# 'I Pledge to serve Obama....'



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

At least that's what these tools are doing...... 




Since when did the citizens of the United States SERVE the President?

Papa Doc Barrack indeed......'I pledge to be a servant to our President.....' Scary lines, couched in the notion that they're talking about community service (if so, then WHY the homage to Obama?).....book-ended by Iconic paintings of Obama in Heroic pose!


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> At least that's what these tools are doing......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

_*"Change"*_ is scary! :lfao:


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> _*Change*_ is scary! :lfao:


I bet you didn't even look at the video, your knee just jerked out of habit.

'You're just....afraid of change....yeah.......you should be ready to be assimilated.......but you're just....afraid'  :lfao:

So what do you Pledge to your Supreme Leader Papa Doc Barrack?


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> You're like the guy swearing the titanic's not going down, the ship is unsinkable.


 
No-far, far from it. I'm the one swearing the ship's going down-saw the iceberg(*s*) quite some time ago, and I built my own damn lifeboat, because the Captain, crew and most of my fellow passengers think I'm nuts....:lfao:



sgtmac_46 said:


> I bet you didn't even look at the video, your knee just jerked out of habit....do you pledge?


 
You'd be wrong-watched it right up to the bicep-kissing idiot's _I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama._

"Change *is* scary."


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> No-far, far from it. I'm the one swearing the ship's going down-saw the iceberg(*s*) quite some time ago, and I built my own damn lifeboat, because the Captain, crew and most of my fellow passengers think I'm nuts....:lfao:


 You and I are in agreement, then......this ship has been heading in the wrong direction for quite some time! 





elder999 said:


> You'd be wrong-watched it right up to the bicep-kissing idiot's _I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama._
> 
> "Change *is* scary."


 Brain dead tools like those clowns are far scarier than change.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 23, 2009)

Yeah, that was a fairly mindless and scary 4:18.  I would't worry too much, though, about some feel-good soundbite put together by a group of celebrities.  Glad to see that Demi Moore's still hot though.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Yeah, that was a fairly mindless and scary 4:18.  I would't worry too much, though, about some feel-good soundbite put together by a group of celebrities.  Glad to see that Demi Moore's still hot though.



Still hot and still vacuous.  

As to worrying....I wouldn't worry, if this video wasn't more of the same kind of messianic worshipping behavior we have seen even among the NEWS MEDIA!  

This isn't isolated, this is a trend....and criticism of it is USUALLY followed by the charge that anyone who DISAGREES is 'hateful' and 'IN THE WAY'!  

It's a CULT!  It's as if L. RON HUBBARD were elected PRESIDENT!


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Still hot and still vacuous.
> 
> As to worrying....I wouldn't worry, if this video wasn't more of the same kind of messianic worshipping behavior we have seen even among the NEWS MEDIA!
> 
> ...


 
I don't think of it as a cult so much as the usual mania that follows something historic...which Obama's election to the Presidency was.  Couple that with the fact that it's right on the heels of the end of one of the worst presidencies since Nixon, and there's a sense of euphoria.

Don't get me wrong, I'm rolling my eyes at this kind of messianic stuff as well, but it too shall pass.  I don't think it's going to result in any rights-infringing cults, just short-sighted celebration by celebrities that have no clue.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> Yeah, that was a fairly mindless and scary 4:18. I would't worry too much, though, about some feel-good soundbite put together by a group of celebrities. Glad to see that Demi Moore's still hot though.


 
Quite so - most especially on the latter point .  Indeed, waiting for Demi to come back on was the most affecting part of the whole thing for me.  Well that and my natural reaction of "Oh for crying out loud!  He's a new president, not the last of the Jedi".


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## CoryKS (Jan 23, 2009)

I threw up in my mouth a little.  If they do the same bangup job for Obama that they did for Hollywood, the man is doomed.


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## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

Um ... I'm half-way through the video and I see celebrities pledging to be responsible citizens ... will continue watching to the end, though.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> I don't think of it as a cult so much as the usual mania that follows something historic...which Obama's election to the Presidency was.  Couple that with the fact that it's right on the heels of the end of one of the worst presidencies since Nixon, and there's a sense of euphoria.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm rolling my eyes at this kind of messianic stuff as well, but it too shall pass.  I don't think it's going to result in any rights-infringing cults, just short-sighted celebration by celebrities that have no clue.


 I see it as a little more serious than that.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Um ... I'm half-way through the video and I see celebrities pledging to be responsible citizens ... will continue watching to the end, though.



Okay, let me know when you get to the part where they 'Pledge to be servants to the President....' and everyone turns in to a Giant picture of Obama. 

The 'Public Service' stuff is just window dressing.......it's VERY THINLY veiled Cult of Personality Propaganda.


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## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

Ah! Finally found it!  Who's the dude who kissed his biceps?


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## CoryKS (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Um ... I'm half-way through the video and I see celebrities pledging to be responsible citizens ... will continue watching to the end, though.


 
My inner Chris Rock is saying, "You're SUPPOSED to be a responsible citizen, you low-expectation-having so-n-so!"  But I guess fairweather patriots are better than no patriots at all.  

Oh, wait, this isn't patriotism - they're pledging their loyalty to a MAN.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Quite so - most especially on the latter point .  Indeed, waiting for Demi to come back on was the most affecting part of the whole thing for me.  Well that and my natural reaction of "Oh for crying out loud!  He's a new president, not the last of the Jedi".



Last of the JEDI! :jediduel:


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

CoryKS said:


> My inner Chris Rock is saying, "You're SUPPOSED to be a responsible citizen, you low-expectation-having so-n-so!"  But I guess fairweather patriots are better than no patriots at all.
> 
> Oh, wait, this isn't patriotism - they're pledging their loyalty to a MAN.



EXACTLY!  It should be obvious when it pans back away from the individuals, to what i'm EXPECTING is an image of America formed by those individuals.....but WAIT!  It's a GIANT PAINTING OF........OBAMA!!!!

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!


I guess these folks have replaced 'DISSENT IS PATRIOTISM!' with 'IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US YOU'RE AGAINST OBAMA, LOVE AND AMERICA!'   eeekkk



......and it TRULY begins.....


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## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

Well ... hm.

First off, I think it's really great that people are inspired to get off their asses and do something that is the key to positive change in our country and ultimately the world - by giving service.

The whole "rally behind the president" isn't new, in fact it was practically demanded by the republican right, especially when we went to war.  "We need to get behind our president and support him in this!" I heard ringing ... oh hell, even right on these forums.  And to read that folks throw up at doing so for Obama, well, that's just stupid partyism and doesn't even deserve addressing anymore.

I have to say I have respect for all those with big names and big money who did these things anyway, regardless of who held office - but again, whatever it takes to inspire a person to move their duff, well ... so be it.  I noticed the obvious absence of celebs like Michael J. Fox whose cause is Parkinsons, Brangelina whose causes are ending world poverty and taking on some population excess, Ted Danson who has been campaigning for oceanic health since before it was popular, Doug Flutie et al whose cause is autism awareness (before it was well known), Nancy Reagan whose cause was addiction awareness, etc. etc. etc.

I think the president is in service to US.  But it is a two-way street.  By being of service to others in need, we're all in service to each other AND ourselves.  Can't get beyond that.

This instance of Obamasianism comes from celebrity, not him.  So blame Hollywood for this one.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> This instance of Obamasianism comes from celebrity, not him.  So blame Hollywood for this one.


 Oh no.....hold the phone.....he's fostered this messianic image from the very beginning....the 'Hope is on the WAY' stuff was ALL him, and he was referring to HIMSELF as 'The Hope'.......he doesn't get a pass on this stuff.

You CANNOT find a President in US history worshipped in this manner BEFORE HE WAS EVEN INAUGURATED!  Not even Washington, the hero of the Revolution!

The only parallel we find to the kind of 'ICONIC MURALS OF HIS FACE ON THE SIDE OF BUILDINGS' cult of personality stuff are in 3rd world DICTATORS!


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

Just a quick aside, as a general reminder to people before things get hot. 

We can, I'm sure, discuss this without it turning into yet another Democrat-Republican slang-fest. 

What would be of help in this is for people to take a second to consider what they have written before they post it.  A modicum of rephrasing is all it takes to head-off a flame-gasm sometimes.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

*digs through his costume box...muttering* "where did I put that fascist uniform I wore last halloween??"


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm not a hundred percent certain that the morphing into Obama isn't an edit/add-on from whoever posted it on Youtube. We'll probably see this as a TV commercial (if we haven't already?) sans the Obama-worship....though they are calling it a "Presidential pledge."
....I could be wrong, though. (There, just in case ya thought I couldn't say the words....:lfao


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> *digs through his costume box...muttering* "where did I put that fascist uniform I wore last halloween??"



That's pretty good.....if you can find a Soviet Political Commissar costume that would be even MORE ACCURATE! :uhyeah:


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> That's pretty good.....if you can find a Soviet Political Commissar costume that would be even MORE ACCURATE! :uhyeah:


 Well *no* uniform will be accurate until it has *this* in a patch on the shoulder or better yet an armband ... I'd be looking for it on police and military uniforms here sometime soon.


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## CoryKS (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> I'm not a hundred percent certain that the morphing into Obama isn't an edit/add-on from whoever posted it on Youtube. We'll probably see this as a TV commercial (if we haven't already?) sans the Obama-worship....though they are calling it a "Presidential pledge."
> ....I could be wrong, though. (There, just in case ya thought I couldn't say the words....:lfao


 
The morph was on the tv commercial I saw.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

Oh come on.   One little painting a dictator does not make.

I mean it's not like there's a bunch of statues of Obama out there showing him as divine.

Err....wait a minute...


> "Obama as Christ" Statue Causes Commotion in Chicago!


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> ....I could be wrong, though. (There, just in case ya thought I couldn't say the words....:lfao


 
:lol:

Oh my giddy aunt :faints: :rei:


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Oh come on.   One little painting a dictator does not make.
> 
> I mean it's not like there's a bunch of statues of Obama out there showing him as divine.
> 
> Err....wait a minute...


Oh Jeessu.... errr I mean Oh Brraaccckus 

is whats happening what I THINK is happening??


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> I'm not a hundred percent certain that the morphing into Obama isn't an edit/add-on from whoever posted it on Youtube. We'll probably see this as a TV commercial (if we haven't already?) sans the Obama-worship....though they are calling it a "Presidential pledge."
> ....I could be wrong, though. (There, just in case ya thought I couldn't say the words....:lfao



http://www.myspace.com/presidentialpledge

You are mistaken on that one.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Well *no* uniform will be accurate until it has *this* in a patch on the shoulder or better yet an armband ... I'd be looking for it on police and military uniforms here sometime soon.


  They'll probably make all us police and military take the 'OBAMA PLEDGE' too.....I'll be looking for a job at that point!


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## CoryKS (Jan 23, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Oh Jeessu.... errr I mean Oh Brraaccckus
> 
> is whats happening what I THINK is happening??


 
Yes.  But only if what you're thinking is what I think you're thinking.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Oh Jeessu.... errr I mean Oh Brraaccckus
> 
> is whats happening what I THINK is happening??


 Hmmmmmm.....


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

At the very least we can now say, for ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, who the TOOLS ARE in Hollywood!


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> At the very least we can now say, for ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, who the TOOLS ARE in Hollywood!


Sarge, are you sure you're not misspelling TOOLS and mean to say FOOLS?


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Ah! Finally found it! Who's the dude who kissed his biceps?


 

From what I've found by a quick scour of the Net, it was Anthony Kiedis {whoever he is? }.

Also, why was Ioan Gruffudd involved?  He was Welsh the last time I looked?


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## crushing (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> The whole "rally behind the president" isn't new, in fact it was practically demanded by the republican right, especially when we went to war. "We need to get behind our president and support him in this!" I heard ringing ... oh hell, even right on these forums. And to read that folks throw up at doing so for Obama, well, that's just stupid partyism and doesn't even deserve addressing anymore.


 
I was thinking the same thing and two sayings immediately come to mind:

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
The king is dead, long live the king.


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## crushing (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> From what I've found by a quick scour of the Net, it was *Anthony Kiedis* {whoever he is? }.
> 
> Also, *why was Ioan Gruffudd* involved? He was Welsh the last time I looked?


 
Red Hot Chili Peppers lead singer.

World leader with world appeal (so far).


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

Hmm, I wonder when it will be a requirement to memorize the birthdates of Obama and Biden?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

Look, there's no need to fear.  Just because he's got his own symbol, his own loyalty pledge, and there are statues and paintings of him going up all over the country, there's no proof that he's going to go the way all the other guys who had the same stuff did.

I mean, he did order the official torture center closed.  Would Sadamn have done that?
Sure he got 3 new cars, and 2 new planes, and has a security detail so large it has it's own zip code, but he needs it.  After all, those ears show up on Chinese satellites. 


It's not like his supporters have uniforms, or special status.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

crushing said:


> World leader with world appeal (so far).


 
Ioan needs to remember whose subject he is before he goes making random pledges to other passing world leaders :lol:.


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## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Look, there's no need to fear.  Just because he's got his own symbol, his own loyalty pledge, and there are statues and paintings of him going up all over the country, there's no proof that he's going to go the way all the other guys who had the same stuff did.
> 
> I mean, he did order the official torture center closed.  Would Sadamn have done that?
> Sure he got 3 new cars, and 2 new planes, and has a security detail so large it has it's own zip code, but he needs it.  After all, those ears show up on Chinese satellites.
> ...


Well he DID also freeze his staff's wages... maybe that's something.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Oh come on.   One little painting a dictator does not make.
> 
> I mean it's not like there's a bunch of statues of Obama out there showing him as divine.
> 
> Err....wait a minute...



I'd so make one of those as Obama as Mohammad, but then everyone would fling racist and Muslim hating comments at me.

I also heard a nice sound bite this morning of a newscaster calling some of the Nutbag republicans (Think: Rush etc) "bordering on treason" for not supporting Obama. 

Funny how that **** turned around when it wasn't the Democrats bashing a republican.   It was WRONG of them to accuse liberals of treason, but now the shoe is on the other foot.

Remember WAYYYYYYYYY back when... before all this election BS even started and I was arguing with Michaeledwards and I said this is exactly what was gonna happen when the Democrats won the next election.

NOTHING "Changes" the feces just stacks on the opposite side of the fence.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> It's not like his supporters have uniforms, or special status.



Yet...


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

crushing said:


> I was thinking the same thing and two sayings immediately come to mind:
> 
> The more things change, the more they stay the same.
> The king is dead, long live the king.


 

I was working my way around to posting that.  In all matters political it is so often true :tup:.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

Honestly, in the end, I'll keep on doing what I do, saying what I say, etc, and they can have my sword when they pry it from my dead hand.


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## tellner (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac, this was just the kind of thing that conservatives did for your beloved Shrubus Minimus. But with them it wasn't just a dumb publicity stunt. Clear Channel put up billboards of Chimpy saying "Our Leader". And Justice Department hires were forced to explain why they wanted to personally serve and why they were personally loyal to him.

This isn't "motes and beams" this is "motes and big frickin' lumber yards". 

You really do want to leave this one alone.


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## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

Whilst you may have a point with regard to the fact that it seems American leaders go in for a bit of 'Imperial Reinforcement', it is probably best not to refer to the recently departed in such perjorative terms.

You are well aware, I'm sure, of the inflammatory effect that such speach will have due to your past experience of the consequences of same.

You don't have to love the fellow nor any of his 'works' but such defammatory remarks do yourself no credit.


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## Cryozombie (Jan 23, 2009)

tellner said:


> sgtmac, this was just the kind of thing that conservatives did for your beloved Shrubus Minimus. But with them it wasn't just a dumb publicity stunt. Clear Channel put up billboards of Chimpy saying "Our Leader". And Justice Department hires were forced to explain why they wanted to personally serve and why they were personally loyal to him.
> 
> This isn't "motes and beams" this is "motes and big frickin' lumber yards".
> 
> You really do want to leave this one alone.



Hey Tellner, If it's ok to insult these guys, you won't mind much If I refer to them as Chimpy and the Black Man will you?

Sounds like a good comedy central show.


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## crushing (Jan 23, 2009)

tellner said:


> sgtmac, this was just the kind of thing that conservatives did for your beloved Shrubus Minimus. But with them it wasn't just a dumb publicity stunt. Clear Channel put up billboards of Chimpy saying "Our Leader". And Justice Department hires were forced to explain why they wanted to personally serve and why they were personally loyal to him.
> 
> This isn't "motes and beams" this is "motes and big frickin' lumber yards".
> 
> You really do want to leave this one alone.


 
You may want to clarify, because this gives the appearance of defending behavior now that you didn't appreciate previously.  There seems to be a lot of that going on the last few days.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2009)

It's good that people are wary.  Obama wants to create a vast civilian corp for "community service" that is dedicated to him/our nation.  I see this video as part of that effort.  Yet, it's pretty easy for something like to this slip over the edge and become a new brown shirt brigade.  

The thing that people need to remember is that Fascism is a gutter movement.  It starts with disaffected young people banding behind a "leader" who says the right vacuous phrases.  Then it takes on a life of its own and the oppression/persecution appears.  That's the danger here.  When this mass gets moving, if you disagree, it will roll right over you...and eventually roll right over democracy.

Watch carefully.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> The whole "rally behind the president" isn't new, in fact it was practically demanded by the republican right, especially when we went to war.  "We need to get behind our president and support him in this!" I heard ringing ... oh hell, even right on these forums.  And to read that folks throw up at doing so for Obama, well, that's just stupid partyism and doesn't even deserve addressing anymore.


 This isn't RALLYING behind the President, it's WORSHIPPING THE PRESIDENT!



> _"Government_, even in its _best_ state, is but _a necessary evil_; in its worst state, an intolerable one." -Thomas Paine



Fear of government worship isn't 'Partyism'......it's INTELLIGENT!

Find me ONE SINGULAR EXAMPLE of any PREVIOUS PRESIDENT WITH THIS KIND OF WORSHIP!  Go on, i'll wait.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

tellner said:


> sgtmac, this was just the kind of thing that conservatives did for your beloved Shrubus Minimus. But with them it wasn't just a dumb publicity stunt. Clear Channel put up billboards of Chimpy saying "Our Leader". And Justice Department hires were forced to explain why they wanted to personally serve and why they were personally loyal to him.
> 
> This isn't "motes and beams" this is "motes and big frickin' lumber yards".


 PURE UNADULTERATED BS!  And even you know it!  NOBODY put huge MURALS of 'Shrub' ANYWHERE!  Quit playing that silly game, when you know it's not even true.

It's actually YOU who's playing the 'Partyism' game as Shesula calls it, assuming anyone who DISAGREES with the new God Obama, MUST support 'Bush'......it really don't work that way. 

Have your petty tin-pot messiah if you want, but don't pretend everyone else wants to worship one too, just to make yourself feel better.



tellner said:


> You really do want to leave this one alone.


 Or what, you're going to report me to the new Obama National Security Volunteers and i'm going to end up replacing the Islamic terrorists in GITMO? 

Call Obama's Tonton-Macoute, I DARE YOU!


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

crushing said:


> I was thinking the same thing and two sayings immediately come to mind:
> 
> The more things change, the more they stay the same.
> The king is dead, long live the king.


 Then I challenge you to find such a worshipped president even BEFORE they took office....i'll wait.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

MA-Caver said:


> Hmm, I wonder when it will be a requirement to memorize the birthdates of Obama and Biden?


 You mean it's not already?


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Look, there's no need to fear.  Just because he's got his own symbol, his own loyalty pledge, and there are statues and paintings of him going up all over the country, there's no proof that he's going to go the way all the other guys who had the same stuff did.
> 
> I mean, he did order the official torture center closed.  Would Sadamn have done that?
> Sure he got 3 new cars, and 2 new planes, and has a security detail so large it has it's own zip code, but he needs it.  After all, those ears show up on Chinese satellites.
> ...


 Oh yes, quite right!

The party line response to any questioning of the 'SUPREME LEADER' will be 

1) 'You're just afraid of change'
and
2) 'You're all just 'Shrub' supporters unhappy we have our own GOD now'

That pretty much sums it up.......so much for 'DISSENT IS PATRIOTISM'. 

uniforms and special status......


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Find me ONE SINGULAR EXAMPLE of any PREVIOUS PRESIDENT WITH THIS KIND OF WORSHIP! Go on, i'll wait.


 

The Gipper, of course-Republicants  still worship him.

"Ender of the Cold War," "Great Communicator,"

_Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall._


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> The Gipper, of course-Republicants  still worship him.
> 
> "Ender of the Cold War," "Great Communicator,"
> 
> _Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall._


 The 'Gipper' is not currently president, nor was he at the time of that painting. 

Have you read what I said?  LEADERS SHOULD NEVER BE WORSHIPPED IN OFFICE!!!!



sgtmac_46 said:


> As I said, leaders deserve to be idolized IN HINDSIGHT only....usually after they are dead and gone.....never while they hold the reins of power if we wish to remain a free people.
> 
> And MOST certainly, never as mere fabrication constructed by a machine FOR WORSHIP!




Now SURELY you know, because you're a smart guy, the difference between ADMIRING past leaders, and BUILDING MONUMENTS TO CURRENT ONES!


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## elder999 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Now SURELY you know, because you're a smart guy, the difference between ADMIRING past leaders, and BUILDING MONUMENTS TO CURRENT ONES!


 

Aw, I'se just funnin'.....:lfao:


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

elder999 said:


> Aw, I'se just funnin'.....:lfao:


 I knew you were smarter than that.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2009)

This thread needs to cool down, because we haven't seen where this will lead yet.  The worshipping crowds might die down, especially when Obama starts making decisions that no one is going to like.  On the hand, it might not.

This civilian service corp could be a good thing.  It could be something that acts like the old CCC.  On the other hand, it could be another brown shirt movement.  I think we need to be legitimately concerned about the latter.  This financial crisis could really get out of control and "good intentions" could get out of hand quickly.  

It's interesting when you study Mussolini in Italy.  He started with the same kind of populist rhetoric that we hear with Obama, but as the movement grew, he changed his tone to a more nationalistic fascist in response.  Of course the conspiracy is that he did all of that on purpose.  Obama is no Mussolini, but then again, we live in different times.

Anyway, I'd like to see some documents on the intentions behind this movement.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

I PLEDGE MY ETERNAL OPPOSITION TO THE CULT OF OBAMA AND IT'S SOCIALIST AND ANTI-AMERICAN POLICIES!

My bet is that Obama utilizes a loose and unaccountably informal apparatus, ala Chavez and his army of thugs, in the near future.....MY PREDICTION!



> Reporting from Washington -- As Barack Obama builds his administration and prepares to take office next week, his political team is quietly planning for a nationwide hiring binge that would marshal an army of full-time organizers to press the new president's agenda and lay the foundation for his reelection.
> 
> The organization, known internally as "Barack Obama 2.0," is being designed to sustain a grass-roots network of millions that was mobilized last year to elect Obama and now is widely considered the country's most potent political machine.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-army14-2009jan14,0,1539654.story


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

Actually, the thread needs to cool down before a few more folks find they've lost study access.....

Debate is fine, passion is fine, but cool the heat please.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

Quite so (not that the Cap'n needs my tuppence worth ). 

If I could just add what might seem a petty and old fashioned (in Net terms) point to that, it'd be pleasant for a little less 'shouting' to be in evidence. 

There are other means of conveying emphasis and focus in a sentence and to old gimmers like me, strings of capitals is as intrinsically rude as textese.


----------



## RandomPhantom700 (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Then I challenge you to find such a worshipped president even BEFORE they took office....i'll wait.
> 
> Have you read what I said? LEADERS SHOULD NEVER BE WORSHIPPED IN OFFICE!!!!


 
So, before office, while in office, either or both?  Pick one.  

Summarily, yes, there is some Obama-mania going on right now, and people are celebrating the guy before his first 100 days.  No, it hasn't gotten anywhere NEAR the point of "agree with him or be cast aside!" If you'd like examples of the latter, perhaps we should consider the free-speech zones enforced during Dubya's presidency...


----------



## Carol (Jan 23, 2009)

:uhyeah:


----------



## MA-Caver (Jan 23, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> :uhyeah:


Thanks for the nightmares Carol.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> http://www.myspace.com/presidentialpledge
> 
> You are mistaken on that one.




From the MySpace link:



> 2009 promises to be a historical and exciting year filled with lots of hope, change and community service. To encourage ever greater levels of service throughout the country, MySpace and Katalyst Media, a production company co-founded by Ashton Kutcher and Jason Goldberg, teamed up with celebrities to record their personal pledges of service. The moving pledges illustrate how they will help make the nationwide change, inspired by President-*elect* Barack Obama, a reality. Directed by Demi Moore, the videos will be presented to President-elect Barack Obama during the inauguration festivities.



Based on my readings so far, this seems to be Ashton's project, not something asked-for by the President himself.

The video itself, I think, is really silly. Pledging 'to be a servant' of Obama is over the top and not something that President Obama would likely promote. I didn't know who many of the celebs were, which is a sign of my age. I think this video appeals to an under-thirty demographic of devout non-readers.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Jan 23, 2009)

Actually it is a pretty cool video except for a few parts of it.  They are trying to get people out to do *good things*.  What is wrong with that?


----------



## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Actually it is a pretty cool video except for a few parts of it.  They are trying to get people out to do *good things*.  What is wrong with that?



Nothing is wrong with that.  As long as it stays that way, it could be a great thing.  I think one of the problems is that people feel so damn cynical regarding politics that its hard for them to see anything good actually coming out of Washington DC.  I, for one, am feeling that way, but I am going to try and be positive and hope that something good will happen.  However, the wariness isn't going to go away anytime soon.


----------



## Andy Moynihan (Jan 23, 2009)

Hope is the denial of reality.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 23, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Actually it is a pretty cool video except for a few parts of it.  They are trying to get people out to do *good things*.  What is wrong with that?



Quite right. When I said it was "silly," I was reacting to the "servant" comment. It's a bit flippant and potentially distracts from the message, in addition to creating some headaches for the President.

The celebrity roster is notably absent of personalities with a long track record of activism: Martin Sheen, Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, Susan Sarandon, etc. It's meant to be young and hip.

Someone made a "brown shirt" reference. I don't see that. The message here is, essentially. _We need to get off our arses and make the change we want,_ not _Remember the good old days_ and _It's somebody else's fault._

I think the Nazi stuff gets thrown around to easily. If some people are calling Bush a Nazi, and others are calling Obama the same, what exactly is a Nazi?


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

I can't speak for anyone else, clearly but I certainly remember what a Nazi is. 

Many of our current generations of political leaders are somewhat of a similar mind in some ways when it comes to social control and manipulation but they're much more clever at hiding what they're up to behind 'cats paws'. Not quite so strong on total genocide as the 'Old School' but still not much improved when it comes to real attempts to solve difficult problems without killing lots of people.

As a 'quick effect' perjorative tho', the term is over-used without really considering what it truly means.


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Jan 23, 2009)

> As a 'quick effect' perjorative tho', the term is over-used without really considering what it truly means.
> __________________



Even academics don't agree on what is a nazi.  Some would say the populist Democrats are, and others lean towards more to the right wing.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

They don't?  That's a puzzle.  It's a very specific, historically unambiguous, term after all.


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Hope is the denial of reality.



Mmmm ... no, that's what some would call "false hope."  Hope is the belief in possibility.  Lack of it is to deny miracles, and any decent scientist will tell you there is A LOT than can not be explained fully, that medical miracles are made every day and that hope is more than just a stone's throw away from faith.

:asian:


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

I have a question for our non-American members here.

Do you erect statues and paint walls with the image of your leader?
Do your leaders have special logos that they use?
Do their supporters wear special uniforms, or matching shirts?
Do they do rallys where thousands cheer?
Do they create vast workforces of loyal supporters?

The reason I ask is because the only sources I have, that indicate a leader doing that/having that happen are these:

- Adolph Hitler - Germany 1930's-40's
- Benito Mussolini - Italy 1920's-40's
- Joseph Stalin - USSR - 1900-50's
- Fidel Castro - Cuba - 1960's-2000's
- Saddam Hussein - Iraq - 1970's-2000's

I know there's a few US presidents who were popular, had some statues done, a few paintings (Reagan, Kennedy come to mind), but none fill all the "Tator Check List" like Obama seems to, so I'm wondering how nuts you folks get with your leaders, to put this into perspective.

Thanks.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 23, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:
			
		

> If some people are calling Bush a Nazi, and others are calling Obama the same, what exactly is a Nazi?



Suke and Jeff,
Understood and agreed.



Sukerkin said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, clearly but I certainly remember what a Nazi is.



I have a pretty good picture of what a Nazi is. You both understand I was speaking rhetorically. The "'quick effect' perjorative" is precisely what I am speaking of.


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

Is there an Obama uniform??


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> This thread needs to cool down, because we haven't seen where this will lead yet.  The worshipping crowds might die down, especially when Obama starts making decisions that no one is going to like.  On the hand, it might not.
> 
> This civilian service corp could be a good thing.  It could be something that acts like the old CCC.  On the other hand, it could be another brown shirt movement.  I think we need to be legitimately concerned about the latter.  This financial crisis could really get out of control and "good intentions" could get out of hand quickly.
> 
> ...



The questions need to be asked (and the fawning media doesn't seem interested in asking them) and some HEALTHY SKEPTICISM is called for, as you point out.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

(In answer to post#76)We just don't go in for that sort of thing over here, Cap'n. 

Yes, we have statutes here and there of Prime Ministers of 'note' who are now safey gone beyond the reach of the 'cult of celebrity' but that's about it.

A while ago, a Labour government (under the unjustly-never-to-hold power Neil Kinnock) tried an American style political rally during an election ... 'we' hated it and it almost on it's own lost Labour the election. That mistake has never been repeated, tho' we have noted our politico's getting slicker and squirmier when questioned in the media rather than saying (or at least honestly lying about) what they stand for.

I keep going on about it but the Queen is our head of state, not some self-serving politician. The PM might run things but his title gives it away. He's the chief minister of the government who answers to the Crown. We get 'proper' pomp and circumstance' from Mrs Queen, thank you very much. Jumped-up 'Wannabe Rulers' had just better behave themselves and be quiet.

One of the big popularity losers for Blair actually was that he was getting delusions of 'Presidential' authority - nothing has been officially commented on in this regard but ... well we as a people certainly didn't like it and I can't imagine Her Majesty was particularly enamoured of it either.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

RandomPhantom700 said:


> So, before office, while in office, either or both?  Pick one.
> 
> Summarily, yes, there is some Obama-mania going on right now, and people are celebrating the guy before his first 100 days.  No, it hasn't gotten anywhere NEAR the point of "agree with him or be cast aside!" If you'd like examples of the latter, perhaps we should consider the free-speech zones enforced during Dubya's presidency...


Monuments to DEAD PAST LEADERS are not remotely the same as building monuments to current live ones....surely you understand that, right?  I've already picked 'one' and i've already made it clear....don't act as if i'm the wanting it both ways, when i've made it perfectly clear what my position is.....it's not a Republican or Democrat issue, it's a messianic complex issue, and no amount of Posthumous Reagan worship is comparable to deifying a current President!

And are you referring to the kind of 'free-speech' zones around the Democratic National Convention in Colorado?


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Is there an Obama uniform??


Black shirt, and his little "Pepsi" logo on it.  Someone today thought the school shirt I was wearing was one, until they got closer. Exact words "Oh, I thought you had an Obama shirt on, sorry."


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> From the MySpace link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You'd have a point......if this were an isolated incident.....this kind of mindless worship of a living leader,though, is endemic among the left!





http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02c_1224641941





It takes a village to create a despot!


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

Now that is a little scary, Cap'n (response to post #82).

EDIT: Now come on, *Mac*, you're not being fair here. I've had to put up with Republican idolatory of Bush-the-Saviour-of-the Free-World and it's concomitant Democrat criticisms since I joined here. Don't make me now have to endure the reverse of that.


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I have a question for our non-American members here.
> 
> Do you erect statues and paint walls with the image of your leader?


You mean this guy? Hell, no.






Although, this guy was pretty popular.







> Do your leaders have special logos that they use?


Like this?










Or this?







> Do their supporters wear special uniforms, or matching shirts?


No, but their shirts usually match their ties.



> Do they do rallys where thousands cheer?


No, we hold rallies where we scream at them. But what's wrong when a leader can hold a rally where people cheer of their own free will?



> Do they create vast workforces of loyal supporters?


Like this?


----------



## SFC JeffJ (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, clearly but I certainly remember what a Nazi is.
> 
> Many of our current generations of political leaders are somewhat of a similar mind in some ways when it comes to social control and manipulation but they're much more clever at hiding what they're up to behind 'cats paws'. Not quite so strong on total genocide as the 'Old School' but still not much improved when it comes to real attempts to solve difficult problems without killing lots of people.
> 
> As a 'quick effect' perjorative tho', the term is over-used without really considering what it truly means.


Sorry about that.  For some reason my mind was thinking fascist, not Nazi.


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

I reckoned that's what your intent was, *Jeff*, I just didn't want to presume and put words in your mouth :tup:.


----------



## Makalakumu (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> The questions need to be asked (and the fawning media doesn't seem interested in asking them) and some HEALTHY SKEPTICISM is called for, as you point out.


 
Also, I think we need to FORCE some optimism into our personal intentions toward this matter.  The whole democrat/republican thing doesn't mean much to me anymore.  I'm on an eight year political hangover and I'm sick of the whole damn thing.  That said, if one of these programs gets going in my area and it looks like its doing good work, I'm going to get involved.  

Ah, to be that young idealistic boy scout again...

There is some serious work that could be done by this program.  On the other hand, there is some sinister work that could be done with this program.  What kind of work?  Hielige Shiesse!  You gotta make up your own mind in regards to certain things.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> Nothing is wrong with that.  As long as it stays that way, it could be a great thing.  I think one of the problems is that people feel so damn cynical regarding politics that its hard for them to see anything good actually coming out of Washington DC.  I, for one, am feeling that way, but I am going to try and be positive and hope that something good will happen.  However, the wariness isn't going to go away anytime soon.



It'd be GREAT if it all wasn't entirely pre-text for the meat of the whole video......one doesn't need to be an expert in propaganda to spot the blatant point of the whole thing.....which is 'OBAMA', this is what OBAMA is making us do, it's OBAMA we have to thank.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Gordon Nore said:


> Quite right. When I said it was "silly," I was reacting to the "servant" comment. It's a bit flippant and potentially distracts from the message, in addition to creating some headaches for the President.
> 
> The celebrity roster is notably absent of personalities with a long track record of activism: Martin Sheen, Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, Susan Sarandon, etc. It's meant to be young and hip.
> 
> ...



Obama is not a Nazi.....far from it.....if Obama has a historical predecessor it's Papa Doc Duvalier, the former Popularly elected, black nationalist left-leaning Populist President of Haiti, who also founded his own National Security Volunteers (NSV).......informally referred to as the Tonton-Macoute......and set about bringing 'hope and change' to his country for several decades.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I have a question for our non-American members here.
> 
> Do you erect statues and paint walls with the image of your leader?
> Do your leaders have special logos that they use?
> ...


 Of your list, Stalin and Castro are the closest.....with Castro probably being closer still........but if one wants to find a true ideological parallel, the names Duvalier, Chavez and Mugabe should come to mind.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> (In answer to post#76)We just don't go in for that sort of thing over here, Cap'n.
> 
> Yes, we have statutes here and there of Prime Ministers of 'note' who are now safey gone beyond the reach of the 'cult of celebrity' but that's about it.


 And quite rightly so......we should NEVER truly trust or adore too much living rulers........dead ones and those retired too old to do any harm it's perfectly fine to make murals of. 

Living demi-gods scare the **** out of me!


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> Now that is a little scary, Cap'n (response to post #82).
> 
> EDIT: Now come on, *Mac*, you're not being fair here. I've had to put up with Republican idolatory of Bush-the-Saviour-of-the Free-World and it's concomitant Democrat criticisms since I joined here. Don't make me now have to endure the reverse of that.



Now, Sukerkin.....saying Bush did this or that right is NOT REMOTELY idolatory......there are no 'Bush worshippers'.....there are those who agreed with his policies and think he's personally a decent human being.

.....here's what we can say of Bush.......he was criticized for believing in a living god......now those same folks who ridiculed and despised him have elected a living god!


----------



## Gordon Nore (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Obama is not a Nazi.....far from it.....if Obama has a historical predecessor it's Papa Doc Duvalier, the former Popularly elected, black nationalist left-leaning Populist President of Haiti, who also founded his own National Security Volunteers (NSV).......informally referred to as the Tonton-Macoute......and set about bringing 'hope and change' to his country for several decades.



:BSmeter:You get the point.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

For the record, I don't care for Obama any more than I cared for Bush. I see Bush/Cheney (and McCain-Palin) as the Fascist party, and Obama as the Socialist Puppet.  Regardless, I think the nation as a whole is ****ed. I'm however looking forward to being able to drive a "Peoples Car" on the "Peoples Road" to get my "People Chow" while living in my "Public Housing" after getting off the job at the "Public Works", maybe stopping by the "Peoples Doctor" to have my testicles laminated.

I just wonder what the "Peoples Champion" thinks of all this.  Where is "The Rock" when you need him? :rofl:

Sorry, I view this all through eyes well jaded right now. Obamamania is running wild, and whatchu gonna do when his mighty presidential arms come for you? WHooo!

:lol:


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> For the record, I don't care for Obama any more than I cared for Bush. I see Bush/Cheney (and McCain-Palin) as the Fascist party, and Obama as the Socialist Puppet.  Regardless, I think the nation as a whole is ****ed. I'm however looking forward to being able to drive a "Peoples Car" on the "Peoples Road" to get my "People Chow" while living in my "Public Housing" after getting off the job at the "Public Works", maybe stopping by the "Peoples Doctor" to have my testicles laminated.
> 
> I just wonder what the "Peoples Champion" thinks of all this.  Where is "The Rock" when you need him? :rofl:
> 
> ...


 'Oh yeeeaaaaah!' :rofl:

You're right, it's become a game of 'My statist candidate is less evil than your statist candidate' and at the end of the day, they are becoming more and more of the same.....the only difference between McCain and Hillary Clinton was the pant-suit.

Obama, for his part, carries that extra little something of creepy messianic about him, though.......seriously, Obama supporters are starting to act like Tom Cruise talking about L. Ron Hubbard!


----------



## searcher (Jan 23, 2009)

I just watched the video and I almost got sick.   This is exactly how the socialist party starts its takeover of the US.

I took my oath to protect this country from all enemies foreign and domestic.   I wish they would have included _The Republik of Kalifornia_.   Here we go kids.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

searcher said:


> I just watched the video and I almost got sick.   This is exactly how the socialist party starts its takeover of the US.
> 
> I took my oath to protect this country from all enemies foreign and domestic.   I wish they would have included _The Republik of Kalifornia_.   Here we go kids.



That video looked like the kind of video Evangelical Christians teenagers make.....'I pledge to Jesus......'

Something those same leftists ridicule......and now those same folks are trying to create a living object of worship!  Oh the irony.


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 23, 2009)

So, what about this?

Or this?

I really think this one is poignant.

Or this?

How about this statuette for your Right Wing Shrine?

OH YEAH! What about that "New World Order" that had the Republican right all stiff and damp but petrified Holocaust survivors and their youngsters?

*Still waiting to see the uniforms lining everyone up for the Soylent Green, y'all.*


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> So, what about this?


 A campaign t-shirt?



shesulsa said:


> Or this?


 Actually an anti-Bush t-shirt. 

You see 'Deploy Bush' means send Bush to war.....get it. 



shesulsa said:


> I really think this one is poignant.


 Another anti-Bush t-shirt. 



shesulsa said:


> Or this?


 'Go Bush'....yep, you found some parity there. 



shesulsa said:


> How about this statuette for your Right Wing Shrine?


 A small desktop bronze bust.....that's it?



shesulsa said:


> OH YEAH! What about that "New World Order" that had the Republican right all stiff and damp but petrified Holocaust survivors and their youngsters?


 Has absolutely nothing to do with Bush or Obama worship.

But for the record, i'll explain it....the NWO statement was made by Bush Sr.....and ANGERED Republicans and Conservatives......many still consider it the worst thing ever uttered by Bush Sr.  Claim you're from the NWO in some parts of the south and west and there's likely to be shooting. 



shesulsa said:


> *Still waiting to see the uniforms lining everyone up for the Soylent Green, y'all.*


 He's only been in office less than a week......give him time!


Seriously, shesula......with all due respect, you've probably been looking all afternoon...and this stuff is the best examples of Bush worship you could come up with?  A campaign t-shirt, two anti-Bush t-shirts, a 'Go Bush' t-shirt, a cheap bronze (probably plastic) bust, and the NWO?!


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

You know, *Mac*, I think you hit on why it was so subliminaly unsettling for me to watch. 

It was just that feeling. Good words being expressed but this almost indefinable voluntary surrender of decision-making to a 'higher power'.

I have to say, I'm happy, for now, that Bush has gone from the seat where he got to decide which corporate interest to support with the American military. Whether I'll actually be any happier once your new figurehead gets going I can't say.

As Star Trekkin (awful song) once proclaimed so resonantly of present day geo-politic: "We come in peace, shoot to kill"

That's nothing I dare hope will change any time soon, sad to say.


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jan 23, 2009)

My favorite was this one : http://bushworldtour.com/
They're sold out though, sorry.  


See, here's the rub.  I actually like the guy. Some of what he's done, I actually like.  But, his "kool aid fans" are the ones that scare me. It's like Christianity. I've got no problem with it, but "dear god save me from your followers" has been muttered by me more than once.  Obama the man, I've got no problem with.  It's this "Obama as Mesiah" thing, that concerns me.

My only hope is that I'm in Vermont or Texas, or visiting Canada when it all goes down hill. *shrug*   

Personally, I think it's all screwed.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> You know, *Mac*, I think you hit on why it was so subliminaly unsettling for me to watch.
> 
> It was just that feeling. Good words being expressed but this almost indefinable voluntary surrender of decision-making to a 'higher power'.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I think many folks are still so blinded by Bush hatred that they really can't see what should be obvious......this stuff is NUTTY!  I hope some time and distance from Bush's administration allows some folks to wake up!

When I bring it up, the knee-jerk response from so many folks is to automatically revert to attacking Bush......which has absolutely nothing to do with it!  Bush is back in Crawford, and is no longer of any power or ability to harm anyone.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> My favorite was this one : http://bushworldtour.com/
> They're sold out though, sorry.
> 
> 
> ...


 I fear you may be right.......


----------



## Sukerkin (Jan 23, 2009)

I do have to say that one thing I am sure of about the American people is your rugged individualism has to get compressed pretty hard before a great many of you smell a Snake Oil Salesman and won't shout about it.

I really do think that appeals to 'patriotism' and creation of overly-bloated threats to national security are what kept you chaps so aquiescent during what is now the outgoing presidency. Otherwise I have no doubt you'd've been screaming blue murder about 'foreign entanglements' and the 'national debt'.

That's my round about way of saying that I was coming on too strong with my Bush-the-Saviour phrasing earlier .


----------



## CoryKS (Jan 23, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> :uhyeah:


 

GWB: "I was born a poor black child..."


----------



## Marginal (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I do have to say that one thing I am sure of about the American people is your rugged individualism has to get compressed pretty hard before a great many of you smell a Snake Oil Salesman and won't shout about it.
> 
> I really do think that appeals to 'patriotism' and creation of overly-bloated threats to national security are what kept you chaps so aquiescent during what is now the outgoing presidency. Otherwise I have no doubt you'd've been screaming blue murder about 'foreign entanglements' and the 'national debt'.


That was mass hysteria.


----------



## jarrod (Jan 23, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I do have to say that one thing I am sure of about the American people is your rugged individualism has to get compressed pretty hard before a great many of you smell a Snake Oil Salesman and won't shout about it.
> 
> I really do think that appeals to 'patriotism' and creation of overly-bloated threats to national security are what kept you chaps so aquiescent during what is now the outgoing presidency. Otherwise I have no doubt you'd've been screaming blue murder about 'foreign entanglements' and the 'national debt'.
> 
> That's my round about way of saying that I was coming on too strong with my Bush-the-Saviour phrasing earlier .


 
man i really, really, really, really...really hope you're right.  

jf


----------



## shesulsa (Jan 24, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> Seriously, shesula......with all due respect, you've probably been looking all afternoon...and this stuff is the best examples of Bush worship you could come up with?  A campaign t-shirt, two anti-Bush t-shirts, a 'Go Bush' t-shirt, a cheap bronze (probably plastic) bust, and the NWO?!



Nope, not looking long at all.  Point is that the point is moot ... because it's been done before.  And I'm wasting my time talking to you because Obama is E. Ville and we should all be afraid.  Sure there are lemmings for him ... and there were lemmings for Bush ... and McCain ... and Nailin' - er, PALIN (sorry) - but that's just not the same thing now, is it?

Do I think people assign messianic qualities to people who don't deserve it? All the time.  What portion of the video you posted in your first post was even close to that?  Mmm ... probably 10%.  Too high, yet I'm not sold on the entire content being credited to worship status.

Again ... people are inspired.  They are focused on doing what they should have been doing all along.  That's not a bad thing.  Crediting Obama for it all, now THAT'S a bad thing.  Seriously, we could have elected Elmo as president if he'd ran against McCain following the Dubya legacy.  Then we'd all be "worshipping" red, furry, loud, hyperactive monsters.


----------



## sgtmac_46 (Jan 24, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Nope, not looking long at all.  Point is that the point is moot ... because it's been done before.  And I'm wasting my time talking to you because Obama is E. Ville and we should all be afraid.  Sure there are lemmings for him ... and there were lemmings for Bush ... and McCain ... and Nailin' - er, PALIN (sorry) - but that's just not the same thing now, is it?
> 
> Do I think people assign messianic qualities to people who don't deserve it? All the time.  What portion of the video you posted in your first post was even close to that?  Mmm ... probably 10%.  Too high, yet I'm not sold on the entire content being credited to worship status.
> 
> Again ... people are inspired.  They are focused on doing what they should have been doing all along.  That's not a bad thing.  Crediting Obama for it all, now THAT'S a bad thing.  Seriously, we could have elected Elmo as president if he'd ran against McCain following the Dubya legacy.  Then we'd all be "worshipping" red, furry, loud, hyperactive monsters.



Again, you have found not one single trace of any parity to Obama worship anywhere else in American presidential history....not with 'Dubya', not with Reagan (posthumous worship is hardly the same....dead Presidents are safely worshipped), not anywhere

The Cult of Obama should scare anyone not blinded by Bush hatred (which seems to be the retort when Obama worship is brought up 'oh yeah well Bush....'....and as it goes on folks will start to wake up to the fact that some of their neighbors have been kidnapped and switched with pod people.

Nobody worshipped at the alter of 'Dubya'.....folks made fun of the fact that Bush actually credited the worship of a higher power himself......but there is an alter of Obama, and many folks speak of HIM as the 'higher power'.

......and the SCARIEST THING is that the News Media, who should be Skeptical and Cynical of every leader, are at the CENTER of the Obama worship.




My apologies if i'm a little too iconoclastic to be 'Obama cool'.....but i'm agnostic, I don't believe in messiahs, even really cool, clean and articulte 'hip' ones....and socialist messiahs especially don't inspire me......it's the cross some of us have to bear.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 24, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> I do have to say that one thing I am sure of about the American people is your rugged individualism has to get compressed pretty hard before a great many of you smell a Snake Oil Salesman and won't shout about it.
> 
> I really do think that appeals to 'patriotism' and creation of overly-bloated threats to national security are what kept you chaps so aquiescent during what is now the outgoing presidency. Otherwise I have no doubt you'd've been screaming blue murder about 'foreign entanglements' and the 'national debt'.
> 
> That's my round about way of saying that I was coming on too strong with my Bush-the-Saviour phrasing earlier .



I hope you're right abut the rugged individualism........I had to make a tough choice in voting for McCain (the lessor of two evils given the choice in my humble opinion) and Bob Barr.......the next election the Republicans are on their own........perhaps the Libertarian platform can finally get some traction.

http://www.lp.org/introduction/what-is-the-libertarian-party
http://www.lp.org/issues


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## elder999 (Jan 24, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> .......the next election the Republicans are on their own........p


 
What makes you so sure there'll be a "next election?" :lol:


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## terryl965 (Jan 24, 2009)

Can't we all just get along, by the way I am moving to Mexico the land of the free and the home of te brave.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








:uhyeah:


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## MA-Caver (Jan 24, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Can't we all just get along, by the way I am moving to Mexico the land of the free and the home of te brave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Make room Terry, Mexico has lots of great caves and DEEP pits ... I'll join you in a bit.


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## grydth (Jan 24, 2009)

Sorry folks - got the bat signal for a token Obama voter to show up on this thread.... but one daughter was pretesting last night for her first junior black belt, the other for advanced red belt.... a 3 hour affair including 6 rounds of sparring. Then one daughter had a run requirement this morning. Both passed, I am very proud, but sorry to be late.

Now after 114 posts so far on this thread, I have a lawyer's tactic for you. It is called moving for Summary Judgment. Here's how it works: I agree to every criticism you have levied against the sheeple on the video, stipulate to them all. Then I tell the judge - here, you gentle readers - that it makes no difference at all when it come to Barack Obama, the President.

It is simply silly to imagine one can hold a leader, any leader, responsible for every nut or extremist or crazed true believer that decides he's the new Fuhrer. In a country of hundreds of millions, it is inevitable that any person of national stature will attract followers both sane and nutty, sensible and sheeple, thinking and brain dead. How convenient, if one wants to tear a man down, to point to the worst of their adherents.... and paint those flaws across all his supporters and the man himself. Without any evidence, of course.

Nice work if you can get it. Until I'm banned, though, you can't.

Worshiping a man who's been in office only 4 days? Why, that's just as silly as condemning a man who's only been in office 4 days!

Honestly, I am concerned at the threads that have grown legs here lately. A botched oath? That's fodder for a bloopers show.... period. There are serious issues, debatable issues.....Gitmo closing, yet another bail out pending, Iraq....... and a rational forum is instead 115 posts into trying to divine national meaning from something wacky by some wackos on YouTube!


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

Sukerkin said:


> You know, *Mac*, I think you hit on why it was so subliminaly unsettling for me to watch.
> 
> It was just that feeling. Good words being expressed but this almost indefinable voluntary surrender of decision-making to a 'higher power'.
> 
> ...


 

"Boldly going forward 'cause we can't find reverse", indeed.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> I'm on an eight year political hangover and I'm sick of the whole damn thing.


 
How do you think I feel, I'm on a SIXTEEN year bender and it shows no sign of stopping.



> Ah, to be that young idealistic boy scout again...
> 
> .


 
There's a REASON most idealists are of the age where they aren't grown up yet. Because idealism is for children.

You wanna be an optimist, you go ahead and be an optimist. I'LL be a realist.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Personally, I think it's all screwed.


 
Don't think. KNOW. Get everything squared away for you/your family as best you can and stay in Condition Yellow except when asleep until the happy times finally do come again, if they do.. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

shesulsa said:


> Mmmm ... no, that's what some would call "false hope." Hope is the belief in possibility. Lack of it is to deny miracles, and any decent scientist will tell you there is A LOT than can not be explained fully, that medical miracles are made every day and that hope is more than just a stone's throw away from faith.
> 
> :asian:


 

All miracles gratefully accepted at this point but I'm frankly not holding my breath.

[Conan flashback]"..........for no one in this world can you trust.....not men, not women, not beasts......*holds up sword* ....THIS you can trust".[/Conan flashback]


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

elder999 said:


> What makes you so sure there'll be a "next election?" :lol:


 
That would be funny if there wasn't a chance.

Oh, and I don't know how seriously you take such things( or yet, for that matter how far I do) but This Presidential term ends in December of 2012.


'm just sayin......


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## elder999 (Jan 24, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> Oh, and I don't know how seriously you take such things( or yet, for that matter how far I do) but This Presidential term ends in December of 2012......


 
Seriously enough that I'm taking a long planned vacation to Mexico with some close friends and realtives, getting on my boat, and fishing and sailing in the Pacific for the month........._*seriously*_.

I mean, it's the _best_ place to be, historically, should anything happen, and if anything doesn't, well-we get a really good vacation that everyone gets to kid me about for the rest of my life.....:lol:

I mean, laughing smiley aside, what made you think I was kidding?

......I'm just sayin'......:lol:


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## Cryozombie (Jan 24, 2009)

Obey - Conform - Consume

Obey - Conform - Consume

Obey...


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 24, 2009)

Maybe South Park was right though...anyone know the where abouts of the Hope Diamond?


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## Makalakumu (Jan 24, 2009)

Andy Moynihan said:


> How do you think I feel, I'm on a SIXTEEN year bender and it shows no sign of stopping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's different when you have children.  My daughter is a great artist and has a knack for science.  She tells me she wants to be a veterinarian.  If I had no hope for the future at all, this conversation would go as follows...

"Hi Daddy, I want to be a veterinarian."
"Sorry kid, we don't have that kind of future.  You best learn how to grow your own food and shoot straight.  Also, you should know how to kill man."

You know, in the silly mad max hypothetical scenarios that appear when I'm really staring hard at the deep dark pit, that kind of thinking makes sense.  But as soon as you look up and you see your children's expectations for a future, you can't help but attempt to work toward something positive. 

I've got plans in my left hand, I've got plans in my right hand.  I can live in both worlds.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 24, 2009)

grydth said:


> Now after 114 posts so far on this thread, I have a lawyer's tactic for you. It is called moving for Summary Judgment. Here's how it works: I agree to every criticism you have levied against the sheeple on the video, stipulate to them all. Then I tell the judge - here, you gentle readers - that it makes no difference at all when it come to Barack Obama, the President.



Your logic shimmers. Nothing has actually happened yet. A bunch of folks made some videos and posted them, which is really easy to do. So maybe we need an update to Dr Kings line -- Let's judge folks by their actions and not the content of the YouTube videos.



> It is simply silly to imagine one can hold a leader, any leader, responsible for every nut or extremist or crazed true believer that decides he's the new Fuhrer. In a country of hundreds of millions, it is inevitable that any person of national stature will attract followers both sane and nutty, sensible and sheeple, thinking and brain dead. How convenient, if one wants to tear a man down, to point to the worst of their adherents.... and paint those flaws across all his supporters and the man himself. Without any evidence, of course.



In the aftermath of 9/11, some Americans harassed those browner than themselves who were caught wearing turbans or beards. They weren't asked or instructed to do this by their President. They simply used his call for alertness as an excuse to do what they wanted to do or might have done anyway.



> Worshiping a man who's been in office only 4 days? Why, that's just as silly as condemning a man who's only been in office 4 days!



Right on the money. But just you wait, after the President gets his hundred days in office, he will be handed the blame for every disaster that's been chasing his heels as he sought and took office. 



> Honestly, I am concerned at the threads that have grown legs here lately. A botched oath? That's fodder for a bloopers show.... period. There are serious issues, debatable issues.....Gitmo closing, yet another bail out pending, Iraq....... and a rational forum is instead 115 posts into trying to divine national meaning from something wacky by some wackos on YouTube!



Amen. I'm off to make a pro-Grydth video now.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 24, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> It's different when you have children. My daughter is a great artist and has a knack for science. She tells me she wants to be a veterinarian. If I had no hope for the future at all, this conversation would go as follows...
> 
> "Hi Daddy, I want to be a veterinarian."
> "Sorry kid, we don't have that kind of future. You best learn how to grow your own food and shoot straight. Also, you should know how to kill man."
> ...


 

Well, obviously. You don't TELL an obviously mortally wounded comrade he's got no hope to survive. You do what you can for him, if/when you can, while you can. Same thing.


But........ I'll leave off my traditional comments on my opinion of the intelligence/wisdom/sense of people choosing to have children anymore and just say that, for your and your kids' sake I hope they get the chance for what they want, and you the chance to see it. That much, at least, we agree is the situation we hope for,, if not its likelihood.


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## crushing (Jan 24, 2009)

Not Obama worship.  At least I don't think it is. . .
:highfive:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ae73278a00/high-five-inauguration


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## Empty Hands (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm scared, somebody hold me!


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## Wild Bill (Jan 26, 2009)

Check this out. Should I put one on back order or wait until they hand them out for free in the tolerance camps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0978736842


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, at least the words are real ones.  Mr. Webster cried every time Dubya started talking, lol!


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 26, 2009)

Wild Bill said:


> Check this out. Should I put one on back order or wait until they hand them out for free in the tolerance camps.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0978736842



Apparently Pocket Obama is by "The Editors of History Company," which meant absolutely nothing to me, so I queried further...

http://www.historycompany.com/productdetails.php?p=128

I think this is the print equivalent to The Franklin Mint or those commemorative coins they sell on TV.


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## searcher (Jan 26, 2009)

Isn't that what Mein Kampf was?   I mean, didn't Hitler require its reaidng by the German populace?


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## Empty Hands (Jan 26, 2009)

searcher said:


> Isn't that what Mein Kampf was?   I mean, didn't Hitler require its reaidng by the German populace?



Yes, that's exactly what Mein Kampf was.  Nail.  Head.  You.  I just got my mandatory copy this morning, and my mandatory Obamestapo inspection tomorrow to make sure I'm reading it.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 26, 2009)

Mao's red book?


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## Empty Hands (Jan 26, 2009)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Mao's red book?



No.  Any comparison is specious, and calls into question the sanity of the person proposing it.  When the government starts making us buy it, then maybe the comparison has some merit.  Until then, it's freely offered on Amazon.com to anyone who may or may not want to buy it.

All this talk of Brownshirts, Papa Doc, Mao and Hitler really makes me wonder about the mental stability of some on this board.  You're practically soiling yourselves in fear and outrage, when basically nothing has been done and said at this point.  It looks like we have the reverse of "Bush Derangement Syndrome" brewing up in full force.  I was hoping we could avoid some of those pathologies this time around.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 26, 2009)

Mao had a red book.
Someone put together a Blue book of Obama quotes.
Haven't read either, don't intend to. Some of what I read about the latter seems to imply it's a parody or a joke item.
No worries on that here.

The uniforms, youth corp, pledge, logo, etc, that does concern me, as the only comparible's I've found are with acknowledged fascists and dictators. Again, I'm concerned, but not enough to print fliers and organize a march.  I have no intent to pledge allegiance to him, to wear nor display his symbol, nor join his "koolaid level" supporters.

My objections to the socialistic nature of some of his intended ideas has been established well back into last year, as is my objections to Mrs. Clinton and her agenda's.  I've also logged a good number of objections towards his main opponent in the previous election.

His intent to roll back Bush's secrecy in government, to expand the FOIA access, and his encouragement of openness, I welcome.  

I question the comparison of him to FDR and his being our economic savior, given evidence that FDR delayed GD recovery by 7-11 years. I question his thoroughness in reviewing and understanding legislature, given his support an endorsement on a flawed bailout bill that left the idea of "accountability" off before being hurriedly passed. 

I am happy to see him working towards a more open, welcoming and friendly administration, compared to the past several. His homosexual friendly motions, his attempts to include as many different groups and positions in his inauguration, and yes, his "highest priced US party", all give me hope for his administration.

Yet I'm still concerned by other items I read about, still more than a bit worried about a possible transition to an "American-Socialist" state, etc.

Unlike many, I'm not ready to crucify him, and haven't reached for the nails and hammer yet, unlike those who seek to portray him as the Resurrected Nailed God, or the Great Parter of Seas and Wander of Deserts.

Some of what I've said here, was tongue in cheek, some serious, all mixed.  I do think the countries FUBAR, but, I haven't applied for Canadian citizenship yet, nor do I intend to. Hopefully, this shed at least my position in a clearer light, and is a more balanced and less "Oh ****, Bob's wearing a tinfoil hat again, what a looney!" picture.





Though, you run 3 forums, and admin 3 more and try and stay sane. It ain't easy!


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## shesulsa (Jan 27, 2009)

Ya know, I didn't hear this bellyaching when "dittoheads" were popular.  Talk about a lot of Kool-Aid drinking floor worshipers, these peeps slurped up journalistic crap (admitted by the RotUnd one Him Self) like it was Jamba Juice.

Then there's the Chicken Soup books by a conservative Christian writer.  And the little book containing right wing vernacular, power words with instructions on how to argue the conservative point against the Evil Liberal Machine that is all that isn't them.

Puh-lease.

Spare me the "uh... uh ... uh" imitation of Obama's occasional stutter as he has English Language mastery factor hands down over dubya - so get over it already.

Spare me the fear of socialism ... some socialistic policies are tried and true means of abating economic collapse; it's either that or complete national bankruptcy, people.

I'll tell you what you ought to be freaked out about ... gun rights.  The reintroduction of coal as a viable energy source. Taking care of our veterans when they return home.  I haven't heard a president NOT promise that it was going to get better for vets and we're still waiting.  Transparency for bail-out recipients. He agreed it should happen, but ... Citicorp just bought some luxury jets.

Talk about drinking Kool Aid.  Stop drinking the Kool Aid that is this thread, turn Limbaugh off and flush him down, and get your *** on the ball, peeps.  If you want things to change, quit yer itching and get out and DO SOMETHING.

DO SOMETHING!

That's the freakin' message!

Sheesh.


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## CoryKS (Jan 27, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> All this talk of Brownshirts, Papa Doc, Mao and Hitler really makes me wonder about the mental stability of some on this board. You're practically soiling yourselves in fear and outrage, when basically nothing has been done and said at this point.


 
Welcome to my world.  I've been saying things like that for the last eight years. 



Empty Hands said:


> It looks like we have the reverse of "Bush Derangement Syndrome" brewing up in full force. I was hoping we could avoid some of those pathologies this time around.


 
Oh, no sir.  The Left is going to get its full share.  You betcha.


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 27, 2009)

Empty Hands said:


> No. Any comparison is specious, and calls into question the sanity of the person proposing it. When the government starts making us buy it, then maybe the comparison has some merit. Until then, it's freely offered on Amazon.com to anyone who may or may not want to buy it.


 
I find these comparisons specious. This is no more significant that the dolls modelled after the Obama daughters. Just another free marketeer trying to make a sale. As someone pointed out above, the bookshelves are bulging with books of quotes and phrases and ideologies. Like the Obama Book, nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head.



> All this talk of Brownshirts, Papa Doc, Mao and Hitler really makes me wonder about the mental stability of some on this board. You're practically soiling yourselves in fear and outrage, when basically nothing has been done and said at this point. It looks like we have the reverse of "Bush Derangement Syndrome" brewing up in full force. I was hoping we could avoid some of those pathologies this time around.


 
...which helps me to understand why a third party doesn't rise up in the USA. Apparently many have trouble acknowledging the two that currently exist.


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