# A Uniquely Emasculating Experience



## Gordon Nore (Sep 8, 2007)

My one-year-old car needs a new engine because I didn't keep up with oil changes.

On Thursday my son noticed a knocking sound that increased with the RPMs -- kind of like a playing card on a bicycle spoke. The car was really slow starting out in first. I was already scheduled for my two-months past due oil change today. Somehow, I deluded myself into believing that it was something minor. "Maybe it's the clutch," I told myself.

The sad part: My son, who has been driving less than a year, has been reminding me since July that I was supposed to go in for the oil change. He even offered to take the car in for me, but I kept putting it off. Since he and I are sharing the vehicle, while my wife uses our old mini wagon, we've put a lot more mileage on it than our previous cars. 

I should have known.

Here's the rundown... I presented my problem to the man at the service counter a Hyundai today. I sat down in the waiting room. Ten minutes later, the service manager summoned me: "Mr Nore, leave your car and go home." The cost: $3000 to $4000 Canadian, and I can't count on the warranty to help me because I was neglectful of the service schedule.

The guy was explaining all this to me in front of about ten other guys who were picking up or dropping off their cars. It was very quiet, everyone with their heads bowed. I'm sure it looked like one those TV programs where they show videos of guys getting hit in the groin. You know how guys double-up when they see another guy get hit there? It was just like that.

I went home, made a big credit card, payment so I would be sure to have enough for a rental... for several days. My wife has taken the news quite well. My son seems to understand the unique feeling stupidity that I'm experiencing.


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## theletch1 (Sep 8, 2007)

A car that new should not have blown a motor with simply an overdue oil change.  I've known severl folks have a car for 5 or 6 years and never do an oil change with out blowing that motor.  I'd say that you shouldn't beat yourself up too much because it sounds like there was a little more than just the old oil going on with the vehicle.  I'm not a certified mechanic by any stretch of the imagination.  I'm what we call around here a shade tree mechanic...literally.  I swapped out the rear end in my Cherokee under a big ol' shade tree in my back yard a month or two ago.


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## bydand (Sep 8, 2007)

I agree with Jeff, an overdue oil change shouldn't have cooked your motor, unless it was way, way low on oil, but then your idiot light should have come on.  I know a few people who have gone as far as 10,000 miles on the same oil (not that I would endorse that) without a major breakdown.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 8, 2007)

Thanks, guys,

The part I forgot to mention was that the oil light did finally come on the day before I brought it in, so I topped it up immediately. But that's no big thing -- when I was about seventeen, I had a used '74 Pontiac Astra (Canadian equivalent of the Chevy Vega). The oil light came on most every day, so I topped it up as I drove. In fact, towards the end of that car's life, I carried a case of oil and a spout in the trunk.

(More significantly, the car's engine warning light never came on.)

I'm going to talk to them after the mechanic has opened it up, and get them to inspect the indicator, check for leaks, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have a parking space for this car -- my wife uses the driveway; the garage is full of junk; I park on the street -- so I wouldn't necessarily notice a leak.


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## bydand (Sep 8, 2007)

Man that just sucks!  No other way to put it, I hope it works out for you and doesn't cost you a fortune.


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## theletch1 (Sep 8, 2007)

There are very few problems in life that the proper application of C-4 can't fix.


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## Kreth (Sep 8, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> But that's no big thing -- when I was about seventeen, I had a used '74 Pontiac Astra (Canadian equivalent of the Chevy Vega). The oil light came on most every day, so I topped it up as I drove. In fact, towards the end of that car's life, I carried a case of oil and a spout in the trunk.


I think most of us have had a vehicle like that at one point in our lives: tank of gas, quart (or two) of oil... :lol:


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## 14 Kempo (Sep 8, 2007)

I agree with a few of the posts, the engine should not have blown on an overdue oil change. One thing that comes to mind, is it possible that the filter clogged and did not allow the proper amount of flow through the system? That could be something that may not be caught by idiot lights. There is enough oil in the system, but it wasn't getting to where it needed to be. 

Just a thought ...


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 8, 2007)

Kreth said:


> I think most of us have had a vehicle like that at one point in our lives: tank of gas, quart (or two) of oil... :lol:



Automotive writers referred to the Astra/Vega as the car "that rusted on the showroom floor." They were around in the seventies. Period. I don't think I saw one that was still on the road in the eighties. We used to say, "Fill up the oil... and check the gas while you're at it."


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## kidswarrior (Sep 8, 2007)

As most everyone has said, this smells pretty fishy. Like *Letch*, in my younger days I was a decent backyard mechanic (my father-in-law was a pro, so always had backup ) and I just can't imagine a scenario where going a month or two over the recommended date on an oil change would burn out a one year old engine--unless it was a _manufacturing _problem. A car that new wouldn't have had time to develop leaky gaskets, etc. And having the idiot light come on _a day or two_ before, No, no leak should have been that fast. Think I'd want my own mechanic to check it out for a second opinion. But that's a big hassle, so I've also had to just bite the bullet in some of these life FUBAR's. Anyway, my condolences, and best wishes in all this.


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## bydand (Sep 8, 2007)

Kreth said:


> I think most of us have had a vehicle like that at one point in our lives: tank of gas, quart (or two) of oil... :lol:



Cripes, I STILL own one like that.  I just have other options as well, as opposed to back when.


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## shesulsa (Sep 9, 2007)

bydand said:


> Cripes, I STILL own one like that.  I just have other options as well, as opposed to back when.


As do we.  We don't drive the Prelude without at least a couple gallons of water, some antifreeze and oil.  Gas lasts longer than the oil.


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## Senjojutsu (Sep 9, 2007)

A small rant, similar thoughts to previous posts:

If all the Motor Oil and Oil Filter companies spend tens of millions of advertising dollars annually telling us guys how chemically superior their oil fluids are - or how brilliantly engineered their oil filters are, then please tell me why those same companies still say their products still have to be changed once every three thousand miles just like the crappy stuff we were using back in the 1970's?

Rant off/


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## Kacey (Sep 9, 2007)

Senjojutsu said:


> A small rant, similar thoughts to previous posts:
> 
> If all the Motor Oil and Oil Filter companies spend tens of millions of advertising dollars annually telling us guys how chemically superior their oil fluids are - or how brilliantly engineered their oil filters are, then please tell me why those same companies still say their products still have to be changed once every three thousand miles just like the crappy stuff we were using back in the 1970's?
> 
> Rant off/



I don't know... but I will say that when I bought my new Toyota last spring (to replace my 12 year-old Nissan), they are now recommending oil changes every 5000 miles - or, if you go with a more expensive, completely synthetic blend, every either 7000 or 8000 miles; I can't remember which.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 9, 2007)

Upon further reflection it occurs to me that the car was in their hands for maybe five minutes, which means that their assessment is based on starting and running the vehicle, not actually looking at anything.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 14, 2007)

Well, I'm not in the hole. The warranty will cover everything, so I'm getting a new engine for the cost of an oil change.

Whew.


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## kidswarrior (Sep 14, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> Well, I'm not in the hole. The warranty will cover everything, so I'm getting a new engine for the cost of an oil change.
> 
> Whew.


Great news! Thanks for letting us know.


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## Sukerkin (Sep 14, 2007)

That is good to hear, *Gordon*.  For once a warranty worth the price of the paper it's written on .


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## bydand (Sep 14, 2007)

Hurray for the good guys!  I've been wondering how you were making out.


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## michaeledward (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm glad I got to the top post on this page before replying. 

If this car was purchased new, and you didn't add *any* oil during the time you owned it, and what you describe happened, and the dealer would seek a warranty replacement of the engine ... 

You should immediately call the manufacturer and ask to speak with the Zone Service Director. 

We buy new cars because we want an engine that is warrantied. In Hyundai's case, it is a 100,000 mile / 10 year warranty in the States, if I am not mistaken. 


I do all my oil changes on 5,000 mile intervals. And, so should you. But, a new vehicle is a new vehicle. And new engines should not seize.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 14, 2007)

michaeledward said:


> I'm glad I got to the top post on this page before replying.
> 
> If this car was purchased new, and you didn't add *any* oil during the time you owned it, and what you describe happened, and the dealer would seek a warranty replacement of the engine ...
> 
> I do all my oil changes on 5,000 mile intervals. And, so should you. But, a new vehicle is a new vehicle. And new engines should not seize.




It was a new purchase. Two oil changes in 18,000 km. My bad. I'm actually very conscientious about bringing the car in on schedule. However, this kind of damage seems odd. When they spoke me on Tuesday, they said they were just taking down the oil pan for inspection. Apparently, whatever they found would determine whether warranty would cover.

They did. I've been appropriately chastened by the service rep. I will never gamble on this again. And I have a new engine.

Anyhow, the little Hyundai Accent I rented is fun, and, yes, the Hyundai Canada provides virtually the same warranty available in the US. As I said before, they took real good care of me when the transmission died on my previous Elantra, a mini wagon, so I was expecting it would work out.


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## Carol (Sep 14, 2007)

Senjojutsu said:


> A small rant, similar thoughts to previous posts:
> 
> If all the Motor Oil and Oil Filter companies spend tens of millions of advertising dollars annually telling us guys how chemically superior their oil fluids are - or how brilliantly engineered their oil filters are, then please tell me why those same companies still say their products still have to be changed once every three thousand miles just like the crappy stuff we were using back in the 1970's?
> 
> Rant off/



:idunno:  My 2004 Honda CR-V goes 10K in between oil changes, as per the owners manual.


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## Carol (Sep 14, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> It was a new purchase. Two oil changes in 18,000 km. My bad. I'm actually very conscientious about bringing the car in on schedule. However, this kind of damage seems odd. When they spoke me on Tuesday, they said they were just taking down the oil pan for inspection. Apparently, whatever they found would determine whether warranty would cover.
> 
> They did. I've been appropriately chastened by the service rep. I will never gamble on this again. And I have a new engine.
> 
> Anyhow, the little Hyundai Accent I rented is fun, and, yes, the Hyundai Canada provides virtually the same warranty available in the US. As I said before, they took real good care of me when the transmission died on my previous Elantra, a mini wagon, so I was expecting it would work out.



Two oil changes in 18,000 km/12,000 miles and the engine seized?

Very glad Hyundai paid for that.  They should have.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 16, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> My one-year-old car needs a new engine because I didn't keep up with oil changes.
> 
> On Thursday my son noticed a knocking sound that increased with the RPMs -- kind of like a playing card on a bicycle spoke. The car was really slow starting out in first. I was already scheduled for my two-months past due oil change today. Somehow, I deluded myself into believing that it was something minor. "Maybe it's the clutch," I told myself.
> 
> ...




What manufacturer?

How many miles in one year?

The reason why I ask is that Toyota is currently having issues with Sludge and there are some leagal actions in the States over it. Kia also has some issue, but it has not been enough to cause the level of legal actions.

Most car companies owners manuals do not have 3,000 miles as the recommended change. It can be as high as 11,500 or so on some vehicles. This is without synthetics. Synthetics would go longer unless they are being used under extreme conditions.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 16, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> What manufacturer?
> 
> How many miles in one year?



2006 Hyundai Elantra GT five door
Purchased August 2006
18,000 km on the odometer (just over 11,000 miles I think)







As I mentioned earlier, they were going to talk to Warranty after they took down the oil pan. Kia is a division of Hyundai, if I recall correctly. There could well be a problem, and perhaps my dealer leaning on owners to follow the service schedule to the letter. Like I said, they took care of me, and I won't take a chance with the schedule again.


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 16, 2007)

Mate, thats madness.  If you've changed oil twice in 6000 miles that should be fine.  As long as it's topped up ok.

Knocking eh?  Make sure you let us know exactly what they say the knock was...


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 16, 2007)

FieldDiscipline said:


> Knocking eh?  Make sure you let us know exactly what they say the knock was...



They said the engine was shot and are putting in a new one.


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 16, 2007)

Define shot though, it was obviously running!


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 16, 2007)

FieldDiscipline said:


> Define shot though, it was obviously running!


 
I'll get back to you on that the next time I talk to them. To be honest, they could have showed me the engine, I wouldn't know the difference. I only do gas, oil, air, windshield fluid. Everything else to do with cars is a mystery to me.


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## rutherford (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm firmly with the "you got hosed" group.

And, I don't think you should take it.  If the engine went this early, it's due to manufacturer's defect and has nothing to do with your maintenance.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 16, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> 2006 Hyundai Elantra GT five door
> Purchased August 2006
> 18,000 km on the odometer (just over 11,000 miles I think)
> 
> ...




Here are a few links form a quick Google search:

http://www.texas-cars-and-dealerships.com/engine-oil-sludge-gel.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/hyundai_sludge.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/hyundai_engine_failure.html

http://www.lawcash.com/attorney/4968/toyota-motor-sales-usa-lawsuit.asp

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm


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## FieldDiscipline (Sep 17, 2007)

Gordon Nore said:


> I'll get back to you on that the next time I talk to them. To be honest, they could have showed me the engine, I wouldn't know the difference. I only do gas, oil, air, windshield fluid. Everything else to do with cars is a mystery to me.



As long as it's fixed without charge, I suppose that's the main thing.  Would be very interested to know though.  Definately make sure you make clear that its not your fault and a defect.


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## OUMoose (Sep 17, 2007)

Senjojutsu said:


> A small rant, similar thoughts to previous posts:
> 
> If all the Motor Oil and Oil Filter companies spend tens of millions of advertising dollars annually telling us guys how chemically superior their oil fluids are - or how brilliantly engineered their oil filters are, then please tell me why those same companies still say their products still have to be changed once every three thousand miles just like the crappy stuff we were using back in the 1970's?
> 
> Rant off/



A guy I work with drives a Durango with full synthetic in the engine, tranny, and rear end.  According to him, after 7500 miles, he changes the oil filter, and goes another 7500 before changing the oil.  Says it comes out as clean as it went in.    braver man than I am, but I guess it works.


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## Bigshadow (Sep 17, 2007)

I agree with everyone, the over due oil change sounds bogus.  There is something amiss here.  Short of being out of oil, or the oil pick up being clogged, I cannot see how old oil would have caused that kind of damage.


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## Gordon Nore (Sep 17, 2007)

rutherford said:


> I'm firmly with the "you got hosed" group.
> 
> And, I don't think you should take it.  If the engine went this early, it's due to manufacturer's defect and has nothing to do with your maintenance.



Warranty office has already agreed to cover the costs -- so I do suspect a problem at their end that they would rather not discuss. As long as they're paying for it, they can tell me whatever.


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## Senjojutsu (Sep 18, 2007)

Hello all, 

When I wrote my little rant I realize someone could bring up the issue of synthetic oil, and how those new type oils have increased the time duration between changes.

Also please realize I tend to use those franchised grease monkey places for my oil changes. With a coupon it is not that much more expensive than using dealers and is more time convenient. Although these places try to sell you the world of other services while you are waiting in the lobby. Just say NO.

and those franchises always want you back three thousand miles later per their window sticky and not per car manufacturer's guidelines.

That after I have read all the oil company marketing brochures in the lobby about how great the oil is that just got put into my engine.


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 19, 2007)

If it was made into a commercial it must be correct? Right ?

Just a radio ad that mentions the Sludge issue with Toyota


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 19, 2007)

An article about the Toyota Recalls last year:



> *Roger Simmermaker is the author of How Americans Can Buy American: The Power of Consumer Patriotism. He also writes "Buy American Mention of the Week"*
> *---------------*
> *Thunder on the Tundra: **Toyota** Trucks Ahead in 2007 Recalls*
> 
> ...


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