# Holding boards for breaking



## jthomas1600 (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm just kind of wondering what everyone's experience with this is. Neither my son or I have held boards before and last night the instructor called me up to break with a tornado kick... which is not my best kick and I had been sitting on my knees (I'm 44). So to pull this off cold and unexpected like this with no warm ups is going to be extremely challenging but then he asked my 15 year old son to hold the board. Yes....I kicked his hand the first time. It was the first time I felt a lot of pressure in a board breaking situation. Then I held for him doing a jumping spinning back kick. I was really worried I would somehow mess it up for him, but he pulled it off on the second attempt. 

What's your experience with this?


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## Kacey (Jun 4, 2011)

Holding for breaking is a skill - and like any other skill, it requires practice.  Board holding apparatus is intended to take away the risk of injuring the person (people) holding, as well as providing a more stable hold for the board.  I've never had a junior hold a board with bare hands (although I have no idea how tall/muscular your son is; he may be big enough).  

You and your instructor were there, and have a better understanding of the capabilities of the people involved - but if it's a concern that it happened this way (the board holding - doing the kick cold is a separate issue) then it's something you need to take up with your instructor; there are too many variables to be able to give you a straight "this should/should not have happened".


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## jthomas1600 (Jun 4, 2011)

We use all live board holders. We don't have anyone at this point doing massive power breaks. I'm confidant had either my son or I voiced a desire to back out there would have been no problem. I also trust my instructors judgement. But in an ideal world it would have been nice to have a little prep and training for this. Perhaps this is something we will have to seek out in class.


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## dancingalone (Jun 4, 2011)

If you are breaking for an exhibition or public demonstration, then some practice is warranted.

On the other hand, sometimes the teacher may be putting a student on the spot with purpose behind it, perhaps as a test or mental obstacle to overcome.  I've yelled at my students before to just step up and make their breaks without a lot of 'air practice' or summoning up their nerve.  I want them to learn that breaking power and accuracy is something they should be able to call upon on demand without warm-ups or mental preparation.


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## granfire (Jun 4, 2011)

Holding is easy when your breaker hits the mark (and not your hands) and breaks.

We used to have breaking clinics 2 weeks before testing. The bigger people hold for the little people 

What you have to keep in mind is that you lock your elbows. We always use 2 people, a 3rd bracing them from behind if there is a power break with more than 2 boards.
Also, not looking at the breaker helps to not anticipate the impact, so you don't flinch. 

But after a few hours of holding, the fingers certainly take a beating.

I have held 3 boards before (and I am not very big)


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## buddyjames (Jun 4, 2011)

jthomas1600 said:


> I'm just kind of wondering what everyone's experience with this is. Neither my son or I have held boards before and last night the instructor called me up to break with a tornado kick... which is not my best kick and I had been sitting on my knees (I'm 44). So to pull this off cold and unexpected like this with no warm ups is going to be extremely challenging but then he asked my 15 year old son to hold the board. Yes....I kicked his hand the first time. It was the first time I felt a lot of pressure in a board breaking situation. Then I held for him doing a jumping spinning back kick. I was really worried I would somehow mess it up for him, but he pulled it off on the second attempt.
> 
> What's your experience with this?




breaking boards is stupid.... done.


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## dancingalone (Jun 4, 2011)

buddyjames said:


> breaking boards is stupid.... done.



No, it is not.  It might not be your cup of tea which is fine.  

Occasional breaking is a fine way of gauging your progression in power and technique refinement.  You can't chop someone in the neck and watch them topple over, but you sure can see if you can smash a couple of boards with the same strike.  Breaking boards is just another tool to help a martial artist get better, similar to working a heavy bag or a makiwara.


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## granfire (Jun 4, 2011)

buddyjames said:


> breaking boards is stupid.... done.



Breaking will reveal if your technique is correct. You don't tighten your hand muscles you will hurt yourself, you do some funky stuff on a kick, weird angles, etc, you won't break.

Wood is forgiving, re-breakable plastic boards are not: you don't hit the center, you won't break them, so accuracy counts. 

Also, especially when you get into breaking 2 inches and up, those are techniques you can't do on a partner without causing injury! 1 inch of pine pretty much resembles the strength of a rib, a 2 or 3 inch board closely resembles the strongest bone in the human body.


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## Balrog (Jun 4, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> No, it is not.  It might not be your cup of tea which is fine.
> 
> Occasional breaking is a fine way of gauging your progression in power and technique refinement.  You can't chop someone in the neck and watch them topple over, but you sure can see if you can smash a couple of boards with the same strike.  Breaking boards is just another tool to help a martial artist get better, similar to working a heavy bag or a makiwara.


Very well stated.  I might add that board breaking really refines focus and penetration.  People might hit a bag but man, when it comes time to break that board, you have to be on target with correct timing.

I highly recommend the Board Breaker.  We have a standing unit and a single station unit, and we love them.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2011)

buddyjames said:


> breaking boards is stupid.... done.


Not that this poster will answer (LOL) but what is stupid about breaking boards?
Sean


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## Manny (Jun 6, 2011)

Breaking board became dificult whe you try to go trough moe than one board. Breaking on inch tick board is not a big deal for the average person with the proper tech, it's not necesary to much power but going to more then two one inch board needs the holder to know how to grab them.

I use power breaks so I use more than two boards at once and some times my break falls because the holders (people) does not gab them well or are afraid and flich and this absorves part of the energy and you oly hear a very loud THUD!!!

Here you can see how even my side kick is fine the holders in some how bounce or flinch and the I cant' break the two pine boards.






Manny


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## Earl Weiss (Jun 6, 2011)

Manny said:


> Here you can see how even my side kick is fine the holders in some how bounce or flinch and the I cant' break the two pine boards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

What are the dimensions of the boards in the video? Length? (grain direction) Height (Across the grain)?

Sometimes monitors distort things, but it appears as though the board is taller than it is long. Saw a formula once, don't know it it's true, but it was something to the effect that as the length of a board approaches it's square, the force required to break it becomes greater by a logarithmic progression and even more so as it passes the square dimension. 

Example a "1x12" board is really about 11.5" wide.  Even though a 10" length is 25% wider than an 8 inch length, the force required to break the 10 inch length would be much more than a 25% increase. Once it gets longer than 11.5" it gets much harder.


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## Manny (Jun 6, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> What are the dimensions of the boards in the video? Length? (grain direction) Height (Across the grain)?
> 
> Sometimes monitors distort things, but it appears as though the board is taller than it is long. Saw a formula once, don't know it it's true, but it was something to the effect that as the length of a board approaches it's square, the force required to break it becomes greater by a logarithmic progression and even more so as it passes the square dimension.
> 
> Example a "1x12" board is really about 11.5" wide.  Even though a 10" length is 25% wider than an 8 inch length, the force required to break the 10 inch length would be much more than a 25% increase. Once it gets longer than 11.5" it gets much harder.



Upsss!!! the only thing I know those boards were 12.5" x 12.5", 1 inch thick pine wood.

Manny


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## SYDTKD (Jun 6, 2011)

Still remember last time to hold 2 boards (1" each) for my son during training, I held them a bit high (as my son could do high kick) for his spinning hook kick. I didn't expect he could do it (only 10 y.o then) but he smashed them through and the boards hit my eye. Luckily, it was a miss but then stiil hurt for a while. Truely a big lesson to learn.


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## puunui (Jun 6, 2011)

dancingalone said:


> Breaking boards is just another tool to help a martial artist get better, similar to working a heavy bag or a makiwara.



It used to be board breaking or tile breaking was a test of your makiwara training. It certainly wasn't something that children did, for example. Now that very few still do makiwara training, board breaking has evolved into a test of something else. Not bad or wrong, but just saying the purpose of breaking has changed over the years.


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## mastercole (Jun 7, 2011)

Earl Weiss said:


> What are the dimensions of the boards in the video? Length? (grain direction) Height (Across the grain)?
> 
> Sometimes monitors distort things, but it appears as though the board is taller than it is long. Saw a formula once, don't know it it's true, but it was something to the effect that as the length of a board approaches it's square, the force required to break it becomes greater by a logarithmic progression and even more so as it passes the square dimension.
> 
> Example a "1x12" board is really about 11.5" wide.  Even though a 10" length is 25% wider than an 8 inch length, the force required to break the 10 inch length would be much more than a 25% increase. Once it gets longer than 11.5" it gets much harder.



I heard it explained in a similar way and of course the type of wood is a factor.


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## Rumy73 (Jun 7, 2011)

I've come to dislike holding boards and breaking. While I have held boards with confidence for others, I can't say I've experienced the same in return. Like Manny, I've had many a holder flinch and force my to execute the technique a second or third time. When it comes to holding for children, forget about it. I've had fingers broken! No fun. Poor kids are all nerves and have more power than they can control.


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## Earl Weiss (Jun 7, 2011)

For many of the reasons stated here, if you want board breaking to be an objective test of the breaker's skill, power and determination, you need to use a mechanical holder.


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## granfire (Jun 7, 2011)

Manny said:


> Breaking board became dificult whe you try to go trough moe than one board. Breaking on inch tick board is not a big deal for the average person with the proper tech, it's not necesary to much power but going to more then two one inch board needs the holder to know how to grab them.
> 
> I use power breaks so I use more than two boards at once and some times my break falls because the holders (people) does not gab them well or are afraid and flich and this absorves part of the energy and you oly hear a very loud THUD!!!
> 
> ...




Well, the guys are not set up good:
They are standing too far apart and seem to stick their bums out. Also they look at you, thus anticipating the impact - bad!

So if the technique allows, have them nestle closte to each other right behind the board, with the same leg out front.
Have them lock the elbows and look to the side. 

You got good holders you don't need a mechanical one. (mater of fact a mechanical one scares the crap out of me: too much metal within reach!)

I held for kids, most of the time you go stiff from waiting for them to strike and break...the cheers are real when they finally break! 

And I held for the guys. But usually I was replaced when the breakers were the ones about twice my size.  


( do agree when your stack exceeds 3 boards it might become hard to find holders with big enough hands, so you might want to get a mechanical holder)

But in general I don't see the need (as long as the aim is 6 inches behind the board...not further)


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## Archtkd (Jun 7, 2011)

jthomas1600 said:


> I'm just kind of wondering what everyone's experience with this is. Neither my son or I have held boards before and last night the instructor called me up to break with a tornado kick... which is not my best kick and I had been sitting on my knees (I'm 44). So to pull this off cold and unexpected like this with no warm ups is going to be extremely challenging but then he asked my 15 year old son to hold the board. Yes....I kicked his hand the first time. It was the first time I felt a lot of pressure in a board breaking situation. Then I held for him doing a jumping spinning back kick. I was really worried I would somehow mess it up for him, but he pulled it off on the second attempt.
> 
> What's your experience with this?


 
Being asked to kick a board cold is one thing, being asked to hold cold is another. I will not allow students to hold boards for others without some simple training. There are just too many chances for unneccesary injury to the breaker and holder. I've seen someone get a bad gash from what would have been s simple side kick break. The holder shifted the position of the board when they saw the kick coming and the breaker scraped their archilles on the rough edge of the board. Other times I've also seen holders almost break their wrists because they held boards poorly.


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## jthomas1600 (Jun 7, 2011)

So I guess a couple of follow questions come to mind. _At what point in a TKD practitioners development would you expect them to start holding boards and what kind of training is usually provided?_ It seems to me a lot of it can be learned by simple observation, but of course not everyone pays attention. Also it seems to me for older teens and adults breaking a 1 inch pine board with a kick is not overly difficult so at least for those it seems holding should be pretty easy. But I can certainly see where holding for multiple boards would be a different story.


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## dancingalone (Jun 7, 2011)

jthomas1600 said:


> So I guess a couple of follow questions come to mind. _At what point in a TKD practitioners development would you expect them to start holding boards and what kind of training is usually provided?_ It seems to me a lot of it can be learned by simple observation, but of course not everyone pays attention. Also it seems to me for older teens and adults breaking a 1 inch pine board with a kick is not overly difficult so at least for those it seems holding should be pretty easy. But I can certainly see where holding for multiple boards would be a different story.




I don't think there is any set rule.  In general you want someone with big and strong enough hands to be able to hold the boards steadily.  Perhaps even more important is someone without fear so they won't flinch away and foul the breaking attempt.

I've pulled big, strong guys out of the audience before to hold boards during demonstrations.  It's generally worked, the potential problems Archtkd has described notwithstanding.


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## granfire (Jun 7, 2011)

jthomas1600 said:


> So I guess a couple of follow questions come to mind. _At what point in a TKD practitioners development would you expect them to start holding boards and what kind of training is usually provided?_ It seems to me a lot of it can be learned by simple observation, but of course not everyone pays attention. Also it seems to me for older teens and adults breaking a 1 inch pine board with a kick is not overly difficult so at least for those it seems holding should be pretty easy. But I can certainly see where holding for multiple boards would be a different story.



The qualification usually is - drum roll - being an adult, or close to it. So older juniors, around 15/16 years of age on up. rank is irrelevant. Size is more important, somewhat (not being a giant myself)

The instruction is as follows:
Stand close together, in a solid front stance (70/30 on the front leg, around 3 to for times the width of your shoulder in length)
Line up directly behind the board

Hands along the edges going with the grain (not the cross cut one), inside hand on top.

Lock elbows, tighten hands.

look away

when the person breaking asks you to adjust the board, you naturally do it and try your darndest not to move after.

To get the right height you might be required to get down on a knee.
Holding is hard though, after a couple hours the wrists, a couple of my fellow buds had arthritis and were excused from holding for most parts.

Also: we had boards ranging from 3 or 4 inches up to 12, as soon as you could put 2 hands on there we had 2 holders. Makes for a more stable grip, but even on the one handed gig, a second person would grab the holder's wrists to stabilize them

(We seldom did not have the same leg out front, depending on the technique...on an axe kick it might be better to have the outside legs out front...)


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## d1jinx (Jun 8, 2011)

buddyjames said:


> breaking boards is stupid.... done.



haha, being _*BANNED*_ after 2 posts is STUPID.... hahahahahahaha


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