# The "perfect" art....



## CNida (Nov 9, 2013)

I am looking for some suggestions and recommendations for the perfect art.

When I say perfect, I of course mean something that is perfect FOR ME. Obviously there is no truly perfect art. And when I say for me, I mean something that fits well to my lifestyle and my profession in private security/law enforcement.

I have been considering Kenpo for some time. I just don't think Kenpo is what I am looking for, for reasons I don't want to elaborate on because  I am not sure how to without sounding disrespectful, nor do I want to sound completely ignorant as I have never practiced the art.

What would be ideal for me? An art that benefits from a flexible and physically fit practitioner, but doesn't rely on it. Something that can be used to safely handle aggressors while minimizing harm done to them while defending myself at the same time, but also something that can be overtly rough if necessary.

To that extent I considered Judo, but I would like something that has some degree of focus on strikes as well. I like Judo for its throws and it's ground capability which I think is something that is good to know just in case the fight goes that way. Yes, I know, I could easily sign on with a boxing gym as well but I wonder if there isn't a more practical option as well. 

I am wondering if there is a traditional art out there that has these things. Penny for your thoughts?


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## DennisBreene (Nov 10, 2013)

Consider looking in the realm of Aikido, jiu jitsu, Modern Arnis and hapkido.  This is a short list and I'm sure more educated Practioners can expand on this but it appears you are looking for something that blends offense, defense, control and scalability of response.


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## K-man (Nov 10, 2013)

*Dennis* has a good point with his selection but to become proficient at Aikido takes many years of dedicated training. In my case with an extensive MA background, it took about 5 or 6 years before I reached the stage where it becomes second nature. But it certainly has the attributes that you have listed.

But the style I would certainly consider if available is Systema. It relies on natural instincts, it teaches heavy strikes if required, all with the same body movement for different ranges, it teaches how to move comfortably on the ground, flexibility is a great asset, the legs are used for offence and defence, it trains multiple attacker scenario and is totally reality based. But the part of the training that fits best with the minimising harm scenario is the training, again with multiple attackers, to relax and move to escape from people trying to restrain you without actually hitting them.

Apart from all that it is an interesting art in that, like Aikido, it teaches total body relaxation.
:asian:


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## CNida (Nov 10, 2013)

I would love to learn systema. If I am not mistaken, doesn't it originate from Russia, like Sambo? Are there any similarities?


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## Kframe (Nov 10, 2013)

The perfect art is the one you like and will stick with. It took me over 2 years in the stereo typical mma training before I realized I didn't find as much enjoyment in it.  Don't get me wrong I like the kickboxing and boxing but there was no depth. We were never shown new things. In fact my biggest gripe was defenses. We only were taught the basic boxing covers and evasions. We were never taught the exquisite parries that boxing has. I had to self learn them from videos.  

There is no one perfect art that covers all ranges or situations. To have that its up to you to seek out the training to fill in the gaps you perceive you need filled.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 10, 2013)

It doesn't matter what style that you train, the best training order is to learn how to:

1. use a technique (for example a toe push kick to the chest).
2. enhance it (how to make your kick fast and strong).
3. counter it (arm block, leg block, move back, ...).
4. counter the counters (use your kick to set up your punch).
5. ...

After you have developed one technique, you start to develop your next technique. After you have all the tools that you need in your toolbox, you then start your "combo" development (such as a groin kick followed by a face punch).


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## K-man (Nov 10, 2013)

CNida said:


> I would love to learn systema. If I am not mistaken, doesn't it originate from Russia, like Sambo? Are there any similarities?


Apparently they developed pretty much in parallel. Both are thought to have started from the traditional fist fighting that the men indulged in every time the had a get together. That was based on dancing, hence the loose limbs. How much Mikhail Ryabko took from Sambo, who knows? But they are both recent (relatively) forms of MA.
:asian:


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## Hanzou (Nov 10, 2013)

I would recommend Brazilian Jiujitsu personally. If your goal is to dispatch an opponent in a humane and civilized way, Bjj is one of the best ways to learn to do exactly that. Putting someone to sleep via a choke, or locking someone in place until they say "uncle" or the cops come is far more gentle and civilized than ripping out a throat, or bashing someone's nose in with your head. Bjj will also get you in shape, since rolling is a very intense workout. There's not a lot of fatties doing Bjj.

Most Bjj schools will teach you striking and takedowns as well, but nothing beats a good ground game, since that will allow you to fully neutralize an opponent stronger than yourself. Keep in mind that many martial arts these days actively try to find ways to counter a good ground specialist. 

There's a good reason for that. Might as well learn from the source.


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## CNida (Nov 10, 2013)

It's not so much a preference for treating assailants humanely, but I work as a security officer at a local hospital. I am 6'3", 250 lbs., and lack the means to effectively handle some situations without causing unintentional harm. Namely when I have to deal with an intensely aggravated psychiatric patient. You might be able to match strength for strength with a person like that. I am somewhat knowledgeable of Brazilian jiujitsu but it would be somewhat unethical to place a person like that in a choke hold.

I just meant that I would like the art to be something that can be used to lethal and nonlethal effect equally well.... The ability to physically mitigate a threat offered by an enraged schizophrenic without causing any real harm to them, but an art that can be used to break bones if need be. Systema is starting to look more and more like what I am looking for.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2013)

Shuaijiao

Taijiquan

Baguazhang


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## Hanzou (Nov 10, 2013)

CNida said:


> It's not so much a preference for treating assailants humanely, but I work as a security officer at a local hospital. I am 6'3", 250 lbs., and lack the means to effectively handle some situations without causing unintentional harm. Namely when I have to deal with an intensely aggravated psychiatric patient. You might be able to match strength for strength with a person like that. I am somewhat knowledgeable of Brazilian jiujitsu but it would be somewhat unethical to place a person like that in a choke hold.
> 
> I just meant that I would like the art to be something that can be used to lethal and nonlethal effect equally well.... The ability to physically mitigate a threat offered by an enraged schizophrenic without causing any real harm to them, but an art that can be used to break bones if need be. Systema is starting to look more and more like what I am looking for.




Kind of interesting that they would frown on putting someone in a sleeper hold, but be okay with you snapping someone's limbs. Sounds like an interesting place to work. 

Anyway, sounds like you're leaning towards Systema. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy it. :asian:


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## CNida (Nov 10, 2013)

They frown on putting a PATIENT in a choke hold because a lot of the nurses here don't understand that a sleeper hold is relatively harmless, and aside from that, the patient is here to get treated for a medical or psychiatric issue. And yes, while I understand that choking them out would not hurt them as much as a takedown might, THEY dont share that sentiment. 

And as far as breaking bones, I meant that in a purely street/self defense angle, not in the hospital environment where I might be dealing with a patient who is someone's loved one. If my life is on the line, I don't care one way or another.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## K-man (Nov 10, 2013)

Interesting that if security guards use a sleeper hold now they can be charged with attempted murder.



> There is a similar provision in Western Australia (both as to objectivity and extension to agents) under the Criminal Code Act 1913 (WA). Section 254 of this Act allows an occupant some latitude in determining what amounts to &#8216;reasonable&#8217; force:
> 254 (1) ...
> (2) It is lawful for a person (&#8216;the occupant&#8217 who is in peaceable possession of any place, or who is entitled to the control or management of any place, to use such force as is reasonably necessary
> (a) to prevent a person from wrongfully entering the place;
> ...


And it would seem that there is similar restriction in the US.


> There are common misconceptions that bouncers have authority to pick someone up and physically remove them from the premises for violating a club rule. Some believe that bouncers can use pressure points, pain compliance holds, joint-manipulation, full-nelsons, chokeholds, wrist locks, and arm-bars to manhandle their patrons. This is generally not true.
> 
> Simply stated bouncers cannot legally use force against a patron being escorted out unless they are taking someone into custody for a crime or in self-defense. *When force is used it must be reasonable depending on the circumstances. Ordinarily, that means no tackling, no punching, no kicking, no choking, no head butts, no piling on top, no hog-ties, and no pain compliance holds unless necessary for self-defense.*
> http://www.crimedoctor.com/nightclub_security_3.htm


Not sure how BJJ fits in there at all. 

(Haven't we been down this "BJJ is best" track before?)


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## ballen0351 (Nov 10, 2013)

As a police officer its against my departments  general orders to use sleep, or choke holds.


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## ballen0351 (Nov 10, 2013)

If your looking for something you can use at work I'd suggest 1st read your use of force policy and see if anything is specifically banned from use like choke holds or arm bars or strikes to the face or whatever else . Then use that info to make an educated choice and go from there.  It's also hard to give suggestions if we don't know where you live or what's available.  If I suggested oh art xyz is great try it but art xyz is only taught 500 miles away it does you no good.


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## CNida (Nov 10, 2013)

Thats also another issue I am dealing with unfortunately. I am next to 100 percent certain that there are no Systema schools around here. Or instructors even.

And as a side note, yes, as a security guard, I have no authority whatsoever. No more than anyone else. This is a unique challenge in that I am still expected to act as an enforcer even that I can't forcefully extract someone from the premises. Sometimes it's all about being a good bluffer.

It's a travesty but alas.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## ballen0351 (Nov 10, 2013)

Might be easier to give us an idea of what's around you and then we can give you our penny


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 10, 2013)

First off the best thing would be to find an instructor of a system that you would enjoy training in.  That would be the most important thing.  You could check out everything in your local area, visit a class or train in one and see if you find a system that you would like to learn.

On a short list I would give you might be:

Filipino Martial Arts ie. Arnis, Kali, Eskrima

Budo Taijutsu

Bando

Silat

Krav Maga

of course I am also partial to Brazilian Jiujitsu as well!  For what you need that might be the ideal system. (ie. you need restraint and control techniques)

If you were in Las Vegas or the middle of Michigan I would say stop by and check out what we do in IRT.

Xue gave some excellent Chinese martial systems for you to look at as well.


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## Hanzou (Nov 11, 2013)

K-man said:


> Interesting that if security guards use a sleeper hold now they can be charged with attempted murder.
> 
> And it would seem that there is similar restriction in the US.
> Not sure how BJJ fits in there at all.
> ...



Bjj can fit in there easily since it teaches a variety of holds that can be applied in a variety of positions. I mean, if you're holding someone in place while sitting on top of them and smacking their hands away, I doubt you're going to get into too much trouble.

Anyway, no one is saying that Bjj is the best, however it would be silly not to acknowledge that Bjj has certain advantages over some other arts mentioned here. Mainly that it tends to be easier to find a legit Bjj school than most other styles, Bjj schools can be a bit easier to find than a Systema, Krav Maga, BBT, or exotic Kung Fu school, and there's the competitive aspect that is available if you wish to go beyond merely the self-defense aspect.


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## Mon Mon (Nov 11, 2013)

CNida There are a number of things you should consider. For work it has already been said know your use of force policy. I myself work as a Corrections officer and am very familiar with the use of force policy in the Department of Corrections. What i can tell you i have learned. Is that any line of work where you wear a badge is more about knowing how to talk and treat people than it is about putting your hands on people. I would look into Verbal Judo its a great way to learn how to talk to others and deescalate a potentially tense situation. 

I would recomend that if something happens at work and you can escape and call for backup first. If you can't you need to keep moving and keep your hands up. If you are on the street and get attacked its best to try to escape if possible. Generally speaking though if you pay attention to your surroundings and relax you can avoid most situations.

There are a number of arts that could meet your needs BJJ/MMA is a good one in that it offers some relatively quick skill sets that one could learn to develop and could teach you how to take a hit which by the way will happen in a fight you need to know your gonna get hit and how to take it. But there are many good arts out there find something you enjoy and study it. Have an open mind and know every art has something to teach you if you look at it from an open mind.

What city do you live in any way?


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## CNida (Nov 11, 2013)

Springdale, in the NW Arkansas area.

My department doesn't have a use of Force policy. My department is a private security company (Securitas), and is just in it for the buck. There is next to no training involved (couple of hours when it should be at least 80), but I would go on and on about why private security companies suck and get nowhere.

Verbal Judo? Never heard of it. Ironically, talking to people is our first line of defense and 90% of the time I can deter violence. It was a trait you learned quickly. However, I chiefly am required to assist nurses with patients that suffer from altered mental statuses, and it's next to impossible to reason with someone who can't even SEE reason. What training we do have is in a system called TACT, or therapeutic alternatives in crisis training. It's good for trying deescalate situations but the physical aspect is only good for dealing with elderly dementia patients who you can't even hold firmly by the arm without bruising.

It didn't help me at all when I was asked to restrain the psychiatric patient who stuck his finger into my left eye socket while he tried to tear my skull apart at the jaw. Not meant to exaggerate but that's what I have to deal with. The nurses are weak, fragile, frail, or self entitled and for one way or another can't be expected to help restrain their patient.

Around me there isn't much. Couple of MMA gyms which I do love but am not looking for the competition heavy environment. There is a Kenpo 5.0 school but it's questionable since the guy had a falling out with Jeff Speakman and has flat out confessed that his school isn't officially backed by Jeff and that it is not taught with the same principals. So, yeah, I am not interested in going to a gym/dojo that only cares about my money.

There is a few Krav Maga schools but I generally think Krav Maga is a bit too forceful for what I do. Obviously there is an assortment of TKD and Karate outlets. Even a Mong Su Dom Tai academy, though a lot of people outside the area haven't even heard of it. No BJJ or Judo schools, otherwise I'd probably be doing Judo.
One or two Aikido schools. And there is a guy offering to train Kali and eskrima in his garage for a less than modest fee. I worry about that though.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## Mon Mon (Nov 11, 2013)

Well i can tell you when it comes to the mentally ill you  must be very careful i have a friend who is a PT if you use too much physical force you can not only be fired but also be criminally charged.


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## RTKDCMB (Nov 11, 2013)

CNida said:


> When I say perfect, I of course mean something that is perfect FOR ME.



If you are asking what is the perfect art for you, only you can answer that, everyone else can only offer suggestions, usually it is the art they practice or something they would do if they were not already doing something else.


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## SENC-33 (Nov 11, 2013)

I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......

If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.

My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included  Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days


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## K-man (Nov 11, 2013)

CNida said:


> Around me there isn't much. Couple of MMA gyms which I do love but am not looking for the competition heavy environment. There is a Kenpo 5.0 school but it's questionable since the guy had a falling out with Jeff Speakman and has flat out confessed that his school isn't officially backed by Jeff and that it is not taught with the same principals. So, yeah, I am not interested in going to a gym/dojo that only cares about my money.
> 
> There is a few Krav Maga schools but I generally think Krav Maga is a bit too forceful for what I do. Obviously there is an assortment of TKD and Karate outlets. Even a Mong Su Dom Tai academy, though a lot of people outside the area haven't even heard of it. No BJJ or Judo schools, otherwise I'd probably be doing Judo.
> One or two Aikido schools. And there is a guy offering to train Kali and eskrima in his garage for a less than modest fee. I worry about that though.


Having seen the 'menu' my first choice for what you are looking for is the Aikido but with a proviso. I would talk with the teacher letting him/her know what you need to achieve in your training and then respectfully ask how he would deal with the type of situation you are likely to encounter.

Like most schools there are teachers of varying ability. You are a big guy so the teacher should be able to demonstrate controlling techniques on you that fall within the law and will not stress limbs etc. if he can't do that, with you resisting, go to the next school and so on.

(FWIW, I am qualified to teach KRAV and if you were to go down that road you would require specialised training as it really is a style that uses unbridled aggression to devastate an attacker, not control him.)
:asian:


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## K-man (Nov 11, 2013)

SENC-33 said:


> I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......
> 
> If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.
> 
> My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included  Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days


This is just to make you green with envy! 
 I spent the weekend training with Alex and have another session tomorrow night!


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## CNida (Nov 11, 2013)

RTKDCMB said:


> If you are asking what is the perfect art for you, only you can answer that, everyone else can only offer suggestions, usually it is the art they practice or something they would do if they were not already doing something else.



Thats all I was asking for, was recommendations that might fit my needs. I know noone knows what will be perfect for me. I just needed a place to start.



SENC-33 said:


> I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......
> 
> If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.
> 
> My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included  Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days



I haven't actually witnessed anyone train Systema in person, but from what I am reading and the Youtube videos it is something that I am liking more and more.

My situation is somewhat complicated but it is what it is. Systema looks like it has some very non-violent looking but very effective defensive techniques.

In a typical scenario, as hospital security I am asked to restrain psychotic individuals for one reason or another. I have been in multiple situations where a lack of training really was my deficit. I do have semi-formal training in BJJ/MMA under a former professional fighter in Korea by the name of Henry Jung.  I also trained some MMA in a gym around here but I truly feel that if I were to try and apply something I know on a patient, I would get in severe trouble simply because a nurse might think it looks excessive.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## SENC-33 (Nov 12, 2013)

K-man said:


> This is just to make you green with envy!
> I spent the weekend training with Alex and have another session tomorrow night!



Alex is top notch! And he hits extremely hard......He also has a great sense of humor


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## SENC-33 (Nov 12, 2013)

CNida said:


> Thats all I was asking for, was recommendations that might fit my needs. I know noone knows what will be perfect for me. I just needed a place to start.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can make any type of martial art or self defense violent or non violent. What Systema WILL infuse in you if you choose to study the full concept of it is humility. In your situation (restraint) you obviously have to be careful and the relaxation and tension controlled base of Systema is ideal.


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## chrispillertkd (Nov 12, 2013)

CNida said:


> I am wondering if there is a traditional art out there that has these things. Penny for your thoughts?



I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for, but the perfect art for you is the one you'll train in and spend time becoming proficient in. The other things you mentioned are all, to some extent, present in all martial arts. What matters most is finding something you feel compelled to train in (or, barring that, one you will show up at and apply yourself to because there will be days you simply don't feel like it).

Pax,

Chris


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## Langenschwert (Nov 13, 2013)

I dunno. I would thing gool old fashioned wrestling would be ideal for you. If you know how to control another person's body, you end up much safer in the long run. You can then branch out into more self-defence oriented training.

-Mark


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## Blindside (Nov 13, 2013)

CNida said:


> In a typical scenario, as hospital security I am asked to restrain psychotic individuals for one reason or another. I have been in multiple situations where a lack of training really was my deficit. I do have semi-formal training in BJJ/MMA under a former professional fighter in Korea by the name of Henry Jung.  I also trained some MMA in a gym around here but I truly feel that if I were to try and apply something I know on a patient, I would get in severe trouble simply because a nurse might think it looks excessive.



One of my students is the lone male nurse in a psych hospital, he is frequently (t)asked to do exactly the same types of control situations that you run into.  The art I teach (Pekiti Tirsia Kali) on first blush is not a great fit for his needs, he doesn't find much application for dueling with a machete in his day to day.  However, we also work on lots of arm controls (need to control that weapon arm), jointlocks, and takedowns, and he winds up applying those regularly.  I'm not saying you need to study Kali, but I think you will find that many arts will have those sorts of things in their curriculum, even if it isn't the most obvious thing.  The trick is finding an instructor who can teach a practical version of it to you, and one that will fit under the restrictions you operate in.


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## Fritz (Nov 13, 2013)

Research the arts of course, but pay good attention to your teacher- or potential teacher. As long as you study under them, THEY are the representation of the art, and you will be spending a TON of time with them. Make sure they are teaching what you want to learn, and make sure you are willing to listen and learn from them.


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## TaiChiTJ (Nov 13, 2013)

K-man said:


> I would talk with the teacher letting him/her know what you need to achieve in your training and then respectfully ask how he would deal with the type of situation you are likely to encounter.:asian:



The above advice is right on the money. Who knows, maybe one of these teachers has experience in your type of needs.


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## Langenschwert (Nov 14, 2013)

Blindside said:


> ...he doesn't find much application for dueling with a machete in his day to day.



Am I the only one who finds that a little sad? 

-Mark


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## K-man (Nov 14, 2013)

Langenschwert said:


> Am I the only one who finds that a little sad?
> 
> -Mark


Probably ... but keep taking the tablets anyway.


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## CK1980 (Nov 14, 2013)

As a law enforcement professional myself, I feel confident I can help you out some...  You would want to study some type of art that teaches stick techniques (weapon)- like Kali.  The reason is very practical...  I am assuming you carry some type of baton (ASP, #9 straight, etc.) therefore, any type of baton like weapon techniques are going to enhance your ability.

Keep in mind that because of the duty gear you use, you do not necessarily want to end up on the ground, but you should still know how to defend yourself if you do end up there...  Not to stay and fight, but to get back on your feet as quickly as possible...  So, any type of art that teaches you how to stand up "in base" would be good.  Standard Karate, JKD, Gojo Shorei, and Krav Maga all teach that technique.

You would also want to study something that teaches a plethora of trapping and holding techniques...  This is probably easier obtained through defensive tactics seminars than through a martial arts school, but having a foundation in martial arts will definitely make those courses easier.

I know its kind of vague to list a bunch of different styles as suggestions, but those are the most applicable in my opinion- given your qualifier of relating to your job/lifestyle choices.


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## CNida (Nov 14, 2013)

CK1980 said:


> As a law enforcement professional myself, I feel confident I can help you out some...  You would want to study some type of art that teaches stick techniques (weapon)- like Kali.  The reason is very practical...  I am assuming you carry some type of baton (ASP, #9 straight, etc.) therefore, any type of baton like weapon techniques are going to enhance your ability.
> 
> Keep in mind that because of the duty gear you use, you do not necessarily want to end up on the ground, but you should still know how to defend yourself if you do end up there...  Not to stay and fight, but to get back on your feet as quickly as possible...  So, any type of art that teaches you how to stand up "in base" would be good.  Standard Karate, JKD, Gojo Shorei, and Krav Maga all teach that technique.
> 
> ...



Sadly, the only things we are given to use are a pager and a radio. No weapons. And given that my job is provide to me through a third party company ( Securitas ), I am not surprised. I have a military background, and my supervisor has nearly 20 years of hospital security experience. That said, they usually hire a bunch of 18 year olds who are either to afraid to do their job or are all too excited to get to put their hands on someone, which can be a bad mindset when it comes to the use of batons or tazers or any sort of lethal/nonlethal weapon.

I am all for learning techniques that keep the fight upright and techniques to get the fight off the ground. I know enough about fighting on the ground to defend myself, at least against an untrained assailant.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous


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## Langenschwert (Nov 15, 2013)

K-man said:


> Probably ... but keep taking the tablets anyway.



The doctor say once I'm up to 650 watts I'll be feeling much better. 

-Mark


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## K-man (Nov 15, 2013)

Langenschwert said:


> The doctor say once I'm up to 650 watts I'll be feeling much better.
> 
> -Mark


Now that's a shocking admission.


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## Langenschwert (Nov 15, 2013)

K-man said:


> Now that's a shocking admission.









-Mark


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## CK1980 (Nov 15, 2013)

CNida said:


> they usually hire a bunch of 18 year olds who are either to afraid to do their job or are all too excited to get to put their hands on someone, which can be a bad mindset when it comes to the use of batons or tazers or any sort of lethal/nonlethal weapon.
> 
> I am all for learning techniques that keep the fight upright and techniques to get the fight off the ground. I know enough about fighting on the ground to defend myself, at least against an untrained assailant.



Well, that being said, there are plenty of DT courses you could take.  Unfortunately, (and having worked for Securitas in the past I know this to be true) your company probably wont pay you to go and probably doesn't pay you enough to afford to go.

If you know ground fighting, then you are already a step ahead of the game...  The same techniques you can apply on the ground (arm bars, shoulder locks, etc.) can be applied standing as well.  Find yourself a buddy to work on it and you can probably figure it out for yourself.

But, my advise remains the same, find a school that teaches something like Kali and something with a lot of stand up trapping techniques.


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