# Can some more experienced jujutsuka take a look at this website for me?



## Makalakumu (Apr 10, 2009)

http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/

What do you think about this place?  I have some experience in DZR and I'm interested in starting up again, but I'd like to fish around and see what people think.  This seems like a splinter group of DZR to me.

The connection to Hawaiian Lua is fascinating.  I may start a new thread on that.

http://www.pixi.com/~mcjitsu/okazaki/article03.html


----------



## Aiki Lee (Apr 16, 2009)

I think the only way to know is to see them for yourself.


----------



## Makalakumu (Apr 16, 2009)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I think the only way to know is to see them for yourself.



Well, that's what I did and so far I have a mixed reaction.  This dojo definitely has a more esoteric take on jujutsu.  Class starts with Ki exercises and moves into kata lists and is very technical with details being explained as moving Ki this way or that.  That's fine, I've dealt with that before and I know enough to translate it into the way that I understand things.

A good thing about the dojo is that they really have a multicultural approach to the martial arts.  DZR is an eclectic system to begin with and being so close to the source gives me the opportunity to really understand how it was built.  That's cool.

On top of that, this dojo teaches the seifukujutsu lists which was not taught in MN where I used to train.  The restorative massage and thereputic aspects of the art have always interested me and I appreciate the fact that Okazaki really tried to teach how to heal as much as how to hurt.  

So, I'm going to stick around for a while.  A few classes is not enough time to really get a complete picture of what's going on.


----------



## kaizasosei (Apr 16, 2009)

It was interesting to see that the game of Go is being promoted on that site.

About the 'mizujutsu' -which is not the best japanese-but nevertheless a cool art, i never thought about fighting in full scubagear...why not carry some knife, pliers or scisors and simply cut the attackers tubes or simply rip out the mouthpiece.



j


----------



## Makalakumu (Apr 16, 2009)

There are a lot of interesting aspects of this dojo that I really like.  I know nothing about the game.  I wonder how it ties to jujutsu practice, if at all?

As an aside, this dojo has been operating since 1929.  Seishiro Okazaki's early students opened it up in the basement of the temple in order to teach the art that he taught.


----------



## kaizasosei (Apr 16, 2009)

Go is an amazing game.  It is extremely strategic.  When you think you are going to get the other guy, your heart may start to race, and the opponent may well feel that.  Of course if you are a master, you don't play as aggressively because you can use the mistakes of the other.    
But Go is a deep game and is so simple that i can teach it to you in a matter of minutes-the entire game...but the consequences of ones actions are extreme, and if you get out a Go book or watch a show on tv about Go, you'd think i was a lier and that the game is so hard it's impossible to understand.  I like playing and have even had the chance of playing with some champion players as well as with many more or less equal friends..but i have to admit to being baffled by the explainations of the higher ups.  With Go, there are kyu ranks like in the martial arts and the finally there is a black belt level, just like martial arts. 


  Basically, i find that the game fuses two minds and tandens together almost like real fighting.  
It is not a simple thing for even the best in the world to win all other stones and take all stones prisoner.  If the victim has any skill or luck, it should be well possible to secure at least a little space.  The goal is to take up as much space as possible-as well as capturing the enemy stones and stone formations by encircling them and destroying their integrity-ie.  stone formations that live and ones that die.  It's about life and death.


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist (Apr 16, 2009)

Mizujutsu...Well I know some classic schools did practice arts in water.
http://smaa-hq.com/bios/iwasaki.php

But I thought it was a dead art.

It seems Dan zan ryu comes from Yoshin ryu mixed with other styles.

 Dan zan ryu seems to be a Gendai art and not a Koryu art.

 This is not a bad thing it just states the time period of development and it may not follow traditional mannerism as found in Koryu arts.

I don't see anything that are red flags the history sounds like a typical history nothing that makes outrageous claims. The Hula Lua thing I really have no idea how true that is. Maybe someone who has more understanding of this school can chime in.


----------



## jarrod (Apr 16, 2009)

i honestly don't know what to think of the place based on the website.  i'd check it out if i were nearby though.  

jf


----------



## Chris Parker (Apr 17, 2009)

Just for the record, Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu teaches aspects of fighting in water as part of the Okuden section of it's scroll, the term they use is Suichu Shiai no Waza Moguri Gata, which translates roughly as Fighting Techniques in Mid Water, Diving/Submerging Patterns. A bit of a mouthful, but there you are.

Despite the name, it doesn't actually involve techniques, rather a series of principles applying to shallow water (where you can stand), and deep water (where it is overhead), and includes weapon tactics as well as unarmed combat. My favourite principle is simple: Be able to stay underwater longer than the opponent. Classic, simple, obvious. Must remember that one...

Togakure Ryu also involves some water principles, including the use of Shinodake (a breathing tube), as well as methods of silent entry and exit from water (much harder than I first thought!), and silent swimming concepts.

If these types of things are taught, they can be a lot of fun, so enjoy! But, back on topic, I agree with the advice already given: check them out yourself, and see what you think.


----------



## Aiki Lee (Apr 19, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Just for the record, Shinden Fudo Ryu Jutaijutsu teaches aspects of fighting in water as part of the Okuden section of it's scroll, the term they use is Suichu Shiai no Waza Moguri Gata, which translates roughly as Fighting Techniques in Mid Water, Diving/Submerging Patterns. A bit of a mouthful, but there you are.
> 
> 
> Togakure Ryu also involves some water principles, including the use of Shinodake (a breathing tube), as well as methods of silent entry and exit from water (much harder than I first thought!), and silent swimming concepts.
> ...


 
I can attest to that. In the Jizaikan we practiced these things last July during a shugyo. It was fantastic. The only issue I had was being able to swim with your hands a feet bound. One is supposed to kind of "snake" their way through water the way a dolphin moves its body, but I couldn't quite get the movements right.


----------



## Makalakumu (Apr 19, 2009)

Himura Kenshin said:


> I can attest to that. In the Jizaikan we practiced these things last July during a shugyo. It was fantastic. The only issue I had was being able to swim with your hands a feet bound. One is supposed to kind of "snake" their way through water the way a dolphin moves its body, but I couldn't quite get the movements right.



It sounds like the kick that you do for the butterfly stroke.  That takes practice and frustration.  Then one day, you do it and it works forever.

So far I've gone to three classes.  The monday class is very technical, we work mostly on kata.  The wednesday is composed mostly of drills.  The friday class they work on the esoteric aspects from breathing to massage.  It seems pretty cool so far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshin_ryu

The ryu claims to be descended from Yoshin Ryu jujutsu.  The story is that Okazaki learned Yoshin Ryu from a master who emmigrated to the Big Island (Hawaii) right around 1910ish.  I've also read that Yoshin ryu is an extinct school now.  Is that true?

Also, according to the article, Yoshin had a vital point striking list that they were known for.  I wonder if this is similar to what is taught in karate?


----------



## Chris Parker (Apr 20, 2009)

A number of classical systems are known for their kyusho lists, each often claiming to have "secret points" not known outside of the particular school. I'm a little doubtful of that, really. Within the Ninjutsu community, the two schools most known for their kyusho lists are Koto Ryu and Takagi Yoshin Ryu (no relation ot Yoshin Ryu). These two lists have very similar points, with the Koto Ryu being probably the more complete.

The way these lists would be written would change, however, with some schools going so far as to have very obscure or less-than-informative diagrams (one of the oddest I have seen is basically a circle, which is supposed to represent [symbolically] a person's body, and a number of points listed, but not described or located, around it). So, yes, it is probably somewhat similar to the kind of kyusho list you may find in a karate organisation, just expressed a bit differently.


----------

