# So I was reading the PPCT manual...



## Hudson69 (Sep 24, 2010)

I am still waiting to go through the PPCT Instructor School (I have never taken any PPCT training) but my boss gives me a manual that he got; I dont know how old it is.

Anyway I am reading it and trying to find out what makes it effective for law enforcement (my background is FBI Arrest Control & CSPD DT).  In one of the situations presented in the book it shows images of an officer striking somebody from behind and it looks like a suprascapular but it says it is a brachial stun - either way, not a big deal.  It is what is stated below it.

The manual says to not hit too hard because you may injure your opponent.    WTF?

I know every situatioin is different but I would assume that most Officers, Deputies, Agents and everyone else that is a LEO, to make it to that point would only try and hit someone like this if they meant to hit someone like this and injury is the last thing on their mind; knowing your target/opponent and not hitting someone with a shot you know will jack them up is one thing but that just sounds like the PPCT system is instilling some type of hesitance into the persons studying it.

I also couldn't find any elbow or knee strikes or a snap kick.....  this might be an old manual.

Any comments from PPCT experienced people?


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 24, 2010)

Hudson69 said:


> I am still waiting to go through the PPCT Instructor School (I have never taken any PPCT training) but my boss gives me a manual that he got; I dont know how old it is.
> 
> Anyway I am reading it and trying to find out what makes it effective for law enforcement (my background is FBI Arrest Control & CSPD DT). In one of the situations presented in the book it shows images of an officer striking somebody from behind and it looks like a suprascapular but it says it is a brachial stun - either way, not a big deal. It is what is stated below it.
> 
> ...


 
Yep.......but you seem to have figured most of it out for yourself already.


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## frank raud (Sep 24, 2010)

The appeal of PPCT to law enforcement is the "fact" that it is court defensible. It doesn't take a maximum power shot to stun someone from a brachial plexus shot, and you have a preety good chance of messing up someone's neck or vertebrae if you do apply one. The "use no more force than necessary" sounds good, but is hard to gauge in a struggle. But you know that already.

Not a LEO, but PPCT certified.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Sep 24, 2010)

I would have to dig out my old manual to go into major detail but PPCT definitely has knee strikes to the common peroneal in it, Roundhouse kicks to the common peroneal and femoral pressure points.  The suprascapular strike when I learned it there was not talk of going easy but instead blasting the guy's pressure points and putting them on their knees.  Just my 02. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It like most LEO systems is limiting and I have always felt that serious LEO's take it and then move onto some thing with more depth!


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 24, 2010)

frank raud said:


> The appeal of PPCT to law enforcement is the "fact" that it is court defensible. It doesn't take a maximum power shot to stun someone from a brachial plexus shot, and you have a preety good chance of messing up someone's neck or vertebrae if you do apply one. The "use no more force than necessary" sounds good, but is hard to gauge in a struggle. But you know that already.
> 
> Not a LEO, but PPCT certified.


 
The 'claim' of 'court defensibility' is a huge appeal to administrators.

The rub is this......the PPCT rational is a bit of a catch 22........they claim IF you do their techniques right, they will work, and no one will get hurt.......IF someone got hurt, it's because you didn't do it right, and you're liable.


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 24, 2010)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I would have to dig out my old manual to go into major detail but PPCT definitely has knee strikes to the common peroneal in it, Roundhouse kicks to the common peroneal and femoral pressure points. The suprascapular strike when I learned it there was not talk of going easy but instead blasting the guy's pressure points and putting them on their knees. Just my 02.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Exactly! It is training for the lowest common denominator. Those of us who take our training seriously find little value in it. 

For an officer who has never been in a fight or doesn't train in anything........well, I guess PPCT is better than nothing.


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## punisher73 (Sep 25, 2010)

It is probably an old manual.  Here are a couple things to look for to judge the revisions.

When I first got trained in it about 14 yrs ago.  There was the bent arm bar takedown and the front thrust kick to the hip (muay thai teep). There was also the lateral vascular neck restraint (choke).

When I went through the police academy about 8 yrs ago, there was no bent arm bar takedown, it was just the straight arm version.  The front kick was replaced with the superficial peroneal (sp?) kick to the lower part of the shin/ankle area.  The lateral vascular neck restraint was still gone.

When I got certified as an instructor about 4 yrs or so ago, the lateral vascular neck restraint was back in and taught in 3 stages for compliance.  I just got recertified this past year and we were told that there was another revision in the manual and elbow strikes were being added into it, but since there were no manuals out on it, we were formally taught to teach them until they were.

So there have been many changes to the system as more research on the use of force comes back to them.  In all the versions I have trained in, it was always taught to hit them with your full body and use the fluid shock wave.


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## sgtmac_46 (Sep 25, 2010)

punisher73 said:


> It is probably an old manual. Here are a couple things to look for to judge the revisions.
> 
> When I first got trained in it about 14 yrs ago. There was the bent arm bar takedown and the front thrust kick to the hip (muay thai teep). There was also the lateral vascular neck restraint (choke).
> 
> ...


 
Actually, that would the 'Unilateral Vascular Neck Restraint' as the 'Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint' (LVNR) name is copyrighted by Jim Lindell out of Kansas City.

LVNR is a vastly superior technique to UVNR.  http://www.nletc.com/courses_details.php?id=1


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