# Combining a martial art and a functional training?



## The Great Duck (May 16, 2019)

I'm 24 (soon to be 25) years old, am cca 184 cm tall and weigh cca 100 kg.
I never did sports in my life, but recently got fed up with being overweight and in bad shape in general, and five weeks ago I started attending this functional training at a gym (90 minutes on tuesday and thursdays) - and so far it's been pretty good. I already feel a slight improvement in my endurance, strength and balance.

OTOH, I'm also interested in martial arts, and have been considering starting training one of them.
The same gym offers boxing, MT; BJJ, kenpo, wrestling and taekwondo - now, as wrestling and boxing trainings are held on mondays, wednesdays and fridays, for now I'm mostly interested in these two arts - boxing being the more attractive one.
However, I'm concerned about the possibility of training 5 days in a row being too much and possibly causing certain health issues; I've also seen advice that a beginner should just pick a single art and just stick to it, and forget about training any other arts or sports; then there's also advice that one should train one art more frequently rather than combine two of them - which makes sense - however, most of the gyms don't seem to offer programmes with more than 3 trainings per week.
So, my question is: do you think combining boxing and a functional training and training 5 days in a row that way is a good idea - or should I just stick to the functional training for now and possibly add boxing once I get in better shape?


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## jobo (May 16, 2019)

The Great Duck said:


> I'm 24 (soon to be 25) years old, am cca 184 cm tall and weigh cca 100 kg.
> I never did sports in my life, but recently got fed up with being overweight and in bad shape in general, and five weeks ago I started attending this functional training at a gym (90 minutes on tuesday and thursdays) - and so far it's been pretty good. I already feel a slight improvement in my endurance, strength and balance.
> 
> OTOH, I'm also interested in martial arts, and have been considering starting training one of them.
> ...


is functional strenth traing where you stand on a beach ball and ballance a goldfish bowl on you head? if so scrap that and go and do some proper strengh training. 

no one knows what your physical condition is better than you or how intensive the training is 7ntill you go, so go and make an inform decision on how often you can train, when you stop aching you can train again. after a few weeks youl stop aching sooner
yes pick one ma at least for now and boxing or wrestling  should get you very,very fit fairly quickly after 5 weeks of either  youl notice more than a slight improvement in your fitness


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## drop bear (May 16, 2019)

Are the people who gave you that advice elite fighters who are exceptional at their craft?


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## drop bear (May 16, 2019)

I think the issue with over training is two fold at your level. 

1.  its a bit hard until you get used to it. 

2. You won't look as cool if you are training against fresh guys who are doing half as much.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2019)

The Great Duck said:


> I'm 24 (soon to be 25) years old, am cca 184 cm tall and weigh cca 100 kg.
> I never did sports in my life, but recently got fed up with being overweight and in bad shape in general, and five weeks ago I started attending this functional training at a gym (90 minutes on tuesday and thursdays) - and so far it's been pretty good. I already feel a slight improvement in my endurance, strength and balance.
> 
> OTOH, I'm also interested in martial arts, and have been considering starting training one of them.
> ...


I'm less concerned than others about whether you start with a single art or not. In my opinion and experience, the instructors' ability to work with that matters. MMA folks do this all the time, and seem to not suffer dramatically. Surely some of their fundamentals in one area are delayed by the shared focus with another area, but they make that up with a better understanding of the range of options - and probably make faster progress once the foundation is laid. So, if multiple styles are offered in the same place, there's probably not an issue. (If you took MT at that gym and Judo from someone who didn't understand MT or had no interest in helping integrate them, you'd probably have difficulty.)

As to the functional fitness, it's questionable how "functional" it is. But it does get you sweating, develops strength (probably not as well as simply doing good strength training, but I think it's more fun), and sometimes gets better cardio benefit than strength training alone. It'll also help develop the support muscles early on (which is harder to do with some strength training, though it does get there). As with the martial arts training, the quality of the instructor matters more than the style of training chosen.

EDIT: I forgot the overtraining question. Listen to your body. If your muscles are really tight from training the day before, you're probably at more risk for an injury, so go slower and warm up longer. Don't overdo things, and you'll be okay. As a beginner, you may need to back off a bit to let your body adapt, but many of us have trained 5+ days per week without problems. Start a little slow, and ramp it up until you find where you're a bit sore the next workout, but able to loosen up and get some intensity without injury. Try to live in that area as much as you can.


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## DocWard (May 17, 2019)

I had to look up the term "functional fitness." With that in mind, I'm not a personal trainer, so you can take the advice I'm about to give for what it is worth to you.

I will assume you've already checked in with your primary healthcare provider. If not, I would recommend it.

You will likely make quicker gains  across the board if you are working out in some manner five days per week. The concern, at least initially, is that the musculoskeletal system, particularly those seldom used supporting muscles and connective tissue will be weak and subject to injury from overuse. This is alleviated by doing different types of exercise from one day to the next. Strength training one day, aerobic the next, for example. It appears the "functional fitness" concept is intended to limit some of these injury concerns, and may make a reasonable starting point for more.

You will lose weight quicker, and keep it off, if you decide on a healthy *sustainable* diet. By sustainable, I mean one that you can realistically see yourself following for years to come. This means not depriving yourself. You didn't gain the weight in one week, you shouldn't expect to lose it and keep it off in one week.

As for working across multiple disciplines at once, I would say look at your schedule. If you are wanting to be in the gym five days per week, and that means you need to work in a couple of different disciplines, then accept that you will probably not make gains in the art as quickly as those who dedicate themselves to a single art. You will make gains though.

You're in this life for the long haul. It's the journey, not the destination.

Good luck!


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## Buka (May 17, 2019)

Welcome to Martial Talk, Great Duck. 

Brother, if you can spend three or four days a week at a decent boxing gym you won't need anything else to get in pretty good shape.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 17, 2019)

The Great Duck said:


> my question is: do you think combining boxing and a functional training and training 5 days in a row that way is a good idea - or should I just stick to the functional training for now and possibly add boxing once I get in better shape?


To start from

1. functional training and add on MA training afterward is called forward search method.
2. MA training and add on functional training afterward is called backward search method.

I prefer 2 over 1. When I train functional, I will know exactly which MA technique that I am trying to "enhance". In other words, I like to set up my goal first. I then try to find a path to reach it


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> To start from
> 
> 1. functional training and add on MA training afterward is called forward search method.
> 2. MA training and add on functional training afterward is called backward search method.
> ...


That approach is a good one, if MA is the focus of your functional (I'd call it "good strength") training. If the functional training is for overall health benefits, and so is the MA training, then the MA isn't the goal for the functional training.

Even with as much as I focus on my MA in many areas of life, I only occasionally think specifically about it in my fitness training. I don't use cardio training specifically to improve my sparring performance - that's a nice side benefit.


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## Kung Fu Wang (May 17, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I only occasionally think specifically about it in my fitness training. I don't use cardio training specifically to improve my sparring performance - that's a nice side benefit.


My Chinese wrestling teacher told me that both running and rope jumping can raise my gravity center and make my body float, which is bad for my wrestling training. I still feel guilty about my running even today.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> My Chinese wrestling teacher told me that both running and rope jumping can raise my gravity center and bad for my wrestling training. I still feel guilty about my running even today.


I think he was incorrect. I have trained beside and grappled with guys who did both, and they managed to root pretty well, and were as skilled as anyone else at getting underside.


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## drop bear (May 17, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I think he was incorrect. I have trained beside and grappled with guys who did both, and they managed to root pretty well, and were as skilled as anyone else at getting underside.



Rooting isn't being flat footed. That is almost the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 17, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Rooting isn't being flat footed. That is almost the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.


How would jump rope make you flatfooted?


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## Gerry Seymour (May 17, 2019)

drop bear said:


> Rooting isn't being flat footed. That is almost the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.


Agreed. I've known a couple of guys who, when rooted, seemed flat-footed...until they moved. Everyone else, when rooted, looked more supple.


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## drop bear (May 18, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> How would jump rope make you flatfooted?



It wouldn't.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> It wouldn't.


I don't think I understand what you're trying to say then.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 18, 2019)

drop bear said:


> It wouldn't.


It just occurred to me that you're probably just agreeing with @gpseymour . I'm so used to the two of you disagreeing, the idea didn't enter my head.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 18, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> I don't think I understand what you're trying to say then.


He was agreeing that running and jumprope don't hinder "rooting" development.


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## jobo (May 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I'm less concerned than others about whether you start with a single art or not. In my opinion and experience, the instructors' ability to work with that matters. MMA folks do this all the time, and seem to not suffer dramatically. Surely some of their fundamentals in one area are delayed by the shared focus with another area, but they make that up with a better understanding of the range of options - and probably make faster progress once the foundation is laid. So, if multiple styles are offered in the same place, there's probably not an issue. (If you took MT at that gym and Judo from someone who didn't understand MT or had no interest in helping integrate them, you'd probably have difficulty.)
> 
> As to the functional fitness, it's questionable how "functional" it is. But it does get you sweating, develops strength (probably not as well as simply doing good strength training, but I think it's more fun), and sometimes gets better cardio benefit than strength training alone. It'll also help develop the support muscles early on (which is harder to do with some strength training, though it does get there). As with the martial arts training, the quality of the instructor matters more than the style of training chosen.
> 
> EDIT: I forgot the overtraining question. Listen to your body. If your muscles are really tight from training the day before, you're probably at more risk for an injury, so go slower and warm up longer. Don't overdo things, and you'll be okay. As a beginner, you may need to back off a bit to let your body adapt, but many of us have trained 5+ days per week without problems. Start a little slow, and ramp it up until you find where you're a bit sore the next workout, but able to loosen up and get some intensity without injury. Try to live in that area as much as you can.


hmm, theres an old adage, that theres no such thing as over training, just under recovery, 2hich has a certain truth in it, it always has to be a ballance between intensity  and freqency

 if your training for fitness, as opposed to skill development, its crucial that your training is intense enough to trigger adaptation or plainly you wont adapt. much, quickly or even at all

. if that is so, then training 5 consecutive days is impossible on an  ongoing basis, if your doing that then the 8ntensity of any given session wasnt sufficient or your going to collapse with exhaustion .

however you may well develop the ability to exercis  to a very low intensity often, that not generally what people are seeking to achieve in a sporting context, though useful if you are going on a walking holiday etc


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## Gerry Seymour (May 18, 2019)

jobo said:


> hmm, theres an old adage, that theres no such thing as over training, just under recovery, 2hich has a certain truth in it, it always has to be a ballance between intensity  and freqency
> 
> if your training for fitness, as opposed to skill development, its crucial that your training is intense enough to trigger adaptation or plainly you wont adapt. much, quickly or even at all
> 
> ...


If all 5 days are that intense and have significant overlap, yes. Not all of the things the OP is talking about require that level of training. Hence my advice to listen to his body. Soreness makes a decent indicator. If you're not sore, there's usually no real added risk of injury. If you're pretty sore, you have to feel it out a bit to avoid injury, as the soreness might or might not indicate higher risk. Most of us have at one time or another in our lives been active enough in MA that we trained several days in a row at pretty high intensity, because we'd trained so that wasn't our maximum intensity. If not in MA, most have done it in other areas of sports.


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## dvcochran (May 19, 2019)

The Great Duck said:


> I'm 24 (soon to be 25) years old, am cca 184 cm tall and weigh cca 100 kg.
> I never did sports in my life, but recently got fed up with being overweight and in bad shape in general, and five weeks ago I started attending this functional training at a gym (90 minutes on tuesday and thursdays) - and so far it's been pretty good. I already feel a slight improvement in my endurance, strength and balance.
> 
> OTOH, I'm also interested in martial arts, and have been considering starting training one of them.
> ...



Welcome to the forum.
@DocWard , said it perfectly IMHO. I don't think you are grossly overweight for your height assuming you have a margin of muscle mass. It sounds like you have a workable plan, functional training twice/week and your choice of MA to study. Just listen to your body. I would start with 3-days/week and work my way up. This will avoid some of the slingshot of overdoing it, then underdoing it because you feel like crap. At some point you may choose to cross train 2 styles, but I do not think you are there yet. 
It sounds like you have a fortunate situation having one facility that offers everything so take advantage of it; and listen to what Doc said. 
Best of luck and keep in touch. Let us know how it goes.


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## mrt2 (May 19, 2019)

The Great Duck said:


> I'm 24 (soon to be 25) years old, am cca 184 cm tall and weigh cca 100 kg.
> I never did sports in my life, but recently got fed up with being overweight and in bad shape in general, an*d five weeks ago I started attending this functional training at a gym (90 minutes on tuesday and thursdays) -* and so far it's been pretty good. I already feel a slight improvement in my endurance, strength and balance.
> 
> OTOH, I'm also interested in martial arts, and have been considering starting training one of them.
> ...


Nothing like going from zero to sixty.  Seriously though.  Congratulations on your new commitment to fitness and (maybe) martial arts.

I wonder about these martial arts places that offer not 1, not 2, not 3, but 5 martial arts all under the same roof.  Getting and keeping instructors has to be difficult.  Honestly, I would pick one style and train twice a week in addition to your fitness training.  That should be plenty to keep your mind and body engaged, and give yourself time for recovery the other 3 days per week.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 19, 2019)

mrt2 said:


> Nothing like going from zero to sixty.  Seriously though.  Congratulations on your new commitment to fitness and (maybe) martial arts.
> 
> I wonder about these martial arts places that offer not 1, not 2, not 3, but 5 martial arts all under the same roof.  Getting and keeping instructors has to be difficult.  Honestly, I would pick one style and train twice a week in addition to your fitness training.  That should be plenty to keep your mind and body engaged, and give yourself time for recovery the other 3 days per week.


MMA gyms do this all the time. It's not that hard to find folks in larger areas, and if the gym is good, it's not that hard to keep them. I'd teach at someplace like that in a heartbeat - less hassle with building student attendance, less dealing with the business side of things, etc.


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## mrt2 (May 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> MMA gyms do this all the time. It's not that hard to find folks in larger areas, and if the gym is good, it's not that hard to keep them. I'd teach at someplace like that in a heartbeat - less hassle with building student attendance, less dealing with the business side of things, etc.


I was thinking more from the student's side of things.  I guess coming from a traditional martial arts background, it is all about lineage and continuity.  If it is anything like the regular gyms I have been to over the years, there will be a lot of turnover among instructors.  At least in a traditional martial arts gym, the head instructor can keep some continuity in the curicullum


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## Gerry Seymour (May 19, 2019)

mrt2 said:


> I was thinking more from the student's side of things.  I guess coming from a traditional martial arts background, it is all about lineage and continuity.  If it is anything like the regular gyms I have been to over the years, there will be a lot of turnover among instructors.  At least in a traditional martial arts gym, the head instructor can keep some continuity in the curicullum


That could be a problem. But if the instructors there are like me, once they find that, they're not going to leave unless their day job takes them away - about like a senior instructor (who isn't the CI) at a traditional dojo. If that is their day job, they're probably as stable as the CI at a traditional dojo.


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## mrt2 (May 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That could be a problem. But if the instructors there are like me, once they find that, they're not going to leave unless their day job takes them away - about like a senior instructor (who isn't the CI) at a traditional dojo. If that is their day job, they're probably as stable as the CI at a traditional dojo.


My experience with fitness classes at various gyms was of turnover, because they paid very little.   One factor you are not considering is this.  If as a part time instructor, you fail to bring in a certain number of new students or at least retain a certain number, don't be surprised if the dojo fires you and brings in someone else.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 19, 2019)

mrt2 said:


> My experience with fitness classes at various gyms was of turnover, because they paid very little.   One factor you are not considering is this.  If as a part time instructor, you fail to bring in a certain number of new students or at least retain a certain number, don't be surprised if the dojo fires you and brings in someone else.


That probably varies by location. If the gym is doing what it needs to in student recruitment, it is more concerned with instructors who can keep those students coming back.

With fitness instructors there are some other factors at play. Firstly, there are usually many options in the area where they can teach. Secondly, few fitness instructors I know see that fitness class (POUND, Zumba, whatever) as a long-term part of their life. They are very into fitness, and love the group interaction, but can get that teaching a different class somewhere else. That's not the same dynamic for a BJJ instructor.


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## mrt2 (May 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> That probably varies by location. If the gym is doing what it needs to in student recruitment, it is more concerned with instructors who can keep those students coming back.
> 
> With fitness instructors there are some other factors at play. Firstly, there are usually many options in the area where they can teach. Secondly, few fitness instructors I know see that fitness class (POUND, Zumba, whatever) as a long-term part of their life. They are very into fitness, and love the group interaction, but can get that teaching a different class somewhere else. That's not the same dynamic for a BJJ instructor.


Perhaps, but from the point of view of the student, when you get a good teacher n a given class, whatever it is, the loss is huge when that teacher leaves.  I went through this over the years with spinning, yoga, aerobics, step aerobics, and pilates.  Over the course of time, say a year or two, I would make a class part of my weekly routine only to have it upended when a good teacher leaves, often replaced by a committee, or someone not as good.  It is one of the things that brought me back to traditional martial arts.  Seeking some continuity in my training.


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## drop bear (May 19, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> @DocWard , said it perfectly IMHO. I don't think you are grossly overweight for your height assuming you have a margin of muscle mass. It sounds like you have a workable plan, functional training twice/week and your choice of MA to study. Just listen to your body. I would start with 3-days/week and work my way up. This will avoid some of the slingshot of overdoing it, then underdoing it because you feel like crap. At some point you may choose to cross train 2 styles, but I do not think you are there yet.
> It sounds like you have a fortunate situation having one facility that offers everything so take advantage of it; and listen to what Doc said.
> Best of luck and keep in touch. Let us know how it goes.



I am 180 and about 84KG. And could probably sit around 80 if I worked at it. When I was 100 I was legitimately fat.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 19, 2019)

mrt2 said:


> Perhaps, but from the point of view of the student, when you get a good teacher n a given class, whatever it is, the loss is huge when that teacher leaves.  I went through this over the years with spinning, yoga, aerobics, step aerobics, and pilates.  Over the course of time, say a year or two, I would make a class part of my weekly routine only to have it upended when a good teacher leaves, often replaced by a committee, or someone not as good.  It is one of the things that brought me back to traditional martial arts.  Seeking some continuity in my training.


I see that quite a bit in fitness classes - they go through fads and cycles. MMA gyms don't seem to have a similar problem.


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## dvcochran (May 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I see that quite a bit in fitness classes - they go through fads and cycles. MMA gyms don't seem to have a similar problem.


I hope the same can be said for the remaining (and future) MA schools by in large.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 20, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> I hope the same can be said for the remaining (and future) MA schools by in large.


TMA schools have traditionally had a lot of stability in their instructor ranks, especially when they are grown from inside. I was surprised when I returned to my old school after a few years to find the senior assistant instructor had left. Folks in those positions usually last long enough we take them for granted, and they seem permanent until they move on to do something different.


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