# Some of you are getting ridiculous.



## streetwise (Mar 31, 2003)

For years the bickering and "lineage" feuds in Wing Chun made them the joke of the CMA community. Many people seem determined to put Modern Arnis above them on the "collection of fools" list in the general MA world. 
  I have worked with people from 5 diferent WC organizations, and I got something from all of them. I have trained with folks from a baker's dozen of FMA groups, and all but one had something to teach, and even the one was a type of learning experience. What someone calls their group, or the head of their group, is not only meaningless, it is no business of anyone from outside that group. 
  I know Jeff Delaney personally, and he is a very good teacher. I know what GM Presas said about him, to me, in private. And I know what he said about some of the other "system leaders" in MA. I won't repeat the bad things he said about some, since they MEAN NOTHING. I will say that he spoke very highly of Jeff, and that Jeff speaks highly of many of the folks who seem obsessed with talking bad about him, since the GM's death. Train, practice, and above all have fun (since, hopefully, you will have far more days without a stick fight, than you wil have days with one!). Who really cares about the politics!

And before any more internet challenges are slung around, I will train with anyone, but offers to come and show me whose paperwork is more legit, will be met with the laughter they deserve.


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## Phil Elmore (Mar 31, 2003)

How To Win Friends And Influence People


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## streetwise (Mar 31, 2003)

Ha, an excellent book! Let me add, that I am not even a member of ANY of the Modern Arnis groups, and while I practica FMA as part of my training, I really do not train in Modern Arnis, as a system.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by streetwise _
> *For years the bickering and "lineage" feuds in Wing Chun made them the joke of the CMA community. Many people seem determined to put Modern Arnis above them on the "collection of fools" list in the general MA world.
> I have worked with people from 5 diferent WC organizations, and I got something from all of them. I have trained with folks from a baker's dozen of FMA groups, and all but one had something to teach, and even the one was a type of learning experience. What someone calls their group, or the head of their group, is not only meaningless, it is no business of anyone from outside that group.
> I know Jeff Delaney personally, and he is a very good teacher. I know what GM Presas said about him, to me, in private. And I know what he said about some of the other "system leaders" in MA. I won't repeat the bad things he said about some, since they MEAN NOTHING. I will say that he spoke very highly of Jeff, and that Jeff speaks highly of many of the folks who seem obsessed with talking bad about him, since the GM's death. Train, practice, and above all have fun (since, hopefully, you will have far more days without a stick fight, than you wil have days with one!). Who really cares about the politics!
> ...




Streetwise,

I have a problem with JD. Some of it being the web-site. Some of it being the titles and ranks he has used and or given out. Some of it also is how he dealt with me. He personally told me I had no rank and that I would have to retest under him to be recognized and to have knowledge of Modern Arnis. He wanted to make sure I truly knew Modern Arnis (* His words *) I guess from his point of view. He then gave me the sales pitch to come and sign up at the web site and give him money. 

He started in the early or mid 90's and is now a GM? I started before him, and have trained slowly and sure. Yes he could be better then me, in shorter time. Just that I do not believe it. MY Opinion here. So, since I have no rank in Modern Arnis, I do not have to reconize him. I am also allowed to have opiions of people.

As for ill wishing, I never wished the man to get sick or get hurt, I have wished that he would treat people better then he treated me.

He made his opiion of me quite clear. So I have made mine of JD also Quite Clear.

Of all of the Groups, Independants, JD and his organization is the only one I do not wish to have contact with. My Choice. I might loose out on something. I might not.

So, if One of my posts upset, I am sorry it did. I was just expressing my opinion.

I wish there were more supported of JD here to give a point of view and to clear up some issues. Just my opinion.  For you see, without discourse conflicts cannot be resolved.

Have a nice day and keep posting and keep all of us honest.


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## streetwise (Apr 1, 2003)

Mr Parsons, what a well said and reasonable post, sir! I have no problem with people having a specific disagreement with Jeff (or anyone else).  I am an old friend who trained with him for years, but I was not his student, and I haven't seen him more than 2 or 3 times since GM Presas' death. I have just seen lots of people being really insulting and issuing "come and fight" challanges. I even got an email challenge after an earlier post about Jeff. I IN NO WAY promote Jeff's group, or any other group, I am just saying that Jeff is a good guy, personally, and a good martial artist with a huge amount of very diverse knowledge. I know almost nothing about his business practices, though next time I see him, I wil be teasing him about the whole "titles and rank" thing, since is one the most informal martial artists I have met. Plus, I owe him big time for paying my way to my first seminar with Carlos Machado, oh so many years ago, so the least I can do is stand up as someone who knows him.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by streetwise _
> *Mr Parsons, what a well said and reasonable post, sir! I have no problem with people having a specific disagreement with Jeff (or anyone else).  I am an old friend who trained with him for years, but I was not his student, and I haven't seen him more than 2 or 3 times since GM Presas' death. I have just seen lots of people being really insulting and issuing "come and fight" challanges. I even got an email challenge after an earlier post about Jeff. I IN NO WAY promote Jeff's group, or any other group, I am just saying that Jeff is a good guy, personally, and a good martial artist with a huge amount of very diverse knowledge. I know almost nothing about his business practices, though next time I see him, I wil be teasing him about the whole "titles and rank" thing, since is one the most informal martial artists I have met. Plus, I owe him big time for paying my way to my first seminar with Carlos Machado, oh so many years ago, so the least I can do is stand up as someone who knows him. *




Streetwise,

Always defend what you think is right. Just keep an open mind in case you are not. Or at least understand that others will differ from you just because.

And enjoy teasing him.

:asian:


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## progressivetactics (Apr 1, 2003)

I hope i'm not out of line here, but I wanted to  throw my 2cents in for what it is worth.  
I have only been in Mod Arnis for a short time, and only trained with JD 1 time.  He was very respectful of me, and spoke of other orginizations respectfully.  I have had some interaction with Lisa McManus and found her to be of extremely high charachter. I have seen a couple negative things wrote about her, which may or maynot have been true.  My experience was very good.  She is a talented person, good teacher, and she was EXTREMELY RESPECTFUL of many many Arnis people.  She mentioned many people I could also look for information from, some of which are a big part of the discussion board.

I have no way of knowing about the past, and the stories of you lucky ones who spent much time with the ORIGINAL grandmaster, professor presas.  I respect all of you, and your opinions.  I just wanted to stand up for JD and LM from my point of view.


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## Guro Harold (Apr 1, 2003)

I don't think anyone has anything personal against Mr. Delany or Ms McManus.  There have been only a few person type attacks their way.

It is not my job to recap the all the concerns that where raised but to put it in general terms, some people have been concerned how they have been doing business as of around mid to late 2000 until now.

However, there are some people, myself included, who do not feel comfortable about the GM title, the use of the title "Professor", and the rapid promotion of both of these individuals.

Are they nice people? Yes.  Would I speak to them? Yes.  Would I tell anyone not to train with them? No.  The only personal beef that I have against Jeff is his insistance on calling me "Howard", after four friggin years, daggumit, that makes me mad!!!:cuss:

BTW, Mr. Barker, with all due respect, how come you didn't also mention that you will be hosting Ms. McManus as well this next October?  That is the epitome of standing up for her as well.

Palusut


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## progressivetactics (Apr 1, 2003)

Didn't think it made much of a difference.  I hosted her last November for a 2 day clinic. That is when she spoke so nice of all the people she has met through Modern Arnis.  I will have another clinic this october with her.  I also have intensions of attending some other Arnis clinics outside the IMAF.  If the opportunity arises, I would orginize a clinic with them as well.  I am not bias. I simply want to learn, and teach.


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## Guro Harold (Apr 1, 2003)

"Didn't think it made much of a difference. I hosted her last November for a 2 day clinic."

Hi Mr. Barker,

It does in the fact of the commitment it takes to organize and host such an endeavor.

BTW, there are several talented people in Michigan for Arnis and Balintawak, some on MartialTalk, who I have had the pleasure to exchange ideas with.

Best of fortune in your efforts to introduce Modern Arnis in your area.

Palusut


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Palusut _
> *"Didn't think it made much of a difference. I hosted her last November for a 2 day clinic."
> 
> Hi Mr. Barker,
> ...




Talent? Where? You must be talking about Paul .

Mr. Parker, Paul is out of town now, yet, you should contact him, to see what he can offer you. He is much closer than I. I am up in Flint. Besides, Paul hosts Seminars and Camps in the past and he may do so in the future, if there is support from people like yourself. Contact him and I am sure something postive and constructive will come out of it.

Good Training to you.


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## redfive (Apr 1, 2003)

I think that Jeff D. just rubbed people the wrong way after the Proffessor died. He did say that our rank would not be recognized by him and that we had to re-test under him. I'm a 1st degree and my certificate was issued and signed By Remy and my formal instructor, Anding De Leon. Anding is a 4th degree under Remy and one of Remy's original students from the Philippines. So who is Jeff to say who is qualified and who is not, when most of the Modern Arnis players have been in the game twice as long as he has. So thats why alot of people said Put up or shut up. Get in the ring and show me what you got. Thats the real filipino way. 
 I have met Jeff and he is a nice guy, he just went about things the wrong way. Last year I met Tim Hartman at Anding's  school. There is a huge difference in skill levels. Tim is far ahead of Jeff, but Jeff is a GM. So thats another point that people dont like.That of having a title, but not the skill level of a majority of the people under you.

                                               Redfive


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by redfive _
> *Last year I met Tim Hartman at Anding's  school. There is a huge difference in skill levels. Tim is far ahead of Jeff, but Jeff is a GM.
> Redfive *



Thanks for the compliment. No other comments for now.

:asian:


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 4, 2003)

Jeff is taller than Tim...and has more hair than I do.  Ahhhh, such is life.
Dan


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## ace (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *Jeff is taller than Tim...and has more hair than I do.  Ahhhh, such is life.
> Dan *



.......


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## Cruentus (Apr 5, 2003)

Basically Rich has summed up my general opinion about JD's group. I've gotten pretty fired up about the issue before and I've said some things that might alude to me wishing him injury or death. I actually don't wish him or Lisa any bodily harm or extreme ill will; I just wish they would stop misrepresenting themselves. It's bad for the art that I have dedicated myself to. We can't just all train and "be happy" when people are out there lying about themselves, and misleading the populus about our system. There is no real check in balance system in the martial arts, and Modern Arnis would risk going down the drain in quality because of this if some of us didn't put our foot down and say "That isn't right!" I don't want to see our system go into the toilet because of a few lyers. 

Now, are Lisa and Jeff "nice". Of course, but that is their M.O. also. They will be very kind to you, and that is part of the P.R. tactic. One has to ask themself, however, what the motive is, and why they are so nice when it is clear that they are lying and misrepresenting themselves. I don't know the answer to this question; and I don't think I'll ever understand. All I know is that  con men have a nice even tone in their voice and a smile on their face when they are cheating you. So how nice is that, really? I sort of feel like they are conning the martial arts community by lying about themselves; and that is why I will make no apologies for anything I have said about them in the past for I feel that they had brought it upon themselves.

Bill Barker: Hi, how's it going? I have mentioned to you before that there really is a large array of skill in FMA in Michigan, and that I would be happy  to introduce you to anyone that I know. I will probably host more events in the future with the WMAA and Tim Hartman. I'll keep you updated on those, and you'd be welcomed to stop by. 

I should I have no problem with you wanting to host Lisa for  seminars; I won't support her events (and I think you know how I feel), but if it works for you then that's great. I would recommend, however, that you explore some of the talent from the other groups. I had met you before, and the invitation to get together is still open. I'll be back in Michigan This weekend. E-mail me private message here if you want me to give you a ring.

Sincerely,
Paul
Currently residing in the Big Apple


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Now, are Lisa and Jeff "nice". Of course, but that is their M.O. also. They will be very kind to you, and that is part of the P.R. tactic. One has to ask themself, however, what the motive is, and why they are so nice when it is clear that they are lying and misrepresenting themselves. I don't know the answer to this question; and I don't think I'll ever understand.
> Sincerely,
> Paul
> Currently residing in the Big Apple *



Paul, 
JD actually feels he is the current GM as dictated by Remy Presas.  I don't think, _in his own mind_, that he is lying or misrepresenting hmself.  The thing is that he doesn't have broad agreement with this designation amongst the Modern Arnis world.  That gives the apparancy that he is lying and so forth.  If you believe in your heart something is true, then it is true for you.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Apr 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> *Paul,
> JD actually feels he is the current GM as dictated by Remy Presas.  I don't think, in his own mind, that he is lying or misrepresenting hmself.  The thing is that he doesn't have broad agreement with this designation amongst the Modern Arnis world.  That gives the apparancy that he is lying and so forth.  If you believe in your heart something is true, then it is true for you.
> 
> ...



Ahh......So he is crazy then.

That is the only alternative. Either he is elaboratily lying, or he is crazy. The one thing he isn't is the grandmaster of Modern Arnis designated by Professor Presas. If he is crazy then I feel bad for him. 

I don't believe that he is crazy, unfortunatily. I think that he is elaboratily fabricating his credentials because he is looking for a meal ticket and a pay day, and he used Modern Arnis and the death of our instructor for this. He has also taken a few people with him. Hell, I have seen it happend before: a guy in his 50's with no real career path or clue decides to take advantage of a situation to make a buck.

I know that sounds insulting as all get up, and please understand that I'm not trying to be "insulting" just for the sake of itself. I am just being brutily honest. I just don't think that he is crazy. And as "nice" as he and Ms. McManus are in front of your face, I believe that this is just one elaborate marketing scheme.

I hope that I am wrong, though. Bottom line is: he is not the grandmaster, and what he does and says is bad for our art. So the question is, what are YOU going to do about it.("you" being ambigious for anyone in Modern Arnis) Are you going to support his organization? Are you going to be his buddy? Are you going to boycott him? That is a decision that each individual will have to deal with on their own.

Just my opinions, and sorry to offend.

Gotta go to a meeting now....

respectfully,
Paul Janulis
straight from the city that never sleeps


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## streetwise (Apr 8, 2003)

Paul, I really didn't want to do this, since I really don't care if you declare yourself "Great Ultimate Grand Master Poobah and Arbiter of All Rank in All Martial Arts, Yesterday, Today and Forever." Rank and titles don't impress me much, and I have been in martial arts longer than you have been alive. My turn to be honest, Jeff was given a co-successor title by GM Presas. Quibbling about that is insulting to his memory. Before he became ill, Remy Presas told me that he was starting to consider turning the operation of the seminar circuit over to Jeff, since he felt Jeff was very active, and would be willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to keep it going. There was no time frame mentioned, but the GM wanted to work on some personal dream projects, some of which were in the Phillipines. Jeff loses money when he is travelling and not able to run his contracting business, and GM Presas was impressed by his willingness to do this whenever he was asked. I don't talk to Jeff very often these days, and he would simply laugh at your odd obsession with him. Your attacks are more personal than any lineage feud warrants. He is neither lying nor crazy, I repeat my earlier advice, relax (how many instructors have told all of us that!), have fun, support or don't support whoever you choose. You are a young man, as you continue in martial training, you will find open doors of much more use than closed ones. You have changed my mind about one thing, I think I need to get my students, and the students of some of my friends, together and get behind Jeff's group. One thing I have learned, when you see an honorable man under attack, stand with him.


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## Mao (Apr 8, 2003)

Honorable?


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## streetwise (Apr 8, 2003)

Yes.


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## Mickey (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by streetwise _
> *Paul, I really didn't want to do this, since I really don't care if you declare yourself "Great Ultimate Grand Master Poobah and Arbiter of All Rank in All Martial Arts, Yesterday, Today and Forever." Rank and titles don't impress me much, and I have been in martial arts longer than you have been alive. My turn to be honest, Jeff was given a co-successor title by GM Presas. Quibbling about that is insulting to his memory. Before he became ill, Remy Presas told me that he was starting to consider turning the operation of the seminar circuit over to Jeff, since he felt Jeff was very active, and would be willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to keep it going. There was no time frame mentioned, but the GM wanted to work on some personal dream projects, some of which were in the Phillipines. Jeff loses money when he is travelling and not able to run his contracting business, and GM Presas was impressed by his willingness to do this whenever he was asked. I don't talk to Jeff very often these days, and he would simply laugh at your odd obsession with him. Your attacks are more personal than any lineage feud warrants. He is neither lying nor crazy, I repeat my earlier advice, relax (how many instructors have told all of us that!), have fun, support or don't support whoever you choose. You are a young man, as you continue in martial training, you will find open doors of much more use than closed ones. You have changed my mind about one thing, I think I need to get my students, and the students of some of my friends, together and get behind Jeff's group. One thing I have learned, when you see an honorable man under attack, stand with him. *




Streetwise sir,

With people in the States and out of the states with higher ranks then JD, and also doing their own seminars and camps. Maybe GM R Presas just wanted to put in place someone who could handle the seminar while he (RP) was recovering.

As to the Dream Project(s) and for the Republic of the PI, yes he wanted to buy some land and have a camp back there.

Mick


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## streetwise (Apr 8, 2003)

"he wanted to buy some land and have a camp back there." Yessir, that is one he talked very enthusiastically about!


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## Dan Anderson (Apr 8, 2003)

Dear Streetwise,
Your loyalty to Jeff is admirable.  Loyalty is a quality that most of us admire and try to instill in our own students.  From one who knew Prof. Presas for over 20 years, he got enthusiastic about a great many things which he never carried through on.  Oh well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Tapps (Apr 10, 2003)

Dear Streetwise,

in your original post you said:


> And before any more internet challenges are slung around, I will train with anyone, but offers to come and show me whose paperwork is more legit, will be met with the laughter they deserve.



Later you said:


> Jeff was given a co-successor title by GM Presas. Quibbling about that is insulting to his memory.



You present this as a widely accepted fact. I have disputed this from day one. I've never heard any supporting evidence from someone who had no vested interest.

Jeff is certainly qulified to teach his version of Modern Arnis. No dispute.

I DO dispute his use of the title of Grandmaster. I belive that Jeff is the one being disrespectful. You are free to disagree with me but I doubt you will ever change my mind.

As long as he uses that title, I have a personal issue with him.


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## streetwise (Apr 10, 2003)

And that is fine, sir! We can certainly disagree, and your issue was clearly and politely stated. Is ther really doubt about GM Presas' letter and statements designating "co-successors"? I thought the main question came later when Jeff went off on his own and started using a GM title? 

My problem is more with the folks who are being inordinately aggressive and disrespectful. And with the idea that a lineage dispute really matters anyway, like I said, check some of the CMA (Wing Chun is one of the funniest) groups over the years, you don't want Modern Arnis to end up like that, do you?


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by streetwise _
> * Is ther really doubt about GM Presas' letter and statements designating "co-successors"?  *



The problem is that the letter was not GM Presas'. He was in no condition to write one.:asian:


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## Mao (Apr 11, 2003)

Tim is, and this is frightening, correct. To the best of my knowledge there was no written statement, except a will. That is until the 5th degree certificates were signed by Remy.

still shocked at Tims accuracy,
MAO

Tim, I jest.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Apr 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mao _
> *Tim, I jest. *



I know. No problem. You got to love it when the Renegade is right!


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## moromoro (Apr 11, 2003)

WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK AT IT 
ONLY A FOOL WILL THINK THAT THE PROFESSOR WOULD CHOOSE HIM AS HIS SUCCESSOR.....


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## norshadow1 (Apr 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by streetwise _
> *Paul, I really didn't want to do this, since I really don't care if you declare yourself "Great Ultimate Grand Master Poobah and Arbiter of All Rank in All Martial Arts, Yesterday, Today and Forever." Rank and titles don't impress me much, and I have been in martial arts longer than you have been alive. My turn to be honest, Jeff was given a co-successor title by GM Presas. Quibbling about that is insulting to his memory. Before he became ill, Remy Presas told me that he was starting to consider turning the operation of the seminar circuit over to Jeff, since he felt Jeff was very active, and would be willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to keep it going. There was no time frame mentioned, but the GM wanted to work on some personal dream projects, some of which were in the Phillipines. Jeff loses money when he is travelling and not able to run his contracting business, and GM Presas was impressed by his willingness to do this whenever he was asked. I don't talk to Jeff very often these days, and he would simply laugh at your odd obsession with him. Your attacks are more personal than any lineage feud warrants. He is neither lying nor crazy, I repeat my earlier advice, relax (how many instructors have told all of us that!), have fun, support or don't support whoever you choose. You are a young man, as you continue in martial training, you will find open doors of much more use than closed ones. You have changed my mind about one thing, I think I need to get my students, and the students of some of my friends, together and get behind Jeff's group. One thing I have learned, when you see an honorable man under attack, stand with him. *



Dear Streetwise,

Why would you support mediority in Modern Arnis?  Jeff Delaney IS NOT that good!  He may be a Very Nice Person.  He might be An Honest Man.  He Might Be very willing to sacrifice his business, his family and his future in order to contine another man's dream.  He might not be a liar.  He might have told us the truth  about what the late GM Presas told him to do or the upgrading that he was awared.  But that does not change in any manner, shape or form the underlying principle - he IS NOT capable of doing Modern Arnis to highest quality standards of a significant number of other students of the art.  In addition, HE, Jeffery Delaney, broke the arrangement that HIS acknowledged GM 
forged when he created the MOTTS and the shared CO-SUCCESSOR system for the IMAF.  Yet I do not see anyone criticizing him on that issue.  That was a very disespectful act toward Professor Presas by Delaney.  

If indeed He were a Honorable Man, He Would Acknowledge That he is not the top instructor in Modern Arnis..  If indeed He were an Honorable Man, He NEVER Would Have Taken It Upon Himself To Use the Title "Grand Master of Modern Arnis".

It is a tribute to YOU that you would defend Jeff Delaney when so many others want to pillary him.  However I fail to see how you can offer to help him spread "His Modern Arnis Mediocity" simply because many others see him for what he really is.  He is a person of limited ability and experience in Modern Arnis.  He IS NOT a grand master of anything.  If He wants to teach "Delaney style Modern Arnis", that is not a problem.  But calling himself the Successor to and Grand Master of the Remy A. Presas Modern Arnis System, is a travesty.  It is the kind of thing that a less than hororable man would do.  I consider honest and honorable to be different.  Someone can be very honest while acting is a less than honroable manner.

Lamont
(No high rank, no titles)


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## norshadow1 (Apr 11, 2003)

No Paul, JD is not crazy.  He has taken advantage of some hasty and contrived arrangements ushed in by the sever and hash illness that befell the Professor Presas.  Some others, for their own private reasons have chosen to support and prop him up.  None of them are crazy.  But all of them are going to avoid any  or all  situations where they would have to share training time with anyone from outside of their closed comfortable circle of friends and students.

These people do not want to show us what they have to offer in terms of their skills in comparision to:

Senior Master, Dan Anderson - Modern Arnis 80
Punong Guro, Tom Bolden - American Modern Arnis Associates
Guro, Bruce Chiu - Modern Arnis - Remy Presas Style
Senior Master, Bram Frank - Common Sense Self Defense/ SC 
Datu, Tim Hartman - World Modern Arnis Alliance
Datu, Dieter Knuttel - Modern Arnis Germany 
Guro, Dan McConnell - IMAF, Inc.
Guro/Sensei, Dawud Muhammad - Modern Arnis - R. Presas Style
Guro, David Ng - IMAF, Inc.
Senior Master, Rocky Paswik - Modern Arnis - Cuentada
Senior Master, J. Richard Roy - IMAF, Inc.
Guro/Sifu, Peter Vargas - American Modern Arnis Associates

No matter how many times anyone tries to bring "the pretenders to leadership" into the same seminar or camp with people outside of their own organization, they will refuse to participate.  

When someone's name is prominately posted and publicized and they are willing to be judged on the strength of their merits as an instructor of Modern Arnis, we should be praising that person(s) for working to make the art better.  We should be supporting those efforts because then we are participating in making 
Modern Arnis better.

The Presas Family/ Marppio is working closely with Datu Kelly Worden on the west coast, presenting another Modern Arnis program outside of a closed circle of friends, they should be praised and supported.  They are working to make Modern Arnis better.

JD is not crazy.  JD and the others are just "protecting" their self interests.  Why take a chance on being exposed as being less capable and skilled than some of your lesser known brothern who also studied under Profpessor Presas?  

Lamont     



> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> *Ahh......So he is crazy then.
> 
> That is the only alternative. Either he is elaboratily lying, or he is crazy. The one thing he isn't is the grandmaster of Modern Arnis designated by Professor Presas. If he is crazy then I feel bad for him.
> ...


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 11, 2003)

JD was invited to participate in this forum.  He and for the most part his organization has chosen not to.  I contacted him shortly after GM Presas' death for a contribution to the tribute page (http://martialtalk.com/remy )  I got no reply, but was placed on their mailing list instead.

The invitation is still out there.  This forum is to the best of my knowledge the most active and diverse Modern Arnis forum online. (Please, correct me if I am wrong here). We have a heavy WMAA presence, seconded in volume by Dr. Schea's IMAF and many independants.  We also have members of Marrpio and the WMAC that are fairly regular visitors, if not heavily active posters.

Jeff, Lisa, etc are more than welcome to sign up and get involved.  ANY! Modern Arnis practitioner, teacher or organization is welcome here.

I've heard that many do not want to get involved with the politics, BS, and back biting that occurs on forums.  Thats fine.  I can understand that, and my job as an administrator would be so much easier if folks would stick to discussing techniques, concepts, history and the progression of the art, rather than the "Rattan Envy" I see way too often.

Jeff or any member of his group (or any group) is welcome to sign up, and simple add serious technical info, and keep everyone up to date on where their seminars and camps are, and on how they turned out.  A leader gets out there and does.  The rest just are.
"Get Involved" was said to one a while back...I think it fits to all. 

A grandmaster should preserve, promote and advance his art.  One does none of those things by only traveling within a small, known circle.

Peace.

:asian:


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## norshadow1 (Apr 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *
> 
> A grandmaster should preserve, promote and advance his art.  One does none of those things by only traveling within a small, known circle.
> ...



You took the words right out from under my fingertips.
It is that small circle of like-minded people which prevents growth.

Lamont


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## Cruentus (Apr 14, 2003)

> You took the words right out from under my fingertips.
> It is that small circle of like-minded people which prevents growth.
> 
> Lamont



He.....one of my favorite sayings is you can be the master of your own universe if you never leave your own backyard.

*Streetwise:* I'm no grand pooh-bah, arbitrator, or whatever else you declared me as. Sorry. I am just someone who has no fear to bluntly state my opinion. Well, I've stated it, and I'm not going to waste my time argueing over it. If you choose to believe what you do, then it's your livelyhood. Just keep in mind that there is probably quite a bit that you don't know about (the "letter" is a perfect example of one of these things), so you might be basing your ideas behind Jeff on misinformation. If your ever in my area, or if I am in yours, I would be happy to get a drink with you sometime, and we can discuss things. Until then, I would suggest that you keep an open mind, and check out some of the other organizations and independents out there whenever you get the chance. Tell them honestly where your from and that you train with Jeff, and that your just seeing what they have to offer. You might find this to be quite productive and benificial to your training, and you might get a bit more insight into the entire picture of modern arnis.

 
PAUL


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## streetwise (Apr 15, 2003)

"But all of them are going to avoid any or all situations where they would have to share training time with anyone from outside of their closed comfortable circle of friends and students."

Well, maybe I can change that! I train with LOTS of people in LOTS of systems, if I can get myself and some of my students up to speed in Modern Arnis, maybe I can get some of this childish political stuff put to rest. Honestly, until I happened on this site and saw the same type of bickering that has harmed the CMA so badly, I had little interest in advancing in any specific system. I have more rank than I ever actually wanted, and really only train for skills and fun, these days.

"Until then, I would suggest that you keep an open mind, and check out some of the other organizations and independents out there whenever you get the chance. "

Always my intention, my friend.

"Why would you support mediority in Modern Arnis? Jeff Delaney IS NOT that good! "

A possibility, he is quite skilled in a number of arts, but I think I am better. (Of course I ALWAYS think I'm better). However, I am not qualified to comment on anyone's skill in Modern Arnis. Is he better than some? Is he spreading and promoting the arts? Are the people training with him happy with what they are learning? I know of only one way to find out.

"ONLY A FOOL WILL THINK THAT THE PROFESSOR WOULD CHOOSE HIM AS HIS SUCCESSOR.....'

Hmm, actually the Professor indicated just such an intent to me, personally. Was he serious? Don't know, don't really care.

Bottom line (IMHO) on lineage arguments, they are not worth the time and energy that gets wasted on them. If even a very young man, such as Paul, was to say he was starting his own group, for example- Slighty Less Modern, Arnis-, and declaring himself Grandmaster, if I got a chance, I would still check out his style, because I might l learn something, a frightening concept, I know!


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## streetwise (Apr 15, 2003)

Oh, and on a side note, thanks to most of the folks on this thread for the VERY polite tone of this discussion. Such issues really stir the emotions, that is half of the problem.


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