# Have you ever tried Shaolin bone conditioning?



## amateur (Jan 4, 2019)

Even though MMA is arguably a newer and more evolved art, what you have to give to Shaolins
is they have some really badass exercises for bones and even for some supposedly soft spots.
Western martial arts do not seem to care at all about strengthening a warrior's defenses in any
way other than just teaching them how to avoid being hit; no exercises that increase your durability 
in case you do get hit (and, let's face it, if you get into a fight, you will get hit eventually, no matter
how skillfully you dodge or parry).
Yes, I know, from the info I have absorbed, that those exercises should not be done without the
supervision of a qualified master. But, since the chances I'll ever come across a qualified Shaolin
master are only slightly greater than the chances Ariana Grande will knock my door and beg me
to marry her, I was like 'whatever, life is pointless unless do what fulfills you etc'
So, I decided to take a chance. I watched some videos on the matter and tried it myself, carefully. 
-I tapped my shins with a bottle.
-I kicked a stone wall with the bridge of my foot and with my toes.
-I trained my hands using a tree in a way I saw in a video.
-I tried to condition some certain soft spots whose names I cannot mention for obvious reasons.
Okay, about that last part, I really had no idea how to do it, since there was no info other than some
videos with shaolins merely displaying their endurance when hit there. So I just took a chance on
my own responsibility and started with light punches. In the end, it was not as bad as it sounds,
I just needed to remain on my knees for a few seconds afterward until I could comfortably stand
up again.
What I made of my experience is that, if you listen to your body and don't increase the hit force
past the point you feel a slight discomfort, if you wait for 2-3 days till the red marks on the spots
you conditioned go away before trying again, there will be no problem.
The conditioning exercises were satisfying and I have considered including them in my workout
routine.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 4, 2019)

I had the opportunity to learn some of the conditioning stuff, but others on here know more about it so I'll leave them to comment. Regarding conditioning the squishy bits of yourself, I have one piece of advice: dont. 

That's not an area you can really condition all that well, and most of the stuff about people getting hit there is more performance tricks than anything. Even if there are some people who have figured it out, it takes one little accident to make them not functional anymore, and you kinda want them to stay in working order.


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## Martial D (Jan 5, 2019)

amateur said:


> Even though MMA is arguably a newer and more evolved art, what you have to give to Shaolins
> is they have some really badass exercises for bones and even for some supposedly soft spots.
> Western martial arts do not seem to care at all about strengthening a warrior's defenses in any
> way other than just teaching them how to avoid being hit; no exercises that increase your durability
> ...


Firstly, have you trained much MMA? I tell you what, slamming shin into shin is no picnic at first. Neither is shin on ribs, fists on body, etc etc every night(or at least as often as one attends)

Shao Lin guys don't hit each other, so they have different methods, surely.

Also, quit hitting yourself in the balls. It isn't going to help, unless you're one of those guys that's likes a little pain with your tea.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 5, 2019)

Most martial arts - if they have any real contact - have body conditioning. It's not always a discrete exercise, but people who spar with moderate (or harder) intensity definitely are better equipped to deal with getting hit. People who take falls on a regular basis are somewhat equipped to take a hit, and are certainly conditioned from less-focused impact (so a flying tackle, for instance). And, as Martial D pointed out, there's the clashing that happens regularly. In my primary training, we nearly always started classes with a round of block-and-strike, which some thought was practicing strikes, but I think it's more a conditioning exercise - oddly, more for the guy getting blocked. People who practice painful locks and submissions get better at dealing with pain.

Martial arts are full of body conditioning.

And, as others have said, don't try to condition the squishy bits. Muscle can be conditioned (Muay Thai fighters are an excellent example of this), but squishy bits cannot.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 5, 2019)

I do not try to condition bone, but that's a personal choice. I've seen what people who've done shin conditioning can do, but I'm just not interested myself. I would suggest getting competent instruction if you're going to do it. It can be dangerous.


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## Christopher Adamchek (Jan 5, 2019)

As other have said many arts have conditioning methods
some good tips for conditioning:

 you should start by hitting a heavy bag ALOT!
remember bone conditioning involves high impact microfractures that recalcify over time and increase bone density so it takes a long time and you dont want to hit anything too hard when starting 
occasionally striking hard surfaces during your bag conditioning will help condition nerves and capilary beds to the impacts so you eventually feel less pain and have less bruising
make sure you eat right so you body has the building blocks to repair itself (calcium and vitamin D are important)
utilize some weight conditioning to improve the muscle strength around the bones 
spar ALOT, it will round out areas you forget to work by yourself 
after many years utilize more hard surface striking


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## jobo (Jan 5, 2019)

amateur said:


> Even though MMA is arguably a newer and more evolved art, what you have to give to Shaolins
> is they have some really badass exercises for bones and even for some supposedly soft spots.
> Western martial arts do not seem to care at all about strengthening a warrior's defenses in any
> way other than just teaching them how to avoid being hit; no exercises that increase your durability
> ...


I'm not sure the monks were well up in science or had day jobs to go to?

you can most certainly increase you pain tolerance by experiancing pain, any contack sport in fact any sport where you regularly fall over like ice skating or mountain biking or being very drunk, will have that effect, you can strength en bone by percussive exercises , jumping up and down hitting a heavy bag, though your talibg years to make any meaningful difference to how likely it is to break.

punching a wall  or a tree is a rather bad idea, you can damage your hands punching a heavy bag and at the least your going to end up with arthritis in latter life, getting hit in the stomach does not strength your abs, hitting yourself in the cookies, may lessen your pain response, but won't stop them being damaged if your are kicked there. hitting them hard enough to actually damage then is just plain stupid


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## pdg (Jan 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> hitting yourself in the cookies, may lessen your pain response, but won't stop them being damaged if your are kicked there. hitting them hard enough to actually damage then is just plain stupid



There's a somewhat Darwinian beauty to that practice though.

Doing it enough (or hard enough) to cause damage and loss of function removes the propensity for self harm from the gene pool.


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## jobo (Jan 5, 2019)

pdg said:


> There's a somewhat Darwinian beauty to that practice though.
> 
> Doing it enough (or hard enough) to cause damage and loss of function removes the propensity for self harm from the gene pool.


I'm willing to bet the monks weren't overly concerned about their reproductive functions,


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jan 5, 2019)

jobo said:


> I'm not sure the monks were well up in science or had day jobs to go to?
> 
> you can most certainly increase you pain tolerance by experiancing pain, any contack sport in fact any sport where you regularly fall over like ice skating or mountain biking or being very drunk, will have that effect, you can strength en bone by percussive exercises , jumping up and down hitting a heavy bag, though your talibg years to make any meaningful difference to how likely it is to break.
> 
> punching a wall  or a tree is a rather bad idea, you can damage your hands punching a heavy bag and at the least your going to end up with arthritis in latter life, getting hit in the stomach does not strength your abs, hitting yourself in the cookies, may lessen your pain response, but won't stop them being damaged if your are kicked there. hitting them hard enough to actually damage then is just plain stupid


I'm loving the image of drinking as being a contact sport.


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## frank raud (Jan 5, 2019)

TIL that all those years of having medicine balls slammed into me was not as a conditioning exercise, but because my teacher was a sadistic bastard.


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## Hanzou (Jan 5, 2019)

Unless your goal is to be some sort of circus freak, I would avoid that pseudoscience nonsense like the plague.


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## wanderingstudent (Jan 5, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Most martial arts - if they have any real contact - have body conditioning. It's not always a discrete exercise, but people who spar with moderate (or harder) intensity definitely are better equipped to deal with getting hit. People who take falls on a regular basis are somewhat equipped to take a hit, and are certainly conditioned from less-focused impact (so a flying tackle, for instance). And, as Martial D pointed out, there's the clashing that happens regularly. In my primary training, we nearly always started classes with a round of block-and-strike, which some thought was practicing strikes, but I think it's more a conditioning exercise - oddly, more for the guy getting blocked. People who practice painful locks and submissions get better at dealing with pain.
> 
> Martial arts are full of body conditioning.
> 
> And, as others have said, don't try to condition the squishy bits. Muscle can be conditioned (Muay Thai fighters are an excellent example of this), but squishy bits cannot.


 
Yeah, you'd think that.  I was shocked when Anderson Silva broke his leg kicking his opponent in UFC168.  I assumed from his years of training/conditioning, it wouldn't have happened.


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## pdg (Jan 5, 2019)

I am soooo slow today.

Is it too late to try some innuendo based on groin shots and "bone" conditioning?


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 5, 2019)

pdg said:


> I am soooo slow today.
> 
> Is it too late to try some innuendo based on groin shots and "bone" conditioning?



Yes.


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## pdg (Jan 5, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> Yes.



Dammit.

I'll try to be quicker next time.


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## Dirty Dog (Jan 5, 2019)

pdg said:


> I'll try to be quicker next time.



No innuendo there, either.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 5, 2019)

wanderingstudent said:


> Yeah, you'd think that.  I was shocked when Anderson Silva broke his leg kicking his opponent in UFC168.  I assumed from his years of training/conditioning, it wouldn't have happened.


Nothing will completely prevent breaking a bone.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 5, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> Yes.


It's never too late for innuendo, DD.


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## amateur (Jan 5, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Muscle can be conditioned (Muay Thai fighters are an excellent example of this), but squishy bits cannot.



This video explains how it can happen. Watch 3.18-3.55 part...









jobo said:


> punching a wall  or a tree is a rather bad idea, you can damage your hands punching a heavy bag and at the least your going to end up with arthritis in latter life



Brainlessly punching a hard surface is stupid indeed. But there is a method to utilize a tree for hand conditioning. This video explains it...


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## Headhunter (Jan 6, 2019)

Screw that I want to actually be able to use my limbs when I'm in my 80s


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## jobo (Jan 6, 2019)

amateur said:


> This video explains how it can happen. Watch 3.18-3.55 part...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



brainlessly punching trees is stupid, but brainlessly allowing somonee to kick you in the nuts isn't ?

 breaking bones constantly will cause excessive calcium build up, and that adnormality is what sane people will try and avoid by not breaking bones constantly

, as for the tree scrapping and slapping, yea go on if you fancy it, wing chuner people are big on hitting pieces of wood, the rest of the ma world gets by with out it,

 though you could get much the same effect by getting a spade and digging someone's garden over and get 10$ for your time
.all through the tree hugger vid, I kept thinking, he would be much better of conditioning his abs


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## amateur (Jan 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> 1. Brainlessly punching trees is stupid, but brainlessly allowing somone to kick you in the nuts isn't ?
> 
> 2. Breaking bones constantly will cause excessive calcium build up, and that adnormality is what sane people will try and avoid by not breaking bones constantly
> 
> 3. Though you could get much the same effect by getting a spade and digging someone's garden over and get 10$ for your time.



1. Light punches for starters and, if this video is right, there will come a day I'll be able to allow someone to kick me full force in the nuts. I'm aware of the risks regarding my reproductive functions, which is why I'm not sure yet whether I'll continue to do this exercise. I guess, in the end, it depends on whether I value my desire to become more powerful over my sexual desires. But maybe I do really!

2. Did I say anything about breaking? 

3. Interesting. I'll see if I have a chance to do it.


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## jobo (Jan 6, 2019)

amateur said:


> 1. Light punches for starters and, if this video is right, there will come a day I'll be able to allow someone to kick me full force in the nuts. I'm aware of the risks regarding my reproductive functions, which is why I'm not sure yet whether I'll continue to do this exercise. I guess, in the end, it depends on whether I value my desire to become more powerful over my sexual desires. But maybe I do really!
> 
> 2. Did I say anything about breaking?
> 
> 3. Interesting. I'll see if I have a chance to do it.


no,but I that vid you quoted did , clearly you either didn't listen or under stand


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## amateur (Jan 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> no,but I that vid you quoted did , clearly you either didn't listen or under stand



Oh, you're talking about microfractures. I thought that, by breaking, you meant something more serious.


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## jobo (Jan 6, 2019)

your either a wind up or completely off your rocker, let me know if you want someone to kick you in the nuts


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## Buka (Jan 6, 2019)

Martial D said:


> Also, quit hitting yourself in the balls..



I'm going to have to go the other way on this. I think he should hit himself in the balls one thousand times for each of us.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jan 6, 2019)

Honestly i have no idea as i don't think there has been a medical study done of this, but a GP hinted at bone conditioning for persons with weak bones when i asked about it. 

Also just remove your testicles, cant get hit in them if you dont have them. *taps head*


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## jobo (Jan 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> Honestly i have no idea as i don't think there has been a medical study done of this, but a GP hinted at bone conditioning for persons with weak bones when i asked about it.
> 
> Also just remove your testicles, cant get hit in them if you dont have them. *taps head*


there's been tons of medical studies done on it, and any percusive exercise , even walking strengths the bon e, from the inside or more exactly a lack of exercise weakens them,  that's different from breaking the bone with micro fractures , which causes calcium build up on the outside of the bone, is it stronger, maybe, but it's deformed and knarley and if it happens to be your knuggles, they won't work any more its conning very close to the definition of self harm


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## wanderingstudent (Jan 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> Honestly i have no idea as i don't think there has been a medical study done of this, but a GP hinted at bone conditioning for persons with weak bones when i asked about it.
> 
> Also just remove your testicles, cant get hit in them if you dont have them. *taps head*




Actually, some folks practice specific ChiKung to lift the testicles, into the hip cavity.  From what I understand there are 36 postures and it takes 8-10 years.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 6, 2019)

amateur said:


> 1. Light punches for starters and, if this video is right, there will come a day I'll be able to allow someone to kick me full force in the nuts. I'm aware of the risks regarding my reproductive functions, which is why I'm not sure yet whether I'll continue to do this exercise. I guess, in the end, it depends on whether I value my desire to become more powerful over my sexual desires. But maybe I do really!
> 
> 2. Did I say anything about breaking?
> 
> 3. Interesting. I'll see if I have a chance to do it.


#2: Micro-fractures (and the process of healing them) is what bone conditioning is.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> there's been tons of medical studies done on it, and any percusive exercise , even walking strengths the bon e, from the inside or more exactly a lack of exercise weakens them,  that's different from breaking the bone with micro fractures , which causes calcium build up on the outside of the bone, is it stronger, maybe, but it's deformed and knarley and if it happens to be your knuggles, they won't work any more its conning very close to the definition of self harm


I think I recall reading that weight-bearing has some effect on bone density, too, to a lesser degree.


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## amateur (Jan 6, 2019)

Rat said:


> Also just remove your testicles, cant get hit in them if you dont have them. *taps head*



That would be the easy way. It wouldn't fulfill me anywhere near as much as the knowledge that I have turned every part of my body into a fortress.


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## amateur (Jan 6, 2019)

jobo said:


> there's been tons of medical studies done on it, and any percusive exercise , even walking strengths the bon e, from the inside or more exactly a lack of exercise weakens them,  that's different from breaking the bone with micro fractures , which causes calcium build up on the outside of the bone, is it stronger, maybe, but it's deformed and knarley and if it happens to be your knuggles, they won't work any more its conning very close to the definition of self harm



Yeah, I've seen the knuckles of old masters who have been conditioning them for years. They're definitely malformed. Not so pleasant to the eye but still functional.


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## pdg (Jan 6, 2019)

amateur said:


> Yeah, I've seen the knuckles of old masters who have been conditioning them for years. They're definitely malformed. Not so pleasant to the eye but still functional.



That depends on your definition of 'functional' and also what degree of functionality you deem acceptable.


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2019)

amateur said:


> Western martial arts do not seem to care at all about strengthening a warrior's defenses in any
> way other than just teaching them how to avoid being hit; no exercises that increase your durability
> in case you do get hit (and, let's face it, if you get into a fight, you will get hit eventually, no matter
> how skillfully you dodge or parry).


Not even close to being true.
http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/breakyourhand/breakyourhand.html

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I do not try to condition bone, but that's a personal choice. I've seen what people who've done shin conditioning can do, but I'm just not interested myself. I would suggest getting competent instruction if you're going to do it. It can be dangerous.


NASA put a crap-ton of research into this.  They found some very interesting stuff.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## pdg (Jan 7, 2019)

lklawson said:


> Not even close to being true.
> http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/breakyourhand/breakyourhand.html
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



I like that article, but something tells me nothing will dissuade the palm strike brigade...


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## lklawson (Jan 7, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I think I recall reading that weight-bearing has some effect on bone density, too, to a lesser degree.


It's all about managed stressors to the physique.  This includes not just the bone but also connective tissue.   As I mentioned, NASA has done a lot of research on this, all of it freely available.  There's also been a lot of research on the subject due to geriatric medicine.  In both cases the point has been how to mitigate bone density loss, mitigate connective tissue weakening, how to increase bone density, how to increase connective tissue strength, and related issues.

The research is more or less freely available and there are a number of not-so-startling conclusions as well as some interesting mitigation and promotion strategies.  The easiest ones are simple.  Just excercise reasonably.  The muscle contractions, minor "impacts" (such as stepping during "power walking"), and related stressors signal the body to increase bone density.  There's a lot more to it, including having usable calcium to put into the bones, diet, and even vitamins and drugs.  But we don't have to rely on guesswork or 1,000 year old misunderstandings of human bio-mechanical systems.  Modern research has given us a much better understanding.  Now we understand why some things our ancestors didn't work, what they did that worked, and often how to make them work "better."  And our understanding is constantly improving.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## amateur (Jan 7, 2019)

lklawson said:


> Not even close to being true.
> http://cbd.atspace.com/articles/breakyourhand/breakyourhand.html
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



Neat. How about I hang a rag stuffed backbag from somewhere and punch it?


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## lklawson (Jan 8, 2019)

amateur said:


> Neat. How about I hang a rag stuffed backbag from somewhere and punch it?


I don't see why that wouldn't be acceptable.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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