# Knife Defense Clothing



## FearlessFreep (Jan 4, 2008)

Last night it was cold and I was wearing 'layers'.  I don't have a heavy check so I wear a shirt, a medium sweat shirt, and a medium suede/cloth jacket.

It had me wondering how well normal or layered winter clothing would stand up to knife slashes or stabs


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## arnisador (Jan 4, 2008)

It's of little help against stabs unless it's a small knife--which certainly happens--but yes, it can be helpful against slashes. Still, don't count on it!

People test this by putting an old jacket on a beef roast or the like and slashing. (Wear safety gloves and glasses.) The bigger and heavier the knife, the less the benefit of clothes...but there's a reason why the military doesn't wear thin clothing.


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## Tom (Jan 4, 2008)

Lotsa places, only a "small knife" is legal and there are lotsa peeps wearin the big puffy jackets in winter that would protect a lot against a small knife.


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## still learning (Jan 4, 2008)

Hello, Just that the knife attack maybe to an open area? ...face?...neck? ...or ?

You can use your clothes for protection.....just that the knifer may take another tarket ...wouldn't you to too?

Aloha...best to escape than again...it will be your clothes that may add some protection for defense ....?  use what you got on!

  Hawaii is warm for thick clothing...unless you live in Waimea...where is gets cold everynight,almost every home has a chimmy.  (On the Big Island of Hawii)  It snow last week on top of Mauna kea mountain.

at 12 ,000 feet and up...we went up there and play in snow.  The air is 40% less oxygen, cannot play too hard or stay very long.....it was nice!

Aloha


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 5, 2008)

Leather jackets (thick, not these paper thin things you buy at the mall) are probably the best protection you're going to find, besides motorcycle leathers. Enough layers of denim will even stop thrusts from light swords, if you look into the history of padded & quilted armor use in rapier fighting. 
Remember, you can buy stab vests that are put together different than flak jackets or "bullet proof" vests. 
I'd say, practice your evasion & wear alot of leather. PETA be damned!

Some things like large leather wrist cuffs or watch bands can really protect you if you get ahold of the knife wrist, since most knife arts train to cut the wrist if you try to grab. They can give you that second you need for a disarm, throat strike, or whatever you need to do to survive.
Wrist Bands
Watch Bands
You'll see many "old boys" wearing things like this, esp the watch bands. Sometime, pay attention if you ever get the chance to see their bare wrist. For them, it may not be a fashion statement but lessons learned...


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## Em MacIntosh (Jan 8, 2008)

I think the jacket will aid your defense more as a weapon than armor.  Personal preferance.  It's most effective for obstructing vision, IMO.  All either you or your opponent needs is about half a second.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 8, 2008)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I think the jacket will aid your defense more as a weapon than armor.  Personal preferance.  It's most effective for obstructing vision, IMO.  All either you or your opponent needs is about half a second.



How often in a knife attack will you have the time to take off your jacket to use it as a "weapon"? I mean, I respect cloak & dagger stuff, but you have to survive the initial attack. 

I say, heavy leather jackets & footwork.


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## tellner (Jan 8, 2008)

I can't quote the whole thing, but Richard Pryor gets the last word about knives.

He was talking about the movies and said very close to "You take off your jacket. Dum-dum-dum. Wrap it around your arm. Dum-dum-dum. Kick the knife out his hand. ********. Mother****er will cut that **** all up. And if he's mad he'll cut up the ambulance drivers when they show up. If a guy comes at you with a knife you run. If you can. If you can't run, fly!"


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## SKB (Jan 8, 2008)

Leather and thick material are the best. Anything between you and the blade. You just don't want to have so much on you can't move! I also would not count on the material but use it or think of it as extra protection in case you can't move fast enough. A arm brought up to defend the face covered in a leather jacket is better then a bare arm!!!!


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## JBrainard (Jan 8, 2008)

Doc_Jude said:


> Leather jackets (thick, not these paper thin things you buy at the mall) are probably the best protection you're going to find, *besides motorcycle leathers*.


 
I guess I'm set, then.


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## Cruentus (Jan 8, 2008)

Clothing, especially leather, can be very helpful. This is because most people who are criminals aren't necessarily knife enthusiasts like some of us may be. Their knives may tend to be cheap and not razor sharp, and they may tend to slash rather then stab. If any of these factors are the case, then your clothing may be a lot more help then one might ordinarily expect.


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## Cruentus (Jan 8, 2008)

Cruentus said:


> Clothing, especially leather, can be very helpful. This is because most people who are criminals aren't necessarily knife enthusiasts like some of us may be. Their knives may tend to be cheap and not razor sharp, and they may tend to slash rather then stab. If any of these factors are the case, then your clothing may be a lot more help then one might ordinarily expect.



That all said, it isn't going to be really practical to dress specifically for a "knife fight;" this should not be happening to you enough to justify dressing especially for it, and if it is, then you are a douche bag.


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## Marvin (Jan 8, 2008)

Cruentus said:


> That all said, it isn't going to be really practical to dress specifically for a "knife fight;" this should not be happening to you enough to justify dressing especially for it, and if it is, then you are a douche bag.


Yep. Cruentus is right, you prolly have other issues you need to work out.


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## FearlessFreep (Jan 8, 2008)

Cruentus said:


> That all said, it isn't going to be really practical to dress specifically for a "knife fight;" this should not be happening to you enough to justify dressing especially for it, and if it is, then you are a douche bag.



Yeah, I was more kinda obliquely curious in how much natural defense would be gain from normal winter wear in the event it was ever an issue, not armouring up for a street knife fight


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## Grenadier (Jan 9, 2008)

Even a smaller knife with a sub-3" blade (such as my trusty Spyderco Delica) can penetrate layers of clothing with a stab.  

Remember, clothing is compressible, and that knife flying towards you will certainly have enough force to puncture it.  

Now, this may seem silly to say, but if you are in a situation where you could be regularly stabbed, there is a company called StabPro that offers a stab-resistant vest.  

http://www.surveillance-equip.com/body-armor.html

Their disclaimers, though, aren't exactly reassuring:



> *CAUTION: Although overall puncture, cut and slash resistance of these products is high, some stiletto-like, needle-like or very sharp knives and instruments may penetrate these all-fabric vests. The end-user is advised to determine for him/her-self whether or not these products meet his/her needs *


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## Cruentus (Jan 9, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> Yeah, I was more kinda obliquely curious in how much natural defense would be gain from normal winter wear in the event it was ever an issue, not armouring up for a street knife fight



That's cool. Not criticizing you or the thread or anything, just stating the fact.

Only exceptions would be people who work in corrections and those types of situations; but in that case stab resistant vests would be the solution rather then winter clothing and such that we are talking about...


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## frank raud (Jan 10, 2008)

Tom said:


> Lotsa places, only a "small knife" is legal and there are lotsa peeps wearin the big puffy jackets in winter that would protect a lot against a small knife.


 
Big puffy jackets are filled with down feathers or other light fill that compress quite easily. You are looking at essentially a nylon shell. Minimal protection compared with leather or even a Carhart style barn jacket.


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## foot2face (Jan 10, 2008)

+1 for those recommending heavy leather.  Back in my bouncing days I often wore a Motorcycle Jacket that my girlfriend got me.  The thing felt like it weighed 10 pounds but man was it great.  Broken bottles, glass, knives, nothing got trough.  Now I'm not saying it would stand up to a hard stab but moderate slashes and glancing cuts, the kind that would fillet off a flap of skin, didn't do a thing.


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## thardey (Jan 10, 2008)

I was wearing my heavy leather jacket one day while working with a knife -- it slipped and I stabbed myself in the forearm hard enough to cause a bruise, but it didn't penetrate the leather. (But it was a heavy leather jacket).

I have a friend who wears motorcycle jackets (leather) with the heavy-duty zip-up sleeves - the metal zippers add a bit of protection to the inside of the forearm -- a prime target to experienced knife-fighters.


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## howard (Jan 10, 2008)

tellner said:


> I can't quote the whole thing, but Richard Pryor gets the last word about knives...


Oh man, that is one funny skit! One of his best.

You left one great part out... when he gets all indignant because the victim "got blood all over my $#@%!'g pants..."

Doesn't he call the guy who wraps his jacket around his arm and challenges the knife-wielding dude "Macho Man"?


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## Cruentus (Jan 10, 2008)

thardey said:


> I was wearing my heavy leather jacket one day while working with a knife -- it slipped and I stabbed myself in the forearm hard enough to cause a bruise, but it didn't penetrate the leather. (But it was a heavy leather jacket).
> 
> I have a friend who wears motorcycle jackets (leather) with the heavy-duty zip-up sleeves - the metal zippers add a bit of protection to the inside of the forearm -- a prime target to experienced knife-fighters.



One thing about leather; although I said that earlier that clothing and leather can be helpful, I want to reiterate its usefulness. Leather helped me out once in an actual knife situation where I took the knife out of someones hand; but I was wearing leather gloves and that made all the difference between me being cut and not.

If Motorcyclists wear sturdy leather to guard them in case they wipe out, then logic dictates that it might be useful against sharp weapons.

No garuantee's mind you, just helps your probability a little is all...


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 10, 2008)

Cruentus said:


> One thing about leather; although I said that earlier that clothing and leather can be helpful, I want to reiterate its usefulness. Leather helped me out once in an actual knife situation where I took the knife out of someones hand; but I was wearing leather gloves and that made all the difference between me being cut and not.
> 
> If Motorcyclists wear sturdy leather to guard them in case they wipe out, then logic dictates that it might be useful against sharp weapons.
> 
> No garuantee's mind you, just helps your probability a little is all...



I think that's the general idea about leather, historically. It's not plate or chain, & it's pretty resistant to everything but the most direct attacks (right angles = stabs), just enough protection to give you time to do what you need to do.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jan 14, 2008)

Doc_Jude said:


> How often in a knife attack will you have the time to take off your jacket to use it as a "weapon"? I mean, I respect cloak & dagger stuff, but you have to survive the initial attack.
> 
> I say, heavy leather jackets & footwork.


I could already have the knife in me before I knew he had one too.  There are all kinds of what-ifs for any given situation, so, assuming I had the time, I'd whip the jacket off my left or right arm.  That will effectively have the jacket off for the sake of using it as a weapon, assuming I don't have time to whip off my jacket, I get stuck in the process and would likely be stuck in the process of performing any other defensive action when caught by surprise.  It is my choice of defensive move where I consider all of them to have equal chances.  I often have my coat off, draped around my arm just for this purpose.  I'd rather have a baseball bat.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 15, 2008)

Em MacIntosh said:


> I could already have the knife in me before I knew he had one too.  There are all kinds of what-ifs for any given situation, so, assuming I had the time, I'd whip the jacket off my left or right arm.  That will effectively have the jacket off for the sake of using it as a weapon, assuming I don't have time to whip off my jacket, I get stuck in the process and would likely be stuck in the process of performing any other defensive action when caught by surprise.  It is my choice of defensive move where I consider all of them to have equal chances.  I often have my coat off, draped around my arm just for this purpose.  I'd rather have a baseball bat.



You can train for rush attacks. Check out the Dog Bros material,"Die Less Often". It'll help, I promise.


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## LawDog (Jan 15, 2008)

A shape thin bladed knife will usuall slash / stab right through any cotton type material, layed or not. Leather will stop a slash but not a stab.
Today many of the "bad *** types" will carry a thin bladed weapon. The reason for this is,
* easier to hide,
* ease of motion,
* a thin blade can slash through material easier,
* they have the ability to stab through most police light body armor,
Many of the "knifers" are trained with the edged weapon. They know that when a person is wearing heavy clothing to strike at the less protected area's like,
* your face,
* eyes,
* the neck area,
* wrist and hands
* inside / outside of the legs,
* using a low to high upward motion to get up under your heavy torse clothing.
If you are in fear of an edged weapon attack you should train in a weapons self defense system. 
Or
Under your heavy clothing wear a leather wrap around your forearms. Whan searching a few of the "bag guys" I have found such leather forearm wraps.


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## Em MacIntosh (Jan 15, 2008)

Doc_Jude said:


> You can train for rush attacks. Check out the Dog Bros material,"Die Less Often". It'll help, I promise.


 
Thanks, Doc.  I'll check it out.


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## chinto (Jan 21, 2008)

basicly any thing that is heavy is better then light.  silk and leather are more resistant to slash and thrust then say cotton that is thin... but layers can help.. best thing is to not be there.. if a blade comes out  you better get very very aggressive and lethal.. cold steel people will KILL YOU and make sure you are DEAD.. gun types my shoot you and figure your down and take off.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 21, 2008)

Silk is good, very strong. Remember: "Pee Shirt, Bend Bars!!!"


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## tahuti (Jan 21, 2008)

If you really want to make leather armor
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Articles/Perfect_Armor_Improved.htm

Now for gloves you can get chainmail example http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=56153&cat=52&ap=1
or you can get kitchen version example http://www.magidglove.com/product.asp?dept_id=108&pf_id=417


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## chinto (Jan 21, 2008)

tahuti said:


> If you really want to make leather armor
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Articles/Perfect_Armor_Improved.htm
> 
> Now for gloves you can get chainmail example http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=56153&cat=52&ap=1
> or you can get kitchen version example http://www.magidglove.com/product.asp?dept_id=108&pf_id=417



ok, I have made curbalee armor  wax hardened armor.. and it will stop a cut as well as a blunt weapon from imperical testing.. it is very very stiff and not practical for every day wear.. you would be better off to make some light chain mail if you are that worried about it.  use a riveted mail,, 4 on 1 pattern or 2 on 8 ...   in stainless steel in say 20 gage with rivets or welded links it will give great protection ageist thrusts and slashes especially.


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## frank raud (Jan 23, 2008)

Em MacIntosh said:


> . I often have my coat off, draped around my arm just for this purpose.


 

Haa! Oh, you were serious. Nevermind.


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## thardey (Jan 23, 2008)

Doc_Jude said:


> Silk is good, very strong. Remember: "Pee Shirt, Bend Bars!!!"



And silk makes a good bandage if you do get cut -- it's supposed to help stop the blood.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 23, 2008)

thardey said:


> And silk makes a good bandage if you do get cut -- it's supposed to help stop the blood.



Spider Web, too. You need a little bit of it, though.


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## thardey (Jan 24, 2008)

Doc_Jude said:


> Spider Web, too. You need a little bit of it, though.



Are you serious? What do you do, wad the web up into a ball and stuff it into the wound? (Assuming you don't stuff the spider in there too!) What about cobwebs?


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 25, 2008)

thardey said:


> Are you serious? What do you do, wad the web up into a ball and stuff it into the wound? (Assuming you don't stuff the spider in there too!) What about cobwebs?



Serious. I wouldn't recommend cobwebs, you are applying a non-sterile material into a wound, I'd use clean webs.


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## chinto (Jan 26, 2008)

if you got some good leather make a van brace for each for arm from it.. and wear them under a jacket..splint them with thin sheet metal riveted along the long axis if you want to really be protected... either way you better get very very aggressive and put any one with a blade down hard! people with knives tend to make sure they kill you! in my state any one brandishing a knife at you from 22ft or closer is justifiable homicide to just shoot dead!


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## still learning (Jan 26, 2008)

Hello, Wearing any type of heavy clothing will help some against an knife attacker...especially a slasher....stabbing may results in "PUKA" (hawaiian word for hole).

Which is smarter...the brain (avoidance,awareness, running away) or staying around to defend against a knifer with your thick clothing?

NOTE: If blocking knife attacks using your arms...face palms towards you and back of your arm out.  Better to get cut on back side of your arms then the inside arms where the veins are.  (practice this...experiement?)

The best knife defence is distance...at least one mile away?

Do NOT expect your clothes to protect you?   A knife person may tarket the more open areas? ...wouldn't you too?

Aloha  ( sometime in Hawaii we have to where heavy clothes..suits? ....instead of t-shirts and shorts......to a formal party)


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## stephen (Jan 26, 2008)

http://www.bladerunner.tv/product/products.php

Ta-da.....

I have the hoodie, it's nice and warm as well as slash-proof.






I should get a 'cut' of any they sell from this!


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## arnisador (Jan 26, 2008)

stephen said:


> http://www.bladerunner.tv/product/products.php



Interesting!


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## still learning (Jan 26, 2008)

Hello, Great looking Hoodies'

They should make CHILDREN SIZES TOO!  

Is there any American companies that make them here?

Aloha


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## stephen (Jan 26, 2008)

I met the owner, they're trying to get school clothing made of the stuff as knife crime is a big problem in London.

It's only two guys who run the company, so you'd have to order it from the UK.


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## Doc_Jude (Jan 26, 2008)

stephen said:


> I met the owner, they're trying to get school clothing made of the stuff as knife crime is a big problem in London.
> 
> It's only two guys who run the company, so you'd have to order it from the UK.



I'm getting some!!! You just provided one of the best contributions to this thread!!!

A hoodie like this, under a leather jacket! That's the best combo so far! Thanks!!!


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## arnisador (Jan 26, 2008)

stephen said:


> I met the owner, they're trying to get school clothing made of the stuff as knife crime is a big problem in London.



Have you worn one? Is it comfortable?


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## stephen (Jan 26, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Have you worn one? Is it comfortable?



Yup, the sizes run a bit small though so order larger than you normally would.


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## jazzmasta25 (Jan 27, 2008)

A judo instructor a long time ago showed us a way to specially fold and carry your uniform on your arm to help parry knife attacks without being cut.  This was also done after class as a discipline thing to show that class had indeed ended, and that you are to respect and take care of your uniform.


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