# Training log.



## Kframe (Dec 14, 2013)

Class 2.  

Today we reviewed the bowing in/bowing out ritual. After that we went through some stretching and breathing. Then we reviewed all the Kamae(postures).  The Aruki movements will take me some time to learn.   Some of the kamae are different. The bear posture was kinda cool, reminded me in a way of the old school Muay Boran stance.. 

We then reviewed the 15(16 if you include the Ki fist) fists.  Going through  all of this, practicing each one took up most of the class time for the beginner class. 

He reviewed all the material I need to work on and be decent in, before I can get promoted to 9th.

Edit to add.  Somethings im confused on.  Firstly, there are 2 jodan ukes? One is a posture that looks like the classic karate block, the other is the circular back fist that is used in some of the san shin no kata. What is the story there?   Sensei said that a lot of these stances are something we will not be holding, but transitioning through.(I understand that)  Is this just one of those transitory defensive postures?

Second question, and he explained it. Was the existence of 2 distinct Ichimonji no kamae. One is the classic one, with the weight to rear, and rear foot pointing off back and away. To provide a avenue of escape.  The one that is mainly used here is different. Its weight forward, with the rear foot pointing at a angle forward.  

Sensei said that Hiroshi Nagase Sensei was more "combative" and favored a weight forward ichimonji, it was more aggressive(I guess attack or move forward oriented) then the "defensive" classic ichimonji.   Any thoughts on this difference in stance? I can feel the difference in my legs, and how each style effects movement. One does feel defensive and one does feel aggressive.  

Can anyone give me some background on Hiroshi Nagase Sensei?  I tried a Google search but not much comes up.  

I learned that my Sensei, likes to train. A lot.  He apparently spends his off days getting trained, then comes up on class day and trains us. Its nice that he is keeping up with his training.. 

Thanks for any input guys.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 15, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Class 2.
> 
> Today we reviewed the bowing in/bowing out ritual. After that we went through some stretching and breathing. Then we reviewed all the Kamae(postures).  The Aruki movements will take me some time to learn.   Some of the kamae are different. The bear posture was kinda cool, reminded me in a way of the old school Muay Boran stance..



Hmm... "all" the kamae? That'd take a bit... I'm going to assume you mean all the ones in the Ten Chi Jin, based on your mention of the 16 strikes in a bit... there's a lot more than that, when you get into it. Oh, and I'd be wary of making any connections between similar looking postures from different arts. Hoko no Kamae isn't really like a Muay Boran stance at all, really. And, to let you know, Hoko no Kamae doesn't mean "bear" posture... that's more a nickname based on the appearance being related to the posture of a standing bear... it actually means "embracing your surroundings"... and has quite a different feel and tactical reasoning behind it. 



Kframe said:


> We then reviewed the 15(16 if you include the Ki fist) fists.  Going through  all of this, practicing each one took up most of the class time for the beginner class.
> 
> He reviewed all the material I need to work on and be decent in, before I can get promoted to 9th.



Hmm, the "ki" fist? Typically, the Hokken Juroppo (16 Treasure Fists, for want of a better translation), as listed in the Ten Chi Jin Ryaku no Maki, are: Kikaku Ken (Zu Tsuki), Shukki Ken, Fudo Ken/Nio Ken/Kongo Ken, Kiten Ken/Shuto Ken, Shitan Ken, Shako Ken/Chin Ken, Shito Ken/Boshi Ken/Yubi Ken, Shikan Ken, Koppo Ken, Happa Ken, Sokuyaku Ken/Keri, Sokki Ken/Keri, Sokugyaku Ken/Keri, Taiken, and Shizen Ken. Some of these have alternate names/applications/slight variations depending on the Ryu-ha, some are specific surfaces, some are more conceptual in their ideas, and so on. 



Kframe said:


> Edit to add.  Somethings im confused on.  Firstly, there are 2 jodan ukes? One is a posture that looks like the classic karate block, the other is the circular back fist that is used in some of the san shin no kata. What is the story there?   Sensei said that a lot of these stances are something we will not be holding, but transitioning through.(I understand that)  Is this just one of those transitory defensive postures?



There's a lot more than two... but, to keep it simple, there's a knuckle/backfist method, and there's a forearm block method. Then there's different applications and mechanics taught depending on the Ryu itself... a Gyokko Ryu Uke Nagashi is different to one from Kukishinden Ryu, and very different to Shinden Fudo Ryu or Takagi Yoshin Ryu (also different to each other, of course), and so on. "Jodan Uke" simply means "receiving (an attack) at a high level". As for the rest (transitioning), well, without seeing exactly what you were being shown, it might be a yes, it might be a no... the amount of variation that exists within the total scope of these arts means that we really don't know exactly what you've been shown....



Kframe said:


> Second question, and he explained it. Was the existence of 2 distinct Ichimonji no kamae. One is the classic one, with the weight to rear, and rear foot pointing off back and away. To provide a avenue of escape.  The one that is mainly used here is different. Its weight forward, with the rear foot pointing at a angle forward.


 
Hmm, not sure about that second one... there are certainly weight forward forms and kamae, but with the rear foot pointing/angled forward? Kinda goes against the way the footwork works, and why... As far as there being two distinct Ichimonji no Kamae, there's more than that...  



Kframe said:


> Sensei said that Hiroshi Nagase Sensei was more "combative" and favored a weight forward ichimonji, it was more aggressive(I guess attack or move forward oriented) then the "defensive" classic ichimonji.   Any thoughts on this difference in stance? I can feel the difference in my legs, and how each style effects movement. One does feel defensive and one does feel aggressive.


 
Hmm... yes, there are thoughts on it... Personally, I don't see either as either defensive or offensive... that's not really Ichimonji no Kamae (Gyokko Ryu)'s purpose...

Honestly, this is one of my issues with the way things are sometimes done in the Bujinkan... there might be a particular personality preference to do one thing or another, even when it goes against the Ryu in question teaches... 



Kframe said:


> Can anyone give me some background on Hiroshi Nagase Sensei?  I tried a Google search but not much comes up.


 
I'll let Bujinkan members answer that, if they wish... but I will say that most, if not all, of the Japanese seniors and Shihan are rather private people who don't put much of themselves out publicly. The reasoning (and I agree with them) is that, well, if you know them (personally), then the aspects of their life can mean something to you... if you don't, then why should you know? So, to get some idea of what he's like, talk to your instructor (who is a student of Nagase Sensei, yes?), or wait and develop a relationship with him yourself. 



Kframe said:


> I learned that my Sensei, likes to train. A lot.  He apparently spends his off days getting trained, then comes up on class day and trains us. Its nice that he is keeping up with his training..
> 
> Thanks for any input guys.



Cool.


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## Kframe (Dec 15, 2013)

I thought the purpose of ichimonji was to use the lead hand to keep space between you and the opponent.   The way the feet and weight are positioned will determine which directions you can more easily move. I know this from my time in MMA and boxing..    The position of the feet and weight makes moving in certain directions easier then other directions.  

Did I wander into a school teaching watered down Taijutsu?

I know that the Genbukan and jinekan have tighter QC, if they existed in a reasonable distance I would have gone there instead..


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## jks9199 (Dec 15, 2013)

I suspect that Kframe is getting or seeing the level 1 version or interpretation, and Chris is looking deeper.  And that Kframe, being on his second class, may just have misunderstood or overgeneralized a statement or explanation give, too.  

I'll second Chris's advice to be cautious about generalizing stances from one style to another.  Boxing, MMA, and Muay Thai/Muay Boran have developed stances around their particular situations, goals, and strategies.  The modern basic boxing stance, for example, is built around the modern rules of boxing (targets limited to the front and sides of the upper body, above the belt, using comparatively large, padded gloves), while an MMA stance is adjusted to deal with the wrestling, grappling, and takedowns.  The stances in the Bujinkan are developed for particular purposes and strategies in the same way...


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## Kframe (Dec 15, 2013)

Well im not going to rush to any judgments, seeing as I don't know enough about the various ryu. Maybe there is a reason that Ichimonji was altered.   He did say that they teach both, but in practice endup using the more weighted forward/rear foot pointed forward more.    He did make mention that, the classic ichimonji was the way they used to train, but as time progressed things changed.  He makes frequent reference to the way things used to be.     

I don't doubt his prowess as a martial artist, he moves like someone who is experienced and skilled. You can just see it in the smoothness of his actions compared to the green belts, or even the low level black belt that came to train on Saturday.  OF course the level of difference between the greens and the low level black belt was immense as well. 

I like to know details, so it will be a fun journey for me to discover the how's and why's of the classical ichimonji. Ill have to find my own understanding of this art anyways, and seeing as how important ichimonji is, I might as well start there..


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## Kframe (Dec 15, 2013)

I think this video will help, to understand what im seeing. 



  That animation is how I observe them doing the Ichimonji during the practice of the higher belts, and how I was taught it.   It is different then this picture, https://www.google.com/search?q=ich...fPqQGG8oC4Aw&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAQ&biw=1366&bih=605 , that I was told was the way it used to be taught. 

Hopefully that will clear up  my question.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 16, 2013)

Kframe said:


> I thought the purpose of ichimonji was to use the lead hand to keep space between you and the opponent.


 
Hmm... that's part of the reason for the lead arm... it's not the purpose of Ichimonji.... but, of course, that gets into the idea of "which Ichimonji?"... but I'm getting ahead of myself...



Kframe said:


> The way the feet and weight are positioned will determine which directions you can more easily move. I know this from my time in MMA and boxing..    The position of the feet and weight makes moving in certain directions easier then other directions.



Partially, yeah. It's also to do with weight transference into strikes/blocks/throws etc, as well as the range of said actions, and so on.... 



Kframe said:


> Did I wander into a school teaching watered down Taijutsu?



No idea.



Kframe said:


> I know that the Genbukan and jinekan have tighter QC, if they existed in a reasonable distance I would have gone there instead..



You're starting to focus on possible negatives again... forget them. If you constantly think about what could be elsewhere, you'll miss what's in front of you.



jks9199 said:


> I suspect that Kframe is getting or seeing the level 1 version or interpretation, and Chris is looking deeper.  And that Kframe, being on his second class, may just have misunderstood or overgeneralized a statement or explanation give, too.
> 
> I'll second Chris's advice to be cautious about generalizing stances from one style to another.  Boxing, MMA, and Muay Thai/Muay Boran have developed stances around their particular situations, goals, and strategies.  The modern basic boxing stance, for example, is built around the modern rules of boxing (targets limited to the front and sides of the upper body, above the belt, using comparatively large, padded gloves), while an MMA stance is adjusted to deal with the wrestling, grappling, and takedowns.  The stances in the Bujinkan are developed for particular purposes and strategies in the same way...



Yep... and, just to add to that, the older-style boxing posture (the one with the arms quite extended, with the fists turned to face your palms back towards yourself that looks so comical today) had it's own very good reasons as well... namely that boxing back then included quite a lot of aspects that weren't just punching, including throws, clinching, and more... the extended arms were to prevent the opponent getting close enough to achieve them.



Kframe said:


> Well im not going to rush to any judgments, seeing as I don't know enough about the various ryu. Maybe there is a reason that Ichimonji was altered.   He did say that they teach both, but in practice endup using the more weighted forward/rear foot pointed forward more.    He did make mention that, the classic ichimonji was the way they used to train, but as time progressed things changed.  He makes frequent reference to the way things used to be.
> 
> I don't doubt his prowess as a martial artist, he moves like someone who is experienced and skilled. You can just see it in the smoothness of his actions compared to the green belts, or even the low level black belt that came to train on Saturday.  OF course the level of difference between the greens and the low level black belt was immense as well.



Okay. 



Kframe said:


> I like to know details, so it will be a fun journey for me to discover the how's and why's of the classical ichimonji. Ill have to find my own understanding of this art anyways, and seeing as how important ichimonji is, I might as well start there..



You won't get it with any words on a forum, though. You'll get it through exposure and experience in your training, and through the descriptions and understanding of your instructor. He'll be able to see where your posture shows your understanding is off, and offer the corrections you'll need to understand it.

That said....



Kframe said:


> I think this video will help, to understand what im seeing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right. That form of Ichimonji is from Togakure Ryu, and is a minor kamae found there. It's actually more like Koto Ryu's Seigan no Kamae in form (but not attitude), and the better one to understand it properly is the longer, deeper form in the picture. To make that more "aggressive" is to miss the point of the kamae's reasoning in the ryu itself... but that can be fine in the context of Budo Taijutsu, where the ryu's individual reasoning takes a definite back seat. 

Interestingly enough, although it's not the form that Ichimonji takes in Gyokko Ryu, where it's most prominent usage comes from (in the Kihon Happo etc), it was what was presented as being "the" Ichimonji no Kamae by Hayes when he first came back from Japan. Gyokko Ryu's Ichimonji is quite different in tactical application and strategic mindset, and is seen here at about 2:37 - 






For the most part, that's what most will think of when you mention "Ichimonji no Kamae"... as I said, far more than just two forms of it... Koto Ryu has a form, as well as Gyokko Ryu's and Togakure Ryu's (all different, although sharing a number of similarities)... then there's the forms of Hira Ichimonji as well... both unarmed and armed with various weapons....


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## Kframe (Dec 21, 2013)

Day three. Last day of the year for training.  

Today we had Sampai Tim teaching class.  The other white belt and the green belt came as well.  We bowed in and he did explain the formality that some teachers like. 

After that we did the rolls.  We did the forward and side rolls,  the back roll and on other rolling drill involving rolling in a few directions. Forward and Left.  As was expected I was unable to do the Goho kaiten.(backwards roll). After class, I asked for advice and he gave some, but was honest in that my gut was what was holding me back as I was unable to bring my legs in as far as they need to be. He said they will be able to modify the things we do that involve the back roll, but that until im fit enough to do it, i wont get thrown as hard that direction.   I asked how long it would be before my inability to back roll, would interfere with my development. He said that its not a big deal, that they don't really start beating you up till 1st dan. The comment was said tongue in cheek, but i get the gist of what he was saying.  

This gives me more motiviation as im half way to my 180lbs weight lost goal. I want to experience the full art, not some modified for a beached whale version of it. (talking about my self, i mean no offense to any other people of girth reading this)

More on the 3 basic sword evasion drills we did..  This was my first time actually doing the rolls from a standing position. Nearly all of the rolls we did were used, except the back roll.   It was a nice shock to see that i was able to do the rolls from standing. In a decidedly slow and crude way but still i was able to do them. It wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as i thought it would be.. 

I did get some additional correction on the side roll.  I tried to "launch" my self and while i did in fact roll, i landed with a audible thud on the tatami.  He Said that is to be avoided as it would be bad for my health if done on a non padded surface.  I feel like a big log in a forest rolling, when i do the side roll.  

After that we did the various Aruki tsuki drills, both forward and backward. This is going to require much home practice. Forward is easier then backwards.  I wonder if these drills are one of those directly combat applicable drills. They contain a parry, and a stop sign check, as well as a movement that can either be offensive or defensive.(based on my feeling of it, it feels like a jodan uke, but doesn't move in a circular path, but more like a back fist, side to side)  

We did the punching drill in both directions. Step forward with rear foot, fore foot slides back, parry with the left hand, punch with the right, repeated on the left side as well. Then the same thing backwards.. 

Then we worked on zenpo geri. I put much time into this at home and i feel i did good with this kick.  Though i feel i need to try to not go as high and risk my own kamae due to my flexability or lack there off.

We finished with Oni Kudakai. Had a minor discussion about the similarities and differences between the MMA versions and this version. Was a good discussion.

After that we bowed out and my class was finished. 

Edit to add. Had a great discussion after class. I we talked about the stark differences from a combat martial art, and mma. I told them that the feel, from just the few class's I have done, definitely feels different.  I cant really explain it, but from the drills and movements I have practiced,  it "feels"  different. We had a lovely discussion on the differences of the feel and the usage of both arts. 

My home practice is helping, i need to start working on other aspects and improve them. I spent a inordinate amount of time on a few things.

Looking forward to our Christmas get together..


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## jks9199 (Dec 21, 2013)

Kframe said:


> I spent a inordinate amount of time on a few things.



That's kind of normal as a beginner...  

(By the way, it's spelled _sempai_ when transferred into the English alphabet commonly...)


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## Kframe (Dec 21, 2013)

Well I found that I was nearly obsessed with learning zenpo geri. The front kick in this art is very different then what im used to in MMA. I was taught a muay thai teep and a generic "karate style" front snap kick.  They don't like the muay thai style teep, because they feel it puts the kicker off balance, and in armor and pack that is death.(explanation as I was given it)  So being that I stank so bad at it, practicing it made up ALOT of my home practice. 

Right now, I need to spend my home time on the punching drills and the Aruki tsuki drills, as I stink on ice badly.


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## Hatsie (Dec 22, 2013)

Kframe said:


> This gives me more motiviation as im half way to my 180lbs weight lost goal. I want to experience the full art, not some modified for a beached whale version of it. (talking about my self, i mean no offense to any other people of girth reading this)


98 % of bujinkaners cringe and head to the fridge for comfort feeding!

   Well done on your personal goals though, and glad your enjoying the training.

   The backwards roll is a bit of a tough nut to crack though, it did take me a fair while to do a reasonable approximation of it   I think it's because the 'line' you roll through ( imaginary linear contact point your body touches ground, if you follow me) has to be quite precise, or you'll do a sort of horrible side flop.  You'll get it!

the 'checking block' isn't likely a block at all, as is usually the case, likely just a 'cover', done after ( split second) you evade, and as you enter.   In the bujinkan you always want 'something' between you and the opponent, be that a weapon,someone else  or in this case your forearm.   Don't focus too much on it as it will likely change with your instructors mood or whats coming out of Japan/ yearly theme. Ichi monji variants were popular for a while.

Good luck


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## Kframe (Dec 22, 2013)

Hatsie are you talking about the weird Parry+stop sign block I am doing with the aruki tsuki drills or the weird back fist thingy?


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## Rokuta (Dec 22, 2013)

Hey Kframe,

Koho Kaiten was very hard for me when I began, yet Tachi Nagare was easier. :/ Go figure. I started at 230 and am in the 190s now, so I can appreciate the sentiment of feeling like a beached whale while trying to execute any of the rolls. It gets easier the longer you go on. You'll be amazed how much your taisubaki can improve in a short time. Looking forward to hearing more about your progress.


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## Kframe (Dec 23, 2013)

Addendum to Day three log. 

I didn't think to include this in it, but figured Id mention it. During our Oni Kudakai drill, I got a correction for something that was totally shocking for me. I was told to not help uke up after he is tossed.(or taken down in any way, I had been helping up my partner after each takedown)  I was told it develops bad habits for self defense.  I was shocked by this, as every were I have trained, helping up your training partner was rule number one.  He also said that we don't always release immediately from taps. He wants us to make sure the situation is safe for us to do so.(either our attacker is dispatched or we have subdued them some how)  This was also shocking for me as the rule to respect the tap was paramount everywere else..  

I understand what they are saying but I felt really disrespectful and like a douche bag for not helping up my training partner. Not respecting taps is gonna feel odd as hell to.


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## jks9199 (Dec 23, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Addendum to Day three log.
> 
> I didn't think to include this in it, but figured Id mention it. During our Oni Kudakai drill, I got a correction for something that was totally shocking for me. I was told to not help uke up after he is tossed.(or taken down in any way, I had been helping up my partner after each takedown)  I was told it develops bad habits for self defense.  I was shocked by this, as every were I have trained, helping up your training partner was rule number one.  He also said that we don't always release immediately from taps. He wants us to make sure the situation is safe for us to do so.(either our attacker is dispatched or we have subdued them some how)  This was also shocking for me as the rule to respect the tap was paramount everywere else..
> 
> I understand what they are saying but I felt really disrespectful and like a douche bag for not helping up my training partner. Not respecting taps is gonna feel odd as hell to.



That's a very legitimate concern.  There's a story of a cop who practiced gun disarms extensively, and got so good that he could really rely on his disarm.  One day, a robber approaches and points a gun at him.  Oh, boy!  Lickety split -- he's taken the gun away from the bad guy.  And, just like he'd done thousands of times in training and practice -- he hands the gun back to the rather stunned robber.  Fortunately, the disarm worked just as fast the second time... but it really could have ended tragically.

I'm not so sure what you're saying about the tap though; you might want to get some more clarification on that before you hold someone past a tap.


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## Kframe (Dec 24, 2013)

He did say that with regards to taps, that he didn't want us to just release it immediately.  Wants us to make sure the situation is resolved first.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 24, 2013)

Hi Kframe,

To explain about not necessarily immediately releasing from a tapping a bit more, you need to realize that the reason for a tap in our systems is actually quite different to that found in something like MMA or BJJ. In those arts, tapping is an indication that you can't escape, it's quite literally a submission to the opponents technique. You tap only when there's no other option. This is the way things work in a competitive system, but not in a skill-training methodology. For us, tapping is a feedback loop... it's a way of telling you that you've applied the action effectively (it's working the way it's meant to, it's tight, and is effecting you the way it's meant to, such as locking up various or multiple joints, immobilizing you on the ground, etc). Commonly, tapping happens before damage, when discomfort/pain is achieved (depending on the receivers level, of course). As a result, tapping means "yeah, that's it". You don't continue to crank things once their applied to a tap, but by the same token, you don't just let go, either.

So why don't you just let go? Well, it's the same reason you don't help up your partner... or hand them back their weapon.... in kata, the opponent is there, in a real way, to try to kill you (depending on the kata, of course). Don't give them more of a chance than they already have. A fundamental aspect of kata practice in Koryu (far from consistently found in the Bujinkan, though) is the concept of Zanshin. This literally means "lingering mind", and refers to a form of awareness after the action... and ensures that, even after the "fight", you don't drop your guard and give the opponent another chance to attack. Different systems deal with this differently (zanshin in Koto Ryu is different to zanshin in Takagi Yoshin Ryu, which is different to the way it's expressed in Shinden Fudo Ryu Dakentaijutsu [interestingly, different again for SFR Jutaijutsu...], and so on), but the core concept is the same. On the same topic, the 16th DaiShihan of Sosuishi Ryu was quoted as saying that "kata should be done with an air of distrust"....

With all that said, I don't want to appear to discourage you from sharing here, but I might ask if you've asked your instructor if he minds having his class methods, structure, and design put out publicly like this... especially when it opens it up for potential criticism, either through a lack of experience on your part, or misunderstanding on behalf of those who aren't familiar with the arts in question. If he's fine with it, all good. If you haven't asked, I would (for instance, if I came across one of my guys giving blow-by-blow accounts of my classes, they'd be talked to pretty quickly, and it would be suggested [potentially not that subtly] that it isn't really what I'd like to have happen...).


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## Kframe (Dec 24, 2013)

I was using this thread as way to document a newbs journey through this art for other newbs and non newbs to read. I don't know why this would cuase any consternation. Ill ask, however I don't see it as a problem.  If your offering quality training then there is no need to hide anything.

How ever. Seeing as I don't have explicit permission to post what amounts to a blog of my experiences ill discontinue it. 
I guess the biggest reason I had for posting in this section just went up in flames. 

Why is it that mma coachs don't give to flying craps about this kind of training log, yet tma'ists do?


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## Chris Parker (Dec 25, 2013)

This isn't MMA. There's a different mentality. Some of the Ryu have specific rules about what can or cannot be shared, for example. Additionally, with the freedom found in the Bujinkan, each class is more a reflection of the teacher than of the art, in a very real way, so you're exposing your teacher and their values/beliefs/perceptions in a way you might not realise. The class structure he chooses is the class structure he chooses, not the same as anywhere else. It is, in a sense, his intellectual property. And, honestly, I wouldn't be too concerned that what he's offering isn't quality, I'd be more concerned with the way he's being presented publically, which might be rather inaccurate, due to, as mentioned, your own lack of experience. You're three classes in, really, and almost every post has some kind of "I don't get it, why is this this way?" question... which might be read as your teacher not being able to explain things well (as an example... there are other things).

I would also state that there is a real difference between what is shown publically and what is shown more privately... I will happily give a range of aspects of my classes to the public forum, but it's only a small percentage of what is seen in my classes themselves. I have no reason to offer my own work to others... for a variety of reasons.

But I will restate for emphasis that I didn't want to discourage your sharing, just to ensure you're not putting your foot in anything with your new teacher. Honestly, I'd run it by them first... they'll likely say it's fine, especially at such and early (and basic) level. Just check first. Kind of a golden rule in Japanese arts there....


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## Kframe (Dec 25, 2013)

Point taken.


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## jks9199 (Dec 25, 2013)

Chris has made a good point about being careful about what you share and how you share it.  I don't know who your teacher is, or their ethnicity.  You might want to recall that if they are ethnically Japanese, or really steeped in the culture -- they may not like to say no.  Make sure you understand their answer and opinion.  I don't teach within the Bujinkan or any other form of Japanese art, but you might notice I rarely go into details about my style.  We've been advised that we should use a great deal of care in what we post about our art -- so I do so.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 25, 2013)

Getting up yourself is good for you own training after a takedown.  It will definitely make your legs like iron after lots and lots of takedowns and then getting back up!


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## Chris Parker (Dec 26, 2013)

Not quite the point that was being made, but sure. Depending on how you get up, of course.


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## Kframe (Dec 26, 2013)

Chris trying to PM you but you box is full lol.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 26, 2013)

Yeah.... sorry about that. There's a few I need to reply to, but I'll clear some room now. Give it 5 minutes for me to make a cull...


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## Kframe (Dec 29, 2013)

Personal training log. 

I have been working on a number of things, during my personal time away from school.(done for the year, will be back end of next week)   I have been doing the sanshin no kata, though I am struggling a little with the last one. More due to my size and poor balance then anything else.   Also I have have been spending a lot of time walking through the various aruki tsuki drills we have.  They are very difficult for me, and I am putting a lot of time in.. 

The main reason I have posted this Personal log today is that I am somewhat closer to my goal of doing the backwards roll..  I very nearly had it today, had to stop as I nearly took out a leg of my daughters bed and it was her bed time. (her room is large and spacious, was practicing there. )  I think with some more time on my own ill be able to do it a lot more consistently.  

I need to buy some tatami mats, as I need a softer place to learn my rolls at home. Doing them on hard flooring, as  a newb at least is painfull on my knees.(I do them from kneeling)   I do need to find a way to condition the skin on the tops of my knees, will be further researching this.. 

What I have found odd is that, the side roll is so much easier to do. I am struggling a bit with my front roll, as I consistently screw up the angle of my shoulder and end up in a very bad side roll. 

I have only rolled from standing one time, and that was during class. I  will not attempt it, until I get more practice time, doing it under supervision and after I get better at doing them at home kneeling. 

Future goals include getting the fixtures to hang my heavy bag at my new home, and to get a good practice 3foot dowel rod so I can work on the three hanbo techniques that sensei wants all beginners to know. 

Please, note, this is a personal log, not a official school day log. just a record of my personal home training.


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## Chris Parker (Dec 30, 2013)

Kframe said:


> Personal training log.
> 
> I have been working on a number of things, during my personal time away from school.(done for the year, will be back end of next week)   I have been doing the sanshin no kata, though I am struggling a little with the last one. More due to my size and poor balance then anything else.   Also I have have been spending a lot of time walking through the various aruki tsuki drills we have.  They are very difficult for me, and I am putting a lot of time in..



Bend your support knee a little more for better balance in Ku no Kata... and try to get the tsuki as smooth as possible, with each smaller part of your movement moving naturally into the next. It gets smoother with time and practice, and, as it does, it gets faster, and more powerful.... fun! 



Kframe said:


> The main reason I have posted this Personal log today is that I am somewhat closer to my goal of doing the backwards roll..  I very nearly had it today, had to stop as I nearly took out a leg of my daughters bed and it was her bed time. (her room is large and spacious, was practicing there. )  I think with some more time on my own ill be able to do it a lot more consistently.


 
Ha, cool!  



Kframe said:


> I need to buy some tatami mats, as I need a softer place to learn my rolls at home. Doing them on hard flooring, as  a newb at least is painfull on my knees.(I do them from kneeling)   I do need to find a way to condition the skin on the tops of my knees, will be further researching this..



Try mattresses, or mats such as jigsaw mats (can be a bit expensive, but not more than tatami mats), should be easier to find, store, and look after, as well as commonly being softer and better to practice on, if you have the room. You also might want to invest in some thin, or basic knee pads if you're doing it all from kneeling. 



Kframe said:


> What I have found odd is that, the side roll is so much easier to do. I am struggling a bit with my front roll, as I consistently screw up the angle of my shoulder and end up in a very bad side roll.



Yeah... that's pretty common. I've noticed a number of reasons, not really any point speculating here, but the end result of them all is the same... as you go forward for your zenpo kaiten, the lead knee turns and points to the side... which turns your body... and leads you into more of a sokuho kaiten instead. Try to ensure the lead knee continues to point in the direction you're rolling, and you could find that helps. 



Kframe said:


> I have only rolled from standing one time, and that was during class. I  will not attempt it, until I get more practice time, doing it under supervision and after I get better at doing them at home kneeling.



Cool. 



Kframe said:


> Future goals include getting the fixtures to hang my heavy bag at my new home, and to get a good practice 3foot dowel rod so I can work on the three hanbo techniques that sensei wants all beginners to know.



Cool. Dowel tends to not be so good for anything with impact (it can splinter or break, having a wider grain, and being less "solid"), but for practicing actions, good idea. 



Kframe said:


> Please, note, this is a personal log, not a official school day log. just a record of my personal home training.



Nice work, this is a good way to track your progress. Very cool.


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## Carol (Dec 30, 2013)

Love reading your log, KFrame.  :asian:

If by chance you are interested in puzzle mats for your workout area, check out Harbor Freight Tools or Ocean State Job Lot -- if you have either near you.  I saw 1/2" puzzle mats in both shops for a decent price...I'm planning on picking some up to make a more rigid floor for my tent


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## Kframe (Dec 30, 2013)

I found some at Costco so im going to pick some up.  Should make my ukemi practice so much more comfortable.   Thank you for the suggestion.  

Still however, I need to formulate a plan to condition the skin on my knees. These are meant to save my bacon on any surface, so I need to not feel pain there. 
I would love to have my knees conditioned by spring, so I can do my rolls in my grass out side my house.


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## Hatsie (Dec 31, 2013)

As you improve kframe you won't even use your hands to roll, let alone your knees!   Youl be right


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## Rokuta (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi Kframe,
"The main reason I have posted this Personal log today is that I am somewhat closer to my goal of doing the backwards roll.. I very nearly had it today, had to stop as I nearly took out a leg of my daughters bed and it was her bed time. (her room is large and spacious, was practicing there. ) I think with some more time on my own ill be able to do it a lot more consistently."


When I started out I moved the dining table out of the way, which gave me a clear shot from the front wall to the back door or about 20 feet. It is a lot easier practicing rolls for the first time in winter if you do them indoors rather than outside. No disrespect to my sensei, but it is very cold in VA in December and I was a wuss.


"I need to buy some tatami mats, as I need a softer place to learn my rolls at home. Doing them on hard flooring, as a newb at least is painfull on my knees.(I do them from kneeling) I do need to find a way to condition the skin on the tops of my knees, will be further researching this.."


Are you working on hardwood floors? Carpeted floors? I found that I learned well on the second (1st?) floor of my house where it was carpet on plywood and when I could tolerate it moved to the basement (1st?)where the floor is concrete. 


"What I have found odd is that, the side roll is so much easier to do. I am struggling a bit with my front roll, as I consistently screw up the angle of my shoulder and end up in a very bad side roll."


Yeah, totally counterintuitive isn't it.  May I offer a little advice on the front roll? You will go where your leading foot is pointed. So if it is pointed off at an angle you are most likely to follow it than proceed straight. Also, correct hand placement helps a lot too. 


"I have only rolled from standing one time, and that was during class. I will not attempt it, until I get more practice time, doing it under supervision and after I get better at doing them at home kneeling."


You are going to love rolling from standing. There are three techniques which come to mind. 


"Please, note, this is a personal log, not a official school day log. just a record of my personal home training."


Sounds like you are moving ahead. Keep rolling and memorize the terminology/meanings. ​


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## gapjumper (Jan 1, 2014)

Kframe said:


> I found some at Costco so im going to pick some up.  Should make my ukemi practice so much more comfortable.   Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> Still however, I need to formulate a plan to condition the skin on my knees. These are meant to save my bacon on any surface, so I need to not feel pain there.
> I would love to have my knees conditioned by spring, so I can do my rolls in my grass out side my house.



"Conditioning" your knees sounds like you could just damage yourself. Practising rolling is the key, then your knees will be fine. Rolling should not hurt your knees, unless you are doing them very wrong.

Can I just suggest that instead of going away from class thinking you need to toughen the skin on your knees, that you simply ask your instructor what you should do/are doing wrong?


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## Kframe (Jan 1, 2014)

gapjumper said:


> "Conditioning" your knees sounds like you could just damage yourself. Practising rolling is the key, then your knees will be fine. Rolling should not hurt your knees, unless you are doing them very wrong.
> 
> Can I just suggest that instead of going away from class thinking you need to toughen the skin on your knees, that you simply ask your instructor what you should do/are doing wrong?




I guess I should clarify here. Most here know that im in the middle of my weight loss journey. I have lost 100lbs, but have like 90 to go. So for me, starting on my knees, the skin hurts. At the finish  of the roll, I end up back on my knees, right before I stand up. Again, its not the roll that hurts my skin, its the weight of my whale blubber on my skin during those moments im on the ground on my knees. Its not the knee joint that hurts, its the skin on top of the knee.


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## jks9199 (Jan 1, 2014)

I think the skin on your knees is a problem that'll take care of itself, in two ways.  First, as you continue to practice, you're going to be doing most of your rolls from a standing or upright position and going right back to that standing or upright position.  After all, one of the purposes of rolling is to let you get back up, ready to fight, if you're thrown, right?  Second, your weight loss journey is ongoing -- and while it's not instant, you're going to continue to lose weight.


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## Kframe (Jan 1, 2014)

Ya it is incase you get thown. But there is a moment your on your knees. Its that moment that hurts.  The journey is long and hard. It would have been easier to just get lapband and be done with it, but i didn't want to get cut open like a fish. Plus its not a safe surgery, people that go through it look unhealthy and malnourished. Not how i want to loose weight.. 

So bike and yoga is what im doing right now.


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## Kframe (Jan 1, 2014)

Captains personal log Star date... Oh wait wrong log.. 

Had a interesting thought pop into my head that im interested to scratch, when my next beginner class starts.  Way back when I had my first class, one of the things we did was ura gyaku..  I was watching videos of another move called Hon Gyaku.  I saw some similarities to the way we were doing our ura gyaku that day.. Namely, after we rotated the hand out, our other hand came up in a shuto and pushed down on the elbow and he would continue to the ground going forward and down. 

Watching videos of hon gyaku it appears to move in a similar path with a assist on the opponents elbow.  I have watched many videos of ura, and I have not come across any that do it the way we do. Though I did see one were a guy used his palm to push the elbow down. 

I find this fascinating, as both seam very similar but, also different. Its almost as if there isn't a wrong way to do some of this.  Either way, I cant wait to get to class and find out, as im sure that section of the kihon hapo is next based on the pacing of the last few class's in relation to my newbi hand book. 

Just the inner thinking of a madman. I cant help it. When im interested in a martial art, especially one im actually doing, I spend great quantities of time replaying and trying to think of ways to apply what I have learned. Even though I have only been shown a little. I think im a little crazy.


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## Chris Parker (Jan 2, 2014)

Heh heh heh.... Hon Gyaku.... my guys love that one.... uh, maybe not "love"... ha!

Realistically, although they look similar, Ura Gyaku and Hon Gyaku are quite different. Ura Gyaku is a twist to the wrist, whereas Hon Gyaku is a lock of the wrist. Honestly, wait until you feel it before playing around with it... it's nasty, and comes on damn quick!

With regards to the skin on your knees, I'm just going to re-iterate... knee pads! Don't worry about when you get thrown later, realistically you should never land on your knees anyway, and the most common reason to work on the conditioning of your knees is for the suwari waza (kneeling techniques), in which case... knee pads!


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## Kframe (Jan 2, 2014)

Chris, can you suggest any knee pads that might be available in USA? I bought a pair from walmart and they are so poorly made. They only have one support strap and wont stay put on my knees.   

You mention the knees are not really used  during the rolls. But it seams like at some point, you flow over your knees, as you move out of the roll? Maybe its just that im at the newbie stage of the rolls.


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## jks9199 (Jan 3, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Chris, can you suggest any knee pads that might be available in USA? I bought a pair from walmart and they are so poorly made. They only have one support strap and wont stay put on my knees.
> 
> You mention the knees are not really used  during the rolls. But it seams like at some point, you flow over your knees, as you move out of the roll? Maybe its just that im at the newbie stage of the rolls.



A couple of places you might look for kneepads that are more durable might be Galls or 5.11. Both are LE gear providers and not a few SWAT types use kneepads.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## KydeX (Jan 3, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Maybe its just that im at the newbie stage of the rolls.


Yes  You will learn to roll smoother and smoother without banging your knees to the floor. Eventually you can do it on concrete or pavement without hurting yourself too much. Just keep practicing. 


Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk


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## Chris Parker (Jan 3, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Chris, can you suggest any knee pads that might be available in USA? I bought a pair from walmart and they are so poorly made. They only have one support strap and wont stay put on my knees.


 
I just got mine from a martial arts store... no straps, they just get pulled up around the knees. Mine are kinda like these: http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11365582&view=grid 



Kframe said:


> You mention the knees are not really used  during the rolls. But it seams like at some point, you flow over your knees, as you move out of the roll? Maybe its just that im at the newbie stage of the rolls.



Depends on how the rolls are done. In many cases, you end up on one knee (half-kneel), but it should be a gentle settling on the knee, not a slam. In the Jinenkan, for example, they typically train to always end up on their feet already, so there are different ways of doing things. But you don't roll over your knees... they should be tucked into your body, ideally.


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## Kframe (Jan 3, 2014)

Well part of my issue is I cant tuck them in very far. I have 90lbs in the way yet.. So it looks like a hell of a lot of problems are going to be solved when I get thinner.  IRL its not a huge problem. If I end up having to use a roll in real life, it will likely save me greater injury. Skinned knees, or slightly banged knees are acceptable until I loose the weight. It Is not perfect, but with time it will be ok.


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## Kframe (Jan 5, 2014)

Personal log. 

A feeling of frustration bordering on anger has started to creep in over the last week and half.  I enjoy what I have done so far, and like what I have seen. My problem is I am not getting enough instruction.  With his job putting him a 24hour schedule and the assistant instructor unable to get to town in time for the basic beginner class, but can make it for the regular class that comes after. I only get 45mins of training with my instructor once a week. I can only do so much on my own, I have still struggling to do the aruki tsuki drills correctly as they require  a series of simultaneous foot and hand movements.   Training my self is problematic, as I have ADD and it takes me many reps with a instructor guiding me before I a able to do  it my self at home. He has a beginner hand book of things that must be mastered before promotion to the next grade. Which is important for me so I can actually get regular training more then once a week.

Out of the entire book, only things I have a barest of grips on is the basic forward punch drill and San Shin  no Kata and side rolls.. The rest are a lil more complex and I need more time with him before Im skilled enough to train them at home. (talking about the aruki tsuki drills)

It took me 3 months to get my schedule changed so I could make it to the original class schedule with 3 beginner class's a week. Only for it to change on the day I go to sign up and him to drop the vary beginner class's I changed my schedule to attend. 

I don't want to be "that guy" when/if I ever get promoted at the regular class and have crappy basics.  Ill talk to him but I honestly don't think there is anything he can do about it. His schedule is set and likely wont change.  Ill tell him my feelings but, I don't know what good it will do.  

Im mad because I want to really explore and dig into this art. However, I need more training, I enjoy my self so much better when I have a full training schedule.  

I don't want to quit, but if after I talk to him and if nothing can change, I'm going to consider it. I need more time on the mats, not less. I want to develop into something. I am so tired of every dojo I train at falling under. Both of them so far have gone out of business.. I'm tired of dojo hopping. It seams in this case, that its not going any were but because of travel issue(assistant instructor) and work schedules(main instructor) I'm going to be getting far less instruction then what my tuition is paying for. 

I just feel Im getting the short end of the stick. I Hope I can continue in this art, but I cant just spend the next year doing  45mins  a week with the instructor.  

God dang it, looks like I need to think about back up schools to attend.


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## jks9199 (Jan 5, 2014)

Given the change in structure, perhaps he'll modify the requirements and let you begin attending the regular class sooner?


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## Kframe (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't think so. He has stated that these things must be done to a acceptable level before you can attend the regular class.  As I said ill talk to him but I don't foresee much change.


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## Kframe (Jan 5, 2014)

Just wanted to add this. Attending the regular class right now would be pointless. I have watched them and he is correct. In order to ever be able to do anything they are doing you need to have the beginner stuff down pat.  Lots of rolling and other things that have to be done, and I am not good enough at them. Hence my frustration over not enough training time.


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## Kframe (Jan 5, 2014)

I guess there is no point in quitting. Im not happy about having to bumble my own way through some things on my own, but if that's what it takes then ill bumble on till I can attend the regular class. I just feel this could be going faster. 

Chris parker, looking forward to your PM sir.


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## KydeX (Jan 6, 2014)

Don't quit. That 'll definitely get you nowhere. I understand your frustration, but stick with it and you will get there. 

I don't understand why your teacher won't let you join the regular class though. At my school, which is also Bujinkan, beginners can join if they want to. They will get the same instruction as the others, nothing more, nothing less. I don't really see the problem in that. 

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk


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## Kframe (Jan 6, 2014)

Its more about the things I cant do yet, and how it would affect the teaching of the class to the others..  I cant roll reliably yet, and I cant do any of the Aruki tsuki drills yet. I would be a hindrance to the class right now.  Ya im going to stick it out, but still frustrated and would love more beginner class's.


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## Kframe (Jan 6, 2014)

Possibly stupid question here. Im going to be getting my mats soon from Costco. About how much space should I clear in my living room for rolling in all directions? I can move the furniture easily so I need a good square footage measurement.


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## jks9199 (Jan 6, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Its more about the things I cant do yet, and how it would affect the teaching of the class to the others..  I cant roll reliably yet, and I cant do any of the Aruki tsuki drills yet. I would be a hindrance to the class right now.  Ya im going to stick it out, but still frustrated and would love more beginner class's.



Still -- talk to your teacher.  He might be able to hook you up with another student to practice and improve faster... or decide that it's worth having you come to the regular class and work in a corner alone for a bit.  I don't personally run a beginner/advanced class.  I teach one class, and pull new students off to the side until they're up to speed.



Kframe said:


> Possibly stupid question here. Im going to be getting my mats soon from Costco. About how much space should I clear in my living room for rolling in all directions? I can move the furniture easily so I need a good square footage measurement.



How much space do  you need to roll?  Ideally, you should be able to control the space of your rolls to a certain extent so as to take up more or less space based on what's available to you or your goals.  Being able to do a wonderful roll in 8 feet might be a bad thing if there's a wall 6 feet away....  and I've been known to use a roll to close distance on someone and come at them in a really unexpected direction.


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## Kframe (Jan 6, 2014)

Part of the reason is how class's are structured. The advanced class is 1.5 hours long They run through the 45min beginner stuff in around 25minutes.. A brisk pace.  Then depending on the class make up its some thing from the Ten Chi Jin for the kyu belts, or if its a class with only black belts, then its what ever they are doing at their level at that time.    

Since most everything is a partnered exercise having me in that class when I can only craw through them at slow speed will slow it down to much. At least that's my opinion on why its segregated.


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## jks9199 (Jan 6, 2014)

Not questioning how he runs his class; it's HIS class, and HIS material to teach.  Just saying that's not how I teach MY class.  Chris may do something different with his, and Brian yet another something different.  But if you talk about your concerns with your teacher, he has an opportunity to help you address them, rather than have you silently frustrated and fuming.  There's a difference between going to your instructor, and asking "How can I catch up faster?" and complaining or demanding "find time to teach more beginner classes!"


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## Hatsie (Jan 9, 2014)

Kframe, I hear what your saying and honestly I think it's time your teacher did!
   Your keen as mustard and have made personal sacrifices in changing schedules around only to have the rug ripped from under you.

    Arrange to meet him. Lay your cards out on the table, explain clearly and in detail, what you have and haven't done to make his original timetable. Bottom line your a 'serious student' I'll be very surprised if he stone walls you.  Even if your allowed to attend the class, participate in what you can and practice away in a corner on your own with his syllabus and occasional correction.
   Where's the harm there ? Your not in the way or being 'that guy' ie. goofy uncoordinated uke with two left feet . And even if you were, where the beneavolent heart?

good luck


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## Kframe (Jan 9, 2014)

Im going to talk to him. Im far less angry then I was when I posted. Im going to be respectful and just say my concerns. Im sure we can come to some kind of arrangement.   

Im used to training being available 5 days a week.


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## jks9199 (Jan 9, 2014)

Kframe said:


> Im going to talk to him. Im far less angry then I was when I posted. Im going to be respectful and just say my concerns. Im sure we can come to some kind of arrangement.
> 
> Im used to training being available 5 days a week.



That's one of the drawbacks of less commercial training.  I'm happy to work out times with my students, but it's got to be around both our schedules, 'cause I gotta go to work.  Some clubs have more training opportunities than others, depending on how they get their training space.


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## Kframe (Jan 10, 2014)

I know, but I spent a lot of time arranging my life around the original schedule. 

Found out class on Saturday is cancelled. He did mention on FB that he is going to be adding in a Wednesday class to make up for lost training time. He made not mention of a beginner class.  Since I can not talk to him in person, I sent him a message on FB explaining my concerns, and asked him if he would like to talk over the phone or in person.  

I know I was spoiled by lots of available training but IMHO once a week is Not enough training in any activity. I know Some will disagree but that is my opinion. 

Since I can not accurately replicate the various aruki tsuki drills, and avoid training it incorrectly I will not be doing it alone.  I have  decided to confine my training to the basic forward and backward punch drill,  and the San shin no kata.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jan 10, 2014)

I agree, once per week (especially for only 45 minutes) is really not enough to make appreciable progress. Heck, I train 10-12 hours per week on average and I feel like it's not enough. Realistically you need at least a couple of classes per week to get anywhere.


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## Kframe (Jan 10, 2014)

I sent him a FB message. I will await his reply and hopefully I can talk to him on the phone or something.


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## Kframe (Jan 11, 2014)

Thoughts from a rambling lunatic.

I have been thinking about something interesting. I just realized I don't give a flying crap about MMA anymore.  I had always intended to co train mma along side BBT.   Yet here I am a month in, and I'm committed and paid for training in BBT yet, I have not acted on the free offers of 2 weeks unlimited training and easy monthly payments at the mma place I was looking at.  All this time I'm fuming over my perceived lack of training in bbt, yet not caring one iota about mma training. 

Apparently I have moved on. I could have started any time at this mma place yet, it dosent even blip on the radar. 

I would still like to some day learn GJJ as a separate art, as I do enjoy ground work and I think it would mesh well with BBT.

I think, I have finally found something.. Now if I could just to the next kyu level I can train much much more with actual people.

On a training note, I was playing around with Ichimonji no kamae today. I had my wife in her MMA stance(I have been training her) and she was throwing lots of quick snappy 1's and 2's. I found it quite easy to parry  and use proper movement to deal with her jabs. I even nailed a Jodan Uke.(she was not thrilled with that made a hard thud-whap sound)

I noticed that, from a "normal" stance like Shizen(the generic natural stance) I found that just by going into a proper ichi monji had some movement off the line. I may have been doing it wrong but, it seams that  from shizen(natural) Going into ichi moves me off line. It didn't feel wrong, but ill check with sensei and get his opinion.   Going from left ichi to right ichi had a interesting effect on my body movement..  All most like a zigzag just by going into those 2 consecutively. 

I have been working the San shin no kata and I feel I am a lot smoother then when I first started.  This and my basic kamae practice and the punch drills and working the front kick  are the extent of my home training that I am able to do..


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## Mon Mon (Jan 19, 2014)

I would say this focus on learning the basics of kihon happo sanshin no kata and ukemi. Don't be afraid to question your teachers.

PS i sent you a private message did you get it?


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## Kframe (Jan 19, 2014)

Yes I did Mon Mon, thank you. 

Time for a after practice review.  This wont be a blow by blow as that wouldn't be cool.  Practice Saturday was good.  We did lots of ukemi today.   I have much to learn with my ukemi but I did have a victory. I managed a Back roll the second time I tried it. At first when I completed it, it felt wrong, as I went over my shoulder but sensei said it was good.  I remember looking at him and saying "that's it?" and he replied "yep" .  

I was nervous about the back roll, but now im even more nervous about the new rolls he just introduced to me..  He put two chairs up and a bo staff between them on the lowest level.  We had to roll over it. It was done in a step by step fashion. With the bar on the first level I was able to nail it perfectly. The problem arose when he put it on the next level. You have no choice but to dive over it at the last step.  I got the first part of the landing but I got scared and screwed up the roll.  I plan on having this by the next practice session. 

So ya, I managed the back roll and im happy. How ever my progress with it will be very slow and incremental. He had us working on a drill for it, were we go half way through it and touch our feet to the ground be hind us. I cant get that compact, its my gut. Sure during the roll I can use the momentum of my legs to carry me around but until I lose the gut I wont be able to do it very slowly with that level of control..  He said he understood my problem, that its like carrying a full rucksack upfront. So as I loose weight ill get better at back rolling.

After class I asked about consecutive striking and striking from the rear side with out a step. To clarify the question I used the example of the good old 1/2 from boxing. While I did get a good explanation of why and we attack like we do and how and when we strike from the rear side with out a step, he also demonstrated why.    He had me get into my boxing stance and throw a 1/2 at him. I obliged.  I however did not pull any punch's and the speed was light sparring speed with about 30% power.   Im not entirely sure what he did.   He wanted to demonstrate the drawback of that attack.  How it breaks your posture and can put you off balance. 

I had every intention of hitting him.  He moved so quickly that I had a tough time keeping track of him.  He managed to get to the outside as my cross fired off and I have no clue what happened after that.. Some kind of arm takedown. Which I thought was impossible as I was in full boxing mode with quick retraction and snappy punches.  I had intended to keep striking if I had the opportunity.    I felt(didn't see it thought but only felt it) a parry of some kind and then something on my arm and I was taken forward and down and landed on my side, kinda. 

He must have let go of my arm, because I screwed up the ukemi and managed to land on my own elbow. So now I have a pulled muscle just under my ribs.  It was all in fun and in my mind it was a test.  I was going to continue striking if I had the opportunity but was unable to do so. I just had a difficult time following his movements.  Seeing as this was the assistant instructor, im impressed with his movement. 

The head teacher started a new beginner class on Wednesdays(which takes care of my other concern its a 1.5 hour class) and I intend to ask him to walk me through what he  did. 

While it doesn't really address my issues with self confidence it does at least give me a indication that my instructors were well trained..  Im beginning to think that maybe my issues are related to my own history and emotional hang ups then any problems with the art it self.


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## Kframe (Jan 19, 2014)

Made some edits, major spelling issues abounded.


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## Kframe (Feb 1, 2014)

Posting a overview of todays training because it was a great one and helped me with some nagging issues I was having.. 

Today was like starting over again for me. Sensei pulled out a focus mit and we did the punch and Omote shuto and Jodan uke. Having to hit something with these attacks threw me off. I thought I was doing my home practice correctly but I was mistaken. There was problems with my footwork and syncing my hands. 


In fact I was struggling so hard I was frustrated. He got out some tape and put them at the correct angles and that helped me a lot..   

That drill helped a lot, and I had a good time. I now know what I need to do to step up my home training and I will do so. Of course I have to purchase some things to do so, but they are cheap. They will have a good effect on my training once up and positioned for practice. 

I did learn my sensei can put a lot of power behind his strikes, I was really impressed with it. Holding the pad, he was able to move me back, and I was braced with my feet trying to not get moved....

We discussed the theory behind our strikes and that a lot of my issues with striking will be solved with time  and practice.  

One thing he noticed was, I retracted after I hit the pad. He told me not to do that, as I should not give back the space that I took from the opponent.. I have to work on that. I do it subconsciously as I did box and that is part of the game. 

I have so much to learn its daunting. Todays practice helped a lot and helped to guide me with a lot of my questions regarding striking.


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## Kframe (Feb 7, 2014)

Personal notes. 

Class is starting to take on a very nice feel. As time goes on I get another question answered and another goal to attain..  I am finding my self less and less worried about the style of striking in this art and more worried about perfecting the basic punch I am being taught.   I am starting to come to a primitive understanding of it, and why we don't do as much rear hand non stepping repeated striking. That I am starting to understand has to do with many things, like range and the aims of what I am being taught.  Standing in the "pocket" exchanging blows and defenses, is fighting not self defense, nor is it something that would be used on a battle field I feel. 

So my primitive understanding is leading me to the notion that it is at my level being used as part of the entrance. The no retracting, while I am very uncomfortable with it, serves a purpose, not giving back the space you just took.  I wont be just hanging there at that perfect boxing range but moving to do something to end the situation and my lead hand I just struck with will likely be involved in what ever that is. 

Im sure there are flaws in my primitive understanding but  my understanding has to start somewhere. 

We also did some knife defense against the common attacks you see on those scary Youtube real knife violence videos.  Such as the Grab and stab and others.  This was a incredible work out for me. What I found strange was, that it felt like sparring. Even though it wasn't.  I also discovered some things from my mma experience that while good in mma, not so good on the street.    During one point I had taken him down, and I had good control off the knife.  I managed to land in what was side control, and I instinctively moved into mount. At which point I let go of one hand and was only controlling the knife with one hand. My mind was focused on going to mount and I remember wanting to put him into a Americana as his arm was ripe for it.  

I had lost control and by mounting I exposed my femoral arteries.  At another point, after a take down, I got lost. I had his arms but lost control trying to maneuver to side control. It then became a fight, as he was resisting regaining his knife control and going for the kill. I had instinctively made it a fight. Which is not good. 

Another time, i landed in what is called open half guard. I had accidentally kneed him in the crotch, during the take down. I had his weapon in control but began to fight for the guard pass.    I noticed that in each take down I would in my mind tick off the positions i was entering and the BJJ positional hierarchy. Which stipulates i be on top in mount in mount control. Position before submission. 

I  guess in a nutshell i was instinctively turning things into a fight, which usually when  i forgot my self i ended up getting killed.    I thoroughly enjoyed class the knife defenses were very basic and simple. Nothing flowery or unrealistic, that i know of.   He even let me pick the scenario, and so i went with what i saw as a common knife assult on youtube. The grab and stab.  

The class felt great, had more of a rbsd feel then what i would expect from such a traditional art.  I have come to the conclusion that most preconceptions i am having with this art are probably not true? At least with regards to were i am training.   They take this seriously, simplicity and directness is important.  

I come away from each class happy and feeling good.  This words to this music video sum up my feelings regarding  martial arts  journey to this point and my current feelings.  



 The feeling of the music and words are what i want you to feel..

"I wanna heal, I wanna feel what I thought was never real
 I wanna let go of the pain I&#8217;ve felt so long
 (Erase all the pain till it&#8217;s gone)
 I wanna heal, I wanna feel like I&#8217;m close to something real
 I wanna find something I&#8217;ve wanted all along
 Somewhere I belong"


"I will never know myself until I do this on my own
 And I will never feel anything else, until my wounds are healed
 I will never be anything till I break away from me
 I will break away, I'll find myself today"


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## Kframe (Feb 26, 2014)

I have discovered some of the perils of self training at home. I am struggling with the basic punch. What is pissing me off the most is,  I was a boxer.. Punching should be easy. I have done it a million times.    I keep screwing it up.. Instead of bringing my legs in line as I punch, I  am moving in to a not posture that is not lined up.  Hard to explain but for those that do this kind of art understand.  

Its hard to explain this as it is complicated. Step off line while receiving. Bring rear foot across the line,  in line with your lead foot while punching. The  rear foot is pointed away(as per the classical stances).  I keep moving behind my lead foot. Almost like a circle step with my rear foot. 

I find my self so angry about this. I know the only solution is more practice but seriously after 2 months in, I should have this by now. 

On a higher note im starting to finally figure out some of the basic locks. 

I feel  like a bad student. I can watch them demo, watch the senior students do their practice of the tech of the day. Yet my dysfunctional brain has to be led through it when it comes to my turn. Despite having watched it a few times. 

I enjoy my class and my teachers. It is a serious challenge right now, but im not giving up. I just don't remember mma  and boxing being this hard technically at the beginning.


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## jks9199 (Feb 26, 2014)

Unlearning is harder than learning and you're learning an entirely different way of moving and generating power. It's going to take time and you most certainly will feel clumsy, uncoordinated, and downright stupid as you fight old and ingrained habits and methods. There's no easy way around it...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## Chris Parker (Feb 27, 2014)

Kframe said:


> I have discovered some of the perils of self training at home. I am struggling with the basic punch. What is pissing me off the most is,  I was a boxer.. Punching should be easy. I have done it a million times.    I keep screwing it up.. Instead of bringing my legs in line as I punch, I  am moving in to a not posture that is not lined up.  Hard to explain but for those that do this kind of art understand.
> 
> Its hard to explain this as it is complicated. Step off line while receiving. Bring rear foot across the line,  in line with your lead foot while punching. The  rear foot is pointed away(as per the classical stances).  I keep moving behind my lead foot. Almost like a circle step with my rear foot.
> 
> ...



Ah, mate... regarding the bold, talk to anyone who's been doing this a long while, and you'll hear pretty much all of the ones worth their salt tell you they're still working on it themselves! 2 months really isn't anything yet... especially when you're fighting against prior training.


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## KydeX (Feb 27, 2014)

I trained for many years in Kyokushin karate before I started BBT, but my punching and kicking has mostly benefited from that. We have former boxers in my club too, and I see the type of punching you are describing. You just have to keep training. But a boxing punch is still an effective punch, so I wouldn't think so much about unlearning it. Just tell yourself that you are learning a new punch which is different to the one you already know. Just like any other technique. Do it slowly at first so you learn the movement and speed it up as you get better. 

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## Kframe (Feb 27, 2014)

Thanks for the words guys. I know its something ill be working on forever. Im frustrated because when I started boxing it took me a month to learn the punching, in mma it took me about 1.5 weeks to learn our kicks(all two of them).  Im just not used to it taking so long to learn what amounts to a defensive counter.


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## Kframe (Feb 27, 2014)

Had a new student join. She like me, has prior MA experience. Its nice to see someone else struggle with some of the same things I am.. She came from TKD and some kind of womans self defense, were she was a  instructor.   While she is immenantly more physically fit and able bodied then I am, she is having the same issues.   Immediately right off the bat, she nails all the Kaiten rolling. Which im not surprised as she has good balance and fitness I attribute to her TKD. Were she started having trouble is with the one thing that comes second nature to her and that is the kicks.  

This art kicks differently then either her or I am used to. She is instinctively wanting to do a hard chamber then snap out. Which is not what we are doing at our basic level. Our kick is like a rock on a string that is being swung. The chamber happens at the end of the travel of the leg and then out.(Of course the instructors can bring their knee during the chamber to there shoulders, I cant)  I realize that's not likely the best description, but I think you get it. 

Its kind of funny, her first question to me was "when do we spar?".


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## Kframe (Mar 8, 2014)

My muscles in my Upper legs, are on fire. My inner thighs hurt so much.   Earlier in the week, I told sensei I was having problems with the dive rolling because I was afraid of them.  He said we would cover them at the end of class.. I thought it would be a short tutorial or discussion, I was wrong. 15mins before the end of class, he gets out 2  hanbo(3 foot sticks) and puts them a few feet apart. Says ok roll over them and don't touch them or the space in the middle. We all did a few rotations through that, then he moved them further apart.  

This went on for a while. The got a wood sword out and held it a foot off the ground between the sticks and we had to roll over it. He finished the obstacle rolling with a chair on its side.  That was the hardest thing to dive roll over.  Though I was freaked out at first with all this dive rolling, his advice to " don't mind fark it, over thinking will screw you"  helped a lot.  I just had to do it.  We finished up with Standing at the wall, and walking up to the end of a mat and jumping out long and low as we can and rolling  as far as we can with the goal of clearing 2 whole mats.   

This practice made my legs so sore and used, I was still considerably stiff and sore 3 days later which is today. So today was more difficult rolling. We did the 2 hand versions of everything we know up to that point.  Then after that it was the one hand version followed by the NO hand version. Needless to say, Back rolling is far far more difficult with no hands then with hands..... 

I would also like to note that my inner thighs are even more sore now then they were after Wednesday. How ever most of that is on the left side as opposed to the right side. Where as my right side was the sorest from Wednesday on, now it is my left side.  

To make my day even more awesome, was that after todays beginner class, I was asked if would like to attend the next class. The next class is the advanced class, for greenbelts and above(just greens right now in it). I am very happy to have been invited to participate. Were as I normally just watch.  

They went over the very same rolls we had just done in the beginner class.. As I was already very sore, this was a challenge, but I made it through.  I think I understand why he invited me, because he wanted to cover some basic Mount escapes. Having done some good bit of mma, this makes sense to invite me, if only for the sport perspective. The emphasis here was different. Were I on instinct immediately start looking for submissions, they were always looking for escape. I liked that the mount and guard escapes they were using were not overly complex and felt to me to be effective.  We even covered some GNP defense. 

Overall, this was a fantastic class, and I had tons of fun. Being able to help guys through the basic positions and being able to demo things for him and on him was very nice.

Now im sore, and im glad to be eating this baked skinless/boneless breast in front of me. Hopefully my legs recover faster this time around..


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