# 3 section staff



## kachi (Dec 13, 2006)

I've been thinking about taking up the 3 section staff as a bit of a side project to my current martial art (Karate) but I don't know a whole lot about it besides the limited info on the net. Could anyone give me information about it, how it's used, it's effectiveness, the difficulty of the weapon and anything else you feel I should know. Thanks

Just to point out, I won't be learning through an instructor (well not yet at least) but mostly through books and DVD's. My history with weapons includes a bit of training with Bo-Staff, Escrima sticks and a little bit of knife work.


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## Dave Leverich (Dec 13, 2006)

My own information on it is somewhat limited as well. They do allow 4th dan and up to train in the 3-sectional staff in my organization, I just have barely scratched the surface of the limited curriculum they offer.

From what I've observed (being an Escrimador for 15 years on and off), there are a lot of escrima style blocks, but it's 'shortened' if that makes sense? Most of the use I've seen with it is much like the two sticks style, though I couldn't relate it to a certain school of Escrima/Kali.

Some of the work is like the long range staff, but only as far as swinging the beast. They're long.

The trap work interests me with them, as well as the joint locks/arm locks etc. As you have that great triangle space to inflict torture, er persuade, opponents.

I have yet to meet anyone who was truly proficient in them.

Once you've studied some, I'd love to hear your take on it. As again, mine's quite superficial based on my other weapons training.


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## Mei Hua (Dec 14, 2006)

It's one of the more difficult weapons to learn and is trickier than it looks, though very versatile. If you start training it get one of the foam-training one's first untill you become familiar with it, you'll save yourself alot of pain that way.

It can be used to whip, as a baton, to trap, as a staff.


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## Drac (Dec 14, 2006)

Mei Hua said:


> It's one of the more difficult weapons to learn and is trickier than it looks,


 
Almost gave myself a serious concussion playing with one of them because I had an instructional book and it didn't look all that difficult...


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## Flying Crane (Dec 14, 2006)

If you don't have an instructor, you are almost guaranteed to hurt yourself, as well as never really understand how the weapon is to be used, it's strengths and weaknesses and capabilities, etc.


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## clfsean (Dec 14, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> If you don't have an instructor, you are almost guaranteed to hurt yourself, as well as never really understand how the weapon is to be used, it's strengths and weaknesses and capabilities, etc.


 
True... so true. 

Even with an instructor, sometimes it's a weapon that just doesn't work for you. My sifu jams with it... I look like a rabbit caught in a blender that's set on high. So I tend to not play with it any more. It just didn't fit with me very well, no fault of my sifu. Spear, stick, sword, broadsword, dagger, two handed sword, etc... those I'm comfortable with. The linked/flexible weapons ... not so much.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2006)

Mei Hua said:


> It's one of the more difficult weapons to learn and is trickier than it looks, though very versatile. If you start training it get one of the foam-training one's first untill you become familiar with it, you'll save yourself alot of pain that way.
> 
> It can be used to whip, as a baton, to trap, as a staff.


 
I agree. I use to train 3 section staff and there are a few times I was INCREDIBLY happy that I had the foam covered version.



Flying Crane said:


> If you don't have an instructor, you are almost guaranteed to hurt yourself, as well as never really understand how the weapon is to be used, it's strengths and weaknesses and capabilities, etc.


 
Agree completely. 

One of my 1st Sifus advanced 3 section students did demos all over the place and always used the wooden 3 section staff. One demo he made a minor error and as he said 

"I just couldn't figure out why I was laying face down in the grass for a minute there" 

He got hit in the back of the head by the 3 section staff and went down like a tree. 

One mistake with a 3 section can cause some serious problems.


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## Flying Crane (Dec 14, 2006)

In addition to the difficulty and danger factor, it is an unusual weapon and I think without guidance, you really and truly will not figure out half of what the weapon is capable of.  Even if you don't hurt yourself, you will probably figure out a couple basic movements, never really be able to use them, and that's it.  There is so much more to it that you will never uncover.

When I was a kid, I bought a pair of Sai (good heavy ones, I still have them), and a book by Fumio Demura on how to use them.  The book had all kinds of pictures, step by step stuff on how to defend with them, combinations, etc.  I learned how to flip them back and forth, I figured out that I could punch with them, jab with the elbow, block a little bit, and that is it.  didn't even scratch the surface on the real useage.  It got old quick.  They were never more than a toy for me.  

That is what will probably happen with the three-section staff if you pursue it in this way.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> When I was a kid, I bought a pair of Sai (good heavy ones, I still have them), and a book by Fumio Demura on how to use them. The book had all kinds of pictures, step by step stuff on how to defend with them, combinations, etc. I learned how to flip them back and forth, I figured out that I could punch with them, jab with the elbow, block a little bit, and that is it. didn't even scratch the surface on the real useage. It got old quick. They were never more than a toy for me.


 
And here I thought it was just me  

Again agree the 3 section is much more complicated than it appears and inertia is not always your friend.

Without a Sifu or teacher that knows the 3 section I really would not condone buying it and trying it yourself. I once made the mistake of taking my 3 section to work one day because I had class right after and a guy in my office got a hold of them and thought they looked really cool on TV and HOW hard could they be anyway.

He did have to pay for the sign he destroyed in the lobby as well as deal with the lump on his head and that was with the padded version


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## terryl965 (Dec 14, 2006)

Proper instruction is needed to fully understand the weapon


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## Taijiman (Dec 14, 2006)

It's defenitely one of those weapons that I wouldn't recomend trying on your own (along with chain whip and rope dart), especially without experience in Chinese weaponry.


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## kachi (Dec 14, 2006)

It seems that basically everyone is against the idea, but it's something I've been wanting to try for a long time. For now I will be learning the weapon through myself and books/DVDs but then when I move (in a about 1-2 months) I will seek proper instruction. Remember, this is just a side project, not an absolute commitment...Yet. Perhaps after I get instruction and start to really learn, I will concentrate and devote more to it.

Being that I live in South Australia there is only 2 Martial Arts stores within 1 hour travel.
These are the 3 section staff options that I have
Ronin Martial Arts and Martial Arts Shop

Any idea which would be best? And as for the issue of injuring myself, I was going to go down to the local hardware store and buy some foam to put over it.


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## 7starmantis (Dec 14, 2006)

Dang thats alot of money for a beginner sum gi kuan.....I've never paid more than maybe $30 or $40. 

And I wish my sifu would let us start with foam ones!


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## kachi (Dec 14, 2006)

Yeah but remember products in America are priced different to us in Australia due to wage differences and the price of the $ constantly changing.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2006)

If you are going to beat yourself up, and with a 3 section and no teacher you will...... Heck with a teacher and a 3 section you will, go padded to start

http://www.martialartsshop.com.au/CoverPages/3SectionsStaff.htm
3 Section Staffs 26" Padded, Black


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## kachi (Dec 14, 2006)

But I'm a bit weary of paying $75 for a padded one and only ever have a padded one whereas I can pay $75 or $55 for a wooden one and just put some foam on it for a small price. That way it is more safe to train with and I can take the padding of at any time.


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## TaiChiTJ (Dec 14, 2006)

Advice from Shifu Mancuso on practicing the 3 section staff: 

*Remember to wear your bicycle helmet and don't smile while practicing. *

He says the above while reviewing a chinese cd (number 549) on Emei Mountain Kung Fu  

Here is the link to the page: 

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd2/coll_ermei2.htm

Good Luck and stay safe! :ultracool


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 15, 2006)

kachi said:


> But I'm a bit weary of paying $75 for a padded one and only ever have a padded one whereas I can pay $75 or $55 for a wooden one and just put some foam on it for a small price. That way it is more safe to train with and I can take the padding of at any time.


 
It's your head, shins, face, etc. so do what you think is best. 



TaiChiTJ said:


> Advice from Shifu Mancuso on practicing the 3 section staff:
> 
> *Remember to wear your bicycle helmet and don't smile while practicing. *
> 
> ...


 
If you buy wood, padding added or not, at least do the above.


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## Dave Leverich (Dec 15, 2006)

My only issues with adding padding would be the size of the weapon changing (the grip). I've often thought the same about escrima sticks for kids (we have foam ones as well, foam over pvc etc), but then I think.... you know, we're making a practice... practice weapon. Then I laugh.

I think I'd start with the foam covered pvc three-sectional myself. Those things get moving pretty fast, and my temple can't defend itself if I'm not helping hehe.


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## HG1 (Dec 15, 2006)

Flying Crane said:


> In addition to the difficulty and danger factor, it is an unusual weapon and I think without guidance, you really and truly will not figure out half of what the weapon is capable of. Even if you don't hurt yourself, you will probably figure out a couple basic movements, never really be able to use them, and that's it. There is so much more to it that you will never uncover.
> 
> When I was a kid, I bought a pair of Sai (good heavy ones, I still have them), and a book by Fumio Demura on how to use them. The book had all kinds of pictures, step by step stuff on how to defend with them, combinations, etc. I learned how to flip them back and forth, I figured out that I could punch with them, jab with the elbow, block a little bit, and that is it. didn't even scratch the surface on the real useage. It got old quick. They were never more than a toy for me.
> 
> That is what will probably happen with the three-section staff if you pursue it in this way.


That pretty much sums up my 3 sectional experience. As a teenager I purchased one with two instructional books('3 Sectional Staff' by Kam Yuen & 'The Three Sectional Staff' by Eric Lee),which made it look so easy --- not. After getting a couple of good lumps on the head & nearly losing a tooth, I would practice with a motorcycle helmet(funny visual). It's a hard weapon to control, the figure eight swings are just for show. Once the momentum is broken, one or both of the staff ends come back at you. The novelty of the weapon wore off quickly.


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