# Lost students, why?



## HKphooey (Jul 13, 2006)

My day job is in marketing and business development , but I also help out at the school I belong too.  

I developed some marketing programs to try to get back lost customers.  Customers we may have lost to the competition, over customer service issues, pricing or other reasons.  We try to find out why they left us.

I think this has a lot of value in the martial arts industry, too.  I have been surprised to talk to old students I happen to run into on the street and I hear they quit for reasons that could have been resolved with communication.  

Most people are scared of confrontation and may not be able to express their feelings to someone face to face (especially an instructor).  Follow up letters to students saying "We miss you, why did you leave" or "we miss you, we hope you are doing well" may be worth the effort.  Include a survey or questionaire.

Sometimes I think we are so school sporited and close to things that we may not want to admit our schools have issues, but every business does.

Do any owners have a follow up program for students who quit their training?  So you try to find out why they quit?


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## CTKempo Todd (Jul 13, 2006)

HK...

Good thread.

Yes in my mind I absolutley agree with you about tracking/trending losing students..
If you know the reason for leaving then something can be done about it. (For the most part). You will always lose some through no cause of your own however the reason should still be vetted.

Not sure if your school has students in binding contracts (I do not) but one way to let a student be released is conditional on filling out some type of form indicated why the want to stop..
This information in the big picture of things can sometimes be more valuable than the payment itself.

Because if your marketing/advertising dollars are being spent to bring in 10 new students in the front door and you are losing as many out the back door, what's the point?

Retention rate is the absolute key to having a large successful school.
And a big part of retention is know and adjusting to why people leave.


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## pstarr (Jul 14, 2006)

What are the main reasons students quit?


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## michaeledward (Jul 15, 2006)

Whatever the reason a student reports as the reason for quitting, it would be wise to continue to probe deeper for another reason. 

In sales, we learn there are always, at least, two objections; 1) a reason that sounds good and 2) the real reason.

One tool I used to gain greater understanding is the phrase, "In addition to that . . . "
Mr. Customer, I understand that your evening commute makes it hard to attend karate class on the schedule you would like. *In addition to that,* is there any other reason you feel you can't continue in your studies at our studio?​And don't be afraid to ask the question, three, four, or more times.


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## stone_dragone (Jul 15, 2006)

CTKempo Todd said:
			
		

> HK...
> Not sure if your school has students in binding contracts (I do not) but one way to let a student be released is conditional on filling out some type of form indicated why the want to stop..
> This information in the big picture of things can sometimes be more valuable than the payment itself.


 
I'm not teaching for pay right now, but once released from active duty, I plan on opening a school somewhere.  One of the issues I'm still struggling with is whether or not to use contracts.  The above idea (conditional relaease) is something that I haven't thought of as the only contract I've ever signed was for my school in TN (everywhere else was month by month), so I don't have much experience in that realm.  

This is why I love this forum...thanks KT...now to do a search for "contracts"...


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## Shaolinwind (Jul 15, 2006)

stone_dragone said:
			
		

> I'm not teaching for pay right now, but once released from active duty, I plan on opening a school somewhere. One of the issues I'm still struggling with is whether or not to use contracts. The above idea (conditional relaease) is something that I haven't thought of as the only contract I've ever signed was for my school in TN (everywhere else was month by month), so I don't have much experience in that realm.
> 
> This is why I love this forum...thanks KT...now to do a search for "contracts"...


 
I really hate contracts, at least the ones I've been in.  If the school turns out to be really bad for some reason, or at least really bad for you, you are stuck in it unless you move x miles away or have a dr. report.  I don't think it's fair to continue to charge someone for a service they don't want anymore.


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## CTKempo Todd (Jul 17, 2006)

Shaolinwind said:
			
		

> I really hate contracts, at least the ones I've been in. If the school turns out to be really bad for some reason, or at least really bad for you, you are stuck in it unless you move x miles away or have a dr. report. I don't think it's fair to continue to charge someone for a service they don't want anymore.


 
Agreed...
Call them agreements which are constructed over the course of a year...Contracts is a very negative word in my opinion..

Again, if someone wants to walk, I'd like to know why..
excellent point by Michael Edward


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## Carol (Jul 17, 2006)

While I don't have any experience as an instructor or running a school...I would venture that when a student quits their training it is because they have, over time, made up their mind to do so.  I would be quite surprised if a student goes from totally happy one day and the next day *poof* interest is lost and they leave.

Personally, I think the most mileage can be gained by trending current students and not just departing students.  If a school can catch satisfaction issues while the student is still training, that gives the instructor a chance to address the issue in time to make a difference to the concerned student and change their mind before they leave.

Trending departing students may give a small indication of where a  issues are, but students that are still active have more of a vested interest in their training than students that have already decided to quit.  They may very well be more open to a constructive, and revealing, conversation.  Done properly, it can also reveal what the school is doing right as well as wrong.


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## matt.m (Jul 17, 2006)

You know there is some element of truth in every aspect of the posts within this topic.  I think that the people over time may want to give up for the simple fact that they may not be getting enough encouragement.

For example: Two students that are always training partners in class.  One seems to get more praise, positive and negative then the other.  The one that gets less feed back may feel cheated and lose interest.  

I have seen people quit because they felt they were working just as hard as everyone else but it is not acknowledged, so they quit because they don't feel they are getting enough help.


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## Jusus (Jun 25, 2007)

CTKempo Todd said:


> Agreed...
> Call them agreements which are constructed over the course of a year...Contracts is a very negative word in my opinion..
> 
> Again, if someone wants to walk, I'd like to know why..
> excellent point by Michael Edward


 
When I started this school, I was informed that I would have one instructor, Later we were informed that another instructor would be taking over. As we all know MA is a subject where you have to look up to and respect your instructor, and don't get me wrong it's not that I don't respect him it just it's not what I signed a contract for. Now I found out that I can't get out of my contract. I actually think this school is going into bankrupt, most of the student I know have quit, I went from 6 training  days a week to 3 due to the new instructor living out of the city. I know that there are other school in town that would take me, but I'm getting bummed out about the lost of my first instructor. Someone Help. 
Never Sign a Contract.


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## CTKempo Todd (Jun 27, 2007)

Jusus said:


> When I started this school, I was informed that I would have one instructor, Later we were informed that another instructor would be taking over. As we all know MA is a subject where you have to look up to and respect your instructor, and don't get me wrong it's not that I don't respect him it just it's not what I signed a contract for. Now I found out that I can't get out of my contract. I actually think this school is going into bankrupt, most of the student I know have quit, I went from 6 training days a week to 3 due to the new instructor living out of the city. I know that there are other school in town that would take me, but I'm getting bummed out about the lost of my first instructor. Someone Help.
> Never Sign a Contract.


 

You can walk and let them TRY to talk you to small claims court. You have a valid reason for leaving as you feel there was a breach of contract. You signed on for a particular instructor and was switched to someone you did not agree to. 
BEFORE you do any of that, have a serious discussion with the school and let them know how you honestly feel first. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.  Put it in writing as well.


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## terryl965 (Jun 27, 2007)

Jusus said:


> When I started this school, I was informed that I would have one instructor, Later we were informed that another instructor would be taking over. As we all know MA is a subject where you have to look up to and respect your instructor, and don't get me wrong it's not that I don't respect him it just it's not what I signed a contract for. Now I found out that I can't get out of my contract. I actually think this school is going into bankrupt, most of the student I know have quit, I went from 6 training days a week to 3 due to the new instructor living out of the city. I know that there are other school in town that would take me, but I'm getting bummed out about the lost of my first instructor. Someone Help.
> Never Sign a Contract.


 

Actually you can get out of the contract, you signed up to be train by person A he retires or moves and person B take over they are not what you signed a contract for, this by itself voids out the original contract.
By the way I already ask my attorney and he is a agreement with my thoughts. Hope this will help you.


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## zDom (Jun 27, 2007)

I think most people quit martial arts programs and other fitness programs because they don't see instant results.

Or, rather, they want the results without putting in the hours and years of effort on the mat.

When they sign up, they get this image of themselves moving like Bruce Lee or looking like Arnold, but then it slowly dawns on them that the reality is hard work  and lots of it!  day in, day out for many years.

So then it's time to workout but suddenly the couch is VERY comfortable and the sitcom begins to be VERY funny and well, I'll just sit this one out and hit the next class EXTRA hard ... but then they find that, well, maybe I should work a bit of overtime today and I'll be there with bells on NEXT week ...

It's all about momentum (a person at rest tends to stay at rest; a person in motion tends to stay in motion).

Think of a person as a freight train.

Very hard to get moving, but if  and that is a BIG if  you can get them up to speed, well THEN it's not so hard to keep going.

After a significant time in martial arts, many of us find that momentum thing actually makes it hard to take a day off, even when we really ARE sick or really DO need to take care of some business that shouldn't be put off!

So, looking at it like THAT, if a contact or enrollment agreement or whatever you want to call it keeps them from quitting until they reach that "critical velocity," if it gets them past the point where they will quit because of inertia, then why not?

You are doing them a favor! You may in fact be helping them realize (as in the verb, "to make real") that mental image of themself they saw when they signed up.

Quitting is so easy to do. That is why there are SO many quitters and so very few black belts and people with physiques like Arnold


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## jks9199 (Jun 27, 2007)

terryl965 said:


> Actually you can get out of the contract, you signed up to be train by person A he retires or moves and person B take over they are not what you signed a contract for, this by itself voids out the original contract.
> By the way I already ask my attorney and he is a agreement with my thoughts. Hope this will help you.


Except I doubt that the contract specified training with Instructor X; it probably only specified number of days of training, etc.

And the definitions and rules of small claims court vary by jurisdiction.  In VA, you don't have lawyers involved in small claims (unless they're a party), but the dollar value is up to $5000.


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## jks9199 (Jun 27, 2007)

zDom said:


> ISo then it's time to workout but suddenly the couch is VERY comfortable and the sitcom begins to be VERY funny and well, I'll just sit this one out and hit the next class EXTRA hard ... but then they find that, well, maybe I should work a bit of overtime today and I'll be there with bells on NEXT week ...
> 
> It's all about momentum (a person at rest tends to stay at rest; a person in motion tends to stay in motion).
> ...
> ...


 
Excuses...

Once you make one, the next one comes easier.  And the one after that, easier still...

Next thing you know, you haven't worked out or trained in weeks... then months...  then years.

The real trick is not to make the FIRST excuse!


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## stoneheart (Jul 4, 2007)

I think most people in America probably pick self-defense and losing weight as one of the top two reasons to start martial arts.  Is your dojo doing a good job of providing those needs?

I realized years ago that the style I studied wasn't particularly important - it's all about the instructor.  Since I wanted to learn self-defense and to lose weight, I needed a class that had tough drills that really teach using fighting applications.  Too many dojos don't offer that despite saying they do.


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## Big Don (Sep 3, 2007)

Why do we lose students? A variety of reasons, we lose kids because; their parents don't want to pay anymore, they are pulled by their parents for behavior, they decide to do school sports instead or, for the teens, they start dating and focus on that instead.
As far as adults, we lose some to work, some to moving away, some to spouses who don't like Kenpo...
When do we lose students? There are three major times when we lose students, after they test for Yellow Belt, after they test for Brown, and after they test for Black.


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