# Need advice on what's best for me for self-defense



## kehcorpz (May 2, 2016)

I'm male 29 and want to learn self-defense due to certain events which are taking place in europe.

But I don't know what would be best for me. 

First of all, are there systems which are clearly better than others or at least more useful for beginners?
I want to do something which gives you results as fast as possible.
But I don't want something too brutal like krav maga where you simply kick,punch,hammer at the attacker
until he gives up. I see no real system in this it seems like random defense moves.

I'd rather learn a system of self defense which offers more than a few drills for different life event situations.
Like for example if somebody chokes you from behind then you do ABC. If somebody grabs you by the balls then
you do DEF and so on.
Cause if you only have solutions for scenarios you trained then what do you do if you're in a scenario which you did not train!?
These are some of the things I thought about.

What I also ask myself is which defense system is most complete so that it could deal with attackers which use
other defense systems? Are there systems where you can clearly say that they offer the best solutions for being attacked by other fighters like boxers,wrestlers,kickboxers,karateka...?

I watched some videos about Silat and Wing Chun and found them interesting. It's cool how they use their arms to counter attacks and to block. This looks impressive.
I also heard that wing chun is so good because it uses the optimal fighting distance which is close to the enemy while other arts like boxing don't get so close. I dont know if this is true or not.

some background infos:
I'm not flexible and can't do any high kicks is this an issue? If yes I could try to do stretching but I dont know how to do this without pain.
I am also not physically strong. I'm pretty skinny. Being skinny means you cannot hit as hard as others who ate stronger this sucks.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 3, 2016)

*What is near you? Whatever advice you are given won't matter if there is not somewhere nearby that teaches it, at a time you can go, and a price you can afford. *
With regards to krav maga, it is absolutely a self-defense system, and if you learn it from a good instructor then it is very effective. 
With what arts look impressive on youtube, it doesn't mean much. You can make any art look impressive, or make any art look ridiculous, if you know how. 
This may be a controversial statement, but IMO being skinny/not overly strong doesn't matter self-defense wise. If you know how to strike the right areas and/or perform throws/takedowns then you're good to go, even if you are skinny. 
You do need some muscle, but if you're willing to dedicate yourself to a martial art you should be willing to dedicate yourself to some basic physical training as well.


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## MAfreak (May 3, 2016)

from what you told, mma would be good for you. but thats a sport. most of it can be used in self-defense too, but specific techniques you would find in krav maga, which you don't want to do.
everything else is more art than self-defense, so you learn very slow, must do very beautiful kicks, very unrealistic upper body work etc to come further. when you're ok with this, you could try ju jutsu (not bjj) or hapkido. both are very well rounded and not just for grappling OR striking.

btw what you heard of wing chun and boxing is ********. boxing comes very close, ask mike tyson. and wing chun doesn't know about how to fight, for example, after being taken down.


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## Tez3 (May 3, 2016)

Your profile says you are 17.

What 'certain events' do you believe are happening in 'Europe' that you need to defend yourself from? if you believe you are likely to be targeted there are specific groups that can help, PM if you prefer not to say in public ( although this is a members only place it can be seen by others) and I can help you find people who can help.


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## Bill Mattocks (May 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm male 29 and want to learn self-defense due to certain events which are taking place in europe.
> 
> But I don't know what would be best for me.
> 
> ...



First, welcome to MT.

Second, read this (I wrote it, shameless plug):

Which Art Is Best For You?

Third, everybody says their system is best for every thing.  You are not going to get the kind of answers you hope to get - not possible.  What you will get is a lot of opinions, from people who are devoted to their own systems and believe in them (I would do the same for my system).

Read the post I made in the link.  It should help you.


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## mograph (May 3, 2016)

The system may be less important than the training environment. I think you need to train at a place where you would spar _a lot_, and where you would learn to respond to aggressive, _unpredictable_ attacks from your fellow students.


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## lklawson (May 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm male 29 and want to learn self-defense due to certain events which are taking place in europe.
> 
> But I don't know what would be best for me.


Where do you live?  Do you have any infirmities or physical limitations?  What martial arts are near you?  Have you considered the possibility of more than one martial art or pairing multiple capacities?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## pgsmith (May 3, 2016)

Just out of curiosity, why does your profile say you are 17, but your post says you are 29?
  The answers to your questions can be quite different depending upon whether you are 17 or 29.


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## marques (May 3, 2016)

Look, train self-defence if you like it. But the really important is the prevention, avoidance, de-escalation, bla bla...
You're more likely to be injured training self-defence than by bad guys.  If not, something is wrong with your environment or with you. Or your training is very safe...


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## JowGaWolf (May 3, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> First of all, are there systems which are clearly better than others or at least more useful for beginners?


Nope. Everything is difficult in the beginning unless you have trained in something similar.



kehcorpz said:


> I want to do something which gives you results as fast as possible.


Learning how to fight or use self-defense takes time.  There's no fast road.  The speed at which you develop depends on your teacher and your abilities.



kehcorpz said:


> But I don't want something too brutal like krav maga where you simply kick,punch,hammer at the attacker
> until he gives up. I see no real system in this it seems like random defense moves.


 self-defense can be brutal. There is really no half-way approaches to self-defense a person is either giving it their all or not. I'm either being 100% aware of my surroundings or I'm not being aware of my surroundings. It's like a switch that comes on and off when certain things trigger the behavior.  Fighting is random. Self-defense is random. Either can change based on environment or people who are standing next to you.



kehcorpz said:


> Like for example if somebody chokes you from behind then you do ABC. If somebody grabs you by the balls then
> you do DEF and so on.


If you let someone get your back so that they have the option of choking you from behind then you failed in awareness.  What you do after the choke depends on what type of choke you are in.   If somebody crushes your junk then you are probably just going to do whatever the pain tells you to do.  This goes back to fighting being random and self-defense being random. The best that you can do is train for common events and situation and hope that get one.



kehcorpz said:


> optimal fighting distance


 optimal fighting distance varies. Sometimes it's far, sometimes it close, and in a fight it's going to vary.



kehcorpz said:


> Being skinny means you cannot hit as hard as others who ate stronger this sucks.


Not true. Not sure why some people think that skinny people can't hit hard.   The problem with skinny people is that they keep thinking that being skinny means that they can't do something and as a result, they never train to make it possible.


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## JowGaWolf (May 3, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Third, everybody says their system is best for every thing.


Yes my system is the best and can beat every system out there. lol.. Just thought I'll prove your point. In reality it's good that many of us feel this way being that many of us probably wouldn't train in a self-defense system if they thought that it wouldn't get them out of a scuffle or two.  People who don't train a martial art for self-defense purpose are usually upfront about it. 

There's only 2 people we know of that trains in a self-defense system and thinks that the system is totally useless, yet they still train in it lol.


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## Ironbear24 (May 3, 2016)

The whole if this happens you do ABC or that happens you DEF, is not a great mindset, what happens when ABC doesn't work for you? You need to know how different techniques incase something doesn't work for whatever reason. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, now as far as what is best? I really can't give you a one size fits all answer, every fighting style is pretty good at self defense. 

Keep in mind the average moron willing to attack random people will more than likely not be an incredible fighter themselves.


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## drop bear (May 3, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The whole if this happens you do ABC or that happens you DEF, is not a great mindset, what happens when ABC doesn't work for you? You need to know how different techniques incase something doesn't work for whatever reason. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, now as far as what is best? I really can't give you a one size fits all answer, every fighting style is pretty good at self defense.
> 
> Keep in mind the average moron willing to attack random people will more than likely not be an incredible fighter themselves.



Yes and no.there are stages to learning. One of them is if he chokes me I do ABC.
Stages of Learning Sport Skills


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## mograph (May 3, 2016)

drop bear said:


> Yes and no.there are stages to learning. One of them is if he chokes me I do ABC.
> Stages of Learning Sport Skills


Psychology types would agree with the article: over time, the learning progresses from explicit ("I do this, then I do that") to implicit (just reacting without thinking). Those who have not progressed to the implicit stage would have trouble defending themselves in unpredictable situations.


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## mograph (May 4, 2016)

mograph said:


> Psychology types would agree with the article: over time, the learning progresses from explicit ("I do this, then I do that") to implicit (just reacting without thinking).


Clarification: I was writing about _skill_ learning, also called _procedural_ learning. Y'know, like sports 'n' martial arts 'n' stuff.


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## Dylan9d (May 4, 2016)

I think the whole ABC, Krav Maga-like training can teach you certain things but it won't teach you to improvise. If you get taught a certain set of principles that you can apply in diverse situations rather than techniques it makes you more flexible.

I do think, at least this is my experience, that Silat can teach you this, so principles rather than a set amount of techniques. You do need to find the right teacher for such a mindset and a teacher that is only teaching beladiri (selfdefense).


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## McBryde Mats (May 4, 2016)

I gather the immigration situation over in Europe has led you to take up martial arts as self defense, thats great, but remember that its not like you will step inside a dojo and become a ninja overnight, learning to train the CNS to respond instinctively to threats takes a lot of time and practice, in some cases years depending on the student. If you are really concerned, think about non-lethal deterrents such as pepper spray (although i think someone in denmark or sweden got locked up for using it) ...good luck out there, stay safe


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## Tez3 (May 4, 2016)

McBryde Mats said:


> I gather the immigration situation over in Europe has led you to take up martial arts as self defense, thats great, but remember that its not like you will step inside a dojo and become a ninja overnight, learning to train the CNS to respond instinctively to threats takes a lot of time and practice, in some cases years depending on the student. If you are really concerned, think about non-lethal deterrents such as pepper spray (although i think someone in denmark or sweden got locked up for using it) ...good luck out there, stay safe



'Immigrant situation'? Please do not believe all you read, there is not an 'immigrant situation' as has been reported by several politically motivated media outlets. There had been violence but these are directed *at* immigrants and specifically Muslims. This is why I asked the OP why he wanted to learn because Muslims are at risk at the moment and why he may have needed help. If however he was a member of one of the neo Nazi groups who are initiating the violence then I certainly would not be helping him.
People in Europe do not need to be taking up self defence and martial arts because of immigrants, to be honest that is scare mongering of the worst kind. There are terrorist threats of course but there has been for a very long time, it's not new. Look it up, groups here have been targeting European cities for decades, martial arts isn't going to help against these groups.


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## JowGaWolf (May 4, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The whole if this happens you do ABC or that happens you DEF, is not a great mindset, what happens when ABC doesn't work for you? You need to know how different techniques incase something doesn't work for whatever reason. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, now as far as what is best? I really can't give you a one size fits all answer, every fighting style is pretty good at self defense.
> 
> Keep in mind the average moron willing to attack random people will more than likely not be an incredible fighter themselves.


Exactly.  That's why it's good to drill our kata and techniques over and over until it comes muscle memory.  That way we don't have to try to waste time trying to figure out what we should do when something random happens.  People who train to look of ABC attack so they can do DEF response will be lost when the attack is something other than ABC.


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## JowGaWolf (May 4, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> 'Immigrant situation'? Please do not believe all you read, there is not an 'immigrant situation' as has been reported by several politically motivated media outlets. There had been violence but these are directed *at* immigrants and specifically Muslims. This is why I asked the OP why he wanted to learn because Muslims are at risk at the moment and why he may have needed help. If however he was a member of one of the neo Nazi groups who are initiating the violence then I certainly would not be helping him.
> People in Europe do not need to be taking up self defence and martial arts because of immigrants, to be honest that is scare mongering of the worst kind. There are terrorist threats of course but there has been for a very long time, it's not new. Look it up, groups here have been targeting European cities for decades, martial arts isn't going to help against these groups.


My guess that Europe is like the U.S when it comes to immigrants and the topic of crime.  I'm guaranteed to see everyday in the news where an American citizen has harmed another American citizen.  If I went to a jail or prison, I'll see more Americans in it than immigrants.  I tell people all time that I'm more concerned about crazy Americans and violent Americans than I am about someone form a different country hurting me.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 4, 2016)

Dylan9d said:


> I think the whole ABC, Krav Maga-like training can teach you certain things but it won't teach you to improvise. If you get taught a certain set of principles that you can apply in diverse situations rather than techniques it makes you more flexible.
> 
> I do think, at least this is my experience, that Silat can teach you this, so principles rather than a set amount of techniques. You do need to find the right teacher for such a mindset and a teacher that is only teaching beladiri (selfdefense).


This depends on the style: there are two ways too teach that I find equally valid. The first teaches general principles, and then makes it your job to create techniques based on this. The second teaches specific techniques, and through learning these techniques you are expected to eventually understand the principles behind them. One way results in quicker self-defense learning, while the other results in understanding the art as a whole more quickly. Then there's everything between those two options, which is where most teachers will fall on this spectrum.


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## Pittsburgh Arnis (May 4, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm male 29 and want to learn self-defense due to certain events which are taking place in europe.
> 
> But I don't know what would be best for me.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a number of options.  Sometimes having a lot of choices is good, but often this can delay making a decision.  Some people call this "paralysis by analysis." Just make the best decision you can.  I recommend finding someone who likes to teach but doesnt have a big ego.  Also, take a look at how the other students get along.  best wishes!


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## Langenschwert (May 8, 2016)

Learn to box. Quick results, on average. More important than the system is the training itself. Boxers learn how to hit and not get hit. That's pretty handy. After that, add some Judo or wrestling or BJJ. That should suffice for most purposes of being able to "handle one's self". That doesn't cover knife defence, and well, self-defence in general, which is a separate thing altogether.


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## Ironbear24 (May 8, 2016)

Boxing doesn't come that fast. Everything takes time. To be honest though take martial arts because you want to and have a passion for them, you aren't going to have to learn to be a legendary fighter or something to defend yourself. People have defended themselves with laughable skill and are still alive. Pepper spray and Mace are also pretty good for that.


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## crazydiamond (May 15, 2016)

Krav Maga (or similar) if there is a good school near you. You seem to be talking self defense situations  - rather than a common brawl or street fight -  and you want to learn quickly simple moves to get away with life and limb intact.


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## BJJCop (May 16, 2016)

All martial arts are good for what they are designed for. Judo was designed for throwing skills for example, boxing was designed for hitting someone with your hands efficiently. Or things like Krav Maga designed for taking someone's weapon away - which is probably the art a lot of people have the most misconceptions about. As it's primary purpose was actually for disarmament and renowned on that note for counter attacking, historically. Krav is particularly bad for moving away from its actual real use and everyone screams ******** when its seen going way out of its practicality. That, along with post-war decline gives it the bad name you sometimes hear about. Always practice what you feel that you need to learn to do, not because its 'good' they're all good for what they're meant for! What I'm getting at is, self defense isn't black and white, its really one of grey if you think about it. Attacks or fights in the street very much depend. Don't pick fights, but if you get in one you better make damn sure you win. Therefore its quite realistic to actually train in everything; striking, grappling, and maybe self defense to supplement them if you choose, and that way you are fairly entirely rounded and have a skillset to prepare that much more of the grey area there is, might end up on the floor, might not. If you really are that serious about self protection that is.


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## lklawson (May 16, 2016)

BJJCop said:


> All martial arts are good for what they are designed for. Judo was designed for throwing skills for example,


No offense, but only if you've never read what Kano wrote about the purpose of Judo. ...or about 2/3 of Judo's curriculum.



> boxing was designed for hitting someone with your hands efficiently.


Again, no offense, but only if you're unfamiliar with the history of Boxing.



> Or things like Krav Maga designed for taking someone's weapon away - which is probably the art a lot of people have the most misconceptions about. As it's primary purpose was actually for disarmament and renowned on that note for counter attacking, historically. Krav is particularly bad for moving away from its actual real use and everyone screams ******** when its seen going way out of its practicality. That, along with post-war decline gives it the bad name you sometimes hear about.


Again, this isn't my understanding of the history of Krav, though to be honest, my interest was much more focused on early (30's-ish) Kapap.  Yerkow lineage, &tc.



> Always practice what you feel that you need to learn to do, not because its 'good' they're all good for what they're meant for!


That's the tricky part, isn't it?  Divining what "it's meant for."  It's apparent that we have different ideas of what the intended purpose was.  It will be much harder for a newbie to figure that out.



> What I'm getting at is, self defense isn't black and white, its really one of grey if you think about it.


It's not?  How could it not be black and white?



> Attacks or fights in the street very much depend.


Depend on what?



> Don't pick fights,


Well, yeah.  We agree on that.



> but if you get in one you better make damn sure you win.


Define "win."



> Therefore its quite realistic to actually train in everything; striking, grappling, and maybe self defense to supplement them if you choose, and that way you are fairly entirely rounded and have a skillset


Yeah.  We agree on this.



> to prepare that much more of the grey area there is, might end up on the floor, might not. If you really are that serious about self protection that is.


What gray area?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Langenschwert (May 16, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Boxing doesn't come that fast. Everything takes time. To be honest though take martial arts because you want to and have a passion for them, you aren't going to have to learn to be a legendary fighter or something to defend yourself. People have defended themselves with laughable skill and are still alive. Pepper spray and Mace are also pretty good for that.



True, but if time is of the essence, boxing has one of best ratios of "results to time put in" out there. While Judo is certainly potent, it takes about two years on average to be able to throw someone with any regularity. It takes less time to put together a reasonable boxing combo and land a punch with some regularity. At least that was my experience.

I do my unarmed MA for fun mostly. The chances of me having to use them for SD is laughably small. I just enjoy the science of BKB and Judo, just as I enjoy the science of swordsmanship. Just so happens it's a pretty good combo for SD too.


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## JD123 (May 22, 2016)

I am not going to pretend I exactly know what I am talking about since I too am getting started in my MA journey. So this is based on research. Unfortunately in a self defense situation you have to be hard on your attacker. You don't know what they are planning on doing and they won't hold back.

From what I understand that is what Krav Maga specializes in. Fast ways to neutralize your attacker as well as if he say pulls out a gun or grabs you from behind you do this. Also from what I understand Krav Maga is easier to grasp. I can understand you don't want to do groin shots seeing how many of us are brought up its dishonorable and cowardly to hit below the belt. However if someone chooses to attack you for know reason honor goes out the window and you gotta do what you have to do.

I asked a similar questions the OP. You can spend months researching what style will be best for self defense. What's really important is finding a good school.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Jun 15, 2016)

I would recommend American Kenpo Karate its aweome and you will liked it to American kenpo was founded by GM Ed Parker. I will also tell ya that American kenpo karate is an updated system based on modern day street fighting applies logic and practicality its also a thinking art


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## MAfreak (Jun 15, 2016)

lklawson said:


> No offense, but only if you've never read what Kano wrote about the purpose of Judo. ...or about 2/3 of Judo's curriculum.
> 
> Again, no offense, but only if you're unfamiliar with the history of Boxing.
> 
> Again, this isn't my understanding of the history of Krav



in case of judo and boxing, most people talk about the purpose it has NOW, then he might be right. ground fighting in judo was limited more and more over time and (i saw around here) the grappling techniques of boxing were exluded also (didn't even know before that there were any). so these styles would "evolve" to specialized sports like we know it today. for olympic gold medals or whatever championships...
in case of krav maga, indeed, this is not just for taking weapons away. what gave him that idea?
its for surviving in general.

when someone isn't sure but wants to train something helpful, i'd say start with kickboxing. its the basics of fighting, no belts, no asian terminology, no forms, no "complicated" grappling... and its techniques are like or included in muay thai, karate, taekwondo, ju jutsu, hapkido, krav maga etc., so one can switch to an other style everytime later.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 15, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> in case of judo and boxing, most people talk about the purpose it has NOW, then he might be right. ground fighting in judo was limited more and more over time and (i saw around here) the grappling techniques of boxing were exluded also (didn't even know before that there were any). so these styles would "evolve" to specialized sports like we know it today. for olympic gold medals or whatever championships...
> in case of krav maga, indeed, this is not just for taking weapons away. what gave him that idea?
> its for surviving in general.
> 
> when someone isn't sure but wants to train something helpful, i'd say start with kickboxing. its the basics of fighting, no belts, no asian terminology, no forms, no "complicated" grappling... *and its techniques are like or included in muay thai, karate, taekwondo, ju jutsu, hapkido, krav maga etc., so one can switch to an other style everytime later*.



That's a broad brush you are painting with there.  Have you trained in those arts?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 15, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I want to do something which gives you results as fast as possible.
> But I don't want something too brutal like krav maga where you simply kick,punch,hammer at the attacker
> until he gives up.


If you can get a training partner and make this move work in the next 6 months, your time will be worth spending.

If your opponent attacks you, he has to step in. your chance to get his leading leg will always be there.


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## MAfreak (Jun 16, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> That's a broad brush you are painting with there.  Have you trained in those arts?


oh sorry, i thought punching and kicking is part of these arts. and btw yes, i did.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 16, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> oh sorry, i thought punching and kicking is part of these arts. and btw yes, i did.



So you have trained in seven martial arts?  Or more if one counts etc.  That is either very impressive for one under 30 years old, or perhaps somewhat boastful implying skill knowledge you could not attain without a lot of time to train in all those separate arts.  If you have been able to do nothing but train all your life, and have acquired advanced skills/rankings in all those martial arts, I salute you.  But I find it doubtful and I note you did not say what amount of training/ranking you had in those other arts.  Could you share?

I can't really tell you about the other arts, but I have studied TKD briefly, and attained belt ranking in Hapkido.  TKD was primarily blocking, punching, and kicking, with at my low level, some very rudimentary grappling during 1 and 3 step sparring.  The Hapkido I learned indeed included punching and kicking, along with grappling, but all was surprisingly defensive in nature.

My lack of knowledge  of other arts extends to kickboxing as well.  But your wording (I can accept that perhaps English isn't your primary language) implies that somehow all those MA borrowed techniques from kickboxing.  I think kickboxing may be a little young to make such a claim.  I know based on the wiki article on kickboxing, Hapkido, TKD and other arts predate kickboxing.  And Hapkido readily admits its age and lineage back to Japan.

But anyway, I am of the opinion that most all martial arts can be effective if learned correctly and skills are constantly improved on.  I don't know that there is a one best or most effective MA.  All have advantages and disadvantages, but all can be effective depending on the knowledge and skill of the individual practitioner, at least imho.


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## MAfreak (Jun 16, 2016)

i visited seminars, cross-trainings and other events in more styles than i can count, but my main experience was karate, kickboxing and mma. i never said, i'm a master in all of these arts and this also wasn't your question.
you don't really doubt, that the stance, punching and kicking is incredibly different from system to system, do you?
since this was my point. kickboxing teaches directly how to strike and block, and from there, one could switch to a system which extends this with open hand strikes, grappling and maybe weapons to a complete self defense system. but one already did a great and important beginning even when not sure, which system to join finally.


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## Tez3 (Jun 16, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> i visited seminars, cross-trainings and other events in more styles than i can count, but my main experience was karate, kickboxing and mma. i never said, i'm a master in all of these arts and this also wasn't your question.
> you don't really doubt, that the stance, punching and kicking is incredibly different from system to system, do you?
> since this was my point. kickboxing teaches directly how to strike and block, and from there, *one could switch to a system which extends this with open hand strikes, grappling and maybe weapons to a complete self defense system*. but one already did a great and important beginning even when not sure, which system to join finally.




Where do you think kick boxing came from?


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## lklawson (Jun 16, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> So you have trained in seven martial arts?  Or more if one counts etc.


His statement was "[kickboxing] techniques are like or included in muay thai, karate, taekwondo, ju jutsu, hapkido, krav maga..."  What exactly is your problem with that statement?

[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in muay thai?
[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in karate?
[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in taekwondo?
[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in ju jutsu?
[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in hapkido?
[kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in krav maga?

While a lot of this is pretty broad, particularly ju jutsu, I don't really see much to find fault with.  Most modern kickboxing has a pretty basic set of kicks and punches.  In general most martial arts, such as the ones he listed, do in fact include basic kicks and punches, often identical or similar to, that found in most kickboxing.  So what's the problem?  Do all of those arts, and others, include more than just a simple and abbreviated set of basic kicks and punches?  Pretty much, yeah.  But they do include those basic ones.

So what's the problem?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Jun 16, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Where do you think kick boxing came from?


In the U.S., it was mostly evolved from the "full contact" sport karate circuit which sometimes included Korean arts such as TKD and TSD.  Mixed it with modern U.S. Boxing.  So mostly "Karate/Taekwondo + Boxing" in the U.S.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 16, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> That's a broad brush you are painting with there.  *Have you trained in those arts*?





MAfreak said:


> i visited seminars, cross-trainings and other events in more styles than i can count, but my main experience was karate, kickboxing and mma. i never said, i'm a master in all of these arts and this also wasn't your question.



That was my question, and you have answered it.  Thanks.



oftheherd1 said:


> you don't really doubt, that the stance, punching and kicking is incredibly different from system to system, do you?
> since this was my point. kickboxing teaches directly how to strike and block, and from there, one could switch to a system which extends this with open hand strikes, grappling and maybe weapons to a complete self defense system. but one already did a great and important beginning even when not sure, which system to join finally.



Not only may there be differences from system to system, there can also be differences within systems.  I don't understand how " ... kickboxing teaches directly how to strike and block, and from there, one could switch to a system which extends this ... "  The TKD I studied certainly taught how to strike and block, and kick too for that matter. In the Hapkido I studied, we pretty much learned to strike with all parts of our body; head, shoulders, elbows, hands, knees, and feet, and weapons.  I have no doubt had I progressed further in my TKD training, it would have been the same there with the possible exception of weapons.  So I don't see how kickboxing has an advantage over, or becomes any kind of springboard to, other MA.  Perhaps you could enlighten me on that.  As I said, I really don't know anything about kickboxing as an MA.


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## MAfreak (Jun 16, 2016)

the op asked for self-defense.
any martial art or also combat sport will be a good start for that. what i meant with kickboxing is, that they do the same basics than other striking arts (not to mention it originated from them) and is anyway very effective (i even say much more effective then the fighting style of wtf or wkf).
so if one's not sure if he want to learn japanese and korean terms and do show stuff for belt tests and the like, but don't want to wait with starting training, kickboxing would be a good beginning. he already trains basics (in a more effective way than with forms) and can besides search for a specific self defense system were he can use his now learned basics very well (also when getting attacked in the meantime).


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## Tez3 (Jun 16, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> the op asked for self-defense.
> any martial art or also combat sport will be a good start for that. what i meant with kickboxing is, that they do the same basics than other striking arts (not to mention it originated from them) and is anyway very effective (i even say much more effective then the fighting style of wtf or wkf).
> so if one's not sure if he want to learn japanese and korean terms and do show stuff for belt tests and the like, but don't want to wait with starting training, kickboxing would be a good beginning. *he already trains basics (in a more effective way than with forms) and can besides search for a specific self defense system were he can use his now learned basics very well (also when getting attacked in the meantime*).




The OP has yet to start any martial art so has not trained basics in anything.


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## oftheherd1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lklawson said:


> His statement was "[kickboxing] techniques are like or included in muay thai, karate, taekwondo, ju jutsu, hapkido, krav maga..."  What exactly is your problem with that statement?
> 
> [kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in muay thai?
> [kickboxing] techniques are *like* or *included* in karate?
> ...



What exactly is my problem?  People who keep taunting me with the question as to what my problem is I guess.   

Seriously, I see how you understood MAFREAK's statement.  I understood him to be saying the techniques of kickboxing had been incorporated into all the other MA he mentioned, from kickboxing.  If you read it, I think you can see how I might have understood it that way.  MAFREAK has now stated he meant it like you understood.  Good on you, you were better than me.


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## lklawson (Jun 20, 2016)

oftheherd1 said:


> What exactly is my problem?  People who keep taunting me with the question as to what my problem is I guess.
> 
> Seriously, I see how you understood MAFREAK's statement.  I understood him to be saying the techniques of kickboxing had been incorporated into all the other MA he mentioned, from kickboxing.  If you read it, I think you can see how I might have understood it that way.  MAFREAK has now stated he meant it like you understood.  Good on you, you were better than me.


Oh.  OK then.  Nevermind.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Charlemagne (Jun 20, 2016)

kehcorpz said:


> I'm male 29 and want to learn self-defense due to certain events which are taking place in europe.
> 
> But I don't know what would be best for me.
> 
> ...



You were asked this once and have never responded.  Where are you located?  This is, for obvious reasons, going to determine your options.  

As others have noticed, there is not real shortcut to self-defense, but there are systems which have basics that are more readily transferable than others in shorter time period, particularly against the average street tough or bar patron with little to no formal training.  Other systems might have just as high of a ceiling but perhaps their fundamentals, which are learned early on, don't transfer as well.  

Don't worry about scenarios now, worry about acquiring solid fundamentals in striking, ground fighting, and weapons use/defense.  I'll probably be accused of promoting what I study, but the truth is that I tried several things before I ended up where I am at now, made some pretty deliberate choices in regards to what I have tried, and left.  You may not be able to do all three of those things at once, but if you can get yourself into one of them to start with, you will be on the road.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

To be honest at this point I think if the OP took up Taebo or Boxercise it would be something to applaud.


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