# Weapon Disarms In Close Range



## MJS (Dec 17, 2007)

Every art has them. Take a knife disarm. From what I've seen, most of them are done with the defender facing the opponent. The opponent stabs, slashes, comes in with an over head attack, and the defender goes thru the motions. We add in some 'aliveness' to keep things in check and continue to work. 

I thought I'd start this thread to discuss what everyone does from a hostage type scenario. In other words, the opponent comes up from behind, places his left arm around your neck, and is pressing the knife into your back with his right. The opponent could be grabbing your lapel with one hand from the front, and holding the knife to your throat. The same can be done with a gun.

So...with that being said, I'm interested to hear from everyone. I'm not going to limit the discussion to one particular attack. I gave some examples above, so everyone can build from there.

Mike


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 17, 2007)

Well one of the most important things is to get the attacker to think about something else.  This momentary distraction might give you the opening that you need.


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## MJS (Dec 17, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well one of the most important things is to get the attacker to think about something else. This momentary distraction might give you the opening that you need.


 
I agree!  This is very important, considering our movement will probably be hindered by the opponents other hand, and any movement out of the ordinary could be a fatal mistake for us.  I always hear people say to talk to the person, so as to get their mind off of you and onto something else.  

Its possible that they could tell you to put your hands up, where they can see them.  If that were to happen, that may buy you time to start some sort of defense, as this motion probably won't be taken as out of the ordinary, seeing that is what the guy told you to do.

I've played with some scenarios with the knife to your throat from the front, hand on your lapel, and knife in the back, with hand on shoulder.  This is an area that I admit, I don't work on that much, but should start adding more into my workouts.


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## tellner (Dec 17, 2007)

Along Brian's lines, my first Silat teacher had us practice the spit drill a few times. Both halves.


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## newGuy12 (Dec 17, 2007)

My favorite:


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## Laurentkd (Dec 17, 2007)

newGuy12 said:


> My favorite:


 

Wow! That is a great video to keep in the back pocket when someone says jumping kicks are NEVER good for self-defense.

To go along with the question, I think (as others have said) finding a way to counter when the attacker is not thinking about you is the way to go.  However, I think a quick attack as soon as possible has to be done.  I would not wait to see how the situation could improve, as the "bad guy" is going to be doing something every minute to make the situation better for him (ie moving me to a different location, trying to bind me in some way, etc).  I would try to find a way IMMEDIATELY to distract him and then strike- off the top of my head a knee strike seems to be the most available target and one that he may not see coming. I would probably sustain some sort of cut as he went down, but I have still turned the odds drastically in my favor and from there I would (hopefully) be in a better position to fight my way to safety. But the strike MUST be decisive and full power- there could be no holding back in a situation such as this one.


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## Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu (Dec 17, 2007)

I was taught that when someone comes at you with a knife observation can be a great asset.  Watch how they handle the knife, are they throwing it from hand to hand, nervous, like they've never done this before or have no idea how to properly hold that knife?  Or are they holding it firmly fixing their gaze on you as to the knife's potential target.  

Unfortunately when someone comes at you from behind you don't have the ability to make this distinction.  As silly as it may sound, you should try to relax as much as you can (kind of redundant since you have a knife to your throat I know) but, he/she who holds the knife to your throat may feel sudden tenseness in your muscles, think you're going to try something, get nervous and react, and the last thing we want is for this person to react.  I agree with what has been said, try to get his mind off the knife, if you he stops thinking about that for just a second you have a chance to react.


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## arnisador (Dec 17, 2007)

Laurentkd said:


> Wow! That is a great video to keep in the back pocket when someone says jumping kicks are NEVER good for self-defense.



It does keep his main body away from the blade, and as there was help there he could afford a leg cut if need be--a reasonable strategy for the circumstances!


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## LawDog (Dec 17, 2007)

If someone grabs you with one of his hands or locks you with his arm and has a weapon in the other there are a few very important things to understand before you consider any action.
1) With one hand or arm on you the attacker can "feel" your body motion long before he can see it.
2) The grabbing hand or holding arm will be slightly forward causing the weaponed hand to be away from you.
3) Your shoulders and head / neck area's are very strong control points. If he has control of them then he can control your primary body motions and your balance as well.
Understand before you do.
:2pistols:


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## terryl965 (Dec 17, 2007)

LawDog said:


> If someone grabs you with one of his hands or locks you with his arm and has a weapon in the other there are a few very important things to understand before you consider any action.
> 1) With one hand or arm on you the attacker can "feel" your body motion long before he can see it.
> 2) The grabbing hand or holding arm will be slightly forward causing the weaponed hand to be away from you.
> 3) Your shoulders and head / neck area's are very strong control points. If he has control of them then he can control your primary body motions and your balance as well.
> ...


 
Very sound advise LawDog as always know before making a move.


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## tellner (Dec 17, 2007)

Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu said:


> I was taught that when someone comes at you with a knife observation can be a great asset.  Watch how they handle the knife, are they throwing it from hand to hand, nervous, like they've never done this before or have no idea how to properly hold that knife?  Or are they holding it firmly fixing their gaze on you as to the knife's potential target.



Odds are he's not going to start a hundred meters away and give you time to observe all this. By the time you've sat there and watched all these things, made the assessments, and come to a conclusion about his possible state of mind you've got a serious case of tunnel vision. You're well on your way to a freeze response if you don't actually resemble a gutted trout. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said "Calm reflection is not possible in the face of an upraised knife."


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## Guardian (Dec 17, 2007)

_Alot of good information here.  The main thing I would like to point out is reaction time, the quicker you move the better off you will be._

_We trained for such scenarios and what has been stated was part of that training, the one thing that was brought up here about distracting your attacker and it's so simple and it'll probably work 98% of the time (hey not everything is perfect LOL), they have you, just point and yell out Officer (usually pointing to the side or front angles where they are not straight in-line visually,  guaranteed, you'll have your distraction immediately.  Then it's your reaction time._


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## SKB (Dec 19, 2007)

Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu said:


> I was taught that when someone comes at you with a knife observation can be a great asset. Watch how they handle the knife, are they throwing it from hand to hand, nervous, like they've never done this before or have no idea how to properly hold that knife? Or are they holding it firmly fixing their gaze on you as to the knife's potential target.
> 
> Unfortunately when someone comes at you from behind you don't have the ability to make this distinction. As silly as it may sound, you should try to relax as much as you can (kind of redundant since you have a knife to your throat I know) but, he/she who holds the knife to your throat may feel sudden tenseness in your muscles, think you're going to try something, get nervous and react, and the last thing we want is for this person to react. I agree with what has been said, try to get his mind off the knife, if you he stops thinking about that for just a second you have a chance to react.


 

You do not have time to figure out why the guy's mom did not love him enough. Even a novice with a knife can kill you dead.............

If someone has a knife to you and you are a hostage you are not going to relax.........


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## That One Guy (Dec 19, 2007)

MJS said:


> Every art has them. Take a knife disarm. From what I've seen, most of them are done with the defender facing the opponent. The opponent stabs, slashes, comes in with an over head attack, and the defender goes thru the motions. We add in some 'aliveness' to keep things in check and continue to work.
> 
> I thought I'd start this thread to discuss what everyone does from a hostage type scenario. In other words, the opponent comes up from behind, places his left arm around your neck, and is pressing the knife into your back with his right. The opponent could be grabbing your lapel with one hand from the front, and holding the knife to your throat. The same can be done with a gun.
> 
> ...




1. I'd say comply with the person holding the knife.  unless they're a cripple on ketamine or somthing, they're going to be able to stab you in the kidney or lung or slit your throat long before you execute your complex knife disarm plan.

2. If your certain that they are going to stab you anyways, then proceed with whatever flavor of distraction/disarm technique your particular system endorses.


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## TrainHardFightEasy (Dec 20, 2007)

That One Guy said:


> 1. I'd say comply with the person holding the knife. unless they're a cripple on ketamine or somthing, they're going to be able to stab you in the kidney or lung or slit your throat long before you execute your complex knife disarm plan.
> 
> This is the fact. In my opinion no one should really even pretened there is an ideal instigative course of action to procede with. If you can't bail out before your in the ***** then you'll just have to smart I guess. I'm also partial to thinking knife defence and the like are stupid in SOME ways. But thats just my thinking


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## arnisador (Dec 20, 2007)

Yeah, even in the hands of a beginner a knife is very deadly, even if the defender is an expert! Get out if at all possible.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 22, 2007)

Regarding the gun disarms when you're being grabbed/controlled, here are a couple that I've worked with airsoft and found to be very effective.  The thread linked below includes photos and a step by step description.  You have to register with the forum but it's worth the time.

Attacker at 12:00, gun in the retention position, controlling you with his off hand.
http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1717

Attacker at 4-6:00, gun in your kidney/lower back, controlling you with his off hand
http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1722


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## Cruentus (Dec 22, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> Regarding the gun disarms when you're being grabbed/controlled, here are a couple that I've worked with airsoft and found to be very effective.  The thread linked below includes photos and a step by step description.  You have to register with the forum but it's worth the time.
> 
> Attacker at 12:00, gun in the retention position, controlling you with his off hand.
> http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1717
> ...



Got any links that don't require a log-in?


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## geezer (Dec 22, 2007)

That One Guy said:


> 1. I'd say comply with the person holding the knife.  unless they're a cripple on ketamine or somthing, they're going to be able to stab you in the kidney or lung or slit your throat long before you execute your complex knife disarm plan.
> 
> 2. If your certain that they are going to stab you anyways, then proceed with whatever flavor of distraction/disarm technique your particular system endorses.




Good advice. If you've got a knife at your throat,the real question is "How the hell did I ever let this happen?!" And, since your attacker hasn't cut your throat on contact, your next thought should be whether or not you can get out if this alive by complying. Dump the ego and see things for what they are. If you go for the disarm, you will probably be cut badly, and may be killed. So, if your opponent _intends to kill you,_ go for it. If not, comply. If you choose not to resist, perhaps you can stall until the knife is away from your throat and then act, but you can't plan on that. When I was about 18, this happened to me. A guy knocked me down, grabbed me from behind and had a knife pressed up against my throat so hard it cut the skin. It happenned so fast, I'm not sure how I got there, except that the guy was _really pissed_ and screaming that he was going to cut me good. About that time it occurred to me that if he really wanted to kill me, I'd already be dead, so I chose to go along. As I am alive to write this, I guess it was an OK decision. Later, after studying the martial arts, I learned that real self-defense means learning how to avoid situations like this.


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## KenpoTex (Dec 22, 2007)

Cruentus said:


> Got any links that don't require a log-in?


not if you want to see the photos, sorry


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