# Fast Advancement



## Thelardking (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm a beginner in MA and I haven't looked into too many different styles.   I'm also looking for fast (Very fast) advancement since I need to apply to med school in a year and I wish to obtain an advanced belt (Brown?) in that time to pad my resume.  I'm athletic and solid built, and I learn movements (katas or techniques) quickly.  Is there a martial art that's suitable for fast advancement?  

I realize this question may come off as if I don't really take MA as an art form, but rather as a resume booster.  Reality is I do enjoy martial arts, and I know i'll keep taking it for years to come.  However, I need to meet my immediate goal as well, or at least give it my best shot.  Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


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## 14 Kempo (Dec 13, 2007)

You can get a brown belt on the Internet for anywhere from $2.95 to custom embroidered belts that can be more than $100 ... good luck!


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## SFC JeffJ (Dec 13, 2007)

Find something that you like and work your *** off would be my advice.

Jeff


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> You can get a brown belt on the Internet for anywhere from $2.95 to custom embroidered belts that can be more than $100 ... good luck!


 
you beat me to it.


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## CoryKS (Dec 13, 2007)

Fast advancement...  med school...  thanks, I'm going to have "Crash Course in Brain Surgery" running in my head for the rest of the day.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 13, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> You can get a brown belt on the Internet for anywhere from $2.95 to custom embroidered belts that can be more than $100 ... good luck!


 
and if you are REALLY in a hurry, ask them to Fed-Ex, for when it absolutely positively has to be there overnight...


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## Big Don (Dec 13, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I'm a beginner in MA and I haven't looked into too many different styles.   I'm also looking for fast (Very fast) advancement since I need to apply to med school in a year and I wish to obtain an advanced belt (Brown?) in that time to pad my resume.  I'm athletic and solid built, and I learn movements (katas or techniques) quickly.  Is there a martial art that's suitable for fast advancement?
> 
> I realize this question may come off as if I don't really take MA as an art form, but rather as a resume booster.  Reality is I do enjoy martial arts, and I know i'll keep taking it for years to come.  However, I need to meet my immediate goal as well, or at least give it my best shot.  Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


So you really aren't interested in quality? Where are you applying to med school, Third World U? Do me a favor and specialize in gynecology, that way your haphazard approach to life won't endanger me or my son. I am more than a little offended by your post. I started training three years ago and have worked my *** off. I am about two months away from testing for my Brown Belt and have invested thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours of practice both on the mat and at home, and literally, blood, sweat and tears. To hear someone ask how they can jump to Brown in a year is offensive to me.


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2007)

Well...there's probably a TKD school nearby with fast advancement.

Many Japanese weapons arts (e.g. iaido) have relatively fast advancement and are still quite legitimate.

Of course, I don't encourage you to make speed your criterion.


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## CoryKS (Dec 13, 2007)

On a more serious note, I've heard that Krav Maga has a rapid advancement rate.  Can anyone verify that?


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## MJS (Dec 13, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I'm a beginner in MA and I haven't looked into too many different styles. I'm also looking for fast (Very fast) advancement since I need to apply to med school in a year and I wish to obtain an advanced belt (Brown?) in that time to pad my resume. I'm athletic and solid built, and I learn movements (katas or techniques) quickly. Is there a martial art that's suitable for fast advancement?
> 
> I realize this question may come off as if I don't really take MA as an art form, but rather as a resume booster. Reality is I do enjoy martial arts, and I know i'll keep taking it for years to come. However, I need to meet my immediate goal as well, or at least give it my best shot. Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


 
Any school that offers fast advancement is a mcdojo IMHO.  Any school worth anything should ensure that the students are learning properly.  Learning the material should be the main concern, not the color of belt around your waist.

However, your best bet, IMO, would be to check out a Krav Maga school.  Now, I'm not saying that they're mcdojos, but the Krav material is easy, simple to learn, doesn't take much practice to retain and its effective.  Again, *I am not* saying, hinting or anything of that nature that KM is a bad art or that the schools suck.  I'm saying that it would probably be the best for you, given how busy you are saying you will be.

Mike


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## Empty Hands (Dec 13, 2007)

Invest in an MCAT training course.  It will do you more good on your resume than a McDojo brown belt.


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## Empty Hands (Dec 13, 2007)

Big Don said:


> I am about two months away from testing for my Brown Belt and have invested thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours of practice both on the mat and at home, and literally, blood, sweat and tears.



You know Don, you and I have clashed a lot in the politics threads, so I would like to take this opportunity to say that I really respect you for this.  Politics are politics, but true martial artists are always to be respected.


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## Brandon Fisher (Dec 13, 2007)

Brown in 1 year not in my dojo or any of my friends dojos.  Come on that is not even a logical thing there is so much more to learn than just movements and katas.  There is so much depth and precision.  I like the example of a crash course in brain surgery its about the same thing.  Find another way to make yourself look good quick because my guess is it should have been a priority before now.  I know you didn't just jump up and decide to go to medical school.  You could have trained in the martial arts during undergrad and possibly made it to black over the 4 years if anything at least a legitimate brown belt.


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## Laurentkd (Dec 13, 2007)

While I agree with everyone here that fast advancement is not what you should care about, I might have one idea.  Look into getting private lessons.  I know that one on one time with my instructor gives me a chance to learn and improve on material much faster than in group lessons.  If you did a couple private lessons a week and then worked your tail off on your own, you could obtain SOME amount of proficiency in a year.  Nothing compares to the hours and hours investment over years, but you would be better off with private lessons for a year than group lessons.

Another thing to think about- putting that are you "brown belt" in X martial art in a resume won't really mean anything to the people reading it.  Most people know that white belt is first and black belt is last and don't know anything in between (and even those "facts" aren't entirely correct).  What I am saying is, if you put you are a green belt or a purple belt or even a polka dot belt they won't know the difference.  Instead just put X martial art down as one of your hobbies and find a way to explain the benefits that you receive from it in an essay or interview question (perseverance, respect, etc... whatever you actually gain over your year of training).
Hope this helps!


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## Kacey (Dec 13, 2007)

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.  As with many others here, I find your attitude toward getting rank quickly to "pad your resume" troublesome, at best; what your attitude bespeaks about your ethics - especially in someone who wants to practice medicine - I find to be highly disturbing.  I sincerely hope that whomever is reviewing your application knows enough about martial arts to recognize that the time frame and the rank are not synchronized, should you actually meet this goal you have set for yourself.

If you want to advance quickly in a serious school, you will need to find a school where the instructor has the time - and the willingness - to provide private lessons so that you can progress more quickly.  You will need to be very up-front with the instructor about your goal and the reason for it; however, I suspect that most instructors worth training with will be unwilling to fast-track you for the reason you give.

If you are willing - as it sounds that you are - to attend a school that is less serious, check your local phone book and newspaper; schools that are more interested in your money than in your actual proficiency (i.e., those commonly referred to as "McDojos") will be apparent from their advertising, which often includes the words "contract", "quick advancement", and "guaranteed to reach 'X' rank in 'Y' timeframe", or similar phrases.


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## Big Don (Dec 13, 2007)

I've worked, as I stated for three years to get to where I am, and if it takes 10 more to earn my Black Belt, I am fine with that. Quality takes time, I am in no hurry.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 13, 2007)

Big Don said:


> So you really aren't interested in quality? Where are you applying to med school, Third World U? *Do me a favor and specialize in gynecology, that way your haphazard approach to life won't endanger me or my son. *I am more than a little offended by your post. I started training three years ago and have worked my *** off. I am about two months away from testing for my Brown Belt and have invested thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours of practice both on the mat and at home, and literally, blood, sweat and tears. To hear someone ask how they can jump to Brown in a year is offensive to me.


While I'm not a woman I found the *bold sentence* inappropriate. In a way I can see what you're saying Don, but there would've been a better way to go about it. Basically it's saying it's ok to screw up with women than it is with men. 

I agree that Thelardking should be more concerned with quality of his MA training than the speed of it.  There are Martial Artists on this forum that have spent YEARS getting the rank/belts that they now hold and to have someone wanting to achieve that in a quick way just to "pad their resume" is not cool. Your "busting your ***" to get your brown is worth applauding. The gynecology comment is not. Sorry, but even as a man I was offended by it. 
:asian:


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## Big Don (Dec 13, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> While I'm not a woman I found the *bold sentence* inappropriate. In a way I can see what you're saying Don, but there would've been a better way to go about it. Basically it's saying it's ok to screw up with women than it is with men.
> 
> I agree that Thelardking should be more concerned with quality of his MA training than the speed of it.  There are Martial Artists on this forum that have spent YEARS getting the rank/belts that they now hold and to have someone wanting to achieve that in a quick way just to "pad their resume" is not cool. Your "busting your ***" to get your brown is worth applauding. The gynecology comment is not. Sorry, but even as a man I was offended by it.
> :asian:


My apologies to anyone offended by the comment, it was the only field of medicine I could think of that will never impact me or my son. I suppose I should have said forensic pathology, but, that wasn't what popped into my head at the time.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 13, 2007)

Big Don said:


> My apologies to anyone offended by the comment, it was the only field of medicine I could think of that will never impact me or my son. I suppose I should have said forensic pathology, but, that wasn't what popped into my head at the time.


No worries... I suffer from foot-n-mouth disease myself from time to time. Just ask anyone here!  

I'm sure the ladies (here) will appreciate your apology. :asian:


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## Big Don (Dec 13, 2007)

MA-Caver said:


> No worries... I suffer from foot-n-mouth disease myself from time to time. Just ask anyone here!
> 
> I'm sure the ladies (here) will appreciate your apology. :asian:


Yeah, but now Jack Klugman will hate me...


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## MA-Caver (Dec 13, 2007)

Big Don said:


> Yeah, but now Jack Klugman will hate me...


He'd have to get in line behind Archie Bunker too.


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## terryl965 (Dec 13, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I'm a beginner in MA and I haven't looked into too many different styles. I'm also looking for fast (Very fast) advancement since I need to apply to med school in a year and I wish to obtain an advanced belt (Brown?) in that time to pad my resume. I'm athletic and solid built, and I learn movements (katas or techniques) quickly. Is there a martial art that's suitable for fast advancement?
> 
> I realize this question may come off as if I don't really take MA as an art form, but rather as a resume booster. Reality is I do enjoy martial arts, and I know i'll keep taking it for years to come. However, I need to meet my immediate goal as well, or at least give it my best shot. Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


 

First off let me say this with a very sincere face, This will not look good on a resume to med school, you might as well just go to Mc Donalds for a year start out as a cook and move to a swift manager. *It will mean the same thing nothing. MA is not going to make or break your entry to Med school. Take that time and voleenteer at a hospital or a homeless shelter, it would so much better.*


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## Christina05 (Dec 13, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> You can get a brown belt on the Internet for anywhere from $2.95 to custom embroidered belts that can be more than $100 ... good luck!



I was just thinking the same thing. But honestly You got to train train and train some more good luck.....


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## Flying Crane (Dec 13, 2007)

who, exactly, are you trying to impress with said resume?  And why do you think having "brown belt" on your resume would impress your targeted audience?


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## stone_dragone (Dec 13, 2007)

If you PM me, I can send you a copy of my curriculum and you can work on it at home, at your own pace.  Even though I require students to progress through all levels (9 kyu levels - brown starts at 3rd kyu, though), with a $150 RA (rapid advancement) fee per each beginner level (mukyu, 9th kyu, 8th kyu and 7th kyu), $250 RA fee per each intermediate level (6th kyu, 5th kyu and 4th kyu) plus distance testing fees ($50 per test for each of the seven levels from 9th kyu to 3rd kyu) I think that we may be able to provide you with that resume padding if that is truly your wish. 

When you are comfortable, video yourself performing the 3rd kyu material (some is with a partner, it should be clear to someone going to med school which ones) and send the test to me.  I will then forward you your belt and certificate after I see that you have passed the material with at least an 80%.

For ease of payment, I prefer to use Paypal with fees paid upfront.

Let me know, Doc...


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## Empty Hands (Dec 13, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> And why do you think having "brown belt" on your resume would impress your targeted audience?



In his (limited) defense, med school admission committees have gotten ridiculous about this sort of stuff in the past 10-15 years.  A stellar MCAT score will still do you more good than anything else, but BS activities and hobbies still have their effect.  Besides raw intellectual horsepower, the schools are now looking for "well rounded" individuals with "life experience".  What does being on the debate club have to do with being a good doctor?  Exactly nothing, and it leads to the kind of nonsense gaming of the system we are seeing here.

What is happening now is that most fresh-out-of-college applicants are being turned down, no matter how good their qualifications.   After a few years and a few BS lines on their resume, their chances of getting in increase.  I've personally seen dozens of students come through our labs and play scientist for a year to beef up their med school applications.

Of course, since I am involved in teaching these fine individuals once they get in, I won't frighten you with stories of the intellectual acumen of our future health care professionals.


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## thardey (Dec 13, 2007)

I hear Mr. Miagi is training . . . do some chores for him for a couple of months, and he may give you a black belt in time for the All-valley tournament!


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## thardey (Dec 13, 2007)

Or you can post over 400 times on Martial Talk, then you can be a brown belt just like me!

(BTW, my system doesn't even have brown belts -- we use red instead. Something to make sure of if you sign up. But I think "red belt" sound cooler on a resume than "brown belt" anyway, but that's just me.)


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## Big Don (Dec 13, 2007)

thardey said:


> I hear Mr. Miagi is training . . . do some chores for him for a couple of months, and he may give you a black belt in time for the All-valley tournament!


"On Okinawa, belt mean, no need rope to hold up pants."
And as an added bonus, he'll beat up those Cobra Kai bullies for you.


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## Carol (Dec 13, 2007)

I'd suggest finding a more competent med school advisor.


:BSmeter:


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## jks9199 (Dec 13, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I'm a beginner in MA and I haven't looked into too many different styles. I'm also looking for fast (Very fast) advancement since I need to apply to med school in a year and I wish to obtain an advanced belt (Brown?) in that time to pad my resume. I'm athletic and solid built, and I learn movements (katas or techniques) quickly. Is there a martial art that's suitable for fast advancement?
> 
> I realize this question may come off as if I don't really take MA as an art form, but rather as a resume booster. Reality is I do enjoy martial arts, and I know i'll keep taking it for years to come. However, I need to meet my immediate goal as well, or at least give it my best shot. Thanks in advance for any help or advice!


 


Empty Hands said:


> In his (limited) defense, med school admission committees have gotten ridiculous about this sort of stuff in the past 10-15 years. A stellar MCAT score will still do you more good than anything else, but BS activities and hobbies still have their effect. Besides raw intellectual horsepower, the schools are now looking for "well rounded" individuals with "life experience". What does being on the debate club have to do with being a good doctor? Exactly nothing, and it leads to the kind of nonsense gaming of the system we are seeing here.
> 
> What is happening now is that most fresh-out-of-college applicants are being turned down, no matter how good their qualifications. After a few years and a few BS lines on their resume, their chances of getting in increase. I've personally seen dozens of students come through our labs and play scientist for a year to beef up their med school applications.
> 
> Of course, since I am involved in teaching these fine individuals once they get in, I won't frighten you with stories of the intellectual acumen of our future health care professionals.


 
Well... the second post here sort of seems to answer the first question I had.  But I'll throw it at the OP anyway.

How do you think that dabbling for a year, even if you did reach relatively high rank, will be impressive on your applications?  It still only shows one year of work at something.  (Last time I looked, med school was several three or four years, followed by a minimum of 3 or 4 years of internship.)  While it does show some work and dedication, and maybe (depending greatly on the school) some mental and physical toughness and drive... it's a long way from proving your capability at learning.  Especially something that balances the demands of recall, recognition, application, and adaptation that medicine does.

If you think having martial arts training for a year will look good -- drop the concern on having a particular belt ranking in a given time.  Focus on finding a school that will teach you as much as you can learn in that time, instead.  And, if you really mean to stick with it, one that will hold your interest over the years.  

If you're just looking to show that you can learn something in a year... why not try a foreign language (probably more useful, anyway) or a musical instrument?

Anymore, there are so many black belt mills out there now that you probably can find one that will get you a brown belt in a year.  But it'll be worth exactly what you pay and put into it -- and it won't be the same as one that takes several years to obtain.  And... they've cheapened what a black belt means.  Once, even a first degree black belt was seen as a major accomplishment.  Today... there are 5 and 6 year old "black belts."


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 13, 2007)

I know a little about this first hand:

FYI I know of at least one person who when interviewing for residency positions after medical school had three things circled on their resume by the interviewee.  One was unbelievable MCAT scores and unbelievable overall grades in Mecial School and the other was that they participated in martial arts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Of course this said person was a real martial artist and not trying to pad their resume and they had not only the ability to demonstrate that but also the ability to talk about what they knew! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I also know of one person with similar results when applying to medical school!

However, in the end it does come down to your grades and MCAT scores.  I would advise putting the block of your time into having unbelievable MCAT scores.  Who knows maybe you will get a free full scholarship if your MCAT scores are unbelieveable. (I know of at least one person who received this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> who, exactly, are you trying to impress with said resume? And why do you think having "brown belt" on your resume would impress your targeted audience?


 
Twice now, in the same post, someone has beat me to it


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## Thelardking (Dec 14, 2007)

I knew this would be a VERY controversial topic, and I'm glad so many people cared enough to reply.  Thanx to all who replied.  For those who cared enough to suggest an art, ur recommendations are much appreciated.  For those who lectured about ethics, i accept your views fully.  I realize MA takes work and persistence.  Your point about the ranking as a show of dedication and persistence, yet not taking the time and preparation to learn it properly is actually the antithesis of those qualities, is also a very valid point, and it would be very ethically questionable for me to state that on my resume.  I cannot agree more.

I believe advancement should be a reflection of my dedication and talent, and my mastery of the art, but not a function of the length of time in the art.  If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt.  But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?  

My hope is that someone can point me to a some options such that I can achieve this impossible goal, or at least get as close to it as i can.


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## Thelardking (Dec 14, 2007)

the other comment that I think i should clear up, is that I have a good mcat score and GPA, not superbly high, but well above average.  So it comes down to my CV that'll determine WHICH med school i get into.  And of course, like any logical person, I would prefer it to be as strong as possible.  Given MA is something that I enjoy doing, so naturally I wish to excel in it and be recognized for doing that.  Again, I'm not looking for a shortcut (which after I read my initial comment, really sounds like the implied question).  No shortcut, but there must be a MA that's both respectable and easy enough to learn such that given enough dedication, i can achieve something above a purple in a year's time.


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## MJS (Dec 14, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I knew this would be a VERY controversial topic, and I'm glad so many people cared enough to reply. Thanx to all who replied. For those who cared enough to suggest an art, ur recommendations are much appreciated. For those who lectured about ethics, i accept your views fully. I realize MA takes work and persistence. Your point about the ranking as a show of dedication and persistence, yet not taking the time and preparation to learn it properly is actually the antithesis of those qualities, is also a very valid point, and it would be very ethically questionable for me to state that on my resume. I cannot agree more.
> 
> I believe advancement should be a reflection of my dedication and talent, and my mastery of the art, but not a function of the length of time in the art. If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt. But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?
> 
> My hope is that someone can point me to a some options such that I can achieve this impossible goal, or at least get as close to it as i can.


 
Well, as I always say, its not the color or the stripes on your belt that matters, its how well you know the material and how well you can make it work.  If you need to use your skills, the belt isn't going to do the fighting for you.  Who cares how long it takes to get a black belt.  Focus on getting solid material..worry about rank later.  When it comes, it comes.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt. But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?
> [\quote]
> 
> Actually no


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## IWishToLearn (Dec 14, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> You can get a brown belt on the Internet for anywhere from $2.95 to custom embroidered belts that can be more than $100 ... good luck!


LOL!


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## Brandon Fisher (Dec 14, 2007)

I am not sure you truly understand the way ranking happens.  There is time in grade requirements now under black they are a little more relaxed but doing about 3 - 4 years of work in a year is not that logical.  I don't care how athletic you are some style may seem simple at the beginning but become quite difficult with out taking the time to learn the basics very well and precise basics don't come together over night no matter how athletic you are.  I think you should get in a school you like and learn as much as you can and whatever rank you are in a year than thats what you put into your resume along with the time you spent to EARN that rank.


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## MJS (Dec 14, 2007)

I was always amazed when I'd teach someone a new technique.  They'd do it and always look for something else.  I'd tell them to keep working on it, and you could see the frustration in their eyes.  After a while of having them work the tech., I'd ask to see it and sure enough, they did it no problem.  Then I'd have them partner up with someone else, or myself and have them do it.  Thats when you could see the flaws in the moves.  

So, the moral of the story is...they worked hard and thought they knew everything cold, but in reality they didn't.   Just because someone shows up 3 times a week, isnt a guarentee that they're going to advance quick.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2007)

Old story but I like to throw it out were applicable



> A young man went to visit an old master, looking to train under him. When he met with the master, the man said to him "I wish to train under you and become a great master. How long must I train?". The Master replied "10 years". The man thought for a moment, then said "10 years is a long time, what if I train twice as hard as your other students. How long must I train then?". The Master then replied "20 years". The man then exclaimed "20 years!? What if I train every day and night as hard as I can?". The Master then replied "30 years". The man, dumbfounded by this, asked "Why is it every time I say I will train harder, you say it will take longer?", and with that, the Master replied "Because if you have one eye fixed on a goal, then you have only one eye left with which to seek the way".


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## stone_dragone (Dec 14, 2007)

I was going to look for that one but you beat me to it!


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 14, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I knew this would be a VERY controversial topic, and I'm glad so many people cared enough to reply. Thanx to all who replied. For those who cared enough to suggest an art, ur recommendations are much appreciated. For those who lectured about ethics, i accept your views fully. I realize MA takes work and persistence. Your point about the ranking as a show of dedication and persistence, yet not taking the time and preparation to learn it properly is actually the antithesis of those qualities, is also a very valid point, and it would be very ethically questionable for me to state that on my resume. I cannot agree more.
> 
> I believe advancement should be a reflection of my dedication and talent, and my mastery of the art, but not a function of the length of time in the art. If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt. But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?
> 
> My hope is that someone can point me to a some options such that I can achieve this impossible goal, or at least get as close to it as i can.


 

You first post in this thread showed no maturity at all. This post that is quoted is a little better. 

Time.

Training time.
Class Time.
Learning Time.
Teaching Time.

They all mean different things. 

I have been training for 22+ Years. Does this mean I have been working out every minute of ever day? Nope. But I have the knowledge to talk a good game and to walk and carry myself with what I present. 

Working tens harder at math (* i.e. ten times more problems *) but still doing the it the wrong way does not make you better or derserving. 

Putting the cake into the oven at 450 Degrees F will have it cook, but putting it in at 1350 Deg F will not make it cook three times faster. It make be "COOKED" but it will not be edible or presentable or usable. 

Working hard at home and doing well can get you to be better. It can also get the instructor to teach you more if you actually grasp it.


I am not sure about whom to reccomend to get you your rank in that time period. I do not hang out with those that would do this. 

Good Luck


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## Kacey (Dec 14, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt.  But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?



As others have said... no.  In addition to the physical skills, there must be an understanding of what you are doing, and why - and that takes much longer than the physical skills to develop.  Spending more time in practice _can_ accelerate the process - but often it doesn't, as in the story Xue Sheng posted above, and even when it does, it won't accelerate the process the way you seem to be hoping.

If you want something that will look good on you resume, then instead of worrying about your rank, find something where you can _help_ people - volunteer work, perhaps.  If you want to improve your MA skills at the same time, then I would suggest seeing if you can help instruct; even at your stated rank of yellow belt, you could help with a kids' class, and as you advance (if you do) you can help with anyone junior to yourself.  In addition, teaching someone else a skill does much more for your  understanding how to perform it and apply it correctly than anything else.

Again, as has been said - no one who reads your resume is likely to be impressed by any rank below black belt (if that) unless they have experience in MA of some type, at which point they're likely to be wary of anyone who advanced too quickly.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 14, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Old story but I like to throw it out were applicable


 
yup, now ya beat ME to it  :rofl:


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## morph4me (Dec 14, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Old story but I like to throw it out were applicable


 

I was trying to find that story myself, I'm glad someone posted it.


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## shesulsa (Dec 14, 2007)

Well ... I'd agree with the volunteer service, though interestingly enough, community service is becoming old hat with many admittance committees.

Look ... if you wanna wow them with something - find a need in the community, get funding and carry out a service project that vastly improves a needy faction.  There are *plenty* of opportunities to volunteer.

If you don't want the hassle and just want to attend a belt factory, then find a TKD or non-specific Karate school who has monthly gradings, join, and see how high you can get.  But do us all a favor ... recognize what you're really doing it for and don't pretend to be more than what you are - the purchaser of a belt.

Perhaps you'd do better to find a *good* school or a *good* teacher, learn what you can when you can and present to your admissions board that you didn't *want* to attend a McDojo, that the quality of your knowledge was more important to you than rank.  If that's the truth, then do that.  If it's not, there's not a person here who will stop you from doing what you want to do.

Here's an idea:  How about a free female medical care clinic for displaced mothers?  Think you can find a way to get that going at the YWCA in your area?  Provide free STI screenings, PAP smears, etcetera? 

How about a free health expo for displaced moms and their kids where they can get some free sample vitamins, cold meds, etcetera?

Got a halfway house nearby? Sure you do. How about a professional clothing drive so these women can get decent jobs that will help them progress?  Typing skills, computer skills?  Skills evaluation for career placement?

How about the VFW in your area?  They *always* have something you can do.

You know, around the holiday season, places like these get oodles of stuff ... but few people remember them in summer.  How about a summertime drive?

Whatever you decide, good luck.


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## thardey (Dec 14, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> the other comment that I think i should clear up, is that I have a good mcat score and GPA, not superbly high, but well above average.  So it comes down to my CV that'll determine WHICH med school i get into.  And of course, like any logical person, I would prefer it to be as strong as possible.  Given MA is something that I enjoy doing, so naturally I wish to excel in it and be recognized for doing that.  Again, I'm not looking for a shortcut (which after I read my initial comment, really sounds like the implied question).  No shortcut, but there must be a MA that's both respectable and easy enough to learn such that given enough dedication, i can achieve something above a purple in a year's time.



First, I do appreciate that you did come back and keep posting, and to clear things up. To me, that shows that your are serious about your question, and able to take some answers that you may not like. Many people would have gotten frustrated and started ranting.

Next, please don't think of us as a bunch of "Martial arts elitists." It's not that people here are trying to discourage you from meeting a goal, it's that we're trying to point out that maybe your goal could use a little more thinking. Look at some of the posts again, and you'll see things that basically amount to "find an art that you can do for a lifetime." If training very hard for a year is your plan to achieve this "impossible goal", then realize that you're talking to people who've trained very hard for many years. We're actually challenging you to raise your goal, and make it long-term.

Third, Martial Arts are unique, in that there is more to any style than what you run into in athletics. For most sports, if you are naturally coordinated, fairly healthy, and have a healthy dose of that mysterious "other", you could become a "brown belt" level athlete is something like tennis, golf, volleyball, or whatever you want. If you take a year and do nothing but study that sport, you can improve very rapidly. 

However, in Martial Arts, you're dealing with a different animal entirely. It's a whole new system of movement, like learning to walk all over again. What experience you bring into it can't be applied until all that has been de-programmed. You have to be stripped of what you know, and re-wire your muscle memory from scratch. During this phase you can't "train hard" or you will not be able to strip those bad habits (bad for M.A., fine for tennis), but will cement them into a bad mixture of old and new. 

For the first year or two, it is better to "train softly" until your mind can re-program your movements. It's more like rehab than sports. That just takes time, and there's no way to rush it. The more experience you have with other sports (other than, in my experience, dancing or fencing), the longer it will take. That's why kids pick it up so fast, they don't have to unlearn very much, they can go to the next phase quickly.

The next phase is to start re-programming your body to move in a more efficient way. Our bodies are remarkably bad at moving well. We're constantly working against ourselves, and moving in the least efficient way possible that still functions. This is the part where you can begin to work "hard", as in the more time you put into it, the faster you will progress. But if you push it, for instance, try to be "fast" without really learning what that means, -- I mean, "moving faster" doesn't really get you anywhere -- then you've got to deprogram that bit all over again. That's what a lot of martial arts is -- deprogramming and reprogramming. There just isn't a way to rush it, in terms of overall time. 

That's why working twice as hard doesn't mean you'll advance twice as fast. It would be more like working hard at religion. The more you force it, the more important stuff you'll miss.

If that seems strange to you, then remember that "Martial Arts" carries more weight on a resume than sports. This may be part of the reason why. It takes a different type of learning skill.

Now, there is another option. You mentioned getting past "purple belt." I'm not sure if you realize how arbitrary that goal is. In my style, purple is the mark for the 6-9 month stage of training. It goes like this, assuming you aren't held for some reason. 

First year: 1-3 Mo. White; 3-6 Mo. Yellow; 6-9 Mo. Purple, 9-12 Mo. Orange.

Second year: 1-6 Mo. 2 levels of blue. 6-12 Mo. 2 levels of green.

Third year: 1-3 Mo. 1 more level of green. 3-18 Mo. Various levels of red.

We don't use brown, but use red instead. But after 1 year, you can be a blue belt, and there's nothing wrong with putting "Blue Belt" on your resume. 

BTW, this style is called Chun-kuk-do, run by the United Fighting Arts Federation. you can find more about it here: www.ufaf.org

It's well within the huge branch of "Karate." If that is what you're looking for.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 14, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Well ... I'd agree with the volunteer service, though interestingly enough, community service is becoming old hat with many admittance committees.
> 
> Look ... if you wanna wow them with something - find a need in the community, get funding and carry out a service project that vastly improves a needy faction. There are *plenty* of opportunities to volunteer.
> 
> ...


 

SheSulsa has lots of good ideas here. 

My Neighbor in an apartment below me years ago, was a woman who worked as a massage specialist.   But she always sponsored/worked/donated to a large Thanksgiving dinner for the homeless in the area. Even she found something very worth while to volunteer her time and also get newspaper and media coverage. Of course she got most of it after a couple of years, but you may never know. 

Helping others is good. I hope that is why you choose to be a doctor and maybe this is a way to get something for your resume as well.


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## shesulsa (Dec 14, 2007)

thardey said:


> First, I do appreciate that you did come back and keep posting, and to clear things up. To me, that shows that your are serious about your question, and able to take some answers that you may not like. Many people would have gotten frustrated and started ranting.


I concur and it's why I took my time to reply.

I want to expand a little on what I typed earlier:


shesulsa said:


> Perhaps you'd do better to find a *good* school or a *good* teacher, learn what you can when you can and present to your admissions board that you didn't *want* to attend a McDojo, that the quality of your knowledge was more important to you than rank.  If that's the truth, then do that.  If it's not, there's not a person here who will stop you from doing what you want to do.



More often than not, the admissions board who ask to see a high rank in martial arts on your resume likely don't have anyone on it with this experience.  But whether they do or not ... it wouldn't be far-fetched to seek council with martial arts experience in your area who could speak with you seriously about rank, its relative value, the overall direction of martial arts today and how these would influence your decision on where to train.  If this person (a master or higher) is a good one and is serious, he would have no problem writing some kind of letter describing the status of these things in the MA World for you to submit with your decision should you decide to train seriously and not ... ah ... rankingly.  Heck, you might find such a one or three right here on MartialTalk!

I'd also put my reputation (heh - such as it is) on the line and say that any master who did this for you shouldn't charge you a doggone penny if s/he is an artist worthy of writing the letter.  

But again, this is on the chance that you want to train to learn, not to get a pretty color around your hips.  And should you find someone you want to train with, that person would make a decision on whether or not to write you a letter of recommendation.


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## Em MacIntosh (Dec 14, 2007)

It can be done.  Hell, you could _*earn* _a black belt in a year _*if* _you put in five hours minimum, every day, rain or shine, eat, sleep and drink it but you don't strike me as the "chuck norris" type.  The effort must be made.  If you are willing to make that herculean effort you're compressing four to eight years into one.  Prepare to sweat and *BUST YOUR **** or you might as well buy a belt and get a sokeydokey certificate.


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## charyuop (Dec 14, 2007)

stone_dragone said:


> If you PM me, I can send you a copy of my curriculum and you can work on it at home, at your own pace. Even though I require students to progress through all levels (9 kyu levels - brown starts at 3rd kyu, though), with a $150 RA (rapid advancement) fee per each beginner level (mukyu, 9th kyu, 8th kyu and 7th kyu), $250 RA fee per each intermediate level (6th kyu, 5th kyu and 4th kyu) plus distance testing fees ($50 per test for each of the seven levels from 9th kyu to 3rd kyu) I think that we may be able to provide you with that resume padding if that is truly your wish.
> 
> When you are comfortable, video yourself performing the 3rd kyu material (some is with a partner, it should be clear to someone going to med school which ones) and send the test to me. I will then forward you your belt and certificate after I see that you have passed the material with at least an 80%.
> 
> ...


 
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????:rpo: :sniper:




If not can you send me the total? I know how to use Paypal 




Oh btw, I stand in line too. As soon as I read his willing to work harder I thought about that story about the student willing to study harder and harder...but too many beat me to it LOL (must be a very well known story in MA world LOL).


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## exile (Dec 14, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Well ... I'd agree with the volunteer service, though interestingly enough, community service is becoming old hat with many admittance committees.
> 
> Look ... if you wanna wow them with something - find a need in the community, get funding and carry out a service project that vastly improves a needy faction.  There are *plenty* of opportunities to volunteer.
> 
> ...



Terrific suggestions, Shesulsa... IOU rep once you cycle off my current stack! 

To my way of thinking, any medical school admissions board worth its salt is going to be far more responsive to this sort of thing, _far_ more, than to a middling-advanced colored belt in a MA. Having hobbies you pursue seriously was a bit of a novelty as a `CV item' back in the early 1960s, when my class was applying to university; it's become unbelievably passé at this point. If you want to score points that way, you have to be a Power in the activities you cite. You do ballet? Fine, what municipal dance company are you the prima ballerina for? You're a serious chess player? Great, what's your International Master ranking? The truth is, no one is going to make an impact anymore with this sort of thing, because _everyone_ can display two pages or more of the same kind of activity. It's a buyers' market in the professions, and a very limited number of places.

What _will_ impress your med school admissions committee is evidence that they have another Albert Schweitzer or Johann Olav Koss in the making on their hands. Real effort, earnest effort aimed at crying needs&#8212;_that_ will get their attention. Why? Because so few people do it, or have ever done it. The kinds of project Shesulsa has outlined are not glamorous, but they aim to bring help to those who need it most, the most vulnerable members of society with the fewest resources, and at greatest risk. That sort of activity, well publicized, is something the medical profession needs a bit more of. People are rather cynical about anæsthesiologists, radiologists and cardio surgeons with seven-figure a year practices. Koss brought glory both to Olympic athletics and to medicine when he left competition at the very top of his game to make high-quality medical services available without charge to the poorest of Africa's poor. Something to think about, eh?


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## Laurentkd (Dec 14, 2007)

shesulsa said:


> Well ... I'd agree with the volunteer service, though interestingly enough, community service is becoming old hat with many admittance committees.
> 
> Look ... if you wanna wow them with something - find a need in the community, get funding and carry out a service project that vastly improves a needy faction. There are *plenty* of opportunities to volunteer...
> 
> ...


 
Shesulsa hit it right on here.  My brother didn't get into his med school of choice the first time around (with average grades and above average MCAT).  Then he spent a year volunteering at a women's shelter and got early acceptance the following year.  And I know several others with the same story.  It is these types of activities that will make the difference, not a "brown belt".


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## Nomad (Dec 14, 2007)

thardey said:


> Look at some of the posts again, and you'll see things that basically amount to "find an art that you can do for a lifetime." If training very hard for a year is your plan to achieve this "impossible goal", then realize that you're talking to people who've trained very hard for many years. We're actually challenging you to raise your goal, and make it long-term.
> 
> Third, Martial Arts are unique, in that there is more to any style than what you run into in athletics. For most sports, if you are naturally coordinated, fairly healthy, and have a healthy dose of that mysterious "other", you could become a "brown belt" level athlete is something like tennis, golf, volleyball, or whatever you want. If you take a year and do nothing but study that sport, you can improve very rapidly.
> 
> ...


 
Very well put.  It certainly holds true for my training so far (6 years and counting, recently promoted to Shodan, and still have sooooo much to learn); a constant cycle of deprogramming and reprogramming...  

The martial arts also have an incredible depth to them, and it's possible to find new revelations (applications, body mechanics, timing, etc.) in the simplest moves or kata that you've known for years.  One of my instructors claims to still be "figuring out" the first kata taught and coming up with new stuff after 30+ years of training.

After one year, you can only pick up a very superficial understanding of any of the martial arts, and at a reputable school this is usually reflected in the relatively low rank associated with it.  As stated by others, training harder isn't going to aid much in gaining any depth.


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## stone_dragone (Dec 14, 2007)

charyuop said:


> ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????:rpo: :sniper:
> If not can you send me the total? I know how to use Paypal



By my math it would cost $1650 for a piece of paper that one could use to pad his resume or wipe his *** with, either way, we're both happy...I get the money and he gets a valuable lesson - nothing worth having is easy.

The offer's still on the table but it seems that the OP'er has seen the error of his ways and for that I congratulate him!


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## terryl965 (Dec 14, 2007)

Sgesulsa your two post was just outstanding and when I recycle IOU reps for both of them.


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## Thelardking (Dec 15, 2007)

WOW! This is quite an amazing community in that so many people responded and viewed this post. Thanks to you all.

I do volunteer work at hospitals, and I am in the army reserves. So I have some physical training and I know that I like the medical profession. Volunteering, like someone previously said, is quickly becoming tedious, since everyone who's ever attempted med school since the beginning of time has done thousands of hours of it. To stand out, often people take extraordinary steps, and MA, as I have been led to believe, is one of those obscure niches still uncommon enough to garner an extra look at the old resume. 

I agree with the thought that mastering the art isn't directly proportional to time spent. At some point, there has to be diminishing returns. Roasting a chicken 10 times hotter just burns the chicken. Can't say i disagree with the analogy, and i accept that I can't do it in 1 year. Although I am still certain that some arts do offer faster transfer of knowledge through more efficient techniques and teachings. After all, martial arts are diverse and no two are created equal.

Not to beat the point to death, but if I were to purchase a belt, I wouldn't have even bothered writing this post, and in the process arouse much anger among the community. I would've just went and bought it. The question I would've posted would be "where can i buy a ranking? or who's willing to certify me for a fee?", rather than which art can train me faster. I feel much of the attack was on me shortcutting, and the feeling of disgust at the cheapening of the value of hard work. I understand that and I regret that my previous statement came through as such.

In conclusion, I must restate that I am looking for the fastest art for the proper transfer of knowledge.  Kenpo, as i am currently being trained, seems rather slow, with testing every 2 months even if you master the techniques and katas.


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## Big Don (Dec 15, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> Kenpo, as i am currently being trained, seems rather slow, with testing every 2 months even if you master the techniques and katas.


I study Kenpo and have NEVER tested in two month intervals. There is so much more involved than just the techniques and the forms. When I started my Sifu told me that from start to testing for Brown Belt is about three years. As I started in May of 05, I am right on track as a Green Belt. The Colored ranks (Yellow through Green) are generally testable every six months,and  the Brown Belts every eight to nine months. 
In two months there is barely time to learn the techniques. That short a period of time doesn't allow for any seasoning.


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## exile (Dec 15, 2007)

Big Don said:


> That short a period of time doesn't allow for any seasoning.



This hothouse/force-fed approach to MA training reminds me of a hysterical episode from a Woody Allen movie, where he brags to some friends at a party that as a result of his recently completed speed-reading course, he was able to start and finish the whole of Proust's _Remembrance of Things Past_ in a single weekend. Impressed, one of the people he's talking to asks him for an overview of the set of novels; Allen considers carefully for a moment and then replies, `Well...it was about some Frenchmen.' 

It just can't be done. Can't, can't, can't.


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## shesulsa (Dec 15, 2007)

You guys grade every two months ... and you're calling that slow?

Well ... you'd be better off disserting to your admissions board that fast belts aren't worth the dye they're made with and that comprehension of the knowledge itself is more key to you than the color.  But what do I know? 

It sounds like you've made your decision, you have plenty of advice here.  Good luck ... again.  Oh ... what are you hoping to practice? and where?


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## jks9199 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> I believe advancement should be a reflection of my dedication and talent, and my mastery of the art, but not a function of the length of time in the art. If I don't work very hard, taking 2 group classes a week, and spend no time to practice at home, it may take me 10 or 20 years to get a black belt. But if i work 10 times as hard, the question would be, shouldn't it be fair if i can get there 10 times faster?
> 
> My hope is that someone can point me to a some options such that I can achieve this impossible goal, or at least get as close to it as i can.


 
There's an old story (already recounted in full) about a man who went to a well known sword master and asked him how long it would take to master his sword style.  The master said 5 years, shocking the prospective student.  So, he asked, what if I train twice as hard?  10 years, said the master!

The thing about martial arts training (and I suspect this is actually probably true of medicine, too!) is that it's only partly how "hard" you work...  You have to work smart, and train properly, too.  There's no substitute for hard work and dedicated practice...  but if it's not done with the proper spirit and proper methods, it's worse than wasted effort.

As I believe I said before... change the focus.  If you really think this is something that will help your application, focus on learning as much, as well, as you can.  Rank will then happen...  But if you instead are so focused on rank, you won't learn.


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## Kacey (Dec 15, 2007)

Rank testing occurs when the instructor determines the student is ready for the next level.  In my class, my students test every 3-4 months - and there's always a few who aren't ready, and wait for the next testing, or test at another class in our association if they're read off the class's testing schedule.  Every 2 months seems horribly fast to me as well - so for you to be asking how you can advance faster than that seems, no matter your protestations to the contrary, to be self-serving rather than out of any actual interest in attaining valid rank.


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## bydand (Dec 15, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> In conclusion, I must restate that I am looking for the fastest art for the proper transfer of knowledge.  Kenpo, as i am currently being trained, seems rather slow, with testing every 2 months even if you master the techniques and katas.



Fastest art for proper transfer of knowledge, and 2 months between testing now is too slow?  Dude, lay off the minnie-whites and come back to the pace of the real world.  I have never seen any art, let alone Kenpo where you *master *the techniques in 2 months.  

Right now I am a mid-kyu level practitioner in my art, it has been 18 months between rankings and will probably be another 2 months before my Instructor and myself think I am ready to demo for the next belt.  It will take me that long to put together the demo I want to give, and go through it enough to feel like I have semi-mastered the material.   Yes, the school I go to is VERY, VERY slow to rank students, but that is why we are all there.  We all have been in belt factories before and *know *when we tie on the next belt here at this school, there is very few in the same art who is at the same level of knowledge for our respective belt color.  That is what we want, not saying that is the way it HAS to be.  

I have to agree with the other posters who say to slow down and earn each and every belt through both knowledge and practice.  The men and women who sit on the review boards, are not going to be duped into thinking that a 1 year practicing MA is going to be that high ranking with real knowledge of the art or internalization of the thought process involved in learning an art.  They may not be MA's themselves, but they have seen dozens claiming to be on applications and resumes, they will pick out the difference between a "resume filler" and a true practitioner. One that has exercised their minds to learn in several different ways for years, not dabbled for months.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 15, 2007)

I have to agree with Scott that they probably will see through your attempt at a resume filler.  Instead, why don't you find a martial system that you enjoy and just practice and when rank happens it will be something that you can be proud of!


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 15, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> Not to beat the point to death, but if I were to purchase a belt, I wouldn't have even bothered writing this post, and in the process arouse much anger among the community. I would've just went and bought it. The question I would've posted would be "where can i buy a ranking? or who's willing to certify me for a fee?", rather than which art can train me faster. I feel much of the attack was on me shortcutting, and the feeling of disgust at the cheapening of the value of hard work. I understand that and I regret that my previous statement came through as such.
> 
> In conclusion, I must restate that I am looking for the fastest art for the proper transfer of knowledge. Kenpo, as i am currently being trained, seems rather slow, with testing every 2 months even if you master the techniques and katas.


 
To be honest, this statement is not much better.

You have to understand that first you are on a page that has a lot of Martial artists that have put in a lot of time to get to where they are and to ask how do I get a brown belt in a year is going to be received as you are looking to buy a belt so why not save time and go to AWMA and buy one. 

What the overall sound of the respone you are getting is saying; you cant Honestly get a brown belt in a year. You are also taking something like martial arts that is taken rather seriously on MT and saying it is nothing but padding on your resume which is also saying you are not serious. 

Then you add you train kempo that tests every 2 months and further show how much you do not take MA seriously by saying that is to slow. So what do you expect.

This is why you are being told just go buy a belt it is cheaper. 

If you get into med school, and I wish you luck with that, I hope you take that training a lot more seriously and if by chance you do get your brown belt in quick time you better hope that there is not a martial artist on the evaluation committee for med school because he/she will have much the same opinion that we have if they know you got your brown belt in a year and why you got it so fast.

There has got to be a better and more honest way to pad out the resume and it might be better to spend your time trying to find that instead of looking for a belt factory, that is if martial art is anything more to you than resume padding.


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## morph4me (Dec 15, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> You have to understand that first you are on a page that has a lot of Martial artists that have put in a lot of time to get to where they are and to ask how do I get a brown belt in a year is going to be received as you are looking to buy a belt so why not save time and go to AWMA and buy one.
> 
> What the overall sound of the respone you are getting is saying; you cant Honestly get a brown belt in a year. You are also taking something like martial arts that is taken rather seriously on MT and saying it is nothing but padding on your resume which is also saying you are not serious.
> 
> ...


 
I think this says it all.


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## RED (Dec 15, 2007)

Big Don said:


> My apologies to anyone offended by the comment, it was the only field of medicine I could think of that will never impact me or my son. I suppose I should have said forensic pathology, but, that wasn't what popped into my head at the time.


 
Don, I saw the humor in it too because I'm a guy. But I wouldn't want the Mc Doctor checking out my pregnant daughter-in-law either.

There isn't much left for me to add to this conversation. But would Wrestling fit the bill? You wont get rank but you will have the bragging rights. I'm not a grappler, my son is (which by the way he took first in his weight last weekend), but dosen't AAU have adult clasifications? Also, dose your college have a martial arts club? Put that on the resume. Volunteer work as a medical adviser to the club or something.


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## grydth (Dec 15, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> WOW! This is quite an amazing community in that so many people responded and viewed this post. Thanks to you all.
> 
> I do volunteer work at hospitals, and I am in the army reserves. So I have some physical training and I know that I like the medical profession. Volunteering, like someone previously said, is quickly becoming tedious, since everyone who's ever attempted med school since the beginning of time has done thousands of hours of it. To stand out, often people take extraordinary steps, and MA, as I have been led to believe, is one of those obscure niches still uncommon enough to garner an extra look at the old resume.
> 
> ...



What amazes me is that you expect this tactic to work. Are you of the impression that nobody with a doctoral degree also has significant experience in the martial arts? 

A very good friend is one of the most eminent surgeons in the Northeast. He also worked for years for the Ni-Dan he holds. If you run across him - or anyone like him - in the selection process, you will be gutted and hung out to dry.

To understand the ire you have raised with this here, try considering it on your home ground. Imagine an underclassman came to you, ostensibly for advice. But what he really wanted to know is where you could go to become a Medical Doctor in one year. I mean, 8 years of college and med school would be such a drag...... surely there must be some way to be doing surgery after just a year.... right?   Now - how would *you *feel about this prospective "doctor"?

I studied the martial arts intensively on the way to my own doctorate degree. But I did so for the right reasons, and one fine day it saved my life. A resume pad will not save you from a knife wielding nut.


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## Gentle Fist (Dec 15, 2007)

Being a BJJ practitioner, I can say that my style would be the wrong choice for you.  One year will get you a two stripe white belt, well.. maybe three.  

But on the other hand you will learn more about combat in that time than in most commercial schools that focus to much on forms and the like.  So if push came to shove you could disengage someone on the street.  Which to me should be your reasoning, not to pad a resume.  If you got a year to kill, go do some volunteer work in a low income area or job shadow a doctor.


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## exile (Dec 15, 2007)

grydth said:


> To understand the ire you have raised with this here, try considering it on your home ground. Imagine an underclassman came to you, ostensibly for advice. But what he really wanted to know is where you could go to become a Medical Doctor in one year. I mean, 8 years of college and med school would be such a drag...... surely there must be some way to be doing surgery after just a year.... right?   Now - how would *you *feel about this prospective "doctor"?



Grydth's comparison is right on the money; all I would add to it is that I myself don't feel ire so much as... well, frustration, because the OP's world view and mine/ours is so vast and seemingly unbridgeable. I was taught virtually from the cradle by my hyperperfectionist parents  that if you undertake to do anything, you should do it right, and not just right but outstandingly well. And what I've discovered in my various MA adventures is that a lot of people who do MAs seriously share this point of view. There is enormous breadth and depth to the MAs, many layers of increasingly sophisticated knowledge and practical ability that would take several lifetimes for even the best of us to reach the frontiers of. That's part of what makes it so satisfying to do: you always know you can do it better. In fact, for one of the great pioneers of modern Taekwondo, Gm. Duk Sung Son, the second headmaster of the Chung Do Kwan and the man that many belief to have been the originator of the name `Taekwondo' for the Korean development of Japanese karate that emerged in the 1950s and '60s, it was this very unattainability of technical perfection that entitled TKD, and other MAs, to the description `martial _art_'. In his pioneering 1968 TKD book _Korean Karate_, he observed that 

_As in the case of painting, singing, or any other human activity generally classified as an art, *the art is in the striving and the goal is never reached.* In engineering, the bridge is built. In business, the profitable operation is achieved. In medicine, the patient is cured.Of course, the better way is always sought and the horizons of science and engineering are continually broadening. But the steps are tangible. In an art, the only measure is subjective... the goals always remain ahead because, no matter how fast or strong or coordinated a movement is, it can always be done faster or more storngly or with better coordination. This is the asymptotic approach: one is always approaching, but although the measure of miss becomes infinitely small, perfection is never achieved. It is well known that great artists in music, painting, writing and so on never feel they have created the perfect work. They strive to improve._​
(p. 11; emphasis added). One can quibble with details of Gm. Son's comparisons, but I think most of us in the MAs, and certainly on MT, share this same kind of view. So to encounter a perspective which seems to want to bypass the actual substance of the art and instead obtain what would be a truly hollow symbol of competence without the content to match, is... well, it's just not something that we can get our minds around. I'm talking to the OPer now: most of us, I suspect, would be very skeptical of the motives and integrity of anyone who approached _any_ aspect of life the way the OP seems to view the MAs. And as grydth points out, if you encounter a doctor on the admissions board who has studied a MA for any length of time, and offer a one-year brown belt as evidence of... whatever... you're going to be doing your cause _way _ more harm than good.


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## terryl965 (Dec 15, 2007)

*fistlaw720* Post is the same as mine except I do TKD *Being a BJJ practitioner, I can say that my style would be the wrong choice for you. One year will get you a two stripe white belt, well.. maybe three. *


The only different is if you find a Mc Dojo then you could actually recieve that rank in your timeframe, if you was to train with me it would be 3-5 if you came 6 days a week for two hours a day.
Nothing comes easy in life and you are looking for an easy way of doing thing in my opinion. What happens if you relly become a doctor take every shortcut there is to make a buck. I hope you really do consider to be a real martial Artest and go down the right path in your journey.


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## arnisador (Dec 15, 2007)

exile said:


> I was taught virtually from the cradle by my hyperperfectionist parents  that if you undertake to do anything, you should do it right, and not just right but outstandingly well.



It seems to me that the O.P. feels similarly. He's dedicated himself to admission to the best possible medical school and is seeking to present the most outstanding application possible in order to achieve that end. That our hobby is to him primarily a means to his education-related end doesn't mean he's not doing the best for _his _goal. You and he have the same attitude applied to different problems.

After all, you have to deal with minor medical issues for the bruises, scrapes, and cuts you get in your martial arts classes, but have you gone to medical or nursing school so that you can provide optimal self-care? Well, you might see that as an exaggerated comparison, but earning a black belt is a nontrivial undertaking whether or not you see it as comparable to a med./nursing school education. Either way, I see some symmetry here. We all define our own goals.

I don't think giving the O.P. advice on admissions to medical school is something anyone here is well-qualified to do...not even those of us who occasionally do it as part of their job (as I do with my undergraduate advisees, like the one who was in my office two weeks ago insisting that organic chem. was "optional" (!!!) for pre-med. students). But advising that using the martial arts in this way will be offensive in real-life as it is online is indeed good advice.

We all know there are schools that will meet this individual's needs. If you live in a good-sized city, you know the names of a couple of such McDojos.(In addition, there may be legitimate schools that simply have a small curriculum and allow relatively quicker advancement.)  The only question is, _What are the ethics of directing someone to a questionable school for a questionable reason?
_
I don't see it as being my place to judge his reasons. Not everyone can be expected to be as serious about our area of interest as we are, though showing more respect for it wouldn't have been a bad idea. It could have been phrased much better. (Troll?)

To those who say they wouldn't use such a physician as this individual: Most physicians you visit likely did much worse things in college, because...they were college undergraduates.  Who here saw a pre-med. student vomit into a commode at least every other weekend? (_Check_.) Cheat on assignments? (_Check_.) Start (and win) a fight at a bar, out of boredom? (_Check_.) I did know two who were saints, though. None of that correlated with their basic intelligence.


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## Laurentkd (Dec 15, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I don't see it as being my place to judge his reasons. Not everyone can be expected to be as serious about our area of interest as we are, though showing more respect for it wouldn't have been a bad idea. It could have been phrased much better. (Troll?)


 

I do like your point here.  Whenever I can't understand why a student quits, or doesn't want to give more in class or doesn't want to help assist a class or do a demo my instructor always reminds me "not everyone is like us Lauren."
And it is true. I am willing to bet that everyone here is in the top 1% of their school when it comes to passion for the arts.  Hmmm... didn't think of it before but you make a good point sir.:asian:


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## MJS (Dec 16, 2007)

Thelardking said:


> the other comment that I think i should clear up, is that I have a good mcat score and GPA, not superbly high, but well above average. So it comes down to my CV that'll determine WHICH med school i get into. And of course, like any logical person, I would prefer it to be as strong as possible. Given MA is something that I enjoy doing, so naturally I wish to excel in it and be recognized for doing that. Again, I'm not looking for a shortcut (which after I read my initial comment, really sounds like the implied question). No shortcut, but there must be a MA that's both respectable and easy enough to learn such that given enough dedication, i can achieve something above a purple in a year's time.


 
You state that you're not looking for a shortcut, but actually you are.  You're looking for an art that'll give you fast rank in the shortest amount of time.  Sounds like a shortcut to me.


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## Karatedrifter7 (Dec 16, 2007)

Is it the belt you want? Or mastering the quickest art to be able to fight? I would forget about the belt. Bruce Lee said the quickest way to learn fighting was to practice boxing, and Muay Thai. Not everybody has the same goals, so I respect this one as well.

Buona Fortuna!

Dave


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## morph4me (Dec 16, 2007)

When I read the original post it struck me the same way it struck me when I heard that the 911 terrorist went to flight schools to learn basically how to steer an airplane. I must admit I felt the same resentment as many here have expressed, I've worked for many years to develop my skills and *earn* my rank. I feel that the OP is demeaning to the time and work put in by the people in this forum, but he's he's young and impatient and I was the same way. Time and experience have a way of teaching us the value of things.


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## charyuop (Dec 16, 2007)

morph4me said:


> When I read the original post it struck me the same way it struck me when I heard that the 911 terrorist went to flight schools to learn basically how to steer an airplane. I must admit I felt the same resentment as many here have expressed, I've worked for many years to develop my skills and *earn* my rank. I feel that the OP is demeaning to the time and work put in by the people in this forum, but he's he's young and impatient and I was the same way. Time and experience have a way of teaching us the value of things.


 
That is called "beginner's enthusiasm". With time you will discover if you actually like the art or not. If you like the art you will start loving. When you start loving it...who cares about the belt? It become a life companion, walks by your side and evolves with you IN you. Time loses meaning and ranking too.


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## Cirdan (Dec 16, 2007)

_"Nothing is more important than one`s patience and concideration as practiced in daily life. Live in the "here and now" and do not be distracted bu the ways of the world. If you rush, your path will be narrow, but by keeping one stap back, the way will be wide." _-the Bubishi

There are no shortcuts. Brown belt in one year without prior experience is ridicolous.


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## Grenadier (Dec 17, 2007)

Most arts have general guidelines, as to how long it takes the "average" student to get to a certain level, assuming that they train a certain number of times a week, and practice the material at home consistently.  You'd best speak to the instructor of a particular school to see how long it would take.  

Now, if you were to train twice as much as the "average" student would, and if you can demonstrate the proper level of proficiency for the rank that you are testing, and most importantly, are using the proper kihon for the system (the fundamentals), then I see no problems in someone being promoted faster than the average student.  To me, it would be more of a matter of someone simply being more dedicated to his training.  

Usually, though, people who are in a terrible rush to complete things as quickly as possible, are going to miss out on some of the important aspects of the training.  

Still, if you want to give it a whirl, by all means, talk with the instructors, and see if it is possible.  I've had some beginning students train 8 hours a week, instead of the usual 2 hours a week, and it's no surprise that they advanced through the ranks more quickly, since they earned it.  I've also had some "rushers" not pass an exam, because they tried to cram too much, too soon.  



Now that I've said this, I will also tell you, that I, too, once considered going to medical school, and have been through the application / interview process.  Therefore, I can say with some certaintity, that I can give you a bit of advice that will be more informed than the "average" person.  

Medical schools primarily look at only a handful of criteria.  The big three are your GPA, your MCAT scores, and your recommendations from your professors in the sciences.  Those three categories alone are enough to get someone into medical school, assuming that you do decently.  Two outstanding performances in the above are usually enough, too.  

A fourth category, which is still somewhat significant, but not nearly as significant as the above three, can include what you did in terms of scientific research and / or actual hospital work.  This can be a supplement that can help you compensate, in case if one of the above three categories are somewhat deficient.  

While it is true, that extra cirricular activities can help, they're nothing more than a tie breaker at best, and if you're at the point where you're involved in a tie breaker at a particular school, then you're probably going to be accepted elsewhere.  Thus, if you were heavily involved in something truly worthwhile, you may have a slight edge over the guy whose sole accomplishment (in terms of extra cirricular activities) was that he was a member of the Dungeons and Dragons club, assuming that all things are equal (and they almost never are).


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## thardey (Dec 17, 2007)

Maybe you should try a Martial Art that doesn't involve ranking? I still don't see what "Brown Belt" has to do with anything. Brown Belt is still a "colored belt," that is, a student belt.

If you're looking to demonstrate how athletic you are, why not try something like fencing, or ballroom dancing? You can probably train hard at a ballroom, take a bunch of private lessons, and achieve a "silver level" status by a year. It will cost about the same about of money.

You've already got the "Nat. Guard" endorsement, which shows that you are willing and able to fight. (In general.) If you want to really show that you are "well rounded", maybe you should try something more artistic!

My old Ballroom instructor used to work near a Med. School. Most of his clients were nurses and students. It's worth a look.

Or you could try fencing (which is still considered a Martial Art). It still has a reputation of being a little elite, disciplined, athletic, and intelligent. But it doesn't have ranks. You could fence for a year, and all you would have to include was what weapons you trained under -- Foil, epee, or saber. If you want to really pad your resume, learn all three weapons at once, then you could say Foil, 1 year, epee, 1 year, and saber, 1 year. I wouldn't recommend schlagger, though. While a lot of fun, nobody know what it is, and so it won't really impress anyone.

Or heck, do both dancing and fencing. Then you have two more "well rounded" hobbies (read: renaissance man) in one year! Each one will compliment the other.

But if you're looking to do something impressive in one year, you're gonna have to think outside of the box. When you hear "Martial Arts" don't get yourself stuck to Karate, or Kung-fu, or Jujutsu. Also, don't get yourself stuck to a Brown Belt, either. There's a lot of people of this site who don't even award belts, nor have them -- no matter what your experience.


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## gkygrl (Dec 23, 2007)

Big Don said:


> My apologies to anyone offended by the comment, it was the only field of medicine I could think of that will never impact me or my son. I suppose I should have said forensic pathology, but, that wasn't what popped into my head at the time.



Your apology is very much appreciated.  That comment caught me a little off-guard!

Also, great advice on this thread.  I have finally read it all the way through and it makes a person examine their motives.

Thanks for all the experienced MA's who shared here.  Good stuff.


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## 7starmarc (Jan 30, 2008)

As someone who is faculty at a medical school and has interviewed candidates for  residency positions and medical school for seven years, I would say that you're pursuit may not be the best idea.

Your experience will, of, course, depend on the background and disposition of the interviewer at various institutions, but let's look at a couple scenarios:

1. The interviewer knows nothing of martial arts, notices the interest and nothing more. Your rank would mean very little to them. Also, martial arts means little to them. Other activities might be more intriguing (music, dance, painting) or impressive (research, volunteering, EMT training).

2. The interviewer knows martial arts, notices the interest and rank, is not overly impressed since brown belt is a variable measure of dedication/success. They are aware of the variability in difficulty of achieving that level belt, so it's kind of a footnote. If the person presses the issue, and tries to make it mean more than it does it becomes a put-off (see below).

3. The interviewer knows martial arts and is a serious practitioner. They ask you about you training and style. It comes out that you have been training for only a year, but are a brown belt. Silently, they question your motives and true interest in arts, and what else might be a fabrication in the application. Believe me, once one item is put into doubt, the entire application can be put into doubt.

Those people who have put martial arts on their CV have fallen into three categories, in my experience.

1. People who just have a casual interest and want to share it. They don't claim rank or expertise, it's just another activity.

2. People who are more interested, but have not progressed far. They state their true rank, and it's just a footnote, another interest to round them out. Perhaps more helpful than #1, but pretty neutral overall.

3. People who have achieved something real in martial arts (i.e. black belt or similar). You can tell, it's part of their story and person. For some interviewers it means very little, for others it speaks volumes.

I've never run into a "poser" martial artist in the interviews I've done. If I did, I would question the candidate's application and their authenticity.

I guess the moral of my post is that you should just be yourself. If you have a genuine interest in martial arts, pick a style, train, and don't be overly concerned about how it will look on your application. If it's really significant to you, it will come out as a positive (or neutral) no matter what rank you write down. If you try to make your training into something it's not, you might get away with it, but it will mean very little to your application; or, you might get "caught" and actually harm your application.

You'd be surprised what some of the faculty interviewers I work with pick up on.


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## kingkong89 (Feb 12, 2008)

all i can say is find any style that suites you and work hard as you can to advance.


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