# Kenpo Sticks



## Stick Dummy (Jun 7, 2002)

I too lazy to do an archieve search tonight   and thought I'd build on the recent thread


  What type of sticks do Kenpo Stylists use for training as intermediate distance weapons?

How about lengths? 

Some FMA styles prefer approx 26" lengths, some LOOOOOOONG 31" LENGTHS.


Rattan or bamboo?
Hardwood?
Synthetics?


Last - What do you practice your  technique and delivery on ? 

Heavy Bags, Tires, Ukes?


I KNOW for a fact Seig has a buncha Bamboo lying around to "Cane" slackers at his classes.......... :erg: 


heh-heh


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## Rainman (Jun 7, 2002)

Currently using 28" rattan... haven't had much luck with hardwood-they seem to break and splinter on me.  The composites are too slipery for me because they don't absorb sweat.  

Thinking of switching to 26" for a change but not sure when I will get around to that.   Anybody use 24" comparitively to 28"?

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> *What type of sticks do Kenpo Stylists use for training as intermediate distance weapons?
> How about lengths?
> *



Pete, the unique thing about the "Kenpo Clubs" (Sticks) is that we tailor the sticks to the individual.  The Length depends upon each persons arm length... you take your club and extend your 1st finger put the club to the end of your finger and then go to your elbow.... 1 1/2 beyond your elbow cut the club..... you now have a perfect fit for your personal Kenpo Clubs...

I prefer hard wood such as Rose Wood, Purple Heart, Iron Wood, Padauk or Oak, but others will do.

What do we practice on..... everything.... trees, old heavy bags, ex wives.. (just kidding), tires, an of course my favorite partner  .... Ricardo Castillo or Gou Ronin.

:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Jun 7, 2002)

This is the first time I ever measured the ones I play with and they are 22" long.  I got them when I first started kenpo way back when and just bought them off the rack you might say.

Do you think they are too short?




:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...




Some of the old timer FMA in the PI would cut
rattan to the person's personal length. The length
was to fit up your sleeve or to be able to be
carried in your palm tucked along your arm
and under your underarm.

As it is tailored to the individual this is good
for the individual if they have a good basic set
of fundamentals.

If all sticks are the same size for beginners then
the distancing is the same between the two
practicing together. This avoids the 22" versus
the 32" and one having to fight long while the
other short. This is good for people who have
their fundamentals but for the beginners it might
be better to comprehend the concepts being taught
if they distance is the same or close for both.

Just my opinion.  

Thanks

Rich


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## Rainman (Jun 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *
> 
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Only if their arms and legs are the same length.



> This is the first time I ever measured the ones I play with and they are 22" long. I got them when I first started kenpo way back when and just bought them off the rack you might say.



Depends on what you are doing and how you are doing it.   For chokes and butte strikes possible so.   If 2 inches are left  from hand placement down that only leaves 15 or so inches to the tip.  Ever get knuckle busters?


:asian:


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 8, 2002)

Wow thanks for the replies!

  Its interesting to see the variation.

How about diameter of the sticks/clubs?


GD7 - sounds a lot like fitting Tonfas back when I did them. 

 VERY NICE selections for wood, you have been around.  

My personal favorite hardwood for weapons is African Bubinga which is a blood red orange color.

  Seigs seen it on my Training Machetes, Tom Kier custom Kerambit, and Kimber Classic, I think last week Norm Abrams made a set of Bubinga headed croquet mallets (Hey now that may have disguised MA potential)


Rainman,

KnuckleBusters?  I am a member of the exclusive "Club E.R.":erg: 
Seigs seen a little bit of my Stick Dummy decoration from time to time.
 Normally we wear La Crosse gloves for glove sparring and FC bouts. Oh and did I mention welded mesh steel helmets??


Rich,

Thanks I use 26" and so far "paired" sizes works well for my limited training and experience, still learning closing, distancing and bobbing the hard way.


:asian:


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## satans.barber (Jun 8, 2002)

I took a 25 pence broom handle and sawed it in half, still using my two halves after 5 years! I spray painted them black with the end of a can of spray paint, then added a double ring of red electrical tape a little way up to remind me not to hold them at the end.

Also, if you want some metal ones, go get one of those crappy little fold away tripod stool things they're selling in all the everything-for-a-pound shops and a rip a couple of the legs off, perfect length.

Ian.

and since we're into pictures at the moment...old faithful! :


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _*
> My personal favorite hardwood for weapons is African Bubinga which is a blood red orange color.
> *



I have  not seen those....... I want some by the sound of it!!!

Diameter of clubs is again fit to the hand but usual is about 1" to 1 1/2"  my personal is  1 1/4". 

:wah: I want some African Bubingas now...............:wah:

:asian: :wah:


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## Rainman (Jun 8, 2002)

> KnuckleBusters? I am a member of the exclusive "Club E.R." Normally we wear La Crosse gloves for glove sparring and FC bouts. Oh and did I mention welded mesh steel helmets??



At least you are not wearing the famous screen doors of Dog Brother fame.   Gotta respect those guys "higher consciousness through harder contact".    Works for me.

:asian:


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 8, 2002)

My instructor used to spar with Eric Knause pretty regularly in pre-Dog Brothers daze (oops) days from my understanding.

After a couple Punyos from him, I undestand EXACTLY why they went to welded mesh.................


GD7 - Let me know when you're coming up to work with Seigs school, and I'll try to accomodate you with the Bubinga sticks, 26" x 1 1/4" diameter sound OK?


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 8, 2002)

Super...... can't wait!!


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## RCastillo (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
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Hey, I saw that!

It's no wonder I always feel like I've been beaten when I get up. Now I know.


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## RCastillo (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> 
> *My instructor used to spar with Eric Knause pretty regularly in pre-Dog Brothers daze (oops) days from my understanding.
> 
> ...



Sure you wanna do that?

Not a good career choice!

Wear that cup!

BTW, do look for them big Scorpions from Arizona he likes to bring along as "Party Favors." You might see one, or two wandering around after he's gone!


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## RCastillo (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> 
> *
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How does one perceive "Higher Conciousness", when they're in a coma?  Interested parties would like to know!


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## Sandor (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> 
> *...Bubinga sticks, 26" x 1 1/4" diameter sound OK? *



Oh man, I want a pair of those. I like the big heavy sticks and bubinga is considerably heavier than rattan. It is a really nice looking wood too, naturally a deep redish/purplish color if I recall correctly.

When I worked in a cabinet shop we used to make butcher block style (laminated rock maple/ippee er spelling...) sticks that were glued up with tight bond II and turned on a lathe. Nice heavy, great looking sticks, comprable in weight to a police baton and real hard. Eventually the beatings would crack them along the seams. Were fun to make though 

Peace,
Sandor


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 8, 2002)

Hey, 

They're specifically for use on YOU Mastah Castillo :rofl: 

  You see, I was born in Ft. Defiance, AZ. and me n' GD7 have this secret Navaho reservation bond............

   Ask Seig, when I'm around martial artists they are NEVER the same again.

 They step funny, use Live Hands:duel:, and carry gear bags that go CLUNK when they're put down. and if they are single they get the Babes :ladysman: :jedi1:


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## RCastillo (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> 
> *Hey,
> 
> ...



Ouch!!!(Red Welts)

Ft. Defiance? That says alot.I know I'm in trouble now.

You have a bond with that transplanted Irishman from Colorado?

Hmmm, better withdraw, and come up with a new game plan.:apv:


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## KenpoTess (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *
> 
> BTW, do look for them big Scorpions from Arizona he likes to bring along as "Party Favors." You might see one, or two wandering around after he's gone! *




*Looking up a defense against Dennis's Party Favor Scorpions.. hmmm . methinks this would be an appropriate one. .'Leap of Death'.. yeppers.. woohooo.. Can't wait ~! *snickers*

Hey Pete.. you wanna get me a stick to use on Seig.. he's into 'poking' me  with his pointy hard finger .. Something I can slide up my sleeve would work.. hahaha.. 

Alot of our students have shown great interest in weapons .. from Bo's to nunchuks and sticks~ I guess you've sparked them~! :samurai:


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 8, 2002)

Tess,

  I have a nice little piece of solid LEXAN 1 1/4" diameter x 18" long that should just about do the trick........:erg: 

Keep'em "waltzing" till Thursday oh-tay? 

  Get the feet moving and the rest follows.   one - twothree one-twothree


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## KenpoTess (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> 
> *Tess,
> 
> ...



ohhh Pete... that sounds like just the ticket.. :EG: 
Seig's sleeping right now.. Kept him up all day and he just gave up.. *chuckles.. Testing went Just dandily.. missed you there..It was a good workout and nobody left undrenched with sweat.. Seig even broke down and turned on the a/c~!! 
 We had a BB stop in who wanders in every once in awhile.. he did a short Sword Kata.. very nice~!!  :asian: 
I'll keep everyone Waltzing and see you Thursday~!! one-twothree one-threetwo.. errr.. Oh bother.. I'm hopeless. ~!!


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## Seig (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
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and am raising dues next week!


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## Klondike93 (Jun 8, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
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> *
> 
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Yes I have some knuckle busters, I think I'll invest in some longer ones now, thanks.


:asian:


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *Seig even broke down and turned on the a/c~!!
> *





Tess/Seig,

  Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? and this AFTER I showed you'all the "cheap" way to Air-"Condition" students......:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 
  Thats almost as good as a brisk swim in Lake Metro:lol:


Klondike, 

  Choking up on the sticks (especially longer ones) seems to work well for me. 

 The fist height extension works great for Punyo's, thats FMA for buttstrokes/strikes, and some other possibilities.

  More importantly, from what I've seen and felt, it allows you to keep your opponents weapon further away from you-  A GOOD THING!


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## tonbo (Jun 9, 2002)

Hey, Stick Dummy!!!  Can I place an order for some of those, too?  I am really intrigued, and I think that those sound really, really nice!!

Currently, I have a couple of sets of sticks.  I have a pair of the bamboo/rattan, a couple of thinner rattan that are wrapped in colored electrical tape (alternating white and black, so they look neat when whizzing around), a pair of the foam ones (for use with lower belts), and a pair that I made from a heavy oak rod.  All are fun, but I would love to add to the collection....

Also, I came upon this link that you guys might find interesting.  This person has sticks made from high impact plastic, the kind that the canopy of fighter planes is made from......they look like they may need to find a home in my collection as well.....

Stickman's Sticks 

Let me know what you think!!  And Stick Dummy.....if you would be willing to help me out, I'll provide you with measurements and anything else you might need!!

Peace--


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 9, 2002)

Tonbo,

  My "main" set of sticks are a set of 26" HITS from Stickman I keep in a JSP Bladerigger stick case.

They ROCK!

Light, fast and totally benign looking to most folks.


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 9, 2002)

Whoops, I forgot the 3 "standard" ways to check sticks for fit,
is from armpit to joint of forearm & wrist, 
armpit to base of middle finger, 
or even armpit to the tip of middle finger.

  We have one dexterity drill where you rotate the sticks horizontally at shoulder level, and if they are too long you tend to catch yer schnazola or chin.:erg:

  The 1" to 1-1/8" diameter for about right for my hand size, but have used some "Mongo" (as in Blazing Saddles) sticks up to like 1 3/4" diameter.


 I'm still trying to master the art of twirling two pieces of 26" long 1" steel pipe which is for building strength and power...........


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## KenpoTess (Jun 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Stick Dummy _
> 
> *Tess,
> 
> ...




Hey Pete.. Thanks~!!  Perfect fit too.. Gee now I know from my armpit to wrist is 18" *chuckles.. But  ummmm  I got one stick and you gave Seig 2..~!!  Pfffts.. sure mine won't ever break..  but Pete~!! 2 ???  Just teasing.. They will be fun to work with.. I had  a good time sparring you tonight.. I learned Stuff.. ~!! Thanks again.. and come back soon..  

Tessmania   One  twothree.. One threetwo... harumphs


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## Seig (Jun 11, 2002)

> But ummmm I got one stick and you gave Seig 2..~!! Pfffts.. sure mine won't ever break.. but Pete~!! 2 ???


I got two because you ahve not yet learned independent motion!:angel:  J/K  Seriously, thanks Pete, they're fantastic and I will have hours of fun terrorizing people with them.  Heck, I may even learn how to use them!


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## KenpoTess (Jun 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> 
> *
> I got two because you ahve not yet learned independent motion!:angel:  J/K  Seriously, thanks Pete, they're fantastic and I will have hours of fun terrorizing people with them.  Heck, I may even learn how to use them! *



Just kidding my eye~!!!
Good thing I'm not taking affront to the truth.. hahaa..  
Pete.. the school is doomed with Seig armed with  2.. methinks some lessons are in order for me.. but I'm pretty dyslexic.. and coordination drills are really tough on me.. well you've seen me .. *g*
Maybe I just better keep it up my sleeve an' use the force


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 11, 2002)

come in colors?
:asian:


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## Kirk (Jun 11, 2002)

I never personally cared for the lexan sticks.  The vibration on 
the couple that I've used is a bit more drastic than the wood
ones, and the sound they make upon impact of other sticks, lexan
or wood is quite a bit louder than wood.  

What I would LOVE to see are some made like a bocan (sp?) 
for kendo practitioners.  So they can absorb some of the shock,
and you can pad up in a football helmet and sparing pads and
beat the tar out of each other.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 11, 2002)

Rough!

:asian:


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## KenpoTess (Jun 12, 2002)

My stick is solid Lexan.. that baby is great ~!  Pete even left the edges rough.. figures I could wear them out on Seig.. *g*


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 12, 2002)

GD7,

Lexan comes in a black and clear/transluscent from what i have seen.


Kirk,

  Lexan louder than wood? Not my HITS and myself and five other VERY SERIOUS sticko'philes could discerne no additional vibration, even against a Tapado, Shinai, and assorrted Bo staffs.


Bocote would be Kewl, (I use it for knife handles) but I don't know if it has the necessary strength for full contact abuse.


Tess,

 Remember to play some SOOTHING WHALE MUSIC when you practice and B-R-E-A-T-H-.........  



SIG oops Seig,

 Glad you like them, and hope you get some time to practice soon


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## Seig (Jun 12, 2002)

Lexan comes in several different colors. Reed Plastics in Rockville, MD carries just about anything available.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 12, 2002)

Neat-O
:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Jun 12, 2002)

Mr. C.

I ordered a pair of the white waxwood from Century.  It goes with the rest of the spear, staff, 2-headed spear waxwood that I have.  I cut them down to the dimensions for Kenpo Sticks (that you shared earlier), then I lightly oiled them with some tongue oil. I love these!!!  They are strong and flexable enough give not to crack, but also light enough to move fast. 

I have several sets of sticks, kokobolo, purple heart (smaller diameter due to weight), Brazilian rosewood, hickory, rattan and a set of black walnut.  The cheapest course was the broomstick years ago, but those gave up the ghost pretty fast.  I like the walnut dowel from the local hardwood store.  They have stood up well, but do show the use.  The rosewood, kokobolo, and purple heart show no marks of use, and they have been.  

Intrigued by the idea of lexan ... never thought about it.  Way cool!

For training with contact does anyone use the CPVC (hot water pipe) wrapped in A/C insulation and the ever-present duct tape?  They have a lot more flexibility than the PVC sticks the JKD people use in our school.  They are not as good at leveraging and takedowns or controls, but the fear of accidental injury goes way down.  Especially in the beginning students who are afraid of a little whap!!!!!

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 12, 2002)

Accidental Injury:erg:?????? heehee

  My club uses rattan and while the welts may be a bit errrr annoying, they go away after a while.

  A good match usually has both participants showing a "few" marks, the most annoying are the divots with the tip of the stick which leave a kinda comma looking thingee wheer they hit.

  bottom line you learn not to make mistakes, laugh when you do, and try to do better the next time around.....................



Seig,  e-mail me for a shopping list, Busy Sunday???? take about three hours to get you ready to rock n roll


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## Goldendragon7 (Jun 12, 2002)

round or what shape?

sorry for all the questions..


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 12, 2002)

Mine are 1" OD and .750" ID / .125" wall thickness.


Reid Plastics has some stuff from time to time,
 but McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com 
 has a super selection for those wanting to try synthetics. 


Worth checking out methinks


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## Roland (Jun 12, 2002)

Not bad if you have to use them, be sure to use lots of duck tape though.

I really like the Action Flex ones the best right now.


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## Kirk (Jun 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Roland _
> 
> *Not bad if you have to use them, be sure to use lots of duck tape though.
> 
> ...



We use PVC pipe cut to lenght, covered with foam pipe insulation,
and duct tape for some exercises.  They still sting, but don't hurt.


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## Seig (Jun 13, 2002)

> Seig, e-mail me for a shopping list, Busy Sunday???? take about three hours to get you ready to rock n roll


Give me a call when you get a chance and we'll discuss it.


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## Blindside (Jun 13, 2002)

> Not bad if you have to use them, be sure to use lots of duck tape though.



Actually, if you want lighter sticks that don't sting as much, try laying the duct tape along the line of the stick, so that it only takes three strips of duct tape to cover the stick.

If you wrap the duct tape around the foam, you get alot more overlap and a heavier stick.  It probably is stronger, but it also causes more flex in the stick, which most people are trying to avoid, particularly if you are working with anything the length of a jo or staff.

For sticks of 3.5 feet or less I use cpvc (the cream colored), for staff length training weapons I use schedule 40 PVC (the grey stuff).

You still will get flex in the longer weapons, but that is actually similar to what you find in chinese rattan staffs and spears.

For harder sparring we simply wrap long wooden dowels in the insulation, it still takes control, but it has more impact when it hits.

Salute,

Lamont


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## Roland (Jun 13, 2002)

Get the caps to put on the ends, that way the pipe will not as easily pop out of the tape and foam to wack someone in the lips.


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## KenpoDave (Jun 25, 2003)

Mine are 26" long, weigh 4 pounds apiece, machined from cold rolled steel pipe, sand blasted and black oxided.  Needless to say, I use them for workout only!


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## Michael Billings (Jun 26, 2003)

CPVC is the hot water pipe I use, not PVC.  I always cap the ends and add extra tape there.  They are softer, more flex, and faster due to less weight.   They also fit into a smaller person's hand more easily.

Oss & keep on whackin'


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## Elfan (Jun 26, 2003)

Length? One tailered to myself.


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## molson (Jun 27, 2003)

With all these great stick stories, my wife wants to know were all here broom sticks and mop handles went...


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## jfarnsworth (Jun 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by molson _
> *With all these great stick stories, my wife wants to know were all here broom sticks and mop handles went... *




:rofl: :rofl: 
That brings back a couple of memories.:rofl:


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