# When things go bump



## wrc619 (Oct 17, 2008)

Last night, my roommate and I heard a loud noise outside the house.  Neither of us spook easily, but we wanted to figure out what had made the noise.  So, we grabbed a machete and a pellet gun and went to investigate.  We found nothing.  We don't have any firearms at the house at the moment.  Question.  What would you have done?  Realize also that we are both trained in less than lethal force.


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## jarrod (Oct 17, 2008)

wrc619 said:


> Last night, my roommate and I heard a loud noise outside the house. Neither of us spook easily, but we wanted to figure out what had made the noise. So, we grabbed a machete and a pellet gun and went to investigate. We found nothing. We don't have any firearms at the house at the moment. Question. What would you have done? Realize also that we are both trained in less than lethal force.


 
stalking a potential intruder is a last resort tactic, firearm or no.  if there had been an armed intruder out there, you could both easily be dead.  next time grab a phone, grab a weapon (not a pellet gun) & wait & see.  call the cops if need be.


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## jks9199 (Oct 17, 2008)

wrc619 said:


> Last night, my roommate and I heard a loud noise outside the house.  Neither of us spook easily, but we wanted to figure out what had made the noise.  So, we grabbed a machete and a pellet gun and went to investigate.  We found nothing.  We don't have any firearms at the house at the moment.  Question.  What would you have done?  Realize also that we are both trained in less than lethal force.


I do have firearms.  And I'm a cop.  And my best option in a case like that remains calling 911 and letting the people who aren't in their PJs (or less) check it out.  If you're concerned enough about a noise that you need weapons to check it out, you probably should be taking a position of safety, and calling for help.

Realistically... it would depend on all the circumstances.  Drunk falling against my house?  Might make initial contact myself.  Splintering sound from the front door?  Yeah, I'll probably be greeting the visitor and allowing them a very special view of a Glock.  While my wife calls it in.


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## kailat (Oct 17, 2008)

chances are it was a raccoon!


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## KenpoTex (Oct 17, 2008)

JKS pretty much covered what I would have said.

Seriously...what was the pellet-gun going to accomplish.  (And if anyone is about to say something like "deterrent factor" or "to scare them," smack yourself upside the head)


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## zDom (Oct 17, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> ... and letting the people who aren't in their PJs (or less) check it out.



LOL 

I remember when I was like 10, my friends and I would investigate sounds on the other side of the house. Conversation (to scare burglars ) would be something like,

"Did you bring the bazooka?"

"Yep yep.. got it right here. Howabout those hand grenades?"

"Check! The other guys  all 50 of them  should be here any second now..."


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## MA-Caver (Oct 17, 2008)

KenpoTex said:


> JKS pretty much covered what I would have said.
> 
> Seriously...what was the pellet-gun going to accomplish.  (And if anyone is about to say something like "deterrent factor" or "to scare them," *smack yourself upside the head*)


*WITH* the pellet gun... then for good measure shoot yourself in the ear with it.


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## DavidCC (Oct 17, 2008)

DUH you shoot them with the pellet gun, then while they are cussing you out for shooting them with a pellet gun, you chop their arm off with the machete.


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## Josh Oakley (Oct 17, 2008)

Those things do hurt. Especially when you get shot in the face. My student just went to the ER because  a "friend" of his shot him two inches below the eye. On purpose; this "friend is a very messed up kid.




Needless to say, he's been ordered not to hang out with this "friend" ever again.


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## JBrainard (Oct 17, 2008)

I'd grab whatever weapon of oportunity was around (probably a hammer) and causiosly scout it out.

This tread reminds me of a funny story though. My wife and I have incountered a break in in progress. We where babysitting my mother in law's house while she was in Cali and we where the only ones in town. Anyway, we heard some really odd noises coming from the garage. We went around to the side of the house to where the walk in garage door is and spotted someone leaving the garage with a crobar in hand. Here is the crazy part; While I was soaking in what I was wittnessing, my wife, who is not a MAist of any sort, bum rushed the robber and tackled him before I had a chance to even take a step towards him :erg: . I snapped out of my shock, grabbed the guy (who was already giving up under the presure of my wife's "enthusiasm") and kept him there until the police arived. We got the job done, and the police caught the other robbers (one of whom had a gun!) who had gotten away before we caught who was apparently the last one out.
Not the brightest way to go about things, but luckily things worked out in the end.


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## MA-Caver (Oct 17, 2008)

JBrainard said:


> I'd grab whatever weapon of oportunity was around (probably a hammer) and causiosly scout it out.
> 
> This tread reminds me of a funny story though. My wife and I have encountered a break in in progress. We where babysitting my mother in law's house while she was in Cali and we where the only ones in town. Anyway, we heard some really odd noises coming from the garage. We went around to the side of the house to where the walk in garage door is and spotted someone leaving the garage with a crowbar in hand. Here is the crazy part; While I was soaking in what I was witnessing, my wife, who is not a MAist of any sort, bum rushed the robber and tackled him before I had a chance to even take a step towards him :erg: . I snapped out of my shock, grabbed the guy (who was already giving up under the pressure of my wife's "enthusiasm") and kept him there until the police arived. We got the job done, and the police caught the other robbers (one of whom had a gun!) who had gotten away before we caught who was apparently the last one out.
> Not the brightest way to go about things, but luckily things worked out in the end.


Your MA-ing inspired your wife or probably she didn't want YOU to hurt the guy so she bum-rushed him. Luckily she didn't get hurt as a crowbar is a lethal weapon in any (capable) hands. At least one of them went to jail.


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## Laurentkd (Oct 17, 2008)

I don't think I would go looking around outiside.  I live in an apartment on the second floor with an alarm, so unless I am hearing a door splintering I am staying in bed.
This reminds me of a discussion my mom and I are always having though.  One time my alarm went off (which meant a door or window was open) and my response was to hop up, grab the 4 foot staff I have in my room and move to the front door.  It turned out that the lock on my door didn't catch and the wind was pushing the door far enough open to trigger the alarm.  I was fine with my reaction, although I really should have called 911 first.

My mom however thought I was an idiot.  She thinks I should grab my phone and roll under my bed and wait there until the police arrive.  Her thought is that the "bad guy" would have a much harder time getting to me if I was under my bed (only about a foot or so clearance).

Not to mention the fact that my bed has so much junk underneth it that there is no way I would fit, the thought of just hiding doesn't work for me...


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## Brother John (Oct 17, 2008)

wrc619 said:


> Last night, my roommate and I heard a loud noise outside the house. Neither of us spook easily, but we wanted to figure out what had made the noise. So, we grabbed a machete and a pellet gun and went to investigate. We found nothing. We don't have any firearms at the house at the moment. Question. What would you have done? Realize also that we are both trained in less than lethal force.


 

What's going on outside the house = not worth going out there for.
What's going on INSIDE the house = THAT's what you should watch.

I'd NOT have gone outside or stuck my nose to a window. I'd have checked the entrances to the house and made sure things were secure. IF there were further incidents, I'd call the authorities. 

Going outside wouldn't be the best choice of action...
UNLESS they were setting your house on fire! Then by all means, GO outside. 

Your Brother
John


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## Big Don (Oct 17, 2008)

Brother John said:


> What's going on outside the house = not worth going out there for.
> What's going on INSIDE the house = THAT's what you should watch.


 Excellent point! The Sound of a pump shotgun's action being cycled is singular and almost universally known, and on a quiet night, carries quite well.





> I'd NOT have gone outside or stuck my nose to a window. I'd have checked the entrances to the house and made sure things were secure. IF there were further incidents, I'd call the authorities.
> 
> Going outside wouldn't be the best choice of action...
> UNLESS they were setting your house on fire! Then by all means, GO outside.
> ...


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## JBrainard (Oct 17, 2008)

MA-Caver said:


> Your MA-ing inspired your wife or probably she didn't want YOU to hurt the guy so she bum-rushed him..


 
I don't think it was either. She just has *very* strong feelings about people messing with her family.



MA-Caver said:


> Luckily she didn't get hurt as a crowbar is a lethal weapon in any (capable) hands.


 
No kidding! Luckily, this was just a punk kid who probably wouldn't have even used the crowbar unless I started beating the **** out of him (which I didn't).


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## HM2PAC (Oct 17, 2008)

I live out in the middle of nowhere. The police are easily 15 minutes away if not more. For us, sitting tight and waiting is not an option.

When things go bump in the night, the wife takes the Rem870 and I take the 1911.


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## jks9199 (Oct 17, 2008)

HM2PAC said:


> I live out in the middle of nowhere. The police are easily 15 minutes away if not more. For us, sitting tight and waiting is not an option.
> 
> When things go bump in the night, the wife takes the Rem870 and I take the 1911.


There's no perfect answer, no matter what, and I'm not trying to pick on you.  Your situation supports at least some cursory investigation -- or you'd be calling the cops at every racoon, opossum, and whatever that wandered into the yard.  And you probably know the difference in sound between a possum and squirrel on your roof...  But Brother John had an excellent division:  If it's outside... peek around, consider calling for the cops if it escalates.  If you can see who it or what it is, and reasonably believe you can handle it... maybe you deal with it yourself.  If it's inside... it's time to be taking appropriate action WHILE notifying the cops.

One thing... never hesitate to call the cops about something.  That's what they're there for -- and, generally, the worst you'll do is keep the cop from writing someone a ticket.  You're not going to pull them off of a higher priority call.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 17, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> One thing... never hesitate to call the cops about something.  That's what they're there for -- and, generally, the worst you'll do is keep the cop from writing someone a ticket.  You're not going to pull them off of a higher priority call.



Good solid advice.  Call 911 and get them informed.  Create a solid defensive position and if necessary take action.  Going outside and investigating could be disastrous armed or not armed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





However like jks9199 mentioned above there simply are no cookie cutter answers to a question like this as each situation will be dynamic and unique!


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 17, 2008)

wrc619 said:


> Last night, my roommate and I heard a loud noise outside the house. Neither of us spook easily, but we wanted to figure out what had made the noise. So, we grabbed a machete and a pellet gun and went to investigate. We found nothing. We don't have any firearms at the house at the moment. Question. What would you have done? Realize also that we are both trained in less than lethal force.


 
WRC,

First, in the few states that allow the 'castle doctrine' it applies to the house, not outside. So venturing outside brings you into another legal world. Plus most states (not including Texas or Florida) have retreat laws were you are required to retreat if you can do so when attacked outside the house (and many inside to.) No 'stand your ground' laws in those states.

Ok, anyway you decided to leave the safety of the house to find out what the noise is. Simi-armed. I have read several accounts of people interupting thieves stealing from their cars and getting shot for their trouble. That's a hint. If you are going to look for trouble, I suggest you go loaded for bear and not simi-armed.

Now what would I do? If I suspected a thief, I'd arm myself, gather the family in the bed room, and call the cops. If I just wondered what the noise was, I'd arm myself, get my E2D defender flashlight, make sure my spouse was armed and had the cell phone, and I'd very very cautiously check using clearing techniques I've been trained on at schools. And that's IF I decided that noise really needed to be checked.

Deaf


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## jks9199 (Oct 18, 2008)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Good solid advice.  Call 911 and get them informed.  Create a solid defensive position and if necessary take action.  Going outside and investigating could be disastrous armed or not armed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One more addendum...

Unless absolutely necessary to save a life -- once you've called the cops and they're coming... STAY INSIDE.  That's what I want even another cop doing as a general rule, because the last think I want to have to worry about as I respond (and I'm sometimes sneaky, and come in from an unexpected direction) is some other guy out there with a gun.

You reach the point that you're calling the cops -- take up a safe position, and wait for us to come.  Don't complicate matters or create a tragedy by running out there trying to catch the bad guy.  Like I've said -- I'm a cop.  Even if I grab my badge, how are the uniformed patrol guys supposed to know that I'm a cop if I'm chasing after the guy in my skivvies?


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## sgtmac_46 (Oct 20, 2008)

What would I do, or what do I advise others to do because of concern for legal liability?

Advice for those asking me?  Call the police.....

What DO I do?  I don't call the cops when I hear a bump in the night.....I am a police officer, and i'm more than capable of checking my own house.

Yeah, I know, i've heard the advice 'Call the cops, it's what they get paid to do'.......so I should only risk my life when i'm getting paid my pittance on the clock, but not when defending my own home?  

I check my house, and if there's anyone there who shouldn't be there, then I call the police to come pick up the body.

Now if they're outside and not doing anything but prowling, i'll call the on-duty guys and have them round them up....inside the Bat Cave they belong to me.


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## chinto (Oct 25, 2008)

I would say a pellet gun is stupid, and that if you are concerned enough to arm yourself with a deadly weapon, then perhaps  going into a defensive position and calling 911 is not a bad choice at all. but clearing a room or home of possible intruders is something that does take training to do right!!   if you have a fire arm prepare to use it, as any intruder in your home should provably be considered a very possible deadly threat, but going looking is an invitation to an ambush or worse.


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## allenjp (Oct 27, 2008)

Ok Kenpotex, I smacked myself upside the head, I guess I can respond now???

Seriously, this is why I have a dog. If there's a noise outside his ears are keen enough to know if it's something I should worry about or not, and he lets me know. He actually woke me up one night, barking his head off at the front window, and when I looked out I found the neighbor's dog relieving himself on my lawn! At 3 a.m.! (He somehow knew I would care about that one) He also lets me know WHERE the danger is coming from, which means I can take a proper defensive position without having to go outside, while my wife calls the pros. And yes, my primary home defense weapon is a Mossberg 500, so the next thing the bad guy hears is a BIG action cycling. If he is determined or stupid enough to keep coming after that, well, that's on him.
Dogs are also a great deterrent. When they bark, even if it's a small dog, many BG's will move on to the next...less noisy...target.


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## trainable (Oct 27, 2008)

The castle clause applies to your person in Florida.  However, the law views life above property.  If you shoot and/or kill someone, you had better have a good reason.  A person being in my house or trying to get in my house is plenty of reason.  

Be prudent in preparing for the worst case scenario.  Have the PD on speed dial or the #near the phone.  Take the time to train with your weapon.  If you dont practice, you have no clue what will happen when you try to engage under pressure.  Determine where you can or can not shoot safely in your home.  My kids are behind many of the walls that I might have to engage a badguy.  Bullets go everywhere you hope they wont.  Dont kill your family.

Also, a great coach once said(Tony Blauer), "Dont let ego or pride dictate your next strategy".  This is true.  Think about your capacity to act, and cover your bases.  Call the cops.  Protect your family.  Let the PD handle the rest.  If the threat comes to you, STOP THE THREAT.  Dont let your ego take you down a path you have no experience on.  Be safe.


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## KenpoTex (Oct 27, 2008)

allenjp said:


> Ok Kenpotex, I smacked myself upside the head, I guess I can respond now???
> 
> Seriously, this is why I have a dog. If there's a noise outside his ears are keen enough to know if it's something I should worry about or not, and he lets me know. He actually woke me up one night, barking his head off at the front window, and when I looked out I found the neighbor's dog relieving himself on my lawn! At 3 a.m.! (He somehow knew I would care about that one) He also lets me know WHERE the danger is coming from, which means I can take a proper defensive position without having to go outside, while my wife calls the pros. And yes, my primary home defense weapon is a Mossberg 500, so the next thing the bad guy hears is a BIG action cycling. If he is determined or stupid enough to keep coming after that, well, that's on him.
> Dogs are also a great deterrent. When they bark, even if it's a small dog, many BG's will move on to the next...less noisy...target.



Dogs are a great "tool" in home security.  If they bark, they can attract unwanted attention from neighbors or alert the homeowner to a possible intruder.  They can also, depending on the dog, pose an actual physical threat to the BG.  

There is a big difference between having a dog, motion lights, good locks, etc. (all of which can act as a deterrent...making your house a harder target than the BG may want to tackle), and meeting the guy with a BB-gun in your hand.  Showing up with a BB-gun is bluffing...you'd better hope the BG doesn't call your bluff.


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## jks9199 (Oct 27, 2008)

Dogs are great -- but not a guarantee.  I've seen plenty of supposedly vicious "guard dogs" that were really family pets who simply viewed a burglar as a new playmate...


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## allenjp (Oct 28, 2008)

My dog is not there as a guard dog or an attack dog. I don't want him to attack the BG, the way I figure, just me being AWAKE before the BG gets into my house is a huge advantage for me. And he barks at every one that's outside the house. Even me. I've encouraged him to do that since he was a puppy.


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