# Lance Corporal David Motari



## Fiendlover (Mar 5, 2008)

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/43462/9fb16ab3/us_soldaat_gooit_puppy.html

petition overview | letter



*Stand Against Puppy-Killing Soldiers*

Target:
US Military

Sponsored by: 
Concerned US Citizens

*UPDATE:* YouTube has pulled the video, but you can still see it here.

Recently, a video clip surfaced of a US soldier and his buddy throwing an innocent puppy off a cliff in what looks like Iraq.  You're there to defend America and bring freedom, not needlessly kill animals!

Tell the US Military to take action against US soldiers abusing animals in Iraq.  This is not an isolated incident. Actions like these hurt America's moral standing in the world and only distract from bringing our brave men and women home from the war.

Throw the book at these guys! Sign the petition and note the story on C2NN now!

Click here to note the C2NN story.

*im not old enough to sign the petiton myself which is why i posting this here knowing that most likely a lot of you will.  this is wrong by all means.  a life is a life no matter what has it and to kill an innocent puppy is lower than earths core.   and who's doing the throwing?  oh arent they REPRESENTING OUR COUNTRY?!  now how does that make us look?  we are already hated by countries and killing innocents human or not isn't helping us.  i love animals and this is wrong by all degrees.  do you want marines like these protecting our country when killing is apparently just fun and games.  you know its just another thing another day in iraq.  well **** them and they can go straight to hell.*
*:xtrmshock:jaw-dropping::flammad::disgust::erg::321::ticked::deadhorse:angry::cuss::miffer::bird::bs::rpo:  
*


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## MJS (Mar 5, 2008)

What the hell is wrong with people?????????  That guy doesnt deserve to represent the armed forces.  Hes a sick individual who seems to have no regard for life.  

Big tough man to hurt a defenseless animal.


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## Fiendlover (Mar 5, 2008)

i know.  it's so disgusting.


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## Doc_Jude (Mar 5, 2008)

I don't know, it didn't look right to me. Who knows? I'll definitely keep up with that story, though. Someone should smack the piss out of those two, Someone as in Brass, and smack as in court marshal for conduct unbecoming.


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## shesulsa (Mar 5, 2008)

I've read and heard the incident is being investigated.


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## Big Don (Mar 5, 2008)

It may well be a hoax. This puppy looks awfully familiar... 






 This is not a current USMC uniform




This is a current USMC uniform


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 5, 2008)

If it's a hoax, the truth will out.

If not.........."I'm sorry, Sir, my weapon must have a problem with the trigger disconnect, I was making ready for patrol, and when I chambered a round, Sir, I'm afraid my weapon misfired....."


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## crushing (Mar 5, 2008)

Big Don said:


> It may well be a hoax. This puppy looks awfully familiar...
> This is not a current USMC uniform
> 
> This is a current USMC uniform


 
Maybe he's wearing the Neo-Winter Soldier uniform?


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## Big Don (Mar 5, 2008)

crushing said:


> Maybe he's wearing the Neo-Winter Soldier uniform?


ala Jesse Macbeth? Could be, hoax or not those involved in the production of the video are **** heads.


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## terryl965 (Mar 5, 2008)

He needs to be tared and feathered.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 5, 2008)

Haha!  Crushing and Andy, you guys are too much!

If this is real, these two Marines just took a big "bathroom dump" on the Marine Corps!  

I'm hoping this is not true!  Look at BigDon's post -- surely the Marine Corp would not field personnel in less than standard uniforms, would they?


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## MA-Caver (Mar 5, 2008)

Gonna wait and see if it's a hoax or not... since it's been plastered on the net then the Marine command will have to investigate and issue a statement either condemning the video as a hoax or condemning the soldiers for an act of barbarism. 
Calm down folks, lets see if this is a for-real thing or not. It looks real, yes... but there's something... I can't quite place my finger on it.


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## CoryKS (Mar 5, 2008)

WTF, over?!  I'm going to wait and see on this.  I've seen Marines act badly, but nothing like this.  It could be a hoax.  If it's real then he has, as Robert said, taken a big dump on the Corps and you can rest assured that the Corps WILL take a ginormous dump on him.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

Snopes is working this one already.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/throwpuppy.asp


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 5, 2008)

Well I am sure that one way or the other that the Marine command will get to the bottom of this.  I would not want to be the soldier's in the video hoax or not.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 5, 2008)

It's a shame that similar YouTube vids with soldiers admitting to and/or committing war crimes never got the outrage or investigation that this one did.  Truly, it's just a dog, worse things go on there to human beings on a daily basis.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

I take everything said on network news with a grain of salt.

Id have to have anything on YouTube PROVEN as authentic before Ill swallow it.


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## bigkicks (Mar 5, 2008)

i,m kinda on the side that it looks like a hoax. dog looks lifeless, you really can;t tell if dead or is stuff. i hope it is not true but, if it is true we need not to condem all marines or the core. we need to look at the psychological impact on the people being exposed to the atrocities of war.

just like in Gitmo, these soldiers day in and day out are in harms way, seeing things that would make a billy goat puke, and we expect them to be senesitive, or put as same value on a human life that we do back in states. i am not condoning this action nor could i ever see a point in taking of an animal with out cause. but we really need to investigate the mental capcity of our vets coming out of country.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 5, 2008)

bigkicks said:


> just like in Gitmo, these soldiers day in and day out are in harms way, seeing things that would make a billy goat puke, and we expect them to be senesitive, or put as same value on a human life that we do back in states. i am not condoning this action nor could i ever see a point in taking of an animal with out cause. but we really need to investigate the mental capcity of our vets coming out of country.



Yes!  Even if it IS true (we don't know if it is or not), these people are surely being affected by the war.


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## Big Don (Mar 5, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> It's a shame that similar YouTube vids with soldiers admitting to and/or committing war crimes never got the outrage or investigation that this one did. .


You mean like this guy? Yeah, those bastards must be stopped


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## Empty Hands (Mar 5, 2008)

Big Don said:


> You mean like this guy? Yeah, those bastards must be stopped



Yes, because one was fake, they all must be.

Good logic, Don! :highfive:

You also missed the point.


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## theletch1 (Mar 5, 2008)

As a former Marine myself I'm sickened to think that this could be anything other than a hoax.  As a member of the forum I'm a bit concerned that the last two posts could derail this thread. *cough* nudge *cough*.


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## newGuy12 (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm not trying to derail this thread either, but I wish to also put this link up here:

http://www.on-a-limb.com/?p=1047

Now that is how Marines are.  These two, IF it pans out, are very different, AND, those of us who are not in the combat do not know what kind of stress that can put on someone.


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## CoryKS (Mar 5, 2008)

newGuy12 said:


> I'm not trying to derail this thread either, but I wish to also put this link up here:
> 
> http://www.on-a-limb.com/?p=1047
> 
> Now that is how Marines are. These two, IF it pans out, are very different, AND, those of us who are not in the combat do not know what kind of stress that can put on someone.


 
That's right, those of us who are not in combat do not know what kind of stress it can put on someone.  But we can draw certain conclusions from the many thousands of men and women who WERE in the combat and didn't feel the need to kill dogs.  So even if this turns out to be true, let's not be too quick to assign an excuse for this person's behavior, regardless of how nicely it may tie in to our own views regarding war.  Stress or not, this was an individual's choice, an individual's action, and the blame lies squarely with him.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Yes, because one was fake, they all must be.
> 
> Good logic, Don! :highfive:
> 
> You also missed the point.


 
Well. It does show that people like that are out there and one should be sure of a videos authenticity before jumping to conclusions.


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## jks9199 (Mar 5, 2008)

Unfortunately -- I have it from very reliable sources that this is true, and these idiots did do this.

Investigations are on-going, and appropriate actions are being taken.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 5, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Well. It does show that people like that are out there and one should be sure of a videos authenticity before jumping to conclusions.



Of course.  You'll notice I did not say that this vid or any others was or was not authentic.  What I am commenting on is the fury, outrage and _immediate _investigations that this video sparked whereas other videos purporting to show similar actions against humans did not provoke outrage or more importantly investigations.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

[general rant] Even if it is true, the outcry for blood far outstrips what the punishment should be. I think an Article 15 [I think in the USMC its a "mast"] would normally suffice. Ive seen it used in worse cases [ask any vet of Desert Storm if they ever saw a camel shot up]. In the end the hype is because it was a puppy and we all have a soft spot for them in our society. We expect these guys to kill humans in our name but get all crazy when this happens? If true, this troop was a knucklehead who should be punished and we all should move on. Making this into some damnation of the USMC or the War is stupid. Grow up and wake up. In the scheme of war and killing this is more of a public relations problem than anything else. [/general rant]

Was this guy right or should he go unpunished? Not at all. If I were his NCO Id be kicking his *** for 1. killing a defenseless animal and 2. having it taped and put up on the net for all to see. What a lack of judgment all the way around. These days, if I were a CO there would be no way anybody, besides someone assigned it as a duty, would be out on patrol with a personal video camera.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Of course. You'll notice I did not say that this vid or any others was or was not authentic. What I am commenting on is the fury, outrage and _immediate _investigations that this video sparked whereas other videos purporting to show similar actions against humans did not provoke outrage or more importantly investigations.


 
True. Kind of goes with my last post.


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## Andrew Green (Mar 5, 2008)

I think with humans there is that background excuse that they could have been very bad people that had done very bad things.  There is outrage, as with the Guantonamo Bay pictures, but a lot of people will still have that justification, that they where evil people, might not deserve what was being done, but they where bad.  They even fit the image of what we get shoved in our faces about how bad islamic terrorists are supposed to look. A puppy is innocent no matter how you look at it.  That puppy could not possibly have been a terrorist or anything more then a cute, innocent puppy.  How do you excuse binding its feet and throwing it off a cliff for sport?

There can be no "he was a terrorist", no "We needed information from him", nothing.  Just killing for fun, nothing more.

I agree that actions against humans should definately get the same sort of outrage, but that would be my guess as too why this causes such a big story.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 5, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> [general rant] Even if it is true, the outcry for blood far outstrips what the punishment should be. I think an Article 15 [I think in the USMC its a "mast"] would normally suffice........  [/general rant]
> 
> .


 

Dude, don't even worry about it, I know Marines, even have gotten to train alongside "former" Marines( at least 4 in my unit).

Anything we can think up to do to these two if it turns out to be warranted will be nowhere near as poetic, as profound, and anywhere near as big of a dump on these two as the Corps will administer.


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## arnisador (Mar 5, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> If it's a hoax, the truth will out.
> 
> If not.........."I'm sorry, Sir, my weapon must have a problem with the trigger disconnect, I was making ready for patrol, and when I chambered a round, Sir, I'm afraid my weapon misfired....."



Are you suggesting murdering a man for killing a dog?


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## Lisa (Mar 5, 2008)

I am so sorry I even watched that.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 5, 2008)

Lisa said:


> I am so sorry I even watched that.


The marine *wouldn't* have been able to do that if it were the CHEW!  
He'd lose his arm.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 5, 2008)

*Angel*, defence of the military forces of your country is an admirable thing but as with any body of humans there are those within that are indefensible.  

To even try to defend a situation, real or not, such as depicted here, serves only to undermine future defences for other atrocities commited under cover of your flag.

If it turns out to be real, I certainly wouldn't want to be acknowledged as being of the same nationality of such men - indeed I'd object to being defined as even the same species.

Cruelty is cruelty and the ability to commit such an act is a pretty fair indemnification of a mans character.  Do it it to a puppy ... do it to a child ... it's not an extreme stretch once a soul has proven it's callousness.


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## Archangel M (Mar 5, 2008)

If you thought that i was "defending" these actions you are wrong. But "cruelty"? These guys are trained to put the barrel of a gun in an enemys face and pull the trigger. Or shove a bayonet in a mans gut. And not just once. Getting all worked up over a dog getting killed is a bit odd in comparison. Its still wrong, but here we have the "fat, lame and lazy" [an old military term for "non military" no personal insult] blowing gaskets over a dog but expect him to go into a house and kill the enemy in close quarters combat. And if you dont think that the Brit troops have done something comparable on occasion Id say you were mistaken. They have just been smart enough to not post it to You Tube [yet].

The idiot* should* be punished, a Captain's Mast, a reduction in rank, loss of pay, etc. for stupidity. And have his *** kicked by his squad leader -where the hell was HE btw? If that was my troop he would have been low crawling down that ravine and bringing the dog back up in his teeth. 

Ran out of the service or imprisoned?? Please. Send him to war, that ought to teach him.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 6, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Are you suggesting murdering a man for killing a dog?


 

Not literally, no. That'll be my dark humor not manifesting itself correctly in a forum post again.

But what can I say? I have a special dark place in my heart for animal abusers. For any kind of abusers, really.


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## Brian Johns (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm a big supporter of US troops and admire what they are doing in the defense of this great country. But there is absolutely no excuse for what this Marine did. None. No two ways about it. I'm sure that the Marine Corps will find the appropriate punishment for this so called soldier.


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## Archangel M (Mar 6, 2008)

It's a ****ing shame that we have these young men fighting and dying for us over in that **** hole called Iraq, and the biggest story in recent memory is this Bull ****.


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 6, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> It's a ****ing shame that we have these young men fighting and dying for us over in that **** hole called Iraq, and the biggest story in recent memory is this Bull ****.


 
I'd have put it in less earthy terms, but it comes to that, yes.


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## digitalronin (Mar 6, 2008)

This is making rounds around the net and was wondering what you all think about this?  I know the marines are under a lot of stress but this dude seems to enjoy what he is doing 






*not Not for kids


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## fireman00 (Mar 6, 2008)

I would hope that military training would cover "its good to kill enemy combatants" and ".. its not good to kill a child, mother, or puppy".  

If proven to be a "real" puppy there is no excuse at all for what he did and he should receive the full punishment allowed by the military.  

I guess Mom and Dad must be thrilled with him... having to disconnect their phone, getting death threats and having the local police dept cruise the neighborhood.

Not sure what was up with video taping the incident....


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## theletch1 (Mar 6, 2008)

*Moderator note:*

Threads merged. Post number 41 of this thread the opening (and only) post from thread titled:
_"Lance Corporal David Matori_."


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## grydth (Mar 6, 2008)

Assuming for the purposes of debate that the video is genuine, it is likely the military will rapidly administratively discharge him as unfit for service.... a process variously referred to through the years as "chaptering out" or "Section 8'ing". 

The military has considerable experience and interest in this, and there is no need to keep the cards and letters rolling in.

This hardly reflects on the entire Marine Corps..... well, unless you already hate the Corps and are looking for a cause celebre to justify and trumpet your biases. The military, after all, draws recruits from society..... and there are all too numerous instances of this type of thing reported every day in civilian America..... lately to child victims more than animals.

If Mr Motari is guilty, yet wants to continue puppy killing without all the criticism, he should leave the Marine Corps and instead join al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah....... they have an amazing and consistent record of cold blooded murder and mayhem - as organizations - and yet one sees no petitions about them. C'mon folks, that market bombing exploiting the two mentally challenged women had to have killed some animals (as well as people)........

Where's the outrage?


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## Andy Moynihan (Mar 6, 2008)

It's there, but you won't see it as much because you'll never see our media demoralizing the *enemy* for a change.

FWIW I was outraged too, but by the time I saw the thread about it it had run its course, I just happened to catch this one while still new/active was all.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 7, 2008)

grydth said:


> ...he should leave the Marine Corps and instead join al Qaeda, Hamas or Hezbollah....... they have an amazing and consistent record of cold blooded murder and mayhem - as organizations - and yet one sees no petitions about them.



Because we all know that Osama binLaden would stop his jihad in a moment if enough netizens signed an email petition. 

We expect more out of the United States military, and consider them amenable to change and good behavior.  Few expect the same out of Hamas or alQaeda, which is why you don't see petitions about them.  What would be the point?


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## Archangel M (Mar 7, 2008)

Maybe I shouldn't be "leaking" this info, but I have it from "reliable sources" "over there" that wild dogs are a menace in greater Iraq. During the Fallujah campaign wild dogs roamed the streets eating corpses. Some are outright aggressive and its common to just shoot them out of hand. Around some US bases soldiers are [or at least were] tasked as "hunter teams" to go around the perimeter and shoot wild dogs out of hand. During GW I it wasn't unusual for troops to take a pot shot at a camel here or there with an AT4 or a Bradley Bushmaster. Dont get caught by the Platoon Leader, but it happened.

This uproar is a tempest in a teapot. This was a puppy and was unnecessary but it may have been a thought process of "either now or later". In the end the knuckleheads were stupid for filming and posting this as if proud of it, and the callousness of it is offensive, but thats about it.


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## Archangel M (Mar 7, 2008)

http://glimpseofiraq.blogspot.com/2005/02/dogs-in-iraq.html


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## Sukerkin (Mar 7, 2008)

Interesting link. *Angel*.  

I learned something I didn't previously know, which is good.  Also, I had an entire culture go down a notch in my estimation, which is not so good .  

There's a reason why dogs are called 'man's best friend', by us (the British) at least and a nation which does not think like that ... obviously has a different history where the bond between man and dog was not so beneficial to both.  

I can't help my bone deep prejudices and thus am unrepentant in my ire at the act that spawned all these words.


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## Archangel M (Mar 7, 2008)

I hear you. I love my dog and Im not happy with this video thing. But I think there is a loss of perspective going on with the hype over it and the punishment expected.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 7, 2008)

I do understand your point of view on this, truly and think you have a valid point.  

The human psyche can be a strange thing with what we 'cherry pick' as morally offensive being quite disproportionate at times.

I think it is perhaps tied up with what we _see_ rather than what we _read_ and how the 'story' is presented (whether it be news or fiction (is there a difference these days?)).


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## Ceicei (Jun 11, 2008)

An update to this story.  The two marines were disciplined for their part with the puppy toss.

http://www.komonews.com/news/19809869.html

- Ceicei


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## shesulsa (Jun 12, 2008)

Ceicei said:


> An update to this story.  The two marines were disciplined for their part with the puppy toss.
> 
> http://www.komonews.com/news/19809869.html
> 
> - Ceicei


That article conflicts with this one stating that only Motari was "expelled."


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## CoryKS (Jun 12, 2008)

Looks like both received NJP and Motari will probably receive an Other Than Honorable discharge.  Good riddance to him.


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