# It's On



## Josh (Jan 27, 2004)

Hi.

It's been a crazy drama. But yea, there's this kid at school who buggs me. And today, he read my mind. He asked me if i wanted to fight him. I don't know if we will, but he's gonna definately keep bugging and bugging me. But i just wanna know your whole thoughts on this. I mean, and of course, what is a good defensive strategy. Keep moving?? i guess. thanks.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 27, 2004)

take him to your school and have him work out with the class
either he gets the idea or he dose not but he may decide he wants nothing to do with the fight. On the other hand it sounds like you want one so maybe you should practice more


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## David (Jan 27, 2004)

Schoolyard scrapples are stupid, however you apparently have no problem with agreeing to get into them.

Fighting to save myself and others from bad things when I am surprised by a violent confrontation and need to elimminate a threat is what I train for, not setting up a time after school to pump up my ego.

Sounds to me like you have the choice not to show up, even though it sounds like you already agreed to 'fight' this other person.  If you want encouragement to go kick some equally stupid kid's ***, you're not going to get it from me.

-David


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## Cruentus (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey Josh, I am not an RMA player, but I respect RMA arts, opinions, and views. So, please take my advise, coming from someone who is older then you (mid-twenties) but not too old to forget what it was like to be in high school.

Lesson #1: I hate to be preachy, but you shouldn't ever want to "fight" anyone. "Fights" are stupid, and ultimatily get you hurt both mentally and emotionally as well as physically, regardless of who wins. Hey, in combative arts, I often come accross people who I want to "spar," "test out," or "play" with. Yet, this is not the same as fighting because we are in a controlled environment where we can go out for beers afterwards, or go our seperate ways if we don't like each other, but either way we can WALK AWAY from the incident with a learning experience, regardless of the outcome. Hey, we are also all human too, and every now and again you may come accross someone who you just want to smash against the wall. A human desire, yet not the right thing to do, and actually not the same as "fighting." Usually when someone really pisses me, my anger is usually due to a fault I have rather then a fault they have, but that is a whole different topic. 

So what is "fighting" (as in, "lets fight after school") and why is it stupid? Fighting is trying to overpower your peer, or fellow man, through physical violence. The only reason to do this would be to overcome a shortcoming that YOU have. YOU need to overpower your fellow man because YOU are lacking somewhere, so you are trying to compensate. Perhaps you feel weak, unskilled, afraid, jelous, or whatever, so YOU have to prove to everyone that you are somehow better then this person by "fighting" them. It's one of the biggest signs of weakness. It's also the ultimate ego trip, and if you seek to "fight" anyone, then you are the ultimate jerk. This works the same when your younger as it does when your older. If you are a "steet fighter" and you like to go around and "fight" other people, then you need to really look yourself in the mirror and figure out WHY you feel the need to do that....because chances are you are an A-hole who needs to make some serious changes in his life.

Another reason "fighting" is stupid is because its dangerous. This is hard to realize when your in high school because most fights in high school are not that serious. They are entertainment. You might have some blood, or even something broken, but at the end of the day, USUALLY everybody goes home. As you get older and into your adult life, "fights" become more and more serious, both in injuries and legal repricussions. As you get older you will hopefully realize sooner then later (and probably after witnessing a death, serious injury, or jail time, and hopefully from someone else and not you) that "fighting" just ain't worth it. If you don't plan on finding this out soon in your adult life, then you should probably either start picking out your grave plot, or start getting fitted with a nice orange jumpsuit with the appropriate county and serial number on the back, because you will be needing one of these soon. Regardless, I don't expect you to realize this until you are fully an adult.

Having said all that, you seem like an alright kid (and not an A-hole). Also, I'll assume that although this other kid annoys the crap out of you and that at times you want to hit him. I'll also assume that you don't actually want to "fight" him.

Moving on...

lesson #2: Since we've established that you are not an A-hole, we have also established that you don't really want to fight this kid. Your not afraid of him, and you'll do what is nessicary to defend yourself, but your not in the business of ego tripping at other peoples expense. It also seems that you don't like this guy, for whatever reason. First review in your head what it is you don't like about him. If you have any ounce of compassion for other human beings, you will come to the conclusion that it is not that you don't like "him" more so then the fact that you don't like certian behaviors that he does. Keep this in mind, because your going to use this when you talk to him. Because eventually, you WILL end up talking to him. If he wants to "fight" you, then he is starving for attention, so don't expect him to leave you alone. When he does approach you one of 2 things will happend:

1. He will violate your space: This is very common, especially in high school. Most high schoolers haven't learned their lesson about this one yet.

1a. If he touches you (pushes you, pokes you, or whatever) game over. You put him down fast and hard. Now, keep in mind that prior to the encounter you should have assessed the threat level already so you can react accordingly to the level of danger; so you wouldn't put a pen through his eyeball when your in school and your life isn't in danger, for example. But, you might hip throw or sweep him on his hind end if he trys to shove you, though. Let the situation dictate the amount of force needed.

1b.  If he violates your space without actually touching you (gets in your face) put your hand up without touching him, take a step back, and give a verbal command that he doesn't need to be that close. Do this a second time, if needed. Do this a third time, if needed. Use your judgement here, but if there is no evidence that he is going to respect your space, then put him down same as if he actually touched you. You have to expect that if he insists on getting in your face that he intends to do more then talk or even yell at you, whether it is true or not. You could even get real tricky and yell something like, "Don't touch me!" Then take him down (with this tactic, witnesses will be manipulated into thinking that he actually touched you because he was close enough to be able to).

BOTTOM LINE: No one has the right to violate your space, period. If someone does violate your space, then you have the right to defend yourself. This goes for whether your in school, home, or ina dark alley. If you don't do something that lets your attacker know that you are not an easy target when they violate your space, then they will continue to push the envelope until the situation gets even more serious. Also, some "martial artists" as well as many authority figures will frown upon my advise. I don't care. You are not Ghandi fighting against an oppressive government, so tell them to throw their fantasy hippy ideals out the window. Also, the sad reality is you won't get in any more or less trouble for defending yourself from someone who is violating your space then if you were to sit there and take a beating with your hands behind your back. I know this sounds unfair, but such is life.

2. He will want to communicate. This may be through talking, yelling, or wisecracking, or whatever. Regardless, he is not violating your space, and he is trying to get a message accross to you, and get a reaction from you. You objective is to get these 5 things across to him:

1. Tell him what your problem is with him. Remember, this is that thing I told you to think long and hard about Maybe he continues to hit on your girlfriend in homeroom. Maybe he hits on you in homeroom. Maybe your only problem with him is that he has one with YOU. Regardless, tell him, and let him know that you'd like to resolve the problem, but that you can't control his actions. All you can say is that you don't expect to be able to get along with him until this problem starts to change.

2. Redefine what his problem is with you. Just state what it is, don't deny or confirm any of it, or get defensive. Example: if he thinks your hitting on his girlfriend, just say, "Your problem with me is you think I hit on your girlfriend." Don't say, "Your problem with me is that I think your girlfriend has nice teta's", or "Your problem with me is that your girlfriend is a concieted liar and tells you I hit on her all the time when I don't." See the difference? You don't want to turn into the instigator; if you have to whoop him you want a clear conscience. Now, if you don't know what his problem is then say so.

3. Let him know that you'd like to do what you can to help solve the problems between you and him. If he tells you what he wants to solve the problem, then you can see what you can do. Let him know that If you can't help solve the problem, then it is no longer your problem. Tell him not to expect anything to change if that is the case, and let him know that no amount of @$$ whooping will change anything. btw, if he gives a request, then honestly try to accomidate him. If he says, "apoligize," then suck it up and do it. Your avoiding a fight here, so your own ego should not be an element here.

4. Tell him that only @$$holes want to fight other people, and that you are not an @$$hole. So, let him know that no, you don't want to fight him.

5. Let him know that if he insists on fighting you, then you can't stop him. He's going to do what he is going to do. However, your not going to sit by and let it happend if he does insist, for one. For two, you aren't going to meet him anywhere so he can "fight" you. If he wants to do it so bad, then tell him to do it right now in school. Or, tell him to track you down on the way home, on the weekend, or whenever and wherever. If he really wants to find you, he will. If he really wants to fight you, he will. Let him know that the ball is in his court, but you are not going to make it easy for him.

So, here are the steps but more concise:

1. Identify your problem with him.
2. Identify his problem with you.
3. Let him know that you want to work hard to solve the problem (nonviolently).
4. Let him know that you don't want to fight him. (Why? Because your not an @$$hole, if he asks)
5. Let him know that you can't stop him if he insists on attacking you, but you aren't making it easy for him.

An example of how quickly you can get this across in a conversation is this:

"Here me out and then you can do what you want. I'm pissed off at you because I think that your acting like an egotistical @-hole regarding your girlfriend. You want to fight me because your girlfriend says I hit on her. Look, if you tell me what you want me to do, I'll do what I can to solve our little problem, because the fact is, I don't want to fight you. And no, I am not scared of you; The fact is I don't want to fight anyone because only @$$holes go out trying to pick fights, and I'm not an @$$hole. However, if I can't help you solve this problem, then no amount of @$$kicking will help. Now, if you insist on fighting me, I can't stop you. But the one thing I won't do is make it easy on you; I am not going to meet you after school, and I am not going to stand by and let you kick my @$$. So, if you want, swing on me right now. Otherwise, what can I do to help solve this problem without us trading punches."

Something like the above. It sounds like I am being too wordy, but, he will either listen, or he will violate your space, in which case you put him down. Be persistant and don't end the conversation without getting your points across, even if this fustrates him. Show no fear. btw, you WANT him to violate your space in school if he won't try to resolve the issue without violence. He has no time to gather up friends, gather a weapon, or prepare fully, giving you a better chance at defending yourself. 

*Conclusion* The above should help you get by. Remember, your objective is to resolve the conflict, not "fight." If you keep your eye on your objective, then you can avoid inadvertently being the instigator. Also, don't negate good self defense. Make sure your friends and possibly the school staff, parents, martial arts instructors, and whoever know that there is a problem. Tell people you trust who will try to help you, not people who will make matters worse. Use your own judgement on this one, because I know that sometimes telling a teacher can cause you more trouble in the long run.

I find, though, that if your able to communicate your 5 points to whoever is causing a problem, 9 out of 10 times it will resolve before going to blows.

One last word: You have nothing to be afraid of. The worst thing that could happend is you get beat down. No big deal, really. So don't worry about a thing. So relax...and never show fear to a potential attacker.

Have fun, be safe, make the moral choice, and keep us posted.


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 27, 2004)

nice post Paul
:asian:


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## jellyman (Jan 28, 2004)

> but he's gonna definately keep bugging and bugging me.



So the problem (as yet) isn't violence, but that he is bugging you.

What's he doing exactly?


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## Nick Ellerton (Jan 28, 2004)

Hey josh.
Look dude iv been in ur position as have probably everyone else in these forums. And at this present moment in time i am in the same situation. Iv got a guy bagging my girlfriend. Everytime he does it i want to educate him in how good the martial arts is. but the reason why i do not was covered xtremely well by paul in that super long post. I am not involved in russian martial arts yet i am sure as it does with every other martial art teaches you how to not only use your body should you get into that sort of situation but teaches you to use your most important thing which is you mind to get out of that situation. if the guy wants to fight, so be it. but the thing is do you want to. if you want to dont bother asking the forum guys cos they will tell you what they think of the situation and you might not like it as far as i look at it dude your only creating more problems using your fists than you are using your mind but if your put in the position where you have to use it.....by all means. 
take care dude


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## Josh (Jan 28, 2004)

thanks everyone. hehe. yea, well i don't wanna fight, i mean, i spent all day today, trying to do all these systema exercises with relaxation and breathing, and it's all just crazy. we didn't fight, and i just told him "you win". I mean, he's got his friends that they all get to come down on me like that. Laugh, thinks it's funny when i get all mad. So Pissy. Weird stuff. I hate it. But naw, i really need to get to some Systema place. It'll be the best.

I mean man, i've seen a ton of systema clips and each person has his/her own style. Man, i don't know how they've done it.


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## Cruentus (Jan 28, 2004)

So Josh,

Do you have formal training somewhere, or no?

:asian:


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## Josh (Jan 28, 2004)

Hi Paul. Yess, i do indeed have all kinds of stuff i've been training in. Of course, Systema, even though i haven't been to a class, i have tons of videos and i've learned how to move my body. Ki Washi and Dan Zan Ryu Jujitsu. Some Karate. Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Tae Kwon Jujitsu. Fun Stuff. Tai Jutsu, Ninjutsu stuff blended in with the Jujitsu classes. But yea, i'm gonna pay a whole lot to Russian Martial Art. It's great. I mean you learn EVERYTHING and in weeks you can fight. Litterally. I've talked with some folks who in just one month, learned so much. 

Cause of course, no rituals, no katas, no belts. Pure defense and all kinds of Relaxation, Form, Breathing, Moving, Evasive. You name it. People have called it more than just a martial art. It's way out there.


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## Cruentus (Jan 28, 2004)

Let me reframe my question.

Do you train with an instructor, on a consistant basis? If so, what is your primary art? How many times a week do you train with your instructor? How many weeks/months/years have you been training?

So video experience aside, what is your experience?

This just helps me get a point of reference.

PAUL

:asian:


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## NYCRonin (Jan 28, 2004)

I am sorry but, in your enthusiasm; it seems you have developed a rather inaccurate idea of what really training in Systema entails.
Videos and conversations alone will not provide you with what you seem to be looking for. 
I dont seek to discourage you...but it is the truth, and this you should know.

Systema, for all of its practical wisdom; will not make you a 'fighter' in weeks of practice. This is an unrealistic evaluation.
Basic self protection skills can be learned fairly quickly but attempting to be a Systema 'fighter' is to miss the message by a long shot.


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## Josh (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi folks. Yes, I train in Jujitsu 2 nights a week. 

And i guess the clips make systema look good. And speaking of which, NYCRonin, if by any chance you have some footage of you or someone you work with, could i see some??  that's IF ya got some. Thanks.


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## Clive (Jan 29, 2004)

NYCRonin, or RobG as you may know him, features on the strikes film, n'est pas?

I think he can be seen being hurt by Michael on a couple of occasions.:btg:


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## Clive (Jan 29, 2004)

Josh, IMO, I agree that you should avoid this confrontation as much as possible but sometimes a man has to do what a man has to do.

:argue:


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## NYCRonin (Jan 29, 2004)

Clive is correct - I do catch a few from Mikhail Ryabco on the 'STRIKES" video and show up, from time to time; on clips that other Systema sites feature. (Mostly getting destroyed by Mikhail).

I dont collect 'clips' Josh - and its assured that I have some small experience with Systema...shouldnt take too much effort to verify this fact. 

As stated earlier, your enthusiasm for the art seems to have given you a less than accurate understanding of Systema, its principles and how they are applied - not only to interpersonal conflict but to life itself, in general.

The post that started this indicates that you are involved in a 'schoolboy fight' -- such things are fueled by insecurity, fear and ego. If you were actively involved in Systema training, the post would never have taken place. Your understanding of what we 'do' would be very different.

There are things you cannot learn from a video -- maturity, skill and confidence are amongst these things.

As many have said above -- you should re-consider any such 'fight'. Regardless of who 'wins' -- such things rarely produce any 'good' for all involved.


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## Josh (Jan 29, 2004)

Oh yea, i know that of course, Systema is a definite MORE THAN PHYSICAL type of art. Teaching you to relax, not hate, and of course. Yes, i just wanna get some training. The whole controling adrenaline thing is awesome. I mean, you're like wind, just moving in and out, dealing with all kinds of attacks from the other person who depending on whether they're trained or not, are like a rock. I mean, man, just that, over the 2 years that i've been in all that i can involved with RMA, and of course, i have ONLY seen clips. But that's good to me. I love watching ya'll do your natural evasions, crazy moves and it's just sweet. And i love how that yea, peopel tell of their using it in real life testimonies. 

This question is to NYCRonin: Now you're a cop, jail guard, security type of guy right?? I mean, and i know you do feel safe with systema under your belt. And that's the beauty of it all. I mean, you got this powerful relaxation method that indeed, gives you an edge. That's all i'm talking about. When it's time to dance dirty with the folks, you're ready. Ready to be fluent. 

I mean, i used Systema in Jujitsu class tonight. When in randori, i went to grab for my partener, he of course is really good and fast, he got my arm and just went to dropping and i kept rollin, trying to relax. And all i want is to be able to do this more and more. I mean, lets say i'm where one of you guys are. Ya'll are pretty good. I'm still not gonna teach it in this guy's school. That would be the most disrespectful thing. I just gotta shield it all. 

I mean, i love seeing everyone's OWN style of Systema. I mean, for example, in Ken J Goods case. He's a Tactical, swat, Police guy. And systema in this form looks good. And it IS good. You don't FIGHT and WRESTLE for your weapons, you relax and just do any regular movement. But i mean, man, yea, any art that you do, just learn how to move. 

I do have a question though, what differences are in TaiJutsu and Systema? I don't know, it's all sweet. But yea, that was longer than i intended, but yea. Ya'll beat me. I get what ya'll are sayin. Thanks.


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## Josh (Feb 5, 2004)

man ya'll. this isn't cool. i'm still having to deal with this guy. and it sucks because i'm in Adrenaline Mode 24/7. i can't relax. what are your thoughts?


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## mscroggins (Feb 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Josh _
> *man ya'll. this isn't cool. i'm still having to deal with this guy. and it sucks because i'm in Adrenaline Mode 24/7. i can't relax. what are your thoughts? *



Do Squats and pushups. 20 seconds or so down, then 20 seconds or so up.

Repeat this until your muscle shake and protest loudly, and don't forget to breathe the entire time. 

You WILL be relax, and you will learn alot about how your body is structured.


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## Josh (Feb 6, 2004)

hi mscroggins. yea, those are good, but uncomfortable. thanks though.


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## Rich Parsons (Feb 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by mscroggins _
> *Do Squats and pushups. 20 seconds or so down, then 20 seconds or so up.
> 
> Repeat this until your muscle shake and protest loudly, and don't forget to breathe the entire time.
> ...



Welcome mscroggins,

I hope you enjoy your stay here at Martial Talk.

Any questions just post them or ask a staff member.

Thank You
:asian:


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## Cruentus (Feb 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Josh _
> *man ya'll. this isn't cool. i'm still having to deal with this guy. and it sucks because i'm in Adrenaline Mode 24/7. i can't relax. what are your thoughts? *



Hey Josh. Maybe be a little more specific? How exactly are you having to deal with this guy, and how is this putting you in adrinaline mode?

Name some specific situations, maybe.


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## Josh (Feb 8, 2004)

hey Paul. Thanks for sticking around to be concerned with it. That's Martial Arts 101 in my book. Thanks a bunch. I mean, i have no peace. 

Everyday, or almost everday, there's like 3 of them, mostly just the one though, and they're always laughing, pointing, staring. It's so uncomfortable. And i become helpless. I can't relax, my heartbeat races too fast, i get sweaty, it's pathetic. It's like he thinks he owns me or something. And it's just me, he doesn't bother even talking to the people beside me. I'm tired of it. It bothers me, even when i'm not there.


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## Quick Sand (Feb 8, 2004)

Unfortunately, part of that is just being in High School. I'd be willing to bet that almost everyone on this forum had some kind of issues in their mid teens. I got made fun of and stuff too. Personally though, I'd say ignore it. 

I know it sucks but if it's any consulation, most of the people I knew in high school that were kind of bullies like that, didn't do so well after high school. He might be trying to cover the fact that he doesn't do well in school or something like that, I don't know. All I know that now when I go home to visit I see those people working deadend jobs and those of us that were on the recieveing end, well, I'm about to graduate from one of the top universities in Canada and I'm going on to do training for a good career. 

He's probably looking for a reaction from you so if you don't give him one, he'll probably get bored soon and move on to someone else. 

Just my experience.


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## Cruentus (Feb 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Josh _
> *hey Paul. Thanks for sticking around to be concerned with it. That's Martial Arts 101 in my book. Thanks a bunch. I mean, i have no peace.
> 
> Everyday, or almost everday, there's like 3 of them, mostly just the one though, and they're always laughing, pointing, staring. It's so uncomfortable. And i become helpless. I can't relax, my heartbeat races too fast, i get sweaty, it's pathetic. It's like he thinks he owns me or something. And it's just me, he doesn't bother even talking to the people beside me. I'm tired of it. It bothers me, even when i'm not there. *



Ahhh....

So he is putting you in 'adrinaline mode' because he is making you angry by being a dickhead on a day to day basis. I understand now.

Unfortunatily, there is no shortage of *******s in this world. It doesn't really improve when you get older; the dynamics just change.

People talking about you behind yor back, or worse, right in front of you, but so you can't hear them...this will happend no matter who you are and where you go. When you get older, if you happend to get an office job, you'll find that office politics are about the same as high school. In social situations there is always that one guy or girl nearby who trys to compete with you, talk bad about you, or whatever. I have even heard elderly people talk about this and that, and I find that the politics in an old folks home or the bingo hall is about the level of maturity of a high school. This is something that will never change.

What does change, and that you can look forward too, is the environment. As an adult, you have more control over who you can surround yourself with. In high school, you are basically taking a bunch of teenagers, many with very little in common, and forcing them to go to a building that they would most likely rather not be in for 7 hours every day for nine months. Some of these people you are basically forced to grow up with as they follow you for about 12 years through grade school, to middle school, then to high school. In this kind of environment, the sniping and backbiting can be much more cruel, and much more fustrating to deal with. You can look forward to having more choices as too who you surround yourself with when you are out of high school for sure.

Solution?? Well, unless he trys to physically harm you, fighting is out of the picture. So, you are now forced to deal with it through non-violent means. Look at this as a good learning experience, and a good test of your tenacity and intestinal fortitude. How you handle it nonviolently will depend on you. There is no surefire way to deal with annoying people. There are a couple things you can do that will make your life easier, though. The #1 thing you can do is don't give him any control over your emotions. If he "makes you angry" or "upsets you" then you have given him control. Don't do it.  I put "makes you angry" in quotes because as much as I hate to admit this, no one can "make" us do anything when it comes to our emotions. We are in control of our emotions whether we realize it or not. His actions are annoying, but you can control whether you choose to let it make you angry or not. In almost every case, if you are able to change your outlook on the circumstance, your emotions will follow. An example would be if your outlook is "He is talking about me and making me look stupid in front of everyone!" this can change too "He's talking about me because he is insecure about himself. No one really cares that much about what he has to say, and I don't care about what he or anyone else thinks about me anyways. By talking about me he only looks like a dick. As long as I handle it without getting pissed, he'll look stupid rather then me." As you can see, when you realize that you have control over your outlook on things, then you can then see that you also can control your emotions.

So, the best thing you can do is not let it bother you. Yes...I know that this cliche', and easier said then done. How you handle it will depend on what is most comfortable to you. If your more introverted, ignoring him might be the best choice for you. I am so extroverted that I would draw even more attention to the situation so they would be embarrassed. If someone was talking about me and laughing with their friends I'd yell something out like, "Wow! Your all starring me up and down and giggling with your friends like a bunch of school girls. Don't be shy...if you want to date me, just ask! " That solution wouldn't work for everyone, but it worked well for me.  Sure, this would be poor self defense to do as an adult towards a bunch of strangers, but in a high school situation it is fine. 

Bottom line: when you can control your emotions, then you will be able to come up with the best solution regarding the circumstance.

heh...try to have fun with this one! 

PAUL


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## Nick Ellerton (Feb 9, 2004)

dude bottomline is if this guy is still annoying you and ur still whinning about it thump the ever loving piss out of him and ull prolly feel a lot better


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## Josh (Feb 9, 2004)

hey guys. thanks again. yea, i just want it all to chill. later.


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