# Any info on daggers by Cold Steel?



## Flying Crane

Hi everyone,

I stumbled accross a couple daggers made by Cold Steel, on Amazon.com, here's the link to their 'hand-and-a-hald dagger' and they've also got an "Italian dagger" there as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Hand-Half-Dagger/dp/B0030D82Z4/ref=pd_sim_sg_1

Does anyone know anything about these?  Quality of workmanship, robustness of tang, type of steel. etc?  

thanks!


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## Christian Soldier

It's 1055 carbon which I am a fan of, just oil it after use. It doesn't look that big in the picture but if you watch the hand and a half sword video, you can see Thompson holding the dagger towards the end of the video. It would appear to be similar in size to some of the large bowies. It certanitly got some great reviews and the traditional look is pretty sweet.
What are you planning on using it for?


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## lklawson

Flying Crane said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I stumbled accross a couple daggers made by Cold Steel, on Amazon.com, here's the link to their 'hand-and-a-hald dagger' and they've also got an "Italian dagger" there as well.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Hand-Half-Dagger/dp/B0030D82Z4/ref=pd_sim_sg_1
> 
> Does anyone know anything about these?  Quality of workmanship, robustness of tang, type of steel. etc?


Cold Steel makes decent, functional products.  They are typically very robust, solid pieces.  Sometimes they get 70-80% marks for historical accuracy, however.  Even the one which they claim to be historic reproductions often aren't.  However, their knives are durable and dependable.

Their swords get poor marks for usability, usually.  My Kenjitsu friends relate that their Japanese swords are more "japanese inspired"  (to quote) and handle like "pigs."  Their Medieval swords tend to be over-weight and handle predictably like an over-weight sword, though,to be fair, the vast majority of production line Medieval swords suffer from this and you pay custom sword prices for custom swords.    Their Edwardian/Victorian swords, also tend to be a bit over weight but that isn't as big a deal with the Sabers but they're often not quite right.  I have a professional historian and smith friend who has taken their sabers and re-ground them, then altered the hilt angle to get the reproduction "right."

Same basic complaint for their Renaissance swords.

Their knives are usually very good, though, again, often not quite right, historically (as I said) but usually "close enough for government work." 

I carry one of their X2 Voyagers and own one of their Laredos and some other stuff.  I've given some of their knives as gifts because they're not too expensive but are durable and won't break off or close on your fingers.  I recommend their knives for what they are: functional, durable, not too expensive, that you can use hard. One of my students took a Kudu I gave him on a medical mission trip to Haiti, opened a crap-ton of boxes with it, did other utility work, brought it back still very sharp and in good condition.

I'm not sure that $150-200 is a good price for this piece though (though maybe it is).  I've found CS knives on fleebay for 1/2-1/2 the going retail (never mind MSRP).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Flying Crane

Christian Soldier said:


> It's 1055 carbon which I am a fan of, just oil it after use. It doesn't look that big in the picture but if you watch the hand and a half sword video, you can see Thompson holding the dagger towards the end of the video. It would appear to be similar in size to some of the large bowies. It certanitly got some great reviews and the traditional look is pretty sweet.
> What are you planning on using it for?



yes, I did a little independent research on the 1055, it seems it's considered a good, tough, durable steel for blades, including larger blades.  I believe the measurements give it a 13 inch blade, or in that neighborhood.  That's a pretty big knife, almost a short sword.  

I just have an affinity for blades, I like knives, swords, tomahawks, etc.  I've got some legitimate training in weaponry in the context of traditional Chinese martial arts, I'm no expert but my training is serious, from a good source, and I work on it.  My training includes Chinese sword, saber, and butterfly knives so I have an overal "familiarity" with these kinds of things, not to mention the fact that I custom build hilts and scabbards for Chinese swords and sabers (gim and dao).  Mostly I just see this as something interesting for the collection, a minor indulgence in my Zombie Apocalypse fantasies .


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## Flying Crane

lklawson said:


> Cold Steel makes decent, functional products. They are typically very robust, solid pieces. Sometimes they get 70-80% marks for historical accuracy, however. Even the one which they claim to be historic reproductions often aren't. However, their knives are durable and dependable.
> 
> Their swords get poor marks for usability, usually. My Kenjitsu friends relate that their Japanese swords are more "japanese inspired" (to quote) and handle like "pigs." Their Medieval swords tend to be over-weight and handle predictably like an over-weight sword, though,to be fair, the vast majority of production line Medieval swords suffer from this and you pay custom sword prices for custom swords.  Their Edwardian/Victorian swords, also tend to be a bit over weight but that isn't as big a deal with the Sabers but they're often not quite right. I have a professional historian and smith friend who has taken their sabers and re-ground them, then altered the hilt angle to get the reproduction "right."
> 
> Same basic complaint for their Renaissance swords.
> 
> Their knives are usually very good, though, again, often not quite right, historically (as I said) but usually "close enough for government work."
> 
> I carry one of their X2 Voyagers and own one of their Laredos and some other stuff. I've given some of their knives as gifts because they're not too expensive but are durable and won't break off or close on your fingers. I recommend their knives for what they are: functional, durable, not too expensive, that you can use hard. One of my students took a Kudu I gave him on a medical mission trip to Haiti, opened a crap-ton of boxes with it, did other utility work, brought it back still very sharp and in good condition.
> 
> I'm not sure that $150-200 is a good price for this piece though (though maybe it is). I've found CS knives on fleebay for 1/2-1/2 the going retail (never mind MSRP).
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



Thank you Kirk, this is the kind of knowledgeable information I was hoping for.

Given that you say their swords of all kinds have some problems, but their knives are durable and good quality for the money, do you have any sense just where the daggers might fit in the bigger picture?  Given their size, they are almost a short sword, do you think they might have the problems that their swords have, or would you suspect they are more in line with their knives?  Personally, I'm not so concerned with historical accuracy as simply knowing the piece is well constricted, solid, and made of quality materials.

thanks!


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## lklawson

Flying Crane said:


> Given that you say their swords of all kinds have some problems,


Well, they're not bad in the sense that they won't come apart from use, shatter, or turn into flying missiles.  They're just not "live" in the hands.  To call them "crowbars with a hilt" would be unjust and vastly over-stating the point but it kinda gets across the way they feel in the hand.  I dunno, maybe they have improved since I last checked.



> but their knives are durable and good quality for the money, do you have any sense just where the daggers might fit in the bigger picture?


I'm satisfied with the bowies and other big knives of their that I own or have handled.



> Given their size, they are almost a short sword, do you think they might have the problems that their swords have, or would you suspect they are more in line with their knives?


You can do a lot for a knife's balance by giving it a heavy enough pommel.  Besides, I like my bowies to be point-heavy so that I can snap-cut.



> Personally, I'm not so concerned with historical accuracy as simply knowing the piece is well constricted, solid, and made of quality materials.


It will be durable and dependable.  It's not a wall hanger and it's not a museum piece.  I've never heard of any issues with the quality of Cold Steel's heat-treating process nor their materials.  If, for instance, you were looking for something for your SCA "kit" that you could actually hack off a hunk of roast or sharpen a tent-stake, then this fits the bill.

I did a quick fleebay search and found prices as low as $120 on them but I don't know what shipping is.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Flying Crane

lklawson said:


> Well, they're not bad in the sense that they won't come apart from use, shatter, or turn into flying missiles. They're just not "live" in the hands. To call them "crowbars with a hilt" would be unjust and vastly over-stating the point but it kinda gets across the way they feel in the hand. I dunno, maybe they have improved since I last checked.
> 
> I'm satisfied with the bowies and other big knives of their that I own or have handled.
> 
> You can do a lot for a knife's balance by giving it a heavy enough pommel. Besides, I like my bowies to be point-heavy so that I can snap-cut.
> 
> It will be durable and dependable. It's not a wall hanger and it's not a museum piece. I've never heard of any issues with the quality of Cold Steel's heat-treating process nor their materials. If, for instance, you were looking for something for your SCA "kit" that you could actually hack off a hunk of roast or sharpen a tent-stake, then this fits the bill.
> 
> I did a quick fleebay search and found prices as low as $120 on them but I don't know what shipping is.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk




thank you sir, good info.  that's the guidance I was looking for.


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## lklawson

My pleasure.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Christian Soldier

Flying Crane said:


> yes, I did a little independent research on the 1055, it seems it's considered a good, tough, durable steel for blades, including larger blades. I believe the measurements give it a 13 inch blade, or in that neighborhood. That's a pretty big knife, almost a short sword.
> 
> I just have an affinity for blades, I like knives, swords, tomahawks, etc. I've got some legitimate training in weaponry in the context of traditional Chinese martial arts, I'm no expert but my training is serious, from a good source, and I work on it. My training includes Chinese sword, saber, and butterfly knives so I have an overal "familiarity" with these kinds of things, not to mention the fact that I custom build hilts and scabbards for Chinese swords and sabers (gim and dao). Mostly I just see this as something interesting for the collection, a minor indulgence in my Zombie Apocalypse fantasies .



This seems like a pretty good fit. I think they make a plastic one for training too that would be _very_ helpfull if you plan on using it in a martial arts manner. I was just asking to make sure you weren't going to use it for brush clearing and buying it because it looks cool.   Not sure how well it would do on Z Day but it'd be allright for practicing short sword/big knife techniques with a live blade.


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## Flying Crane

Christian Soldier said:


> This seems like a pretty good fit. I think they make a plastic one for training too that would be _very_ helpfull if you plan on using it in a martial arts manner. I was just asking to make sure you weren't going to use it for brush clearing and buying it because it looks cool.  Not sure how well it would do on Z Day but it'd be allright for practicing short sword/big knife techniques with a live blade.



yeah I've seen their plastic ones, might pick one up to play with.  No, I'd never use something that cost this kind of money for brush clearing.  I imagine I can get a machete at the local hardware store for well under $20 that would work plenty well for that job.  

I imagine a 13 inch blade, as a backup weapon, could sever a Zed Head in a pinch.  Might be getting closer to the foul beastie than you would like, but that's why it's call a "backup weapon".  

My butterfly swords have blades around 13 inches, it's a very functional size.


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## monk64

I've found Cold Steel as a company to be a mixed bag overall but good for knives.  

A friend bought their cane sword and I was not impressed.  On the other hand, my Recondo SRK has been through a lot of backpacking expeditions and has served me very well - indeed, it's probably my favorite knife.  I have a couple of their smaller pocket knives and they're good.  I can't speak to how good they are for combat applications, but the knives I've used have been well made for working.

Overall, I think their core competency is knives.  When they stray from that, they're just not at their best.


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## MikeBielat

I own knives by them. I cannot see buying anything else from them though like a katana or stuff like that.


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## Flying Crane

I actually did get one of those daggers.  It's not bad.  Not perfect, but serviceable.  I don't care for the shape of the grip, it tapers too sharply.  But overall I think it's a decent piece.


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## chinto

the owner of Cold Steel Inc. is an Edged weapons fanatic! I would be very very shocked if it was not a very good weapon of its type! he does not believe in selling things that are not quality blades from my experience in their products!


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## Flying Crane

chinto said:


> the owner of Cold Steel Inc. is an Edged weapons fanatic! I would be very very shocked if it was not a very good weapon of its type! he does not believe in selling things that are not quality blades from my experience in their products!



yeah I actually think it's a solid piece.  I've seen some reference to the type of steels used, can't remember at the moment but it was something that's respectable for a good blade, and with good heating and tempering processes.  the guard is thick and substantial, it's a very solid piece.

My only complaint is that I'm not entirely happy with the shape and size of the grip.  It's a bit narrower than I would like, and it tapers a bit sharply for my taste.  If I was making the grip, I'd make it a bit thicker, and less taper.  Might give it a slight bulge in the middle, then taper a bit to the back.  I've rebuilt a number of hilts on swords over the years, so I've had a chance to experiment with the shape and size of grips, and to recognize how it impacts use of the item.  So that's really my only complaint, tho it's not a big enough complaint to not recommend the piece to anyone interested.  It's still very serviceable.

I attempted to disassemble the piece to look at the tang, but was unable to get the pommel nut to move.  Might be permanently fixed, glued or something, so I didn't try to force it.  If I could get it apart without damaging anything I might consider rebuilding the grip, but that's just my personal tinkering gremlin going to work.


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## Uncle

If you want it for a show piece then I don't really see any issue with the handle. If you're using it for practical purposes like test cutting or heaven forbid a rather large defensive weapon just wrap the offending section of the handle in some camo-form.


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## chinto

Flying Crane said:


> yeah I actually think it's a solid piece.  I've seen some reference to the type of steels used, can't remember at the moment but it was something that's respectable for a good blade, and with good heating and tempering processes.  the guard is thick and substantial, it's a very solid piece.
> 
> My only complaint is that I'm not entirely happy with the shape and size of the grip.  It's a bit narrower than I would like, and it tapers a bit sharply for my taste.  If I was making the grip, I'd make it a bit thicker, and less taper.  Might give it a slight bulge in the middle, then taper a bit to the back.  I've rebuilt a number of hilts on swords over the years, so I've had a chance to experiment with the shape and size of grips, and to recognize how it impacts use of the item.  So that's really my only complaint, tho it's not a big enough complaint to not recommend the piece to anyone interested.  It's still very serviceable.
> 
> I attempted to disassemble the piece to look at the tang, but was unable to get the pommel nut to move.  Might be permanently fixed, glued or something, so I didn't try to force it.  If I could get it apart without damaging anything I might consider rebuilding the grip, but that's just my personal tinkering gremlin going to work.



you can wrap leather around the hilt in the same way as the manufacturer did with glue, and damp and all and make the hilt thicker. that would be my suggestion.  Do it in a few layers of thin latigo type leather and small piece over the to thin to make it thicker first... any good book on knife making will show you how.


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