# JKD practitioners in contestest?



## jkd friend (Jan 26, 2007)

Are there any JKD practitioners in competition I know there maybe a few but I don't see them and is it wrong to compete if you practice JKD?


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## Infinite (Jan 26, 2007)

Funny you should ask... I Did the same thing. There are in fact a few people that compete with JKD skills. 

The problem is there are two forms of JKD (Well more than that)

Jeet Kun Do (Concepts) and Juan Fan Jeet Kun Do the difference is one is the concept that JKD represents the other is the actual work and mechanics of Bruce Lee. 

Concepts often include things like escrima and BJJ while Juan Fan JKD strictly limits itself to the drills and practices endorsed by Bruce Lee during his life time.

JKD Practitioners are probably rare as in that is what they call their primary art. Primarily this is due to the fact that they are concept practioners. This means they really only took the trapping from Bruce and the rest is some other form of art.

I was thinking of gearing up just to compete under JKD to see how well it would hold up in that style of fighting but the problem goes back to JKD Concepts or Juan Fan?

Juan Fan is hard to find an instructor in the Bruce Lee Foundation is supposed to be the only one to certify people and they haven't done that yet.

The Concepts people usually fight under the primary art and you would only notice JKD if they happend to use a trap.

--Infy


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## jkd friend (Jan 26, 2007)

Infinite said:


> Funny you should ask... I Did the same thing. There are in fact a few people that compete with JKD skills.
> 
> The problem is there are two forms of JKD (Well more than that)
> 
> ...


 

It is hard to find a JKD teacher a real one anyway!!!


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## tellner (Jan 26, 2007)

A lot of people from the JKDC clan are involved in MMA.


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## Dancing Dragon (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't believe it's wrong at all to compete if you practice JKD. You just have to remember that on the street, you don't have to confine yourself to the same rules as the ring. I don't fight in the cage or ring because of the restraining and confining rules that prevent me from using my full potential and expressing myself 100%.

Personally, I prefer to fight outside of any rules and restrictions. And when I do, I fight with my whole spirit behind it. The whole reason I took up JKD is because I wanted to be able to express myself completely and become a great fighter, but I don't need championship belts or publicity to show that I can fight. If a guy would like a demonstration, or if he would like to spar or fight with me, then so be it, I have no qualms with showing the skills that I trained hard for. 

In conclusion, I think competing is okay, but competing under the safe shield of rules too often will simply hinder you in a true altercation.


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## Dare Devil (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm part of the Inosanto Lineage but focus more on the LA JKD material.  I used JKD hands in amateur boxing to good results.  I think the JKD approach to training allows for a more intentional type of training.


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## Empty Hands (Mar 1, 2007)

Dancing Dragon said:


> In conclusion, I think competing is okay, but competing under the safe shield of rules too often will simply hinder you in a true altercation.



So in a friendly bout of sparring or training you would use full force eye strikes, throat gouges, knife-edge kicks to the knee and similar?  You wouldn't stop when someone tapped out?  Enjoy your time in prison.


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## Zaose (Mar 1, 2007)

Empty Hands said:


> So in a friendly bout of sparring or training you would use full force eye strikes, throat gouges, knife-edge kicks to the knee and similar?  You wouldn't stop when someone tapped out?  Enjoy your time in prison.



I think what he is trying to say is, that fighting in the ring has a different mental aspect than fighting for your life - which is obviously the case for most people (though, not all I imagine).

I know plenty of people who train to defend themselves and don't care about sport at all. They truly feel the "Martial" in martial arts is about life and death. Some of them are scary mofos who I'd never want to cross. 

To each their own really - sport fighting and self defense ARE different. 

Can a cage fighter defend himself? I have no doubts they could.

Does a person need to fight in a cage to be able to defend themselves? Certainly not.

While I think "you fight how you train" is mostly correct,  I have trained with cage fighters who would have no problem using foul tactics the same as anyone defending their life, especially if you started doing it first.

I think for actual self defense there is a mental aspect to training that needs to be covered, and of course, defense against weapons (and possibly weapons vs weapons training).

Just my humble.


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## Dancing Dragon (Mar 2, 2007)

Empty Hands said:


> So in a friendly bout of sparring or training you would use full force eye strikes, throat gouges, knife-edge kicks to the knee and similar?  You wouldn't stop when someone tapped out?  Enjoy your time in prison.



Yeah, Zaose read me correctly. I mean that, the best way to train for self defense, is to put yourself in as real a simulation as possible. If you wanna learn to swim, get in some water. And who uses full force during "sparring"? It's supposed to be a practice fight, so of course I wouldn't use all my abilities. That's just askin for prison time :ultracool

Peace


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## g-bells (Mar 2, 2007)

jkd friend said:


> It is hard to find a JKD teacher a real one anyway!!!


 
there is jkd and then thers others claiming to teach jkd.

og jkd is what bruce developed and perfected and thats what i believe is the real jkd seeing that it's what he developed. all the other stuff is supplementry to jkd but not jkd


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## Dare Devil (Mar 2, 2007)

Sparring may not be the same as fighting, but it is one of the few alternatives that is safe, legal and can give you the experience of encountering resistance.  How one approaches sparring can make a difference.  There is ring oriented sparring like boxing or kickboxing where both people know when they will engage and use a lot of timing and distancing.  You can also use senario sparring where one participant doesn't know when he will be attacked and the action is kept to a minimal amount of time.  When I taught groups, we also experimented with various environmental variables such as lighting, noise, obstacles, etc.  Learning to assess threat, prepare for surprise attack (to a point) and negotiate environmental variables while still fighting rather than one-sidedly rehearsing a routine is good training in my opinion.  It's also fun as hell especially when you throw in various types of weapons.


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## Zaose (Mar 2, 2007)

Good stuf Dare Devil - scenario training is an excellent way to prepare people for a violent encounter "in teh deadly streets!"


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## joeygil (Mar 8, 2007)

g-bells said:


> there is jkd and then thers others claiming to teach jkd.
> 
> og jkd is what bruce developed and perfected and thats what i believe is the real jkd seeing that it's what he developed. all the other stuff is supplementry to jkd but not jkd


 
Man, no need to open up this whole can of worms.

I personally study Jun Fan / JKD under Sifu Yori Nakamura and Sifu Dan Inosanto.  That class just covers what Sijo Bruce Lee taught in his life time.

But I also don't see anything wrong with not limiting yourself to what he taught in his lifetime*.  One of my issues with JF/JKD (aka original JKD) that applies to this topic is the relatively unsophisticated ground fighting.  JF/JKD doesn't really have the ground arsenal to effectively fight BJJ.

I really don't care, since I don't plan to go into MMA competition.  I don't expect to ever need to use this stuff for anything besides exercise and the joy of learning it - so I have no issue restricting myself to JF/JKD.  But I make no illusions for myself that it's infallable, or even "up to date" with contemporary MMA.



* At the same time, I think some people take it too far and keep adding, and forget to take away what's useless.


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## Dare Devil (Mar 9, 2007)

Though I'm a little rusty with his material, I think Erik Paulson's CSW is a great complement to JKD.  When I taught group classes, my advanced JKD students got a healthy dose of his grappling to round out their fighting repetoire.  It's aggressive and mobile with a great mix of striking and grappling.  The teaching and training methods also lend themselves well to those who are part of the Inosanto Lineage.


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## Tim McFatridge (Mar 21, 2007)

Infinite said:


> Juan Fan is hard to find an instructor in the Bruce Lee Foundation is supposed to be the only one to certify people and they haven't done that yet.
> 
> The Concepts people usually fight under the primary art and you would only notice JKD if they happend to use a trap.
> 
> --Infy


I wanted to post an email that I received from the Bruce Lee Foundation some time back in response to a question I asked. I specifically asked them if  they were going to set themselves up as the only source for certification in Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do. This is their response... DO NOT BELIEVE PEOPLE WHEN THEY SAY THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET CERTIFIED IN JUN FAN JEET KUNE DO IS BY GOING THRU THE BLF! THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE AND MISCONCEPTION. I have talked with them several times about many different issues and what I find almost 99% of the time is that the BS I read on the forums is lies and rumors. If you want to answers always go to the source.

info@bruceleefoundation.org

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Dear Tim,

Thank you for your e-mail to the Foundation.  Sorry it has taken a bit  
to get back to you.

The Foundation is not the only recognizing body of JKD, and there are  
other qualified instructors out there.  In addition, it is not true  
that Dan Inosanto's students will be excluded from recognition.  Our  
program is open to anyone who wishes to partake in it.

Sincerely,
The Bruce Lee Foundation

I have trained with Sifu Larry Hartsell for the last 13 years, I have trained with Sifu Dan at seminars and training camps as well as many other "JKD" guys. Larry and Dan do teach Jun Fan/JKD if that is what you want. As far as JKD guys competing...look at Erik Paulson...he is the former World Light Heavyweight Champion of Shooto. He trained with Yori Nakamura(sp) in Shoot for a long time as well as BJJ and several other arts. Yes, he did train in other arts besides JFJKD...but the difference with these guys and all the other "JKDC" guys is the fact that they are able to blend what ever art they train in and flow from one range to the other and make it work....because of one of Bruce's principles...and that is "Economy of Motion". 

Sorry for going on and on guys but if a "JKDC" guy steps in the ring you will be able to tell by more than his "trapping" because there is alot more to use from JF/JKD than just trapping. I have been in several MMA/NHB fights as well as grappling tournaments and my JKD training paid off great. I was able to go from one range to the next with out thought because I knew how to flow. I also knew how not to get mentally stuck in one range. I suggest everyone go back and read Bruce's other books that he actually wrote instead of reading the TAO of JEET KUNE DO all the time. Bruce did not write that book, instead it is made up of his notes and writings that were put together after his death. Go back and read all of the "Fighting Methods: Basic, Advanced Self Defense etc. if you want to see some of the things that Bruce would do in a fight. The Self-Defense one actually has him using some grappling that he picked up from Wally Jay in Small Circle Jiu-Jitsu and some things that he got from Judo Gene LeBell. He counters a shoot/double leg with a sprawl and a face lock to get the guy down then locks/chokes him. Then he counters another attack and takes the guy down and finishes with a kick to the guys head. Great stuff. 

Ok, I am off my soap box... BUT PLEASE PEOPLE GET OFF OF THIS BS ABOUT ORIGINAL JUN FAN/JKD VERSUS JKD CONCEPT. YOU CAN NOT HAVE JKDCONCEPT WITHOUT FIRST HAVING AND UNDERSTANDING JUN FAN. YOU CAN'T DO IT...BECAUSE JUN FAN IS THE BASE...IT IS THE CORE ART OF WHAT WE DO. LEAVE THE POLITICS TO THE POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON AND START ACTING LIKE THE MARTIAL BROTHERS THAT WE ALL ARE. AFTER ALL IF YOU TRAIN IN JKD THEN WE ALL GOT WHAT WE DO FROM THE SAME SOURCE....BRUCE LEE.


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## gino (Dec 29, 2007)

Tim your the Man,,  thanks for goin the extra mile to settle the stupid politics about this...
  You should post this all over the world!!...
  I am sure its rough on Dan,cause people talk crap,and it makes him look bad like he stole something from bruce...... 
   him and bruce were great friends,and I bet hes just trying to keep alive a dream the way he hoped bruce would have wanted
   hes a great man,and hes contributed alot to JKD...and to be honest I dont know if JKD would be as "destructive" if it wasnt for what he has added with his phillipino styles... 
  from what I understand.. Bruces wife owns the JKD organazation, and from what I hear,,shes a *****..    I think that has something to do with the "politics" and the BS we all here with Art vs concept.. 

 What I wonder ...is that if Bruce Lee was alive Today...
  What would JKD look like?


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