# Come see me get wopped upside my punkin' haid!



## Bill Mattocks

I'm sparring for the first time on Saturday, Jan 22nd at the D-Lux Charity Challenge 4, an open karate tournament in Macomb, MI.  I'll be sparring in the over-45 advanced belt men's division.  Never done this before, it might over quick for me!

http://www.greatlakeskaratecircuit.com/

But you're all welcome to come see me get smacked around a bit.  $6 for spectators at the door.


----------



## Dirty Dog

I presume there will be a YouTube posting, for those of us who are not close enough to attend?


----------



## seasoned

Bill Mattocks said:


> I'm sparring for the first time on Saturday, Jan 22nd at the D-Lux Charity Challenge 4, an open karate tournament in Macomb, MI. I'll be sparring in the over-45 advanced belt men's division. Never done this before, it might over quick for me!
> 
> http://www.greatlakeskaratecircuit.com/
> 
> But you're all welcome to come see me get smacked around a bit. $6 for spectators at the door.


Front kick low and deep,  when they drop their guard punch toward their face. If your sparring is anything like some of your posts here on MT, you will kick some major butt, good luck.


----------



## 72ronin

Good Luck Mr Mattocks 
:btg:


----------



## Blade96

You guys are brave. I'd be too scared to post myself doing something. I'm a big wuss.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Dirty Dog said:


> I presume there will be a YouTube posting, for those of us who are not close enough to attend?



Well...I have a video camera, and my wife will be there, but I don't know if she'll be able to make a video.  And I can't very well do it myself...hehehe.  I am told that one of my dojo mates is planning to show up and take some photos.  We'll see how they turn out.  I promise to post 'em if they exist.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

seasoned said:


> Front kick low and deep,  when they drop their guard punch toward their face. If your sparring is anything like some of your posts here on MT, you will kick some major butt, good luck.



Yeah, that's probably a good point - I *talk* a good fight!  We'll see, eh?  This is an open tournament, so I'll be facing guys from all kinds of styles.  With 2 points for head shots, I expect some high kickers, which I ain't.  But I will do my best.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Some clips from last year's event.  I have been looking them over, trying to get a feel for what to expect.  I can't say I'm seeing great karate here, but that's not to say I can do any better!

Some kids and adults sparring:






Escrima weapons kata?






Young adult black belts (lots of head kicking)






Interviews, flashy weapons and open-handed katas (with backflips!)






These guys fight on one leg. I can't believe this can't be defended against more easily.
















Seriously, 'Master' ???  I can see how the looping backfist over the top of the head gets two points, but in real fighting, that does nothing but get you clocked.  Or am I wrong about that?






Well, there's a lot more like this, mostly younger guys.  I don't know how the guys my age look, so that's a drawback.  But I have been getting some advice from my instructors.  I understand that they like to come at you as soon as the hajime is given, but they tend to come straight on; so circle and change the fightline.  Same if the front leg comes up; once that leg is in the air, they're not going to be able to turn, they can only hop and kick until they put it down again.  I've got to try to play to my strengths; I'm not fast, but I can see a kick coming and I naturally tend to get inside and try to jam it.

I'm told that in some open-style tournaments, the traditional karate guys tend not to do so well because a lot of the judges are tkd and tend to look for head shots and kicks; they don't do much punching in their MA, and so they sometimes don't 'see' punches that land to the body which would otherwise be a point.

I'm also told that our dojo has traditionally had a lot of disqualifications from open tournaments because we train sparring with rather solid hits; these are not allowed in this kind of match.  So we tend to punch and kick hard enough to plant people on their keisters and get DQ'd even though it was a nice clean hit and good karate.  I'm not claiming to be able to do this, but this is what I'm hearing from others in my dojo.

Open to thoughts, opinions, etc!


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Blade96 said:


> You guys are brave. I'd be too scared to post myself doing something. I'm a big wuss.



If you happen to see a video of me sparring, it will most likely be a short clip of me getting hit and falling down clumsily.  I don't mind.  It's all in the name of fun.  If I suck  bad, I'll just try to get better.


----------



## WC_lun

Good luck, have fun, and keep your hands up!


----------



## hilly1981

Good Luck and have fun!


----------



## jks9199

Remember that tournament fighting is a game.  What is your goal in doing this?  To see how you do under a different sort of pressure?  Or to win a trophy?  If the trophy is your goal... you need to learn the rules to the game.  As an extreme example, imagine the poor confused Brit football team that shows up to play an NFL football team...  If they don't know the rules, even though the name is the same, they've lost before they've begun.

But if your goal is to try and see what you can do under a different pressure against other opponents... have fun!  In that case, "winning" means doing your lessons against an unfamiliar opponent.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

jks9199 said:


> Remember that tournament fighting is a game.  What is your goal in doing this?  To see how you do under a different sort of pressure?  Or to win a trophy?  If the trophy is your goal... you need to learn the rules to the game.  As an extreme example, imagine the poor confused Brit football team that shows up to play an NFL football team...  If they don't know the rules, even though the name is the same, they've lost before they've begun.
> 
> But if your goal is to try and see what you can do under a different pressure against other opponents... have fun!  In that case, "winning" means doing your lessons against an unfamiliar opponent.



Yeah, not interested in a trophy.  I'm preparing for my 50th birthday present to myself, which is to compete at the IHOF Tournament in Chattanooga, TN in July.  Since I've never sparred before, I figured I better try it out a bit.  I don't know where I stand in terms of my sparring ability; just want to find out.  Test myself against others of my age and belt level.  And knock some heads together if I can (just kidding)...have fun.


----------



## Bruno@MT

How did it turn out?


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Bruno@MT said:


> How did it turn out?



It's this coming Saturday, the 22nd.  I will of course keep everyone informed, presuming I can still type when I'm done getting thumped.

They just got around to posting the rules:





Definitely favors the high-kickers such as the TKD and TSD guys.  I guess it's going to be a lot of headhunters.  Unless they're also fast, though, I may be able to work my strategy of stepping in and jamming the kick.  Some drawbacks are that my followup often has a backfist to the face; not allowed for underbelts in this tournament, so I'll have to restrain myself; also once I've jammed a kick, I like to hurl my opponent to the ground, which it looks like is also forbidden.  Geez.  I hope I can have any fun at all!


----------



## stickarts

good luck!!


----------



## Bruno@MT

Ah ok.
Well toitoi and break a leg  as they say.
Good luck.


----------



## jks9199

Bill Mattocks said:


> Definitely favors the high-kickers such as the TKD and TSD guys.  I guess it's going to be a lot of headhunters.  Unless they're also fast, though, I may be able to work my strategy of stepping in and jamming the kick.  Some drawbacks are that my followup often has a backfist to the face; not allowed for underbelts in this tournament, so I'll have to restrain myself; also once I've jammed a kick, I like to hurl my opponent to the ground, which it looks like is also forbidden.  Geez.  I hope I can have any fun at all!



While I like the sportsmanship rules -- I hate the silliness about 2 points for kicks to the head.  Let anything that scores legally be one point.  Keep things simple, and stop rewarding flailing high kicks that really have little to do with functional fighting.


----------



## Yondanchris

Have a fun and safe time at the tourney!


----------



## Yondanchris

jks9199 said:


> while i like the sportsmanship rules -- i hate the silliness about 2 points for kicks to the head.  Let anything that scores legally be one point.  Keep things simple, and stop rewarding flailing high kicks that really have little to do with functional fighting.




amen!!


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Well, things didn't work out exactly as I had hoped.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





41 seconds of ignominious fail.

However, I'm not too proud to share my humiliation.  Enjoy!


----------



## jks9199

You did fine.  You ran into someone more familiar with the game than you, and you were tentative about acting when you decided to act.  Typical "rookie" tournament stuff...

What'd your instructors or coaches have to say?


----------



## Bill Mattocks

jks9199 said:


> You did fine.  You ran into someone more familiar with the game than you, and you were tentative about acting when you decided to act.  Typical "rookie" tournament stuff...
> 
> What'd your instructors or coaches have to say?



Thanks for the kind words.  I went on my own; this was not a dojo event.  However, I was gratified to find that several of my dojomates showed up on their own time to watch me compete and to cheer me on.  My wife took the video; one of my dojo mates, a young black belt who also competed (and did better than I did) looked at the video and said the same thing you just did.  He said I kept my hands up, stayed in his face, made a couple of mistakes in footwork (which my opponent didn't capitalize on, which only shows he's not all that either, just better than me), and if I had been a fraction faster on the punches, I'd have had the points myself.  I felt the same; I often hit my opponent, but a fraction of a second after he landed a punch or a kick.

In the way of making me feel better about myself, the guy I sparred was the first of the match for our age group (san-kyu or higher, non blackbelt, age 45+); he won all his fights and took first place.  So he didn't just beat me, he beat everyone else too.  My luck to get him right out of the gate.

I will do this again until I can win.

I'll be showing the video to my sensei and asking his advice as well.  Thanks for your insight!


----------



## Steve

I don't really know what the rules are or anything like that, but you didn't look outclassed.  You're pretty spry for a 45+ non blackbelt.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

stevebjj said:


> I don't really know what the rules are or anything like that, but you didn't look outclassed.  You're pretty spry for a 45+ non blackbelt.



Thanks!  I'll be 50 in July, actually.

The rules are kind of weird.  I'm starting to 'get it'.  It's like 'tag'.  That is, you score a point with any touch to a permitted area like torso or head.  Any kind of touch.  Doesn't have to be good karate.  The guy I was sparring was freaking me out; he kept 'touching' me with the lightest possible probing kick to the midsection; I hardly felt it.  But that's a point.  The only time the match got rough was when I landed a solid punch to his midsection a split-second after he put a foot on me and got the point.  He responded by punching me square in the face, splitting my lip.  Technically, that's a disqualification for him; but the judge didn't see it, and I wasn't going to dispute it.  He beat me fair and square.  Next time, I'll beat him.


----------



## Steve

If I can keep my back in good shape and train for it, I'd love to go compete in the Pan Ams down in California.  It's an international event and I could compete at my belt level (purple) and also at my age level.    Currently, when I compete, I typically roll with kids half my age because the local tournaments don't have enough competitors to split out by age.


----------



## 72ronin

Hey, congratulations.
Win/lose, it matters not. Participating = win mate  

:high5:


----------



## Big Don

Blade96 said:


> You guys are brave. I'd be too scared to post myself doing something. I'm a big wuss.


Me too


----------



## Yondanchris

Thanks for sharing, you kept your head up and your guard (for the most part). Just keep it up, keep competing and you will learn the proverbal "tricks of the trade". I agree with others that stances where an issue...but then again I look at the whole thing [point sparring] and realize how much it marginalizes good technique and effort. A lot of my students will not point spar because they are so limited on technique and strike zones! 

Just my humble yet still ignorant .02 cents, 

Chris


----------



## Big Don

You did just fine, Bill.


----------



## seasoned

Bill Mattocks said:


> Some clips from last year's event. I have been looking them over, trying to get a feel for what to expect. I can't say I'm seeing great karate here, but that's not to say I can do any better!
> 
> Some kids and adults sparring:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Escrima weapons kata?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Young adult black belts (lots of head kicking)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interviews, flashy weapons and open-handed katas (with backflips!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These guys fight on one leg. I can't believe this can't be defended against more easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, 'Master' ??? I can see how the looping backfist over the top of the head gets two points, but in real fighting, that does nothing but get you clocked. Or am I wrong about that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there's a lot more like this, mostly younger guys. I don't know how the guys my age look, so that's a drawback. But I have been getting some advice from my instructors. *I understand that they like to come at you as soon as the hajime is given, but they tend to come straight on; so circle and change the fightline. Same if the front leg comes up;* once that leg is in the air, they're not going to be able to turn, they can only hop and kick until they put it down again. I've got to try to play to my strengths; I'm not fast, but I can see a kick coming and I naturally tend to get inside and try to jam it.
> 
> I'm told that in some open-style tournaments, the traditional karate guys tend not to do so well because a lot of the judges are tkd and tend to look for head shots and kicks; they don't do much punching in their MA, and so they sometimes don't 'see' punches that land to the body which would otherwise be a point.
> 
> I'm also told that our dojo has traditionally had a lot of disqualifications from open tournaments because we train sparring with rather solid hits; these are not allowed in this kind of match. So we tend to punch and kick hard enough to plant people on their keisters and get DQ'd even though it was a nice clean hit and good karate. I'm not claiming to be able to do this, but this is what I'm hearing from others in my dojo.
> 
> Open to thoughts, opinions, etc!


 
*"I understand that they like to come at you as soon as the hajime is given, but they tend to come straight on; so circle and change the fightline. Same if the front leg comes up;"*

This *was* part of your game plan, which showed in the clip. Your instructors gave you good advice. It also was a very strong back fist I saw you throw early on in the clip. Good thing he blocked it.  All in all, good job, Bill.


----------



## Yoshin9

I watched some of the videos and it all seems to be a game of tag, as others pointed out the strikes lack power and proper positioning.

What? No shots to the leg? Is this boxing? lol.


----------



## Bill Mattocks

Yoshin9 said:


> I watched some of the videos and it all seems to be a game of tag, as others pointed out the strikes lack power and proper positioning.
> 
> What? No shots to the leg? Is this boxing? lol.



That is correct.  No points for leg shots, groin is out of bounds, no shots to the back.  Face is not allowed in underbelts (but I still got pasted in the mouth, no call by the ref).  I posted an image above, I think, showing the legal areas for contact.

What I did not realize; should have, but didn't; was that 'touch' is really all that is required for a point.  And many get that and take advantage of it - it's tag.  Reach out and touch, that's a point.  My counterstrikes were slow; the guy had already scored on me.  I was looking for sparring; a fight.  I was trying to pick my moment for an effective blow.  No, that's the wrong idea with this kind of competition.  Touch 'em first.  That's the whole thing.


----------



## jks9199

The rules vary with the event and the refs...  If I were judging, I wouldn't have called a few of his shots points.  He had no power and couldn't have generated power with them if he carried a diesel generator and a HUMVEE.

Many years back, I competed in a tournament, and the guy I was fighting scored with some flippy-dippy leap in "punch-like motion" with no protection or safety... or power.  He get's the point, and I decide he ain't going to get another like that.  He leaps again, I step in and punch, knocking him out of the air.  He still got the point 'cause his flippy crap got there first...

When I (rarely) do a point event like this, I consider it a "win" if I do the techniques I'm practicing under the pressure.  I don't care if the judge gives me the point or not... I just want to work my lesson under the different sort of pressure.


----------

