# Pole dancing



## Bruno@MT (May 21, 2010)

So what is the opinion about pole dancing wherever you live?
Here in Belgium, it is starting to get acceptance as a respectable sport for women and young girls. Our dojo did a ninpo / jujutsu demo at a large sports fair organized by the city. After our demo we toured the fair to have a look at other things. There were organizations from all types: martial arts, athletics, rope skipping, gymnastics, tennis, cheerleading, etc, ... and pole dancing.

Pole dancing is no longer considered a purely sexual thing, it's more and more getting the status of a full body power workout, with no more sexual content than e.g. cheerleading. The girls practicing it usually wear the same type of outfit as well, except they have tight shorts instead of skirts.

My daughter wanted to give it a try but the line was too long to her taste so they went on to do something else.


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## chaos1551 (May 21, 2010)

I've seen ads for pole dancing classes and wouldn't be surprised if we'll find a room full of poles with people dancing on them in some sort of aerobics class pretty soon.  And to think.. if you liked watching women's aerobics before..


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## Sukerkin (May 21, 2010)

:lol:  Aye, *chaos*, that is one side-effect to consider from this latest 'craze'.  

On the topic of how it is viewed over here in England, I think it rather depends on your age.  For me, it still has unfortunate connotations of 'sleeze' but for younger people, I agree, it is starting to be seen as just another way of getting excercise.


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## tellner (May 21, 2010)

Maybe it's just the latest form of exercise, Sukerkin. Maybe.

I still think this crossed the line from bad taste into chiroptera-intromission crazy.


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## chaos1551 (May 21, 2010)

tellner said:


> Maybe it's just the latest form of exercise, Sukerkin. Maybe.
> 
> I still think this crossed the line from bad taste into chiroptera-intromission crazy.



Candy cigarette, anyone?


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## crushing (May 21, 2010)

Miss USA! Miss USA! Miss USA! Miss USA!

:jedi1:


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## teekin (May 22, 2010)

I think for some women it will help them become more comfortable with their own bodies. This may be the closest they come to a dance or gymnastics class in their life. Anything that will help a girl or woman more fully inhabit her own skin and love her own body I am all for. To the Devil with convention. :samurai:
 I will admit it doesn't do much for me, but a set of uneven bars or a trampoline gives me a Huge perma-grin. artyon:

Lori


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## Cryozombie (May 22, 2010)

Hey, I'm all for Pole Dancing.




As long as I have a pocket full of singles.


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## Archangel M (May 22, 2010)

It's still strongly associated with stripping here.


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## Majd (Jun 2, 2010)

@Archangel M: Yeah, same here. I don't admin it but many peoples still think that poll dancers are ***s.


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## Aikicomp (Jun 2, 2010)

Maybe I'm old school, but I have four girls and it has always been my view and mission to keep them "off the pole". 

I think to take pole dancing and polish it up and try to market it as a "sport" is rediculous. Marketing genius maybe, but, rediculous none the less. 

Granted it takes strength, agility, balance, flexibility, timing, ect. and is probably a great workout, however, the stigma associated with pole dancing will IMO always have some "stripper" connotation attached to it.


Basically, IMO, you can't polish a turd.

Michael


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## bushidomartialarts (Jun 3, 2010)

America has always had a weird relationship with sex and sexualilty. I don't want my niece (no daughter for me yet) to go be strippers.

On the other hand, I would love all my niece to have a part time college job with flexible hours and the real possibility of making $100+ per hour. Later, I hope she marries a man she can really enjoy having sex with.

Most mentally healthy women enjoy being sexy and are comfortable with their sexuality. If pole dancing is how they choose to express it, what's the harm?

I mean, besides working in an abusive environment with sketchy co-workers, many of whom are strung out....


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## Archangel M (Jun 3, 2010)

bushidomartialarts said:


> I mean, besides working in an abusive environment with sketchy co-workers, many of whom are strung out....



Truth.

While the "college girl" making money dancing meme is popular, and no doubt true in some situations; prostitution, drug use and organized crime are far more prevalent in the strip club industry.


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## Carol (Jun 3, 2010)

bushidomartialarts said:


> America has always had a weird relationship with sex and sexualilty. I don't want my niece (no daughter for me yet) to go be strippers.
> 
> On the other hand, I would love all my niece to have a part time college job with flexible hours and the real possibility of making $100+ per hour. Later, I hope she marries a man she can really enjoy having sex with.
> 
> ...



Ask Krissy.  She's in Cedar Grove Cemetery, in Peabody, MA. I can give you good directions. 

Or better yet, ask Krissy's mom.



> *Dancer murdered in Peabody*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Source

Krissy's attackers were convicted of 1st Degree Murder.

Krissy, and Madison:


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## teekin (Jun 4, 2010)

You'll have to excuse me. I meant pole dancing as in the classes you can take in the evening with a bunch of other ladies. These are done for recreation, excersice and fun NOT to earn money or work in a strip club. This is done for *Personal* satisfaction, for the lark, cause it's a hoot not to get some guys rocks off in the back of dark stinky club. I don't put a price on any woman's dignity. Please don't mix up sexuality and prostitution. I am all for the former.

 Guys, the strippers don't want to be there. That ain't a dream job, it's all about the $$$$$$. The happier they look, the more they giggle and flirt, the more they can make you believe that they are Happy to be there, happy you are there too , and Luv what they are doing ( including the sex if that is on the menu) the more $$$$ they make. This I think is explotive on both the men and women's parts. Both parties seem to get what they want and need however so I don't condem or condone eithier. I just don't think I have that right.

Lori


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## tellner (Jun 4, 2010)

Grendel, most jobs are about the $$$$$$. The question is whether the money, rewards, dangers and working conditions are better than other alternatives.


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## teekin (Jun 4, 2010)

Tellner, most jobs bring something else to the table other than money. Some sort of satisfaction, raise in self worth, pride or workmanship, social networking, oppertunity to gain marketable and social skills, something other than just money.
 Stripping robs a woman of self worth, reduces her social circle, is not something she will put on a resume and exposes her to the dubious social contacts. The ONLY positive is the money. That is a big differece between working in KFC for $7.00/hour and a stripp club for $50.00/hour. $43.00 /hour is the price per hour of dignity and some girls soul.

Lori


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## Ken Morgan (Jun 4, 2010)

Sadly Lori, "_Some sort of satisfaction, raise in self worth, pride or workmanship, social networking, oppertunity to gain marketable and social skills_," doesn't keep a roof over people's heads or feed the kids.


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## teekin (Jun 5, 2010)

How right you are my friend. Who can fault a mother for doing anything it takes to put a roof over her childs head and make sure it is fed, safe and has the oppertunity for a proper education? Hard to do on $7.00 an hour. I know I would opt for the $50.00 job in a heartbeat. 
 Good point Ken. And with that I say Adieu' for a while. :cheers:
Cheers
Lori


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 5, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Sadly Lori, "_Some sort of satisfaction, raise in self worth, pride or workmanship, social networking, oppertunity to gain marketable and social skills_," doesn't keep a roof over people's heads or feed the kids.


This is true, but the prepared work, the unprepared strip, and prostitution just offers the unprepared even more money. Who doesn't want more money? Stay in school girls!
Sean


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## tellner (Jun 5, 2010)

We've had strippers as students in WSD classes. Most of them were college students at a couple of prestigious liberal arts schools. One was a single mom and a full-time student. They were able to make room, board and a big chunk of tuition doing part-time work outside of class hours. It beat McDonalds or maid service. It's not a job I would want even if I were qualified. On the other hand I've had plenty of jobs which were harder, more dangerous and every bit as objectifying and demeaning in the "legitimate" economy. 

We did extra self defense instruction for a few of them with help from people who had done a lot of security work for dancers. It's amazing how much of what they needed to know was like babysitting.

Show up on time.
No matter how much fun it is, don't take the drink or the Peruvian Marching Powder the customer wants to share.
Don't date customers.
Don't take rides from customers.
Don't give customers your real name or tell them where you live.
If you're doing outcall dancing keep your phone or a walkie talkie on in your bag. Have your driver listening in. 
Share tips with the bouncers.
If the boss tries to coerce sex from you, leave right away. Collecting your clothes on the way out is optional.

My first Silat teacher used to drive for a couple of his friends who danced. They had a routine. He would stand there looking dangerous. She said "Hi! I'm Avalon, and this is my associate, Bruno."

"Miss Avalon will dance for one hour. I will return in one hour. Do not touch Miss Avalon." 

He waited right outside, rain or shine, heat or snow with the radio on. If the radio stopped he would be at the door in seconds.

Yes, a lot of strippers end up as werewolf bait. And that's a terrible thing. But there are ways to make the job less dangerous. 

It's not a perfect world. All you can do is make your best choices and try to live in it.


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## crushing (Aug 15, 2010)

[yt]2H1zjRU8hBo[/yt]

It's called 'gymnastics' in the video, but still very impressive.


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## Blade96 (Aug 15, 2010)

pole dancing, stripping, prostitution, etc.

demeaning, degrading, objectifying. Nuff said.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 15, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> pole dancing, stripping, prostitution, etc.
> 
> demeaning, degrading, objectifying. Nuff said.


 
As long as there is no coercion involved, the &#8220;performers&#8221; should be allowed to do as they so please.


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## Sukerkin (Aug 15, 2010)

Clearly, not being of either the gender or the inclination to take part in such 'work' choices (I don't like to call them professions or careers as it lends them social legitimacy), I can only proffer an opinion and some observations.

If the money is there to be made and the safeguards are in place and actually work, then it is hard to fault a woman for making use of her physical assets to earn a living.  I once shared a house with a couple of 'exotic dancers', as they used to be called not so long ago, and as well as being beautiful and athletic, they were also smart and aware of what their choices entailed.  

Both were at the same university as me but only one graduated.  This is where the "cautionary tale" bit comes in as the lass that didn't decided that she would never earn more in a 9-to-5 job than she would doing what she was.  So she dropped out.  We kept in contact for a while but by the time our social link faded away she was on a nasty downwards slope for the insidious evil of 'hard' drugs had taken a foothold.

A sample of two is hardly going to be representative but all I can say, from my experience, is that it seems a 50-50 proposition at best whether it is a useful call when it comes to employment.


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## Ken Morgan (Aug 15, 2010)

Ive known both male and female exotic dancers, and its amazing when you hear of the money they can make in a week. More then they would ever make anywhere else. Hmm I can make 2  3K cash, a week doing this or 3- 4C working at Mcdonalds.guess what wins out. Ive known of some good, hard working single parents who have done it, same reason, easy, fast money. You do as you must to keep your kids feed and clothed.

It gets sad and nasty when drugs and violence get involved. Again, if the coercion wasnt there, do as you will.


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## mook jong man (Aug 15, 2010)

I don't think there is any thing wrong with Poles dancing , there should be more of it in my opinion.

If Polish folks want to dance to a good lively polka , and they're not hurting anyone , then more power to them I say.


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