# Ever Heard of Jung Sim Do?



## kenpohack (Aug 3, 2005)

I've ran across an instructor in Las Vegas who claims to teach a Korean style called Jung Sim Do. I can find little information about the art online. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who may have studied the system. The instructor that I spoke to claims to be the personal disciple of the Do Joo Nim of the system, Doug Vess. Again, I can find no record of Doug Vess anywhere online, except an obituary for a Grandmaster Doug Vess who was a 10th Dan in Shotokan (a far cry from a Hapkido-based system). Given the proliferation of frauds and charlatans in the martial arts, I would not be terribly suprised to find that very little of what this martial artist told me even remotely resembles the truth. Any feedback is appreciated.


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## Clmarts (Aug 4, 2005)

Jung Sim Do was established by Grandmaster Seung Kil Choi in 1974. It is a valid style. I have never studied it myself, but I have friends from the tournament circuit that have studied the art. It's a mix of TKD, Hap Ki Do and Yu Do (Judo), also a mix of weapons and Tai Chi style meditation techniques. As far as Doug Vess goes, I know he was a Shotokan Grandmaster, but, never heard that he was involved in anything related to any kind of TKD or Jung Sim Do.


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## kenpohack (Aug 4, 2005)

Where did Doug Vess hail from? I believe he taught out of Roanoake, VA. Did he ever venture out to Pennsylvania? The Las Vegas Jung Sim Do instructor who claims to be his disciple is from Pennsylvania. I believe that Doug Vess passed away in 2000. This gentleman claims to have been promoted to 7th Dan by Doug Vess in December of 2004. Possibly, communication with the dead is a requirement for advance rank in Jung Sim Do.


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## kenpohack (Aug 5, 2005)

Does the Kidohae list certifications for black belts of Jung Sim Do?


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## sahng (Oct 26, 2008)

i studied jung sim do to the high bluebelt level at the chambersburg academy of martial arts. Even though i never trained to black belt level i still learned many very effective techs for self defense. The art is a combination of tae kwon do, yudo/judo, and hapkido plus weapons. it's very effective.:asian:


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## YoungMan (Oct 28, 2008)

Every so-called Grandmaster claims their style is very effective. What has this guy done with Jung Sim Do as far as demonstrating how effective it is? And placing ads in Tae Kwon Do Times and Black Belt doesn't count.


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## Zinobile (Feb 11, 2021)

Interesting.  Clmarts' 8-4-05 post info is correct.  I studied Jung Sim Do under Master Kil Choi and his associated masters (Sun Cheung & Nam Kyu Yoon) from June of 1976 off & on (he moved around a bit) through the spring of 1984.  Our last contact was in the late 80s when I helped him out with some tasks related to a move back to Korea.  He was my friend, and he passed away in 1992 if the reports I heard are correct.  Master Cheung ran the studio in Chambersburg that was mentioned above.  I moved to Hagerstown, MD in 1977 some time & studied under Master Cheung at his studio there before moving to St. Louis, MO via Raleigh, NC to join Master Kil Choi with other higher ranking students (including Bob Ley & Joe Fox & others) to establish a new studio there.  Never heard of Master Vess, but Master Kil Choi taught in a number of places in the USA & Europe, so who knows?  Pennsylvania, however, is where he spent most of his time to the best of my knowledge.  
Anybody still watching this, I wonder?   
Anyway, any questions about Jung Sim Do, please ask.  I'll answer as best I can.


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## Doug C (May 17, 2021)

Zinobile said:


> Interesting.  Clmarts' 8-4-05 post info is correct.  I studied Jung Sim Do under Master Kil Choi and his associated masters (Sun Cheung & Nam Kyu Yoon) from June of 1976 off & on (he moved around a bit) through the spring of 1984.  Our last contact was in the late 80s when I helped him out with some tasks related to a move back to Korea.  He was my friend, and he passed away in 1992 if the reports I heard are correct.  Master Cheung ran the studio in Chambersburg that was mentioned above.  I moved to Hagerstown, MD in 1977 some time & studied under Master Cheung at his studio there before moving to St. Louis, MO via Raleigh, NC to join Master Kil Choi with other higher ranking students (including Bob Ley & Joe Fox & others) to establish a new studio there.  Never heard of Master Vess, but Master Kil Choi taught in a number of places in the USA & Europe, so who knows?  Pennsylvania, however, is where he spent most of his time to the best of my knowledge.
> Anybody still watching this, I wonder?
> Anyway, any questions about Jung Sim Do, please ask.  I'll answer as best I can.


I also studied under Master Kil Choi  from '76-'80. Went to all of the schools you mentioned. Lived with Master Kil Choi one summer when he opened the Raleigh school (1978, I think). Knew Joe Fox and Bob Ley well (the first two American black belts)...As I recall, Bob Ley ran the Raleigh school that summer and Joe Fox drove me back to Chambersberg at summers end (He had a cool Camero or Firebird...can't remember which). Also spent a summer at the St. Louis school. I have good photos of Master Kil Choi, Master Yoon, Master Cheung (I was at his wedding). Very cool to find your post...


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## Doug C (May 17, 2021)

sahng said:


> i studied jung sim do to the high bluebelt level at the chambersburg academy of martial arts. Even though i never trained to black belt level i still learned many very effective techs for self defense. The art is a combination of tae kwon do, yudo/judo, and hapkido plus weapons. it's very effective.:asian:


When I studied in Chambersberg, '76-'80, the belts were: white, orange, yellow, green(my highest), red, and black. Maybe it changed later.


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## Zinobile (May 18, 2021)

Doug C said:


> I also studied under Master Kil Choi  from '76-'80. Went to all of the schools you mentioned. Lived with Master Kil Choi one summer when he opened the Raleigh school (1978, I think). Knew Joe Fox and Bob Ley well (the first two American black belts)...As I recall, Bob Ley ran the Raleigh school that summer and Joe Fox drove me back to Chambersberg at summers end (He had a cool Camero or Firebird...can't remember which). Also spent a summer at the St. Louis school. I have good photos of Master Kil Choi, Master Yoon, Master Cheung (I was at his wedding). Very cool to find your post...


It was a Camaro.  And unfortunately, my pal Joe passed away earlier this year in Harrisburg, PA.  1978 would have been the year that the Raleigh studio was started.  If you wouldn't mind sharing the photos you mentioned, I'd sure appreciate it.  And Joe's wife might like to have them for his upcoming "Celebration of Life" next month.  My email address is Zinobile@yahoo.com if you'd like to get in touch directly.
And I do believe that you are correct about Bob & Joe being the first Americans to earn black belts under Master Kil Choi.  I joined them a little bit later (9-17-78 certificate date, my exam was in Jan. '78).  We all may have tested for 2nd Dan in Jan. '80 when I did, but I can't remember for sure ... they may have earned that before me (I'll ask Bob about that.).  
Attached is a picture of Master Kil Choi & me in front of the World Trade Center ... 1983 or '84 I think.
Great to see your reply


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## Zinobile (May 18, 2021)

kenpohack said:


> I've ran across an instructor in Las Vegas who claims to teach a Korean style called Jung Sim Do. I can find little information about the art online. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who may have studied the system. The instructor that I spoke to claims to be the personal disciple of the Do Joo Nim of the system, Doug Vess. Again, I can find no record of Doug Vess anywhere online, except an obituary for a Grandmaster Doug Vess who was a 10th Dan in Shotokan (a far cry from a Hapkido-based system). Given the proliferation of frauds and charlatans in the martial arts, I would not be terribly suprised to find that very little of what this martial artist told me even remotely resembles the truth. Any feedback is appreciated.


Hi there.  I just looked up "Do Joo Nim" (founder) ... that would have been Master Seung Kil Choi.  Jung Sim Do, when I was one of Master Kil Choi's students, was comprised of Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do, & Judo + weapons (sword, bo staff, nun chuks, & short stick primarily) + techniques of Master Choi's own design & other weapons that he liked.  He was much like Bruce Lee in his open-mindedness towards useful techniques wherever they might be found.  His personal abilities were supernatural ... sometimes physically disorienting when observed ... unlike anything else I've ever seen.  He was a formidable warrior with extraordinary, indescribable abilities.


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## Doug C (May 18, 2021)

Zinobile said:


> It was a Camaro.  And unfortunately, my pal Joe passed away earlier this year in Harrisburg, PA.  1978 would have been the year that the Raleigh studio was started.  If you wouldn't mind sharing the photos you mentioned, I'd sure appreciate it.  And Joe's wife might like to have them for his upcoming "Celebration of Life" next month.  My email address is Zinobile@yahoo.com if you'd like to get in touch directly.
> And I do believe that you are correct about Bob & Joe being the first Americans to earn black belts under Master Kil Choi.  I joined them a little bit later (9-17-78 certificate date, my exam was in Jan. '78).  We all may have tested for 2nd Dan in Jan. '80 when I did, but I can't remember for sure ... they may have earned that before me (I'll ask Bob about that.).
> Attached is a picture of Master Kil Choi & me in front of the World Trade Center ... 1983 or '84 I think.
> Great to see your reply


It's great to see your reply. this brings back great memories for me and  I recognize you. I think I did not get to know you very well (I was a kid), but my vague recollection is that we did interact...I think you did train me occasionally, and I seem to recall liking you.  When I saw your photo, it clicked for me. 
Just last night, I was digging around and found the news of Joe's passing...made me sad and I wish my condolences to you and his other friends and family. He was so kind and generous to me and a great role model.
I'm out of town at the moment, and sadly, I may not have any photos of Joe, but I will look hard. Most of the photos I have are of myself, and a couple of Master Cheung, and one great photo of Master Kil Choi, Master Yoon, and another senior master who I seldom studied with, standing at the door of the Hagerstown studio. Now that I thjnk of it, I think I may have a photo of YOU! Not sure, but you may be in that great photo with master Kil Choi...I think you are!!!
Thank you so much for the reply!  Let's do talk again.
Doug@avalonmillworks.com


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## Zinobile (May 18, 2021)

Zinobile said:


> It was a Camaro.  And unfortunately, my pal Joe passed away earlier this year in Harrisburg, PA.  1978 would have been the year that the Raleigh studio was started.  If you wouldn't mind sharing the photos you mentioned, I'd sure appreciate it.  And Joe's wife might like to have them for his upcoming "Celebration of Life" next month.  My email address is Zinobile@yahoo.com if you'd like to get in touch directly.
> And I do believe that you are correct about Bob & Joe being the first Americans to earn black belts under Master Kil Choi.  I joined them a little bit later (9-17-78 certificate date, my exam was in Jan. '78).  We all may have tested for 2nd Dan in Jan. '80 when I did, but I can't remember for sure ... they may have earned that before me (I'll ask Bob about that.).
> Attached is a picture of Master Kil Choi & me in front of the World Trade Center ... 1983 or '84 I think.
> Great to see your reply


1977 was the Raleigh studio's opening.


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