# Where is your mind?



## gojukylie (Aug 8, 2003)

I am really interested in knowing where peoples minds are when they spar. What do you focus on and what frame of mind do you wish to adopt. Love to hear what you do now and what you aspire too.


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## KenpoGirl (Aug 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gojukylie _
> *I am really interested in knowing where peoples minds are when they spar. What do you focus on and what frame of mind do you wish to adopt. Love to hear what you do now and what you aspire too.  *



When I spar the same thing keeps going through my head.

:boxing: _MOMMY!!! _  :anic: 

Dot


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## cali_tkdbruin (Aug 8, 2003)

Since things are happening so quickly when you're engaged in full out sparring, I normally go on instinct, and act and react automatically to whatever is happening at the moment. 
I work on planning my sparring techniques, moves, attacks and counter-attacks during sparring drills. I try and carry that over to the actual sparring sessions since one usually doesn't have the time to be so calculating during the real thing.


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## cali_tkdbruin (Aug 8, 2003)

And, I might add that when sparring my primary thought is *DON'T GET KNOCKED OUT!!!* :erg:


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## KenpoMatt (Aug 8, 2003)

Funny you should ask this question. I was going to post a poll asking what most people focus on when they spar. Meaning, when you first face off, what do you look at? Head? Hands? Waist? Feet?

I used to look primarily at the waist b/c it seems that most motion begins there. Now, I try to look at a combo of hands & waist.

What do you think?


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## tkdcanada (Aug 8, 2003)

Cali...I wish I could do that.  I'm still stuggling with that - letting instinct take over.  I'm still at the point where I am trying to mentally keep up with what's going on and trying to force my mind to figure out what best to do in so little time.  We do drills and I understand them but have a hard time putting them in practise in sparring.  I know I will eventually get there with time and experience but that the most frustrating thing for me right now.  

So, that's where my mind is...thinking too much.


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## clapping_tiger (Aug 8, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Matt_IUP _
> *"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."*



:rofl: I love it, that is just too funny.

When I spar, I don't know what I am thinking. I go in with a game plan, and come out going....."what did I do." sometimes we videotape our sparring and when I watch it, then I see what I was doing.


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## D.Cobb (Aug 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gojukylie _
> *I am really interested in knowing where peoples minds are when they spar. What do you focus on and what frame of mind do you wish to adopt. Love to hear what you do now and what you aspire too.  *



I have only one thought, when someone makes a move as if to hurt me. It doesn't matter if it's sparring or real, all I can think about is *I AM GOING TO HURT YOU BAD!* 

I developed this thought process a few years back when I noticed I was going on the back foot, everytime I sparred. I was a bit like Cali, except mine was "don't get hit".

Which is a bit like the story of the coach telling his quaterback, we need this point! Don't drop the ball!
They didn't get the point because the quaterback did drop the ball.

--Dave

:asian:


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## D.Cobb (Aug 9, 2003)

Where in Australia are you situated?

--Dave

:asian:


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## stickarts (Aug 9, 2003)

To me sparring is play time and all about developing skill, not win/lose.
Sometimes it has been HARD play time!!


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## gojukylie (Aug 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Where in Australia are you situated?
> 
> --Dave
> ...



South East Queensland. And you?


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## cali_tkdbruin (Aug 9, 2003)

BTW, the last time I competed in a tourney, which was last October, I started firing my self up really well, and I worked myself into a frenzy ready to destroy any opponent they put in  in front of me... :angry: 

Well guess the F___ what, they ran out of competitors in my weight, age and belt category, so, they had to match me up against one of the students from my own damn dojang...  

If I'm gonna beat someone up, or they're gonna kick my ***, I don't want them to be from my own dojang! I don't want to see the person I beat up or ever see again the guy who beats my ***.

Anyway, when you scrap in an official tourney, one tends to turn it up a big notch. I came at my training partner all out, and he came at me. I drew first blood and racked some mean abrasions on him, but in the end he won on the refs' decision. WTF rules ya know, he scored the cleanest, most visible shots. 
Am I being a bad loser, or sniveler?  :idunno:  Well,  yeah, okay maybe so... :wah: 

Anyway, I felt bad afterwards, because I see this guy all the time at the dojang, and we train together, but I was really trying to take his head off at that tourney... 




:shrug:


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## Joe (Aug 9, 2003)

Sparring is my time to "play" .  So I have fun with it and try to incorporate technique, wether for points or knockout.  In my Dojo we wear normal protective gear plus a sheild, which allows to go all out without visiting the hospital if someone doesnt have proper control.


I agree w/cali-t takes away when we have to spar people we train with, i've been asked to compete  w/higher belts did better than I thought and probably prepared me better found a few weaknesses I didnt know I had.


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## jukado1 (Aug 9, 2003)

Gojokyle: good ? when i trained with Joe Lewis he emphysized  keeping your focas on the fight by using a point of view.  this means you don't let your mind wonder all over, gee: this guys big,  thats a cute girl in the 3rd row, the judges are cheating me,  or any other focas that is not related to the fight,  i've found the best point of view is to concentrate on control of distance, this keeps you focased on your oppenent, what your trying to do is keep your oppenent just out of range, but as he moves in or by your movement you brake in to range, you get off first, just as a snake has a distance it feels safe, when you cross its imagenary line it will strike, so should you strike as your distance is breeched


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## gojukylie (Aug 10, 2003)

I originally asked this question to see if any of you guys were in the same boat as myself. 
I have all of these ideas when I train, that I try and do to make my sparring better. Move angles more, use different block combo's, unpredictability, speed and fluidity. I thought that by thinking about these things my kumite would have to get better.  I was so wrong. It seemed, the more I thought about these, the less I performed them. I think the problem was that I was pre-meditating my responses and waiting for certain techniques to be thrown that eventually weren't. I had my self so technique driven that I became a robot whoes internal wiring got stuffed up.  

I decided to take a new approach. I would practise the techniques mentioned above so much more than usual and concentrate on technique. I would then go into the Dojo and become natural, relaxed and try and flow more. 

When I did this at first, I felt as though I was being sloppy for not thinking enough. So once again I was thinking too much. I can't seem to spar without intention. 

I know the road I wish to take whilst involved in Kumite, but don't know how to get there. That is why I posted the original question. I will continue to spar without pre-meditating and try and become thoughtless.


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## tkdcanada (Aug 10, 2003)

gojukylie,  

I have the very same problem - I think too much.  Seems to be a very tough problem to overcome, but I'll be damned, I will get it someday! I'm sure you will too!


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## IsshinryuKarateGirl (Aug 10, 2003)

When I am sparring, I mostly focus on the chest area.  If there is a kick being released, you will slightly lean back and if a punch is being released, the body will twist and move foward a little bit.  I learned this tip from a black belt in my dojo and it really works well.


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## gojukylie (Aug 11, 2003)

Karategirl, 

 Thanks for the tip. Do you think however that when you look into your opponents eyes, you can read their intention? Just a thought. I also would like to know if you spar with intention or wilthout any thought processes. Thanks for the reply. Ta


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## cas (Aug 11, 2003)

try looking at the eyes. Don't focus on them though.  
I think this is called looking at the tree but seeing the whole mountain?
I spar best when I'm not thinking. Thinking about the next attack happens to me all the time but these attacks never work unless there is a big diffence in experiencelevel.
Always try to think forward even when defending. Try to keep or regain the initiative. This doesn't mean you should always be attacking.
If you want to work on a particular attack or defence do that, if you want free-spar free spar. Take experiences from one into the other but don't mix the two too much. 
Sometimes I do quick a mental check off my stance or the position off my elbows e.g. But thinking about specific techniques usually don't work, for me that is. If I do want to try out something new I know I'm loosing initiative and giving it to my opponent because I will have to wait for a specific opportunity. So practising and thinking about techniques teaches you bettter sparring while not thinking provides the best sparring you can do now. 


Just some thoughts 

Casper


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## IsshinryuKarateGirl (Aug 11, 2003)

It depends on the situation if I spar with or without intention.  Most of the time I do, but if I'm sparring with a kid who's about 6-8, I'll go without intention and teach them a few things about sparring with a person who is much taller than you.  Otherwise, I'll just fight with intention unless there are circumstances of which I shouldn't.

Also, I don't think the eyes are a good place to focus on when sparring.  They don't give anything.  I believe and have experienced that focusing on the chest area is a much better way to predict your opponent's movement.


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## cas (Aug 11, 2003)

Hmm.. what I was trying to say I look at the eyes but my attention isn't focused on them. Most movement start in the hips. It's important to be aware of movement at this centre of gravity. But you don't neccesarily have to change the direction of your gaze (hope I'm using the right word here) to detect movement there. When the eyes are aimed at eyelevel (the horizon) you can still see something on the floor very close to the body (0.5m).
When looking at the eyes you should be able to see your opponents feet unless your fighting close in. 
Although the eyes often do give away intention (in my experience) I don't think this is the only reason to look at the eyes. 
where do you look at during kata?   
Have you ever noticed experienced karateka suddenly stepping to one side or the other to avoid coliding with other people when sparring in a busy dojo? Even when these people are behind them?
You can look at something but you never really focus your attention on it. You just react.

interresting discussion

respectfully,

Casper


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## kilo (Aug 11, 2003)

I tend to think some thing like this : Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap.  Is it over yet no.  Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap,Oh Crap.  Its over.


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## stickarts (Aug 11, 2003)

looking in the direction of the chest but opening up your field of vision to the whole body has worked well for me.
some nights i would go in to work on specific things, expecting i would eat some shots, other nights i would just work everything.
had good days and not as good days, but learned a lot so it was all good!


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## D.Cobb (Aug 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gojukylie _
> *South East Queensland. And you? *



South East Victoria.

Cranbourne to be exact

--Dave
:asian:


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## goju.glenn (Aug 17, 2003)

Simply, all over the shop.

We sparred last night as warm down and I don't think I've ever been so resoundingly "beaten" by people when sparring.

The problems with my mind when sparring are;

1. I have a "must win" attitude whilst I'm not really trying to "win".

2. Rather than letting the techniques flow by themselves, I get caught into a frame of mind. For example, trying a *predetermined* counter.

I enjoy sparring, even when I get smashed because it is what we train for. It's a great way of learning what works, what doesn't plus a chance to try something a little different.

:asian:


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## D.Cobb (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by goju.glenn _
> *
> I enjoy sparring, even when I get smashed because it is what we train for. It's a great way of learning what works, what doesn't plus a chance to try something a little different.
> 
> :asian: *



Hey, just what I've been looking for, Self Defense for the Masochist.

Seriously though, I think part of your problem would be your mindset, if you honestly believe, getting smashed 





> *is what we train for.*



Dude, I train so I am the one doing the smashing........

Better the *SMASHER* than the *SMASHEE*  

--Dave
:asian:


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## goju.glenn (Aug 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Hey, just what I've been looking for, Self Defense for the Masochist.
> 
> Seriously though, I think part of your problem would be your mindset, if you honestly believe, getting smashed
> ...



  

LOL. That did NOT come out right did it!!  

I should have said;

1. I enjoy sparring even though I am hopeless. Sparring is the culmination of all our skills into a single event.

2. I don't ENJOY being smashed but accept it as part of learning.


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## gojukylie (Aug 18, 2003)

Yes I agree. Being "beaten"( for lack of a better word) in sparring is all part of learning how not to be. If you havn't had a good smashing then you havn't experimented enough.


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## D.Cobb (Aug 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by goju.glenn _
> *
> 
> LOL. That did NOT come out right did it!!
> ...



I am sooo glad you have a sense of humour

I just hope that your lack of sparring skills, doesn't translate to a lack of self defense skills.

--Dave

:asian:


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## gojukylie (Aug 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *I am sooo glad you have a sense of humour
> 
> I just hope that your lack of sparring skills, doesn't translate to a lack of self defense skills.
> ...



I have seen this man spar and I think that he may be underestimating himself. I also think that as MA we are very hard on ourselves. Give yourselves credit where it is deserved.


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## TallAdam85 (Aug 21, 2003)

I realy don;t think just act look and see opens places to go for and attact the open spots.

Sorry could not help much


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## D.Cobb (Aug 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gojukylie _
> *I have seen this man spar and I think that he may be underestimating himself. I also think that as MA we are very hard on ourselves. Give yourselves credit where it is deserved. *



It's funny, I never even realised it, until now, I do that as well. I have often wondered why people do it, but never thought to ask why "I" do it.

I guess, we also need to remind ourselves, sometimes, that sparring and self defense are two totally different things.
Most importantly in that we can afford to make mistakes in sparring.

--Dave

:asian:


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## goju.glenn (Aug 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by D.Cobb _
> *Most importantly in that we can afford to make mistakes in sparring.
> 
> --Dave
> ...



LOL  . *Lots* of mistakes.


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## gojukylie (Aug 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by goju.glenn _
> *LOL  . Lots of mistakes.  *



On that note, do you find that if you make heaps of errors and you are getting beaten that you shut down, or that you wise up and improve. 
If I am getting a whollop, sometimes it is enough for me to snap out of it and sharpen up. But there are some days where the more I try the more I drown.


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## D.Cobb (Aug 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by gojukylie _
> *On that note, do you find that if you make heaps of errors and you are getting beaten that you shut down, or that you wise up and improve.
> If I am getting a whollop, sometimes it is enough for me to snap out of it and sharpen up. But there are some days where the more I try the more I drown.  *



If I try to think about what's happening and what I want to do, yeah, I get caught too. If I just let nature take it's course, then I find it a lot easier.

Though I must admit, I really don't like to spar. Luckily for me, we don't actually spar at our school. We put on our protective equipment and fight. Master Monea keeps a close eye on us, to see who is brawling and who looks like a martial artist.

My fighting ability is improving, but I'll bet my sparring sucks

--Dave

:asian:


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## cas (Aug 26, 2003)

Could you describe how you fight. I assume there are still some (unspoken) rules. Full contact? Grappling? do you hit/ kick the head, etc?

Casper


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## D.Cobb (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by cas _
> *Could you describe how you fight. I assume there are still some (unspoken) rules. Full contact? Grappling? do you hit/ kick the head, etc?
> 
> Casper *



We do restrict contact to the head, even though we wear full face helmets. All other strikes are used though. Due to the nature of our training(kyusho), we tend to attack targets in a slightly different manner to what you might expect. Rather than groin shots, we tend to attack the pressure points on the insides of the thighs, and such like. Obviously, neck strikes and regions similar in nature are restricted to the use of pain points rather than strikes. For eg. we won't strike St9 area with a percussive strike, but if our opponent tries to ground fight with us we will dig a thumb in there just to make life a little easier for ourselves.

Hope this helps.

--Dave

:asian:


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## Pacificshore (Sep 3, 2003)

I try to keep my mind from going on a "walk about" .  I work on letting things take place as it comes when it comes to sparring.  There's days when I'm on que, and others when I'm not:shrug: .


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## pknox (Sep 4, 2003)

I _try_ to keep my mind completely empty, and not bring in pre-conceived notions to what attack I think the person will throw.  That rarely happens, however.  Usually I end up being more clinical - looking at someone's shoulders, waist/hips, and knees, and trying to detect any movement.  When that happens, I react as best as I can.  I'm also looking at someone and trying to find weak spots for my own attacks.  When I "overthink" I tend to lose, so I'm working on that.  I guess that if you were listening to my thoughts, it would sound like a scientist processing data.


As for where my mind is now, it's on a sunny beach in the tropics, tanning and waiting for Tia Carrere to bring me another brew and some more fresh shellfish...unfortunately my body is here in rainy NJ.


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## gojukylie (Sep 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by pknox _
> *I try to keep my mind completely empty, and not bring in pre-conceived notions to what attack I think the person will throw.  That rarely happens, however.  Usually I end up being more clinical - looking at someone's shoulders, waist/hips, and knees, and trying to detect any movement.  When that happens, I react as best as I can.  I'm also looking at someone and trying to find weak spots for my own attacks.  When I "overthink" I tend to lose, so I'm working on that.  I guess that if you were listening to my thoughts, it would sound like a scientist processing data.
> 
> I hear you. That is pretty much the stage I am at with my sparring. I am trying hard not to think, not to pre-empt and not to have such big body movements. I am getting there.
> *


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## Scout_379 (Jul 6, 2004)

It is true! don't overthink when you fight, but tha can only take you so far! I have met with several world champions, NOT KIDDING, and they all seem to treat kumite with the same respect as a chess match (only fast-paced and with some deeper consequences 


 But seriously,
To really advance in kumite, you must think, you must deconstruct your opponent, find his/her weaknesses.  "Use Fakes and Feints," my sensei says, "and know the difference between the two"

Where is you mind?   Ever seen The Last Samurai?  I don't think your problem is one of overthinking, but in having too many thoughts at one time; "too many minds"  

Don't think about clearing your mind, just do it. Just let the match happen, find out what went wrong later, concern yourself with the moment, not before the attack, not after


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## Scout_379 (Jul 6, 2004)

gotta post more lol!

About knowing your opponent:  find out what attacks they like to throw, and counter it accordingly. Find out what they do when you fake, then don't fake with the same attack and trap them! Predict their actions and use it to your advantage, as above: CHESS GAME!! Every one can fight/(in chess know the rules), but the calm, intelligent one often wins out over the instinctive, fiery, fast one
I've seen it.


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## Scout_379 (Jul 6, 2004)

and done it


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## thepanjr (Mar 19, 2005)

When i spar i always think of food. Really i can't bear it. If i wear to spar a guy who runs at me i will be thinking of what to do. I got stepped on and kicked in the solar plexes:shrug:.Well food is really important tome that is why it is in my head.


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