# Is there such a thing as "chinese kenpo"



## MMAfighter (Jul 12, 2005)

Well, i was playing tekken 5 and one of the characters discription says chinese kenpo, yea i know "it's a video game", but then i was reading this thing on Mas oyama(the kyokushin creator) and it had said that his first martial arts was chinese kenpo, so I'm wondering, does anyone know if there is a such thing as chinese kenpo?? and is it similar to Japanese, american, ect. Kenpo


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes, there is such a thing as Chinese Kenpo.
When Masutatsu Oyama spoke of Chinese Kempo, he was referring to what we now call Kung Fu.  He also spoke of Korean Kempo and Taiwan Kempo.  Essentially the word kempo was used at the time to refer to any non-karate asian striking-based art.
Chinese Kenpo is also the name given to the art of Kenpo which was taught by SGM Ed Parker in the 1960's, prior to his development of American Kenpo.  Stylistically, is was practically identical to what is now called Tracy's Kenpo.
At least, that's what my instructor told me.  Further education on the topic by Kenpo seniors will be much appreciated.


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## sandan (Jul 13, 2005)

That the story I've heard also


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## lonekimono10 (Jul 13, 2005)

Randy Strausbaugh said:
			
		

> Yes, there is such a thing as Chinese Kenpo.
> When Masutatsu Oyama spoke of Chinese Kempo, he was referring to what we now call Kung Fu. He also spoke of Korean Kempo and Taiwan Kempo. Essentially the word kempo was used at the time to refer to any non-karate asian striking-based art.
> Chinese Kenpo is also the name given to the art of Kenpo which was taught by SGM Ed Parker in the 1960's, prior to his development of American Kenpo. Stylistically, is was practically identical to what is now called Tracy's Kenpo.
> At least, that's what my instructor told me.  Further education on the topic by Kenpo seniors will be much appreciated.


 you said it right.


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## kenpochad (Jul 13, 2005)

I take chinese Kenpo .

traco is chinese kenpo , this is the history from master packer 
i think he is the highest rank that is living in the traco style 
which i was told it is chinese kenpo

http://www.akka.org/history.htm


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## Sam (Jul 13, 2005)

not saying anything new here - I study tracy's kenpo - chinese kenpo.


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## The Kai (Jul 14, 2005)

Most of what is advertised as "Chinese Kenpo" is not chinese per se, but a hawaiin based art form.


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## Gentle Fist (Jul 14, 2005)

Master Bill Chun's system is Goshin Jitsu Kia Chinese Kempo.  He was one of Professor Chow's highest ranked black belts.


I never heard of Al Tracy's Kenpo reflecting Chinese Kenpo....  And where did Ed Parker learn Chinese Kenpo from?  He only studied under Chow for a very brief amount of time.  Thanks for any answers!


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## Gentle Fist (Jul 14, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> Most of what is advertised as "Chinese Kenpo" is not chinese per se, but a hawaiin based art form.


I agree with that.  Especially over in the States.


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 14, 2005)

ive never agreed with the whole chinese kempo terminology. the movements in kempo(japanese) hardly resemble the movements in chuanfa(chinese), even though it was influenced by it, it definitely is a japanese art.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jul 15, 2005)

Parker was heavily influenced by Chinese teachers, including Ark Yuey Wong, and the San Soo crew. Implemented many of their ideas into his Hawaiian kenpo, giving it a more Chinese flavor. Hence, "Chinese Kenpo", a la Parker. It's been explored on many threads here; a scan through earlier threads will provide some great history on the developments in kenpo here in the U.S. Many posted by Mr. Chapel, who knew many of the key players back in the day.

Additionally, there are many martial arts teachers in Japan who teach "Chinese Kempo", each making dubious claims about the other. In essence (and yes, I know this is an over-simplification), whenever some Japanese or Okinawan guy trains in a Chinese art, he returns to his homeland to teach "Chinese Kempo". The names of the individual ryu may vary, depending on real or claimed heritage/lineage. I trained for a spell with a Brit who travelled to Japan to train with Sato Kimbei. He only ever called it Chinese Kempo. He used to laugh about the ninjutsu crowd glomming onto him as a great hidden sensei of ninjutsu/ninpo. Apparently a lot of politics there about lineage stuff between the bujinkan and it's splinter groups/competitors, and somehow this Chinese Kempo teacher fit into the intrigue. Still not clear on how, but then again...life has bigger fish to fry.

Regards,

Dave


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## Bode (Jul 15, 2005)

Doc wrote this at some point. Notice the Chinese Kenpo, which came after the very Japanese looking 1961 kenpo. 


> Although there were varying degrees of crossover from one evolving method to another, there were at least five clear and distinct philosophies and/or styles created by Ed Parker Sr.
> 
> 
> *1. Kenpo Karate*
> ...


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## kenpochad (Jul 15, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> ive never agreed with the whole chinese kempo terminology. the movements in kempo(japanese) hardly resemble the movements in chuanfa(chinese), even though it was influenced by it, it definitely is a japanese art.


I think the term chinese kenpo is used becouse.
it has less japanese influence or more of the chinese influences have been brouht back to the art . it not pure chinese if it was it would not be called 
kenpo or kempo it would chu'an fa 
i do have kung fu forms in the system that iam taken
i know short 1,2,3,mass attack long 1,2,3,4 -kenpo 
five animals dragon and tiger forms - kung fu 
there are the rest of the kenpo forms in the system i just dont know them at this point.

so i would say there is chinese kenpo 
but its not the ture chu'an fa
and i would say its deffernt than hawaiin kempo


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## The Kai (Jul 15, 2005)

It's all Hawaain Kenpo

Unless your Kata's are The Pinan series and other Okinawan Forms


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## kenpochad (Jul 15, 2005)

Thats like saying Spanish is spanish if your from mexico or spain its the same.

when its not 

or its like me saying japanese ju jitsu is the same as bjj its just deffernt 
not that one is better than the other there not the same


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## The Kai (Jul 15, 2005)

While mexicans use a dilect (offshoot) the spanish language, there are clear traces of the original tongue and reason it evolved the way it did.
Kenpo was devolped by some tough SOB's on the island of hawaii, and has been shined up, repackaged and ornamentalized ever since.


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## kenpochad (Jul 15, 2005)

The Kai said:
			
		

> While mexicans use a dilect (offshoot) the spanish language, there are clear traces of the original tongue and reason it evolved the way it did.
> Kenpo was devolped by some tough SOB's on the island of hawaii, and has been shined up, repackaged and ornamentalized ever since.


So Do you belive that all Kenpo is the same ?
I belive its all a tight net family .I think names have changed becouse there are alot 
of people out there thats say how much can you change some thing befor 
its different .
i do not think that applies to kenpo to a exctent ,kenpo is all about evolution
and teaching what works


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## KenpoDave (Jul 15, 2005)

BlackCatBonz said:
			
		

> ive never agreed with the whole chinese kempo terminology. the movements in kempo(japanese) hardly resemble the movements in chuanfa(chinese), even though it was influenced by it, it definitely is a japanese art.



Do the movements of kenpo resemble the movements of chuan fa of an earlier, pre-Wushu time?  I was told that once kenpo hit Japan, it remained virtually unchanged, while chuan fa evolved, therefore, the two bear little resemblance today.

We could also surmise the opposite, kenpo hits Japan in the 1200s and undergoes 700 years of "japanization" before becoming "americanized," and would therefore, bear little resemblance to it's chinese ancestor.

Yet, chinese is still it's origin.


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## KenpoDave (Jul 15, 2005)

Bode said:
			
		

> Doc wrote this at some point. Notice the Chinese Kenpo, which came after the very Japanese looking 1961 kenpo.



Yep, it takes some credibility from the story that Chow learned from his Shaolin Monk father, yet taught Parker a japanese looking art.  It would seem more likely that most of Chow's influence must have been japanese.


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## Bode (Jul 15, 2005)

I have been archiving to DVD some very old footage of SGM Parker around 1961. The style is definetly very Japanese and I think little would argue this point for those who have seen it. 
  Later, in the 70's and 80's, footage of SGM becomes less Japanese and begins to look more Chinese in movement. 
 Today I watch Dr. Chapel and see very little, if any, Japanese in SL4. Even the old footage of Doc from the 80's is very much Chinese. 

 We could argue where the art originated from for days. However, examining SGM's movement and that of his students we can definetly see how SGM taught a very Chinese influenced art. Some teachers stopped learning from SGM during his Japenese influenced era. Some learned from a more Chinese influenced area.
 When I discuss the SL4 I would actually say that my arts origins BEGIN with SGM Parker and don't bother tracing it back to China or Japan. Parker created something unique and as such, he is the originator. Mr. Parker is about as far back as I need to go. (With respect to those who came before him)


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## MMAfighter (Jul 15, 2005)

So Chinese Kenpo is very different then how feng wei uses it in tekken 5??


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## still learning (Jul 15, 2005)

Hello, Yes there is a thing call " Chinese Kempo". Our Professor from the "Universal Kempo-Karate Associations" ( see Yahoo), uses the term (chinese Kempo to describe our stystem of martial arts. or they say "Chinese boxing".

 It is just a term we use in Hawaii. Professor Adriano Emperado who is credited for starting the Kajukenpo style in Hawaii is our Professor's teacher. Professor Buell than start "Universal Kempo-Karate Schools in Hawaii and we now have over 70 schools around the United States including Barbadous.

 It is just a term we use to describe our system " Chinese Kempo" aka Chinese boxing.... just a name we use..............A student of Universal......Aloha


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## Bode (Jul 16, 2005)

MMAfighter said:
			
		

> So Chinese Kenpo is very different then how feng wei uses it in tekken 5??


 I have yet to see Tekken 5. However, Kenpo does differ from teacher to teacher. Who the game makers  based the moves on would make a difference. 
 As for the existence of Chinese Kenpo. Yes, it existed, as many in this thread have stated.


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## Doc (Jul 16, 2005)

MMAfighter said:
			
		

> Well, i was playing tekken 5 and one of the characters discription says chinese kenpo, yea i know "it's a video game", but then i was reading this thing on Mas oyama(the kyokushin creator) and it had said that his first martial arts was chinese kenpo, so I'm wondering, does anyone know if there is a such thing as chinese kenpo?? and is it similar to Japanese, american, ect. Kenpo


Absolutely, and there are many variations and intrepretations depending upon lineage and when learned. Ed Parker Sr. changed from the heavily Japanese and Okinawa influenced "Kenpo-Karate" of William Chow, after coming to the mainland and dropped "karate" from his art, and began teaching "Chinese Kenpo." This was much influnced by Hung Gar, Five Animal, and particularly, Mok Gar and Splashing Hands. This period even utilized classical Chinese forms with little modifications. "Tiger and the Crane" used to be THE form in Parker's Chinese Kenpo, before he ultimately slipped into and diverted part of his energy to the commercialization and creation of "Ed Parker's Kenpo-Karate." He however did continue to evolve his personal art he called "American Kenpo" which is not represented in motion based Kenpo-Karate.


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## Jagdish (Jul 16, 2005)

Sir:

I am sorry to pester you again but is there any chance that Epak could be influenced by some internal arts like taichi, pakua and/or Hsing-I?

Hope not to bother you.

Yours,

Jagdish





			
				Doc said:
			
		

> Absolutely, and there are many variations and intrepretations depending upon lineage and when learned. Ed Parker Sr. changed from the heavily Japanese and Okinawa influenced "Kenpo-Karate" of William Chow, after coming to the mainland and dropped "karate" from his art, and began teaching "Chinese Kenpo." This was much influnced by Hung Gar, Five Animal, and particularly, Mok Gar and Splashing Hands. This period even utilized classical Chinese forms with little modifications. "Tiger and the Crane" used to be THE form in Parker's Chinese Kenpo, before he ultimately slipped into and diverted part of his energy to the commercialization and creation of "Ed Parker's Kenpo-Karate." He however did continue to evolve his personal art he called "American Kenpo" which is not represented in motion based Kenpo-Karate.


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## Seabrook (Jul 16, 2005)

Bode said:
			
		

> I have been archiving to DVD some very old footage of SGM Parker around 1961. The style is definetly very Japanese and I think little would argue this point for those who have seen it.
> Later, in the 70's and 80's, footage of SGM becomes less Japanese and begins to look more Chinese in movement.


Very interesting Bode.  

I wish I had access to some of this earler footage of Ed Parker so that I could see the evolution of our great system from decade to decade.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Seabrook (Jul 16, 2005)

Mr. Chapel,

From what I gather from Bode, you are much more influenced by the Chinese aspect of Kenpo than the Japanese. 

Just wondering, do you require students to learn Tiger and Crane and/or Book Set? What are your thoughts on these Hung Gar forms? To be honest, I love them, but don't require them since there is more than enough material already. 

Also, if you don't mind me asking, which forms and sets do you require?  

Thanks,

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## lonekimono10 (Jul 16, 2005)

tiger and crane was not from Parker kenpo, eather was book set, i have a 
  paper from when i was doing tracys kenpo way back and the words bok-set
  is on there, of couse it was spelled wrong,  book set is what it should of said.


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## Seabrook (Jul 16, 2005)

Hi Mr. Elmer. 

I was aware that the Tiger & Crane and the Book Set were never required in EPAK, although Mr. Parker did teach them at one time. 
From my understanding, I thought the "Bok Set" was actually its real name, but people later called it "Book Set" or "Panther Set."

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## lonekimono10 (Jul 16, 2005)

i remember asking Dennis Tosden about this years ago, ??? you know you got me wondering about it now, i think he said that it was called book- set
  you know Jason you could be right.


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## Doc (Jul 17, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> Very interesting Bode.
> 
> I wish I had access to some of this earler footage of Ed Parker so that I could see the evolution of our great system from decade to decade.
> 
> ...


Time frame is important because things changed very rapidly. The material Parker was teaching in the fifties was very "Japanese-like" rigid but was still not Japanese, although the influence was there via Hawaii. Parker studied and was ranked simultaneously in, "Kenpo, Karate, and Jiu-Jitsu." Various forms of "karate" were everywhere, along with Okazaki DanZan Ryu Jiu-Jitsu, as well as the Chinese Arts, but heavily influenced by Okinawa Kempo" or what was know then as "te" or hand.

In those days, very little attention was paid to "style." Everyone cross-studied in whatever was available, picking what he liked and adding it to his own style. Parker called it "cross pollination." and it produced many style mixes, of which the original art of substance was actually "Kajukenbo."

Chow taught what he termed "Kenpo-Karate," a mixture of the various Chinese, Japanese, and Okinawan based information he was exposed to, but it was very loose and informal. Chow had no real structure and taught whatever came to mind at the time. "We wasn't very edgemucated." as Parker used to say with a smile; so putting together a structure wasn't part of the process. Chow was about getting down to the bare bones fight. Because of this he rarely touched on forms, although it had been said by Parker that Chow did indeed know various forms from different styles. 

Chow wanted to fight, and worked on straightforward techniques to that end. Chow virtually created the "self-defense" aspect of the arts as a focus rather than a byproduct like most classical arts. Parker always gave him credit for that idea which had not been done before. Traditionally the arts were always built around, and the information passed through formal "sets, forms, and/or kata." Chow began the reversal of that process, emphasizing "technique" first, which was extremely innovative and controversial at the time.

This is where much of the confusion about the origin of "kenpo" comes from. Although Chinese in origin like most arts, its arrival in Hawaii gave it a serious dose of the dominant Japanese/Okinawa influence that Parker started with.

However once coming to the mainland, Parker rediscovered the rich Chinese roots almost immediately in Southern California, going from his first book in 1961 "Kenpo-Karate," to his second book in 1963 "Secrets of Chinese Karate" in a brief two-year period. Even in the commercial motion based era of the seventies, the manuals he wrote and produced specifically took all of Parker's various interpretations back to their Chinese origins of Chuan fa/Chuan shu, and stated so in describing the history of his art.

The confusion has to do with lineages, time frame, and personal preferences. Originally, the Japanese influences were evident in some of the ritual customs, uniform, and language Parker used, but even that was contradictory. The left over right fist horse/meditation position of the Chinese was very evident as part of the formality, but yet many were still doing Japanese bowing while wearing Japanese uniforms out of practicality. Ultimately we had patches that boldly stated "Kenpo Karate," with Chinese writing on either side. 

These cultural contradictions continued into his commercial art because, more than any other Parker interpretation it relied on black belts from other styles and lineages to be successful. Many black belts came over and then began to learn Parker's kenpo-Karate through his loose conceptual guidelines and technique manuals. Many of these black belts kept their previous rituals and customs and interjected them into their interpretations of the Parker Material, even though Parker himself left all Japanese language and customs behind him when he left the "yudanshakai" in favor of an all "American" interpretation perspective of the Chinese Arts he was learning. 

The promotional authority that was originally created for Parker's first organization was its own Japanese "yudanshakai." They awarded "Dan" ranks based on that authority and the Japanese rank structure that permeates even Ed Parker Kenpo-Karate to this day. This is the reason why it has three degrees of brown belt, and why the numbers are reversed counting downward.

Technically, if you're doing Ed Parker's Kenpo-Karate it should be an "English only" approach according to the business plan. However, Parker didn't want to upset the many school owners and the way they were comfortable teaching. Many groups within the organization even chose to not wear the Parker Kenpo-Karate Patch. Parker never made a big deal out these things, and of course it confused people has to how it was "really" supposed to be. 

Truth is the only standard was the one set by the head instructor of a group. Different color uniforms, different patches, different names, different customs and protocols abounded from school to school. Even in the West Los Angeles School, one of the few actually owned by Ed Parker, he allowed students in the eighties to wear the patch of the head instructor who also had his own rituals and method of doing things that proved quite successful. As long as it worked, it didn't matter.

This is why there is no "one Kenpo" and when people speak of the characteristics of kenpo, I always say "Whose kenpo?" Kenpo not only has gone through many spins and interpretations, all by Parker himself, but it also because of these many interpretations has many "splinter branch" interpretations as well. 

The most well known "motion" based system, and its many splinters is based on Parkers business model Kenpo and is arguably the most successful because that is what it was designed to be, unlike his other interpretations. What makes this so interesting is that system it self was a Parker splinter chipped off of his Chinese/American Kenpo branch and molded specifically to sell quick concepts for student interpretation and implementation as a pure business which ultimately overwhelmed him with its success.

That doesn't mean Parker abandoned his very personal "American Kenpo," and he continued to evolve that until he passed. That is why most of his later students and their students were incapable of reproducing the results he achieved. They simply were doing something different than he was.

In the end, many stick to "their" Japanese Roots, while others like Steve Hearring stick to his Chinese Kenpo Roots as taught by Parker. Still others evolved to various points and interpretations with Parker. What they do depends on what they learned, when they learned, how long they learned, and how they interpreted it, and how they continue to interpret it today.

Yes, there was Chinese Kenpo and Parker taught it while borrowing forms, sets, and ideas from the many Chinese teachers and lessons to which he was exposed. Others, like Ralph Castro also taught their own brand of Chinese Kenpo, while others like Nick Cerio leaned toward the Japanese. The Kenpo Tree is indeed a cross pollinated plant with many branches all bearing different tasting fruit. So good, some bad, some poision. What are you eating?  To follow "Kenpo's" evolution you would have to get on and off the main road many times and take lots of back roads. Many dead ends, and roads that end abruptly, only to circle back around again. The road signs are in various languages and you never know where you are until you ask someone for directions, and they may not know how to get you back on the main road - whatever and where ever that is.


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## Doc (Jul 17, 2005)

lonekimono10 said:
			
		

> tiger and crane was not from Parker kenpo, eather was book set, i have a
> paper from when i was doing tracys kenpo way back and the words bok-set
> is on there, of couse it was spelled wrong,  book set is what it should of said.


Technically, it was because Parker adopted them with little modifications making them a part of his Chinese Kenpo era. If you re-read my original post I stated where they came from. By the way, where do you think the Tracy's got them from? Ed Parker of course.


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## Doc (Jul 17, 2005)

Seabrook said:
			
		

> Mr. Chapel,
> 
> From what I gather from Bode, you are much more influenced by the Chinese aspect of Kenpo than the Japanese.
> 
> ...


SubLevel Four is Ed Parker's American kenpo with the applical Chinese Kenpo influences intact. We do not do forms from other styles or from the Chinese Kenpo era. Parker himself dropped those forms and sets years ago in the seventies. Our forms mirror what you know through Short Three I presume, with specialized forms and sets designed specifcally to maximize anatomical efficiency and cultivate internal energy. My Chinese influence is from the same school parker attended. My first teacher was Ark Wong, but of course not at the same time as Mr. Parker. As far as that early footage, I was just looking at it. I have the original 16mm film running on my kitchen table as we speak. I'm reviewing it for Jason Bugg who has requested a peek.


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## Doc (Jul 17, 2005)

Jagdish said:
			
		

> Sir:
> 
> I am sorry to pester you again but is there any chance that Epak could be influenced by some internal arts like taichi, pakua and/or Hsing-I?
> Jagdish


Very much so. Jimmy Woo actually taught Taiji in Parker's school in Pasadena. The influence is definitely there, and very much present in SubLevel Four kenpo.


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## Jagdish (Jul 17, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Very much so. Jimmy Woo actually taught Taiji in Parker's school in Pasadena. The influence is definitely there, and very much present in SubLevel Four kenpo.



Sir:

In Pa Kua their approach to the arts is always in circles no matter we talk about footwork, hits,joint locking or throwing. Everything twists, turns, recoils, etc.

Epak is something similar in the approach: Can you comment on the possible influence of Pakua (if any) on Epak?

Thanks again, sir.  

Yours,

Jagdish


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## Doc (Jul 17, 2005)

Jagdish said:
			
		

> Sir:
> 
> In Pa Kua their approach to the arts is always in circles no matter we talk about footwork, hits,joint locking or throwing. Everything twists, turns, recoils, etc.
> 
> ...


I have no personal experiences with Pakua. Jimmy Woo used to tell us in reference to the Chinese Arts, "It's all the same, its just a matter of how you go about learning it."


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## ZDawson (Aug 23, 2005)

I think that we are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Of course there is Chinese Kempo It is the name chosen by Chow/Parker to represent their Systems. Like naming a business, they sat down and asked the question; What words best represent what we do? Every founder of a martial system has faced this dilemma. Some names in hindsight and without the benefit of the founders explaining their intention, leave us with questions like; Is there such a thing as Chinese Kempo? Creating an opportunity for us to interpretation and create meaning. Many of which have been expressed in this form. Both Chow and Parker went on to change the name of their systems. This is a constant evolution in Martial Arts and should be embraced.


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## evenflow1121 (Aug 23, 2005)

Old thread, and yes I believe there is such a thing.


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## Doc (Sep 12, 2005)

ZDawson said:
			
		

> I think that we are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Of course there is Chinese Kempo It is the name chosen by Chow/Parker to represent their Systems. Like naming a business, they sat down and asked the question; What words best represent what we do? Every founder of a martial system has faced this dilemma. Some names in hindsight and without the benefit of the founders explaining their intention, leave us with questions like; Is there such a thing as Chinese Kempo? Creating an opportunity for us to interpretation and create meaning. Many of which have been expressed in this form. Both Chow and Parker went on to change the name of their systems. This is a constant evolution in Martial Arts and should be embraced.



First Professor Chow used the term Kenpo-Karate, and it is the term Mr. Parker initially used to describe his own art when he first came to the mainland. 

Mr. Parker quickly switched to Chinese Kenpo before moving on to American Kenpo later as his interpretation of Chinese Kenpo. Recognizing some personal problems, Mr. Parker deviated into a commercial version called American Kenpo Karate, and ultimately Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate saving the term American Kenpo for his personal Art and not the motion based commercial vehicle most are familiar with.

Other as well have used the term Chinese Kenpo so it is not exclusive to Ed Parker. Initially when I first came on the scene in the dark  ages, Chinese Kenpo was generic for Chaun Fa.

But there were representations of "Kempo" everywhere. "Okinawan Kempo," Hawaiin Kempo," "Korean Kempo," and even "Japanese Kempo" were common as most of these nationalities struggled to identify their own versions of the generic Chinese Term of "Kenpo" or Chuan Shu as it was known as well in China. The word spelled "kenpo" but pronounced "kempo" was generic outside of China to describe Chinese fghting arts much like much of the Japanese arts were simply known as "kara-te" or emptyhand, and/or jiujitsu.


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## kenpoworks (Sep 12, 2005)

Good to have you back Doc.
Rich


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## Doc (Sep 12, 2005)

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Good to have you back Doc.
> Rich


Only when the pain drops to a roar China.


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## kenpoworks (Sep 12, 2005)

artyon: Hang in there "M.O.C.P."


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## MSUTKD (Sep 12, 2005)

Kenpo - Kempo is the JAPANESE pronunciation of the Chinese characters meaning "Fist Law". The Chinese pronunciation is Chuan Fa. The Korean pronunciation would be Kwon Pub. To say Chinese Kempo is to misunderstand the languages and IMHO misunderstand the art all together.


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## eyebeams (Sep 12, 2005)

In my experience, EPAK forms are much more direct in their application than counterparts in TCMA, which tend to be embryonic movements punctuated with more straightforward applications. Common TCMA sets like tam toi or jingwu lineage mizongluohanquan's gongliquan are not really meant to look exactly the same way in application, to allow for both dedicated body mechanics training and multiple applications. OTOH, there are some TCMA forms that are much more straightforward as well as customary modifications of sets that are designed to bring out certain applications (such as taiji's "frame" conventions). The two approaches definitely met in the middle.


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## Doc (Sep 12, 2005)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> Kenpo - Kempo is the JAPANESE pronunciation of the Chinese characters meaning "Fist Law". The Chinese pronunciation is Chuan Fa. The Korean pronunciation would be Kwon Pub. To say Chinese Kempo is to misunderstand the languages and IMHO misunderstand the art all together.


I spoke of what was out there, not whether it was correct. Chaun Fa / Chuan Shu are both correct. Outside of the Chinese mainland outsiders used the generic "kempo" and simply attached its origin to the term "Chinese."


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## DavidCC (Sep 12, 2005)

MSUTKD said:
			
		

> Kenpo - Kempo is the JAPANESE pronunciation of the Chinese characters meaning "Fist Law". The Chinese pronunciation is Chuan Fa. The Korean pronunciation would be Kwon Pub. To say Chinese Kempo is to misunderstand the languages and IMHO misunderstand the art all together.


It makes for better discussion when you read the messages in a thread before posting your own...


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## BlackCatBonz (Sep 12, 2005)

that takes too much work...


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