# What happened to all the Judo schools



## Xue Sheng (May 29, 2006)

My first MA was Jujitsu so I have always liked Judo but I am wondering what is going on here.

I just happened to be driving by a place where a Judo school use to be and I noticed it was no longer there. Just out of curiosity I look through the phone book when I returned home and notice that not only was that Judo school no longer there but about half of the Judo schools that use to be in my area were gone. 

Is there something going on with Judo is there less interest today or is this normal attrition that all styles of martial arts experience?


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## terryl965 (May 29, 2006)

I believe alot have turned into the formal gym type of training:I.E. schools and rec. center, more so than at like a dojo anymore.
Terry


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## Xue Sheng (May 29, 2006)

That may explain what happened to the one near me, there is a gym there now.


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## matt.m (May 30, 2006)

For whatever reason Judo is not as popular as it once was.  It is a shame too.  Judo is a great art.  It is an olympic sport as well, so I too am a little remiss as to why it has fallen out of public favor.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jun 3, 2006)

here in Indonesia, Judo are fully supported by the government. They built government-operated Dojos for Judo athletes to train anytime (here in Jakarta there are three), and the teachers received some financial backings. The athletes, when they won medals in International events, received awards as well. So we have no immediate needs for personal/private Judo dojos.

unfortunately, the number of people practicing Judo was never very high. Judo does not have the visual appeal of kungfu, karate or aikido. The biggest Judo dojo have less than 200 active members. that's why we never have world or olympic champions.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 3, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> here in Indonesia, Judo are fully supported by the government. They built government-operated Dojos for Judo athletes to train anytime (here in Jakarta there are three), and the teachers received some financial backings. The athletes, when they won medals in International events, received awards as well. So we have no immediate needs for personal/private Judo dojos..



Government supported Judo... Cool. Do they support any other Martial Arts?



			
				jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> unfortunately, the number of people practicing Judo was never very high. Judo does not have the visual appeal of kungfu, karate or aikido. The biggest Judo dojo have less than 200 active members. that's why we never have world or olympic champions.



I think you may have hit on at least part of the problem here in the US as well. 

It just is not as visually appealing as other arts. And that is to bad, I have always liked Judo for its lack of flash and somewhat direct approach.

I probably should have taken it up when I had the chance, but the school near me is gone now. I was asked to teach Tai Chi there once, and one of the side benefits was  I could study there if I wanted. But the interest was not there to support a Tai Chi so it never happened.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jun 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Government supported Judo... Cool. Do they support any other Martial Arts?


 
yes, the government supports WTF Taekwondo, WKF Karate and Wushu (as approved by Chinese government). The KONI (Indonesian National Sports Committee) finances the athletes and officials in national and international events.



> I think you may have hit on at least part of the problem here in the US as well.
> 
> It just is not as visually appealing as other arts. And that is to bad, I have always liked Judo for its lack of flash and somewhat direct approach.


 
so is jujutsu, it is always considered as a weaker cousin of judo. after the gracie revolution in the 90s, brazilian jiujitsu gets some respects but traditional japanese jujutsu still do not get much respects.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 7, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> yes, the government supports WTF Taekwondo, WKF Karate and Wushu (as approved by Chinese government). The KONI (Indonesian National Sports Committee) finances the athletes and officials in national and international events.


 
Thanks, looks like indoniesia is the place to open an MA School




			
				jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> so is jujutsu, it is always considered as a weaker cousin of judo. after the gracie revolution in the 90s, brazilian jiujitsu gets some respects but traditional japanese jujutsu still do not get much respects.


 
I have noticed this and I feel it is wrong. My roots are in Japanese Jujitsu and I have seen the popularity of Gracie Jujitsu overshadow Japanese Jujitsu and I have never understood it to be honest. 

And I have always felt that, even though Gracie Jujitsu was very effective it, at least to me, appears to be a style different from or other than Japanese Jujitsu. I guess I have never understood the Jujitsu label on the Gracie style


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jun 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> And I have always felt that, even though Gracie Jujitsu was very effective it, at least to me, appears to be a style different from or other than Japanese Jujitsu. I guess I have never understood the Jujitsu label on the Gracie style


 
oh you should buy the film by Mifune Kyuzo sensei, it is titled "Judo no Shinzui" (if not mistaken), it shows pre-WWII Judo where they still teach all those techniques which are now banned in Judo but still allowed in Gracie Jiujitsu (such as achilles tendon lock, knee locks, toe holds etc. There is even a scene where Mifune sensei sparred with Honbei sensei and he submitted Honbei with a toe hold).

All those old Judo Newaza techniques and the self-defense tricks looks very much like modern Gracie Jiujitsu.

My sensei theorized that Gracie Jiujitsu came from early Judo of the 1920s, where Judo hasn't fully separated from Jiujitsu yet. There was a saying at that time "Judo is for sparring inside Dojo, Jiujitsu is to defend yourself outside Dojo".


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jun 7, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Thanks, looks like indoniesia is the place to open an MA School


 
not really, the people here are very poor & can't afford to pay lots of money for martial arts instructions. the richest guys are those who does Aikido and Brazil Jiujitsu, but even they will not pay more than $30 per months. Many dojos are free of charge. Even my sensei teach Jujutsu and Karate for free at universities.


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## Selfcritical (Jun 7, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> not really, the people here are very poor & can't afford to pay lots of money for martial arts instructions. the richest guys are those who does Aikido and Brazil Jiujitsu, but even they will not pay more than $30 per months. Many dojos are free of charge. Even my sensei teach Jujutsu and Karate for free at universities.




So Silat doesn't get support in indonesia, when foreign MA do? That seems wrong somehow


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## pstarr (Jun 8, 2006)

I think judo is a wonderful art, especially for people just starting out.  It's unfortunate that there are so few judo schools around anymore.  I think the "color" of the kick-punch arts kind of overwhelmed it years ago-


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## bluemtn (Jun 9, 2006)

I've enjoyed watching judo, and doing a little here and there where I train.  It's a shame that it seems to be a little out- fazed today.  Either the schools lose practitioners or lose their leases around here.  It seems like a few schools have judo added into their curriculum, though.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jun 14, 2006)

Selfcritical said:
			
		

> So Silat doesn't get support in indonesia, when foreign MA do? That seems wrong somehow


 
the government built a huge padepokan (silat dojo) in Bekasi (a small city east of the capital), it's the biggest padepokan in southeast asia. and the silat national athletes also receive some fundings for training & competition in world levels. however, government's fundings are limited to national athletes who train for world-class competitions. this means that padepokans in small cities does not get government support.


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## KOROHO (Jul 2, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> oh you should buy the film by Mifune Kyuzo sensei, it is titled "Judo no Shinzui" (if not mistaken), it shows pre-WWII Judo where they still teach all those techniques which are now banned in Judo but still allowed in Gracie Jiujitsu (such as achilles tendon lock, knee locks, toe holds etc. There is even a scene where Mifune sensei sparred with Honbei sensei and he submitted Honbei with a toe hold).
> 
> All those old Judo Newaza techniques and the self-defense tricks looks very much like modern Gracie Jiujitsu.
> 
> My sensei theorized that Gracie Jiujitsu came from early Judo of the 1920s, where Judo hasn't fully separated from Jiujitsu yet.


 
This is exactly what happened.  The Gracie father/grandfather (who ever it was that got it all started was a Judoka.  They just never changed with the new Judo.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 3, 2006)

KOROHO said:
			
		

> This is exactly what happened. The Gracie father/grandfather (who ever it was that got it all started was a Judoka. They just never changed with the new Judo.


 
oh that's very interesting. It means my sensei's research are correct. Thank you for the confirmation.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 3, 2006)

On the subject of Judo in Indonesia and it being subsidized

I think I read something yesterday that talked about the ruler of Indonesia taking great interest in the Judo of Kano and being taught by Kano. This may have something to do with why it was subsidized in the first place.

I will have to see if I can find that again. However I may be wrong, I was reading a lot about MA and some of it was about Indonesia and my old addled brain could be a bit confused. 

I will get back to this


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 3, 2006)

There were no Indonesia yet when Prof. Kano were still alive. Prof Kano died in mid 1930s. Indonesia is officially an independent country by 1950. The declaration of Independence was 1945 and we had a 5 years war against the Dutch until the U.N. decided that the Dutch should leave us alone.

However, there were lots of small kingdoms in Dutch East Indies (the name of Indonesia before the independence). It is possible that one of the sultans or maharajas from one of the small kingdoms here became interested with Judo and learned from Prof. Kano or his student. My teacher have found documents stating that a member of East Javanese nobility, a certain Raden Djoko Said, learned "Jiu Jitsu" under a Watanabe Atsuki sensei, a member of the Kodokan, in the 1920s.

Also, it is interesting to note that our first President Soekarno was a firm believer of "Sports Diplomacy", and thus, winning International sporting events to him are important diplomatic gesture. And yes, he encourages all types of sports, including Judo/Jujutsu. During his rule (1950s to 1966), Judo and Jujutsu are very popular in Indonesia, he even included it in the PON (Pekan Olahraga Nasional, national sporting event) together with Pencak Silat.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 3, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> There were no Indonesia yet when Prof. Kano were still alive. Prof Kano died in mid 1930s. Indonesia is officially an independent country by 1950. The declaration of Independence was 1945 and we had a 5 years war against the Dutch until the U.N. decided that the Dutch should leave us alone.
> 
> However, there were lots of small kingdoms in Dutch East Indies (the name of Indonesia before the independence). It is possible that one of the sultans or maharajas from one of the small kingdoms here became interested with Judo and learned from Prof. Kano or his student. My teacher have found documents stating that a member of East Javanese nobility, a certain Raden Djoko Said, learned "Jiu Jitsu" under a Watanabe Atsuki sensei, a member of the Kodokan, in the 1920s.
> 
> Also, it is interesting to note that our first President Soekarno was a firm believer of "Sports Diplomacy", and thus, winning International sporting events to him are important diplomatic gesture. And yes, he encourages all types of sports, including Judo/Jujutsu. During his rule (1950s to 1966), Judo and Jujutsu are very popular in Indonesia, he even included it in the PON (Pekan Olahraga Nasional, national sporting event) together with Pencak Silat.


 
I will look it up and get back to you; I think I remember what book I read it in. Like I said I could be wrong.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 3, 2006)

I checked the book and I was confused.

It was prince Wibulya Swasdiwonga Swasdikal (I aint makin this up folks, thats his name) of Thailand that studied Kodokan Judo and later taught it. 

The mix up comes from another thing I read that talked about a martial art from Indonesia/Malaysia called Kun Tao or Kun Tow that got mixed with Judo amongst other things.


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## Ivan86 (Jul 3, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> It just is not as visually appealing as other arts. And that is to bad, I have always liked Judo for its lack of flash and somewhat direct approach.


That's the problem, Judo isn't flashy and the mainstream just believe the ******** they see in all the hollywood 'kung fu' movies is effective. That's how it works with my friends, they tried Judo and thought it was useless because you don't strike your opponent.

But, they only hung around for like a week so they dont really have a clue what theyre talking about.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 4, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> I checked the book and I was confused.
> 
> It was prince Wibulya Swasdiwonga Swasdikal (I aint makin this up folks, thats his name) of Thailand that studied Kodokan Judo and later taught it.
> 
> The mix up comes from another thing I read that talked about a martial art from Indonesia/Malaysia called Kun Tao or Kun Tow that got mixed with Judo amongst other things.


 
Oh, Kuntao? Kuntao is how Chinese-Indonesians (Chinese immigrants and their descendants who settled in Indonesia) call the self-defense arts of their ancestors. It is roughly equivalent to Quanfa in Mandarin. You are right, here in Indones, many Chinese-Indonesians with previous Kuntao knowledge learned Judo, Jujutsu and Karate, and combined the Wazas from those arts into Kuntao.


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## Xue Sheng (Jul 4, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Oh, Kuntao? Kuntao is how Chinese-Indonesians (Chinese immigrants and their descendants who settled in Indonesia) call the self-defense arts of their ancestors. It is roughly equivalent to Quanfa in Mandarin. You are right, here in Indones, many Chinese-Indonesians with previous Kuntao knowledge learned Judo, Jujutsu and Karate, and combined the Wazas from those arts into Kuntao.


 
Sorry about the mix up.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 4, 2006)

please do not be sorry. I am so happy anyone are interested in my insignificant country. Thank you very much!


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## kenpo002 (Jul 17, 2006)

*is there anyone who knows of a certified judo instructor in the northeast ohio area....  i have only found the local y.m.c.a , but that is only for a short introductory course . i have e-mailed the instructor at this ymca a few times with no responce, if anyone can help. please e-mail me at kenpo002@aol.com*


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## kenpo002 (Jul 20, 2006)

I AM LOOKING FOR JUI-JITSU / JUDO TRAINING IN NORTH EAST OHIO. CAN ANYONE HELP ME...... OR AN ART THAT TEACHES AT LEAST 50% GROUND FIGHTING


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