# Protective Tactics 101



## PhotonGuy (May 9, 2016)

I found this system that teaches all sorts of protective tactics. Im wondering if its any good and if its worth investing in. The website is Don Johnson’s Protective Tactics 101


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## Flatfish (May 9, 2016)

I find it curious that it costs nearly $3000 bucks and the qualifications of Don are not listed anywhere. But maybe someone else knows this guy.


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## Flatfish (May 9, 2016)

Here is another website by the same guy. It seems he is quite the entrepreneur:
About Don


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## Bill Mattocks (May 9, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> I found this system that teaches all sorts of protective tactics. Im wondering if its any good and if its worth investing in. The website is Don Johnson’s Protective Tactics 101



All I can do is offer personal opinion.

_"Protect yourself and your loved ones with a simple, easy to use, step by step, abc, 123, solution."_​
In my opinion, there is no such thing.  People will believe what they wish.


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## oftheherd1 (May 9, 2016)

There is a sales tactic where you get glowing endorsements, but don't really demonstrate any product.  You then expect those who provide their email more likely to consummate the sale, or at least have already convinced themselves of the need for the product.  Those are easier to manipulate.  If not, well you still have their email to sell or use for your own bombardment of sales pitches.

Even so, he may be legitimate in all respects.  But I am very surprised that no MA moves are made to show the superiority of his system.

PhotonGuy - have you found your MA not valuable?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 9, 2016)

Well, he's been charged with felonies in the past about fraud, so that's not the best sign.
Former realtor Don Johnson charged with 14 felonies


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## Tony Dismukes (May 9, 2016)

The linked website said:
			
		

> Don is a nationally and internationally recognized speaker who has conducted hundreds of presentations.


The only mention of any qualifications on the site is the fact that he's made speeches. He doesn't even specify what the topic(s) of these "presentations" might have been.

BTW - that same page displays logos of a bunch of major media organizations, doubtless to create the impression that he has appeared on or been endorsed by those media. However, nothing on the site would indicate that this is actually the case.



			
				The linked website said:
			
		

> In “The One Move that Will Save Your Life” Don introduces his most important, proprietary and unique TACTIC, based on two universal success principals.  This Tactic will not only save your life in the event of a physical assault, it will increase your Faith, improve your Health, better your Relationships, create Financial Freedom, and make you Happy, Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise.



This magical TACTIC will also allow you to fly, fart hundred dollar bills, and date the movie star or stars of your choice. He just ran out of room to mention those features.


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## Buka (May 9, 2016)

However, if you're looking to purchase the Brooklyn Bridge.....he's your guy.


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## jks9199 (May 9, 2016)

Let's see...  He's a motivational speaker, mentor... his "protective tactics" will change your life in just 2 days, for just shy of $3000.  

But he doesn't explain his qualifications, was using a holster with no apparent retention and a red gun (based on posts above, can he have a gun? Inquiring minds want to know), and promises to kick anyone out who he feels is "not a force for good."  Or, y'know, like is in danger of making him look less impressive, maybe?

I would save your money.  Too bad I can't get the time it's taken to review this back somehow...


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## JowGaWolf (May 9, 2016)

Flatfish said:


> I find it curious that it costs nearly $3000 bucks and the qualifications of Don are not listed anywhere. But maybe someone else knows this guy.


the only Don Johnson I know of is the one from the old TV series Miami Vice.


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## JowGaWolf (May 9, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> fart hundred dollar bills, and date the movie star or stars of your choice.


 In my best Peter Griffin voice.  hmmm. Yes... Go on.  tell me more about this magical farting.


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## PhotonGuy (May 9, 2016)

$3000 is a bit much but I've met Don and I did attend one of his workshops and I learned some interesting stuff, different than anything I've learned elsewhere. He does wear a real gun during his workshops and when he's at his booth at an expo but for any kind of drill work he uses the red gun for obvious reasons. From some of the posts here and from some of the links provided he does sound a bit fishy but he still might teach some useful stuff. I couldn't see myself spending $3000 for the two day workshop but I still like to see his speeches and demonstrations at the expos.


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## PhotonGuy (May 9, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> PhotonGuy - have you found your MA not valuable?


Of course I find my MA valuable but I can always learn more. And if you ask me its always good, after you've reached a certain level of proficiency in your primary art to explore other arts and styles and see what you can learn from them.


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## Tez3 (May 9, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> I've met Don and I did attend one of his workshops



That explains a lot.


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## JowGaWolf (May 9, 2016)

Just saw the some of his videos on facebook.  Not feeling it.  It's more for a person who doesn't want to take the time to train in a Martial arts, MMA, BJJ or whatever.  Based on what I saw if you are taking your martial art seriously as a self defense and are training it as a self defense, then the class will be a waste of time and money.  If you don't want to learn a Martial art or fighting system then the question would be can you truly learn and be conditioned enough to utilize what is being taught in his seminar.

I also don't like the self defense classes that show you what to do when a gun is pointed and resting on your head.  I've had a gun pointed to my head twice in my life time and at no time was the gun making contact with my head.  People who would point a gun at your head understand distance and the value of not getting too close where you can make a grab for the gun.

Pictures below are random pictures and not of the class.
This stuff is made for the movies it rarely happens on the street.  A gun this close is more likely to happen in a hostage situation which at that time the police are there.





This is what most people get when it happens


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## lklawson (May 10, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> I found this system that teaches all sorts of protective tactics. Im wondering if its any good and if its worth investing in. The website is Don Johnson’s Protective Tactics 101


Does it include a Bren Ten?






Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## MI_martialist (May 10, 2016)

I had to stop listening 5 seconds into the video on the main website page.  No thank you!  I have enough snake oil.


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## JowGaWolf (May 10, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> I had to stop listening 5 seconds into the video on the main website page.  No thank you!  I have enough snake oil.


I couldn't view the main website because my anti-virus program classifies it as a risky site that engages in suspicious behavior.  I did watch some of the videos of them in action on vimeo and I actually like the attack scenarios which is a good idea.  The videos are very telling on how important it is to know how to do basic kicks and punches. Many of them lacked those skill sets.  The attacker was good, he threw them down hard on the ground and took some good hard swings at people. I didn't like when he gave up. He just kind of stopped attacking when he saw that he was too much for the student.

I saw one guy in there but most appear to be women. The guy didn't appear to know how to throw a proper punch or kick.

I bet in the waiver they have "simulated sexual assault"  In this video you'll see the lady on the ground and it's difficult not to think that a BJJ or judo class would be more appropriate to deal with the scenario.  For them they should either be taught BJJ or judo so they can properly learn how to deal with the mount or they should do everything they can to avoid someone mounting them. Especially if the attacker is significantly larger than victim. 





This is probably the most telling. Things like turning the back are basic mistakes that beginners make which are often corrected in a martial arts class, but I don't hear it being corrected here.  You can also see the fear they have even though it's a demo.  A real attacker will only be encouraged by the fear that was displayed. It's one thing to be afraid and not let the attacker know it. It's something totally different when fear just takes control and spills out.






The truth about physical self-defense is that it's a fight. So it only makes sense to me that training to fight would be the best path to learning how to do that part of the self defense.


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## PhotonGuy (May 10, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The truth about physical self-defense is that it's a fight. So it only makes sense to me that training to fight would be the best path to learning how to do that part of the self defense.



You're partially right, but its also important to know that there is a big difference between sport fighting or fighting in a controlled environment vs a real self defense situation.


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## JowGaWolf (May 10, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> You're partially right, but its also important to know that there is a big difference between sport fighting or fighting in a controlled environment vs a real self defense situation.


Not really.  You have to be in some kind of cardio vascular and muscular shape to do all 3 of those.  Everyday people will tell you that they are out of shape for running, out of shape for tennis, out of shape for walking up stairs and out of shape for Martial Arts. Yet for some reason they can take a self-defense class and or watch a self-defense video and assume that they are in shape for physically fighting off an attacker.  The option to run away only exist if you are fit enough to do it, and even then it's no guarantee that you'll outrun your attacker.  Especially after you have been on the ground.

All 3 examples that you gave require effective striking, kicking, and grappling release.  People who don't practice a sport don't make assumptions that they will be good in it.  They will actually tell you that they aren't good in a sport because they don't train in it.  However,  many people who take a self-defense class make the assumption that a 1 week or 3 month course in self-defense is enough practice to be good enough to physically fight off an attacker with effective punches, effective kicks, and effective escapes.

Sports fighting is friendlier in comparison to an all out attack from some guy in the street that has the goal of doing the worse to you.  In a sporting fight you can get knocked out in a fight and that will stop any additional physical assault on you. You can get knocked out by an attacker in a self-defense situation but that doesn't mean he or she will stop assaulting you.  It doesn't mean that the attacker will walk away and leave you alone.

Here's a video that shows a boyfriend beating up his girlfriend.  It's too far away to be graphic as in seeing the face actually being hit but you can see all of the elements that I usually talk about when discussing self-defense.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1209022/Horrifying-CCTV-girl-beaten-pulp-thug-boyfriend.html


1. Running doesn't always work

2. Being on the ground is a bad place to be.  If you think you are going to be hopeless on the ground then take BJJ or Judo or some kind of fighting grappling system
3. Kicks and punches have to be effective in order to be useful so learn how to do them correctly.  Anything else is just hoping for a lucky strike.




4. You don't always have to outrun your attacker.  As long as you can run fast enough to get something in between the attacker and yourself, this will increase your chances of escape and or survival
5. If you are in a physical fight then it means all non-physical self-defense methods have failed
6. Showing fear emboldens the attacker.  It's o.k. to be afraid and have fear, but you have to control it. Don't let run out of control because then it will show in the body language. This is the same reason why people say don't show fear to animals.  There was no way this guy could have physically defeated this bear, but his body language said something different. 




A person may not be able to beat up their attacker, but everything about their body language and voice should show "if you mess with me, then I'm going to tear you up regardless if I defeat you or not"  Animals understand this, not sure why many humans don't.  Animals bluff all the time to make the predators think twice about messing with them.  If I threaten to hit you and you run, then I know you are afraid.  If I threaten you and your tone and body language gives me the impression that you are going to fight "tooth and nail", then I'm less likely to physically mess with you.


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## Tez3 (May 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> However, many people who take a self-defense class make the assumption that a 1 week or 3 month course in self-defense is enough practice to be good enough to physically fight off an attacker with effective punches, effective kicks, and effective escapes.



There's an old joke that we had where I worked, it was about a woman who took a 12 week self defence course which involved lots of fancy techniques like wrist locks, judo type moves etc for fighting off an attacker but when the day came much later that she was actually attacked she beat her attacker off with her umbrella.


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## drop bear (May 11, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> You're partially right, but its also important to know that there is a big difference between sport fighting or fighting in a controlled environment vs a real self defense situation.



A big difference would be that your basics punches and kicks suddenly don't work like you have trained them.

Eg. You kick blue steel in the groin and he dosent go down. Through the power of play acting.

A minor difference would be that your knees or elbows get a scrape that wouldn't happen on a mat.


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## Paul_D (May 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> The truth about physical self-defense is that it's a fight. So it only makes sense to me that training to fight would be the best path to learning how to do that part of the self defense.


That may be your truth, but my truth is that fighting and SD are two completely different things, and fighting is only what happens once your SD has failed.


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## Paul_D (May 11, 2016)

Flatfish said:


> I find it curious that it costs nearly $3000 bucks and the qualifications of Don are not listed anywhere. But maybe someone else knows this guy.


Cheaper to just let the mugger take your wallet.


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## JowGaWolf (May 11, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> That may be your truth, but my truth is that fighting and SD are two completely different things, and fighting is only what happens once your SD has failed.


You are welcomed to believe that.  If I walked over and started punching you in the face for no reason then you would be in a fight regardless of what you think. At that point you have 2 options.  To either physically defend yourself or take the punches.


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## Tez3 (May 11, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> You are welcomed to believe that.  If I walked over and started punching you in the face for no reason then you would be in a fight regardless of what you think. At that point you have 2 options.  To either physically defend yourself or take the punches.



Weeell, if you punched him once _properly_ he wouldn't be in a fight he'd be KO'd..............


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## JowGaWolf (May 11, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> There's an old joke that we had where I worked, it was about a woman who took a 12 week self defence course which involved lots of fancy techniques like wrist locks, judo type moves etc for fighting off an attacker but when the day came much later that she was actually attacked she beat her attacker off with her umbrella.


I guess that's why we always hear in martial arts "train until it becomes natural."  When the time comes to physically defend one's self, only the actions that feel natural are going to come out.


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## PhotonGuy (May 11, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> There's an old joke that we had where I worked, it was about a woman who took a 12 week self defence course which involved lots of fancy techniques like wrist locks, judo type moves etc for fighting off an attacker but when the day came much later that she was actually attacked she beat her attacker off with her umbrella.



That did really happen once in NYC. A woman took a self defense course, I don't know if it was 12 weeks, but then she was attacked in the city and she forgot everything she learned in the course and beat off her attacker with an umbrella she was carrying. She then reported it and she was charged with assault for beating the attacker off with her umbrella.


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## Tez3 (May 11, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> That did really happen once in NYC. A woman took a self defense course, I don't know if it was 12 weeks, but then she was attacked in the city and she forgot everything she learned in the course and beat off her attacker with an umbrella she was carrying. She then reported it and she was charged with assault for beating the attacker off with her umbrella.



I find it extremely unlikely that she was charged with assault when she was defending herself. The law doesn't usually work like that even at it's worst.


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## PhotonGuy (May 11, 2016)

The big difference between sport fighting and self defense fighting is that in sport fighting there's rules and the idea behind lots of the rules is to make the fight go on, to make the fight last so its not over too soon which would cause spectators to lose interest very quickly. People who watch fights want to see long fights. Take for instance boxing, its very restrictive in its rules. You only fight somebody in the same weight class as you.  Also, you can only hit with your glove incased hands and only to certain parts of the body, you can't hit below the belt. Now, lets say they didn't have any rules in boxing. Lets say you weren't put in a weight class and you could bite, elbow, knee, headbutt, and use any other dirty tactic or trick in the book. If they allowed that most boxing matches would be over way too soon and people would stop watching it. Now with all the rules in place boxing matches last longer, sometimes for many rounds, and thus it keeps the spectators interest. True, occasionally there are boxing matches that only last seconds but most of them last at least a round or more.


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## PhotonGuy (May 11, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I find it extremely unlikely that she was charged with assault when she was defending herself. The law doesn't usually work like that even at it's worst.



Ever been to NYC?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 11, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I find it extremely unlikely that she was charged with assault when she was defending herself. The law doesn't usually work like that even at it's worst.


Bill and myself were talking about this in an earlier thread. I got in a fight. I really didn't want to but it happened.
If she couldn't prove that she actually had reason to defend herself (if witnesses didn't testify, or he wasn't clearly being threatening) she could have been blamed for assault. Also, charged doesn't necessarily mean convicted.


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## Tez3 (May 11, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Bill and myself were talking about this in an earlier thread. I got in a fight. I really didn't want to but it happened.
> If she couldn't prove that she actually had reason to defend herself (if witnesses didn't testify, or he wasn't clearly being threatening) she could have been blamed for assault. Also, charged doesn't necessarily mean convicted.



It's actually less of an old joke and more of an urban myth that a woman defended herself with an umbrella after taking self defence lessons, the part about being done for assault I have also heard, not in the US but in various cities and towns in the UK. I don't doubt at all it isn't real.


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## drop bear (May 11, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> The big difference between sport fighting and self defense fighting is that in sport fighting there's rules and the idea behind lots of the rules is to make the fight go on, to make the fight last so its not over too soon which would cause spectators to lose interest very quickly. People who watch fights want to see long fights. Take for instance boxing, its very restrictive in its rules. You only fight somebody in the same weight class as you.  Also, you can only hit with your glove incased hands and only to certain parts of the body, you can't hit below the belt. Now, lets say they didn't have any rules in boxing. Lets say you weren't put in a weight class and you could bite, elbow, knee, headbutt, and use any other dirty tactic or trick in the book. If they allowed that most boxing matches would be over way too soon and people would stop watching it. Now with all the rules in place boxing matches last longer, sometimes for many rounds, and thus it keeps the spectators interest. True, occasionally there are boxing matches that only last seconds but most of them last at least a round or more.



If the no rules fighters were evenly  matched the fight will generally go for a long time.


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## Tez3 (May 11, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> The big difference between sport fighting and self defense fighting is that in sport fighting there's rules and the idea behind lots of the rules is to make the fight go on, to make the fight last so its not over too soon which would cause spectators to lose interest very quickly. People who watch fights want to see long fights. Take for instance boxing, its very restrictive in its rules. You only fight somebody in the same weight class as you.  Also, you can only hit with your glove incased hands and only to certain parts of the body, you can't hit below the belt. Now, lets say they didn't have any rules in boxing. Lets say you weren't put in a weight class and you could bite, elbow, knee, headbutt, and use any other dirty tactic or trick in the book. If they allowed that most boxing matches would be over way too soon and people would stop watching it. Now with all the rules in place boxing matches last longer, sometimes for many rounds, and thus it keeps the spectators interest. True, occasionally there are boxing matches that only last seconds but most of them last at least a round or more.




Mmm you haven't promoted fights have you? People who watch fights don't particularly want to watch long fights, they will lose interest. People buy tickets to see their local people fight and hopefully win, they buy them to see exciting fights, they are quite happy with a short fight if it's entertaining. Long fights mean that the bar profits are down and people come out not just to watch the fights but to socialise, drink and eat. In MMA and boxing fights nights there's this thing called a card, you know where it lists all the fights, that keeps people interested. Watching quite a few fights wins over watching one long one. Perhaps it's just as well you don't promote I think you just matching one long fight would lose you a lot of money.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 11, 2016)

drop bear said:


> If the no rules fighters were evenly  matched the fight will generally go for a long time.


Not necessarily; this is only the case if they are both good. If they both suck, or have no experience, it could very easily end either with a lucky punch early on or them both gassing out and just giving up.


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## PhotonGuy (May 12, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Bill and myself were talking about this in an earlier thread. I got in a fight. I really didn't want to but it happened.
> If she couldn't prove that she actually had reason to defend herself (if witnesses didn't testify, or he wasn't clearly being threatening) she could have been blamed for assault. Also, charged doesn't necessarily mean convicted.


Well the fact that she reported it, that should go a long way towards proving her innocence. Bad guys don't call 911 and bad guys don't report physical altercations.


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## drop bear (May 12, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Not necessarily; this is only the case if they are both good. If they both suck, or have no experience, it could very easily end either with a lucky punch early on or them both gassing out and just giving up.


Yes. 
The better the fighters are the longer it will go.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> I found this system that teaches all sorts of protective tactics. Im wondering if its any good and if its worth investing in. The website is Don Johnson’s Protective Tactics 101


PhotonGuy, I just did a Google search on my company and found this thread.  Thank you for starting it.  I introduced Protective Tactics less than two years ago, and seriously began promoting fall 2015, so the word is just beginning to spread across the country.  There is some interesting discussion here.  I joined MT so that I may thank you and everyone who has participated in this thread and add value to a few of the posts.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Flatfish said:


> I find it curious that it costs nearly $3000 bucks and the qualifications of Don are not listed anywhere. But maybe someone else knows this guy.


Have you ever met someone with impressive qualifications, but as soon as he opened his mouth, you discover he can't teach?  Since beginning in martial arts at age 18, I've now invested 33 years and over $400,000 in very specialized education.  As a result, I've learned from some of the very best.  I'm simply a student, who, over the past 30 years, has now had the privilege of teaching tens of thousands of others, people like you, with families like yours.  If there is anything special about me, it is simply that I care, and I have a gift for teaching that empowers others to develop skills quickly and easily.  In the case of Protective Tactics, I teach the Mindsets, Mechanisms, and offer the Mentoring that will Save Your Life and Save Your Family!


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## drop bear (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Have you ever met someone with impressive qualifications, but as soon as he opened his mouth, you discover he can't teach?  Since beginning in martial arts at age 18, I've now invested 33 years and over $400,000 in very specialized education.  As a result, I've learned from some of the very best.  I'm simply a student, who, over the past 30 years, has now had the privilege of teaching tens of thousands of others, people like you, with families like yours.  If there is anything special about me, it is simply that I care, and I have a gift for teaching that empowers others to develop skills quickly and easily.  In the case of Protective Tactics, I teach the Mindsets, Mechanisms, and offer the Mentoring that will Save Your Life and Save Your Family!


  .
Who did you learn from?


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> All I can do is offer personal opinion.
> 
> _"Protect yourself and your loved ones with a simple, easy to use, step by step, abc, 123, solution."_​
> In my opinion, there is no such thing.  People will believe what they wish.


Mr. Mattocks, I can understand your skepticism.  After all, one can devote a lifetime to mastering the martial arts, and I too continue along that path.  How then can I suggest that there is an alternative solution when it comes to protection of one's self and family?  Simple.  In my experience and study, survival of real life violence requires just that, simplicity.  Protective Tactics 101 is easy, it works, and virtually anyone can do it.   So, if I may be so bold, may I suggest that you consider it not be your _opinion_ that there is no such thing, rather, in your _experience_, you have found no such thing.  I will admit, however, like most valuable concepts in life, it requires only five minutes to learn, and a lifetime to master.  The good news is, survival doesn't require mastery.


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## Buka (May 27, 2016)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Don.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> .
> Who did you learn from?


I strive to learn each and every day.  I learn from everyone I meet, and those I simply observe.  I’ve learned from each of the tens of thousands of students I have taught.  I’ve learned from some of the best not just in the martial arts realm, I’ve learned from some of the best in life, for I’ve discovered that success principles are universal.  Some of the more known instructors have been Don Burns, Steven Oliver, Bill Wallace, Patrick Robinson, Simon Rhee, Dan Magnus, Tim Larkin, Paul Vunak, Simon Treselyan, Tony Blauer, Mitch Carson, the teachings of Bruce Lee and Sun Tzu, and many others.  Others include Bill Britt, Marshall Sylver, Tony Robbins, John Burley, and Joel Bauer.  I am a student.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Buka said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, Don.


Thank you.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> There is a sales tactic where you get glowing endorsements, but don't really demonstrate any product.  You then expect those who provide their email more likely to consummate the sale, or at least have already convinced themselves of the need for the product.  Those are easier to manipulate.  If not, well you still have their email to sell or use for your own bombardment of sales pitches.
> 
> Even so, he may be legitimate in all respects.  But I am very surprised that no MA moves are made to show the superiority of his system.
> 
> PhotonGuy - have you found your MA not valuable?


When one says that his teaching is valuable, he is selling.  After all, one could be lying.  When others are allowed to share their first hand experience, they provide proof, the suspension of disbelief.  After all, they can't all be lying.

The superiority of the Protective Tactics system lies in it's simplicity and proprietary teaching methodology.  Thus, one has to experience it in person to fully comprehend its value.  The full system includes the two day immersion training event, it also includes the 20 hours of weekend training on video, book, workbook, and over 100 micro training videos delivered via email each 1-3 days.  Some videos are mindset driven, others are specific tactics.  When one enters their email address, they receive the first 30 videos, as a sample, at no obligation, and special offers to attend an immersion training.

Now that you mention it though, I believe I will include a video on the home page of my site to include some action segments...Coming soon.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Well, he's been charged with felonies in the past about fraud, so that's not the best sign.
> Former realtor Don Johnson charged with 14 felonies


Charged, but not convicted.  I've discovered that everyone who achieves extraordinary success, also experiences extraordinary challenges, such as accusations of wrong doing.  In Australia, they call it tall poppy syndrome.  It is the phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticized because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.  Since this is a martial arts oriented community, I'll give you the Chinese and Japanese culture version..."The nail that stands out gets hammered down".  Some of the posts on this thread are a good example   No worries.  It is human nature.  To not criticize, condemn, or complain, is another skill that requires positive attitude and practice.


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2016)

Being done for fraud even if true doesn't mean you can't fight or defend yourself.


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## oftheherd1 (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> When one says that his teaching is valuable, he is selling.  After all, one could be lying.  When others are allowed to share their first hand experience, they provide proof, the suspension of disbelief.  After all, they can't all be lying.
> 
> The superiority of the Protective Tactics system lies in it's simplicity and proprietary teaching methodology.  Thus, one has to experience it in person to fully comprehend its value.  The full system includes the two day immersion training event, it also includes the 20 hours of weekend training on video, book, workbook, and over 100 micro training videos delivered via email each 1-3 days.  Some videos are mindset driven, others are specific tactics.  When one enters their email address, they receive the first 30 videos, as a sample, at no obligation, and special offers to attend an immersion training.
> 
> Now that you mention it though, I believe I will include a video on the home page of my site to include some action segments...Coming soon.



Although I remain somewhat skeptical, I appreciate your willingness come into MT and tell your side of things in a civil manner.  Speaking only for myself, I think seeing some examples of your art and teaching would be very useful in my willingness to be more receptive to your art and teaching.  Not saying I want to learn your secrets for free, just wanting to look at some samples to evaluate them from my perspective.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> The only mention of any qualifications on the site is the fact that he's made speeches. He doesn't even specify what the topic(s) of these "presentations" might have been.
> 
> BTW - that same page displays logos of a bunch of major media organizations, doubtless to create the impression that he has appeared on or been endorsed by those media. However, nothing on the site would indicate that this is actually the case.
> 
> ...


Tony, very fun.  I too choose to find humor and enjoyment in everything.   I notice you are in Louisville KY.  I presented this "magical" Tactic at the Louisville Convention Center to an audience of hundreds this past October at the National Survival and Preparedness (NPS) Expo and again last month at the NPS Expo in Richmond VA.  I wish the tactic could produce the magical results you suggest.  No such luck.  It will save your life and save your family though.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Of course I find my MA valuable but I can always learn more. And if you ask me its always good, after you've reached a certain level of proficiency in your primary art to explore other arts and styles and see what you can learn from them.



“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Let's see...  He's a motivational speaker, mentor... his "protective tactics" will change your life in just 2 days, for just shy of $3000.
> 
> But he doesn't explain his qualifications, was using a holster with no apparent retention and a red gun (based on posts above, can he have a gun? Inquiring minds want to know), and promises to kick anyone out who he feels is "not a force for good."  Or, y'know, like is in danger of making him look less impressive, maybe?
> 
> I would save your money.  Too bad I can't get the time it's taken to review this back somehow...


I believe our most valuable asset is our time.  I believe it is sad that every hour of every day, bad things happen to good people.  Good people are stripped of their dignity, lose their peace of mind and security, and some even lose the one thing they can't get back, their life, their time on this planet.  Every day, too many die prematurely simply due to a lack of knowledge and skills.  Perhaps worse, most who live, aren't really living at all.  

I imagine that nearly everyone on this forum has invested over 3k in their martial arts training.  I also imagine that the majority of that time and money was not focused on the tactics, targets, and tools that would save your life in the event of a violent assault.

What if one could learn all that was necessary to save your life and save your family in only two days?  What would it be worth to save all the time and money spent on training that included tradition, sport, memorized and complex moves which break down under the stress of real violence and multiple attackers?  What is one's life worth?  And for those in your life that you value, who don't share your passion and discipline to practice martial arts for years, what is their life worth?


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> What would it be worth to* save all* *the time* and money spent on training that included tradition, sport, memorized and complex moves which break down under the stress of real violence and multiple attackers? What is one's life worth? And for those



But what else would I do with my time? I love training. I don't want to learn everything in two days, I know that for myself that is not nearly long enough.
My training though has not broken down under the stress of real violence and multiple attackers. Nor does my training have 'complex moves', it has a bit of tradition but then what is life without a bit of tradition (cue song from Fiddler on the Roof).
The thing too is that not being from the same place as you your roll call of instructors means little to me because I haven't heard of them apart from Bill Wallace who takes seminars over here ( that doesn't discount them, just means I don't know them).
I'm not posting to give you a hard time but if you are selling it has to be a good sell!


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## Tony Dismukes (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Have you ever met someone with impressive qualifications, but as soon as he opened his mouth, you discover he can't teach?  Since beginning in martial arts at age 18, I've now invested 33 years and over $400,000 in very specialized education.  As a result, I've learned from some of the very best.  I'm simply a student, who, over the past 30 years, has now had the privilege of teaching tens of thousands of others, people like you, with families like yours.  If there is anything special about me, it is simply that I care, and I have a gift for teaching that empowers others to develop skills quickly and easily.  In the case of Protective Tactics, I teach the Mindsets, Mechanisms, and offer the Mentoring that will Save Your Life and Save Your Family!



Hi, Don! It's probably an occupational hazard, but I think you seem to be stuck in Motivational SalesSpeak(TM) mode. It's the exciting and innovative method of addressing an audience with Capitalized Words and Glowing Generalities that's guaranteed to have them Eating Out Of The Palm Of Your Hand! I'm sure that this is a valuable approach for earning money in your line of work, but when speaking with a group of skeptical subject matter experts (as you are here) you may get a better reception if you are more specific and down to earth.



Don Johnson said:


> I strive to learn each and every day.  I learn from everyone I meet, and those I simply observe.  I’ve learned from each of the tens of thousands of students I have taught.  I’ve learned from some of the best not just in the martial arts realm, I’ve learned from some of the best in life, for I’ve discovered that success principles are universal.  Some of the more known instructors have been Don Burns, Steven Oliver, Bill Wallace, Patrick Robinson, Simon Rhee, Dan Magnus, Tim Larkin, Paul Vunak, Simon Treselyan, Tony Blauer, Mitch Carson, the teachings of Bruce Lee and Sun Tzu, and many others.  Others include Bill Britt, Marshall Sylver, Tony Robbins, John Burley, and Joel Bauer.  I am a student.



Learning from everyone you encounter is a good thing and I'm sure many of us here strive to meet that ideal. However, I think drop bear's question was more along the lines of the following:

1) What martial arts instructors have you actually studied under as an official student on a consistent basis? Not instructors where you attended a seminar or read a book or watched a video or had a conversation with - instructors where you actually showed up at their school every week on an ongoing basis?
2) How many years did you train with said instructors?
3) What ranks or certifications do you have from those instructors indicating that they stand behind your competencies in the material that they teach?

Just about all of us here are happy to provide that sort of information. Will you?



Don Johnson said:


> When one says that his teaching is valuable, he is selling. After all, one could be lying. When others are allowed to share their first hand experience, they provide proof, the suspension of disbelief. After all, they can't all be lying.



Testimonials from students are nice, but basically meaningless without knowing the qualifications of the students to judge what they have been taught. I'm sure the instructors of Yellow Bamboo could provide testimony from students as to the miraculous power of their art. That doesn't make it any less of a delusion.



Don Johnson said:


> The superiority of the Protective Tactics system lies in it's simplicity and proprietary teaching methodology. Thus, one has to experience it in person to fully comprehend its value. The full system includes the two day immersion training event, it also includes the 20 hours of weekend training on video, book, workbook, and over 100 micro training videos delivered via email each 1-3 days.



Here we have a problem if you want to sell to the folks on this forum. Those of us with decades of experience in martial arts have a pretty good idea of how much you can learn of value in a weekend seminar and how much the going rate is for a seminar with a world-class instructor. You're promising more than we think is realistic and charging many times more than some of the best martial arts instructors in the world - and you're basically saying "trust me, it's totally worth it."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.



Don Johnson said:


> I notice you are in Louisville KY.



Lexington, but close.



Don Johnson said:


> I presented this "magical" Tactic at the Louisville Convention Center to an audience of hundreds this past October at the National Survival and Preparedness (NPS) Expo and again last month at the NPS Expo in Richmond VA.



Here we're back to the Motivational SalesSpeak(TM) again, as seen on your website. You're presenting the fact that you gave a presentation to an audience as if it had some relevance to the question of whether what you are teaching is valid and worth what you are charging.



Don Johnson said:


> for I’ve discovered that success principles are universal.



It's not hard to find concepts and principles that are applicable to different domains. Give me a little time and I could write up a nice essay and give a speech showing how certain principles apply to jiu-jitsu, playing guitar, computer programming, and maintaining a happy marriage. I could even number those principles or give them cool names and talk about how you just have to learn these simple concepts in order to be successful in all those areas.

What_* is*_ hard is actually applying those principles to each of those areas in your life. Contrary to what we might hope, being really good at applying Success Principle A to one domain doesn't mean you are necessarily any good at applying it to any other domain - even if you recognize that the same concept can apply and you've given it a cool name.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Just saw the some of his videos on facebook.  Not feeling it.  It's more for a person who doesn't want to take the time to train in a Martial arts, MMA, BJJ or whatever.  Based on what I saw if you are taking your martial art seriously as a self defense and are training it as a self defense, then the class will be a waste of time and money.  If you don't want to learn a Martial art or fighting system then the question would be can you truly learn and be conditioned enough to utilize what is being taught in his seminar.
> 
> I also don't like the self defense classes that show you what to do when a gun is pointed and resting on your head.  I've had a gun pointed to my head twice in my life time and at no time was the gun making contact with my head.  People who would point a gun at your head understand distance and the value of not getting too close where you can make a grab for the gun.
> 
> ...


JowGaWolf, 
You are correct.  I developed Protective Tactics 101 to empower virtually anyone in only two days.  Why?  Violent assaults occur every day, to people of all ages, shapes, sizes, and conditioning.  When will you or someone you love be violently assaulted?  Imagine it is Friday, and you learn that someone you love will be attacked on Monday.  Based on the dozens of other programs that I've attended, PT101 offers the greatest opportunity for you and your loved ones to return home, physically and emotionally intact.  Naturally, more training would be better.  That is why we offer lifetime re-attendance at no additional charge.  We also offer PT102, PT201, PT202, firearm training.

Concerning the firearm to one's head or body, I agree, an intelligent threat would maintain a bit of distance.  The good news there is that most people, full of adrenaline, at even 3 yards will not hit cranial ocular cavity nor even thoracic cavity.  Of course, when you exercise sufficient tactics to Prepare and Prevent, you should rarely if ever find yourself in a position that you need to Protect.


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## pgsmith (May 27, 2016)

Wow!
You managed to express what I was thinking much more eloquently than I could formulate the thoughts.

Thanks Tony!



Don Johnson said:


> It will save your life and save your family though


  Mr. Johnson,
  I would much prefer that you say that it *could* save them, as I'm certain that *will* save them is incorrect as I can't see myself ever desiring to attend one of your seminars. I do appreciate your willingness to come here and actually discuss your training (sort of) with the members though.


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## jks9199 (May 27, 2016)

Mr Johnson...

Unlike some others that people have asked about here -- you actually came to us.  I give you credit for that.  But, so far, to be blunt -- everything you've posted here has been further smokescreen.  I'm a cop.  I'm a DT instructor.  I've been training in the martial art of Bando for over 30 years.  I've been exposed to krav maga, to various styles of karate, to a couple forms of kung fu, and more, in settings ranging from a few hours to weeks or months of training.  I can do a laundry list of instructors, too...  But I don't list folks who wouldn't actually recognize me if they saw me again, either.

Bottom line, you're making a pretty huge claim.  You're presenting sales copy, with no substance.  I remain skeptical.  As was said by others, show us something more than ad copy and promo videos.  You don't have to show your complete 5 minute secret, you don't have to show details of your proprietary method -- but you've got to show me something more than a so-so execution of Model Mugging, too.


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## mograph (May 27, 2016)

Don, I could analyze your argument rhetorically, but it would put everyone to sleep. Suffice it to say, you have a skeptical audience here -- it needs evidence for your claims of fact. Does your system work? Please show evidence if you expect to persuade this audience. 



Tony Dismukes said:


> ... but when speaking with a group of skeptical subject matter experts (as you are here) you may get a better reception if you are more specific and down to earth.


Yep. Please lose the Branding Speak. It hurts your credibility.


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## Buka (May 27, 2016)

Have to give the man some props, though.


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## JowGaWolf (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> What if one could learn all that was necessary to save your life and save your family in only two days? What would it be worth to save all the time and money spent on training that included tradition, sport, memorized and complex moves which break down under the stress of real violence and multiple attackers? What is one's life worth? And for those in your life that you value, who don't share your passion and discipline to practice martial arts for years, what is their life worth?


There are very few things in life that we learn in 2 days. Learning how to kick and punch properly takes some people more than 1- 3 months. Based on your videos some of your students in the video would fall into that category.  The experts that you learned from didn't learn what they know in 1- 3 days. You yourself didn't learn your self defense tactics in 2 days.   People become good and excellent at what they do because they spend great amount of time doing it.   If a person wants to do be Great or even just good in self-defense then that's what they have to spend time in.  

People who spend all that time training a Martial arts for the purpose of self-defense will be extremely good in the majority of self-defense situations.  There is a lot more to their training than just learning self-defense techniques and memorizing complex moves.  If your body isn't conditioned properly then some of the self-defense techniques aren't going to work.  Something as simple as running away requires that you have to be fit enough to actually run away and even then you have to still be able to run faster than your attacker. 

To answer your questions:
*What if one could learn all that was necessary to save your life and save your family in only two days?* It wouldn't be worth anything to me because my training, my life experiences, tell me that it take more than 2 days to learn something and to be good at it. 

*What would it be worth to save all the time and money spent on training that included tradition, sport, memorized and complex moves which break down under the stress of real violence and multiple attackers?* There is not such thing as saving time in training. Training takes time and the more time you spend training the better you'll get at what you train. What you see as wasted time, is time well spent in being healthy (physically, mentally, and emotionally) all while learning self-defense.  Martial artists are still training in self-defense long after your students stop training self-defense in your course.

*What is one's life worth?* My life is worth more than me thinking that I'm going to learn and be effective in defending myself in only 2 days.  It's worth more than me having the assumption that learning self-defense can be quickly learned.  Something as simple as becoming more aware of the environment even takes more than 2 days to learn. In fact it's something that has to be trained everyday. If I want to increase my ability to defend myself then I need to put time and effort to do so.  I don't need to short cut my training.

*And for those in your life that you value, who don't share your passion and discipline to practice martial arts for years, what is their life worth?* This is the unfortunate truth.  If someone doesn't have the passion and discipline to practice being safe, then they aren't going to learn self-defense beyond calling 911, screaming and kicking wildly, and crying and begging.  Many people like that are going to be victims. Even after they are attack they still won't make an effort to learn self defense. 


As for the complex moves in martial arts, not all of them are complex, most of them are very practical. Kung Fu is guilty of complex movements, but many of these movements are complex because you have never done it before.  Playing the piano or guitar is complex until you learn how to play.  After you train many hours and many years those movements of the fingers became natural and you can play without thinking.  Martial Arts is just like this.  We drill movements, attacks, and defenses so that those movement become natural.  So when I see someone attack me I naturally defend and return attack.  If someone attacks me by surprise, I naturally escape and reset to a defensive position that helps to keep me out of a worse situation. So while the movements feel complex in the beginning they become natural.

Being aware of the environment may be complex and taxing to people who are learning how to become more aware.  But after training it becomes natural and less taxing because you aren't mentally telling yourself check that guy, watch that lady, keep your distance.  Much of that will just be on auto without thought and over time you'll learn how to pick up specific audio and visual cues that raise red flags even though you aren't mentally looking for them.


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Hi, Don! It's probably an occupational hazard, but I think you seem to be stuck in Motivational SalesSpeak(TM) mode



You can't motivate me, I'm British.


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## JowGaWolf (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> When will you or someone you love be violently assaulted? Imagine it is Friday, and you learn that someone you love will be attacked on Monday.


 For me it depends on the family member they are attacking. Some will break your arm, the others may shoot you, or hunt you down with their boys and then shoot you. Some will get beaten up without a doubt.



Don Johnson said:


> The good news there is that most people, full of adrenaline, at even 3 yards will not hit cranial ocular cavity nor even thoracic cavity.


That's the thing about guns,  you don't have to have to hit those areas on the first shot.  How many bullets does a gun hold?  Well that's the maximum times that they get to shoot at you, and that's the maximum times you get to try to avoid being shot. Your more than welcome to try to roll the dice on those odds, but even stray bullets sometimes find a mark.  I can show you tons of video footage of store clerks being hit with bullets from that range.  I can equally show you videos of store clerks hitting robbers at that range as well.  Don't make the assumption that criminals don't shot at the gun range or practice shooting the guns they own.


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## Tez3 (May 27, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> For me it depends on the family member they are attacking.



You know that doesn't read well don't you?


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## Bill Mattocks (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Mr. Mattocks, I can understand your skepticism.  After all, one can devote a lifetime to mastering the martial arts, and I too continue along that path.  How then can I suggest that there is an alternative solution when it comes to protection of one's self and family?  Simple.  In my experience and study, survival of real life violence requires just that, simplicity.  Protective Tactics 101 is easy, it works, and virtually anyone can do it.   So, if I may be so bold, may I suggest that you consider it not be your _opinion_ that there is no such thing, rather, in your _experience_, you have found no such thing.  I will admit, however, like most valuable concepts in life, it requires only five minutes to learn, and a lifetime to master.  The good news is, survival doesn't require mastery.



You talk like a commercial.


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## JowGaWolf (May 27, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You know that doesn't read well don't you?


Yeah, but it reads right lol. Lets just say for some, self-defense isn't going to be an issue as much as staying out of legal situations. lol


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## geezer (May 27, 2016)

Man, I'd love to go to a seminar that would enable me to promote myself like that without feeling embarrassed and ashamed. What I really need is a way to sell everyone on what_ I _teach and charge an arm and a leg while I'm at it, without feeling bad for the poor mark. 

Can you get a prescription for  a jumbo-sized bottle of _sociopathy pills?_ You know, something that inflates your ego and eliminates all traces of empathy. Yeah, like whatever it is Trump takes. Or Hillary. ....Sell me a jar of that and I'll figure out the rest on my own.

...or maybe I'd _rather not? _


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## JowGaWolf (May 27, 2016)

geezer said:


> Man, I'd love to go to a seminar that would enable me to promote myself like that without feeling embarrassed and ashamed. What I really need is a way to sell everyone on what_ I _teach and charge an arm and a leg while I'm at it, without feeling bad for the poor mark.
> 
> Can you get a prescription for  a jumbo-sized bottle of _sociopathy pills?_ You know, something that inflates your ego and eliminates all traces of empathy. Yeah, like whatever it is Trump takes. Or Hillary. ....Sell me a jar of that and I'll figure out the rest on my own.
> 
> ...or maybe I'd _rather not? _


ha ha ha..  yeah I wish I could sell Jow Ga like that.  Unfortunately the statements of hard work, bruises, and sweat seems to kill off a lot of the potential members.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Tough crowd.  Thank you all for your input.  Never in my past have I been beaten up by so many Masters and Grandmasters at the same time.  I find it overwhelming, and exciting at the same time.  I strive to always seek out those who are more knowledgeable than I.

It appears that everyone on this forum is a very experienced martial artist.  That is awesome.  You are already experts in self defense.  As such, you would likely learn nothing new at my events in the way of physical skills.  In fact, you would certainly find the physical skills very basic, fundamental, and easy.

In "SalesSpeak", experienced martial artist are not my target market.  You don't need the self defense skills that I teach.  Protective Tactics 101 would not expand nor improve upon the self defense that you have already mastered. 

My willingness to come forward on this thread was/is not motivated by a desire to "sell" anyone here.  To the contrary, my motivation is simply to inform as to my system which is being marketed across the U.S., and chat with other first class instructors around the country to gain input, expertise, and feedback. 

This thread has already offered me some valuable insight into thoughts concerning my marketing.  Even more valuable, would be your input and feedback of my event and system itself.  I am an instructor sometimes, a student always.

I value your time and expertise.  As such, I'm now extending the offer to any and all of the expert martial artist who belong to this forum to attend my weekend training event, at absolutely no charge.  I would even welcome you to save the expense of a hotel and stay in my guest house by the pool.  All I would ask in exchange is your honest feedback and input how to improve the event. 

Here is a short video from another experienced martial artist who attended my weekend immersion training.  In fact, he pointed something out that improved one of the tactics I teach.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Tough crowd.  Thank you all for your input.  Never in my past have I been beaten up by so many Masters and Grandmasters at the same time.  I find it overwhelming, and exciting at the same time.  I strive to always seek out those who are more knowledgeable than I.
> 
> It appears that everyone on this forum is a very experienced martial artist.  That is awesome.  You are already experts in self defense.  As such, you would likely learn nothing new at my events in the way of physical skills.  In fact, you would certainly find the physical skills very basic, fundamental, and easy.
> 
> ...


If you hold one of these seminars near Lexington, let me know. I'll come out and offer my feedback.

FYI - the "grandmaster" and "master" labels you see by our names are not indicative of any claimed martial art rank. It's just a feature of the forum software that grants forum titles based on how many posts you have made. I have 35 years of martial arts training and dan ranks in a few arts, but I make no claims of being a master. I'm just a guy who's been around enough to have some ideas about what works. We do have some beginners on this forum, but the members who have posted in this particular thread range from about a decade up to over four decades of experience. Some of them hold relatively high ranks, but I don't think any of them claim master status.


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## jks9199 (May 27, 2016)

A small clarification --- the ranking under our usernames is not our "martial arts" ranking.  It's just a ranking here on MartialTalk, a fun way of recognizing activity.  I don't consider myself a master, let alone a grandmaster... 

I'm also going to raise a flag on the idea that everyone -- or possibly anyone! -- is an expert on self defense.  I'll refer you to the dozens of threads on the topic for more details, but it's enough to say that most here will agree that martial arts and self defense are not synonymous, and that most of us can, at best, claim to be knowledgeable about a small slice of that huge and complex pie.

I hope that if anyone is able to take you up on your generous offer, they'll report back.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If you hold one of these seminars near Lexington, let me know. I'll come out and offer my feedback.
> 
> FYI - the "grandmaster" and "master" labels you see by our names are not indicative of any claimed martial art rank. It's just a feature of the forum software that grants forum titles based on how many posts you have made. I have 35 years of martial arts training and dan ranks in a few arts, but I make no claims of being a master. I'm just a guy who's been around enough to have some ideas about what works. We do have some beginners on this forum, but the members who have posted in this particular thread range from about a decade up to over four decades of experience. Some of them hold relatively high ranks, but I don't think any of them claim master status.


Tony,  Thank you.  I don't have anything scheduled back in KY yet.  When I was in KY in Oct, 32 people purchased my system and several have already made the drive to attend my weekend training.  One, who lives in Fishers KY, he and his son have already attended both PT101 at my place in NW Indiana and our partner firearm training facility in Nevada with us.  He is re-attending in June and bringing his wife and both sons.  It is about a 5 hour drive from you, but again, you'd be welcome to stay at my place to save some cash.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> A small clarification --- the ranking under our usernames is not our "martial arts" ranking.  It's just a ranking here on MartialTalk, a fun way of recognizing activity.  I don't consider myself a master, let alone a grandmaster...


Though the ranking of usernames may be for fun, I believe humility is most certainly a quality of a true master.  Great to see it.  One of my instructors says, "Your ego is not your amigo"




jks9199 said:


> I hope that if anyone is able to take you up on your generous offer, they'll report back.


Thank you.  I hope so too.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 27, 2016)

Out of curiosity, what is your primary art and what is your ranking in it (if it has rankings), or your experience with it. Curious what kind of background you come from to synthesize it into a 2 day seminar and expect it to be successful, as almost every SD instructor I know (including myself) considers those types of things to actually be detrimental to the student's longterm safety.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Out of curiosity, what is your primary art and what is your ranking in it (if it has rankings), or your experience with it. Curious what kind of background you come from to synthesize it into a 2 day seminar and expect it to be successful, as almost every SD instructor I know (including myself) considers those types of things to actually be detrimental to the student's longterm safety.


33 years TaeKwonDo and Hapkido.  21 years Kali and Jujitsu.  In the 90's, over 500 students per week attended the traditional martial arts classes that I taught in my small town facility.  More importantly, a focused effort on street defense specifically for past 18 years.  I believe that a focus on primary basics could never be detrimental.


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## JowGaWolf (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> 33 years TaeKwonDo and Hapkido.  21 years Kali and Jujitsu.  In the 90's, over 500 students per week attended the traditional martial arts classes that I taught in my small town facility.  More importantly, a focused effort on street defense specifically for past 18 years.  I believe that a focus on primary basics could never be detrimental.


What's the difference in focus between how you taught the martial arts classes vs the self-defense classes?


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## Buka (May 27, 2016)

Don, you're a hell of a salesman. I'd go to one of your seminars just because. Also because I liked Glengarry Glen Ross.







I kinda wish I had your gift.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 27, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> 33 years TaeKwonDo and Hapkido.  21 years Kali and Jujitsu.  In the 90's, over 500 students per week attended the traditional martial arts classes that I taught in my small town facility.  More importantly, a focused effort on street defense specifically for past 18 years.  I believe that a focus on primary basics could never be detrimental.


I can definitely see how those arts could be combined to teach the martial parts of self defense pretty effectively.

Regarding your last statement, I agree, a focus on the basics is not detrimental. However, I find that 2 day seminars are, especially if they are being marketed to people who don't practice. What happens often is these people learn a lot during the seminar, but either don't have motivation or a way to practice what they were taught, and even if they do don't have an instructor to inform them that they are doing something incorrectly. This results in them only getting two days of practice at the seminar, not getting any more useful practice, and forgetting most of what they learn in a month. That part isn't detrimental so much as non-beneficial and a waste of money IMO. However, it also can give them a false sense of confidence and may convince them that they no longer need to attend SD classes at a school, which would be much more beneficial, because they are convinced that they now know a lot, despite not actually having it ingrained in their muscle memory. 

It also could result in them engaging in more risky behaviors due to their confidence, unless a large portion of the seminar is focused on 
A: legality
B: limitations of what they learned
C: the importance of continuous practice, and help finding a long term SD school
D: the fact that even with this knowledge, it isn't engrained into them, and even when it is, there is no guarantee that they will freeze up when something happens (among other possibilities that relate to point B). 

Unfortunately, most seminars do not focus on these as they are not overly popular, and based on what you have stated in this thread so far I would assume that you do not stress B &C as much as you should (this is just an assumption as I haven't actually attended one).


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> What's the difference in focus between how you taught the martial arts classes vs the self-defense classes?


When I taught martial arts classes, the primary focus was the character development of the individual.  That included tradition, respect, discipline, fitness, continual development of foundation skills and building upon those skills, progressive achievement of rank.  It also included 36 life skills taught monthly over 36 months.

When I teach self-defense classes, the focus is on survival in the street.  That does not include form, style, memorization, sport, rules, compliance techniques nor fine motor skills.  It does include an emphasis on preparation and prevention, developing the necessary mindsets, basic skills such as distance management, base, use of full body, strongest available tools striking only vulnerable targets to create trauma, momentum, assumption of multiple attackers and weapons, force on force stress inoculation, legal implications and strategies to protect oneself criminally and civilly.  The weekend is 20 hours of instruction plus there are over 100 pre-event and follow-up 3-5 minutes micro training videos delivered each 1-3 days over a full year.  Re-attendance is encouraged, and higher level training is included as a bonus.


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## Don Johnson (May 27, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I can definitely see how those arts could be combined to teach the martial parts of self defense pretty effectively.
> 
> Regarding your last statement, I agree, a focus on the basics is not detrimental. However, I find that 2 day seminars are, especially if they are being marketed to people who don't practice. What happens often is these people learn a lot during the seminar, but either don't have motivation or a way to practice what they were taught, and even if they do don't have an instructor to inform them that they are doing something incorrectly. This results in them only getting two days of practice at the seminar, not getting any more useful practice, and forgetting most of what they learn in a month. That part isn't detrimental so much as non-beneficial and a waste of money IMO. However, it also can give them a false sense of confidence and may convince them that they no longer need to attend SD classes at a school, which would be much more beneficial, because they are convinced that they now know a lot, despite not actually having it ingrained in their muscle memory.
> 
> ...


Excellent points, and precisely some of the distinctions that make my event fairly unique.  I discovered many of the same shortfalls in the SD seminar world.  In addition, far too many gimmicky tricks, gadgets, skills that require memorization, fine motor skills, and too much practice.  There would be no possible way that a student attending a typical SD seminar without years of study could flow from one skill or technique to another in a stressful, dynamic real life scenario.  I had just finished replying to Jowgawolf with a brief description of some of what is included in my weekend training, then I read your post.  Sounds like we are on the same page.  As for the freeze up, our progressive force on force scenarios have done wonders to help students overcome it.


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## JowGaWolf (May 28, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> When I taught martial arts classes, the primary focus was the character development of the individual.  That included tradition, respect, discipline, fitness, continual development of foundation skills and building upon those skills, progressive achievement of rank.  It also included 36 life skills taught monthly over 36 months.
> 
> When I teach self-defense classes, the focus is on survival in the street.  That does not include form, style, memorization, sport, rules, compliance techniques nor fine motor skills.  It does include an emphasis on preparation and prevention, developing the necessary mindsets, basic skills such as distance management, base, use of full body, strongest available tools striking only vulnerable targets to create trauma, momentum, assumption of multiple attackers and weapons, force on force stress inoculation, legal implications and strategies to protect oneself criminally and civilly.  The weekend is 20 hours of instruction plus there are over 100 pre-event and follow-up 3-5 minutes micro training videos delivered each 1-3 days over a full year.  Re-attendance is encouraged, and higher level training is included as a bonus.


 Thanks.  That puts things into perspective for me.


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## Don Johnson (May 28, 2016)

Buka said:


> Don, you're a hell of a salesman. I'd go to one of your seminars just because. Also because I liked Glengarry Glen Ross.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are welcome to attend   And yes, great movie.  Mandatory viewing for traditional sales


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 28, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> When I taught martial arts classes, the primary focus was the character development of the individual.  That included tradition, respect, discipline, fitness, continual development of foundation skills and building upon those skills, progressive achievement of rank.  It also included 36 life skills taught monthly over 36 months.
> 
> When I teach self-defense classes, the focus is on survival in the street.  That does not include form, style, memorization, sport, rules, compliance techniques nor fine motor skills.  It does include an emphasis on preparation and prevention, developing the necessary mindsets, basic skills such as distance management, base, use of full body, strongest available tools striking only vulnerable targets to create trauma, momentum, assumption of multiple attackers and weapons, force on force stress inoculation, legal implications and strategies to protect oneself criminally and civilly.  The weekend is 20 hours of instruction plus there are over 100 pre-event and follow-up 3-5 minutes micro training videos delivered each 1-3 days over a full year.  Re-attendance is encouraged, and higher level training is included as a bonus.


This seems a lot more reasonable to me than what I initially assumed about your seminar. I have doubts that people would pay attention to the follow-up videos, or that videos like that can be effective, but that is more of a philosophical difference, and if this is the way you do them it's the best way that I have heard this type of seminar being run. Not 100% sold due to what I just mentioned regarding videos, but probably as sold as you can get me.

Either way, based on your experience it would be cool if you stuck around this forum and posted actively  (just try to avoid the sales voice you used in your first few posts, that could get annoying after a while)


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## mograph (May 28, 2016)

This conversation seems to be working out. 
Kudos to Don for being able to switch gears. Pivot. That sort of thing.


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## Don Johnson (May 28, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> This seems a lot more reasonable to me than what I initially assumed about your seminar.


As the endless video testimonials on my site www.ProtectiveTactics101.com confirm, including testimonials from Black Belt martial artist, law enforcement, and military personnel, the seminar is not only effective, my weekend seminar, and system, is complete.  It does in fact positively change lives as they become more prepared to deal with true violence, heal from violence in the past, and start living a more fulfilled life.  I guarantee it.  I know that sounds like the sales voice again, but when you positively believe in what you are doing, and have proven results, there is an obligation to help others embrace it!



kempodisciple said:


> I have doubts that people would pay attention to the follow-up videos, or that videos like that can be effective, but that is more of a philosophical difference, and if this is the way you do them it's the best way that I have heard this type of seminar being run. Not 100% sold due to what I just mentioned regarding videos, but probably as sold as you can get me.


Thanks.  I actually get analytics of how many watch the videos.  As you would suspect, a lot simply don't open their email.  However, 53% do.  From what I hear in the marketing realm, that is really good.  The videos are short, 3-5 minutes.  They develop top of mind awareness.  As a couple people posted in this thread, simple awareness takes time to develop.  So do preparedness and preventive habits.  The videos every 1-3 days do the trick.  The videos refresh things taught in the seminar, continue to provide proof that the seminar and tactics work for others, discuss self defense situations in the news and PT101 tactics that should have been employed, and reveal additional tactics to keep them safe, like how to stop attackers from getting in your home so quickly and easily, and how to make each bedroom in your home a safe room, and much, much more. Yes, they would help even more if everyone watched them!  At least they see the titles in their inbox.  As you mentioned, I've heard of nobody else who runs a seminar the way I do, and I've attended a lot of them.  I've definitely never heard of anyone who offers the same kind of value with re-attendance at no charge and follow up videos for life.  I'm just determined to make a difference, effectively and efficiently.


kempodisciple said:


> Either way, based on your experience it would be cool if you stuck around this forum and posted actively (just try to avoid the sales voice you used in your first few posts, that could get annoying after a while)


I appreciate that.  From what I've seen so far, and the experience I've had here, it seems there are some knowledgeable contributors.  Of course, there are obviously many who are simply not yet educated and experienced, but this forum can help them.  I did begin contributing to a few other threads already.  My understanding is that people can click on my name, then the number next to messages, to see posts of mine in other threads too.  I'll do my best to avoid the commercial voice.  Though I've already helped tens of thousands over the past 33 years as an instructor, I'm now focused specifically on saving lives with pure, true self defense, and simply want to help as many people as possible.  I know the most powerful way I can do that is to teach them live and in person!  Thank you all for sticking with me through the evolution of this thread, and giving me a chance to "defend" myself.


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## Tony Dismukes (May 28, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> I'll do my best to avoid the commercial voice.


I will say that the handful of short, specific, on-topic comments you've made in a few other threads so far have done more to establish your credibility as a martial artist with me than your entire website and your initial sales spiel in this thread.


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## Don Johnson (May 28, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I will say that the handful of short, specific, on-topic comments you've made in a few other threads so far have done more to establish your credibility as a martial artist with me than your entire website and your initial sales spiel in this thread.


Thanks Tony!  My marketing mentor has a saying, "If only they knew you, they would invest in what you do"


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## Buka (May 29, 2016)




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## PhotonGuy (May 29, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> PhotonGuy, I just did a Google search on my company and found this thread.  Thank you for starting it.  I introduced Protective Tactics less than two years ago, and seriously began promoting fall 2015, so the word is just beginning to spread across the country.  There is some interesting discussion here.  I joined MT so that I may thank you and everyone who has participated in this thread and add value to a few of the posts.



Well welcome to Martial Talk. We met at the NPS prepper expo in Kentucky last year and I was there in Virginia just earlier this month. You're also a student at Front Sight like me. So anyway, you should get to know the people here. You should find it fun here.


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## PhotonGuy (May 29, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Something as simple as running away requires that you have to be fit enough to actually run away and even then you have to still be able to run faster than your attacker.



Not necessarily. If its more than just you running away from an attacker you just have to run faster than the slowest person running away.


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## lklawson (May 29, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> The superiority of the Protective Tactics system lies in it's simplicity and proprietary teaching methodology.  Thus, one has to experience it in person to fully comprehend its value.  The full system includes the two day immersion training event, it also includes the 20 hours of weekend training on video, book, workbook, and over 100 micro training videos delivered via email each 1-3 days.  Some videos are mindset driven, others are specific tactics.  When one enters their email address, they receive the first 30 videos, as a sample, at no obligation, and special offers to attend an immersion training.


I generally consider every thing about that paragraph a "red flag" in my experience.

(mobile)


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## lklawson (May 29, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> What if one could learn all that was necessary to save your life and save your family in only two days?


This is also a "red flag" and, honestly, I truly don't believe it for a second. Martial Arts and "all that [is] necessary to save your life and save your family" cannot be taught in two days. Maybe you can teach some cool and useful stuff. Maybe not. But that particular promise is unbelievable oversell.

(mobile)


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## PhotonGuy (May 29, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> For me it depends on the family member they are attacking. Some will break your arm, the others may shoot you, or hunt you down with their boys and then shoot you.



For their sake I hope they don't end up going to jail for that although I personally wouldn't blame them for taking such action against an attacker.


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## JowGaWolf (May 29, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> Not necessarily. If its more than just you running away from an attacker you just have to run faster than the slowest person running away.


Here's an interesting response that my friend told me years ago.  My friend and I went hiking and she asked me what would I do if a bear attacks.  I told her I only had to run faster than she does to escape the bear. She said, while showing me her hiking stick, "we'll see how fast you run when I take out your knees."


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## lklawson (May 29, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Tough crowd.  Thank you all for your input.  Never in my past have I been beaten up by so many Masters and Grandmasters at the same time.  I find it overwhelming, and exciting at the same time.  I strive to always seek out those who are more knowledgeable than I.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I value your time and expertise.  As such, I'm now extending the offer to any and all of the expert martial artist who belong to this forum to attend my weekend training event, at absolutely no charge.  I would even welcome you to save the expense of a hotel and stay in my guest house by the pool.  All I would ask in exchange is your honest feedback and input how to improve the event.


Yes, it is a tough crowd, because there are a lot of, literal, subject matter experts here.

Let me know if you hold an event around Dayton, Ohio (Wright-Patterson AFB). I'll come and give an honest review.

(mobile)


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## JowGaWolf (May 29, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> For their sake I hope they don't end up going to jail for that although I personally wouldn't blame them for taking such action against an attacker.


 We'll let's just say that sometimes they are the attacker, hence, no need for self-defense lol.  Like they say.  You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.


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## PhotonGuy (May 29, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> She said, while showing me her hiking stick, "we'll see how fast you run when I take out your knees."



She would have to catch you first.


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## Don Johnson (May 30, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Yes, it is a tough crowd, because there are a lot of, literal, subject matter experts here.
> 
> Let me know if you hold an event around Dayton, Ohio (Wright-Patterson AFB). I'll come and give an honest review.
> 
> (mobile)


My events in Chesterton IN are only four hours from you.  I guarantee it will be worth your time.  I would love to get your input.  The next event is June 25 & 26.  Let me know if you'd like to attend with a guest, as my gift.  I'm looking forward to having respected experts attend and post their experience on this thread.


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## JowGaWolf (May 30, 2016)

PhotonGuy said:


> She would have to catch you first.


Yep that's what i said too.  But then she told me that she would take out my knees first and then yell bear. lol.


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## geezer (May 30, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> Thanks Tony!  My marketing mentor has a saying, "If only they knew you, they would invest in what you do"



Perhaps that's true. Unfortunately, I have no gift for sales or marketing. For me, and apparently for a lot of others here, "Sales-Speak" is instantly recognized, is perceived as insincere, and creates an immediate barrier of distrust between me and the person talking to me. Call me a knee jerk skeptic.

Fortunately for most salesmen, the majority of people respond differently. Example: Decades ago, as an undergraduate majoring in social anthropology, I learned about the concept or social _reciprocity_. In most societies, if you do a favor or offer a gift to another, they will fell obligated to _reciprocate_ and return a similar favor. This sense of debt in return for a _sincere_ favor is part of the glue that binds people in society together.

Salesmen, traders, politicians, and others long ago learned how to exploit this principle. They will offer trivial gifts and gestures of hospitality to create that sense of indebtedness in the person they are targeting as a "foot in the door" for their pitch. How many sales pitches begin with a "free-offer", a free dinner, or even a simple gesture of hospitality such as a cup of coffee and a donut when you sit down with the car salesman?

Typically, these individuals have no personal interest in _you. _Their gift is_ a calculated  investment _designed to exploit our instinct to reciprocate to create an opening for their self-interested pitch. The truly _good salesman_ is looking for a honest win-win deal which benefits both him and the customer. The buyer may then become a repeat customer, or at least "spread the word" and recruit new customers. Unfortunately, in today's large, impersonal society with a continually changing body of customers, the good salesman is often replaced by the _successful salesman _who is interested only in closing the deal to his own advantage -- and let the customer be damned.

This kind of behavior, exploiting the principle of reciprocity, breaks down the basic social ties that bond us together and replaces trust and unity with distrust and divisiveness. In other words, welcome to the _modern world. _A world dominated by con-men, their marks, and the rest of us , the _cautious, skeptical survivors. _Nothing personal Don. Just _social self-defense. _


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## Tony Dismukes (May 30, 2016)

geezer said:


> Perhaps that's true. Unfortunately, I have no gift for sales or marketing. For me, and apparently for a lot of others here, "Sales-Speak" is instantly recognized, is perceived as insincere, and creates an immediate barrier of distrust between me and the person talking to me. Call me a knee jerk skeptic.
> 
> Fortunately for most salesmen, the majority of people respond differently. Example: Decades ago, as an undergraduate majoring in social anthropology, I learned about the concept or social _reciprocity_. In most societies, if you do a favor or offer a gift to another, they will fell obligated to _reciprocate_ and return a similar favor. This sense of debt in return for a _sincere_ favor is part of the glue that binds people in society together.
> 
> ...



Other bits of sales manipulation:

Leading with questions that you know will be answered "yes" in order to get the mark to ultimately answer "yes" to buying your product. Would you like the ability to protect yourself and your loved ones in a dangerous world? Yes! Would you like a secret technique that will empower you to succeed in all areas of life? Yes! Are you too busy to spend years working on this? Would you like to learn this ability and this secret in one weekend? Yes! Now would you like to sign up for my upcoming seminar?...

A related method is to get the prospective customer to identify with an imagined goal before sharing the details of your product that you suggest will get them to that goal. Years ago I had a friend come by to try selling me on a MLM scheme, along with her "mentor" who was guiding her through the process. Before he would tell me any details of the actual scheme, he made me go through the rigmarole of asking how much extra income I would want if I could have whatever I wanted and what I would spend that money on. The whole point was to manipulate me into imbuing the MLM nonsense he was selling with my emotional feelings about my monetary fantasies. I have an allergic reaction to that kind of manipulation, but it must work on some people.

Appeal to popularity is another trick. Thousands of people have come to my lectures! I must be an expert. Hundreds of people have come to my seminars! They must be good.

Associating with authority or celebrity in hopes of picking up some of their cachet is another option. Certain instructors living in the D.C. area have made a point of advertising their connections with politicians. Other instructors in California do the same thing with famous actors. Don's website has a page displaying the logos of a bunch of major news media organizations on his seminar page next to the description of him as "a nationally and internationally recognized speaker." There's no actual explanation for the presence of those logos, but the intended subconscious message is that these media must have reported on him and vouch for his expertise.

Don might be an excellent instructor* and his seminars might be good (if overpriced), but I'm with geezer in reacting poorly to this sort of manipulation.

*(Since opting to stick around and participate in other threads, Don has made comments which show me that he does have some knowledge and experience as a martial artist. As I noted earlier, nothing on the website or in his initial comments in this thread actually gave me any evidence of this.)


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## geezer (May 30, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> ...Don might be an excellent instructor* and his seminars might be good (if overpriced), but I'm with geezer in reacting poorly to this sort of manipulation.
> 
> *(Since opting to stick around and participate in other threads, Don has made comments which show me that he does have some knowledge and experience as a martial artist. As I noted earlier, nothing on the website or in his initial comments in this thread actually gave me any evidence of this.)



I've known and even trained under martial artists who believed in practiced the same kind of salesmanship that you describe in your post above. One in particular is very good in the system he practices, is a great instructor, and although he is pricey, he is a very honest businessman. But he really believes in selling himself in a way that would never work for me. He has tried repeatedly to get me to adopt similar practices, and to this day can't understand why I won't adopt them. 

To him, my reluctance to get out there and SELL is almost like a character flaw  ...otherwise we are friends. From _my_ perspective, his use of these kinds of sales tactics is almost like a character flaw in a person I otherwise like and respect. 

What can I say. It's almost like religion or politics. We are who we are.


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## lklawson (May 31, 2016)

geezer said:


> Fortunately for most salesmen, the majority of people respond differently. Example: Decades ago, as an undergraduate majoring in social anthropology, I learned about the concept or social _reciprocity_. In most societies, if you do a favor or offer a gift to another, they will fell obligated to _reciprocate_ and return a similar favor. This sense of debt in return for a _sincere_ favor is part of the glue that binds people in society together.


It's why the Hare Krishna's used to give away flowers at the airport.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (May 31, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> My events in Chesterton IN are only four hours from you.  I guarantee it will be worth your time.  I would love to get your input.  The next event is June 25 & 26.  Let me know if you'd like to attend with a guest, as my gift.  I'm looking forward to having respected experts attend and post their experience on this thread.


I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to drive that far.  I do appreciate your willingness to extend the offer.  Let me know if you have an even in the Dayton are.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Don Johnson (Jun 1, 2016)

More proof.  This is a group of 90 people who chose to come to my school at 7:30a.m. on Memorial Day for my 6th annual Memorial Day Mega Calorie Crush.  That's me front and center in all black wearing the microphone.  They got a great workout and learned some basic self defense skills.  Nearly 70 are regular attendees in our weekly classes, another 20 were guests.  No doubt some of the guests will now become regular attendees.  

For over 25 years, I've been "criticized and condemned" by others, and 99% of them have been others in my industry, not my clients.  My first year as a full time martial arts school owner in 1991, I attracted over 150 students per week to attend my classes.  By the mid 1990's, there were over 500 students attending my classes weekly.  Martial Arts Business magazine selected my school among the top 100 schools from among over 30,000 in North America.  That doesn't just happen.  It requires sales and marketing to attract people, then delivering a great service for them to stay and refer others.  I've done hundreds of presentations to tens of thousands, combined with basic sales and marketing.  I've been on tv, radio, and in newspapers for over 25 years.  As a result, I've personally helped thousands of students.  Now I'm teaching people across the U.S., and some internationally, to literally save their life and save their family.  

You can criticize me and sales and marketing strategies all you want.  You may exercise _social self defense_ and question the validity of a salesperson's claims.  You may even question a salesman's true intentions.  To the skeptical, it may sound as though I over promise.  To my students, they believe I over deliver.  The proof...hundreds of testimonials.  My students can't all be lying.  Bottom line, I'm helping a lot of people.  They benefit, and so do I.  A man much smarter than I once said that "You can have anything in life you want, if you'll help enough other people to get what they want."

You may be the best martial artist in the world, but if others don't know about you, you can't help them.  If you've ever taught another person, you likely discovered that you learn more when you teach.  Imagine how much better you could become if you too had taught thousands.

I appreciate the _constructive feedback_ that has been offered in this thread that will empower me to improve my ability to attract others.


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## mograph (Jun 1, 2016)

Arguably, the first rule of persuasion is _know your audience_.


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## lklawson (Jun 1, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> View attachment 19909
> More proof.  This is a group of 90 people who chose to come to my school


Argumentum ad populum.  Just because a lot of people agree with your position doesn't mean it's true.  There are millions of people who believe in Creationism and there are millions of people who believe the Big Bang.  It's unlikely that both are right, but millions of people can't be wrong, right?

No offense, truly, but getting another group of 90 (or even 900) students isn't really "proof."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## mograph (Jun 1, 2016)

lklawson said:


> Argumentum ad populum.  Just because a lot of people agree with your position doesn't mean it's true.  [...] No offense, truly, but getting another group of 90 (or even 900) students isn't really "proof."


To put a finer point on it, all we can really say with any certainty is that the attendees enjoyed the workshops enough to come back. It looks as if they got a good workout, the atmosphere was fun, and they got to "mix it up" a fair bit. But would they be able to defend themselves _outside of class_, if surprised by an aggressive assailant, for example? If that is the promise of the class, it would be great to see -- please send a link if I've missed that. 

_Argumentum ad populum_ reminds me of course evaluations, where a popular professor who is friendly, has good energy (and challenges the students to a level _they_ find engaging) gets good evaluations, independent of the fulfillment of the course's learning objectives.
Student Course Evaluations Get An 'F'


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 1, 2016)

mograph said:


> Arguably, the first rule of persuasion is _know your audience_.


This is an excellent point.

The sales techniques we've discussed (like them or hate them) are probably quite effective for Don with his normal target audience.

Here, with an audience of subject matter experts, they're not likely to be so effective. Especially for those of us who recognize the manipulations and logical fallacies inherent in those techniques and dislike them.

On the other hand, I have travelled some distance and paid out money for seminars from a couple of our members here. I did this because I knew based on their participation here what they were offering, what their qualifications were, and a bit about what sort of person they were. If Don hopes to sell any of us on the value of what he's offering, his best bet is to establish his bona fides by offering intelligent, informed comments in the conversations here. To his credit, he seems to be working on that.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 1, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> View attachment 19909
> More proof.  This is a group of 90 people who chose to come to my school at 7:30a.m. on Memorial Day for my 6th annual Memorial Day Mega Calorie Crush.  That's me front and center in all black wearing the microphone.



George Dillman also attracts a lot of people, many of whom believe his "no touch knockout" nonsense is true.
Being able to sell something doesn't mean the something has value.
PT Barnum said it best.

You've dropped a few names, but you've never actually told us what your training, experience and rank is, nor who awarded said rank.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> You've dropped a few names, but you've never actually told us what your training, experience and rank is, nor who awarded said rank.


He did state experience and training, but not rank/who awarded it

"33 years TaeKwonDo and Hapkido. 21 years Kali and Jujitsu."


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## Tony Dismukes (Jun 1, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> He did state experience and training, but not rank/who awarded it
> 
> "33 years TaeKwonDo and Hapkido. 21 years Kali and Jujitsu."


He also listed a bunch of people he's learned from, but not specified whether he actually trained with them or for how long. I asked the following questions last week but never got an answer:



Tony Dismukes said:


> 1) What martial arts instructors have you actually studied under as an official student on a consistent basis? Not instructors where you attended a seminar or read a book or watched a video or had a conversation with - instructors where you actually showed up at their school every week on an ongoing basis?
> 2) How many years did you train with said instructors?
> 3) What ranks or certifications do you have from those instructors indicating that they stand behind your competencies in the material that they teach?



To be clear, having rank is neither necessary nor sufficient evidence for someone being a good teacher. There are high-ranked people out there who are terrible instructors and low-ranked/unranked people who are good instructors. What rank does tell you is that a certain instructor out there is willing to vouch for the achievements of the ranked person within a particular art. If you know something about the instructor awarding the rank, that may tell you something useful.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Tony Dismukes said:


> He also listed a bunch of people he's learned from, but not specified whether he actually trained with them or for how long. I asked the following questions last week but never got an answer:
> 
> 
> 
> To be clear, having rank is neither necessary nor sufficient evidence for someone being a good teacher. There are high-ranked people out there who are terrible instructors and low-ranked/unranked people who are good instructors. What rank does tell you is that a certain instructor out there is willing to vouch for the achievements of the ranked person within a particular art. If you know something about the instructor awarding the rank, that may tell you something useful.


I agree with all of this, just pointing out that he did list definitive arts and a definitive time period


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2016)

Don Johnson said:


> View attachment 19909
> More proof.  This is a group of 90 people who chose to come to my school at 7:30a.m. on Memorial Day for my 6th annual Memorial Day Mega Calorie Crush.  That's me front and center in all black wearing the microphone.  They got a great workout and learned some basic self defense skills.  Nearly 70 are regular attendees in our weekly classes, another 20 were guests.  No doubt some of the guests will now become regular attendees.
> 
> For over 25 years, I've been "criticized and condemned" by others, and 99% of them have been others in my industry, not my clients.  My first year as a full time martial arts school owner in 1991, I attracted over 150 students per week to attend my classes.  By the mid 1990's, there were over 500 students attending my classes weekly.  Martial Arts Business magazine selected my school among the top 100 schools from among over 30,000 in North America.  That doesn't just happen.  It requires sales and marketing to attract people, then delivering a great service for them to stay and refer others.  I've done hundreds of presentations to tens of thousands, combined with basic sales and marketing.  I've been on tv, radio, and in newspapers for over 25 years.  As a result, I've personally helped thousands of students.  Now I'm teaching people across the U.S., and some internationally, to literally save their life and save their family.
> ...


That's a huge class.  I only wish I could get that many, people to the Jow Ga classes. I already know up front that our target market is a small one. I've been talking to people like you in an effort to learn of ways that may help to attract more people who don't mind bruises.


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

In contrast. a mate of mine is doing a wrestling seminar for $80 a day. 

Which would lift anybody's sd game through the roof.


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## Blindside (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> In contrast. a mate of mine is doing a wrestling seminar for $80 a day.
> 
> Which would lift anybody's sd game through the roof.



Yeah but it wouldn't be a "mega calorie crush."


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> In contrast. a mate of mine is doing a wrestling seminar for $80 a day.
> 
> Which would lift anybody's sd game through the roof.



It can't be any good, because it's reasonably priced. I bet it won't even make you unbeatable in all situations, prevent diabetes, and regrow hair on a bald mans head!


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## drop bear (Jun 1, 2016)

That is the thing with a seminar though.  For the big money i would want to be blown away by the concepts and techniques. 

I dont want to pay for eye gouge.  I can figure out eye gouge on my own. 

I would want a technical expert to give me the last ten percent on some basic ideas. 

Like with that seminar if i could walk away with how to do one move right It would be money well spent.  And  I have only met a couple of guys with the ability to do that. 

Regardless of the system


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 1, 2016)

drop bear said:


> That is the thing with a seminar though.  For the big money i would want to be blown away by the concepts and techniques.
> 
> I dont want to pay for eye gouge.  I can figure out eye gouge on my own.
> 
> ...


good insight.  I'll keep that in mind


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## Dakin (Apr 4, 2018)

Don Johnson said:


> Charged, but not convicted.



But Don, you just haven't gone to trial yet. You've done a great job on delaying that, by the way.


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