# Tameshigiri with a knife



## Don Roley (Nov 21, 2004)

I was going to post this is in the knife fighting thread. But it is getting a bit long and is presently moving in the direction of what knives can the modern ninja can carry without trouble or drawing attention to themselves. So I will start this new thread.

At Someya dojo many people go through tameshigiri training with a sword. I have been to several sessions myself and have seen different types of cutting drills.

One that I have adopted for the knife is when you hang a piece of paper by a string. At the end of the drill, you always end up with two pieces of paper instead of one. But the idea is to end up with crisp edges because you _cut_ through the paper rather than the ragged edges of you _tearing_ through the paper. It is all about edge control.

So I started taping a sheet of newspaper across an open door. A wide one that is part of the traditional set up of my house. Same idea. I can always make a hole. But the goal is to have a neat cut rather than tear through the paper. I find that smooth edges work better than serrated for feedback. I think this is a bit safer than most cutting drills and yet still give some good feedback about how you control the edge of the blade.

Anyone else want to share?


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## althaur (Nov 22, 2004)

I have used both hemp rope and pool "noodles" with a 1/2 inch dowel in the center.  Both are great.  The rope, if free hanging, gives you some great feedback.  The noodle and dowel aren't easy to cut through either.  You can really tell if your edge control is off as you go sliding along the foam, skinning it from the dowel.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 22, 2004)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> One that I have adopted for the knife is when you hang a piece of paper by a string. At the end of the drill, you always end up with two pieces of paper instead of one. But the idea is to end up with crisp edges because you _cut_ through the paper rather than the ragged edges of you _tearing_ through the paper. It is all about edge control.
> 
> So I started taping a sheet of newspaper across an open door. A wide one that is part of the traditional set up of my house. Same idea. I can always make a hole. But the goal is to have a neat cut rather than tear through the paper. I find that smooth edges work better than serrated for feedback. I think this is a bit safer than most cutting drills and yet still give some good feedback about how you control the edge of the blade.
> 
> Anyone else want to share?



I think it is also about Blade control as well as edge control. Many times the first time you swing the blade you are inches away from your intended target point. It would be, in my opinion that you should be able to put the edge where you want it as well as getting the edge to cut properly. 

 :asian:


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## Don Roley (Nov 22, 2004)

althaur said:
			
		

> I have used both hemp rope and pool "noodles" with a 1/2 inch dowel in the center.



Doesn't it take a rather massive blade to cut those things? I practice with a Delica because it is my carry knife. I have never tried cutting rope with it like you describe.


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## althaur (Nov 23, 2004)

It depends on the size of the rope.  Of course, the thinner the rope, the lighter it will be.  Just means you have to be right on with the cut or you will just move the rope.  You could also add a little weight to the bottom of the rope to make it a little easier.  The noodle and dowel I was cutting with a 6 inch blade.  I was using 3/4 inch rope for these also.


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## Kizaru (Nov 28, 2004)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> Anyone else want to share?


This probably isn't a new idea, but when I lived in Georgia, I got together with some friends and did some "test cutting"....We all pitched in some cash, then went out and bought a side of beef. We hung it from a tree, put a tarp down underneath and practiced "engaging" with different sized tools and at different angles. After that, we had a barbeque. 

About 6 or 7 years ago, to work on point control, I hung a ping pong ball (for added fun, you can paint the ball to look like an eye...) from a string and used to work on getting the tip to go from point A to point B as accurately as possible. 

I've also heard of people securing old tires on post and practicing their cuts that way too. I've never tried it myself, always sounded like a good idea to me, but I'm guessing you'd dull your blade pretty quick.


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## still learning (Nov 28, 2004)

Hello, Every site you can learn something new. and it nice to learn new things....Aloha


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## kroh (Nov 29, 2004)

A lot of knife enthusiasts go with the rope cutting.  I have seen a few demos where they take the rope and knot the end of it and try and cut through the knot (and some of them actually manage it).  

If you don't mind buying a knife to attain it, Lyne Thompson of Cold Steel has a video called "More Proof" where he does various cutting and torture excersizes with a blade.

Cool stuff...
Regards,
Walt


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## Brian R. VanCise (Nov 29, 2004)

Test cutting, excellent idea! You will learn alot if you have the opportunity to do some test cutting with meat, rope, paper, mats, tire, etc. Most importantly you will learn to control your edge and tip while moving in and threw the material of your choice. Personally I love to work with meat that has a good amount of ribs and other bones as it gives you a closer feel to what it might be like to make contact with someone who has attacked you. It also really helps in the control factor in teaching you how to disengage if the blade gets stuck. When test cutting I never forget to work the point of my blade as well. Getting used to thrusting into something is equally as important as the cutting aspect is. Once again meat is the best but mats, and the old used up tire works great as well. As to the type of blade, whether serrated or not, my experience has been that the non serrated blade usually works the best unless I am attempting to cut fabric, cardboard or plastic. With two little kids and all of the toys and packaging that comes with them my little serrated pocket knives get a lot of work and are exceptional at what they do. However if I have to defend myself or my loved ones I would definately choose one of my straight non serrated blades as my first choice. Just my 002.


Brian R. VanCise


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## Dale Seago (Dec 16, 2004)

althaur said:
			
		

> The noodle and dowel I was cutting with a 6 inch blade.  I was using 3/4 inch rope for these also.



Yeah, but as I recall that was still a pretty beefy blade. On the other hand, so was my own noodle/dowel-cutter: a Cold Steel baskethilt broadsword.   :boing2: 

(It's amazing what you can openly carry in California with only admiring comments, as long as you're properly. . ."dressed"!!)


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## Scooter (Dec 20, 2004)

As someone mentioned the side of beef, you can also get a ham, put a t-shirt over it and see just how easily you can do damage with a good knife! (and then make sandwiches!)

Another eye opener though, is to take a knife (PLEASE use a training knife for this) and cover the handle with some oil...then train. Now you get an idea of what happens once you get blood on it...it becomes very slick and alot more difficult to control- something that is often overlooked!

Also, try training out in the cold and snow (if that is available in your area), as often you find once the fingers start numbing up your technique can change....illustrates the KISS methodology quite nicely!


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## gozanryu (Jan 3, 2005)

Just an opine on the test cutting deal, and I know all (most) of you are well trained etc. Take extreme care when practicing cutting drills. I have seen some pretty viscious self inflicted cuts, gouges, and damage by zealous knife "practice" I even saw a fellow get a lateral lung pierce with a waki once while "practicing" with a buddy. (yes they were idiots with lots of black belts) With that said, I think the newspaper in the doorway is a great finesse training method. You would have to be accurate, and subtle, with your touch to make clean cuts, absent of tears etc. It would also be a good way to find out if you know how to sharpen a knife! (i recommend the Lansky system)


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## Airyu@hotmail.com (Jan 7, 2005)

Hello Everyone,

Cutting practice should always be a part of your training regime, at some point in your education. (of course safety is always a concern) I would advise anyone who is cutting to first ensure that their blade is functionally strong enough to withstand a cut against a target, and that if using a folder or lockback type blade that the locking mechanism is strong enough to not close on your fingers during practice. (Don't forget to have a first aid kit available, and 911 on the speed dial of your cell phone!)

Types of blades

Folders
Straight or fixed blades
Kerambit
Swords
Machete

As for targets:

Hemp rope 
Foam noodles or foam targets 
Various slabs of meat(including rib racks)
Various clothing articles place around different types of targets
Scarecrow based targets
Straw/Rice rolled targets
Newspaper (rolled/unrolled)
Cardboard
Ballistic Gelatin
Phone books

Training Modifiers (only once proficient at basic practice)

Do this practice with gloves on
Dip the handle in oil
Stick your hands in Ice water

Other drills

Draw from concealment(holstered)
Draw from unconventional positions (seated, kneeling, non dominent hand etc)
Mutiple deployment (right and left sides)

Again be safe!! It is too easy to injure yourself in this type of practice to take it lightly!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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