# after all im still with no sash!



## mantis (Oct 25, 2005)

i just found out after 6 months of training that im still with no sash!
well, i did not attend my yellow graduation, neither did i attend my orange one.  the thing is they told me that i was gonna pass anyway, and that graduation was just a ceremony to perform in front of people by teachers.
so i thought graduation was pointless, and they were just a way to collect fee money from the school!
but now i guess i have 6 more months to get the sashes of my current rank!
what ya'll think?  isnt that retarded? i think it is, but you think i'm the retarded, or the school?


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## Ceicei (Oct 25, 2005)

Going to graduations is often a show of support for your school/style.  It may be just a formality, but it is a way for the school to acknowledge publicly your progress by presenting sashes to students.  Is money the only issue why you don't go?

- Ceicei


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## shesulsa (Oct 25, 2005)

Graduation is an honorable ceremony where you are promoted. It is a recognition ceremony that your teachers plan for you to say to all who can hear that you have worked to achieve that rank.

I suggest that if you intend on continuing to train that you attend your promotions from now on and honor your teachers with the gratitude they deserve.


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## arnisador (Oct 25, 2005)

Formalities matter in traditional martial arts.

Sounds like a message is being sent to you!


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## mantis (Oct 25, 2005)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Going to graduations is often a show of support for your school/style.  It may be just a formality, but it is a way for the school to acknowledge publicly your progress by presenting sashes to students.  Is money the only issue why you don't go?
> 
> - Ceicei


 no, first time i was out of town, and the second time I had a presentation to do in a class... if i knew i would have asked for a make-up graduation, which i know they do!


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## Ceicei (Oct 25, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> no, first time i was out of town, and the second time I had a presentation to do in a class... if i knew i would have asked for a make-up graduation, which i know they do!



Then I would suggest you talk about this sash issue with your instructor.  Only he and you can decide how to resolve this to show progress with your training.

- Ceicei


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## shesulsa (Oct 25, 2005)

I agree with CeiCei - you should absolutely talk about this with your instructor.  Good luck - and please tell us how it goes.


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## Shaolinwind (Oct 25, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> i just found out after 6 months of training that im still with no sash!
> well, i did not attend my yellow graduation, neither did i attend my orange one. the thing is they told me that i was gonna pass anyway, and that graduation was just a ceremony to perform in front of people by teachers.
> so i thought graduation was pointless, and they were just a way to collect fee money from the school!
> but now i guess i have 6 more months to get the sashes of my current rank!
> what ya'll think? isnt that retarded? i think it is, but you think i'm the retarded, or the school?


 
Don't just respect the formalities, love them.


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## DBACPhoenix (Oct 25, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> i just found out after 6 months of training that im still with no sash!
> well, i did not attend my yellow graduation, neither did i attend my orange one.  the thing is they told me that i was gonna pass anyway, and that graduation was just a ceremony to perform in front of people by teachers.
> so i thought graduation was pointless, and they were just a way to collect fee money from the school!
> but now i guess i have 6 more months to get the sashes of my current rank!
> what ya'll think?  isnt that retarded? i think it is, but you think i'm the retarded, or the school?


  If you ignored the ceremony because you have no desire to gain rank, but merely to learn and excel at the art, then in one way it is commendable.  If you ignored the ceremony because you do not want to shell out extra cash, then you dishonor your instructors.  Even though I am firmly against paying money for recognition, if it is your schools custom then you should abide in order to show support.  In either case, if your Sifu would like to recognize your achievements, then you should attend and feel proud out of respect for your Sifu and your school.  Phoenix


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## mantis (Oct 25, 2005)

DBACPhoenix said:
			
		

> If you ignored the ceremony because you have no desire to gain rank, but merely to learn and excel at the art, then in one way it is commendable. If you ignored the ceremony because you do not want to shell out extra cash, then you dishonor your instructors. Even though I am firmly against paying money for recognition, if it is your schools custom then you should abide in order to show support. In either case, if your Sifu would like to recognize your achievements, then you should attend and feel proud out of respect for your Sifu and your school. Phoenix


oh no..
i missed both of the graduations because i was out of town. i was in san francisco both times<br />
but if i knew it was that important i would have asked for a make-up, which i know they do!<br />
my impression was graduation was more like a cultural performance, like the lion dance and what not!<br />
so next month instead of going to green im going to yellow AGAIN haha


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## dmax999 (Oct 25, 2005)

Sash color doesn't matter.  Ceremonies may matter.

Just cause you don't have a green sash doesn't mean you can't be better then the others that do have green sashes.

I like the "no sash" attitude of most Tai Chi schools.


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## mantis (Oct 25, 2005)

dmax999 said:
			
		

> Sash color doesn't matter.  Ceremonies may matter.
> 
> Just cause you don't have a green sash doesn't mean you can't be better then the others that do have green sashes.
> 
> I like the "no sash" attitude of most Tai Chi schools.


you got me wrong
i dont care about the sash color, but it means that i have to waste another 6 months doing the same thing and i wont join the intermediate class until i graduate to the green sash (even though i wouldnt wear the physical sash itself anyway)
i think it's time for negotiaion with the school again... 
they must think im the trouble maker of the school after series of other interesting negotiations!


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## 7starmantis (Oct 26, 2005)

Ok, I hope this doesn't come off as rude or insulting. Mantis, it seems you are disatisfied with your school. You have made several remarks here in that light. If you are maybe you should look for a different school or different system. I dont mean that harsh, but mantis is not for everyone as is any system. You must find a style and school that meet your specific needs and desires. If your school is not doing that, you should look for one that will.

Now, also I would say that in my opinion belt color, or sash color means absolutely crap. The further along I get the more I realize that. In fact, I'm getting ready to take my black 2 level test and I would honestly prefer to not wear a sash or belt at all! However, if your school or teachers hold a graduation and want their students to wear sashes you should respect that. I wear a sash only because my sifu wants me to. If he said he didn't care, I would never even see my sash. But its really a way for me to show respect and gratitude to my sifu. I wear my black 1 level sash as an example for younger students, and to show my sifu's hard work with me. My skill level is directly related to my sifus skill and teaching ability. For me to ignore his levels would be to sort of disrespect his hard work with me. 

Does that make sense at all? If you have to wait to move up, think of it as an opportunity to really learn and understand that material. As a black level student, I'm constantly seeing the need for understanding and drilling the basics!

7sm


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> Ok, I hope this doesn't come off as rude or insulting. Mantis, it seems you are disatisfied with your school. You have made several remarks here in that light. If you are maybe you should look for a different school or different system. I dont mean that harsh, but mantis is not for everyone as is any system. You must find a style and school that meet your specific needs and desires. If your school is not doing that, you should look for one that will.
> 
> Now, also I would say that in my opinion belt color, or sash color means absolutely crap. The further along I get the more I realize that. In fact, I'm getting ready to take my black 2 level test and I would honestly prefer to not wear a sash or belt at all! However, if your school or teachers hold a graduation and want their students to wear sashes you should respect that. I wear a sash only because my sifu wants me to. If he said he didn't care, I would never even see my sash. But its really a way for me to show respect and gratitude to my sifu. I wear my black 1 level sash as an example for younger students, and to show my sifu's hard work with me. My skill level is directly related to my sifus skill and teaching ability. For me to ignore his levels would be to sort of disrespect his hard work with me.
> 
> ...


no offense taken. it's actually those kind of words that make me think 
you are right. 
I believe i already PM'd you asking advice on several issues so many times, that I think you're already bored of my questions. I asked you a lot about the style, and about the school too.  
there are absolutely things that i dont like about the school and the style itself, but i think there are more things that i love about this school.  Only one of those things that I love is enough to keep me in the school. 
I will tell you a short story on why im here:
one day i decided to google my master to see what's written on him on the internet, and i find one of YOUR posts talking about the school, so i signed up for MT just to talk to you about my school. Knowing this now, you should not be expecting me to be talking about positive things because i already see them, but you should expect me to ask you about what I dont like and my goal is that I make sure I want to make the commitment for the next three years.
which raises another issue, that I have problems with commitment in general.
Again, i didnt mean the sash as the physical sash itself, but i meant the level. my concern was that I have to repeat the 6 months that I already spent at the school.
and once again, I missed both of my graduation because I was on work trips to San Francisco, but my mistake is not worrying about the make-up.
I think I will have to talk to my teacher today to see what he thinks and I will update you on that. Maybe the school got offended and he decides to kick me out, maybe it's not a problem, i dont know.. i'll let you know by tonight.
btw, I have to give you credit that you made me think deeper and about the style and the school. so thank you again!


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## 7starmantis (Oct 26, 2005)

No no, I'm not tired of your questions, I'm glad your asking them! Its hard to fit in your training around work and everything I know that for sure, but its more about the journey. Your skill is still increasing even if your at the same level you were before. I'm flatered that you signed up here simply because of my post, I'm glad your here and asking questions. Thats vital to the learning process! Keep me updated on how things are going.

Oh, maybe you could list what you like and dislike about the style your studying, that would be interesting to see.

7sm


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> No no, I'm not tired of your questions, I'm glad your asking them! Its hard to fit in your training around work and everything I know that for sure, but its more about the journey. Your skill is still increasing even if your at the same level you were before. I'm flatered that you signed up here simply because of my post, I'm glad your here and asking questions. Thats vital to the learning process! Keep me updated on how things are going.
> 
> Oh, maybe you could list what you like and dislike about the style your studying, that would be interesting to see.
> 
> 7sm


What I dont like is:
-class time too short, i dont get enough work out or stretching. I have to stretch before going to class and I still get leg muscle problems from kicking.
-no sparring, bag training, or even enough focus mitts. but i have to be fair, there's at least 2 instructors that walk around the class correcting students.
-the fact that you do everything while standing in the same spot. maybe I am used to have both moving and striking at the same time from my TKD training.
-Style-related: no fancy kicks!
-3-year contract (this relates to my committment prob's)
-I expect the sifu to show up at least once in a month or two or even in 6 months to see us, but he doesnt.

What I like:
-All of my instructors and the friendly/respecting environment (thanks to Mr. Tai, Mr. Hung, Mr. Hsiao, and Mr. Ho)
-The instructors are very helpful including the ones in TX 
-all the weapons they teach and the fact that they teach weapons
-the fact they teach tai chi
-the mentality of being soft, not wasting energy then hitting hard of mantis
-I like the Chi'Na part of training and the seminars.

what is difficult:
-doing my masters + working full-time (requires travelling a lot, both driving and flying)
-getting used to the type of training after spending some time in other arts, and other teaching styles
-always wishing to be doing something else. like if i watch "Only the Strong" i wish to switch to capoeira, if I watch supreme kicks people I wish I go back to TKD, and even when i see other styles of KF I wish Im doing them!!! 
-I have a brother of mine who goes to class with me. he's just lazy, and hesitant way more than I am, which is not helping me at all. and I feel im bound to his decision too (at least partially). he's my older brother!

that's about it. thanks for listening.
btw, you're not the only person that I bother, I also bother Mr. Terry with a bunch of questions about TKD schools, styles and other related things. Oh, and I get advice from Mr. Shaolinwind as well.
thanks to all of you guys!


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## 7starmantis (Oct 26, 2005)

um, I meant things you like or dislike about the *style*.

You must remember you are starting at a basic level class, your not going to be put right in the full contact fighting right away regardless of experience. 

7sm


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## mantis (Oct 26, 2005)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> um, I meant things you like or dislike about the *style*.
> 
> You must remember you are starting at a basic level class, your not going to be put right in the full contact fighting right away regardless of experience.
> 
> 7sm


 the style? the style is all good, except the low kicks.  when i was looking for school like a year ago i was looking for dragon, which i found out is very rare, then i thought eagle is good, but i couldnt really find a good school. anyway, i think this is over now. I think I am sticking with the school after all. and as far as the testing thing went my teachers were very understanding.  they said it's not a problem and I can do the tests any time. so im doing them next tuesday.  btw, Mr. Hung says hi to you, Mr. 7starmantis. I told him there's a person who's encouraging me and helping me out with kung fu, he was like I KNOW THAT MAN! he also recommended i read a couple of books including the ones you told me about. so i bought them! so that would be all for now! thanks again Adam for helping me out.


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## Jonathan Randall (Oct 27, 2005)

dmax999 said:
			
		

> Sash color doesn't matter. Ceremonies may matter.
> 
> Just cause you don't have a green sash doesn't mean you can't be better then the others that do have green sashes.
> 
> I like the "no sash" attitude of most Tai Chi schools.


 
Agreed.

I like the no rank attitude as well. It is my considered opinion that ranks cause the martial arts no end of trouble. Unfortunately, there's no easier or more efficient way for an instructor of a large school to tell who is needs to work on what material.


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## Jonathan Randall (Oct 27, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> I think I am sticking with the school after all. and as far as the testing thing went my teachers were very understanding. they said it's not a problem and I can do the tests any time. so im doing them next tuesday.


 
Glad to hear it. Miscommunications can cause ill will to build up. The best course of action is almost always to ask (respectfully).


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## arnisador (Oct 27, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> when i was looking for school like a year ago i was looking for dragon, which i found out is very rare, then i thought eagle is good, but i couldnt really find a good school.



I always thought snake style was very cool, but could never find a teacher.


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## mantis (Oct 27, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> I always thought snake style was very cool, but could never find a teacher.


 it's so weird i have neve heard of mantis before and when i started looking for MA school around me all I can find is either mantis or what claim to be "shaolin" kung fu, but they looked pretty McShaolin (is that a word yet?) all of the styles are crazy cool.. monkey is definitely up there.. drunken is very nice too, dragon, and eagle.. but like i said whenever i watch a movie or a performance i go "I WANT THAT".. haha


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## 7starmantis (Oct 27, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> the style? the style is all good, except the low kicks. when i was looking for school like a year ago i was looking for dragon, which i found out is very rare, then i thought eagle is good, but i couldnt really find a good school. anyway, i think this is over now. I think I am sticking with the school after all. and as far as the testing thing went my teachers were very understanding. they said it's not a problem and I can do the tests any time. so im doing them next tuesday. btw, Mr. Hung says hi to you, Mr. 7starmantis. I told him there's a person who's encouraging me and helping me out with kung fu, he was like I KNOW THAT MAN! he also recommended i read a couple of books including the ones you told me about. so i bought them! so that would be all for now! thanks again Adam for helping me out.



I'm glad to hear that, it seems things worked out great for you. I look forward to hearing about your progress! I think you will enjoy the books as well, just dont get discouraged, spend the time you have and just let your skill progress as it will.

Now, just curious, what do you not like about low kicks?

7sm


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## mantis (Oct 27, 2005)

7starmantis said:
			
		

> I'm glad to hear that, it seems things worked out great for you. I look forward to hearing about your progress! I think you will enjoy the books as well, just dont get discouraged, spend the time you have and just let your skill progress as it will.
> 
> Now, just curious, what do you not like about low kicks?
> 
> 7sm


mantis makes low kicks sound smart, especially that you are always grabbing when you kick. so the kicks seem to be safe.

i know all that, but to me, personally, i like fancy kicks, spin kicks, roundhouse kicks, jump side kicks.. kicks you usually see in movies, like ong-bak, bruce lee's movies, chuck norris, and even van damme (no i dont like him but i like his kicks)
i think it's just a personal preference...
+ throught middle and high school I always got an A+ in PE for being able to do splits! (thanks to high kicks haha)
anyway, let me ask you this, do you know if they're gonna stretch us to do splits or that's not important in mantis either?
there's this outside crossing kick that we're doing, every time my leg lands back it hurts me. i wonder if it's a matter of stretching or if im kicking wrong....


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## 7starmantis (Oct 27, 2005)

Haha, yeah CMA is pretty heavy on the stretching aspect! We do "chinese splits" with one foot on the heel, the other foot on the side. Its all a matter of intent, high jumping spinning movie kicks can get you killed. But they are very athletic.

7sm


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## dmax999 (Oct 27, 2005)

mantis said:
			
		

> it's so weird i have neve heard of mantis before and when i started looking for MA school around me all I can find is either mantis or what claim to be "shaolin" kung fu, but they looked pretty McShaolin (is that a word yet?) all of the styles are crazy cool.. monkey is definitely up there.. drunken is very nice too, dragon, and eagle.. but like i said whenever i watch a movie or a performance i go "I WANT THAT".. haha


 
I think Shaolin tends to be a generic northern kung-fu term. I'm at a school that calls itself Shaolin, but its really Mizhong Lohan and Northern Eagle Claw, with occasional other stuff thrown in. There are probably hundreds of kung-fu styles with the first 50% or so of what you learn being exactly the same, instead of being confusing they all adopted the term Shaolin.


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