# Sorry to beat a dead horse, but ...



## PTWolf77 (Mar 23, 2005)

I would like suggestions from you experienced martial artists. I would like to start martial arts again (I took shorin - ryu for 1 1/2 years) about 10 years ago. I moved away from the area of the dojo and never restarted. I want an art that will give me effective self-defense. I do not need the arts for fitness; I am a personal fitness trainer and in good shape. I also do not want to do a lot of conditioning at the beginning of a class (no thousands of pushups, jumping jacks, etc.). I don't mind an art with a spiritual side; however I already have a daily yoga practice. I live in the New York City area and have access to a wide range of disciplines. I visited an aikido class, the school was great and the instructor friendly, but I am not sure how effective aikido is for self-defense. Does anyone have suggestions for an art that I should check out further?


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## theletch1 (Mar 23, 2005)

Dead horses need to be beaten...it tenderizes the meat.    Aikido can be an effective art for self defense BUT it is not an art where practical self defense will be something that happens quickly.  There is indeed a spiritual side to aikido (although some more than others) and the conditioning is minimal.  Aikido has been called "an old man's art" before.  If you're in the NY area try out Sensei MacEwen in Middletown, NY.  He teaches Nihon Goshin Aikido.  Less to the spiritual side, more to the street defense side.  Granted I'm a bit biased to this style as it is the one I study.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong (and quickly do so) but most of the striking arts that I'm familiar with require a good bit of conditioning to keep up the raw power needed to make some of the techniques work properly.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt.


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## rutherford (Mar 23, 2005)

I have nothing bad to say about Aikido.  I know some very skilled practitioners, respect their abilities highly, and would have chosen that art if it fit better with my own personal philosophy.  

However, I have been very happy with my chosen art.  

There are quite a few Bujinkan Dojos in NYC, and perhaps this one would be a good one to visit: Muzosa Bujinkan Dojo.

Jeff Christian is very friendly and responsive to email.


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## psi_radar (Mar 23, 2005)

Fight House in Manhattan 

http://www.fighthouse.com/


has Russian Systema, a very good, multidimensional martial art

www.russianmartialart.com

as well as some Kali and Kung Fu. 

Kenpo, the art I predominately trained in, is also a very good SD martial art, though I haven't heard of a specific school in the city. I know there are a bunch out on the Island. 

Best of luck on your search.


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## rutherford (Mar 23, 2005)

All good stuff.  

I'd also look into more combative training, if you think might interest you.  You could ask Ace about where the best competition fighters in NYC train, but this school is definitely a good place: 

http://www.nycmachadojj.com/


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## Andrew Green (Mar 23, 2005)

PTWolf77 said:
			
		

> I want an art that will give me effective self-defense.


 Look for lots of hard sparring 



> I do not need the arts for fitness;


 Well... hard sparring will give you that anyways 



> I am a personal fitness trainer and in good shape.


 I don't mind an art with a spiritual side; however I already have a daily yoga practice. I live in the New York City area and have access to a wide range of disciplines. I visited an aikido class, the school was great and the instructor friendly, but I am not sure how effective aikido is for self-defense. Does anyone have suggestions for an art that I should check out further?[/QUOTE] 
 In the end it comes down to fun, if it's not fun you'll drop out in a couple months which kind of eliminates whatever effectiveness might have been there...

 Also remember that for the majority of practitioners effectiveness is really not neccessary, most of us don't get into fights all that often.

 Now if effectiveness is important for whatever reason you should be looking for something that... well... hurts...  Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Muay Thai, BJJ, etc.  Systems that let you spar hard and really do the technique against resistance rather then pretend to do it against a co-operative opponent.

 Really there is a simple question you can ask yourself, does it feel choreographed or does it feel like a contact sport?


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## MJS (Mar 23, 2005)

PTWolf77 said:
			
		

> I would like suggestions from you experienced martial artists. I would like to start martial arts again (I took shorin - ryu for 1 1/2 years) about 10 years ago. I moved away from the area of the dojo and never restarted. I want an art that will give me effective self-defense. I do not need the arts for fitness; I am a personal fitness trainer and in good shape. I also do not want to do a lot of conditioning at the beginning of a class (no thousands of pushups, jumping jacks, etc.). I don't mind an art with a spiritual side; however I already have a daily yoga practice. I live in the New York City area and have access to a wide range of disciplines. I visited an aikido class, the school was great and the instructor friendly, but I am not sure how effective aikido is for self-defense. Does anyone have suggestions for an art that I should check out further?



I see in your opening statement, you are stating exactly what you're looking for.  Have you taken a look at any schools in your area? If so, what are the ones that are catching your eye?  If you haven't, I suggest looking at some that interest you.  Make sure that you ask many questions about the school, the inst., how classes are run, etc., and then make up a list to narrow your choices down even further.

Good luck on your search.

Mike


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## arnisador (Mar 23, 2005)

PTWolf77 said:
			
		

> I want an art that will give me effective self-defense. I do not need the arts for fitness; I am a personal fitness trainer and in good shape. I also do not want to do a lot of conditioning at the beginning of a class (no thousands of pushups, jumping jacks, etc.). I don't mind an art with a spiritual side; however I already have a daily yoga practice. I live in the New York City area and have access to a wide range of disciplines.


 Ordinarily I'd ask "What do you have available?" but indeed you have lots of choices. One crucial point from previous beatings of this horse: The instructor matters more than the system, so focus on that. But, you need a way to start with all the options you have available. Here's my two cents.

 Although it varies from instructor to instructor, arts that tend to do less calisthenics in class and are effective come in all shapes and sizes, but the following spring to mind: Wing Chun Kung Fu, Filipino martial arts (arnis/escrima/kali), Jeet Kune Do, Judo. The FMA and Judo could be done in too much of a dueling/sports fashion, so keep your eye out for that. There are also many lesser-known arts that might fit (Indonesian silat, etc.). There are many other styles of Kung Fu that might give you want you want. In my experience, preliminary calisthenics are common in Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, and, frankly, most martial arts schools, but again, it varies, and surely there are many here who would disagree with me on any of these.

 Systema looks interesting but I don't have enough experience with it to recommend it. It's worth investigating--its relaxed nature might mesh well with your yoga.

 I don't know if you'd think of boxing/kickboxing/Muay Thai/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Mixed Martial Arts in the "conditioning at the beginning" category or no; all are good for what you want but do include conditioning of some sort.



> I visited an aikido class, the school was great and the instructor friendly, but I am not sure how effective aikido is for self-defense.


 I think Aikido can be good if you have a looooooooong time to invest in it, but I don't think it sounds like what you want.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 24, 2005)

Since your in the N.Y. City area, try visiting Marco Lala in Yonkers. I've viewed his vidoes for years, great stuff, serious, effective techniques, and Mr. Lala himself seems to be big on the self defense aspect of the arts.


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## PTWolf77 (Mar 25, 2005)

Thanks everybody for the great suggestions. I wasn't sure what response I would receive. I will be checking out some of the schools in the next couple of weeks. If anyone needs any fitness and conditioning advice, please ask. I will let everyone know how the search is going.


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## TigerWoman (Mar 25, 2005)

Regarding TKD, we don't do a bunch of calisthenics.  We do dynamic stretching kicks specific for warming up and getting those muscles ready to work for the specific kicking we do, about five minutes worth. We do, do 100 pushups.  That's every class. We also do specific stretching and crunches at the end.  But most of our work is in actually kicking 80% and punching etc.  But be prepared to sweat.  TW


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 25, 2005)

Hi PT Wolf

New York - I'd love to go check out William CC Chen's studio

http://www.williamccchen.com/

He teaches Tai Chi, chinese boxing, etc.  I take classes from some of his students, and I really enjoy it.  

Please let me know if you go check it out - I'm very curious!


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## safeeagle (Mar 27, 2005)

I would recomend a style of Kung Fu called San Soo. Pretty good for the most part. No nonscence type of art. It would be worth your while to check it out.


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## still learning (Mar 29, 2005)

Hello, Have you read any of  Marc " animal" Macyoung books, or Christen Loren book on " Anything Goes"?  

  What are your goals on teaching is it for self-defense against real fighting? or a karate type schooling training.

  Living in New York city or nearby?  I would like to learn defense/offense fighting in the street style.  

  Read the book "Gift of Fear"  this may also be helpful.

 For those who may disagree? Please check-out these books,read them, then form your own opinion. Can you fight for real (in the street) where anything goes? Biting,eye gouging,weapons,two or more jump you, all out attack? The adrenaline kicking-in. The "WOOFING" being yell at you? 

 Very few people teach for the real stuffs? Is this your goal for teaching? If not then anything else won't matter? ....Boy am I going to get some feedbacks on this.....Just my thoughts 

 Keep in mind when it does happen? Will you be ready? Experience is a good teacher, if you live and not sent to jail. ......Aloha


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## Isrephael (Apr 5, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> Hi PT Wolf
> 
> New York - I'd love to go check out William CC Chen's studio
> 
> ...



I could not be more supportive of Feisty's suggestion.  My instructor is in his lineage, and what he has to offer is tremendous.  I would absolutely love to study under Master Chen.


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## Peter Steeves (Apr 21, 2005)

"still learning" raises some important issues if you're serious about finding a school for practicality in the physical side of martial arts.

There's a lot of value beyond that - absolutely. I'm impressed with the attitudes of so many martial artists that I'm proud to be among them. However, very few of them are trained to keep themselves or other people safe in real danger.

The books suggested are great. Gift of Fear is only one by Mr. DeBecker that impress me greatly. Also consider the Personal Protection Handbook by Tom Patire. Great thinker - I've trained with him, and like what he can do and how he thinks about the average person.

In New York, consider contacting Adam Mitchell with the Yasuragi Dojo in Mahopac. It's a short drive, and worth every minute of it - he's a very serious guy with even more serious abilities. Add to that a terrific personality as an instructor, and I think you have a terrific training place on your hands.

Check them out! *http://www.yasuragidojo.com* *(845) 628-5425*


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