# Pai Lum



## SouthPaw (Apr 17, 2011)

"Pai Lum" is White Dragon Fist style kung fu. I did ask the instructor about it and he said "Pai Lum" actually means "White Forest." The reason for it he said, may be because so many years passed where the martial arts had to be practiced in secrecy. 

This style incorporates many of the animal styles (in different facets) because the Dragon was one who understood his opponent. From what little I've seen this is very true (hawk stance form with tiger claw movement).

The instructor is the adopted grandson of the senior student of Daniel K. Pai


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## oaktree (Apr 17, 2011)

I was looking at the site:
http://www.pailum.com/

&#30333;&#63991;&#40845;
The Hanzi used for Bai/Pai is &#30333; Li is &#63991; and Lung is &#40845;


The system is called Pai Lum   &#30333;&#26519;. Which means White forest. I think the entire system is called Pai Li Lung's Pai Lum &#30333;&#63991;&#40845; &#30333;&#26519;


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## ggg214 (Apr 17, 2011)

never heard it&#12290;


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## clfsean (Apr 18, 2011)

SouthPaw said:


> "Pai Lum" is White Dragon Fist style kung fu. I did ask the instructor about it and he said "Pai Lum" actually means "White Forest." The reason for it he said, may be because so many years passed where the martial arts had to be practiced in secrecy.



Sorry... marketing.



SouthPaw said:


> This style incorporates many of the animal styles (in different facets) because the Dragon was one who understood his opponent. From what little I've seen this is very true (hawk stance form with tiger claw movement).



More marketing & interpretation on the characteristics of animal based system.


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## SouthPaw (Apr 18, 2011)

Ehh I doubt that, only because he seemed surprised that it was called White Dragon even though it says on his site that that's what its called. Like we had to point out that...the web site said so, because he went on about the word "Lum" meaning Forest and the word for Dragon was actually "Long." (or what sounded like long). So when we noted that it was so on the site he was kind of talking out loud like that, yes he knew it was White Dragon but the word was wrong, and maybe that was why.


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## SouthPaw (Apr 18, 2011)

clfsean said:


> More marketing & interpretation on the characteristics of animal based system.




I don't understand. If he teaches animal based kung fu is it wrong to market that he teaches animal based kung fu or are you implying that it's just marketing. Actually, I'm not sure what you're implying. I don't understand


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## clfsean (Apr 19, 2011)

SouthPaw said:


> I don't understand. If he teaches animal based kung fu is it wrong to market that he teaches animal based kung fu or are you implying that it's just marketing. Actually, I'm not sure what you're implying. I don't understand



In Chinese martial arts, animalistic/mimetic styles use the animals (IME) as a foundation for use and theory of how to use the foundation skills.  

I suggest a hearty session on Youtube checking out some of these search phrases... 


Hung Ga
Bak Hok
Lung Ying
Ying Jow
Tang Lang
These will provide you with a good variety of mimetic boxing. These are in no particular order.

This quote is all about marketing IMO.



SouthPaw said:


> "Pai Lum" is White Dragon Fist style kung fu. I did ask the instructor  about it and he said "Pai Lum" actually means "White Forest." The reason  for it he said, may be because so many years passed where the martial  arts had to be practiced in secrecy.



Even during the Qing dynasty when martial arts were publicly outlawed, there were still practitioners teaching openly and the government (that outlawed it) was aware of it. To be certain, some people decided to keep thing within family groups. That still goes on now. 

The only time true secrecy has been a necessity was during the Cultural Revolution in the PRC. Then it was deadly dangerous to be caught practicing MA in the open. However, even that has changed. 

This quote again is all about marketing & a misinterpretation (IMO) of the characteristics used to describe Chinese dragons & applied to MA.



SouthPaw said:


> This style incorporates many of the animal styles (in different facets)  because the Dragon was one who understood his opponent. From what little  I've seen this is very true (hawk stance form with tiger claw  movement).



The dragon was characterized as the wisest creature of creation & was made up of 9 different creatures of creation. The Chinese have referred to themselves as Descendants of the Dragon. The Emperor's were sometimes referred to as Dragons. The Imperial Dragon had 5 toes & was the only one to have 5. 

What's this have to to with MA? Not much... but it's great for marketing especially when there wasn't a lot of information about Chinese culture available in the 50's,60's,70's & even into the 80's. Now though, information is just a click away if somebody is willing to look.

Now... am I saying what you learn won't help you or isn't effective?? Nope. Not saying that.  I am saying do a little research first before buying the official party line. 

Caveat Emptor.


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## oaktree (Apr 19, 2011)

> Ehh I doubt that, only because he seemed surprised that it was called White Dragon even though it says on his site that that's what its called


 
The reason may be because he meaning Pai Li Lung put his name on the site in Hanzi so people thought the system was called White dragon. Also Wikipedia put Pai Lum as Bai long(Lung is the Cantonese spelling for Long) in Mandarin Pin yin. Pai to Bai is white thats fine but Lum to Long different. Lum means forest and it is read as Lin in Mandarin and Lum in Cantonese. 



> So when we noted that it was so on the site he was kind of talking out loud like that, yes he knew it was White Dragon but the word was wrong, and maybe that was why.


 
Well he does explain it on the site. It might make things clearer if he put the Hanzi for things.

I admit I am not very versed in Cantonese even though the girl I am with is Cantonese haha.


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## clfsean (Apr 19, 2011)

oaktree said:


> The reason may be because he meaning Pai Li Lung put his name on the site in Hanzi so people thought the system was called White dragon. Also Wikipedia put Pai Lum as Bai long(Lung is the Cantonese spelling for Long) in Mandarin Pin yin. Pai to Bai is white thats fine but Lum to Long different. Lum means forest and it is read as Lin in Mandarin and Lum in Cantonese.



Bak Lung = White Dragon (C)
Bai Long = White Dragon (M)

Bak Lum = White Forest (C)
Bai Lin = White Forest (M)



oaktree said:


> I admit I am not very versed in Cantonese even though the girl I am with is Cantonese haha.



Good man!!!


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## ilhe4e12345 (Apr 19, 2011)

i trained Pai Lum for a year (got to yellow rank and was about to go for orange which is the 3rd belt in the rank before i stopped taking lessons due to a back injury) and i just dont really enjoy it....i tried i really did i was waiting for it to get good but it just seemed....boring..


i know this isnt the place for it and i dont want anybody to think i would insult you if you do take it or like it but....i just couldnt get into it....it just seems like its an entire martial art around hitting or beating your enemy with great force.....which most martial arts is but even the advanced forms that i watched the brown and black belts doing didnt look that impressive compared to something like Shaolin 5 Animal or 7 Star Mantis (which im currently taking)

Do i think its a none affective art? DEF not..i know it works and i know you can be very skillful in it and i would never think i was better just becuase i didnt like it....all im saying is i couldnt get into the art....:/ sorry

As for the translation i never heard my old instructor say anything about White Forest when he talked about Pai Lum but then again i wasnt there long enough to learn much more then second rank....but happy training if its something you love


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## oaktree (Apr 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Bak Lung = White Dragon (C)
> Bai Long = White Dragon (M)
> 
> Bak Lum = White Forest (C)
> ...


 
Here I thought Pai was the Cantonese word for Bai I guess I should have known it must have been the Wade gile spelling. I heard that Cantonese Pin yin is more of a Hong Kong type of thing than used on the main land in China.

I don't know I heard Harbin girls are very cute:cheers:
 Shhh...I never said that :whip:


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## SouthPaw (Apr 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Now... am I saying what you learn won't help you or isn't effective?? Nope. Not saying that.  I am saying do a little research first before buying the official party line.
> 
> Caveat Emptor.



Thank you for the resources; I will most definetly do the research. I do not want a misunderstanding though--- I posted relaying information to get more information on this art (or this particular style) as I've never heard of it.  Which is exactly what I got . 

Thank you for your very informative answer, you've given me a lot to look at.


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## SouthPaw (Apr 19, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> i trained Pai Lum for a year (got to yellow rank and was about to go for orange which is the 3rd belt in the rank before i stopped taking lessons due to a back injury) and i just dont really enjoy it....i tried i really did i was waiting for it to get good but it just seemed....boring..
> 
> 
> i know this isnt the place for it and i dont want anybody to think i would insult you if you do take it or like it but....i just couldnt get into it....it just seems like its an entire martial art around hitting or beating your enemy with great force.....which most martial arts is but even the advanced forms that i watched the brown and black belts doing didnt look that impressive compared to something like Shaolin 5 Animal or 7 Star Mantis (which im currently taking)
> ...



This place is the only place in my area teaching kung fu (structured; in its own building, that is..). And I won't be practicing this art. My boyfriend is though, and it's more to rebuild his basics--his art is Jeet, and there's (IMO) nothing in PA for continuing that. So I think it will be good for him.

I really like what I have seen so far, but I acknowledge too I am a fresh slate-- this is the first kung fu class I've been exposed to. Ever. I intend to look at many different schools in my travels; I will make a point to look at Mantis as you're the second person who seems to have gotten great benefit from it over another.


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## ilhe4e12345 (Apr 19, 2011)

SouthPaw said:


> This place is the only place in my area teaching kung fu (structured; in its own building, that is..). And I won't be practicing this art. My boyfriend is though, and it's more to rebuild his basics--his art is Jeet, and there's (IMO) nothing in PA for continuing that. So I think it will be good for him.
> 
> I really like what I have seen so far, but I acknowledge too I am a fresh slate-- this is the first kung fu class I've been exposed to. Ever. I intend to look at many different schools in my travels; I will make a point to look at Mantis as you're the second person who seems to have gotten great benefit from it over another.


 

PA? what area of PA are you speaking of? I know a couple schools in my area that are good for kung fu it just depends on what you are looking for. As for Mantis, i love everything about it. The style, the lineage....and im very happy i took it up


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## Victor Smith (Apr 19, 2011)

I think if you go to this Wikipedia entry on pai lum you'll find a balanced account of the systems main points.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pai_lum


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 20, 2011)

clfsean said:


> Bak Lung = White Dragon (C)


 
Evil Devil Speak 



clfsean said:


> Bai Long = White Dragon (M)


 
The Chosen language of the Emperor 



clfsean said:


> Bak Lum = White Forest (C)


Evil Devil Speak 



clfsean said:


> Bai Lin = White Forest (M)


 
 The Chosen language of the Emperor 



clfsean said:


> Good man!!!


 
OK, That one I agree with


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 20, 2011)

oaktree said:


> I don't know I heard Harbin girls are very cute:cheers:


 
I've heard that too....but Beijingren are better.... and I did say that


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 20, 2011)

Pai Lum is only a name....now quit bothering me and go train :uhyeah:

But with that said, I tend to research a lot of CMA styles and the ones I train even more, so, as already stated, do the research. And as a bit of advice when it comes to researching CMA styles.... don't ever believe the first 2 or 3 things you find...unless they agree 100%. And you may find that you simply cannot find out the whole truth. And always, ALWAYS, *ALWAYS* go with Chinese characters over any Romanization


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## SouthPaw (Apr 20, 2011)

Noted and filed Sir, Thank you very much.


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## longfiredragon (Jan 3, 2017)

Over the years in researching my style I have seen this post many times.  For what ever reason it seems that no one has ever cleared this up.  So I finally decided to put my 2 cents in.  As a long time student of Pai Lum this is my understanding of the name Garandmaster Pai gave his style.  Anyone can look this up.  In naming the style all Grandmaster Pai was doing is paying respect to his Chinese and Hawaiian Family linage.  The word Pai as a Sir name (Or family name) in Chinese means WHITE.  The word Lum as a Sir name (Or family name) in Hawaiian means DRAGON.  So there you have it, Pai Lum/White Dragon.  It was just Grandmasters way of paying respect to his two families. Grandmaster Pai was very smart and wise, not too complicated. 

Thanks


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## Midnight-shadow (Jan 4, 2017)

Xue Sheng said:


> Pai Lum is only a name....now quit bothering me and go train :uhyeah:
> 
> But with that said, I tend to research a lot of CMA styles and the ones I train even more, so, as already stated, do the research. And as a bit of advice when it comes to researching CMA styles.... don't ever believe the first 2 or 3 things you find...unless they agree 100%. And you may find that you simply cannot find out the whole truth. And always, ALWAYS, *ALWAYS* go with Chinese characters over any Romanization



As I discovered, you very rarely find the whole truth when it comes to CMAs (probably because the Chinese have an annoying habit of trying to destroy their entire culture every few hundred years).


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## Y.K. Hoh (Jun 4, 2019)

longfiredragon said:


> Over the years in researching my style I have seen this post many times.  For what ever reason it seems that no one has ever cleared this up.  So I finally decided to put my 2 cents in.  As a long time student of Pai Lum this is my understanding of the name Garandmaster Pai gave his style.  Anyone can look this up.  In naming the style all Grandmaster Pai was doing is paying respect to his Chinese and Hawaiian Family linage.  The word Pai as a Sir name (Or family name) in Chinese means WHITE.  The word Lum as a Sir name (Or family name) in Hawaiian means DRAGON.  So there you have it, Pai Lum/White Dragon.  It was just Grandmasters way of paying respect to his two families. Grandmaster Pai was very smart and wise, not too complicated.
> Thanks



This post reminded me of a conversation I had years ago with a Canadian Bak Mei practitioner who told me that he knew Daniel Pai and is the person who suggested the name to him. "Lum" as in _Siu Lahm_ and _mouh lahm _seems to have been the inspiration for the second element. So, nothing to do with the mythical _lung _creature but a reference to a "forest" or congregation. It is a curious construction and it might seem that _kyuhn _or_ mun _might be expected today to reference a system. But here's my explanation: neither of them spoke Chinese.


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