# Forms Training.....



## Goldendragon7 (Mar 16, 2002)

What are some of the different ways you use to train forms?


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 16, 2002)

I often like to practice my forms blindfolded, I find it is great for the balance and for my spatial orientation.  It really builts your concentration and confidence to be able to do the form with out looking.

With the dictionary set of forms I like to do them forward and see if I can do them backwards.  This allows me to find the flaws in my motion.  It is a challenge and you really get to explore the mechanics of every move this way.


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## D.Cobb (Mar 17, 2002)

I like to practise in wierd or unusual places, like shopping centres or elevators. I find then, that i don't get stuck if our instructor has us start from a different position.

--Dave:asian:


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## Klondike93 (Mar 17, 2002)

I've never really thought of doing them any way other than just the way I was shown. Is there something I'm missing by not experimenting with doing them in a different way?

:asian:


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## Rainman (Mar 17, 2002)

Somtimes I use weights on ankles and wrists.  It is usefull when I am feeling lathargic and when they come off I am able to speed back up to a normal pace.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 17, 2002)

Liveing in a wooded area I like to practice outside, in the woods,or on the uneven terrain of the side of a mountian.
Shadow


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## Kirk (Mar 17, 2002)

So is the general advice here to add resistance or difficulty to
your forms when you practice them?


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## Sigung86 (Mar 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *So is the general advice here to add resistance or difficulty to
> your forms when you practice them? *



The original ideas of forms, prior to Kenpo, as it were, was to have a way to remember the moves of the system, and to simulate fighting conditions when you were not in ... ahhh. fighting conditions (sans partner).

The traditions of Kenpo tend to dictate that we owe it to ourselves, and the system to be thinking warriors (if you'll allow me that euphemism).  So, once you have taken the forms and learned them in their basic format, it behooves you to work with them in different modalities.  Long Four, for instance, done with weights on the ankles and hands, or done in a total mirror image.

If you would like to see just a sample of what this does to your mind set, and if you have hair long enough to part, try parting it on the other side for a week.  It's amazing that such a small thing can make a difference in the way you perceive your surroundings.
Or, if you don't have the length of hair to do that ... Pick something else that you do on a daily basis, that is, an ingrained pattern.  Change how you do it for a week.  It will make minor conscious changes... Nothing major, no big enlightenment, but you might be surprised at what you perceptions.

Dan


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 17, 2002)

Well that's good!  That's how we learn.  Let me share a few methods of training that has been very successful for me and over a hundred plus students that have taken State and International Championships and developed just good plain Kenpo skills with.  Consider some of the following.......

  1) Slow Motion Training 
      The intention of this method is to increase the understanding
      and technical "form" within the set. 
      Perform the form or set extremely slow, and place emphasis 
      on the exact execution of each movement.  Do not "skim" over 
      areas which may seem insignificant or vague.  Carefully 
      examine each movement for  a awareness, execution, and 
      form.

  2) Isolation Training 
      Here the intention is to separate the upper  body movements
      (exact blocking and arm actions) from the lower body 
      movements (stance and footwork) and examine each in great 
      detail. 

      UPPER BODY
      Perform the set at medium speed with concentration on the 
      exact execution and form of all hand, arm, shoulder, head, 
      and upper postures only.

      LOWER BODY
      Perform the set exactly the same as above except place your 
      hands in your belt or on your hips so as not to be tempted to 
      use them.  Isolate only on the footwork and stances.

  3) Tension Training 
      This method teaches overall body strength and breathing.
       The set is performed very, very slowly as in Slow motion 
       Training except you will now be "tensing", your entire body 
       isometricly.  Once you begin "tensing", do not relax until 
       the set is complete.  While in "tense" mode you must breath 
       independently of your physical actions.  to benefit totally your 
       must exert a maximum effort.

  4) Power Training 
       The intention of POWER TRAINING emphasizes the 
       development of maximum power in all movements.  

       As the set is performed, execute each movement 
       with  "Maximum Power and Speed", even though that 
       particular segment of the set does not require full force.  
       Movements should be powerful but transitions smooth.

  5) Torque Training 
       The intention here is to increase your "torqueing awareness" 
       and focus.

       The set is performed rather slowly with medium speed.  At 
       the completion of each movement "torque" the move and 
       tense the entire body.

  6) Speed Training 
       The main insight here is to expand memory and eliminate 
       hesitation.

       Perform the set as fast as possible without the slightest 
       hesitation.  Form, power, balance, and other considerations 
       will be of little importance in this method.  Only speed and 
       continuity are  stressed.

  7) Blind Training 
       Here we study and focus on Balance so as to enhance 
       stability and increase some of your other senses.

       Perform the set at normal speed, power, form, etc. with your
       eyes closed or blindfolded.  Your equilibrium in part comes 
       from the association of your eyes to vertical objects.  Without 
       eyes you now must depend and train your other senses!!

  8) Competition Training 
      This prepares you more completely for Tournament or 
      Competition from the preliminaries to the finish in top form 
      and formalities.

      Perform the set as if in an actual competition.  Cover the 
      entire event from the bow in, seating, competition call, ring 
      entry, set announcement, set performance, release bow, ring 
      exit, and reseating.

  9) Belt Test Training 
      The intention of Belt  Test Training is to prepare for belt 
      examination for a higher rank.

      Perform the set as if in Competition Training except eliminate 
      all the dramatics and formalities and concentrate only  on the 
      proper execution and form of the set.

10) Realistic Training
      Here the intention stresses effectiveness with intention.  

      Perform the set  by  individual techniques imagining actual 
      combative situations.  Execute the technique accordingly, 
      seeing clearly in your mind where you are striking the 
      opponent and how.  Do not worry about how you look -- 
      rather how effective you  were.

11) Mental Conditioning Training 
      The intention of Mental Conditioning Training is to create 
      greater mental concentrative capabilities with conscious 
      control and inner harmony.

      Perform the set any way you like -- fast, slow, hard, soft, 
      etc.  -- but with a clear blank mind.  Mentally you don't think 
      of anything -- not the set, parts of the set, your lunch, your 
      work, nothing.  You may choose to alter the above method by 
      concentration on one (1) specific thing, but you must not 
      break concentration or let your mind wonder from your choice.

12) Other Training Methods.... etc. 

There are a few intro views to  chew on for a bit.

:asian:


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## Robbo (Mar 17, 2002)

That was awesome GD7.

Don't forget a little thing like practising your form in different directions. If you're so used to seeing yourself in the dojo mirror and you get to a grading in a different location it could really mess you up. Do your form starting normally (North), then south, east, west. Also work one form only and set up a series of ways to do it. Take generously from GD7's suggestions. Then save your best for last and blast the form PROPERLY at the end. Great way to end the workout on a positive note.

Thanks,
Rob


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 18, 2002)

Glad you liked it......... Don't worry this is just the warm up.... 

In different environments.......ie
cold with few clothes on
cold with too many clothes on
hot with a heavy coat 
on unevenground
in a pool
barefoot on rocks
against live opponents from all angles


I just wanted to get you thinking......... those that know me don't want me to come to class with a full tank of gas...... lol

:asian:


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## Sigung86 (Mar 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Dennis ....

When is the last time it got cold in your hometown???:rofl: 

Dan


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## Yari (Mar 18, 2002)

There's some great inputs here!

As an ekstra:

I sometimes do them backwards, to make sure that I've got all the details. Somethimes I change the "beat"/timing, and it gives me a greater understanding of why it's done that way.

But it's not something I do often, just once in a while.

Ither times at classes I get the pupils to stand differently, some facing northe, some west, some east, and some in between. That way the don't get use to see what do do from the guy besides them or infront of them and so on...


/Yari


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Sigung86 _*
> Dennis ....
> When is the last time it got cold in your hometown???:rofl:
> Dan *




Well, lets see here, just this winter it got down to about 75 degrees....... man I had to put on a shirt.  It was brisk!

Gimme slack!
:hammer:


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## DartingMAce (Mar 18, 2002)

I run the forms, up to short 3, both right side and left side... Also i run the forms hands only from the Horse stance.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 18, 2002)

Why not after short on both sides?


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## RCastillo (Mar 21, 2002)

:asian: Thanks , Mr. C., for dominating the whole thing. I'm sitting here with all my ideas, and no where to go.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 21, 2002)

Think deeper young Cain.  

You siesta you lose.

:asian:


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## RCastillo (Mar 21, 2002)

It's like going to the buffet table, with high rank in front, all the good dishes are gone, and nothing left put scraps!:soapbox:


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## Sigung86 (Mar 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *It's like going to the buffet table, with high rank in front, all the good dishes are gone, and nothing left put scraps!:soapbox: *



Ricardo,

Ya gotta push a little harder and get that rank so you can get to the front of the line and get all the fried chicken you want!:rofl: 

Dan


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 23, 2002)

but he really needs to concentrate on the salad section with me.

:asian:


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## RCastillo (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *but he really needs to concentrate on the salad section with me.
> 
> :asian: *



 That is not cool


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 23, 2002)

training aid thats all.


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 23, 2002)

Little animals eat salads, big animals eat the little animals.  I'll avoid the salads.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 23, 2002)

I remember you as a trim lean mean Kenpo Machine.

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *I remember you as a trim lean mean Kenpo Machine.
> 
> :asian: *



My uniform has always hid a certain amount of me. Iused to be very tiny, and over time I have filled out to around 180 lbs, not too big, just enough to have that little extra stability when needed.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 24, 2002)

Now lets see that machine whip through the 4 or the T/C  with ease!


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *Now lets see that machine whip through the 4 or the T/C  with ease!
> 
> *



Actually my speed has not decreased, I just move with more power, before I was too thin for my own good.  Besides its all about tailoring to the individual, this individual just isn't tiny anymore.

I have only added about 10 lbs since we met so my uniform must havebeen hiding it all.


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## Klondike93 (Mar 24, 2002)

Not knowing the Tiger/Crane form, is it longer than form 4?
More complex as well?


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 24, 2002)

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 24, 2002)

If done properly Tiger and Crane actually is done Tiger section, Crane section and then Tiger section again, it is quite long and intense.  Especially the jumping and quick movements the explosive areas.


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## Klondike93 (Mar 24, 2002)

Anybody have it written down any where on the web?

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Klondike93 _
> 
> *Anybody have it written down any where on the web?
> 
> :asian: *



Not that I have seen although I haven't really looke that hard.  although if I had to type it I owuld say it would be a good 50 pages in length if you were to do it right.


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 24, 2002)

but soon.

check here from time to time.
http://kenponet.tripod.com/curriculum/forms_sets.html

:asian: 
ps. no guarantee they are correct as I would do them but they do have many written to some extent.


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## Klondike93 (Mar 24, 2002)

I see why you get paid the big bucks, I forgot about them.

:asian:


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 24, 2002)

Now if we could get GD7 motivated to start working on his video series maybe we wouldn't have look all over to find this stuff.

hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge say no more.....


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## RCastillo (Mar 24, 2002)

:rofl: Are you kidding, he hasn't even started his book, called"Kenpo Tools." You might as well forget about the videos, they ain't coming out in your lifetime!


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## Rob_Broad (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RCastillo _
> 
> *:rofl: Are you kidding, he hasn't even started his book, called"Kenpo Tools." You might as well forget about the videos, they ain't coming out in your lifetime! *



I hope this book will be realistic and not a bunch of names of people who have attitudes.


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## Klondike93 (Mar 24, 2002)

GD, be sure to turn the spellchecker on :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 


:asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 24, 2002)

I better start checking !
:anic:


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## ikenpo (May 5, 2002)

We've done the forms as if we were in a small square (1.5 x 1.5) and couldn't move out side of it. It makes you adjust your footwork a lot. 

We've also done forms inbetween sparring rounds with the gear still on and mouthpiece in. That was a lot of fun.

jb


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## RCastillo (May 5, 2002)

Hey Mr. JBugg!

Get rid of that scary face on the side, I'm liable to have nightmares!

Thanks


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## ikenpo (May 5, 2002)

That's the smile I give my victims, I mean opponents. If I olny had it as a gif that started foaming at the mouth...Now that would be cool.

Gary said he was going to try to start coming by and doing some sparring with you. That should be cool.

jb


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## RCastillo (May 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> 
> *That's the smile I give my victims, I mean opponents. If I olny had it as a gif that started foaming at the mouth...Now that would be cool.
> 
> ...



Well, sparring with Gary ,should be fun, but I'm afraid of heights, but then again, I should be able to duck under all his hands


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## Seig (May 6, 2002)

I have quite a few bamboo shafts that I got cheaply from Pier 1 imports, they are about 6 foot long.  What I tend to do is make a box on the floor out of four ofthem and make my students to their techs or forms in the box.  I'm trying to explain to them that they may not always have the option of taking up 20 feet to execute something.


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## tonbo (May 6, 2002)

Excellent rundown of ways to practice forms (as if I expected any less....eeesh.)!!

Some additional things that I have used in the past:

Five Animals Forms :  Using the various attributes for the animals, run through a form as each animal.  For example:  Do the form "tiger" style, emphasizing the power of the strikes.  Don't worry about speed, stability or other concerns like that--think only tiger, only power, only attack.

Do the form "snake" style:  concentrate on flow and on being fluid in movement.  

"Dragon" style:  compbine the animals as much as possible; work on blending speed, power, fluidity, stances, as much as you can--and emphasize breathing.

(This is really simplistic, but it gets the idea across, I hope!!  I know there is much more to each animal, but you get the general idea).

Also, we have done "Forms in Chaos" at our school:  You have a circle of students around the one doing forms.  When he/she is ready, the student in the center does the salutation of the form we are working on and goes to it, any way they want to perform it (working tool/target, speed, etc.).  The students in the circle can shout, wave their hands and feet, and generally try to distract the student doing the form as long as they 1) don't touch the student and 2) aren't abusive or crude in their words or actions.  If the student in the center breaks focus or stops the form, they have to start over.

I have also done form "movie" style or "musical style":  put some music on while you are working the form, and try to keep up with the "mood" and tempo of the music.  I call this "movie" style sometimes, because I feel like this is one of those scenes in a MA movie...

A final one that my instructor is fond of:  We run through a form facing front.  Then he has us turn to different directions and run it again (corners, to the rear, etc.).  Then he points us in different directions and has us run the form by the set (or by the move, for short forms).  At some random point, he *may* say, "Okay, finish it up", at which point we can do the rest of the form.

Heh....just a few of the methods I have played with...

Peace--


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## ikenpo (May 6, 2002)

Ok Richardo,

Just for you.

jb :asian:


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

You actually took off your icon for Ricardo!  Man there must be something going on between Huston and Corpus that I don't know about.......... Hey Gary.... be careful with these two  :rofl: 

:asian:


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## ikenpo (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *You actually took off your icon for Ricardo!  Man there must be something going on between Huston and Corpus that I don't know about.......... Hey Gary.... be careful with these two  :rofl:
> 
> :asian: *



Change is a good thing....Gary is my buddy. I've known longer than anyone around here I think. We met at Mr. Duffy's camp that one year and hung out the whole time.


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

That Icon looks like the little bugg getting mad at me........


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## RCastillo (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *You actually took off your icon for Ricardo!  Man there must be something going on between Huston and Corpus that I don't know about.......... Hey Gary.... be careful with these two  :rofl:
> 
> :asian: *



Be careful, Arizona is NEXT!:toilclaw:


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## ikenpo (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> 
> *That Icon looks like the little bugg getting mad at me........ *



lol...now that I look at it your right... 3 1/2 working on his basics. Getting him to remember the right and left thing is the hardest part right now..

But he has a mean square horse and can almost do the splits.


jb


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## Goldendragon7 (May 7, 2002)

soon "2" buggs to deal with!!
:asian:


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