# Shorinjin Ryu Saito Ninjitsu



## arnisador (Nov 7, 2003)

I learned about this in another thread:
http://tfam.com/programs/index.htm



> This is a rare 1000 year old secret art taught only by the Saito family of Fukushima, Japan. Several styles of T'ai Jutsu (empty hand arts) are taught.



Students must start with Tai Chi? Has anyone any experience with this program? Honestly, from the web site it looks somewhat suspect to me.


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## pknox (Nov 7, 2003)

I know it was recently mentioned in this current thread:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11464&perpage=15&pagenumber=2


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 7, 2003)

other thn my inner feeling I know nothing other than what I have seen in the link however my gut tells me that this may not be as real as it claims. something just seems out of place.
not saying it is not for real just saying i dont belive everything i read


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## heretic888 (Nov 8, 2003)

The "history" of the art is questionable, to say the least. The fact that Mr. Saito also willingly chooses to use the spelling "ninjitsu" while completely admitting it is an incorrect usage is also very odd. The misuse of the term "Shorinjin" is also dubious.

In my opinion (and I may be wrong of course), it seems the system is using the words of other popular martial arts ("Shorinji" and "ninjutsu") to aritificially lump them onto their art to make it more appealable. The "trappings" of the art don't strike me as very "Japanese", either.

Of course, this is not to say that it is an ineffective system. Only, that its historical claims are exceedingly dubious.

Laterz.


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## Bujingodai (Nov 8, 2003)

Steve McGovern is an obvious authority on this art. He is quite active on my board. Any experience I have with him is he is a very intelligent and well spoken martial artist who I imagine would discuss it.

The board is protected but if you want to come talk. Register at 
http://unv.aimoo.com


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## ShaolinBoxer (Jun 26, 2008)

As with most stories, it's origin or seed was true. I live in Hawaii, and a friend of mine just got me into a class that teaches this art. I was stunned to learn that they practiced for the Tengu sword. A uncommon blade that is 2/3 handle, and 1/3 blade. I don't think many ppl will get the opportunity to learn this art, as it's only been recently released as far as the martial arts history. 

The confusion in the style was not a mistake. The art carries characteristics of Chinese and Japanese swordsmanship, hence the circular motions. 

And as far as needing to learn tai chi, you don't. It would be a great addition though. 
~ First the Fist Form, then the Staff Form, and then the Sword Form. -some old asian proverb

Bagua would be the form you would want to learn. It's relative to Tai Chi.


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## Kreth (Jun 26, 2008)

ShaolinBoxer said:


> I was stunned to learn that they practiced for the Tengu sword. A uncommon blade that is 2/3 handle, and 1/3 blade.


And 3/3 invented by them...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jun 26, 2008)

Kreth said:


> And 3/3 invented by them...


 
Yes, exactly! :erg:


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 26, 2008)

Well Shorinjin is incorrect for one.
Ninjitsu is incorrect for two.

Sei is incorrect for 4th mountain. (listed on site)

History is full of it. It is doubtful of someone using the term Shorinjin in old Japan to refer to mountain dwellers.

In the history we bounce from 1,000 year old Japanese secret Ninjutsu sorry Ninjitsu to Hawaiian lore of Karatedo than to Judo to Shinkeido to anything else Japanese!!

The Tengu sword IMO looks pretty unpractical.

I find it odd to be raised by a Japanese master and not know any Japanese but use cryptic Japanese on your site and even Japanese that looks like it was put together by an online translator.

This is just my view of this and unlike Saito I have been to Japan.


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## Hayseed (Jun 27, 2008)

JadecloudAlchemist said:
			
		

> Well Shorinjin is incorrect for one.
> Ninjitsu is incorrect for two.
> 
> Sei is incorrect for 4th mountain. (listed on site)
> ...


 
Burn.(Nicely done!)


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah and to mention that per their website www.got-spirit.org they also teach something they refer to as "bloodline ninjitsu" but yet you don't have to be in their bloodline to learn....Ha ha.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jun 27, 2008)

When you don't have a legit martial art you use legit martial arts as your basis the more legit martial arts the more credit you loose such as this for example:



Jujutsu,Bo,Tengu,Pasai
Judo,Fushido,Fudoshin
Shinkeido,Uishiba(I think he meant Ueshiba)Aikido
Yawara,Shorinjin Karate,Tsuyoi Karatedo
Yoshinkan Aikido,Boken(I think he meant Bokken or Bokuto)
Iaido,Capturing-Shin(beats me),mushin,Samurai swordmanship
Hawaiian Lua,Ancient ritual dance,Healing arts
Blood line to Ninjutsu sorry I mean Ninjitsu
and I thought Phelps was bad with inaccurate site!!


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## j5smoothe (Jun 27, 2008)

hi does anyone know who Christa Jacobson is she claims lineage to tomo ryu (one of the koga families) her website is budoryuninjutsu.com. i know that the last known koga ninja died in 1966 in car crash. i also know that there were around 50+ families that were associated with the koga lineage. she has a lineage chart on her website i wondering if there was anyway to tell if it is legit. i've tried looking through the other forums to see if there was any mention of her, but i did not see any. thanks for your help in advance.


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## Cryozombie (Jun 28, 2008)

*Nevermind*


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Jun 29, 2008)

yeah


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## blood shadow (Jul 6, 2008)

the only people that would teach koga ryu are kinda all dead.


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## Cryozombie (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm a Zombie, can I teach Koga-ryu then?


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Jul 7, 2008)

Cryozombie said:


> I'm a Zombie, can I teach Koga-ryu then?


 
Sure why not.....you're not a real Zombie so then it wouldn't be real Koga either...LOL


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## newtothe dark (Jul 8, 2008)

But maybe he is "zombie-ish" and that would nake it ninja ish wouldn't it


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## Kreth (Jul 8, 2008)

Unfortunately this thread is zombie-ish. It just refuses to stay dead... :idunno:


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## Bujingodai (Jul 20, 2008)

I actually trained with Steve McGovern of this last indie Tai Kai I attended.
Our schools spent the weekend together in PA. Interesting guy.


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## blood shadow (Jul 26, 2008)

zombie ryu maybe?


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## Jon-Bhoy (Jul 26, 2008)

> I actually trained with Steve McGovern of this last indie Tai Kai I attended.
> Our schools spent the weekend together in PA. Interesting guy.



Hello. What's an "indie" Tai Kai?


Thanks.


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## Jon-Bhoy (Jul 30, 2008)

Id really like to know..


...please?


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 30, 2008)

Jon-Bhoy said:


> Id really like to know..
> 
> 
> ...please?



I believe he means independent Ninjitsu practitioners. (notice the spelling Ninjitsu)  These would be groups of people without an affiliation to one of the major Kan's ie. Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan. (Takamatsu Lineage)  Dave get's around checks out different training. (good for him 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Jul 30, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I believe he means independent Ninjitsu practitioners. (notice the spelling Ninjitsu) These would be groups of people without an affiliation to one of the major Kan's ie. Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan. (Takamatsu Lineage) Dave get's around checks out different training. (good for him
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Wow a TaiKai where a bunch of indepentants come together and train....I can't imagine how that taikai goes being that they all do their own thing..


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## Jon-Bhoy (Jul 30, 2008)

> I believe he means independent Ninjitsu practitioners. (notice the spelling Ninjitsu)



Interesting. Thanks.


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## Bujingodai (Jul 31, 2008)

Nah we use the Ninjutsu spelling for the most part. Actually alot of Aiki guys are there as well

on youtube just lookup JBK Tai Kai for the last few years worth.
Each year we get a little different crowd. 2 years ago 19 different styles were there.

Actually 2 of us including me do have a background in the Kans, he genbukan and me bujinkan. However no, no longer I am afraid.
A Jinenkan fellow showed up this year to watch for a bit. Nice guy. Chad I believe his name is. Seemed very observant. He came back later on that nite but I hit the hay and didn't chat with him which sucked.

Most years, it spawns must past the normal arts. We have had some BJJ and Kempo etc come. It is more a meeting of independent martial arts schools than just Ninjutsu

Yes Brian is right I do get around alot to train with the groups to see if the claims are true or what is wrote about them is true.
All across the US and Canada, it has met me alot of interesting people.

Steve McGovern though now not with the Saito Ryu anylonger since the family heir closed it out. Was a very intense man, very clean practitioner. Highly into the kyusho and Aiki. I saw the tengu to that has been spoken of. I see it being a blend of hanbojutsu and kenjutsu, really interesting and I can see the application.
I am not a hsitory buff so I stayed off that plank and more focused on the useage.

This year was another good one, I enjoyed it alot. Vid will be on youtube soon I would guess

so if you wish, you can see the vids and ask about any of the schools. You'd be suprised that some of them are the ones getting bashed alot, that actually look pretty good.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Aug 9, 2008)

Well having good martial arts skills doesn't have anything to do with what you are claiming to be. I could be a good hunter and know my way around the woods and firearms but that doesn't make me a soldier. I'm sure alot of these guys are great martial artists and more power to them. But you state that the Saito heir close out his system but yet they still operate in Scottsdale, AZ www.got-spirit.org


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## Bujingodai (Aug 11, 2008)

Sure enough see your opinion on what to or not call it. That argument has been done to death so I won't perpetuate it. I am not one for the false lineage claims nor do I support those who do. There have been as many indie that I have not bothered with due to the grand stories of lore.

Anyway, that is interesting. OK well I do know that Steve McGovern was "let go" I guess you can say. It likely seems now that they just want to keep it in the family. Not sure, I don't delve into his politics. I met him the one seminar, seemed like a pretty interesting guy. His Aiki is very good and he is really learned with kyusho. Very confident guy. 

Really the vast majority of what goes on there these days is not Ninjutsu or what you'd call that. Hasnt been billed that for years. We've had BJJ, Arnis, Aikibudo, Kempo etc etc. It's an open martial arts festival. I've been going every year for 5 years now, have a great time there too.
But thats me.


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## Obi Wan Shinobi (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmmm interesting...Well then train hard and good luck with your training.


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