# Need advice on choosing a school



## HandsOfStone (Apr 28, 2005)

Hi, I have a background in western boxing, but have been interested in martial arts (Chinese styles in particular) for many years. Until recently, I never had the opportunity to train at a CMA school. Now I am in a new city with quite a few choices, and I am hoping someone here can help guide me. 

I guess I should first list what I hope to get out of studying Kung Fu? So here goes, in order of importance to me. 

First, I would like to study art that has some history (nothing very new like JKD or such). Not that there's anything wrong with JKD but I would prefer an older style, as I enjoy doing research and want a style that I can "grow" into.  

Second, I also enjoy reading and studying Buddhism and Taoism (although still have much to learn), so if the style incorporates this (either directly or philosophically) then all the better. 

And finally, of course I'd like to get some very good self defense benefit from it. Although this is not my first priority, as I stated that I used to be a boxer, but I would still want to gain a "total body" method of self defense that I could apply in all ranges of combat if necessary. 

With that being said, I have found some very interesting schools in my area. One is a Wing Chun school (actually there are several Wing Chun schools in my area, but I have heard many good things about one Sifu who studied under Master Augustine Fong). Aside from Wing Chun, there is also a school teaching Hung Ga, Lung Ying, Bak Mei and Yang Style Tai Chi. 

Can someone tell me which of those schools might fit more closely to what I'm looking for? Also, is Bak Mei the same as White Eyebrow? If it will help any, I would like to post the training resume of the Hung Ga/Lung Ying/Bak Mei/Tai Chi instructor. Perhaps someone can read it and let me know if this guy sounds ok.  I know that it's ultimately up to me to decide, but given the choice of styles listed above, what would you personally choose? Would you choose the Wing Chun school or one of the others I listed?

Ok, here is the training resume of the instructor that teaches the multiple styles:

Sifu Peter Pena:
- Began his study of the MA in 1984 under Master Paul Vizzio of the Fu Jow Pai (Tiger Claw System) style.
- 1987 began training under Master Yee Chi Wai of the Tang Fung Hung Ga Kung Fu and Lion Dance Academy.   Achieved Black Belt status in 1990.  Through diligent service his school he was awarded the position as Disciple of the system in 1992, thus receiving the adoptive title name of Yee Bei Tak. 
- 1992 began training Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan under Master Chan Wai Gung
- 1993 continued his development in the Lam Family Hung Ga style under Master Y. C. Wong in San Francisco, CA.
- 1994 began his studies of the Bak Mei style under Master Kwong Man Fong.  In 1996 he was accepted as a formal disciple of the system.
- 1997 began his studies of the Toisan Style Bak Hok style under Master Chu Hui (Zhu Hu Ren) In Phoenix, AZ. 
   1998 began his studies of the Lung Ying (Dragon Shape) and Mok Ga styles under Master Steve Martin in San Diego, CA.                                                                                                 
 In 2004 was accepted as a formal disciple of two systems.
- In his many years of training Sifu Pena has been a successful competitor in the Open Circuit and Chinese Style Specific Martial Arts Tournaments.  He has won many trophies, medals and titles at these events.
- Sifu Pena is also a well sought after Tournament Judge, having held numerous positions throughout the United States.
- He is also a Physical Therapist Assistant and with this brings a unique knowledge of human physiology plus extended knowledge into Oriental Medicine theory and philosophy.
- At present time Sifu Pena offers private and semi-private instruction in:
. Hung Ga   (Hung Family)
. Lung Ying (Dragon Shape)
. Bak Mei   (White Eyebrow)
. Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan (Yang Family system)
- Sifu Pena is also the head Lion Dance Coach of the TWCSA.

:yinyang:


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## HandsOfStone (Apr 28, 2005)

Sorry to post again so quickly, but I found yet another style taught at the school. I guess the school is part of Master Ruhu Zhu's organization.

Sifu Quang Lam

- 1993 began formal training in White Crane Kung Fu under Master Ruhu Zhu in Phoenix, Az. 
Sifu Lam currently continues his practice of White Crane under Master Zhu who currently resides in San Francisco, Ca.

I have no idea what White Crane is but if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it one of the major influences on Okinawan karate?  So many styles, I feel like my head is going to explode.  :uhyeah:


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## clfsean (Apr 28, 2005)

The white crane they practice is the Tibetan brand. A long arm style that bears a resemblance to Choy Lee Fut. This system flourished in Guangdong province. The short hand white crane that influenced Okinawan karate came from Fujian province.


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## clfsean (Apr 28, 2005)

To answer your questions in the order you posed them... 

1) All of the systems that Sifu Pena teaches are not "new" systems like JKD. They all have a rich history from Qing dynasty China & were fighting arts in Southern China, predominantly Guangzhou (Canton) provence. Tried & tested fighting styles.

2) I can't offer about the Buddist/Taoist content of any of them. Hung Ga came from Gee Sim, abbot of a Shaolin temple & teacher of Hung Hei Goon, founder of Hung Ga. Bak Mei/Lung Ying are often considered Hakka arts & I'm not sure of their affiliations. Tibetan White Crane came from Tibet via Tibetan Buddisht Monks, so... 

3) The Hung Ga/White Crane will provide range with fighting since they are long fist systems, while Bak Mei/Lung Ying are short hand systems & prefer to in fight at very short distance. Mind you... the long fist doesn't mean you try to punch somebody from 5 yards away. It's the delivery method. They (Hung Ga/White Crane) also like to get in real close & control things, they just have different methods in doing it.

Sifu Fong is well thought of in the CMA community & anybody that he has granted the title of Sifu to under his banner is generally thought of the same way. There's one sifu in particular in Tempe, Joy Chahaudri (sp?) that is highly thought of for his research on Wing Chun & his hands as well. You could do much worse than Sifu Joy in the area, but he's hard to top.


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## dmax999 (Apr 28, 2005)

If you want history to research and stuff to work on improving for the rest of your life, my suggestion is the Tai Chi.  You will never truly master it, and after working at it for a while you will learn about other styles that you probably wouldn't even consider trying.  In addition, Tai Chi will improve almost any other Chinese style that you may want to practice at the same time. (Don't think it will help with Karate or TKD at all though)

In my old Wing Chun class, we had an ex-boxer that did very well.  The more I learn about my current kung-fu, the more respect I gain for Wing Chun.  It is truly an extremely effective style that is misunderstood by most.  One problem you will have with this is the movements will probably seem un-natural to you and difficult to "rely" on in a real fight.


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## TigerFist (Apr 28, 2005)

Not trying to influence you, but there's also a Wing Tsun school in your area that's a part of Grandmaster Leung Ting's organization. You might want to pay them a visit as part of your overall consideration. 


Here's something I found about Bak Mei (aka Pak Mei or White Eyebrow kung fu):

[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Pak Mei Kung-Fu is one of the few systems that combines both Shaolin and Taoist practices into a single fighting style.  It is classified as an internal and external system that emphasizes the combination of the science of combat along with the Taoist principles of using the chi, or breath, to maximize the generation of power from within the body and to maintain health. In Pak Mei, Chi Kung is incorporated into every aspect of the art, unlike most arts which contain supplemental exercises to develop the chi.[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]
[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Pak Mei is a highly sophisticated, fast and aggressive system that is rarely seen within the realm of Chinese martial arts today. The Pak Mei practitioner uses, geing jak ging, or scared power, a type of explosive power that enables a technique to change quickly from a soft and relaxed movement into a powerful strike upon impact, which to the untrained observer can look quite external, or using brute force.[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]
[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Techniques are executed between short and mid-range distances; hand movements are fast and powerful.  Pak Mei also contains a wide assortment of kicks including: side, front, jumping , and ground fighting maneuvers.[/font]​*[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow](source:http://www.whiteeyebrowpakmeikungfu.homestead.com/[/font]*​
If I'm not mistaken, I recall reading that White Eyebrow kung fu was created to defeat other styles (mainly Shaolin) of kung fu. Anyone know if this is accurate or did I read incorrect information? I'll try to find a source online if I can.

Tai Chi can also be effective in combat too, and as someone said, would be an excellent companion art to study along with another Kung Fu style. It will definitely provide a lifelong learning for you. 
[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Pak Mei Kung-Fu is one of the few systems that combines both Shaolin and Taoist practices into a single fighting style.  It is classified as an internal and external system that emphasizes the combination of the science of combat along with the Taoist principles of using the chi, or breath, to maximize the generation of power from within the body and to maintain health. In Pak Mei, Chi Kung is incorporated into every aspect of the art, unlike most arts which contain supplemental exercises to develop the chi.[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]
[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Pak Mei is a highly sophisticated, fast and aggressive system that is rarely seen within the realm of Chinese martial arts today. The Pak Mei practitioner uses, geing jak ging, or scared power, a type of explosive power that enables a technique to change quickly from a soft and relaxed movement into a powerful strike upon impact, which to the untrained observer can look quite external, or using brute force.[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]
[/font]​[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow]Techniques are executed between short and mid-range distances; hand movements are fast and powerful.  Pak Mei also contains a wide assortment of kicks including: side, front, jumping , and ground fighting maneuvers.[/font]​
[font=Arial, Helvetica, adobe-helvetica, Arial Narrow][/font]​


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## TigerFist (Apr 28, 2005)

I did find this: http://www.geocities.com/ottawakungfu/400Others001A.htm



"In some martial arts schools, Bak Mei is considered to be one of the five elder monks of Shaolin Temple, Songshan, Province of Henan while others suggest that he was a Taoist from the Ermei Mountains in Sichuan Province. He is the acknowledged founder of a Southern martial arts styles (&#21335;&#25331; Nan quan). In some stories, Pak Mei was considered to have allied with the Ch'ing Empire and fought against the Shaolin Temple." 

That's similar to what I recall reading about Pak/Bak Mei, mainly the part about it being used to fight against the Shaolin Temple. If I can find another specific resouce I'll post a link. Keep in mind that doesn't mean Bak Mei is "better" than Shaolin, just that it may have been effective against it.


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## arnisador (Apr 28, 2005)

You've got a nice variety to choose from! Bak Mei is a rare opportunity...but Wing Chun is generally considered good for self-defense.


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## Tiger Steals Heart (Apr 29, 2005)

If you're not certain what Wing Chun looks like, here's a video clip of Emin Boztepe: http://rapidshare.de/files/1492338/Emin_Boztepe_Explosive_Wing_Chun.mpg.html


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## Shaolinwind (May 5, 2005)

dmax999 said:
			
		

> If you want history to research and stuff to work on improving for the rest of your life, my suggestion is the Tai Chi. You will never truly master it, and after working at it for a while you will learn about other styles that you probably wouldn't even consider trying. In addition, Tai Chi will improve almost any other Chinese style that you may want to practice at the same time. (Don't think it will help with Karate or TKD at all though)
> 
> In my old Wing Chun class, we had an ex-boxer that did very well. The more I learn about my current kung-fu, the more respect I gain for Wing Chun. It is truly an extremely effective style that is misunderstood by most. One problem you will have with this is the movements will probably seem un-natural to you and difficult to "rely" on in a real fight.


Heh, it isn't called Grand Ultimate fist for nothing.  They teach members of the leadership program in our school a lot of Tai Chi.  Boring to watch, strenuous to do. I  love it.


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