# Junzuki -- Just what is it?



## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

So quick question here . . . a point of confusion.

At my wado-ryu school--which I should point out that is headed by one of the top wado guys in America, Sensei Toshio Osaka--we're taught that the "junzuki" is essentially a jab.  In fact, that's exactly what it is.

But when I run "junzuki" or "jun zuki" or "jun tsuki" through Google or YouTube it comes up with a variety of results, none of which look like the simple jab that I've been taught.

Does anyone have an explanation for this?  Is it a wado vs shotokan thing?  Or what?


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## Tez3 (Feb 14, 2012)

Read 'Introduction to Karate' by Shingo Ohgami. It explains Wado Ryu very nicely.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 14, 2012)

The translation is literally 'fundamental/basic/primary thrust/punch', so it can be whatever is considered just a basic punch to that system, or even that school/dojo/instructor. That may explain why you see a few different versions. I'd personally just follow what you're taught in your dojo as 'junzuki', and be aware of the others for interests' sake.


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> Read 'Introduction to Karate' by Shingo Ohgami. It explains Wado Ryu very nicely.



Thanks for the heads up.  I will certainly do that.

EDIT:  Wow.  Went to order this from Amazon and it's $70 used.  It might be a little while before I can pick it up.


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> The translation is literally 'fundamental/basic/primary thrust/punch', so it can be whatever is considered just a basic punch to that system, or even that school/dojo/instructor. That may explain why you see a few different versions. I'd personally just follow what you're taught in your dojo as 'junzuki', and be aware of the others for interests' sake.



Cool.  I guess that helps to explain it.

I just thought it was weird, since I've never heard "mae geri" or "mawashi geri" mean anything other than a front kick or roundhouse, respectively.  But this "junzuki" thing was raising some questions.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 14, 2012)

Ha, well, "mae" mean front, "keri/geri" means kick, and "mawashi" means "turn around", so that's understandable!


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, well, "mae" mean front, "keri/geri" means kick, and "mawashi" means "turn around", so that's understandable!



Ha.  Well I suppose I'm no linguist.

I just assumed that the same Japanese terminology corresponds to the same technique across the board.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 14, 2012)

Ooh, wow, good lord no.... just because they use a similar, or the same terminology, that doesn't mean that they're the same thing. For instance, there's a term "Koshi no Mawari", which refers to "around the hips"... in some systems, that refers to a throwing-heavy grappling system, but in others it refers to sword and short weapon use... as they would be what is found "around the hips". Then you have the term "Iai". Most recognise this as referring to sword drawing (but some systems use the term batto instead, or another term entirely), but there are systems that use it to refer to seated (unarmed) techniques... and others that use it for standing unarmed techniques. And from there it starts getting confusing....


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the info.

My background is in TKD, not Karate.  So all this karate stuff is new to me, haha.


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## dcsma (Feb 14, 2012)

Zuki if I remember from my Shotokan training days was a term for a punch in Shotokan.  But I ended only at a 9 Kyu in Shotokan.  My main art is in TKD 2nd Dan.


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## Chris Parker (Feb 14, 2012)

Yeah, "tsuki/zuki" literally refers to a thrusting forward action, and is pretty commonly used to refer to a straight punch in unarmed systems. With weapons, it's a thrust with that weapon.


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## Grenadier (Feb 14, 2012)

Back when I was a Wado practitioner, we referred to jun zuki as the "same side" punch, meaning that the right foot would be forward when the right hand punches, or the left foot would be forward when the left hand punches.  The term "jun zuki dachi" was used to describe our forward stance, which is normally referred to as "zen kutsu dachi."  

Gyaku zuki was the "opposite side" punch (what most people refer to as "reverse punch"), where the opposing foot was forward, instead of the same side foot.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 14, 2012)

Grenadier said:


> Back when I was a Wado practitioner, we referred to jun zuki as the "same side" punch, meaning that the right foot would be forward when the right hand punches, or the left foot would be forward when the left hand punches.  The term "jun zuki dachi" was used to describe our forward stance, which is normally referred to as "zen kutsu dachi."
> 
> Gyaku zuki was the "opposite side" punch (what most people refer to as "reverse punch"), where the opposing foot was forward, instead of the same side foot.



In Isshin-Ryu, the punch from the forward leg side is 'Seiken Oi Tsuki' and the reverse punch is 'Seiken Geaku Tsuki'.

However, I looked up 'Jun Tsuki' (instead of "junzuki") and it shows a different punch; something coming off the shoulder; we throw from the obi (belt) when we do a Seiken Oi Tsuki.  So perhaps not the same punch?

EDIT:  Found this video.  Looks like a jodan punch (to the head).






Our Jodan Oi Tsuki is a different variation, same target (the head).


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Grenadier said:


> Back when I was a Wado practitioner, we referred to jun zuki as the "same side" punch, meaning that the right foot would be forward when the right hand punches, or the left foot would be forward when the left hand punches.  The term "jun zuki dachi" was used to describe our forward stance, which is normally referred to as "zen kutsu dachi."
> 
> Gyaku zuki was the "opposite side" punch (what most people refer to as "reverse punch"), where the opposing foot was forward, instead of the same side foot.



Yes, that's exactly the way I'm being taught in wado.  Interesting to know that I might speak to a Shotokan guy and our wires will get crossed due to terminology.


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Bill Mattocks said:


> EDIT:  Found this video.  Looks like a jodan punch (to the head).



That's the junzuki no tsukomi (high leaning punch) which is a different punch than the junzuki.


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## Tez3 (Feb 14, 2012)

SPX said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I will certainly do that.
> 
> EDIT: Wow. Went to order this from Amazon and it's $70 used. It might be a little while before I can pick it up.



It shouldn't be that much. It's $33 on this site. Lots of other stuff too, his kata book is very good too. You can get both for $59.

http://www.wado-media.com/en/bin/sr...load.htm&UID=5163_153F300D&$query?group=01000


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## SPX (Feb 14, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> It shouldn't be that much. It's $33 on this site. Lots of other stuff too, his kata book is very good too. You can get both for $59.
> 
> http://www.wado-media.com/en/bin/sr...load.htm&UID=5163_153F300D&$query?group=01000



Cool, I'll check it out.


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## Ray B (Feb 15, 2012)

Jun tsuki/Choku tsuki/ Oi tsuki, all the same or different according to the organization you belong to. There is not one school syllabus that is the same. Shotokan calls chudan soto uke my chudan uchi uke. Why? I believe it's because the correct term in Shotokan is chudan soto ude uke meaning middle outside forearm block. Referring to the inside of the forearm. We, in Shorin-ryu refer to the arm direction sweeping to the outside.

What is correct? Sensei.

Best regards,


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## dancingalone (Feb 16, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> It shouldn't be that much. It's $33 on this site. Lots of other stuff too, his kata book is very good too. You can get both for $59.
> 
> http://www.wado-media.com/en/bin/sr...load.htm&UID=5163_153F300D&$query?group=01000



Unless my eyes deceive me, the price is 33 Euros, not US dollars.  With the conversion to dollars along with s/h from Europe, $70 is probably close enough.

If anyone is interested in buying a Wado book, I actually think the Danubio book has a better layout and it includes the kumite sets.


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## Tez3 (Feb 16, 2012)

I still only paid about £6 new for the books though, they must be very expensive in America.


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## dancingalone (Feb 16, 2012)

Tez3 said:


> I still only paid about £6 new for the books though, they must be very expensive in America.



An imported good with a very small audience in general for it?  Yes, I would expect it to be relatively expensive.  My copy of the Ohgami kata book was around $45 or so for the black hardback edition when I bought it from Abe Books, who specializes in out-of-print or scarce books.  Somewhat pricy for a little book I guess.


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## SPX (Feb 16, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> Unless my eyes deceive me, the price is 33 Euros, not US dollars.  With the conversion to dollars along with s/h from Europe, $70 is probably close enough.



Yeah, $49.50 + shipping is the price that I'm seeing.


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## SPX (Feb 16, 2012)

dancingalone said:


> If anyone is interested in buying a Wado book, I actually think the Danubio book has a better layout and it includes the kumite sets.



That's interesting.

I actually used his Pinan Shodan vid on YouTube to help learn the kata and it was a lot of help.


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## sopraisso (Feb 21, 2012)

Hey, maybe you should take a look at this site:
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/

The mentioned Shingo Ohgami works are here:
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Karate-Kata-Do-Ryu-Shingo-Ohgami/9789197023108
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Introduction-Karate-Shingo-Ohgami/9789197023115

I can see the "Introduction To Karate" is currently anavailable, but from my experience it can be there again at any time (anyway, chek out the price of the other book, maybe you'll have a happy surprise). This site has good prices and... the delivery is _free_. I've already bought books in it and I plan to buy more in the future.

I looked for Roberto Danubio's books in it, too, but unfortunately only found his DVDs. Anyway, I believe you would have another option now when you're looking for a book.


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## Jason Striker II (Feb 21, 2012)

I think the other members have answered your query, but a couple of points you might like to know.

First, Wado-Ryu, Karate-wise, is based in Shotokan (the grappling aspect is from Shind&#333; Y&#333;shin-ry&#363. Next, what is called oi-zuki, lunge punch, in Shotokan, is re-termed jun-zuki in Wado.


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## Sojobo (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello,

In Wado-ryu &#8211; Junzuki is reference to a stepping lunge punch that is performed same arm to leg forward.

Also &#8211; and it does get a bit slippery here &#8211; it is done in Junzuki-dachi, as strictly speaking we don&#8217;t use Zenkutsu-dachi in Wado-ryu.

A leading hand punch that is done by sliding forward (as opposedto ayumi-ashi, or stepping through (back leg past front)) is most commonly called tobikomizuki.



> First, Wado-Ryu, Karate-wise, is based in Shotokan (the grapplingaspect is from Shind&#333; Y&#333;shin-ry&#363. Next, what is called oi-zuki, lunge punch,in Shotokan, is re-termed jun-zuki in Wado



Hmm, not really:

Although Otsuka trained with Funakoshi for a period (as well as Motobu, and Mabuni etc) you have to bear in mind that the Karate he practiced with Funakoshi was verydifferent to the Shotokan of today. He also trained with him for a relatively short period of time.

In truth, it&#8217;s not just the grappling element that was incorporated from Shindo Yoshinryu &#8211; it&#8217;s basically most of the principles behind the entire system.

At best, Otsuka utilized the external structure of the Kata he learnt from Funakoshi andco and tailored them to suit his own vision of Wado.

If we look at Junzuki for example, on the surface, it does look  similar to Shoto&#8217;s Oizuki, but the mechanics behind it are slightly different and for different reasons. There is a little more rotation of the hip/shoulderand the centre of mass is more centred rather than forward.

From a Wado perspective, the practice of Junzuki is anexercise in movement as a whole. It is considered much more than just a punch.

Regards


Sojobo


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