# lol lets talk about ninjas :)



## chidarake (May 7, 2004)

I take ninjutsu  so bear with me mmm k.bet you cant guess what my name means in japanese!


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## ShaolinWolf (May 8, 2004)

Chidarake = something about a mistake?

Cheerful Mistake?

Or....

Mistaken Energy or force?

Mistake power?

Powerful mistake?


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## Don Roley (May 9, 2004)

"Mess of blood." That was simple.

Chi= blood. Darake- "full of" in a negative sense. "Lousy with" may be a good translation. I frequently talk about how the honbu is "gaijin darake" at certain times.

But since you practice Konigun ninjutsu, which was created by and American and has no links to Japan, you should not worry too much about the Japanese language or anything Japanese. Read the link that was posted in response to this thread you started and realize that much of what you are being told about Japan and its langauge probably does not have much basis in fact.


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## r.severe (May 10, 2004)

But since you practice Konigun ninjutsu, which was created by and American and has no links to Japan, you should not worry too much about the Japanese language or anything Japanese. 


Donny... this is a very powerful as well as straight forward message. What on earth !
I would even second that statement...
But what if their teacher had trained in some type of ninjutsu in a past life.. or even them selves ?
Hey...

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 10, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> But what if their teacher had trained in some type of ninjutsu in a past life.. or even them selves ?



Well Ralphie,
I am not going to touch the idea of training in a past life.  But I think that coming to Japan to train in ninjutsu is only a good idea if you can control your ego enough to actually learn instead of posture and preen. There are many people who do not show up to Japan or encourage their students to do so because they are so controlled by their egos that they can not admit to themselves that there is always something new they can learn. They give excuses, but stay safe in their own countries.

Hatsumi got a certificate from Takamatsu saying that he was master of Togakure ryu ninjutsu _very_ early on in his training. He did not let it go to his head and showed up whenever he could to gain more knowledge from Takamatsu before he died. Contrast that with the type of person who spends far less time training every week under a master before starting their own martial art style with a pretty title like "soke" or "professor."


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## r.severe (May 10, 2004)

But I think that coming to Japan to train in ninjutsu is only a good idea if you can control your ego enough to actually learn instead of posture and preen.

Donny,  I couldn&#8217;t agree more if you are a beginner with little or no experience in life as well as warrior arts.
From my visit in 1992 I stayed 30 days. I visited and train almost everyday. Some of the days twice. I not only trained in the Bujinkan Arts while I was there but also in others arts.
Did I take home anything new? Yes. Lots of wonderful experiences in another land and people. But warrior training, I can&#8217;t say I got much out of the Bujinkan training while I was there. I did get a lot from the Shooto.
I did enjoy my visit as well as my conversations with all the Japanese while I was there. It was worth the visit because I didn&#8217;t pay for it. If I would have paid for it&#8230; I would say it was not worth the visit for what I got out of it in return. I don&#8217;t mean this in disrespect towards any of the very nice people who I trained under and with. It was just way way to much BS for my experience.
I did enjoy training with Hatsumi sensei. Many training with him was in the kukishinden ryuha, Togakure ryuha and the Shinden Fudo ryuha. This is what I asked for after he requested me to inform him of what I wanted those 4 weeks. Sure.. fun and lots of laughs. 
For anyone&#8217;s ego or fear&#8230;
I cannot speak for anyone else.
For me everyday is a learning process.
Change is a flow in everyone&#8217;s life regardless of who they are.
I mainly watch the tapes I have of Japanese training as well as worldwide teachers and of course the taikai and daikomyosai ones..
For me..
I can&#8217;t say they are good or bad.
But I&#8217;m in search of what I would call &#8220;progressive&#8221; change daily.
What is a wonderful and almost perfect cut one day might such another day.
I found that the stop and go.. stop and go.. training of the Bujinkan style of training is not my style.. so I do &#8216;ralph&#8217; style of training through the Bujinkan arts. 
Is it right or wrong&#8230; good question, I can&#8217;t answer that one.
Who cares..
What is important is what works for the person you are asking to follow you to the mat or to the post.
I&#8217;m sure Hatsumi sensei and Takamatsu sensei relationship was wonderful.
And the passing of license one to another.
I&#8217;m not Hatsumi sensei or Takamatsu sensei.
And I don&#8217;t really find the license a issue with effectiveness on the battlefield or street.
And for sure in helping others in their search for happiness.
And for starting their own style&#8230; of martial arts..
I don&#8217;t believe any style can be &#8216;started&#8217; unless there is a new type of human being&#8230; being developed.
We all have a basic two arms, two legs and a head.. with a trunk. 

As for making up some system of ninjutsu without being trained in or have direct link to the source.. we agree on that.

Japan or no Japan...?

A pit bull is a pit bull.. it does not need any specail place to be to be a pit bull.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 11, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> I found that the stop and go.. stop and go.. training of the Bujinkan style of training is not my style.. so I do ralph style of training through the Bujinkan arts.



It is kind of sad that you never reached a level above that type of training in Japan. In my experience, the Japanese will only teach that way until you gain the basics and are able to move in the right direction. At the point where you get all the individual pieces together correctly, then you try to make them work together in a free, flowwing style.

It is kind of sad that the Japanese seem to have thought the you had not yet gotten to that level in your skill and had to work in the manner you did to correct your bad habits.


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## r.severe (May 11, 2004)

It is kind of sad that you never reached a level above that type of training in Japan. 

Donny, I believe you should take a step back and ask a simple question and not assume you have some small bit of knowledge of what I have or do not have in martial knowledge or skills. Not to mention living skills too.
If put the way &#8216;you&#8217; are putting it&#8230; I&#8217;m lost and confused and have no idea what I&#8217;m saying I experienced.
Well this sounds pretty stupid to me even coming from you.
I will not assume you are thinking or saying this.
I will ask, are you saying I didn&#8217;t experience what I said I experienced in Japan with the Bujinkan teachers and members?
And if so what proof do you have of this statement you are making?

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## r.severe (May 11, 2004)

In my experience, the Japanese will only teach that way until you gain the basics and are able to move in the right direction. At the point where you get all the individual pieces together correctly, then you try to make them work together in a free, flowing style.

Donny, I would say either I&#8217;m blind and didn&#8217;t see any of this stop and go method being applied by 100% of the Japanese teachers in Japan and well for that matter in the USA too&#8230;and on 100&#8217;s of video tapes&#8230; or maybe I&#8217;m not blind and have no idea then and have not been show or seen any thing of value because I suck so bad no one will show me skills that are to advanced.. or cannot see them on these 100&#8217;s of tapes because I&#8217;m not experienced enough to understand them.
I wish to know what is your opinion?
Blind or just not experienced enough to understand the flow?
Which?

Now please lets not put aside the many conversations with the many Japanese members of the Bujinkan in the dojo and out of the dojo for that month about the training and the skills they were being trained in.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## r.severe (May 11, 2004)

It is kind of sad that the Japanese seem to have thought the you had not yet gotten to that level in your skill and had to work in the manner you did to correct your bad habits.

Now Donny, you know better.

This is a joke. ha ha ha 

Explain the video tapes from 1986 to 2004 of the Bujinkan methods I have...
They don't lie..
Well they might...
I can see how the tapes would 'hold' back information and passing of skills...

Strange..

Or maybe it is a ploy.. to play out some agenda again..
Lets.. ponder that..


ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 11, 2004)

My my Ralphie, you have been busy.

All I am stating is what I have seen and experienced while here in Japan. You seem to have taken it rather badly.

And yes, in my experience only the lower level people need to have their stuff go in the stop and go manner you describe being part of your training. You get all the individual pieces down before you start making them flow. Go too quick into flow (Nagare) and your practice instills those bad habits deeper. Thus, some Japanese tend to show things in a very precise manner with a lot of pauses in the process to insure that the angles, etc are all in place.

But then, you have to make it flow. My teacher talks a lot about flow and its importance. I have even seen one t-shirt that says, "got nagare?" on it. 

So if you get the basics down, there is little need to start and stop during training. In my experience, there are few people who actually have the basics down very well. It looks like the Japanese felt you were not quite at that level.

And again, that is just based on my years of experience living in Japan and training on a weekly basis with a teacher who knows me and will point out the mistakes I can not see for myself.


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## r.severe (May 11, 2004)

"got nagare?" 

How catchy... groovy....
I've watched poker players with flow... they never been to Japan..

Not much to add.. you seem to have it all under control..

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## r.severe (May 12, 2004)

Donny, I believe after reading this agian you have missed the point... you said, "It looks like the Japanese felt you were not quite at that level."

No, that was not it.. or maybe so.. but it wasn't 'they'.. it was me thinking they were at such a lower level...
The training was so poor and the contact was void of realistic nature...

I'm sure you have read the MANY post on my trip to Japan and what I felt and experienced.. on other forums..
So why go throuth it all again..

Truth is...
training there was very weak.. and very unrealistic in nature... inside the BK..

Yes, I'm most likely missing something.. of course..
Maybe it was a bad month for everyone there..
Hey the mood wasn't just right or something..
Never the less..
Excuses..

I had none..

Donny.. it would be best if you didn't try to invent excuses for me or anyone else..
Just be real..
Maybe there is a REAL reason why no videoing... ????

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 12, 2004)

Don Roley said:
			
		

> There are many people who do not show up to Japan or encourage their students to do so because they are so controlled by their egos that they can not admit to themselves that there is always something new they can learn. *They give excuses, but stay safe in their own countries.*



One of the greatest excuses I have heard these types of people use is that the training in Japan is so low level that they can do better!!! Strange how they use the Bujinkan name and post in Bujinkan forums while thinking that they have nothing more to learn from a trip to see the head of the Bujinkan. Wayne L. Roy used this excuse, along with Robert Bussey IIRC. But they are nto the only ones.


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## ShaolinWolf (May 12, 2004)

I was just wondering...why did you give me a negative point for not getting the right answer?...Someone gave me a negative point on my Rep for my one post in this thread...


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## r.severe (May 12, 2004)

Originally Posted by Donny,
There are many people who do not show up to Japan or encourage their students to do so because they are so controlled by their egos that they cannot admit to themselves that there is always something new they can learn. They give excuses, but stay safe in their own countries.

Hey Donny, are you really saying I am giving you or anyone else for that matter an excuse about not going back to Japan right now? And do you feel this is an excuse because I fear for safety or something like that?
I don&#8217;t encourage anyone to waste money or time doing things like travel or player poker. Do you?
I spend more time helping human beings with family and personal problems. What can traveling somewhere do for them?
Instead of making immature statements about travel Donny why not put here in writing what it has done for you or what you feel it can do for others?



Originally Posted by Donny,
One of the greatest excuses I have heard these types of people use is that the training in Japan is so low level that they can do better!!! 

Well Donny I feel they might have a very good point.
But then again what does &#8220;better&#8221; mean?
In what regards?



Originally Posted by Donny,
Strange how they use the Bujinkan name and post in Bujinkan forums while thinking that they have nothing more to learn from a trip to see the head of the Bujinkan. 

Hey Donny, I believe every action&#8230; through sanmitsu can have enlightenment. How about you?
But on the other hand I also feel going to Japan for me.. was great. Look how I have matured and improved.


Originally Posted by Donny,
Wayne L. Roy used this excuse, along with Robert Bussey IIRC. But they are nto the only ones.

You know Donny&#8230;. I don&#8217;t know much about them.. not my business.
I have seen Robert Bussey&#8217;s tapes.. they are really good in terms of effective means of self-protection and other martial means. I would have him watch my back anytime during a fight.
Japan has a very good place for those wanting ranking in a paper dragon fighting method&#8230;.
You can get that on the mat..
Anywhere.. now can&#8217;t you Donny?

Why not post some good points about Japan.. like the food.. the women.. and maybe about the martial training there...
Why are you so stuck on the BS of who's who and what's what...
who cares..

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 12, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> Hey Donny, are you really saying I am giving you or anyone else for that matter an excuse about not going back to Japan right now? And do you feel this is an excuse because I fear for safety or something like that?



Did I somehow mention that you were not safe in Japan? I really can not see how you got that from what I wrote.

But on reflection, maybe there is a reason why you are thinking about your safety in Japan. If you look at this page you get the impression that you are trying to intimidate me.



> I can't wait till April when I can deal with him face to face in Japan... he's really going to look like a fool with me standing next to him.. real close to him... I can't wait to walk up to him and get him to train with me... LOL.. he'll run and hide..LOL..
> Anyone else going to be there too?


But I did not react in the way you seem to have expected me to. Next thing I know, you are not coming to Japan and making excuses.

They are very nice excuses, and I am sure you can write about them for a long time. But they are excuses. And you made a big show of how you were coming to Japan, but then backed out. That is just the facts. And I was so looking forward to sitting down with you and Hatsumi and translating a lot of the complaints you have made about him on the internet and let him answer your concerns.


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## r.severe (May 12, 2004)

I see Donny, you avoid the questions again...
Same old agenda Donny..


Donny you stated, "And I was so looking forward to sitting down with you and Hatsumi and translating a lot of the complaints you have made about him on the internet and let him answer your concerns."

Ha ha ha . Donny you are so immature...
I would already have a translater with me.. If I chose to visit Japan soon or even again.
Why would I use someone like you?
That's funny.

And what complaints would I have with the Bujinkan?
I feel the Bujinkan already knows it's weakness and problems....
A few already posted on this forum.. and you have posted about them...
I have no complaints about the Bujinkan...
I'm not concerned with the Bujinkan in my daily or monthly life Donny... most likely like you are.
And for that matter you must feel there are some if not many complaints in the Bujinkan to bring this up Donny... and why do you feel that way?
Why not talk to someone who cares about your feelings Donny?

Now complaints about Hatsumi sensei...
You're way off...
So far off..
This lets me know you don't even have a clue.

ok
ralph severe, kamiyama


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## r.severe (May 12, 2004)

Donny.. Donny.. you are so immature.."They are very nice excuses, and I am sure you can write about them for a long time." 

Oh Donny... what excuses do you have?

And this Donny, "But they are excuses. And you made a big show of how you were coming to Japan, but then backed out."

I didn't keep my plans to travel this spring because of a friend having troubles.. and I wouldn't waste my time if he didn't wish to go or couldn't go. Now facts.. those are the facts... WASTE of my time otherwise..Donny. 

Yes Donny, "That is just the facts."

What facts Donny.. what on earth can you have in your fantasy banks now?
You post without facts and mainly lie or twist things for your own laugh..
You haven't posted anything I've ever seen that did anyone any good at all...
Give it a break...

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## Don Roley (May 13, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> And what complaints would I have with the Bujinkan?
> I feel the Bujinkan already knows it's weakness and problems....
> A few already posted on this forum.. and you have posted about them...
> I have no complaints about the Bujinkan...



Oh, but you should always face the person you have complaints about and tell them, rather than stay in your own country and safe behind a keyboard.

I wanted to give you a chance of telling Hatsumi to his face the many things you have written about him on the internet. You seem rather less than eager to get into that situation.

Well, whatever excuse you want to give, you have backed out from the chance to see me here in Japan. You seem more satisfied with staying where you are and attacking me from behind a key board with your comments about me lying and such. Of course you can't provide examples like I do of your promises to come to Japan.

As always, you give us a certain amount of amusement with your antics.


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## Don Roley (May 13, 2004)

r.severe said:
			
		

> You post without facts and mainly lie or twist things for your own laugh..



You know Ralphie, maybe you should apologize to me or provide some sort of link and proof that I "lie or twist things" as you say.

You forget, you can't get away with things here like you are used to elsewhere. Making accusations like that and not backing them up is not part of the rules here. If you could back them up, fine. But you and I both know that _I_ am not the one with the problems with the truth. I know that you can not post a single incident to back up what you are accusing me of.

So, maybe you should apologize to me right now.


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## Deaf (May 13, 2004)

No disrespect intended to either of you, but could this thread either be closed or taken to PM?  It is getting kind of old.


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## r.severe (May 13, 2004)

Donny, 
My conversations with Hatsumi sensei were recorded.
I have well over 16 hours on tape.
You have no idea or what you are talking about as usual in regards to personal business between Hatsumi sensei and myself.
A ploy by you to act out your agenda of immature BS.
My business with Hatsumi sensei has nothing to do with you or anyone else.
This is more or less like the Jukokai ordeal.
Rod shihan business is not with you or anyone else when it comes to sensei.
It is simple, you are no fighter or warrior.
You are a paper tiger hiding in Japan behind a key board.
Yes, I see you are trying to use that against me.. LOL..
Good luck..
My rep with effective combat skills are well known and public.
My knowledge of the ryuha in the Bujinkan as well as other Japanese arts are also well known as well as public.
You?
Nothing.

You never go to the post or put yourself outside the safety of your own computer.
Now that it a fact from our past couple of years sparring over truth and rightfulness on the computer Donny.
You cannot tell a lie there on that subject now can you?

Donny, apologize ?
Are you joking?

I will not respond to anymore of your BS on this thread.

Till next time.

ralph severe, kamiyama


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## heretic888 (May 13, 2004)

> My business with Hatsumi sensei has nothing to do with you or anyone else.
> This is more or less like the Jukokai ordeal.
> Rod shihan business is not with you or anyone else when it comes to sensei.
> It is simple, you are no fighter or warrior.
> ...



*blinks* Wow. When I read this, I was actually left speechless.


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## Seig (May 13, 2004)

This is the last official warning.

Take your disagreement offline.

SEIG

MT ADMIN


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## Cryozombie (May 13, 2004)

Seig said:
			
		

> This is the last official warning.
> 
> Take your disagreement offline.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU!  :asian:


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