# Concealed Carry Shorts



## stonewall1350 (Feb 4, 2010)

I am just curious if anyone knows a good brand of concealed carry shorts. I live in Florida so pants, vests, and jackets are not usually an option because I would die of heatstroke rather than a gun fight. I saw blackhawk had compression shorts that would sit under a regular pair of shorts, but I dont know about the comfort level of those things...I wear them in my BJJ class and I dont find them to be someting I can wear daily.


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## jks9199 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm a grown up...  I generally wear long pants (jeans, typically) in public.  A loose t-shirt or shirt takes care of covering the gun, cuffs, and spare ammo.  Jean shorts and similar shorts with belts would solve your problem; look at both inside the pants holsters and pancake holsters, and see what'll work best for you.  You can go with the "I'm carrying a gun" fanny pack, as well.


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## Flea (Feb 4, 2010)

Long skirts are nice and cool.  :uhyeah:


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2010)

Check out the gear from 5-11..They prolly have what you are looking for..


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 4, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> I'm a grown up... I generally wear long pants (jeans, typically) in public. A loose t-shirt or shirt takes care of covering the gun, cuffs, and spare ammo. Jean shorts and similar shorts with belts would solve your problem; look at both inside the pants holsters and pancake holsters, and see what'll work best for you. *You can go with the "I'm carrying a gun" fanny pack, as well*.


 
This is my current option. Since I only carry when I'm hiking alone, a fanny pack is suitable and innocuous.


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## Big Don (Feb 4, 2010)

Is that a gun in your shorts, or are you happy to see me?


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## rlobrecht (Feb 4, 2010)

I haven't tried them, but I'm intrigued by the Tactical 5.11 shorts.


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## zDom (Feb 4, 2010)

Big Don said:


> Is that a gun in your shorts, or are you happy to see me?



Can't it be both?


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 4, 2010)

I believe one method is known as 'keistering'.  I think it would work with any type of shorts.  I would not recommend it, but apparently it has been used with great success by people who have an urgent need to hide their weapons.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 4, 2010)

My IWB holster disappears just fine under a t-shirt and a pair of cargo shorts (I buy the Wrangler brand at wal-mart because I don't like paying $30-40/each for 5.11).


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 4, 2010)

Well aside from the "Im a grown up" and "skirt" comments from those of you who have no concept of what 105 Degree temps plus humidity are like...thanks guys. I had heard of 5-11 just today from my cousin. I also buy the cheap cargo shorts from walmart and sams cause I am a poor college student who actually has to work(unlike many fellow liberal classmates lol).


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 4, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I believe one method is known as 'keistering'.  I think it would work with any type of shorts.  I would not recommend it, but apparently it has been used with great success by people who have an urgent need to hide their weapons.



Why, yes, there is such a term. According to Urban Dictionary...



> 1.     Keistering
> To hide or smuggle items in ones anus
> 
> 2.     keistering
> ...


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keistering

I'm guessing _keistering_ is great for weapon retention, but for the quick draw, not so much.


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2010)

Flea said:


> Long skirts are nice and cool.  :uhyeah:


Maybe... but I don't have the legs for 'em!  And short skirts... NO WAY! :EEK:


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## jks9199 (Feb 5, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> Well aside from the "Im a grown up" and "skirt" comments from those of you who have no concept of what 105 Degree temps plus humidity are like...thanks guys. I had heard of 5-11 just today from my cousin. I also buy the cheap cargo shorts from walmart and sams cause I am a poor college student who actually has to work(unlike many fellow liberal classmates lol).


Actually... Yeah, I do.  And I know what 100+ temps in 90% to 100% humidity are like.  Wearing body armor.  You might want to look at the weather in the paved swamp that's the greater DC Metropolitan area...  I'm just old fashioned enough to actually tend to wear pants -- not shorts, unless I'm exercising.  (Even then, I tend to wear sweat pants -- but that's vanity more than convenience.)  The reality is that you can't always wear shorts.  And if you choose to carry a gun, that's going to affect what you can wear.  Especially if you have to carry more than the gun.  (Do you carry spare ammo?  What are you going to do in the event of a malfunction?)


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## Carol (Feb 5, 2010)

These are not shorts, but they may be helpful depending on your needs.  

There are some newer concealment bags that are designed to look more like a camera case.  They are black square zipper bags that attach to the belt.

Here is one example:​
http://www.kgproducts.com/HANDIBAGS.html


While this is not my favorite choice, some folks opt to carry a sidearm in a seperate bag.  Some ladies carry in a handbag, there are also attaches and brief cases that are more masculine (or at least, gender-neutral). 

Here is one example:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0025ZIB22?&tag=shopwiki-us-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Feb 5, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> Well aside from the "Im a grown up" and "skirt" comments from those of you who have no concept of what 105 Degree temps plus humidity are like...thanks guys. I had heard of 5-11 just today from my cousin. I also buy the cheap cargo shorts from walmart and sams cause I am a poor college student who actually has to work(*unlike many fellow liberal classmates lol*).


 
WTF? Liberals don't have to work? No one told me!


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## Flea (Feb 5, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> Well aside from the "Im a grown up" and "skirt" comments from those of you who have no concept of what 105 Degree temps plus humidity are like...thanks guys. I had heard of 5-11 just today from my cousin. I also buy the cheap cargo shorts from walmart and sams cause I am a poor college student who actually has to work(unlike many fellow liberal classmates lol).



Actually, I was quite serious about the skirt.  I spent several months hitch hiking in Africa back when I was young and invincible, carrying my house in a big frame backpack.  Temperatures averaged 110-120 in most of the places I went.  Women do _not_ wear shorts there.  

But they really are very practical - you can cover yourself very effectively in something that creates its own breeze with every step. In winter they can also be pretty warm if you combine them with tights or longjohns, and a good pair of boots.  If they're designed right you can have very deep pockets that aren't apparent to a casual (or even in-depth) glance. And from a woman's perspective a clunky skirt has the added safety benefit of being "modest," shielding your bod from unwanted attention (to a point - it never really goes away.)  For a deeper analysis I'll refer you to this thread.

You'd be amazed at what you can conceal in a skirt.  Yes, there's the social taboo about "womens" clothing, but give it a try in the privacy of your living room.  You'll be surprised.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok, with all this talk about skirts, someone has to say it..._How 'bout a kilt?_ 

http://www.utilikilts.com/



			
				jks9199 said:
			
		

> The reality is that you can't always wear shorts. And if you choose to carry a gun, that's going to affect what you can wear. Especially if you have to carry more than the gun. (Do you carry spare ammo? What are you going to do in the event of a malfunction?)



For the record, I carry the same crap year-round whether in pants or shorts...gun, spare mag, light, knives, etc.  It can be done, you just have to be willing to do it.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 5, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> WTF? Liberals don't have to work? No one told me!


 
lol....well you would be suprised. The most liberal kids at the University I attend are the ones who never had a job and their parents pay for EVERYTHING they do. It is actually quite annoying to be told about what I should do with my money when they have no concept of what it is to actually WORK for my money lol. If you have a job your already better than the people I am talking about. These are the kids that think Carl Marx had some good points.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 5, 2010)

As for skirts....um I am a guy so they aren't really an option here in the states. I mean I understand dressing around a firearm. That makes alot of sense, but pants are not practical in the environment I am in. I mean this summer we had to work in 105 temps plus the 100% humidity. It was 7 at night and still 105 too lol. Now why can the special concealed carry pants that like blackhawk makes be made into shorts? Cargo shorts and tac pants are almost identical down to the knees.


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 5, 2010)

www.smartcarry.com


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## Gordon Nore (Feb 5, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> lol....well you would be suprised. The most liberal kids at the University I attend are the ones who never had a job and their parents pay for EVERYTHING they do. It is actually quite annoying to be told about what I should do with my money when they have no concept of what it is to actually WORK for my money lol. If you have a job your already better than the people I am talking about. These are the kids that think Carl Marx had some good points.



You might be confusing "liberal" with "spoiled." Admittedly, it's easier to be liberal on someone else's dime, but there are a few of us lefties who work for a living. Left or right, people who are sitting around waiting for their parents to die are a pain. I wonder if *K*arl Marx wrote anything about that.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 5, 2010)

Gordon Nore said:


> You might be confusing "liberal" with "spoiled." Admittedly, it's easier to be liberal on someone else's dime, but there are a few of us lefties who work for a living. Left or right, people who are sitting around waiting for their parents to die are a pain. I wonder if *K*arl Marx wrote anything about that.


 

lol i misspell his name on purpose....did i not put carl marcks? But I am only throwing the stereotype from my university. No offense intended to you if you have a job lol. My best friend is a democrat and a Marine who has already been overseas. I would say he has done more for a living than i ever will lol.


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## Flea (Feb 6, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> Now why can the special concealed carry pants that like blackhawk makes be made into shorts? Cargo shorts and tac pants are almost identical down to the knees.



[yt]Rngml33Ughw[/yt]


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> Now why can the special concealed carry pants that like blackhawk makes be made into shorts? Cargo shorts and tac pants are almost identical down to the knees.



Because men wearing shorts look like sissies.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 6, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Because men wearing shorts look like sissies.


 
I like how the guy from Michigan says this. The guy with no concept of what 100% humidity in Florida actually feels like lol. Tell that to Brandon Spikes and see what he thinks of it  (yea i saw him on campus not to long ago...that is one big dude).


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> I like how the guy from Michigan says this. The guy with no concept of what 100% humidity in Florida actually feels like lol. Tell that to Brandon Spikes and see what he thinks of it  (yea i saw him on campus not to long ago...that is one big dude).



I'm not 'from' Michigan, I just live here now.  And I've been stationed in Okinawa and the Philippines, so yes, I know what heat and humidity are like.  Shorts are for sissy-boys, unless you're out doing exercise or fighting in a ring.


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## Tames D (Feb 6, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Shorts are for sissy-boys.


 
I'd like to introduce you to some of my sissy friends.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 6, 2010)

Tames D said:


> I'd like to introduce you to some of my sissy friends.



If they're wearing shorts, I don't want to see them.  Icky.


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## dbell (Feb 6, 2010)

Having just left Florida (Ft. Lauderdale area) myself, and having lived in deserts on and off all my life, I have to agree with Bill, shorts isn't the best way to go...  If you move to Saudi, you will see people there fully clothed, because it is cooler....  Even with humidity, it is cooler to wear long pants.  Keeps a coolness close to your body.

Although, that said, I'm not sure I'd call a person wearing shorts a sissy either......  Just not smart with their body....


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## thardey (Feb 6, 2010)

So . . . all the fashion suggestions aside. (I never wear shorts anyore, but I live in Oregon, so I'll keep my mouth shut.)

Other than ankle holsters, what can't you do with shorts that you can do with pants?

(Assuming you're not wearing something with a drawstring, but something with belt loops.)

Shorts lend themselves easily to the "untucked shirt" style, which covers a multitude of fun toys.

It also helps to know what size gun you're trying to hide.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 6, 2010)

dbell said:


> Having just left Florida (Ft. Lauderdale area) myself, and having lived in deserts on and off all my life, I have to agree with Bill, shorts isn't the best way to go... If you move to Saudi, you will see people there fully clothed, because it is cooler.... Even with humidity, it is cooler to wear long pants. Keeps a coolness close to your body.
> 
> Although, that said, I'm not sure I'd call a person wearing shorts a sissy either...... Just not smart with their body....


 
as much as I am on the boat....and as much as I do have to walk around buildings and stuff now I would say I cool off MUCH quicker in shorts. Plus the comfort level lol. I noticed on 5-11 that htey have tac shorts. Alot of guys like them too. Plus it would be very out of character in florida for a guy to be seen wearing long pants in the middle of the summer heat. I like the concealed part of ccw lol.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 6, 2010)

thardey said:


> So . . . all the fashion suggestions aside. (I never wear shorts anyore, but I live in Oregon, so I'll keep my mouth shut.)
> 
> Other than ankle holsters, what can't you do with shorts that you can do with pants?
> 
> ...


 
A decision I am still trying to make. I might settle with a cheap revolver if I can find the right .357 mag that is small enough. But if not I will probably look at maybe a small 1911. Tho now that my cousin has purchased this newer S&W 9mm that is very easy to break down and clean and very small. I might look at it. I have never been a big fan of 9mm. I like .45 acp because I can control the recoil and I know that if I hit someone in the chest 1 will be sufficient and 2 is going to be overkill(which is what I believe in...the 1 extra principle).


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## thardey (Feb 6, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> A decision I am still trying to make. I might settle with a cheap revolver if I can find the right .357 mag that is small enough. But if not I will probably look at maybe a small 1911. Tho now that my cousin has purchased this newer S&W 9mm that is very easy to break down and clean and very small. I might look at it. I have never been a big fan of 9mm. I like .45 acp because I can control the recoil and I know that if I hit someone in the chest 1 will be sufficient and 2 is going to be overkill(which is what I believe in...the 1 extra principle).


 
I hear ya -- just to throw in my experiences.

My dad carries a .38 S&W airweight with Crimson trace grips, in his front pocket of the 5.11 cargo pants, and he really likes that. He's a dyed-in-the-wool .357 devotee, but with the right hollowpoints, (Supers, I believe) he feels good about the .38.

Me, I like the option for the extra magazine, so I carry the .40 Kahr CW40. (I don't recommend the PM40) It's got nearly a full-length handle, but in a slim package, so I can also carry it in the front pocket. I usually wear Dockers, but it hides very well in cargo shorts or pants. It's got a strong punch on the recoil, but little muzzle flip, and if you can handle the .45, it's not much worse.

Of course, unless you wear very baggy jeans, it's hard to conceal in the front pocket of those, so I have a IWB holster for jean days.

I have a full-sized Glock .45 (Model 21) that I can conceal IWB under a baggy t-shirt, or a coat, but not much else.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 7, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> A decision I am still trying to make. I might settle with a cheap revolver if I can find the right .357 mag that is small enough. But if not I will probably look at maybe a small 1911. Tho now that my cousin has purchased this newer S&W 9mm that is very easy to break down and clean and very small. I might look at it.


Personally, I think one is usually better served with a compact-sized polymer gun (e.g. Glock 19/23/etc., S&W M&P compact, etc.).  Lighter, higher capacity, faster reloads, still easy to conceal.



stonewall1350 said:


> I have never been a big fan of 9mm. I like .45 acp because I can control the recoil and I know that if I hit someone in the chest 1 will be sufficient and 2 is going to be overkill(which is what I believe in...the 1 extra principle).


No offense but the idea that _any_ common handgun round will _consistently_ deliver a "one shot stop" is a load of crap.   Just as there are plenty of stories of one shot stops with all calibers, there are numerous stories about all calibers (9, .40, .45, etc.) failing to put the person down even after multiple rounds.  "Stopping power" results from hits to very specific areas, not from a .10" difference in diameter.
When you look at the performance of the rounds you will find that there is really not a huge difference between them given the use of modern, high quality ammunition.  The notion that an insignificant difference in ballistic performance will yield a significant difference in effect on target is something I find laughable.


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## dbell (Feb 7, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> I have never been a big fan of 9mm. I like .45 acp because I can control the recoil and I know that if I hit someone in the chest 1 will be sufficient and 2 is going to be overkill(which is what I believe in...the 1 extra principle).



When I was an active SF Medic on an active "A" Team, we used 9mm weapons (MP5 and a hand gun, both of 9mm capacity).  I was, 95% of the time, able to get a kill shot with one round from the hand gun, so I'm not sure why it is talked so badly about.  Depends on WHERE in the chest you place your "one round".

That said, in all my training in handguns, I have been taught to "double tap" the bad guy.  If you are well practiced with your weapons, the first round open the person up, the second round makes sure the job is done...  With the MP5 we did three round trigger burst.  (Even had competition to on how many times we would get exactly three rounds per burst, not 2, not 4, etc.)  

I'm not sure why you are set on a single round?


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 7, 2010)

dbell said:


> When I was an active SF Medic on an active "A" Team, we used 9mm weapons (MP5 and a hand gun, both of 9mm capacity). I was, 95% of the time, able to get a kill shot with one round from the hand gun, so I'm not sure why it is talked so badly about. Depends on WHERE in the chest you place your "one round".
> 
> That said, in all my training in handguns, I have been taught to "double tap" the bad guy. If you are well practiced with your weapons, the first round open the person up, the second round makes sure the job is done... With the MP5 we did three round trigger burst. (Even had competition to on how many times we would get exactly three rounds per burst, not 2, not 4, etc.)
> 
> I'm not sure why you are set on a single round?


 
The 1 bullet comment was reffering to the trauma caused by a .45ACP. A 9mm...if I am not mistaken...is a high velocity pentration round? I want the trauma round. Plus I LIKE .45acp. It is FAR more utilitarian than a 9mm can ever hope to be. If I own a handgun I will not only carry it in ccw, but I would also have it when I hog or deer hunt. A .45 is barely enough on deer and a 9mm is totally worthless. I dont have the money for multiple pistols so my first gun needs to be a utility gun.


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 7, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> Personally, I think one is usually better served with a compact-sized polymer gun (e.g. Glock 19/23/etc., S&W M&P compact, etc.). Lighter, higher capacity, faster reloads, still easy to conceal.
> 
> 
> No offense but the idea that _any_ common handgun round will _consistently_ deliver a "one shot stop" is a load of crap. Just as there are plenty of stories of one shot stops with all calibers, there are numerous stories about all calibers (9, .40, .45, etc.) failing to put the person down even after multiple rounds. "Stopping power" results from hits to very specific areas, not from a .10" difference in diameter.
> When you look at the performance of the rounds you will find that there is really not a huge difference between them given the use of modern, high quality ammunition. The notion that an insignificant difference in ballistic performance will yield a significant difference in effect on target is something I find laughable.


 
There is much wisdom in Matt's post.

I will be going back this month to a full size .45 (Sig P220).

But the caliber was not what caused me to select it, that was just a bonus.

It just happened that While I love 1911's I don't trust one for carry(Not because of cocked and locked, but because of what I now Know regarding the effects of adrenaline on fine motor control and the dangers that can present with a Single action only trigger) and I'm just having no damn luck with the polymers( I don't care for Glocks, I LOVE Smith M&Ps, but they don't like me--got rid of my fullsize M&P because that goddamned beavertail kept pointing the muzzle down when I pointed straight, will be ditching my M&P compact because it is TOO compact--I learned the expensive way that picking it up from a counter is different than trying to draw it from IWB--I *HAVE* to have a grip as large as ALL my fingers ot it won't work consistently), It happened that the P220 just EXACTLY met my grip requirements with nothing sticking out below my pinky, AND with the right rig was still slim enough to go IWB with a large t shirt (the other runner up , the P226/229, failed this requirement owing to its wide double stack grip). What actually drew me to the SIG (the other product under investigation was a Para Ordnance LDA) was that there are readily available .22 caliber conversion kits which in this time of ammo crunches is a godsend.

Also, the .45 does have an advantage, but it isn't the one everyone thinks, in that its (relatively) slow speed means that even as FMJ/ball ammo it's not as much of a risk to overpenetrate and endanger innocents or lose kinetic energy transfer as a result. And even without hollowpoints or +P ( though given a choice i'd still prefer them) it's still right near generating that minimum 500 ft. lbs of force that creates the hydrostatic shock so vital to a one round stop (The other calibers do this, too, absolutely, but need the JHP design to cut out the attending overpenetration risk)

What all that means is that in this day and age of way overpriced ammo, if I don't wanna pay out the nose for +P JHPs in the future, I can carry ball and not lose confidence in the weapon or create any unnecessary risk to the innocent.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 7, 2010)

stonewall1350 said:


> The 1 bullet comment was reffering to the trauma caused by a .45ACP. A 9mm...if I am not mistaken...is a high velocity pentration round? I want the trauma round. Plus I LIKE .45acp. It is FAR more utilitarian than a 9mm can ever hope to be. If I own a handgun I will not only carry it in ccw, but I would also have it when I hog or deer hunt. A .45 is barely enough on deer and a 9mm is totally worthless. I dont have the money for multiple pistols so my first gun needs to be a utility gun.



"Penetration round" and "trauma round?"  
They both poke a hole...and that's about the only trauma you can consistently expect a pistol round to inflict.  You're not going to see the large temporary wound cavity/stretch cavity, and the resulting tissue damage, that you get with a high-velocity rifle round.
  I've seen a number of posts/articles by ER doctors who say that they can't tell the difference, based on the wound, between the common handgun rounds (9, .40, .45, whatever), guys like Jim Cirillo (someone who shot quite a few people and watched quite a few autopsies  in his time) also mention this.


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## jks9199 (Feb 7, 2010)

A couple of different issues going on here.  

First, you can absolutely find shorts that you can carry a gun in.  You'll probably need jean shorts, cargo shorts with a belt, or something similar.  I've carried a paddle holster with drawstring shorts...  It'll work, but you have to tie them TIGHT.  With a knot that won't slip.  I never meant to say that you can't -- only that choosing to carry a gun will effect the clothing choices you can make.

Second, on shorts.  If you want to be taken seriously, if you're not hanging with your buds, you probably need to wear long pants unless shorts are justified by the activity.  For example -- I do wear shorts biking, and in bike uniform, when the weather is appropriate I wear shorts.  But as a general rule -- if you're doing adult stuff, you probably need to dress like an adult.  Years ago, IBM had a corporate policy that they would wear suits for all business activity.  Didn't matter where you were, you would be wearing a suit.  (And a white shirt, and conservative tie.)  They discovered when they were in the Middle East that their people were taken more seriously than some competitors who, in recognition of the temperatures, went to what amounts to modern business casual (collared shirt, slacks, not jeans).

Finally...  "Stopping power."  There simply ain't no such thing.  Most of the agencies in my area carry a .40, usually 165 grain Hydrashock or similar.  I know of two carrying .45.  I believe (not certain) that the feds are still in 9 mm camp, though I know that they've at least expressed enough interest that several manufacturers have come out with 10 mm guns.  A .22 will do the job -- if you place the round accurately.  And a 50 mm won't do more than scare the bejeezus out of you if it's a miss.  I've read plenty of accounts of people taking shots that should by all rights have killed them -- and fighting on.  (Like a guy who took a point blank shot in the throat and walked several hundred yards to his own car.  Or Sgt Marcus Young, Ukiah (CA) PD.)  And others of people taking shots that had no business being fatal, and giving up.

You're trying to make one gun do too many jobs.  You can't make one car do every job, from hauling freight to fuel efficient stop & go commuting to NASCAR.  One gun can't do a good job as a hunting back up, and a concealed self defense gun.  But a decent self defense gun can be a marginally adequate backup, if you select the right gun.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 8, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> A couple of different issues going on here.
> 
> First, you can absolutely find shorts that you can carry a gun in. You'll probably need jean shorts, cargo shorts with a belt, or something similar. I've carried a paddle holster with drawstring shorts... It'll work, but you have to tie them TIGHT. With a knot that won't slip. I never meant to say that you can't -- only that choosing to carry a gun will effect the clothing choices you can make.
> 
> ...


 
Your final comment is what I mean by utility. I would never HUNT with a pistol unless it was a .357 mag or above(probably above). But a pistol in the brush is nice for those unsuspected little suprises and the long gun is not an option. I have been hunting for years and on a few occasions wished that I could have been carrying a pistol and that is all I want for hunting purposes.


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## stonewall1350 (Feb 8, 2010)

As for the "adult" activities...I got a little peeved because the it sounded VERY condescending and as if I didn't get the shorts at the right times lecture in 6th or so grade. I mean I am a University student and I wear a suit to Church when I go lol. Plus shorts are much more the common clothing in Florida for all ages. I am the average joe...not a operator who has to worry about contact with hot pavement all the time. When I hunt I wear pants for the right reasons. But walking around in the place I am at now...shorts are appropriate lol. I wouldnt wear them if they werent . I over reacted to that comment. Sorry for that. No harm no foul I guess.


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## Hudson69 (Feb 23, 2010)

I dont know if this has been brought up yet, and I have just ordered one so I have yet to be able to testify to any quality or user friendliness but this should work with any pair of shorts provided they fit well: The clip-draw. It is a clip that attaches to the outside of almost any gun and doesnt wreck the finish (supposedly). It makes it so the gun can clip onto anything you want it to (in theory).


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 25, 2010)

Hudson69 said:


> I dont know if this has been brought up yet, and I have just ordered one so I have yet to be able to testify to any quality or user friendliness but this should work with any pair of shorts provided they fit well: The clip-draw. It is a clip that attaches to the outside of almost any gun and doesnt wreck the finish (supposedly). It makes it so the gun can clip onto anything you want it to (in theory).


 

I have to leave for work now but will post an explanation when I get home.

Long story short:  *BAD IDEA.*


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## KenpoTex (Feb 25, 2010)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I have to leave for work now but will post an explanation when I get home.
> 
> Long story short:  BAD IDEA.



In some cases...not in all.  Depends on the gun.


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 25, 2010)

Andy Moynihan said:


> I have to leave for work now but will post an explanation when I get home.
> 
> Long story short: *BAD IDEA.*


 
To elaborate:

Any holster or carry system, in order to be considered an acceptable defensive carry system, must do these things:

*Keep the gun where you put it

*Give you the gun when you want it

*Take the gun when you're done with it(WITHOUT your having to look or involve your other hand).

*Possess at least a minimal means to resist a snatch attempt( SERPA, Thumb break, tension screw, etc)

All the clipdraw meets is number 2.

It can't be considered to keep the gun where you put it because that clip can't be guaranteed to stay on the belt in the same place should you fall/need to run/whatever.

It can't be considered to take the gun when you're done with it under necessary conditions (what if you need your eyes to remain on the threat/scan for others while you reholster? What if your other hand must remain free to access a phone/deal with a sudden new attacker? What if you muzzle your own fingers while under Body Alarm Reaction, not knowing your finger's still on the trigger? Oops)

And it possesses not even the most basic retention.

I cannot in good conscience recommend it.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 27, 2010)

Just providing a few counterpoints...



Andy Moynihan said:


> All the clipdraw meets is number 2.
> 
> It can't be considered to keep the gun where you put it because that clip can't be guaranteed to stay on the belt in the same place should you fall/need to run/whatever.


I think this really depends on the type of gun. I spent quite a bit of time carrying a snubnose equipped with Barami Hip-Grips and never had a problem with it staying where I wanted it. I even grappled with it (unloaded) to test the "staying put factor." No worries...



Andy Moynihan said:


> It can't be considered to take the gun when you're done with it under necessary conditions (what if you need your eyes to remain on the threat/scan for others while you reholster? What if your other hand must remain free to access a phone/deal with a sudden new attacker? What if you muzzle your own fingers while under Body Alarm Reaction, not knowing your finger's still on the trigger? Oops)


If you're dealing with a new attacker, anticipating another threat, etc. Why are you reholstering at all? I personally think too many people emphasize a "speed re-holster." If you need to draw the gun, keep it out 'till you're sure you don't need it anymore. At that point (when you're sure you don't need it anymore right then) why is there a problem with a quick glance to make sure you're holstering it correctly. Also, a finger on the trigger while re-holstering can *probably will* cause you to get shot regardless of what kind of holster/carrying-device you're using.

Now, I can see this being a little different for a LEO on duty since they may have to perform other tasks. For example, holstering so they can apply handcuffs, or use another level of force. For most people though, I don't see it being as much of an issue.



Andy Moynihan said:


> And it possesses not even the most basic retention.
> 
> I cannot in good conscience recommend it.


When it comes to concealed carry, I tend to believe retention is a result of concealment, and physical technique--not a device on the holster. As long as the carry method provides enough "retention" to keep the gun from falling out of your pants, I don't really see the need for much more.  That being said, a gun carried IWB has some level of retention just from the tension of the belt. As I said before, I never lost my .38 when carrying with this method.



Now, I don't necessarily think the clip draw is the best method. I much prefer a regular IWB holster (and have no trouble concealing such a setup). To be honest, I wouldn't carry a Glock with this method due to the fact that the trigger-guard isn't covered. However, on a gun with a long, heavy trigger-pull like a j-frame or Kel-tec, I don't see a problem.
My point is merely that I don't think they're as bad as you're making them out to be.


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## Andy Moynihan (Feb 28, 2010)

KenpoTex said:


> If you're dealing with a new attacker, anticipating another threat, etc. Why are you reholstering at all? I personally think too many people emphasize a "speed re-holster."


 
So do I. which is why I never said anything about one.




> Also, a finger on the trigger while re-holstering can *probably will* cause you to get shot regardless of what kind of holster/carrying-device you're using.


 
Yes it will.





> When it comes to concealed carry, I tend to believe retention is a result of concealment, and physical technique--not a device on the holster. As long as the carry method provides enough "retention" to keep the gun from falling out of your pants, I don't really see the need for much more. That being said, a gun carried IWB has some level of retention just from the tension of the belt. As I said before, I never lost my .38 when carrying with this method.


 
Well--you're gonna have to stop someone unarmed a lot more often then the circumstances are right for you to draw and shoot. So out you go with your concealment rig and you think "Ok, well a gun that can't be seen can't be snatched". 

Then it happens. You're using your unarmed method, whatever it be, and your "customer" knocks one of your arms out of the way, or drops  and otherwise gets his arms around your waist to tackle or throw you--and bump frisks your holster. Oops.

I can't speak for anyone else but I want a thumb break on my holster then. it'll give me enough time to discourage him with a "thumb break" of my own.


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