# Graphic Novels - The Library - Pornography



## michaeledward (Nov 15, 2006)

I saw this story on the Richmond Times Dispatch. 

Seems the local library has recongized that young people are enjoying graphic novels as reading material. The library has begun expanding their collection of such books for their clients.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servle...TD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191693034



> Among Crump's new acquisitions was "Blankets" by Craig Thompson and "Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic" by Alison Bechdel, two semi-autobiographical accounts of the respective authors' turbulent childhoods that include ruminations on a strict religious upbringing and homosexuality.
> 
> Those two novels touch off what Crump said was the first challenge of library materials in the library's 16-year history. Parents complained that the books, which include pictures of a naked couple, could be read by children, attracted by the comic book-like drawings.
> 
> "My concern does not lie with the content of the novels, rather my concern is with the illustrations and their availability to children and the community," said Marshall resident Louise Mills during a recent public hearing reported in The Marshall Democrat-News. "Does this community want our public library to continue to use tax dollars to purchase pornography?"


 
I have not read these books. I did recently buy the graphic version of the 911 Commission Report. It is a fascinating way to gain insight into the events surrounding 911. I have not completed this version, but both my younger daughter and wife have. 

Does nudity in a graphic novel constitute pornography?  Isn't that pushing the 'I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it' definition? 

Fess up ... who else reads graphic novels?


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## bushidomartialarts (Nov 15, 2006)

i read graphic novels, but i avoid naughty stuff because i can't read japanese.  everybody knows all the really juicy comic book porn is from the land of the rising sun.

to address the specific point more seriously, the library should take steps to file the graphic novels in the adult section, and then trust parents to supervise their children appropriately.  i know, i know, it's an impossible dream but still...


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## Drac (Nov 15, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> I saw this story on the Richmond Times Dispatch.
> 
> Seems the local library has recongized that young people are enjoying graphic novels as reading material. The library has begun expanding their collection of such books for their clients


 
Now WHERE did I put that library card???


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## Marginal (Nov 15, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> Does nudity in a graphic novel constitute pornography? Isn't that pushing the 'I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it' definition?
> 
> Fess up ... who else reads graphic novels?


Depends on the graphic novel. Berserk or Sin City probably shouldn't be read by children. GN's from the Japanese consulate (See the benevolent Japanese take over Nanking to save the Chinese from themselves!!!!)should not have ever have been made etc.


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## Drac (Nov 15, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> Fess up ... who else reads graphic novels?


 
You mean those color novels of wide eye little hotties cavorting around in their school girl uniforms with skirts so short you can see their thongs, or lack of??? Not me....


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## MA-Caver (Nov 15, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> Does nudity in a graphic novel constitute pornography?  Isn't that pushing the 'I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it' definition?
> 
> Fess up ... who else reads graphic novels?



One man's nudity is another's pornography and another man's art. 
It's all how YOU define it. 

I read graphic novels and have a few myself. They're of Batman and Predator and Batman vs Predator variety among a few. I do not have any of the graphic "uh-uh-uh-uhhggh" type novels nor care to... But that's just me.


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## Drac (Nov 15, 2006)

MA-Caver said:


> One man's nudity is another's pornography and another man's art.It's all how YOU define it.


 
Well said Caver...


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 15, 2006)

I'm  a big fan of Anime but avoid the Hentai.  From the Anime interest I started picking up some Manga.  Right now I'm reading Balltle Angel: Alita and have a few Ranma 1/2


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## Bob Hubbard (Nov 15, 2006)

I've got 3 large bookshelves dedicated to them, both American and Japanese.


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## ArmorOfGod (Nov 15, 2006)

My library has a collected works of Crumb.  This collection has very vivid stories of encounters between family members in detailed, close up drawings.  I have read some of Crumb's comics, but not the sexual stuff, much less the incest comics.
The pics would easily fall into triple x categories.
I don't think anyone has complained at my library because no one has checked it out as it is always in the same place in the "new release" section when I go there.

AoG


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## arnisador (Nov 16, 2006)

I read Fun Home. It's very good, but not for kids.


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## michaeledward (Nov 16, 2006)

Some people seem to be describing books that are erotica in nature. I don't usually read fiction, and certainly not Graphic Novels. I have to imagine - although I may be complete in error on this - that Graphic Novels are not Erotica, but Erotica may be Graphic. 

Without having seen the text referenced, and projecting my own prejudice on to the quote, that the texts contain nudity. But I do not consider nudity to be sexual. And much that is sexual is in no way nude. 

(As an aside - didn't a teacher in Texas recently get dismissed because of a field trip to a museum where there were nude statues?)

In any case ... we do not practice censorship concerning literature in our house. If my daughter has a desire to read a book, fiction or non fiction, we absolutely support it. We have had some interesting conversations based on some of the text she has read, or attempted to read. And, we have had to stand on our principles and let her read some trash. 

It's a shame our libraries are subject to the rages of the intolerant.


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## Kacey (Nov 16, 2006)

Graphic novels grew out of comic books - the first ones I saw were compilations of story lines from comic books printed on higher-quality paperstock, with richer colors - in the case of Elfquest, the original comic was printed in black and white, on newsprint, and the graphic novel was in color, on quality paper.  From that start as a sub-genre of comic books, it grew into a genre of its own.

It was about that point when it became necessary to buy 4, 5, 6, or more titles a month to keep up with one storyline.  At that point, many collectors who couldn't keep up with the storylines across multiple titles (or who didn't want to) began to clamor for compilations and reprints - also adding to the number of graphic novels on the market, to the point that some storylines began to come out in graphic novels only.

At the same time, the characters in many comic books developed proportions that were less and less realistic - the men became impossibly buff, and the women impossibly proportioned - the one place where skinny was out.  As the proportions of both genders became less realistic, the costumes became skimpier... and it grew from there, with influence from within and without the comic industry.  

It was about then that I quit buying comic books - a combination of the impossible appearances of the characters and the need to buy multiple titles, many of which I wouldn't read otherwise.  But I still pick up graphic novels occasionally to check on the storylines and see how and what my favorite characters are doing.


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## matt.m (Nov 16, 2006)

Back in the 80's the big envelope pusher was the Darkknight Returns.....I have most of Frank Miller's collection.  Very good stuff.  I never got into Japanese Animae, just not my cup of tea.

I liked the Graphic Novels because they took the more "Adult" approach to a heroes story more than the typical monthly run.  But it is like Kacey said "Graphic novels used to be no more than a bunch of issue bound together"


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## Eternal White Belt (Nov 17, 2006)

Unfortunately, most people still have the notion that "Comics are for kids".  They fail to realize that the kids who grew up reading comics did exactly that - they grew up.  Some of them are now writing and drawing the comics they grew up reading.  They brought with them more mature ideas - they wanted the characters they loved to advance and mature as they did.  25+ years after Frank Miller's _Ronin_ and _The Dark Knight_, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' _Watchmen_, and Neil Gaiman's _Sandman_, comics still have the stigma of 'kid's stuff' about them.

When will the general public realize that all things change?


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## Drac (Nov 17, 2006)

matt.m said:


> Back in the 80's the big envelope pusher was the Darkknight Returns.


 
A good novel...I own it and a couple by Marvel Comics of the X-Men and The New Mutants..Good stuff...


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## Don Roley (Nov 17, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> It's a shame our libraries are subject to the rages of the intolerant.



I think that in terms of a library, they should tread very carefully. They take money from the community in the form of taxes. So the community does have a right to speak up about what they stock. And when it comes to putting possibly sexual stuff in front of kids, best to err on the side of caution. If the parents want their kids to see that type of stuff, they can buy it themselves. And with a firm policy in place about things like this, it counters NAMBLA from ever getting a chance to try putting their stuff in.

Graphic novels are just outgrowths of comic books. Some are great, some not so great. The Dark Night Returns is the standard by which all others are judged. Those of us that grew up reading comic books enjoy reading more adult versions of them. Sometimes that means a bit more of an "R" rating. Sometimes a lot more. I tend to get a few by people like Neil Gaiman and the "Astrocity" series every trip to America.

And that is the problem when people think that cartoons equals "for kids." It is not just graphic novels. I still remember the movie "Cool World" and watching some mother drag her kid out of the theatre when the sex scene started.


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## Drac (Nov 17, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> I still remember the movie "Cool World" and watching some mother drag her kid out of the theatre when the sex scene started.


 
This Mother's Mom probably got fooled into thinking "Fritz the Cat
was a kiddie movie way and took her...


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## Hand Sword (Nov 17, 2006)

Was Kim Bassinger the cartoon girl?


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## arnisador (Nov 17, 2006)

A graphic novel can be like _Maus_, about the Holocaust, which was actually fairly influential. The Fun Home one mentioned is an autobiography of a lesbian cartoonist who draws a strip on the lives of lesbian characters. She did her autobiography in the format she knows best.

My son has many graphic novels. Most are still just several issues of a comic bound together, but others are intended for that format. Things like _Sin City_, _The 300_, and _The Watchmen_ (all made into or being made into films) were intended to be graphic novels from the beginning.

The medium is not the message!


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## MA-Caver (Nov 17, 2006)

Hand Sword said:


> Was Kim Bassinger the cartoon girl?



Yep, her (character) name aptly was "Holli Would"


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## Drac (Nov 18, 2006)

MA-Caver said:


> Yep, her (character) name aptly was "Holli Would"


 
Hell I would too...


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## Hand Sword (Nov 19, 2006)

Who was the dark haired one that went with the cop?


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## bydand (Nov 20, 2006)

FearlessFreep said:


> I'm  a big fan of Anime but avoid the Hentai.  From the Anime interest I started picking up some Manga.  Right now I'm reading Balltle Angel: Alita and have a few Ranma 1/2



OK I'm going to show my ignorance here.  Any faint of heart should turn away now, thanks.
Anime: I know
Hentai: Not a clue
Manga: see Hentai
The others I am guess are titles of individual Graphic Novels.


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## Don Roley (Nov 20, 2006)

bydand said:


> OK I'm going to show my ignorance here.  Any faint of heart should turn away now, thanks.
> Anime: I know
> Hentai: Not a clue
> Manga: see Hentai
> The others I am guess are titles of individual Graphic Novels.



Hentai means perversion and seems to be used among a lot of people outside of Japan for anything Japanese and pornagraphic.

Manga means comic book in Japanese.


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## bydand (Nov 20, 2006)

Don Roley said:


> Hentai means perversion and seems to be used among a lot of people outside of Japan for anything Japanese and pornagraphic.
> 
> Manga means comic book in Japanese.



Thank you! :asian:


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## FearlessFreep (Nov 20, 2006)

bydand said:


> OK I'm going to show my ignorance here.  Any faint of heart should turn away now, thanks.
> Anime: I know
> Hentai: Not a clue
> Manga: see Hentai
> The others I am guess are titles of individual Graphic Novels.



I've usually seen 'hentai' used as a term for pornographic anime.

Manga are Japanese comic books but probably fall more under the term 'graphic novels'.  A lot of anime were based on manga


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## michaeledward (Nov 20, 2006)

I know very little about this type of literature. 

I heard an interview yesterday with Brian Vaughn. In the discussion, he mentioned a most interesting story, "Pride of Baghdad". I understand he is working on a screen play for "Y - the Last Man" and is about to begin working on a screen play for 'Ex Machina".

Has no one read these? Are they just big comic books? Or is there more to them? 

Again, my exposer to this medium is the 911 Commission report Graphic version. Anyone read that?


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## Drac (Nov 20, 2006)

Hand Sword said:


> Who was the dark haired one that went with the cop?


 
Lonette or Lawnette..Doable VERY doable..


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## arnisador (Nov 20, 2006)

michaeledward said:


> Again, my exposer to this medium is the 911 Commission report Graphic version. Anyone read that?




I read a review of it, and it looked interesting, but I haven't seen it in a store yet.


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