taken hard, illegal shots (blind technique, for example, or excessive contact to the mask area) in the past that the ref didn't appropriately respond to, and that is what I have always done: take a moment to compose myself and finish out the match by the rules (albeit there WILL be a BIT more juice on the techniques )

But at a certain point, just because there is a referee standing in the vicinity, if someone is out to HURT me, then it becomes a matter of self defense, no?

In any case, thanks for calling me on that, Kacey. You are right.

And as for competitions in which sweeping is ALLOWED: well heck, I see nothing wrong with THAT at all. Might even be fun to try one of those out someday.

But slipping in a dirty technique knowing you will get a warning the first time as a way to obtain an advantage?

That is counter to one of the Five Tenets of TKD: Integrity


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