# Is this a Wing Chun punch?



## TMA17 (Feb 20, 2018)

Notice the hip movement.  Doesn't resemble a true chain punch.


----------



## wckf92 (Feb 20, 2018)

TMA17 said:


> Notice the hip movement.  Doesn't resemble a true chain punch.



Are you referring to a specific time period In the video? If so what time stamp should we be looking at?


----------



## wckf92 (Feb 20, 2018)

By the way, hip movement is in second form


----------



## TMA17 (Feb 20, 2018)

I have only been shown the chain punch so far.  In the beginning of the video when he's moving towards the guy holding the bag he is using a straight punch but with more hip/body movement then I thought was not so common in WC.


----------



## Martial D (Feb 20, 2018)

Sifu looks stiff. Maybe that's just how his lineage is, but from my perspective it appears sloppy.


----------



## Cephalopod (Feb 20, 2018)

Nice power generation at the beginning of the video.

Don't be afraid of a little body rotation. As wckf92 points out, hip movement enters the picture at a chum kiu level, and when you start training the mook. You just want to make sure the point of impact (your fist) doesn't stray too far from your centerline, or you'll sacrifice defensive structure. I'd say he turns his trunk a little more than I would, but I like the way his fists come straight up and out instead of 'bicyling' in a circle the way that so many chain punchers do.

Now at 0:23 he starts pulling back his fists before each punch. Maybe just to show how much he can back up the target shield? I would never chamber back a punch unless my attacker is already incapacitated and I'm finishing him off.


----------



## KPM (Feb 20, 2018)

The sifu in the OP is one of Ho Kam Ming's top students.  When he is doing the chain punches at the beginning you cannot see his lower body.  My guess is that he is not doing the typical "chasing step", but rather is doing the "pivot step" from the knife form.  This would involve a pivot while advancing forward and so just naturally put more "hip" action and turning of the body into the punches.  So definitely a "Wing Chun punch."  And I don't think there is anything particularly "sloppy" here.  He is trying to show a relaxed power.  So he is not clinching his fists when punching in the air.  This gives them a bit of a "floppy" quality.  But that "floppiness" is what gives his punch that powerful snap that makes his wall bag bounce!


----------



## Cephalopod (Feb 20, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Sifu looks stiff. Maybe that's just how his lineage is, but from my perspective it appears sloppy.



I would guess the appearance of stiffness is a consequence of showing the young dude how hard he can hit. Hopefully he can also dial it back to bypass power.


----------



## drop bear (Feb 20, 2018)

TMA17 said:


> Notice the hip movement.  Doesn't resemble a true chain punch.



I had a huge argument with juanny about this. Apparently there is no hip movement.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 20, 2018)

If you want to throw 

- 6 punches in 1 second, you don't have time to put your hip movement into each and every punch.
- 1 punch in 2 seconds, you can put your full hip movement into it.


----------



## Martial D (Feb 20, 2018)

Cephalopod said:


> I would guess the appearance of stiffness is a consequence of showing the young dude how hard he can hit. Hopefully he can also dial it back to bypass power.


Yes but in the Wing Chun system(at least most lineages) the power comes from being loose and using body structure rather than clenched muscles. Clenching actually decreases the power.


----------



## drop bear (Feb 21, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Yes but in the Wing Chun system(at least most lineages) the power comes from being loose and using body structure rather than clenched muscles. Clenching actually decreases the power.



You probably want to be a pretty solid structure when you connect though.


----------



## Martial D (Feb 21, 2018)

drop bear said:


> You probably want to be a pretty solid structure when you connect though.


Some tighten up on impact, some stay loose all the way through.


----------



## Danny T (Feb 21, 2018)

Chain punches can be short and quick giving a burst of overwhelming number of punches or can be slower with greater power generated by the turning of the body more. Both are wing chun. Everything is situational. Use what is needed when it is needed.


----------



## Callen (Feb 21, 2018)

Yes, this is an example of a Wing Chun punch. Sifu Lui Ming Fai is illustrating how to generate power by driving the elbow through the hips. I agree with KPM and would not label this interpretation as being "sloppy", it is just simply different relaxed power than what some are used to seeing.

The Wing Chun punch is extremely adaptable once understood properly and does not have to originate from the "in-line" chambered position. A good Wing Chun punch can be released from wherever the hands are at that time. Chain punches are no exception to this.


----------



## Buka (Feb 21, 2018)

Looks like Wing Chun to me. Except there's nobody arguing in the video.


----------



## Martial D (Feb 21, 2018)

Buka said:


> Looks like Wing Chun to me. Except there's nobody arguing in the video.


LOL

It's certainly WC, and Sifu has definitely been at it a while.

Just a harder style than the average WC.


----------



## Juany118 (Feb 22, 2018)

drop bear said:


> I had a huge argument with juanny about this. Apparently there is no hip movement.



We we're talking past each other in that conversation as I pointed out then.  You were referring to hip movement I was talking about waist rotation, al la a "good night Irene" haymaker etc.  It took me a while to figure that out though because, if you recall, I actually am the one who shared this video during the conversation to show that the WC straight punch can generate good power, your contention at the time was that it didn't.


----------



## drop bear (Feb 22, 2018)

Juany118 said:


> We we're talking past each other in that conversation as I pointed out then.  You were referring to hip movement I was talking about waist rotation, al la a "good night Irene" haymaker etc.  It took me a while to figure that out though because, if you recall, I actually am the one who shared this video during the conversation to show that the WC straight punch can generate good power, your contention at the time was that it didn't.



The hips are on the waist.


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 22, 2018)

Juany118 said:


> You were referring to hip movement I was talking about waist rotation,...


What's the difference between hip movement and waist rotation? Could you put up a clip to show the difference?


----------



## wckf92 (Feb 22, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> What's the difference between hip movement and waist rotation?



Regardless, either one and/or both are hugely important for power generation!


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 22, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> Regardless, either one and/or both are hugely important for power generation!


But what's the difference?


----------



## wckf92 (Feb 22, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> But what's the difference?



Hips can move forward, back, etc. Whereas waist rotation implies circular movement.


----------



## wckf92 (Feb 22, 2018)

Both of which are seeded into the forms...


----------



## Juany118 (Feb 22, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> But what's the difference?



As was said already but I will use a different description.  When I put my hip into a strike, that side of my body is moving forward, towards my target.  If I put my waist into it, I am also rotating "across" my target.  In short it's the difference between maintaining the centerline principle or having my strike cross my centerline.

As for another response, the hip is the waist.  Anyone who has ever watched a woman get custom fitted for a dress or pants knows there is a difference between a waist and a hip measurement.


----------



## kravmaga1 (Apr 3, 2018)

Yes, it is a Wing Chun punch which is being shown in this video.


----------



## Ryan_ (Apr 22, 2018)

Hard to say.

Video blocked on copyright grounds.


----------



## Bino TWT (May 19, 2018)

Couldn't see the video, but...

1. Wing Tsun has many punches, not just one.
2. There are many ways to apply the techniques. As you get into the higher levels, you will realize that "always" and "never" do not exist when referring to application.
3. Every lineage has a different way of expressing the system. Every Si-fu and student has their own way of interpreting the material that's presented to them.
4. Before you can break or bend the rules to your will, you must first learn the rules. A lot of concepts that are taught early on to beginners are just training wheels while you are reprogramming your body.


----------



## Danny T (May 19, 2018)

Bino TWT said:


> There are many ways to apply the techniques. As you get into the higher levels, you will realize that "always" and "never" do not exist when referring to application.


Yep...as my sifu often states; "there's no right or wrong, there's only the consequence."



Bino TWT said:


> Every lineage has a different way of expressing the system. Every Si-fu and student has their own way of interpreting the material that's presented to them.





Bino TWT said:


> A lot of concepts that are taught early on to beginners are just training wheels while you are reprogramming your body.


Hmm...I think the concepts remain. However, a lot of the drills are performed specifically with certain rules for a reprogramming of sorts.
In time some of the rules are done away with and a freedom of expression is allowed.

Many, unfortunately never get to that point and some attempt to get there far to soon.


----------

