# Heres My Story!!!!



## DAC..florida (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm 28 years old and have been studying TKD since i was 7 for about the first ten years of my training was with the same instructor......

This instructor told his students and parents he was a 9th degree BB certified in the kukkiwon ect..

Also that all students would be certified in the kukkiwon and other korean based organizations ect.

After being challenged by some members of this forum and in turn sharing some certificates of mine with them, I began to question his credability. After weeks of research and hard work I found out that my WTF, and other certificates were fake and that none of the TKD based oranizations that I asked never even heard of him, My parents and myself have spent alot of money and put alot of trust into this man to find out that he is a fraud and all of my training has gone unrecognized and that all the money I had spent went into his pocket rather than these organizations.

I am currently involved with a school that has a wide broad of students and instructors, one of my peers is a certified 4th degree BB with the Kukkiwon and is going to work with me on hopefully trying to straiten up this mess even though I was bamboozled by this guy at least he did teach us TKD and I have continued to train with others over the years.

Not every instructor I have trained under is a fraud my ranking in HKD is valid and I'm also an instructor in a self defence based school and that ranking is also valid.

I do want to thank this forum and some of its members for helping me open my eyes to this, not all of you did it with tact or proffesionalism but you did it and it busted a fraud for me. Call me nieve or to trusting but I never would have researched this without this forums members and there relentless (attacks) on my credentials.
  :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian:


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## Jill666 (Jun 15, 2003)

Your art is still yours, as is your body and skill. That is no more or less valid than it was yesterday-

"That's all I have to say about that" -Forrest Gump

Except to wish you luck in your continuing journey. 
:asian:


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## RyuShiKan (Jun 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> * After weeks of research and hard work I found out that my WTF, and other certificates were fake and that none of the TKD based oranizations that I asked never even heard of him, My parents and myself have spent alot of money and put alot of trust into this man to find out that he is a fraud and all of my training has gone unrecognized and that all the money I had spent went into his pocket rather than these organizations. *



It sucks doesnt it.
The first teacher I had was the same way.




> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> * I do want to thank this forum and some of its members for helping me open my eyes to this, not all of you did it with tact or proffesionalism but you did it and it busted a fraud for me. Call me nieve or to trusting but I never would have researched this without this forums members and there relentless (attacks) on my credentials.
> *



Hey, I resemble that remark.
But hey........I was never running for playmate of the month anyway


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## Kirk (Jun 16, 2003)

Sorry to hear about it, but glad you found out, and can keep 
others from making the same mistake.  I still believe that an
organization is no proof of the skills, but you should get what
you're paying for.


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## tonbo (Jun 16, 2003)

Jill made a great point.  Okay, so the instructor was a jerk, and you put some money in the wrong direction......but you did learn some TKD, which means that your certifications in the future should turn out just fine.

If nothing else, you learned martial arts, and also learned about more business-oriented martial arts, namely, how to defend yourself against a slick-talking liar....... 

Glad to hear that you at least found out about your instructor before you were soaked for any more.

Good luck with your future endeavors!!

Peace--


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## A.R.K. (Jun 18, 2003)

Fortunately there will be a happy ending to this story.  

I have three assistant Instructors, DAC is one of them and Disco is another.  The third does not have time unfortunately to participate on this board.  It looks as though we will not have any difficulty in getting DAC the proper recognition he deserves in his TKD discipline, although at a Dan grading more in line with age requirements.  Probably 3rd.

It will be his choice were he would like to register, Kukkiwon, ITF, WIF etc.  Either way, or in combination it will be official.  I personally lean towards the WIF rather than Kukkiwon for reasons I've stated in past threads.  However, who knows?  Maybe I will pursue my Master's certification through Kukkiwon at some point.  

DAC is a good man and an invaluable Instructor.  He also holds a 2nd Dan in Hapkido and I have ranked him at 4th Dan in A.R.K.

:asian:


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## DAC..florida (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by A.R.K. _
> *Fortunately there will be a happy ending to this story.
> 
> I have three assistant Instructors, DAC is one of them and Disco is another.  The third does not have time unfortunately to participate on this board.  It looks as though we will not have any difficulty in getting DAC the proper recognition he deserves in his TKD discipline, although at a Dan grading more in line with age requirements.  Probably 3rd.
> ...


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 18, 2003)

If your "fake" instructor got you to train, strive to be better, and work hard for your rank. I say he wasn't all bad. If credentials were what you wanted well you got screwed but as you have learned, the basics can be taught by just about anybody.


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## DAC..florida (Jun 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Touch'O'Death _
> *If your "fake" instructor got you to train, strive to be better, and work hard for your rank. I say he wasn't all bad. If credentials were what you wanted well you got screwed but as you have learned, the basics can be taught by just about anybody. *







I worked my but off for ten years with this guy and paid alot of money to be kukkiwan and wtf certified, I have earned my rank and have since tested with other instructors for my current rank.

I'm not saying I received nothing from this man I did recieve valuable training, but I also was lied to and decieved into inflated rank that I had no bussiness claiming to begin with and thats not the only issue he pulled the wool over my eyes on.

Rank and organizations is not as important to me as the training!
but if you tell someone that the thousands of dollars in belt testing fees is going to the kukkiwan and the WTF and even go as far as to make up fake certificates to give to students, that is a fraud I'm not saying he knows nothing and cant teach just that the organizations that he says gave him his ranking never heard of him and that he is deceiving his students with thier ranking.


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 18, 2003)

I agree that you were financialy duped and wronged on the credentials department. I'm just saying that the last ten years were not a total waste. You Know... The glass is half full. Of course I come from an art that does not require a lineage any more. Its still considered important to some, but its only as meaningfull as one wants to make it. Don't get me wrong I'm a second generation Ed Parker BB, but life goes on and its up to each individual to train as "100% realistic" as you can.(to steel your words)


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## Jay Bell (Jun 19, 2003)

> The first teacher I had was the same way.



Ditto...chin up, swallow the pride and move on.  As odd as it sounds, it's a GREAT learning experiance..


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## lonekimono (Jun 19, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear about this, i know someone that is doing the same thing right now.
but he will have to pay the piper one day and like your  teacher he will have to put up or shut up.
but as for you  i will leave you with this

                  "know what you know, know why it's so"

                                      ED PARKER.:asian: :asian:


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## Shuri-te (Jun 20, 2003)

DAC

You know rank is a relatively new concept historically. It comes from Japan and it is important to know that the Japanese culture is very hierarchical, especially when compared to American culture. In the 1900s, as Koreans and Okinawans went to Japan to study and train, this concept of rank was introduced to Korean and Okinawan systems.  

The historical record shows karate and it's Chinese predecessor arts are hundreds of years old, so the notion of rank has been a part of our heritage for only a fraction of their existence.  Some Koreans claim their art is much older yet, so rank could be a very recent innovation, at least from a historical point of view.

I am not sure of the whole story here, but it is said that Funakoshi, the first Okinawan to bring karate to Japan (at least in a big way), never formally promoted beyond 5th dan. (I have heard this many times, but have never seen an authentic historical source) If that is the bar to measure by, then 3rd dan is a really high accomplishment.

I recognize that rank is important to many of us to one extent or another. But the historical goal of training in the art is to train. For you, I recognize you got burned here, because the guy lied, and you paid for rank (outside of what you paid for training), that was misrepresented, and that really sucks.

But if you trained hard for all these years, you have something nobody can take away, and if you enjoyed what you learned, and the environment you learned it in, nobody can take that away either.

From your dedication to the art, you seem to be someone who may well be committed for the long haul. And I believe that for a person like you, in the long haul, it will be the training, not the rank that will be all that matters. 

During your years in the future, your students and your peers and you yourself will recognize your ability. That is the recognition that really means something. If your Kukkiwon rank is not recognized in Korea by some group of people you will likely never meet, I am not sure, 20 or 30 years from now, that you will really care all that much. Just my guess.


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## DAC..florida (Jun 20, 2003)

All very good advise here, and much appreciated. As i stated earlier I have all ready moved on and since have been ranked by an other instructor.
As far as rank I wouldnt even care if I wasnt teaching, rank is not that important to me its what you can do that impresses me. I have met and spared against people in higher rank that were not in higher skill.


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## Rick Tsubota (Jun 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Shuri-te _
> *DAC
> 
> You know rank is a relatively new concept historically. It comes from Japan and it is important to know that the Japanese culture is very hierarchical, especially when compared to American culture. In the 1900s, as Koreans and Okinawans went to Japan to study and train, this concept of rank was introduced to Korean and Okinawan systems.
> ...




Funakoshi was promoted to the rank of 5th dan by the old Butokukai based in Kyoto Japan. His student Konishi was a member through his rank in Kendo and asked the Butokukai if they might give him some rank. Funakoshi was actually very old when he got 5th dan.
This is a point where Okinawan culture and Jpanese culture are ver different.
In Okinawa we never used to have rank because you knew something or you didn't and rank was not a good way to test skill. We Okinawans usually just fought to find out our skill level. If you won maybe your skill was ok, if lose then maybe need more work.
Japanese like to have status and higher and lower people so they like to have ranks to make themselves higher than others. 
I am 51 but my teacher is younger than me. Itrained with his teacher before he did and got shodan (he is a 4th dan) so in Japanese way of thinking I started earlier so I am his sempai, but his skill is better than mine so I consider him my sempai. He never treats me as a kohai but always very respectfully and more like a sempai. He has said to me he can't see me as a kohai. In this respect he has a very Okinawan way of doing things. In Okinawa we try to treat all fellow students with respect and like everybody same.


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## DAC..florida (Jun 30, 2003)

Its all good, everything ended up working out and I did learn a valuble lesson.
:asian:


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