# Weapons training for the purpose of self defense



## PhotonGuy (Aug 16, 2017)

When training with weapons for the purpose of self defense it makes sense to train with a weapon that you're likely to have at hand. Training with a guandao can be fun and fascinating but in order for it to be useful in self defense you have to have a guandao with you at the time. You're not all that likely to be carrying one around. From my observation, lots of martial arts schools that teach weapons like to teach sticks since sticks are easy to come by. This does make sense. Not everybody trains with weapons with the goal being self defense but if that is your goal I can see why sticks would be a good weapon to train with.


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## drop bear (Aug 17, 2017)

Yeah see I think you could do well by training concepts instead. So then if you pick up a stick off the ground you don't have to get used to using it.

In which case train with weapons you use and with ones that are a bit more challenging.


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## frank raud (Aug 17, 2017)

I am the weapon. The rest is just accessories.


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## jobo (Aug 17, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> When training with weapons for the purpose of self defense it makes sense to train with a weapon that you're likely to have at hand. Training with a guandao can be fun and fascinating but in order for it to be useful in self defense you have to have a guandao with you at the time. You're not all that likely to be carrying one around. From my observation, lots of martial arts schools that teach weapons like to teach sticks since sticks are easy to come by. This does make sense. Not everybody trains with weapons with the goal being self defense but if that is your goal I can see why sticks would be a good weapon to train with.


yes indeed, train with an every day object you are pretty likely to have with you and is legal to carry, I'm not sure sticks are that easy to find in a,city, ?


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 18, 2017)

It's not just the specific weapons that you can use, but the training itself will benefit you a lot in other ways. The principles you learn with the standard weapons can be applied to makeshift and improvised weapons. If you can skillfully wield a guandao you should be able to also use other long heavy implements that you find, such as farming tools. 

The weapons training can also help with your unarmed combat too. If you can effectively use a pair of Sai or daggers, your hand-to-hand skills should be just as good. Then of course there is gaining knowledge of how to defend yourself against those weapons, even when unarmed yourself. This is invaluable in a self defence scenario.


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## donald1 (Aug 18, 2017)

Anyone with common sense isnt going to walk up to the person carrying a guandao and threaten to mug them

however its good training none the less. Also if you can swing a heavy weapon like a guandao effectivly then swinging a bo or a short stick should be much easier. When I first started training with my kwandao one of the thing s I noticed. My rokushakubo felt very light.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 18, 2017)

drop bear said:


> Yeah see I think you could do well by training concepts instead. So then if you pick up a stick off the ground you don't have to get used to using it.
> 
> In which case train with weapons you use and with ones that are a bit more challenging.


This is more my approach, though I agree with the OP's premise. The way I see it, there are two approaches to training weapons for SD.

1) Train the most likely weapons, like sticks and staves, maybe knives. (For the CWP folks, this would mean training with your common carry weapons.)

2) Train to be able to use a range of weapons, by training concepts across disparate weapons. In this case, sticks/staves should be part of the training (still the most likely), but you might add in flexible weapons, nunchaku or something equally difficult and different from a stick, and bladed weapons. To make the most use of this, you have to sometimes train one weapon as if it were the other - so, how does a stick operate if I use it for slashing and stabbing? How does a long knife operate if I use it to strike?


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 18, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> The weapons training can also help with your unarmed combat too. If you can effectively use a pair of Sai or daggers, your hand-to-hand skills should be just as good. Then of course there is gaining knowledge of how to defend yourself against those weapons, even when unarmed yourself. This is invaluable in a self defence scenario.



You're not all that likely in this day and age for an attacker to come at you with a pair of sai. They are much more likely to come at you with a knife or gun. So, being able to defend against weapons, being able to defend against daggers can be good if somebody is coming at you with a knife but you will probably not face somebody coming at you with sais. But you do make some good points about weapons training improving your unarmed fighting skills and making you all around a better hand to hand combatant. In Filipino stick fighting you start with learning how to fight with sticks and then move on to unarmed fighting for that reason.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 18, 2017)

donald1 said:


> Anyone with common sense isnt going to walk up to the person carrying a guandao and threaten to mug them
> 
> however its good training none the less. Also if you can swing a heavy weapon like a guandao effectivly then swinging a bo or a short stick should be much easier. When I first started training with my kwandao one of the thing s I noticed. My rokushakubo felt very light.


You probably aren't going to be carrying around an guandao. First you have to be legally able to, the law might not allow it. Aside from that a guandao is large and awkward to carry around and even if you legally can carry it you're going to get lots of strange looks. 

But you're right that it can help you handle other weapons easier such as sticks which are much easier to come by.


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 18, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> You're not all that likely in this day and age for an attacker to come at you with a pair of sai. They are much more likely to come at you with a knife or gun. So, being able to defend against weapons, being able to defend against daggers can be good if somebody is coming at you with a knife but you will probably not face somebody coming at you with sais. But you do make some good points about weapons training improving your unarmed fighting skills and making you all around a better hand to hand combatant. In Filipino stick fighting you start with learning how to fight with sticks and then move on to unarmed fighting for that reason.



Sai are typically a lot harder to defend against than normal knives, so if you can defend against Sai, you should be fine against a single knife. It's interesting that the FMA do weapons before unarmed, when in traditional CMA you always do hand combat before learning any weapons. In fact, you could be training unarmed combat for up to 5 years before being let anywhere near a weapon, and even then you are only trained to use a Staff.


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## donald1 (Aug 19, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> You probably aren't going to be carrying around an guandao. First you have to be legally able to, the law might not allow it. Aside from that a guandao is large and awkward to carry around and even if you legally can carry it you're going to get lots of strange looks.
> 
> But you're right that it can help you handle other weapons easier such as sticks which are much easier to come by.


Ive never had any problems with the law. I take mine to class and bring it home. When its in the car I keep it in its bag zipped up. if cops ask ill tell them im taking it to class/home. But I can see your point. some cops are more strict than others and may give you a fine. One guy I know got a warning because he had a tiny pair of toy nunchaku hanging from his rear view mirror.


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## jobo (Aug 20, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> It's not just the specific weapons that you can use, but the training itself will benefit you a lot in other ways. The principles you learn with the standard weapons can be applied to makeshift and improvised weapons. If you can skillfully wield a guandao you should be able to also use other long heavy implements that you find, such as farming tools.
> 
> The weapons training can also help with your unarmed combat too. If you can effectively use a pair of Sai or daggers, your hand-to-hand skills should be just as good. Then of course there is gaining knowledge of how to defend yourself against those weapons, even when unarmed yourself. This is invaluable in a self defence scenario.


I'm not sure where you live, but I'm very unlikely to find heavy farm tools lying around at all, certainly not handily available if someone attacks me, surely from a self defence point of view, you want a weapon that can be carried about your person and not raise suspicion, I'm most unlikely to be given admitance to a pub if I'm carrying a heavy farm implement,at the very least it has to fit in your pocket and not be illegal to carry and then train yourself to use it, what ever it is ,effectively  . Rather than train yourself to use something that will never be available?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 20, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not sure where you live, but I'm very unlikely to find heavy farm tools lying around at all, certainly not handily available if someone attacks me, surely from a self defence point of view, you want a weapon that can be carried about your person and not raise suspicion, I'm most unlikely to be given admitance to a pub if I'm carrying a heavy farm implement,at the very least it has to fit in your pocket and not be illegal to carry and then train yourself to use it, what ever it is ,effectively  . Rather than train yourself to use something that will never be available?


Agreed. I can imagine some scenarios with similar weapons (hardware store, etc.), but they'd be the exception. Perhaps we could find reasonably heavy implements in many situations that might substitute in a pinch.


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## Anarax (Aug 20, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> When training with weapons for the purpose of self defense it makes sense to train with a weapon that you're likely to have at hand. Training with a guandao can be fun and fascinating but in order for it to be useful in self defense you have to have a guandao with you at the time. You're not all that likely to be carrying one around. From my observation, lots of martial arts schools that teach weapons like to teach sticks since sticks are easy to come by. This does make sense. Not everybody trains with weapons with the goal being self defense but if that is your goal I can see why sticks would be a good weapon to train with.



The weapon training I received in Kung Fu felt disjointed from the empty handed techniques. Not that the training itself was flawed, but the weapons were so exotic I didn't see any overlap with the empty hand. The footwork, movements and overall method felt very different. However; Kali uses sticks for a few reasons. One reason being the attack/defense angles, footwork and techniques are very similar, thus it all overlaps. The range obviously changes, but the overall dynamics changes very little. As far as everyday carry, there are collapsible batons you could carry if you really want to. However; carrying a Dao or Jian is unrealistic.


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 20, 2017)

jobo said:


> I'm not sure where you live, but I'm very unlikely to find heavy farm tools lying around at all, certainly not handily available if someone attacks me, surely from a self defence point of view, you want a weapon that can be carried about your person and not raise suspicion, I'm most unlikely to be given admitance to a pub if I'm carrying a heavy farm implement,at the very least it has to fit in your pocket and not be illegal to carry and then train yourself to use it, what ever it is ,effectively  . Rather than train yourself to use something that will never be available?



This is probably the biggest difference between the US and the UK for self-defence. In the UK we aren't allowed to carry anything that could be used to harm another person, concealed or otherwise, so the only things you have to defend yourself with are whatever you can grab at the time. When the last London attack happened, the people confronting the attackers didn't have any real weapons with them, so used chairs and beer bottles to defend themselves with, since that was all they had available. I can definitely see the point in training weapons you can carry around with you all the time, but we very rarely have that option over here.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 20, 2017)

donald1 said:


> Ive never had any problems with the law. I take mine to class and bring it home. When its in the car I keep it in its bag zipped up. if cops ask ill tell them im taking it to class/home. But I can see your point. some cops are more strict than others and may give you a fine. One guy I know got a warning because he had a tiny pair of toy nunchaku hanging from his rear view mirror.



Are you going to be walking down the street with a guandao?


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## donald1 (Aug 20, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Are you going to be walking down the street with a guandao?


only if ive been drinking too much

although technically i never really claimed the guandao itself would be used for self defense. merely something for training purposes.


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## jobo (Aug 20, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> This is probably the biggest difference between the US and the UK for self-defence. In the UK we aren't allowed to carry anything that could be used to harm another person, concealed or otherwise, so the only things you have to defend yourself with are whatever you can grab at the time. When the last London attack happened, the people confronting the attackers didn't have any real weapons with them, so used chairs and beer bottles to defend themselves with, since that was all they had available. I can definitely see the point in training weapons you can carry around with you all the time, but we very rarely have that option over here.


well no, that's not the UK law, you can carry any thing that isn't designed(or modified) as a weapon and which you don't have intent to use as a weapon, with the prosicution needing to prove your intent  . Which is near impossible unless you admit to it
so the list of things that you could carry, that would come in handy if attacked is nearly endless.


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 20, 2017)

jobo said:


> well no, that's not the UK law, you can carry any thing that isn't designed(or modified) as a weapon and which you don't have intent to use as a weapon, with the prosicution needing to prove your intent  . Which is near impossible unless you admit to it
> so the list of things that you could carry, that would come in handy if attacked is nearly endless.



Nope. The law states that you aren't allowed to carry items that could be used to harm another regardless of whether you plan on using it for self-defence or not, unless you have a valid reason for carrying them for professional, educational or medical reasons. So for example, a builder could justifiably carry a hammer in his belt down the street if he is going to his job, but I am not a builder so I am not allowed to carry a hammer in public.


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## Midnight-shadow (Aug 21, 2017)

Ugh I'm too tired for this. Forget my last post, it's wrong with regards to the law.


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## jobo (Aug 21, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> Ugh I'm too tired for this. Forget my last post, it's wrong with regards to the law.


well your partly right, the " excuse" element applies to knifes etc over the prescribed length and to a whole list of restricted weapons , but not to general things like hammers. though the police might take a dim view, its by no means illegal

I've had several conversations with the local police about walking about with a base ball bat, i use it to hit tennis ball for the dog to chase, in the end i got fed up of being pulled and wrapped in cloth to carry it to the park


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> yes indeed, train with an every day object you are pretty likely to have with you and is legal to carry, I'm not sure sticks are that easy to find in a,city, ?



I was in Manhattan just yesterday. Sometimes when you go into the city you might be carrying an umbrella, I do know of a case of a woman who was carrying an umbrella in Manhattan and she was able to fight off an attacker with it. I was not carrying an umbrella when I was there but I did see stuff that could be used as fighting sticks. There were people carrying canes here and there and some of the stores sold mops and other such stuff that could be used as fighting sticks.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 26, 2017)

Weapon is just the extension of your arm. Any open hand skill can be used in weapon such as:

- comb hair, downward cut.
- comb hair, horizontal cut.
- weapon touch, forward stab.
- leg cut change into neck cut.
- ...


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## jobo (Aug 26, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> I was in Manhattan just yesterday. Sometimes when you go into the city you might be carrying an umbrella, I do know of a case of a woman who was carrying an umbrella in Manhattan and she was able to fight off an attacker with it. I was not carrying an umbrella when I was there but I did see stuff that could be used as fighting sticks. There were people carrying canes here and there and some of the stores sold mops and other such stuff that could be used as fighting sticks.


if i had time to pop into a hard ware shop when being attacked, I'm pretty sure i would come out with something better than a mop


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## Tez3 (Aug 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> if i had time to pop into a hard ware shop when being attacked, I'm pretty sure i would come out with something better than a mop



Four candles/fork handles?


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## Danny T (Aug 26, 2017)

I carry a hickory cane.
Anywhere. No Problems...Ever.
Don't play a fool, don't be obnoxious, just go about your business as normal.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 26, 2017)

Danny T said:


> I carry a hickory cane.
> Anywhere. No Problems...Ever.
> Don't play a fool, don't be obnoxious, just go about your business as normal.View attachment 20963


I carry a walking stick with a solid heavy metal head on. I can use it to crack a skull if I have to. IMO, it's better legal self-defense weapon.

I always have many "sword sticks". But it may be illegal to carry.


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## drop bear (Aug 26, 2017)

You can get ninjering umbrellas by the way. If you want to spend the cash.

As well as canes.


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## Danny T (Aug 26, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I carry a walking stick with a solid heavy metal head on. I can use it to crack a skull if I have to. IMO, it's better legal self-defense weapon.


Have a similar walking stick with a metal head as well but have always had to explain it to TSA and some government buildings. The Cane...Never!


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> I was in Manhattan just yesterday. Sometimes when you go into the city you might be carrying an umbrella, I do know of a case of a woman who was carrying an umbrella in Manhattan and she was able to fight off an attacker with it. I was not carrying an umbrella when I was there but I did see stuff that could be used as fighting sticks. There were people carrying canes here and there and some of the stores sold mops and other such stuff that could be used as fighting sticks.


I've considered picking up one of the more sturdy umbrellas, for this reason. I have a golf umbrella I sometimes carry when walking around town, if there is a reasonable chance of a storm. It would be a passable weapon, and the sturdier ones would be even better.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2017)

Danny T said:


> Have a similar walking stick with a metal head as well but have always had to explain it to TSA and some government buildings. The Cane...Never!


I have two canes with metal heads (one solid brass, I think, and the other feels solidly hollow, if that makes any sense). I've never been questioned when taking them through TSA or anywhere else. It might help that I typically bear a fair amount of weight on my cane when walking with it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2017)

drop bear said:


> You can get ninjering umbrellas by the way. If you want to spend the cash.
> 
> As well as canes.


My most ninjery cane/walking stick is also my most foppish. It has a solid glass head (quite hefty) and a sturdy, hollow metal shaft. It goes quite well with a tuxedo, and is easily the one most likely to deliver a debilitating blow.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2017)

Danny T said:


> I carry a hickory cane.
> Anywhere. No Problems...Ever.
> Don't play a fool, don't be obnoxious, just go about your business as normal.View attachment 20963


I have a couple that were made by Papasan (Ed Martin) a decade or two ago. They are unobtrusive, solid, and actually work well as canes.


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## jobo (Aug 26, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> My most ninjery cane/walking stick is also my most foppish. It has a solid glass head (quite hefty) and a sturdy, hollow metal shaft. It goes quite well with a tuxedo, and is easily the one most likely to deliver a debilitating blow.


how often do you go out in a tux?


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> how often do you go out in a tux?


Less than I used to. When money was more plentiful (and we lived near a larger city) we went to events where eveningwear was passable a few times a year. I'm not sure the pants for my tux still fit, frankly - I've put on two or three inches in the last two years.


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## Hyoho (Aug 26, 2017)

I am still working on a quick release pocket for my taser. I still have a problem with developing eyes in the back of my head. That's where they usually come from where I live.

Do people really think that atackers are law abiding citizens and dont usually use guns?


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## Hyoho (Aug 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> well no, that's not the UK law, you can carry any thing that isn't designed(or modified) as a weapon and which you don't have intent to use as a weapon, with the prosicution needing to prove your intent  . Which is near impossible unless you admit to it
> so the list of things that you could carry, that would come in handy if attacked is nearly endless.


I was arrested once caught up in a gang fight. I did have knife in my pocket. I was not charged as it was the others that attacked me first. I was told that anything I carried might be construed as weapon if I drew it out.


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## Hyoho (Aug 26, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I carry a walking stick with a solid heavy metal head on. I can use it to crack a skull if I have to. IMO, it's better legal self-defence weapon.
> 
> I always have many "sword sticks". But it may be illegal to carry.


 Now why on earth would you want to be so conspicuous and even try hit them on the head


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 26, 2017)

Hyoho said:


> Now why on earth would you want to be so conspicuous and even try hit them on the head
> View attachment 20964


If 5 guys attack my wife, I want to make sure that I can knock 1 guy down by just one strike. I still have another 4 guys to deal with.


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## jobo (Aug 26, 2017)

Hyoho said:


> I was arrested once caught up in a gang fight. I did have knife in my pocket. I was not charged as it was the others that attacked me first. I was told that anything I carried might be construed as weapon if I drew it out.


are you talking UK law?


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## Hyoho (Aug 26, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If 5 guys attack my wife, I want to make sure that I can knock 1 guy down by just one strike. I still have another 4 guys to deal with.



I can think of better places to hit them. My partner would have already shot them before they got that close. Either that or probably cut their heads off if within range.


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## Hyoho (Aug 26, 2017)

jobo said:


> are you talking UK law?


Yes, but a long, long time ago. I guess it's changed. Just something I got caught up in walking out into an alley. Nothing I actually instigated. The other guys (losers) admitted they attacked me.


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## jobo (Aug 27, 2017)

Hyoho said:


> Yes, but a long, long time ago. I guess it's changed. Just something I got caught up in walking out into an alley. Nothing I actually instigated. The other guys (losers) admitted they attacked me.


the law been the same for decades, there is an old adage of never take legal advice from the police. They are right in respect that what ever the object is the moment you draw it to defend yourself it becomes a weapon, but the law allows the concept of instant arming, that being if you are under attack you are allowed a weapon, provided that what ever it is wasn't being carried as a,weapon in the first place. This is a bit more convincing if its a common everyday object that just happened to be in your pocket


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 27, 2017)

jobo said:


> if i had time to pop into a hard ware shop when being attacked, I'm pretty sure i would come out with something better than a mop


So would I, but in a convenience store the best you would find would usually be a broom or a mop.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 27, 2017)

Hyoho said:


> Do people really think that atackers are law abiding citizens and dont usually use guns?


That depends. Not in some places where guns aren't that common.


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## Hyoho (Aug 28, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> That depends. Not in some places where guns aren't that common.


Well I guess thats why many of us differ on the idea of what is good self defence. 

My main reason is in teaching MA in Japan I know for sure it's not the reason they do it.

I had prowler last night. Checked with my local government watchman that patrols at night. He told me "Shoot em".


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> I've considered picking up one of the more sturdy umbrellas, for this reason. I have a golf umbrella I sometimes carry when walking around town, if there is a reasonable chance of a storm. It would be a passable weapon, and the sturdier ones would be even better.



Golf umbrellas, I believe those are made with sturdier shafts than regular umbrellas and they've got a spike protruding out the handle for sticking it in the ground when you need both hands to take a shot with the golf club. They would make good weapons.


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## Tez3 (Sep 3, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Golf umbrellas, I believe those are made with sturdier shafts than regular umbrellas and *they've got a spike protruding out the handle for sticking it in the ground when you need both hands to take a shot with the golf club. They would make good weapons.*



I believe that would be a very good way to get attacked and murdered by the greenkeeper.

The 'spike' doesn't stick out of the handle, you'd poke your eye out when you used it as an umbrella.

This would be better. Unbreakable Umbrella |


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 3, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Golf umbrellas, I believe those are made with sturdier shafts than regular umbrellas and they've got a spike protruding out the handle for sticking it in the ground when you need both hands to take a shot with the golf club. They would make good weapons.


None of the golf umbrellas I've owned had that spike. That would be...useful.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 3, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> I believe that would be a very good way to get attacked and murdered by the greenkeeper.
> 
> The 'spike' doesn't stick out of the handle, you'd poke your eye out when you used it as an umbrella.
> 
> This would be better. Unbreakable Umbrella |


That's one of the ones I've looked at. It seems like a decent weapon in a pinch, though of course any strikes with the shaft would be padded too much to be of great effect.


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## drop bear (Sep 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's one of the ones I've looked at. It seems like a decent weapon in a pinch, though of course any strikes with the shaft would be padded too much to be of great effect.



We have a $10 Umbrella from a local hardware store that is about as tough and probably heavier. The good old Bunning umbrella.


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## Tez3 (Sep 3, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's one of the ones I've looked at. It seems like a decent weapon in a pinch, though of course any strikes with the shaft would be padded too much to be of great effect.



40 shades of Grey?


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 3, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> I believe that would be a very good way to get attacked and murdered by the greenkeeper.
> 
> The 'spike' doesn't stick out of the handle, you'd poke your eye out when you used it as an umbrella.
> 
> This would be better. Unbreakable Umbrella |



That Unbreakable Umbrella does look like a good umbrella for self defense, definitely something I would look into when researching such umbrellas. As for golf umbrellas I don't know much about them, I just did a web search on them after gpseymour mentioned them. I came up with this. 
THE DAVEK GOLF - For the avid sportsman


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## PeteCress (May 7, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Have a similar walking stick with a metal head as well but have always had to explain it to TSA and some government buildings. The Cane...Never!


I made a cane with a hame ball on top and found functionality to be poor.

To Wit:

The ball added a lot of weight
The cane looks aggessive/weaponized
On a cold day it sucks heat out of the hand
It cannot be used to hook/drag something out of reach

It concentrates force so the hand gets sore after a mile or so
It can't be hung on an arm while you're reaching for something
if you lean the cane against something it tends to slide and fall down
Until a few days ago my go-to cane has been a cut-down hickory "Sheep Hook" (about twenty bucks from Tractor Supply: *https://tinyurl.com/ycx6nqez)* 

Then I bought a second one, harvested the handle, and joined said handle to the tip of a broken windsurfer mast.

The result has a definate fugly factor and I might give up on it if people perceive it as too aggressive.

But it's really strong and the 6+ ounces less swing weight makes it much faster to swing and transition between jabbing and swinging.

I plan to keep working out with the heavier cane, but adopt the newer/fuglier one for daily use until such time as I come to think think that the image is too negative.

Time will tell..
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=WDdSdm4wSG90UkNwMG1FMVdSQ2p0NEFRQThPRVJ3


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## Gerry Seymour (May 7, 2018)

PeteCress said:


> I made a cane with a hame ball on top and found functionality to be poor.
> 
> To Wit:
> 
> ...


I don't think it's significantly more aggressive looking. I'd be concerned about the point where they are joined, though. I much prefer a solid piece of wood given a choice.


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