# If you build it..



## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2011)

... they won&#8217;t come

I am trying to set up a training group with people who have voiced interest in Xingyiquan before and they all still want to learn it but they do not want to corporate at all as it applies to a schedule. Some are even asking if I will work on Taiji push hands with them too and I have offered multiple days and times and they all seem to have one time and only one time to do this and those times mostly do not agree and one has asked me to change my schedule to accommodate him because he really want to learn what I have learned and train it but appears that he does not want to be inconvenienced  &#8230;and I am not charging a cent and I am providing an area to train it.  

Of course It could be me&#8230; :idunno:my wife has told me multiple times I am too serious and I would make no money in MA&#8230;.my students would learn the style&#8230; but I would not have many students... and I am getting sick and tired of trying to accommodate people and this is only day 2 of this :disgust:

:shrug: I think I will take my second Xingyi sifu's advice...shut up and train..... it is jsut a bit difficult to train the 2 person stuff... oh well


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## Blindside (Aug 2, 2011)

I run a small training group, I figure as the group leader I set the times, everyone else makes it or they don't, and because this isn't a money thing, I don't have to cater to the customer.  I wouldn't be afraid to charge, if people are being picky about times go ahead and make a private lesson out of it and set a cost.


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## oaktree (Aug 2, 2011)

> I am trying to set up a training group with people who have voiced interest in Xingyiquan before and they all still want to learn it but they do not want to corporate at all as it applies to a schedule. Some are even asking if I will work on Taiji push hands with them too and I have offered multiple days and times and they all seem to have one time and only one time to do this and those times mostly do not agree and one has asked me to change my schedule to accommodate him because he really want to learn what I have learned and train it but appears that he does not want to be inconvenienced  &#8230;and I am not charging a cent and I am providing an area to train it


 Are you still hitting trees you sound like you have been hitting bushes *you are too nice!
*I have been in similar situations. As Blindside says you have to set the days and time as the leader. It sounds like the people are not that interested unless you have some odd time slot like 3am. If they can not make it on your terms but want to train on their days than you should be compersated for your time training them.  Nothing wrong with charging either. For a while I did not charge and the students would not even show up but when I started charging $30 a month they came every day and the money I got from them I used to help them with training material or seminars or something that benefit them so I did not net any profit.



> Of course It could be me&#8230; :idunno:my wife has told me multiple times I am too serious and I would make no money in MA&#8230;.my students would learn the style&#8230; but I would not have many students... and I am getting sick and tired of trying to accommodate people and this is only day 2 of this



Didn't Yang Banhou and Yang Zhaoxong beat their students up alot? You study Yang Taiji maybe this could catch on with your study group it might help the stress at least.



> I think I will take my second Xingyi sifu's advice...shut up and train..... it is jsut a bit difficult to train the 2 person stuff... oh well


Humans can only go so far that is why there will always be trees. I mean it worked for Wing Chun.:uhyeah:


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## fangjian (Aug 2, 2011)

My teacher did not charge me a cent for years of training, but 'we' are different. 'We' value it. I have been told by my seniors that if I don't charge for my time, generally, people will not value what I am teaching them. It's weird to 'us' right?.  

I always say to my students, the training and knowledge I give them is for free. What you are paying for is my 'time'.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2011)

Blindside said:


> I run a small training group, I figure as the group leader I set the times, everyone else makes it or they don't, and because this isn't a money thing, I don't have to cater to the customer. I wouldn't be afraid to charge, if people are being picky about times go ahead and make a private lesson out of it and set a cost.



I just want to keep up with what I have been taught between lessons that are currently months apart and I do not feel I have enough Knowledge of things Xingyiquan to charge for lessons. I am however going to talk to one more person tonight and after that it is going to be "These are the times, if you are interested show up"



oaktree said:


> Are you still hitting trees you sound like you have been hitting bushes you are too nice!
> I have been in similar situations. As Blindside says you have to set the days and time as the leader. It sounds like the people are not that interested unless you have some odd time slot like 3am. If they can not make it on your terms but want to train on their days than you should be compersated for your time training them. Nothing wrong with charging either. For a while I did not charge and the students would not even show up but when I started charging $30 a month they came every day and the money I got from them I used to help them with training material or seminars or something that benefit them so I did not net any profit.
> 
> Didn't Yang Banhou and Yang Zhaoxong beat their students up alot? You study Yang Taiji maybe this could catch on with your study group it might help the stress at least.
> ...


I do believe I may be being too nice, I sent off one more e-mail today to those I have been talking to about this with some more info about Xingyiquan and basically told the one (rather politely for me) that I will not be changing my schedule to accommodate anyone I will be training Xingyi and if they want to learn what I have been taught they we will discuss a time based on when I'm available.



fangjian said:


> My teacher did not charge me a cent for years of training, but 'we' are different. 'We' value it. I have been told by my seniors that if I don't charge for my time, generally, people will not value what I am teaching them. It's weird to 'us' right?.
> 
> I always say to my students, the training and knowledge I give them is for free. What you are paying for is my 'time'.



I understand what you are saying but I am not comfortable charging for my time for Xingyiquan at the moment. After I get more comfortable with the forms and sets I know and possibly learn the fighting set then maybe

There is another possibility I thought of but that would involve contacting my second sifu to see if he wants to work on the things I know that he doesn&#8217;t. And I tend to think he would want to&#8230;however I also tend to feel that he would charge me $75/hour for me to teach him what I know at my place so I am not real keen on that one


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## harlan (Aug 2, 2011)

You provide a place/space and opportunity to train. It's up to others to make the effort to get there.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2011)

I just realized the person that was asking me to change my schedule, to accommodate them, is retired and has pretty much all the time in the world


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## harlan (Aug 2, 2011)

Pretty much almost did the same thing last month. New to teaching and all. Realized I was being a sucker...had been enticed into doing something I swore I wouldn't..and that is chasing after students. Make it hard, but not too hard, to train.


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## mograph (Aug 2, 2011)

Don't bend over man -- they won't respect you. Pick a reasonable time that works for you, one that you will be able to stick to without changing. 
They will adapt to suit you.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2011)

harlan said:


> Pretty much almost did the same thing last month. New to teaching and all. Realized I was being a sucker...had been enticed into doing something I swore I wouldn't..and that is chasing after students. Make it hard, but not too hard, to train.



I taught Taijiquan years ago but stopped when I switched to a new sifu. Now I am not really looking for students as much as I am looking for training partners but if there are none, there are none. I shall have to figure something else out I guess



mograph said:


> Don't bend over man -- they won't respect you. Pick a reasonable time that works for you, one that you will be able to stick to without changing.
> 
> They will adapt to suit you.



I do belevie you are right. I have one other person to talk to tonight, if he shows up to taiji tongiht, and to be honest if he and I can reach an agreed upon time the rest can show up or stay home it does not matter much. This person is much more interested in the martial arts of it than the dance.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 2, 2011)

set your schedule, and then train.  Those that want it, will find a way to be there.  Those who do not want it, who do not show up, you do not want them anyways.


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## ilhe4e12345 (Aug 2, 2011)

my teacher experienced stuff like this. after his school closed (due to the building he was in was taken from the original owner by the government due to the guy not paying taxes, my teacehr just rented off him) he continued to train people out of his own home and a local park. At first he was making his schedule around what the students could do....and after a few months of him rearranging his schedule to help them he realized he was stressing over nothing....he let them control HIS class.....he then gathered everyone together for a class (currently theres about 10 of us that train all the time) and told us what he was doing. He set the schedule that day and said "if you cant make it, or dont want to becuase my schedule then you dont have to train with me..."

I currently train with him once a week on sundays (due to my crappy work schedule and the fact that he doesnt train on saturdays) and i make time to train with him when i can. I look ahead and see if i have any free days off during the week to train on HIS days....he really knows his stuff and i refuse to take advantage of him or any teacher especially when its something that I want to learn....my teacher is the nicest guy in the world, but he is also 100 percent serious when it comes to people that really want to "learn" the art instead of just people that show up and say "i know kung fu"

your the teacher....its your class...you make it how you want to run it....if they cant make it, their lose


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## David43515 (Aug 2, 2011)

It`s one thing to have students and something else to have training partners, so I understand your feelings about wanting to make it convenient for them too. But you`re providing the time and place as well as the instruction. One thing that never made sense to me when I was in sales was that people come _back_ for good service......but they come _at first _for scarcity. If I told a customer his custom order would take 2 weeks he`d hem and haw. If I told them it would take 6-8 weeks they`d jump at it, especially if I said the wait might go to 12 weeks as we got closer to Christmas. My point ( yeah, I really have one) is that you should just set a time that works for you. By asking them when it`s good for them you`re asking them to decide what is more important to them than training, and there are tons of things that fit the bill if training can be any time. But if training only happens at certain times they suddenly realize that class IS more important than that "Frasier" marathon they wanted to watch, and they come more often. My old boss called it the scarcity principle, economists call it supply and demand. Basically don`t flood the market with convenience, sprinkle it with quality. If nothing else you`ll be weeding out those who only had a limited interest in the first palce.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 3, 2011)

Thank you all for responding, it helped and it was the :whip: that I needed :asian:

After further discussion with the person that wanted me to change my schedule to accommodate him I figured out what he was doing. He was trying to take control, and be the guy in charge, the teacher&#8230; even though he knows no Xingyiquan. He wanted training at this time and only this time and at a location setup by him and no other location was doable and everyone could go there at that time and if my schedule would not fit that right now then we all need to wait until my schedule changes and can fit his setup&#8230;&#8230;ahhhh no. 

I also talked with the guy I really wanted to get involved in this last night and I told him the days I could make it and it looks like it will be Monday evenings. No time set yet to start but that is ok I need to work on the forms myself a bit first.

But at this point it seems like it is only one person will be there and the rest can&#8217;t make it and to be honest, I&#8217;m ok with that. Once things get going, meaning a start date I will send an e-mail to all and say this is the time, this is the place and there will be no further discussion. :supcool:

:yinyang:


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## yak sao (Aug 4, 2011)

I've been teaching CMA for a number of years now, in every setting from school gyms, church basements, rented space, parks, etc.
One common theme I've noticed, is the more options you give people, the less often they come.
Of course, there are always the die hards, who come every time you open the door, but by limiting class to a couple of times a week, I was able to keep attendance much higher.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 4, 2011)

yak sao said:


> I've been teaching CMA for a number of years now, in every setting from school gyms, church basements, rented space, parks, etc.
> One common theme I've noticed, is the more options you give people, the less often they come.
> Of course, there are always the die hards, who come every time you open the door, but by limiting class to a couple of times a week, I was able to keep attendance much higher.



and of course it limits your own time committment so that you can have time for other aspects of your life, like family, other interests, getting the laundry done, etc...


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## yak sao (Aug 4, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> and of course it limits your own time committment so that you can have time for other aspects of your life, like family, other interests, *getting the laundry done*, etc...



Oh sure, just because I do CMA, you assume I do laundry as well.

But no, you're right. My family life sufferred when I was away as much as I was, and I truly regret the time I spent teaching so much. My kids grew up too fast as it was.....

The ones that were serious back then are still with me now. the ones I was trying to accomdate are long gone. Live and learn I guess.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some ironing to do.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 4, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> and of course it limits your own time committment so that you can have time for other aspects of your life, like family, other interests, getting the laundry done, etc...





yak sao said:


> Oh sure, just because I do CMA, you assume I do laundry as well.
> 
> But no, you're right. My family life sufferred when I was away as much as I was, and I truly regret the time I spent teaching so much. My kids grew up too fast as it was.....
> 
> ...



Interesting you should say this.

The time the other person was insistent upon, that would fit his schedule, my schedule be damned, was on a day I dedicate to family&#8230; so that day was and is absolutely not going to happen as far as any training/teaching goes


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## Flying Crane (Aug 4, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Interesting you should say this.
> 
> The time the other person was insistent upon, that would fit his schedule, my schedule be damned, was on a day I dedicate to family&#8230; so that day was and is absolutely not going to happen as far as any training/teaching goes



yeah, actually one of the days that I train with my sifu is on a day that was dedicated to family as well.  But that was his schedule, when he was willing to be available, so I spend my morning with him.  My wife has been very generous in allowing me to spend a lot of time training.  In exchange, when she on occasion decides she would like to take the whole day to go and do something, I will make the exception and bow out of class for that day.  It's a fair trade, she doesn't make the request often, so when she does, I go with it.


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## harlan (Aug 4, 2011)

Just wanted to say, 'Thank you' for this particular thread, and the responses at this particular time. It has been very helpful to me!


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## Thesemindz (Aug 4, 2011)

I know the feeling. Just do your own thing. Train, have fun, tell people how great it is. If they really want to make it, they will. If they don't, you still get the training in. You still get better. And the better you get, the more people will want to train with you.

You keep doing your karate. Whether other people do or not. Don't let them decide your level of commitment. When the teacher is ready, the students will appear. You just keep getting ready.


-Rob


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