# Ghosts..........



## Bammx2 (May 6, 2005)

Just out of curiosuty, who here believes in ghosts and the paranormal?

And if so,why?
Do you have any personal experiences to share?

Personally...I have lived in 2 haunted houses here in the UK......and I am lookin for another
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am actually going to spend a little time in two very haunted castels later this summer as well.....
I can't wait!


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## MA-Caver (May 6, 2005)

I believe, but not in the stylized Hollywood versions of them. Occasionally I've lived in places where odd things went on. Light flickering for no sudden reason, odd little noises here and there when I'm the only person in the place, etc. 
A simple loud "Knock it off" to nothing and no-one in particular tends to put a stop to it.
I've seen ghosts and been in haunted places. One of them was even in a cave... didn't SEE it but definitely experienced it. 
Long story so mebbe when I have more time than I do tonight


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## Simon Curran (May 7, 2005)

Without going into details, I am a believer.


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## Bammx2 (May 7, 2005)

MACaver said:
			
		

> I believe, but not in the stylized Hollywood versions of them. Occasionally I've lived in places where odd things went on. Light flickering for no sudden reason, odd little noises here and there when I'm the only person in the place, etc.
> A simple loud "Knock it off" to nothing and no-one in particular tends to put a stop to it.
> I've seen ghosts and been in haunted places. One of them was even in a cave... didn't SEE it but definitely experienced it.
> Long story so mebbe when I have more time than I do tonight


In a cave?!
Oh dude....that had to be kool!
Do you know if there was any kind of a history to the cave you know of?


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## RandomPhantom700 (May 7, 2005)

Nah really man, I swear this one time I was walking through this old house, and when I slammed the door the window on the complete other side of the room rattled, and when I looked I saw this light pass through the window that so looked like my dead cat.  I mean, I didn't see it, but...but I experienced it.


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## Drac (May 7, 2005)

Yes..Here is one example: My good friend passed away a few years ago..He was in the mobile DJ business and his garage was filled with 100's of items related to his business...In the Spring folowing his death I went to the garage to take inventory, the large door was open as was the smaller entrance door..I found a light show that had built against a back wall.
I looked at it wondering how I could use in the shows I was booking..I looked up at the heavens and said out loud "Ya know Bill, you could have left a list of instructions". With that the small door slammed shut with such a force I jumped outta my skin..One a warm ,windless day the slamming shook the whole garage..I never said a nother thing to him..


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## evenflow1121 (May 7, 2005)

At my parents house, when I lived there, when I was younger both of my parents and my sister claim to have seen a paranormal being wondering about. To their description it was a dark shadowy figure, but to this day and they still live there they have never had a negative issue with it.  Upon some investigation about the home's history, we discovered through a neighbor that some guy had hung himself inside the house some years before we purchased it. I have never seen anything however.  As for believing in them sure I believe there is something out there.  In fact, most of my friends have had some sort of paranormal experience somewhere at some point in their lives.


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## rmcpeek (May 7, 2005)

Nope. I don't believe in any of it. I have never seen anything in my life to suggest it.


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## Bammx2 (May 9, 2005)

I lived in a 300 year old converted travellers pub.
and some of the travellers still come by.

 I did have one friend who lived in a house that use to be a methodist church in the 1800's back in NC.
 The grounds keeper of old still watches over the house....closing windows when it rained and such.
Even played with the answering machine.Tryin to figure out how it worked I guess.
My brothers and I stayed there on seperate nights each and could hear kids playin in the hall way.
My one brother even heard them singing "ring around the rosie"...
of course,there was no kids anywhere near the house.specially at 4 am.
 The owners had a lady friend who refused to come back to visit just cause "someone" goosed her a good one!


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## Bammx2 (May 9, 2005)

no one else?


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## elder999 (May 9, 2005)

When I first moved to Los Alamos, I lived in the "House at Otowi Bridge" for about 4 years.


There's a couple of books about it:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0826302815/103-3988798-8562240?v=glance

I don't have time to tell it all right now (maybe tonight or tomorrow I will)...but it's *quite* haunted. Guy who moved in after me moved out because of it being "haunted", and it's stayed vacant since then........


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## jfarnsworth (May 9, 2005)

I am a believer. :asian:


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## RandomPhantom700 (May 9, 2005)

If you couldn't tell from my previous post, I don't believe in ghosts.  I think there's nothing more to them then vivid fantasies that imaginative people jump to when they're bored, scared, or can't deal with that fact that a favorite grandmother or pet cat died.  "I still see signs that Fluffy is in the house...her food bowl appears out of nowhere, I see shadows passing where she used to cuddle my feet...ITS ALMOST LIKE SHE'S THERE".  Most of the signs and anecdotal accounts of ghost citings are things that could easily be explained by a number of different phenomenon, I just don't understand what drives people to say that it's obviously a ghost.  

Sorry if I ruined everyone's little seance(sp).  Continue.


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## Bammx2 (May 10, 2005)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> If you couldn't tell from my previous post, I don't believe in ghosts. I think there's nothing more to them then vivid fantasies that imaginative people jump to when they're bored, scared, or can't deal with that fact that a favorite grandmother or pet cat died. "I still see signs that Fluffy is in the house...her food bowl appears out of nowhere, I see shadows passing where she used to cuddle my feet...ITS ALMOST LIKE SHE'S THERE". Most of the signs and anecdotal accounts of ghost citings are things that could easily be explained by a number of different phenomenon, I just don't understand what drives people to say that it's obviously a ghost.
> 
> Sorry if I ruined everyone's little seance(sp). Continue.


 I understand completely where you are comming form.
And for the most part,I agree.

But I am still waiting to the genius explaination of me actualy seeing,with my own eyes, a man dressed in 17th century attire who was looking eye to eye with me...then walk straight thru a wall in chillingham castle.
 Or the ghost I saw at hughenden manor that just faded into thin air as I watched.
Not mention actually being touched by a ghost once....
But thats MY experiences.....so far


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## RandomPhantom700 (May 10, 2005)

*Shrugs*

I have no idea what caused those citings, I wasn't there.  Maybe you were hallucinating or imagining things. Coulda been a practical joke.  Coulda been a trick of the light.  Maybe you'd recently heard a story or had some other experience that left you biased to see a ghost where there really isn't one.  

There are countless possible explanations, but think about what "it was a ghost" implies.  It implies that there are souls floating around, that these souls are somehow stuck to certain spots or locations or persons, that they still identify with their previous lives, that only certain people can see these manifestations of a spirit, etc. etc.  There's no reason to believe any of this stuff that's necessary for ghosts to exist.  People make all these presumptions when they say that what they observed was a ghost, as opposed to a hallucination, a trick of the light, or any other explanation.  I just can't ignore those presumptions.


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## ed-swckf (May 10, 2005)

i like the idea, ghost stories and haunted houses remind me of being a kid but i don't believe, for me its all entertainment.


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## Rynocerous (May 10, 2005)

Yes I am a believer and I have experienced some very creepy stuff. Although I believe that the human imagination plays a huge role in most "sightings" but once you experience it first hand you are a believer for life. Muahahahaha.:bow: 


Cheers,

Ryno


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## DavidCC (May 10, 2005)

I don't believe it either but...

I was in Key West Florida last year and we took the "Haunted Tour", a nice little walking tour around the old town of Key West, visiting spots that have some kind of "haunted history".  I saw it as a good reason to take a walk on a warm fall night in the tropics  (if you are ever in Key West you should really do this tour).

So one of the more boring spots we stopped at was a church that had been renovated as a night club and had since been vacant for years.  Story was, there were some orphans living there (as a chruch) and one night the preacher for whatever reason started a fire that gutted the building (it was brick so it was remodeled as a club).

8 children died in the fire.

So I took some picture sof the place, as I did all the places we visited.

When we got home and were viewing the pictures on my big-screen TV, my sister-in-law noticed some of those weird color blobs that people refer to as "orbs" and that are generally thought of (by believers) to be evidence of ghosty stuff, which we had not seen when looking at the pics in the camera.

Everyone we asked (3 or 4 people there at my house) said they saw 8 orbs in the photo.  When we told then that was a building where 8 children were burned alive, we all agreed that was a very very strange coincidence (or, ghosts, depending on what you bleieve)


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## MA-Caver (May 10, 2005)

A lot of the Ghosts sites talk about ORBS and basically I've seen them in a lot of photos, particularly if there are dust particles in the air and it's a dark place. Take this picture for example. My friend rappelling into a pit and (mysterious music plays) three identifiable orbs are near her. Hmm, weird, to date there have been no reported deaths in this cave since it was discovered in the 70's. 

Yours is an interesting coinencidence for sure 8 children and 8 orbs that are in the pic. Trick is to take two pictures of the same spot and see if the orbs are still there and in the same place. Oh wait, spirits move around like dust motes too don't they?   
There are unexplained things in photographs from time to time. As for yours I'd say it's the same with what's going on here. 
Neat story though thanks for sharing.


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## Bammx2 (May 10, 2005)

speaking of orbs....

digital cameras are supposed to be the best to capture them. just fyi...


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## kenpo tiger (May 10, 2005)

I have worked in historic houses (over 100 years old each) for the past ten-plus years.  Are there ghosts?  You bet, but not Casper-the-Friendly-Ghost types.


To wit:
1)  My office in the first house was in what used to be the servants' wing.  I would know that the former owner of the house was in the room because of the smell of cigar smoke, along with a shift in the air currents.  A very benevolent spirit, just checking to make sure I was raising enough money to keep his house intact.
2)  The lady of that same house showed herself in various ways.  One of my friends lived on the thrid floor in the wing which housed my office.  She was responsible for security of the house -- checking windows, locks on doors, setting the alarms-- in lieu of paying rent.  One year around Christmas time she went out to do some shopping, realized that she wasn't sure she'd set the alarm in the main area of the house, and got back there as soon as she could.  When entering the front hallway to check the alarm, she felt a presence behind her, and turned to see the lady of the house standing there, shaking a finger at her.
3)  That same lady manifested her presence late one evening to me and three other people.  The right to have a dinner party in the house was won at auction by a young Yuppie couple, who invited five other couples to dine with them.  They became a bit inebriated (good wine was included with dinner) and, as a result, felt good and demonstrated such by getting rather loud.  They also stayed past the agreed-upon time.  I went in to request that they wrap things up a couple of times, and we four decided to wait them out in the front hall (see above.)  We were all in each other's view the entire time, during which the partiers turned on a boombox with some rather, er, raucous music.  We asked them to please turn it down, the answer was "Why?  Is Mrs. So-and-So going to object? (hahahahahaha)"  I left the room they were in, came back and sat down with my security guard and two helpers -- all men, by the way.  At that moment, the lights went out in the house and the music went off.  They all left a few minutes later, quite shaken.

Old houses have old wiring.  During warmer weather brown-outs occur.

None of the above applies in that situation.  

Draw your own conclusions.


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## Gemini (May 10, 2005)

The closest thing to a ghost I've seen is Casper, but I do beleive they can exist. Why not? 
 I want to go to the Tower of London because I've heard it's the most haunted building in the world. I just don't want to see one in my own house.


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## MA-Caver (May 11, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> speaking of orbs....
> 
> digital cameras are supposed to be the best to capture them. just fyi...


Well umm, just FYI, the pic I posted was taken by a disposable 35mm camera. I've seen "orbs" appear in the pics of digitals and really it's just either dust motes in the air or moisture on the lens. 
In one caving pic (trying to find it) I'm surrounded by dozens of these things. It's a dusty cave during the dry season. So it's not a supernatural phenomeon. Sigh.


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## Simon Curran (May 11, 2005)

OK, it may just be the power of suggestion, but...

An ex girlfriend and I once took a "Haunted tour" of Edinburgh in Scotland, most of it was pretty inimpressive, until we went underground into the old city.
In there was a chamber, which is said to be haunted by the horned one himself, there are also various other stories about people having burned to death in the chamber, and some plague victims having died in there, and some other stuff I don't remember.
All I can say, is that even through my "I'm a big 'ard bugger, I'll go in" bravado, I could not bring myself to take more than one step into the chamber, and if I said that chills ran down my spine, that would probably be the understatement of all time.


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## Bammx2 (May 11, 2005)

MACaver said:
			
		

> Well umm, just FYI, the pic I posted was taken by a disposable 35mm camera. I've seen "orbs" appear in the pics of digitals and really it's just either dust motes in the air or moisture on the lens.
> In one caving pic (trying to find it) I'm surrounded by dozens of these things. It's a dusty cave during the dry season. So it's not a supernatural phenomeon. Sigh.


 I gotcha.
I was just saying that in a lot of camparisons,for some reason,digital seems to pick things like up a little better.
 I do know that regular film cameras have picked unexplainable things such as orbs as well.
Heck...tin types have!
Personally,being an amateur photog buff.....I can't stand digital.
Its to easy for people to "cheat" and not really develop a decent eye for pictures.No real creativity.
 But I am investing to see if I pick up anything at some these haunted places.

 I have been told about the tower of london.
I had a friend who got me into Madame Tousauds wax museum after hours......
man,THAT was creepy at 3am!!!


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## Simon Curran (May 11, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> I have been told about the tower of london.
> I had a friend who got me into Madame Tousauds wax museum after hours......
> man,THAT was creepy at 3am!!!


The Tower isn't really all that creepy in my experience, I used to walk past it at all times of night on the way to see an ex girlfriend (she lived in Tower Hamlets, and I in the West End for those who are interested...) and didn't particularly notice anything except a profound sense of history.


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## Bammx2 (May 11, 2005)

SIMONCURRAN said:
			
		

> The Tower isn't really all that creepy in my experience, I used to walk past it at all times of night on the way to see an ex girlfriend (she lived in Tower Hamlets, and I in the West End for those who are interested...) and didn't particularly notice anything except a profound sense of history.


I kinda thought so.
I'm one of those people who hate doing the "tourist" thing.
Hence the wax museum at 2 am.
If I was to go the tower...I'd have to go after hours when there was no one inside.
But since you have to be "connected" and I'm not....yet.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




I don't see that happening anytime soon!
I have been past there like you said,at night, and nothing.
It just looks kool!


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## Simon Curran (May 11, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> It just looks kool!


Most definately, and traitors gate is kind of sweet in a morbid sense...


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## heretic888 (May 11, 2005)

Given the actual nature of the "soul" (if you feel the need to call "it" that), I can't find myself believing in the existence of a disembodied personal ego that magically sustains one's memories, personalities, attachments, and (apparently) previous appearance. In fact, given what we now know concerning the impact of socio-cultural conditioning on the "self", as well as the influences of genetic and other biological factors, it seems pretty damn ridiculous.

I do, however, have an abundant reserve of belief in both the existence and power of the human unconscious.  

:supcool:


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## kenpo tiger (May 14, 2005)

heretic888 said:
			
		

> Given the actual nature of the "soul" (if you feel the need to call "it" that), I can't find myself believing in the existence of a disembodied personal ego that magically sustains one's memories, personalities, attachments, and (apparently) previous appearance. In fact, given what we now know concerning the impact of socio-cultural conditioning on the "self", as well as the influences of genetic and other biological factors, it seems pretty damn ridiculous.
> 
> I do, however, have an abundant reserve of belief in both the existence and power of the human unconscious.
> 
> :supcool:


Spoilsport.

So, if you ever get out this way, I'll take you to the places I referred to in my post and we'll see.  Some things can't be explained away logically Herrie.


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## RandomPhantom700 (May 14, 2005)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Spoilsport.
> 
> So, if you ever get out this way, I'll take you to the places I referred to in my post and we'll see. Some things can't be explained away logically Herrie.


Which doesn't even suggest the existence of gods, spirits, demons, or whatever other supernatural fantasies people impose on anomolous observations. Because that's all that most of these anecdotal stories are, unexplained observations. 

I am curious, though, why those who jump to supernatural conclusions always accuse those who posit logical possibilities of trying to "explain things away"...


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## tshadowchaser (May 14, 2005)

I belive in gosts.  Been in more than a few places where I belive gosts als where.  SOme good stories to teel but only in person.


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## Bammx2 (May 15, 2005)

RandomPhantom700 said:
			
		

> Which doesn't even suggest the existence of gods, spirits, demons, or whatever other supernatural fantasies people impose on anomolous observations. Because that's all that most of these anecdotal stories are, unexplained observations.
> 
> I am curious, though, why those who jump to supernatural conclusions always accuse those who posit logical possibilities of trying to "explain things away"...


This is changing the subject.
BUT.....
Why can't these people accept the fact  that there are things they can't "explain away"?
Why does there always have to be a "loigcal" explaination for eveything?
I posted earlier  about 2 ghosts I have ssen first hand.
I don't drink alcohol of anykind,I don't do drugs.I have no brain diseases.
There was no "atmosphereic" conditions to make any effect...no one was trying to "control my brain with a micro wave oven"....
I saw what I saw.....GHOSTS!
And another reason I have seen ghosts.....
I have gone and searched them out first hand.
Not sit back and go..."aw...I can explain that locically".
There will ALWAYS  be things science will never be able to explain.


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## Adept (May 15, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> But I am still waiting to the genius explaination of me actualy seeing,with my own eyes, a man dressed in 17th century attire who was looking eye to eye with me.


 The brain can do a lot of crazy things without actual sensory input.


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## Bammx2 (May 15, 2005)

Adept said:
			
		

> The brain can do a lot of crazy things without actual sensory input.


yep.it sure can.
I saw ghosts.
Why?
Because I search them out...
not explain them away.
I LIKE being scared...


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## Shodan (May 15, 2005)

Interesting thread here.  I believe ghosts exist.  Here's my thing......how could multiple people reportedly see the same ghostly figure at the same location without having heard of that particular being elsewhere......a description, etc.  If two un-related sightings happen and the same description is given by different people of the being....how could one deny there indeed is something there?  It eliminates the power of suggestion, funky lighting, atmospheric conditions, etc theories I think....does this make any sense?   :idunno:


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## heretic888 (May 25, 2005)

kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Spoilsport.



You're welcome.



			
				kenpo tiger said:
			
		

> Some things can't be explained away logically Herrie.



If by "explained away logically" you actually mean "not all phenomena are disclosed by formal-rational thought processes", then sure.

Unfortunately, parsimony demands that the ghost hypothesis is the least probable explanation for these phenomena. Projection, animistic indissociation, daydreaming, biochemical agents affecting mental processes, or mass hallucinations --- all of which have been supported by actual evidence and research --- are far more likely culprits. Hell, there's even the possibility that some people are just downright making this crap up. I dunno.

Once again, I wouldn't underestimate the power of the human unconscious. Many people report experiences of "Satanic child abuse" --- often involving the ritualistic murder of other children --- during the early years, yet the FBI still has not a shred of evidence concerning such events.

Personally, I think all these "ghost sightings" are unconscious projections of Ego Immortality, but that's just me...


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## redfang (May 25, 2005)

When I was a child I lived in an older house (Early 1900's) that was haunted.  My mother, my brother and me all saw, heard and felt a number of things in the six years we lived there.  Among them were actual sightings of two old woman who were often together and a young girl in a nightgown.  My brother who is 5 years my junior and doesn't remember some of this, would come downstairs and complain of that the old women were in his room when he was trying to play.  We also had more instances of heavy thuds, footsteps and the sounds of things being dragged in parts of the house where no one was than I can count.  When we had been in the house for about 5 years.  The granddaughter of the builder of the house showed up.  We had never met her and she had been living in Minnesota (We were in Ohio) and had been having persistant dreams about the house, sufficient to make her fly out and see it.  She told us about her two great aunts that had lived in my brothers room and her young cousin that had lived in my room and died at 10.  There was more, this is a brief summary.  I tend to be a rational, skeptical person, but I've never been able to convince myself that of anything other than that the house still contained echos or some kind remnant of it's former inhabitants.


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## hemi (May 25, 2005)

Well its late and I have a stripe test tomorrow night but when I saw this post I had to respond.  Do I believe in ghosts YES? Do I believe in supernatural yes, having grown up 10 miles from anything, many, many strange things have happened? My Dad was one the biggest skeptics in the world until he witnessed a few things himself. 



I really need to hit the sack but would love to talk more about some of the things I have experienced and things others have seen.


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