# Five States With The Most Gun Violence Article....



## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 5, 2014)

Here is an interesting read:

5 states with the most gun violence - MSN Money


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## billc (Aug 5, 2014)

They are also confusing suicide with gun violence...



> Suicide is the leading cause of gun-related deaths across the nation in recent years. Of the 32,351 firearm deaths in 2011, nearly 20,000 were suicides. In all but one state with the most gun-related deaths, suicide accounted for the majority of fatalities. Six states &#8212; Alaska, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Montana, Arkansas, and New Mexico &#8212; reported more than 10.0 firearm-related suicides per 100,000 residents, versus the national rate of 6.2.





> *6. Montana*
> *> Age-adjusted firearm death rate:* 16.3 per 100,000
> *> Firearm deaths 2002-2011:* 1,476 (12th lowest)
> *> 2011 Violent crime rate:* 267.5 per 100,000 (17th lowest)
> ...





> *9. New Mexico*
> *> Age-adjusted firearm death rate:* 14.8 per 100,000
> *> Firearm deaths 2002-2011:* 2,964 (20th lowest)
> *> 10 yr. annualized death rate:* 15.1 per 100,000 (9th highest)
> ...



New Mexico is a border state...it is tough living next to a country with all those drug cartels...



> *4. Wyoming*
> *> Age-adjusted firearm death rate*: 16.7 per 100,000
> *> Firearm deaths 2002-2011:* 844 (7th lowest)
> *> 2011 Violent crime rate*: 219.3 per 100,000 (7th lowest)
> ...





> *No. 3: Alaska*
> 
> 
> *Age-adjusted firearm death rate:* 16.9 per 100,000
> ...



Considering how many gun murders occur in the City of Chicago...they exceed the whole state of Wyoming by a large number...2014 isn't over yet and the city of chicago has a gun murder rate of 204...gang and drug related shootings for the most part, confined to a small area of the city...usually only a few blocks in area...and the fact that Chicago needs 2000 police officers, 1000 outright to fill positions, and another 1000 out due to vacations and sick leave, but spends money on everything but the police...leads to a high murder rate...




> Gun owners are also not required to register their weapons in any of these states.



To date...no one has ever been able to explain what registering a gun would actually do to stop crime, mass shootings or suicides...it sounds good, but in reality does nothing to stop or solve crimes...but they keep pushing it anyway...the same with background checks...

For the most part, they are mixing suicides and accidents with gun violence...the three are not the same...

And the big numbers...on average, 11,000 people are murdered by guns in the whole U.S. each year...and the important point about firearms...over 100,000 lives are saved using guns each year...and that number comes from hemmenway, an anti-gun scholar...and the 100,000 number doesn't include the number of crimes prevented when the victim either shoots, kills or captures their criminal attacker using a gun...

From the article...



> Suicide is the leading cause of gun-related deaths across the nation in recent years. Of the 32,351 firearm deaths in 2011, nearly 20,000 were suicides.



so...about 12,351 gun deaths that weren't suicide...

I wonder what the author would say about the fact that Japan...with absolute gun control laws...has a higher suicide rate than the U.S. where gun ownership is a Right...

A list of suicide by country...the U.S. is 33 on the list...with many countries lower on the list with stricter gun control laws...

South Korea, Japan, Russia are higher on the list and have more gun control than the U.S....just as a quick look...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

This is an excuse that chicago uses for gun violence...



> &#8220;As long as there are weak gun law states, even strong gun law states will see gun violence.&#8221;



There are states where citizens own and carry guns and have lots of gun stores...and they don't have the gun violence problem that chicago has where before Macdonald and Heller, law abiding citizens could not register hand guns in the city, and no gun stores were allowed to exist...


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 5, 2014)

billc said:


> They are also confusing suicide with gun violence...



I wouldn't say they are confusing it but instead are including it when suicide is committed with a firearm.  They were pretty clear on firearm deaths by homicide per state and then they also included firearm deaths by suicide per state.

Now, you and I would agree that homicide by firearm is different than suicide by firearm but looking through each state they do account for that.  I am certain also that the next statistical analysis will probably have Illinois with Chicago in there but it also might not as the state by itself may have less of a percentage of firearm related fatalities per 100,000.  It is a big state after with a lot of people.  While Chicago has issues there are a lot of parts of Chicago that does not see the levels of gun violence found in south Chicago.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 17, 2014)

billc said:


> To date...no one has ever been able to explain what registering a gun would actually do to stop crime, mass shootings or suicides...it sounds good, but in reality does nothing to stop or solve crimes...but they keep pushing it anyway...the same with background checks...



Supposedly registering guns cuts down on straw purchases. If somebody has a felony record and thus they're prohibited from owning guns, if they were to get their friend who doesn't have a record to buy the gun for them (a straw purchase) if the gun had to be registered at the time of purchase that way they would be able to trace it back to the friend who did the straw purchase. At least, that's what people who are in favor of gun registration claim.


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## drop bear (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah registration forces the people who own guns to be the people who are allowed to own guns. You can't loose them in boating accidents.

This makes criminals have to expend more effort getting a gun and more risk using a gun than a responsible gun owner.

And tacked on to that would be a minimum standard so that 12 year olds are not firing uzies on full auto.

It is like that mission statement. The I don't carry because I am afraid I carry cos I am awsome something something. It is a commitment towards actually doing that.

Otherwise you can carry to kill people and we all support your right to do so.


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## billc (Sep 18, 2014)

registration does not effect crime or mass shootings....

Gun Facts | Licensing and Registration | Gun Control



> Myth: Gun registration will help police find suspects
> 
> 
> Fact: Registration is required in Hawaii, Chicago and Washington DC. Yet there has not been a single case where registration was instrumental in identifying someone who committed a crime. 21 Criminals very rarely leave their guns at the scene of the crime. Would-be criminals also virtually never get licenses or register their weapons.
> ...



The article looks at the other myths involving gun registration....it would not have stopped the half dozen or so mass shooters either...

The only people it impacts are the law abiding....when they get enough votes,to ban certain categories of weapons....


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 18, 2014)

billc said:


> registration does not effect crime or mass shootings....
> 
> Gun Facts | Licensing and Registration | Gun Control
> 
> ...



What about straw purchases? Does gun registration cut down on that?


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## billc (Sep 20, 2014)

No....the only thing that stops straw purchases is catching a felon with a gun....then getting him to turn evidence against the straw purchase guy...then you arrest that guy...but the purchase still happened and the crime was comitted....

the true purpose of registration is to stream line the turning in of  a category of gun once the anti gunners get the political power to have them banned...registering "assault rifles" preceded the later ban on assault rifles....separating the registration from the ban is an easier method than trying to do both at once....if done together you would get less compliance...separated,  more people are willing to register their guns on the false assumption that it will help stop crime....realizing too late that it made it easier to know who had what guns when it came time to turn them in or to track them when the law abiding citizen passed away...since some weapons are grandfathered in until the death of the original owner....


Registration is only for later banning...it doesn't stop criminal activity or mass shootings...and simply inconveniences law,abiding citizens and intimidates them...

http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm



> Registration and licensing have no effect on crime, as criminals, by definition, do not obey laws. Indeed, a national survey of prisoners conducted by Wright and Rossi for the Department of Justice found that 82% agreed that "gun laws only affect law-abiding citizens; criminals will always be able to get guns."
> 
> 
> Further, felons are constitutionally exempt from a gun registration requirement. According to the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Haynes v. U.S., since felons are prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, compelling them to register firearms would violate the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination. 8 Only law-abiding citizens would be required to comply with registration--citizens who have neither committed crime nor have any intention of doing so.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 20, 2014)

Well with registration, it might not stop all straw purchases but at least they're able to get the guys who do the straw purchases. If they recover the gun than that is the evidence they need to get the guy who did the straw purchase, by tracing it by its serial number to the guy who did the straw purchase. They might've not prevented the straw purchase in the first place but at least they get the guy who does it. Im not taking the position myself that registration is a good idea, Im just pointing out the arguments used by the people who think its a good idea. To be good at taking a position, you also have to be good at arguing the other side.


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## billc (Sep 22, 2014)

Let's say they catch a felon with a gun...they ask him...where did you get the gun...we will help you with your sentence if you give up the guy...he gives up the guy...the police arrest him for the illegal sale...no registration required....no extra paper work for police...no hassling regular citizens who automatically become criminals if they refuse to register their guns...

The police set up a fake internet site to sell guns...when felons show up to buy guns...they arrest them...again...no paper work is needed on regular citizens...

A drug user steals a gun...sells gun to drug dealer for drugs...drug dealer sells gun to criminal...criminal is arrested with the gun...since the gun was stolen...there is no useful point for the registration of the gun...then you follow the trail back from criminal, to drug dealer, to drug user...no paper trail to law abiding citizen...

Registration is the precursor to bans and confiscation...that is the real point...

Also...criminals...by law...are not required to register their illegal guns...it comes from a Supreme Court case that stated requiring felons to register illegal guns would be self incriminating....and therefore UnConstitutional...

It was also pointed out to me that on internet sales...they have to deliver them to a licensed gun dealer...who then does the background check...if they don't do that...the seller is breaking the law...again...no registration scheme will catch the guy who does this illegally...


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