# SHIN & ELBOW hard conditioning



## zacthechef

hey guys sup,
this is prob gonna be one of those threads where everyone is like 
"people have already asked this like 12 times, read the bloody forum before posting!!"
but anyway 
i have a good friend who has trained and fought in muay thai for probably 4 years and he has shins and elbows like steel poles, 
he said i should condition with a rolling pin (rolling and hitting) my elbows and shins as he did (which i have been doing).. 
but i have read and seen videos of other ppl on youtube saying this is bad for your bones etc etc..
So, professional opinions required..
"ARE ROLLING PINS THAT BAD FOR YOU AS FAR AS CONDITIONING GOES?"


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## Wayney_Boy

well my sensei told me to get a wooden baseball bat and roll my shins over it not resting on the bat but just enough


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## theletch1

zacthechef said:


> hey guys sup,
> this is prob gonna be one of those threads where everyone is like
> "people have already asked this like 12 times, read the bloody forum before posting!!"
> but anyway
> i have a good friend who has trained and fought in muay thai for probably 4 years and he has shins and elbows like steel poles,
> he said i should condition with a rolling pin (rolling and hitting) my elbows and shins as he did (which i have been doing)..
> but i have read and seen videos of other ppl on youtube saying this is bad for your bones etc etc..
> So, professional opinions required..
> "ARE ROLLING PINS THAT BAD FOR YOU AS FAR AS CONDITIONING GOES?"



First and foremost... 





> "people have already asked this like 12 times, read the bloody forum before posting!!"


 :lfao:

Secondly, my old kempo instructor used to have us do that with escrima sticks.  All you're really trying to do is deaden the nerves in the two areas.  Using a rolling pin would, eventually, do that.  As for actually doing it, well, I haven't done it since leaving kempo but the rolling pin is no worse for you than repeatedly kicking someone else's shins on a regular basis.


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## Skpotamus

The muay thai gym I went to said to not do any extra work.  The only conditioning you should be doing is hitting your pads and bags.  When you hit them 500+ times a day with each technique, everything becomes hard and you get used to hitting with it.  

I have seen other people use rolling pins, excrima sticks, coke bottles, etc.  I've never heard of an actual Thai doing this or recommending it though.


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## theletch1

Skpotamus said:


> The muay thai gym I went to said to not do any extra work.  The only conditioning you should be doing is hitting your pads and bags.  When you hit them 500+ times a day with each technique, everything becomes hard and you get used to hitting with it.
> 
> I have seen other people use rolling pins, excrima sticks, coke bottles, etc.  I've never heard of an actual Thai doing this or recommending it though.


I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of the gym you went to.  When we did it in kempo training it seemed like a detriment to my training.  The intense workout that your shins got made you so dang sore that you didn't want to train your kicks at all for awhile.  Soreness from kicking your pads can be worked through easier than the targeted soreness of the pin.  Besides, getting sore by kicking your pads means that you practiced your kicks alot and weren't sitting on your bum torturing your legs.


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## ProTaekwondo

theletch1 said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of the gym you went to. When we did it in kempo training it seemed like a detriment to my training. The intense workout that your shins got made you so dang sore that you didn't want to train your kicks at all for awhile. Soreness from kicking your pads can be worked through easier than the targeted soreness of the pin. Besides, getting sore by kicking your pads means that you practiced your kicks alot and weren't sitting on your bum torturing your legs.


 
Is it okay to continue training the next day if your shins are so sore? I often feel like this and then lose a day or 2 waiting for them to heal because I don't want a serious injury.


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## Skpotamus

It depends on your goals.  If you're wanting to start fighting, train through it.  If you're wanting to get serious about your MT, train through it.  

The more you train, the easier it is to deal with the bruising and the less you notice it.  

A few tips for shin conditioning:  Start off light and high when you're kicking the bag. Most bags aren't laid down when not in use, so they settle and get harder on bottom than top.  Start off by kicking the top of the bag with maybe 50% power, hard enough that you feel the sting a bit.  As you get used to it, start moving your way down the bag, and as you get used to the stinging there, increase your power, eventually you'll be kicking low and hard against the hardest part of the bag and it won't bother you.  

After you're done with class, an important thing to do is massage out any welts on your shins.  It sucks.... bad.  But if you don't massage out the lumps, they form knots, which hurt for a lot longer.  I usually leave my mouthpiece in and massage them out until they don't hurt anymore.  If you can't do it because it bothers you, have someone else masssage them out while you lay down.  The next day your shins will look like a horror movie, but they won't be as sore and you won't get the huge knots.  

Some icy hot, Ben gay, tiger balm etc also can make it feel better.

Also, use your head, if it hurts bad, back off and either go light or take a day or so off.  YOur body willl tell you what it can and can't do, listen to it.  

Good luck and remember the massage


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## ProTaekwondo

Skpotamus said:


> It depends on your goals. If you're wanting to start fighting, train through it. If you're wanting to get serious about your MT, train through it.
> 
> The more you train, the easier it is to deal with the bruising and the less you notice it.
> 
> A few tips for shin conditioning: Start off light and high when you're kicking the bag. Most bags aren't laid down when not in use, so they settle and get harder on bottom than top. Start off by kicking the top of the bag with maybe 50% power, hard enough that you feel the sting a bit. As you get used to it, start moving your way down the bag, and as you get used to the stinging there, increase your power, eventually you'll be kicking low and hard against the hardest part of the bag and it won't bother you.
> 
> After you're done with class, an important thing to do is massage out any welts on your shins. It sucks.... bad. But if you don't massage out the lumps, they form knots, which hurt for a lot longer. I usually leave my mouthpiece in and massage them out until they don't hurt anymore. If you can't do it because it bothers you, have someone else masssage them out while you lay down. The next day your shins will look like a horror movie, but they won't be as sore and you won't get the huge knots.
> 
> Some icy hot, Ben gay, tiger balm etc also can make it feel better.
> 
> Also, use your head, if it hurts bad, back off and either go light or take a day or so off. YOur body willl tell you what it can and can't do, listen to it.
> 
> Good luck and remember the massage


 
Wow that was an excellent answer to my question!


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## zDom

Also remember that bones, just like muscles, get thicker and stronger with non-injurious stress and atrophy in the absence of stress.


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## Slihn

zacthechef said:


> hey guys sup,
> this is prob gonna be one of those threads where everyone is like
> "people have already asked this like 12 times, read the bloody forum before posting!!"
> but anyway
> i have a good friend who has trained and fought in muay thai for probably 4 years and he has shins and elbows like steel poles,
> he said i should condition with a rolling pin (rolling and hitting) my elbows and shins as he did (which i have been doing)..
> but i have read and seen videos of other ppl on youtube saying this is bad for your bones etc etc..
> So, professional opinions required..
> "ARE ROLLING PINS THAT BAD FOR YOU AS FAR AS CONDITIONING GOES?"


 

Whats up bro.

I train Muay Thai and have been doing so for almost 4 years. I say the best way to harden your shins is my consistant training , sparring  (with shin pads on ) , kicking the thai pads and the thai bag. Many people try extreme measures , but that usually ends up in damage to the shins.


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## zacthechef

hey thanks guys 
iv been kicking the heavy bag, and thai pads, that seems to be helping 
and also i got a bag of rice, taped that up with gaffer tape, and have been beating my shins with that while im at my computer or reading.
im getting there lol
thanks for your good advice!


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## Slihn

zacthechef said:


> hey thanks guys
> iv been kicking the heavy bag, and thai pads, that seems to be helping
> and also i got a bag of rice, taped that up with gaffer tape, and have been beating my shins with that while im at my computer or reading.
> im getting there lol
> thanks for your good advice!


 
Honsetly bro I would not recommend beating on your shins with anything. I lot of young Muay Thai Kickboxers make this mistake - it will only damage your shins.The best thing to do is constant training on the heavy bag , the Thai pads and sparring.

Check out my shin kick vid:





#


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## zacthechef

alright will do thanks man (
btw nice vid


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## jeff5

I believe the difference is that a slow trauma type build up builds up bone density, as well as deaden's the nerves.  If you just deaden the nerves with rolling, you won't be able to feel anything but your bones will not be as thick and you'll risk injury.  I know some guys do a combination of both, but you have to be careful with injury etc.  If your really hurt, stop, heal up, then go again.  


I'm trying to condition my shins as well, this is a weak spot for me.  Elbows, forearms, are fine, shins are my bane =)).


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## zacthechef

cheers dude 
yeh i know what you mean haha 
the worst is when ur sparring and u meet a forearm/elbow block from ur opponent
that rly hurts me 
haha
i hate it.


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## Xerosoul

Jeff and Skpotamus are correct and it bothers me the little amount of research people here are doing before giving advice. 
A true muay thai fighter (not the U.S. kickboxer) can easily break a regular persons shins with his due to one fact, they are denser. traditional thai training involves kicking banana trees to deaden nerves AND cause the bones to become denser. Anyone who does break training (brick, block, wood) knows this as they train the strike in the same way. 
The Pumphrey brothers make a living at this because they spent years training their bodies to be toughter in certian areas that is why they can break concreate block with their heads. a normal person tries that and they WILL end up with broken bones. 
This is scientific fact proven many times. conditioning via striking hard surfaces causes bones to become denser, striking course surfaces causes the skin to become thicker, and keeping constant pressure on the body deadens nerves.

All that being said there is one simple fact that no one should overlook. Body conditioning is dangerous, you can break things and that is obviously detrimental to any training.


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## Akira

I train at one of the best gyms in Bangkok. The only conditioning we do is bag work. I also asked the owner about this and he said bag work is all you need to do. Make sure you are striking the bag in the right spot.  Make sure you are using the correct area of your shin or elbow.  Make sure you are using correct technique.  This is most important.

Hitting things against your shins will cause lumps of calcium to develop which will stay with you until old age and weaken your shin, not strengthen it.


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## fight4fun

my trainer tells me to kick a hard heavy bag. Not the cloth-filled bags. I once asked my trainer if the pain from shin on shin ever goes away and he said "f- no! It always hurts! If you dont wanna hurt then dont fight!"


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## Akira

The pain does go away, but it can take a while, particularly if you are using heavy bags.


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## TehEl1te

Where can I get a heavier bag for this?


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## suicide

%-}


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## Akira

TehEl1te said:


> Where can I get a heavier bag for this?


 
Your local martial arts supply store should be able to help you out.


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## Slihn

zacthechef said:


> hey guys sup,
> this is prob gonna be one of those threads where everyone is like
> "people have already asked this like 12 times, read the bloody forum before posting!!"
> but anyway
> i have a good friend who has trained and fought in muay thai for probably 4 years and he has shins and elbows like steel poles,
> he said i should condition with a rolling pin (rolling and hitting) my elbows and shins as he did (which i have been doing)..
> but i have read and seen videos of other ppl on youtube saying this is bad for your bones etc etc..
> So, professional opinions required..
> "ARE ROLLING PINS THAT BAD FOR YOU AS FAR AS CONDITIONING GOES?"


 
Is ironic , the only people I hear talking about shin/ elbow/ knee  conditioning are non-Thais. Honsetly man , all you have to do id constant training that involes striking the Thai Pads , Heavy bag , and sparring (WITH SHIN PADS ON!!) and your shins will gradually harden over time.

Also , you dont need shins of steal to perform Muay Thai, the average guy , with no shin condidtioning can knock someone out as long as his technique is some what correct.


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## DeadlyShins

Slihn said:


> Honsetly bro I would not recommend beating on your shins with anything. I lot of young Muay Thai Kickboxers make this mistake - it will only damage your shins.The best thing to do is constant training on the heavy bag , the Thai pads and sparring.
> 
> Check out my shin kick vid:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #


 

Good advice and I definatly agree.  You start sparring and doing shields with those shins and they will harden up in no time.

On the vid:  Nice kicks but why do you drop your hands to your sides?  J/W


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## Jarrod G.

The problem that most people have with their shins is that you get hit over and over by blocking/kicking that you bruise up and create swelling of the soft tissue on top of the bone.  Most people's bones are plenty strong enough for anything muay thai can throw at them.  There are ways to deaden the nerves in order to make it hurt less.  Kicking pads/bags is one way and probably the most efficient because you can work on your technique at the same time.  you can also have somebody hit your shins with a light bamboo stick (very light/thin) in order to kill the nerve endings in your shins.  But realisticaly all of this is unneccesary because by the time you get good enough to need deadened nerves, they will already be dead from kicking pads/bags for hours.


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