# force



## marlon (Jun 15, 2008)

could someone  or someones...explain their understanding of short force to me please

respectfully,
marlon


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## ggg214 (Jun 15, 2008)

short force?&#23544;&#21170;&#65311;
i think if you mean this, Wing chun practitioners are all  experts on this.
taiji is based on long force.


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## marlon (Jun 22, 2008)

what about the shoulder stroke and palm are they not examples of short force.  Perhaps i am using the wrong term.  i know that taichi was called long fist b/c of it's continuous motion but i was sure it taught elements of short force generation.  It seems certainly apparent in chen style and i think it is also in yang.
Of course, i may be wrong
Respectfully,
marlon


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 25, 2008)

Short force is just any force that doesn't move much to accomplish it's goal. You can do most all taiji moves in either long or short varieties, except some are better in either the short or long version. The short jings emphasize fajing (duh) and the long jings emphasize control and throwing.


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## marlon (Jun 25, 2008)

Formosa Neijia said:


> Short force is just any force that doesn't move much to accomplish it's goal. You can do most all taiji moves in either long or short varieties, except some are better in either the short or long version. The short jings emphasize fajing (duh) and the long jings emphasize control and throwing.


 

thank you.  What may be some of the best ways to cultivate this skill?

marlon


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## Quotheraving (Jun 26, 2008)

If a picture is worth a thousand words, how much is a video worth?

Example of Short Force:  





Example of Long Force: 





How does one develop these skills? 
Well how does one develop any skill, diligent practice and correct instruction.


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## Zorlio (Jun 26, 2008)

Some of these videos almost seem "magical"

Like this one for example:  



 (especially at 1:05), is this actually not exaggerated?  I'm assuming this requires decades of mastering.

And what about this one?: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KJr2BdUTYkU&feature=related


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 26, 2008)

marlon said:


> thank you.  What may be some of the best ways to cultivate this skill?
> 
> marlon



That's not so easy to answer. The long power is usually about the waist, legs, and proper alignment over a longer range of motion. Long power controls the opponent constantly for an extended length of time, which is why it's good for throwing, qinna, etc. Aikido is fairly good at this power.

Short power is more about opening and closing the body, folding, using the spine, etc. The range of motion is much shorter and the time for the power release is also much shorter. This is the short, sharp power known as fajing.

Unfortunately I can't really tell you how to develop this stuff on the net. It's too complex. You need a teacher that can show it to you. But the tips above should get you started in recognizing each type of power when you see it.

BTW, long pole practice can develop both of these really well.


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## HG1 (Jun 26, 2008)

marlon said:


> could someone or someones...explain their understanding of short force to me please respectfully, marlon


 
Think of harnessing the energy relased when you catch yourself from falling or when you get scared or startled. It's that kind of natural body jerk put into a movement/technique.


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## East Winds (Jun 27, 2008)

marlon,

The Chen family train fajin by the practise of Chan Si Gong (Silk Reeling). The Yang family train fajin by the practise of Chou Si Gong (Drawing Silk) or sinking the Chi to the dantien. You can get videos of Chen Xiaowang teaching Chan Si Gong, but like Formosa Neijia says, you cannot learn it without a knowledgeable teacher.

Very best wishes


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## Quotheraving (Jun 30, 2008)

Zorlio said:


> Some of these videos almost seem "magical"
> 
> Like this one for example:
> 
> ...



There's certainly the danger of psychological compliance with T'ai Chi, or in other words students play acting to please the teacher's ego, and the danger with that is that the teacher can begin to believe it themselves.
So approach every wild claim with skepticism.

Here's another example of Huang's lineage that shows the same kind of issuing but rather less 'magical' seeming.


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## East Winds (Jul 2, 2008)

Quotheraving,

Yes, your clip is much more convincing than the "bouncing monkeys" from the other two clips. 

Very best wishes


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