# Is this allowed in MMA?



## Hong Kong Pooey

The elbow strike around 35:30






I must confess to a large degree of ignorance when it comes to MMA, hence the question.

I watched the first couple of UFCs then got bored when it became all about 'the ground game', but earlier this year caught a few episodes of Bellator and rather enjoyed it. Anyway I definitely saw shoots & sprawls but don't think I saw the elbow strike to the spine, and if I did then definitely not with the same results.


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## Tony Dismukes

It used to be legal, but then they added rules against it. (even though I'm not aware of any instances where someone got hurt by the technique in MMA competition.)

The reason you didn't see it used effectively back when it _was _legal is that it's really difficult to land it just right against a skilled opponent. Usually the guys who tried it were being taken down as they threw the elbow, which robbed the strike of its power.  In this case, the big guy's size advantage allowed him to stuff Jimmy's takedown attempt and hold him in place for the nasty elbow spike. (The big guy's weight really added a lot to the impact of the downwards elbow also.)


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Tony Dismukes said:


> It used to be legal, but then they added rules against it. (even though I'm not aware of any instances where someone got hurt by the technique in MMA competition.)
> 
> The reason you didn't see it used effectively back when it _was _legal is that it's really difficult to land it just right against a skilled opponent. Usually the guys who tried it were being taken down as they threw the elbow, which robbed the strike of its power.  In this case, the big guy's size advantage allowed him to stuff Jimmy's takedown attempt and hold him in place for the nasty elbow spike. (The big guy's weight really added a lot to the impact of the downwards elbow also.)



Thanks Tony. When I saw it it got me thinking about the interminable cage vs street debate.

I did think that it looks like the big guy's size makes it a lot easier to deliver it, and also the fact that he deals with the takedown attempt first, good to have it confirmed by someone such as yourself. 

Nevertheless it does validate it as a potentially devastating blow, and for me at least, lends weight to the argument that MMA is not necessarily the standard by which all things must be judged.


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## Buka

I'm not sure if you mean all MMA or UFC. In UFC you can't strike straight downward with the point of the elbow or strike the back of the head, or the spine.


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## K-man

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Thanks Tony. When I saw it it got me thinking about the interminable cage vs street debate.
> 
> I did think that it looks like the big guy's size makes it a lot easier to deliver it, and also the fact that he deals with the takedown attempt first, good to have it confirmed by someone such as yourself.
> 
> *Nevertheless it does validate it as a potentially devastating blow*, and for me at least, lends weight to the argument that MMA is not necessarily the standard by which all things must be judged.


This has been my point all along. This is a standard finishing technique for us. Not necessarily against a shoot where there are many variables but at other times where the spine is exposed. It is standard fair in Karate and Krav and even in Aikido there are many opportunities to use it if required. Do we train it full force? Obviously not but we do train it.
:asian:


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## drop bear

The downward elbow works with the throw  so you help them take you down. If you are going to strike it needs to be in line with sprawl mechanics like say an upwards forearm or something.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JtxTBZWJkDk


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## hoshin1600

I'm sorry Tony but Joe Rogan has talked about this rule many times. When the ufc  was sanctioned by the boxing commission people on the licence board who had no knowledge of ma had seen people breaking large blocks of ice and other things and felt that the 12 to 6 elbow was too dangerous. Joe r has said over and over how stupid the rule is but the licence commission will not change it.


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## RTKDCMB

Another is it allowed question;

Are you allowed to ram your opponents head into the cage in an MMA fight?


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## Tony Dismukes

RTKDCMB said:


> Another is it allowed question;
> 
> Are you allowed to ram your opponents head into the cage in an MMA fight?



Yep.


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## Tez3

In the UK we have no licensing or any other type of authority overlooking MMA competitions so technically anyone can use any rules they like. In practice most promoters use rules similar if not the same as the UFC now. There's some techniques that are allowed and some that aren't depending sometimes on what rules the fighter wants. As far as I've seen they all keep the downward elbow rule. However we have nothing to say what rules there are so fighters here rely on promoters being fair. 
People who say MMA is the standard by others should be judged are usually the fanboys or those who are up their own backsides, people with a true interest and knowledge of MMA are usually  too busy minding what they are doing to worry about comparing themselves to others.


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## Hanzou

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Thanks Tony. When I saw it it got me thinking about the interminable cage vs street debate.
> 
> I did think that it looks like the big guy's size makes it a lot easier to deliver it, and also the fact that he deals with the takedown attempt first, good to have it confirmed by someone such as yourself.
> 
> Nevertheless it does validate it as a potentially devastating blow, and for me at least, lends weight to the argument that MMA is not necessarily the standard by which all things must be judged.




If you're significantly bigger than your opponent, your opponent is tired as hell, and you've been watching him fight all day, then yeah the elbow to the spine is a great Double Leg takedown defense. 

Fortunately, the DLT isn't the only TD out there. :supcool:


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## Tez3

Hanzou said:


> If you're significantly bigger than your opponent, your opponent is tired as hell, and you've been watching him fight all day, then yeah the elbow to the spine is a great Double Leg takedown defense.
> 
> Fortunately, the DLT isn't the only TD out there. :supcool:




Too many people don't do leg takedowns properly though making it far too easy to defend. The simplest thing they need to learn is not to do a leg takedown when your opponent is moving away from you, I get frustrated so many times at watching this. If you are going to do a technique, learn to do it properly and at the right time.


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## Hanzou

I think its more important to understand why Jimmy attempted to do the DLT in the first place; The guy he was trading blows with was larger than he was, and was messing him up pretty badly. Its a sound strategy in that situation, because the alternative is getting knocked out.


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## Buka

RTKDCMB said:


> Another is it allowed question;
> 
> Are you allowed to ram your opponents head into the cage in an MMA fight?



There's a rule in place that disallows purposely "spiking" your opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. But I've never seen it enforced. And I'm not sure what the details of "spiking" would be.


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## Tez3

Buka said:


> There's a rule in place that disallows purposely "spiking" your opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. But I've never seen it enforced. And I'm not sure what the details of "spiking" would be.



Basically picking them up and dropping them on the top of their head or anything that can lead to a broken neck ( like the scrum in rugby) I've never seen anyone attempt to do it in an MMA comp, it's actually more difficult than it seems besides despite what fighters may say when hyping their fights up they don't actually intent to hurt their opponent that much.


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## Buka

Tez3 said:


> Basically picking them up and dropping them on the top of their head or anything that can lead to a broken neck ( like the scrum in rugby) I've never seen anyone attempt to do it in an MMA comp, it's actually more difficult than it seems besides despite what fighters may say when hyping their fights up they don't actually intent to hurt their opponent that much.



That's what I figured. But I wonder why they allow suplexes? Seem just as dangerous to the neck.


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## Transk53

RTKDCMB said:


> Another is it allowed question;
> 
> Are you allowed to ram your opponents head into the cage in an MMA fight?





Tony Dismukes said:


> Yep.



Surprised about that one.


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## Buka

This is that suplex I mentioned. We were watching that fight on TV. Everyone gasped, thought he might have broken his neck. But it's a legal move.


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## Transk53

Buka said:


> This is that suplex I mentioned. We were watching that fight on TV. Everyone gasped, thought he might have broken his neck. But it's a legal move.




OMG. I winced while they were mid air. How can that be legal. Looks just as bad as a Spear tackle.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Hanzou said:


> If you're significantly bigger than your opponent, your opponent is tired as hell, and you've been watching him fight all day, then yeah the elbow to the spine is a great Double Leg takedown defense.
> 
> Fortunately, the DLT isn't the only TD out there. :supcool:



Just because those were the circumstances in this particular instance, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will only work if all of those conditions are met.


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## Tez3

Buka said:


> This is that suplex I mentioned. We were watching that fight on TV. Everyone gasped, thought he might have broken his neck. But it's a legal move.



Probably because he wasn't really meant to land on his neck, precision can be difficult in an actual fight. Also that is Pride and they had a different rule set. When you say 'is it allowed in MMA' it's probably better to specify which promotion rather than just MMA.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Buka said:


> This is that suplex I mentioned. We were watching that fight on TV. Everyone gasped, thought he might have broken his neck. But it's a legal move.



First of all, a big fat OUCH! Fair play to him for taking that and coming back.

Secondly it's a good job it happened on canvas and not concrete.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Buka said:


> I'm not sure if you mean all MMA or UFC. In UFC you can't strike straight downward with the point of the elbow or strike the back of the head, or the spine.



I just meant MMA in general, I'm given to understand the rules can vary between franchises.


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## Tez3

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> I just meant MMA in general, I'm given to understand the rules can vary between franchises.



We don't have franchises in the UK or Europe. The rules can be very different between the promotions so saying MMA won't get you the answers you want. MMA is a general term anyway.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Hanzou said:


> *I think its more important to understand why Jimmy attempted to do the DLT in the first place*; The guy he was trading blows with was larger than he was, and was messing him up pretty badly. Its a sound strategy in that situation, because the alternative is getting knocked out.



More important than what?


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Tez3 said:


> We don't have franchises in the UK or Europe. The rules can be very different between the promotions so saying MMA won't get you the answers you want. MMA is a general term anyway.



Question: How do you know which answers I want?

I didn't want to limit it to just one franchise, e.g. UFC, and I'm actually quite satisfied with the answers so far. 

I take your point regarding the general nature of the term MMA though, perhaps I should have said reputable MMA competitions that I'm likely to come across on mainstream TV or YT.


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## Hanzou

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Just because those were the circumstances in this particular instance, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will only work if all of those conditions are met.



True, but it was the example you used while seemingly ignoring the major factors at work.

In the end, there's more reliable takedown counters.


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## Tez3

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Question: How do you know which answers I want?
> 
> I didn't want to limit it to just one franchise, e.g. UFC, and I'm actually quite satisfied with the answers so far.
> 
> I take your point regarding the general nature of the term MMA though, perhaps I should have said reputable MMA competitions that I'm likely to come across on mainstream TV or YT.



Why do you call them franchises? 

How do I know the answers you want? I don't but when the question is vague how do WE know what answers you want?

There are no governing bodies for MMA as there are in TMA, there aren't any organisations than oversee or run MMA. There is the UFC which is a business (not a governing body) which because it's in America gets overseen by State bodies. Elsewhere there is nothing, when you say MMA how are we to know which promotions you mean. I can give you more than a dozen different promotions just off the top of my head which will all have different rules, that's in England, I can give you half a dozen more in Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland, it's illegal. In Europe I can cite as many as a hundred maybe more, all with different rules, many are on mainstream television. 
If I posted up and said 'is this move legal in martial arts' would you see the difficulty in answering? As for reputable, that's subjective, many think that the UFC is disreputable in the way it treats fighters, it's attitude to the drug cheats etc. The UFC is the subject of a good many debates but it is a business, making money for it's owners and if it has any stockholders. The rules on their fights will be those which they hope will produce the most entertaining fights to sell tickets, it has little to do with actual MMA, it's business.


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> Why do you call them franchises?
> 
> How do I know the answers you want? I don't but when the question is vague how do WE know what answers you want?
> 
> There are no governing bodies for MMA as there are in TMA, there aren't any organisations than oversee or run MMA. There is the UFC which is a business (not a governing body) which because it's in America gets overseen by State bodies. Elsewhere there is nothing, when you say MMA how are we to know which promotions you mean. I can give you more than a dozen different promotions just off the top of my head which will all have different rules, that's in England, I can give you half a dozen more in Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland, it's illegal. In Europe I can cite as many as a hundred maybe more, all with different rules, many are on mainstream television.
> If I posted up and said 'is this move legal in martial arts' would you see the difficulty in answering? As for reputable, that's subjective, many think that the UFC is disreputable in the way it treats fighters, it's attitude to the drug cheats etc. The UFC is the subject of a good many debates but it is a business, making money for it's owners and if it has any stockholders. The rules on their fights will be those which they hope will produce the most entertaining fights to sell tickets, it has little to do with actual MMA, it's business.



Well said! Cung Le is now the obvious example. HGH, yeah whatever. The UFC are a disgrace of the up most profanity. It is always picking on the non commercial guy. Well I cannot back that up, just the way I feel about this.


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## Tez3

The UFC would change the rules in a second if they thought it would be entertaining enough to sell more tickets. The downward elbow would be allowed as would the soccer kick and the stomp.
The difference between what's allowed for entertainment sake and what's allowed for safety bear no resemblance to each other. It suit the UFC to say there are moves too dangerous to be used because it's hypes up the fights as being far more dangerous than they are. It also appeases any authorities concerned about the 'brutality', they can tell them they have taken the most dangerous moves out. Win, win for business.


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Tez3 said:


> Why do you call them franchises?
> 
> How do I know the answers you want? I don't but when the question is vague how do WE know what answers you want?
> 
> There are no governing bodies for MMA as there are in TMA, there aren't any organisations than oversee or run MMA. There is the UFC which is a business (not a governing body) which because it's in America gets overseen by State bodies. Elsewhere there is nothing, when you say MMA how are we to know which promotions you mean. I can give you more than a dozen different promotions just off the top of my head which will all have different rules, that's in England, I can give you half a dozen more in Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland, it's illegal. In Europe I can cite as many as a hundred maybe more, all with different rules, many are on mainstream television.
> If I posted up and said 'is this move legal in martial arts' would you see the difficulty in answering? As for reputable, that's subjective, many think that the UFC is disreputable in the way it treats fighters, it's attitude to the drug cheats etc. The UFC is the subject of a good many debates but it is a business, making money for it's owners and if it has any stockholders. The rules on their fights will be those which they hope will produce the most entertaining fights to sell tickets, it has little to do with actual MMA, it's business.



I used franchises because I thought Id heard ppl refer to UFC & Bellator as such, I'll switch to promotions though if that's the commonly accepted term?

I wanted to leave it open for people to answer on whichever promotions they chose to and not limit it to just one.

I admitted my ignorance on the subject in the OP, so as far as I knew the answer could have been any one of it's allowed everywhere, nowhere, or somewhere.

Perhaps renowned would have been a more appropriate word in that post than reputable. Or popular.


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## Tez3

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> I used franchises because I thought Id heard ppl refer to UFC & Bellator as such, I'll switch to promotions though if that's the commonly accepted term?
> 
> I wanted to leave it open for people to answer on whichever promotions they chose to and not limit it to just one.
> 
> I admitted my ignorance on the subject in the OP, so as far as I knew the answer could have been any one of it's allowed everywhere, nowhere, or somewhere.
> 
> Perhaps renowned would have been a more appropriate word in that post than reputable. Or popular.



Notorious? 

It may be that Americans use the word 'franchise' differently from us? A franchise here is where a big business sells someone a licence to sell that big business's stuff.

MMA rules are decided by market forces not martial arts, fighters, coaches or gyms.

Talking about MMA rules is a bit like plaiting fog or rounding up cats I'm afraid, for every 'yes' it's allowed you will get a 'no', sorry!


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## drop bear

Buka said:


> There's a rule in place that disallows purposely "spiking" your opponent to the canvas on his head or neck. But I've never seen it enforced. And I'm not sure what the details of "spiking" would be.


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## Tony Dismukes

Tez3 said:


> Basically picking them up and dropping them on the top of their head or anything that can lead to a broken neck ( like the scrum in rugby) I've never seen anyone attempt to do it in an MMA comp, it's actually more difficult than it seems besides despite what fighters may say when hyping their fights up they don't actually intent to hurt their opponent that much.



UFC 16: Frank Shamrock vs Igor Zinoviev. Shamrock picked Zinoviev up and basically tried to drive him head first through the canvas. A normal human being with an actual neck probably would have been killed. I believe they added the "no spiking" rule after that incident.


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## Tony Dismukes

Tony Dismukes said:


> UFC 16: Frank Shamrock vs Igor Zinoviev. Shamrock picked Zinoviev up and basically tried to drive him head first through the canvas. A normal human being with an actual neck probably would have been killed. I believe they added the "no spiking" rule after that incident.



BTW, you can watch the entire match on YouTube. Zinoviev suffered a broken collarbone and a fractured vertebrae. He never fought again.


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> The UFC would change the rules in a second if they thought it would be entertaining enough to sell more tickets. The downward elbow would be allowed as would the soccer kick and the stomp.
> The difference between what's allowed for entertainment sake and what's allowed for safety bear no resemblance to each other. It suit the UFC to say there are moves too dangerous to be used because it's hypes up the fights as being far more dangerous than they are. It also appeases any authorities concerned about the 'brutality', they can tell them they have taken the most dangerous moves out. Win, win for business.



Yeah. The amazing thing for is the hype surrounding UFC. The fighters are obviously skilled and put a lot in, but a good lot of the bouts I have seen, just go straight to submission. Trying to remember that Irish fella from a lower weight division. He wants to stand up and have a scrap, most do not that I have seen.


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## Tez3

Transk53 said:


> Yeah. The amazing thing for is the hype surrounding UFC. The fighters are obviously skilled and put a lot in, but a good lot of the bouts I have seen, just go straight to submission. Trying to remember that Irish fella from a lower weight division. He wants to stand up and have a scrap, most do not that I have seen.




Cathal Pendred? From Eire, he's one of John Kavanagh's lads, very good at BJJ and stand up. John is a cracking coach.


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## RTKDCMB

Buka said:


> This is that suplex I mentioned. We were watching that fight on TV. Everyone gasped, thought he might have broken his neck. But it's a legal move.



That could have turned out worse. That is one way professional wrestling (WWE) is a risky endeavor, It just takes one person to mess up once and its all over.


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## Tez3

RTKDCMB said:


> That could have turned out worse. That is one way professional wrestling (WWE) is a risky endeavor, It just takes one person to mess up once and its all over.




I watched a documentary on professional wrestling, how it's choreographed, how they practice etc and for all that there are still moves that go wrong. I believe one chap broke his neck when something went askew. If it goes wrong with two guys working together how much more wrong can it go when two guys are actually fighting.

PS hope I didn't give away that pro wrestling isn't real lol.


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## Reedone816

imho spiking in mma contex is more like vertical movement like pile driver, so they think suplex is not in that criteria.
while downward elbow, only for 12 to 6 elbow that is banned, while 11 to 7 is permissible...
99 facts for the diehard MMA fan, Part 4 - Mixed Martial Arts News




> 393. UFC 28 - The New Jersey Athletic Control Board sanctions its first  UFC event, using the newly developed Unified Rules of Mixed Martial  Arts. Major changes to the UFC's rules included barring knee strikes to  the head of a downed opponent, and elbow strikes to the spine and neck.  Limits on permissible ring attire, stringent medical requirements, and  regulatory oversight were also introduced. A new weight class system was  also introduced. This new set of rules is currently the de facto  standard for MMA events held in the USA and is still in use by the UFC.



btw. from one fc website rules, there is nowhere mentioned that biting is illegal, only spitting is...


> *Illegal Techniques:*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Stomps to the head
> Head Butting
> Hair Pulling
> Eye Gouging
> 
> 
> Orifice Insertion
> Spitting
> Grabbing onto the cage fence
> 
> *


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## Tez3

Reedone816 said:


> imho spiking in mma contex is more like vertical movement like pile driver, so they think suplex is not in that criteria.
> while downward elbow, only for 12 to 6 elbow that is banned, while 11 to 7 is permissible...
> 99 facts for the diehard MMA fan, Part 4 - Mixed Martial Arts News
> 
> 
> 
> btw. from one fc website rules, there is nowhere mentioned that biting is illegal, only spitting is...



The 'facts from MMA' series is very good but apart from one or two mentions of other promotions it's all about the UFC. There is a whole planetful of MMA out there! :idunno:


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## Hong Kong Pooey

Do they really need a rule for this?!



Reedone816 said:


> *Illegal Techniques: Orifice Insertion  *



I mean what kind of people are entering these MMA competitions?


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## Tez3

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Do they really need a rule for this?!
> 
> 
> 
> I mean what kind of people are entering these MMA competitions?



People off the street sometimes. I've heard of shows where they were a fighter down and paid some local 'hard man' to come in and fight.  On the other hand MMA in the early days was marketed as 'no rules' which meant getting venues to fight in could be hard to get and in America where MMA has to be overlooked by a State body they would never get a show off the ground. By putting rules like that they can show they are behaving nicely. 
There are still fights in some places that have no rules I'm told, most of these type of things are for betting and you tend to need a rule or two to enable bets to be made without arguing who won.


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## Reedone816

Tez3 said:


> The 'facts from MMA' series is very good but apart from one or two mentions of other promotions it's all about the UFC. There is a whole planetful of MMA out there! :idunno:




 not actually, there are some mention in pride, the first biggest mma org before being bought by ufc. And to me it is more about recognized fighter than it's org. And more to revolution on mma rather than spesific org.
Ufc happened to be mention more because it hold stables of best fighter and as the only mma org in north america that actually put grease in legalizing mma in us.

Now talking about one fc, it is like the second birth of pride (that adapt pride mma rules now), with many asian top fighters actually choose to sign with one fc and snub ufc deals because one fc gives more lucrative deals, like ben askren 7 figure deals.

And talking about illegal prize fighting. Rumored, in my hometown, a five star hotel hold it underground by invitation only. And one of the winner back then was a local security guard that beat a big african fighter. with $3000 prize it is about his regular work salary for a year.


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> Cathal Pendred? From Eire, he's one of John Kavanagh's lads, very good at BJJ and stand up. John is a cracking coach.



Nah, but while Googling I found the right fella - Conor McGregor.


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## drop bear

Hong Kong Pooey said:


> Do they really need a rule for this?!
> 
> 
> 
> I mean what kind of people are entering these MMA competitions?



Can't throw a person over that six foot wall either. Not sure if possible.

And hopoate.


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## drop bear

Transk53 said:


> Nah, but while Googling I found the right fella - Conor McGregor.



Or mark hunt. Been told he likes a bit of stand up.


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## Transk53

drop bear said:


> Or mark hunt. Been told he likes a bit of stand up.



I'll check it out.


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## Tez3

Transk53 said:


> Nah, but while Googling I found the right fella - Conor McGregor.




Conor is one of John Kavanagh's too, I've watched him fight on Cage Rage and Cage Warriors, not bad but maybe won't go too far.


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> Conor is one of John Kavanagh's too, I've watched him fight on Cage Rage and Cage Warriors, not bad but maybe won't go too far.



He will, Irish heart. He has got something, outside of the normal. Nah, he knows which **** is real


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## Tez3

Transk53 said:


> He will, Irish heart. He has got something, outside of the normal. Nah, he knows which **** is real




LOL, we'll see, be fun to see what happens. John Kavanagh is a great coach and great fun, he beguiles the English girls with his Irish charm (that's fun to watch too!) his gym is producing some great fighters.


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> LOL, we'll see, be fun to see what happens. John Kavanagh is a great coach and great fun, he beguiles the English girls with his Irish charm (that's fun to watch too!) his gym is producing some great fighters.



Not interested in what is, just was was. Time, oh yeah!


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## Tez3

Transk53 said:


> Not interested in what is, just was was. Time, oh yeah!



That was random.


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## ballen0351

Tez3 said:


> That was random.



I know I'm late to the party but I'm glad you made it home safe Tez


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## Tez3

ballen0351 said:


> I know I'm late to the party but I'm glad you made it home safe Tez




thank you, better too that I'm now a lady of leisure having retired. Oops that's makes me a pensioner lol.


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## ballen0351

Tez3 said:


> thank you, better too that I'm now a lady of leisure having retired. Oops that's makes me a pensioner lol.



Congratulations on your retirement.  That's wonderful


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> That was random.



Yeah it certainly was. I was having bad word blindness issues. I kept missing out so many words. What I was trying to convey, and obviously very badly, was that Conor seems like the usual hype would be a bit restrictive. You know like the hype is not wanted. I first saw him fight on that UFC show on Channel 5. Just kind of caught a televisual vibe that kind of said, just let me fight. Sorry if that is random too, the best I can do translate my thoughts into that post. Also I was not attempting to be rude BTW!


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> thank you, better too that I'm now a lady of leisure having retired. Oops that's makes me a pensioner lol.




Any chance I could borrow the bus pass?  Sorry could not resist


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## Tez3

Transk53 said:


> Any chance I could borrow the bus pass?  Sorry could not resist



Oh don't start, it makes me mad! I don't get a bus pass until I get to state pension age which at the moment is 63 but it keeps going up every time I look! I have my MOD pension but currently the state pension is getting further and further away. For non Brits, women used to get pension, bus pass etc at 60 but those dear Tories changed it. We now have to wait and wait and wait........


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## Transk53

Tez3 said:


> Oh don't start, it makes me mad! I don't get a bus pass until I get to state pension age which at the moment is 63 but it keeps going up every time I look! I have my MOD pension but currently the state pension is getting further and further away. For non Brits, women used to get pension, bus pass etc at 60 but those dear Tories changed it. We now have to wait and wait and wait........



Yeah I really could launch the modern day view of Britain, but know restraint is the PC view now!!


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## Tez3

For all that though it's odd that MMA here is still unregulated, though to be honest all martial arts are as far as the government or any governmental authorities are, it's all self regulated.


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