# The Red Stripe Revolution.....



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 1, 2003)

A brief historical review of the EPAK "red stripes" actually reveal that he decided to place the stripes on belts back when the system was in the early stages [Late '60's] to let people see and know that there were advanced ranks developing in Kenpo and to distinguish the new {during that time period} Ed Parker System from others.  Many Martial Arts Systems believe that the show of rank on belts {stripes of any kind} or sashes are an arrogant and distasteful public "show off" of authority and not a humble attribute that any black belt should demonstrate.

History may be in process of repeating itself.  We might be close to reverting back soon, and wear NO rank on belts or face the embarrassment of public ridicule if you do wear a belt full of red as if to say.......
"Hey! ! !  look at me, the Ultimate Great Grandmaster Super Pu Ba Lord High Mocus Mega High Pinnacle Paramount Awesome Stupendous Solitary Instructor of all that have ever breathed on this planet!  [did I get them all in?]:rofl: 

Whatdayathink?


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## theletch1 (Apr 1, 2003)

I may be speaking out of place here as I am not yet a black belt but I think it would be a decent idea to "revert".  Black Belt, while very important, is still a learning stage, right?  I would not have a problem with wearing a plain black belt with no adornment what so ever.


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## KenpoTess (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *
> 
> 
> ...




Isn't that like 15th Degree title?


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## KenpoGirl (Apr 1, 2003)

Seems to me if all the black belts were a solid black belts the only way you'd know if a person had more knowledge skill than another is by example, ie on the mat.  

Otherwise, I would like to think everyone would be peers not superiors.  Would be nice anywise.  (but then again I tend to be pretty naive)

Dot

:asian:


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## True2Kenpo (Apr 1, 2003)

Mr. C,

Good afternoon sir!  How are you?

For whatever my two cents is worth, I am not sure if I agree or if I disagree to those that wear their stripes and those that do not.

I feel that if you have earned the rank, one should be able to wear the rank with pride.  Some might not agree that the person should be of that rank, but it really comes down to personal choice.

I also respect those that do not wear their rank because they do not feel it is needed.  Once a Black belt, always a Black belt.  However, as an instructor I think the different ranks of Black belt offer further advancement for those that attain the rank of Black Belt.  Many people see this attainment as the end and it truly is only the very beginning.

I feel that Mr. Chapel made a great point that we should first look at the man wearing the belt, their skill and knowledge.  But no matter what if they are wearing a Black Belt we must give them the respect.  I feel that some people have approached me and feel that I should not wear the rank I have, but in turn they still are very respectful and we must realize that some instructors define ranks in many different ways.

On another note, I do think it is cool to see the stripes and so on.  It is a sort of personal style and I think it helps us differentate between certain groups, yet also show our common trends.

So if that made any sense...

Anyway, hope all is well Mr. C and I will be sure to see you the next time I have the opportunity!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh


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## brianhunter (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *
> "Hey! ! !  look at me, the Ultimate Great Grandmaster Super Pu Ba Lord High Mocus Mega High Pinnacle Paramount Awesome Stupendous Solitary Instructor of all that have ever breathed on this planet!  [did I get them all in?]:rofl:
> 
> Whatdayathink? *



But would that mean you are still Shonuff?? The shogun of Harlem?


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## tarabos (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *History may be in process of repeating itself.  We might be close to reverting back soon, and wear NO rank on belts*



how so?...just out of curiosity. is there a group of seniors heading this up to decide that everyone will remove the stripes from their belts? 

i'm all for this...but i'd like to hear some more solid information on what and who is involved in this. is there anything relatively definite....or is this more along the lines of the way you believe things should be Mr. Conaster?


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## kenmpoka (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *A brief historical review of the EPAK "red stripes" actually reveal that he decided to place the stripes on belts back when the system was in the early stages [Late '60's] to let people see and know that there were advanced ranks developing in Kenpo and to distinguish the new {during that time period} Ed Parker System from others.  Many Martial Arts Systems believe that the show of rank on belts {stripes of any kind} or sashes are an arrogant and distasteful public "show off" of authority and not a humble attribute that any black belt should demonstrate.
> 
> History may be in process of repeating itself.  We might be close to reverting back soon, and wear NO rank on belts or face the embarrassment of public ridicule if you do wear a belt full of red as if to say.......
> ...


Not only they are looked down upon, but they also look cheap an ugly.I vote for getting rid of them. And please don't replace them wih stars.

 :asian:


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## John Bishop (Apr 1, 2003)

It's not just a American thing.  About 15 years ago I was attending a aikido seminar a friend was hosting with a visiting instructor from their Japan headquarters.  
While we we visiting after the seminar he asked in broken english what the red stripes on my belt meant.  I told him third degree or "Sandan".  
I asked what the Kanji embrodered on his belt said.  He said one side had his name, and the other side said "Yodan" (4th degree) and his organization's name.   
Next time you see a Japanese or Korean instuctor with a embroidered belt, ask them what it says. 
I think the red stripe system gives us (Kenpo/Kajukenbo) identity as American arts.


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## Michael Billings (Apr 1, 2003)

You can always wear a plain black belt at your discretion.  I had several black belts, one embroidered (kanji and name), one with stripes, and one plain.  Kanji finally shredded with age and use, gave my plain black to someone I promoted to black, passing it on, and I am stuck with stripes ... no bar ... yet.

Not sure if I like the "bar" to start with, but have no problem with those wearing it or with me wearing one should I earn it.  I think I actually prefer stripes to bar and stripes esthetically.

-Michael


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 1, 2003)

I like the stripes, they can sometimes help discern the 10 year wonders who somehow wear a 5th degree.

I also like the stripes and bars because it distinguishes us from other styles.  This is something Master Parkr put in his infintie insights books and is there a direct link to our roots.


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## tarabos (Apr 1, 2003)

WAIT WAIT WAIT...

everybody check you calendar...

nice april fools joke there Mr. C...


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## hatamotoyoshi (Apr 1, 2003)

we all know the story of getting a white belt and it darkening over the years of training to black.
and the stages in between representing the kyu ranks.
the fraying and lightening up to quasi white again for a master.
before i trained in kenpo when the world was still young,
and the beatles were on ed sullivan, i trained in judo(budokan)
with a japanese instructor, very old school.
all he wore was an old frayed blackbelt, even though he was only 5' tall you knew he was dangerous by how he carried himself.
so when i started kenpo i was shocked at all these crests ,flags,
and belt stripes.
i'm used to it now though and i think it should be up to the individual school.
remember a lot of arts don't like the black uniforms either.
(and i think there sooooo, cool!!)
                  all the best yoshi


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _*
> how so?...just out of curiosity. is there a group of seniors heading this up to decide that everyone will remove the stripes from their belts?
> 
> i'm all for this...but i'd like to hear some more solid information on what and who is involved in this. is there anything relatively definite....or is this more along the lines of the way you believe things should be Mr. Conaster?
> *



LOL, now this is how rumors get started....... lol.... NO there is no organized "movement" towards the removal of the stripes.  No Legitimate Seniors are heading this "thought" up or anything.

This is just an observation or possibility that "could" happen if the situation gets worse.  Personally I like the stripes, I feel it is a part of our roots and think the lower ranks aspire to earn the ranks and their designations.  I just wish there were more authoritive control and respect for the founder of the darn system and its ranks, so that not just everyone and their brother, sister, aunt, uncle, and close neighbor could just strap on the designations and make it ultra confusing for the lower ranks.  The legitimate Senior ranks know "who's who in the zoo and what each is capable of {pro and con} or what contributions they have or continue to have on EPAK".



:asian:


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## jfarnsworth (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> * The legitimate Senior ranks know "who's who in the zoo and what each is capable of {pro and con} or what contributions they have or continue to have on EPAK". *



Very good point sir!:asian:


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## tarabos (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *LOL, now this is how rumors get started....... lol.... NO there is no organized "movement" towards the removal of the stripes.  No Legitimate Seniors are heading this "thought" up or anything.
> 
> This is just an observation or possibility that "could" happen if the situation gets worse.  Personally I like the stripes, I feel it is a part of our roots and think the lower ranks aspire to earn the ranks and their designations.  I just wish there were more authoritive control and respect for the founder of the darn system and its ranks, so that not just everyone and their brother, sister, aunt, uncle, and close neighbor could just strap on the designations and make it ultra confusing for the lower ranks.  The legitimate Senior ranks know "who's who in the zoo and what each is capable of {pro and con} or what contributions they have or continue to have on EPAK".
> ...



hey...you could have just gone with me and said "april fools!"


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## roryneil (Apr 1, 2003)

I like the stripes. Even at lower levels it kinda split the belts in half to keep a student motivated. 
   As for someone deservinga rank or not that, is a personal thing and a character issue largely. Just because some egomaniac my don a 10th and call himself Grandmaser of All Everything, that doesn't mean say a 3rd who worked hard to achieve what he has should not be able to wear his 3 stripes with pride. And my instructor is a 7th and usually wears this one plain black belt when he works out with us.


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## Kirk (Apr 1, 2003)

So it's still up to the one wearing the belt.  But the stripes are
earned (or should be) and should be worn proudly.  Just like
earning a degree .. people work hard for them, and once they
do, many display thier degree proudly, in an expensive frame.

Also, if you're a school owner, it's damned good marketing.  

What I personally don't care for is the one stripe.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 1, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *So it's still up to the one wearing the belt.  But the stripes are
> earned (or should be) and should be worn proudly.  Just like
> earning a degree .. people work hard for them, and once they
> ...




Kirk,

Excuse the lack of knowledge in Kenpo.

By the one stripe are you referring to First Degree or
to the large bar for Fifth or an even larger bar for Tenth?

I had thought from previous discussions Tenth was to larger Bars?

Thanks!
:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Apr 1, 2003)

Rich,

One 5" red bar for 5th, a half inch, or is it inch separation and another 5' bar for 10th.  The permutations between 5th and 10th are a 5" bar and appropriate stripes.

-Michael


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *Rich,
> 
> One 5" red bar for 5th, a half inch, or is it inch separation and another 5' bar for 10th.  The permutations between 5th and 10th are a 5" bar and appropriate stripes.
> ...




Thank you Sir. :asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _*
> So it's still up to the one wearing the belt.
> *



It usually is up to your instructor or the organization you belong to.  I'd check with him first, some may have traditions that you might want to follow.



> _Originally posted by Kirk _*
> The stripes are earned (or should be) and should be worn proudly.  Just like earning a degree {certificate} .. people work hard for them, and once they do achieve the goal, many display their degree {certificate} proudly, in an expensive frame.   Also, if you're a school owner, it's damned good marketing.
> *



I quite agree!!



> _Originally posted by Kirk _*
> What I personally don't care for is the one stripe.
> *



Then maybe you shouldn't get one,  {making a note just in case I happen to be around when you test} hee hee..... I know I was awfully proud of my "1" stripe on my black belt when I got it!  ....  Are you afraid someone is going to notice that you are only a "JR." instructor?   :rofl:   We all started there at the bottom mister......... so suck it up and ............... "IF" ......... "IF" you ever get one, be proud of it!! ....... Mr. Purple Belt... Humphnhhhhhh


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _*
> By the one 1" stripe are you referring to First Degree?
> *


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _*
> 1 large 5" bar for Fifth?
> *


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _*
> One Large (5") stripe and 2 single 1" bars =  Seventh Degree?
> *


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _*
> Then 2 - 5" Bars with a  1" space between them = Tenth Degree?
> *


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## True2Kenpo (Apr 2, 2003)

Mr. C,

Hello sir!  I was just thinking about this topic and I wanted to ask if Mr. Parker had a specific time limit to advance in rank passed Black Belt?

I have heard that it was just when it was felt that the rank was deserved.  I also heard there was at least a limit of three years and I once heard you wanted to the number of years equal to the rank you were working on.

Are any of these true?

Thank you for your insight in advance sir!  Hope all is well.

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by True2Kenpo _*
> I wanted to ask if Mr. Parker had a specific time limit to advance in rank passed Black Belt?
> Joshua Ryer UPK Pittsburgh *



Yes, he did have a guideline to follow (just like everything else "organized"), he did vary it (no surprise here "flexible") just like he did when teaching techniques.  Since he was the "captain of his own ship" he did what he felt necessary in each individual instance [again, no surprise "tailoring'].



> _Originally posted by True2Kenpo _*
> I have heard that it was just when it was felt that the rank was deserved.
> Joshua Ryer UPK Pittsburgh *



In some cases ....... yes.



> _Originally posted by True2Kenpo _*
> I also heard there was at least a limit of three years between black belt ranks.
> Joshua Ryer UPK Pittsburgh *



Again, this is possible but not what he outlined....... for 1st black it was usually 1 -2 years before you were promoted to 2nd.  After that he did have a schedule to follow, only as a guide for those that needed it since he was not always accessible to talk to everyone each day.  So this gave them something to think about but not to get hung up on, like many have.



> _Originally posted by True2Kenpo _*
> I once heard you wanted to the number of years you have studied between Black Belt degrees to  equal to the rank you were working on.
> Joshua Ryer UPK Pittsburgh *



Once again this is very possible for some, in fact some other systems equate age and time in grade similar to this but certainly not the norm.  This would be up to you...... if we followed it.... hmmmmm we may not have any 10ths because they would need to study at least 59 years so only a couple would even come close to qualify LOL ....

Lets see...... 

5   years to get 1st       = 5
2   more years for 2nd  = 7
3   more years for 3rd   = 10
4   more years for 4th   = 14
5   more years for 4th   = 19
6   more years for 4th   = 25
7   more years for 4th   = 32
8   more years for 4th   = 40
9   more years for 4th   = 49
10 more years for 4th   = 59

of course this is added to that age you started at......LOL


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## kenmpoka (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Yes, he did have a guideline to follow (just like everything else "organized"), he did vary it (no surprise here "flexible") just like he did when teaching techniques.  Since he was the "captain of his own ship" he did what he felt necessary in each individual instance [again, no surprise "tailoring'].
> 
> 
> ...


probably this should be the norm. Of course exceptions are always there. A good sixth or 7th should be just like youself, age wise and knowledge wise. We've got people in diapers running around wearing these ranks right now.LOL

I have always admired you for your patience and consideration.


:asian:


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## Doc (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> *probably this should be the norm. Of course exceptions are always there. A good sixth or 7th should be just like youself, age wise and knowledge wise. We've got people in diapers running around wearing these ranks right now.LOL
> 
> I have always admired you for your patience and consideration.
> ...



Hey! Just because a person wears a diaper, doesn't mean they're young. Not that I'm talking about me or anything, I was just mentioning it. I wouldn't be caught dead with a diaper on. Wait. Scratch that, no don't scratch,  I mean........... Aw just forget it!


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## jeffkyle (Apr 2, 2003)

The short version is something like:

You start out in diapers.
You add your age.
Then you subtract your age.
Then you end up in diapers. 

Something like that anyway... 

:rofl: :rofl:


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## KenpoTess (Apr 2, 2003)

*Quirks a Brow*


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## Doc (Apr 2, 2003)

> Also, if you're a school owner, it's damned good marketing.


Competition for business has also driven ranks unneccessarily upward. Consumers asked dumb questions. "You're a 5th, but the guy down the street is a 6th so he's better right?" :shrug: 

I came through the era when Mr. Parker and most didn't wear stripes, nor did the uniform have a lot of markings. Plain belt, plain white uniform. I looked at an old sparring session with Joe Lewis and we looked sooooo "plain." Two patches were considered gawdy and in poor taste. Ed Parker only wore the one patch, a plain belt, and I followed his lead. 

I generally wore no stripes before 6th, and didn't wear those all the time because I felt I needed to learn so much more and was self conscious about such a lofty rank. (I seem to remember Dennis Conatser seeing my 6th striped belt in my bag at Mr. Parker house at a session we were having, and he asked me why I didn't wear it instead of the plain belt I had on.)

I HATED the "Official IKKA Uniform" that could have as many as 6 patches on it BEFORE you went to the Internationals and started lining patches down your arm or leg.

But when Mr. Parker wore it, so did I. Guess what? He hated it too, but it was a part of marketing. He only wore it when he taught in public. he knew everybody wanted to see that belt with all those stripes. "Wowwww that's Mr. Parker." Of course you had to wear the system patch, association rocker, school rocker, name rocker, universal, and eternal flame and your belt stripes. After all Ed Parker wore it when he came. Mr. Parker was even working on another system patch to trasnsition people into the IKKA.

Then there were the creative specialized uniforms some came up with to be distinctive, with red piping for black belts, green piping for green belts, brown piping for brown. 

One well known black belt had these really AWFUL bell bottom uniform pants with an embroidered and lacy split at the bottom. (I can't seem to remember his name  for a fee) and he had this Chuck Norris "helmet" hairdo and these long mutton chop sideburns. What a hippie he was. The black guys hair when up and the white guys hair went down. Peace baby and "free the Jackson Five." (except Tito)

The commercial revolution created loads of patches, insignias (including Budweiser), stripes, bells, whistles, bell bottoms, embroidery, lace trim, names, headbands, sticks, sticks with string, knives, stars, masks, T-shirts, pockets, elastic, polyester, psychodelic prints, foot pads, hand pads, head pads, nut pads, knee pads, shin pads,  arm pads, bags, boom boxes, smoke, mirrors, music, flags, sunglasses, hats, jewelry, necklaces, tournaments, grandmasters, Great grandmasters, super duper grandmasters, sifu's, sensei's, his holiness, touch knockouts, no touch knockouts, chi, ki,  car ki, house ki, trunk ki, pass ki, hotel ki, etc.

Awww forget it, I gotta go.........


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## hatamotoyoshi (Apr 2, 2003)

yeah i went from one system to another , in the first i had a green belt with 3 black stripes to show i was ready to grade for blue.
then in the system i went over to a green was higher than a blue 
so i ended up with a blue belt no stripes but i'm on to advanced blue now so i get a black stripe.
really i'm ready for a different kind of belt....
involving two fingers of whiskey and a couple of ice cubes:rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatamotoyoshi _
> *yeah i went from one system to another , in the first i had a green belt with 3 black stripes to show i was ready to grade for blue.
> then in the system i went over to a green was higher than a blue
> so i ended up with a blue belt no stripes but i'm on to advanced blue now so i get a black stripe.
> ...



I'll drink to that:cheers:


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## brianhunter (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> *Competition for business has also driven ranks unneccessarily upward. Consumers asked dumb questions. "You're a 5th, but the guy down the street is a 6th so he's better right?" :shrug:
> 
> I came through the era when Mr. Parker and most didn't wear stripes, nor did the uniform have a lot of markings. Plain belt, plain white uniform. I looked at an old sparring session with Joe Lewis and we looked sooooo "plain." Two patches were considered gawdy and in poor taste. Ed Parker only wore the one patch, a plain belt, and I followed his lead.
> ...



Man every time you old timers ramble on I learn something LOL please feel free to have another "senior" moment at any time :asian:


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## Doc (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by brianhunter _
> *Man every time you old timers ramble on I learn something LOL please feel free to have another "senior" moment at any time :asian: *



Hey what are you talkin' about? I'm not having any kind of a senior moment. That's insulting and totally wrong. Why I have you know.... that......I uh,.... I uh, ....I uh, I......................

What were we talking about?


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _*
> I'll drink to that:cheers:
> *



But then again, you'll drink to ANYTHING!!:drinkbeer 

:rofl:


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## Rob_Broad (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *But then again, you'll drink to ANYTHING!!:drinkbeer
> 
> :rofl: *



I will drink to anything but the clubbin of baby seals....
They should wait til they are the legal age in their country to go out clubbin.:rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _*
> Probably this should be the norm. Of course exceptions are always there. A good sixth or 7th should be just like yourself, age wise and knowledge wise. We've got people in diapers running around wearing these ranks right now.LOL
> 
> I have always admired you for your patience and consideration.
> :asian: *



Well, at this point, I pretty much hit the norm of this chart oddly enough     Yes, there are some out there that are quite  young and wearing some mighty high ranks I agree.  There are also those that boast of multi black belts... some have 5,6 7,8 or more ranks {and not just 1 -4 degrees either ..... some are high ranks} in several different systems and are in their late 30's or early 40's..... go figure..... either the systems are weak or there is the old good ole' boy promotions going on.:rofl:   I don't know who they are trying to fool [well, yes I do..... the newbie's or lower ranked students], but don't they realize that it is a bit silly to claim all these ranks and expect to be good at "ALL" of them?  It defies my personal logic or I need to know what I am missing.

Thank you for the kind words.  I am very proud of my lineage and past instruction, which has not always been the easiest road with the likes of Mr./s Coots, Swan, LaBounty, or Parker, but certainly has taught me to pass on Strong Basics, Knowledge, Reality, Logic, and to keep the Quality High at all costs!  again, thank you.

:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Doc _*
> Hey! Just because a person wears a diaper, doesn't mean they're young. I wouldn't be caught dead with a diaper on.......... Wait. !
> *



You don't have to worry........ I now have invented .......... :idea: MANPONS!   :rofl:


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## Chronuss (Apr 2, 2003)

hey, I saw that Man Show episode...     :rofl:


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## RCastillo (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *A brief historical review of the EPAK "red stripes" actually reveal that he decided to place the stripes on belts back when the system was in the early stages [Late '60's] to let people see and know that there were advanced ranks developing in Kenpo and to distinguish the new {during that time period} Ed Parker System from others.  Many Martial Arts Systems believe that the show of rank on belts {stripes of any kind} or sashes are an arrogant and distasteful public "show off" of authority and not a humble attribute that any black belt should demonstrate.
> 
> History may be in process of repeating itself.  We might be close to reverting back soon, and wear NO rank on belts or face the embarrassment of public ridicule if you do wear a belt full of red as if to say.......
> ...



I'm keeping mine, I worked like a dog for it. If a General can wear his Stars, then I'm wearing my rank!:asian:


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## Doc (Apr 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *You don't have to worry........ I now have invented .......... :idea: MANPONS!   :rofl: *


Manpons? I'm really afraid to ask where you put them. The other day I couldn't figure out where my earing aid was, - until I found a suppository in my ear.


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## jeffkyle (Apr 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Doc _
> *Manpons? I'm really afraid to ask where you put them. The other day I couldn't figure out where my earing aid was, - until I found a suppository in my ear. *




Too much information Doc!  :barf:


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## brianhunter (Apr 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rob_Broad _
> *I will drink to anything but the clubbin of baby seals....
> They should wait til they are the legal age in their country to go out clubbin.:rofl: *



Okay quick joke for ya......

A baby seal walks into a club


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## kenpo3631 (Apr 3, 2003)

I look at it this way. It's not the belt that makes you a  good Kenpoist it's the knowledge you retain. 

Personally I wear a plain black belt. I know what degree I am and if someone asks I'll tell them. To me it is about learning the art, not the number of stripes on my belt.

:asian:


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Apr 3, 2003)

Your belt is just a belt. You should, of course, be able to throw it away if need be, but it is alright to be happy with your accomplishments.

Another reason for stripes is to show black belts in your own system who you don't see often (different cities, etc.) where you fit in the "hierarchy." At formal events, it wouldn't do to treat a third or fourth like a fellow second because you haven't seen them for so long you forgot they tested up. You should treat everyone with respect, obviously, but to put on the good publice display, you have to know who salutes first and who speaks when, etc.


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## Mark L (Apr 4, 2003)

So, what's the difference between those wearing high rank?  Is it objective (all 8th's know more and apply their knowledge better than all 7th's), or is it subjective (promoted because of politics, affilliation, a**-kissing).  No offense intended, I'm genuinely curious about what separates high ranks.  The school I'm at is run by a 5th, and the difference in skill and knowledge between the various dan ranks are pretty obvious.


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## kenpo3631 (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mark L _
> *So, what's the difference between those wearing high rank?  Is it objective (all 8th's know more and apply their knowledge better than all 7th's), or is it subjective (promoted because of politics, affilliation, a**-kissing).  No offense intended, I'm genuinely curious about what separates high ranks.  The school I'm at is run by a 5th, and the difference in skill and knowledge between the various dan ranks are pretty obvious. *



where do you study and who is the instructor? I a from MA too.


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## Elfan (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mark L _
> *So, what's the difference between those wearing high rank?  Is it objective (all 8th's know more and apply their knowledge better than all 7th's), or is it subjective (promoted because of politics, affilliation, a**-kissing).  No offense intended, I'm genuinely curious about what separates high ranks.  The school I'm at is run by a 5th, and the difference in skill and knowledge between the various dan ranks are pretty obvious. *



Its generally subjective.  However, someone who is  a 5th or whatever *should* be moving better now then when he was a 4th.

Does anyone know of any organizations (not necesarily EPAK) that have clear requirerments for higher degree black belts (ie 5th+)?


----------



## cdhall (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Crazy Chihuahua _
> *Your belt is just a belt. You should, of course, be able to throw it away if need be, but it is alright to be happy with your accomplishments.
> 
> Another reason for stripes is to show black belts in your own system who you don't see often (different cities, etc.) where you fit in the "hierarchy." At formal events, it wouldn't do to treat a third or fourth like a fellow second because you haven't seen them for so long you forgot they tested up. You should treat everyone with respect, obviously, but to put on the good publice display, you have to know who salutes first and who speaks when, etc. *



I think this is basically it.  Rank is your instructors opinion of you so if you are not with your instructor or fellow students then the rank has different meaning.

If you wear your rank in such a crowd, it establishes the pecking order.

If you wear your rank in a TV commercial, it is you showing everyone how good you are with your stuff/what your instructor thinks of you...

If you wear your belt to go shopping at the Grocery or the Mall it means that you are delerious.  

I wrote somewhere on the site about Rank and Position.  Wearing your rank amongst a group of "others" doesn't serve the purpose Mr. Parker outlined in Infinite Insights.  

Personally, I am not likely going to ever have to worry about wearing a Bar or 5 stripes, but a bar is prescribed for that rank if Mr. Duffy gives it to me.

And since Mr. Parker finally endorsed the belt ranking system as a motivation and training aid, then you should be proud of your rank and wear it when you are called upon to do so.

If I'm not mistaken in the NCKKA a black belt could wear a Black Belt as they wished, but at formal NCKKA functions you had to wear your properly striped belt.  Mr. Duffy mentioned once that he had a "formal" belt for those banquets and stuff.  This seems logical to me as described above because it is only in such a setting that your "degree of black belt" has proper meaning.

I have more silly opinions but I agree with Crazy Chihuahua and Mr. C on this, you should be proud of your rank and there are times when you should wear it.

Oh, I was also going to say that not wearing your stripes would seem to indicate that you are insecure about them or embarassed by them.  I know I've heard that Mr. Planas recently "accepted" a 10th from somewhere and that he was very reluctant to take a 9th before that. I think he has now gone to wearing a plain black belt.

And if you look at some of the pictures on Mr. LaBounty's website, he tucks his belt in so that no stripes show at all.  Just a black belt.

Maybe this is evidence of some of the Seniors going back to "basic black."

I also don't think I've seen a picture of Mr. C with his 5th or 6th stripes on.  I think at Seig's seminar he had just a plain black belt.

So there are 3 guys who seem to be in favor of wearing just a black belt, at least when in mixed company as it were.

I know Mr. C didn't have stripes on in the picture I got with him at camp last year partially because his promotion was recent.

When I see Mr. Planas next weekend (for my first seminar with him) I'll notice what belt he is wearing, but it would probably not be a good idea for me to ask him about this topic off the bat.  I have not seen him since I interviewed him for the Homecoming Video.  But if he brings it up, I'll probably follow up with a question.


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cdhall _
> *I have more silly opinions but I agree with Crazy Chihuahua and Mr. C on this, you should be proud of your rank and there are times when you should wear it.*



Agreed here as well.



> I also don't think I've seen a picture of Mr. C with his 5th or 6th stripes on.



There are very few pictures on peoples websites. You'll need to spend time searching I guess. 




> When I see Mr. Planas next weekend (for my first seminar with him) I'll notice what belt he is wearing,



It will be a plain black one with a lot of gray.



> If you wear your belt to go shopping at the Grocery or the Mall it means that you are delerious.



One of my biggest pet peeves. (sigh)

As far as I'm concerned on the topic at hand people can wear what they wish. At a seminar though I would prefer to see people with stripes just to give an idea where they should be at material wise. In class I could care less if anyone wore a belt at all. Just my couple of pennies.


----------



## hatamotoyoshi (Apr 4, 2003)

well i am proud of my belts,
kanzen, e-pak,even my generic orange from an unrecognized system.
i certainly hope some of the awarding is for knowledge,
as i am getting older and to ask me to "move" with the speed and strength i had as a youngman,well it ain't gonna happen.
still at gradings i'm always surprised at what i can still do.
hopefully technique can help me with my (gradual i hope)
decline in physical ability.
           keep smilin  yoshi:asian:


----------



## Kirk (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jfarnsworth _
> *It will be a plain black one with a lot of gray.*



Of the 3 Huk seminars I've attended, this was true in the first
two.  At the last one just 2 months ago, he was sporting a brand
new black belt, no stripes.  He had a majorly cool gi on, which had
a HUGE embroidered "huk patch" on the back.  He said someone
in Canada hand made it, and gave it to him as a gift.  I'd be willing
to bet, that if Huk were given one with stripes as a gift, he'd wear
it.  Huk's cool that way.  He truly thinks the world of his students,
just as they think the world of him.


----------



## D.Cobb (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> **Quirks a Brow* *



Is your avatar an actual photo of you?

If so,*YOWSER* 

--Dave
:asian:


----------



## jfarnsworth (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Of the 3 Huk seminars I've attended, this was true in the first
> two.  At the last one just 2 months ago, he was sporting a brand
> new black belt, no stripes.   *



He He:rofl: ,
Maybe he had to retire that old thing finally. I haven't seen him since last Aug. I believe. Anyway it looked as if it were being held together by a few threads.


----------



## KenpoTess (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Is your avatar an actual photo of you?
> 
> If so,YOWSER
> ...



Yep..that's me


----------



## RCastillo (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *Yep..that's me  *



Yes, beautiful, but deadly.......pick your poison carefully!

The Queen of Pain!


----------



## Seig (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Yes, beautiful, but deadly.......pick your poison carefully!
> 
> The Queen of Pain! *


Excuse me, but that would be _*MY*_ poison.


----------



## RCastillo (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Excuse me, but that would be MY poison. *



Yes, quite true, and you have the "Antidote!"


----------



## Seig (Apr 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> *Yes, quite true, and you have the "Antidote!" *


Antidote is not the right word, "OnTessIdote" would be more accurate.


----------



## Kroy (Apr 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kenmpoka _
> *Not only they are looked down upon, but they also look cheap an ugly.I vote for getting rid of them. And please don't replace them wih stars.
> 
> :asian: *



I would agree to keep the stripes, there are so many styles of martial arts out there and the red stripes really sets us apart from the rest.:wavey:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 6, 2003)

thinking of putting "dragon claws" on instead of stripes!   For me that would look cooooooooool!!

:boing2:


----------



## Doc (Apr 18, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> A brief historical review of the EPAK "red stripes" actually reveal that he decided to place the stripes on belts back when the system was in the early stages [Late '60's] to let people see and know that there were advanced ranks developing in Kenpo and to distinguish the new {during that time period} Ed Parker System from others.  Many Martial Arts Systems believe that the show of rank on belts {stripes of any kind} or sashes are an arrogant and distasteful public "show off" of authority and not a humble attribute that any black belt should demonstrate.
> 
> History may be in process of repeating itself.  We might be close to reverting back soon, and wear NO rank on belts or face the embarrassment of public ridicule if you do wear a belt full of red as if to say.......
> "Hey! ! !  look at me, the Ultimate Great Grandmaster Super Pu Ba Lord High Mocus Mega High Pinnacle Paramount Awesome Stupendous Solitary Instructor of all that have ever breathed on this planet!  [did I get them all in?]:rofl:
> ...



As I recall Dennis when we first met I wasn't wearing stripes. I came up without them. I also hated all the patches the Old Man came up with for the IKKA uniform. For me it was no stripes and one patch at the most. I put them on when he looked at me funny when we were going for a session at West LA. I knew what he meant and why. When he passed it wasn't long before I took them off again. We don't wear them except at the request of someone for a picture. Even he didn't wear them until he was 7th as the organization grew.


----------



## Drifter (Apr 18, 2005)

What if we did an 'inverted' stripe system?

 In other words:

 New Rank-Stripes according to current Method
 1st-10th
 2nd-9th
 3rd-8th
 4th-7th
 5th-6th
 6th-5th
 7th-4th
 8th-3rd
 9th-2nd
 10th-1st

 It might help transition people out of the 'tiger' stage. The fact that they would go from wearing a brown belt to a black belt with 2 Bars might be a wake up call to people, moreso than a black belt with 1 stripe. It would be a visual reminder to people of how much they still have to work, and how much they have to live up to. The whole process would be a little more humbling. Maybe it's just a stupid idea after all, I don't know.


----------



## Bill Lear (Apr 18, 2005)

Drifter said:
			
		

> What if we did an 'inverted' stripe system?
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...


Steve Spry has already done something like this. I saw him and his people at Bryan Hawkins' U.K.S. tournament in West Los Angeles. Boy... was it hard trying to figure out what everyone's rank was without asking them.


----------



## Ray (Apr 18, 2005)

I was wondering how the particular striping system was selected (1 for first, 2 for second, etc to 5 where a bar is used; bar + 1 for 6, bar + 2 for 7th, etc to 9; and two bars for 10th).

I wondered if it was analogous to Roman (or other) number system.  I also thought that Parker was in the Coast Guard(?) and noticed in my Funk & Wagnells that some officer insignias in the Navy went 1 to 4 stripes, followed by a bar.  

Does anyone know the real reason?  I'm curious.  It's such a silly thing to wonder about, isn't it?


----------



## Doc (Apr 18, 2005)

Bill Lear said:
			
		

> Steve Spry has already done something like this. I saw him and his people at Bryan Hawkins' U.K.S. tournament in West Los Angeles. Boy... was it hard trying to figure out what everyone's rank was without asking them.


Great! So everyone will running around with the same bars that Parker wore until they make 2nd. You need a reminder of how much you don't know? Getting dropped in class should take care of that.


----------



## Kenpodoc (Apr 18, 2005)

Personally i like plain black belts for regular wear. I don't mind the show belts for formal occasions but I usually judge by what I see not by what they wear.  If I don't respect someone I don't care if they wear 4 red bars with gold stars and purple spirals.  If I respect them, i'd still respect them with a black leather JC Penney belt.

Personally i like my plain black belt because it gets me better partners at seminars.  Otherwise, it's just a belt and I'm still a beginner.

Jeff


----------



## dubljay (Apr 18, 2005)

An interesting bit of history I must say I have enjoyed reading this thread.  

  I personally don't care much for stripes on belts (or patches for that matter).  Each serve their purpose I suppose.

 I think the best display of time put into the arts is a plain black belt that has been worn out and is fading to white. I people running around with brand new belts that have all their stripes sew onto them and their rank is clear to see, but not the time and effort in the art (in some cases of course) and then I look at a person that has a black belt worn white on the tails and where the knot is tied, and while it is hard to tell what rank of black belt they are the time and effort put into the art is very clear.

  Just my opinion and I could be wrong

  -Josh


----------



## Doc (Apr 18, 2005)

Kenpodoc said:
			
		

> Personally i like plain black belts for regular wear. I don't mind the show belts for formal occasions but I usually judge by what I see not by what they wear.  If I don't respect someone I don't care if they wear 4 red bars with gold stars and purple spirals.  If I respect them, i'd still respect them with a black leather JC Penney belt.
> 
> Personally i like my plain black belt because it gets me better partners at seminars.  Otherwise, it's just a belt and I'm still a beginner.
> 
> Jeff


Are'nt we all?


----------



## Doc (Apr 18, 2005)

dubljay said:
			
		

> An interesting bit of history I must say I have enjoyed reading this thread.
> 
> I personally don't care much for stripes on belts (or patches for that matter).  Each serve their purpose I suppose.
> 
> ...



Well I agree. However I've been around long enough to see guys instead of wearing a bunch of stripes, they would bleach and wash their belts, cut the edges with a razor blade, and even drag it behind their car to get that "worn" look. You name it, and someone will find a way to take advantage. When I ran the Internationals for Mr. Parker, I had tons of offers to "buy" an IKC Trophy, "just for display as a momento." Yeah, right!


----------



## kenposikh (Apr 19, 2005)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> I may be speaking out of place here as I am not yet a black belt but I think it would be a decent idea to "revert".  Black Belt, while very important, is still a learning stage, right?  I would not have a problem with wearing a plain black belt with no adornment what so ever.




That would mess up those people who love to befriend people simply because of their rank


----------



## Seabrook (Apr 19, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Well I agree. However I've been around long enough to see guys instead of wearing a bunch of stripes, they would bleach and wash their belts, cut the edges with a razor blade, and even drag it behind their car to get that "worn" look.


Funny Doc, I was just going to mention that but you beat me to the punch. I know a guy who was an intermediate rank when all of a sudden a couple of years later, it looked like his black belt had gone through hell's fire and back. 

Hee, hee.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


----------



## dubljay (Apr 21, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Well I agree. However I've been around long enough to see guys instead of wearing a bunch of stripes, they would bleach and wash their belts, cut the edges with a razor blade, and even drag it behind their car to get that "worn" look. You name it, and someone will find a way to take advantage. When I ran the Internationals for Mr. Parker, I had tons of offers to "buy" an IKC Trophy, "just for display as a momento." Yeah, right!


















 Thank you Doc, you really have destroyed my faith in humanity. *sigh* well to be fair its not your fault sir, I really shouldn't be surprised. I guess this goes to show that martial arts really isn't for everyone.


----------



## Goldendragon7 (Apr 21, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> I had tons of offers to "buy" an IKC Trophy, "just for display as a momento." Yeah, right!


 Hey....... I got one!  and didn't have to pay nada!!  well (I did have to fight a bit)..:ultracool


----------



## Bill Lear (Apr 21, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> Hey....... I got one! and didn't have to pay nada!! well (I did have to fight a bit)..:ultracool


I've got one too! The fighting was the fun part!


----------



## rattlerbrat (Apr 24, 2005)

I don't think there's anything wrong with the stripes. What's next? Are we going to take rank away from military personnel? 

 Though I admit - that "destroying my black belt to make it look more worn" story is hilarious. I've had my bluestripe for nearly a year (part laziness, part injuries), and the bottom is all unraveled and the ends are so low that they basically scrape the bottom. It's a sign of hard work...but it's also a sign that I need to get off my rear, get serious and test to green!


----------



## dubljay (Apr 24, 2005)

rattlerbrat said:
			
		

> I don't think there's anything wrong with the stripes. What's next? Are we going to take rank away from military personnel?
> 
> Though I admit - that "destroying my black belt to make it look more worn" story is hilarious. I've had my bluestripe for nearly a year (part laziness, part injuries), and the bottom is all unraveled and the ends are so low that they basically scrape the bottom. It's a sign of hard work...but it's also a sign that I need to get off my rear, get serious and test to green!


 You are right rattlerbrat, there is nothing inherently wrong with displaying rank stripes on a belt, however there are many out there that are taking it to extremes.


----------



## rattlerbrat (Apr 24, 2005)

Oh, you mean the black belts with stripes, hearts, stars and clovers on their belts? 

 I just get a little irritated at the thought that we Kenpoists shouldn't be proud of what we've accomplished. I understand we're supposed to be humble, and it's not the belt, it's the (wo)man who wears it and all. But I've noticed that a lot of people who shun the stripes (not here, just in general) tend to bring up 'the old way'. _"Well, when IIIIIII was a young student - back when Jesus and I were buddies - we never wore stripes! And we ran seven miles! Uphill! Both ways! In the SNOW! With no shoes on! And we had to get flexible by having our legs ripped at both sides! And..."_ It's like hearing bad war stories. Okay, I get it. You're old school studying in the new school. But you know what? In the OLD, old days, people didn't even wear _gis_, women couldn't train and the injury level was astronomically high. So let's give a loud _kiai!_ for a little bit of updating of the system, okay? 

 Yes, I'll display my belts...in my home. And I'll proudly wear my belt...at the dojo. I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as you carry yourself in a humble manner. (Our dojo is across the street from the mall, and any time we run across the street for lunch, the belts come off!) Not to mention the fact that the difference between a shodan, a nidan and a sandan tend to be very, very vast - and I'm sure our high-ranking black belts here will probably agree! We need some sort of way to show the seperation, in my opinion.


----------



## Kenpobuff (May 6, 2005)

Great thread.

Colors and stripes are necessary in class situations for the instructor's benefit.  For tournament participants colors should be worn for under black.  Above black stripes are optional...depending on ego.  Official functions, wear a tie with the black GI affair, lol.

At last year's Inland Empire MA Tourn. Skip Hancock as organizer wore no stripes and sported only an old grey belt.  Just as he referenced in the book "The Journey".  The only one of the honorees in the book that claimed no rank after Mr. Parker's passing.  I'm not supporting or disagreeing with his decision, just an observation.

My two stripes worth.

Steve


----------



## JenniM (May 10, 2005)

Red Stripes....well I'm still a newbie to Kenpo compared to some of you guys, having started out in 1981 - in between breaks in training for "life events" I eventually graded to 1st Black in 2000 - yeah I know a long time.... and I was just so damn pleased to get that little red stripe on my belt - it was a tremendously personal journey for me and marked a huge achievement and a tough all day grading - I know I'd worked for it, earnt it and was proud to wear it - having said that some five years later having earnt two more red stripes -  I am now starting my SL4 Kenpo journey and am quite happy to revert back to a plain black belt - hey it holds your Gi together, as long as you know where you're at - retain your humility and respect for others you can't go far wrong - and yes I do wear my stripes as well - I'm proud of them!!


----------



## Doc (May 10, 2005)

JenniM said:
			
		

> Red Stripes....well I'm still a newbie to Kenpo compared to some of you guys, having started out in 1981 - in between breaks in training for "life events" I eventually graded to 1st Black in 2000 - yeah I know a long time.... and I was just so damn pleased to get that little red stripe on my belt - it was a tremendously personal journey for me and marked a huge achievement and a tough all day grading - I know I'd worked for it, earnt it and was proud to wear it - having said that some five years later having earnt two more red stripes -  I am now starting my SL4 Kenpo journey and am quite happy to revert back to a plain black belt - hey it holds your Gi together, as long as you know where you're at - retain your humility and respect for others you can't go far wrong - and yes I do wear my stripes as well - I'm proud of them!!


Her Majesty may wear anything she chooses.


----------



## kenpo_cory (May 10, 2005)

Personally I never even cared to have a black belt. The knowledge yes, the belt, who cares. But I cant learn all the 2nd black techiques until I obtain my black belt. But I guess there's a formal test for a reason right? My instructor has been telling me ive been ready for black belt for a while now. I just like the dissapointed look on people's faces when they ask me if im a black belt and I say no.


----------



## Michael Billings (May 10, 2005)

JenniM - congrats on your belt and welcome to the club.  It ain't hard to stay humble, all you have to do is get out on the mats and see what is out there.

 Keepin' it Kenpo,
 -Michael


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## OZman (May 10, 2005)

I woud be in favour (yes Oz spelling) of getting rid of all the stuff off the uniform..nice plain black uniform with a 4" crest. Simple clean and direct, just like Kenpo.


----------



## Doc (May 10, 2005)

OZman said:
			
		

> I woud be in favour (yes Oz spelling) of getting rid of all the stuff off the uniform..nice plain black uniform with a 4" crest. Simple clean and direct, just like Kenpo.


Me too. In fact that is what our uniforms used to look like "back in the day." Then the Old Man went International Commercial followed by; stripes on the belts, crest on the chest, name over the crest, association on the shoulder, universal on the shoulder, school on the shoulder, IKC on the chest, AND some wise guy otta Arizona even had red piped bell bottoms. Can you believe that? What the hell was he thinking? Give me the good old days, (Before the bell bottoms and mutton chop sideburns)


----------



## OZman (May 10, 2005)

Yes, but; you can never tell about folks from AZ, those guys are animals. They love lots of cool looking stuff on their uniforms. I bet he would even like the crest and our names embroidered on the back. :uhyeah:


----------



## Goldendragon7 (May 11, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> AND some wise guy otta Arizona even had red piped bell bottoms. Can you believe that? What the hell was he thinking? Give me the good old days, (Before the bell bottoms and mutton chop sideburns)


 


			
				OZman said:
			
		

> I woud be in favour (yes Oz spelling) of getting rid of all the stuff off the uniform..nice plain black uniform with a 4" crest. Simple clean and direct, just like Kenpo.


 ok now *BOTH* of you are in trouble and will have to pay the price.......


----------



## OZman (May 11, 2005)

Well, you can't argue with all that charm and beauty. You see, we all secretly aspire to look as good as the GD. I mean I would like to look like Clyde, but that wood make me fat and hairy, I'm afraid of the public reaction.


----------



## JenniM (May 11, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> Her Majesty may wear anything she chooses.


 remind me to bestow a Knighthood upon you !!


----------



## Doc (May 11, 2005)

JenniM said:
			
		

> remind me to bestow a Knighthood upon you !!


Yes, your Majesty.


----------



## Doc (May 11, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> ok now *BOTH* of you are in trouble and will have to pay the price.......


So uhhhhhhh, who's the geek with the funny haircut and bell bottom gi pants?


----------



## JenniM (May 11, 2005)

Michael Billings said:
			
		

> JenniM - congrats on your belt and welcome to the club. It ain't hard to stay humble, all you have to do is get out on the mats and see what is out there.
> 
> Keepin' it Kenpo,
> -Michael


Thanks Michael totally agree - that's what keeps you grounded and I'm out there all the time


----------



## Simon Curran (May 11, 2005)

It's not exactly an issue for me at the moment...

However, I have no problem seeing someone wearing a striped belt which they have earned, but for me, personal preference would just be a plain belt, out of modesty, and acceptance that I will always be a student.


----------



## Seabrook (May 11, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> ok now *BOTH* of you are in trouble and will have to pay the price.......


Dennis,

Those photos don't scare me brotha.....I'll just hit you over the head with a baseball bat when you are not looking and the run as fast as my short little legs can move. 

Hee, hee.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com


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## Dark Kenpo Lord (May 11, 2005)

OZman said:
			
		

> Well, you can't argue with all that charm and beauty. You see, we all secretly aspire to look as good as the GD. I mean I would like to look like Clyde, but that wood make me fat and hairy, I'm afraid of the public reaction.


 FAT?   Explain your idea of fat at 6' 205 lbs.   with a 44" chest.

DarK LorD


----------



## Seabrook (May 11, 2005)

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
			
		

> FAT? Explain your idea of fat at 6' 205 lbs. with a 44" chest.
> 
> DarK LorD


Clyde,

I saw your Delayed Sword video, and pictures on your website. You look strong, big, and tough as he&* to me! Kudos to you for letting yourself be known across the globe and not being afraid to show your kenpo. Can't wait for LV baby! 

BTW - I am 5'6, 160 lbs, so on paper, I don't have a chance at our friendly Las Vegas sparring match. But if I had to choose, I predict that I will come out on top. 


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

P.S. Is the seminar that you are teaching the black belts sparring based or were you plannng on self-defense techniques? Should be fun either way.


----------



## OZman (May 11, 2005)

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
			
		

> FAT?   Explain your idea of fat at 6' 205 lbs.   with a 44" chest.
> 
> DarK LorD




Clyde,

Relax man, I am the fat one, you're the hairy one...jeez


----------



## kenposikh (May 11, 2005)

KenpoGirl said:
			
		

> Seems to me if all the black belts were a solid black belts the only way you'd know if a person had more knowledge skill than another is by example, ie on the mat.




Hi Dot good to see you on the forum, how are things?

Anyway I would just like to raise one point and that is this.

We all agree that on the mats is the best place to test a persons skill and knowledge agreed. However take the following situation

A person who has trained in an art for say 40 years and has attained the highest rank possible through sheer hard work guts determination and gathering of knowledge over the years, is now in the unfortunate situation where they have become physically disabled, they can no longer perform on the mats but should the wealth of their knowledge no be discarded cos they can't prove it in a one to one or one to many situation.

Having said that you could have a disabled person who has done nothing but study the arts either visually or on paper and knows what is expected just he cannot perform now he cannot get rank because he cannot prove physically what he knows or can he get rank?

Just a couple of questions what do people think?


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## Sigung86 (May 11, 2005)

Those pictures scared the H*** out of me and stunted me out of 10 years growth Dennis!

Insofar as rank ...  Rank, itself, is a nebulous thing.  The true spirit of the rank system is the respect you give to your "elders".  Thus you have the titles of both respect and affection.  For example, I could never call Doc Chapél, "Master", but I will always call him Doc, and that phrase, for me, carries more respect and affection for the man than any "rank" that he will ever have bestowed on him.  Kind of like all the first stringers calling SGM Parker, "Old Man".

Dennis, on the other hand, needs to go back to the red-rimmed gi pants.  
 :uhyeah: 

Rank is such a fleeting thing that is easily bestowed and taken away, and in the end it is the knowledge that counts.  Actually, it counts even more than ability.  As we get older, infirmed or otherwise, we all lose physical ability to some degree or other, but the knowledge will be there until we aren't.  

Beside that ... If you get too out of hand and disrespectful of the rank involved, you may always run the risk of a rap on the beak.   :rofl:


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2005)

JenniM said:
			
		

> remind me to bestow a Knighthood upon you !!


 
 Ohhhhhhh Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 :anic:   :barf:  :anic:

 One Black Knight in history under Arthur is _*enough*_!

 :jedi1:


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2005)

Doc said:
			
		

> So uhhhhhhh, who's the geek with the funny haircut and bell bottom gi pants?


 
 Some guy named Chape'ls..... his brother

 :ultracool


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## JenniM (May 12, 2005)

Goldendragon7 said:
			
		

> Ohhhhhhh Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
> 
> :anic: :barf: :anic:
> 
> ...


Hey...   Sir Percy of Scandia (alias the Black Knight) was an imposter with blond hair and blue eyes  - its time we had a REAL one!!!:jediduel:Its been a long time since we last chatted on the IM Mr Conatser.:wavey:


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## Simon Curran (May 12, 2005)

JenniM said:
			
		

> Hey... Sir Percy of Scandia (alias the Black Knight) was an imposter with blond hair and blue eyes - its time we had a REAL one!!!:jediduel:Its been a long time since we last chatted on the IM Mr Conatser.:wavey:


Scandia probably means Scandinavia, so it kinda makes sense really...


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2005)

JenniM said:
			
		

> Hey...   Sir Percy of Scandia (alias the Black Knight) was an imposter with blond hair and blue eyes.


 _*Caution*_ *!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's the same guy!!!!!    (don't let his disguise fool you)*




			
				JenniM said:
			
		

> Its been a long time since we last chatted on the IM Mr Conatser.:wavey:


 Yes, too long......  Hope all is well!!

 :asian:


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## KenpoTess (May 12, 2005)

kenposikh said:
			
		

> Hi Dot good to see you on the forum, how are things?




Pssst.. Look at the date posted by Dot.. was 2 yrs ago~!!


Speaking of Red Piping.. I sure hope you don't expect us to have it on our Gi's by the time we go to Sydney next month Mr. C. ~!!!


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## Goldendragon7 (May 12, 2005)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Speaking of Red Piping.. I sure hope you don't expect us to have it on our Gi's by the time we go to Sydney next month Mr. C. ~!!!


 Of course I do!~


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## KenpoTess (May 12, 2005)

oh bother.. sure hope I get my juka in time~! Cuz that's a whole lotta stitching~!


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## kenposikh (May 12, 2005)

KenpoTess said:
			
		

> Pssst.. Look at the date posted by Dot.. was 2 yrs ago~!!
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## kenposikh (May 12, 2005)

I'm getting tired and need a break I can't even quote things properly now.


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## KenpoTess (May 12, 2005)

kenposikh said:
			
		

> I'm getting tired and need a break I can't even quote things properly now.



*being quiet* 

Do you hit the 'quote' button ?
The only thing that happened is the last quote isn't closed


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