# Who here believe in



## terryl965 (Nov 24, 2007)

Self defense to the extreme max. Here in Texas a man shot some intruder while breaking into there home after he shot him the intruder sued him for doing damge that was permanmemt to him. The convict won a judgement of some small amout of money but I find the distrubing, I know somebody ever breaks into my house I would differently try my best to do alot of damage, who really knows why he is there in the first place. What would everybody do?


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## Kacey (Nov 24, 2007)

If someone breaks into my house, s/he is asking for whatever punishment I and my dog can dish out, and I will feel no remorse.  Once the person is leaving that's another issue - shooting an intruder in the back is different than driving him/her out.

As far as legal issues go, it's going to depend on the circumstances.  Colorado has a castle law that allows residents to protect themselves and their property from intruders - but as I said above, I see a difference between driving an intruder out, and attacking from behind after he's left.  Perhaps you could post a link to the story you're referring to, so we have a better idea of what happened in this case?


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 24, 2007)

It seems the 'law' is not based on what is written or even what is rational but is created every day in court based on who's lawyer is more clever.


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 24, 2007)

If someone breaks into my home I am going to inflect pain and damage on them.
If someone attacks my family and I am there the same thing goes.
I have never understood how someone that breaks into your house can sue you if they get hurt by you, a family member, animal, or tripping over a toy on the stairs,


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## Bigshadow (Nov 24, 2007)

Well...   A home intruder cannot sue if they are pushing up daisies!   Somebody breaks into my home while I am there I am always going to figure the worst.  The intruder isn't coming in for tea and crumpets.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 24, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> Well... A home intruder cannot sue if they are pushing up daisies!  Somebody breaks into my home while I am there I am always going to figure the worst. The intruder isn't coming in for tea and crumpets.


 
That is basically what I was going to say.

Sadly that is what a law that allows an intruder into your home to sue you if you hurt him is going to do, make it necessary to insure they can't sue.


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 24, 2007)

agreed
I have been told that off the record by a few officers


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## arnisador (Nov 24, 2007)

The question always is...how can you be sure it's an intruder and not someone who thought they were somewhere other than where they are? Do you want to shoot a drunk who thought it was his home? A mentally ill person who isn't sure where she lives?

From a self-defense point of view, shooting may be safest...but one wants to be sure that it is an _intruder _one is dealing with, and not your daughter's lovesick boyfriend. (Er, maybe that's a bad example.) The uncertainty is always there.


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## jks9199 (Nov 24, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> Well...   A home intruder cannot sue if they are pushing up daisies!   Somebody breaks into my home while I am there I am always going to figure the worst.  The intruder isn't coming in for tea and crumpets.


But their families can...

It's vitally important that you learn the laws of self defense for your state, especially home defense.  Not every state accepts the Castle Doctrine; some will require you to retreat as far as possible before defending yourself while others let you almost assume that anyone who breaks into your house is out to kill you.  Even if the Castle Doctrine is accepted, it's often a very fine line between defending yourself or attacking someone.  Chatting on a message board isn't a reliable way to learn these limits, either.  There are numerous courses and books available that discuss issues of self defense.


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## morph4me (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm not sure what the law is in New York, I'd have to check that out, but regardless of the law, I am going to assume that someone who is in my house univited, is here to cause harm to my family or myself and act accordingly.


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## still learning (Nov 24, 2007)

Hello, What is right or wrong ...has nothing to do we our "LAWS"..

Man make the laws...the criminals benifits from them....MAN CAN CHANGE THE LAWS.

The lawyers...know how to use the written laws (to make $$$) ...and protect all of us...

OJ is a good example....this case is a good example...of some laws...we need to rethink..

Plus the intent of the written laws...can be misinterpeted...this has happen many times...

(A city band feeding homeless in the park grass areas...so now they feed the homeless in the parks' parking lots)....away around the law!)

Justice? ...is what our "laws" tells us ......AREN'T WE GLAD WE HAVE GOOD GOVERNMENT AND lawyers? 

Jefferson:  We the people in the future...will get so many new laws....we will need a law to limit them....and what I wrote is not what you today think it means....

The right to bare arms? ....is not a sleeveless shirt...

Aloha ( swimming is a right....along as do not swim right in front of me)..


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## Tames D (Nov 24, 2007)

FearlessFreep said:


> It seems the 'law' is not based on what is written or even what is rational but is created every day in court based on who's lawyer is more clever.


 
I blame the Judges. But then again,their just lawers wearing a robe...


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## kidswarrior (Nov 24, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> But their families can...


My thought, too.


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## Bigshadow (Nov 24, 2007)

arnisador said:


> The question always is...how can you be sure it's an intruder and not someone who thought they were somewhere other than where they are? Do you want to shoot a drunk who thought it was his home? A mentally ill person who isn't sure where she lives?
> 
> From a self-defense point of view, shooting may be safest...but one wants to be sure that it is an _intruder _one is dealing with, and not your daughter's lovesick boyfriend. (Er, maybe that's a bad example.) The uncertainty is always there.



Always be sure of your target before firing.  Yes, certainly one must be able to make the distinction.  Now, as for how I would handle the situation?  I think it would be quite entertaining to see the intruder begging the police to come and get'em. :uhyeah:  However, I would just deal with it as it unfolds.


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## Brother John (Nov 24, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> Well... A home intruder cannot sue if they are pushing up daisies!  Somebody breaks into my home while I am there I am always going to figure the worst. The intruder isn't coming in for tea and crumpets.


....YES!
and their not going to fill you in on the details of thier intentions so that you can make the best decision on how to treat them.
In other words, you MUST expect the worst from them....
and give them the best you've got.


your Brother
John


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## Bigshadow (Nov 24, 2007)

Brother John said:


> ....YES!
> and their not going to fill you in on the details of thier intentions so that you can make the best decision on how to treat them.
> In other words, you MUST expect the worst from them....
> and give them the best you've got.
> ...



I meant I would deal with it as it unfolds and do only what is necessary, using my gut feel of the situation.


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## Drac (Nov 24, 2007)

Many, many, many years ago when I ws a kid and our old neghiborhood started turning bad,  I heard an old time cop tell my Dad that if someone breaks into your house kill them..A corpse cannot file a law suite..jks9199 said it best about checking out the laws home self defense..


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## Obliquity (Nov 24, 2007)

arnisador said:


> The question always is...how can you be sure it's an intruder and not someone who thought they were somewhere other than where they are? Do you want to shoot a drunk who thought it was his home? A mentally ill person who isn't sure where she lives?
> 
> From a self-defense point of view, shooting may be safest...but one wants to be sure that it is an _intruder _one is dealing with, and not your daughter's lovesick boyfriend. (Er, maybe that's a bad example.) The uncertainty is always there.


 

I am pro self-defense. Having said that, Arnisador's post reminded me of the time I mistakenly walked into someone else's apartment.

I worked long days and came home very tired. I went up only two floors rather than three and walked into my downstairs neighbors' apartment. We had never met, so it wasn't like, "Hey, Keith. What's up?" The husband began shouting at me, but, before I realized what I had done, I was nearly down the hall and into their living room. Even when I realized what was happening, I just turned around and walked back out. Yes, I was that tired and out-of-it. I probably appeared drunk or on drugs. (I was neither.)

A lot of things could have happened. Fortunately, it all turned out okay. I guess I am just echoing arnisador. Be sure of your target.


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## jks9199 (Nov 24, 2007)

Obliquity said:


> I am pro self-defense. Having said that, Arnisador's post reminded me of the time I mistakenly walked into someone else's apartment.
> 
> I worked long days and came home very tired. I went up only two floors rather than three and walked into my downstairs neighbors' apartment. We had never met, so it wasn't like, "Hey, Keith. What's up?" The husband began shouting at me, but, before I realized what I had done, I was nearly down the hall and into their living room. Even when I realized what was happening, I just turned around and walked back out. Yes, I was that tired and out-of-it. I probably appeared drunk or on drugs. (I was neither.)
> 
> A lot of things could have happened. Fortunately, it all turned out okay. I guess I am just echoing arnisador. Be sure of your target.


One of the reasons I'm almost paranoid about locking doors is because, when I lived in an apartment, I had someone walk into my apartment by mistake.  They were looking for someone, they'd been told the door would be unlocked, so they went on in.  They just got the wrong floor... 

I've also responded to more than one case where this happened... For example, had a guy get wasted one night shortly after he'd moved.  He went back "home" and proceeded to break into the apartment 'cause his key wouldn't work...  He was TRASHED and just didn't remember that he'd moved!

Would've sucked if I'd blasted them for walking into the wrong door, huh?

But the truth is a burglar is not going to behave the same as someone who's mistaken.  And, despite the bravado, I think most of the people here would recognize that.  

I still strongly and urgently advise everyone to take the time to learn the core of their state code AND relevant decisions about self defense.  We're all "trained martial artists", and in the event that you have to defend yourself, you'd be well advised to know how to justify your actions.  Because, even if there's no doubt and it's open and shut and you're not prosecuted, there's a damn good chance you'll be sued if you hurt someone.  And their attorney (or, in a worst case scenario, the prosecutor if you were charged criminally) WILL paint you as lethal, death in each hand, spitting poison and crapping bullets.  Successful self defense has to carry on beyond keeping your hide intact, unless you really desire to give all your stuff to someone else in a courtroom.  I don't know about you, but I worked hard to get the stuff I've got, I picked and chose it because I like it, and I want to keep it!


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## Bigshadow (Nov 24, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> But the truth is a burglar is not going to behave the same as someone who's mistaken.  And, despite the bravado, I think most of the people here would recognize that.



Exactly!


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## Jai (Nov 24, 2007)

I have three small children and a wife to protect. If someone broke into my house, my god have mercy on them, because I sure wouldn't.


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## DArnold (Nov 24, 2007)

A) To many factors left out of the initial post to make a rational reply.
B) Once I make the decison there will be no lawsuit after!
C) As someone above said, "...know how to justify your actions".  This is the most simple thing to do.  I was scarred for my life!


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## Guardian (Nov 24, 2007)

I would really like to see the full story, I live in Texas and we have some very liberal laws on home self-defense to include your property inside and outside and a very liberal no-retreat law which includes I don't have to retreat from my property, now of course common sense dictates that I'm not going to kill someone breaking into my car, I'm going to give them a shotgun blast in the air.

Now if it comes to my house, no way, no how, they go down the first time, no lawsuits here except from maybe the family for loss of income or whatever hairbrain scheme they can think of, haven't heard of one going through in this state yet.


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## CuongNhuka (Nov 24, 2007)

I would counter sue for twice the amount asked by the con... I would be sueing for the mental distress caused by haveing to shot a... well I shouldn't finish my thought, but, you get the idea.


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## KenpoTex (Nov 24, 2007)

1. keep your doors locked
2. if someone breaks in, assume that they are there to harm you and react accordingly.


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## Brad Dunne (Nov 24, 2007)

I will offer but one piece of advice. If you should find yourself in such a situation and have decided to assert your physical self. Regardless of what should happen to the intruder, make sure he/she had/has a weapon.


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## searcher (Nov 24, 2007)

Even though I hate killing, I am inclined to think that I may have to kill them.   As has been stated, you don't know why they are there and I don't think I wish to ask.   You will have to ask yourself if it will be them or you and yours.   I choose them to not walk away.


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## Jai (Nov 24, 2007)

something an army buddy once told me.

"It is not for the mortal man to ask why, that's for god to sort out"


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## newGuy12 (Nov 24, 2007)

kenpotex said:


> 1. keep your doors locked
> 2. if someone breaks in, assume that they are there to harm you and react accordingly.



Right!

Now, some people do not wish to keep firearms about.  Its not that they dislike firearms, but rather that they do not wish to have the *responsibility* of having firearms about.  For example, if any one little mistake happens (a child gets ahold of a pistol and starts playing with it) tragedy could result.  Its not that everyone who does not own a pistol or rifle is adverse to them.  Its that they wish to live without care, as much as they can.

Now, if someone breaks the door, or breaches the physical security of the house, oh, my, then that's it!  Full-Contact time, no rules!  'Still_Learning' style, all the way!

No joke!


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## MJS (Nov 25, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Self defense to the extreme max. Here in Texas a man shot some intruder while breaking into there home after he shot him the intruder sued him for doing damge that was permanmemt to him. The convict won a judgement of some small amout of money but I find the distrubing, I know somebody ever breaks into my house I would differently try my best to do alot of damage, who really knows why he is there in the first place. What would everybody do?


 
I still like to fall back on assessing the situation first.  LEOs do it, doctors do it and regular everyday people should do it.  Of course, this requires us to 'think on the fly' so to speak, and the decision we make could alter not only the bad guys life, but ours as well.  

I have my doors locked at night, an alarm and a dog.  Not likely someone is just going to walk in accidentally.  In light of the recent home invasions that have happened here in CT., I'm going to assume the worst, and figure this is someone breaking into my home to take my belongings and possibly hurt me or my wife.  If they're armed, that just upped my response as well.  

Could and will we get sued by the intruder?  Probably.  This is why I suggested assessing the situation and be up to date on use of force laws.  

Its really hard to say exactly what we would/would not do, as every situation is different and things change quickly.


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## Brother John (Nov 25, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> I meant I would deal with it as it unfolds and do only what is necessary, using my gut feel of the situation.


Couldn't agree more. 
This is a situation I've considered a lot. What would I do if I found someone who'd broken into my home? 
I think I'd aim to be as immediately debilitating as I can because there's no way to know why they are there. If they're intentions are benign, they wouldn't have illegally broken in, they'd probably use the door-bell. The fact that they had to break the law to get in tells me that they're not selling boy-scout popcorn. While I would like to stay on "this" side of lethal if I can, I'd do whatever it takes to make certain that they didn't succeed at their objectives.

Your Brother
John


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## Bigshadow (Nov 25, 2007)

Brother John said:


> If they're intentions are benign, they wouldn't have illegally broken in, they'd probably use the door-bell.




Contrasted with the scenario that had been posted earlier where the drunk or otherwise mentally challenged  person mistakenly walks into your home is quite different than the criminal that has broken into the home.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 25, 2007)

Truthfully I do not think you can have any hard and fast rule but instead need to rely on your instincts and intellect to assess the situation.  Once assessment has occured then you can act accordingly.  Certain factors should certainly weigh in on what you would do such as: the law in your state, who else is in the house, etc.  This assessment process may only take a milisecond as you turn the corner or open a door and somebody is there with a knife in their hand and you feel their murderous intent or it may take a little while longer.  Every situation will be different.


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## PatMunk (Nov 25, 2007)

DArnold said:


> B) Once I make the decison there will be no lawsuit after!
> C) As someone above said, "...know how to justify your actions".  This is the most simple thing to do.  I was scarred for my life!



I wouldn't bank on the statement that there would be no lawsuit after. You have to remember that in this country "Anyone can sue anyone for anything. If they can't there is always a family member who will take up the case.

Your C) quote is good to justify your actions but will not keep them from suing you afterwards.

Even if you win the results will be the same you loose. In 1988 I was involved in an incident where a guy, after being told to drop his gun turned and pointed it at me. He was approximately 2 or 3 feet from me at the time. I shot him while I was dropping to the floor to avoid being shot. He sued me for over 1.5 million dollars even after the jury at the criminal trial told him he wouldn't win a civil case against me. He had no case but it took over 8 years to get the case closed. I still had to have an attorney to defend me and that cost can be very costly.

Don't think well they should have to pay for your attorney ... that probably won't happen ... After all if they had anything to pay your attorney they probably wouldn't be breaking into houses ...

I've seen many times where defendants win a law suit and loose everything doing so.


Pat Munk, Shichidan


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## PatMunk (Nov 25, 2007)

CuongNhuka said:


> I would counter sue for twice the amount asked by the con... I would be sueing for the mental distress caused by haveing to shot a... well I shouldn't finish my thought, but, you get the idea.




Suing someone who has nothing to get gets you nothing. Except poorer trying to pay for your attorney.

Pat Munk, Shichidan


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## tshadowchaser (Nov 25, 2007)

> Contrasted with the scenario that had been posted earlier where the drunk or otherwise mentally challenged  person mistakenly walks into your home is quite different than the criminal that has broken into the home.


 
I have to agree seeing as this has happened in the past. He still spent the night in jail but was not harmed while awaiting the police


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## Darth F.Takeda (Nov 27, 2007)

When my Sesnei shot a perp dead in the line of duty ( The guy was waiting outside a fireescape, with his gun pointed at the window, waiting to kill Dave as he looked out. Dave saw him and drew his pistol and put a 38 through the guys brain, killing him) the perp's family tried to sue him.
 His lawyer told him "Good thing you killed him, because if we do lose the case, he is only woth a million 2 tops, but if you put the guy in a wheelchair he could be worth 10-15 million."


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## terryl965 (Nov 27, 2007)

Darth F.Takeda said:


> When my Sesnei shot a perp dead in the line of duty ( The guy was waiting outside a fireescape, with his gun pointed at the window, waiting to kill Dave as he looked out. Dave saw him and drew his pistol and put a 38 through the guys brain, killing him) the perp's family tried to sue him.
> His lawyer told him "Good thing you killed him, because if we do lose the case, he is only woth a million 2 tops, but if you put the guy in a wheelchair he could be worth 10-15 million."


 

That is a sad thruth


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## Andy Moynihan (Nov 27, 2007)

Everyone is entitled to their last mistake.


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## Doc_Jude (Nov 27, 2007)

Jai said:


> I have three small children and a wife to protect. If someone broke into my house, my god have mercy on them, because I sure wouldn't.



*WORD.*

As Papa Ayoob puts it: A Fatal Error in the Victim Selection Process.


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## Darth F.Takeda (Nov 27, 2007)

I will post this on other sub forum's but I think in the spirit of this thread, all you MetroDC MTers might want to come to this.


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 A SEMINAR ON USE OF WEAPONS AND PHYSICAL FORCE IN VIRGINIA, MARYLAND AND D.C. 
Current mood: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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Conducted by: DAVID ZACHARY KAUFMAN. ESQ.
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ADMITTED TO PRACTICE BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT 
ADMITTED TO THE BARS OF VA. MD. AND D.C.
ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY, SCHOOL OF LAW
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Release date: By 25 April, 2006


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## potterfan77 (Nov 29, 2007)

I am a sheriff's deputy at a county jail in Idaho and so I am always around the types of people that would break into a house or try to cause trouble somewhere else.  If it were my house that was getting broke into I would probably handle it different than the average person because I have the training and authority to arrest the  person on site. I am also familiar with the Idaho "Use of Force" laws so I am bound by different restrictions, but if I felt that my family's or my personal safety were threatened then I would put 2 bullets into the chest. If they were still advancing then they would receive 2 bullets to the head.


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## ares (Dec 2, 2007)

As for me. If a intruder breaks into my home, he will never see the light of day again. I would rather go to jail then to see what would've happened to my family if I didn't do something. 
In strange law news: A would be criminal broke into a family's home through the garage. He couldn't get into the house and was locked in the garage. (the family was on a week long vacation) All the family had in the garage was dog food and soda. When the family came home the man was arrested. He sued (and won). He sued for emotional distress for being locked in the garage. How's that for justice.


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## diamondbar1971 (Dec 2, 2007)

I live in Missouri and we have a very good intruder law...you can dust em and without fear of being sued by the intruder if they should survive and at the same time no relatives or any other concerned person(s) can sue for any reason whatsoever....this is the way it should be everywhere, period, and then there would be less breakin's...


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## KempoGuy06 (Dec 3, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Self defense to the extreme max. Here in Texas a man shot some intruder while breaking into there home after he shot him the intruder sued him for doing damge that was permanmemt to him. The convict won a judgement of some small amout of money but I find the distrubing, I know somebody ever breaks into my house I would differently try my best to do alot of damage, who really knows why he is there in the first place. What would everybody do?


I agree, if someone breaks into my house that automatically says to me that they intend to do harm to me or my family, so my first instinct is to cause them harm before they have a chane to do the same to me.

B


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