# I need to find a place with a large emphasis on sparring. There seems to be none in my area. How the F am I supposed to learn how to fight?



## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

These past couple years I've done some Gym hopping. I know the basic punches and kicks and I've done padwork and bagwork up the wazoo.

I guess this is where a person would normally say "I understand these things are important BUT.."

Only here there is none of that. Because I'm no closer to being confident in my ability to defend myself than when I started training. I haven't been exposed to pressure.

Every place I was in had some variation of the "you will die in sparring unless you've mastered everything first so we can't let you" mindset. Obviously that's not exactly what they tell me. It's what they mean though.

I don't care. Even if it's just shoulder tap sparring.. even if I get my butt kicked a bunch.. that'll still be better than nothing. Because at least then I'll be getting comfortable with throwing shots at a person.

At this point I'm too scared of people. Other humans to me look like impossible stone golums that can't be hurt. By comparison, I feel like getting hit once will result in my immediate death. Logically, I know that this is not true.. but I feel like it is and it gets in the way every time another person so much as gives me an annoyed look. I freeze.. so easily.

Even just defending myself a little bit would be a massive help. But all the places around me seem to want to hold me back. And know I can say this without it being "ego" or whatever because.. they're insistent on holding me back. It's a FACT lol.

lately I'm just incensed with my options. All I want more than anything is to be confident in the danger I can pose to a person if need be. I keep hearing "every gym is different" from people who have trained at places with a heavy emphasis on pressure-testing. LMAO not around here! That's for sure!


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2021)

So let me make sure I have this straight... You're saying that not one of the hundreds (thousands?) of schools in your area will let you spar? That seems unlikely...


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## Flying Crane (Nov 18, 2021)

It is possible that all the gym-hopping that you have done means you haven’t spent enough time in one place for them to decide that they can trust you in sparring.  There needs to be trust when it comes to sparring, to know that the people you are working with have the respect and the CONTROL over their techniques to not actually injure you in sparring.  You may have spent a lot of time (so far) on pad and bag work.  But that does not mean you can control it well enough to not injure your sparring partners.  Sparring should be conducted in a way in which people learn and grow from it without serious injury.  It should not simply be a contest to see who can beat down the other.  It takes time to show that you are capable of that control and have the proper mindset to safely engage in sparring.  Perhaps none of the schools you have attended have decided yet that they can trust you, because you don’t stick around. 

In addition to this, not everyone believes that sparring is the pinnacle of martial training.  Other approaches to training view sparring as less essential in developing viable defensive skills.  You may see sparring as essential, or desirable, and that is ok.  If so, then it makes sense for you to find a school that engages in it, because that is where you will be happiest.  But just understand, not everyone views it the same way.


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## drop bear (Nov 18, 2021)

Do mma.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 18, 2021)

You need to develop your foundation and toolbox. Build your own fighting club.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 18, 2021)

Where do you live? What styles have you tried? How long do you stick with a school before switching because they won't let you spar yet?


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## frank raud (Nov 18, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Where do you live? What styles have you tried? How long do you stick with a school before switching because they won't let you spar yet?


Without answers to these questions, the OP is just ranting and there is nothing anyone here can do to change his position.


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Where do you live? What styles have you tried? How long do you stick with a school before switching because they won't let you spar yet?


Waterloo NY.

-Muay thai
-Dutch Kickboxing
-Standard Kickboxing
-Boxing.

Longest I've spent at a place was a couple months (the Dutch Kickboxing place).


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> Waterloo NY.
> 
> -Muay thai
> -Dutch Kickboxing
> ...


It's fairly standard for a place to wait somewhere between 3-6 months to start training you. Particularly in something that can do hard sparring like the styles that you mentioned.

I'd bet that if you hadn't spend a couple years gym hopping and stuck with the first place you liked, you'd have been sparring for a while now.

My recommendation is to just ask a coach before you start what the timeline is to start sparring, and let them know right from the get-go that that's what you're interested in. And suck up the months not sparring so you don't spend years not sparring like you've done so far.

Edit: I think some people on here have trained/live near there..not sure which ones are still active though. Hopefully one of them will come in and comment.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> Waterloo NY.
> 
> -Muay thai
> -Dutch Kickboxing
> ...


So maybe you should stay in one school longer than it takes to walk in and walk back out?


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> So maybe you should stay in one school longer than it takes to walk in and walk back out?


The answer to your question is "no." At least for the Dutch Kickboxing place. There was a guy there who had been training for a year and they still didn't let him spar.

Dutch Kickboxing Mcdojo. Imagine that.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 18, 2021)

Go start some fights.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> The answer to your question is "no." At least for the Dutch Kickboxing place. There was a guy there who had been training for a year and they still didn't let him spar.
> 
> Dutch Kickboxing Mcdojo. Imagine that.


Wow. You sure learned an amazing amount about the other students in your 5 minutes there.
Maybe if you learned more about what they're teaching and less about the other students?


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Go start some fights.


I would but I always freeze and my body rejects any attempts I make at striking the other person.


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Wow. You sure learned an amazing amount about the other students in your 5 minutes there.
> Maybe if you learned more about what they're teaching and less about the other students?


What so I should just ignore red flags.. like a moron?


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> What so I should just ignore red flags.. like a moron?


Why would they let you spar if you're just going to freeze up? You'll get hurt and the other person will learn more by pounding a heavy bag instead of pounding you.


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> Why would they let you spar if you're just going to freeze up? You'll get hurt and the other person will learn more by pounding a heavy bag instead of pounding you.


That wasn't what I asked. Get with it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> I would but I always freeze and my body rejects any attempts I make at striking the other person.


You'll probably have to work on that. Maybe one-on-one with a coach. If they see that you're unable to strike someone, they're not going to allow you to spar...why would they? Looks like general class sparring isn't what you need yet.


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## Ugh (Nov 18, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> You'll probably have to work on that. Maybe one-on-one with a coach. If they see that you're unable to strike someone, they're not going to allow you to spar...why would they? Looks like general class sparring isn't what you need yet.


I've done shoulder/body-tap sparring successfully before. Granted I had no idea what I was doing, and I'm sure the guy I was doing it with saw oodles in opportunities to KO me but still. That's why I say it would be better than nothing. Because I can actually start there.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Nov 18, 2021)

Ugh said:


> I've done shoulder/body-tap sparring successfully before. Granted I had no idea what I was doing, and I'm sure the guy I was doing it with saw oodles in opportunities to KO me but still. That's why I say it would be better than nothing. Because I can actually start there.


Again, that's something that you have to talk with a coach about when you first go somewhere. Make sure that they know your issues, otherwise they won't know to work with you on it, and you'll end up wasting time (causing the frustration you're feeling now). 

If you asked to train with me and told me about that issue, I'd start you off with slow sparring just with me where I give you opportunities to hit me, and we'd slowly ramp up the speed and power. But if you didn't, I'd train you the same way I've trained others, which doesn't really involve sparring for a couple months. And then I'd discover this issue and have to start almost from scratch on the problem (and a lot of people running larger classes don't really have time for that, and can tell you that if you talk to them in the beginning). 

If you can afford it, private classes/staying after classes to work on it might be the most realistic way to go.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 18, 2021)

How the F am I supposed to learn how to fight?​
Have you ever gone to a gym, and try to ask those body builders to see if anybody wants to be your sparring partner (and join in your "fighting club")?


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## isshinryuronin (Nov 19, 2021)

Ugh said:


> What so I should just ignore red flags.. like a moron?


You are one big red flag.  If your tone here is similar to what you project at the gyms you've visited, no wonder they did not welcome you onto the mat.


Ugh said:


> I would but I always freeze and my body rejects any attempts I make at striking the other person.


If this is your starting point, you are not ready to spar by a long shot as has been suggested already.  You need to train your body's reaction and muscle memory thru a few hundred/thousand drills first.  There is no shortcut to this.  If you are reluctant to listen to those with many years of experience here, I see a dim future for your progress.


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## Ugh (Nov 19, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> You are one big red flag.  If your tone here is similar to what you project at the gyms you've visited, no wonder they did not welcome you onto the mat.
> 
> If this is your starting point, you are not ready to spar by a long shot as has been suggested already.  You need to train your body's reaction and muscle memory thru a few hundred/thousand drills first.  There is no shortcut to this.  If you are reluctant to listen to those with many years of experience here, I see a dim future for your progress.


I'm sorry all I read in your first paragraph is "wEH wEh, you don't sugar-coat anything and I'm offended." Drive off a cliff.

As for your second paragraph. If you're so adamant on reading the previous responses (and we're halfway intelligent about it) you would have seen me say that I did have a single unofficial tap-sparring session where I was quite comfortable.


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## _Simon_ (Nov 19, 2021)

I hear clackledockling is pretty good........


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## ballen0351 (Nov 19, 2021)

Ugh said:


> I'm sorry all I read in your first paragraph is "wEH wEh, you don't sugar-coat anything and I'm offended." Drive off a cliff.
> 
> As for your second paragraph. If you're so adamant on reading the previous responses (and we're halfway intelligent about it) you would have seen me say that I did have a single unofficial tap-sparring session where I was quite comfortable.


Yeah I have no idea why they wouldn't let you spar.......


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 19, 2021)

drop bear said:


> Do mma.


I'd be astonished if there wasn't an MMA gym somewhere near, and more astonished if said gym didn't have folks sparring regularly.

At the same time, I wonder how long OP is staying at a given gym before deciding it doesn't have enough focus. If he's expecting sparring the first couple of classes, even most places I've seen that spar a lot wouldn't put a new person in sparring that soon. Some will, but not most.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 19, 2021)

Ugh said:


> Waterloo NY.
> 
> -Muay thai
> -Dutch Kickboxing
> ...


And none of those did sparring? Or did they hold you back from sparring, while there was other sparring going on? Or did they simply not let you spar as much as you hoped?


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 19, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> I'd be astonished if there wasn't an MMA gym somewhere near, and more astonished if said gym didn't have folks sparring regularly.
> 
> At the same time, I wonder how long OP is staying at a given gym before deciding it doesn't have enough focus. If he's expecting sparring the first couple of classes, even most places I've seen that spar a lot wouldn't put a new person in sparring that soon. Some will, but not most.


They listed 5-6 schools they had attended and stated that they had never stayed more than 2 months at any of them.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 19, 2021)

Ugh said:


> I would but I always freeze and my body rejects any attempts I make at striking the other person.


This is likely why they haven't had you sparring. Getting you to a point where you can respond will make sparring possible. Throwing you in while your anxiety causes you to freeze may make things worse.


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## caped crusader (Nov 19, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> They listed 5-6 schools they had attended and stated that they had never stayed more than 2 months at any of them.


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## Gerry Seymour (Nov 19, 2021)

Dirty Dog said:


> They listed 5-6 schools they had attended and stated that they had never stayed more than 2 months at any of them.


Agreed. My point was that I don't think it's about schools not sparring in his area.


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## caped crusader (Nov 19, 2021)

isshinryuronin said:


> You are one big red flag. If your tone here is similar to what you project at the gyms you've visited, no wonder they did not welcome you onto the mat.


Mate if he's tried all these gyms or styles and leaves after such a short time then it must be on him.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 19, 2021)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. My point was that I don't think it's about schools not sparring in his area.


I would be amazed if it were the schools. Frankly, with the issues they have mentioned and the attitude they have displayed, I wouldn't let them spar either.


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## Blindside (Nov 19, 2021)

Ugh said:


> I've done shoulder/body-tap sparring successfully before. Granted I had no idea what I was doing, and I'm sure the guy I was doing it with saw oodles in opportunities to KO me but still. That's why I say it would be better than nothing. Because I can actually start there.


 So why didn't you stay with that school?  One that apparently allowed you to start a type of sparring?


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## Ugh (Nov 19, 2021)

Blindside said:


> So why didn't you stay with that school?  One that apparently allowed you to start a type of sparring?


It was very unofficial and they hardly ever did it.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Nov 19, 2021)

My kenpo school well let u spar


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## Kung Fu Wang (Nov 19, 2021)

My school will force you to spar no matter you may like it or not. I use sparring as part of the warm up sequence.


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## drop bear (Nov 19, 2021)

Have you considered wrestling or bjj or something like that?

They tend to roll or spar every session.


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## wab25 (Nov 22, 2021)

So, one of the styles I train is Shotokan. One of the main problems with Shotokan, is that there is so much variation in how each school actually trains. 

In some Shotokan schools, students spar right away. And it looks like it. Yes, they are in there throwing punches and kicks... but since they can barely do the techniques... there are not using the techniques very well. Sure, you will see some of the students start regularly winning... but thats mainly because they are better at the game and know the guy they are sparring and how they play. Put this student with a new person, that they have never seen, and many times they get schooled pretty good. Not because the other guy is better, just because he is different then the people he usually spars with.

In other schools, they take the new students and bring them up to a reasonable level with the basic techniques. Then, they will do drills that simulate sparring situations. These are one step, three step, five step drills. (one attack - one defense and counter, three attacks - three defenses and a counter...) Movement and footwork drills, blocking and evading drills. These drills can slowly evolve into light sparring. Eventually, the student will be involved in sparring. Yes, this approach takes longer. But, the students usually, look like Shotokan Karate fighters as opposed to untrained people swinging away at each other.

While the first is tempting, because you get to spar sooner... you also get to make a lot of really bad habits, because not only are you not proficient in the techniques, but you are also not proficient at moving. The problem with bad habits is that they are really hard to break, especially when someone is trying to hit you.

For me, I find that it works better to learn correct stance, movement, structure and technique before trying to do those with people punching me. 

Just to parrot what other folks have said... you now have a question for any new place you want to check out. How do you introduce new people to sparring? Once you know how they normally do this, you may want to bring up your issues with freezing or anxiety or whatever, and see how they respond.

Or, find an MMA gym, they tend to spar / roll right away. Thats a double edged sword though. I trained MMA for a few years, and yes I sparred right away. But, so did every other new guy. Sometimes they came in and didn't know anything and you worked them over. Sometimes they did know what they were doing and they worked you over. Sometimes, they suddenly become super wild and over aggressive, with a massive ego... then it gets a little scary, because one of you is getting hurt.

Again, ask questions up front. Realize that there are multiple ways to achieve the outcome you want and that different ways work for different people. It may be that the way that will improve your abilities the most, may be the slowest starting. But, they should at least be able to let you know the plan.


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## caped crusader (Nov 22, 2021)

wab25 said:


> Sometimes, they suddenly become super wild and over aggressive, with a massive ego..


Those are the guys who should just break Boards..on a serious note I do not think beginners should be subjected to a wild free for all untill they have some training under their Belt.


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## Oily Dragon (Nov 22, 2021)

Ugh said:


> Dutch Kickboxing Mcdojo. Imagine that.



If that was some sort of fast food like the McRib, yes.  I'd eat it.

Did you know the original meaning of "spar" was boxing without really boxing?

That's because just like fast food, sparring is best done in controlled amounts.  And people who are too consumed with sparring for sparring's sake will end up the same as the people who consume fast food regularly.

For that reason I suggest choosing slowly grilled chicken over fried, and training more than sparring.  Can you run 10 miles without stopping?  IF not, forget sparring for now.  You are probably not ready.


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## _Simon_ (Nov 23, 2021)

Oily Dragon said:


> If that was some sort of fast food like the McRib, yes.  I'd eat it.
> 
> Did you know the original meaning of "spar" was boxing without really boxing?
> 
> ...


..................... now I just feel like chicken...........


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## mjw1 (Nov 23, 2021)

Dutch kickboxing typically spar hard at least 1x weekly. You must be intimidating all the teachers or something....


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## auntlisa1103 (Nov 23, 2021)

I would submit that what you actually need at this point instead of *free* sparring is *step* sparring. *Choreographed* sparring. Everyone knows the attack and everyone knows the defense. Build muscle memory (and self-confidence) through attack-and-defend drills so that responding becomes instinctive and you are less likely to freeze.

If you are anything like I was before I entered TKD, you freeze because neither your instincts nor your limbs know what to do. 

And also you need to give a gym longer than two months before you skate.


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## auntlisa1103 (Nov 23, 2021)

Another note. Six weeks into TKD, I down blocked my 50 lb lab puppy to the chest out of pure instinct because he was taking a running leap at me (playfully/excited). I gave it zero thought. It just happened. And the only free sparring I had done was to use black belts as punching bags a couple of times. That instinct was far more due to one step sparring than free sparring.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Nov 23, 2021)

Ugh said:


> What so I should just ignore red flags.. like a moron?


What makes it a red flag? Being patient isn’t being a moron.  If I have a new student, I never allow any sparring with them until they demonstrate a sincere desire to learn. That means swallowing the ego, doing the work, and being polite.  To become strong you must have the courage to be weak. Accept that you don’t know the process that you are attempting to engage in. You must trust the instructor, and they must be able to trust in you. It takes time to build that trust.


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## MrBigglesworth (Dec 7, 2021)

Ugh said:


> The answer to your question is "no." At least for the Dutch Kickboxing place. There was a guy there who had been training for a year and they still didn't let him spar.
> 
> Dutch Kickboxing Mcdojo. Imagine that.


Maybe they know the guy by now and realise that if he spars, someone (either himself or his opponent) is going to get hurt unnecessarily.

As for the OP, they probably realised after 5 minutes that whoever gets in the OP is going to want to knock his head clean off, which is bad for the club's insurance premium. ;-)


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