# Brock And His Antics



## MJS (Jul 12, 2009)

A few related articles on the UFC 100 and Brock.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dw-lesnar071209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


http://www.examiner.com/x-13475-Pro...nar-damage-the-UFC-with-his-post-fight-antics


So, some people are questioning, whether Brock is ruining the image of the UFC, by flipping the crowd off, disrespecting sponsors, and dragging Danas image thru the mud in the course of all of this. One thing that caught my attention, was the fact that Dana claims that he was upset with what Brock was doing and saying. Well, lets see, last time I checked, the UFC was Danas baby, so I'd think that he'd have the say as to what people fight on his show. So, common sense would tell you, that you'd do a little background checking on your fighters. I mean, if Brocks actions were so bad, you'd think that during his wrestling days, he'd have done the same thing. I doubt people who act like he did, just started the day they signed with the UFC. 

IMHO, I really didn't see anything wrong with what he did, due to the fact that I could name a number of fighters, whos actions could be questionable. Lets see....Tito and Ken Shamrock. They've had more than their fair share of ring antics. Tank mocked John Matua (sp) in UFC6, after he KO'd him. Dan Henderson, from the article, hit a KO'd fighter. 

I think its safe to say that whether all of the drama that we see is real or not, fact of the matter is, is that it brings in viewers, which means it brings in cash, and lots of it. 

So, I thought we could talk about this. For those that watched the fight, do you feel that anything that happened, was that over the top?


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## FeralKenpo (Jul 12, 2009)

I think that rivalries are good, but actions like Brock's are way over the top. Of course that goes for all fighters, Brock isn't the only one who goes over the top.


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## MJS (Jul 13, 2009)

FeralKenpo said:


> I think that rivalries are good, but actions like Brock's are way over the top. Of course that goes for all fighters, Brock isn't the only one who goes over the top.


 
Agreed, and the rivalries, and antics, like I said, is what keeps the $$$ flowing in.  I find it interesting, because I can't recall this much fuss being made over anyone else.  IMO, he did nothing worse, unless I was watching a different fight, than the other people I've mentioned.


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## tallgeese (Jul 13, 2009)

Over the top?  Yes.  Showing little class, if any?  You bet.  Will I threaten to stop watching the sport due to them?  Heck no!

In fact, it might actaully bring in more viewers next time, an unfortunate indictment.  However, other guys have done stupid things as well

For Lesner, it actually takes away from him dominating victory (thru size or skill dosn't really matter) over Mir.


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## bowser666 (Jul 13, 2009)

Personally i think he let his emotions get over him.  It was quite a accomplishment to beat Mir in the fashion that he did. The fans booed him alot and and what he did was his way of saying.  I just beat a top notch player, and i dominated him.  So take that !!!  Who cares if his way of doing it was "over the top"  i mean come on, its guys in a octagon beating the crap out of each other lol.


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## MJS (Jul 13, 2009)

I guess I'm confused on the booing as well.  What did the fans expect?  Seeing that all of Brocks wins to date, have been via punches, this goes to show that he still, despite his size, strength and overall dominance, has a long way to go.  In other words, yes, the G&P is fun to watch, but come on....where did the technical aspect go?  That was one of the things I liked about Royce.  Despite his size and being in what seemed like bad positions, he still worked for the arm lock, choke, etc.  It was a more technical fight than what we see today.  So, were the fans expecting a sub. from Brock?  Remember the wrestlers that we saw back in those days, such as Severn and Coleman....not until later in their game, did we see submission attempts.  IMO, Brock again, did nothing different than we've seen from other fighters..the G&P.

And again, I can't seem to recall as much fuss being made over the others that've acted in similar style.  99% of what we see, and I think this is where non-MMA people get the sour taste about MMA, is hype.  Look at the WWE.  Its like a soap opera.  What I mean is, usually before one of their PPV events, something "big" happens on the weekly show, to leave the viewers on the edge of their seat, wondering what'll happen, and they know the only way they'll find out, is if they shell out the $$ to get the PPV, and ya know what?  They shell out the $$$. LOL!  Just like the UFC fans shell out the cash every month or so.  

I don't care what Dana says....it couldn't have bothered him that much, otherwise, every time there is a TUF show on, he'd be getting pissed at the childish antics that we see of those UFC hopefuls.  Yes, Brock flipped off the crowd....and how many TUF hopefuls, drink, fight, swear and act like total idiots?  I think I'd need another set of arms to count.  

I think if Brock continues to work on his submission game as well as standup, he'll really be a force to reckon with.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 13, 2009)

Brock didn't start off acting like that. It's been developing since his debut. 

He showed a lot of respect, especially to Couture, in the beginning.  

I think he's just reacting to the fans and a lot of the fighters being so hard on him and questioning his skills. He's been fighting an uphill battle since day one due to his prior involvement with the WWE. Nobody seems to remember the guy was a collegiate wrestling champion. 

I personally loved watching him beat the crap out of Mir after hearing all the garbage he said about Brock. If Dana's gonna allow and encourage trash-talking on that level to promote the fights, then he can't say a word about the aftermath that results. IMHO


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## Stac3y (Jul 13, 2009)

MJS said:


> I guess I'm confused on the booing as well. What did the fans expect?


 
I was watching with a large group of people, and we all felt that the booing was because Lesner continued to punch Mir in the face after it was very, very obvious that Mir was out. It was overly brutal, IMO, even for UFC. (Though I must say I'm a newbie UFC watcher.) Plus, Lesner is a big, ugly, scary mofo, and Mir's kinda cute (sorry, my ovaries are talking.) Mir's behavior after the fight was commendable, as far as I'm concerned. However, I did hear that Mir was talking trash before the fight, though I didn't hear it myself.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think there should be honor and respect involved in sporting competitions. Trash talking disgusts me. I don't have a problem with competitors saying that they intend to win, or showing that they are pumped up for the fight, but this insult stuff is obnoxious. These guys are on display to the world--they should show their best side.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 13, 2009)

Mir didn't look so cute afterwards though. LOL 

I did hear all the smack he was talking and IMHO, he asked for it.


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## d1jinx (Jul 13, 2009)

I take it none of you saw the interview after the fight.  Brock humbled up and apologized for his actions after the fight.  He was obviously trying to save face and even had a bud light in front of him.  He flat out said Dana came and had a face to face with him in the locker room.  Pretty interesting.  But also understandable.  He did a good job explaining his actions and I can understand them.  I really didnt see it as that big of a deal, but when the boss speaks, the troops fall in!  But did you see mir's face..............WWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW.  he got knocked the f*** out MAAAAANNNN.


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## crushing (Jul 13, 2009)

Flipping the crowd off, yeah I can understand, they were down on him.
Swearing is pain relief as discussed in another thread.
Stomping around the cage, yes, he is still cooling down from an adrenaline rush.  
But championing a yellow fizzy American macro brew?  Unforgivable!

lol


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## Carol (Jul 13, 2009)

crushing said:


> Flipping the crowd off, yeah I can understand, they were down on him.
> Swearing is pain relief as discussed in another thread.
> Stomping around the cage, yes, he is still cooling down from an adrenaline rush.
> But championing a yellow fizzy American macro brew?  Unforgivable!
> ...



Quoted For Truth!!  :roflmao:


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## Marginal (Jul 13, 2009)

Dana, Mir, a Coors rep, and Brock in a Hell in the Cell match. That'll settle things.


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## searcher (Jul 13, 2009)

I think that it is all a small thing.   Fedor is reportedly coming and he has BL in his sights.   If it does happen, Brock will be forgotten in no time.    After 4 or 5 rematches, to confirm that Fedor is the undisputed.


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## searcher (Jul 13, 2009)

Marginal said:


> Dana, Mir, a Coors rep, and Brock in a Hell in the Cell match. That'll settle things.


 

I am putting money on the Coors rep, unless they throw a BL rep in the mix as well.    Then itis anyones game.


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## MJS (Jul 13, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I was watching with a large group of people, and we all felt that the booing was because Lesner continued to punch Mir in the face after it was very, very obvious that Mir was out. It was overly brutal, IMO, even for UFC. (Though I must say I'm a newbie UFC watcher.) Plus, Lesner is a big, ugly, scary mofo, and Mir's kinda cute (sorry, my ovaries are talking.) Mir's behavior after the fight was commendable, as far as I'm concerned. However, I did hear that Mir was talking trash before the fight, though I didn't hear it myself.
> 
> Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think there should be honor and respect involved in sporting competitions. Trash talking disgusts me. I don't have a problem with competitors saying that they intend to win, or showing that they are pumped up for the fight, but this insult stuff is obnoxious. These guys are on display to the world--they should show their best side.


 
I'll have to watch the fight again.  I think that the refs that they have do a great job, and IMO, part of their job is fighter safety and knowing when to stop the fight.  I've seen some fights where one guy has actually looked towards the ref with the "Are you going to stop this fight or do I have to keep pounding the guy" look.  

I taped the fight but got home from work in time to see the last half of the first round, so any smack talking was missed by me.  However, I still maintain that past actions of fighters have shown that this happens all the time.  It just strikes me odd, that so much fuss is being made about it by the media.


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## Carol (Jul 14, 2009)

MJS said:


> However, I still maintain that past actions of fighters have shown that this happens all the time.  It just strikes me odd, that so much fuss is being made about it by the media.



Since Saturday was the 100th UFC match, the UFC themselves made a lot more fuss and a lot more hype over the match than the matches that have happened before.  In return, I think there were more eyes on the match.

In addition, MMA fighting, while very popular, does not have the establishment that other sports do in the U.S., including boxing.   I think as it gains in popularity, so will the scrutiny...particularly if viewers continue to skew to the younger side of the age bracket.


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## girlbug2 (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, UFC will make even more money if it starts down that road. It's known as appealing to the lowest common denominator. WWF, here we come.

Don't laugh at me...I have always watched UFC primarily because I thought it was the one televised fight that I could count on to have some semblance of class and dignity. 

As a female, I was turned off by Brock's remark about his wife. If UFC is looking to alienate female viewers and make this a macho he-man's fight show, by all means, it should encourage behavior like Brock's.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 14, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> Yeah, UFC will make even more money if it starts down that road. It's known as appealing to the lowest common denominator. WWF, here we come.
> 
> Don't laugh at me...I have always watched UFC primarily because I thought it was the one televised fight that I could count on to have some semblance of class and dignity.
> 
> As a female, I was turned off by Brock's remark about his wife. If UFC is looking to alienate female viewers and make this a macho he-man's fight show, by all means, it should encourage behavior like Brock's.



No doubt about it they probably lost some female viewership after this UFC. 

Lesnar is an athlete/actor.  Do not forget that he was paid to act in big time wrestling.  Personally I think he realized that fans are not going to like him.  He is the big beast and so he and his wife and a few others probably decided to take on the bad guy image and really go after it.  it is to bad and it takes away some what from the great comradeship and sportsmanship that other athletes show.  However, he is just one UFC fighter so hopefully this will not really blow up!


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## Carol (Jul 14, 2009)

Its a least common denominator draw.  There are obnoxious knuckleheads out there that will do anything for attention that may tune in just to see these dudes cut up for the camera.

Is it more money for the UFC?  Could be, but that also means that pays more attention to the trash talk and drama than they do the quality and content of the fights.  That takes away the motivation for putting on a decent match...which is what MMA fighting is supposed to be about.  

The media in general loves drama queens, and as long as the UFC fighters are willing to distract from their ring performances with there pre-fight and post-fight emoting, the less attention is going to be paid to the fight itself.  Its the UFC's call as to what balance they want.  I hope in the end its something I want to buy.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 14, 2009)

remember Brock had a stint in the  pro wrestling world.  they teach you how to work a crowd. They teach you how to get people to love or hate you. They teach you how to get people to pay good money to see you get your head knocked off.
Are his antics good for his image NO
did most people like him anyway  NO
are more people going to tune in to see him get beat YES
dose he realy give a damn what people think:  good question but I think he would rather get big money than be a fan favorite


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## SensibleManiac (Jul 14, 2009)

The reason the crowd booed Lesnar was because he approached Mir as he was just beginning to get up after the fight was stopped and this was very unsportsmanlike and in my opinion very inexcusable.
He beat the guy, adding insult to injury by approaching him in a hostile way is just plain stupid.
I firmly believe that there is no room for this type of image in MMA.
It's a combat sport and that'S the beauty of it, the minute fighters start disrespecting each other to the point of attacking each other after the match it degenerates into stupidity and everyone against the sport will have fuel for their opposition.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 14, 2009)

MJS said:


> A few related articles on the UFC 100 and Brock.
> http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dw-lesnar071209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
> 
> 
> ...


 

1) Flipping off the crowd. 

This was done by those before the current owners and with the current owners, Zuffa Inc. 

2) Taunting the opponent after the fight.

This has been done as well by others. 

3) Insulting one of the prime promoters / advertisers

I am not sure if this has been done before. I know that none approved wear and products have been removed before the fights or not allowed in the ring. 

4) Making a off color comment about his Wife.

I am not sure that others have done this or not. I do not remember. So either I did not find it offensive or I did not see it. 


I think the issue with the advertiser and money in Dana's pocket and the fact that the other three by themselves might have been ignored or allowed with a wave of the hand, but with all of them, it just seemed to cross a line. 


Now me personally, I do not like nor do I respect Brock Lesnar. But that is my option as a fan. I think he should be fined. I also think if Budwieser paid for an exclusive rights for beer and since another name brand was mentioned by one of the UFC fighters then I think Brock should be responsible for refunding the exclusive monies paid to Zuffa Inc. by Budwieser. Note: I do not drink Bud, but I do respect contracts. 

I did hear that Brock was walking around with a Bud in his hand, after his talk from Dana. So, a threat as I mentioned may have been made, where I would have had Brock or anyone walk around with the product, I would have them take their payday and more if required and refund the advertiser. This would make a statement on what was allowed and what is not.


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## MJS (Jul 14, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Since Saturday was the 100th UFC match, the UFC themselves made a lot more fuss and a lot more hype over the match than the matches that have happened before. In return, I think there were more eyes on the match.


 
True.



> In addition, MMA fighting, while very popular, does not have the establishment that other sports do in the U.S., including boxing. I think as it gains in popularity, so will the scrutiny...particularly if viewers continue to skew to the younger side of the age bracket.


 
I don't know....after 16yrs, I think its pretty established, as I dont think any of the main groups, ie: UFC, Pride, are closing up shop any time soon.


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## MJS (Jul 14, 2009)

girlbug2 said:


> Yeah, UFC will make even more money if it starts down that road. It's known as appealing to the lowest common denominator. WWF, here we come.
> 
> Don't laugh at me...I have always watched UFC primarily because I thought it was the one televised fight that I could count on to have some semblance of class and dignity.
> 
> As a female, I was turned off by Brock's remark about his wife. If UFC is looking to alienate female viewers and make this a macho he-man's fight show, by all means, it should encourage behavior like Brock's.


 
But, thats the thing....every TUF show that I've seen and many UFCs that I've seen, have all had the antics that were displayed in 100, so again, thats why I don't see what the fuss is.  As for his comment, I don't think that it was anything negative directed towards his wife or women in general.


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## tallgeese (Jul 14, 2009)

And through all of this Zuffa is laughing all the way to the bank.  Negative publicity?  Who cares, look how much discussion his behavior has generated.

They're probably already crunching numbers on the ppv sales of his next fight.


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## MJS (Jul 15, 2009)

SensibleManiac said:


> The reason the crowd booed Lesnar was because he approached Mir as he was just beginning to get up after the fight was stopped and this was very unsportsmanlike and in my opinion very inexcusable.
> He beat the guy, adding insult to injury by approaching him in a hostile way is just plain stupid.
> I firmly believe that there is no room for this type of image in MMA.
> It's a combat sport and that'S the beauty of it, the minute fighters start disrespecting each other to the point of attacking each other after the match it degenerates into stupidity and everyone against the sport will have fuel for their opposition.


 
While this may be the case, this again, was nothing different than other fighters have done, with, IMO, less of a fiasco.  Seems to me that some, not necessarily people here, are looking at this, as if it never happened before...it has, many times.  How many times has Tito and Ken Shamrock had words, got in each others face, etc.?  Quite a few.  

The image of MMA??  I'll point again, to TUF.  What about the image that a bunch of 20-something, UFC hopefuls, is projecting, when you see them swear constantly, drink, and fight, and act like a bunch of classless asses?  

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big MMA fan.  I'm simply saying that it seems like people are making a mountain out of a molehill.


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## MJS (Jul 15, 2009)

Rich Parsons said:


> 1) Flipping off the crowd.
> 
> This was done by those before the current owners and with the current owners, Zuffa Inc.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed.



> 3) Insulting one of the prime promoters / advertisers
> 
> I am not sure if this has been done before. I know that none approved wear and products have been removed before the fights or not allowed in the ring.


 
No idea.



> 4) Making a off color comment about his Wife.
> 
> I am not sure that others have done this or not. I do not remember. So either I did not find it offensive or I did not see it.


 
Don't recall hearing a comment like that before.  It was made as he was making his exit from the ring.  Likewise, I wasn't offended by it either.  I didn't take it as anything directed at females in general, nor did I take it as him hinting that he abuses his wife.  As for the comment effecting female MMA fans....I highly doubt that'll happen, given the large female population in the crowd.





> Now me personally, I do not like nor do I respect Brock Lesnar. But that is my option as a fan. I think he should be fined. I also think if Budwieser paid for an exclusive rights for beer and since another name brand was mentioned by one of the UFC fighters then I think Brock should be responsible for refunding the exclusive monies paid to Zuffa Inc. by Budwieser. Note: I do not drink Bud, but I do respect contracts.
> 
> I did hear that Brock was walking around with a Bud in his hand, after his talk from Dana. So, a threat as I mentioned may have been made, where I would have had Brock or anyone walk around with the product, I would have them take their payday and more if required and refund the advertiser. This would make a statement on what was allowed and what is not.


 
I've only heard that rumor online, regarding walking around with a beer, so I can't comment on that.  Personally, in the beginning, I felt that Brock, who was new to MMA, should not have been fighting top ranked guys.  Seems like he climbed to the top very quick.  As I said, with more time, I'm sure he'll be more of a force to deal with.  Do I respect him?  I tip my hat to all of those guys that get in the ring.  Its not for everyone.  There are some fighters that I like more than others.  Brock is making his way into my top 10, but he's not quite at the upper half yet.


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## MJS (Jul 15, 2009)

tallgeese said:


> And through all of this Zuffa is laughing all the way to the bank. Negative publicity? Who cares, look how much discussion his behavior has generated.
> 
> They're probably already crunching numbers on the ppv sales of his next fight.


 
Exactly!  I mean, when you think about the PPV sales, the sold out arena, and I'm sure tickets were not cheap, in addition to all of the other sales, ie: food, t-shirts, etc., we're talking about some serious cash!


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## Stac3y (Jul 15, 2009)

MJS said:


> As for his comment, I don't think that it was anything negative directed towards his wife or women in general.


 
It was tacky, crass, and disrespectful of his wife. If my husband said something like that in public, I would be humiliated and furious.


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## crushing (Jul 15, 2009)

So you don't have to go googling for the comment to see how crude, crass, or disrespectful it is:

"Hell, I may even get on top of my wife tonight. - Brock Lesnar

Reminds me of this character:


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## bowser666 (Jul 15, 2009)

crushing said:


> so you don't have to go googling for the comment to see how crude, crass, or disrespectful it is:
> 
> "hell, i may even get on top of my wife tonight. - brock lesnar
> 
> reminds me of this character:




"bow to your sensei !!"


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## MJS (Jul 16, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> It was tacky, crass, and disrespectful of his wife. If my husband said something like that in public, I would be humiliated and furious.


 
While this may be the case, I can think of quite a few other things that I've seen that would fall into those categories.


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## Stac3y (Jul 17, 2009)

MJS said:


> While this may be the case, I can think of quite a few other things that I've seen that would fall into those categories.


 
That doesn't make it any less offensive, IMO.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 17, 2009)

crushing said:


> So you don't have to go googling for the comment to see how crude, crass, or disrespectful it is:
> 
> "Hell, I may even get on top of my wife tonight. - Brock Lesnar
> 
> Reminds me of this character:


 
Grab my hand...no, the other hand...no, with your other hand...now break the wrist and walk away.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> That doesn't make it any less offensive, IMO.


 
I guess what I was trying to say was....if we look at all the 'in your face' posturing, by grown men, the swearing, the hand gestures, the childish antics by the UFC wannabes in the TUF shows, music videos with sexual content, the clothing that some people wear, what he did is no more offensive than any of that other stuff.

I'm of the belief that if you dont want to hear music, where every other word is ****, then don't buy it.  If you don't like the clothing that some people wear, dont shop in those stores.  If you dont like what is shown on TUF and UFC, dont watch it.  But, understand that there is nothing that we can do about it, other than just deal with it.  Trust me, my wife has seen more than her share of slender and not so slender girls wearing jeans that show off the top of their ***, complete with thong, and she's not offended.  She may give a roll of her eyes but thats it.  She goes about her business.  I've pulled up along side of a car with loud rap music blasting, complete with **** this, and **** that, and laugh, and wonder to myself, if this driver knows how dumb they look, due to the fact that 99% of the time, the stereo system is worth 10times what the car is. LOL.  But I'm not offended by it.  I just continue on my way.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 17, 2009)

I find it offensive that two sweaty half-naked men would roll around on the ground together.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> I find it offensive that two sweaty half-naked men would roll around on the ground together.


 
:lfao::lol:


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## Stac3y (Jul 17, 2009)

MJS said:


> I guess what I was trying to say was....if we look at all the 'in your face' posturing, by grown men, the swearing, the hand gestures, the childish antics by the UFC wannabes in the TUF shows, music videos with sexual content, the clothing that some people wear, what he did is no more offensive than any of that other stuff.
> 
> I'm of the belief that if you dont want to hear music, where every other word is ****, then don't buy it. If you don't like the clothing that some people wear, dont shop in those stores. If you dont like what is shown on TUF and UFC, dont watch it. But, understand that there is nothing that we can do about it, other than just deal with it. Trust me, my wife has seen more than her share of slender and not so slender girls wearing jeans that show off the top of their ***, complete with thong, and she's not offended. She may give a roll of her eyes but thats it. She goes about her business. I've pulled up along side of a car with loud rap music blasting, complete with **** this, and **** that, and laugh, and wonder to myself, if this driver knows how dumb they look, due to the fact that 99% of the time, the stereo system is worth 10times what the car is. LOL. But I'm not offended by it. I just continue on my way.


 
People's clothing and music choices have no relationship to making disrespectful remarks specifically about one's wife in public. That's not a valid comparison, IMO. Not that I especially enjoy much rap music; some of it is very clever and well-written, though. And I rarely go around with my undies hanging out, but I don't care if anyone else does--it makes people-watching more fun. 

I'm not delusional; I don't think I can stop UFC guys from acting like donkeys; nor would I try. Hell, I'm a librarian. I don't DO censorship. I can, however, state my opinion of their behavior, and judge their character by their behavior. I still think that the "in your face" stuff is stupid, and degrades the sport and the competitors who choose to behave that way. And I would happily tell them that to their faces, given an opportunity--in a respectful, courteous manner, of course.


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## Stac3y (Jul 17, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> I find it offensive that two sweaty half-naked men would roll around on the ground together.


 
I find that the opposite of offensive. :angel:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 17, 2009)

Well if I read Brock's wife right then she was not offended at all and actually probably enjoyed it.  Remember they were entertainer's in the wrestling world long before they joined the UFC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Now having said that it does not make what he said, did right.  No he will be judged exactly by his actions and will or will not pay a price for it.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> People's clothing and music choices have no relationship to making disrespectful remarks specifically about one's wife in public. That's not a valid comparison, IMO. Not that I especially enjoy much rap music; some of it is very clever and well-written, though. And I rarely go around with my undies hanging out, but I don't care if anyone else does--it makes people-watching more fun.
> 
> I'm not delusional; I don't think I can stop UFC guys from acting like donkeys; nor would I try. Hell, I'm a librarian. I don't DO censorship. I can, however, state my opinion of their behavior, and judge their character by their behavior. I still think that the "in your face" stuff is stupid, and degrades the sport and the competitors who choose to behave that way. And I would happily tell them that to their faces, given an opportunity--in a respectful, courteous manner, of course.


 
But see, this is what I'm talking about....people making a mountain out of a molehill comment.  The guy said he might go home tonight and get on top of his wife.  So the guy said on national television that he might have sex with his wife tonight.  *GASP*  Please, thats nothing to get offended over.  

He did nothing different than any of the other UFC fighters havent already done or said.  And yes, the other things I said are a valid comparison, due to the fact that you said you were offended at the comment he made about his wife, yet regardless of how well written some rap is, have you ever really listened to the words?  That doesnt offend you, but Brock saying that he was going to get on top of his wife does?  I'm lost on that.  

Like I said, this was one thing, and people are freaking out over it, yet those same people seem to forget past incidents.  You said that you're a UFC newbie.  I've been watching it since day 1.  Trust me when I say, this comment was nothing.  You should watch some past fights.  The fighters actions were no worse, and I can't recall as much stink being raised as this fight has caused.  Ever watch Dana when he's upset about something, a fighter, etc?  Every other word out of his mouth is bleeped out....and this is the owner of the UFC.  Hmm...nice image he's showing.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I find that the opposite of offensive. :angel:


 
Would you be offended if it were 2 women or a male and female?


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 17, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I find that the opposite of offensive. :angel:


 
LOL, no doubt others feel the same. 

That's my point, what's offensive to some isn't to others. Society has become so extrememly thin skinned that you can't breathe without offending somebody.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

celtic_crippler said:


> LOL, no doubt others feel the same.
> 
> That's my point, what's offensive to some isn't to others. Society has become so extrememly thin skinned that you can't breathe without offending somebody.


 
Exactly, and this is the reason why I dont see what the fuss is.  Offensive things are all around us.  The point I was trying to make that was apparently missed when I spoke of clothing, was while I may not be offended by what someone wears, someone else might.  

Due to the fact that no matter what the offended person says, probably won't make a bit of difference anyways, if someone is that easily offended, they need to either accept it and deal or become some recluse in their house, never leaving or turning on the tv or radio.


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## Stac3y (Jul 17, 2009)

MJS said:


> Would you be offended if it were 2 women or a male and female?


 
Nope. Why would I be offended by people grappling?


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 17, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> Nope. Why would I be offended by people grappling?


 
Why would you be offended by Brock?


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## K831 (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm not for the politically correct, thin skinned attitude that keeps people in this country from saying something because it "might" offend someone else. 

I'm also not for the ridiculous idea that we must have "tolerance of EVERYTHING" no matter how inappropriate, disgusting, disrespectful, immoral etc.  

I agree with some of what both parties are saying; 

I may not be "personally offended" by someones choice of music, but if I find it "offensive", and they lack the respect to turn it down in a public place, then I don't feel the need to be PC or "tolerant" of their disrespect. 

Same thing with Broc... silly to take his actions personally and be offended. But if people find them offensive, well then, they should be able to take a stand for what was once considered common decency, respect and professionalism. That message doesn't get sent out enough, especially to the youth these days. 

The notion of being PC or over-tolerant is why society continues to degrade itself and no one will say a thing about it.


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## Nolerama (Jul 17, 2009)

I guess in the end, Lesnar sprinkled the MMA world with his WWE-tainted brand of douche-baggery and will make his next loss that much sweeter.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

K831 said:


> I'm not for the politically correct, thin skinned attitude that keeps people in this country from saying something because it "might" offend someone else.
> 
> I'm also not for the ridiculous idea that we must have "tolerance of EVERYTHING" no matter how inappropriate, disgusting, disrespectful, immoral etc.
> 
> ...


 
You're right and I'm not saying that people dont have the right to be offended.  I'm simply saying that this, IMO, was not the end of the world, as some are making it to be.  I find it hard to believe that someone is going to be that offended by this comment, and as it was said, his wife, at least at the time, didn't seem to be bothered by it, yet we have seen Tito flip off the entire Shamrock camp, people get mocked while they lay unconscious, etc.  

In the end, regardless of what anyone thinks, its unlikely that their views will change the sport or the way people act.  If the UFC offends that many people, then those that're offended simply need not buy it.  Afterall, it is PPV.


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## K831 (Jul 17, 2009)

Nolerama said:


> I guess in the end, Lesnar sprinkled the MMA world with his WWE-tainted brand of douche-baggery and will make his next loss that much sweeter.



Nuff said! Something we can agree on.


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## Joab (Jul 17, 2009)

It's one of my main problems with UFC. Traditionally, martial artists who competed have shown a lot of respect towards others, with deep bows towards each other and the like. The kind of behaviour exhibited by many in UFC gives martial arts a bad name. They need to quit allowing this kind of boorish behaviour.


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## fangjian (Jul 17, 2009)

The problem was Brock being a jerk to Frank when the fight was over.  Many of these athletes are class acts, like GSP and Randy Couture who are nothing but respectful to their opponents and the fans.  

And to those that are saying this is nothing new, they are right but usually those other guys get booed by the crowd too.  Brock got booed for being a jerk.  Melvin Guillard got booed for saying Gabe Ruediger had a soft stomach(after getting KO'd by a body shot).   Nobody likes that *****. 

And those TUF guys.  Yeah many of them do act like morons. Chris Leben peeing on someones gear, etc.  

Brock said "I'm gonna get on top of my wife tonight"- I said "hahaha, what a deuche:

Brock said "I'm gonna have a Coors Light because...."  I said "hahaha, what a deuche"

Brock taunted Frank and tried to get in his face after it was already over.  I said HOLY, What a *****in DEUCHE!!!!!!!


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2009)

4 pages later, and I'm still wondering why there is so much fuss over UFC 100. I don't recall articles saying that Tank was a jerk or whatever other words you'd like to use, when he mimicked John Matua(sp) after he pounded him in UFC6. What about the Tito and Shamrock battles, when Tito would mock Ken, flip him off? Its not the job of the fighter to stop when he's pounding someone, its the job of the ref, to ensure fighter safety. Hmmm...what about UFC 2, when Remco Pardoel repeatedly elbowed Orlando Weit? Again, Brock didn't do anything different. What about the quick finish with Pat Smith and Scott Morris? Scott was a bloody mess, who fell back down to the mat again, after trying to stand up. It was pretty clear that Emmanual Yarborough was not defending himself when Keith Hackney was using his hand like a club on Mannys head. Keith didn't stop until the ref jumped in. Hmm...watch this from 5min on. Look at the repeated taps on both the mat and on Royce, yet he still continued to choke. UFC 2, Gracie vs. Delucia. Royce won by armlock, yet held onto that lock, causing further injury to Jasons arm, which was also commented on by the commentators.

So please, the reasons why the crowed booed Brock are once again, no different than anything that we havent seen many times. Did these people get booed? Was there a big to-do about those things like there was about Brock? Nope, none that I can recall. And if there was, it was nothing on the scale that this is being made to be. 

Talking trash....hmm...check this out:




 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V6R3dG20g&feature=related

Oh, heres that Tank clip I was talking about.




 
5:55 he was clearly out, yet seconds later, he got hit again by Tank.


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## fangjian (Jul 17, 2009)

hahaha.  Those guys are a bunch of knuckleheads too.  Tito, Tank, they always get booed by me.


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## JDenver (Jul 17, 2009)

K831 said:


> The notion of being PC or over-tolerant is why society continues to degrade itself and no one will say a thing about it.



Ever notice that the only folks who use words like 'pc' are the ones who know, deep down, that some of the things they say are ignorant, disrespectful and could easily be taken as hurtful?  Political correctness is a great way to imitate being a truth seeker.

It's not about being 'pc', a term that has no useable definition, but about common decency and respect for people.

By the by, dudes like Lesnar are why dudes like me have distaste for MMA.  Well, that and the Rampage Jackson interview where he molested that girl===a move that his boss found 'funny'.  Stay classy UFC.


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## fangjian (Jul 18, 2009)

JDenver said:


> By the by, dudes like Lesnar are why dudes like me have distaste for MMA. Well, that and the Rampage Jackson interview where he molested that girl===a move that his boss found 'funny'. Stay classy UFC.


 
Bunch of morons.


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## elder999 (Jul 18, 2009)

JDenver said:


> Well, that and the Rampage Jackson interview where he molested that girl===a move that his boss found 'funny'. Stay classy UFC.


 

Which one? The one where with the ring-girl, or the one in Japan? See, _he does that_. Doesn't make it right, proper, or appropriate, but it is something that seems to get blown off by most of the people involved.


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## MJS (Jul 18, 2009)

fangjian said:


> hahaha. Those guys are a bunch of knuckleheads too. Tito, Tank, they always get booed by me.


 
Umm..I never said that they didn't get booed. I'm saying that despite all of their antics, nobody seems to blow that out of proportion like some are doing with UFC 100.


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## fangjian (Jul 18, 2009)

MJS said:


> Umm..I never said that they didn't get booed. I'm saying that despite all of their antics, nobody seems to blow that out of proportion like some are doing with UFC 100.


 I think it's just because there are more people watching now.  Everybody tuned in for UFC 100.  A lot of people don't know about these other moments in MMA ( Tito flippin off The Lions Den, Royce breakin Jason's Delucia's arm), because they weren't there since the beginning like some of us.

More viewers, more opinions.


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## fangjian (Jul 18, 2009)

Plus,  Tito was a nobody back then. Brock is the Champ, and usually people like when stars act like they are normal people.  

Royce broke Jason's arm back in '94.  In those days, the UFC was kind of a freak show with barely any rules, and was not the respected (by some people at least )  sport(MMA) it is today.   

If I could have it my way there would also be a rule stopping fights if they get *too* bloody.  I think it hurts the image of MMA. In many peoples views, when they see a picture of the Joe Stevenson and BJ Penn fight, to them , it looks more like some bloody cock fight and not a respected sport.

All of these things kind of hurt the image of MMA, IMO.


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## Stac3y (Jul 19, 2009)

I just wanted to say that, by saying that a behavior is offensive, I am stating an opinion about that behavior. That doesn't mean I'm "blowing it out of proportion", or calling for Brock Lesnar's head on a pike, or anything else extreme. Just as Lesnar has a right to act like an @ss, I have a right to express my opinion that he's acting like one. 

Those of you who were offended by my calling his behavior offensive have a right to be, also. But please don't take it personally; I'm not talking about you, after all. And it's not going to prevent me from saying what I think, in a respectful, courteous way, of course. 
:angel:


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## theletch1 (Jul 19, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I just wanted to say that, by saying that a behavior is offensive, I am stating an opinion about that behavior. That doesn't mean I'm "blowing it out of proportion", or calling for Brock Lesnar's head on a pike, or anything else extreme. Just as Lesnar has a right to act like an @ss, I have a right to express my opinion that he's acting like one.
> 
> Those of you who were offended by my calling his behavior offensive have a right to be, also. But please don't take it personally; I'm not talking about you, after all. And it's not going to prevent me from saying what I think, in a respectful, courteous way, of course.
> :angel:


 Excellent post.  The entire point of the thread was to get opinions on what others thought of Brock's behavior.  That, in and of itself, requires that we express what we, as individuals, believe is acceptable behavior.  Me?  I guess I'm not a big fan of anything less than completely honorable behavior in competition.  I'm also a stick in the mud about a lot of other things... or so my kids tell me.  I won't stop watching the fights unless this behavior becomes the norm for most fighters.  It's not a first but certainly out of the ordinary or else we wouldn't be discussing it.  I don't watch the reality show for that reason.  It's more about childish behavior that I'd find completely unacceptable for myself or my kids so I simply don't watch.  If the regular fights become more theatrics than fights then I'll stop watching.


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## Carol (Jul 19, 2009)

"There's nothing more violent about the times we're in now, they're just more televised." - Marilyn Manson

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.28.01/manson-0126.html


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## MJS (Jul 19, 2009)

fangjian said:


> Plus, Tito was a nobody back then. Brock is the Champ, and usually people like when stars act like they are normal people.


 
Tito has been around alot longer than Brock, and initially, this is one of the things that ticks me off.  The fact that they put Brock, with little MMA background, against some top ranked people.  IMO, I think that if you're new to MMA, especially the UFC, you need to work your way up the foodchain.  He's only the champ because he got fast-tracked.



> Royce broke Jason's arm back in '94. In those days, the UFC was kind of a freak show with barely any rules, and was not the respected (by some people at least ) sport(MMA) it is today.


 
Yeah, there were ALOT less rules than what we see today.  



> If I could have it my way there would also be a rule stopping fights if they get *too* bloody. I think it hurts the image of MMA. In many peoples views, when they see a picture of the Joe Stevenson and BJ Penn fight, to them , it looks more like some bloody cock fight and not a respected sport.
> 
> All of these things kind of hurt the image of MMA, IMO.


 
Usually they do.  IMO, there is more emphasis on fighter safety than in past or should I say earlier shows.  I also think that the image of the UFC, in addition to martial arts in general is SERIOUSLY distorted, due to the fact that many people have no idea what the hell they're talking about.  They see some B-rated MA flick on tv, and assume that is what its like.  People running around making Bruce Lee sounds.


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## MJS (Jul 19, 2009)

Stac3y said:


> I just wanted to say that, by saying that a behavior is offensive, I am stating an opinion about that behavior. That doesn't mean I'm "blowing it out of proportion", or calling for Brock Lesnar's head on a pike, or anything else extreme. Just as Lesnar has a right to act like an @ss, I have a right to express my opinion that he's acting like one.


 
Never said that you couldn't voice your opinion.  I'm just saying that people need to take past actions into consideration as well.  I don't think its fair to single out one person, when there've been countless cases of the same things. 



> Those of you who were offended by my calling his behavior offensive have a right to be, also. But please don't take it personally; I'm not talking about you, after all. And it's not going to prevent me from saying what I think, in a respectful, courteous way, of course.
> :angel:


 
No, I'm not taking it personally.   And as I said above, you're entitled to your opinions.  Again, I'm just trying to point out similar cases, as I am getting the impression that people think that this is the first time this has ever happened.  I think some are looking at it like, "OMG, I can't believe he said that!!!!!"


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## fangjian (Jul 19, 2009)

MJS said:


> Tito has been around alot longer than Brock, and initially, this is one of the things that ticks me off. The fact that they put Brock, with little MMA background, against some top ranked people. IMO, I think that if you're new to MMA, especially the UFC, you need to work your way up the foodchain. He's only the champ because he got fast-tracked.


 
Unbelievable.  He only had two fights in the UFC before his title shot, and one of those *he lost*.  UFC sucks.


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## MJS (Jul 19, 2009)

fangjian said:


> Unbelievable. He only had two fights in the UFC before his title shot, and one of those *he lost*. UFC sucks.


 
IMO, its all about the $$$$$$.  Dana probably saw some opportunity, seeing that Brock did have a wrestling career, and figured with his size and strength, it'd make for some interesting fights.  So he fights Mir twice, losing the first to a leg lock.  He also beat Randy, which I was sorry to see, but in any case, seeing that Randy is, IMO, one of the top guys, why did he get a shot at him, instead of fighting someone who is still in the lower end of the pool?


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## fangjian (Jul 20, 2009)

MJS said:


> IMO, its all about the $$$$$$. Dana probably saw some opportunity, seeing that Brock did have a wrestling career, and figured with his size and strength, it'd make for some interesting fights. So he fights Mir twice, losing the first to a leg lock. He also beat Randy, which I was sorry to see, but in any case, seeing that Randy is, IMO, one of the top guys, why did he get a shot at him, instead of fighting someone who is still in the lower end of the pool?


 
The whole thing might have been different if Randy didn't try to leave the UFC and then come back.  If that hadn't happened, Mir likely would've fought him after he beat Nogueira.  So, besides Mir and Noguiera, who could've fought Randy?  Cro Cop? No. Cheick Kongo and Cain Velasquez were tied up for UFC 99.  So I guess the only likely fighter was Lesner since he just came off a win. The logistics involved in timing these events must be a pain in the ***.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Jul 20, 2009)

No in regards to Lesnar fighting Couture I believe it was probably more payback from Dana.  Couture wanted to fight Fedor and wanted to leave if I am correct and they took his title thus the whole Mir interim title.  Lesnar was and is an incredibly bad match up for Couture so Dana stuck it to him.  At least that is the prevalent theory.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 20, 2009)

Based on all the attention it's getting I'd say Brock deserves a bonus. I mean, look how many posts this thread's gotten...lot's of publicity for the UFC.


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## Carol (Jul 20, 2009)

Nothing like martial artists fighting over martial artists fighting


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## Twin Fist (Jul 20, 2009)

MJS said:


> They see some B-rated MA flick on tv, and assume that is what its like.  People running around making Bruce Lee sounds.




now the problem is just the opposite

TODAY people watch the UFC or TUF, and think THAT is martial arts.

it isnt.

it is a SPORT, and has little to no resemblance to a a real fight. No more than a choreographed fight scene does.


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## MJS (Jul 20, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> now the problem is just the opposite
> 
> TODAY people watch the UFC or TUF, and think THAT is martial arts.
> 
> ...


 
Pretty much, yes.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 20, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> now the problem is just the opposite
> 
> TODAY people watch the UFC or TUF, and think THAT is martial arts.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know... I mean...that's _real_ blood they're bleeding... and _real_ teeth getting knocked out... and _real_ bones being broken... 

...sound like a real fight to me. 

But...maybe not! Because that easily describes things that happen in a football game to!!

Man...thought I had you there for a sec...LOL


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## Twin Fist (Jul 20, 2009)

i am way too snakey for you


that being said, we are getting off topic

regarding Lesner's antics, I have no doubt that it was part 
"see? i TOLD you punks i was for real".

and part

"lets work the crowd"

both are understandable to me


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## elder999 (Jul 20, 2009)

Twin Fist said:


> i am way too snakey for you
> 
> 
> that being said, we are getting off topic
> ...


 
It's also worth noting that when Brock fought Couture, there was no smack talk from either side, and he spoke respectully after he won. The other fights, there was smack talk from both sides, and a lot of "WWE _whatever_."

Lesnar had just come off beating Couture, and was beating Mir, and the crowd was actually crying for the ref to "stand them up," when that would *never* take place with any other fighter doing what he was supposed to do.

Hell, I might have fliiped the crowd the bird myself, under those circumstances: they clearly didn't want him to win, and he was dominant throughout-regardless of whatever reason anyon cares to attribute *that* to..

Plus, it will continue to fill seats with people wanting to see him lose-and I don't see that happening for a while, short of Shane Carwin or Fedor, or a really strong lighter heavyweight successfully implementing Couture's strategy, and keeping Lesnar up against the cage and wearing him down....


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