# Pao Fa Lien wooden dummy form



## zuti car (Mar 6, 2015)

I came across this , I thought it might be interesting ...


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## geezer (Mar 7, 2015)

_Zuti_: it's been a while since anybody posted anything relating to Pao Fa Lin WC. Do you know anything about this system? Isn't your background TWC?

Anyway, the baggy pants look familiar, ...similar to what Yip Man was wearing in the old film of him doing the Dummy form. Otherwise not much that I recognize. It seems to have a lot of withdrawing energy and pulling back before striking. Also, what do make of those moves where he turns his back to the dummy?


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## Marnetmar (Mar 7, 2015)

Awesome. It's hard to come across Pao Fa Lien stuff.

Something else I thought was interesting:






Someone posted this a while ago, apparently the guy's 103!


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## yak sao (Mar 7, 2015)

geezer said:


> .............. what do make of those moves where he turns his back to the dummy?



That seems to be reminiscent of the tripodal exercises


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## Kwan Sau (Mar 7, 2015)

yak sao said:


> That seems to be reminiscent of the tripodal exercises



How so?
Is there a similar motion in the WT tripodal form?


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## zuti car (Mar 7, 2015)

geezer said:


> _Zuti_: it's been a while since anybody posted anything relating to Pao Fa Lin WC. Do you know anything about this system? Isn't your background TWC?
> 
> Anyway, the baggy pants look familiar, ...similar to what Yip Man was wearing in the old film of him doing the Dummy form. Otherwise not much that I recognize. It seems to have a lot of withdrawing energy and pulling back before striking. Also, what do make of those moves where he turns his back to the dummy?


I don't know much about this system , there are around empty 10 forms , several weapon forms, couple of dummy forms ...the style is very soft ,chi sao platform is different ... and that is all I can say about it, i really don't know anything about structure, power generation ... . PFL is very interesting , to me at anyway . if I get a chance I will try to pick up some basics .About my background , I left TWC as soon as I came to Taiwan several years back . To be honest  I put all my efforts now in learning Zonghe quan .


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## yak sao (Mar 7, 2015)

Kwan Sau said:


> How so?
> Is there a similar motion in the WT tripodal form?




I tried to find a video of it on youtube. The tripodal, at least as it is taught in our lineage, is not taught as a form, but as separate drills.

One of the drills, as an example, has you with the leg forward on the outside of one of the posts, making leg contact with the post at the lower shin. Then you spin and make contact with the same post this time with the opposite leg at the rear of your lower leg, as in a back sweep motion.


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## Kwan Sau (Mar 8, 2015)

yak sao said:


> I tried to find a video of it on youtube. The tripodal, at least as it is taught in our lineage, is not taught as a form, but as separate drills.
> 
> One of the drills, as an example, has you with the leg forward on the outside of one of the posts, making leg contact with the post at the lower shin. Then you spin and make contact with the same post this time with the opposite leg at the rear of your lower leg, as in a back sweep motion.



Oh I see...yeah think I've seen that on some other WT guys' tripodal videos (ie..fernandez, taner, etc). Thx Yak


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## yak sao (Mar 8, 2015)

zuti car said:


> I don't know much about this system , there are around empty 10 forms , several weapon forms, couple of dummy forms ....



I did some Googling yesterday after you posted the videos. This is a branch I haven't heard much about really.
The info I read said they had 10 forms, 4 dummy forms and around 6 weapons forms.
What I found interesting was their 1st three forms are the common WC forms of SNT CK and BT. They consider these the basic sets. The others are the intermediate and advanced sets.
So the question becomes, is this the "original "WC that the others grew out of?
Did Leung Jan only learn a portion of the system from Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai...or did they only  have a partial system?
Or is what we have today a product of Leung Jan's quest to simplify WC that continued down through Yip Man?

Just out loud ponderings on my part.


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## yak sao (Mar 8, 2015)

Here is a video of their SNT


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## zuti car (Mar 8, 2015)

yak sao said:


> I did some Googling yesterday after you posted the videos. This is a branch I haven't heard much about really.
> The info I read said they had 10 forms, 4 dummy forms and around 6 weapons forms.
> What I found interesting was their 1st three forms are the common WC forms of SNT CK and BT. They consider these the basic sets. The others are the intermediate and advanced sets.
> So the question becomes, is this the "original "WC that the others grew out of?
> ...



There are other styles separate from Wong Wah Bo\Leung Ji Tai , Leung Jan line and they also have 3 empty hand forms . There are also two separate brunches of PFL system and they have different curriculum , mainland brunch has less forms . PFL uniqueness is  a product of different developmental path and possible mixture with other arts . About Leung Jan and his art , we don't know how his art looked like and what curriculum he passed to his students . Even more, there is no pure Leung Jan's line of art , Chan Wah Shun's line through his son is mixed with Hung Gar and through Ng Chan So is mixed with Yuen Chai Wan"s wing chun .Yip Man"s Wing Chun is modified Yuen Kai San system (that is what I believe). Also , before wing chun Leung Jan practiced other arts , Snake style is one of them . There is no pure  or original art , at last there was no only one art ,there was probably several styles brought to the red boats and later combined from different people in different portions and that is why we have so many wing chun styles


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## Vajramusti (Mar 8, 2015)

zuti car said:


> There are other styles separate from Wong Wah Bo\Leung Ji Tai , Leung Jan line and they also have 3 empty hand forms . There are also two separate brunches of PFL system and they have different curriculum , mainland brunch has less forms . PFL uniqueness is  a product of different developmental path and possible mixture with other arts . About Leung Jan and his art , we don't know how his art looked like and what curriculum he passed to his students . Even more, there is no pure Leung Jan's line of art , Chan Wah Shun's line through his son is mixed with Hung Gar and through Ng Chan So is mixed with Yuen Chai Wan"s wing chun .Yip Man"s Wing Chun is modified Yuen Kai San system (that is what I believe). Also , before wing chun Leung Jan practiced other arts , Snake style is one of them . There is no pure  or original art , at last there was no only one art ,there was probably several styles brought to the red boats and later combined from different people in different portions and that is why we have so many wing chun styles


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On Ip Man's wing chun being modified Yuen Kay Shan system.... I clearly disagree.


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## Marnetmar (Mar 8, 2015)

Vajramusti said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Ip Man's wing chun being modified Yuen Kay Shan system.... I clearly disagree.



I'm in the same boat, I think Yip Man's WC has more of a basis in Chan Wah Shun's WC, he just took some bits and pieces from Yuen Kay San when he was living with the Yuen family after the communists burned his house down, as I doubt he lived with YKS long enough to learn his entire system.

Plus YKS was pretty reluctant to teach Yip Man in the first place sooo


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## zuti car (Mar 8, 2015)

Two man set


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## zuti car (Mar 8, 2015)

Here is a form from mainland PFL brunch , to me looks like White Crane a lot


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## zuti car (Mar 8, 2015)

Another video from mainland PFL brunch , again , to me looks like white crane a lot , on the other hand Hong Kong brunch looks like Wing Chun . On previous video , old man is direct student of system's founder "Pao Fa Lien"


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