# Bando?



## RMACKD (Nov 28, 2004)

Has anyone trained in this style? From the video clips on www.thaing.net it looks like muay thai with headbutts and throws standing up and on the ground it has subs, the guard, striking and other things. This style seems to be similar to lerd rit and muay boran.


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## hardheadjarhead (Nov 28, 2004)

I don't have a sound card on this computer, so I can't tell what is happening on the techniques page other than what I can see.

Some of the ground stuff looks like it was taken from Sambo or Shoot.  I hope they're not passing this stuff off as Burmese.  I'll assume they're open to other systems and had instructors in to share.

Good site, though.  Excellent video footage.


Regards,


Steve


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## GAB (Nov 28, 2004)

RMACKD,

Good site. I was looking into the art (history) and found it to be very 
interesting (history) I did not get to this region.

Your post is still young, I hope you get some good feedback, I would like to know more about it myself.

Regards, Gary


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## RMACKD (Nov 28, 2004)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> I don't have a sound card on this computer, so I can't tell what is happening on the techniques page other than what I can see.
> 
> Some of the ground stuff looks like it was taken from Sambo or Shoot. I hope they're not passing this stuff off as Burmese. I'll assume they're open to other systems and had instructors in to share.
> 
> ...


 The Burmese arts have many influences and I believe one of them is old style kosen judo which might be were they got the groundwork. They do claim that this is burmese which I believe it is because of that influence and because sub grappling has been around in burma for a while and they were doing this stuff before the UFC craze.


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## OULobo (Nov 28, 2004)

Thaing.net is Phil Dunlap's Burmese arts. I would say the most common style of Bando (taught by Dan Inosanto, Dog Brothers, ect.) is from Dr. M. Gyi, and is based in the American Bando Association. I have trained in the ABA and with Dr. Gyi personally, but have never had the opportunity to train with Mr. Dunlap, though I'm sure his art is both effective and genuine. I can give you more on the ABA style of Bando if you like, also search the site for more info, as there have been a few threads on this already.


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## RMACKD (Nov 29, 2004)

I would like to know a but more about this Mr. Gyi and his organazation. Many people claims he has a false military record and Dunlap does not seem to like him for that. So how did you feel about the bando taught there? Did it seem effective?


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## RMACKD (Nov 29, 2004)

It seems that he did lie about his military record http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies117.htm


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## OULobo (Nov 29, 2004)

Well, I have made the comment before and I will say it again. The two major "phony" vet sites are in my opinion overzealous in their search for phonies and less than fair in their investigations. They assume much and only go half way in checking facts and research. Frankly, I don't think Doc has ever felt the need to verify anything, as he has nothing to prove. If many don't believe his stories, that is probably fine by him. There are quite a few misinterpretations and assumptions that the "phonies" sites have made and some just false facts. As to Doc's abilities and training, I would say just ask anyone who has trained with him or look at the many fighters he has stabled. If you are looking for anything specific about the art, go ahead and ask. If you are seeking debate on Doc's military experiences or background, then feel free to PM me.


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## RMACKD (Nov 30, 2004)

I have recently published a book and burmese boxing and that should give me some info because burmese boxing is part of bando and is based on the boar style, I believe. The fighters in the lethwei section look a bit sloppy. Anyone have a good idea why? I heard it was because in Burma most fighters are semi-pro. Anyways i will write a mini review of the book when I get it.


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## OULobo (Nov 30, 2004)

RMACKD said:
			
		

> I have recently published a book and burmese boxing and that should give me some info because burmese boxing is part of bando and is based on the boar style, I believe. The fighters in the lethwei section look a bit sloppy. Anyone have a good idea why? I heard it was because in Burma most fighters are semi-pro. Anyways i will write a mini review of the book when I get it.



My guess would be because I don't think that Lethwei ever got refined into what Muay Thai is. It is birthed from bar matches and village tourneys. It was even illegal under the current military junta until the generals got a taste for watching. I think now it is "unofficially" legal. I wouldn't really say that Lethwei came from the Boar as much as it resembles the Boar system.


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## blackdiamondcobra (Dec 1, 2004)

Bando is not always synonymous with Lethwae. Some Bando people have nothing to do with Lethwae and vice versa in Myanmar.   

Lethwae is bare knuckle fighting whereas Muay Thai evolved out of the bare knuckle base by embracing western methodology(ring, judges, gloves, referee, point scoring,etc)into a modern ring art.  The Burmese remained closed off or resistent to Western influence.  In the older methodology of bare knuckle, alot of we view today as part of the match changes, there are no judges and a person must win by KO, stoppage(possibly by cuts or bone break), or the fight is deemed a draw and in each case you are paid accordingly.  Even though the opponent is vulnerable until his back hits the ground alot of time in a fast volley, he might be tagged with a hard shot and fearing a knockout or followup blow will go down on his back.  The bouts for the major belts or the high money have more a western flair now with the referee intervening a bit more.  But some fights are still fought in the sand or dirt with the endless last round.  There are not very many what we would call modern training camps in Myanmar as one would get used to in Thailand where they blanket almost every region.  Some are just someone's backyard with a minimal of equipment if any at all. Some embrace more modern training methods and equipment, others don't and some a mix of the two.

Fights are also held freely throughout the country but monitored.   The smaller bouts in the dirt are carried on in the cultural pockets free from any restraints.

Lerd Rit is a form of military muay thai influenced by the older combative component of krabi krabong and bare knuckle distilled into a fast moving self defense system.  Its creator had in depth knowledge of the combative aspects and principles that prevailed through the thai martial arts unifying them into a system for the military. Many people are greatly misinformed about this system.  The older forms of pure Muay would bear some resemblance to lethwae with muay boran now existing for the most part as a form of physical education codified by the government physical education department.

Dr. Gyi is an exemplary martial arts teacher and educator.  Phil Dunlap likewise is an excellent teacher.  Both men are doing their best to elevate the Burmese Arts.  I don't think anyone would be disappointed with the teaching or ability of either man.  Without Dr. Gyi's help I would not have gotten through half the work that I did so far and continue to do.  His amazing faculty for organization and analyzation is remarkable and he is a true scholar.  

As far as kosen judo being an influence, I didnt personally find that to be the case.  Judo is taught mostly for international competition and I visited with alot of the competitors in the sports training centers in Yangon.   If you are talking about the older wrestling forms in Burma as well as the neighboring countries like Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and even one time Thailand, you are looking at the influence of the older wrestling systems of India some of which were quite brutal and Mongolia among other countries with other various indigenous innovations added.  when in India, I found some of the very old masters who showed me texts of the older systems which involved fish hooking, gouges, etc which seem to mirror the older ways of grappling in the region.  In Burma and neighboring countries, alot of the wrestling was held during village festivals and thats how its now carried on for the most part.  

I have several DVDs left of an exhibition event in the north of burma which I sold to my vanishing flame list members to support the next trip into Myanmar in January.  If anyone wants to buy any remaining copies, they can email me at: blackdiamondcobra@yahoo.com. I recorded many critical hours of footage through the various regions for my book research and hopefully later on will release them if warranted.


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## RMACKD (Dec 14, 2004)

I got the book on Burmese boxing and guess who is the author of it? None other than cro crops trainer Zoran Rebec who has trained in Burmese Boxing quite a lot. The book seemed a lot like muay thai with headbutts and judo throws added on.


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## blackdiamondcobra (Dec 14, 2004)

I thought the Zoran Rebac book was horribly written and contained alot of badly translated terms and material. I brought the book and his vid along with me on the last trip through Burma to get the opinions of the top trainers and fighters which amounted to much of the same criticism. He covered one aspect of it as best as he could. There are still variable training methods: some new, some a mix and some old as in fighting in the dirt with the unlimited last rounds and the training methods that go with that.  Bottom line: Fighting is fighting in the rawest terms and when streamlined down things begin to look the same.  Lethwae remains bare knuckle and the rules are alot looser than muay thai which is a gloved ring sport based on a western modality.  You can do alot more things from throws to full attacks until the person is on his back, standing locks if you want.Sometimes the traditional rules are in place, sometimes more modern as in the bigger yangon and mandalay fights.


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