# Shuri-Ryu Connections to Hsing-I/Xingyi



## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 25, 2016)

Hello everyone,

My question may seem a bit strange, since I'm asking about a karate style in a CMA forum, so I'm afraid my explanation will be a long one--sorry about that!

For those who are unaware, Shuri-Ryu (which I used to practice) is an eclectic American karate system that was created by Robert Trias. It has a somewhat shrouded and controversial history and lineage, and part of that is Trias' insistance that a major component of his style comes from training in Hsing-I/Xingyi under a man named Tung Ji Hsing (various spellings), who may or may not have existed. Since I don't do that style, anymore, but still have friends who do, I've pretty much steered clear of all the arguments about its history and legitimacy, although I'm fully aware of them.

Lately, though, I've been seeing a lot of discussions about one of the kata in the system, in particular, called Go Pei Sho, otherwise known as the "Tearing Peacock Form." Now, I have been told by several people that Trias made up this kata, which I suspect is highly likely. On the other hand, I have also been told that he learned the form from Hsing-I/Xingyi, and simply modified it to be more karate-like. The people who have told me this also say that one of Robert Smith's books shows a student of his performing the original version. I have one of his books, but it doesn't have anything in it remotely resembling Go Pei Sho.

For reference, here is a video of the kata:





*My question is;* are any Hsing-I/Xingyi practitioners, here, familiar with any form that could have been the origin of this version, and do you see any connections, whatsoever, to your art? Since the discussions about Shuri-Ryu and Go Pei Sho have been largely held on karate forums, I wanted to get some legitimate CMA input on it for my own clarification.

Thanks!


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 25, 2016)

That is most certainly not Xingyiquan

Xingyiquan 5 elements and Linking form


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## clfsean (Feb 25, 2016)

Yeah negative connection there really. 

Here's a pretty good example of Xingyi


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 25, 2016)

Xingyiquan 12 Animals


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## greytowhite (Feb 25, 2016)

Here is the pinnacle of our style of xingyi performing the five elements, does that look like what you showed? I see you're in Phoenix, if you want to stop in and get a taste of real xingyi then feel free to hit me up.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 25, 2016)

Thanks, everyone! As I mentioned, I was already of the opinion that the kata was probably made-up by Trias, and had no real connection to Hsing-I/Xingyi, but I appreciate the supporting commentary.



greytowhite said:


> Here is the pinnacle of our style of xingyi performing the five elements, does that look like what you showed? I see you're in Phoenix, if you want to stop in and get a taste of real xingyi then feel free to hit me up.



That would be fun! You're also welcome to visit our dojo and work with a little Shorin-Ryu


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 25, 2016)

This is just my own opinion but that Shuri kata is made up of some very common kata techniques from both goju ryu and shorin ryu styles. It has the DNA of okinawan karate.


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## hoshin1600 (Feb 25, 2016)

Just did a wiki search it says Trias originally called his style shorei-goju ryu.
It says Hsiang had learnt karate from choki Mutobu. This is curious to me. So where did the Goju influence come from?
It should be remembered Trias was the first to do karate in America and could claim anything he wanted since no one would know any better anyway.


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## Never_A_Reflection (Feb 25, 2016)

hoshin1600 said:


> Just did a wiki search it says Trias originally called his style shorei-goju ryu.
> It says Hsiang had learnt karate from choki Mutobu. This is curious to me. So where did the Goju influence come from?
> It should be remembered Trias was the first to do karate in America and could claim anything he wanted since no one would know any better anyway.



As I said, the history of Shuri-Ryu is relatively controversial. Since I wasn't there, and there is so much conflicting information, I can't tell you with absolute certainty where anything came from in the style. Trias traveled to Japan relatively often, and asked people from other styles to show him material that they practice, so that he could incorporate that into his system, as I understand it. The Goju-Ryu influence came from Yamaguchi Gogen and Roy Oshiro, as far as I know, but there were probably others here and there.


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## greytowhite (Feb 28, 2016)

Huh... for some reason I can't edit my post and the video didn't work. Trying again.






I appreciate the invitation but the training methods of xingyi and karate are kinda antithetical. I did some of Moore's karate that has since been ridiculously renamed to Shou Shu Kung Fu as a kid and have squared up with a few different stylists over the years. Our style of xingyi starts from a different focus than most lines of xingyi and producing power from a stable yet fluid structure is more important than producing massive amounts of power. I've had to empty my cup to learn this stuff and it's produced some very interesting results. I sent my sidai flying the other day while we were playing around at an open mic with little effort and simple intent - the people there freaked out.


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## geezer (Mar 7, 2016)

Greetings, Phellow Phoenicians. Robert Trias was a true martial arts pioneer and kind of a legend around here back in the late fifties and early 60's when I was a kid. My neighbor's dad was a student of his for a while and in our neighborhood, the name "Mr. Trias" was used on the playground the way "Chuck Norris" was used by kids in the 90s.

I remember meeting Robert Trias back in the 80s in the company of a visiting martial artist from Caracas Venezuela. In our conversation, I remember Mr. Trias going on about all the languages he spoke. Well it so happened that this visitor was a university professor, a linguist, and true polyglot. After we left the dojo, he confided in me that, with no disrespect, that Mr. Trias exaggerated his language skills considerably. Perhaps, again no disrespect intended, he did the same regarding his knowledge of _Hsing-i._


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## mograph (Mar 8, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Xingyiquan 5 elements and Linking form


That is one of my favorite Xingyiquan clips.


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## mograph (Mar 8, 2016)

clfsean said:


> Here's a pretty good example of Xingyi


Looks like the Ba Shi form. Is it?

edit: Oops. I guess it is! Just saw the title.

Carry on ...


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2016)

mograph said:


> That is one of my favorite Xingyiquan clips.



Mine too. That is Hai Yang, and I would love to train with him, but sadly he is in Montreal and 220 miles (354K) is bit to far for me to travel for classes


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## Flying Crane (Mar 8, 2016)

Xue Sheng said:


> Mine too. That is Hai Yang, and I would love to train with him, but sadly he is in Montreal and 220 miles (354K) is bit to far for me to travel for classes


Yeah, that is some outstanding body connection he has going, even at higher speed where it tends to break down for most people.  That's the first video clip I've seen in a long time that has actually impressed me.


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## mograph (Mar 8, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, that is some outstanding body connection he has going, even at higher speed where it tends to break down for most people.


Yep. If anyone asks why we practice at slow speeds then gradually build up to fast speeds ... there is our answer.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 8, 2016)

Flying Crane said:


> Yeah, that is some outstanding body connection he has going, even at higher speed where it tends to break down for most people.  That's the first video clip I've seen in a long time that has actually impressed me.



I believe he is one of those legitimate "Came from a martial arts family in china" guys

Not wanting to Hijack the thread, but Hai Yang has a few xingyiquan videos on YouTube, and some are of him teaching students.


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## clfsean (Mar 9, 2016)

I've always liked Li Tai Liang too ...


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## mograph (Mar 16, 2016)

clfsean said:


> I've always liked Li Tai Liang too ...


What can you guys tell me about his feet, particularly the weighting/rooting/timing of the front foot versus the back foot, relative to the timing of the punch?


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