# Sorry for another question like this, but I need advice



## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

I am wanting to start training for self defense.  I have been looking at various systems, but cannot really nail it down to what I want/can do.  Things I am considering....

1. How long does it take to become effective?  This question is not due to impatience or immaturity.  I do not expect to be a "black belt" in a year by no means.  However, my reality is I am 45 yrs old and am starting late in life.  I do not want an art that will take 10 years to have a base line of effectiveness.  That being said I plan to continue to learn throughout my lifetime.

2.  Self Defense.  I am primarily looking for a system of self defense.  I would also like to incorporate weapon skills whether as a combination of arts or one by itself.

3.  I live in N. Irving, TX which is part of the Dallas, TX area.  We have many options here.  Would like an instructor geared towards what I am considering.  

4.  I would certainly appreciate the community an art can provide as well.

5.  I am 5'7" and out of shape.  I have been doing some Cross Fit to work on this.

If this post offends in any way I apologize.  It is a sincere request,  I appreciate and respect experience and advice from all.

Thank you


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## MI_martialist (Oct 13, 2016)

If you want to quickly and efficiently learn how to protect yourself and what is personal to you, martial arts classes are not the way to do it.


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

What would you suggest?


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## MI_martialist (Oct 13, 2016)

domant said:


> What would you suggest?



Look for tactical training, firearms training, improvised everyday carry training.

If you want a prolonged study of martial things, do the above and take martial classes.


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

I appreciate the feedback.  I have done and continue with the above.  I am an NRA instructor myself.  I am wanting to add to this as a firearm is not always an appropriate or necessary solution.  I do also appreciate and desire the lifelong study of a discipline as well.

Perhaps I do not have a clear understanding of the fullness of "martial."   Can you explain more?


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## MI_martialist (Oct 13, 2016)

domant said:


> I appreciate the feedback.  I have done and continue with the above.  I am an NRA instructor myself.  I am wanting to add to this as a firearm is not always an appropriate or necessary solution.  I do also appreciate and desire the lifelong study of a discipline as well.
> 
> Perhaps I do not have a clear understanding of the fullness of "martial."   Can you explain more?




Good to hear...I agree with a firearm not always being appropriate...in fact, it is probably almost never appropriate.

I will refrain from expounding on what martial is since it usually offends people's sensibilities.


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

Ok, thank you.  I will do further research on the subject.  Thank you for your input.


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## marques (Oct 13, 2016)

Perhaps someone that knows your area may help you. Otherwise, the answer is always the same...
Who much time and money are you willing to spend? What options do you have? Then go there, one by one. And meet the instructor and observe the senior students. Visit also the schools that are not specifically 'systems of self-defense'. They also may have the answers you are looking for.

'Effective' is a very relative term, but It will take always some years.


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

Thank you.  If someone is familiar with this area that would be great.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 13, 2016)

domant said:


> 1. How long does it take to become effective? This question is not due to impatience or immaturity. I do not expect to be a "black belt" in a year by no means. However, my reality is I am 45 yrs old and am starting late in life. I do not want an art that will take 10 years to have a base line of effectiveness. That being said I plan to continue to learn throughout my lifetime.


Effectiveness is going to depend on how you train and your willingness to learn how to use the techniques during practice.  If you train with the purpose of self-defense and fighting then you can have a base line of effectiveness in about a year, provided that you train more than 3 times a week.  Practice, Practice, Practice .

I'm the fight instructor (for the lack of a better term) at my school and I'm responsible for making sure students know how to apply Jow Ga techniques in the context of self-defense. Most students that take the training serious will have a good base for fighting within a year. Provided that they attend the sparring classes which are once a week.  The ones that struggle are the ones that haven't learned how to trust the techniques.  In the classes it's not always about hitting, we discuss things like strategy, our body's natural reactions and responses, and things that help us understand what really goes on when fighting.  I'm not a big fan of self-defense seminars, but only because I know it takes more training than what the seminars will be able to provide.  But I do like that they discuss the methods and go into detail of how to apply them.  Your martial arts training should be similar to that, where there is some detailed discussion on application, fighting, and what really goes on.

If all the instructor does is put equipment on people and let them go at it, then your training for self-defense will be lacking. You'll need someone that can explain in detail how things work, how to set it up, and has an eye for analyzing your sparring. 

When you search for a school be sure to let the instructor know what you want to learn and how you want to be able to use it.  This will help the instructor know how to customize your training.


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

Thank you very much.  We have several Wing Chun/JKD schools in the area that I have been considering.  In your opinion, would these be similiar to Jow Ga Kung Fu?


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## frank raud (Oct 13, 2016)

I'd be looking at Filipino Martial Arts for something to become competent in relatively quickly.   Rister International Martial Arts seems to be a possibility.


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## Buka (Oct 13, 2016)

Welcome to MartialTalk, domant. (you old man, you!) Hope you enjoy it.

What might be the best way is to dedicate a little of your current time. (to save time down the road)
Check the closest Martial gyms to your home or work, drop in to each several times (as different nights tend to work on different things), Watch what's being done, watch how it applies to what you think the self defense you're looking for really is. Watch how it uses people actually fighting people, or training against active resistance. Spend a month doing this. It will be interesting to you, should be fun, too.

I'd try to include a boxing gym and a Brazilian Ju-jitsu gym among the others, but that's just my opinion as how it applies to self defense. It really depends on what you like and what's available to you, conveniently. And I say conveniently for a good reason. If you find a place you really like (to meet what you think your needs are) and it's forty minutes away, well, you know how life gets in the way of things.

Let us know how it goes as you explore. But go to a bunch of places and see.


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## lklawson (Oct 13, 2016)

domant said:


> I appreciate the feedback.  I have done and continue with the above.  I am an NRA instructor myself.  I am wanting to add to this as a firearm is not always an appropriate or necessary solution.  I do also appreciate and desire the lifelong study of a discipline as well.
> 
> Perhaps I do not have a clear understanding of the fullness of "martial."   Can you explain more?


From one NRA instructor to another, what you're looking for is usually not going to be served by one "traditional" martial art alone. From what you write about your experience, training background, and current fitness level, I'd recommend a combination of Judo and some RBSD ("Reality Based Self Defense") course.  The Judo will mesh well with your existing firearms training, particularly weapons retention and counters techniques.  It also gives you a great base for gun-buster signed locations.  RBSD isn't usually my first (or second, or third) choice for generic "weapons" work (knife, club, etc.) but most of the time it will also mesh well with your firearms and should usually fit OK with Judo.  One poster suggested Filipino Martial Arts (FMA).  Those will get you knife and stick pretty well, but I'm less of a fan of how they integrate with other arts.  Some styles of Silat integrate pretty well, but it's less commonly taught than FMA or, especially, Judo.  If you can find someone teaching the old WWII "Military Combatives" stuff for knife & stick (Applegate/Fairbairn/Sykes lineage), that would fit very well with your firearms training and also with Judo.

Judo also tends to be excellent for fitness.  You should also consider upping your run-n-gun drills.  Do maybe 20 min. of run-n-gun every other day.  Good for fitness.  If it's too time consuming or expensive to do run-n-gun at your range (believe me, I grok), try setting up a backyard "range" with BB guns, Pellet Guns, or Airsoft.  *MUCH* more affordable.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## domant (Oct 13, 2016)

Thank you guys so much.  Great direction.  I truly appreciate all the help.  I will take all the posts and visit several for a month or so.  Fortunately, Dallas has a lot of options so it should keep me pretty busy.  

Meanwhile, I will continue on my fitness goals.  Thank you all once again for taking the time to offer your experience.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 13, 2016)

domant said:


> Thank you guys so much.  Great direction.  I truly appreciate all the help.  I will take all the posts and visit several for a month or so.  Fortunately, Dallas has a lot of options so it should keep me pretty busy.
> 
> Meanwhile, I will continue on my fitness goals.  Thank you all once again for taking the time to offer your experience.


You may be able to quickly narrow your choices by deciding if fighting with weapons is required.  Not every school teaches weapons and not every school teaches weapons that you can actually walk around with.  Jow ga teaches a lot of weapons, but the one that I'll every really be able to walk around with is a staff (if I'm hiking or walking ) and double daggers in which I can use a knife.  Beyond that the swords and spears aren't going to be something that I carry around on a normal day.


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## drop bear (Oct 13, 2016)

We put people in the ring fighting full contact in 12weeks.

So if you wanted to get good enough fast.  Of of those sort of programs should work well for you.


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## Ironbear24 (Oct 13, 2016)

These sort of questions are tough to answer for a number of reasons, one of them being I do not know the places around you. Fortunately I can answer many the other questions and statements. In my opinion look for a good karate dojo or Judo club with a reputable background. No fighting art I ever heard of takes 10 years to be proficient in it, proficiency is a very abstract thing because you may be proficient against defending yourself against person A while person B you may not for a wide variety of reasons. 

The only objection I have to taking BJJ for self defense as Buka mentioned above is going to the ground is not always the safest option. The ground can have lots of debris or broken glass that can end up harming you, or the guys buddies can end up stomping you while you are wrestling them on the floor. With much of Judo you knock them off balance/throw them and well, gravity and the concrete does the rest of the work for you . 

Boxing can be good, but boxing mostly only prepares you to fight other boxers. In the end it is all up to you, there is no real wrong answer here as this is all just my opinion.


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## JowGaWolf (Oct 13, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> With much of Judo you knock them off balance/throw them and well, gravity and the concrete does the rest of the work for you


 This is why I like Shuai Jiao.  It's grappling but the focus is to put the opponent on the ground and not to go to the ground with them.

One of my favorite videos


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## KangTsai (Oct 14, 2016)

Tip: if you have a viable martial art place in your area, go give it a try. If you like it, keep going, because it clearly fits what you're trying to achieve. If this is purely for self-defence like you mentioned, I would gravitate toward grappling arts like judo or BJJ, but that's your judgement.

Also, believe it or not, the base line of skill needed to defend yourself against the average Joe or Jane is lower than you think.


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## Jenna (Oct 14, 2016)

domant said:


> Thank you guys so much.  Great direction.  I truly appreciate all the help.  I will take all the posts and visit several for a month or so.  Fortunately, Dallas has a lot of options so it should keep me pretty busy.
> 
> Meanwhile, I will continue on my fitness goals.  Thank you all once again for taking the time to offer your experience.


Hey good luck in finding something suitable.  Hope you stick around and let us know what happens


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## frank raud (Oct 14, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is why I like Shuai Jiao.  It's grappling but the focus is to put the opponent on the ground and not to go to the ground with them.
> 
> One of my favorite videos


"Rwanda Rousey"


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## wingchun100 (Oct 14, 2016)

Wing chun is an excellent option. I am biased because that is what I study, but then again...most martial artists will think their art is the best one. Otherwise, why wouldn't they study something else?


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## marques (Oct 14, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Also, believe it or not, the base line of skill needed to defend yourself against the average Joe or Jane is lower than you think.


It may be true, but do not be overconfident since often we do not know the intentions, determination and skill of that Joe...
Perhaps no training is also enough. Perhaps a few years training is still short... Prevention is king. Training is (for) fun.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 14, 2016)

Doment, there are Krav Maga scools in the DFW area. Also Judo schools. Both are compatible with Firearms.

FMA with WC/VT, is good as well.

Those are my picks for your situation.

Firearms training is big in Texas.
And no shortage of that in the DFW area.


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## domant (Oct 14, 2016)

Thank you all for the input.


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## wingchun100 (Oct 14, 2016)

marques said:


> It may be true, but do not be overconfident since often we do not know the intentions, determination and skill of that Joe...
> Perhaps no training is also enough. Perhaps a few years training is still short... Prevention is king. Training is (for) fun.


 
Well put.


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## wingchun100 (Oct 14, 2016)

In my mind, I think you should always train as if everyone is better, and you need to catch up. That way, you will always push yourself, instead of saying, "Well, I'm good enough."


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> If you want to quickly and efficiently learn how to protect yourself and what is personal to you, martial arts classes are not the way to do it.


That's an over-generalization.


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 14, 2016)

MI_martialist said:


> Look for tactical training, firearms training, improvised everyday carry training.
> 
> If you want a prolonged study of martial things, do the above and take martial classes.


So, you expect carrying a gun to take care of the full range of self-defense needs? I disagree rather vehemently with that. It's a weapon, and one you can't legally bring to bear in every self-defense situation. It's also dangerous to bring to bear in some situations. In my opinion, everyone carrying a gun should have some empty-hand training both for retention and to provide non-lethal alternatives.


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## wingchun100 (Oct 14, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> So, you expect carrying a gun to take care of the full range of self-defense needs? I disagree rather vehemently with that. It's a weapon, and one you can't legally bring to bear in every self-defense situation. It's also dangerous to bring to bear in some situations. In my opinion, everyone carrying a gun should have some empty-hand training both for retention and to provide non-lethal alternatives.


 
I wish I had known that before I shot that dude just because he spit in my face.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 14, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> I wish I had known that before I shot that dude just because he spit in my face.


 One dude let his shadow fall on my car, so I emptied a revolver in him


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## Jenna (Oct 14, 2016)

TSDTexan said:


> One dude let his shadow fall on my car, so I emptied a revolver in him


Hope you at least moved him away from your hood before you did, a full respray aint cheap


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## wingchun100 (Oct 14, 2016)

Jenna said:


> Hope you at least moved him away from your hood before you did, a full respray aint cheap


 
Yeah, because blood is a hell of a lot harder to remove than a shadow!


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## TSDTexan (Oct 14, 2016)

Jenna said:


> Hope you at least moved him away from your hood before you did, a full respray aint cheap



Naw, the fool decided to try and hide from me in a dumpster.


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## TSDTexan (Oct 14, 2016)

wingchun100 said:


> Yeah, because blood is a hell of a lot harder to remove than a shadow!


Remove blood? Why would you wanna do that?


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## WaterGal (Oct 14, 2016)

domant said:


> Thank you.  If someone is familiar with this area that would be great.



This forum has members from all around the world, so there probably won't be anyone from exactly your town that can give you advice. 

I'd recommend that you look around online and see what's in your area. If you find that there are 5 or 10 schools that are within a reasonable drive and have classes that fit your schedule, and you're not sure where to start, then post up some links on here and we can look at their websites.  There's only so much you can learn from a website, but people may be able to go "oh, that school is part of a chain that's known to be bad", or "that style is usually pretty good and the teacher's got good credentials" or "that place seems fishy and I think the teacher made up their rank" or whatever.


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## Hanzou (Oct 14, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The only objection I have to taking BJJ for self defense as Buka mentioned above is going to the ground is not always the safest option. The ground can have lots of debris or broken glass that can end up harming you, or the guys buddies can end up stomping you while you are wrestling them on the floor. With much of Judo you knock them off balance/throw them and well, gravity and the concrete does the rest of the work for you .



LoL! I thought we had heard the last of the broken glass and debris argument against ground fighting. Learning how to fight off your back and on the ground is invaluable for numerous reasons. Further any Bjj school worth its salt is going to teach you how to fight on your feet as well, so no worries there.

It also helps that there's some VERY good Bjj options in his area.


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## Ironbear24 (Oct 14, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> LoL! I thought we had heard the last of the broken glass and debris argument against ground fighting. Learning how to fight off your back and on the ground is invaluable for numerous reasons. Further any Bjj school worth its salt is going to teach you how to fight on your feet as well, so no worries there.
> 
> It also helps that there's some VERY good Bjj options in his area.



I attempted to summon you Hanzou, i gathered broken glass and cauliflower ears along with rash gaurds and a brazlian flag, not to mention a gi covered head to toe in patches and placed each object at the end of a five pointed star. The last step of was to make that post. And boom here you are. 

It worked.


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## Brian King (Oct 15, 2016)

@domant 
I have trained with Cash at various Systema events and can recommend him. His school is in Irving and you might want to check it out in your search.
The Academy Beverly Hills – Dallas – Systema – Boot Camp – Taekwondo – Girl's Self-Defense
Good luck in your search and travels.

Regards
Brian King


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## domant (Oct 20, 2016)

I appreciate the help and input.  I am going to go with a Krav Maga school for now.  It seems very well rounded and pulls from various systems.  The instructor staff is well experienced and has real life application that they can relate to.  It was a tough choice for me between this school and a Jeet Kune Do/Wing Chun/Kali school.  However, Krav seems less complex and I enjoy the school so far.  

Eventually, I expect to add some Judo depending how things progress at the Krav school.  I will continue to look at options in my area as I find them.  

Thanks again, for everyone's input.


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## Paul_D (Oct 20, 2016)

Bear in mind that hard (physical) skills are only one small piece of the cake that makes up effective self protection from non censeneual criminalviolence.  You will also need to learn the soft (non physical skills) such as Threat Awareness & Evaluation, Target Hardening, Verbal De-escalation, The Fence, familiarising youself with The Rituals of Violence and many other things.

As you are in the U.S.,  I would recommend the following:-
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Black-Book-Violence-Fighting/dp/1594391297


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## domant (Oct 20, 2016)

I will check it out.  THanks


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## TSDTexan (Oct 21, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> Bear in mind that hard (physical) skills are only one small piece of the cake that makes up effective self protection from non censeneual criminalviolence.  You will also need to learn the soft (non physical skills) such as Threat Awareness & Evaluation, Target Hardening, Verbal De-escalation, The Fence, familiarising youself with The Rituals of Violence and many other things.
> 
> As you are in the U.S.,  I would recommend the following:-
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Black-Book-Violence-Fighting/dp/1594391297



I highly recommend the fence. A really good book.
I have given away like 8 copies of that book by Geoff Thompson.

He is a working martial artist (bouncer) with a lot of physical encounters. 

Here is some of the material from the book in video form.


The Fence - Geoff Thompson - Clip 1 - YouTube

The Fence - Geoff Thompson - Clip 2 - YouTube


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## oaktree (Oct 21, 2016)

Dear original poster,
This question gets brought up a lot, in my opinion check out schools in your area that mesh well with what your ideal self defense is. Critique the applications being shown is it logical, could it be successfully done in a street application or doe it look like fluff?
Does the teacher blow smoke up your butt or does he seem to have a grasp of self defense. An art is only as good as the person teaching it, meaning as good as some reality based arts are, if the teacher teaching it isn't good then your will have difficulty acquiring the skill set needed in self defense.


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