# Knee Braces



## Ping898 (Apr 25, 2004)

Hey,

I was wondering if anyone out there had any knee issues and needed a knee brace while training?  
I did some damage to my knee when I was fencing a few years ago, had surgery to fix it, but it's never been the same since.  :uhyeah: 
I currently use one of those neoprene braces that has some extra patella support, but I find even with it, I can't do my stances as deep or as long as I want.  Plus my kicks are somewhat lack luster because I don't have as stong of a support and pivot leg as I used too.  I find that if I train as hard as I like to, I end up limping off the mat after just one class (which isn't even an hour long).
I been to the ortho surgeon and had MRI's since the surgery, nothing shows up as being wrong, cept a little extra water in the knee which doc says is ok.  Basically, just got to suck up the pain and ice the knee and take anti-inflammatories as need.  Which is fine, but I am wondering if there is a better brace out there that is more stable and has more support while still allowing for the flexibility I need that I could be using.  Doc has never been too much help oon what to use, other than telling me to use a neoprene one.  I refuse to let my knee stop me from training, which is just basic AK, but at the same time, I don't like pain and prefer to avoid it or minimize it if possible.  
Anyone's input that has with any experience in this or that has ideas about it would be most appreciated.

Peace.


----------



## OULobo (Apr 26, 2004)

I got a an ACL rip from a catching my training shoes on the ground while I going over someone on a hip toss. I had a surgical reconstruction (patellar) and 9 mo. of rehab. I started training "soft" skills while I was still in PT and began training fully again the day the Doc gave me the OK. Now I train with a full brace almost all the time. The only time I don't wear my brace in MA training is during some of the Silat I do, and only with people that I trust my life to, so trusting them with my knee seems less of a step. There is way to much opportunity for disaster in training for me not to wear a brace. The only time I wear my brace is in MA training or while hiking. I don't wear it jogging, biking, calistenics, during yoga, ect. I have found that my brace, being a rigid brace, gives great protection, but can be a pain for the other students. The outlook of both my instructor and I is that this is something they may find in life and so is something they should learn to adapt around. It's really nice to have during grappling, and puts a dead stop to anyone wanting to deliver a big Thai roundhouse. 

My suggestions are that you remember that it is your responsibility to protect your body, knees included, and so your partners are responsible for their own. Wear your brace, let others know your situation and take extra precautions. What kind of surgury/damage did you have? If it was damage to the miniscus then you have to just try to grin and bear it. That kind of damage is really unrepairable and a precursor to pain and arthritus. The best suggestions I can give come in a few words, low impact non MA exercise, glucosomine-condroiten (sp) and Advil. If you build up the knee-supporting muscles in the leg, it stabilizes the knee and supports odd and standard stresses and strains better. This both lessens your chance of failure (injury) and your chance of damage from repetative and rough usage.


----------



## Ping898 (Apr 26, 2004)

I did do the whole miniscus tear and repair deal.  And you are right, I do know I will end up with arthitis sooner than I originally might have. 
My instructors know I have the brace, so are kind enough not to hit the back of my leg when my stances would normally not be low enough and I am careful in techniques and Kumite.  I just moved so started training at a new school and slightly different style, so at the moment am just training in the White-Orange class which everyone there barely touches you no matter what you are working on anyways, though next week I am going to be working in the Purple-Green class to, so expect that will be more realistic and hopefully better contact in both techniques and Kumite so expect my knee will begin to take more of a beating there.

At the moment I wear my brace during most physical activities, mostly martial arts, but also raquetball and volleyball.  I have been trying to find some good exercises to build up the surrounding area.  I've done the ones I was originally doing in rehab mostly squats or different variations and leg extensions,  but I've tried to find others that might work better, because these seemed to have hit a point where they aren't helping the area anymore.  Do you have any suggestions on some good ones that your found might help build up the surrounding muscles?  what is glucosomine-condroiten ?  That's a new one to me.  I do the whole Aleve thing and double it up if needed, doc said was ok cause Aleve was just nonprescription strength of perscription I had after the surgery.  thanks.


----------



## OULobo (Apr 26, 2004)

Ping898 said:
			
		

> At the moment I wear my brace during most physical activities, mostly martial arts, but also raquetball and volleyball.  I have been trying to find some good exercises to build up the surrounding area.  I've done the ones I was originally doing in rehab mostly squats or different variations and leg extensions,  but I've tried to find others that might work better, because these seemed to have hit a point where they aren't helping the area anymore.  Do you have any suggestions on some good ones that your found might help build up the surrounding muscles?  what is glucosomine-condroiten ?  That's a new one to me.  I do the whole Aleve thing and double it up if needed, doc said was ok cause Aleve was just nonprescription strength of perscription I had after the surgery.  thanks.



Glucosomine-Condroiten is a pill suppliment that helps the joints. It has been found to basically help in a variety of ways including lubrication, cartilage consistancy and even regrowth. Most of the people I know who have any joint problems take it and report benefits. 

For knee stabilizing muscle exercises I would recomend an appointment with a PT for the best consideration, but in the meantime 

-lateral leg raises (lying on your side and raising you leg as if you were finishing a side kick) 
-interior leg raises (lying on your side, placing you upper leg bent and behind your lower leg and raising your lower leg until it crosses your centerline)
-any exercise that isolates the VMO (leg extentions to full extention and hold for a while)
-roman chairs (wall sitting with knees at 90 degrees)
-one legged balancing (good for balance and for rapid fire stabilizing muscles in the ankle and knee). 

Hopefully that's a start.


----------



## TigerWoman (May 9, 2004)

I've had knee damage while in TKD. I've had wear and tear from running-off and on for 20 years but before TKD I didn't have pain.  I did a tornado round kick and dislocated my knee one night. I slid it back in (like I did when I was a teen) and then later a doc told me I had a torn meniscus on the side.  I had a lot of pain and swelling but with advil, glucosamine sulfate, chondroitin and MSM (controls swelling) it was livable pain in TKD.  Then I got into a new level and all of a sudden my knee started buckling.  I had weakened the side ligaments and the back hamstring from too much repetition. My master likes 6000 front kicks in an hr.  That was bad for my hamstring, then my loose side ligaments would make my knee go side to side and get jammed.

So rehab gave me VMO exercises with a 4-5 lb. weight- sitting on the floor and bracing your back, lifting to a 30° angle with your leg turned out. It strengthened it after a month. I did the roman chair too and a rubber band thing around the lower leg and pulling my leg up to the back to a 45° angle.
These all made my knee more stable so after a month of laying off, I could go back.  I then started walking every day with my dog for an hour, that was when I noticed the most improvement with stability.  I have to watch side to side jumping movements (like down a row of bags) or alot of front kicks which make my hamstrings sore and knee unstable.

I wear a velcro/neoprene reinforced side brace -its a wrap-around with cut out of the back and front which makes it breathable and workable.  There is another rubber like thing that velcros in between for my patella.  I do alot of form- yes deep stances - and jumping with it and its comfortable, I forget its on and it gives me support.
The tag label on it is Hely & Weber, got it from my orthopedic doc.

BTW the doc said my meniscus was healed - it must have been the glucosamine--it does help. I wouldn't have been able to do TKD for 6 more years.  Just don't take it with Advil- there's something conflicting with the two and you don't get the benefit of the glucosamine. So I take the gluco.MSM 1st in the morning with vitamins, etc. Advil before class to stop paint and stop swelling (which if happens creates more debris and more inflammation and more pain) then later in the evening another dose of Glucosaming/MSM & vitamins.  I'm 54 and still going! Best of luck!


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (May 11, 2004)

Glucosamine can assist with the repair of articular tissues in the body, but there are dose-specific issues you should keep in mind while buying it.

The only randomized controlled trial on dosing found that a minimum of 1200 mg. per day (best tolerated in 2 600 mg. doses) was required to actually see predictable and reproducible cartilage repair in joints.

Comes in 2 forms: Glucosamine Sulfate and Glucosamine Hydrochloride.  The G-HCL version may contribute to elevated salt levels for peoepl with hypertensive concerns. Also, the Sulfate version is suspected of working better because of the ability of the compound to be a sufur donor for cartilage repair...have even been a few researchers questioning if it's the glucosamine that's working, or the donated sulfur group.

It's important after an injury of this sort to identify what functional limitations you may face, possibly for the rest of your life.  You may simply need to adapt to a modified rendition of the art you practice.  Still, train hard, and make up for any strategic deficiencies by getting the rest of your body above the level of excellence 

I can't use my right knee well, so I keep it behind me when I spar, train really hard with my left leg, and make sure I have the quickest hands in the house.

Good luck.  And don't trust a chiropractor if they insist they can cure you or prevent arthritis by manipulating your knee. It's an industry-wide urban legend.

Regards,

Dr. Dave...Chiropractor.


----------



## RCastillo (May 11, 2004)

Ping898 said:
			
		

> Hey,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone out there had any knee issues and needed a knee brace while training?
> I did some damage to my knee when I was fencing a few years ago, had surgery to fix it, but it's never been the same since.  :uhyeah:
> ...



Sounds like your problem may be with the patella tendons. I used a knee brace myself, but it doesn't give me the stabilty I need. I'm switching over to ones that focus on the patella for better support. Try going to their site   www.cho-pat.com. :asian:


----------



## TigerWoman (May 11, 2004)

I've tried several braces including two different Cho-Pat ones, the cut out one and the under the patella.  They were better than nothing but not as good as the one I have now.


----------



## RCastillo (May 11, 2004)

TigerWoman said:
			
		

> I've tried several braces including two different Cho-Pat ones, the cut out one and the under the patella.  They were better than nothing but not as good as the one I have now.



What are you using? I may need it myself if these don't work out.

Thanks :asian:


----------



## TigerWoman (May 11, 2004)

RCastillo said:
			
		

> What are you using? I may need it myself if these don't work out.
> 
> Hely & Weber is on the tag - worn it so long that some other writing is gone
> I got it from my ortho doc.  He said the next one up is a hard brace - yuck
> the one with the metal.  But this one works good.  Described in previous post.


----------



## ParrotheadTPA (Jul 5, 2004)

I didn't wear one to start, but I have a long standing messed up knee.  When my orthopedic surgeon found out I was doing TKD, he basically said, I'm not going to tell you to stop because I want you to stay physically active, but I want you to wear a brace to protect the knee.  The gave me a Donjoy ACL brace.  I have found that my balance is a little better and the form on my side kicks and round kicks is a little better.


----------

