# Met and Greeted...



## MartialMasters (Dec 24, 2015)

So, I'm a few weeks in to my time joining this 'friendly' martial arts community...and while I don't expect to be coddled like a housecat (or to have everything I say be venerated), I certainly don't expect to be called wholly irresponsible, unqualified to teach, an outright liar, and have my academy called nothing more than mere stuntman training (both reckless and worthless, offering no real instruction, etc.). All this and more has happened within a few weeks, from a few threads and several people.

I've observed two primary trends from exchanges on this website:
1) If anyone writes in a casual and conversational way, they run a high risk of being savagely insulted and viciously accused of every stupidity and inaccuracy under the sun.
2) If anyone writes in a more thorough and meticulous way, they run a high risk of igniting a fruitless and long-winded squabble over words (and literally nothing is too petty or worthless to be uselessly scrapped over).

This certainly brings to my mind proverbial notions of rocks and hard places...

Again, I don't expect to be pampered (and there have been a few nice people and funny conversations), but overall...sorry to say that I certainly haven't felt very welcomed, to say the least (and to put it gently...).


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 24, 2015)

I hope you find that most people are pretty decent on MT.  This is the absolute only martial arts forum I post on; it's the only one I can stand.  It's about the only one I know of where people do martial arts, instead of just talking about it and running down other people's techniques.

Welcome to MT once again.  Hang in there.  And Merry Christmas.


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 24, 2015)

MartialMasters said:


> So, I'm a few weeks in to my time joining this 'friendly' martial arts community...and while I don't expect to be coddled like a housecat (or to have everything I say be venerated), I certainly don't expect to be called wholly irresponsible, unqualified to teach, an outright liar, and have my academy called nothing more than mere stuntman training (both reckless and worthless, offering no real instruction, etc.). All this and more has happened within a few weeks, from a few threads and several people.


Links? I just re-read your introduction thread and the other threads in which you've posted and I didn't see anything like that. A few people had suggested that your curriculum should include material on the non-combative aspects of self-defense, I had some questions about how much instruction you could practically cram into 6-minute segments, and Chris corrected some details concerning the koryu arts you had been exposed to. No accusations of lying, being irresponsible, unqualified, etc. Am I missing a thread somewhere?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 24, 2015)

As far as I could tell, that wasn't really happening to your posts. People like myself were making suggestions to your art, and a couple people reminded you that you need more than just ma for self defense, which you said you had.

The only person who might have appeared rude is chris, but he's nitpick and meticulous to everyone..if you pay attention to his posts you can learn a lot (how much you actually remember is another matter...)


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 24, 2015)

I have not seen any reported posts from or about you, so allow me to suggest that if these things are happening, you'd be well advised to hit the *REPORT* button on the lower left corner of each post, and allow the moderation team to do our jobs.


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## donald1 (Dec 24, 2015)

I have way too much pride and ignorance to be offended by such commentary of others! 

Dont worry about them... not all of us are that way. Not most of us are tha t way. And the ones who are will get caught and get a slap across the wrist...

Anyways, hello...


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 25, 2015)

okie dokie


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 25, 2015)

I think you are over exaggerating there a bit.  Yet, when you come onto any forum and have a system and are selling it then obviously you cannot expect everyone to like your product?  That and on this particular forum you have a lot of very, very educated people in this field.  So naturally some people are going to give you suggestions!  You might look at those suggestions and re-evaluate what you are doing and maybe include some of them!


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 25, 2015)

donald1 said:


> I have way too much pride and ignorance to be offended by such commentary of others!
> 
> Dont worry about them... not all of us are that way. Not most of us are tha t way. And the ones who are will get caught and get a slap across the wrist...
> 
> Anyways, hello...


I may not be a smart man, but I do know what karate is. LOL


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## MartialMasters (Dec 26, 2015)

MartialMasters said:


> So, I'm a few weeks in to my time joining this 'friendly' martial arts community...and while I don't expect to be coddled like a housecat (or to have everything I say be venerated), I certainly don't expect to be called wholly irresponsible, unqualified to teach, an outright liar, and have my academy called nothing more than mere stuntman training (both reckless and worthless, offering no real instruction, etc.). All this and more has happened within a few weeks, from a few threads and several people.
> 
> I've observed two primary trends from exchanges on this website:
> 1) If anyone writes in a casual and conversational way, they run a high risk of being savagely insulted and viciously accused of every stupidity and inaccuracy under the sun.
> ...



Heh, I'm not a quitter, and won't give up this quickly! Thank you for the comments!
I was mostly surprised to see just how quickly a lot of criticism and doubts came my way. To be fair to MT, I am the only one who knows the past fifteen years of fighting through blood, sweat, and tears (literally) that I've gone through, the amount of study and work I've put to get where I am (striving especially in the past ten to go above and beyond the norm technically, to build my teaching experience, to enhance myself strategically, expand my range of skills, etc.). But to a whole lot of people who've never trained with me, taught me, or been guided by me, there's no easy way to prove that I'm not a hack, unteachable, or a swindler/charlatan!

And there really are a lot of people out there who aren't qualified to instruct, who only have a rudimentary or superficial understanding of the arts (but think that because they can do a few techniques, they are experts), and I do understand how several people on a martial arts forum may be naturally a bit wary of some new guys teaching martial arts!

Well, over time I'll try to do what I can!
And have a bit of fun while I'm at it...!


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 26, 2015)

MartialMasters said:


> Heh, I'm not a quitter, and won't give up this quickly! Thank you for the comments!
> I was mostly surprised to see just how quickly a lot of criticism and doubts came my way. To be fair to MT, I am the only one who knows the past fifteen years of fighting through blood, sweat, and tears (literally) that I've gone through, the amount of study and work I've put to get where I am (striving especially in the past ten to go above and beyond the norm technically, to build my teaching experience, to enhance myself strategically, expand my range of skills, etc.). But to a whole lot of people who've never trained with me, taught me, or been guided by me, there's no easy way to prove that I'm not a hack, unteachable, or a swindler/charlatan!
> 
> And there really are a lot of people out there who aren't qualified to instruct, who only have a rudimentary or superficial understanding of the arts (but think that because they can do a few techniques, they are experts), and I do understand how several people on a martial arts forum may be naturally a bit wary of some new guys teaching martial arts!
> ...



So ... no links to any examples of people calling you a liar, irresponsible, unqualified, hack or charlatan? As far as I can tell, none of that has happened as of yet on this forum.

You are quite right that none of us is personally familiar with you or your skillset. Your website has some video clips, but since the free previews are just short snippits without context or instruction I'm going to withhold judgment on those. Probably the best way to establish credibility here is to engage in the conversations on various topics in a constructive manner. Many of us have quite a bit of training experience and can spot when someone seems to know what they are talking about.

Your introductory thread seemed to be oriented towards promoting your website. Given that, conversation naturally turned towards questions and (relatively gentle) feedback concerning that site. If you are reading that feedback as personal attacks or insults, then I suggest you hold off on asking for any sort of direct critique.


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## MartialMasters (Dec 26, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> So ... no links to any examples of people calling you a liar, irresponsible, unqualified, hack or charlatan? As far as I can tell, none of that has happened as of yet on this forum.
> 
> You are quite right that none of us is personally familiar with you or your skillset. Your website has some video clips, but since the free previews are just short snippits without context or instruction I'm going to withhold judgment on those. Probably the best way to establish credibility here is to engage in the conversations on various topics in a constructive manner. Many of us have quite a bit of training experience and can spot when someone seems to know what they are talking about.
> 
> Your introductory thread seemed to be oriented towards promoting your website. Given that, conversation naturally turned towards questions and (relatively gentle) feedback concerning that site. If you are reading that feedback as personal attacks or insults, then I suggest you hold off on asking for any sort of direct critique.



It was a Paul something who mentioned the "Stuntman" business and said I was "wholly irresponsible". An Australian strongly implied that I was making up my background (essentially calling me a liar). The Orcophile leaped on me immediately after I made a small comment elsewhere. Others said "I agree with _x_" (where _x_ equals people who were generally critical). A handful of general comments along the lines of "I haven't seen your videos...but here's why I will judge them anyways".
And then a few nice people who simply said "Welcome"!
Probably missing something, that's just what I remember!


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 26, 2015)

MartialMasters said:


> It was a Paul something who mentioned the "Stuntman" business and said I was "wholly irresponsible". An Australian strongly implied that I was making up my background (essentially calling me a liar). The Orcophile leaped on me immediately after I made a small comment elsewhere. Others said "I agree with _x_" (where _x_ equals people who were generally critical). A handful of general comments along the lines of "I haven't seen your videos...but here's why I will judge them anyways".
> And then a few nice people who simply said "Welcome"!
> Probably missing something, that's just what I remember!


Just for the record, Chris explicitly stated that he was *not* calling you a liar, but that he was attributing some of what you mentioned about your koryu background to misremembering or misunderstanding details about the art. Chris is persnickety about the details of martial history in general and the history and culture of koryu arts in particular. He can be blunt, so if he was going to call you a liar, he would say so outright.

Paul's statement (in the midst of a detailed critique of your website which contained both compliments and cautions) was "_To teach that there are "no rule" is wholly irresponsible_." I don't believe this was intended as a blanket categorization of you or your teaching, but his opinion of the "no rules on the street" cliché.

(Frankly, I agree with his opinion of that cliché. The rules on the street are _different_ from those in the ring. They may not be fully _known_ to all participants in an altercation. They may not be the _same_ for all participants. All participants may not _care_ about the rules and the penalties for violating them, but they still exist. A student of self-defense who thinks there are no rules may end up facing some unpleasant consequences.)

Paul's reference to the "stuntman roll" was a metaphor. He was not saying that you are literally teaching stuntman techniques. He was saying that _in the larger context of self-defense in general_, the fighting aspect of martial arts (as taught by _anyone_, not just you) is really a last-ditch option  - analogous to doing a stuntman roll when being hit by a car. By Paul's definition, the majority of self-defense training should be concerned with how not to be hit by a car or involved in a street fight or violent assault in the first place.

For what it's worth, this is pretty much Paul's standard spiel regarding self-defense whenever the topic comes up. It wasn't aimed at your martial arts skills or knowledge.

Hope that helps put things in perspective. If you spend time here you'll start to recognize where some of the regular posters are coming from.


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## MartialMasters (Dec 27, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Just for the record, Chris explicitly stated that he was *not* calling you a liar, but that he was attributing some of what you mentioned about your koryu background to misremembering or misunderstanding details about the art. Chris is persnickety about the details of martial history in general and the history and culture of koryu arts in particular. He can be blunt, so if he was going to call you a liar, he would say so outright.
> 
> Paul's statement (in the midst of a detailed critique of your website which contained both compliments and cautions) was "_To teach that there are "no rule" is wholly irresponsible_." I don't believe this was intended as a blanket categorization of you or your teaching, but his opinion of the "no rules on the street" cliché.
> 
> ...


Thanks, you put a lot of time in to this! Amusingly...to do with the Japanese history, we mostly just called it "Classical Jujutsu", and if we wanted to be really fancy, we'd use the word "Koryu"...we certainly weren't too persnickety about details, we just loved working the art.

When I ask for direct critique, I brace myself for an onslaught! But honestly, I think I'm my own worst critic. I can scarcely watch a single video of anything I do without seeing something that could be improved! I think that's generally a good thing, as long as I don't beat myself up to the point of getting discouraged!


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