# Charging ram



## KENPOJOE (Dec 5, 2002)

Hi Folks!
Thought i'd go into a technical aspect of technique evolution.
When I originally learned "Charging Ram" I was taught that from a natural stance, execute a left outward downward parry to the outside of my opponent's left arm at or above the elbow to close off the centerline as i stepped with my left foot into a right front twist stance facing 9 o'clock with my right hand cocked to chop.
Now, the present technique, however, list as starting in a right neutral bow and right outward downward diagonal parry to the inside of your opponent's left arm below the elbow as you execute a left outward heel palm to opponent's left temple/face.
So, originally, we closed the centerline and now we're stepping off the line but now on the inside of the opponent's arms...
Why the change?
comments,questions, and answers are encouraged!!!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
www.rebeloskenpokarate.com
http://members.aol.com/kenpjoe/
:::Getting off my soapbox::::soapbox:


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## jfarnsworth (Dec 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Hi Folks!
> Thought i'd go into a technical aspect of technique evolution.
> ...



That's how I have it.


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## Rainman (Dec 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> 
> *Hi Folks!
> Thought i'd go into a technical aspect of technique evolution.
> ...



Hi ya KenpoJoe,

I still use the transitional twist with the left hs going to the collar bone and the right hs penetraiting at the top of the forearm as the movement continues with the right hs the left could be maintaining contact.   As the right continues its arc towards the opponents neck (at the base of the skull) unwind and drop as you make contact at a 45 with said target.    If the blow is stunning use the kicks to further disable.     

I don't belive there is a real change- each sequence could have been designed for a different range or just maybe a slightly different distance or whether the attack is more upright or bent over so positioning of the attacker as well.

Those are my thoughts- cool topic

:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Dec 5, 2002)

I am not sure "why" the change came about, but when we changed over to EPAC (mid 80's) the left hand was almost a sword hand to the clavicle or neck and the right hand parry was very similar to the check in Five Swords after stepping off line.  

The purpose was to slow the momentum of the attacker (executed almost like a lock-out check.)  It helped ensure that the opponent was there for the rest of the technique, as verses redirecting him and his possibly being out of range for the kicks.  If he is in range and slowed down, execute the technique as originally written (and still done by Tracy practitioners) ... it works great!  You get to use something called "Distance Progression", which in EPAC is just a function of Range.  

Usually when I executed the technique, unless your opponent knows to slow down, your parry changes the vector, but does not slow the speed of the attack.  Sometimes I got the kicks, sometimes not.  I then had to go through the most dangerous phase of any technique, the beginning, and reengage with possibly the attacker now knowing I can defend myself (so he now picks up a stick or takes out that work knife he has in his pocket.)  I DON'T THINK SO!!  So instead Insert the left handsword into the Dead Space, stepping off line, and striking with both hands, left to the neck or collarbone, or even Checking at the Source, the Shoulder, while I execute a right handsword to the bicep or brachioradialis, checking the right arm.  

Just different applications for different circumstances.  If a bar, or a fireplug was behind me, then the outward check with the left handsword could help them on the way to a collision.  Hmmm.... I like that.

-Michael


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## c2kenpo (Dec 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> 
> Usually when I executed the technique, unless your opponent knows to slow down, your parry changes the vector, but does not slow the speed of the attack.  Sometimes I got the kicks, sometimes not.  I then had to go through the most dangerous phase of any technique, the beginning, and reengage with possibly the attacker now knowing I can defend myself (so he now picks up a stick or takes out that work knife he has in his pocket.)  I DON'T THINK SO!!  So instead Insert the left handsword into the Dead Space, stepping off line, and striking with both hands, left to the neck or collarbone, or even Checking at the Source, the Shoulder, while I execute a right handsword to the bicep or brachioradialis, checking the right arm.
> 
> -Michael [/B]



Love that double striking idea. My knowledge of Charging Ram was after the revision. The reason for not being in the twist stance and stepping up the circle off was simply getting off the direct line of attack. By stepping off line you can get neutral and keep your posture while excecuting the left and right strikes to the collarbone and the biceps. The biggest advantage is looking at the flow of energy, even by stepping off line look at your opponents momentum and see how easy it would be to simply "throw" your opponent by continuing and modifying his momentum (Akido principles if you will). Every time I stayed in a twist or transitionsl stance if my timing was off even a little I would be on the ground in a real fight.

Just another thought was that the idea of this idiot charging you was because you were already in a fight and neutral already, if my feet were in a ready stance (normal standing) I might go to Striking Serpents Head instead and let him run into my right heel palm.

Just my thoughts....
Expand, Enumciate, Enlighten
Dave


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## kenpo3631 (Dec 16, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KENPOJOE _
> *Hi Folks!
> Thought i'd go into a technical aspect of technique evolution.
> When I originally learned "Charging Ram" I was taught that from a natural stance, execute a left outward downward parry to the outside of my opponent's left arm at or above the elbow to close off the centerline as i stepped with my left foot into a right front twist stance facing 9 o'clock with my right hand cocked to chop.
> ...



Feliz Navidad! I am home for the holidays! 
I too originally learned it that way. After working with my current instructor and working the technique I saw a few things. First the twist stance is EXTREMELY unstable for use in this technique. If a man is charging you trying to tackle you I DO NOT want to shorten my base. In reference to the "revision" I noticed to that by doing a right outward downward diagonal parry to the inside of your opponent's left arm below the elbow as you execute a left outward heel palm to opponent's left temple/face keeps on the inside of your opponents arm... you DID NOT get out of the way, say buh-bye to the kicks, etc... might as well not even practice Charging Ram and go straight to Broken Ram. 

I feel stepping to 3 with the left into a right nuetral bow as you execute the left downward outward parry as you settle into your stance and chop his cervicle spine is choice. 

Asta la pasta kids:asian:


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