# Question on Shoulder throw



## Spook (Feb 17, 2006)

I've just started judo and have been doing it for about a month. Im doing fine with most of the throws and feel very comfortable with the holds, chokes, etc.

There is one throw that is either hit or miss with me. Sometimes I do it fine, no problems, other times its like a struggle and my right arm feels like it gets caught to the side. Its *Morote Seoinage* (Two arm shoulder throw).

The thing i have the most difficulty with is my right arm (the one grabbing the lapel). It seems when i step and turn (getting below the center of gravity) that my right arm gets caught up and wont turn with me because of my grip. Someone told me to drop my grip lower on the lapel so i get more slack out of the gi but I still seem to have difficulty.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


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## kenpojujitsu (Feb 17, 2006)

You can find a lot of basic information at www.judoinfo.com

I have very little information and of course I can not watch you do the technique.  On the arm that gets caught up, is that wrist getting bent?
Keep the wrist straigt and drive the elbow up under the arm pit.
Of course the kuzushi has to be there before you can do this.  Uke's body has to come forward and turn slightly so you can fit in properly.
If the kuzushi is not there, then the elbow has to go more forward at a more awkward angle as opposed to straight across in order to get underneath.


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## karatekid1975 (Feb 18, 2006)

I had the same problem in Judo. I have a similar problem in jujitsu (because I haven't done throws in so long). But we worked it, and I got a bit better at it. My hip throw is still my best throw tho (I worked that a lot in Judo. It just carried over to jujitsu).

My advice would be, like kenpojujitsu said. Watch your wrist and where you grap the gi (it could throw you off). You said your center of gravity was ok, but are you sure? make sure you are lower than your uke. I use the belt as a landmark. Make sure your belt is lower than theirs (I don't know why, but this helps me LOL), and you get into a good solid stance (perfered by your style). Then do the throw.

Try playing with different angles and where you grap ukes gi. This helped me a lot. It took a while, but I found what worked for me. Now the shoulder throw is a peice of cake to me.


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## Aaron Fields (Feb 18, 2006)

Als, make sure that you keep your arm in against your body.   In regards to your grip, make sure you are gripping correctly and not binding the hand.

Aaron Fields
Seattle Jujutsu Club, Hatake Dojo
Sea-Town Sombo
www.seattle-jujutsu.org


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## bignick (Feb 18, 2006)

Keep the wrist straight, gooseneck the wrist and you're asking for an injury.  You may also not be getting enough kazushi to efficiently throw the other person.  Make sure you're drawing them forward the entire time, give them some slack and you're back to square one.

But overall, remember, it's only been a month...give things time.  My judo instructor has been doing judo for over 40 years, and according to his instructor in another 20 or 30 he'll really start to figure it out.....


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## Spook (Feb 18, 2006)

kenpojujitsu said:
			
		

> Of course the kuzushi has to be there before you can do this.  Uke's body has to come forward and turn slightly so you can fit in properly.
> If the kuzushi is not there, then the elbow has to go more forward at a more awkward angle as opposed to straight across in order to get underneath.



Thanks for the responses everyone! I believe you are correct kenpo i was focusing so much on my right arm and where my feet/hips are that i was doing a poor kuzushi. I'll try it tonight in class and see if that will help. Thanks for the help you can expect some more questions from me in the future


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## thetruth (Mar 7, 2006)

One trick I was shown by my old Judo instructor though not text book correct was to grab the lapel on the same side as the arm.  It feels weird but it worked for me. It confuses the s*%t out of your opponent in randori too.
Cheers
Sam


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## Abbax8 (Mar 17, 2006)

Marote-Seoi-Nage is one of those throws in judo that is not meant for everyone. Many, many people have injured their wrists and elbows trying to make it work. One poster suggested pushing your elbow up into their armpit. While this can make for a good throw, this is also how injuries occur with this throw. Your just learning it, so give it time, but check with your sensei about this throw. In my class, I have some students who are naturals at Marote. Others will NEVER be comfortable with it. We teach it, but it is one throw that I really am careful with.

Peace

Dennis


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## Brandon Fisher (Apr 9, 2006)

that throw takes a lot of practice.  Its very difficult to keep both arms locked in and grab the lapel and still execute the throw properly.  Practice makes perfect os really has a famous master has said perfect practice makes perfect.  Good luck with it.


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## JitsuAddict (Apr 23, 2006)

something that helps me with all of my load bearing throws (such as koshi nage, seoi nage, yama arashi ect.) is when you are pulling the uke's kuzushi up and away, concentrate on your hip position bring your hips down back. next step you want to bring your hips up and uke's kuzushi down. think of your arm and hip position as being connected in a big circle and all you have to do is rotate the circle. i hope this makes sense and helps your throws.


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## kingkong89 (Nov 14, 2006)

just remember the best way to throw somone is to become their legs, scoop your body under theirs , bend, and throw. HICH


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## Keikai (Nov 14, 2006)

thetruth said:


> One trick I was shown by my old Judo instructor though not text book correct was to grab the lapel on the same side as the arm. It feels weird but it worked for me. It confuses the s*%t out of your opponent in randori too.
> Cheers
> Sam


 
In Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu the throw you have described is known as Kata Eri Seoi Nage (Single Lapel Shoulder Throw) and is used so that after the throw it is easier to convert to a strangle with the gi.

Spook the Two Handed SHoulder throw is designed to be done against a taller opponent. The elbow under the armpit becomes the shoulder. Very hard to do against a smaller or same sized person. When you turn your hand the knuckles of your fingers should be facing away from the opponent.

Having your belt below their belt is a very good guide because it means your centre of gravity is below theirs and you are able to lift with your legs a lot easier.

Greg Palmer 
Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu
Hope that helps


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## matt.m (Jan 5, 2007)

It is all about the "Pull", kazushi, kazushi, kazushi.....look on 2 arm shoulder throw you have to let your arm flow.  If you lock up you will get injured, I have seen it way too many times.  Go too fast you will get injured, just relax let it flow and worry more about the off balancing.


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