# Elbow question (Medical)



## KenpoTess (Mar 2, 2004)

About 5 or so months ago, I was sparring a 6th degree BB from another system.. and blocked his kick with my elbow.. (I do wear elbow pads). Since then the outside top bones have been become more prominent.. and the pain is a burning pain that will be constant when I use my arm, from trying to take a cap off a bottle, to lifting something from a table.. the pain is also sporadic just out of the blue.. and my arm has weakened significantly.. I find when doing Tecs.. it burns.. so I've been attempting to do things with my left hand.. now guess what.. My left elbow is killing me.. arghhh.. from my research it sounds like I've damaged the tendons.. and have been using a brace..doing the RICE thing.. but I am going Crazy~!  I've also been working the rubber band strengthening exercises with it.. but when it starts cooking from the inside out with pain.. that's hard to do.. 
I've dealt with broken bones healing on their own.. Gee who hasn't eh   But this is something I'm really getting PO'd about.. it just doesn't get any better~!
 Anyone else have such a thing?

Tess


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## Bob Hubbard (Mar 2, 2004)

get some xrays to verify nothings busted.
If something is, say a chiped bone, you can do serious damage to the joint.


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## KenpoTess (Mar 2, 2004)

Xrays.. Doctors.. egad.. that's $$... No insurance Bob.. 
last time I went to the Docs for my leg.. it was a $8000 bill~!!  Xrays, IV antibiotics (outpatient) for a kick in the leg that turned into cellulitis overnight.. 
Sucks it does~!!


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## Zepp (Mar 2, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Xrays.. Doctors.. egad.. that's $$... No insurance Bob..
> last time I went to the Docs for my leg.. it was a $8000 bill~!!  Xrays, IV antibiotics (outpatient) for a kick in the leg that turned into cellulitis overnight..
> Sucks it does~!!



That sounds like you definitely went to the wrong place for medical care that time.

No doctor's going to be able to give you a proper diagnosis for this without taking some x-rays.  But you probably know that.


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## don bohrer (Mar 2, 2004)

Tess,

Hope you start feeling better soon. Getting hurt is no fun. 


don


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## moving target (Mar 2, 2004)

Well tendons take a long time to heal. I had a sprain playing soccer that took well over 3 months to get to the point where I could walk without an ancle brace, its fine now but it's a slow process (it was luck that I injured myself in one of the last games of the season so I had some time to let it heal). You very well may have to give it a rest for a few months.


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## KenpoTess (Mar 2, 2004)

yeah sure sounds like it eh Zepp.. a Local ER... and 5 days of outpatient IV Antibiotic therapy.. nearly blew my mind when we got the bill~!!

I've had so many surgeries etc. and when I had a car accident and had my sciatic nerve nicked during surgery.. ended up with footdrop.. docs are not on my happy wanna go see list.. 
If it's Tendonitis .. which I'm pretty sure it is.. just a bad case since it's not getting better but worse *course I use the arm constantly*... I know what they will do for it.. same thing I am doing..
I'm just venting cuz I'm sick of it hurting.. 
----------------------------------------------------------------

Don.. Thanks ~!! 
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MovingTarget.. oh I hear ya.. Glad your ankle is better.. I had 3 broken fingers which I let heal by themselves.. took a year before I could make a fist again..*Grumbles.. I'm a stubborn thing at times 


Tess


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## warrior.mama (Mar 3, 2004)

I came across an article recently on elbow injuries.  I was doing research for a paper I was writing on Massage as a tool for martial artists.  Here's the link:  http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_dolan_0303.htm.  (I think you'll have to copy and paste this address in)  The article is called "Iai Elbow" and talks about elbow injuries for martial artists.

I know you're not big on doctor visits, but a martial artist I know and another physically active person I know both had good results recently by going to a sports medicine physician rather than their general physician.

From a massage viewpoint, massage can be very helpful.  Also using RICE like you are doing.  If you are past the acute state of injury, you can also try alternating hot and cold packs  (3 minutes cold, 1 minute hot x 3 times, ending with a cold pack).  Massage and alternation cold/hot packs can help speed healing.

Check out the article.  Speedy healing!

warrior.mama


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## someguy (Mar 3, 2004)

Hope you heal soon


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## theletch1 (Mar 3, 2004)

Tess, I know where you're coming from.  I've had my right elbow hyper-extended by an overzealous arm bar before.  I messed up my left wrist back in september on a front wrist throw (same overzealous classmate) and even now it is still very tender and had to have a neoprene brace until just a week or two ago.  Time, RICE, tiger balm and just not getting the elbow too worked up will help the best I think.  Lots of luck.


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## TonyM. (Mar 3, 2004)

Tess, I had a similar problem and this worked AMAZINGLY well for me. Buy two homeopatic remedies from the health food store, Arnica Montana and Ruta Grava. Get the 30x tablet dosage. The dose will be four tablets, four times a day. Dissolve them under your tongue for quick absorbtion.
Day one take four doses of Arnica Montana, 15 minutes apart.
Day two take four doses of Ruta, 15 minutes apart.
Day three take four doses of Ruta, an hour apart.
Day four through eleven, Take four doses of Ruta, four hours apart.
For this to be effective you will have to disscontinue any other meds during the cycle. Don't disable or overuse the limb. Treat it normally being mindfull not to overextend. This worked when nothing else seemed to.
                                                              Tony


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## ShaolinWolf (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, I know alot of you might say NO!, but I think Chiropractors are the best bone doctors. My Chiropractor does x-rays and such, of course and well, they are great bone doctors. (well, it's a family that owns the business, so the father and son both do it. It also happens that the son(in his 30s) does TKD with me and referred me into ATA TKD. His wife, and his other brothers(17 and 14) and sister(12) do it too.) Chiropractors are not just back people, they do things from acupuncture to bone setting. They fix sinus problems and such. And alot of the time, they can be cheaper than the doctors your talking about. We're on a payment plan too for my family. So, it's like 12 dollars minimum a visit for just adjustments. And most X-rays are around 100-200 dollars along with the adjustments, therapy, and 

I know you don't like doctors, but Chiropractors are alot better than people think. I know plenty of people who say stuff about Chiropractors being nuts and alot of people are afraid of them, but though some adjustments may hurt, it's just the fact that your body isn't used to it.


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## Zepp (Mar 11, 2004)

So how's the elbow doing lately Tess?  Getting any better?


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## KenpoTess (Mar 11, 2004)

oops.. I need to come into this forum more *G* Thanks for all the replies and suggestions all~!!

Zepp.. it's still miserable.. burning and pretty useless.. I overworked it last weekend.. had to do some drywall work and painting.. I'm really paying for it this week.. and being it's my dominant arm.. well you know how that goes when it comes to babying it.. not gonna happen.. And doing my tecs.. ack.. No Fun~!  Methinks I'm my own worst enemy eh

Thanks for asking 

Tess


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## Touch Of Death (Mar 11, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Xrays.. Doctors.. egad.. that's $$... No insurance Bob..
> last time I went to the Docs for my leg.. it was a $8000 bill~!!  Xrays, IV antibiotics (outpatient) for a kick in the leg that turned into cellulitis overnight..
> Sucks it does~!!


You help run a karate school and you don't have insurance? Yegods!
Sean


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## KenpoTess (Mar 11, 2004)

Personal Health insurance is $$$...


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## ShaolinWolf (Mar 11, 2004)

Well, let's hope it's just a bone bruise and not a fracture...err, well bone bruises can last a while, maybe it's just a hairline fracture at just the right angle to zap you energy and cause the sporadic pain.

Hope you feel better Tess...


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## KenpoTess (Mar 11, 2004)

I'm hoping the same thing SW  I think the nerves are damaged as the pain is a burning pain.. and those will take nothing but time to heal.

Thanks alot 

Tess


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## Taimishu (Apr 1, 2004)

Hi Tess
You could come to the UK for a holiday and use our hospitals, they dont cost, and I'm told airfares are cheap just now.
Take in some MA's while you are at it.  

David


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## KenpoTess (Apr 1, 2004)

Sounds good David *G*  Seig and I sure could use a vacation~!!   I'm trying out the magnetized elbow brace today and Ibuprophen.. Was informed this morning that Mr. Conatser also suffered from exactly the same problem.. and it took 2 yrs to heal ..   Problem is that since I am really babying the right arm.. my left elbow is becoming rapidly painful too.. *growls*

Tess


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## TonyM. (Apr 1, 2004)

You could reread my previous post.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 1, 2004)

Thanks Tony 

I have a tendency towards allergic reactions to herbals and other such products.. I tried a couple of innocuous treatments once and it was a benadryl moment.. so needless to say I'm hesitant if not downright paranoid about what I put into my system.  I'm sure it works nicely and sure wish I could give it a try.. the only meds I'll take are Excedrin and that's it~!!

I'm really glad it helped you.. and I appreciate your advice!

Tess


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 1, 2004)

Tess:

My training and licensure are as a Chiro w/ Sports Med focus, but am currently working as rehab & PT supervisor and PA in an orthopedic med group.  If there's anything I can offer, I'd be glad to help, but would need to know more about the location of the injury and type of pain, as well as what bony bumps are bigger then they used to be.  And for what it's worth, burning pain with minimal motion is usually a sign that you're tugging on an unhealed site, and may have started the strength (rubber band) part of your rehab before the soft tissues had a good chance to set.  It may be worth it in the long run (even though it causes stir-craziness) to peel back on the stength rehab, and just do light range-of-motion and gentle stretching exercises for a spell.  A damaged nerve is more likely to present with a deep, dull aching pain with associated sclerotomal/referred pain (parts hurting that didn't take the hit, because they all grew up out of the same cell-groups as an embryo); the focal burning during activity is a possible cue that it needs more rest; it may indicate that you're tearing weakly bonded/healing tissues a bit more with the efforts that make it burn.

Ciao,

D.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 2, 2004)

Thanks Dave 

The area that I've noticed protruding is the lateral epicondyle.. in comparison to the left arm it is much more pronounced and when I palpate the area.. with my left fingers, I can place my index finger on the tip of the bone, and rolling my finger downward 3 fingerwidths.. that entire area is very tender.  The burning pain comes totally out of the blue, even at rest.  I'm sure it's a good case of Tennis elbow.. though I think I shall rename it to Kenpo Elbow *G*
I appreciate your time and information~!!

Thank you 

Tess


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi Tess,

My husband had tennis elbow and also injured the wrist on the same arm. They hurt for months and he was losing strength in the arm because he couldn't use it much. My knees were also becoming sore when I excercised. This is what we did and it worked.

Begin taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements and MSM supplements. These are good for joints and connective tissue. I used to be a horse owner and did a lot of jumping which is very hard on the horses knees. These supplements were given to horses to prevent lameness from that type of activity. I also owned a tack store at the time (horse stuff) and had alot of people coming into my store buying those supplements for themselves. Later it came out in dosages for people. 

So when my husband and I began having these problems a few years after I sold my horse and closed the store I went to good old Stuffmart and got them for us. My husbands arm is fine now and so are my knees. You do have to take the supplements daily and it takes a while to build up in your system. But if you take the daily dosage faithfully it will help if that's what the problem is. Even if the problem is something else and those supplements don't apply...they will still benefit your joints and connective tisssue and could help prevent problems in the future.

Good luck and I hope you heal quickly.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Apr 3, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Thanks Dave
> 
> The area that I've noticed protruding is the lateral epicondyle.. in comparison to the left arm it is much more pronounced and when I palpate the area.. with my left fingers, I can place my index finger on the tip of the bone, and rolling my finger downward 3 fingerwidths.. that entire area is very tender. The burning pain comes totally out of the blue, even at rest. I'm sure it's a good case of Tennis elbow.. though I think I shall rename it to Kenpo Elbow *G*
> I appreciate your time and information~!!
> ...


Tess:

If the burning is from resulting myofasciitis/tennis elbow (kenpo elbow) post injury, a good Rolfer will be able to do wonders for you. Forget the Chiro's, keep away from the prtho's, and locate a Rolfer...specilize in deep-tissue "re-sculpting" of the connective tissue of the body. They usually like to sell you on a 10-series (10 visits in a row), but not necessary for treatment of a specific injury. I do "Active Release", which is a jippy rip-off form of the stuiff Rolfers do, and kindergarten compared to their work. However, for the $150.00-ish you'll pay that one visit, you'll be absolutely amazed at the outcome.

I send all my toughest, recalcitrant cases to Rolfers...seen people who didn't respond to conservative care, and even failed surgeries, come out of 1-2 sessions with no pain or restricton. Forewarning...hurts like hell. VERY deep tissue massage...premedicate with a bottle of your favorite beverage before going, and have somebody else drive. 

Had medial epicondylitis so bad, I finally caved and saw one of the rolfers I had been referring to. Hurt like blazes as the guy "stripped" the fascia from mid-brachium to carpal tunnel. Went from not being able to hold a cup of coffee to just fine. It's my secret weapon when working with the cases everybody else has failed on...send them to a rolfer. People still say, "Dr. C helped me so much", and if I'm lucky...from a biz standpoint...I can cut them off before they get to the part about how I helped by sending them to someone else. 

Yeah, the price per visit is steep, but you'll only need to go one time to see marked, serious improvement.

Bon Chance!

D.

PS -- look them up on the web. Should be able to find someone near you. They are the quiet underground that doctors turn to when they are in trouble. One of the ortho's I work with finally caved and went as a conservative care trial before surgery. 80-90% improvement in 2 visits, with 3 levels of lumbar disc herniation + occlusion of neural foramen. He's having a hard time now making spinal surgery referrals with a straight conscience.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 3, 2004)

Sil Lum TigerLady said:
			
		

> Hi Tess,
> 
> 
> Begin taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplements and MSM supplements.
> ...



Thanks TigerLady~!

I tried one brand of Glucosamine/Chondroitin and my tongue started itching like crazy..  soooo I quickly realized I have an allergy to something in it..So hence my hesitancy to try any other such products..
One of my friends nearly died when he took the same thing and didn't realize he was very allergic to alfalfa.. and it was one of the ingrediants.. so now he's very cautious..
I'm not sure what I'm allergic to but I'm pretty paranoid bout trying anything new 

Tess


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## KenpoTess (Apr 3, 2004)

Dave, Yes I've heard good things about Rolfing and that's good advice,  we know a guy who just happens to be one sooo may give him a call

I've been trying this magnetic brace for the last 72 hours and it really seems to be helping.. still some burning when I'm typing.. hence I'm not typing alot on MT lately ..

I sure appreciate all~!!
Thank you~!

Tess


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 5, 2004)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Thanks TigerLady~!
> 
> I tried one brand of Glucosamine/Chondroitin and my tongue started itching like crazy..  soooo I quickly realized I have an allergy to something in it..So hence my hesitancy to try any other such products..
> One of my friends nearly died when he took the same thing and didn't realize he was very allergic to alfalfa.. and it was one of the ingrediants.. so now he's very cautious..
> ...


 
Yeah, I'd be hesitant to try something new too! Yikes! 

I really hope you find something to help get your elbow back in order quickly and hopefully painlessly...both physically and in the old pocketbook.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 13, 2004)

Well I've been wearing this magnetic elbow brace for 2 weeks around the clock.. and I will attest.. It has helped immensely~!!  I tried the magnetic-free same type of support for the same amount of time and it didn't help at all.... so I have to say.. the magnets are doing something ~!
If I take it off.. the burning pain comes back immediately.  I'm still taking it easy in my tecs and have put sparring on hold for a few months.. but It's so much more tolerable and I'm very pleased


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## Maltair (May 24, 2004)

Hey fellow Kenponist's  :asian: ,

Been having a problem with my right elbow since I started training Kenpo. Started in Sept. last year and after a couple months started having pain in my elbow. Figured it was due to my body being fairly idle for 7 years, (was a gymnast before that, all through high school and coached for a few years during college, and no issues with said elbow).

Took it easy on that arm and it went away. Came back a couple months later and talked to a physical therapist about it, she said it was just like tennis elbow. Need to rub it and give it a friction massage for 15 min then ice it for 15 min (uhmmm, she said "Massage" :boing2. Helped and went away again wink2.

Started sabbatical from work (2 months paid vac every 7 yrs.  :ultracool ) recently and stepped up my training a whole  just tested for my purple belt, Woohoo! 
Prob is, my stupid elbow is acting up again  nothing too acute, just sore and week. Sifu said, I need to take care of that or it could turn in to tendentious. 

So, here is the elbow question:
What can I do to for me elbow? Cut it off and try a hook? Arrrrr  %-}  (Finally figured a way to use that sucker   ) rather not go to the Dr. is avail though. What do you guys think? Just looking for help from anybody that may have gone through this already. Thanxs.


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## KenpoTess (May 24, 2004)

Hey Maltair~!

Oh I sure commiserate with you... it's miserable, these elbows when they act up~!  Read the replies to what people said to me and hopefully something there will give you relief.   Mine comes and goes.. if I leave it alone and not use it, the pain lessens.. but I'm also now affected by weather. When it's cold.. man it hurts.. also when it is bad weather out.. go figure.. I've had to put a hold on sparring and my Penjak Silat training as the latter is Elbow movement prevalent~!

Good luck

~Tess


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