# Some Liang BaGuaZhang Application



## Joey Haber (Feb 10, 2019)

I've start to post some applications to the Liang BaGuaZhang DIngShiBaZhang or Fixed Eight Palms. I will try and post once a week on my youtube channel.


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## Joey Haber (Feb 10, 2019)




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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 10, 2019)

Joey Haber said:


> I've start to post some applications to the Liang BaGuaZhang DIngShiBaZhang or Fixed Eight Palms. I will try and post once a week on my youtube channel.


Is this for information only, or do you intend to discuss the Bagua technique?


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## Joey Haber (Feb 10, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Is this for information only, or do you intend to discuss the Bagua technique?


I'm happy to discuss the techniques.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 10, 2019)

Joey Haber said:


>


At 1.31, 1.42, how do you prevent your opponent from releasing his wrist hold, and lock your neck while you are spinning your body and give him your back?

It's very risky to turn your back into your opponent. But Bagua system does this a lot and I don't understand why.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 10, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> At 1.31, 1.42, how do you prevent your opponent from releasing his wrist hold, and lock your neck while you are spinning your body and give him your back?
> 
> It's very risky to turn your back into your opponent. But Bagua system does this a lot and I don't understand why.


Someone else (i think @Xue Sheng ) mentioned recently that Bagua was a system trained for multiple attackers. A lot of it's movements, footwork and strategies make a ton of more sense from that perspective


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## Joey Haber (Feb 11, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> At 1.31, 1.42, how do you prevent your opponent from releasing his wrist hold, and lock your neck while you are spinning your body and give him your back?
> 
> It's very risky to turn your back into your opponent. But Bagua system does this a lot and I don't understand why.


Great Question. As i said in the video, the drill at 1.31 and 1.42 is just a choreographed line drill to build comfort with footwork and spinal/hip articulation. It has no real use in combat. The video ends with an abridged version of the line drill that has some potential under duress 2.57.


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## Joey Haber (Feb 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Someone else (i think @Xue Sheng ) mentioned recently that Bagua was a system trained for multiple attackers. A lot of it's movements, footwork and strategies make a ton of more sense from that perspective


 

BaGua does train to turn the back on opponents in multiple attacker situations. However, it's not something taught flippantly. The teachers I have worked with in TianTan, from both the Cheng and Liang families, have made it pretty clear that there is significant liability with turning the back. They have taught that it only really works if a constant destabilizing contact is kept with the opponent you are turning away from. This could take the form of disrupting spinal alignment or targeting the knee in a turn. it could also be a half complete thrown or lock that allows for a turn while one opponent is off balanced.


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## wab25 (Feb 11, 2019)

Joey Haber said:


> They have taught that it only really works if a constant destabilizing contact is kept with the opponent you are turning away from. This could take the form of disrupting spinal alignment


However, at the points in question (1.31 and 1.42), the guy turning his back, is the one with the bad spinal alignment. His structure appears broken, and his balance taken, by the way he is leaning so far back. The other guy just needs to take a step back, and the guy with his back turned, will land on his quister.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 11, 2019)

Joey Haber said:


> It has no real use in combat.


Why do you want to spend your valuable training time to develop something that has no combat value? Of course you may say that you train for health.

1. Train for health.
2. Train for combat but you will get health benefit too.

IMO, 2 > 1.

I train Bagua 8 palms as well. Every system has PRO and CON.

PRO:

1. Single switching hands.
2. Double switching hands.
3. Kou Bu (inward shin bite) and Bai Bu (outward shin bite).

CON:

1. Turn your back into your opponent.
2. Cross your legs while you are in your opponent's foot sweeping range.

I like to discuss the PRO. I also like to discuss the CON.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 11, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Why do you want to spend your valuable training time to develop something that has no combat value? Of course you may say that you train for health.
> 
> 1. Train for health.
> 2. Train for combat but you will get health benefit too.
> ...


You've posted before about your one-side-weighted pole, that I think you used to train for a tournament. Flipping the pole over has no real combat use, if you did that while in a fight, someone would just punch you while you're distracted. But it still helps, since it helped you develop a specific skill, and that skill had the combat use.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Flipping the pole over has no real combat use,


It develops the leg strength to enhance certain throwing skill.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 11, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> It develops the leg strength to enhance certain throwing skill.


Exactly. You wouldn't use it in a fight, but it enhances the skills you do use in a fight. Certain balancing techniques and stances have that same purpose.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Exactly. You wouldn't use it in a fight, but it enhances the skills you do use in a fight. Certain balancing techniques and stances have that same purpose.


Agree that the body rotation can enhance the balance, flexibility, and footwork, it can have benefit for combat as well.


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