# 2 or three months income for a ring



## Rich Parsons (Mar 23, 2008)

From this thread about the lost ring of $12k.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61123


In modern times is it bad for a guy to ask about what she is going to buy him with two to three months of her income?

Are not both entering into the contract?


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## AceHBK (Mar 23, 2008)

LOL!! Nah I dont think it is bad at all. 2-3 months salary is a lot of money to give for a ring.  I would pose the question just to see what she would say.  I think her answer would speak a great deal about her.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 23, 2008)

I remember that was a promo from Zale's Jewelers to encourage guys to buy 2 or 3 months worth of diamonds for their intended. 
I hear it again and again that a lot of women would prefer a nice simple diamond engagement and a tasteful set of wedding bands. Now if it's 2 or 3 months salary for the set then that's sounds pretty good. 
You spend what you can and make up for the rest over the years in hard-work and love in making the marriage what it should be. 
A diamond maybe forever but love is eternal.


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## Ceicei (Mar 23, 2008)

Oftentimes it is the bride (and her family) who pays for the cost of the wedding dress, cake(s), and all the costs associated with the wedding.  This could easily equal to or be more than the cost of the ring.

In olden times (and still going on with other areas of the world), the bride comes with a dowry which will then belong to the groom.  It is not strange for this to be an agreement between families rather than between couples--sometimes love plays little or no part of the equation.

Now the weddings, at least currently, appear to have the wedding costs shared by both the bride's and groom's families.  The traditional ways of "she does/pays this" and "he does/pays that" seem to be evolving more into unique and unusual types of weddings that are more of an expression of the couples' shared love for certain places/activities, and or hopes/goals.

- Ceicei


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## BrandiJo (Mar 23, 2008)

I got married not to long ago, and i can not see spending THAT much money on a ring. Had my husband not been able to get his great grandmas ring (free) i wouldn't have wanted him to get one at all. Not because i want a pricey family heirloom but because i don't want him to spend the money on something like that. THe same came into play with our wedding bands, we wanted something strong, unique and cost effective, we chose 60 dollar titanium matching bands that came with a free inscription. I thought that we had better things to spend our money on then a set of rings. Granted i love my wedding and engagment rings and i am glad we where able to go the route we did, but if we had to do with out or if he couldnt get this ring i would have been just as happy not getting anything at all. Love is far deeper the the size of your ring or how much it cost.

As for the splitting of costs, again the huge 5k weddings are  over rated. the Dj was the most expensive thing we had and he was 400 bucks. My family and i paid for most of it but we did it on a budget and pry a whole lot less then what my ring is worth, and again no where near what our love is or means.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 23, 2008)

*Caver* makes a very good point whereby the retailers apply a pressure of their own to urge people (well, men, let's be honest) to burn huge amounts of cash on something which is merely a visual recognition symbol of a question.

This is not an issue that is simple as that tho', as there are inferences of status involved for both sides of the proposal and the problem is further clouded by opinions that are external to the couple.

I know that the latter played a role in my ring choice. I know full well my missus would've been happy with a 'cheap' ring, it was the 'question', asked the right way in an appropriate setting, that she wanted.  However, there was no way I was going to put a bottom-end ring on her finger.  

Why?

Because I did not want people to look at the ring (as they inevitably do) and ponder to themselves "Is that all he thinks of her?".  It's silly but it has an effect.  I spent a quarter of a years income just so other people would not think that my love was not real.  Also, I did not want my missus to be ashamed when people asked to see it, so I spent more on that diamond band than I have on all the cars I have ever owned combined.

How stupid is that?

EDIT: *BrandiJo* makes some very good points too.  In fact, she also raises an intriguing cultural aspect with regard to wedding costs.  It seems that in America the trend is for the costs to be shared by both families and for the 'price tag' to be quite low.  In England, it is still held to be the bride's father's responsibility to foot the bill and that bill is an average of £18000 ($36000).  I think that is wrong, plain and simple. Most families are not forging great political alliances with their betrothals and that magnitude of expenditure would be crippling for the majority of families in this country ... and yet they still do it!?


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## grydth (Mar 23, 2008)

I must be from the Civil War era.... when we became engaged in 2005, we discussed what we could realistically afford.... we visited a jeweler who was an old friend and my wife designed it and picked the stones and we both came out happy. What a day when she received it!

Now, thanks to what I've learned here, I know better.

The silly jeweler was pre-occupied with making us happy instead of skinning us for an unearthly sum. He never applied any pressure. I shall never go there again.

I shall have to tell my wife tonight that we may have failed the, "3 month test" and that she must now resent me and hate the ring. 

She constantly gives me small tokens and reminders of her love, but since none of them cost her 5k, I'm not liking her much anymore, either.


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## BrandiJo (Mar 23, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> I know that the latter played a role in my ring choice. I know full well my missus would've been happy with a 'cheap' ring, it was the 'question', asked the right way in an appropriate setting, that she wanted.  However, there was no way I was going to put a bottom-end ring on her finger.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



Weddings are not always inexpensive, my bros wedding 3 months after my own was nearly 5 times as much as mine and my cousins wedding was nearly double the cost of my bros wedding. 

As for rings, i do not understand it. I know its a symbol of your love and your trying to get her the best, but the money can be spent on so many other things that would be so much more practical. Honestly with what my ring is worth we could have gotten a nice chunk of a house mortgage, and i would have killed my husband had he spent that kind of money on a ring.  If i had to choose between a ring and a down payment on a house id go with the house hands down, if i had to choose between a ring and a down payment on a car id go with the car... but maybe im abnormal. Now thats not saying i will part with my ring for anything. It will either be passed down or pried off my cold dead finger


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## Sukerkin (Mar 23, 2008)

I quite agree on the idiocy of the cost of rings, *Brandi* ... and yet I still went along and paid what I did anyhow (even tho' my Economist soul cringed knowing that, as soon as I paid for it, it's value went down by 90%) .

It *is* a nice ring tho', I have to say and, despite the fact that she is horrified that it has to have its own insurance entry, my missus loves putting her "sparkly" on every morning.  That's despite the fact that she doesn't really know how much it cost - I'm sure if she did, she'd rather I'd put the money towards a conservatory for the house


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## terryl965 (Mar 23, 2008)

After 18 year I bought my wife a ring that was three times our monthly income but she also gave me three wonderful sons and has devoted her life with me. Noway no how would I ever buy something that expensive in the beginning.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 23, 2008)

A good point there, *Terry*.  

I saved for four years before I popped the question - of course, I did have the advantage of knowing that if _this_ relationship wasn't 'it' I had no interest in ever trying again i.e. this was a one-time-only circumstance.


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## terryl965 (Mar 23, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> A good point there, *Terry*.
> 
> I saved for four years before I popped the question - of course, I did have the advantage of knowing that if _this_ relationship wasn't 'it' I had no interest in ever trying again i.e. this was a one-time-only circumstance.


 
I agree


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## Ceicei (Mar 23, 2008)

Prior to our marriage, my boyfriend and I went together to select our own wedding rings.  I would have preferred a simple band, yet I felt conscientious of the social pressure that brides should "want" diamonds.  A diamond wasn't really my most favorite stone (I liked sapphire better), but of course, diamonds represent marriage.  All my friends who married around the same time I did all got diamonds and there is the inevitable "comparison".

In keeping with my preference for simplicity, a small quarter karat diamond paired with tiny diamonds (in a very simple setting) was as basic as I wanted.  That, along with my husband's ring, equalled a college student's one-month's pay.

Even then, given the things I love to do (martial arts and caving), my ring has been damaged twice and the diamond lost.  After 15 years of marriage, we decided we would get the rings we originally wanted.  I got my simple gold band with engraving inside and he got his in titanium.  Now what that engraving says means more to me than all the diamonds in the world.  

I feel much happier now with what I have and I'm able to go caving while I wear it without causing damage to myself, others, and to it.  It is the same with martial arts (depending upon what we're doing in training).

- Ceicei


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## MA-Caver (Mar 23, 2008)

*Sukerkin*, in reading your post about the cost of your ring and why you paid that much for it had me thinking... why did you go do that for? I mean, who gives a **** what other people think about how much you spend on her. 
The real question is... does she KNOW you really love her? Does she know the lengths, depths that you'll go to for her? Is she content with that? Does the thought of it make her happy? 
Those are the things that would cause me worry and sleepless nights? The hell with what everybody else is thinking... no, seriously. 
Understand mate, that I'm not laying all that down as a critique of what you done, but more of offering another perspective. That you were willing to do so and capable shows the effort you went through to accomplish that... and that says a-lot! :asian: 

Perhaps it's easy for me to "say" because like *ahem* some others here on MT I've been alone for so long that all the materialistic crap just pales by comparison over what is really important in a relationship. The love shared.
I dunno, I'm a hopeless romantic and while I would want to be able to afford a very nice ring for whomever it may be, I'm guessing (ok, _and_ hoping  ) that it really won't matter much to her.  

But I think also traditionally that pricey rings also say to the woman that because I can afford this, it's a symbol of the life I am offering to you. Sort of, multiplying the cost of the ring vs 20-40 years of annual income which indicates the type of lifestyle they will live. 
But now-a-days with over night millionaires and so on... it's hard to say. Sometimes those pricey rings go into hock. 

So like Chuck Berry sang... " C'est la vie say the old folks, goes to show you never can tell."


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## Sukerkin (Mar 24, 2008)

I can't dispute your logic, *Caver* and I agree with you fully, so it just goes to show how all of us can be warped by social pressure to some extent .

For me, as I only ever intend to buy one such ring, in addition to the love it's a physical representation of, I wanted it to be one that my missus would love the aesthetics of too, after all, she's wearing it every day, .

Why it turned out so expensive is in part down to a negotiation between 'beauty' and what I could conceivably afford.  A further important consideration was what I thought would suit Michelle's 'style' {and had a chance of competing with all the other rings she wears :lol:}.

So I started out looking at the bottom end of the price-scale and worked my way up .  Altho' it was expensive, I can't claim otherwise, I happen to think that I looked at some that were three times the price that did not look as good.

For anyone searching for an engagement ring, I have a passle of links to jewellers still if they'd be of help .  

Plus, if you're planning on it being a surprise like I was (and pulled it off too ) and therefore cannot get your lady's own opinion, I found it useful to get the opinions of some female friends on my choice.  By luck or judgement, I managed to 'get it right' as the unanimous verdict was "Oh she'll love that!" ... and she did :huzzar:.


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## mrhnau (Mar 24, 2008)

Caver, Sadly, society and those beloved jewelers are very good at convincing women that they need the best pebble. I got engaged when I was still in grad school, so I was not on the high end of the earning spectrum. There comes the inevitable "comparing of rings" with coworkers whose fiancee/husband is a lawyer/doctor/rich guy. Sad as it is, that kind of social pressure exists. Same thing that makes people go buy nicer cars than they can afford, bigger houses, more expensive clothes. My mom had to wait 20 years for her diamond, but somehow I don't think my wife would have loved that too much LOL.

Personally, we went for a relatively cheap wedding. My wife's parents were both deceased, so we had to cover the whole thing ourselves, which was rough. My sister had one of those 30k weddings and my dad had to refinance the house for that sucker! But thats what she wanted. Gotta love social pressure.

Speaking of which, the whole holiday thing has always bugged me. Businesses foster the idea that you have to have the perfect Christmas decoration, the bunny pictures, the dozen roses, the jewelry, the cards, the food... I know people that spend so much on Christmas that they spend the next year getting rid of the debt, only to do it again the following year. How nuts has our society become?


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## CoryKS (Mar 24, 2008)

My wife didn't want me to spend _too_ much because she wanted to use the money for a really cool honeymoon.  She ended up picking a moderate platinum/diamond number because "It looks kinda Star Wars-y."


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## Laurentkd (Mar 24, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> After 18 year I bought my wife a ring that was three times our monthly income but she also gave me three wonderful sons and has devoted her life with me. Noway no how would I ever buy something that expensive in the beginning.


 

my sis married her husband right as he was going into med school.  He said he would buy her something then if she wanted it, or if she would wait awhile he would get her something really nice.  She chose to wait (good thing since they soon  had a little one on the way!) and was greatly rewarded for her patience 10 years (and three more kids) later.  Seems to me like the perfect answer.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 24, 2008)

mrhnau said:


> Caver, Sadly, society and those beloved jewelers are very good at convincing women that they need the best pebble. I got engaged when I was still in grad school, so I was not on the high end of the earning spectrum. There comes the inevitable "comparing of rings" with coworkers whose fiancee/husband is a lawyer/doctor/rich guy. Sad as it is, that kind of social pressure exists. Same thing that makes people go buy nicer cars than they can afford, bigger houses, more expensive clothes.




Yeah, sad  but true. Thats why marketing firms hire psychology majors because they can better understand how to get into the inner workings of our psyches and know what buttons to push to get consumers to buy, buy, buy. They feed off our own inner senses of inadequacies because they know that no matter what we do it will never be enough (deep down inside). 

Anyway, I said I was a hopeless romantic but I'm not naive :wink1:


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## shesulsa (Mar 24, 2008)

I think it's most interesting the love affair women have with diamonds, especially given the truth behind their value and the abominable conditions under which they are mined.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 24, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I think it's most interesting the love affair women have with diamonds, especially given the truth behind their value and the abominable conditions under which they are mined.


 
Hush, Georgia, it's supposed to be a secret that the value of diamonds is artificially inflated to a vast degree .  

As to the conditions part, I wholeheartedly agree - that's why the stones in my missus's ring are certificated as Conflict Free.  It's awfully easy for a supplier just to _claim_ that tho' and print up a nice document to the effect.  As a consumer you can only try to make your choices ethical and hope you're not being hoodwinked.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 24, 2008)

Ceicei said:


> Oftentimes it is the bride (and her family) who pays for the cost of the wedding dress, cake(s), and all the costs associated with the wedding. This could easily equal to or be more than the cost of the ring.


 
I can see your point, about cost. Her family pays for the wedding and he pays for the ring.




Ceicei said:


> In olden times (and still going on with other areas of the world), the bride comes with a dowry which will then belong to the groom. It is not strange for this to be an agreement between families rather than between couples--sometimes love plays little or no part of the equation.


 
And in those cultures, the advertisement is much different then 3 months gross salary for a ring. And if it is an agreement between families most likely the family on both sides is helping as per tradition calls.



Ceicei said:


> Now the weddings, at least currently, appear to have the wedding costs shared by both the bride's and groom's families. The traditional ways of "she does/pays this" and "he does/pays that" seem to be evolving more into unique and unusual types of weddings that are more of an expression of the couples' shared love for certain places/activities, and or hopes/goals.
> 
> - Ceicei


 
What I have had to explain to some including my ex, is that at some point, the wedding no longer is about the couple. The wedding might still be about her, butin most cases from what I have seen it turns into the mothers wanting this picture perfect wedding and will spend what ever it takes to make up for their wedding and or to show the rest of thier family and friends this great party. 

Some of the biggest weddings I have seen have not had long marriages, but some of the cheaper have had longer marriages. Although there are cases on both sides that are still married to show that it is up to those involved as well to make it work.

Thank you for sharing.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 24, 2008)

BrandiJo said:


> I got married not to long ago, and i can not see spending THAT much money on a ring. Had my husband not been able to get his great grandmas ring (free) i wouldn't have wanted him to get one at all. Not because i want a pricey family heirloom but because i don't want him to spend the money on something like that. THe same came into play with our wedding bands, we wanted something strong, unique and cost effective, we chose 60 dollar titanium matching bands that came with a free inscription. I thought that we had better things to spend our money on then a set of rings. Granted i love my wedding and engagment rings and i am glad we where able to go the route we did, but if we had to do with out or if he couldnt get this ring i would have been just as happy not getting anything at all. Love is far deeper the the size of your ring or how much it cost.
> 
> As for the splitting of costs, again the huge 5k weddings are over rated. the Dj was the most expensive thing we had and he was 400 bucks. My family and i paid for most of it but we did it on a budget and pry a whole lot less then what my ring is worth, and again no where near what our love is or means.


 

I knew of one couple where the great grandmother's ring was good enough for a place holder but she wanted her own ring. Now I can understand someone wanting something for them form their loved one. But in this case it had more to do with size and bragging rights amongst her friends and family.


Personally I like the simple bands and the harder the better as I end up bumping it all the time.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 24, 2008)

grydth said:


> I must be from the Civil War era.... when we became engaged in 2005, we discussed what we could realistically afford.... we visited a jeweler who was an old friend and my wife designed it and picked the stones and we both came out happy. What a day when she received it!
> 
> Now, thanks to what I've learned here, I know better.
> 
> ...


 
You can tell her all the things you posted here. You could also tell her that the norm or average is for people to get a divorce. You could add this into your failure, of having of loving spouse who shows you with little things over time and you the same for her. 

Personally I wish I could fail on the same magnitude.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 24, 2008)

Sukerkin said:


> *Caver* makes a very good point whereby the retailers apply a pressure of their own to urge people (well, men, let's be honest) to burn huge amounts of cash on something which is merely a visual recognition symbol of a question.
> 
> This is not an issue that is simple as that tho', as there are inferences of status involved for both sides of the proposal and the problem is further clouded by opinions that are external to the couple.
> 
> ...


 

So you gave in and bought her the big ring. 

She has it and wears it? I hope she does.

She is happy. You are happy. 

Maybe you could have spent the money elsewhere but you both are happy which in the end is what it takes. right?


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## shesulsa (Mar 24, 2008)

The ring my husband wanted was out of my price range - and at least as expensive as my set, btw.


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 24, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> The ring my husband wanted was out of my price range - and at least as expensive as my set, btw.


 
I understand this. And this should be a major point for both sides as stated by many. Buy what you can and want and are happy with. There are to be compromise as there will be in the marriage.


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## Cryozombie (Mar 25, 2008)

When I proposed, my girl was an office manager for a jewelry store.

You can be damn sure that her ring cost ME more than 3 months salary.

She kept hers AND mine in the divorce.​


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## SensibleManiac (Mar 25, 2008)

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth:

I spent 2 months salary on the ring, just made sure I got something that she would love.
I spent over $20 000 on the wedding but made that back in gifts from the guests plus the money our parents both gave us. 
In many peoples' eyes this was a pretty simple wedding.

In the end though, the most important thing should be the investment of time and energy to make the marriage work.

I agree that conflict free diamonds should be sought, (you can never be 100% sure of what you're getting though but it is worth it to try). One suggestion would be to try and get Canadian diamonds. They are stamped with an almost microscopic maple leaf that can be seen under magnification. Ask your jeweler about them, they are incredibly difficult to forge.

Back to the original topic, you can always deal for the price especially if you pay cash at most jewelers. Also tell them you'll be buying the wedding bands from them if they make you a good price.
2 months salary (depending on your salary) is usually more than enough.


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## FearlessFreep (Mar 25, 2008)

My wife's engagement ring and wedding band were pretty simple, no where close to 2-3 months income (even at the time where that income wasn't much).  My wedding band was pretty simple/cheap too.

But yesterday we just had our 18th year Anniversary, so I guess we did  something right


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## shesulsa (Mar 25, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> My wife's engagement ring and wedding band were pretty simple, no where close to 2-3 months income (even at the time where that income wasn't much).  My wedding band was pretty simple/cheap too.
> 
> But yesterday we just had our 18th year Anniversary, so I guess we did  something right


artyon:

Congratulations!


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## Sukerkin (Mar 25, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> artyon:
> 
> Congratulations!


 
I second that emotion :rei:.


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## terryl965 (Mar 25, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> My wife's engagement ring and wedding band were pretty simple, no where close to 2-3 months income (even at the time where that income wasn't much). My wedding band was pretty simple/cheap too.
> 
> But yesterday we just had our 18th year Anniversary, so I guess we did something right


 

*Congratulation*


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## Kreth (Mar 25, 2008)

I honestly believe this "custom" was started by a jewelry store somewhere. My fiancee's ring was nowhere near that amount. I just asked her to pick a ring she liked, and went with that. In turn, she decided to buy me a vocal processor that I had been looking at for my band, as an engagement present.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 25, 2008)

FearlessFreep said:


> My wife's engagement ring and wedding band were pretty simple, no where close to 2-3 months income (even at the time where that income wasn't much).  My wedding band was pretty simple/cheap too.
> 
> But yesterday we just had our 18th year Anniversary, so I guess we did  something right



Way to go! Both of you! Gee only 32 more years til your golden anniversary... keep it up!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 25, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I honestly believe this "custom" was started by a jewelry store somewhere. My fiancee's ring was nowhere near that amount. I just asked her to pick a ring she liked, and went with that. In turn, she decided to buy me a vocal processor that I had been looking at for my band, as an engagement present.


 
Actually I do beleive it was started by these people... I can't imagine why 

MY wife didn't want an engagement ring, she had no idea what they were, they don't use them in China and they are too expensive. I got her one last Christmas, my westerner guilt kicked in, but she still was going to take it back it was too expensive and silly in her thinking. I did talk her into keeping it but she still does not wear it much.

I do love that woman.


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## little_miss_fracus (Mar 25, 2008)

'Scuse me, but have any of you guys seen MA-Caver? There's a missing persons thread on him.


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

The wedding band used to be a plain metal (usually gold) ring. 

The diamond wedding ring and the engagement ring, especially with a piece of fused carbon of its own, is a recent development. It is entirely the product of marketing.

The diamond industry started the "tradition" explicitly and calculatedly. Early movie stars were showered with diamonds and money in return for wearing them in public and talking them up. Jewelers were encouraged to push diamonds for wedding and engagement rings. Prices were kept artificially high by the campaign to "Never sell a diamond". It makes no sense at all that any other material would have a resale price, but that fused lumps of carbon are somehow special. 

The "three months' salary" rule of thumb was, again, a product of the diamond miners' advertising. It makes no sense at all. Three months' salary could put a down payment on a farm, buy some good horses or turn a hovel into a decent house. And all that money is, again, going into something which can't be sold. It's not an investment. It's an expensive rat hole.

Weddings have always been celebrations. What is more worth partying about? The things we think of as Ancient Hoary Traditions - the Dress, the Cake and so on were there to show off the bride's family's wealth. They are potlatch-products of mid- to late-Victorian culture. Come to think of it so is the brides_*maid*_. In earlier days it was traditional include as attendants friends who were pregnant or had small children. The magical aspects should be obvious. Choosing attendants specifically because they can't demonstrate fertility seems a little odd in context.

The White Queen has been dead for a long time. Most of us have better use for money than throwing it away to fatten the Anglo-American Corporation's bottom line. If you want to give your Intended a nice expensive gift there are other things that would be just as nice. If you want to symbolize the permanence of your connection you could plant a thousand Bristlecone pines together; with luck they'll be around for four millennia. Buy a baby tortoise to pass on to your grandchildren. Get her a couple shares of Halliburton stock.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 25, 2008)

I use to get a kick out of the DeBeers commercials that were saying &#8220;3 months Salary&#8221; 

With the undertones of if you don&#8217;t think she is worth 3 months salary you don&#8217;t deserve her you pathetic low-life looser. 

Of course I could have been over reacting and overly sensitive, I was recently divorced and not liking anybody to much at the time. :idunno:


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

Tiel and I don't have engagement rings. The betrothal wasn't planned. I didn't want to spook her, so I let her catch me and and do the proposing.

We don't have wedding rings. Her parents offered to give us their wedding bands, but there didn't seem any point. We thought of exchanging kerises at the wedding but decided against it. Seriously.

So far we've been married seventeen years in sickness and health, for better or worse, for richer and poorer - yep, all of those. We don't have any rings. We didn't have a professional photographer, flowers, a wedding consultant, a dress with an unchristly price tag that will never be worn again, a rented tux, a monumental cake or a honeymoon where the innocent virginal girl disappears and emerges as a sexually realized woman. 

But we have a marriage that has lasted more than a standard deviation past the mean and which will last until one of us is put in the ground G-d willing. I can't see how the things that you're supposed to buy to make a marriage conform to the commercial standards of the time would have made it any better.


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> I use to get a kick out of the DeBeers commercials that were saying &#8220;3 months Salary&#8221;
> 
> With the undertones of if you don&#8217;t think she is worth 3 months salary you don&#8217;t deserve her you pathetic low-life looser.


That's exactly the message. If you don't waste money on us you don't love her, and she shouldn't love you. Things like that can poison a relationship at its roots if the participants don't know their own minds and can't recognize the programming for what it is.

The TOS will not permit me to use all nine parts of speech in the manner which the diamond and wedding industries deserve. They hold Love hostage to their extortion and are happy to kill it if they don't get a cut. To my mind that's blasphemy.



> Of course I could have been over reacting and overly sensitive, I was recently divorced and not liking anybody to much at the time.


Nope. You got the shot right in the ten ring.

Sorry to hear about the divorce. I hope you recovered in time.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 25, 2008)

tellner said:


> We don't have wedding rings.


 
We have wedding bands but that was my doing not hers, they don't have them in Beijing. I did get a gold ring from her family, it is tradition to give the groom one I guess but I don't wear it, to heavy and to soft they use 24K in China. 



tellner said:


> We didn't have a professional photographer, flowers, a wedding consultant, a dress with an unchristly price tag that will never be worn again, a rented tux, a monumental cake or a honeymoon


 
we did not have any that either. 

But we did get a GREAT dinner at the #1 Duck restaurants in Beijing out of the deal. Also tradition to go out to eat with the family.... the rather large and extended Chinese family. I found out I am into at least 4 different families here, I lost track after that.

EDIT


tellner said:


> Sorry to hear about the divorce. I hope you recovered in time.



Thanks but that was years ago, I am remarried and rather happy, see above.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 25, 2008)

The diamond ring I gave my wife cost about 1/2 of one month's salary for me.  It was a simple design that we liked, and I got it from a family member who is a third generation jewelry store owner in my home town.  He gave us a very nice deal.

My own gold wedding band cost very little, as I was able to get it wholesale from a jeweler's supply shop (I have been dabbling a bit in making some jewelry, so I have this connection).  Of course this was over 6 years ago, before gold hit over $1000 per ounce.

I think the costs of modern weddings are rediculous.  Everything is marked up, if it is for a wedding.  I suspect that if you hired a caterer for a wedding reception, you would pay more than you would for the same service, if it was just a big party for your friends and family and wasn't connected to a wedding.

We managed to keep our wedding cost down, compared to the national average.  And the average for our area, San Francisco, is much higher than the national.  I felt pretty good about that, but it also meant I could not have as large a guest list as we would have liked.  But we just couldn't see spending any more than we did, for a one-day event.  Weddings are nuts.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 25, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> But we did get a GREAT dinner at the #1 Duck restaurants in Beijing out of the deal. Also tradition to go out to eat with the family.... the rather large and extended Chinese family. I found out I am into at least 4 different families here, I lost track after that.


 
My sifu brought two lion dance teams for our reception.  Most of my family is from the Wisconsin area, so they never had a chance to experience that kind of thing.  It was very cool, and we still have people tell us how much fun they had at our wedding.

Kinda funny, before the wedding I was mentioning the lion dance.  My brothers, who were all groomsmen, were kind of hesitant about that, and asked me, "ok, so what's up exactly with this line dance thing, when are we doing that?"  I started laughing and told them not to worry about it.

Also, I was the only one with a rented tux, I told everyone in my family to just wear something nice but comfortable that they already have.  My wife wore her grandmother's wedding gown, but it did need extensive tailoring and that was a bit pricey.

In the end, I didn't want anyone else to experience any unnecessary expenses or discomfort.  We just had a short ceremony, then it was a party and nobody was expected to do, or not do, anything.  I figured, if you can't eat, drink, and be merry without me telling you how to do it, then you got problems I can't help you with.  Just enjoy yourselves.


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

Xue Sheng, if you had had a Chinese wedding without enough food to sink a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier something would have been seriously wrong. The Chinese take their food almost as seriously as the Jews do.

Flying Crane - you said the Unvarnished Word about the markup in the bridal industry. What's worse, the moment the planning starts the bride and all her female relatives are encouraged to throw out all higher faculties and turn into a brainless emotional wreck. "Bridezilla". "Mother of the Bride". *snarl*

We looked at wedding sites. At least a thousand bucks to rent any place decent *as a wedding venue*. Rent the local Irish pub for the morning? Six hundred bucks, and they were sentimental enough to toss in the first set of the Irish fiddle band that was playing in the afternoon. The owner was tickled. A friend of the family had been ordained as a priest recently. The ordination couldn't be in the cathedral (mold abatement issues), so they held it in the same pub. An ordination. A wedding. Several wakes. I'm betting there have been christenings there since.

Wedding caterer? Twenty or thirty dollars a head for pretty lame "wedding food". Arrange to pick up the barbecue and Lebanese food that morning from local restaurants? Maybe fifteen a person for really good eats.
Decorated wedding cake? Hundreds. 
Cakes from a local bakery? Very reasonable and tasted just as good.

Wedding dress? Even in those days five or ten thousand easy.
We could have hired a seamstress to do just as good a job for a grand. But Tiel went with a very nice black dress painted with Calla Lilies that had belonged to her grandmother. Total cost, zip. And it brought a tear to her mother's eye to see her wearing it.

Rings? See above. 

Booze? We weren't about to pay for that. Many couples don't. We were in a pub. The owners probably doubled their profits for the morning.

Attendants? We didn't have any. We could have had a few friends wear LBDs (for the women) and suits (for the men). We did have a few of the guests who were staying with us help set up the food and decorations the morning of the wedding. Five people got everything set up for about sixty guests in a couple hours. All it took was a little organization.

Total cost for everything? About $3000.

Turn the whole thing over to a Consultant? The sky's the limit. But only until they get the idea of space-tourism nuptials. 

When our dear friends Neil and Maritza got married it was even smaller and easier but just as nice as your average fifteen thousand dollar bridal extravaganza.

A year and a half ago our dear friends Neil and Maritza got married in Neil's aunt's house. The women of the family cooked lunch. I performed the ceremony. Their wedding rings were a suitably geeky yet attractive titanium. Tiel stood in for Maritza's family and kept her from bolting. It was sentimental, beautiful and cost a few hundred bucks tops. 

According to a couple articles the average American wedding costs close to thirty thousand dollars. *Thirty. Thousand. Dollars.* That was three years ago. It's not just an outrage. It's obscene.


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## Sukerkin (Mar 25, 2008)

I completely agree with that post, *Tellner*.  It is the non-wartime equivalent of profiteering and something really should be done about curbing the pressures put upon people to waste so much money.  If they can easily afford it then there's no harm but it still causes what you might term competative-unhappiness for those who cannot afford an extravagant 'do'.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 25, 2008)

tellner said:


> Xue Sheng, if you had had a Chinese wedding without enough food to sink a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier something would have been seriously wrong. The Chinese take their food almost as seriously as the Jews do.
> 
> Flying Crane - you said the Unvarnished Word about the markup in the bridal industry. What's worse, the moment the planning starts the bride and all her female relatives are encouraged to throw out all higher faculties and turn into a brainless emotional wreck. "Bridezilla". "Mother of the Bride". *snarl*
> 
> ...


 
My first wedding was an extravaganza 

I have always maintained that if you VERY first thought after hearing the priest say "until death do you part" is "That is a VERY long time" you are in the wrong place and a few years later it was (happily) all over. But at least I got the ring back.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 25, 2008)

tellner said:


> Flying Crane - you said the Unvarnished Word about the markup in the bridal industry.


 
yup, and that carries over into the jewelry business as a whole.  I know what materials cost.  I suppose a jewelry designer deserves reasonable profit for his design and whatnot, and he is entitled to make a reasonable profit to stay in business and make a living.  But that $500-$600 plain 14k or 18k gold band probably has about $60-$100 worth of gold in it.  Maybe less.

My own 6mm wide plain gold band cost about $80 from the wholesale supplier, about 6 1/2 years ago.



> What's worse, the moment the planning starts the bride and all her female relatives are encouraged to throw out all higher faculties and turn into a brainless emotional wreck. "Bridezilla". "Mother of the Bride". *snarl*


 
perfectly reasonable and lovely individuals completely lose their minds.  it's amazing.



> Decorated wedding cake? Hundreds.
> Cakes from a local bakery? Very reasonable and tasted just as good.


 
We did not have a "wedding cake".  Instead, we picked up my wife's favorite cake from a local bakery, along with three or four cheese cakes.  I think the whole bit cost us about $100 or so.  Compare that to a wedding cake, at a cost of about $25 per person, for a 1 inch square serving.



> According to a couple articles the average American wedding costs close to thirty thousand dollars. *Thirty. Thousand. Dollars.* That was three years ago. It's not just an outrage. It's obscene.


 
Yeah, back when we got married, I think the national average was about $21 thousand.  We managed to come in a few thousand under that.  I was happy we managed that much.  It was still so much money it blew my mind, but here in San Francisco it's pretty hard to do it for less than that without simply eloping.


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## tellner (Mar 25, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> yup, and that carries over into the jewelry business as a whole. I know what materials cost. I suppose a jewelry designer deserves reasonable profit for his design and whatnot, and he is entitled to make a reasonable profit to stay in business and make a living. But that $500-$600 plain 14k or 18k gold band probably has about $60-$100 worth of gold in it. Maybe less.
> 
> My own 6mm wide plain gold band cost about $80 from the wholesale supplier, about 6 1/2 years ago.


 
For that kind of markup just sell me the raw gold. I rent a jeweler's torch with acetylene and buy either a tiny anvil, hammers and stakes or wax, a centrifugal casting machine, casting medium and files and still come out on top. 

In the immortal words of the great Sages of my Tribe:



> Oy gevalt. Such _meshugas_!


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## Flying Crane (Mar 25, 2008)

tellner said:


> For that kind of markup just sell me the raw gold. I rent a jeweler's torch with acetylene and buy either a tiny anvil, hammers and stakes or wax, a centrifugal casting machine, casting medium and files and still come out on top.


 
Or you talk to someone like myself who has the right connections to the wholesalers and isn't inclined to put a 1000% markup on the transaction because I am not a full-time jeweler trying to make a living doing it.  I'm plenty happy with a small markup for my time and effort.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 25, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> Or you talk to someone like myself who has the right connections to the wholesalers and isn't inclined to put a 1000% markup on the transaction because I am not a full-time jeweler trying to make a living doing it. I'm plenty happy with a small markup for my time and effort.


 
Many moons ago when I fixed cars for a living I worked with a guy that was also a Jeweler and he pretty much told me the same thing about markup. But he added if you want to pay less markup buy a larger diamond they were already to high priced to begin with to do the average 1000% make up. He made the most money on smaller stones. But this was many years ago back around the time mammoths went extinct


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 25, 2008)

Kreth said:


> I honestly believe this "custom" was started by a jewelry store somewhere. My fiancee's ring was nowhere near that amount. I just asked her to pick a ring she liked, and went with that. In turn, she decided to buy me a vocal processor that I had been looking at for my band, as an engagement present.


 

Hmmmm Both of you happy? I am not sure that is how it is supposed to work. 

It does sound like a good thing to me though.


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## jks9199 (Mar 25, 2008)

My wife picked her engagement ring and matching wedding band out.  I knew better than to try on my own!  It was reasonably priced, all things considered, about 1 pay period gross.  I paid it off within the 1 year interest-free promotion...

It's not the dollars that go into the ring.  In fact, it's not even the ring at all.  It's the time and work that you put into the relationship.


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## Kacey (Apr 20, 2008)

As bad as this is - spending several months income or more for a wedding band - today I ran across this article about _divorce rings_:



> Industrious women are buying rings for their right hand to celebrate their independence, hard work, and accomplishments. Or are they?
> <snip>
> While I love a diamond as much as the next gal, I have to wonder if this isn't all a clever marketing trick, designed specifically to prey on our culture's current obsession with working, powerful women and mothers. And even if it is such a ploy, is it harmless, or should we be worried? American consumerism is great, and is largely why our opportunistic country can thrive the way it does. But do we really need another Hallmark Holiday, wrapped up in shiny paper and aimed directly at some perceived flock of unwitting female consumers with money to burn?



Has anyone else heard about this... uh... trend?


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## terryl965 (Apr 20, 2008)

Kacey said:


> As bad as this is - spending several months income or more for a wedding band - today I ran across this article about _divorce rings_:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone else heard about this... uh... trend?


 
Yea we have a student that bought herself a divorce ring when it was over. Society needs to get a grip on things.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 20, 2008)

Kacey said:


> As bad as this is - spending several months income or more for a wedding band - today I ran across this article about _divorce rings_:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone else heard about this... uh... trend?




I have heard of this and know of some women who have gone out and bought themselves a ring to celebrate or reward themselves. 

But to me this is no different then the guy or gal going out and buying the new convertible or motorcycle or big screen TV. 

I know some that use to have Divorce parties to burn pictures and other items to show an ending. If this helps them then good.  

The only problem I see in all this are those who are compulsive spenders to make themselves feel better. The items does matter, only the buying matters.  In this case then it is continuing a problem for a person.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 20, 2008)

Kacey said:


> As bad as this is - spending several months income or more for a wedding band - today I ran across this article about _divorce rings_:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone else heard about this... uh... trend?


 
Would not surprise me I once dated a woman (prior to meeting my wife) who had bought herself a gift, just before we meant, to celebrate her divorce... a Rolex to the tune of about $2000... of course she was wondering if she could make mortgage payments but she had a Rolex.


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## Nolerama (Apr 20, 2008)

I've always thought getting a Roth IRA or down payment on a home would be a great token for an engagement, alongside an affordable ring and bands.

Besides, I think I'd rather spend the money on an awesome wedding reception. I'm certain she feels the same way.


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