# How old is kung fu?



## arnisador (Jan 20, 2002)

I was asked today, "How old is kung fu?" and I responded that it is often traced to the Buddha but that I suspect it was more likely that, as anything truly resembling kung fu, it is less than a thousand years old. Does anyone know what _scholars_ think on this issue, as opposed to the legends passed on by instructors?


----------



## taopeng (Jan 21, 2002)

I come nowhere near qualifying as an expert, but I have taken up Shuai-Chiao in the last year and in the reading I've done on its background, I have gathered that it traces its roots (gross mechanics, training fundamentals, etc) back over 2,000 years to the Chin Dynasty. However, it wasn't present in a form easily recognizable to moderns until sometime around 1200-1300 (I've only seen a few histories and all have been sketchy on this point). Needless to say, this is all tantamount to hearsay and I don't claim at all to be an expert. However, as an answer to your question, Kung Fu (or its fundamentals at least) seems to go back to around 300BC.
Hope this has been of some help; of course anyone more qualified than me is more than welcome to trump my thoughts.


----------



## arnisador (Jan 22, 2002)

Thanks--I think that the not easily recognizable until 1200-1300 or so matches what I thought.

How are you finding Shuai-Chiao? I've seen some books/articles on it and it looks most interesting but it's hard to tell the feel of an art from a book.


----------



## taopeng (Jan 24, 2002)

Actually I find it quite interesting. I am very green with respect to the martial arts, but have been training in Remy Presas' Modern Arnis for the last year and a half or so, and have been doing Shuai-Chiao for only about 4 months. Of what I have seen it is a very nice blend between internal and external styles. While most of the basic exercizes we do are movements that emphasize stretching and "centering", my limited experience working with and watching the advanced students tells me that it is more than capable of being external. It teaches tan-tui forms, and our class at least spends quite a lot of time working on an array of punches and kicks along with the more internal throws and chin-na type attacks. I am far from feeling up to competing in the art, but I have seen the more advanced students go at each other, and while some call it  "chinese wrestling", I would be more inclined to liken it to playing chess with your balance. 
As far as what I, personally, have learned so far, I am pleased. My teacher is very knowledgeable and comes from a very hard-style background (shotokan karate or something of the sort, if my memory serves), which allows him to sprinkle in a bit of ying with the yang. I have noticed a phenominal improvement in my balance, which has helped quite alot with my Arnis, as I am sure you can imagine. The throws I have been exposed to seem very effective, and several of them I could even imagine being usefully adjusted to suit "real-world" type encounters. Lastly, the nature of the art demands that in order to get very far at all beyond the fundamentals, one must become quite adept at taking falls without the luxury of slapping the mat when you hit. The confidence boost that comes to me as a beginning martial artist when I can fly several feet through the air and land without injury is huge. 
So if I were to sum up my rambling I would have to say I am very pleased with it. While Arnis is still my art of choice, I think perhaps some day I might be so cocky as to start intermingling the two (Flow drills would become quite something with a smattering of kung-fu thrown in  ). But for now I am content to just try and keep my tan-tuis from looking too laughable...


----------



## arnisador (Jan 24, 2002)

Thanks! I had thought of Shuai-Chiao as an almost exclusive throwing art, similar in general to judo or aikido in that regard.


----------



## Chiduce (Mar 1, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *I was asked today, "How old is kung fu?" and I responded that it is often traced to the Buddha but that I suspect it was more likely that, as anything truly resembling kung fu, it is less than a thousand years old. Does anyone know what scholars think on this issue, as opposed to the legends passed on by instructors? *


 My information trace kung fu back to the 3rd century A.D. to Dr. Hua  deriving his system of exercises based on the locomotor systems of the tigers, deers, birds and other animals. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


----------



## disciple (Mar 1, 2002)

From what I know, first Hua To (a surgeon) introduced health exercises called "Frolics of the Five Animals" (Deer, Tiger, Bear, Monkey, and Bird) in 190 - 265. But not until Ta Mo (Bodhidharma) came to China in about 520-525, did gong fu started in Shaolin temple.

salute
:asian:


----------



## Nightingale (Sep 10, 2003)

anyone else have any more info??


----------

