# Hand To Hand Firearms



## stonewall1350 (Oct 4, 2010)

I was just wondering if y'all can point me in the direction of some styles or techniques for hand to hand defense if you are carrying a pistol. I of course mean just some basic moves on how to get to and reach your gun in a close quarter situation...cause you may not always be able to pull your gun, or the attacker could reach for your gun as well. I just think it is important to know these things for those of us who carry concealed.


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## jks9199 (Oct 4, 2010)

Gun retention is an important skill -- but it's not something I'm going to try to cover here too much.  Basically, the idea is going to be to prevent the bad guy from gaining control of your gun.  If it's in the holster -- common tactics are aimed at keeping it there.  If it's in your hand, you have to keep it close to you so that you have maximum control over it if it's grabbed.


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## stonewall1350 (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks. So basically there are no special tactics? Cause I know jiu jitsu and boxing. I would not want the guy close to me if I have my gun on me though.


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 7, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> I was just wondering if y'all can point me in the direction of some styles or techniques for hand to hand defense if you are carrying a pistol. I of course mean just some basic moves on how to get to and reach your gun in a close quarter situation...cause you may not always be able to pull your gun, or the attacker could reach for your gun as well. I just think it is important to know these things for those of us who carry concealed.


 
Check out Gabe Suarez and Marc Denny (Dog Brothers), specifically the DLO material, DLO 1, 2 and 3. It's about the interface of knife, gun and empty hand. 

http://dogbrothers.com/store/index.php?cPath=39&osCsid=2c7f63d3f98622d230b9f234ed6811ad

http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/

That should be a good primer for where to start and what to look for when trying to integrate weapons skills and empty hand skills.

In addition, there is a very excellent product that takes care of TWO critical issues with CCW's.........low-light and less-lethal options. It's called the 'Tigerlight T-100'. It combines a bright 100 lumen constant and strobing light with Sabre Red OC Spray in a rugged compact aircraft aluminum frame that is very portable and concealable. https://www.tigerlightt100.com/?cid=710448

I recommend them in my CCW classes because it also has a hand strap and the position of the light when held with the hand strap is such that it is perfectly held aligned with your gun when used in the classic 'Harries Technique' of low-light shooting allowing lighting of the target while having simultaneous instant access to OC Spray.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/blackbear11784/crossedwrist.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D12141%26start%3D0%26sid%3Dbe22dbb1acada698ea64ed647d411f5a&h=375&w=500&sz=23&tbnid=oDPJV7K7HM3GEM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dharries%2Btechnique&zoom=1&q=harries+technique&hl=en&usg=__J5HePToPuvuMJImQOwdGQ9QcyPk=&sa=X&ei=2UuuTN33HsjH4gb4zpTyBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ9QEwBA

I tell folks all the time, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail........and that can cause problems when the situation requires violence.......but not lethal violence.  Having less lethal options available is crucial to deal with a full spectrum of threats you might face, many of which may not require shooting if other options are utilized, such as a face full of OC.


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## stonewall1350 (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks I will save all this and give it a look. I have always felt that I wouldn't have a gun in my hand unless I plan on shooting, but now that I have gotten a little older and quite a bit wiser to the way the world around me works I have started looking at the options of shoot or don't shoot and what to do. Obviously I won't pull in a verbal confrontation or other easily managed situations...it's just those situations where you aren't quite sure what you are facing that have always worried me. And a less lethal option is always preferable.


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## KenpoTex (Oct 9, 2010)

There is an instructor known as "SouthNarc" who is on the cutting edge when it comes to integrating gun-fighting and empty-hand combat (preemptive striking, clinch-work, grappling, etc.).  He also offers the best presentation on "pre-fight" issues and managing the initial contact that I have ever heard.  He does a lot of classes in the SE US so you should definitely look into his stuff if you are serious about this topic.

His company website is www.shivworks.com

He is one of the owners of a forum where lot's of invaluable information and discussion can be found  www.totalprotectioninteractive.com

Here's the review I posted last year after taking one of his classes:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78839

And here's a few You Tube clips that will give you an idea of what his classes look like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7cbMxGMLs&feature=related






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeX1PyKKuYk&feature=related


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## Grenadier (Oct 13, 2010)

Have you contacted your local shooting clubs to see if they offer various classes?  You may be surprised at the sheer amount of offerings available at a reasonable price.   

If not, there are other schools that teach such material, that come recommended, although at a premium price.  

Mas Ayoob's LFI classes, as well as Thunder Ranch's, encompass a wide array of topics when it comes to defensive handgun use, concealed carry use, etc.  

These classes aren't cheap, but just about everyone who attends them swears that they learned a great deal, and consider the money well spent.


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## Hudson69 (Oct 15, 2010)

I would check into one of the LEO Defensive Tactics programs for gun control and retention FBI is decent but besides that area it is a little light unless you want to learn some control holds (no gun involved).  Beyond that you might want to check out any one of the high-speed shooting/training areas like Front sight, Thunder Ranch, Valhalla or Gunsite for training involving point blank shooting and other tactical scenarios a CCW holder might have use for; if you know any LEO's from an forward thinking agency find out what training they do (some agencies do a lot and others are lacking and size isn't really an issue most of the time.)


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 19, 2010)

I know SN well Ken!

Now there is also the old Lindel Method of handgun retention (I used to own the origional book AND DVD of this method till I loaned it to some cops and never got them back! Same thing happened to 'The Red Zone' but with different cops.

Here is some of the things you can do. Take a page from Krav Maga for training.

Use a 'red' or 'blue' non-firing gun that matches your carry gun. With partners have one hold a punching bag or mitt or Muy elbow pad and start laying into it. Then one of the partners grabs a 'red' knife or gun or club and brandishes it where you can see it out of the corner of your eye. Then you draw on the attacker while commanding them to drop their weapon. Sometimes they comply, sometimes not.

Make sure you use your real carry gear (without the real gun of course!)

Practice that with other skills like 360 scan, high blocks if they attack (or like in SN's class do a cover into the 'default' position.)

I have a Centry wave back in the garage and both 'red' and aluminum guns (yes some of those all aluminium guns used to make holsters as they feel like the real guns.) You can do alot of training that way and there is no way ANYONE can get shot!

Deaf


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## Kong Soo Do (May 19, 2011)

http://isitrainingcenter.com/

I received my second instructor certification from this center (FDLE was my first).  It was, bar none, the most brutal but realistic combat firearms course I've taken since putting on a uniform in 1985.

H2H while shooting was part of the training.


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## chinto (May 20, 2011)

some instructors in different arts do know and teach weapons retention.

the biggest thing is if the weapon is in your hand, you should be shooting it if you drew it!  If you were not out to shoot the attacker why did you draw it??!!  if you drew the weapon you should not be talking! time for that is long past! you drew, you point it and fire it! its not a magic wand.

 if its in the holster, then of course the name of the game is keep the bad guy from getting your weapon out or control of it in any way.


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## Kemposhot (May 20, 2011)

I would suggest looking into classes that a local shooting school may offer.  Very often you can find some interesting stuff.  Its great to see more people interested in this, as often times people feel that if they have a gun they don't need to worry about hand to hand.

Something I read in Black Belt Magazine recently that seemed pretty interesting was this:

http://www.martialartofthegun.com/

Hojutsu-Martial arts and firearms mixed.  Very interesting, its a shame that there aren't any schools for this in my area.  Anyone else hear of it?


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