# Deltoid training



## jfarnsworth (Feb 5, 2003)

How do you approach training all 3 deltoid muscles? Do you train one at a time or use all compound movements to hit the 3? Do you even train the rear deltoid? I have used many different types of single isolation for the 3 muscles. Vary the order and then use compound movements to finish it. These are the exercises I have used. They are not necessarily done in one single work out but these are what I use.
Military Presses 
Side Lateral Raises
Bent arm side lateral raises
Bent over rear lateral raises
Incline front dumbbell raises
Incline dumbbell rear lateral raises
Upright rows
Dumbbell shoulder shrugs
Barbell shoulder shrugs
Rear barbell shoulder shrugs
Stiff arm rear deltoid pulls
Stiff arm front deltoid pulls
Front hammer lateral raises
I think this about covers what I do. Most of the time I pick out about 7 or 8 of these exercises before hand and practice 3 to 4 sets depending on time.


----------



## bahenlaura (Feb 11, 2003)

Jeff,

if you are after strenght not so much size. one of the best sport specific exercises for shoulders is standing on your hands against wall, with your legs directly above you and resting on the wall, door....
do 3 sets of 10 as slowly as possible. when you are getting good at this, try to shift your weight to one side as you do the push ups.
burt


----------



## jfarnsworth (Feb 13, 2003)

Interesting ideas. I have seen a couple of guys do that exercise some yrs. ago. It's still a good idea.


----------



## RCastillo (Feb 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *How do you approach training all 3 deltoid muscles? Do you train one at a time or use all compound movements to hit the 3? Do you even train the rear deltoid? I have used many different types of single isolation for the 3 muscles. Vary the order and then use compound movements to finish it. These are the exercises I have used. They are not necessarily done in one single work out but these are what I use.
> Military Presses
> Side Lateral Raises
> ...



You do all that, and you're still cold?


----------



## jfarnsworth (Feb 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *You do all that, and you're still cold? *



Well for a period of time NO. I sure do hate getting dressed up in layers of clothing to try to stay warm in our climate.


----------



## progressivetactics (Mar 25, 2003)

Stick to over head presses(dumb bell or barbell), side lateral raises, front raises (up right rows or dumb bell lifts), bent over rows and shrugs (or put shrugs on back day).
3 sets of each


----------



## jfarnsworth (Mar 29, 2003)

I did a nice warm up the other day focusing on the Delt. muscles. First I'd stretch them every which way possible then I did one set with 10lb. dumb bells of side lateral raises, front raises, then I stood up - bent over and executed the rear lateral raises. Each set consisted of 10 reps per exercise. Then I stretched the delts again then went for the second round of the same three exercises with 15 lb. dumb bells. Finally did a 3rd set with 20lb. dumb bells. It felt pretty good and the burn had already started then we got busy doing some other exercises. I thought I'd pass it along.


----------



## progressivetactics (Mar 29, 2003)

I always start with the dumbell press. Excellent full strength and size builder.  Powerful motion, and hits all heads of the delt.
I change up the next exercises a bit, but if i am doing the lateral raises, i will typically do them single arm at a time, slight lean onto an upright bench back for support, and do about 8-12 reps with 40, 45, 50# dumbell.  If i do them simultaniously, I usually just do 40#'s ea. and go for 15.    I can usually lite them onfire with this kind of weight and reps.

Hope you continue to grow!!!


----------



## MartialArtist (Mar 29, 2003)

The real test of upper body strength in the olden days was the military press, not the bench press.  Lots of people can bench their weight, but how many can military press it?

For your delts, you want compound exercises.  Exercises like front raises or lateral raises, and doing it with inclines are not really necessary for true strength.  Military press, arnold presses to hit all angles, shoulder presses (dumbells), upright rows.  Also include clean and jerks, especially the jerks.  you can just do the jerk part the entire time.  More of a power/timing/technique movement than a strength movement.  A lot of the Olympic lifts like the clean and jerk, or the snatch, hit the delts, traps, and develop explosiveness in your legs.


----------



## progressivetactics (Mar 29, 2003)

agreed about 'old days' test.  Clean and jerk are excellent power building motions. I do them 1 cycle per year (usually about 3 months).

I don't recall anyone mentioning incline presses so I am not sure what that is about?!?!?!  

Many people say the bench press and the military press are very harmful to your shoulders, and should be avoided.  As well as the arnold press.  Which I think anyone pushing somewhat heavy weight would agree.  I use the arnold press in warm ups, and weight under 30#'s.  Presses over 30 is striaght up and down. No turning.

When Benching, if it is light weight, I will touch my chest with the bar.  If it is heavy, I stay about 3 inches from chest.  Military presses..... ear lobes only.   No deeper!!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *...and do about 8-12 reps with 40, 45, 50# dumbell.  If i do them simultaniously, I usually just do 40#'s ea. and go for 15.*



Holy Crap, I can't do that.  It would be nice but not realistic for me. I'm only at 153lbs. I push myself as hard as I can in the weight room and do notice growth but nothing that substantial. Good ideas however, thanks.:asian:


----------



## progressivetactics (Apr 4, 2003)

you commited the cardinal sin.  You said "cant".

Don't worry about the numbers, they will come. Eat good, train hard and sleep well.  Your body has no choice but to grow. 

One thing I learned, and sometimes need to re-remind myself...
You have to make incredible attempts, to have incredible results.
I used to suffer through 15 and 20# side laterals.  Never increasing.  Then one day, I said screw it, grabbed a 35# and tried it.  Form was a bit off, reps weren't high.  But I did 3 sets with it.  Next week, the 20# seemed too light.  I did the 25, and that was a bit more of a challenge.  Last set, I did 35's again.
Following week, 30#'s for 15 reps. 
Everyone is different. Some people will gain results from 1 exercise and not another.  Some people are freaks and just get big no matter what.

Keep training.  Eat/Sleep/Train/ GROW!!!


----------



## Jill666 (Apr 5, 2003)

My progress in most areas has been steady and encouraging, even dramatic in some areas! Except in bench presses-  I have progressed, but slowly. I used to attempt too much, and paid for it. Now I'm more patient, and though I have added weight slowly, I have not hurt myself, and I have not lost ground. I now know that I'll keep gaining and it just takes time. And food, and sleep, and stretching, and perseverance- jeez why am I doing this again?

Oh, yeah, bikini season.  

It is aggravating to take off the 44lb plates with the 22lb plates on the outside, then put the 22lb ones back on every freakin' time I lift (sometime adding another few pounds if I feel frisky). It's even more aggravating to take off the SETS of 44lb plates then put my puny plates on  

I think we need more women in the martial arts. :angry:


----------



## progressivetactics (Apr 5, 2003)

Agreed about more women in martial arts, but also in weight training, and I don't mean the nautalis equipment.  Great job!

Ask someone to stand over you and spot. Don't take weights off, stack them on!!!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *you commited the cardinal sin.  You said "cant". *



Come monday, I'll try to grab some 30's after I warm up some first. Don't know how many reps I'll get but will try for as many as possible.


----------



## RCastillo (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *Come monday, I'll try to grab some 30's after I warm up some first. Don't know how many reps I'll get but will try for as many as possible. *



Hey, Mr. Farnsworth, give me a call, I'll spot ya!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Hey, Mr. Farnsworth, give me a call, I'll spot ya! *



_(eyeballing Castillo)_ I don't know whether that's good or bad. You might grab the 60's instead of 30's.


----------



## RCastillo (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *(eyeballing Castillo) I don't know whether that's good or bad. You might grab the 60's instead of 30's. *



Ya might have to help me, I never was any good at math, just ask Mr. Parsons!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Ya might have to help me, I never was any good at math, just ask Mr. Parsons! *



I figured that much. I definately know we won't be hitting a gold's gym together at Seig's place. We'll be doing decline flies when I ask for 40's you'll be trying to give me 90's or something. No way - I pass. Thanks for asking anyway.


----------



## RCastillo (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *I figured that much. I definately know we won't be hitting a gold's gym together at Seig's place. We'll be doing decline flies when I ask for 40's you'll be trying to give me 90's or something. No way - I pass. Thanks for asking anyway. *



:wah:


----------



## progressivetactics (Apr 6, 2003)

sometimes, unbelieable attempts yeild unbelievable results.
Good luck, my friend.


----------



## Jill666 (Apr 8, 2003)

I do my reps with the usual weight (which I have just bumped up, then I push ten pounds more twice, then add five more, to failure. This way whenever I surprise myslef I know it's time to bump up....  Slow but steady.

I restrict my top weight when I'm alone, and never put the clamps on. But 90% of the time, I got my partner to work with me. 

By the way, I have added the skull crushers.... they are as nasty as I thought they would be.  I have added them to my routine. Thanks, I guess. :rofl:


----------



## progressivetactics (Apr 8, 2003)

I just hit skull crushers today.  160#'s and still growing.  
I love em!!!  But they hurt like heck for the next 2 days!



Limitations are for people who have them
Excuses are for people who need them!


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *sometimes, unbelieable attempts yeild unbelievable results.
> Good luck, my friend. *



Ok, I've tried to up the dumbbells. On the side lateral raises I've manged to now get a set of 8 - 10 (depending on the day) with 25lb.'ers. The 30's are only maybe 2 with any kind of form. It is good just to get a little extra kick in the pants to make you try more sometimes. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## progressivetactics (Apr 27, 2003)

EXCELLENT!!!!

Sometimes you have to do something seemingly impossible to get out of those slumps.  Great job!

I am about to face a new goal I haven't done in over 2 1/2 years... I am taking 1 week off of lifting.  This is going to be hard!

Great job on the side lateral raises.  Keep me 'posted'!


----------



## moromoro (May 3, 2003)

Jason it is best if you speak to your gym attendent or trainer, it all depends on your size bone structure and genetics............
alot of the point and reply's on this thread are valid, but if you want size and strength you also have to be taking a lot of supplements, also talk to the big guys at the gym they will be able to help

thanks

terry


----------



## jfarnsworth (Aug 8, 2004)

Bump.


----------



## gumo9 (Sep 4, 2004)

Remember to also work your rotator cuff muscles. 

Lots of work on the deltoids without also strengthening your rotator cuff can result in impingement syndrome. Big strong deltoids will tend to pull your humerus up into the socket of your scapula and squish some important tendons if your rotators are weak. The rotator cuff muscles are designed to (amongst other things) maintain a vital space within your shoulder joint and they can only do this if they are nice and strong.

For lateral raises, personally, I would perhaps reduce the weight but improve the form when doing exercises like lateral raises. Back nice and straight with neutral spine, lift under control leading with the little finger-side of the hand slightly and then lower only as far as you feel the resistance come off, then raise again. Huge dumbells look impressive but bad technique can lead to injuries (been there, got the T-shirt etc.).

seeya

Graham
Manchester, UK


----------



## Bammx2 (Sep 4, 2004)

Arnold presses.

dumbells.....
 instead of a regular press,move your elbows to the front of your body.
your palms should be facing you.
 push the weights up and turn your palms out as you get to the top.
when you get to the top,feel your rear delts and use them to turn your entire arm,palms out,as far as you can go and squeeze for a second or 2...then lower back to the beginning.
this one movement hits all 3 heads better than anything else because it changes position of the weight to each of the heads individually as you move the weight up.
straight barbell military presses are still highly rated for overall mass,but some can't handle the weight they need and some respond better to the arnolds.
 give it a try and see what happens.................


----------

