# Fall From Grace



## FearlessFreep (May 17, 2006)

I just wanted to admit that I am no longer doing true Taekwondo.  The last few times I have sought out dojangs it seemed I was running into "martial sport" with some nods to self-defense, but the self-defense drilling was not, in my mind, very realistic or useful.  I originally got into Taekwondo as a combination of physical exercise and self-defense; I didn't even know anything about it's olympic involvement or tournaments.  When I found out there were tournaments I htought "great, a way to practice these techniques against an opponent" but the more I spent time at it, the moreI realized that tournament sparring was it's own sport thing that had, in many ways, little really to do with the use of Taekwondo as a means of personal combat.  It's hard to find a school that treats Taekwondo first and foremost as a means of martial art, personal combat, personal self-defense

So now I'm taking a class in what the head instructor calls "Hybrid Hapkido" which is strongly Hapkido based, has a *lot* of kicks I've seen in Taekwondo, but invovles joint licks, takedowns, falling, throwing, ground fighting, etc... and *all* based on self-defense. It fits in closer with my desire for myself and my family of Martial Art as that tool for both personal fitness but primarily self-defense.


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## Phadrus00 (May 17, 2006)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> So now I'm taking a class in what the head instructor calls "Hybrid Hapkido" which is strongly Hapkido based, has a *lot* of kicks I've seen in Taekwondo, but invovles joint licks, takedowns, falling, throwing, ground fighting, etc... and *all* based on self-defense. It fits in closer with my desire for myself and my family of Martial Art as that tool for both personal fitness but primarily self-defense.


 
Congrats on finding an Art that matches your interests and inclinations!  That is wonderful!

Regards,
Rob


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## terryl965 (May 17, 2006)

Fearless this is not a fall from grace but an awakening to your inner peace as a Martial Artist. I'm one that is a purest of TKD but every single person needs to be fulfilled and I'm happy for you to be able to find a school that can challenge you and keep you in completely.
You have wisdom that only some may hope to have.
My brother in life journey
Terry


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## Mcura (May 17, 2006)

If it makes you feel any better, you're still doing a Korean-derived style.  Otherwise, you made the right decision for your own needs at this time.  No harm, no foul in that.


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## crushing (May 17, 2006)

I definately agree with Terry that this is not a fall from grace.  In fact, your new instructor's "Hybrid Hapkido" sounds a lot like my instructor's TKD class.  Well. . . except for the 'joint licks' part, we haven't gotten into that.


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## bluemtn (May 17, 2006)

I'm glad to hear that you found a class that suits you the best!  Like everyone has said, it's not a "fall from grace", just a new venture.  Best wishes with your new training!


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## Gemini (May 17, 2006)

crushing said:
			
		

> Well. . . except for the 'joint licks' part, we haven't gotten into that.


 
Ewwww.

Actually, I agree "Fall from grace" isn't exactly accurate. If the opportunity fails to present itself regarding what you want and what your options are, you're doing what I would do. Staying true to what isn't true makes no sense. All I can say is, Good luck with your new training!


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## Last Fearner (May 17, 2006)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> I just wanted to admit that I am no longer doing true Taekwondo... It's hard to find a school that treats Taekwondo first and foremost as a means of martial art, personal combat, personal self-defense
> 
> So now I'm taking a class in what the head instructor calls "Hybrid Hapkido" which is strongly Hapkido based, has a *lot* of kicks I've seen in Taekwondo, but invovles joint licks, takedowns, falling, throwing, ground fighting, etc... and *all* based on self-defense.


 
No longer doing "true Taekwondo??" It is my opinion that you might have finally found "*True Taekwondo*." Not the Modern interpretation of one organization or another . . . not "mixed up martial art"  . . . not "cross-training" nor "cross-dressing"  . . . and not even "hybrid" anything.

What you describe is what *true* Korean Taekwondo is supposed to be - - *striking* (punches, elbows, kicks, knees, head butts), *throwing* (tripping, sweeping, reaping, flipping, and takedowns), and *holding* (joint locks, pressure points, chokes, and body controls). Blocking, parrying, escapes, and avoidance - - *General self defense* in all its aspects - - Everything that ancient Subak, Taekyon, Hwarang-do, and Hapkido had to offer - -*TAEKWONDO!*

Glad you have discovered it (whatever you want to call it). I hope others do the same! :ultracool 

CM D. J. Eisenhart


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## IcemanSK (May 17, 2006)

You looked for what you wanted & you found something that fits you, there's nothing wrong with that. If you said you had enough of the Arts & took up shuffleboard, then we'd need to talk.:uhyeah: 

Best wishes to you.


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## bignick (May 17, 2006)

*traitor*

No...just kidding, glad you found something that suits...continuing training is more important than worrying about stylistic differences


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## FearlessFreep (May 17, 2006)

_
No longer doing "true Taekwondo??" It is my opinion that you might have finally found "*True Taekwondo*."_

Thanks/  I think in many ways I would tend to agree.  The current school I am in is the closest I have found to what my first school in Taekwondo was like and in many ways it feels like an advancement as many of the techniques I first learned I am no learning to do better, both in strikes but also in joint *lo*cks and throws and such.

I dearly love Taekwondo as an Art and think it can be a great means of self-defense, but it's hard to find a school with that focus.  All this means in some ways, though, is just that I am no longer working on new forms or Taekwondo belts.  Perhaps at some point in the near future I will go to a formal Taekwondo school to work through to acheive my Black Belt in Taekwondo, simply as a statement of accomplishment

And my first Taekwondo instructor actually was in favor of this direction in my life


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## bluemtn (May 17, 2006)

IcemanSK said:
			
		

> You looked for what you wanted & you found something that fits you, there's nothing wrong with that. If you said you had enough of the Arts & took up shuffleboard, then we'd need to talk.:uhyeah:
> 
> Best wishes to you.


 
OOPS!!  Now I know what I need to keep secret from Iceman!  Note to self:  keep my moonlighting of shuffleboard a secret...


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## matt.m (May 17, 2006)

That is awesome, you got into a hapkido class.  I am studying Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido.  I love the forms of TKD, they are a great workout.  I am a bigger fan of the self defense aspect of Hapkido though.


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## Makalakumu (May 18, 2006)

Last Fearner said:
			
		

> No longer doing "true Taekwondo??" It is my opinion that you might have finally found "*True Taekwondo*." Not the Modern interpretation of one organization or another . . . not "mixed up martial art"  . . . not "cross-training" nor "cross-dressing"  . . . and not even "hybrid" anything.
> 
> What you describe is what *true* Korean Taekwondo is supposed to be - - *striking* (punches, elbows, kicks, knees, head butts), *throwing* (tripping, sweeping, reaping, flipping, and takedowns), and *holding* (joint locks, pressure points, chokes, and body controls). Blocking, parrying, escapes, and avoidance - - *General self defense* in all its aspects - - Everything that ancient Subak, Taekyon, Hwarang-do, and Hapkido had to offer - -*TAEKWONDO!*
> 
> ...


 
Master Eisenhart

In Tang Soo Do, all of the traditional hyung have effective striking, blocking, locking, and throwing techniques.  They are the common thread for us (unbeknownst to many Tangsoodoin unfortunately).  From an educational perspective, having this common underlying thread tying everything together, is important.  It shows a mature, well thought, and efficiently learned curriculum.

How is this done with the TKD that you have described as true TKD?

In the last 20 years, I've had the opportunity to train with a number of TKD people.  Here are a few things that I've observed...

1.  For the most part, TKD was generally viewed as a striking art.
2.  Ho Sin Shul (Self Defense) sets were often an additional part of the curriculum and they looked suspiciously like poorly understood Goshinjutsu Kata.
3.  Basics, Forms, and Fighting were divorced from each other in the sense that no one blocked or struck in fighting in the ways that they were practicing with the basics and the forms.  
4.  If other techniques were practiced as basics, kicking techniques dominated with them occupying up to 90% of practice time.

If what you described above is true TKD, then I would be very interested to know how it all comes together.  I'd like to know how it is practiced and how everything balances out.  Further, I think it would be interesting to look at the source material for all of those techniques.  Did all of this come from ancient subak, taekyon, and the hwarang or is it an amalgamation of other asian arts?

I realize that these questions are a tall order, but I mean no disrespect by them.  I am just curious as to this concept of true TKD.

Thanks in advance

upnorthkyosa


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## Last Fearner (May 18, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I realize that these questions are a tall order, but I mean no disrespect by them. I am just curious as to this concept of true TKD.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> upnorthkyosa


 
kyosa,

I appreciate your interest in understanding my statements about how I interpret the definition of "True Taekwondo," and I do not consider your questions as disrespectful at all. Since this might become an indepth conversation, off topic here, I will start a new thread. My initial response might not answer all of your questions, but it should get the ball rolling, and we can go back and forth with posts to clarify these points. Anyones else can join in on the discussion as well.

Thanks for asking!
CM D. J. Eisenhart


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## Gemini (May 19, 2006)

I'm there! opcorn:


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## terryl965 (May 19, 2006)

Me too!!
Terry


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