# empty hands of Arnis



## krys (Jul 8, 2003)

How are empty hands taught in your system?
Is there a formal empty hand training?
Let us discuss it!

Christian,
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 8, 2003)

Hi Christian,

In Modern Arnis as taught by Remy Presas, there are 8 empty hand forms.  They contain the basic empty hand actions found in the art.  There are, of course, a number of different translations of moves in the forms as well.  Quite a bit of the empty hand training is done as translating stick actions, however, in my school (and I suspect a number of others), I teach a number of karate actions as the basic empty hand training.  Remy Presas had a background in karate and judo as well as Filipino martial arts.  Besides the basic strikes, blocks and kicks, in Modern Arnis locking, throwing and body management is taught as well.

I hope that answers your question and starts off a productive thread as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## haumana2000 (Jul 8, 2003)

In our class, our empty hand methods are based upon several main principals:

Strikes=Matwid Straight jab/cross type Sabitan-hooking Bolo strikes using all tools, forearms shearing etc..
concepts:Waslik-clear and enter
Paewass-Pass and Parry
Balangkas-Framing with the limbs on entry to break his structure"
(Not balangkas as in silat feet movement)
Sira-Destroy and enter or shielding
Tapi-parry and maintain distance for and opening
The hand blade
Pana-the concept of zoning, and chambering one tool, while extending the other to check, strike, or cut an angle.

We work 3 count combinations, into the counter for counter

standing grapple laban buno "wrestling type movements"
to the ground both or one up one down, or multiple vs you on the ground

ICE drills, inctense controlled emtion drill, where a sequence is done extremely slow, with long deep exhalation and piercing focus to  simulate adrenaline, and focus while conditioning a response.

1/2 speed sequence drills, to train the entry or first part of the sequence.

3/4 speed with full impact, whole sequence to a finish.

light sparring with nhb gloves

finish the lesson by visualising the technique sequece for 5 minutes afterward.

reaction and scenario based drills with the agressor in protect suit playing either boxer, wrestler, streetfighter or kicker.


Good thread! hope to see other ideas!


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## lhommedieu (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> ...however, in my school (and I suspect a number of others), I teach a number of karate actions as the basic empty hand training.



There is no empty hand training (of which I am aware) in San Miguel Eskrima - except for "Combat Judo," which is locks and throws against an opponent with a knife.

However, I have found that the empty hand arts that I study (Estacada and Xing Yi Quan) can be taught along-side of a weapons art as long as you explain how the principles can be very similar.  This includes, among many other things, how postural structure can produce power.  I think that this statement is in the spirit of the one that Dan Anderson made above. 

There are also, on the other hand, basic differences between empty hand and weapons arts that need to be addressed.  It is sometimes not the case that "we can do this with a weapon, so we can do the exact same thing with empty hands."  Generally, you have the advantage of working with a long lever when you use a weapon; you are deprived of this _particular_ lever when you use empty hands, so you have to find out which others can be used instead.

I've also studied a little Pekiti Tirisa Arnis and can say that, in this FMA, the empty hand arts are taught systematically and progressively.  I believe that PT empty hands is called "Abcedario de Mano" - perhaps someone with a better understanding of PT could elaborate.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lhommedieu _
> *There are also, on the other hand, basic differences between empty hand and weapons arts that need to be addressed.  It is sometimes not the case that "we can do this with a weapon, so we can do the exact same thing with empty hands."  Generally, you have the advantage of working with a long lever when you use a weapon; you are deprived of this particular lever when you use empty hands, so you have to find out which others can be used instead.
> Best,
> 
> Steve Lamade *



That's for sure!  In my above post, I forgot to include the trapping hands and sinawali boxing (counters for trap and attack approaches).  That's what I get for typing in haste.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## krys (Jul 8, 2003)

Haumana what is the name of the  your style? 


> Strikes=Matwid Straight jab/cross type Sabitan-hooking Bolo strikes using all tools, forearms shearing etc..



I often heard of this bolo punch (i.e. yaw-yan), what is it exactly?

In Cinco Teros Arnis there is no empty hands training i.e. only single stick, double stick and espada y daga. Every student of CT should discover his own  
mano mano system using the skills aquired by  armed combat, fighting against armed opponents while unarmed as well as internal training....

The other escrima style I study is the brother art of a Silat style...... one is not supposed to learn it without being advanced in the Silat system.... Actually it improves the Silat empty hands.....

Thanks,
Christian,
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## haumana2000 (Jul 9, 2003)

We have a large Filipino, and Islander organization here and it is taught via that venue as one aspect of the history, culture, and traditions class.  Since we have members from all over the islands we try to steer away from names since as many of these forums have shown there are favored and non-favored opinions on what it should be called.  So, we use all "three" names.


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## twinkletoes (Jul 9, 2003)

Bolo punch is usually an uppercut.

We also add into the trapping drills some sparring (with destructions, if I'm in charge).

I like to do lots of alive drills, both empty hand, weapons, and combinations of the two.  Lots of "boxing drills" with all the little fun stuff like destructions, traps, locks, throws, and more in there.  Empty hand vs. weapon "competitive" drills.  Fun stuff like that.

Wear your eye protection!

~TT


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## haumana2000 (Jul 10, 2003)

The Bolo punch was popularized  during the 30's by Ceferino Garcia, a middle weight Filipino boxer, who used the characteristic swing of the bolo he learned as a youth intitiated with the same motion, twist of the body, and either uppercut, or downward swing.  He knocked out more than a few of his competitors this way.  From what I understand, a few decades later a Cuban Boxer also used it in the pro ring with great success.  I usually train it as a figure eight motion usually with the lead hand following a jab cross combination.  We practicie a Solo weapon style, so we usually use it lead hand primarily.


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 10, 2003)

Don't forget hammerin' Henry Armstrong was a master of the bolo punch as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## haumana2000 (Jul 10, 2003)

It works great is you use the wrist/forearm portion of the arm to strike the the neck/clavicle then pass the head with the wrist.


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## Cebu West (Jul 10, 2003)

We start every class by warming up with empty hand block check counter, using 3 count as a base then adding in 2 and 4 count. It is great for timing and has dramatically improved everyone's hand speed and reaction time. Great for stopping those sucker punches.

SAL


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## Wes Tasker (Jul 11, 2003)

In Pekiti Tirsia (as taught by Tuhon Bill McGrath) there is quite a bit of empty hand material.  The new student is started out on a block of material called "Tempering & Kickboxing".  This really has nothing to do with kickboxing (ring, gloves, rounds etc.) but is just some basic modified boxing, other hand weapons, kicks, footwork, basic combinations, counter-offensives, etc. to get the student some basic tools, timing, etc.  Along with some arm conditioning exercises - hence the tempering.

The next block is what Mr. Lamade made reference to.  This is the Abcedario de Mano - which are twelve small 'forms' that contain twelve strikes each.  Each form accentuates a certain striking tool, i.e. - slap, fist, elbow, forearm, kick.  Once the form is learned, basic applications of each strike are learned.  Then one is supposed to mix stuff up and explore the applications more deeply, and under less than ideal circumstances....

Afterwards one learns Pekiti de Mano.  This is a set of five entrances against twelve different attacks and a set of twelve takedowns, locks, and throws.  The overall theory being that you use the entrances and finishes from Pekiti de Mano with the Abcedario de Mano material as filler.  Of course, each block works well on its own as well.

Also there are two levels of empty hand vs. knife.  Level 1 vs. sak-sak (hammer grip) and Level 2 vs. pakal (icepick grip).  These contain parrying drills, blade reversals, strikes, takedowns, disarms etc.

And if that weren't enough, there are empty hand vs. stick versions of all the stick vs. stick Pekiti Desarma techniques.  Which equals out to be 30 disarms, 30 counters, and 30 recounters.  The same can be said for the double stick vs. double stick disarms.

Lastly there are some really sweet empty hand applications of some of the drills from 64 attacks, double knife, and espada y daga.

I hope this helps.....

                                 -wes tasker


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## san miguel eskrima (Jul 22, 2003)

> There is no empty hand training (of which I am aware) in San Miguel Eskrima - except for "Combat Judo," which is locks and throws against an opponent with a knife.




The statement above is not true. The mano-mano(Pangamot) in San Miguel Eskrima is based on the concept of Pit-al and Kamang. Although, Combat Judo can be translated to empty hands easily if you truly understand the principles. 

The Espada y Daga/Punta y Daga and Estokada training methods transcends to empty hands based on the concept of Pit-al and Kamang. For example, the progression is from abesedario, pit-al, bad-ay positioning and you have techniques such as Bag-id, Til-Til, Hapak, Ligwat/Butad to name a few.


Sinugdanan ug Kataposan, Mabuhay,

Ramon Rubia--Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima Association, USA
Doce Pares International, California Chapter


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## lhommedieu (Jul 27, 2003)

I am gratified to learn that there is empty hand training in San Miguel Eskrima, and would be interested in learning more about it.  The eskrima that I learned from Tom Bisio did not contain either an empty hand vs. empty hand or daga vs. daga component, but concentrated exclusively on the espada y daga aspect.

As I implied above, whenever students ask me about empty hand training, I show how espada y daga techniques can be adapted to the empty hand principles that I have learned from other arts.  

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## LAKANPOPOT (Aug 3, 2003)

WELL, USING ESPADA Y DAGA AS A BASIS TO SHOW FMA'S EMPTYHAND MOVEMENTS IS A GOOD DIRECTION. IN MY STUDIES WITH GM ERNESTO PRESAS OF MANO-MANO A SYSTEM OF EMPTYHAND IN KOMBATAN-MODERN ARNIS (YES THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF THE LEGENDARY GM REMY PRESAS),WE APPLY THE CONCEPTS OF THE DOBLE BASTON,ESPADA Y DAGA, AND DAGA AS A MEANS TO DEVELOP THE EMPTYHAND MOVEMENTS. IN OUR SYSTEM YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF FAMILIAR KARATE HAND STRIKES BECAUSE OF GM PRESAS BACKGROUND IN SHORIN RYU KARATE. BUT THEY ARE ALSO SIMILAR TO THE MOVEMENTS OF THE STICK. WE ALSO HAVE LOCKING TECHNIQUES SIMILAR TO JUJITSU BECAUSE OF GM'S BACKGROUND IN JUJITSU. MANO-MANO IS  A GREAT EMPTYHAND SYSTEM. WE APPLY TRAPPING,LOCKS, ESCAPES, TAKEDOWNS AND MOST IMPORTANT LEARNING HOW TO FLOW! BECAUSE ALL THE MOVEMENTS YOU LEARN IS USELESS IF YOU CANNOT FLOW. WE DRILL ALL OUR MOVEMENTS TO LEARN THE FLOW.
    I ALSO EXPERIENCED PAGAMOT FROM MANONG CACOY. WHICH IS BASICALLY USE OF EMPTYHAND MOVES WITH LOCKS AND TAKEDOWNS. 
   GM "TATANG ILLUSTRISIMO ALSO TAUGHT SOME EMPTYHAND. BUT MOSTLY TAKEAWAYS OR DISARMS, LOCKS AND TAKEDOWNS. BUT HE WAS A VERY PRACTICAL FIGHTER AND  HE SHOWED EMPTYHAND MOVEMENTS.
  MASTER SIOC GLARAGA OF KALAKI ARNIS TAUGHT PAMAYHON(VISAYAN FOR MANO-MANO) HE TEACHES ANGLES OF ATTACK AND FLOW OF DEFENSE. 
ALL THESE GREAT TEACHERS USED THE CONCEPTS OF THE WEAPON'S MOVEMENTS IN THEIR EMPTYHANDS. IF YOU WILL ALSO NOTICE THE VISAYANS ALSO LOVE BOXING. AND MOST ARNISADORS ARE BOXERS OR ADAPT BOXING. 
  AND BEFORE I FORGET CHECK OUT PANUNTUKAN AS TAUGHT BY THE LATE TED LUCAYLUCAY. ALSO TAUGHT BY GURO DAN INOSANTO. IT HAS A LOT TO OFFER. I HOPE THIS HELPS.


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