# Beijing or not Beijing That might be the question.



## Xue Sheng (Aug 16, 2006)

I debated with myself for a while on posting any of this because it seems to border on violating my view on divulging too much information on a network, kinda sorta, for security proposes (forgive me I was in physical security for many years and now in PC security) 

I put this here because I do not what someone that is a non-member looking at it. If the moderators feel it should be moved then by all means do so, unless you plan on moving it to a more public area then I request you delete it. 

There is a minor quandary that is on the horizon, minor because it is not pending and only a possibility at this point

There is a possibility of moving to Beijing for a couple of years a couple if years from now. 

Issues

Cons: 

 My parents, although fairly healthy, are both in their 70s
 My daughter would be pulled out of school here to go to school there only to be pulled out to come back here about 2 years later.
 My current job is a government one with a retirement plan attached. I could likely take a 2 year break and return, but that slaps on 2 years more that I need to work for said government before I retire.
 No guarantee of rehire, but it is very likely, but equally as likely at a different department
 My wife would have to close her practice, part of this depends on the patient load she has in X number of years
 Upon return to the US my wife may have to go through the whole building her practice thing again. 
 The current political issues with the US and the rest of the World, I am not so much worried about me here but my daughter
 Driving in Beijing is absolutely insane as is riding a bike.
 Beijing is much polluted
 I currently do not speak the language well enough to survive on my own. 
 I stand out like a sore thumb, its the hair color I tells ya the hair color. 
 No Simpsons (Sorry I just couldnt resist) 

Pros:

 Salary, potentially would be the same or better there and currently the cost of living is 1/8 of the US
 Very likely any company I work for would give me a car and a place to live at no cost to me, possibly also pay for gas for the car. 
 My wife could easily get a job with a pharmaceutical company due to her medical background (in China she is a Doctor, OMD) and because she is bilingual 
 I would be able improve my Mandarin immensely
 My daughter would very likely be fluent in 2 languages upon return to the US
 I would be able to train Chen Style Tai Chi daily. Could also possibly try Yiquan, it has interested me ever since my sister-in-law sent me a VCD by accident; she misunderstood me when I said Xingyi.
 Low crime rate
 Low auto accident rate
 GREAT Food

With all this being said it may not ever end up happening. It still all depends on a lot of other things, so this may not even be an issue at all. 

Thought, opinions appreciated.


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## Flatlander (Aug 16, 2006)

I guess it all depends upon your sense of adventure.  Personally, I would not enjoy leaving my friends and family behind for such a long period of time.  

Beyond that, the way I read the pro's and con's, you would be doing yourself a financial disservice, insofar as the pay for you wouldn't be significantly better, and your wife would be 2 years behind on building her practice.  Add to that the upheaval and job uncertainty upon your return, and I'm having a difficult time understanding why this would be a good thing.  However, I'm not very adventurous.


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## SFC JeffJ (Aug 16, 2006)

It'd be hard to say not to that.  As far as your daughter is concerned, it'd really broaden her horizens I'd think.  Job wise, it's a tough one.  The food would get me though.

Jeff

Also, I'm sure we'd be able to hear your rants from all the way over there.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 16, 2006)

That kind of experience, for you and your family, is worth more then any dollar amount, IMHO.  

All you need is a good plan.  If you think about it, a couple of years is the perfect amount of time to get things in order so you can do this sort of thing.  Pay off your debts, Build up a savings account, Start learning more Mandarin, Take care of other business interests, etc.  With a good plan, you could make it incredibly easy to live over there and to return.

The bottom line is this...money is only a fictional number in your bank account and it exists only because people believe that it exists.  Going and living in China and learning another language is real...it is hands on...that is real LIFE.

upnorthkyosa

ps - My family is planning to do something very similar in the next few years...and I am all for it!


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Flatlander said:
			
		

> I guess it all depends upon your sense of adventure. Personally, I would not enjoy leaving my friends and family behind for such a long period of time.
> 
> Beyond that, the way I read the pro's and con's, you would be doing yourself a financial disservice, insofar as the pay for you wouldn't be significantly better, and your wife would be 2 years behind on building her practice. Add to that the upheaval and job uncertainty upon your return, and I'm having a difficult time understanding why this would be a good thing. However, I'm not very adventurous.


 
All good points

My wife is from Beijing is why we were discussing it, actually she brought it up.

Financially it is better. If it is the same pay, I go there and have virtually no expenses and the cost of living is lower, but it could be much greater pay as well. Ad from her POV financially it may be a rather great gain and still virtually no expenses beyond food. 

It is very dependant on her practice. After 5 years if she does not have the average number of patients per day she set as a goal we have to either relocate her practice or there is the Beijing possibility as well as a few other options. She also teaches Mandarin at a local college. 

However I would have a big problem with the leaving family bit, but she has all of her family there. 

And of course our daughter is of great concern in this as well.

Thanks


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

JeffJ said:
			
		

> It'd be hard to say not to that. As far as your daughter is concerned, it'd really broaden her horizens I'd think. Job wise, it's a tough one. The food would get me though.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Also, I'm sure we'd be able to hear your rants from all the way over there.


 
Thanks

Like I said it is just a possibility right now and I keep getting hung up on the family stuff, but who knows, time will tell I guess


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> That kind of experience, for you and your family, is worth more then any dollar amount, IMHO.
> 
> All you need is a good plan. If you think about it, a couple of years is the perfect amount of time to get things in order so you can do this sort of thing. Pay off your debts, Build up a savings account, Start learning more Mandarin, Take care of other business interests, etc. With a good plan, you could make it incredibly easy to live over there and to return.
> 
> ...


 
What debt, my wife is Chinese, and they hate debt. 

Very good points and that is part of what I am thinking about.

It is the family thing that is the real hold up here but it is, as I said, just a possibiliy right now

Thanks


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

I'd always rather regret the things I did do in life, than those I didn't. With that in mind, the experience for your family and yourself will be incredible. Your friends will always be your friends, your family too. There are NO guarantees in life, and as a result, when we're presented with opportunities such as these, we grab them by the fuzzy bits and swing them round for all we're worth. 

At the end of the day, when you're on your death bed, you won't remember those extra dollars you would have made, or the extra years you worked in your govt job, it'll be the experiences you shared with your immediate family. What you earn, or do, what car you drive, mobile phone you have is ultimately immaterial in the grand scheme of things. As you've posted this looking for opinions, mine would be to do it. Do it yesterday.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 17, 2006)

Another good rant, dude (sorry, couldn't resist).

My wife occasionally suggests we pick up and go somewhere else for a while.  It's an interesting thought.  I am very happy where I am for many reasons so I've probably been a bit less interested in it than she is.  But it is good to consider it and you bringing it up is good for me to see.  Thanks.


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

We're looking to move to NZ. The difference with us is that we're looking to do it permanently. I think it's good for the soul. Travel. Change (qualified by it being for the better), self betterment. I also happen to think it's in human nature to want to go and see the world. We've become so hypnotised as a race that so many people just want to come home from work and veg in front of the telly. Never using their minds, or imagination. Get out there and do it. Then send us a post card.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> We're looking to move to NZ. The difference with us is that we're looking to do it permanently.


 
Hey!  You are stealing my families idea!  Our move may or may not be permanent though.  It is, however, in our five year plan.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 17, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Hey! You are stealing my families idea! Our move may or may not be permanent though. It is, however, in our five year plan.


 
Time to get out of the Frozen North, eh?


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Hey! You are stealing my families idea! Our move may or may not be permanent though. It is, however, in our five year plan.


 
What, you're looking to move to NZ? Copycat. :0p


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## mrhnau (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> What, you're looking to move to NZ? Copycat.



But... but... but...

there is no hockey there!


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

mrhnau said:
			
		

> But... but... but...
> 
> there is no hockey there!


 
Damn... good point. :xtrmshock They DO have rugby however, and that will more than make up for the lack of hockey. I'll just have to listen to the radio games. Not as good, but hey.  Besides, we all know the Leafs will pwn the league next year. 

Sorry XS, please continue.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 17, 2006)

mrhnau said:
			
		

> But... but... but...
> 
> there is no hockey there!


 
I think they have ice in NZ...:idunno:


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I think they have ice in NZ...:idunno:


 
Correctamundo. Fox's Glacier, and the Franz Josef Glacier. More than enough ice to play hockey on. 

So, XS, still wanna move to China?


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> Damn... good point. :xtrmshock They DO have rugby however, and that will more than make up for the lack of hockey. I'll just have to listen to the radio games. Not as good, but hey.  Besides, we all know the Leafs will pwn the league next year.
> 
> Sorry XS, please continue.


 
*HA!!!* They got it *ALL* in Beijing... well maybe not Rugby


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> I'd always rather regret the things I did do in life, than those I didn't. With that in mind, the experience for your family and yourself will be incredible. Your friends will always be your friends, your family too. There are NO guarantees in life, and as a result, when we're presented with opportunities such as these, we grab them by the fuzzy bits and swing them round for all we're worth.
> 
> At the end of the day, when you're on your death bed, you won't remember those extra dollars you would have made, or the extra years you worked in your govt job, it'll be the experiences you shared with your immediate family. What you earn, or do, what car you drive, mobile phone you have is ultimately immaterial in the grand scheme of things. As you've posted this looking for opinions, mine would be to do it. Do it yesterday.


 
Good points, more to consider, Thanks 

All except for the Cell phone part, I hate cell phones


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Another good rant, dude (sorry, couldn't resist).
> 
> My wife occasionally suggests we pick up and go somewhere else for a while. It's an interesting thought. I am very happy where I am for many reasons so I've probably been a bit less interested in it than she is. But it is good to consider it and you bringing it up is good for me to see. Thanks.


 
Hey, I can rant with the best of them  

It is, just as you said, and interesting thought at this point. However my wife is from Beijing so for her it is not so much as picking up and going somewhere new, to her its going home. And I am not completely happy where I am right now. I am far from miserable, but there are other places I like better and one of those is Beijing, but it is still several thousand miles from my family. 

But it is still far from a certainty that I we will ever go there to live. A lot of this depends on her medical practice and of course my parents. They would of course miss their grand daughter immensely. 

As I said time will tell I guess. 

And if my rant helped in anyway that's great.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> Hey! You are stealing my families idea! Our move may or may not be permanent though. It is, however, in our five year plan.


 
Who stealing it Kensai or me?


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Good points, more to consider, Thanks
> 
> All except for the Cell phone part, I hate cell phones


 
Me too mate. Mine's a knackered old block, I get frowned upon in the UK for not having the latest BBNHDF2000 - breakfast making, sexy super slee....YAWN.....k phone. Soooo so shallow. 

You ever watched rugby by the way? I'm on a mission to educate Americans to the charms of this game.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 17, 2006)

Actually, sometimes New Zealand sounds pretty good...maybe we'll all meet up there someday.

I agree about the cell phones.  I hate 'em, and I refuse to get one.  Don't want the damn thing.  Bloody electronic leash, is all it is.

Ray Bradbury, Science Fiction author, wrote a short story about how modern gadgets and gizmos like cell phones make our lives crazy.  It's called "The Murderer", and it was published in his volume "S is for Space", back in the 1950s.  Even tho the story was written so long ago, it is just amazing how accurately he envisioned the future, and how annoying he knew it would become.  Cracked me up when I read it.  It's a beautiful piece!


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> You ever watched rugby by the way?


 
Yes I have, actually a friend of mine played it when he went to College in Boston. 

I kinda sorta played it once myself. Actually it was suppose to be soccer, but it was with a bunch of martial artists, so it ended up more like a cross between Soccer, Rugby, Wrestling and Sparring. It was one of the greatest games I ever played.


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 17, 2006)

Flying Crane said:
			
		

> Actually, sometimes New Zealand sounds pretty good...maybe we'll all meet up there someday.
> 
> I agree about the cell phones. I hate 'em, and I refuse to get one. Don't want the damn thing. Bloody electronic leash, is all it is.
> 
> Ray Bradbury, Science Fiction author, wrote a short story about how modern gadgets and gizmos like cell phones make our lives crazy. It's called "The Murderer", and it was published in his volume "S is for Space", back in the 1950s. Even tho the story was written so long ago, it is just amazing how accurately he envisioned the future, and how annoying he knew it would become. Cracked me up when I read it. It's a beautiful piece!


 
Most unfortunately I have to carry one. My wife makes me, and I have kids so I have one more often than I would like to and since I never like to... well you get the picture. 

I will have to get the book and read it.


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## Kensai (Aug 17, 2006)

Xue Sheng said:
			
		

> Yes I have, actually a friend of mine played it when he went to College in Boston.
> 
> I kinda sorta played it once myself. Actually it was suppose to be soccer, but it was with a bunch of martial artists, so it ended up more like a cross between Soccer, Rugby, Wrestling and Sparring. It was one of the greatest games I ever played.


 
Good lad. :asian: One down, 299 million, 999 thousand, 999 to go. I will get round you all. 

FC, if you've never been to NZ, it is quite simply the most awe inspiring place I've ever been. My family have been there for a few years, I can think of nowhere better to meet up. Seriously.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 17, 2006)

Kensai said:
			
		

> Good lad. :asian: One down, 299 million, 999 thousand, 999 to go. I will get round you all.
> 
> FC, if you've never been to NZ, it is quite simply the most awe inspiring place I've ever been. My family have been there for a few years, I can think of nowhere better to meet up. Seriously.


 
My father-in-law and step-mother-in-law visited about a year ago and liked it quite a lot.  I've been wanting to visit that corner of the globe for years, but haven't made it yet.  Airfare is huge to get there.  I will tho, give me time...


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## MA-Caver (Aug 17, 2006)

I read your pros and cons... honestly speaking... if I were you I'd go for it.

Think about it... China has been a closed country for a long time to a majority of western visitors. Now they're not quite so anal about people from the west coming to visit/work in their country. Times they are a changing. I see it as a once in a life-time opportunity to see mainland China.
I've a caver friend who has to go back to mainland China for at least two weeks out of every-year to renew his visa, though he is a student/professor of chemistry here in the states... (U of U). 
Whenever he goes he invites us other cavers to join him as he has caver friends there. He says for about 2000.00 bucks you can visit the country for a week and everything is paid for; food, rental car, hotel(s), round-trip air-fare. When I hit that amount in my savings I'm going... that's all there is to it.  

To work/live there and be able to save up boo-koos of cash/capital for your return home, to see a relatively unknown land and get to know the people intimately, to expand and grow your mind and experiences ... dude... opportunity is knocking.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 18, 2006)

I think that it could be a great experience for you!  Trust your heart and you will come to the right decision.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Jade Tigress (Aug 18, 2006)

I think I'd go for it too. 

Like Kensai said, I'd rather regret the things I did do in life, than those I didn't.

Beijing looks like an absolutely beautiful place. I envy your opportunity.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 10, 2006)

OK this is still years away, if it happens at all, but a twist has been added. But first let me reiterate this is still just in the discussion phase and not set in stone.

My wife wants to send our youngest daughter to China for 2 years of school. Basically when she returns her math skills will be very advanced compared to her American classmates and she would be fluent in Chinese (reading and writing). However my wife has decided that it will likely be impossible for her to leave her business her at that time, to many patients may be depending on her. But this means that dad (me) may have to go live in Beijing for 2 years with my daughter and in-laws. Of course I would need to get a job the same as before and the perks would be the same as before except my wife, who is from there, would not be going. Just coming to visit us twice a year.

And the dad going part is all my idea because even though I know my in-laws would take very good care of our daughter, I just think it would be to traumatic for her to be sent there and not have either of us around. Since she would not be fluent in Chinese by then.

So now what do you think?


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