# "Wing Chun" energy



## Tanizaki (Aug 16, 2007)

As requested, I am starting a new thread. I need someone to explain to me the transfer of energy from the planet Earth to a human being. Thanks.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 16, 2007)

AKA Kinetic Linking. The basic idea is (as you punch), you push on the ground with your feet, the force you used goes up your leg. As you push on the ground, you straighten your knees out, the combined power goes up your thigh/hip. Then, you flex your hips forward, the new combined power goes into you arm/shoulder. As you rotate your arm, the combined force is sent into you elbow, which gains greater power as you straighten your elbow. The force is then sent into you forearm, and gains more power with the flextion of your forearm.
Keep in mind, this is not a very Wing Chun thing to do. This is more of a Western Boxing method. Or are you talking about Chi/Qi? Or, something else entirely?


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 17, 2007)

Tanazaki, as usual is trying to take the mick out of Brocklee who posted a good post about transfer of energies. Tanazaki was asked to keep on topic as he was waffling on, so has created this post. 

Everytime you use the ground to stand in stance or to resist an oncoming force you are transferring energy to and from the ground. 

There is nothing magical about this, it is scientific fact. 

Cuong has hit the nail straight on the head with his explanation although Brocklee's original post covered this.


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## profesormental (Aug 18, 2007)

Greetings.

Remember that the Chinese language is by design descriptive of HOW in sensory/metaphorical terms, and the why wasn't that well known until the last quarter of this century.

So some can't explain why, yet they can teach you how.

And from that how you can eventually get the WHY and make the execution even better.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado

P.S. I can get energy from the Earth in the form of Natural Gas, Uranium and Hydroelectric plants... even though that would be from the water... and BEER!!:drinkbeer oh well...


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## CheukMo (Aug 18, 2007)

CuongNhuka has it right about the way the energy works.  The whole thing about muscle versus bone structure is, as Professor Mental said, somewhat mis-translated.  It is not the amount of muscle you do or don't have, it is the relaxation of those muscles 99.9% of the time.  The tightening of the fist at impact is an example of the .1% of time when the amount of muscle you have to tighten/tension.


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## profesormental (Aug 19, 2007)

Greetings.

There are many ways to generate pain upon an attacker... there are many ways to generate impact, control, etc.

Yet the ways that are optimally efficient are another matter...

The human body has static configurations and dynamic configurations to move from one stable position to another. Impact, and transference of energy should occur on these static instances, since if you hit in a dynamic configuration, your body will absorb a lot of the impact in the joints and such, and the attacker will only get mad at you for trying... or will just look at you funny.

So in many instances... the generation of power is not the problem... the TRANSFERENCE of energy and force is...

Hope that makes sense.

Juan M. Mercado


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## brocklee (Aug 20, 2007)

Nice, everyone of you hit the nail on the head and in a very descriptive way. 

Kudos


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## Changhfy (Aug 22, 2007)

Based on the Chinese Wu Gong.

There are three ways to transmit energy.
Tien Qi- Heaven Qi (examples energy from the Sun, stars, even ability to tap into the unlimited resevoir of Tien Qi)

Yan Qi- Human Qi (examples include pre-natal, post natal etc...)

Tu Qi- Earth Qi (examples food, water, air, etc...)

Then from here we regulate each of the five elements and their corresponding paths (Lu)

Huo-Fire-Heart
Shui-Water-Kidneys
Jin-Metal-Lungs
Tu-Earth-Spleen
Mu-Wood-Liver

These are the Yin organs.

Generally what was referenced in the other posts seems more like Gihng or Jing (transmission of Qi)

Or Gong-practise

This is basic Qi Gong knowledge.


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## Changhfy (Aug 22, 2007)

When starting the transmission of energy-Gihng.

It's best to start out with the Small or Little circulation- Xiao Zho Tien.

This is more of a process to jump start the energy cultivation of post natal and pre natal Qi.

Its more of a series of breathing methods and cultivating the Yi and Shen and at the same time balancing each so as not to have to much or too little of either. This will cause disruptions and distortions of the energy paths or channels. 

Then from there you would generally start the cultivation of Big or sometimes translated as Grand Circulation- Da Zho Tien.

Hope this helps, this is more ways to tap into Human Qi or Yan Qi.

Take note the cultivation and transmission are two different natures. But without cultivation you can't transmission of Energy.



take care,


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## brocklee (Aug 22, 2007)

Sounds like Bok Wa (sp?)

Am I correct?


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## Changhfy (Aug 22, 2007)

Are you referring to Bagua-Pak Kua?

Based on Qi gong these methods are universal, if you study Acupuncture or Chinese medicine than these concepts are required.

Its also how you diagnose certain disorders, not so much style or expression specific.

The Wu Xing is more of a universal concept. Bagua does make use of it, but so does Taiji, Tong Bei etc... Even certain families of Wing Chun(Ving Tsun). 

The transmission or Gihng is also a universal concept, how a student displays it varies but the concept is universal.


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## KamonGuy2 (Aug 23, 2007)

That isn't free running is it? I know that free running is called something like pak kwa


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## Tez3 (Aug 23, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> That isn't free running is it? I know that free running is called something like pak kwa


 
Free running is 'parkour', it's from the French Parcours du Combattant


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## brocklee (Aug 23, 2007)

Kamon Guy said:


> That isn't free running is it? I know that free running is called something like pak kwa



No, Bagua is said to be the basis from which wing chun came from.  Similar movements just much larger and more circular.  If you think of the movie dragon, there was the guy that broke bruce lee's back.  In the first fight where bruce is fighting so that he may train the "gui lo", his opponent was using Bagua.  There are like 5 forms within itself.  I think its white crane, tiger and .....well, I can't quite remember.  Anyone know?  Actually Changhfy, care to fill us in?  You seem to know a great deal.


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## Changhfy (Aug 23, 2007)

Hey brocklee,

I'm at work right now. I had just enough time to drop by the forum, so I'll add some of my notes on Bagua Zhang later.


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## CheukMo (Aug 23, 2007)

BaGua Zhang (Baat Gua in Cantonese) is a style based on the eight (baat) trigram (gua) from Chinese philosophy. I can't add much more than that.
http://qi-journal.com/philosophy.asp?-Token.FindPage=1&-Token.SearchID=EightTrigrams 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua_(concept))
Maybe these links can help a little.


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 23, 2007)

CheukMo said:


> BaGua Zhang (Baat Gua in Cantonese) is a style based on the eight (baat) trigram (gua) from Chinese philosophy. I can't add much more than that.
> http://qi-journal.com/philosophy.asp?-Token.FindPage=1&-Token.SearchID=EightTrigrams
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua_(concept))
> Maybe these links can help a little.


 
Let me add a little from my limited knowledge. Firstly, I doubt that Wing Chun and Ba Gua have too much in common. Ba Gua is based off Taoism, and was a largely Northern style, based off elements (Xing Yi is based off animals, I could be mistaken). Ba Gua is also based heavly off circular movements and steps. This conflicts with Wing Chun, which is a Southern style, and is based off straight lines. 
The story I heard is that the "founder/discoverer" learned the style after watching a boy doing "Shadow Boxing" on a large stone. He asked the boy were he had learned what he was doing (the founder had a lot of experience prior to this, and noticed the power of what the boy was doing). The boy answered, and the man was later led to were the boy learned the style. The man was impressed by various demonstrations of martial skill and power, and learned the style. 
When he had mastered it, he took it to the outside world, and gained a name for himself as a Boxer. And by the time he had died, he had been in (possibly) hundreds of fights, and never lost. The closest was a draw with the founder of Xing Yi. 

The story I heard about the founding of Wing Chun was that a Buddist Nun founded the style by teaching it to a girl who was being harassed by a local war lord. And the Nun was a Master of Shaolin. 

But, what do I know?


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## qi-tah (Aug 24, 2007)

I found an interesting article the other day on Ba gua that talks about the some of the meanings of the constant changes within the art - might this be a way to compare Ba gua and Wing Chun? Seen side by side they look utterly different, as CuongNhuka has pointed out (wing chun looks more like xing yi to me), but there might be deeper similarities. Certainly the two arts could have a great deal to offer each other.

Here is the article 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://xoomer.alice.it/sinicus/what_i_understand_of_bgz.htm


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## CuongNhuka (Aug 24, 2007)

qi-tah said:


> wing chun looks more like xing yi to me


 
Well, my understanding is that Xing Yi is based on Shaolin Long Fist, which is based on Shaolin Temple Boxing (could be the same thing, I cann't really recall), which is what Wing Chun is supposed to be based on.


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## CheukMo (Aug 27, 2007)

My understanding is that the animal forms come from the snake and crane forms.  For this reason many Wing Chun school logos will have a snake and crane fighting...


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## bcbernam777 (Aug 27, 2007)

profesormental said:


> Greetings.
> 
> So in many instances... the generation of power is not the problem... the TRANSFERENCE of energy and force is...
> 
> ...


 
True which is the key reason for the importance of unity of structure


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## brocklee (Aug 27, 2007)

Theres a nice story behind the snake and crane.  Doesn't really have to do with forms like other kung fu styles that are based off of animal forms.  Has to do with the simple concepts.  Crane rotates on center axis and deflects snake's attack with wing.  The snake had stayed coiled and used a spring like tension to launch his attacks.  Also, snake had something to do with foot work.  Not too sure though.

Many variations to the story.


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## DaveyBoy (Aug 27, 2007)

brocklee said:


> Theres a nice story behind the snake and crane. Doesn't really have to do with forms like other kung fu styles that are based off of animal forms. Has to do with the simple concepts. Crane rotates on center axis and deflects snake's attack with wing. The snake had stayed coiled and used a spring like tension to launch his attacks. Also, snake had something to do with foot work. Not too sure though.
> 
> Many variations to the story.



That story seems to tie in nicely with the "circles for defence, triangles/straight lines for attack" principles that some Wing Chun lineages employ. Nice.

The snake footwork sounds kinda ironic given the number of feet that snakes have -  sounds more applicable to grappling to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


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## brocklee (Aug 27, 2007)

DaveyBoy said:


> That story seems to tie in nicely with the "circles for defence, triangles/straight lines for attack" principles that some Wing Chun lineages employ. Nice.
> 
> The snake footwork sounds kinda ironic given the number of feet that snakes have -  sounds more applicable to grappling to me
> 
> ...



I do know that we have a footwork that acts like the snake slithers.  Your foot shoots out down the centerline while barely grazing the floor.  As your leg reaches full extension, you foot sweeps to the outward side of the center line and then the back leg follows.

I believe thats the foot work thats implied.

snails have feet  http://www.gireaud.net/us/escargot_anatomie_us.htm


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