# kenpo knives



## clapping_tiger

In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.  I have applied some of my techniques with a knife in each hand but I am interested in learning more.  I was wondering if anybody has any more information on this or can point me in the right direction.  I saw that Larry Tatum has a video set out, does anyone know if it is any good?  I have never met or seen Larry Tatum move but I heard his videos are decent.


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## ikenpo

> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> 
> *In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.  I have applied some of my techniques with a knife in each hand but I am interested in learning more.  I was wondering if anybody has any more information on this or can point me in the right direction.  I saw that Larry Tatum has a video set out, does anyone know if it is any good?  I have never met or seen Larry Tatum move but I heard his videos are decent. *



Mr. Tatum's form 8 tapes are good they show a lot of kenpo applied concepts. Dr. LaTourrette's knife fighting book is always a favorite. He has about 20 kenpo techniques that he's applied the knife to. I definitely recommend it. 

You might also look into some tapes outside of Kenpo (a cardinal sin I know). James Keating, Kelly Worden and Ron Balicki are three that come to mind. 

Regards, jb:asian:


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## brianhunter

a good knife fighter is more dangerous then an idiot with a gun!


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> 
> *In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.   *



The original 'kenpo knife' (now called the 'kenpo 1') was created by Gil Hibben and presented to Ed Parker for his black belt thesis, Ed Parker Jr. own that now, but you can still buy manufactured ones.

More recently he created the 'kenpo 2' knife, which some people like more and some less. Personally, I think the kenpo 2 looks better and am somewhat lusting after one (I collect knives, so being into kenpo as well that's sort of the ultimate one) but living on my little island instead of your really big one it'd cost me more than a poor student can afford:

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/products/manu/hibben/uc1168.html

£110 there, where as you lot can get one for $80 (about half the price) 

Ian.


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## Les

> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> 
> *In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.*



Personally, I had no interest in knife fighting, and in a conversation with Mr Paul Mills, I told him so.

He said, "Les, are you interested in being able to defend yourself against a knife attack?"  Of course, I told him I was. "Well then," he said, "dont you think it's important to know what a knife is capable of?"

That opened my eyes, and I began to study the AKKI Knife curriculum. Now I'm hooked, I've learnt so much, and it all relates to empty hand, and club work.

Call Mr Mills and ask him about knife work, you'll find his number on the AKKI website, www.akki.com he'll be more than willing to talk to you about it.

Hope this helps,

Les


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## ikenpo

> _Originally posted by Les _
> 
> *
> 
> Personally, I had no interest in knife fighting, and in a conversation with Mr Paul Mills, I told him so.
> 
> He said, "Les, are you interested in being able to defend yourself against a knife attack?"  Of course, I told him I was. "Well then," he said, "dont you think it's important to know what a knife is capable of?"
> 
> That opened my eyes, and I began to study the AKKI Knife curriculum. Now I'm hooked, I've learnt so much, and it all relates to empty hand, and club work.
> 
> Call Mr Mills and ask him about knife work, you'll find his number on the AKKI website, www.akki.com he'll be more than willing to talk to you about it.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Les *



Les,

Do people carry a lot of knives in the UK? What do you find to be the biggest difference when you train here in the US vs in the UK? In terms of attitudes, physical skills, commitment, etc...

Just curious, jb:asian:


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *
> Do people carry a lot of knives in the UK? *



We can't get away with much, the laws are VERY tight indeed. Recently, locking knives were decreed in the House of Lords to be the same as a fixed blade knife as well, restricting what you can carry to basically being a very small, folding pen knife.

However, as to whether people /do/ carry them, in an illegal sense, yes they do. There are a lot of stabbings in night clubs and such forth, and a lot of gangs will have them as their weapons as opposed to guns, since there really isn't a gun culture here at all.

A summary of British knife law can be found here:

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

Ian.


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## Les

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *
> 
> Les,
> 
> Do people carry a lot of knives in the UK?
> 
> Jason, curiously, statistics show that the most common weapon used in a mugging in this courtry is actually a screwdriver.
> 
> Whatever the weapon, 3cm ( 1.4 inches) of "blade" is enough to penetrate the ribcage, and 4cm ( 1.6 inches) allows for penetration of the heart. (Don't forget the lungs, spleen, kidneys etc)
> 
> Firearms laws in this country are very strict, but you can buy a knife anywhere. Some 12 year olds are carrying them.
> 
> It's not surprising then, that in the UK, you are three times more likely to be stabbed that shot.
> 
> In the UK 7 in 20 killings in the UK involve an edged weapon.
> 
> Here's the bottom line: 30% of individuals will die from an edged weapon attack, compared to only 10% of shooting victims.
> 
> Another favorite in this country, is to break a glass, and stick it into someone.
> 
> In case you didn't guess, I teach this stuff for a living, and Kenpo's just a hobby.
> 
> Les*


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## satans.barber

> *
> Another favorite in this country, is to break a glass, and stick it into someone.
> *



Up there as well Les? We seem to be getting that a lot in Leeds at the moment, it's terrible. I seem to hear about someone getting 'glassed' at least every other week, not just attacked with broken glasses but actually having them smashed over their heads or faces. People don't seem to realise how much damage they can do, it's all a big game to them.

And people laugh at you for learning to defend yourself.

Ian.


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## Les

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *
> 
> I seem to hear about someone getting 'glassed' at least every other week, not just attacked with broken glasses but actually having them smashed over their heads or faces. People don't seem to realise how much damage they can do, it's all a big game to them.
> 
> And people laugh at you for learning to defend yourself.
> 
> Ian. *



As Mr Parker used to say; "Whatever the attitude, so is the response"


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## clapping_tiger

every bit is appreciated.  I do have a video on solo knife command and mastery by W. Hock Hochheim.  It does a decent job at teaching you solo drills on basic knife movements and concepts.  You do the drills standing, kneeling and in various positions on the ground.  I do want to move on to kenpo knife forms, and apply kenpo concepts to knife combat.  Thanks to everyone for their help. I assure you I will look into all these tips.

And like a said before I have started to apply some of my techniques with 2 knifes.  Hey, it's a start.  It looks a little rough but that is what we practice for.  Right?  I have also built a Burmese War Post to get used to attacking with full power and intensity.  It was weird doing this in my back yard for the first time.  I brought out my Sticks, and one knife and went to work.  There were some guys across the street doing some roofing.  When I took a break I noticed that they were all standing there watching me.  I have done demos, and other things in front of people before, but I felt weird doing this in my neighbothood outside.


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## Klondike93

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> 
> *
> 
> The original 'kenpo knife' (now called the 'kenpo 1') was created by Gil Hibben and presented to Ed Parker for his black belt thesis, Ed Parker Jr. own that now, but you can still buy manufactured ones.
> 
> More recently he created the 'kenpo 2' knife, which some people like more and some less. Personally, I think the kenpo 2 looks better and am somewhat lusting after one (I collect knives, so being into kenpo as well that's sort of the ultimate one) but living on my little island instead of your really big one it'd cost me more than a poor student can afford:
> 
> £110 there, where as you lot can get one for $80 (about half the price)
> 
> Ian. *



I finally got a kenpo 1 knife and really like it. Now to start playing with it. I guess I'll just start at the yellow techniques and go from there. 


:asian:


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## Seig

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> 
> *a good knife fighter is more dangerous then an idiot with a gun! *


All idiots are dangerous


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## Stick Dummy

As an "outsider" I am a bit curious........

 Do Kempo stylists utilize a conventional grip, or reverse grip when utilizing a knife??

Cuts or Thrust type techniques?

Seig - Maybe you can illustrate this to me one day since I occassionally get out into your neck of the woods, so to speak.


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## Goldendragon7

We use both the conventional and reverse grip depending up on the situation.......  conventional is the preferred however due to it's greater range and maneuverability.

As to methods of execution.. there are several... slicing, glancing, striking, thrusting, & snaking just to name a few.....

We use many terms borrowed from the different types of cuts in a butcher shop.

tenderizing.... 
slicing.....
trimming......

:asian:


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## Stick Dummy

GoldenDragon7,

Thank You - Both for the reply, and answer to my usual inane questions.


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *We use both the conventional and reverse grip depending up on the situation.......  conventional is the preferred however due to it's greater range and maneuverability.
> 
> As to methods of execution.. there are several... slicing, glancing, striking, thrusting, & snaking just to name a few.....
> *



That's odd, _all_ of the knife work that I've done (not too much though) has been reverse grip, I've not held it conventionally once.

I've done quite a lot of defenses agaist thrusts (with a club of knife), for instance where you cut accross the attacker's forarm with the blade and then strike into the throaght with the pommel as you move behind them, that's quite a nifty one.

Also, with the reverse grip you can use the hooking and trapping motions in a similar way to the moves using the last few inches of the kenpo sticks below the hand, which is nice.

Ian.


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## Goldendragon7

however, Mr. Parker always uses the knife to its greatest advantage which in his opinion was the conventinel grip.  That was his preference - thats all.  there is a time and place for everything.



:asian:


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *however, Mr. Parker always uses the knife to its greatest advantage which in his opinion was the conventinel grip.  That was his preference - thats all.  there is a time and place for everything.*



Well, I never got to see the guy demonstrate it, I assume you did, so you'd know from first hand what he was capable of with one holding it whichever way he pleased!

Maybe they'll scrape some footage together of him using one for these DVDs, I've never seen Ed. Parker in any videos at all, not even a clip, so I'd love to get my hands on them. I'm sceptical about the availability though...

Damn, got me thinking about that Kenpo 2 knife again now! I'm supposed to be coming to the states in September for a break, I though I could buy one at reduced American price if I saw one instead of bloated British one, and put it in my case on the way home, but no doubt they'd seize it at customs and I'd've wasted my money 

Ian.


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## Goldendragon7

Buy one from the original maker Gil Hibben..... and have it shipped........

http://users.ntr.net/~gil_hibben/index.html

:asian:


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Buy one from the original maker Gil Hibben..... and have it shipped........
> 
> http://users.ntr.net/~gil_hibben/index.html
> 
> :asian: *



You don't seem to be able to buy them on there, also "Last modified: 06 March 1998" makes me think he's not all that commited to Internet sales!

I did look at shipping one from America but the shipping costs were $60, almost the price of the knife again. Also, if the company didn't mark it used goods as I asked British Customs would charge me about another £20 (nearly $40) in import tax, which would make it the same price if not as dear as just ordering one in the UK.

I'm buggered either way really 

Ian.


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## Goldendragon7

maybe the site is just not updated or there is another one that is more current..... at any rate email him and ask for a catalogue or current site and prices for an enthuiastic student .

:asian:


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## Michael Billings

I love the Kenpo II knife right now.  I had a pair of training blades made at Edges 2, which are not sharp and have a similar feel, and shape.  You can find the Edges 2 link on my website under the links page.  It is closer to the bottom of that page than the top.  These are very nice to train with and allow you the luxury of not cutting up the inside of your arms when you first start learning.

UKS - Texas 

-Michael


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## Michael Billings

... on there to get Gil Hibbon knives from "The KnifeCenter", but I bet you would spell it KnifeCentre.  You should be able to find a Parker I, they are still available, but I do not run across the Parker II nearly as often.

-Michael


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> *I love the Kenpo II knife right now.  I had a pair of training blades made at Edges 2, which are not sharp and have a similar feel, and shape.  You can find the Edges 2 link on my website under the links page.  It is closer to the bottom of that page than the top.  These are very nice to train with and allow you the luxury of not cutting up the inside of your arms when you first start learning.
> *



3 or 4 strips of electrical tape down the blade can serve the same purpose as well if people can't afford to buy specially blunted ones, although it's not as safe obviously.

Ian.


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## phoenix

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> 
> We use many terms borrowed from the different types of cuts in a butcher shop.
> 
> tenderizing....
> slicing.....
> trimming......
> 
> 
> Don't forget my favorite.... "Filleting"
> 
> Sean


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## Rob_Broad

I LOVE MY KENPO 1 KNIFE 

It truly is a nice nice knife, and I can't wait to get my Kenpo 2 Knife


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## Goldendragon7

> _Originally posted by phoenix _
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by Goldendragon7 Don't forget my favorite.... "Filleting"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Hey, I don't want to give away the farm all the time......
> 
> LOL
> :asian:


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## Self_Destruct

If you're serious about learning the Kenpo knife you should contact Mr. Mike Pick or someone in the UKF. Not to say the other people mentioned aren't any good...but Mr. Pick was Parkers top knife student and has since taken it to the next level. Check out www.ukfkenpo.com


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by clapping_tiger _
> 
> *In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.  I have applied some of my techniques with a knife in each hand but I am interested in learning more.  I was wondering if anybody has any more information on this or can point me in the right direction.  I saw that Larry Tatum has a video set out, does anyone know if it is any good?  I have never met or seen Larry Tatum move but I heard his videos are decent. *



The upcoming Escrima-Kenpo Summer Camp, in Buffalo, NY will feature "Kenpo Joe" Rebelo, from New Bedford, MA who will teaching Kenpo Knife - Single and Double Blades.  In addition, I will be offering a seminar at the same camp on the Gunting Knife.  My background is in Tracy System Kenpo, Modern arnis and Pancipanci Eskrima.  The use of the knife is a part of the training  within the FMAs. 

The following is information about the camp and the presenters: 

The Escrrima - Kenpo Summer Camp is open to any and all interested people without regard for experience or style. We are offering an open training opportunity that will allow everyone to see and experience how Escrima/ Arnis and Kenpo/Kempo can and in some cases have been blended to establish a seamless art that can be taught under either name.

Punong Guro TOM BOLDEN
PG Bolden has nearly 40 years of training experience in Pancipanci Eskrima, CHA-3 Kenpo and Modern Arnis as his primary arts. He was awarded the title of "Senior Master" at the Kenpo Gathering of Eagles, in 2001. He is the Senior Teacher of the Pancipanci System of Eskrima, a family art that he learned directly from Master Florintino Pancipanci, as a closed door student, in Hawaii, during the 1960's and 70's.  He will cover the transitions/translations of single stick self defense applications to empty hand applications and the connections between Hawaiian based Eskrima and CHA-3 Kenpo.  If asked, i am sure that he will add knife aspects to his presentations.

Shihan JOSEPH (Kenpo Joe) REBELLO
Joe Rebello, is an established recognized Kenpo player in New England and trained under the late GM Ed Parker on several ocassions and he has nearly 25 years of experience in the art plus a background in several Filipino Arts.  He will present the American Kenpo Single and Double Knife tactics for both defensive and counter-attacking modalities.

Shihan ERNEST McPEEK
Tracy System Kenpo & Kenpo Goshin Jitsu;
Will cover the traditional Kenpo-Jiu-jitsu interplay as taught in Hawaii and then modified on the mainland in the 1960's, first to Parker and later Tracy Kenpo.  Shihan Ernie McPeek, is the senior Kenpo player in Western New York and has been training for about 35 years. He has both Judo and Jiu-jitsu training as well. He is the senior instructor and highest ranking Kenpo practicioner in the Western NY area. He is the owner-operator of 2 very successful schools (Lockport & Batavia, NY). He is also the represntative of the Tracy Organization within the area. 

Sensei DAWUD MUHAMMAD 
A Kenpo, Modern Arnis and Jiu-jitsu instructor from Philadelphia, will be teaching a camp session on the blending of Kenpo and Jiu-jitsu. Sensei Muhammad, has trained in both the Parker and Tracy Systems of Kenpo and offers us a different perspective on the art because of the dual training background. He also holds an Advanced instructor Certificate frorm the late, Professor Remy Presas, in Modern Arnis. 

Dr. JEROME BARBER
Paradigm Escrima-Kenpo & International Modern Arnis;
I will present a seminar session on the Largo Mano or long range single stick fighting. If time allows I will also add a segment on the stick and dagger combination from the largo mano perspective. I will also teach a segment on the use of 'Hand Tools", particularly the Palm/Pocket Stick and Gunting Knife, plus empty hand self defense that incorperates upper and lower body un-balancing tactics.

I am the neophyte within the group, having trained for only 23 years; my background is in Tracy System Kenpo and Modern Arnis - I was cross trained in both from white belt through 3rd degree Black Belt, under Sensei Don Zanghi, Shihan McPeek and the late Professor Presas. I am also the only Modern Arnis Certified Advanced Instructor, to receive *written* appoval for a college curriculum from Professor Presas. He signed off on my program in April, 1989. My college instructional program has been operational since 1987. 

The training site will be at Erie Community College - North Campus Gymnasium, 6205 Main Street, Williamsville, NY 
(a suburb of Buffalo, NY). 

The training sessions will be held at 9:30am to 12:30pm and 2pm to 5pm on both days. There will be 2 instructors on the floor during each of sessions. 

Cost: $175 paid before July 11 **
$200 payable at the Door
$100 for a Single Day Pass 
Group Rates Availible on Request 

**Early Bird Special Discount**
$50 deposit before July 1, pay a balance of $100 at the door 
for both days admission. 

For more camp information, Group Rates and/or Accomodations information contact me directly via e-mail at:
<escrima_kenpo@hotmail.com> 

or by surface mail:
Dr. Jerome Barber
Suite 230, 5999 South Park Avenue
Hamburg, NY 14075 

I am looking forward to meeting some of you at this camp. 

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## Chris from CT

I was at our supplier's shop today and I had in my hand a Kenpo 2.  It was beautiful.  It just went from my "Want List" onto my "I Gosta Have It List"!  :jedi1: 

Take care


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## Goldendragon7

I'll bet it feels nice.
:asian:


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## Seig

Wouldn't that depend on which side of the blade you are on?


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## Goldendragon7

it depends upon which way you slice it!


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## Seig

You realize, of course, that after looking at the pics of all the knives you have been gracious enough to post pictures of for us, that I hate you.


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## Klondike93

I like the Kenpo 1 design more than the Kenpo 2 design, but I still want to get a Kenpo 2 knife.

Someone mentioned practicing the self defense techniques with 1 or 2 knives instead of the hand strikes. Is this pretty good practice for learning to handle a knife?



:asian:


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## Wes Idol

Parker did a great deal of his knife exploration with Pick.  Edmund Jr. has told me this...Parker told Bryan Hawkins this.  By no means does the sun rise and set on any one human, but in regards to Kenp Knife strategies Mike Pick is an excellent source.  My years of exposure to Pick is time I feel very grateful for.

As for other experiences, get after it!  I've done time with Filipino players and that exposure has benefited my training.  There are certainly other Kenpo knifers, Paul Mills for example, that might serve you well to check out.  Lastly, I have been in physical mixes wtih knives...never assume someone will just fall down because you cut them.

Respectfully, 

WI, HI
UKS


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## Goldendragon7

> _Originally posted by Wes Idol _*
> Ed Parker did a great deal of his knife exploration with Pick.  In regards to Kenp Knife strategies Mike Pick is an excellent source.
> 
> As for other experiences, get after it!  There are certainly other Kenpo knifers, that might serve you well to check out.
> *



I agree that Mike Pick is an excellent source on Kenpo knife fighting.  

:asian:


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## satans.barber

While we're on the subject of kenpo knives, does anyknow know why Hibben's Kenpo 2 knife was renamed the Alaskan Survival Knife?

I was wondering if it was a move on Mr. Hibben's part to do with its suitability for Kenpo, or a move by United Cutlery to make it appeal to a wider range of buyers?

Ian.


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## Rob_Broad

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *While we're on the subject of kenpo knives, does anyknow know why Hibben's Kenpo 2 knife was renamed the Alaskan Survival Knife?
> 
> I was wondering if it was a move on Mr. Hibben's part to do with its suitability for Kenpo, or a move by United Cutlery to make it appeal to a wider range of buyers?
> 
> Ian. *


I always thought they were 2 seperate knives with similar appearances.


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> *I always thought they were 2 seperate knives with similar appearances. *



Nope, if you go to hibbenknives.com (Mr. Hibben's spanky new homepage) and click on 'Martial Arts', next to the Kenpo 2 it says 'Alaskan Survival (Previously Known as the Kenpo II)'...

Ian.


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## XtremeJ_AKKI

Paul Mills has designed several combat knives for use in Kenpo application ( not to mention, one HELL of a knife and club curriculm, based on the AKKI Universal Weapons concept ).

 The Mills Back-Up Knife:


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## Greggers69

My instructor just won a knife simular to that at the seminars in Vegas.:asian:


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## XtremeJ_AKKI

> _Originally posted by Greggers69 _
> *My instructor just won a knife simular to that at the seminars in Vegas.:asian: *



 I'm jealous! :soapbox:

 ( BTW, who is your instructor? You out in Cali? )


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by XtremeJ_AKKI _
> *Paul Mills has designed several combat knives for use in Kenpo application ( not to mention, one HELL of a knife and club curriculm, based on the AKKI Universal Weapons concept ).
> 
> The Mills Back-Up Knife:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I like those Mills knives a lot, but they're a bit too pricey for my pocket (especially the $275 one!), are they hand made or something?

Ian.


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## Kenpo Yahoo

Yeah, all of Mr. Mills' knives are hand made using ats-34 or better steel.  The knife is a bit pricey, but it's excellent quality.  I'm still able to shave my arm with the blade ( I've never had a knife that could do that).  

I can't wait to get one of the new folding fighters.  Just like all the others, the folder has a belly to facilitate cutting and half of the back portion of the blade is sharpened to allow back cutting and surgical trapping.  It's got a wicked release to allow for quick draw type movements.  This means that you can draw, flip the blade out and slide it into your target in one fluid motion.  Mr. Mills likes to add these little characteristics to the knives he has made, I guess it's a throw back to his champion quickdraw days.  
Anyway, what does one of these babies cost
Price Tag:  $475.00 US 

It may be a little while before I can swing it, but it will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine.


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## Kenpo Yahoo

Here is a picture of a few of the folders.  Since it's a hand made knife you can choose a few custom features.  Notice the different thumb ramps


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## Kenpo Yahoo

OOps I just checked back.  It's $400.00 US or $425.00 for the folder with the carbon fiber handle.  Any of the features, including the design that is on the spine of the blade can be mixed and matched as you like.  One of the benefits of handmade custom knives.


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## Goldendragon7

> _Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo _*
> Here is a picture of a few of the folders.  Since it's a hand made knife you can choose a few custom features.
> *



All's I can say is that he does great work!!  I love the designs.  Who actually makes them for him?

:samurai:


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## Kenpo Yahoo

Mr. Mills would be able to tell you better than I could.


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## M F

Mr. Mills knives(at least the ones pictured) are made by Kevin Kimsey.  He has won numerous awards for his knives at the Blade Show.  This is the largest knife show in the world, hosted by the largest knife publication.  His website is here, www.rafterkk.com .  Mr. Mills has also had some knives made by Daryl Hibben.  I've got one of those.


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## Kenpo Yahoo

Hey MF is the knife you are talking about the new CLAW?  That looks pretty wicked.

I'll try to send you some of those pics I was talking about this weekend


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## M F

Nope, not The Claw.  I got one of The Sharks a few camps ago.  Double edged clip-point blade, full guard.  I'll see if I've got a pic of it around here somehwere.  I've got some pics from the camp too.  Most came out pretty dark, but I think I have a few good ones.  I'll send you a few of those.


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## Aaron

Where exactly does knife fighting come into the Kenpo system?  Are there sets or forms with the knife at more advanced belts?

I keep hearing about it but I've yet to see it.....


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## Wes Idol

Back in the late 60's, early 70's, some students of Parker strongly invited him to do something with knives...soon enough, Form 8 (which was form 7, or Twin Dagger Set was created).  The applications in this form are not anything that Parker stayed with (i.e. switching the grip during application).

Years later, Parker did a lot of Knife work with his student Mike Pick.  Arguably there are two forms that Pick helped Parker put together.  As many will argue the existence of such material, I find it interesting that he is about the only one I've seen that doesn't go to other arts for Knife training.

Most of this training doesn't happen until you are a 3rd degree black belt.

Respectfully, 

WI, HI
UKS


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## Kenpo Yahoo

Hey Aaron, 

Well unfortunately there are a number of kenpo "camps" that have nothing in common except perhaps for the name kenpo.  A couple of years after Mr. Parkers death Mr. Mills, to make a long story short, left the IKKA to form the AKKI.  He has since revised, altered, and created the curriculum that the AKKI uses today.  Along with this, he and the board have introduced the AKKI Universal weapons system.  

The weapons that this system focuses on are the knife and the club.  Each weapon has 3 levels of proficiency, however at this time the second and third levels are in the process of being completed.  This is not to say that material from these levels is  not being taught, rather Mr. Mills just hasn't decided to formalize it yet.  You know how people get when you print things in a manual.  It suddenly becomes the unchanging gospel, whether it's the best way to do something or not.  

The knife work, while incredibly similiar to some of the empty hand material, requires some advanced training in order to maximize it's effectiveness without being a danger to yourself.  
I have seen many people who, with a weapon, proved to be more dangerous to themselves than any would-be attacker.

The good thing about a Universal Weapons System, is that the  stick work uses a number of the same principles found in both the empty hand and knife material, but due to the weapon's physical form and mass, an advanced understanding of the weapon is necessary and thus advanced training is also required.

Neither of the two weapons are taught at specified belt levels, rather the respective curriculums are introduced to the student, usually, no sooner than orange.  By starting so soon, this gives the student a chance to develop corresponding skills as they move through the art.  I have honestly found that principles taught in the knife and club curriculums have helped me understand and develop my body mechanics, stances, and hand coordination in a way that I had been overlooking in my empty hand material.

Both curriculums are outstanding, sometimes quite gruesome, extremely effective, and completely kenpo based.  While there are some similiarities to arts like Kali and Arnis, trying to compare the two would be like comparing wrestling to BJJ.  Sure there are similiar principles and movemets involved but they are obviously seperate entities, each with their own strengths.

I can only try and describe what is happening from the AKKI perspective, I'm not completely sure what the status of weapons training is in other associations.  For information on other Assoc.'s, you would need to ask their students.  

I hope this was at least informative.


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## Klondike93

> Most of this training doesn't happen until you are a 3rd degree black belt.



Why is that? Is it too much for a blue or green belt to handle? (not meant as smartass sounding as it looks either)


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _*
> Why is that? Is it too much for a blue or green belt to handle?
> :asian:
> *



Blue Belts and green belts not only come in colors but also a wide range of ages.  Adults can handle this type of training much better than many 10 year olds and many parents would be the first to agree.

In American Kenpo Mr. Parker loved the knife and believed that it fit well with the base of the System (used close in).  For that reason, he reserved our knifework for the more advanced student, hopefully due to more maturity of the student and the danger of the bladed weapon.  

Other types of weapon training has been utilized such as the chucks, or sai, kama or others but the "Kenpo Knife Work" has been pretty much reserved for the advanced student.  This of course is not the standard today because different associations have different guidelines so this can be very different today.

:asian:


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## Klondike93

Ahhhh, very good oh Goldenone     That makes sense, wasn't looking at it from that angle.


:asian:


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## Aaron

Thank you all for answering my question!

Aaron


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## KenpoDragon

My old instructor used to call it filleting (fill-ay-ing) the fish.You have to clean it before you can cook it. A weapon is an extension of the arm,whether it be a knife or a stick.


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## kenpo_cory

My instructor obtained his 5th black from Mick Pick and teaches the principles and concepts of using the knife starting at 2nd brown, I must say it's a very impressive weapon. I also wanted to ask if anyone here is familiar with the type of metal used to make the Kenpo 2 knife. The reason I'm asking is because out of curiosity I took my Kenpo 2 knife to a shop to ask them how much I could get from it if I sold it (I would never ever ever do this by the way) and he told me the metal was not very good quality and I wouldn't get much. Anyone familiar enough with the knife to give me some feedback on that? Cause personally I was very disappointed.


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## M F

Most everything made by United Cutlery, including the Kenpo2, has 420J2 blade steel.  It is an inexpensive steel that is easy to machine and therefor easy to produce mass quantities of knives.  420J2 is a pretty low end steel from a users standpoint.  It is pretty soft compared to other common blade steels and doesn't hold an edge well comparatively.  It is normally used on knives and swords used for display purposes.


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## Michael Billings

That is disappointing to me.  I had hoped for better, not that the blade is a "carry" one, but I still would like the quality to have been there.  I understand for all the "fantasy" blades designed by Gil Hibbon, they will never really see use.  I suppose this is not a "working" knife either, but I like the design and heft of the Kenpo II.  

How about the original knife?  I was given mine by my students about 7 years ago.  Is the steel the same?

Thanks,
-Michael


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## M F

Mr. Billings,
What do you mean when you say "the original knife"?  Do you mean a hand-made Hibben original, or possibly the Kenpo I knife?  If it is a hand-made it is definitely not 420j2, but if it is a United Cutlery product, I would guess that it is 420.  I can't say for sure because I have never seen the specs on the Kenpo I.  Don't get me wrong here.  420J2, while not the best steel, has been used for a long time, and many people are happy with it's performance.


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## Michael Billings

It is definitly not a hand made Hibbon, although it is a signed and numbered copy.  I am not sure if it is a United Cutlary, but I suspect it is.  Nonetheless, the value is in the link to Mr. Parker and the fact My Student's presented it to me for a birthday present the 1st year my Austin school was open.

Oss and Thanks,
-Michael


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## clapping_tiger

Has anyone here seen the new Kenpo Claw 2? I like the look of it and plan to buy one after it's release. It seems to have a lot of possibilities. I like the Karambit (??SP??) influence. I have seen them for advanced sales on Ebay. If you put in a search for "Hibben Claw" it should pop up. Anyone have any thoughts on this knife.


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## teej

Concerning the Hibben Kenpo knives,

You can contact Gil Hibben and have a custom knife made by him personally. (not a mass produced model from United)

He will get a mold of your hand in some kind of clay, and make the handle of your knife fitted to your hand. Very personal don't you think.

I have seen a few of these some of my friends have. He also custom makes a slightly smaller version of the Kenpo 1, (this one is not mass produced that I know of). I liked this one a lot. A little more practical, lighter because it is smaller. And my friends hand is similar to mine, so it fit my hand nicely. ( I was there when Gil delivered it to my friend)

FYI, yours in Kenpo,
Teej


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## Goldendragon7

Rosewood handles....... left and right grips.  {scabbards signed personally by Mr. Parker}


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## satans.barber

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *left and right grips. *



Cool, you can chop carrots with both hands at once! :rofl: 

Ian.


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## teej

Here is the phone number to Gil Hibben's shop in KY.

So for info on ordering a Custom Kenpo knife you can call Gil @

(502)222-1397


Teej


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## Goldendragon7

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *Cool, you can chop carrots with both hands at once! :rofl:
> 
> Ian. *



Geeze..... I never thought of that..... {use # 590}
:asian:


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## AIKIKENJITSU

clapping_tiger said:


> In another thread (the sticks) there was a little talk about the kenpo knives.  I have heard of this, but have never seen the knives used in kenpo by someone who had training.  I have applied some of my techniques with a knife in each hand but I am interested in learning more.  I was wondering if anybody has any more information on this or can point me in the right direction.  I saw that Larry Tatum has a video set out, does anyone know if it is any good?  I have never met or seen Larry Tatum move but I heard his videos are decent.


I  have been in Kenpo (Tracy and Ed Parker (American Kenpo) for forty some years. I have written numerous articles in martial art magazines. I can only tell you about me. I learned the double knife form for Kenpo years ago. since then, I have created by own single karambit techniques using Kenpo. The one thing I've done it research into many professional knife fighters books on "defense and blocking." From there I developed the blocking system I would use and then used the Kenpo empty hand techniques but with knives. I did change a little on the targets of the techniques I've used. The karambit I think, causes much more pain than a regular straight knife. You can also hook a joint and control your attacker.
Each must find his own way in the various areas of Kenpo. I hope you find yours. Study just parts  of Phillipino and Asian arts in knife fighting and add them to your Kenpo.
I think most do not practice much knife in Kenpo because the techniques are made for double knives and in real life, at the most we would be using one knife. 
Sifu
6th degree black


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