# When Would You Fight/Defend Yourself?



## MJS (Feb 23, 2009)

There've been a few threads on here about self defense and things of that nature, however, I wanted to hear from some of our Kenpo/Kempo/Kaju members on this subject. 

What type of situation would make you engage and fight with someone? 

What are your thoughts on talking your way out of a situation vs. defending yourself right away, even if a weapon was present?

So, in other words, a hypathetical situation....you're at the ATM, someone comes up, holding a knife, and demands money from you. Do you hand it over and then hope that the badguy leaves? Do you hand it over and only if the badguy makes a move towards you or another demand, then you act? Do you cherish your belongings and will do what you can to defend yourself?

This was just one example to help get the ball rolling.


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## Danjo (Feb 23, 2009)

MJS said:


> There've been a few threads on here about self defense and things of that nature, however, I wanted to hear from some of our Kenpo/Kempo/Kaju members on this subject.
> 
> What type of situation would make you engage and fight with someone?
> 
> ...


 
Is it my beer money? That's going to make a big difference.


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## MJS (Feb 23, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Is it my beer money? That's going to make a big difference.


 
Sure, its Friday night, you finished a long work week, and wanna kick back a few, so you take out some extra $$$ at the ATM.


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## Danjo (Feb 23, 2009)

Any time I feel that someone means me harm (or someone I'm with) then it's on like Donkey Kong.


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## bushidomartialarts (Feb 23, 2009)

These days, probably only to defend somebody with me who's not able to escape.

I don't see much purpose in fighting somebody when I can run, and I can outrun most bad guys.  On the other hand, my 8 year old can't outrun a grown man, nor can my mother or grandparents.  One of my best friends has limited mobility in his right leg.

I'd take somebody on to give them time to run, but otherwise I'd have to be cornered.


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## just2kicku (Feb 24, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Is it my beer money? That's going to make a big difference.



Alright, the line has to be drawn somewhere!  You DO NOT mess with a mans beer money! 

I am tired of people saying run or give up your stuff. But it would depend on the situation, are my wife and kid with me, will my actions hurt someone innocent? If I can answer no to these, then it's go time.


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## 14 Kempo (Feb 24, 2009)

Well, I've already talked myself out of a situation where a knife was on me ... everyone walked away without as much as a punch being thrown. The ultimate goal in any situation such as this is to survive. One thing I believe in is, there are winners and losers in sporting events, there are survivors in life situations. Survive the situation any way possible, if that means fighting, then so be it ... you'll most likely then need to win in court.

Make no mistake, I will do what is necessary in the given situation and deal with the courts afterwards, if needed. My attitude is this, I don't look like a victim and from some of the pics I've seen of some on this forum, neither do you. Criminals are looking for the easiest target, I don't project myself as one, if they come at me, they mean business and therefore, so do I. No submissions, no patty cake, if we go, we go ... I'll deal with the law later, survive, it's me or you ... guess who I'm rooting for.

... just my two cents


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## Spacedcrane (Feb 25, 2009)

If they have a weapon, then I'm not gonna screw around and toy with them.  Because they are basically threatening my life at that point.  If they are unarmed, I'll throw a quick front snap kick to the groin, back up and wait.  If they want to proceed after that, then I'll consider that they still have the intent for harm.  In which case, I'll stop playing around and end them.


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## RevIV (Feb 25, 2009)

I have always been a protector I guess, If i saw someone as early as elementary and middle scholl being bullied I stuck my nose where i did not need to.  just my nature.  Now later on when threats arrived and it was just me I would usually laugh and talk my way out of it.  It has always seemed for me that when there is someone else that I may have to watch out for I become more aggressive.  I guess I never really worried about myself because of my internal thoughts that I would make it out no matter what,  but I dont know about my friend so i would have to be there.


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## Hagakure (Feb 25, 2009)

I would, yes. When either myself or my loved ones were in danger of assault.

There was one occassion, many years ago, when I was in a pub sat in the corner with a mate, and my back to a group of lads and their girlfriends. I was 18, and they were the year below me at high school.

A guy with downs syndrome who was well known locally was in the pub, and had with him a pink, inflatable guitar. I'm not making this up by the way. He was pretending to play said guitar and making all sorts of guitar noises as he did so. I was only made aware of this, when a guy in the other group started shouting at me. Again, I was quietly chatting to my mate, who looked at me and said, "that guy over there's shouting at you". This other chappy effectively started accusing me of "laughing at my mate Gary" (the downs guy) which was horse***. 

Eventually, this loudmouth would not stop, claiming he was going to "batter me" etc etc. He then made a final mistake. He pointed to his friends down the other end of the pub who looked a right bunch of thugs, and said "I'm gonna get my mates involved in this". These guys were stood by the exit too, so I couldn't run, literally, the exit was blocked. I made an executive decision, after several minutes of trying to appease him, he'd not quietened down, and now the odds were about to get potentially worse. So, I flattened him. He was yap-yap-yapping away, so I shot to my feet, ran round the side of the table he was at, and BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!, hit him round his head and face a few times. I put him on the deck then I nodded to my mate, and we left. Just vanished. Proud of that? Not at all. Did the right thing? I believe so, yes. I had no valid way of knowing whether I'd end up having the bejesus kicked out of me, simply because this sub-human was trying to appear hard in front of his new girlfriend.

Even more unfortunately, this sub-human has now bred, meaning that his genes have been passed into another generation of humanity. Or should that be sub-humanity? *rubs chin, looks thoughtful...*


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## DavidCC (Feb 25, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Any time I feel that someone means me harm (or someone I'm with) then it's on like Donkey Kong.


 

You'd hit him with a barrel?


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## KempoGuy06 (Feb 25, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Any time I feel that someone means me harm (or someone I'm with) then it's on like Donkey Kong.


ditto

B


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## RevIV (Feb 25, 2009)

DavidCC said:


> You'd hit him with a barrel?


 
hahahahahhahahahaha


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## almost a ghost (Feb 25, 2009)

I've learned to concede and just say "Sorry, my bad" to those running their mouths and trying to escalate a situation (or "problem" as those hot heads say) that really isn't a situation. So far it hasn't failed me. 

I imagine if they were really looking for a fight they would of continued on eventually crossing the line from simple s***talking to threats. To me that's a clear definition of something is going to happen.

As far as being robbed with a weapon: If it's a knife or gun then I hope I have the sanity to give them want they want. If it's a stick/bat/broom handle, that's a completely different story


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## Danjo (Feb 25, 2009)

DavidCC said:


> You'd hit him with a barrel?


 
---sigh--- Cretin. It's called a KEG!


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## kenpo101 (Feb 25, 2009)

i need to ask a the question, 
why would someone kick them to the groin and then back up and see if that is enough?
if they are robbing you with a weapon- then kick their ***.
If you run, what if they catch up to you, are you going to run again??
i don't think i ever read anywhere that Grandmaster Ed Parker ran away.

just my thoughts


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## Danjo (Feb 25, 2009)

kenpo101 said:


> i need to ask a the question,
> why would someone kick them to the groin and then back up and see if that is enough?
> if they are robbing you with a weapon- then kick their ***.
> If you run, what if they catch up to you, are you going to run again??
> ...


 
Yeah, the groin kick is just the opener. If you're going that far, then go all the way.


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## Spacedcrane (Feb 25, 2009)

> If they are unarmed, I'll throw a quick front snap kick to the groin, back up and wait.


If they are armed, that's a completely different situation.  Of course I'll disable/end them at that point.


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## ackks10 (Feb 26, 2009)

could of, would of, should of, you don't know until it happens,sorry guys,


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## Danjo (Feb 26, 2009)

ackks10 said:


> could of, would of, should of, you don't know until it happens,sorry guys,


 
Sure. There's always going to be the live element that will determine your particular action at any given moment. I think this question has more to do with what our philosophical outlook is on when we would defend ourselves. Some of us have actually had to defend ourselves, and are also drawing on that. If you don't envision scenarios, then you make it more likely that you will fail when it hits the fan. Police and military have used scenario training for years to develop and hone the reflexes in preparation for the real deal. It works even if it's not the same as the real thing.


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## just2kicku (Feb 26, 2009)

ackks10 said:


> could of, would of, should of, you don't know until it happens,sorry guys,



Yes, you're right, even when it actually happens you'll think back and say "I should of or I could of". I can only draw on my training and experience to answer question like these.

  In a perfect world we wouldn't be asking ourselves these questions, but I have been in fights, I have had a knife pulled on me and even tho I was able to disarm the attacker, I got cut first. So no one who never been in a situation like that knows exactly what they'll do, but if you train for it you will have an idea of what you'll do.

  Like Danjo said the military trains and trains and until recently many soldiers never had to use what they trained for, but I would still trust them on the battle field. It's one thing to be battle tested and another to be battle ready. And that's what we train for, to be battle ready and able to adapt to a given situation. 

   That's why training like you would fight is so important to me.


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## 14 Kempo (Feb 26, 2009)

ackks10 said:


> could of, would of, should of, you don't know until it happens,sorry guys,


 
Yes, you are absolutely correct, however, there are many that would do just this (could of, would of, should of) after farting in a crowded room as well. 

All we can do is to prepare ourselves as much as possible for given situations. Not sure what other will say or what they believe, but for me, I am a firm believer in the idea that if you find yourself in a situation or position that you have never been in before, you may get brain freeze, if only for a millisecond. It doesn't take much time to get hit, cut or shot. A split second can mean your life, I'd rather take my chances having thought my way through a situation, rather than to wait until something happens. JMHO

But yes, one never knows ...


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## suicide (Feb 26, 2009)

back when i didnt know martial arts i would always get in fights and situations but now that i have trained and studied it just doesnt come my way anymore , not saying that it wont ever but its like i dont want to do something to someone that i might regret :jediduel:


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## jarrod (Feb 26, 2009)

i don't think you'll ever really know what you'd do until you're in one of those situations.  i'll be honest though & admit that it would depend on what kind of day i'm having.  i.e., am i having a really bad day, does life seem worth living, is that all of the money i have, those sort of things.  

jf


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## tellner (Feb 27, 2009)

The moment I thought it would be a good idea.

Like Napoleon said "I may lose a battle. But I will never lose a minute."


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## jarrod (Feb 27, 2009)

i like that quote.

jf


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## ackks10 (Feb 27, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Sure. There's always going to be the live element that will determine your particular action at any given moment. I think this question has more to do with what our philosophical outlook is on when we would defend ourselves. Some of us have actually had to defend ourselves, and are also drawing on that. If you don't envision scenarios, then you make it more likely that you will fail when it hits the fan. Police and military have used scenario training for years to develop and hone the reflexes in preparation for the real deal. It works even if it's not the same as the real thing.



Hi Danjo,,and the rest of you people that responded to what i said,don't take it the wrong way,,it is really hard to put one's feelings down when you have to type them,(i wish that we could have voice with this) anyway i know what you mean,but please look at it this way,i see people training ,and when it comes to doing a tecq, (lets say arm lock from behind)
now let's see  ok P T H that is one of them but what if it did not work,(i know that you guys have heard this all before) you go into something else.
but that is were the "what if's" come into play, that all i mean, now if any of  what i just typed out don't make any sence?? that's  my fault, i didn't have my coffee yet.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2009)

kenpo101 said:


> i need to ask a the question,
> why would someone kick them to the groin and then back up and see if that is enough?
> if they are robbing you with a weapon- then kick their ***.
> If you run, what if they catch up to you, are you going to run again??
> ...


 
I agree.  If I'm going to go thru the motions of defending myself, I'm not stopping after one hit.  I'm going to use that groin kick to set up my next strike, and then my next, and next, etc. until the threat is no more.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2009)

To follow up on my thread. 

I'm an advocate of trying to talk my way out first.  I've done it before with success.  Of course, that may not always work, and we may not have the time to talk, so assess the situation.  As I said in another thread though, I don't feel that we should just hand our stuff over to the badguy, nor do I think its wise to assume that if we do, the threat will be over.  Of course, the other option is handing it over and then if something else is about to happen, then act.  I view that as...why wait?  

If there is a good chance that I could get killed anyways, may as well go down fighting.


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## Spacedcrane (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm not sure how many times it will take for others to actually read the words that I write.  So I guess I will just have to repeat my reply until we're all on the same page.



> If they are unarmed, I'll throw a quick front snap kick to the groin, back up and wait.





> If they are unarmed, I'll throw a quick front snap kick to the groin, back up and wait.





> If they are unarmed, I'll throw a quick front snap kick to the groin, back up and wait.


Is everyone reading the same thing now?  The reason I will back up and wait if they are *UNARMED*:  Maybe they haven't thought it through.  I'm giving the *UNARMED* attacker a chance to think about his/her options.  If they get hit by my snap kick, and still want to proceed.  Then they obviously still have the intent for harm.  If that is the case, then I will follow up my attack.  If they decide that life is worth living, then they will just walk away after the groin kick.  

Also, I never said anything about running away.  As an additional statement, I never said I was trained under Ed Parker's American Kenpo.


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## Danjo (Feb 27, 2009)

Spacedcrane said:


> I'm not sure how many times it will take for others to actually read the words that I write. So I guess I will just have to repeat my reply until we're all on the same page.
> 
> Is everyone reading the same thing now? The reason I will back up and wait if they are *UNARMED*: Maybe they haven't thought it through. I'm giving the *UNARMED* attacker a chance to think about his/her options. If they get hit by my snap kick, and still want to proceed. Then they obviously still have the intent for harm. If that is the case, then I will follow up my attack. If they decide that life is worth living, then they will just walk away after the groin kick.
> 
> Also, I never said anything about running away. As an additional statement, I never said I was trained under Ed Parker's American Kenpo.


  Not a good idea IMO. If they come at you, take them out.


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## MJS (Feb 27, 2009)

Spacedcrane said:


> I'm not sure how many times it will take for others to actually read the words that I write. So I guess I will just have to repeat my reply until we're all on the same page.
> 
> Is everyone reading the same thing now? The reason I will back up and wait if they are *UNARMED*: Maybe they haven't thought it through. I'm giving the *UNARMED* attacker a chance to think about his/her options. If they get hit by my snap kick, and still want to proceed. Then they obviously still have the intent for harm. If that is the case, then I will follow up my attack. If they decide that life is worth living, then they will just walk away after the groin kick.
> 
> Also, I never said anything about running away. As an additional statement, I never said I was trained under Ed Parker's American Kenpo.


 
Perhaps its just the Kenpo mindset for me, seeing that every tech. in the system has multiple hits.  So, that being said, I'm not a fan of the 1 shot, 1 kill line of thought.  Is this kick going to drop them?  Maybe, maybe not, but if someone is that enraged and coming at me, I'm not doing 1 hit.


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## Danjo (Feb 27, 2009)

Let me add: If it's serious enough to kick them in the sack, then it's serious enough to finish the fight. I can't think of too many situations where a groin kick would be warranted that a beat-down wouldn't.


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## 14 Kempo (Mar 1, 2009)

Danjo said:


> Not a good idea IMO. If they come at you, take them out.


 
I agree, why give them the opportunity to pull out a knife or any other type of weapon. It's kind of how I feel about allowing someone to tap out in a street fight ... sorry, ain't happening.


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## LawDog (Mar 1, 2009)

You fight / defend yourself untill,
*he stops on his own,
*he is unable to defend himself,
*someone with authority steps in and stops it,
*your mother says so.
:ultracool


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## just2kicku (Mar 1, 2009)

If I have commited to attacking the threat, then I personnally won't stop at one strike. I'm going for broke until like lawdog said, my mom tells me to stop!


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## just2kicku (Mar 1, 2009)

MJS said:


> Perhaps its just the Kenpo mindset for me, seeing that every tech. in the system has multiple hits.  So, that being said, I'm not a fan of the 1 shot, 1 kill line of thought.  Is this kick going to drop them?  Maybe, maybe not, but if someone is that enraged and coming at me, I'm not doing 1 hit.



What do you mean? It works for snipers!


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## MJS (Mar 1, 2009)

just2kicku said:


> What do you mean? It works for snipers!


 
Yes, you're right.


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