# Mental Health: MOST Neglected Part of Fitness (IMHO)



## wingchun100

I am going to be brave and put this out there because this is a part of who I am. Those who are open-minded will respond positively. Those who aren't...I don't bother with anyway.

I just wanted to say that MENTAL well-being is probably the most neglected part of training, whether it is in martial arts or anything else. Personally, I think that is because people are so busy running around doing all kinds of things that HAVE to get done, that they think they don't have the time to go sit on a therapist's couch and talk about their feelings or their damaged childhood or whatever for an hour a week.

Really? One hour per week? Look at it that way, and I am sure you could spare it.

Granted, some people might not even need therapy. Well, in that case...I am not speaking to those folks. I am speaking to those who might understand the things I am about to say about MY experience with mental health issues, which as of this moment (in the name of full disclosure) are undiagnosed. However, an evaluation is in process.

For many years I have often felt like something was "wrong" with me because I am unable to pick up on small social cues that most people seem to easily decipher. Unless someone says something to me bluntly, I don't get it. Let's say as an example, there is a woman I want to date, but she isn't interested. Instead of saying "you're not my type." she always makes up excuses as to why she is too busy to go out. In my mind, she must honestly just be THAT busy! (This type of thing happened more when I was younger. As I have gotten older, it has gotten easier for me to decipher this particular signal.)

I have also noticed that I have some things in common with people who are diagnosed with autism. There are some people who are so marginally on the spectrum that you might not even think there is anything going on. Yeah, that's me.

There was also a period of time where I would be driving to Wing Chun class, only to turn around when I was halfway there. Why? Because it felt like I was driving to work. I lost all interest in everything that I had previously been passionate about: writing, music, working out, and Wing Chun. Naturally, the culprit that I suspect in this scenario would be depression.

At any rate, my point in this whole ramble is that if you ever feel like this too, if you ever feel there is something "wrong" with you, if you find your interest waxing and waning, then you might want to consider the path I am currently taking. It can't hurt to get an evaluation done and find out there is NOTHING going on, after all. And once you have that answer, then you can eliminate those possibilities and move on to hopefully figure out what the issue truly is.

In closing, I want to address one thing regarding all of this: I have had friends try to dissuade me from going through with this. Their logic? "You don't want to be lablled, man!"

Here is my response to that: I can either NOT have the label, NOT know what is wrong, NOT get the help, and deal with a social stigma anyway...OR I can make life easier on myself by knowing what is going on and getting the help I need...and as for the "Stigma" that comes with the label...to hell with it!

I'm not sure why I felt like unloading all of this today. I know it can be a dangerous thing because, thanks to the anonymity of the internet, people feel safe in being incredibly cruel. While I hope that doesn't happen here, and I hope people appreciate the openness/vulnerability of this post, I am aware it's possible that the trolls come out in full force. LOL


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## Steve

I'm glad you're getting this out, and (no pun intended) it's just crazy how our cultures treat mental health.  My brother was diagnosed with Aspergers as an adult.  When he was in school, he was bullied.  It was merciless in high school.  He was very stubborn and never took the easy way out.  He enlisted in the Army, volunteered for Airborne Infantry and, ended up serving in combat in both Panama and Iraq.  

I suspect that he started drinking about then, too.  He got out of the Army, got a degree in, of all things, anthropology, and ended up re-enlisting in the Navy, where he served on the Kitty Hawk. 

Ultimately, the drinking got worse and he was eventually discharged honorably, but not without a lot of things to work out.   He had several physical disabilities, but it was the mental stuff that caused him the most trouble. 

Counseling really helped him.  He got sober, got a job and started getting his life back on track.  When we have a heart attack, diabetes or high blood pressure, we go to the doctor.  But for some reason, when we have mental or emotional problems, we tend to think we can work them out for ourselves.


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## wingchun100

Steve said:


> I'm glad you're getting this out, and (no pun intended) it's just crazy how our cultures treat mental health.  My brother was diagnosed with Aspergers as an adult.  When he was in school, he was bullied.  It was merciless in high school.  He was very stubborn and never took the easy way out.  He enlisted in the Army, volunteered for Airborne Infantry and, ended up serving in combat in both Panama and Iraq.
> 
> I suspect that he started drinking about then, too.  He got out of the Army, got a degree in, of all things, anthropology, and ended up re-enlisting in the Navy, where he served on the Kitty Hawk.
> 
> Ultimately, the drinking got worse and he was eventually discharged honorably, but not without a lot of things to work out.   He had several physical disabilities, but it was the mental stuff that caused him the most trouble.
> 
> Counseling really helped him.  He got sober, got a job and started getting his life back on track.  When we have a heart attack, diabetes or high blood pressure, we go to the doctor.  But for some reason, when we have mental or emotional problems, we tend to think we can work them out for ourselves.


 
Yes, and now people feel that Asperger's should NOT be its own separate thing. I think it has been shoved back under autism now.


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## Steve

wingchun100 said:


> Yes, and now people feel that Asperger's should NOT be its own separate thing. I think it has been shoved back under autism now.


Yeah, I don't know.  I understand that it's on the autism spectrum.  I think what it's called is much less important than how it's treated and understood.  I see it like cancer.  Cancer is cancer, but there are different kinds.  And even within a specific type of cancer, there are meaningful differences. 

Autism is one of those things that has such a wide spectrum, it's reasonable to me that there are sub-categories within the larger diagnosis.


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## Buka

I could write pages on this subject. Probably will, too. And please forgive any attempted humor inserted, but it's completely intentional. I've studied mental health for a long time. Took a lot of courses in college, none of which were for a career path, but because I wanted and needed to know. Worked with a lot of counsellors over the years, was always the officer at work who escorted the detainee to the mental health facilities or lockups, dealt with a lot of kids, and discussed and taught about the subject in Martial classes, as well as brought in a few professionals to lecture from time to time to my students.

Poor mental health does not run in my wife's family - it gallops. My family, they were just nuts. But it was an entertaining kind of nuts and wasn't bad at all.

You know from a lot of my posts that my mind is like a bowl of fruit loops. While true, so are the minds of most people, or at least _part_ of their minds. One of the things I've found is people think, because of the way their mind works, that they are completely different from the what they consider the healthy norm. But they are not, they just think they are. And they think they know what the healthy norm is. That's part of what the mind does. It's a great servant, but a terrible master.

This is my Great Uncle, Sifrado (in the moustache)






In his will, I was the sole beneficiary of the Green Canaries. (I even named those suckers.) Unfortunately, had to share the rats with my no good, second cousin.


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## Transk53

Being on the spectrum is too pidgeon holed for me. Yes full blown Autism is the case obviously. But there are those of us who exsibit symptoms through FAS that seem that way. Still though, I have very aloof to my mental health issues as I have become older. Good on the OP for the candid post. As the post says, it is not for the likes of me concerning therapy, but I am ignorent enough to say it doesn't work for many people, as it obviously does. Didn't work for me, as I emmediately started to fight it, and pretty much any notion I wasn't right in the head. Then I realised I aint right in the head, I live with it. If therapy works for anybody, or if anybody feels they need, I always suggest that. But also say you have to be honest with yourself. IMHO of course.


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## wingchun100

Buka said:


> I could write pages on this subject. Probably will, too. And please forgive any attempted humor inserted, but it's completely intentional. I've studied mental health for a long time. Took a lot of courses in college, none of which were for a career path, but because I wanted and needed to know. Worked with a lot of counsellors over the years, was always the officer at work who escorted the detainee to the mental health facilities or lockups, dealt with a lot of kids, and discussed and taught about the subject in Martial classes, as well as brought in a few professionals to lecture from time to time to my students.
> 
> Poor mental health does not run in my wife's family - it gallops. My family, they were just nuts. But it was an entertaining kind of nuts and wasn't bad at all.
> 
> You know from a lot of my posts that my mind is like a bowl of fruit loops. While true, so are the minds of most people, or at least _part_ of their minds. One of the things I've found is people think, because of the way their mind works, that they are completely different from the what they consider the healthy norm. But they are not, they just think they are. And they think they know what the healthy norm is. That's part of what the mind does. It's a great servant, but a terrible master.
> 
> This is my Great Uncle, Sifrado (in the moustache)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In his will, I was the sole beneficiary of the Green Canaries. (I even named those suckers.) Unfortunately, had to share the rats with my no good, second cousin.


 
I wish I could say the nuttiness in my family was entertaining. LOL

I've long suspected my mom has bipolar disorder, but she has never been diagnosed...nor would she consider going to be, if I suggested it.

How frustratingly ironic that such a mental health issue is one where you need a lot of help, but that very same issue makes you resistant to getting it.


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## Buka

I think one of the best benefits of talking with a counsellor is learning that you're not as different from most people as you thought. And from the right counsellor, how the mind actually works.

Bi-polar. Lot of that around. Had a guy at work a few weeks ago, apparently he decided it would be a good idea to stop taking his Bi-polar medication, replace it with smoking ice for two days, come to the airport to do a whacky version of a made up kung fu form while screaming he was a Tae-Kwon-Do Master. Then suckering one of our cops right in the mouth. It went downhill for him from there.


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## wingchun100

Buka said:


> I think one of the best benefits of talking with a counsellor is learning that you're not as different from most people as you thought. And from the right counsellor, how the mind actually works.
> 
> Bi-polar. Lot of that around. Had a guy at work a few weeks ago, apparently he decided it would be a good idea to stop taking his Bi-polar medication, replace it with smoking ice for two days, come to the airport to do a whacky version of a made up kung fu form while screaming he was a Tae-Kwon-Do Master. Then suckering one of our cops right in the mouth. It went downhill for him from there.


 
Luckily, my mom has never gone THAT out there, but she has had her moments of incomprehensible, convoluted thoughts. One time I was hanging out with a friend of mine; she was 19, and I had turned 21. We were bored and talking about what to do. She said, "You're 21 now. Get me some beer." We were laughing about it. I came out of my room to find my mom in tears, saying that I was going to get arrested because I was in my room, talking near an open window through which the neighbors could hear me about buying alcohol for an underage female.

Yeah, I had a childhood that was...not always much fun. lol


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## Xue Sheng

Buka said:


> I could write pages on this subject. Probably will, too. And please forgive any attempted humor inserted, but it's completely intentional. I've studied mental health for a long time. Took a lot of courses in college, none of which were for a career path, but because I wanted and needed to know. Worked with a lot of counsellors over the years, was always the officer at work who escorted the detainee to the mental health facilities or lockups, dealt with a lot of kids, and discussed and taught about the subject in Martial classes, as well as brought in a few professionals to lecture from time to time to my students.



Took a lot of Psychology courses in college too, and at one point was considering a career path...that was until I discovered it would likely require a PhD. I remember taking abnormal Psych and the first thing the Prof told us was "You will come across a disorder in the book that you are absolutely convinced you have....but you likely do not" and you know...he was absolutely correct about the first part.... however I have not yet had the courage to find out if he was right in the second part of that statement.


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## JowGaWolf

wingchun100 said:


> I'm not sure why I felt like unloading all of this today.


Usually when we dump things out like this, is because we have been keeping it in for longer than what we realize.  Dumping stuff out is good from time to time.  It's like a big Exhale when you feel that you need to be heard.  Constant dumping is just complaining.

I'm no doctor but feeling like something is wrong with you is a natural part of life.  It happens.  I would be more concerned about someone who never felt like something was wrong with them, or never questioned if something was wrong with them.  Those are the people that I watch carefully.  Asking yourself if there is something wrong with you is a self-evaluation that allows you to gauge how you feel about your place in society.   Most people go through this as teens, some of us get to the stage where we give ups and say. "There's nothing wrong with me, so everyone else will just have to F-off and deal with it."  

Sane people question their sanity. 

As for mental health and my kung training.  Medical research is showing that martial arts improve brain functions and delays some mental issues.  For me Martial arts is the thing that keeps me sane.  5 days out of the week I get to train, get fit, stay healthy, and be free from the world's troubles and stress for 1 - 2 hours each class.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Xue Sheng said:


> Took a lot of Psychology courses in college too, and at one point was considering a career path...that was until I discovered it would likely require a PhD. I remember taking abnormal Psych and the first thing the Prof told us was "You will come across a disorder in the book that you are absolutely convinced you have....but you likely do not" and you know...he was absolutely correct about the first part.... however I have not yet had the courage to find out if he was right in the second part of that statement.


As someone who actively practices as a mental hralth and substance abue counselor, I have diagnosed myself with about half the dsm at one point or another. You don't realize you don't actually have the disorder/illness until you talk to someone who actually does, and see what they actually mean by the symptoms (there's mania, and then there's Mania).


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## Tez3

wingchun100 said:


> Instead of saying "you're not my type." she always makes up excuses as to why she is too busy to go out.



Women don't like saying something like 'you're not my type' because it sounds like a cruel putdown and most will prefer to say no in a more gentle manner. There is also the fact she may be busy, many women are working, looking after a home, caring for children/parents etc on their own and actually don't have time to date.



Buka said:


> My family, they were just nuts. But it was an entertaining kind of nuts and wasn't bad at all.



There is a lot to be said for eccentricity, the lack of conforming to how people think you should behave or just being yourself really. Too many people think that acting in a different way from them these people must need counselling/treatment etc. Yes, many people do have serious mental health issues that should be addressed but there's also a lot of people who march to a different drumbeat, in some societies this is celebrated, sadly though in many it's not and they are labelled as mad/weird/mentally ill etc.  



JowGaWolf said:


> but feeling like something is wrong with you is a natural part of life.



I've never felt there was anything wrong mentally with me, but then I'm English and naturally eccentric. ( ain't that so Granfire lol) I live in the North Yorkshire Dales, with all the other eccentric people (if you don't believe me read the 'All Creatures Great and Small' books by James Herriot).


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## JowGaWolf

Tez3 said:


> I've never felt there was anything wrong mentally with me, but then I'm English and naturally eccentric.


I shall remain silent for the sake of world peace and happiness lol.


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## Tez3

JowGaWolf said:


> I shall remain silent for the sake of world peace and happiness lol.



LOL!. Seriously, though many societies want people to be all behaving the same, all to be within boundaries defined by what is 'normal'. If they aren't them they are packed off to therapists, if you insist you don't need a therapist then you are considered to be in 'denial'. a friend of mine, a military psychiatric nurse was on deployment in Afghanistan and seconded to an American unit. His opposite number there assured him that everyone everywhere had something wrong with them and everyone needed therapy/counselling, if you thought you were normal you were as I said 'in denial'. Strange thing though was that so many instances of actual mental health problems  ie PTSD were actually either missed or ignored.

So... basically a child who cries 'too much' or doesn't 'cry enough', who doesn't behave as is thought 'normal' is already marked out for treatment. If your emotional response isn't what is deemed appropriate you are marked out for treatment, any event that happens as part of life such bereavement is considered automatically as a cause for counselling.

I do take mental health seriously but in certain societies people are assuming that many of the huge range of human emotions and reactions aren't acceptable  yet mental illness is still actually stigmatised. People need to feel they can be themselves not something society wants them to be, there shouldn't be pressure on those who don't 'conform' to how others think they should be, individuality should be embraced, many people would be a lot happier if those around them accepted them for who they are.


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## wingchun100

Thank you for all the thoughtful replies. I am glad I took the risk in being open about this.


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## JowGaWolf

Tez3 said:


> LOL!. Seriously, though many societies want people to be all behaving the same, all to be within boundaries defined by what is 'normal'. If they aren't them they are packed off to therapists, if you insist you don't need a therapist then you are considered to be in 'denial'. a friend of mine, a military psychiatric nurse was on deployment in Afghanistan and seconded to an American unit. His opposite number there assured him that everyone everywhere had something wrong with them and everyone needed therapy/counselling, if you thought you were normal you were as I said 'in denial'. Strange thing though was that so many instances of actual mental health problems  ie PTSD were actually either missed or ignored.
> 
> So... basically a child who cries 'too much' or doesn't 'cry enough', who doesn't behave as is thought 'normal' is already marked out for treatment. If your emotional response isn't what is deemed appropriate you are marked out for treatment, any event that happens as part of life such bereavement is considered automatically as a cause for counselling.
> 
> I do take mental health seriously but in certain societies people are assuming that many of the huge range of human emotions and reactions aren't acceptable  yet mental illness is still actually stigmatised. People need to feel they can be themselves not something society wants them to be, there shouldn't be pressure on those who don't 'conform' to how others think they should be, individuality should be embraced, many people would be a lot happier if those around them accepted them for who they are.


Very well said.


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## Steve

I think everyone could benefit from a skilled confidant.  I don't think that most people need medication, but some.  

 I agree that normal is subjective.  I'm a weird duck myself and I like oddballs and eccentrics.  But it's as damaging to dismiss the issue as it is to overreact.   Writing it all off as americans overreacting is, in my opinion, going too far in the other direction.


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## wingchun100

There is a difference between being eccentric and having something going on that does not allow you to function. Sometimes it disrupts the ability minimally; other times, extremely. All I know is my own situation, and for me...if there IS something going on, then my life would be made easier if I knew what it was and how to deal with it.

Part of the problem is how people react to things. Okay, so let's say I am labelled with bipolar disorder. So what? The label isn't bad. I'm not bad. Hell, even the disorder itself isn't bad. It's how people react to it.

For some reason, people don't act the same way toward a physical disability that they do toward a mental one. I never quite understood that. Think about it: if it is "normal" to be able to walk with two legs, and you meet someone in a wheelchair, would THEY get as much flack as someone who says "I'm bipolar?" No, and the only difference I can think of is that you can SEE the wheelchair. You can't see whatever it is in their brain that makes them bipolar, or depressed, or whatever it may be. I think that's why so many people with mental health issues are basically told to "get over it." Without the ability to be inside their brain to know how hard it makes life for them, we can never really understand.


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## wingchun100

So sorry about the multiple posts. My computer froze up, and I had no idea.


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## wingchun100

Looks like I have a LOT of apologizing to do!


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## wingchun100

Looks like the last one...


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## Tez3

wingchun100 said:


> There is a difference between being eccentric and having something going on that does not allow you to function



I am very aware of this. However I believe people with mental health issues would be treated better and with more compassion if certain societies stopped treating everything that happens in life as cause for counselling, therapy etc.  Absolutely mental illness must be treated in the same way as a physical illness, but there needs a big rein back on the therapy/counselling industry which feeds on people's worries about mental health. When people are told they need counselling because they are upset their favourite actor/pop star has married ( heaven help us when they die) then something is very wrong, it actually trivialise real mental health issues and cause people to treat genuinely mentally ill people with less gravity than they deserve.


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## Steve

People are encouraged to see a doctor regularly.   I think we would all agree that regular maintenance is a good thing for the body.   Chiropractors, massage, yoga.  Whatever it is.   Xue gets needles.  

Point is, how is having someone to talk to from time to time any different?   Not everyone gets a regular massage but those who do swear by it for their health.


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## jks9199

I'm a Crisis Intervention Team certified officer.  And I've had enough psych classes, as I generally put it, to seem almost like I know what I'm doing... but not enough to actually be useful.  In other words, enough that I can talk to the clinicians we work with just intelligibly enough to get me in trouble...  

One of the points made in out training is that mental illness and mental disorders are ILLNESSES.  If we treated other illnesses like we treat mental illness, we'd be shaming anyone who got a broken leg splinted, or took chemo for cancer.  We'd shun someone unfortunate enough to have a stomach ache...  and who knows what we'd do to someone with WARTS!  Seriously -- we don't see it as a sign of weakness to see a doc and get treated for physical maladies.  We seldom (HIV-AIDS, STDs, a couple other diseases come to mind being or having been exceptions) stigmatize someone for a physical disorder.  But mental illness?  We attach a lot of shame and stigma to it... generally unfairly.

So, yes, I certainly consider mental health a part of self defense and general conditioning...  even if I did tell one of our per support officers that I have my own unhealthy coping mechanisms that I'm perfectly satisfied with.


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## Buka

Great thread.


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## Buka

Double post, frozen computer?


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> I am very aware of this. However I believe people with mental health issues would be treated better and with more compassion if certain societies stopped treating everything that happens in life as cause for counselling, therapy etc.  Absolutely mental illness must be treated in the same way as a physical illness, but there needs a big rein back on the therapy/counselling industry which feeds on people's worries about mental health. When people are told they need counselling because they are upset their favourite actor/pop star has married ( heaven help us when they die) then something is very wrong, it actually trivialise real mental health issues and cause people to treat genuinely mentally ill people with less gravity than they deserve.


It's really sad that the UK is so messed up.  Who exactly is telling you guys that you need counseling because your favorite actor has married or when they die?


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## Steve

Something to point out, because it seems like things are getting confused.  Counseling can be helpful to anyone, whether you have a diagnosed mental impairment or not.  I see a direct correlation to this and something like massage, which is beneficial whether you have a diagnosed physical impairment or not.  Counsel, by definition, is about listening to someone and giving them advise. 

So, this idea that saying to someone, "Hey, sounds like you're having a rough time.  Have you considered talking to someone about it?" is bad, is, in my opinion EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.  I would have no problem saying, "Hey, you look pretty sore.  Have you considered massage?  It's AWESOME." 

People see counselors all the time when they're having trouble with their marriages, at work, trying to excel in sports or for all manner of things.  Counselors listen and offer advice.  They help you see things from a different perspective and sometimes, they are just a kind, non-judgmental ear. 

Therapy, in my mind, correlates directly to something like physical therapy.  We go when we have a specific problem that needs to be addressed.  It can be long term or it can be short term.  But it's not the same as counseling, although counseling is often a component of therapy. 

And sometimes, just as when you have a physical impairment of some kind, you might need medication to help you manage things. 

But this judginess and arrogance about how "some cultures" blah, blah, blah is tiresome.


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## Tez3

Buka said:


> Double post, frozen computer?



I typed my last post, clicked to post and it froze so I'd assumed it hadn't been  posted, just seen that it did. Site having problems I think.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tez3 said:


> I am very aware of this. However I believe people with mental health issues would be treated better and with more compassion if certain societies stopped treating everything that happens in life as cause for counselling, therapy etc.  Absolutely mental illness must be treated in the same way as a physical illness, but there needs a big rein back on the therapy/counselling industry which feeds on people's worries about mental health. When people are told they need counselling because they are upset their favourite actor/pop star has married ( heaven help us when they die) then something is very wrong, it actually trivialise real mental health issues and cause people to treat genuinely mentally ill people with less gravity than they deserve.


I don't know if this is something different in the UK compared to the US, but here you would almost definitely not hear someone say that you should go to counseling because of pop culture events. There is a huge stigma about mental health, and suggesting someone needs counseling (even if they need it), is a very dangerous thing to do socially. No counselor that I know would suggest it to their friends, and plenty of counselors have informed people during their intakes that they don't believe they need counseling or therapy, and are just going through a normal process in their life. In fact, depending on the person, they would consider it unethical to meet with the person once they evaluate they don't require therapy.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

double post


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

triple post...


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## jks9199

Buka said:


> Double post, frozen computer?


I think there's a problem on the back end.  Sending notice up the chain.  Please be patient folks -- the owners have more on their plate than just MT.


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## Tez3

kempodisciple said:


> I don't know if this is something different in the UK compared to the US, but here you would almost definitely not hear someone say that you should go to counseling because of pop culture events. There is a huge stigma about mental health, and suggesting someone needs counseling (even if they need it), is a very dangerous thing to do socially. No counselor that I know would suggest it to their friends, and plenty of counselors have informed people during their intakes that they don't believe they need counseling or therapy, and are just going through a normal process in their life. In fact, depending on the person, they would consider it unethical to meet with the person once they evaluate they don't require therapy.




It's absolutely not a British thing, we are still 'stiff upper lip' in most cases it's what we see coming across from your side of the pond. It's constantly mentioned in US made programmes, articles, books films etc etc. it has been for a very long time.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tez3 said:


> It's absolutely not a British thing, we are still 'stiff upper lip' in most cases it's what we see coming across from your side of the pond. It's constantly mentioned in US made programmes, articles, books films etc etc. it has been for a very long time.


It may be mentioned in articles, but it is definitely not something people say face to face, and I don't know anyone who takes those parts of the media seriously.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Tez3 said:


> It's absolutely not a British thing, we are still 'stiff upper lip' in most cases it's what we see coming across from your side of the pond. It's constantly mentioned in US made programmes, articles, books films etc etc. it has been for a very long time.


It may be mentioned in articles, but it is definitely not something people say face to face, and I don't know anyone who takes those parts of the media seriously.


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## Tez3

kempodisciple said:


> It may be mentioned in articles, but it is definitely not something people say face to face, and I don't know anyone who takes those parts of the media seriously.



It's in films, television series, books both fiction and non fiction ( has been for decades) and as my psychiatric nurse friend pointed out in the US army medical services for sure. Therapy and counselling are probably used more in the US than anywhere else in the world. I don't know whether it's a right thing to do or not but the US certainly embraced counselling and therapy much more than anywhere else.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> It's in films, television series, books both fiction and non fiction ( has been for decades) and as my psychiatric nurse friend pointed out in the US army medical services for sure. Therapy and counselling are probably used more in the US than anywhere else in the world. I don't know whether it's a right thing to do or not but the US certainly embraced counselling and therapy much more than anywhere else.


Yeah, it's so weird.  When you generalize the people in a country based upon snapshots from the media, a distorted picture can emerge.  Particularly when you're predisposed to have a poor opinion about that country in the first place. 

If I were to be inclined to believe that the UK has a problem of this kind, it's pretty easy to find evidence to support my predetermined opinion.  I found the following in about 10 seconds on Google.  I found many, many articles discussing the seriousness of the mental health problem in the UK.   

Our public grieving over dead celebrities has reached insufferable levels

Ultimately, even though we know you think Europe is perfect and America is terrible, has anyone ever suggested to you that before you criticize others you should ensure your own house is in order?


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## Tez3

kempodisciple said:


> It may be mentioned in articles, but it is definitely not something people say face to face, and I don't know anyone who takes those parts of the media seriously.



You probably want to consider that the reason there is so much more in the US is because most of the pioneering work has been done there, a source of pride I would have thought rather than disbelief.
Counselling & Psychotherapy History


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## wingchun100

jks9199 said:


> I'm a Crisis Intervention Team certified officer.  And I've had enough psych classes, as I generally put it, to seem almost like I know what I'm doing... but not enough to actually be useful.  In other words, enough that I can talk to the clinicians we work with just intelligibly enough to get me in trouble...
> 
> One of the points made in out training is that mental illness and mental disorders are ILLNESSES.  If we treated other illnesses like we treat mental illness, we'd be shaming anyone who got a broken leg splinted, or took chemo for cancer.  We'd shun someone unfortunate enough to have a stomach ache...  and who knows what we'd do to someone with WARTS!  Seriously -- we don't see it as a sign of weakness to see a doc and get treated for physical maladies.  We seldom (HIV-AIDS, STDs, a couple other diseases come to mind being or having been exceptions) stigmatize someone for a physical disorder.  But mental illness?  We attach a lot of shame and stigma to it... generally unfairly.
> 
> So, yes, I certainly consider mental health a part of self defense and general conditioning...  even if I did tell one of our per support officers that I have my own unhealthy coping mechanisms that I'm perfectly satisfied with.


 
I didn't mean mental health is a part of self-defense training. I meant it is a part of fitness that is often neglected. When people think of being healthy, they usually think of just working out, doing the martial arts training, or something like Yoga/Pilates ONLY. For some people though, who have issues like I do (per the first post), it would do a lot of good to take care of my MENTAL health as well.


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## Steve

Tez3 said:


> You probably want to consider that the reason there is so much more in the US is because most of the pioneering work has been done there, a source of pride I would have thought rather than disbelief.
> Counselling & Psychotherapy History


I'm glad that it appears your antiquated opinions seem to be changing in the UK.  
One in five Britons has consulted a counsellor or a psychotherapist

Other articles suggest that stats in the UK may not reveal the depth of the problem because of a combination of stigma and that services are not being made available to everyone who needs them.


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## Transk53

wingchun100 said:


> I didn't mean mental health is a part of self-defense training. I meant it is a part of fitness that is often neglected. When people think of being healthy, they usually think of just working out, doing the martial arts training, or something like Yoga/Pilates ONLY. For some people though, who have issues like I do (per the first post),* it would do a lot of good to take care of my MENTAL health as well.*



That's cool. Glad you are able too. Mental helth in this thread seems to be coming accross as being a general thing. Well, that is just my observation rightly or wrongly, but some mental health issues are extremely profound. Mental fitness is not something that can be trained, some of us just have to pull our socks up and get on with it.


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## wingchun100

Transk53 said:


> That's cool. Glad you are able too. Mental helth in this thread seems to be coming accross as being a general thing. Well, that is just my observation rightly or wrongly, but some mental health issues are extremely profound. Mental fitness is not something that can be trained, some of us just have to pull our socks up and get on with it.


 
It's not general because not everyone has those issues. I am talking about EXTREME issues. If someone is struggling with just being able to get out of bed, they might have more going on than just laziness, you know? I mean, we ALL need to feel good, but some people have more struggles than others. Some people can't just look themselves in the mirror and tell themselves to suck it up and deal.


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## Transk53

wingchun100 said:


> It's not general because not everyone has those issues. I am talking about EXTREME issues. If someone is struggling with just being able to get out of bed, they might have more going on than just laziness, you know? I mean, we ALL need to feel good, but some people have more struggles than others. Some people can't just look themselves in the mirror and tell themselves to suck it up and deal.



Oh yeah, I have been there. I had to lock myself in my room at a hostel I was referred to. Not for own safety, but for others. Everybody was an enemy. After my second mental breakdown, rather than punching the mirror, After a while I looked at myself in the the mirror and simply said "no more" I stood up and went for a walk. My gosh it was hard, and I had to seemingly dredge up every ounce of physical and mental strength I could muster. Took a couple of years to get myself back to what normals consider everyday life. Managed to get myself a job etc, social life and what not. When I look back on it, that fateful day I pulled my socks up and fought the demons. 


You are probably right. Some people can't maybe suck it and deal, but there are probaly just as many who simply can't be bothered. Hide away from the realty of mental illness. Now in today's society that would be no surprise. Humans are too quick to ostracise because one does not fit in social peerage.


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## Tez3

I have a friend who has depression and anxiety, she tries very hard to cope. One of the things she does is run a Fb page about rugby players as well as supporting a female football team with publicity, photography and anything else she can. She makes no secret that she has mental health issues and if she's too unwell to post photos etc she will say so, 99% of people are supportive but that one per cent post vile things on her site. One of the most surprising things about her page though is how many others suffer from the same and how many suffer it alone.
A couple of people here who are also FB friends of mine might guess who she is but if you see something I share from her do give her a shout, she appreciates the thought and the support.


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## wingchun100

The real struggle that I face is that I KNOW I should not live my life needing validation from others. I need it from within. And yet, due to depression, I cannot get it from myself. However, I am also conscious of the fact that I cannot rely on that because...well, people are unreliable! It is a horrible, HORRIBLE spot to be in, and I am hoping this evaluation will give me some answers (or at least point me in the right direction) so I can get out of this trap.


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## wingchun100

Just felt like sharing an update on this topic.

I completed a mental health evaluation a few months ago. The psychologist who initially started it with me got sick, so his patients were dispersed to other people in the same practice. It seemed to me like the guy I was assigned to did a rush job because he was resentful of all these other patients getting pawned off on me. He DID wind up diagnosing me with ADHD, but his report was a mere two pages long. It contained literally NO data; I received no testing, etc. All he did was go by this massive "Self-reporting" questionnaire I had to fill out. I felt that more was needed because, for someone like me who doesn't always have the best insight into why he acts the way he does, a self-report will not be helpful.

I went to see my doctor, and I was prescribed something for the ADHD. However, I am also going for a second opinion regarding the evaluation as a whole. The new psychologist I see was surprised there wasn't more to the report. This time around, I am confident I will get a more thorough answer.


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## CB Jones

I have ADHD what helps me is:

1). Competition allows me to focus more on whatever I'm doing.  If I can make it a competition I can keep my focus on it better

2). Headphones and music.  It drowns out things around me and helps keep me focused on the task right in front of me.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

wingchun100 said:


> Just felt like sharing an update on this topic.
> 
> I completed a mental health evaluation a few months ago. The psychologist who initially started it with me got sick, so his patients were dispersed to other people in the same practice. It seemed to me like the guy I was assigned to did a rush job because he was resentful of all these other patients getting pawned off on me. He DID wind up diagnosing me with ADHD, but his report was a mere two pages long. It contained literally NO data; I received no testing, etc. All he did was go by this massive "Self-reporting" questionnaire I had to fill out. I felt that more was needed because, for someone like me who doesn't always have the best insight into why he acts the way he does, a self-report will not be helpful.
> 
> I went to see my doctor, and I was prescribed something for the ADHD. However, I am also going for a second opinion regarding the evaluation as a whole. The new psychologist I see was surprised there wasn't more to the report. This time around, I am confident I will get a more thorough answer.


If you go in for an evaluation or assessment, it's generally a 2-3 page assessment. The one that I do takes around an hour and a half, and is from talking with the person. Others do it from self-report questionnaires, which I'm not a fan of (similar to your issues, I feel like it's impersonal and most people don't go to therapy knowing exactly what their issues are), but from what I recall statistically there isn't that much difference towards accuracy of a working diagnosis.

The important thing is, whatever diagnosis you get in the assessment is a _working_ diagnosis. It's tough to get all the information you need to accurately diagnose someone and rule out all other possibilities in one or two sessions. Diagnoses are liable to change as you continue treatment and the psychologist gets to know you better. Unless your intent was to just get a diagnosis and not attend treatment, which is pointless IMO. It would be like going to your doctor for a prostate exam, finding out you have cancer, and then just never going to get the cancer taken care of. Why bother going through the prostate exam if you don't do anything with the information.

Last comment; go to a psychiatrist, not a doctor. Your PCP will know what medications work for ADHD, (and the interaction effects that epocrates tells them), but they won't have any in depth knowledge on what medication would be best for you, and how it's effecting you in terms of mental health. It's just not their focus.


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## wingchun100

CB Jones said:


> I have ADHD what helps me is:
> 
> 1). Competition allows me to focus more on whatever I'm doing.  If I can make it a competition I can keep my focus on it better
> 
> 2). Headphones and music.  It drowns out things around me and helps keep me focused on the task right in front of me.


 
Music used to help me focus more when I was doing homework in high school/college. Now if I try to do things while listening to it, I get distracted...unless it is classical music, because then there are no lyrics to focus on.


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## CB Jones

wingchun100 said:


> Music used to help me focus more when I was doing homework in high school/college. Now if I try to do things while listening to it, I get distracted...unless it is classical music, because then there are no lyrics to focus on.



Electric violin and cello

Lindsey Stirling
Black Violin
Caitlin De Ville
2Cellos

What I listen to when I'm writing report and doing paperwork or working on electronics.


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## wingchun100

CB Jones said:


> Electric violin and cello
> 
> Lindsey Stirling
> Black Violin
> Caitlin De Ville
> 2Cellos
> 
> What I listen to when I'm writing report and doing paperwork or working on electronics.


 
I'd have to check it out.

These days, I need music with no lyrics, or I need the sound of something that is smooth and consistent, like the steady hum of a fan, humidifier, or something to that effect.


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## wingchun100

Got another med appointment today. I was prescribed something for ADHD, but it wore off pretty fast.

The first evaluation I went for was kind of crappy and weak. I went for a second opinion and got a much more thorough job done. However, the result of that is needing to go for different meds.


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## wingchun100

I have had more updates since I last posted on this thread.

Originally I was diagnosed with ADHD and put on Adderall. However, the evaluation did not seem that thorough for me, so I went to get a second opinion. This was much better and more in-depth, and I came out of it with a different diagnosis: depression, anxiety, and something called Avoidant Personality Disorder. (I don't feel like getting into a description of it here, so feel free to look it up.)

I went through a couple different medications before I got on the right one. Things have been steadily improving since then, and I amaze myself with new developments every day. I'll go into those more later, but for now I wanted to continue on about the mental health evaluations.

Even when I got on the right medication, I always had the idea of going for the autism evaluation in the back of my mind. Well, recently I was able to go for it, although I do not have the results yet. Those will be coming soon.


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## wingchun100

In the previous post, I mentioned briefly that I amaze myself with new developments every day. Here is one recent example.

I met my ex-wife at a bank parking lot when it was time for my son to go home to her. She had her ex-con boyfriend with her. I tried asking my ex about something to do with our son's school work. (Keep in mind I had originally emailed/texted/called to say, "Please send his book bag with him from now on." Even when I called, I got voicemail, and my call was not returned.) When he came over, he did NOT have his book bag with him, so I was trying to address the issue. I said, "Why didn't his book bag come with him?" She said, "It's at the house." I said, "Okay, but...that doesn't answer my question. Didn't you get the messages I left about wanting it to come with him?" At this point, the ex-con chimed in, "Dude, let it go. She said it was at the house." I said, "I was asking her, not you."

He got out of the car and ran around, charging at me. I backed up a couple steps, getting into fighting stance. My hands were up (open, not in fists), and I said, "You need to stay away from me. Don't get ANY closer!" And to my surprise, this thug (who has probably 6 inches in height and 30-50 pounds on me) actually stopped in his tracks.

So...why is this something so amazing? Well, you would have to know my life to get the full impact of it. Needless to say, if this had happened as little as 2-3 years ago, I would have ran for my car, but I didn't. I stood my ground. Why? Because I was not in the wrong. I was merely trying to communicate with my ex about our son...OUR son, not his, and he had no place chiming in to interview with how I raise him. Maybe he thinks he does simply because he is dating my ex, but guess what? If he broke up with her tomorrow, he wouldn't give a flying F what happens with our son. So he needs to learn to butt out.

The only thing that angered me about the whole event was that my son witnessed it, and then I had to let him go home with that jerk. There was nothing I could do about it. I tried calling CPS, but they didn't care because he was in the car when it happened and therefore out of the way of any physical harm. I asked, "Don't you think that kind of stuff causes him PSYCHOLOGICAL harm?" Apparently, social services law doesn't care about that 'round these parts.

The next time my son came over, I asked him how he felt about what he saw. He said, "I was scared that he was going to punch you." I said, "I know, and I am sorry you had to see that, but do you know what I was doing? Do you know why I didn't run to my car?" He said no, so I explained, "It's because I was trying to talk to your mother about something to do with YOU, about something related to your school work, to help you out in areas where you are struggling. He had no business butting in. I stood my ground for YOU, buddy, because when it comes to you, your brother, or your sisters, NO ONE is going to intimidate me."

It has been such a long time coming. Those of you who have had enough self-esteem/self-confidence for all your lives cannot grasp what a relief it is. I mean, it is one thing to go through all the evaluations I have, to get a diagnosis, to get on medication, to feel better, and to THINK your self-confidence is higher, but you really don't know until it gets tested somehow. And you can't plan for moments like that.

I am so glad that I passed my test. It made me realize: "Shoot, if I didn't scamper away like a frightened rabbit from an ogre like that, then what need do I have to be scared of ANYONE?"


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## Flying Crane

You’ve been on a tough road.  Keep at it.


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## wingchun100

Flying Crane said:


> You’ve been on a tough road.  Keep at it.



Thanks. It might not be as tough as SOME have it, but that doesn't mean it's been easy.

I am going to get my results today!


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## Flying Crane

wingchun100 said:


> Thanks. It might not be as tough as SOME have it, but that doesn't mean it's been easy.
> 
> I am going to get my results today!


Well, I haven’t had to deal with the issues in the same way you have, but I have recently gone through a lay-off from a high-stress job that I held for 18 years, going back to school to figure out a new direction, and my wife also being laid off and back in school at the same time.  And trying to juggle the needs of our 4-year old.  

I was surprised at how disorienting this change has been, and how much stress it has caused me.  

One thing became clear to me:  my martial training helps keep me mentally and emotionally more calm and centered, and it is critical that I keep at it.  When I don’t, when I let it slip to the side, then I get stressed and axious more easily and I don’t sleep well.  So it really helps me get through the tough times.  The problem is, it is very easy to feel overwhelmed with other responsibilities, and then let my training slip away.  I can’t let that happen, it is a survival tool for me.


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## wingchun100

Got my results yesterday, although she did not give me a copy of the report to take home. I can't remember all of it, so I am going to hold off on writing anything about the outcome until I have it in my hands.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

wingchun100 said:


> Got my results yesterday, although she did not give me a copy of the report to take home. I can't remember all of it, so I am going to hold off on writing anything about the outcome until I have it in my hands.


Was this official results from the assessment where they diagnosed depression/anxiety/Avoidant Personality Disorder, or the autism evaluation?


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## wingchun100

Flying Crane said:


> Well, I haven’t had to deal with the issues in the same way you have, but I have recently gone through a lay-off from a high-stress job that I held for 18 years, going back to school to figure out a new direction, and my wife also being laid off and back in school at the same time.  And trying to juggle the needs of our 4-year old.
> 
> I was surprised at how disorienting this change has been, and how much stress it has caused me.
> 
> One thing became clear to me:  my martial training helps keep me mentally and emotionally more calm and centered, and it is critical that I keep at it.  When I don’t, when I let it slip to the side, then I get stressed and axious more easily and I don’t sleep well.  So it really helps me get through the tough times.  The problem is, it is very easy to feel overwhelmed with other responsibilities, and then let my training slip away.  I can’t let that happen, it is a survival tool for me.



I hear you on that one. We do the best we can at the time. If our best isn't good enough, then we figure out how to do better.


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## wingchun100

kempodisciple said:


> Was this official results from the assessment where they diagnosed depression/anxiety/Avoidant Personality Disorder, or the autism evaluation?



Autism evaluation. Coming soon.


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