# Is Chi the same as spirit?



## shesulsa (Jul 31, 2006)

Is chi / ki / qi energy the same as your spirit? part of your spirit? or is the energy that which emanates from your total being and the breath of spirit?


----------



## pstarr (Aug 1, 2006)

No.  _Hun _or _Hun-po_ is the Chinese term for "soul."

Chi literally means, "air, breath, vapor..."  What it is depends on who you ask.  But it has nothing to do with one's soul or spirit-


----------



## Jenna (Aug 1, 2006)

I would agree with p above.. imHo I believe that soul is not a part even of this realm and is not generally accessible by us.. you can give birth to a precious child and who is most certainly endowed with a beautiful soul.. an incandescent beacon for positives (you would see there is a marked difference between the shining soul of a child and the darkened soul of most adults) ..likewise you could kill someone.. and but in NEITHER case are you ever actually accessing a soul.. you are merely acting as a signalman changing points on its railroad tracks.. so no.. imHo the soul is immutably connected elsewhere and is not an entity to be drawn down.. 

This is completely unlike the energy both ambient and internal that we can freely invoke and which is instantly translated as potential then most usually kinetic energy within ourselves as part of our ki practices.. actually those who can retain ki as potential energy and not expend it kinetically are certainly the most adept.. 

sorry that is nothing but a kooky opinion.. it is all I got 

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 1, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Is chi / ki / qi energy the same as your spirit? part of your spirit? or is the energy that which emanates from your total being and the breath of spirit?


 
Nope, Qi and spirit are 2 different things when it comes to Traditional Chinese medicine, Chinese martial arts and Qigong.

And none are related to soul


----------



## CuongNhuka (Aug 1, 2006)

The abouve are right. The soul is a more heaven based, metaphysical concept. ki (or what ever you want to call) is inside your body at every moment of your life. At death your soul either goes into heaven or is reincarnated in someone else. Depending on what you believe. Ki goes back to were it comes from. And who knows how many places it is beleived to come from.
There is how ever a small faction of Taoism that is mixed Confusism and Shinto that believes that the ki is the energy derived from the soul. Something to think about.


----------



## Carol (Aug 3, 2006)

I agree.  I think we move our ki through rooting, acupuncture, accupressure or meridian therapy, reiki and the like, but I don't think that affects our soul or _atma._


----------



## Brother John (Aug 3, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Is chi / ki / qi energy the same as your spirit? part of your spirit? or is the energy that which emanates from your total being and the breath of spirit?


No, I don't think they are the same.
In the oriental cultures, from my experience and in my understanding (limited), I don't think that there's a great difference made between "Mind" and "Spirit". In most of the literature I've read on "Chi" and/or "Ki", it's controlled by the mind or spirit, but is a seperate energy all it's own.

They relate to one another however. I think most would agree that someone with a 'disturbed' spirit wouldn't be adroit at manipulating their "Chi" or their mind either one.

Also: Something interesting to note...
Most all cultures around the world, the oriental and the occidental both, have words that mean both "Soul" or "Spirit" AND "breath"! Very interesting to note.
In the Hebrew/Christian faith: the Ruach ha Qodesh (spelled differently by different people, this one chosen arbitrarily) means both "Holy Spirit"  AND "The Breath of God".
In the Greek we have "Pneuma"...simply.....spirit AND/OR breath. Also the word "Spirit" means both the sould/mind and the breath...as in our word "aSPIRation"....putting "spirit" as the base word for the word meaning to breath.

I mention this because another common thread throughout all of the Chi/Ki literature and instruction that I've gotten is that the "Breath" is vital in the cultivation and manipulation of Chi/Ki. Something to think about??
Enjoy!

Your Brother
John


----------



## OnlyAnEgg (Aug 3, 2006)

CuongNhuka said:
			
		

> There is how ever a small faction of Taoism that is mixed Confusism and Shinto that believes that the ki is the energy derived from the soul. Something to think about.


 
My personal belief is that the soul is a distinct and discreet aspect of a life that coordinates with mind and body, also distinct and discreet units.

I feel that ki is a facet of our existence that is made up of the combined energies of body, mind and soul and can, to some degree, be harnessed and directed.  I'm not sure that I believe some of the claims that practitioners of ki based systems maintain; but, I believe it can be used and directed.

With all that in mind, ki and soul are not the same; but, they are interrelated.


----------



## CuongNhuka (Aug 3, 2006)

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> My personal belief is that the soul is a distinct and discreet aspect of a life that coordinates with mind and body, also distinct and discreet units.
> 
> I feel that ki is a facet of our existence that is made up of the combined energies of body, mind and soul and can, to some degree, be harnessed and directed. I'm not sure that I believe some of the claims that practitioners of ki based systems maintain; but, I believe it can be used and directed.
> 
> With all that in mind, ki and soul are not the same; but, they are interrelated.


 
I agree. All I said was that there is a sect of Taoism that believes the two are almost one and same. But they are the execption, not the rule.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Aug 3, 2006)

CuongNhuka said:
			
		

> All I said was that there is a sect of Taoism that believes the two are almost one and same.


 
Which sect of Taoism?


----------



## Kensai (Aug 8, 2006)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Is chi / ki / qi energy the same as your spirit? part of your spirit? or is the energy that which emanates from your total being and the breath of spirit?


 
Not in my opinion. I see chi as many things, but not the spirit or soul. 

To me it exists on several levels. Perhaps at the most basic, it is to do with breathing, controlling of energy, focus of mind. That in itself still doesn't explain chi, but it perhaps does relate to chi. Some scientists have attempted to explain it purely as a bio-electrical energy, but I still don't agree with that. Perhaps in part, but not fully. It's almost like trying to explain the inexplicable in my view, like plaitting fog. 

I don't think/believe it to be the spirit though. That said, trying to define concepts such as the "spirit", or the "soul" is difficult if not next to impossible in itself. I also suspect it will vary from person to person...


----------



## Jade Tigress (Aug 8, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Nope, Qi and spirit are 2 different things when it comes to Traditional Chinese medicine, Chinese martial arts and Qigong.
> 
> And none are related to soul



This is my thinking too. However, I recently read this:

"It was known that every living creature has it's own energy, it's own life source, *much like the western notion of the soul*. The monks called this energy Chi. Could each monk learn to harness this Chi within him and release it at will? The monks discovered that a light blow, delivered by the fingertips with the eneregy of Chi, could be more devastating than a blow with great muscular strength."

(italicized bold mine)

I have always thought of Chi as biophysical electricity/energy...and the soul as something more spiritual.


----------



## pstarr (Aug 8, 2006)

Exactly right!


----------



## Explorer (Aug 8, 2006)

In my mind qi is like a mechanical force of/in nature.  Spirit is our transcendant part.  So I see them as seperate.

It's interesting to note that abdominal breathing ... exercising the stomach area as we are taught in qigong or singing ... results in a hormone / neural transmitter cascade that improves the body's immune system and more.  

If you do a search for "Gut Brain" you'll find a series of articles that are most interesting.  Gut brain is distinct from the central nervous system.  It even has its own memory.


----------



## CuongNhuka (Aug 11, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Which sect of Taoism?


 
You know I don't remember. I cann't even remember were I heard about it. I wish I could help. Nuts.


----------



## PeaceWarrior (Nov 7, 2006)

Heres my take on it, in my humble opinion:

Spirit is your true nature given to you by God, it was created by God to commune with Him.  The Soul is distinct from the spirit, from the soul comes our emotional being, our individual persona as is shaped by our life experiences (hence "that person has a troubled soul").  Ki or Chi would be the bio-mechanical energy inherent in all of our tissues, which can be developed to be very strong and also manifests itself as an etheric field or aura that surrounds the body.  Chi is separate from soul, soul is separate from spirit, but they are all within the same sphere.  Imagine this: Draw a big circle that represents spirit, in that circle another that represents soul, inside that circle would be chi. They are all distinct but intimately related.  someone with a strong spirit would neccesarily have a strong Ki, because they are intimately connected, though on a different plane.  If someone has a troubled spirit it would disrupt thier ki and the result would be imbalance, or an unhealthy individual 
I hope this makes sense to somebody, because even as I type it, it doesnt make sense to me. 

LOL


----------



## bushidomartialarts (Nov 7, 2006)

my (admittedly not expert) understanding is that chi is somewhat external.  it's an energy we bring into ourselves, draw on, manipulate.  much like air.  that would be different from the traditional christian understanding of soul/spirit.

different from my personal understanding of soul/spirit?  not so much.


----------



## ech33 (Nov 7, 2006)

spirit is shen, there r qi is basically the life force while jing is the so-called internal power. btw, qi is also known as internal energy.


----------



## SaiyanPrince (Nov 12, 2006)

Here are some verses from the Bible wich have the word spirit in it.

Genisis 1:2 
      The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The *Spirit*of God was moving over the face of the waters.

Genisis 2:7
      Then the Lord God fromed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the* breathe* or *spirit *of life, and man became a living bieng.


----------



## bydand (Nov 12, 2006)

:idunno: Kind of lost in the translation I think.  

My thoughts are simple on this.  There is a difference between Chi/Ki/Qi and Spirit.  My take is that *Spirit *can be either the outward expression of enthusiasm for the event or person, or it can be that "inner" self, proscribed in one form or another in just about any religion.  *Chi *would be the energy felt inside of each, that can be focused toward another.  Not in the knock 'em down fashion, but in the intent you can feel toward yourself from someone else, either good or bad.

Just my ideas, not asking anybody to agree.  It is just the way I use to define the two for myself.


----------



## ech33 (Nov 16, 2006)

chi and spirit are not the same. there are always a note "chi/spirit/and jing" as these 3 r related but not the same thing.


----------



## bushidomartialarts (Nov 16, 2006)

SaiyanPrince said:


> Here are some verses from the Bible wich have the word spirit in it.
> 
> Genisis 1:2
> The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The *Spirit*of God was moving over the face of the waters.
> ...



that's an interesting point, and we could start a whole 'nother thread on interpretations of the face of god and whether or not it's incompatable with buddhism or even hinduism.  

but i think you'll agree that that usage of the word spirit is somewhat different from when we say 'spirit' as a synonym to 'soul'.

still, it does get one to thinkin'.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 16, 2006)

ech33 said:


> spirit is shen, there r qi is basically the life force while jing is the so-called internal power. btw, qi is also known as internal energy.


 



SaiyanPrince said:


> Here are some verses from the Bible wich have the word spirit in it.
> 
> Genisis 1:2
> The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spiritof God was moving over the face of the waters.
> ...



I think you have a bit of a Western versus Eastern definition bit of confusion going on here in this post as to what Spirit and Qi are. From a Western point of view spirit can mean soul or the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul. 

But you are asking about a Chinese term used in Chinese Medicine, Martial arts and Qigong.

In Chinese basic Qigong theory is;

Shen = spirit
Jieng = Essence
Qi = internal energy

Qi would not be considered spirit or Shen in Qigong, CMA or Traditional Chinese Medicine, although Shen does control Qi, it is not Qi. 

Thinking in the Chinese terminology with the Chinese definition shen is what keeps you alive and it is what controls Qi, when your Shen is strong your Qi is strong. The root of the Shen is your mind, Yi (aka intention)

Qi come from converting Jieng from the food you eat and the air you breathe as well as the Jieng you inherited from your parents.

Jieng comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe as well as the Jieng you inherited from your parents.

So going by the Chinese definition used in CMA, TCM and Qigong, qi is not spirit.


----------



## PeaceWarrior (Nov 16, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:


> I think you have a bit of a Western versus Eastern definition bit of confusion going on here in this post as to what Spirit and Qi are. From a Western point of view spirit can mean soul or the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
> 
> But you are asking about a Chinese term used in Chinese Medicine, Martial arts and Qigong.
> 
> ...


 
Very interesting.  So the strength of your Qi is directly related to the amount of Jieng you inherit from your parents?  So somebody who is born with a weaker essense must work harder to develop stronger Qi?  This really fascinates me.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Nov 16, 2006)

PeaceWarrior said:


> Very interesting. So the strength of your Qi is directly related to the amount of Jieng you inherit from your parents? So somebody who is born with a weaker essense must work harder to develop stronger Qi? This really fascinates me.


 
To go off post a bit to clarify:

From a TCM, CMA, Qigong POV; there are various types of Jieng but it is the original Jieng that you inherit form your parents that is the most important, it is the base, if you will, to grow on. This is what must be protected to maintain health and to live a long life. You cannot increase this, what qigong does is improve the quality of it. I understand this as it takes less of it to make more and stronger Qi. 

Sorry, did not mean to go off post, but I wanted to clarify jieng.


----------



## ech33 (Nov 20, 2006)

to develop jing, u must develop qi. 

the jing that u inherited from ur parents will be lot more than theirs, and basically it can be improved further.


----------

