# Richard J. Van Donk



## Enson

since so much was imput was given on mr. hayes i was wondering what are your thoughts about "RVD"?

i have seen his add on every black belt magazine and was wondering what his skill level is and if he is everything he claims to be?

if you get a black belt under him does that make you a bujinkan shodan or does that make you a rvd shodan?

is his school/dojo/course certified by hatsumi sensei?

thought i would submit my question to the forum for some expert opinion on bujin arts. i tried doing a search and it didn't come up with much.
www.ninjutsu.com


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## althaur

I was able to meet him once.  Nice enough guy.  Very helpful.  His skill level?  Better than me.  I think a number of people got miffed about the video stuff.  Rightly so in my opinion.  You can't learn from a video.  It should be a tool to assist in your training with an instructor.  Great for jogging your memory but not for teaching you nuances.  AFAIK, his shodan is from the Bujinkan.  He stays current on his training and his membership.  He isn't everyones cup o' tea.  I'm sure others can chime in with better info for you.

Josh


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## Enson

he claims you can go up to godan with is home study course. he also goes into a big report on how it will teach you better than a dojo.:idunno:


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## Kreth

Well, since I seem to be on a roll trashing "living legends"... I've met RVD. To be quite honest, he struck me as the used-car salesman type.  From what I've seen of his videos (both Bujinkan and the Filipino style he inherited), and his movement at Tai Kai, etc, I was not impressed.
Unfortunately, since he is a Bujinkan shidoshi, any rank he gives is recognized by the Honbu dojo, including video students.

Jeff


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## r.severe

Donk shihan is a very nice guy.
From what I have seen he is effective.
But he is NOT Hayes shihan and doesn;'t carry the knowledge Hayes shihan has on Japanese martial skills. 
His movement is his own and it works for him.
I feel it is a reflection of what he sees in Hatsumi sensei.
That's my opinion.
I personally do not care for his system of Bujinkan methods but from what I have heard they have helped a great deal of people in their studies.
One thing is for sure.. he puts his information out.. and doesn't hide.. this is more than I can say for 99% of the Bujinkan.

Bill Atkins is another wonderful martial artist in the Bujinkan too.
He has done a great deal for others throughout the USA.

Jack Hoban is another good guy.

Sean Askew is great when he escapes his vortex.

The list could go on and on...

Just because you see them on a cover of a book or magazine doesn't mean much.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Shogun

> he claims you can go up to godan with is home study course.


Well, you have to get Godan from Hatsumi Soke.


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## Enson

i have not seen his techniques but he says he is 14th dan so i assume he is pretty good. i would like to go to one of his seminars to see for myself. i really enjoy his website. i find it pretty informative and when i ask my japanese clients about ninjutsu that is the site i show them.


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## Deaf

I have not met the guy personally however my shidoshi has had the opportunity to meet him and has stated that the guy is a very nice guy and that his skill is good.

I'm not a big fan of video training solely for rank but more for a supplement for training.  Has anyone viewed the RVD series tapes?  What are your thoughts on them?

~Deaf~


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## Deaf

r.severe said:
			
		

> Sean Askew is great when he escapes his vortex.
> 
> 
> ralph severe, kamiyama



Ummm care to detail what you mean by this.  Please feel free to PM me since this is off topic.

Michael


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## Kalifallen

I believe Richard Van Donk is a 15th Dan in Taijutsu but a 10th Dan in Ninjutsu. What's the diffence? Taijutsu is the combative art you learn. Ninjutsu is the stealthing, camoflauge, concealment, survival tactics, etc. 
He is a good teacher, and yes, too 'informative' on his dojo.
He teaches Bujinkan and he and his wife visit Hatsumi at his dojo in Noda, Japan. They're still learning.
His dojo is the ABD (American Bujinkan Dojo) and there is also an international one too. When you get the certificates for passing a level/rank you get Hatsumi's and Richard's signature on it. Purely Bujinkan ninjutsu teaching, which means it is traditional.
Tapes are good but I hear Hayes' are better. Easier to learn from I mean.

Side Note: On March of 2005 Richard is having a TaiKai/training camp in the Santa Cruz mountains (California, South Bay). If anyone is interested look on the ninjutsu.com site under seminars and see if it interests you. I'm going.


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## Cryozombie

I'm going to agree with Deaf...

 I hear that RVD is very skilled... however I think that his Video Training course should be a supplement as oppsed to a "way of training"


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## Grey Eyed Bandit

Kalifallen said:
			
		

> I believe Richard Van Donk is a 15th Dan in Taijutsu but a 10th Dan in Ninjutsu. What's the diffence? Taijutsu is the combative art you learn. Ninjutsu is the stealthing, camoflauge, concealment, survival tactics, etc.


Well, this could be interesting. You seem to have understood the technical differences between taijutsu and ninjutsu, that's a good start Anyhow, something seems amiss here.

Ninjutsu, as taught in the Bujinkan, mainly exists in the three schools of Togakure, Kumogakure and Gyokushin. Official Grand Master of these schools is a Japanese gentleman named Hatsumi Masaaki. There are a few others who have menkyo kaiden in said schools (reportedly), but they are not allowed to give out menkyo to others without permission from the Japanese gentleman named Hatsumi Masaaki.

It also happens to be the case that this Japanese gentleman does not give out ranks directly related to any of these schools or their "expertise" (i.e. ninjutsu) because all of the grades in the Bujinkan are Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu/Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu, depending on how old your grading diploma is.
To summarize, if the Japanese gentleman in question has started handing out menkyo kaiden in "ninjutsu" (he gave Arnaud menkyo kaiden in tachi waza, at least) it would be very appreciated if you were to point to the source of this information.


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## jibran

This came up on Kutaki; the poster e-mailed Mr. Van Donk about it. Van Donk Shihan's response was that his judan menkyo reads 'ninjutsu' and his judan fu-i menkyo (a.k.a. 14th dan) reads 'budo taijutsu'


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## Shizen Shigoku

*jibran: "This came up on Kutaki; the poster e-mailed Mr. Van Donk about it. Van Donk Shihan's response was that his judan menkyo reads 'ninjutsu' and his judan fu-i menkyo (a.k.a. 14th dan) reads 'budo taijutsu'"*

*Nimravus: "...all of the grades in the Bujinkan are Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu/Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu, depending on how old your grading diploma is."*

Yes, for instance, my latest menkyo (sankyu) gives my rank in budo taijutsu; my first one (nanakyu received back in 1999) says ninpo taijutsu. I guess RVD got his judan back when it was called "ninjutsu."

To further clarify: RVD does not have two separate ranks in two separate arts. He is now 14th dan in budo taijutsu (the art formerly known as ninpo taijutsu, formerly known as ninjutsu).


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## Kalifallen

_it would be very appreciated if you were to point to the source of this information.
_ says, Nimravus.

um, I'm a little confused, but I got the main info on ninjutsu.com. Bits 'n pieces are around the site. HSC area, about the dojo area, etc.
Still, I'm not too such what the question was that you were asking. It seemes like you were just making statements.


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## midnightfox00

According to www.ninjutsu.com, you do not learn the Ninjutsu styles until after you reach 1st Dan...Now I have been dieing to learn the Bujinkan martial art because I was informed it is the closest thing to Modern day "Ninja" training in today's modern world.  I am now confused on what I really want to train in...and where exactly I can do it...

I was actually pretty excited about this train at home DVD that RVD has...because that would be the closest dojo to me...sadly...for the bujinkan art.  But I now understand that I will either need to drive 300 miles per training session or be SOL to learn what I have wanted to learn for quite sometime. 

It saddens me to know that I am still no closer to achieving the training I desire.  If anyone has any better suggestions for a first time student on what I should do to learn the art of Ninjutsu, other than RVD's DVD's, ...please email me...same as my name on here @yahoo.com...I have spoken with a few people on here but I really just want to start my training before it's too late.

Thanks for the information...


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## Brian R. VanCise

Midnightfox00 there are multiple Dojo's in Illinois try looking in the yellow pages at www.winjutsu.com . I imagine there are several that are closer than 300 miles.

Here is the list of Dojo's from winjutsu on their yellow pages to help you out. If one is not near then ask them if they no anybody in your area.

*Illinois*
Bujinkan Bushigokoro Dojo
Bujinkan Chicago Dojo
Bujinkan Funin Dojo
Bujinkan Hayashi Shugyo Dojo
Bujinkan Jishin Dojo
Bujinkan Mugen Sougen Dojo 
Bujinkan Rockford
Bujinkan Shingitai-Ichi Dojo 
Illinois Bujinkan Dojo
Ryu Bujinkan Dojo
Shori Bujinkan Dojo

Good luck!


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## stephen

midnightfox00 said:


> I was actually pretty excited about this train at home DVD that RVD has...because that would be the closest dojo to me...sadly...for the bujinkan art.  But I now understand that I will either need to drive 300 miles per training session or be SOL to learn what I have wanted to learn for quite sometime.




What town do you live in...I think I've met or trained with all the instructors of those dojo in Illinois....

I might be able to help you out.


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## midnightfox00

stephen said:


> What town do you live in...I think I've met or trained with all the instructors of those dojo in Illinois....
> 
> I might be able to help you out.


 
Danville, Illinois...I am 70 miles west of indianapolis, like 200 miles south of chicago, and about the same from st. louis...

If you want you can email me as well...@yahoo.com


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## elder999

Kreth said:


> From what I've seen of his videos (both Bujinkan and the Filipino style he inherited), and his movement at Tai Kai, etc, I was not impressed.


 
Actually, I've heard from a few de Cuerdas people that his inheritance of the style is a blatant canard on his part, and a comparison of his video to their movements bears this out, but who knows?


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## Shidoshi0153

I have personally used some of Van Donk's videos to get ideas or for a little inspiration during some "creative blocks" in my training.  I would assume the benefit depends on how you learn best and where you are in your training.  One thing I can say, there is no such thing as too much information.


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## Grey Eyed Bandit

I've seen the video "Combat Ninjutsu" by Van Donk. Basically, what he's demonstrating there is all the stuff I do when I can't think of anything else.


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## midnightfox00

stephen said:


> What town do you live in...I think I've met or trained with all the instructors of those dojo in Illinois....
> 
> I might be able to help you out.


 
I would greatly appreciate any help you are willing to give...I have still be unable to find any dojo's or trainers in a 40 mile radius of my town...please contact me via email or through this page if you get any results.  Thank you.


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## Josh D

Welll 40 miles is better than the 300miles that was originally stated..  I drive about 40 miles to my dojo twice a week...  Guess it comes down to how bad you want to train.


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## stephen

midnightfox00 said:


> I would greatly appreciate any help you are willing to give...I have still be unable to find any dojo's or trainers in a 40 mile radius of my town...please contact me via email or through this page if you get any results.  Thank you.





Wow. Danville....that's out there.....

Seems to me that 40 miles is pretty good for living in a smaller community. 

I drove at least that for a few years.

I would check out whoever is 40 miles away - also, I would email all the shidoshi that have websites in Illinois and Indiana and see if they can direct you to someone closer but not listed. 

You may find that one of their current students happens to live close to you and wouldn't mind splitting gas or getting in some extra training.

Forget tapes...You can copy all the form you want, but it ain't the container that matters. IMHO


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## newtothe dark

I have seen his videos and enjoy them. There are countless different ways to learn. As stated there is only ONE way to get Godan if you pass and Hatsumi Sensi is happy with your skill then I would say there you go. On his web page he lists some people who have passed that test under him so I would say his way might not be your way but seems to be working for some.


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## Bujingodai

I saw a copy of the Shodan tape of his at a friends, eh it is OK. I am not thrilled at the idea of spending a good dollar to buy it. It is a tad literal on some moves, the multiple attacker stuff wasn't really what I'd think would be all that good.
However, for a practce tape fine. He is very well spoken and gets the ideas across very well. RVD is a nice guy as well, in person even more so.


As a side I also borrowed a very old copy of the Ashida Kims Kata Dante, LOLOLOLOL. Man I wet myself, it is so enjoyable to watch. It is so odd that he takes himself seriously. Nice intro with the trenchcoat sillohette and the Rolling stones in the background hahaha.

Watch it seriously, it will relieve stress.


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## newtothe dark

bujingodai you need to get some clips up on youtube so we can all enjoy I have heard it was a great laugh.


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## Doc_Jude

elder999 said:


> Actually, I've heard from a few de Cuerdas people that his inheritance of the style is a blatant canard on his part, and a comparison of his video to their movements bears this out, but who knows?



That's BS.


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## newtothe dark

I agree Doc


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## elder999

Doc_Jude said:


> That's BS.


 

here is what I know.
_ 
**Admin note:  post has been edited and linked as agreed to by poster.**_


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## Doc_Jude

elder999 said:


> here is what I know.
> 
> _**Admin note: post has been edited and linked as agreed to by poster.**_



Where did you cute&paste this from? I've read it before.

Found it. Post #10 on this thread:
http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=814

Why are you cutting & pasting from someone else's posts?


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## elder999

Doc_Jude said:


> Where did you cute&paste this from? I've read it before.
> 
> Found it. Post #10 on this thread:
> http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=814
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you cutting & pasting from someone else's posts?


 
I wasn't at all aware of the other post-it's exactly what I heard elsewhere, though-and I'm not going to name the source-I'll just say that it's more than reliable, as far as I'm concerned, and add that it came to me as part of a direct inquiry about RVD's claim of succession on my part-one that he chose not to answer, and numerous other people did-though some did say that Richard Tenio was the legitimate heir as well. I don't have a dog in either fight, I'm just sharing what I've heard, and what I've observed-what I've observed supports what I've heard, in that RVD moves like no competent de Cuerdas person I've ever seen, at least not on his tapes-nor does he bear any resemblance to any of the other traditions that claim lineage from de Cuerdas. he does appear to be reasonably competent in "something Fillipinoish," but that's about it, IMNSHO.


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## shesulsa

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## shesulsa

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## elder999

shesulsa said:


> *Admin Note to all users:*
> 
> *This thread is reopened provided the discussion returns to the original topic and all personal attacks end.*
> 
> *G Ketchmark / shesulsa*
> *MT Assist. Administrator*


 




Enson said:


> since so much was imput was given on mr. hayes i was wondering what are your thoughts about "RVD"?



Ill admit; I acquired a set of his  ninjutsu black belt course some time ago. I know nothing of the man personally-Ive mostly only heard good things about his taijutsu-at least, the worst Ive ever heard is okay.  The tapes themselves *are* okay as a memory jogger, or training aid, as some have already said-in terms of quality, I think both his movement and instructions suffer since he does them himself in real time. Im not saying that this is always a bad thing-many instructional materials have the instructor performing movements while explaining them-but I think the quality of RVDs materials would probably have been enhanced by his doing the instructions as a voice-over, and concentrating on his movements for the taping, Both seem to suffer from his filming them the way he did, and ,the materials are notprobably not demonstrative of his skill level either.  and as much could be true for his de Cuerdas  materials as well..

The idea of attaining  skill of substance worthy of rank entirely from video instruction, is, of course, absurd and somewhat insulting....but I'm sure it serves some who for one reason or another lack the ability or desire to train properly, face-to-face with an instructor.



			
				Enson said:
			
		

> i have seen his add on every black belt magazine and was wondering what his skill level is and *if he is everything he claims to be?*




Again, I dont know anything about his skill level, or what he claims to be. However, I have heard from a few of those in the know in reference to his claims in reference to de Cuerdas that he is *not* all he claims to be, though I don't see how that matters.

I think it's probably more of a case of  something like what's happened to American Kenpo, or Modern Arnis, or even Kyokushin karate when their repsective founders died without leaving a clear-cut (or, in some cases, acceptable) successor-people jumped in to fill the void. There was no clear-cut successor to Gilbert Tenio, and some people jumped in, for whatever reason, to fill the void.

What do I know, though..


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## ToShinDoKa

On the comment as far as first person talking, I've seen it work rather well.  I think, though, I like the approach of Stephen K. Hayes, (not referring to his art in general, but his DvD material), because he doesn't directly address the audience, but addresses the students in the video.  It serves to allow them to practice it, and observe them after he's shown them, and lets him get feed back or correct the mistakes that us at home are probably doing likewise, with those on the video.

I own the entire RVD Black Belt home study course, and I personally do enjoy it.  It's very informative, and Shihan Van Donk's message is always positive and light in heart.  

As far as learning by DvD, I believe it can be an assistance, but not primary.  See, not all who use DvD CHOOSE to because they don't want to be with an instructor.  I travel 4 hours and 11 minutes a month to make sure I get live training, and our organization encourages it greatly.  Mr. Hayes provides as many opportunities possible to train, as does Mr. Van Donk.  I am still subscribed to Shihan RVD's catalog, and try and keep up with upcoming events.  Even with all the bad politics, I can't help but appreciate the knowledge and maturity of great teachers like him.

-Scott


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## midnightfox00

ToShinDoKa said:


> On the comment as far as first person talking, I've seen it work rather well. I think, though, I like the approach of Stephen K. Hayes, (not referring to his art in general, but his DvD material), because he doesn't directly address the audience, but addresses the students in the video. It serves to allow them to practice it, and observe them after he's shown them, and lets him get feed back or correct the mistakes that us at home are probably doing likewise, with those on the video.
> 
> I own the entire RVD Black Belt home study course, and I personally do enjoy it. It's very informative, and Shihan Van Donk's message is always positive and light in heart.
> 
> As far as learning by DvD, I believe it can be an assistance, but not primary. See, not all who use DvD CHOOSE to because they don't want to be with an instructor. I travel 4 hours and 11 minutes a month to make sure I get live training, and our organization encourages it greatly. Mr. Hayes provides as many opportunities possible to train, as does Mr. Van Donk. I am still subscribed to Shihan RVD's catalog, and try and keep up with upcoming events. Even with all the bad politics, I can't help but appreciate the knowledge and maturity of great teachers like him.
> 
> -Scott


 
Yes, I choose too...because my wife and children need me, before I need training.  In my opinion it is not a necessity...not THAT large of one, where I would have to completely and utterly inconvience myself and leave my family just for something that will only benefit myself.

In my personal opinion no one has really helped much on this site.  I do not quite understand how MOST of you can actually be martial artists...if in fact, that is what you are.  It seems that arrogance is some of your best qualities...everyone has to know everything...remembering what assuming does okay?


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## shesulsa

midnightfox00 said:


> Yes, I choose too...because my wife and children need me, before I need training.  In my opinion it is not a necessity...not THAT large of one, where I would have to completely and utterly inconvience myself and leave my family just for something that will only benefit myself.
> 
> In my personal opinion no one has really helped much on this site.  I do not quite understand how MOST of you can actually be martial artists...if in fact, that is what you are.  It seems that arrogance is some of your best qualities...everyone has to know everything...remembering what assuming does okay?



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## TheArtofDave

I was considering his videos just for reference but I'm not going to pay the hefty fee especially now since I know there is a school in my area where I can learn, and that is better than any video I can order.


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## cypher

I'm fortunate enough to be able to study with a small group (4) in a bujinkan dojo. I was considering getting the Ninjutsu Made Easy Series by Shihan Van Donk as a supplement. I've been training for a short period of time and am just learning how to move. I figured that those dvds would help as he breaks things down a bit more. 

I'm not interested in the blackbelt course, but would like any feedback on the other dvds I mentioned. Again, just as a supplement for the days I'm not training. Thoughts? Or should I not bother....


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## jks9199

cypher said:


> I'm fortunate enough to be able to study with a small group (4) in a bujinkan dojo. I was considering getting the Ninjutsu Made Easy Series by Shihan Van Donk as a supplement. I've been training for a short period of time and am just learning how to move. I figured that those dvds would help as he breaks things down a bit more.
> 
> I'm not interested in the blackbelt course, but would like any feedback on the other dvds I mentioned. Again, just as a supplement for the days I'm not training. Thoughts? Or should I not bother....


Note -- I don't train in BBT, nor have I seen the videos.  But I do know that they're not cheap.  I don't encourage my students to dig into something different on days when we don't train; I encourage them to practice, revisit, and study the basics along with the exercises we've done in class.  

I've had a long-time fascination with BBT/ninjutsu; one thing I've noticed in many posts blogs, and other comments from different sources is that very few people have their basics really mastered the way they should.  I know that many of my own students (again, NOT BBT) have the same problem:  They don't spend the time they need to on key things like stance drills, or basic punching and moving exercises.  

Just my two cents, and probably worth less... but I'd consider saving my money (maybe towards a visit to Japan, in BBT cases), and focusing on basics in my solo practice.


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## GBlues

Here is my question about Van Donk. When I went looking for a ninjutsu instructor, he was one that I was considering, as far as buying his learn at home course. However the bujinkan instructor I found when I brought the subject up told me and I quote, " I wish he would stop selling those. Sensei told him to stop, and he's still selling them?" So my question is.....Did Hatsuumi tell RVD to stop selling his videos? If so why? If not cool. If so, why aren't the Bujinkan guys making a big stink about this on the forum? If it is true, then how could you get rank from both RVD and Hatsuumi, if Hatsuumi doesn't want them being sold? THen after some answers I'll maybe have some further questions.
 Thank  you.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Well I have not heard that Sensei told him to stop.  That is new to me.  However, there are many things that I do not know.

I will say this though that in Budo Taijutsu you need a real live teacher in order to learn in properly.  DVD's & video plus books can be used in conjunction with a real teachr but you need that teacher.


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## Cryozombie

Brian R. VanCise said:


> I will say this though that in Budo Taijutsu you need a real live teacher in order to learn in properly.  DVD's & video plus books can be used in conjunction with a real teachr but you need that teacher.



I second this.  You hear me rant about DVD training on here a lot... but if you have a teacher and a group, DVDs can be good training aids.


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## Tsuki-Yomi

> I wish he would stop selling those. Sensei told him to stop, and he's still selling them?" So my question is.....Did Hatsuumi tell RVD to stop selling his videos? If so why? If not cool. If so, why aren't the Bujinkan guys making a big stink about this on the forum? If it is true, then how could you get rank from both RVD and Hatsuumi, if Hatsuumi doesn't want them being sold?


I would have to say it was a rumor.  I have known Shihan Richard and Linda since 2004 and have never heard one thing in regards to Soke telling them to quit selling the HSC.


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## GBlues

Hmmm......that's interesting. I'm gonna have to dig around a bit and see if I can find something out about this now. Very possible the buji instructor that I talked to may be a fraud. Interesting. Well, come to think of it, not really cause I'm doing To-Shindo so why do I care right? Ha....I am interested though. Anyways, good training everybody and have fun.


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## <_>

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Well I have not heard that Sensei told him to stop.  That is new to me.  However, there are many things that I do not know.
> 
> I will say this though that in Budo Taijutsu you need a real live teacher in order to learn in properly.  DVD's & video plus books can be used in conjunction with a real teachr but you need that teacher.



Agreed, as you advance so does the level of subtlety in technique and you can't get that from a vid. Every time we revisit a technique you end up picking up something you hadn't before.


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## Kreth

<_> said:


> Every time we revisit a technique you end up picking up something you hadn't before.


We? Your primary art is listed as "karate." :idunno:


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## <_>

Kreth said:


> We? Your primary art is listed as "karate." :idunno:




cross training


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## Tsuki-Yomi

> I'm gonna have to dig around a bit and see if I can find something out about this now.


You might be digging for a long while but if you find value in that good luck with your search.


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## GBlues

You might be digging for a long while but if you find value in that good luck with your search.
__________________
Unnatural naturalness 

Nah, I decided that I'm not that interested after all. I got too many other things going on in my life, to worry about something so trivial. Thanks for the good luck, always could use more of that.


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## rdonovan1

The one that Hatsumsi Sensei has told to stop is Stephen Hayes. George Ohashi was ordered on May 14, 2006 by Hatsumi to remove Stephen Hayes name from the board of recognized judans in the Bujinkan because of his behavior.

Hayes is no longer a recognized member of the Bujinkan by Hatsumi. This I found on Wikipedia.

I have to admit however that I have been looking at Hayes stuff and it does kind of look pretty interesting. I have studied all of the tapes from Robert Bussey and I do have the complete RVD black belt home study course leading up to Shodan which I have viewed in it's entirety at least twice now and I personally think that it is really good. 

There is a lot that both Bussey and RVD do tend to leave out, but they are still very good none the less and I would highly recommend them both. 

To me it really does not matter as to who is the better instructor or as to who is the worst. What really matters the most is if you are really learning the skills and as to whether those skills are recognized by Hatsumi.

That is the most important thing to remember here because in a real fight out on the street none of those teachers are going to be there to back you up. You are going to have to do it on your own and in a real fight you need to know when to respond with total and maximum force and when to just walk away that is the essence of true wisdom and skill.

If you can walk away from a fight then do so whenever possible. Do not train with the idea of being a bully as all that makes you look like is an arrogant, stupid, bully who has nothing better to do with his time than to pick on other people just to boost his own ego.

I am not saying that you should not fight, but rather that what is the most important is in knowing when and when not to fight and for what causes that you might fight for. If your cause is noble and just and is geared toward helping other people who are less fortunate than you, then your cause is most likely just. 

If your cause is to hurt people just for the fun of it or because you just like to fight, then your cause is not just. Anyone who fights just for the sake of fighting or to hurt people is psychologically a psychopath and is in need of severe psychological help from a licensed professional who can help you with those issues.

The true purpose of any martial art is not to be a bully, but to develop yourself mentally, physically and spiritually so that you can be the best that you can be in life.

Don't look at the martial arts as a way of fighting, but as a way of not fighting or as Bruce Lee once said 'It is the art of fighting without fighting'. 

Basically what that means is that if you are smarter and more mature mentally, emotionally, and spiritually than your oppponent then more than likely you do not need to fight because you will not need to put yourself into situations that you know are deliberately dangerous without good and just cause. 

I am not suggesting that anyone becomes a wimp at all. What I am saying is that if you really want to master yourself and the martial arts, then learn how to balance yourself and your life out first as the greatest enemy that you will ever face is yourself. Conquer yourself first, then worry about conquering other people and things and that is what Hatsumi sensei is really trying to teach first and foremost.


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## MikeyMac

I would agree that you should not train with the intention of fighting, but to learn how to avoid a fight. That said, I believe that it is vital to have an instructor in the room when you are training, as too many aspects of the martial arts defy video instruction.

 Let us consider the foundation for your martial art, your stances...if your stances are not done properly everything will be at least a little wrong top to bottom, and stances are a thing that comes with years of practice in front of a mirror, and in front of an instructor.

 Moving in and out of stances with fluid motion and power is another thing that I do not believe I could have grasped without my instructor watching me and correcting my mistakes. The subtle moves involved in keeping your hips in line, and staying balanced while moving in stances is not something that comes quickly, or easily for many.

 Lastly I believe a part of having self confidence when faced with defending your life, or the lives of your loved ones comes from experience in contact fighting.  Learning that getting hit in the nose hurts but only for a little while, that while a hit to the gut hurts it wont kill you...the realization that if set up in combination with movement and punches a front kick actually does floor an opponent...for me these are things I learned in the ring. This type of fighting can be done on your own I suppose if on a video course, but not safely. 

Most black belts I have know consider a white belt to be the most dangerous fighter in the room, for a general lack of control, and almost completely unpredictable actions when fighting...this is where supervision by an instructor saves people from broken bones...adding an element of control to the chaos of a new fighter.

 Take this how you will, I do not mean to insult instructors who sell video training courses, I consider them to be a valuable tool in learning a martial art. I do not however hold video training courses in very high regard as a stand alone tool for learning, the function of the sensei, sifu, master, whatever you call them in your art, cannot be replaced by a video course.


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## orang_baik

until page 4, does anyone here is truly student of Mr Van Donk ?


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## orang_baik

deleted**


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## Tsuki-Yomi

> until page 4, does anyone here is truly student of Mr Van Donk ?


I flew into San Fransisco last March to attend his annual 3 day Tai Kai.  Got the opportunity to meet and train with Shihan Dan Ordoins, Shihan Joel Everett, Shihan's Richard and Linda Vandonk and several other shidoshi from around the country.  They were all very helpful and made me feel more than welcome.  Despite what I read about Mr. Vandonk on various martial arts forums he is a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching him demonstrate techniques from the Ten Chi Jin.


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## ElfTengu

Tsuki-Yomi said:


> I flew into San Fransisco last March to attend his annual 3 day Tai Kai. Got the opportunity to meet and train with Shihan Dan Ordoins, Shihan Joel Everett, Shihan's Richard and Linda Vandonk and several other shidoshi from around the country. They were all very helpful and made me feel more than welcome. Despite what I read about Mr. Vandonk on various martial arts forums he is a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching him demonstrate techniques from the Ten Chi Jin.


 
Being nice is rule No.1 in the art of liberating people from the contents of their wallet!


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## Kurai

Tsuki-Yomi said:


> I flew into San Fransisco last March to attend his annual 3 day Tai Kai.  Got the opportunity to meet and train with Shihan Dan Ordoins, Shihan Joel Everett, Shihan's Richard and Linda Vandonk and several other shidoshi from around the country.  They were all very helpful and made me feel more than welcome.  Despite what I read about Mr. Vandonk on various martial arts forums he is a really nice guy, and I enjoyed watching him demonstrate techniques from the Ten Chi Jin.



I was at the event as well and share your opinions.


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