# question about an old wing chun book



## Kwan Sau (Jun 2, 2015)

Apologies if this has been discussed in years gone by; but does anyone know where randy williams received the bulk of his knowledge from? Specifically, back in the 80's (I think) one could purchase a six book set where he outlines a lot of wing chun knowledge, drills, skills, forms, training, etc. I have heard/read that he studied under more than one Sifu / lineage but wondering which one taught him the most? 
There is a section in the books on gerk jongs and mui fa posts, did he learn that stuff from his time in the HKM / Fong lineage or this Greg Yao person(?). Thanks.


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 2, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> Apologies if this has been discussed in years gone by; but does anyone know where randy williams received the bulk of his knowledge from? Specifically, back in the 80's (I think) one could purchase a six book set where he outlines a lot of wing chun knowledge, drills, skills, forms, training, etc. I have heard/read that he studied under more than one Sifu / lineage but wondering which one taught him the most?
> There is a section in the books on gerk jongs and mui fa posts, did he learn that stuff from his time in the HKM / Fong lineage or this Greg Yao person(?). Thanks.


__________________________________________________________________
I will try my best not to get into trouble and try to respond to your question to the best of my ability.
Yao wasa cook at a Chinese restaurant in Phoenix and learned the slt from Augustine Fong's book>RW met Yao and then went down to Tucson and briefly camped out at Fong sifu's school and worked out with
Manny Vasques a student of Fong. RW moved to Singapore-invited Fong once for a seminar and then began to offer videos via Indide KF's Unique Publications and published books. He basically imitated Fong's poses
and developed good quality photographs of himself in the books. He is good at marketing. You can see RW chisaoing with
Obassi on youtube. This is reallya media age but best to careful about jumping to conclusions about what one sees.Enough.


----------



## Kwan Sau (Jun 2, 2015)

Thanks Joy. Yeah, no jumping to conclusions or intentions of wanting to start any sort of disagreements or arguments / lineage wars etc on my part. Just genuinely curious as to where he learned those two things. They are rare components of WC as far as I know. Anyway, thank you for the response!


----------



## KPM (Jun 2, 2015)

I can back up what Joy says.  I was around back then and heard Manny tell stories about Randy Williams' visits to Tucson.  From what I remember, Fong Sifu was involved at some level in that first series of books put out in Singapore but there was some kind of disagreement between them and Williams cut him out completely with little to no credit given.

But I do think Williams spent more quality time with Fong Sifu than what Joy seems to suggest in his post.  The Mui Fa Jong stuff was definitely from Fong.

And I will say, that Williams' series of books were the best Wing Chun series out there at the time, and even today the only ones I've seen that come close to the quality and comprehensiveness are the ones by Wayne Belanoha.


----------



## Kwan Sau (Jun 3, 2015)

Thanks for the reply KPM!


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 3, 2015)

KPM said:


> I can back up what Joy says.  I was around back then and heard Manny tell stories about Randy Williams' visits to Tucson.  From what I remember, Fong Sifu was involved at some level in that first series of books put out in Singapore but there was some kind of disagreement between them and Williams cut him out completely with little to no credit given.
> 
> But I do think Williams spent more quality time with Fong Sifu than what Joy seems to suggest in his post.  The Mui Fa Jong stuff was definitely from Fong.
> 
> And I will say, that Williams' series of books were the best Wing Chun series out there at the time, and even today the only ones I've seen that come close to the quality and comprehensiveness are the ones by Wayne Belanoha.


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 3, 2015)

Involved... more quality time? Imagination at work.


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 3, 2015)

KPM said:


> I can back up what Joy says.  I was around back then and heard Manny tell stories about Randy Williams' visits to Tucson.  From what I remember, Fong Sifu was involved at some level in that first series of books put out in Singapore but there was some kind of disagreement between them and Williams cut him out completely with little to no credit given.
> 
> But I do think Williams spent more quality time with Fong Sifu than what Joy seems to suggest in his post.  The Mui Fa Jong stuff was definitely from Fong.
> 
> And I will say, that Williams' series of books were the best Wing Chun series out there at the time, and even today the only ones I've seen that come close to the quality and comprehensiveness are the ones by Wayne Belanoha.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Involved"? "more quality time"/ Imagination at work.
I gave away my copy of the Belanoha book.


----------



## KPM (Jun 3, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> Involved... more quality time? Imagination at work.


 
I wouldn't have expected anything less from you Joy as far as a response!   Its really getting kind of old.  Seems you are the ONLY one that has ANY kind of worthiness to speak on anything concerning Fong or Ho Kam Ming.  Geez!  

 Yes, I WAS involved!  That was when I was making trips to Tucson to train with Fong Sifu in person.  I spent a little time hanging out with Manny as well.   Quality time?  Yes!  It should be obvious from anyone looking at Randy Williams that he is pretty good!  And I don't think he got that from George Yao!  I could be wrong, but I tend to give Fong Sifu the credit.


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 3, 2015)

KPM said:


> I wouldn't have expected anything less from you Joy as far as a response!   Its really getting kind of old.  Seems you are the ONLY one that has ANY kind of worthiness to speak on anything concerning Fong or Ho Kam Ming.  Geez!
> 
> Yes, I WAS involved!  That was when I was making trips to Tucson to train with Fong Sifu in person.  I spent a little time hanging out with Manny as well.   Quality time?  Yes!  It should be obvious from anyone looking at Randy Williams that he is pretty good!  And I don't think he got that from George Yao!  I could be wrong, but I tend to give Fong Sifu the credit.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an authority. Fong sifu is his own authority. Hangng out with Manny gives you hanging out with Manny. RW's attempt at imitating Fong sifu is just that- an imitation.


----------



## Kwan Sau (Jun 3, 2015)

Gents, it was not my intention to have another thread descend into the chasm. I was simply curious as to where RW learned the Mui Fa... it appears from Vaj & KPM that he learned it via the HKM lineage. Thanks again.


----------



## KPM (Jun 3, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I am not an authority. Fong sifu is his own authority. Hangng out with Manny gives you hanging out with Manny. RW's attempt at imitating Fong sifu is just that- an imitation.



Holy Moly!  The irony of it all!  ;-)   "I am not an authority"....."but I will weigh in on every comment or conversation pertaining to the Fong lineage and tell you all that you are wrong!"    Yes, hanging out with Manny gives me hanging out with Manny....and hearing his stories about when Randy Williams came to train.  That's all I ever claimed.  Imitating Fong....isn't that how a student learns from the teacher?  Wouldn't an observer be able to watch you practicing your Wing Chun and see a lot of  Fong's movement?  Wouldn't an observer recognize what you are doing as Fong lineage?  Is that "imitating" or is that "learning"?    I would think that telling Williams that he looked a lot like Fong when he moved would be a compliment....wouldn't it????  Doesn't Fong have good movement?


----------



## Vajramusti (Jun 3, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> Gents, it was not my intention to have another thread descend into the chasm. I was simply curious as to where RW learned the Mui Fa... it appears from Vaj & KPM that he learned it via the HKM lineage. Thanks again.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont intend to comment any further on your original question.


----------



## Jens (Jun 9, 2015)

Randy williams podcast Episode 22 - Interview with Randy Williams - Hiyaa Martial Arts Podcast


----------



## KPM (Jun 9, 2015)

Jens said:


> Randy williams podcast Episode 22 - Interview with Randy Williams - Hiyaa Martial Arts Podcast



Any notable information?  I don't have an hour and a half to spend listening to it.


----------

