# karate question from a tkd guy



## ralphmcpherson (Feb 16, 2013)

I have recently started cross training in shotokan and Im really enjoying it, after nearly eight years of tkd. I was wondering if someone could explain to me in "simple terms" the difference between  shotokan, isshin ryu, goju ryu and wado ryu karate and which set of kata each one does. Im not so much asking about the history/origin of each, but more so the actual difference in the way they do things compared to each other. Thanks in adavance.


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## arnisador (Feb 16, 2013)

Shotokan is the original Japanese style, and one of the most popular martial arts worldwide. Linear, strong, deep stances. Isshin is an Okinawan style. Forward-facing, uncommon fist formation and a vertical punch. Goju has Okinawan and Japanese variants. Wado is a Japanese style with a jujutsu influence. There are lots of specific differences; Isshin looks very different from the others. All but Okinawan Goju are from the early-to-mid 1900s.

I'm afraid this is a very broad question! I'd advise looking them up on YouTube to get a feel for each.


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## K-man (Feb 17, 2013)

You might also find that the more modern styles were modified to enable them to be safely taught in schools. Also, a lot of these styles have a big focus on sport that makes then synergistic with TKD.  But in reality, a style is just a style. They all have good points and most have significant weaknesses. A good instructor will overcome a lot of the problems.  Many will have crossed trained to fill the gaps they have identified. Don't get too hung up on the different kata from the different styles. Explained by a knowledgable instructor, any kata can be a treasure chest.   Iain Abernethy has a few fantastic DVDs on the Pinan/Heian kata.      :asian:


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## arnisador (Feb 17, 2013)

Shotokan will be the closest to TKD--it was TKD's base are--and Wado may remind you a little of Hapkido, though the latter takes the locks and throws much further.


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## chinto (Feb 18, 2013)

isshinryu like most Okinawan styles fights more squared up, shorter stances then the shotokan. the okinawan arts are softer, have more circular motions in them. most are taught with less sporterization but that is not to say they do not have ways of being used in tournaments.  shotokan was taken from Okinawan Shorin ryu. Funikoshi Sensei was a student of Anku Itosu.  when he moved to Japan to help differentiate it from jujitsu, he took out most of the locks and throws and made it more liner and harder. ( it made it fit the Japanese culture and mind set better and gained him students.) and as said before Shotokan is one of the basis of TKD.  Okinawa is where Karate was born. they are softer, a mix of hard and soft with Goju being actually the hardest of the Okinawan styles. ( not harder to learn, but harder in the way it works, as to say a very soft style like Aikido from japan.)  the Japanese version of Goju has some differences in the way they do things but is still one of the hardest of styles out there. However it is more circular in some techniques and things then Shotokan.


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## ralphmcpherson (Feb 19, 2013)

So are there many locks, throws, hapkido/aikido sort of stuff in shotokan? I will, of course, eventually discuss all these things with sensei, but at the moment after about eight years of tkd (and a little bit of instructing) I am really enjoying just putting on the white belt and taking it all in as a beginner and trying not to ask a thousand questions each time I enter the dojo. My japanese instructor also has limited english and its  not always easy for him to explain things on too in depth a level to a beginner. His english is fine for teaching and discussing the curriculum and techniques, but I wouldnt want to get into a long deep and meaningful discussion until I get used to understanding him better


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## arnisador (Feb 19, 2013)

ralphmcpherson said:


> So are there many locks, throws, hapkido/aikido sort of stuff in shotokan?



No. Wado would have rather more of that, and in the Okinawan arts locking is there but of a different type. It's definitely de-emphasized in Shotokan, which is very much a striking style known for strong punches from deep stances.


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## K-man (Feb 19, 2013)

ralphmcpherson said:


> So are there many locks, throws, hapkido/aikido sort of stuff in shotokan?


It will depend on the instructor in any style as to whether you find locks and holds etc. taught in karate. In the Japanese  Goju I leaned for decades, we had virtually none.  Even then they may not teach then at lower levels as they will probably be more concerned with getting the basics right. You could ask any of the senior students about the curriculum if it is too hard at this time to talk with the head instructor.   :asian:


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## chinto (Feb 19, 2013)

the Okinawan karate styles have a great deal more locks and things taught by far then most of the Japanese styles of karate on a whole.


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## ralphmcpherson (Feb 19, 2013)

The joint locks side of things dont overly worry me because the tkd club I train at incorporates a lot of hapkido, particularly in the dan ranks, so Ive probably had my fix of that stuff for a while. Also my wife is a black belt in tkd and comes home after every class wanting to work on the hapkido side of things, so I still get my fix of the joint locks and throws from my ties to tkd. Doing an art that will focus primarily on striking might be fun for a while


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## Kong Soo Do (Feb 20, 2013)

Ralph,

In your Shotokan training, have you or will you be training in the Pinan (or Heian) katas?  If so, and if it is of interest to you, Iain Abernethy has some excellent (in my opinion) books/DVD's concerning the bunkai of these katas.  If you haven't looked at it yet;

http://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/articles

Specifically the series of articles entitled, _The Pinan-Heian Series as a Fighting System _and _The Basics of Bunkai (Kata Application).

_I found them of tremedous interest.


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## ralphmcpherson (Feb 20, 2013)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Ralph,
> 
> In your Shotokan training, have you or will you be training in the Pinan (or Heian) katas?  If so, and if it is of interest to you, Iain Abernethy has some excellent (in my opinion) books/DVD's concerning the bunkai of these katas.  If you haven't looked at it yet;
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. The first kata I am learning is heian shodan, so I guess I am learning the heian kata.


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## Kong Soo Do (Feb 21, 2013)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Thanks for the link. The first kata I am learning is heian shodan, so I guess I am learning the heian kata.



Correct. IIRC, Funakoshi Sensei changed the name from Pinan to Heian.  And I believe he switched up the first and second kata.  So Pinan Shodan is Heian Nidan and Pinan Nidan is Heian Shodan.  I think that is right.  Either way, I think they're a great set of forms and I really like how Abernethy Sensei breaks down the bunkai.


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## chinto (Feb 21, 2013)

Kong Soo Do said:


> Correct. IIRC, Funakoshi Sensei changed the name from Pinan to Heian.  And I believe he switched up the first and second kata.  So Pinan Shodan is Heian Nidan and Pinan Nidan is Heian Shodan.  I think that is right.  Either way, I think they're a great set of forms and I really like how Abernethy Sensei breaks down the bunkai.



yes the Japanese styles did switch pinon shodan and nidan with each other.  there are also some changes, but well most styles pinon kata seem to all have some differences.


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