# Bruce  Lee is dead buried and rotten



## DaleDugas (Apr 17, 2017)

Lee is dead, buried and rotten.

His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.

Chuck Norris is still alive and kicking and almost 80.

Sammo Hung, who is a big well trained fat man, is still alive and kicking.

Jacky Chan who has broken more bones than Lee ever did, is still alive and kicking.

Why is there so much worship of a man, who is dead, buried and rotten?


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 17, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Lee is dead, buried and rotten.
> 
> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.
> 
> ...



well ill give him a pass, he died from a brain aneurysm.  not exactly something that you can prevent


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## Buka (Apr 17, 2017)

Personally, I think there's admiration rather than worship. I for one, admired him. That's not to say his Kung Fu was good or not, I don't know anything about Kung Fu. His, yours or anyone elses.

But I still liked listening to his thoughts on fighting, punching and kicking.


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## Headhunter (Apr 17, 2017)

Simply because in his 32 years he did more in martial arts than any of those others you've listed have done in their whole lives and I don't know why you're using the fact he's dead against him he died with a brain aneurism nothing he could've done to prevent that.

As for his Kung fu not being good how do you know? You ever train with him? You ever spar with him? Ever meet him? That's the only way to truly know if someone's good or not.

I'm not his biggest fan and do think some people overrate him but to say he was rubbish is simply ridiculous he was obviously very skilled and in perfect physical condition.


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## oaktree (Apr 17, 2017)

Well, as hoshin said he died from brain swelling so not much one can do about it.
I think a lot of people are so interested in Bruce Lee is they belong to one of 2 type of camps. The first being memorize by his flashy movie moves, his fortune cookie movie quotes. The other camp sees value on his jkd style and find his approach to be a realistic approach thanks to the likes of Dan and other Senior students of Bruce Lee.
I don't think he is the best i do think he has one of the most impact on martial arts in the last century.


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## Buka (Apr 17, 2017)

I agree, Oaktree, I believe he had one of the biggest impacts on Martial Arts in the last century. At least here in the U.S.  Him and (I can hear the screaming now) Dana White.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 17, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Lee is dead, buried and rotten.
> 
> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.
> 
> ...


There is great power in dying at the right time and place.


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## Paul_D (Apr 17, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.


What is the standard Kung Fu defence against an allergic reaction to persciption medication?


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## Charlemagne (Apr 17, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> What is the standard Kung Fu defense against an allergic reaction to prescription medication?



Exactly right.  

What a stupid claim to make.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 17, 2017)

A few points at random ...

Bruce Lee is widely admired (especially by the general public) more than other martial artists of equal or greater accomplishment largely because he was a charismatic film performer. For some reason, many people are star-struck by action heroes on the big screen. That's the reason people tell jokes about "Chuck Norris facts" rather than "Joe Lewis facts" or "Mike Stone facts" or "Bill Wallace facts".

His early death probably added to the pop culture mystique, in a sort of James Dean way. No one had to see Bruce Lee getting old and fat, getting involved in scandals, making embarrassingly tacky commercials, etc.

In addition to his pop culture fame, he was an genuinely influential martial artist. He was neither the first nor last to espouse the ideas that he did, but he was one of the most visible proponents at the time of independence from style. Ironically, given that outlook, he founded a martial art which has survived in various forms and lineages and is being trained by plenty of people today. Some very good martial artists trained with him at the time and some very good martial artists have carried his legacy.

According to people who trained with him, he was a very dedicated and very talented martial artist. Of course, those kind of claims are made about just about every famous martial artist, but I take the judgment of guys like Joe Lewis pretty seriously.

(Those last two points could be made about a bunch of great martial artists who are not as well known or venerated as Lee, but most of them weren't film stars.)

Jacky Chan and Sammo Hung have only marketed themselves as performers, not as great martial artists. (Although I'm certain both could handle themselves in a fight.)

Chuck Norris is like Lee in that he is a genuinely high-level martial artist (who also created his own style), but is famous primarily due to movies and TV. He's not as charismatic as Lee and didn't get the mystique from dying young, but he gets a least a bit of the same mythologizing.



DaleDugas said:


> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.



Hmmm ... so the test for having good Kung fu is to live to at least 77 years old? I wonder how many CMA lineages you've just insulted. I'm pretty certain at least a few prominent CMA sifus have died earlier than that.

On the other hand, Bruce's student Dan Inosanto is still going strong at age 80 and looks better than most martial arts instructors half his age, so maybe Bruce passed some kind of good Kung Fu on to him after all?



DaleDugas said:


> Why is there so much worship of a man, who is dead, buried and rotten?



I'm not much for worship of anyone, alive or dead, but I do note that veneration of past instructors is pretty standard in much of the martial arts world. I was at a WC seminar this past weekend and at the end the instructor had us bow to the picture of Yip Man, who has been dead, buried, and rotten longer than Bruce Lee. When I took Judo classes, we typically bowed to a portrait of Jigaro Kano, who has been dead, buried, and rotten much longer than either one.


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## Danny T (Apr 17, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Lee is dead, buried and rotten.
> 
> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.
> 
> ...


Worship...Nah. Respect for what he was able to do and the many people who have been drawn to the martial arts because of the interest he generated.

There have been many persons who have influenced the world in good ways who are now dead, buried and rotten yet have the respect of thousands who never knew or met them.

Is there no one with in the martial arts who you hold in high regard and respect that is dead, buried and rotten?


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 17, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Lee is dead, buried and rotten.
> 
> His Kung Fu was not that good, or he would be still alive.
> 
> ...


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## Buka (Apr 18, 2017)

It's one of the reasons I love this place so much. A more intelligent man than me would just let it go, but I have to say I'll wear that dislike rating as proudly as a back stage pass to a Sinatra concert.


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## Buka (Apr 18, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> A few points at random ...
> 
> Bruce Lee is widely admired (especially by the general public) more than other martial artists of equal or greater accomplishment largely because he was a charismatic film performer. For some reason, many people are star-struck by action heroes on the big screen. That's the reason people tell jokes about "Chuck Norris facts" rather than "Joe Lewis facts" or "Mike Stone facts" or "Bill Wallace facts".
> 
> ...



I had a lot of late night talks in my kitchen with Joe about Bruce Lee. There was a certain amount of disharmony between them. But I figure that was an Alpha Male butting heads type thing. But there was also a lot of respect, dead serious respect, about Martial Arts and as each other as Martial Artists. Most importantly (at least to me) as fighters. That always carried a lot of weight to me. Joe never pussy footed around with his opinion of fighters.


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## mograph (Apr 18, 2017)

He had some skill. 
He was good-looking, as far as I can tell.
He appeared confident.
He was a movie star in the genre.
He was distinctive.
He promoted himself well.
He was _the right man at the right time._
He died (arguably) young and in his prime.

Does that answer your question, Dale? 
What's going on with you? This anger (in this and the other thread) is uncharacteristic of someone of your good reputation.


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## hoshin1600 (Apr 18, 2017)

mograph said:


> Does that answer your question, Dale?
> What's going on with you? This anger (in this and the other thread) is uncharacteristic of someone of your good reputation.


im telling you all ..his profile was highjacked and has been taken over by a pod person.


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## mograph (Apr 18, 2017)

hoshin1600 said:


> im telling you all ..his profile was highjacked and has been taken over by a pod person.


I knew it!


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## Buka (Apr 18, 2017)

Mulling this a bit...there is a certain historical slant to this thread. Bruce Lee didn't get along with most traditional Chinese Arts, nor they with him.

Doesn't look like much has changed. And slamming a dead guy - now, _that's _some high octane jealousy.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 19, 2017)

Buka said:


> Mulling this a bit...there is a certain historical slant to this thread. Bruce Lee didn't get along with most traditional Chinese Arts, nor they with him.
> 
> Doesn't look like much has changed. And slamming a dead guy - now, _that's _some high octane jealousy.


Not to defend, but Bruce Lee does seem bigger than his britches, in some circles.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 19, 2017)

Touch Of Death said:


> Not to defend, but Bruce Lee does seem bigger than his britches, in some circles.


Oh, there is definitely adulation of Bruce Lee by some which goes well beyond that for other martial artists of equal or greater accomplishment. I can totally understand rolling ones eyes at that sort of cult of personality. Dale's post just seemed to go beyond dismissing the celebrity hero worship and into anger territory.


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## Charlemagne (Apr 19, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Dale's post just seemed to go beyond dismissing the celebrity hero worship and into anger territory.



Not to mention the stupidity of suggesting that someone died of a brain aneurysm because their kung fu was weak.


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## mograph (Apr 19, 2017)

Charlemagne said:


> Not to mention the stupidity of suggesting that someone died of a brain aneurysm because their kung fu was weak.



According to Wikipedia, it wasn't even a brain aneurysm:
_"Donald Teare, a forensic scientist recommended by Scotland Yard who had overseen over 1,000 autopsies, was assigned to the Lee case. His conclusion was "death by misadventure" caused by an *acute cerebral edema due to a reaction to compounds present in the combination medication Equagesic.*[93]"_

Bruce Lee - Wikipedia

A brain aneurysm is _local_: Intracranial aneurysm - Wikipedia . Maybe Dale is confusing a _local_ aneurysm with a _general_ swelling (cerebral edema). 

(All according to Wikipedia, such as it is.)

At any rate, I don't think that good kung fu would have prevented the reaction to the medication or alleviated the cerebral edema.


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## drop bear (Apr 20, 2017)

Paul_D said:


> What is the standard Kung Fu defence against an allergic reaction to persciption medication?



Get a doctor that doesn't prescribe cocane and steroids


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 20, 2017)

Buka said:


> It's one of the reasons I love this place so much. A more intelligent man than me would just let it go, but I have to say I'll wear that dislike rating as proudly as a back stage pass to a Sinatra concert.


There are some people's dislikes that are as self-affirming as other people's likes.


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## drop bear (Apr 20, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> There are some people's dislikes that are as self-affirming as other people's likes.



Yeah I got dislike bombed there at one point.

He did about 5 posts in one hit. Some sort of feelings thing or something i imagine.


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## TSDTexan (Apr 21, 2017)

Haters gonna hate.

Lee had huge part in bringing exposure to martial arts and helped create the vibrant market in the USA.

I don't worship him. But I value his role in being the king of kung full flicks, as free advertising for all schools, clubs, gyms, dojo's and dojangs.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 21, 2017)

I am probably a weird martial artist.  I was never really into martial arts movies growing up.  I do remember watching "Kung Fu"  on TV, but it was hit or miss whether or not I happened to catch it.  I wasn't that much into it.  I also don't do video games or computer games, never have.  I love anime, but the martial arts ones are only interesting to me as much as the story line goes, the fight scenes and techniques and so on don't do anything for me.

However, I knew who Bruce Lee was and what he represented.  I realize that Bruce Lee and others of his era had a very large impact on the amount of real-world training going on out there; especially in the USA.  I have no doubt that there would be far fewer martial arts schools if the time of the martial arts movies and stars had not existed.

That's pretty much it.  I don't worship any martial artist living or dead.  I have respect for those who came before me and left their mark on the martial arts world.  I am thankful that their impact paved the way for the large variety and scope of training available today.  There are no posters of martial arts figures on my wall and there never were any.

That is all.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 21, 2017)

@DaleDugas 

Brother Dale, what's going on?

If you see this and wish to PM me, please do

Xue


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## Hanzou (Apr 22, 2017)

I think the most ironic things about Bruce Lee's effect on martial culture are the following;

1. Karate boomed instead of Kung Fu, despite most people entering Karate dojos because of Lee.
2. Jeet Kun Do becoming dogged down by the exact things that Lee opposed in Wing Chun.
3. Bruce Lee essentially advocating the value Mixed Martial Arts decades before the first UFC took place.


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## blindsage (Apr 29, 2017)

Bruce was dope.  But I still like Dale.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 29, 2017)

blindsage said:


> Bruce was dope.  But I still like Dale.



Well, I don't think Bruce was a dope.... But I do still like Dale


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 29, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Well, I don't think Bruce was a dope.... But I do still like Dale


Not sure if that was a joke or not, but just in case ...
"Bruce was dope" (I.e. cool/rad/neat/etc) =/= "Bruce was a dope" (I.e. stupid)


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## JP3 (Apr 29, 2017)

DaleDugas said:


> Why is there so much worship of a man, who is dead, buried and rotten?


Because I enjoyed his movies? Is that good enough?  Of course, I liked those other guy's movies too.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 29, 2017)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Not sure if that was a joke or not, but just in case ...
> "Bruce was dope" (I.e. cool/rad/neat/etc) =/= "Bruce was a dope" (I.e. stupid)



Yo, what up, you don't think I'm down wit that.


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## blindsage (Apr 30, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yo, what up, you don't think I'm down wit that.



I mean, you are old.


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## BuckerooBonzai (May 1, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yo, what up, you don't think I'm down wit that.


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## Pepsiman (May 5, 2017)

While I don't worship Bruce Lee, I think he is among the greatest martial artists. He used his training to cultivate a very beautiful, practical style; his philosophies were profound but easy to understand. But I think the real reason Lee is so admired, even _decades _after his passing, was because of how influential he was. I personally think he played a VERY huge role in getting the general public interested in not just martial arts, but fitness as well. On top of that, look at all the homages you see in any action movie or video game! There hasn't been a single fighting game I've played (save for Soulcalibur) that did NOT honor him or use Jeet Kune Do as a fighting form.

Bruce Lee may be long gone, but his work lives on to the point that he's become practically immortal. That's why he's so beloved.


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2017)

Pepsiman said:


> While I don't worship Bruce Lee, I think he is among the greatest martial artists. He used his training to cultivate a very beautiful, practical style; his philosophies were profound but easy to understand. But I think the real reason Lee is so admired, even _decades _after his passing, was because of how influential he was. I personally think he played a VERY huge role in getting the general public interested in not just martial arts, but fitness as well. On top of that, look at all the homages you see in any action movie or video game! There hasn't been a single fighting game I've played (save for Soulcalibur) that did NOT honor him or use Jeet Kune Do as a fighting form.
> 
> Bruce Lee may be long gone, but his work lives on to the point that he's become practically immortal. That's why he's so beloved.


No doubt about that but I think the problem is there's people who really overrate him and think he can think he can beat everyone on earth. Of course he couldn't no one can. People get confused with the real lee and the movie characters he played. E.g michael jai white said in an interview he believed he could beat him because he's a lot bigger and has been training longer which makes sense and I believe he could but the lee fanboys absolutely destroyed him saying he was a joke and lee would win easily nonsense like that.


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## Pepsiman (May 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> No doubt about that but I think the problem is there's people who really overrate him and think he can think he can beat everyone on earth. Of course he couldn't no one can. People get confused with the real lee and the movie characters he played. E.g michael jai white said in an interview he believed he could beat him because he's a lot bigger and has been training longer which makes sense and I believe he could but the lee fanboys absolutely destroyed him saying he was a joke and lee would win easily nonsense like that.



Bruce Lee versus Micheal Jai White would be an interesting match-up. Kung Fu versus Karate, which I'd be all for 

Let's break it down, real quick:

*Micheal Jai White*
6'1, 207 lbs.

Styles learned include _Shotokan Karate_ (3rd Dan Black Belt), _Goju Ryu Karate_ (3rd Dan Black Belt), _Kyokushin Karate _(3rd Degree Black Belt), _Taekwondo_ (2nd Degree Black Belt), and _Tang Soo Doo_ (1st Degree Black Belt). White also received instruction in _Japanese Jujutsu_, _Wushu_, and _Okinawan Kubudo_ (said to also hold a Black Belt in this, also). White may have learned other styles, but I'm not certain what they are.

*Bruce Lee*
5'7, 141 (at his heaviest)

Styles learned include _Jeet Kune Do_ (innovated), _Wing Chun_, and _Wu-Style Tai Chi Chuan_. It's also said that he had instruction in _Boxing_, _Fencing_, _Taekwondo_, and _Judo_. I'm personally unsure what rankings (if any) Lee received during his lifetime. 


Okay, so on paper, White appears to have a comfortable edge over Lee. While it's true White learned more styles and is far bigger and stronger than Lee, Lee's athleticism and speed were through the roof, and was known for his precision. White would still have to be careful around Lee whenever in kicking distance, and would be wise to mainly target Lee's legs in order to effectively neutralize his speed; Lee, on the other hand, simply could not afford White getting up close. What Lee would have to do is try to force White into keeping his distance, picking him apart from the outside.


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2017)

Pepsiman said:


> Bruce Lee versus Micheal Jai White would be an interesting match-up. Kung Fu versus Karate, which I'd be all for
> 
> Let's break it down, real quick:
> 
> ...


Jai white simply also trained with better people he's sparred with champion boxers and mma fighters where lee trained with point fighters


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## Steve (May 6, 2017)

Michael Jai White is pushing 50, but Bruce Lee is dead, soooo... I think MJW has the edge.


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## JR 137 (May 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Jai white simply also trained with better people he's sparred with champion boxers and mma fighters where lee trained with point fighters



Those point fighters weren't today's point fighters by any stretch of the imagination.  They were more full-contact kickboxer than they were tag playing point fighter.


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## blindsage (May 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Jai white simply also trained with better people he's sparred with champion boxers and mma fighters where lee trained with point fighters


Jesse Glover was a champion Judoka, and Ed Hart was a professional boxer.  They both clearly stated Bruce was well beyond their skill.


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2017)

blindsage said:


> Jesse Glover was a champion Judoka, and Ed Hart was a professional boxer.  They both clearly stated Bruce was well beyond their skill.


Okay I never said he wasn't


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## blindsage (May 6, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Okay I never said he wasn't


Maybe I misread your intent, but it sure seemed like you were implying that Bruce never trained with anybody with real tested skill, aside from some point fighters.


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## Headhunter (May 6, 2017)

blindsage said:


> Maybe I misread your intent, but it sure seemed like you were implying that Bruce never trained with anybody with real tested skill, aside from some point fighters.


Not just that jai white has trained with better people


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## JP3 (May 13, 2017)

Steve said:


> Michael Jai White is pushing 50, but Bruce Lee is dead, soooo... I think MJW has the edge.


But, what if Bruce came back, like Michael Jackson in the Thriller video? What then?

Or, he's back like a leader of the Zombie Apocalypse?  Well, Zombies are slow... so, maybe MJW still would have the edge. You're right.


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## Jenna (May 13, 2017)

JP3 said:


> But, what if Bruce came back, like Michael Jackson in the Thriller video? What then?
> 
> Or, he's back like a leader of the Zombie Apocalypse?  Well, Zombies are slow... so, maybe MJW still would have the edge. You're right.


Wait.. tell me you are not gambling your whole entire defence on slow zombies!! you have to mind for World War Z and I am Legend and Zombieland etc etc and add them into your training regime soon! Like very very soon! before it is too late! and bring your sneakers cos we are going to be running! And bring your Michael Jackson vhs cassette too cos I reckon it distract zombies.. I have seen it working! #alltrue


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## Steve (May 13, 2017)

Jenna said:


> Wait.. tell me you are not gambling your whole entire defence on slow zombies!! you have to mind for World War Z and I am Legend and Zombieland etc etc and add them into your training regime soon! Like very very soon! before it is too late! and bring your sneakers cos we are going to be running! And bring your Michael Jackson vhs cassette too cos I reckon it distract zombies.. I have seen it working! #alltrue


Everybody knows that there are two kinds of zombies: runners and shamblers.   Worst thing ever would be to mistake one for the other.


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## mograph (May 13, 2017)

Jenna said:


> Wait.. tell me you are not gambling your whole entire defence on slow zombies!! you have to mind for World War Z and I am Legend and Zombieland etc etc and add them into your training regime soon! Like very very soon! before it is too late! and bring your sneakers cos we are going to be running! And bring your Michael Jackson vhs cassette too cos I reckon it distract zombies.. I have seen it working! #alltrue


Cardio.


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## Xue Sheng (May 13, 2017)

Many years ago a friend of mine came up with this movie premiss that was more of a joke

Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, and Jean Claud VanDam staring in.... "We dug up Bruce Lee and kicked his butt.....hopefully he ain't fakin'"


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