# How different are the Wing Chung lineages?



## _JLC_ (May 21, 2013)

Hey all,

I've recently started practicing Wing Chung (just  4 or 5 lessons), and am loving it so far. I was curious about the different Lineages around the world. How different are the techniques that they teach? Is it subtle changes in technique, or more like a totally new version of Wing Chung?" My instructor is from the IP Man lineage, but am wondering how "universal" Wing Chung lineages are overall purely out of interest? 

Also, what exactly is Wing Tsun? I read somewhere that its Wing Chung, but they teach things in an "easier way"? I could be totally wrong here though!!

Thanks in advance for your replys.

As a side note, is it normal to get quite a few good bruises on inside forearms when you start out? And do you adapt? Mostly when I am getting blocked (throwing med-hard uppercuts/hocks in drills against Wing Chung).


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## yak sao (May 21, 2013)

_JLC_ said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've recently started practicing Wing Chung (just 4 or 5 lessons), and am loving it so far. I was curious about the different Lineages around the world. How different are the techniques that they teach? Is it subtle changes in technique, or more like a totally new version of Wing Chung?" My instructor is from the IP Man lineage, but am wondering how "universal" Wing Chung lineages are overall purely out of interest?
> 
> ...


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## Vajramusti (May 21, 2013)

_JLC_ said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've recently started practicing Wing Chung (just  4 or 5 lessons), and am loving it so far. I was curious about the different Lineages around the world. How different are the techniques that they teach? Is it subtle changes in technique, or more like a totally new version of Wing Chung?" My instructor is from the IP Man lineage, but am wondering how "universal" Wing Chung lineages are overall purely out of interest?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


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## _JLC_ (May 22, 2013)

yak sao said:


> _JLC_ said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all,
> ...


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## Vajramusti (May 22, 2013)

_JLC_ said:


> yak sao said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the information. I think the one I do is "*Ving Chun Kuen*", but I'm not entirely sure how that is different to the others?
> ...


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## J W (May 22, 2013)

Hi JLC,

I asked a similar question here when I first started Wing Chun a couple of years ago. Got some good answers and info, see the thread here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/98517-Varieties-of-Wing-Chun?highlight=


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## futsaowingchun (May 23, 2013)

_JLC_ said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've recently started practicing Wing Chung (just  4 or 5 lessons), and am loving it so far. I was curious about the different Lineages around the world. How different are the techniques that they teach? Is it subtle changes in technique, or more like a totally new version of Wing Chung?" My instructor is from the IP Man lineage, but am wondering how "universal" Wing Chung lineages are overall purely out of interest?
> 
> ...




I'm from the Fut Sao Wing Chun lineage. If you like to know more about it you can read more bout it at http://www.futsaowingchun.info or you can visit my youtube channel 

at http://www.youtube.com/user/sifumcilwrath


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## _JLC_ (May 23, 2013)

J W said:


> Hi JLC,
> 
> I asked a similar question here when I first started Wing Chun a couple of years ago. Got some good answers and info, see the thread here:
> 
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/98517-Varieties-of-Wing-Chun?highlight=



Thanks for the link! Good information on the lineages. Good reading.



yak sao said:


> btw  who is your teacher, teachers teacher and locations-then i will understand what you are doing better. thx
> ]



I'm in New Zealand. I'm pretty sure its... Yip Man --> Choy Siu Kwong (Greg Tsoi ) --> Kevin Earle --> Anthony (my Sifu). 

My Sifu is a great, and I woudn't want to change anything. I'm just interested in Wing Chung in general and how different it is in other places (and different lineages).


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## Zenjael (May 24, 2013)

I would not take too much pride in lineage. Even us Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do practitioners can trace our lineage back to Ip Man, and we aren't even a Chinese art! lol

In fact, let me demonstrate; I was taught by Master Khan who was taught by Master Lee who was taught by Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee, who was taught to punch by Bruce Lee, who was taught how to Kick in return. Bruce Lee was taught by Ip man, etc.

And all martial arts trace their linneage back to Bodhidharma, so it's kinda moot ^^.


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## clfsean (May 24, 2013)

Zenjael said:


> I would not take too much pride in lineage. Even us Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do practitioners can trace our lineage back to Ip Man, and we aren't even a Chinese art! lol
> 
> In fact, let me demonstrate; I was taught by Master Khan who was taught by Master Lee who was taught by Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee, who was taught to punch by Bruce Lee, who was taught how to Kick in return. Bruce Lee was taught by Ip man, etc.
> 
> And all martial arts trace their linneage back to Bodhidharma, so it's kinda moot ^^.



Bollocks. 100% bovine fecal deposits. 

Just because Rhee got pointers from Lee on punching in no way lays Rhee's TKD to Ip's Wing Chun.


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## Zenjael (May 24, 2013)

Actually, for about 30 years after their contact Vertical punches were a mandatory style of Chung Do Kwan TKD before they were reverted back to horizontal in certain schools.

And I am not talking about which style is better. Just that two different styles had an impact on each other. Jeet Kun Do would not exist (outside the philosophy) without the kicks Bruce Lee was Taught by Grandmaster Rhee. Just pointing that out. 

And ah, should you be taking it as a compliment that it was wing chun that finally taught some TKD practitioners to punch adequately without relying on forced addition of Karate techniques? Not saying they don't work, it's just the wing chu punches are more suitable for most forms of TKD than the Japanese variants.

And it was not a one way street- Bruce took pointers from Grandmaster Rhee also. Which is why their sidekicks, the JKD side kicks, and students descending from Master Rhee's school systems all kick the same.

When I get back from teaching today I'll post some links which give alternative view points on what I just mentioned. It'sa somewhat argued subject, even among TKD people out here.


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## clfsean (May 24, 2013)

Zenjael said:


> Actually, for about 30 years after their contact Vertical punches were a mandatory style of Chung Do Kwan TKD before they were reverted back to horizontal in certain schools.



And this means what ... exactly? 

The notion of vertical fist alignment places (in this instance) TKD in the Wing Chun line of Ip Man makes as much sense as the notion that because I play guitar on a nylon string at times, it makes me a student of the Segovia school of Spanish guitar.


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## Xue Sheng (May 24, 2013)

clfsean said:


> And this means what ... exactly?
> 
> The notion of vertical fist alignment places (in this instance) TKD in the Wing Chun line of Ip Man makes as much sense as the notion that because I play guitar on a nylon string at times, it makes me a student of the Segovia school of Spanish guitar.



Only if you play with long finger nails...if they are short or you use the pads of your fingers then it would make you a student of the Fernando Sor school of classical guitar


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## Domino (Jun 4, 2013)

Welcome, I would recommend you get on google/youtube and research.
There are over 300+ families in kung fu.


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## SamAbb (Aug 27, 2013)

Hi JLC,

Hope it's all going well. Good responses here, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

Many Wing Chun practitioners only speak of "lineage" within the Ip Man Hong Kong Wing Chun kuen system, which is actually the most modern and widespread, but it doesn't make it "Wing Chun" the-one-and-only. There are many older, smaller systems only taught in private pockets inside and outside China. Hard to find, but some real gems of information can be found in some of the (legitimate) older systems if you can locate them.

Things you should check out to fully understand the width and diversity of the Wing Chun family of systems:
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.Systems
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Wing-Chun-Definitive-Traditions/dp/0804831416
http://www.wingchunillustrated.com/

There is no difference between Wing Chun, Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun, Wing T*un, Wing T**un, Ving Chun, Yong Chun etc. etc. etc. (Wing Tsun, Wing T*un and Wing T**un however tend to be used more so by Leung Ting and ex-followers of Leung Ting (a controversial late student of Ip Man (originally a great-grandstudent)).


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## geezer (Aug 28, 2013)

SamAbb said:


> Many Wing Chun practitioners only speak of "lineage" within the Ip Man Hong Kong Wing Chun kuen system, which is actually the most modern and widespread, but it doesn't make it "Wing Chun" the-one-and-only. There are many older, smaller systems only taught in private pockets inside and outside China. Hard to find, but some real gems of information can be found in some of the (legitimate) older systems if you can locate them.



Seems odd to say that some WC is more modern while other WC is older since they all come from the same source in Fatshan, and as such are all of equal age. Perhaps you mean that some of the old mainland groups practice in a manner that appears to have changed less since the 19th Century. But an archaic appearance isn't proof of antiquity. Still, we are fortunate to live in times when some of the obscure mainland stuff is coming into the open. Fascinating stuff.

As far as the differences between the various Yip Man derived VT/WC/WT groups, I'd have to say that there is a great deal of difference! Even Grandmaster Yip's direct students differ in their interpretation of the system in fairly significant ways.

Lastly, where did you get that bit about Leung Ting being a "great-grandstudent" (ie a third generation student) of GM Yip? LT began his training as a student of Leung Sheung, then trained briefly with Yip Man at the end of the grandmaster's life. In spite of Leung Ting having had direct training under Yip Man, many of his peers dispute whether he had a true todai relationship to Yip Sifu. But even according to such a formal and traditional standard, he would have at least been a second generation student, not third!


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## SamAbb (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes they do differ, but they are not separate arts, which what I think what the poster was asking.

As for a source on Leung Ting, I can't post links at the moment, but if you google 'a scandal at the ving tsun school', click on the first result you'll see one source...


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## SamAbb (Aug 29, 2013)

I would also argue differently about 'source' and 'time'. For example Ip Mans evolution on Wing Chun began in about 1949/50 in Hong Kong. It was his personal interpretation and expression of the art fit for teaching to the Hong Kong public. That particular expression of Wing Chun was not taught by anyone anywhere prior to him doing so


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 30, 2013)

SamAbb said:


> I would also argue differently about 'source' and 'time'. For example Ip Mans evolution on Wing Chun began in about 1949/50 in Hong Kong. It was his personal interpretation and expression of the art fit for teaching to the Hong Kong public. That particular expression of Wing Chun was not taught by anyone anywhere prior to him doing so



Sun style taijiquan comes from Hao style, Hao style comes from a combination of Yang and Chen (or Zhaobao depending on who you want to believe). Wu Style comes from Yang Style and Yang style comes from Chen as does Zhaobao for the most part, (again, it depends on who you want to believe). 

But the origin or the source of all is still Chen Wangting

There are multiple styles of Baguazhang; Yin, Cheng, Liang, Gao, Jiang, Shi, Song, Sun, Fu, to name a few and their source/origin is Dong Haichaun

There are multiple styles of Xingyiquan, Shanxi, Hebei and Henan being the main styles and all of them have the source or origin of Dai Xinyiquan

And this same thing can be done for multiple CMA styles

The origin or source of Ip Man's version is still Fatshan and that is about s far back as is historically provable. Ip Man&#8217;s Wing Chun is just another Wing Chun lineage, that is all


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## SamAbb (Aug 30, 2013)

I don't disagree. Just a couple of different ways of looking at the same thing. My response was more for the original poster. I wouldn't want them believing its easy enough to label all Wing Chun as "Foshan" and that its all the same, as it all comes from the same source. At a minimum there is several old Chan family lineages, Yiu Choi WC, Cheung Bo WC, Pan Nam WC, Ip Man (early) WC, varieties of YKS WC and many others all being currently practiced in Foshan. All, whilst being distinctly and irrefutably WC, are still all quite different.

Good discussion. Thank you. I'm off, some silliness on another thread has discouraged me from participating and contributing further. Wish you all well.


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## geezer (Aug 31, 2013)

SamAbb said:


> I don't disagree. Just a couple of different ways of looking at the same thing. My response was more for the original poster. I wouldn't want them believing its easy enough to label all Wing Chun as "Foshan" and that its all the same, as it all comes from the same source. At a minimum there is several old Chan family lineages, Yiu Choi WC, Cheung Bo WC, Pan Nam WC, Ip Man (early) WC, varieties of YKS WC and many others all being currently practiced in Foshan. All, whilst being distinctly and irrefutably WC, are still all quite different.
> 
> Good discussion. Thank you. I'm off, some silliness on another thread has discouraged me from participating and contributing further. Wish you all well.



Well, farewell to Sam. He seemed to have some interesting points to contribute, but didn't have much stomach for others disagreeing with him. And that happens a lot on a forum. I mean we are here for discussion right? Certainly I've been told-off more than a few times. Sometimes rightly, other times by by ignorant yobs. So what? IMHO, if that bothers you, probably best to move on. All the best --Steve


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