# Modern Arnis as a complete system.



## James Miller (Feb 14, 2010)

How many people teach Modern Arnis as a complete system versus as an ad on?


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 14, 2010)

James Miller said:


> How many people teach Modern Arnis as a complete system versus as an ad on?


 

James,

I teach Modern Arnis as a complete system. I started in Modern Arnis and stil train and teach in it today. 

I did do some training in Balintawak and I also teach that FMA style as well.


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## stickarts (Feb 15, 2010)

I teach it as a complete system.


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## ap Oweyn (Feb 15, 2010)

How would you teach Modern Arnis as an add on?  I could see teaching some sinawali drills as an add on.  Or some knife defenses.  Or whatever.  (Though, in my experience, those people who teach material from FMA as an add on very often _learned_ the material as an add on as well.)

Seems to me you wouldn't BE teaching Modern Arnis if you were just introducing some material as an add on.  You'd be teaching taekwondo (for example) with a couple of stick drills.


Stuart


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## Brian Jones (Feb 15, 2010)

I think the idea goes back to how Prof. Presas marketed Modern Arnis when he began to teach Seminars in the US.  It was the "Art within Your Art".  I believe what he meant by that is you didn't need to relearn or abandon what you knew to do  Modern Arnis. One could learn it from the foundation of their arts. Unfortunatly this trasnalted to some as Modern Arnis is an "add on art". Nothing wrong with that, but as we know Modern Arnis can stand as an art all by itself.


Brian Jones


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## James Miller (Feb 18, 2010)

ap Oweyn said:


> How would you teach Modern Arnis as an add on?  I could see teaching some sinawali drills as an add on.  Or some knife defenses.  Or whatever.  (Though, in my experience, those people who teach material from FMA as an add on very often _learned_ the material as an add on as well.)
> 
> Seems to me you wouldn't BE teaching Modern Arnis if you were just introducing some material as an add on.  You'd be teaching taekwondo (for example) with a couple of stick drills.
> 
> ...


It is common for people to use their primary art as a base and then ad sinawalis, disarms, etc. As it was already stated, Prof would teach it as *the art within your art*.


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## James Miller (Feb 18, 2010)

BTW, I'm not passing judgment, I'm just curious.


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## MJS (Feb 18, 2010)

I teach it as a seperate art.  There are times when I'll teach something from MA in a Kenpo class, but I make sure that everyone knows that what I'm teaching is Arnis, not Kenpo.


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## ap Oweyn (Feb 18, 2010)

James Miller said:


> It is common for people to use their primary art as a base and then ad sinawalis, disarms, etc. As it was already stated, Prof would teach it as *the art within your art*.


 
I'm not entirely sure I get that phrase.  If you're attaching some sinawali and disarms to, for example, taekwondo, then there's an acknowledgment that those things were, in fact, NOT within your art.  Nor are you teaching Modern Arnis, to my mind, as that suggests to me a larger context in which the fundamentals of footwork, angling, and all those other primary principles are taught.  And if you're doing all that, regardless of whether you're doing it in conjunction with another style, then I wouldn't view that as an add-on.  I'd view it as teaching the complete style concurrently with teaching something else.

But I suspect this is mostly a question of semantics.  I'm not belted in Modern Arnis.  My ranking is in Doce Pares.  So I can't say I teach Modern Arnis at all.  That said, when I teach FMA, I'm teaching it as a complete art.  Not as an add-on to something else. 


Stuart


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## Mark Lynn (Feb 20, 2010)

ap Oweyn said:


> I'm not entirely sure I get that phrase.  If you're attaching some sinawali and disarms to, for example, taekwondo, then there's an acknowledgment that those things were, in fact, NOT within your art.  Nor are you teaching Modern Arnis, to my mind, as that suggests to me a larger context in which the fundamentals of footwork, angling, and all those other primary principles are taught.  And if you're doing all that, regardless of whether you're doing it in conjunction with another style, then I wouldn't view that as an add-on.  I'd view it as teaching the complete style concurrently with teaching something else.
> 
> But I suspect this is mostly a question of semantics.  I'm not belted in Modern Arnis.  My ranking is in Doce Pares.  So I can't say I teach Modern Arnis at all.  That said, when I teach FMA, I'm teaching it as a complete art.  Not as an add-on to something else.
> 
> ...



Stuart

I teach an American Karate/TKD program and I also teach a blend of Modern Arnis and Kombatan Arnis as a separate program at a rec center.

In regards to the "art within your art" phrase I believe it is a concept that the movements and principles are found in your art and Modern Arnis (and all other arts for that matter) you just learn to apply them differently.  GM Remy used the phrase as not only a teaching tool "you know this already" but as a way to spread Modern Arnis as a marketing tool.

For instance I was working last week with an adult beginner student in the ATKD class.  We were going up and down the floor doing downward blocks.  I was thrusting a padded stcik at his mid section and he was blocking it.  After making sure he had the gross motor movements down I decided to show him an application or tow so he could understand the technique better.  So I showed a disarm against the thrust and a defense against a hand grab all using the same motion of a downward block.  Now the downward block against a thrust  (punch or kick) was inspired by the TKD/karate as well as the defense against a hand grab.  The disarm was inspired by my FMA background, but I wasn't really teaching him Modern Arnis at the time.  The motions were all pretty much the same just coming at it from a different view point.  GM Remy would draw on these same kind of techniques to teach his system of Modern Arnis making the point that they were already in a person's base art.

Modern Arnis is full of locks and such that the motions are found in the ATKD method I teach, and yet they are seen or taught as blocks.  However you can see the same concepts/principles applied by the people who teach bunkais to the karate katas as well. 

What I am getting at is motion is motion, it just depends on what outcome you want. Many arts have similar motions so Modern Arnis was taught as the "Art within your Art"

Mark


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## ap Oweyn (Feb 20, 2010)

Ah, I gotcha.  Thanks for the example.

I came from taekwondo (5 years' worth) to FMA myself.  So I can certainly see how the principles of one can be found in the other even though, superficially, they're quite different.

I regard FMA as my "base style" at this point.  So, if I'm teaching, it's basically always FMA.  Though I do, as I said, incorporate things from other sources.  So I guess they're the add on.  



Stuart


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## Mark Lynn (Feb 24, 2010)

ap Oweyn said:


> Ah, I gotcha.  Thanks for the example.
> 
> I came from taekwondo (5 years' worth) to FMA myself.  So I can certainly see how the principles of one can be found in the other even though, superficially, they're quite different.
> 
> ...



Stuart

If the truth be known my base style is much more FMA orientated, even the basic blocks of the TKD system I teach I think more of as disarms or movements for locks.  Floor kicking makes me think of silat foot traps and take downs. The take downs I do teach are heavily influenced from my FMA training.

In fact that is some of the real fun now is seeing things in a completely different manner.

Glad to be of help.
Mark


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## geezer (Mar 7, 2010)

ap Oweyn said:


> I'm not belted in Modern Arnis.  My ranking is in Doce Pares.  So *I can't say I teach Modern Arnis at all.*  That said, when I teach FMA, I'm teaching it as a complete art.  Not as an add-on to something else. --Stuart



Aha..."not belted in Modern Arnis..." So really, you can't speak directly to the OP. In fact you are just spouting off, Stuart! That's my specialty too... spouting-off, that is. Anyway, you make a really good point, which is that the question posed in the OP is really relevant to _FMA instruction in general._ With that in mind, I'm re-posting essentially the same question in the "General FMA" department. Hope you will weigh in there too.


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## Stan (Mar 9, 2010)

I consider Modern Arnis my first art, but now I have been training in Aikido long enough that I would say it has had an equal influence on me.  I try to keep both arts separate, though if one saw me move while doing either, I would think the other art's influence would show.

I think it was much more common (and maybe still is) for people who do Modern Arnis and some other art to also do a relatively hard striking art.  I have never had any form of Karate or Tae Kwon Do, nor are learning them high on my list (if I chose to branch into a striking art, it would be traditional English pugilism or Wing Chun).  It's interesting reading about the different applications of blocks, for example.  I would say I have the inverse experience, given the arts I study.  With Modern Arnis and Aikido, rather than the movements being similar but the applications or "finishes" being different, very similar techniques (center lock/nikkyo, diving throw/sayu nage, mobility throw/kaiten nage, empty hand vs weapon disarms) are used, but are approached from very different hand/foot/body work and different energy.  

Thus, when doing each art, I strive to practice it in the spirit of that art.  I will use the center lock differently in Arnis than I will in Aikido, even though it's the exact same lock.

In a self-defense situation, of course, the distinction is irrelevant.  But I believe muddling different arts in daily practice as a rule only dilutes both.


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## Dan Anderson (Mar 15, 2010)

I teach MA as its own entity. I have a very specific curriculum for MA.

MA and the study of other arts has impacted my karate tremendously and vice versa.  It was MA that really opened up the door to how to apply some of the principles of other arts such as aikido, tai chi and bagua.  After 30 years what I _do_ is not necessarily what I teach to my students.  Too many 'Dan-isms' in there and I keep changing what I do too fast for the students to keep up without gong into complete confusion/overwhelm.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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