# Gracie Kids Bullyproof



## jezr74 (Apr 16, 2015)

I went through the introduction of this method and was pretty impressed with what they had to say.

While a lot of it's parenting 101, it had a lot of aspects that can easily get lost in day to day life, and having something like this with your kids helps keep things consistent and has structure.

My 8 yo daughter is keen to start the Gracie Games, so I'm hoping it will help build her confidence and she may move on to actual instruction at a school. Not sure what I think of the belt ranking system part, but don't think it's an important aspect other than giving them goals.

Anyway, it looks like fun for kids.

Has anyone had a look\participated or has an opinion on the curriculum for Gracie Kids?

GRACIEKids.com - Bullyproofing the world one child at a time.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 17, 2015)

I've seen the videos, and I'd say my opinion of it is similar to the rest of the Gracie University stuff.  It's probably the best out there in it's market.  BUT, and this is a massive "but", it will never compare to getting into a good school and training there.

A big part of the benefits of martial arts training simply cannot be taught at home by the parents.  Being in a class, with instructors that are not the kids parents in a group of peers is not something that you can duplicate at home.  Now if those things come from other places and this is a parent / child thing at home great, rock on.  But it's like playing soccer in the back yard with your kid vs having your kid join a soccer team with a coach and other kids.  Both are good, just very different experiences for the child.

I think your best approach is to get them involved in the martial arts at a school, reenforce the drills, techniques and lessons of that school at home.  If it happens to be a Gracie Academy school then do those, if the best school around for kids happens to be TKD instead then that's great too.

The problem with the Gracie stuff IMO is it stresses there way as the only way and that doing there way at home by yourself is almost preferable to someone else way in a school if you can't join one of their licensed schools.  There are many ways to teach and benefit from martial arts training, a good school of any style beats at home training and a good school of any style where the parents are involved in the childs training beats everything.


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## jezr74 (Apr 17, 2015)

I agree, but my approach with this is not for them to learn a martial art as such or think it's a substitute for it or considered training, but to get exposure to rolling around and being comfortable with it. We wrestle as it is already, I have a 10yo son as well. They both have no interest or focus currently for actual classes, so I'm purely in it for the confidence building if it takes off, and the games. And if they are attracted to learning a MA they can, I can only hope.

I see it like your analogy, my son is soccer mad and we have nets and practice markers etc. through the house I help coach him with. Is low level, basic but effective... I leave the tricky, team focused stuff to his actual team coach.


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## Tez3 (Apr 17, 2015)

I have one very big concern, I was looking to see what was available in the UK. Clicked on their link to the school in Wolverhampton and I could see the names of everyone of their child students along with their ages. In the UK we have to abide by legal constraints over giving such information out, it's a safeguarding protocol because it's really not a good idea to give anyone access to that information. I wouldn't want my children's details on a website for everyone and anyone to read. You don't have to log in, it's just there. I checked through several of them and they are the same, only two, one in Japan and one in the Philippines doesn't carry these details.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 17, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I have one very big concern, I was looking to see what was available in the UK. Clicked on their link to the school in Wolverhampton and I could see the names of everyone of their child students along with their ages. In the UK we have to abide by legal constraints over giving such information out, it's a safeguarding protocol because it's really not a good idea to give anyone access to that information. I wouldn't want my children's details on a website for everyone and anyone to read. You don't have to log in, it's just there. I checked through several of them and they are the same, only two, one in Japan and one in the Philippines doesn't carry these details.



Yeah, that seems like a bad idea. I'm surprised no one has raised the issue with them.


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## Tez3 (Apr 17, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, that seems like a bad idea. I'm surprised no one has raised the issue with them.



Just emailed them so will see if I get a reply. The Data Protection Act is quite strict about what can and can't be held by companies, groups and charities etc let alone what can be published. It affects certainly the UK schools but just not a very good idea at all.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 19, 2015)

That would be a big problem as far as I am concerned!


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## jezr74 (Apr 20, 2015)

Just a few days in, and the kids are nuts to keep playing these games. Even my son has joined in, I've stuck to the guidelines they said was important to keep to and keeping them hungry for more.

I'll update again in a week or two to see if their interest is maintained or is just a new thing to them.


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2015)

I received a polite reply from them. I'm not sure they realise that the clubs in the UK listing the names are still breaking the law but I guess that's will have to be up to them.

"Hello Irene,

We appreciate your concern and apologize for the delay in response. We wanted to check on the requirements.


In this case the parents are voluntarily joining and adding their children’s names to be listed. The reason for the listing is to recognize the children for their accomplishments. It is something they look for and is a part of achieving a belt rank in martial arts.


There is no address listed, no contact information, and nothing that in any way could put the child in danger. It is nothing other than a recognition of their having attained a rank.


Gracie Bullyproof Support Team"


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## Gnarlie (Apr 22, 2015)

The DPA in the UK is driven by wider EC legislation too, so the same rules would apply all over the EU.

The data does fall within the scope of the act, too, as it refers to identifiable living individuals who can be identified from the name plus other information held by the data controller.

It's also not allowed for them to communicate the information from the EU to countries outside the EU without similar data controls in place.

Basically, they are making a bit of a hash of it, but they're not the only ones as far as Data Protection is concerned.


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2015)

I'm a Girl Guide leader and we have to be very careful about data on the girls and what we keep, it's not just on computers either but hard copy too.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 22, 2015)

Yes, any relevant filing system is in scope, including handheld devices and notebooks. People, especially big companies, like to make it more complicated than it really is. It's really a common sense approach to not processing or storing information without good reason and not making someone's data publicly available without their express permission.

Unfortunately the DPA also makes a great hiding place for jobsworths and bureaucrats...


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2015)

I've been checking up things. In the UK Child Protection law says that only the first name should be used for a child under 18, even with a parent's permission. I've emailed them back but I don't think I will get an answer this time.


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## jezr74 (Apr 22, 2015)

Curious now, which part of the UK Act is it? Also, I wonder if it applies to servers held off shore (to UK).

Just saw your reply above.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 22, 2015)

jezr74 said:


> Curious now, which part of the UK Act is it? Also, I wonder if it applies to servers held off shore (to UK).
> 
> Just saw your reply above.



Not sure what you are asking, and to whom?


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## jezr74 (Apr 22, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Not sure what you are asking, and to whom?



Was taking a look at the ACT but couldn't search the content for 'children'. Curious as to the acts verbiage so was hoping someone would link the section.

As I wrote it, Tez replied with the naming standard for children details. I wonder if there are similar conditions for AU as well.


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2015)

jezr74 said:


> Was taking a look at the ACT but couldn't search the content for 'children'. Curious as to the acts verbiage so was hoping someone would link the section.
> 
> As I wrote it, Tez replied with the naming standard for children details. I wonder if there are similar conditions for AU as well.




I imagine there is, authorities are getting pretty clued up with data protection and children with all the online bullying and grooming that has been going on. We also have the Telecommunications Act, which is an old one brought up to date which makes it an offence to threaten and abuse people online now, before it was just by telephone.
Even as a martial arts club we have to be careful what information we keep and how long we keep it for now.


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## Tez3 (Apr 22, 2015)

I did get an answer, it was link to a Daily Mail article about an American boy who wrote to someone famous! They asked how this was allowed. I pointed out it was an American story about an American child that had been repeated by the Daily Mail ( who will say it was in the public domain anyway and they thought it was alright) which being them was unlikely to be true anyway. As the holders of information their UK schools had to comply with the law here. I think I may just pass this all onto a 'relevant' authority to be honest. As a parent I wouldn't put my child's name on a publically seen website, it isn't even password protected. It is far too easy to trace these children if you have their full names and town they live in.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 24, 2015)

Here's the problem with being bullyproof, you can get in trouble for properly taking care of a bully.


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## jezr74 (Apr 24, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> Here's the problem with being bullyproof, you can get in trouble for properly taking care of a bully.


It includes strategies for the kids to take with bullys. With physical restraint being the absolute last option. 

It even covers getting in trouble defending yourself. I've always told my kids they will not get in trouble at home for defending themselves or their friends from a bully, even if they do at school. 

They teach more patience than I do.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 24, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> Here's the problem with being bullyproof, you can get in trouble for properly taking care of a bully.



Well, that is a conversation parents need to have with their kids.  Yes, the child may get in trouble, but the long term results of getting in trouble vs the long term results of being a victim of bullying and not standing up for themselves has to be weighed.  In some cases getting in trouble, hopefully with support of the parents is the favourable option when other options have proven ineffective.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 24, 2015)

jezr74 said:


> It even covers getting in trouble defending yourself. I've always told my kids they will not get in trouble at home for defending themselves or their friends from a bully, even if they do at school.


The problem is if they get in trouble with the law. And that can be worse than getting in trouble in school or at home.


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## jezr74 (Apr 25, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> The problem is if they get in trouble with the law. And that can be worse than getting in trouble in school or at home.



You can get in trouble with Police and have done absolutely nothing. I'm talking 8 yo and 10 yo's, assuming my kids are not the bullies, I'd say follow the plan and they will be in a good position. If Police are involved so be it. Rather they defend themselves and have Police than be hurt by a bully and Police involved.


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## drop bear (Apr 25, 2015)

It is a tough one. I mean it is sometimes hard for a child to get the support they need to stop a constant harassment.  An it can really grind people after a while.

I can see the appeal of just busting the kid in the face,taking the consequences on the chin and getting on with your life


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## jezr74 (Apr 25, 2015)

drop bear said:


> It is a tough one. I mean it is sometimes hard for a child to get the support they need to stop a constant harassment.  An it can really grind people after a while.
> 
> I can see the appeal of just busting the kid in the face,taking the consequences on the chin and getting on with your life


No busting kids in the face in their program at all. Is about preparedness and control.


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## PhotonGuy (Apr 25, 2015)

jezr74 said:


> You can get in trouble with Police and have done absolutely nothing. I'm talking 8 yo and 10 yo's, assuming my kids are not the bullies, I'd say follow the plan and they will be in a good position. If Police are involved so be it. Rather they defend themselves and have Police than be hurt by a bully and Police involved.



That is one of the problems with our system, how a person can get in trouble when they've done nothing wrong. Or, for that matter, how there is much debate over what is right and wrong and the system might call something wrong even when you might think its right. 

Anyway, at 8 and 10 your children no doubt might have to deal with some bullying but they will get older and while they might be able to handle bullying better at that point, the bullying itself can come to new levels. It reaches new levels in high school and college, particularly college where people can really go wild. And while it might be unlikely for an 8 or 10 year old to get in trouble with the law for a physical altercation, in college its a different story. At that point the law comes into play much more in such situations and no doubt your children will go to college eventually.


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## jezr74 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have been doing this with my daughter for a while now, we just get on the ground and play fight when we have time and when she is up for it.

Yesterday on the school ground, my daughter is eight, I picker her up from school and she was all excited. Some boys had pushed around her and her classmate over a ball incident. They apparently kicked and pushed her and her friend around.

I asked her why she was excited about that and she recapped how she was able to clinch "Oliver Ts" arm in close and force his chest down, which then allowed for a sweep after he tried to pin her to the ground. She then used our practiced scenarios and pushed off on his face then elbow then knees to get our of his reach and move along out of the fight, dragging her friend along.

Proud dad moment, well she was so excited about it she is fired up to go and get formal lessons now so we start next week, but I have to as well apparently.

So it has paid off three months later. Just hearing her recite how she was trying to put him in his place with out hurting him too much was great.


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## Chrisoro (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm thinking of using this program from about age four when I have children, in order to build a good grappling foundation, and perhaps enroll the kid into a children's judo class  later on. As the Bully Proof program is essentially Gracie Combatives minus the choking techniques (which is VERY understandable), I believe that the focus on base, positional control and basic submissions, all of which are allowed in Judo(since the chokes isn't included), will be a great base and provide a good advantage in Judo ne-waza when he/she starts doing Judo. The Bully Proof/combatives takedowns would probably not be that usefull, considering that morote gari were made illegal in competition in 2009 I believe, and the rest of the takedowns, including the ko soto gari variant they teach, is based on attaining a type clinch which would be extremely hard to get in a Judo setting.

I'm not going to teach my kid any Hapkido until far later btw.(if they are still interested), as the nature of many of our techniques, just as with the chokes of BJJ/Judo, are disasters waiting to happen if used irresponsibly in the schoolyard. Judo/BJJ is super effective in itself, and in either case, I generally don't want my kid to be able to do anything worse submission wise than popping an elbow, until mature enough to handle more destructive techniques.


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## kuniggety (Aug 11, 2015)

Chrisoro said:


> all of which are allowed in Judo(since the chokes isn't included), will be a great base and provide a good advantage in Judo ne-waza when he/she starts doing Judo.



I am not arguing the intent/spirit of your post. I think it is good. I just wanted to point out that the chokes of BJJ are actually part of Judo's newaza too. I was kind of amazed when I opened a judo manual not that long ago, flipped through the chokes, and saw that it was probably 75% of the chokes that I have learned in BJJ and included one that I hadn't learned yet in BJJ.


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## Drose427 (Aug 11, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> I am not arguing the intent/spirit of your post. I think it is good. I just wanted to point out that the chokes of BJJ are actually part of Judo's newaza too. I was kind of amazed when I opened a judo manual not that long ago, flipped through the chokes, and saw that it was probably 75% of the chokes that I have learned in BJJ and included one that I hadn't learned yet in BJJ.



Wel......

Maeda was a Judo guy.....

I mean where else would you think the techs in BJJ came from?


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## kuniggety (Aug 11, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> Wel......
> 
> Maeda was a Judo guy.....
> 
> I mean where else would you think the techs in BJJ came from?



I know the origins of BJJ. It was more of amazement in how close BJJ has stayed to the original judo curriculum for chokes. It has diverged more in other areas.


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## Chrisoro (Aug 11, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> I am not arguing the intent/spirit of your post. I think it is good. I just wanted to point out that the chokes of BJJ are actually part of Judo's newaza too. I was kind of amazed when I opened a judo manual not that long ago, flipped through the chokes, and saw that it was probably 75% of the chokes that I have learned in BJJ and included one that I hadn't learned yet in BJJ.



You misunderstood what I was saying. As I have previously trained and competed in judo for almost three years, I was certainly not saying that Judo does not include chokes, or that you cannot use them in Judo competition. What I was saying was that since the Gracie Bullyproof technical curriculum is essentially Gracie Combatives, exept that it do not include any of the chokes from Gracie Combatives, of which one is the guiliotine choke that is _not_ allowed in Judo competition, Gracie Bullyproof does not contain any submissions that aren´t allowed in Judo.

I am fully aware that rear naked choke and triangle choke(the two other chokes taught in the Gracie Combatives program) is techniques that is also present in Judo under the names hadaka jime and senkaku jime.


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## Drose427 (Aug 12, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> I know the origins of BJJ. It was more of amazement in how close BJJ has stayed to the original judo curriculum for chokes. It has diverged more in other areas.



Well the body only moves so many ways
(I think thats the first time I've said that for grappling and not discussing commonalities in unrelated striking styles)

Im sure the gracies/machados would have loved to diverged a bit more, but we cant change anatomy


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## Hanzou (Aug 14, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> Wel......
> 
> Maeda was a Judo guy.....
> 
> I mean where else would you think the techs in BJJ came from?



Well there's some wrestling and street fighting in there as well. 

Maeda was a Judo guy, but during his travels around the world, he picked up a lot of stuff from other sources.


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