# Joe Salazar, Yu Ko Ryu Hanshi



## ykrhanshi

Joe Salazar started martial arts training in 1948 at the Sears YMCA in Chicago, Illinois. He continued to train and study while in the U. S. Army from 1958 to 1964 and was a member of the U. S. Army Demonstration Team in Germany for Judo, Karate, and Jujitsu. He lived and trained in Utah for two years before moving to California in 1967. Mr. Salazar graduated from San Jose State University with a B. S. in Health Science and earned his B. S. in Law and J. D. from Saratoga University Law School. In 1974 he opened his first Ronin Dojo in Mountain View, California and instructed in Judo for the Palo Alto Community Recreation Department in 1975. He served as Karate Instructor for the Palo Alto YMCA in 1976 and 1977; he then served as Karate Director in 1978. He has also taught classes in Judo, Karate, and Self Defense for East Side Adult and Community Education in San Jose, California. Mr. Salazar has performed many demonstrations and seminars over the past fifty years and continues to be available for Instruction, lectures and demonstrations.

Member of United States Martial Arts Association

Highest rank certificates to date (10/12/2015):

Judo Hachidan (8th degree) 04/14/1984

Jujitsu Kudan (9th degree) 12/11/2005

Karate Kudan (9th degree) 11/12/2005


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Are you Joe Salazar, or are you informing us about Joe Salazar? I would assume the first, since you're posting this in the meet and greet, but referring to yourself as "he" seems...odd.


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## Dirty Dog

It's just a cut and paste from the web site for the organization he created.


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## Flying Crane

I didn't know you could get a bachelors degree in law.  That's news to me.  A law degree in the US is a graduate program.  A paralegal certificate is not a bachelors degree, and can be completed at a community college.  I'm not even sure if a paralegal certificate existed in the 1960s and 1970s.

Care to explain?


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## Flying Crane

I wouldn't put the Saratoga University Law School on your resume, if I was you.

www

Did you pass the California state bar?

Edit: there is a Joseph Anthony Salazar listed as an active member of the California Bar.  That person went to law school at UCLA.  This is not him.  No others are listed.


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## Dirty Dog

Welcome to MartialTalk. Hope you enjoy it.

We do not allow fraud busting here, but there are some things in your c.v. that seem to me to warrant a raised eyebrow and a few questions. So...



ykrhanshi said:


> Joe Salazar started martial arts training in 1948 at the Sears YMCA in Chicago, Illinois. He continued to train and study while in the U. S. Army from 1958 to 1964 and was a member of the U. S. Army Demonstration Team in Germany for Judo, Karate, and Jujitsu. He lived and trained in Utah for two years before moving to California in 1967.



So what, specifically, did you train in, under whom, and to what rank?



ykrhanshi said:


> Mr. Salazar graduated from San Jose State University with a B. S. in Health Science and earned his B. S. in Law and J. D. from Saratoga University Law School.



I've never heard of a BS in law. As someone else mentioned, though, this and the JD degree are from a online correspondence school, which was established by a man who surrendered his license to practice law rather than face charges of malpractice, fraud, and totally screwing up many cases. Mail order degrees... this seems to be the educational version of the McDojo.



ykrhanshi said:


> In 1974 he opened his first Ronin Dojo in Mountain View, California



What is a "Ronin Dojo?"



ykrhanshi said:


> and instructed in Judo for the Palo Alto Community Recreation Department in 1975.



So the dojo was kaput in a year?



ykrhanshi said:


> Member of United States Martial Arts Association
> 
> Highest rank certificates to date (10/12/2015):
> 
> Judo Hachidan (8th degree) 04/14/1984
> 
> Jujitsu Kudan (9th degree) 12/11/2005
> 
> Karate Kudan (9th degree) 11/12/2005



That's an impressive list. But, you know, "judo", "jujitsu", and "karate" are pretty generic terms. Which associations issued those ranks? What specific style of Karate/Jujitsu/Judo?


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## Tez3

Flying Crane said:


> I didn't know you could get a bachelors degree in law.



We have them but he would have LLB ( Bachelor of Laws) and would need to re-qualify to do American law lol.


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## Flying Crane

Tez3 said:


> We have them but he would have LLB ( Bachelor of Laws) and would need to re-qualify to do American law lol.


Yeah, I thought it worked a bit differently in Britain but this guy is here in California, not far from me, actually.  I was just down in that area a couple days ago visiting the Orion Telescope store, picking up a couple new eyepieces for my Dobsonian.  New toys for me, yay!!


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## wingchun100

That was...different.


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## Tames D

Interesting. I hope we hear from Mr. Salazar again to clear this up, but my gut tells me we won't.


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## Tames D

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, I thought it worked a bit differently in Britain but this guy is here in California, not far from me, actually.  I was just down in that area a couple days ago visiting the Orion Telescope store, picking up a couple new eyepieces for my Dobsonian.  New toys for me, yay!!


Do you know the way to San Jose?


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## Flying Crane

Tames D said:


> Do you know the way to San Jose?


Is that from a song?


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## Tames D

I think I just dated myself


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## frank raud

Tames D said:


> I think I just dated myself


 Who knows, you might get lucky.


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## wingchun100

Dated myself?

Is that what they're calling it now? lol


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## ykrhanshi

Flying Crane said:


> I didn't know you could get a bachelors degree in law.  That's news to me.  A law degree in the US is a graduate program.  A paralegal certificate is not a bachelors degree, and can be completed at a community college.  I'm not even sure if a paralegal certificate existed in the 1960s and 1970s.
> 
> Care to explain?


A B.A. or B.S. was a prerequisite, plus a satisfactory score on the LSAT, after completion of 2 years the B.S. in Law was issued, at the end of 4 years the J.D. was issued.


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## Flying Crane

ykrhanshi said:


> A B.A. or B.S. was a prerequisite, plus a satisfactory score on the LSAT, after completion of 2 years the B.S. in Law was issued, at the end of 4 years the J.D. was issued.


I am familiar with the process.  That is not a bachelors degree in law.  A law degree is a graduate degree.  Yes, you need a bachelors degree first, but the bachelors is not a law degree.

I have several attorneys in my family, including my wife, my father-in-law, and my brother.


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## ykrhanshi

Flying Crane said:


> I wouldn't put the Saratoga University Law School on your resume, if I was you.
> 
> www
> 
> Did you pass the California state bar?
> 
> Edit: there is a Joseph Anthony Salazar listed as an active member of the California Bar.  That person went to law school at UCLA.  This is not him.  No others are listed.



1.I never became an attorney, I took an accounting teacher job.
2.Mr. Narkin did have some legal trouble with the CA Bar and moved to another state. I don't know the details of his case.
3.Distance programs are just as acceptable as residence programs, for those who only want to learn legal theory and case law, but not practice in a court room. 
4.Having lawyers in the family isn't the same as reading thousands of words from hundreds of precedent setting cases. 
5.The dojo was in place for 5 years then moved to another location. 
6.My rank certificates were issued by Phil Porter. 
7.Go to the website and read all the articles, buy the books and study them, then if there are any other questions they can be emailed to me directly, with your real name of course.

All those who have chosen the Asian Martial Arts way of life and read this forum, know that one who makes an unnecessary effort to find flaws and imperfections in others, is in doubt about his own courage and has low self esteem. This person is one who seeks validation by lowering others rather than raising himself. Feeling unable to attain the status and recognition of those he wishes to impress, he thinks he is a failure. Proper guidance in the training of body, mind and spirit can overcome and defeat this feeling. Many people serve in a military service and are trained in restoring self confidence and pride in self and others. Some who fit the defeatist description are revived by joining in some team effort and even become the best leaders.

Remember to write,

Sensei Joe


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## Chris Parker

I'd also note that the questions on the vagueness over the martial arts qualifications are yet to be answered as well...


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## jks9199

Flying Crane said:


> I am familiar with the process.  That is not a bachelors degree in law.  A law degree is a graduate degree.  Yes, you need a bachelors degree first, but the bachelors is not a law degree.
> 
> I have several attorneys in my family, including my wife, my father-in-law, and my brother.


Bachelor's in Law was an older degree.  Off the top of my head, I don't remember exactly how it fit, but it predated the JD that generally is awarded today. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Flying Crane

jks9199 said:


> Bachelor's in Law was an older degree.  Off the top of my head, I don't remember exactly how it fit, but it predated the JD that generally is awarded today.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


How old are we talking about?  Prior to the 1960s?  1930s? 1880s?

I suppose it is possible that some university today might offer a bachelors in law, but that would be a unique program and certainly does not prepare someone to practice law.  Passing the bar is required, and a proper JD is the best route to success in that, tho to be honest it is not the only route.


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## jks9199

Flying Crane said:


> How old are we talking about?  Prior to the 1960s?  1930s? 1880s?
> 
> I suppose it is possible that some university today might offer a bachelors in law, but that would be a unique program and certainly does not prepare someone to practice law.  Passing the bar is required, and a proper JD is the best route to success in that, tho to be honest it is not the only route.


I'm not certain, but not all that long ago.  Passing the bar exam is only required to practice law; while i don't quite get spending the money for law school and not spending at least some time practicibg, people do it...  And then there are states like Virginia where you can still "read law" under the guidance of an attorney,  and then take the bar exam without setting goot in a law school...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Flying Crane

jks9199 said:


> I'm not certain, but not all that long ago.  Passing the bar exam is only required to practice law; while i don't quite get spending the money for law school and not spending at least some time practicibg, people do it...  And then there are states like Virginia where you can still "read law" under the guidance of an attorney,  and then take the bar exam without setting goot in a law school...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Yes, this is all true.  I was not aware of a bachelors in law in any capacity.  I have never heard of it before.  I'll ask my wife about it, see if she knows the history.


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## Flying Crane

Ok, quick google-fu uncovers American Public University, an online school, that offers a bachelors degree in legal studies.  It claims to be relevant to people looking for a career as a paralegal or law enforcement, or as preparation to entering law school.  

While a bachelors degree is required to enter law school, what the topic of the bachelors degree might be is wide open.  It absolutely does not need to be in legal studies.


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## ykrhanshi

Most of those I knew or practiced with are dead and gone, Phil Porter, Sig Kufferath, Tom Anguay, Ed Parker, Keiko Fukuda, Bud Estes, and Kobun Chino to name a few. Some I lost track of like Henry Aragon, Mitch Otta, Sgt. Tembler and many others. Some may have been lost in the Vietnam War, since we did have a draft in effect. We did not see the need to keep records of training, and we did not follow the tradition of passing on a scroll listing generations of teachers and students. The politics of martial arts organizations in the U. S. seems to have begun around 1945 when Japanese Americans were reestablishing their cultural community activities. In 1948 some non Asian Americans still looked at Japanese Americans with suspicion. Many families would not allow their children to participate in anything connected with Japanese culture. Americans in Hawaii and California created schools for martial arts that were not part of the Japanese community, but followed the same training regimen. As prejudice and suspicions wore down, American MA clubs and schools were invited to join the Japanese organizations. Some did and some preferred to remain independent. For those of us who remained independent due to our teachers operating a floating dojo, or being anti organization, when we joined an organized martial arts association we produced whatever documentation we could and were evaluated and/or tested. Having satisfied the examiner that we qualified for a certificate of rank, the certificate for that organization was issued. As Americans we don't feel a need to trace our lineage back to Siddhartha Gautama, but some make an impressive try. Academic, historical data means little in a combat situation. Anyone in a free society may write a document that will have value to some and be just a piece of paper to others. The true test of MA skill is in combat, and knowledge is in teaching. No one is required to justify him or her self to any individual or organization, unless seeking recognition. To most the study of martial arts is a hobby, an exercise, recreation, or social event. To some MA practice is a way to discover our true nature. Japanese Budo is more than fighting fair and honorably. We train for the times when we are faced with intellectual as well as physical assault. 

Osu,

Sensei joe


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## Tony Dismukes

ykrhanshi said:


> Most of those I knew or practiced with are dead and gone, Phil Porter, Sig Kufferath, Tom Anguay, Ed Parker, Keiko Fukuda, Bud Estes, and Kobun Chino to name a few. Some I lost track of like Henry Aragon, Mitch Otta, Sgt. Tembler and many others. Some may have been lost in the Vietnam War, since we did have a draft in effect. We did not see the need to keep records of training, and we did not follow the tradition of passing on a scroll listing generations of teachers and students. The politics of martial arts organizations in the U. S. seems to have begun around 1945 when Japanese Americans were reestablishing their cultural community activities. In 1948 some non Asian Americans still looked at Japanese Americans with suspicion. Many families would not allow their children to participate in anything connected with Japanese culture. Americans in Hawaii and California created schools for martial arts that were not part of the Japanese community, but followed the same training regimen. As prejudice and suspicions wore down, American MA clubs and schools were invited to join the Japanese organizations. Some did and some preferred to remain independent. For those of us who remained independent due to our teachers operating a floating dojo, or being anti organization, when we joined an organized martial arts association we produced whatever documentation we could and were evaluated and/or tested. Having satisfied the examiner that we qualified for a certificate of rank, the certificate for that organization was issued. As Americans we don't feel a need to trace our lineage back to Siddhartha Gautama, but some make an impressive try. Academic, historical data means little in a combat situation. Anyone in a free society may write a document that will have value to some and be just a piece of paper to others. The true test of MA skill is in combat, and knowledge is in teaching. No one is required to justify him or her self to any individual or organization, unless seeking recognition. To most the study of martial arts is a hobby, an exercise, recreation, or social event. To some MA practice is a way to discover our true nature. Japanese Budo is more than fighting fair and honorably. We train for the times when we are faced with intellectual as well as physical assault.
> 
> Osu,
> 
> Sensei joe


Hi Joe! Welcome to MartialTalk and thanks for clarifying that you are the person whose bio was being presented. The use of the third person in your original post was somewhat confusing.

I don't think most people here care about whether you have paperwork documenting your lineage through past generations. However if you're going to make a point of emphasizing the ranks you hold ...



ykrhanshi said:


> Judo Hachidan (8th degree) 04/14/1984
> 
> Jujitsu Kudan (9th degree) 12/11/2005
> 
> Karate Kudan (9th degree) 11/12/2005



... then some people will be curious as to what those ranks indicate. As you know, a given rank can mean very different things depending on what art, organization, and instructor issued it.

Talking about exactly what arts you've studied is also a good conversation starter. As you also know, there are some pretty huge differences between different systems of karate and between different systems of jujutsu. Judo is more standardized, although you can find some variation out there.

If you've been training for 59 years, I'm sure you have lots of good stories to tell about what you've experienced and the people you've met along the way. I hope you'll jump in to some of the other threads and join the conversations.


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## ykrhanshi

Flying Crane said:


> Yes, this is all true.  I was not aware of a bachelors in law in any capacity.  I have never heard of it before.  I'll ask my wife about it, see if she knows the history.



I read the documents again and one says "Bachelor of Science in Law", the other says "Juris Doctor". These are what were issued and were valid at the time. 
I believe Mr. Narkin moved to Oregon after loosing his California license. 
As I recall there were two other law degrees one might earn, namely the LLM and PhD.


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## Flying Crane

ykrhanshi said:


> I read the documents again and one says "Bachelor of Science in Law", the other says "Juris Doctor". These are what were issued and were valid at the time.
> I believe Mr. Narkin moved to Oregon after loosing his California license.
> As I recall there were two other law degrees one might earn, namely the LLM and PhD.


Fair enough.

  And it may be that the LLM is the law degree equivalent of a Ph.d.  I don't believe they are two different degrees.  People who get this degree tend to go into academia and research.


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## Tony Dismukes

Given the background of Saratoga University, I don't think I'll be consulting with Mr. Salazar for legal advice. That said, this is MartialTalk, not LegalTalk, so hopefully he will join in on some of the martial arts related discussions here.


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## Flying Crane

ykrhanshi said:


> 4.Having lawyers in the family isn't the same as reading thousands of words from hundreds of precedent setting cases.
> 
> Sensei Joe


My comment was more to let you know that I am familiar with the educational and training processes of becoming an attorney.   While I am not an attorney myself, I have worked for the last 22 or so years in the legal industry as case clerk, legal assistant, and third-party issues manager.  I have worked with many attorneys and government agents along the way, and feel confident that I have a stronger level of comfort with legal processes, documents, language and procedures than most people.  

For what it's worth.

If you never became a practicing attorney, there is nothing wrong with that.  An education in law is still a very valuable thing and can be useful in lots of other fields of employment.


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## ykrhanshi

Flying Crane said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> And it may be that the LLM is the law degree equivalent of a Ph.d.  I don't believe they are two different degrees.  People who get this degree tend to go into academia and research.


The difference is the LLM is the Master of Latin Law and the PhD is the Doctorate. 

The value of legal information and theory for us in the MA is defining the limits of self defense and security techniques we can apply without crossing the line of criminality. I have had some teachers who did not know those limits!


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## ykrhanshi

Tony Dismukes said:


> Given the background of Saratoga University, I don't think I'll be consulting with Mr. Salazar for legal advice. That said, this is MartialTalk, not LegalTalk, so hopefully he will join in on some of the martial arts related discussions here.


Legal advice cannot be given by a person who is registered with the California Law Bar as a law student. 
Even I am not sure about the now defunct university, but as with any study, the student usually teaches himself what the teacher leaves out. 
I did learn more about hands-on take down and control limits in POST (Police Officer Standard Training) and PART (Professional Assault Response Training), for when common sense advice didn't work.


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## Flying Crane

ykrhanshi said:


> The difference is the LLM is the Master of Latin Law and the PhD is the Doctorate.
> 
> The value of legal information and theory for us in the MA is defining the limits of self defense and security techniques we can apply without crossing the line of criminality. I have had some teachers who did not know those limits!


I would say that a whole lot of what was taught in the kenpo that I learned, does not recognize such limits.  It tends to be presented in a moral vacuum, left for the student to decide.

Perhaps for some people that can be appropriate.  For others, well, they run with scissors...


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## Flying Crane

ykrhanshi said:


> Legal advice cannot be given by a person who is registered with the California Law Bar as a law student.
> Even I am not sure about the now defunct university, but as with any study, the student usually teaches himself what the teacher leaves out.
> I did learn more about hands-on take down and control limits in POST (Police Officer Standard Training) and PART (Professional Assault Response Training), for when common sense advice didn't work.


I don't believe one registers with the state bar as a law student.  One is a member of the bar upon passing the bar exam, and is at that moment authorized to practice law.  As a law student, I do not believe there is a formal connection yet.


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