# Karate Tournaments Like them or not?



## TallAdam85 (May 24, 2003)

Hello I am new to this site so I just want to see what everyone one things about tournaments. Some people love them alot of people hate them.
So tell if you like them or not.

I like them cause I can go out and meet new people and get trophies even thought there is little self defense in touranaments.
I still like them

AdaM Lux


----------



## Zepp (May 24, 2003)

Hope you don't mind a TKDist butting in  , but I think tournaments add fun to the martial arts and can be a good test of some of an individuals skills.  It's a shame to spend all your time learning to kick ***, and then never get to kick any.

Just so long as no one has any misconceptions about tournament fighting being a measure of one's ability to defend their life, its all good.


----------



## celtic bhoy (May 24, 2003)

There is a school of thought that competition could have negative effect on the practitioner. Some believe that the drop out rate from martial arts is caused by possible failure or bad judging at competitions.


----------



## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

Tournaments have there place in training...but as already stated, it is not a measure of your ability to defend yourself.

Tournaments can be a tool to help a student get over the fear of performing, the fear of confronting another, and to test a specific technique against a different style.

If the tournament turns into a "win at all costs" kind of thing, then they are detrimental...because the "win at all costs" fighter will not try new things, will hurt the opponenet if necessary, and has, as his goal a piece of wood with some brass screwed onto it...

The more trophies a person has on display, the more I wonder about his priorities...

So I am neutral on the issue...it depends on the participants goals and how the tournament is set up...one of the best tournaments I've been to was sanctioned by the JKA...the Chinese boxers were given very low scores for forms...and would lose on points in the sparring matches (Why??? Because they know what we were doing)...but they were well organized and, with the exception of ignoring the contact rule for their fighters and penalizing any kind of contact for our fighters, the tournament went well...certainly those who had to fight us recognized our abilities and came up to many of us afterward to thank us for a good match.

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

That should read, "they didn't know what we were doing."

Sorry

chufeng


----------



## KennethKu (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chufeng _.......one of the best tournaments I've been to was sanctioned by the JKA...the Chinese boxers were given very low scores for forms...and would lose on points in the sparring matches (Why??? Because they know what we were doing)...but they were well organized and, with the exception of ignoring the contact rule for their fighters and penalizing any kind of contact for our fighters,....



Then do what other mistreated Karate fighters have done in the past, KO the opposing teams wholesale. You might be disqualified. But they would get your point and would treat your team with healthier respect next time.


----------



## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

Some of our folks do just that...I don't see the point.
Those who we're up against figure it out without us having to resort to that, usually.

I've had people who beat me come up after and say that I got robbed...no biggy...I'm not there to collect trophies or titles...just to try some new things.

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## yilisifu (May 24, 2003)

I always enjoyed the opportunities to meet other martial artists.  There are precious few tournaments nowadays that feature competent judging - most judges aren't trained (as they are in JKA, for instance) - that is definately somehting that could be improved.


----------



## cali_tkdbruin (May 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Zepp _
> *Hope you don't mind a TKDist butting in  , but I think tournaments add fun to the martial arts and can be a good test of some of an individuals skills.  It's a shame to spend all your time learning to kick ***, and then never get to kick any.
> 
> Just so long as no one has any misconceptions about tournament fighting being a measure of one's ability to defend their life, its all good. *



I agree, good point... :asian:


----------



## Deathtrap101 (May 24, 2003)

> There is a school of thought that competition could have negative effect on the practitioner. Some believe that the drop out rate from martial arts is caused by possible failure or bad judging at competitions.



I only dropped out of tournaments for that. 




> Then do what other mistreated Karate fighters have done in the past, KO the opposing teams wholesale. You might be disqualified. But they would get your point and would treat your team with healthier respect next time.



Doing that only occured to me after the match, especialy when i found out his mom who was sitting next to my parents in the stands was cheering to beat the snot out of me.  He sensei was telling him to emarres(SP bad) me in the kata part of the tournament(His comments after the kata was "I geuss they liked your kata better...").  And then i got called alot for contact, and i was pretty sure i only hit him once...shoulda did it twice and make it count....


----------



## chufeng (May 24, 2003)

If you really are capable of "eating the guy's lunch" then what is the point of going after a knock-out just to prove a point?

Going back to the Karate-kid analogy...Miyagi could have eaten Kreese's lunch, but instead he pinched his nose...both of them understood fully what that meant...it's like counting coup...

I would say that after three or four tournaments run by the same crowd where you get short-changed...THAT is the time to knock the guy clean out of the ring...apologize to the judges and take your disqualification...but you and your opponent knows full well who won...maybe the next time they will be a bit more fair...I wouldn't try it in the first tournament sponsored by someone, though, you'll just make a bad name for yourself.

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## Matt Stone (May 24, 2003)

It depends on the rules being used, and how well they are enforced...

In the 1992 (?) AAU CMAD National Championships in Tulsa, OK, there were a few judges who were making their calls based on their own agendas.

We had one of our more senior students get hammered and pounded during his sparring match, because the teacher of his opponent was one of the ring judges and refused to call any of the illegal blows that were being thrown.  We asked our student why he didn't just up the ante and fight on the same terms, and he replied that he wanted to take the moral high ground and stay true to the rules.

Amusingly, in the team sparring later on, when that student, myself, and a junior student were warming up, several members of another school came up and asked if we were the team entry for our school.  We answered in the affirmative, and they walked quickly to the judges table to withdraw their entry...  Apparently, as we discovered later, having seen the amount of punishment our senior student could take, and seeing the size of our junior student (who was rather large and muscular), convinced them that in their opinion they would not have fared overly well...

At the same time, however, at the Tat Wong tournament in SF back in 1997, our people were given quite a poor ruling by the judges in the Xingyi forms competition.  The fact that none of the judges present actually _knew_ Xingyiquan notwithstanding, and that the students who won had done flashy wu shu style Xingyi as opposed to the more traditional method we practice, amounted to a good reason not to participate in future events...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


----------



## lucifersdad (Jul 15, 2003)

personally,
i think tournaments are not only good fun but i think they are important!
ok, they dont teach you about "live" situations as such, but they do teach you about distancing, timing, and self control.
i think the important thing about tournaments is to look at them in perspective and not to limit yourself. i am a traditional karate-ka but compete in traditional tournaments (kata and kumite) freestyle tournaments (forms, points and continuous) sometimes weapons forms, semi contact, full contact, submission, and am starting to train for mma competitions. maybe if we train for all of them, they might just have a little relevance to "live" situations, maybe?


----------



## TallAdam85 (Jul 19, 2003)

I have not check this out lately but I am glad to see That most people here like touraments


----------



## progressivetactics (Jul 19, 2003)

I was also part of the AAU team, and very disappointed with their agenda's. It is very different then what they portray it to be!

I enjoy tournaments... it is NOT the test of the martial artist, but a fun, sporting event to meet new people/styles, and have some competitive fun.

You can't take it too seriously.


----------



## gojukylie (Aug 10, 2003)

I went to my first tournament as a 6th kyu and I didn't really know what to expect. I was just going through some warmups and my Sensei said, "They only score you for this such n such technique & this and Yadda." I went What!!! It seemed to me that you could only use a few techniques to score with.

The kumite then became like a game of tag. Techniques lacked power, blocking didn't seem to exist and it felt weird.

However I will agree that it is good for you to get pumped up and nervous to see how you go. Like everything, it has good & bad aspects. Keeps you on your toes and you start moving alot quicker. 

The Ying and the Yang. Hey!:asian:


----------



## A.R.K. (Aug 12, 2003)

There is an old adage that goes 'Karate is for defese only'.  Tourneys kinda just ignore this little ditty in the pursuit of trophies, ribbons, medals etc....

Plus they are an unrealistic endeavor anyway.  I really don't see the positives outweigh the negatives.  Particuarly since I don't see any positives.

Just being honest.

:asian:


----------



## arnisador (Aug 15, 2003)

"Morton, Arai Make Gold Medal Kata Final"

http://www.usoc.com/usoc/pressbox.n...83baed484173d32f85256d7e007195b6?OpenDocument


----------



## Marginal (Aug 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *There is an old adage that goes 'Karate is for defese only'.  Tourneys kinda just ignore this little ditty in the pursuit of trophies, ribbons, medals etc....
> *


 I've wondered about that ditty for a while now. What were that philosophy's roots? It really just smacks of public relations stuff so that instructors would be able to say "See?' and point to the 'For Defense Only' sign if they were accused of training a thug/bully. 

Just curious if there are any firmer historical roots for the idea 'cause it seems to just pop up around when karate was being popularized...


----------



## jkn75 (Aug 28, 2003)

Tournaments offer a couple good things :

1. Students who have limited experience in martial arts (only TV or movies) get to see other styles. They have an opportunity to compare and contrast their own style with other's styles. (This seems to work best w/ a softer style, since the majority of participants generally come from Karate, Kempo or Tae Kwon Do)

2. They get to participate in the martial arts community. If you teach at a health club or other small club, you don't have 200 people walking around who practice martial arts. At a tournament you get to meet new people, exchange ideas or teaching methods and see old friends. 

However, I do agree with some of the negatives: judges not calling points, favoritism for particular styles or people and sometimes the entry fees or travel expenses can be high. 

My biggest problem is missing the tournament or finding out about it a day or two before it will be held.


----------



## oldnewbie (Sep 17, 2003)

What I like about the tournaments is the change to "sparr" with someone completely new to me. I have no idea what this person can do, so there is a small amount of "reality", granted it is small. But it gives me a chance to "measure" myself, short of going in a bar and yelling "Who's the baddest one here??!!"

Also for people I see regularly, I can see their progress and growth, etc.


----------



## donald (Sep 17, 2003)

I have always enjoyed a well run, and even some not so well run tourneys. I don't even have to participate to enjoy one. I truly am mesmerized by a well executed kata/form. The only thing I've ever disliked about tournament competions. Is a student/blackbelt competitior with a lousy attitude. I have to also admit I don't like the gymnastic type katas being performed today. Whether empty hand or weapons form. I don't think flashy equals good. I would rather watch a solid shotokan kata(I am EPAK) than a thousand jump kicks thrown together with some music. Just one guys opinion...

Salute in Christ,
Donaldo


----------



## RCastillo (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't like working em anymore. After all one does to help, you'll be lucky if you get a "pat on the ***,", and Thanks for helping. I'm a bit selfish, as I want some of that money I made for someone else. I think I'm worth it.:asian:

Next issue, which is damn near impossible to do. Get rid of the politics, get rid of the people around the ring,(especially the instructors of the competitors) have a firm set of rules, and a Tourney director to run it w/o having everyone, and their Uncle gripe about the rulings.


----------



## jakmak52 (Oct 14, 2004)

I fequently partipate in the NASKA circuit here in Florida and love it. You can do a wide variety of divisions:Forms (Traditional,creative, and musical), board breaking, self - defense, team sparring (both point & continous with moderate to heavy contact) a little something for everybody.


----------



## chinto01 (Oct 22, 2004)

I have gone back and forth on this and have come to the conclusion that the bad that comes from tournaments outweighs the good. Tournaments go against everything that the martial arts is and breeds egos. There have been a couple of tournaments in the past I have enjoyed but on a whole they leave alot to be desired.


----------



## Gary Crawford (Oct 22, 2004)

I like tournaments for the most part.When I was a Kenpo student back in the seventies,I didn't compete much,mainly because the Bay Area in California at the time had some racial problems with the large mix of Mexicans and Philopino's,so because so many tournaments got really ugly,I probably went to one or two a year,which was a shame since there were so many tournaments going on there.I did go and watch quite a bit,but always maintained a clear view on an exit!LOL.                                                    When my son started Teakwondo and wanted to compete,I just decided that tournaments will always have problems and we were going to do our best and accept whatever results we get and there was no way that I was going to be anything like a typical baseball parent and stage any protests.I didn't want to embarras my son.That worked better than expected.Yes, we did feel like we got screwed a couple times,but since we were going to so many tournaments,it wasn't a big deal when it happened.Doing the tournament thing did allot for my son's ability and how intensly HE wanted to train.It was because he had so much fun doing it.He loved winning and didn't take it too bad when he got beat,in fact it motivated him even more.We made several good freinds going to tournaments.We were given opportunities to train at some other schools which made him REALLY good.I'd say if you have the oportunities to compete,do it.It's a super learning experience.


----------



## Patrick Skerry (Oct 23, 2004)

I enjoy watching Karate tournaments.  But as a Judo practitioner, it is a common malady that if the referee is the sensei of your opponent, you're going to lose.  

Bad calls and poor judgements are rife within Judo tournaments, and a lot of people have left Judo because they get annoyed at paying an entrance fee just to lose to a bad call.

But because I am not aware of the internal dynamics of a karate match, I don't perceive this while I'm watching two karateka's compete.


----------



## Mark70Z (Nov 1, 2004)

I liked Gary's response to the post.  I agree when you go into a tournament with the attitude that whatever results happen...happen.  Of course this is a little tough to take at times, and most organizations have specific rules for protest.  If you go to particular tournaments and they are always bad, don't go to those.  

My son is 13 and really has learned to be a good sport whether it's a win or loss.  He has made "several" friends, that are not in the same school, that we hang around with.  Also, several of the young people that go to his school compete, so we just have a good day enjoying the tournament together.


----------



## gyaku-zuki queen (Nov 7, 2004)

ok.. tournaments.
my life without ever have gone to a karate tournament would have been totally different. (scary to think about it)

sure you get the ocasional shotty judging, and it costs alot, but in my opinion, you get to show what you've learned, and make new friends.

personally, ive put in alot for tournaments. meaning cash. ive spent over 500 dollars on the top of the line kumite gear (WKF aproved addidas gloves, WKF addidas shin gaurds, special kumite gi (arawaza onyx) nice kata gi (arawaza topaz) double mouth gaurd, and the chest protector mandatory at some international tournaments) then the travelling costs to get halfway across the country, and to south america... .. along with all the time spent training to qualify for big NKA WKF sanctioned tournaments, you would think, _is it worth it?_ .. id say yes. the friends ive made are unbeliveable. the memories i'll never forget. 

.. that my input on karate tournaments :boing2:


----------



## Vadim (Nov 8, 2004)

Tournaments are fun to watch and to compete in. It gives you a chance to actually use your techniques in a different environment rather then your own dojo and you get to meet new people. 

-Vadim


----------



## RanaHarmamelda (Nov 8, 2004)

Personally -- I find a well-run tournament to be a lot of fun, as long as everyone treats it like it is -- a sporting event. The refs, the judges, the competitors, the spectators -- as long as they remember that this is *MERELY* a sporting event, tournaments can be a lot of fun. 

Course, if anyone forgets that, it gets nasty -- but that's no different than LIttle League Baseball, or whatnot. Any time someone takes something like that too seriously, the fun goes away.


----------



## ShotoSan (Dec 8, 2004)

Bring on the tournament, its a good way to get all sorts of people together, and discover the flaws of the art. I enjoy seeing other members of Shotokan preform a kata, and see that is different, so Ill ask about it... Im pretty sure that there are 10 different styles to Shotokan.


----------



## samuri-man (Dec 25, 2004)

two simple words: go tounies


----------



## dmdfromhamilton (Jan 5, 2005)

Love em. They are so fun! Specialy Sparring! however i don't like it when ppl think they are better than you cause they placed 1st in a lower division
and you placed only 2nd in a division with more ppl and one up from them.


----------



## SammyB57 (Jan 6, 2005)

RanaHarmamelda said:
			
		

> Personally -- I find a well-run tournament to be a lot of fun, as long as everyone treats it like it is -- a sporting event. The refs, the judges, the competitors, the spectators -- as long as they remember that this is *MERELY* a sporting event, tournaments can be a lot of fun.
> 
> Course, if anyone forgets that, it gets nasty -- but that's no different than LIttle League Baseball, or whatnot. Any time someone takes something like that too seriously, the fun goes away.


I was at a grappling tournament once and it was a kids match. The kids were probably around 6 or 7. Their coach was screaming like a lunatick, reminiscent of Bobby Knight. It was ridicolous. Needless to say, he was ejected.

I don't see what the big deal about winning is. Winning is fun but one of the best things about losing in tournaments is it opens your eyes to what you can do better and improve upon. It's WIN/WIN!


----------



## thepanjr (Mar 19, 2005)

i like them beacuse they allways make you want to train more on the katas or sparring. It is a great experience. You may meet  a old friend that you didnt know he goes to karate


----------



## tshadowchaser (Mar 19, 2005)

As has been said befor  old friends, and meeting new ones is always a part of tournaments.  Old enemys also show up.  
 Learning what you can do in sparring  against someone you don't know helps everyone involved to learn more.
 The other side of the coin is the egos that can be seen at tournaments


----------



## searcher (Apr 5, 2005)

I find that they are a good way to see how you stack up against others of a simlar rank from other schools.   They test you mentally by taking you out of your element and puttiing you in front of a large group of strangers who will be nit-picking your techniques.   They also allow you to see how other styles do things and how to distinguish between them.   It is a great overall experience.   I give them two thumbs up.


----------



## thepanjr (Apr 11, 2005)

I just attended a tournament like last week and it was so fun. all those people and i got  shocked how many green belts in the tournament.iT was so amazing.I did pretty good. Tournements have a lot of people to meet.Now im rerady for the next year tournament. It doesnt matter if winning or losing but just to have fun. that what my teacher says. C ya


----------

