# Tcm?



## Bob Hubbard (Aug 23, 2002)

What is it?  What are the theories behind it, and how did it develop?  Most Americans seem to think that "You go see Dr. Woo and he sticks some needles in your butt and suddenly youve stopped smoking or your arthritis is gone".  

What is it really, and what is it not?  Seeing that we've got a few TCM practitioners and at least 1 certified TCMer (sorry, cant recall the correct title here), I'd like to open the floor for a dialog on this.

For example, in a different thread Mr. Rousselot said:



> Years ago I took one hell of a shot to the kidneys and later had urine the color of coca cola, this condition came and went for about 6 months and after countless tests my regular physician had no idea what the cause was.
> He suggested an exploratory..........
> I went to an acupuncturist that looked me over did some tertiary tests and said "No problem........takes about 2 maybe 3 visits".
> 
> ...



Where did western medicine fail, and why was the acupuncturist right?  What is the "Ball Game"?  As someone who's familys got a variety of 'non-treatable' (see lots of expensive and useless tests) issues, I'm interested in being able to suggest an alternative to their HMO.

Other questions - How do you choose a doctor who practices TCM, and what are the differences between them?

Arigato
:asian:


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## arnisador (Aug 25, 2002)

I saw an interesting book at B&N yesterday:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834804433/

The author is a Hapkidoist. It has _very_ detailed acupuncture/acupressure charts inside. Regrettably the "Look Inside" feature doesn't show the good stuff.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *What is it?  What are the theories behind it, and how did it develop?  Most Americans seem to think that "You go see Dr. Woo and he sticks some needles in your butt and suddenly youve stopped smoking or your arthritis is gone".
> 
> ...



Ohayo Gozaimasu Kaith-San,

I am confused by the anacronym TCM. I am a TCM expert in my profession. That is to say I am an expert in Transmission Control Modules, or those little computers in your cars that run your transmissions.

So, can someone start with what does TCM stand for?

Doumo Arigato Gozaimashita

Rich

:asian:


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## Yari (Aug 26, 2002)

I've tried acupunture, and it didn't work, and the doctor is a certified doctor from China. I also know of people she has helped. But she said she could help me, but it didn't.

So I think more in the terms of that somethings work for somepeople and someotherthings for other people. Just like MA.
So what it really boils down to is : is your problem so great you would treat yourself with something that hasn't been tested and verified. And I'm not talking about that 'alot of people say it's great, and my grandmother got better ' and so on. Real test and verification. Because you don't hear about the ones that didn't work; they just move on until they find something that does work (or time worked for them).

I'm not trying to put down alternative treatment, but a cautious mind is important.

Concerning TCM, I don't know what it is. But since the talk touched acupuncture I had to chime in.

/Yari


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 26, 2002)

TCM - Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Found these resources..looks pretty detailed, but I havent had a chance to go back and dig thru it:
http://www.tcmstudent.com
http://www.goacupuncture.com
http://www.acuxo.com/


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *
> Where did western medicine fail, and why was the acupuncturist right? *



In my particular case Western Medicine failed in finding the actual cause of the illness.
They were focusing on the symptoms instead of the source of the illness.
My western Dr. thought it must have been some sort of infection in my urinary tract since that is where the blood was. I was on anti-biotic for a long time but to no use. 
The Chinese Dr. I went to came from a family that had done acupuncture for 13 generations and really knew his stuff. The cause of my illness was not solely due to a kidney injury. A year before I had an Ice Hockey incident where a stick had perforated my stomach and I almost bled to death. That injury caused an unbalance in my system which had made my kidneys weak so a shot to the kidneys triggered the illness that I had.
Therefore treating the stomach point made sense. The stomach point was strengthened taking the strain off my kidneys so they could function normally again.
Western Med. is not bad, in fact it is much better for many illnesses. TCM is better for those illnesses than have the luxury of time and are not life threatening.






> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *What is the "Ball Game"? *



TCM and Kyusho jutsu are different ball games.
For example a sniper doesn't need to be a brain or heart surgeon to shoot someone................they just need to know where some vital organs are and how to exploit them. 




> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> * As someone who's familys got a variety of 'non-treatable' (see lots of expensive and useless tests) issues, I'm interested in being able to suggest an alternative to their HMO.*



I don't envy the medical bills for useless tests. I paid a lot for the tests that did absolutely nothing. 
Alternative medicine is tricky at best since some of it works and much of it doesn't. 
Contrary to what I have heard some folks say about alternative medicine not having side effects and being safe I would say not.
Alternative Med. can be just as dangerous and in some cases more so since it is loosely regulated.
I have seen folks "popping herbs" and say "it's ok it's natural, it won't have any side effects". Too bad their are some plants that can kill you.




> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Other questions - How do you choose a doctor who practices TCM, and what are the differences between them? *




That is another tough issue.
There are some good qualified people practicing TCM in the US, however since it is not always regulated and every state has different laws on who can and can't practice TCM it can be very difficult to find someone that is good.


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *
> http://www.tcmstudent.com*



I took a quick look at this link at from what little I saw it looked very good.







> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *http://www.goacupuncture.com*



This site looked pretty "commercial" and sold the thing I can't stand the most...............the "accupoint locator". It's a hands on art, if you can't find it with your hands you should be doing some other profession. When you use your hands you not only are finding the point but also testing for the patients sensitivity. 




> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *http://www.acuxo.com/ *



Couldn't get any thing other than the first page to load on this one.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 26, 2002)

I admit I dont do  what is being called TCM   but it was always my understanding that it included herbal treatment as well as massage, and dietary advise.


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 27, 2002)

In China there are several types of TCM practitioners.

1) Acupuncturists
2) Herbalists
3) Massage Therapists (Chinese Style)
4) Chigung  Therapists 
5)A combination of 2 or more of the above.

Diet is a very important part of Herb therapy. Quite often Herbalists in China will tell their patients to avoid eating fruits during treatment as it will offset the healing properties of the herbs.
I was told by several different Acupuncturists not to eat dairy products because my body is intolerant to them.


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## RyuShiKan (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Yari _
> 
> *I've tried acupunture, and it didn't work, and the doctor is a certified doctor from China. I also know of people she has helped. But she said she could help me, but it didn't.*



Being certified in China is not always a good thing, just like being a certified MD in the west doesn't guarantee you will be cured.
There is a kind of term used for untrained or unskilled TCM people in China..........they are called "Mongolian Doctors". 
TCM  usually takes a while to work. In some cases it works right away but it depends on the illness and the skill of the practitioner.




> _Originally posted by Yari _
> 
> *So I think more in the terms of that somethings work for somepeople and someotherthings for other people. Just like MA.
> So what it really boils down to is : is your problem so great you would treat yourself with something that hasn't been tested and verified.*



Actually TCM has been tested and verified for over 4,000 years. If historical memory serves western man was still fairly primitive 4,000 years ago.
I have tons of clinical research material from Beijing University that was composed by western MDs, so it has been "tested and verified".
The quality of TCM depends on the skill level of the person doing it.  
For example I was lucky enough to see a woman get her appendix taken out using acupuncture for anesthesia. 
The person doing it was light years ahead of me as for as skill level and there is no way I would even attempt to do the same thing.


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## Chris from CT (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *What is it?  What are the theories behind it, and how did it develop?  Most Americans seem to think that "You go see Dr. Woo and he sticks some needles in your butt and suddenly youve stopped smoking or your arthritis is gone".  *



As stated before, TCM stands for Traditional Chinese Medicine.  The term "TCM" is a catagory set by communist China to define what is and what is not taught in schools so everyone learns the same material.  This was good that everyone was able to get the same education, but bad to the fact that other styles, methods and modalities were shunned and may have been lost.  During the communist take over of China many acupuncturists that used other modalities of acupuncture either switched, attempted to leave the country or were prosecuted.

The standard textbook that the national exam on is _"Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion"_ by: Xin-nong Cheng
http://www.redwingbooks.com/products/books/ChiAcuMoxChe.cfm
This can help a person understand what does and does not fall under the label of TCM

What is it?  Probably the most basic way to put it would be...
When someone is ill or has an injury, that means there is some sort of inbalance.  What acupuncture and other modalities/methods of Eastern medicine do is to help bring the body back in balance, which helps in the healing process.  

It is much more than that, but what do ya want with only two sentences?  :rofl: 



> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Seeing that we've got a few TCM practitioners and at least 1 certified TCMer (sorry, cant recall the correct title here)*



I wish it was me!     Unfortunately, I still have two more years to go to graduate and take the national exam.



> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *Other questions - How do you choose a doctor who practices TCM, and what are the differences between them?*



In regulated states, you usually have 3 types of people legally using acupuncture to treat patients.

1) People who graduate from a school after 3 - 5 of years of training.

2) Western Medical Doctors who go for "basic training" at one of the above schools.  Their additional training in acupuncture is around 300 hours.  

3) Someone who has practiced for many years and is "grandfathered in" for their licence.

Any or all can be good.  It all depends on the practitioner.  How how a person would choose is up to the patient.

Take care :asian:


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## lhommedieu (Nov 6, 2002)

I posted a reply on the "eastern medicine" thread that may address some of the issues raised on this thread.

Best,

Steve Lamade


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