# Some Baguazhang Standing post training



## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2010)

Baguazhang Zhuang Gong - Baguazhang Post Skills


Liu Style Baguazhang - The Eight Post Methods
http://www.smilingtiger.net/The Eight Post Methods.pdf


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## 72ronin (Jan 26, 2010)

Im sooo new to Bagua perhaps i shouldnt comment but, I would much rather walk the circle with the eight postures countless times then go on to the form.
You know, i put Tai Chi chuan in the "too hard basket" lol becouse i could not be still and move slowly. I need a fa-jing "Pahh" at the end of various movements lol, maybe its the Karate background  .
               Nevertheless, great post Xue Sheng.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2010)

some styles of bagua have standing some don't

And you will never get to proper use of fajing without training the forms slowly or fast/.slow of some style. There is a lot more to fajing than a hitting.

Xingyiquan is very dependant on standing practice as is yiquan and that has a lot to do with training someone how to use thier entire body as a unit. This is why a good xingyiquan person can hit like a truck.

To do any of the CMA IMA styles correctly you need to learn how to relax, move energy and strike at the same time (using the whole body).

Don't forget in CMA the body is a fist.


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## blindsage (Jan 26, 2010)

72ronin said:


> Im sooo new to Bagua perhaps i shouldnt comment but, I would much rather walk the circle with the eight postures countless times then go on to the form.
> You know, i put Tai Chi chuan in the "too hard basket" lol becouse i could not be still and move slowly. I need a fa-jing "Pahh" at the end of various movements lol, maybe its the Karate background  .
> Nevertheless, great post Xue Sheng.


If you're doing any of the IMA (especially if you're beginning) and are looking for "Pahh" at the end of various movements, you're probably doing them wrong (and you don't "need" it, you like it). Relaxation and learning to trust the natural power of the body structure and whole body movement are essential to the IMAs. If there is a lot of satisfying hitting at the outset, something is wrong. I have a Karate background as well and I have to let go of a lot of a lot of ideas about movement and power generation. Most of us do.

BTW, of all three IMA, Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua, I have often heard people say that Taiji takes the longest to become functional with, but that Bagua is the hardest to learn. Take it FWIW.


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## mograph (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm one of those guys who believes that Zhan Zhuang can enhance the performance of any martial artist. 

Zhan Zhuang may be absent from some schools because a) they never tried it, b) it's difficult and boring or c) it doesn't attract students, who (to be fair) are the life blood of a school.


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## 72ronin (Jan 26, 2010)

I was refering to "push mountain into the sea" from jiangs form. and ofcourse the whole body strikes not just the palm..
          My comments were lighthearted in intention anyway, more of a pun at my beginners status lol.
          Yes yes i will have to empty the cup so to speak. Easier said than done though 

cheers 
72ronin


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## blindsage (Jan 27, 2010)

mograph said:


> I'm one of those guys who believes that Zhan Zhuang can enhance the performance of any martial artist.
> 
> Zhan Zhuang may be absent from some schools because a) they never tried it, b) it's difficult and boring or c) it doesn't attract students, who (to be fair) are the life blood of a school.


 
My sifu teaches and practices Zhan Zhuang, but when I ask him about doing it myself and what role it should take in my personal practice, he tells me he actually prefers circle walking and recommends I spend more time doing that than ZZ.  But then he also refers to some of his peers that he trained with who really like ZZ (though they are mainly Taiji people).  FWIW.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2010)

blindsage said:


> My sifu teaches and practices Zhan Zhuang, but when I ask him about doing it myself and what role it should take in my personal practice, he tells me he actually prefers circle walking and recommends I spend more time doing that than ZZ. But then he also refers to some of his peers that he trained with who really like ZZ (though they are mainly Taiji people). FWIW.


 
Zhan Zhuang is very big in Yiquan (dachengquan) and you will also see it in Xingyiquan and the Chen taijiquan family seem to like it as well.

Bagua may or may not have any standing practice at all. I have talked to Bagua guys that do none and teh emphasis is on circle walking and I have talked with bagua guys that put a lot of emphasis on Standing postures.

I am however wondering if prior to the Bagua/Xingyi/Taiji alliance thing (if you will) that occurec in China, around the time of Li Cunyi, did bagua have any standing practices at all or did they have all that many?


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## mograph (Jan 27, 2010)

blindsage said:


> My sifu teaches and practices Zhan Zhuang, but when I ask him about doing it myself and what role it should take in my personal practice, he tells me he actually prefers circle walking and recommends I spend more time doing that than ZZ.  But then he also refers to some of his peers that he trained with who really like ZZ (though they are mainly Taiji people).  FWIW.



Interesting. If I had the time, I'd do both ZZ and circle walking, since I liked circle walking -- just never got that far with it. I felt sooo dyslexic doing Bagua, so I quit. For now, anyway. 

I suppose that if I did Bagua, I'd do more circle walking. But I do Yiquan ... there you go.


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## blindsage (Jan 27, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Bagua may or may not have any standing practice at all. I have talked to Bagua guys that do none and teh emphasis is on circle walking and I have talked with bagua guys that put a lot of emphasis on Standing postures.


My sifu teaches an entire Bagua ZZ set, but he doesn't emphasize it at all.



> I am however wondering if prior to the Bagua/Xingyi/Taiji alliance thing (if you will) that occurec in China, around the time of Li Cunyi, did bagua have any standing practices at all or did they have all that many?


My sifu seems to think the answer to this is no.  Regardless of whether it is a good practice or not, he just seems to think it doesn't line up with the best of what we know about Bagua history and development.


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## blindsage (Jan 27, 2010)

mograph said:


> Interesting. If I had the time, I'd do both ZZ and circle walking, since I liked circle walking -- just never got that far with it. I felt sooo dyslexic doing Bagua, so I quit. For now, anyway.
> 
> I suppose that if I did Bagua, I'd do more circle walking. But I do Yiquan ... there you go.


I love the feel of doing Bagua, Xingyi is a little more natural for me, but it doesn't have the same dynamic feel to me that Bagua does, though have to say I love both.  I'm working on Santi, and like it, but circle walking is just so much more dynamic to me.....right now, who knows down the road.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2010)

mograph said:


> Interesting. If I had the time, I'd do both ZZ and circle walking, since I liked circle walking -- just never got that far with it. I felt sooo dyslexic doing Bagua, so I quit. For now, anyway.
> 
> I suppose that if I did Bagua, I'd do more circle walking. But I do Yiquan ... there you go.


 
I like circle walking when I did Bagua but the Sifu I had did not have that much depth to his training and I was so much more interested in Xingyiquan at the time so I did not go far with Bagua. However I have been in contact with a Yin style group near me within the last year and I did think about returning... but I still have my Yang style and then there is still that damn xingyi addiction :EG:



blindsage said:


> My sifu teaches an entire Bagua ZZ set, but he doesn't emphasize it at all.
> 
> 
> My sifu seems to think the answer to this is no. Regardless of whether it is a good practice or not, he just seems to think it doesn't line up with the best of what we know about Bagua history and development.


 
I have seen a few standing postures discussed in a few old books I have read form Xingyi/Bagua guys of old china that do not seem to line up with Xingyiquan ad I felt that they may have come from Bagua. But I did discover that at least a few of them came from either Xinyi or Shanxi style Xingyi so that brought me back to wondering if Bagua originally had them. I have read a couple of books by Hebei stylists of Xingyiquan and there do not seem to be as many standing postures as listed in the attached bagua stuff. 

I will have to look more at Yin Yang Bagua and see if they have them since they are claiming the same teacher as Tung Haichuan and see if they have any. Of course whether they do or not odes not really prove anything other than they may or may not use them. I wonder if they are found in Yin style, that would be more along the lines of what Tung Haichuan may have taught I guess. 

Taiji can but it tends not to be emphasizes like Xingyiquan and they generally are the postures of the taiji form, Wuji or Zhan Zhuang not some other standing posture like bear, tiger, dragon or santi. But then I am basing this on the Chen I have done and my flavor of Yang style so who knows


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