# Younger students training in a sword art



## Swordlady (Jun 1, 2006)

Something I've observed at the dojo over the past year or so is that it doesn't attract a lot of younger students. We currently have three teenagers training at the dojo (two are college-bound this fall), but from what I've heard, there really weren't a lot of younger students for several years. Most all of the shodan are in their late 30's or early 40's (at least the ones I know), and didn't start training until their late 20's or early 30's.

I was 24 years old when I first started training back in 1996. But I lost contact with my sensei after we lost our dojo space, which is why I have an eight year gap. I also know that I nearly wasn't as dedicated to my training back then as I am now.

Do other dojo also have a hard time attracting younger students? How about yours? If so, what do you think is the reason why?


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## Chris deMonch (Jun 1, 2006)

Now now, I only JUST turned 27.  But then I do seem to be the exception in our group...


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## mantis (Jun 1, 2006)

the kids at my school are pretty young (4-10) and they seem to love the different weapons my school teaches including straight and broad swords.
They just have a problem standing still though.  They are always trying to poke each other, or trying to fence, or keep waving their swords left and right.  that's why you see them do pushups in sword class like all the time.

Just yesterday i realized that one kid who's like 5 started the class not looking like he liked the sword at all, but yesterday he lead the class through the form.  He had it perfectly done. I was amazed when i saw him.  

last bit: i think parents encouragement has A LOT to do with this.


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 1, 2006)

Teens drop by occasionally to watch a class.  It is very rare that one actually joins class, and rarer still for one to be training a year later.  That said, some of our better students started in their teens.


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## Swordlady (Jun 1, 2006)

Chris deMonch said:
			
		

> Now now, I only JUST turned 27.  But then I do seem to be the exception in our group...



But you also said that you were the _youngest_ student for a few years.    And if I'm not mistaken, you're also the youngest shodan in our group.  I *think* I also shared the distinction of being the youngest student during my first time training back in '96.


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## Swordlady (Jun 1, 2006)

mantis said:
			
		

> the kids at my school are pretty young (4-10) and they seem to love the different weapons my school teaches including straight and broad swords.
> They just have a problem standing still though.  They are always trying to poke each other, or trying to fence, or keep waving their swords left and right.  that's why you see them do pushups in sword class like all the time.
> 
> Just yesterday i realized that one kid who's like 5 started the class not looking like he liked the sword at all, but yesterday he lead the class through the form.  He had it perfectly done. I was amazed when i saw him.
> ...



In addition to encouragement from the parents, do you also think that the child's discipline and self-control have something to do with it?  I do think it takes a LOT of self-control on a child's part _not_ to play around with the practice swords with other students.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 1, 2006)

It could have to do with the cost of a good sword.  A younger person, especially still in school, might not have the financial capability to purchase a good quality sword, and parents might not be interested in helping out in this way.  I think this is more true with the Japanese sword arts, as a good Japanese sword tends to be pricier than the typical, lower quality Chinese sword.  I would say that in the Chinese arts, use of the sword is pretty common with younger people, including children, as Mantis indicated.  This is especially common with Modern Wushu, not as common with the Traditional Chinese arts.


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## mantis (Jun 1, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> In addition to encouragement from the parents, do you also think that the child's discipline and self-control have something to do with it? I do think it takes a LOT of self-control on a child's part _not_ to play around with the practice swords with other students.



kids always want to play.  Kids usually do not know what they're doing is wrong or inappropriate unless they are explicitly told (sometimes it has negative effect if parents say one thing and act a different way).  

On the other hand kids are not born evil or bad, and they are not even trouble makers by nature.  But they sure do love to explore things.  That's where parents and school instructors in this instance have to play a huge role.  

Again, i am talking about kids as little as 4 years old.  It does take a lot on their part to understand why it's bad to wave the new toy someone handed them.


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## pgsmith (Jun 1, 2006)

> Do other dojo also have a hard time attracting younger students? How about yours? If so, what do you think is the reason why?


I really don't _want_ to attract younger students. Most kids do not have the discipline, focus, or concentration needed to study the Japanese sword arts. If they don't, they are wasting my time and disrupting everyone else's concentration. I currently have two teenagers in the dojo. I have had quite a few that have come in and watched a class and never come back. I've also had some that have come for a month and then never come back. The problem is that, when you get right down to it, the Japanese sword arts are *boring*. Especially at first when you can't seem to make your body do what sensei is doing no matter how hard you try. In fact, I think it was Ray sensei from whom I first heard "watching kata is about as exciting as watching paint dry". Most young people simply don't have the focus or the patience for it. That being said, there are always exceptions. I've got a young man that just turned 13 that's been practicing close to two years now. He's going to be really good eventually as he has good concentration and tends to be somewhat of a perfectionist. He should be ready for his shodan in another six or eight months.


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## mantis (Jun 1, 2006)

Swordlady said:
			
		

> In addition to encouragement from the parents, do you also think that the child's discipline and self-control have something to do with it? I do think it takes a LOT of self-control on a child's part _not_ to play around with the practice swords with other students.



Oh, i want to mention an incident that happened in class last night although it's not completely related to this thread.  One of the kids (i'd say he's 10) claimed that his sword got broken and he asked for a new one.  
Since our instructors always emphasize the concept of respecting the weapon and not goofing around with it, he made him do 40 pushups and he said he would not give him a new sword until he brings the old one, and tries to fix it himself.  He said i dont want to give you a hard time but i want to teach you the importance of your weapon so you're more careful next times.  I thought that was a smart punishment on behalf of my instructor.


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## Laeticia (Jun 2, 2006)

pgsmith said:
			
		

> The problem is that, when you get right down to it, the Japanese sword arts are *boring*. Especially at first when you can't seem to make your body do what sensei is doing no matter how hard you try. In fact, I think it was Ray sensei from whom I first heard "watching kata is about as exciting as watching paint dry".





> [FONT=&quot]When the beginners class starts, theres always plenty of people, but it was mentioned that teachers can often easily see who will drop out. If someone starts with thoughts about some kind of spiritual training, he will probably quit as the training is very repetitive and physical, and jewels of spiritual wisdom are very very scarce during the training. Trying to have a different hobby than everyone else reaches as a motivation for a bit longer, but even that is not enough to keep one training for very long. To keep going, you must find your own thing from it.[/FONT]


A short quote from my fieldwork on the subject. Iai is boring. The younger you are, the harder it is to concentrate on the repetition of movements when all you get is frustration. 

We have the proverbial exeptions, but most of the guys who seek either to be samurai or to find zen stop coming after one summer. Girls rarely last even that long. But then, we're not even actively searching for new members, so it's not really a problem.


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## socho (Jun 3, 2006)

I'm with Paul on this one.  1) we're not a commercial dojo, so we don't worry about numbers or recruiting.  Enough people to pay the rent on our training space and we're good.  Actually, we often have to turn people away, as there is just not enough room on the floor.  2) our art, as many swords arts, is about effective technique.  Effective technique with a sword often means a killing strike.  Not really the kind of conversation I want to have with a kid, or want to have to explain to a parent.  Most are not ready for that kind of focus.  Or the moral underpinnings that explain why it is not, in fact about, killing.  3) on the other hand, have had one teenager join at 14, still with us four years later.  Definitely an exception. And two of our 20-somethings just made shodan, each with us over two years.   4) discipline and focus is definitely part of it, but it is not simply an age issue.  You have to want it, and be willing to work at it.  For a long time.  Have had people ask for private lessons, so they could learn it 'faster'.  Sorry, doesn't work that way.  5) My ideal student is someone who already has or is working to build a full life.  Not someone looking for identity or a 'way', but someone who has been around and is looking for something for him/herself.  Then I know they will stick around and give something back to the art.  
It isn't about selling it, or giving it away, it is about sharing it, preserving it, perpetuating it.    IMO.

Dave


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