# Running From Attackers



## Hawke (Jun 4, 2007)

Greetings!

I saw a YouTube on evading your pursuers.

Watch the middle part of the clip on tips on running/evading your pursuers.

As always take the following with a grain of salt:





Cheers.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 4, 2007)

If you can-do it. If you got to mix it up, do so. It's a judgement call on your part. Running isn't any good if you're not faster. All you have done is give your back to your attackers. In that case, running away would be detrimental, and you'd be better off confronting.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 4, 2007)

It might depend on where you where when attacked and if you can run to a safe place : a store, a hose of a freind, a house with people in the yard, a mall cop etc


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## MJS (Jun 4, 2007)

Certainly a good idea to get away if possible, but is that the best option?  As Hand Sword said, what if you're not a fast runner? Then what?  Get away if possible, but be prepared to engage if need be.

Mike


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## MaartenSFS (Jun 4, 2007)

Running is great. Especially when you ditch your lover in the process and let the hungry wolves have her for dinner. Why, that's the very definition of heroism. 

To the rest of ye: Let's roll up our sleaves and engage (Not with your girlfriend).


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## Flying Crane (Jun 4, 2007)

I've run, several times, but I've never had anyone to leave behind.  My Nike-jitsu is tops!


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## bushidomartialarts (Jun 4, 2007)

Nike-do is always my second line of defense.  My first line is being aware enough of my environment to get out of the situation before it develops.

Buddy of mine who's a distance runner tells a story (and given this buddy, it's about 60%-75% likely to be true) of running from several attackers.  Since the attackers didn't run as fast as one another, after a couple blocks the lead dog was all on his lonesome, so my buddy turned around and whipped his winded ***, then kept on running.

Regardless of the truth of that story, as martial artists we're likely to have better cardio than an attacker.  It's a viable option to run just far enough to get your pursuer winded.  When he's gasping like a freshly landed fish, you can renegotiate the situation.


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## arnisador (Jun 4, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Nike-do is always my second line of defense.  My first line is being aware enough of my environment to get out of the situation before it develops.



There you go. If those two steps fail, and if time permits, start looking for an improvised weapon if you're not carrying an actual one.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 4, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Running is great. Especially when you ditch your lover in the process and let the hungry wolves have her for dinner. Why, that's the very definition of heroism.
> 
> To the rest of ye: Let's roll up our sleaves and engage (Not with your girlfriend).


 
Great point.  What exactly do you do when you're with your GF, gentlemen?


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## Ella (Jun 4, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> If you can-do it.



I think even if you weren't a faster runner, some attackers may not want to bother chasing after you - too much effort, or don't want to be seen.

Rapists, especially, tend to want a girl who will submit, not one who's going to fight and scream.

I'm not a very fast runner but I'd give it a go for a block or two.


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## bushidomartialarts (Jun 4, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> Great point.  What exactly do you do when you're with your GF, gentlemen?



My wife can beat me on anything shorter than 200 yards.


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## Hawke (Jun 4, 2007)

In the YouTube clip the runner (Chris Crudelli ) manages to evade from 3 fast runners.  His suggestions were interesting.  I'm thinking of trying this on some friends to see if it works (hopefully they haven't seen this clip yet).  

Here's the link to the YouTube again:





The running scene is around 2:07.

=)


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## Hand Sword (Jun 4, 2007)

Ella said:


> I think even if you weren't a faster runner, some attackers may not want to bother chasing after you - too much effort, or don't want to be seen.
> 
> Rapists, especially, tend to want a girl who will submit, not one who's going to fight and scream.
> 
> I'm not a very fast runner but I'd give it a go for a block or two.


 

True to a point. However, remember this, even if the chase is given up, there will still be an attempt made to catch you, half hearted or otherwise. None, once an attack has begun will stand bye and just let you escape. So, the philosophy still holds.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 4, 2007)

You know, this question of running is something that has bothered me through the years. I always wondered if it was an incorrect mindset to try and think both ways. I mean, is it really possible to think both ways? Can you really consciosly keep a 50/50 mindset of fighting if I must or running if I can? Is it detrimental to try and think this way?

For me, I always thought along the lines that it was detrimental. Consider that an attacker is fully committed emotionally, and mentally, as well as physically. It's 100 percent go for them. Can that be met with a 50/50 mind? I say no. Would it be better, for self defense sake to committ one one or another? I say Yes. If you're a runnner, then run everytime. Otherwise fight full out. Meet it the same way the attacker has. Realistically that is the only way to be succesful for a real life brutal attack IMHO. Granted, my upbringing and enviroment played a part of the "not going out like a punk" attitude, but, I always felt it was relevant. Thinking back to the old schoolers too, they were never those kind of personalities, though they preached it in their teachings. They were nasty fighters. The old school students were too. I remember a line in an old book I had as kid that spoke of things lacking in the arts at that time. It was a de-emphasis on guts, or courage fighting. I think it has merit.


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## arnisador (Jun 4, 2007)

Well, I feel that if running is an option then it's best to escape, call the police, and let many men with guns handle the situation. If that's not an option--and I'm a slow runner so if someone half my age gave chase they'd likely catch me--then I agree that once it's on, you have to go from *0* to *60 *in one punch.


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## MJS (Jun 4, 2007)

MaartenSFS said:


> Running is great. Especially when you ditch your lover in the process and let the hungry wolves have her for dinner. Why, that's the very definition of heroism.
> 
> To the rest of ye: Let's roll up our sleaves and engage (Not with your girlfriend).


 


Em MacIntosh said:


> Great point. What exactly do you do when you're with your GF, gentlemen?


 
Hmm...where in my OP did I say I'd leave my wife behind?



> Certainly a good idea to get away if possible, but is that the best option? As Hand Sword said, what if you're not a fast runner? Then what? Get away if possible, but be prepared to engage if need be.


 
So, as I said, get away if possible, but be prepared to engage if need be. 

Mike


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## Hand Sword (Jun 4, 2007)

I agree. No one said anything about abandoning a loved one. If they're with you, you've got no choice. You're a buffer between them and the attack. So, in that aspect, there is no running. It's on!


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## Ceicei (Jun 4, 2007)

On the other hand, adrenaline does help add to speed when running.  It also can add to strength to fight if needed. 

I liked what bushidomartialarts said regarding the first line of defense:



> Originally Posted by *bushidomartialarts*
> 
> 
> _Nike-do is always my second line of defense. My first line is being aware enough of my environment to get out of the situation before it develops._



- Ceicei


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## MaartenSFS (Jun 5, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> You know, this question of running is something that has bothered me through the years. I always wondered if it was an incorrect mindset to try and think both ways. I mean, is it really possible to think both ways? Can you really consciosly keep a 50/50 mindset of fighting if I must or running if I can? Is it detrimental to try and think this way?
> 
> For me, I always thought along the lines that it was detrimental. Consider that an attacker is fully committed emotionally, and mentally, as well as physically. It's 100 percent go for them. Can that be met with a 50/50 mind? I say no. Would it be better, for self defense sake to committ one one or another? I say Yes. If you're a runnner, then run everytime. Otherwise fight full out. Meet it the same way the attacker has. Realistically that is the only way to be succesful for a real life brutal attack IMHO. Granted, my upbringing and enviroment played a part of the "not going out like a punk" attitude, but, I always felt it was relevant. Thinking back to the old schoolers too, they were never those kind of personalities, though they preached it in their teachings. They were nasty fighters. The old school students were too. I remember a line in an old book I had as kid that spoke of things lacking in the arts at that time. It was a de-emphasis on guts, or courage fighting. I think it has merit.


 
I agree with this. Choose your camp and prepare for it.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> You know, this question of running is something that has bothered me through the years. I always wondered if it was an incorrect mindset to try and think both ways. I mean, is it really possible to think both ways? Can you really consciosly keep a 50/50 mindset of fighting if I must or running if I can? Is it detrimental to try and think this way?
> 
> For me, I always thought along the lines that it was detrimental. Consider that an attacker is fully committed emotionally, and mentally, as well as physically. It's 100 percent go for them. Can that be met with a 50/50 mind? I say no. Would it be better, for self defense sake to committ one one or another? I say Yes. If you're a runnner, then run everytime. Otherwise fight full out. Meet it the same way the attacker has. Realistically that is the only way to be succesful for a real life brutal attack IMHO. Granted, my upbringing and enviroment played a part of the "not going out like a punk" attitude, but, I always felt it was relevant. Thinking back to the old schoolers too, they were never those kind of personalities, though they preached it in their teachings. They were nasty fighters. The old school students were too. I remember a line in an old book I had as kid that spoke of things lacking in the arts at that time. It was a de-emphasis on guts, or courage fighting. I think it has merit.


 
I'm always a runner.  If not I'm an animal backed into the corner.  Ill fight but be looking for the quickest way out.

As for having your GF with you, I thought it was a good question for this subject (a seemingly obvious answer, but what are the details of the situation?).


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## SKB (Jun 5, 2007)

Honestly I have done both. If you limit yourself to just one response to everything you are setting yourself up. When unable to avoid a fight, fight BUT when you get the chance to leave, leave. 

Now days there never seems to be the old one on one fight. You might start with just one person being the problem and with your training and skill you can end the problem. Now his four freinds come charging at you as you stand over your beaten foe. Maybe you should of beat feet instead of standing there basking in your victory?

Here is an idea I have not read yet. Fight your way out. As you are fighting work to get out of the situation. I wont bore you guys with stories but it works. 

As far as having others with you you can not leave behind.  If you have people with you who can not run or are not skilled enough to help remember if you go down (I know most of us are to good to get beat) who is going to protect the others?


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## kidswarrior (Jun 5, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> You know, this question of running is something that has bothered me through the years. I always wondered if it was an incorrect mindset to try and think both ways. I mean, is it really possible to think both ways? Can you really consciosly keep a 50/50 mindset of fighting if I must or running if I can? Is it detrimental to try and think this way?
> 
> For me, I always thought along the lines that it was detrimental. Consider that an attacker is fully committed emotionally, and mentally, as well as physically. It's 100 percent go for them. Can that be met with a 50/50 mind? I say no. Would it be better, for self defense sake to committ one one or another? I say Yes. If you're a runnner, then run everytime. Otherwise fight full out. Meet it the same way the attacker has. Realistically that is the only way to be succesful for a real life brutal attack IMHO. Granted, my upbringing and enviroment played a part of the "not going out like a punk" attitude, but, I always felt it was relevant. Thinking back to the old schoolers too, they were never those kind of personalities, though they preached it in their teachings. They were nasty fighters. The old school students were too. I remember a line in an old book I had as kid that spoke of things lacking in the arts at that time. It was a de-emphasis on guts, or courage fighting. I think it has merit.


 
I have always felt this way, but since it's not PC, have never said it. Thanks, HS.

Steering clear of hot spots in the first place, yes; negotiating out of it when possible as with an apology, yes; turning my back to someone intent on harming me or someone with me, can't do it. (Now I can't run far or fast anymore anyway, so yeah, easy for me to say ).


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## kidswarrior (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> Great point. What exactly do you do when you're with your GF, gentlemen?


Hope my wife is not anywhere around? :lol2:

Just kidding. Couldn't help myself.  Back on topic now.


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## Wild Bill (Jun 5, 2007)

The situation doesn't have to be fight or run.  In most states in the union you are only allowed to use force to  defend yourself until force is no longer neccessary.  I will fight until I have the opportunity to run away.  

I do not recomend turning around and running in the opposite direction.  If you use footwork similar to the FMAs or Kenpo you could strike your attacker and then run past them.  If your attacker is at twelve you might run toward three or nine.  This type of running technique would be helpful against someone useing a gun.  If you run away from him in a straight line he has a good shot at you.  If you run at an angle he has to reposition his body to get a better aim.  If you have the room try and zig zag around cars, trees etc.  The situation you face should always dictate your response.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

Good one.
I'd suggest run and hide.


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## Hawke (Jun 5, 2007)

ROFL!

The techniques actually worked against some buddies.

Head start run.

Hide behind a corner.

Ditch your jacket.

Grab a map and hang around in a crowd.

That was fun.


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## MJS (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I'm always a runner. If not I'm an animal backed into the corner. Ill fight but be looking for the quickest way out.
> 
> As for having your GF with you, I thought it was a good question for this subject (a seemingly obvious answer, but what are the details of the situation?).


 
You're correct, it is a good question.  Unless its totally unavoidable, trying to avoid the situation, ie: leaving, talking your way out, etc., is a good start.  Things need to be taken into consideration.  Neither my wife or I are marathon runners.  I wouldn't leave her behind, so the only option left is to defend yourself.  Is it possible for her to get back into the car and lock the doors?  What time of day is it?  Any other people around?  Clothing that you're wearing, including footwear?

As we can see, there is alot to consider.  

Mike


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## Hand Sword (Jun 5, 2007)

MJS said:


> You're correct, it is a good question. Unless its totally unavoidable, trying to avoid the situation, ie: leaving, talking your way out, etc., is a good start. Things need to be taken into consideration. Neither my wife or I are marathon runners. I wouldn't leave her behind, so the only option left is to defend yourself. Is it possible for her to get back into the car and lock the doors? What time of day is it? Any other people around? Clothing that you're wearing, including footwear?
> 
> As we can see, there is alot to consider.
> 
> Mike


 
In my experience, (on both sides of the legal issue) the details to consider were always irrelevant. The attack is going to happen, and since you are law abiding, you'll never be prepared (clothes, shoes, etc.) Predators don't care about details. Looking at this scenario, there is no option for you. You cannot allow your Girl to be harmed at any cost. You have to act. Bystanders hardly ever get involved, and by the time calls are made to the cops and they arrive on scene, the action is over. Your "scarifice" might be necessary to get her to safety. Hopefully you both come out well, but, there has to be action taken. Again, this is my opinion.


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## Empty Hands (Jun 5, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> Bystanders hardly ever get involved, and by the time calls are made to the cops and they arrive on scene, the action is over.



No kidding.  I saw one video that shook me to the core on this issue.  Some nebbishy guy (slight, small) on his cell phone waiting in line in a pizza joint had this enormous bruiser start beating the hell out of him.  There were at least 7 or 8 people within 5 feet or so, and all of them let this little guy get sucker punched and beat to a pulp while he was down.  The little guy was put in the hospital with life threatening injuries.  May I never be so callous if something like this happens around me.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

That's true.  Where does the responsibility lie with you risking your life for a stranger?  If you get your chance to be a hero will you take it?


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## MaartenSFS (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> That's true. Where does the responsibility lie with you risking your life for a stranger? If you get your chance to be a hero will you take it?


 
It depends on if the person getting attacked looks like they deserved it. Often they tried to **** with the Mafia.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 5, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> That's true. Where does the responsibility lie with you risking your life for a stranger? If you get your chance to be a hero will you take it?


 

I used to do so night in and night out working in security. However, on personal time, tough call. It depends on the situation. I will admit though, there has been a few times in my life where I did nothing. What happened, happened.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 5, 2007)

All too true.   The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.


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## MJS (Jun 6, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> In my experience, (on both sides of the legal issue) the details to consider were always irrelevant. The attack is going to happen, and since you are law abiding, you'll never be prepared (clothes, shoes, etc.)


 
True, however, depending on the situation, you could be limited as to what you can/can't do.  A suit is a bit more restrictive, so I'd think it'd be a good idea to take how you plan on kicking into consideration.  A female wearing high heels is going to have a different feeling compared to bare feet if she opted to attempt a kick.  A winter jacket could be a bit restricting, so you may not be able to move as freely as you would in a gi top.  I certainly understand that an attacker isn't going to care what you're wearing, time of day, etc., but IMHO, you still need to take things into consideration.




> Predators don't care about details. Looking at this scenario, there is no option for you. You cannot allow your Girl to be harmed at any cost. You have to act. Bystanders hardly ever get involved, and by the time calls are made to the cops and they arrive on scene, the action is over. Your "scarifice" might be necessary to get her to safety. Hopefully you both come out well, but, there has to be action taken. Again, this is my opinion.


 
True, and like I said in a few of my posts, if talking, walking or whatever is not an option, then you're left to fight.   I have my car unlocked as I'm approaching.  If its possible to for her to get in and lock the doors, that just bought her some protection. 

Mike


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2007)

MJS said:


> True, however, depending on the situation, you could be limited as to what you can/can't do.  A suit is a bit more restrictive, so I'd think it'd be a good idea to take how you plan on kicking into consideration.  A female wearing high heels is going to have a different feeling compared to bare feet if she opted to attempt a kick.  A winter jacket could be a bit restricting, so you may not be able to move as freely as you would in a gi top.  I certainly understand that an attacker isn't going to care what you're wearing, time of day, etc., but IMHO, you still need to take things into consideration.



Yes, both of you are right imho. The attacker is going to have planned for this and dressed to optimum for him (them?); we are going to get fronted when least prepared to fight--that's part of why they picked us in the first place. It would be nice to stop and change into the gi, and a real comfort to strap on that pretty black belt, but of course that's never how it goes down.




> True, and like I said in a few of my posts, if talking, walking or whatever is not an option, then you're left to fight.   I have my car unlocked as I'm approaching.  If its possible to for her to get in and lock the doors, that just bought her some protection.
> 
> Mike


A good plan for your wife. I can honestly say, I agree with both *Hand Sword* and *MJS* on this--I dont' think your positions are far apart at all.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 6, 2007)

I agree with you Kidswarrior, and MJS. Our views are right on, I just think were focussing on different aspects of the problem. Generally speaking, Yes, you have a bunch of considerations as MJS as posted. I agree completely and have been wearing those things when it went down. What I'm looking at, however is the basic part of "my wife/girl is with me and there's going to be a confrontation". Just looking at that, you're going to have to act. You won't be thinking (at least consciously) at the time, just acting. What you want, are wearing, or where you are is really irrelevant at that point. It's going down, and you can't run and leave her. All you can do is delay for her to escape. With God's blessing she will, and you won't be hurt badly.


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## kidswarrior (Jun 6, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> I agree with you Kidswarrior, and MJS. Our views are right on, I just think were focussing on different aspects of the problem. Generally speaking, Yes, you have a bunch of considerations as MJS as posted. I agree completely and have been wearing those things when it went down. What I'm looking at, however is the basic part of "my wife/girl is with me and there's going to be a confrontation". Just looking at that, you're going to have to act. You won't be thinking (at least consciously) at the time, just acting. What you want, are wearing, or where you are is really irrelevant at that point. It's going down, and you can't run and leave her. All you can do is delay for her to escape. With God's blessing she will, and you won't be hurt badly.


Yep, all on the same page, I think. Tried to rep you both, but Gnomes say I gotta spread the love first. :rules:


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## SKB (Jun 6, 2007)

Em MacIntosh said:


> That's true. Where does the responsibility lie with you risking your life for a stranger? If you get your chance to be a hero will you take it?


 


> All too true. The nail that sticks out gets the hammer.


 
It is not a matter of being a 'hero'. I can't stand there and watch someone get beat. Think if that person being beat was you or one of your kids and nobody did anything? I stopped one incident where a young girl was being beaten into the ground and grown adults watched. Poor girl was by herself and there was two of them. Why were they fighting? One of the two girls liked the other ones boyfriend?????? Yanked another youngster out from a group of guys who were taking turns kicking and punching him as he tried to fight back. Yeah his buddies could not help him since the all ran and he was the only guy with a group of girls! 

Would you of stood in the store and watched the guy get beat in the video which was talked about earlier? I thought the guy should be able to sue everyone who stood there!!!!!


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## Hand Sword (Jun 7, 2007)

Well done!

You're a rare type of individual. As I said earlier, most won't get involved. They just stand there and observe.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 7, 2007)

Hero is a matter of perspective but it also has a litteral definition if you prefer.  If you defend someone you don't know in an attempt to correct an injustice (stop the beating) it sounds heroic to me.


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## SKB (Jun 8, 2007)

Thanks for the compliment. I just try to do what I beleive is the right thing. Maybe even make some good karma for myself. %-}


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 12, 2007)

Maybe I'm not benevolent.  Most times I think all the help I could offer is to take the beating with them.  I look for a policeman.  Where I live now there are lots of them.  I like seeing them around.  It's their presence that enforces the law the most (I think).  It makes it a lot easier to run too.  I just stay out of poorly lit areas and keep my distance of large groups.  I tend to feel that people get the hand they were dealt and some of us might have forgotten that life's not fair.  If I feel I can make a difference, I have to weigh the risk.  Sometimes a good sucker elbow to the agressor will end it, of that I have no doubt.  What if I get shanked?  I don't know.  I do know what pain is and I'm not too fond of it.  Still beats going to the dentist.


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## tellner (Jun 12, 2007)

When do you fight and for who do you fight?

The answers I had at twenty are not appropriate two decades later. There are fights I wouldn't avoid when I was single. Now that there's someone and, G-d willing, someday soon another who has a lien on a huge part of me it isn't an option. Of course, that means that fights are pretty much all serious matters now. They can't be for fun because the stakes are higher "And he wants to get home to his tea". 

Would I fight to protect myself? Of course. My wife? I couldn't call myself a man if I wouldn't defend her to the death. A good friend? Yes. My youngest sister? Maybe. We don't get along very well. Her children? Yeah, if nothing else I _do_ have inclusive fitness through them  

A stranger? I could say it really depends on what other actions I could take, the general situation, the risk, how innocent I thought the person I was helping really was and a host of other things. That's partially true. But it really comes down to basic character. Here and here's an illustration. Or there's my friend Rustin.

Rustin spent several months in a sedation-induced coma. He blew himself up in a particularly baroque Rustinesque accident that left him with scars, horrible burns, permanent nerve damage and terrible things done to his insides. During the first part of the accident he had a choice - run or stay and fight the fire. Honestly the building wouldn't have burned down. But he had seconds to make the decision. Because of who and what he is he stayed and fought when he should have run. It's who he is down at the bottom layers. The real choice was made years ago.

One of the classic interview questions for police candidates is a hypothetical dangerous situation and your reaction to it. The interviewers aren't looking for what you'd do. They push you because they are checking out your basic character. Will you stick by your decision and see it through? Can you be decisive and resolute? The particulars don't matter as long as they are basically sane. It's who you are rather than what you plan to do that is important. This comes down to exactly the same thing.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jun 12, 2007)

Well put!
Hat's off to you sir.


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## stabpunch (Jun 12, 2007)

Should or stay or should i go?

Running shouldn't be a case of whether you're a tough guy or a princess. It is on option amongst countless others. Why fight a fight you can't win if you don't have to.

Oh my precious yet weak partner. geez simple... Train together, ok this is what we do when and if this happens. ie you run first, i'll cause a ruckus.

Running isn't a mindset it's a technique and if you plan to use it, train it.

Ok for me running is an option not the be all and end all. 

Choose a destination don't just run, create space, thump the assailant and run.

I don't know if you're familiar with australian currency but the 50c piece is nasty. I know it's against the law but for five bucks you get ten shots and if you grind the edges sharp it's worth it if you ask me. Ping a couple at you attacker(provided they don't have a projectile weapon that's better)and give it legs boy...

Unless you're going to win, in which case teach that assailant a lesson in being a gentleman.:ak47:


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