# "The Color of Crime: Race, Crime and Violence in America."



## Archangel M (Feb 23, 2011)

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/ID/128178

I don't present this with any particular racial or political agenda, but I just came across it (even though it was back in 1999) and am sort of shocked that C-Span aired such a blunt and controversial presentation. Has anybody seen these stats before?

What I find more interesting than the obvious racial issue is the "statistical issue". The classification of "Hispanic" and how that skews data was something I had never heard of nor considered before.


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## granfire (Feb 23, 2011)

Holy Cow....


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## aedrasteia (Feb 23, 2011)

*New Century Foundation*

*From SourceWatch*

 		 			 			 									The *New Century Foundation*, founded November 1990 and based in Oakton, Virginia, is a "self-styled think tank that publishes a monthly journal and a Web site called _American Renaissance_.  Also hosts biannual conferences. The Foundation promotes  pseudoscientific and questionably researched and argued studies to  validate the superiority of whites."[1]
			 			 The Foundation is headed by Samuel Jared Taylor, "author of _Paved With Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary America_, a 1991 book that documented fundamental problems with U.S. policies on civil rights, crime and welfare. ... *But Mr. Taylor was criticized as an advocate of 'the new white racism' by conservative author Dinesh D'Souza, whose 1995 book The End of Racism reported many of the same racial problems Mr. Taylor had examined in his earlier book."[2]*


"Presenters at conferences have included Samuel Francis and Gordon Lee Baum of the Council of Conservative Citizens. Attendees have included Don Black, operator of the white supremacist Web site Stormfront, and National Alliance leader Kevin Alfred Strom.  Taylor has been a board member of the Council of Conservative Citizens,  and is on the advisory board and has contributed to the racist journal _Occidental Quarterly_."[3]


(1) source: Anti-Defamation League


Jared Taylor/American Renaissance                    
 				                     Jared  Taylor (also known as Samuel Jared Taylor)  founded The New Century Foundation,  a self-styled think tank known  primarily for _American Renaissance_, a white  supremacist  journal and companion Website. The journal, which Taylor edits, promotes  pseudoscientific studies  that attempt to demonstrate the intellectual  and cultural superiority of whites  and publishes articles on the  supposed decline of American society because of  integrationist social  policies. _American  Renaissance _generally avoids the crude  bigotry and stereotyping  characteristic of many other racist  publications and Taylor himself personally refrains  from anti-Semitism.  





*Born:* September, 1951
*Residence:* Oakton, Virginia 
*Organization:* The New Century Foundation 
*Publication:* _American Renaissance_ 
*Education: *B.A. Yale   University, 1973; 
                      M.S. Institute  of Political Studies, Paris,  1978
*Ideology:* Intellectualized white  supremacy    
*Books: *Author of _Paved With  Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary America _(1992)  and _Shadow of the Rising Sun: A Critical Review of the Japanese Miracle _(1983);  edited or contributed to various other books, including _Essential Writings  on Race _by Samuel Francis (2007), _Race and the American Prospect _(2006), _A Race Against Time: Racial Heresies for the 21st Century _(2003)  and _The Real American Dilemma: Race, Immigration, and The Future of America _(1998)  
*Affiliations:* Taylor is on the editorial advisory board of _Citizens Informer_, the newspaper  of the white supremacist Council  of Conservative Citizens, has contributed to _The Occidental Quarterly_ a racist journal, and has been a member of the Board of Directors of  the National Policy Institute, a racist think tank. 


Taylor promotes his views by  attacking racial, ethnic,  and religious diversity, which he calls one of the  most divisive  forces on the planet and therefore dangerous. Through speeches   delivered at the biennial American Renaissance conferences; books,  pamphlets,  and articles; and public appearances via mainstream venues,  including  television shows and universities, Taylor  promotes the idea  that racial segregation is natural and society is best  organized  along racially homogenous lines. He maintains ties to a variety of   racist organizations, publications, and individuals, both domestic and   international, and many of North Americas  leading intellectual racists  have written for _American Renaissance_ or  have addressed the biennial American Renaissance conferences.


(2) www.amren.com/index


(3) The End Of Racism by Dinesh d"Souza.   page 396 (I will add direct quote, it is lengthy but informative).



some additional information
hope this helps
A


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## Twin Fist (Feb 23, 2011)

blacks committ more crime per capita than whites.

is this news to ANYONE??


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## Nomad (Feb 23, 2011)

A little context makes things much clearer.


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## Archangel M (Feb 23, 2011)

But are the stats accurate? Are his sources reputable? More accurately is what he is saying about categorical number shuffling accurate? That point about "Hispanic" statistical adjusting was interesting.

I have to agree that his "tone" was somewhat "slanted" and bigotry and racism is not the path I want this thread to go, but when it comes to the issue of crime I think we need to have a clear picture of what the problem is. I have always subscribed to the belief that it's the "culture" not the "race" thats the issue. Put any race into the the same recipe of poverty, gangs, drugs and other influences and get the same results.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 23, 2011)

yeah, there isnt anything in black dna that makes them more violent, or criminal, it is black CULTURE that embraces, respects and looks up to criminals. Modern urban ghetto culture puts no value on education, or personal responsibility

this aint news, it is pretty much out there for anyone with the guts to admit it.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 23, 2011)

Its not true. Blacks are far more likely to be arrested than whites, but they aren't more criminal. This report is stupid.
Sean


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## Ken Morgan (Feb 23, 2011)

Poverty, unemployment, and a lack of education are greater factors in determining ones involvement in crime then any other.

There are parts of Eastern Europe that I would not venture into, where as parts of Africa Im sure are as safe as you can find anywhere else in the developed world.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 23, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> Its not true. Blacks are far more likely to be arrested than whites, but they aren't more criminal. This report is stupid.
> Sean




care to back that up with anything OTHER than wishfull thinking???

the NUMBERS disagree with you Slick. They do more crimes, per capita than whites do, by an order of magnitude.


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## Big Don (Feb 23, 2011)

Racism is racism whether it be a white guy in a silly sheet, or a black guy with a silly beret...


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## Archangel M (Feb 23, 2011)

Touch Of Death said:


> Its not true. Blacks are far more likely to be arrested than whites, but they aren't more criminal. This report is stupid.
> Sean



If you listen to the video the guy did have at least one valid point about that. Police don't just drive around and find arrests for violent crimes, it's not like we just grab the first person we see and say "lets charge this guy with armed robbery today". And it's not like we say "let this guy go from this homicide..hes white" either.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Feb 24, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> yeah, there isnt anything in black dna that makes them more violent, or criminal, *it is black CULTURE that embraces, respects and looks up to criminals.* Modern urban ghetto culture puts no value on education, or personal responsibility
> 
> this aint news, it is pretty much out there for anyone with the guts to admit it.


 
Really? I'm Black. Have a lot of Black family. Not a single one of them embraced, respected, or looked up to criminals. In fact, I'm a cop, which is the antithesis of respecting criminals. Know a lot of Black cops. None of them embrace, respect, or look up to criminals. 

You seem to associate Black culture with "urban ghetto culture". I know many, many, many Black people with B.A / B.S. degress and many others with advanced degrees. Many of them grew up in the "ghetto" to which you are referring. 

Did Martin Luther King Jr. embrace criminality, or place no value on education or personal responsiblity. What about all of the modern Black politicians, or Clarence Otis, Jr. (CEO of Darden Restuarants, owner of Red Lobster, Olive Garden and others), Kenneth C. Frazier (CEO of Merck and Co.), Kenneth Chenault (CEO and Chairman of American Expres).

I could go on and on, but I hope you get that point. 

Or were all of these people just "acting white". Well, let's examine that then, shall we.

Would you please tell me what Black culture consists of? I get so tired of hearing this. Black culture in America is as diverse as "white" culture. How about this. I will take, say, white Southern Rednecks and define that as "white culture", similarly to how you used a subculture of Black Americans to define "Black culture". In that case, white people are as uneducated, criminalistic, and lack responsibility as any person who you define as having "Black culture". 

Quite frankly, you have no idea what you are talking about.



> They do more crimes, per capita than whites do, by an order of magnitude.


 
You have no idea what order of magnitude means, do you.  Either that, or you don't have any idea as to the comparison of white and Black crime.


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## Archangel M (Feb 24, 2011)

The thing with this guys speech that belies my anecdotal experience was the "more black on white crime thing". I guess it depends on how he was presenting the data, but in my experience it seems like the bulk of offenses were black on black or white on white.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 24, 2011)

Archangel M said:


> The thing with this guys speech that belies my anecdotal experience was the "more black on white crime thing". I guess it depends on how he was presenting the data, but in my experience it seems like the bulk of offenses were black on black or white on white.



As time goes on the Black and white on Hispanic crimes seem to be on the rise. Especially on payday.


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## Sukerkin (Feb 24, 2011)

Come on now gentlemen, don't descend into the usual melee of knifing each other over broad-brush terms.

There is clearly a problem with a strong correlation between poverty and crime.  We get it over here in Britain in some of what are termed Council Sink Estates (places where they house many 'problem' families).  With no education to speak of and no prospect of climbing the 'legal' greased pole to success, many of them turn their back on the "mugs game" and make a fortune selling drugs ... tho' many of them die in the process of course, there seems to be a never ending supply of new recruits.

That's the problem we're discussing.  The fact that a high percentage of the equivalent demographic in the USA appears to be non-White is, whilst not an irrelavance, not pertinent to the cause of the problem.

Inequality of opportunity is where the real evil lies and even over here in 'socialist' Britain {} it's getting worse.  

I have said before that I reckon I was one of the last of the lower working class oiks who, by dint of the education offered, was able to climb away from my 'birth social tier' and become a 'professional' rather than an unskilled labourer.  Now I am no cleverer than my father, I just had opportunities that he did not and I seized them with both hands.  With the devaluation of the education available now, such an 'escape' is no longer as possible as it once was.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 24, 2011)

5-0,
i HATE dishonest people that, just because something doesnt apply to THEM think it isnt true of ANYONE.

yay for you, you beat the odds, but you known DAMNED good and well what I mean, and you know it is true.

EXCEPTIONS are just that, EXCEPTIONS

for every successful, educated, law abiding black person, there is a metric *** ton of the no job having, pants hung low, gangster wannabe

the numbers dont lie man.

happy for you, wish EVERYONE was like you, but you are the exception, not the rule.

same for me, from my family? from my nieghborhood? the fact that I dont have an arrest record makes me BY FAR the exception.

but here is the difference dude, I dont think i am the rule just cuz I did it, and i choose to surround myself with people LIKE ME.

Now i do think the trend is going towards people like you growing in numbers, and i think that is a good thing, clearly.

But I do not deny reality. No, it is not race, it is culture. It is poverty. It is lack of education. But it IS.

again, the numbers dont lie.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 24, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> 5-0,
> i HATE dishonest people that, just because something doesnt apply to THEM think it isnt true of ANYONE.
> 
> yay for you, you beat the odds, but you known DAMNED good and well what I mean, and you know it is true.
> ...


First of all, who you callin' slick, there NotSoSlick? Secondly you just pointed to the issue with this thread. The Fact that boths Blacks and the police are concentrated in the cities, it exposes more blacks per capita to the criminal justice system earlier than troubled white kids in the suburbs; so, yes the crime rate is higher, but for purely cultural and situational reasons. It you want to sit there feeling all superior then by all means. I can sit and laugh. I find it all very entertaining. 
Sean


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## elder999 (Feb 24, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> yay for you, you beat the odds, but you known DAMNED good and well what I mean, and you know it is true.
> 
> EXCEPTIONS are just that, EXCEPTIONS
> 
> ...


 
No, numbers don't lie.:



> Nationwide, the October 2008 unemployment rate for African Americans was 11.1%,[102] while the nationwide rate was 6.5%.[103]
> 
> In 2000, 47% of African Americans owned their homes. The poverty rate among African Americans has decreased from 26.5% in 1998 to 24.7% in 2004.[54] African Americans are the second largest consumer group in America with a combined buying power of over $892 billion currently and likely over $1.1 trillion by 2012.[88][89]


 
It would seem that the "no job having, pants hung low, gangster wannabe" is the EXCEPTION-numbers don't lie,man.....:lol:


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## Twin Fist (Feb 24, 2011)

GOOD Jeff, it SHOULD be the exception, and I HOPE IT IS and I hope it STAYS THAT WAY

but dont act like it doesnt exist, because it does, you know it, hell, EVERYONE knows it, people are just too damned scared to admitt it.

hell, i Wish EVERYONE was as educated and successful as you, but they aint, and pretending they are is a waste of time.

denial never fixed anything

the facts are the facts

more crime is committed by non whites than whites per capita. thats just a fact.

and ToD,
you need to back up Slick, i dont feel superior at all, i just feel honest. And i SAID< IN ENGLISH that it is cutural, NOT RACIAL or did you not bother to read that part?


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 24, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> GOOD Jeff, it SHOULD be the exception, and I HOPE IT IS and I hope it STAYS THAT WAY
> 
> but dont act like it doesnt exist, because it does, you know it, hell, EVERYONE knows it, people are just too damned scared to admitt it.
> 
> ...


Then what is your solution?


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## Twin Fist (Feb 24, 2011)

a shift in values.

mothers telling thier sons to go to school
women NOT putting up with the "playa's", women not settling for being a "baby momma"
men learning to be proud of good things
songs about raising your kids, not about "gettin paid"
Listen to more Bill Cosby and less Lil' Wayne
quit taking handouts
I could go on for days, but,  simply put, if you want out of the ghetto, get the ghetto out of you

the world will move aside for any man, of any color, that knows where he is going and is willing to work to get there.

I truely believe this


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 24, 2011)

So, more Bill Cosby less Rap. I'll tell 'em.
Sean


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## Twin Fist (Feb 24, 2011)

simplistic as it is, it is a great symbol of the problem.


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Feb 24, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> 5-0,
> i HATE dishonest people that, just because something doesnt apply to THEM think it isnt true of ANYONE.


 
So now I'm dishonest.  Nice.  



> yay for you, you beat the odds, but you known DAMNED good and well what I mean, and you know it is true.
> 
> EXCEPTIONS are just that, EXCEPTIONS
> 
> ...


 
No, I didn't beat the odds.  I did what most of the other Black people around me did.  It is you that have a skewed perception of Black people in America. 

And as Elder just showed you, the numbers contradict exactly what you are saying.  It is a statistical fact that the majority of crimes in *any *community are committed by a small number of people.   



> happy for you, wish EVERYONE was like you, but you are the exception, not the rule.


 
No, what you are doing is taking a personal perspective and making a broad-based application of it.  I am no more exceptional in this respect then most every Black person that I associate with.  There are thousands of Black college graduate every year.  There are many tens of thousands of Black small business owners, mid level managers, etc.




> Now i do think the trend is going towards people like you growing in numbers, and i think that is a good thing, clearly.
> 
> But I do not deny reality. No, it is not race, it is culture. It is poverty. It is lack of education. But it IS.


 
And, once again, you are conflating the "gangster" culture as being the Black culture.  What you fail to realize, or are intentionally ignoring, is that, if anything, it is a subset culture.  Once again, I could look at any negative subset culture of whites and say the same thing as you are.  

So, my suggestion is you do some actual research and learn something before you spout off at the mouth.


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## Sukerkin (Feb 25, 2011)

I was going to bring the sub-culture aspects of this up last night but was too tired to be cogent, so I am glad that Kenpo has highlighted it :tup:.

The part about the percentage of crime related to the percentage of the population that are criminal is also quite pertinent, especially given the drug motivated background to a lot of it. British police statistics reckon that something like ninety percent of the case-load is related to a known ten percent slice of the criminal population.

I'd also like to reiterate for people that even tho' spirited debate is to be encouraged, having a go at each other is not a productive method of exploring a topic.


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## Twin Fist (Feb 25, 2011)

5-0 Kenpo said:


> So, my suggestion is you do some actual research and learn something before you spout off at the mouth.




personal insults are a violation of the TOS Slick.

I have only one more thing to say to you,a nd i suspect it will be a waste of time, but honesty demands it

YOU are not everyone

I am not everyone

just because we did it, doesnt mean everyone does it

you are truley exceptional, but look at that word. The base of it is EXCEPTION

not the rule.

good day to you


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## 5-0 Kenpo (Feb 25, 2011)

Twin Fist said:


> personal insults are a violation of the TOS Slick.


 
Yes they are.  Of course, I don't think that you could possibly be saying that a suggestion that before you say something so completely inaccurate that you do your research first is an insult.

I think that, were you saying such a thing, that it would be a very difficult case to prove.  However, I think that calling a person a name (Slick), which usually has a negative conotation to the person being so called, to only those with whom you disagree, would be an easier case to make.



> I have only one more thing to say to you,a nd i suspect it will be a waste of time, but honesty demands it
> 
> YOU are not everyone
> 
> ...


 
Well, it is only going to be a waste of time because my wife keeps telling me that I need to be more humble, and am trying to heed her advise. 

However, I'm not exceptional.  I'm just a lowly public servant who has managed to take care of his family.  Like millions of others out there.


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## Touch Of Death (Feb 25, 2011)

Why did you start a racial thread complete with name calling? Are you daft?
Sean


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## Twin Fist (Feb 25, 2011)

i didnt start this thread.................


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## celtic_crippler (Feb 25, 2011)

*Source Watch *is a collaborative effort of the LIBERAL Center for Media and Democracy so I'm sure their "data" is a tad skewed and likely biased as well. 

I'm not actually "taking a side"... just saying, there's probably some truth in there. If it's important enough to you, I'm sure you can dig through the FBI statistics yourself.


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