# The Perfect Fighter?



## Dragon Fist (Jan 9, 2005)

Hello fellow Martial Artists.

In MMA, we all strive to be the perfect complete fighter.
Here is my question,
*If you could master* *5 different styles of combative arts* (Martial Arts, Wrestling, Boxing etc...)
*Which one would they be and why?*

For example.

*Muay Thai* - _for stand up fighting_
*Aikido* - _for take downs and take down defense_
*Judo* - _for takedowns/Submissions_
*Wrestling* - _for ground control and positioning_
*BJJ* - _for submissions and submission defense_


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## MJS (Jan 9, 2005)

In no certain order.

1- Kenpo:  An excellent stand up art that provides many responses to various attacks.

2- BJJ:  Ground work, submissions, takedowns, etc.

3- Muay Thai: Excellent stand up as well as kicking.

4- Boxing:  To improve on punching skills.

5- Any of the FMAs:  Arnis, Kali, Pekiti Tirsia, etc.:  Excellent weapon defense, as well as some devastating empty hand skills.

Mike


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## Dragon Fist (Jan 10, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> 5- Any of the FMAs: Arnis, Kali, Pekiti Tirsia, etc.: Excellent weapon defense, as well as some devastating empty hand skills.
> 
> Mike


This is a good one Mike


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## SammyB57 (Jan 11, 2005)

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> Hello fellow Martial Artists.
> 
> In MMA, we all strive to be the perfect complete fighter.
> Here is my question,
> ...


Aikido doesnt have the takedowns or takedown defense suitable to MMA.


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## Kenpodoc (Jan 11, 2005)

1. Kenpo - stand up fighting
2. Benny Urquidez Kick Boxing - Good practical ring skills and training regimen
3. Gokor Chivichyan - Ground Fighting
4. Systema - Self defense including weapons defense
5. 1 - 4 should be enough

Jeff


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## MJS (Jan 11, 2005)

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> This is a good one Mike



Thank you! :asian: 

Mike


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## Erik (Jan 11, 2005)

1 - Muay Thai for the hands, elbows, knees, and striking while in the clinch as well as for learning to take strikes.
 2 - Greco-Roman wrestling for the takedowns against someone without a jacket.
 3 - Submission Wrestling (or gi-less BJJ) for all the groundwork, including positional heirarchy and submissions, and the leg takedowns. 

 That's it.


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## Dragon Fist (Jan 11, 2005)

Erik said:
			
		

> 1 - Muay Thai for the hands, elbows, knees, and striking while in the clinch as well as for learning to take strikes.
> 2 - Greco-Roman wrestling for the takedowns against someone without a jacket.
> 3 - Submission Wrestling (or gi-less BJJ) for all the groundwork, including positional heirarchy and submissions, and the leg takedowns.
> 
> That's it.


What about weapons defense?


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## SammyB57 (Jan 11, 2005)

MMA = no weapons.
Real Life = no realistic way to stop a knife without a shield or a gun.


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## MJS (Jan 12, 2005)

SammyB57 said:
			
		

> MMA = no weapons.



True



> Real Life = no realistic way to stop a knife without a shield or a gun.



We need to remember that not every fight we get ourselves into is going to be against someone with a ton of training.  We really don't know what the persons fight skill is like until the fight has begun.  Of course, anytime one is faced with a weapon, getting away is the first priority.  If that is not an option, getting an equalizer, IE: Anything that you can use to aid in your defense against the knife, should be the next priority.  Is it hard to defend empty hand against a bladed weapon? Yes.  Is it impossible? No.

Mike


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## Kempojujutsu (Jan 12, 2005)

I believe the questions was about MMA not realistic training.

 I would agree with Erik here.
1 - Muay Thai for the hands, elbows, knees, and striking while in the clinch as well as for learning to take strikes.
2 - Greco-Roman wrestling for the takedowns against someone without a jacket.
3 - Submission Wrestling (or gi-less BJJ) for all the groundwork, including positional heirarchy and submissions, and the leg takedowns. 

May add a touch of Kempo/kenpo and or Boxing along with some BJJ. If I have to pick 5 arts. If not the original 3 will do.


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## RanaHarmamelda (Jan 12, 2005)

Heh -- seen this before, always fun to do...

1. Kickboxing, for good strike skills.
2. Judo, for throws, groundwork, etc.
3. FMA, for weapons primarily.
4. Tai Chi, for health, philosophy, and more fun stuff.
5. Old school JJJ, similar reasons to Tai Chi.

I include the bottom two because, in all honesty, at least #'s 1 and 2 are more reliant on younger, healthier bodies. The lower two will hold me in good stead at older ages. FMA are just awesome.

Edit: I didn't include anything on guns, although I think that's an important element of modern fighting, simply because it seemed like we were more focused on more 'traditional' fighting in this thread. *grin*


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## Erik (Jan 13, 2005)

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> What about weapons defense?


Whoops.  Forgot about that while posting.

 Gosh, I guess a mixture of FMA (for the knife & stick) and track and field (to get the heck out of there) ought to do it.

 But do we mean MMA like the sport?  Or MMA like actually mixed martial arts covering all sorts of different types of engagements.


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## Dragon Fist (Jan 13, 2005)

Erik said:
			
		

> Whoops. Forgot about that while posting.
> 
> Gosh, I guess a mixture of FMA (for the knife & stick) and track and field (to get the heck out of there) ought to do it.
> 
> But do we mean MMA like the sport? Or MMA like actually mixed martial arts covering all sorts of different types of engagements.


all types of engagements, sorry forgot to mention that


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## ace (Jan 13, 2005)

1. Shoot Wrestling (Mauy Thai & Submission Wrestling)
2. Arnis ( F.M.A.)
3. Wrestling for Endurance & Strenth
4. Ju Jitsu
5. J.K.D. Having no way & No Limitation


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## BlackCatBonz (Jan 13, 2005)

1. kempo
2. western boxing
3. greco-roman wrestling
4. systema
5. arnis

personally i think my number one has it all right now......but that simply has to do with the way you train.

shawn


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## BlackCatBonz (Jan 13, 2005)

SammyB57 said:
			
		

> Real Life = no realistic way to stop a knife without a shield or a gun.


i think i would have to disagree with this point.......its all in the training

shawn


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## pnoy_kickfighter (Jun 24, 2005)

Dragon Fist said:
			
		

> Hello fellow Martial Artists.
> 
> In MMA, we all strive to be the perfect complete fighter.
> Here is my question,
> ...


 


 1. Boxing- for punching
 2. Tae Kwon Do- for kicking
 3. BJJ- for submission and submission defense
 4. Judo- for takedowns
 5. Arnis-for weapon offense and defense


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## Shogun (Jun 24, 2005)

I dont really believe learning any three styles can make anyone a good fighter but I'll put them down for thread's sake.

BTW, I practice most of these anyways. I will post them in order of a typical fight pattern, starting with Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu as a base (because of its range of techniques and specializations)

BBT- see above
Sayoc Kali - Weapon defense zoning and weapon angles
Aiki No Michi - Entering, off-balancing, throws
Greco roman wrestling - upper body Takedowns 
GJJ - Ground control and finishing techniques


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## silatman (Jun 25, 2005)

Muay Thai - For the toughness
Judo - For throws, takedowns, chokes
Pentjak Silat - Devestating hand techniques
Kali Silat - Body angulation, weapon defence and attack
BJJ - Groundwork, submissions.

Just call him Sir.


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## FearlessFreep (Jun 25, 2005)

_Why kick somebody in the head, you wouldn't punch them in the big toe!_

Punching in the toe doesn't lead to a knock-out, missing teeth, etc... too often


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## jkdhit (Jun 26, 2005)

in no particular order..

 aikido
 tai chi
 chi kung
 jeet kune do
 shinkage ryu


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## Troy Ostapiw/Canada (Jul 15, 2005)

1)Muay Thai:- great striking ability.



2)Kune Tao:-great close quarter work for spontaneous assaults.



3)Modern arnis:-develops a simplistic approach to dealing with modern weapons.



4)BJJ:- solid grappling skills, good ground work (Modified for the street).



5)NSI Natural spirit Combatives: A Practical modern approach to self-defence that looks at street psychology, emotional climate training, based on sound tactics that have proven to work in todays environment. NSI.


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## hwarang (Jul 27, 2005)

SammyB57 said:
			
		

> MMA = no weapons.
> Real Life = no realistic way to stop a knife without a shield or a gun.


How many knife fights have you been in mr. expert?


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## hwarang (Jul 27, 2005)

FearlessFreep said:
			
		

> _Why kick somebody in the head, you wouldn't punch them in the big toe!_
> 
> Punching in the toe doesn't lead to a knock-out, missing teeth, etc... too often


true a punch to the toe doesnt result to injury..but a kick the the face does... see the difference?


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## silatman (Aug 8, 2005)

If that is directed at me the comment relates to the distance to the target v's the weapon of choice. Moving a shin up to the face is a lot longer journey than the fingers to the eyes for example, in silat we are taught fast multiple strikes that will disrupt the brain so that a finishing move can be applied and effeciency of motion is a major focus of our training, Regardless of the power of a kick to the head, an elbow hurts too, I would only use it if the head happened to be the closest thing to my shin. To do otherwise in my system and IMO would be an error of judgement in a real life encounter.


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## Shogun (Aug 9, 2005)

I'm gonna re-do mine:

Sayoc Kali or Inosanto blend - Weapons, zoning, patterns, boxing, trapping
Gracie Jiu Jitsu - punch defense, ground (sweeps, reversals, positioning), and clinching
Shuai Chiao - Takedowns, throws, and slams
Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu - as a base. it has a very wide range of technique
Muay Thai - clinching, knees, elbows, box patterns

but I wouldn't neglect Wing chun, Capoiera, catch wrestling, Judo, Iaijutsu, Tai chi, etc, they all have something to offer.


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## Kane (Aug 11, 2005)

5 styles for the perfect fighter;

*  Western Boxing*: For superior punching ability as well as a strong stance.

*  Western Wrestling*: For superior stand-up grappling as well as superior ground grappling control.

*  Muay Thai*: For superior kicking skills as well as superior knees and elbows.

*  BJJ*: For superior ground submissions skills.

*  Kalaripayattu*: The first eastern martial art, for powerful pressure point takedowns and the unmatched agility and flexibility of any martial art.


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## Marginal (Aug 12, 2005)

silatman said:
			
		

> If that is directed at me the comment relates to the distance to the target v's the weapon of choice. Moving a shin up to the face is a lot longer journey than the fingers to the eyes for example, in silat we are taught fast multiple strikes that will disrupt the brain so that a finishing move can be applied and effeciency of motion is a major focus of our training, Regardless of the power of a kick to the head, an elbow hurts too, I would only use it if the head happened to be the closest thing to my shin. To do otherwise in my system and IMO would be an error of judgement in a real life encounter.


Well really, if you wanted to use a high kick effectively, you'd probably set it up in a similar way. Throwing one as the opening shot's not a great idea, but if you've hit them with a punch etc and they're just trying to back out of the range of your hands, there's your potential finisher. They're in range, distracted by your hands and not likely to be watching for (or notice) a rear leg kick before it's on them which makes the speed issue less of a problem.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 12, 2005)

1. American Kenpo -- Very encompassing Stand-Up game.

2. Systema -- Very Encompassing Overall

3. Vee Arnis Jitsu -- Very Encompassing Overall

4. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/Ju Jitsu -- Very Encompassing Grappling game

5. Greco-RomanWrestling -- Clinching, Takedowns and Control

The conditioning I can do on my own seperate from 'martial arts style'.

Or maybe I should have said EPAK, TKD, Kung-Fu, Ju-Jitsu, and Kickboxing LOL


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## Kenpo_man (Aug 13, 2005)

silatman said:
			
		

> If that is directed at me the comment relates to the distance to the target v's the weapon of choice. Moving a shin up to the face is a lot longer journey than the fingers to the eyes for example, in silat we are taught fast multiple strikes that will disrupt the brain so that a finishing move can be applied and effeciency of motion is a major focus of our training, Regardless of the power of a kick to the head, an elbow hurts too, I would only use it if the head happened to be the closest thing to my shin. To do otherwise in my system and IMO would be an error of judgement in a real life encounter.


Tell that to Mirko Crocop!


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 13, 2005)

SammyB57 said:
			
		

> MMA = no weapons.
> Real Life = no realistic way to stop a knife without a shield or a gun.


LOL LOL LOL.  From personal experience.........yes the knife can be stopped.  From personal experience...........no the shield or gun is not needed.  From personal experience......no one carries sheilds anymore except maybe riot cops and even a gun has to be aimed and shot before the knife cuts.  Seen the knife win that battle up close before to (i.e. cutting the gun carrying hand causing the gun to be dropped). Lastly The Filipino Martial Arts exponents have made careers off of teaching very effective (read: realisitc) ways of stopping a knife.  Oh yeah and they don't use a knife or gun either. LOL.  Statements like these always make me smile.  There are always people who think that something is an invinsible weapon. Be it a knife, a gun, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kenpo, JKD or whatever somebody always comes up with something that's "impossible" to be stopped. ROTFLMAO from experience as history has shown numerous cases where every fool proof weapon has been fooled.  Live and learn I guess.


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## CrushingFist (Aug 21, 2005)

1. Taijiquan 

2. Shaolin Kung Fu

3. BJJ

4. Muay Thai

5. Capoeira

why? cant explain


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## tradrockrat (Aug 29, 2005)

Two part response - 

 As for the intitial question:
 1. Thiang (think Muay Tai with better boxing skills)
 2. Russian Sambo (brutal initial attacks!)
 3. Greco Roman wrestling
 4. Bando Python system (ground fighting, grappling, chokes and locks)
 5. Escrima

 I list these because I have some (even if very little for some) experience in them and they fit my personality and physical abilities.  I'm sure that BJJ would be considered a better system than one or two on my list, but I don't like it, so it wouldn't be right for me...


 Part two - 

 Twice in my life I have faced a knife.  both times without a weapon of my own, and both times I won.  It's the Person, not the style.  I was better prepaired than them, and better trained.  Yes I got cut the second time, but I won.


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## Knarfan (Aug 29, 2005)

1.Muay tai
2.boxing
3.wrestling(as many styles as possible)
4.bjj
5.sayoc kali(or a well respected weapons system)

The reason that I list a weapons system is because IMO If you want to talk about developing the perfect fighter I think that weapons can't be ignored. It developes valuble awareness & sensitivity skills that most none weapons systems can't match(not to mention how it improves your emty hand skills). IMO.Especially if you are talking about a volatile street senario. One thing I do know is that you really should study a wide range of styles(tactics) & I think a list of 4 or 5 styles is a good plan.


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## ross3805 (Jan 24, 2006)

1- muay thai
2- boxing
3- free style wresling
4- no gi bjj

No need 4 a fifth


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