# Wow.........sad



## ArmorOfGod (Jan 21, 2008)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sweetjuniper/2050168942/in/set-72157603302647339/

(Tree growing in rotting paper, Detroit Public Schools book depository.) 

I found that link at a popular news website and am sharing it here.

That is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

:-(

AoG


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## exile (Jan 21, 2008)

Yes, that was my reaction too... tremendous sadness.


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 21, 2008)

Wow, I'm speechless.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 21, 2008)

While I see the sadness of it... I also see a triumph... 

As Ian Malcom said it... 

"Life will find a way..."


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## ArmorOfGod (Jan 22, 2008)

If you look at the other pictures in the set, you will find a pic of a few pallets of books still shrinkwrapped that have never been opened or used.

AoG


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 22, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sweetjuniper/2050168942/in/set-72157603302647339/
> 
> (Tree growing in rotting paper, Detroit Public Schools book depository.)
> 
> ...




It is a sad state of affairs. 

One of the pictures had a subtitle about Detroit having a 47 percent literacy rate. That means 47 percent can read. 

Some asked how did it get like this? 
Some asked why is it not cleaned up? 
Others asked why are there unused work books and new text books?

I do not know but I can guess. 

They are not cleaned up as it would require someone doing work and possible getting publicity. 

I think it got like that as people abuse the system, and for years it was with the Mayor on down. 

As to unused books I have no clue, but it is sad.


********

Detroit has such a bad reputation. And the worst part is most who live their like having the bad reputation. They think it is cool. 

An XM radio channel has a blurb that says they could solve world peace but then there is Detroit. No one complains. Those outside of Michigan and Detroit laugh. Those in Detroit strut with pride. Apathy is horrible here. I do not live in Detroit. I am lucky to live north of there in a nicer neighborhood. But as a state resident I pay for those books in my taxes and state monies that go to the schools. And the states is in financial problems and retro raised taxes last year to cover their bills. 

I am frustrated and confused and mad as well as sad.


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## arnisador (Jan 22, 2008)

Sheesh. What a waste.


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## exile (Jan 22, 2008)

See, here's what I find so sad. Yes, there's life growing out of the rotting pages of those books, but that life could have gotten started anywhere where there were organic compounds to provide nutrients, and enough moisture. But what those books contain is information, knowledge, the hard-earned experience of people who in many cases spent their lives distilling knowledge from that experience and presenting it in an accessible form for others to benefit by. And to me, those trees growing out of those books are expressions of the loss of that information, experience and knowledge for those whom it was all intended to benefit. All that learning and effort to make sense of things, decomposing along with the pages...


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2008)

ArmorOfGod said:


> If you look at the other pictures in the set, you will find a pic of a few pallets of books still shrinkwrapped that have never been opened or used.
> 
> AoG


 
That is a crying shame and nature is always finding ways to overcome.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2008)

exile said:


> See, here's what I find so sad. Yes, there's life growing out of the rotting pages of those books, but that life could have gotten started anywhere where there were organic compounds to provide nutrients, and enough moisture. But what those books contain is information, knowledge, the hard-earned experience of people who in many cases spent their lives distilling knowledge from that experience and presenting it in an accessible form for others to benefit by. And to me, those trees growing out of those books are expressions of the loss of that information, experience and knowledge for those whom it was all intended to benefit. All that learning and effort to make sense of things, decomposing along with the pages...


 
It's almost a perfect expression of entropy isn't it?  With a 47% literacy rate, it shouldn't be surprising that among the detritus of civilization, we would find books.  

I wonder what would happen if some enterprising individual took pictures like this and scenes from around the country and held them up in large form so our candidates could see them?

Would the be ignored?  Would we get to see their fake crocodile sympathy?  Or would the people around them get angry enough to force some action?

America needs to wake up and realize that the Third world lives in the First world.


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## exile (Jan 23, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> *It's almost a perfect expression of entropy isn't it?* With a 47% literacy rate, it shouldn't be surprising that among the detritus of civilization, we would find books.



My thought exactly.



upnorthkyosa said:


> I wonder what would happen if some enterprising individual took pictures like this and scenes from around the country and held them up in large form so our candidates could see them?



Outstanding idea, UpN. I'd love to hear what people vying for positions in public office would say about these sorts of pictures (which I'd be willing to bet could be found in many, many other parts of the country).



upnorthkyosa said:


> Would the be ignored?  *Would we get to see their fake crocodile sympathy?* Or would the people around them get angry enough to force some action?
> 
> America needs to wake up and realize that the Third world lives in the First world.



My guess is what I've bolded above: a lot of handwringing and vehement deploring of the situations which produce such scenes, intended almost completely for public consumption. But I just don't see the will being there.

And that is part of the problem: massive, public outrage over such pictures would produce quick reaction from cynical politicians, I've no doubt, but that outrage seems to be... lacking, in many quarters. Once upon a time, I seem to recall something in a history of the Middle Ages mentioning, books were so rare and precious that when one monastery lent another monastery books to be copied, men-at-arms accompanied the volumes to protect them. The scriptoria were kept busy from earliest light to sunset, with monks working in cold, wet, miserable conditions to copy not just religious mss., but volumes on science and philosophy that had been brought back from the Crusades or copied by European visitors to Byzantine libraries. The awe with which people regarded the written word, and the knowledge that was contained in these texts, is hard for us to visualize. You have to wonder what happened along the way.

I've been thinking about that photograph and it occurred to me that our attitude towards transcribed information has changed radically as we've developed other means of storing it. But the growth of electronic media and the technology for storing and retrieving records has come at the price of oversight: once upon a time, for example, something like the _Encyclopædia Brittanica_ featured articles written by Nobel Prize winners or their equivalents, and publication even in ordinary outlets was relatively heavily vetted. And the post-publication reviewing process has always played a big part in the cut-and-thrust of the development of knowledge. I think a lot of that kind of concern for documentation and accuracy has diminished considerably over the past couple of decades; the emergence of Wikipedia as a supposedly authoritative source is just one indication of this. The is way more information out there now, in transient, unscrutinized venues, and, as an old professor of mine used to say, it's getting harder to find the diamonds buried in trash cans that big. But some of that attitude may be what's reflected in the photo AoG posted...


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 23, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> They are not cleaned up as it would require someone doing work *and possible getting publicity*.
> 
> I think it got like that as people abuse the system, and for years it was with the Mayor on down.
> 
> As to unused books I have no clue, but it is sad.


 
There is something about this that really bothers me.  Are public officials in Detroit afraid to get publicity?  Or is it just that difficult to get people to take any notice when things are done?


When people burn books because they don't like what's in them, that pisses me off.  But this.  This is so much worse.  In a thousand years we have gone from a position where books were so highly prized that Viking raiders sought them out, to a situation where unused books are left to rot.

Mass production has something to do with this but there is also a lack of respect for what is contained in a book.  As Exile said we have so many information sources nowadays that the quality of the knowledge has fallen.  There was a time, not so long ago, when an encyclopaedia was an authoritative source, now they are suspect.

Its like we are taking the old saying, "Ignorance is bliss." to heart and Detroit is some kind of exemplar of this.  Ignorance is only bliss if you never look up from the mud you're sitting in and wonder, "What is beyond those trees or mountains?"



A 47% literacy rate.  I never expected to hear figures like that coming out of the US.  I know the education system is not what it once was, but a number like this for a whole city?  More than half the city's population (over the age of 15) cannot read.  That one of the oldest cities in the US should be like this should be a cause for some degree of trepidation.

I just had a look at world literacy rates to do a comparison with Detroit.  Bhutan has a 47% literacy rate, and Cote d'Ivoire has a 48.1% literacy rate.  Is Detroit only just moving into the industrial/information age?  Is there a civil war?  These are the circumstances of these countries.

It may seem odd that I'm so concerned about this apathetic trend, but there is a reason.  The US and Australia are not that different, one UK visitor I met described Australia as America with kangaroos and cricket, and if this can happen there it can happen here.  That is something to be concerned about.


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## The Last Legionary (Jan 23, 2008)

Reading hasn't been "cool" for decades. It is a shame that certain ethnic groups, who once fought tooth and nail for rights, the right to know how to read being one of them, are now some of the most illiterate around.

People want others to think for them. Americans more so. Rome lasted a thousand years. America will be hard pressed to last 300.


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 23, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> There is something about this that really bothers me.  Are public officials in Detroit afraid to get publicity?  Or is it just that difficult to get people to take any notice when things are done?
> 
> 
> When people burn books because they don't like what's in them, that pisses me off.  But this.  This is so much worse.  In a thousand years we have gone from a position where books were so highly prized that Viking raiders sought them out, to a situation where unused books are left to rot.
> ...



I am not sure about today.  But a couple of years ago, the city would pay off all school loans if you were a teacher and worked for them for five years.


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 23, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> I am not sure about today. But a couple of years ago, the city would pay off all school loans if you were a teacher and worked for them for five years.


 
That's a pretty good deal, but it also tells me that the city is/was finding it tough to get teachers.


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## Cruentus (Jan 23, 2008)

Welcome to Detroit.

We really are the third world of the US over here (Detroit and Flint area). People have no concept that the crime and unemployment and poverty rates are higher here then other places. 

I love Michigan, but we really need to turn some things around...


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## Makalakumu (Jan 24, 2008)

I've been reading a book entitled "The World Without Us" and this picture so poignant in regards to the theme of that book.  What would happen if all humans suddenly disappeared from the planet?  This picture is the first step.

What people don't realize is that 100 or 1000 years is absolutely nothing in geologic terms.  Its a blink of an eye.  If human civilization collapsed in 100 years, ET historians from the future would not be able to distinguish that event in the long timeline of what would be preserved in the rock record.

It would literally be instantaeous.  

Now I'm not saying that we are going to collapse in 100 years, but if nature is reclaiming the most precious of human commodities in the "greatest country on earth" then we (or at least the US) is in serious trouble.  

I look at this picture and look at all of the money that this country spends to blow **** up and wonder...if we blow everyone else up and nature (entropy) blows us up, whose going to be around in 100 years to pick up the peices?

Ever hear of the Mayans?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 25, 2008)

Life finds a way doesn't it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (that is great)  

On the other hand the mismanagement of resources in Detroit
is staggering and well I should know I lived down there for a 
number of years.  Like Cruentus said above Detroit and Flint
are in some way's like in a different country.  Still the good,
like that plant will rise to the top!


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## MA-Caver (Jan 25, 2008)

upnorthkyosa said:


> I've been reading a book entitled "The World Without Us" and this picture so poignant in regards to the theme of that book.  What would happen if all humans suddenly disappeared from the planet?  This picture is the first step.
> 
> What people don't realize is that 100 or 1000 years is absolutely nothing in geologic terms.  Its a blink of an eye.  If human civilization collapsed in 100 years, ET historians from the future would not be able to distinguish that event in the long time line of what would be preserved in the rock record.
> 
> ...


I posted this pic before here and I'll do so again because of it's relevance and in reply to your post here... I think it's pretty self explanatory. So mebbe everyone needs to move outta detroit and start somewhere else anew and let Detroit do the same. :uhyeah:


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 25, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> I posted this pic before here and I'll do so again because of it's relevance and in reply to your post here... I think it's pretty self explanatory. So mebbe everyone needs to move outta detroit and start somewhere else anew and let Detroit do the same. :uhyeah:




While I agree that things would get better for plant and animal life. I disagree with the chart. 

Methane will be gone from the atmosphere? 

There are other sources beside humans for methane.


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## SageGhost83 (Feb 11, 2008)

Just another example of our wasteful culture. How many people in other countries could've used those books? It is sad because we are watching our country decay right before our very eyes. No child left behind, huh? Welfare state, huh? Look at the results...Seems neither the Dems nor the Pubs has done a good job lately.


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## Makalakumu (Feb 11, 2008)

They don't want to do a good job.  We are supposed to be dumbed down so that we care more about Brittney Spears then the National Budget.


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