# Storms



## Rob_Broad (Jul 31, 2002)

What is your favorite "Storm" technique in American kenpo and why?


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## arnisador (Nov 4, 2002)

Is the club in storm a literal stick, or a club-like use of the fist?

Kenpo Terminology:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3295


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 4, 2002)

I'm not quite sure that I would have a favorite. My pick would be Securing, or Obstructing. Those are two good techniques.


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## Elfan (Nov 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Is the club in storm a literal stick, or a club-like use of the fist?
> 
> ...



Literally a stick or club like environmental weapons (chair, base ball bat, big rock, beer bottle etc.)


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## arnisador (Nov 4, 2002)

Ah, this is defending against one, not using one, then.


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## Les (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Ah, this is defending against one, not using one, then. *



Thats right, 'storm' denotes a technique where you will dedend yourself against an attack with a club, or club like weapon, as already stated.

While this will usually be an overhead attack, it could also be a roundhouse or thrusting attack.

In the AKKI, we use the term 'tempest' to indicate a club technique that is offensive, rather than defensive.

The AKKI Club Syllabus (1st Level) can be viewed on my website,  http://www.americankenpo.co.uk

Les


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## brianhunter (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Ah, this is defending against one, not using one, then. *



Well in form 7 arent there are actually storm techniques that are attacks?!!?!?!?

Anyone??


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## tarabos (Nov 5, 2002)

returning and defying the storm, because to me they seem a bit more realistic and effective than the others. a bit more violent as well.

i also feel more comfortable with them.


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## brianhunter (Nov 5, 2002)

I would have to say defying as well!I like the arm break you can slip in


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## Elfan (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *Well in form 7 arent there are actually storm techniques that are attacks?!!?!?!?
> 
> Anyone?? *



Could you clairfy what you mean? Form 7 is the 2 stick form and thus of cource you are using sticks to attack.


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## brianhunter (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> 
> *Could you clairfy what you mean? Form 7 is the 2 stick form and thus of cource you are using sticks to attack. *



right but Im asking isn't the form broken down into technique names?? Like Five Stoms??


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## True2Kenpo (Nov 5, 2002)

I think my favorite storm techniques in the Kenpo system would be Obstructing the Storm and Circling the Storm.

I like Obstructing because it is very quick and to the point.  It also teaches about crossing the center-line, etc...

I like Circling the Storm because it is a bit of a challenge.  Always like the challenging ones! 

Respectfully In Kenpo,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh


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## tarabos (Nov 5, 2002)

hey rob...you never told us your favorite...


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> 
> *Could you clairfy what you mean? Form 7 is the 2 stick form and thus of cource you are using sticks to attack. *



Hi Folks!
I hate the use of the term "stick" to describe a Club. Mr. Parker used the term "club" because it had a more violent and dangerous connotation. 
I'm reminded of George Carlin's famous comparsion between football and baseball "in football, you use a HELMET, in baseball, you wear a CAP!" well..."In arnis, you use a stick! in kenpo, you weild a CLUB!" as I always use for the motto of AKWS [American Kenpo Weapons Systems] "you STICK them with a KNIFE and you CLUB them to DEATH"
...such a lovely phrase.
So, in closing, please refrain from using the term "stick" when refering to the "club" defenses and attacks.
:::getting off my soapbox now::::soapbox: 
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE


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## Elfan (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Hi Folks!
> I hate the use of the term "stick" to describe a Club. Mr. Parker used the term "club" because it had a more violent and dangerous connotation.
> ...



I usually, when I can remember, use the term "club" to refer to anything that you can club someone with.  A log, shovel, chair, the mini speaker by my PC etc.  I use the term "stick" to refer to the custum made clubs that are designed for hurting people.  That make sense?


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## Rob_Broad (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Hi Folks!
> I hate the use of the term "stick" to describe a Club. Mr. Parker used the term "club" because it had a more violent and dangerous connotation.
> ...



Tell us more about the American kenpo Weapons System


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## Rob_Broad (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> 
> *hey rob...you never told us your favorite... *



 I guess my favourite storm technique would be Calming the Storm, it is simple and effective.


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## arnisador (Nov 5, 2002)

In FMA stick often means sword. We think of it as if it were a bladed weapon.

Dr. Gyi says overwhelmingly these types of attack are made with a shovel or similar implement.


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## satans.barber (Nov 5, 2002)

I like Clipping the Storm personally, chance for some fast handwork, street applicable and end in a sweep, always a good combination!

Brian in our club has a way of doing Returning the Storm, where instead of ending with the roundhouse kick, he just bears down on your arm until you go face first into the floor, that always seem to work exceptionally well, although it's dis-orientating to experience at speed!

Ian.


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## Les (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *I like Clipping the Storm personally, chance for some fast handwork, street applicable and end in a sweep, always a good combination!   Ian. *



Aren't all of your techniques 'street applicable' then?   

Les


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Ah, this is defending against one, not using one, then. *



Hi Arnisador!
To answer your question and elaborate on the thread, 
there are several techniques that are Club defenses in Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate [EPAKK] They are as follows:
1. Checking the storm [vs Front right step through overhead club]
(Yellow tech 7)
2. Evading the storm [vs Front right overhead club]
(purple tech 7)
3. Calming the storm [vs front right roundhouse club]
(purple tech 13)
4. Obstructing the storm [Front right overhead club]
(purple tech 19)
5. Defying the storm [front right roundhouse club]
(blue tech 7)
6. Returning storm [right roundhouse and backhand club]
(blue tech 14)
7. Brushing the storm [right flank overhead club]
(green tech 7)
8. Capturing the storm [front right overhead club]
(green tech 14)
9. securing the storm [front right roundhouse club]
(green tech 19)
10. Clipping the storm [front right thrusting club]
(green tech 22)
11. escape form the storm [right flank overhead club]
(second brown tech 7)
12. Circling the storm [front right club poke]
(second brown tech 13]

on many of these techniques, you not only disarm the opponent [part of the DSCD or divert,sieze,control, disarm formula] either by technique or by pain.
but you also use the club on your opponent in different ways to teach the student basic club technique.


I hope that I was of some service,
Joseph P. Rebelo II
KENPOJOE

:::getting off my soapbox now::::soapbox:


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> 
> *Tell us more about the American kenpo Weapons System *



The American Kenpo Weapons System is a format to organize the various weapon basics,techniques, sets and forms in the syllabus of Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate [EPAKK]. it focuses upon cataloging the all the various aspects of the different weapons and where those elements came from and how they were transfered into the present EPAKK system. This includes the staff,nunchaku,single and double club, single and double knives, and firearms. It also encompasses personal preferences that Mr Parker had on certain weapons as well. It also researches weapon sets and techniques that were previously in the system that were later deleted. [such as the belt and samurai sword and other chinese weaponry]

Nice to here from you,Rob!
did you ever get those rockers for your "idea" for a "kenpo whore" group?
Thought the idea was hilarious at the time!
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
:::getting off my soapbox now::: :soapbox:


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## Rob_Broad (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Nice to here from you,Rob!
> did you ever get those rockers for your "idea" for a "kenpo whore" group?
> ...



The website and rockers got put to the wayside after certain seniors voiced their objections over the name I had chosen.  Although it may re-surface.  If it does you will be one of the fisrt to be contacted and I will send you a set of shoulder rockers.


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## arnisador (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *but you also use the club on your opponent in different ways to teach the student basic club technique.*



Thanks for the info. on what attacks they are defenses against and for this! We teach that in the FMA of course--use it against them if you get it away from them--but I'm surprised all the time that other arts don't.


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Thanks for the info. on what attacks they are defenses against and for this! We teach that in the FMA of course--use it against them if you get it away from them--but I'm surprised all the time that other arts don't. *



The attacks are quoted after the name of the techniques. I'm well aware of the FMA approach having studied modern arnis,arnis lanada,arnis abanico lapunti, cerrada escrima,Kali, and silat as well!
My favorite filipino MA phrase:
" there is no greater feeling than when someone attacks you with a weapon, and you take it away from them and HIT THEM WITH IT!"
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
:::BTW, i'm now offically a "Martialtalk.com" yellowbelt! WOOHOO!
 
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com

http://members.aol.com/kenpojoe/


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## Klondike93 (Nov 6, 2002)

Calming the Storm - pretty simple and works well for punches right hooks too.


:asian:


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## satans.barber (Nov 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Les _
> 
> *Aren't all of your techniques 'street applicable' then?
> 
> Les *



Well, what I meant is that whilst they all have some _ideas_ in that you can use in the street, a lot are too long to use in full. That's fine, but I do like the ones that are short enough and concise enough that maybe they could be used in full, such as Clipping the Storm, Lone Kimono etc...which is why they're my favourites.

I also think that some of the techniques don't maintain enough control over the person to be used in a practical street situation. 

If you take something like, say, thrusting prongs or striking serpent's head, when the attacker is in close and you can work closely with them, there's a tendency not to drift away from them, and you can keep the distance correct. This is also true of the ones that work off a grab of some kind, as you can maintian contact (through a pin or counter-grab maybe).

A few of the techniques though, Shield and Sword springing to mind, seem to rely more on the person standing there and being hit, which wouldn't really happen. There is some control through the checks, but I really don't think people would stand like that in the street, they'd either turn around and lay into you, move away or fall over!

Actually, having just read down my list of techniques I don't think I can cite any other examples of this lack of control, so it's possible that I'm just not doing that technique quite right! hehe

Ian.


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## roryneil (Nov 6, 2002)

I always liked Evading the Storm. That ankle break at the end is awesome.


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 6, 2002)

I really enjoy the thunder and lightening strikes.

:asian:


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## jeffkyle (Nov 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *I really enjoy the thunder and lightening strikes.
> 
> :asian: *



Funny!    :rofl:


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by roryneil _
> 
> *I always liked Evading the Storm. That ankle break at the end is awesome. *



Actually, rory, there are three alternate endings to "evading the storm" based on reactionary positioning...

1. after pivoting into the right forward bow and executing the Left horizontal thrust to the opponent's right floating ribs, you execute a left front knee to the outside of the oponent's leg at the quadricep area. Then, immediately hop onto the left leg as you execute a right roundhouse knee to the front of the opponent's right quadricep.

2. in the second variation, the first knee strike causes the opponent's leg to buckle and fold, so that you pivot into a left close kneel on top of your opponent's buckled lower leg,crushing the ankle and tearing out the opponent's achilles tendon as well.

3. in the third Variation, the opponent goes all the way onto a kneeling position due to the frist knee strike and you leap into the air into the above mentioned Left close kneeling stance,adding gravitational marrige or marrige of gravity into the dropping of stance,adding in all of your body weight on the vertical plane and crushing opponent's ankle,calf and achilles tendon.

I hope that I was of some service!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
:::getting off my soapbox now::::soapbox: 
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
http://members.aol.com/kenpojoe/


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## jeffkyle (Nov 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Actually, rory, there are three alternate endings to "evading the storm" based on reactionary positioning...
> 
> ...




Painful...But helpful!!!


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## rmcrobertson (Nov 7, 2002)

This is specifically in regard to the comments about liking some kenpo techniques such as "Thrusting Prongs," and "Striking Serpent's Head," on grounds of their offering oodles of control, while dislking--and disagreeing, if I read right--with "Shield and Sword," because it seems to a) offer no control, b) be silly to expect the opponent not to move.

I'm afraid that this isn't an accurate description of "Shield and Sword," and also represents a basic misunderstnding of what this technique does, how the tech is properly dummied/how the opponent is expected to react, and what kenpo techniques do. (But other than that, I've no complaints...)

Let's take the opponent's reactions first, since I had a lot of trouble seeing this. What got pointed out, on various levels (Rick Jeffcoat emphasized the initial block as a check, Manny emphasized the rolling/checking elbow with the step-off, Mr. Tatum showed me that the various "pointless" moves of the technique stand as progressive responses to the opponent's attempts), is that this technique lays out a pattern of adaptation to the opponent's attempts to pivot into you, and so get back into the fight. No, they don't just stand there. That's why the step-off with the left "waiter's check" follows the inward elbow. Properly done and dummied--at least on my level--the technique looks like a bit of two man set, as the defender and attacker progressively wheel about one another. Or more exactly, the former wheels and the latter tries to...


One way to see this, the way that helped me: look at Five Swords, and ask what each strike responds to, what each strike is meant to check. Too often, we don't move as dummies, or we completely forestall responses so that we can't follow the next's move's logic...then, go back to Shield and Sword, a really sweet technique, and ask: what is the opponent doing, that this piece of the technique is put there to counter/to set up the next strike?

I'm afraid it's a common misunderstanding, one I often fall prey to as a teacher. The techs have to be taught "statically," and yet kenpo's self-defense techs are not static. The checks don't last forever. The zones, particularly of sanctuary, don't persist. But they have to be shown statically, practiced statically, at first anyway...the "solid," phase is essential to learning, and I might add (it's a point Mr. Tatum often makes) it is a mistake to think that the "gaseous" phase is more advanced than the liquid, the liquid more sophisticated or necessarily more effective than the solid. But they all move, and for good reasons...


Thanks,
Robert


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## Michael Billings (Nov 7, 2002)

I appreciate your post and also get tired of "favorite technique" posts, or "don't work" posts.  Betcha a dollar you can make all of them work, or pieces of them in the appropriate situations.  

I also think Shield and Sword is an effective technique, at least as taught to me by my teachers.  And over the 15 or so years I have played with it, it has only gotten better.  Love all the suppressing checks and strikes, whether with upper case or lower case weapons.

I can tear any technique apart as can anyone, but before you do, I suggest really digging into it and seeing if instead it teaches principles, concepts, or theories not found elsewhere, and if it you don't see any, see if maybe the arrangement is different.  I maintain that so long as you move correctly, applying the appropriate strike to the appropriate target, with the necessary force - then you are doing Kenpo.  The techniques just give us a unique framework to pattern motion into, with the ultimate aim of not thinking, but reacting appropriately.

Oos,
-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Brother John (Nov 8, 2002)

It's quick, simple, direct, brutal, effective and the way it ends leaves a great deal of versatility to graft/suffix or excape.
It's great.

Your brother (who likes knives a bit more than clubs)
John


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## Les (Nov 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Brother John _
> 
> *It's quick, simple, direct, brutal, effective and the way it ends leaves a great deal of versatility to graft/suffix or excape.
> It's great.
> ...



I also like Eye of the Storm, but I feel it is a bit too much for it's position in the syllabus structure.

Mind you, it does give a nice 'taster' for one of the themes of the Blue belt syllabus.

Brother John is right though, it is quick, simple, direct, brutal, and effective.

Les


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## M F (Nov 11, 2002)

Les,
Is it the idea of moving inside of the attack that seems a little too advanced?  I can see your point, if this is what you're talking about, but I also think that this takes advantage of the natural tendency(at least mine) to cover up(both hands covering what the stick is aimed at).  This simplifies it a lot, but I hope you know what I mean.


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## KENPOJOE (Nov 11, 2002)

Hi Folks!
This post is directed at the AKKI folks who go on about "eye of the storm", would you be so kind as to detail out the technique so some of us "less fortunate" kenpoists can respond to your opinions? After all, Mr. Mills does require AKKI members to learn the IKKA curriculum, so I know that you have the good grasp of the EPAKK techniques, but people like me aren't so fortunate. Any help in the matter would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time,
KENPOJOE
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
http://members.aol.com/KENPOJOE/
:::getting off mysoapbox now::::soapbox:


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## Brother John (Nov 12, 2002)

Hi Mr. Rebelo!

Nothin super secret about it really and I doubt you are "Less fortunate", just not in the AKKI.
The attack is right handed downward/inward swing with a club.
The response: (in very simplified terms)
step into the attacker at 12:00, RNB
left block to attackers r/wrist (the method of execution is somewhere between an extended outward block and an upward block, ducking the head in toward the attackers face to avoid the club reorbiting.
R-thrusting backknuckle to the r-eye or cheek-bone.
R-inward elbow to solar plexus
R-rear hammer to groin as you turn to a R-reverse bow.
cover out.

the back-knuckle / elbow / hammerfist happen is very quick succession.
The finer points/MOE of the technique would be tricky to write out, but I could show you If ever I had the pleasure of meeting you.
:asian: 

Your Brother
John

PS: 


> After all, Mr. Mills does require AKKI members to learn the IKKA curriculum


Not quite sure what you mean really.
I never learned the IKKA curriculum, it was never required. I do know a good deal of it, but the only curriculum taught in an AKKI school is the AKKI curriculum.
Not wanting to sound argumentative with you Joe, but I was wondering where you got your info on what the AKKI does???
Thanks bro...


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## satans.barber (Nov 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rmcrobertson _
> 
> *
> I'm afraid that this isn't an accurate description of "Shield and Sword," and also represents a basic misunderstnding of what this technique does, how the tech is properly dummied/how the opponent is expected to react, and what kenpo techniques do. (But other than that, I've no complaints...)
> ...



Knowing that that's how the technique is meant to work, it makes more sense now; nobody's ever explained it like that to me.

As I've often said, if something seems really wrong to me, it's usually because I'm doing it wrong!

Thanks, 

Ian.

p.s. I really you posted that days and days ago......haven't got time to sh*te at the moment I'm afraid!


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