# Rick T-post your evidence...



## A.R.K.

Ok Rick, since you have decided to go the route of occasional snide remark, I'm calling you out.

In your *first ever*  post to me you called me a cheat and a liar.  Not very friendly and certainly not within the rules.  So here is your opportunity to prove what you have said...

Post your factual proof that I have cheated someone....

Post your factual proof that I have lied to someone....

You have also made the snide remark that MOST everyone here is suspicious of my posts.  A remark made in a thread NOT about me, to a poster who was not taking about ME in a subject unrelated to ME.  Explain why you felt the need to bring me into the conversation with your snide remark and explain how you KNOW what MOST people think here on MT.....

I have serious doubts about you, but have left it pretty much alone.  Even giving you the benefit of the doubt and welcoming you here.  But if your going to open your mouth in a bunch of threads that have nothing to do with me with flames I'm going to take you to task.

Put up or shut up.

[Note to everyone-I would respectfully request that this conversation be between Rick and I alone.  I'm not looking for allies and I think if indeed I'm what he says I am he be given this full opportunity to disclose ALL of his factual proof for all to see.  I'm not looking for a war, but I'll not let his snide remarks slide.  thank you.]


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## Touch Of Death

If you make a public challange to put up or shut up could you at least tell the public (or at least me) what threads you are refering to so that we can root for the good guy. common give a dog a bone here.


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## MartialArtist

You haven't cheated anyone.

But the organizations you belong to and the people who recognize your rank are questionable.  That's it, it's not about your training, etc.  It's your rank.  The people who recognize your rank are the very same people that recognize themselves, and promoting each other in a never-ending circle.  X organization promotes someone from Y organization and Z organization while Z and Y do the same.  Well, not exactly but very similiar to that.

For instance, Il Do Kwan is a questionable organization because the founder has very minimal training (even says he's been training in white brow the most).  Nobody has ever heard of Grandmaster Dong Gu Kang in Korea, and Grandmaster Bok Man Kim was not one of the original found head members of TKD.  He promotes himself through various websites and people in Korea go, huh?

Just reading the man's bios is enough.  There is no possible way he can train in all the arts, and claims the rank he has.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *Ok Rick, since you have decided to go the route of occasional snide remark, I'm calling you out.
> 
> In your first ever  post to me you called me a cheat and a liar.  Not very friendly and certainly not within the rules.  So here is your opportunity to prove what you have said...
> *




Please show the post where I called you a cheat and liar by name.

Post your proof that I said this about you exactly.
So now I call  you out.


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## MartialArtist

Then there's the KYHA, which we already discussed, and the fact that the member is in the hall of fame...  A hall of fame that promotes itself by having members of their organization in it and their buddies.

Then there's dan registry...  Hmmmm...  Okay, dan registration, what for?  So questionable people have a questionable source to fall back on if their rank was challenged?  Sorry, but no can do.  Dan registrations don't come from general sources, where they recognize people of every discipline without a any proof whatsoever that can't be forged in a minute or so.


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## paihequan

Gentlemen,

I think that the issue here is rank although it should not be. What is more important (in my opinion at least) is what type of person one is, not what rank adorns their waist

I am sure (from reading his posts) that A.R.K. is a very fine person and one who cares deeply about that which he does and his martial art.

Rick is also one who displays a genuine dedication towards his art and learning.

This, to me, is where the real value of a person is to be found.

:asian:


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## A.R.K.

Ok, Rick has 'amnesia' which is another tactic used to stall for time.  Fine.  Before I knew Rick, before I even had a conversation with him, he decides to put in his two cents in the KYHA thread in Bad Budo...



> Sounds like you are cheating people or just lying to them since the organization you belong exists for the purpose of doing what you don't believe in.



The man is a newbie, doesn't know me and decides I'm cheating people or lying to them.  KYHA is a big MA's clubhouse, nothing more or less.  I don't have a problem with clubhouses.  I do have a problem with being called a cheat and liar, SO POST YOUR PROOF!!!  If you are going to attack a fellow poster whom you don't know with strong words of accusation such as this then YOU MUST HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP.  So post it!!!

Then there are other little gems...



> I think most people are suspicious of you and your teacher because of the way you answer.



Dropped at the end of a post to DAC.  The post wasn't about me or DAC, neither was the topic of conversation.  But Rick slipped it in anyway.  There was no call for it and it certainly isn't true.  But Rick post HOW YOU KNOW MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME!!!!   You don't just run off at the mouth like this without proof, OR DO YOU???

Truth is you are a shill for Robert.  Truth is you are a puppet on his string.  Funny how you've taken up against the same people he has!  



> Maybe this is why some people can't respect what you say.





> It makes people think you are a liar if you do this.



He is another example of your newbie friendliness Rick.  Not my problem if you can't understand what I'm saying in my posts.  Ohters can and have stated so and thanked me, including the Yili guys on several occasions.  Seems you can't because Robert's in your ear?  

So again, POST YOUR PROOF THAT I AM A LIAR, A CHEAT, THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME.  You had your mind made up on  06-22-2003 05:59 AM, before I even knew you....so post your proof.  No more stall tactics!

Martial Artist,



> You haven't cheated anyone.



No duh.



> But the organizations you belong to and the people who recognize your rank are questionable.



Is that right?  Ok, list YOUR evidence.  Don't even mention KYHA, THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF MY RANKS, save my foundership in ARK.  That is not questionable, that is fact.  So post which organization is questionable that DOES recognize my ranks and list in detail your supporting proof.  NOT your opinon!  YOUR PROOF!

List the people you think are questionable with PROOF!



> That's it, it's not about your training, etc. It's your rank.



Not even Robert was dumb enough to attack my training, because it is rock solid.  A few here now personally what I have done and what I'm capable of doing.  Many know that I've trained over a thousand military, LEO, EP, Corrections and they know who many teachers were!  So your right, my training is impeccable.  Yet they can't accept my rank?  Give me a break.  This isn't about rank, it's about Robert being cut to the core that someone stood up to him and told him the way it is and what a wind bag he really was.  And you've backed a loser.

I can have great training just so long as no one recognizes it :shrug: 



> The people who recognize your rank are the very same people that recognize themselves, and promoting each other in a never-ending circle



The 'people'???  Give us NAMES and FACTS!!!!  What RANKS???



> For instance, Il Do Kwan is a questionable organization because the founder has very minimal training (even says he's been training in white brow the most).



A registered 6th Dan from the Kukkiwon is minimal training???  Seems he is pretty well known in Europe for his 'minimal' skills  



> Nobody has ever heard of Grandmaster Dong Gu Kang in Korea,



Nobody?  NOBODY??  What are you smoking man   I have a friend named Logan Lee [a native born Korean] that just finished a visit with him last month.  I've corrosponded with him.  Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  You've never seen me either....by your logic I don't exist :shrug:



> There is no possible way he can train in all the arts, and claims the rank he has.



Stop putting your limitations on other people.  I've trained in multiple arts.  Others have chosen to rank me in some of them.  You gonna tell me I can't??  I'd like to see you try  

You want to see questionable...go take a good, hard. long, honest look at your beloved Kukkiwon.  I could be a registered master with them if I CHOOSE to.  But I choose NOT to and it doesn't affect my skill ONE IOTA!!!!!  If I choose to go with another organization, or none at all it doesn't affect my skill in the least bit.  

If some people don't want to 'recognize' my 'rank' in whatever because I'm not with the organization they think I should be with.....WHO CARES!  It doesnt' affect ANYTHING!  You continually miss that point.  So let me say it one more time so there is absolutely NO misunderstanding between us; Paper is only paper.  Recognition from whatever source is a nicety NOT a necessity.  A person with the best lineage can get his **** handed to him by a person with NO lineage.  It is the skill, the heart and what the person does with both that count and it IS THE ONLY THING THAT TRULY COUNTS IN THE REAL WORLD!  The rest is games for grown ups.  

Waiting for answers......


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## Disco

When somebody takes/makes statements out of context just to forward their own position. 

It was stated that Il Do Kwan (Head) was minimally trained. I just reviewed the web site and it looks like the man has plenty of background. Well just deal with him being 6th Dan Kukkiwon. I guess that holds no relevance. He stated that he only trained in several other styles (which the position taken is based on). There was no rank claimed other than the TaeKwonDo rank, all from Korea. 

In another thread, this same somebody was (very politely I may add) corrected for even more erroneous statements. 

To use a colloquial expression from the old wild west. "Speaks with forked tongue". Such tactics bring the user's credibility into question.


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## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *Ok, Rick has 'amnesia' which is another tactic used to stall for time.  Fine.  Before I knew Rick, before I even had a conversation with him, he decides to put in his two cents in the KYHA thread in Bad Budo...
> 
> 
> 
> The man is a newbie, doesn't know me and decides I'm cheating people or lying to them.  KYHA is a big MA's clubhouse, nothing more or less.  I don't have a problem with clubhouses.  I do have a problem with being called a cheat and liar, SO POST YOUR PROOF!!!  If you are going to attack a fellow poster whom you don't know with strong words of accusation such as this then YOU MUST HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP.  So post it!!!
> 
> Then there are other little gems...
> 
> 
> 
> Dropped at the end of a post to DAC.  The post wasn't about me or DAC, neither was the topic of conversation.  But Rick slipped it in anyway.  There was no call for it and it certainly isn't true.  But Rick post HOW YOU KNOW MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME!!!!   You don't just run off at the mouth like this without proof, OR DO YOU???
> 
> Truth is you are a shill for Robert.  Truth is you are a puppet on his string.  Funny how you've taken up against the same people he has!
> 
> 
> 
> He is another example of your newbie friendliness Rick.  Not my problem if you can't understand what I'm saying in my posts.  Ohters can and have stated so and thanked me, including the Yili guys on several occasions.  Seems you can't because Robert's in your ear?
> 
> So again, POST YOUR PROOF THAT I AM A LIAR, A CHEAT, THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SUSPICIOUS OF ME.  You had your mind made up on  06-22-2003 05:59 AM, before I even knew you....so post your proof.  No more stall tactics!
> 
> Martial Artist,
> 
> 
> 
> No duh.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that right?  Ok, list YOUR evidence.  Don't even mention KYHA, THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF MY RANKS, save my foundership in ARK.  That is not questionable, that is fact.  So post which organization is questionable that DOES recognize my ranks and list in detail your supporting proof.  NOT your opinon!  YOUR PROOF!
> 
> List the people you think are questionable with PROOF!
> 
> 
> 
> Not even Robert was dumb enough to attack my training, because it is rock solid.  A few here now personally what I have done and what I'm capable of doing.  Many know that I've trained over a thousand military, LEO, EP, Corrections and they know who many teachers were!  So your right, my training is impeccable.  Yet they can't accept my rank?  Give me a break.  This isn't about rank, it's about Robert being cut to the core that someone stood up to him and told him the way it is and what a wind bag he really was.  And you've backed a loser.
> 
> I can have great training just so long as no one recognizes it :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> The 'people'???  Give us NAMES and FACTS!!!!  What RANKS???
> 
> 
> 
> A registered 6th Dan from the Kukkiwon is minimal training???  Seems he is pretty well known in Europe for his 'minimal' skills
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody?  NOBODY??  What are you smoking man   I have a friend named Logan Lee [a native born Korean] that just finished a visit with him last month.  I've corrosponded with him.  Just because you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist.  You've never seen me either....by your logic I don't exist :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop putting your limitations on other people.  I've trained in multiple arts.  Others have chosen to rank me in some of them.  You gonna tell me I can't??  I'd like to see you try
> 
> You want to see questionable...go take a good, hard. long, honest look at your beloved Kukkiwon.  I could be a registered master with them if I CHOOSE to.  But I choose NOT to and it doesn't affect my skill ONE IOTA!!!!!  If I choose to go with another organization, or none at all it doesn't affect my skill in the least bit.
> 
> If some people don't want to 'recognize' my 'rank' in whatever because I'm not with the organization they think I should be with.....WHO CARES!  It doesnt' affect ANYTHING!  You continually miss that point.  So let me say it one more time so there is absolutely NO misunderstanding between us; Paper is only paper.  Recognition from whatever source is a nicety NOT a necessity.  A person with the best lineage can get his **** handed to him by a person with NO lineage.  It is the skill, the heart and what the person does with both that count and it IS THE ONLY THING THAT TRULY COUNTS IN THE REAL WORLD!  The rest is games for grown ups.
> 
> Waiting for answers...... *


Here are a couple of organizations in your links page.  Just look what the entire organizations stand for...

http://www.usadr.iwarp.com/index.html - on rank
http://www.ildokwan.us/ - not on rank
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/4937/kya.html - as you said, they don't recognize your rank

And who else exactly recognizes your rank?

Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan.  Kinda like how DAC had a 6th dan, right?  There are limitations, it's just physically impossible to get that in the amount of time, but I guess you don't understand that.

And no, nobody in Korea has ever heard of him.  There are quite a few people who can name the founders of TKD, but he is not one of them.  They can name a lot of the hapkido guys, and can even name a lot of the Japanese and Okinawan guys although the older generation does not like to hear of it.  You're using a guy named Logan Lee as proof that the old grandmaster exists.  I don't doubt he exists, but I doubt what he gives out.

 You can be a master from Kukkiwon?  Prove it, back up your claim.  And post the certificate right here.  And yes, I can tell if it's a real certificate or not, not that handwritten certificate that Dac had that said "Yoo" which really insn't a word by itself under the name section or something and looked like it was written by a foreigner at his first attempt at writing in hangul.

Nobody attacks your training because you don't give any information out on your training.  But I personally don't doubt that you are a bad martial artist, but you can go on claiming that your training is rock solid and all that.


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## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by Disco _
> *When somebody takes/makes statements out of context just to forward their own position.
> 
> It was stated that Il Do Kwan (Head) was minimally trained. I just reviewed the web site and it looks like the man has plenty of background. Well just deal with him being 6th Dan Kukkiwon. I guess that holds no relevance. He stated that he only trained in several other styles (which the position taken is based on). There was no rank claimed other than the TaeKwonDo rank, all from Korea.
> 
> In another thread, this same somebody was (very politely I may add) corrected for even more erroneous statements.
> 
> To use a colloquial expression from the old wild west. "Speaks with forked tongue". Such tactics bring the user's credibility into question. *


:rofl: 

Yeah, I was corrected erroneously...  Actually, I was corrected on one topic that wasn't really relevent to the topic.  But you can go on doing whatever floats your boat.

And you are an instructor in ARK's organization, so yeah, I'll take your word for it over everyone else.


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## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by paihequan _
> *Gentlemen,
> 
> I think that the issue here is rank although it should not be. What is more important (in my opinion at least) is what type of person one is, not what rank adorns their waist
> 
> I am sure (from reading his posts) that A.R.K. is a very fine person and one who cares deeply about that which he does and his martial art.
> 
> Rick is also one who displays a genuine dedication towards his art and learning.
> 
> This, to me, is where the real value of a person is to be found.
> 
> :asian: *


If you make a claim, then back it up.  If you are unable, that gives a lot on your character.

I remember a long time ago ARK made a claim in a Japanese system and RSK called him out.  ARK has still been unable to answer from what I hear.


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## Disco

You were erroneously corrected on a subject that wasen't even germain to the thread. 

So the person who corrected you is either not telling the truth or is just not knowledgeable.  Did you inform this person of his error. I'm sure being a Kukkiwon Master Instructor, he will undoubtedly be appriciaitive of having this oversite of knowledge corrected.

The subject in question, that was not relevant (your words), was introduced / posted by you. If it had no business with the subject being discussed, why post it. This is not the first time I have observed this action.  

What about what I originally posted in referance to your insightful exclusion of listed background training of the head of the Il do kwan. Is he not a 6th Kukkiwon? You focused in on a minor style he trained in and based your whole discourse on that.

Yes I am attached to ARK. I have tried to stay somewhat neutral throughout ALL of the proceedings. The man can stand for himself. I'm still not attempting to take sides, I'm only debating things that you said / posted and they had nothing to do with ARK directly. I asked you about someone else (Il do kwan).
And if you need to know, I am Kukkiwon Certified 4th Dan #05037041.


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## tshadowchaser

Gentelmen Please keep it friendly and polite.

Also read:  http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8708

Because this argument is going from thread to thread this is not your first warning Please play nice


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## Rick Tsubota

ARK, 

Nice try but I still don see where I said  "ARK is a liar" or "ArK is a cheat".

I just wrote "sounds like", I think it's different


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## A.R.K.

Martial Artist,



> Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan.



What guy are you talking about?  Your post has me confused the way you've written it.



> I remember a long time ago ARK made a claim in a Japanese system and RSK called him out. ARK has still been unable to answer from what I hear



Really?  That is news to me!  I've never claimed rank in a Japanese system.  What is the name of this alleged system?



> You can be a master from Kukkiwon?



Yes, I have a 4th Dan in TKD which if memory serves...is a master rating in Kukkiwon.  Trained by a Kukkiwon master.  I chose not to go Kukkiwon, but I certainly could have.  What would you like to see, the school cert with the signig authority?  At some point I may ask WIF to recognize them within their organization officially.


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## A.R.K.

Rick,

Now your playing symantics.   Either you are saying that or you are not...which is it.

Post your proof that most people are suspicious of my posts.  In fact, I have received kind words and thanks for what I have posted by many.  Including as I said some of the Yili folks.  So back up your words.....


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *Nice try but I still don see where I said  "ARK is a liar" or "ArK is a cheat".
> 
> I just wrote "sounds like", I think it's different *



How?


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## DAC..florida

> _Originally posted by MartialArtist _
> *Look, that guy does not have a 6th dan.  Kinda like how DAC had a 6th dan, right?
> 
> And yes, I can tell if it's a real certificate or not, not that handwritten certificate that Dac had that said "Yoo" which really insn't a word by itself under the name section or something and looked like it was written by a foreigner at his first attempt at writing in hangul.
> 
> *




First off if you have a problem with somthing in my credentials, WHY NOT ASK ME? Why do you continue to use me as a tool to try to get at ARK. I thought I had already cleared up the fact that I was misled and lied to about that rank, and I no longer claim it. 


Martial Artist,

When I came to you and asked you to take a look at one of my certificates your answers made me question the instructor wich I had recieved it from (heres my story) in this section. I do appreciate what you did for me, but if youll remember I told you before I e-mailed that cert. that I didnt want my personal info.. all over this board, you agreed that you would respect my privacy so why are you now posting my misfortune on this board you have lost any respect you had from me and cannot be trusted, people can say what they want about RSK as much as him and I didnt see eye to eye and also him and ARK at least he respected my privacy on this same issue. That was a favor I asked of you and I hoped that would be a man of your word, I GUESS I WAS WRONG IN TRUSTING YOU!


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## Kingston

This thread is getting stupid......

To A.R.K who cares what these jokers say on the internet, are you seriously going to call out EVERY person who has a problem with you?

To others who cares what there rank is...have any of you tried there system? Know anyone who tried there system? They created a new system for gods sake they can be 24th dan ultimate master if he wants.....its "his" (and other ARK dudes) system.

What is this thread acomplishing.......is ARK a good person? Who the F*ck cares.....did DAC get a mcdojo 6th dan.....yes.....BUT does he still claim it as his rank? NO so WHO CARES. Why is DAC in this thread anyway..........ITS NOT ABOUT HIM. or A.R.K (the system)

its about ARK (the dude) getting angry over Rich voicing his opinion (no matter how uneducated) on a medium thats MENT FOR IT.

ARK needs to chill this thread needs to be locked, Rich need to go to the school (or perhaps talk with an experienced student of the school) BEFORE he talks ****.

people are getting things mixed up.....shady dan ranks in ARK? (thats another problem all together...ranking for any art) does it really matter now.... Now that hes teaching ( or has settled with a system name) all that matters is HIS ability to TEACH, nothing more.......so find out if hes a good teacher....if so, good, if not....well how bad is it? Of course once again dont forget the most important part of this post WHO CARES and coming in at a close second IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!


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## A.R.K.

Either he is hoping your misfortune somehow reflects badly on me or he hasn't gotten the fact that THAT instructor from your past was years before you and I meet.  

I'm still waiting for several answers from him....


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## Kingston

uck, bad spelling and gramar are gunna be the end of me.


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## A.R.K.

Kingston, that was hilarious :rofl: 

Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with the A.R.K. system or my ability or training.  

MA thinks I've claimed rank in a Japanese system....and I never have.  He thinks if your not registered Kukkiwon your nothing.  I feel ability in the real world is the priority consideration, everything else is simply window dressing.

Rick has spouted off because he's Robert's buddy and feels the need to.  Now he's backpeddling for time.  If he would simply knock off his petty and snide remarks, and even offer an appropriate apology all would be well.  He choose to make the comments he has about someone he doesn't know, now he can either back it up or back it down.  

So I've simply asked for the facts.  And haven't gotten squat from either.  I think the thread has maintained a civil tone so far, and this is the proper forum for a discussion of this nature.

I'm still waiting for answers.....

[And I should add, since you asked, that I don't really care what either of them think.  It affects nothing in actuality.  But based on principle alone, if you run your mouth you should be able to back it up.  Their responses thus far reflect how far that goes...]


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## Captain Harlock

Do you people ever shut up about this stuff?

I think I saw it on a signature here somewhere.

Shut up and Train. 

Have any of you ever taken a moment to consider the public display of stupidity and childishness you have almost all been putting on for these last few months?

The lot of you look like bloody children. If I were to be considering training with any of you or your instructors, this non-stop bullcrap you are all running off at the keyboard with would tend to imply some serious issues with either yourselves, or the quality of your training. 

In any case, regardless of your ranks, skills or other qualifications, it is quite obvious that the lesson of humility has not yet been learned.

kodomo


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## Kingston

> _Originally posted by Captain Harlock _
> *Do you people ever shut up about this stuff?
> 
> I think I saw it on a signature here somewhere.
> 
> Shut up and Train.
> 
> Have any of you ever taken a moment to consider the public display of stupidity and childishness you have almost all been putting on for these last few months?
> 
> The lot of you look like bloody children. If I were to be considering training with any of you or your instructors, this non-stop bullcrap you are all running off at the keyboard with would tend to imply some serious issues with either yourselves, or the quality of your training.
> 
> In any case, regardless of your ranks, skills or other qualifications, it is quite obvious that the lesson of humility has not yet been learned.
> 
> kodomo  *



Common dude, dont steal my thunder!!

dont read to much into posts.....its not like you can take any of what you say back...once it out there its out there. Perhaps rich learned of his mistake 2 hours before this thread came up....he is still "forced" (more like asked) to defend his statements (ARK could change his mind in the futur as well)......Perhaps I'll look back on this thread one day and think to myself "damn im handsom" but most likely I'll just notice the flaws, things i should have said, shouldn't have said, insights wich i have no idea how there where concieved and that make no sence to me......perhaps theres a little child in all of us trying to....err hold on a sec, what was I talking about?


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *
> Please show the post where I called you a cheat and liar by name.
> 
> Post your proof that I said this about you exactly.
> So now I call you out
> 
> *




Ok, I am really confused.

Rick Tsubota makes a statement.

A.R.K. Asks for proof.

Rick Tsubota changes the topic and asks for proof back.

Answering a question with a question.

Very Poor Arguing skills, in my opinion.





> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *ARK,
> 
> Nice try but I still don see where I said  "ARK is a liar" or "ArK is a cheat".
> 
> I just wrote "sounds like", I think it's different *



Hmm You think it is different. I am still confused, you *Think * it is different.

To me it *"sounds like"* you are not willing to admit you have argued yourself into a corner.


I know nothing of you (Rick Tsubota), nor do I know anything of Anything about A.R.K. I care to know nothing of either of you. Yet, I find it really hard to listne to you both babble on and on and on and on ..., until I am so sick and tierd of this. This makes me wonder how amny people are not psoting for fear of being attacked, or given the run around.

If you have a question ask it.

If you have an answer give it.

Do not make statements and then say it sounds like or that is not what I truly meant, unless you also put in an apology for the misunderstanding. A simple apology for a misunderstanding goes a long way in making a point. Yet, if you are forever afraid to admit that you have made a mistake then it seems like you are an arrogant person who throws stones and then gets up set when someone returns the stone back to you.

IN MY opinion, make your statement be prepared to back it up or please do not. If someone is not real, time will tell. Yes, it is painful to some, especially their students. You cannot change people's minds without proof. And even then only if they want to change.

Just my opinion.

Play nice or people will not be happy in the long run
:asian:


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## Rick Tsubota

I agree this is a stupid  and childish thread.

ARK, 

Show me the exact post I said "ARK is a cheat" or "ARK is a liar".

You can't because I didn't.


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *
> Do not make statements and then say it sounds like or that is not what I truly meant,  *




In english you can mean a specific person or can mean people in general.
I was using the general version.

If I want to call someone a liar and cheat I use their name.


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## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *I agree this is a stupid  and childish thread.
> 
> ARK,
> 
> Show me the exact post I said "ARK is a cheat" or "ARK is a liar".
> 
> You can't because I didn't. *




Rick,

This link has some posts from you.

Some mention Liars, to DAC...Florida.

I cannot find the Cheat comment.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...659&perpage=15&highlight=tsubota&pagenumber=3


Today I score it 1 and 1 for each of you.

Oh yeah I also score it a complete loss for everyone else.

I also take personal exception to your comments about moderators.

Name the people you have a problem with or do not use the generic term. This is a pesonal request.

I would hate to be one of those you did not like and not know it.

:asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Ya'know....

I think folks should take a look here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=8720

Personally, I've got alot of patience, and I'm starting to run out.

Thats the friendly warning....



CH - If you make it to the MT get together, I owe you a drink.



If all this crap had happened a year ago, I probably would have taken the board down...sigh.


----------



## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *
> I also take personal exception to your comments about moderators.
> 
> Name the people you have a problem with or do not use the generic term. This is a pesonal request.*



I will do as I like unitl it is against the policy here.





> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *
> I would hate to be one of those you did not like and not know it.
> 
> :asian: *



So far I don't think I like your attitude.
you are very argumentative for a moderator.


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *In english you can mean a specific person or can mean people in general.
> I was using the general version.
> 
> If I want to call someone a liar and cheat I use their name. *



Rick,


See the previous post and link where you explicitly do not use the person's name. Moderators and Ex-Moderators.

Still sounds like you are recanting or changing your meaning, or avoiding something.

Do you have something to hide?

Oh Yeah, I will freely admit I know nothing about Martial Arts in particular Korean and Japanese. Yet, I will still meet you on the matts or the streets with  empty hands or stick or knife or any combination of the above. You see some people and organizations reconize my rank. Others do not. Fine by me, I care not, except when it becomes personal. So then I will ask them a few questions to see if it is personal. 


OH Yes, you do nto like my attitude as a moderator. Does this mean that I am not allowed a personal opinion now, just like you?

Thank you for your comments I guess I cannot express myself to you or anyone anymore.

Sir, I do not like you attitude, either live with what you say, prove what others have said or not said. (* It is really hard to prove a negative *) Or pick you fights / arguements well.


Until you name the Moderators and Ex-Moderators you have a problem with, I will have to put you down as a person who does not follwo their own rules. Note: Your quote above. You say you will name them


----------



## paihequan

> Rick Tsubota Wrote:
> 
> "I will do as I like unitl (sic) it is against the policy here"



Rick, 

With all due respect, that kind of attitude is not going to take you far with the people here on Martial Talk.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8442&perpage=15&pagenumber=1



> Rick Tsubota:
> 
> In Okinawa we try to treat all fellow students with respect and like everybody same.



Try adhering to this and you may find that people will be more willing to engage in discussion with you.

:asian:


----------



## Rich Parsons

I still contend that some have won battles, yet everyone has lost the war.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Yaknow.

This gets real old fastlike, last year old.

Frankly, were growing very tired of it.

Person A has an issue with Person B.  What used to happen here is, they would take the differences off the board after the first warning.  Now, what happens is, we get huge essays from all involved on why 1 person is FOS, and the other a PITA.  

Then, we get 5 people who threaten to leave if Person C is allowed to remain.

Then we get DEFG ganging up on H, who is shortly backed by I,J, K and L.

In the meantime, M-Z have stopped posting in discust.

E then PMs the mods and wants to know why we havent done anything.
J emails about #3 who hasnt visited here in 6 months after being browbeaten into a coma by #12.  B PMs n says great job guys.  C PMs and says Nice bunch of frauds.  H PMs everytime he loses a point, which is shortly followed by A doing the same.

In the mean time, many folks think all those involved are full of #2.


Now, switch sides, double up on the BS, claims, counter claims, misdirections and other assorted crap.

Yall got that?


In the mean time, new folks are popping in, seeing the romper-roomers and leaving.  Existing members are dropping out too.  We have gotten so many PMs and emails about a group of approximately 12 folks, from both sides of the argument, that I am rapidly running out of patience.


Now, is it at all possible that you can just move on, and drop this, or do we space the whole lot?

It makes sence to just waste 12, to save 1500 now doesn't it?

You folks decide.:soapbox:


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *I still contend that some have won battles, yet everyone has lost the war.*



Agreed.

This place is principally for the discussion of martial _arts_--not martial _artists_.


----------



## paihequan

> Arnisador:
> 
> This place is principally for the discussion of martial arts--not martial artists.



Thank you. Well said! This is why I came to the Martial Talk forum in the first place ... to discuss the martial arts not the personalities within.

:asian:


----------



## Seig

and I was waiting to see how long it was going to take off their pants and whip out their rulers.....


----------



## Rick Tsubota

I get this in the pm mail box today from a moderator:

"We prefer to have people discuss the martial arts, not martial artists."


So I wonder why there was one article started about me and another started about ryushikan, and it was started by the moderator!!!

So I gues it's OK if I start a thread about someone?
I doubt it.

Seems like martial talk has what they call double standards.


----------



## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> * Yet, I will still meet you on the matts or the streets with  empty hands or stick or knife or any combination of the above.  *




So are you challenging me to a fight?
Is this how moderators act?


----------



## Disco

I know I may be stepping out of place here. Don't mean to offend anyone. 

But I feel things have gone way to far with words and challenges.
That is not what were, myself included, all about as guests of Martial Talk. In that regard, please accept my apology for actions taken and implied. As Martial Arts Practicioners, we should be rise and be above that. Again Sir; my apology...........................

Respectfull
Disco:asian:


----------



## A.R.K.

Alright folks, THAT is quite enough.  It was my understanding that this was the appropriate forum in which to air evidence of dispute.  I felt Rick had taken up Robert's vendetta in his absence and made accusation/snide remarks against me.  Rather than let it drag on for the next three months all over the board, I felt it better to localize it here.  I asked that this thread by between Rick and I alone in post one.

Rick choose the route of accusation/snide remark, I asked him to back it up with proof.  Proof that I cheat people [or sounds like  ], proof that I lie, proof that MOST people are suspicious etc.  For indeed if he is correct YOU all need to know about it.  I need to be exposed and shunned.  However, if he is talking out the side of his mouth because Robert is whispering in his ear then THAT needs to be known and his method needs to be exposed.  

My hope was that if put to task he would either anti up or back off, perhaps even apologize.  Then the matter would be done with.  Rick however, is going to take the route of his predessesor and play word games, delaying tactics, attacking others etc.  I feel Rick has been exposed for what he is, a troll.  He has admitted his distain for this board, for us, for the mods.  He flames people before they even know who he is, and now he won't back it up.  I had hoped for a more honorable and peaceful solution...thats not gonna happen I think we will all agree.  However, hopefully many will see Rick now for what he is.

Many here know my uphill struggle here...but I'm still here.  I try to contribute in the best possible fashion, and will continue.  I am done with this Rick.  If he chooses to again drop snide remarks against me it will be as it has been from day one...without provication.  And he will continue to expose his agenda, and that is enough for me.  I appreciate those who have understood the reason for this thread and allowed it to continue.  Kaith please feel free to close it, it has served it's purpose albeit in the opposite direction which I hoped for.

Peace to the rest of us.

:asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

There is a misunderstanding here.

*What is "Bad Budo"? Bad Budo covers the range of physical and mental abuse, fraudulent teachers and questionable claims. When martial arts/artists turn bad.*

That is the description of this forum.

It is not the 'put up or shut up' area.

While I understand the reasons why, it doesnt make it right.

I'm going to put this very simply-
If you have a problem of a personal nature with a person, take it to email or pm.

If you have a question on skills, professional resume, or of a martial nature, post it here.

If someone claims a particular rank, a stint of military service, has embeleshed something, is teaching something claimed to be X but really has nothing to do with X, is abusive, is a predator, has been convicted, etc, then this is the place to air it out the most.  If you are going to question something, be very detailed in your question.  Vague and obscure 1 liners aint good enough.

The he-said, she-said stuff just floods this board with garbage.  The petty fueds are a detraction, and to be honest, a blemish that we, and I intend to eliminate.

Before anyone says 'pot-kettle-black' or whatever, yeah, I know i'm not a total innocent here. My goal is to work on improving the future, not picking the scabs of the past however.


Now a message to a couple of folks, you know who you are:
I will say this one -last- time.  *Staff here are entitled to have their own opinions and voice them.*  This seems to be true on every other board I visit.  So why do a few people seem to fly off the handle whenever a mod/admin here does the same?  When they do so and violate our rules, they are dealt with.  *Mods and admins have been suspended in the past.*  If you have a personal problem with a mod, take it private, same as with any other member.  *If you have a professional problem with a staff member, you come to me.  If you have a problem with me, you goto another admin.  If you have no respect for any of us, then, I'll be perfectly blunt here, get off our board.  *

I and many people here are getting pretty sick and tired of a prevalent attitude that simply because this board is here, that some somehow have every right to use it and abuse it as they feel like.  I'm sorry, but if you have no respect for me, my property, or my staff, I do not want you here.  Go mooch off Rec.Martial-Arts where you can say what you want however you want.

Based on some of these posts, I would hate to see how you act at a seminar.  I can picture it now.... 3 would be arguing about how a wristlock is applied, 2 reading the wall certs and debating on authentisity, 1 would be quizing the instructor about his background, 3 bitching about lack of skills, and the whole time, the host is standing there with his jaw on the ground as 2 of the students yell at him about why hasn't it started yet and who's this goof, and the guest instructor wondering why he botherd to even show up.  I won't even get into the expected abandoned water bottles, powerbar wrappers, and that no one holds a door for anyone else, with it being allowed to close int he face of the guest instructor, who of course is struggling to get all his gear out to his car, while the 'students' file past empty handed, becuase 'hes just a guy'.

I see no respect, no courtacy, no polite disagreement, and certainly no humility.  I see puffed chests, holyer-than-thou and know-it-all attitudes.  I for one am getting pretty disgusted, and those who do know me, know just how far I have to be pushed to lose it big time.

I have no problem with the member who only posts a few jokes, or in the locker room.  I have no problem with the person with 3 posts a year who mostly reads and just learns. I have a problem with those who are disrupting thigns so bad, that we have to lock threads, and issue warnings by the bookload.  Most forums would just boot folks at this point, but, we like to give everyone a few chances.

Let me be totallt terse and blunt here:
*
If you can't follow the rules - get out.
If you have no respect for me, my staff or our board - get out
If you can't behave in an adult manner, and are over the age of 16 - get out
If you can't stop picking at old scabs - get out
If you can't behave in a positive manner - get out.
*

Am I perfectly clear here?
The correct answer is -yes sir. or no sir.
I don't need an essay on whos booboos are hurt, or why they thought whatever. 

Any questions?
Go reread the rules, policies, FAQs  and procedures of this board, then if they still exist, post them in the support forum and a staff member will assist you shortly.

:soapbox:


----------



## Ginsu

Yes Sir....


----------



## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Rick,
> 
> This link has some posts from you.
> 
> Some mention Liars, to DAC...Florida.
> 
> I cannot find the Cheat comment.
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...659&perpage=15&highlight=tsubota&pagenumber=3
> 
> 
> Today I score it 1 and 1 for each of you.
> 
> Oh yeah I also score it a complete loss for everyone else.
> 
> I also take personal exception to your comments about moderators.
> 
> Name the people you have a problem with or do not use the generic term. This is a pesonal request.
> 
> I would hate to be one of those you did not like and not know it.
> 
> :asian: *


Wow, keeping score for something that can't be scored


----------



## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by Kingston _
> *This thread is getting stupid......
> 
> To A.R.K who cares what these jokers say on the internet, are you seriously going to call out EVERY person who has a problem with you?
> 
> To others who cares what there rank is...have any of you tried there system? Know anyone who tried there system? They created a new system for gods sake they can be 24th dan ultimate master if he wants.....its "his" (and other ARK dudes) system.
> 
> What is this thread acomplishing.......is ARK a good person? Who the F*ck cares.....did DAC get a mcdojo 6th dan.....yes.....BUT does he still claim it as his rank? NO so WHO CARES. Why is DAC in this thread anyway..........ITS NOT ABOUT HIM. or A.R.K (the system)
> 
> its about ARK (the dude) getting angry over Rich voicing his opinion (no matter how uneducated) on a medium thats MENT FOR IT.
> 
> ARK needs to chill this thread needs to be locked, Rich need to go to the school (or perhaps talk with an experienced student of the school) BEFORE he talks ****.
> 
> people are getting things mixed up.....shady dan ranks in ARK? (thats another problem all together...ranking for any art) does it really matter now.... Now that hes teaching ( or has settled with a system name) all that matters is HIS ability to TEACH, nothing more.......so find out if hes a good teacher....if so, good, if not....well how bad is it? Of course once again dont forget the most important part of this post WHO CARES and coming in at a close second IT DOESN'T MATTER!!! *


I stated many times his 10th dan is his rank because it's his system and his way of doing things.

But the incident as I remember it was that ARK claimed a rank in another system or something like that.


----------



## MartialArtist

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *Kingston, that was hilarious :rofl:
> 
> Just to clarify, it has nothing to do with the A.R.K. system or my ability or training.
> 
> MA thinks I've claimed rank in a Japanese system....and I never have.  He thinks if your not registered Kukkiwon your nothing.  I feel ability in the real world is the priority consideration, everything else is simply window dressing.
> 
> Rick has spouted off because he's Robert's buddy and feels the need to.  Now he's backpeddling for time.  If he would simply knock off his petty and snide remarks, and even offer an appropriate apology all would be well.  He choose to make the comments he has about someone he doesn't know, now he can either back it up or back it down.
> 
> So I've simply asked for the facts.  And haven't gotten squat from either.  I think the thread has maintained a civil tone so far, and this is the proper forum for a discussion of this nature.
> 
> I'm still waiting for answers.....
> 
> [And I should add, since you asked, that I don't really care what either of them think.  It affects nothing in actuality.  But based on principle alone, if you run your mouth you should be able to back it up.  Their responses thus far reflect how far that goes...] *



 Wow, way to change what I say completely around

I said that if you're in TKD, then to have people recognize your rank, it HAS to be Kukkiwon.  WTF, ITF, it don't matter.  All WTF and ITF schools that I know of, and most KTA and ATA schools get their ranks from Kukkiwon.  If it's so easy to get, then what's the problem?  The benefits are that if you relocate, then you have some proof that you are what you claim.  Why would you want a Kukkiwon rank if you're in wing chun?  Doesn't make sense now, does it.  It just makes you look more foolish.

I asked Robert for verification if you have made any such claim on a Japanese rank.


----------



## MartialArtist

And BTW, DAC is here because ARK is his instructor.  ARK is also Disco's instructor.  So it's nothing shocking.  Rick is here to defend RSK, his teacher.  The Yili guys participated in many threads together.  It's not a new concept.


----------



## Shuri-te

In an earlier post Paihequan said:



> Rank, rank. rank! What about forgetting about rank and simply getting on with enjoying the training and learning process?



and in response Rick Tsubota said:



> I read things like this but it is always coming from people that say they have some kind of rank.



Rick,

When you can find a moment, perhaps on a break from calling MT posters liars and fakes, would you please help us to better understand your response to Paihequan's reasonable post above. Just why would say that Paiheqaun is "say[ing] [he] has some kind of rank."

Please provide us with your source of information. 

Thank you.


----------



## DAC..florida

> _Originally posted by MartialArtist _
> *And BTW, DAC is here because ARK is his instructor.  ARK is also Disco's instructor.  So it's nothing shocking.  Rick is here to defend RSK, his teacher.  The Yili guys participated in many threads together.  It's not a new concept. *



Correction,

I am not here because I am ARK'S student, I am here of my own free will, to share opinions and facts or maybe even learn somthing. No one has asked me to defend them but when I see someone stating lies and opinions that are not true about my style/instructor I will at least state the truth for all to read. 

Martial artist,

How come you responded to every other post that was adressed to you except mine? Its on either page 2 or 3 in case you missed it.


----------



## Disco

quote: Originally posted by Kodanjaclay 
<<WTF or ITF, it's most likely you get your ranks from Kukkiwon.
>>

This too is an error. The ITF is not even based in the ROK. Nor do they practice the same style of martial art. 

The WTF is the international liaison to the IOC that each country's NGB is a member of. The WTF does not issue rank, nor can any individual be a member of the WTF. Countries are members of the WTF, which propagates TKD as dictated by the KKW. This is facilitated to the various member nations via their NGB. KKW is what is commonly called Olympic Taekwondo. Although ITF TKD only originated in 1955 with the founding of the OhDoKwan or Chung Han TKD, it is considered "traditional" TKD. Two totally different animals. Actually, the ITF and WTF can be considered rivals. For more information on the US NGB, www.ustu.org. 


Why do you insist that ALL respected / recognized TKD MUST come from the Kukkiwon. The above statement refutes that. All the Organizations you referenced, are just that - Organizations. They issue their own certifications and have their own training criteria. Do you totally disregard this information as false? The only thing the WTF / Kukkiwon has a strangle hold on is that they are the governing force of TKD for the Olympics. For anybody to participate, at least from this country, they have to be a registered BB with the Kukkiwon. That does not make the Kukkiwon the end all. It just means they have more political clout.
If and I repeat If the AAU can get the leverage over the USTU in this country, you can probably kiss the Kukkiwon goodbye for having any major influence in this country. But that's all about big money and politics. 

As far as ARK being my Instructor. Because the A.R.K. system is proprietary and I chose to align / join, I became subordinate to the head of the system. My choice, because I liked what I saw and the people I was dealing with. I know that means nothing to other's, but with 35 years within the arts, it means something to me. I've had my share of dealing with undesireables. I'm sure I'm not alone in that respect. So yes, for organizational structure he would be considered my instructor. As I stated before, I have attempted to stay as neutral as possible. I think a review of everything I have posted would attest to that. To further expound, the KYHA debate. If you noticed, I said very little in regards to that situation. I did post that I had done some investigation and found limited info. I did not take any position (pro or con), but I did inform all that I was not a member of KYHA. Point being, I'm my own person and make my own choices. I don't blindly follow just for the sake of being accepted. My whole function / purpose within the ARK family is to be a royal pain in the butt. I have self appointed myself as the practical overseer. ARK has given examples of when and how he has used what he knows. That probably has not sat well with some and even sounded braggadocio. If ARK has a flaw as a person it would be that he is somewhat over enthusiastic in trying to share and help people with the arts. That will and has caused problems. Working were he does, physical contact is almost a daily occurence. If someone has never worked in a correctional facility / Jail, they would have no real understanding. I realize all this rambling on is just my viewpoint and most likely won't influence anyone. I'm not trying too. Just offering insight and information.


----------



## Captain Harlock

The field of combat was abandoned on June 16th, yet the dogs bark still.

_
The intelligent
win arguments
and lose.
The foolish
lose arguments
and sulk.
The wise
refuse to argue
and gain.
The person close to Tao
does not argue,
because she has nothing to say.
_

To truely see the way, your mind must remain open.

Too many are locked into the closedmind.  To step back is to lose face, and the face is everything, is it not?

Who cares what is said, when you know the truth in your own heart?  Or, are your hearts so hungry for validation, that the barking of the dogs is preferable to the light of the way?

You have lost the way.

kodomo no muchi


----------



## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *Is this how moderators act? *



Am I the only one tired of hearing this cheap tactic?


----------



## paihequan

> Rick Tsubota wrote:
> 
> I read things like this but it is always coming from people that say they have some kind of rank.



Sir, with all due respect when did I claim rank in this discussion? When did I even elude to myself and rank?

:asian:


----------



## A.R.K.

Well I thought this thread would have been locked already at my request.  However, since it is not, perhaps so good might yet come of it.

Bob

You know it was not my intention to improperly use this forum.  In fact I thought this the perfect forum in which to either expose myself  or vidicate myself.  Didn't work out as I had planned.  I'm sorry that it has come to an individual questioning moderation.  It was not intended and it is unfair for all of you.  Perhaps certain things are more clearly seen now of the agenda of the individual in question though.

Martial Artist,

Lets have a discussion....



> I stated many times his 10th dan is his rank because it's his system and his way of doing things.



As I have repeatedly stated that I do not claim/wear 10th Dan despite having founded a discipline.  Many Grandmasters of various organizations [listed on my website] have honored me with this rank.  But I feel it is an honorary title, and one I do not wish to wear.  

I have developed a real distain for 'rank'.  However I have been 'encouraged' by my students, assistants and peers to 'wear' an 8th for our discipline.  I have consented, though still very rarely actually wear any rank.  To me it is for paperwork purposes only.

"But the incident as I remember it was that ARK claimed a rank in another system or something like that."

You stated earlier that I claimed rank in a Japanese discipline, this is incorrect.  I once claimed rank in a Chinese discipline.  Rank confered by various people throughout the years, lastly Richard Pelligrino [RIP].  An off-shoot discipline that had no formal organizational affiliation to which I am aware.  I have discussed this in detail time and again.  If you have any further questions then please feel free to email me.

The Shuri discipline that I hold rank in is derived from Okinawan sources, my former instructor is a fellow Deputy and is local.  It is currently in a state of refurbishment, of which I have no part in.  This to has been recently discussed.  If you have any further questions please feel free to email me.

I have achieved 4th Dan in TKD [Han Moo Kwan].  My instructor is a Kukkiwon certified Master as well as WIF.  You know who he is, if you have any questions I'm sure he would be more than happy to chat with you.  I have no desire to submit my credential to the Kukkiwon at this time.  I don't teach this discipline in and of itself and really have no desire to go higher in it.  WIF does recognize/certify it, and that is quite enough for me.  In other words I don't see the point of spending $400 for Kukkiwon certs that I really have no need for.  The fact that I could if I choose to is enough.  If you don't see paper side of my training as acceptable, then I encourage you to disregard my rank in TKD.  However, the training side came from a Kukkiwon Master, so the training in and of itself is sound.  And you know very well, to me that is the main consideration.  All else is merely words on this or that paper.

I have a 2nd Dan in Hapkido, see above for the same explaination.

I have a 7th Dan [that I consider honorary] presented to me by Grandmaster Yuri Kostrov, head of World Agni Kempo.

If you would like to see any of this documentation then email me.  My scanner has taken a dive, but I will figure something out.

If you have any questions that I have not aswered here then email me and we can discuss it.



:asian: :asian:


----------



## Kirk

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Am I the only one tired of hearing this cheap tactic? *



Not only no, but HELL NO


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by MartialArtist _
> *Wow, keeping score for something that can't be scored  *




MArtialArtist,

Thank you for making my point even more clear.

How absurb the whole thing has become.

No one will let it go until they are declared the winner.

There is no way it will happen.

Thank you for adding to my point.


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *So are you challenging me to a fight?
> Is this how moderators act? *




Sir,

If this was a challenge I would have said I challenge you to a fight.

Please do not read into or put words there that are not there.

My Point is that, no one will get 100% agreement that they are legit until they prove it. It was an example.

Yet I think, you have missed my point.

I apologize for not making it more clear and simpler. I do strive to communicate to as many people as possible.

I think I Have your number though. First you have a problem with people who think you have said something, yet you do it yourself.

Next you state that if you have a problem with someone, you will say so, yet you do not say which moderators are the problem.

Please do tell us is it one or is it all?

You insist others answer your questions yet you do not answer mine?  HMMMMMM? Still making me wonder what you have to hide. 

Do you wish to change the subject again? 


Quick Look over there? Anyone for some misdirection?

Just answer my question(s) and you will go far in my book.

So. once again, I am trying to communicate to you. Which Moderators are the problem and list your issues and concerns. If you do not wish to list them here then PM and e-mail me them and I will make sure they are discussed. If you insist upon just name calling and drying for help and insisting that you are being mistreated, then maybe I'll recommend a new forum just for the kindergarten members can learn how to play well with others. (* Yes read this as an insult, unless you step up and deliver you complaints. You insist there is a dual system here. I have been asking you questions yet you will not answer me. This leads me and others to believe you do not have a foot to stand on. *)


I do hope to hear from you. Maybe we can resolve some of these issues with the moderators.

Thank You
:asian:


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Am I the only one tired of hearing this cheap tactic? *



Please see my previous post(s).

I believe he read more into it then was there.

I am tired of this ploy of misdirection and complaing to Mom and Dad is wrong or to Dad that Mom is Wrong or to Grand MA that Grand Pa is Wrong.

I have asked for him to lsit his grievences, here or to me privately.
Hopefully Rick Tsubota will reply.

:asian:


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## Captain Harlock

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *MArtialArtist,
> 
> Thank you for making my point even more clear.
> 
> How absurb the whole thing has become.
> 
> No one will let it go until they are declared the winner.
> 
> There is no way it will happen.
> 
> Thank you for adding to my point. *



Congratulations Mr. Parsons, You understand.

It is too bad that others do not.
But what is one to do with children?

Mr. Hubbard does not understand fully what is at work here, I think. Save the drink sir, you will need it.

Mr. Schultz and Mr. Tsubota: I do hope you both find your answers.  You may find that they are like a diet of only celery. Bitter and unfulfilling.

To those who have only fanned the 'flames', enjoy your moment in the spotlight.  At some point in time, you will be dust, and the last word will belong to someone else. Let us hope that it is a more positive one that that which applies here.

In a battle such as this, we are all diminished. 

Sayonara
:asian:


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## paihequan

Captain Harlock:

Thank you for putting into words what many on this board are thinking.

With respect :asian:


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Shuri-te _
> *
> Rick,
> 
> When you can find a moment, perhaps on a break from calling MT posters liars and fakes,  *




trying to start flame war I see.


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Am I the only one tired of hearing this cheap tactic? *




martial talk seems to have 2 sets of rules.
one for moderators and one for members.

a moderator seems to wnat to challenge me overt the internet  to a fight and nothing is said or done.

I think that kind of action is stupid


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *Please see my previous post(s).
> 
> I believe he read more into it then was there.
> 
> I am tired of this ploy of misdirection and complaing to Mom and Dad is wrong or to Dad that Mom is Wrong or to Grand MA that Grand Pa is Wrong.
> 
> I have asked for him to lsit his grievences, here or to me privately.
> Hopefully Rick Tsubota will reply.
> 
> :asian: *




The main moderator I dislike is you.
You act like an arrogant ***.


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## Master of Blades

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *martial talk seems to have 2 sets of rules.
> one for moderators and one for members.
> 
> a moderator seems to wnat to challenge me overt the internet  to a fight and nothing is said or done.
> 
> I think that kind of action is stupid *



I see someone has stated that everyone round here is acting like kids blah blah.....so as a kid, allow me to join in  

Firstly, there isnt two sets of rules, and if there is, it is because of people like you. You cannot say that we all have one set of rules and can voice our opinion, but then complain whenever a moderator or admin voices their opinion. You cant say that another member can go around asking questions to another member, but then complain as soon as a member of staff do the same. If you want one set of rules then you have to allow this and stop whining.  

Secondly A.R.K asked you a question, you asked him a question back. Others ask you a question, you ask them one back or just dont answer. I think THAT kind of action is stupid. Im 16 and know how to have a discussion better then that! 

And if you notice Rich didnt actually CHALLENGE you so to speak, he was using it in a differant context. If you wish to see a real challenge I suggest you go to the FMA forum and see Moromoro challenging Tim Hartman to a fight. All Rich was doing was proving his point. 

And While Im at it, Does RSK know your posting all this? Did RSK give you all your info or is it your own opinion? 

And one more thing, are you willing to admit that you are strongly biased because RSK is your teacher and friend?

:asian:


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## Rick Tsubota

> _Originally posted by Master of Blades _
> *I see someone has stated that everyone round here is acting like kids blah blah.....so as a kid, allow me to join in
> 
> Firstly, there isnt two sets of rules, and if there is, it is because of people like you. You cannot say that we all have one set of rules and can voice our opinion, but then complain whenever a moderator or admin voices their opinion. You cant say that another member can go around asking questions to another member, but then complain as soon as a member of staff do the same. If you want one set of rules then you have to allow this and stop whining.
> 
> Secondly A.R.K asked you a question, you asked him a question back. Others ask you a question, you ask them one back or just dont answer. I think THAT kind of action is stupid. Im 16 and know how to have a discussion better then that!
> 
> And if you notice Rich didnt actually CHALLENGE you so to speak, he was using it in a differant context. If you wish to see a real challenge I suggest you go to the FMA forum and see Moromoro challenging Tim Hartman to a fight. All Rich was doing was proving his point.
> 
> And While Im at it, Does RSK know your posting all this? Did RSK give you all your info or is it your own opinion?
> 
> And one more thing, are you willing to admit that you are strongly biased because RSK is your teacher and friend?
> 
> :asian: *



I see 2 sets of rules.
A moderator makes a poll about some member and includes nasty comments about that member, he lets other members make nasty comments about the person in the poll too, then another member makes a article about me then I get a message from a moderator  that say martial talk is about martial arts and not martial artists. and I should remember this rule.
Is this the rule about respect other members all the moderators always preach about?
I don't think so. This is a double standard.

ARK claims I called him a liar and cheat.
I asked him to post evidence where I exactly called him by name a liar and a cheat.
He has not shown me that yet, he cannot becasue I did not.
All he has shown where I said if "you"-meaning someone in general-that is all.

I read ARKs posts about his rank and groups he belongs to. I don't really care if what he belongs to an asian based group, I don't care if he has 200 10th degree black belts.
I do think it is dishonest for people to say they don't care about rank and then give someone rank.
That doesn't make sense to me.

If someone has a serious question they can email me because I wont look at this childish thread anymore.


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## Master of Blades

> _Originally posted by Rick Tsubota _
> *I see 2 sets of rules.
> A moderator makes a poll about some member, then another member makes a articicle about me then I get a message from a moderator  that say martial talk is about martial arts and not martial artists. and I should remember this rule.
> 
> ARK claims I called him a liar and cheat.
> I asked him to post where I exactly called him by name a liar and a cheat.
> He has not shown me that yet.
> He has shown where I said if you-meaning someone in general-that is all.
> 
> I read ARKs posts about his rank and groups he belongs to. I don't really care if what he belongs to an asian based group, I don't care if he has 200 10th degree black belts.
> I do think it is dishonest for people to say they don't care about rank and then give someone rank.
> That doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> 
> Sorry but I think this board has too many imature little babies on it to have any real discussion on martial arts. *



I believe if you check the first page THIS qoute is where A.R.K believes you called him a liar and a cheat. 



> Sounds like you are cheating people or just lying to them since the organization you belong exists for the purpose of doing what you don't believe in.



Now the key words in there is *YOU*. I dont know about America or Japan but here in England if you use you while talking to someone anything you say is towards them unless otherwise stated. By using you, you ARE calling him a liar and a cheat whether you meant to or not. We could go on for hours about the English language and the use of YOU and so on but if you look in nearly all cases YOU is talking directly to one person. And you cant really say that YOU meant someone in general because you then go on to talk about A.R.Ks organisation blah blah blah. 

I dont know for certain but I think A.R.K probably got a PM for making this whole topic. But I feel your comment on it being dishonest to hand out rank if you dont believe in it is not the right way to say it. Hypocritical yes, Dishonest....no. Dishonest would be handing out ranks every other month and charging $500.00 per test. But then again the fact that he doesnt care about rank doesnt really matter because some people do. Some students want and need rank to get along, it gives them a level to aspire too, makes them work harder. Some need rank for something to look back on and prove to themselves in old age that they used to be able to do that. For him to hand out rank, after claiming that he doesnt care about it, is more for the students rather then him. When he came to this site he wasnt boasting that he had a 100th Dan in I-kick-***-do, he was giving info into his backround, as most people do when they appear on this site. I'm pretty sure that unless asked he doesnt go around telling everyone his rank in every martial art. 

And I feel that this site is one of the biggest Martial Arts ones on the net and I have learnt a hell of a lot about a lot of things. There isnt a lot of babys on this site, just a lot of people who dont like being attacked because of revealing their backround. 

btw, I do have to give you kudos, your handling this a lot better then Rsk :asian:


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## Bob Hubbard

Very simple here kids.

But, I'll recap some points:

- RSK is gone.  Stop swinging at his ghost. 

- The mean nasty moderator who did the evil poll was me, and it was with what I thought was implied ok. My comments about that are in that thread, and if you are too lazy to go read them there, then suffer ignorence.

- Rich's comments weren't a threat. 

- The last word belongs to he who can lock this thread.  Today, he is me.


I hope you kids have gotten it our of your system.  Take the personal issues off the board.  Next time we see it, we're thining the herd. If you don't like it here, don't like us, well, don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.  

To those who tried to interject some food for thought and calming voices - Thank you.

And to those too immature to let it drop - Perhaps some time should be spent in considering if the words you have used are what you would like as your record in life.


Good day.


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