# A question about the form "Statue of the Crane"



## mhouse (Jun 15, 2004)

Good Morning,

 For those of you with a Bryant & Nohelty/Villari/Cerio/Presare/Karanzempo background, I'm hoping you can help me with a couple of questions about the form 'Statue of the Crane'.

 1. What is the origin of the form? Where does it come from and who introduced it to the system?

 2. What is supposed to be happening during the 3 step hop (also refered to by some of our students and 'that little dance') before the first Crane stance and block?

Thank you in advance for your help.


----------



## dsp921 (Jun 15, 2004)

I can't help you with the first question off the top of my head, but I
can tell you how the "little dance" was explained to me.  Was told
that you are stepping in to attack but the opponent is also coming
in.  You move back and into the crane stance to block.  Right or wrong
that's the way my instructor described the move when he taught the form.

Also, I know this form as "Statute of the Crane".  That's what Professor
Cerio has in "The Master's Text"  page 92.  Statute as in law or rule.
Statues don't move....

I'll see if I can find out more about question 1, but I sure someone will
fill in the details before I do.  Hope I helped at least a little.

-Dave


----------



## Mark L (Jun 15, 2004)

mhouse said:
			
		

> 2. What is supposed to be happening during the 3 step hop (also refered to by some of our students and 'that little dance') before the first Crane stance and block?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help.


The context in that particular sequence doesn't necessarily support my view, but if you're engaged with an opponent who is knocked to the ground, then the 'little dance' can be interpreted as stomps.  Go forward to stomp the face, backward to stomp the groin, then back further to the crane stance to get away from a counter attack.  That doesn't fit the form since the movement isn't preceeded by take down.  

That's my instructors take on the movement, but distance management also makes sense.  We've practiced this as an addendum to some of our techniques, there are lots of targets once the BG is down, however, it does look pretty goofy ...


----------



## kenmpoka (Jun 15, 2004)

mhouse said:
			
		

> Good Morning,
> 
> For those of you with a Bryant & Nohelty/Villari/Cerio/Presare/Karanzempo background, I'm hoping you can help me with a couple of questions about the form 'Statue of the Crane'.
> 
> ...


"Statue of the Crane" aka "stature of the Crane" is based on the Okinawan kata "Rohai".  Adapted and adopted either by Mr. Pesare or Mr. Cerio.
There are three versions of Rohai (I,II,III) created by Ankoh Itosu. The Koreans (Tang Soo Do) have also their own adptation (based on the Okinawan). "Meikyo" is the Japanese adaptation based on the three variations. "Statue of the Crane" is closer to the Korean version.
In the original version, the hops are forward and side ways, meant to distract the attacker or to avoid attacks.
The theory of stomping on the balls of your feet cannot be correct!!!

Respectfully,


----------



## Mark L (Jun 15, 2004)

kenmpoka said:
			
		

> The theory of stomping on the balls of your feet cannot be correct!!!
> 
> Respectfully,


Why?


----------



## kenmpoka (Jun 15, 2004)

Mark L said:
			
		

> Why?


Hello Mark L,

Try stomping on the balls of your feet. No balance, stability or power. 

Salute,


----------



## dsp921 (Jun 15, 2004)

OK, I just heard back from my instructor and he said that Professor
Cerio explained the sequence to him the way I mentioned.  Move
in, then back out when they attack and get into crane to block.
This is of course the Cerio version, I've seen people of the Villari lineage
doing their form and it is slightly different so the bunkai could also
be different

I never thought about about the stomp possibilities.  We do that 
sequence really light on the feet, almost kung fu like so stomps
really wouldn't work for us.  I also don't know that I would get into
a crane stance for a downed opponent.  I guess everyone has their
own interpretation of these things.


----------



## mhouse (Jun 15, 2004)

When I had first learned it, we were told it was the 3 stomps. However, that didn't really sit well. The question came up in class and thus this post. 

I'll have to look into Rohai forms.  The Tang Soo Do connection makes me wonder if it was added as foot work practice to be light on your feet and we are translating it in the bunkai as best we can. 

 I like the distancing interpretaion, but it leads to a new question. What are your hands kept at your waist while doing the 3 hops?  If you are drawing your attacker in wouldn't some form of a guard be better? I know that the true application is often hidden in the form, but I'm having trouble envisioning it with my fists planted on my waist.


----------



## Mark L (Jun 15, 2004)

kenmpoka said:
			
		

> Hello Mark L,
> 
> Try stomping on the balls of your feet. No balance, stability or power.
> 
> Salute,


I have, every time I do the form.  Balance and stability aren't a problem, power is solely derived from my body weight landing in a small area.  So the next question is "What about landing on something other than the dojo floor?"  Quite a legitimate point, I don't have a good answer.  Frankly, I wouldn't use this technique anyplace other than the form, and if I wanted to close distance to an adversary I certainly wouldn't do it using this method.  So neither explanation is very satisfying.

When doing the hops is your focus more on the horizontal or vertical motion, or both?


----------



## KempoSpirit (Jun 15, 2004)

Hi all,
These are all good thoughts.  Considor these additions:
The crane is one of the five primary animals of kempo.
Try to think in the context of the time period (not modern day).
Origins of animal forms, as we all know, are based in part on the natural movement both offensively/defensively by these animals as noticed by the monks of old.
Interpretations/adaptations were developed in order for humans to protect themselves in similiar fasions.
Remember, I don't believe that it was on their minds at the time, given their beliefs in religion, budhism-zen-etc., that self-preservation would work for them very well if they just grabbed ahold of an assailant and pounded him with their fists.
In China/Japan everything was oriented around the health and well being of the self and being in tune WITH natural forces.  Hence the development of animal forms and the like (soft vs. hard, conservation of energy and movement theories, etc.).  Self-defense was somewhat stylistic in the sense that they believed in defending themselves in certain style based ways.  Hence, all the different systems in both Shaolin temples and beyond.  Considor this thier chivalrus period and honorable ways of doing things.
Again, the crane is noted for its strength, superior balance, patience, etc.
As I understand it passed down from the Prof. the "three step" can be interpreted as follows:
Just prior to the "three step" we turn to face a new opponent/threat.
Both our hands could either come up and strike out to the front with cranes beaks, then land on our hips till we need to use them again, or 
after crane beak striking/threatening they land on our hips in preparation for maybe having to use a wing-arm block with either arm if confronted with an attack from the front.  That takes care of the hands.
Now to the "three step":
Once we use our crane beaks we threaten an attack forward by lunging forward, then we faint back (or try to draw in our opponent) by going back and into our strong crane stance with guards up and down in preparation for our next move.  The next move is simply stepping out of the crane with an upward block and a spear hand.
Bearing all this in mind, we do not always have to have our guards up in front of us in order to protect ourselves.  Especially given the context of ancient beliefs of self-defense.  In fact, I could probably even use a side-kick if I wanted to shorten the oncoming attack, or a rev. cresent to block.
Food for thought.
Regards,


----------



## dsp921 (Jun 16, 2004)

mhouse,
We don't keep our hands on our hips while doing the forward/backward
steps, they are up in front in a fight position.  I have seen other schools
of different lineage keep their hands on their hips with their fingers in
a beak type thing.  This is why the distancing explaination works for me.


----------



## mhouse (Jun 16, 2004)

Ah, I see. Thank you.


----------



## Gentle Fist (Jun 18, 2004)

Can anyone explain the differences in the 3 Rohai Forms?


----------



## Karazenpo (Jun 19, 2004)

Stature of the Crane was added to the Karazenpo system by S. George Pesare. "Hands akimbo" ( hands on hip position) is the original, Professor Cerio's changed it to hands in front guard position for his version. Now, I read or heard this somewhere, no clue where, lol, but somewhere. Here goes. Supposedly, a fight between a white crane and a snake was observed. The crane and snake are in a stand off staring at one another awaiting one or the other to make the first move. The crane attempts to 'draw him in' by hopping toward the snake and forcing him to react. When he reacts, the crane immediately steps back in defense and then quickly counter-attacks while the snake is open or unbalanced from missing his attack. Sort of like the Kung Fu principle of softness overcomes hardness, then hardness attacks softness.  Haven't you ever used something like that in sparring when there is a temporary standoff and you set up your opponent and attempt to make him commit himself and then move in for the kill? As far as Rohai 1, 2 & 3 goes, I believe it's like this. Rohai 1 is the original. I believe the form came from southern China to Tomari in Okinawan where it blended with Okinawan te. Rohai 2 & 3 were variations in which one would be modified to fit a smaller person and the other a taller person. Respectfully, Professor Joe


----------

