# a weak woman



## Lisa lyons

can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman? i have trained  in a gym but i am sadly very weak. I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio. I want to still try training in martial arts.


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## Flying Crane

What are your goals for martial arts training?  What do you hope to accomplish, or what are your reasons for training?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

On top of flying crane's questions-What's around you that you can reasonably attend (price-wise, distance-wise, and schedule/time-wise)? It might be pointless to offer, say, silat, if there is no silat around you. 

Also, when you say weak are you referring specifically to the cardio, or do you mean muscular weak as well? If muscle as well-do you have a medical issue there, or do you just consider yourself weak? That's one of those vague terms that can mean anything from having mild cerebral palsy, to not being able to develop the muscle to being a world-class bodybuilder, to anything in-between. And if you don't mind sharing-how severe is your lung disease/have you talked to your doctor about if you can attend cardio-intensive exercise?


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## Flying Crane

Another thing:  get clearance from your doctor for this.  If you have lung disease and are otherwise health-compromised, physical activity might be dangerous for you.


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## jobo

Flying Crane said:


> Another thing:  get clearance from your doctor for this.  If you have lung disease and are otherwise health-compromised, physical activity might be dangerous for you.


i suspect lack of physical activery is more  dangerous


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## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman? i have trained  in a gym but i am sadly very weak. I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio. I want to still try training in martial arts.



Please answer the questions below and many here will be better able to assist you.  And that does bring up something else.  Some martial arts don't do much cardio, some because it  isn't part of their art, others because they just don't want to drive customers away (of course COVID-19 had changed some in-dojo participation).

Let us hear more from you.


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## Lisa lyons

Flying Crane said:


> Another thing:  get clearance from your doctor for this.  If you have lung disease and are otherwise health-compromised, physical activity might be dangerous for you.


i was given the all clear to start training. i now use a stationery bike at home only 10 mins but it´s a start. would say karate katas help me get stronger? i will leave out all the hard fighting stuff ! judo would be too hard i think.


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> i was given the all clear to start training. i now use a stationery bike at home only 10 mins but it´s a start. would say karate katas help me get stronger? i will leave out all the hard fighting stuff ! judo would be too hard i think.


yes very likely they would, the activerty generaly  would help greatly, you could also consider doing a light strengh buildibg program at home, such as push up on a table or a kitchen work top

as a therapeutic exercise for recovering from ill health, walking takes some beating


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## _Simon_

Lisa lyons said:


> can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman? i have trained  in a gym but i am sadly very weak. I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio. I want to still try training in martial arts.



Hey Lisa, welcome to the forum 

That's awesome to hear, and I think martial arts will be a massive benefit to you.

Definitely have a think about what the others have asked you in this thread, specifically why you want to do martial arts.

Then have a look at what's close to you and ask if you can check out a class to watch. It's a great idea to chat with the instructor and explain anything you feel might be a concern regarding your training. Alot of instructors are very accommodating to people who have specific limitations, and will respect that you need to work at your own pace and capacity, and will help you push yourself slowly to get better.

If you're after something not too fight-heavy maybe something not like muay thai or boxing, eg there are karate schools that are less focused on fighting and more on fitness, strength, etiquette etc, and may be what you're looking for.

But have a look around and find what suits, see what lights the spark in you after watching a class!

Let us know how you go, and ask any more questions here too


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## Lisa lyons

jobo said:


> yes very likely they would, the activerty generaly  would help greatly, you could also consider doing a light strengh buildibg program at home, such as push up on a table or a kitchen work top
> 
> as a therapeutic exercise for recovering from ill health, walking takes some beating


thank you i will try walking




_Simon_ said:


> Hey Lisa, welcome to the forum
> 
> That's awesome to hear, and I think martial arts will be a massive benefit to you.
> 
> Definitely have a think about what the others have asked you in this thread, specifically why you want to do martial arts.
> 
> Then have a look at what's close to you and ask if you can check out a class to watch. It's a great idea to chat with the instructor and explain anything you feel might be a concern regarding your training. Alot of instructors are very accommodating to people who have specific limitations, and will respect that you need to work at your own pace and capacity, and will help you push yourself slowly to get better.
> 
> If you're after something not too fight-heavy maybe something not like muay thai or boxing, eg there are karate schools that are less focused on fighting and more on fitness, strength, etiquette etc, and may be what you're looking for.
> 
> But have a look around and find what suits, see what lights the spark in you after watching a class!
> 
> Let us know how you go, and ask any more questions here too


Thank you, you are all very kind.


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

jobo said:


> i suspect lack of physical activery is more  dangerous



As someone with 10,000 posts in only 3 years, you’re a obviously an expert in this area.


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## Flying Crane

Lisa lyons said:


> i was given the all clear to start training. i now use a stationery bike at home only 10 mins but it´s a start. would say karate katas help me get stronger? i will leave out all the hard fighting stuff ! judo would be too hard i think.


Ok, decide if you are really interested in martial arts, or just seeking an exercise activity.  If the latter, then there are quicker, less expensive methods that are also likely more accessible during Covid.  Things like walking, biking/stationary bike, getting a small set of weights and some guidance and doing strength training exercises at home.  

Martial arts can be excellent methods of exercise, but it can be expensive over time, as you pay instructors fees, and it takes time to build up to, at least to where you can be effective on your own, when not in a class.  With Covid, in-class may not be possible for a while.  

But yes, practice of kata can be a good method of exercise.  Look around at what is available in your area, and let us know.  We might be able to give you some things to consider.  I would avoid schools that expect you to compete.  Look at what is close enough that you can make it to class, eliminate those that you cannot afford, and eliminate those that don’t have a class schedule that works for you.  What is left, are worth considering.  And again, Covid may have all of this screwed up for a while.

In the meantime, continue with things like the exercise bike, and walking.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

There's still some questions that you haven't answered-which is perfectly fine. You don't have to, but it will impact the advice we can give. I would second what flying crane is suggesting though-it sounds like your main motivation is strength training/getting healthier. If that's right, see if you can join a local ymca class or similar, that teaches karate or tai chi. And wherever you go, make clear your goals and ask if there are solo drills/mini-kata you can learn early to practice outside of class, as that's where you'll get most of the exercise.


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## JowGaWolf

Lisa lyons said:


> can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman?


Any system will work for someone who is thin.



Lisa lyons said:


> i have trained in a gym but i am sadly very weak.


Any system that does a lot of conditioning exercises will work.  If they do cardio, strength building exercises everyday then you'll get more than enough.  Tai Chi builds strengths but it's mostly lower body and core.



Lisa lyons said:


> I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio.


Most schools are flexible with things like this.  They only want students to try to do their best, where they are so they can grow from there.  I've yet to train at a place where they didn't take anyone who was unfit, uninjured, or had some kind of health challenge.  They understand people aren't going to go to war and fight with the skills that they have.

If you are "weak" now then you'll only get stronger regardless of what you do.  I've never see anyone get weaker from doing exercises.


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## Gerry Seymour

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> As someone with 10,000 posts in only 3 years, you’re a obviously an expert in this area.


By your posts on this matter, I assume inline posting Is your primary martial art, and you’ve dedicated much effort to posting.


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

gpseymour said:


> By your posts on this matter, I assume inline posting Is your primary martial art, and you’ve dedicated much effort to posting.



LOL wut??

Wtf are you even talking about?

I’ve posted on this entire forum 10 times in 8 years.. how is posting 10 comments over an 8 year period equivalent to dedicating “much effort” in your delusional world view?

You need to take a break from creating your own “aikido” and enrol in a tutorial for basic math.

What kind of “professional development coach” are you, an online “moderator” coming into a thread just to belittle other posters ..

This must be how aikido “teachers” make themselves feel better these days ..


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## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> As someone with 10,000 posts in only 3 years, you’re a obviously an expert in this area.


wow 10, 000  posts he must live online. Maybe he lives alone & internet is his only contact to people. I do not use any social media myself like facebook or twitter. it´s all too much these days !


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

Lisa, I apologize for the other posters in this thread (including a forum moderator!) for almost derailing your question, but my suggestion would be to find a good jiujitsu, hapkido or krav maga school in your area, and simply ask to be left out of the more intense cardio/conditioning drills.. maybe go out and do some stretching or partner/technique training during that time.

Ask to focus on women’s self defense and let them know about your condition and aerobic limits.

Another suggestion would be to seek out a more senior instructor for one on one personal training - it’s more expensive but it may be more productive.

If you have any questions on styles or specific schools just come back here and ask for our opinions ..

Good luck and let us know how your search goes!


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## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Lisa, I apologize for the other posters in this thread (including a forum moderator!) for almost derailing your question, but my suggestion would be to find a good jiujitsu, hapkido or krav maga school in your area, and simply ask to be left out of the more intense cardio/conditioning drills.. maybe go out and do some stretching or partner/technique training during that time.
> 
> Ask to focus on women’s self defense and let them know about your condition and aerobic limits.
> 
> Another suggestion would be to seek out a more senior instructor for one on one personal training - it’s more expensive but it may be more productive.
> 
> If you have any questions on styles or specific schools just come back here and ask for our opinions ..
> 
> Good luck and let us know how your search goes!


i know there is Krav maga & wing chun near me so i will have a look at that. I think the Krav maga is more self defence orientated. i know a guy who is a black belt in karate not sure what school or style but he´s a bit creepy was always trying to get too close if you know what i mean. he has bad breath too & has a beer gut !  i think there is a female teacher in the krav maga group might be better!


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## Gerry Seymour

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> LOL wut??
> 
> Wtf are you even talking about?
> 
> I’ve posted on this entire forum 10 times in 8 years.. how is posting 10 comments over an 8 year period equivalent to dedicating “much effort” in your delusional world view?
> 
> You need to take a break from creating your own “aikido” and enrol in a tutorial for basic math.
> 
> What kind of “professional development coach” are you, an online “moderator” coming into a thread just to belittle other posters ..
> 
> This must be how aikido “teachers” make themselves feel better these days ..


You're funny.


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

gpseymour said:


> You're funny.



not as funny as your “aikido” school


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## nikthegreek_3

For sure don;t trust any kind of self defense system. Watch the evidence:


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## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> not as funny as your “aikido” school


is Aikido good for fitness?


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

Lisa lyons said:


> is Aikido good for fitness?



If I were you, I’d just try out the Krav Maga school, it’s a system known for having specific women’s self defense training.


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## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> If I were you, I’d just try out the Krav Maga school, it’s a system known for having specific women’s self defense training.


this looks great !


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> this looks great !


it also looks like sexual assault


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Lisa lyons said:


> this looks great !


What jobo said. Responding to someone pushing/poking on your shoulder by grabbing their nuts is probably going to be getting you in more legal trouble than that threat is worth.


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## Tez3

Lisa lyons said:


> this looks great !



I'd say no, actually unlikely to work. If a man is intent on attacking someone he positions himself instinctively to protect his genitals. 
So much self defence taught to women is given from a man's perspective and doesn't take into account how women are likely to react. The basis should be distraction then escaping away as far as you can. Few women can fight like Wonder Woman so techniques taught should be appropriate for women not men.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tez3 said:


> I'd say no, actually unlikely to work. If a man is intent on attacking someone he positions himself instinctively to protect his genitals.
> So much self defence taught to women is given from a man's perspective and doesn't take into account how women are likely to react. The basis should be distraction then escaping away as far as you can. Few women can fight like Wonder Woman so techniques taught should be appropriate for women not men.


Keep in mind that techniques not intended to use on someone attacking someone. It's meant to be used on someone trying to intimidate/poke a woman. If he were attacking then yeah he'd be protecting his genitals, and you should focus on getting away. But in this "self-defense" situation, he won't be expecting it since he's not actually attacking the woman.


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## Lisa lyons

jobo said:


> it also looks like sexual assault


why? if you were a woman you might not think this. sound creepy. 
Most men i know would say good on you!


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> why? if you were a woman you might not think this. sound creepy.
> Most men i know would say good on you!


why, because grabibg someones privates is normally consider as sexual assualt, 

then it really depends on context, if your under attack all fair, if your havibg a heated debate over a parking spot, it may not be that easy to justify any more than if the person did it to you.

that said, its unlikely to have the effect demonstrated, a lot if self defence demonstrations  have an eliment of fantasy in them


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## Lisa lyons

jobo said:


> why, because grabibg someones privates is normally consider as sexual assualt,
> 
> then it really depends on context, if your under attack all fair, if your havibg a heated debate over a parking spot, it may not be that easy to justify any more than if the person did it to you.
> 
> that said, its unlikely to have the effect demonstrated, a lot if self defence demonstrations  have an eliment of fantasy in them


If a man was so aggressive to me i would hit first and ask questions later. you seem to think too much but maybe because you are a man..or maybe not. I do not understand any man who talks like you. most men i know protect a woman. you are very alarming!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Lisa lyons said:


> If a man was so aggressive to me i would hit first and ask questions later. you seem to think too much but maybe because you are a man..or maybe not. I do not understand any man who talks like you. most men i know protect a woman. you are very alarming!


This is a good way to wind up in jail.


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## Lisa lyons

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> This is a good way to wind up in jail.


maybe but a real man would not treat a woman like in the video. or don´t you agree?


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> If a man was so aggressive to me i would hit first and ask questions later. you seem to think too much but maybe because you are a man..or maybe not. I do not understand any man who talks like you. most men i know protect a woman. you are very alarming!


i am protecting you, from assualt charges, but it almost certainly  wont work out how its shown, so im protecting you from false advertising as well


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Lisa lyons said:


> maybe but a real man would not treat a woman like in the video. or don´t you agree?


I agree but that's irrelevent. Grabbing someone by their privates, throwing them on the ground through that grab, and then stopping the ground is a very  disproportionate response, man or woman, to being poked hard on the shoulder.


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## Lisa lyons

jobo said:


> i am protecting you, from assualt charges, but it almost certainly  wont work out how its shown, so im protecting you from false advertising as well


well anyway i doubt a guy like you with 10,000 posts on an internet forum is in the same league as the woman in the video. 
Girl power !


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## Lisa lyons

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I agree but that's irrelevent. Grabbing someone by their privates, throwing them on the ground through that grab, and then stopping the ground is a very  disproportionate response, man or woman, to being poked hard on the shoulder.


are you afraid a woman is better than you? hang ups? self defence is just that no rules on the streets. I know a woman who was raped. you do not understand. what kind of mod are you?


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> well anyway i doubt a guy like you with 10,000 posts on an internet forum is in the same league as the woman in the video.
> Girl power !


you do know the guy in the vid is throwing himself on the floor to make her look good.?

but anyway most of my 10,000 posts have beem trying to help people, as your not wanting my help,  il leave you to it

you may want to look a tezs post above, tez, i have it on good aurthority is femail


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## Lisa lyons

[QUOTE="jobo, post: 2027690, member: 36477"*]you do know the guy in the vid is throwing himself on the floor to make her look good.?*

but anyway most of my 10,000 posts have beem trying to help people, as your not wanting my help,  il leave you to it

you may want to look a tezs post above, tez, i have it on good aurthority is femail[/QUOTE]
so you punch people full power in your dojo? all videos are demonstrations so your comment i find irrelevant. I can only assume you would never train under a female sensei as your ego is rather large!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Lisa lyons said:


> are you afraid a woman is better than you? hang ups? self defence is just that no rules on the streets. I know a woman who was raped. you do not understand. what kind of mod are you?


I know a bunch of women who are better than me. And someone poking you is a far cry from self defense/rape.

If the guy was looking to rape you, as @Tez3 said, he'd be protecting his privates on the initial grab and this wouldn't work at all. It would only work on the non-malicious individual.


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## Lisa lyons

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> If the guy was looking to rape you, as @Tez3 said, he'd be protecting his privates on the initial grab and this wouldn't work at all. It would only work on the non-malicious individual.


how can you know this? you are assuming this but can´t say 100%. no situation is planned or the same. My friend said her situation started with fairly innocent comments then escalated very quickly. Men do not like rejection.


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## jobo

Lisa lyons said:


> [QUOTE="jobo, post: 2027690, member: 36477"*]you do know the guy in the vid is throwing himself on the floor to make her look good.?*
> 
> but anyway most of my 10,000 posts have beem trying to help people, as your not wanting my help,  il leave you to it
> 
> you may want to look a tezs post above, tez, i have it on good aurthority is femail


so you punch people full power in your dojo? all videos are demonstrations so your comment i find irrelevant. I can only assume you would never train under a female sensei as your ego is rather large![/QUOTE]
yea ok, best of luck with your martial art journey


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## Flying Crane

Ok, first, holy ****.

Second, the law regarding the issue of “reasonable force” in response to an aggression, either perceived or immanent or underway, varies a lot from place to place depending on local and regional law (at least in the US) and actual circumstances, and can be a complicated issue.  I think this is a serious drift from the topic of this thread and is a whole line of discussion in its own right.  I am not a legal expert, but I believe that typically there is at least some room legally, for a decisive response to the threat of attack, even if the attack is not yet underway.  Just where those lines are drawn, I won’t try to guess at in this discussion. 

So @Lisa lyons, do you have some particular schools in your area in mind, that you would like to discuss?


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## Lisa lyons

Flying Crane said:


> Ok, first, holy ****.
> 
> Second, the law regarding the issue of “reasonable force” in response to an aggression, either perceived or immanent or underway, varies a lot from place to place depending on local and regional law (at least in the US) and actual circumstances, and can be a complicated issue.  I think this is a serious drift from the topic of this thread and is a whole line of discussion in its own right.  I am not a legal expert, but I believe that typically there is at least some room legally, for a decisive response to the threat of attack, even if the attack is not yet underway.  Just where those lines are drawn, I won’t try to guess at in this discussion.
> 
> So @Lisa lyons, do you have some particular schools in your area in mind, that you would like to discuss?


yes let´s please get back on topic & please no more rambo comments.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Flying Crane said:


> Ok, first, holy ****.
> 
> Second, the law regarding the issue of “reasonable force” in response to an aggression, either perceived or immanent or underway, varies a lot from place to place depending on local and regional law (at least in the US) and actual circumstances, and can be a complicated issue.  I think this is a serious drift from the topic of this thread and is a whole line of discussion in its own right.  I am not a legal expert, but I believe that typically there is at least some room legally, for a decisive response to the threat of attack, even if the attack is not yet underway.  Just where those lines are drawn, I won’t try to guess at in this discussion.
> 
> So @Lisa lyons, do you have some particular schools in your area in mind, that you would like to discuss?


As you probably know, I almost never make statements about legality. The only reason here, is that the video is of person A poking person B, and person B responding by sexually assaulting person A multiple times. I can not think of any state, and very few circumstances, where that would be legal.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Lisa lyons said:


> how can you know this? you are assuming this but can´t say 100%. no situation is planned or the same. My friend said her situation started with fairly innocent comments then escalated very quickly. Men do not like rejection.


I actually went through and wrote a response going over exactly what was wrong with that video, and each way it could be improved, along with a better option for dealing with sudden escalation that didn't send for some reason. Based on your responses so far, along with the lack of clarification asked a couple of times in order to actually give you a recommendation, I'm guessing it's not worth spending more time on this thread. Just wanted to hope you find what you are looking for, whatever that may be, and hopefully you do not have occasion to try something like what is in the video and end up the worse for it.


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## Flying Crane

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> As you probably know, I almost never make statements about legality. The only reason here, is that the video is of person A poking person B, and person B responding by sexually assaulting person A multiple times. I can not think of any state, and very few circumstances, where that would be legal.


Which was always a point of contention in the various Kenpo curriculums, the overkill response to what seems like a moderate attack.

However, self-defense often involves some kind of build-up before the actual assault.  In the hypothetical from the video, there could be a history of stalking and threats and domestic violence and even violation of a restraining order.  In that case, a finger on the shoulder _might_ justifiably earn a severely violent response.  

So, it’s complicated and it depends.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Flying Crane said:


> Which was always a point of contention in the various Kenpo curriculums, the overkill response to what seems like a moderate attack.
> 
> However, self-defense often involves some kind of build-up before the actual assault.  In the hypothetical from the video, there could be a history of stalking and threats and domestic violence and even violation of a restraining order.  In that case, a finger on the shoulder _might_ justifiably earn a severely violent response.
> 
> So, it’s complicated and it depends.


I agree on the kenpo curriculums having overkill.
At that point that your mentioning though, proper self-defense would be going over how to avoid that situation, and not be that close to the person to begin with. You've already messed up multiple layers of self-defense allowing that person to poke you, and there are better options rather than the reaction in the video for personal safety, in 99.99% of cases.


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## Flying Crane

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I agree on the kenpo curriculums having overkill.
> At that point that your mentioning though, proper self-defense would be going over how to avoid that situation, and not be that close to the person to begin with. You've already messed up multiple layers of self-defense allowing that person to poke you, and there are better options rather than the reaction in the video for personal safety, in 99.99% of cases.


Likely true.  But life has a way of throwing curveballs at us.  The fellow could be playing psychological games with an ex-lover after a bitter breakup, doing his best to catch her off guard and keeping her afraid and anxious and freaked out.  He might take an opportunity to suddenly appear out of nowhere in the parking lot of the grocery store.  If life was perfect, she would have avoided the situation.   But life isn’t perfect and we often cannot anticipate the actions of others who bear us malice.  And she needed groceries.  And he was in the area and saw her there and saw an opportunity to further his psychological game.

Life is often out of our control.  So I’m not trying to justify an overkill response to a mild situation.  All I’m saying is, what is reasonable is often dictated by very specific circumstances, coupled with State and local laws.  And often we cannot predict in advance where the hammer will fall.   I can easily imagine a situation where a severe response to a “mild” provocation MIGHT be justifiable, depending on the backstory.  And I can easily imagine a whole lot of scenarios where such a response is definitely NOT reasonable.

And even if ultimately deemed reasonable, that determination might take place in front of a judge, in defense of prosecution.  That’s is stress-inducing and expensive and time-consuming and can really turn your life upside down for a while.  And could very well be part of the fellow’s psychological game.

People can be real bastards.


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## Lisa lyons

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm guessing it's not worth spending more time on this thread.


well i am sorry you feel that way but that is your prerogative. Just because you are a mod does not mean you are correct.


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## Lisa lyons

Flying Crane said:


> Likely true.  But life has a way of throwing curveballs at us.  The fellow could be playing psychological games with an ex-lover after a bitter breakup, doing his best to catch her off guard and keeping her afraid and anxious and freaked out.  He might take an opportunity to suddenly appear out of nowhere in the parking lot of the grocery store.  If life was perfect, she would have avoided the situation.   But life isn’t perfect and we often cannot anticipate the actions of others who bear us malice.  And she needed groceries.  And he was in the area and saw her there and saw an opportunity to further his psychological game.
> 
> Life is often out of our control.  So I’m not trying to justify an overkill response to a mild situation.  All I’m saying is, what is reasonable is often dictated by very specific circumstances, coupled with State and local laws.  And often we cannot predict in advance where the hammer will fall.   I can easily imagine a situation where a severe response to a “mild” provocation MIGHT be justifiable, depending on the backstory.  And I can easily imagine a whole lot of scenarios where such a response is definitely NOT reasonable.
> 
> And even if ultimately deemed reasonable, that determination might take place in front of a judge, in defense of prosecution.  That’s is stress-inducing and expensive and time-consuming and can really turn your life upside down for a while.  And could very well be part of the fellow’s psychological game.
> 
> People can be real bastards.


situations can change at any moment and very quickly. as a a member of the "weaker sex" i think i would rather defend myself first then worry later. a poke in the chest can very quickly lead to a punch or a head lock or being thrown to the floor then you are in trouble. then the judge is not there to help you in that moment. your reply was i think the best so far as i think you understand where i am coming from. Arm chair warriors can´t


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

Lisa lyons said:


> situations can change at any moment and very quickly. as a a member of the "weaker sex" i think i would rather defend myself first then worry later. a poke in the chest can very quickly lead to a punch or a head lock or being thrown to the floor then you are in trouble. then the judge is not there to help you in that moment. your reply was i think the best so far as i think you understand where i am coming from. Arm chair warriors can´t



Lisa, don’t let the other “experts” in this thread cloud you with their negativity and “legal analysis.”

There’s always risk with the law when you put your hands on someone, but your focus now should be on finding a good school to learn useful techniques, get exercise, and develop a good mindset of aggressive self protection.

I’m not quite sure why all these posters are complaining about a self defence measure that is practiced in virtually all women’s self defense programs anywhere in the world (going for the nuts) but such is the wonderful world of martial talk, where everyone is an expert.

Pretty much any technique you learn in martial arts/self defense (other than running away) involves physically touching your aggressor and thus lays open the potential for criminal charges.  But this is no reason to not learn how to defend yourself ..

Did you make any contact with the schools in your ara you’re interested in? If you have questions about specific schools the more helpful posters here would love to help you pick one.  

Don’t forget to have a list of questions..


----------



## jobo

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Lisa, don’t let the other “experts” in this thread cloud you with their negativity and “legal analysis.”
> 
> There’s always risk with the law when you put your hands on someone, but your focus now should be on finding a good school to learn useful techniques, get exercise, and develop a good mindset of aggressive self protection.
> 
> I’m not quite sure why all these posters are complaining about a self defence measure that is practiced in virtually all women’s self defense programs anywhere in the world (going for the nuts) but such is the wonderful world of martial talk, where everyone is an expert.
> 
> Pretty much any technique you learn in martial arts/self defense (other than running away) involves physically touching your aggressor and thus lays open the potential for criminal charges.  But this is no reason to not learn how to defend yourself ..
> 
> Did you make any contact with the schools in your ara you’re interested in? If you have questions about specific schools the more helpful posters here would love to help you pick one.
> 
> Don’t forget to have a list of questions..


pre emtive striking is a really good way of turning an argument into a fight, apart from the somewhat cloudy legality of that, it matters greatly, if your strike is complely ineffective, as the next stage is all most certainly they will hit you back.

groin strikes, by that i mean the lower abdomen,  can be deverstating, grabbing the dangly bits a lot less so, even more in tight pants, if they as seems likely only finds it mildly irritating,  you are perfectly in range to be head butted amongst many other possible retaliations, which would most probably  be found by a court to be reasonable self defence on their part

there does seem a high dependancy in womens self defebce on going for the nuts as you put it, one can only conclude that the people putting this forward  have never been grabved by the nuts or they would know it was a bit scretchy


----------



## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Lisa, don’t let the other “experts” in this thread cloud you with their negativity and “legal analysis.”
> 
> There’s always risk with the law when you put your hands on someone, but your focus now should be on finding a good school to learn useful techniques, get exercise, and develop a good mindset of aggressive self protection.
> 
> I’m not quite sure why all these posters are complaining about a self defence measure that is practiced in virtually all women’s self defense programs anywhere in the world (going for the nuts) but such is the wonderful world of martial talk, where everyone is an expert.
> 
> Pretty much any technique you learn in martial arts/self defense (other than running away) involves physically touching your aggressor and thus lays open the potential for criminal charges.  But this is no reason to not learn how to defend yourself ..
> 
> Did you make any contact with the schools in your ara you’re interested in? If you have questions about specific schools the more helpful posters here would love to help you pick one.
> 
> Don’t forget to have a list of questions..


I am not too worried about the fairly negative comments. I have been out drinking with friends and i saw one time a woman glass another woman. her ear was hanging off !  it can happen so quick. I have found a guy through a friend who is training jeet kune do but just a selected few people. i will go and look at it. everything else is closed at the moment.


----------



## Tai Mantis Warrior

jobo said:


> pre emtive striking is a really good way of turning an argument into a fight, apart from the somewhat cloudy legality of that, it matters greatly, if your strike is complely ineffective, as the next stage is all most certainly they will hit you back.
> 
> groin strikes, by that i mean the lower abdomen,  can be deverstating, grabbing the dangly bits a lot less so, even more in tight pants, if they as seems likely only finds it mildly irritating,  you are perfectly in range to be head butted amongst many other possible retaliations, which would most probably  be found by a court to be reasonable self defence on their part
> 
> there does seem a high dependancy in womens self defebce on going for the nuts as you put it, one can only conclude that the people putting this forward  have never been grabved by the nuts or they would know it was a bit scretchy



Preemptive striking is the very basis for effective self defence.  If a woman waits for an aggressor to strike first the fight has most likely already been lost.

Grabbing nuts is not the most effective self defence move, but it has worked and that’s why it’s taught so much in pretty much EVERY women’s self defence program.

But you must know more about women’s self defense than ALL the other reputable self defence instructors around the told who teach such techniques.

By the way: this thread is meant to help the OP find a good martial arts school, not for non-lawyers to discuss the legality of the martial arts technique taught.

Virtually every martial arts technique discussed in this forum is potentially illegal - depending on the personal whim of the sitting judge.

So a bunch of non-lawyers coming to this thread to write “you can’t do that, it’s potentially illegal!” is the ultimate in stating the obvious.



Lisa lyons said:


> I am not too worried about the fairly negative comments. I have been out drinking with friends and i saw one time a woman glass another woman. her ear was hanging off !  it can happen so quick. I have found a guy through a friend who is training jeet kune do but just a selected few people. i will go and look at it. everything else is closed at the moment.



Definitely try the JKD school, depending on the instructor it may be even better than the KM.


----------



## jobo

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Preemptive striking is the very basis for effective self defence.  If a woman waits for an aggressor to strike first the fight has most likely already been lost.
> 
> Grabbing nuts is not the most effective self defence move, but it has worked and that’s why it’s taught so much in pretty much EVERY women’s self defence program.


a pre emtive strike has to be effective other wise it isnt prempting anything its just turning up the level of violance in the encounter and they will probably hit back.

they may or may not have hit you anyway, if someone is just finger jabbing you, they most probably wont if you retreat, if they intended to hit you they would have done so already, im not big on retreating but im not a " weak woman" but if i was signiificantly out gunned, id give it a try before really antagnising the guy

as a said, a well delivered  punch to the lower abdomen will stop most people,  a stike or a grab of the dangly bits, is not anywhere near as a effective  as some people would have you belive,

that women self defence tends to towards it is realy an indictment of the courses, rather than evidence its effective


----------



## Deleted member 39746

There is not cloudy legality in pre emptive striking if its not addresed in law, if the criteria of threat are met you may act before the threat does.   (obstructing your path is a physical threat and they have initated a fight with you, plenty of people forget that and stuff of that nature are fights)  If its a clear you cant do it, then you cant, if its a clear you can do it with these crtieria then you follow these criteria, but i dont think many places address it at all beyond common law.  So it just falls under the same assesment criteria as using force to defend yourself, you can just act before the threat does. (as you should be able to as the first action usually wins, its one of those myths its unalwful when its really not in places)        There is a reason why every good self defence cirrculem includes the fence and hitting the person before they hit you.   Well, looking for and indentifying the threat, then taking follow up action. 


And for the direct above, a flincing response is usually sufficent to break contact and a secondary point to self defence is buying as much time as possible and fighting back increases your odds of surviving a lot more than not.   You make yourself not look like a victim so they will go to a easier target, and if they spend 30 mintues grappling with you in a public area there is a chance someone will along or someone will hear the scuffle.    

Just not installing a nature of passivity/submission and defeatism could be argued as a decent self defence "training" as you would desuade anyone looking for a easy target once they have to fight you for 30 minutes. 

If you cant go anywhere i would just echo what i read in dead or alive (paraphrase) "Just learn how to do one technique at a time starting with your strong hand, even if you can only straight punch well with your strong hand, it beats not being able to do anything and gives you a technique to use." (actually Geoff Thompsons Dead or Alive is a pretty good book if you are intrested in self defence)

I think thats a apt paraphrase i cant remember the wording for the life of me and cant fish the book out currently.    I dont think punching is the hardest thing to learn by yourself if you get some good information on how to do it, the main issue is the latter.


----------



## jobo

Rat said:


> There is not cloudy legality in pre emptive striking if its not addresed in law, if the criteria of threat are met you may act before the threat does.   (obstructing your path is a physical threat and they have initated a fight with you, plenty of people forget that and stuff of that nature are fights)  If its a clear you cant do it, then you cant, if its a clear you can do it with these crtieria then you follow these criteria, but i dont think many places address it at all beyond common law.  So it just falls under the same assesment criteria as using force to defend yourself, you can just act before the threat does. (as you should be able to as the first action usually wins, its one of those myths its unalwful when its really not in places)        There is a reason why every good self defence cirrculem includes the fence and hitting the person before they hit you.   Well, looking for and indentifying the threat, then taking follow up action.
> 
> 
> And for the direct above, a flincing response is usually sufficent to break contact and a secondary point to self defence is buying as much time as possible and fighting back increases your odds of surviving a lot more than not.   You make yourself not look like a victim so they will go to a easier target, and if they spend 30 mintues grappling with you in a public area there is a chance someone will along or someone will hear the scuffle.
> 
> Just not installing a nature of passivity/submission and defeatism could be argued as a decent self defence "training" as you would desuade anyone looking for a easy target once they have to fight you for 30 minutes.
> 
> If you cant go anywhere i would just echo what i read in dead or alive (paraphrase) "Just learn how to do one technique at a time starting with your strong hand, even if you can only straight punch well with your strong hand, it beats not being able to do anything and gives you a technique to use." (actually Geoff Thompsons Dead or Alive is a pretty good book if you are intrested in self defence)
> 
> I think thats a apt paraphrase i cant remember the wording for the life of me and cant fish the book out currently.    I dont think punching is the hardest thing to learn by yourself if you get some good information on how to do it, the main issue is the latter.


its very cloudy legally,  as you will find out if you ever premptivly stike someone and they report you to the police , i know this as it happend to me

people get into heated arguments all the time, this is seldom justification for kicking them in the nuts


----------



## Tai Mantis Warrior

jobo said:


> its very cloudy legally,  as you will find out if you ever premptivly stike someone and they report you to the police , i know this as it happend to me
> 
> people get into heated arguments all the time, this is seldom justification for kicking them in the nuts



In this case jobo has a point there’s always legal risk to touching someone without their permission.

But I don’t see any judge (even an unreasonable one, which seems to be the norm these days) who will convict a frail woman with lung disease for assault against a man, yes stranger things have happened but that’s still no reason for the OP not to learn how to defend herself.

Lisa, I suggest you begin stretching on your own now while you prepare to possibly attend your first in-person or online training session.

Do the yoga cat stretch, and the upside down V stretch thing I see my gf do every morning.  Make sure to focus on slowly and gradually stretching your hamstrings, groin, and hips.  Try out the front and side splits.  The increased flexibility and range of motion will make you feel like a million bucks, and it’ll make your body healthier too.

Also practice some basic punching in the mirror.. things like the classic 1-2 (left jab then right cross punch) as well as the hook and upper cut. This is your introduction to shadow boxing.

I find the single most the effective self defence technique for women is the upper cut palm strike to the opponent’s chin, temporarily stunning him and giving you a chance to run away.

After that, review these two videos by a couple of excellent judoka - including an Olympic gold medallist - demonstrating the first few basic trips and throws that everyone should know:











After we’ve turned you into a self defence expert, just promise us you won’t go around randomly beating up large men


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## Lisa lyons

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> After we’ve turned you into a self defence expert, just promise us you won’t go around randomly beating up large men


oh no i do like a big strong man   i have no intentions of hitting them. unless they get too close!


----------



## Flying Crane

I recommend you do not try to figure any of this out in the mirror, or via video.  Stick to basic cardio via the stationary bike, walking, etc. as approved by your doctor.  Wait until you are able to meet with a good instructor before you begin the martial training.

You have lung disease and describe yourself as very weak, which I read as frail.  Don’t start hitting things without guidance, because you can hurt yourself.  Trying to figure out the mechanics of a good punch in the mirror will ingrain bad habits that will likely lead to injury if you ever actually land the punch, either on a training bag or a person.

Trying to figure out some throws via video is a bad idea, especially given your description of your physical condition.  Again, a good way to get injured and develop bad habits.


----------



## Tai Mantis Warrior

Flying Crane said:


> I recommend you do not try to figure any of this out in the mirror, or via video.  Stick to basic cardio via the stationary bike, walking, etc. as approved by your doctor.  Wait until you are able to meet with a good instructor before you begin the martial training.
> 
> You have lung disease and describe yourself as very weak, which I read as frail.  Don’t start hitting things without guidance, because you can hurt yourself.  Trying to figure out the mechanics of a good punch in the mirror will ingrain bad habits that will likely lead to injury if you ever actually land the punch, either on a training bag or a person.
> 
> Trying to figure out some throws via video is a bad idea, especially given your description of your physical condition.  Again, a good way to get injured and develop bad habits.



This was true in the past, but not any more.

In a post covid epidemic world, personal instruction may not always be possible.  And the OP needs to start learning self defence ASAP, not in 12 years when the world possibly becomes normal again.

Videotape instruction may not be the best possible mode of teaching but it may be the only way available to most people for a very long time.

It’s  time for everyone to learn and adapt.. Lisa just make sure you always take it easy nobody knows your own body as well as you do - and as I previously stated those judo throws are only meant for visual review, not for you to perform unsupervised.

Let us know how the stretching and jkd is working out for you


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## isshinryuronin

You are a trained martial artist.  You are facing an opponent with his guard up.  You notice a quick sip of breath and a flairing of the nostrils.  There's a slight weight transfer and shoulder movement.  The hips initiate rotation.  You smack him.

Three eye witnesses all agree:  "This one guy was standing there, hands up for protection, faced off with this other guy who just went off and coldcocked him for no reason."

You get arrested for assault. 

I'm not getting into the legal issues, here.  The point is about threat perception.  You knew that other guy was launching an attack with an ETA of one second.  To your eye, the attack was in progress and you merely countered. 

If you had waited another second, all the witnesses would agree the other guy started it and a clear case of self-defense in your favor.  Maybe a legal victory for you, but a good chance of physical risk, too.

If you had a run in before with this guy who threatened to kill you the next time you met, and seeing him bear down on you with intent in his eyes, you strike him before he sets his guard.  Probably another trip to jail.

The problem is that perception of threat is a continuum.  One level gradually morphing into another.  A trained and experienced eye will notice a threat earlier than others.  Someone physically strong and combat trained may not care about that threat as seriously as another more vulnerable person.

Five people may see a threat five different ways.  Everyone's training and experience and physical abilities are different.  Each will interpret that threat at different points on the continuum, _even though in their minds, they are all at the same point -_  The point where action is called for.  Hard for outsiders to judge after the fact.

Conclusion?  Do what you see as proper and deal with the consequences?


----------



## Flying Crane

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> This was true in the past, but not any more.
> 
> In a post covid epidemic world, personal instruction may not always be possible.  And the OP needs to start learning self defence ASAP, not in 12 years when the world possibly becomes normal again.
> 
> Videotape instruction may not be the best possible mode of teaching but it may be the only way available to most people for a very long time.
> 
> It’s  time for everyone to learn and adapt.. Lisa just make sure you always take it easy nobody knows your own body as well as you do - and as I previously stated those judo throws are only meant for visual review, not for you to perform unsupervised.
> 
> Let us know how the stretching and jkd is working out for you


I disagree.  She can correct me if I have misunderstood, but I believe exercise is her main interest.  She can get that without martial arts, until martial arts are a safe option once again.

In the meantime, her physical condition would be a greater than typical liability of leading to injury, especially if trying to go it alone.  

Video is not a good option, definitely not for complete beginners,  most definitely not for complete beginners in her physical condition.  It can be a good supplemental tool for those receiving direct instruction, and during Covid it can be an option for those who are already experienced.  But even then, it is definitely sub-optimal.  Sometimes “something is better than nothing” is a falsehood, when that something is likely to lead to injury as well as bad habits, and simple frustration that will probably end in quitting altogether. 

For the OP, I highly advise against it.


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

Flying Crane said:


> I disagree.  She can correct me if I have misunderstood, but I believe exercise is her main interest.  She can get that without martial arts, until martial arts are a safe option once again.
> 
> In the meantime, her physical condition would be a greater than typical liability of leading to injury, especially if trying to go it alone.
> 
> Video is not a good option, definitely not for complete beginners,  most definitely not for complete beginners in her physical condition.  It can be a good supplemental tool for those receiving direct instruction, and during Covid it can be an option for those who are already experienced.  But even then, it is definitely sub-optimal.  Sometimes “something is better than nothing” is a falsehood, when that something is likely to lead to injury as well as bad habits, and simple frustration that will probably end in quitting altogether.
> 
> For the OP, I highly advise against it.



Stop being such a worry wart.  There’s nothing wrong with some simple stretching exercises and basic punching which can be easily corrected by one of the OP’s guy friends - such as the one who recommended the Jkd school to her.  Stop making huge obstacles out of even the most minor details.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP reviewing videos demonstrating very basic techniques by prominent experts - if for no other reason she can at least understand which arts contain which kind of techniques so she gains more knowledge of what there is to pick from.

And I could not possibly disagree with you more - there is absolutely NO good reason for Lisa to wait possibly 10 years or more for the world to get normal again to do things like simple stretching and basic punches that can easily be corrected by the men around her.  And the OP has just as much chance (if not moreso) of being injured at a training gym with others as she does performing simple stretches and punches on her own at home.

Her main interests are both exercise and self defence, otherwise she wouldn’t be asking so many questions about self defence and posting videos about self defence tactics and techniques.

Lisa definitely see a doctor first if you feel like stretching and throwing basic punches can lead to a possible medical emergency for you.


----------



## Flying Crane

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Stop being such a worry wart.  There’s nothing wrong with some simple stretching exercises and basic punching which can be easily corrected by one of the OP’s guy friends - such as the one who recommended the Jkd school to her.  Stop making huge obstacles out of even the most minor details.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP reviewing videos demonstrating techniques by prominent experts - if for no other reason she can at least understand which arts contain which kind of techniques so she gains more knowledge of what there is to pick from.
> 
> And I could not possibly disagree with you more - there is absolutely NO good reason for Lisa to wait possibly 10 years or more for the world to get normal again to do things like simple stretching and basic punches that can easily be corrected by the men around her.  And the OP has just as much chance (if not moreso) of being injured at a training gym with others as she does performing simple stretches and punches on her own at home.
> 
> Her main interests are both exercise and self defence, otherwise she wouldn’t be asking so many questions about self defence and posting videos about self defence tactics and techniques.
> 
> Lisa definitely see a doctor first if you feel like stretching and throwing basic punches can lead to a possible medical emergency for you.


She came here looking for advice.  I am giving her honest advice, which I stand by.  She can decide if she wants to heed the advice. 

And of course she can view any video she wants, to get an idea of what different methods include.  Educating herself is a good idea.  But I stand by my advice that she should not try to use videos to figure this out herself.


----------



## Lisa lyons

thank you everyone please do not argue


----------



## Dirty Dog

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Stop being such a worry wart.  There’s nothing wrong with some simple stretching exercises and basic punching which can be easily corrected by one of the OP’s guy friends - such as the one who recommended the Jkd school to her.  Stop making huge obstacles out of even the most minor details.
> 
> And I could not possibly disagree with you more - there is absolutely NO good reason for Lisa to wait possibly 10 years or more for the world to get normal again to do things like simple stretching and basic punches that can easily be corrected by the men around her.  And the OP has just as much chance (if not moreso) of being injured at a training gym with others as she does performing simple stretches and punches on her own at home.



More than a little sexist to just assume any random male in the vicinity will know how to fight and should teach her. I bet you've NEVER been accused of mansplaining...


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## Tai Mantis Warrior

Dirty Dog said:


> More than a little sexist to just assume any random male in the vicinity will know how to fight and should teach her. I bet you've NEVER been accused of mansplaining...



Well she won’t know unless she asks won’t she genius


----------



## jobo

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> This was true in the past, but not any more.
> 
> In a post covid epidemic world, personal instruction may not always be possible.  And the OP needs to start learning self defence ASAP, not in 12 years when the world possibly becomes normal again.
> 
> Videotape instruction may not be the best possible mode of teaching but it may be the only way available to most people for a very long time.
> 
> It’s  time for everyone to learn and adapt.. Lisa just make sure you always take it easy nobody knows your own body as well as you do - and as I previously stated those judo throws are only meant for visual review, not for you to perform unsupervised.
> 
> Let us know how the stretching and jkd is working out for you


well in a POST covid  world, things should be back to normal, the question is, when will this be¹

id be reluctant to tell someone to learn from videos, this was a bad idea before, the present situation hasnt made it better,  just left it as the only option in some cases, particularly if its videos like the groin grab one

my advice to anyone who identifies as " weak" would be to spend much of their inial efforts trying to stop being " weak" which ever aspect of their fitness they are refering to.

as there is no doubt that a reasonable level of fitness makes any number of self defence techniques more viable


----------



## Deleted member 39746

jobo said:


> its very cloudy legally,  as you will find out if you ever premptivly stike someone and they report you to the police , i know this as it happend to me
> 
> people get into heated arguments all the time, this is seldom justification for kicking them in the nuts



The usage of force always brings with it legal troubles, so long as you meet the crtieria for reasoonable force there is nothing agaisnt striking first on the threat.    And hell politically speaking some people have been done on trumped up charges over legitimate self defence anyway, not a reason to not do it.  (as the alternative can be worse than the legal loop holes, thats one of the assements you have to make when doing it)

The betetr example would be if some stranger accosts you fing and blinding and you punch them in the face and run off because some stranger just approached you aggresively and thats a legitimate cause for alarm and threat.     the middle ground would be a fence to have some obejctive evidence of a defensive posture. 

Oh the only legal advise i recall for that is, if you are the only two witnesses dont confess to the event happening, then for all purposes it didnt happen. Thats why you dont speak to polcie without a legal counsel so you dont talk your way into a charge.   If you tell the police anything, its then two persons word  (one of which is deemed more trustworthy (the police constables)) against you. 


@Lisa lyons 
Also, i will stand by buying and reading Dead or Alive by Geoff Thompson its a good book and plenty of people stand by it, and its not a gimmicky technique book.  (but does cover it a little) So its a general purpose book largely focused on awarness and prevention  and covers some basic techniques and methods you should do.  Its not that expensive either its £12 on paperback for amazon £8 for kindle.    I think Rory Miller and Peter Consterdine are go tos as well.   (obviously choose books accordingly to what you want to learn)    Books are fine to learn off the theory and principles for self defence, like the colour code, awarness tactics and some "drills" you can do to increase your awarness, how criminals work so fourth.     


Just on the Male point, Male and Female social violence is diffrent.  Males and Females fight diffrently and have a diffrent culture for fighting each other.   For example, i dont see many videos of two Males hair clinching each other and hitting the **** out of each other, you do see plenty of females fight like that.  The expetion for feamles would be the norm for two males fighting. (that being something like a tradtional kickboxing style with grappling and no default rules)  That and its still the norm for some places to be taught and think hitting Females as a Male is taboo and the usual athelticism disparity brings its own problems.  Not to mean they cant give advise, but there is a little truth to living something makes you understand it better, you can academically known everything about this culture but until you live it do you really know it?   LIke just because they are a Female doesnt mean they know anything about being a Female.  (i really dont want to word this like i support the notion a Gynacologist for example has to be female, because i really dont, so im going to end the tangent here before i word it even worse)

Addendum: There are various diffrent cultrual norms for fighting and sub cultrual norms, i was jsut focusing on the main diffrences i have seen between Male and Female.


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## WaterGal

Lisa lyons said:


> If a man was so aggressive to me i would hit first and ask questions later. you seem to think too much but maybe because you are a man..or maybe not. I do not understand any man who talks like you. most men i know protect a woman. you are very alarming!



I'm also a woman. If a guy pushes you, and you punch him, there's a reasonable chance that he'll punch back. And he's likely to be bigger and stronger than you. Especially if you're weak and have a lung disorder.

Personally, if you want to try martial arts, I'd recommend a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school that has a beginner's class that's mostly focused on drilling rather than rolling. Especially if they have a women's self-defense program. There's a BJJ program I really like called Women Empowered, which is available in some BJJ schools and also available as pre-recorded videos online that you can practice at home, if you have a partner you could work with.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> There’s nothing wrong with some simple stretching exercises and basic punching which can be easily corrected by one of the OP’s guy friends


Really? Could that sentence be much more sexist?


----------



## Tez3

WaterGal said:


> I'm also a woman. If a guy pushes you, and you punch him, there's a reasonable chance that he'll punch back. And he's likely to be bigger and stronger than you. Especially if you're weak and have a lung disorder.
> 
> Personally, if you want to try martial arts, I'd recommend a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school that has a beginner's class that's mostly focused on drilling rather than rolling. Especially if they have a women's self-defense program. There's a BJJ program I really like called Women Empowered, which is available in some BJJ schools and also available as pre-recorded videos online that you can practice at home, if you have a partner you could work with.



As another woman I agree wholeheartedly with this.

There's been some rubbish posted on here, sexist, dangerous and just plain wrong @ Tai Mantis Warrior. I hope you never attempt to teach women's self defence. As I said too much is taught from a male perspective without understanding what is behind male attacks on females, or other types of attacks on either sex on either sex for that matter!


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## Lisa lyons

WaterGal said:


> I'm also a woman. If a guy pushes you, and you punch him, there's a reasonable chance that he'll punch back. And he's likely to be bigger and stronger than you. Especially if you're weak and have a lung disorder.
> 
> Personally, if you want to try martial arts, I'd recommend a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school that has a beginner's class that's mostly focused on drilling rather than rolling. Especially if they have a women's self-defense program. There's a BJJ program I really like called* Women Empowered,* which is available in some BJJ schools and also available as pre-recorded videos online that you can practice at home, if you have a partner you could work with.


 ooh, i like the sound of this there is a BJJ school about 15 miles away. I do not know what type of BJJ it is as i know there are variations


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## BrendanF

Lisa lyons said:


> ooh, i like the sound of this there is a BJJ school about 15 miles away. I do not know what type of BJJ it is as i know there are variations



Variations but the basics should be essentially the same.  Would definitely be my recommendation.


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## Lisa lyons

BrendanF said:


> Variations but the basics should be essentially the same.  Would definitely be my recommendation.


which is the best school of BJJ? in your opinion


----------



## BrendanF

What's the best car?  Depends entirely on your values.  Danaher is regarded as head of one of the better competitive groups, if that's your interest.  I understand some of the Gracie groups maintain more of the old Gracie self defense stuff... one of the upsides of BJJ historically is well maintained standards; they're all good.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Lisa lyons said:


> ooh, i like the sound of this there is a BJJ school about 15 miles away. I do not know what type of BJJ it is as i know there are variations


If it's a good school, IMO it's difficult to go wrong with BJJ. Even if it's highly competition-oriented, the basic principles translate readily to self-defense. And if the idea appeals to you, then it's probably a good fit - something that's more important than many folks realize. The more appealing the approach (to you), the harder it'll be for you to find excuses not to go.


----------



## KenpoMaster805

Any kind of martial arts will do dont matter if your thin or not you can do many martial arts like karate kung fu taekwondo tai chi etc you just have to choose. i have heart disease and ive been doing karate for 7 years so if i can do it u can do it if you cant do certain cardio tell your instructor he or she will understand.


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> this looks great !



Sometimes one needs to strike whatever is available.  However, men tend to be protective of their private parts and a simple turn of hips to cover them with a thigh will often protect them well.  I usually recommend an attack to one or both knees.


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> are you afraid a woman is better than you? hang ups? self defence is just that no rules on the streets. I know a woman who was raped. you do not understand. what kind of mod are you?



A few points to ponder if you wish.
v
@jobo can be difficult to take.  I don't think English is his 1st language, but I think it s more the way he expresses himself than any difficulty with English.  He can even be abrasive from time to time.  Once you get past that you may find the occasional pearl of wisdom escaping from his lips

Moderators are people too.  They also are martial artists with varying amounts of knowledge in MA and people skills.  The point being, you came here asking advice and have side-slipped to giving it on MA.  You also take issue with other aspects of using MA with no obvious knowledge to base that on.  If something is said that you disagree with, why don't you say it and give your reason the that belief.  You don't need to be huffy about it unless it clearly crosses the bounds.

FWIW, I don't see the correctness of the comments of sexual assault in the context of protecting oneself from an attack.  If you are attacked by a man (or woman), any amount of pain/damage you inflict (possibly short of lethal actions) that are within the bounds of you locality's laws, to be able to get away, is acceptable in my book.

My advice on a martial art is one almost always given here at Martial Talk, check those that seem interesting to you, and are close enough for you to be able to get to them easily.  Go watch some of their classes to see if it is a fit for you.  Then make a decision.  Don't be afraid to change your mind after a few initial lessons.  Do let the instruction know your goals and physical condition before you make your final decision.

A final point. I don't recommend Hapkido or Aikido unless you are sure you won't be put off by the close contact and grabbing.  In my experience women are very uncomfortable with that.  You may be different and if so, then consider them.  Schools are what their owner/teacher wants them to be.  But again, in my experience, Hapkido is more likely to want to cause pain and/or damage.  Aikido practitioners know many ways to do that, but are satisfied to simply protect themselves until an attacker gets tired and leaves.  Not everyon may agree with that.


----------



## oftheherd11

Tai Mantis Warrior said:


> Preemptive striking is the very basis for effective self defence.  If a woman waits for an aggressor to strike first the fight has most likely already been lost.
> 
> Grabbing nuts is not the most effective self defence move, but it has worked and that’s why it’s taught so much in pretty much EVERY women’s self defence program.
> 
> But you must know more about women’s self defense than ALL the other reputable self defence instructors around the told who teach such techniques.
> 
> By the way: this thread is meant to help the OP find a good martial arts school, not for non-lawyers to discuss the legality of the martial arts technique taught.
> 
> Virtually every martial arts technique discussed in this forum is potentially illegal - depending on the personal whim of the sitting judge.
> 
> So a bunch of non-lawyers coming to this thread to write “you can’t do that, it’s potentially illegal!” is the ultimate in stating the obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely try the JKD school, depending on the instructor it may be even better than the KM.



I disagree with pretty much everything you have said.  You would do well to do some fact checking.

BTW, how many reputable self defence programs have you attended to know what they all teach?  Surely must keep you busy.


----------



## oftheherd11

jobo said:


> well in a POST covid  world, things should be back to normal, the question is, when will this be¹
> 
> id be reluctant to tell someone to learn from videos, this was a bad idea before, the present situation hasnt made it better,  just left it as the only option in some cases, particularly if its videos like the groin grab one
> 
> my advice to anyone who identifies as " weak" would be to spend much of their inial efforts trying to stop being " weak" which ever aspect of their fitness they are refering to.
> 
> as there is no doubt that a reasonable level of fitness makes any number of self defence techniques more viable





jobo said:


> well in a POST covid  world, things should be back to normal, the question is, when will this be¹
> 
> id be reluctant to tell someone to learn from videos, this was a bad idea before, the present situation hasnt made it better,  just left it as the only option in some cases, particularly if its videos like the groin grab one
> 
> my advice to anyone who identifies as " weak" would be to spend much of their inial efforts trying to stop being " weak" which ever aspect of their fitness they are refering to.
> 
> as there is no doubt that a reasonable level of fitness makes any number of self defence techniques more viable



I pretty much agree.  What I really like is that you made me realize what I think most of us (certainly myself!) have missed.  The OP is a self proclaimed weak person with lung problems.  We have concentrated on what martial art she should take (of course she did ask), not much on safety from COVID19, and her weak and with lung problems.  One member here who loves to put others down, has encouraged her to join a specific group MA with no knowledge of the qualifications of the instructor or his character, nor how that instructor may protect his students from COVID.  

Lisa, you need to find out more about that school and its instructor.  You need to find how teachers protect their students in any school you might find yourself interested in.  You might wish to spend your time on exercises you can safely do at home until you find a school you like.  Start slow and work up from their.  Good luck!


----------



## isshinryuronin

Re: women's self-defense - A basic strategy in most any combat-like situation is to exploit the opponent's weaknesses and maximize your strengths.  The opposite is also true - avoid the opponent's strengths and minimize the window to your own weaknesses.  I think this is a very sound foundation for strategy.  This is true for everyone, but especially so for female vs male conflicts since the differences between men and women (physically and psychologically) are often greater than in male vs male conflicts.

So here are some thoughts I have on this general topic...please accept these are generalizations. (Yes, there are men and women who are out of the norm and exceptional - like being the male 95 lb. weakling or Rhonda Rousey strong and skilled.)

The typical male is stronger and heavier than the typical female.  So, to minimize the male's advantage in this area, it seems wise to avoid grappling.  In light of this, I don't understand considering BJJ or judo as an ideal art for women's self-defense.  Staying _off_ the ground, to me, would be one of my primary goals against a bigger, stronger, attacker.   A female on the ground is akin to being forced into a car - At these points, the probable results are grim, so should be avoided at any cost.  I would suggest that a striking MA would be most effective.  Subtle and nuanced arts take longer to master and are often indirect with less margin of error.

In battle, the solution to a weak force having to fight a superior force is hit and run, like guerrilla warfare or special forces.  A sustained engagement is almost always in the superior force's favor.  Such situations have caused the greatest losses to the SEALs and other light armed security forces (Panama, Ethiopia, Benghazi).

IMO, a female's best option is to strike fast to vulnerable, high value, targets, immediately follow-up with striking until the attacker is at least semi-disabled, and get the heck away ASAP.   Unlike a gun, body mass targets are not ideal.  I think good targets are finger joints, eyes, throat, nose, ears (a la Mike Tyson vs Norton), temple, knees and groin. Good attacks are grabbing and ripping or snapping, biting, elbows, stomping and well placed kicking.

Psychologically, a woman must be mentally prepared to be vicious in executing the above.  This takes practice, just as in physical moves.   A man's biggest weakness, I think, is overconfidence when approaching a women for attack and should be exploited.  IMO, the woman should not raise a guard or attempt an attack until he is in striking distance.  I would not tip him off, keep him off-guard for as long as possible and then viciously surprise attack, continuing until the chance to escape presents itself.

Naturally, all of these are last resort tactics.  Avoidance and evasion should be the first choices whenever possible.


----------



## Lisa lyons

oftheherd11 said:


> @jobo can be difficult to take. I don't think English is his 1st language, but I think it s more the way he expresses himself than any difficulty with English. He can even be abrasive from time to time. Once you get past that you may find the occasional pearl of wisdom escaping from his lips


oh i don´t really mind. I sort of feel sorry for the man having 10,000 posts. seems to be on here 24/7.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

oftheherd11 said:


> A final point. I don't recommend Hapkido or Aikido unless you are sure you won't be put off by the close contact and grabbing. In my experience women are very uncomfortable with that. You may be different and if so, then consider them.


I'll just point out that the closest (and most grabby) kind of contact will come in BJJ. (Judo would be probably be next, in my range of experience) and Hapkido and Aikido a half-step (literally) more distant on average. That close contact is part of the real value of those, as it focuses more on controlling position and protecting, which is pretty core to defensive fighting (trying to get out of a bad situation) IMO.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

isshinryuronin said:


> Re: women's self-defense - A basic strategy in most any combat-like situation is to exploit the opponent's weaknesses and maximize your strengths.  The opposite is also true - avoid the opponent's strengths and minimize the window to your own weaknesses.  I think this is a very sound foundation for strategy.  This is true for everyone, but especially so for female vs male conflicts since the differences between men and women (physically and psychologically) are often greater than in male vs male conflicts.
> 
> So here are some thoughts I have on this general topic...please accept these are generalizations. (Yes, there are men and women who are out of the norm and exceptional - like being the male 95 lb. weakling or Rhonda Rousey strong and skilled.)
> 
> The typical male is stronger and heavier than the typical female.  So, to minimize the male's advantage in this area, it seems wise to avoid grappling.  In light of this, I don't understand considering BJJ or judo as an ideal art for women's self-defense.  Staying _off_ the ground, to me, would be one of my primary goals against a bigger, stronger, attacker.   A female on the ground is akin to being forced into a car - At these points, the probable results are grim, so should be avoided at any cost.  I would suggest that a striking MA would be most effective.  Subtle and nuanced arts take longer to master and are often indirect with less margin of error.
> 
> In battle, the solution to a weak force having to fight a superior force is hit and run, like guerrilla warfare or special forces.  A sustained engagement is almost always in the superior force's favor.  Such situations have caused the greatest losses to the SEALs and other light armed security forces (Panama, Ethiopia, Benghazi).
> 
> IMO, a female's best option is to strike fast to vulnerable, high value, targets, immediately follow-up with striking until the attacker is at least semi-disabled, and get the heck away ASAP.   Unlike a gun, body mass targets are not ideal.  I think good targets are finger joints, eyes, throat, nose, ears (a la Mike Tyson vs Norton), temple, knees and groin. Good attacks are grabbing and ripping or snapping, biting, elbows, stomping and well placed kicking.
> 
> Psychologically, a woman must be mentally prepared to be vicious in executing the above.  This takes practice, just as in physical moves.   A man's biggest weakness, I think, is overconfidence when approaching a women for attack and should be exploited.  IMO, the woman should not raise a guard or attempt an attack until he is in striking distance.  I would not tip him off, keep him off-guard for as long as possible and then viciously surprise attack, continuing until the chance to escape presents itself.
> 
> Naturally, all of these are last resort tactics.  Avoidance and evasion should be the first choices whenever possible.


The issue with striking, alone, is that in my experience it takes a relatively long time to learn to deliver damaging strikes unless you have mass (and strength) on your side. For someone who is slightly built and/or weak, their strikes may not be able to do enough damage to deter an attacker, until they get quite skilled at them. And if someone is attacking (not just fighting), they probably aren't going to stay out at sparring distance. Since the attacker is likelly to close that range, it's best to be able to deal with the grabbing and attempts to control. This is what grappling arts do.

I agree going to the ground isn't a best option, but if someone outweighing me by 60+ lbs and with more strength wants to put me there, I won't be able to stop them unless I'm more skilled at grappling. And if they do get me there, grappling is the only feasible way to get back up. Also, grappling locks (especially those found in groundwork) can often be used in ways that reduce the strength differential (getting legs involved against arms, putting the attacker in positions where he doesn't have good leverage, etc.).


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Lisa lyons said:


> oh i don´t really mind. I sort of feel sorry for the man having 10,000 posts. seems to be on here 24/7.


Why do you have a problem with people who've been on a forum for a long time?


----------



## Lisa lyons

gpseymour said:


> Why do you have a problem with people who've been on a forum for a long time?


is it not better to write fewer *quality *posts rather than just argumentative negative posts? 
if we put it into a martial arts contex why learn 1,000s of teqniques when you could learn less but more training quality. do you see my point?


----------



## oftheherd11

gpseymour said:


> I'll just point out that the closest (and most grabby) kind of contact will come in BJJ. (Judo would be probably be next, in my range of experience) and Hapkido and Aikido a half-step (literally) more distant on average. That close contact is part of the real value of those, as it focuses more on controlling position and protecting, which is pretty core to defensive fighting (trying to get out of a bad situation) IMO.



I am sure you have more experience with other arts, especially grappling arts, than I do.  I had thought that the BJJ grappling differed in its desire to get an opponent to the ground, go with him, and apply grapples that usually attacked an opponent's arms or legs, or whatever other things might present themselves.  I thought Hapkido would grab whatever it could and attack joints if possible, didn't mind putting an opponent to the ground, but didn't want to be there themselves.  Aikido might as well, but might not wish to pin an opponent although they wouldn't mind it, but would be happy to keep throwing an opponent around until he go tired and quit being aggressive.  All that in general terms of course.

Live and learn.


----------



## jobo

oftheherd11 said:


> I am sure you have more experience with other arts, especially grappling arts, than I do.  I had thought that the BJJ grappling differed in its desire to get an opponent to the ground, go with him, and apply grapples that usually attacked an opponent's arms or legs, or whatever other things might present themselves.  I thought Hapkido would grab whatever it could and attack joints if possible, didn't mind putting an opponent to the ground, but didn't want to be there themselves.  Aikido might as well, but might not wish to pin an opponent although they wouldn't mind it, but would be happy to keep throwing an opponent around until he go tired and quit being aggressive.  All that in general terms of course.
> 
> Live and learn.


i think his point maybe, that wrapping your self round an attacker,  may not be the best for quickly extraditing yourself from a situation


----------



## JowGaWolf

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Any kind of martial arts will do dont matter if your thin or not you can do many martial arts like karate kung fu taekwondo tai chi etc you just have to choose. i have heart disease and ive been doing karate for 7 years so if i can do it u can do it if you cant do certain cardio tell your instructor he or she will understand.


This is more along the lines I'm thinking of.  I'm weak or think I'm weak, then any martial art will make me stronger.  If a person is weak then almost any martial art activity will make them physically stronger in one way or the the other.

Based on what the OP described, she could do bicep curls with 5 or 10 pounds and still get stronger than she is now.  She could do push ups and get stronger from that.  Everyone gets stronger from push ups no matter how much they can lift.  Right now she's in a good spot in terms of getting results, because anything that she does will make her stronger.


----------



## isshinryuronin

gpseymour said:


> The issue with striking, alone, is that in my experience it takes a relatively long time to learn to deliver damaging strikes unless you have mass (and strength) on your side. For someone who is slightly built and/or weak, their strikes may not be able to do enough damage to deter an attacker, until they get quite skilled at them



You offer this as the reason for embracing grappling for SD.  I think the opposite - that basic, effective striking takes less time to learn and requires less raw strength than grappling.  I wrestled in junior college and it was the most exhaustive training I've done.  While I haven't done BJJ, I have seen a lot and it seems that, aside from weight and strength, the shorter limbs of the smaller person would make many BJJ techniques hard to execute.  Am I wrong here?  I still think going to the ground should be the LAST strategy for the smaller, weaker, opponent unless very, very, well trained.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Lisa lyons said:


> is it not better to write fewer *quality *posts rather than just argumentative negative posts?
> if we put it into a martial arts contex why learn 1,000s of teqniques when you could learn less but more training quality. do you see my point?


Is it not also an apt analogy that it's better to do a drill 1,000 times than once?

I agree that negative posts aren't necessary. That's why I asked about your negative comment about active members of a forum.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

oftheherd11 said:


> I am sure you have more experience with other arts, especially grappling arts, than I do.  I had thought that the BJJ grappling differed in its desire to get an opponent to the ground, go with him, and apply grapples that usually attacked an opponent's arms or legs, or whatever other things might present themselves.  I thought Hapkido would grab whatever it could and attack joints if possible, didn't mind putting an opponent to the ground, but didn't want to be there themselves.  Aikido might as well, but might not wish to pin an opponent although they wouldn't mind it, but would be happy to keep throwing an opponent around until he go tired and quit being aggressive.  All that in general terms of course.
> 
> Live and learn.


Those are reasonable generalizations, but the distance is also a big differentiator. BJJ tends (because it heavily focuses on groundwork) to work a VERY close distances a lot. To compare Judo to Aikido/Hapkido (same base), Kano once referred to Aikido as "Judo at arm's length" or something similar.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

isshinryuronin said:


> You offer this as the reason for embracing grappling for SD.  I think the opposite - that basic, effective striking takes less time to learn and requires less raw strength than grappling.  I wrestled in junior college and it was the most exhaustive training I've done.  While I haven't done BJJ, I have seen a lot and it seems that, aside from weight and strength, the shorter limbs of the smaller person would make many BJJ techniques hard to execute.  Am I wrong here?  I still think going to the ground should be the LAST strategy for the smaller, weaker, opponent unless very, very, well trained.


Imagine a small man punching against a larger man. Imagine both are highly experienced boxers. The difference in mass makes the outcome pretty predictable. Now if the smaller guy is highly skilled and the bigger guy is not, that changes. But moderately skilled person who is much smaller than their opponent has a problem if all they can rely upon is strikes, because that bigger person can probably get ahold of them and bear them to the ground. Grappling can even some of that out pretty quickly, by allowing better control of that close range, which opens up escape routes.

I agree striking is easier to learn to basic proficiency (it's an area of early emphasis in my curriculum for that reason). I just don't think that most basic level goes far enough in giving opportunities to control the situation against a larger attacker. If it fails, having solid basic groundwork is a good idea.

Ideally, a mixture of both gives better choices.


----------



## JowGaWolf

gpseymour said:


> Imagine a small man punching against a larger man. Imagine both are highly experienced boxers. The difference in mass makes the outcome pretty predictable. Now if the smaller guy is highly skilled and the bigger guy is not, that changes. But moderately skilled person who is much smaller than their opponent has a problem if all they can rely upon is strikes, because that bigger person can probably get ahold of them and bear them to the ground. Grappling can even some of that out pretty quickly, by allowing better control of that close range, which opens up escape routes.
> 
> I agree striking is easier to learn to basic proficiency (it's an area of early emphasis in my curriculum for that reason). I just don't think that most basic level goes far enough in giving opportunities to control the situation against a larger attacker. If it fails, having solid basic groundwork is a good idea.
> 
> Ideally, a mixture of both gives better choices.


When I taught self defense to teens, it was always in the context of someone one larger attacking them.  The first things that I taught them were awareness, sensitivity, and escape.  The awareness is keep to any self-defense.  Sensitivity and escape were directed towards escaping someone's attempts to grab them.  

I didn't teach them any attacks because I didn't want them to bite off more than they could chew in a bad situation.   I didn't teach them to strike because I didn't want them to think that they could punch their way out of everything. This was before BJJ hit mainstream.  I would probably take the same path today, but would include defense against take downs for when they are in a position that requires them to stand their ground.  My entire concept of self-defense is.  Striking only works when they can strike you.  Grappling only works when they can grab you.  So be good at denying your attacker those things then escape.


----------



## Steve

I may be mistaken    but I think you guys are being trolled by the OP and some of her friends.


----------



## jobo

Steve said:


> I may be mistaken    but I think you guys are being trolled by the OP and some of her friends.


i think your wrong, i think we are being trolled by one person with multiple accounts


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> is it not better to write fewer *quality *posts rather than just argumentative negative posts?
> if we put it into a martial arts contex why learn 1,000s of teqniques when you could learn less but more training quality. do you see my point?



Well, many think it is desirable to have as many tools in one's toolbox as possible.  Of course one would want quality tools.  Do you think having a lot of tools in and of itself would indicate many were not quality?


----------



## Lisa lyons

gpseymour said:


> I agree that* negative posts aren't necessary.* That's why I asked about your negative comment about active members of a forum.


well if you had bothered to read the thread(s) properly you would have seen that at least one other member posted first about his non stop posting on every thread & 10,000 posts. I agreed with him that most of his posts are just him argueing *his *point of view all the time. seems to be an expert on every subject. does not accept other views or opinions. now i see he has even wrote on this thread everyone else is a troll or fake accounts. why? because a few people think he´s annoying. which he is ! calling others trolls is ignorant so remember your own words.


----------



## Lisa lyons

jobo said:


> i think your wrong, i think we are being* trolled by one person *with multiple accounts


Yes !!  YOU _. if you can´t contribute to this thread please leave it._ insulting others because they do not agree with you is wrong. you are ruining this thread! move on !

Can´t believe you are calling half this thread trolls


----------



## Tez3

Lisa lyons said:


> Yes !!  YOU _. if you can´t contribute to this thread please leave it._ insulting others because they do not agree with you is wrong. you are ruining this thread! move on !
> 
> Can´t believe you are calling half this thread trolls



Actually he has made some very good points. As for having a lot of posts, this site has hundreds of threads going at any one time, covering many martial arts and some non martial arts themes as well. 
I've got a lot of posts because I've been here for 15 years, no, Jobo isn't here all the time, like many of us he has a life he gets on with and comes back when he has time, I wouldn't consider he has posted a lot on this thread but it is supposed to be a conversation so people do post when they have something to say. He and I have disagreed many times, we'll disagree again soon no doubt but I can certainly see where he's coming from on this thread

On your profile you say you are 57, is this correct? Starting martial arts isn't impossible when you're older but it is more difficult. Can you tell us exactly what your aiming from from a martial art, perhaps you can also dispel any idea people would have that you are trolling or not who you say you are?


----------



## Dirty Dog

Lisa lyons said:


> well if you had bothered to read the thread(s) properly you would have seen that at least one other member posted first about his non stop posting on every thread & 10,000 posts. I agreed with him that most of his posts are just him argueing *his *point of view all the time. seems to be an expert on every subject. does not accept other views or opinions. now i see he has even wrote on this thread everyone else is a troll or fake accounts. why? because a few people think he´s annoying. which he is ! calling others trolls is ignorant so remember your own words.



10,000 is too many posts? Of dear. I'm way past that. We've got several people with post counts in the 40,000-50,000 range.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Dirty Dog said:


> 10,000 is too many posts? Of dear. I'm way past that. We've got several people with post counts in the 40,000-50,000 range.


yes but did you join in 2017?


----------



## Lisa lyons

Tez3 said:


> Can you tell us exactly what your aiming from from a martial art, perhaps you can also dispel any idea people would have that you are trolling or not who you say you are?


i´m pretty much sure i did if you read through my posts.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Lisa lyons said:


> yes but did you join in 2017?



So what difference does it make? If someone has something to say, they post. It's actually weirder (to my way of thinking) to get on a discussion forum and NOT post.
Perhaps you can enlighten us and tell us exactly how many posts per week is acceptable?


----------



## Lisa lyons

Dirty Dog said:


> If someone has something to say, they post.


100% correct but quality posts not just hundreds of posts on multiple threads about everything & anything.


----------



## Steve

Wing Chun was, and this is 100% true, developed by a woman so that she could defeat the shaolin monks who wanted to beat her up.  Now, this is the stuff of legends, because it all happened in prehistoric times...  like 200 or 300 years ago.  Anyway, she learned Kung Fu from her father, and then passed it along to her husband, because he wasn't very strong, either.  I think you should train Wing Chun.  This would be my number 1 recommendation to you.

Number 2 would be BJJ.  BJJ was created by people who weren't strong enough to train Judo.  Basically, a big dude from Japan moved to Brazil, and this guy had a kid who was just a little peanut... weak and frail.  He said, "Hey man.  My son is getting bullied at school.  Can you help him?"  And so, Helio began training in Judo, which he quickly developed into BJJ.  So, if you don't need to go number 1, maybe you could try going number 2.

Another option is TKD.  I don't think any explanation is needed for that one.

Aikido is good for weak people.  You just sort of wait for people to punch the air around you.  If you're good at getting beat up, this will allow you to get beat up with style.

If you like rolling around and wearing cool outfits, you could try ninjutsu.  

Systema is good if you don't like to exercise.  There is nothing inconsistent about a chunky systema master.

Anyway, lots of options.  Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Steve

oftheherd11 said:


> @jobo can be difficult to take.  I don't think English is his 1st language,


I am rolling.  I think he's from Manchester... so, yeah, maybe English isn't his first language! 

Now, can we finally put to rest any squirrelly ideas that people from the UK speak and/or write proper English?  I think a strong case can be made that you have done more damage to the Queen's English than Americans ever could.


----------



## Tez3

Lisa lyons said:


> i´m pretty much sure i did if you read through my posts.



Perhaps then you can explain why you think other players are thinking you're trolling or associated with another poster on here? I'm curious as to what you think about it.

On the subject of quality posts, do you mean giggly ones about strong men? Quality is in the eye of the beholder and the posters who've been here long enough to know people rather than make snap judgments.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Steve said:


> Wing Chun was, and this is 100% true, developed by a woman so that she could defeat the shaolin monks who wanted to beat her up.  Now, this is the stuff of legends, because it all happened in prehistoric times...  like 200 or 300 years ago.  Anyway, she learned Kung Fu from her father, and then passed it along to her husband, because he wasn't very strong, either.  I think you should train Wing Chun.  This would be my number 1 recommendation to you.
> 
> Number 2 would be BJJ.  BJJ was created by people who weren't strong enough to train Judo.  Basically, a big dude from Japan moved to Brazil, and this guy had a kid who was just a little peanut... weak and frail.  He said, "Hey man.  My son is getting bullied at school.  Can you help him?"  And so, Helio began training in Judo, which he quickly developed into BJJ.  So, if you don't need to go number 1, maybe you could try going number 2.
> 
> Another option is TKD.  I don't think any explanation is needed for that one.
> 
> Aikido is good for weak people.  You just sort of wait for people to punch the air around you.  If you're good at getting beat up, this will allow you to get beat up with style.
> 
> If you like rolling around and wearing cool outfits, you could try ninjutsu.
> 
> Systema is good if you don't like to exercise.  There is nothing inconsistent about a chunky systema master.
> 
> Anyway, lots of options.  Let us know how it goes.


yes WC i think is a good system. I am looking at JKD as i wrote on another thread a friend teaches it. It has everything you need . he has in his small school 2 wooden dummy things


----------



## Steve

Lisa lyons said:


> yes WC i think is a good system. I am looking at JKD as i wrote on another thread a friend teaches it. It has everything you need . he has in his small school 2 wooden dummy things


You have to be really strong to do JKD.  Bruce Lee, who invented JKD, was well known to have more strength (pound for pound) than any other person in the world at that time.  He perfected the 1 inch punch, and in the movie Enter the Dragon, he kicked a guy who flew like 20 feet.  And that was before computer graphics, so it was real.

I really don't think JKD is a good option for you.  

have you looked at Kyudo?


----------



## Lisa lyons

Steve said:


> have you looked at Kyudo?


have never heard of it


----------



## Lisa lyons

Archery ?  should i walk around with a bow & arrows?  maybe help my strength pulling a bow but for outside?


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> I am rolling.  I think he's from Manchester... so, yeah, maybe English isn't his first language!
> 
> Now, can we finally put to rest any squirrelly ideas that people from the UK speak and/or write proper English?  I think a strong case can be made that you have done more damage to the Queen's English than Americans ever could.




Lancastrians don't speak the Queen's English, they speak a dialect of English as do many in the UK, we have a lot of dialects. A dialect is not an accent.

Officially it's language family is.... 'Indo-European Germanic West Germanic Ingvaeonic English Lancashire Dialect.'


----------



## Steve

Lisa lyons said:


> Archery ?  should i walk around with a bow & arrows?  maybe help my strength pulling a bow but for outside?


It would really help you avoid being involved in a physical altercation with someone stronger, and a bow and arrow is what is called a 'force multiplier' in self defense terms.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> Lancastrians don't speak the Queen's English, they speak a dialect of English as do many in the UK, we have a lot of dialects. A dialect is not an accent.
> 
> Officially it's language family is.... 'Indo-European Germanic West Germanic Ingvaeonic English Lancashire Dialect.'


My friend, we humble Americans get chided by folks from the UK for murdering the English language.  My point is that you can't kill what is already dead.


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> My friend, we humble Americans get chided by folks from the UK for murdering the English language.  My point is that you can't kill what is already dead.




Mmm, you don't just murder it you fling the body at our feet!

Still I can't say the grand English art of tongue in cheek is lost on you, I applaud your efforts, definitely deserved I think.


----------



## Steve

Tez3 said:


> Mmm, you don't just murder it you fling the body at our feet!
> 
> Still I can't say the grand English art of tongue in cheek is lost on you, I applaud your efforts, definitely deserved I think.


I'm genuinely stunned you allowed me to get away with saying 'humble Americans.'  I'll take that win and cash out while I'm ahead.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Lisa lyons said:


> 100% correct but quality posts not just hundreds of posts on multiple threads about everything & anything.



I'm so sorry. I seem to have missed the vote that granted you the right to determine not only how many posts are acceptable, but also the sole arbiter of post quality.  

Jobo and I agree on very very little. But as long as he stays within the Terms of Service, he's welcome to post as much as he likes. Just like every other user.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Tez3 said:


> Mmm, you don't just murder it you fling the body at our feet!
> 
> Still I can't say the grand English art of tongue in cheek is lost on you, I applaud your efforts, definitely deserved I think.


Hmm .. what has this to do with the thread? & you speak about trolling


----------



## Lisa lyons

[QUOTE="Dirty Dog, post: 2028086, member: 20725"*]Jobo and I agree on very very little.*[/QUOTE]
and that my friend was my point he writes just for the sake of it on multiple threads. never mind. get back on topic.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Lisa lyons said:


> Hmm .. what has this to do with the thread? & you speak about trolling


There's a difference between trolling and being off-topic. If you don't like posts off-topic to a thread, you might find MartialTalk a bit tedious. We drift pretty quickly, and often in pretty silly ways.


----------



## Lisa lyons

gpseymour said:


> you might find MartialTalk a bit tedious.


no just one person.


----------



## Lisa lyons

anyway this conversation is getting tedious. i & a few others have their opinions which i think should be ok.


----------



## Tez3

Lisa lyons said:


> Hmm .. what has this to do with the thread? & you speak about trolling



We are all about conversations here, often things do go off topic as some will make a joke or post a memory/something they'd seen, read or heard, just as if we were sat in a pub or cafe chatting over drinks or coffee and Danish. It's what many of us do after training, it's what makes this site different from others, we converse as well as debate.

Now, about trolling, I asked you why you thought people would think you were trolling on here or were likely to be connected in some way with another poster, you didn't answer. I am genuinely curious on this issue, I  haven't said anyone IS trolling btw.

Your comments on the amounts on posting are unneccesary, do you tell people to stop talking in real life or that they talk too much? Worse do you tell them that what they say is worthless? Some people are more loquacious than others, some take a while to get around to their point. However here we try to emulate real life (or better) in that there's room for all sorts to chat and give their opinions. Yes they will have their opinions challenged and people have to defend their views but that's to the good if done in a civilised manner with proper citations as you would in academia for example or at a dinner party with people who know how a discussion should be conducted. 

For someone so new here and to be so critical is........ interesting.


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> I'm genuinely stunned you allowed me to get away with saying 'humble Americans.'  I'll take that win and cash out while I'm ahead.




I just thought you were speaking hypothetically.


----------



## Flying Crane

There is an ignore feature if you no longer wish to see what a certain person has to say.  If you find someone too aggravating to interact with, the ignore feature allows you to separate yourself from them.  I have several people on ignore.  It is useful.  I suggest you use it.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Flying Crane said:


> There is an ignore feature if you no longer wish to see what a certain person has to say.  If you find someone too aggravating to interact with, the ignore feature allows you to separate yourself from them.  I have several people on ignore.  It is useful.  I suggest you use it.


yes i am a positive person. just feeling negative chi from some on here.


----------



## oftheherd11

Steve said:


> I am rolling.  I think he's from Manchester... so, yeah, maybe English isn't his first language!
> 
> Now, can we finally put to rest any squirrelly ideas that people from the UK speak and/or write proper English?  I think a strong case can be made that you have done more damage to the Queen's English than Americans ever could.



I am not good on specific english geography so I guess I owe jobo an apology on that.  

I am willing to put to rest any squirrelly ideas about people speaking proper English if you can define proper English.  I would thank that would be as difficult as speaking proper american English.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on how I have done damage to the Queen's English than Americans given that I am an American.


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> yes WC i think is a good system. I am looking at JKD as i wrote on another thread a friend teaches it. It has everything you need . he has in his small school 2 wooden dummy things



Looks like we are really good here on MT!  You have become quite educated on several arts.  

It's kind of why I am usually reluctant to recommend an art beyond what looks good to an individual and close enough to get to.  Choice of martial arts is a very personal decision and I would not like to influence a person incorrectly.


----------



## oftheherd11

Tez3 said:


> Lancastrians don't speak the Queen's English, they speak a dialect of English as do many in the UK, we have a lot of dialects. A dialect is not an accent.
> 
> Officially it's language family is.... '*Indo-European Germanic West Germanic Ingvaeonic English Lancashire Dialect.*'


.

I bet you can't say that five times in a row without making a mistakel.


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> yes i am a positive person. just feeling negative chi from some on here.



Not that I am keeping track, but this isn't the first time you have used a term or concept you shouldn't know or understand in this thread, at least relative to MA.  For some reason I find that interesting.


----------



## Steve

Lisa lyons said:


> yes i am a positive person. just feeling negative chi from some on here.


I love chi lattes.


oftheherd11 said:


> I am not good on specific english geography so I guess I owe jobo an apology on that.
> 
> I am willing to put to rest any squirrelly ideas about people speaking proper English if you can define proper English.  I would thank that would be as difficult as speaking proper american English.
> 
> Perhaps you could enlighten me on how I have done damage to the Queen's English than Americans given that I am an American.


Okay.  You got this all turned around.  First, just to be clear, my post was intended to be a lighthearted joke. It alludes to a  common assertion by folks across the pond that Americans, particularly in parts of the country with strong dialects, butcher the language.  And often, they're right about that.  And also the implication that if we do, they do not.  And often, they're wrong about that.    

So, my post had nothing to do with you butchering the language.  Your innocent post was hilarious because you earnestly and without irony suggested that @jobo's ability to communicate in his native language is so bad, one could honestly believe he's not fluent in English.  That's funny.  Funny because he's so bad at communicating in his native language, and in particular because he's from the UK. 

Hope this clears things up.


----------



## Lisa lyons

oftheherd11 said:


> *Not that I am keeping track*, but this isn't the first time you have used a term or concept you shouldn't know or understand in this thread, at least relative to MA.  For some reason I find that interesting.


----------



## Ivan

Lisa lyons said:


> can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman? i have trained  in a gym but i am sadly very weak. I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio. I want to still try training in martial arts.


Martial arts are designed to be used by the weak, so they can make themselves strong.
Anything you choose will be a great starting point towards improving yourself mentally or physically - it's just a matter of how much your body can currently take. I would recommend you continue to train with your bike, and begin some light home workouts and meditation, to bring up your general fitness level. 

I am usually one who opts for extreme methods and throwing people into the deep end as that's how I was hardened myself, but it is important to understand your limits before you push past them.


----------



## Marlene Morga

Lisa, all I can say is to keep going for your dream. You have the willpower to succeed. I hope you feel better soon.  I believe you have the talent and the awesomeness to practice martial arts. Stay safe and be strong.


----------



## Gerry Seymour

Steve said:


> I love chi lattes.


I found that unreasonably funny, Steve.


----------



## Tames D

Tez3 said:


> We are all about conversations here, often things do go off topic as some will make a joke or post a memory/something they'd seen, read or heard, just as if we were sat in a pub or cafe chatting over drinks or coffee and Danish. It's what many of us do after training, it's what makes this site different from others, we converse as well as debate.
> 
> Now, about trolling, I asked you why you thought people would think you were trolling on here or were likely to be connected in some way with another poster, you didn't answer. I am genuinely curious on this issue, I  haven't said anyone IS trolling btw.
> 
> Your comments on the amounts on posting are unneccesary, do you tell people to stop talking in real life or that they talk too much? Worse do you tell them that what they say is worthless? Some people are more loquacious than others, some take a while to get around to their point. However here we try to emulate real life (or better) in that there's room for all sorts to chat and give their opinions. Yes they will have their opinions challenged and people have to defend their views but that's to the good if done in a civilised manner with proper citations as you would in academia for example or at a dinner party with people who know how a discussion should be conducted.
> 
> *For someone so new here and to be so critical is........ interesting*.



Ah, but is She or He new here??


----------



## Tez3

oftheherd11 said:


> I am not good on specific english geography so I guess I owe jobo an apology on that.
> 
> I am willing to put to rest any squirrelly ideas about people speaking proper English if you can define proper English.  I would thank that would be as difficult as speaking proper american English.
> 
> Perhaps you could enlighten me on how I have done damage to the Queen's English than Americans given that I am an American.




Proper English is 'Received Pronounciation', which is accentless English used by the BBC in its early days. Look up early BBC broadcasts to hear what it sounded like this along with proper spelling and grammar makes up the Queen's English, or as we know it how posh people talk. The way most Brits speak is either in dialect or with an accent. Dialects are great, accents not so much, Estuary English is disgusting and needs to have all speakers shot. Some accents are amusing, some mysterious. Dialects are usually unintelligible but priceless, the dialect where I am in North Yorkshire contains quite a few Norse words left by the Vikings. This also being in Yorkshire we are the natural enemies of people like No no from Lancashire. Yes it's been going on since the 15th century CE.


----------



## Deleted member 39746

Ivan said:


> Martial arts are designed to be used by the weak, so they can make themselves strong.
> Anything you choose will be a great starting point towards improving yourself mentally or physically - it's just a matter of how much your body can currently take. I would recommend you continue to train with your bike, and begin some light home workouts and meditation, to bring up your general fitness level.



Ehhhh, not really.    Some make the assumption you are strong so dont do S&C ergo, if you are all farmers in 1500 China, you are all probbly sufficently strong due to the manual labour you do day in and out. 

Not to put anyone off it, but not all are like that and not all do S&C and some were made with the presumption you are strong or get fitness elsewhere. Actually the in thing for a while on a lot was you get fitness elsehwere as the best you did fitness wise at some was warm up calisphenics. (thats still a issue today)    the anti strength cult and brigade still does exist to this day.  

Now how ever some are made with the presumption you need fitness training so do that, a good point to make is (military)Defendu was made and had to tailor to the Home guard (old men) SoE (anyone) and also the general infantry and military.    so it had to be tailorable to your sterotypical can move a mountain commando and someone who is probbly 40, missing a leg and has been a typist.  And it was largely altered to fit those brackets. (defendu for the purpose just means U.K comabtives of the time)    You can see the training requirements for all 3 of those subsections being diffrent and the standard level and expetation of fitness being diffrent.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Marlene Morga said:


> Lisa, all I can say is to keep going for your dream. You have the willpower to succeed. I hope you feel better soon.  I believe you have the talent and the awesomeness to practice martial arts. Stay safe and be strong.


Thank you marlene. I was learning this last night.


----------



## Steve

Lisa lyons said:


> Thank you marlene. I was learning this last night.


It's great that in the modern era, using technology, people can learn to effectively defend themselves through videos and YouTube. It's always been easy to learn self defense just by training earnestly.  We have a guy on here who is a real self defense expert.  He's overcome his lack of experience through dedicated training and reading a lot of books on Samurai.  It's amazing what you can do.  He teaches other people self defense now. 

Keep watching the videos, follow your dreams, and remember that dreams remain dreams until you take some action!  Also, it's a good idea to eat leafy green vegetables and mind your cholesterol.  And remember, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.  If you stick with it, in a few years you can start your own business.


----------



## Tez3

Steve said:


> It's great that in the modern era, using technology, people can learn to effectively defend themselves through videos and YouTube. It's always been easy to learn self defense just by training earnestly.  We have a guy on here who is a real self defense expert.  He's overcome his lack of experience through dedicated training and reading a lot of books on Samurai.  It's amazing what you can do.  He teaches other people self defense now.
> 
> Keep watching the videos, follow your dreams, and remember that dreams remain dreams until you take some action!  Also, it's a good idea to eat leafy green vegetables and mind your cholesterol.  And remember, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.  If you stick with it, in a few years you can start your own business.




Are you sure you aren't British? 
That was a very British post, loved it.


----------



## oftheherd11

Lisa lyons said:


> Thank you marlene. I was learning this last night.



You say you were learning this last night.  Can you explain the moves taught in this video?

Thanks.


----------



## Lisa lyons

oftheherd11 said:


> You say you were learning this last night.  Can you explain the moves taught in this video?
> 
> Thanks.


no time watch the video there is a second part too

Thanks.


----------



## PhilE

Lisa lyons said:


> can anyone recommend a system for a thin woman? i have trained  in a gym but i am sadly very weak. I have a lung disease so i have trouble doing cardio. I want to still try training in martial arts.



As someone else said, check in with a doctor as to what you can do.

Try chi gung and Tai Chi for the lungs, but only if a doctor says deep breathing exercises are ok.  Some restorative yoga may help also, but only in the Iyengar system and with a suitably qualified teacher. (Avoid teachers with a one month qualification.)  

If all the above are ok, and IF the doctor approves you for light cardio, look around for a gentle martial arts class, where the teacher knows of and can assist you with your condition.


----------



## ernst

you can try shiatsu (wish is mostly done before aikido)
tai chi / before kung fu or any form of tao massage


----------



## ernst

Many books can be found here, for example:
Chi Self-Massage: The Taoist Way of Rejuvenation  | Mantak Chia, Juan Li | download


----------



## Buka

Lisa lyons said:


> yes i am a positive person. just feeling negative chi from some on here.



Lisa, are you really a fifty seven year old woman?

If you are, please be careful not to overdo it going forward. Go easy, get as fit as you can as easy as you can, walk, stretch, *ask your physician's advice first.*


----------



## Buka

Lisa lyons said:


> [QUOTE="Dirty Dog, post: 2028086, member: 20725"*]Jobo and I agree on very very little.*


and that my friend was my point he writes just for the sake of it on multiple threads. never mind. get back on topic. [/QUOTE]

Mss Lisa, if you do eventually join a dojo you will be better served leaving the attitude with the shoes outside the dojo floor.


----------



## Syeed Ali

I tried to read through, but at some point I ended up skimming, so I'm sure I have an incomplete picture.


@Lisa lyons - What problem are you trying to solve?

You opened with your limitations then hinted at curiosity in martial arts.

If you are only interested in your health/fitness, then "martial arts" of any variety is adding unnecessary complexity. Some in this thread have offered merely martial arts-touched directions to pursue (maybe basic tai chi exercise, and not a martial tai chi chuan), and I agree with that. These are lopsided toward more internal things and away from the hard great-cardio-requiring physicality of most martial arts. Learning some lesser version of a martial art which has been tuned down to your handicap might actually demoralize you since you might never "get good" (if only to your own satisfaction).

More than once you've been directed toward your doctors for advice. _Go to them_. Then come back and tell everyone so you can get better-tuned opinions.

I read others recommending a personal trainer or solo-time with a master. Instead, I would say you get a physiotherapist. A few consultations, perhaps even held remotely via webcam, would help you better understand yourself and give you some specialized exercises. While some (_some!_) masters will have good expertise that can help you specifically, the right physiotherapist is exactly the right person to get advice from. Plus I'd bet physio would be cheaper.

Now.

I'm going to push toward something that might not apply to you.

Some people pair the social and cultural with activity. A martial art has a community which can act as a motivator. Maybe a gym is just too undirected, boring and lonely and martial arts would be the cure. But martial arts are not necessarily _for_ those things. Again I ask _what problem needs to be solved?_ Heck, Pilates might be the answer. Getting a hobby, making a friend and going to the gym together might be the answer.

The self-drive necessary to pursue something physical alone might be the problem that needs to be solved. Maybe it's solved by doing something social-physical, or maybe it's solved by improving one's own self-drive (_somehow_; this is my own flaw).

I have a parallel concern, as I have withered dangerously and need to get a little fit. I was once quite "into" things, and sketched out a self-directed program in 2004 that just so happens to be perfect for what I'm struggling with now. (thanks past-self!)  I intend to make a video series talking about and demonstrating everything I go through, over the course of the next several years I'm sure, since I think that's the way I can motivate myself; by teaching and showing.

I'd talk about my own concerns on this forum, but they wouldn't get into martial arts for many years. Well technically I'd be pursuing very important martial foundations but talking from a martial perspective is a distraction.


----------



## Lisa lyons

Syeed Ali said:


> I tried to read through, but at some point I ended up skimming, so I'm sure I have an incomplete picture.
> 
> 
> @Lisa lyons - What problem are you trying to solve?
> 
> You opened with your limitations then hinted at curiosity in martial arts.
> 
> If you are only interested in your health/fitness, then "martial arts" of any variety is adding unnecessary complexity. Some in this thread have offered merely martial arts-touched directions to pursue (maybe basic tai chi exercise, and not a martial tai chi chuan), and I agree with that. These are lopsided toward more internal things and away from the hard great-cardio-requiring physicality of most martial arts. Learning some lesser version of a martial art which has been tuned down to your handicap might actually demoralize you since you might never "get good" (if only to your own satisfaction).
> 
> More than once you've been directed toward your doctors for advice. _Go to them_. Then come back and tell everyone so you can get better-tuned opinions.
> 
> I read others recommending a personal trainer or solo-time with a master. Instead, I would say you get a physiotherapist. A few consultations, perhaps even held remotely via webcam, would help you better understand yourself and give you some specialized exercises. While some (_some!_) masters will have good expertise that can help you specifically, the right physiotherapist is exactly the right person to get advice from. Plus I'd bet physio would be cheaper.
> 
> Now.
> 
> I'm going to push toward something that might not apply to you.
> 
> Some people pair the social and cultural with activity. A martial art has a community which can act as a motivator. Maybe a gym is just too undirected, boring and lonely and martial arts would be the cure. But martial arts are not necessarily _for_ those things. Again I ask _what problem needs to be solved?_ Heck, Pilates might be the answer. Getting a hobby, making a friend and going to the gym together might be the answer.
> 
> The self-drive necessary to pursue something physical alone might be the problem that needs to be solved. Maybe it's solved by doing something social-physical, or maybe it's solved by improving one's own self-drive (_somehow_; this is my own flaw).
> 
> I have a parallel concern, as I have withered dangerously and need to get a little fit. I was once quite "into" things, and sketched out a self-directed program in 2004 that just so happens to be perfect for what I'm struggling with now. (thanks past-self!)  I intend to make a video series talking about and demonstrating everything I go through, over the course of the next several years I'm sure, since I think that's the way I can motivate myself; by teaching and showing.
> 
> I'd talk about my own concerns on this forum, but they wouldn't get into martial arts for many years. Well technically I'd be pursuing very important martial foundations but talking from a martial perspective is a distraction.


WOW...great post.


----------



## Lisa lyons

I had a very good training session this morning.  I feel like a Gorilla but a big pink one


----------



## Lisa lyons

jeet kune Do  is really my way.


----------



## Lisa lyons

i have started to go for evening walks too. it´s cold but i am braving it !


----------



## Razznik

Lisa lyons said:


> Thank you marlene. I was learning this last night.


I'm not a master at martial arts but I'm pretty sure his whole entire stance was wrong. Another thing I don't understand is why his fists were tucked in behind his body. I also don't understand how you would injure someone with a fist like that. I mean even if he did the move in slow motion, how would you injure an opponent purely by twisting your hand? 
Thank you for enlightening me


----------



## Razznik

Anyone can announce themselves as instructors, trying to prove their legitilatily (is that even a word?). But to invent whole new moves they translated using google translate, that's a whole new level of stupidity. And it's thanks to people who actually believe this bs that they succeed. Hello?!??!??!?!?!


----------



## Razznik

Lisa, to be honest, you only see what you want to see. You _want_ to believe that you are improving yourself and that _your_ advice is better then that from the mods on this platform.


----------



## Tez3

Dark Sovereign 193 said:


> Anyone can announce themselves as instructors, trying to prove their legitilatily (is that even a word?). But to invent whole new moves they translated using google translate, that's a whole new level of stupidity. And it's thanks to people who actually believe this bs that they succeed. Hello?!??!??!?!?!




'Legitimacy '


----------



## Razznik

XD yes I meant that


----------



## Tez3

Dark Sovereign 193 said:


> XD yes I meant that



Your English is good, sometimes though the language likes to trip up people who don't have it as their first language.


----------



## Dirty Dog

Tez3 said:


> Your English is good, sometimes though the language likes to trip up people who don't have it as their first language.



From my own experiences, there are an awful lot for whom English IS a first language, but still find it impossible to compose a coherent sentence.


----------



## Razznik

Tez3 said:


> Your English is good, sometimes though the language likes to trip up people who don't have it as their first language.


XD yes my main language is German sooooo.


Dirty Dog said:


> From my own experiences, there are an awful lot for whom English IS a first language, but still find it impossible to compose a coherent sentence.


Yes I definitely agree XD


----------



## Tez3

Dark Sovereign 193 said:


> XD yes my main language is German sooooo.
> 
> Yes I definitely agree XD




I lived in Germany for three years, near Kleve, but actually spent most time in the Netherlands which was only a couple of Kms away as my mother's family were Dutch. I used to watch German and Dutch children's programmes which taught me very basic language skills.


----------



## Razznik

I live in Hesse, soooo where u lived is a good 3 and a half hours away


----------



## Tez3

Dark Sovereign 193 said:


> I live in Hesse, soooo where u lived is a good 3 and a half hours away



The RAF camp where we were is now the regional airport


----------



## isshinryuronin

Steve said:


> It's great that in the modern era, using technology, people can learn to effectively defend themselves through videos and YouTube. It's always been easy to learn self defense just by training earnestly. We have a guy on here who is a real self defense expert. He's overcome his lack of experience through dedicated training and reading a lot of books on Samurai. It's amazing what you can do. He teaches other people self defense now



While one can gain some physical skills from watching, reading and self training, the physical (and  teaching) skills, will be limited.

There may be some benefit as a confidence and mind set builder, as this can play a part in self defense and partially compensate for poor technical expertise.  Without these, even a technically proficient practitioner will not be able to effectively put the physical skills into action if his spirit is weak.


----------



## Lisa lyons

I had a dream about Bruce Lee last night.


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## Lisa lyons

maybe as i watched this film before bed... i felt the chi


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## mrt2

Lisa lyons said:


> maybe as i watched this film before bed... i felt the chi


Martial arts fantasy.  I am more a fan of Karate Kid.


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## Hanshi

Watching, wishing and hoping will not do anything for you.  Only hard work and pushing one's self translates into progress.


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