# 'Thor' fans protest black actor



## Nomad (Mar 8, 2011)

Read the article

Seems a little bit of a departure from the source material to cast a black actor as a Norse God... kind of like casting Mark Wahlburg as Mohammed Ali.



> Fumed one fan in an online foum: "This PC crap has gone too far! Norse deities are not of an African ethnicity! ... It's the principle of the matter. It's about respecting the integrity of the source material, both comics and Norse mythologies



From the actor in question:



> "We have a man (Thor) who has a flying hammer and wears horns on his head. And yet me being an actor of African descent playing a Norse god is unbelievable?" he went on. "I mean, Cleopatra was played by Elizabeth Taylor, and Gandhi was played by Ben Kingsley." (Kingsley's father was of Indian descent.)



For that matter, I've always been curious as to why Roman and Greek Heroes inevitably have British accents?

Thoughts?


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## Blindside (Mar 8, 2011)

It is a comic book interpretation of a mythology, so does the apparent race of Heimdall really impact your ability to suspend your disbelief?


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## Ken Morgan (Mar 8, 2011)

Well you wouldn&#8217;t have a man play a woman, or an old person play a teenager, but how do we know the Thor wasn&#8217;t black? He/she is a god, they can appear however they chose to be.

Years from now when I get to Valhalla, I&#8217;ll let you all know the truth.


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## Omar B (Mar 8, 2011)

I like people getting worked up over one actor.  Marvel's Thor was never the Thor of myth, only inspired by him.  Makes me wonder why people have not objected to a "Hun," "Englishman" and "German" fit in since The Warriors 3 are part of Thor's crew and they are not what the sticklers would say is accurate since they are not Norse by any means ... but they work in the story.


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## Nomad (Mar 8, 2011)

Blindside said:


> It is a comic book interpretation of a mythology, so does the apparent race of Heimdall really impact your ability to suspend your disbelief?



Actually, I'm a bit on the fence in this one.  I think valid arguments can be made on both sides.  It won't impact my enjoyment of the movie, but does seem like a very strange casting choice.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Mar 8, 2011)

I have the vast majority of comics featuring Thor going back close to the beginning.
I am a huge fan of Thor and the entire Comicbook take on Asgard.
I was also a huge fan of Stargate and their take on Thor and the Asgardians being aliens who could manipulate their appearance through science.
I am sure I will watch the movie, and as long as Heimdall is a bad *** I wont give a crap that hes not the traditional Norse look.
I mean the warriors three will be in the movie as well and I am pretty sure they are not going to nail Volstaggs girth at all in anyway shape or form..
also if I remember right Hogun is going to be playing by a Japanese actor.
I guess if Heimdall was my favorite character, and I thought of him as a main guy I might be pissed if they changed him like this, but hes not and it doenst bother me..
I actually like the new Nick Fury better then the old... and let me tell you Samuel Jackson beats out David Hasselhoff every day of the week as the man!
if Thor was changed.. I wouldnt watch it...
If Captain America had been cast as Will Smith... I wouldnt watch that either..
If the Black Panther, Falcon, Blade, Luke Cage, or Storm was cast as anyone other then the traditional race I would be pissed.
You grow up reading the comics, and the main characters and you develop a great imagination of them in action, its great to see casting that brings that imagination to life, and nothing is worse then when your entire childhood imagination of a character is crushed by bad acting, or a major change...


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## Bill Mattocks (Mar 8, 2011)

I think it is all very silly.


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## Bruno@MT (Mar 8, 2011)

I can see both sides. On one hand it shouldn't matter. Just like having Samuel L Jackson as a jedi was not an issue. On the other hand, Thor is a Norse guy. Not black. You can argue that that doesn't matter, but would people have accepted a white guy being cast as Malcolm X or Mohammed Ali? or Shaft? Some things just don't make sense.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Mar 8, 2011)

Bruno@MT said:


> I can see both sides. On one hand it shouldn't matter. Just like having Samuel L Jackson as a jedi was not an issue. On the other hand, Thor is a Norse guy. Not black. You can argue that that doesn't matter, but would people have accepted a white guy being cast as Malcolm X or Mohammed Ali? or Shaft? Some things just don't make sense.


 
why would there have been a problem with Samuel Jacksom being a Jedi?
I dont remember anything ever that said only white humans could be Jedi...
I dont think thats a good comparison at all.
the rest of your comment I agree with though.


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## CoryKS (Mar 8, 2011)

Come on now, we have to make sure the Thor movie retains the level of historical accuracy that has been the hallmark of the comic book series.


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## Steve (Mar 8, 2011)

Just not an issue for me.  It's all make believe, and comic book authors have never been overly concerned with historical accuracy.


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## Blindside (Mar 8, 2011)

stevebjj said:


> Just not an issue for me. It's all make believe, and comic book authors have never been overly concerned with historical accuracy.


 
You mean like having helmets with horns (and wings) when that would be ahistoric and martially stupid, sort of like a cape for a guy who is going to get involved in hand to hand fights with some regularity.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2011)

:viking3: Heimdall

Beyond that :shrug:


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## Empty Hands (Mar 8, 2011)

Hint: the Norse Gods in this movie aren't Norse, nor are they Gods.  They are super-advanced aliens using the Norse Gods as inspiration.  Something to keep in mind for any complainers about "historical accuracy".


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## MA-Caver (Mar 8, 2011)

SIGH... it's hollywood okay?


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## oaktree (Mar 8, 2011)

Well there were Black vikings...


> *A prominent Viking of the eleventh century was Thorhall*, who was aboard the ship that carried the early Vikings to the shores of North America. Thorhall was "the huntsman in summer, and in winter the steward of Eric the Red.  He was, it is said, *a large man, and strong, black*, and like a giant, silent, and foul-mouthed in his speech, and always egged on Eric to the worst; he was a bad Christian."


http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/british.html

So if there were black vikings it stands that there should be Black Norse myths.

Besides Norse Myths can get weird:


> In addition, some of the Norse gods were capable of changing gender at will, for example Loki, the trickster god, frequently disguised himself as a woman and *gave birth to a foal while in the form of a white mare, after a sexual encounter with the stallion **Svaðilfari**.* Comparison of a man to a child-bearing woman was a common insult in Scandinavia, and the implication that Loki may be bisexual could have been considered an insult.[30]


So not only did Loki become a Female horse he had sex with a stallion(maybe he was Italian) but also gave birth. I wonder if Tom Hiddleston will do this too.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2011)

funny...no one seemed to care when Angelina Jolie was kind of sorta cast as Grendel's Mother :uhyeah:


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## granfire (Mar 8, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> Years from now when I get to Valhalla, Ill let you all know the truth.


I doubt you'll find the time between raising he** and feasting....


Considering that Thor is the master of thunder...he might have stood too close to a lightning bolt... 


(Nerd Rage, is all that it is...)


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## ATACX GYM (Mar 8, 2011)

LuckyKBoxer said:


> I have the vast majority of comics featuring Thor going back close to the beginning.
> I am a huge fan of Thor and the entire Comicbook take on Asgard.
> I was also a huge fan of Stargate and their take on Thor and the Asgardians being aliens who could manipulate their appearance through science.
> I am sure I will watch the movie, and as long as Heimdall is a bad *** I wont give a crap that hes not the traditional Norse look.
> ...


 
I am a total comic geek and I'm Black.I'm very much in favor of most of what Lucky posted here,but I'm also a bit impacted by the decision to flip Thor into a African-American.It's true that Thor's archetype can be traced back to the African Gods so we can say historically that the "original" Thor was indeed African,just as the "original" Captain America was Black (JUSTICE,RED WHITE AND BLACK) although Steve Rogers is the first fully functional SSS warrior without any form of mental degradation,sooo...it CAN work.

But truthfully it's no more of a stretch than making The Prince of Persia White and most of the old skool Egyptians anything other than Black.All the old skool "Egyptians" and Pharoahs are Black but you can't tell it by how Hollywood portrays them,sooo...at worst this is Hollywood continuing their wholesale screwup of history and changing it to make them more money.Now if King Arthur was Black and TChalla The Black Panther became White? Yeah...problem.Oh,wait...lolol

And curses for beating me to the Thorhall punch.Lololol.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 8, 2011)

Interesting note:

The Prose Edda (sort of like Genesis for Norse Mythology) has - in the translation I have on hand - Thor coming north out of a great civilization out of an area described as around Persia/Turkey. 

Lot of black folks in Persia and Turkey....


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## girlbug2 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wait, what film are we discussing? According to IMDB, Kenneth Branagh's Thor is cast as Chris Hemsworth--a very pale white guy.

Is somebody trying out an early April Fool's joke?


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2011)

girlbug2 said:


> Wait, what film are we discussing? According to IMDB, Kenneth Branagh's Thor is cast as Chris Hemsworth--a very pale white guy.
> 
> Is somebody trying out an early April Fool's joke?


 
they are talking about Idris Elba being cast as Heimdal in the movie Thor


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> funny...no one seemed to care when Angelina Jolie was kind of sorta cast as Grendel's Mother :uhyeah:


What race was that woman supposed to be?
Sean


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## granfire (Mar 9, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> What race was that woman supposed to be?
> Sean



you think anybody would notice?!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> What race was that woman supposed to be?
> Sean


 
She was suoppose to be this






Or this






or maybe this







But she ended up this






And no one complained at all


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 9, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> She was suoppose to be this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always been Camp Jennifer, but She had to take human form, to make sweet monster love to Baowulf.
Sean


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## Nomad (Mar 9, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> But she ended up this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, duh.  Personally, I think Hollywood made an excellent choice on this one...


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 9, 2011)

Nomad said:


> Well, duh. Personally, I think Hollywood made an excellent choice on this one...


 
True and I will admit that was the only reason I watched that movie... but.. I am now wondering if anyone would have complained if Grendels mother was played by Halle Berry


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## David43515 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ken Morgan said:


> Well you wouldnt have a man play a woman, or an old person play a teenager, but how do we know the Thor wasnt black? He/she is a god, they can appear however they chose to be.
> 
> Years from now when I get to Valhalla, Ill let you all know the truth.


 
In Shakespear`s time all female parts were played by men. This is still the case in Japanese Kabuki theatre. The character of Juliet in Romeo and Juliet is 14 yrs old and is usually played by adults, often middle-aged adults. We used to joke alot about Beverly Hills 90210 and Welcome back Kotter or Head of the Class because of all the 30-35 yr old "teenagers" on the show. In all the old Charlie Chan movies Hollywood made, Chan was played by white actors including a Swedish immigrant at one point.In the Remo Williams movie and the TV version the Korean character Shun was played by white actors. In the 7 year itch, the Japanese neighbor was played by Mickey Rooney. Sir Lawrence Olivier was famous for his portrayal of Othello, a black Moor. So were Richard Burton, John Guilgud,and Anthony Hopkins. In a COMPLETE role reversal Patrick Stewart played a white Othello where the entire rest of the cast was black. And Denzel Washington played Marc Anthony in Julius Cesar on broadway just a couple years ago. I believe Antonio Banderas was the first hispanic to ever play Zorro. Yul Brenner made a career out of playing the king of Siam in the king and I. And since it`s a martial arts board, what about casting David Carradine in Kung Fu? (I know the character was supposedly only 1/2 chinese....But when they revived it for modern times with kung fu the legend continues, the character whose family had supposedly been living ing the US since the late 1800`s STILL spoke with an accent.)


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## ATACX GYM (Mar 9, 2011)

MA-Caver said:


> SIGH... it's hollywood okay?


 

And there ya are.


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## ATACX GYM (Mar 9, 2011)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Interesting note:
> 
> The Prose Edda (sort of like Genesis for Norse Mythology) has - in the translation I have on hand - Thor coming north out of a great civilization out of an area described as around Persia/Turkey.
> 
> Lot of black folks in Persia and Turkey....


 

Beautiful point.I recall first coming across The Prose Edda after I became interested in Martin Bernal's book called "BLACK ATHENA",but Idc if Thor was White as Brad Pitt.Ole dude is ill as can be and I freakin fell in love with Norse Greek and Roman mythology.


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## Omar B (Mar 10, 2011)

Also, Marvel's "Norse" characters are not in fact from earth myth, but advanced aliens that came into contact with humans at some point and kick started the stories.

The movies seem to be going in this direction (from the Thor trailor when he says that where he's from magic and technology are the same thing) and the fact that in the Avengers movie the villains will be The Skrull and The Kree, waring alien societies braught into the story by who?  Loki.

Also we can look to the source material itself.  Beta Ray Bill, an alien carried Thor's hammer and wore a version of his uniform for a while before he was given his own.  (I will point out that Beta ray Bill destroys Thor any day of the week in a fair fight).






Or How about The Hulk showing up in Asgard all the time.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansi...vidence_Of_Skrulls_AND_Kree_In_iThe_Avengersi


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## Omar B (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok, I'm home sick with the flu, reading too much and having thoughts randomly connect where they shouldn't.  But a thought hit me while reading some Conan here.  That is, Thor and his pantheon, much like other popular literary characters, people think they know, but really don't.  

Just like I've never seen an accurate James Bond, Tarzan, Conan, Sherlock Holmes story onscreen, but we have seen many adaptations and pastiches, giving people a very concrete idea of what many of these characters are not.  

Any comic fan could tell you that Marvel's Thor and the Nordic Thor relate in name and title only.  But I can guarantee most of these complainers get their idea of who he is from badly made cartoons.  

Reminds me of this "Batman fan" (because he had a tattoo) who would swear up and down that The Joker killed Bruce's parents.  He was clearly wrong, Joe Chill was the murderer, but this person's knowledge of the character was based upon Tim Burton's movie.


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## granfire (Mar 10, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Ok, I'm home sick with the flu, reading too much and having thoughts randomly connect where they shouldn't.  But a thought hit me while reading some Conan here.  That is, Thor and his pantheon, much like other popular literary characters, people think they know, but really don't.
> 
> Just like I've never seen an accurate James Bond, Tarzan, Conan, Sherlock Holmes story onscreen, but we have seen many adaptations and pastiches, giving people a very concrete idea of what many of these characters are not.
> 
> ...



Strangely enough I had similar thoughts (even without knowing the actual story behind the characters) that the association with Thor=fair skinned is stemming from half informed minds.

(One reasons I am trying to tell my kid to read instead of relying on the movies)


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## Omar B (Mar 10, 2011)

I totally understand that there are Thor fans who have never opened a Thor book, hell, I asked one guy bitching about it at work if he had ever read one and his answer was "no."  But he doesn't need to, he's seen enough cartoons to know ... this guy who swore up and down that Thor is a DC character.

Or the Batman fan I mentioned earlier who had never read a Batman or Batman related (Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, GCPD, The Outsiders, etc) book.

I've got no problem with people who have not read the books, but these people tend to be the loudest protestors when it comes to what they perceive as changes to the character.  "Bond's not serious, he cracks wise," "Sherlock Holmes does not have a drug addiction," "Conan's parents were killed and he's out for revenge," I could go on.


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 10, 2011)

Omar B said:


> I totally understand that there are Thor fans who have never opened a Thor book, hell, I asked one guy bitching about it at work if he had ever read one and his answer was "no."  But he doesn't need to, he's seen enough cartoons to know ... this guy who swore up and down that Thor is a DC character.
> 
> Or the Batman fan I mentioned earlier who had never read a Batman or Batman related (Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, GCPD, The Outsiders, etc) book.
> 
> I've got no problem with people who have not read the books, but these people tend to be the loudest protestors when it comes to what they perceive as changes to the character.  "Bond's not serious, he cracks wise," "Sherlock Holmes does not have a drug addiction," "Conan's parents were killed and he's out for revenge," I could go on.


I like reading Wilbur Smith books, and I suggest them to anyone; however, one thing that bothers me is his constant whitening of African history. Every cool thing, including the Pyramids, were built by blonde haired blue eyed white people before being over-ran with black or darker skinned whites. It bothers me; however, I still read them, and can't wait for the next to come out.
Sean


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## Flying Crane (Mar 10, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> funny...no one seemed to care when Angelina Jolie was kind of sorta cast as Grendel's Mother :uhyeah:


 
OH I CARED ALL RIGHT!!!  I WAS DOWNRIGHT PISSED OFF!!!

That was one of the dumbest things ever done by Hollywood, right down to the high-heeled feet.  Yes, that's FEET, not SHOES!!!

Beowulf is a great story and could be a great movie if they stick to the damn story.  But they don't, they just **** it up and cast people like angelina jolie as Grendel's mother.  stupid.  stupid.  stupid.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 11, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Just like I've never seen an accurate James Bond,



I dunno...Danny Craig in "Casino Royale" just about nailed it, if you make allowances for new technology.


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## granfire (Mar 11, 2011)

bushidomartialarts said:


> I dunno...Danny Craig in "Casino Royale" just about nailed it, if you make allowances for new technology.



It's been a while since I read the book...but how close is the movie to it...
(ignorance is bliss sometimes: I always rather enjoyed Bond movies, not knowing there were actual books...)


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## Nomad (Mar 11, 2011)

Omar B said:


> Ok, I'm home sick with the flu, reading too much and having thoughts randomly connect where they shouldn't.  But a thought hit me while reading some Conan here.  That is, Thor and his pantheon, much like other popular literary characters, people think they know, but really don't.
> 
> Just like I've never seen an accurate James Bond, Tarzan, Conan, Sherlock Holmes story onscreen, but we have seen many adaptations and pastiches, giving people a very concrete idea of what many of these characters are not.
> 
> ...



Well, personally I'm more familiar with Thor and the rest of the pantheon through a variety of fantasy novels (whose "authenticity" can obviously be questioned as well), such as those by Mickey Zucker Reichart (Renshai books were fantastic), Harry Harrison's Hammer & Cross series, and others, though I did collect the comics for awhile way back when as well.  

There's also a great power metal album by Wizard, called "Odin", which does a great overview of the Asgardian mythos, along with the advent of Ragnarok.  Worth a listen if you're a metal fan at all.

Not to mention the fantastic movie Erik the Viking.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Mar 11, 2011)

Guys its a damn Marvel Comicbook movie.
Its based on the marvel comics universe.
you guys are reaching all over the place lol.
this is not some documentary on the history of the emergence of Norse mythology...
the source material is pretty to the point, its right there for all to see at anytime.
we are talking about people who are in most cases lifelong fans of the comic books and the characters who are complaining because this rails against what they grew up on, imagined, and fantisized about for years based on the pictures in comicbooks.
I think I already made my thoughts clear that changing a relatively minor character in the story doesnt bother me, but the biggest gripe most comic book fans have is when these movies change things up so drastically... its why the xmen movies and fox are hated by comicbook fans for what they did to the characters... especially deadpool in the last wolverine movie.
unfortunately I think alot of these fans are being a little more then unrealistic..
if it was up to them the comicbook movies would cost in the billions, last for dozens of hours, and only appeal to a small percentage of the public.
unfortunately for the comic book fans, the studios have fractions of that budget, about 3 hours at the most to tell stories, and have to make changes to appeal to the largest possible audience...
as long as the story is good, the main characters are not changed to much from the source material, and it sparks my memories of a childhood spent devouring comicbook stories and art then I am happy.


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## Omar B (Mar 11, 2011)

granfire said:


> It's been a while since I read the book...but how close is the movie to it...
> (ignorance is bliss sometimes: I always rather enjoyed Bond movies, not knowing there were actual books...)



It was a decent movie but a far cry from a good CR adaptation.  The 2 first kills were wrong, he used a sniper rifle in Rockefeller Center, NY for the first and strangled the second.  The setting was moved from France to Montenegro this eliminating why the assigned Bond to the case (He's been going to Casino Royal almost every weekend to gamble since college so him being there would not raise an eyebrow).  Le Chiffre is not a pimp owning a string of "hotels" up and down the coast of the small town Royal Le Aux.  

Then we get to The Bahamas, where they tell the actual Quantum Of Solace story from a parallel POV.  Rich man, adulterous wife, sleeps with men at her husband's club.  

There's no attempt to blow up Bond with an explosive planted on the walkway from the casino.

I could go on, but it's not needed.  The actual adaptation of the book doesn't start till about halfway through the movie when they Bond, Matthis and Vesper are having lunch.  Oh, and turning one of Bond's greatest allies Matthis into a traitor I hated to no end.  The guy's saved Bond's life many times over the years and the two are like brothers.  

It sticks kinda close to the book till Bond is in recovery, then it veers off wildly again.  Matthis is arrested as a traitor, Vesper does not kill herself with an overdose of pills and leaves Bond a letter explaining everything.  They also left out the speech where Bond explains who he is and why he does what he does.

As far as portrayal, DC was close, but Dalton was closer.


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## Omar B (Apr 11, 2011)

Look at the awesome!  http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansi...rs_Featured_New_High-Resolution_iTHORi_Images


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## granfire (Apr 11, 2011)

:swoon:


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