# Kenpo Karate 301 - Lee Wedlake



## michaeledward

Mr. Wedlake is attempting to publish his third book. This book, in theory, is to discuss Short and Long Form 3. However, Mr. Wedlake seems unable to get the product in the mail. But he has been putting the money in his checking account. 

I almost put this in 'Horror Stories'. Mr. Wedlake has had my money for some time now. I get no contact from him concerning my order, unless I solicit him for information. 

Anybody else getting frustrated with Mr. Wedlake?


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## Flying Crane

I'd be curious to read your review if you ever get it.


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## Ronin Moose

I ordered the book a few months ago as well.  It is frustrating but I cannot believe this is intentional on his part.  He said he was having problems with the publisher and I imagine that must be true.  Somehow I'll find the strength to go forward until it arrives without trashing the man.

-Garry


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## Carol

I've seen 3 or 4 things come across my computer recently that has him bashing Mr. Planas in one way or another.

Not quite sure what happened between those two, but Mr. Wedlake sure has something in a knot over it.  

Rather unbecoming of an 8th degree black to pout like a schoolgirl over a counterpart. 

Rather unbecoming of him to take your money too, Mike.


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## Kenpodoc

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> I've seen 3 or 4 things come across my computer recently that has him bashing Mr. Planas in one way or another.
> 
> Not quite sure what happened between those two, but Mr. Wedlake sure has something in a knot over it.
> 
> Rather unbecoming of an 8th degree black to pout like a schoolgirl over a counterpart.
> 
> Rather unbecoming of him to take your money too, Mike.


I'll talk to him this weekend but I believe that his publisher failed to supply the books at the time promised.  They have been promised but the last I checked had not arrived.  
As to Mr. Wedlake and Mr. Planas perhaps you do not know the whole story.  I feel it was unfortunate that any problem occured but they are good men and have dealt with it privately.  Close long term relationships can lead to contentious situations.

Jeff


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## Kenpodoc

Here's what is written on his site right now:

New Book coming out!
_We expect to be delivering in late June. Our apologies to those who have been_
_waiting since March, but it's been beyond our control. _
Reserve your copy now ,click here.

When you reserve a copy you need to accept the possibility that actualy publishing date may differ from the publishers promised date. I'm sure Lee is very dissapointed and frustrated.

Jeff


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## Carol

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> I'll talk to him this weekend but I believe that his publisher failed to supply the books at the time promised. They have been promised but the last I checked had not arrived.
> As to Mr. Wedlake and Mr. Planas perhaps you do not know the whole story. I feel it was unfortunate that any problem occured but they are good men and have dealt with it privately. Close long term relationships can lead to contentious situations.
> 
> Jeff


 
Thank you Jeff.  I did say in my post that I was not sure what happened between the two of them.

Something I shared in a PM with another person, I was playing around with a seach bot that I was built for work.  I used non-work terms like "Huk Planas" to test out my handiwork.  What I saw in the return were things that Mr. Wedlake said to Mr. Planas.  I didn't see anything immediate in the other direction.  

Does this tell the whole story?  Probably not.  But where else is one to go when the web has been exhausted as a resource?  My choice is to bring up the information here and hope that I am either concurred with someone smarter than I...or enlighted as to why I am incorrect.  :asian:


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## michaeledward

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> Here's what is written on his site right now:
> 
> New Book coming out!
> _We expect to be delivering in late June. Our apologies to those who have been_
> _waiting since March, but it's been beyond our control. _
> Reserve your copy now ,click here.
> 
> When you reserve a copy you need to accept the possibility that actualy publishing date may differ from the publishers promised date. I'm sure Lee is very dissapointed and frustrated.
> 
> Jeff


 
Actually, Jeff, by accepting and processing payment, the responsibility falls to the vendor to ship the product. By debiting my account, Mr. Wedlake, as the 'vendor' in our relationship, has committed to shipping the product. 

I really don't care about Mr. Wedlakes' relationship with his publisher. It is none of my concern. By taking my money ... my relationship with Mr. Wedlake has entered into a stage of commitment, which he is failing to uphold his end of the bargain. 

In the software industry, what Mr. Wedlake is doing is known as 'Vaporware'. His apology has little meaning to me.


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## Kenpodoc

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Actually, Jeff, by accepting and processing payment, the responsibility falls to the vendor to ship the product. By debiting my account, Mr. Wedlake, as the 'vendor' in our relationship, has committed to shipping the product.
> 
> I really don't care about Mr. Wedlakes' relationship with his publisher. It is none of my concern. By taking my money ... my relationship with Mr. Wedlake has entered into a stage of commitment, which he is failing to uphold his end of the bargain.
> 
> In the software industry, what Mr. Wedlake is doing is known as 'Vaporware'. His apology has little meaning to me.


Wrong. He committed to ship the product as soon as it was available which I'm quite sure he will do. I'm relatively sure that he is not out partying with the 14.95 you reserved your copy with. Mr. Wedlake is a good man and doesn't deserve this attack.  PM me your address and I'll return your money.

Jeff


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## michaeledward

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> Wrong. He committed to ship the product as soon as it was available which I'm quite sure he will do. I'm relatively sure that he is not out partying with the 14.95 you reserved your copy with. Mr. Wedlake is a good man and doesn't deserve this attack. PM me your address and I'll return your money.
> 
> Jeff


 
Not wanting to get into a pissing match with you Jeff, but I do believe there is a difference between accepting an order (or a pre-order) and accepting payment.

Whether you believe Mr. Wedlake is a good man or not is irrelevant ... he has my money, and I do not have a product in exchange. There is no attack issued here; just facts. 

Are any of my facts in dispute?


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## Kenpodoc

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Not wanting to get into a pissing match with you Jeff, but I do believe there is a difference between accepting an order (or a pre-order) and accepting payment.
> 
> Whether you believe Mr. Wedlake is a good man or not is irrelevant ... he has my money, and I do not have a product in exchange. There is no attack issued here; just facts.
> 
> Are any of my facts in dispute?


The dispute is whether you can expect an order before the product has arrived and whether it is legitimate to hold the money in escrow pending that transfer. Your placement of this  thread does indeed constitute an attack.

Jeff


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## michaeledward

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> The dispute is whether you can expect an order before the product has arrived and whether it is legitimate to hold the money in escrow pending that transfer. Your placement of this thread does indeed constitute an attack.
> 
> Jeff


 
Jeff, there is no 'escrow' involved. 



			
				merriam webster online said:
			
		

> *escrow*
> 
> 2 entries found for *escrow*.
> To select an entry, click on it.
> 
> Main Entry: *1es·crow*
> 
> 
> Pronunciation: 'es-"krO, es-'
> Function: _noun_
> 
> Etymology: Middle French _escroue _scroll -- more at [SIZE=-1]SCROLL[/SIZE]
> 
> *1* *:* a deed, a bond, money, or a piece of property held in trust by a third party to be turned over to the grantee only upon fulfillment of a condition
> 
> *2* *:* a fund or deposit designed to serve as an escrow
> - *in escrow* *:* in trust as an escrow <had $1000 _in escrow _to pay taxes>


 
Please explain, Jeff, who the 'third party' holding the deed, bond, money, or piece of property in trust? There is no third party. The money is in the possession of Mr. Wedlake. And I do not have 'fulfillment of the condition' ... the book.


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## Kenpodoc

In this case the money is in the bank.  I won't argue further except to point out that vaporware implies a product that does not really exist.  In this case the product is in production and will be released when available.  In the future wait for a product to be released before sending your money.  

Jeff


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## michaeledward

Jeff, I will keep responding to you as long as you keep posting. Other consumers, or potential consumers, might be interested. 

I have made many other Kenpo purchases online, from Mr. Parker, from Mr. Planas, and even from Mr. Acord. In each of these instances, purchased goods were received in a timely manner.  (P.P.S. And, in fact, I have purchased goods from Mr. Wedlake in the past, and they were received in a timely manner, which is another reason why this is disheartening.)

Mr. Wedlake accepted payment, this creates some obligations upon him, at least in the United States, where both he and I work and live. Had Mr. Wedlake not debited my payment, I would have no standing in this discussion. That the money in the bank is in *Mr. Wedlake's* account (The bank is not a third party, Jeff), there are obligations. 

It seems our Federal Government has a thing or two to say about Consumer rights, when purchasing products from home (imagine that).
http://www.consumeraction.gov/pdfs/2006revisedCAH.pdf


> *YOUR RIGHTS: SHOPPING FROM HOME*
> When you order something by mail, phone, fax or computer, the Federal Trade Commission *requires* the company to:
>  Ship the merchandise within the time promised, or if no specific delivery time was stated, within 30 days of receiving your order;
>  Notify you if the shipment cannot be made on time and give you the choice of waiting longer or getting a refund; and
>  Cancel your order and return your payment if the new shipping date cannot be metunless you agree to another delay.
> If you cancel, your money must be refunded within 7 days (or your account must be credited within one billing cycle if you charged the order). The company cant substitute a credit for other merchandise. If you applied for a charge account with the merchant at the same time that you placed your order, the company has an extra 20 days to ship the merchandise to allow time for processing your application. {emphasis added}


 
Let's see .... _if no specific delivery time was stated, within 30 days of receiving your order ._.. 30 days have gone by ... and then some.

And there was this ... _Notify you if the shipment cannot be made on time and give you the choice of waiting longer or getting a refund ._.. well, I was not notified, at least not until I sent off an email. I certainly have not received a choice by the vendor.

It really does seem that the Federal Trade Commission might have something to say about this. 

But, really, all I want is the book. 

P.S. ... and a product that is 'in production', by definition, does not exist. The product only exists after production is completed.


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## Sapper6

i'd say it's common courtesy to let the buyer know if his "goods" are not going to be available for immediate shipment.  if the "goods" are NOT available at the time a check is sent, the only right thing to do is wait to cash that check until the product is shipped.  not a real difficult concept.

i'm with michael here.  had he known the product was not readily available, he may not have paid for it yet, eh?  i wouldn't exactly call cashing the check without possession of goods "escrow".

i'd say demand a refund and that you'll consider the purchase at a later date, when the product is actually available.  good luck with it michael.


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## Carol

Agreed, Sapper.

Regardless of industry, an absolutely vital tenet of business is for the business manager to properly manage the expectations of the customer.   Mr. Wedlake may indeed feel very sad about what has happened.  I believe it sincerely.   However, it is unfortunate that his sadness has not motivated him to properly manage his customer's expectations.

Personally, I'm willing to give Mr. Wedlake a mulligan...bur I don't think that he is so untouchable that he is beyond a contstructive critique of his business practices.   No proper business standard dictates that the business owner is so pristine that he can avoid responsibility.


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## Kenpodoc

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> i'd say it's common courtesy to let the buyer know if his "goods" are not going to be available for immediate shipment. if the "goods" are NOT available at the time a check is sent, the only right thing to do is wait to cash that check until the product is shipped. not a real difficult concept.
> 
> i'm with michael here. had he known the product was not readily available, he may not have paid for it yet, eh? i wouldn't exactly call cashing the check without possession of goods "escrow".
> 
> i'd say demand a refund and that you'll consider the purchase at a later date, when the product is actually available. good luck with it michael.


Note the phrase "Reserve your copy".  Mr. Wedlake does not need a Mulligan he has done exactly what he promised.

Jeff


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## michaeledward

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> Note the phrase "Reserve your copy". Mr. Wedlake does not need a Mulligan he has done exactly what he promised.
> 
> Jeff


 
Jeff, may I suggest you review the Federal Trade Commission report I linked to above. 

I did not "reserve" anything, I placed an "order". Payment was made, and processed. By accepting and processing an order(payment), Mr. Wedlake takes upon himself, or his company, specific obligations. The language Mr. Wedlake chooses to post on his web page is irrelevant to the actual actions taken related to the commerce experience.

That is not a reservation. When I make a dinner 'reservation', the restaurant does not charge my credit card.

I don't want a refund. I want the book. If I can't have the book in the reasonable, required time frame, I think I am entitled to expect frequent communications on the subject; which has not been forthcoming.

Also, earlier in this thread, I mentioned I had ordered from Mr. Wedlake in the past. That is not correct. I ordered two of Mr. Wedlake's earlier books through Amazon.com. Amazon was prompt in accepting my payment, and in delivering the product I ordered.


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## Ronin Moose

And another thing.........oh, wait a minute....I thought I was on *Kenpo Net* for a moment.  Nevermind.


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## Kenpodoc

Good News for those who understood that Pre-order and Reserve your copy meant that the book would be sent when recieved from the Printer. The Publisher swears that Kenpo Karate 301 books are loaded on a truck and rolling toward Florida.  

Jeff:ultracool


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## michaeledward

My inbox still contains no information from Mr. Wedlake. And my mailbox still does not have a book. But, my checking account is still showing a debit.


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## Kenpodoc

Carol Kaur said:
			
		

> I've seen 3 or 4 things come across my computer recently that has him bashing Mr. Planas in one way or another.
> 
> Not quite sure what happened between those two, but Mr. Wedlake sure has something in a knot over it.
> 
> Rather unbecoming of an 8th degree black to pout like a schoolgirl over a counterpart.


I spent about 10 hours with Mr. Wedlake Saturday.  He repeatedly mentioned Mr. Planas in a positive way.  He never said anything bad about Mr. Planas. Mr. Wedlake is a remarkable Martial Arts teacher and leader and has never acted as anything but a roll Model in the years that I've known him. 

Jeff


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## Carol

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> I spent about 10 hours with Mr. Wedlake Saturday. He repeatedly mentioned Mr. Planas in a positive way. He never said anything bad about Mr. Planas. Mr. Wedlake is a remarkable Martial Arts teacher and leader and has never acted as anything but a roll Model in the years that I've known him.
> 
> Jeff


 
Great to hear


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## DavidCC

michaeledward said:
			
		

> My inbox still contains no information from Mr. Wedlake. And my mailbox still does not have a book. But, my checking account is still showing a debit.


 
What do you want him to do, create one out of thin air for you?  Grow up...


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## kenpo_disciple

DavidCC said:
			
		

> What do you want him to do, create one out of thin air for you? Grow up...


 

have YOU been following the thread?


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## michaeledward

Kenpo Karate 301 by Lee Wedlake arrived via first class mail today.


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## Carol

Yay!    

Hope can post a review once you have a chance to read it and digest it


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## Monadnock

How many pages is it? Any commentary yet??


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## Deschain

Monadnock said:
			
		

> How many pages is it? Any commentary yet??


Of course not, that might require him to say something positive for a change.


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## michaeledward

Deschain said:
			
		

> Of course not, that might require him to say something positive for a change.


 
Please feel free to use the 'Ignore' function to block users.


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## michaeledward

Monadnock said:
			
		

> How many pages is it? Any commentary yet??


 
I left for vacation early on July 1st. I did not bring the book with me. Upon returning from my vacation, I left the next morning for a business meeting, which wrapped up this afternoon. Because of this, I have not read the complete book yet. 

What I have read and absorbed so far is that the book seems a bit shorter than Kenpo Karate 201 or 101, and is geared toward those that already know the forms.

The first 16 'pre'-pages have preface by Mr. Steven White (from New Hampshire, I believe), a glossary of terms from Mr. Parker and Mr. Planas, and notation and graphics of foot maneuvers. The next 62 pages break down the forms.

If I were to evaluate my own knowledge of the 3 forms, (I am a 1st Degree Brown Belt at this time), I would tell you that I have a 'pretty good' understanding of these forms. The breakout of the forms in the book were pretty complicated for me to understand. Some of this may be the differences in experience. Some of the difficulty in understanding what Mr. Wedlake is describing may be a difference in 'point of view'; what Mr. Wedlake sees is perhaps broader than what I can yet recognize in the form. Some of the challenges may also be the written word; it is difficult to describe four dimensional motion (height, width, depth, & time) in language, sufficiently covering all mechanics involved. (Mr. Planas told me in our last lesson, a picture is worth a thousand words.)

I thought the Kenpo Karate 201 book was pretty good. It is the reason I purchased the Kenpo Karate 301 book. I think the 201 book does a better job at its objectives than the 301 book is doing (so far).

And, to keep Deschain content, let me point out something 'not positive' ... 

On Page 37, Mr Wedlake has a topic heading that reads "*Now it's time for a test question*" ... he is discussing the last 'wrist releases', just prior to Parting Wings ... He never asks the question. On the entire page, there is not one sentence that ends with a question mark. He just tells us that Mr. Parker wanted people to figure 'it' out on their own ... I can only guess he means 'What is the Question?' *and *'What is the Answer?' At the top of Page 38, he begins the discussion of Parting Wings.

I continue to work my way through the book. I will certainly keep it on my library shelf. I will reference the text in the future as well, I'm sure.

Two items to note .... Mr. Wedlake, if I recall correctly, indicated the stock supply of 'Further Insights into Kenpo' is dwindling and the book will not be reprinted. So, if you want a copy, order soon. Also, Mr. Weldake indicated a book covering Form 4 is in the works ... if I recall correctly.

I hope this addresses your questions sufficiently Mike. 

Mike


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## HKphooey

Thanks for the overview.


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## Monadnock

Thanks Mike. Good to know about the preface too. (Mr. White was my teacher's teacher and I'd only have good things to say if anyone asked.)

I think I'll be getting a copy.


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## michaeledward

I worked my way through the rest of the book last evening and this morning ... (airport lines are good for something) ... 

The Long 3 section of the book seemed quite a bit easier to read through and comprehend than the Short 3 section of the book. This may be because my brain was getting accustomed to Mr. Wedlake's writing style, or their may actually be differences in the material presented. But in general, the last 25 or 30 pages seemed less obscure than the first part of the book.


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