# I wish I'd gotten into tactical training this early



## KenpoTex (Jul 10, 2008)

This is an 11-year-old, 80 lb. (+/-) girl who went through Tactical Response's Fighting Pistol class in Vegas several months ago.

YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #1 of #3

YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #2 of #3

and one from later in the day, or perhaps the next day (notice how much smoother her tap-rack and reloads are, and how much better she's controlling the recoil.)
YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #3 of #3

This should also be a kick in the butt for anyone who whines about Glocks not fitting their hands...If she can do it, what do you have to whine about?


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## Archangel M (Jul 10, 2008)

Damn good for her and her parents. Shes goona be formidable if she keeps at it.

The only thing Im not keen on is the gun by the head while scanning. I know why they do it. You want to scan 360 but not have the muzzle sweep the range. BUT you do as you are trained and gun by the head is bad news. Im a bigger fan of just turning the head while keeping the muzzle on the last known threat.


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## chinto (Jul 10, 2008)

hell I got my first rifle and training in its use at 5! good teach her well and she will be a good citizen!!  an armed one who is not helpless.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> Damn good for her and her parents. Shes goona be formidable if she keeps at it.
> 
> The only thing Im not keen on is the gun by the head while scanning. I know why they do it. You want to scan 360 but not have the muzzle sweep the range. BUT you do as you are trained and gun by the head is bad news. Im a bigger fan of just turning the head while keeping the muzzle on the last known threat.


 She'll catch on.  I'm sure she probably got corrected for that.  

My 5 year old daughter is going to get her first .22 rifle next year.  We'll start with the fundamentals of firearms safety.  If she takes to it, she'll have her first shotgun by 9 or 10.  Hopefully she's ready for the handgun by the time this girl is.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

chinto said:


> hell I got my first rifle and training in its use at 5! good teach her well and she will be a good citizen!! an armed one who is not helpless.


 Me too!  I grew up wandering the woods with a loaded gun.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> This is an 11-year-old, 80 lb. (+/-) girl who went through Tactical Response's Fighting Pistol class in Vegas several months ago.
> 
> YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #1 of #3
> 
> ...


 
By the way, I had to comment on the smarmy little Japanese guy commenting on America.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

Obviously the instructor is making good use of the snap-cap malfunction drills.  GLOCKS don't malfunction that often.  It's good training throwing the snap-caps in there.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

What a parent should teach a child.......



> "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, FIGHT EFFICIENTLY, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein





> "A young man should be computer literate, and moreover should know Hemingway from James Joyce. He should know how to drive a car well - such as is not covered in "Driver Ed." He should know how to fly a light airplane. He should know how to shoot well. He should know elementary geography, both worldwide and local. He should have a cursory knowledge of both zoology and botany. He should know the fundamentals of agriculture and corporate economy. He should be well qualified in armed combat, boxing, wrestling, judo, or the equivalent. He should know how to manage a motorcycle. He should be comfortable in at least one foreign language, and more if appropriate to his background. He should be familiar with remedial medicine.
> 
> These things should be available before a son leaves his father's household." -Col. Jeff Cooper



......and I very much believe a daughter as well.


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## Archangel M (Jul 11, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:


> She'll catch on. I'm sure she probably got corrected for that.


 
From looking at the comments on the vid, it appears that that scan technique is what was being taught to the girl at the course she was at.


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## KenpoTex (Jul 11, 2008)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> Obviously the instructor is making good use of the snap-cap malfunction drills. GLOCKS don't malfunction that often. It's good training throwing the snap-caps in there.


  Yep, you're required to load at least one dummy round in every mag for the duration of the course.  After going through this class (same class, different date/location) I can tap-rack in my sleep. 




Archangel M said:


> From looking at the comments on the vid, it appears that that scan technique is what was being taught to the girl at the course she was at.


 
Correct, the 360 degree scan is a required part of the post-shooting process when training there.  The position in question is referred to as "high ready" and is one of two positions utilized so that you can turn 360 degrees without sweeping any non-hostiles (the other being position "SUL" ).  

While she looked like she was just going through the motions in the first couple of clips, I'm sure that she caught on and smoothed out on that just as she obviously did on the other skills.  After participating in this course, I guarentee she's already had training that is more realistic and relevant than many LE and .mil types ever get (unfortunately).

For anyone who's interested, this is the review I wrote from when I took this class last year. 
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51769&highlight=tactical+response

I'm actually going back next week to take this one again as well as their Advanced Fighting Pistol, and FOF Scenarios class (yay, shooting/getting shot with simunitions).


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 11, 2008)

I grew up hunting in the woods almost from the time I can remember. My father would take me out with him and his brothers and I learned at an early age the guns kill. When they thought me old enough they put the rifle in my hands and taught me to shoot then after my first time trying to hit a moving target the took me back and taught me to hit one. 
It is good to see some parents still believe in teaching their children how to handle a weapon and to how to shoot properly


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice!  Cool find KenpoTex!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> From looking at the comments on the vid, it appears that that scan technique is what was being taught to the girl at the course she was at.


 Apparently......though the purpose of pointing the gun toward the sky is beyond me.  Makes me nervous seeing the muzzle angled up in front of someone's face like that.  But it's apparently not a quirk she's doing, but is something they are being taught.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 11, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> Yep, you're required to load at least one dummy round in every mag for the duration of the course.  After going through this class (same class, different date/location) I can tap-rack in my sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 That explains why everyone was doing it.....I understand the logic of not 'lasering' non-hostiles with the muzzle. ...but it would seem the same could be accomplished by pointing the muzzle toward the ground directly in front of your feet than having the muzzle directly in front of your face.  

Not saying it's wrong, just saying it doesn't make me comfortable.  Explains why she was doing it though.  Accounting for that, this girl did better than some cops i've had in training.


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## Archangel M (Jul 11, 2008)

Ditto. My only gripe is the weapon so close to the head. Sul or ground.


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## KenpoTex (Jul 11, 2008)

I prefer Sul myself because, even though it's a disparate position that doesn't fit within my drawstroke, I feel like the mechanics are slightly better when/if you have to re-engage or engage another threat.  That's not to say that I think there's anything necessarily _wrong_ with the high-ready...different tools, etc.


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## theletch1 (Jul 11, 2008)

Ya know, she handles that weapon better and with more confidence than a lot of adults that know.


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## Deaf Smith (Jul 12, 2008)

Ken,

She has better not tell what she does to her school class. Why they might send her to an alternative school for bad kids cause she mentioned 'gun' in class.

But yes, I sure wish I'd had formal training earlier. But I am lucky. Since age 15 or so I got to roam the woods with .22. I mean no critter was safe from me. Even got two armadillos with a Colt .32 auto at age 17 (snuck my grandmom's .32 out to take hunting.) I grew up with Colt 'O' frame and Smith 'K' frame handguns to.

I'm a firm beliver that all kids should be taught early about guns and how to safely handle them (we do it with sex, so why not guns? Both are everywhere, right?)

Deaf


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## KenpoTex (Jul 12, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> Ken,
> 
> But yes, I sure wish I'd had formal training earlier. But I am lucky. Since age 15 or so I got to roam the woods with .22. I mean no critter was safe from me. Even got two armadillos with a Colt .32 auto at age 17 (snuck my grandmom's .32 out to take hunting.) I grew up with Colt 'O' frame and Smith 'K' frame handguns to.
> 
> ...


 
I too was lucky enough to get an early start in the shooting world.  My dad taught me how to shoot when I was about 5 and by the time I was in high-school, I owned 3 or 4 different guns.  I just didn't get to do anything as cool as that.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 12, 2008)

Sadly, it's something that's simply been made to 'go away' over here in Britain and I think it's a crying shame.  

I grew up learning how to hunt small game and clear vermin with small calibre rifles and little 410 shotguns.  Indeed, my first 'job' was on a local farm shooting rats and scaring off birds.  Plus, that rabbit hunting came in very useful when my dad was out of work for a while and I could put meat on the table.

Those experiences are what enabled me to be good enough with a longarm to be on my university rifle team - I bet those dont exist anymore either .

We were a nation of shopkeepers and soldiers ... now I think we're just a nation of shoppers - glum.

Off to watch the practical shooting videos now :tup:.

EDIT: Good girl!!!!  I am so impressed.  Mind you, I am about the worst pistol shot known to mankind :lol:.


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## Deaf Smith (Jul 12, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> I too was lucky enough to get an early start in the shooting world. My dad taught me how to shoot when I was about 5 and by the time I was in high-school, I owned 3 or 4 different guns. I just didn't get to do anything as cool as that.


 
Ken,

In high school I had a H&R .22 drop out cylinder revolver. The electric shop teacher had a Browning FN .25. He had lost the magazine, and it having a magzine safety, it would not fire. So we traded guns in the parking lot of the school! Now try THAT today!

No, I started IPSC in college (just as I stared TKD in the same college.) At Nacogodoches they had 'walk-n-draw' like Cooper was doing at Bear Lake. Two guys just walk toward a pair of stop plates on a fence post. Signal comes to draw (whistle, they didn't have timers back then) and both would try to knock their plate off the fence post before the other one could. I learned alot about fast shooting that way! It was fun as heck.

To me all high schools ought to have gun safety and maybe a riflely class. .22 lr rifles would be perfect.

Deaf


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## theletch1 (Jul 12, 2008)

Here's another video of the same young lady playing with an AR-15.  The little flick with the bolt before she puts it back into the receiver tells me that she knows exactly what she's doing.

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## Sukerkin (Jul 12, 2008)

I watched the other one of her doing the same thing after a bit more practice.  

She seems very quick in that one and also much more assured (not that she seemed unassured in this one ).

I have to say that the more I've been around the level headed 'firearms' people here at MT the more I have become convinced of what I've always thought - disarming the law abiding population serves no purpose but to render *them* defenceless without doing a thing to prevent crime.

I'm sure that a firearms 'ban' does prevent some accidental deaths that occur through through reckless behaviour and I don't want to make light of that gain.   But, in the cities especially, I would've thought that even a cold and callous 'numbers' game would show that 'good guys' who can fight back reduce the death toll of the non-criminal by quite a margin.

Anyhow, it's late and I'm starting to thread-drift (with the best of intentions ), so I'd better sign off .


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## KenpoTex (Jul 12, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> Here's another video of the same young lady playing with an AR-15. The little flick with the bolt before she puts it back into the receiver tells me that she knows exactly what she's doing.


 
yep, that video was posted on getoffthex.com (tactical response's forum).  When James Yeager (the owner) saw the vid, he gave her a free class.



			
				Sukerin said:
			
		

> I'm sure that a firearms 'ban' does prevent some accidental deaths that occur through through reckless behaviour and I don't want to make light of that gain. But, in the cities especially, I would've thought that even a cold and callous 'numbers' game would show that 'good guys' who can fight back reduce the death toll of the non-criminal by quite a margin.


  Despite what the Brady Bunch claims, there are relatively few accidental firearms deaths (compared to other causes of accidental death), so banning guns to reduce accidental deaths is a non-starter.  There really is NO _good_ reason to prohibit ownership of firearms by law-abiding citizens.


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## Deaf Smith (Jul 13, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> Despite what the Brady Bunch claims, there are relatively few accidental firearms deaths (compared to other causes of accidental death), so banning guns to reduce accidental deaths is a non-starter. There really is NO _good_ reason to prohibit ownership of firearms by law-abiding citizens.


 
Japan has far more suicides than the U.S. and they have banned ALL guns!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The U.S. is 43ed. And if you look, most of the countries above us have very strict gun control. So how is banning guns gonna lower the suicide rate?

http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suiciderates/en/

Also WHO, gives their take on this above.

In fact every site I googled showed Japan having way way more suicides than the U.S.  And Russia is just out of sight!

The liberals are just trying to find some excuse to get around the 2nd Amendment. Their efforts are transparent at best, dishonest at least, and flat liars  and snake oil salesmen at worst.

Deaf


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 15, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> Japan has far more suicides than the U.S. and they have banned ALL guns!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
> 
> ...


 I think that suicides are entirely irrelavent in the discussion of firearms.  I am entirely of the opinion that

1) Suicide is an individual choice.
2) Guns do not MAKE people commit suicide, they are merely a facilitator of suicide.

The suicide angle is a red-herring on the part of the Brady Bunch and should be dismissed outright as being as fallacious as the Brady Bunch calling a 19 year old gang banger killed by police a 'child' for the purposes of jacking up the 'children killed by guns' statistic.


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