# This has got to be a joke



## fist of fury (May 7, 2004)

Or has Seig's ego gone that far out of control? Surely he hasn't become this arrogant and self important. But I guess if he suspends me for questioning his authori-tah then we know the answer.

*Kaith Rustaz aka Bob-Not only have you broken half a dozen rules, you exceeded your authority as an administrator. Effective 5/8/2004 you are suspended for one week*

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14254&page=6&pp=15


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## LoneWolfandCub (May 7, 2004)

I would hate to think something like this is orchestrated for the sake of manipulating the system in place....but "suspending the owner" reeks of it to me


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2004)

Gentlemen et al,

Technically, I believe it is impossible to Ban the owner via the software. The Admin team agrees to the decisions posted.

The fact that Bob AKA Kaith and myself are willing to submit to the rules, sends the message that the rules are for everyone. 

I honestly did not know I was going to be suspended beginning next week. The staggering was to make sure that proper Administrative support would be available for the board.

Now, did I expect to get some type of reprimand or suspension. The answer is/was yes. I expected something to occur and to be made public.

My intent was to address some issues:

1) Intent versus Impact

2) The Ends do not always justify the means

3) Clear and concise communication, not general and unspecific.

4) Double Standards

5) resolve any other issues if possible.

1) As you can see my Intent may not have been what my Impact was. A prime example of how things can be misunderstood and taken too far. It was not my intent to hurt or upset anyone. Yet, I recognize that might have been the impact. I do not expect to go through life not upsetting anyone at all, yet there are ways to do this. See items 2 & 3.

2) I personally do not think that Nuking the Planet Earth to make sure that no fraud martial artists every exist, is the way to accomplish this task. I believe that you can limit the damage to minimize the collateral damage. This can be done by using item #3 in my mind.

3) The clear and concise presentation of your opinion or data, and not using generic terms such as Martial Artist, or Modern Arnis Players, or Mods or Admins of MT. Some people feel they have to defends the Martial Artist community from Fraudulent martial artists. Yet, if one was to call all martial artist a fraud then that person would have done more damage than good in my opinion. To say all Modern Arnis Players are bad, or trouble makers, also causes problems as people will wish to make it know that it is not all, and there are specific cases if any at all. Just the same as with the Mods and Admins here. I felt like I had to defend that position as well. For the same reasons. Unfortunately, my examples included both specific and unspecific.

4) Double standards bother me. When people demand others answer them or try to dictate policy when they have no authority, and they do not listen to those in the position of authority, or do reply in kind with the same standards when asked of them. If it is fair it is fair. My opinion.

5) The good point from my unspecific comments is that I believe some issues were addressed and resolved as well as they could be.


This is not a slam against anyone involved or not involved. This is Rich, trying to explain his Intent. I agree that may not have been my Impact.

With respect to the Martial Talk Members
 :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (May 7, 2004)

Seig has not gone power hungry. 

His actions are within the scope of his responsibilities as an Administrator here.
My being the owner does not exempt me from my responsibilities as both a member and an Administrator. 

The rules are there for a reason, and admins and mods are not exempt of them. 

The staggering of the suspensions is to ensure that MT has proper managerial staffing in the interim.

My suspension starts tonite.  I will see everyone when it is lifted.


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## someguy (May 7, 2004)

Well at least we now know this site really has checks and balances.


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## Seig (May 7, 2004)

Believe me, suspneding Mods is not on my list of favorite things.  It just amkes more works for me.


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## chufeng (May 7, 2004)

...and I thought things MIGHT have changed over here...but I was wrong.



> I would hate to think something like this is orchestrated for the sake of manipulating the system in place....but "suspending the owner" reeks of it to me


Of course it does...and RP's "I honestly did not know I was going to be suspended beginning next week." is completely believable as he can't remember what he reads anyways.



> Well at least we now know this site really has checks and balances


The checks are the things you don't see behind the scenes...
The balance is always on the side of "nice." They throw a few rocks on the truth side of the scale to make it balance out...afterall, the reason people were suspended was because they weren't nice...Fred Rogers would be proud of all of you.

Open your eyes.

Please close my account, again....

chufeng:asian:


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## wisdomstrikes (May 7, 2004)

Nice.


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2004)

chufeng said:
			
		

> ...and I thought things MIGHT have changed over here...but I was wrong.
> 
> 
> Of course it does...and RP's "I honestly did not know I was going to be suspended beginning next week." is completely believable as he can't remember what he reads anyways.
> ...



Mark,

I did know before the order came down. It was about 7:00 PM last night, when I called Bob AKA Kaith. He said I am glad you called, we have something to talk about. I said ok. He then explained that it might happen and it was up to Seig. I replied that I support any decision Seig makes in this case.

So, sir, I do not like having it be implied that I am a liar.

You may run away if you want.

You may call me names if you want.

As your friend pointed out, I had an agenda, and not even Bob knew it. Why? Because I knew my agenda would cause a problem. 

Yet, I think you find it hard to swallow that I might be truthful here. Because if I am then, it implies that the rest might have a point. 

You may not like me. I accept that.

You may not support MT or anyone associated with it. I accept that.

I also accept that you have a different opinion from me.

I just do not like being told what I know.

I do not like being told to stay out of things because I do not understand. I do not like being told to get out, you do not know who you are dealing with. I do not like people insisting that I listen to their point of view and then refuse to here the counter argument.

It is your call.

I have made my statements. If you wish to call me a liar come out and say it.

Or are you unable to communicate in a clear and concise manner? You have to infer.

Sir, I have no patience for you. I agreed once the questions were answered, that many things were resolved. I see that they are not, on your side. I do not know what I can or do, to accomplish this.


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## chufeng (May 7, 2004)

> I honestly did not know I was going to be suspended beginning next week





> I did know before the order came down.


Rich...do write for John Kerry?

"I did vote for the 87 billion just before I voted against it."



> You may run away if you want


Call it what you want, Rich, I simply can't support this forum...even the mods are deceitful, in their own way (see quotes above).



> You may call me names if you want


I did not call you names...I really suggest getting back on your meds...your paranoia is breaking through again...and you might want to take a course on Reading Comprehension.



> I just do not like being told what I know


Then stop listening to the voices in your head, because I sure didn't tell you what you know.



> you do not know who you are dealing with


...a veiled threat? isn't that against the rules? I am confident that you are NOT a threat to me.



> Or are you unable to communicate in a clear and concise manner?


Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?



> I also accept that you have a different opinion from me.


Damn right !!!



> I agreed once the questions were answered, that many things were resolved. I see that they are not, on your side. I do not know what I can or do, to accomplish this.


I dropped it...
Then certain moderators and administrators decided to pull some of the same crap they did a year ago...if that wasn't you, then I suggest you drop it.
You seem to think that when someone says moderator, they are singling you out...the only thing I singled you out for was your apparent inability to grasp the written language.
...you can't do anything to accomplish making me see things your way...I like to live in the real world...not some construct that is similar to reality but about a half a bubble off.

I have NOTHING more to say...how long will it take to inactivate my account?

chufeng


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2004)

chufeng said:
			
		

> Rich...do write for John Kerry?
> 
> "I did vote for the 87 billion just before I voted against it."
> 
> ...




Mark,

You caught me. I did not know before the day of that I might be suspended. The suspension was official when Seig posted it. I did not get a phone call or a post or message before reading it publically. I was informed it might be yes. Not confirmed. It was up to Seig.

I did not make that explicit. You are correct; it was not clear and concise. I do try though and I do listen to you. As I have said before it is those I disagree with that I can learn the most from.

As to the veiled threat, that was not meant towards you. Those were the words written to me a year ago by some involved. If it was not you then, do not take it personally. I did not threaten you then and I am not know.

I would like to say the meds comment made me laugh. Thank You. It truly is funny, even though it is directed at me. I admit that the line was a good one. In particular with the voices in my head, line. I have used them before myself. Not towards you or others, only in trying to make a joke about myself, when I make a mistake.

So yes technically I knew a few hours before. I did not know at the beginning, as was implied. It was not a master plan. It happened. I would make a joke about paranoia, only someone stole my good lines. Oh well. 

As no one else has processed your request I will. I do wish it could be otherwise.


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## RRouuselot (May 7, 2004)

Wow! 

In almost a year since I left this board has not grown 1mm out of it's old ways...... 

What is it with this place that attracts fakes and frauds, egos and attitudes more than most other boards?

Answer:

(I will try not to be offensive)

The Moderation and Admin....(some anyway)......

How so you may ask..........they have some serious flaws in the policy....or rather their execution of policy. 
When I was here last year it seemed that the more bogus you were the more slack you got when other members put the heat on to ask about specific claims. Those members were allowed to call other members names.........I was called an *** or a jackass by a member on several occasions.......nothing happened to them for doing so. That member had some of worst forged dan rank certificates I have ever seen. 
I was threatend with physical violence by a member on several occasion and nothing was done about it oddly enough he was Bob Hubbard's friend/teacher.......Members were not permitted to post "polls" about one another and yet a Mod started a poll on me. 

Double standards? Somethin' messed up with that?
Yeah I guess!

Granted it's your board and you can play anyway you like, just don't expect the level or quality of play to be very high with these kind of standards.

I never expect quality discussion (once or twice there has been, but seldom is) here as I see on a few other boards and the main reason is porr Moderation by a few folks and double standards by many.


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## someguy (May 7, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Wow!
> 
> In almost a year since I left this board has not grown 1mm out of it's old ways......
> 
> ...


You don't like this place then don't come here.  
Simply put Kaith is allowing himself to be suspended for the next week this shows that  whole double standards thing has problems.  Then again there are double standards evrywhere.  That is life.  Some stuff though only looks bad.  Let us say for example "I did vote for the 87 billion just before I voted against it." Kerry.  With every bill there are tag alongs added on.  Some tag alongs just aren't exeptable.  That is why he voted for it before he voted against it.


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## Rich Parsons (May 7, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> Wow!
> 
> In almost a year since I left this board has not grown 1mm out of it's old ways......
> 
> ...



RRouuselot,

As one who as also received threats like you, and I can say I do not like it.

I replied to Kenenth Ku saying I would meet him. NO threat. I also stated that I did not take his words as a threat to me.

My Issue with Double standards, was a personal thing as has been pointed out by others. Like I said I realize that my impact may not been my intent.


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## RCastillo (May 7, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> Seig has not gone power hungry.
> 
> His actions are within the scope of his responsibilities as an Administrator here.
> My being the owner does not exempt me from my responsibilities as both a member and an Administrator.
> ...



Number 1: April Fools day has already come, and gone.
Number 2: Some people will do anything for a vacation.
Number 3: Is this a "Reality Show?"
Number 4: This must be a "Jay Leno's" headlines!
Number 5: The Mob has infiltrated MT!
Number 6: Kaith is sacrificing himself for Sec.of Def. Donald Rumsfeld.
Number 7: Kaith was fired by Donald Trump in an episode of the "Apprentice."
Number 8: Osama Bin Laden is now running MT
Number 9: The IRS has taken over for back taxes owed?
Number 10: This is all a bad dream?
 :idunno:


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## arnisador (May 7, 2004)

RRouuselot said:
			
		

> What is it with this place that attracts [...]egos and attitudes


An excellent question.



> I was called an *** or a jackass by a member on several occasions


It must have been someone other than me--I was on the staff and so was unable to do so.


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## Bob Hubbard (May 7, 2004)

Gentlemen....

I have little time to debate this.

Mark - Your account will be closed in a few moments. 

Rich - Enough.

Ricardo - Just watch the shower and hide if you're JR.

Robert - The frauds you rallied against so long ago have long since departed. Mr. Ku couldn't behave in the proscribed manner.  His 'I have a secret' game was old last year.  I have tried hard to not bring up your name as you weren't here to respond. When I saw you had signed back up, I activated the account. You and I may never see eye to eye on many things, but with your name having been dragged into this mess, I had to allow you a chance to say your piece.  I do thank you for taking the time to clear up this particular pissing match so that those who didn't let it die, can perhaps now do so. 


People argue about dual standards.  How certain things aren't fair.  Life isn't fair.  Thats the only rule that is certain.  When it comes to fakers and frauds, I am 110% against them.  Belt mills, McDojos, and mutual admiration societies of sokes all are against what I believe in.  I do not want them here.  We can not however allow witch hunts and vendettas to overshadow this boards mission.  Other boards are "Discussion forums for MartialArtists."  We want this to be a place for the discussion of the MartialArts...by both the expert, and the novice. 

We established a set of guidelines to help the seeker find the truth.  Guidelines which are designed to allow the discussion and debate of things, without turning into witch hunts and flame wars which end all other discourse and result in locked threads full of garbage.

Are our rules perfect?
No.  But neither are we.

In the past, I let my emotions rule me, and I went too far.
These rules must be enforced as equally as possible.
A staff member, even myself can't be exempt if these rules are to truely mean something.

I can not change any past wrongs.

I can only work to better the future.

Maybe some of the rules do require a revamp or reexamination to better allow for the exposure of frauds.  But name calling, threats, and insults aren't the way.

When I'm back, I will be more than happy to open a public dialog examining the possibility of revamping the rules based on member suggestion.  I make no promise of implimentation, but I do promise to listen to all complaints, concerns and suggestions on how to continue to improve this site.

I'll see everyone in a bit.

Peace.


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## arnisador (May 8, 2004)

I'd like to point out that mods. have been suspended in the past and mods. and admins have been warned in the past.

I've said it before and now I'll say it again: I have the utmost respect for Mr. Hubbard's ability to share authority on _*his*_ site. He takes advice and admonishment with great humility and respects his staff as equals. I couldn't do it--and that's a failing on my part.

This is surely difficult for *Seig* who is acting on principle where he could easily have feigned ignorance of the existence of this thread. Additionally, as he stated, it only makes more work for him. But, it appears that the plan remains to run MartialTalk in a professional manner, despite the appeal of expediency.


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## RRouuselot (May 8, 2004)

someguy said:
			
		

> You don't like this place then don't come here.


I wouldn't have come back but someone here wanted to ask me a question. In fact I hadn't even thought about this place for many months.
Your comment *You don't like this place then don't come here *is not very productive. Are you saying that if we all don't agree with you and you friends that we have no right to come here and state our likes or dislikes. 
Things are never improved unless someone says something......Look at N. Korea for example.....Everyone there says "The Great Leader" is doing an excellent job.........when in reality the country has gone to hell in a hand basket.
The weak points on MT have been pointed out several times and I merely stated that in the almost one year since my last post not much seems to have been done to correct these weak points.
While Bob and some of the Mods and I don't see eye to eye I do think MT could be a nice place. My point was there still seem to be too many axe grinders, fakes, and egos around here. If it were *MY* board I would punt some of the afore mentioned personalities right sharpish......but it's not so.....


Nobody wants to come here and have to sift through pages and pages of flames just to see if there is anything useful or interesting. 
I have actually learned a great deal from others on BBs about arts I had never really knew existed. I have also made some VERY good friends from some of these boards. It's just too bad that for every one friend I have made I have had to be exposed to pathalogical liars, con-men, fakes, loud mouths, trolls, punk kids that learned what they know about MAs by watching Mortal Kombat, etc and so on. 
Get rid of them and a more positive atmosphere is created which snowballs into something really positive. 
I would say my weak point is I cannot stand liars........especially in the MAs.
MAs are here not only to kick butt when need be but also to inspire a higher level of acting and living so when some bozo comes around and says he has this lofty rank(s) but it actual fact just got some white out and a pair of scissors and made his own or says he trained extensively with XXXXXX teacher, but in actual fact just rode in his taxi cab and maybe spent a couple hours a day for a week training it kind of bugs me and really cheapens what MA stand for. If I was to encounter such devious people in my dojo I would give them the boot........and since I was told once upon a time this (MT) is like someones dojo (I think a Mod told me this) I say why not run it like one. 

So I say why not make people bow in, leave the BS at the door and learn from those that have some real knowledge and willing to share. 

Has anybody noticed how much time is spent on trouble makers on MT? I would say more than on positive discussions.......gotta be somethin' wrong with that.

Just a suggestion.........


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## arnisador (May 9, 2004)

In response to a comment received in my reputation for a post in this thread, I'd like to clarify that I am no longer a MartialTalk staff member, as of 1 January 2004.

Mr. Hubbard recently advised me that this error still occurs, and now I have seen it. I regret the confusion. If I am not mistaken, the username appears in light blue for an admin or asst. admin, green for a moderator, red for a supporter, a reddish-purple for advisors, dark blue for members, and perhaps another color for guests. Is there a FAQ entry for this scheme?


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## paihequan (May 10, 2004)

Welcome back Robert,

You make some very good points worthy of consideration.


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## Don Roley (May 10, 2004)

paihequan said:
			
		

> Welcome back Robert,
> 
> You make some very good points worthy of consideration.



Ron,
After all you have done to attack and slander Robert, why are you pretending that nothing has ever happened instead of apologizing for your past behavior?

Perhaps you are hoping that Robert will remember and react as he should, but no one else will remember and think that the nasty e-mails, lies and such that you engaged in the past never happened. Few people probably remember that you avoided a law suit against you only by the kindness of Pat McCarthy taking mercy on you after you begged him to not take you to court for a crime for which you were guilty. Perhaps you should act as if you were really appreciative of that mercy and take responsibility for your past actions instead of baiting Robert into something by glossing over your past trangressions against him.

You should have stayed away from this thread. If you had to respond to Robert, you should have at least acknowledge all that went on before instead of trying to present yourself as if there was no hard feelings between you. It is deceptive and designed to cause trouble. Stay away from Robert if you really want peace and are not willing to change your ways.


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## RRouuselot (May 10, 2004)

Mr. Roley,


Thanks for the support but I see Ron for what he is.
Not much need to bring up his past scandals...........I mean after all there isn't enough space on this thread! 

Ron, 

Don't think for a minute that I will ever let my guard down when I se you around.


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## Seig (May 10, 2004)

Robert et al.
     Believe it or not, Bob and I share a lot of your concerns about the frauds, etc...  He and I have had many discussions about them and the one thing I keep getting reminded of is this, MT is a business.  Unfortunately, sometimes, we have to endure people we do not like because without their support, this place would cease to exist.  I am not denying you your right to be passionate about the martial arts, many of us are.  I am asking you to be more professional than some have been in the past about discoursing your displeasure.  There have always been and always will be frauds.  They can and will be exposed for what they are, but this is not Salem and we cannot burn them at the stake for suspicion.
Respectfully,
Mike Seigel


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## paihequan (May 10, 2004)

Don,

No alterior motive. I just happen to agree with much of that which Robert has written.


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## RRouuselot (May 10, 2004)

Seig said:
			
		

> ....... this is not Salem and we cannot burn them at the stake for suspicion.


Darn, darn,darn!!!!


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## RRouuselot (May 10, 2004)

paihequan said:
			
		

> Don,
> 
> No alterior motive. I just happen to agree with much of that which Robert has written.


 
That's kind of like Osama Bin Ladden agreeing with Donald Rumsfeld!:ultracool


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## paihequan (May 11, 2004)

As stated, no alterior motives.


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## RRouuselot (May 11, 2004)

paihequan said:
			
		

> As stated, no alterior motives.


Ron,

I used to believe you everytime you said you had changed your ways and were trying to "move on".......after about the 4th or 5th time I stopped believing you.
I think it is safe to say that most people that have followed your antics from board to board over the last 2 years will have a hard time believing you.
You became like the Boy Who Cried Wolf too many times.
I told you on another board what you needed to do to make me think you had changed your ways.........your 10 years are not up yet.


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## paihequan (May 11, 2004)

As stated, no alterior motives.


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## Cthulhu (May 11, 2004)

To both parties involved:

The horse is dead.  Please stop beating it.

Cthulhu


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## paihequan (May 12, 2004)

Cthulhu,

Agreed :asian:


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