# The relation of martial arts to fasting.



## DougKenline (May 12, 2018)

test

editing in progress....please stand by....


----------



## Headhunter (May 12, 2018)

Oh boy...


----------



## DougKenline (May 12, 2018)

thanks for the comments and feedback guys.

regarding "issue has nothing at all to do with ma or even physical performance"

i disagree

regarding "why don't you maintain that rather than trying to be fat again?"

i am trying to maintain.  I'm not trying to be fat again.  Do you think 6' 4" 190 lbs is fat?

regarding "very hard to consume the same number of calories in those foods as in the junk foods"

that's the first time i remember hearing it put like that.........i'm going to experiment with breaking my fast from that menu and see how it goes......last fast i broke with raw oats, raw peanut butter, raw honey, almonds, and fat free skim milk.........i like it.......yes i think i get full with fewer calories and the energy from those fewer calories lasts longer...........will do it again next break fast......thank you Gerry.......

regarding "Yoyo your weight 30lbs"

i think if anybody does not have a fat problem then they have no concept of what it takes to beat the fat problem.......in my experience it seems that a 10 lb swing is nothing at all.....it seems i can be 171 lbs on monday, eat 600 calories per day for 4 days, and then weigh in at 181 lbs....then after a 36 hour fast i'm back down to 168 lbs.....so a 10 lb swing is basically nothing, 20 lbs is not much more, and 30 lbs i don't think is such a wide range to swing up and down in.......

staying between almost too skinny 160 lbs bottom line and maybe just a tad bit overweight at 190 lbs top line in the sand for the rest of my life seems reasonable to me.......considering i had been living up over the 250 lb line for quite some time....

regarding " just eat that lot permanently"

i've tried that.  i love it, but we all know where that will get you if you have a fat problem like i do......some folks don't have a fat problem, i used to be one of them........seasons change, lessons get learned......

regarding "It's all about moderation"

it seems that it is not all about moderation.  ultra-marathon runners do not train on that theory.  and i would think that world champion gold medal olympians do not train on that theory either.

for example, would a man love his wife only in moderation?  i think the theory of moderation in all things could stand a little scrutiny....

regarding "Oh, I'm definitely not anti-junk-food (gotta love a Hardee's mushroom and swiss burger). As you say, though, moderation is needed"

lol, oh yea!  love the Hardee's!

in my program, moderation is not needed.

regarding "I have a half pound cheese burger from my local shop, Drowned in salard, I consider that a healthy meal"

yea man, now we're talking......i like to go to The Counter Burger for 1 lb beef burger on fresh baby greens with whole grain mustard on the side and unsweet iced lemon tea...........yea  buddy!  doesn't get any better than that!

regarding the autophagy article....fantastic!  thanks jobo!  i will read and study that for sure.

regarding "we can't conduct controlled experiments on humans"

yes we can, but only on ourselves.  i am conducting a controlled human experiment of one as i type these words.

regarding mrt " the scale says I am overweight"

i know how to fix that.

regarding "active male needs 3000 calories"

i live on 600 calories per day for 5 days.  then zero for 36 hours.  then feast on day 7 and repeat.


regarding "Active people Arnt fat, unless they do it on purpose"

that depends on the individual....i found that no amount of exercise that i was willing to do would cut the fat.......for me the fat game can only be won at the dinner table.......

regarding the french fries, shakes, mcdonalds, and five guys discussion......when i'm fasting they are all out......when i'm feasting they are all in.......and  i think over the course of the year i will be spending many, many more days fasting that feasting......it seems the weight comes on a lot faster than it comes off........

regarding "those overstuffed burritos can have over 1,000 calories."

yea buddy!  bring me two of them things with an extra large coca-cola on ice baby!

regarding "the overweight are completely slothful gluttons"

good to see others here with a fat problem......i think they may have a little more interest in my program than those who do not have a fat problem.......i think those who do not have a fat problem my not be able to relate to my program the same as those who do have a fat problem.....

and yes, i am very lucky....my fat problem is not as bad as other's fat problems.......i understand that it is not all sunshine and roses sometimes and my heart goes out to those who are struggling with their weight.........i would suggest try my program....but of course if you have a bad heart etc be careful......have to take everything on a case by case basis.....try looking at the autophagy article from job.....i'm sure going to be reading that one some more and researching further......

my Dad is in the nursing home with diseases such as Parkinson's and dementia.........i'm hoping to delay that fate as long as possible.....i think fasting and living underweight and hungry is the cure............

regarding "blame society people"

yes you definitely cannot fall in to the poor me baby trap.........have to do the best you can and be thankful for the good things you do have......with hard work and persitance much progress can be made........

regarding "Popped s down to the town centre in my shorts and gym shark top to show of my lean muscular physique'

sounds like fun......i used to not have to work at not being fat, now it takes work.....some people are in great shape and they don't have to watch they're diet in any way shape or form....i used to be one of them....didn't know how lucky i was at the time............season change and lessons get learned......

regarding "NYC had some nonsensical law...Restaurants could only serve I think 12 oz. max to kids...."

it's the Nanny State.  let's talk about the IRS for awhile eh guys?

regarding "Well it's only the beginning here"

yes think it's only the beginning everywhere.........

regarding "tax people based on their Body mass rating , that way they leave people like me alone..."

first they came for the Jews.

regarding "Do we punish those with thyroid conditions and reward the anorexic?"

Give me Liberty, or give me death!

regarding "I've met a triathlete (he has actually done the Ironman) who is visibly overweight enough to make it more than a little surprising to learn he's a triathlete."

yea i've got that same guy in my office...

regarding "I'm gifted with a metabolism that keeps me from being fat."

so was i for 45 years.....not any more...

regarding "It's not as magical as it once was"

my magic wore off pretty fast once it started slipping............

regarding "it's still pretty nifty"

oh it's dang nifty.......on my feast cycles the magic is back in town.............................

regarding "If you think your metabolism is universal, you're mistaken."

no doubt about that.

regarding "I think I’m bordering on political here, so I’ll duck out now."

yes please take that to the free speech area.

regarding "someone has to stop the kids teeth rotting and getting diabetes"

yes  the socialists and communists are among us.........always fish out of the right side of the boat............

regarding "I never drink regular colas"

i love specialty sodas in the glass bottles with a good cigar.

regarding "The problem with the government imposing taxes..."

don't get me started.

regarding "What I am all for is transparency on menus..."

yes it seems that socialism almost has a place in some cases........even my hero Upton Sinclair who wrote The Fasting Cure also wrote The Jungle.

His primary purpose in describing the meat industry and its working conditions was to advance socialism in the United States.

Great forum guys!  Wish I had more time to spend here.  Best of luck to everyone!


----------



## Tez3 (May 12, 2018)

DougKenline said:


> first they came for the Jews.




Keep us out of this nonsense, we have nothing to do with any of this.



DougKenline said:


> His primary purpose in describing the meat industry and its working conditions was to advance socialism in the United States.


----------



## Headhunter (May 12, 2018)

Yet again you've mentioned nothing about martial arts


----------



## Tez3 (May 12, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Yet again you've mentioned nothing about martial arts



it's a narcissistic ramble about his eating habits, socialists/communists and politics which clearly doesn't belong here. When we want right wing rants we'll go to Fascists R US for them, always good for a larf guv'nor.


----------



## JR 137 (May 12, 2018)

So start a new thread because the ridiculousness got the other one locked.  Yeah, this’ll last.


----------



## Tez3 (May 12, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> So start a new thread because the ridiculousness got the other one locked.  Yeah, this’ll last.



Posters got bored by the nonsense and didn't like being insulted because they disagreed with the OP so we do what we always do, use it to discuss things that are actually interesting and pertinent. Nutrition, poverty and obesity are 'big' subjects at the moment, governments, health groups, schools, charities etc are all discussing and arguing over the best way to go.


----------



## Martial D (May 12, 2018)




----------



## Martial D (May 12, 2018)

DougKenline said:


> test
> 
> editing in progress....please stand by....


You know nothing about martial arts and everyone is pretty tired of hearing you try to justify your mental issues. Go away.


----------



## Tez3 (May 12, 2018)

DougKenline said:


> yes the socialists and communists are among us.........always fish out of the right side of the boat............





DougKenline said:


> yes it seems that socialism almost has a place in some cases........even my hero Upton Sinclair who wrote The Fasting Cure also wrote The Jungle.
> 
> His primary purpose in describing the meat industry and its working conditions was to advance socialism in the United States.




*And this is acceptable*?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 13, 2018)

DougKenline said:


> .it seems i can be 171 lbs on monday, eat 600 calories per day for 4 days, and then weigh in at 181 lbs


Unless you are drinking a massive amount of water (and were previously dehydrated), that's not possible. A pound of fat contains something on the order of 3500 calories. Some folks may be able to metabolize it out of less - I don't remember the chemistry and physiology well enough to rule that out - and most folks will use more than 3500 calories to metabolize it, but even if your body used none of the food you consumed (600 * 4 = 2400 calories), that's not enough to gain 10 lbs. Your body almost certainly requires more than 600 calories a day unless you are hibernating, so it's almost entirely impossible to not lose weight at 600 calories a day.

_(NOTE: Average basal metabolic rate for a man is something on the order of 1500-2000 calories/day.)_


----------



## jobo (May 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Unless you are drinking a massive amount of water (and were previously dehydrated), that's not possible. A pound of fat contains something on the order of 3500 calories. Some folks may be able to metabolize it out of less - I don't remember the chemistry and physiology well enough to rule that out - and most folks will use more than 3500 calories to metabolize it, but even if your body used none of the food you consumed (600 * 4 = 2400 calories), that's not enough to gain 10 lbs. Your body almost certainly requires more than 600 calories a day unless you are hibernating, so it's almost entirely impossible to not lose weight at 600 calories a day.
> 
> _(NOTE: Average basal metabolic rate for a man is something on the order of 1500-2000 calories/day.)_


What you say is perfectly true, but you need to consider, that he is gorging massive amounts of calories in between,There is a lag between Eatingand gaining weight, on that basis And the fact that his blood sugar must be all over the place, he Could still be gaining weight from the week before whilst starving him self this week, 10 lbs seems a bit On the high side though.
Op

Ok this is futile as your not even slightly listening, so for the final time,

Measure you fat content not your weight, put a tape measure round your waist and chest and thighs, or GET somE capilipers. Or look in the mirror, if you've got you body fat % down to Mid teens that's more than healthy, single figures only looks good on 20 Odd year olds, with Big muscles and high cheek bones every one else looks starved


----------



## JR 137 (May 13, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> Posters got bored by the nonsense and didn't like being insulted because they disagreed with the OP so we do what we always do, use it to discuss things that are actually interesting and pertinent. Nutrition, poverty and obesity are 'big' subjects at the moment, governments, health groups, schools, charities etc are all discussing and arguing over the best way to go.


I was saying HIS ridiculousness.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 13, 2018)

jobo said:


> What you say is perfectly true, but you need to consider, that he is gorging massive amounts of calories in between,There is a lag between Eatingand gaining weight, on that basis And the fact that his blood sugar must be all over the place, he Could still be gaining weight from the week before whilst starving him self this week, 10 lbs seems a bit On the high side though.


Good thought. However, while he might gain fat in that interval, I don't think the actual weight would appear during that time. He's not taking in enough mass to account for the added weight. The body is still going to be converting some mass to energy and waste during that time, so I'd think the total weight (mass) gain during those 4 days would always have to be less than the mass of the food and water taken in.


----------



## jobo (May 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Good thought. However, while he might gain fat in that interval, I don't think the actual weight would appear during that time. He's not taking in enough mass to account for the added weight. The body is still going to be converting some mass to energy and waste during that time, so I'd think the total weight (mass) gain during those 4 days would always have to be less than the mass of the food and water taken in.


Well sort of, the mass of the food is reticent only to the point, that if you eat 5lbs of food, your going to be 5lbs heavier for 6 hours, the bulk of the mass passes out, it's the extracted energy that remains and how and where that's stored. It's possible, even common to put on 5 even 10 lbs over a week end of pigging out, but only a couple of Oz of that will be fat, the rest is either water retained by high salt food you've eaten or glycogen that stored In the muscles liver and blood stream, glycogen also attracts water, some of that glycogen might become fat, but it's not fat yet, basically you've got 10 lbs of water, with a bit of glygogen thrown in.

That's why  using scales for measuring fat loss is useless and why there are so many depressed people when they wEigj themselves Monday morning to find they have put on half a stone,After a " cheat " weekend, that then disappears in the next week to return the Monday after, it's impossible to know what's fat you've lost\gained and what's not if you diet and binge, calipers are the only way forwArd


----------



## Gerry Seymour (May 13, 2018)

jobo said:


> Well sort of, the mass of the food is reticent only to the point, that if you eat 5lbs of food, your going to be 5lbs heavier for 6 hours, the bulk of the mass passes out, it's the extracted energy that remains and how and where that's stored. It's possible, even common to put on 5 even 10 lbs over a week end of pigging out, but only a couple of Oz of that will be fat, the rest is either water retained by high salt food you've eaten or glycogen that stored In the muscles liver and blood stream, glycogen also attracts water, some of that glycogen might become fat, but it's not fat yet, basically you've got 10 lbs of water, with a bit of glygogen thrown in.
> 
> That's why  using scales for measuring fat loss is useless and why there are so many depressed people when they wEigj themselves Monday morning to find they have put on half a stone,After a " cheat " weekend, that then disappears in the next week to return the Monday after, it's impossible to know what's fat you've lost\gained and what's not if you diet and binge, calipers are the only way forwArd


Agreed. My only point was that the actual weight/mass gained during a period of time cannot exceed the amount of weight/mass taken in (technically, impossible for it even to equal that amount). We're saying the same thing - you're just being more complete.


----------



## jobo (May 13, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. My only point was that the actual weight/mass gained during a period of time cannot exceed the amount of weight/mass taken in (technically, impossible for it even to equal that amount). We're saying the same thing - you're just being more complete.


True if you include the total mass consumed, including Liquid, less so if you only count the solids,


----------



## Headhunter (May 13, 2018)

Look buddy you obviously have 0 interest in discussing martial arts here you just throw in the word martial arts to put it here. There's plenty of weight loss forums there go use them you'll get more informed replies....doubt it'll make you listen though but still


----------



## Tames D (May 14, 2018)

Hey Doug... Do ye drinks a bit? Do ye?


----------

