# Wado Ryu Questions



## Curmudgeon (Aug 28, 2015)

Hello,

I've recently started at a dojo with Wado Karate.  I chose my school for a variety of reasons, and in my brief reading on Wado I frequently read about Wado being, roughly, a combination of jujutsu and karate.  I recall reading one quote attributed to Hironori Ohtsuka Meijin - "If Wado Karate was a soup, then the Karate part of Wado would just be like a pinch of salt!".

I'm curious if this sort of description rings true as a norm for dojos with Wado, how much focus is on the Karate aspect, how much on other elements, and in particular how much of the curriculum is or is derived from Jujutsu.  I ask because I'm starting to realize that the dojo I joined seems almost entirely Karate with the jujutsu elements being the "pinch of salt" in the curriculum.  From my inquiries, it seems as though it is taught occasionally and is not part of the belt requirements at all (instead it is an enormous focus on katas).  There is no grappling done whatsoever in adult classes.  Is this within normal parameters for a Wado school or have I found a dojo that is more of an outlier?   

Thank you


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## Tez3 (Aug 29, 2015)

In Wado Ryu jujutsu is not taught as a separate part, it is incorporated into the whole. There is no grappling as you would find in a jujutsu class.  
Wado Ryu is a karate style, you will find the jujutsu being used in the kata and the Ohyogumite as well as the Kihons.
A very good book to have a look at is Shingo Ohgami's 'Introduction To Karate'


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## Curmudgeon (Aug 29, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> In Wado Ryu jujutsu is not taught as a separate part, it is incorporated into the whole. There is no grappling as you would find in a jujutsu class.
> Wado Ryu is a karate style, you will find the jujutsu being used in the kata and the Ohyogumite as well as the Kihons.
> A very good book to have a look at is Shingo Ohgami's 'Introduction To Karate'



thank you for your reply and book recommendation.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2015)

Curmudgeon said:


> thank you for your reply and book recommendation.




You're welcome. Wado Ryu is a brilliant karate style, very much worth learning. It is deep and rich in techniques and knowledge, as you progress you will see the jujutsu in there as well as pragmatic self defence techniques.  If you would also like to grapple I'd say take a BJJ or Judo class as well.


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## Jacky Zuki (Aug 30, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> In Wado Ryu jujutsu is not taught as a separate part, it is incorporated into the whole. There is no grappling as you would find in a jujutsu class.



True but many people coming into Wado from other Karate styles are sometimes surprised at how much throwing and locking is involved. The club I train with do actually go into the grappling a bit more than some but every Wado school I have entered has done some ground-fighting and more Ju Jutsu style stuff like mounts and leg locks. Break-falling is an integral part of Wado in my experience, I spent three years training in Shotokan and never once hit the floor, let alone had to tap out from a side mount. Usual disclaimers apply as to the variety of tastes and priorities of individual clubs.


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## Tez3 (Aug 30, 2015)

Jacky Zuki said:


> True but many people coming into Wado from other Karate styles are sometimes surprised at how much throwing and locking is involved. The club I train with do actually go into the grappling a bit more than some but every Wado school I have entered has done some ground-fighting and more Ju Jutsu style stuff like mounts and leg locks. Break-falling is an integral part of Wado in my experience, I spent three years training in Shotokan and never once hit the floor, let alone had to tap out from a side mount. Usual disclaimers apply as to the variety of tastes and priorities of individual clubs.




Yes, of course you are correct but as I said it's not taught, as the OP expected, in a different class. You don't do grappling in one session and stand up striking in another. It is integral, *as I said* in, Wado Ryu.


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## Manny (Sep 4, 2015)

I think wado ryu must be a very nice style of karate, sadly in my country there is not mucha baout it.

El Manny


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## Tez3 (Sep 4, 2015)

Manny said:


> I think wado ryu must be a very nice style of karate, sadly in my country there is not mucha baout it.
> 
> El Manny




It is, I love it. I found this, is it any good for you? WADO RYU- WADO KAI  UNIVERSIDAD DE GUADALAJARA, MEXICO.


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## Sojobo (Sep 14, 2015)

Curmudgeon said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've recently started at a dojo with Wado Karate.  I chose my school for a variety of reasons, and in my brief reading on Wado I frequently read about Wado being, roughly, a combination of jujutsu and karate.  I recall reading one quote attributed to Hironori Ohtsuka Meijin - "If Wado Karate was a soup, then the Karate part of Wado would just be like a pinch of salt!".
> 
> I'm curious if this sort of description rings true as a norm for dojos with Wado, how much focus is on the Karate aspect, how much on other elements, and in particular how much of the curriculum is or is derived from Jujutsu.  I ask because I'm starting to realize that the dojo I joined seems almost entirely Karate with the jujutsu elements being the "pinch of salt" in the curriculum.  From my inquiries, it seems as though it is taught occasionally and is not part of the belt requirements at all (instead it is an enormous focus on katas).  There is no grappling done whatsoever in adult classes.  Is this within normal parameters for a Wado school or have I found a dojo that is more of an outlier?



Hello Curmudgeon,

Apologies for arriving late to the chat, but if you are still reading this I'll give you my take on it.

The "pinch of salt" quote is difficult to fully appreciate. On the surface, most people read this as meaning the core ingredients of Wado-ryu are more Japanese Jujutsu in origin than Okinawan and whilst this may be true - it's a bit more complicated than that.

For starters, what most people have in their minds eye as Jujutsu, is probably very unlike the "Koryu" Jujutsu which make up the DNA of Wado.

Once you get your head round that, you can appreciate that the pedagogy of Wado-ryu is different also as a result.

If you are new to the system, then most of this is probably going to go over your head and to an extent, it doesn't matter, but It doesn't surprise me that you feel that what you are learning at the moment is all karate (and no jujutsu), because to a certain extent the first 3 or 4 years of study are seeming quite homogenous karate techniques - kicking, punch and kata etc.

In fact they are not homogenous karate techniques, they are techniques done in such a manner that is setting you up to start to move in a wado way and to use Wado principles. 

The "jujutsu" has already really started in this respect, but as I say, its not what most think of as jujutsu.

Latter in your career you will learn Kihon Kumite then after that maybe some Kumite Gata and Idori etc. All of these have their parentage in Koryu.

Just enjoy your training in the knowledge that Wado is very expansive - and its path a very enjoyable one to follow.

Sojobo


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Hello Curmudgeon,
> 
> Apologies for arriving late to the chat, but if you are still reading this I'll give you my take on it.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the detailed reply.  I'll keep an open mind.  In my own estimation of things it seems as though the focus is hugely on kata with what I would regard as an almost perfectionist focus on correct technique (foot is 10 degrees too far left, arm is a few inches too high here, your foot didn't quite land at the same time as the punch was executed, there was slightly too much pause between the simultaneous block & kick and the subsequent knife hand block, etc.).  There's a small amount of sparring.

I've started to feel more uncomfortable because I have doubts as to whether this is the art I want to study.  If that's the case then I'd like to make a decision to turn elsewhere sooner than later, before I've invested too much time in something that I don't like.  The kata seem to be more like a theatrical performance of sorts, and I've had one senior instructor acknowledge that much of the technique details would virtually never be executed in those ways during real world self defense or in sparring.  At first I had some relief in hearing that, but then I started to realize that I don't have the same enthusiasm for something that is aimed more towards these kata performances in and of themselves if there isn't a strong overlap and application to actual self defense, or even sparring for that matter.


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 15, 2015)

Jacky Zuki said:


> True but many people coming into Wado from other Karate styles are sometimes surprised at how much throwing and locking is involved. The club I train with do actually go into the grappling a bit more than some but every Wado school I have entered has done some ground-fighting and more Ju Jutsu style stuff like mounts and leg locks. Break-falling is an integral part of Wado in my experience, I spent three years training in Shotokan and never once hit the floor, let alone had to tap out from a side mount. Usual disclaimers apply as to the variety of tastes and priorities of individual clubs.



Ok now this and some of what Tez3 said are starting to get under my skin.  Now I feel like I'm missing out on something that to one degree or another would traditionally be present.

For your school and others, is the grappling, throws, locks, etc. part of the belt requirements?


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2015)

It sounds as if it's the instruction or the school that isn't delivering what you want rather than the style. There shouldn't be any emphasis on kata as a 'performance' not in any style let alone Wado. Have you watched the founder Ohtsuka Sensei doing the katas on video, there's no sense of performance. Kata's should be about techniques. Sometimes it's easier for instructors to teach kata and just that sadly. Have you seen any of Iain Abernethy's work, his original style was Wado ( he's also a Judoka) and his Bunkai work is based on Wado.
Without seeing what you are learning or your instructors work it's very hard for anyone to evaluate whether what they are doing is 'proper' Wado or just a watered down version.


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Curmudgeon said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply.  I'll keep an open mind.  In my own estimation of things it seems as though the focus is hugely on kata with what I would regard as an almost perfectionist focus on correct technique (foot is 10 degrees too far left, arm is a few inches too high here, your foot didn't quite land at the same time as the punch was executed, there was slightly too much pause between the simultaneous block & kick and the subsequent knife hand block, etc.).  There's a small amount of sparring.
> 
> I've started to feel more uncomfortable because I have doubts as to whether this is the art I want to study.  If that's the case then I'd like to make a decision to turn elsewhere sooner than later, before I've invested too much time in something that I don't like.  The kata seem to be more like a theatrical performance of sorts, and I've had one senior instructor acknowledge that much of the technique details would virtually never be executed in those ways during real world self defense or in sparring.  At first I had some relief in hearing that, but then I started to realize that I don't have the same enthusiasm for something that is aimed more towards these kata performances in and of themselves if there isn't a strong overlap and application to actual self defense, or even sparring for that matter.




Hi Curmudgeon,

It's important to know what you want from your martial arts training and the sooner you realise this, the quicker you can get on the road that best suits you.

Obviously, without being there, no one can judge whether your instructor is doing a good job or not, but I would say having a perfectionist view about kata is probably a good thing - the devil really is in the detail when it comes to learning these things properly. Correct form in basics and kata are the bedrock of good technical ability which will resonate throughout your Wado for years to come.

Wado-ryu is a carefully honed system. It is layered in its pedagogy and function and if learning how to defend yourself is an urgent requirement, then it probably isn't this system for you.

Like your instructor, I have often told students that techniques done it kata can not necessarily be applied combatively - and indeed they are not necessarily supposed to be.

This probably harks back to the "pinch of salt".

The way Wado is designed to be taught is similar to that of a koryu jujutsu rather than an Okinawan karate. Even the way the Kanji for Kata is written is different - and that's no mistake. In Wado we have Kata which is written as 形 (Gyo) instead of 型 (Kei) used in the Okinawan experience.

In nutshell "形 (Gyo)" means shape, form or mould. Whereas "型 (Kei)" means template or prototype.

It's difficult to get your head around, but Wado kata (gyo) is about practicing the form in order to train the body as a solo exercise, as opposed to Okinawan Kata (kei) which is more concerned with developing the techniques found within the kata (usually this takes the form of Bunkai with an opponent, so the techniques can be realised).

As a result, most Wado groups don't typically tend to utilise the process of "Bunkai" as part of their kata study, but instead use the body strengthening, and conditioning developed as a result of practicing solo kata and then apply this to the various paired kata found within the Wado-ryu.

Typically, most students aren't ready to be exposed to paired kata like kihon kumite, kumite gata and idori etc., until they have been studying for 2-3 years and then it takes many years after that before you start to understand how the paired kata work.

Practice Wado in its fullness and you have a system that covers multiple aspect of combat from striking to locks, holds, throws and ground techniques.

Unfortunately there is no quick fix. It’s a process and a system that takes time and most Wado-ka will tell you the journey is what it’s actually all about.

You have to decide if that is for you.


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Have you seen any of Iain Abernethy's work, his original style was Wado ( he's also a Judoka) and his Bunkai work is based on Wado.



Hi Tez,

Just to be clear. Mr Abernethy utilises Kata that he learnt from his time in Wado.

However his "Bunkai" work is NOT based on Wado for the reasons I have detailed above.

Rather than derail this thread, I can PM you some more details on where this subject went since we last wrote about it.


.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Hi Tez,
> 
> Just to be clear. Mr Abernethy utilises Kata that he learnt from his time in Wado.
> 
> ...



Sojobo, I asked him and he said it is based on Wado because that is his style, it has expanded to cover other styles and techniques since.


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Curmudgeon said:


> Ok now this and some of what Tez3 said are starting to get under my skin.  Now I feel like I'm missing out on something that to one degree or another would traditionally be present.
> 
> For your school and others, is the grappling, throws, locks, etc. part of the belt requirements?



As Jacky Zuki says tastes and priorities of individual clubs vary, but in my experience, the typical Wado club doesn't spend too much time practicing ukemi or ne-waza. That's something that is perhaps unique to that school.

Here is an example of some paired kata, which is probably more true to Wado-ryu's Nihon koryu jujutsu roots...

Kihon Kumite






Kumite Gata






Idori


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2015)

Hmm ... unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems like there are some differing answers from the Wado Ryu practitioners in the thread.

Just to clarify, can the Wado folks here explicitly spell out on average what percentage of class time you would typically spend on drilling grappling techniques (throws, sweeps, locks, etc) with a partner? Does that change at different belt levels?


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Sojobo, I asked him and he said it is based on Wado because that is his style, it has expanded to cover other styles and techniques since.



Tez, we have been here before...

Bunkai is NOT a Wado thing...

Ill PM you something


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Hmm ... unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems like there are some differing answers from the Wado Ryu practitioners in the thread.
> 
> Just to clarify, can the Wado folks here explicitly spell out on average what percentage of class time you would typically spend on drilling grappling techniques (throws, sweeps, locks, etc) with a partner? Does that change at different belt levels?



Impossible to answer.

We do not tend to compartmentalise training in this way.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Impossible to answer.
> 
> We do not tend to compartmentalise training in this way.


To clarify the question, I would count any paired kata or drill or kumite that included a throw, sweep, lock, or other grappling maneuver at some point in the process. The grappling doesn't have to be compartmentalized away from the striking. It just has to be present in some form.

Solo kata might have grappling techniques hidden in it (depending on whose interpretation you believe), but if you never actually practice those techniques with a partner you will never recognize those hidden movements or be able to use them.

Time spent punching and kicking pads, bags, or the air is not grappling by any stretch of the imagination.

Paired kata or one-steps or kumite or other technical drills that do not include any grabbing, locking, choking, sweeping, or throwing are not grappling.

Paired kata or one-steps or kumite or other technical drills with a partner that *do* include some form of grabbing, locking, choking, sweeping, or throwing are counted as grappling in this context for the purpose of this question.

So my question is, if a student at your dojo trained for 1000 hours over a the course of a few years, how much of that time would be spent doing paired kata or one-steps or kumite or other technical drills with a partner that *do* include some form of grabbing, locking, choking, sweeping, or throwing?

(Obviously I'm just asking for a general sense. I don't expect anyone to be able to say "precisely 21.7% of class time is spent on grappling.")


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Still impossible to answer.

I'm not trying to be evasive here but, as previously explained, the jujutsu that we do in Wado is not typical to gendai jujutsu.

For example, take a look at the videos I posted. What percentage of those would you classify as containing Locks, holds sweeps and throws etc?

And then some weeks greater focus is made on pair work than others.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> For example, take a look at the videos I posted. What percentage of those would you classify as containing Locks, holds sweeps and throws etc?



1st video: about 25% of the kata contained at least a bit of grappling. Some of the others ended up with an entry which could be used to start close range grappling or close range striking, but no grappling is actually performed.

2nd video: 3 of the 10 kata contain unambiguous grappling. Another 5 end with an entry that sets up the angle and most of the position for a simple throw or sweep, but the throw or sweep is never performed and the position is never finalized. If the practitioners drill the actual completion of the throws at some other point in their training, I'll give those 5 half-credit.

3rd video: All of these moves contain grappling.



Sojobo said:


> And then some weeks greater focus is made on pair work than others.



That's why I asked for a general sense of the average time spent over the course of years.


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Again, depends on grade and ability.

In our seniors club for example (most of which are Dan grades), I would say about 20-30% of the average keiko was taken up with training such pair work.

[Edit] but to give the OP some comfort, as I have said, Wado is a progressional thing. I doubt he'd be exposed to any of the posted techniques for several years.

Most clubs have their own "bridging" pair work to get their students ready - these aren't however formal Wado kata


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> 1st video: about 25% of the kata contained at least a bit of grappling. Some of the others ended up with an entry which could be used to start close range grappling or close range striking, but no grappling is actually performed.
> 
> 2nd video: 3 of the 10 kata contain unambiguous grappling. Another 5 end with an entry that sets up the angle and most of the position for a simple throw or sweep, but the throw or sweep is never performed and the position is never finalized. If the practitioners drill the actual completion of the throws at some other point in their training, I'll give those 5 half-credit.
> 
> 3rd video: All of these moves contain grappling.



And of course, looking beyond grappling, what these kata also teach is stuff like kuzushi, atemi waza and nage-waza etc.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> And of course, looking beyond grappling, what these kata also teach is stuff like kuzushi, atemi waza and nage-waza etc.


I'd count kuzushi and nage-waza as part of grappling.


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## Sojobo (Sep 15, 2015)

Along with atemi - kuzushi and nage waza make up the lion share of our pair work then.


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Still impossible to answer.
> 
> I'm not trying to be evasive here but, as previously explained, the jujutsu that we do in Wado is not typical to gendai jujutsu.
> 
> ...



This is helpful, thank you.  Some at the end of the first video.  More in the second.  And the third video seems like jujitsu to my pre-conception of things.   Appreciate you finding those videos, Sojobo.


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Tez, we have been here before...
> 
> Bunkai is NOT a Wado thing...
> 
> Ill PM you something




Please do not PM me as you are mistaken, again, about what I'm talking about, I really don't want to go through a pointless conversation ...again. Whether bunkai is a Wado 'thing' or not is irrelevant, for many of us, we do Bunkai regardless of style. Those of us who do Wado, use the Wado kata as a basis for our bunkai as funnily enough that's the kata we know therefore for us bunkai *is* a Wado thing. That you don't think like that is of no concern to me frankly. PMs are not welcome.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Those of us who do Wado, use the Wado kata as a basis for our bunkai as funnily enough that's the kata we know therefore for us bunkai *is* a Wado thing. That you don't think like that is of no concern to me frankly. PMs are not welcome.


 Bunkai may be a thing within YOUR Wado group, but it's wholey inaccurate to make a sweeping generalisation that Bunkai IS therefore a wado thing because it isn't - for the very clear reasons I have stated above.

I went to PM to offer you some further explanation as to why, whilst also trying to avoid derailing this thread. It is of course down to you whether you want to read any of it.

Only trying to help in a way of Peace and Harmony


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Curmudgeon said:


> This is helpful, thank you.  Some at the end of the first video.  More in the second.  And the third video seems like jujitsu to my pre-conception of things.   Appreciate you finding those videos, Sojobo.



No problem, however as explained, these techniques do not tend to practiced (or at least start to be practiced) until the student has been training for a number of years.

You mustn't think that just because your group doesn't teach you these yet, it means you probably aren't in a decent Wado school.

Have you seen any of the seniors in your class practicing pair-work similar to this?


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Bunkai may be a thing within YOUR Wado group, but it's wholey inaccurate to make a sweeping generalisation that Bunkai IS therefore a wado thing because it isn't - for the very clear reasons I have stated above.
> 
> I went to PM to offer you some further explanation as to why, whilst also trying to avoid derailing this thread. It is of course down to you whether you want to read any of it.
> 
> Only trying to help in a way of Peace and Harmony




It's equally wrong to make sweeping statements that it's not now a part of many Wado karateka's training not just my 'group' as you call it. I know many Wado people around the world who practise bunkai. The thing is, I've never said that bunkai is an integral part of Wado, you have assumed that I said it. I have said  Iain's work is based on Wado kata, which it is as like us that was the kata's he knew, you said he utilises the kata from Wado...we have said exactly the same thing except you chose to think I meant something else. Semantics.


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## Cirdan (Sep 16, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Hmm ... unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems like there are some differing answers from the Wado Ryu practitioners in the thread.
> 
> Just to clarify, can the Wado folks here explicitly spell out on average what percentage of class time you would typically spend on drilling grappling techniques (throws, sweeps, locks, etc) with a partner? Does that change at different belt levels?



Hard to pin down the exact percentage, and I think this varies a lot from school to school.
Grabbing your partner and unbalancing/maintaining a superior position is important at all levels. 
Throws sweeps and locks are here and there in the pairs work but it does not become a major part until around brown belt level.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> It's equally wrong to make sweeping statements that it's not now a part of many Wado karateka's training not just my 'group' as you call it. I know many Wado people around the world who practise bunkai.



You have misunderstood me Tez,

I am well aware that Bunkai is practiced amongst some Wado groups, and that's their prerogative, but a whole different ball park. The system set up by Otsuka never included the Bunkai approach (for reasons I have explained).

So it's a "bolt-on" that has been adopted by some groups, but that in itself doesn't justify suggesting that it could/should therefore be considered a Wado thing.



Tez3 said:


> The thing is, I've never said that bunkai is an integral part of Wado, you have assumed that I said it



Well, you pretty much alluded to it here...



Tez3 said:


> Sometimes it's easier for instructors to teach kata and just that sadly. Have you seen any of Iain Abernethy's work, his original style was Wado ( he's also a Judoka) and his Bunkai work is based on Wado.



Thing is, this thread is about a person new to Wado, trying to establish whether his/her group is offering quality Wado instruction in the correct manner.

From what I'm reading from his posts, they are concentrating on making sure he learns good quality basics and kata to an almost perfectionist level.

Provided of course he is being taught it properly (and neither of us knows that without being there  ) - I feel that this is far more valuable (from a Wado perspective anyway) than suggesting he look and or compare it with what may be offered along the Bunkai path.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

You saw a connection that wasn't there. I didn't allude to it, I asked a question because many people see kata as pointless, as you pointed out (I didn't miss it btw) the OP is a beginner, perhaps a wider view of kata would be more beneficial than a lecture about the purity of Wado Ryu.
I think perhaps less focus on pointing out to me my sins and more focus on the OP would be beneficial. I know you have a bee in your bonnet about kata, bunkai and Wado being in the same sentence but it has nothing to do with the OP's question.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> You saw a connection that wasn't there. I didn't allude to it, I asked a question because many people see kata as pointless, as you pointed out (I didn't miss it btw) the OP is a beginner, perhaps a wider view of kata would be more beneficial than a lecture about the purity of Wado Ryu.
> I think perhaps less focus on pointing out to me my sins and more focus on the OP would be beneficial. I know you have a bee in your bonnet about kata, bunkai and Wado being in the same sentence but it has nothing to do with the OP's question.



Tez,

I've clearly rattled your cage, but frankly, I'm not interested in pointing out your sins. I have too many of my own to cope with 



.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Tez,
> 
> I've clearly rattled your cage, but frankly, I'm not interested in pointing out your sins. I have too many of my own to cope with
> 
> ...



Cage not rattled at all but the OP is a beginner so I was keeping things simple, a look at bunkai does no harm.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> a look at bunkai does no harm.



From a Wado perspective, I actually think it does, but clearly we are not going have any sort of meeting of the minds here.

Back to trying to help the OP - what are your thoughts on the pair work kata I posted?


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## Cirdan (Sep 16, 2015)

To the OP, Wado is a technique nazi style. The perfection of stances and execution of technique in dynamic movement. This is not about performance, it is about structure, speed, conservation of energy, delivery, rooting and power. It is raw physics married to body mechanics.  

I also questioned if this was the right art for me in the beginning. after doing some research on wado as well as other styles and arts I realized it could (and indeed would) be an extremely rewarding style to study and study hard. However I also eventually got into some other arts where I could get to spar a bit more, getting the best of both worlds.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> It is raw physics married to body mechanics.



Oh I like that!


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> From a Wado perspective, I actually think it does, but clearly we are not going have any sort of meeting of the minds here.
> 
> Back to trying to help the OP - what are your thoughts on the pair work kata I posted?



Not from a Wado perspective, from your perspective. All stylists should be open to ideas, as Cirdan says, you can have the best of both world studying other things as well.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Not from a Wado perspective, from your perspective. All stylists should be open to ideas, as Cirdan says, you can have the best of both world studying other things as well.



Not really,

It's also the perspective of most of the senior Wado-ka who write about it in detail in the PMs you don't want to read.

I also study Jujutsu and Kenjutsu and really enjoy it!

Neither make my Wado any better.

Now lets keep on track. What did you think of the vids


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Not really,
> 
> It's also the perspective of most of the senior Wado-ka who write about it in detail in the PMs you don't want to read.
> 
> ...




I don't know why you are making this personal to me...again. people who are like minded stay together, it doesn't make them right. All I'm going to say because I'm somewhat rushing for time is Shana Tova and that should tell you why I'm busy.


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

Don't take it personally Tez,

Like you I get passionate about these things 

Best of luck.


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## Tez3 (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> Don't take it personally Tez,
> 
> Like you I get passionate about these things
> 
> Best of luck.




I'm not taking it personally, I'm up to my eyes in cooking as well as a few other things. I simply don't have the time for drawn out arguments.


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## Cirdan (Sep 16, 2015)

Sojobo said:


> I also study Jujutsu and Kenjutsu and really enjoy it!
> 
> Neither make my Wado any better.



I have done the same arts tho very limited kenjutsu. If you keep an open and focused mind I have found all of them add to your understanding of the others, seeing in 360 degrees if you will


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## Sojobo (Sep 16, 2015)

The particular Jujutsu I studied doesn't compliment my Wado - it was too different.The Kenjutsu on the other hand certainly sharpens one understanding of "sei-chu-sen".

So from a broader martial perspective they have helped and I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing.

But as far as getting better at Wado is concerned, the best way to do it is to practice Wado.


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