# A question for Police Officers...



## Satt (Nov 3, 2005)

I know you guys/gals probably get this kind of question all the time, but what would you as a "cop" recomend for a legal self defence weapon??? I live in Tennessee and I think they are pretty weapon friendly here. Also does anyone know of a really good website for every weapon legality in certain states??? I would appreciate the info. Thanks in advance.


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## Tgace (Nov 3, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I know you guys/gals probably get this kind of question all the time, but what would you as a "cop" recomend for a legal self defence weapon??? I live in Tennessee and I think they are pretty weapon friendly here. Also does anyone know of a really good website for every weapon legality in certain states??? I would appreciate the info. Thanks in advance.


 
What can you legally carry in your state?


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## Gary Crawford (Nov 3, 2005)

Hi Satt, I am not a cop,but having lived in Tennessee for the last ten years,I can tell you this: There is no such thing as a  "legal weapon". It's all at the descretion of the judges and prosicutors. As far as what is legal to carry,anything that has a non-combative use is ok. It all depends on the situation and what mood the judge is in. I hope this helps.


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## Satt (Nov 3, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> What can you legally carry in your state?


 
Well, I guess that's part of the question. The other part is what is your recomendation as far as what to carry out of the selection of legal things. In other words...what would be the least likely thing that could get me in trouble and would still be effective in self defence??? I have been really curious about this lately. I could go through the whole concealed weapon permit thing, but I want to carry something anyway you know. I hope that cleared up my questions. It might have made it worse though.


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## Tgace (Nov 3, 2005)

Id have to know the "legal things" you would consider first then I guess....


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## Martial Tucker (Nov 3, 2005)

Certainly not to be confused with the effectiveness of a handgun. knife, or even a cane, but my favorite "non-weapon/weapon", is a simple plastic comb. Usually the cheap, unbreakable black ones that bend easily are the best. The kind that has a large "tooth" on either end. Hold it so that one end sticks about half-way out of your hand, with your index finger along the "spine". If someone grabs you, you can dig the large end tooth into their hand or forearm, or their ribs, or rip it across their face/eyes. This will absolutely slice their face open, creating a lot of blood to scare or blind them. I usually wear painter jeans with a thigh pocket, and I always have a comb in there, even though I don't need it for my hair. No cop or judge in the world would question you carrying or using this. Again, this is no substitute for a real weapon, but it's cheap, effective in a lot of situations, and "safe" for you.


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## Satt (Nov 3, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Id have to know the "legal things" you would consider first then I guess....


 
Anything really. I was kinda thinking of stuff like Kubotans, tazers, pepper spray, ink pens, etc... stuff like that. What would be the most recomended of the small concealables like these??? I've thought of getting a small pistol with a permit, but that's so expensive...


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## Tgace (Nov 3, 2005)

Are Tasers legal for civ. carry where you are? 

Sprays work great too. Of course if all that stuff is legal, carry them all. Kuboton on the key ring, spray in pocket, pen in shirt pocket...etc. etc.


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## arnisador (Nov 3, 2005)

When I lived in California I had to take a (one-day) course at the local community college to get a permit to carry chemical spray.


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## shesulsa (Nov 4, 2005)

Thing is, if an altercation takes place and you defend yourself using martial knowledge, you may then be required to register yourself as a deadly weapon in the precinct where you live and possibly where you work, and possibly in the precinct where you defended yourself with your hairstyling tool or other substitute weapon.


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## Satt (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh lord...I guess i'll just have to REALLY practice my taijustu more. :idunno:


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## MJS (Nov 4, 2005)

Your best bet is to contact your local police dept. and inquire with them.  They should be able to tell you what is legal/illegal.

Mike


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## BlueDragon1981 (Nov 4, 2005)

I have a question .... I'm being serious about this too. I mean no disrespect to cops...but why are small town cops so arrogant.


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## Grenadier (Nov 4, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I know you guys/gals probably get this kind of question all the time, but what would you as a "cop" recomend for a legal self defence weapon??? I live in Tennessee and I think they are pretty weapon friendly here. Also does anyone know of a really good website for every weapon legality in certain states??? I would appreciate the info. Thanks in advance.


 
I am not a law enforcement officer, but I can still give you a few suggestions.  

My suggestion would be to carry around a pocket knife.  Despite the term "pocket knife," a good quality lockback / folding knife, such as a Spyderco Delica (2 7/8" blade) or a Spyderco Endura (3 7/8" blade), would be an excellent tool for opening up boxes that could also be used as a wonderful personal defense weapon.  

In your state, Tenneessee, such folding knives are perfectly fine, as long as their blade lengths do not exceed 4".  

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/tn.txt

http://www.donath.org/Rants/StateKnifeLaws/

Very easy to carry, and slips into your front pocket quite nicely.  It's also very easy to deploy, since all it takes is a single hand, using the thumb in the trademark thumb hole, to open.  Much faster than trying to fiddle around with a balisong / butterfly knife, and Spyderco guarantees them for life.  

Some people would suggest jumping through the hoops to get the permit to carry around a baton.  In order to do this, you need training, and a certificate issued by the authorized trainer (ask your local police dept on how to get one).  That's fine, but even the best of collapsible batons are a bit bulky for concealed carry.  

http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/printthread.php?t=1433


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## Cryozombie (Nov 4, 2005)

What about a leatherman?  Its SO much more like a tool... but those needlenose tips on the pliers are plenty sharp...


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## shesulsa (Nov 4, 2005)

BlueDragon1981 said:
			
		

> I have a question .... I'm being serious about this too. I mean no disrespect to cops...but why are small town cops so arrogant.


Because some of them trained in the big city.  Actually it seems to be a sweeping problem. While not all cops are arrogant, I have only met one or two who weren't.  It's sad and unnecessary, but I think it might be a by-product of the nature of their job, so ... I try really really really hard to be understanding.


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## shesulsa (Nov 4, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> What about a leatherman? Its SO much more like a tool... but those needlenose tips on the pliers are plenty sharp...


Very commonly used as a weapon, is it not?  Can't get on a plane with one, but you can get on plane with a comb or steel pen.


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## Martial Tucker (Nov 4, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Thing is, if an altercation takes place and you defend yourself using martial knowledge, you may then be required to register yourself as a deadly weapon in the precinct where you live and possibly where you work, and possibly in the precinct where you defended yourself with your hairstyling tool or other substitute weapon.



The problem in the area where I live (Chicago) is, that even though some items might be legal to carry, e.g, kubotan, those items are still considered in local courtrooms to be "weapons by design", and as a trained martial artist you are scrutinized much more harshly if you use such a weapon on a "poor, unsuspecting assailant". I certainly agree with the old "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" adage, but we have had several local police/detectives train at our school, and when this topic is discussed, the unfortunate consensus is that, as martial artists in our area, it is better _from a legal standpoint _to carry items that are not designed to be weapons, but can be used as weapons. That's certainly not to say it's better from a self-defense standpoint. Obviously, the final decision on what to carry should depend on both local laws and the risks of the area in which you intend to frequent.


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## searcher (Nov 4, 2005)

I am not sure you should concern yourself with which weapon to carry or to become familiar with.   You should first study and understand the use of force for a certain situation.    It does not matter if you use a gun, knife, or a rolled up newspaper.    If you use it to bring harm to another individual you will have to answer for your actions.   If you are in the right, you may still have to pay either with time in court defending your actions or with money paying the person for the harm you brought to them.    If you carry a weapon you are more likely to use and not always for the better.    Make sure that no matter what you decise to carry you are very familiar with it and that you know what you are getting yourself into if you pull it.


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## Martial Tucker (Nov 4, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Very commonly used as a weapon, is it not? Can't get on a plane with one, but you can get on plane with a comb or steel pen.



Yep....or a cane, or an umbrella, which can both inflict a lot of damage. 

Another emergency weapon of sorts on a plane is an empty soda can, which, with a little practice, can be torn in half and fashioned into a sharp weapon in
about 3-5 seconds. Certainly not as effective as a real blade, but better than nothing, and potentially very damaging.


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## shesulsa (Nov 4, 2005)

Martial Tucker said:
			
		

> Another emergency weapon of sorts on a plane is an empty soda can, which, with a little practice, can be torn in half and fashioned into a sharp weapon in
> about 3-5 seconds. Certainly not as effective as a real blade, but better than nothing, and potentially very damaging.


In fact, soda is served on the plane and you can ask for them to leave the can.  You also could buy your own can of soda at an airport shop and carry it on.


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## Tgace (Nov 4, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Thing is, if an altercation takes place and you defend yourself using martial knowledge, you may then be required to register yourself as a deadly weapon in the precinct where you live and possibly where you work, and possibly in the precinct where you defended yourself with your hairstyling tool or other substitute weapon.



If you are joking please forgive me, but the "registration" thing is a myth...although it would be tempting to screw around with a person who came to the station to do so. 

http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html


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## AdrenalineJunky (Nov 4, 2005)

Satt said:
			
		

> I know you guys/gals probably get this kind of question all the time, but what would you as a "cop" recomend for a legal self defence weapon??? I live in Tennessee and I think they are pretty weapon friendly here. Also does anyone know of a really good website for every weapon legality in certain states??? I would appreciate the info. Thanks in advance.


 
Carry a bag of dog poop around with you. If someone attacks you, rub it on your hands and chase them. Sorry, I couldn't help it. :karate:


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## shesulsa (Nov 4, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> If you are joking please forgive me, but the "registration" thing is a myth...although it would be tempting to screw around with a person who came to the station to do so.
> 
> http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html


Really?  I'll have to find the case in California where a female martial arts student who went balls out on an attacker was required to register - even quoted the cop.


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## Tgace (Nov 4, 2005)

Heres a good article on the subject...

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=460


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## Solidman82 (Nov 4, 2005)

To get back to the original topic. I am quite skilled in nunchaku and if you have any talent with the weapon I recommend this to you. 

A keychain. 

I carry the keychain I got from my highschool for graduation, with the long strap. Put the right keys and weight on the end and you've got a cutting, speedy, and elusive weapon that you need for day to day life. If you get skilled enough you can use it as a grappling weapon (mostly for chokes).


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## Grenadier (Nov 5, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Really? I'll have to find the case in California where a female martial arts student who went balls out on an attacker was required to register - even quoted the cop.


 
Urban legend.  

The only time that something has even come close, is when certain legislators (not on a national level) attempted to foist such registration schemes in their chambers, but to no avail.  Such attempts either simply died in committee, or the sponsor withdrew them.


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 6, 2005)

BlueDragon1981 said:
			
		

> I have a question .... I'm being serious about this too. I mean no disrespect to cops...but why are small town cops so arrogant.


 Let me guess...you had a recent confrontation with the police.  If it's a small town cop we have a problem with, it becomes "ALL" small town cops.  If it was a large city, it becomes "ALL CITY COPS".  If someone has a problem with "ALL COPS", the problem may actually be them. Most people go through their lives with very little contact with the police.  Those who complain to me all the time about how the police treat them are....usually criminals.  A single bad contact with one officer should not be considered indicative of all police.  Multiple bad contacts with numerous officers may mean someone should change their lifestyle.


On the topic of weapons...i've always found carrying my marbles around in their leather bag makes a good weapon...or become a rock collector.  Heck, carry a bar of soap in one pocket and pair of socks in the other.   A pad lock and a sock work equally well, and don't draw any undue attention until needed.


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## sgtmac_46 (Nov 6, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> Because some of them trained in the big city. Actually it seems to be a sweeping problem. While not all cops are arrogant, I have only met one or two who weren't. It's sad and unnecessary, but I think it might be a by-product of the nature of their job, so ... I try really really really hard to be understanding.


 The problem often is the circumstances with which people come in contact with the police.  For example, if you happen to be a by-stander at an altercation at a bar...you also happen to be a little intoxicated...and you're standing around with 10 other people, and you approach the officer to be "helpful" and he orders you to stand over on the side walk, you might get the idea that he's being "arrogant".  You also might be wrong.  That kind of misunderstanding happens all the time.   People mistake the fact that officers are trained and MUST be in charge in a given situation, with arrogance.  

Apparently some people have the idea that they should be able to do and say whatever they want with an officer around, and not have any repercusions.  That includes continuing to fight with their spouses, yell at the neighbor, threaten to assault people, and resist arrest.  

Often times if people look at a situation that they felt a police officer was being "arrogant" in, they would find, if they watching other people in the same situation, that THEY were the ones who were actually being "arrogant".

Anyone who wants to know both sides of the story should do a few ride-alongs at a local department before they jump conclusions about what officers should and should not do in a given situation.


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## Ceicei (Nov 6, 2005)

Satt,

Check on http://www.packing.org (if you haven't done so already) and select your state.  It will give you a link to your state's code/regulations as well as a summary of what things are legal/illegal to carry.  Good luck.

- Ceicei


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## arnisador (Nov 6, 2005)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Check on http://www.packing.org



Interesting site, thanks!


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