# Why Do I Train With Sword?



## Calm Intention (Jun 2, 2006)

Life is very confusing,  so much stress,  the need to escape present day real circumstances that violate our sense of ethic and morality.
Do we pick this weapon of the past(along with its tradition),  to escape and fantasize,  or are we dealing with reality as it is?  
We all know the chances of someone attacking with a sword or bo(or jo), are so limtied/rare to happen,,  so why do we do what we do?

I say its simply discipline,  and rejection of the modern worlds dis-association with the consequence of 'damage/death/results...at a distance',  which happens with modern day weaponry.

The SwordsMan/Woman... puts all directly up front,  and doesn't hide behind some M.O.A.B.,  or  precision guided tactical weapon(like our chicken hawks in the White House, etc).

We understand the essence of things....we confront death.....we are the warrior!!
** except me,,   because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jun 2, 2006)

Someone once said: "Sword is personal weapon. When slicing through a man, you get immediate feedback."

Its true. When using a blade, be it sword or knife, you must touch your enemy. Firearms allow you to kill from a distance, detached from those you strike down.

Some train, seeking the answer to the riddle of steel. A form of moving meditation, they seek the perfection of movement, timing and thought.

Some train, to preserve the traditions of the past, as knowledge lost is only regained after much pain is shared.

Some train, seeking answers to modern problems, through examining ancient answers. It is true, you are unlikely to be attacked by a mounted knight. A machete swinging madman however, does happen, with significant regularity today.

But, regardless of why one trains, for one to train well, one must respect and understand the tools they use.

Any moron can swing a stick, wave a sharpened bit of metal, or fire an arrow.
It takes training, practice, and more training for that to become stick or sword fighting, or archery.

Hanging out in your backyard, mimicking the motions one finds in a book, or a video, or a movie is not training. 
It is playing. Nothing more. Often less.



> ** except me,, because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.


No.  Your continued purposeful disregard for the educated advice and concern of those members of this forum, who already are that which you aspire to be, experienced, has set you and those like you at odds with those who have gone before.

They would like to welcome you to the circle.
They would love to see you become that which you profess to desire.
But their have little patience for play, as they take their training seriously.
They train, under experienced teachers, with learned partners, with a respect for the weapons and tools that they use, and the people they train with.
Your continued disrespect, for the art, for yourself, for your weapon, is what sets you and those on similar paths apart from the serious.

Anyone can throw a punch.
That does not make them a boxer.
Anyone can wear a belt.
That does not make them a master.
Anyone can swing a sword like object around.
That does not make them a swordsman, or the object a sword.


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## Grenadier (Jun 2, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> Life is very confusing, so much stress, the need to escape present day real circumstances that violate our sense of ethic and morality.


 
Of course.  If we all lived our lives in constant, unending stress without a break, then our life expectancy numbers would be drastically cut down.  



> We all know the chances of someone attacking with a sword or bo(or jo), are so limtied/rare to happen,, so why do we do what we do?


 
Most people here aren't going to get into fights on a regular basis, and some are going to be fortunate enough, that they will rarely, if ever, have to use their knowledge of the martial arts in combat.  

That being said, they'll still train in the martial arts.  Why?  Because it's something they enjoy, I'm guessing, and also, the other benefits come into play.  For example, they have both better physical conditioning levels and mental discipline, because the martial arts gives both aspects a good workout.  

Also, what one learns in kobudo training can be translated over to his empty hand training, and vice versa.  




> The SwordsMan/Woman... puts all directly up front, and doesn't hide behind some M.O.A.B., or precision guided tactical weapon(like our chicken hawks in the White House, etc).


 
This isn't really a good example, since you're basically trying to compare apples and oranges.  A commander's role, regardless of era, is to issue commands.  He will generally not be the one fighting up close and personal.  It's no different, giving the order to send cavalry and infanty wielding long spears and swords, to charge at the enemy, than it is to issue a command to drop a laser-guided bomb.  

If you want to make a comparison, you should probably think about comparing today's soldier to the soldier of the middle-ages.  Even then, do they really get detached from the killing?  Most likely not, since their own comrades are going to die as well, and they have to see it up front.  



> ** except me,, because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.


 
Nobody has "voted you out" of this forum.  All I see is that people are giving you some very good advice, and that everyone has urged you to start some sort of formal training regimen.  We don't do this because we like you or dislike you; it's because your safety is at stake (swinging around stainless steel swords = potential for disaster, regardless of contact), and because you aren't doing yourself any real services by trying to self-train in an art (any martial art for that matter) that really does require experienced instruction.  

Furthermore, it requires an open mind.  I've seen this in empty hand training as well, where someone comes in with a pre-conceived notion of what Karate was all about after watching movies from "Samaurai Sunday" Kung Fu flicks, and tried to emulate what they saw there, thinking it was correct.  

I could give a talented person in the world a fencing foil, but has no fencing experience (other than self-training), against someone who has trained in fencing for a few years, and can predict the outcome with a good bit of certainty, if they were to duel.  The difference is, that the trained fighter is going to know what is right, and what is wrong, having had confirmation from an experienced teacher, while the inexperienced self-trained fellow is going to constantly be experimenting, not knowing whether his fundamentals are correct.  

The trained fencer's "house" is built on a solid concrete foundation.  The self-trained fencer's "house" is built on a foundation that is made out of materials that he randomly selected.  Guess which house is going to survive?  


CI, 

I'll simply repeat what I said earlier: You have a most wonderful opportunity to study JSA at a good school.  I'd strongly suggest that you at least *try* it before you dismiss it.  Go there, and train with an open mind, and see if you like it.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 2, 2006)

Edmund BlackAdder said:
			
		

> *Someone once said: "Sword is personal weapon. When slicing through a man, you get immediate feedback*."
> 
> *Its true. When using a blade, be it sword or knife, you must touch your enemy. Firearms allow you to kill from a distance, detached from those you strike down*.
> 
> ...


 
Very well said EB,  especially liked the part i put the !! around.

I had motive with this post,  was very anxious to see some input....especially as relates to modern day warfare and its politics-  and these 'pushers'  behind these wars who remain so distant from the battle.

I feel the Aikido person, and Sword person,  have possibly the most unique set of characteristics which define them,  and along with that,  I value what I would expect to be a very intelligent view/insight to todays modern problems of politics and warfare.

also:
I never claimed to be a 'swordsman'.
??I don't have 'an art' per se,  so I can't be disrespecting anything at the moment.


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## monkey (Jun 2, 2006)

I use it to guide my thoughts of points of cuts.Threw a rare type of Tai chi like I was tought.You can gather the chi fast & the sword is like a devineing rod & lets your thought not only be seen but, with your eyes closed,feeling the wind & practice cut on hay raps.  This Helps be the tool it was intened.An exstention of you & your thoughts.


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 2, 2006)

I believe it was Rommel who said it best.  Paraphrasing here... "The winner of a bayonet fight is the last man with a bullet in his gun."


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## monkey (Jun 2, 2006)

I have to agree with that but,the point of question was Why train,I didnt see any possable insight to the ok-Im in the street & have a sword & he hold a gun.Now if I do state a rare & unherd of fight sceen It was Bruce Lees sword vs nunchaks.Clearly the sword is longer & no possable entry for the short wepon.If I have to refer to guns-then Ill say this.Its better to know how to use a sword & not need it then to have it & not know how to use it.Same with guns or other wepons,But, you have to admit most states dont allow gun carring,how ever to break a stick-or small item that may represent a stick/sword it the specialty of the philippinos.


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## Charles Mahan (Jun 2, 2006)

I don't know anyone in the traditional JSA world who trains for practical modern self defense.  That's just not the point any longer.


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## Don Roley (Jun 2, 2006)

Edmund BlackAdder said:
			
		

> Hanging out in your backyard, mimicking the motions one finds in a book, or a video, or a movie is not training.
> It is playing. Nothing more. Often less.
> 
> 
> ...



Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083

When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.


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## Lisa (Jun 2, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.
> 
> http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083
> 
> When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.



I honestly can not find better words to explain myself then "HOLY CRAP" 

The man they are speaking of full admitted he had no formal training and look what happened.

Anyone that "plays" without training is a few bricks short of a load, IMO


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## Swordlady (Jun 3, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.
> 
> http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083
> 
> When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.


Don Rice has been referenced to time and again in this forum, but it certainly doesn't hurt to remind newcomers about his accident.

To answer the original question of this thread, I train with a sword because of its rich history and tradition.  I enjoy studying a sword art that has been passed down for hundreds of years, and learning how to _properly_ use a sword.

It is a far cry from the "duels" my brothers and I had when we were children.  Although those "duels" were done with toy lightsabers (in case you haven't noticed, I *am* quite the "Star Wars" geek  ), it was my first exposure to something remotely sword-related.  From that point on, I became quite fascinated with long pointy blades, and wanted to learn how to use one _for real_.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 3, 2006)

Lisa said:
			
		

> I honestly can not find better words to explain myself then "HOLY CRAP"
> 
> The man they are speaking of full admitted he had no formal training and look what happened.
> 
> Anyone that "plays" without training is a few bricks short of a load, IMO


 
Anyone(trained too),  can suffer an accident.
This thread created by me,  keeps reverting back to the earlier threads which I deliberately jumped off because the members here couldn't truly read my comments,  and kept slamming me.
Now,  I have EB, who understands this threads intent, and the others just want to be antagonists by diverting the import here.

I don't see any thread similar to this one here,  so let us stay on track please,  and try(as hard as that is for some of you),  to focus yourselves and either comment on the threads purpose,  or leave please--- stop yanking on me thru some 2nd hand/3rd hand reference.

Or, just comment to EB and leave me out(if you can).


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## Don Roley (Jun 3, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> Anyone(trained too),  can suffer an accident.



That is like saying that people who wear seatbelts can die in car wrecks as well. Or that people who don't smoke five packs of cigarettes a day sometime die of cancer.

Here is some harsh truth, unless you make the effort to go to a teacher to learn, you *can't* say that you _train_ with a sword. You only play with it. I have trained with a teacher and you have not. I have trained on my own just as you have. Thus there is no experience that you have that I do not, but there are things I can speak of from experience that you can not.

Steel is a harsh discipline. If you can't bother to go to training because people on an internet forum don't nod in acceptance to what you say, then you just do not have the proper spirit. You can write on the internet all you want about how serious, manly, etc you are- but do those of us with greater experience and knowledge it just sounds like what we hear from children.

You started this thread asking why *we* train with the sword. What do you mean "we" Kemosabe? I go to a teacher and have faults I was not aware of having pointed out to me. You can't say that. You can't say you train with a sword. You play with one. As long as you do not try to pass yourself off as a student of the sword, there really will not be a problem. But when you try to pass yourself off as someone who can stand besides those that made the effort to put aside their ego and train under a real teacher, then don't be surprised when people react as they are.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 3, 2006)

Don?
Are you deliberately obtuse?
Please re-read my comments,  because I've done my best to answer about everything you question and comment on;;; this is really getting aggravating- is that your intent?


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## Don Roley (Jun 3, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> Don?
> Are you deliberately obtuse?
> Please re-read my comments,  because I've done my best to answer about everything you question and comment on;;; this is really getting aggravating- is that your intent?



No. I understand what you are saying. And I know what you really mean. You don't seem to understand that when you talk about how you _train_ with a sword it is not true. You started a thread about why people train with a sword. Since you do not go to a teacher and thus do not train with a sword, it is strange that you include yourself.

If you adopted the proper attitude for someone in your position (a person who plays with a sword and can't be bothered to go to train under a teacher) then there would be a lot less trouble around here.

If you don't like people telling you the truth, why keep trying to press the point? Those that know far more than you are not going to be converted to your way of thinking by constant posts by you.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 3, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> No. I understand what you are saying. And I know what you really mean. You don't seem to understand that when you talk about how you _train_ with a sword it is not true. You started a thread about why people train with a sword.
> ****[b[Since you do not go to a teacher and thus do not train with a sword, it is strange that you include yourself[/b].
> 
> If you adopted the proper attitude for someone in your position (a person who plays with a sword and can't be bothered to go to train under a teacher) then there would be a lot less trouble around here.
> ...


 
If any of you(like about 90% of the respondents), 'really understood', than you would phrase yourselves different,  so that is didn't appear ignorant of my own responses.  And if any you 'only' take some of my mistakes in expressing myself vs. the genuine attempt to express my understanding of things,  than there's a real issue at hand- and if any of you can't see that,  than open your eyes and read, and stop this attack please!~!

***If I 'dont understand' Don,  how come it made so much sense to get a response or two?
The intent of the post was multiple(and deliberate),  and minus myself,  I almost bet this thread is different from anything posted here before.

I won't do the search,  because I'm convinced of what I just said.

*So far, there's only been one member who has stated(on the last thread), that I've not made the claims others here have stated that I have.  At least someone can really read what's being said.


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## Don Roley (Jun 3, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> If any of you(like about 90% of the respondents), 'really understood', than you would phrase yourselves different,  so that is didn't appear ignorant of my own responses.  And if any you 'only' take some of my mistakes in expressing myself vs. the genuine attempt to express my understanding of things,  than there's a real issue at hand- and if any of you can't see that,  than open your eyes and read, and stop this attack please!~!
> 
> ***If I 'dont understand' Don,  how come it made so much sense to get a response or two?
> The intent of the post was multiple(and deliberate),  and minus myself,  I almost bet this thread is different from anything posted here before.
> ...



If one person said something, then maybe it is a mistake.

But to say that you are right and everyone else here is wrong smacks of an ego several sizes too large.

You don't train with a sword, you play with one. When this was made clear in the last thread, you start a new one with the premis of why do *we* train with the sword. Thus you have set yourself up as someone who trains instead of plays.

And after I look at the photos of the guy in that sword forum thread, I can't let people believe that someone who _trains_ with a sword would reccomend or do the things you do. If you adopt a more approriate attitude and stop trying to present yourself as a student of the sword, then the rest of us need not make it clear to everyone who may later join that you do not speak from any experience worth talking about.


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## pstarr (Jun 3, 2006)

People don't generally carry swords around anymore.  So why do we train with them?  Why do we strive to perfect each tiny movement when the truth is that we'll likely never engage another human being with this weapon?

     Only those who train it really understand-


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## Calm Intention (Jun 3, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> 1.*If one person said something, then maybe it is a mistake*.
> 
> 2.*But to say that you are right and everyone else here is wrong smacks of an ego several sizes too large*.
> 
> ...


 
1.good point,  can't argue with that....but i still know what i am reading
   here.
2.there you go again.  you don't know my ego at all, and about this 'right'
   thing,  where do you get that from?  is this another repetitive attempt
   to obfuscate my words from what i actually have said,  or are you 
   able to differentiate?   i really don't understand this continued effort 
   to misrepresent what i've actually said.
3.correct,  i am not a student of the sword,  but the intent of this thread
   remains legit to its asking,,   and my 'why do *WE*'(thereby 
   including myself with the true sword students), is a smaller part of a 
   much larger question--- but thankyou for proving to
   myself  that my small quanta of circumstance here,  becomes the 
   dillution point for the rest of the discussion.


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## Don Roley (Jun 3, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> there you go again.  you don't know my ego at all,



You are most wrong. I can see quite clearly from here what type of person you are. When you let slip your comment about being in the 80 percentile, it was a window into your soul. You backed away from it, because otherwise it would have been a problem just as you have backed away from other statements. You can tell a person by the things they write. You can especially tell what sort of person they are when things are not going their way. 

And the fact remains that you wish to be counted as a person who studies the sword. You don't study the sword- you play in your backyard with one. And as long as people may read this board and think to follow your example, it is almost a civic duty to make it really really clear that you are not.

When you comment on an open forum, then you are going to get comments. And from the first post in this thread you tried carrying over the matter of how you were treated and put your spin on things. That is another glimpse into what sort of person you are.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 4, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> You are most wrong. I can see quite clearly from here what type of person you are. When you let slip your comment about being in the 80 percentile, it was a *window into your soul*. You backed away from it, because otherwise it would have been a problem just as you have backed away from other statements. You can tell a person by the things they write. You can especially tell what sort of person they are when things are not going their way.
> 
> And the fact remains that you wish to be counted as a person who studies the sword. You don't study the sword- you play in your backyard with one. And as long as people may read this board and think to follow your example, it is almost a civic duty to make it really really clear that you are not.
> 
> When you comment on an open forum, then you are going to get comments. And from the first post in this thread you tried carrying over the matter of how you were treated and put your spin on things. That is another glimpse into what sort of person you are.


 
Don,
I don't study the sword,  and I never said that I did(check the title of the thread here please).
I backed away from some things,  because I was foolish when I said them, and I believe I explained why at the time.
As to 'things going my way',  that is a bit ambiguous considering my opponents here(yes opponents it seems to me),  keep harping on one or two things I mistaked on,  leave out the good,  and at times it seems like deliberate mischaracterization.  To me,  thats offensive.

I know the duty you and the others have to 'make sure/certain' that both I and anyone else who does what I am doing,  does not,  and that you are trying to set the best example.

Now, I have said similar things to the last passage numerous times, but regardless of my awareness of these things,  either you or someone else will come back with some fault.   Its bewildering to me to say the least.

I will accept one thing now that I have not before,  it is 'play'.  
I was resistant to this definition for a few reasons, and I guess all were just personal.    
I think my umbrage is do to some personal issues,  and I've been projecting on everyone here- to one degree or another.

But Don.,... do you really 'know my soul'?  I mean 'window to'....thats a bit much no?

I mean,  I care about the world.  Usually I'm on some political discussion forum.    I also dabble in the 'special relativity'  board of some physics sites(though I know zippo of physics).....but I do believe(like others),  that consciousness is the unified field(or theory of everything).
I even have my own personal theory that goes beyond some of the comments of those in the know in this area,  but I'm straying at the moment.

I should bow out and leave the mat here,  and I am sorry if I caused disharmony.


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## Don Roley (Jun 4, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> I should bow out and leave the mat here,  and I am sorry if I caused disharmony.



That may be the best bet. Take about three months off from posting and try to take a look into your soul. Don't expect it to be easy. People can often see things in us that we ourselves cannot. And we do our best to cover over things we do not want to admit to ourselves.

When things are calmer, and you can be more objective, you may cringe when you see what you have wrote. You would not be the first and would join a heck of a lot of other people here on Martialtalk. The ones that don't take a break and step back to try to look objectively tend to not last long.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 4, 2006)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> That may be the best bet. Take about three months off from posting *and try to take a look into your soul. Don't expect it to be easy. People can often see things in us that we ourselves cannot*. And we do our best to cover over things we do not want to admit to ourselves


 
Don,
I think you're talking about character,  or possibly spirit,  but this 'soul' thing that you reference once more,  I think you're over-stepping when you claim insight to this.
You also could tell by what I wrote,  that this comment about 'my soul'  bothered me,  but you still selectively took this from everything I said.

I don't think we even have a semantics problem here,  so why don't you explain how you peer into others souls.
I can't 'leave the mat'(per se),  without having some final closure and understanding to this.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jun 4, 2006)

Lisa said:
			
		

> Anyone that "plays" without training is a few bricks short of a load, IMO



Yes, they are.


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## Edmund BlackAdder (Jun 4, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> Don,
> I think you're talking about character,  or possibly spirit,  but this 'soul' thing that you reference once more,  I think you're over-stepping when you claim insight to this.
> You also could tell by what I wrote,  that this comment about 'my soul'  bothered me,  but you still selectively took this from everything I said.
> 
> ...


I use a magic 8 ball myself. It tends to be quite accurate.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 10, 2006)

Edmund BlackAdder said:
			
		

> Yes, they are.


 
Personally,  the insults to defend the un-initiated(but directed at me.....obviously),  are revealing of yours/others.....own weak character.

I've insulted no one here; I've only challenged after others have excerpted some of my comments.
I'm actually very angry about this,  and I think some of you should look at yourselves when you make some of these comments of yours.

Yes,  defend and protect those who are naive to the dangers; but minus my direct involvement in the art/philosophy/discipline,,,, I've never(other than a teenie mini cut),  hurt myself in self practice.
I know that bothers all of you,  but thats my reality...deal with it, and stop your attacks- I dont' respect it, as much as you disrespect my own short-comings.

****still, we await Don to tell us all about our 'souls'.
The moderator(Lisa),,, has no problem with Don's comment on that??
The others remain silent...hmmmm.

Don?  Its about my spirit and character,, not about your insight to my 'soul'!   I hope that was your mistake,  and not an attempt to try me.


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## shesulsa (Jun 10, 2006)

*Mod. Note. 

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-G Ketchmark / shesulsa
-MT Super Moderator*


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## pstarr (Jun 10, 2006)

I think it's clear that Don's original intention, as well as everyone else's, was (and still is) that you need to seek out a qualified instructor and learn the authentic art of the sword rather than playing with it.

Anyone can swing a sword or a stick or whatever.  But to learn the "why's" and to truly grasp the spirit of the art you need a teacher.

So rather than argue, I think it would be best for you to simply listen to those who have already traveled the portion of the path upon which you're standing, and heed their advice.


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## Calm Intention (Jun 11, 2006)

pstarr said:
			
		

> I think it's clear that Don's original intention, as well as everyone else's, was (and still is) that you need to seek out a qualified instructor and learn the authentic art of the sword rather than playing with it.
> 
> Anyone can swing a sword or a stick or whatever. But to learn the "why's" and to truly grasp the spirit of the art you need a teacher.
> 
> So rather than argue, I think it would be best for you to simply listen to those who have already traveled the portion of the path upon which you're standing, and heed their advice.


 
Well said Pstarr,  but Don is mistaken on this 'soul' thing,  and I take umbrage to that.  
I admit I have problems of character and spirit,  but when someone professes to insight our soul,  they are over-stretching things and insulting too(even if they don't recognize it).

As to 'anyone swing a sword or stick', well there are degrees of this.
I have said over and over that I don't have the 'trained/formal' level of proficiency(though oddly, only one person seems to have recognized this),
but I 'do' have a level of control and awareness that is far beyond the average.

Nope, I'm not 'anyone',  and I am not trying to confuse the difference----I just hope that others 'do not' either.


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## Chris deMonch (Jun 11, 2006)

Criminy is this discussion really still going on?  What are you even arguing at this point?
From where I sit, even the title of this thread is a misnomer, as you don't "train with a sword."  You've got bladed weapons that you mess around with, which if it makes you feel fine and dandy then fine.  However, it's not "training with a sword" and no one who actually trains is going to validate your practice for you.  If you're interested in how to use the Japanese sword then find training.  Don't go off about how cool and close what you're doing on your own is and expect to get anything other than rolling of the eyes.
You seem to acknowledge the need for training but are not at a point in life where you can pursue it.  That's fine.  JSA is an expensive and time consuming path.  
However, this does not mean that whatever practice you've concocted on your own is a reasonable facsimile or anything to be impressed by for the martial community at large and the sword community in general.  If you're training that's great.  If you're not then your opinions on the matter are of no particular interest.
It would be like me, Chris deMonch, legendary drunk, lecher, and kenshi extraordinaire, with my BFA in Animation in tow butting my head into a room full of bacteriologists (for argument's sake) who are in the middle of a heated discussion about germs.  If I were interested in the subject I would just keep my mouth shut and listen to the people in the know, not interject with my opinions formed from watching Outbreak or something like that.


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## Don Roley (Jun 11, 2006)

Calm Intention said:
			
		

> Well said Pstarr,  but Don is mistaken on this 'soul' thing,  and I take umbrage to that.
> I admit I have problems of character and spirit,  but when someone professes to insight our soul,  they are over-stretching things and insulting too(even if they don't recognize it).



No, it is really simple. You can tell what sort of person someone is by the way they act and write. It is just a simple as that.


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## shesulsa (Jun 11, 2006)

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## soul_sword34 (Jul 18, 2006)

Charles Mahan said:
			
		

> I don't know anyone in the traditional JSA world who trains for practical modern self defense. That's just not the point any longer.


 Sword techniques are very easily transfered to the empty hand same as calligraphy.  Personally I train with the sword for many reasons but the most important is to control my mind.  I have a terrible disorder and if I don't practice then I literally have not faced the enemy.  Martial Arts helps me win.  It just so happens that the sword is in my hand for whatever reason I feel naked without it.


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## karateka (Jul 19, 2006)

the sword is a difficult weapon to master , and owning a sword doesnt givr you the ability to kill anyone. a sword needs to be trained with, where as a gun is lethal in the hands of anyone. this removes any challange and elegance associated with use of weapons that are too easy to work. in days gone by weapons were created, and needed to be mastered. modern weapons like firearms, explosives are much easier to opperate. there is no tradition in hunting deer with a deer-seeking missile. 

tradition is important, and swords have much tradition  which varies by sword.

also swords and sticks are extentions of your body, and there is greater elegance tradition and honour in using your body rather than say a firearm, which allows anyone too kill anyone else with the pull of a trigger, the force is constant by all users, no one can make a gun shoot harder or faster or longer than anyone else, but again there are greater variables when extentions of your body are used.


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## Charles Mahan (Jul 19, 2006)

I disagree.  Any idiot can pull a trigger, but that same idiot can swing a sword.  Hitting a target at a range of 2 miles with a strong crosswind is another thing altogether.  It is possible BTW.  Learning how to use modern tools of warfare can be everybit as complicated as learning the proper ways of using a sword.

And yes a person with a proper understanding of trajectories can make a bullet go quite a bit further than someone who doesn't have the same knowledge.


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## soul_sword34 (Jul 19, 2006)

karateka said:
			
		

> the sword is a difficult weapon to master , and owning a sword doesnt givr you the ability to kill anyone. a sword needs to be trained with, where as a gun is lethal in the hands of anyone. this removes any challange and elegance associated with use of weapons that are too easy to work. in days gone by weapons were created, and needed to be mastered. modern weapons like firearms, explosives are much easier to opperate. there is no tradition in hunting deer with a deer-seeking missile.
> 
> tradition is important, and swords have much tradition which varies by sword.
> 
> also swords and sticks are extentions of your body, and there is greater elegance tradition and honour in using your body rather than say a firearm, which allows anyone too kill anyone else with the pull of a trigger, the force is constant by all users, no one can make a gun shoot harder or faster or longer than anyone else, but again there are greater variables when extentions of your body are used.


 
First, if you have two arms and two legs that by nature can be dangerous.  Owning a sword does give you the ability to kill, that is why we train.  Training makes us less dangerous and more in control.  While the art itself is "elegant", graceful, the reality of what you are training to do is not.  There is nothing beautiful about decapitation or Sepuku only in the eyes of romantacism.

Second, when you train diligently in one thing all other things become possible.  Firearms themselves are no different than the sword and require the same respect and training to be "mastered".  Any fool can kill with a sword and any fool can kill with a Glock.  Each requires the same discipline and training.  Each is equally deadly and finally each is an extention of the body.  Take CQB for example and you will see what I mean there is no "pulling" of the trigger but a squeeze.  Draw, stance, Haragei, control, Mushin they all apply.  You said, "no one can make a gun shoot harder or faster or longer than anybody else".  I see what you're trying to say but that is inaccurate.  When you say "harder" I think of vital accuracy and when you say "faster" I think of target aquisition.


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