# Police billy club based on the tonfa



## PhotonGuy (Aug 21, 2015)

So I heard that the billy club or truncheon that police carry is based on the tonfa, an eastern MA weapon. So PDs must teach their officers techniques used in the eastern martial arts for using the tonfa if they're carrying billy clubs that are based on their design. I like the tonfa and I believe it is a very good and effective weapon in the martial arts.


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## Tez3 (Aug 21, 2015)

The truncheons and batons used by the police in the UK aren't based on the tonfa but the tipstaff. We've never used anything that resembles a tonfa.


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## Transk53 (Aug 21, 2015)

Truncheon's pretty much hurt. Seen a few of the batons through the police visiting the office. Should really ask for a demo at some point, they look pretty effective in make up.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2015)

Yes  American PD have used a tonfa like baton called the PR-24. And no to my knowledge they do not use Asian based tactics for it's use.

As a side note and plug for a friend who owns the company there is also a baton based on the sai called the "Rapid Rotation Batton"  I would post a link but not sure if that would be against TOU for MT.  You can Google it.


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## Danny T (Aug 21, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> So I heard that the billy club or truncheon that police carry is based on the tonfa, an eastern MA weapon. So PDs must teach their officers techniques used in the eastern martial arts for using the tonfa if they're carrying billy clubs that are based on their design. I like the tonfa and I believe it is a very good and effective weapon in the martial arts.


Police in the U.S. use the 'PR 24' Side Handle Stick as well as the 'Straightstick'. They also use the 'Expandable Baton' 
As a Manadnock police self-defense tactics instructor I will say the PR 24 is not taught in police training in the same manner the Tonfa is in the martial arts although there is some bleed over as to how it is use. Police tactics are not the same as martial tactics.


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## jks9199 (Aug 21, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> So I heard that the billy club or truncheon that police carry is based on the tonfa, an eastern MA weapon. So PDs must teach their officers techniques used in the eastern martial arts for using the tonfa if they're carrying billy clubs that are based on their design. I like the tonfa and I believe it is a very good and effective weapon in the martial arts.


No, the straight baton, whether expandable or "classic" style, is not based on the tonfa.  As a clue... it lacks a handle sticking out the side...

However, there is a baton called a PR-24 or side handle baton that was inspired by them.  They were popular for a few years, but most agencies I'm aware of have gone back to the straight stick.  The PR-24 had a tendency to live in the car, while an ASP can live on an officer's belt.  There were also problems with ongoing training and retention of training...  (Heck, there was even a nunchaku based police tool at one point...)

With all that out of the way... Yep, amazingly enough, police administrators have found it more than slightly advisable to have officers actually given training in the use and retention of the weapons/tools they carry...


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 21, 2015)

just to give an example of how pitiful training standards are.....
TY16 Mandated In-service Training Standard

Massachusetts mandatory in-service training requires 3 hours of defensive tactics skills training per year.
and your question is, are LEO trained in martial arts based baton tactics...??  the state seems to mandate just enough training to keep themselves out of trouble and when things go wrong they can blame the officer and say "well, he had the training committee's recommended amount of training"


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## drop bear (Aug 22, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Police in the U.S. use the 'PR 24' Side Handle Stick as well as the 'Straightstick'. They also use the 'Expandable Baton'
> As a Manadnock police self-defense tactics instructor I will say the PR 24 is not taught in police training in the same manner the Tonfa is in the martial arts although there is some bleed over as to how it is use. Police tactics are not the same as martial tactics.


You don't think some krotty guy somewhere  in the police force had a hand in the invention and use in the pr 24?


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## drop bear (Aug 22, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> just to give an example of how pitiful training standards are.....
> TY16 Mandated In-service Training Standard
> 
> Massachusetts mandatory in-service training requires 3 hours of defensive tactics skills training per year.
> and your question is, are LEO trained in martial arts based baton tactics...??  the state seems to mandate just enough training to keep themselves out of trouble and when things go wrong they can blame the officer and say "well, he had the training committee's recommended amount of training"



Welcome to my world pretty much
 as it has been proven by experts that goose necks always work and hitting is unnecessary


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## elder999 (Aug 22, 2015)

The side-handle baton was actually invented by a former Marine in 1958, but was patented by Lon R. Anderson in 1974.

Pretty sure that Marine was Okinawan Goju guy....as was Lon R. Anderson, .but I'll keep looking.....


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## ballen0351 (Aug 22, 2015)

I have not seen a department still using PR24 I'm sure some still exist but I've never seen any around here


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## ballen0351 (Aug 22, 2015)

I have not seen a department still using PR24 I'm sure some still exist but I've never seen any around here


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## Danny T (Aug 23, 2015)

drop bear said:


> You don't think some krotty guy somewhere  in the police force had a hand in the invention and use in the pr 24?


Didn't say the PR 24 did not come from Okinawa. Said the training was not the same.


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## K50Marine (Aug 30, 2015)

hoshin1600 said:


> just to give an example of how pitiful training standards are.....
> TY16 Mandated In-service Training Standard
> 
> Massachusetts mandatory in-service training requires 3 hours of defensive tactics skills training per year.
> and your question is, are LEO trained in martial arts based baton tactics...??  the state seems to mandate just enough training to keep themselves out of trouble and when things go wrong they can blame the officer and say "well, he had the training committee's recommended amount of training"


 
Wow,That is not a lot. Not all agencies are the same. In my department we get ALOT more mandatory training than that per year, for instance firearms qualifications alone are quarterly (4 times per year). Defensive Tactics are also quarterly. We actually have 2 training days per month to conduct squad level training (active shooter, ground fighting, building searches, legal training, etc.). We also have to pass reality based scenario training several times per year.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 30, 2015)

I can remember being issued and trained yearly on a PR 24 way back in the day around 1987.  I cannot say I really ever cared for the thing.  Jks9199 is absolutely right in that because they were bulky they didn't always make it out of the car.  The ASP is ideal on several levels because it is small enough to fit on an officer's belt and he or she will always have it on him. 

Unfortunately, when it comes to mandated training for LEO's most departments fall closer to what Hoshin1600 mentioned.  Very little to none is more the norm in most departments.   It is good to hear that you guy's and gal's in Las Vegas are getting more training K50Marine!


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## drop bear (Aug 31, 2015)

By the way did anybody manage to get any juice out of holding the little handle and swininging it ninja style?

I mean it seemed cool but it was ridiculous to try to apply.


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## jks9199 (Aug 31, 2015)

drop bear said:


> By the way did anybody manage to get any juice out of holding the little handle and swininging it ninja style?
> 
> I mean it seemed cool but it was ridiculous to try to apply.


I've heard several stories of people knocking themselves out with the rotational strikes...  One involved someone who decided to "motivate" a soda machine that didn't drop his soda during a break -- and didn't make it back from the break.


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## Danny T (Aug 31, 2015)

In my area the PDs and SD's requirements are 1 hr per year on firearms and 2 hrs on defense tactics!! With the firearm training that includes range time to qualify once a year. As a police tactics instructor the requirements are a disgrace and a disservice to the officer and the public.


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## geezer (Sep 15, 2015)

drop bear said:


> By the way did anybody manage to get any juice out of holding the little handle and swininging it ninja style?
> 
> I mean it seemed cool but it was ridiculous to try to apply.



I had a brief association (in civilian capacity) with AZ DPS in the mid 70's and the PR24 was not yet in vogue.

Later, in the 80s I remember seeing officers carrying them and they appeared a lot on TV cop shows (as if _they_ reflected reality!). At the same time I got involved with Latosa PMAS Escrima and there were some LEOs who had adapted Escrima techniques to the PR 24. I must say that used that way it was pretty effective, and offered certain advantages over a straight baton. But it was still bulky and awkward to carry. I'm not surprised that it got replaced by the collapsible baton.

Interestingly, the side-handle baton is still featured in the logo of our group ...a vestige of those ancient times!

http://www.vingtsunaz.com/site_media/images/ad_240px_240px_pce_escrima.jpg



BTW in our Escrima group we tended_ not_ to hold it by the side-handle and swing it in the classical "swiveling" motion since that offered less control than other grips. The side handle grip, with the short end forward is great for close in punching though. A shot like that to the solar plexus would generally be pretty effective.


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