# Shin Conditioning, Diet, and Sex for Performance?



## stuartSan (Feb 22, 2006)

Hey guys. I've been doing MT for only a couple of months, and I really like it. I've searched for shin conditioning threads, and I find it really contradictory. Some say the shin gets harder, some say only the nerves are dead, and yet some say any type of conditioning gives you a hard time when you're older.

I'm just curious, my Kru says that to supplement bag kicking, I'll need to roll and tap (softly) my shins with a rattan/bamboo type wood, whenever I'm free. I've researched it, and can't come to a conclusion, because of the variety of answers out there. Will this make my bones weak, when I'm 80? Will my bones be frail, and chipped, because of the way I'm conditioning it now?

Also, my Kru plans to set another Book of Records (Malaysia) entry of highest number of kicks in 24 hours by his team. He asks them to avoid red meat at all costs, until that day. So second question is, what would a MT stylist eat, to be in peak physical condition? Not to mention look lean.

And the third question is, he says no sex till that day too. Is this a myth? Something psychological? Does it really help if you don't have sex before a physically demanding day?

Sorry for the newbish questions, just curious. If there's a way to increase my physical state, I'll do it! Feeling healthy is just great. Thanks.


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## Makalakumu (Feb 22, 2006)

First of all...welcome to MT!

Secondly, as far as conditioning goes, remember that one is damaging the body in order to strengthen it.  If you take it too far, then you will be in for trouble.

Thirdly, I don't know about the sex thing.  My teacher said the same thing before my dan test.  I disregarded the recomendation and passed anyway.  I think that coaches training fighters for sport may be worried about their athletes getting too caught up with the "pursuit" and less focused on the competition...

upnorthkyosa

ps - ...as if the two actually differed... 

pps - that was a joke...:ultracool


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## Kenpodoc (Feb 22, 2006)

stuartSan said:
			
		

> And the third question is, he says no sex till that day too. Is this a myth? Something psychological? Does it really help if you don't have sex before a physically demanding day?


Naw, He's just jealous.

Jeff


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## Sarah (Feb 22, 2006)

I believe it is no sex for men so you get that build up of testosterone..but PLENTY of sex for woman for the same reason, we get a rush of testosterone after sex from what I hear.


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## SAVAGE (Feb 22, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> I believe it is no sex for men so you get that build up of testosterone..but PLENTY of sex for woman for the same reason, we get a rush of testosterone after sex from what I hear.


 
well I am sure that this is going to be a fun experiment!


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## OUMoose (Feb 23, 2006)

Welcome to MT!!

As far as shin conditioning, I was always taught that tapping, rolling, etc is not going to get someone to where they desire to be.  The idea is that as you kick, small fractures form in your bone, which heal harder than before.  If you go too fast, the damage will be to your nerves, which will deaden the sensitivity over time.  

Can't comment on the red meat thing, as I'm an avid carnivore. heh.

I've heard the same thing as Sarah about sex before a competition.  

Hope this helps and good luck in your training!!


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## stuartSan (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for the reply guys. My Kru says no sex, but I've seen sites that say you shouldn't even masturbate, to preserve your energy. That's why they neuter or isolate fighting cocks and bulls, or so it seems. Haven't heard of that in relation to humans before.


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## stone_dragone (Feb 25, 2006)

Sarah said:
			
		

> I believe it is no sex for men so you get that build up of testosterone..but PLENTY of sex for woman for the same reason, we get a rush of testosterone after sex from what I hear.


 
Ok. I'm gonna say it...

NO FAIR!!!!!



			
				stuartSan said:
			
		

> That's why they neuter or isolate fighting cocks and bulls, or so it seems. Haven't heard of that in relation to humans before.


 
I must admit. I don't really want to win that bad.


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## DeLamar.J (Feb 27, 2006)

From my own testing, not having sex just makes your more agressive. Beyond that I felt nothing more.


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## WildBill (Mar 2, 2006)

Hi I am 42, and still competeing. I do know a bit about diet and shin conditioning. The sex thing is just B.S I think, I don`t even think about that.....unless maybe you stayed up screwwing all night right before your fight, you don`t want to be tired get a good nights sleep the last week or so of training.

Eating is basic, fresh whole foods, organic is best, a variety of meats, fish and plenty of fresh veg., rice and whole grains are good carbs. I stay away from white bread, sugar and too much dairy...I find those make me feel sluggish and slow. I would not eat a steak the night before a fight....but during training the extra protien is good for you. I take extra vitamins and glucosamine, also brewers yeast, extra C if I get injured or a cold etc. I train and eat with the goal of improveing my speed, flexibility, power....I don`t train for arobic....but for anarobic potential. Wind sprints etc, hard 3 min rounds....not a lot of long runs, but running is important. The meal that was recomended to me (by a former pro world champ) for fight day was chicken and rice, not a big meal, about 5 hours before the fight...after that nothing but water, enough to hydrate but do not over do it.

I train pretty hard for the six weeks before a fight, from 2 1/2 too 1 hour a day...two days a week off for healing and rebuilding. At my age one of the biggest challenges I have is keeping the wieght off. Trainning like this makes me ravinous.....8). I pretty much can`t eat bread or extra junky stuff....a few corn chips. I also don`t drink too much coffee, especialy during the last week....mostly the last 5 days or so I just rest and heal.

  I am fighting amature fights, 3-2 min rounds, 10oz gloves, mouth gaurd and cup. Your shins will take a terrific beating. After my first fight my right shin was purple from ankle too knee, but it did not dent or hurt too much for me too continue kicking full power with it. The liniment helps during the fight, but after it will hurt. About 30 minutes after the fight the color was mostly back to normal....until the next morning then it was QUITE colorfull.

I mostly just kick the lowwer part of the heavy bag FULL power every time I worked out, as I get better and kick harder my shin condintioning keeps up. The bag I use is HARD at the bottom...higher up it is quite a bit softer. It hurt my ankles a lot at first, twins ankle supports helped with that. The idea is that as you kick full power you shin bends slightly around the bag, eventualy it gets heavier, denser...doesn`t bend or dent as easily. I occasionaly sparred with other fighters without pads on as well....just to get used to the pain and learn to cope with it.

Before the first fight I also tapped LIGHTLY with a pair of chop sticks....this won`t hurt the bone. It does deadin the nerves a bit....or maybe you just get used too dealing with the pain.

Either way....after "shin conditioning" you need to rub your shins down real hard....until the hair is burnned off and they get hot and hurt like hell...then put on a bit of tiger balm. Do this two three times a day for the first 6 months er so.....The rubbing gets the blood flowwing around the bones surface, helping to heal bruising and harden the bones surface as well so that it doesn`t dent as easily. 

You don`t want to dent your shins, it makes a soft spot that takes forever to heal and fill back in....it WILL happen when and if you fight bare shinned....but you don`t do it intentionally, that would weaken your shins not help them.

Are my shins hard?...hard enough to break legs, I know because it happen once. I know I can kick full power though the whole fight, I don`t care if the other guy blocks with his shin...it`ll hurt him more than it will me. I have 1 draw and one win so far...not bad for guy who started the year he turned 40.


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 2, 2006)

I can't find any evidence that abstaining from sex improves physical performance.  I am sure that abstaining does not increase testosterone levels.  

Jeff


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## Jimi (Mar 2, 2006)

Question Kenpodoc, I understand your point, but would you agree or disagree with this statement. Sex before a fight/competition can diminish your strength/endurance reserve. Not an attack on your opinion, just wondering. PEACE


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## INDYFIGHTER (Mar 2, 2006)

There's a line from Rocky where Mick tells Rock that "Women weaken legs!".


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 2, 2006)

Jimi said:
			
		

> Question Kenpodoc, I understand your point, but would you agree or disagree with this statement. Sex before a fight/competition can diminish your strength/endurance reserve. Not an attack on your opinion, just wondering. PEACE


Disagree.  Sex 10 minutes beforehand might take the edge off and men tend to get sleepy but the adrenaline rush probably causes weaker legs in those not prepared and the normal adrenaline of competition should outweigh any post coital relaxation.

Jeff


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## Kenpodoc (Mar 2, 2006)

INDYFIGHTER said:
			
		

> There's a line from Rocky where Mick tells Rock that "Women weaken legs!".


I suspect the real weakening comes from finding a life outside of the training regimen.

Jeff


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## Jimi (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks for your insight Kenpodoc. My wife has no excuse now. HAHAHA! PEACE


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## Jagermeister (Mar 19, 2006)

Sex doesn't affect testosterone levels. If that were the case, guys who abstained from sex would be bigger and stronger than those who didn't.

The archaic training advice to avoid sex before athletic competition has some value (although very little) given the idea that a heavy session with the misses on the night before the competition doesn't very well constitute resting. It can actually be quite a workout sometimes, as most of you probably know, and may result in less sleep than desired. So if I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about your coach's instruction. You know your body better than anyone else, after all. If you feel that sex leaves you feeling fatigued, hold off on it. If it doesn't affect you, go for it.

As far as diet goes, I don't know. There are boxing books that focus exclusively on fight preparation that get into the detail you're looking for.

As far as shin conditioning goes, it's kind of a tricky subject considering there haven't been any kind of studies done on this. Just a few months ago, I had the same uncertainty you are having. If you want to see all the information I came across during my hunt for the answer to this riddle, you can search the various threads I participated in on this very subject to see how I came to my conclusion. Most of it is contradictory, as you say, so if you don't feel like laboring through all of that crap, I can say in brief that, in my understanding, hitting the pads and especially the heavy bag is the way to go. It hurts quite a bit along the way, but give it 6 months or so and the conditioning should be getting pretty good to where you can kick about full strength without feeling pain. It's not the quick and easy way, however, which has additional consequences. There are some nightmare stories on here that I've read from guys who used to bang their shins with sticks all the time and use polling pins on them. This is a bad idea. No one in Thailand does this kind of conditioning. They hit the bag. And no, they don't kick trees like Van Damme.

So you're probably wondering what exactly happens to the shin during this process. I'm not sure on this. I know some things that don't happen to it, though. The tibia's bone density does not increase, i.e. the bone doesn't get harder. And I highly doubt that the shins are "denting" and "bending" as previously described in this thread during this strengthening process. Some people think it's a process of continually causing stress fractures, but these injuries, regardless of the bone affected, don't necessarily heal up nice and tidy as we'd like, so I have my doubts with that theory. And if you want to see what the potential result may be if you decide to fight despite having an unhealed stress fracture, look for my thread entitled "this made me want to throw up" (or something like that). Not a pretty picture, to say the least. There's also a myth circulating that in Thailand the rates of shin cancer are higher due the disproportionally large number of Muay Thai fighters that have damaged their shins over the years. I could find no evidence outside of chatroom rumors to support this. The only cancer of the shin I found information on was Ewing's sarcoma, it isn't caused by collisions and isn't limited to the tibia only. And logically, it doesn't make sense. Cancer, simply put, is the growth of a malignant tumor, with potentially limitless growth. It would seem to me that we would see many retired fighters with amputated legs or recovering from surgeries or chemotherapy, or at the very least talking about it. But there's none of this. In my opinion, it's just something that somebody made up somewhere along the line.

My theory is that conditioning has little to do with the bone itself and everything to do with the surrounding tissue. The connective tissue around the bone is what gives us the pain when we initially start hitting the bag or even the pads, right? And most likely, if you're really green, you can't kick hard enough to damage your tibia. Yet the shin is still pretty well beat up. So what is happening? If you take a look at your shins next time, you'll see that the pain is acually concentrated in the skin, muscle, and underlying connective tissue surrounding the tibia. In comparison, when runners get hairline fractures in the tibia, they can feel very clearly that the pain is caused by damage to the bone rather than the surrounding tissue. My theory is that something happens to the shins druing the conditioning process that is somewhat analogous to the callousing of the feet, where after months or years of continual bruising and continual repair, the tissue becomes tougher and more desensitized.

Again, this is just my theory, but I am absolutely certain that I would never bang my shin with bottles to kill the nerves. Most of the people that I've spoken with that have done this say that it has adversely affected the circulation in their lower legs, and it seems that it's irreversible and worsens with age.

I'd appreciate any comments, especially if there are any doctors or medical professionals out there that know something about histology or the like. Thanks.


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## Sarah (Mar 19, 2006)

You may want to have a look at the following out of interest:

It is assumed that people with higher testosterone levels would drive a harder bargain and be less compromising. Research into the effects of testosterone and competitive behaviour suggests that testosterone increases competitiveness and risk taking.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/testosterone.shtml

"The procedure was conducted for each participant twice, both before and after a 3-week period of sexual abstinence. Plasma was subsequently analysed for concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, prolactin, luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations. Orgasm increased blood pressure, heart rate, plasma catecholamines and prolactin. These effects were observed both before and after sexual abstinence. In contrast, although plasma testosterone was unaltered by orgasm, *higher testosterone concentrations were observed following the period of abstinence.* 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone


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## Jagermeister (Mar 19, 2006)

It's interesting, but I'm skeptical.  To read the study you have to subscribe to the journal, so we don't know how significant the increase in testosterone levels was, and given that the study only included 10 participants, it's hard to draw and solid conclusions from it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=11760788&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


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