# Katrina reaches catagory 5



## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/

New Orleans is shaped like a bowl.  The levee system around the city blocked the Mississippi River from deposting sediment so the pre-existing sediment load just keeps sinking isostatically.  The city is below sea level and a possible 25 foot storm surge is heading toward it.  Lake Ponchatrain could very well _move_ and become Lake New Orleans.  Over 100,000 people do not have the capacity to escape because they are too old or poor.  City officials plan to use the Super Dome to house them.

A couple of things we could discuss...

1.  These hurricanes are being tripped off in water that rose one degree because of global warming.  Anyone want to reconsider the Kyoto Treaty in the face of billions in damage and possible thousands of lives?

2.  We have built large cities in some very geologically stupid areas and we will continue throwing billions of dollars at reoccuring disasters.  Is there anything we can do about this?


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## Senjojutsu (Aug 28, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> 1. These hurricanes are being tripped off in water that rose one degree because of global warming. Anyone want to reconsider the Kyoto Treaty in the face of billions in damage and possible thousands of lives?


Well I hate to bring up the fact there have been devastating hurricanes recorded well before 1975 hitting the USA. We just have 24x7-news coverage and better technology to warn us, and hype for TV ratings. Just watch the news coverage of blizzards in New England during the winter season - wall-to-wall coverage of snowplows and doppler radar. 



			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> 2. We have built large cities in some very geologically stupid areas and we will continue throwing billions of dollars at reoccuring disasters. Is there anything we can do about this?


Stop spending taxpayers money to repair the damage may be a first step! 
Which courageous politician will propose that concept in your opinion? 

Are you suggesting that we dictatorially force tens of millions of Americans to relocate to say Kansas and Nebraska based on your risk criteria? 

Depopulate the coastlines?? Who will pay the $TRILLIONS for that edict's implementation???

In human history most, but not all, great cities have been built near water - oceans or rivers, which means occasional destruction/damage due to flooding. Then there are the cities built in the shadow of (dormant!!) volcanoes or on fault lines. 

Life is risky, what really is open for debate is who should pay for the repairs/protective measures based on choices made within the constraints of a modern nation state. It seems like during the past decade half the counties in America have been declared disaster areas at one time or another. Winds, wildfires, floods, ice storms, blizzards, drought !!it & FEMA happens.


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## Sapper6 (Aug 28, 2005)

the kyoto treaty was a fraud and it's proponents know it.



> If you put the Kyoto treaty into the IPCC computer model, you find that the difference Kyoto would make by 2100 (the normal benchmark year) cannot be measured. That is, the predicted change in global average temperature (or pick your parameter) is so small that one could not tell, by looking at the temperature data, whether or not Kyoto had been in effect for 100 years. Looked at another way, Kyoto does not end anthropogenic warming, but only slows it down by 6 years out of 100.
> 
> If you pin down a knowledgeable Kyoto advocate and ask them about this, they will (if they are honest) admit that this is true. You will then learn that the purpose of Kyoto is "to get a climate control regime started." Translated, this means "to stop anthropogenic global warming, we must make drastic cuts in CO2 usage in the future. But those will be enormously economically damaging and are not politically possible. So, we will start with a little step. Then we will do another little step, and eventually sneak the whole thing in." Of course, one may also notice that Kyoto was written in a way to hurt the United States to the benefit of western Europe, China and India.





> Finally, regarding Kyoto, if the science shown above hasn't convinced you that it is an extremely dumb idea, consider that for it to achieve its neglible effects, mankind must behave itself for the next 100 years. No major wars, no big energy using rogue nations, no technological changes that invalidate the assumptions, etc. So just imagine that it is 1903 and we have the same data and are trying to achieve the same results. What would happen?
> 
> Obviously, the enormous political and technological changes of the 20th century would have rendered it moot. WW-I, WW-II, the rise of the huge communist states which had zero interest in reducing pollution, the huge increase in oil use, the invention of the computer, the atomic bomb, relativity theory..... Do we really expect the 21st century to be so boring and predictable that Kyoto would be meaningful after 100 years, given past history?



how about we not look for blame and point fingers.  it's a friggin hurricane and they've been around long before global warming was a conceivable idea.

where would you suggest we move all our cities to?  you're not going to escape nature, ever.  we deal with that.


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## arnisador (Aug 28, 2005)

Scary. Imagine evacuating all of New Orleans--what a feat!


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

> *Urgent Weather Message from NWS New Orleans
> 
> WWUS74 KLIX 281550NPWLIXURGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
> 
> ...


 

This is without a doubt the most horrifying weather warning that I have ever seen.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

> * WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED.*





> *ATLEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.*





> *ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED*





> *HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE*





> *AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES.*





> *THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATEADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK*





> * FEWCROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BEKILLED*





> *ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTUREOUTSIDE!*


God help those that haven't evacuated by now...they'll never get out in time.






Bumper to Bumper.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> This is without a doubt the most horrifying weather warning that I have ever seen.


Up to three million people will be displaced by Mother Nature in the next 48 hours.  People will lose their houses, their neighborhoods, their jobs, their livelihoods and maybe even their lives.  I have spoken to some hydrologist friends of mine and some even think the city of New Orleans may be uninhabitable after this...ie it will not be rebuilt.

As the destruction unfolds, pray for the victims and do what you can to aid them.  This could very well be the largest natural disaster in the history of the US.

Also, consider the science.  We've had 7 named tropical storms already this year.  This is more then any time in recorded history.  We've measured rises in ocean temperature in relation to rises in climate temperature and it has been shown to directly attribute to a rise in the number of hurricanes and the overall strength of hurricanes.  Most scientists agree, this is a result of global warming.  

So what do we do?  If Kyoto isn't good enough, what is?  If we do nothing, we can expect more of the above to happen more frequently in the future.  This is where the rubber meets the pavement, folks.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

I was just watching CNN. They emergency shelters are not allowing everyone in. 2,000 people outside chanting "let us in! let us in!".

There are 100,000 people in New Orleans without transportation. Just heard that from CNN. Will try to find a link to confirm.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/index.html



> *Katrina could inundate New Orleans*
> 
> *NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Emergency officials in New Orleans braced for a potentially catastrophic blow on Sunday as Hurricane Katrina swept toward the Gulf Coast -- and the city -- with maximum sustained winds near 175 mph.*
> Mayor Ray Nagin declared a state of emergency on Sunday and ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city the Category 5 storm approached.
> ...


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

*



			New Orleans mayor orders 'mandatory' evacuation as hurricane nears
		
Click to expand...

*


> I do not want to create panic. But I do want the citizens to understand that this is very serious and it's of the highest nature. And that's why we take this unprecedented move," said Mayor Ray Nagin, announcing the evacuation order
> 
> ...
> He said those unable to get out of New Orleans ahead of Katrina's vast wrath should head to the city's massive Superdome football stadium, which he designated as *a refuge of "last resort*."


http://www.topix.net/city/new-orleans-la


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## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

I feel humbled by this whole thing.  Minnesota is a long way from New Orleans, but we share a river.  I'm looking at my options to see what I can do to help with the aftermath.  From farther away, removed from the danger, its easier to think about things like oceanography, hydrology, and global warming.  Yet, one fact remains.  

Life is going to change irrevocably for millions of people.  

This discussion isn't a callous argument about political positions for me.  This is about science and the interface of science with our lives.  This is the human side of what we talk about and about what I teach.  For me, my compassion for the people and the science behind their plight are intertwined.  

An explanation for these kinds of events exists.  God isn't calling down the heavens to punish the people of New Orleans.  Physical factors caused this storm.  Physical factors that we effect.

upnorthkyosa


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

Sorry, didn't realize I was Hi-Jacking your thread until I re-read your initial post.

Maybe I can get a Moderator to split my posts off.

This event is horrifying...  I hope that the football stadium is not below sea level if they are expecting their levees to be overcome.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> Sorry, didn't realize I was Hi-Jacking your thread.
> 
> Maybe I can get a Moderator to split my posts off.


Oh, no, this is perfect.  Discussing the storm itself, its effects, its causes, and things related is great.  I think your posts are helping form a big picture of what is going on.  Like I said above, this is where the rubber meets the road in regards to science.  This is the human side.  Keep it up!

:asian: 

upnorthkyosa


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## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> This event is horrifying... I hope that the football stadium is not below sea level if they are expecting their levees to be overcome.


If one were to float a ship on the Mississippi over the Superdome, it would hover over it like a blimp.  One can stand next to it and stare _up_ at the river.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

The size of this thing nearly fills the ENTIRE gulf:

http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/2xg1_ir_anim.gif

http://radar.weather.gov/radar/latest/DS.p37cr/si.klix.shtml


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## Makalakumu (Aug 28, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> The size of this thing nearly fills the ENTIRE gulf:
> 
> http://www.wunderground.com/data/640x480/2xg1_ir_anim.gif
> 
> http://radar.weather.gov/radar/latest/DS.p37cr/si.klix.shtml


You know, in the eye of this hurricane, birds are trapped, the sun is shining, and everything is calm.  In the walls of the eye, the winds are the strongest.  The packs a double whammy when it comes to hurricanes.  Both sides of the eye wall pack equal winds, but in opposite directions.

Meteorologist have predicted that this storm will keep strengthening...even to the point of rivalling hurricane Camille in 1969.  Camille had sustained winds of 205 mph and it was the strongest hurricane ever recorded.  

Even if it doesn't strengthen, the eye is still predicted to pass over New Orleans.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/12487825.htm


> Katrina could be especially devastating if it strikes New Orleans because the city sits below sea level and is dependent on levees and pumps to keep the water out. A direct hit could wind up submerging the city in several feet of water.


 
Found a news link for the 100,000 people without transportation (that's not the focus of the story though):


> Making matters worse, *at least 100,000 people in the city lack the transportation to get out of town*. Nagin said the Superdome might be used as a shelter of last resort for people who have no cars, with city bus pick-up points around New Orleans.





> "I know they're saying `Get out of town,' but I don't have any way to get out," said Hattie Johns, 74. "If you don't have no money, you can't go."





> Owners of gas stations in and around New Orleans were forced to direct traffic as lines to the pumps stretched down surrounding streets. Gas stations were running low on gas by midafternoon Saturday
> "I was in line at the bank for an hour and have been waiting for gas for 30 minutes," said John Sullivan. "If it's anything like they say its going to be, we don't want to be anywhere close to the city."





> "The problem is getting a taxi to the airport. There aren't any," said Brian Katz, a salesman from New York





> Others tried leaving but couldn't get a flight.
> "We tried to move it up, but they told us they were all booked up," said Terry Evans of Cleveland, whose flight was supposed to leave Monday morning. "We may end up sleeping at the airport."





> Katrina is the 11th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season, which began June 1. That's seven more than typically have formed by now in the Atlantic, Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico, the hurricane center said. The season ends Nov. 30.


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## Sapper6 (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8245668/

*Will global warming make hurricanes stronger?
Scientists debate potential impact on future storm patterns.*



> "Trends in human-influenced environmental changes are now evident in hurricane regions," Trenberth said. "These changes are expected to affect hurricane intensity and rainfall, but the effect on hurricane numbers remains unclear. The key scientific question is how hurricanes are changing."
> 
> He thought that global warming could have an impact on hurricanes, but he quoted one study that predicted only a 5 percent change in wind speeds over 80 years due to increases in heat-trapping greenhouse gases.
> 
> It doesnt mean there is zero effect, he said.  But thats hardly measurable.



http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2005/trenberth.shtml



> "Computer models also suggest a shift in hurricane intensities toward extreme hurricanes," says Trenberth.
> 
> Much more uncertain is the effect of human-induced climate change on hurricane numbers and landfalls. Models disagree on how global warming might affect the wind shear that can either support or discourage hurricane formation.
> 
> Globally, the number of hurricanes and typhoons tends to hold relatively steady from year to year. When activity increases in the Atlantic, it often decreases in the Pacific, and vice versa, based in part on El Niño and La Niña.



while i agree with you that human interaction with the planet's atmosphere has a direct effect on weather, it should be noted that such is really minor in the scheme of things.  to say we can prevent extreme deadly hurricanes _now_, well, we would have had to implemented these preventive measures over a hundred years ago.  while we live here, we must concede that there are just some things we cannot change or prevent.  even if we were to start implementing these things to cut down or even eliminate greenhouse gases and slowing the effects of global warming, the fruits of our labor wouldn't be evident for hundreds of years.  there's not going to be a change noticed in a short amount of time.

until then, we should use common sense in personal safety to live through these catastrophic events...and hope they speed up the development of those "moon cities".  life on earth is going to get much worse before it gets better and human's shouldn't be entirely to blame.  perhaps some of you have heard that the earth's core is heating up and starting to spin at a faster rate than the planet itself.  this is bound to have an ecological and atmospherical effect.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

I can't seem to find any information of the military assisting in the evacuation...

Why aren't there any c-130's and c-141's flying into the airport to lift the stranded out? If they can arange for the city buses to pick people up from around the city and drop them at the stadium, why can't they drop them at the airport for emergency evacuation by Air Force transports? You can not tell me that ALL of the transports are in Iraq. I this situation the military should assist. Pres. Bush has already made a declaration of emergency for the area. Usually, they don't do that till afterward. Dammit, get the planes in there!


...how about the commercial airlines provide free evacuations? Oh yeah, they can't make any money off of saving anyone's life.


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## Sapper6 (Aug 28, 2005)

Theban_Legion said:
			
		

> I can't seem to find any information of the military assisting in the evacuation...
> 
> Why aren't there any c-130's and c-141's flying into the airport to lift the stranded out? If they can arange for the city buses to pick people up from around the city and drop them at the stadium, why can't they drop them at the airport for emergency evacuation by Air Force transports?  You can not tell me that ALL of the transports are in Iraq. I this situation the military should assist.  Pres. Bush has already made a declaration of emergency for the area. Usually, they don't do that till afterward. Dammit, get the planes in there!



while i agree with your frustrations, the military isn't going to act until asked to do so.  the help must be requested from the state, and won't be done until all other evac resources have been exhausted.  as for using c-130s and the like to evac civilian personnel, these aircraft just aren't "civilian friendly".  although there are a number of applicable aircraft that can be used.  it really isn't a plausible idea.

now using commercial planes, that would be a better idea.  would it happen, probably not.  too much liability in saving lives to make it worth their while.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/28/D8C92FA80.html



> Conceding that as many as 100,000 inner-city residents didn't have the means to leave and an untold number of tourists were stranded by the *closing of the airport, the city arranged buses to take people to 10 last-resort shelters, including the Superdome*





> Nagin also dispatched police and firefighters to rouse people out with sirens and bullhorns, and even gave them the authority to commandeer vehicles to aid in the evacuation. "This is very serious, of the highest nature," the mayor said. "This is a once-in-a-lifetime event."





> Estimates have been made of tens of thousands of deaths from flooding that could overrun the levees and turn New Orleans into a 30-foot-deep toxic lake filled with chemicals and petroleum from refineries, and waste from ruined septic systems





> "We're not evacuating," said 57-year-old Julie Paul. "None of us have any place to go. We're counting on the Superdome. That's our lifesaver."





> The 70,000-seat Superdome, the home of football's Saints, opened at daybreak Sunday, giving first priority to frail, elderly people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks. They were told to bring enough food, water and medicine to last up to five days. By afternoon, people with bags of belongings lined up outside *hoping to get in.*





> Sasha Gayer tried to get an Amtrak train out of town but couldn't. So she walked back to the French Quarter, buying supplies on the way, and then stopped at one of the few bars open on Bourbon Street. "This is how you know it's a serious hurricane," she said. "You can't find a slice of white bread in the city, but you can still buy beer."





> But the evacuation was slow going. Highways in Louisiana and Mississippi were jammed as people headed away from Katrina's expected landfall. All lanes were limited to northbound traffic on Interstates 55 and 59, and westbound on I-10.





> His wife, wearing a Bourbon Street T-shirt with a lewd message, interjected: "I just don't want to die in this shirt."


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> while i agree with your frustrations, the military isn't going to act until asked to do so. the help must be requested from the state, and won't be done until all other evac resources have been exhausted.


That's what I was really asking. Why hasn't the order been given? All the Pres. has to do is give the order to render full assistance to the city and surrounding areas. 



> as for using c-130s and the like to evac civilian personnel, these aircraft just aren't "civilian friendly". although there are a number of applicable aircraft that can be used. it really isn't a plausible idea.


Yeah, I jumped out of them (5 jump chump). They are not civilian friendly in the least bit, but it is better than dying. 



> now using commercial planes, that would be a better idea. would it happen, probably not. too much liability in saving lives to make it worth their while.


Yep.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> You know, in the eye of this hurricane, birds are trapped, the sun is shining, and everything is calm. In the walls of the eye, the winds are the strongest. The packs a double whammy when it comes to hurricanes. Both sides of the eye wall pack equal winds, but in opposite directions.
> ...
> Even if it doesn't strengthen, the eye is still predicted to pass over New Orleans.


Yeah, the damage is going to be teremendous. New Orleans is going to get shredded. There is no hope that many people will not die.

I didn't even know that there was a hurricane coming until I read your post earlier today.  Had my nose buried in various text books.  Maybe I ought to check the news every now and then.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

http://www.weather.com/newscenter/tropical/


> A storm surge of 20 to 25 feet or more is possible along and to the east of Katrina's landfall point Monday. On top of the water rise,* pounding waves of 20 to 40 feet *will produce catastrophic damage at coastal locations.





> Effects from Katrina will not be confined to coastal areas. Once Hurricane Katrina makes landfall, it will progress inland Monday into Tuesday with a trail of flooding rains and damaging winds across Mississippi and Alabama and then into *Tennessee.* Torrential, flooding rainfall is possible with the remnants of Katrina well inland, possibly into the *Ohio Valley, Great Lakes and the Northeast later this week*


Ohio Valley? Great Lakes? What a monsterous storm...
Anyone ever watched the movie, "Day After Tomarrow"?


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## MisterMike (Aug 28, 2005)

Most hurricaines cause rain up in the Northeast. This isn't anything new.

Global warming the cause? I don't think so. It was a butterfly over in Japan...

Is this type of damage covered under any "Act of God" insurance clauses? Funny it chose New Orleans...


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 28, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Most hurricaines cause rain up in the Northeast. This isn't anything new.


Rain, yes, but flooding? That is torential. 



> Global warming the cause? I don't think so. It was a butterfly over in Japan...


Ahhhh, a little chaos theory... :rofl: Your probably right! 



> Is this type of damage covered under any "Act of God" insurance clauses? Funny it chose New Orleans...


I was watching CNN earlier, and they were interviewing a PR Rep from one of the major insurance companies. She said that unless the homeowner thought to purchase flood insurance in addition to their homeowners insurance they would not be covered for any water damages...and that is the damage that everyone is most worried about.

She also said that flood insurance was not available to homes on the coastline, so they are just screwed.


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## Jonathan Randall (Aug 28, 2005)

Dear God, let the center of this storm miss New Orleans. I had no idea until a few hours ago how bad this situation really is. It may very well eclipse the Attack on America and the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in terms of loss of life and cost to the country.

I agree with previous posters. It is not blame time, it is EVACUATION TIME. I pray for the safety of my countrymen in Louisianna.


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## Tgace (Aug 28, 2005)

Most hurricanes that come up the Gulf cause rain up here. I believe there is the possibility of floods in our known flood zones. I dont expect Erie to engulf the city over this....

Still wouldnt want to be in the Big Easy right now.


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## bignick (Aug 28, 2005)

As far as military goes, my buddy is stationed at Ft. Polk a few hours north of New Orleans, I believe.  Sounds like they're all packed up and ready to go.  Just waiting for the orders basically.

He said that they were expecting four stories of water and the possibility of toxins being released and making parts of the city uninhabitable for a long time.  

It's a very sobering testament to the power of Nature that we may wake up tomorrow or the next day and New Orleans could, for all intents and purposes...be gone....


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## Tgace (Aug 28, 2005)

Ahhh..Fort Polk.

I spent 3 weeks at fort Polk for JRTC and all I got was this lousy tattoo.


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## arnisador (Aug 28, 2005)

That was an unambiguous warning from the NWS.

Let's hope it weakens before landfall.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 29, 2005)

The hurricane is tracking a little east.  This is good for the Big Easy.  The west winds are bad, but at least the storm surge from the ocean will be less.  Of course, the west winds could push lake Ponchatrain and Ol Miss over their banks.  We'll just have to see.

btw - probing causation is not blaming.  If "blame" exists at all in this case in regards to global warming, we all share it.


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## arnisador (Aug 29, 2005)

Some horrifying reports of people trapped by the rising waters. One thinks that modern homes are so very safe, and they are...but...


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 29, 2005)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/29/D8C9R7R81.html



> On Jackson Square, two massive oak trees outside the 278-year-old St. Louis Cathedral came out by the roots, ripping out a 30-foot section of ornamental iron fence and straddling a marble statue of Jesus Christ, *snapping off the thumb and forefinger of his outstretched hand*.


Eeegh...I don't really think that I am one who sees signs from the heavens everywhere I look, but...Eeegh...




> But it was plenty bad, in New Orleans and elsewhere along the coast, where scores people had to be rescued from rooftops and attics as the floodwaters rose around them.





> "Some of them, it was their last night on Earth," Terry Ebbert, chief of homeland security for New Orleans, said of people who ignored orders to evacuate the city of 480,000 over the weekend. "That's a hard way to learn a lesson." "We pray that the loss of life is very limited, but we fear that is not the case," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said.


 



> Katrina knocked out power to more than three-quarters of a million people from Louisiana to the Florida's Panhandle, and authorities said *it could be two months before electricity is restored to everyone. Ten major hospitals in New Orleans were running on emergency backup power.*


 



> The federal government began rushing baby formula, communications equipment, generators, water and ice into hard-hit areas, along with doctors, nurses and first-aid supplies. The Pentagon sent experts to help with search-and-rescue operations.


 



> In nearby coastal St. Bernard Parish, Katrina's *storm surge swamped an estimated 40,000 homes*. In a particularly low-lying neighborhood on the south shore of Lake Ponchartain, *a levee along a canal gave way* and forced dozens of residents to flee or scramble to the roofs when water rose to their gutters.


 



> Across a street that had turned into a river bobbing with garbage cans, trash and old tires, a woman leaned from the second-story window of a brick home and pleaded to be rescued.
> 
> "There are three kids in here," the woman said. "Can you help us?"
> 
> Blanco said 200 people have been rescued in boats from rooftops, attics and other locations around the New Orleans area, a scene playing out in Mississippi as well. In some cases, *rescuers are sawing through roofs to get to people in attics*, and other *stranded residents "are swimming to our boats,"* the governor said. Elsewhere along the Gulf Coast, Mississippi was subjected to both Katrina's harshest winds and highest recorded *storm surges _ 22 feet*. *The storm pushed water up to the second floor of homes*, flooded floating casinos, uprooted hundreds of trees and *flung sailboats across a highway*.





> "Let me tell you something, folks: I've been out there. It's *complete devastation*," said Gulfport, Miss., Fire Chief Pat Sullivan


 




> *In some cases, debris was stacked 4 to 5 feet, covering cars. Houses were washed from their foundations*


 




> "There are lots of homes through here worth a million dollars. At least they were yesterday,"


 



> But *the doomsday vision* of hurricane waters spilling over levees and swamping the city in a toxic soup of refinery chemicals, sewage and human bodies *never materialized*.


 



> *Forecasters said New Orleans* _ which has not been hit directly by a major storm since Category 3 Hurricane Betsy struck in 1965 _ *got lucky again*


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## Makalakumu (Aug 30, 2005)

The levees are breaking in New Orleans.  Parts of the city are now covered by up to 20 feet of water.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 30, 2005)

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050830/2005-08-30T203001Z_01_HO481242_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-WEATHER-KATRINA-DC.html


> "*The devastation is greater than our worst fears*," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco told a news conference. "It's totally overwhelming."
> An overnight breach in New Orleans' protective levee system allowed water from Lake Pontchartrain to flood most of the city.





> In the Mississippi coastal city of Biloxi, hundreds may have been killed after being trapped in their homes when *a 30-foot (9 meter) storm surge came ashore*, a city spokesman said. Cadaver dogs were being brought in to help find the dead.





> New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin reported *bodies floating in the city's floodwaters.*





> Most of the deaths appear to have been caused by *the storm surge, which swept as far as a mile inland* in parts of Mississippi.





> In New Orleans, "*We probably have 80 percent of our city under water*; with some sections of our city the *water is as deep as 20 feet*," Nagin told television station WWL. "*Both airports are under water*."





> *The local hospital appealed for more doctors and nurses to treat the wounded.* Hancock County emergency workers went from house to house and put black paint on those where people died, CNN said. *They planned to return later to pick up the bodies but did not have enough refrigerated trucks*.





> *"It was like our tsunami,"* Creel said.





> *Special Forces boat crews were dispatched* to conduct search and rescue operations in flooded communities.


Perhaps the news report about Katrina not doing as much damage as expected was a bit premature...


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 30, 2005)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/30/MTFH92570_2005-08-30_18-04-50_SCH065073.html


> *The downtown hospital was surrounded by 6 feet of water* and considering evacuating its 1,000 patients





> By Tuesday, however, the full impact was clear as *the water rose and overwhelmed pumps*, part of an elaborate system of walls, canals and other devices built to protect the city from just such a disaster.
> 
> 
> Fears grew about pollution, with the *water believed to be carrying sewage, spilled fuel and other pollutants* from residential and commercial districts inundated in the flood.
> ...


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 30, 2005)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050830/us_nm/utilities_katrina_outages_dc


> NEW YORK (Reuters) - More than 2.7 million electricity customers were still without power on Tuesday after Hurricane Katrina pummeled the U.S. Gulf Coast and moved into the Tennessee Valley.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050830/D8CAB5KO1.html


> Nevertheless, it was clear the death toll would rise sharply, with one survivor after another telling of friends and loved ones who floated off or disappeared as the floodwaters rose around them.
> "I talked with paramedics that are on the scene and the devastation is so great that they won't quit counting (bodies) for a while," said Mark Williams, operations supervisor for American Medicial Response, which operated ambulances along the Mississippi coast.





> The rising water forced one New Orleans hospital to move patients to the Superdome





> Canal Street was literally a canal. Water lapped at the edge of the French Quarter. Clumps of red ants floated in the gasoline-fouled waters downtown.





> At the Superdome, someone died after plunging from an upper level of the stadium, Ebbert said. He said the person probably jumped.





> "The water got higher and higher," she said, breaking into tears. "It pushed all the doors open and we swam out. We grabbed a lady and pulled her out the window and then we swam with the current. It was terrifying. You should have seen the cars floating around us. We had to push them away when we were trying to swim."





> Mike Spencer of Gulfport made the mistake of trying to ride out the storm in his house. He told NBC that he used his grandson's little surfboard to make his way around the house as the water rose around him. Finally, he said, "as the house just filled up with water, it forced me into the attic, and then I ended up kicking out the wall and climbing up to a tree because the houses around me were just disappearing." He said he wrapped himself around a tree branch and waited four or five hours.


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## KenpoEMT (Aug 30, 2005)

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/

Apparently law enforcement officials and firefighters are joining in the looting.

...big-screen TVs for everyone.


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## arnisador (Aug 30, 2005)

Looting, sadly, is to be expected...but hopefully not by LEOs.


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## Kane (Sep 1, 2005)

It is pretty scary how I was in New Orleans and only left ONE day before Katrina striked! Man am I lucky, I hope others get out safelly.

 Anyone here in MT stuck in the floods of New Orleans?


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## MisterMike (Sep 1, 2005)

Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?


Plenty .... 
Chavez is sending aid and oil. 
Canada is has posted aid
Diamler Chryslef - A German company is in. 

There will be more coming. 

What's it been now ... 48 hours since we got our first glimpse of the extent of the situation ... 60 hours ... maybe 72 hours... 

MisterMike ... you aren't getting overly cynical, are you? I mean, how long was it before the President of the United States spoke about the Tsunami last December? Laura Ingraham was railing about how this is being 'politicized', you aren't in her camp, are you? 

And don't worry, I'm sure the most generous people on the planet will be sure to kick in their contribution as well. That being the People of Denmark, don't you know. The United States is number 12 on the list of the 21 richest countries when it comes to charitable giving. 

So, relax, and put an extra buck in the collection basket this weekend. eh?


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## MisterMike (Sep 1, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Plenty ....
> Chavez is sending aid and oil.
> Canada is has posted aid
> Diamler Chryslef - A German company is in.
> ...


Plenty? Bah. They don't even have water down there - well, not drinkable water. (tee-hee)

Cynical and political? I didn't chime in with events from 9 months ago or talk radio quotes. That was some other Michael.

But yes, I'd love to go camping with Laura anytime.

I think it was an honest question. Quick, to the point, not a lot of emotion - I mean, I AM a man.

In case you're wondering how I really feel - well - those people shoulda high tailed it outta there days before it hit so I think a lot of them are stupid and as for repairing it, if it were up to me, they should leave it to the fishes. Find some other place to toss beads on underage drunk teens.


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

One




> PARIS, Sept. 1 (Xinhuanet) -- French Foreign Ministry announced Thursday that France is to send aid and troops to US Gulf coast area hit by Hurricane Katrina, one of the most devastating storms in the country's history.
> 
> 
> "Our operational humanitarian aid group is going to meet to study the civilian and military means that France could make available from French regions and the French West Indies," said French Foreign Ministry's spokesman, Denis Simmoneau.
> ...


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

Two




> While US emergency teams are working around the clock in the mostly submerged city of New Orleans, the German government, although highly critical of US environmental policies, is offering its help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

Three - I especially like this one ... although, there is no monetary commitment here




> Iran expresses grief at deaths of American people by Hurricane Katrina disaster
> 
> Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid-Reza Asefi on Tuesday expressed grief at deaths of people in the United States caused by Hurricane Katrina.
> He said that Iranian nation and government sympathize with American people especially the bereaved families of the natural disaster.
> ...


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

Four




> European countries were on Thursday preparing to release emergency stockpiles of petrol as the US confirmed that some refineries hit by Hurricane Katrina would remain shut for several months.
> //
> Earlier US officials had estimated the closures at only one to two weeks.
> 
> ...


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## michaeledward (Sep 1, 2005)

And then there is this ... it is certianly political



> Earlier:
> (At) Oxford, England, for two years as a Rhodes Scholar, (*David) Vitter* said he excitedly kept up with what President Reagan was accomplishing back home with an agenda for shrinking government through tax cuts and nondefense budget reductions. At the same time, *Vitter* said he saw firsthand the economic problems England was enduring because of its "socialist policies" and emphasis on big government.
> ​Yesterday:
> 
> ...


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## MA-Caver (Sep 2, 2005)

Before and after photos are now available for viewing here. 
Like the Tsunami the devestation is awesomely scary. The coastline will definitely be affected...


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## bignick (Sep 2, 2005)

Also, if you've never used the program Google Earth, you can try it here, http://earth.google.com

for photos of the damage


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## shesulsa (Sep 2, 2005)

I am still just stunned when I view the footage and pictures.

 Interesting, isn't it, that no matter how much we think we tame nature she always comes back to kick our butts so royally?


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## michaeledward (Sep 3, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?


Australia on Friday said it would donate A$10 million (US$7.7 million) immediately to the American Red Cross 

Japan donated $200,000 to the Red Cross and would also provide up to $300,000 in aid supplies such as tents and power generators

The International Energy Agency "has agreed to make 60 million barrels of product available

Sri Lankan President Chandrika Kumaratunga said she and her fellow citizens felt solidarity with those affected. "Having experienced the fury of nature ourselves during the December 26 tsunami, the people of Sri Lanka and I fully empathize with you at this hour of national grief," she said in a message to the U.S. And while the small island nation is still recovering from the tsunami disaster, it also pledged $25,000 to the American Red Cross


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## Cryozombie (Sep 3, 2005)

Can I ask an obviously stupid question?

All these celebrities, heads of industry etc... 

where are they?  Where are these people with the money????

I mean, gosh, you only got paid 8.5 million from your last movie?  Couldnt possibly give say... 6 of that?  Cuz I know its such a hardship to live on 2 mill till your next picture.

Ya got a billion in the bank, but its too much to give 100 mil in aid?

The wealthy make me sick.


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## shesulsa (Sep 3, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> All these celebrities, heads of industry etc...
> 
> where are they?  Where are these people with the money????


 I'm fairly liberal and I gotta say I agree with this.  It's interesting how they'll bash people for NOT helping but ... where are they right now?  Curing poverty in Africa, no doubt - which is still a worthy, emergent cause ... but we have problems ON OUR OWN SHORES.

 Where are they?


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 3, 2005)

I've seen several celebs gathering to put on benefits.

Morgan Freeman plans Katrina relief auction
In Response to Hurricane Katrina Disaster, Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS Donates $100,000 to Red Cross
Clapton, Connick on King 'help' show

 I saw several country music stars were in Ontario doing one such benefit.
 Some more info: Katrina felt across entertainment world
*Networks unite for Katrina telethon*


 So, some are doing stuff. Some are directly effected.


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## Cryozombie (Sep 3, 2005)

Bob Hubbard said:
			
		

> I've seen several celebs gathering to put on benefits.
> 
> Morgan Freeman plans Katrina relief auction
> In Response to Hurricane Katrina Disaster, Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS Donates $100,000 to Red Cross
> ...


Benefits my ***.  Raising money for my ***.

Many of these people are inordanatly wealthy and _could_ donate MILLIONS of dollars.  Where are they?

I could live well for life on what some of these people make for one job...  Hell, I play the lottery...  It was 111 million this week... you can bet your bippy that if I won 111 million that like 100 Mill would go to the relief effort... what the hell would *I* ever need that much money for?


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## Bob Hubbard (Sep 3, 2005)

> The Dave Matthews Band will perform a September 12 concert at Red Rocks Amphitheatre near Denver, part of a multi-date stand at that arena, with all profits to go to charities supporting victims of Hurricane Katrina.





> Sean "Diddy" Combs and Jay-Z have pledged $1 million to the American Red Cross.





> Movie star Nicolas Cage and Canadian singer Celine Dion each donated $1 million to the American Red Cross for relief efforts, and teen pop sensation Hilary Duff donated $250,000 to hurricane-related charities.





> The Recording Academy, which administers the Grammy Awards, has established the MusiCares Hurricane Relief Fund, and pledged an initial donation of $1 million "for music people affected by Hurricane Katrina." The money will be used to provide assistance with basic living expenses (shelter, food, utilities, transportation), medical expenses, clothing; instrument and recording equipment replacement and more.



I'm sure there will be more as we go.  I'm also sure there will be quite a few who send their "best wishes". I'll most likely be boycotting those folks myself.


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## KenpoEMT (Sep 3, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I feel humbled by this whole thing. Minnesota is a long way from New Orleans, but we share a river. I'm looking at my options to see what I can do to help with the aftermath. From farther away, removed from the danger, its easier to think about things like oceanography, hydrology, and global warming. Yet, one fact remains.
> 
> Life is going to change irrevocably for millions of people.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## arnisador (Sep 3, 2005)

Technopunk said:
			
		

> Many of these people are inordanatly wealthy and _could_ donate MILLIONS of dollars.  Where are they?


 What makes you think they haven't donated money already?


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## Cryozombie (Sep 3, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> What makes you think they haven't donated money already?


Well, true, they may have, but typically the media jumps on that and you hear about it.


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## arnisador (Sep 3, 2005)

Yes, that's often so. But I'm sure some are giving money but don't want to find out that Dustin Hoffman gave more than they did so they're keeping it quiet.


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## michaeledward (Sep 4, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid/index.html


*The oil-rich nation of Qatar has offered the United States $100 million to assist in the humanitarian crisis triggered by Hurricane Katrina.*
The state-run Qatar News Agency said Saturday that Qatar's emir, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, decided to contribute that amount for relief "and humanitarian supplies for the victims of this disaster."

The U.S. government has received offers of support from dozens of nations across the globe. 

As of Friday, *the White House had not accepted any offers*, but Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the State Department was "working very closely with the Department of Homeland Security to match up what is available with what is needed."


* * * * * * * * *  * * * * * * *
The State Department said offers of help had been received from more than 50 countries, including:

Australia, Austria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Belgium, Canada, China, Columbia, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Germany, Guatemala, Greece, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, South Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, United Kingdom, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.


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## arnisador (Sep 4, 2005)

It's nice to see such offers made, after all we do for other countries.

Admittedly, pride makes me reluctant to accept!


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## michaeledward (Sep 5, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?





			
				arnisador said:
			
		

> It's nice to see such offers made, after all we do for other countries.
> 
> Admittedly, pride makes me reluctant to accept!


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html
"The U.S. government has received offers of aid from dozens of nations across the globe in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the State Department said.

*Neither the White House nor the State Department has said whether these offers have been accepted.* "


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## michaeledward (Sep 5, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Has there been any word from our international friends on sending any aid?


This from CNN.



> *HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Cuban President Fidel Castro told more than 1,500 doctors Sunday night that American officials had made "absolutely no response" to his offer to send them to the U.S. Gulf Coast to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.*
> 
> Castro, a longtime adversary of the United States, initially offered to send 1,100 doctors and at least 26 tons of supplies and equipment, but the Communist leader announced Sunday during a televised speech that he had increased the number of physicians to 1,586. Each doctor would carry about 27 pounds of medicine.
> 
> ...


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## MisterMike (Sep 5, 2005)

michaeledward said:
			
		

> http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html
> "The U.S. government has received offers of aid from dozens of nations across the globe in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the State Department said.
> 
> *Neither the White House nor the State Department has said whether these offers have been accepted.* "


Always good to receive the gesture. Some of the offers are very surprising. Maybe there's hope.


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