# The Traditional Bow in Modern Conflicts



## tellner (Apr 2, 2008)

The link goes to archery battles in the recent ethnic warfare in the Kenyan rift valley. One picture includes a sling. It's a very interesting window onto irregular warfare warfare as it was practiced before gunpowder.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 2, 2008)

I know that it's intellectually interesting to see archaic weapons in use but I have to confess I found it rather chilling seeing 'civilians' clad in modern fabrics, wearing baseball caps wielding bows in earnest.

I know it's tribalism and is no different at it's base than the 'gang war' territorialism but it struck a chord in me by it's dichotomy.  I shall now go to bed thoroughly depressed at the lack of evolution that has occurred in mans soul.


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 2, 2008)

They certainly are chilling images, men in suit jackets fighting a battle with bows.  It was the sheer number of combatants that struck me.  There were some very strong and emotive images there as well.

Is this a view of ancient warfare?  At a tribal level it is probably not far removed from what might have occurred 4000 years ago.  When you read about ancient warfare you don't touch base with this aspect very often.  We encounter descriptions of set-piece affairs between professional and semi-professional armies, there are very few descriptions of what irregular warfare was like.

As disturbing as it is to see 21st century men in modern fabrics and fashions in conflict with bows and slings, it can give a definite insight into the past.  I just think it should be happening in this day and age.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm not quite sure that you typed what you meant in your last sentence there, *ST*.  Was there an 'interrupt' between mind and key?


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## tellner (Apr 2, 2008)

> I know it's tribalism and is no different at it's base than the 'gang war' territorialism but it struck a chord in me by it's dichotomy. I shall now go to bed thoroughly depressed at the lack of evolution that has occurred in mans soul



Tribalism? Gang war territorialism? 

This is what human beings *are*. We fight each other over  keeping control of resources within the circle of our kin. It's no different than the tribalism and gang warfare of the British and Argentineans over a bunch of worthless rocks in the South Atlantic or a local and a transplanted group of islanders over neighborhoods in six tiny counties in occupied Ireland. 

At least the murder's over something real - land and power - rather than whether you whether you wear blue and yellow tribal regalia (Portsmouth) or red and white ceremonial rags (Manchester United).

What's shocking is the traditional weapons and twentieth century European clothes. If they were half-naked savages it would be easier to pooh-pooh the whole thing. When they look more like people you see every day you realize how shallow peace, justice and tolerance really are.


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## Sukerkin (Apr 2, 2008)

Your last paragraph was precisely my point, *Tellner*.  

I think you may have mis-interpreted the rest of my words in a very negative fashion.  

I'm too tired to take it personally or indeed make much of it at all except to note that of late there has been a distressingly increasing combativeness in the posts of members I would have expected better of.


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## tellner (Apr 2, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> They certainly are chilling images, men in suit jackets fighting a battle with bows.  It was the sheer number of combatants that struck me.  There were some very strong and emotive images there as well.


As I said, humanity reduced to one of the essentials. It's just as well that they had bows and not firearms. They would have killed each other a lot more efficiently if they had.



> Is this a view of ancient warfare?  At a tribal level it is probably not far removed from what might have occurred 4000 years ago.  When you read about ancient warfare you don't touch base with this aspect very often.  We encounter descriptions of set-piece affairs between professional and semi-professional armies, there are very few descriptions of what irregular warfare was like.


That's why this is so interesting. The loose ranks and open skirmish formations make a lot of sense given the weapons. I'd be interested to know if they kept in bow range or if the ranks clashed. If they did it would be instructive to see how the formations changed and what weapons they used close in. I saw one guy with a seme and nobody with spears.


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## tellner (Apr 2, 2008)

That's just it, Sukerkin. It's not shocking. Human beings can be brutal and violent in groups as well as individually. The costumes and tools are completely arbitrary. 

I've always had a somewhat pessimistic view of people that way. If one has to beat people into unconsciousness a few times before one can shave because they don't like one's tribal affiliation it gives a certain perspective. I've never believed that we were fundamentally more advanced than that. I'm often pleasantly surprised with how nice people can be. I am seldom surprised - though often disgusted - at the reverse.


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