# TaeKuekKwon & SoRimJangKwon Hyungs



## llosik

I have added both Tae Kuek Kwon and So Rim Jang Kwon Hyungs to my books on Tang Soo Do Hyungs by Len Losik.

So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung was added to the "Tang Soo Do Book of Hyungs, Volume III", and Tae Kuek Kwon Hyung was added to "Tang Soo Do Complete Book of Hyungs". They will be available for sale at Amazon.com as soon as existing stock on hand is sold, this could be late fall, winter '03. 

When browsing at Amazon.com, use my last name or Tang Soo Do to search for books.


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## Zepp

I'm curious.  Do your books explore the origins of these hyung?


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## llosik

Hi Zepp,

The origins of these two hyungs will be exlpored in upcoming book(s) currently being written.

Many schools still use them today.


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## Zepp

Will your upcoming book also explore the origins of the TSD forms that were originally Okinawan?  I'd be particularly interested in it if it did.  :asian:


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## llosik

I have existing books I have published and are available at Amazon.com on Tang Soo Do that I give credit to both Okinawan and Japanese martial artists for the Korean Hyungs.

I also publish a table which has all the Tang Soo Do hyungs and the Okinawan and Japanese Kata names for the same ones. I have published this about 10 times in martial arts magazines and books. I call this the Hyung to Kata Translation Matrix. You should be able to find it in the description of my books on Amazon.com.


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## TSDMDK16485

what abouty the ship dan kuem hyung


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## Mr. Daly

Do you have copies of the SoRimJangKwon and TaeKuekKwon hyungs as done by GM Hwang Kee.  I have been searching for these, but have not found them, except as Wu Shu and Tai Chi Chuan forms.


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## rmclain

Mr. Daly said:


> Do you have copies of the SoRimJangKwon and TaeKuekKwon hyungs as done by GM Hwang Kee. I have been searching for these, but have not found them, except as Wu Shu and Tai Chi Chuan forms.


 
You won't find these except as a myth in MDK circles.  I've yet to find anyone that can physically demonstrate the MDK Jang Kwon form.

I believe that Hwang Kee tried to learn Jang Kwon Hyung by watching Yoon Byung-in (YMCA Kwon Bup Bu) at demonstrations between 1946-49, then teach it to his students.  Sort of like he did by reading Gichin Funakoshi's book on the Pinan forms then instructing them to MDK students.  Grandmaster Kim Ki-whang (working in a senior position to Hwang Kee at the Transportation Administration (RR)) mentioned that Hwang Kee was always interested and following Yoon Byung-in around to demonstrations to watch.  Probably, Hwang Kee just tried to memorize Jang Kwon by watching.  He probably later gave up, but already taught his perception of the form to a few people.  But, the copied version just "fizzled out" in the MDK and has evolved into some sort of legend.

R. McLain


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## McZ

Have you got a videos of this hyungs? or videos of Chil Sung 6-7 and Hwa Sun?


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## Chizikunbo

McZ said:


> Have you got a videos of this hyungs? or videos of Chil Sung 6-7 and Hwa Sun?



McZ....the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan offers DVD's (www.tsdmgk.com) that detail most if not all the chil sungs and yukrhos...as well as hwa sun...
You may find these in the federation materials as well...www.soobahkdo.com...the TSD SBD Vol. 2 has Yuk Rho 1-3 as well as a version of Hwa Sun...the reason I say version is because it is supposedly different that the one demonstrated by KJN Hwang Kee, as KJN H.C. Hwang introduced a different version of the form to the senior members (chil dan and up) of the USSBDMDKF...
good luck in your search,
--josh


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## Muwubu16858

on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.


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## JT_the_Ninja

Muwubu16858 said:


> But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all.



Reminds me of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, where Jade Fox could only learn so much from the Wudan manual because she could only "study the diagrams." Sorry if that sounds completely random.


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## Chizikunbo

Muwubu16858 said:


> on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.


Muwubu actually SRJK is discussed, but not really demonstrated except for a couple postures...
In all actuality the Chinese used in the text was quite odd, and descriptive. GM Charles Ferraro of the Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan actually had it translated at the UN...here it is 



> This is the translation I was able to get from Chapter 30, Grandmaster Hwang Kee's Original Printing of Soo Bahk Do Dae Kamp. I am reposting this because I have read so many post about the long lost form...it is not lost it is in the original printing. It does need to be translated properly in a manner that can be understood and duplicate physically. I have even read that others are teaching this hyung. It would be an easy thing to compare those versions with the translation that follows here. If they match then they are doing the form KJN Hwang Kee learned if not well the conclusion is obvious...Here goes...enjoy
> 
> (1) This military exercise is a same overflow as "Naianghi" form. but it's movements starts more from the middle than "Naianghi" form and moves twoard left and upward.
> 
> (2) The ready stance is in triangle position and relaxed.
> 
> (3) Facing front, raise elbows in horizontal position.
> 
> (4) This form starts with the extension of the right hand.
> 
> (5) the left hand hits the right hand at the point and then the hands cross each other move hands toward the right center.
> 
> (6) Make one step to the right, face front, make a same position as #3
> 
> (7) The body and eyes face the same direction. Turn left and lift the right leg to left side take 1 step and face front of form...both hands will be raised
> 
> ( Keep the left side same step to a horse stance with the left hands in fighting stance.
> 
> (9) The right foot will stay the same. The left foot will face left side. Turn toward the front. The body will face front.
> 
> (10) Facing left, the left foot will stay in place. Make right foot attack (type of kick not clear) and land in defensive stance.
> 
> (11) In the same stance, the left arm will extend toward the right side, the right fist will turn downward
> 
> (12) The right foot will steps to right side and bends at the knee (probably front stance). The front side of your body will face the front of form and your eyes will be looking to the left side. The left foot will be extended. The right hand will block upward. The left hand will block upward (probably reverse high block).
> 
> (13) The left foot will face left. The body and eyes will face towards the back of the form and repeat the motions in #8
> 
> (14) Same motions as #9.
> 
> (15) The left foot stays the same. The right foot comes together towards the left foot. Your head turns towards the back of the form and make a high punch.
> 
> (16) Lift left foot and raise body upward.
> 
> (17) The right foot will stay on floor and pivot and the left foot will face the right side with the head turned to the right. Same action as #7.
> 
> (18) Twist to a reverse front stance facing left side of form. Head turned to the right side and prepare for attack (defensive stance). Execute a left punch and backfist.
> 
> (19) The right foot will make a front kick to the front land in front stance
> 
> (20) Facing the right side the left foot will stay right side and the right foot will step once and make front kick.
> 
> (21) Same as #20 except reverse left and right.
> 
> (22) Same as #21 except reverse left and right.
> 
> (23) Turn toward left, the left foot will be make a fighting stance and execute a middle punch.
> 
> (24) The right fist will punch the left side
> 
> (25) Same as #24 except reverse left and right
> 
> (26) Same as #25 except reverse left and right. Open the left hand and push forward
> 
> (27) The left foot will lift to the right side. The right side will be centered and lift the left foot, and make a right hand high block and a simultaneous left arm low block.
> 
> (28) With both hands push forward. Then make a right hand low block. The head and body will face the left side of the form.
> 
> (29) The left foot will stay the same. the left hand will open and push forward
> 
> (30) The right foot will turn towards the back of the form and bend at the knee
> 
> (31) Step forward one step
> 
> (32) Kick with left foot. The right hand will be open and hold the left hand.
> 
> (33) The right foot will execute a front kick before the left foot touches the ground.
> 
> (34) Facing the back of the form, put the feet together. the arme will make a middle block (probably an inside to outside block).
> 
> (35) Turning hips to the left, the body will face the right side of the form. The left foot steps one step, both hands will be the same as #34.
> 
> (36) The right foot moves forward, the left hand will punch forward. the right hand will punch to the right side.
> 
> (37) The left foot will step forward
> 
> (38) the right foot will step forward, jump in the air and turn to the left side of the form. The face and body will continue to face the front. Stay in the horse stance. The left hand will face downward.
> 
> (39) The right foot stays the same. The left foot moves to the right bringing both feet together. The left hand makes a middle block and the right hand extends forward.
> 
> (40) Same as #7
> 
> (41) Same as #8
> 
> (42) Turn left, attack the middle...same as #20
> 
> (43) Same as #42, except reverse the left and right
> 
> (44) Same as #42, the opposite of #43
> 
> (45) Turn left, the head and body will face the right side of the form. The right foot will stay on the ground. The left foot will lift and the execute a right high block.
> 
> (46) At the time the left foot touches the ground. The body will be facing the rear of the form. The upper body will turn towards the back of the form and both hands will stretch forward.
> 
> (47) Same as #46, the right foot will step forward. the left foot will be facing the right side of the form. Execute a right punch.
> 
> (48) Before the left foot lands, the right foot will make a front kick
> 
> (49) Both feet land together, twist hips to the rear, head and body will front of the form. Make a left middle block and a simultaneous right punch. Repeat #s 46, 47, 48, and 49.
> 
> (50) Right foot moves forward, the body and head will face the left side of the form
> 
> (51) Step with the right foot, the body and head will face the rear of the form
> 
> (52) Raise the right foot and make a high block with the right hand while making a left hand low block
> 
> (53) Both hands will come together, keep the right foot raised and reverse the hands
> 
> (54) Bend the right knee and stomp with the left foot and repeat the moves from #s 52, 53, 54
> 
> (55) The right foot stays the same. The left foot will step forward one step to the right side of the form. The head and body will turn to the right side of the form.
> 
> (56) The left foot will make a front kick and the right hand will be chambered and ready for an attack.
> 
> (57) The same motion as #55 and #56 except reverse the left and the right
> 
> (58) The same motion as #57 except reverse the left and the right
> 
> (59) The left foot will face front, make a right low block to the front of the form
> 
> (60) Same as #11, except the body and head will be in different direction'
> 
> (61) Same motion as #12 except the direction
> 
> (62) Facing the front of the form, the body turns to the left side, the right foot will come together with the left foot.
> 
> (63) Bend the knees and extend both arms, the right fist will punch upward.
> 
> (64) Jump and turn to the left. The body and head turn to the rear of the form. Land in a horse stance
> 
> (65) The left hand makes a block to the front and the right fist makes a low block
> 
> (66) The left foot will come to the right foot, the body and head will be facing the rear of the form. the left fist makes a low block and the right fist will execute a punch.
> 
> (67) The left foot will face the right side and you will take one step. the left foot will be in a fighting stance. The body and head will face the right side of the form.
> 
> (68) Facing East, the right foot will move one step. Make a left then right punch.
> 
> (69) Same motion as #41.
> 
> (70) Same motion as #66 except the direction and the body and head will face the front
> 
> (71) Same motion as #70 except the left foot will raise to the right knee.
> 
> (72) Same motion as #7
> 
> (73) Same motion as #7
> 
> (74) Same motion as #9
> 
> (75) Same motion as #20
> 
> (76) Same motion as #21 Reverse of #75
> 
> (77) Same motion as #76, Reverse the direction
> 
> (78) Same motion as #77, Reverse the direction
> 
> (79) Same motion as #78, Reverse the direction
> 
> (80) The face and head will face the rear, same motion as #55.
> 
> (81) Turning towards the right side, same motion as #56
> 
> (82) As the left foot touches the ground land in a fighting stance with your head facing the left side of the form. Make a left punch and chamber the right fist.
> 
> (83) Same motion as #82. Except the reverse the left and the right.
> 
> (84) Same motion as #3
> 
> (85) Same motion as #2
> 
> ---THE END---



The Tae Keuk Kwon has more pictures as well as applications...I have them and it is interesting, but not shattering. 

take care,
--josh


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## rmclain

Muwubu16858 said:


> on the matter at hand, if you get the Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam written by Hwang Kee (the korean version, not the english volume one) it has So Rim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwon being performed. But understand that as for these forms, the descriptions are in chinese, and unless you understand the meanings behind the movements, there's really no point in trying them out at all. Also note that Tae Kuk Kwon (Tai Chi Chuan) is the only hyung out of the original 39 he lists in the Dae Gam and Volume One that he learned in China. As has been said many times, the other 38 were from Okinawan Karate styles that he picked up from books and colaborations with other kwan founders wh learned in Japan.


 
I think I have the pages from Hwang Kee's book describing So Rim Jang Kwon.   I don't know if this is the same book as you referenced.  But, it is supposed to be from Hwang Kee's book written in Korean.  I was told by a native Korean that the writing is "jibberish" and doesn't really make sense.  My Korean is not good enough to verify this.  But, I trust the opinion of the reader.

I'm not sure what the form is referencing with the word "Naianghi."  But, it could be a reference to the Okinawan form, "Naihanchi" which is also known as "Tekki," "Chulki," "Kima," and "Naebojin."

R. McLain


R. McLain


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## Muwubu16858

what book do you have of hwang kee's? the soo bahk do dae gam is his master text and the copy i have is from 1970. if you can show a pic of the cover, i can tell you the book


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## Muwubu16858

on another note, hangul itself can be jibberish to readers, since the spoken language uses a lot of the same sounds for many words, and hangul is phonetic. to understand better, one would need to read and understand hanja. but your friend is right that what it says is jibberish....you wouldhave had to learn the hyung from someone who learned it from GM Hwang, or whomever else knew that form at that time.
I have seen them done before, and their is a lot of actions that aren't picture but are described, and just like reading one's personal notebook in korean, who really knows what is meant except by the writer himself.


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## MBuzzy

rmclain said:


> I think I have the pages from Hwang Kee's book describing So Rim Jang Kwon. I don't know if this is the same book as you referenced. But, it is supposed to be from Hwang Kee's book written in Korean. I was told by a native Korean that the writing is "jibberish" and doesn't really make sense. My Korean is not good enough to verify this. But, I trust the opinion of the reader.


 


Muwubu16858 said:


> on another note, hangul itself can be jibberish to readers, since the spoken language uses a lot of the same sounds for many words, and hangul is phonetic. to understand better, one would need to read and understand hanja. but your friend is right that what it says is jibberish....you wouldhave had to learn the hyung from someone who learned it from GM Hwang, or whomever else knew that form at that time.
> I have seen them done before, and their is a lot of actions that aren't picture but are described, and just like reading one's personal notebook in korean, who really knows what is meant except by the writer himself.


 
Muwubu,

I believe that the Jibberish being referred to is the Hangul on the front of Mr. Losik's book.  I have read most of Hwang Kee's books in Hangul and I can assure it....It is Korean (some hanja, but mostly Hangul).

On the other hand, the front of Mr. Losik's book is complete jibberish.  He made an ATTEMPT to write the words Tang Soo Do in Hangul and failed miserably.  

I just returned to the US from a year in Korea and read Hangul very well.  I'm not the best translator without a Korean helper, but I can at least pronounce all the words.


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## rmclain

MBuzzy said:


> Muwubu,
> 
> I believe that the Jibberish being referred to is the Hangul on the front of Mr. Losik's book. I have read most of Hwang Kee's books in Hangul and I can assure it....It is Korean (some hanja, but mostly Hangul).
> 
> On the other hand, the front of Mr. Losik's book is complete jibberish. He made an ATTEMPT to write the words Tang Soo Do in Hangul and failed miserably.
> 
> I just returned to the US from a year in Korea and read Hangul very well. I'm not the best translator without a Korean helper, but I can at least pronounce all the words.


 
I placed a .jpg of the Jang Kwon text I have as my avatar.  I don't know if you can grab that picture and read it.  If not, private e-mail me and I'll send the file to you.

R. McLain


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## Chizikunbo

Some Tae Keuk Kwon Pages


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## Chizikunbo




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## Chizikunbo




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## Chizikunbo




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## rmclain

Thanks for posting those! 

Looks like pages from the same book as the Jang Kwon description I have.

R. McLain


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## Chizikunbo

rmclain said:


> Thanks for posting those!
> 
> Looks like pages from the same book as the Jang Kwon description I have.
> 
> R. McLain



no problem ;-)
It surprises me more people dont try to re-create Hwang Kee's TKK, we know that it is Yang 88, so take that, and combine it with the info in these pages and it could be something nice, maybe even almost accurate...
To me, it would seem that TKK was more important to Hwang Kee than SRJK anyway, the influence is obvious in his Chil Sung series...just look at the first couple movements in Il Ro ;-)
take care,
--josh


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## Mr. Daly

Thank you so much for the translation of the text.  As a student of an independant association of Moo Duk Kwan Karate (Tang Soo Do - Tae Kwon Do) I had learned many of the advanced forms before my instructor left Wyoming.  Finding and learning the complete system as it was in 1972 has been a goal of mine since then.
I have found that many people do the advanced hyungs differently.  In the past I have compared the Korean versions with the Okinawan versions and Chinese versions to better understand the hyungs.  It is my opinion that KJN Hwang Kee borrowed these patterns, but adapted them to his previous Soo Bahk Ki, Tae Kyun and Kwon Bup techniques to make the Korean versions of these hyung.  I believe this was primarily due to the fact that his original ancient Korean arts were mostly oriented towards military drills of the ancient Korean army and therefore mostly a series of linear techniques.  More elaborate karate kata and Gung Fu Kwin were already familiar to the Koreans of his day and it was a logical step in his development of Tang Soo Do.
I have also found that there are many "hidden techniques" in the hyung which involve hapkido/yudo, korean chin na, and tai chi styled defences.
A number of the hyung also have weapons versions in Okinawan Kobu-Do.


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## Mr. Daly

Chizikunbo said:


>


Thank you so much for the copy of SoRimJangKwan and for the pages of TaeKuekKwon.  These look very much like what I have seen with the Yang long form.  A good source for the defensive applications is the book Chen Style Taijiquan by Zhaohua Publishing.  You have been a great blessing to me.
     Also I would like to take you up on your challenge.  By using Shaolin Chang Chuan form and the description you have supplied, I believe that we can come up with a reasonable reconstruction of SoRimJangKwan.  If you know of any other sources that would help, let me know.

Your fellow student of the Arts,

Don Daly


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## rmclain

You can find old film/video and photos of Kim Pyung-soo demonstrating Jang Kwon in the US since the late 1960's.  He used to demonstrate that form around the US (Henry Cho's tournaments, IJ Kim's tournaments, etc.) with Kang Rhee.  In the July 2005 issue of Taekwondo Times Magazine, he was featured in an article and one photo has he and his son demonstrating Jang Kwon.

But, from what I've been able to gather, it is doubtful that version is the same as the version MDK instructors are looking for.  As the first Korean correspondent to Black Belt Magazine (1964-68), he had the opportunity to visit many schools in S. Korea.  He told me on numerous occasions that he never saw or heard of any MDK school teaching a version of Jang Kwon in Korea or the US.

But, as a resource for your research you can always contact Grandmaster Kim Pyung-soo directly.   http://www.kimsookarate.com

R. McLain


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## Don Daly

I do not know if anyone still checks this thread, but I hope to have a written copy of my interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwan on this thread this week.
I am about ready to give you my interpretation of the English translation that Master Josh put on this thread for us all to see.  I have been doing this form for over a year now, but have kept changing it, and modifying my interpretation to make it as close as I can to what I believe it is describing.  Having been out of active training for quite awhile due to health issues, it will be a little while longer before I put it on Youtube.  I never did get any responses from Len Losik on the form, so I have no idea whether it looks at all like his pictures.  If you have seen the original of this form, please critic what I have done and correct my mistakes on this thread, or send them to me at DonaldWDaly@gmail.com.  Tang Soo!


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## Don Daly

Here is page 1 of my interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwon:

An Interpretation of the So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung

              by Donald W. Daly ​
The notes behind numbers in parenthesis are from an English translation of the original Korean version of Grandmaster Hwang Kee's Text: Soo Bahk Do Dae Gham that has been placed on the Internet1 .  Mr. Daly's interpretation from that English translation is in Italics2  with suggestions for added techniques in brackets3 . Mr. Daly has supplied numbers without parentheses for his interpretation4.  Obvious typographical errors have been corrected and some of the sentences have been edited for better understanding with added words in Italics.

(1)  This _hyung (routine)_ has the same _yun moo sun (pattern)_ as a Naihanji _(Ne Boo Jin / Chul Ki) _hyung, but it's motion starts more from the middle than Naihanji, also moving toward the left _(east)_ and upward _(north)_.  

_Facing South:_
(2)  The ready stance is in triangle stance and relaxed. 
_Choon bee jaseh (normal ready stance)_,

(3)  Facing front, raise elbows in horizontal position.
_So Rim Jang Kwon choon bee jaseh,_ 

(4)  This form starts with the extension of the right hand.
_1.  a. (Continuing from previous stance) right upper back knife-hand (to south),
_
(5)  The left hand hits the right hand at the point and then the hands cross each other, move hands toward the right center.
_b.  L. back-hand slap under r. hand, lift into upper knife-hand x-block, twist into left over right fists (chambered) above r. hip,
_
(6)  Make one step to the right, face front, raise elbows in horizontal position (same as #3).
_2.  R. step west into south facing ride horse stance, with rising side elbow attacks,
_
(7)  The body and eyes face the same direction. Turn left _(east)_ and lift the right leg to left _(east)_ side take 1 step and face front (south) of form...both hands will be raised
_3.  Cross right foot over left into cross-stance with raised arms [outside to inside blocks], _

(8)  Keep the left side same, step to a horse stance with the left hands in fighting stance.
_4.  Left step into east facing side horse-stance with reinforced left middle hammer-block,_

1 Thanks to Grandmaster Charles Ferraro for providing the English translation, and to Master Daniel Sagarra for posting it on the  Internet so that "Warrior-Scholars" from other Tang Soo Do schools could pursue enlightenment.  Also thanks to Master Josh Pasceiwitz who reposted the translation on "Martial Talk".  Grateful acknowledgment to Master John Hancock who wrote "Quest for the Truth" and for putting the Cheul Kwon and Jang Kwon Hyungs (kwon bop hyungs thought to be the sources of So Rim Jang Kwon) on YouTube.  Thanks to Pa Sa Ryu stylist Tim Baker who posted the Kwon Bop version of So Ho Yun (a form which is said to be very similar to So Rim Jang Kwon), and J. P. Istella who posted another "Sippalki" version of the Kwon Bop hyung - Jang Kwon.  So Rim Kwon Bop video of Dahm Toi Ship-Ee Ro (Tan Tui) by  Master James Theros was also studied as a source of techniques of So Rim Jang Kwon.
2 This interpretation is based on an assumption that the notes in Soo Bahk Do Dae Gam describe the "skeleton" of the form without a complete "fleshing out" of every technique. 
3 Additional resources for techniques include the books: Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Moo Duk Kwan vol. 1 & 2 by  Grandmaster Hwang, Kee, Tang Soo Do by Grandmaster Kang Uk Lee, Tae Kwon Do by Grandmaster Richard Chun, Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu by Yang Jwing Ming & Jeffery A. Bolt, and The Tao of Taijiquan by Jou, Tsung Hwa.  Master James Theros of Level 10 Kung Fu Association provided additional information about So Rim Kwon Bop.
4 Numbers in Mr. Daly's interpretation coincide with the stances (postures) not including the "ready stances"

Next time page 2.

Tang Soo!


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## Don Daly

Here is page 2.

_Facing East:_ 
  (9)    The right foot will stay the same. The left foot will face left (_east_) side. Turn toward the front. The body will face front.
_5.  Pivot l. foot into l. back-stance [with l. low. knife-hand block / r. up. rear. knife-hand block, l. m. palm-hand center block / r. down. knife-hand attack], _

(10) Facing left (_east_), the left foot will stay in place. Make right foot attack (type of kick not clear) and land in defensive stance.
_6.  R. [spinning outside crescent] kick (returning to back-stance),_

(11) In same stance, the left arm will extend toward the right side, the right fist will turn downward.
_7.  L. back-stance with l. inside palm-hand block / r. rev. low. punch, 
_
(12) The right foot steps to right (_west_) side and bends at the knee (probably _backward_ front stance). The front side of your body will face the front (_south_) 
       of form and your eyes will be looking to the left (_east_) side. The left foot will be extended. The right hand will block upward. The left hand will block 
       upward (probably reverse high block).
_8.  R. pivot/step back into l. backward-stance with r. up. out. block to rear [with l. low. block], l. up. out. block [with previous r. block held],_

(13) The left foot will face left (_east_). The body and eyes will face towards the back (_north_) of the form and repeat motions in #8 (_but facing the opposite _
_direction_).
_9.  Shift forward twisting l. into r. side cross-stance (east) with double low. elbow blocks into up. out. blocks, 
     10.  R.  step into r. side horse-stance with r. m. reinforced hammer-block,_

(14) Same motions as #9 (_face opposite direction_).
_11.  Pivot l. foot into (west facing) l. back-stance [with l. m. block / r. rear. low block],_

_Facing West: _
(15) The left foot stays the same. The right foot comes together towards the left foot. Your head turns towards the back (_north_) of the form and make a 
       high punch.
_12.  R. step to l. into bent-knees feet-together stance looking north with [l. palm-heel center block] / r up. punch to north,_

(16) Lift left foot and raise body upward.
_13.  Lift left foot into l. crane stance [with double upper outside hammer-fists],_

(17) The right foot will stay on floor and pivot and the left foot will face the right (_west_) side with the head turned to the right (_west_).  Same action as #7
_(opposite direction)_.
_14.  L. step down / pivot 180o into r. cross-stance [with south facing low elbow blocks into high outside blocks],_

(18) Twist right to a reverse front stance facing left (_east_) side of form. Head turned to the right hand side and prepare for attack(defensive stance). 
       Execute a left punch and backfist.
_15.  R. twist 270o to an east facing front-stance with r. ext. palm block, 
     16.  L. step into l. front-stance with l. upper punch, l. m. block/backfist,_

Page 3 next time.

Tang Soo!


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## Don Daly

It seems that the format on the page of my replies is different than when displayed and the italics, etc. are not carrying through very well either.  I will try to compensate tomorrow for page 4 (there are 8 pages in total with 108 steps/postures).  Sure would be nice if someone would let me know if anyone is seeing this.
I am freely sharing many hours of work, because people on this site (and others) have freely shared information with me.  Thank you all who have been so kind.
Page 4 next time.

Don Daly
6th Dan - Laohu Kempo - Kobu Do
4th Dan Moo Duk Kwan Karate (Tang Soo Do / Tae Kwon Do)
Advance 1 - SDS Jeet Kune Do
Kushin Ryu Iaido, Korean Stick Weapons, & Kwon Dao (Wol Do)


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## Don Daly

Page 3 of my interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwon this time, which is below.  Page 4 next time.

_Facing East:_
(19)  The right foot will make a front kick to the front, then land in front stance.
_17.  R front-kick (stepping forward),_
_18.  Land in r. front-stance [with l. in. palm-heel block / r. up. crane wrist strike/hook],_

(20)  Facing the right (_west_) side the left foot will stay right (_west_) side, and the right foot will step
        once and make front kick. 
_19.  L. pivot to west into l. front-stance [holding r. crane-wrist to east / with l. palm-hand to west, 
            r. reverse m. punch],_

_Facing West: _
_ 20.  R. front-kick [with l. rev. up. punch],
     21.  R. step forward into r. front-stance,_

(21)  Same as #20 except reverse left and right 
_22.  L. front-kick [with r. rev. up.  punch], 
     23.  L. step forward into l. front-stance,_

(22)  Same as #21 except reverse left and right.
_24.  R. front-kick [with l. rev. up. punch], 
     25. R. step forward into r. front-stance [with r. up. punch (with ki-hap)],_

(23)  Turn toward left (_east_), the left foot will be make a fighting stance, and execute a middle punch.
_26.  L. pivot / step east into l. cat-stance with l. reinforced hammer-block, l. m. [jab] punch,
_
_Facing East:_
(24)  The right fist will punch the left (_east_) side.
_27.  L. step into l. ext. front-stance (east) with r. rev. up. punch,
_
(25)  Same as #24 except reverse left and right.
_28.  R. pivot into r. ext. front-stance (west) with l. rev. up. punch, _

(26)  Same as #25 except reverse left and right.. Open the left hand and push forward
_29. a. L. pivot into l. ext. front-stance (east) with r. rev. up. punch, 
          b. L. pushing palm-hand [with r. back. low. knife-hand], _

(27)  The left foot will lift to the right side. The right side will be centered and lift the left foot, 
         and make a right hand high block and a simultaneous left arm low block.
_30.  L. crane-stance with r. high side block to rear / l. low. block to front,
_
(28)  With both hands push forward (_facing the east side of the form_).
_31.  L. step into an east facing l. front-stance with double palm-hand push,
     32.  [R. 270o pivot on left foot into sweeping into an east facing low backstance],
_
        Then make a right hand low block. The head and body will face the left (east) side of the form.
_33.  Shift into a r. front stance with a r. low block,
_
(29)  The left foot will stay the same as the left hand will open and push forward.
_34.  Same stance with l. rev. palm-hand push (r. hand chambers),_

(30)  The right foot will turn towards the back (north) of the form and bend at the knee.
_35.  L. pivot into l. backward-stance [with l. low block (west) / r. high outside block (east)],_

Next time page 4.

Don Daly


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## Don Daly

Here is page 4 of my interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwon.  Please let me know if you see any mistakes.

_Facing West:_
(31) Step forward one step (_west_). 
_36.  R. step west raising up into..._

(32) Kick with left foot. The right hand will be open and hold the left hand.
_37.   Left front rising-kick with l. hand in r. hand into..._

(33) The right foot will execute a front kick before the left foot touches the ground.
_38.  R. front jump-kick,
     39.  Land in high r. front-stance...,_

(34) Facing the back (_north_) of the form, put the feet together, the arms will make a middle block.
_40.  L. step / r. pivot into north facing feet-together-stance with l. hand reinforced r. m. block,
_
(35) Turning hips to the left, the body will face the right (_west_) side of the form. The left foot steps 
        one step, both hands will be the same as #34 _(but reversed)_.
_41.  L. step / pivot into l. back-stance (to west) with r. hand reinforced l. m. block,
_
(36) The right foot moves forward, the left hand will punch forward, and the right hand will 
         punch to the right (_west_) side.
_42.  R. step with l. rev. m. punch into r. side horse-stance with [l. up. palm-block] / r. side-punch,
_
(37) The left foot will step forward.
_43.  L. step west [with arms crossed in front],_

(38) The right foot will step forward, jump in the air and turn to the left side of the form. 
        The face and body will continue to face the front (_south_). Stay in the horse stance. 
        The left hand will face downward.
_44.  R. jump [side kick / r. side punch] landing into...
     45.  South facing ride horse stance with l. low. palm-heel,_

Facing South:
(39)  The right foot stays the same. The left foot moves to the right bringing both feet together. 
        The left hand makes a middle block and the right hand extends forward (_south_).
_46.  Bring l. foot to r. into a south facing feet-together-stance with r. hand rein. l. outside block,_

(40) Same as #7.
_47.  Cross right foot over left into l. cross-stance with raised arms [high outside to inside blocks],
_
(41) Same as #8.
_48.  L. step down into l. side horse-stance with rein. l. hammer-block (to east)_,

(42)  Turn left, attack the middle...same as #20.
_49.  R. step into r. front-stance with [l. inside palm-heel block / r. up. crane-wrist strike/hook],
     50.  L. pivot (to west) into l. front-stance [with l. palm-hand / holding r. crane-wrist to east, 
            r. reverse m. punch], _

Next time page 5.  

Tang Soo


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## Don Daly

Here is page 5 of So Rim Jang Kwon interpretation.

_Facing West:_
_51.    R. front-kick (stepping back),_

(43) Same as #42, except reverse the left and right.
_52.  R. pivot into r. front-stance (east) with [r. ext. palm block,] l. rev. m. punch,
     53.    L. m. front-kick (stepping back),_

(44) Same as #42, the opposite of #43.
_54.  L. pivot into l. front-stance (west) with [l. ext. palm block,] r. rev. m. punch,
     55.    R. front-kick (stepping back),_

(45) Turn left, the head and body will face the right (_west_) side of the form. The right foot will stay on 
        the ground. The left foot will lift, and then execute a right high block.
_56.  R. step back raising l. foot into west-facing l. rooster-stance with r. upper block, _

(46) At the time the left foot touches the ground. The body will be facing the rear (_north_) of the form. 
       The upper body will turn towards the back (_north_) of the form and both hands will stretch forward.
_57.  L. step into a north facing horse-stance with double front tiger palms, 
_
Facing North:
(47) Same as #46, the right foot will step forward, and the left foot will be facing the right (_west_) side 
       of the form.  Execute a right punch.
_58.  R. step into. r. extended front-stance with r. [up.] punch,
_
(48) Before the left foot lands, the right foot will make a front kick
_59.  R. front jump-kick,
_
(49) Both feet land together, twist hips to the rear, head and body will face front (_south_) of the form.
       Make a left middle block and a simultaneous right punch (_to south_). 
_60.  Landing l. pivot / r. step into south-facing feet-together-stance with l. m. block / r. [low] punch, 
_
       Repeat #s 46, 47, 48, and 49 _(opposite hands/feet)_
_61.  R. step/pivot into a north facing horse-stance with double front tiger palms, 
     62.  L. step into l. extended front-stance with l. [up.] punch,
     63.  L. front jump-kick,
     64.  R. pivot into south-facing attention-stance with r. m. block / l. [low.] punch, 
_
Facing South:
(50)  Right foot moves forward, the body and head will face the left (_east_) side of the form
_65.  R. step forward into r. front-stance,
     66.  L. pivot into l. front-stance to east [with l. m. reinforced outside block],_

Facing East:
(51) Step with the right foot, the body and head will face the rear of the form (_north_),
_67.  R. step into r. back-stance [with r. low. knife-hand block],_

Next time page 6.  

Don Daly


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## Don Daly

Page 6 of interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung.

_Facing North:_
(52) Raise right foot and make a high block with the right hand while making a left hand low block.  
_68. a.  R. rooster-stance with r. up. block / l. low. block (to north),_

(53) Both hands will come together, keep the right foot raised and reverse the hands
_ b.  Holding r. rooster-stance switch to r. low block / l. up. block (to north),_

(54) Bend the right knee and stomp with the left foot
_69.  L. hop/stomp [into bent-knees feet-together stance with l. fist to r. hand nailed fist"],_

       Repeat the moves from #52, 53, 54 _(opposite hands/feet)_
_70. a.  L. rooster-stance with l. up. block  / r. low. block (to north),
            b.  Holding l. rooster-stance switch to l. low block / r. up. block (to north),
       71. R. hop/stomp [into bent-knees feet-together stance with r. fist to l. hand "nailed fist"],_

(55)  The right foot stays the same. The left foot will step forward one step to the right (_west_) side of 
         the form. The head and body will turn to the right (_west_) side of the form.
_72.  L. step into west facing l. cat-stance [with l. ext. palm-hand block],_

_Facing West:_
(56) The left foot will make a front kick and the right hand will be chambered and ready for an attack.
_73.  L. front displacement-kick with r. fist at hip, 
       74.  L. step down into l. front-stance [with r. rev. up. ridge-hand attack, r. rev. knife-hand block],_

(57) The same motion as #55 and #56 except reverse the left and the right. 
_75.  R. front-kick with l. fist at hip, 
       76.  R. step down into r. front-stance [with l. rev. up. ridge-hand attack, l. rev. knife-hand block],_

(58) The same motion as #57 except reverse the left and the right.
_77.  L. front-kick with r. fist at hip, 
       78.  L. step down into l. front-stance [with r. rev. up. ridge-hand attack, r. rev. m. ridge-hand block, 
             r. up. spear-hand attack],_

(59) The left foot will face front (_south_), make a right low block to the front (_south_) of the form.
_79.  R. pivot 270o on left foot with r. step into south facing r. front-stance with r. low block,_

_Facing South:_
(60) Same as #11 except the body and head will be in different direction.
_80.  L. foot pivot shifting into r. back-stance with r. up. in. parry / l. reverse low punch,
_
 (61) Same motion as #12 except the direction.
_81.  L. step to north pivoting into r. backward-stance (south) with l. up. out. block (north) / 
             [ r. low. block],  holding l. up. outside block (north) r. up. outside  block (south),_

 (62) Facing the front (_south_) of the form, the body turns to the left (_east_) side, the right foot will come 
        together with the left foot.
_82.  R. pivot/step into east facing feet-together-stance [with right front elbow to l. palm, 
             extend arms forward with palms out],

_Next time page 7.

Please check this out and give me feedback.  I appreciate the help.

Don Daly


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## Don Daly

Page 7 of So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung interpretation by Don Daly.  Please send feedback, corrections, etc. _

Facing East:
     83.  [L. front kick (east) while grabbing and drawing fists to hips (chambered)], 
_
(63)  Bend the knees and extend both arms, the right fist will punch upward.
_84.  Step down into bent-knees-feet-together stance with l. low. uppercut punch / r. high punch to east,
_
(64)  Jump and turn to the left. The body and head turn to the rear (_north_) of the form. 
        Land in a (_north facing_) horse stance. 
_85. a.  Jump east pivoting left into a north facing ride-horse stance with...
_
Facing North:
(65) The left hand makes a block to the front (_north_) and the right fist makes a low block
_b.   L. m. knife-hand block (to north) / r. low. block (north),
_
(66)  The left foot will come to the right foot, the body and head will be facing the back (_north_) of the
        form, the left fist makes a low block, and the right fist will execute a punch.
_86.  L. foot to r. foot into feet-together stance with l. low block, right m. punch (to north),
_
(67)  The left foot will face the right (_west_) side and you will take one step, the left foot will be in a 
         fighting stance. The body and head will face the right (_west_) side of the form.
_87.  L. step / pivot into west facing l. cat-stance with l. reinforced m. hammer-block,_

_Facing West:_
(68)  Facing West, the right foot will move one step. Make a left, then right punch.
_88.  R. step into r. front-stance with l. rev. m. punch, 
     89.  [R. pivot into r. side horse stance with l. up. palm block] / r. up. side punch,_

(69) Same motion as #41.  
_90.  L. pivot / step into l. side horse-stance (facing east) with l. m. reinforced hammer-block,_

_Facing East:_
(70)  Same motion as #66 except the direction and the body and head will face the front (_south_): 
_91.  R. to l. foot into south facing feet-together-stance with r. low block, l. m. punch (to south),_

_Facing South:_
(71)  Same motion as #70 except the left foot will raise to the right knee (_opposite hands_).
_92. a.  L. foot to right knee into a crane stance with l. low block, r. m. punch,
_
(72) Same motion as #7.
_b.  Pivot upper body into (east facing) l. crane-stance with double inside block,_


 Thanks for your comments.  Next time page 8 (the final page).  

Don Daly


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## Don Daly

Here is the final page (p.8) of my interpretation of the translation so generously provided by others on Martial Talk.  See page 1 for credits, etc. My additions and interpretations are in _italics_ on this page.  My suggestions for added techniques are in [brackets].  With my added techniques there are 108 postures/steps in the So Rim Jang Kwon Hyung not counting Choon Bee Jaseh or So Rim Jang Kwon Choon Bee Jaseh.  The original notes contain (85) descriptions of techniques but include about 105 steps/postures.

_Facing East:_
(73) Same motion as #8.
_93.  L. step down into l. side horse-stance with l. reinforced m. hammer-block,_

(74) Same motion as #9.
_94.  L. pivot / shift back into l. back-stance [with r. rear up. out. soodo block/ l. low. soodo block, 
             l. palm-heel center block / r. down. knife-hand attack, l. ext. palm-hand block],
_
(75) Same motion as #20.
_95.  R. reverse middle punch, r. up. front-kick [with l. rev. up. punch], 
      96.  R. step forward into r. front-stance,_

(76) Same motion as #21, reverse of #75.
_97.  L. reverse middle punch, l. up. front-kick [with r. rev. up. punch], 
      98.  L. step forward into l. front-stance [with l. up. punch],_

(77) Same motion as #76, Reverse the direction._
      99.  R. pivot (west) into r. front-stance [with r. m. block / l. rev. m. punch],
    100.  L. front-kick, _
:
(78) Same motion as #77, Reverse the direction _
    101.  L. step back / pivot (east) into l. front-stance [with l. m. block / r. rev. m. punch],
    102.  R. front-kick, _

(79) Same motion as #78, Reverse the direction_
    103.  R. step back / pivot (west) into r. front-stance [with r. m. block],
    104.  L. front-kick,_

_Facing West:_
(80) The face and head will face the rear (_north, eyes looking west_), same motion as #55. _
    105.  L. step down into west facing l. back-stance (with l. ext. palm-hand block),_

(81) Turning towards the right (_west_) side, same motion as #56.
_106.  L. up. front displacement kick with r. hand chambered,
_
(82) As the left foot touches the ground land in a fighting stance with your head facing the left (_east_)
        side of the form. Make a left punch and chamber the right fist.
_107.  L. step down / r. pivot/shift back into r. cat-stance (facing east) with l. rev. m. punch,_

_Facing East:_
(83) Same motion as #82, except reverse the left and the right.
_108.  L. pivot/shift back into l. cat-stance (facing west) with r. rev. m. punch [ki-hap],
_
_Facing West: _
(84) Same motion as #3.
_So Rim Jang Kwon Choon Bee (l. step back towards east / pivot to south into So Rim Jang Kwon Choon Bee Jaseh), _

_Facing South:_
(85) Same motion as #2.
_Baro Jasae (return to standard choon bee jaseh).

_Please check this out and share your insights and suggestions for improvement or corrections, and feel free to ask about any terms that are unfamiliar.  With so many different Tang Soo Do (or Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do) organizations and orphaned schools these days there are several different ways to name techniques in Korean and in English.  Some of these English terms may be from Chuanfa / Kwon Bop sources as well and several of the techniques found in this form (typical of Shaolin Long Fist styles) are not common terms in all Tang Soo Do or even Kenpo schools.

Don Daly


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## Don Daly

I need to make a correction to my interpretation of (74)-(76) above.  It should read:

(74) Same motion as #9.
_94.  L. pivot / shift back into l. back-stance [with r. rear up. out. soodo block/ l. low. soodo block, 
                      l. palm-heel center block / r. down. knife-hand attack, r. reverse middle punch],_

(75) Same motion as #20.
_95.  R. up. front-kick [with l. rev. up. punch], 
     96.  R. step forward into r. front-stance,_

(76) Same motion as #21, reverse of #75.
_ 97.  L. up. front-kick [with r. rev. up. punch], 
           98.  L. step forward into l. front-stance [with l. up. punch],_

Please check this out and give me feedback.

Don Daly


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## SJON

Hello.

That is most interesting.

I havent had time to go through it all, nor am I a Changquan stylist, but can you comment on how this version compares with any of the major pre-Revolution standardised Long Fist forms such as those of the Chinwoo Association or the Nanjing Institute?

Have you read my article in Totally Tae Kwon Do magazine Issue 55 (September 2013) on northern Chinese influences on the Kwans? It refers mainly to the Yoon Pyung In lineage (Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won), but it also discusses the concept of forms and styles in the northern CMA, specifically the term Long Fist or Changquan.

Regarding Tae Keuk Kwon, I must admit that I have a hard time seeing any real Taijiquan influence in the MDK lineage. I say this from the point of view of a practitioner of traditional TKD and a student of a variation of Chen Taijiquan. In my experience, TJQ is less about the actual techniques than about the body mechanics and structure, which are very different from those of the Karate-based arts like TSD and TKD. So you can know the techniques in the form, but if you dont perform them with TJQ body movement then it isnt TJQ.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Simon


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## Don Daly

SJON said:


> Hello.
> 
> That is most interesting.
> 
> I havent had time to go through it all, nor am I a Changquan stylist, but can you comment on how this version compares with any of the major pre-Revolution standardised Long Fist forms such as those of the Chinwoo Association or the Nanjing Institute?
> 
> Have you read my article in Totally Tae Kwon Do magazine Issue 55 (September 2013) on northern Chinese influences on the Kwans? It refers mainly to the Yoon Pyung In lineage (Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won), but it also discusses the concept of forms and styles in the northern CMA, specifically the term Long Fist or Changquan.
> 
> Regarding Tae Keuk Kwon, I must admit that I have a hard time seeing any real Taijiquan influence in the MDK lineage. I say this from the point of view of a practitioner of traditional TKD and a student of a variation of Chen Taijiquan. In my experience, TJQ is less about the actual techniques than about the body mechanics and structure, which are very different from those of the Karate-based arts like TSD and TKD. So you can know the techniques in the form, but if you dont perform them with TJQ body movement then it isnt TJQ.
> 
> I look forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Simon



Simon, 

Thanks for the insightful comments.  I have not had a chance to read your article, but it sounds interesting.  Master James Theros, who teaches pre-Revolution Shaolin Longfist-Mantis Kung Fu (the style taught in Korea) has given me some valuable information on this subject and I used his Tan Tui DVD as one of my examples (Level 10 Kung Fu Assoc).

Old style Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan stylists such as myself are spoiled.  I cherish the 1960's blend of Koreanized Karate with Taekkyon and Shaolin Longfist influenced energy, motion and kicking, while still having the more dynamic way of performing the hyung including emotional content.  (Only a Moo Duk Kwan traditionalist will understand the first partof that sentence, but viewing the Japan Karate Champions doing Kata will illustrate the later.)  Originally in his version of Tang Soo Do, students progressed from hard  style basic to hard style fluid and dynamic.  Starting with Black Belt  they also began to learn Ne Ga Ryu forms that led to slower softer  fluidity and eventually to Tai Chi Chuan.  I am still persuing the  original path that is of necessity going in two directions while still  providing more fluidity in both.

Although I am not a Soo Bahk Do student I understand what Grandmaster Hwang, Kee was doing.  He was rediscovering and developing Korea's martial art heritage.  His Soo Bahk Do combines all these influences to become a uniquely Korean traditional and at the same time Hwang Kee's own style.  You cannot judge Hwang Kee's Tai Chi Chuan abilities by his students today, but you can see the Tai Chi Chuan influences as well as the Shaolin Chang Chuan and Tan Tui influences in his newer Soo Bahk Do forms:  Especially in the Yuk Ro and Hwa Sun Hyungs. People who had the privilege of actually having Grandmaster Hwang Kee work with them have all said that his energy (ki) was very dynamic and definitely beyond simple karate.

Again thank you for the input, and I look forward to your further comments about this interpretation of So Rim Jang Kwan.  Your background should provide some great suggestions for me.

Don Daly


----------



## SJON

PM sent.

Best regards,

Simon


----------



## Makalakumu

Don Daly said:


> Although I am not a Soo Bahk Do student I understand what Grandmaster Hwang, Kee was doing.  He was rediscovering and developing Korea's martial art heritage.  His Soo Bahk Do combines all these influences to become a uniquely Korean traditional and at the same time Hwang Kee's own style.  You cannot judge Hwang Kee's Tai Chi Chuan abilities by his students today, but you can see the Tai Chi Chuan influences as well as the Shaolin Chang Chuan and Tan Tui influences in his newer Soo Bahk Do forms:  Especially in the Yuk Ro and Hwa Sun Hyungs. People who had the privilege of actually having Grandmaster Hwang Kee work with them have all said that his energy (ki) was very dynamic and definitely beyond simple karate.



This is what I have noticed as well.  When I trained in SBD, I learned the Chil Sung Ill, E, Sam, and Sa Lo.  I also learned Yuk Ro Cho Dan.  At the same time, I was learning Yang Style Tai Chi.  A lot of the movements were similar, but there were some significant changes that didn't make a lot of sense.  In my Tai Chi class we could take any movement in the quan and apply it to another person.  We never did this in SBD and I think this explains some of the changes.  That said, looking back, there are some cool applications in those hyung.


----------

