# Sparring during testing



## Azulx

A video of a couple rounds of sparring during my 1st dan test. Feel free to comment.


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## Tez3

Is it no contact or are you just warming up?


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## Azulx

Tez3 said:


> Is it no contact or are you just warming up?



That is the maximum amount of contact we are allowed to use.


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## Kickboxer101

Got to throw more punches they use less energy than kicks so if it's 50-50 punches and kicks you'll use less than if you did 100% kicks


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## Azulx

Kickboxer101 said:


> Got to throw more punches they use less energy than kicks so if it's 50-50 punches and kicks you'll use less than if you did 100% kicks



I failed to mention this but for this  specific segment, our instructor said he wanted to see a heavy emphasis on kicking. So it will be different than the videos of me attempting to  incorporate more punches. That is only for this segment specifically.  I am still trying to add more punching to my sparring game in general.


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## Azulx

My school has an incredibly heavy emphasis on kicks, realistically I'm try to get to 30-70 or even 40-60. There will always be more emphasis on kicks. So I'm trying to be better than 10-90 when it comes to punching and kicking.


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## Tez3

Azulx said:


> That is the maximum amount of contact we are allowed to use.



Ah, I think that would frustrate me immensely.


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## Kickboxer101

Azulx said:


> I failed to mention this but for this  specific segment, our instructor said he wanted to see a heavy emphasis on kicking. So it will be different than the videos of me attempting to  incorporate more punches. That is only for this segment specifically.  I am still trying to add more punching to my sparring game in general.


Ah okay that's fair enough, a couple things I'll say on your kicks that I saw (didn't watch the whole thing nearly over my wifi allowance so can't watch to many videos lol) but at the start it looked kind of like you were jumping on your roundhouse kicks I don't know if that was intentional but yeah that's what I saw and at the end your front kicks were looking quite telegraphed but I think was due to fatigue. But it was good you had good power and speed in some exchanges


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## JR 137

Kickboxer101 said:


> Got to throw more punches they use less energy than kicks so if it's 50-50 punches and kicks you'll use less than if you did 100% kicks



It's TKD.  Not saying the OP's teacher feels this way, but my uncle's teacher told my uncle several times "Why are you throwing punches?  They don't score points."  My uncle's response "I'm not here to score points."


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## JR 137

Tez3 said:


> Is it no contact or are you just warming up?



I don't know why, but contact always seems to be lighter when watching it on video vs being the guy getting hit.

With that said, the range seems to be too far IMO.  Seems like you guys are fighting at a range where you're looking to hit the extended blocking arms instead of the actual target.  Get a step closer, and your strikes will end through the intended target instead of at blocking range.

Maybe that's the former full contact guy in me talking.


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## Kickboxer101

JR 137 said:


> It's TKD.  Not saying the OP's teacher feels this way, but my uncle's teacher told my uncle several times "Why are you throwing punches?  They don't score points."  My uncle's response "I'm not here to score points."


Yeah I'm not a fan of that at all. I mean taekwondo guys have some amazing kicks, one of my favorties marital actors is Philip Rhee and his kicks are amazing but I hate how they have their hands literally at their side in competitions honestly get one of the boxers from the Olympics to spar with one of those taekwondo guys and with their guard it will not end well. I personally taekwondo mixed with boxing would be a good combo


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## JR 137

Azulx said:


> My school has an incredibly heavy emphasis on kicks, realistically I'm try to get to 30-70 or even 40-60. There will always be more emphasis on kicks. So I'm trying to be better than 10-90 when it comes to punching and kicking.



I'm about 90/10 punches/kicks.  Purely because my kicks above thigh height suck so much.  I mainly use a front kick as a jab to get inside.  Somehow I can consistently hit people in the back of the head with a hook kick if I'm close enough though.  Just the way I'm built, I guess.


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## Tez3

Olympic TKD is all kicks and arms down by the side but I've seen very good TKD people going full contact with punches and kicks, much more my idea of sparring lol. There is a need I think to differentiate between 'proper' TKD and the Olympic stuff.
I second JR's comment about moving in closer though for sure.


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## marques

Azulx said:


> That is the maximum amount of contact we are allowed to use.


First of all, I like to see sparring and I admire your courage of exposing yourself that way.

Regarding the level of contact (which is not your choice) in my opinion should be on other level for a Black Belt. While I advise light contact, for non competitor, as a general rule, a Black Belt should know what he can do under pressure, with fear (or at least under actual danger) and, eventually, injured. Without that, one can freeze easier under real threat (if it matters).

One can discover quickly our weak and strong points. I discovered I was not fast enough to defend punches, but could quite easily survive to punches that put blood on my face. It was 10 years ago and still a good feeling about that.  Also had to spar hardly against a new fresh opponent every minute or so, for a few intense minutes. I think these experiences were the best I had after 10 years training. Besides high rank graduations (and very rare moments), training was physically suitable for old people. I still like that way...


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## JR 137

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah I'm not a fan of that at all. I mean taekwondo guys have some amazing kicks, one of my favorties marital actors is Philip Rhee and his kicks are amazing but I hate how they have their hands literally at their side in competitions honestly get one of the boxers from the Olympics to spar with one of those taekwondo guys and with their guard it will not end well. I personally taekwondo mixed with boxing would be a good combo



As Tez said, there's a difference between Olympic type TKD and (I guess) more traditional TKD.  All the TKD schools around me are Olympic style, and I thought that's what all TKD is like.  I met some guys in my college martial arts club who were nothing like that.  They were far closer to what I was doing at the time (Kyokushin).


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## JR 137

marques said:


> First of all, I like to see sparring and I admire your courage of exposing yourself that way.
> 
> Regarding the level of contact (which is not your choice) in my opinion should be on other level for a Black Belt. While I advise light contact, for non competitor, as a general rule, a Black Belt should know what he can do under pressure, with fear (or at least under actual danger) and, eventually, injured. Without that, one can freeze easier under real threat (if it matters).
> 
> One can discover quickly our weak and strong points. I discovered I was not fast enough to defend punches, but could quite easily survive to punches that put blood on my face. It was 10 years ago and still a good feeling about that.  Also had to spar hardly against a new fresh opponent every minute or so, for a few intense minutes. I think these experiences were the best I had after 10 years training. Besides high rank graduations (and very rare moments), training was physically suitable for old people. I still like that way...



I agree with what you say, but keep in mind he wasn't a black belt yet in the video.  He was testing for his 1st dan.


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## JowGaWolf

Azulx said:


> I failed to mention this but for this  specific segment, our instructor said he wanted to see a heavy emphasis on kicking. So it will be different than the videos of me attempting to  incorporate more punches. That is only for this segment specifically.  I am still trying to add more punching to my sparring game in general.


Good to hear.  For a moment there I thought you went back to your old ways of just kicking. lol. I wish you guys could grab legs.  It would change your perspective on how to kick and when to kick.


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## Azulx

JR 137 said:


> I don't know why, but contact always seems to be lighter when watching it on video vs being the guy getting hit.
> 
> With that said, the range seems to be too far IMO.  Seems like you guys are fighting at a range where you're looking to hit the extended blocking arms instead of the actual target.  Get a step closer, and your strikes will end through the intended target instead of at blocking range.
> 
> Maybe that's the former full contact guy in me talking.



Thank you for pointing this out. Although this level of contact is moderate, it feels much harder than what it looks on video. The range thing is something taht I think we all struggle with. There are so many missed strikes. We hit the lead hand frequently or wiff and hit nothing. Some of us are better than others and closing in, this is something I am trying to improve on.


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## Azulx

Kickboxer101 said:


> Yeah I'm not a fan of that at all. I mean taekwondo guys have some amazing kicks, one of my favorties marital actors is Philip Rhee and his kicks are amazing but I hate how they have their hands literally at their side in competitions honestly get one of the boxers from the Olympics to spar with one of those taekwondo guys and with their guard it will not end well. I personally taekwondo mixed with boxing would be a good combo



I actually had a long talk with an Olympic TKD guy about their sparring. We talked about the guard that they use. Basically what I got from the conversation is that Olympic TKD is just the boxing version of kicks. You can't kick in  Olympic Boxing , and you can't really punch in Olympic TKD. As far as the Olympic Boxer destroying the TKD guy it would depend what the match is, a boxing match, sure. A TKD match highly unlikely. A free sparring match , this is where it gets tricky. A boxer won't automatically win because he has better hands than the TKD guy. He still has to worry about lightning fast kicks, coming at him from various angles and directions. That match wouldn't be so black and white. Just because they practice sport sparring with their hands down doesn't mean they are unable to put them up, if the rules of the game change.


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## Azulx

Tez3 said:


> Ah, I think that would frustrate me immensely.


\

It can be, but we spar every day and I honestly don't know if I could do that much full contact. Although I wouldn't mind it every once in a while. I won't get any of that full contact stuff at my school though. I would have to go to one of the local MMA gyms, there nothing but sport Karate schools in my area.


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## Azulx

marques said:


> First of all, I like to see sparring and I admire your courage of exposing yourself that way.
> 
> Regarding the level of contact (which is not your choice) in my opinion should be on other level for a Black Belt. While I advise light contact, for non competitor, as a general rule, a Black Belt should know what he can do under pressure, with fear (or at least under actual danger) and, eventually, injured. Without that, one can freeze easier under real threat (if it matters).
> 
> One can discover quickly our weak and strong points. I discovered I was not fast enough to defend punches, but could quite easily survive to punches that put blood on my face. It was 10 years ago and still a good feeling about that.  Also had to spar hardly against a new fresh opponent every minute or so, for a few intense minutes. I think these experiences were the best I had after 10 years training. Besides high rank graduations (and very rare moments), training was physically suitable for old people. I still like that way...



Thank You. I just received my 1st dan today. I hope in my journey as a MA I do get these stressful situations during training where I have to perform under high levels of stress. Like I said I have been 1st dan for about 4 hours, so anything that a black belt should possess I have from now until my instructor feels that i am ready to test again to achieve.


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## Azulx

JowGaWolf said:


> Good to hear. For a moment there I thought you went back to your old ways of just kicking. lol. I wish you guys could grab legs. It would change your perspective on how to kick and when to kick.



I wish we could too, but like I stated in a previous forum entry my instructor is somewhat paranoid about that. Mainly because he was swept that way and hurt his shoulder, and doesn't want that to happen to his students.


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## Tez3

Azulx said:


> I actually had a long talk with an Olympic TKD guy about their sparring. We talked about the guard that they use. Basically what I got from the conversation is that Olympic TKD is just the boxing version of kicks. You can't kick in  Olympic Boxing , and you can't really punch in Olympic TKD. As far as the Olympic Boxer destroying the TKD guy it would depend what the match is, a boxing match, sure. A TKD match highly unlikely. A free sparring match , this is where it gets tricky. A boxer won't automatically win because he has better hands than the TKD guy. He still has to worry about lightning fast kicks, coming at him from various angles and directions. That match wouldn't be so black and white. Just because they practice sport sparring with their hands down doesn't mean they are unable to put them up, if the rules of the game change.




I always have to laugh when people suggest style A would beat style B, it's unrealistic and is akin to those video games. As you say to hit an Olympic TKD person you'd have to get close and those kicks would make sure you didn't. If they have quick kicks they will also have quick hands when needed, it's like the Judo competitors in the Olympics just because they are bound to the rules in the competition doesn't mean they can't do all the mean stuff when needed.
On a side note we watched a boxing final from Rio last night, it was a farce. The Russian boxer was given the decision over the Azeri despite some very poor boxing, hanging on, going backwards and being on the ropes. He was defensive all the way through the other attacking. The crown booed the decision and the medal ceremony so perhaps the way a boxer can win against a TKD person is to have very poor boxing judges!


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## marques

JR 137 said:


> I agree with what you say, but keep in mind he wasn't a black belt yet in the video.  He was testing for his 1st dan.


But now he his, without that kind of test (in class, at least).

A black belt should actually DO the job, up to knowing how to do it in a safe environment. So, in my opinion, these tests should start before black belt. Just a few, with a clear purpose, 'cause it is not funny and the outcome, 'random'.

Nevertheless, it is optional and just an opinion (from an average guy). It all depends on where we train and for what purpose, age...

And better that (always light contact) than just go hard getting injuries and without technical progress...

PS: Azulx, you asked opinions. I am sure you take it easy. If you posted yourself being tested, an opinion of a 'keyboard master' does not do any bad to you.


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## Kickboxer101

Azulx said:


> I actually had a long talk with an Olympic TKD guy about their sparring. We talked about the guard that they use. Basically what I got from the conversation is that Olympic TKD is just the boxing version of kicks. You can't kick in  Olympic Boxing , and you can't really punch in Olympic TKD. As far as the Olympic Boxer destroying the TKD guy it would depend what the match is, a boxing match, sure. A TKD match highly unlikely. A free sparring match , this is where it gets tricky. A boxer won't automatically win because he has better hands than the TKD guy. He still has to worry about lightning fast kicks, coming at him from various angles and directions. That match wouldn't be so black and white. Just because they practice sport sparring with their hands down doesn't mean they are unable to put them up, if the rules of the game change.


No but if a taekwondo guy fights a boxer like that with his hands at his sides it'll be a lot easier to punch him than if he had a guard


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## marques

Kickboxer101 said:


> No but if a taekwondo guy fights a boxer like that with his hands at his sides it'll be a lot easier to punch him than if he had a guard


Some boxers also fight hands down. I watched on the ongoing Olympics.  While I agree with you, everything is possible. For instance, if the taekwondo guy keeps the distance with kicks and footwork, hands down is ok. The success depends more on how skilled is the TKD guy and boxer guy, than where the hands are.

Besides that, TKD hands down is just to make clear that TKD is not karate nor boxing, right?


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## Tony Dismukes

I'm not a TKD practitioner, so take my perspective with the appropriate grains of salt.

The first thing that I notice is the range, especially on the punches. Just because you're going light contact doesn't mean you have to punch and kick from out of range. More than 90% of the punches thrown (both by you and your opponents) couldn't possibly have landed even if the target stood perfectly still and didn't block. I'm not talking about being just a couple of inches short either - they were often a foot or more out of range. The kicks were better, but some of them still seemed to be targeting the arms rather than the head or body.

The next thing I noticed is that you and your opponent are doing a lot of "taking turns", i.e. fighter A advances with a short series of kicks while fighter B retreats, then (usually when they reach the edge of the mat), fighter B attacks with a short sequence while Fighter A retreats - back and forth. It's a really good thing to break that mindset. Get used to working on counterattacks, stop-hits, setups, maintaining continuous pressure when you can, working on changing angles and broken rhythm when you can't. Fighting should not be a turn based game. On the plus side, you were less guilty of that than you were in the video from your first geup test, so I can see improvement.


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## drop bear

Kickboxer101 said:


> No but if a taekwondo guy fights a boxer like that with his hands at his sides it'll be a lot easier to punch him than if he had a guard



Depends when they go up and down.

This was a while back. But Steve Vick used to smash people in the kickboxing circuit

So there is a level where you can get away with it.


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## Tony Dismukes

drop bear said:


> Depends when they go up and down.
> 
> This was a while back. But Steve Vick used to smash people in the kickboxing circuit
> 
> So there is a level where you can get away with it.


Yeah, there are a lot of good fighters who tend to keep their hands low. The key is having the experience to know when and where it is safe to drop the hands and when they need to be up. For those people who are not experienced professional fighters, it's generally safer to keep the hands up by default.


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## Kickboxer101

Tony Dismukes said:


> Yeah, there are a lot of good fighters who tend to keep their hands low. The key is having the experience to know when and where it is safe to drop the hands and when they need to be up. For those people who are not experienced professional fighters, it's generally safer to keep the hands up by default.


Anderson silvas experience didn't help save him


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## Tez3

Poor OP he posts a video of himself which is always brave on here and we are now getting MMA videos.
Azulx is looking for constructive criticism not a replay of an MMA fight.
I'd say congratulations and well done for gaining your blackbelt and now the hard work begins lol!


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## JowGaWolf

drop bear said:


> Depends when they go up and down.
> 
> This was a while back. But Steve Vick used to smash people in the kickboxing circuit
> 
> So there is a level where you can get away with it.


Yes there is a level where you can get away with it. (The music that is)


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## Gnarlie

I agree on the distance issue. Even if you guys wanted to make more contact, you couldn't from where you are.

If this is the most contact you're allowed to make maybe think about shoving on some boxing gloves and a mouth guard against a buddy who has good control, and try to hit each other's chins / noses / heads. Educational, and makes kicking as an entry strategy naturally have better distance. 

Essentially, stop backing off and start circling and sidestepping. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Kickboxer101

Tez3 said:


> Poor OP he posts a video of himself which is always brave on here and we are now getting MMA videos.
> Azulx is looking for constructive criticism not a replay of an MMA fight.
> I'd say congratulations and well done for gaining your blackbelt and now the hard work begins lol!



Already gave my constructive criticism so now I'm discussing something else that's being discussed.


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> Already gave my constructive criticism so now I'm discussing something else that's being discussed.


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## Kickboxer101

Tez3 said:


> View attachment 20058


Cute


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## Tez3

Kickboxer101 said:


> Cute


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## Tames D

Talk about thread drift.


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## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> Poor OP he posts a video of himself which is always brave on here and we are now getting MMA videos.
> Azulx is looking for constructive criticism not a replay of an MMA fight.
> I'd say congratulations and well done for gaining your blackbelt and now the hard work begins lol!



It is the same thing.  Op can look at how top fighters apply elements he may be able to use. 

Moontasori.  May get a look in before this thread is over as well.

There is a lot of common elements in fighting. And there are lots of top fighters who are conveniently filmed using them on you tube.


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## Tez3

drop bear said:


> It is the same thing.  Op can look at how top fighters apply elements he may be able to use.
> 
> Moontasori.  May get a look in before this thread is over as well.
> 
> There is a lot of common elements in fighting. And there are lots of top fighters who are conveniently filmed using them on you tube.



Still off topic though because if the OP wanted to look at videos he will, without us telling him. In a grading though he will be expected to spar in the style he is grading in so MMA or other fighting videos would not be of use. The OP posted asking for a critique on his sparring for his black belt grading, he'd said the instructor wanted them to spar the way he was in his video. Yes, in my opinion it's somewhat limited but that's what they do. For him to add elements from other fighting styles ( which to my mind would help) might have resulted in a fail in a grading.


'Moontasori.' sorry don't know what this is.


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## drop bear

Tez3 said:


> Still off topic though because if the OP wanted to look at videos he will, without us telling him. In a grading though he will be expected to spar in the style he is grading in so MMA or other fighting videos would not be of use. The OP posted asking for a critique on his sparring for his black belt grading, he'd said the instructor wanted them to spar the way he was in his video. Yes, in my opinion it's somewhat limited but that's what they do. For him to add elements from other fighting styles ( which to my mind would help) might have resulted in a fail in a grading.
> 
> 
> 'Moontasori.' sorry don't know what this is.



Kind of" absorb what is useful" idea. (Ghandi said that by the way)

Moontasari is a tkd monster who is bashing his way through the ufc at the moment.





Doesn't bounce. Which is interesting.


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## JR 137

Congratulations on earning your black belt.  It's definitely a milestone achievement, but it's not the end of the road by any means.  Actually, it's a new beginning.  You proved you're proficient in the basics of your art and you're ready to learn more advanced stuff.  IMO 1st dan is where you start really learning what your art has to offer.  Lay people think black belt is some sort of mastery.  It's nonsense; 1st dan means you've moved passed the very basics and now you're ready to start learning.

Some students struggle with that transition, and some teachers struggle with teaching black belts differently than kyu ranks.


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## Jaeimseu

Kickboxer101 said:


> No but if a taekwondo guy fights a boxer like that with his hands at his sides it'll be a lot easier to punch him than if he had a guard



If a tkd guy fights a boxer in a tkd match, he can keep his hands wherever he wants and still win. Different rules...

If a baseball pitcher used the same throwing motion to play quarterback, he'd take lots of sacks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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