# Current pandemic vs Past ones



## Chrisinmd (Mar 22, 2020)

The way people are acting and are fearful during this current pandemic makes me think how terrified people most have been during previous ones. Imagine being alive during the Bubonic plague or black death when people had no understanding of how or why this was happening. Or how to prevent it. Must have been so terrifying.

Thoughts?


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## Gnarlie (Mar 22, 2020)

First you would have known of it would be a rumour or when someone had it.

Sometimes I think we know too much. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Tez3 (Mar 22, 2020)

However during the Middle Ages, death was something that was far less strange to people than it is now. People were both more superstitious and more religious. There were always epidemics of some kind, people died from a small cut on their hand and the childbirth mortality was huge. Death was with them every day, you can see this in the art and the writings of the times. While they feared, it was the fear of the familiar rather than the fear of something new. There were plagues just about every year, it came in seasons and the people on the whole resigned to it, unable to prevent it other than to isolate, the way they lived contributed enormously to the spread of disease.

'Filth running in open ditches in the streets, fly-blown meat and stinking fish, contaminated and adulterated ale, polluted well water, unspeakable privies, epidemic disease, - were experienced indiscriminately by all social classes.' (_Holt and Rosser_, The English Medieval Town, (1990))

Later in the 18th century Samuel Pepys wrote in his dairy. Samuel Pepys Plague extracts 

Some people however were heroic and are still remembered. 
The Derbyshire village that self-isolated during the plague


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 22, 2020)

*WARNING TO ALL USERS*

Every past thread on this topic quickly became political and had to be locked. Please do not make us lock this one. Breaches of this rule may result in warnings, and points may be issued.

Play nice.

*Gerry Seymour*
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour


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## jobo (Mar 22, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> *WARNING TO ALL USERS*
> 
> Every past thread on this topic quickly became political and had to be locked. Please do not make us lock this one. Breaches of this rule may result in warnings, and points may be issued.
> 
> ...


 it might help if you put a working definition of what is and isnt political. it would be of even  greater help if you differentiated between politic ( small p) and POLITICS  (capital P) and even more use if you recognised that this isnt an american only forum and things that you consider Political are not such else where in the world

at the moment its a total crap shoot, with political opinion that agree with main stream america ( well right wing america) being not only tolerated but encouraged, and political opinions that agree with main stream Europe being shut down ie its only judged political if one or more mods disagree with your view


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## Chrisinmd (Mar 22, 2020)

Gnarlie said:


> First you would have known of it would be a rumour or when someone had it.
> 
> Sometimes I think we know too much.



You would have known about it when all the bodies started piling up.  A lot of your friends and family and people that you knew.  I guess you would have heard rumors from other areas who had been hit before it got to you.  News didnt travel near as fast as today but it still got around eventually.

Here is a good article on What It Was Like To Be A Body Collector During The Bubonic Plague
What It Was Like To Be A Body Collector During The Bubonic Plague


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## Tez3 (Mar 22, 2020)

There wasn't just the one 'plague' though, https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/application/files/5014/5434/6066/london-plagues-1348-1665.pdf

https://www.history.com/news/6-devastating-plagues

Plague surveillance | CDC


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## granfire (Mar 22, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> There wasn't just the one 'plague' though, https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/application/files/5014/5434/6066/london-plagues-1348-1665.pdf
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/6-devastating-plagues
> 
> Plague surveillance | CDC


true, not just one. 
but at certain times it cleared the countryside of a majority of the people
Some scholars suggest that the depopulation was - sorry mods, political side road - elemental in bringing the Rennaisance and a change in political thinking, or social awareness with them! the pressure to produce as much food from a parcel was lifted, and surplus enabled pursuit of the arts and philosophy. 
At the same time old social structures crumbled, and the knights and nobility were forced to find alternative means of income because they did not have the skill to provide for themselves, or figured it was below their stand. The peasant revolts are believed by some to be a result of this. 'dude, you wanna eat, you better plow a field!'
because there were not enough people to do the forced work anymore either. 

And apparently we always had global traffic, it was just slower....

(and we don't know as much as we think we do, depending on the sources we frequent)

Unfortunately, this IS a highly political topic, as the government response dictates how badly the population will be influenced. 

in historic times there was a call to prayers, spreading the disease like wildfire. 
Now it is the supply of medical supply and implementation of precautionary measures.
Or not, because stock markets take priority....


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## ShortBridge (Mar 22, 2020)

If you're really interested In Understanding this topic, I would highly recommend Albert Camus's novel "The Plague". 

I won't be re-reading it right now because I'm chosing lighter entertainment options, but it's the source for those who want to delve.


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## Tez3 (Mar 22, 2020)

The Black Death brought about the end of feudalism and brought in a system where you actually paid workers!


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 22, 2020)

We have been, well I have been (cuz I'm old) through a few pandemics already

HIV/AIDS Pandemic 2005-2012 (Peak)
H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic: 2009-2010
H3N2 Flu Pandemic 1968

Now Coronavirus 2020.

OUTBREAK: 10 OF THE WORST PANDEMICS IN HISTORY

20 of the worst epidemics and pandemics in history


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Mar 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> it might help if you put a working definition of what is and isnt political. it would be of even  greater help if you differentiated between politic ( small p) and POLITICS  (capital P) and even more use if you recognised that this isnt an american only forum and things that you consider Political are not such else where in the world
> 
> at the moment its a total crap shoot, with political opinion that agree with main stream america ( well right wing america) being not only tolerated but encouraged, and political opinions that agree with main stream Europe being shut down ie its only judged political if one or more mods disagree with your view


With this topic in specific, I would avoid discussions on healthcare-the political aspect that has caused the other threads to shut down is when the topic has gone into an argument about what healthcare systems in general are better.


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## jobo (Mar 22, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> The Black Death brought about the end of feudalism and brought in a system where you actually paid workers!





Tez3 said:


> The Black Death brought about the end of feudalism and brought in a system where you actually paid workers!


its a very good time to buy stuff second hand, all those folks on unpaid leave, needing cash, im watching the classifieds for a laptop,they have dropped 100 quid in a week, and i might get a mountain bike as well,,  and maybe a tv


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## Tez3 (Mar 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> its a very good time to buy stuff second hand, all those folks on unpaid leave, needing cash, im watching the classifieds for a laptop,they have dropped 100 quid in a week, and i might get a mountain bike as well,,  and maybe a tv



or they could sell their loo roll!




kempodisciple said:


> when the topic has gone into an argument about what healthcare systems in general are better.



It shouldn't have been an argument because it's obvious which is and in coming days we will see for sure. ( that's only half a joke)


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## jobo (Mar 22, 2020)

kempodisciple said:


> With this topic in specific, I would avoid discussions on healthcare-the political aspect that has caused the other threads to shut down is when the topic has gone into an argument about what healthcare systems in general are better.


it wasnt an argument about which is better, i never mentioned the uk system at all, it was a statement of fact about the US system, no politics just hard facts , are facts banned ?


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## Buka (Mar 22, 2020)




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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 22, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> or they could sell their loo roll!


I keep waiting for that. And the milk. Sombody out there has a LOT of milk they can't consume before it goes bad.


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## Tez3 (Mar 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> it wasnt an argument about which is better, i never mentioned the uk system at all, it was a statement of fact about the US system, no politics just hard facts , are facts banned ?




What arguments there were on there were not between the US and the UK, as Jobo says no mention was made of the UK system, it was Americans arguing between themselves.
It's also probably not a good idea for a mod to post on the same subject ie a 'political' post on the thread then his next post is locking the thread because of 'politics'.


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## dvcochran (Mar 22, 2020)

Xue Sheng said:


> We have been, well I have been (cuz I'm old) through a few pandemics already
> 
> HIV/AIDS Pandemic 2005-2012 (Peak)
> H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic: 2009-2010
> ...


I cannot imagine living in a city where 5,000 people a day were dying. 
We are extremely fortunate to live in the times we live in.


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## dvcochran (Mar 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> it wasnt an argument about which is better, i never mentioned the uk system at all, it was a statement of fact about the US system, no politics just hard facts , are facts banned ?


You direction is unbecoming. This thing is worldwide and it is quite easy to derive the same stats you mention about almost any country, including yours.
Just not cool at all.


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## jobo (Mar 22, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> You direction is unbecoming. This thing is worldwide and it is quite easy to derive the same stats you mention about almost any country, including yours.
> Just not cool at all.


ive no idea what your talking about ? which stats are those, the ones were i said how many us citizens were uninsured, i can gaurentee that doesnt apply in my country


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## dvcochran (Mar 22, 2020)

jobo said:


> ive no idea what your talking about ? which stats are those, the ones were i said how many us citizens were uninsured, i can gaurentee that doesnt apply in my country


Your media stats. I think you know this.


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## jobo (Mar 22, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Your media stats. I think you know this.


no ive not given any media stats or even said anything about the us media


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## granfire (Mar 22, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> I keep waiting for that. And the milk. Sombody out there has a LOT of milk they can't consume before it goes bad.


and eggs


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## jobo (Mar 23, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> I keep waiting for that. And the milk. Sombody out there has a LOT of milk they can't consume before it goes bad.


you can freeze milk, and eggs for that matter, though the shells break


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## jobo (Mar 23, 2020)

people are discussing " after" the problem is there is 7nlikely to be an after, at least until there is a vaccine, and that at least a year away or it mutates to become less harmful

the maths are, if no one does anything,  then it will effect the whole population of the world  in circa 60 days, China did a great deal  in the early days but all that did is reset the clock, till it got in to the general population elsewhere, then the 60 days started again.

as soon as the controls and shut downs are taken away, if there a single case remaining in the whole world, the 60 days starts again't and the controls need to return

as such it's difficult to know what the end game is, other than they have time to improve screening and improve care facilities. or they just say sod it and let it run its course, they can't shut the world down for 12 months or we will all starve

my sister has reported the panic buying has now extended to cat litter,  clearly the cats are socially  isolating as well


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## Tez3 (Mar 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> clearly the cats are socially isolating as well



Cats always socially isolate, they must be really annoyed their servants are home all day with them!
Just back from shopping at our local supermarket, they have an hour where the elderly and vulnerable can shop, they'd kept a whole load of basics for us in the café area, toilet rolls, eggs, bread potatoes, canned food, pasta, washing products, bleach etc. In and out in 20 minutes with enough to keep us going. I'm expecting the government letter today to say we must officially isolate, we've been 'distancing' but think we are being 'upgraded' to 'don't go out'


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## Dirty Dog (Mar 23, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> Cats always socially isolate, they must be really annoyed their servants are home all day with them!
> Just back from shopping at our local supermarket, they have an hour where the elderly and vulnerable can shop, they'd kept a whole load of basics for us in the café area, toilet rolls, eggs, bread potatoes, canned food, pasta, washing products, bleach etc. In and out in 20 minutes with enough to keep us going. I'm expecting the government letter today to say we must officially isolate, we've been 'distancing' but think we are being 'upgraded' to 'don't go out'


 
A lot of the shops in our area are doing this, too. I think it's a great idea. 
There's also a place in LA that is selling "Emergency Taco Kits" that consist of  five pounds of roasted chicken, five pounds of carne asada, a pint of red salsa, a pint of green salsa, tortillas, onions, cilantro, rice, beans, 30 eggs and 4 rolls of toilet paper.


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## Tez3 (Mar 23, 2020)




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## Dirty Dog (Mar 23, 2020)

Tez3 said:


>



We keep our carry guns in fast access safes on the bedside tables. They make a quiet beep when the buttons are pushed. I regularly hear this at night. It's Lucy, one of our cats. Trying to get a gun. Clearly, she has murder in mind.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> you can freeze milk, and eggs for that matter, though the shells break


That's true - I've never actually tried, but I wonder if it would separate when frozen and thawed. I suspect you can't freeze it in the gallon plastic jug without risking it splitting, but they could get around that.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 23, 2020)

Tez3 said:


> Cats always socially isolate, they must be really annoyed their servants are home all day with them!
> Just back from shopping at our local supermarket, they have an hour where the elderly and vulnerable can shop, they'd kept a whole load of basics for us in the café area, toilet rolls, eggs, bread potatoes, canned food, pasta, washing products, bleach etc. In and out in 20 minutes with enough to keep us going. I'm expecting the government letter today to say we must officially isolate, we've been 'distancing' but think we are being 'upgraded' to 'don't go out'


Markets here are doing the same thing, usually the first hour they're open. It's a great idea, and gets them in when the store is likely at its most sanitary.


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## Gerry Seymour (Mar 23, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> A lot of the shops in our area are doing this, too. I think it's a great idea.
> There's also a place in LA that is selling "Emergency Taco Kits" that consist of  five pounds of roasted chicken, five pounds of carne asada, a pint of red salsa, a pint of green salsa, tortillas, onions, cilantro, rice, beans, 30 eggs and 4 rolls of toilet paper.


Man, that is one "cradle to grave" taco package.


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## jobo (Mar 23, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> That's true - I've never actually tried, but I wonder if it would separate when frozen and thawed. I suspect you can't freeze it in the gallon plastic jug without risking it splitting, but they could get around that.


NO  the plastic container is more than robust enough to stretch a bit and there a little air room anyway and its just like milk when thawed, give it a shake`

eggs dont fair as well, but you can still make scrambled eggs with them


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## Tez3 (Mar 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> NO  the plastic container is more than robust enough to stretch a bit and there a little air room anyway and its just like milk when thawed, give it a shake`
> 
> eggs dont fair as well, but you can still make scrambled eggs with them



I've frozen milk before in the container, it's fine, as Jobo says just give it a shake.


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## dvcochran (Mar 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> no ive not given any media stats or even said anything about the us media


Then you willingly made up your own numbers and conclusions. Frankly, I am not which is worse. 
I am stopping here. 
I pray you and yours are safe and healthy.


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## dvcochran (Mar 23, 2020)

gpseymour said:


> That's true - I've never actually tried, but I wonder if it would separate when frozen and thawed. I suspect you can't freeze it in the gallon plastic jug without risking it splitting, but they could get around that.


I was wondering the same thing. Common sense says to go ahead and crack the eggs and put them in a freezer bag. I suppose you could do the same with milk but a more solid container would be easier. 
I have not tried it but surely the plastic gallon containers would crack.


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## jobo (Mar 23, 2020)

dvcochran said:


> Then you willingly made up your own numbers and conclusions. Frankly, I am not which is worse.
> I am stopping here.
> I pray you and yours are safe and healthy.


.are you having an embolism ? i haven't posted any stats about the US media, therefore i have absolutely no idea what your talking about


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## Tez3 (Mar 23, 2020)

jobo said:


> .are you having an embolism ? i haven't posted any stats about the US media, therefore i have absolutely no idea what your talking about




I don't believe that any stats about the media came up from any posts, I don't think the media was even mentioned. There was some questions about how many Americans were covered by health insurance, the numbers were questioned as either being more or less than the actual number but nothing about media stats.


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