# Attracting adult students



## thesensei (Nov 9, 2002)

Hello all...just looking for some tips.  My TKD instructor is trying to find someway to attract and keep more adult students.  We have quite a few kids, but we want to get more adults as well.  We were talking about the belt system, and wondering if maybe adults aren't as excited about that aspect of it.  Has anyone been successful with either taking away, or reducing the belt system??  What about other promotional ideas to attract them?  What should we focus on?  Why do adults take MA??  

If it helps, Mr. Booker teaches a very traditional ITF TKD style.  We are also affiliated with the AAU.  You can check us out on the web at http://www.broadwayfamilykarate.com.  Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,
jb


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## GouRonin (Nov 9, 2002)

I like to go around and beat people up then leave my friend's martial arts dojo card on them so that when they wake up they have a note saying, _"If you don't want this to happen again, call this number."_

I like to sign it, _"The Phantom."_


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## thesensei (Nov 9, 2002)

ok...that's what i'll do today then...i'm sure that'l get us lots of business!!

jb


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## GouRonin (Nov 9, 2002)

I tried to recruit strippers for a school I was a member of. In fact I went as far as to tell them to bring their boyfriends if they thought I was kidding. After a demonstration of what we were doing, not only did I get thrown out of the bar but the girls saw the bruises I left on their boyfriends and decided against joining.

But imagine...a class full of strippers with a big bay window so people walking by can see...you'd make a mint if you were located near a high school.


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## Chris from CT (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GouRonin _
> 
> *I like to go around and beat people up then leave my friend's martial arts dojo card on them so that when they wake up they have a note saying, "If you don't want this to happen again, call this number."
> 
> ...



Gou, I have to tell you.  This hasn't been a great day for me, but every thread I've read today you've made me smile (only a little bit though)

Thanks Bro.  :asian:


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## GouRonin (Nov 9, 2002)

I see my work here is done.


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## Michael Billings (Nov 9, 2002)

Gou, you'll do!!!

-Michael
UKS-Texas


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## Elfan (Nov 9, 2002)

thesensei, on the belt system, what do you do now?  I know a lot of schools do lots of stripes and half belts 1/4 belts 2/3 belts and stuff like that with the kids.  However, as an adult that is a huge turn off for me if its done in the adult program as well.


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## thesensei (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Elfan _
> 
> *on the belt system, what do you do now?  I know a lot of schools do lots of stripes and half belts 1/4 belts 2/3 belts and stuff like that with the kids.  However, as an adult that is a huge turn off for me if its done in the adult program as well. *



well...we use a 10 gup system.  yellow, senior yellow, green, senior green, blue, senior blue, purple, senior purple, red, senior red, black.  Within each belt level, there are 3 stripes representing stages of the curriculum.  testings are held every 2 months.  the stripes are primarily for the kids, we use them for the adults, but they're not as big of a deal.

jb


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## Elfan (Nov 9, 2002)

Doesn't sound that bad but you might want to consider those 3 stripes inbetween.


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## RCastillo (Nov 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by thesensei _
> 
> *Hello all...just looking for some tips.  My TKD instructor is trying to find someway to attract and keep more adult students.  We have quite a few kids, but we want to get more adults as well.  We were talking about the belt system, and wondering if maybe adults aren't as excited about that aspect of it.  Has anyone been successful with either taking away, or reducing the belt system??  What about other promotional ideas to attract them?  What should we focus on?  Why do adults take MA??
> 
> ...



Same here. I teach at a YWCA. Great facilities, great prices, get free adds in the paper that come out 2-3 times a week.To make a long story short, very few takers. At one time, I had up to 6 people. Not alot by any stretch, but good for me, and now I'm down to 2 people.

I've been here 2 years, and people know I teach, but I'm at a total loss. We're in an area where there's money, so, I don't know. I do know that it's killing me on the inside, but I still manage to keep on.


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## TangSooGuy (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm also having some difficulty attracting a lot of adults.  I teach traditional World Tang Soo Do at a YMCA in a relatively small-town environment northwest of Pittsburgh, PA, and there is plenty of advertising available through the Y.  

I've been in operation exactly 1 year as of today, and currently have about 20 kids, but only 4 full time adults.  All of these adults are parents of kids I have in the youth class. The funny prt about this is that when i taught for my instructor, I taught at a YMCA as well, but exclusively taught the adults class, which consisted of 20 adults.  The youth class there though had about 50 kds.


In short, it seems that adults are just harder to recruit and retain than youth students, at least at the Y.

I am almost running out of room at the current facility for the youth students, and am considering expanding the youth class schedule.

It is my goal over the next year, though, to try to attract more adults.

I will continue to recruit from the parents of my youth students, as this can become a great source of potential adult students, but I am not sure what exactly will attract adults who don't have kids training with me.

I have had a couple of other adults train with me for short periods of time, and there reasons for leaving were always that they just didn't have the time to dedicate to it, or that it was just a lot harder than they expected (both cop-outs in my opinion, but what do you do?)


So, to make a long post longer, what has anyone seen that really works to get those adults in the door?


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## RCastillo (Jun 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TangSooGuy _
> *I'm also having some difficulty attracting a lot of adults.  I teach traditional World Tang Soo Do at a YMCA in a relatively small-town environment northwest of Pittsburgh, PA, and there is plenty of advertising available through the Y.
> 
> I've been in operation exactly 1 year as of today, and currently have about 20 kids, but only 4 full time adults.  All of these adults are parents of kids I have in the youth class. The funny prt about this is that when i taught for my instructor, I taught at a YMCA as well, but exclusively taught the adults class, which consisted of 20 adults.  The youth class there though had about 50 kds.
> ...



Bro, you're doing way better than me. I've just left the YWCA after almost 3 years. I just couldn't draw any people from there, or elsewhere,  and they weren't supporting me either. I relented, and was gonna do kids, but screwed on that deal also.

No disrespect, but never work at a place run by women who have no earthly knowledge of the arts, and run through 4 Fitness Directors in 3 years.

I've shifted over to another gym, and rent space at $15 an hr, that way I won't get thrown out by a Weight Watchers Group! Plus, this owner is supporting me also. I don't expect many lifters from there, but at least I have a place that wants me.

We'll see, BTW, good luck with your continued success!:asian:


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## Disco (Jun 4, 2003)

Most adults that I have interviewed, prior to starting training want to learn SELF DEFENSE. Very few are interested in competition. They shy away from schools loaded with kids, (I know that the youth market keeps the doors open). Advertising a self defense class for adults only could'nt hurt. You may have to revise to just teaching nothing but self defense techniques. But once there in and getting into the flow, they just may want to go for the full blown training.

Now bear with me on this one. I was in the mall one day and there was an Instructor giving a self defense demo in a vacant store front. After the demo I asked him if this was profitable. He told me that the mall gave him the use of the area for free and every time he did a demo (every 6 mo's), it would be good for a minimum of 10 new adult student's. 

Another way would be to try to get into your local College, Jr. College or Tech School. Some schools will even make it a credit course. 

Just a couple of ideas. Hope they can help...........:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Jun 4, 2003)

Focus on the kids. If you are good some of their parents will join.
Practice good business skills like using thank you notes and and full page letters detailing your goals or your visions. Most adults are dabblers so dont't expect to keep and hold them. When the Kids grow up they will be your adult base; they will steer their freinds toward you. Weve got about 400 kids and only 20 or thirty active adults at our school. Kids are the future of the Martial arts. Thats is just my opinion. Check out United Proffessionals in florida they can get you going.


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## Nightingale (Jun 4, 2003)

raise your prices just a little bit, and offer the parents a two for one deal if they train too.  the parent pays for the kid to train, and then the parent trains free.  works well to get a good, solid adult base, and when you have that, it'll spread by word of mouth, and you can stop offering the special.


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## Matt Stone (Jun 4, 2003)

I have been teaching, off and on, since 1991.  I have taught in the civilian sector as well as on military bases in the US and overseas.

I get a real kick out of how many adults claim they want to learn self-defense, and when they see that a) it takes actual work to become the martial arts master they saw at the Jet Li movie marathon, and that b) it typically hurts (a lot), they run like they are on fire to leave the building...

I have taught "Tai Chi for Health and Wellness" (which is really nothing more than teaching our Taijiquan basic form without the emphasis on learning what is going on in the form, without the practice of form and self-defense applications, etc.), and that gets a lot of interest, but even with the watering down and removal of the fighting aspect of it, they still typically don't last more than a few months...

Bottom line, IMO, as martial arts becomes more and more mainstream, less and less people are actually interested in pursuing "the Path."  Like it was said upthread, adults are "dabblers," and as soon as they tire of the effort, they bail.

Also, it seems like the way to financial solvency as a martial arts teacher lies with high tuition, high profile location, low quality and shallow depth of instruction, lots of oriental mystique, lots of belts (which cost to "earn") and lots of hype...  Real traditional MA that work will just get you one or two dedicated students, but no real increase in popularity...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:


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## lvwhitebir (Jun 5, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *I get a real kick out of how many adults claim they want to learn self-defense, and when they see that a) it takes actual work to become the martial arts master they saw at the Jet Li movie marathon, and that b) it typically hurts (a lot), they run like they are on fire to leave the building...*



In my experience, they say they want to learn self-defense, but it's really more than that.  They want to look and move like Jet Li.  They want to believe they can walk into a crowd of 50 people and be the last one standing.  When they see that it takes hard work to be *that* proficient, they may bail, or they may be enlightened.  We have to somehow break the stereotype that with two classes you too can beat up anyone.




> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *Bottom line, IMO, as martial arts becomes more and more mainstream, less and less people are actually interested in pursuing "the Path."  Like it was said upthread, adults are "dabblers," and as soon as they tire of the effort, they bail.*



It depends on what "the Path" is.  When they find that's it not fun, not what they want anymore they bail.  Adults want to get what they feel they're paying for.  If they feel like they're progressing and not just getting beat up, they tend to stick around.  Granted not everyone will stay around in one school for 5 years, but does that mean they don't still "train?"

I personally find that kids are more "dabblers" and go by what feels good at the moment.  Just about every kid I know goes into 2-3 sports, moving in and out of them on a whim.  Adults can stick with it more readily and can see it more for it's potential.

At my school, I try to have a variety of programs that appeal to different groups.  We have internal programs and external programs that emphasis more of the "art", health programs like kickboxing for strength and cardiovascular training, and a self defense program for no-nonsense self-defense.  We also have an "optional" sparring class for those that want more fighting.  Some people straddle programs because they want the whole "experience" but most stick with what interests them.  With a mix, as their tastes change, they can try something different.



> _Originally posted by Yiliquan1 _
> *Also, it seems like the way to financial solvency as a martial arts teacher lies with high tuition, high profile location, low quality and shallow depth of instruction, lots of oriental mystique, lots of belts (which cost to "earn") and lots of hype...  Real traditional MA that work will just get you one or two dedicated students, but no real increase in popularity...*



As with any commodity, high tuition and high profile location have nothing to do with the other qualities you mention.  A high profile location attracts more students to "the arts," but unfortunately costs more, so higher tuition is necessary.  Training with someone that's really good, should cost you more.  Training with high quality instruction should cost you more.  Besides, if you're happy with what you're paying for, does it matter what the cost is?  People pay a lot more for a lot of other activities that don't have near the benefits.  Financial solvency is a balance of getting and retaining students and charging a reasonable amount for your services that at least covers expenses.  Many schools choose the mall front because it attracts more students to enable the instructor to do what he likes for more people.  If you don't go that route, you have fewer prospects, but fewer bills.

Also, people complain about the cost of some schools but have you looked at what inflation has been the last couple of decades?  I looked the other day and $50 in 1982 is now $95 (in 2002).  Almost doubled!  What did we pay when we were training?  I'm not charging the same amount I paid, when inflation is figured in.

"Real traditional MA" to me sounds like the military training in the '60s.  That type of training is definitely fading since most people don't want/need that type of hard-core training.  They want something that meets their needs (whatever that may be) while still allowing them to go to work the next day.  While hard-core training may still be helpful, I would reserve it for the 1-2 *dedicated* students that you pull from the larger MA crowd, those that are truly interested in it.  The others will still stay students for their own reasons and will at least get some benefit.

WhiteBirch


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## tonbo (Jun 5, 2003)

One thing that we do is offer certain promotions.  For example, in May, we have "Mother's Day Month", and "Father's Day Month" in June.  During each of those, the Moms and Dads, respectively, can join in the white belt class with their kids for free.  Quite often, we see people sign up when they have a chance to play with it a bit before having to commit.  Then they don't feel like such beginners to start.

Another thing we do is offer 25% discount on tuition for the first family member, 50% discount for the third family member.  This is often quite a nice incentive as well.

I don't know that I necessarily agree that all adults want the "kick butt" results.  From what I've seen, most adults who call to get info on the school don't *know* what they want--they only have a vague idea about what the arts are all about.

If you get a call asking for information, set up an appointment then and there for that person to come in for an introductory course.  Have a "free week" (2 classes or so) that they can come in for no obligation.  After the second class, offer them the beginner's program, and go from there.  Oldest sales trick in the book:  Put the product in the consumer's hands!!  Give the adults a chance to try it out, and more of them will be sold.

To get 'em in the door to begin with, put up flyers at the local supermarket, or other high traffic areas.  Offer your special (the free week), or hold a raffle for a free month.  There are a number of tricks......most just need a combination of marketing and persistence.

Good luck!!

Peace--


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## drunken mistress (Feb 5, 2004)

I agree. Mixed classes are a good idea. I saw my son training at Karate and thought it looked fun. Several other parents did the same. It´s much more fun than sitting around watching. I hope to do the same with TKD when classes start locally.


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## oldnewbie (Feb 5, 2004)

Thesensi,


I am one of those parents who joined a few months after my son.

I wasn't getting much exercise, but enjoyed watching the class. I would speak with the instructor each night, and he began asking me to be "the dummy".

I would stand up in front of the class while he showed the kids a particular kick, puch, etc.  After a few times, I said.."Maybe I should be in class", he said why not? It was that simple.
Two years later, I'm still enjoying MA.

I asked other parents to join, and the same answer is embarrassment or concern over looking foolish.."I could never doo that!!!). It's not the money, it's getting over that first hurdle. We now have four adults at various levels..(none in my class)
All  have been "the dummy" at least once.

Just an idea.......


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## Reprobate (Feb 5, 2004)

Transform your art into something esoteric like Nicaraguan Snake Swirling and you'll have the fashion victims falling over each other to try the hot new fad for two weeks.

Maybe the focus should be less on competition or self-defense, but more on personal growth, something that most adults are interested in. 

Personal growth through martial arts:
-learn to reign in poor impulse control
-gain a better posture to prevent back problems
-gain stamina and a better sex drive
-improve muscle tone without boring repetitive exercises
-learn about new cultures
-develop better manual dexterity and control
-yell without being arrested

Anyway, I guess you can catch my drift. And don't forget to wash your hands afterwards.


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## wadowoman (Mar 3, 2004)

This is my first post here, so first off, hi everyone  

I have been teaching for six years. I have 75 students and only 10 are adults.
All are parents of the junior students except one and he is the 23 yo brother of one of my teenage students.

Hall hire costs are expensive in this area so I teach the adults and kids in the same class. It doesn't cause any problems.
Sharon


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## buddah_belly (Mar 23, 2004)

My instructor was joking about telling people we'd put them on a waiting list and as mat space becomes available we'll call them.  That way they will talk around town and get interest stirred up.


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## edhead2000 (Apr 4, 2004)

My instructor does not advertise at all.  All his students come from word of mouth.  The adult class is usually around 25 students, but many more are signed up and attend when they can (night shifts, etc.).  We usually break up into 2 - 3 groups depending on belt rank and one of the adult black belts works with each group.  Several of the adults have kids that take kenpo as well.


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## RCastillo (Apr 4, 2004)

Update on me. I've got six students now (they seem serious) I still try to get more by offering a two-for-one deal. Would you believe I still get no bites on those? Maybe the Goldendragon was right, I ain't no good after all?


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## MisterMike (Apr 5, 2004)

RCastillo said:
			
		

> Update on me. I've got six students now (they seem serious) I still try to get more by offering a two-for-one deal. Would you believe I still get no bites on those? Maybe the Goldendragon was right, I ain't no good after all?



Hey that's still good! I ran an ad for about 4 weeks before opening and had one student my first day. I've been open for 2 weeks now and have 4 regular (if you can call it that already) students and 2 who may drop in now and again.

I'm not in it for the big bucks tho. As long as my dojo stays open and functioning, I'm happy. The more students I have, the more I can put back into the dojo in the form of mats, weapons, etc.


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## OC Kid (Jun 19, 2004)

Ive been teaching kids and Ive found that most of them dont want to be fighters (kick boxing ect) they just want to learn self defense so Thats what I do now very basic hard stances (japanese system w/ a lot of kata work) and self defense. The kids are loving it. 

Now for adults, The most successful schools here offer both. For the adult who wants to learn self defense well be sure offer a basic class for both begining and advance student in self defense a couple maybe 4 class for each group a week. Then for the fighters offer a adult fighting class a couple of nights a week and lets not forget private lessons adults who are busy (read working for a living) have a limited amount of time so privates are a good way to boost student enrollment. 
Also the MMA thing is becomeing a great marketing ploy so you could mention MMA Kick boxing with BJJ. 

Also like Joe Lewis said on his one of his tapes people like equipment. They love health clubs all the bells and whistles when they buy a car ect. The equate equipment with quality. 
  Have lots of equipment. Maybe a floor level ring (www.ringsideproducts.com) for sparring with lots of heavy/speed/ double ended bags  , kicking pads , muay thai kicking pads, focus pads ect and add them to your work outs . 

Plus like what was already mentioned have family discounts 2 fers on a 6 month contract. Have family group classes that way Johnny and his daddy can go with Billy and Uncle Steve.... Adult female begining classes with 2 fers so Suzie and her GF can go with out feeling intimidated and some females are intimidated when they go to a class and see a lot of guys sparrnig ect so the possibilites are endless.


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## Faye (Jun 19, 2004)

I disagree that the belt system turns off adults, hey, we need some encouragement too!! I'm not into those stripes that much, but if that's the way the school system is, it's fine.
I also agree that doing demo can really attract people, it can get people really excited!!!
In terms of classes, it's probably necessary to have a lower belt or beginner class, and advance classes, perhaps some classes more concentrated on self defense (alot of adults are into that!), and for people who love to spar, do 1 or 2 nites of sparring classes!


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## TigerWoman (Jun 19, 2004)

Boy, this is a really old thread, the originator probably doesn't check back anymore...but in any event, people are reading this....

Alot of the adults we have are also from kids being in, me included. We also have the 10 Gup system. White, Yellow, Orange, Green, High Green, Blue, High Blue, Red, High Red, Rec. Black1st Dan Black.  That in my opinion is enough tests.  I think it is excessive to test in-between more than one stripe especially if it requires more testing fees. If you take these additional tests into account and average it out over the tests, making testing fees lower, it would be ok. 

Faye is right about the demos. Also fair booths attract alot of attention. Special self-defense classes do too.  Also special summer kids classes which then go into regular classes.  When I taught kids, they mostly liked breaking boards, easy boards until they were capable. In fact, that was like candy-if they behaved and did as asked, then there was time to do breaking at the end. We do breaking at fairs, it attracts alot of would-be students. We show them how to break, usually palm strike and we go through a ton of boards which they pay for. Kids first, and then parents join.

As far as class makeup, its better when lower rank train with higher rank.
The lower student learns that techniques can be learned and the higher rank will help the lower with tips. Sparring is more meaningful too when one partner knows what they are doing and injuries are less. But women like to start out in a less intimidating environment and like to train for the first year without men.  I think that changes though, the stronger they get and more sure of their abilities. TW


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## BlueDragon1981 (Jul 1, 2004)

I think that adults like to learn and not just sit around like some kids do. You have to keep adults by showing interest in increasing there position. Sounds odd but I think it works. We used to have adult classes and kids classes seperate.


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