# Shaolin Kempo Masters Missing?



## Gufbal1982

hey, 

does anyone know what happened to Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione, Scott Woods, Bill Mailman and/or Bob Huckens?  They have all magically disappeared...


----------



## Danjo

Gufbal1982 said:


> hey,
> 
> does anyone know what happened to Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione, Scott Woods, Bill Mailman and/or Bob Huckens? They have all magically disappeared...


 
Mailman is still around. John Bishop was in touch with him a couple of months ago.


----------



## Gufbal1982

That's cool!  Do you know what he's up to?  What about the others?  Anyone know where they went?


----------



## Flying Crane

Scott Woods was here in the San Francisco bay area, in Oakland, a few years ago.  He had a few schools going in the area, and tried to recruit me to teach in one of them.  I declined.

Shortly thereafter I notice the schools were closing down.  I think he eventually sold off whatever was still running, don't know what he is doing now.  There might have been legal problems attached to the activity, but I'm not sure.


----------



## almost a ghost

Flying Crane said:


> Scott Woods was here in the San Francisco bay area, in Oakland, a few years ago.  He had a few schools going in the area, and tried to recruit me to teach in one of them.  I declined.
> 
> Shortly thereafter I notice the schools were closing down.  I think he eventually sold off whatever was still running, don't know what he is doing now.  There might have been legal problems attached to the activity, but I'm not sure.



Was this back in 1997? I remember a district manager telling me he was embezling or something. I didn't think much of it though because those guy would automatically **** talk like crazy if you left USSD.


----------



## Flying Crane

almost a ghost said:


> Was this back in 1997? I remember a district manager telling me he was embezling or something. I didn't think much of it though because those guy would automatically **** talk like crazy if you left USSD.


 

yeah, 1997 or so sounds about right, maybe a bit later, probably before 2000 anyways.


----------



## thatdude

Flying Crane said:


> yeah, 1997 or so sounds about right, maybe a bit later, probably before 2000 anyways.



Master Scott Woods left in 98


----------



## Gufbal1982

thatdude said:


> Master Scott Woods left in 98


 

that sounds about right because I went to a Karate International tournament in like June of 98 in San Francisco...I took home 2 tropheys that day!  2nd in weapons and first in kata's.  Nice bunch of people.


----------



## KENPOJOE

Gufbal1982 said:


> hey,
> 
> does anyone know what happened to Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione, Scott Woods, Bill Mailman and/or Bob Huckens? They have all magically disappeared...


Hi folks!
You brought up some of the old timers as far as Art Singer,Rudy Horne,and Larry Mangone are concerned!
I remember them all from my early days in Fred Villari's original USSD from the early 1970's. Art Singer actually taught for a short time at the Fairhaven USSD in the 1970's after my original instructor, {fred}Ed Hosmer left that location. Larry Mangone, who opened the Brockton USSD and had such students as Al Cunningham [who would later go on to create the NEKICK organization] and John Foster,Perhaps you can get Prof. Cunningham [meijin10] to answer about Mr. Mangone's present whereabouts. I know Mr. Mangone was involved in tai chi later in his career.
Rudy Horne was one of the co-founders of the Original USSD along with Fred Villari in the early 1970s. He is listed on all my old USSD certificates. One of my instructors has old footage of rudy horne performing 2 pinan in the fairhaven studio. I beleive he's still alive and possibly in real estate.
Thanks for bringing up old names and old memories!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

KENPOJOE said:


> Hi folks!
> You brought up some of the old timers as far as Art Singer,Rudy Horne,and Larry Mangone are concerned!
> I remember them all from my early days in Fred Villari's original USSD from the early 1970's. Art Singer actually taught for a short time at the Fairhaven USSD in the 1970's after my original instructor, {fred}Ed Hosmer left that location. Larry Mangone, who opened the Brockton USSD and had such students as Al Cunningham [who would later go on to create the NEKICK organization] and John Foster,Perhaps you can get Prof. Cunningham [meijin10] to answer about Mr. Mangone's present whereabouts. I know Mr. Mangone was involved in tai chi later in his career.
> Rudy Horne was one of the co-founders of the Original USSD along with Fred Villari in the early 1970s. He is listed on all my old USSD certificates. One of my instructors has old footage of rudy horne performing 2 pinan in the fairhaven studio. I beleive he's still alive and possibly in real estate.
> Thanks for bringing up old names and old memories!
> BEGOOD,
> KENPOJOE


 
Thanks for filling the gaps Kempojoe!


----------



## Gufbal1982

KENPOJOE said:


> Hi folks!
> You brought up some of the old timers as far as Art Singer,Rudy Horne,and Larry Mangone are concerned!
> I remember them all from my early days in Fred Villari's original USSD from the early 1970's. Art Singer actually taught for a short time at the Fairhaven USSD in the 1970's after my original instructor, {fred}Ed Hosmer left that location. Larry Mangone, who opened the Brockton USSD and had such students as Al Cunningham [who would later go on to create the NEKICK organization] and John Foster,Perhaps you can get Prof. Cunningham [meijin10] to answer about Mr. Mangone's present whereabouts. I know Mr. Mangone was involved in tai chi later in his career.
> Rudy Horne was one of the co-founders of the Original USSD along with Fred Villari in the early 1970s. He is listed on all my old USSD certificates. One of my instructors has old footage of rudy horne performing 2 pinan in the fairhaven studio. I beleive he's still alive and possibly in real estate.
> Thanks for bringing up old names and old memories!
> BEGOOD,
> KENPOJOE


 
Thanks Joe!  I of course now have more Master's that have "gone missing."  What happened to...

Bob Huckins
Harvey Thaler


----------



## John Bishop

Gufbal1982 said:


> Thanks Joe!  I of course now have more Master's that have "gone missing."  What happened to...
> 
> Bob Huckins
> Harvey Thaler



How about; Dennis Knowles


----------



## 14 Kempo

John Bishop said:


> How about; Dennis Knowles


 
I studied under Dennis Knowles in Riverside. He had sold his studio and him wife and child moved back to Mass., 1987-88 timeframe, last I heard of him.


----------



## John Bishop

14 Kempo said:


> I studied under Dennis Knowles in Riverside. He had sold his studio and him wife and child moved back to Mass., 1987-88 timeframe, last I heard of him.


 

Did you know David Villanueva?  I think he bought the school.


----------



## 14 Kempo

Yes, David Villanueva was a green belt when he bought the studio. I'll just leave it at that


----------



## John Bishop

14 Kempo said:


> LOL ... yes, didn't he start calling himself Master Dave?


 
I'll PM you.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

KENPOJOE said:


> Hi folks!
> You brought up some of the old timers as far as Art Singer,Rudy Horne,and Larry Mangone are concerned!
> I remember them all from my early days in Fred Villari's original USSD from the early 1970's. Art Singer actually taught for a short time at the Fairhaven USSD in the 1970's after my original instructor, {fred}Ed Hosmer left that location. Larry Mangone, who opened the Brockton USSD and had such students as Al Cunningham [who would later go on to create the NEKICK organization] and John Foster,Perhaps you can get Prof. Cunningham [meijin10] to answer about Mr. Mangone's present whereabouts. I know Mr. Mangone was involved in tai chi later in his career.
> Rudy Horne was one of the co-founders of the Original USSD along with Fred Villari in the early 1970s. He is listed on all my old USSD certificates. One of my instructors has old footage of rudy horne performing 2 pinan in the fairhaven studio. I beleive he's still alive and possibly in real estate.
> Thanks for bringing up old names and old memories!
> BEGOOD,
> KENPOJOE


 

Do you know why Master Rudy Horn left?


----------



## LawDog

During the mid 70's the USSD was reorganized, many were placed in positions of power, Rudy was excluded. The next reorganization formed the FVSSD.


----------



## Danjo

LawDog said:


> During the mid 70's the USSD was reorganized, many were placed in positions of power, Rudy was excluded. The next reorganization form the FVSSD.


 
So where did he go then?


----------



## LawDog

I was told that after he left Rudy moved out of the area, to Rhode Island or Conn. I have been told that he is back in my area, I will contact some of my way back friends and ask them if Rudy is back or not.


----------



## Gufbal1982

John Bishop said:


> Did you know David Villanueva? I think he bought the school.


 

I know who he is.  He's still in Riverside and teaches a very closed door system.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

LawDog said:


> I was told that after he left Rudy moved out of the area, to Rhode Island or Conn. I have been told that he is back in my area, I will contact some of my way back friends and ask them if Rudy is back or not.


 
Thank you.


----------



## MeatWad2

Gufbal1982 said:


> hey,
> 
> does anyone know what happened to Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione, Scott Woods, Bill Mailman and/or Bob Huckens? They have all magically disappeared...


 

Did Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione and Fred Villari all run United Studios as a community?  I saw something on another thread that said USSD was originally Fred Villari's...so, man I'm confused!


----------



## Mariachi Joe

USSD was the name Fred Villari gave to his organization, but he later changed the name to Villari Self defence centers or something like that.  After he split from Villari Charles Mattera named his organization USSD.


----------



## 14 Kempo

MeatWad2 said:


> Did Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione and Fred Villari all run United Studios as a community? I saw something on another thread that said USSD was originally Fred Villari's...so, man I'm confused!


 
As taken from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Grandmaster Fred Villari is credited with the creation of the martial arts style labeled as "Shaolin Kempo". Both Charles Mattera and Steve DeMasco were students under Villari. During that time, Villari's school was known as United Studios of Self Defense, but was later renamed to Fred Villari's Studio of Self Defense. Today's USSD is mostly unrelated to the original USSD or FVSSD except from Mattera's and DeMasco's instructional history. However, both use the term "Shaolin Kempo" to describe their style and lineage." ... Shhhh, don't tell them, cause it's not claimed in thier lineage.


----------



## Gufbal1982

14 Kempo said:


> As taken from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> "Grandmaster Fred Villari is credited with the creation of the martial arts style labeled as "Shaolin Kempo". Both Charles Mattera and Steve DeMasco were students under Villari. During that time, Villari's school was known as United Studios of Self Defense, but was later renamed to Fred Villari's Studio of Self Defense. Today's USSD is mostly unrelated to the original USSD or FVSSD except from Mattera's and DeMasco's instructional history. However, both use the term "Shaolin Kempo" to describe their style and lineage." ... Shhhh, don't tell them, cause it's not claimed in thier lineage.


 
OMG!  You mean it's not?  LOL


----------



## Mariachi Joe

Yeah it always bugged me that there was no mention of GM Villari in the ussd manual.


----------



## MeatWad2

Mariachi Joe said:


> Yeah it always bugged me that there was no mention of GM Villari in the ussd manual.


 

could it have something to do with the lawsuit that Mattera had with Villari?


----------



## Danjo

MeatWad2 said:


> could it have something to do with the lawsuit that Mattera had with Villari?


 
I'm sure it's just marketing.


----------



## Mariachi Joe

I never knew Mattera had filed a lawsuit against Villari.  I wonder how he took the name and was able to call himself the founder of ussd when Villari is the clear founder of ussd.


----------



## LawDog

Fred V. did not copyright / incorporate the name USSD properly. He did not have his name as part of the USSD logo, (a poor mans copyright). Ed Parker, Nick C and many others have their names right on the corporate name.


----------



## Gufbal1982

LawDog said:


> Fred V. did not copyright / incorporate the name USSD properly. He did not have his name as part of the USSD logo, (a poor mans copyright). Ed Parker, Nick C and many others have their names right on the corporate name.


 
ACTUALLY, yes he did.  I have videos of commericials where it says "Come to Fred Villari's United Studios of Self Defense" and then says the number of locations in MA.  Also, the original USSD patch was the one with the punch in the center...the one that ended up staying with FVSSD.  USSD didn't come up with the bonsai tree logo until the split.  A "poor man's copyright" is actually when someone mails, say for instance, an original music piece to themself.  That proves the date it was written on, and yes, it will hold up in a court of law.  

However, let's please go back to the original topic.


----------



## LawDog

Ok,
I was just trying to clear up on how Fred V lost the USSD name to C.M. Fred V actually lost the name when the group from Canada broke away and took the USSD name with them. This is the actual reason why Fred V changed the name to FVSSD. I was there at the meeting.
Now this being said I will go back to the original subject.
This is important because this is about the time that Rudy Horn moved on / dropped out of sight. Around this time Art Singer left the organization for the first time around this time.


----------



## Gufbal1982

LawDog said:


> Ok,
> I was just trying to clear up on how Fred V lost the USSD name to C.M. Fred V actually lost the name when the group from Canada broke away and took the USSD name with them. This is the actual reason why Fred V changed the name to FVSSD. I was there at the meeting.
> Now this being said I will go back to the original subject.
> This is important because this is about the time that Rudy Horn moved on / dropped out of sight. Around this time Art Singer left the organization for the first time around this time.


 
Just to clarify what you're saying, Fred V. lost the USSD name in a court battle.  CM has the documents to prove it.  My FV instructor was a student of Art Singer before he came to California.  

Where's Harvey Thaler now?


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

Mariachi Joe said:


> I never knew Mattera had filed a lawsuit against Villari.  I wonder how he took the name and was able to call himself the founder of ussd when Villari is the clear founder of ussd.



Who knows?
He probabley couldn't think of a good name and villari droped the name 10 years before and probabley didn't copyright it.


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

LawDog said:


> Ok,
> I was just trying to clear up on how Fred V lost the USSD name to C.M. Fred V actually lost the name when the group from Canada broke away and took the USSD name with them. This is the actual reason why Fred V changed the name to FVSSD. I was there at the meeting.
> Now this being said I will go back to the original subject.
> This is important because this is about the time that Rudy Horn moved on / dropped out of sight. Around this time Art Singer left the organization for the first time around this time.



Why did art singer leave ?


----------



## MeatWad2

LawDog said:


> Ok,
> I was just trying to clear up on how Fred V lost the USSD name to C.M. Fred V actually lost the name when the group from Canada broke away and took the USSD name with them. This is the actual reason why Fred V changed the name to FVSSD. I was there at the meeting.
> Now this being said I will go back to the original subject.
> This is important because this is about the time that Rudy Horn moved on / dropped out of sight. Around this time Art Singer left the organization for the first time around this time.



Did you workout with Mattera?


----------



## LawDog

Yes


----------



## Danjo

Gufbal1982 said:


> hey,
> 
> does anyone know what happened to Art Singer, Rudy Horne, Larry Mangione, Scott Woods, Bill Mailman and/or Bob Huckens? They have all magically disappeared...


 
Here's Bill Mailman's website:

http://www.umaassociation.com/master.html


----------



## Gufbal1982

Danjo said:


> Here's Bill Mailman's website:
> 
> http://www.umaassociation.com/master.html


 

Thanks Danjo!  One down and many more to go...


----------



## shaolin ninja 4

I wonder what rank he is now? Who does he train with now?


----------



## Tezquatl

One of those names, Robert "Bob" Huckins, I know very well. I trained with him for years. He is a talented Martial Artist who broke away from USSD to start his own school. He still trains and teaches privates. He has some great first hand knowledge of the old days and I heard all the other names asked about on the thread. He always spoke highly of Mr. Villari and Jon Fritz.
-Tezquatl


----------



## Gufbal1982

Tezquatl said:


> One of those names, Robert "Bob" Huckins, I know very well. I trained with him for years. He is a talented Martial Artist who broke away from USSD to start his own school. He still trains and teaches privates. He has some great first hand knowledge of the old days and I heard all the other names asked about on the thread. He always spoke highly of Mr. Villari and Jon Fritz.
> -Tezquatl


 

Where is he now though?  That's the question...


----------



## Gufbal1982

Hey, what happened to Cal Carrozzi?  He's magically dropped off the face of the internet.  Where's Harvey Thaler?


----------



## Bark89

Gufbal1982 said:


> Hey, what happened to Cal Carrozzi?  He's magically dropped off the face of the internet.  Where's Harvey Thaler?



I have never met Cal but I have a friend that just told me that Cal recently moved his school down the street.


----------



## SK101

almost a ghost said:


> Was this back in 1997? I remember a district manager telling me he was embezling or something. I didn't think much of it though because those guy would automatically **** talk like crazy if you left USSD.



The phone book issue came after he was already out of USSD. The final straw we were told about was the company suspected he was buying supplies outside the company and one day they caught him. Several USSD instructors from Northern California had Professor Mattera's name on there Yellow Page bills. Supposedly Master Woods told them not to pay it since legally Professor Mattera would have to. I remember the company feeling like they were scrapping while that got paid off.


----------



## SK101

Gufbal1982 said:


> Where is he now though?  That's the question...



Master Joe Moscatelli would probably be a good person to ask about Bob Huckins. He is DM for USSD Conneticut I believe.


----------



## Jdokan

Bark89 said:


> I have never met Cal but I have a friend that just told me that Cal recently moved his school down the street.


As stated above...Cal moved his school 2 doors down closer to the Salem line...or facing his school from the street 2 doors to the left....I have worked out under him from 1973-2006.  He is a very good MA and instructor...at points where I would think why do I still come here what more can I learn?  Another technique another form...He would run a class that would leave me realizing there is ALWAYS something to learn...Don't get complacent about your training....
Got questions? I'll answer what I can...


----------



## Julia Buresh

Long shot - posting on very old thread here but I am looking to get in touch with GM Cal Carrozzi. Per YELP his school in Peabody is closed. My dad was Bill Buresh who studied under GM Carrozzi. My Dad passed away two years ago and I have since taken up martial arts in Cambridge MA. I would love to connect with GM Carrozzi and perhaps take a lesson from him. He did come to my Dad's wake but I didn't have the chance to ask him for his contact information. Any leads are appreciated!


----------

