# Tae-Kwon-Do



## Bob Hubbard

From the rec.martialarts FAQ

(Contributors: Dakin Burdick - burdick@silver.ucs.indiana.edu,
               Ray Terry - rterry@hpkel02.cup.hp.com)

Intro:   One of the most popular sports and martial arts in the world.

Origin:   Korea

History:        

The five original Korean Kwans ("schools") were: Chung Do Kwan, Moo
Duk Kwan (the art of Tang Soo Do), Yun Moo Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, and
Chi Do Kwan.  These were founded in 1945 and 1946.  Three more Kwans
were founded in the early 1950's - Ji Do Kwan, Song Moo Kwan, and Oh
Do Kwan. 

After fifty years of occupation by Japan (which ended in 1945) and
after the division of the nation and the Korean War, Korean
nationalism spurred the creation of a national art in 1955, combining
the styles of the numerous kwans active within the country (with the
exception of Moo Duk Kwan, which remained separate - therefore Tang
Soo Do is still a separate art from TKD today).  Gen. Hong Hi Choi was
primarily responsible for the creation of this new national art, which
was named Tae Kwon Do to link it with Tae-Kyon (a native art). Earlier
unification efforts had been called Kong Soo Do, Tae Soo Do, etc. Many
masters had learned Japanese arts during the occupation, or had
learned Chinese arts in Manchuria.  Only a few had been lucky enough
to be trained by the few native martial artists who remained active
when the Japanese banned all martial arts in Korea.  Choi himself had
taken Tae-Kyon (a Korean art) as a child, but had earned his 2nd dan
in Shotokan Karate while a student in Japan. 

Description: 

Primarily a kicking art.  There is often a greater emphasis on the
sport aspect of the Art.  Tae-Kwon-Do stylists tend to fight at an
extended range, and keep opponents away with their feet.   It is a
hard/soft, external, fairly linear style.  It is known for being very
powerful. 

Training: 

Training tends to emphasize sparring, but has forms, and basics are
important as well.  There is a lot of competition work in many
dojongs. 

The World Taekwondo Federation is the governing body recognized by the
International Olympic Committee, and as a result WTF schools usually
emphasize Olympic-style full contact sparring.  The WTF is represented
in the U.S. by the U.S. Taekwondo Union (USTU). 

The International Taekwondo Federation is an older organization
founded by Hong Hi Choi and based out of Canada.  It tends to
emphasize a combination of self-defense and sparring, and uses forms
slightly older than those used by the WTF. 

The American Taekwondo Association is a smaller organization similar
in some ways to the ITF.  It is somewhat more insular than the ITF and
WTF, and is somewhat unique in that it has copyrighted the forms of
its organization so that they cannot be used in competition by
non-members. 

There are numerous other federations and organizations, many claiming
to be national (AAU TKD has perhaps the best claim here) or
international (although few are), but these three have the most
members.  All of these federations, however, use similar techniques
(kicks, strikes, blocks, movement, etc.), as indeed does Tang Soo Do
(another Korean art, founded by the Moo Duk Kwan, that remained
independent during the unification/foundation of Tae Kwon Do). 

Sub-Styles:  None(?)


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## arnisador

I came across a TKD webzine that appears to be pretty high quality. Of course there's also the Tae Kwon Do Times.


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## arnisador

Those interested in TKD should note that the KMA-Generalforum has some discussion of Taekkyon, Moo Duk Kwan, and so on; also there is the Tang Soo Do forum.


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## cali_tkdbruin

Thanks for the links...:asian:


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## bobster_ice

ive been doing tae kwon do for a year, atm im on my green tag, tae kwon do has improved my fitness and has helped me in ninjitsu, it is pretty good compitition


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## bobster_ice

whoops, i posted it to soon,ive been doing tae kwon do for a year, atm im on my green tag, tae kwon do has improved my fitness and has helped me in ninjitsu, it is pretty good compitition and alot of hot girls (if ya know wa i mean) well, i must go now as im tired, cya guys


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## terryl965

Bob I wpould suggesting to update the listing there is no USTU anymore it is called the USA Taekwondo. Thanks
Terry


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## cali_tkdbruin

terryl965 said:
			
		

> Bob I wpould suggesting to update the listing there is no USTU anymore it is called the USA Taekwondo. Thanks
> Terry



Yep, try http://www.usa-taekwondo.us/default.asp


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## xayvong

yeah, even though many people get really good at taekwondo, some don't devolop a true taekwondo attitude, if ya know what i mean, i'm still working on mine, but i'll get there sooner or later.


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## michaeljray2001

agreed.   Tae Kwon Do is a way of life, and I love it.  for me it greatly improved my fitness, balance and self discipline.   

Personally, I live for the training and the lasting bonded friendships in the Dojo.

Best Regards,
Michael


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## phatbway

Thanks for the links everyone, great help here.


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## alexander kabentayev

How dear friends! I'd like to get tae-kwon-do forms video. Can you provide it to me?


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## cbjr5

Thank you for the info on Tae Kwon Do.  Being new to it, it's nice to know it's history and philosophy.


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## karatemom

There is also the International Taekwonda Alliance or ITA for short. 
See: http://www.itaonline.com/


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## MOB

I have concerns about how long you can actually be proficient in tae-kwon-do. What happens when you get to a age where you can't do what you could do when you where younger? Ie. Chin-Na (Chinese grappling), which could be done from a wheelchair and still be effective....?


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## Master Dan

You need to train with someone who is an expert in training people over 40. In all martial art it goes in stages of unlearning what you have learned.

After 40 you will benifit from strength training 4 times faster than younger people but you will deteriorate 4 times faster when you stop. You must never stop training but change how you train based on age and health conditions. One of the worst things I see nation wide is the Ego of sport TKD forcing out of shape people or older people to do unhealthy or unecessary techiniques because the instructor has no real education in medical/health related issues and true self defense which are the two main reasons for any martial art training for life Health and self defense. 

Analyze your diet and health. All training should be to build you up not tear you down, slow deliberate low impact movements with balance. Most TKD public classes because they are money oriented warm ups are rediculous with maybe 5 to 15 minutes devoted to stretching and breathing and much of that totally wrong for older or out of shape people. A good class will be two hours or more with at least 45 minutes dedicated to stretching, breathing and strengthening the joints, skeletal and neurological. I spent many years developing a self healing part of our TKD that uses Chi gong, Hap Kido and other methods. Getting older has nothing to do with pain. If you have pain you can fix it many times with out drugs or surgery. You have to have the ego of why do I train? not to look like some bouncy adolecent but feel good and that could mean you get to learn something the young ones don't. Find a better instructor or you may need to cross train in something else.

I trained with people that were still putting young boys down at 90


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## tiger 515

Hello Everyone, hows it going?

I'm new to this form, but not to TKD. I myself am a second degree black belt and have been studying for quite some time.

I would like any here on this form to check out this website that I found. It has SIX (6) brothers and sisters who are all 2nd degree black belts. Their forms are from the old style ( before the most recent changes), but to music they look pretty cool. They even have some Korean on their site.

I'd like to know what every one else thinks about it.
www.ifanyoneisthirsty.com/#/seol/

Let me know what you think. Best wishes to everyone.


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## Fing Fang Foom

Welcome to the best place on the forum Tiger! 

Hope you enjoy the ride!!!


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## Master Dan

tiger 515 said:


> Hello Everyone, hows it going?
> 
> I'm new to this form, but not to TKD. I myself am a second degree black belt and have been studying for quite some time.
> 
> I would like any here on this form to check out this website that I found. It has SIX (6) brothers and sisters who are all 2nd degree black belts. Their forms are from the old style ( before the most recent changes), but to music they look pretty cool. They even have some Korean on their site.
> 
> I'd like to know what every one else thinks about it.
> www.ifanyoneisthirsty.com/#/seol/
> 
> Let me know what you think. Best wishes to everyone.


 
My best friend founded the WCTF World Christian Taekwondo Federation I sent this to him suggestig they should do something like this enjoyed the music and scripture. However I am a Hanmadang referee if they were going to compete or want to do more they should get all the video from national and World Hanmadang competitions lots of good stuff for them to do.

thanks for the post


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## Markku P

Hi 

My name is Markku Parviainen and I have been training Taekwondo around 30 years, I actually started with Karate but after 4 years training I burn myself! ( Too much training ) I did compete international level about 10 years, coached some elite level fighters. I currently live in Sweden, Huskvarna.

Now I will be more at home so I can write more!

Here is some pictures from past! You can see my skinny self 1985 before world championships in Korea ( at the bottom of the page ) Click here!

Yours, Markku


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## ajury

That is a good question.  I am 46 and currently a 1st dan.  The Grandmaster for our school still practices and teaches and he is in his late 70's.

We have a few students that have started in their 60's.  There are a few things they cannot do but they have fun and work hard at what they can, its great to see.

Of course we are a traditional non contact school so that may be part of the difference.

Be well, do your best!  Meet great people and have fun.

Personally when I cant do it anymore I will probably go back to Tai Chi,  I studied for 3 years and really enjoyed it.


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## Napitenkah

I have heard more than one person say that with conditioning, if you don't do it consistently you lose it. The calcium gets redistributed back to the places its usually needed.
For me, that has not been the case.
If I start a conditioning and get it going for awhile, then not do it for awhile, if I come back, I often find that the level I was at last, has either stayed the same or sometimes is better.
Like I saw a way to condition was to hit the black part of the Bob doll with the legs.
It is a nice balance of soft and hardness.
The first time I did it, I just barely kicked it, and I hurt my leg, to where I had to wait a week before starting it again.
Then I gradually would do multiple low roundhouse kicks on each leg.
Not hard, real light, after hitting a long Muay Thai type bag.
I was doing that off and on for a few eeks, then I didn't do anything for over a month.
I didn't know what would happen when I got back to it, but I actually found I could hit it a little bit harder then the last time I did it.
I seem to condition quick, and it stays. I'm 46.
Even when I started kicking the Muay Thai bag, my legs could feel it, but now I can kick it much harder. The same with hand strikes on BOB. I don't use gloves, even though I have them. So at first I would feel it, and my wrists would sometimes crank. Now I can hit harder and longer, even if I don't go for several weeks.


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## Eastpointvet

Why are the hands typically low? Why don't most competitors use punching as much? It seems to be avoided at all cost in favor of kicks. Is that just for scoring?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dirty Dog

Eastpointvet said:


> Why are the hands typically low? Why don't most competitors use punching as much? It seems to be avoided at all cost in favor of kicks. Is that just for scoring?



WTF Olympic rules sparring disallows punches to the head and thus encourages the low hands approach. Not all TKD orgs or schools spar under this ruleset, of course. It's merely the one that gets the most coverage simply because it IS the Olympic model. Many people would like to see the rules changed, but they are what they are. At least for now.


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## Earl Weiss

Eastpointvet said:


> Why are the hands typically low? Why don't most competitors use punching as much? It seems to be avoided at all cost in favor of kicks. Is that just for scoring?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Because when the SK government decided to take over TKD after 20 years,  and reinvent it they needed ways to differentiate this new thing (New Patterns, new sparring rules) from what everyone else was doing.  I don't know that the no head punching existed in any "TKD" circles before this time. If it did, it was certainly extremely limited.


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## Laplace_demon

Dirty Dog said:


> WTF Olympic rules sparring disallows punches to the head and thus encourages the low hands approach. Not all TKD orgs or schools spar under this ruleset, of course. It's merely the one that gets the most coverage simply because it IS the Olympic model. Many people would like to see the rules changed, but they are what they are. At least for now.



Strangely enough, the guard is almost the same (low) in ITF contests, even at the highest level.


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## Spookey

Good Day Sir.

I would encourage a few modifications, for instance the Ji Do Kwan is not really another kwan, but rather a name change under new leadership. Additionally, there was a split in Moo Duk Kwan, with some moving forward to become Soo Bahk Do, and others becoming Taekwondo Moo Duk Kwan. 

You have also received some very valid input from other parties (ie. USAT).

Overall, it is a good summation!


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## Spookey

Please review your information related to the original five kwans.

Song Moo Kwan
Chung Do Kwan
Chang Moo Kwan
Yun Moo Kwan
Moo Duk Kwan

The Yun Moo Kwan essentially became the Ji Do Kwan.

Please advise of your findings.

Additionally, I believe there was actually a rift within the Moo Duk Kwan, which lead to the creation of Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.

The Moo Duk Kwan (TSD) now refers to their art as Soo Bahk Do if I'm not mistaken.


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## Dirty Dog

Spookey said:


> Additionally, I believe there was actually a rift within the Moo Duk Kwan, which lead to the creation of Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.



Close, but no cigar.
Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan was a founding Kwan of the unification movement. The split occurred later, (when GM HWANG, Kee left the unification for reasons of politics and ego) and resulted in some (most of what I've found indicates about 1/3) of the Kwan leaving and re-founding TSD MDK. 



Spookey said:


> The Moo Duk Kwan (TSD) now refers to their art as Soo Bahk Do if I'm not mistaken.



Again, close...

Tang Soo Do MDK still exists as a viable art and (at least in my own experience) is more widespread than Soo Bahk Do MDK.
This is, of course, the result of another of the many splits that have affected pretty much all organizations.


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## Spookey

Dirty Dog said:


> Close, but no cigar.
> Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan was a founding Kwan of the unification movement. The split occurred later, (when GM HWANG, Kee left the unification for reasons of politics and ego) and resulted in some (most of what I've found indicates about 1/3) of the Kwan leaving and re-founding TSD MDK.
> 
> Again, close...
> 
> Tang Soo Do MDK still exists as a viable art and (at least in my own experience) is more widespread than Soo Bahk Do MDK.
> This is, of course, the result of another of the many splits that have affected pretty much all organizations.



Thanks for sharing, TSD is not my area of knowledge by a long shot. So MDK did split to some extent at least for a whilee correct? Did Moo Duk Kwan originally have representation within Kukkiwon (i.e. The second unification)?


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## Dirty Dog

Spookey said:


> Thanks for sharing, TSD is not my area of knowledge by a long shot. So MDK did split to some extent at least for a whilee correct? Did Moo Duk Kwan originally have representation within Kukkiwon (i.e. The second unification)?



The Kukkiwon didn't exist until 1973 - a couple of _*decades*_ after the second unification. As far as the Kukkiwon is concerned, the kwan do not exist. The MDK was the largest kwan involved in the unification movement.


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## Spookey

Dirty Dog said:


> The Kukkiwon didn't exist until 1973 - a couple of _*decades*_ after the second unification. As far as the Kukkiwon is concerned, the kwan do not exist. The MDK was the largest kwan involved in the unification movement.



Can you help me better understand the "two unifications"... I consider the KTA (circa 1959) as the first unification and the Kukkiwon (72-73) as the second. Are you referring to the Korea Taesoo Do association of the early-mid 60's as the second unification?

How can 1973 be "a couple decades" after the "second unification" when TKD is only 60 years old? 

You kind sir are losing me.


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## Dirty Dog

Spookey said:


> Can you help me better understand the "two unifications"... I consider the KTA (circa 1959) as the first unification and the Kukkiwon (72-73) as the second. Are you referring to the Korea Taesoo Do association of the early-mid 60's as the second unification?



The first attempt at unification began prior to the Korean war in 1950, and collapsed during that war. The KTA was the result of the second unification movement. The Kukkiwon was founded by the KTA and didn't have anything to do with the unification movement. As far as the Kukkiwon is concerned, the Kwan are irrelevant.



Spookey said:


> How can 1973 be "a couple decades" after the "second unification" when TKD is only 60 years old?



Sloppy math. Several decades after the first unification movement. 14 years (or close enough to 1.5 decades as makes no difference) after the second unification movement. Sorry about that.



Spookey said:


> You kind sir are losing me.



I'm sorry to hear that. You will catch up, I'm sure.


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## Spookey

Dirty Dog said:


> The first attempt at unification began prior to the Korean war in 1950, and collapsed during that war. The KTA was the result of the second unification movement. The Kukkiwon was founded by the KTA and didn't have anything to do with the unification movement. As far as the Kukkiwon is concerned, the Kwan are irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Sloppy math. Several decades after the first unification movement. 14 years (or close enough to 1.5 decades as makes no difference) after the second unification movement. Sorry about that.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that. You will catch up, I'm sure.



The Kukkiwon was founded by order and demanded cooperation and unity at least in the Republic of Korea.


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## Dirty Dog

Spookey said:


> The Kukkiwon was founded by order and demanded cooperation and unity at least in the Republic of Korea.



Well, no, the Kukkiwon was founded by the KTA after they secured quite a lot of funding from both the government and the private sector.
The South Korean government has endorsed the KTA, and as such the Kukkiwon flavor of TKD is by far the most common in South Korea, but I don't think it's illegal to teach non-Kukkiwon TKD. As I recall, the South Korean government now basically controls the Kukkiwon, but that is a relatively recent development.
I don't know what you mean by "founded by order" to be honest.


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> Well, no, the Kukkiwon was founded by the KTA after they secured quite a lot of funding from both the government and the private sector.
> The South Korean government has endorsed the KTA, and as such the Kukkiwon flavor of TKD is by far the most common in South Korea, but I don't think it's illegal to teach non-Kukkiwon TKD..



It used to be illegal.


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> It used to be illegal.



Proof? You don't have the sort of credibility that would be needed for anyone to accept your unsupported word.


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> Proof? You don't have the sort of credibility that would be needed for anyone to accept your unsupported word.



At the very least ITF was illegal, perhaps not the other ones:

I would not try my luck and associate with a black listed fellow in a South Korea back then...

Rayners Lane Taekwon-do Academy Section 2

_"After the trip to North Korea and while the ITF instructors(mostly former non-commissioned Officer Drill Instructors) were training students in North Korea, instructors started leaving ITF because faith was lost in General Choi. *The more pressing issue was that, the instructors did not want to be blacklisted by the South Korean government by associating with General Choi and risk becoming a  North Korean/communist sympathizer" .*_


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## Acronym

That's what you call winning by default. But people can pretend that the KKW won the battle democratically.

It's peaceful now but it's too late for the ITF to come back.


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> At the very least ITF was illegal, perhaps not the other ones:
> 
> I would not try my luck and associate with a black listed fellow in a South Korea back then...
> 
> Rayners Lane Taekwon-do Academy Section 2
> 
> _"After the trip to North Korea and while the ITF instructors(mostly former non-commissioned Officer Drill Instructors) were training students in North Korea, instructors started leaving ITF because faith was lost in General Choi. *The more pressing issue was that, the instructors did not want to be blacklisted by the South Korean government by associating with General Choi and risk becoming a  North Korean/communist sympathizer" .*_



Nothing there about teaching systems other than KKW being illegal. Try again.


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> Nothing there about teaching systems other than KKW being illegal. Try again.



What does affiliating with a black listed person in a dictatorship mean to you if not illegality?


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> What does affiliating with a black listed person in a dictatorship mean to you if not illegality?



Doesn't mean anything. Cite a law, kid.


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> Doesn't mean anything. Cite a law, kid.



 Treason sympathizer, however that's expressed in law.


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## Acronym

I guess simply treason. Why make it difficult


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## dvcochran

Dirty Dog said:


> Well, no, the Kukkiwon was founded by the KTA after they secured quite a lot of funding from both the government and the private sector.
> The South Korean government has endorsed the KTA, and as such the Kukkiwon flavor of TKD is by far the most common in South Korea, but I don't think it's illegal to teach non-Kukkiwon TKD. As I recall, the South Korean government now basically controls the Kukkiwon, but that is a relatively recent development.
> I don't know what you mean by "founded by order" to be honest.


Definitely not. Most of the Kwans still exist in limited form. Mostly historically and recreationally.


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> I guess simply treason. Why make it difficult



So now you're claiming that teaching ITF TKD in South Korea is treason? Seriously? 
Come on, kid. Citation or retraction is the way to go here...


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> So now you're claiming that teaching ITF TKD in South Korea is treason? Seriously?
> Come on, kid. Citation or retraction is the way to go here...



No, old man. To align back then with General Choi was tantamount to treason.


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## andyjeffries

Here's an ITF dojang happily running in Seoul...

ITF-Korea - #INO462 국제태권도연맹 대한민국협회

I don't know if their instructors speak English. I can try asking any questions for them in Korean if it helps, but I'm only an advanced-intermediate/lower-advanced.


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## dvcochran

Acronym said:


> No, old man. To align back then with General Choi was tantamount to treason.


Does being TPOM mean so much to you that you are happy to repeatedly make yourself look utterly stupid? Because you are doing a Great job.


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## Acronym

dvcochran said:


> Does being TPOM mean so much to you that you are happy to repeatedly make yourself look utterly stupid? Because you are doing a Great job.



What does TPOM mean?


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## Acronym

andyjeffries said:


> Here's an ITF dojang happily running in Seoul...
> 
> ITF-Korea - #INO462 국제태권도연맹 대한민국협회
> 
> I don't know if their instructors speak English. I can try asking any questions for them in Korean if it helps, but I'm only an advanced-intermediate/lower-advanced.



Yes, it's not the 70s.


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> No, old man. To align back then with General Choi was tantamount to treason.



More unsupported assertions won't help.


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## Acronym

Dirty Dog said:


> More unsupported assertions won't help.



I won't do your homework for you. It's embarassing how you did not know that.


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## Dirty Dog

Acronym said:


> I won't do your homework for you. It's embarassing how you did not know that.



In other words, you have no support for your claims. That's pretty much what I expected.


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## dvcochran

Acronym said:


> What does TPOM mean?


Top Poster of the Month.


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## Dmitriy

I took taekwondo since I was a teenager in the USA. Now, I take karate with sensei for about 9 years. I am a red belt in karate atm. Thanks for the support!


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