# Does this place seem legit?



## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

http://www.lakewoodma.com/

Yes, it does say 'Ninjitsu' in one place, but im assuming that was the web designers fault, the guy seems pretty legitment.

there is list of ninjutsu teachers at this particular place, a few of which are japanese, ill post the names when i get the list on tuesday.


thanks


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## Blindside (Feb 5, 2007)

Well, for a school that teaches shotokan/aikido/ninjutsu there sure seems to be alot of guys in Tae Kwon Do uniforms on the website.  Nothing strikes me as absurd, but nothing strikes me as being anything beyond a run of the mill commercial school.  Training times are short, do you learn both Shotokan AND Ninjutsu between 7 and 8?  And the way they teach how to do a sidekick is a great way to sprain your ankle.... badly.

On the other hand appearance can be deceiving, the whole ninja thing ya know.

Lamont


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

Blindside said:


> Well, for a school that teaches shotokan/aikido/ninjutsu there sure seems to be alot of guys in Tae Kwon Do uniforms on the website.  Nothing strikes me as absurd, but nothing strikes me as being anything beyond a run of the mill commercial school.  Training times are short, do you learn both Shotokan AND Ninjutsu between 7 and 8?  And the way they teach how to do a sidekick is a great way to sprain your ankle.... badly.
> 
> On the other hand appearance can be deceiving, the whole ninja thing ya know.
> 
> Lamont



he said that he likes karate or TKD uniforms because they are easier to train in, or something.

he works with two classes from 7-8, apperently he would do karate for an hour, and ninjutsu for an hour, but both the classes were small, so he cross trains them, like warming up together, learning some basics, but he will break us into nin/karate groups for most of the class.

as for pics, alot of the kids just dont listen to what he says, because they are kids.  some of the older people are stubborn in their ways and like to do their own things, but he is a good teacher in general.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit (Feb 5, 2007)

"Our sensei has been teaching martial arts for  over 9 years and is a Nidan (2nd degree black belt) in Shotokan Karate and Koga Ryu Ninjutsu,"

Stay away.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

> Stay away.



why?


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## ArmorOfGod (Feb 5, 2007)

Nimravus said:


> Stay away.


 
Why?

AoG


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## ArmorOfGod (Feb 5, 2007)

I looked at the website and he needs to get a different web designer.  Those pics of tkd fighters are obviously generic clipart like the kinds you see at www.martialsites.com

AoG


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2007)

Nimravus said:


> "Our sensei has been teaching martial arts for  over 9 years and is a Nidan (2nd degree black belt) in Shotokan Karate and Koga Ryu Ninjutsu,"
> 
> Stay away.





Mecha said:


> why?



That was about my opinion, too.

Your instructor has been teaching for 9 years, but is relatively low ranked in 3 arts and one questionable art.  Either he's hopscotching around, or he hasn't continued his own training as he teaches.  Black belt ranking alone isn't necessarily an indication of teaching credentials; in many traditional Japanese arts, a teaching license is separate from a black belt.  But I simply have to wonder based on his credentials as they're stated.

I'm not suggesting he's not a good teacher, or doesn't work well with kids, or even that he's not the victim of a fraudulent teacher on the Koga ninjutsu.  But he's not winning me over, either...

And the idea of simultaneously conducting two different classes is a little unrealistic to me, as well...

I'd be one of the last to suggest that simply because an art isn't well known, or an instructor or lineage isn't well known, that there's something wrong.  My own style is little-known, and my instructor is almost unknown today outside of our own style.  But it can be verified (with hunting and with the understanding that there's some controversy), there's an entire association with a verifiable history, and he's never presented it as something other than what it is.  Nor am I trying to say that only high-ranks matter; I'm "only" a second-level myself despite training for more than 20 years.  I simply haven't chosen to take part in the testing process for something like 7 or 8 years, for my own reasons.  People it's pertinent to know why -- and I still maintain my membership in the association and actively participate in it's training activities.  Can you say the same about your instructor?

There's simply a lot of cautionary notes based on what little we know from you and that website.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

sigh, if he is in fact not teaching true koga ryu, i'd assume that it was because he learned from a fradulent teacher, he is way too nice to pull one over on anyone.

are there any things to look out for in classes that would scream fraud?


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## Carol (Feb 5, 2007)

Ask where and from whom he learned his arts, and whether he has an instructor cert.

Also if he is relatively low ranked after 9 years, that may also be because he has a full-time career outside of his school.  Couldn't hurt to find out.


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## Mecha (Feb 5, 2007)

he does have a full time career,  and i think he learned from our previous sensai, ill get a list of the names tommorow and google them...


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## mrhnau (Feb 5, 2007)

Do some searching on here about Koga ninjutsu... might be insightful.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2007)

They have 1 one-hour class "Adult Shotokan and Ninjutsu"  on the schedule and that is the only one I see that mentions Ninjutsu

I am a CMA guy so take this for what it is worth but that class alone would make me wonder about legitimacy.

Also look here and you tell me
http://www.lakewoodma.com/1182977.html


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## Bujingodai (Feb 5, 2007)

It doesn't mention any names from what I see.
If I was a betting man, the only koga in that area some years ago was Yo Sato who is now elsewhere.
I do believe Mike Youngblood was also operating in that vacinity. I met some of his students in Denver years ago. You should ask if either was the teacher and take your opinion from that.


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## Don Roley (Feb 6, 2007)

Mecha said:


> sigh, if he is in fact not teaching true koga ryu, i'd assume that it was because he learned from a fradulent teacher, he is way too nice to pull one over on anyone.
> 
> are there any things to look out for in classes that would scream fraud?



Don't be too sure that he is too nice to be a fraud. I have seen some con men and the best ones are the ones that can charm the pants off of you. They can be kind when it is in their best interest, and even when it is not. But they still can lie and _anyone_ can be fooled. That means you. 

The one thing to look for in determining if someone is a fraud is their unwillingness to back up claims about _*their personal training history.*_ People can be fooled. But everyone I know who has also has been quite willing to back up where they learned their fraudulant art. Take yourself for example. There was a guy named Bruce Calkins that try to claim he learned ninjutsu- but was not able to show even a hundreth of the proof you did when you posted that link.

So if your teacher gives you a name and a way of contacting the person he says taught him ninjutsu, then I would say he is honest and not a fraud. Of course, the odds would then be that he himself was fooled. Maybe by the well known fraud "Yo Sato" that has already been mentioned. But if your teacher is honest, he is worth training with. I can forgive being fooled and just doing the best you can. But I can't abide by people that would lie to their students.


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## Mecha (Feb 6, 2007)

so, he was instructed and certified by a 10th degree blackbelt named something bennest.  steven bennest possibly, not sure.

any info on him?

EDIT: oh laawwwdd...

Did some digging on soke Steve Bennest...

everyone says he is a very good martial artist, a very good teacher, but a horrible horrible person.  

he turned his school/association into somehing cult like, where if you disagree with him, you get publicly punished.

apperently, my current sensai is one of those people.

he disagreed with the way bennest was running things, he did not like the cult-ishness of the organizitaion, and he felt that steeve was a horrible person in general, so he and one other black belt left the school.  Bennest got pissy and posted terrible things about them on his site (he has taken those things down now), etc etc.

he went far enough to say that my sensai, and all who learn from him are traitors, and if it were feudal japan, we would all be executed.

drama FTL.

(but i guess that makes me an executable subordinate of a moral but executable sensai)

my current sensai also has sifted through the BS techniques that bennest tought, and apperntly replaced them with things that are more common sense.

example: when defending against a knife, bennest teaches you to cram your hand down on the knife, your muscles will spasam, rendering the attackers hand useless.

my sensai (did this today): first things first: when being attacked with a knife, run away or comply.  if you absolutly have to defend, heres what you do:  (none of the things involve impaling yourself ><)


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## Blindside (Feb 7, 2007)

Any further discution of "soke" Steve Bennett will drop this thread right into our "Horror Stories" subforum.  A quick google search is more than enough to ID a fraud.


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## Mecha (Feb 7, 2007)

sigh, so should i just quit the dojo i am at atm?  i mean, our sensai was taught by bennet...


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## Carol (Feb 7, 2007)

Mecha, it's your training and your path.  People train for different reasons.  I've been in schools that were not the truest in terms of the style that was taught...but I got one helluva good work out in the process and personally I think physical conditioning is something thats overlooked in a lot of schools.

The trouble will come in...how much will you need to physically use your skills, whether you can "transfer" anything you learned to a new teacher (or whether you have just learned bad habits), and whether you someday want to teach yourself.

Only you can answer those questions


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## Blindside (Feb 7, 2007)

Mecha said:


> sigh, so should i just quit the dojo i am at atm? i mean, our sensai was taught by bennet...


 
You actually may be learning some decent skills, however they probably have nothing to do with the ninjutsu that members of this board do.  Is that a problem for you?  Are you having fun?  Do you think your skills are practical.  Do you think this will help you defend yourself.  (Though in all fairness, you may not be a good judge of the last two questions, lots of martial artists think they are more dangerous than they are.)

Are you going to quit because a bunch of people you don't know, who have looked at a couple of websites are in any way a better judge of what you are learning than you yourself are?

Lamont 

PS: If you do wind up leaving, I may have a suggestion for an instructor in your area.  PM me if you are interested.


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## rutherford (Feb 7, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> Your instructor has been teaching for 9 years, but is relatively low ranked in 3 arts and one questionable art.  Either he's hopscotching around, or he hasn't continued his own training as he teaches.



This is important.  

Who is he training with now.  Anybody?


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## evenflow1121 (Feb 7, 2007)

I am not a big fan of this multiple martial art style schools, I think if an instructor has reached a descent rank in two martial arts it is quite impressive, but 4 sounds more to me like a bb gatherer.  The fact that an instructor has a bb in multiple styles, or a humble nidan like myself, is not so much impressive as it is to find an instructor in one art who has dedicated his life to it.  And aside from whether it may be a mcdojo or not, to which I will not comment on because I simply do not know and cant tell from a website, I will telll you that I do not like schools that teach more than two styles by the same instructor.  Its hard enough to dedicate your life to just one.


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## HorseShido (Dec 23, 2008)

On 12-17-2008, the Seattle Post Intelligencer published an article at the following link:  http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/392668_bogushero18.html

The article includes the following:

"A Sumner man who falsely claimed to be a Vietnam-era war hero pleaded guilty Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Seattle to making false claims of military service, awards and decorations.

Steve Bennest, 57, in making an application to the Veterans Affairs' Seattle office in support of a compensation claim for alleged post-traumatic stress disorder, falsely asserted that he had been awarded a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star. Bennest served in the Army between 1969 and 1972, but did not earn either of the medals, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

Bennest faces a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a $100,000 fine."

Unfortunately for Steve, he's his own worst enemy, but his personal problems don't take away from the fact that he is very talented with Martial Arts.  Still, I wouldn't want my child in Steve's school.


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## zeeberex (Dec 23, 2008)

Grey Eyed Bandit said:


> "Our sensei has been teaching martial arts for  over 9 years and is a Nidan (2nd degree black belt) in Shotokan Karate and Koga Ryu Ninjutsu,"
> 
> Stay away.



yep, thats a pretty red flag


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## zeeberex (Dec 23, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> That was about my opinion, too.
> 
> Your instructor has been teaching for 9 years, but is relatively low ranked in 3 arts and one questionable art.  Either he's hopscotching around, or he hasn't continued his own training as he teaches.  Black belt ranking alone isn't necessarily an indication of teaching credentials; in many traditional Japanese arts, a teaching license is separate from a black belt.  But I simply have to wonder based on his credentials as they're stated.
> 
> ...



9 years is not long enough to run your own school, in three styles in that time, laughable.


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## zeeberex (Dec 23, 2008)

Mecha said:


> so, he was instructed and certified by a 10th degree blackbelt named something bennest.  steven bennest possibly, not sure.
> 
> any info on him?
> 
> ...



Bennest is karate or koga?


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## jks9199 (Dec 23, 2008)

Just an observation...

You're responding to a thread that had been dormant for over a year.  (Almost 2!)


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## zeeberex (Dec 23, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> Just an observation...
> 
> You're responding to a thread that had been dormant for over a year.  (Almost 2!)



No I did not, I responded to a post that responded to an old thread.


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## Tez3 (Dec 24, 2008)

We should have a section for 'resurrected' threads lol! We've had a few recently, though must admit this one had been ressurrected with new information.


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