# Mechanics and combat applications of Poon Sao



## Bino TWT (Jul 1, 2018)

It's not just a roll...


----------



## KPM (Jul 1, 2018)

But who strikes like that???


----------



## Martial D (Jul 1, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> It's not just a roll...



Chun vs Chun sure.


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> It's not just a roll...



The one thing I agree with here is keeping a tight centerline. I notice a lot of wide gaps in rolling in switching videos that I’ve seen.

Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao. It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.

Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 1, 2018)

lansao said:


> I notice a lot of wide gaps in rolling in switching videos that I’ve seen.



You may have been viewing other branches of WC. For example, I think the Vietnamese rolling platform / chi sau is quite wide and circular and may appear to have "wide gaps" (as you say) compared to say a Yip Man platform...



lansao said:


> Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao.



...maybe to you and how you were taught in your lineage(?)...



lansao said:


> It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.



But for other lineages, this DRILL is to develop completely different things. I.E. our WSL friends have a different take on it. The Duncan guys use it to develop covering ideas. Some use it to develop the punch. 



lansao said:


> Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.



I've no clue what a naruto is...but the drill is abstract in nature. Kind of like saying..."a boxer doesn't punch like he trains a speed bag"; but he is training an attribute that applies to his ring bouts.


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> You may have been viewing other branches of WC. For example, I think the Vietnamese rolling platform / chi sau is quite wide and circular and may appear to have "wide gaps" (as you say) compared to say a Yip Man platform...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Naruto is a comic book about villages of ninjas.

I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.

That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.

Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 1, 2018)

lansao said:


> *I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.*
> 
> That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.
> 
> Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.



Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not. As you said above...context matters. And how different WC/VT/WT practitioners 'define' things in their own system. Another example for you: WSL guys basically laugh at contact sensitivity training and instead focus on developing their punch via the elbow etc etc...my point is...they (the OP's lineage) and the WSL guys all trace back to Yip Man. 
Some prefer to yield, others think that is a gross misinterpretation of WC's basic ideas and fighting strategy. Go figure. It's like different flavors of the same ice cream


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not. As you said above...context matters. And how different WC/VT/WT practitioners 'define' things in their own system. Another example for you: WSL guys basically laugh at contact sensitivity training and instead focus on developing their punch via the elbow etc etc...my point is...they (the OP's lineage) and the WSL guys all trace back to Yip Man.
> Some prefer to yield, others think that is a gross misinterpretation of WC's basic ideas and fighting strategy. Go figure. It's like different flavors of the same ice cream



Would you defend a punch like this guy?


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not.



Strongly asserting, regardless of what art you study, knowing how to react to incoming pressure in a fight by training contact sensitivity is hugely beneficial to your ability to defend yourself. 

Your opponent(s) won’t always be in your weight class and you’ll need to know how to interpret movement through touch to avoid fighting force with force.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 1, 2018)

lansao said:


> Would you defend a punch like this guy?


I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would, if I was doing a chi sau 'spar' with another WC guy. Otherwise, no because I like my teeth.


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

Martial D said:


> I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would, if I was doing a chi sau 'spar' with another WC guy. Otherwise, no because I like my teeth.



I like my teeth too. Sorry if I’m being aggro here but this video rubbed me really wrong for some reason.

Is “chi sao sparring” something people do? Versus sparring sparring? With people who practice different things?


----------



## Martial D (Jul 1, 2018)

lansao said:


> I like my teeth too. Sorry if I’m being aggro here but this video rubbed me really wrong for some reason.
> 
> Is “chi sao sparring” something people do? Versus sparring sparring? With people who practice different things?


Sure, we used to do a lot of chi sau sparring. It's only really sparring within the rules of the game though, I don't think I would bust out a bong sau to back fist in an actual fight lol.

For us it was simply an alive and fun way to build sensitivity.


----------



## lansao (Jul 1, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Sure, we used to do a lot of chi sau sparring. It's only really sparring within the rules of the game though, I don't think I would bust out a bong sau to back fist in an actual fight lol.
> 
> For us it was simply an alive and fun way to build sensitivity.



Cool, I’m picking up what you’re putting down. We would call that (or something like it) random chi sao. Mixing it up from more structured sets (don, 8-step, core sets).

Separately we would spar spar with protective gear. Micro-spar to zoom in on specific battle drills at fight range/intensity and random sparring to develop confidence. We’re always encouraged to get out there and practice with other arts.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 10, 2018)

Wow, I've been away for a while... soooooo much to respond to lol. I'll try to work through all of these comments...

Remember guys, I said this is the mechanics of MY Poon Sao, not "You must fight exactly like this". This is the mechanics of how and why, the ideology and theory behind it.



KPM said:


> But who strikes like that???


Strikes like what? Cutting angles on a punch from the outside? You should be able to punch anywhere from anywhere...



Martial D said:


> Chun vs Chun sure.


It's Chi Sao. Duh.



lansao said:


> Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao. It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.
> 
> Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.



This video is highlighting ONE aspect of Chi Sao: Poon Sao. Something that is often neglected and improperly executed. Yes, Everything should have an application of sorts, or it's pretty useless. FYI, a cutting punch from the outside would stop a straight punch to the teeth, if that is the tool to utilize at that particular moment...

That said, Naruto doesn't use a vertical punch, he does Karate.



lansao said:


> I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.
> 
> That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.
> 
> Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.



How does this not pass your "sniff test"? I was pretty clear in the explanation. I'm definitely open to hearing your interpretation on Poon Sao. We are practicing sensitivity and yielding, that's where the roll comes from. Did you actually listen to the video? How do you do Poon Sao?



lansao said:


> Would you defend a punch like this guy?


POOOONNNNN SSAAAAAAOOOOO!!! The title of this video isn't "How to defend a punch". This is NOT a sparring video. Geez, lighten up dude. Lansao, I would love to check out some of your Chi Sao videos.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 10, 2018)

Laosao, our Texas Wing Tsun beach retreat is next month, you're more than welcome to come bro. We can train and exchange ideas and have a good time. I'll show you my way, you can show me yours, and we can both learn something. It's a win-win.


----------



## lansao (Jul 10, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Wow, I've been away for a while... soooooo much to respond to lol. I'll try to work through all of these comments...
> 
> Remember guys, I said this is the mechanics of MY Poon Sao, not "You must fight exactly like this". This is the mechanics of how and why, the ideology and theory behind it.
> 
> ...


Hey, sorry about my comments man. I was being unusually and unnecessarily snarky/di**ish.


----------



## lansao (Jul 10, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Laosao, our Texas Wing Tsun beach retreat is next month, you're more than welcome to come bro. We can train and exchange ideas and have a good time. I'll show you my way, you can show me yours, and we can both learn something. It's a win-win.


That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Where at? Galveston?


----------



## Martial D (Jul 10, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> It's Chi Sao. Duh.



Sure. The thing is the first thing you do in that video is talk about what is useful in a "fight", not what is useful for chi sau.

Hence my comment.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 10, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Sure. The thing is the first thing you do in that video is talk about what is useful in a "fight", not what is useful for chi sau.
> 
> Hence my comment.



Punch, Bong, Taan, Fook, yielding and redirecting energy, striking while controlling, Simultanious attack & defense, all applicable in a fight.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 10, 2018)

lansao said:


> That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Where at? Galveston?



Yessir, August 11th. I'll inbox you the details if you're interested. I have to check with the admins if it's ok before I make a public post about it. All are welcome, hope you can make it.


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 11, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Laosao, our Texas Wing Tsun beach retreat is next month, you're more than welcome to come bro. We can train and exchange ideas and have a good time. I'll show you my way, you can show me yours, and we can both learn something. It's a win-win.



More of these should be organized and conducted...maybe Galveston for middle of the country / south; perhaps somewhere on the eastern seaboard...and maybe mid-Cali? That would be cool.


----------



## KPM (Jul 11, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Punch, Bong, Taan, Fook, yielding and redirecting energy, striking while controlling, Simultanious attack & defense, all applicable in a fight.



But that's not necessarily Poon Sau, and your premise was that Poon Sau was useful in a fight.


----------



## KPM (Jul 11, 2018)

*I asked:   But who strikes like that???

You replied:
Strikes like what? Cutting angles on a punch from the outside? You should be able to punch anywhere from anywhere...*

At the 50 second mark you said that if an opponent was doing a swinging double punch from an outside angle then you would counter with a Tan and a Pak .....and that this is how you would end up in a Poon Sau structure/position and  start applying things to the fight from there.  That seemed to be how you were justifying saying Poon Sau could be used in a fight.  Maybe I misunderstood your intent?   But who is going to strike like that?  Even Wing Chun guys don't commonly strike like that.  You certainly won't encounter anything like that from the average guy on the street or even the typical guy from Karate/Kickboxing/Etc sparring.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 11, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Punch, Bong, Taan, Fook, yielding and redirecting energy, striking while controlling, Simultanious attack & defense, all applicable in a fight.


In theory I suppose. It just doesn't work the same when your partner is actually trying to hit you.

Don't get me wrong, I do think chi sau training has benifits, but it doesn't (at least in my experience) translate directly into 'fighting'.  Remaining rigid and upright with your head on center, in the pocket, leaves you addressing each incoming strike with your hands..which is fine if you are Spiderman I guess.


----------



## yak sao (Jul 11, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> More of these should be organized and conducted...maybe Galveston for middle of the country / south; perhaps somewhere on the eastern seaboard...and maybe mid-Cali? That would be cool.



I like it. I nominate you to be in charge of getting these organized.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 11, 2018)

Martial D said:


> In theory I suppose. It just doesn't work the same when your partner is actually trying to hit you.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I do think chi sau training has benifits, but it doesn't (at least in my experience) translate directly into 'fighting'.  Remaining rigid and upright with your head on center, in the pocket, leaves you addressing each incoming strike with your hands..which is fine if you are Spiderman I guess.



There are small segments of fighting where you can use the concepts. For me with grappling with the hand fight to try and take good clinches. Wrestling with punches where I will try to shut down free striking hands by constantly reaching and smothering the arm and where taller fighters reach their hand out john Jones style.

I get smoked by better boxers and wrestlers though. So thinking it is some sort of get out of jail free card is incorrect.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 11, 2018)

drop bear said:


> There are small segments of fighting where you can use the concepts. For me with grappling with the hand fight to try and take good clinches. Wrestling with punches where I will try to shut down free striking hands by constantly reaching and smothering the arm and where taller fighters reach their hand out john Jones style.
> 
> I get smoked by better boxers and wrestlers though. So thinking it is some sort of get out of jail free card is incorrect.


For me it comes into play mostly while jitzing.


----------



## geezer (Jul 11, 2018)

KPM said:


> I asked:   But *who *strikes like that???



^^^^ If all the stars aligned perfectly,* I might!* I mean that angled double punch combo is the last part of our "five thunder punches" sequence in Biu Tze, and does come up in our chi-sau practice sometimes.

More to the point is what Bino said about the energy of a "cutting punch". Yeah just a single punch, but this is about training energy. I didn't get Bino saying that you would literally do poon sau when fighting, I thought he meant, that _this training was useful for fighting_. That's a very different statement!

On the other hand, I disagree that the rolling "steering-wheel" movement is useless. It may not apply to fisticuffs, but it's definitely the best way to deal with the frequent road-rage shootings we have out here. You know, _evasive driving!_


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> More of these should be organized and conducted...maybe Galveston for middle of the country / south; perhaps somewhere on the eastern seaboard...and maybe mid-Cali? That would be cool.


It is in Galveston. 



KPM said:


> *I asked:   But who strikes like that???
> 
> You replied:
> Strikes like what? Cutting angles on a punch from the outside? You should be able to punch anywhere from anywhere...*
> ...


Ideology and theory behind Poon Sao. As opposed to the steering wheel roll....


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> It's not just a roll...


In training, do you allow your opponent to grab on your wrist? How will you deal with that situation?


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In training, do you allow your opponent to grab on your wrist? How will you deal with that situation?



WC has a saying..."when hands are tied up, use your legs" .... so I would do the lift kick to the groin


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In training, do you allow your opponent to grab on your wrist? How will you deal with that situation?



There are many many techniques to escape single and double wrist locks/grabs. (And elbow, shoulder, and head locks as well) If this is a serious question, I'd be more than happy to make a video explaining some of them. 3 of the most used are from SNT and are in the very first student grade of our curriculum. The 5th student grade is anti-grappling, takedown defense, ground defense, and clinchwork. I'm not sure how rusty Geezer is on the sections, but our Section 2 of the Chum Kiu Chi Sao sections is pretty much all Chin-Na locks and escapes, manipulating joints with the energy of your attacker, and how to free yourself should you get jammed up. Chi Sao sections 1 & 5 deal specifically with the type of hold in this picture. Also, Wckf92 is spot on with that answer as well.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

I wish my post of actual Chi Sao got as much engagement as this one did lol. Great conversation though guys, nice to see activity in this section of the forum.


----------



## geezer (Jul 12, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> There are many many techniques to escape single and double wrist locks/grabs. ...I'm not sure how rusty Geezer is on the sections, but our Section 2 of the Chum Kiu Chi Sao sections is pretty much all Chin-Na locks and escapes...



I'm not so rusty that I'd worry too much about this scenario. As you point out, there are a lot of ways to deal with this! And beyond that, if somebody grabs your wrists, WT taught us that _they_ are equally disadvantaged, since when someone grabs your wrist, _their _hand is just as bound-up as yours! Since we train chi-sau we should, in fact, have an advantage. IMO it's in situations like this that drills like chi-sau and pummeling really pay off.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

geezer said:


> I'm not so rusty that I'd worry too much about this scenario. As you point out, there are a lot of ways to deal with this! And beyond that, if somebody grabs your wrists, WT taught us that _they_ are equally disadvantaged, since when someone grabs your wrist, _their _hand is just as bound-up as yours! Since we train chi-sau we should, in fact, have an advantage. IMO it's in situations like this that drills like chi-sau and pummeling really pay off.



lol I didn't mean rusty in skill, I meant rusty on the sequence of the sections lol. Don't want you to think I'm calling you a geezer or anything.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> There are many many techniques to escape single and double wrist locks/grabs.


It's better to prevent a problem from happening than to allow it happens and then try to fix it afterward.

Your opponent grabs on your wrist.

- You think about "escape".
- He thinks about "guide your arm away from his attacking path".

You are already 1 step behind.

IMO, the best way is not to let your opponent to have any chance to grab on your wrist. I see no reason the "grip fight" training should be separate from your "sticky hand" training.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

It's also better to have a contingency plan. No one enters a fight intending to get hit, although rarely does one not eat a punch. Having the mindset that "I'm not going to let him hit/grab/kick me/take me down" is already setting yourself up for failure, because you aren't prepared (mentally, at least, and possibly training-wise as well) for the inevitable.

"escapes" fall under the principle of simultaneous attack and defense, this actually puts the attacker one step behind me. That's kinda the way things work in this system. When someone grabs me, I am in the advantageous position.

In Chi Sao (or a fight, for that matter), there is always the opportunity to attempt a grab or lock.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> "escapes" fall under the principle of simultaneous attack and defense, this actually puts the attacker one step behind me.


Sometime a wrist grab doesn't last very long. You may not even have time to escape it, your opponent already releases that grip.

My concern is When A grabs on B's wrist, B doesn't know why A does that. But A knows exactly why he does that. That's why A has advantage over B. A has a plan. But B just responds to A's plan.

Here is an example.


----------



## lansao (Jul 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime a wrist grab doesn't last very long. You may not even have time to escape it, your opponent already releases that grip.
> 
> My concern is When A grabs on B's wrist, B doesn't know why A does that. But A knows exactly why he does that. That's why A has advantage over B. A has a plan. But B just responds to A's plan.
> 
> Here is an example.



Grabbing your opponents wrist offers you no advantage. It’s a bad idea in the first place. You’re limiting your options.

Someone grabs your wrist(s), you have as many options as they have. For every counter a counter.

Obviously you don’t want to let that opponent get to your wrists in the first place but there is a non-zero probability it will happen in the midst of struggle.


----------



## lansao (Jul 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Sometime a wrist grab doesn't last very long. You may not even have time to escape it, your opponent already releases that grip.
> 
> My concern is When A grabs on B's wrist, B doesn't know why A does that. But A knows exactly why he does that. That's why A has advantage over B. A has a plan. But B just responds to A's plan.
> 
> Here is an example.



Footwork would have helped the dude on the right avoid that bro hug.


----------



## Bino TWT (Jul 12, 2018)

Also, the guy in the video just stood there. He wasn't sticking, he wasn't active. He stood there, let the guy grab him, then let the guy strike him with zero resistance. If he would've stuck, not only would he not have been struck, he would've been on the inside to wedge that punch out with his counter punch, one step ahead of the grabber.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

lansao said:


> Obviously you don’t want to let that opponent get to your wrists in the first place but there is a non-zero probability it will happen in the midst of struggle.


If you rotate your arm the same direction as your opponent's arm is rotating, both arms will never make contact.

IMO, it's important to train how to make arm contact (sticky hand). It's also important to train not to make arm contact (avoid sticky hand).


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> Also, the guy in the video just stood there.


That is just a training for surprise attack.

Your opponent uses wrist grab to guide your arm away from his attacking path. So when he attacks, your arm won't be in the way and give him any trouble.

May be just consider the wrist grab as a more controllable downward parry. The reason your opponent grabs instead of parry because he doesn't want you to borrow his downward force and give him a hook punch on the side of his head.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 12, 2018)

lansao said:


> Footwork would have helped the dude on the right avoid that bro hug.


Many years ago, one of my friend said, "If I keep moving back (footwork), no matter what MA skill that you may use, it will never work on me." His comment had bothered me for many years.

Soon, I found 2 solutions:

1. If you move in attack me, I'll move in attack you at the same time.
2. When I attack you, I'll put a "hook" on your body (such as a wrist grip). When you move back (footwork), you will pull my body into you.

I have always believed that the "hooking" concept is superior than the "sticky" concept.


----------



## lansao (Jul 12, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If you rotate your arm the same direction as your opponent's arm is rotating, both arms will never make contact.
> 
> IMO, it's important to train how to make arm contact (sticky hand). It's also important to train not to make arm contact (avoid sticky hand).





Kung Fu Wang said:


> Many years ago, one of my friend said, "If I keep moving back (footwork), no matter what MA skill that you may use, it will never work on me." His comment had bothered me for many years.
> 
> Soon, I found 2 solutions:
> 
> ...


You can also step to the side of your opponent. Footwork isn't exclusively back and forth, that would be limiting and demobilizing. The guy in that video had tons of options to defend against the incoming hook. He could have slipped down and to the left while hammering the hips with a solid right. He could have tan sao'd left if he was tracking while stepping to the right and capping with his right. He could have literally just thrown both hands straight up into the air and in his center and probably blocked the hit. He could have stepped in and given the opponent a bear hug to buy time and slip away. He could have lop'd the bicep of the incoming hook. He could have stepped south west with central as relative north and lan'd. He could have lead t-stepped to left bil sao while reverse-capping with the right. There are infinitely many different ways he could have addressed that incoming strike with good, mobile footwork.


----------



## lansao (Jul 12, 2018)

You can also tell your friend if they keep moving back they will eventually hit a wall.


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 13, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> IMO, it's important to train how to make arm contact (sticky hand).



...meanwhile...from an earlier post... 



Kung Fu Wang said:


> It's better to prevent a problem from happening than to allow it happens and then try to fix it afterward.
> 
> IMO, the best way is not to let your opponent to have any chance to grab on your wrist. I see no reason the "grip fight" training should be separate from your "sticky hand" training.


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 13, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That is just a training for surprise attack.



Ever pause to think that's what was happening above in the double grab scenario you didn't like? 

Here ya go:



Kung Fu Wang said:


> It's better to prevent a problem from happening than to allow it happens and then try to fix it afterward.
> 
> IMO, the best way is not to let your opponent to have any chance to grab on your wrist. I see no reason the "grip fight" training should be separate from your "sticky hand" training.



Perhaps you should have "prevented" the surprise attack rather than letting it happen(?)


----------



## wckf92 (Jul 13, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Many years ago, one of my friend said, "If I keep moving back (footwork), no matter what MA skill that you may use, it will never work on me." His comment had bothered me for many years.



Wise man once say "man moving backward will always be slower than man moving forward"


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Perhaps you should have "prevented" the surprise attack rather than letting it happen(?)


That clip only shows "how to grab on your opponent's wrist". There are other clips that show

- How to avoid your opponent to grab on your wrist. You rotate your arm the same direction as your opponent's arm is rotating.
- How to grab on your opponent's wrist when he tries to avoid your wrist grabbing. When your opponent rotates his arm the same direction as your arm is rotating, you suddenly reverse your arm rotation.

IMO, all MA skill should be trained at least in these 3 levels.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Wise man once say "man moving backward will always be slower than man moving forward"


Your opponent can move side way in circle too.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 13, 2018)

I find these clips in another forum. IMO, this kind of training is quite useful. You don't have to depend on your arm contact on your opponent's arm (such as the WC sticky hand). The distance is more realistic. The footwork is more nature.


----------



## KPM (Jul 14, 2018)

^^^^^ Those look a lot like FMA's Hubud drills!


----------



## lansao (Jul 14, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I find these clips in another forum. IMO, this kind of training is quite useful. You don't have to depend on your arm contact on your opponent's arm (such as the WC sticky hand). The distance is more realistic. The footwork is more nature.



A lot of stance switching and leg crossing in these videos. Can you find better examples?


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 14, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Wise man once say "man moving backward will always be slower than man moving forward"


Your opponent may move back faster than your advance.


----------

