# Dagger Fighting



## PhotonGuy (Nov 19, 2018)

There must be some arts that focus on dagger fighting, or at least have it in their curriculum. As far as I know the dagger was not and is not used in any of the Asian martial arts so any art that does include dagger fighting would be a western art not an eastern art.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 19, 2018)

FMA have a whole section of their curriculum on using the dagger.


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## KPM (Nov 19, 2018)

Sicilian Knife Fighting uses the stilleto, which is essentially a long narrow dagger.  Fighting in armour with a large dagger is part of HEMA.  But it is more of a grappling system with stabbing than it is a blade-fighting method.   Some Chinese Kung Fu systems feature forms with the ring daggers.  The blade work in FMA functions well whether the weapon has two edges or one.


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## frank raud (Nov 19, 2018)

PhotonGuy said:


> There must be some arts that focus on dagger fighting, or at least have it in their curriculum. As far as I know the dagger was not and is not used in any of the Asian martial arts so any art that does include dagger fighting would be a western art not an eastern art.


How are you defining a dagger that there is no Asian equivalent?


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## PhotonGuy (Nov 19, 2018)

frank raud said:


> How are you defining a dagger that there is no Asian equivalent?


A dagger, from what I believe, is a double edged knife with a straight blade. I could be wrong.


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## drop bear (Nov 20, 2018)

The fairbairn/ Applegate systems


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## KPM (Nov 20, 2018)

PhotonGuy said:


> A dagger, from what I believe, is a double edged knife with a straight blade. I could be wrong.



chinese ring daggers - Google Search


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## Danny T (Nov 20, 2018)

PhotonGuy said:


> There must be some arts that focus on dagger fighting, or at least have it in their curriculum.


You are correct with this.



PhotonGuy said:


> As far as I know the dagger was not and is not used in any of the Asian martial arts so any art that does include dagger fighting would be a western art not an eastern art.


You are incorrect with this.


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## Tez3 (Nov 20, 2018)

"A short knife with a pointed and edged blade, used as a weapon."

dagger | Definition of dagger in English by Oxford Dictionaries


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## Flying Crane (Nov 20, 2018)

I think the specifications on a dagger can vary a lot.  It can be a fairly short knife that can be hidden in a boot, or on the belt in the small of the back, or it can be long enough (maybe 12-15 inches on the blade) to effectively parry and fight against a larger weapon like a sword, and anywhere in between.  These things often do not have a fixed and rigid definition.

In today’s reality, I think any knife work with a fixed-blade knife could be considered a variant on “dagger” work.


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## PhotonGuy (Nov 20, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> "A short knife with a pointed and edged blade, used as a weapon."
> 
> dagger | Definition of dagger in English by Oxford Dictionaries


"a sharp pointed knife for stabbing"
Definition of DAGGER
I suppose a dagger doesn't have to be double edged but it does have to have a point.


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## lklawson (Nov 20, 2018)

drop bear said:


> The fairbairn/ Applegate systems


The Fairbairn-Sykes stuff is pretty good but I wouldn't call it knife vs knife really.  A lot of assassination, sentry removal, and knife vs. unarmed dude.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Nov 20, 2018)

PhotonGuy said:


> There must be some arts that focus on dagger fighting, or at least have it in their curriculum. As far as I know the dagger was not and is not used in any of the Asian martial arts so any art that does include dagger fighting would be a western art not an eastern art.


There are a ton of Western based systems.  The German (Liechtenaur)‎ and Italian (Fiore) knightly systems had a bunch (particularly the German), Italian Renaissance master Achille Marozzo, to WWI era Alfred Hutton.  Plenty more.  






















Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Deleted member 39746 (Nov 20, 2018)

I don't recall any which are just dagger, but directly above post.


a lot of persons taught and wrote treatises on how to use the dagger alongside other weapons and diffrent types in diffrent situations over the ages.    Most are ingrained in a over arching treatise rather than a specific separate one. 

example, the flower of battle has a page or two on dagger. (roundel specifically) 

Treatises are pretty hard to find, depend son which ones.   I still have one of sabre lurking in my memory but i don't recall who the author was or what the title was or what sabre it was for or where i went to find etc etc.


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## Tez3 (Nov 20, 2018)

PhotonGuy said:


> it does have to have a point.




 "Is that a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand? Come, let me cluth thee. I have thee not, and yet I see these still. Are thou not, fatal vision, sensible to feeling as to sight? Or art thou but A dagger of the mind, a false creation proceeding but from the heat-oppressed brain?"


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## lklawson (Nov 21, 2018)

Rat said:


> Treatises are pretty hard to find, depend son which ones.


They're easier than ever to get a   hold of now.  Vast numbers have been made available online and republished as treeware.  There is only one of which I can think of which is generally unavailable and that is a 17th C. English Naval treatise with some very interesting cultass and flintlock pistol work.  The Historic Maritime Combat Association was granted access to it once but not allowed photography or duplication.

Even oddball stuff like the Goliath manuscript is available.

Goliath Fechtbuch (MS Germ.Quart.2020) ~ Wiktenauer ~☞ Insquequo omnes gratuiti fiant






Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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