# JKD is the best right???



## jkd friend (Sep 21, 2006)

I truly know it is the best but I personally don't see it alot. Can any body tell me where I can see it in a tournament like setting.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Andrew Green (Sep 21, 2006)

Well, some might argue that mixed martial arts is JKD. 

To others it is a copy of Bruce Lee's system.

To others it is a collection of arts that should be blended (Kali, Wing Chun, Boxing, etc)

To say it is the best is meaningless, and to even try to call it one thing is rather odd.


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## exile (Sep 21, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I truly know it is the best but I personally don't see it alot. Can any body tell me where I can see it in a tournament like setting.




JKD friend, can I offer you some friendly advice? I have yet to see a thread that focused on whether some established fighting system was the `best'---or even `better than [name of some other established fighting system goes here]'---go anywhere constructive. As Andrew G. correctly says, it's essentially meaningly to ask whether X or Y is best/better---because (i) you can't make any judgments about these systems in the abstract (well, you _can_, but unless everyone shares the same criteria for evaluation, you're not going to get anything like consensus, ever) and (ii) you can't judge it by on-the-ground results because in any given contest, the participants demonstrating X and Y respectively would have to have perfectly equal fighting ability---and how likely is that?? Since it's just as likely that the winning X-fighter won because s/he was just _better_ than the losing Y fighter, you can't draw any conclusions about X and Y themselves from the outcome of the match. This point has been made on a hundred different MT threads... 

The issue of whether JKD `itself' appears in tournaments is separate, and also problematic (Inosanto doesn't look to me anything like Lee when they execute MA moves, but both are doing JKD). The main point is, it's not going to be productive to start your query with a statement which has a good chance of turning into an unresolvable and eventually angry quarrel. We get into enough trouble with the mods as it is! ;-)


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## jkd friend (Sep 21, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> Well, some might argue that mixed martial arts is JKD.
> 
> To others it is a copy of Bruce Lee's system.
> 
> ...


 


I mean no harm but sifu bruce lee said to have no form is the way to assume all forms and the same with styles so how can disrespect someone by saying JKD IS THE BEST but sorry anyway


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## exile (Sep 21, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I mean no harm but sifu bruce lee said to have no form is the way to assume all forms and the same with styles so how can disrespect someone by saying JKD IS THE BEST but sorry anyway



It's not a matter of disrespecting anyone. The problem is that the statement you made---`JKD is the best'---is _in principle_ impossible to verify---how would you do it?? The fact that Bruce Lee said something hardly makes it true, right?---maybe he was mistaken! But even if he _were_ right, does that necessarily translate into superiority between systems? Lee's style was based heavily on Chinese fighting systems (and I believe that he also had done some TKD); Danny Inosanto's foundational fighting sytems are Filipino MAs. But both are JKD, right? It's entirely conceivable that if circumstances had been a bit different, the inheritor of Lee's mantle would have been someone else, a Tang Soo Do practitioner ( or Goju Ryu or...) Lee, as I understand him, regarded JKD as an _approach_, not a separate system unto itself. I think, based on his own writings. that he would have been the very last person to accept the validity of any claim that any one system is better than any other system, regardless of what those systems were.


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## jkd friend (Sep 21, 2006)

I say this only because JKD includes so many things it's not that it is over all but that it is all in a sense-------------------------------------------------------------------------jkd friend----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## exile (Sep 21, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I say this only because JKD includes so many things it's not that it is over all but that it is all in a sense



But you know, a lot of people in the `classical striking arts', e.g. various varieties of karate/TKD, believe that if kata are correctly interpreted, and if those interpretations then guide the MAist's training, those classical systems also contain a much larger number of things than is generally taught. What I think is the heart of the matter is not the technical content of the system, which for any of these classical arts is too rich to be mastered in a single lifetime, but how one trains in it and how far practitioners are willing to push their investigation into the resources of their art to discover the fighting method it offers at _all_ ranges of combat.


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## arnisador (Sep 21, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I say this only because JKD includes so many things it's not that it is over all but that it is all in a sense



How people do JKD varies a lot. For some there's a heavier boxing influence, for others more Kali, and so on...it depends.


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## matt.m (Sep 21, 2006)

You guys are bringing up some great points.   Kudos to all who have posted before me.  Look, the way I can decide what is best is to do the following:  What do you want to learn, how do you want to go about learning, what art incorporates what you want?  The best art is in and of itself contradictory, in fact the best art is the art that is best suited for the practioner taking part in the arts cirriculum.

Recently, I had to retire from hapkido for medical reasons.  I will never formally partake in hapkido class sessions again.  So to me hapkido is not the best art.  It is highly effective due to a broad spectrum of cirriculum however, I cannot practice it any longer.

Now, the perfect art to me is Tae Kwon Do.  I can participate in that art and partake in it's cirriculum, which I have been doing so for some time.  

Everyone get my point?


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## exile (Sep 21, 2006)

matt.m said:


> You guys are bringing up some great points.   Kudos to all who have posted before me.  Look, the way I can decide what is best is to do the following:  What do you want to learn, how do you want to go about learning, what art incorporates what you want?  The best art is in and of itself contradictory, in fact the best art is the art that is best suited for the practioner taking part in the arts cirriculum.



Yes, absolutely! There's no question that there may be one art that's optimal _for a given practitioner_---and that's really the only sense in which the notion of `best art' can be meaningful.



matt.m said:


> Recently, I had to retire from hapkido for medical reasons.  I will never formally partake in hapkido class sessions again. So to me hapkido is not the best art.  It is highly effective due to a broad spectrum of cirriculum however, I cannot practice it any longer.



Ouch... I'm really sorry to hear that, Matt. 



matt.m said:


> Now, the perfect art to me is Tae Kwon Do.  I can participate in that art and partake in it's cirriculum, which I have been doing so for some time.
> 
> Everyone get my point?



Yes, and you're right on target. It's just too bad that you were kind of forced out of your first chosen art for reasons totally beyond your control... but at least TKD was available to you. That's a nice bit of `silver lining'.


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## zDom (Sep 21, 2006)

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. _Hapkido_ is best.

Just ask me.


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## still learning (Sep 21, 2006)

Hello, The best is not about styles,system,.....it is the individuals who trains hard ,becomes best at what they do.

If you are talking about what schools offer the best training for self-defense?    again it is what each individual takes from the training and is able to apply them.

No two fights will be the same,no  two attacks will be the same, each time may require a different self-defense....if you train very hard and practice daily...any MA system will/can work to save you.

So far learning to running away usually works.....along as you can out run the attacker.  

If a bear is charging you and your friend....(all you need to do is out run your friend!) 

Learn to run "my friend"..........Aloha


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## bigfighter16 (Sep 21, 2006)

You guy are right, there is no such thing as the best martial art. I am a major fan of JKD and also a new student of JKD. But it all depends on the person.


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## exile (Sep 21, 2006)

bigfighter16 said:


> You guy are right, there is no such thing as the best martial art. I am a major fan of JKD and also a new student of JKD. But it all depends on the person.



It's really strange how complicated everything gets so quickly. No one seems able to agree on anything. I was looking over a JKD thread earlier today where someone (probably working for the publisher) was using MT to push a lot of hype about what Bruce Lee `really' thought, etc. etc., the effect of which was to make it seem as though JKD was just another martial style of the usual kind. Fortunately, a lot of good heads jumped on the post and the discussion made it clear that Lee had always thought of JKD as an _approach_ to combat which, just as you say, depended a lot on the particular fighter and his/her strategy and the tactics used to back up that strategy (though BL's personal implementation was obviously influenced by Chinese MAs primarily). But there is this temptation to rank MAs in absolute terms... my little boy is nine and keeps asking me stuff like, was Beethoven greater than Mozart? I try to get across to him that at that level of genius, the notion of `greater than' doesn't mean anything. I guess my view of the MAs is similar. _All_ of these arts are brilliant and it doesn't mean anything to rank them... compare and contrast, sure. But `better'????


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## Robert Lee (Sep 23, 2006)

Any type of self defence training. Is a step to learning. Structured training. The street fighter with no training learned from what they did in a fight. A big key is having the heart to go on. with out this you fail. No one art has all the answers. or even close. Each art has a method to train by some seem more realistic in method some do not. But in the end what you can do and how you can apply it .That is what is to be counted on. Skill times heart thats seperates many people. With both you can effectively handle yourself in a fight situation Often people find there self with structured knowledge they can not apply because its not instinictive knowledge That is not skill that is more or less programed knowledge. So to look at any style and say this is the best is not seeing that only you can take from the method what you can get working for you. that part has but one name the name is you Say you have trained the JKD method it has certion structures to its learning. Then you absorbed keys that improved yourself towards a better way of defending your self. That is really not any longer JKD its you how you can use the given tools you absorbed no name at all anymore. Yes you continue to train JKD it helps to hone and improve your base. But when ever you ever need your tools you simply just use them and hopefuly have the heart to effectively get them working. End goal to any M/A is you the person not the name of a art.


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## zDom (Sep 23, 2006)

zDom said:


> I'm sorry but you are mistaken. _Hapkido_ is best.
> 
> Just ask me.



Since somebody obviously took my comment seriously enough to send me (unsigned) negative rep  , I'll come out and say it: it was a self-deprecating joke meant to convey that there are a lot of people out there that think their martial art is the best.

The truth is I don't think there is a "best" martial art.

IMO, it is up to each individual to determine what art is best for them. And for most areas that don't have dozens of schools around, it often comes down to "what is the best available."


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## DeLamar.J (Sep 23, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I truly know it is the best but I personally don't see it alot. Can any body tell me where I can see it in a tournament like setting.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think the JKD philosophy is great, but to say it is the best way, would be going against its philosophy. To say it is the best, and the only way, would close a persons mind to much.


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## exile (Sep 23, 2006)

zDom said:


> Since somebody obviously took my comment seriously enough to send me (unsigned) negative rep  , I'll come out and say it: it was a self-deprecating joke meant to convey that there are a lot of people out there that think their martial art is the best.
> 
> The truth is I don't think there is a "best" martial art.
> 
> IMO, it is up to each individual to determine what art is best for them. And for most areas that don't have dozens of schools around, it often comes down to "what is the best available."



zDom, the humerous intent of your post would have been obvious even if you _hadn't_ put in the nudge-nudge-wink-wink emoticon to drive the ironic point home. Someone made a serious error of judgment in taking your note the wrong way. So I'm going to try to do my bit to compensate for them by giving you a positive rep; maybe some of the other readers on this thread would join me?


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## exile (Sep 23, 2006)

DeLamar.J said:


> I think the JKD philosophy is great, but to say it is the best way, would be going against its philosophy.



That's it in a nutshell.


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## arnisador (Sep 23, 2006)

exile said:


> maybe some of the other readers on this thread would join me?



As opposed to the alternative, which is not treating it as a thread for jokes and complaints about reputation but instead using it to talk about JKD?


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## zDom (Sep 24, 2006)

arnisador said:


> As opposed to the alternative, which is not treating it as a thread for jokes and complaints about reputation but instead using it to talk about JKD?



Not complaining, and I am not seeking positive rep reimbursement (but thanks, exile: I appreciate it.)

I simply observed that someone misunderstood my intent enought to send negative rep. Then I re-stated my point without humor to clear up misunderstandings.

A point can be made with gentle humor as well as by dry point-by-point rebuttal. Not exactly the same as "treating it as a thread for jokes."

This is a friendly forum, right?


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## jkd friend (Sep 26, 2006)

If know style is the best style then why were so many masters improving and off branching styles to call them their own and being who we are as human-beings we my say this is better than that but we aslo have different meanings of what the best means. Yet and still MA is better than self producing fighting skill but some say there is Know greater art than the other. So if their is know best art than to me someone who is unskilled in the arts is of equal to someone of the arts. In any case we all chose what is best for us and to chose what is best for yourself in essense is to chose the best because the fact of the matter is the simple truth, TO BE THE BEST IS TO GET CLOSER TO PERFECTION. That is the main reason to get better because to have no limitations as limitations is a indefinite search to get closer to perfection. So I will and can say that JKD is the best to me because it assumes all forms by having no form, so to me that is getting closer to perfection the indefinite persue!------------------------------------------jkd friend------------------------------


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## Flatlander (Sep 26, 2006)




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## exile (Sep 26, 2006)

jkd friend said:


> I will and can say that JKD is the best to me because it assumes all forms by having no form, so to me that is getting closer to perfection the indefinite persue!------------------------------------------jkd friend------------------------------



No quarrel. It's good that you feel that the approach to MA you're pursuing is the best for _for you_. Just bear in mind that a lot of people feel the same way about their own MA, and their reasons for their choice and yours for your choice are equally valid.


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## g-bells (Oct 21, 2006)

to say jkd is the best may be wrong but if that's how you feel then that's how you feel. i chose to train in jkd because you can make it your own. experiment and learn from other forms. there is no best way but to find ones own way. i see jkd as a foundation on to which add. you can concentrate , say on, grappling, boxing, modified wing chun,kali, etc. and never master all.as good as you may get there will always be an area that can be improved on. hope this helps and it doesn't sound to corny.


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## gino (Nov 2, 2007)

zDom said:


> I'm sorry but you are mistaken. _Hapkido_ is best.
> 
> Just ask me.


whos is this guy steven segal? get the f... outta here...  who or where have you ever seen hapkido useful?  pls I waana know...


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## zDom (Nov 6, 2007)

gino said:


> whos is this guy steven segal? get the f... outta here...  who or where have you ever seen hapkido useful?  pls I waana know...



FWIW, Steven Seagal does AIKIDO.

I have seen hapkido prove useful first hand in self defense, if that is what you are asking. Are you looking for specific anecdotes? Or are you the type that requires video verification?

Being a "do" art, hapkido also has manifold benefits that are made apparent over the years on many levels.

And I can't help but wonder: do you REALLY want to know? Or are you just naysaying something you know absolutely nothing about? Either way, I would be happy to educate you as best I can in text, but the BEST way would be to participate in a class.

But this is ALL way off topic -- perhaps we could take this all up in another thread?


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