# should'a used more gun



## KenpoTex (Jan 25, 2008)

can't agree with his choice of weapon but kudos to him for his shooting prowess, and the kangaroo court just cracked me up 

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http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/01/sufficient-calibers.html

Thursday, January 24, 2008
Sufficient Calibers
Retired Army Green Beret Smokey Taylor was court martialed this weekend, and came away feeling good about it. Taylor, at age 80 the oldest member of Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association, was on mock trial by his peers under the charge of "Failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber" in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville, Tennesee, in December.

The entire affair, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of Dec. 17, 2007, when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand. When the intruder threatened him with a knife, Taylor warned him, then brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.

"That boy had the hardest head Ive ever seen," Taylor said after his trial. "The bullet bounced right off." The impact knocked the would be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the room then got up and ran out the door and down the street. Knoxville police apprehended him a few blocks away and he now awaits trial in the Knox County jail.

The charges against Taylor were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and Vietnam. "Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial," said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville. "He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasnt big enough to get the job done."

Taylors defense attorney, another retired Weapons Sergeant, disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a .22 caliber handgun. "If hed used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbors wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed," he said. "I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He did nothing wrong, and clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man."

Counsel for the defense then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perps forehead. "He was victimized by old ammunition," he said, "just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam, when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II."

Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. After the trial he said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out of the house. "I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead," Taylor said. "It was good for both of us that it didnt."

Following testimony from both sides, Taylor was acquitted of the charges and was given a round of applause. Meanwhile, back in Knox County, the word is out: Dont go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.


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## agemechanic03 (Jan 25, 2008)

Dang, that is crazy. I prolly would have crapped myself instead of pissing myself. And to think that the county was wanting to charge him for using too small of a firearm. I mean, now a days, if you shoot someone, u r gonna be investigated if you kill him for TOO much force. Can't they make up there flippin' minds and get out of this, I wanna sue for lookin' at me wrong mode....lol


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## SFC JeffJ (Jan 25, 2008)

Now that's a trial I would have liked to see on Court TV!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 25, 2008)

agemechanic03 said:


> Dang, that is crazy. I prolly would have crapped myself instead of pissing myself. And to think that the county was wanting to charge him for using too small of a firearm. I mean, now a days, if you shoot someone, u r gonna be investigated if you kill him for TOO much force. Can't they make up there flippin' minds and get out of this, I wanna sue for lookin' at me wrong mode....lol


 
You did read it was a MOCK trial, right?


Anyway he did break one of the unofficial rules:

Never enter a gunfight with any sidearm the caliber of which does not begin with "4".


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## tellner (Jan 25, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Never enter a gunfight with any sidearm the caliber of which does not begin with "4".



What's wrong with "50" or "12"?


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## thardey (Jan 25, 2008)

Buahahahahah!

:lfao:

*Choke* *Sniff*

Okay, I think I'm alright, now.

*Snort*

Buahahahahahahah!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 25, 2008)

tellner said:


> What's wrong with "50" or "12"?


 

I said "sidearm", not "primary"


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## tellner (Jan 25, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I said "sidearm", not "primary"


Well, if you _insist _on using mouse guns, feel free


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 25, 2008)

I should hate to see what you keep around as a PRIMARY.


On second thought I should LOVE to see it.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 25, 2008)

.22mag probably would have done the trick. That's still a really funny article.


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## agemechanic03 (Jan 26, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> You did read it was a MOCK trial, right?
> 
> 
> Anyway he did break one of the unofficial rules:
> ...



Hahaha, I did miss that part!


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## K31 (Jan 26, 2008)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I said &quot;sidearm&quot;, not &quot;primary&quot;



 Still...  http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/1277336.html  then there's 10...  http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm.html  and if you're not in a hurry...  http://civilwarhandgun.com/harper.htm


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah but 10mm is being replaced in its niche by the .357 SIG, the .500 Smith is too expensive and as handguns go, both are too powerful for practical purposes( recoil/muzzle rize too great between shots and therefore tougher to stay on target, muzzle flash enough to blind in low light).

The carbine or shotgun is the "I know you're coming" weapon, the sidearm is the "I've been surprised" gun.


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## Big Don (Jan 26, 2008)

tellner said:


> What's wrong with "50" or "12"?


I've always thought the 12 pump action shotgun to be the best weapon for home defense.

There is no other sound as distinctive as a pump shotgun's action being cycled, the ratchet of doom will discourage mischief.
If you have to shoot someone with it, you will, in all likelihood, end any threat they had posed.
It doesn't have to be aimed, just pointed.
It is big and bad enough to get the job done without passing through multiple walls.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 26, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I've always thought the 12 pump action shotgun to be the best weapon for home defense.
> 
> There is no other sound as distinctive as a pump shotgun's action being cycled, the ratchet of doom will discourage mischief.
> If you have to shoot someone with it, you will, in all likelihood, end any threat they had posed.
> ...


 
1: This can be true but can also be a double edged sword---on the one hand it IS true that there's nothing else that quite sounds like the *S*huck-*S*huck *O*f *T*rouser-*W*etting, it should be done just as, if not before, actually confronting *T*hose *C*ausing *A* *P*roblem. if one waits, confronts,  and *then* shucks the shotgun as an intimidation measure, this can backfire: Were I the one *C*ausing *A* *P*roblem, and I've just , in the course of my illicit activity, seen someone come out, with a shotgun, confront me, and THEN shuck it because only now(only NOW) did they think it just might be a good idea to have a loaded weapon in their hands, this is telling me something I imagine I would want very badly at that point to believe: _that they can be taken._

2: Yes. Not for no reason do shotgun wounds have a reputation for stopping threats.

3: I still prefer to aim, and my 590A1 is set up with sights for that purpose anyway( I'm still responsible for each pellet that leaves that muzzle, though right now it's HP slugs anyway)

4: yes, especially with smaller buckshot/#8 birdshot for apartment walls and the like.


All you have to worry about with a long gun as opposed to a sidearm is the greater ease with which a takeaway attempt can be made( one reason the bayonet lug on my 590 is appropriately occupied--criminals are getting braver and more brazen these days, but I've yet to hear of one crazy enough to rush a bayonet).


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## K31 (Jan 26, 2008)

Big Don said:


> I've always thought the 12 pump action shotgun to be the best weapon for home defense.
> There is no other sound as distinctive as a pump shotgun's action being cycled, the ratchet of doom will discourage mischief.
> If you have to shoot someone with it, you will, in all likelihood, end any threat they had posed.
> It doesn't have to be aimed, just pointed.
> It is big and bad enough to get the job done without passing through multiple walls.



 At household distances "3." definitely is not true and in any situation you need to aim to be sure you hit your target.


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## KenpoTex (Jan 26, 2008)

K31 said:


> At household distances "3." definitely is not true and in any situation you need to aim to be sure you hit your target.


 
agreed!  I think the rule of thumb is something like 1" of spread for every yard of travel (obviously slightly dependant on choke, shot size, and powder charge, etc.).  As a result, at 7 yards, you're only looking at around 5-7" of spread...definately need to aim.

I also would NOT use bird-shot (7 1/2's or 8's)...you're not going to reliably get enough penetration, stick with at least #4-buck or larger (I use double-0).  Is there a risk of overpenetration? sure, but that's the case with any adequate weapon.  If it won't punch through 1/2" sheetrock, what good is it going to be against a badguy?


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