# I need Some Easily learned Techniques to deal with ground fighting/grappling.



## Kenlee25 (Mar 19, 2012)

I'm A taekwondo practitioner ( but I take notes and moves from all manner of martial arts much like jeet kune do ) and we regrettably don't go over much ground fighting. I'll be going off to college in a matter of months and I'm unsure if the college I'm attending will have A Brazillian jit jitsu ( or other such martial art ) club. Are there any videos or explanations of moves I can do aid me in defending against tackles and or fighting off of my back? 

For tackles, I know the best defense is too make sure they don't get their under hooks in and having proper footwork and stance. If you stop them from taking you off balance, then knees/elbows can be used etc etc. Sprawling can also be used to defend against it, but Seeing as I've never been able to properly practice sprawling it's not something I would actually want to try first hand on the street. 

any pointers?


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## Josh Oakley (Mar 19, 2012)

Well, first.. which college are you going to?

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## K-man (Mar 19, 2012)

And ... are you expecting to be assaulted?


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## clfsean (Mar 19, 2012)

Most likely the school will have a wrestling club (G-R/Freestyle). 

Try there.

In the meantime, don't piss off people who grapple. Wait!!!! You don't know who they are!!! Life lesson #1...


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## Cyriacus (Mar 19, 2012)

Sure! If someone tries to Tackle You, Punch them.
If Youre on Your Back, Punch and Kick them.

You are now a Black Belt in the fact that the other guy is more than likely not a bloody BJJ Black Belt whos going to ground fight your ***.


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## Kenlee25 (Mar 19, 2012)

Lol okay I get the sarcasm. I was just saying it seems like something I would want to invest for just in case because I'm a smaller guy, and going off to college for four years . I just never want to overestimate my skills and become cocky, so I like to know as much as possible for any given situation is all. 

No I am not expecting to be Assaulted. 

I'll be attending the University of Arkansas at Fayettville. 

How do I close a topic?


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## K-man (Mar 19, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> Lol okay I get the sarcasm. I was just saying it seems like something I would want to invest for just in case because I'm a smaller guy, and going off to college for four years . I just never want to overestimate my skills and become cocky, so I like to know as much as possible for any given situation is all.
> 
> No I am not expecting to be Assaulted.
> 
> ...


You don't need to close the topic.  Mine was a serious question.  Some places a more likely to be violent than others. If you were in a rough area where assault was a distinct possibility then I would be looking at something like KM for a quick course of basic self defence.  

Getting proficient in grappling takes a lot longer but you don't really want to go to the ground. An assailant in a street assault may have friends. What Cyriacus said was very true. You don't need a lot of fancy moves. If someone goes to grab you, if you have time, punch. If they grab from behind, kick back and use your elbows. If you're grabbed in close in front, stomp on their feet and use your knees, if you can, grab and squeeze the testicles.

If you are taken to the ground, explode. Lash out and try to get back on your feet ASAP.

However before you do any of that, make sure you know the first lesson of self defence.   Avoid trouble in the first place.  Always be aware of your surroundings.  Avoid known trouble spots etc.  Most of us will train for years and never have to use the skills that we learn.  

There is sarcasm in another couple of threads for a totally different reason.  You have made no claims and you have asked a perfectly reasonable question. Just enjoy the forum and make use of the considerable array of good advice it can provide.

Good luck in your new college and I hope you find a good MA community there.   :asian:


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## Kenlee25 (Mar 19, 2012)

Thank you sir! You are a good man, you have already proven helpful to me twice in one day. I'll make sure to Remember you.

That is one of things I'm really hoping to find in college. A great martial arts community. According to the website, they have a Taekwondo club ( but I've taken Taekwondo all my life and college clubs are usually more WTF style right? I don't want to train WTF ) and something called Youn Wha Ryu....it's supposedly a new style that mixes some kung fu with Judo and Taekwondo but seeing as I've never heard of it before, I'm not so sure what to expect. When I went up to visit it this summer, The tour guide said he took Aikido, so I'm lead to assume there will be more clubs than listed on the site but I'm not so sure. There is also a boxing club.


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## Cyriacus (Mar 19, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> Lol okay I get the sarcasm. I was just saying it seems like something I would want to invest for just in case because I'm a smaller guy, and going off to college for four years . I just never want to overestimate my skills and become cocky, so I like to know as much as possible for any given situation is all.
> 
> No I am not expecting to be Assaulted.
> 
> ...



...It wasnt Sarcasm.


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## K-man (Mar 19, 2012)

Personally, what I have seen of TKD makes it 'not my cup of tea'.  That's not to say it's no good, there are many good practitioners out there.  I'm not into sport martial arts at all. I love my Okinawan Goju ryu and I love my aikido.  I look at a lot of Kung Fu or WC and see so much that is included in what I practise.  Aikido goes beautifully with karate if your karate is 'in your face' karate, not karate at 20 paces. Aikido is a fantastic thing to learn but I'm not sure it would complement TKD where such emphasis is on the kicking. If there is BJJ available, that's a good addition to any martial art. 

What I would do is the same as has been advised elsewhere on the forum, go to all the available classes.  From your past years of training you will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Talk to the instructors, talk to the students and go with your gut feeling even if it is a change of style and a whole new start.


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## Steve (Mar 19, 2012)

I would recommend you find a BJJ, sambo, or judo school.  I'm sure one will be around.  Train.  Have fun.  Learn.  You won't learn anything from a forum.   Nothing can replace mat time.


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## chinto (Mar 19, 2012)

K-man said:


> You don't need to close the topic.  Mine was a serious question.  Some places a more likely to be violent than others. If you were in a rough area where assault was a distinct possibility then I would be looking at something like KM for a quick course of basic self defence.
> 
> Getting proficient in grappling takes a lot longer but you don't really want to go to the ground. An assailant in a street assault may have friends. What Cyriacus said was very true. You don't need a lot of fancy moves. If someone goes to grab you, if you have time, punch. If they grab from behind, kick back and use your elbows. If you're grabbed in close in front, stomp on their feet and use your knees, if you can, grab and squeeze the testicles.
> 
> ...




I agree with what he said, and I would emphasize the part about avoid the problem first!  If you FIGHT you may DIE!

that said, in a real self defense situation, if you are a tournament fighter, especially as your primary training is TKD, remember Self Defense has no rules! 
That means if attacked eyes and groin, throat and any other vital aria are all good targets!  Fishhook and any thing else you can think of that is not nice. In short do damage quickly and commiserate with what you perceive as the threat faced.  So if you think they mean to do real harm, especially if there is more then one, I would call it a deadly force encounter. ( but you might want to find out what the force laws are where the college/ university is located. check state law or a lawyer there.) In short, run if you can, if you gota fight, worry about SURVIVAL and the rest is for latter.


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## Kenlee25 (Mar 19, 2012)

It's not the art it's the fighter, and Like stated above A good fighter knows how to avoid a situation. I always try to avoid situations.

TKD isn't a sport martial art...well it's not supposed to be...but many a martial art ( Judo, some forms of karate, some BJJ, muay thai, etc etc ) are falling slowly into that category unfortunately.

I'm aware that TKD is kick heavy, but i know how to adjust my mindset for the streets. The power I can put into a kick to the body can easy be thrown towards the knees, legs, or groin. I practice knees and elbows religiously because they are your best friends up close. I personally am way more inclined to use my hands rather than my feet. I guess you could say that I'm a horrible tkd fighter because I don't kick much at all, I only use strikes that I know will hit, and thus I only kick when I know I can land it. I also know a sweep or two and love hammer fists and palm strikes. I do not train in the Olympian style TKD however. Students in my class, when sparring, aren't trying to score points with out feet, we are actually striking each other, just with a certain level of control. I for one try to treat sparring as realistic as possible, Which is why you will seldom ever see me busting out a move that isn't practical on the street level. 

I watch a lot of Krav Maga and Jeet Kune do Videos and I've read Bruce Lee's book. Reading his book and adapting some of his thoughts has definitely helped me in terms of footwork, stance, striking and parrying. Krav maga, with it's basic no nonsense style, is also something easy to look at for a martial artist. I don't pretend to learn new moves ( Krav maga doesn't have many complex ones to begin with ) But it's the application of Martial arts moves that I already know that will help.

Although I am cautious, I like to believe that I'm prepared to defend myself. And I definitely know what not to throw out in a fight. My original Art may be Taekwondo, But I just consider myself a student of martial arts in general ( I hope I don't sound naive ).


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## Cyriacus (Mar 20, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> It's not the art it's the fighter, and Like stated above A good fighter knows how to avoid a situation. I always try to avoid situations.
> 
> *Its the Fighter, and the Teacher. A Judoka isnt going to be able to outbox a Boxer. He can use Judo, but.*
> 
> ...



I cant think of anything creative to say now, so "Just My Contribution".


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm still a little uncertain exactly what you are seeking.  I don't know how far you have progressed in TKD, nor am I sure it matters.  But it sounds like you are just looking for a different MA without losing any skills or abilities you learned in TKD, and specifically ground techniques.

In general, that is not a problem.  Moving to an MA with a radically different outlook can be a good move.  My personal advice would be to try Aikido.  It is very much a grappling art, and there are ground techniques.  But it will teach you to try not to be on the ground, but instead put your opponent on the ground.  Hapkido, if you can find it, is much the same, but a little more inclined to want to damage your opponent.  BJJ has proved itself a good MA.  I don't know much about it, but I don't like the idea, which it seems to have, of intentionally going to the ground as quickly as posssible.  I think that is to be avoided.  IfI am wrong, some of our BJJ practitioners will correct me.


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## Carol (Mar 20, 2012)

Welcome to Martial Talk, Kenlee :wavey:

Congrats on college!  If you currently have a martial arts teacher, are you able to explore anti-grappling techniques with them, or with someone they know?  Alternatively, do you have a chance to learn a grappling style as Steve suggests?   Assuming you are heading off to school in August, you have nearly 6 months to get some new material under your belt (so to speak).

I lived in a not-so-nice part of the city when I was in school and basically lived on my mountain bike.  One way to stay out of trouble is to be the person no one can catch


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## Instructor (Mar 20, 2012)

Hapkido blends seamlessly with Tae Kwon Do and has an arsenal of weapons if you get into a grappling situation.

Somebody on here referred to TKD as a sports style.  Many TKD schools are sports oriented but not all of them, a minority of them focus on practical real world applications.

Many of the more practical TKD schools are adopting the title Kong Soo Do.

Did your TKD training also teach joint locks, nerve strikes, and pressure points?  These things can be useful on the ground.  Perhaps not so much in competition but for survival, anything goes.


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## Kenlee25 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks Carol! 

Believe me, If I could, I would have already taken up another art, but as it stands currently, I'm not the one paying for my classes. I pay for other things sure ( gas money ) but the parental unit still pays for martial arts as they have since I was but a lad! She clearly stated that seeing as I was so close to graduating high school anyway, there was no point in starting something new until I'm gone. 

That's basically the only reason I was never able to cross train. 

We know a few nerve strikes and pressure points yes ( my trainer is actually a chiropractor...he once threw my back out with a sparring move and then fixed it within a second ) but not joint locks.


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## Grenadier (Mar 20, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> I'll be attending the University of Arkansas at Fayettville.



As stated before, there are plenty of opportunities to learn wrestling in your area, as well as there being a fair number of Judo or Ju Jutsu clubs.  I believe Michael Dobbs still has a club in the area, and is a really good Judo sensei.


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## Steve (Mar 20, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> Thanks Carol!
> 
> Believe me, If I could, I would have already taken up another art, but as it stands currently, I'm not the one paying for my classes. I pay for other things sure ( gas money ) but the parental unit still pays for martial arts as they have since I was but a lad! She clearly stated that seeing as I was so close to graduating high school anyway, there was no point in starting something new until I'm gone.
> 
> ...


Many judo clubs run as non-profits and the monthly fee is nominal.  Or you could wait until you go off to school.  That's more what I was thinking.  I'm 100% confident that there is a club/school where you can learn from competent people. 

While the guys here are great and you could learn a lot of academic information, if you really want to learn a some technique, you need to find a competent instructor, in person.  Truth is, most techniques are easily learned when you're on the mat, working with guys who know what they're doing.  It's not the instruction that makes them work, though.  It's the repetition.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Mar 20, 2012)

I have to agree completely with Steve--if you want to learn how to defend against grappling techniques, you need to learn grappling.  I've said it before and I'll say it again until I die; the ONLY "anti-grappling" that actually works is _learning grappling_.

The only way for you to learn how to defend against throws, sweeps, trips, tackles or takedowns is to work throws, sweeps, trips, tackles and takedowns and learn how to do them so you learn where and when and how they are applied and where and when and how to prevent them from functioning properly so someone can't do them to you.  The only way for you to learn how to get someone off of you when they are sitting on you and punching you is to work mount escapes.  People can tell you to "fight with everything you have", "stick fingers in their eyes", "flail at them" or any number of other things but the simple fact of the matter is this--if someone with any level of grappling experience (this include wrestling and football, by the way) wants to put you on the floor and start beating the crap out of you, they are going to be able to do exactly that unless you know how to transition and control an opponent on the ground.  Is the ground where you want to be in a self defense situation? No! But in order to prevent yourself from going there and to get back up if you end up there, you need to train groundwork.

Find a place to learn some form of grappling--judo, sambo, jiujitsu, wrestling, it doesn't really matter as long as they teach you how to prevent someone from taking you to the ground and how get from a weak position to a dominant position if you end up on the ground anyway.

*tl;dr - Start learning a grappling art before somebody tackles you and punches the crap out of your face*


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## WingChunIan (Mar 21, 2012)

Never_A_Reflection said:


> I have to agree completely with Steve--if you want to learn how to defend against grappling techniques, you need to learn grappling.  I've said it before and I'll say it again until I die; the ONLY "anti-grappling" that actually works is _learning grappling_.
> 
> The only way for you to learn how to defend against throws, sweeps, trips, tackles or takedowns is to work throws, sweeps, trips, tackles and takedowns and learn how to do them so you learn where and when and how they are applied and where and when and how to prevent them from functioning properly so someone can't do them to you.  The only way for you to learn how to get someone off of you when they are sitting on you and punching you is to work mount escapes.  People can tell you to "fight with everything you have", "stick fingers in their eyes", "flail at them" or any number of other things but the simple fact of the matter is this--if someone with any level of grappling experience (this include wrestling and football, by the way) wants to put you on the floor and start beating the crap out of you, they are going to be able to do exactly that unless you know how to transition and control an opponent on the ground.  Is the ground where you want to be in a self defense situation? No! But in order to prevent yourself from going there and to get back up if you end up there, you need to train groundwork.
> 
> ...



I disagree slightly. You don't have to learn grappling to learn how to defend against it but you do have to train with grapplers. Kenelee if you have time whilst at college (and lets face it, its the best point in your life re time) go and train judo, wrestling, sombo or BJJ, they're great workouts and you'll learn loads. My advice would be though to keep practicing your TKD and to look at how you might adapt it based on what you pick up. The sprawl isn't the only take down defence even in mma and is certainly not what I would choose to do in the street.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Mar 21, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> I disagree slightly. You don't have to learn grappling to learn how to defend against it but you do have to train with grapplers. Kenelee if you have time whilst at college (and lets face it, its the best point in your life re time) go and train judo, wrestling, sombo or BJJ, they're great workouts and you'll learn loads. My advice would be though to keep practicing your TKD and to look at how you might adapt it based on what you pick up. The sprawl isn't the only take down defence even in mma and is certainly not what I would choose to do in the street.



You say you disagree slightly but training with grapplers _should_ result in them teaching you at least pieces of a grappling art, so we don't really disagree at all.  I would also like to point out that I did not say that Kenelee should _stop_ training TKD, but simply _start_ training in grappling.

I have to say, though, that I am curious as to why you would not sprawl in the street.  Sure, you have other options available to you, but I fail to see the problem with sprawling when used appropriately.  Are you concerned about banging your knees on the ground?  I truly don't mean this in an argumentative way--I legitimately want to know what your concerns are with using the sprawl to defend a takedown, because I have not heard anyone else express that concern before and the only thing I can think of that might be an issue would be the possibility of banging your knees on the ground.


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## MJS (Mar 21, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> I'm A taekwondo practitioner ( but I take notes and moves from all manner of martial arts much like jeet kune do ) and we regrettably don't go over much ground fighting. I'll be going off to college in a matter of months and I'm unsure if the college I'm attending will have A Brazillian jit jitsu ( or other such martial art ) club. Are there any videos or explanations of moves I can do aid me in defending against tackles and or fighting off of my back?
> 
> For tackles, I know the best defense is too make sure they don't get their under hooks in and having proper footwork and stance. If you stop them from taking you off balance, then knees/elbows can be used etc etc. Sprawling can also be used to defend against it, but Seeing as I've never been able to properly practice sprawling it's not something I would actually want to try first hand on the street.
> 
> any pointers?



IMHO, I'd avoid video learning.  Thats always a hot topic here, and a quick search will show you numerous threads on the subject.  I feel that they're fine for reference purposes, but as a sole learning tool...no, they just don't cut it.  I would certainly check to see if the college you'll be attending, has a BJJ or Judo club.  Of course, depending on where you go, its very possible there could be a BJJ school nearby, which you could attend.


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## MJS (Mar 21, 2012)

Kenlee25 said:


> Lol okay I get the sarcasm. I was just saying it seems like something I would want to invest for just in case because I'm a smaller guy, and going off to college for four years . I just never want to overestimate my skills and become cocky, so I like to know as much as possible for any given situation is all.
> 
> No I am not expecting to be Assaulted.
> 
> ...



A quick google search:
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=bjj schools in arkansas

Not sure where these will be in conjunction with where you'll be going to school, nor am I sure of the quality of these schools, but its a start.


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## Steve (Mar 21, 2012)

WingChunIan said:


> I disagree slightly. You don't have to learn grappling to learn how to defend against it but you do have to train with grapplers. Kenelee if you have time whilst at college (and lets face it, its the best point in your life re time) go and train judo, wrestling, sombo or BJJ, they're great workouts and you'll learn loads. My advice would be though to keep practicing your TKD and to look at how you might adapt it based on what you pick up. The sprawl isn't the only take down defence even in mma and is certainly not what I would choose to do in the street.


Maybe this is semantics, but wouldn't you consider takedowns and takedown defense both to be grappling?  By definition, if you're learning takedowns and how to defend them from someone competent, you're learning from a grappler.  

What I am saying is that you should look for someone competent.  And while each style emphasizes different aspects of grappling, they all offer takedown and defense.  Bottom line is that if the guy teaching you takedown defense doesn't actively train with people who are good at takedowns, you're learning from the wrong guy.

I want to be clear, though, that this wasn't the point of my earlier post.  In that post, I'm simply urging the OP to find a school and train.  Nothing beats getting on the mats and doing it.  You can't learn to bake without cracking some eggs.


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## oftheherd1 (Mar 21, 2012)

You mentioned Aikido being in your area.  That is what I would look into first.  Many universities offer Judo as a class, at least one sememster of which will count towards your degree (sort of like taking gym in HS).  That would be my second recommendation.  I am a Hapkidoist, so if that is offered anywhere near you, that would be a very good 2nd MA to learn, but it is hard to find teachers in Hapkido:  I don't mean a TKD school that claims to teach Hapkido because of 1 or 2 seminars the teacher may have attended.


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