# Kenpo Techniques Question



## Sapper6 (Feb 19, 2004)

i am not an EPAK practitioner first off but the system does interest me.  i recently checked out Larry Tatum's website (nice site).  one thing that caught my attention is the section of his website called Technique of the Week.  very cool how he further explains into more detail certain aspects of such techniques and how, you, the student can further improve...yada, yada, yada.

i got 2 questions for you guys:

1. does this compromise the EPAK system by allowing idiots of the street to view that part of the website and then later teach that stuff, calling it their "own" material they invented...making $$ off of something they have no understanding of?

2. my knowledge & understanding of Parker Kenpo is very limited.  i learned most of what i know of Kenpo from The Perfect Weapon w/ Speakman (very nice flick).  the techniques Mr. Tatum performs are quite impressive & seem rather effective.  my question is this:  why does it appear as though Mr. Tatum is "slapping himself" during technique execution.  is this taught throughout EPAK or is it just something Mr. Tatum added on his own to add sound effects to the clips?

i thank you all in advance for your answers in helping me further understand this fascinating system of the martial arts. :asian: 

sapper6


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## Seig (Feb 19, 2004)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> i am not an EPAK practitioner first off but the system does interest me. i recently checked out Larry Tatum's website (nice site). one thing that caught my attention is the section of his website called Technique of the Week. very cool how he further explains into more detail certain aspects of such techniques and how, you, the student can further improve...yada, yada, yada.
> 
> i got 2 questions for you guys:
> 
> ...


Sapper,
Welcome to Martial Talk.  You have asked a couple of good questions.  Some of them have been discussed and others beaten to death.  But these are also valid points that can and should be discussed again.  I am sure some of our resident seniors will chime in.  To answer your first question in a succint manner; yes, people will steal it.  However, it will become evident quickly they have no idea what they are blathering about.  This does not compromise our system.  It does compromise the integrity of instructors in the eyes of the public though.  The crux of the situation can be summed up by a quote from my instructor, "Time will either promote or expose you."
As to your second question, Mr. Tatum does slap himself, not for sound effects.  Most Kenpo practitioners do it to some degree, some understand why and what they are doing, others are just aping.  This gets into a long and sophisticated topic, that I do not feel fully qulaified to explain.
I hope this helped, I know others will comment.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 20, 2004)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> i am not an EPAK practitioner first off but the system does interest me.  i recently checked out Larry Tatum's website (nice site).  one thing that caught my attention is the section of his website called Technique of the Week.  very cool how he further explains into more detail certain aspects of such techniques and how, you, the student can further improve...yada, yada, yada.
> 
> i got 2 questions for you guys:
> 
> ...


I won't presume to know or explain why mr. Tatum slaps; however, I can explain what I sort of understand about the concept. Lets say he hits you with the right hand and slaps with the left. This means one hand is at the apex of the circle at the target, and the other at the apex of the circle on the return motion. These return motion points are fixed so he always has the same type of strike in store for his oponent and they are timed just perfectly left right left right. Thats my two cents, and now here is Robert to tell you I'm full of it...
Sean


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## Les (Feb 20, 2004)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> the section of his website called Technique of the Week....  does this compromise the EPAK system by allowing idiots of the street to view that part of the website and then later teach that stuff, calling it their "own" material they invented...making $$ off of something they have no understanding of?
> 
> sapper6


This is a very good point, but the answer is no AND yes.

*No because......* 
Learning the physical moves of a Kenpo technique will never really teach you how to use it effectively.

Without the underlying knowledge of the principles of each move within the technique one will never be able to build an effective technique.

These principles are taught to the student over a period of time in their classes, and quite a lot of work goes into them. You don't get them in a pack of accessories that comes with the technique.

*Yes because......* 
When someone with no Kenpo experience is told "What I'm teaching you here is Kenpo, the most complete self defence system created" they have no point of reference to compare it with. So if they beleive that they pay their dollars and get ripped off.

We have one of those here in England, and he makes a nice living from it.

Experienced Kenpo practitioners can usually tell when someone has learnt their Kenpo from a book or a video, but the unexperienced have no chance. 

Les


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## Sapper6 (Feb 21, 2004)

Les said:
			
		

> *Yes because......*
> When someone with no Kenpo experience is told "What I'm teaching you here is Kenpo, the most complete self defence system created" they have no point of reference to compare it with. So if they beleive that they pay their dollars and get ripped off.
> 
> We have one of those here in England, and he makes a nice living from it.
> ...



i totally agree.  i also completely agree with the quote "time will either promote or expose you", however, if average Joe McWhitebelt comes in off the street, signs up for lessons at a studio that is mocking the techniques of Kenpo, that student has no idea if it is "true" kenpo or not.  my point being, he takes the classes from this school, all the while believing he is learning a system to defend his/herself with.  what if the student actually has to defend himself someday & succombs to a serious beating.  the student will surely lose faith in what "he" believes is Kenpo Karate.  again, the student will not know the difference.  on the same token, Mr. Tatum & the rest of the Kenpo community should not feel liable for this stuff taking place, it's just something to think about.

quote from above post:
"This does not compromise our system. It does compromise the integrity of instructors in the eyes of the public though."

it doesnt if the instructor doing this is in a location where Kenpo schools do not exist...and how much does the general really know of Kenpo anyway.  sure, real Kenpoists will surely be able to distinguish real from fake, but we're talking about persons with NO prior knowledge of the system.

and to again address the "slapping"...i really dont understand the "circle/apex" stuff mentioned.  could anybody further elaborate on this?


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## Kenpomachine (Feb 22, 2004)

Sapper6 said:
			
		

> however, if average Joe McWhitebelt comes in off the street, signs up for lessons at a studio that is mocking the techniques of Kenpo, that student has no idea if it is "true" kenpo or not.  my point being, he takes the classes from this school, all the while believing he is learning a system to defend his/herself with.  what if the student actually has to defend himself someday & succombs to a serious beating.  the student will surely lose faith in what "he" believes is Kenpo Karate.  again, the student will not know the difference.



Being able to defend oneself involves more variables than just the stuff known. It also has a little to do with your mind set and eagerness to defend yourself. You may be an awesome kenpo technician, but if you hadn't train for the automatic response, then you're up to being beaten the same way as if you knew nothing. I'm sure all of you know of a kenpo brown/black belt who may not be able to defend himself in a real situation...

Thinking a bit more about the subject, those black belts I know of haven't the best of instructors, even though those instructors are good kenpoists themselves. So it may be resumed, if your instructor doesn't know how to convey the information, you can be up to have a problem in a real situation.


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## rmcrobertson (Feb 22, 2004)

Reasons for the, "slapping," include rebounding to cut down on the time it takes to deliver the next strike, and accelerating off one's own body.

It can fairly-easily be practiced by a) doing a set of double round-house kicks at different heights, and, "bouncing," one's foot off the floor after the first kick, to get the second off faster; b) waiting till, "Leaping Crane," to start considering this, or--even better--till, "Gathering Clouds."

Another good thing to look at is the funeral scene in, "Once Were Warriors."

On other matters--assuming that it was a real question--the nice thing about martial arts is that they're seldom like handing some fool a gun. If you try the stuff shown in the Tips without a LOT of practice and knowledge (unless, of course, you just walk up and start bullying someone, in which case anything will work if they're bullyable at all), you'll get your butt served.

Another nice thing is that very, very often--not always, but very often--the long process of training, necessary to becoming effective, actually has a civilizing effect on people.

One remark I liked from one of the instructors in the Marine Corps fairly-new martial arts program was something to the effect of, "When one of our trained Marines walks into a room, everybody should immediately feel a little safer."


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## allen (Feb 23, 2004)

Slapping helps me with my timing and checks while practising technique.  It is a natural thing that I don't even think about.   For example, if I launch a quick ridge hand with my right hand, I might slap the inside of my right shoulder with my left hand with unbelievavle timing while pivoting into a forward bow simutaneously as my ridge hand reaches the apex or target and quickly bounce of that with a left inward handsword to your throat while my right hand goes back and slaps my ribs or checks my ribs and pivoting back to a neuatral bow.  

Some of the slaps you see Mr. Tatum doing are body checks on the other guy.  Slapping will also help you to stop your weapon just before hitting your training partner.  At least, I use it for that.

Mr. Tatum uses slaps and no one can argue that he doesn't have unbelieavble speed.  Some people call this the "slap art".

Also, it would be kinda hard for someone to fake teaching Kenpo.  The internet is everywhere now days.  And in this art, fakes get exposed.

allen


"Admit nothing, Deny everything and make counter accusations."


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