# Has anyone received a new Kukkiwon certificate with Taekwondo on it?



## andyjeffries

I just received my new certificate from Korea and it was dated 20 January 2011, but no mention of Taekwondo on it.  I knew the initial run didn't have it mentioned, but I thought (from the mookas article showing the new certificates) that the new ones would have.

I guess it either isn't changing after all or I mine was printed on an old certificate.

It doesn't really matter either way (it's just a piece of paper) but was wondering...


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## DMcHenry

The only new one I've seen was an 8th dan cert.  I don't remember specifically what it said.


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## ATC

The new certs are really plain looking and not as nice as the old ones. But the new cards are pretty cool. A couple of 1st dans at our dojang just got theirs.


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## andyjeffries

ATC said:


> The new certs are really plain looking and not as nice as the old ones. But the new cards are pretty cool. A couple of 1st dans at our dojang just got theirs.



I agree with both points.  The printed side of my card seems a bit faint, but the non-printed side looks really nice.  Personally I prefer a really traditional looking/asian style certificate - the new ones look more sport than martial art.


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> I agree with both points.  The printed side of my card seems a bit faint, but the non-printed side looks really nice.  Personally I prefer a really traditional looking/asian style certificate - the new ones look more sport than martial art.




I showed the new certificate to a non-taekwondo person in my office and he said it looked like a calendar, not a martial arts rank certificate.


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## ETinCYQX

If I remember I'll post mine up when I get it for you guys to compare. I'm in Canada but IIRC that doesn't make a difference.

EDIT: Hey, green belt! If only real promotions were this easy...


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## puunui

Also, to answer the topic question, no, strangely the word Taekwondo does not appear any where on the new Kukkiwon dan certificates, in english or in korean. I do not understand that.


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## Archtkd

puunui said:


> Also, to answer the topic question, no, strangely the word Taekwondo does not appear any where on the new Kukkiwon dan certificates, in english or in korean. I do not understand that.


 
That's what happens when you pay marketing design "consultants" to think for you.


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> Also, to answer the topic question, no, strangely the word Taekwondo does not appear any where on the new Kukkiwon dan certificates, in english or in korean. I do not understand that.



I know it's due to be, there's a picture of the new-new certificates on mookas and they show the word Taekwondo.  Obviously though that's just a mockup rather than the finished product...


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> I know it's due to be, there's a picture of the new-new certificates on mookas and they show the word Taekwondo.  Obviously though that's just a mockup rather than the finished product...




Are you sure about that? Those might be the new prototypes, and what they are issuing is the new actual certificates.


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> Are you sure about that? Those might be the new prototypes, and what they are issuing is the new actual certificates.



Not sure which way round they are regarding new or prototypes, but that article came out after the first new ones were sent out.

I'd hoped they'd taken on board feedback (as I know a number of people emailed the Kukkiwon about the certificates) and added the word Taekwondo to them (rather than intentionally removing it).


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> I'd hoped they'd taken on board feedback (as I know a number of people emailed the Kukkiwon about the certificates) and added the word Taekwondo to them (rather than intentionally removing it).




I don't think the new Kukkiwon president is into listening. That was the word on him back when he was a Kukkiwon and KTA director and now as Kukkiwon president. People advise him and he disregards the advice and goes his own way. The certificate is one example. The new logo is another. Personally, I think he is a short timer put in place to do the "wet work" and then will leave after things are shaken up. When he leaves will depend on exactly how much wet work he manages to do over what time frame. It's chaos over at the Kukkiwon, and powerful people are organizing and mobilizing against him. 

By the way, President Kang is another Kyung Hee University alumni....


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## IcemanSK

puunui said:


> *By the way, President Kang is another Kyung Hee University alumni....[/*quote]
> 
> What is the significance of this beyond possible fraternal ties? That might certainly be enough. But I wasn't sure if there was something beyond that.


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## puunui

The WTF President's father founded Kyung Hee University; it is the Choue family business.


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## andyjeffries

IcemanSK said:


> What is the significance of this beyond possible fraternal ties? That might certainly be enough. But I wasn't sure if there was something beyond that.



I understood Korean culture placed a lot of emphasis on relationships and having the same university education, more so than fitness for position, etc.

It's more than a fraternal brotherhood in Korea.


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## d1jinx

*UPDATE:*

Well, no one seems to have mentioned it lately so I just wanted to update this.

I recieved 8 of the new certificates this past week. Dated 5 Feb.

These must be the Newest Revision because they say Taekwondo.

"_This is to certify the above named person has successfully completed the Taekwondo 2nd Dan promotion test by the Kukkiwon"_

Then it has a RIBBON stamped/imprinted on the page, that says "KUKKIWON World Taekwondo Headquarters" with the new logo.

It also has Taekwondo in the korean written portion.

The poom certs are the same with the exception of the word POOM instead of DAN and the RED and black trim instead of just black for the Dan certs.


I have to say, I still like the old certs, but these are pretty nice. And I REALLY like the wallet cards WAY better now too.

I cant post photos here so... sorry.


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## Archtkd

d1jinx said:


> *UPDATE:*
> I recieved 8 of the new certificates this past week. Dated 5 Feb.
> 
> These must be the Newest Revision because they say Taekwondo.
> 
> "_This is to certify the above named person has successfully completed the Taekwondo 2nd Dan promotion test by the Kukkiwon"_
> 
> Then it has a RIBBON stamped/imprinted on the page, that says "KUKKIWON World Taekwondo Headquarters" with the new logo.
> 
> It also has Taekwondo in the korean written portion.
> 
> The poom certs are the same with the exception of the word POOM instead of DAN and the RED and black trim instead of just black for the Dan certs.
> 
> 
> I have to say, I still like the old certs, but these are pretty nice. And I REALLY like the wallet cards WAY better now too.
> 
> I cant post photos here so... sorry.


 
Good to know. I have a couple of certs I'm waiting for and I was hoping they'd be the latest design, with the words Taekwondo.


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## goingd

Personally, I like the new certificates. That's not to say that I like them better than the old style, but I haven't much of a preference. I've heard it said several times, but I'm not exactly sure what makes it look more "sport" than martial art. I don't get that perception, personally. I think the calligraphy of the poomsae was a nice idea also.


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## leadleg

I was always looking forward to the color change at 6th and at irst I did not like the new certificates. I frame and hang the KKW cert's on the wall,after hanging up the new ones I have had quite a few students ask if they could get the new style to replace the old ones they have.Of course I tell them they will have to wait till they test again.
 I have to say I like the way they look on the wall, I do not fear change.
 The ones I have do not say TKD or have a stamp.


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## andyjeffries

d1jinx said:


> I recieved 8 of the new certificates this past week. Dated 5 Feb.
> 
> These must be the Newest Revision because they say Taekwondo.
> 
> "_This is to certify the above named person has successfully completed the Taekwondo 2nd Dan promotion test by the Kukkiwon"_
> 
> Then it has a RIBBON stamped/imprinted on the page, that says "KUKKIWON World Taekwondo Headquarters" with the new logo.
> 
> It also has Taekwondo in the korean written portion.



Interesting, it seems like the earlier ones were the prototypes and the newer ones are the ones that were shown on mooto.us.  I missed getting one that says Taekwondo by 15-ish days then ;-)



d1jinx said:


> I have to say, I still like the old certs, but these are pretty nice. And I REALLY like the wallet cards WAY better now too.


 
I agree with this.  My certificate is growing on me, but I prefer the look of the older style.  I think the new wallet cards are very nice, but I'd be happy with that style (hard plastic rather than laminated paper) done in the old design too.


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## puunui

leadleg said:


> I was always looking forward to the color change at 6th and at irst I did not like the new certificates.



I believe the color change from silver to gold is or used to be at 5th Dan, not 6th.  




leadleg said:


> I have had quite a few students ask if they could get the new style to replace the old ones they have.Of course I tell them they will have to wait till they test again.



They don't have to wait. They can request a duplicate certificate be issued, for $10 I believe, and they can get the new certificate. 




leadleg said:


> I have to say I like the way they look on the wall, I do not fear change. The ones I have do not say TKD or have a stamp.



It's not about fearing change, it's about the new certificates being ugly. The overwhelming majority of people that I have spoken to have said that the new certificate is cheap and ugly, when compared to the hanji paper version that preceded these new certificates.


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> I believe the color change from silver to gold is or used to be at 5th Dan, not 6th.



It used to be 5th Dan, but I think it's now at 6th Dan though.  I've seen the new 5th Dan and it's the same as the 1st Dan certificate (6x6 grid of glyphs).  The new 6th Dan certificate has a slightly different colour and has a 3x3 grid of glyphs)[/QUOTE]



puunui said:


> They don't have to wait. They can request a duplicate certificate be issued, for $10 I believe, and they can get the new certificate.



It's not different enough to worry about asking for a replacement and although I'm proud to have mine, it's only a bit of paper...


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> It used to be 5th Dan, but I think it's now at 6th Dan though.  I've seen the new 5th Dan and it's the same as the 1st Dan certificate (6x6 grid of glyphs).  The new 6th Dan certificate has a slightly different colour and has a 3x3 grid of glyphs)




I don't know how accurate those mookas prototypes or samples are. Everything is in flux at the Kukkiwon and nothing is set in stone. President Kang must be feeling tremendous pressure at the moment. His situation is similar David Askinas, except that the personal hostility isn't as great yet (but it's getting there), and President Kang doesn't have nearly the support at Mr. Askinas has within the organization itself, certainly not from the Board of Directors, or even outside, in the form of the KTA.


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## leadleg

puunui said:


> I believe the color change from silver to gold is or used to be at 5th Dan, not 6th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have to wait. They can request a duplicate certificate be issued, for $10 I believe, and they can get the new certificate.
> They have to wait because I want them to.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about fearing change, it's about the new certificates being ugly. The overwhelming majority of people that I have spoken to have said that the new certificate is cheap and ugly, when compared to the hanji paper version that preceded these new certificates.


 yes the hanji paper was a good change, I know a lot of people who don't like them but they do look better when framed,and it is still KKW and they are proud of that.


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> I don't know how accurate those mookas prototypes or samples are.



d1jinx has offered to send me a photo of the one he received.  When I get it, I'll host it somewhere and put a link in here so we can see how close it is to the mookas images.


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## d1jinx

andyjeffries said:


> d1jinx has offered to send me a photo of the one he received. When I get it, I'll host it somewhere and put a link in here so we can see how close it is to the mookas images.


 
tonight, i promise.

both Poom and Dan along with ID's


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## andyjeffries

d1jinx said:


> tonight, i promise.
> 
> both Poom and Dan along with ID's



No pressure or hurry mate.  Was just keeping people informed on here.


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## puunui

leadleg said:


> yes the hanji paper was a good change, I know a lot of people who don't like them but they do look better when framed,and it is still KKW and they are proud of that.




My teacher visited during Christmas and we talked about the change in the Kukkiwon poom and dan certificates. I mentioned that the overwhelming majority of people out there prefer the old design. His response was that he had heard similar things and that if people continued to complain, they would probably change it back. It is not set it stone. So it is not something that we have to simply accept or forced to make lemonade out of.


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## andyjeffries

andyjeffries said:


> d1jinx has offered to send me a photo of the one he received.  When I get it, I'll host it somewhere and put a link in here so we can see how close it is to the mookas images.



OK, so everyone is clear what they look like, here is my certificate (issued 20th of January 2011):





And here is one from d1jinx (issued 5th of February 2011):





d1jinx also sent me pictures of a Poom version of the new certificate design and a photograph of the new cards (mine is identical in design).

Thank you to d1jinx for making them available and giving me permission to upload them.

So there we go, versions of the new certificates out in the wild.  I'd be interested to know if anyone gets a older new certificate (like mine) dated after the 5th of February (or if they've now exhausted the stocks of those certificates).


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## d1jinx

well, one things certain, Pres Kang has by far the prettiest signature!!!!!


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## andyjeffries

d1jinx said:


> well, one things certain, Pres Kang has by far the prettiest signature!!!!!



I was thinking that the other night too!  And I even went as far as blowing up a copy to examine closer because I thought it was just a pretty font and typed on there (but no, the 'n' in particular is slightly different between the two occurrences).


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## puunui

d1jinx said:


> well, one things certain, Pres Kang has by far the prettiest signature!!!!!



Prettier than President LEE Seung Wan's signature? I know that Dr. KIM Un Yong's signature was by far the most comforting and secure feeling....


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## d1jinx

puunui said:


> Prettier than President LEE Seung Wan's signature? I know that Dr. KIM Un Yong's signature was by far the most comforting and secure feeling....


 
well, I can only base it off the Certs I have witnessed with Pres Kim, Pres Uhm, and Now Pres Kang. 

As for any meaning behind the signature I have no comment. I was only referring to the style in which they were signed. very pretty.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Post a copy of Pres Lee's and lets compare.  I honestly dont remember if I saw a cert with his on it or not.  But I'm open to take a look.


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> Prettier than President LEE Seung Wan's signature? I know that Dr. KIM Un Yong's signature was by far the most comforting and secure feeling....



In my opinion yes.  Here's all four Kukkiwon presidents' signatures (hopefully I didn't miss anyone).


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## d1jinx

d1jinx said:


> Post a copy of Pres Lee's and lets compare. I honestly dont remember if I saw a cert with his on it or not. But I'm open to take a look.


 
actually I just looked at my International Master License and it was signed by Pres Lee.  He has a Rock Star type signature!

I still think Pres Kang has the prettiest!


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## andyjeffries

d1jinx said:


> actually I just looked at my International Master License and it was signed by Pres Lee.  He has a Rock Star type signature!
> 
> I still think Pres Kang has the prettiest!



I agree on both parts.  A shame President Kang spent more time on his signature than his decisions ;-)

(Ooh, cheeky low blow...)


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> I don't know how accurate those mookas prototypes or samples are.



As I feel I've become a bit of a certificate geek recently, I paid up the $10 for a replacement certificate so I could see if I got the newer one or not.  So, here is the certificate I got in January this year:






And here is the replacement I got in April this year:






The card also changed slightly (now includes the word Taekwondo and has a red chop on it):






The card also appears (although the photo doesn't do it justice) to have been printed at a higher resolution (the previous one seemed a lot more grainy).

I showed my wife (non-Taekwondoin) and she much prefers the new one.  I agree...


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## d1jinx

looks better.


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## aftab

Agreed. 

(Good to know that the Kukkiwon listened to user feedback, and did their best improve the new certificates. Even the word 'taekwondo' makes a big difference I think)


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## msmitht

I got a batch of the new ones last month. I like the new seal and they finally put taekwondo on it! Yay!


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## miguksaram

andyjeffries said:


> I agree on both parts.  A shame President Kang spent more time on his signature than his decisions ;-)
> 
> (Ooh, cheeky low blow...)


Well played Mr. Jeffries....well played.


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> In my opinion yes.  Here's all four Kukkiwon presidents' signatures (hopefully I didn't miss anyone).




When we went on that USTC trip to Korea, President Seung Wan LEE gave us Commendations which he signed in hanmoon. I believe it was the only time he did that. So there is a fifth signature out there as well. There are also Kukkiwon certificates with no signature on them, other than "Kukkiwon President".


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## andyjeffries

puunui said:


> When we went on that USTC trip to Korea, President Seung Wan LEE gave us Commendations which he signed in hanmoon. I believe it was the only time he did that. So there is a fourth signature out there as well.



I wonder if that's a nice signature...



puunui said:


> There are also Kukkiwon certificates with no signature on them, other than "Kukkiwon President".



I don't think that counts ;-)


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## puunui

puunui said:


> I know that Dr. KIM Un Yong's signature was by far the most comforting and secure feeling....




There was a time when Dr. Kim personally signed all of the dan certificates. Then he only signed those which were for 5th Dan and above.


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## Master Dan

andyjeffries said:


> In my opinion yes. Here's all four Kukkiwon presidents' signatures (hopefully I didn't miss anyone).


 
I miss having Yong Kim on future certs but I like 3 of 4 with Uhm being the least favorite. However as far as one signature having more worth in the world? Well it is what it is if your so loyal to KKW then you have no choice when time in rank comes due you test and that is it. What your going to say your not worthy to sign my Dan rank? I think Kang Won Sik is very fine I am more concerned about he the KKW logo and traditional KKW marks being gone?

I have a professional chinese artists to reproduce any of our Dan ranks in a large artistic reproductions purely for traditional and artistic reasons for display using all curren KKW information simply as a representation of an individuals accomplishment not to violate any rules as far as issuing Dan rank.

Thanks for this post


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## puunui

andyjeffries said:


> I wonder if that's a nice signature...




It looks ok.


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