# Charging opponent



## :Stick&Blade::Warrior (Feb 13, 2009)

A co-worker asked me how i would deal with a charging opponent in a self defense scenario, with the following assumptions:

1. Person performing the charge is 6'-0', heavy set, around 280 lbs.
2. Person has little or no experience in martial arts.
3. Person is 5 feet away before beginning to charge.
4. Person is charging with their forearms protecting their head (like a boxer stance). 
5.You're in a small room with furniture (assume little room to maneuver).
6. You're armed only with an expandable baton.
7. You're 5'-8", around 180 lbs (he outweighs your considerably)

Personally, given the opponent's size, i would attempt to strike the chin with an upward strike, then get ready to grapple. 

how would you deal with the situation?


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## CoryKS (Feb 13, 2009)

Sidestep, kick the knee.


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## Hagakure (Feb 13, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Sidestep, kick the knee.



Good call. Get out the way of their weight. Stamp to the throat, and run.


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## Stan (Feb 13, 2009)

I really think a charging opponent, especially if they're unarmed, is easier to deal with than one who sets their weight and attacks with proper stability.


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## seasoned (Feb 13, 2009)

Side step, maintain my balance while I use that 
expandable baton on his legs.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 13, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> Sidestep, kick the knee.


 
Yup

Or just trip them as they pass, but I like the whole kicking the knee thing better :EG:


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## Sandstorm (Feb 13, 2009)

:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 6. You're armed only with an expandable baton.


 
Lucky you! Fortunate enough to be armed at least:wink1:



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> Personally, given the opponent's size, i would attempt to strike the chin with an upward strike, then get ready to grapple.


 
I wouldn't recommend that at all. Unless you are an accomplished grappler and have rolled with bigger opponants in aggressive sparring, I think you'd end up being botty-raped by this guy:lol:.
Seriously though, the option of sidestep and kick is good, providing your timing is good. As has been mentioned already, this secnario of a lumbering oaf charging is far better and more controllable than someone with a solid base. You have that batton, use it! Hit him repeatedly in the knees, shins, hands, and once he's hit the wall, strike the head. Don't kill the guy if you can help it, but then, this depends on the whole reason your there in the first place, locked in a small room with a big guy and only an extendable batton:bomb:

Hope this helps.

Regards

John


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 13, 2009)

:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> A co-worker asked me how i would deal with a charging opponent in a self defense scenario, with the following assumptions:



It is always good to have assumptions defined.   



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 1. Person performing the charge is 6'-0', heavy set, around 280 lbs.



This guy is smaller than me. So, I would have multiple options. I could stay as his mass is close to mine, but not as tall nor as large. Given the description as stated. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 2. Person has little or no experience in martial arts.



Does Football or Wrestling count?

Being tackled still hurts, having a double leg take down still hurts.

Also, just being run over can hurt. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 3. Person is 5 feet away before beginning to charge.



Not that long to get up to much of a head of steam and not too far to get tired of give you much time. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 4. Person is charging with their forearms protecting their head (like a boxer stance).



 Good info.  But even with hands up the top of the head could be open. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 5.You're in a small room with furniture (assume little room to maneuver).



Nice environment comes into play. So this is not the gym with open floor or the parking lot with no cars around. But who says stepping on chairs and tables is not allowed. I have been known to stop drop and roll under a table to get away from four charging guys. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 6. You're armed only with an expandable baton.



Could I have a pen instead? 

No Seriously could I have a pen instead. The baton is a weapon offensive or defensive it is a weapon. The pen even a knife has a use as a tool. 

But even with that said, unless the weapon was in your hand you would not have time to deploy. Or at least the average person would not. 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> 7. You're 5'-8", around 180 lbs (he outweighs your considerably)



Now comes the personal qualifications. 

Are you trained? How long and in what? 



:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> Personally, given the opponent's size, i would attempt to strike the chin with an upward strike, then get ready to grapple.
> 
> how would you deal with the situation?



I would the person is that much larger than you, or me I would not go for the grapple. Having lots of mass roll over on you can take away your breath. If you cannot breath you cannot defend. 

I might grab him and fall back and use my legs to throw him over me. You did say the opponent was not trained so this move could work if you have the timing. The legs are strong and I have shown that while 90 lb women may not be able to hold my weight up for long they can hold me up long enough to point me off line to them. 

If baton is in hand, strike straight down to the top of the head. If you hit hands or head it dos not matter. 

If I could jump up on a chair or table to generate space, I would try. It would also force him to change levels to keep up his charge. 

If I could not move off line and defend then I would try a palm heel or open hand strike to the crown and try to compress the spine. A little wobble after impact is translated to the head and then spine. It has effect, as long as the person is not on drugs or so mad they cannot feel anything.


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## sjansen (Feb 13, 2009)

Say "thank you", side step, neck hold, bull dog, steer wrestle and comence to putting them on the ground and leave. If they have such little knowledge of the martial arts you have little to fear.

They are just trying to get out of the situation like you are. They just don't know how.


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## jks9199 (Feb 13, 2009)

Side-stepping or evasion is the key; your options grow exponentially once you're off the direct line of that attack.  Consider a matador; a bull outweighs him by orders of magnitude, but with deft stepping and spins, he avoids and tires the bull.

Use the same principle; move off the line of the attack, and then you can do something as simple as tripping them, or as complex as some form of lock and trap, leading to a choke.  Personally, I'd recommend, as a first move, with little training, a simple push from behind will have a very good chance of landing them face first on the ground.


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## seasoned (Feb 14, 2009)

:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> A co-worker asked me how i would deal with a charging opponent in a self defense scenario, with the following assumptions:
> 
> 1. Person performing the charge is 6'-0', heavy set, around 280 lbs.
> 2. Person has little or no experience in martial arts.
> ...


Maybe I am reading this wrong, but the expandable baton is indeed a weapon. Used in self defense, you can hurt someone with it. In this situation it would appear that this person is a security person, because it would be against the law to have this weapon and use it otherwise. My point being, he may be trained with it. The baton does not have to be deployed  expanded to be used effectively. Once it is in your hand, it reinforces the punch, can be used with the hammer strike most effectively, and then extended out. I carry one on duty, once it is out of its holster it is ready to use. Scenario side step, of course. Now the baton is in my hand, and not yet open. Side stepping gives me an advantage, and I personally feel I can get 2-3 shots off with that weapon in my hand before I even open it. Now I can assume I am behind him, since I side stepped him. Now the baton is open and striking his leg from behind while I control with my free hand. We all know kicking to the knee will be most effective, but lets not forget the baton. At this time I can kick the back of his knee, pull with my controlling hand and place him on his knees, with me still behind him. From this position the baton can be used on his upper body in a very crippling way.


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## geezer (Feb 15, 2009)

:Stick&Blade::Warrior said:


> A co-worker asked me how i would deal with a charging opponent in a self defense scenario...
> 
> how would you deal with the situation?



Get a red cape, a "suit of lights" and a sword, Matador. Oh, sorry. I guess that's pretty much what Cory, Jks, Xue and everybody else already said, minus the colorful metaphors.


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## Stonecold (Feb 15, 2009)

Just because someone is not trained in martial arts it doesnt mean they can't fight. there are a lot of non trained fighters out in the world, they learn how to fight by fighting. No ref's or teachers to cool things down when it gets to ruff.   You take your lumps get up and fight again. these kind of fighters are unpredictable and will take pain and keep coming. The baton is your best chance, break an leg take there mobilaty, break the ribs take there wind, break a coller bone take there strenght.


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## Thems Fighting Words (Mar 12, 2009)

5 feet away? That gives me at least enough time to shoot out two chi balls to slow him down before I use a super, jumping upper cut to knock him off his ****. 

Seriously though. I agree with the side step. Kicking the knee is going to be difficult so instead get contact with his shoulder so you can improve your chances of knowing his next move. Draw the baton and beat him to a pulp. Mwa, ha, ha.... Oops, I meant, draw the baton and use it to subdue him in the most peaceful manner possible (cus big people have feelings and legal right too).


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## Omar B (Mar 12, 2009)

It's all about Sabaki.  Move forward and laterally, and you can do anything from that point.


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