# thinking of kenpo now



## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

let me start it off as im new. i live in the riverside area (near UCR) in california. 

ive recently took an interest in martial arts at this point in my life. i'm 19, 5'6, 150lbs and play paintball on a national level. 

i want a new hobby that i can use to get in shape. i tried working out but i am not very goal oriented as opposed to achievement driven. i figure the belt rankings are just the thing. also, i have checked out the schools around my area:

allens academy kenpo, jujitsu, and tai chi - not sure on pricing but if someone knows about this place let me know. 
ata taekwondo: $65 for the first 6 weeks
shotokan: from my college
.. there is also brazillian jujitsu and kickboxing in the area, but i never took a fancy to wrestling/grappling....the kickboxing in this area is very female oriented.


anyway, i want to learn more about each of these. if you have any information, even close to realitive to this, post! information about average time between belts, belt system, techniques (linier to circular to whatever), belt tests, what to look for, what not to look for, ect ect. 

i also have a buddy that now teaches/helps classes as a shorin-ryu black belt. he suggested taekwondo in the US is pretty watered down and not very effective. i'm not really looking for effectiveness so dont count it out. 

mainly, i want to know what kenpo is as far as style. from what i read, its more of a chinese style boxing (??) or something. searching doesnst really help me since i have no clue what kenpo is about or what to look for. just make it easier on me and tell me what i need. 


also if you know of any schools in my area write them down for me.

thanks and cheers,
Jon


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## Drifter (Apr 27, 2005)

Kenpo is self defense oriented in general. If you want a workout, you will probably be able to get one. Look around and try them out for yourself. If it's something you just want to do, rather than get the self defense skill, it doesn't really matter what you do.


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

im a newb. what do you mean by self defense oriented....are you talking about eye gouging? groin stomping? gimme back my purse?


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## dubljay (Apr 27, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> im a newb. what do you mean by self defense oriented....are you talking about eye gouging? groin stomping? gimme back my purse?


 You could say that.  Generalizing kenpo is slightly difficult given the many branches there are.  but basically they are based on the idea of self defense orientation.  There are some eye gouges, groin stomping that sort of thing, but the focus is striking the opponen(s) and getting out of there.  TKD in the states (generally speaking of course) is sport oriented, or more specifically geared towards tounaments and friendly competition.  Kenpo is not, it is more for street/self defense application(in general terms ofcourse).

 If you could find out what styles of kenpo are near by that would help define what to expect more.

 -Josh


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> If you could find out what styles of kenpo are near by that would help define what to expect more.
> 
> -Josh


 
ill call in and find out. thanks!


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## mj_lover (Apr 27, 2005)

from my personal experiance, tkd will give you a MUCH better workout then kenpo, although kenpo is much more practical. I can't tell you much about bjj or kickboxing though.


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

ok so ive had no prior martial arts training...hardly any knowledge of martial arts either... but i was walking around in my garage today and saw the red dangling thing from the garage door. in my head i thought i could so kick that. i did... heres a vid. keep in mind this thing is about as high as my head



(no martial arts training....only lots of jet li movies.)

http://www.shift-lock.net/jon/jonkick.AVI **right click and save as**

so what art would i work my way fastest through? .. im not really fit but would like to get there as well as get rid of fat. i seriously have very little muscle and cant run half a mile without stopping to walk... but i think i could work my way up.


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## Blindside (Apr 27, 2005)

OK, biased recommendations coming up here.

1. Avoid the ATA taekwondo place like the plague, I've never seen one that wasn't crap.  
2. Shotokan and kenpo completely depend on the instructor, being a kenpoist I would recommend it over most karate styles, but I'd take good karate over bad kenpo.
3. If a school is a Brazillian jiujitsu/kickboxing place, you might find the kickboxing alot more "real" than you seem to think.  And if you go to this school you WILL get in shape or get your assed kick regularly.  If you like competition, this may be the school for you.
4.  If all you are worried about is a hobby to get into shape, and you don't really care how effective/useful it is, have you ever considered racquetball?

Lamont


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

Blindside said:
			
		

> OK, biased recommendations coming up here.
> 
> 4. If all you are worried about is a hobby to get into shape, and you don't really care how effective/useful it is, have you ever considered racquetball?
> 
> Lamont


i play paintball on a national level (...well used to..but getting back in to it)


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## Blindside (Apr 27, 2005)

I understand that, what I don't understand is your goals.  They seem to be:



> i want a new hobby that i can use to get in shape.


Cool, there are certainly worse reasons to get in martial arts.



> i tried working out but i am not very goal oriented as opposed to achievement driven. i figure the belt rankings are just the thing.


Chasing rank is a very bad way to study martial arts, and I speak from experience.



> i'm not really looking for effectiveness so dont count it out.


So you want to kick and punch (not grapple, you mentioned that) and don't really care if it would actually work.

Okey doke, it really doesn't matter then, in fact given these requirements you should look for the taebo/aerobic kickboxing classes.  Those will get you in shape and I suspect the scenery will be alot better there.  Maybe you can find one that awards belts.

Lamont


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

alrightg lemme clarify..

effectiveness is good....what i dont want is a class partially focused on groin punching, eye gouging ect. what i WANT is to be effective as far as striking goes. maybe work on boxing a bit...maybe work on kicking ect. 

i wont be taking martial arts for the sole purpose of chasing belts, although i would like to progress quickly as i will be practicing 4+ sessions a week.


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## evenflow1121 (Apr 27, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> alrightg lemme clarify..
> 
> what i WANT is to be effective as far as striking goes. maybe work on boxing a bit...maybe work on kicking ect.
> 
> Then go with kickboxing if this is all you want


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## evenflow1121 (Apr 27, 2005)

If you are interested in Kenpo, I learned the 24 technique system and it took about 4.5yrs to get shodan.  But there are different styles of kenpo, there is the Parker System, there is tracy, there is shorinji, Kara-ho and a bunch of others.

I learned Ed Parkers and the belt system was white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown 3d, brown 2d, brown 1st, black belt.  With 24 techniques in between each rank, except brown which has 72 in total because of the degrees and 10 at yellow belt.


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## crysis (Apr 27, 2005)

it was suggested to me by a few people on MT so i wanted to learn a bit more about it.. kickboxing doesnt really appeal to me. as you said in another of my posts, if i dont stick with it its worthless.. i want something that i could see myself enjoying for years/a life time. raquetball, kickboxing (although very ..'scenic' wont do me anygood due to the fact that i'm already with the girl i want to marry) dont appeal to me. theres a BJJ class that offers muy thai as part of the curriculum i think ...but was never in to wrestling as said before.... honestly im putting my eggs towards either:

kenpo
shotokan
or taekwondo

...thing is the only classes of tkd i knwo of are ATA or a WTF form of tkd. from what i hear wtf is the more sport oriented one.


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## Blindside (Apr 28, 2005)

> what i dont want is a class partially focused on groin punching, eye gouging ect. what i WANT is to be effective as far as striking goes. maybe work on boxing a bit...maybe work on kicking ect.



Hmm, well that excludes most of the Parker lineage kenpo as well as kajukenbo.  

I'd suggest that you take muay thai, but they don't use belts.  Have fun in tae kwon do.

Lamont


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## rmcrobertson (Apr 28, 2005)

Maybe try going to the shotokan at your college first; see if you're even interested in any martial art, and a college or a Y is a very traditional place to start.

As for kenpo, Larry Tatum and Frank Trejo are in Pasadena (American kenpo), Steve Hearring's in, what, Monrovia or something (Chinese kenpo); Bob White's down by the shore in Orange County....and the evil Clyde's in Riverside, but it drives to Mr. Tatum's, as I do. Point is, you should be able to find something.

I'd really start with what's at your own college, since that's going to be cheapest and most accessible--if you're a college student like I was, that's pretty important.

The other posts seemed right to me. Avoid TKD in California unless you have a really good reason to believe that the instructor's something special; kenpo's the best all-around art, but take any good teacher and good school over poor kenpo. I guarantee that there are as many gawdawful BJJ schools in SoCal as there are good ones, and I'd be particularly wary (as a rule; there are exceptions) about, "mixed arts," schools. I'd add that you just MIGHT be able to find somebody extraordinary teaching one of the traditional Chinese arts, like real t'ai chi, in the area--but that'll be tough, because SoCal is the Land of the Phony, and you may not be able to distinguish good and bad. Still, if you happen to find some park in the Riverside area with a buncha old Chinese folks who have a teacher and do t'ai chi....not at ALL a bad choice.

Personally, I first learned in a friend's back yard, then started groups up at Mr. Tatum's about 14 years ago. Black belt? seven years plus, just a dog watching TV the whole way.


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## MJS (Apr 28, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> it was suggested to me by a few people on MT so i wanted to learn a bit more about it.. kickboxing doesnt really appeal to me. as you said in another of my posts, if i dont stick with it its worthless.. i want something that i could see myself enjoying for years/a life time. raquetball, kickboxing (although very ..'scenic' wont do me anygood due to the fact that i'm already with the girl i want to marry) dont appeal to me. theres a BJJ class that offers muy thai as part of the curriculum i think ...but was never in to wrestling as said before.... honestly im putting my eggs towards either:
> 
> kenpo
> shotokan
> ...



Seeing that you narrowed your choice down to these 3, I suggest you take a look at all 3.  Go and watch a class or see if you can take a trial class.  Make sure you ask questions of the students and the instructor at each school.  Once you have taken a look at all 3, then you need to base your choice on what suits you best.  

Mike


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## crysis (Apr 28, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> Seeing that you narrowed your choice down to these 3, I suggest you take a look at all 3. Go and watch a class or see if you can take a trial class. Make sure you ask questions of the students and the instructor at each school. Once you have taken a look at all 3, then you need to base your choice on what suits you best.
> 
> Mike


ive looked at tkd and shotokan. i have yet to find a kenpo class that isnt run down. dont really know what the forms look like. does anyone know of a jeet kun do class in riverside? i was interested in that for awhile but couldnt find a course to go to


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## Pacificshore (Apr 28, 2005)

If I recall correctly in respect to Shotokan, I believe Ray Dalke is out that way.  Was he the Shotokan club you looked into?  From what I heard/was told, Dalke is one of the top Shotokan instructors around in SoCal.


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## crysis (Apr 28, 2005)

no, actually the club at UCR is taught by several instructors but the main master is 7th dan edmond otis

others include 
5th dan kevin warner
5th dan john rellias
and 4th dan Nathan Scarano


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## rmcrobertson (Apr 28, 2005)

All's I can say is that there are probably more really terrible TKD, kenpo, BJJ and jeet kune do schools in Southern California than on the rest of the planet combined. And sorry, but DO NOT take muay thai; if the school's good, you'll bascially be doing an advanced version of kickboxing and you're going to get seriously dinged up--and while I don't know for sure, it's my suspicion that you're going to find it very hard to find a good school in this art. I can vouch for the kenpo schools I mentioned; if you can't do the travel because of school and work, I'd really try the shotokan school at your college. And, as mentioned, I'd just go visit the places you're considering, at this point. 

At this point, just go try it. Look--and more importantly, take a few lessons at your college. What can it hurt? it's difficult to start studying a martial art--I considered it for years first--and unless you just go try, your brain is going to talk you out of everything. 

I'd really say go try the college shotokan.


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## Pacificshore (Apr 28, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> no, actually the club at UCR is taught by several instructors but the main master is 7th dan edmond otis
> 
> others include
> 5th dan kevin warner
> ...


Kevin Warner sounds familiar to me...and if I am correct he is from/was from Dalke's dojo.  Maybe give them a look see.


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## crysis (Apr 28, 2005)

he says hes been teaching 19 years at UCR


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## arnisador (Apr 28, 2005)

Blindside said:
			
		

> I'd suggest that you take muay thai, but they don't use belts.


 They use shorts instead--there's a few shorts-testing stories in the Muay Thai forum.


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## Ronin Moose (Apr 29, 2005)

_


			
				rmcrobertson said:
			
		


			I'd add that you just MIGHT be able to find somebody extraordinary teaching one of the traditional Chinese arts, like real t'ai chi, in the area--but that'll be tough, because SoCal is the Land of the Phony, and you may not be able to distinguish good and bad. Still, if you happen to find some park in the Riverside area with a buncha old Chinese folks who have a teacher and do t'ai chi....not at ALL a bad choice.
		
Click to expand...

_


			
				rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> As he says above, Tai chi might be a good choice.  If you decide to look into that, *Sifu Harvey Kurland* teaches Tai Chi, Qi Gong, Ba Gua and other Chinese arts in the Inland Empire, and he bases his classes out of UCR and the local community centers.  You can sign up for his classes through the Student Center on campus at UCR.  He also has a website (below), athough they don't always keep it updated.
> 
> www.dotaichi.com/
> 
> ...


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## Trejo (Apr 30, 2005)

I think kenpo karate is just the right martial art for you. There are forms and sets and 160 self defense techniques. Kenpo karate uses scientific theories and principles and applies them to fighting. You'll love learning brand new techniques and learning the most sophisticated self defense system. The learning curve never ends in kenpo and the self defense techniques are fascinating to learn! Kenpo karate is the like a science of fighting where you learn every angle to strike and how to utilize all your natural weapons in a street confrontation. The sets are designed to improve specific aspects of your basics and the forms are great for tournament competition.
 Take American Kenpo Karate!
 Good luck with your training


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## Akashiro Tamaya (Apr 30, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> i want a new hobby that i can use to get in shape.



*Take swimming, Tennis or even get friends together for beach volleyball fun in the sun workout*




			
				crysis said:
			
		

> i figure the belt rankings are just the thing.



*Get motivated quick and get yourself belts at your local Martial Arts supplies store.  It cost 2.99 tax included.   * 




			
				crysis said:
			
		

> post! information about average time between belts, belt system, techniques (linier to circular to whatever), belt tests, what to look for, what not to look for, ect ect.



*If you need to know the time to get a black belt then chances are you're not ready for black belt.  Get off the chair and visit these school, ask for some try out time.  Observe the instructors and students on how well they work and train. * 



			
				crysis said:
			
		

> i also have a buddy that now teaches/helps classes as a shorin-ryu black belt. he suggested taekwondo in the US is pretty watered down and not very effective.



*and your buddy has trained in how many TKD Schools to arrived at this baseless conclusion ????.   There are good TKD school out there if you put a little effort and energy into your search  * 




			
				crysis said:
			
		

> i'm not really looking for effectiveness so dont count it out.



*Then why look into training in the martial arts ?  take up running, its good cardio and its free, and good effective self defense * 



			
				crysis said:
			
		

> mainly, i want to know what kenpo is as far as style. from what i read, its more of a chinese style boxing (??) or something. searching doesnst really help me since i have no clue what kenpo is about or what to look for. just make it easier on me and tell me what i need.



*So why do you want to study Kenpo ? Kenpo might cause you to workout, wear those Pajama thingie, make you chant some chinese / japanese gibberish, improved you ,  heck it might even raise your self esteem and confidence in a level that you don't want.  *


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## arnisador (Apr 30, 2005)

It's often hard to articulate why martial arts is attractive to a person when that eprson doesn't study them yet. I appreciate *crysis*'s attempts to do so!


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## crysis (Apr 30, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> It's often hard to articulate why martial arts is attractive to a person when that eprson doesn't study them yet. I appreciate *crysis*'s attempts to do so!


thanks! i also appreciate all of your posts. theyve helped me a lot.

i was actually offered many times to take up martial arts with my dad as a child, out of his wallet. i never had interest up til now.


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## Colin_Linz (May 1, 2005)

I have no idea of the geography of were you live. But if Hollywood is nearby you may find this school interesting http://www.shorinjikempohollywood.com/ .

I think you really should try a few and see how you feel after. If you walk away feeling that you have enjoyed the training and had some fun, you will be more inclined to keep doing it regardless of belts or rankings.


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## Pezzle (May 2, 2005)

Blindside said:
			
		

> OK, biased recommendations coming up here.
> 
> 1. Avoid the ATA taekwondo place like the plague, I've never seen one that wasn't crap.


[size=-1]I Listen,[/size][size=-1]-[/size][size=-1]R[/size][size=-1]Inner Forearm Block (Muscle)[/size][size=-1]Pay Attention,[/size][size=-1]-[/size][size=-1]R[/size][size=-1]Side Kick[/size][size=-1]Follow Directions[/size][size=-1]-[/size][size=-1]R[/size][size=-1]Knifehand Strike[/size][size=-1]I'm a Karate Kid[/size][size=-1]-[/size][size=-1]L[/size][size=-1]Step back Right foot, Low Block[/size][size=-1]Yah![/size]

This made me laugh, dunno' why

http://www.atamadison.com/files/tt_sa1.html


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## crysis (May 3, 2005)

Pacificshore said:
			
		

> Kevin Warner sounds familiar to me...and if I am correct he is from/was from Dalke's dojo. Maybe give them a look see.


i talked to my buddy george panaramandanama  (or something..lol).. he was a pretty well known TKDist in the 80s...anyway he said Otis (head of UCR karate) was from dalkes dojo....he doesnt know where dalke went though.


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## crysis (May 3, 2005)

http://www.allenkjacademy.com/


what can you guys tell me about this place just by looking...ive never heard of shinsho


this is in my area but i havent had the luxery of checking it out as it has been closed when i came to look.


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## rmcrobertson (May 3, 2005)

Very nice looking website, not really all that impressed by their claims: they might be perfectly legit, but there are some of the classic martial arts BS signs.

Again, I recommend going to a class at your school and seeing if you like martial arts at all. If you can drive a little, Bob White down by the shore, or Larry Tatum or Steve Hearring in Pasadena are far more experienced as teachers than these guys.

You should go to the class, the dojo, or the studio. They will have an intro program that's pretty cheap; at this point, it looks rather as though you're "researching," to avoid just going.

Just go. Really.


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## Bill Lear (May 4, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> "...it looks rather as though you're "researching," to avoid just going.
> 
> Just go. Really."


Crysis did say the place was closed when, he/she initially went to go check it out. How does this translate into avoidance? I don't get it. Oh well...

:idunno:


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## crysis (May 4, 2005)

rmcrobertson said:
			
		

> Very nice looking website, not really all that impressed by their claims: they might be perfectly legit, but there are some of the classic martial arts BS signs.
> 
> Again, I recommend going to a class at your school and seeing if you like martial arts at all. If you can drive a little, Bob White down by the shore, or Larry Tatum or Steve Hearring in Pasadena are far more experienced as teachers than these guys.
> 
> ...


ive actually checked out all these places with exception to the 'kenpo/jujitsu' place. i enjoy watching and i think i could hang. problem with doing classes right now is im out for 3-4 more weeks recovering from a boxer's/hand break (paintball related).

im definately not avoiding but research is all i can do right now. ive been checking out classes, looking online, and researching styles but still cannot decide on the style i want. so far, shotokan seems most promising...i have yet to watch a "shinsho" (kenpo/jujitsu) class.


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## Bode (May 4, 2005)

You should definetly watch a Kenpo class before deciding. Many posts have already listed some in the area. 

 The school I train at is in Torrance, CA. If you are interested in stopping in send me a message. Even if you have no intention of joining I encourage you to stop by and at least get a different perspective. Class times are Teus and Thurs 8pm - 12am. Saturday 2:30pm - 8pm.
 With the schedule being later in the night you can avoid most traffic. 
 Either way, good luck!


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## psi_radar (May 5, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> it was suggested to me by a few people on MT so i wanted to learn a bit more about it.. kickboxing doesnt really appeal to me. as you said in another of my posts, if i dont stick with it its worthless.. i want something that i could see myself enjoying for years/a life time. raquetball, kickboxing (although very ..'scenic' wont do me anygood due to the fact that i'm already with the girl i want to marry) dont appeal to me. theres a BJJ class that offers muy thai as part of the curriculum i think ...but was never in to wrestling as said before.... honestly im putting my eggs towards either:
> 
> kenpo
> shotokan
> ...



Kenpo is a very effective form of self defense, though the level of conditioning depends on the instructors and school. You can do Kenpo and not be in terrific shape, though it helps to have some stamina. From what you've said, I'd recommend the mixed martial art (MMA) school that combines Muay Thai and BJJ. I know you don't like wrestling, but I have a feeling that's a opinion not formed from experience. Once you get over the initial discomforts of grappling I suspect you'll learn to like it a lot, if you've got a competitive spirit. Conditioning is a must for these systems and you'll get good defense skills as well. Genuine kickboxing can also be quite good, as long as it's not tae bo or "cardio" kickboxing.


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## MJS (May 5, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> ive actually checked out all these places with exception to the 'kenpo/jujitsu' place. i enjoy watching and i think i could hang. problem with doing classes right now is im out for 3-4 more weeks recovering from a boxer's/hand break (paintball related).
> 
> im definately not avoiding but research is all i can do right now. ive been checking out classes, looking online, and researching styles but still cannot decide on the style i want. so far, shotokan seems most promising...i have yet to watch a "shinsho" (kenpo/jujitsu) class.



Well, seeing that you have an injury, it would be best to wait until it's fully healed before you begin any training.

I notice that you said that you checked out some schools.  Have you decided on anything?

Mike


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## crysis (May 6, 2005)

looking at shotokan or, if i can find a good TKD school ill pick between. also gonna look in to the kenpo/jujitsu school (i scheduled an appointment for the 17th.)


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## rmcrobertson (May 6, 2005)

Oh well. I tried.


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## arnisador (May 6, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> looking at shotokan


 Ah, a good, solid style. You'll be happy with that.


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## MJS (May 7, 2005)

crysis said:
			
		

> looking at shotokan or, if i can find a good TKD school ill pick between. also gonna look in to the kenpo/jujitsu school (i scheduled an appointment for the 17th.)



As I said, its ultimately up to you as to what style you want to do.  What matters is that you're happy.

Mike


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