# The Sjambok



## harold

Does anyone know where I might be able to get information on using the Sjambok? It is allegedly an ancient African whip used to herd cattle and also used for self defense. It was originally made from braided animal hide but is now made with synthetic materials.


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## frank raud

Howza bout a book on the Sjambok?
http://www.amazon.com/Scourge-Dark-Continent-Martial-African/dp/1559501987

Although as you say, it is basically a whip, shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to hurt someone with it.


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## Big Don

a friend of mine bought Cold Steel's version. He loves it. He spends a lot of time walking fields and smacking it against a tree or fence post gives most dogs enough of a warning that they leave him alone...


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## frank raud




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## Winchester

The Sjambok is IN MOST CASES one helluva self defense weapon.  The speed, the distance, the pain inflicted make it very hard to beat IMO.  It isn't perfect but nothing is.  I'd use it over a knife or a gun since those are potentially lethal weapons whereas the Sjambok isn't.  I don't wanna kill an attacker I want him to wake up for many mornings following an encounter w/ me in alot of pain realizing he made a huge mistake.  I won't be charged w/ murder or attempted murder.  A&B possibly but doubtful.

A few stikes to an attacker's face or hands will end most fights very quickly.  Once you've removed the dominant hand & an eye from the self-defense equation the odds are 80+% in you favor.  You realistically can't ask for much more than that from a $10 polypropylene weapon which will pass through any metal detector and can be concealed.

Knowledgeable opinions?


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## Mephisto

Winchester said:


> The Sjambok is IN MOST CASES one helluva self defense weapon.  The speed, the distance, the pain inflicted make it very hard to beat IMO.  It isn't perfect but nothing is.  I'd use it over a knife or a gun since those are potentially lethal weapons whereas the Sjambok isn't.  I don't wanna kill an attacker I want him to wake up for many mornings following an encounter w/ me in alot of pain realizing he made a huge mistake.  I won't be charged w/ murder or attempted murder.  A&B possibly but doubtful.
> 
> A few stikes to an attacker's face or hands will end most fights very quickly.  Once you've removed the dominant hand & an eye from the self-defense equation the odds are 80+% in you favor.  You realistically can't ask for much more than that from a $10 polypropylene weapon which will pass through any metal detector and can be concealed.
> 
> Knowledgeable opinions?


i don't think you have a very realistic view. If you're not worried about realism no problem, but are you gonna carry your sjambok every where you go? This alone makes it a poor choice for self defense, it's s novelty item, let's not act like its a practical EDC. It's a neat weapon and if you properly train weapons it's worth exploring, but it is not a good option for self defense. A net and trident might also be fair option for immobilizing and demotivating an attacker but it's not a valid approach in our modern society. The sjambok is cool but it's far worse than a knife or gun when your life or the life of your wife and children are on the line.


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## Jenna

Winchester said:


> The Sjambok is IN MOST CASES one helluva self defense weapon.  The speed, the distance, the pain inflicted make it very hard to beat IMO.  It isn't perfect but nothing is.  I'd use it over a knife or a gun since those are potentially lethal weapons whereas the Sjambok isn't.  I don't wanna kill an attacker I want him to wake up for many mornings following an encounter w/ me in alot of pain realizing he made a huge mistake.  I won't be charged w/ murder or attempted murder.  A&B possibly but doubtful.
> 
> A few stikes to an attacker's face or hands will end most fights very quickly.  Once you've removed the dominant hand & an eye from the self-defense equation the odds are 80+% in you favor.  You realistically can't ask for much more than that from a $10 polypropylene weapon which will pass through any metal detector and can be concealed.
> 
> Knowledgeable opinions?


Hello, I agree these are a super non lethal option I had tried one a time ago and found them a peachy idea, and but like @Mephisto has said not maybe too practical for EDC? and so I would be interested please if you use one, how do you your self carry it concealed? Obliged,J


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## Winchester

IMO the Sjambok is alot like the nunchakus.  Unless you train w/ it it isn't a totally practical idea for self-defense.  If you train w/ it & learn how to effectively use it the it is most certainly an excellent weapon.

Here's a response I got from Jim K. who is a professional self-defense instructor to police & military personnel:

_*YES! Sjambok is VERY effective. Lynn Thompson tells stories of using the
Sjam in fighting - holy cow the damn thing is devastating. I too could
tell stories of light taps that end fights. The IDIOT you speak of is
thusly so, let'em rant and rail... their own ignorance betrays their
cause. Sjambok is so, so effective it should be lovely banned, it does
THAT MUCH damage - yikes!!

It is the best of saber, the stick, the whip and the cane all in one
package. It's unique aspects produce surprises in the results (wounds)it
makes, the Sjambok does a type of damage rarely seen in "normal" weapons
use. It has a rather unique hydrostatic shock effect that must be seen
to be appreciated.

If you need to or want to hear more of this just call me and lets talk
for 15 min... otherwise I be writing you a small book! Speaking of
books, have you or the other fellow read Loriega's book on Sjambok
usage? (I wrote the forward ) -- SCOURGE OF THE DARK CONTINENT
https://www.google.com/search?q=scourge+of+the+dark+continent+book&ie=utf-8&oe=u
tf-8

OK, hope this helps some!
JIM K*_


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## Tez3

This 'weapon' has long been connected to the Apartheid era in South Africa where it was infamously used by the South African police.


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## Winchester

Here are some unfortuneate recipients of the Sjambok.  Ouch!


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## Mephisto

Winchester said:


> IMO the Sjambok is alot like the nunchakus.  Unless you train w/ it it isn't a totally practical idea for self-defense.  If you train w/ it & learn how to effectively use it the it is most certainly an excellent weapon.
> 
> Here's a response I got from Jim K. who is a professional self-defense instructor to police & military personnel:
> 
> _*YES! Sjambok is VERY effective. Lynn Thompson tells stories of using the
> Sjam in fighting - holy cow the damn thing is devastating. I too could
> tell stories of light taps that end fights. The IDIOT you speak of is
> thusly so, let'em rant and rail... their own ignorance betrays their
> cause. Sjambok is so, so effective it should be lovely banned, it does
> THAT MUCH damage - yikes!!
> 
> It is the best of saber, the stick, the whip and the cane all in one
> package. It's unique aspects produce surprises in the results (wounds)it
> makes, the Sjambok does a type of damage rarely seen in "normal" weapons
> use. It has a rather unique hydrostatic shock effect that must be seen
> to be appreciated.
> 
> If you need to or want to hear more of this just call me and lets talk
> for 15 min... otherwise I be writing you a small book! Speaking of
> books, have you or the other fellow read Loriega's book on Sjambok
> usage? (I wrote the forward ) -- SCOURGE OF THE DARK CONTINENT
> https://www.google.com/search?q=scourge+of+the+dark+continent+book&ie=utf-8&oe=u
> tf-8
> 
> OK, hope this helps some!
> JIM K*_


I don't think anyone is arguing that it's not an effective weapon. A cop or military person that doesn't have to be concerned with legal ramifications could rightly tout it's effectiveness. But for regular people martial arts weapons and specialized self defense tools can make it easy to end up on the wrong side of the law. A baseball bat can make a great weapon if you use it with unquestionable legality, but few lawers would recommend you travel around with one for self defense. But luckily with a baseball bat you can bring a glove and some balls and explain why you had the bat. In violent encounters intent can change a lot and it's very easy to end up on the wrong side o the law if you intent is questionable.


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## Winchester

"Jim K"s response ^ I posted was not in any way directed towards anyone here.  I posted the same inquiry somewhere else & some idiot added his 2cents.

I imagine if someone was struck hard across the face/neck/arms w/ a Sjambok the pain inflicted would be more than sufficient to make them reconsider the attack.  I can't see a facial strike not laying open the skin if hit w/ the last few inches of the Sjambok.


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## Winchester

I found a couple of new sjambok stories I thought I'd post. >

*A sjambok no joke.  In Zimbabwe they're still widely used for crowd control.  Ten cops with Sjambkos can scatter a crwod of demonstrators of over 700 people with little to no effort.  It's one of the most terrifying things I've witnessed in action. Grown adults scream in terror when the cops roll in with these things. You don't want to be on the receiving end of it.....

For anybody familiar with the Immigration issue, there have been many protests on the streets, especially in California. My friend and I went out at about 3:00PM one day and came back in the middle of a protest at about 7:30. The car he had been driving ('88 Accord) had been giving him many problems recently and decided to crap out while on our way back from our trip. We pushed the car to a less discrete area, figuring we would wait for the protests to calm down. We pushed the car into a small alley where we came upon a somewhat mean looking group of individuals (4) and they started harrassing us. After saying that we didn't want any problems they continued to harrass us and get closer. When one of the individuals was about 10 yards away I saw him reach into his pocket and pull out a knife. I went to the back seat quickly but calmly and pulled out the Sjambok. I told the gentlemen once again that we didn't want any trouble. By now the individual with the knife was within my area where I felt uncomfortable, so I got into a defensive stance with the Sjambok in my right hand over my left shoulder. In my other hand I had my C3 Centurion The individual brought his blade up, and I struck the back of his hand, which quickly disarmed him.   I came back around and struck him in the face which from what I saw left a nasty mark. Before anybody else could react I took my light and shone it into the eyes of 2 of the other men. I managed to strike one of them multiple times, which brought him to the ground, where I remember kicking him. I backed off to a safe distance. The man on the floor got up, injured, and the four men left the scene. By now my friend had already gotten to the triunk and pulled out a baseball bat, but it's use was unecessary.*

*I must say that between all the things I have heard about the sjambok, good and bad, I believe the added reach gave me the edge I needed to escape from this situation unharmed. I am now a firm believer in the martial use of the sjambok, and plan to carry one in my car for as long as possable.
*


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## drop bear

A mate of mine from Chile use to carry a similar whip for fighting people. Called it a dumb rubber. Just a piece of rubber hose packed with dirt and rolled up in the pocket.


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## Tez3

drop bear said:


> Called it a dumb rubber.




That will confuse Americans no end, to them a rubber is a condom!


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## lklawson

Tez3 said:


> That will confuse Americans no end, to them a rubber is a condom!


I had an Australian friend in University.  Harding University, in Arkansas, a very conservative Christian university.  No booze, curfews, no sex, separate dorms, no member of opposite sex in your room, etc.  He went in to the book store and asked for help finding a rubber.  He needed to rub out the marks from his pencil.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

Winchester said:


> I found a couple of new sjambok stories I thought I'd post. >
> 
> *A sjambok no joke.  In Zimbabwe they're still widely used for crowd control.  Ten cops with Sjambkos can scatter a crwod of demonstrators of over 700 people with little to no effort.  It's one of the most terrifying things I've witnessed in action. Grown adults scream in terror when the cops roll in with these things. You don't want to be on the receiving end of it.....
> 
> For anybody familiar with the Immigration issue, there have been many protests on the streets, especially in California. My friend and I went out at about 3:00PM one day and came back in the middle of a protest at about 7:30. The car he had been driving ('88 Accord) had been giving him many problems recently and decided to crap out while on our way back from our trip. We pushed the car to a less discrete area, figuring we would wait for the protests to calm down. We pushed the car into a small alley where we came upon a somewhat mean looking group of individuals (4) and they started harrassing us. After saying that we didn't want any problems they continued to harrass us and get closer. When one of the individuals was about 10 yards away I saw him reach into his pocket and pull out a knife. I went to the back seat quickly but calmly and pulled out the Sjambok. I told the gentlemen once again that we didn't want any trouble. By now the individual with the knife was within my area where I felt uncomfortable, so I got into a defensive stance with the Sjambok in my right hand over my left shoulder. In my other hand I had my C3 Centurion The individual brought his blade up, and I struck the back of his hand, which quickly disarmed him.   I came back around and struck him in the face which from what I saw left a nasty mark. Before anybody else could react I took my light and shone it into the eyes of 2 of the other men. I managed to strike one of them multiple times, which brought him to the ground, where I remember kicking him. I backed off to a safe distance. The man on the floor got up, injured, and the four men left the scene. By now my friend had already gotten to the triunk and pulled out a baseball bat, but it's use was unecessary.*
> 
> *I must say that between all the things I have heard about the sjambok, good and bad, I believe the added reach gave me the edge I needed to escape from this situation unharmed. I am now a firm believer in the martial use of the sjambok, and plan to carry one in my car for as long as possable.*





Winchester said:


> I found a couple of new sjambok stories I thought I'd post. >
> 
> *A sjambok no joke.  In Zimbabwe they're still widely used for crowd control.  Ten cops with Sjambkos can scatter a crwod of demonstrators of over 700 people with little to no effort.  It's one of the most terrifying things I've witnessed in action. Grown adults scream in terror when the cops roll in with these things. You don't want to be on the receiving end of it.....
> 
> For anybody familiar with the Immigration issue, there have been many protests on the streets, especially in California. My friend and I went out at about 3:00PM one day and came back in the middle of a protest at about 7:30. The car he had been driving ('88 Accord) had been giving him many problems recently and decided to crap out while on our way back from our trip. We pushed the car to a less discrete area, figuring we would wait for the protests to calm down. We pushed the car into a small alley where we came upon a somewhat mean looking group of individuals (4) and they started harrassing us. After saying that we didn't want any problems they continued to harrass us and get closer. When one of the individuals was about 10 yards away I saw him reach into his pocket and pull out a knife. I went to the back seat quickly but calmly and pulled out the Sjambok. I told the gentlemen once again that we didn't want any trouble. By now the individual with the knife was within my area where I felt uncomfortable, so I got into a defensive stance with the Sjambok in my right hand over my left shoulder. In my other hand I had my C3 Centurion The individual brought his blade up, and I struck the back of his hand, which quickly disarmed him.   I came back around and struck him in the face which from what I saw left a nasty mark. Before anybody else could react I took my light and shone it into the eyes of 2 of the other men. I managed to strike one of them multiple times, which brought him to the ground, where I remember kicking him. I backed off to a safe distance. The man on the floor got up, injured, and the four men left the scene. By now my friend had already gotten to the triunk and pulled out a baseball bat, but it's use was unecessary.*
> 
> *I must say that between all the things I have heard about the sjambok, good and bad, I believe the added reach gave me the edge I needed to escape from this situation unharmed. I am now a firm believer in the martial use of the sjambok, and plan to carry one in my car for as long as possable.*



Here's a cool way to carry the sjambok >
Deluxe Sword Back Strap System | True Swords


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## Winchester

My sjambok & I showed this smartass cardboard box whose boss!


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## Winchester

Bruce Lee was so impressed w/ what essentially is his version of the sjambok his next movie was centered around it.
*
Bruce Lee’s Green Bamboo Whip from GAME OF DEATH
Handmade to Bruce Lee’s exact specifications by the Golden Harvest Studios in Hong Kong. The "Broken Rhythm" Green Bamboo Whip is one of the most historic, symbolic weapons ever used in martial arts motion picture history. This unique flexible whip was designed to help illustrate the core principles of his revolutionary martial arts system, Jeet Kune Do. As JKD was a system without fixed positions, Bruce wanted to vividly demonstrate through the use of unconventional weapons that he was not affiliated to any traditional martial arts style or philosophy. The whip, in this instance, becomes a metaphor for speed, flexibility elusiveness and unpredictability. Bruce Lee’s technique can clearly be seen during his celebrated ‘first floor’ pagoda fight sequence against Guru Dan Inosanto in Game of Death. Prior to facing off against his opponent, who is armed with two red kali sticks, Bruce comments on the whip, as follows: “You know baby, this Bamboo is longer, more flexible, and very much alive… and when your flashy routine cannot keep up with the speed and elusiveness of this thing here, all I can say is you’ll be in deep trouble.” This almost directly parallels his quote about the man being more important than any style or system, a dead piece of wood going up against a flexible weapon that is “very much alive.” He then continues to ‘school’ his opponent as he fights – a tool used to educate the audience, and to psych out his opponent, breaking down his confidence which in turn makes him less aggressive. Bruce Lee also mentions "Broken rhythm," a powerful way to confuse an opponent by frequently changing the pace or timing of a fight to throw an opponent off guard. . The Bamboo Whip is 105cm (45.5 inches) long. Bruce Lee was a true innovator in every sense, and this unique bamboo weapon, reinforced with a rubberized protective coating, is a striking example of his ability to illustrate complex principles through dynamic visual means. Bruce Lee loved the Bamboo Whip so much that the title of his next movie was to be GREEN BAMBOO WARRIOR, and was to be centered around this weapon. *


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## kehcorpz

Can somebody describe how to best use a SB for self defense? Do you just try to hit the head/eyes and swing it like a golf club only sideways and at head height?

My concern is that striking with it is rather easy but using it to defend yourself against punches or other attacks probably requires practice.


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## Winchester

But a copy of, James Loriega's book on the sjambok.  All you need to know it's in that book.


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## kehcorpz

Is this expensive?

Btw, I have a cold steel sjambok. Not really tested it very much.

Today I tested in against a cardboard and whipped it a few times and I must say I am REALLY disappointed.

After just a few slaps it already had a lot of scratches and even dents!

The whole "it's indestructable" stuff is a joke. Imagine what happens if you use it against wood or stone. It would be ruined in no time.

Or maybe it's supposed to be only used against soft objects like human heads. Heads probably wouldn't cause dents or scratches.

But I have no heads to practice the whipping process.


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## lklawson

kehcorpz said:


> Can somebody describe how to best use a SB for self defense? Do you just try to hit the head/eyes and swing it like a golf club only sideways and at head height?
> 
> My concern is that striking with it is rather easy but using it to defend yourself against punches or other attacks probably requires practice.


The Sjambok

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## kehcorpz

What would happen if you hit somebody across the face full force? Would it create a huge gaping cut?

I really wonder how much damage you can do with a sjambok. 

I mean in case of being attacked I needed to know that 1 hit would suffice and turn the attacker into a mess.


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## lklawson

kehcorpz said:


> What would happen if you hit somebody across the face full force? Would it create a huge gaping cut?
> 
> I really wonder how much damage you can do with a sjambok.


Yup.  The Sjambok



> I mean in case of being attacked I needed to know that 1 hit would suffice and turn the attacker into a mess.


Suffice?  Pft.  Betting shot, stabbed, and having limbs broken often doesn't "suffice."

The Dubious Quick Kill, part 1
The Dubious Quick Kill, Part II

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

kehcorpz said:


> Is this expe?
> 
> Btw, I have a cold steel sjambok. Not really tested it very much.
> 
> Today I tested in against a cardboard and whipped it a few times and I must say I am REALLY disappointed.
> 
> After just a few slaps it already had a lot of scratches and even dents!
> 
> The whole "it's indestructable" stuff is a joke. Imagine what happens if you use it against wood or stone. It would be ruined in no time.
> 
> Or maybe it's supposed to be only used against soft objects like human heads. Heads probably wouldn't cause dents or scratches.
> 
> But I have no heads to practice the whipping process.



I straightened out another smartassed cardboard box with my sjambok, I didn't like the way it was looking at me.  No damage whatsoever to my whip.


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## Winchester

KEHCORPZ,
Hand your sjambok to a friend & tell him to give you a lash across the back of your legs fairly hard but not full force.  Then you'll understand what a sjambok is for very clearly I assure you.


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## Winchester

kehcorpz said:


> What would happen if you hit somebody across the face full force? Would it create a huge gaping cut?
> 
> I really wonder how much damage you can do with a sjambok.
> 
> I mean in case of being attacked I needed to know that 1 hit would suffice and turn the attacker into a mess.



A full force lash across the face with the last few inches of a sjambok will most likely leave a bleeding gash.  The most important factor in maximizing a strike is the follow through combined with additional strikes.  A properly executed sequence would be (4) strikes done in less than two seconds. The classic X pattern: face & hand / face & hand.  If all four of those are successful most fights will be over very quickly.


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## kehcorpz

Why does my sjambok get dents and scratches? This angers me. 
Could it be a fake? But I bought it at an online store which only sells weapon stuff. Can't really imagine that they sell fakes.


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## Flying Crane

kehcorpz said:


> Why does my sjambok get dents and scratches? This angers me.
> Could it be a fake? But I bought it at an online store which only sells weapon stuff. Can't really imagine that they sell fakes.


Because the world is against you.  Best to cash in now, before it's too late.


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## kehcorpz

What do you guys think is more useful a sjambok or a baseball bat?
I think I'd rather go with the sjambok. Using a BB isn't that easy. The attacker could just deflect it with his arms.
With the sjambok your moves are also much faster.


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## Winchester

The sjambok is MUCH, MUCH faster also non-lethal.  Battery is a much lighter charge than murder.  Sjamboks only drawback is impossible to carry concealed.  It will set an aggressor on fire though.  I've read reports of men with permanent sjambok scars that they got through they're clothes.  Which were ripped to shreds after a few strikes.


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## Winchester

I, or anyone with experience, would much rather face an attacker welding a baseball bat than a sjambok any time.

The possible pain level with a sjambok is indescribable.  It is truly paralyzing.


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## Winchester

The sjambok's inability to be carried concealed is because of its lack of flexibility but that same stiffness is what makes a lash(s) from it so painful.  Ask the South African police how effective the sjambok is.  The fact the sjambok is widely used in South Africa, and has been for hundreds of years, speaks to just how effective it is.  Nothing else comes close.


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## lklawson

Winchester said:


> The sjambok's inability to be carried concealed is because of its lack of flexibility but that same stiffness is what makes a lash(s) from it so painful.


Apparently the weapon is somewhat flexible and, from what I've read, is often concealed by wrapping about the waist, slipping into the sleeves (crossing the shoulders), or down a pants leg.

"A strip of the animal's hide is cut and carved into a strip 0.9 to 1.5 metres (3 to 5 ft) long, tapering from about 25 mm (1 in) thick at the handle to about 10 mm (3⁄8 in) at the tip. This strip is then rolled until reaching a tapered-cylindrical form. The resulting whip is both flexible and durable." ref: Sjambok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I owned one of the Cold Steel knockoffs and it was certainly flexible enough to slide into sleeves if I were so inclined, though I can't imagine it'd be the most comfortable way to conceal.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson

lklawson said:


> Apparently the weapon is somewhat flexible and, from what I've read, is often concealed by wrapping about the waist, slipping into the sleeves (crossing the shoulders), or down a pants leg.
> 
> "A strip of the animal's hide is cut and carved into a strip 0.9 to 1.5 metres (3 to 5 ft) long, tapering from about 25 mm (1 in) thick at the handle to about 10 mm (3⁄8 in) at the tip. This strip is then rolled until reaching a tapered-cylindrical form. The resulting whip is both flexible and durable." ref: Sjambok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I owned one of the Cold Steel knockoffs and it was certainly flexible enough to slide into sleeves if I were so inclined, though I can't imagine it'd be the most comfortable way to conceal.

























Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

The bottom line on the sjambok is it will light you on fire making all other flail-type weapons obsolete.  Even in CQB you can strike the person making contact at the midpoint & the tip will wrap around the body popping the sh#= outta the target.  Sheer genius simplicity.


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## lklawson

Winchester said:


> The bottom line on the sjambok is it will light you on fire making all other flail-type weapons obsolete.


Personally, I prefer the Slungshot.



> Even in CQB you can strike the person making contact at the midpoint & the tip will wrap around free body popping the sh#= outta the target.  Sheer genius simplicity.


That's a feature of pretty much every weighted flexible weapon from the Medieval Flail to the "Manriki" Gusari.











Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

Your right but the sjambok is not weighted.  My 42" only weighs a few oz.'s & will pass thru any metal detector with no problem.  As I said nothing comes close.  The incredible effectiveness the South African police have had using it for decades proves this.  IMO law enforcement world-wide should be using the sjambok.


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## lklawson

Winchester said:


> My 42" only weighs a few oz.'s & will pass thru any metal detector with no problem.


Umm... So?



> As I said nothing comes close.


Disagree. 



> The incredible effectiveness the South African police have had using it for decades proves this.


Police (and criminals) in the U.S. have been using the Slungshot for as long as I've been able to track its use in newpaper reports.  There are reports of Slungshot style devices in Colonial news, proving it is more effective (right?).  The Japanese have been using the Gusari since the 12th Century proving that it is even more effective than that (right?).



> IMO law enforcement world-wide should be using the sjambok.


Good heavens, no.  The threat of the sjambok is in extreme pain caused by more or less "superficial" wounds to the skin and shallow muscle tissue near the surface.  It is a weapon of intimidation and fear, and sometimes torture.  The sjambok bursts the skin like pustulant sores, causing intense pain and often leaving dramatic scars, but doing little to damage deeper down.  A good baton is a far better choice for a less-lethal police weapon.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

That's all some people understand.  It's a much better solution than killing them.  A sjambok can paralyze someone.


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## lklawson

Winchester said:


> That's all some people understand.  It's a much better solution than killing them.  A sjambok can paralyze someone.


Most of them understand a peroneal nerve strike or a broken arm pretty well.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Winchester

I'm just thankful to Lynn Thompson for bringing the sjambok to the American market.


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## Tez3

Winchester said:


> I'm just thankful to Lynn Thompson for bringing the sjambok to the American market.



It should do well against firearms.


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## Winchester

It's very good on disarming armed assailants.


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## Tez3

Winchester said:


> It's very good on disarming armed assailants.



Of course, why wouldn't they be. They have obviously worked in South Africa...not. The South African murder by firearms rate is four times that of the US.


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## Winchester

A skilled sjambok artist can easily disarm a gun or knife welding assailant before he has a chance to use his weapon.  One hard handsrike will do this very quickly rendering the hand useless for a few seconds.  Enough time for the sjambok artist to deliver more strikes dropping the assailant to the ground incapacitating him.


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## Tez3

Winchester said:


> A skilled sjambok artist can easily disarm a gun or knife welding assailant before he has a chance to use his weapon.  One hard handsrike will do this very quickly rendering the hand useless for a few seconds.  Enough time for the sjambok artist to deliver more strikes dropping the assailant to the ground incapacitating him.



Good luck with that one as you are presupposing that the assailant is coming at you face on with weapon in hand just like the films.


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## lklawson

Winchester said:


> A skilled sjambok artist can easily disarm a gun or knife welding assailant before he has a chance to use his weapon.  One hard handsrike will do this very quickly rendering the hand useless for a few seconds.  Enough time for the sjambok artist to deliver more strikes dropping the assailant to the ground incapacitating him.


Can you be a bit more detailed on where you're coming from on this subject?  What is your experience with the sjambok; who trained you and who have you trained with?  What is your experience and training with the knife?  What is your experience and training with handguns?

Some of the things that you're writing elevate the sjambok far past what my experience tells me are its capabilities, particularly in relation to what my experience tells me of the capabilities of the other weapons you've specified.  I can't tell if you're an excited new student with limited experience regarding the weapons being referenced or if you just have a hard-on for the sjambok and, in your zeal, have put on blinders related to the limitations of the weapon.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Jenna

Winchester said:


> The sjambok is MUCH, MUCH faster also non-lethal.  Battery is a much lighter charge than murder.  Sjamboks only drawback is impossible to carry concealed.  It will set an aggressor on fire though.  I've read reports of men with permanent sjambok scars that they got through they're clothes.  Which were ripped to shreds after a few strikes.


I get an uneasy sense of glorification of the damage of the weapon in some of your posts, no?


----------



## Winchester

I respond with this question:  Has anyone here been stuck with a full force lash from a 42" sjambok?  The pain is with no exaggeration *PARALYZING.  *It's possible to shear off fingers & break bones if struck with enough force.  Ask James Loriega, he's an instructor inn the Trece Cortes eskrima system.  The weapon can be reversed & the handle used as a club.  Ask a SA police officer how effective the sjambok is.  It all comes down to the skill of the weilder.  A master can easily kill with it.  A complete beginner can leave bleeding gashes.  Once you've felt it's searing pain you will have no further questions I assure you.  Until then debating is pointless.


----------



## Winchester

Sjambok is alot like the nunchakus. Unless you train w/ it it isn't a totally practical idea for self-defense. If you train w/ it & learn how to effectively use it the it is most certainly an excellent weapon.

Here's a response I got from Jim K. who is a professional self-defense instructor to police & military personnel:

_*YES! Sjambok is VERY effective. Lynn Thompson tells stories of using the
Sjam in fighting - holy cow the damn thing is devastating. I too could
tell stories of light taps that end fights. The IDIOT you speak of is
thusly so, let'em rant and rail... their own ignorance betrays their
cause. Sjambok is so, so effective it should be banned, it does
THAT MUCH damage - yikes!!

It is the best of saber, the stick, the whip and the cane all in one
package. It's unique aspects produce surprises in the results (wounds)it
makes, the Sjambok does a type of damage rarely seen in "normal" weapons
use. It has a rather unique hydrostatic shock effect that must be seen
to be appreciated.

If you need to or want to hear more of this just call me and lets talk
for 15 min... otherwise I be writing you a small book! Speaking of
books, have you or the other fellow read Loriega's book on Sjambok
usage? (I wrote the forward ) -- SCOURGE OF THE DARK CONTINENT
https://www.google.com/search?q=scourge+of+the+dark+continent+book&ie=utf-8&oe=u
tf-8

OK, hope this helps some!
JIM K*_


----------



## Winchester

May 31, 2007



*tellnerSenior Master*
Sukerkin, there are whips and there are whips. A shotted quirt can be deadly, and it's useful in close quarters.* The sjambok, both traditional and the SA Police version, is a terrible weapon that can cut to the bone and remove fingers*.


----------



## Tez3

Jenna said:


> I get an uneasy sense of glorification of the damage of the weapon in some of your posts, no?



I think it may be worse than that, after these latest offerings. Frankly such enjoyment of other people's suffering is disgusting.


----------



## Winchester

Ever hear of Friday the 13th or Halloween or Jaws or Nightmare on Elm St.?  You must love those!

Lighten Up!


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> Ever hear of Friday the 13th or Halloween or Jaws or Nightmare on Elm St.?  You must love those!
> 
> Lighten Up!



No I don't watch horror films, I find them boring. They are also fiction, you are posting up pictures of real people suffering and seemingly getting a thrill out of them. There's also the thing that many people see this site at work so a 'not safe for work' label should have been stuck on.
You seem to not understand the significance of the South African police using this weapon on black people, are you unaware of the years of suffering under apartheid?


----------



## Winchester

Your reading waaaaaay too much into this.  South Africa is far worse off now than it was during Apartheid.

The Glory of South Africa Fading Away After Apartheid


----------



## Winchester

Deleted


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> Your reading waaaaaay too much into this.  South Africa is far worse off now than it was during Apartheid.
> 
> The Glory of South Africa Fading Away After Apartheid



The state or not of South Africa now has nothing to do with this, the history has however and the use of the sjambok  is part of that history. You seem to not understand the implications of using weapons other than 'wow this is really cool'. With owning weapons comes responsibility.


----------



## Winchester

I'm not responsible for someone else's use of an excellent weapon.  The fact it WAS used during Apartheid only demonstrates the sjambok's effectiveness.


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> I'm not responsible for someone else's use of an excellent weapon.  The fact it WAS used during Apartheid only demonstrates the sjambok's effectiveness.



You are responsible for posting up pictures of people who were victims however.


----------



## Winchester

Dude stop following me around!!!


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> Dude stop following me around!!!



Don't be silly, this is place that open to everyone and anyone can comment. No one is following you around.


----------



## Russian Whips

I am not familiar with shambok yet, however I am very familiar with short cossack volchatka whip and I can say that with some skill this tool is extreamly effective both as defense and asault weapon


----------



## Winchester

Nothing comes close to the sjambok.  It's the perfect compromise between the bullwhip, the staff & the billy club.  Length, speed & power.  Its got it all.

The Mighty Sjambok


----------



## Russian Whips

Winchester said:


> Nothing comes close to the sjambok.  It's the perfect compromise between the bullwhip, the staff & the billy club.  Length, speed & power.  Its got it all.
> 
> The Mighty Sjambok



Then, I have a Sjambok on steroids - collapsible aluminiun cane!  Similar in some respects with extra weight and impact capabilities.  Not exactly a Sjambok but a related weapon


----------



## Winchester

Get a sjambok....then you'll understand.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> I respond with this question:  Has anyone here been stuck with a full force lash from a 42" sjambok?  The pain is with no exaggeration *PARALYZING.  *It's possible to shear off fingers & break bones if struck with enough force.


That's nice and all.  But it doesn't answer my questions.



> Ask James Loriega, he's an instructor inn the Trece Cortes eskrima system.


James is a friend of mine.  My copy of The Scourge of the Dark Continent is autographed with a personal message.  I just saw him again a few weeks back at CombatCon in Vegas where we both taught.   That reminds me, he was supposed to send me a copy of one of his slide presentations.  I'll have to ask him about that.



> The weapon can be reversed & the handle used as a club.  Ask a SA police officer how effective the sjambok is.  It all comes down to the skill of the weilder.  A master can easily kill with it.  A complete beginner can leave bleeding gashes.  Once you've felt it's searing pain you will have no further questions I assure you.  Until then debating is pointless.


So, what you're saying is that you're unwilling to answer questions about your expertise with the sjambok, where you trained and who with, nor are you willing to answer questions about your training and expertise in either the knife or guns?  As an alternative, your plan is to say, "unless you've been personally beaten with a sjambok I won't discuss it with you."  *That's* your plan?

Anyway, I'm off to go ask James to PM me that slide presentation.  Thanks for reminding me.  I'll be back after I send him the reminder.  Tah.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> Sjambok is alot like the nunchakus. Unless you train w/ it it isn't a totally practical idea for self-defense. If you train w/ it & learn how to effectively use it the it is most certainly an excellent weapon.
> 
> Here's a response I got from Jim K. who is a professional self-defense instructor to police & military personnel:
> 
> _*YES! Sjambok is VERY effective. Lynn Thompson tells stories of using the
> Sjam in fighting - holy cow the damn thing is devastating. I too could
> tell stories of light taps that end fights. The IDIOT you speak of is
> thusly so, let'em rant and rail... their own ignorance betrays their
> cause. Sjambok is so, so effective it should be banned, it does
> THAT MUCH damage - yikes!!
> 
> It is the best of saber, the stick, the whip and the cane all in one
> package. It's unique aspects produce surprises in the results (wounds)it
> makes, the Sjambok does a type of damage rarely seen in "normal" weapons
> use. It has a rather unique hydrostatic shock effect that must be seen
> to be appreciated.
> 
> If you need to or want to hear more of this just call me and lets talk
> for 15 min... otherwise I be writing you a small book! Speaking of
> books, have you or the other fellow read Loriega's book on Sjambok
> usage? (I wrote the forward ) -- SCOURGE OF THE DARK CONTINENT
> https://www.google.com/search?q=scourge+of+the+dark+continent+book&ie=utf-8&oe=u
> tf-8
> 
> OK, hope this helps some!
> JIM K*_


You already posted this once: The Sjambok


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> Ever hear of Friday the 13th or Halloween or Jaws or Nightmare on Elm St.?  You must love those!
> 
> Lighten Up!


I dislike horror films.  I find them irritating and pointless.


----------



## Winchester

Tez3 said:


> You are responsible for posting up pictures of people who were victims however.



All the pics do is clearly demonstrate the sjambok's effectiveness.  I'm not asking for your opinion on the morality of the sjambok's use, I don't care.  James is one badass little dude.  I'd love to spend a few minutes with him.  His level of martial knowledge is incredible.


----------



## Winchester

lklawson said:


> Can you be a bit more detailed on where you're coming from on this subject?  What is your experience with the sjambok; who trained you and who have you trained with?  What is your experience and training with the knife?  What is your experience and training with handguns?
> 
> Some of the things that you're writing elevate the sjambok far past what my experience tells me are its capabilities, particularly in relation to what my experience tells me of the capabilities of the other weapons you've specified.  I can't tell if you're an excited new student with limited experience regarding the weapons being referenced or if you just have a hard-on for the sjambok and, in your zeal, have put on blinders related to the limitations of the weapon.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



My "training" is real life situations where if I had had a sjambok numerous people would be living with some serious scars.  It doesn't take too much "training" to know how to lash someone with a sjambok.  Precision with the sjambok most certainly does take training.  Precision enables the weilder to shear off an ear or nose tip or permanently blind an eye.  That isn't always required in most SD situations.  I am nowhere near ^ that level....yet.  Mr Loriega himself might not be that accurate.  I don't know.  I'm sure some men are, particularly in Trece Cortes.


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> My "training" is real life situations *where if I had had a sjambok* numerous people would be living with some serious scars



So, you haven't actually trained with it. You've seen situations where you've thought 'oh if only I'd brought my sjambok and had some training I'd really show them who is the baas'.


----------



## Winchester

I NEVER said that.  I've been training with the sjambok for almost a year now.  It's just nowhere near as fun to train with as my "Karotty Nummchucks".  If only it were concealable...


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> I NEVER said that.  I've been training with the sjambok for almost a year now.  It's just nowhere near as fun to train with as my "Karotty Nummchucks".  If only it were concealable...



Mmm you did you know, I quoted it.


----------



## Winchester

If Bruce Lee had started out using the sjambok as he planned to in his next project THE GREEN BAMBOO WARRIOR weapons like the nunchaku probably would have been lost to history as it was unknown to the western world until Lee resurrected it.  Unfortunately for the nunchaku it takes months of daily training to become proficient enough to use it in SD.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> All the pics do is clearly demonstrate the sjambok's effectiveness.


The effectiveness of splitting open skin?  Yes.



> I'd love to spend a few minutes with him.  His level of martial knowledge is incredible.


Yes, he's quite knowledgeable and skilled.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> My "training" is real life situations where if I had had a sjambok numerous people would be living with some serious scars.


The ability to inflict "serious scars" isn't the same thing as the ability to stop a determined attack.  It is conceded the the sjambok splits open skin like rotten tomatoes.  Nevertheless, there are any number of instances where pain and otherwise "superficial" injuries simply aren't enough to stop an attack.  And, all that aside, you still haven't answered the questions: What is your experience with the sjambok; who trained you and who have you trained with? What is your experience and training with the *knife*? What is your experience and training with *handguns*?  You suggested that the sjambok is a superior weapon to both of those yet offer little evidence other than "the South African police use it so it must be awesome" and "because I say so."  Well, the evidence is that the South African police use it because it inflicts a lot of pain and people are afraid of pain.  That just leaves your say-so as to it being superior to other weapons.  So I want to know why I should take your word on it.  



> It doesn't take too much "training" to know how to lash someone with a sjambok.


It doesn't take much training to hit someone with a stick either, nor to stab someone with a knife.   To use the tools in a developed martial system, on the other hand, does take time, training, and effort.



> Mr Loriega himself might not be that accurate.  I don't know.  I'm sure some men are, particularly in Trece Cortes.


The question isn't about James' skill.  I'll vouch for him all day, every day, and twice on Sunday.  The question is about whether or not you have the skills, training, and experience to make the pronouncements which you are making.  Stop throwing out James' name as if it gives your claims some sort of legitimacy.  To the best of my recollection, James hasn't made any claims of superiority of one weapon over another in reference to the ones which you've discussed, though he does have a particular affinity for the Spanish clasp knife.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> I NEVER said that.  I've been training with the sjambok for almost a year now.


Almost a whole year, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






> It's just nowhere near as fun to train with as my "Karotty Nummchucks".  If only it were concealable...


Look, no one is saying that the sjambok isn't a neat weapon with some very interesting applications.  Nor is anyone saying that it's not worthwhile to explore.  The problem that most seem to be having is your apparent claims that the weapon is superior to everything else because "South African police!"  Oh, and "because I say so."  From what place of subject matter authority do you speak?


----------



## Winchester

Whatever bro.  Think whatever the hell you want.  I don't give a ****.


----------



## Winchester

The sjambok has stood the test of time proving it's superiority to all other flail-type weapons, offensively AND defensively.  It's combination of length, speed & pain potential are unmatched.  We Americans & Europeans have barely scratched the surface of the sjambok's usefulness in SD.


----------



## Tez3

gpseymour said:


> I'm not sure why you keep referring to grading as a money-maker. Yes, some schools do structure it that way, but it's actually a money-loser for many instructors, given the amount of time it takes away from other activities.





Winchester said:


> We Americans & Europeans have barely scratched the surface of the sjambok's usefulness in SD



You can speak for Europeans now? You have a good knowledge of laws in Europe? I think your love affair with this thing is clouding the facts.


----------



## Winchester

The name SJAMBOK seems to have originated as_cambuk_ in Indonesia, where it was the name of a wooden rod for punishingslaves, where it was possibly derived from the Persian _chabouk_ or _chabuk_. When Malayan slaves arrived in South Africa in the 1800s, the instrument and its name were imported with them, the material was changed to hide, and the name was finally incorporated intoAfrikaans, spelled as _sambok_.

The instrument is also known as _imvubu_(hippopotamus in Zulu), _kiboko_(hippopotamus in Swahili) and as_mnigolo_ (hippopotamus in Malinké). In the Portuguese African colonies andCongo Free State it was called a _chicote_, from the Portuguese word for whip.

In the Belgian Congo, the instrument was also known as _fimbo_ and was used to force labour from local people through flogging, sometimes to death. The official tariff for punishment in this case was lowered in time from twenty strokes to eight, then (in 1949) six, and progressively four and two, until flogging was outlawed completely in 1955. In North Africa, particularly Egypt, the whip was called a kurbash, after theArabic for whip. The term _shaabuug_ is used in the Somali language; it can also refer to a generic leather whip.


----------



## Tez3

Why are you telling us this?

Do you know the other day I saw a situation where I thought 'if only I had my lightsabre', that's my training btw. The school of 'if only'.


----------



## Jenna

Winchester said:


> The name SJAMBOK seems to have originated as_cambuk_ in Indonesia, where it was the name of a wooden rod for punishingslaves, where it was possibly derived from the Persian _chabouk_ or _chabuk_. When Malayan slaves arrived in South Africa in the 1800s, the instrument and its name were imported with them, the material was changed to hide, and the name was finally incorporated intoAfrikaans, spelled as _sambok_.
> 
> The instrument is also known as _imvubu_(hippopotamus in Zulu), _kiboko_(hippopotamus in Swahili) and as_mnigolo_ (hippopotamus in Malinké). In the Portuguese African colonies andCongo Free State it was called a _chicote_, from the Portuguese word for whip.
> 
> In the Belgian Congo, the instrument was also known as _fimbo_ and was used to force labour from local people through flogging, sometimes to death. The official tariff for punishment in this case was lowered in time from twenty strokes to eight, then (in 1949) six, and progressively four and two, until flogging was outlawed completely in 1955. In North Africa, particularly Egypt, the whip was called a kurbash, after theArabic for whip. The term _shaabuug_ is used in the Somali language; it can also refer to a generic leather whip.


In my Top Trumps cards, it seem my kukri beats your sjambok for damage.  Want another game of some thing else?


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> Whatever bro.  Think whatever the hell you want.  I don't give a ****.


Obviously.  Which is why you're still posting about it.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> The sjambok has stood the test of time proving it's superiority to all other flail-type weapons, offensively AND defensively.  It's combination of length, speed & pain potential are unmatched.


Yes, yes.  It's obviously a weapon clearly superior to everything else.  It's a valid defense against nuclear weapons.  If only Kennedy would have deployed sjamboks around Cuba the missile crisis would never have occurred.  You know, speaking from very nearly almost close to 12 whole months of practice with the weapon.



> We Americans & Europeans have barely scratched the surface of the sjambok's usefulness in SD.


Well, yeah.  I mean, it's not as if people of European extraction have been trading with and in Africa for centuries or anything.  It's lamentable that no one of European extraction was exposed to the weapon sooner than a couple of years ago.


----------



## lklawson

Tez3 said:


> You can speak for Europeans now? You have a good knowledge of laws in Europe? I think your love affair with this thing is clouding the facts.


It's Projection.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Winchester

JUDICIAL CORPORAL PUNISHMENT: Pictures of punishments


----------



## Winchester

lklawson said:


> Yes, yes.  It's obviously a weapon clearly superior to everything else.
> 
> Well, yeah.  I mean, it's not as if people of European extraction have been trading with and in Africa for centuries or anything.  It's lamentable that no one of European extraction was exposed to the weapon sooner than a couple of years ago.



#1)  I said the sjambok is superior to all FLAIL-TYPE weapons.

#2)  Theres a, huge difference between "exposure" 200yrs ago & exposure in a world of instantaneous information.  The internet makes somewhat of a difference in the # of people information about the sjambok can reach now as opposed to the early 1800's. 

Next?


----------



## Winchester

*"Nevertheless, there are any number of instances where pain and otherwise "superficial" injuries simply aren't enough to stop an attack*."

In those instances the only logical solution would be HAULIN' ***.


----------



## Tez3

Does posting gory pictures up add to the conversation? No, absolutely not in fact it confirms my thoughts on why some people are here.
I would like to ask 'Winchester' and 'Russian Whip' what martial arts they study, is Russian whip just here to sell his products and 'Winchester' to tell us how superior his sjambok ( if he had it with him) is?


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> #1)  I said the sjambok is superior to all FLAIL-TYPE weapons.
> 
> #2)  Theres a, huge difference between "exposure" 200yrs ago & exposure in a world of instantaneous information.  The internet makes somewhat of a difference in the # of people information about the sjambok can reach now as opposed to the early 1800's.
> 
> Next?


The sad thing is that it appears you actually believe this.

In ten or twenty years, after you've hopefully gained some understanding of weapons and martial arts and some maturity, think back to this time.


----------



## lklawson

Tez3 said:


> Does posting gory pictures up add to the conversation? No, absolutely not in fact it confirms my thoughts on why some people are here.
> I would like to ask 'Winchester' and 'Russian Whip' what martial arts they study, is Russian whip just here to sell his products and 'Winchester' to tell us how superior his sjambok ( if he had it with him) is?







Yeah, there's like a boat-load of gangs at this school. This one gang kept wanting me to join 'cause I'm pretty good with a sjambok.


----------



## Winchester

lklawson said:


> The sad thing is that it appears you actually believe this.
> 
> In ten or twenty years, after you've hopefully gained some understanding of weapons and martial arts and some maturity, think back to this time.



Your wrong.  The sjambok is all the weapon I need.  Karotty Dojo, Sensai strip mall BS martial arts I don't give a sh#= about.  Whatever severing an ear or finger or blinding an eye doesn't stop had dam sure better outrun me.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Winchester said:


> Your wrong.  The sjambok is all the weapon I need.  Karotty Dojo, Sensai strip mall BS martial arts I don't give a sh#= about.  Whatever severing an ear or finger or blinding an eye doesn't stop had dam sure better outrun me.


Or just stay far enough back and shoot you, if we're talking about someone trying to attack you, and see you carrying a giant whip.
I would much rather carry a smaller/concealable weapon, so they dont know  to stay out o f its range before i get a chance to use it.


----------



## Winchester

Your right. The CS sjambok is impossible to conceal.  Openly carrying it could have a definite deterrent effect, much like firearm open carry. No weapon is perfect.  I have no interest in guns or knives.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Winchester said:


> The sjambok is 42".  Hardly giant.  It's pointless to analyze endless hypotheticals.


That's not a hypothetical, it is a probability. Someone, at least in new york, wants to attack me, they see me carrying a giant whip. Assuming that I have not been arrested for carrying the weapon already, they either will choose a new target, or use a gun if there is a reason I was chosen. This isn't a hypothetical "maybe this will happen", those are the two biggest possibilities.


----------



## Winchester

Most fights are easily avoided.  Ignore & walk away is my policy. I don't go around with an attitude & try to get along with everyone.  

You must live in bad area.  I live in semi rural south Louisiana.  Most people get along where I live.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf

Winchester said:


> Most fights are easily avoided.  I don't go around with an attitude & try to get along with everyone.  Some idiots are so desperate for attention they'll settle for negative attention.


If you're carrying around a negative whip, I'm fairly certain that's being desperate for attention. And referring to things like karotty numchucks and sensai strip malls on a martial arts forum doesn't really make me think you try to get along with everyone.


----------



## Winchester

I don't "carry around" my sjambok.  The back sling is for when I ride my bike. Not strolling the mall or Wal Mart, that would be asking for trouble.

The sjambok as I said plenty of weapon for me.


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> I don't "carry around" my sjambok.  The back sling is for when I ride my bike. Not strolling the mall or Wal Mart, that would be asking for trouble.
> 
> The sjambok as I said plenty of weapon for me.



What martial art do you train?


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> Most fights are easily avoided.  Ignore & walk away is my policy. I don't go around with an attitude & try to get along with everyone.


Monkey Dance fights, yes.  Self Defense, no.



> You must live in bad area.  I live in semi rural south Louisiana.  Most people get along where I live.


----------



## lklawson

Winchester said:


> Your right. The CS sjambok is impossible to conceal.


Strangely enough, James' book, which you've referenced several times, lists at least 2 ways to conceal it which I can recall.



> I have no interest in guns or knives.


Or knowledge of, or skill in?


----------



## lklawson

Tez3 said:


> What martial art do you train?


I've asked him about his training and experience several times now.  Crickets.  Maybe you'll have better luck.

So far, every time he writes, I get images of Napoleon Dynamite.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


----------



## Tez3

Winchester said:


> I live in semi rural south Louisiana. Most people get along where I live.



We have an area like that here, Norfolk.  Urban Dictionary: Normal for Norfolk


----------



## Juany118

Winchester said:


> The Sjambok is IN MOST CASES one helluva self defense weapon.  The speed, the distance, the pain inflicted make it very hard to beat IMO.  It isn't perfect but nothing is.  I'd use it over a knife or a gun since those are potentially lethal weapons whereas the Sjambok isn't.  I don't wanna kill an attacker I want him to wake up for many mornings following an encounter w/ me in alot of pain realizing he made a huge mistake.  I won't be charged w/ murder or attempted murder.  A&B possibly but doubtful.
> 
> A few stikes to an attacker's face or hands will end most fights very quickly.  Once you've removed the dominant hand & an eye from the self-defense equation the odds are 80+% in you favor.  You realistically can't ask for much more than that from a $10 polypropylene weapon which will pass through any metal detector and can be concealed.
> 
> Knowledgeable opinions?


Just one thing.  In most States in the US such a weapon would at a minimum automatically rise to the level of Aggravated Assault and the weapon may, technically, be illegal.   Many States have in their statutes that lethal force can be used in self defense if the person believes that they need to protect themselves from "serious bodily injury", which is often defined as: Bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death or which causes serious, permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ."

I think your comment about taking out an eye would fall into that category and so I would use caution .


----------



## Juany118

Winchester said:


> Your right. The CS sjambok is impossible to conceal.  Openly carrying it could have a definite deterrent effect, much like firearm open carry. No weapon is perfect.  I have no interest in guns or knives.



The thing you forget is, under US Law carrying a firearm is Constitutionally protected, this weapon is not and is likely illegal in most jurisdictions as a Prohibitive Offensive weapon.  Additionally as I noted previously it's use likely justifies someone shooting you.

Thanks said I can understand a distaste of carrying a firearm but a knife?  Not only does that have utility but it's utility gets around pesky laws that prohibit the carrying of weapons that serve no other "legitimate" purpose than to harm another human being.  Personally I have always wondered why the modern interpretation of the 2nd Amendment only gets applied to firearms (from a purely Constitutional literalist point swords and knives were used A LOT in the 18th century on the battlefield) bit the laws are what they are.


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## lklawson

Juany118 said:


> Personally I have always wondered why the modern interpretation of the 2nd Amendment only gets applied to firearms (from a purely Constitutional literalist point swords and knives were used A LOT in the 18th century on the battlefield) bit the laws are what they are.


While avoiding modern politics (prohibited here on MT), the reason is most likely because the specific term "arms" was, at the time of writing, exclusive to what we now think of as "Military Small Arms."  I.E. longarms and handguns.  The specified goal, as accepted by SCOTUS in the Majority Opinions of U.S. v Miller in 1939 and D.C. v Heller in 2008, was to allow citizens ownership of personal firearms suitable for military service.

Basically "rifles, shotguns, and handguns."

There's a lot of scholarship surrounding looking at how the term "arms" was used in period and the gist of it is "guns."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## ScourgeOfAfrica

There are endless hypotheticals in SD.  The sjambok is a damn good non--lethal SD weapon for numerous possible situations.  Loriega makes note of the advantages of knowledge of filipino stick fighting arts as they relate to using the sjambok.  I'm not aware of another non-lethal SD weapon which delivers so much while requiring so little.


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## Juany118

ScourgeOfAfrica said:


> There are endless hypotheticals in SD.  The sjambok is a damn good non--lethal SD weapon for numerous possible situations.  Loriega makes note of the advantages of knowledge of filipino stick fighting arts as they relate to using the sjambok.  I'm not aware of another non-lethal SD weapon which delivers so much while requiring so little.



As I noted earlier, this weapon, even Kali sticks, pull them and in most US jurisdictions you justified someone shooting you.  It is not, legally, non-lethal at best it is "less lethal."


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## lklawson

ScourgeOfAfrica said:


> There are endless hypotheticals in SD.  The sjambok is a damn good non--lethal SD weapon for numerous possible situations.  Loriega makes note of the advantages of knowledge of filipino stick fighting arts as they relate to using the sjambok.  I'm not aware of another non-lethal SD weapon which delivers so much while requiring so little.


The sjambok is well documented to be able to inflict "serious bodily injury."  Most U.S. Jurisdictions allow for the use of Deadly Force in response to the threat of "serious bodily injury."

Legally speaking, in most places and from everything I can tell (INAL), there is no legal difference between a sjambok and a knife or a club.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## frank raud

I watched Searching  for Sugarman today. There is a scene with South African police using sjamboks to disperse a crowd.


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## Saffa

Hi guys, I found this thread while looking online to buy a sjambok here in Australia. I'm originally from South Africa so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Quick review on the Cold Steel sjambok which I received a couple days ago:
I've had and used a sjambok pretty much all my life. Primary used for dispatching venomous snakes specifically, which there are many in Northern KZN. Taken out about 10 snakes with it. One of which was a one hit decapitation when a snake stuck his head out of a exterior drain line.

The CS sjambok is quite a bit heavier than your typical sjambok from SA, especially the handle. I've given it a good swing or two and feel slower with it than my standard sjambok made in SA. I wouldn't feel as comfortable with it confronting a snake as my wrist control would be affected. My wife is petite so I'm not so sure how she'll handle it.
Don't get me wrong, I do like it. It's really well made and feels more like a self defence weapon.
My sjambok in SA was thinner and easy to use. I think I took out my first snake around 12 years old. I don't think I wouldn't have been able to with the CS one.

So my recommendation is if you're looking for a self defense weapon the CS one is probably better, however if you're primarily going to use it to control snake population I would probably recommend one off bidorbuy.co.za (SA's eBay equivalent). 

On side note, not one I'm proud of, but it may prove educational: When we were in our early teens my bigger, older brother and I got into a huge fight (he started it). He armed himself with a field hockey stick and I armed myself with the sjambok. The superior reach meant I won the exchange untouched with him getting a big ol cut above his eye. Obviously not a life or death situation but show me the damage it can do.


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## Jenna

Saffa said:


> Hi guys, I found this thread while looking online to buy a sjambok here in Australia. I'm originally from South Africa so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.
> 
> Quick review on the Cold Steel sjambok which I received a couple days ago:
> I've had and used a sjambok pretty much all my life. Primary used for dispatching venomous snakes specifically, which there are many in Northern KZN. Taken out about 10 snakes with it. One of which was a one hit decapitation when a snake stuck his head out of a exterior drain line.
> 
> The CS sjambok is quite a bit heavier than your typical sjambok from SA, especially the handle. I've given it a good swing or two and feel slower with it than my standard sjambok made in SA. I wouldn't feel as comfortable with it confronting a snake as my wrist control would be affected. My wife is petite so I'm not so sure how she'll handle it.
> Don't get me wrong, I do like it. It's really well made and feels more like a self defence weapon.
> My sjambok in SA was thinner and easy to use. I think I took out my first snake around 12 years old. I don't think I wouldn't have been able to with the CS one.
> 
> So my recommendation is if you're looking for a self defense weapon the CS one is probably better, however if you're primarily going to use it to control snake population I would probably recommend one off bidorbuy.co.za (SA's eBay equivalent).
> 
> On side note, not one I'm proud of, but it may prove educational: When we were in our early teens my bigger, older brother and I got into a huge fight (he started it). He armed himself with a field hockey stick and I armed myself with the sjambok. The superior reach meant I won the exchange untouched with him getting a big ol cut above his eye. Obviously not a life or death situation but show me the damage it can do.


Good to hear info from some one who have actually used it, thank you!  Tho can you carry it on a plane? cos you some time get lots of snakes on those too..


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## Saffa

Jenna said:


> Good to hear info from some one who have actually used it, thank you!  Tho can you carry it on a plane? cos you some time get lots of snakes on those too..


My final recommendation is that Samuel L Jackson is welding a sjambok if a sequel is made (please movie producers, don't a sequel).

It got delivered to my work so I had to take it on the train back home. Got some interesting looks.


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## lklawson

Saffa said:


> My final recommendation is that Samuel L Jackson is welding a sjambok if a sequel is made (please movie producers, don't a sequel).


How many Sharknado sequels are we up to now?  Snakes on a Plane sequel is definitely a possibility.  rofl

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## mwinchester

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT: Leather strap at Mississippi prison farm


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## Porong

My question is would there be a tactical advantage to figure out how to put a side handle on a sjambok????


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## Porong

harold said:


> Does anyone know where I might be able to get information on using the Sjambok? It is allegedly an ancient African whip used to herd cattle and also used for self defense. It was originally made from braided animal hide but is now made with synthetic materials.




Yeah the thing is basically a whipping rod I would imagine it would not be hard to figure out how to use it as defenaive device


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