# Drunken Fist Questions/Help



## ilhe4e12345 (May 11, 2011)

Hello everyone, i am not sure if this is the right area for this or not but i wanted to throw this out there. I am looking for information about Drunken Fist or Zui Quan. Anybody out tehre take it? I have been reading about it for awhile and it has always interested me but i wanted to know more about it. I know there are other arts with drunken forms in it, as a matter of fact i believe there is a drunken form found within 7 Star Mantis which is what i am currently taking and have been for close to 3 years now. The footwork, movements and flexibility of Zui Quan is just...well to be honest...amazing. Its so fluid, so strong and so unpredictable! i love it! Any info you might have on it or another style that contains drunken forms would be greatly appreciated 

Anyways my area doesnt have any Drunken certified teachers (atleast that i could find). I am currently located in the United States in Pennsylvania the Scranton area. If any of you know of a teacher or school close to me that would be great i would like to further this and possibly look into sitting in on some classes.


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## fangjian (May 11, 2011)

[yt]Opy6eg9T4cQ[/yt]



Master Zhao ChangJun is in Moorestown NJ, which is a little over 2 hours away from you. A couple private classes a month for a few months would be solid. He is a great guy and a wonderful coach.


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## clfsean (May 11, 2011)

fangjian said:


> [yt]Opy6eg9T4cQ[/yt]
> 
> 
> 
> Master Zhao ChangJun is in Moorestown NJ, which is a little over 2 hours away from you. A couple private classes a month for a few months would be solid. He is a great guy and a wonderful coach.



Met Master Zhao in Xian back in 2001. Great host & solid skills.


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## clfsean (May 11, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> Hello everyone, i am not sure if this is the right area for this or not but i wanted to throw this out there. I am looking for information about Drunken Fist or Zui Quan. Anybody out tehre take it? I have been reading about it for awhile and it has always interested me but i wanted to know more about it. I know there are other arts with drunken forms in it, as a matter of fact i believe there is a drunken form found within 7 Star Mantis which is what i am currently taking and have been for close to 3 years now. The footwork, movements and flexibility of Zui Quan is just...well to be honest...amazing. Its so fluid, so strong and so unpredictable! i love it! Any info you might have on it or another style that contains drunken forms would be greatly appreciated
> 
> Anyways my area doesnt have any Drunken certified teachers (atleast that i could find). I am currently located in the United States in Pennsylvania the Scranton area. If any of you know of a teacher or school close to me that would be great i would like to further this and possibly look into sitting in on some classes.



There's been several discussions of this topic here already. Search around a bit.


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 18, 2011)

After reading what you guys have told me and after poking around through old posts, i sent an email to Master Zhao ChangJun at his school located in New Jersey. hopefully me and him will be able to work something out, as i have really been bitten by the "drunken bug" and want to learn more. anything else you guys might recommend i would greatly appreciate it  or any other schools/teachers close to Scranton PA (max 2 hours out or so) 

love these forums by the way, so many good and knowledgable people!


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## Flying Crane (May 18, 2011)

I don't kow anything about Sifu Zhao.  What is the focus of his teaching?  Is he teaching a traditional system, or Modern Wushu?  

If he is teaching something traditional, then I suspect the drunken would be a component of that system.  He may take you as a student, but you may need to train the full system and would not learn any drunken material until he feels you are ready.  That might be years.  Just wanted to prepare you for the possibility.

If he is teaching Modern Wushu, then the drunken material would be of the Modern Wushu variety, which means it's meant more for competition and performance and not really for real fighting.  Just wanted to also prepare you for that possibility.

I'm at work right now and am unable to view videos, so I cannot view the one posted above.


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## Xue Sheng (May 18, 2011)

All I know about Drunken Fist is that the one guy I use to spar that did it was inhumanly flexible and could hit really hard


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## fangjian (May 18, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't kow anything about Sifu Zhao.  What is the focus of his teaching?  Is he teaching a traditional system, or Modern Wushu?
> 
> If he is teaching something traditional, then I suspect the drunken would be a component of that system.  He may take you as a student, but you may need to train the full system and would not learn any drunken material until he feels you are ready.  That might be years.  Just wanted to prepare you for the possibility.
> 
> ...



He is a modern wushu guy. But modern wushu guys from the 70's are not the same as modern wushu guys nowadays. However, his drunken style is not an 'entire system' or part of another 'system' like Choy Li Fut or anything. I would imagine his drunken style is geared more for performance, but you never know. He IS traditionally trained. You'd have to ask him.


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## clfsean (May 18, 2011)

fangjian said:


> He is a modern wushu guy. But modern wushu guys from the 70's are not the same as modern wushu guys nowadays. However, his drunken style is not an 'entire system' or part of another 'system' like Choy Li Fut or anything. I would imagine his drunken style is geared more for performance, but you never know. He IS traditionally trained. You'd have to ask him.



He has that old school gen1 or gen2 PRC wushu that is actually pretty formidable behind him. Also his main teacher was a Long fist guy when he was younger. I saw his teacher do the Xingyi Linkage in Xian & was just befuddled & amazed at watching that old man move. Blew me away.


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## Domino (May 19, 2011)

I love drunken style and enjoyed the straight sword video.

Shaolin Drunken




 
More Drunken, this show some application.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEmBldFZWQ8&feature=related


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## fangjian (May 19, 2011)

Why is it when I see these 'Shaolin Monks' doing modern wushu routines, they're always extremely exaggerated?  Their movements are odd and don't look right. Drunken, mantis, whatever.


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## clfsean (May 19, 2011)

fangjian said:


> Why is it when I see these 'Shaolin Monks' doing modern wushu routines, they're always extremely exaggerated? Their movements are odd and don't look right. Drunken, mantis, whatever.


 
Take a look at a piece of your question... all the answers are right there... 



fangjian said:


> 'Shaolin Monks' doing modern wushu routines


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## Xue Sheng (May 19, 2011)

I was drunk and in a fight once...does that count


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## Xue Sheng (May 19, 2011)

fangjian said:


> modern wushu routines


 
Nuff said


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## clfsean (May 19, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> I was drunk and in a fight once...does that count


 
No... you were drunk... you have disgraced your master & the Shaolin temple... :barf:


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## Xue Sheng (May 19, 2011)

clfsean said:


> No... you were drunk... you have disgraced your master & the Shaolin temple... :barf:


 
NAH!!! it's ok... I was not CMA then.... I was TKD and JJJ


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## Flying Crane (May 19, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> NAH!!! it's ok... I was not CMA then.... I was TKD and JJJ


 

then it was expected and you have honored your teacher and your lineage.


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## clfsean (May 19, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> NAH!!! it's ok... I was not CMA then.... I was TKD and JJJ


 

Oh... well... :uhyeah:... that's perfectly acceptable then!


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## Xue Sheng (May 19, 2011)

Being serious for a moment

A side effect of my starting CMA training was I stopped drinking. I did not intend to nor did I feel it was necessary&#8230;it just stopped. Of course it could have been my age and it was time to stop too. 

Or it could just be I was afraid of hearing &#8220;You have offended my family and you have offended the Shaolin Temple&#8221; in a dark alley one night  :uhyeah:


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## fangjian (May 19, 2011)

xue sheng said:


> being serious for a moment
> 
> a side effect of my starting cma training was i stopped drinking. I did not intend to nor did i feel it was necessaryit just stopped. Of course it could have been my age and it was time to stop too.
> 
> Or it could just be i was afraid of hearing you have offended my family and you have offended the shaolin temple in a dark alley one night  :uhyeah:



bastard!!!!!!


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 25, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't kow anything about Sifu Zhao. What is the focus of his teaching? Is he teaching a traditional system, or Modern Wushu?
> 
> If he is teaching something traditional, then I suspect the drunken would be a component of that system. He may take you as a student, but you may need to train the full system and would not learn any drunken material until he feels you are ready. That might be years. Just wanted to prepare you for the possibility.
> 
> ...


 

i sent an email asking more information. I fully respect Wushu practitioners but i want to learn Zui Quan from more of a self defense/traditional sense. i know its not as affective as most styles and its more showy but honestly i can see in a real life situation that it might be extremely advantagious. Im not saying against another well trained martial artisit, as they would see it and know what to expect but in real life situations the random footwork and movements could def be a better "surprise" tactic. Then again i dont really know, this is why i want to look into learning it. Everyone that i have seen talk about it a lot of times they say how "useless" it is accept for show...but....i still want to learn it, nothing wrong with that right?  lol


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## Flying Crane (May 25, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> i sent an email asking more information. I fully respect Wushu practitioners but i want to learn Zui Quan from more of a self defense/traditional sense. i know its not as affective as most styles and its more showy but honestly i can see in a real life situation that it might be extremely advantagious. Im not saying against another well trained martial artisit, as they would see it and know what to expect but in real life situations the random footwork and movements could def be a better "surprise" tactic. Then again i dont really know, this is why i want to look into learning it. Everyone that i have seen talk about it a lot of times they say how "useless" it is accept for show...but....i still want to learn it, nothing wrong with that right?  lol


 

I don't know if it's any more or any less effective than any other method.  It is a specific approach that teaches certain skills.  If the student learns to use those skills appropriately, it could be extremely effective.  Otherwise it might be useless.

I have no direct experience with drunken boxing.  I will make a couple more comments, tho.  If you envision drunken boxing in self defense as staggering around and weaving back and forth like a drunkard, and doing those backbends and hand postures like Jackie Chan in Drunken Master, then no I do not believe that is effective application of drunken boxing.

However, if you use the element of surprise, and learn to apply technique from unusual positionings, even when you appear to be in a compromised or vulnerable position, then it could be quite effective and nobody will "know what's coming", not even another experienced martial artist.

I think a lot of people have some serious misunderstandings about how Chinese martial arts tend to work.  I'll use my own training as an example.  I train in Tibetan White Crane system.  This is a mimetic system based on observations of the Crane.  I've done some serious reading about the bird, and there are some remarkable descriptions written by ornithologists and conservation biologists, people who have zero connection to martial arts.  They have described crane behavior that is remarkably similar to movements and strategies that are found directly in our forms.  What I'm saying is: the system was clearly inspired by direct observations of cranes, as verified by independent descriptions written by people with no connection to the art.  Many of the movements that we practice are directly connected to observable crane behavior.  The system was not simply "made up" based on what someone "imagined" a crane might do.

However, when we fight, we do not use these "crane" movements in a direct and obvious way.  The real goal of white crane is to teach you how to fully engage the entire body to power every technique that you do.  Those crane movements that we practice are designed to give you that skill, and those movements are simply a training vehicle to teach you to do so.  

When it comes to actually using your technique, we strive to have no recognizeable form at all.  We do not try to "fight like a crane".  Rather, we fight with full body engagement, which makes our techniques land with the destructive power of an eight-pound maul.  But it no longer looks like a crane.  The training method has taught us to do this, so we can then drop the "form" of the technique and deliver the goods from any position, in any way we wish.  This concept is a little abstract, but hopefully it makes sense to you.

Likewise, I think Drunken Boxing does not teach you to actually stagger and fall and roll and bend up like a pretzel as a way of fighting.  Rather, the practice of those movements, when properly understood, teaches you to deliver techniques with a certain kind of power, in a certain unexpected way.  When you actually fight with it, you don't look like you are drunk.  

Make sense?


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 25, 2011)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't know if it's any more or any less effective than any other method. It is a specific approach that teaches certain skills. If the student learns to use those skills appropriately, it could be extremely effective. Otherwise it might be useless.
> 
> I have no direct experience with drunken boxing. I will make a couple more comments, tho. If you envision drunken boxing in self defense as staggering around and weaving back and forth like a drunkard, and doing those backbends and hand postures like Jackie Chan in Drunken Master, then no I do not believe that is effective application of drunken boxing.
> 
> ...


 
it makes perfect sense and thats one of the reasons why i want to learn it. When i see certain styles shown in movies of course my first reaction is "omg thats amazing". personally i love the movie Drunken Master, but i also understand real life. i know that it is a MOVIE and that a real life fight does not play out like that, and of course within a movie the moves, forms and styles are all over done to make it more entertaining. I know this, i have been in many fights (use to be a bouncer at a strip club for along time) and let me tell you, im glad i took up martial arts. It has taught me a lot about real life fighting and what to do in certain situations so i totally understand that there arent "flashy" back flips and things in a street fight. 

As for the understanding of the style, i dont walk around and day dream about fights, i want to learn becuase its interesting, its fun and a great history behind them and a lot of fun. You are correct and if taught by the right person and in the correct way it could be a great tool in a self defense situation. I just always hear how "useless" it is in a fight but yet i can see where it would be great just becuase its something out of the ordinary. Oh well, lets hope the place in Jersey is tradtional way of teaching instead of just for competition...


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## fangjian (May 25, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> Oh well, lets hope the place in Jersey is tradtional way of teaching instead of just for competition...



I don't think it will be *exactly* what you are looking for. But I don't think you will be disappointed with what Zhao Changjun has to offer either. Good luck


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 25, 2011)

fangjian said:


> I don't think it will be *exactly* what you are looking for. But I don't think you will be disappointed with what Zhao Changjun has to offer either. Good luck


 

i dont think i will either, but i look forward to hearing from them. They dont have any private classes available for the next 2 months on weekends so ill have to wait awhile before i can even consider starting something like this, so it gives me time to research and talk to them a little more before i get myself into it. Im excited either way becuase it will give me a chance to talk to some who actually knows the art...and that to me is worth it


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## fangjian (May 25, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> i dont think i will either, but i look forward to hearing from them. They dont have any private classes available for the next 2 months on weekends so ill have to wait awhile before i can even consider starting something like this, so it gives me time to research and talk to them a little more before i get myself into it. Im excited either way becuase it will give me a chance to talk to some who actually knows the art...and that to me is worth it



Two months is a good amount of time to get ready as well. Zui Quan is one of those styles that everybody wants to learn. It's also one of those styles that once they start learning, it's _not so fun anymore_. hehehe. It's very demanding. So start working your endurance and flexibility, so you get the most out of it when you see Master Zhao.


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## Flying Crane (May 25, 2011)

ilhe4e12345 said:


> I just always hear how "useless" it is in a fight...


 
I've not heard that, but honestly I've not heard much at all about it.  I think that outside Modern Wushu, very few people do it and it doesn't get a lot of attention.

I did see a youtube video of a match where a drunken style guy got beat up by an MMA guy.  Of course the drunken style guy was staggering around, pretending to be drunk, and that sort of reinforces my prior points.


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## ilhe4e12345 (May 25, 2011)

fangjian said:


> Two months is a good amount of time to get ready as well. Zui Quan is one of those styles that everybody wants to learn. It's also one of those styles that once they start learning, it's _not so fun anymore_. hehehe. It's very demanding. So start working your endurance and flexibility, so you get the most out of it when you see Master Zhao.


 

oh believe me i am and hopefully by then my strained hamstring will be better and i can really push myself. i have been pretty much spending days after work standing in horse for as long as possible, while watching tv, talking on the phone...lol as a amatter of fact during a conference call i was doing it at my desk and someone walked by and called me grasshopper...lol.....

as for the flexibility i have been doing a lot of yoga since i hurt my leg i cant go to the gym much anymore and i wanted to keep myself active so i do a lot of yoga during the morning when i wake up....so flexibility hopefully will be in top shape for this


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