# More newbie questions



## Tiger Steals Heart (Apr 27, 2005)

Hi everyone, I posted this in a forum on a different website but didn't receive a lot of replies. Someone suggested that I post here. 

A little background on myself: I've studied a Chinese style for 4 years, and I enjoy it but want to train in a more practical system. I read about a few different styles and Kenpo stood out to me. A few days ago, I went to visit a Kenpo school. I was very impressed with the class, and the instructor seemed very professional, athletic and highly skilled. He also had a friendly personality which, having trained with Sifus in the past who were almost as bad as Catholic school nuns, I found very refreshing. 

Still, I want to check out at least one other Kenpo school just to compare. I found another kenpo school here, but they teach Hawaiian kenpo. What is the difference (if any) between Ed Parker's American Kenpo and Hawaiian Kenpo? I read the Mr. Parker was from Hawaii so I am curious if the "Hawaiian" kenpo school might teach more along the lines of what he learned first, before transforming it into his own style of American kenpo? Would the techniques taught at both schools be similar? 

I also have a question regarding kenpo organizations. The school that I visited is an A.K.K.S. affiliated school. He used to be part of the Larry Tatum organization but for some reason switched to A.K.K.S. I know there are many other kenpo organizations around. Would a school belonging to one organization stay closer to Ed Parker's techniques and methods than a school from a different organization? Or is it just politics and has nothing really to do with how the system is taught?

I hope some of you with more Kenpo experience will be able to answer, and thanks in advance for your help.:idunno:


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2005)

First off, welcome to the forum! :ultracool 

Its good that you're taking the time to research the schools in your area.  This IMHO is very important for many reasons.  I suggest, if you already haven't, to watch a class or 2 in each school, and find out if you can take a trial class.  Talk to the other students there, as well as the instructor.  Make sure you you ask questions and find out as much as you can about the schools.  After you've done this, make your choice on what suits you best.  Ultiamtely, its you that has to decide.

As for the differences.  If you look closely, you may see slight differences/variations in the way things are done.  Depending on lineage, you may also see slight differences.  Keep in mind though, that this is not always a bad thing.

Good luck on your search. :ultracool 

Mike


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## Rick Wade (Apr 27, 2005)

I also recommed telling us where you live there is a wealth of information here on the forum and we pretty much have the country covered.  Alot of the seniors can make pretty good recommendations as far as instructors goes.

V/R

Rick English


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## rmcpeek (Apr 27, 2005)

Hello and Welcome!! 

If the Hawain Kenpo school you refer to is teaching the Original Traditional Kenpo that Ed Parker had learned and initially taught himself, prior to American Kenpo being formed, by him, then you will see significant differences. 

In now way am I stating anything here to be offensive to any American Kenpo stylists. I myself have trained in Traditional Kenpo my whole life. My instructor, came from Grandmaster Al Tracy, who in turn came from Ed Parker when he was then teaching Traditional Kenpo.

I suggest you check the Hawaian Kenpo school out as well and then you be the judge of which seems a better fit for you.

An article I have found to be interesting:
Kenpo Vs American Kenpo
By Will Tracy
can be found here: http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/kenpovsamericankenpo.htm

Good luck and welcome again to Kenpo.


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## Tiger Steals Heart (Apr 27, 2005)

Thanks for the replies! I found a website for the Hawaiian Kenpo school, but it doesn't really give a lot of information about the style from what I could see. Here is the link: http://www.limkenpo.net/

This is a link for the school that I visited: http://www.reddragonskenpo.com/id39.htm

Oh and Mr. Wade asked where I live; I am in Phoenix, Arizona. Otherwise known as Valley of the Sunstroke. There are quite a few martial arts schools here but, I suppose as with most other cities, the majority seem to teach Tae Kwon Do.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 27, 2005)

rmcpeek said:
			
		

> Hello and Welcome!!
> 
> In now way am I stating anything here to be offensive to any American Kenpo stylists. I myself have trained in Traditional Kenpo my whole life. My instructor, came from Grandmaster Al Tracy, who in turn came from Ed Parker when he was then teaching Traditional Kenpo.
> 
> ...


 Seems like offense WAS intended if you have ever read the article you are linking to, including quotes from it like  





> "[font=Times New Roman, Times]He is intelligent, articulate and apparently honest. These are rare qualities in American Kenpo supporters."[/font]


 Disingenuous to say the least, and at the worst, well, I won't go there.  Your assumptions offend and the tone of your post contradicts the article.  I too started in a Tracy derived system, and continued through black.  It is part of my roots and I do not feel like I need to be disparaging or demean a more Chinese influenced Kenpo.  You clearly tried to steer this newby away from American Kenpo ... shame on you for not just saying it.

 -Michael
[font=Times New Roman, Times]
[/font]


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## Michael Billings (Apr 27, 2005)

Tiger Steals Heart said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies! I found a website for the Hawaiian Kenpo school, but it doesn't really give a lot of information about the style from what I could see. Here is the link: http://www.limkenpo.net/
> 
> This is a link for the school that I visited: http://www.reddragonskenpo.com/id39.htm
> 
> Oh and Mr. Wade asked where I live; I am in Phoenix, Arizona. Otherwise known as Valley of the Sunstroke. There are quite a few martial arts schools here but, I suppose as with most other cities, the majority seem to teach Tae Kwon Do.


 You may want to visit with Dennis Conatser also, as he lives there. You can link to his home page http://www.ikko.com or PM him on this board by clicking HERE.  He also maintains a Question Answer thread here on MartialTalk you can link to HERE.

  -Michael


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## rmcpeek (Apr 27, 2005)

Michael,

I in no way stated or tried to steer this person. What part of the line .. "I suggest you check the Hawaian Kenpo school out as well and then you be the judge of which seems a better fit for you." didn't you understand?

I said I found the article interesting. I didn't offer an opinion on it. 

I'm not here to get in a pissing match, although it seems you want to start one. 

Nice try.

Rich


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2005)

Tiger Steals Heart said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies! I found a website for the Hawaiian Kenpo school, but it doesn't really give a lot of information about the style from what I could see. Here is the link: http://www.limkenpo.net/
> 
> This is a link for the school that I visited: http://www.reddragonskenpo.com/id39.htm
> 
> Oh and Mr. Wade asked where I live; I am in Phoenix, Arizona. Otherwise known as Valley of the Sunstroke. There are quite a few martial arts schools here but, I suppose as with most other cities, the majority seem to teach Tae Kwon Do.


Check out Lawrence Robinson's schools he is a very knowledgable 5th degree.
Sean


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## MJS (Apr 27, 2005)

rmcpeek said:
			
		

> Michael,
> 
> I in no way stated or tried to steer this person. What part of the line .. "I suggest you check the Hawaian Kenpo school out as well and then you be the judge of which seems a better fit for you." didn't you understand?
> 
> ...



Sir-

Apparently there was a misunderstanding here.  Upon reading the article in question, it appears that there are slams against American Kenpo contained in it.  Someone new or unfamiliar with the art, may not fully understand this article or get the wrong impression.

The original poster was asking a question about Kenpo, and I think that it would be best, for the sake of discussion, to stick with the title of the thread.  

We have many options such as Email and PM that can be used.  Rather than get into a heated debate online, please feel free to use these features to address any of your concerns.

Thank you,

Mike


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## rmcrobertson (Apr 27, 2005)

Thanks for the directions to Mr. Tracy's article; he's always interesting to read. Regrettably, however, my last 14 or so years in what he disparagingly calls, "American kenpo," don't even remotely resemble anything he says it should, so I'm really not qualified to explain what the hell he's talking about. It's good to know--being an agnostic and all--that I've joined a Secret Mormon Death Cult all unknowing. It's good to know, too, that I'm wasting and have wasted my time because I'd get killed if I were stupid enough to step into a tiny lil' ring with, say, just about anybody in Pride or K-1. I'm skipping the politics--about as disentanglable as a bowl of razor-wire spaghetti--but I'm also a little mystified by the ranting, considering what he's also said about the head of my school. 

And I remain mystified about the attempt at scrubbing James Mitose--of all people!--clean. You know--documentation of lineage claims? None. Showed up on the Coast dressed like a preacher? Conspiracy to commit murder? San Quentin?

Advice to newbies: skip all this crap. Question is: are you training hard?  If you haven't quite started: does the head of the school seem decent? are the students reasonably happy and sweating? are the fees reasonable? are there any danger signs...you know, you have to wait out in the rain with a bowl of rice for a week before you can get in?


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## rmcpeek (Apr 27, 2005)

Perhaps I was mistaken in posting the article that I personally had found interesting reading is all.

I will stick with my original advice to our new friend in Kenpo, who started this thread, as I did earlier though.

"I suggest you check the Hawaian Kenpo school out as well and then you be the judge of which seems a better fit for you." 

-Rich


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## DavidCC (Apr 27, 2005)

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> You may want to visit with Dennis Conatser also, as he lives there. You can link to his home page http://www.ikko.com or PM him on this board by clicking HERE. He also maintains a Question Answer thread here on MartialTalk you can link to HERE.
> 
> -Michael


He is well respected throughout the country and if you have an opportunity to study with someone of his prestige it definitely bears looking into.

THe main difference I have seen with AK and other varieties is that AK has a LOT more vocabulary to learn!


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## Michael Billings (Apr 27, 2005)

rmcpeek said:
			
		

> Michael,
> 
> I in no way stated or tried to steer this person. What part of the line .. "I suggest you check the Hawaian Kenpo school out as well and then you be the judge of which seems a better fit for you." didn't you understand?
> 
> ...


 rmcpeek:
 As anyone can attest to on this board, I never get in "pissing matches".  If anything I go the other way, in terms of trying to smooth the waters.  Search "All Posts" by me and it will become apparent that I don't look for the controversy.  Neither will I just sit still while you provide links to detractors of Mr. Parker's Art.  My criticism was intended as an obvious interpretation of your post.  Maybe you read the article with a different bias or slant than I did.  None-the-less the impact on a newby would be significant, and your agenda, if in fact you have one, appeared to be as I stated.  

 I will leave this alone and let you have the last word if you want it.  

 Tiger Steals Heart:
 In the meantime, there is lots of Kenpo in Arizona including American, Tracy, Traco, and I am sure others.  My advice is to sit on on several classes and look for the teacher and material that suits you the best.  I did Chinese Kenpo for 7 years and then American Kenpo for the last 20+ years.  I found a home in an Art I truely love.

 Good luck in finding


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## Bode (Apr 27, 2005)

[font=Times New Roman, Times] 





> The second division, though equal in weight of importance, was the racist posture Ed Parker had taken with blacks.


 The quote comes from the article listed in previous posts. Pretty absurd. Dr. Chapel met Ed Parker in 1963 (I believe) and would call him anything but racist... 
 Statments like this are amusing. I could pick apart a persons life and put it back together to make them look like the antichrist if I had enough time and patience. Absence of the facts can lead a reader down some very dark roads. 

[/font]


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## Tiger Steals Heart (Apr 27, 2005)

Thanks again for the interesting and helpful replies! I haven't been able to read the article that Mr. Mcpeek posted yet (I'm checking here briefly from my office cubicle lol ) but will read it with an open mind. 

Mr. Billings, thank you for pointing out to me that Mr. Dennis Conatser is a resident here. No offense but as someone very new to Kenpo, I wasn't quite sure who he was but I found a website with kind of a "who's who" in Kenpo, and learned that he is one of Ed Parker's first generation students. That is very exciting to me and I will try to get in touch with Mr. Conatser and see if he would be willing to help a newcomer. On an unrelated note, I didn't know that Elvis was also a student of Ed Parker? That was interesting to learn as well. 

For what it's worth, I did manage to get in touch with the Hawaiian kenpo school and found out that they actually teach Kajukenbo (spelling?). The instructor or whomever answered at the school said that it's very different from the Parker style of kenpo. I'm sure Kajukenbo is a very good style as well, but I think for now I'll stick with checking out some of the other kenpo schools. 

Touch O' Death, you mentioned that I should check into Lawrence Robinson's school, do you have any contact info for him that you could pass along to me either here or via PM? If so I'd really appreciate it. 

I also found another Parker school here run by Bruce Tomson, who as I understand has trained under Paul Mills.  By happenstance, I found a Tracy school run by Dennis Laycock. 

I don't know anything yet about the difference between Tracy and Parker kenpo (and not trying to start any arguments about it, nor carry the original topic of my post off subject) but weren't Mr. Tracy and Ed Parker both classmates when they first learned Kenpo? Or am I misinformed about that?

Well it looks like I have my work cut out for me, both in terms of learning more about Kenpo in general as well as trying to visit some different schools and see which one I get the best "feeling" with. I can tell there is definitely a wealth of information to be learned, and many knowledgeable and friendly Kenpoka have posted here.  When I get home, I'll probably spend most of my evening just reading through all of the posts on this forum and other Kenpo websites, trying to read more about the differences/similarities in the various lineages of Kenpo. 

Thanks again and you have definitely fueled my eagerness to train in Kenpo!


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## arnisador (Apr 27, 2005)

I met Mr. Conatser. He treated me to lunch! I found him _extremely_ knowledgeable, and a very nice person. That's a winning combination in my book.

I'm heading to a seminar tomorrow evening by a Phoenix-based BJJ instructor, Wellington "Megaton" Dias. He's great too, but it's very different from Kenpo!


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 28, 2005)

Tiger Steals Heart said:
			
		

> Mr. Billings, thank you for pointing me to Dennis Conatser, who is a  resident here as well as learn that he is one of Ed Parker's first generation students.
> 
> I will try to get in touch with Mr. Conatser and see if he would be willing to help a newcomer.


 Well, thanks Michael...... I'll give you get out of pushups card at our next seminar.....LOL.

 Getting in touch is not so hard....... here I am.

 What part of the valley are you in?

 :asian:
 Dennis Conatser aka GoldenDragon7


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