# How Long Are Your Tests?



## Kirk (Jan 14, 2003)

In your various schools, when you test for a new belt, what are
you tested on?

In my school, we're tested on everything from white on up to
the belt your testing for.  It should make for one LOOOOOOONG
black belt test!!!  I can't even imagine!!!!


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## Sanddragon (Jan 14, 2003)

Kirk,
That is true in several of the schools that I know of, however many of these schools only do a lot of there forms and techniques on one side. So even though they cover material from white until the belt being tested for time is going to vary.

Wow sorry about that, took a long way say that it depends on how much material is covered from each belt and how much if not everything is required for the new belt.  :asian:


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## Jill666 (Jan 14, 2003)

Each test I have been in, the format is different. One test took only two hours, the back belt test was five hours long. :anic: I have only tested at my current school, so have no knowlege of how it goes down elsewhere.

A note, all of my tests except one have been, er, well, at that time of the month- a cruel happenstance. That includes my black belt test, by the way.

"God hates me, that's what it is." "Hate him back- it works for me"


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## Kirk (Jan 14, 2003)

Oh MAN!!!!  That's just awful!


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## GouRonin (Jan 14, 2003)

Sometimes I wonder about these regurgitation of material tests. Perhaps that is what causes people to adhere to the material of their system so much and fail to move beyond the _"Imitating Monkey"_ stage into the spontaneous.

I'm all for endurance but perhaps there are other ways to test this? When I was boxing my coach knew I was ready after long hours of sparring in the ring and being able to use the knowledge on an actual use basis. There was no test. Every day was a test.

Maybe I'm just thinking out loud...I dunno.


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## molson (Jan 14, 2003)

Our underblack tests reviewed all basics and katas from White to your current belt. All selfdefense for your current belt is reviewed with Uki and random selfdefense from all other belts are reviewed also. The higher the rank the longer the test. 

1st degree black test is all material katas,weapons, self defense....you have learned including extra katas that you may have picked up along the way. This is done at full speed with very little break.. usually last several hours. 

My 2nd degree was almost the same except all material other than 2nd black was called out at random. Physically and mentally demanding.


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## bahenlaura (Jan 14, 2003)

In our school, white to brown test in front of Si-Bok and our Black belts, they are asked various forms and set according to where they are in belt ranking, perform self defense and own personal form are part of the testing too.
Brown and above are tested every 6 month in front of a panel consist of SiGung, Sibok, and other high ranking black belts from other kenpo schools and states. i might also add that after reveiving 1st black, there is a 3 year probation time before you can test for your 2nd and so on.


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## Blindside (Jan 14, 2003)

All our tests are taken individually, we don't do group tests.

You are tested on all the material you are supposed to know (forms, techs, sets, basics, etc.) both on a person and in the air.  

At orange belt tests and above you are given spontaneous attacks to react against.

At blue and above you start being graded on your teaching ability, and your ability to break down forms and techniques.

At brown you are quized on your knowledge of kenpo history, analysis of the system, etc all categorized into a catch-all "other category."  

At black there is a requirement for full (well, almost) contact sparring.

Needless to say all of these are cumulative, my black belt test was 5 hours long, but that is because either A) I screwed up alot and had to show and explain everything I was doing or B) I talked way too much on the "other" category.  (I tend toward the latter, my board was grumbling about missing lunch when they were walking out the door.)

Lamont


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 14, 2003)

I have to agree with Jill; the test will be as long as it needs to be. Although I'm not quite sure that testing for each belt you need to retest over everything from the beginning again. That's just an individual instructor thing some do and some don't.


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## jeffkyle (Jan 14, 2003)

A few tests...and I have seen ALL of them vary depending on several circumstances...It ALL depends!


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## bahenlaura (Jan 15, 2003)

how can you test through video????????????? sometimes it makes me wonder!!! How can you test through someone else but your own instructor???? i wounder!!!


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## jeffkyle (Jan 15, 2003)

Never done it...


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## headkick (Jan 15, 2003)

My First Black was about an hour and half.  Basics, sets (not all), forms (not all), techniques (not all) and sparring (all  ).  Some tests were shorter.  My instructor would ask the other assembled panel members if there was anything else they would like to see before we moved on.   Intensity level stays high, conditioning is important and it doesn't forever.  I like it.  I don't think I would need to see every technique from white to black to know if someone understands what they're doing.  Are the basics sound and the same from isolation to sets to forms to techniques?  Shouldn't take that long to find out.

Just my thoughts...  I've been in longer tests, that's for sure.


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## GouRonin (Jan 15, 2003)

I remember one test of mine. I had to swim a marathon to an island and fight a tiger. When I finished that I had to swim another marathon to another island and fight their chief and then I had to go into a mine and bring back the water from a dripping spike to heal a sick child.



Come on. People who brag about how tough their belt tests are are wacko. I can't believe some people. As for video testing, it's probably no less valid than any other form of testing. (Although I don't agree with it.) Most testing is a joke anyway. The real testing should be the work you put in daily. As if one day in your life suddenly makes you certified in anything.

Bah...
:soapbox:


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## bahenlaura (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *Never done it... *



Never Tested? Or never Test through anouther instructor?


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *Most testing is a joke anyway. The real testing should be the work you put in daily. As if one day in your life suddenly makes you certified in anything. *



Right on!!!!!!!!!!!:asian:


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## jeffkyle (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *I remember one test of mine. I had to swim a marathon to an island and fight a tiger. When I finished that I had to swim another marathon to another island and fight their chief and then I had to go into a mine and bring back the water from a dripping spike to heal a sick child.
> 
> 
> ...



Well put!


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## bahenlaura (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *I remember one test of mine. I had to swim a marathon to an island and fight a tiger. When I finished that I had to swim another marathon to another island and fight their chief and then I had to go into a mine and bring back the water from a dripping spike to heal a sick child.
> 
> 
> ...



Well said.
i believe the real test is; do you study the art for belt ranking or for knowledge. that my friend is the real test. that what makes people leave studios and go on to another instructor which will give out ranks like candy or buy videos and get ranking through MTV.
honostly do you think your belt can save you out there.
you are right. 
My humble oponion.
Burt
Your Brother in Art
:asian:


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## jeffkyle (Jan 15, 2003)

> Never Tested? Or never Test through anouther instructor?



Never Video Tested.


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## Nightingale (Jan 15, 2003)

my test for brown belt was 4 and a half hours long.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *my test for brown belt was 4 and a half hours long. *



You're saying the length of the test is the "quality measure" for your belt rank..... ?


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## Nightingale (Jan 15, 2003)

no.  the question was "how long are your tests?"  and I answered it.

On my test, we went through every single technique (98 of them) both in the air and on the body, and every form, along with every basic.

With regards to "quality,"  we've discussed this, and you know how I feel about it. There's no need to drag it into a public forum.


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## Rainman (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *
> Most testing is a joke anyway. The real testing should be the work you put in daily. As if one day in your life suddenly makes you certified in anything.
> 
> ...



How do you know that?  Have you been to most tests?  Subjective yes, but a joke- That would depend on what was actually included in the test.   I think they can be quite a learning experience and a great workout.   For the instructor it also highlights weak points in their students.   Some people have day jobs so it is not possible to know off the top of their  head what and where improvements have to be made in every student.  Testing gives material to be graded on- a basis on which improvements can be made.   In Kenpo shcools notes and records should be kept by students as well and the head intructor.  

So use all the available methods/tools you can to grow skill.  It seems dumb to me to throw away anything that can help even if the amount is small.


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## Goldendragon7 (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _*
> no.  the question was "how long are your tests?"  and I answered it.
> *



Right, I see that.



> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _*
> On my test, we went through every single technique (98 of them) both in the air and on the body, and every form, along with every basic.
> 
> With regards to "quality,"  we've discussed this, and you know how I feel about it. There's no need to drag it into a public forum. *



Right, me either.  No disrespect intended.

But just a good example of What the "relevance" really is to the length of test has to do with quality........    Many interpret length to quality and difficulty....... 

I have seen relativity short tests but good ones...... yet others that I stopped because there was no use in continuing thru watching multiples of bad material.  I have seen also witnessed long tests that were physically demanding (if that was what the tester wanted to check) and the student performed very well, yet others that were struggles.

Being able to demonstrate what you have learned to a specific skill level and development is what I look for if one is testing for advancement.  However this is a very, very subjective event and different instructors have a wide degree of differences on what they do during a testing and want they want to student to demonstrate.  There is no cut and dry standard.  



:asian:


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## GouRonin (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> *How do you know that?  Have you been to most tests?*



Yes. I have been to every single test. Ever. Maybe you didn't see me. I was in the back row.


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## Rainman (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *Yes. I have been to every single test. Ever. Maybe you didn't see me. I was in the back row.
> *




Smelled the beer- good enough:moon:


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## KenpoGirl (Jan 15, 2003)

The previous studio I went to 2 yrs ago.  Only tested on the relevant belt material.  All Techniques were done in the air never on another person, and even if you did an obviously crappy job you still passed.

YET, I am told the Black Belt test was murder, a 3-mile run followed by 3, 3-hour tests done over 3 weekends.  One to show physical ability, another for basics, and third for techniques, again only done in the air.  AND it is alleged that students have done crappy in these tests too and still were passed.  This made no sence to me.

Luckily I'm no longer with them.

I see no problem with long demanding tests; it's a sort of rite of passage to me.  You worked so hard for so long, show us what you can do.  As long as you are not trying to kill the person pushing them beyond necessary limits.  LOL but I have no compulsion to be "kicked in" that's just a macho thing to me.  

My 2 cents.

Dot


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## bahenlaura (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *Never Video Tested. *



 

So you have tested in front of other higher ranking belts to get promoted.

when was this?


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## Chu-Chulain (Jan 15, 2003)

Another factor to consider in tests is that it does address peoples ability to act and react under stress and duress.

My Purple belt test was relatively short at about 40 minutes, but I was tested individually and it was very intense. Near the end I was certainly flaking (being middle age and not terribly fit!) and after a mistake through fatigue, the comment from my instructor was "c'mon, the guy on the street isn't going to wait for you to get your breath back!"

As in all tests, be they physical or academic, they are not really a fair assessment of your complete ability and knowledge, but I do think they are a fair assessment of your capabilities under pressure.

Another question, does everyone practice the birthing right of passage with a kick to the stomach and what are opinions on that??


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## KenpoGirl (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by KenpoGirl _
> * LOL but I have no compulsion to be "kicked in" that's just a macho thing to me.
> 
> Dot *




There's my answer.


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## jeffkyle (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bahenlaura _
> *
> 
> So you have tested in front of other higher ranking belts to get promoted.
> ...



Pretty much everytime I tested.  There was always a panel of high ranking belts there to test me.


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## jeffkyle (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> *Yes. I have been to every single test. Ever. Maybe you didn't see me. I was in the back row.
> *



That was you?       All this time I have known your face, but I never knew It was you!  WOW!


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## GouRonin (Jan 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jeffkyle _
> *That was you?       All this time I have known your face, but I never knew It was you!  WOW!   *



Yes. Your buffet is terrible.
 



> _Originally posted by rainman _
> *Smelled the beer- good enough *



...and I thank you for keeping it on tap and cold!


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 15, 2003)

At my dojo we just learn kata's that we need to know. We spar. And Sensie will just give us a black belt when the kata is good enough.


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## Nightingale (Jan 15, 2003)

I'm sorry, but I have to ask...

That's all you do?!


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## Jill666 (Jan 15, 2003)

Being kicked in is pretty standard I guess, but I got elbowed in the gut instead. Maybe letting me off lightly 'cuz I was a girl?

Ok, here's the question (poll if you want to), how many have seen other students fail a test?

(Tosses the hot potato...:flame: )

I haven't seen it a lot, but I've seen it.


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## Nightingale (Jan 15, 2003)

I have. a purple belt testing for blue. he completely screwed up.


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 15, 2003)

I don't think that you follow me Nightingale. We will learn kata's/ weapons forms etc. And we practice all the time. But instead of having a formal test where someone who isn't prepared is ready. Sensei will just call one of us over or 2 or however many know the material well enough. And he will test us then and there. My dojo is very small. If we pass then we get our new belt. If we dno't then we go and practice again.


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## Chu-Chulain (Jan 15, 2003)

In another system I have experienced many years ago, grading was based purely on demonstrated ability, i.e. the rank received (including mongs/stripes) was different for each person. Gradings were scheduled once per year. So in my first grading I had been training fairly hard for about a year and did reasonably well, so I received an Orange 3 mong. The highest I could have received would have been Green (I think belts were yellow, orange, green, light blue, dark blue, brown, black). Two people out of about 40 beginners received Green, about 60% various Orange 1/2/3 and the rest various yellow 1/2/3.

I liked this approach (especially the mongs) as it enabled people to receive recognition for extra effort or ability and I think relieved a certain tendency to award the belt to everyone who turned up, or they might feel bad.


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## SingingTiger (Jan 15, 2003)

At my school, most tests are private:  one black belt conducting the test, one student being tested, and one "dummy" (so the student being tested can perform techniques).  The only tests I know of that weren't private were for two friends who were taking semi-private lessons together; they had learned the material at about the same rate for a while, so they tested together for the first two or three belts.  I think there might be two black belts for black belt tests, but I'm not sure, I've never seen one.

How much material is covered is up to the discretion of the testing black belt, but my understanding is that the higher the ranking, the smaller the number of lower-ranked techniques.  My own experience bears this out, as I only had to do about half of the yellow and orange techniques when I tested for my blue belt.

I've seen references here to tests that last for 4 or 5 hours, and I'm still amazed.  For the most part, that seems excessive to me.  I'm not sure that the reasons I've seen would justify it for me, though I suppose I'd actually have to study at a school where it happens to know for sure.  I'm guessing it's mostly done for the same reason that medical residents have to work 18-hour days:  "I had to do it, so they'll have to do it too!"



> does everyone practice the birthing right of passage with a kick to the stomach and what are opinions on that??



I'd never heard of it until I started reading this board.  If I understand the practice correctly, it seems silly to me.  But I might not understand the practice correctly, or the reasons behind it (if there is one, other than the same "I got kicked, so you'll get kicked too!" sort of reason).

Rich


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## bahenlaura (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *I have. a purple belt testing for blue. he completely screwed up. *



 
cool site. i can't wait till you fix it all up. i like the choice of color.
Burt


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## bahenlaura (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *Being kicked in is pretty standard I guess, but I got elbowed in the gut instead. Maybe letting me off lightly 'cuz I was a girl?
> 
> Ok, here's the question (poll if you want to), how many have seen other students fail a test?
> ...


 
well, i would not call it failing. it is more like redirecting someone's attention to where it needs to be. the enlightenment does wonders for big eggoes and big heads. it kind of help us to keep things in prespective. i know it helped me to get back on the road couple times when i was going for brown!
 
Burt
Your Brother In Art


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## Nightingale (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SRyuFighter _
> *I don't think that you follow me Nightingale. We will learn kata's/ weapons forms etc. And we practice all the time. But instead of having a formal test where someone who isn't prepared is ready. Sensei will just call one of us over or 2 or however many know the material well enough. And he will test us then and there. My dojo is very small. If we pass then we get our new belt. If we dno't then we go and practice again. *



what I'm asking is do you do anything other than kata/weapons and sparring?  do you do self defense?  do you have scenarios for "what if someone throws a punch at you?"


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## Nightingale (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by SingingTiger _
> *
> 
> I've seen references here to tests that last for 4 or 5 hours, and I'm still amazed.  For the most part, that seems excessive to me.  I'm not sure that the reasons I've seen would justify it for me, though I suppose I'd actually have to study at a school where it happens to know for sure.  I'm guessing it's mostly done for the same reason that medical residents have to work 18-hour days:  "I had to do it, so they'll have to do it too!"
> ...



hehe. it seemed excessive to me too, especially while I was experiencing it! LOL.  I almost passed out twice, and at that time I was spending a couple of hours at the gym every day as well as two hours at least in the studio.  

if you think about it, most fights only last a few minutes at the most... so what the heck does a four hour test accomplish other than torturing the student? LOL.


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 16, 2003)

Ohhhhhh, ok now I follow you. Yes we do that often, at the end of every class almost. We have a lot of pressure point usage in my system and they show us how to do those on an attacker and other ways in case we cant find the pressure point quickly enough.


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## Jill666 (Jan 16, 2003)

which may be my fault. I'm officially confused now. 

Or is it the beer? :drinkbeer 

Burt, you had a good point, and after I posted the word "failed" I guessed it wasn't just the right way to put it.

My cousin, who instructs, has a big thing about adults who went to school in this country find it hard to get past the win/fail/graduated stuff to just relax and learn. He also went on a (justified) rant about how someone "screws up" a technique, says"oh! ****" and tries the same thing again to get it "right" instead of adapting or doing it even more wrong to explore why it doesn't work. And he has to watch this dips--t do the same freakin' thing over & over, not learning until he makes them stop.

Ok, did I just introduce another thread here? Oh!****.


Cousin Dennis'  :soapbox:


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## jfarnsworth (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *He also went on a (justified) rant about how someone "screws up" a technique, says"oh! ****" and tries the same thing again to get it "right" instead of adapting or doing it even more wrong to explore why it doesn't work. And he has to watch this dips--t do the same freakin' thing over & over, not learning until he makes them stop. *



When I was with my first instructor I had to fail two people twice. They didn't want to listen and kept continueing to screw up and off. Neither one took the martial arts too seriously and thought they were going to slide by. Unfortunately for them I didn't let them slide.


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 16, 2003)

At my old school I could just slide by. Now at my new school everything and i mean absolutely everything has to be perfect.


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## Kenpomachine (Jan 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jill666 _
> *Ok, here's the question (poll if you want to), how many have seen other students fail a test?*



I have failed my first green exam and then the first brown exam. My teachers did know what I was able to do and wanted me to do it as well as we can. They have also failed some other people for various belts tests.  That is, if we underperform, we fail.

The first brown test was like three hours and a half, but it wasn't only the test, it was two regular 1 h classes with some individual performances on my side. And a third class with one of the instructors and 3 other black belts. I was doing almost everything accelerated (not controling much), and that's the reason I failed. 

The second test was much, much shorter and I did as well as I could, and much, much more relaxed


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 18, 2003)

A good friend of mine failed his test just the other day. And he was very dissappointed. I don't know why he failed.


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## jeffkyle (Jan 18, 2003)

$$$$$??


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## SRyuFighter (Jan 18, 2003)

More than likely it was money. His dojang costs a lot of money.


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## Kroy (Apr 7, 2003)

Its true that test are mearly a sweaty ceremony, it cannot replace the hours of sweat and pain you put in to get there.:boxing:


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## Mark L (Apr 8, 2003)

I tested last weekend for 2nd brown, it was long (5 hrs).  So why is it this way?  Because it has to be, it takes that long to go through the material.  Would I prefer it was shorter? Certainly.  So would the instructor.  What did I get out of it?  A good deal of satisfaction, atired and sore body, and the opportunity to explore some new material.

We covered all material from white on up, a good idea in my mind.  The rank implies a certain degree of proficiency with the curriculum as a whole, not just the newer stuff.   

Students have failed test, but it is uncommon.  The process of getting to the test (we wouldn't be invited if we weren't capable of passing), coupled with the known rigor of testing, tends to get us focused.  

Its kind of a double edged sword.  It's nice to be rewarded for working hard to achieve a goal.  But the anticipation of the test during the months of preparation really screws with my head.  I don't look forward to it or enjoy it, rather the opposite.  I see it as a necessary evil.  I've noticed that as my classmates and I advance in rank, it's more difficult to get us to test.  Is this common?


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## SingingTiger (Apr 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Mark L _
> *I tested last weekend for 2nd brown, it was long (5 hrs).  So why is it this way?  Because it has to be, it takes that long to go through the material.*



Was this a group test or a private test?



> *I've noticed that as my classmates and I advance in rank, it's more difficult to get us to test.  Is this common? *



It seems to be with some of the brown belts at my school, though not all.

Rich


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## Mark L (Apr 8, 2003)

Was this a group test or a private test?

Group test, 2 browns and 4 greens.  Three BB's doing the testing, one watching each pair.


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## Ender (Apr 29, 2003)

for our BB test, we had to do 100 push ups, sit up,s jumping jacks. Then all the techniques from purple on. then our weapons katas and our self made kata (3 techniques from each belt). then the kick in the stomach from all three judges. our instructor took pity on us and we didn't have to spar.*l...but it was tough....took about 4.5 hours.


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## webpage20022003 (Apr 30, 2003)

mine takes 1 hour


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