# how confident are you in your art ?



## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .

how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?

I've been thinking about this In my own context, and I'm really not sure that my skills are good enough to cope, but I'm a novice compared to many on here who are experts.

in that i also consider people in my group, who are much more skilled than i, who i am pretty sure ( through sparing)i can knock into next week with out breaking a,sweat, based just on my physical advantages as above

so, what say you?


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## CB Jones (Feb 8, 2018)

jobo said:


> bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur



That makes him 7’7” and 288 lbs.....

Is he a small Sasquatch?


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> That makes him 7’7” and 288 lbs.....


so a line backer then?

i said bigger rather than taller, but I'm 6'1 and two hundred pounds, and found myself in a situation with some one who was 6"8 and two fifty pounds, his calve were bigger than my thighs, so bigger is quite feasible even if your quite big yourself,

300lbs steroid pumping monsters with huge necks are at at all un common round her


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 8, 2018)

@jobo you seem to have a preoccupation with muscle size and strength.  your always seem to focus on physical strength and endurance. so it comes as no surprise to me that you compare your own abilities in this way.   i have gone against guys way bigger than i that were prison guards who worked out 2 times a day, and you know what they couldnt hit worth a crap.
my own experience tells me that size matters but its not everything.  experience matters more.  now that could be training experience but actual experience in violence is much more a factor.  the guy that has spent time in prison who likes to fight at the drop of a hat, the one who has a side of his personality that is pure malevolence...now that is the guy that worries me regardless of his size.


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> @jobo you seem to have a preoccupation with muscle size and strength.  your always seem to focus on physical strength and endurance. so it comes as no surprise to me that you compare your own abilities in this way.   i have gone against guys way bigger than i that were prison guards who worked out 2 times a day, and you know what they couldnt hit worth a crap.
> my own experience tells me that size matters but its not everything.  experience matters more.  now that could be training experience but actual experience in violence is much more a factor.  the guy that has spent time in prison who likes to fight at the drop of a hat, the one who has a side of his personality that is pure malevolence...now that is the guy that worries me regardless of his size.


its perfectly worthy question, if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain mechanical advantage, the question how much of an advantage  that gives you in the real world.

your answers seem to indecate that you feel your prison( guard) experiance means you are,confident in your,art to deal with bigger, fitter stronger oppoinent, which is great , but you didn't actually say they were stronger or fitter, and they don't have to hit you, just jump on you


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 8, 2018)

jobo said:


> , if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain mechanical advantage,


see i believe this is only partial true. there is also a psychological component.  violence is also emotional. you can overwhelm people with it to the point they just cave in.


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> see i believe this is only partial true. there is also a psychological component.  violence is also emotional. you can overwhelm people with it to the point they just cave in.


that to a large part comes under experiance and is an intrinsic part of your ma learning, Surely ! but yes, if your re going to freeze or other wise be overwhelmed then size strength and ma go out of the window, and you could be beaten up by a by a 80 lb 80 year old using a walking frame.


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 8, 2018)

this is were ring vs street shows the biggest divide because in the street you often have an ambush.
i want to attack with three components.  speed, surprise and violence of action.  i look at fitness and technique as a pre requisite.


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## oftheherd1 (Feb 8, 2018)

jobo said:


> ...
> 
> 300lbs steroid pumping monsters with huge necks are at at all un common round her



Note to self:  Don't go to Manchester UK.



jobo said:


> its perfectly worthy question, if ma is,anything, its using techneque and experiance to gain *mechanical* advantage, the question how much of an advantage  that gives you in the real world.



Some arts are defensive in nature.  That can give some advantages I think.  And I understand what I think you mean by mechanical advantage, but some pain compliance isn't just that mechanical in the meaning of joint locks or throws, if that is what you meant.  Pressure points wouldn't normally be considered mechanical.  But that is minor.  Otherwise I agree.



jobo said:


> your answers seem to indecate that you feel your prison( guard) experiance means you are,confident in your,art to deal with bigger, fitter stronger oppoinent, which is great , but you didn't actually say they were stronger or fitter, and they don't have to hit you, just jump on you



Even bum-rushes can be defended against.  The problem with prisoners is that even it they don't know a formal MA, they have lots of time to keep in great physical condition and learn those fighting techniques that work best in prison.  They will also often not monkey dance, just with little or no warning, attack.

If I have misstated anything about prisoners, hoshin 1600 can correct me.

As to me, I have no doubt my art is effective.  I am getting long in the tooth so I'm not so sure about myself.


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> this is were ring vs street shows the biggest divide because in the street you often have an ambush.
> i want to attack with three components.  speed, surprise and violence of action.  i look at fitness and technique as a pre requisite.


yes, but that isn't the most common way it goes down, unless its Robery, sexual a phyco or a serious grudge, most confrontations have a bone of contention,a discussion on who will do what to who and who's army they will use, before,blows are exchanged, which clearly gives,an opportunity to leave, but also rather removes the element  of surprise . Even with the first lot, there may be " warning" if only by the situation location


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 8, 2018)

ambush doesnt mean the other guy is off smelling the roses when i jump out from behind a tree and trounce on him.  it just means shifting gears into a preemptive striking when he is still chest puffing and peacocking.


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> Note to self:  Don't go to Manchester UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


only that he was fighting prison gards, rather than prisoners and in a " ring " i assume.

the rest kind of echoes my point, very fit attackers, with street smarts, prisoner or not are there and need to be factored in, your unlikely to be attacked by a lawyer even if he does work out

its really a personal question, rather than an ma in general question, i have faith in my art, that is if i was bigger stronger fitter and much much better, then id take on very much anybody with confidence, as i did when i was indeed much younger fitter and stronger and doing ma.

however that not the situation i find myself lf in to day, and I'm not sure Il ever be good enough skill wise to compensate

nb all body movements are ( bio) " mechanical"  so any leverage punch kick or block is better if the mechanism is correct


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## jobo (Feb 8, 2018)

hoshin1600 said:


> ambush doesnt mean the other guy id off smelling the roses when i jump out from behind a tree and trounce on him.  it just means shifting gears into a preemptive striking when he is still chest puffing and peacocking.


yes that's a good strat, which will give you the element of surprise,


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## CB Jones (Feb 8, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> The problem with prisoners is that even it they don't know a formal MA, they have lots of time to keep in great physical condition and learn those fighting techniques that work best in prison.



And sometimes those techniques become formal MA...like Jailhouse Rock/52 Blocks


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## Kababayan (Feb 8, 2018)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...



Answering this honestly, I would say that I didn't feel completely confident until I studied Krav Maga.  I'm not going to use this as an advertisement for Krav; it is more a reflection on my part.  I first began training in Tang Soo Do at a young age and I did daily sparring with adults, but it was "tag" sparring without much aggressiveness.  My next arts were considered traditional and all included controlled sparring and controlled drill environments but nothing that made me feel too uncomfortable.  Even as a sports karate guy and then a kickboxer, all of my matches were in controlled environments that included referees.  I am not a "talker", so when someone would get into my face I would feel uncomfortable.  I wanted to go right into the "hands-up and fight" competition mode.  That was my comfort zone. My comfort zone included both people agreeing to fight and the ability to put our hands up in an agreed upon contest.  I have been in a few situations, and my traditional martial arts training worked very well, but all of those situations happened to fall into my comfort zone. My comfort zone did not include drunken sucker punches, gun in my face, knife hidden in a sleeve, guy on drugs, active shooter, etc. Krav and their training drills, I feel, filled in those self defense gaps.  My traditional arts didn't have, for example, realistic knife defenses or consistent scenario training. There are other great self defense systems out there; I am just speaking from my own experience.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 8, 2018)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...


I'm comfortable that I have something in my tool box that will help me out.  Even if they are stronger, faster, and bigger.  I can't guarantee that I'll win all the time but I don't feel that I'll have the difficulties that some other people would have.  Fighting in the street is different than fighting in the ring.  The street gives me more opportunities to utilize the environment so I would feel comfortable with using kung fu (not just basic kickboxing).  

If someone is untrained then I'll have the upper hand.

My statements come from only having to spar and hold back what I feel I could actually do.  Sometimes you can see something so clearly that you know without a doubt.  I have a lot of brutality that I don't bring out during sparring.  To be honest, most of my confidence probably comes from fact that I'm happy with being brutal if necessary.


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## Kababayan (Feb 8, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> ...most of my confidence probably comes from fact that I'm happy with being brutal if necessary.



This quote is so true.  This ability, in my opinion, replaces years of martial arts training.  My friend, a former Army Ranger and a real bad-***, said that martial arts training made his fighting worse until he learned how to balance his Ranger training and his natural "jerk" attitude with his martial arts training. The fact that he could hit a guy without hesitation was one of the best aspects about his fighting ability.


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## Buka (Feb 8, 2018)

I'm good. Still have my lunch money and everything.


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## drop bear (Feb 8, 2018)

I live in a country with pretty good healthcare. If I get bashed I get bashed.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 8, 2018)

Kababayan said:


> This quote is so true.  This ability, in my opinion, replaces years of martial arts training.  My friend, a former Army Ranger and a real bad-***, said that martial arts training made his fighting worse until he learned how to balance his Ranger training and his natural "jerk" attitude with his martial arts training. The fact that he could hit a guy without hesitation was one of the best aspects about his fighting ability.


  It's my opinion that a lot of today's martial arts training focuses too much on "Zen."   For many it's all about being peaceful and not fighting.  

My perception of zen is totally different.  To me zen is less about peaceful as in peace, and more about the ability to control one's self.  I accept the "darkness" of brutality and I understand that the ability to be brutal does not extinguish the ability to be kind.  In my opinion Martial Arts should be all about learning how to manage that brutality vs trying to be peaceful.  The very nature of Martial Arts Techniques is about brutality, to act without thought of action. To learn how to disconnect motion and only focus on the brutal action that must be done.  The very nature of Martial Arts training shows us how to turn the "brutality switch" on and off.  Martial Arts was never created to be peaceful.  Yet for some reason, many schools train in brutal techniques and claim to be only for peace.  To me that is the biggest denial and imbalance that one could do to themselves in the context of training for self-defense.  

Brutality should be void of emotion.  It should be something that we can turn on and turn off at will.  Emotions tend to cloud actions and makes it more difficult to control one's own brutality.  Meditation works in the same way.  Meditation should be void of emotions, only the action of meditation matters.  There is no brotherhood, love, or thoughts of well-being.  There is only a void where focus of action is the only thing that is allowed to exists.  In martial arts that action is physically fighting.  In meditation that action is control of self, sometimes it's breathing, sometimes it's moving energy.  Both should be a switch that turns on and off as needed.


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## Danny T (Feb 8, 2018)

I say; Depending on the situation...I'm better than some and no so much compared to others. I'm still working on it but have survived quite well so far.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 9, 2018)

I'm currently weighing in around 190 pounds. Add 25% and that's 237.5 pounds. I've sparred and dominated a number of guys that big or bigger.

I'm 53 now and I was never that athletic when I was younger, so most of my sparring partners have _at least_ a 25% advantage in general fitness. Many of them who are my size or smaller have a strength advantage of _more_ than 25%. Some of my sparring partners have a strength advantage of 50-100% or even more (MMA fighters, wrestlers, former strongman competitor, manual laborers, natural athletes).

Based on my experience in grappling/boxing/kickboxing/MMA sparring with these guys, I'd say I have a substantial advantage in a fair one-one-one unarmed fight with most untrained opponents who only have a 25% advantage in size, strength, and fitness.

Give that opponent some good training and/or fight experience, and the gap narrows. If they have natural talent and a good work ethic, then some of these guys are able to catch up to or surpass me within 4-5 years. (If they have less talent, then it will take longer - sometimes much longer. Sometimes they never catch up despite their physical advantage.)

If their advantage in physical attributes is greater than 25%, then they need less training to even the odds. I've sparred guys in the 280-300 pound range that I was able to beat because they were beginners. Give them some training and I start working hard to just survive. I did some Judo randori recently with a guy half my age who was a former wrestler, college football player, and strongman competitor. I'd say he had at least a 100% strength advantage - possibly more. He had only been doing Judo for a few months, but it took all my skill just to keep it an even match. (At least I was able to keep it even. One of his other randori partners got a concussion from being thrown on his head.) Give that guy another year of experience and he's going to be a monster.

Of course, this is mostly hypothetical when it comes to a self-defense situation. If a potential attacker is alone and unarmed, then the vast majority of the time I will be able to avoid, defuse, or walk away from the situation. I have no interest in the monkey dance. In contrast, predators look for some form of overwhelming advantage - surprise, size, weapons, numbers - so they don't have to risk anything resembling a fair fight. The question specifies no weapons or numbers. I'm big enough so that most potential attackers won't count on their size for an automatic win - even if they are 25% bigger. Surprise is still an option. I've learned enough about awareness so as not to be the easiest target for a solo ambush, but it could still happen. If I get KO'd in the first shot, then obviously my skills won't save me. If I'm only stunned - I have enough experience with that to think I have a good chance of surviving long enough to recover my wits and come back even against a stronger attacker. Still, a lot depends on how devastating the initial surprise attack is.


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## wab25 (Feb 9, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> It's my opinion that a lot of today's martial arts training focuses too much on "Zen." For many it's all about being peaceful and not fighting.
> 
> My perception of zen is totally different. To me zen is less about peaceful as in peace, and more about the ability to control one's self. I accept the "darkness" of brutality and I understand that the ability to be brutal does not extinguish the ability to be kind. In my opinion Martial Arts should be all about learning how to manage that brutality vs trying to be peaceful. The very nature of Martial Arts Techniques is about brutality, to act without thought of action. To learn how to disconnect motion and only focus on the brutal action that must be done. The very nature of Martial Arts training shows us how to turn the "brutality switch" on and off. Martial Arts was never created to be peaceful. Yet for some reason, many schools train in brutal techniques and claim to be only for peace. To me that is the biggest denial and imbalance that one could do to themselves in the context of training for self-defense.
> 
> Brutality should be void of emotion. It should be something that we can turn on and turn off at will. Emotions tend to cloud actions and makes it more difficult to control one's own brutality. Meditation works in the same way. Meditation should be void of emotions, only the action of meditation matters. There is no brotherhood, love, or thoughts of well-being. There is only a void where focus of action is the only thing that is allowed to exists. In martial arts that action is physically fighting. In meditation that action is control of self, sometimes it's breathing, sometimes it's moving energy. Both should be a switch that turns on and off as needed.


Just to toss out another view, this one from Jigoro Kano (Kanō Jigorō - Wikipedia):


> In 1915, Kanō gave this definition to judo:[29]
> 
> “ Judo is the way of the highest or most efficient use of both physical and mental energy. Through training in the attack and defence techniques of judo, the practitioner nurtures their physical and mental strength, and gradually embodies the essence of the Way of Judo. Thus, the ultimate objective of Judo discipline is to be utilized as a means to self-perfection, and thenceforth to make a positive contribution to society. ”
> In 1918, Kanō added:[30]
> ...


He seems to think there is more to Judo than just the brutality aspect. I note that he says the brutality aspect (he calls it becoming strong and able to defeat opponents) is a necessary part of it.


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## marques (Feb 9, 2018)

If someone is untrained, big and strong, it doesn’t look that bad.
If someone is deceptive and clever, I will be in trouble without knowing...


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...


Just a preface to my reply - you've asked two different questions, one in the title of the thread and one in the OP. I assume the OP version is what you're looking for, so I'll answer that. If you want the answer about the art, let me know and I'll toss it in, as well.

I have pretty good confidence that I can handle the greater strength and fitness of an untrained person. I've handled (in limited circumstances) significant differences in reach, weight, and strength against less-trained (than me) people, even in areas where my training is relatively thin (groundwork, for instance). There are areas where I know I am more exposed. A BJJ blue belt will likely give me trouble if he gets me to the ground and I'm not in side mount. With my limitations in my feet, I simply don't have opportunities to resist in some of the ways I once could have, even as my skill improves there.

If I end up in a prologned encounter, I'm in trouble. I'm in significantly worse shape than I was a year ago, after a series of injuries. I'm building back up, but slowly, and haven't yet been able to get back to any level of running (the only cardio I've ever found not tedious, long-term).

Now let's add in the exceptions (which I suggest you probably are, from past discussions). I'm talking about the folks with higher levels of personal aggression in fighting, who have gotten some experience (though not necessarily training), and have good coordination and power without training. Those folks are equivalent of someone much more trained than themselves, as part of their natural advantage. If they also keep quite fit, they add acquired advantages.

Some of this is supposition on my part. In training (even in sparring) my aggression level is low. I simply don't play a highly aggressive game except when acting as the "attacker" in drills. I know from experience that I'm considerably more aggressive in actual altercations, but I don't know how that translates against someone with high aggression - does it counter their natural advantage enough? I don't know. Some of my training is to take advantage of someone being overly aggressive in their attacks (using a similar principle to counter-punching in boxing, I think), so that tool is part of my prep for someone who is significantly more aggressive.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> so a line backer then?
> 
> i said bigger rather than taller, but I'm 6'1 and two hundred pounds, and found myself in a situation with some one who was 6"8 and two fifty pounds, his calve were bigger than my thighs, so bigger is quite feasible even if your quite big yourself,
> 
> 300lbs steroid pumping monsters with huge necks are at at all un common round her


The highly muscled guys have presented fewer challenges than the ones with functional strength (developed from regular activity, rather than bodybuilding).


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> that to a large part comes under experiance and is an intrinsic part of your ma learning, Surely ! but yes, if your re going to freeze or other wise be overwhelmed then size strength and ma go out of the window, and you could be beaten up by a by a 80 lb 80 year old using a walking frame.


This is an area where "easy" training doesn't equip for defensive use. A guy who's been in a few fights will be much better prepared for the violence (and less likely to cave under it) than someone who's had a few years of soft sparring.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> yes, but that isn't the most common way it goes down, unless its Robery, sexual a phyco or a serious grudge, most confrontations have a bone of contention,a discussion on who will do what to who and who's army they will use, before,blows are exchanged, which clearly gives,an opportunity to leave, but also rather removes the element  of surprise . Even with the first lot, there may be " warning" if only by the situation location


Those confrontations are the ones easiest to keep from turning physical.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

Kababayan said:


> My comfort zone did not include drunken sucker punches, gun in my face, knife hidden in a sleeve, guy on drugs, active shooter, etc.


If anyone has those in their comfort zone, they need some new comforts.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> It's my opinion that a lot of today's martial arts training focuses too much on "Zen." For many it's all about being peaceful and not fighting.


I think a message got lost along the way (at least, I hope that's what happened).

MA (those that have a real fight/defense/combat focus) should help develop necessarily brutal tools for fighting, and also help develop a more peaceful approach to life. I can't speak to how yin/yang and related concepts are truly viewed in Asian cultures, but this is the yin/yang of MA to me. I used to have a bit of violence that simmered under the surface, and only popped out when I was really angry at someone or very frustrated. It wasn't useful for fighting, because it didn't show up in response to fear or surprise. MA practice - and the physical outlet it provided - helped me control that. But not because what I train is peaceful - I don't train to defend peaceably. I train to do controlled violence upon someone who is trying to do violence upon me.


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## ChaiTeaTaiChi (Feb 9, 2018)

I feel very comfortable with 14 years of martial arts with a focus on self defense.
I am slowly bringing my students up, but most are seeking health benefits over martial study.



jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...


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## Martial D (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...



I say I have no faith at all in my style(s) and art(s) other than to be what they are;tools and ideas. I do however have confidence in my training, in my body to be strong and quick and in my muscle memory to react to things without having to think about them. In this, my art/style(s) are just one of many components.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 9, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> I think a message got lost along the way (at least, I hope that's what happened).
> 
> MA (those that have a real fight/defense/combat focus) should help develop necessarily brutal tools for fighting, and also help develop a more peaceful approach to life. I can't speak to how yin/yang and related concepts are truly viewed in Asian cultures, but this is the yin/yang of MA to me. I used to have a bit of violence that simmered under the surface, and only popped out when I was really angry at someone or very frustrated. It wasn't useful for fighting, because it didn't show up in response to fear or surprise. MA practice - and the physical outlet it provided - helped me control that. But not because what I train is peaceful - I don't train to defend peaceably. I train to do controlled violence upon someone who is trying to do violence upon me.


Your example is how I think zen should be as well as Yin/Yang.  It's a balance and not a removal of Violence.  Your original violence is still with you.  It's just separate from your anger and frustration .


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## Brian R. VanCise (Feb 9, 2018)

Buka said:


> I'm good. Still have my lunch money and everything.


\

Love it Buka!  you and I are all set! No worries.


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## Anarax (Feb 9, 2018)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...



Though I'm a little unclear on the 25% condition, I think I understand what you mean. Someone who essentially has more strength and mass than we do. In that case, yes I feel confident I can defend myself against a larger, stronger yet untrained opponent. 

The basic technical skills of having a proper stance, covering in basic guards and knowing how to strike and where are huge game changers. 

Honestly, I think what really changes it is the psychological dynamics of fighting. Flinching, adrenaline dumps and not being conditioned to fight overall is what I've seen breaks people. I've seen numerous sparring sessions with new people that haven't had any martial arts training before breakdown after getting hit. Not being able to deal with pain is also a significant factor in fights. You can be the best technical fighter in the world, but if you get hit hard and can't push through the pain your technical skills won't save you. 

Some of this is also based on the situational circumstances. For example; your average person will probably not feel a strong urge to fight someone if they were to sneeze loudly in a movie theater. However; a 90 pound mother will fight tooth and nail if someone is trying to harm her child. Essentially your desire to fight is usually relative to the reason and context of that actual fight. However; the fighter conditioning stills plays a substantial factor into the outcome as well.


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## Buka (Feb 10, 2018)

Big guys, small guys, fast guys, crazy guys, untrained guys.......I've never met anyone yet who was easy to fight. So, to me, size might matter in the physics of things, but that's about it. We don't get to pick who we will defend against. We just try to defeat the suckers. 

Here's hoping to staying lucky.


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## TMA17 (Feb 10, 2018)

I'm 6'1" 170 lbs.  I've always relied on speed and agility in the sports I played.  I have no MA background other then shadow boxing, hitting the heavy bag, light sparring and 3 months of WC.  I've always been pretty athletic and coordinated, but have only been in one fight my entire life.

My kung fu would be boxing as that is the only art so to speak I've practice for an extensive amount of time, albeit non professionally.  Size doesn't always matter, however if there are two equally trained and skilled individuals, the favorite would likely be the bigger/stronger individual.  I've seen many big dudes that are extremely slow and sloppy/uncoordinated.  I've seen some that are not.

You raised a good question.  If I continue to study WC, I foresee it taking me a few  years (1-3 in private lessons) to be comfortable using it in a real street fight situation.  Right now I'd resort to what I know (boxing). 

I am not taking WC strictly for self-defense purposes, although that is one thing I hope to gain from it.  I do question it's effectiveness as an art regularly as you can probably tell by the questions and posts.


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## TMA17 (Feb 10, 2018)

Martial D said:


> I say I have no faith at all in my style(s) and art(s) other than to be what they are;tools and ideas. I do however have confidence in my training, in my body to be strong and quick and in my muscle memory to react to things without having to think about them. In this, my art/style(s) are just one of many components.



I think that's great personally and sort of what WC can offer someone.


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## Acronym (Dec 18, 2020)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...



I thought about this a lot. I would say around 70% confident on average. But it would be a lot lower if I didn't have some athletic advantages to begin with.


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## drop bear (Dec 18, 2020)

Yeah I have dropped bigger fitter guys. Which as I get older is pretty much everyone.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Dec 19, 2020)

Christ this was a neco, but as it has been necroed.   Confidence is half the fight so best be confident in it because if you arent you probbly are going to loose irrespective to anything else.


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## Acronym (Dec 19, 2020)

Rat said:


> Christ this was a neco, but as it has been necroed.



Does this question have an expiration date?


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 19, 2020)

Acronym said:


> Does this question have an expiration date?


Generally speaking, folks don't reply to old threads, as the folks they reply to (and others involved in that thread) may no longer be around. Instead, it's usually better to start a new thread.

That said, this is far from the oldest thread to be necro'd on this site.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Dec 19, 2020)

Acronym said:


> Does this question have an expiration date?


Some people complain about it for no real reason-the only reason I get is if you're replying to someone who is no longer on the site. But as most of the original posters are still here, and you weren't asking any of them anything directly, it really doesn't matter.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .



Not trying to be difficult just breaking apart for discussion and to keep your complete post, and not take something out of context. 


Assumptions:
1) I am relatively healthy at the time
2) I am not taken out with sniper precision from a distance, and or in close combat.



jobo said:


> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone,


From Past Experiences I am fairly confident I could survive. which is the first step in standing up. 




jobo said:


> untrained in ma,


Untrained in the MA, and no training at all are different. 
Some used to say HS and collegiate wrestling were not considered a MA. 
There are those that have trained for the one really good sucker punch, and follow up one on their heels or down. 
Does this count as no training or untrained? 

If 0% training in anything then yes I am confident. Even with the size discussion below. 
If some non-Traditional or Modern MA then I still feel confident. 




jobo said:


> alone



Alone, allows for posturing and dancing and moving around. Assuming their is intent on both sides it is almost a duel. 
That being said, I have never had a duel. There was always the risk of multiple and or there were multiple opponents. 



jobo said:


> and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur,



I was younger, 6'3" and about 260 and not the greatest 260 shape. I faced guys 6'8" and taller and over 300 lbs. By myself, in groups, on one side or both. 




jobo said:


> if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?


Today, at 53, most people will be younger, who will want to have a confrontation with me. Not always, 
I am overweight from my motorcycle hitting a woman who ran the red light and then never stopped. 
It has been three years and the pain is the best it has been, and I did have some weight off, but one of the meds put on 45 lbs in 30 days on a starvation diet. 
Stopped the med, and still working on loosing the weight yet again. 

Do I think I could still take an NBA player? Yes I do. 
Now before, people get upset, stop and consider the following. Every fighter who is about to step into the ring believes they are going to win. Or they would not 
step into the ring. This can be considered confidence , and sometimes over confidence. Yet, without either, you need to make sure you are never near the ring. 




jobo said:


> I've been thinking about this In my own context, and I'm really not sure that my skills are good enough to cope, but I'm a novice compared to many on here who are experts.
> 
> in that i also consider people in my group, who are much more skilled than i, who i am pretty sure ( through sparing)i can knock into next week with out breaking a,sweat, based just on my physical advantages as above
> 
> so, what say you?



You mention your skills are not good enough.
What are your goals?
To be the top athlete in your weight class in combat? 
Or to go home every night?

If it is to go home, then your skills may need to change, in what you practice every day. 
1) Awareness - be aware of your surroundings. 
2) Treat your gas tank like it is half the size it is. When you get near half, assume it is empty, and fil it up. This allows you to drive through bad parts of town or go to the next exit while travelling and worried about the environment. 
3) Avoid areas where confrontation occurs. Stay out of bars while drunk. If you go with friends or family, be the sober one and pay attention. 
Stay out of "THAT GAS STATION" we all know about that has those one guys that like to start trouble. 
4) Smile and verbal insults, and keep going. 

Note: I am not perfect and still work on these simple and other tasks. So no criticism meant to you or anyone else.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 22, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Generally speaking, folks don't reply to old threads, as the folks they reply to (and others involved in that thread) may no longer be around. Instead, it's usually better to start a new thread.
> 
> That said, this is far from the oldest thread to be necro'd on this site.



My Apologies. I came into this thread at the first post, and had not read the post by the staff. 
I did not mean any disrespect.


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 22, 2020)

Rich Parsons said:


> My Apologies. I came into this thread at the first post, and had not read the post by the staff.
> I did not mean any disrespect.


Not an issue. Especially since both the OP and most of the people who replied are still active on the site. 

Necro-ing a thread isn’t against the rules, it’s just kind of pointless when someone asks “which of these two schools should I send my kid to?” and someone comes in with a reply 10 years later.


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 22, 2020)

Since this happens on an unfortunately far too often basis, I'm quite confident.


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## donald1 (Dec 22, 2020)

It feels weird saying I've been in karate over 10 years. I know there's tons of people who've practiced martial arts way longer than that, but I can still hardly believe ive been in it this long. I've never been in a actual self defense situation. I should be confident, and to a degree I am. However one thing stopping me from saying that I'm completely confident in my abilities is my lack of proof. I've never actually defended myself In a real life scenario. I think I'll be fine, but part of me is skeptical.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 23, 2020)

Rich Parsons said:


> My Apologies. I came into this thread at the first post, and had not read the post by the staff.
> I did not mean any disrespect.


No worries. As I said, this is far from the oldest thread to be necro'd. It's usually more an issue for the poster, who is hoping to get replies from folks who are no longer active.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 23, 2020)

donald1 said:


> It feels weird saying I've been in karate over 10 years. I know there's tons of people who've practiced martial arts way longer than that, but I can still hardly believe ive been in it this long. I've never been in a actual self defense situation. I should be confident, and to a degree I am. However one thing stopping me from saying that I'm completely confident in my abilities is my lack of proof. I've never actually defended myself In a real life scenario. I think I'll be fine, but part of me is skeptical.


That's a healthy doubt. If you want to gather some information, get around some willing folks and try each other under various rules. Competitions are an easy way to do this, though you'll generally be testing yourself against folks who specialize in the specific circumstances of the competition (testing your ground defense against ground grapplers, which may not be the standard you're working to).


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## jobo (Dec 23, 2020)

Rich Parsons said:


> Not trying to be difficult just breaking apart for discussion and to keep your complete post, and not take something out of context.
> 
> 
> Assumptions:
> ...


i didnt say my skills wernt good enough, i said they were less than my contemporaries,  certainly on a theoretic,  text book ir aesthetic  basis.


however  in praxtice with them, if i cant throw them in the designated manner,  through lack of skill, i pick them up and smash them into the mat, which is general more effective than the result of doibg it properly

many years ago i severely annoyed my jujutsu instuctor by doing just that, whilst he was demonstraighting how poor my throwing tecnuque was, by saying " thats rubish,go on then try and throw me"

i was 25 then , im 61now, but the same seems to hold true, if i have a significant physical advantage, in either,  height, weight, reach or strengh or not uncomnonly all 4, i win.

now clearly the people this happens with are not elite ma, where the outcome would be very different,  but they are much i sugest reprsebtaive of most hobby ma, coz thats what they are


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## dvcochran (Dec 23, 2020)

donald1 said:


> It feels weird saying I've been in karate over 10 years. I know there's tons of people who've practiced martial arts way longer than that, but I can still hardly believe ive been in it this long. I've never been in a actual self defense situation. I should be confident, and to a degree I am. However one thing stopping me from saying that I'm completely confident in my abilities is my lack of proof. I've never actually defended myself In a real life scenario. I think I'll be fine, but part of me is skeptical.



That is a very heads up, conscious perspective. It spurs the never ending debate about what is enough resistance in regular training to constitute 'enough' to be proficient. 
@gpseymour and possibly others mentioned competition. I feel this is the best and easiest place to start to answer the question. I also feel it is totally different for each person. How much and to what degree this question is answered may not be at all important so some and imminently important to others. 
It is a rabbit trail that can run a very long way for some.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 23, 2020)

donald1 said:


> However one thing stopping me from saying that I'm completely confident in my abilities is my lack of proof. I've never actually defended myself In a real life scenario. I think I'll be fine, but part of me is skeptical.


Agree with you 100% there. If you have never knocked down anybody in your life, you truly don't know that your punch can knock anybody down. This is the weakness of the striking art.

In throwing art, if you have used single leg to take down 100 guys in your life, you know that the chance that you can take down the 101 guy by single leg will be high.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 23, 2020)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Agree with you 100% there. If you have never knocked down anybody in your life, you truly don't know that your punch can knock anybody down. This is the weakness of the striking art.
> 
> In throwing art, if you have used single leg to take down 100 guys in your life, you know that the chance that you can take down the 101 guy by single leg will be high.


Agreed, assuming they're actually trying to stop you. I can teach someone to do a throw well enough to actually throw someone in about 5 minutes. Give them a few hours with partners, and they'll easily throw others 100 times. Of course, for most people that's only true if the other guys are allowing the throw. This is where a resisting partner or opponent comes in. And most throws are safer to try against resistance (and to the point of actually throwing) than punches that can knock someone to the floor.

At the same time, punches are easier to learn to that point for a lot of folks, and less finicky under stress than some throws.


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## Ivan (Dec 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> we have discussed many times how effective ma may or may not be in a,self defence situation. With the,considered situation getting more and more extreme
> and accepting that lots of people do ma for many reasons not connected with self defence .
> 
> how confident are you, that your skills will stand up, if you were to find yourself attacked by someone, untrained in ma, alone and unarmed who fitter/ stronger/ bigger than yourself, say by a factor of 25% in each.with is probably a reasonable expectation of what might occur, if not 25% what advantage could you cope with?
> ...


As someone who has trained in many martial arts over a relatively short amount of time, I feel like a better question would be "how confident are you in your fighting ability?". For me, it depends on my self-esteem and mood. It varies from time to time, as I am sure everyone's does. It also depends on whether I have recently had my ego checked or humbled by a sparring partner 

My point is, that someone can be really comfortable using competitive WTF Taekwondo in a competition-type situation, but they might also realize that their style isn't the most optimal for self-defense and they might not feel confident in a dangerous, real-life scenario.


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## Ivan (Dec 23, 2020)

donald1 said:


> It feels weird saying I've been in karate over 10 years. I know there's tons of people who've practiced martial arts way longer than that, but I can still hardly believe ive been in it this long. I've never been in a actual self defense situation. I should be confident, and to a degree I am. However one thing stopping me from saying that I'm completely confident in my abilities is my lack of proof. I've never actually defended myself In a real life scenario. I think I'll be fine, but part of me is skeptical.


The doubt doesn't go away even after a couple of fights under your belt. I have been in plenty of situations in school and college that required me to use my knowledge, but even after handling myself, the doubt remains. Perhaps this is more a confidence or self-esteem issue, but I am not certain. Or perhaps stuff in school/college doesn't count.


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## dvcochran (Dec 23, 2020)

Ivan said:


> As someone who has trained in many martial arts over a relatively short amount of time, I feel like a better question would be "how confident are you in your fighting ability?". For me, it depends on my self-esteem and mood. It varies from time to time, as I am sure everyone's does. It also depends on whether I have recently had my ego checked or humbled by a sparring partner
> 
> My point is, that someone can be really comfortable using competitive WTF Taekwondo in a competition-type situation, but they might also realize that their style isn't the most optimal for self-defense and they might not feel confident in a dangerous, real-life scenario.


Your point is very valid. Everyone needs to intimately understand there is a difference in sparring (of any style) and fighting, even though the terms are often used interchangeably. 

I think I understand what you mean by mood. When I was in the circuit I was known for being a slow starter. Too often I did not 'wake up' and start fighting until I received pressure or a good lick. I am not an angry person by nature and sometimes I need something to turn on the 'switch'. 
When I played football in college it took me a while to figure out I would get too 'up' at the beginning of a game and run out of adrenalin and energy sometimes. I got better at controlling the peaks and being able to maintain a high level without burnout but really did not get a handle on in until I started MA's.


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## drop bear (Dec 24, 2020)

Ivan said:


> As someone who has trained in many martial arts over a relatively short amount of time, I feel like a better question would be "how confident are you in your fighting ability?". For me, it depends on my self-esteem and mood. It varies from time to time, as I am sure everyone's does. It also depends on whether I have recently had my ego checked or humbled by a sparring partner
> 
> My point is, that someone can be really comfortable using competitive WTF Taekwondo in a competition-type situation, but they might also realize that their style isn't the most optimal for self-defense and they might not feel confident in a dangerous, real-life scenario.


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## jobo (Dec 24, 2020)

Ivan said:


> The doubt doesn't go away even after a couple of fights under your belt. I have been in plenty of situations in school and college that required me to use my knowledge, but even after handling myself, the doubt remains. Perhaps this is more a confidence or self-esteem issue, but I am not certain. Or perhaps stuff in school/college doesn't count.


it sorts of counts, it establishes were tou are in the pecking order of your contemporary, you can make a judgement on if you can take can of yourself physicaly and you have toughness to do so, you cant and never can ptedict the out come of the next fight, but can have a stab that the number of people who can walk right through you are less than the ones  that you can do like wise, if you pay particular attention to your ma skills  and physical conditioning you can reasonably make a judgement, that one has decreased and the other increased,  by admittly an unspecified but no less significant degree,


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## dvcochran (Dec 24, 2020)

drop bear said:


>


Cattle and love play. Now that is a pretty big swing.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 24, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Cattle and love play. Now that is a pretty big swing.


Maybe.


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## dvcochran (Dec 24, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Maybe.


Good point.
If you have ever watched cattle breed there is not too much 'play' involved.


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## Hanzou (Dec 29, 2020)

Well due to this stupid pandemic probably not as sharp as I used to be. Also I'm starting to get severe knee pain (Thanks HS Football!) so I think I'm seeing knee surgery in my near future. 

I think if some bum came at me I could still hold my own, but the knee thing worries me a bit. Not sure my kicks or guard play would be as effective as it needs to be if things go south. I'm going to need about 6 months of daily training to get back to where I think I need to be, and that aint happening till this pandemic is over.


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## jobo (Dec 29, 2020)

Hanzou said:


> Well due to this stupid pandemic probably not as sharp as I used to be. Also I'm starting to get severe knee pain (Thanks HS Football!) so I think I'm seeing knee surgery in my near future.
> 
> I think if some bum came at me I could still hold my own, but the knee thing worries me a bit. Not sure my kicks or guard play would be as effective as it needs to be if things go south. I'm going to need about 6 months of daily training to get back to where I think I need to be, and that aint happening till this pandemic is over.


yea, i think grappling arts are hit hardest by all this,,there really no way to practice at all if your buying in to the hype.

striker can at least go hit a bag

though a i have to say that people learnibg striking over zoom are being deprived of their time and if appkicable money under false pretences, i think it works as a community thing,  but really not a lot else, unless of course your under the impresion that kata and air shots have any great value?  but then from previous conversation it seems quite a few do 

on the otherhand, keeping your conditioning  if not yoyr skills up to standard is a very easy propostion under lock down, the problem i suspect is motivation,  i know its my issue as well


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## dvcochran (Dec 29, 2020)

jobo said:


> yea, i think grappling arts are hit hardest by all this,,there really no way to practice at all if your buying in to the hype.
> 
> striker can at least go hit a bag
> 
> ...



I think there is contradiction here. If you have been taught how to maintain your skills through shadow boxing and doing forms (original purpose) throughout you MA career this is what you will default to. They are excellent solo training tools. 
If a person is new to the craft this could be problematic because it lacks the critique and correction of a coach/instructor. Of course the same can be said of banging on a bag. It is a great conditioning tool but can also engrain some bad habits.


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## jobo (Dec 29, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> I think there is contradiction here. If you have been taught how to maintain your skills through shadow boxing and doing forms (original purpose) throughout you MA career this is what you will default to. They are excellent solo training tools.
> If a person is new to the craft this could be problematic because it lacks the critique and correction of a coach/instructor. Of course the same can be said of banging on a bag. It is a great conditioning tool but can also engrain some bad habits.


i dont think kata is without value, i also dont think it meets the simpicuty and immediacy of shadow boxing or that you can maibta8n your boxibg skills by shadow  boxing alone
its at best a warm up

kata is a training tool, but not one a lot of very effective  arts find necessary at all or dont take at all seriously if they do a bit.

non of which says it has no value, just solo kata as a training tool is largly teaching you how to do kata, which is then an open question of if that a good use of time or not

its bleed over to a actually hittiing things is very very debatable

but if thats all you have at the moment, then thats all you have, ir you could by a bag, its not that hard, , the point about bags ingraing bad habits,  is double for air shots, at least a bag gives you some feed back, even if the feed back is pain, you wont do that again in a hurry

my issue really is people takibg money iff you to teach you something, that has no great value, other than a way of keeping income comming in

lot of folk on here that were anti distance learning for very good reasons, now seem to think its a very good thing,  whilst ignoring the reasons why it isnt


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## KenpoMaster805 (Dec 29, 2020)

How confident Im in my Art? like one of the member said it depends on the situation and whose attacking me. I know that one day my Bro inlaw will attack me but if he does im ready.


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## stanly stud (Dec 29, 2020)

it´s not a question of how confident you are in any art..but yourself


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 29, 2020)

jobo said:


> yea, i think grappling arts are hit hardest by all this,,there really no way to practice at all if your buying in to the hype.
> 
> striker can at least go hit a bag
> 
> ...


If nothing else, it keeps people moving, lets them get some repetitions in with feedback from a coach. Not as useful as a live class, but far better than nothing, IMO.


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## stanly stud (Dec 29, 2020)

grappling is great but i was a Boxer in the Army and i can tell you that speed and staminia count. fitness. Sure a lot of BJJ guys will say they will take you to the ground but trust me if you can box you will end "most" fights quickly.


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## jobo (Dec 29, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> If nothing else, it keeps people moving, lets them get some repetitions in with feedback from a coach. Not as useful as a live class, but far better than nothing, IMO.


?? how much better than nothing? 10 times better than nothing, thats eer nothing and nothing isnt the only alternate option


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 29, 2020)

jobo said:


> ?? how much better than nothing? 10 times better than nothing, thats eer nothing and nothing isnt the only alternate option


Why are you looking for an argument?


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## jobo (Dec 30, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> Why are you looking for an argument?


im looking for qualification of your point,  you quoted me to disagree,  

how much better than nothing is it, if your doibg something is it still better than that


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 30, 2020)

jobo said:


> im looking for qualification of your point,  you quoted me to disagree,
> 
> how much better than nothing is it, if your doibg something is it still better than that


I don't know how much better than nothing. Somewhat better. How's that? I wasn't so much disagreeing as giving my thoughts on the value provided. Is it the same value as an in-person class? That's up to the person taking the class. In the current context, they may find the monetary value the same.


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## jobo (Dec 30, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> I don't know how much better than nothing. Somewhat better. How's that? I wasn't so much disagreeing as giving my thoughts on the value provided. Is it the same value as an in-person class? That's up to the person taking the class. In the current context, they may find the monetary value the same.


is some what more or less than " lots" which was your first stab at it.
if your quoting  me to contradict, sorry express a contary opinion,  at least take the trouble to have considet your  opinion,  beyond " lots" and " some what"

beyond community,  which has value, i consider it has a value that apromimate to nothing, at a point when you cant even do compliant partner drills, then what exactly are you learning?

i suspect for novices it has a value less than nothing, lets say minus 10, they will be better off not doing  it at all


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 30, 2020)

jobo said:


> is some what more or less than " lots" which was your first stab at it.
> if your quoting  me to contradict, sorry express a contary opinion,  at least take the trouble to have considet your  opinion,  beyond " lots" and " some what"
> 
> beyond community,  which has value, i consider it has a value that apromimate to nothing, at a point when you cant even do compliant partner drills, then what exactly are you learning?
> ...


Maybe re-read my post. I didn't say "lots". I said "far". Which is a reasonably vague term, and not one I find at odds with "somewhat", which is also vague.

Because the level of value is also pretty vague, and will vary depending what someone wants (and gets) from the experience.

If you don't understand the value of working movement, I can't help you.

EDIT: I agree the value goes down for the novice.


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## _Simon_ (Dec 30, 2020)

jobo said:


> beyond community,  which has value, i consider it has...



By consider... do you mean reflect upon? Ponder? Evaluate? Look at? Think on? Support? Mull over?

I wait for you to qualify your statement.... as you have now put it out there......


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## jobo (Dec 31, 2020)

_Simon_ said:


> By consider... do you mean reflect upon? Ponder? Evaluate? Look at? Think on? Support? Mull over?
> 
> I wait for you to qualify your statement.... as you have now put it out there......


all of those , but support, i havent supported it


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## Hanshi (Dec 31, 2020)

This is not a simple question, IMHO.  Most everybody is larger, stronger (but likely not as fast) than I am.  I will not fight and will not "defend" myself as long as I know what's about to happen and see that it's immanent.  Without getting into details I'll say that I can't physically get around that well any longer.  I have learned to be a "dirty" fighter and to not wait until the attack is initiated; I want to be the one who is sneaky and inflicts damage that stops any chance of further conflict.  I also am armed with a cane when I leave the house and also carry at least one knife.  I've been disabled for well over a decade and can't afford to take any chances.  But that's just my situation and everyone must adapt to their physical situation in such instances.


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## stanly stud (Dec 31, 2020)

Hanshi said:


> This is not a simple question, IMHO.  Most everybody is larger, stronger (but likely not as fast) than I am.  I will not fight and will not "defend" myself as long as I know what's about to happen and see that it's immanent.  Without getting into details I'll say that I can't physically get around that well any longer.  I have learned to be a "dirty" fighter and to not wait until the attack is initiated; I want to be the one who is sneaky and inflicts damage that stops any chance of further conflict.  I also am armed with a cane when I leave the house and also carry at least one knife.  I've been disabled for well over a decade and can't afford to take any chances.  But that's just my situation and everyone must adapt to their physical situation in such instances.


i carry a telescopic baton a compact one when i go running at night. I can use my fists but if you´re against a blade all the dojo crap goes out the window. Even a moron can stab someone. I recommend this company where i got mine.


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## stanly stud (Dec 31, 2020)

compact is hardened & perfect to carry & hide.
Compact expandable baton (euro-security.info)


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 2, 2021)

stanly stud said:


> i carry a telescopic baton a compact one when i go running at night. I can use my fists but if you´re against a blade all the dojo crap goes out the window. Even a moron can stab someone. I recommend this company where i got mine.


In a lot of areas, those will be illegal for personal carry.


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## stanly stud (Jan 2, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> In a lot of areas, those will be illegal for personal carry.


it is here but i will worry about that later on when i am still alive.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jan 2, 2021)

stanly stud said:


> it is here but i will worry about that later on when i am still alive.


If I felt my threat was that high, I'd purposely carry something quite legal - maybe a heavy walking stick/cane.


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