# Turtle Position - pros and cons



## Makalakumu (Jan 15, 2006)

My jujutsu teacher also trained in judo.  In judo, when they grapple, they get into what they call "the turtle".  This position is when one person gets on their hands and knees, gets really low and protects their limps by pulling them close.  My teacher does this and he is very good at protecting himself, however, I cringe every time I see it.  With a slight rule change or in a self defense situation, this position will probably lose the day.  What are your opinions on The Turtle?  

My first thought on it is to never let myself get into that position if I can help it.  Are there any self defense applications?


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## green meanie (Jan 15, 2006)

I hate the turtle position. I think it's made the rear mount more dangerous than it has to be. Rather than turtle I prefer to keep moving and draw on my wrestling background to help find ways to escape. My two cents.


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## arnisador (Jan 15, 2006)

It's sort of a desperation tactic much of the time, though if you have a leg of your standing opponent while turtling you can often work to somewhere good.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jan 15, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> My first thought on it is to never let myself get into that position if I can help it.


 
agree!



> Are there any self defense applications?


 
Some Sambo leg locks came from this position, both offensive and defensive. So yes, there are some self defense applications as well. If you want to see the clips just let me know.

Off course, if you are in this position, your opponent has bigger chances on getting an LBS (Lower body submissions) on you. So, if not in real desperate situation, never ever get into this position.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 15, 2006)

My biggest concern is with striking.  I feel helpless in that position and if someone was in the rear mount, I'd be in big trouble.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jan 15, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> My biggest concern is with striking. I feel helpless in that position and if someone was in the rear mount, I'd be in big trouble.


 
Actually one of the better applications of the turtle, in combat sambo anyway, is to assume this position to lure the opponent into throwing a football-type kick to the sambist's ribs. from here, the sambist could execute a kneebar.


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## Henderson (Jan 15, 2006)

Some of these opinions on offense from the Turtle position are interesting.  I've always just considered "turtling-up" just like saying "uncle".

Frank


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## Andrew Green (Jan 15, 2006)

Sometimes a useful transitionary position, not a place you'd want to stay.  Amateur wrestling calls this "Referee's position", if a match is stopped and restarted the person with the disadvantage is restarted here with the other on top and on the side.

If you are turtled you should be active, looking to get guard, stand up, get a leg, etc.  Not just covering up, then it is only a matter of time before you do get locked (or kicked if rules allow)


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## arnisador (Jan 15, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Actually one of the better applications of the turtle, in combat sambo anyway, is to assume this position to lure the opponent into throwing a football-type kick to the sambist's ribs. from here, the sambist could execute a kneebar.



That's  the kind of thing I was referring to! If you can get a leg, you can often do something with it.


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## karatekid1975 (Jan 16, 2006)

We were doing a drill with a position similar to the turtle in Jujitsu. One person would "turtle" the other mounted and to one side. We were practicing excapes. I would almost always go for the leg if I was the "turtle." I agree with arnisador. If you can get the leg, I think you have the advantage at that point. It worked well for me, anyways.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jan 16, 2006)

yep, arnisador and andrew always got interesting points! 

by the way, my sensei once joked "never ever use this position if you are doing sambo or judo match against a guy who is known to be a gay..." 

(joking! joking!)


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