# What defines a sport? Is fishing a sport? How about video game tournaments?



## Chrisinmd

In your opinion what defines a sport? Is fishing a sport? How about video game tournaments?


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## Gerry Seymour

I've seen sport defined as "physical competition", just "competition", "fun" (more common in British usage, I think), "physical activity", and a lot else. Picking a single definition is the problem. And with about half of them we get into the debate over how much physical activity/exertion is required. Some folks don't consider golf a sport because there's no running (does that also make hiking not a sport? or is it a sport if the trail's really steep?).


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

gpseymour said:


> And with about half of them we get into the debate over how much physical activity/exertion is required. Some folks don't consider golf a sport because there's no running (does that also make hiking not a sport? or is it a sport if the trail's really steep?).


The reverse of that is you don't need physical activity, but competition. My definition for sport would be organized competition. So golf is a sport because you're competing (either with the few guys around you, or with everyone there), while hiking there is no 'winner' making it not a sport. With the definition being competition, fishing normally wouldn't be a sport, but if you're participating in a contest to get the most fish/get the biggest fish in a set time limit, that is a sport. Ideally, it would also have to be a continuous thing, otherwise it would just be classified as a game, or a contest, rather than a sport.


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## dvcochran

gpseymour said:


> I've seen sport defined as "physical competition", just "competition", "fun" (more common in British usage, I think), "physical activity", and a lot else. Picking a single definition is the problem. And with about half of them we get into the debate over how much physical activity/exertion is required. Some folks don't consider golf a sport because there's no running (does that also make hiking not a sport? or is it a sport if the trail's really steep?).


Agree. And nearly every person has a slightly different viewpoint here. 
For me, the one constant is a sport cannot be sedentary. For example competition chess is Not a sport. Competitive? Absolutely. But a sport? No.
So while I do cringe at activities like golf, bowling, and curling being called a sport I grudgingly have to agree.


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## dvcochran

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> The reverse of that is you don't need physical activity, but competition. My definition for sport would be organized competition. So golf is a sport because you're competing (either with the few guys around you, or with everyone there), while hiking there is no 'winner' making it not a sport. With the definition being competition, fishing normally wouldn't be a sport, but if you're participating in a contest to get the most fish/get the biggest fish in a set time limit, that is a sport. Ideally, it would also have to be a continuous thing, otherwise it would just be classified as a game, or a contest, rather than a sport.


How do you qualify the 'competition' with one's self or say the terrain while hiking?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

dvcochran said:


> How do you qualify the 'competition' with one's self or say the terrain while hiking?


To me, when it comes to sports, it's specifically competition against other actual beings. Since they can compete back.
If I'm hiking/climbing, I might consider it as a competition against the terrain, but the terrain certainly wouldn't. It's not going out of it's way to make it tougher to climb, it just is. And doesn't care what I think.
As for competition with one's self-that's an important thing in general, and builds character but it's not a sport itself since your not competing against another person/being.
Also: including being just cause I also consider things like horse racing a sport. Or even greyhound racing, where there's no jockey.


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## dvcochran

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> To me, when it comes to sports, it's specifically competition against other actual beings. Since they can compete back.
> If I'm hiking/climbing, I might consider it as a competition against the terrain, but the terrain certainly wouldn't. It's not going out of it's way to make it tougher to climb, it just is. And doesn't care what I think.
> As for competition with one's self-that's an important thing in general, and builds character but it's not a sport itself since your not competing against another person/being.
> Also: including being just cause I also consider things like horse racing a sport. Or even greyhound racing, where there's no jockey.


The latter two are very good one's to consider. I would have to say sport or sporting goes beyond just humans. 
I would also align them more with the competition against the terrain as far as the human element. 

From Google:
sport
/spôrt/
See definitions in:
All
Sport
Biology
_noun_

1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
Taking the definition at face value I have to agree with your assertion. But then what do you call things like hiking?


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## Chrisinmd

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> To me, when it comes to sports, it's specifically competition against other actual beings. Since they can compete back.



So would auto racing be considered a "sport"?  Your competing against other people but that person is in a automobile.  Also someone above mentioned above not being sedentary as a requirement for being a sport so then setting in a car would seem to remove it from being a sport.


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## stanly stud

well i propose that drinking is a sport. I remember a drinking competition in a bar in Canada. was the yard of ale glass. i was as pished as a fart when i did it..


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

dvcochran said:


> Taking the definition at face value I have to agree with your assertion. But then what do you call things like hiking?


For me that just falls under the realm of recreation. Not anything more specific, similar to camping.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Chrisinmd said:


> So would auto racing be considered a "sport"?  Your competing against other people but that person is in a automobile.  Also someone above mentioned above not being sedentary as a requirement for being a sport so then setting in a car would seem to remove it from being a sport.


Personally yeah. People are always in something-if a fencer is in fencing gear, and using fencing equipment, it's still a sport. Same with rugby/football-what matters is if there's another person (or being I guess) controlling it.


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## stanly stud

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> For me that just falls under the realm of recreation. Not anything more specific, similar to camping.


maybe but there are timed events too in & out the military. Rucking or as we called it tabbing cross country with weight on your back. trust me you do sweat. so a bit of a grey area.


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## drop bear

Chrisinmd said:


> So would auto racing be considered a "sport"?  Your competing against other people but that person is in a automobile.  Also someone above mentioned above not being sedentary as a requirement for being a sport so then setting in a car would seem to remove it from being a sport.



It is a grey area as to how much physical activity goes on in motor sports. I assume the Dakar would be physical but a burnout comp at the summernats less so.


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## drop bear

stanly stud said:


> maybe but there are timed events too in & out the military. Rucking or as we called it tabbing cross country with weight on your back. trust me you do sweat. so a bit of a grey area.



Yeah there is also those super enduro events


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## stanly stud

drop bear said:


> It is a grey area as to how much physical activity goes on in motor sports. I assume the Dakar would be physical but a burnout comp at the summernats less so.


most of these Formula 1 drivers have to be in good shape none are fatty boys. Most do train but it´s more mental fitness too on the track. however they are under huge stress so physical fitness is a must.


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## Dirty Dog

This was actually a question taken up by the courts in the US. They defined a sport as an activity primarily intended for competition.


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## jobo

Chrisinmd said:


> In your opinion what defines a sport? Is fishing a sport? How about video game tournaments?


its a thorny, issue, some games cant get into the Olympic,  like darts for instance, they cant  have all those fat oldmen in the parad3, it does however require a fair amount of exertion, just as much as say shooting or archery, which are in, but then those are middle class sports,  where as darts is very working class.

golf, in a golf cart is just about as sedentary as you can get, if thats sport then just about anything is, certainly fishing

if you walking round , then it much the same as hiking, only  not anywhere near  as far with more rests,  i have every reason to believe chess is more physicaly taxing

motorsport takes considerable fitness, even at the low level i did it at, top level is as physicaly demandibg as anysport, except maybe heavy weight boxing and gymnastics.

what about killing things,  is that a sport,  BANG, that it done?

what about cycling? , thats spirts,  but is it still a sport if i do it with no compitiction  , im traing to do 300 miles, thats the competitor the,distance and the time


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## dvcochran

Chrisinmd said:


> So would auto racing be considered a "sport"?  Your competing against other people but that person is in a automobile.  Also someone above mentioned above not being sedentary as a requirement for being a sport so then setting in a car would seem to remove it from being a sport.



Me and two of my friends built and raced a winged sprint dirt track car when were around 25 years old. I was the driver and I can tell you 50 laps on a 1/2 mile track is a real workout. While you are setting I would have a hard time calling it sedentary.

sed·en·tar·y
/ˈsednˌterē/

_adjective

1. _(of a person) tending to spend much time seated; somewhat inactive.

_2. _(of work or a way of life) characterized by much sitting and little physical exercise.

Each indicates inactivity. This is what I mean by saying something sedentary cannot be a sport. 
I know, I know; "but you are setting down".  To me, if you are doing something that requires physical exertion it has to fall under a different category. IMHO


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> Agree. And nearly every person has a slightly different viewpoint here.
> For me, the one constant is a sport cannot be sedentary. For example competition chess is Not a sport. Competitive? Absolutely. But a sport? No.
> So while I do cringe at activities like golf, bowling, and curling being called a sport I grudgingly have to agree.


I'd say by your definition pro golf is a sport, but not most amateur golf, since most folks walk only the last few yards to their ball (indeed, many clubs don't allow players to NOT ride a cart). Sorry, just a personal rant. I much prefered golf when I could walk.


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## Gerry Seymour

Chrisinmd said:


> So would auto racing be considered a "sport"?  Your competing against other people but that person is in a automobile.  Also someone above mentioned above not being sedentary as a requirement for being a sport so then setting in a car would seem to remove it from being a sport.


This is where we get into the "exertion" question. My understanding is that racecar driving is pretty physically demanding. So, back into that morass of vagueness.


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## Dirty Dog

gpseymour said:


> This is where we get into the "exertion" question. My understanding is that racecar driving is pretty physically demanding. So, back into that morass of vagueness.



A Top Fuel driver can hit 8G acceleration off the line. I think that counts as physically demanding....


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## stanly stud

gpseymour said:


> I'd say by your definition pro golf is a sport, but not most amateur golf, since most folks walk only the last few yards to their ball (indeed, many clubs don't allow players to NOT ride a cart). Sorry, just a personal rant. I much prefered golf when I could walk.


I remember as a kid i went caddying to make money at GlenEagles in scotland. I Actually met Sir sean connery there he was playing in a Pro celebrity golf match. Yeah walking around an 18 hole golf course with a bag for 3 or 4 hours was good exercise. The Americans & japanese gave good tips. One american group were giving me beer & cigerettes on the way round & paid well. was funny.


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## dvcochran

gpseymour said:


> I'd say by your definition pro golf is a sport, but not most amateur golf, since most folks walk only the last few yards to their ball (indeed, many clubs don't allow players to NOT ride a cart). Sorry, just a personal rant. I much prefered golf when I could walk.


Interesting. I do not golf very often so I am not aware of a course that does not allow you to walk. I suppose this is an effective method of getting more people on/off that course each day.


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## Chrisinmd

gpseymour said:


> This is where we get into the "exertion" question. My understanding is that racecar driving is pretty physically demanding. So, back into that morass of vagueness.


.  

Yea i am sure that auto racing requires stamina and quick reactions.  But walking or hiking requires stamina and I dont think they are a sport in most circumstances.  

One other example that came to mind is weight lifting a sport?  I would say yes if your in a competition but just lifting weights in my basement no


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## Gerry Seymour

dvcochran said:


> Interesting. I do not golf very often so I am not aware of a course that does not allow you to walk. I suppose this is an effective method of getting more people on/off that course each day.


There's an impression that folks play faster when they travel faster to the ball. A couple of studies found that not to be true, with a couple of factors likely being responsible (both partners wait at each person's ball when in a cart, and you get a better look at the course when walking so you make decisions on the way there).


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## Tez3

stanly stud said:


> maybe but there are timed events too in & out the military. Rucking or as we called it tabbing cross country with weight on your back. trust me you do sweat. so a bit of a grey area.



Or yomping as the Bootnecks call it being RAF I just used the transport provided


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## stanly stud

Tez3 said:


> Or yomping as the Bootnecks call it being RAF I just used the transport provided


yeah but the Rock apes or RAF Regiment have the 5 miler of Death ...





But seriously i met a few RAF Regiment guys in Germany. they were OK Guys.
I met some to at this place below where we were training there. A lot of small arms ranges. I went into their bar with a mate. had a good drink with a Sgt i think he was. This place was actually an old German SS training area. still old SS stuff there. statues..etc.


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## Tez3

stanly stud said:


> yeah but the Rock apes or RAF Regiment have the 5 miler of Death ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously i met a few RAF Regiment guys in Germany. they were OK Guys.
> I met some to at this place below where we were training there. A lot of small arms ranges. I went into their bar with a mate. had a good drink with a Sgt i think he was. This place was actually an old German SS training area. still old SS stuff there. statues..etc.



My other half was a Rock. We were at Laarbruch, he'd go on exercise in Sennelager of course as well as winter training in Baveria. Before posting to Germany he was on QCS and did the Berlin Tattoo, the squadron stayed in an old  wartime block, the story was that the German troops had been driven into the cellars by the Russians and walled in. It was supposed to be haunted, my OH said it was certainly  very creepy and he'd done public duties at the Tower of London which is reputedly haunted.


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## stanly stud

Tez3 said:


> My other half was a Rock. We were at Laarbruch, he'd go on exercise in Sennelager of course as well as winter training in Baveria. Before posting to Germany he was on QCS and did the Berlin Tattoo, the squadron stayed in an old  wartime block, the story was that the German troops had been driven into the cellars by the Russians and walled in. It was supposed to be haunted, my OH said it was certainly  very creepy and he'd done public duties at the Tower of London which is reputedly haunted.


Sennelager i know very well a big training area. was a few times there. I was in Bergen Hohne 4 years we had Belsen concentration camp right next to us was creepy. The Rail sidings were still there where they brought the jews in. We used them too for our tracked vehicles when going too far away to drive.
I was also 5 years in Herford.
public duties i did at Edinburgh castle in 1988. then we recruited (a cape tour) around Edinburgh area. was good, Hot doing drill in mid summer in No 1 dress.


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## Dirty Dog

AlexandraAbraham said:


> In my humble opinion, fishing and video gaming have absolutely nothing to do with sports. Like, c'mon! I know that fishing is classed as a sport, but it's all about the skill, not the physical activity itself.


That is true of every sport. Skill is pretty much always the single most important factor.


AlexandraAbraham said:


> For me, if there isn't any physical activity involved in the process, then that's definitely not a sport. I believe that if the two were to be "real sports", they would have been included in the list of sports for the Olympic Games, but they aren't.


So according to you, baseball is not a sport.


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## Gerry Seymour

AlexandraAbraham said:


> In my humble opinion, fishing and video gaming have absolutely nothing to do with sports. Like, c'mon! I know that fishing is classed as a sport, but it's all about the skill, not the physical activity itself. For me, if there isn't any physical activity involved in the process, then that's definitely not a sport. I believe that if the two were to be "real sports", they would have been included in the list of sports for the Olympic Games, but they aren't. Don't get me wrong! I love both fishing and video gaming! I even think I'm getting addicted to playing World of Warcraft cause I got myself some wow dungeons. Yeah, that's only my opinion! Don't judge!


We'd have to talk about where to draw the line on "physical activity", wouldn't we? I mean, with fishing there's definitely some physical activity. Sometimes, there's no physical exertion. If it's big fish, there's real physical exertion, use of strength, etc. So is marlin fishing sport, but not crappie fishing?


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## Steve

I think, when you boil it down to the bare essentials, sports are activities that meet the following:

Played competitively
Organized into some kind of league
Requires some kind of physical skill
So, chess is a game because there is no form of physical skill, and in fact, you can play entirely electronically of, if you're smart enough, without even a board. 

Auto racing, golf, tennis, curling, bowling, etc are all sports.

eSports are also sport:


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## Urban Trekker

I define "sport" as a game, where physical attributes - such as speed, strength, accuracy, or timing of movement - affect the outcome.

Chess, for example, wouldn't be a sport because physical attributes play no role in the game.  You're not more likely to win by moving your pieces faster.

Bowling, however, is a sport because physical attributes affect the outcome.

I do realize that, by my definition, Hungry Hungry Hippos and Crossfire are technically sports; but I really don't see a better place to draw the line.


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## _Simon_

Yeah it's a tough one... then we'd have to define "physical attribute". Is the ability to coordinate your fingers correctly to grab the aimed at chest piece and subsequently move it into a different location in space, considered a physical attribute? Where is the liiiiiiine?!?!?!? Or is that just considered generic physical movement unrelated to an improvable attribute?

My head hurts!


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## Urban Trekker

_Simon_ said:


> Is the ability to coordinate your fingers correctly to grab the aimed at chest piece and subsequently move it into a different location in space, considered a physical attribute?


No, because what matters is that the piece gets moved to another square.  Not the speed in which it is moved, etc.

Someone with no hands could have another person move the pieces for them, and 100% the victory or loss would belong to that player with no hands.  That player was making all of the decisions.

But you can't pass a tennis racket onto someone else and own the victory.


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## Urban Trekker

BTW, as far as where I draw the line, I'd rather err on the side of including things as sports that people may not generally see as sports, than the other way around.  If I moved the line to exclude Hungry Hungry Hippos, then things like horseshoes, darts, billiards, etc, would end up being excluded too.


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> I define "sport" as a game, where physical attributes - such as speed, strength, accuracy, or timing of movement - affect the outcome.
> 
> Chess, for example, wouldn't be a sport because physical attributes play no role in the game.  You're not more likely to win by moving your pieces faster.
> 
> Bowling, however, is a sport because physical attributes affect the outcome.
> 
> I do realize that, by my definition, Hungry Hungry Hippos and Crossfire are technically sports; but I really don't see a better place to draw the line.


I think if hungry hungry hippos is ever organized into leagues, it would be a sport.  Until then, even though there is a physical element, it's a game.


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## Steve

_Simon_ said:


> Yeah it's a tough one... then we'd have to define "physical attribute". Is the ability to coordinate your fingers correctly to grab the aimed at chest piece and subsequently move it into a different location in space, considered a physical attribute? Where is the liiiiiiine?!?!?!? Or is that just considered generic physical movement unrelated to an improvable attribute?
> 
> My head hurts!


I'm not sure what you're describing... do you mean chess piece?  That doesn't count because you could just as easily play the game online or even by text without a board at all.


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> BTW, as far as where I draw the line, I'd rather err on the side of including things as sports that people may not generally see as sports, than the other way around.  If I moved the line to exclude Hungry Hungry Hippos, then things like horseshoes, darts, billiards, etc, would end up being excluded too.


Horseshoes, darts, billiards are all sports because they are often played in leagues or organized competitions.  Regarding Hungry Hungry Hippos, it seems like you really... really like that game for some reason.  But dude.  It's not a sport. 

And in related news, while chess is not a sport, chess boxing certainly is:


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## Urban Trekker

Steve said:


> Horseshoes, darts, billiards are all sports because they are often played in leagues or organized competitions.  Regarding Hungry Hungry Hippos, it seems like you really... really like that game for some reason.  But dude.  It's not a sport.


I actually don't like Hungry Hungry Hippos.  In fact, I lost interest in the game by the time I was in 2nd grade.

I'm just bringing it up because the way I define "sport" would include it.  Success in Hungry Hungry Hippos requires two physical attributes: speed and timing.

Do you have a definition of "sport" that excludes Hungry Hungry Hippos, but includes billiards and darts?  Because I'll be happy to adopt it if you do.


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> I actually don't like Hungry Hungry Hippos.  In fact, I lost interest in the game by the time I was in 2nd grade.
> 
> I'm just bringing it up because the way I define "sport" would include it.  Success in Hungry Hungry Hippos requires two physical attributes: speed and timing.
> 
> Do you have a definition of "sport" that excludes Hungry Hungry Hippos, but includes billiards and darts?  Because I'll be happy to adopt it if you do.


I mean, I've only posted it three times now, including at least twice in direct response to you, my man.



Steve said:


> I think, when you boil it down to the bare essentials, sports are activities that meet the following:
> 
> Played competitively
> Organized into some kind of league
> Requires some kind of physical skill
> So, chess is a game because there is no form of physical skill, and in fact, you can play entirely electronically of, if you're smart enough, without even a board.
> 
> Auto racing, golf, tennis, curling, bowling, etc are all sports.
> 
> eSports are also sport:





Steve said:


> I think if hungry hungry hippos is ever organized into leagues, it would be a sport.  Until then, even though there is a physical element, it's a game.





Steve said:


> Horseshoes, darts, billiards are all sports because they are often played in leagues or organized competitions.  Regarding Hungry Hungry Hippos, it seems like you really... really like that game for some reason.  But dude.  It's not a sport.
> 
> And in related news, while chess is not a sport, chess boxing certainly is:


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## Urban Trekker

Steve said:


> I mean, I've only posted it three times now, including at least twice in direct response to you, my man


Got it, but I'm having a hard time buying the "organized into leagues" part.

I think it makes sense that whether or not something is a "sport" is determined intrinsically by the activity itself, not what is done with it extrinsically.

Think about it: let's say that an organized league for a particular thing was just established this morning at a 10 am.  You yourself don't play for this league, but you do play it as a leisurely activity.  You yourself played this morning from 9 am to 11 am.  Would you then say that for the first half, you were not playing a sport, but you were in the second half?

Like I said, what determines whether or not something is a sport needs to be intrinsic to the activity itself.


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## Gerry Seymour

Steve said:


> I think, when you boil it down to the bare essentials, sports are activities that meet the following:
> 
> Played competitively
> Organized into some kind of league
> Requires some kind of physical skill
> So, chess is a game because there is no form of physical skill, and in fact, you can play entirely electronically of, if you're smart enough, without even a board.
> 
> Auto racing, golf, tennis, curling, bowling, etc are all sports.
> 
> eSports are also sport:


The competition part is hard to stick to (though that's certainly what first comes to my mind). Does golf cease to be a sport if playing alone? Perhaps it does.

I'm not at all certain about the requirement of a league. I think touch football is still a sport when some friends just get together to play a game.


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> Got it, but I'm having a hard time buying the "organized into leagues" part.
> 
> I think it makes sense that whether or not something is a "sport" is determined intrinsically by the activity itself, not what is done with it extrinsically.
> 
> Think about it: let's say that an organized league for a particular thing was just established this morning at a 10 am.  You yourself don't play for this league, but you do play it as a leisurely activity.  You yourself played this morning from 9 am to 11 am.  Would you then say that for the first half, you were not playing a sport, but you were in the second half?
> 
> Like I said, what determines whether or not something is a sport needs to be intrinsic to the activity itself.


Right on.  I can't think of an activity that we would normally consider a sport that doesn't have some level of organization to it.  Regarding the idea that someone could create a league this morning, and thus it is a sport... I mean it depends on whether there is actually organization and a league. 

But, yeah, if I actually organize a real tiddly-winks league, where there are players who compete in some kind of structured environment, I'd say it counts as a sport.  So, to answer your question, is it possible for a non-sport to become a sport?  Yes.  100%.  Once again, eSports are a great example.  Playing FPS or other online games was not a sport 30 years ago.  But they organized the activity into competitive leagues and what was once a game is now a sport.


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## Steve

gpseymour said:


> The competition part is hard to stick to (though that's certainly what first comes to my mind). Does golf cease to be a sport if playing alone? Perhaps it does.
> 
> I'm not at all certain about the requirement of a league. I think touch football is still a sport when some friends just get together to play a game.


It's always a sport because the competitive element is always there, even if you choose not to engage in it.  Same with football.  Playing catch is not a sport, but playing football is.


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## Gerry Seymour

Steve said:


> It's always a sport because the competitive element is always there, even if you choose not to engage in it.  Same with football.  Playing catch is not a sport, but playing football is.


That seems like an artificial distinction, then. If golf leagues went away, golf would no longer be a sport. Same for every other sport. But I suppose most distinctions are just our way of categorizing, so if your categorization of sport requires the organized competition, then that's a key distinction.


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## Urban Trekker

The thing about sports is that we know a sport when we see one.  We also know something that is NOT a sport when we see it.  But it appears to be impossible to come up with a definition of the word that includes 100% everything we perceive as a sport, and excludes 100% of the things that we don't.

Funny litte story:  A friend of mine once said that he plays darts and bowls better when he's drunk.  Basically, if a game can be safely played by people who are drunk, it's not a sport.  Of course, this definition is too funny to be seriously adopted, although one can argue that it does make some logical sense.


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## Steve

gpseymour said:


> That seems like an artificial distinction, then. If golf leagues went away, golf would no longer be a sport. Same for every other sport. But I suppose most distinctions are just our way of categorizing, so if your categorization of sport requires the organized competition, then that's a key distinction.


That's all true.  It's artificial.  In the words of the Mighty Thor, 'All words are made up."

And also, yes, this is about categorizing things.


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## Buka

I love sports. And I love games. To me, when I'm watching - it's a sport. When I'm playing, it's a game.


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## Steve

Buka said:


> I love sports. And I love games. To me, when I'm watching - it's a sport. When I'm playing, it's a game.



Unless you do it on the street, and then it's serious... deadly serious.  In my youth, I played football on the streets... to the death.


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## drop bear

Steve said:


> Right on.  I can't think of an activity that we would normally consider a sport that doesn't have some level of organization to it.  Regarding the idea that someone could create a league this morning, and thus it is a sport... I mean it depends on whether there is actually organization and a league.
> 
> But, yeah, if I actually organize a real tiddly-winks league, where there are players who compete in some kind of structured environment, I'd say it counts as a sport.  So, to answer your question, is it possible for a non-sport to become a sport?  Yes.  100%.  Once again, eSports are a great example.  Playing FPS or other online games was not a sport 30 years ago.  But they organized the activity into competitive leagues and what was once a game is now a sport.



So tag would be a game. Competition tag would be a sport.


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## Steve

drop bear said:


> So tag would be a game. Competition tag would be a sport.


I'd flip that to say, because there is a competition Tag, it is a sport.  Full stop.  You may not play in a league, but if you're playing tag by the rules, as a competition, it's sport not game.

Functionally, at this point, how is tag different from other sports?


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## Buka

Steve said:


> Unless you do it on the street, and then it's serious... deadly serious.  In my youth, I played football on the streets... to the death.


We grew up playing football, tacke football, tag football, flag football in college.

In our neighborhood, as teens, if we were too lazy to go up to the college field, we'd play in the street. The huddle was like "Go up to the Burke's car, cut towards the hydrant, button hook at the pothole."

My favorite route.


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## _Simon_

Steve said:


> I'm not sure what you're describing... do you mean chess piece?  That doesn't count because you could just as easily play the game online or even by text without a board at all.


Oops, yep I meant chess not chest 🤣

Yeah fair enough


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## Steve

Buka said:


> We grew up playing football, tacke football, tag football, flag football in college.
> 
> In our neighborhood, as teens, if we were too lazy to go up to the college field, we'd play in the street. The huddle was like "Go up to the Burke's car, cut towards the hydrant, button hook at the pothole."
> 
> My favorite route.


That's exactly how we did it.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Buka said:


> We grew up playing football, tacke football, tag football, flag football in college.
> 
> In our neighborhood, as teens, if we were too lazy to go up to the college field, we'd play in the street. The huddle was like "Go up to the Burke's car, cut towards the hydrant, button hook at the pothole."
> 
> My favorite route.


Sounds about right, except no flag football in my neighborhood.


When I was recovering from a broken leg around 13ish years old, basically the second I got out of the boot, I started going back to the field at the end of the block to play football with my buds. Got my mom to sign off basically saying that it's close by, all people that she knew, and a good way for me to get back to using it while being able to rest. Also informed her it was touch football.

A year ago I informed her that we were playing tackle, and hard tackling at that. If this was the first of such revelations, she probably would have been mad...


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## Urban Trekker

gpseymour said:


> This is where we get into the "exertion" question. My understanding is that racecar driving is pretty physically demanding. So, back into that morass of vagueness.


Funny thing about that.  Check out this link to the Top 10 oldest drivers to ever compete in NASCAR:









						10 of the Oldest NASCAR Drivers (Updated 2021) - Oldest.org
					

Discover the 10 of the Oldest NASCAR Drivers (Updated 2021) here. Prepare to be transported into a rich & fascinating history on the oldest NASCAR drivers that exist.




					www.oldest.org
				




Oldest NASCAR driver to compete was Hershel McGriff, whose last race was in 2018 at the age of 90.  Numbers 2 and 3 were in their late 70's, and number 10 was Jeff Green at the age of 57 in 2020.

You can compete at the professional major league level in racecar driving at the age of 90.  You can't do this in basketball or football.  Hell, you probably couldn't even get together with friends to do it at that age.


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## Steve

keneltyler said:


> Considering the general definition of sport, I don't consider e-sports as a sport. However, because it's still about competition, you can view it as a sport. But, I have to admit that I'm a great fan of counter-strike global offensive, Dota 2, and League of Legends! Moreover, I'm pretty addicted to counter-strike. I can play this game day and night and forget about my family and my everyday life! When I start trading skins on the best CS:GO skin trading platform, I forget about everything in the world! I just expect to get better skin or a significant sum of money!


One of my friends' son was an e-athlete.  At one point, he was one of the top 100 players of Fortnite in the world, and was up there for several other games, too.  He took it very seriously.  Since then, he's moved into the realm of "online personality" and makes a very nice living doing so.


Urban Trekker said:


> Funny thing about that.  Check out this link to the Top 10 oldest drivers to ever compete in NASCAR:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 of the Oldest NASCAR Drivers (Updated 2021) - Oldest.org
> 
> 
> Discover the 10 of the Oldest NASCAR Drivers (Updated 2021) here. Prepare to be transported into a rich & fascinating history on the oldest NASCAR drivers that exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oldest.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldest NASCAR driver to compete was Hershel McGriff, whose last race was in 2018 at the age of 90.  Numbers 2 and 3 were in their late 70's, and number 10 was Jeff Green at the age of 57 in 2020.
> 
> You can compete at the professional major league level in racecar driving at the age of 90.  You can't do this in basketball or football.  Hell, you probably couldn't even get together with friends to do it at that age.


Are you suggesting that it's not a sport if you can do it well past a certain age?  If so, what age is that?  

So, I guess while I wouldn't agree, if you are suggesting that a sport must be physically unsustainable, it would at least be consistent.  I think that might limit "sport" to only a few activities that are high risk, and you'd end up with more exceptions to the rule than otherwise.  

No golf, bowling, billiards, table tennis, tennis, angling, race car driving, or any activity in which one could continue to compete into their old age.  I guess that BJJ would not be sport, either... nor would karate or many other martial arts.  Baseball would be out, too.  Right?


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## Urban Trekker

Steve said:


> One of my friends' son was an e-athlete.  At one point, he was one of the top 100 players of Fortnite in the world, and was up there for several other games, too.  He took it very seriously.  Since then, he's moved into the realm of "online personality" and makes a very nice living doing so.
> 
> Are you suggesting that it's not a sport if you can do it well past a certain age?  If so, what age is that?
> 
> So, I guess while I wouldn't agree, if you are suggesting that a sport must be physically unsustainable, it would at least be consistent.  I think that might limit "sport" to only a few activities that are high risk, and you'd end up with more exceptions to the rule than otherwise.
> 
> No golf, bowling, billiards, table tennis, tennis, angling, race car driving, or any activity in which one could continue to compete into their old age.  I guess that BJJ would not be sport, either... nor would karate or many other martial arts.  Baseball would be out, too.  Right?



Well I did say that if one were more of the following determines the outcome of the game, then it's a sport: speed of movement, accuracy of movement, timing of movement, and exertion of movement.  Of course, no definition of "sport" is going to be perfect, because any possible definition that one can come up with will either include things that are generally not considered sports or exclude things that are.  I'd rather err on the side of the former.  So I'm fully aware that Twister is going to meet my definition of sport, and I'm okay with that.

What you're quoting isn't me trying to insinuate that auto racing is not a sport.  I'm simply challenging the claim got auto racing is "physically demanding," as though it requires the same level as athleticism as as, say, basketball or hockey; despite the claims that NASCAR fans make.


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## caped crusader

Urban Trekker said:


> I'm simply challenging the claim got auto racing is "physically demanding," as though it requires the same level as athleticism as as, say, basketball or hockey; despite the claims that NASCAR fans make.


i think you are not including the prep before the race. actually these Formula 1 drivers have a rigorous fitness programm.
you have to be fit to sit in the cockpit and have razor reactions.


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## Urban Trekker

caped crusader said:


> i think you are not including the prep before the race. actually these Formula 1 drivers have a rigorous fitness programm.
> you have to be fit to sit in the cockpit and have razor reactions.



Again, I'm not saying it's not a sport.  Might be different for Formula 1, but you have to really question the claims of required athleticism if 90 year olds are able to compete with - let alone defeat - men in their 20's.  And we haven't even addressed the fact that women are now in NASCAR.  Other sports require men and women to compete separately.  The NASCAR allows them both to compete together.  Which is a clear indicator that, unlike basketball and football, men do not have an inherent physical advantage over women in NASCAR.  That alone calls into question the claimed required physical athleticism of NASCAR drivers.


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## caped crusader

Urban Trekker said:


> Again, I'm not saying it's not a sport.  Might be different for Formula 1, but you have to really question the claims of required athleticism if 90 year olds are able to compete with - let alone defeat - men in their 20's.  And we haven't even addressed the fact that women are now in NASCAR.  Other sports require men and women to compete separately.  The NASCAR allows them both to compete together.  Which is a clear indicator that, unlike basketball and football, men do not have an inherent physical advantage over women in NASCAR.  That alone calls into question the claimed required physical athleticism of NASCAR drivers.


yeah i understand to a point but i think i am more worried about Transgender athletes in sports


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> Well I did say that if one were more of the following determines the outcome of the game, then it's a sport: speed of movement, accuracy of movement, timing of movement, and exertion of movement.  Of course, no definition of "sport" is going to be perfect, because any possible definition that one can come up with will either include things that are generally not considered sports or exclude things that are.  I'd rather err on the side of the former.  So I'm fully aware that Twister is going to meet my definition of sport, and I'm okay with that.
> 
> What you're quoting isn't me trying to insinuate that auto racing is not a sport.  I'm simply challenging the claim got auto racing is "physically demanding," as though it requires the same level as athleticism as as, say, basketball or hockey; despite the claims that NASCAR fans make.


No definition of anything is perfect, but if your definition of sport includes Twister, your definition is broken.


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## Urban Trekker

Steve said:


> No definition of anything is perfect, but if your definition of sport includes Twister, your definition is broken.



Can you come up with a definition that Twister doesn't meet?


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## Steve

Urban Trekker said:


> Can you come up with a definition that Twister doesn't meet?


Sure.


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## PhotonGuy

Chrisinmd said:


> In your opinion what defines a sport? Is fishing a sport? How about video game tournaments?


Out of the many definitions given for the word "sport" in the Merriam Webster dictionary, I would say that both fishing and video game tournaments could be sports if you view them as forms of recreation, since recreation was one of the definitions given.








						Definition of SPORT
					

to amuse oneself : frolic; to engage in a sport; to mock or ridicule something… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com


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