# Peter Jackson and "The Hobbit"!



## arnisador

*Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*



> Jackson, who directed the "Rings" trilogy, will serve as executive producer for "The Hobbit." A director for the prequel films has yet to be named.
> [...]
> Two "Hobbit" films are scheduled to be shot simultaneously, similar to how the three "Lord of the Rings" films were made. Production is set to begin in 2009 with a released planned for 2010, with the sequel scheduled for a 2011 release.



Let's hope for compelling battle scenes! Swords, archery...


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## Bigshadow

arnisador said:


> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope for compelling battle scenes! Swords, archery...



We can hope!


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## thardey

Bigshadow said:


> We can hope!



I'm looking forward to seeing a small army of dwarves fighting. Gimli was my favorite character to watch during the action of LOTR. 

I also hope they show the "darker side" of the elves, and better explain the hatred between the elves and dwarves.


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## tellner

Yippeee!
:headbangin::uhyeah::bangahead::cheers:artyon::high5:


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## Xue Sheng

YES!!

I was wondering if they were going to do the Hobbit just last weekend after watching The Two Towers


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## Omar B

I wonder how the last battle will be handled in the movie, considering Bilbo is unconcious through the whole thing.  Personally I would love to see someone eles's take on JRRT's world, or maybe it's sour grapes over how the ending of Return Of The King was handled.


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## bushidomartialarts

I'm interested to see how he does it.  The Hobbit is so very different in tone that LOTR.

LOTR is epic the way WWII and the Bible are epic.  The Hobbit reads like a childrens' faerie tale.

And then there's the dwarves.  Gimli was such a bad *** mother ****** that he should have been played by Sam Jackson.  The dwarves in the Hobbit are frequently weak and silly.

Absolutely thrilled that Jackson's going to do the movie (Peter, not Samuel).  Very curious how he's going to handle the differences.


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## MA-Caver

Well, "The Battle of the Five Armies" will be indeed interesting and because Jackson has his hand in it, it should turn out well. 

What will be interesting is the handling of Smaug.

I'll be interested to see the Riddle game between Bilbo and Gollum. "What do I have in my pocket?" 

Likewise I hope the score is just as excellent as it was for the Rings.


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## Big Don

Um, question? 
TWO?
Why two? He did the Lord of the Rings Trilogy as a trilogy, does ONE book really require two movies?
I just hope the (obviously) CGI Smaug doesn't look as crappy as the CGI Jabba the Hutt in the "Special Edition" of Star Wars...


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## MA-Caver

Big Don said:


> Um, question?
> TWO?
> Why two? He did the Lord of the Rings Trilogy as a trilogy, does ONE book really require two movies?
> I just hope the (obviously) CGI Smaug doesn't look as crappy as the CGI Jabba the Hutt in the "Special Edition" of Star Wars...


The Hobbit is a long story and it would be injustice to have to shorten it to two and half hours ... there is SO much going on in Bilbo's journey with the Dwarves that to leave something out... it'd be a crime against those who know/love the book well. 

CGI has come a LONG LONG way since the crappy Jabba. Look at Dragon Heart, Reign of Fire ... those dragons looked real good.


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## Steel Tiger

arnisador said:


> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*quote]
> 
> Peter Jackson is a Hobbit!
> 
> Seriously though, it should be pretty good.
> 
> If its a big success I wonder if he would consider the Silmarillion?  He make about eight movies out of that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Don said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um, question?
> TWO?
> Why two? He did the Lord of the Rings Trilogy as a trilogy, does ONE book really require two movies?
> I just hope the (obviously) CGI Smaug doesn't look as crappy as the CGI Jabba the Hutt in the "Special Edition" of Star Wars...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that there are some preproductions images of Smaug around already and that they are spectacular.  If they are anything like the dragons in Reign of Fire then Smaug will look fantastic.
Click to expand...


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## Blindside

It will be interesting to see how much they depower Gandalf.  For many viewers their last view of Gandalf is Gandalf the White, or at least watching Gandalf the Grey going toe to toe with a Balrog.  In the Hobbit he is reduced to throwing flaming pinecones out of trees and doing voice impersonations in the dark, not exactly the image of power.

I'm all for making the elves to be the bad guys in Mirkwood, the whole Lord of the Rings movie series was an elf love fest.

I don't think the Gimli the badass to the Hobbit's bumbling twelve dwarves is going to be that big a stretch.  Gimli was largely comic relief in the Jackson movies, had they kept closer to the books the dichotomy would be far more apparent.

Lamont


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## Big Don

I'm curious to see what the Arkenstone looks like. I know the picture in my head, but...


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## Dave Leverich

I had to just go change my pants .

I will be waiting happily. He's the only one that i know of, with the only team, that could do it justice. I know the LotR series wasn't exact, had lots of discrepencies, but it was still cinematically amazing, and a great saga!


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## bushidomartialarts

Steel Tiger said:


> arnisador said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*quote]
> If its a big success I wonder if he would consider the Silmarillion?  He make about eight movies out of that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a persistent rumor that the shriek of the Nazgul was a recording of Jackson's wife when he jokingly told her he planned to film the Silmarillion.
Click to expand...


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## Kacey

bushidomartialarts said:


> LOTR is epic the way WWII and the Bible are epic.  The Hobbit reads like a childrens' faerie tale.



The Hobbit _is_ a children's fairy tale - that's what it was written to be; Tolkien wrote it with 10-12 year olds in mind.


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## arnisador

Steel Tiger said:


> arnisador said:
> 
> 
> 
> If its a big success I wonder if he would consider the Silmarillion?  He make about eight movies out of that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, don't even joke about that! It's surely unfilmable, though I suppose you could excerpt a story here-or-there. The creation stuff would have to be animated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that there are some preproductions images of Smaug around already and that they are spectacular.  If they are anything like the dragons in Reign of Fire then Smaug will look fantastic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I liked _Reign of Fire_! Sounds good to me.
> 
> 
> 
> bushidomartialarts said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a persistent rumor that the shriek of the Nazgul was a recording of Jackson's wife when he jokingly told her he planned to film the Silmarillion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heh! That's a project for _two _lifetimes.
Click to expand...


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## MA-Caver

arnisador said:


> Originally Posted by *bushidomartialarts* There's a persistent rumor that the shriek of the Nazgul was a recording of Jackson's wife when he jokingly told her he planned to film the Silmarillion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh! That's a project for _two _lifetimes.
Click to expand...

All Jackson has to do is take his wife up in an airplane and fly over his new property/house and point out that his long absence from her due to the Rings is what PAID for it all... 
That and all those cases of Haagen Daas!


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## Steel Tiger

MA-Caver said:


> All Jackson has to do is take his wife up in an airplane and fly over his new property/house and point out that his long absence from her due to the Rings is what PAID for it all...
> That and all those cases of Haagen Daas!


 
Doesn't he own like the whole South Island of New Zealand? I expect there are people in the NZ tourism industry that pray to him each night.


Just a weird little point.  I was watching Willow the other night and noticed that large portions of it were also filmed in New Zealand.  It is very disconcerting to see an Australian possum in a fantasy movie.


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## mrhnau

arnisador said:


> Steel Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, don't even joke about that! It's surely unfilmable, though I suppose you could excerpt a story here-or-there. The creation stuff would have to be animated?
> 
> Heh! That's a project for _two _lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd pay to see it! I just finished it. Looks like cool creatures used to be omnipresent. Balrogs galore!
Click to expand...


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## arnisador

But this was (mostly) before they became balrogs, right? Or, at least they started off as Gandalf-like beings and slowly became balrogs.


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## Blindside

arnisador said:


> But this was (mostly) before they became balrogs, right? Or, at least they started off as Gandalf-like beings and slowly became balrogs.


 
The balrog were maiar allied to and corrupted by Melkor/Morgoth, by the time they make their first appearance in the first age they already have the fiery-shadowy balrog appearance.


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## crushing

arnisador said:


> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*
> 
> Let's hope for compelling battle scenes! Swords, archery...


 

Cool, because I have the 1977 Rankin and Bass animated version in my head.  It was one of the first video discs we got for our RCA CED VideoDisc player in the early 80s.  We watched The Hobbit so much that my little brother (little brother at the time, now he is my younger brother) had the whole movie memorized.


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## tellner

The fights should be good, but there is so much more to the story. If PJ and the director get too caught up in it the film will turn into a pure action flick and lose all the magic of "There and Back Again".


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## Kreth

I wonder if he'll be able to get Ian McKellan And Andy Serkis again.


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## arnisador

Kreth said:


> I wonder if he'll be able to get Ian McKellan And Andy Serkis again.



I'm guessing No and Yes, myself. But it'd be good to see Gandalf again! He did it well.


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## Dave Leverich

My own thoughts on them getting those two are... um, yeah, probably pretty likely.


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## HelloKitty

arnisador said:


> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope for compelling battle scenes! Swords, archery...


 
x2. Because I don't know if The Hobbit is enough for two parts...


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## MA-Caver

HelloKitty said:


> x2. Because I don't know if The Hobbit is enough for two parts...



If given the full treatment it deserves, yes.


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## Steel Tiger

You know, I've just realised something.  If PJ does this thing right he is going to have to explore the finding of Sting and Glamdring.  Both these weapons, plus Orcrist, were supposed to glow with a pale light when enemies were near.  Throughout LoTR Gandalf's sword did not do this even though it is supposed to be the same blade.  

I know its a finicky little thing, but in the context of The Hobbit the finding and description of these weapons is a significant thing.


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## tellner

Why is everyone obsessing about the battles and weapons? I know this is MT, but please. The story is about so much more.


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## stickarts

Thats great that the whole mess finally got straigtened out and they are going to move forward with the movies!! Can't wait!!


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## arnisador

*Guillermo del Toro to direct 'The Hobbit' and sequel*



> Guillermo del Toro is directing "The Hobbit" and its sequel, New Line Cinema announced Thursday. The 43-year-old filmmaker will move to New Zealand for four years to make the films back-to-back with executive producer Peter Jackson.


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## exile

Um... the _sequel_ to _The Hobbit???_

That would be _Lord of the Rings_, no? And I think someone actually already did that one... :lol:


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## Fiendlover

arnisador said:


> *Peter Jackson to produce `The Hobbit'*
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope for compelling battle scenes! Swords, archery...


 
OMG I CANT WAIT!  i won a model of striders sword at my dojo lol


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## FearlessFreep

exile said:


> Um... the _sequel_ to _The Hobbit???_
> 
> That would be _Lord of the Rings_, no? And I think someone actually already did that one... :lol:



The sequel is supposed to cover the time between The Hobbit and LOTR.  Not sure what was going on in the interim.  Maybe start of with the fight with the necromancer in the tower (which is mentioned in The Hobbit) and go on to handle Suaron returning to Morder and the actions of the Rangers to protect parts of Middle Earth, including the Shire.

I mean, there are references in LOTR to some events that would've happened off the main plot in The Hobbit and before LOTR, but I'm not sure how much Tolkien fleshed them out (I haven't read Unfinished Tales and some of the other writings)


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## exile

FearlessFreep said:


> The sequel is supposed to cover the time between The Hobbit and LOTR.  Not sure what was going on in the interim.  Maybe start of with the fight with the necromancer in the tower (which is mentioned in The Hobbit) and go on to handle Suaron returning to Morder and the actions of the Rangers to protect parts of Middle Earth, including the Shire.
> 
> I mean, there are references in LOTR to some events that would've happened off the main plot in The Hobbit and before LOTR, but I'm not sure how much Tolkien fleshed them out (I haven't read Unfinished Tales and some of the other writings)



OK, it'll be interesting to see the angle they take on the sequel. It could go from 'inside' to 'outside'&#8212;following up events from the point of view of the hobbits, Bilbo and Frodo especially, and their increasing entanglement with larger events in Middle Earth as things start getting serious; or it go in the opposite direction&#8212;developing the motif of the Dúnedain and their increasing conflict with the early stages of the new regime that surfaces in Mordor in the LOTR, and gradually bringing the Shire into their field of action. Could go either way....


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## arnisador

I had thought they were just making _The Hobbit_ into two films, as they plan to do with HP7?


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## stickarts

The last info I read had them doing the Hobbit in one movie and then the gap in time leading up to the Lord of the Rings in the second movie (as mentioned above).
Looking forward to it.


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## mrhnau

arnisador said:


> I had thought they were just making _The Hobbit_ into two films, as they plan to do with HP7?



I hope so!


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## Steel Tiger

FearlessFreep said:


> The sequel is supposed to cover the time between The Hobbit and LOTR. Not sure what was going on in the interim. Maybe start of with the fight with the necromancer in the tower (which is mentioned in The Hobbit) and go on to handle Suaron returning to Morder and the actions of the Rangers to protect parts of Middle Earth, including the Shire.
> 
> I mean, there are references in LOTR to some events that would've happened off the main plot in The Hobbit and before LOTR, but I'm not sure how much Tolkien fleshed them out (I haven't read Unfinished Tales and some of the other writings)


 
The sixty year period between the end of The Hobbit and the beginning of LOTR is something of a Gandalf and Aragorn tour de force as they search for Gollum and investigate the return of Sauron and the Nine to Mordor.  And then there is the whole situation with Balin reoccupying Moria.  Lots of fights between dwarves and orcs.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Steel Tiger said:


> The sixty year period between the end of The Hobbit and the beginning of LOTR is something of a Gandalf and Aragorn tour de force as they search for Gollum and investigate the return of Sauron and the Nine to Mordor. And then there is the whole situation with Balin reoccupying Moria. Lots of fights between dwarves and orcs.


 
Hey that is awesome and it would definately be exciting and round out everything.


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## Sukerkin

I quite agree.  

The mythic struggle to take, hold and eventually lose Moria would be as much an emotional roller-coaster as any other part of this splendid history-that-should've-been.


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## Steel Tiger

Sukerkin said:


> I quite agree.
> 
> The mythic struggle to take, hold and eventually lose Moria would be as much an emotional roller-coaster as any other part of this splendid history-that-should've-been.


 
The stuff is all pretty well described in the various History of Middle-earth books.

The thing is, elves sell, but I'm not sure dwarves will so much.


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## Sukerkin

It's an opportunity to undo all the anti-Dwarven propoganda and piss-taking that has gone on for far too long.  

When I first read LOTR I was struck by the taciturn dignity of the stone-tough Dwarves - then Warhammer seems to have turned them into pseudo-Scottish laughing-stocks and Jackson perpetuated that to a huge audience.


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## tellner

According to this Andy Serkis and Ian McKellan are in. And del Toro is getting ready to move to NZ for the next four years.


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## Steel Tiger

Sukerkin said:


> It's an opportunity to undo all the anti-Dwarven propoganda and piss-taking that has gone on for far too long.
> 
> When I first read LOTR I was struck by the taciturn dignity of the stone-tough Dwarves - then Warhammer seems to have turned them into pseudo-Scottish laughing-stocks and Jackson perpetuated that to a huge audience.


 
Its true, the story of Durin's Folk has a restrained, disciplined dignity to it.  I guess that is why those episodes where their greed comes to the surface are so stark.

If Andy Serkis and Ian McKellan are in then we will probably see something of the search for Gollum and maybe some of the activities of the White Council.  

I would very much like to see something about the Necromancer but the assault on Dol Guldur occurs at the same time as the events in The Hobbit.  But then I would like to see something about the wars against Angmar and the destruction of the Northern Kingdom.  Its very unlikely though.


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## Cryozombie

del Toro is an excellent director, I think this movie will be well done with him at the chair.


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## FearlessFreep

Interview with del Toro at TheOneRing.net

excerpt...



> Fans are all abuzz about The Second Film, can you tell some of your plans for it?
> 
> GDT: You know, I traveled to New Zealand just a little while ago, and one of the main reasons for going was to sit down and talk about the second film. The Hobbit, the book, is really one self-contained film, so for the second movie we sat down and worked it out. When we did this we got really excited because this second film is not a tag on, its not filler, its an integral part of telling the story of those 50 years of history lost in the narrative. There will be certain things that we will see from the first movie but from a different point of view, but it will feel like a volume, in the 5 volumes of the entire story. It will not feel like a bridge, Ive been hearing it called a bridge film, its not, its an integral chapter of the story, and I think were all on the same page.


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## Sukerkin

Mmmm ... {sniffs the future with anticipation} :tup:.


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## Steel Tiger

Well we shall see won't we?  It is about 60 years of activity, and given the way they messed about with the timeline of LOTR...  But 50 year old hobbit adventurers don't really appeal to the younger audience do they?

Whatever happens we should get a very different look at some of the lesser races of Middle earth.  Bilbo did go off to the Lonely Mountain with a Dwarven jazz combo, and the elves of Mirkwood are rather nasty, and there's Beorn, and giant spiders and, oh, a Dragon!

And once these are done they can settle down are prepare for the nine (or maybe twelve) movie Silmarillion series.


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## stickarts

Now I have heard that they are taking about doing just The Hobbit and not the gap between the Hobbit and LOTR. The Hobbit may be split into two movies.


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## zDom

Steel Tiger said:


> And once these are done they can settle down are prepare for the nine (or maybe twelve) movie Silmarillion series.



As the Silmarillion is a collection of stories, it would be easy enough to break it down into many movies.

 Creation/Fall of the House of Feanor

 The Beleriand Wars

 Turin

*Beren and Luthien

etc.

Of course, there are some pretty touchy subjects woven in there  incest, for example ...


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## stickarts

zDom said:


> As the Silmarillion is a collection of stories, it would be easy enough to break it down into many movies.
> 
>  Creation/Fall of the House of Feanor
> 
>  The Beleriand Wars
> 
>  Turin
> 
> *Beren and Luthien
> 
> etc.
> 
> Of course, there are some pretty touchy subjects woven in there  incest, for example ...


 
Beren and Luthien could make a good movie. If The Hobbit makes Money (and you know it will), you know some kind of movie will follow.


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## MA-Caver

Steel Tiger said:


> Well we shall see won't we?  It is about 60 years of activity, and given the way they messed about with the timeline of LOTR...  But 50 year old hobbit adventurers don't really appeal to the younger audience do they?
> 
> Whatever happens we should get a very different look at some of the lesser races of Middle earth.  Bilbo did go off to the Lonely Mountain with a Dwarven jazz combo, and the elves of Mirkwood are rather nasty, and there's Beorn, and giant spiders and, oh, a Dragon!


That's the thing I'm worried about. The proper treatment of the lesser races (???) of Middle Earth (and just WHO are the higher ones??). Throughout LOTR Gimli the Dwarf was given a lot of one liners and pratfalls (couldn't stay on a horse to save his life) almost like comic relief. At times Reyes Davies did play him serious but also bungling. I don't recall any of that in the books (having just re-read them less than a month ago)... so I wonder if the dozen dwarves in the Hobbit are going to be a bunch of keystone cops or the dwarves in Time Bandits? True they kept finding themselves in one predicament after another but it was the stuff along their journey. Dunno, maybe I'm reading it wrong? 
Will the Mirkwood Elves be a bunch of nasties? For LOTR it seemed they could do no wrong. But then I guess I could live for more than 1000 years and learn how NOT to do things the wrong way. 
Beorn was an important character for the Hobbit and I hope he is given proper treatment. 
Smaug will be very interesting indeed, also hoping that his portrayal won't be "over the top" in either nastiness or cunning or whatever. 

Bilbo used the ring several times throughout the Hobbit. Whereas since it was used a few times to "not-bad-effect" in LOTR, seems to me that they'll need to have a way where it's easier (for the audience) to see the invisibility of Bilbo as he moves about since he wears it for prolonged periods, longer than Frodo did, sort of shimmering outline effect so we can better track his movements... particularly moving about Smaug's treasure trove and the Dwarves encampment. 

Hopefully it'll all be done with the same amount of care and attention and love applied to LOTR's. The time span for the aforementioned film was indeed greatly compressed. For example Frodo and Sam wandered around Mordor for nearly a month trying to reach Mt. Doom, having been waylaid by the Orcs on their long march to the Black Gate. This was compressed down to about 5 minutes or less. Another example where Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were in "3 days and nights pursuit" of the Orcs carrying Merry and Pippin, likewise compressed to about 5-10 minutes of film altogether til they reached the edges of Fangorn. 

Not easy to do for sure but still well done and I heartily applaud the entire cast/crew for going back and re-shooting and extending scenes to make the expanded editions of each film. An obvious lesson learned by Jackson since the Hobbit will be broken down into two 2+ hour long features. Likewise one would expect the DVD versions to have their own expansions.


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## zDom

MA-Caver said:


> ... so I wonder if the dozen dwarves in the Hobbit are going to be a bunch of keystone cops




That's kind of how they were written for the Hobbit, though (excepting the Thorin's end which was a somber hero's death  finally noble after being pompous for pretty much the entire book).

The Hobbit was a much different kind of book than LotR.

And in the Silmarillion, while they are definately more seriously written, they aren't really shown in a very favorable light most of the time, either ...


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## Tez3

MA-Caver said:


> That's the thing I'm worried about. The proper treatment of the lesser races (???) of Middle Earth (and just WHO are the higher ones??). Throughout LOTR Gimli the Dwarf was given a lot of one liners and pratfalls (couldn't stay on a horse to save his life) almost like comic relief. At times *Reyes Davies* did play him serious but also bungling. I don't recall any of that in the books (having just re-read them less than a month ago)... so I wonder if the dozen dwarves in the Hobbit are going to be a bunch of keystone cops or the dwarves in Time Bandits? True they kept finding themselves in one predicament after another but it was the stuff along their journey. Dunno, maybe I'm reading it wrong?
> Will the Mirkwood Elves be a bunch of nasties? For LOTR it seemed they could do no wrong. But then I guess I could live for more than 1000 years and learn how NOT to do things the wrong way.
> Beorn was an important character for the Hobbit and I hope he is given proper treatment.
> Smaug will be very interesting indeed, also hoping that his portrayal won't be "over the top" in either nastiness or cunning or whatever.
> 
> Bilbo used the ring several times throughout the Hobbit. Whereas since it was used a few times to "not-bad-effect" in LOTR, seems to me that they'll need to have a way where it's easier (for the audience) to see the invisibility of Bilbo as he moves about since he wears it for prolonged periods, longer than Frodo did, sort of shimmering outline effect so we can better track his movements... particularly moving about Smaug's treasure trove and the Dwarves encampment.
> 
> Hopefully it'll all be done with the same amount of care and attention and love applied to LOTR's. The time span for the aforementioned film was indeed greatly compressed. For example Frodo and Sam wandered around Mordor for nearly a month trying to reach Mt. Doom, having been waylaid by the Orcs on their long march to the Black Gate. This was compressed down to about 5 minutes or less. Another example where Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were in "3 days and nights pursuit" of the Orcs carrying Merry and Pippin, likewise compressed to about 5-10 minutes of film altogether til they reached the edges of Fangorn.
> 
> Not easy to do for sure but still well done and I heartily applaud the entire cast/crew for going back and re-shooting and extending scenes to make the expanded editions of each film. An obvious lesson learned by Jackson since the Hobbit will be broken down into two 2+ hour long features. Likewise one would expect the DVD versions to have their own expansions.


 

You are going to break a Welshmans heart! It's John Rhys-Davies who played Gimli!


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## MA-Caver

Tez3 said:


> You are going to break a Welshmans heart! It's John Rhys-Davies who played Gimli!


*pouts* I got the last part o' th name spelt right. *pouts*


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## Tez3

MA-Caver said:


> *pouts* I got the last part o' th name spelt right. *pouts*


 
Lol! the Welsh are very fiery people more so than dwarves!


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## Brian Jones

Cymru Am Byth!


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## matt.m

Yeah,

Bilbo kickin the screen on his own.  Well, to tell the truth I Sam was my favorite.  The guy only wanted to be a good helper, never asked for anything and he stayed instead of leaving at the end of the 3rd.

He was content with being a bar tender.


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## MA-Caver

matt.m said:


> Yeah,
> 
> Bilbo kickin the screen on his own.  Well, to tell the truth I Sam was my favorite.  The guy only wanted to be a good helper, never asked for anything and he stayed instead of leaving at the end of the 3rd.
> 
> He was content with being a bar tender.


Sam to me was the real hero of the book because (again) Frodo wouldn't have made it without Sam. 


by the way... Sam was Frodo's gardener. He married Rosie Cotton the barkeep/barmaid/bartender :wink1:


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## arnisador

MA-Caver said:


> Sam to me was the real hero of the book because (again) Frodo wouldn't have made it without Sam.



In many ways I agree with this! He went _willingly_.


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## MA-Caver

arnisador said:


> In many ways I agree with this! He went _willingly_.


Well yes, but remember that Gandalf promised "not to turn him into anything un-natural for dropping eaves" and made him promise "don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee!" and he didn't mean to.  
But yeah those two were as inseparable as Kirk and Spock. :lol:

To me Frodo and Sam's friendship personified the true meaning of the bond of friendship. Merry and Pippin were clearly close buddies and just as loyal but they allowed themselves to be separated (unwillingly of course thanks to the Took's unnatural curiosity), but the love as friends between Frodo and Sam ... just friends... nothing more. 
I've only known a few like that. 

Something to be cherished indeed. 
:asian:


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## stickarts

All good points!
Frodo willingly went too. He could have walked away after he brought the ring to Rivendell.


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