# Rate these Systema players



## SilatFan

I wont insult you or your art with asking you to validate your system.  I believe that it is a quality art.  But one of your peers (who may be here as well) is defending systema on another forum at this time.  In the debate these two clips were submitted by a detractor.





http://web.mit.edu/mao/www/TRAD.asf 

http://web.mit.edu/mao/www/rus.mpg 



Can you please tell me what level you would rate the practitioners that are in these clips?  In regards to what Id call the TKD fighter vs. the Systema fighter sparring match  barring the final results - would you say that the Systema fighter fought and moved as is indicative of a Systema practitioner?  If not, what did/didnt he do that would be called wrong or not Systema?  Would you rate them as advanced, intermediate, beginner, etc, etc, etc?


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## Koryu Rich

Hi all first post in this section,





Can't comment too much only been in the Art for a couple of years....



However to me they seem to be doing an awful lot of excessive movement i.e. the arm waving whilst sparring, now I can see reasons for maybe doing this but it's not how I've been taught. Yes I've been told not to keep stopping and starting and to keep moving but I've no idea what's going on with the arm waving. Sometimes the arms are pretty high up and I would of thought that it interferes with you breathing???



Maybe the movement is involved with trying to match and affect the rhythm of the opponent???





Any Systema folks with more experience got any ideas???


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## BobP

The clip I downloaded (rus.mpg) looked to me like the traditional Russian village "wall fight" followed by a couple of guys having a boxing match. So I don't really understand the question.


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## Furtry

That was fun, thanks. I've been to a couple of festivals like that.
The one on one bout had a stipulation (I heard in the back ground some one yell) to only use hands. Those people were not experts, but more like enthusiasts. RMA is a cultural art which is influenced by regions and morays and morals of the region, much like Gung Fu in China. That being said the second fight is a couple of mediocre practitioners having a great go. Thanks for the clips I enjoyed them very much.


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## SilatFan

Thanks for the feedback.


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## SilatFan

Furtry,



I had a question which I hoped might be answered in my earlier thread regarding Systemas structure regarding the upper level players of your art.  Does MR have any peers  now or before -that are at or close to his skill level?    Like in Silat you had Jim Ingrim, the De Thouras brothers, Willem Reeders, Rudy Tinderlin and Wetzel who were all high level practitioners with some overlap in time and supposedly similar skill sets.  



Peace


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## BobP

If I may "do a Furtry"....



Yes


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## Furtry

BobP said:
			
		

> If I may "do a Furtry"....
> 
> 
> 
> Yes


:lol: Yes, BobP is correct :lol:. MR and VV have chosen to come out into the public eye and IMO grace us, by showing us and teaching us Systema. There are many talented practitioners who keep to them selves as it's not their thing to teach or to pass along the knowledge.


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## SilatFan

Excellent!

Please tell me did these men all learn from the same instructor as MR?  If not, do you know of any other instructors in the generation prior to MR's?
From what I've read MR's teacher was a former bodyguard for Stalin.  Is that correct?  Is there any more information on him?


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## Arthur

> Rate these Systema players


Hard to do since they aren't Systema practitioners. Looks more like folk arts (as already said) and maybe beginner level Borba.

Arthur


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## Furtry

Arthur said:
			
		

> Hard to do since they aren't Systema practitioners. Looks more like folk arts (as already said) and maybe beginner level Borba.
> 
> Arthur


Good point Arthur. Systema is an amalgamation of all Slavic styles, which were influenced by the geography, morays, and customs of the people. Systema has its roots in Slavic traditions but it is constantly evolving, (with heavy modern military influence) with the roots principles remaining constant to guide the development.


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## SilatFan

Originally Posted by *Arthur*
_Hard to do since they aren't Systema practitioners. Looks more like folk arts (as already said) and maybe beginner level Borba.

Arthur_






			
				Furtry said:
			
		

> Good point Arthur. Systema is an amalgamation of all Slavic styles, .....


 
Ok here is where I may be a pest but arent these two comments contradictory?

If Systema is a combination of Slavic folk arts and you say that these people are doing Slavic folk arts then where is the difference?  Does Systema, for lack of a better phrase, do what these guys do and more? 



Do you know if there is somewhere that you can point me to where there is video of Systema practitioners sparring in real time against practitioners of other arts?



Additionally Id like to say thanks for fielding my questions.


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## BobP

http://82.68.61.38/throwdown_march_2005/vale_tudo/vtpaul.wmv


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## SilatFan

Thanksfor the Clip BobP!



Can you give some background to the video.  I'm guessing the guy in black pants is Systema what did the other guy study?  He kinda looked like a poor Royce Gracie affiliate

Also, what would you say the  Systema practitioner did that demonstrated Systema?  I noticed the punch & mostly hands down position.  But he seemed to just apply a headlock, sweep and attempt to pass guard (ala BJJ & Submission Wrestling) and then the other guy did a sweep and mounted him at which point sombody stopped them because they were off the mats.


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## BobP

The best way to get answers to your many questions is really to go and train with some Systema people.


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## SilatFan

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I own several Systema instructional videos and they were always using compliant partners when demonstrationg techniques and concepts.  Which is fine because they are just demonstrations.  But I kinda thought that that was how a practitioner would move when faced with an attack.  I expected guys to move like I've seen VV and MR move but that video showed what I would call  BJJ, Judo, Sambo or Wrestling techniques and progression in action.  

The guy was pretty relaxed while standing but besides the punch he threw it seemed more like a grappling session starting on the feet. When looking at that video what should my untrained Systema eye look for or notice that would make me say "aha, That is Systema!".  Because that tape looked like to mediocre grapplers squareing off, one landing a punch, clinch into headlock, throw, land into guard, attempt to pass guard, get swept, get mounted and then somebody stops the action.  What am I missing?  I know not everybody moves the same in this art, was that a Systema guy with some grappling experience and thats why it seemed more like a grappling match?


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## SilatFan

I just read your last post after I typed the above one.  Sorry for the late addition.  Thanks for the feedback.


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## NYCRonin

LOL - depending on which vids you say you own - once you meet and work with Vlad (especially) and some of the older crew in the art....your going to realize that there was little comliance involved, the appearences are very deceiving - the 'work' only looks compliant....There is alot of serious hard unrehearsed or planned movement recorded on tape - but the defenses make it appear so easily done, that non-Systemists often think they are rehearsed set ups.

I wont go into a lenthgy debate about it - you have to see....better yet be the free form attacker...and experience that one often looks clumsy, unfocused or poorly skilled, when attacking a Systeman.....best get thee to a seminar or a session near you. The tapes are not enough, not by a long shot.
They are best used as a supplemental...after you get some hands on basics with an experienced guide. Until you can do that - your not going to really understand what you 'think' you see in the tapes, not fully - even at best.


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## SilatFan

NYCRonin said:
			
		

> LOL - depending on which vids you say you own - once you meet and work with Vlad (especially) and some of the older crew in the art....your going to realize that there was little comliance involved, the appearences are very deceiving - the 'work' only looks compliant....There is alot of serious hard unrehearsed or planned movement recorded on tape - but the defenses make it appear so easily done, that non-Systemists often think they are rehearsed set ups.
> 
> I wont go into a lenthgy debate about it - you have to see....better yet be the free form attacker...and experience that one often looks clumsy, unfocused or poorly skilled, when attacking a Systeman.....best get thee to a seminar or a session near you. The tapes are not enough, not by a long shot.
> They are best used as a supplemental...after you get some hands on basics with an experienced guide. Until you can do that - your not going to really understand what you 'think' you see in the tapes, not fully - even at best.


Yeah, I'll just keep looking at VV seminar page and when one is held somewhere near I'll attend.  I was just hoping to get some insight with those specific questions to give me some better idea of your art.  Thanks for the time.


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## Furtry

SilatFan said:
			
		

> Originally Posted by *Arthur*
> _Hard to do since they aren't Systema practitioners. Looks more like folk arts (as already said) and maybe beginner level Borba.
> 
> Arthur_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok here is where I may be a pest but arent these two comments contradictory?
> 
> If Systema is a combination of Slavic folk arts and you say that these people are doing Slavic folk arts then where is the difference?  Does Systema, for lack of a better phrase, do what these guys do and more?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know if there is somewhere that you can point me to where there is video of Systema practitioners sparring in real time against practitioners of other arts?
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally Id like to say thanks for fielding my questions.


Your logic is a bit off but that's not the point.
The clip doesn't illustrate everything but again that is not the point.
Systema is not so much what you do but is more of how you do it.
Systema does have a 'signature' look but the hands down thing is NOT it :lol:. At the same time the look is very individualistically influenced by the practitioners strengths. Systema is an art which will help you with everything you do.


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## SilatFan

"Your logic is a bit off but that's not the point."
I can believe that but could you point out specifically how?



"Systema is not so much what you do but is more of how you do it."
I thought I understood that but the 'how' guys were moving looked different to me from what I've seen so I asked BobP to explain to me what I wasn't understanding.  He said I got to work with somebody in person.  I think I thanked him for his answers & his time.    Should I have said something else?



"Systema does have a 'signature' look but the hands down thing is NOT it :lol:."
The 'signature' is what I asking to have pointed out to me.



 "At the same time the look is very individualistically influenced by the practitioners strengths."
Which is why I asked BobP if the Systema practitioner, in the video he provided, had a grappling background and if that was why his movement appeared different from how I've seen VV & MR move  (i.e. it looked like a grappling match & not what I've seen VV & MR do in the videos I had seen).  Incidently, those videos are 'Master of fighting', 'knife defenses', an older one called the foundation package (split into upperbody & lowerbody), VV's book and the newest video 2 disc set.  I have liked what I've seen and thought enough about it to buy more.  But I don't get why when I ask *specific* questions about a guys movement (like 'I don't get it what am I missing that looks like Sub Wrestling' or 'what did he do that you would call systema' or 'what should I look for that you would call classic systema technique/concept/tactic') those questions are ignored or I get an answer with basically what I asked.  
Like:  
Q: "'what should I look for that you would call classic systema?"
A: "Systema does have a 'signature' look but the hands down thing is NOT it."
Well OK but then what is?

If you don't know the answer thats fine.  If you dont want to answer thats cool to but don't waste our time running in circles with answers like that.  Just let the thread die.  If I get the chance I'll go to a seminar with VV like you suggested.  Maybe I'm just to thick headed to understand on this medium.


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## MattW

In regards to the clip of a systema practitioner sparring a vale tudo guy:

To me, the thing that appears most systema is the way he moves around the guy at the beginning so that when the guy attacks, he is in prime position to land that nice crack to the jaw. The systema breaks down from there when he decided to square off the guy, landing him in a shoot, then grappling on the ground...all while squared off with the guy, something Systema avoids.


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## Mark Jakabcsin

SilatFan said:
			
		

> But I don't get why when I ask *specific* questions about a guys movement those questions are ignored or I get an answer with basically what I asked.



  Welcome to Systema. While your questions may seem simple and straight forward to you, that is probably not the case. I haven't watched the clip in question since my antique computer won't support it but judging from your questions I can see why you aren't getting the straight answer you desire. Basically you are trying to fit Systema into a neat little box or paradigm with a label on it that reads 'Systema inside'. Such an approach simply doesn't work. The more someone trains the more he/she understands the truth to that view, hence the answers you have received likewise reflect this truth. 

Furthermore, the best Systema lessons are those that are figured out by the student. Some might even say the only lessons learned are those that are self taught. Instructors create opportunities to learn and demonstrate the possibilities but it is truly up to the student to learn it or not. Frequently it takes exposure to multiple opportunities before a student can begin to understand, and even then that understanding WILL change over time. Change - the only constant in life.

As for seminars in your area (what ever that may be) also check the Announcement Board section on Vladimir's site for seminars taught by his instructors. Between Vladimir's seminars and his instructors they cover a large area every year. You may want to post your general area as a few of us also travel on business regularly and could maybe meet you during one of these trips. Last month I meet with some guys in south Jersey that had an interest and we had a great time training. Just some suggestions. Take care.

Mark J.


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## BobP

"Do you know if there is somewhere that you can point me to where there is video of Systema practitioners sparring in real time against practitioners of other arts?"

That's what you asked for, that's what I posted. The sessions on that day were conducted under Vale Tudo rules.  IMO the first punch on that clip showed Systema, the rest falls under general "sparring under Vale Tudo rules". Hence the "squaring up " and the rest. In a real situation (in which the guy in the clip as a serving LEO has plenty of experience) it wouldn't have gone further than the first hit.

I'm sure your enquiries are genuine and you are not just trolling. I can't imagine anyone wasting the amount of effort you obviously put into your posts merely to try and score "points" on an internet forum.

Let us know where you are and perhaps we can hook you up with someone who you can "spar" with.


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## Paul Genge

The Systema guy in the clip that has been posted by Bob P is myself.  Prior to training in Systema I spent 12 years studying Bujinkan Taijutsu and a number of years playing with other styles.  The way I work is also flavoured by 9 years as a front line cop where your opponent often runs if you do not have a good hold of him.

As far as the clip goes it was a wonderful opportunity for myself to learn from the throwdown experience.  

Where things really moved from the way we train is in what is going through my mind during the event.    Initially I treated the event as a fight.  There had been lots of big talk on the Bullshido site about throwdowns and as far as I was concerned the other guy was going to try to hurt me. 

On the video the other guy is seen to throw a kick to the groin.  Until I watched that clip I was convinced he had thrown a punch.  I certainly did not conciously see the kick coming and moved in a manner that made me feel safe (a principle from Systema).  The result was the left to the jaw and a follow up kick which was stopped once my sparring partner let a whelp and backed off upset at how hard he had been hit.  

The reason for stopping the follow up was simply that I did not want to destroy someone just to make a point.  He was obviously not as much of a threat as I first thought and it would have been wrong of me to continue. 

The opponent came forward again with his hand as a guard.  This time I stepped left and hit with a right to the left side of his face.  He bent over and at this point I broke the cardinal rule and tried to do something specific.  At this point my mind set changed.  This would have been a guilatine into a sutemi (sacrifice throw) that takes the attacker to the floor in a strangle.  This comes from no particular style it is simply something I discovered one day in sparring and have found to work reliably in my proffessional experiences.  At this point my mind set changed.  I became wrapped up in the situation, just as you can do in a real fight (This is the first time I have been able to watch this happen from a spectators perspective and it has been very usefull). 

At the point I go for this you can clearly see the tension across my back as I tense up.  The opponent stands before the guilatine goes on and I then used a simple throw from my school yard judo days to bring the opponent to the floor.  

The problem with comparing this to real fighting is that in real fighting you are simply trying to survive.  In this and any other sporting event you are trying to win.  As a result of this I lost the plot (in a systema way) and simply punched the guys nose a few times then had a little grapple with him.  He flipped me off the mat and before I got a chance to counter we got stopped.  

His nose was bleeding and he decided that he had enough.  We shook hands, I stopped the nose bleed using a presure point and we parted on good terms.

Everyones Systema has it's own look.  Despite this there is good systema and bad systema.  If you look at the way that Vladimir and Michael move they are very different.  Vladimir's systema is flavoured by his training and experiences that he had prior to meeting Michael.  

Instead of trying to place a whole art in a pidgeon hole it is best you seek first hand experience. What I can tell you that wether an opponent resists or not is immaterial when you donto try to do a specific technique.  So long as you simply move naturally and take the opportunities presented to you resistance is not an issue.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)


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## SilatFan

MattW said:
			
		

> In regards to the clip of a systema practitioner sparring a vale tudo guy:
> 
> To me, the thing that appears most systema is the way he moves around the guy at the beginning so that when the guy attacks, he is in prime position to land that nice crack to the jaw. The systema breaks down from there when he decided to square off the guy, landing him in a shoot, then grappling on the ground...all while squared off with the guy, something Systema avoids.


Thanks MattW!


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## SilatFan

BobP said:
			
		

> "Do you know if there is somewhere that you can point me to where there is video of Systema practitioners sparring in real time against practitioners of other arts?"
> 
> That's what you asked for, that's what I posted. ........
> 
> I'm sure your enquiries are genuine and you are not just trolling. I can't imagine anyone wasting the amount of effort you obviously put into your posts merely to try and score "points" on an internet forum.
> 
> Let us know where you are and perhaps we can hook you up with someone who you can "spar" with.


Yeah, I asked if anyone had clips that they felt showed Systema in action vs Non-Systema guys.  You offered that clip.  I asked followup questions - because I didn't understand - and you had nothing more to say but go find someone in person.  I thanked you and said I'd do that but then others had some more comments which I replied to.  Thanks for confirming you don't believe I'm trolling because I asked specific questions on something we all could view (the video).  I know how questions can rattle some people.  I'll try not to take your offer to "spar" as anything but a kind offer to help me understand.


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## SilatFan

Paul Genge said:
			
		

> The Systema guy in the clip that has been posted by Bob P is myself. Prior to training in Systema I spent 12 years studying Bujinkan Taijutsu and a number of years playing with other styles. The way I work is also flavoured by 9 years as a front line cop where your opponent often runs if you do not have a good hold of him.
> 
> As far as the clip goes it was a wonderful opportunity for myself to learn from the throwdown experience.
> 
> Where things really moved from the way we train is in what is going through my mind during the event. Initially I treated the event as a fight. There had been lots of big talk on the Bullshido site about throwdowns and as far as I was concerned the other guy was going to try to hurt me.
> 
> On the video the other guy is seen to throw a kick to the groin. Until I watched that clip I was convinced he had thrown a punch. I certainly did not conciously see the kick coming and moved in a manner that made me feel safe (a principle from Systema). The result was the left to the jaw and a follow up kick which was stopped once my sparring partner let a whelp and backed off upset at how hard he had been hit.
> 
> The reason for stopping the follow up was simply that I did not want to destroy someone just to make a point. He was obviously not as much of a threat as I first thought and it would have been wrong of me to continue.
> 
> The opponent came forward again with his hand as a guard. This time I stepped left and hit with a right to the left side of his face. He bent over and at this point I broke the cardinal rule and tried to do something specific. At this point my mind set changed. This would have been a guilatine into a sutemi (sacrifice throw) that takes the attacker to the floor in a strangle. This comes from no particular style it is simply something I discovered one day in sparring and have found to work reliably in my proffessional experiences. At this point my mind set changed. I became wrapped up in the situation, just as you can do in a real fight (This is the first time I have been able to watch this happen from a spectators perspective and it has been very usefull).
> 
> At the point I go for this you can clearly see the tension across my back as I tense up. The opponent stands before the guilatine goes on and I then used a simple throw from my school yard judo days to bring the opponent to the floor.
> 
> The problem with comparing this to real fighting is that in real fighting you are simply trying to survive. In this and any other sporting event you are trying to win. As a result of this I lost the plot (in a systema way) and simply punched the guys nose a few times then had a little grapple with him. He flipped me off the mat and before I got a chance to counter we got stopped.
> 
> His nose was bleeding and he decided that he had enough. We shook hands, I stopped the nose bleed using a presure point and we parted on good terms.
> 
> Everyones Systema has it's own look. Despite this there is good systema and bad systema. If you look at the way that Vladimir and Michael move they are very different. Vladimir's systema is flavoured by his training and experiences that he had prior to meeting Michael.
> 
> Instead of trying to place a whole art in a pidgeon hole it is best you seek first hand experience. What I can tell you that wether an opponent resists or not is immaterial when you donto try to do a specific technique. So long as you simply move naturally and take the opportunities presented to you resistance is not an issue.
> 
> Paul Genge
> Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)


Thank you Paul!  As a fellow officer I do understand the hurdles you face because I have faced them myself.  I believe in my post following BobP's video I asked for a breakdown like the one you just offered.  I do appretiate it.  But I'm not trying to "pigeon hole" Systema.  I'm asking for your (or any Systema practitioners) opinion on it and what was/wasn't it in the video BobP provided as a example of Systema in action.


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## leomel pino

if you want to experience systema then just do as what those guys from bullshido did to a systema instructor at Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK) and be sure to have all your techniques and MA experience thrown at him and so that you can find the right answer.


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## Furtry

SilatFan, in class today we shot some video of full on 'sparing' type of work, fully resistant and aggressive work. Vlad was mentioning he might put it up on his site, I hope it turns out.


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## Furtry

Furtry said:
			
		

> SilatFan, in class today we shot some video of full on 'sparing' type of work, fully resistant and aggressive work. Vlad was mentioning he might put it up on his site, I hope it turns out.


Okay, the clips are up. The first one shows the progression of how we train strikes. The second is some free flow wrestling/grappling, basically with in a limit of a defence against a wrestling style of attack, then back up and go again, alternating who is the aggressor.
I'm in both clips, the short guy wearing the green t-shirt, and commo pants  .
The guys in the clips with whom I wrestled are some what new to Systema (less than a year each), but are not new to martial arts. Coincidently both have a serious weight and size advantage on me.
Systema is demonstrated in the first clip by the relaxed continuous strikes from any angle with out the traditional 'chambered' position of the hands, hitting any target available. In the second clip the continuous flow from one move to the next with out powering through, but rather going with and around resistance. (With the exception of me doing the arm bar, but I couldnt help my self...  ). Again all strikes and counter tactics came out of naturally occurring responses with out any prearranged technique or response.
Hope that clarifies some things and as you can see Systema is different than the folk styles in the original clips.


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## rutherford

Nice clips.  Looks like a lot of fun.

http://www.russianmartialart.com/main.php?page=clips


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## Paul Genge

Furtry said:
			
		

> In the second clip the continuous flow from one move to the next with out powering through, but rather going with and around resistance. *(With the exception of me doing the arm bar, but I couldnt help my self...*  ). Again all strikes and counter tactics came out of naturally occurring responses with out any prearranged technique or response.
> Hope that clarifies some things and as you can see Systema is different than the folk styles in the original clips.


There lies one of beautiful truths in Systema.  If it is there and it works for you it does not matter where you picked up the principle from.  After all would you find professionals feeling bad about doing something they were not taught if it helped them to survive a situation.

The training drills of systema are unique in my experience because they allow the quality principles learnt in other martial arts to come out naturally and instinctively.  The only problem is you have to just let them happen and not try to force the issue.

Paul Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)


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## SilatFan

Furtry said:
			
		

> Systema is demonstrated in the first clip by the relaxed continuous strikes from any angle with out the traditional 'chambered' position of the hands, hitting any target available. In the second clip the continuous flow from one move to the next with out powering through, but rather going with and around resistance. (With the exception of me doing the arm bar, but I couldnt help my self...  ). Again all strikes and counter tactics came out of naturally occurring responses with out any prearranged technique or response.
> Hope that clarifies some things and as you can see Systema is different than the folk styles in the original clips.


Sorry about my delayed response.  Ive been away and havent had the time to check the forum.   Furtry, I like the clips.  More so, I like that you were able to articulate some of the principals of your art to me when describing the clips.  I hope you dont feel like you had to pidgeon hole (Sorry Paul ) your art to describe/point out its concepts as they were played out on video.     Thanks for your effort and help.


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## SilatFan

leomel pino said:
			
		

> if you want to experience systema then just do as what those guys from bullshido did to a systema instructor at Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK) and be sure to have all your techniques and MA experience thrown at him and so that you can find the right answer.


Leomel Pino, thanks for contributing so much to the conversation!  From your input Ive concluded that you are obviously an intellectual giant and Im quite sure a very capable practitioner.  Its surely my loss that I live in another country and therefore have no chance of learning from your capable hands.  Im sure a Bullshido type challenge is just what you did to learn Systema, right?  - I know, I know I was asking questions about Systema, in a Systema forum, about a clip that a Systema instructor was good enough to provide when asked for one and I posed those questions to Systema practitioners  what was I thinking?  If I really cared to learn something about your art I should have just slammed it on Bullshido, Right?  Being a timid and simpler person Ill just keep training and watching VVs Seminar and announcement pages.  When an opportunity arises Ill follow up on it and learn some useful stuff Im sure.  In the mean time keep parceling out your great insights they are priceless.


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## Simon Curran

Please do not take offence any of you who are practitioners of Systema this is merely a personal observation, and not a criticism, but to an outsider, from the videos which were posted, it looks very much like free flow brawling to me.

Don't get me wrong I'm not criticising, and I would be very interested in learning if anyone knows of any schools in Denmark it's just my untrained eye could not (like the original poster) see a difference


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## Furtry

Silat Fan, :lol: you crack me up  (reference to leomel pino). We have a lot of cops training at Club Vlad, all of whom have a very similar approach to life, I'm glad I was able to clarify things and stay safe.


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## Furtry

Simon Curran said:
			
		

> Please do not take offence any of you who are practitioners of Systema this is merely a personal observation, and not a criticism, but to an outsider, from the videos which were posted, it looks very much like free flow brawling to me.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I'm not criticising, and I would be very interested in learning if anyone knows of any schools in Denmark it's just my untrained eye could not (like the original poster) see a difference


Simmon, sometimes it is just that; a brawl. But a brawl that allows a person to survive with out being injured, or to keep going if injured. I've pointed out the obvious Systema aspects, so reread the thread if youre interested.
I also believe that there is an affiliate in Denmark, if not; set up a seminar and invite Vlad .


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## SilatFan

Furtry said:
			
		

> Silat Fan, :lol: you crack me up  (reference to leomel pino). We have a lot of cops training at Club Vlad, all of whom have a very similar approach to life, I'm glad I was able to clarify things and stay safe.


Thanks again Furtry and everyone else for your help!


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## Simon Curran

Furtry said:
			
		

> Simmon, sometimes it is just that; a brawl. But a brawl that allows a person to survive with out being injured, or to keep going if injured. I've pointed out the obvious Systema aspects, so reread the thread if youre interested.
> I also believe that there is an affiliate in Denmark, if not; set up a seminar and invite Vlad .


Thanks for your response, I will look into the affiliate over here, cos I don't think I can afford to set up a seminar:asian:


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## Dan G

Simon Curran said:
			
		

> Thanks for your response, I will look into the affiliate over here, cos I don't think I can afford to set up a seminar:asian:


Hi Simon,

Check out these links.

http://www.russiansystema.org.uk/

http://www.systemalondon.com/default.htm

The top bloke in Systema - Mikhail Ryabko - is doing a 2 day seminar in the UK on 17-18 September.
Looks pretty interesting, and I am thinking of going. If cheap flights available might be worth the trip over, who knows... 

Was good seeing you and your bro at Doc's seminar in Exeter.

Cheers

Dan


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## kenpoworks

Systema UK on 17-18 September, If you really want to open up your Kenpo then I would reccomend this seminar, we (kenpoists) are doing the same thing as the Russian Martial Arts, except we don't know it..........I could say some other things but I won't, go to the seminar.
Rich


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## Simon Curran

Dan G said:
			
		

> Hi Simon,
> 
> Check out these links.
> 
> http://www.russiansystema.org.uk/
> 
> http://www.systemalondon.com/default.htm
> 
> The top bloke in Systema - Mikhail Ryabko - is doing a 2 day seminar in the UK on 17-18 September.
> Looks pretty interesting, and I am thinking of going. If cheap flights available might be worth the trip over, who knows...
> 
> Was good seeing you and your bro at Doc's seminar in Exeter.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dan


Thanks Dan, good being able a face to the name...
Will try to get over.
Simon


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## Simon Curran

kenpoworks said:
			
		

> Systema UK on 17-18 September, If you really want to open up your Kenpo then I would reccomend this seminar, we (kenpoists) are doing the same thing as the Russian Martial Arts, except we don't know it..........I could say some other things but I won't, go to the seminar.
> Rich


Thanks to you too.:asian:


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## jellyman

" In regards to what Id call the TKD fighter vs. the Systema fighter sparring match "

Well, neither are systema, but I wonder why you think one guy is TKD?


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## first123class

What was different about that clip?
Did not look like they knew much.
May be I am wrong.


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## Furtry

first123class said:
			
		

> What was different about that clip?
> Did not look like they knew much.
> May be I am wrong.


yes.


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