# what is aikijujitsu, does anyone still teach?



## donald

I have read that it is the forerunner of aikido, and the  various systems of jujitsu . Are there any instructors of the classical aiki systems, i.e. Daito(sp?)Ryu ? I am talking about verifiable, certified schools, instructors etc.. Much like a family home is deeded through the generations. Now lets go a few steps further. Are there any, such as mentioned above, in the states?

By His Grace,
1st John 1:9  :asian:


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## madfrank

Aikijutsu was the martial art ueshiba did before he invented aikido after he had a nervous breakdown and thought he was enlightened.

He saw Aikido as a spiritual tool.

But any guy who thinks he is enlightened is dodgy mentally



MF


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## Brother John

madfrank said:
			
		

> Aikijutsu was the martial art ueshiba did before he invented aikido after he had a nervous breakdown and thought he was enlightened.
> He saw Aikido as a spiritual tool.
> But any guy who thinks he is enlightened is dodgy mentally
> MF


#1: M. Ueshiba studied Daito Ryu Aikijutsu. NOT anything called "Aikijujutsu" which is what this thread was asking about.
((For the original posters information: Look up Bernie Lau (migh be spelled Law, don't know) as I believe he was the one who coined the term "Aikijujutsu" for the material he was teaching in the 70's and 80's))
#2: You are being extremely disrespectful of a very good person.  How do you know he wasn't "enlightened"?? Also: He didn't have a nervous breakdown.
Were you his psychologist? Are you a psychologist at all?? There's a science and an art to making a diagnosis... it's Best left to those who're trained!



Your Brother
John


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## Brother John

donald said:
			
		

> I have read that it is the forerunner of aikido, and the  various systems of jujitsu . Are there any instructors of the classical aiki systems, i.e. Daito(sp?)Ryu ? I am talking about verifiable, certified schools, instructors etc.. Much like a family home is deeded through the generations. Now lets go a few steps further. Are there any, such as mentioned above, in the states?
> 
> By His Grace,
> 1st John 1:9  :asian:


Here's a place to look bro.
http://www.wuji.com/Masters/lausensei.htm
Actually....here's an even BETTER one:
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_1101.htm

God Bless

Your Brother
John
 :asian:


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## Shinyokai

Brother John,

You are mistaken about your definitions concerning aikijujutsu and aikijutsu.  It is a complex subject which has inspired significant confusion.  Aikijujutsu is a specific martial art while aiki jutsu is a group of principles, theories or techniques utilized in several classical martial disciplines including Daito ryu. 

"Aiki" is actually an old name for a group of kenjutsu tactics that employed mental inertia, disruption and involuntary reflex to defeat ones opponent.  In taijutsu, aiki principles are most effectively employed in conjunction with jujutsu waza....hence the name aikijujutsu. At its highest level of execution aikijujutsu is characterized by sophisticated jujutsu waza which employs mental disruption and soft joint locks to throw or immobilize an attacker. Aiki taken even farther in taijutsu becomes the aforementioned aiki no waza (aiki jutsu) which almost totally eschews joint locking in favor of very subtle kuzushi and mental disruption to defeat an attack. Most aiki no waza should be viewed as a study of physical and mental dynamics as opposed to effective self defense. The extreme level of intricacy required for the effective application of aiki no waza make it a risky proposition in an art like taijutsu where even a successfully thrown opponent can recover and attack again. However, aiki jutsu (principles) applied in kenjutsu can be startlingly effective as the momentary kuzushi or mental disruption resulting from the application of "aiki" can be immediately followed by a life ending sword cut. 

One thing that I must reiterate is that all true aikijujutsu must be descended or historically linked to Daito ryu or Shidare Yanagi ryu in some fashion. The chance of finding actual aikijujutsu in the US is very slim. There are probably something less than 30 legit dojos in the US teaching authentic aikijujutsu. A vast majority of the aikijujutsu schools out there are just teaching bad Aikido with kicks and punches mixed in and who have no verifiable links to genuine aikijujutsu.

For a more in depth discussion of aikijujutsu I recommend the book "Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, Conversations with Daito ryu Masters" published by Stan Pranin and available  at www.aikidojournal.com


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## Brother John

Good points all!!!!
Thanks for helping me learn more.
One way or the other, it's all VERY interesting!!

 :asian: 
your brother
John


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## Swan

Hello All,

  Actually good news, we have a school in Michigan that is actual Daito Ryu AikiJuJutsu and has absolutely nothing to do with Aikido (not that there is anything wrong with Aikido, just stating that this is not Aikido trying to revert back to Daito Ryu). We are in Clio Michigan (a tidy little haul from Ohio). Our lineage is Bokuyokan and is: Sokaku Takeda > Kodo Horikawa > Katsumi Yonezawa > Tim Tung > Garner Train. Shihan Tim Tung is located in New Jersey and is the head of the United States branch of Daito Ryu Bokuyokan. Garner Train (our sensei/Koncho) is directly under him and he (Shihan Tim Tung) comes to our school from time to time and puts on seminars in advanced techniques. If you want to find out more about Daito Ryu Bokuyokan (including dojo locations) you can find out more here http://yonezawa-dojo.netfirms.com/ 

   I hope this helps.


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## TimoS

Swan said:
			
		

> Actually good news, we have a school in Michigan that is actual Daito Ryu AikiJuJutsu and has absolutely nothing to do with Aikido (not that there is anything wrong with Aikido, just stating that this is not Aikido trying to revert back to Daito Ryu).



I remember reading years ago in Black Belt magazine a simple way to know if you're doing aikido or aikijujutsu: if your uke is smiling, you're doing aikido. However, if he's screaming in pain, you're doing aikijujutsu 

I've never practised aikijujutsu (although there is a dojo in my hometown), so I don't know how accurate that is


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## Swan

> I remember reading years ago in Black Belt magazine a simple way to know if you're doing aikido or aikijujutsu: if your uke is smiling, you're doing aikido. However, if he's screaming in pain, you're doing aikijujutsu
> 
> I've never practised aikijujutsu (although there is a dojo in my hometown), so I don't know how accurate that is


In contrast, I've never done Aikido, but from what I've heard of Aikido that sounds about right. One of the first things you'll learn (instinctively I might ad) in Daito Ryu AikiJuJutsu is to tap, and make sure you tap loudly so it can't be mistaken for anything else. AikiJuJutsu can be very painful to learn, but well worth it. The beautiful thing about AikiJuJutsu is that it combines the fluidity and control of Aiki with the immobilizing techniques of JuJutsu. Very effective and powerful stuff, I really like it. When the question arises "does it hurt" you have to remember this was an art used by Samurai of feudal Japan, you bet it hurts.


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## TimoS

Swan said:
			
		

> When the question arises "does it hurt" you have to remember this was an art used by Samurai of feudal Japan, you bet it hurts.



Sounds about right to me  I'm practising another koryu jujutsu style and yes, it hurts if/when you do it right. Of course you go easy on your partner.

All I've seen of Daito ryu is some demonstrations and it seems to me to be a very complex style. No doubt it is effective, but the demonstration I saw seemed a bit overly complex to me.


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## psi_radar

I've been to seminars with Don Philip, who's local. I'm not positive of his rank, but I know he started with the system sometime back in the '50s. 

A very impressive soft style when used by someone skillful. Some of the stuff he could do to resisting uke looked almost magical. Lots of great throws, locks, and redirections. I learned all sorts of dirty tricks in a short period of time.  If you can find a good teacher, it's definitely an art worth pursuing.


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## donald

Swan,

Thank you for your post. It was interesting.

Thanks Again,
By GOD's Grace,
Donald 1st John 1:9 :asian:


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## Swan

> All I've seen of Daito ryu is some demonstrations and it seems to me to be a very complex style. No doubt it is effective, but the demonstration I saw seemed a bit overly complex to me.


 Hello TimoS,

 Actually you would be surprised at how a lot of the techniques make sense when you have been doing it for a little while. The demonstration you watched was probably higher level techniques and like any other style you build on your techniques as you go, so by the time you are to that point the complex techniques will be eaiser to pick up. Don't get me wrong, it has a definate level of complexity, but just like any other art.


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## Toasty

There are also  branches led by students/sensei of what used to be called Daito-ryu Hakuho Kai Aikijutsu and is now known as Hakuho Ryu formed by Okabayashi Sensei, located in Michigan & Pennsylvania.

Here is their bio...


Okabayashi Sensei studied Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu mainly under the late Takeda Tokimune (Takeda Sokaku's son) and Hisa Takuma, Menkyo Kaiden of Daito Ryu (one of only two people Sokaku Sensei ever awarded this rank to). Sensei trained in Ono Ha Itto Ryu Kenjutsu exclusively under Takeda Tokimune and holds a Menkyo in this system. 
Training with Takeda Tokimune, sensei recieved the title of Kyoju Dairy in Daito Ryu. Kyoju Dairi means assistant teacher, and represents the mastery of the following techniques: shoden (118) techniques, aiki-no-jutsu (53) techniques, hiden okgui (38) techniques and goshinyo-no-te (84) techniques. 

The Hakuho Ryu was formed by Okabayshi Shogen Sensei for the goal to preserve the traditional Daito Ryu bujutsu, body movements of the bushi and the Hitoemi principle that are fundamental to Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu. Sensei's goal is to preserve Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu and Ono Ha Itto Ryu Kenjutsu Sakaku-den in their original form and without influence of modern body movements. 

The Hakuho Ryu System 

The Hakuho Ryu system contains the following Mokuroku: 

Shoden ---------Hidden Mokuroku------- 118 Techniques. 
Aiki-no-jutsu ----------------------------- 53 Techniques. 
Hiden okgui------------------------------- 38 Techniques. 
Goshinyo-no-te--------------------------- 84 Techniques. 


Daito Ryu Techniques are organised in the following manner: 

Tachiai (standing techniques) 
Idori (seated techniques) 
Ushiro (techniques against attackes from behind) 
Hanza handashi (seated techniques against standing attacker) 
Weapons Waza (techniques with various weapons used by the bushi)


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## CMS

Where in Michigan?


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## Swan

Around the Flint Area.


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## zujitsu

The dojo I practice in which is located in San Antonio, TX is known as a Zujitsu-ryu and aikijujitsu dojo.


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## spatulahunter

CMS said:
			
		

> Where in Michigan?



Clio Mi between Flint and Saginaw. I also train there and it is an exceptional school


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## Korppi76

Has anyone heard Takeda ryu aikijutsu? 
I just notice that it was mentioned to be another still active aiki jutsu style and it would be interresting to know about it. (Just reading book about history of Bujutsu)
But about that thing that Aikijutsu hurts... well it always debends how you train. 
(but this is only from my limited sessions when I have trained with Aikijutsukas )


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## spatulahunter

Korppi76 said:
			
		

> Has anyone heard Takeda ryu aikijutsu?
> I just notice that it was mentioned to be another still active aiki jutsu style and it would be interresting to know about it. (Just reading book about history of Bujutsu)
> But about that thing that Aikijutsu hurts... well it always debends how you train.
> (but this is only from my limited sessions when I have trained with Aikijutsukas )




it is takeda daito ryu aiki jujutsu.

http://www.daito-ryu.org/takedaso.html

that explains who takeda was


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## Korppi76

spatulahunter said:
			
		

> it is takeda daito ryu aiki jujutsu.
> 
> http://www.daito-ryu.org/takedaso.html
> 
> that explains who takeda was


Hmm could be... I was reading "Secrets of Samurai" and it made distinction between Daito ryu (which is older) and Takeda ryu. That book said the first one is that one in that link and that other one was only mentioned but I got impression that it was some earlier branch of Daito ryu. 
But this is only my understanding about what I read.


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## spatulahunter

Korppi76 said:
			
		

> Hmm could be... I was reading "Secrets of Samurai" and it made distinction between Daito ryu (which is older) and Takeda ryu. That book said the first one is that one in that link and that other one was only mentioned but I got impression that it was some earlier branch of Daito ryu.
> But this is only my understanding about what I read.




hmm maybe im mistaken. I just know that sokaku takeda was the forefather of modern daito ryu and his son tokimune takeda took over the art although he is no longer alive his students still teach. And since ryu means school it would translate to "takedas school" and i have never heard of him teaching anything but daito ryu. Then again it could be a name that someone took for their school so they could sound good


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## Shotochem

Hi All,

We used to have a small group of people who trained 2 days a week at our dojo.  They were AkiJuJitsu.  They were real good serious nasty techniques and weapon defenses.   Throws, locks, takedowns, it hurt to watch at times.
From what I undersand about this group is that they sort of went underground after their head guy had passed away and they weren't into the whole political thing. :whip: 

It sucks.  I really wanted to train with those guys.  We used to warm up with them occasionally before starting our respective classes.  They showed us some nasty techniques!!!!! :xtrmshock 

Great bunch of guys.


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## Korppi76

spatulahunter said:
			
		

> hmm maybe im mistaken. I just know that sokaku takeda was the forefather of modern daito ryu and his son tokimune takeda took over the art although he is no longer alive his students still teach. And since ryu means school it would translate to "takedas school" and i have never heard of him teaching anything but daito ryu. Then again it could be a name that someone took for their school so they could sound good


Heh, more likely I am mistaken. I have only read that other aiki jutsu ryu form that boot which is ... quite not so accurate.


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## Darth F.Takeda

Roy Goldberg teaches Daito Ryu AikiJujutsu KodoKai in Conn.
My  Sensei, Dave  Lamond teaches Kodo Kai in Va.


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## firtamag

Does anybody know of a Aikijujitsu school in the San Antonio , Texas area ?


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