# Interesting feeling



## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2016)

Interesting feeling - From the Blog


----------



## ShawnP (Apr 18, 2016)

i dont know if i am allowed to reply at the blog link, so i will post here, i dont know anything about Yang Long or Xingyiquan Santi Shi, can you explain what it is your actually feeling, or describe what it feels like to you other than a "link"? and also do you try to do total relaxation along with weight underside? My former instructor was into this sort of thing and would incorporate his "energy" practices into our daily classes, mostly at the end of a class but we were supposed to be practicing them during as well. im interested to see if what it is you do compares to or is the same things.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2016)

It is nothing I would call energy practice, and total relaxation means limp to me and it is not limp. It is simply a connection of upper and lower, you move, everything moves. Power, in CMA, comes from your root and is directed by your waist and it goes were you need it from there.

As to describing the feeling, not sure I could, it is nothing special, it is just feeling the connections.

And as far as I know anyone can comment on the blog.


----------



## mograph (Apr 18, 2016)

If I may ... for example, I feel the connection when I initiate a hand move from a part of my body closer to my core, or closer to the floor. The resulting connected sensation is that my hand cannot really move without the initiation and movement of the parts closer to the core or floor (ideally, all parts).

I _don't_ initiate the move from my hand or arm: to do so, I would be more likely to move my hand-arm in _isolation_ from the rest of my body. 

I hope that makes sense ...


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2016)

mograph said:


> If I may ... for example, I feel the connection when I initiate a hand move from a part of my body closer to my core, or closer to the floor. The resulting connected sensation is that my hand cannot really move without the initiation and movement of the parts closer to the core or floor (ideally, all parts).
> 
> I _don't_ initiate the move from my hand or arm: to do so, I would be more likely to move my hand-arm in _isolation_ from the rest of my body.
> 
> I hope that makes sense ...


Do you not work any in isolation? I'm curious about that. I actually practice both connected and isolated movement, and have found each to be valuable.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2016)

In internal Chinese martial arts there is nothing in isolation. Whatever you move is connected to the rest of your body, how can it be isolated.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> In internal Chinese martial arts there is nothing in isolation. Whatever you move is connected to the rest of your body, how can it be isolated.


Interesting. I've been wanting to experiment with some CMA, and that gets me thinking even more about doing so. Over the last decade, I've experimented with some of the movements in NGA, to see which could be done in relative isolation. When I speak of isolation, I simply mean that the rest of the body doesn't have to respond - in most cases, I'll need the body to already be in some applicable situation or formation. 

For instance, I've practiced wrist releases (escapes from wrist grips) moving only the hand/arm. They are easier if I use the entire body, but I want to be able to deal with different situations in different directions, so if someone was punching from one side, while someone else grabs my wrist, I can release the wrist without altering my body mechanics, so those can be focused on the block or movement needed to defend the punch.


----------



## Xue Sheng (Apr 18, 2016)

I understand what you are saying, reminds me of my Jujutsu days, way back in the stone-age. But in CMA, (Specifically those arts labeled internal CMA) you simply cannot do anything    without the entire body since it is attached. At a minimum it is the base from which you are working.


----------



## mograph (Apr 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> For instance, I've practiced wrist releases (escapes from wrist grips) moving only the hand/arm. They are easier if I use the entire body, but I want to be able to deal with different situations in different directions, so if someone was punching from one side, while someone else grabs my wrist, I can release the wrist without altering my body mechanics, so those can be focused on the block or movement needed to defend the punch.


One advantage of more connected action, or remote initiation, according to Steven J. Pearlman at least, is that when we act on an opponent, if the intention for the action comes from a point that's _remote_ from the contact point (e.g. your core), it's harder for the opponent to sense that action by touch. So, theoretically, it would be harder for an opponent to counter your release if you initiated it from your core, or possibly your legs.

Also, and more to your point, in some circumstances, it's possible to make the remote actions subtle, without causing a lot of physical deflection (altering the body mechanics) in your body areas that are remote from the contact point.

Of course, there are advantages to both connected and isolated movement, as you've described.

Pearlman's book, applicable to many martial arts:
The Book of Martial Power


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> I understand what you are saying, reminds me of my Jujutsu days, way back in the stone-age. But in CMA, (Specifically those arts labeled internal CMA) you simply cannot do anything    without the entire body since it is attached. At a minimum it is the base from which you are working.


Definitely worth exploring. Thank you for the explanation!


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Apr 18, 2016)

mograph said:


> One advantage of more connected action, or remote initiation, according to Steven J. Pearlman at least, is that when we act on an opponent, if the intention for the action comes from a point that's _remote_ from the contact point (e.g. your core), it's harder for the opponent to sense that action by touch. So, theoretically, it would be harder for an opponent to counter your release if you initiated it from your core, or possibly your legs.
> 
> Also, and more to your point, in some circumstances, it's possible to make the remote actions subtle, without causing a lot of physical deflection (altering the body mechanics) in your body areas that are remote from the contact point.
> 
> ...


I'll have to look at that book. I'm not sure I agree entirely with the premise that it's harder to detect a movement that originates distally. You might be able to be further into the technique, but if the technique is a wrist lock, it will always require the movement of the hands, and that's always the same detectable movement, regardless of where it starts. Now, if I start my hands early, I give them more time to notice that movement while my body/core applies itself, whereas starting at my core will take away part of their reaction time, since the power of the technique will already be present by the time the technique reaches my hands. So maybe I agree with him.

I clearly need to read the book.


----------



## mograph (Apr 18, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> Now, if I start my hands early, I give them more time to notice that movement while my body/core applies itself, whereas starting at my core will take away part of their reaction time, since the power of the technique will already be present by the time the technique reaches my hands.


I think you've explained it better than I have!


----------



## Xue Sheng (Apr 19, 2016)

gpseymour said:


> I'll have to look at that book. I'm not sure I agree entirely with the premise that it's harder to detect a movement that originates distally. You might be able to be further into the technique, but if the technique is a wrist lock, it will always require the movement of the hands, and that's always the same detectable movement, regardless of where it starts. Now, if I start my hands early, I give them more time to notice that movement while my body/core applies itself, whereas starting at my core will take away part of their reaction time, since the power of the technique will already be present by the time the technique reaches my hands. So maybe I agree with him.
> 
> I clearly need to read the book.



Something to think about. Over the years I have had many people (one of those was Yang Jwing Ming) apply all sorts of qinna to me (wrist locks included) and I have always been able to feel it coming, could not always stop it (see YJM), but was never surprised by it. My taijiquan sifu who is looking at things much like I described locks me and I am always surprised, never felt it coming, but all of a sudden I am locked, he is always related and I never feel any pressure or force, and it is lighting fast when it happens. He has absolutely the best qinna I have ever come across. When I ask him how he does that his response is always the same "You lock yourself". 

Just something to think about


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Apr 30, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Something to think about. Over the years I have had many people (one of those was Yang Jwing Ming) apply all sorts of qinna to me (wrist locks included) and I have always been able to feel it coming, could not always stop it (see YJM), but was never surprised by it. My taijiquan sifu who is looking at things much like I described locks me and I am always surprised, never felt it coming, but all of a sudden I am locked, he is always related and I never feel any pressure or force, and it is lighting fast when it happens. He has absolutely the best qinna I have ever come across. When I ask him how he does that his response is always the same "You lock yourself".
> 
> Just something to think about


In application, this is precisely how locks (and many throws) should work. If they are truly a "best response" to the attacker's actions, the attacker puts himself within a fraction of the end result, and we simply stop, control, or move one small part to let them run into the lock they started.


----------

