# Why can't you help someone anymore?



## shesulsa (Apr 26, 2005)

So I'm standing in line at the grocery store the other day and this poor young woman is trying to hold a toddler in one arm and unload her bursting basket with the other hand.  Having been there, I popped over and said, "need help with that?" and started unloading her basket onto the conveyor.  She looked at me like I was crazy.  So I said, "I've had three kids and I remember wishing someone would just help me a little bit, ya know?" So I got most of her stuff onto the conveyor until her toddler could fit safely into the basket and she could get the rest.  Even when she said "thank you," she looked like she thought I was utterly insane.  She completely avoided me afterwards and seemed to shrink from me.

 I suppose she might have some kind of history or something, but ... dammit, why can't we help each other out anymore?  Have manners and kindness gone so far out the window we can't extend common courtesy any longer?

 I'm just a crazy old lady now, I suppose.


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## Simon Curran (Apr 26, 2005)

I know how you feel,

On my way down to training the other night, an elderly lady was quite obviously struggling with a large amount of shopping and no carrier bag, just as I approached she dropped some of it, which I bent down to pick up for her.
Not only did she not say thanks, she actually told me quite forcibly to leave it be...
Some people...


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## Jade Tigress (Apr 26, 2005)

It's too bad you can't help someone out these days just to be nice. My guess is that with so many warnings about scams and cons people are suspicious of any kind act. Don't take it personally and keep helping when you can. I'm sure that afterwards your help makes the person grateful then they realize they weren't taken advantage of in some way and aren't missing any property. Sadly, it's the state of our society that we have to be so cautious all the time. But as long as random acts of kindness continue to show up there is hope!


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## elder999 (Apr 26, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> So I'm standing in line at the grocery store the other day and this poor young woman is trying to hold a toddler in one arm and unload her bursting basket with the other hand. Having been there, I popped over and said, "need help with that?" and started unloading her basket onto the conveyor. She looked at me like I was crazy. So I said, "I've had three kids and I remember wishing someone would just help me a little bit, ya know?" So I got most of her stuff onto the conveyor until her toddler could fit safely into the basket and she could get the rest. Even when she said "thank you," she looked like she thought I was utterly insane. She completely avoided me afterwards and seemed to shrink from me.
> 
> I suppose she might have some kind of history or something, but ... dammit, why can't we help each other out anymore? Have manners and kindness gone so far out the window we can't extend common courtesy any longer?
> 
> I'm just a crazy old lady now, I suppose.


At least you're an attractive caucasian woman:you can go ahead and think she's crazy! 

I've about given up on helping less than desperate strangers....
....being a somewhat menacing appearing, large swarthy male of visually indeterminate ethnic origin myself, I actually had a woman screaming bloody murder-for the _manager and the cops_- last time I tried the very same thing in the very same situation. I hadn't even offered to "hold her kid."

I also drive a fairly isolated stretch of road to and from work: I live in the Santa Fe National Forest, in the Jemez Mountains west of Los Alamos, NM. Tourists break down all the time, and cell phones typically don't work out that way. I just stop, roll down my window and offer to call when I get to the house-don't want to scare anyone silly, or maybe get shot!

On the other hand, what with pregnant women being kidnapped and murdered for the babies inside them, it's no wonder we can't help each other: we're too busy being righteously scared.


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## oldnewbie (Apr 26, 2005)

You know, if you watch the new, or listen to the radio, you will see that the "bad guys" are using the same "acts of kindness" to perpetuate their crap on people. So, therefore, it is not to outlandish to see strangers being cautious.

 In your paticular situation, her response was a little over the edge...just a little though.

 You know it's funny, we teach our kids not to talk to strangers, could it be that she grew up thinking the same thing?

 With all the recent crap here is Florida with the predators, etc., I think I would look long and hard a someone who just tried to "help"...but on the other hand no one ever does with me.. my wife says it's the permanant scowl on my face...:idunno:


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## terryl965 (Apr 26, 2005)

I suppose she might have some kind of history or something, but ... dammit, why can't we help each other out anymore? Have manners and kindness gone so far out the window we can't extend common courtesy any longer?

I'm just a crazy old lady now, I suppose

Shesulsa, In todays world people have forgotton how to help, when someone try's they always look at you like your an idiot. Myself try to hold doors open for lady's and older adult but most of the time I get I have it.The world would be a better place if people was tought etiquete and compassion, insteed we teach how to be in a hurry and get there faster and it does not matter what other people think well it is wrong in my life I need to stop and smell the roses once in a while, just two weeks ago we was at Texas state tournament and my son Zachary was trying to talk to this other young man and the 11 year old told him he could not talk and told his instructor that my son was trying to get valuable info. all he did was ask where are you from, like they have some type of secret MA training need \less to say mt\y saon beat him and all that kid said was Zachary cheated because he was asking him questions.
It's a sad sad world when we can't even talk to each other.


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## Makalakumu (Apr 26, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> So I'm standing in line at the grocery store the other day and this poor young woman is trying to hold a toddler in one arm and unload her bursting basket with the other hand.  Having been there, I popped over and said, "need help with that?" and started unloading her basket onto the conveyor.  She looked at me like I was crazy.  So I said, "I've had three kids and I remember wishing someone would just help me a little bit, ya know?" So I got most of her stuff onto the conveyor until her toddler could fit safely into the basket and she could get the rest.  Even when she said "thank you," she looked like she thought I was utterly insane.  She completely avoided me afterwards and seemed to shrink from me.
> 
> I suppose she might have some kind of history or something, but ... dammit, why can't we help each other out anymore?  Have manners and kindness gone so far out the window we can't extend common courtesy any longer?
> 
> I'm just a crazy old lady now, I suppose.



Our society is so cut off socially that I think that alot of us get depressed from this.  This concept of the nuclear family is a direct result of the unsustainable, frenetic pace that we live our lives.  In the US many people are so wealthy and so used to wasting that people think that they really don't need anyone else.

This kind of stuff pisses me off because it's so hard to get away from it.  In my opinion, we could all use a dose of poverty in order to learn how to reconnected, depend on each other, trust each other, and share!

*gets off the soapbox*

upnorthkyosa


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## Bammx2 (Apr 26, 2005)

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> This kind of stuff pisses me off because it's so hard to get away from it. In my opinion, we could all use a dose of poverty in order to learn how to reconnected, depend on each other, trust each other, and share!
> 
> *gets off the soapbox*
> 
> upnorthkyosa


AMEN!!

Being from the south,where everybody is polite(well...more so than other places) 
and now living in the UK...the supposed "more culturaly tolerant capital"(ACK!)
 I have found a new game to play and keeps me smiling.....
it's called BE POLITE!
95% of the people here flip out when you are polite to them!
And comming from an american?!?!  ooowee!
They are waiting for a gun at that point!
 I have been told to get.......bent
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 just for saying "yes ma'am" or holding a door open for someone.
I just smile and tell them its a new exchange program....
I imported manners to see how "culturally tolerant" they really are


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## Gemini (Apr 26, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> AMEN!!
> 
> Being from the south,where everybody is polite(well...more so than other places)
> and now living in the UK...the supposed "more culturaly tolerant capital"(ACK!)
> ...


I look at it very much the same way. Otherwise, you get mad. The majority of the time I hold the door open for someone (which is quite often) they walk through like it was my job. Not a word, a look, smile or anything. I'm sorry but that's just plain rude. I look at them, smile and say "your welcome". Sometimes they say "I'm sorry, thank you". Usually they just keep walking. I understand how people can be a little skeptical, but it's to the point it's rediculous. Being POLITE is a fun game. It reminds me I'm not the worst person in the world....


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## shesulsa (Apr 26, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Being from the south,where everybody is polite(well...more so than other places)
> and now living in the UK...the supposed "more culturaly tolerant capital"(ACK!)
> I have found a new game to play and keeps me smiling.....
> it's called BE POLITE!


 Maybe that's part of my problem - my parents experienced WW2 in their teen years and were born and raised in Nashville.  Though they raised me in Southern California, lots rubbed off on me, I guess ... calling people Mr. this or Miss/Mrs. that, Sir and Ma'am, please and thank you, opening doors for others, etcetera.  

 Perhaps that's why I feel a bit uncomfortable when my children's friends call me by my first name.  

 I agree that we could all use a nice big dose of poverty to help understand what helping each other is all about ... also the value of being personable when you can be.

 I like to challenge others (especially my girl scouts) to do unexpected nice things like this.  A little means a lot in so many ways.


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## Gemini (Apr 26, 2005)

shesulsa said:
			
		

> I agree that we could all use a nice big dose of poverty to help understand what helping each other is all about ... also the value of being personable when you can be.


I think you're right. Let's try an experiment. Everyone here send me all your money and we'll see if I can still be as nice and polite as before.


j/k. I agree with your point.


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## Feisty Mouse (Apr 26, 2005)

shesulsa, I'm sorry you came up against this, which seems to be everywhere!  I'm a very non-threatening figure, and I still sometimes get the odd look or rapid walking away when I hold a door for someone, or help pick up items that they dropped on the floor.  It makes me sad - but I also see the same paranoias in myself, too, which I have to check when someone is actually being nice.

It's a sad thing when we all feel we must be so suspicious of others.  It seems like almost everyone is an "outsider", because our own social groups have gotten so small.


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## Lisa (Apr 26, 2005)

I get confused by people who don't accept random acts of kindness.  When someone opens a door for me,or holds one open while I walk through I always make a point of making eye contact and thanking them.  It is just plain nice.  We all teach (or a majority of us anyways) our children to say please and thank you, etc.  So where does it get lost?  Somewhere between being an innocent child and being an adult we become tainted and afraid of our own shadows.

Remember when you were a kid?  I remember taking off from home in the morning and not really returning unless I was hungry.  We played, unsupervised for hours and hours, without fear.  Now, people are afraid to let their children out of their back yards.  We fence them in, make play dates for them and generally don't let them out of our sight.  In this day and age we don't feel comfortable in our own homes and we take that with us when we go out in the world and we look at everyone strangely when they try to lend a helping hand.  Perhaps we are programming our children to mistrust everyone.


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## Shizen Shigoku (Apr 26, 2005)

Reminded me of this thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21478

All I can say is what I said then: 

"See. That's how they get you. First one person does something nice, then another person has to retaliate and do something nice too, and then all of a sudden all sorts of people are doing nice things for other people . . .

Oh what is this world coming to?!! "


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## Gin-Gin (Apr 26, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> shesulsa, I'm sorry you came up against this, which seems to be everywhere!  I'm a very non-threatening figure, and I still sometimes get the odd look or rapid walking away when I hold a door for someone, or help pick up items that they dropped on the floor.  It makes me sad - but I also see the same paranoias in myself, too, which I have to check when someone is actually being nice.  It's a sad thing when we all feel we must be so suspicious of others.  It seems like almost everyone is an "outsider", because our own social groups have gotten so small.


Very true, Feisty!  Last month (on St. Patrick's Day to be exact--guess I didn't have the luck of the Irish with me :lol: ) I got a flat tire on the way home after class & it seemed to take forever to change it (I was tired from class & it had been a long day).  Since it was 9pm, I waited until I could pull into a well-lit parking lot, which turned out to be the parking lot of a fast food restaurant.  I parked behind the drive thru sign & got out my tools & started to change the tire.  At least 6 or 7 people drove by & just looked at me.  None of them said a word, they just sat in their cars & watched me as they ordered their food!    Only the last person said anything to me which was, "Are you changing a tire?" _[Wow! nothing gets by you, genius..._ ] 

The thing is, as pissed as I was at them for their response (or lack of it) being a single woman, I also understand it because these days you do have to be careful. *sigh*


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## dubljay (Apr 26, 2005)

We all have had encounters with this, and it is getting worse.  I remember a couple of years ago I had just pulled into a parking lot to walk into a store when some one's car died at an intersection.  I crossed the traffic to help them push and all I got was a strange look and a barely audible "uh thanks".  I get odd looks when I hold the door for people... its generally depressing.


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## shesulsa (Apr 26, 2005)

Gin-Gin said:
			
		

> Only the last person said anything to me, which was, "are you changing a tire?" *[Wow! nothing gets by you, genius... *]


 :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## oldnewbie (Apr 26, 2005)

The last time I stopped to help someone, I was in high school, (I'm 42 now)
 It was an elderly couple, with car trouble. It was dusk, and I was looking under their hood, with both of them in the car, when all of a sudden I heard tires squeel, I lowered the hood and looked through the windows, to see headlights comming fast from the rear...
 I jumped to the side, had my feet clipped from the elderly couples car, and landed some 15 feet away.
 I was fine, the elderly couple had cuts and scraps from banging around without their seat belts, and the driver in the car behind us, broke her nose on her steering wheel.

 I was done with that.


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## Bob Hubbard (Apr 26, 2005)

I used to help but too many sour experiences have made me more jaded towards things.
I've held doors open for people just to watch them slow down, or even stop dead to avoid it while I was there.  I've paused to let someone merge just to have them flip me off as a 'thank you'. I've gone the extra step and snow blowed my neighbors walks and driveways, just to be repaid by them blowing their snow onto my clean walks the next time it snows.  I'm rarely surprised by the apathy, indifference or outright rudeness anymore.  People are too "self important", too paranoid, in too much of a hurry anymore it seems.  And, it sucks.


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## TonyM. (Apr 26, 2005)

I've been told to do something that's physically impossible on several occasions when I've held a door for someone. I find it amuzing and continue to behave like a gentleman.


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## Satt (Apr 26, 2005)

Gemini said:
			
		

> I look at it very much the same way. Otherwise, you get mad. The majority of the time I hold the door open for someone (which is quite often) they walk through like it was my job. Not a word, a look, smile or anything. I'm sorry but that's just plain rude. I look at them, smile and say "your welcome". Sometimes they say "I'm sorry, thank you". Usually they just keep walking. I understand how people can be a little skeptical, but it's to the point it's rediculous. Being POLITE is a fun game. It reminds me I'm not the worst person in the world....


LOL. That reminds me of one time I held the door for a small line of people (like I normally do) and the last person was this tall lady that just stopped and glared at me. She said "that is so typical. I am a fiminist and I can get the door myself!!! Just go inside!!!" So she refused to go in until I was in and the door closed to where she could open it again. I just laughed at it, but thought it was sad.

:flushed:


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## kid (Apr 26, 2005)

just the other day i was coming home from school sitting at a stop light when someones car stalled in middle of the intersection.  I waited a moment to see if they could get it started again.  When i didn't i put my truck in park with a row of cars behind me watching this unfoldbut not lifting a finger to help.  I helped the woman get her car to the side of the road and out of traffic.  while i was doing this people were honking their horns and yelling at me to hurry.  I just about came unglued, i mean if they are in a hurry they could come and help, i'm struggling to push a car up an incline bymyself the lady was steering.  I checked my temper and asked the woman if she needed a ride to a payphone.  She had a cell phone and said her husband was already on his way.  So i trot back to my truck get in it and realize she never even thanked me.  It's not a big deal i'm sure she had a lot on her mind at the time.  


kid


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## Lisa (Apr 26, 2005)

These stories are all very sad.  But rest assured there are those that really do appreciate the things that are done for them.

My husband, children and I were up in one of our provinicial parks coming back from seeing a bison sanctuary where we came upon a car  with a flat tire and three elderly people in it.  We stopped and my husband, seeing that the older and only gentleman of the car was having trouble, quickly helped him change the flat.  They were so thankful and so happy that we came along.  They insisted that we give them our address and they sent us a thank you card and some McDonald's gift certificates for the kids.  It was very uncalled for on their part but very kind.  Really warmed my heart. 

Maybe it is the generation?  Maybe because the elderly that never grew up worrying about their children out playing the street and looking at all strangers cynically have better manners and kinder thoughts of the world.  Unfortunately, however, they also become prey to those that are less than honest.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 26, 2005)

It sucks that when you try to be nice it is questioned.

I remember being about 6-7, and my mom was traveling with me and my brother, to just outside Elmira NY, from Flint Mi. We had a flat, I aksed why she did not ask for help on the CB. This being 1972/73 time frame. She replied that there had been warning on the CB about people showing up and attacking or stealing vehicles of those in trouble. So she did not call. She was trying to change the tire of a full size pick up truck by her self. (* Being 5'2" in shoes  *) I asked to help, I could not but I could watch out, as was my idea of being outside. My plan was to run like heck and cry for help.   Oh well. Well alongs comes this young couple on a date, and this guy pulls over and helps my mom change the tire. He would not take anything for his help and just smiled, and waved when he left. 

I have done similiar things myself, helping people on the side of the road, one similiar to my situation above, she over heated, and was low on oil. I had some old oil in the junker I was driving, and gave it to her. Something being better than nothing, and walked over to a nearby house off the expressway to get water. Told her to get to the next phone (* before cell phones *) and call her ex to let him know she would be late, with the child. The other time was in LA on the highway, A friend and I pulled over to help a middle aged African American woman and her Cadilliac that had a flat. We changed her tire to the spare and she insisted upon giving me $40, this was 1988. I put the $40 in her ash tray under some papers and coins, so she would find it later when she had to check the trunk one more time. My Buddy just smiled, and said that was the right thing to do. She gave us a ride back to our rent Mustang, about a half mile up the road. She told us this was a bad neighborhood to be alone and walking in.  

I have tried to repay the kindness of that guy and his girlfriend, many times. Some people accept it, others look at me and are afraid. 

I can only try,
 :asian:


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## Kempogeek (Apr 26, 2005)

I've had a few experiences that when both ways. Some thanked me and some didn't. Yes it's sad that society can be that way but I refuse to change my ways and stoop to the level of the ungrateful. That's my own choosing of course. I respect others who feel that being helpful is not worth it and I don't blame them. Too many experiences can do that. One instance that stands out in my mind is when I was on a commuter train to Chicago. There were a couple of women who got on and the train car was getting full. I was sitting by myself in a 2 seater and without giving it a second thought I offered the ladies my spot. They thanked me and I stood up for the remainder of the trip. Im sure the people in the car thought I was a either what a gentleman or an idiot. But I didn't care, I felt good about myself and IMO that's what matters. Best regards, Steve


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## theletch1 (Apr 26, 2005)

I've just read every post in this thread and one thing jumps right out at me...every one of us on this thread studies various martial arts, every one of us has had a disheartening experience with being kind to someone BUT we HAVE all at least made an attempt.  Do ya'll think that maybe the idea of helping others that most of us were brought up with is reinforced by the idea of "sooner or later we're all uke" that we have in the dojo?  I drive a tractor trailer for a living and have lots of opportunities to stop and help folks change tires, call for help and such.  I've been waved off after pulling over on the side of the interstate because (I assume) folks have gotten into the habit of thinking that all truckers are drifters who can't conform to society or get along with others.  I continue to stop when it's safe to do so, help when I can and always answer the question "What do I owe you?" with the same answer..."Just do something nice for someone else."  Kindness, tempered with common sense, is still the best policy in my eyes.  It's pity I try to feel for those folks that can't understand kindness from a stranger.


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## dubljay (Apr 26, 2005)

theletch1 I think you are partialy right about the uke thing.  As MAers we come in close contact with more people than the average person, and when we meet a fellow MA'er on the street there is an instant bond to be had.  After being in MA for so long it cant help but become a habit for anyone you meet.  

 Thats how I see it.

 -Josh


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## Simon Curran (Apr 27, 2005)

With regards to holding doors for people, I sympathise with those who have experienced ungrateful reactions, here in Denmark it just is not a part of their culture, it seems.

I am born and raised English, and have always been taught the importance of manners/chivalry (we aren't all tha same Bammx2, depends where in the UK you are) so I must admit this was one of the biggest culture shocks for me when I orginally moved away.


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## Bammx2 (Apr 27, 2005)

SIMONCURRAN said:
			
		

> With regards to holding doors for people, I sympathise with those who have experienced ungrateful reactions, here in Denmark it just is not a part of their culture, it seems.
> 
> I am born and raised English, and have always been taught the importance of manners/chivalry (we aren't all tha same Bammx2, depends where in the UK you are) so I must admit this was one of the biggest culture shocks for me when I orginally moved away.


Hey Simon,

You know I have met some great people here,or I wouldn't be here
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





But I do know what yer sayin.

Try this for "cultural education"....
High Wycombe,Morecambe,Hastings and Crystal Palace.
I have lived in all. Now you may know where I'm commin from


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## Simon Curran (Apr 27, 2005)

Bammx2 said:
			
		

> Hey Simon,
> 
> You know I have met some great people here,or I wouldn't be here
> 
> ...


Morecambe and Crystal Palace I know, and now I definately see where you are coming from:erg:


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## Makalakumu (Apr 27, 2005)

When someone is rude to me when I try to help another, I just remind myself that there were others who were thankful.  Therefore, if someone needs help, I'm going to help.


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## shesulsa (Apr 27, 2005)

HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL!!!

 Okay, so I go back to the same store today and erred in my math. My groceries rang up to $1.00 over what I had and thought I had spent. The lady in front of me (who had been rung up and was bagging her groceries) said, "Oh, I have a dollar!" and insisted I accept it. (I HATE taking money from people) I protested profusely, but she absolutely insisted and said, "Please." I flashed back to the other day and agreed. 

 After I packed up my own groceries, I helped her pack up hers and she tried to refuse also, but I said "Please, it's the least I can do - you helped me, I'd like to help you too." She agreed, we thanked each other, exchanged first names and a ladylike handshake. Turns out she's from Minnesota and has a good friend there named Georgia!

 Well, I like it when the universe/God/Goddess/fate/Buddha/What-the-f-ever taps you on the shoulder and thanks you for being kind.

  *Whistles off*


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## terryl965 (Apr 27, 2005)

Good for you Shesulsa, I'm glad to see good things come back twice folded.


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## lonecoyote (Apr 27, 2005)

If people aren't grateful, thats too bad, I'm doing the right thing anyway, not because I expect gratitude but because it's the right thing to do, because I get to look at myself in the mirror and know who I am. I got an extra $40 back at Albertsons the other day. I know exactly why I married my wife. She saw me count the change, and read my mind, unbuckling her seat belt before I got mine off. I know a large chain store can afford the loss, but the poor lady in there checking groceries all day, she might get reamed by her boss, have the money taken out of her check, or even get fired. By the way, she was very grateful, which felt nice, but it wasn't why I returned it.


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## oldnewbie (Apr 29, 2005)

Ya know, after re-reading my previous post I made it sound like I don't help at all anymore, when what I tried to say was I don't stop on the side of the road anymore...oh well..(what I think seldom comes out through my fingers well.)

 As other have said, I too don't really care if I am thanked, its about how I feel. I know what is right to do and I do it. I tried to teach my boys the same thing.. just do the right thing.. it all comes out in the wash later.......


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