# Kids and weapons



## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

At what age do you start your children in weapon systems?
For us it has been ever since they can hold a sword and run around.


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## CB Jones (Jul 12, 2020)

Where my son trains it isn't about a he but rank.  I think they start with the Bo at green belt.


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## Headhunter (Jul 12, 2020)

angelariz said:


> At what age do you start your children in weapon systems?
> For us it has been ever since they can hold a sword and run around.


I don’t do weapons but frankly I wouldn’t feel comfy teaching anyone under 18 how to use any type of weapon


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> I don’t do weapons but frankly I wouldn’t feel comfy teaching anyone under 18 how to use any type of weapon


FMA is a weapons based system. The control and respect for a weapon and its dangers are fostered from early on. That being said, there are some adults I wont teach because they are unsafe or dishonorable.  My kids will rise to the standard i set. They always do.


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

CB Jones said:


> Where my son trains it isn't about a he but rank.  I think they start with the Bo at green belt.


Both and Jo are excellent beginner weapons. I like using walking sticks too for some lessons.


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

The picture I shared was of us knife sparring at a Paul Vunak PFS gathering.


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## Headhunter (Jul 12, 2020)

angelariz said:


> FMA is a weapons based system. The control and respect for a weapon and its dangers are fostered from early on. That being said, there are some adults I wont teach because they are unsafe or dishonorable.  My kids will rise to the standard i set. They always do.


That’s fine but personally I don’t think teaching any children how to use a knife in today’s climate is a good idea as kids their personality can change very quick one month they can be sweet and quiet the next month they could very angry and bitter depending on circumstances and all it takes is one teenager to snap and bring a knife to school one day and well that on its own is terrifying but even worse if he has actual training on how to use it. And that’s not saying anything on your teaching but the whole “no such thing as a bad student” line that’s not true.

no offence intended just stating my view on it


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> That’s fine but personally I don’t think teaching any children how to use a knife in today’s climate is a good idea as kids their personality can change very quick one month they can be sweet and quiet the next month they could very angry and bitter depending on circumstances and all it takes is one teenager to snap and bring a knife to school one day and well that on its own is terrifying but even worse if he has actual training on how to use it. And that’s not saying anything on your teaching but the whole “no such thing as a bad student” line that’s not true.
> 
> no offence intended just stating my view on it


My kids carry a knife everywhere. It is a tool. Everyone I knew in HS carried a box cutter. The tool is irrelevant.  There are disgusting people out there hitting people in the head with bike locks.  The tool is irrelevant.  Respect and honor must be taught by example and by demanding it from my people. Anyone that shows disrespect to training weapons or partners are dismissed. I've only dismissed one person from weapons training and he was over 18. I understand that is your opinion and if I found immature kids coming to train with me, I will PT them.


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## angelariz (Jul 12, 2020)

The Jo and Tonfa used to be the first weapons in Bu jutsu back in the day. Ah...good times.


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## isshinryuronin (Jul 12, 2020)

Kids by definition are immature.  It's just a matter of to what degree.  I was raised by kind of strict parents and was, as kids go, nice and responsible.  But I sure did some stupid things!   No way would I teach knife.  Kids (even the "good" ones like I was) are too prone to show off, take chances and otherwise make poor decisions.  I don't know any kid that could resist showing off their "chucks."  That's what kids do.   I would teach a kid bo at advanced green belt (before brown).  That's about the safest weapon and not especially glamorous to a kid.  Sai, nunchaku, tonfa, sticks, I think is OK for 15-16 years old at brown or black belt.  Knives, I would teach very selectively at 18 and up.

Now, a few hundred years ago, Samurai boys learned the sword after years of practice with bokken (wood sword.)  But that was a different culture, highly disciplined and regimented, and death was something many saw first hand and respected.  It was part of their way of life, not a hobby.  Just as Filipino or other cultures' kids would be comfortable with a machete or spear.  For them, weapons are not "cool" or "fun", but a way of life and everyday survival - a whole different mindset.

Kids have enough to try to master, empty handed.  No need to rush them into weapons.


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## Buka (Jul 12, 2020)

Complex issue, kids and weapons. Depends on a lot of factors. Ages of kids, type of weapon, legality in that area, who's teaching, how they're teaching etc. I used to see a lot of kids compete in weapons Kata back in the day. I don't know if that's even done any more.

I think there's also a difference if the person doing the teaching is teaching his own children in his own dojo.

I could be wrong about all of this. Kids....they are those loud, sticky things, right?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 12, 2020)

angelariz said:


> At what age do you start your children in weapon systems?
> For us it has been ever since they can hold a sword and run around.


Are you asking what age children start learning weapons in our system, or what age we would (or did) start teaching our own kids weapons?

The way that I read it is the second, but everyone's responding like you answered the first. But I'll answer the second-I don't have kids, but my plan is to start teaching them weapons somewhere between 6 and 10...the specifics of that will depend on how mature they are at that point, and how well they've adapted to other stuff I've taught them (plan on teaching mindfulness stuff before that). And a large part of the early training will just be on how to properly respect weapons, but I want them to understand that and basic usage since it's pretty easy for a kid to grab a kitchen knife or a golf club and don't want them hurting themselves.

The above isn't how I would do it in a dojo, since they wouldn't be my own kids. Luckily I don't run one so I won't have to worry about that.


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## Headhunter (Jul 13, 2020)

isshinryuronin said:


> Kids by definition are immature.  It's just a matter of to what degree.  I was raised by kind of strict parents and was, as kids go, nice and responsible.  But I sure did some stupid things!   No way would I teach knife.  Kids (even the "good" ones like I was) are too prone to show off, take chances and otherwise make poor decisions.  I don't know any kid that could resist showing off their "chucks."  That's what kids do.   I would teach a kid bo at advanced green belt (before brown).  That's about the safest weapon and not especially glamorous to a kid.  Sai, nunchaku, tonfa, sticks, I think is OK for 15-16 years old at brown or black belt.  Knives, I would teach very selectively at 18 and up.
> 
> Now, a few hundred years ago, Samurai boys learned the sword after years of practice with bokken (wood sword.)  But that was a different culture, highly disciplined and regimented, and death was something many saw first hand and respected.  It was part of their way of life, not a hobby.  Just as Filipino or other cultures' kids would be comfortable with a machete or spear.  For them, weapons are not "cool" or "fun", but a way of life and everyday survival - a whole different mindset.
> 
> Kids have enough to try to master, empty handed.  No need to rush them into weapons.


Yep also the fact you’ll see those kids for a few hours a week you can’t truly know their real character and could just be putting on an act in front of teachers but is actually a real horrible person to people in his class.


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## Danny T (Jul 13, 2020)

Kids training anything dangerous is a complex issue.

Age and rank shouldn't be the major consideration but rather maturity. Making appropriate decisions, understanding the proximity of others and objects having the ability to respond to the environment being aware of the correct time and location to behave and knowing when to act, according to the circumstances.
I do teach many of the kids who train with me stick striking fundamentals and a lot of the stick movement attribute drills. I let them earn the training in weapons, through following directions, attitude, and how they present themselves throughout the other training.


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## Steve (Jul 13, 2020)

FWIW fundamentally, i think any training for kids needs to be grounded in a sport context, and have philosophical issues teaching them "self defense."   Like rugby, soccer, football, baseball, or any other sport, a sport martial art (like TKD, wrestling, Judo, kyokushin karate, or BJJ) gives the art purpose outside of fighting on the streets.  Developmentally, this is pretty important, IMO.  It helps kids compartmentalize their training, and gives it purpose outside of kicking someone's ***. So, provided the weapons are being trained in teh context of some sport, I have no problems. 

To illustrate the point, my older kids were both in JROTC and both were on the rifle team.  Zero concerns with this.  I would also have no concerns if they were interested in participating in a paintball league.  But I would have a lot of concerns if they were being run through combat exercises or paramilitary style training to prepare them physically and mentally to kill people, even if it's couched as "self defense" training.

Big picture, I have much more trouble with any sport or MA style that involves consistent blows to the head, even if they're not significant blows.


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## Buka (Jul 13, 2020)

Somewhat related, interesting though..

Right to bear ... nunchucks? Federal judge strikes down ban on weapon as violation of Second Amendment


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## KenpoMaster805 (Jul 13, 2020)

The kids dont do weapon until 3rd degree adult brown we do staff set when your adult 3rd brown


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## Steve (Jul 14, 2020)

Buka said:


> Somewhat related, interesting though..
> 
> Right to bear ... nunchucks? Federal judge strikes down ban on weapon as violation of Second Amendment


And in even more related news, should bears be receiving weapons training?


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## Headhunter (Jul 14, 2020)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> The kids dont do weapon until 3rd degree adult brown we do staff set when your adult 3rd brown


Yeah but the Kenpo weapons sets especially staff set is a joke anyway so you can teach children that and they still couldn’t use it


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## Buka (Jul 14, 2020)

Steve said:


> And in even more related news, should bears be receiving weapons training?



Oh, this does beg the question......If you give that bear a pair of gunchucks..

 
In a state where guns are legal and chucks are not, does this impinge upon his rights to keep and bear arms?


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## Steve (Jul 14, 2020)

Buka said:


> Oh, this does beg the question......If you give that bear a pair of gunchucks..
> 
> View attachment 22985
> In a state where guns are legal and chucks are not, does this impinge upon his rights to keep and bear arms?


"Bear arms."  I see what you did there.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 14, 2020)

angelariz said:


> At what age do you start your children in weapon systems?
> For us it has been ever since they can hold a sword and run around.


For us, it's when they have enough capability with the basic foundations and the maturity to hold a weapon. Unfortunately not all kids mature at the same rate.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Jul 15, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> Yeah but the Kenpo weapons sets especially staff set is a joke anyway so you can teach children that and they still couldn’t use it



Its jot a joke


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Its jot a joke


Yes it is. It’s an absolutely ridiculous  set which has no basic in reality. Kenpo is a great system but it’s weapon work is not a good part of it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 15, 2020)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> Its jot a joke


Just in case you're referring to a different one-I know some kenpo schools create their own weapon sets and students don't even know sometimes it's different than the original, or just differences from sub-styles; would you be able to find a video of the staff/bo set?


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## angelariz (Jul 16, 2020)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Just in case you're referring to a different one-I know some kenpo schools create their own weapon sets and students don't even know sometimes it's different than the original, or just differences from sub-styles; would you be able to find a video of the staff/bo set?


Why not start another topic instead of hijacking this one to insult other peoples systems? This post is not about kenpo or its whether the weapon sets are useful to you. Any training is better than none. Most kids today are sitting in front of a television. If a bo or Jo set gets them moving that is an accomplishment all unto itself.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 16, 2020)

angelariz said:


> Why not start another topic instead of hijacking this one to insult other peoples systems? This post is not about kenpo or its whether the weapon sets are useful to you. Any training is better than none. Most kids today are sitting in front of a television. If a bo or Jo set gets them moving that is an accomplishment all unto itself.


So 
A: i haven't said anything negative or insulting about kenpo or it's weapons systems.

B: even if I was trying to insult kenpo, I'm not going to start a separate thread to insult another member/his system. I'm surprised you somehow think that's better. 

C: thread drift happens in most threads that goes past a page. If you don't believe me explore the site a bit.

D: Probably the most important one-its relevant to this thread. If people are learning a performance set vs. practical weapon usage, those are two different things. And people would argue the age for both differently. So if people are debating weapon usage for kids, and some are thinking person on person, some or thinking forms only, and others are thinking performance forms only, that matters. Which just knowing the systems some practice on here, I think there is that difference in mindset, but I'm not going to assume performance form only for someone if I don't know for sure what he's referring to.


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## Headhunter (Jul 16, 2020)

angelariz said:


> Why not start another topic instead of hijacking this one to insult other peoples systems? This post is not about kenpo or its whether the weapon sets are useful to you. Any training is better than none. Most kids today are sitting in front of a television. If a bo or Jo set gets them moving that is an accomplishment all unto itself.


As for me....I’m not insulting other people’s systems....I’m insulting my own system. I’m a Kenpo third dan black belt so yeah I’m happy to say my opinion on my own system that the set yes fine it’s a set learn it cool it’s nice to learn but for practicality it’s not useful in that regard


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## Headhunter (Jul 16, 2020)

angelariz said:


> Why not start another topic instead of hijacking this one to insult other peoples systems? This post is not about kenpo or its whether the weapon sets are useful to you. Any training is better than none. Most kids today are sitting in front of a television. If a bo or Jo set gets them moving that is an accomplishment all unto itself.


Also I disagree that any training is better than none....if you’re learning stuff that simply doesn’t work but you think it does then you try and use said stuff in a real situation and it doesn’t work in that said situation...you’re then in a lot of danger


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## Christopher Adamchek (Jul 17, 2020)

foam covered bo and nunchaku are often good for kids, and helps then learn to be more responsible with thing in their hands


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