# The Joke's on Us



## Bill Mattocks (Jan 4, 2010)

Just thought this was an interesting article and wanted to share.  Hyperbole aside, he makes some good points.

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=N2M4ZjFlMDUzZDAxZGNlYjdiMzc3NjNjZDhjNjJlN2Y=


> January 02, 2010, 7:00 a.m.
> 
> The Jokes on Us
> The Pantybomber wasnt the big joke. We are.
> ...


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## CanuckMA (Jan 4, 2010)

The worst part is that none of those measures are in force for US domestic flights. Must be because no terrorist ever started their journey of destruction from inside the US...



Oh, wait...


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## Gordon Nore (Jan 4, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just thought this was an interesting article and wanted to share.  Hyperbole aside, he makes some good points.
> 
> http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=N2M4ZjFlMDUzZDAxZGNlYjdiMzc3NjNjZDhjNjJlN2Y=



He does indeed. In the first four paragraphs he makes an argument for why Canadians ought to be outraged at the latest round of "security theatre" (I love that phrase) rules for flying over US air space.

It makes no sense. Laptop bags, diaper bags and ladies' purses are OK, but a little flight bag or back pack might be used to transport... what? Explosive underwear. None of these reforms actually respond to the actual Christmas Day incident.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 4, 2010)

I see what the writer is trying to say, but to tell the truth, I'm getting tired of pointing the finger and ridiculing the "stupid people" of government as they "overreact" here and there and everywhere.  I think we need to step back and look at the bigger picture here.  How many times have we heard the same excuse as more and more intrusive measures are implemented and more of our privacy (and in some cases are Rights) are trampled upon?  

It's kind of like hearing a kleptomaniac apologize again and again by saying, "Oh, I thought it was mine."

When do we call a duck a duck and just accept that the government is trying to subversively introduce a highly controlled, monitored, and policed society?  As long as they can keep throwing out the T word (terror) and excuse their "mistakes" with the S word (stupid), they can divert debate on what's really happening.


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## CanuckMA (Jan 4, 2010)

From the Toronto Star, Dec 30, 2009



> While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.
> That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.
> 
> "It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
> ...


 
We can learn a lot from these folks.


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## chaos1551 (Jan 4, 2010)

As we continue spending more and more money on security we lose liberty.  Do we deserve neither, as Ben Franklin would suggest?  It seems a conservative security system in tandem with good anti-terrorism intelligence would work wonders to keep the U.S. safe.  The more money we spend on spinning our wheels, the more the terrorists win.  No, no one died--this time.  But the terrorists win this battle anyway.  Wasn't it Bin Laden's goal to bankrupt this country?


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## grydth (Jan 4, 2010)

Whether "The system worked" will become this administration's "Mission accomplished" remains to be seen.

One hopes the public will make the government clearly understand that harassing the ordinary citizenry is in no way an acceptable substitute for keeping alien murderers out of our country. Preferably by killing them at point of origin, and more importantly, terminating the Satanic "Holy Men" who recruit and send them.

Subjecting ordinary folks to body scans or MRIs or colonoscopies does not make the skies one iota safer. Annihilating the panty bomber in Yemen would have. Invading our privacy gains nothing; putting individuals like this on the No Fly List would.

The government, not our people is the problem. It needs to develope the resolve to defend our borders and the competence to use the enormous resources out tax dollars have given it.... and it needs to substantially leave us alone while doing these.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 4, 2010)

CanuckMA said:


> From the Toronto Star, Dec 30, 2009
> 
> 
> 
> We can learn a lot from these folks.



Americans don't want to be secure. They want to FEEL secure. Big difference.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 4, 2010)

grydth said:


> The government, not our people is the problem. It needs to develope the resolve to defend our borders and the competence to use the enormous resources out tax dollars have given it.... and it needs to substantially leave us alone while doing these.



Wrong answer. The people are the problem. If the Americans keep electing the same type of politicians time and time again, because of nothing more than a handful of punchlines or dogmatic issues, who is really to blame? If you elect incompetent, stupid greedy politicians, whose fault is it that you have an incompetent stupid greedy government?

If Americans did not reward politicians who continue the entire terrorism charade, they wouldn't be governed by them. People complain a lot on the internet, but come the next election they'll still make the same choices again: potayto or potahto.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm agreeing with Bruno and Canuck.   Lets face it, our "experts" are idiots and showmen.  The real experts are and have been laughing at them for years, and the people who face major danger and are a closer and more hated target have a tighter and better system in place and have for years.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 4, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I'm agreeing with Bruno and Canuck.   Lets face it, our "experts" are idiots and showmen.  The real experts are and have been laughing at them for years, and the people who face major danger and are a closer and more hated target have a tighter and better system in place and have for years.



Or maybe they aren't so stupid and these measures are being put in place for another reason.  These "body scanners" for example, are scanning a fully detailed biometric image of your body that will be stored in a database.  You could be identified and tracked any place a camera is watching...including from space.  Yeah, it sounds crazy, but then again, you don't have to go back too far in time to find a place where people would have flipped out about having images of the naked body recorded and stored by the government.  This slow erosion and all of its baby steps is still a plan to tyranny and I don't think we can just chalk it up to stupidity.  To some degree, this is planned.


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## Omar B (Jan 4, 2010)

The new measures are crazy.  But it's no worse than months after 9/11 when you get looked at cock-eyed for being so rude as being Indian and ::gasp:: having an Indian name ... because the average TSA worker can't tell the difference between that and Muslim I guess.

Maybe one day the security measures will actually address the problem.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 4, 2010)

Omar B said:


> The new measures are crazy. But it's no worse than months after 9/11 when you get looked at cock-eyed for being so rude as being Indian and ::gasp:: having an Indian name ... because the average TSA worker can't tell the difference between that and Muslim I guess.
> 
> Maybe one day the security measures will actually address the problem.


 
Well, Omar, clearly you are a terrorist, because your avatar pic is blurred and crazy looking.


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## Omar B (Jan 4, 2010)

No, that's just me, blurry and crazy looking.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 4, 2010)

Omar B said:


> No, that's just me, blurry and crazy looking.


 
I assumed that was the case.


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## Andy Moynihan (Jan 4, 2010)

Refuse the service often enough and the industry will collapse of its own weight.

Meanwhile, if fly you must, bite the bullet, pay the extra and fly private charter. It is better worth throwing your money away at them than throwing your money and dignity away to THESE clowns.


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## grydth (Jan 4, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Wrong answer. The people are the problem. If the Americans keep electing the same type of politicians time and time again, because of nothing more than a handful of punchlines or dogmatic issues, who is really to blame? If you elect incompetent, stupid greedy politicians, whose fault is it that you have an incompetent stupid greedy government?
> 
> If Americans did not reward politicians who continue the entire terrorism charade, they wouldn't be governed by them. People complain a lot on the internet, but come the next election they'll still make the same choices again: potayto or potahto.



The above I certainly agree with.... but you aren't answering the point I was making. I was referencing our government's unfortunate tendency to crack down on innocent citizens while not doing enough to stop the killers.


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## Omar B (Jan 4, 2010)

I just realized, with these new rules I'm gonna have one hell of a time bringing my guitars onto flights as my carry on.  Nothing worse than putting your instrument in with the rest of the cargo, no matter how great a flight case you have.

This is gonna be a pain in the *** for musicians ... we already look "blurry," "crazy" and I might ad that most of that is true, especially rhe blurry part.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 4, 2010)

The word now is TSA may be stopped cause of child porn laws. See if they view naked children on the scanners....

Personaly, I'd just wear underwear made of the same stuff the camera film x-ray protection bags are made of.

If they want to frisk me, ok, as long as it's done by Alessandra Ambrosio.

Deaf


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 4, 2010)

I was gonna wrap my groin in tinfoil. Hey, that much radiation can't be good for the 'boys'.


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## Omar B (Jan 4, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I was gonna wrap my groin in tinfoil. Hey, that much radiation can't be good for the 'boys'.



Gonna?  Mine have been wrapped for years ... just in case.


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## Tames D (Jan 4, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Americans don't want to be secure. They want to FEEL secure. Big difference.


 
Are you speaking for all Americans?


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 4, 2010)

Deaf Smith said:


> If they want to frisk me, ok, as long as it's done by Alessandra Ambrosio.



Who's he?


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 4, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Who's he?



http://lebrownstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/alessandra-ambrosio-picture-1.jpg


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## Omar B (Jan 4, 2010)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Who's he?



He's a she, and a very hot Victoria's Secret model.


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## Tames D (Jan 4, 2010)

Omar B said:


> He's a she, and a very hot Victoria's Secret model.


 
I have a feeling Bill knew that.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 5, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> I was gonna wrap my groin in tinfoil. Hey, that much radiation can't be good for the 'boys'.


 
Remember that scene from "This is Spinal Tap" when Derek Smalls goes through the metal detector, it goes off, he's subjected to wanding and it whines right over his groin. Then he pulls out this MASSIVE cucumber wrapped in tinfoil. Classic.


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd so do that, but I hear that the only people with less of a sense of humor than the Border Patrol is the TSA.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 5, 2010)

You could always do it with a tamale and claim it was your lunch. Eat the damn thing right there.


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## Bruno@MT (Jan 5, 2010)

Tames D said:


> Are you speaking for all Americans?



I'm not even American. I am an outside observer.

-IF- the majority of Americans actually cared about security in a rational way, then the security cicus terrrrrrrrism scare would not have been getting more and more ridiculous AND ineffective AND offensive at the same time.

Or it could all be a practical joke. Kinda like the people in power making bets on how far they can go. _'Look, we'ver taken away their toothpaste. Now let's make them keep their hands above their blankets, forbid them to go to the bathroom, and have people look at them naked including the kids. I've got 50$ saying they will just go moo and go along'_


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## Archangel M (Jan 5, 2010)

I agree with the poster who put up the article about Israeli security. We have to start focusing on the PEOPLE who present the greatest threat. 

Our "PC" approach of "frisk everybody so we don't appear to be discriminating against anybody" is a sign of how far down the PC rabbit hole we have fallen. Rather than "profile" the people who are most likely terrorists we start these insane "frisk everyone" policies and a dude from YEMEN who's own FATHER warned authorities was a threat sneaks through.

If it weren't so ****ing dangerous I'd think it was funny.


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## CanuckMA (Jan 5, 2010)

OTOH, and I'm no security expert, when a dude pays cash for a one way fare and shows up at the airport with no luggage, I might just go uhmm...


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## Archangel M (Jan 12, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> I agree with the poster who put up the article about Israeli security. We have to start focusing on the PEOPLE who present the greatest threat.
> 
> Our "PC" approach of "frisk everybody so we don't appear to be discriminating against anybody" is a sign of how far down the PC rabbit hole we have fallen. Rather than "profile" the people who are most likely terrorists we start these insane "frisk everyone" policies and a dude from YEMEN who's own FATHER warned authorities was a threat sneaks through.
> 
> If it weren't so ****ing dangerous I'd think it was funny.



[yt]AWBJg_TS-Wo[/yt]


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## Bob Hubbard (Jan 12, 2010)

"The Suppository Bomber".  :roflmao:


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## Bill Mattocks (Jan 12, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> "The Suppository Bomber".  :roflmao:



Officer, that better be your finger.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 13, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> [yt]AWBJg_TS-Wo[/yt]


 
However...let us not forget that a substantial proportion of domestic terrorism is committed by fundamentalist Christian groups against abortion clinics, stem cell researchers, etc. Religious fervor and distorted thinking crosses all cultural boundaries, folks.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 13, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> However...let us not forget that a substantial proportion of domestic terrorism is committed by fundamentalist Christian groups against abortion clinics, stem cell researchers, etc. Religious fervor and distorted thinking crosses all cultural boundaries, folks.



It's divide and conquer, Jenny, all terrorism is rare and does not require an egregious loss of liberty.  The sad thing is that these sentiments are carefully put out in the media and are meant to get us pointing fingers at each other so we have less energy to spend looking at how the government is abridging our freedoms.  Also, if everyone is screaming about who the real "terrorists" are, then it must mean that we have terrorists everywhere and we all need to be watched.  That is how this stuff gets justified in the minds of the public.

That's how we ended up with these guys...

http://www.infragard.net/

The bottom line is that we live in a society where information is manipulated and controlled to a high degree.  When you figure it out, you can pretty much guess what kinds of responses comments like yours will draw.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 13, 2010)

maunakumu said:


> It's divide and conquer, Jenny, all terrorism is rare and does not require an egregious loss of liberty. The sad thing is that these sentiments are carefully put out in the media and are meant to get us pointing fingers at each other so we have less energy to spend looking at how the government is abridging our freedoms. Also, if everyone is screaming about who the real "terrorists" are, then it must mean that we have terrorists everywhere and we all need to be watched. That is how this stuff gets justified in the minds of the public.
> 
> That's how we ended up with these guys...
> 
> ...


 
I expect that people are much for concerned about an external threat from people of a different religion, than they are from an internal threat from people of the predominant religion. So comments like mine will probably be minimized or ignored. Personally, I think that religious fundamentalism if dangerous. Whatever the religion.


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## Makalakumu (Jan 13, 2010)

Jenny_in_Chico said:


> Personally, I think that religious fundamentalism if dangerous. Whatever the religion.



I'm an atheist, so take my comments as coming from someone on the outside looking in.  Personally, I don't worry too much about religious fundamentalists.  There are a lot of other things that have a higher percent chance of hurting me.  Bees, for example, more people die from bee stings then they do from religious fundamentalist terrorism.  I've been stung by bees, I have never met a religious fundamentalist that has ever tried to hurt me.  Lets keep it real by talking about experience, because that is what we know to actually exist.  The world portrayed by the media is a complete farce.

As long as they are not trying to force me to live my life the way they think I should live it, I don't care how they choose to live their life.  That is my only beef with religious fundamentalists.  It's certainly not something that I need to worry so much that I would trundle my children through a naked body scanner so that some TSA pervert can get off.  That is a real threat to me.  I see that as having potential to cause me and my family more pain then any religious fundamentalist.  The bottom line is that I believe that a lot of the hype against religions is contrived.  The powers that be use it as a tool to manipulate people by creating and fanning various kinds of prejudice.    I have been (and I discover that I still am) a victim of this all of time.  

As I wake up and realize that I am in control of reality around me and that I have the power of observation and discernment, I can start to use my own mental faculties to determine what is a threat and what is not.  I will never again abrogate my right to determine who is the enemy.


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## Archangel M (Jan 13, 2010)

Let&#8217;s do a test. I&#8217;ll walk the streets of a Christian country with a derogatory cartoon of Jesus.


 You&#8217;ll walk the streets of a Islamic country with a derogatory cartoon of Muhammad.


 We&#8217;ll see who come out alive to post here.


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## Carol (Jan 13, 2010)

Gordon Nore said:


> It makes no sense. Laptop bags, diaper bags and ladies' purses are OK, but a little flight bag or back pack might be used to transport... what? .



Here's the logic.  (Note that I am not saying it is good logic)

All Young Adults carry Backpacks

100% of YP -> CB


Most terrorists are Young Adults

51-100% of T -> YP, 100% of YP -> CB


Therefore

Most terrorists carry backpacks

51 - 100% of T -> CB

Hey! Thats how I can spot terrorists!


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 13, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> Lets do a test. Ill walk the streets of a Christian country with a derogatory cartoon of Jesus.
> 
> 
> Youll walk the streets of a Islamic country with a derogatory cartoon of Muhammad.
> ...


 
In a lot of rural towns across America, you will get your dick knocked in the dirt for doing just that. Probably not murdered, though. 

I never claimed that Islamic fundamentalists were not dangerous, or were less dangerous than Christians. I simply called attention to the fact that Islam does not have the market cornered on religious fundamentalism, or terror tactics. Fortunately, our country _at this time_ is not so rife with fundamentalists that 10 fall into the yard every time you shake a tree. But it could head that way, if Americans continue to couple religious fervor with patriotism, and if the perceived threat to American "values/way of life" continues to grow.


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## Jenny_in_Chico (Jan 13, 2010)

maunakumu said:


> I'm an atheist, so take my comments as coming from someone on the outside looking in. Personally, I don't worry too much about religious fundamentalists. There are a lot of other things that have a higher percent chance of hurting me. Bees, for example, more people die from bee stings then they do from religious fundamentalist terrorism. I've been stung by bees, I have never met a religious fundamentalist that has ever tried to hurt me. Lets keep it real by talking about experience, because that is what we know to actually exist. The world portrayed by the media is a complete farce.
> 
> As long as they are not trying to force me to live my life the way they think I should live it, I don't care how they choose to live their life. That is my only beef with religious fundamentalists. It's certainly not something that I need to worry so much that I would trundle my children through a naked body scanner so that some TSA pervert can get off. That is a real threat to me. I see that as having potential to cause me and my family more pain then any religious fundamentalist. The bottom line is that I believe that a lot of the hype against religions is contrived. The powers that be use it as a tool to manipulate people by creating and fanning various kinds of prejudice. I have been (and I discover that I still am) a victim of this all of time.
> 
> As I wake up and realize that I am in control of reality around me and that I have the power of observation and discernment, I can start to use my own mental faculties to determine what is a threat and what is not. I will never again abrogate my right to determine who is the enemy.


 
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about anything. There is a lot of crap that goes on in this world that I have no control over. Plagues, climate change, crime, terrorism, etc. Like you, I figure that my chances of dying from a terrorist act at this point in time are slim. However, we can't be blind to the possibility that domestic and/or global destabilization might occur, because people are losing faith in the economy and government, both here and abroad. This destabilization might be triggered by the political rift between Islam and other nations coming to a head, perhaps through the action of private terrorist organizations who gain access to WMD. This is the Cold War all over again, except this time we are not pitted against the Russians, who are wonderfully predictable if you understand their psychology and end game, and whose activities were slowed by bureaucratic inertia. This time the self proclaimed enemy are often small, well funded, private groups who are unpredictable in their behavior but who have immense power to shape the actions of entire nations.


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