# So I'm learning Chatanyara No Sai from a video...



## Tetsujin (May 23, 2009)

Yeah I know it's not ideal, but please hear me out before just telling me to go find an instructor. I'm not new to karate or to sai (shodan/10yrs exp.). I've received instruction in sai, and have a reasonable level of proficiency with basic techniques and a handful of sai kata (though they are mostly sai translations of empty hand kata).

The dojo where I'm now doing most of my training doesn't teach weapons, but it's a small branch school of an organisation that does, and they've released a DVD containing Chatanyara No Sai (in high resolution and from multiple angles). It's an impressive and fun-looking kata, and with my current skill level it would be a terrible waste not to at least give it a go.

I've learnt the pattern and can follow the stances and techniques being performed, but there are bound to be aspects to those techniques which I won't be picking up from the video. (I may be able to get some assistance from the instructor at another branch school I sometimes train at, but if so it will be from someone for whom English is a second language anyway.)

So what are some tips for peforming this kata well? What things should I be aware of which I might not otherwise pick up on? Any useful pointers from those who practice this kata?

(Here's a clip of the kata I'm talking about, though this is not the video I'm learning from: 



)


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## Sukerkin (May 23, 2009)

The sad answer is, as you knew it would be, that the only 'real' solution is find a qualified instructor. 

Even one that doesn't have English as a first language will be fine - from watching video of Sensei Iwata teaching using only Japanese I can attest that if you have a certain level of knowledge in an art then understanding the words is not all that important. What you need is someone physically there who can see and amend those small inaccuracies that make the border between effective and not.


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## Sukerkin (May 23, 2009)

Oh and as an aside, that video was most interesting viewing.  Thankyou for the link.


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## Brian R. VanCise (May 23, 2009)

I agree that it was a good video as well Sukerkin! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I think in the long run it would be advisable for you to go to one of the other branch schools that does the sai and learn it there.  Then you can use a video as a reference point or as a training tool.  If you learn it from your video then you may ingrain some bad habits that may just be very, very hard to correct down the line.


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## Tetsujin (May 23, 2009)

Yes, good advice. And you can be sure that if and when I can get instruction for this kata then I certainly will do so. There is also a chance that I may be able to get some assistance from another branch school (a third one) though it's one I can't attend very often. In the mean time though, I'm really hoping to hear some tips or pointers from those who practice this sai kata.

Incidentally, I've been through a similar situation before with Bo. I learnt a couple of bo kata via video, and was only later able to recieve supervised instruction. And when I did there was very little if anything that required significant correction. I know there is a chance of ingraining bad habits but that's a risk I'm prepared to take for the sake of finally having something new to practice with sai.

And yeah the performance in the linked vid sure is impressive! Amazing form and power, and faster with sai than anyone else I've seen before.


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## terryl965 (May 23, 2009)

Great video but personal instruction is always the best ideal.


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## jks9199 (May 23, 2009)

So, you have the basics of the weapon, and a decent background.

Sure, you can probably learn the movements of the kata from the video.  Take your time, don't try to learn it too fast, and, when you can, seek actual instruction on the kata from those who know it.  (Is it possible that your instructors know the kata -- but simply don't teach it?)


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## Grenadier (May 24, 2009)

Congrats on learning the kata.  Is this the Ryu Kyu Kobudo system's kata?  

I practice a different kobudo system, so my view may be rather biased in some areas, but one important pointer that I can give you, though, is to look at how relaxed Nakomoto Sensei is in the kata. 

His strikes are powerful indeed, yet, up into the actual moment of impact, look at how relaxed he is.  It's very similar to empty hand Karate training, that the more advanced you get, the more relaxed you are (until the moment of impact).  This is what will give you speed and flow, and also, make the kata a lot easier to perform well.


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## stickarts (May 24, 2009)

The most common challenges I see with my students is that they tend to rush through the form, and the stances, footwork, and power of the weapon suffer as a result. I like to often practice slow motion outdoors and really work the mechanics and flow.


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## Tetsujin (May 24, 2009)

Grenadier said:


> Congrats on learning the kata.  Is this the Ryu Kyu Kobudo system's kata?


Yes. The karate style I'm doing now is Gesshinkai which describes itself as Ryu Kyu Shorin Ryu Karate-do.



Grenadier said:


> I practice a different kobudo system, so my view may be rather biased in some areas, but one important pointer that I can give you, though, is to look at how relaxed Nakomoto Sensei is in the kata.
> 
> His strikes are powerful indeed, yet, up into the actual moment of impact, look at how relaxed he is.  It's very similar to empty hand Karate training, that the more advanced you get, the more relaxed you are (until the moment of impact).  This is what will give you speed and flow, and also, make the kata a lot easier to perform well.


Yup, stay relaxed. Always good advice.


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## Tetsujin (May 24, 2009)

stickarts said:


> The most common challenges I see with my students is that they tend to rush through the form, and the stances, footwork, and power of the weapon suffer as a result. I like to often practice slow motion outdoors and really work the mechanics and flow.


Stay relaxed and don't rush. Gotcha.

I got to practice some more yesterday. There are a lot of stance transitions in this kata, and they're at least as challenging as the actual weapons techniques. Also, a central theme of the kata seems to be how it sets up repeated combinations only to later break the repetition by changing the sequence - which makes excellent sense as a strategy, but makes some parts quite tricky to learn.

I asked my regular instructor and he thinks I can probably get some assistance with this kata if I can get to the honbu dojo. Which I can do, though it means getting up rather early on a Sunday and probably missing the early afternoon cross-training I've been doing on Sundays too. Will be easier if I can get help from my Wed class instructor, but either way I don't think I'll be limited to learning _only_ from the dvd.


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