# Thought for the day



## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.


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## _Simon_ (Aug 29, 2018)

Nice 

Neither will be wrong or right as such, but just seeing their (and through their) perception. Some perceptions seem closer to reality, but they're still filtered through the past.

What prompted you to bring this up LastGasp?


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## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

Arguments elsewhere on the forum, lol.
But I've been doing a lot of philosophising (is that a word?) lately.

This particular one I first read about because I like to read about military history, and it's a subject that comes up frequently when comparing combat reports. It's like there isn't one version of the same event, but it comes down to individual perception. I'd even say it applies to two people's interpretation of the same phrase or conversation. The meaning drawn can be different for each individual. It's why I find it difficult to comment in a lot of the threads, lol.
I noticed that (unsurprisingly, of course), much of the chat here is about the combat and competition side of the Arts. But I'm excluded from much of that, and yet I still feel that MA has much relevance for me, so I tend to approach it in a different way to that now.

Also, I just thought it might be interesting to see what kind of philosophy others draw from (I've only noticed this section today - going to be doing a lot of reading!), without getting bogged down in long explanations or theorising. It can help us to get back on the path if we stray (our own personal path, not dogma or religion). And funny ones might cheer us up a bit too 

Fire away!


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## Buka (Aug 29, 2018)

LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.



You know what I think? 

I think that if you took all the people here and put them into a bag and shook it up......then picked them out and threw them down into each others Martial Arts experiences from their respective beginnings - everybody would have a different opinion than they do now. Vastly different.


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## Martial D (Aug 29, 2018)

LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.


Nonsense. The truth is the truth.


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## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

But it wouldn't necessarily be the same as that of the person they displaced. Too many variables.


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## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Nonsense. The truth is the truth.



It's why I put "truth" in inverted commas. Yes, the physical facts of an event happened in a certain way. But to each observer, there will be differences in an account of the event they give afterwards. Even if they are stood side by side when it happens. Each will swear blind that their version is what happened. They are not lying about what they saw. Understanding this helps with understanding people and situations; understanding why sometimes, even though we disagree with someone, it doesn't make them wrong. It is about interpretation.


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## pdg (Aug 29, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Nonsense. The truth is the truth.



And yet



LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.



That is essentially the police view of eyewitness reports.

For any number of witnesses you'll get pretty much the same number of slightly different accounts of what happened - even if none of them are lying...


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## Martial D (Aug 29, 2018)

LastGasp said:


> It's why I put "truth" in inverted commas. Yes, the physical facts of an event happened in a certain way. But to each observer, there will be differences in an account of the event they give afterwards. Even if they are stood side by side when it happens. Each will swear blind that their version is what happened. They are not lying about what they saw. Understanding this helps with understanding people and situations; understanding why sometimes, even though we disagree with someone,* it doesn't make them wrong.* It is about interpretation.



I was 100% with you until the bolded part. People's interpretations of things can definitely be wrong.


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## Steve (Aug 29, 2018)

LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.


I think Rudy Giuliani said this on meet the press last week .  Truth isn't truth!!  Lol


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## _Simon_ (Aug 29, 2018)

LastGasp said:


> Arguments elsewhere on the forum, lol.
> But I've been doing a lot of philosophising (is that a word?) lately.
> 
> This particular one I first read about because I like to read about military history, and it's a subject that comes up frequently when comparing combat reports. It's like there isn't one version of the same event, but it comes down to individual perception. I'd even say it applies to two people's interpretation of the same phrase or conversation. The meaning drawn can be different for each individual. It's why I find it difficult to comment in a lot of the threads, lol.
> ...



Ah yep fair enough, well said. And yeah whilst truth is truth, meaning is something that comes depending on our own level of consciousness and where we're at. And yeah interpretation will be based on what place we're coming from and our experience. Both sides can definitely have validity and a usefulness. It's as though there are pros and cons to every approach or technique or drill. Those who have had a drill 'work' for them may very well denounce every single other drill, then others will see that it while worked for them, it was only one way of doing things. It tends to always be situational, context really being everything. Many get so caught up in content and forget that context is where the value is derived from.

I'm a bit the same mate, my interest in martial arts is quite different from alot here, and I don't really participate in alot of discussions on intense combat or self defense stuff, but maybe interested more in the technical, and spiritual side of things. Couldn't really tell you what it is specifically that draws me to MA hehe!

But I like that you've brought up this thread


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## _Simon_ (Aug 29, 2018)

Martial D said:


> I was 100% with you until the bolded part. People's interpretations of things can definitely be wrong.


I think it really truly depends on what subject we're discussing however... if an event happens absolutely truth is truth.

But if we're speaking about the value of a certain technique or drill, interpretation can differ and both can still have a practical function or interpretation (in this we're not discussing absolute truth though  ).

And for sure interpretations can be wrong depending on the subject matter (technically all interpretation is 'wrong' in a deeper sense), but again I think the OP might be alluding moreso to forum activity.

But that's the thing hey, a bit of a fine line, as we can't all go around saying "ah nah this is right because it's my interpretation of it!" XD


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## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

It was indeed the use of the word elsewhere on this forum that raised the question in my mind.

Martial D, I understand and agree with what you say. Things happen in a definite and measurable (sometimes) way. What _actually_ happened. But I don't think that "truth" is always the best way to describe things. Because two observers can see different parts of the whole, it makes "truth" divisible. There are parts to it.
Simon, I think you are on the right track. There are people who say, "well, for me, this is what happened", whilst someone else replies with, "that's not what I found." They may both be right, and yet they may seem, on the face of it, to conflict. For me, this is one reason why we need to approach things with an open mind. Which in all honesty, is something I'm still trying to learn myself.


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## LastGasp (Aug 29, 2018)

Just don't get me started on quantum theory, lol.


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## Steve (Aug 29, 2018)

This thread feels like hippy dippy, new age stuff.   Are we all going to hug it out now?


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## _Simon_ (Aug 29, 2018)

Steve said:


> This thread feels like hippy dippy, new age stuff.   Are we all going to hug it out now?


Ohhh let's!!!


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## LastGasp (Aug 30, 2018)

Steve said:


> This thread feels like hippy dippy, new age stuff.   Are we all going to hug it out now?



Yeah man, can't you feel it? lol
Nah, it's more about me finding myself after too long adrift. If you haven't felt a need for this, I'd say you're fortunate.
In reality, I have been a cynical old sod for too long, believe me, and with some self reflection, I've decided I don't like where it has taken me.
I dunno, I'm really just messing around the edges of philosophy, but I do find some of it helps, sometimes in surprising ways.


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## LastGasp (Aug 30, 2018)

Btw, @Martial D (and E. Roosevelt), what if you discuss ideas about events and people?  

Hmm, maybe I need to do a bit more soul-searching, lol.


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## Gyakuto (Jul 21, 2021)

LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.


Ooo a thread about Relativity!


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## Gyakuto (Jul 21, 2021)

A rolling train carriage with light-operated doors at either end. A light source in the centre of the carriage, sends out a pulse of light in all directions. A person in the carriage sees both doors open simultaneously, a person on the train platform sees the back door open first as the rear carriage door ‘catches up’ with the light rays. Which person is correct? Simultaneous opening or back-door-before-front-door? BOTH😂


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 21, 2021)

LastGasp said:


> For two people witnessing the same event, the 'truth' is different. Each will come to their own understanding of what they saw. Neither will be wrong. They will just be themselves.



After many years in security (many years ago) I came to the conclusion that there are always at least 3 sides of every story. What person 'A' says happened from their perspective, what person 'B' says from there perspective, and the real story of what actually happened some where in between.


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## Buka (Jul 21, 2021)

Xue Sheng said:


> After many years in security (many years ago) I came to the conclusion that there are always at least 3 sides of every story. What person 'A' says happened from their perspective, what person 'B' says from there perspective, and the real story of what actually happened some where in between.


Ain't that the truth.


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## Steve (Jul 21, 2021)

Buka said:


> Ain't that the truth.


Truth ain't the truth.  I thought that was the whole point!


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## Buka (Jul 21, 2021)

Steve said:


> Truth ain't the truth.


And ain't that the truth, too.


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## Unkogami (Jul 22, 2021)

Xue Sheng said:


> After many years in security (many years ago) I came to the conclusion that there are always at least 3 sides of every story. What person 'A' says happened from their perspective, what person 'B' says from there perspective, and the real story of what actually happened some where in between.


Yeah, yeah, we've all seen Rashomon.


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## Steve (Jul 22, 2021)

Unkogami said:


> Yeah, yeah, we've all seen Rashomon.


Wait.  I thought that was the Citizen Kane effect.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 22, 2021)

Unkogami said:


> Yeah, yeah, we've all seen Rashomon.



Had absolutely nothing to do with Roshmon.... but it is a interesting analogy


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