# Over Stylization



## Nolerama (Jan 20, 2010)

We have a relatively new guy in the gym. He says he's been in and out of the MA's for a number of years now (MT and Karate). Nice enough guy, but he makes an incredible point to over stylize EVERYTHING.

I get this feeling in isolation drills with him that he changes the technique a bit to "look cool" or something like that. In a snap-down drill, he snapped me down, then shot his arm clear across his body with some sort of tiger-claw-esque motion, crossing down/across his centerline, hanging out in that position for a few seconds longer than  As a good training partner, I recovered, and jammed his hand (now at his waist) and took his back a few times to let him know that kind of thing increases his risk of me taking his back (even if I got snapped down).

After the drill I let him know about my feelings on the way he's injecting movie-fu into his MMA training (not in that way, I was really nice about it). His "special" footwork makes him trip over himself. And he hangs out in weird, defensive-ish positions all the time. If they worked for him, then I wouldn't care, but they don't.

Anyone experience this before in a training partner? Any way to correct it?


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## terryl965 (Jan 20, 2010)

It is a shame when people cannot let go of there previous training and listen for there own betterment, it will just take time for him to relize certain things may work better than he saw in the movies. Best of luck and hopefully it will not take that long to make him see the light.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 20, 2010)

Seen this in CMA more than I would like (thank you Kung Fu theater). 

The only things I have seen correct it are time and/or showing them, in application, why what they are doing is not a good idea. But sadly there are other times you simply can't correct it no matter how hard you try and you eventually have to let it go and likely not long after they will go to.


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## Carol (Jan 20, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> Anyone experience this before in a training partner? Any way to correct it?



In that sort of situation, I have said "We need to focus on this particular drill."  Usually that has addressed the situation.  The one time it didn't (I was paired with a distractable teen), I said "Focus, please" in a louder and firmer voice.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 20, 2010)

I do not believe in letting go previous training when entering another art.

But, I do believe the whole reason one goes there is to learn THAT art, and to combine it's good points with ones learned at other places.

But to do that, one first keeps their mouth shut and learns the new techniques till they have mastered them. THEN they can modify them as needed.

Deaf


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## 72ronin (Jan 20, 2010)

He's not holding on to previous training at all.  You mention he has trained Karate and MT (Muay Thai?).

            He's holding on to his personal idea of "something"..  As has been mentioned prob Movie fu  

            Good to hear you made attempts to show him the error of his ways in a respectable way.

            Hoefully he wont attempt chi balls at any other class members in the future (joking)


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## KenpoTex (Jan 20, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> Anyone experience this before in a training partner? Any way to correct it?


 
yes...

Advise them nicely.  
Tell them that you're going to exploit their stupidity the next time they pull their crap (feel free to be a little more subtle than I am )
Hit them when they do it again.


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## jks9199 (Jan 21, 2010)

Depending on the circumstances... it may take thumping him a few times when he does those things.

I've got a student who has developed some bad habits because he does things to try to catch me... which don't work nearly the way he thinks.  He's also got a tendency to over-do some things.  If leaning a little is good, he figures leaning a lot is better...

There's no easy fix; you correct and train and correct...  

If you're both students -- pull him back to the assigned drill when he drifts off.  You might point out the dangers of opening himself up or taking poor stances -- but you're not a teacher at that point, so keep that in mind.


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## Drac (Jan 21, 2010)

jks9119 said:
			
		

> Depending on the circumstances... it may take thumping him a few times when he does those things.
> 
> I've got a student who has developed some bad habits because he does things to try to catch me... which don't work nearly the way he thinks. He's also got a tendency to over-do some things. If leaning a little is good, he figures leaning a lot is better...
> 
> ...


 

..When I taught in the police academy there was always some cadet that though he know more because he had taken some special training in his past and he tried to impress his academy mates by attempting to drop the fat grey haired instructor..It was never pretty..


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## Nolerama (Jan 21, 2010)

I mentioned that there's some things you just don't do, or you'll get taken advantage of when it comes to sparring in multiple ranges.

Like bringing your rear hand back into guard when boxing, elbow in, ready to throw that cross again. You'll be able to defend counterpunches to the head much better.

Bringing the jab back into a high guard. He tends to hang his lead and I always stuff it with my body, and take his back, mentioning that I'd prefer to grapple in that situation, but if I can take a few shots to the back of the head (SD-minded) before dumping him, I will.

In isolation movement drills from side control to mount, where he always postures really high to strike. I upa/shrimp immediately with a high success rate since his mount is pretty light.

In sub-grappling, keep those elbows in! Unless you're playing a specific game (he's definitely not) the chances of my shoot, duck-under, or number of body locks increase exponentially.

Switching stances.... Sigh... Again, unless you're good at it, I suggest specializing in one lead. The transition between switching stances opens you up for takedown.

Keep the hands up... I'm not a fan of the Superman punch since it opens you up a lot... But it definitely works against a guy who's guard is really low, and extended outward.

I've already started talking to him about it and I think he's getting it... Slowly. But he's a Prove It kind of dude... And so I have to prove it in sparring.

He's going to be a really good fighter, IMHO. He has strength and heart, Rocky Balboa-style. Once he gets out of some bad habits when applied to MMA, it'll be a good thing.


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## xfighter88 (Jan 23, 2010)

I say that you have done what would be expected of you. You suggested to him ways to get better. If he listens and learns great. If not you need to "show" him the error of his ways everytime he showboats. If he gets his butt handed to him enough he will change. Don't look for him to give you any credit though. It will probably be "his" idea.


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## ap Oweyn (Jan 25, 2010)

Nolerama said:


> Anyone experience this before in a training partner? Any way to correct it?


 
I'm not sure it's your responsibility to correct it.  

If he's performing the drill as prescribed, but then embellishing it, I think you have the right to offer feedback to whatever degree his embellishment interferes with your training.  But beyond that, I don't know.  It's not that you don't have the right to offer commentary beyond that.  It's just that I don't think it's necessarily your problem.

Within the confines of a drill, his role is to do the drill.  If he adds a bit of theatrics, then so be it.  Within the relatively broader confines of a sparring session or roll, you're going to offer your feedback automatically, by taking his back, submitting him, knocking him on his backside, etc.

What conclusions he draws from all that is yet to be determined, but firmly in the realm of "his problem."

You know he's carrying on like a goof.  The other serious practitioners there know he's carrying on like a goof.  And you can bet your teacher does as well.  Beyond that, I'm not sure it matters.  The guy's clearly choosing his own adventure.  As long as it's not impeding your training, I say "roll your eyes and let live."


Stuart


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## KELLYG (Jan 25, 2010)

I had that problem a couple of times.   One time I was sparing (not my forte) an accomplished sparing team member.  He started showboating and carrying on  I just stopped in my tracks and told him to lighten up that everyone in the building knew he could take me, in sparing that is, and his antics make him look like an ***.  He chilled after that.  

Next I was sparing again against a young guy that liked to bully.  He was a strong kicker and liked to overpower his opponents. But the thing was he got winded quickly and was then useless.  I had had a couple of rounds with him and got it figured.  The next time we spared I stayed out side of range till he got winded and gave it back to him.  The master saw what was happening, it was all he could do not to bust out laughing!!! 

Sometimes you can just tell them what the deal is and others you have to show them what the deal is.


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## Deaf Smith (Jan 25, 2010)

KELLYG said:


> INext I was sparing again against a young guy that liked to bully. He was a strong kicker and liked to overpower his opponents. But the thing was he got winded quickly and was then useless. I had had a couple of rounds with him and got it figured. The next time we spared I stayed out side of range till he got winded and gave it back to him. The master saw what was happening, it was all he could do not to bust out laughing!!!


 
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sun Tzu 

And that is what your master saw. You knew him and yourself well.

Deaf


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## Nolerama (Jan 26, 2010)

He kicked the side of my knee pretty hard in a clinch/control isolation (swim drill looking for a necktie, underhook, wrist control). We made a point by saying no takedowns, or strikes... It doesn't hurt so much as not "feel right." But it hurt a ton when he kicked it.

He's not coming back to the gym.

Definitely going to make it a point to correct new training partners on how Not To Be An Idiot.


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## Aiki Lee (Jan 28, 2010)

We currently have a stuent like this in our dojo. He practices in a bizzarre manner. Odd posturing, relaxing at weird times (almost to the point of going limp), and we've tried correcting him, but he doesn't seem to get it.

The dude's got spirit and could be a great martial artist if he just listened and stopped trying to "challenge" the techniques with "stuff" he claims to know. It's gotten to the point where many people are frustrated with him and even though I hate doing it, it may be time to thump him for good.

The problem is that he will ratch it up and go faster and faster; he's likely to get himself injured.


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## Omar B (Jan 28, 2010)

The that's what you do, ratchet it up.  Bad form and bad practice leads to injury, it's time he learns that first hand.  

This TV karate thing really gets on my nerves.


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