# Disrespectful Students



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Sep 18, 2003)

Have any instructors out there had a student cuss you out and challenge you in the middle of class/belt exam?

That happened to myself and a fellow instructor in the middle of a belt exam.  We told the student that he needed to show us more speed, power and intensity several times and then he just lost it and started cussing and telling us he could kick our A**'S.  

It took every bit of self control  and restraint that we had not to ripe his dam head off.  We kicked him out of the school right then and there and told him he could never return.

Has this ever happened to anyone else?  If not what would your reaction be to this student?  By the way he was only 17yrs old


----------



## TheEdge883 (Sep 18, 2003)

Where I study, he wouldn't be allowed back in either. Except before he left, he would be forced to prove his theory that he could kick our collective a**es (not in front of the class or test of course).


----------



## Shiatsu (Sep 18, 2003)

Never seen it happen, however that is good self control on your part.  I would have done the same, however if they kept pesisting.  Sometimes lessons need to be taught.:asian:


----------



## Nightingale (Sep 19, 2003)

well.... people usually don't just lose it for no reason...

what else was going on?  how much pressure was he under for the grading?


----------



## Eggman (Sep 19, 2003)

it happened to a female black belt in our school by a male brown belt.  Lucky for him i was not present because even though her patience saved him a butt whooping, i would not have tolerated that instance.  For legality sake, protective gear  would be worn.  HeHeHe!!!!!!


----------



## oldnewbie (Sep 19, 2003)

Sounds like it was a great teaching moment, (for the other students) a bad examples can be a good lesson.

I agree with a previous post though, what was going on behind the scenes, (other than teenage testosternone (sp?)


----------



## MountainSage (Sep 19, 2003)

I am not an instructor, yet I'm with nightingale on this issue.  There is more to this situation than is being told.  A student is a reflection of those that instructed him.  Respect is earned to demand is one to live by.


Mountainsage


----------



## Michael Billings (Sep 19, 2003)

Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you. 

 Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.

 There are lots of father transference issues at that age, even when the instructor is only a few years older. A disapproving Dad can cause bad feelings, and it is ok to get mad at one ... but not the other. I did a study on this between 1st and 2nd Black for a thesis and I was in grad. school at the time, so it was pretty interesting, and gave me some insights as to why I had such intense feeling, anger, approval seeking, etc. toward my teacher. 

 Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student. 

 Yours in Kenpo,
 -Michael Billings


----------



## LoneWolfandCub (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you.
> 
> Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.
> ...



Well said Sir! Kudos to you! I agree :asian:


----------



## jeffkyle (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by LoneWolfandCub _
> *Well said Sir! Kudos to you! I agree :asian: *



Ditto!


----------



## MisterMike (Sep 19, 2003)

Agreed. You just can't do that in this day and age.

But on a related note, hasn't Mr. Parker himself tossed people out. Perhaps they weren;t students, but just people coming in looking for a "lesson"?

I've met teachers who have literally thrown people OUT THE WINDOW, but that was a long time ago.

I think if you truely feel threatened for your safety or personal property or the safety of others, you should be able to defend yourself.

Cheers!


----------



## jeffkyle (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *Agreed. You just can't do that in this day and age.
> 
> But on a related note, hasn't Mr. Parker himself tossed people out. Perhaps they weren;t students, but just people coming in looking for a "lesson"?
> ...



I am sure there comes a time in every studio where a student does something that requires them to be dismissed from the studio permanently.  
30 years ago I am sure there were tons of people being "literally thrown out".  Was it right then?  Was gunfighting back in the 1800s right?  Maybe yes, at the time, maybe no.  But it happened.  We should just learn from it as necessary and not recreate those situations again if possible.
  :asian:


----------



## MisterMike (Sep 19, 2003)

> We should just learn from it as necessary and not recreate those situations again if possible.



Yes, We shouldn't, but it seems other people may still do so.

Is it right? Maybe not in the PC crowd. I guess it comes down to your values.


----------



## Ender (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *Tough situation!!! I have never heard of anything like this. What belt was he testing for, and how long had he been in the school? Had he had any other training? The reason I am asking is to try to get some insight into why he went off. We all know 17 is a pretty violatile age, but something precipitated it, and it did not necessarily have anything to do with you.
> 
> Given the situation you did the exact right thing. If he wants to follow-up, or you do, just to get resolution (closure) or to find out where the hell that came from, give it some time and give him a follow up call. He may hang up ... I would expect this, but if not you may find out what went on with him, and if you or the other instructor in any way, even inadvertently, contributed to the situation ... not that his behavior was acceptable, whatever the reason.
> ...





very well thought out. I would want to react in this manner.

 But in the moment it might be difficult to gather your thoughts and do this. something to think about.


----------



## Ender (Sep 19, 2003)

oops..i meant to quote Mr Billings..sigh


----------



## Ender (Sep 19, 2003)

oh!..I did..I think i need a nap...


----------



## Nightingale (Sep 19, 2003)

:rofl: :roflmao:

opcorn:


----------



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Sep 19, 2003)

I found out that he was previous removed from our school several years ago due to his involvment with local gangs.  We allowed him back as a second chance but even though he may not be in the gangs the gangs still seem to be in him.

Keep up all the replies


----------



## Marcus Buonfiglio (Sep 19, 2003)

Those who are stating they would "make him prove it", gear or no gear, are dropping down to his level, and I find it totally inappropriate as a helpful response. So you are a Black Belt and can beat up a 17 year old kid. And what part of that would you be proud of? I can certainly understand you getting an adrenaline dump and "wanting" to punch his lights out, but hopefully that is a fantasy ... and what separates the Martial Artist from the brawler, the Teacher from the Student. 

Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings [/B][/QUOTE] 

Well said Mr. Billings. Rare is the individual that knows the complexity of being the Martial Artist, the Teacher and the perpetual student. You are one of those individuals. Salute

Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation


----------



## MA-Caver (Sep 19, 2003)

Agreed with what everyone has said that you handled the situation as well as you could and it ended without any further altercation. 
Yet I too am curious as to the details of the event for curiosity's sake. You did nothing wrong mind you because the student was being belligerent (and stupid, thinking that he could challenge everyone there). 
There are two sides to every story... though we will probably not hear from the student which will probably be an overblown version of the events. 
The situation obviously is unique because of the replies you've gotten to your orignal post.  Kudos from me as well on how you handled the situation.

So take a moment and tell us. 

Also kudos to Marcus for his post. It is indeed a fine line and that which seperates us from lower life forms known as bullies and jerks. 

Ralph


----------



## Cruentus (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Atlanta-Kenpo _
> *Have any instructors out there had a student cuss you out and challenge you in the middle of class/belt exam?
> 
> That happened to myself and a fellow instructor in the middle of a belt exam.  We told the student that he needed to show us more speed, power and intensity several times and then he just lost it and started cussing and telling us he could kick our A**'S.
> ...



In the combative Martial Art world you get every walk on the planet, like any martial art, but you often get guys who walk around and try to act military, when they're not, and who throw their egos around. If I partner with these people, and they aren't being "good partners," I just make sure the technique I am doing is working, and I make sure that they "feel" that it does. 

I've seen it at seminars and such before, the ego problems. Kicking a student out after he displayed uncontrolled violence like that during a test was the right thing to do. 

I have seen occasions during an instructional demo where the Uke who was just picked out from the crowd would get egotistical and try to take the instructors head off (or something like that). When this occurs, there is only one answer: bring him down hard!

Often when I am teaching my class, or teaching a seminar, I have people who "nicely" try to challange what I am doing. They aren't trying to take my head off, but they want to try to somehow prove that they have the answer or counter to what I am teaching. I get this alot because I am fairly young for an instructor; and many older martial artists have a hard time curbing their ego's when they are around me to learn something, even though I would never behave in that manner around them if they were teaching. I usually welcome this, though, so I can show them their faults, or show them what I would do if they tried that counter attack. If they do something that I haven't seen, then I learned something new. This usually eliminates any doubt to the students. If they are getting annoying and just won't let it go, even when they're getting smoked, then I try to throw some humor into the situation.

Example:

I was teaching at this seminar, and the environment was very relaxed. There were other instructors there, so I had only a small group. I had this one guy who kept inturupting me to tell me how his system of Filipino Martial Arts would handle the situation, while I was attempting to teach the group. This was annoying at best, and disrespectful to the students who paid good money to learn (and not from him). So he went into his rendition of how to do a particular disarm (we had sticks), one that I had just finished explaining about how the technique wouldn't work against a trained stick fighter. So, I told him to try it on me. He did, and he ended up with his own stick slamming against his collar bone, and then tied up while I posed a strike to his knee and head with my eskrima stick. He was very flustered to say the least. So, I used him as a Uke for the rest of the session. He would often try to get "one more hit" in while I was talking and demoing, or he'd try to sneak some other technique in by suprise. One time I just tied him up with both mine and his stick; letting go of my stick to talk to the group, leaving him with both stikes in hand, and his hands ties up (hard to explain online, but it was humorus). Another time, he tryed to get in an extra strike while I was talking, so I blocked, grabbed his stick, and said, "Hey, can I see that for a minute?" He let go, and I said "Ha, see now you are disarmed! Your also grounded....I'll give you your stick back when you can behave!" The group, including my new Uke, all got a laugh. It lightened things up a bit, but at the same time the students had no doubts about the effectiveness of what they were learning, and the "Uke" was humbled a bit.

O.K....enough of my stupid stories! Anyone else?


----------



## Michael Billings (Sep 19, 2003)

I have one about the 230 lb body builder, ex- Airborn Ranger, professional football player (and I am not exaggerating).

But that is off the topic: all instructors are "challenged" at some point by students either testing you, themselves, or the system.  How you respond demonstates the quality of your character and knowledge.  

Thanks for all the kind words ya'll.  I am blushing.  I just told it like it was!

-MB


----------



## Atlanta-Kenpo (Sep 19, 2003)

After I had a chance to sit back and look at that sitituation I had realize just how much I have grown as a black belt.  In my past I have never turned down a challenge and I love to crash and bang when training.  However, upon reviewing the matter even further, myself and my fellow instructor were the ones that were tested and we passed with flying colors.

Thank you all for you kind remarks.  They are warmly welcomed


----------



## WhiteTiger (Sep 20, 2003)

Not exactlly, I had a young student who I had warrened twice during a sparring match about excessive contact.  After the third time I grabbed the boy by the shoulder and told him he could sit out the rest of class.  A few minutes later the father walked out onto the floor and proceeded to threaten me with an A** kicking if I ever touched his son again.  As it was not my school I chose to ignore the threat.  For that reason and others I do not and will not teach kids.


----------



## MountainSage (Sep 20, 2003)

I want to hear about the 230 lbs. body builder, ex-ranger, football player.  That got to be an interesting situation.

Mountainsage


----------



## Ceicei (Sep 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *I have one about the 230 lb body builder, ex- Airborn Ranger, professional football player (and I am not exaggerating).
> 
> But that is off the topic...
> ...



If your story is about someone who is being disrespectful, then it can be considered on topic.  Tell away... you have a captive audience.  We all could learn something.

opcorn: 

- Ceicei


----------



## Michael Billings (Sep 21, 2003)

Not to his knowledge.

He had been with me a couple of months - and was extemely talanted, strong, and increadibly fast.  In the course of some no-gear, medium speed flow sparring, he decides to up the ante and starts grappling and we of course go to the ground, mainly because he was so strong and I could not stop him without hurting him ... besides, it was fun.  Problem, have you ever met those students who are double jointed, or have no pressure points the way "normal" people do (they do, you just have to position them such that they are accessable, which usually entails some balance disruption, or "streching" them to open up the nerve points .... and I refuse to call this SL-4 because I have never had a lesson or met Ron Chapel, but it is part of the Art)?  This guy was one big muscle, with arms almost as big as my lower thigh.  I tried numerous times for pressure points, and without lots of work, they just were not there, so I had to go for structural immobilizations.  He did have a theshold for pain compliance using Contact Manipulations, but you really had to set it up because of the sheer muscle mass.  Unless you "distracted" the muscle or mind, he could resist most common manipulations.

Anyway, to make a long story short, at one point he decided he had to know how we would stack up against each other.  I think it had something to do with his ego and "learning" from someone he thought he could "TAKE".  In the midst of a sparring session, he picks up the pace then grapples, we are rolling around for what seems like an hour, but probably was only a couple or few minutes, trading holds, as I tried to find an out, and a submission.  He ends up standing up and stacking me on my neck which cut off the airway.  

This did not seem like I "won" until a few minutes later, when In talking about it afterwards with him as he and and the class discussed it, they saw, and he felt:

Simultaineously -
1) My hand under his cup;
2) While my other hand was in his eyes, then throat (with a "good" choke, ie. he could not breath which paniced him)
3) As my right heel smashed his kidneys with hooks, alternating with checks to his body.

In the meantime, he was trying for an ankle lock on the other leg.

Lots of other "strikes" in there that he felt and the class saw (every one had stopped and was watching), but it boiled down to the statement he made later to everyone.  He could have beat me, but I could have "killed" him had it been a real fight.  *He came from a world of "real" fights .. this Martial Arts formal training was new to him.  Grew up tough, and just got tougher.*  I agreed with him, but I take nothing for granted ever.  No matter how good you get:

1.  There is always someone better than you; and
2.  Stuff (or another "S" word) happens, and you cannot assume because you have trained over 30 years (yes, that's me), in a number of styles over the years, that you are invulnerable, invincible, or can walk on water. 

You cannot let your ego get the best of you, no matter how many trophies you have won, no matter how many fights you have won, and no matter how big or tough you think you are.  "Stuff" happens, you can slip and fall, your prime, A-!, best technique of all time does not work (you tore a muscle as you tried to initiate your defense, you stepped in a hole, or backed into a curb at night, his friends grabbed your arm, etc.)

Besides, they may pull a gun, knife, knives, mace, or stun gun.  They may be a 17th degree grand pubah in the Grand Ultimate Generic Karate School, or a Colonel in Ashida Kim's stuff.  You just never know until you are there.  All you can do is train, keep the faith, and mature in the Art, whichever Art you chose.  Then get outside your box.  Yes, Muay Thai kickboxers come to my sparring class, and are welcome, (for controlled training rounds only), as are boxers,Shen Chuan, Taekwondo, JKD or any other system you can name, including BJJ guys.  It is not to test ourselves, but to learn about other Arts and what we may face.  *Then apply the logic of Kenpo to "solving" the equation.* 

In this case, the guy had a huge skill set that was survival oriented, but he focused on single targets ... this is just a matter of sophistication and maturity in the Art.  Don't get me wrong, he survived many a fight, with the limited repitoire he had. He was with me several years before moving on.  He is plain seriously dangerous now.   But that is another story.

He never saw this as "disrespectful", but my other students were freaking out.  They thought I would be pissed and kick him out.  I never even considered this.  There were lots of other challenges over the years, but none quite as directly physical, and unexpected at this.  I do not think he planned it, but he just had to know.  Most people would see this as disrespectful, no warning, no idea if this was "ok" in my school, etc.  But I learned from it, as did he.  It was "humbling" for him, which was probably good.  And a wakeup call for me, he offered new challenges in terms of Contact Manupulations, Control, and Maintenence, that I really learned from over the years.

-MB

Yes, I re-edited for spelling and a little clarification.


----------



## stickarts (Sep 21, 2003)

Fortunately, so far in my experience, bad attitudes are discovered before the student ever got placed on a test so it is dealt with early on.
on rare occaisions when the student had an attitude in class, i would politely ask him / her to come speak with me in the office. we would then find out what the problem is.
However rude they may be, i think it is important for the instructor to be the one to set the better example to the class.
The only students i kicked out of class were students that were uncontrolled in sparring.
the only people kicked out of the school have actually been parents of students whose bevavior became intolerable!
This has been rare though, perhaps 2 times in 10 years.


----------



## kevin kilroe (Sep 21, 2003)

after several requests to show more intensity while demonstrating his basics and giving him a physical demonstration of what i wanted to see, he kept working at tai chi speed. i let him know that he still wasnt showing what i wanted to see in atone of voice that let him know i was getting aggravated with his not following directions. at this point he got very belligerent, raising his voice saying "what are you talking about?" while puffing up his chest and taking on a very arrogant demeanor. that was when he was told to please leave the room. his reply was f*** you, motherf***** , you little b**** while flipping us the bird. he then took his belt off and said "you want to start something?" he was again told to leave which he finally did. his father was on the other side of the glass and said he did not condone his sons behavior at which time they both left. it was the owner of the school who made the final decision to ban him from returning. the thought of accepting his challenge never entered my mind although it did cause a sharp rise in blood pressure and pulse rate. the total lack of respect he exhibited goes against one of the main tenets of the martial arts, RESPECT.


----------



## Brother John (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kevin kilroe _
> *after several requests to show more intensity while demonstrating his basics and giving him a physical demonstration of what i wanted to see, he kept working at tai chi speed. i let him know that he still wasnt showing what i wanted to see in atone of voice that let him know i was getting aggravated with his not following directions. at this point he got very belligerent, raising his voice saying "what are you talking about?" while puffing up his chest and taking on a very arrogant demeanor. that was when he was told to please leave the room. his reply was f*** you, motherf***** , you little b**** while flipping us the bird. he then took his belt off and said "you want to start something?" he was again told to leave which he finally did. his father was on the other side of the glass and said he did not condone his sons behavior at which time they both left. it was the owner of the school who made the final decision to ban him from returning. the thought of accepting his challenge never entered my mind although it did cause a sharp rise in blood pressure and pulse rate. the total lack of respect he exhibited goes against one of the main tenets of the martial arts, RESPECT. *


What would you do IF he returned apologizing, willing to apologize in public and asking for your forgiveness???

Your Brother
John


----------



## Michael Billings (Sep 21, 2003)

Remember, this kid had been kicked out before due to his bein a little gang banger.  It is a very subjective question ... how many chances would YOU give him?  If you gave him another, what would it be contingent on?

Personally, he would have cashed his ticket with me.  I just would not feel safe in teaching him more of an Art that could be used to hurt someone outside the school.  Not with that temper ... even though I know, and have experienced people who have mastered worse through their study of the Art.  

If it was something overwhelmingly persuasive, say a relative died that day and he was horribly upset, I may consider letting him back in, after a significant suspension, letter explaining his actions, apology to the fellow instructor, and then it would be a Probationary admittance.  I too have had people leave, due to excessive aggression sparring.  This has only been after talking to them several times, placing them on probation, etc.  I have done it twice since 1989.  Not too bad a record.  You do usually catch them before a test - or they self-select themselves out.

It is something for all instructors to think about ... How would YOU deal with it?

-MB


----------



## kevin kilroe (Sep 21, 2003)

I would give him another chance but ultimately that would be up to the studio owner


----------



## kevin kilroe (Sep 21, 2003)

the more  i think about it, he already had a second chance, so forget my last post. i think everyone deserves a second chance, but he wasted his.


----------



## Brother John (Sep 21, 2003)

Those who have second chances shouldn't squander them!!!
His final lesson?
Take care to do the right thing the First time.

Your Bro.
John


----------



## Doc (Sep 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Atlanta-Kenpo _
> *Have any instructors out there had a student cuss you out and challenge you in the middle of class/belt exam?
> 
> That happened to myself and a fellow instructor in the middle of a belt exam.  We told the student that he needed to show us more speed, power and intensity several times and then he just lost it and started cussing and telling us he could kick our A**'S.
> ...



Nope. But then I only accept the mature after a background check. "No kids or Klowns." The quickest way to be rejected is to ask in an interview, "How long does it take the average guy to make black belt?" My answer is always the same. "The average guy can't study here."


----------



## Seig (Sep 22, 2003)

Fortunately,
I have not had to deal with that specific issue.  I have had a few try to challenge my position as Top Dog a few times.  One as recently as about three weeks ago.  The young man in question is a football player with an incredible physique.  His father is a retired marine colonel.  The young man is a yellow belt under me and is never blatantly disrespectfull.  He doeshowever try to "prove" himself against the upper belts.  I am not convinced, however, that this is a conscious thought process of his.  Last time we were sparring, I sparred him as I would any talented yellow-orange belt and while I was retracting my leg, he kicked the inside of my plant leg with sufficient force to buckle my leg.  I was able to rollback to my feet before he could close the gap.  I then proceeded to use his head as a snare drum.  After class, he stated that my actions reminded him why he was the student.  He also thanked me for not using any real power as I was acting like Buddy Rich on his head.  I gave him a hug and told him to remember touse control because if we broke the other students we wouldn't have anyone left to play with.  He again apologized and all was well.  He will consciously be more aware of his control from now on.  So it is a happy story.


----------



## jeffkyle (Sep 22, 2003)

I have never had to deal with an irate student, or parent so far while teaching, or training.  
The most trouble I have had has come from upper belts (Brown and higher) and them trying to prove how they are better than me by trying to beat on me, or humilate me somehow.  Sometimes they used their rank to do it and even did it in front of an entire class.


I hope I never have to deal with a student like that...but I guess it goes with the territory.


----------



## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

HI I have never seen this happen however there are questions that should have been asked.

1. What was the students general demeanor like

2. Shouldn't his attitude etc have been picked up earlier than before a grading.

3. What stress and pressure was he under not only at the grading but outside also.

I feel that as instructors it is our duty to know our students and be able to guide and direct them to control their anger, frustration etc.

Anyone else agree or disagree?


----------



## MisterMike (Sep 24, 2003)

I agree. But it seems it is the limitation of most McStudios that they only care about the all-mighty dollar coming in.

I don't think a teacher should invade the student's privacy, but they should pick up on the personality traits/character over time well enough to tell if there is a change/problem with the student.


----------



## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MisterMike _
> *I agree. But it seems it is the limitation of most McStudios that they only care about the all-mighty dollar coming in.
> 
> I don't think a teacher should invade the student's privacy, but they should pick up on the personality traits/character over time well enough to tell if there is a change/problem with the student. *



Sorry I didn't mean that the instructors should invade the students privacy but yes they should pick up on the personaility traits over time.

I also didn't want to go down the McDojo route as I am not sure of where this occurred but I do have to agree with you they are the worst for this kind of situation.


----------



## Michael Billings (Sep 24, 2003)

It does not sound like a McDojo to me.

A 2nd chances had been given after the student had been asked to leave previously (due to gang activity).  The teacher gave him a 2nd chance in good faith.  It does not sound like a McDojo to me, nor would a McDojo instructor take the time to bring this issue to us for support.

-MB


----------



## kenposikh (Sep 24, 2003)

Thanks for your input their Mr Billings.

It sounds as though the guy just couldn't hack it


----------



## kevin kilroe (Sep 24, 2003)

Thank you Mr. Billings for clearing things up. We try very hard to get to know our students. I taught the young man in question for a good while and while he did have an underlying cockiness at times he was not disrespectful in my class ever. People should not make assumptions about a school or an instructor without knowing all the facts. I appreciate your support.

Full Salute

Kevin Kilroe


----------



## kenposikh (Sep 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by kevin kilroe _
> *Thank you Mr. Billings for clearing things up. We try very hard to get to know our students. I taught the young man in question for a good while and while he did have an underlying cockiness at times he was not disrespectful in my class ever. People should not make assumptions about a school or an instructor without knowing all the facts. I appreciate your support.
> 
> Full Salute
> ...



Dear Kevin,

I am sorry if any of my posts offended you in any way. As you can see if they are re read that I did not imply that your studio was a Mcdojo, just questioning if there were any signs prior to the event. THis has now been cleared up in my mind and therefore all I can say is that I hope I don't experience anything like this, if I did the student would certainly be ejected and refused any training as my time is precious.


----------



## kevin kilroe (Sep 25, 2003)

Kenposikh,

No offense taken. I guess you can say to a certain degree it is a Mcdojo in the sense that the owner (which isnt me) is trying to pay the bills and feed his family. Giving the people what they want isnt always the most satisfying thing but I guess its necessary. Im glad that teaching is enjoyable for me and I dont have to worry about the financial end of things. My hat goes off to the successful martial arts school owners. From what I have seen, it aint easy. I just do the best job I know how to do and hopefully instill some of the values that the martial arts have to offer people. I can show them what to do and how to do it but I cant make them do it. That part is up to them. Hopefully if push comes to shove they will be able to defend themselves or their loved ones.

Much respect,

Kevin Kilroe


----------



## kenposikh (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks Kevin,

I know what you mean teaching is such a rewarding practice for me. However the nerves don't half kick in when my kids are in front of a grading panel.

You know what I mean the week before they know everything well, the week of the grading and they can't remeber a simple basic, but on grading day they usually always perform like brilliant kenpoists and make me so proud. 

It's like being a nervous parent of 50 children you feel for all of them.


----------

