# I don't talk to Aggressives



## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Aggressive - 'Can I ask you a favor?'
Me - No.
Aggressive - But you didnt' even know what I was going to ask
Me - Doesn't matter, I said no.
Aggressive - Man I'll give you these fists and put you in a choke hold!
Me - You want to do that in front of these cameras?
Aggressive - You can't defend yourself from me
Me - That's what you think
Aggressive - You think you're smart? You wanna fight?
Me - I don't wanna do that.

It goes on like this...
Eventually the aggressive person walks away.

(stepping and spacing is involved with this)


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## Flying Crane (Sep 16, 2019)

Do you have these kinds of interactions frequently?


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> Do you have these kinds of interactions frequently?


 
I would say yes, in comparison to most others. Not sure if it's my size or what (5'8", 120#)...In any case I even had two guys with blades drawn approach me earlier this year.


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## O'Malley (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I would say yes, in comparison to most others. Not sure if it's my size or what (5'8", 120#)...In any case I even had two guys with blades drawn approach me earlier this year.



Sounds like the neighborhood I grew up in. I miss home sometimes. Not today, though


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## frank raud (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Aggressive - 'Can I ask you a favor?'
> Me - No.
> Aggressive - But you didnt' even know what I was going to ask
> Me - Doesn't matter, I said no.
> ...


   That's a lot of conversation for people you don't talk to.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

what’s better than meeting aggression with aggression? Diplomacy. On this particular engagement the guy was putting his fists up and stepping forward. I could have done the same thing but then there would be more cause to fight and more explaining to the authorities. Plus I don’t want anyone to get hurt and I have a family at home to take care of. A bit of talk to de-escalate is better than fighter in my view. It’s very difficult to absolutely ignore someone when they come into your space.


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## pdg (Sep 16, 2019)

Sometimes your attitude to a first encounter can tip a person into being aggressive.

Me: Can I ask you favour?
Other: No (in a dismissive surly fashion)
Me: (In head, what the hell is this idiot's problem?) But you didn't know what I was going to ask...
Other: Doesn't matter, I said no (now starting to sound aggressive).


Maybe you need to look in the mirror before judging others as aggressive - especially when you're the common denominator in multiple instances...


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

So why're you refusing to do them a favour?....this supposed argument only started because you were rude. You could've easily handled that in a more polite tone.

"What's the favour?.....ah sorry mate I can't I have to be somewhere I'm late for work/meeting my wife/ whatever excuse."

To me you're making this situation way worse by your wording and your escalating it more than need be


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

So now I have to take care of another stranger’s feelings who is being a bully to me while I try to mind my own business? You both may be right about my tone and wording, but if was easy for me to be polite when I have been bullied and don’t want to take any more plus I consider my personal space to be important to me so when that is violated I take it as an act of aggresssion and I do not consider ‘being polite’ as necessary. I am more concerned with not getting injured due to letting my guard down.


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> So now I have to take care of another stranger’s feelings who is being a bully to me while I try to mind my own business? You both may be right about my tone and wording, but if was easy for me to be polite when I have been bullied and don’t want to take any more plus I consider my personal space to be important to me so when that is violated I take it as an act of aggresssion and I do not consider ‘being polite’ as necessary. I am more concerned with not getting injured due to letting my guard down.




It's not about caring about there feelings it's about doing the smart thing and walking away. The best way to do that isn't to be hostile it's to do anything you can to get away and if that means kissing there *** then kiss their *** it's not about ego in these situations it's about being safe.

For example.

"You can't defend yourself from me"

The best response to that would be something like.

"No I can't you're right you're way tougher than me, I don't wanna get hurt and I'm sure you don't want to take the risk of someone seeing and you getting in trouble. Let's just leave it here mate, have a nice day"

I've done that plenty of times. Pretend to be a total wimp to get out of trouble and appeal to their ego compliment them make them think you think they're tough and flatter them so they can leave you alone.


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## Martial D (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Aggressive - 'Can I ask you a favor?'
> Me - No.
> Aggressive - But you didnt' even know what I was going to ask
> Me - Doesn't matter, I said no.
> ...


How to pick a fight 101. You talk like you have a chip on your shoulder.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Martial D said:


> How to pick a fight 101. You talk like you have a chip on your shoulder.



I just mentioned previously that when someone comes into my space ‘aggressively’ I may not react in a ‘nice’ way. I wouldnt say that I have a chip on my shoulder but when I feel threatened or if my space is violated intentionally I may have a reaction due to the amount of times I’ve been hurt and bullied.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

I am not making any judgments but the guy was aggressive in how he approached me and no one here had my experience in this moment or leading up to this moment. It’s easy for you to make judgments about one post I’m just putting out there. I appreciate the constructive comments however.


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I just mentioned previously that when someone comes into my space ‘aggressively’ I may not react in a ‘nice’ way. I wouldnt say that I have a chip on my shoulder but when I feel threatened or if my space is violated intentionally I may have a reaction due to the amount of times I’ve been hurt and bullied.


Yes but according to your scenario they didn't approach you in a aggressive way they just asked you for a favour and you responded in an agreesive way that instigated a more agreesive response if you'd just played it off that aggression may not have happened. Especially since you didn't know what the favour was. Maybe the guy just wanted to know what time the next bus is. Or where the nearest takeaway is


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I am not making any judgments but the guy was aggressive in how he approached me and no one here had my experience in this moment or leading up to this moment. It’s easy for you to make judgments about one post I’m just putting out there. I appreciate the constructive comments however.


Doesn't matter what the approach was like the response still didn't need to match the aggression your lucky the guy decided to walk away. It very easily could've escalated into a fight with the responses you were giving. I've seen fights start for way less


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Also, how many of those that comment here live in a crowded city with so many shelters closing down due to lack of funding and other issues that cause people to live on the streets and approach people aggressively for panhandling or other reasons. How many of those people are violent and unpredictable? I am just trying to stay balanced through all of this and you do not know what issues I deal with personally or on what level I deal with them and please do not ask as I am not willing to discuss personal issues here. It’s easy for you as a martial artist keyboard warriors to make judgements but yeah I’m working things out and just looking here for some advice and discussion not to be judged but judge away and I will delete this thread. Sounds like a have a chip on my shoulder well maybe I do but is that wrong? I’m just sharing, I’m sure you are not perfect in every part of your life but I’m not judging.


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## pdg (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I will delete this thread



Yeah, good luck with that.


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Also, how many of those that comment here live in a crowded city with so many shelters closing down due to lack of funding and other issues that cause people to live on the streets and approach people aggressively for panhandling or other reasons. How many of those people are violent and unpredictable? I am just trying to stay balanced through all of this and you do not know what issues I deal with personally or on what level I deal with them and please do not ask as I am not willing to discuss personal issues here. It’s easy for you as a martial artist keyboard warriors to make judgements but yeah I’m working things out and just looking here for some advice and discussion not to be judged but judge away and I will delete this thread. Sounds like a have a chip on my shoulder well maybe I do but is that wrong? I’m just sharing, I’m sure you are not perfect in every part of your life but I’m not judging.


So people are giving you advice and you respond by calling them keyboard warriors? Yep there's that chip. I'm not perfect nor am I claiming to be but I've had plenty of experience. You don't seem to want a discussion because I know I have said nothing rude to you yet you are acting like You've been insulted. No ones judging you this is a martial art discussion page and you posted a thread so you've had people discussing it. What's the issue?

No one is perfect. No one ever has been no one ever will be there's no shame in that. But when people are giving advice you can either listen to it and take it on board or ignore it but no need to take it as a personal insult. No ones insulting you or judging you it's just a discussion


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## pdg (Sep 16, 2019)

The thing is @snake_monkey - you started the thread making a statement that very few agreed with.

There was absolutely no indication of an aggressive invasion of 'personal space', and nothing to suggest the initial approach was anything untoward until your response caused it to be so.

Then you tried to defend your position with your personal issues, and decline to share what they are. You don't have to share, but unless you do it's not a valid reason.

I hate people generally, can't stand them - but if someone asks for a favour I'll find out what it is before getting stroppy and abusive.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

I see a skunk or a raccoon on the street and I run the other way if I don’t have a stick. I don’t believe people are as civilized in today’s society as most would appear to be so a 5’9 175# human coming close to me and I’m unarmed? You best believe I have my guards up. Headhunter I liked your constructive comment. Others have posted just complete judgments and plus I get extremely defensive on the intranets sometimes.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

I had my head bashed into the cement ground repeatedly when I was still in high school I can’t remember three days of my life. Other incidents on top of that. I’m sorry I lashed out a bit here


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## pdg (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I see a skunk or a raccoon on the street and I run the other way if I don’t have a stick. I don’t believe people are as civilized in today’s society as most would appear to be so a 5’9 175# human coming close to me and I’m unarmed? You best believe I have my guards up. Headhunter I liked your constructive comment. Others have posted just complete judgments and plus I get extremely defensive on the intranets sometimes.



I'm not exactly huge (5'10" and sub 155) and plenty of people much bigger than me come near me all the time. And I'm never armed.

I'm not paranoid either, so I don't instantly jump on guard...


Oh, and an intranet is a private network that may or may not be connected to the internet - so you're defensive in private?


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

pdg said:


> I'm not exactly huge (5'10" and sub 155) and plenty of people much bigger than me come near me all the time. And I'm never armed.
> 
> I'm not paranoid either, so I don't instantly jump on guard...
> 
> ...



Thanks for clarifying that even though I was just trying to make things a bit lighter in here with some jokes but I get it. However if you are trying to make some kind of point that makes you appear ‘better’ than me it is not appreciated.


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## Martial D (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I just mentioned previously that when someone comes into my space ‘aggressively’ I may not react in a ‘nice’ way. I wouldnt say that I have a chip on my shoulder but when I feel threatened or if my space is violated intentionally I may have a reaction due to the amount of times I’ve been hurt and bullied.


Yes but in your scenario you escalate at every step, which seems to be the opposite of your stated intent.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 16, 2019)

Not a keyboard warrior. Dont feel like going theough my situation again, but simply put im smaller than you and have spent time in bad areas. Still do but in a different role. I used to get people who would be aggressive towards me, but when i changed my habits that doesn't really happen anymore.

And its not about worrying about the other guys feelings. It's about not pissing someone off, which could lead to a confrontation, when theres a simple way to _not _piss them off, that takes little to no extra effort.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Am I escalating or matching the energy? Honest question. The thing was eventually de-escalated so I would argue that I didn’t escalate, but that I matched. Its my first time posting about this stuff and it’s not easy fyi. Thanks



Martial D said:


> Yes but in your scenario you escalate at every step, which seems to be the opposite of your stated intent.


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## pdg (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Am I escalating or matching the energy? Honest question. The thing was eventually de-escalated so I would argue that I didn’t escalate, but that I matched. Its my first time posting about this stuff and it’s not easy fyi. Thanks



From the description given it appears that you escalated.

But even if you 'matched', that's rarely a good plan either, because then it becomes a natural escalation through contest.


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## Martial D (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Am I escalating or matching the energy? Honest question. The thing was eventually de-escalated so I would argue that I didn’t escalate, but that I matched. Its my first time posting about this stuff and it’s not easy fyi. Thanks


Guy asks for something.

What do you need.

Choose to help him or not.

Remaining polite the whole time.

That's how it goes for most people.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

Good points thanks for clarifying that. I’m not one to bring ‘energy’ into discussion but yeah I didn’t clarify that his approach seemed aggressive to me. People do this thing where it’s like they make it unavoidable to talk or just go on your way even if you are polite about it. I’m sure someone here has experienced this sometime.


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## Headhunter (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Am I escalating or matching the energy? Honest question. The thing was eventually de-escalated so I would argue that I didn’t escalate, but that I matched. Its my first time posting about this stuff and it’s not easy fyi. Thanks


You were extremely lucky it didn't. Obviously the guy didn't really want to fight. If you acted like that towards someone who's drunk or drugged up and looking for trouble they'd probably have punched you at about the 3rd or 4th stage. There's no need to match anything just avoid getting into a ego match


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## Encho (Sep 16, 2019)

Person I do not know - 'Can I ask you a favor?'
Me - Sure, whats up
Person I do not know - I need/ can I have/ Could you ____.
Me - I am sorry I would really like to help but I have to/need to go to/I don't have____.
Person I do not know-Ok, thanks anyway

Eventually the person  ask someone else/walks away.

9 out of 10 conversations work out like this when ever someone asks me for a favor.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Am I escalating or matching the energy? Honest question. The thing was eventually de-escalated so I would argue that I didn’t escalate, but that I matched. Its my first time posting about this stuff and it’s not easy fyi. Thanks


If someone's looking for a fight, then matching their energy is escalating. If you start at a 3 and they start at a 5 in aggression, you match it and raise yours to a 5. They feel it moving up and they up their own to a 7. Now you have to decide if you want to match it again or not. If you do, now you're at a 7 which is high enough for him to decide a fights in order. What's cool is, if you start at a 3 and he's at a 5, if you see his 5 and change your own aggressio. To a 2 (or even 2.5) a lot of times the other guy doesnt know how to react and it just dissipates his energy/aggression. It blew my mind the first time I saw that in action, I honestly didn't believe it would work.

Do you mean it's not easy deescalating, or not easy posting about it? Either way, i agree until you get used to it.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Do you mean it's not easy deescalating, or not easy posting about it? Either way, i agree until you get used to it.



I meant it’s not easy for me to post about it, but I also agree that it can be difficult to de-escalate certain situations. Thanks for your input.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

I really appreciate the Self-defense advice, as I work almost adjacent to one of the most dangerous places on Earth..The current 'State of Affairs' is not always on the bright side in the Heart o' the Midwest...I will try to glean the positive in all scenarios and I pray to increase my ability to learn. Thank you for the constructive comments and support.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> So now I have to take care of another stranger’s feelings who is being a bully to me while I try to mind my own business? You both may be right about my tone and wording, but if was easy for me to be polite when I have been bullied and don’t want to take any more plus I consider my personal space to be important to me so when that is violated I take it as an act of aggresssion and I do not consider ‘being polite’ as necessary. I am more concerned with not getting injured due to letting my guard down.


Part of Emotional Intelligence is understanding how your own actions contribute to situations. If you don't want a situation to become adversarial, then, yes, you have to consider the feelings of others. There are actions that can predictably make a situation more adversarial. Avoiding those actions is one way to reduce aggression by others.

As for bullying, I'm not sure I see the bullying in someone asking if you can do a favor.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

Martial D said:


> How to pick a fight 101. You talk like you have a chip on your shoulder.


Crap. I've agreed with @Hanzou and @Martial D in the same day. This cannot be a good omen.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I just mentioned previously that when someone comes into my space ‘aggressively’ I may not react in a ‘nice’ way. I wouldnt say that I have a chip on my shoulder but when I feel threatened or if my space is violated intentionally I may have a reaction due to the amount of times I’ve been hurt and bullied.


Could it be that you perceive aggression where it doesn't exist?


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

After reading over a bit, I would like to share another experience of mine: 

One person approached me and was leaning in close and coughing. He apologized if he made me uncomfortable. He asked for money, and we discussed his situation. I divulged some information for him. I said that I am a street performer looking for percussionists. I said that I can't offer him money but I can offer him a position for work. He didn't seem interested and left.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Also, how many of those that comment here live in a crowded city with so many shelters closing down due to lack of funding and other issues that cause people to live on the streets and approach people aggressively for panhandling or other reasons. How many of those people are violent and unpredictable? I am just trying to stay balanced through all of this and you do not know what issues I deal with personally or on what level I deal with them and please do not ask as I am not willing to discuss personal issues here. It’s easy for you as a martial artist keyboard warriors to make judgements but yeah I’m working things out and just looking here for some advice and discussion not to be judged but judge away and I will delete this thread. Sounds like a have a chip on my shoulder well maybe I do but is that wrong? I’m just sharing, I’m sure you are not perfect in every part of your life but I’m not judging.


You're right, we don't know what issues you deal with. But remember that neither does the person addressing you on the street. If you respond aggressively or dismissively, you may inadvertently escalate a situation. Try to see what it looks like (and feels like) from the other person's perspective - including the things they cannot know about you at the time. There's nothing inherently "wrong" about having a chip on your shoulder, but it serves you well to acknowledge the effect that has on your actions, and how others are likely to respond to those actions.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Good points thanks for clarifying that. I’m not one to bring ‘energy’ into discussion but yeah I didn’t clarify that his approach seemed aggressive to me. People do this thing where it’s like they make it unavoidable to talk or just go on your way even if you are polite about it. I’m sure someone here has experienced this sometime.


Let me try to draw some conclusions from what you posted. Let's say this guy came up looking shifty, like maybe he's trying to scam for some money. (That's not usually aggressive, but we might have some differences of usage here, creating confusion.) Yeah, you might rightly feel you don't want to deal with what he's doing. But the response you used is likely to lead many people (probably most) to feel offended, which is opposite to your aims (offended people rarely just leave you alone).

See what I'm saying about how your reaction affects the next step in the chain? Without that initial dismissive "no", you might have avoided the rest of the confrontation.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 16, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> After reading over a bit, I would like to share another experience of mine:
> 
> One person approached me and was leaning in close and coughing. He apologized if he made me uncomfortable. He asked for money, and we discussed his situation. I divulged some information for him. I said that I am a street performer looking for percussionists. I said that I can't offer him money but I can offer him a position for work. He didn't seem interested and left.


You messed up his script. He probably has answers for a lot of responses he gets all the time (including rude ones). He has no response for "I need a drummer".


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## snake_monkey (Sep 16, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Let me try to draw some conclusions from what you posted. Let's say this guy came up looking shifty, like maybe he's trying to scam for some money. (That's not usually aggressive, but we might have some differences of usage here, creating confusion.) Yeah, you might rightly feel you don't want to deal with what he's doing. But the response you used is likely to lead many people (probably most) to feel offended, which is opposite to your aims (offended people rarely just leave you alone).
> 
> See what I'm saying about how your reaction affects the next step in the chain? Without that initial dismissive "no", you might have avoided the rest of the confrontation.



Yes, I see exactly how that works and how the following result would be affected. I was operating under the pretense that by saying the word no, I was defining a clear boundary. To be specific the boundary was that I did not want to answer to any favors requested of me at that time.

I have learned from this experience and from this discussion. Thank you.


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## drop bear (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I had my head bashed into the cement ground repeatedly when I was still in high school I can’t remember three days of my life. Other incidents on top of that. I’m sorry I lashed out a bit here




Same but with vodka.


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## frank raud (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Yes, I see exactly how that works and how the following result would be affected. I was operating under the pretense that by saying the word no, I was defining a clear boundary. To be specific the boundary was that I did not want to answer to any favors requested of me at that time.
> 
> I have learned from this experience and from this discussion. Thank you.


The word "no" may define a clear boundary, but you continued to reply to whatever the other person said. As you were responding, you were not in control of the conversation or the scenario. That the scenario eventually de-escalated doesn't appear to have been due to you not talking to "agressives".


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## frank raud (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Yes, I see exactly how that works and how the following result would be affected. I was operating under the pretense that by saying the word no, I was defining a clear boundary. To be specific the boundary was that I did not want to answer to any favors requested of me at that time.
> 
> I have learned from this experience and from this discussion. Thank you.


The first "no"  never sets a clear boundary in a conversation or negotiation. Any salesperson who accepts the first no, wont be making sales. When dating, accepting the first no means you probably wont get laid much.. Think about this, if you saying no set a clear boundary, why did you continue to talk and engage with this person? If the boundary is not clear to you, how could it be to another person ? Your basic premise is you don't talk to aggressives, yet in both your examples, you do just that. Obviously, how you deal with Max and his wife Zelda from the great state of Kansas will probably be different than how you deal with a crackhead on the street. 
PS. I actually met Max and his wife in downtown Montreal when they were attending a Shriners convention. And yes, that is how he introduced himself to me on the street as he approached me.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Could it be that you perceive aggression where it doesn't exist?



I had taken 2 or 3 steps out of the revolving door before it felt like I was bombarded by this guy walking up on me, I wasn't expecting to be approached exactly as I stepped out of the building, if they had given me a few moments I would have felt more comfortable. It felt like I was being targeted and with all these experiences happening I have been getting more and more paranoid about being targeted. (I don't know if there is an underground community or if they are connected at all, but I'm having trouble shaking the feeling.)

Another recent experience: Someone who didn't seem like they wanted anything else but a fight touched me on my shoulder when walking out of a revolving door recently for no apparent reason, but it was intentional, as they watched me eye to eye walk through the door and waited to touch me, then made eye contact again and stared at me as they left.

Edit: seems like a simply mistake without all the staring in the eyes and upon approaching the guy this is what he said (that it was a mistake) however he continued to escalate the situation and I just left (I shouldn’t have even approached the guy but I was really curious why he did that)


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

frank raud said:


> The word "no" may define a clear boundary, but you continued to reply to whatever the other person said. As you were responding, you were not in control of the conversation or the scenario. That the scenario eventually de-escalated doesn't appear to have been due to you not talking to "agressives".



I simply couldn't think of a title for this thread.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

frank raud said:


> The first "no"  never sets a clear boundary in a conversation or negotiation. Any salesperson who accepts the first no, wont be making sales. When dating, accepting the first no means you probably wont get laid much.. Think about this, if you saying no set a clear boundary, why did you continue to talk and engage with this person? If the boundary is not clear to you, how could it be to another person ? Your basic premise is you don't talk to aggressives, yet in both your examples, you do just that. Obviously, how you deal with Max and his wife Zelda from the great state of Kansas will probably be different than how you deal with a crackhead on the street.
> PS. I actually met Max and his wife in downtown Montreal when they were attending a Shriners convention. And yes, that is how he introduced himself to me on the street as he approached me.



'No, sorry' could be better *shrug*


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## pdg (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I don't know if there is an underground community or if they are connected at all, but I'm having trouble shaking the feeling.



So would this underground community just be targeting you?


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> 'No, sorry' could be better *shrug*


Actually, would be significantly better. Almost anything that softens the "no" reduces the dismissiveness others will perceive.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

Thank all now I have a script for when someone asked to use my phone which was the favor asked in this case. (Sorry I didn’t share that earlier just didn’t come to mind).

Anyway My script is that I can’t lend it out to anyone because I use it for digital media production but I’m looking for drummers.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

pdg said:


> So would this underground community just be targeting you?



I’m not going to let a post like this feed me negative thoughts however I will say that the guy who was coughing and spitting on me as he leaned in while he spoke said that he has seen me a lot. I keep my eyes peeled and I had never seen him. I don’t have a lot to work with so this it’s definitely a stretch and trying to keep it in context.


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## jobo (Sep 17, 2019)

pdg said:


> So would this underground community just be targeting you?


some people are a lit more prone to this than others, its tied up with your mode of dress, your posture and your appearance in general, if one persons perceives you as a soft touch for a bit of intimadatioary  begging, then their a good chance other will come to the same conclusion


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## frank raud (Sep 17, 2019)

NSFW Some swearing.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I’m not going to let a post like this feed me negative thoughts however I will say that the guy who was coughing and spitting on me as he leaned in while he spoke said that he has seen me a lot. I keep my eyes peeled and I had never seen him. I don’t have a lot to work with so this it’s definitely a stretch and trying to keep it in context.


Some folks trying to create a false intimacy use lines like that. Nothing about it requires any kind of conspiracy - it can just be a lie.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Also, how many of those that comment here live in a crowded city with so many shelters closing down due to lack of funding and other issues that cause people to live on the streets and approach people aggressively for panhandling or other reasons. How many of those people are violent and unpredictable? I am just trying to stay balanced through all of this and you do not know what issues I deal with personally or on what level I deal with them and please do not ask as I am not willing to discuss personal issues here. It’s easy for you as a martial artist keyboard warriors to make judgements but yeah I’m working things out and just looking here for some advice and discussion not to be judged but judge away and I will delete this thread. Sounds like a have a chip on my shoulder well maybe I do but is that wrong? I’m just sharing, I’m sure you are not perfect in every part of your life but I’m not judging.


I lived in San Francisco for many years, with what is probably one of the worst levels of what you describe.  I have had very few, and very rare instances such as you describe. 

So yeah, I do know, I have been there.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> I see a skunk or a raccoon on the street and I run the other way if I don’t have a stick. I don’t believe people are as civilized in today’s society as most would appear to be so a 5’9 175# human coming close to me and I’m unarmed? You best believe I have my guards up. Headhunter I liked your constructive comment. Others have posted just complete judgments and plus I get extremely defensive on the intranets sometimes.


If I had a stick and a skunk or raccoon was coming at me, I would back down.  Especially the skunk.


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## Buka (Sep 17, 2019)

I wish you had all grown up in Disneyland like me.

(and don't be jealous of the shoes)


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## O'Malley (Sep 17, 2019)

*NO ONE IS AGRESSIVE, OKAY???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## snake_monkey (Sep 17, 2019)

So I was just walking down the street today with earbuds on (nothing playing). Someone asked me something, I took the earbuds out to pretend like I was listening however even so the guy was mumbling. I said 'Sorry, I can't help you'...He stared at me as I walked away.

I grew up in NYC (now in Chicago)...and was around this a lot, I just have felt like I'm in a pressure cooker in the area in which I work, and of course my methods have not always been correct, in this case I'm trying to correct my reactions going forward. Thanks all again, for the discussion. BIG THUMBS UP TO MT!!!


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 17, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Aggressive - 'Can I ask you a favor?'
> Me - No.
> Aggressive - But you didnt' even know what I was going to ask
> Me - Doesn't matter, I said no.
> ...



Aggression isn't just being physically aggressive.  Assuming that your statements about this happening a lot to you, I'd wager a guess that you're bringing a lot of this on yourself, with your mouth and your attitude.  That's another form of aggression.


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## CB Jones (Sep 17, 2019)

Concept that I learned and has worked for me over the years working UC.

At first contact, I mirror the persons level of aggression and/or attitude.  This keeps the other person from gaining initial control of the situation.

From there I can de-escalate or escalate gradually depending on what is needed.  Typically the person will naturally follow my lead.

So by controlling my levels I am actually controlling their levels as well.

Also when I lower my level if the other person does not mirror that is a good indicator that the person is either overly agitated or has bad intentions.

The key is I only de-escalate or escalate in increments and dont continue unless the person is mirroring me.

Just what has worked for me....thought I would share.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 18, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Aggression isn't just being physically aggressive.  Assuming that your statements about this happening a lot to you, I'd wager a guess that you're bringing a lot of this on yourself, with your mouth and your attitude.  That's another form of aggression.



Sure I really meant that it happens a lot to me that I’m approached with no easy way to remove myself from the situation without offending the person which I would consider a form of aggression within my personal space. I have posted different ways that I deal with it and apparently in my draft I came of aggressive. But yeah I was mirroring someone who came into my space and I’m glad it didn’t escalate.

The two guys with knives approached with blades drawn on a different occasion didn’t ask for anything they were just bullies trying to scare me they made fun of me for bumping into a post as I was up against a wall in a phone call and I was trying to get better spacing. The guy came within striking range and a told him that I wasn’t scared and he left (it was daytime). Almost no words were exchanged. Many experiences in the same area have colored my mind and ability to operate but once again I’m doing my best to learn from experience. This was one time and I will surely go back to my regular ways of dealing with unknowns.


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## snake_monkey (Sep 18, 2019)

Same guy is back in front of the building I witnessed him doing the same thing to many others in front of the revolving door and he even followed people in their tracks with an attitude when they refused. He has a friend with him. Building .Security is not concerned.


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## ShortBridge (Sep 18, 2019)

Is there another entrance/exit?


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## frank raud (Sep 19, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Thank all now I have a script for when someone asked to use my phone which was the favor asked in this case. (Sorry I didn’t share that earlier just didn’t come to mind).
> 
> Anyway My script is that I can’t lend it out to anyone because I use it for digital media production but I’m looking for drummers.


Why are you giving an obvious opening ( or two) to someone you don't want to interact with? I f they ask about your music or about drumming, how do you get out of it? If the intention is to shut down a conversation, why provide unnecessary information that invites additional questioning?


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## snake_monkey (Sep 19, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Why are you giving an obvious opening ( or two) to someone you don't want to interact with? I f they ask about your music or about drumming, how do you get out of it? If the intention is to shut down a conversation, why provide unnecessary information that invites additional questioning?



Good point - I’m just going to feel it out I’m pretty good at that when I’m relaxed


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## KenpoMaster805 (Sep 21, 2019)

If i were you i would walk away but when push comes to shove then heck ya ill fight ya 1 on1 buddy


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## Headhunter (Sep 21, 2019)

KenpoMaster805 said:


> If i were you i would walk away but when push comes to shove then heck ya ill fight ya 1 on1 buddy


Yes because that's how it works and you'll always be going 1 on 1


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## lklawson (Sep 30, 2019)

snake_monkey said:


> Sure I really meant that it happens a lot to me that I’m approached with no easy way to remove myself from the situation without offending the person which I would consider a form of aggression within my personal space. I have posted different ways that I deal with it and apparently in my draft I came of aggressive. But yeah I was mirroring someone who came into my space and I’m glad it didn’t escalate.
> 
> The two guys with knives approached with blades drawn on a different occasion didn’t ask for anything they were just bullies trying to scare me they made fun of me for bumping into a post as I was up against a wall in a phone call and I was trying to get better spacing. The guy came within striking range and a told him that I wasn’t scared and he left (it was daytime). Almost no words were exchanged. Many experiences in the same area have colored my mind and ability to operate but once again I’m doing my best to learn from experience. This was one time and I will surely go back to my regular ways of dealing with unknowns.


<sheesh>  Just ignore them, turn around and walk away.  Don't want to engage, then don't engage.  No muss, no fuss.


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## Buka (Oct 4, 2019)

I deal with aggressive people on a weekly basis, a lot of whom are drunk or high on one thing or another. But at least I get paid for it and am pretty good at diffusing things.

On my own time, if I get cornered into a situation that forces me to deal with aggresives I’ll give then one chance to allow me to gracefully back down. If they turn down that chance - I am too old, been doing this too long, and am too set in my ways to give them a second chance or to have even a modicum of patience with their BS - you eventually mature to the point where you no longer give a F and really, really don’t tolerate bad guys on your own time.


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