# Vitamins C & E Don't Prevent Heart Disease



## MA-Caver (Nov 9, 2008)

> *Studies: Vitamin pills don't prevent heart disease
> *
> 
> MARILYNN MARCHIONE, AP Medical Writer        Marilynn Marchione, Ap Medical Writer               Sun Nov 9, 1:17 pm ET
> ...


Well if that isn't a big disappointment I don't know what is. All this time they've been saying oh this and that vitamin is good for you and we need this and that vitamin for this and that... now they're finding out that it doesn't? Hmmm... something fishy here. 
What do you think?


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## hpulley (Nov 9, 2008)

I must say I'm not surprised.  There just aren't magic bullets for this stuff, no matter how much vitamin or drug makers want this to be true.  Exercise (martial arts are good!), a balanced diet, control of stress (martial arts are good for that), etc. are still good advice.


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Nov 9, 2008)

I have heard of Vitamin increasing the risk.

I don't think people get enough Vitamin E in there natural diet.

Vitamin C is Water soluble so somewhat hard to get toxic effect unless of course...

There are more potent means of Preventing Heart disease and Vitamin C and E are useful as part of overall health.


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## stickarts (Nov 9, 2008)

Next year they will come out with another study saying something different.  There are so many studies and so many variables. I still think taking moderate doses of supplements are good insurance to make sure we are getting everything we need.


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## Phoenix44 (Nov 10, 2008)

> The study was funded by the National Institutes of Health and several vitamin makers. Results were so clear that they would be unlikely to change if the study were done in women, minorities, or with different formulations of the vitamins, Howard said.


 
I just love it when they say this.  They're usually just so wrong.


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## girlbug2 (Nov 10, 2008)

Next month there will be another vitamin du jour.

The biggest predictor for heart disease still remains waist circumference -- anything above 35 inches.


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## fireman00 (Nov 11, 2008)

coffee's no good for you, coffee will kill you, coffee will shrink your breasts, coffee can save you life, coffee is good for you.  

As long as you don't O/D with megadosing of vitamins I seriously doubt that anyone will experience health issues related to taking a One A Day, a 500mg Vitamin C during flu/ cold season or E for joints/ skin.


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## Lynne (Nov 12, 2008)

I know that was only a small study (there are studies and then there are studies) but I wouldn't be surprised if supplements aren't actually harmful.  They aren't foods.

The longest living people on earth such as The Hunzas, the Okinawans, the people of the Republic of Georgia, the Symiots, etc., do not take supplements.  They eat whole unprocessed foods.  That means they don't eat nonfat dairy.  Nonfat dairy is a bogus food.  You can't absorb much of the calcium or protein with the saturated fat.  You won't find any long-lived people eating processed foods like nonfat dairy.

The answer to longevity and health seems to be eat mostly fruits and veggies, good fats via fish and/or nuts, legumes, some grains, yogurt and possibly butter.  It is expected that people will eat some beef and poultry, especially in the winter months.  The other factors are daily exercise, being active, stress control, and getting enough sleep.  Another factor is keeping body weight at the low end.

Preventing osteoporosis has nothing to do with calcium intake.  Bones are like muscle.  Bones are kept intact and grow from exercise that stresses them.


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## Lynne (Nov 12, 2008)

Regarding the above, some sources say that fat does not need to be consumed at the same time that nonfat dairy is consumed to absorb calcium.

This also tells you that if you follow a low-fat diet, you may not be absorbing calcium.


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## Marginal (Jan 1, 2009)

Lynne said:


> I know that was only a small study (there are studies and then there are studies) but I wouldn't be surprised if supplements aren't actually harmful.  They aren't foods.


That doesn't mean anything. At worst, the extra minerals (the body does use these foodless minerals) are ejected unused. Megadosing is stupid, but deciding mineral supplements are harmful because they aren't a porkchop makes just as much sense as giving yourself a heart murmur because you've been taking too much vitamin C.


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## Kacey (Jan 1, 2009)

Lynne said:


> I know that was only a small study (there are studies and then there are studies) but I wouldn't be surprised if supplements aren't actually harmful.  They aren't foods.





Marginal said:


> That doesn't mean anything. At worst, the extra minerals (the body does use these foodless minerals) are ejected unused. Megadosing is stupid, but deciding mineral supplements are harmful because they aren't a porkchop makes just as much sense as giving yourself a heart murmur because you've been taking too much vitamin C.



I agree with Marginal.  If you ingest more of a particular substance than your body can use and/or store, it is excreted like anything else.  Yes, there are substances that can't be excreted, and megadosing can be dangerous - but most people _don't_ eat a balanced diet, and taking supplements have been proven to prevent deficiency diseases.  That's why, for example, Vitamin D was added to milk.  Rickets is a nasty disease.  Yes, your body can make Vitamin D from sunlight... but only if you're not wearing sunscreen.  More below.



Lynne said:


> The longest living people on earth such as The Hunzas, the Okinawans, the people of the Republic of Georgia, the Symiots, etc., do not take supplements.  They eat whole unprocessed foods.  That means they don't eat nonfat dairy.  Nonfat dairy is a bogus food.  You can't absorb much of the calcium or protein with the saturated fat.  You won't find any long-lived people eating processed foods like nonfat dairy.



I agree that whole unprocessed foods often have higher nutritional values than their processed counterparts - however, I've never heard that nonfat dairy was, in itself, a problem.  Processing often reduces the nutritional content of foods, as does long-term storage (which is, after all, what the processing was originally intended for); processing also tends to reduce the amount of fiber in foods, which, again, reduces the overall benefits of certain foods.  Not all forms of processing do this - drying, for example, especially of fruits and vegetables - preserves the nutritional value as well as the fiber - but many of the more technological forms of processing, especially chemicals methods, do reduce the nutritional value of foods.  So does cooking, in some cases, as cooking can cause chemical changes in foods - sometimes beneficial, sometimes not.

Also, you say that "You can't absorb much of the calcium or protein with the saturated fat" - either there's a typo here and "with" should be "without" or you've contradicted yourself; as written, you've said that saturated fat, which is not present in nonfat dairy, _prevents_ calcium absorption.

Now, dairy itself can be a problem, yes - but not _nonfat_ dairy - there are quite a few populations where eating dairy was uncommon or unheard of, which is why so many people are lactose intolerant.  Humans are the only animal on the planet that regularly ingest milk past weaning.



Lynne said:


> The answer to longevity and health seems to be eat mostly fruits and veggies, good fats via fish and/or nuts, legumes, some grains, yogurt and possibly butter.  It is expected that people will eat some beef and poultry, especially in the winter months.  The other factors are daily exercise, being active, stress control, and getting enough sleep.  Another factor is keeping body weight at the low end.



Yes and no.  I agree that more fruits and vegetables, legumes, and lower-fat protein are generally good, as are exercise, stress control and sleep - but it's as dangerous to be underweight as overweight, especially as people who are underweight are at greater risk for dietary deficiencies - which brings us back to the potential benefits of dietary supplements.



Lynne said:


> Preventing osteoporosis has nothing to do with calcium intake.  Bones are like muscle.  Bones are kept intact and grow from exercise that stresses them.



I agree that bones are kept intact and strengthen (not grow) from exercises that stresses them - but if you don't have enough calcium, phosphorous, and other building blocks of bone tissue in your system, they won't strengthen, because there will be nothing for you body to use for that purpose.


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## arnisador (Jan 1, 2009)

Meanwhile...

*Nuts Helpful to Heart Health*



> Spanish researchers have found that walnuts, hazelnuts, and almonds were all helpful in reducing belly fat and improving cholesterol and blood pressure.
> 
> 
> The study, which will appear Monday in the Archives of Internal Medicine, also revealed that nuts combined with a Mediterranean diet rich in fruit, vegetables, and fish, was more effective than a low fat diet.


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## Carol (Jan 2, 2009)

The original story appears to be gone from Yahoo but here is a link to a similar story from the LA times (via the Monterey (CA) Herald)

http://www.montereyherald.com/health/ci_11349759

In this article is perhaps a good explanation as to why there is conflicting news about vitamins.



> Researchers have identified several reasons why vitamins don't lend themselves to randomized controlled trials. Chief among them is that there is no true placebo group when it comes to vitamins and minerals because everyone gets some in their diet.
> 
> 
> "For drugs, someone either has (the impotence drug) Cialis in their system or he doesn't have Cialis," said Paul Coates, director of the National Institutes of Health Office of Dietary Supplements in Bethesda, Md. With vitamins, on the other hand, "there's a baseline exposure that needs to be taken into account. It makes the challenge of seeing an improvement more difficult."


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