# Modern Arnis, Open Warfare on Wikipedia!



## Bester (Dec 13, 2005)

:bird: 
Hey boys and girls, I got bored so I followed a link from Arnisador to this Wiki thing on Modern Arnis.  

Very interesting thing. Every time I go back the page is different.  Looks like a couple of political players keep revising things, stiring the pot and otherwise continuing to devalue any use of the service.

Shame on you. 

Why am I saying this here?  Because the losers doing it are using MartialTalk usernames. 

It just goes to show that the game playing continues, and rather than build something of value, that the small minds continue to piss on Remy's memory and rape his legacy just to make themselves look more important than they are.

To those ****ing around there, why don't you grow up and do something constructive, or is that something that is simply beyond you, either due to poor upbringing, substandard training, or simply being walking wastes of dna?

Modern Arnis, the Art without any Art!
Why worry about the Next Generation...the current seems set on self destruction.

To those actually trying to build something here, and honor his memory, from a historian who has enjoyed the recent information, baring a few comments, thank you. I mean this with all sincerity.

To those still playing the games, and you know who you are, I got 2 words for you.

Grow up.

I'm done, y'all keep playing your petty little games. I'll go look for an art without such petty mindedness and immaturity.


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## Tgace (Dec 13, 2005)

Why give it any more publicity here than it deserves??


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## Bester (Dec 13, 2005)

Because the individuals responsible for the continuing defacement of the arnis listings seem to be members of this site, and I figured that the low life, scum sucking, dishonorable, fart sniffing, pigs would like to have their contributions noticed by all.

It's the sort of action such pieces of crap would enjoy, as they wallow in their pettyness, contemptable cads that they are, hidding behind the illusion of anonimity...of course, since each revision is tracked, they can be identified.  Interestingly, the ones vandelizing the arnis entry are coming from the Western New York area.

So, any of you low life game playing **** tossers have enough guts to fess up?

I doubt it.  That would have required you to have some honor, something lacking in at least 2 of those vandals.

Of course, if they had any honor, they wouldn't be playing that game at all, now would they Tom?


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## Tgace (Dec 13, 2005)

Ya got a point there Bob.


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## Bester (Dec 13, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Ya got a point there Bob.


Well Paul, I guess your powers of observation aren't as good as they used to be. See, My name is Al, not Bob. But then again John, you may have missed that, or maybe you have just been too busy today to pay attention to the poster.  

That&#8217;s your problem George, see, you and your pal Ringo there, acting Mr. smooth. 

Lets do some Detective work here.  The 2 entries that are continually being played with are one for a certain Jerome Barber, and one for a certain Tim Hartman.  You are under Mr. Barber.  You have issues, with Tim Hartman. Someone from WNY, with issues is playing a game. Someone is making some of these edits as "Doxn4cer". "Doxn4cer" is also known as one of the 2 "Norshadows" on this board who along with a few other individuals was involved in a pissup with this Hartman.  Then there is someone posting as "Datu Puti" there, which for the memory impaired, new comers or flat out stupid people, is a former handle of Hartmans.

The link these low intellect types keep trying to post up there, points at an equally low IQ thread on the litter box board, populated by many individuals with issues, subscriptions even. Petty little degenerates who most likely sit around and wank to the thought of how they will next show their low evolutionary state to the world.

Now, Hartman is quite a few things. Egomaniac, Pretty Boy, attention whore, but I highly doubt even he would feel the need to whore for attention by posting to a bunch of substance less sour grapes by a bunch of anonymous and not so anonymous losers.

So, the question here is, who, in WNY, would do so?

Interestingly enough, I know how to find the answer.

Would you like me to tell you, Tim?

Or, should we see if you have the Spocks to come clean?

Never mind, I'll tell you.  That whole, one of us has to be above the pettiness.  Might as be me, going out on a blaze of glory, as opposed to the dung pile a few others wallow in.

Here's the last edit history from the Hartman entry.  Who on MT has those IP's?  I wonder.

    * (cur) (last)  22:16, 13 December 2005 70.104.59.36 (Removed link (rv vandalism; this is a flame thread from Bulshido that is being brought here))
    * (cur) (last) 22:06, 13 December 2005 70.104.48.153 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 19:43, 13 December 2005 JJL (rv vandalism; this is a flame thread from Bulshido that is being brought here)
    * (cur) (last) 19:40, 13 December 2005 168.169.28.92 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 19:33, 13 December 2005 70.104.59.36 (?External links - Removed link to unreputable source, again)
    * (cur) (last) 19:16, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti
    * (cur) (last) 19:16, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti
    * (cur) (last) 18:03, 13 December 2005 70.104.59.36 (?External links - Removed link to unreliable resource)
    * (cur) (last) 17:54, 13 December 2005 168.169.88.166 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 17:01, 13 December 2005 Doxn4cer
    * (cur) (last) 17:00, 13 December 2005 70.104.59.36 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 16:47, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 16:37, 13 December 2005 70.104.59.36 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 16:32, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 16:18, 13 December 2005 68.64.199.20
    * (cur) (last) 01:54, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti
    * (cur) (last) 01:20, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 01:16, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti
    * (cur) (last) 01:03, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti
    * (cur) (last) 01:00, 13 December 2005 Datu Puti m (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 00:49, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 00:49, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 00:45, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 00:40, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 00:36, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45 (?External links)
    * (cur) (last) 00:34, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 00:34, 13 December 2005 71.243.137.45
    * (cur) (last) 15:29, 16 September 2005 JJL (created)

I bet, it's someone who has job problems, works in a small town, maybe even suffers from serious delusions of humanity.  Miserable, low life scum bags, who really, really, really need to grow up.

Wouldn't you agree Tom?


Hey MT Admins.  Before you put my sorry *** out to pasture, why don't you check those IPs. Lets see which Arnis posters have the small penis problems, once and for all.  I can die happy that way knowing I helped remove at least 1 degenerate scum sucking turd burgler from this site.

You wouldn't have a problem with that would you Tom? Being a defender of truth, justice and all that, right?


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## Guro Harold (Dec 13, 2005)

Mod Note:

Thread Closed and is under review.

-Palusut
MT Senior Moderator


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 13, 2005)

Thread reopened temporarily.


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Dec 13, 2005)

As many of you are aware, I have gone into semi-retirement from *MartialTalk* to put my efforts into a new project intended to benefit the FMA community. With help from Bob Hubbard I recently started a FMA discussion forum called www.FMATalk.com. The primary reason was that our community needs greater exposure for it to grow. 

Another reason, regrettably, is that this site has grown so much that it is sometimes too hard to police, making it a victim of its own success. Some actions have gone unchecked, and politcal maneuvering often dominates the discussions. As one of the founders of *MartialTalk*, it saddens me to see this.

It seems that another good resource has now been polluted with political nonsense. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Unfortunately two members who were banned from *FMATalk* have been editing the entries concerning me on the site. Fortunately, the site automatically records and displays the IP addresses of those who make these edits. Thus, it is a matter of public record who they are.

 The continuance of this matter on yet another Internet site is truly saddening to me. Part of starting FMAT is an attempt to get a fresh start on FMA discussions. I am trying to move forward, for all our sakes. Others continue their long arm tactics, however. I suppose that I should feel flattered that this group of people thinks that I am so important that they devote such a large amount of their time me. 

Im sharing this with both the staff and members here so that they are aware of the back story. I know that this behavior is not welcome on *MartialTalk*, and it will _not_ be tolerated on *FMATalk*. As far as the Wiki site goes, I dont care. I wouldnt have known about it if it werent for someone else informing me. I will be spending most of my time working on making *FMATalk* one of the leading FMA forums on the net. This will continue to mean that I will have little time to spend on *MartialTalk*. Im proud of my contributions to this site and grateful for the experiences I have had here and the opportunity I have had to meet a lot of great people.

 In case anyone was wondering who are the two people e-stalking me on the Wiki site are, matching IP addresses indicates that they are the following:

*loki09789*  Paul Martin
*G22* aka *Tgace* aka Tom Gerace.


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## Bester (Dec 13, 2005)

So people banned from your forum are doing this? 

Seems I was right.

So Tom, care to explain this?


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## Bester (Dec 13, 2005)

And the crapi-crapi that only the most elite modern arnis spinoffadors can achieve seem to continue.

Seems the children continue to battle, exchanging "Notable practitioners of Modern Arnis include Roland Dantes, Jeff Delaney, Tim Hartman, Shishir Inocalla, Dieter Knuettel, Remy P. Presas, Randi Schea, Tom Bolden, Doug Pierre, Bram Frank, Jerome Barber, Dan Andeson and Kelly Worden." for "Well-known practitioners of Modern Arnis include Dan Anderson, Roland Dantes, Jeff Delaney, Bram Frank, Tim Hartman, Shishir Inocalla, Dieter Knuettel, Remy P. Presas, Randi Schea, and Kelly Worden." with the deciding point being the argument between notable and well-known. I have to question the inclusion of individuals on a Modern Arnis entry of individuals who don't do Modern Arnis, or who were absent the last decade or so in the development of the art. There is also the poor spelling of the hamster crammer in question.

The entry for Jerome Barber has been deleted by Wiki admins.

Additional edits seem to focus on Hartmans promotions, with at least 1 additional entry having been removed by the Wikimins as being little more than an attack on him.

Other entries seem to also be seeing high-end review.

I'm somewhat uplifted, seeing that there is in fact someone in charge there, who will work to disallow such contemptuous and scumbag type behavior.


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## arnisador (Dec 14, 2005)

A recent case has caused them to make some changes in their procedures:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051212/ts_alt_afp/usinternetitwikipedia_051212192227

The 'prankster' has lost his job over this.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 14, 2005)

This is alot to digest. I'll reread it in the morning. 

The quick look at that, indicates that several MT members are in fact involved in the game playing there.


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## Tgace (Dec 14, 2005)

Hmmm..and what high crimes and misdemeanors am I exactly being accused of here? So I have added a few names to a list and added a link or two to an outside source on a couple of wiki pages. All of which exist independently of me and are factual. All I am within my rights to do on Wikipedia. Tell me what that has to do with any infraction of the rules here or there? &#8220;Defacement of the Arnis lineage&#8221;? give me a break. Where is there a lineage tree? All I see is a list of &#8220;notable practitioners&#8221; which is a subjective list if I ever saw one. All I see here are some people with their panties in a twist because they started something that they cannot contain. I think that some people have become so comfortable with running their little e-fiefdoms that the world tilts on its axis when something is happening outside their control. I no more have to answer for my internet actions outside of this forum to anybody here than I do the actions in my home.

PS- If ya feel like calling my place of employment again make sure you pronounce my name properly.


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## arnisador (Dec 14, 2005)

Tgace said:
			
		

> Hmmm..and what high crimes and misdemeanors am I exactly being accused of here?


 
Childishness.


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## Darkmoon (Dec 14, 2005)

As far as I know it's a public site for poeple to post what thwey think are facts. So everyone keeps adding to it. Any "facts" that you don't aggree with egnore. That's...that's it.


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## Bester (Dec 14, 2005)

I forget, following rules isn't something that you, or your group is very good at is it?

I believe it is violation of their terms of service?

Entry and link vandalism?

Notible practitioners? Give me a break. Some of those people you and your buddy there keep hacking in are nobodies, or people who left under less than stellal pretenses. Some don't even practice arnis anymore, being sokes and grandmasters of their own hybrids.

Your repeated attempts to elevate Barber to Godhood there have gotten his listing banned. Interesting that you were the only editor of his listing when it happened.

Your repeated attempts to link to a character defamation thread on a forum populated by ignorant children also doesn't belong.

You or your buddies most recent removal of all links from the WMAA and  Hartman entries stinks of petty revenge.

Your repeated attempts to push your personal vendetta against someone seems to me to be rather unbecoming of someone in your profession, but then again, maybe it's because I think that LEO should be above such petty games. 

But then again, in my time here I have seen you and yours continually play these games. Hiding in the shaddows, playing the martyr, and continuing to piss all over this site.

"He called my boss...so evil, pity me pity me". ********.
You were stealing taxpayer time, got caught, got busted for it. Man it up and move on. There are department policies about that. A simple phone call will solve many questions, one I made. One doesn't need complex IP's to match people and times up, then look at a work schedule or time sheet.

Why don't you go hang out over in that cess pool Tom.  You'd like it there. You can talk about everyone, right out, no mods to worry about spanking you, hell, they're too busy stroking off reading all the crap their little anonomonkeys post. 

You never answered why you and yours can't build others up, but have to resort to constant back door tactics to tear others down. But, such things may be beyond you. I blame poor training and sour grapes and a serious lack of what real martial artists possess.

You are envious of what someone else has accomplished, and rather that try to rise to that level, you seek to destroy it. Lets see, small backwater town cop vs international seminar instructor. Small backwater town school teacher vs largest international arnis organization. College club and couple of events vs world traveler with 30+ schools in group.  You know what, looks like Phartman beats you time and time again, and that gets your little thong in a knot.

So, please Thomas, continue to act the victim here. Keep rewriting entries on Wiki. Keep sulking in the sewers of the internet.  I can see your true self, and I'm sure others here can. 

Oh, and I wouldn't call your boss about you slacking off at work.  I'd spend a few bucks, send them in detailed logs, IP's, and more supporting evidence and hope you end up in an unemployment line. If I was vengeful, and had access to such things.  Which I'm not, and which I don't. See, I'm not like you Thomas. I've had good teachers, connected with good men, and learned the deeper truths that one doesn't find while drinking koolaid.

Thaa, Thaa, Thaa, Thats All Folks!


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 14, 2005)

Please, both sides just let it end!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 14, 2005)

Enough.

All parties that continued this mess, or contributed to the defamation of the Modern Arnis Wiki entries are no longer welcome here. While we cannot control what others do elsewhere, we can control the type of individuals who have access to our site and resources.

Our goal is to provide a positive enviroment to explore, preserve, promote and expand on Modern Arnis. Game players, trolls, and their ilk are not welcome here. Go build your own sandboxes where you can do as you like.

This constant crapping here ends, now.


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