# WW1 combat training



## Deaf Smith (Apr 29, 2008)

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/department58.cfm

Look for "US Army Doughboys in Basic Training before Going Overseas"
video.

Actually, not bad at all!

Deaf


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## arnisador (Apr 29, 2008)

You see so much of this from WWII, but I don't think I've _ever _seen any from WWI before!

Lots of interesting footage there...I could spend a lot of time at this site!


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## kidswarrior (Apr 29, 2008)

Great find, D-S. I recognized a lot of things I first learned in martial arts studios or in a boxing gym, as well as on DVD's/in books. Wonder who borrowed from who, or if there was one source that influenced both.... Anyway, I'm going to watch it a few more times. Some great review of basics, by some master instructors.


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## KenpoTex (Apr 30, 2008)

That's pretty cool, thanks for posting it.

Here's one of my favorites, it's an informational feature from 1942 showing some of the Marine Corps training
http://www.tcm.com/video/videoPlayer/?cid=139061


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## Deaf Smith (Apr 30, 2008)

Real good film kenpotex!

I liked the stick attacks and the bayonet (live blades they had, not shethed!) They had grab attacks as well as strangle defenses.

And the hip throws. Notice how fit they were. Tough young men.

Only scarry part was running around with fixed bayonets over obstacles! I''d worry about someone getting stuck.

Guys, 

That WW1 stuff to me looked awful good. I like boxing and the way they trained slipping punches, well I just might add that to my training! Maybe try it tonight at class.

Deaf


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## Sukerkin (Apr 30, 2008)

A fascinating find, *Deaf*.  The 'boxing' film in particular was nice to watch as I recall to this day my paternal grandfather teaching me very similar moves when I was a kid.

I also remember that same grandfather (who was in both wars) telling me of the idiocy of commanding officers marching columns of men of the same 'cloth' as those we just watched on film right into the teeth of German machine guns.  That makes me so very sad - sorry chaps, maudlin tonight, I don't know why .


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## Steel Tiger (Apr 30, 2008)

A very interesting look into the past, what a great site!  

There was some pretty recognisable stuff in there.  Though for one of the throws I think you might need to be wearing jodhpurs.  It looked like they were trying to cover as many situations as possible - the ones with guys crawling toward each other stands out.  It was also good to see they did some 'realistic' conditions training in that they had guys wearing helmets and carrying packs while doing their SD training.

I also had a look at the basic training film for the African-American troops.  What a difference!  They got about half the training of the white troops and they didn't really do any of the esprit de corps groups exercises either.


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## Deaf Smith (Apr 30, 2008)

If you guys click the main site you will get WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq.... LOTS of videos!

I only wish I could download that training film and study it. Honestly, I think there is lots to learn from that WW1 film. 

Even the new Marines Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) could take some lessons from these guys!

Odd, it was almost 100 years ago. And everyone you see in that film..... is dead. But their ghost still speak.

Deaf


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## kidswarrior (Apr 30, 2008)

Steel Tiger said:


> There was some pretty recognisable stuff in there.


Amen!



			
				Sukerkin said:
			
		

> I also remember that same grandfather (who was in both wars) telling me of the idiocy of commanding officers marching columns of men of the same 'cloth' as those we just watched on film right into the teeth of German machine guns. That makes me so very sad...


Just shows you're a better man than I, cause it made me very mad  Watching those idealistic kids, in premier shape and giving it their all, thinking they would get to use what they were learning when what they really got was a grinding from the machine guns you describe--or mustard gas...Just disgusting. But not an unusual tactical move by REMF's in wars before or after. :angry:



			
				Deaf Smith said:
			
		

> I only wish I could download that training film and study it. Honestly, I think there is lots to learn from that WW1 film.


I'm with ya, D-S. Looking forward to doing just that this weekend.  BTW, the instructors were superb, imho.


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## tellner (May 1, 2008)

Where did they borrow or copy it from?
Everywhere and nowhere. Why assume that Asia is the Sun Source of All Martial Arts? We have been fighting the way humans fight for a couple million years. The answers are still pretty much the same.

There are fads and trends in combatives as there are in everything. I got a copy of (I think it was Dakin Burdick's) thesis on the evolution of military combatives in the US Army. At some times boxing was emphasized. At other times it was wrestling. In any case you see the same sorts of moves in ancient Asian scrolls, old European Manuals of Defense and Egyptian Papyrii. 

The human body hasn't changed much. The ways of taking it apart haven't, either. The WWI film has material that's relevant to crawling around in trenches because those were the conditions. Bayonet fighting with a big, heavy bolt gun and a long, sturdy bayonet is a little different than doing it with an M-16 and the current standard issue glorified butterknife. Those are little things. 

To quote the late great RAH close combatives have always been about "Do it first. Do it fastest. Do it nastiest."


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## Andy Moynihan (May 1, 2008)

tellner said:


> Where did they borrow or copy it from?
> Everywhere and nowhere. Why assume that Asia is the Sun Source of All Martial Arts? We have been fighting the way humans fight for a couple million years. The answers are still pretty much the same.
> 
> There are fads and trends in combatives as there are in everything. I got a copy of (I think it was Dakin Burdick's) thesis on the evolution of military combatives in the US Army. At some times boxing was emphasized. At other times it was wrestling. In any case you see the same sorts of moves in ancient Asian scrolls, old European Manuals of Defense and Egyptian Papyrii.
> ...


 
You'd be a bit happier with the newer M10 bayonets. They're still only about K-Bar size but come in all blade shapes and are much sturdier than the older, but still around, M7's.


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## Steel Tiger (May 1, 2008)

tellner said:


> Where did they borrow or copy it from?
> Everywhere and nowhere. Why assume that Asia is the Sun Source of All Martial Arts? We have been fighting the way humans fight for a couple million years. The answers are still pretty much the same.
> 
> There are fads and trends in combatives as there are in everything. I got a copy of (I think it was Dakin Burdick's) thesis on the evolution of military combatives in the US Army. At some times boxing was emphasized. At other times it was wrestling. In any case you see the same sorts of moves in ancient Asian scrolls, old European Manuals of Defense and Egyptian Papyrii.


 
From what I have read it looks like many people in Europe were very keen to develop blended combative sets like those used to train these soldiers.  Bartitsu comes immediately to mind.  In Britain they had influences coming from almost every corner of the world, and the US had immigrants flooding in from all over Europe and many other places bringing their own flavour to the mix.

It is always interesting to see the trends that flow through the military MA world.  They tend to be miniature reflections of the trends in the wider MA community.  I expect it has always been the case and will continue to be so.


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## Sukerkin (May 1, 2008)

A most interesting observation there, *ST*.


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