# Armpit Pressure Point



## the_kicking_fiend

Hey Guys,

I was just interested if anyone who trains in pressure points could confirm or deny a rumour I heard about the armpit pressure point.  Is it true hat if hit hard enough, the entire side of the body can be totally disabled.  How this works I don't know and whether this means the leg is also included I don't know but it sounds a great point to strike if this is so. What sort of fist would be needed to cause maximum effect?

your friendly fiend


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## Zepp

Not the entire side of the body, but a sharp enough blow to the area just below the armpit can cause some numbness there and possibly give your opponent a dead arm for a few seconds.  It's a good plan if you follow it up with an attack to the head.

I don't train in pressure points specifically, it's just a handy trick I learned from my TKD instructor.


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## Jill666

Yup, dead arm can result from that point- I can assure you from personal experience. Also it hurts a lot. I personally think a strike with the fingertips (blade or beak) is most effective due to the penetraion factor. Again, I'm a novice, and money permitting I'll be picking up several books this month from DKI and other sources. 

Have fun  (but not too much fun)


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## Matt Stone

Two things - 

1)  There are a few points in the armpit area that can be used for different purposes.  Two are seizing points (you grab them to make them work) - one hurts like nobody's business, the other one can numb the arm a tad.  The point you are talking about will deaden the arm and make it less than functional for a few seconds...  But that is supposed to be all you need! 

2)  Don't buy DKI's stuff.  First, you can't learn vital point striking from a book.  Second, his methods and theories are questionable (we have had a lot of discussion about that, and in all objectivity the effectiveness of DKI theory has yet to be satisfactorily proven).  Third, you run a very serious risk of injury if you play around with things you learn from a book written by someone who may or may not know what the heck they are talking about (volume of seminars not withstanding).

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## DAC..florida

Please listen to the advise of yiliquin, I have studied Dim Mak pressure points , joint manipulation and pain compliance this can do permanent damage and in some extreme cases even kill people these techniques are not somthing you want to learn from books or video.
The under arm is a great area to strike and most often forgotton about, I suggest maybe trying some muscle grabbing in that area for severe pain compliance.


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## Humble artist

Armpit shot is dangerous.
Actually it can result in growing,if rapid weakening,nausea,vomiting,possible arterial damage,numb/disabled arm and most importantly death (which may result in- from nearly instant shock to a day)
Theoretical information but from reasonable sources.
Spear hand.
As we are dealing with pressure points,there are various in that same area and you can come up with esoteric,oriental medical explanations but this also finds proof in modern medicine.

As previously informed,not anything to fool around with for good reasons of course.
A good tip on pain compliance too.I would like to add that for such,muscle directly in front of the armpit (linked to pectoral muscle) can be used for pain compliance/control and extreme pain can be generated,same goes for the muscle up behind the armpit.


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## Jill666

Guys, I am not learning these points from books, I am studying at a kyusho dojo to supplement my training. The books will be a tool for my memory etc. 

As for DKI, I'm well aware of the controversies surrounding Dillman, especially with the no-touch hooey. But I can say I have FELT the effectiveness of the techniques. Have you? 

I was trying to give a straight answer to a straight question.


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## Chronuss

yes, there is a nerve cluster in the armpit and is called the Brachial Plexus (sp?).  I honestly do not know if it can render the entire side of the body useless.  this nerve strike is introduced at orange belt in AK, and the weapon is a middle knuckle punch, and boy does it hurt.  another good weapon for this strike would be a horizontal spear hand.


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by DAC..florida _
> *Please listen to the advise of yiliquin, I have studied Dim Mak pressure points , joint manipulation and pain compliance this can do permanent damage and in some extreme cases even kill people these techniques are not somthing you want to learn from books or video.
> The under arm is a great area to strike and most often forgotton about, I suggest maybe trying some muscle grabbing in that area for severe pain compliance. *



I would like to see a documented proof of the practice of Dim Mak.  So far it is pretty much like the story about Big Foot.... many people talk about it, NO ONE has actually seen one lol.


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## chufeng

Those that practice it (for real) won't say anything because they'd be tried for murder...
Those that have been on the receiving end CAN'T talk about it unless you hold a seance 

Ethically, I see no reason to continue to promote this aspect of the martial arts...if defense is your goal, you can do that without DimMak...If self-cultivation is the goal, why study an art that takes life over several days? 

As far as the armpit strike goes...
There are MANY reasons why it's dangerous...
I don't advocate practicing this strike with a training partner (except for maybe light contact to get the accuracy down)...

Not only is there a large plexus of nerves coming off of the cervical spine, but there are two very large blood vessels in that same area...It is also the first point on the heart meridian, so from the aspect of disrupting normal qi flow...it would be bad to hit this point.

:asian:
chufeng


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## the_kicking_fiend

Hmmm good points thanks.  A strike to that area seems much easier than a grab because it's in an awkward place and if someone is wearing a jumper or shirt you would expect a muscle grab to be less effective, no?

I'm very suprised to learn it can kill?!  I guess there is no way of developing any kind of muscle to protect u there.  On another note I've heard that it is possible to develop muscles to protect ur side between ur ribs and hips, anyone know about this? i.e. types of excercises?

It seems to be a good move anyway to use if you grabbed the arm from a punch, lifted it upwards, smashed the armpit a couple of times then maybe an arm break?  Obviously a very serious and nasty combination but martial arts is afterall, let's face it, very nasty and violent!

your friendly fiend


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## Zepp

Chufeng,

You sure that striking there under the armpit can kill?!  I doubt there's a human being who can hit that hard to that part of the body with their bare hands.  Maybe with a sledge hammer.

I would think that if you want to practice it on a training partner, you'd be ok with a light palm heel strike.

I want to look up that "large plexus of nerves" there in an anatomy book now.  Anyone got one handy?


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## chufeng

According to the classical teaching, this strike can kill...
I don't have any personal experience with it (that is, I've never killed anyone with my hands...and hope I never have to)...

I can see how it might from both a physiologic and energy point of view...but I prefer to carry that conversation on off-line.

:asian:
chufeng


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> Those that practice it (for real) won't say anything because they'd be tried for murder...
> Those that have been on the receiving end CAN'T talk about it unless you hold a seance
> 
> Ethically, I see no reason to continue to promote this aspect of the martial arts...if defense is your goal, you can do that without DimMak...If self-cultivation is the goal, why study an art that takes life over several days?





I simply don't believe this kind of "privileged information" status is warranted. There is no justification for it. There are lots of texts on Dim Mak, written in Chinese. I have come across some many years ago.  The Chinese made lots of blatantly absurd assertions about ancient CMA, that defy physics and the human physiology. I do not know if Dim Mak should be included in that category or not.

Your answer is not shedding any light on the issue. Rather that line of reasoning and argument, lends credit to charlatans' bogus BS. Any charlatans can use that line to hide the truth about every scam.


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## Matt Stone

I don't think that Chufeng was trying to keep it as "privileged" information, so much so as exercising a certain degree of maturity and responsibility with potentially dangerous information.

I was going to correct Zepp's post, but thought better of it for just that reason.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm

I don't think Dim Mak is as "dangerous" as it is being hyped up to be, if it is even real at all.  The conditioning and training required, would wash out 9999 out of 10,000 trainees. From what I have learned, you need to condition your fingers to the point that, heck whether you hit the "mak" or not, the blunt force trauma is sufficient to send your target to the H.  And secondly, you need to memorize the "mak" and be able to pin-point them on your target, even when he is fully clothed. You need to know which "mak" to "dim" at what hour of the day, for what effect.

Yeah, I am sure, any Joeblow from the street can master that in no time, if you would just shared the info with him. LOL


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *I don't think Dim Mak is as "dangerous" as it is being hyped up to be, if it is even real at all.  The conditioning and training required, would wash out 9999 out of 10,000 trainees.*



Not really.  Only if you watch too many bad Hong Kong movies... 



> *From what I have learned, you need to condition your fingers to the point that, heck whether you hit the "mak" or not, the blunt force trauma is sufficient to send your target to the H.  And secondly, you need to memorize the "mak" and be able to pin-point them on your target, even when he is fully clothed. You need to know which "mak" to "dim" at what hour of the day, for what effect.*



Memorizing the points is the easy part.  Though I haven't been studying as regularly as I should, I can pick out at least 200 points at any given time...  Admittedly, since they are symmetrically placed on the body, a lot of those points are counted twice once I find them once...  



> *Yeah, I am sure, any Joeblow from the street can master that in no time, if you would just shared the info with him. LOL *



No, they likely couldn't.  But they could sure "f" up themselves and their buddies trying to figure it out.

I know how to make all sorts of bombs and stuff, too.  Should I post that info freely on the internet as well?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## Johnathan Napalm

1. I despise HK MA movies. They are an insult to real MA.

2. Well, if you say you can identify which precize point to hit, more power to you.   Claims need to be verified in order to be valid. But I will take your word for it.  Hmmmm....On second thought... Which mak to hit at 11 am that will result in the target to die in 24 hrs? And with what force?  

3. You may think it is some SECRET. But textbook on the topic is a dime a dozen all over Asian cities China town bookstores.


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *1. I despise HK MA movies. They are an insult to real MA.*



Yes, but there are way too many people that identify the actions of HK film actors doing wirework to the things they think they will be able to develop...



> *2. Well, if you say you can identify which precize point to hit, more power to you.   Claims need to be verified in order to be valid. But I will take your word for it.  Hmmmm....On second thought... Which mak to hit at 11 am that will result in the target to die in 24 hrs? And with what force?  *



I said I could ID them...  Never said I was a whiz at hitting them.  And there is a big difference between the "secret" or "forbidden" points that deal with acupuncture points and energy damage and all the other points that will result in stunning, injuring or killing effects as well.



> *3. You may think it is some SECRET. But textbook on the topic is a dime a dozen all over Asian cities China town bookstores. *



Never said it was a secret.  Just said "exercising maturity and responsibility."  If Joe Blow down the road gets a book on bombs and kills himself while maiming his family, then it was the author of that book that acted irresponsibly by putting that information into the hands of people not fit to have it.  I'm exercising my choice not to do the same.  Not that I am implying *you* aren't fit, but there are more than we two reading this thread...  Hence Chufeng's comment about not going into the issue online.  In person, in private, sure.  On the internet where any idiot 14 year old with a grudge against someone could access it?  Nope.  At least not via my comments.

Gambarimarsu.
:asian:


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## chufeng

JN,

I didn't claim to know dimMak...

What I said was that I can think of both physiologic and energy related reasons why hitting that point would be bad...

Does that make me a charlatan?

I choose not to discuss certain things on this board...striking to vital points is one of them...

For those who are really interested in the subject...find a teacher who can show you...buying a book is only worthwhile IF you already know the rudiments of it...

As Yiliquan1 points out, there are a wide variety of people who read this board...I don't want someone out there saying "Hey I saw this on martial talk..."and POW...someone gets hurt.

Since you've already read the dozens of books on DimMak, there is little I can offer you anyways...

...and for the record, I don't know DimMak.
So the "privileged" information is not mine to give...

I practice abesthesia and I do have some training in Acupuncture...and I base my concerns on that.

:asian:
chufeng


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## chufeng

abesthesia = anesthesia...sorry for the typo


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## DAC..florida

Dim Mak along with everything else has changed over the years and is not only the art of killing it is the art of pressure points for healing and self defence purposes, I have been fortunate enough to train with someone who has working knowledge of this art I have a dim mak bible written in english and as soon as I can find it I will give the website of the man who wrote it. This book has alot of useful information to share but as I said ealier be careful some pressure points can do permanent damage to people and even kill!
I am not a master of dim mak nor is the man who shared some techniques with me, the man who wrote the book I have says that he is, I never met him. If I could find the stupid thing I would have already posted it.


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> Yes, but there are way too many people that identify the actions of HK film actors doing wirework to the things they think they will be able to develop...


Irrelevant. Does not apply in my case.



> I said I could ID them...  Never said I was a whiz at hitting them.  And there is a big difference between the "secret" or "forbidden" points that deal with acupuncture points and energy damage and all the other points that will result in stunning, injuring or killing effects as well.


and I asked you which mak it was ..

Look, I am extremely skeptical of anyone who claims he/she can pinpoint a tiny spot on a fully clothed human body that is in motion. That is BS.  You can strip the guy naked and take a measuring tape to the body, then may be.  When the guy is coming at you, and you can ID, target and hit a spot on this body which you are looking at for the first time, through layers of clothing?  FAT CHANCE!

That is why I am skeptical of the claim of proficiency in DimMak.  Besides, I am skeptical of the effect of DimMak.



> Never said it was a secret.  Just said "exercising maturity and responsibility."  If Joe Blow down the road gets a book on bombs and kills himself while maiming his family, then it was the author of that book that acted irresponsibly by putting that information into the hands of people not fit to have it.  I'm exercising my choice not to do the same.  Not that I am implying *you* aren't fit, but there are more than we two reading this thread...  Hence Chufeng's comment about not going into the issue online.  In person, in private, sure.  On the internet where any idiot 14 year old with a grudge against someone could access it?  Nope.  At least not via my comments.



No, if the idiot blew himself up b/c he read something about bomb making and tried his hand at it, then it is HIS fault alone. Unless he is a minor.  About that case where the publisher was found liable by a jury (of morons  ), that book in question was about how to carry out a hit.   I read the book. Haven't kill anyone (yet) . Giving people instruction on how to make a living as a hitman, probably "shoke the conscience of the society and the court", so the speak. And hence warrant to be held legally responsible. Publishing info about a martial art?  Hardly fits the criteria. 

As far as martial arts go, there is no art that is THAT deadly as to warrant keeping it from the public.  99.99% of the times when such claim is made about a specific art, some sort of scam is invovled.  (I have to laugh at some schools/instructors closing the doors on their BB classes to protect the BB secret! LMAO!  What a load of crap! If anything, BB is simply elementary material! )

As to any 14 yr old idiot attempting to use Dim Mak?  Sorry, I have to lMAO!   FAT CHANCE of that happening. Yeah, it could only happen if the kid used a HAMMER to hit the mak!!   Do you think Dim Mak is about "touching" the mak? (assuming of course that your know which mak to hit  and when to hit) No! You have to strike it with blunt force.


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> JN,
> 
> I didn't claim to know dimMak...
> 
> What I said was that I can think of both physiologic and energy related reasons why hitting that point would be bad...
> 
> Does that make me a charlatan?


No. I was not referring to you as a charlatan. On the contrary, I consider you and Yiliquan as heavy weights.

I was referring to your position about  keeping the art "secret and priviledged" as simply lending credence to charlatans who use that line of reasoning as fig leaf to cover the BS they hype. 

99.99% of the time when such claim of privilege status is made, some sort of scam is involved and the charlatan wants to divert inquiry away.



> I choose not to discuss certain things on this board...striking to vital points is one of them...


Fine. But you are giving the impression that you know a LOT about  the subject AND that it is such a SECRET art and so DEADLY that it needs to be kept from the public.  

Every time something like this is presented, 9 out of 10, the poster is BULLS@#$%tting.  

Granted, a charlatan is in it for the money. But your are not. Hence I wasn't referring to you as a charlatan. 



> For those who are really interested in the subject...find a teacher who can show you...buying a book is only worthwhile IF you already know the rudiments of it...


That is the problem right there. This DIM MAK is such a secret, any charlatan can BS a bunch about it and make BS claim about it.  How do you know that "teacher" is not BSting the whole crack pot?  Is Dim Mak even for real?  What is it based on? What indepent proof of theory is available? What evidence is available?

Keeping something secret is an invitation to fraud and farce.



> As Yiliquan1 points out, there are a wide variety of people who read this board...I don't want someone out there saying "Hey I saw this on martial talk..."and POW...someone gets hurt.



I think people are over concerned about the effectiveness of DimMak.

If this thing is "as advertised" you would have:

1. Lots of Asian school kids dead or crippled b/c their school mates used Dim Mak to settle score with them. Any one can go to their local corner bookstore and get a book on Dim Mak.

2. The Chinese( both the Communists and the Nationalists) would have teams of assasins, special forces, made up of DIm Mak special agents and operators.  They have all the archive and secret texts on Dim Mak and any other CMA.  Even I was able to get my hands on a few of those written in Classical Chinese. YES, Classical Chinese. Not Mandarin CHinese. Those texts were written hundreds of years ago. Yeah, you would think all the greasy details of MA secrets are in there. But, bogus claims are not modern day invention.  Tons of claims were made. Tons of assertion were made. Some has basis, some is pure garbage.

I am pretty sure that the Chinese are lMAO over Americans treating Dim Mak as such deadly art.  



> Since you've already read the dozens of books on DimMak, there is little I can offer you anyways...
> 
> ...and for the record, I don't know DimMak.
> So the "privileged" information is not mine to give...
> 
> I practice abesthesia and I do have some training in Acupuncture...and I base my concerns on that.



Condescending remark is ignored.


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *No. I was not referring to you as a charlatan. On the contrary, I consider you and Yiliquan as heavy weights.*



Oh!  So now you're calling me fat, too???  :angry: :rofl:



> *I was referring to your position about  keeping the art "secret and priviledged" as simply lending credence to charlatans who use that line of reasoning as fig leaf to cover the BS they hype.*


*

You're right.  It does seem to lend authenticity to the claim.  At the same time, withholding information on improvised munitions helps to support the idea that private citizens lack the responsibility to possess that info in the first place.  Neither supposition is necessarily correct, but the steps taken to insure the safety of the general public do lend weight to the flawed premises...




99.99% of the time when such claim of privilege status is made, some sort of scam is involved and the charlatan wants to divert inquiry away.

Click to expand...


Well, that's the flag then...  When someone says flatly that it is super deadly and super secret, the BS detector should flash!  Neither Chufeng nor I are saying it is that, just that it is dangerous to hand out info irresponsibly without concern for what people will do with the info.  Sure, they can get it somewhere else, but at least I'm not contributing to their own self-injury...




Fine. But you are giving the impression that you know a LOT about  the subject AND that it is such a SECRET art and so DEADLY that it needs to be kept from the public.

Click to expand...


I didn't get that from Chufeng's comments, but then I know him personally...  I am sure that wasn't his intent.




Every time something like this is presented, 9 out of 10, the poster is BULLS@#$%tting.  

Click to expand...


See above comment in total agreement of your comment here...  




Granted, a charlatan is in it for the money. But your are not. Hence I wasn't referring to you as a charlatan. 

Click to expand...


In all honesty, we in the NW Yiliquan training group pay not a slim dime for training...  We pay our annual association fee, and that's it...  I teach for free whenever I teach - I refuse to accept payment.  I am working out a contract now to teach on Fort Lewis, and payment is part of the contract.  I will use the money to better the training by investing in equipment and other things for the class.




That is the problem right there. This DIM MAK is such a secret, any charlatan can BS a bunch about it and make BS claim about it.  How do you know that "teacher" is not BSting the whole crack pot?  Is Dim Mak even for real?  What is it based on? What indepent proof of theory is available? What evidence is available?

Click to expand...


Well, this kind of segues into the whole Dillman and Mooney controversies...  Vital point striking is more and less than what folks think it is.  "Dim mak" is almost nothing more than a sales label at this point (since most folks lack enough foreign language exposure to accept that it only means the same as the words we use in English - vital point striking), and should probably be avoided if it is used (though there are some folks who teach legitimate things with that label).




Keeping something secret is an invitation to fraud and farce.

Click to expand...


Or it is a good way to make someone value something ordinary more than they ordinarily would!




I think people are over concerned about the effectiveness of DimMak.

Click to expand...


I would agree.  They think that, like qigong, it will be the magic bullet for their training.  Neat thing is that when you have a really good strike/kick, nearly any spot on the body can become (almost) a vital point strike!  I have been hit in "non-vital" areas by folks with Thunder God strikes, and I can tell you that the last thing on my mind was "well, they suck because they didn't hit such-and-such a point."  I was likely too busy trying to regain control over my bodily functions, and their skill at "dim mak" wasn't really on my mind...




If this thing is "as advertised" you would have:

1. Lots of Asian school kids dead or crippled b/c their school mates used Dim Mak to settle score with them. Any one can go to their local corner bookstore and get a book on Dim Mak.

2. The Chinese( both the Communists and the Nationalists) would have teams of assasins, special forces, made up of DIm Mak special agents and operators.  They have all the archive and secret texts on Dim Mak and any other CMA.  Even I was able to get my hands on a few of those written in Classical Chinese. YES, Classical Chinese. Not Mandarin CHinese. Those texts were written hundreds of years ago. Yeah, you would think all the greasy details of MA secrets are in there. But, bogus claims are not modern day invention.  Tons of claims were made. Tons of assertion were made. Some has basis, some is pure garbage.

I am pretty sure that the Chinese are lMAO over Americans treating Dim Mak as such deadly art. 

Click to expand...


Well, not sure I agree on the details of these comments, but close enough in generalities.  The government agent thing amount simply to a flawed premise.  Governments are concerned with technology and toys.  There are very old and time tested things that I know the US Government ignores completely.  Whatever.  Besides, how long does it take to train a Remo Williams?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:*


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## chufeng

> Condescending remark is ignored.



Not intended as condescending...however, you seem to think that the plethora of books on this subject have USEFUL information in them...or you think they are totally useless...you've basically said both within this thread

I would suggest that anyone who publishes a book on this subject is only in it for the money and not so much interested in what the reader may learn...

I would also suggest that training to hit vital points is a REAL art but VERY few will ever achieve it...

Better to develop the Hammer of Thor punch that Yiliquan1 likes to refer to...

I agree with you that it is unlikely that someone will be able to go out and use my post to be effective in a street confrontation...but I've actually knocked someone out, unintentionally, by hitting a "point" while screwing around...back in 1983...my Sifu wasn't there, and I had no idea how to resuscitate the person...

That event has made me a little more cautious

:asian:
chufeng


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *Not intended as condescending...however, you seem to think that the plethora of books on this subject have USEFUL information in them...or you think they are totally useless...you've basically said both within this thread
> 
> I would suggest that anyone who publishes a book on this subject is only in it for the money and not so much interested in what the reader may learn...
> 
> I would also suggest that training to hit vital points is a REAL art but VERY few will ever achieve it...
> 
> Better to develop the Hammer of Thor punch that Yiliquan1 likes to refer to...
> 
> I agree with you that it is unlikely that someone will be able to go out and use my post to be effective in a street confrontation...but I've actually knocked someone out, unintentionally, by hitting a "point" while screwing around...back in 1983...my Sifu wasn't there, and I had no idea how to resuscitate the person...
> 
> That event has made me a little more cautious
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng *



My mentioning of the fact that books on the topic are widely available in another part of the world is in reference to the fact that Dim Mak is no hidden secret in Asia.  Charts of the mak are a dime a dozen.

But you don't ever hear of any case where Dim Mak has ever been used. When they settle scores, it is almost always with the good ol' BLADE (Samurai blade or the Chinese meat cleaver).  If anything, Dim Mak is widely accepted as a lost art. The knowledge about the mak is widely known. But no one has been able to put it to practice.  Every body takes it for granted that Dim Mak is for real. No one has actually seen anyone practice it. Hence my Big Foot analogy.

As regarding to publishing such books for profit, in most cases that would be true. The text I have come across, is written in Classical Chinese. Next to impossible to decipher, even for people who are profficient in Mandarin Chinese.  It sure wasn't written for mass circulation. 

The problem is, there are also many text written in such style, but are of dubious quality.  I have read one that claims to teach you to walk over snow w/o leaving foot prints.  And how to climb wall like the Spiderman.  Yet, in another chapter, the same book describs in great details about training and conditioning that dovetails extremely well with what is known in modern bodybuilding knowledge.


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> ...Well, this kind of segues into the whole Dillman and Mooney controversies...  Vital point striking is more and less than what folks think it is.  "Dim mak" is almost nothing more than a sales label at this point (since most folks lack enough foreign language exposure to accept that it only means the same as the words we use in English - vital point striking), and should probably be avoided if it is used (though there are some folks who teach legitimate things with that label).


According to the text that I have read (assuming I understood it correctly), Dim Mak is NOT excactly the vital point striking , aka, nerve center hit.  Dim Mak is suppose to block your chi or whatever and you would suffer a predicted death at a predetermined time.



> Well, not sure I agree on the details of these comments, but close enough in generalities.  The government agent thing amount simply to a flawed premise.  Governments are concerned with technology and toys.  There are very old and time tested things that I know the US Government ignores completely.  Whatever.  Besides, how long does it take to train a Remo Williams?


They are more attuned to making the best use of what they have access to , than you would care to give credit to.


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *My mentioning of the fact that books on the topic are widely available in another part of the world is in reference to the fact that Dim Mak is no hidden secret in Asia.  Charts of the mak are a dime a dozen.*



I don't mean to sound critical, but how much time have you spent in Asia?  It has been my experience (having lived in Japan) that nearly every person I met had zero knowledge of anything martial, much less the more esoteric and exotic aspects of martial training.  And that goes for the martial artists as well...  

When you talk about "charts of the mak" what are you referring to?  Acupuncture point charts?  They are common, sure, just like charts of the musculoskeletal system are common in the US...



> *But you don't ever hear of any case where Dim Mak has ever been used. When they settle scores, it is almost always with the good ol' BLADE (Samurai blade or the Chinese meat cleaver).*



Where did you hear this?  I hate to break the news to you, but at least in modern times (perhaps you are referring to the use of katana in a historical context?) even _self-defense_ is frowned upon in Asia...  Much less settling disagreements with swords!



> *If anything, Dim Mak is widely accepted as a lost art. The knowledge about the mak is widely known. But no one has been able to put it to practice.  Every body takes it for granted that Dim Mak is for real. No one has actually seen anyone practice it. Hence my Big Foot analogy.*



Now, are you talking about "widely known" in the US or Asia here?  I guarantee you that such things are barely known at all, much less known widely.

Just curious.  Good discussion so far...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## yilisifu

The REAL art DOES exist but it isn't the garbage that's promoted in the el cheapo books by "master" like Ashida Kim and his ilk.  There ARE people who have seen it but few who can actually do it because striking these points requires a very special kind of striking force which is developed through special training exercises which are also largely unknown.

Yiliquan 1 is right - problems in the Orient aren't settled with blades nowadays at all - fighting for ANY reason is frowned upon very heavily -:shrug:


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> I don't mean to sound critical, but how much time have you spent in Asia?  It has been my experience (having lived in Japan) that nearly every person I met had zero knowledge of anything martial, much less the more esoteric and exotic aspects of martial training.  And that goes for the martial artists as well...


Yes, people over there in general, couldn't give a rat *** about MA anymore than the JoeBlow over here does. But just walk in any bookstores in any Chinese dominated cities, and you will come across tons of MA texts. Dim Mak is a Chinese art. The Japanese may not know squat about it.



> When you talk about "charts of the mak" what are you referring to?  Acupuncture point charts?  They are common, sure, just like charts of the musculoskeletal system are common in the US...


Dim Mak is Cantonese for "stiking" the "mak" with the "mak" being the "vital points" (for the lack of a better word).  The charts plot those maks on the human body. In authentic Dim Mak, each of this mak is a target that correspondents to one of the 12 time zones. (I am over simplifying here. It has a lot more than this.) (I assume you already know that the Chinese time zone is 12 zones for our 24 hours, ie each of their hour = 2 of the regular hours we use.  Of course, that was the past custom. Most modern day Chinese cannot evev tell you what those 12 time zones are. )  In DIm Mak, you target the mak according to the desired strike effect (ie how your target dies ) in accordance to the time zone.



> Where did you hear this?  I hate to break the news to you, but at least in modern times (perhaps you are referring to the use of katana in a historical context?) even _self-defense_ is frowned upon in Asia...  Much less settling disagreements with swords!


I hate to break the news to you. You have not read the local newspapers in most Chinese dominated cities.  Read the crime page. Murder weapon of choice, the meat cleaver, Samurai blade, and this special 3 sided pointed tool used for metal work (it has a hardened needle sharp point and 3 blades, hence it opens up a nasty wound channel direct to vital organs. Most victims simply bled to death.

Self-defence is frown upon in Asia?  HA! Please pull your head put of the sand dune. Settling score is the hottest thing!  Ever heard of the term "saving face"?  Or the Chinese proverb," For a gentleman, settling scores and getting even, even if it takes 10 years, is never too late"   LMAO. That is actually taught in high school!  How the hell can you even come up with such assertion?  For the Chinese, (and most Asians who are not devouted Buddhists, or Christians), you are OBLIGATED to settle score and get even! .  Else, you are not worthy of your family name, whatever hell that may happen to be.

I am sure your experience in Japan is a sheltered one. 

LOL, people like you, are what they call "stupid American tourists"  LOL. I don't mean it as a disrespect. It is entirely possible that your occupation requirement made it necessary that you interact within certain circles of well to do, well educated, higher echelons of the society.




> Now, are you talking about "widely known" in the US or Asia here?  I guarantee you that such things are barely known at all, much less known widely.



"Widely known" as in," over in Asia, within the Chinese communities,  the existence of such an ancient art called Dim Mak is a widely known fact. Information about the maks and the effect of striking those maks, is in public domain. And in Asian, there is no such thing as "NC17"  Those books are certainly not kept away from the kids. 

"Guarantee that Dim Mak is barely known"?  LMAO. You wanna bet? Call up any Chinese kid and ask him if he has ever heard of Dim Mak. The only problem would be, he might not heard of this English term. But I guarantee you, he has heard of Dim Mak in Chinese.  Dim Mak is the cream of the crop of Chinese MA. An ancient lost art. You can bet your *** that every Chinese kid knows what it is.  May be Japanese kids don't. That I wouldn't know.


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> *The REAL art DOES exist but it isn't the garbage that's promoted in the el cheapo books by "master" like Ashida Kim and his ilk.  There ARE people who have seen it but few who can actually do it because striking these points requires a very special kind of striking force which is developed through special training exercises which are also largely unknown.
> 
> Yiliquan 1 is right - problems in the Orient aren't settled with blades nowadays at all - fighting for ANY reason is frowned upon very heavily -:shrug: *



The first part is correct. As I have mentioned in previous posts, you need to strike the mak with blunt force, in order to have effect.  That is why I was LMAO at the notion that some 14 yr old could copy something the 2 posted and wreck havoc.  lol

As for the second part, I guess it is a good thing that your don't read the local newspapers.


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Yes, people over there in general, couldn't give a rat *** about MA anymore than the JoeBlow over here does. But just walk in any bookstores in any Chinese dominated cities, and you will come across tons of MA texts. Dim Mak is a Chinese art. The Japanese may not know squat about it.*



In Japanese, striking vital points is referred to as both _atemi_ and _kyusho_.  Were RyuShiKan able to post, I am sure he could clarify the differences even further.  It is known and present in Japan as it is in other parts of Asia.  My point, however, was that your assertion that Chinese dominated cities have scads of volumes dedicated to the art are not necessarily any better in quality that the scads of translations available in the US.



> *Dim Mak is Cantonese for "stiking" the "mak" with the "mak" being the "vital points" (for the lack of a better word).  The charts plot those maks on the human body. In authentic Dim Mak, each of this mak is a target that correspondents to one of the 12 time zones. (I am over simplifying here. It has a lot more than this.) (I assume you already know that the Chinese time zone is 12 zones for our 24 hours, ie each of their hour = 2 of the regular hours we use.  Of course, that was the past custom. Most modern day Chinese cannot evev tell you what those 12 time zones are. )  In DIm Mak, you target the mak according to the desired strike effect (ie how your target dies ) in accordance to the time zone.*



Actually, it is not so much the "time zones" as it is a reference to where the _qi_ has accumulated at any given time of the day.  It is allegedly concentrated in certain meridians at certain times of the day, and striking points along meridians wherein _qi_ has accumulated causes much more telling effects...



> *I hate to break the news to you. You have not read the local newspapers in most Chinese dominated cities.  Read the crime page. Murder weapon of choice, the meat cleaver, Samurai blade, and this special 3 sided pointed tool used for metal work (it has a hardened needle sharp point and 3 blades, hence it opens up a nasty wound channel direct to vital organs. Most victims simply bled to death.*



Please provide me with references to this...  I would love to know what cities have hordes of samurai sword wielding lunatics wandering about on quests to avenge their personal honor...  If I remember correctly, the weapon of choice in the US is a butcher knife as well, but I could be wrong.  We don't, however, have swarms of butcher knife wielding loonies rushing up and down the streets.  Crime statistics in any country can be read in numerous ways.  Somehow I question the authenticity of the stats you refer to.



> *Self-defence is frown upon in Asia?  HA! Please pull your head put of the sand dune. Settling score is the hottest thing!  Ever heard of the term "saving face"?  Or the Chinese proverb," For a gentleman, settling scores and getting even, even if it takes 10 years, is never too late"   LMAO. That is actually taught in high school!  How the hell can you even come up with such assertion?  For the Chinese, (and most Asians who are not devouted Buddhists, or Christians), you are OBLIGATED to settle score and get even! .  Else, you are not worthy of your family name, whatever hell that may happen to be.*



Except for the fact that Japanese law prohibits self-defense (*both* sides of the fight are punished, regardless of the circumstances), and Chinese law is harsh regarding such conflicts as well...  Again, the picture you paint of everyday life in these countries is in firm contradiction to the way things really are.



> *I am sure your experience in Japan is a sheltered one.*



You're right...  I led a very sheltered life in Japan.  I had to, you see, in order to avoid bumping into a rogue samurai who might have then been obligated to save his family honor by challenging me to a duel... 



> *LOL, people like you, are what they call "stupid American tourists"  LOL. I don't mean it as a disrespect. It is entirely possible that your occupation requirement made it necessary that you interact within certain circles of well to do, well educated, higher echelons of the society.*



If I am a "stupid American tourist," what does that make you?  You still haven't explained your vast experience in these unnamed cities in Asia wherein you have gained such first hand knowledge of crime and vendettas.  My occupation, for what it is worth, brought me in contact not with the well educated, higher echelons of society, but with everyday, regular folks...  



> *"Widely known" as in," over in Asia, within the Chinese communities,  the existence of such an ancient art called Dim Mak is a widely known fact. Information about the maks and the effect of striking those maks, is in public domain. And in Asian, there is no such thing as "NC17"  Those books are certainly not kept away from the kids.*



Yeah, and kids in Japan all know about ninjas...  Doesn't mean that hiring a ninja is the method of choice for Japanese people to settle disputes or get ahead in competition with other businesses.



> *"Guarantee that Dim Mak is barely known"?  LMAO. You wanna bet? Call up any Chinese kid and ask him if he has ever heard of Dim Mak. The only problem would be, he might not heard of this English term. But I guarantee you, he has heard of Dim Mak in Chinese.  Dim Mak is the cream of the crop of Chinese MA. An ancient lost art. You can bet your *** that every Chinese kid knows what it is.  May be Japanese kids don't. That I wouldn't know. *



Again, Japanese kids all know about ninja, but ninja certainly aren't walking around the streets of Tokyo...  

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## chufeng

I did an internet search (using two search engines, google and yahoo)...looking for violence with edged weapons in Asia...

Every reference to China or Japan was historical in nature...
Every current incident was in India, Sri Lanka, or the Middle East.

So, I would ask that you provide us with your reference for this wide spread meat-cleaver violence...

:asian:
chufeng


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> In Japanese, striking vital points is referred to as both _atemi_ and _kyusho_.  Were RyuShiKan able to post, I am sure he could clarify the differences even further.  It is known and present in Japan as it is in other parts of Asia.  My point, however, was that your assertion that Chinese dominated cities have scads of volumes dedicated to the art are not necessarily any better in quality that the scads of translations available in the US.


Haven't seen any US translation. Can't comment on that. But needless to say, for every 1 Chinese text that is of acceptable quality, there is a dozen that are junk. Same sh*&%$ everywhere around the world.



> Actually, it is not so much the "time zones" as it is a reference to where the _qi_ has accumulated at any given time of the day.  It is allegedly concentrated in certain meridians at certain times of the day, and striking points along meridians wherein _qi_ has accumulated causes much more telling effects...


Out of my league. I don't know much about _qi_. I was just quoting based on what I understood from reading the text. 

Don't forget that this whole debate started with my asking if there is any current evidence of Dim Mak. Hence I am not here to preach on DM.  lol



> Please provide me with references to this...  I would love to know what cities have hordes of samurai sword wielding lunatics wandering about on quests to avenge their personal honor...  If I remember correctly, the weapon of choice in the US is a butcher knife as well, but I could be wrong.  We don't, however, have swarms of butcher knife wielding loonies rushing up and down the streets.  Crime statistics in any country can be read in numerous ways.  Somehow I question the authenticity of the stats you refer to.


Don't be ridiculous. There is no hordes of ronins running around any where.  

1. You stated that fighting is frowned upon in Asia and even self-defence is disapproved. I can assure that, that is for foreign consumption. Afterall, that kind of bad image, is bad for tourism.  

2. Getting even and settling score, are definitely not empty words. There are millions of ways of settling scores and getting even. But don't kid yourself. They keep score. The book will be balanced, eventually. Unlike what Americans and the western world are like to think, in many parts of the world, people settle their scores, behind the scene. They don't go around chewing their lips off, bragging about "honor" and blahblahblah. They are perfectly happy with stabbing you in the back, without you ever finding out it was them settling score.  For example, the Iranians blew up the car driven by the the wife of the Captain of USS Vincent, and took out the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie (sp). They did those to avenge the accidental shot down of the Iranian jetliner by the USS Vincent.

In reference to crime statistics, in Asia, official statistics is considered part of foreign policy, ie, it is a matter of national interest to present the most favourable to the world.  With that, one should realize how reliable are those numbers, whatever field they refer to.  

* If you wish to know what is really happening in Asia, learn the language, the custom and live among them. Then you can have access to their mind and soul.  Asians have this thing, I don't know what you call it, they would defend and argue till they drop about how great things are at their end and they will never allow you to bad mouth anything about them, no matter how trivia it is. ONLY when left along, among themselves, then they start complaining and whining about how rotten everything really is. LMAO. If you can tab into that channel, then you can learn the real deals. *

My parents were ex-pats. I spent over a decade in Asia. My grandparents were buried on top of a hill on the other side of the earth. They were loyal British subjects, who served the Crown as colonists.  I speak several dialects.




> Except for the fact that Japanese law prohibits self-defense (*both* sides of the fight are punished, regardless of the circumstances), and Chinese law is harsh regarding such conflicts as well...  Again, the picture you paint of everyday life in these countries is in firm contradiction to the way things really are.


I have to laugh at the notion that since fighting is frown upon, and hence that it does not happen in Asia. You have got to be kidding me!!  LM"Freaking"AO.  Prostitution, gambling, drug running, smuggling are all frown upon in Japan.  Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that none of those happen in Japan??  LMAO

Chinese LAW? HA! You have got to be kidding me!!  Chinese LAW and "arbitrary justice" is 2 sides of the same coin.  In China, anything can happen to you, if the STATE apparatus wishes so.

China only begin to wake up to the rule of law. CHina has the worse of both communist totalitanism and robber-baron capitalism. 

I am sorry if my cynicsm comes across as personal and disrespectful. I do not  mean it to be personal at all. Rather, I have nothing but contempt for the FAKE  tranquil, peaceful and harmonious images the Asians have successfully sold to the rest of the world.



> You're right...  I led a very sheltered life in Japan.  I had to, you see, in order to avoid bumping into a rogue samurai who might have then been obligated to save his family honor by challenging me to a duel...
> 
> If I am a "stupid American tourist," what does that make you?  You still haven't explained your vast experience in these unnamed cities in Asia wherein you have gained such first hand knowledge of crime and vendettas.  My occupation, for what it is worth, brought me in contact not with the well educated, higher echelons of society, but with everyday, regular folks...


You work for Uncle Sam. LOL The hardest challenge you faced was at the local bars catering to GI, in Japan. 

Look, you couldn't have experienced what I have. I worked with locals who thought nothing of slicing your head off.  Life was cheap there, foreign or local.



> Yeah, and kids in Japan all know about ninjas...  Doesn't mean that hiring a ninja is the method of choice for Japanese people to settle disputes or get ahead in competition with other businesses.
> 
> Again, Japanese kids all know about ninja, but ninja certainly aren't walking around the streets of Tokyo...



I suppose you have not heard of the Yakuza?  

Besides, Japan is NOT the whole Asia. And is noway representative of Asia


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *Haven't seen any US translation. Can't comment on that. But needless to say, for every 1 Chinese text that is of acceptable quality, there is a dozen that are junk. Same sh*&%$ everywhere around the world.*/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No argument there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Out of my league. I don't know much about qi. I was just quoting based on what I understood from reading the text.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your understanding isn't necessarily incorrect, just not as far reaching as it could be.  I only understand a very small amount of vital point striking myself...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't forget that this whole debate started with my asking if there is any current evidence of Dim Mak. Hence I am not here to preach on DM.  lol*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit, we may have drifted away from the original questions...  Current evidence?  I doubt that an M.E. in some county coroner's shop would really know what to look for...  They would see (maybe) some bruising and have someone dead on their table.  Beyond that, who knows what they would say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't be ridiculous. There is no hordes of ronins running around any where.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My comment was intended to be ludicrous.  I was simply pointing out that the way you came across made it sound as if every square inch of Asia was covered with vendetta-pursuing, cleaver-wielding nut jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1. You stated that fighting is frowned upon in Asia and even self-defence is disapproved. I can assure that, that is for foreign consumption. Afterall, that kind of bad image, is bad for tourism.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I admit that my experience is limited to Korea of 12+ years ago, and Japan for the last 4, but I know for a fact that the law patently forbids fighting in self-defense in Japan.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2. Getting even and settling score, are definitely not empty words. There are millions of ways of settling scores and getting even. But don't kid yourself. They keep score. The book will be balanced, eventually. Unlike what Americans and the western world are like to think, in many parts of the world, people settle their scores, behind the scene. They don't go around chewing their lips off, bragging about "honor" and blahblahblah. They are perfectly happy with stabbing you in the back, without you ever finding out it was them settling score.  For example, the Iranians blew up the car driven by the the wife of the Captain of USS Vincent, and took out the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie (sp). They did those to avenge the accidental shot down of the Iranian jetliner by the USS Vincent.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hope I didn't come across as seeming to think that revenge was _never_ pursued.  I know it is.  However, as I stated above, your comment seemed a bit over the top regarding the volume of vengeful Asians following up on settling old scores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In reference to crime statistics, in Asia, official statistics is considered part of foreign policy, ie, it is a matter of national interest to present the most favourable to the world.  With that, one should realize how reliable are those numbers, whatever field they refer to.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps your experience is different than mine, what with your being on the streets of Asia and all, but I work in law, and specifically dealt with the interaction between the US Government and the Government of Japan regarding legal issues.  Crime statistics, at least in Japan, are not secret matters of state.  They exist, and are publicized in daily newspapers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *My parents were ex-pats. I spent over a decade in Asia. My grandparents were buried on top of a hill on the other side of the earth. They were loyal British subjects, who served the Crown as colonists.  I speak several dialects.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be that as it may, you still haven't detailed your decade of experience.  When were you there, at what age, and in what countries?  I'm not necessarily trying to poke holes in your comments, but if you don't provide details it makes it difficult for me to understand where you are coming from with your story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I have to laugh at the notion that since fighting is frown upon, and hence that it does not happen in Asia. You have got to be kidding me!!  LM"Freaking"AO.  Prostitution, gambling, drug running, smuggling are all frown upon in Japan.  Are you going to tell me, with a straight face, that none of those happen in Japan??  LMAO*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said it didn't happen.  I said it didn't happen quite the way you portrayed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You work for Uncle Sam. LOL The hardest challenge you faced was at the local bars catering to GI, in Japan.  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand you probably intended that comment to be taken in good fun, but personally I am extremely offended on a number of levels...  I'm not even going to give voice to the ways in which that angers me.  Suffice it to say that up until this part of your post, I thought we would likely be able to reach some degree of agreement on this thread...  :angry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Look, you couldn't have experienced what I have. I worked with locals who thought nothing of slicing your head off.  Life was cheap there, foreign or local.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I suppose you have not heard of the Yakuza?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have.  Have you ever had to deal with them face to face?  If so, you would find they are not quite the way they are portrayed in the media...  :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Besides, Japan is NOT the whole Asia. And is noway representative of Asia *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said it was.  Just provided the info as background from where my beliefs stem.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> ....I understand you probably intended that comment to be taken in good fun, but personally I am extremely offended on a number of levels...  I'm not even going to give voice to the ways in which that angers me.  Suffice it to say that up until this part of your post, I thought we would likely be able to reach some degree of agreement on this thread...  :angry:



I don't have time to address the rest. have to just deal with this first.

Oh c'mon.  You being in the military, haven't you heard enough of the army jokes along the line  about an army guy bragging about his war wound and all, then his army buddy chimed in with ," Yeah, he got that from falling off a bar stool" ?  LOL

You are JAG. Are you a trial lawyer? I would assume a little elbow to the rib ought to be something you are accustomed to.


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## Johnathan Napalm

I don't want to go on the internet and participate in a "my XYZ is bigger than yours" kind of argument.  It is silly to argue about "Have you dealed with the Yakuza? Well I have." Then it will just get to " No. But have you done this and that....blahblahblah.."

I have my experience in another part of the world. It is a lot different from that of a typical military line or staff personel. You have Uncle Sam behind you. People like me and my parents, do not. People in your position will always be accorted preferrential treatment.  That is the way the world works.  We tend to think the rest of the world would look at us in such and such way. But more often than not, they actually look at us very differently from what we have pressumed they would. 

Asians will always harbor "us vs the outsiders" mentality.  Every thing is done for show.  I think our foreign policy biggest failure is due to our lack of understanding of how the rest of the world thinks. We assume they see things the way we do, afterall we are a rational people, and so do they. Right?  Unfortunately, things are never as clear cut.  Other people care a lot about things and issues, that we Americans don't give a rat *** about. OTOH, we care a lot about things that they have utter contempt for.


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## chufeng

JN,

I can address some of what Yiliquan1 was alluding to...

In the past, during the draft, many soldiers did, in fact, get out of hand...and of course, those are the only stories we hear about...

The Army of today is vastly different (I know, I've seen the military of the sixties, through my uncle, and experienced the military from the mid 1970s to the present)...today's soldier is professional, courteous, and genuinely cares about how he is perceived by the public...it is extremely frustrating for today's soldier to have to deal with the prejudgements of those who still want to hold the older stereotypes up as HOW our soldiers are today...Most soldiers are high-school graduates; many hold associate's degrees, bachelor's degrees, and some even have master's degrees (NO, I'm not talking about the officer corps...I'm talking about those who do the work, day in and day out, the enlisted soldier)...

Further, your comment assumed that Yiliquan1 was a "typical" (read stereotyped in the wrong way) soldier who got off work and ate chow and then hit the bars...WRONG!!!

He is a family man and has two beautiful and gifted children...
He would finish work and go home to his family, just like so many "normal" Americans do...
His excursions into the Japanese scene was not as a tourist but as a seeker...he trained with a variety of martial artists...he offered classes...he mingled with the common folks...

NO, say it ain't so...but I do say it is so...he showed the locals the respect they deserved...not the "I am an American, and therefore you should respect me," but the, "Thank you for hosting me in this wonderful country," sort of way...

It seems that you LYAO a lot in your posts...unfortunate, because some of us actually want to share some good information...

I appreciate your intrusions from time to time...keeps us on our toes and honest...but you occasionally cross the line...I can forgive that, but remember that on the other end of your keyboard is another HUMAN being...

Godspeed to the soldiers who do an outstanding job every day...
It is because of their own spilt blood that dissenters are able to express their twisted views of reality...we hold dear the freedoms granted by our constitution, even to those who would beat us over the head with those same freedoms.

:asian:
chufeng


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## Johnathan Napalm

I was joking about his "biggest challenge was at the local bar". Look, the guy is JAG. No one would dare to touch his hair!  

I made no assumption about what he did in Japan or anywhere or how he conducts his off-base social life. Not even talking about those at all.

My point was, he was an officer, a representative of the US in a foreign land.  His circle of interaction was affected by his official status. You don't get to do what you want when you represent Uncle Sam.

IF you are a representative of the USA, you get preferential treatment. That is ALL I WAS SAYING.


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## chufeng

No, he's not a JAG officer...
He's a paralegal NCO...

You've assumed something about him again...
Get the facts straight before commenting next time.

:asian:
chufeng


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## Matt Stone

> _Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm _
> *I was joking about his "biggest challenge was at the local bar". Look, the guy is JAG. No one would dare to touch his hair!*



What precisely is that intended to mean?



> *I made no assumption about what he did in Japan or anywhere or how he conducts his off-base social life. Not even talking about those at all.*



Your assumption was that I frequented places of questionable orientation.  Your assumption was that you know anything about me at all...



> *My point was, he was an officer, a representative of the US in a foreign land.*



I am an officer.  A _noncommissioned_ officer, a *sergeant*, a leader of fighting men and women.  I have been an Infantryman, a Cavalry Scout, a sniper, a drill sergeant and now I serve as a military paralegal supporting one of the largest military legal offices in the Army.  And now you know...



> *His circle of interaction was affected by his official status. You don't get to do what you want when you represent Uncle Sam.*



Assumption #2.  My circle of interaction had nothing to do with my military duties.  I went out of my way to get away from the installation, to immerse myself as deeply into the local culture and community as I could.  My friends were regular, everyday folks with a large array of interests from a wide range of backgrounds.  If anything, I was treated much more harshly for having been a service member when my duty status was ever an issue.

The best friends I had over there were expatriates - two Americans (RyuShiKan, and Silent Dan from E-budo), an Irish Brit (Kimpatsu from E-budo), a German (Mark Brecht from E-budo), a Canadian (Jeff Hamacher from E-budo), and a host of local nationals, all Japanese.  The expatriates all varied in the duration of their stay in Japan, from only a few years to RyuShiKan's 14.  All of them are/were fluent in Japanese, all were martial artists, and all had a rather interesting taste of Japan's invisible side.

And again, now you know.



> *IF you are a representative of the USA, you get preferential treatment. That is ALL I WAS SAYING. *



First you say that you received poor treatment overseas, then you say as an American you get preferential treatment.  So which is it?  The only treatment I ever got was from what I earned by showing my hosts I knew how to behave...

Thanks for asking.  :shrug:   I'm still waiting to hear details of your extensive background in Asia.  With all you have said, it must make for interesting reading.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


----------



## yilisifu

Uhmmmmm...I WAS in bookstores...very LARGE ones in Beijing and Shanghai and found NO books on dim mak and only a few on martial arts at all (and they were very poor, to say the least).

In modern China, fighting for any reason is frowned upon.  I hate to break the news, but people do not go hacking at each with cleavers or anything else.  Each practice fighting (outside of government-sponsored or recognized sanda classes) is discouraged.

Most Chinese youngsters in China have no idea what dim mak is...

The "Orient" decribed earlier as "a place where they wouldn't have a second thought about slicing your head off" barely exists anymore (except in old movies).  Maybe there are a handful of areas wherein such violence occurs regularly, but by and large, it isn't at all what it used to be...

The assumptions made about Yiliquan 1 due to his military status were ridiculous and uncalled for.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *No, he's not a JAG officer...
> He's a paralegal NCO...
> 
> You've assumed something about him again...
> Get the facts straight before commenting next time.
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng *



No assumption taken. He mentioned being a JAG officer himself in a previous post. I suppose I can search for that post, if necessary. Else I would not have mentioned he is JAG.


----------



## Matt Stone

I never, ever said I was a JAG officer (thereby implying that I was an attorney and a commissioned officer).

I am an enlisted soldier, a Sergeant (E-5 Promotable), a military paralegal (which is what *all* enlisted members of the Judge Advocate General's Corps are - military paralegals.

Never once did I state or imply, overtly or covertly, that I was a commissioned officer and attorney.  To do so would be in violation of federal law and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Period.

And arguing with Chufeng about my status, given that he has been both enlisted _and_ officer, works on the same post I am stationed at and has known me personally for over 14 years would be nothing more than an exercise in futility.  He knows me far better than you likely ever will (since we don't live anywhere near each other and all...).

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> What precisely is that intended to mean?


If you were JAG, you would be unlikely to have other people get in your way.  Military personnel prefer NOT to "get in the way of JAG or anyone from Criminal Investigation"  



> Your assumption was that I frequented places of questionable orientation.  Your assumption was that you know anything about me at all...


EXCUSE ME? You are putting words in my mouth now. 
Good lord! I mentioned that the biggest challenge you might face is in the local bar catering to GIs.  Hello?  JUST WHAT THE HECK did you read from that?  Is there any military personnel who has NEVER being to a local bar??  You seem to have read WAY MORE than what I posted. It would be helpful if you would let me know just what you read from it. Then we ALL CAN BE ON THE SAME PAGE HERE.


> I am an officer.  A _noncommissioned_ officer, a *sergeant*, a leader of fighting men and women.  I have been an Infantryman, a Cavalry Scout, a sniper, a drill sergeant and now I serve as a military paralegal supporting one of the largest military legal offices in the Army.  And now you know...


I remember reading you mentioned that you work in JAG now. I thought by that you mean you are a JAG officer. 



> Assumption #2.  My circle of interaction had nothing to do with my military duties.  I went out of my way to get away from the installation, to immerse myself as deeply into the local culture and community as I could.  My friends were regular, everyday folks with a large array of interests from a wide range of backgrounds.  If anything, I was treated much more harshly for having been a service member when my duty status was ever an issue.
> 
> The best friends I had over there were expatriates - two Americans (RyuShiKan, and Silent Dan from E-budo), an Irish Brit (Kimpatsu from E-budo), a German (Mark Brecht from E-budo), a Canadian (Jeff Hamacher from E-budo), and a host of local nationals, all Japanese.  The expatriates all varied in the duration of their stay in Japan, from only a few years to RyuShiKan's 14.  All of them are/were fluent in Japanese, all were martial artists, and all had a rather interesting taste of Japan's invisible side.
> 
> And again, now you know.


Thanks for sharing.



> First you say that you received poor treatment overseas, then you say as an American you get preferential treatment.  So which is it?  The only treatment I ever got was from what I earned by showing my hosts I knew how to behave...


As an American _repesenting_ Uncle Sam, you would get preferential treatment.  As an ordinary American, then it depends on how well you adapt to the local way of doing things.



> Thanks for asking.  :shrug:   I'm still waiting to hear details of your extensive background in Asia.  With all you have said, it must make for interesting reading.


It would make a novel.  WARNING!!  Might put you to sleep!!

My grandparents worked for the Crown as colonists. Became landowner during the Japanese occupation in WWII.  Riiight. How could you become landowner during the invasion?  Better yet, why would the British let my grandpa kept all the properties granted to him FREE by the Imperial Japanese Army, when he was apparently the enemy?  Family secret. No one knows (those who knew took everything to the grave). My parents ran plantations, taught at missionary schools.  I spent a large part of my childhood ON THE BEACH, TROPICAL ISLAND PARADISE!  lol

I started working with the locals even when I was young enough to be their son. It was easier to deal with them if you happened to be the one who paid them.  You are talking about people who think nothing of killing, let alone fighting.  Everyday, you could scan through the frontpage and there would be several killings.  Gruesome pictures were never censored.  Unfortunately no one was immune from the harm of lawlessness.  We have many friends who lost their lives to this lawless killing.  It didn't matter if you were a priest, doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur, teacher or housewife.  All are likely victims of robbery, home invasion, piracy, revenge, random crime.

Every house was (still is) literary a fortress. You have bars on every windows and doors. Flood light. Siren alarm. Guard dogs.  Most community is guarded. I remember there was this one time, a gang of seaborne pirates were repusled in an attempt to rob one residential community half a mile from our estate. This bunch of nuts ran for their lives with a team of armed guards on their tails. They broke throught the fences and dashed through our house perimeter, triggering alarm and all hell broke loose. My mom was going nuts looking at the alarm system, trying to figure out where the breach was. The neighbors were firing waring shots into the air. You have a team of armed guards screaming their lung out at us, about wanting to enter our estate to pursue the pirates. Of course, we didn't know what the heck was going on. It made for one hell of an argument in the middle night. 

Life was cheaper in a lawless land.  You treat people they want to be treated.  If they were ignorant about their health, there wasn't much you could do but just go with it. You let them eat ration that you know would give them cancer down the road.  It didn't matter if you argue with them that the food was contaminated, they were going to eat it anyway. Today, I am ashamed of the way I have treated the locals.  I have valued their health and their lives, the way their ignorance have betrayed them.  We didn't consider them as fellow human beings. Harsh as that may sound, that was the way things were. We didn't make the rules. We lived with them.

I was at one time associated with an extortion outfit.  It was one of those things where one of your buddies was a member of an  organized crime outfit, and you got a free ride on protection.  No one would give you trouble b/c of your gangster friend. If you want someone roughed up, just give his name to your friend. When you were young and foolish and you lived with the illusion of loyalty and all that, your friends have a lot of influence on you, good or bad.

When you grew up, you became quite a different person. But you still carry a lot of the past as baggage.  To this day, I am quite insensitive to people getting pissed. It just seems so petty and trivial the kind of things people tend to get pissed over.  When you have lived through seeing people you love died in front of you, because of a decision you made, very little in life seems to matter anymore. So you tend to sneer when people whine about seemingly petty little problems.

I left all that behind and broke all contact with the past. I have a different life now.  

I understand that without offering anything specific, this is no better than a tall tale, something to be dimissed as internet BS.  So be it.  I have more to lose by talking too much than to care about popping up my internet persona at this forum.  If people dismiss this story, fine with me. I don't care. Your comment has no impact on my life, whatsoever.  lol


----------



## Zepp

Right.  OK, so that armpit pressure point can be good for numbing an opponents arm, and possibly stunning them.  Rumor has it that striking that point can kill, so be careful using it in training.

Also, Americans with a genuine interest in the culture of an Asian people can earn their respect and friendship, while Asians generally like hacking up British colonials with meat cleavers whenever they get the chance.


----------



## chufeng

> My grandparents worked for the Crown as colonists. Became landowner during the Japanese occupation in WWII. Riiight. How could you become landowner during the invasion? Better yet, why would the British let my grandpa kept all the properties granted to him FREE by the Imperial Japanese Army, when he was apparently the enemy? Family secret.



Double agent? Traitor to the crown? Who knows, right?



> (those who knew took everything to the grave).



How convenient.



> My parents ran plantations, taught at missionary schools.



So were they exploiting the people by running plantations or saving them by their missionary work? I don't know of very many missionaries who run cheap labor camps.



> I started working with the locals even when I was young enough to be their son. It was easier to deal with them if you happened to be the one who paid them. You are talking about people who think nothing of killing, let alone fighting. Everyday, you could scan through the frontpage and there would be several killings.



So, you were a little mafioso?
Or just a spoiled son of a landowner who used his mom and dad's money to bully his way through the locals?
...and what year was this?  Hong Kong, you say...



> Every house was (still is) literary a fortress. You have bars on every windows and doors. Flood light. Siren alarm. Guard dogs. Most community is guarded.



Doesn't sound like the housing for "common" folk to me. 



> Life was cheaper in a lawless land. You treat people they want to be treated. If they were ignorant about their health, there wasn't much you could do but just go with it. You let them eat ration that you know would give them cancer down the road.



So, life was cheap for you...
Again, spoiled son of a rich landowner...
The "riff-raff" you fed these bad rations to didn't mean much to you did they?
Since you were the son of a rich land-owner (allegedly) do you really think that YOU were treated just like the people on the street? NOT...and Hong Kong is not representative of all of Asia...
Certainly not representative of China, Taiwan, Thailand, or Japan.

but, back to your tall tale...



> I was at one time associated with an extortion outfit. It was one of those things where one of your buddies was a member of an organized crime outfit, and you got a free ride on protection. No one would give you trouble b/c of your gangster friend.



If there is any truth in your story, it is more likely that Daddy and Mummsy paid to keep you safe.



> I left all that behind and broke all contact with the past. I have a different life now



You got therapy and the medicine is working...delusions are now under control 



> I understand that without offering anything specific, this is no better than a tall tale, something to be dimissed as internet BS. So be it.



So be it.

Thanks for the facinating read...

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> Double agent? Traitor to the crown? Who knows, right?
> 
> How convenient.


Don't know. We asked, but no one wanted to talk about it. By now,  those who knew are dead. 



> So were they exploiting the people by running plantations or saving them by their missionary work? I don't know of very many missionaries who run cheap labor camps.


My parents taught at missionary schools for many years. They were not missionaries.

Labor there was [still is] cheap. You pay them the prevailing wage. It is sad.   I am not defending the practice.



> So, you were a little mafioso?
> Or just a spoiled son of a landowner who used his mom and dad's money to bully his way through the locals?
> ...and what year was this?  Hong Kong, you say...


I have never mentioned HK. Besides, where in HK do they have land for plantation?

Mafiaso? lol. To be more accurate, JUVENILE DELINQUENT! lol




> Doesn't sound like the housing for "common" folk to me.


Yes. It would seem like a PRISON to most Americans, unless if you live in the ghetto where you need triple locks on your doors and the windows are barred. lol

In a land where Law Enforcement is a joke and "arbitrary", the citizen have to fend for themselves. 



> So, life was cheap for you...
> Again, spoiled son of a rich landowner...
> The "riff-raff" you fed these bad rations to didn't mean much to you did they?
> Since you were the son of a rich land-owner (allegedly) do you really think that YOU were treated just like the people on the street? NOT...and Hong Kong is not representative of all of Asia...
> Certainly not representative of China, Taiwan, Thailand, or Japan.


Hardly a spoiled brat. More like "that never do-well, worthless,no son of ours"  .

Not in HK. Haven't studied much about Asia, have you?  lol

I was NOT treated like the locals, but I was "accepted" as one of them, b/c I happened to be the ""that never do-well, worthless,no son of ours" blacksheep of the family.

To be brutally honest, the "riff-raff" didn't mean much to anyone. As for me, I was young and ignorant and couldn't careless.



> but, back to your tall tale...
> 
> If there is any truth in your story, it is more likely that Daddy and Mummsy paid to keep you safe.
> 
> You got therapy and the medicine is working...delusions are now under control
> 
> So be it.
> 
> Thanks for the facinating read...
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng



hahaha. Figured something like this would be said.  If I cared about polishing my ego, I could have given specific timelines and locale.  But the first rule of survival in the international arena is, "What others do not know, CANNOT hurt ME."  :asian:  

Now, if you would excuse me, I hear voices telling me to wash the spiders off my legs before I go train at the gym.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Zepp _
> ...Also, Americans with a genuine interest in the culture of an Asian people can earn their respect and friendship, while Asians generally like hacking up British colonials with meat cleavers whenever they get the chance.



Haven't been to Asia lately, huh?

(For your info, the British were the best colonists. And all the colonies have benefitted tremeduously from the infrastructure and administration system they put in place. The biggest butt of joke of the former colonies is, "if we invited the British to come back, our former colonial masters would laugh their *** off, b/c we have ruined everything after they left." This is from the members of the Commonwealth.)

Being an American these days, is not exactly a hot shot in the international arena. People envy us. But they neither like us, nor want to be like us. Envy is not the same thing as respect.

To be safe, tell them you are a CANADIAN.  Then your *** is safe no matter where you go. You can pretend to be a Norwagian (sp?) too, but you might get busted if they happened to ask you how to say something in the language.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *I never, ever said I was a JAG officer (thereby implying that I was an attorney and a commissioned officer).
> 
> I am an enlisted soldier, a Sergeant (E-5 Promotable), a military paralegal (which is what all enlisted members of the Judge Advocate General's Corps are - military paralegals.
> 
> Never once did I state or imply, overtly or covertly, that I was a commissioned officer and attorney.  To do so would be in violation of federal law and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
> 
> Period.
> 
> And arguing with Chufeng about my status, given that he has been both enlisted and officer, works on the same post I am stationed at and has known me personally for over 14 years would be nothing more than an exercise in futility.  He knows me far better than you likely ever will (since we don't live anywhere near each other and all...).
> 
> Gambarimasu.
> :asian: *



LOL, who is arguing? If you are NOT a JAG officer then you are NOT. What's there to argue over?  I was just telling him that I didn't put the JAG association out of thin air.

The only reason I associated you with JAG, is b/c I read you mentioned working at JAG. My mistake in assuming that you were a JAG officer.  Didn't know you are actually a NCO Paralegal assigned to JAG.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *I did an internet search (using two search engines, google and yahoo)...looking for violence with edged weapons in Asia...
> 
> Every reference to China or Japan was historical in nature...
> Every current incident was in India, Sri Lanka, or the Middle East.
> 
> So, I would ask that you provide us with your reference for this wide spread meat-cleaver violence...
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng *



You cannot be seriously saying that if you can't find something on GOOGLE and Yahoo, then it must not exist.  LMAO. Don't you think how silly that sounds?  Most of the things that happen in other countries, NEVER make it to the foreign wire!  

Violent crimes happen daily in all Asian metros (except for a few one). Check the local newspapers. Not those published for foreign consumption.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> Uhmmmmm...I WAS in bookstores...very LARGE ones in Beijing and Shanghai and found NO books on dim mak and only a few on martial arts at all (and they were very poor, to say the least).


If you have lived in China, you would know for a fact that the communist regime has discouraged all MA, using the excuse that "comrades DO NOT fight comrades" (LMAO! Except that "we just poison them or murder them when they get in the way".)

"WuShu" (sp) was created by Beijing when they found that this is something they can use to polish their international image. "WuShu" is more closer to acrobat than the real McCoy.

So, it should be NO surprising to any one that China is not the best place to get public info on MA.



> In modern China, fighting for any reason is frowned upon.  I hate to break the news, but people do not go hacking at each with cleavers or anything else.  Each practice fighting (outside of government-sponsored or recognized sanda classes) is discouraged.


That is what happens in a TOTALITARIAN regime. It is to maintain authority CONTROL.

You cannot go live in China and pretend you know what happen in other parts, cities, metros in Asia.  CHina is vastly different from say, Thailand, or Indonesia.

Needless to say that ordinary folks don't go commit hineous crimes to save face.  That is the same everywhere. But in every free society (China is a communist controlled authoritarian country), you have a segment of society made up of basically predatory criminals as well as violent elements.  

Asians have this thing about "not to wash dirty laundry in public". If you don't hear something via the public channel, it doesn't mean it is not happening.



> Most Chinese youngsters in China have no idea what dim mak is...


see above.



> The "Orient" decribed earlier as "a place where they wouldn't have a second thought about slicing your head off" barely exists anymore (except in old movies).  Maybe there are a handful of areas wherein such violence occurs regularly, but by and large, it isn't at all what it used to be...


hahahahaha.  You don't know what you are talking about. 

Try 1. Indonesia, 2. Phillipines, 3. Malaysia, 4. Burma etc. Oh and especially the mean streets of all major metropolitan cities. There are endless numbers of places where you can get your head sliced off.

If you are only thinking in terms of massacre in the scale of Rwanda, then, NO.





> The assumptions made about Yiliquan 1 due to his military status were ridiculous and uncalled for.


Again, just what assumption have you all interpreted?  I only ASSUMED he was a JAG officer. Other than that, I assumed JACK **** !!  If you would tell me what assumption I made, I would appreciate it, 'cause then I could address it.

_Edited to conform with MartialTalk standards. -Arnisador_


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> JN,
> 
> I can address some of what Yiliquan1 was alluding to...
> 
> In the past, during the draft, many soldiers did, in fact, get out of hand...and of course, those are the only stories we hear about...
> 
> The Army of today is vastly different (I know, I've seen the military of the sixties, through my uncle, and experienced the military from the mid 1970s to the present)...today's soldier is professional, courteous, and genuinely cares about how he is perceived by the public...it is extremely frustrating for today's soldier to have to deal with the prejudgements of those who still want to hold the older stereotypes up as HOW our soldiers are today...Most soldiers are high-school graduates; many hold associate's degrees, bachelor's degrees, and some even have master's degrees (NO, I'm not talking about the officer corps...I'm talking about those who do the work, day in and day out, the enlisted soldier)...
> 
> Further, your comment assumed that Yiliquan1 was a "typical" (read stereotyped in the wrong way) soldier who got off work and ate chow and then hit the bars...WRONG!!!
> 
> He is a family man and has two beautiful and gifted children...
> He would finish work and go home to his family, just like so many "normal" Americans do...
> His excursions into the Japanese scene was not as a tourist but as a seeker...he trained with a variety of martial artists...he offered classes...he mingled with the common folks...
> 
> NO, say it ain't so...but I do say it is so...he showed the locals the respect they deserved...not the "I am an American, and therefore you should respect me," but the, "Thank you for hosting me in this wonderful country," sort of way...
> 
> It seems that you LYAO a lot in your posts...unfortunate, because some of us actually want to share some good information...
> 
> I appreciate your intrusions from time to time...keeps us on our toes and honest...but you occasionally cross the line...I can forgive that, but remember that on the other end of your keyboard is another HUMAN being...
> 
> Godspeed to the soldiers who do an outstanding job every day...
> It is because of their own spilt blood that dissenters are able to express their twisted views of reality...we hold dear the freedoms granted by our constitution, even to those who would beat us over the head with those same freedoms.
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng



Look, I am sure he is a good man and all that. I have made no statement to the contrary, and I would have no basis for doing so.

I think you all are over sensitive about something. 

You need to know that I am extremely pro law and order, as well as pro- military.  If any of you thought I was the left-wing liberal, that could not be farther from the truth.  I have nothing but the highest respect for the men and women who put their lives in harm's way so that the rest may continue to live in the American way of life.  Needless to say, in any organization, there are deadwood, perfume princes, free-loaders and cowards. I don't automatically give anyone a free past just b/c he/she is in the service.  But I certainly would NEVER disrespect someone b/c he/she is in the military.

My statement that by being a JAG officer (an inaccurate assumption in retrospect), he would have the full force and prestige of the USA government behind him. And that he would be accorded special and preferential treatment by the host country he was assigned to and he would be shielded from the "other"side of the society of the host country.

I stated that, b/c I used to be associated with a very influential organization. Eventhough personally I was nobody, the influence that came with the position allowed me to have more power and influence than I would otherwise possess. People gave preferential treatment, not b/c they liked me or admired me, but b/c of the position I held. I could be beneficial to them or be a negative factor to their career and future.   

Along the same line, being a JAG officer has a lot of impact on what you may or may not encounter in Japan or any host country.

When I mentioned that his biggest challenge was at the local bar, it was just that, ie. fighting with booze!  If you all read more into it, that is your problem. Don't blame me.  lol  Whatever you people did in the "local bar caterring to GI" must be haunting on your conscience!  LMAO.  That must be why you all are making a mountain out of a mole hill from what I posted.


----------



## yilisifu

Insofar as the bookstore thing goes, I was referring to your earlier statement wherein you said that one could "go into any bookstore in a Chinese dominated city and find tons of martial arts books.."

   Last I knew, Shanghai and Beijing were pretty much dominated by the Chinese.........


   I never indicated that I knew what was going on in the rest of Asia simply because I was in China, Japan, and Okinawa...and I've no doubt that there are appreciable rates of violent crime in other Asian cities, just like we have in the U.S.  But your story sounds like something out of an Indiana Jones movie...but then, that's alright......


----------



## chufeng

I don't see how you could have avoided getting chopped to bits while you were

LYAO...

 
chufeng

In other words, yours is just one story...
Maybe you lived in a schitehole, ghetto...
Guess what? Bad things happen in ghettos here, too...


----------



## chufeng

JN,

Serious question...

If you want us to take you seriously, you have to give up a little bit of information...(sure, you could lie)...

Your profile is a blank slate...

The claims you make would make you at least in your mid 50s, maybe older...

If you're 30something...then you obviously are pulling our collective leg...

Can you post anything about yourself?
If not, everything you post is a fairytale...

:asian:
chufeng


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by yilisifu _
> Insofar as the bookstore thing goes, I was referring to your earlier statement wherein you said that one could "go into any bookstore in a Chinese dominated city and find tons of martial arts books.."
> 
> Last I knew, Shanghai and Beijing were pretty much dominated by the Chinese.........
> 
> 
> I never indicated that I knew what was going on in the rest of Asia simply because I was in China, Japan, and Okinawa...and I've no doubt that there are appreciable rates of violent crime in other Asian cities, just like we have in the U.S.  But your story sounds like something out of an Indiana Jones movie...but then, that's alright......



1. "Chinese dominated" would mean a city in a non-Chinese nation.  Beijing, Shanghai are simply Chinese cities.   That is only a simple miscommunication.

2. My story is nothing unique at all.  You can find millions of people in Asia who have lived through it or still living it.  Go to any plantation in  the Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Burma, even Malaysia.  As soon as you are off the main streets in the metro, it is a different world. 

Foreigners are shown the metros and all those neatly controlled area.  

3. When I was growing up, seaborne piracy was not an uncommon event. Sure the authority would send in the marine and they would just sail right to the suspected pirate hideout and blasted the whole freaking islands with whatever they have.

This kind of news never made it to the front page of major newspaper  that caters to foreign visitors. The local language newspaper would have no such restrain.

Piracy is still a major problem. But the marinetime crime is now targeting the shipping lane. This, b/c the victims are foreign ships, the foreigners talk. You can find info on piracy in Asian water, on the internet.

4.  If you think this is Indiana Jones, that would only lend support to most non-Americans' view that Americans don't know anything beyond their border.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> *I don't see how you could have avoided getting chopped to bits while you were
> 
> LYAO...
> 
> 
> chufeng
> 
> In other words, yours is just one story...
> Maybe you lived in a schitehole, ghetto...
> Guess what? Bad things happen in ghettos here, too... *



Most people who live there, take extreme precaution as far safety and security are concern.

Why do you think the rest of the world think Americans are "soft" eventhough we have the biggest and most advanced military?

Most people in other parts of the world (safe for the good for nothing Europeans and the Canadians  ), live a tougher and harder life than Americans.  While they envy the Americans' material wealth and scientific achievement, they have no respect for the Yankee toughness. On the contrary, they laugh at Americans' softness. Most of them think that Americans would never hack it if you have to live in their world.

Americans don't understand this psychology and do not understand why eventhough America spends billions of $ helping out the world and yet we get no respect.


To survive in a harsh environment, you have to sacrifice a lot of freedom and individual rights.  You have to compromise your ideals and sometimes even your moral code.  You have to "suck it up" so to speak.  You have to think" it is only bad if it happens to me".  

Just b/c I didn't get hacked, doesn't mean I didn't lost a lot of people close to me.  If you have seen death often enough, it stays with you. I can never shake the feeling when someone you love is about to pass into eternity.  Do you know what it likes to look into a pair of eyes and the feeling of " Oh NO!" overwhelm you?  It changes you.


----------



## Johnathan Napalm

> _Originally posted by chufeng _
> JN,
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> If you want us to take you seriously, you have to give up a little bit of information...(sure, you could lie)...
> 
> Your profile is a blank slate...
> 
> The claims you make would make you at least in your mid 50s, maybe older...
> 
> If you're 30something...then you obviously are pulling our collective leg...
> 
> Can you post anything about yourself?
> If not, everything you post is a fairytale...
> 
> :asian:
> chufeng



Exactly!  I could lie. But why bother?  Nothing you can say, good or bad, would have any impact on my life, what so ever.  I have no use for ego boosting.  I seek no approval.  

I am in my 30's.  Everything I have posted, is true.  The only thing missing are the specific timeline and locale.  If you were knowledgeable in Asian modern history, you could have easily ID the nation and approximate time line. I have given sufficient specific info. It is not hard to pinpoint at all.

If you want to take the whole thing as fairytale, fine with me. It wouldn't make any difference in my life whether you are enlightened or enriched by my posts here. lol  

I have a mission to fullfill. Until then, I just have to keep my mouth shut.

There are a lot of things going on that people simply are not awared of, and they pretend that they don't exist.  I can tell you more about things that are happening in your backyard that America is pretending it is not happening.  But this is a martial art forum, and I do not wish to usurp it.


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## Johnathan Napalm

Nothing I have posted is unique at all.  All you have to do is to go live on an agriculture plantation in one of those nations I posted earlier. Stay away from those run by the government or agencies. They would only show foreigners what they want to show you.  Go to those run by ordinary business people.


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## Johnathan Napalm

I want to make one point here. I do not wish to give the impression that I have been ridiculing the Yili folks here. 

To the contrary, I consider Yilisifu, Chufeng, and Yiliquan1 among the most valuable posters of the forum. They and RSK, Martial Artist, Mike Clark and Nightingale, are among the heavy weights I respect, and whose posts are highly recommended. 

If people post something that is inaccurate, I would point that out.  I may not do it with tact (understatement there for sure). But that does not mean disrespect.  (Disrespect is when I call you a crook. Wouldn't do that w/o solid reason.)


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## Matt Stone

So what was it we were talking about before this thread got hijacked by pirates from Malaysia?



Gambairmasu.
:asian:


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