# Drunken Fist Kung fu (legit?)



## Zephyor (Sep 30, 2016)

Is it effective for barfights? When you shouldn't had the last few shots of vodka.... chased with some jack
Now, leaving the jokes aside... How good would be this style in a street scenario... especially on social places conflicts like nightclubs or bars where your moves might be actually believed as genuine drunk moves.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 30, 2016)

It's actually on the verge of being extinct. There's almost no Zui Quan schools in Romania.


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## Zephyor (Sep 30, 2016)

Then somone needs to revie it... I'll bring the booze


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## KangTsai (Sep 30, 2016)

No, you get nowhere in a fight pretending to be drunk.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 30, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> It's actually on the verge of being extinct. There's almost no Zui Quan schools in Romania.


They all moved to Luxembourg.


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## Zephyor (Sep 30, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> They all moved to Luxembourg.


I'm pretty shure you guys seen my muay boran thread XD ... don't worry i can take a joke or two


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## Flying Crane (Sep 30, 2016)

I've heard of systems of drunken style, but don't know much of anything about them.  However, a number on Chinese martial systems do contain some drunken material as part of their curriculum.

My take on it is this, and I admit to knowing very little about it.

Being inebriated impairs your physical functioning and won't help you fight better.  Some people may think they can fight better while drunk, but that's the alcohol talking.  Being drunk may make them more willing to fight and make them act more aggressively, but won't help with the actual skills of fighting.  In my opinion, anyone who is more willing to fight when they get drunk is simply revealing their true character that they are actually an a-hole and they manage to hide that fact while sober.  But that's just my opinion

Anyway, what could be useful about drunken style is the deception.  If danger seems imminent, acting drunk could cause a thug to be off his guard and open to a surprise shot.  Of course acting drunk could also make a thug think you are an easy target, and may invite the attack in the first place.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 30, 2016)

I use to train with a guy who did monkey style and he also did a drunken form. He was more flexible than any one human should be (he was literally from a family of South American Acrobats) and he was able to hit, with power, from positions that one would think were incredibly off balance and therefore had no power, he was also incredibly fast.

There were a lot of surprises sparing with him, most of them really cool, but also really painful. Now if this was because of the monkey style or the drunken form I have no idea, but he could fight. But he did not act drunk while fighting.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2016)

Zephyor said:


> Is it effective for barfights? When you shouldn't had the last few shots of vodka.... chased with some jack
> Now, leaving the jokes aside... How good would be this style in a street scenario... especially on social places conflicts like nightclubs or bars where your moves might be actually believed as genuine drunk moves.


Yes it's legit but it's not performed the way that we see it in the movies, it's more practical than that.  Jow Ga uses some of those techniques and the best way that I can describe it is that it's sneaky. On the most basic aspect, I will use my body to fall into your body and as you try to push me away or move me with your hands, I'll crack your ribs with a punch, sneak in an upper cut or  some other hidden technique.  The part of druken boxing that I know and understands forces my opponent to occupy his two hand in pushing or grabbing me because if this hands are busy doing that then they aren't punching which gives me a chance to fire punches that go unchallenged. The striking elements are tricky because of the evasion and striking techniques look off balance but they really aren't.

This is not drunken boxing.  Actual drunken fist is more controlled.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 30, 2016)

Yeah, I've seen that video before.  It just makes no sense to square off like that and then stagger around like he is drunk.  The other guy knows he isn't really drunk, so it is pointless play-acting and doesn't accomplish anything, and he is putting himself at a disadvantage.

It's gotta be in the context of the unknown, to take advantage of the surprise aspect, or else done with subtlety to take advantage of unusual body movement, but not outright fake-drunken staggering.

Fighting doesn't look like forms, so trying to make it so just misses the point.  A lot about forms is exaggerated, to reinforce certain body mechanics and movement principles, but that is a training methodology, not real fighting.  In application and real fighting it has to be more subtle, not exaggerated


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, I've seen that video before.  It just makes no sense to square off like that and then stagger around like he is drunk.  The other guy knows he isn't really drunk, so it is pointless play-acting and doesn't accomplish anything, and he is putting himself at a disadvantage.
> 
> It's gotta be in the context of the unknown, to take advantage of the surprise aspect, or else done with subtlety to take advantage of unusual body movement, but not outright fake-drunken staggering.
> 
> Fighting doesn't look like forms, so trying to make it so just misses the point.  A lot about forms is exaggerated, to reinforce certain body mechanics and movement principles, but that is a training methodology, not real fighting.  In application and real fighting it has to be more subtle, not exaggerated


 Definitely.  When I think of Drunken Boxing I think of "lazy fighting" that people do today.  They act and move as if they are lazy or that they can't fight and then in a split second they are unleashing a storm. Or pretending to be hurt from an opponent's punch but in reality they are fine and are just luring the person into a false sense of security.  Drunken Boxing is the exact same concept.  The illusion of being off Balance and disoriented is not the same that was in that video.  I don't know anyone who looks drunk like those guys.  Most drunk people I see walk similar to this and not like those kung fu guys.  




If I was going to do drunken boxing vs karate then I would fake either being high or fake having motor skill problems and I would fake from the time I got to the TV station to the time I layout some devastating combos.  I would have part of my t-shirt hanging out and I would be rude to my friends and have them act as if they were trying to make me behave.  My clothes would smell of smoke or alcohol.  I would do my best to be the guy that shows up to work drunk.  Either way I would have to look as if I needed a social worker, drub rehab and security.  Once I see my opponent has bought it I would punch him in his face lol. From that point my fighting skills would have to get better because the more I hit him the more he'll realize that I was faking.


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## Midnight-shadow (Sep 30, 2016)

I'll be honest I've never liked the idea of Drunken Fist as a style, for the simple reason that for me, Martial Arts are about discipline and keeping control of oneself. Being drunk is the complete opposite of that. As for the effectiveness of the style in a real fight, if you expect to emulate Jackie Chan then you will be in for a shock, as it won't work. That said, there are certain elements of the style that can be effective. As Xue Sheng said, being able to maintain your balance from various random body positions and still strike effectively can make you a very slippery opponent, but you don't need to act drunk in order to do that.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> I'll be honest I've never liked the idea of Drunken Fist as a style, for the simple reason that for me, Martial Arts are about discipline and keeping control of oneself. Being drunk is the complete opposite of that. As for the effectiveness of the style in a real fight, if you expect to emulate Jackie Chan then you will be in for a shock, as it won't work. That said, there are certain elements of the style that can be effective. As Xue Sheng said, being able to maintain your balance from various random body positions and still strike effectively can make you a very slippery opponent, but you don't need to act drunk in order to do that.


You are confusing hollywood with real Drunken fist techniques.   This martial arts drunken fist. It's very controlled.


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## Midnight-shadow (Sep 30, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You are confusing hollywood with real Drunken fist techniques.   This martial arts drunken fist. It's very controlled.



I'm well aware of how controlled and skilled you have to be to do drunken fist, but that doesn't change the fact that is is inspired by the act of being intoxicated, of being in an out of control and undisciplined state. The philosophy of being out of control in order to confuse your enemies doesn't appeal to me, even if the reality of it is that you need to have amazing control over your body in order to do the style.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 30, 2016)

I always had to chuckle when I would be at a tournament and in the forms competition, some young kid, well under ten years old, is doing a drunken set.  I'm thinking, how would he know how to put the drunken mimickery into it???


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 30, 2016)

Midnight-shadow said:


> I'm well aware of how controlled and skilled you have to be to do drunken fist, but that doesn't change the fact that is is inspired by the act of being intoxicated, of being in an out of control and undisciplined state. The philosophy of being out of control in order to confuse your enemies doesn't appeal to me, even if the reality of it is that you need to have amazing control over your body in order to do the style.


You still don't understand. It's about deception. There is no philosophy of being out of control.  
Drunken Fist Applications.  Show me where there is a Philosophy of being out of control


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## Dong xiao hu (Oct 12, 2016)

Drunken fist has its roots in grappling. The stumbling and what not was added later to fill out a set or two. Also it is a counter fighting method. Designed to make your opponent miss.

Sent from my Z797C using Tapatalk


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## punisher73 (Oct 12, 2016)

To me, I agree with Jow Ga and Flying Crane.  It should be about deception and there is no point to mimic being drunk if your opponent knows your not.

For example, in the video of the Kyokushin vs. Drunken Boxer video.  A perfect time for it would have been when he was staggered by the kicks.  In the video, he really was rocked by those kicks.  But, if he hadn't been, it would have been a good opportunity to act like he was wobbly to draw in the other person for an attack.  We have seen things like that even in MMA.  Fighter gets hit and acts hurt and then nails the guy when he approaches thinking he can finish his opponent.

Even in Okinawan Karate, there is the kata Gojoshiho that incorporates the drunken concept into it's movements.  Go to around the 40 second mark.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 12, 2016)

punisher73 said:


> To me, I agree with Jow Ga and Flying Crane.  It should be about deception and there is no point to mimic being drunk if your opponent knows your not.
> 
> For example, in the video of the Kyokushin vs. Drunken Boxer video.  A perfect time for it would have been when he was staggered by the kicks.  In the video, he really was rocked by those kicks.  But, if he hadn't been, it would have been a good opportunity to act like he was wobbly to draw in the other person for an attack.  We have seen things like that even in MMA.  Fighter gets hit and acts hurt and then nails the guy when he approaches thinking he can finish his opponent.
> 
> Even in Okinawan Karate, there is the kata Gojoshiho that incorporates the drunken concept into it's movements.  Go to around the 40 second mark.


wow I never knew.  It looks similar to a technique form one of my forms called small tiger. There's a part in the form where we fall (stumble) into our opponent basically crowding him. As he tries to get me off oh him (assuming he'll use 2 hands to do it) I would sneak in an upper cut.  the falling can be used to deceive or to bump the opponent off balance.


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