# Some questions regarding self defense



## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

If your attacker is running full throttle at you with the intention of knocking you down what should you do? There is not enough time to run away, he has caught you by surprise. Let's say he succeeds in knocking you on the ground and has his knees on your elbows and is having fun hitting you in the face. What can you do to get out of this debacle. Somebody I worked with suggested bringing your knees up and hitting his back with them, causing him to get knocked off you, as his weight is forward. I have a hard time believing this would work, than again I know almost nothing about groundfighting, the guy on the ground in this scenario was me in 8th grade! All informed suggestions appreciated.


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## redantstyle (Jan 22, 2009)

dont let him knock you down.

it doesn't take much to either evade or interrupt an attack like that.  

just time it right and take an angled sidestep just before he reaches you and push, strike, sweep, etc.  the timing is crucial.  move swiftly when he is one step away.

or strike the knee of his advancing leg when he gets in range.

this second option can be a bit dangerous, so use caution in training.

regards.

JMBarr
RedAnt Gung Fu


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2009)

Step to the side and let there momentum take it course.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

I stood there like a deer looking at headlights and got knocked down. I didn't know how to do anything back than except really amateurish wide punches, didn't know how to fight. I know a lot more now, thanks for your advice.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

not that  i have had many fights in my lifetime, and i dont know exactly what id do in that situation, in that time and place. i play rugby, i know it isnt a martial art, but ive learnt from rugby that if someoe is charging at you, if you cant get out of the way, the best thing to do is to meet the charge head on, brace yourself and steel youself to take the smash. even if you get took down, your took down on your terms. but ive only everhad this happen to me in a rugby situation, not a dangerous real life situation.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Step to the side and let there momentum take it course.


 
Joab: Well, that's worth trying, but having played football, its not all that hard to tackle somebody who steps aside as you run towards them. But thanks, it might work.


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> I stood there like a deer looking at headlights and got knocked down. I didn't know how to do anything back than except really amateurish wide punches, didn't know how to fight. I know a lot more now, thanks for your advice.


 
Aot of folks have that deer syndrome until they get proper training. Glad your training is paying off for you.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> not that i have had many fights in my lifetime, and i dont know exactly what id do in that situation, in that time and place. i play rugby, i know it isnt a martial art, but ive learnt from rugby that if someoe is charging at you, if you cant get out of the way, the best thing to do is to meet the charge head on, brace yourself and steel youself to take the smash. even if you get took down, your took down on your terms. but ive only everhad this happen to me in a rugby situation, not a dangerous real life situation.


 
Joab:That might work now, I'm big, a little too big at 260 pounds, not kilos, and wide, I was very skinny back than and the guy running towards me was much stronger.


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> Joab: Well, that's worth trying, but having played football, its not all that hard to tackle somebody who steps aside as you run towards them. But thanks, it might work.


 
True but the last time a saw a drunk in a bar running at someone to take them down they sure was not thinking about proper football tackling. I have actually just stepped to the side and help with a push in the back so they would fall on there face.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Aot of folks have that deer syndrome until they get proper training. Glad your training is paying off for you.


 
Joab: I'm bigger and more confident now, and I'm not in junior high anymore, live in a small town, never get hassled. Don't know if my training has done any good besides confidence, no one has attacked me since I got into it.


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## Drac (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> Let's say he succeeds in knocking you on the ground and has his knees on your elbows and is having fun hitting you in the face. What can you do to get out of this debacle. Somebody I worked with suggested bringing your knees up and hitting his back with them, causing him to get knocked off you, as his weight is forward. I have a hard time believing this would work, than again I know almost nothing about groundfighting, the guy on the ground in this scenario was me in 8th grade! All informed suggestions appreciated.


 
You are on your back? Do a pelvic thrust causing him to lose his balance and concentrate on not falling forward and the pressure on your elbows should decrease long enough for you to wrap your arms around this thighs and twist the guy off..


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> True but the last time a saw a drunk in a bar running at someone to take them down they sure was not thinking about proper football tackling. I have actually just stepped to the side and help with a push in the back so they would fall on there face.


 
Joab: He was drunk, its not hard to defeat somebody who is drunk, their motor skills are shot.


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> Joab: I'm bigger and more confident now, and I'm not in junior high anymore, live in a small town, never get hassled. Don't know if my training has done any good besides confidence, no one has attacked me since I got into it.


 
Confidence in one ability has a great value when and if the time ever happens again. I hope you may never have to find out. I envy the fact you live ina small town, wish I was there with you.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

Drac said:


> You are on your back? Do a pelvic thrust causing him to lose his balance and concentrate on not falling forward and the pressure on your elbows should decrease long enough for you to wrap your arms around this thighs and twist the guy off..


 
Joab: That's a good idea, does that come out of 
BJJ? Just curious, I want to take it some day. Thanks.


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## overunder (Jan 22, 2009)

ive been insituations when i freeze. its horrible. your minds telling you to do something but you just cant do it. 
as terryl965terryl965 said, alot of people have the deer in the headligts thing. i think people over come it with cnfidence or pure need.
the confidence probly comes with training and stuff. i think im gonna have to get some training going, but rugby is very good for building confidence. 
you dont even relay need to be that big when having someone charging at you to hold your ground, ust kind of dig your heels in. but as i say again, ive only had this happen to me on a rugby pitch. not in real life. in real life  suppose if its a bad enough situation, your brain will take over and it will know what to do.


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## Joab (Jan 22, 2009)

terryl965 said:


> Confidence in one ability has a great value when and if the time ever happens again. I hope you may never have to find out. I envy the fact you live ina small town, wish I was there with you.


 
Joab: yeah, confidence has kept me out of a lot of fights over the years. Its a nice little town that nobody in the area seems to know about, very wooded, rural, my wife and I are blessed.


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## Drac (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> Joab: That's a good idea, does that come out of
> BJJ? Just curious, I want to take it some day. Thanks.


 
I don't know WHERE it originated.The ICHF has a real good Ground Survival Program...


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 22, 2009)

Joab said:


> Let's say he succeeds in knocking you on the ground and has his knees on your elbows and is having fun hitting you in the face. What can you do to get out of this debacle.


 
Pull your Spyderco folder from your back pocket and gig him in the kidneys. Repeat as needed till get gets off you.

Deaf


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## terryl965 (Jan 22, 2009)

overunder said:


> ive been insituations when i freeze. its horrible. your minds telling you to do something but you just cant do it.
> as terryl965terryl965 said, alot of people have the deer in the headligts thing. i think people over come it with cnfidence or pure need.
> the confidence probly comes with training and stuff. i think im gonna have to get some training going, but rugby is very good for building confidence.
> you dont even relay need to be that big when having someone charging at you to hold your ground, ust kind of dig your heels in. but as i say again, ive only had this happen to me on a rugby pitch. not in real life. in real life suppose if its a bad enough situation, your brain will take over and it will know what to do.


 
Rugby man that is one tough sport.


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## mook jong man (Jan 22, 2009)

As he runs in , step 45 degrees , and do a roundhouse knee to the bladder region , whilst grabbing him on the shoulder or arm with both hands to amplify the force of your knee strike . 

If you get mounted like that with some one high up on your chest with their knees on your arms that is a very bad situation to be in and it means that you have made some mistakes leading up to that point . 

When you go down try to keep them in your guard , if you are mounted keep your elbows in so they can't move up high on your chest , and start bridgeing like crazy so they can't have a stable platform to hit you or get themselves settled on you .

 But like the other guy said I would probably try to bridge and then get my arms out , then bury my head in his stomach and pull him down and roll him . 

But I was in that situation you describe when I was about 10 or 12 on the ground with a kid on top of me and if I remember correctly I think I spat in his face , it gave just enough distraction to enable me to struggle free , and then I went after him with half a house brick , hey he was a big guy and I don't fight fair .


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## jarrod (Jan 23, 2009)

honestly it's difficult to pick up a trick here & there when it comes to ground fighting.  either add some training, or focus on staying on your feet.  that will serve you much better than trying to remember a tip you read on the internet, imho.

jf


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## thetruth (Jan 23, 2009)

For something very simple try putting both hands on your head so both of your elbows are facing forward (preferably one elbow protecting the centre of your face) and charge towards them. Your elbows slamming into them will certainly put the wind up them as to whether they wish to continue.  If you cannot move forward just establishing some kind of base and allowing them to run into your elbows is also effective.  Your hands in this position also protect your face from incoming strikes.

Just a thought
Cheers
Sam:asian:


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## K-man (Jan 23, 2009)

Off the line is the way to go. That's why we practise tsabaki. Depending on the situation you can move in or back. Either way you should have a shot at the ribs, neck or legs, depending on how nasty you need to be.


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## searcher (Jan 23, 2009)

An earlier post brought up rugby, I would have done it like a good running back in football.   Stiff-arm in the gonzo.


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## MJS (Jan 23, 2009)

Joab said:


> If your attacker is running full throttle at you with the intention of knocking you down what should you do? There is not enough time to run away, he has caught you by surprise. Let's say he succeeds in knocking you on the ground and has his knees on your elbows and is having fun hitting you in the face. What can you do to get out of this debacle. Somebody I worked with suggested bringing your knees up and hitting his back with them, causing him to get knocked off you, as his weight is forward. I have a hard time believing this would work, than again I know almost nothing about groundfighting, the guy on the ground in this scenario was me in 8th grade! All informed suggestions appreciated.


 
I would suggest sidestepping if possible and attempting a kick. However, if you are knocked to the ground, the first you're going to have to do, is recover from the initial takedown, and do your best to put yourself into the best position possible. 

Now, if someone is putting their knees on your arms, their body weight is going to be on your chest. This is really no different than having someone mounted on you with their knees high up under your arms. If they succeed in gaining this position, it will be very hard to get them off of you. As far as hitting them in the back with your knees, don't bother as it will not work. Now, let me clarify that. If you are able to reach them, IMO, it really won't be that effective of a hit, as you'll be hitting more with your leg, than with the knee. Your best bet would be to keep both feet on the ground and bump them by bridging onto your shoulders. This should make them fall forward.

I would suggest doing your best to keep your elbows down. This should help in preventing them from moving up onto your chest. Now, from that position, it is possible to bump them, by raising your hips. Securing an arm as well as one of their legs with yours, you should now be able to bridge them off of you. Example

My advise would be to enroll in a good BJJ school. The escapes will make much more sense if you can actually see them live and get the fine points.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Joab said:


> If your attacker is running full throttle at you with the intention of knocking you down what should you do? There is not enough time to run away, he has caught you by surprise. Let's say he succeeds in knocking you on the ground and has his knees on your elbows and is having fun hitting you in the face. What can you do to get out of this debacle. Somebody I worked with suggested bringing your knees up and hitting his back with them, causing him to get knocked off you, as his weight is forward. I have a hard time believing this would work, than again I know almost nothing about groundfighting, the guy on the ground in this scenario was me in 8th grade! All informed suggestions appreciated.



That's ALL going to depend on a lot more variables than that.

if what you're asking is if you should start working on ground fighting.....the answer is 'YES'!


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## Joab (Jan 23, 2009)

Drac said:


> I don't know WHERE it originated.The ICHF has a real good Ground Survival Program...


 
Joab: What's the ICHF?


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## Joab (Jan 23, 2009)

sgtmac_46 said:


> That's ALL going to depend on a lot more variables than that.
> 
> if what you're asking is if you should start working on ground fighting.....the answer is 'YES'!


 
Joab: Easier said than done, the martial arts community in my area doesn't offer a lot of that, at least not that I'm aware of. I live near Dover, Delaware, if anybody knows of any ground fighting schools in the area please let me know, I'm new to the area.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

Joab said:


> Joab: Easier said than done, the martial arts community in my area doesn't offer a lot of that, at least not that I'm aware of. I live near Dover, Delaware, if anybody knows of any ground fighting schools in the area please let me know, I'm new to the area.



If all else fails search the internet for some seminars you can make it to, get some books and videos, even some free online videos show some decent techniques, find a buddy and work out with.....where there's a will there's a way.

That's actually how I started WAAAAYYYYYY back in 1993 and I saw my first UFC......NOBODY in Missouri even knew what grappling was (at least in my area of the state)....Tkd was about it for martial arts.......well, I got books, and videos and a group of buddies, and we twisted and rolled each other in the back yard.

Several years later I found formal training in Judo and BJJ (among many other arts i've been exposed to)......and while there's nothing better than formal training, where there's a will there's a way, and a lot of informal training is MUCH better than nothing......

.....and asking the kind of questions you're asking here aren't bad either......


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## tellner (Jan 23, 2009)

I also played rugby. The basic reflex it gives you is a good one. Get low. Get lower. Brace. Keep good structure. It doesn't matter if you get pushed backwards as long as you stay on your feet.

That might be all you can do in an "Oh ****!" moment. It's a lot better than doing nothing.

If you're really caught flat footed and go down tuck your head and close your mouth - biting through your own tongue really cramps your style.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jan 23, 2009)

tellner said:


> I also played rugby. The basic reflex it gives you is a good one. Get low. Get lower. Brace. Keep good structure. It doesn't matter if you get pushed backwards as long as you stay on your feet.
> 
> That might be all you can do in an "Oh ****!" moment. It's a lot better than doing nothing.
> 
> If you're really caught flat footed and go down tuck your head and close your mouth - biting through your own tongue really cramps your style.


 Yeah, biting through your own tongue would be a real *****!


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## Joab (Jan 23, 2009)

MJS said:


> I would suggest sidestepping if possible and attempting a kick. However, if you are knocked to the ground, the first you're going to have to do, is recover from the initial takedown, and do your best to put yourself into the best position possible.
> 
> Now, if someone is putting their knees on your arms, their body weight is going to be on your chest. This is really no different than having someone mounted on you with their knees high up under your arms. If they succeed in gaining this position, it will be very hard to get them off of you. As far as hitting them in the back with your knees, don't bother as it will not work. Now, let me clarify that. If you are able to reach them, IMO, it really won't be that effective of a hit, as you'll be hitting more with your leg, than with the knee. Your best bet would be to keep both feet on the ground and bump them by bridging onto your shoulders. This should make them fall forward.
> 
> ...


 Joab: I don't know of any such schools in my area, Dover, Delaware, but thanks for the advice.


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## martial09k (Feb 1, 2009)

Guys talking bout self defense, here's some cool reality based seld defence videos i'd like to share with you... i tried to learn some things from these vids 





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRM1R5QBZnk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BkBpi-16es&feature=related




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4HTTRGpd94&feature=channel


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