# training



## ryo (Sep 20, 2010)

k, i'm thinking of doing 6-7hrs of training 5 days a week. My question is in terms of nutrition how should modify my diet to suit the 7hrs of intense training.Currently my diet consists of 85% greens/non meat and 15% meat/fish.


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 20, 2010)

ryo said:


> k, i'm thinking of doing 6-7hrs of training 5 days a week. My question is in terms of nutrition how should modify my diet to suit the 7hrs of intense training.Currently my diet consists of 85% greens/non meat and 15% meat/fish.



A lot depends on you.  Your age, current condition, and height/weight.  If you're talking about doing 6-7 hours per day for 5 days per week, you need to think seriously about whether or not your body can take that if you're not in superb condition already.


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## Omar B (Sep 20, 2010)

ryo said:


> k, i'm thinking of doing 6-7hrs of training 5 days a week. My question is in terms of nutrition how should modify my diet to suit the 7hrs of intense training.Currently my diet consists of 85% greens/non meat and 15% meat/fish.




6-7 hours a day sounds like a professional athlete's schedule, are you?  The average person around here is training 2 hours a day or those of us who teach who do more.  I guess if you are really doing 6 hours every day then you are a professional and we seem like simple enthusiasts.  I'm sure someone around here can help you out, but I would start by looking at the diets of other pro athletes, what does Roy Jones Jr eat?


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## ryo (Sep 20, 2010)

Currently id say my body's capable of coping with the 7hrs, though I'm not a super muscular guy, im slim weighing 125.I got a lot of free time on hand, an wana see how far i can go. I feel at peace when I train.


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## ryo (Sep 20, 2010)

Omar B said:


> 6-7 hours a day sounds like a professional athlete's schedule, are you?  The average person around here is training 2 hours a day or those of us who teach who do more.  I guess if you are really doing 6 hours every day then you are a professional and we seem like simple enthusiasts.  I'm sure someone around here can help you out, but I would start by looking at the diets of other pro athletes, what does Roy Jones Jr eat?




Nah man I'm not an athlete. Though certain stuff i do on a daily basis needs a lot of strength to get done.


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## Omar B (Sep 20, 2010)

Do you work?  Who has time for a job and 6 hours of training daily?


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## rlp271 (Sep 20, 2010)

I wouldn't jump in with 6-7 hours a day of hard training.  Have you ever done a single day training like that?  As far as nutrition is concerned, depends on how hard you're working.  Michael Phelps eats around 10,000 calories per day when he's in his peak training period.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

ryo said:


> k, i'm thinking of doing 6-7hrs of training 5 days a week. My question is in terms of nutrition how should modify my diet to suit the 7hrs of intense training.Currently my diet consists of 85% greens/non meat and 15% meat/fish.


 
Context is essential here, but for the record, this sounds completely unthoughtout and unrealistic, frankly. What you are describing is an extreme training situation, taken on after you have built up to it, and even then a very rare situation to find at all. 6-7 hours, 5 days a week of "intense training" is a recipe for injury and problems, especially for someone who, in their profile, has a complete list of details about themselves as "noob" in art studied.

You also have to realise that as you have no actual art listed, and have put this in the "General" section, we have no way to know exactly what you will be training in, and therefore have no way of giving any real advice as to what will be suited to your needs (if you go ahead with this rather insane plan). BJJ competitive training will have certain needs, which are different from traditional karate training, which are different from Kenjutsu or Iaido training, which are different from boxing training, which are different from Koryu training, which are different from Wing Chun training, which are different from Judo training, which are different from.... etc etc etc.

So we will need more details, but bear in mind that the realistic answer may well be "settle down, relax, certainly do some home training, but your approach here is overboard with no real benefit". Just so you know.


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## Omar B (Sep 21, 2010)

Hmm, maybe he saw a movie and thinks you can train every day for a month and become a walking death machine.  But yeah it is an unrealistic goal, that's why I asked if he was an athlete.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Do you work?  Who has time for a job and 6 hours of training daily?



Currently I'm unemployed, thus having the hrs needed to undergo this training. I've given it quite a lot of thought. 


@rlp271
Training for the most, id  do 2hrs of abdominal breathing in the morning round 4-6am, an when i get home in evenin I'd do 2hrs of physical activities, punches,elbows,knees,kicks,loosen ma joints etc. Thats when i had a job. 

@Chris Parker Why say its unrealistic, until you've tried it. Thing is man i've done my research an set my goals an learnt various methods in some of the particular arts to achieve what i want. Undergoing something like this isn't easy, it would require alot of energy, so i learnt ways to efficiently use my energy. Certain aspect of qigong showed me the human body's potential. And yeah  i did have noob on my profile, as i only take whats needed of a art ..what works for me. The arts are amazing if i had more time an someone to teach me i'd learn them all. Ah an sorry if i posted this the wrong place. Feel free to move to the right section if needed.

@Omar B  here we go again with unrealistic are you belittling the human body. I'm 23 an instead of focusing on the material stuff, id rather put effort into training. Life's amazing an i've started a journey i don't wana stop.


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## Jenna (Sep 21, 2010)

ryo said:


> Currently I'm unemployed, thus having the hrs needed to undergo this training. I've given it quite a lot of thought.
> 
> 
> @rlp271
> ...


Hey have you started up your own school yet or do you have any thoughts of doing so?  I would in on like some of that action!


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

ryo said:


> Currently I'm unemployed, thus having the hrs needed to undergo this training. I've given it quite a lot of thought.
> 
> 
> @rlp271
> ...


 
Why say it's unrealistic? Well, because of the way you described it, as "intense training" for 6-7 hours 5 days a week. Training for that long, at that regularity, fine, done that myself for periods at a time, but not "intense" all that time. You will collapse, your body will not cope. Of course, that is assuming that you are meaning something even halfway to what I consider "intense" training. Again, there is no system/art listed, so what you mean is still rather up in the air...

As for your "I only take what is needed from an art...." concept, you do know how ridiculuous that sounds to those who have spent years, even decades, studying an art, yeah? It is almost universally said by those who are young, barely more than children themselves, who have, honestly, no real idea what they're talking about. You mention qigong, how long have you studied, who did you study under etc? I probably won't know who you mention, but other members here will certainly have some knowledge.

Oh, and what I meant by the location you posted it in was that it gives no indication of what you are training in (if anything at all, from the sounds of things), such as the Japanese Arts, Korean Arts, Internal Chinese, or anything else. But if your main question is on nutrition, the Health and Nutrition section may have been best. 

But really, my main point is that we have no idea what you mean by "intense training", or what your training may entail, intense or not, so we really can't comment on what your diet should be. I can, however, spot where some more reality may be needed.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Why say it's unrealistic? Well, because of the way you described it, as "intense training" for 6-7 hours 5 days a week. Training for that long, at that regularity, fine, done that myself for periods at a time, but not "intense" all that time. You will collapse, your body will not cope. Of course, that is assuming that you are meaning something even halfway to what I consider "intense" training. Again, there is no system/art listed, so what you mean is still rather up in the air...
> 
> As for your "I only take what is needed from an art...." concept, you do know how ridiculuous that sounds to those who have spent years, even decades, studying an art, yeah? It is almost universally said by those who are young, barely more than children themselves, who have, honestly, no real idea what they're talking about. You mention qigong, how long have you studied, who did you study under etc? I probably won't know who you mention, but other members here will certainly have some knowledge.
> 
> ...




I didn't mean any disrespect to those who their art is a life style. I respect them all, they've taken a journey i have just started. And i deeply respect that. Guess i went a little overboard in saying intense, well to me it would be intense, to you guys who've trained all your life it would be child's play. I've set my own personal mountain i have to climb. Whether it takes me a few months or yrs to achieve that i will do. In terms of content for now im focusing on muay thai technics. With a aspect of qigong as i wont want my body in a constant yang state. Thus i use the abdominal breathing. Ive thought of the rest hrs needed for my body to recover.

@Jenna well for now its my own personal goal i've set. A school nah, its just a path i wana take, I'm simple dunno if its cuz all this island life is getting to me. 

Martial arts just kinda clicked with me, words are easy to say, but to achieve something threw hrs of sweat, torn muscle, lower backaches. Waking up the next day the pains the alarm clock telling you ya alive. After a while there's none. Its just ya body adjusting. Why wouldn't i want to push myself some more.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

Okay, let's try this again. The schedule you are proposing is only really found in professional athletes, and for a beginner, it is really not recommended for many reasons. To begin with, you don't have the experience to train the correct behaviours, so you could very easily be training in habits and actions that are incorrect, or even detrimental to your health, and longevity in the arts (incorrect kicking methods damaging joints, for example), such training takes an incredible toll on the body, and you do need to build up to that (you don't start weightlifting with twice your bodyweight, do you?), and far more. In fact, a small amount of regular training can give better results faster than the schedule you are proposing, as it allows you to train longer (without recovery time for injuries due to overstress), and allows you to focus your training on more specific aspects, getting them just right.

To give you an idea of what I mean, we train various programs with thirty day training regimes, the idea being that you train something continuously for thirty days (you miss a day, you start again). There are physiological, psychological, and even traditional reasons for this, by the way. The thing to realise here is that the training only needs to be 10, 15 minutes a day to be greatly effective (although I have done programs that required much longer... 1hr swordwork ones, 2 hour Bojutsu ones, even longer on occasion), and I can always see if a student has actually done the home training, as the development is typically that pronounced. For those who want to go the extra mile, you can extend it to 100 day programs, which again, I have done a number of times. But each of those was for 30 - 45 minutes each, as that is sensible. One of our other seniors used to try to do a 1 hour swordwork program using a weighted suburito (extra heavy wooden sword), one handed, with weights added to his wrists and ankles as he went. He never succeeded in completing one 100 day program like that, because his body would rebel and he would get sick, making him stop the program. He tried it 4 times, so you know.

The thing here is to be sensible about it, long hours if you're not training sensibly and properly, are really just wasted time and effort. You don't need to do that. The best advice is to find a qualified trainer, and trust them to guide you. If you are just doing this yourself, you won't get anywhere near the results you're thinking of.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, let's try this again. The schedule you are proposing is only really found in professional athletes, and for a beginner, it is really not recommended for many reasons. To begin with, you don't have the experience to train the correct behaviours, so you could very easily be training in habits and actions that are incorrect, or even detrimental to your health, and longevity in the arts (incorrect kicking methods damaging joints, for example), such training takes an incredible toll on the body, and you do need to build up to that (you don't start weightlifting with twice your bodyweight, do you?), and far more. In fact, a small amount of regular training can give better results faster than the schedule you are proposing, as it allows you to train longer (without recovery time for injuries due to overstress), and allows you to focus your training on more specific aspects, getting them just right.
> 
> To give you an idea of what I mean, we train various programs with thirty day training regimes, the idea being that you train something continuously for thirty days (you miss a day, you start again). There are physiological, psychological, and even traditional reasons for this, by the way. The thing to realise here is that the training only needs to be 10, 15 minutes a day to be greatly effective (although I have done programs that required much longer... 1hr swordwork ones, 2 hour Bojutsu ones, even longer on occasion), and I can always see if a student has actually done the home training, as the development is typically that pronounced. For those who want to go the extra mile, you can extend it to 100 day programs, which again, I have done a number of times. But each of those was for 30 - 45 minutes each, as that is sensible. One of our other seniors used to try to do a 1 hour swordwork program using a weighted suburito (extra heavy wooden sword), one handed, with weights added to his wrists and ankles as he went. He never succeeded in completing one 100 day program like that, because his body would rebel and he would get sick, making him stop the program. He tried it 4 times, so you know.
> 
> The thing here is to be sensible about it, long hours if you're not training sensibly and properly, are really just wasted time and effort. You don't need to do that. The best advice is to find a qualified trainer, and trust them to guide you. If you are just doing this yourself, you won't get anywhere near the results you're thinking of.




Thanks for the advice , its much appreciated. I get ya, though man the arts i'm interested in there aren't any instructors over here who teach it. The most dominant art over here is karate. Guess I'll have to travel overseas.
That's why i took the initiative to do my own thing. And i guess that's probly how most arts originated. Some guy or gal some thousands of yrs ago did their own thing. 

Everyone who replied thanks for ya advice :ultracool

Ah and i'll try that 30day regime , looks within reach.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

That's a popular concept, but really I doubt it. People learnt from others, or from experience, not from "I think I'll do something a bit different". That would be a recipe for disaster where these arts are concerned. The only way you could conceivably come up with something yourself is to put yourself in a situation where your survival/success depended on it, and see if you make it. But that doesn't actually mean you've learnt anything, necessarily.

Karate is pretty dominant everywhere, but you may find (if Muay Thai is your prefered) that heading to a karate school may give you enough grounding to do at least part of your home training schedule, and put you in good stead when you get the chance to study Muay Thai. Or is it another art that you're interested in (in which case the Muay Thai techniques you're training with may not be of any use at all, really)?


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> That's a popular concept, but really I doubt it. People learnt from others, or from experience, not from "I think I'll do something a bit different". That would be a recipe for disaster where these arts are concerned. The only way you could conceivably come up with something yourself is to put yourself in a situation where your survival/success depended on it, and see if you make it. But that doesn't actually mean you've learnt anything, necessarily.
> 
> Karate is pretty dominant everywhere, but you may find (if Muay Thai is your prefered) that heading to a karate school may give you enough grounding to do at least part of your home training schedule, and put you in good stead when you get the chance to study Muay Thai. Or is it another art that you're interested in (in which case the Muay Thai techniques you're training with may not be of any use at all, really)?




True, everyone learns from someone or experience. Yet there's always a flaw in a particular movement. Whether in terms or speed or a blind spot. Sometimes doing something differently can minimize the risk. That'd be survival instinct do/die. I understand that.

Well i got a friend of mine who's a master in karate, though muay thai movements seem alot more natural to me. My body can cope quite well. I'll give karate another shot.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm interested in other arts, though its tuff getting marterial on um. Book stores over here got nil..  I'll have to do some traveling.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

Okay, recognising that this is about the third time I've asked in various forms, what arts are you interested in/do you train in? And really, books are fine for intellectual understanding, but are nothing to do with training in a system, but I must remind you that if you have internet access, surely you can get to amazon.com, budovideos.com, or any of a hundred other sites to get books/DVDs etc?


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## Omar B (Sep 21, 2010)

So let me get this straight.  You are a beginner who thinks he can take on that kind of training regimen?  Realistically you'll hurt yourself really badly, plus it'll be really hilarious hearing about how you can't make it through the first week going at that pace.

Guys like Michael Phelps, Roy Jones Jr, Usain Bolt, I could go on.  Professionals are the only ones who can take on such a schedule and even they are under close scrutiny and guidance from coaches and yet even they get hurt.  There's a reason athletes only last so long in the game and even they don't train that hard the whole time.  Hell, even one of the great body builders of all time Mike Mentzer wrote widely on HIT training which simply is short workouts at high intensity yeilding greater results, a method adopted by most sporting professionals.

Training 6-7 hours a day without a definate end time or end goal will kill you.  Pros train that way for maybe a month before competition ... but their regular schedule is usually closer to the rest of us.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, recognising that this is about the third time I've asked in various forms, what arts are you interested in/do you train in? And really, books are fine for intellectual understanding, but are nothing to do with training in a system, but I must remind you that if you have internet access, surely you can get to amazon.com, budovideos.com, or any of a hundred other sites to get books/DVDs etc?



Bro i got over 117GB worth of vid tutorials in arts im interested in,  showing the technics, detailed explanations behind each movement and different angular views of the technics. From pressure points to boxing. Still i've come to a realization you gotta do this one at a time. That's why i pace my self to focusing on one thing at the moment. Like they say a empty vessel can be filled.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 21, 2010)

ryo said:


> Bro i got over 117GB worth of vid tutorials in arts im interested in, showing the technics, detailed explanations behind each movement and different angular views of the technics. From pressure points to boxing. Still i've come to a realization you gotta do this one at a time. That's why i pace my self to focusing on one thing at the moment. Like they say a empty vessel can be filled.


 
Okay, now I want you to realise something, because this is very important. Ready?

Martial arts are not their techniques.

Okay? They're not. What they are are representations of the core, or guiding philosophy, of that system, and taking the mechanics of one, tacking on the techniques of another, and so on, is doomed to failure, as it just doesn't work like that. Pick one art, and one art only, til you get a fair amount of experience in that, and only then think about adding to it from other sources. And I notice that you are, once again, avoiding actually answering the question: What arts are you interested in? Because there is actually a very good chance that I will have a fair idea of a lot about whatever you talk about, especially if it is Japanese, but even if it's Korean, Thai, or a number of Chinese systems. And as such, I can point out the shortcomings of your approach there.

What you don't have in your videos is an explaination of the philosophy of each art as distinct from others, as each is just showing what they have to offer. You are not going to get results from just putting techniques together with no base. You need a system first.

As you say, empty vessels can be filled, but it's best if it's only one thing filling them. Water is fine by itself, but it'll dilute anything else you put in there. And adding something poisonous will render anything else undrinkable. Oh, and son? I'm not your bro. I'm just trying to help you here.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Omar B said:


> So let me get this straight.  You are a beginner who thinks he can take on that kind of training regimen?  Realistically you'll hurt yourself really badly, plus it'll be really hilarious hearing about how you can't make it through the first week going at that pace.
> 
> Guys like Michael Phelps, Roy Jones Jr, Usain Bolt, I could go on.  Professionals are the only ones who can take on such a schedule and even they are under close scrutiny and guidance from coaches and yet even they get hurt.  There's a reason athletes only last so long in the game and even they don't train that hard the whole time.  Hell, even one of the great body builders of all time Mike Mentzer wrote widely on HIT training which simply is short workouts at high intensity yeilding greater results, a method adopted by most sporting professionals.
> 
> Training 6-7 hours a day without a definate end time or end goal will kill you.  Pros train that way for maybe a month before competition ... but their regular schedule is usually closer to the rest of us.



I get ya, i wont kill myself, what would be the purpose if i ended up dead lol. All professionals were once beginners that's the fact you leave out of it. Every one has a different lifestyle, and that determines want one can an cannot do, yours may be a lot easier than mine. 

The thing is if my body can't cope with it, i won't continue, i'll just revise and build up gradually till i reach my goal. I got a lifetime to achieve it why rush.


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## Omar B (Sep 21, 2010)

Yes, all athletes were once beginners.  But you don't go from zero to a professional schedule overnight literally.  It's clear from your previous posts you lack the knowledge of martial arts or excersize physiology to do anything but hurt yourself.  Videos and online tutorials are not a substitute from a coach/sensei/sifu (you know, people who know what they are doing).  There is a lot more to a martial art that copying from videos, believe me, a few millimeters one way or another could get your hurt or render a technique ineffective.  You need someone to interact with who can correct you.

I have 24 years in the martial arts and even I am pretty sure I know what I'm talking about, and even I follow the guidance of someone more advanced than myself, as does everyone else here.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, now I want you to realise something, because this is very important. Ready?
> 
> Martial arts are not their techniques.
> 
> ...




Sorry if i got to familiar. My Apologies. What arts are you interested in? Arts I'm interested in Qigong, Wing Chun, Muay Thai,Tae Kwon Do,Hwa Rang Do,Tai Chi,Pressure Points

I understand, filling ya vessel with to much can lead to a deadly poison not yielding life. Thats why i focus on one thing at a time.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Yes, all athletes were once beginners.  But you don't go from zero to a professional schedule overnight literally.  It's clear from your previous posts you lack the knowledge of martial arts or excersize physiology to do anything but hurt yourself.  Videos and online tutorials are not a substitute from a coach/sensei/sifu (you know, people who know what they are doing).  There is a lot more to a martial art that copying from videos, believe me, a few millimeters one way or another could get your hurt or render a technique ineffective.  You need someone to interact with who can correct you.
> 
> I have 24 years in the martial arts and even I am pretty sure I know what I'm talking about, and even I follow the guidance of someone more advanced than myself, as does everyone else here.



I understand, I'm not saying i'll not take your advice into consideration, as all advice given to me is with regard to my well being, I guess the 6-7hrs is out of it, i'll stick to my regular 4hrs 2 in the morning an 2 in the evening.


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## Omar B (Sep 21, 2010)

Get an instructor, actually learn an art.  Don't train and piecemeal what you "think" is an art based upon your extensive watching of videos.  You'll just end up destroying your joints.  I do so hope you have good health insurance because I don't want your purposefully thrashing yourself to be on my tax dollars.

Tell me, what movie were you watching and how drunk or stoned were you when you came up with this idea?


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## jks9199 (Sep 21, 2010)

If you're 23, and currently unemployed, and are going to spend the major part of your waking hours in some form of martial arts training...  when are you going to look for work?  Unless you happen to be independently wealthy, that seems to me to be where your priorities should lie.  Put the effort your thinking about putting into this martial arts training endeavor into finding a job, instead.  That'd be my advice.  Then you can afford actual training with an instructor who can advise you on how to make the most of your training.


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

Omar B said:


> Get an instructor, actually learn an art.  Don't train and piecemeal what you "think" is an art based upon your extensive watching of videos.  You'll just end up destroying your joints.  I do so hope you have good health insurance because I don't want your purposefully thrashing yourself to be on my tax dollars.
> 
> Tell me, what movie were you watching and how drunk or stoned were you when you came up with this idea?



I don't drink or smoke. Its one of those goals i've set for myself, may not achieve now but eventually meaning a few yrs. Chances of getting a Muay Thai Instructor over here is nil. When ya live in the tropics and most peeps don't even know the island how can i get an Instructor. I know a video doesn't show the full aspects of an art. I know that to well. An actual Instructor's much better. Though situation is there's none. Guess i should stick to my qigong.


@jks9199 thanks for the advice,  i wouldn't consider myself wealthy, my bills can be paid, family's taken cared of, so i got no worries.


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## Omar B (Sep 21, 2010)

I didnt ask if you drink or smoke, why are you telling me that?


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## ryo (Sep 21, 2010)

was just stating, ah well forget it.


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## Cirdan (Sep 22, 2010)

ryo, it is good that you want to study the arts and want to train a lot. 

Now, as has already been pointed out, the arts ared based in principles rather than technique. This is why learning the basics is the first step, and I am not talking basics like throwing a kick or a punch. It is proper movement and to internalize this takes a minimum of a few years of training unless you are some kind of god`s gift to MA. The arts as we know them today were not created by some little funny guy on a mountain top who suddenly decided to come up with a system of hitting people. Every past master learned the basics from those before him/her and _then_ put their own spin on it. You can`t get there just by mixing a bit of this and that.


My advice to you would be:

-Find a good instructor. Good instructors are rare. Make this art your "core". You can cross train after a while , but I wouldn`t advice to do this in the first year or so. 

-Ease into it. Start with a few lessons a week, you can increase the number of hours gradually. Training just a little every day helps a lot. Be patient with yourself.

Sorry I can`t help you with the question about nutrition. Good luck.


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## Bruno@MT (Sep 22, 2010)

jks9199 said:


> If you're 23, and currently unemployed, and are going to spend the major part of your waking hours in some form of martial arts training...  when are you going to look for work?  Unless you happen to be independently wealthy, that seems to me to be where your priorities should lie.  Put the effort your thinking about putting into this martial arts training endeavor into finding a job, instead.  That'd be my advice.  Then you can afford actual training with an instructor who can advise you on how to make the most of your training.



Step 1: Learn to fight
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit


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## Bruno@MT (Sep 22, 2010)

ryo said:


> I don't drink or smoke. Its one of those goals i've set for myself, may not achieve now but eventually meaning a few yrs. Chances of getting a Muay Thai Instructor over here is nil. When ya live in the tropics and most peeps don't even know the island how can i get an Instructor. I know a video doesn't show the full aspects of an art. I know that to well. An actual Instructor's much better. Though situation is there's none. Guess i should stick to my qigong.
> 
> 
> @jks9199 thanks for the advice,  i wouldn't consider myself wealthy, my bills can be paid, family's taken cared of, so i got no worries.



Well, then get off the island and move somewhere else where you can find a good instructor. If you say you have the commitment of wanting to spend 8 hours per day, 6 days per week, then something like a relocation should not be too much of a commitment either.

And the part that has been ignored so far: to what end do you want to train so much? To fight? But then you need a coach and a circuit to fight in, meaning you have to move anyway. If it is to become very good, then you also have to move because without a good trainer, you are just going to be very good at being bad at whatever you do, and by the time you actually find a trainer, your bad habits are going to be ingrained so deeply that it will take ages to get rid of them.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Cirdan said:


> ryo, it is good that you want to study the arts and want to train a lot.
> 
> Now, as has already been pointed out, the arts ared based in principles rather than technique. This is why learning the basics is the first step, and I am not talking basics like throwing a kick or a punch. It is proper movement and to internalize this takes a minimum of a few years of training unless you are some kind of god`s gift to MA. The arts as we know them today were not created by some little funny guy on a mountain top who suddenly decided to come up with a system of hitting people. Every past master learned the basics from those before him/her and _then_ put their own spin on it. You can`t get there just by mixing a bit of this and that.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice, i'm gonna focus on one art learning the basics and going from there. I understand you, throwing a punch or kick with out knowing a proper movement or concept behind it would be a waste of time, therefore finding a instructor is a must. I guess my search starts now with finding a good instructor. In terms of patience i've given this quite a lot of thought always wanted to go into it when i was little. Now i got a chance wouldn't mind training for the rest of ma life that's how dedicated i am to going into this. Ah no worries about the nutrition question, I'll just have to eat twice as much lol


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

Not to discourage you here, but this is not how dedicated you are going to into this, it is how idealisticly you are going into this. Dedication requires that you dedicate yourself to it, not "make do" until better comes along. Your posts actually reveal a lack of understanding of martial arts, so you know. For one thing, what "basics" are you training? That changes from art to art. Even such fundamental things as how to punch, or kick, can change quite drastically. Finding an instructor really is the first step, as they can then guide you as to the basics you should be training.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> Well, then get off the island and move somewhere else where you can find a good instructor. If you say you have the commitment of wanting to spend 8 hours per day, 6 days per week, then something like a relocation should not be too much of a commitment either.
> 
> And the part that has been ignored so far: to what end do you want to train so much? To fight? But then you need a coach and a circuit to fight in, meaning you have to move anyway. If it is to become very good, then you also have to move because without a good trainer, you are just going to be very good at being bad at whatever you do, and by the time you actually find a trainer, your bad habits are going to be ingrained so deeply that it will take ages to get rid of them.



I get ya, guess i gotta move. My intentions behind this isn't to fight. Anyone can fight. I wana train to protect myself and love ones. I value life a lot an protecting life's a lot better than taking it. The philosophy behind certain arts are amazing and it intrigued me, in terms of a lifestyle, one of a martial artist is a simple yet healthy one. Therefore it suits me. I just wana find my limit, find some peace.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

If that's your intention (protect yourself and others around you, rather than be a competitive fighter), then you frankly don't need anything like that schedule. In fact, I'd strongly advise against it. Honestly, it sounds like you don't understand what a philosophy of an art is, and have a very romanticised idea of a "martial artists life". This is actually bordering on obsessive behavioural patterns, so you know, and this type of approach won't bring any form of peace, as that requires balance, and it's not present here. This is why we've been against your planned approach from the get-go, really.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Not to discourage you here, but this is not how dedicated you are going to into this, it is how idealisticly you are going into this. Dedication requires that you dedicate yourself to it, not "make do" until better comes along. Your posts actually reveal a lack of understanding of martial arts, so you know.  That changes from art to art. Even such fundamental things as how to punch, or kick, can change quite drastically. Finding an instructor really is the first step, as they can then guide you as to the basics you should be training.



Your words aren't discouraging, i understand where your coming from with this. "For one thing, what "basics" are you training?"  So far my main focus has been on qigong breathing, understanding the qi circulatory system in the human body. I havn't been messing around with various technics from different martial arts. I paced myself doing one thing at a time. So far its just muay thai technics. punches,knees,elbows,kicks. Finding an instructor is a must and that's what i'll do.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> If that's your intention (protect yourself and others around you, rather than be a competitive fighter), then you frankly don't need anything like that schedule. In fact, I'd strongly advise against it. Honestly, it sounds like you don't understand what a philosophy of an art is, and have a very romanticised idea of a "martial artists life". This is actually bordering on obsessive behavioural patterns, so you know, and this type of approach won't bring any form of peace, as that requires balance, and it's not present here. This is why we've been against your planned approach from the get-go, really.



To each his own path.

And here i thought someone of experience would give me good advice, some times its better to watch animals in their natural environment, than to consult with man.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

Okay, I've asked this before, but what actual training do you have under an instructor in qigong? Or is it all from reading?

Oh, and that really is not advice I offered there, but an objective appraisal of how you are presenting yourself. The straight defensive responce actually more confirms it than anything else. But the bit about such a schedule being detrimental is actually quite good advice, and believe me, comes from a lot more experience than you may realise.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Okay, I've asked this before, but what actual training do you have under an instructor in qigong? Or is it all from reading?
> 
> Oh, and that really is not advice I offered there, but an objective appraisal of how you are presenting yourself. The straight defensive responce actually more confirms it than anything else. But the bit about such a schedule being detrimental is actually quite good advice, and believe me, comes from a lot more experience than you may realise.




I have some books an dvds from Dr. Yang. Next year i'm gonna attend a few of his seminars.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

So can you clarify if you have any training whatsoever under any instructor in any system at all?


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## Omar B (Sep 22, 2010)

ryo said:


> Your words aren't discouraging, i understand where your coming from with this. "For one thing, what "basics" are you training?"  So far my main focus has been on qigong breathing, understanding the qi circulatory system in the human body. I havn't been messing around with various technics from different martial arts. I paced myself doing one thing at a time. So far its just muay thai technics. punches,knees,elbows,kicks. Finding an instructor is a must and that's what i'll do.



You really should get an instructor.  If you think your base is Qigong from no actual training you'll just end up hurting yourself and developing bad habits that will be hard to break, Quigong is a tough style and takes a lot of understanding of technique and mechanics.  You can't mix techniques from style just willy nilly, even if you consider them basics.  There's a Japanese style front kick, Korean, Chinese, Phillipino, Thai, French, etc, all look like the same kick to the untrained eye or just like throwing your leg up there.  

Each style is developed within a specific culture for specific purposes, and trying to parrot what you see or what you think you see isnt really doing anything.  Does a western stance work with a Japanese kick?  Does Chinese based hand positioning mix with a Japanese style defense, Thai?  Does a western punch deliver as much power when delivered from a Thai stance, Japanese, Chinese, Korean?

Things don't mix well when you don't know the guiding philosophies, the subtle mechanics, how power is delivered.  Even correct form is a tough topic because a couple millimeters off one way or another destroys speed, power, efficient movement.  Many styles don't depend on strength, but on proper form to mechanically deliver lots of power.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> So can you clarify if you have any training whatsoever under any instructor in any system at all?




One, my close friend with 31 yrs experience in karate. It was a week of lessons then it stopped. What ever else i learned was from books and dvds ei. Qigong


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

Then this'll sound like we're repeating ourselves, but...

Get an instructor. Develop a training schedule with their advise. Forget this overblown romanticised unrealistic approach. It would do more harm than good. Til then, you really don't have anything to work with.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Omar B said:


> You really should get an instructor.  If you think your base is Qigong from no actual training you'll just end up hurting yourself and developing bad habits that will be hard to break, Quigong is a tough style and takes a lot of understanding of technique and mechanics.  You can't mix techniques from style just willy nilly, even if you consider them basics.  There's a Japanese style front kick, Korean, Chinese, Phillipino, Thai, French, etc, all look like the same kick to the untrained eye or just like throwing your leg up there.
> 
> Each style is developed within a specific culture for specific purposes, and trying to parrot what you see or what you think you see isnt really doing anything.  Does a western stance work with a Japanese kick?  Does Chinese based hand positioning mix with a Japanese style defense, Thai?  Does a western punch deliver as much power when delivered from a Thai stance, Japanese, Chinese, Korean?
> 
> Things don't mix well when you don't know the guiding philosophies, the subtle mechanics, how power is delivered.  Even correct form is a tough topic because a couple millimeters off one way or another destroys speed, power, efficient movement.  Many styles don't depend on strength, but on proper form to mechanically deliver lots of power.


 
I understand, i've put a lot of deep thought into this and understanding the concept behind a move is a must in any art. My priority right now is to get a good instructor an focus on one art.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Then this'll sound like we're repeating ourselves, but...
> 
> Get an instructor. Develop a training schedule with their advise. Forget this overblown romanticised unrealistic approach. It would do more harm than good. Til then, you really don't have anything to work with.



Ya, guess I'll have to learn an foreign language an relocate to asia.


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## Chris Parker (Sep 22, 2010)

Ha, nothing so drastic, really. Somewhere that speaks English should be fine. Oh, and it's not understanding the "concept" behind a move, after all, the concept behind a punch to the face is, well, a punch to the face! It's more about having a congruent way of approaching a combative method, without it, you'll never have anything that'll have any benefit or success at all (which is sometimes refered to as the systems "guiding philosophy", really a synthesised set of values and beliefs that give rise to the behaviours; the physical techniques, training methods, power source, angling, and more. But it needs to be congruent within itself in order to work).


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## Jenna (Sep 22, 2010)

ryo said:


> The philosophy behind certain arts are amazing and it intrigued me, in terms of a lifestyle, one of a martial artist is a simple yet healthy one. Therefore it suits me. I just wana find my limit, find some peace.


*ryo*, I do not think that what is being advised here by the other members need conflict at all with your personal goals 

Please do seek out the counsel of a good, world-beyond-youtube instructor - or instructors as there is nothing to prevent you training multiple compatible arts simultaneously.  Then when you have begun to train, by all means train your *** off, practice as much as you desire within the time you have available to you.  In that way you will find progression with your chosen instructor is quickened by your training dedication and desire to find your own personal limit.

fyi I think your tenacity - if you utilise it positively - is a laudable trait


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Chris Parker said:


> Ha, nothing so drastic, really. Somewhere that speaks English should be fine. Oh, and it's not understanding the "concept" behind a move, after all, the concept behind a punch to the face is, well, a punch to the face! It's more about having a congruent way of approaching a combative method, without it, you'll never have anything that'll have any benefit or success at all (which is sometimes refered to as the systems "guiding philosophy", really a synthesised set of values and beliefs that give rise to the behaviours; the physical techniques, training methods, power source, angling, and more. But it needs to be congruent within itself in order to work).




Therefore i need a good instructor and practice the right thing in order for it to work. I get ya :ultracool


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Jenna said:


> *ryo*, I do not think that what is being advised here by the other members need conflict at all with your personal goals
> 
> Please do seek out the counsel of a good, world-beyond-youtube instructor - or instructors as there is nothing to prevent you training multiple compatible arts simultaneously.  Then when you have begun to train, by all means train your *** off, practice as much as you desire within the time you have available to you.  In that way you will find progression with your chosen instructor is quickened by your training dedication and desire to find your own personal limit.
> 
> fyi I think your tenacity - if you utilise it positively - is a laudable trait




Thanks, no youtube, i buy the dvds  , ya i'll get me a good instructor/s and train as hard as i can.


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## Omar B (Sep 22, 2010)

Even buying DVDs is misleading.  At best they are reference materials for someone who already knows the technique, or it could be promoted as teaching you something.  

I have DVDs, but it was because I wanted to have a video of my grandmaster doing the kata I learned at school.  Even learning's the same style slightly drifts from one instructor to another depending on his build, felxability, ability, etc.  It's always good to go back and see the prototype of how it should be done.


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## ryo (Sep 22, 2010)

Yup, nothing beats an actual instructor. Though i think its good to have informative dvds on something ya interested in.That way you have a better understanding when you actually train.


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## Bruno@MT (Sep 23, 2010)

ryo said:


> To each his own path.
> 
> And here i thought someone of experience would give me good advice, some times its better to watch animals in their natural environment, than to consult with man.



You are getting good advice. You just don't recognize it.
For the purpose of self defense, you really don't need to train like terminator unless you are up against a drug kartel. And even then, just moving would be a better idea.

Also, while you are training 8 hours per day, you are not working so you don't have a decent income so you can't provide a good life for your loved ones. You are also not giving them any attention so they'll be estranged after a while and you'll come back to an empty house if things get bad enough.

Taking care of people includes all those 'boring' details like having a stable job, getting a house in a good neigborhood, having the resources to put your kids in a good school, being able to pay a trustowrthy babysit if you ever need one, going to pt evenings at school to talk with the teachers, going out on a date with your wife, and dozens of other important things. Learning to fight is just one more thing to do. But honestly, not the most important one either (living in a safe neighborhood is more effective than you being terminator).

So don't go obsessing about becoming a killing machine because it will be counterproductive in the bigger picture if you are never at home and not working a good job.


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## bribrius (Sep 23, 2010)

holy carp.

The MOST i ever trained was summer as a teenager. And i couldnt even to it now.

wake up basic pushups, pull ups, crunches. Relax a couple hours. off to the gym. weight train. Leave. eat lunch. Practice ma. Go for a run. eat a snack. Back to the gym. weight train again. Eat a early supper. If i already ran i wouldn't if i hadnt i would. Go through the wrestling workout from highschool wrestling, or go to wrestling practice when i did it. When in ma i would go before then, when not i would spend a hour on the heavy bag... Eat again.

Bed.

I ate whatever i could shove in a food processor that looked healthy with raw eggs and lots of the carnation instant breakfast or old people drinks out of cans.

Also had a manual for marine commando workouts. I followed that for a brief time.
Like i said, i couldn't do it now........ Looking back i think i was nuts.

edit: and tuna fish. i had this thing with eating tunafish right out of the can with the old people carnation or ensure type drinks......and snacked on alot of life cereal...


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## ryo (Sep 23, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> You are getting good advice. You just don't recognize it.
> For the purpose of self defense, you really don't need to train like terminator unless you are up against a drug kartel. And even then, just moving would be a better idea.
> 
> Also, while you are training 8 hours per day, you are not working so you don't have a decent income so you can't provide a good life for your loved ones. You are also not giving them any attention so they'll be estranged after a while and you'll come back to an empty house if things get bad enough.
> ...



I recognize all what they said , they gave me good advice and I've came up with a good conclusion thanks to that advice. You know just quoting one or two lines, without reading all my replies is out of context. Ah well.

And i get ya the simple things in life are of greater importance.Yup living in a safe place is way better than being a terminator. I dont plan on being a terminator lol.


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## ryo (Sep 23, 2010)

bribrius said:


> holy carp.
> 
> The MOST i ever trained was summer as a teenager. And i couldnt even to it now.
> 
> ...




woah now that's a schedule :ultracool


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## bribrius (Sep 23, 2010)

ryo said:


> woah now that's a schedule :ultracool


 

mostly because i had plenty of time and much of it was free and cheap.

spent probably a hundred bucks on survival books. For fun on weekends  i would go treking through the woods with my back pack, knife and axe and shovel.

Dig holes and cover them and make traps.  Make shelters.  (i ended up going military if you haven't guessed).  Did some hunting depending on what was in season and had access to a pool and lake so swimming.

The escrima was five bucks a class then. The gym was free. With wrestling we had the weight room at our school plus we got free gym memberships. So weight training didn't cost anything.  Running only required good sneakers.

Heavy bag and weights at the house were only three hundred bucks or so. The weights bought second hand.

Much of it was keeping the current weight while building stamina and strength.  That is why it is a blend of weight training and running. I weighed in around 160 to 170 lbs. then depending. Benched 240 lbs. Couldnt run for five miles but could jog it.  For comparison i am 230 pounds now and am probably only a inch taller just under 6' 2".

It is the food that costs money. And without having the dough and the weight lifting and health food supplaments being expensive (and not common back then) the carnation and ensure type drinks were within my price range.

Much of it was to do with wrestling.  Making your weight and being as strong and quick as possible.


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## KELLYG (Sep 23, 2010)

Ryo,

You are one enthusiastic dude.  I appreciate that a lot but I tend to agree with what most of the people before me have stated.  I also believe that other than just general conditioning, if you are practicing what you have seen on DVD's Utube Video's etc, you are going to miss so much of the information that is so subtle that it can not be seen by someone who has no experience.  In my opinion unless your fundamentals are solid you will be practicing crap for the duration of the marathon these training sessions.   I would much rather have 10 minutes with someone that knows and understands techniques, application, and theory than spin my wheels.  Train smarter not harder.


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## ryo (Sep 23, 2010)

bribrius said:


> mostly because i had plenty of time and much of it was free and cheap.
> 
> spent probably a hundred bucks on survival books. For fun on weekends  i would go treking through the woods with my back pack, knife and axe and shovel.
> 
> ...



You've done quite alot.

Wish everything was cheap over here  , Yup the forest's amazing, i've  camped out a few times. Food cooked on three stones in the wild tastes  better than the regular kitchen. Some times it becomes a habit i still  use a machete to clean a chicken an other meats  .


Weight training an running seems quite promising so i'll work on that, till i get me an a good MA Instructor. Keeping fit till i can actually train will do quite well.


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## ryo (Sep 23, 2010)

KELLYG said:


> Ryo,
> 
> You are one enthusiastic dude.  I appreciate that a lot but I tend to agree with what most of the people before me have stated.  I also believe that other than just general conditioning, if you are practicing what you have seen on DVD's Utube Video's etc, you are going to miss so much of the information that is so subtle that it can not be seen by someone who has no experience.  In my opinion unless your fundamentals are solid you will be practicing crap for the duration of the marathon these training sessions.   I would much rather have 10 minutes with someone that knows and understands techniques, application, and theory than spin my wheels.  Train smarter not harder.



Yup, that's why I'm gonna search for a qualified instructor an go from there. I'll train smarter from now on . Thanx for the advice


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## Bruno@MT (Sep 23, 2010)

I saw someone mention raw eggs: raw eggs or cooked eggs are equally easy to digest, and equally nutricious. No need to risk salmonella. But if you do want to consume raw eggs (sometimes you can't really avoid them) be sure to wash them beforehand. Not many people know this, but salmonella is usually on the outside of the egg.


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## ryo (Sep 23, 2010)

Bruno@MT said:


> I saw someone mention raw eggs: raw eggs or cooked eggs are equally easy to digest, and equally nutricious. No need to risk salmonella. But if you do want to consume raw eggs (sometimes you can't really avoid them) be sure to wash them beforehand. Not many people know this, but salmonella is usually on the outside of the egg.



oh, didn't know that, well all my eggs are fried


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## bribrius (Sep 23, 2010)

ryo said:


> oh, didn't know that, well all my eggs are fried


 
get over it. just throw them in the blender with whatever else. Your going to train remember? suck it up.

okay, if you must wash them off first LOL!!!!!


in all seriousness. The thread seems kind of negative. I posted Just trying to offer you some encouragement. I am probably a novice compared to most of the posters here. There are people here that know a hell of a lot more than me. And I really can't fathom how you will continue to have this amount of time. I have kids, work, bills, i dont have that kind of time anymore. 

But if you want to do it why not encourage you? I think most would suggest qualified instruction and i do as well. But short of having it you can train yourself. You won't get the techniques perfect. You will be missing most of the pieces. You won't know any real correct "art" but you sure can learn. You can put yourself through the drills, and be harder on yourself than many instructors. Many instructors are no where near as hard on students as you can be to yourself. Things are all about safety now and avoiding lawsuits. 

And if you don't know it right, or dont have the technique or move right, it really comes down to how you can defend yourself. Does it work? And that is what i thought your primary goal was. You can train yourself to beat the crap out of alot of people both outside or those that train in a dojo. Especially since much of it appears watered down and are kind of "weekend warriors" mentality. It won't be pretty but you could knock the head off many that actually get real instruction. The level you can push yourself will easily surpass most of the training offered, at least that i see around. Question would be why do you want to and do you really have that kind of time...do you have the discipline? 

i know i sure as hell dont anymore. 

it really isn't for someone that is settled with family and responsibility...

I have known only a couple people that went that route as adults. One didn't have a family or kids. The other has a family and kids but doesn't support them. He basically doesn't hold a job and fights for money. And their frame of mind isn't like most of the people you are going to meet at a martial arts school. Definately not like most people you meet outside a martial arts school. Kinda of borderline lunatics but suppose it works. One doesn't even have any furniture he doesn't believe in it. sleeps on the floor. Not worth it to me, personally. I wouldn't want to live that way. choice is yours what you do and how far you want to take it.

That is why most probably go to class a couple times a week and put a few hours a week into training. They balance it with other things. They are well, normal.


i probably haven't helped much , but hey, i tried...


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