# I'm starting Kickboxing today!



## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

It was not my first choice, but after looking around, everything I wanted was too far away, or otherwise unreachable. So thanks to everyone that helped my during my search!

I know this is off-topic but I wanted to let you know and thank you for your help. So thanks again! I'm pretty psyched!


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

Good luck. Kickboxing is a great style it'll give you a good work out, teach footwork and blocks and punches and kicks. It's not over complicated but it's a good style. If it's western kickboxing it'll be kicks, punches and knees but no elbows or clinch work.


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Good luck. Kickboxing is a great style it'll give you a good work out, teach footwork and blocks and punches and kicks. It's not over complicated but it's a good style. If it's western kickboxing it'll be kicks, punches and knees but no elbows or clinch work.



Sadly, I believe it's Western. But we'll see. It's good to know there are two kinds [emoji1]


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## CB Jones (May 29, 2017)

Would have loved to have tried kickboxing back in the day.


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Sadly, I believe it's Western. But we'll see. It's good to know there are two kinds [emoji1]


Well there's western and there's Muay Thai. Honestly I find western more exciting to watch because in Thai they can be in a clinch for a whole round not doing much but in western they're throwing strikes the whole time.


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

Here's some examples of western kickboxers.


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Well there's western and there's Muay Thai. Honestly I find western more exciting to watch because in Thai they can be in a clinch for a whole round not doing much but in western they're throwing strikes the whole time.



Yeah MT was a choice too, but it was quite far away. It would have worn me down eventually


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Here's some examples of western kickboxers.



Why are there no elbows there? Doesn't kickboxing have elbows?


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

I knew 2 kinds: American Kickboxing (no kicks below waist) and Japanese Kickboxing (K-1 rules, originally). Saying MT is a kind of Kickboxing may be offensive for some. But of course, there are much in common.


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Why are there no elbows there? Doesn't kickboxing have elbows?


If I am not wrong, elbows can be part of the Kickboxing programme, but rarely allowed in K-1 competitions.


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> If I am not wrong, elbows can be part of the Kickboxing programme, but rarely allowed in K-1 competitions.


PS: These days I think the best promotion is GLORY Kickboxing (in case you want to watch some fights).


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> If I am not wrong, elbows can be part of the Kickboxing programme, but rarely allowed in K-1 competitions.


Any kickboxing I've ever fought in has been no elbows but maybe there is in some I'm just basing it on my experience


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> I knew 2 kinds: American Kickboxing (no kicks below waist) and Japanese Kickboxing (K-1 rules, originally). Saying MT is a kind of Kickboxing may be offensive for some. But of course, there are much in common.


To me it's exactly the same apart from the elbows and the clinch game


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> I knew 2 kinds: American Kickboxing (no kicks below waist) and Japanese Kickboxing (K-1 rules, originally). Saying MT is a kind of Kickboxing may be offensive for some. But of course, there are much in common.



Isn't kickboxing based on MT, Karate and Boxing? That's what Wikipedia says at least.


marques said:


> If I am not wrong, elbows can be part of the Kickboxing programme, but rarely allowed in K-1 competitions.


That makes more sense [emoji1]


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Isn't kickboxing based on MT, Karate and Boxing? That's what Wikipedia says at least.
> 
> That makes more sense [emoji1]


Ah yes good old trustworthy Wikipedia lol but I don't know maybe it is but like I say any kickboxing gym I've trained at has never used elbows and any show I've ever been part of hasn't had them in the rules. Anyway either way kickboxing is a simple enough style to pick up it teaches the basics of fighting very well and lets be honest in a street fight all you need is the basics all the flashy stuff is cool to learn but really a fight will come down to your basic punches and kicks


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Any kickboxing I've ever fought in has been no elbows but maybe there is in some I'm just basing it on my experience


You may be right. After a quick check I found that the "Dutch style" of Kickboxing includes elbows. That was vaguely what I had in mind. But then perhaps never allowed in K-1 rules...


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> You may be right. After a quick check I found that the "Dutch style" of Kickboxing includes elbows. That was vaguely what I had in mind. But then perhaps never allowed in K-1 rules...


Personally I'm not a fan of elbows in competition, elbows are a great weapon for a street fight no doubt but in the ring they're the main of cuts with the grazing elbows and it gets fights stopped and no one wants a fight stopped to cuts.


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Ah yes good old trustworthy Wikipedia lol but I don't know maybe it is but like I say any kickboxing gym I've trained at has never used elbows and any show I've ever been part of hasn't had them in the rules. Anyway either way kickboxing is a simple enough style to pick up it teaches the basics of fighting very well and lets be honest in a street fight all you need is the basics all the flashy stuff is cool to learn but really a fight will come down to your basic punches and kicks


Even if there aren't any elbows, once I know the basics it wouldn't be hard to learn a move or two on my own, I suppose. I was never a fan of the flashy stuff. That's why I abandoned Wing Chun.


marques said:


> You may be right. After a quick check I found that the "Dutch style" of Kickboxing includes elbows. That was vaguely what I had in mind. But then perhaps never allowed in K-1 rules...


Indeed! I'm starting to think the same thing.


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Isn't kickboxing based on MT, Karate and Boxing? That's what Wikipedia says at least.


Well, from my bad memory, both styles I mentioned where developed quite at the same time. American Kickboxing from Karate+Boxing, Japanese Kickboxing from Karate+MT (as a development of Karate because it almost lost to MT in an historic competition...). At least, it is one version of the story. 
Everything can be checked online using these key words, I believe.


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> Well, from my bad memory, both styles I mentioned where developed quite at the same time. American Kickboxing from Karate+Boxing, Japanese Kickboxing from Karate+MT (as a development of Karate because it almost lost to MT in an historic competition...). At least, it is one version of the story.
> Everything can be checked online using these key words, I believe.


Yeah. Sometimes it's sad that the story is so unclear when it comes to ancient martial arts.


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Yeah. Sometimes it's sad that the story is so unclear when it comes to ancient martial arts.


Kickboxing is older than me, that is sure. So I couldn't witness its origins... But it still is one of the most recent styles, isn't it?


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

Also have to say do you actually want to do kickboxing because it seems like from your post it's one of your last options. I only ask because if it's not something you really want to do you may not enjoy it as much be she you're thinking about the styles you want to do and thinking those would be better.


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## Headhunter (May 29, 2017)

marques said:


> Kickboxing is older than me, that is sure. So I couldn't witness its origins... But it still is one of the most recent styles, isn't it?


I may be totally wrong here but wasn't kickboxing mainly started by joe Lewis when he left the point karate scene. I know he was one of the first western kickboxers


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Also have to say do you actually want to do kickboxing because it seems like from your post it's one of your last options. I only ask because if it's not something you really want to do you may not enjoy it as much be she you're thinking about the styles you want to do and thinking those would be better.


I actually had many options:
1-Ninjutsu
2-Hapkido or another hybrid art, like Kajukembo, Bartitsu or JKD
3-Muay Thai or some ground fighting style.
4-Anything that's accessible.

Everything else is like 30 minutes away. I don't like Taekwondo or Karate so this is my only option. It'll have to do for now. I like it though, I just wanted something more balanced, maybe even with weapons.


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## marques (May 29, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> I may be totally wrong here but wasn't kickboxing mainly started by joe Lewis when he left the point karate scene. I know he was one of the first western kickboxers


I remember these names:




It is called Full-Contact Karate, or just Full-Contact for short. "Karate with boxing gloves." For me it is American Kickboxing, and it is _kickboxing_ after several sources. But...
"Closely related to American Kickboxing", after Wiki. I don't know the difference.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 29, 2017)

Congratulations - enjoy it, learn a lot, and be prepared to learn how much you suck at things that look easy (we all had to learn that one).


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Congratulations - enjoy it, learn a lot, and be prepared to learn how much you suck at things that look easy (we all had to learn that one).



Damn I do suck... Seemed... So easy... LOL.

A few thoughts on the dojo...

The structure seemed way too disorganized, so did the class. It was mostly me and a more advanced student teaching me(stance, punches, etc.), and the teacher occasionally swinging by and correcting my mistakes, and giving me one or two guidelines. I don't know if that's good or not but that's what happened. What do you guys think?


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## Gerry Seymour (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Damn I do suck... Seemed... So easy... LOL.
> 
> A few thoughts on the dojo...
> 
> The structure seemed way too disorganized, so did the class. It was mostly me and a more advanced student teaching me(stance, punches, etc.), and the teacher occasionally swinging by and correcting my mistakes, and giving me one or two guidelines. I don't know if that's good or not but that's what happened. What do you guys think?


That's not unusual. New students need a lot of attention, and the instructor has a whole class to deal with. It's not uncommon to assign an experienced student to help get a new student started.


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## That-a-Way (May 29, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> That's not unusual. New students need a lot of attention, and the instructor has a whole class to deal with. It's not uncommon to assign an experienced student to help get a new student started.



Yes I didn't mean it that way. It was more that the teacher didn't really give us any excercises. The student made them up as the class went on. I suppose that's what he did when he began training.


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## Midnight-shadow (May 29, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Why are there no elbows there? Doesn't kickboxing have elbows?



In "San Shou" or Chinese Kickboxing, you can strike in most places, and elbows and knees are allowed. The only stipulation is that if you get your opponent into a clinch you have 5 seconds to perform a takedown, throw or sweep on them before the referee steps in to break you up. The list of illegal techniques are as follows:

Biting.
Head Butts.
Joint Attacks.
Holding and Hitting.
Open Hand Strikes.
Strikes to the Groin.
Strikes to the Knees.
Kicks or Punches to the Spine.
Throws that involve Joint Manipulation.
Kicks or Punches to the back of the Head.


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## Headhunter (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Damn I do suck... Seemed... So easy... LOL.
> 
> A few thoughts on the dojo...
> 
> The structure seemed way too disorganized, so did the class. It was mostly me and a more advanced student teaching me(stance, punches, etc.), and the teacher occasionally swinging by and correcting my mistakes, and giving me one or two guidelines. I don't know if that's good or not but that's what happened. What do you guys think?


That's not disorganised at all. If it was disorganised you'd have had no one teaching you and you'd be left to your own devices but the instructor got someone to work with you and helped you. Plus the head instructor did pay attention to you. If you wanted to work with the instructor the whole class you need to book a private lesson. Just don't forget it's not all about you he's got other people to teach as well. There's not a single martial art club where you get exclusive training with only the instructor you'll almost get some lessons with a senior student.

So apart from that what else was supposedly disorganised


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## Headhunter (May 30, 2017)

Midnight-shadow said:


> In "San Shou" or Chinese Kickboxing, you can strike in most places, and elbows and knees are allowed. The only stipulation is that if you get your opponent into a clinch you have 5 seconds to perform a takedown, throw or sweep on them before the referee steps in to break you up. The list of illegal techniques are as follows:
> 
> Biting.
> Head Butts.
> ...


Damm it those are my best moves lol


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> That's not disorganised at all. If it was disorganised you'd have had no one teaching you and you'd be left to your own devices but the instructor got someone to work with you and helped you. Plus the head instructor did pay attention to you. If you wanted to work with the instructor the whole class you need to book a private lesson. Just don't forget it's not all about you he's got other people to teach as well. There's not a single martial art club where you get exclusive training with only the instructor you'll almost get some lessons with a senior student.
> 
> So apart from that what else was supposedly disorganised





That-a-Way said:


> Yes I didn't mean it that way. It was more that the teacher didn't really give us any excercises. The student made them up as the class went on. I suppose that's what he did when he began training.


You missed this one ^

Disorganized doesn't mean "not private". I went to a couple Karate classes before and the excercises were well defined and the teams too. This class was more like a couple of groups throwing controlled punches at each other.


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## Headhunter (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> You missed this one ^
> 
> Disorganized doesn't mean "not private". I went to a couple Karate classes before and the excercises were well defined and the teams too. This class was more like a couple of groups throwing controlled punches at each other.


Well kickboxing is a different sport. It's not going to be the same. Why don't you tell us exactly how the class went down


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## Martial D (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Isn't kickboxing based on MT, Karate and Boxing? That's what Wikipedia says at least.



Sort of. It's actually a result of one Joe Lewis' (known by many as the father of American kickboxing) desire to ramp point karate matches to the next level. Google him, there is some good action/interview footage worth watching.


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Well kickboxing is a different sport. It's not going to be the same. Why don't you tell us exactly how the class went down


Ok, I'll try. 

We started by greeting the teacher, then we jogged a bit to warm up, we did some crunches and push-ups, and then I was teamed up with this student, and the teacher told him to practice some basic excercises with me (the thing that surprised me is that he didn't tell him which ones), and then the teacher started walking around the dojo, and giving us tips and helping us. In fact he was very helpful and he even "sparred" with me for a few seconds as a demonstration. So lack of attention was not my issue. It was mostly that he didn't tell this student what to teach me (the student wasn't super advanced either), and it looks like he was making stuff up as we went. After that he gave us a few final tips and invited us to spar with him tomorrow (today). 

Apparently they do this thing every Thursday and Tuesday, where he spars with every student that shows up for a couple of minutes, which I find very cool. Obviously it's not a real fight and there is no head punching or a lot of kicking.


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## Headhunter (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Ok, I'll try.
> 
> We started by greeting the teacher, then we jogged a bit to warm up, we did some crunches and push-ups, and then I was teamed up with this student, and the teacher told him to practice some basic excercises with me (the thing that surprised me is that he didn't tell him which ones), and then the teacher started walking around the dojo, and giving us tips and helping us. In fact he was very helpful and he even "sparred" with me for a few seconds as a demonstration. So lack of attention was not my issue. It was mostly that he didn't tell this student what to teach me (the student wasn't super advanced either), and it looks like he was making stuff up as we went. After that he gave us a few final tips and invited us to spar with him tomorrow (today).
> 
> Apparently they do this thing every Thursday and Tuesday, where he spars with every student that shows up for a couple of minutes, which I find very cool. Obviously it's not a real fight and there is no head punching or a lot of kicking.


Well there sounds nothing with that at all and you'd get the same in any kickboxing gym. Like I said kickboxing only has basic moves so it's not hard to show a beginner the basics. Frankly I've seen way worse than that at least you got tips from your instructor some places you don't get anything.

That sounds like a good gym to be honest and frankly I don't think you'd find much better anywhere


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Well there sounds nothing with that at all and you'd get the same in any kickboxing gym. Like I said kickboxing only has basic moves so it's not hard to show a beginner the basics. Frankly I've seen way worse than that at least you got tips from your instructor some places you don't get anything.
> 
> That sounds like a good gym to be honest and frankly I don't think you'd find much better anywhere


Cool. That's reassuring. Thanks!

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## Headhunter (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Cool. That's reassuring. Thanks!
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


At the end of the day look at this way did you leave learning something you didn't know when you came in. If the answers yes then it was a good session


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## CB Jones (May 30, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Well there sounds nothing with that at all and you'd get the same in any kickboxing gym. Like I said kickboxing only has basic moves so it's not hard to show a beginner the basics. Frankly I've seen way worse than that at least you got tips from your instructor some places you don't get anything.
> 
> That sounds like a good gym to be honest and frankly I don't think you'd find much better anywhere



Much like a boxing gymn.  Most of the regulars know "the basics" to show a newcomer and wouldn't need the instructor to give specifics on what to work on for a newcomer.


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## Danny T (May 30, 2017)

Depends on how the facility is run.
As a school with specific classes and curriculum.
As a school with an open and on going training schedule. (everyone in the class gets the same material but a different levels)
As a gym with a coach giving a workout of the day instruction, or just open training where individuals work on different things.


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

I think my problem was watching a karate class a few days before. That class was like a well oiled machine. Not a fan though.

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## marques (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Yes I didn't mean it that way. It was more that the teacher didn't really give us any excercises. The student made them up as the class went on. I suppose that's what he did when he began training.


I don't dislike the idea. If it works, I would consider it disorganised only in appearance. Additionally, perhaps other classes are more guided (by the instructor). Let us know the evolution of your feeling. And skill.


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## Gerry Seymour (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Yes I didn't mean it that way. It was more that the teacher didn't really give us any excercises. The student made them up as the class went on. I suppose that's what he did when he began training.


Ah, it may actually be that this is how the instructor grooms new instructor candidates. This isn't unusual in some arts. And some instructors have students who turn out to be good at introducing the early concepts, so they turn them loose with new students. I was that person for teaching strikes at one time.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Ah, it may actually be that this is how the instructor grooms new instructor candidates. This isn't unusual in some arts. And some instructors have students who turn out to be good at introducing the early concepts, so they turn them loose with new students. I was that person for teaching strikes at one time.



Same. I'm not currently an instructor, but at one point I accidentally fell into the position of teaching striking at a school. The instructor would have me teach newer students and come by to check in and give both of us tips (me on teaching him on the material), until it evolved into me teaching strikes at the school.

I say I accidentally fell into the position, but this is making me think it wasn't an accident at all.


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## CB Jones (May 30, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Ah, it may actually be that this is how the instructor grooms new instructor candidates. This isn't unusual in some arts. And some instructors have students who turn out to be good at introducing the early concepts, so they turn them loose with new students. I was that person for teaching strikes at one time.



Or it could just be that senior guys are expected to show the less experienced the basics while the head trainer just observes and correct problems.

Kind of a pay it forward type idea of someone showed you the basics...now its time for you step up and do the same.


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

I just got back from sparring with the teacher. Boy I suck. You guys should have seen me. But it's a pretty good experience. It really boosts your confidence and relaxes you as it goes on. This gym is a keeper [emoji14]

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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> I just got back from sparring with the teacher. Boy I suck. You guys should have seen me. But it's a pretty good experience. It really boosts your confidence and relaxes you as it goes on. This gym is a keeper [emoji14]
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


Can you explain to me how it was a confidence booster? Normally that would wreck my confidence and I would end up obsessing over what I'm failing at.


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## That-a-Way (May 30, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Can you explain to me how it was a confidence booster? Normally that would wreck my confidence and I would end up obsessing over what I'm failing at.


Well, I already knew I would fail horribly. It helped me loosen up, mainly loose the fear of fighting and get comfortable in the ring. 

I mean the teacher beat me up, it's no big deal, I knew that would happen. And it was fun too 

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## Monkey Turned Wolf (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> Well, I already knew I would fail horribly. It helped me loosen up, mainly loose the fear of fighting and get comfortable in the ring.
> 
> I mean the teacher beat me up, it's no big deal, I knew that would happen. And it was fun too
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


Maybe I'm just too competitive. I could enter a BJJ gym and face the instructor, or even a purple belt (heck, probably a blue belt too). I would probably get tapped six times a minute. I fully know that would happen, but I would still end up frustrated, which would cause me to obsess over it once it happened and do nothing but grappling for months.


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## drop bear (May 30, 2017)

That-a-Way said:


> You missed this one ^
> 
> Disorganized doesn't mean "not private". I went to a couple Karate classes before and the excercises were well defined and the teams too. This class was more like a couple of groups throwing controlled punches at each other.



That tends to be more how a fight school works.


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## That-a-Way (May 31, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> Maybe I'm just too competitive. I could enter a BJJ gym and face the instructor, or even a purple belt (heck, probably a blue belt too). I would probably get tapped six times a minute. I fully know that would happen, but I would still end up frustrated, which would cause me to obsess over it once it happened and do nothing but grappling for months.


I'm not sure if that's healthy [emoji14] 

It'll definitely make you improve fast though.

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