# Bunkai equivalent in taekwondo



## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 26, 2008)

I have never heard of a definitive equivalent of Bunkai in taekwondo poomsae/hyung.  Are any of you familiar with an explicit concept of Bunkai, and if so, what is the word for it.

And if there is not one, has your dojang developed its own?

Thanks in advance,

Daniel


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## bluekey88 (Sep 26, 2008)

the term is "boon hae" I believe.  

Stuart Anslow (a MT member) has written a book abou tthe boon hae of the first few ITF forms.  I've heard good things abou tit and it's on my list of books to add to my MA library.

Peace,
Erik


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## miguksaram (Sep 26, 2008)

I feel that is something that is missing from Korean arts.  I would love to see KKW put that into their curriculum.  I enjoy doing it in my Shorei-ryu studies.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 26, 2008)

miguksaram said:


> I feel that is something that is missing from Korean arts. I would love to see KKW put that into their curriculum. I enjoy doing it in my Shorei-ryu studies.


That is my impression.  I would like to make Bunkai or _boon hae _a part of my curriculum when I am operating my own dojang.

Daniel


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## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 26, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> the term is "boon hae" I believe.
> 
> Stuart Anslow (a MT member) has written a book abou tthe boon hae of the first few ITF forms. I've heard good things abou tit and it's on my list of books to add to my MA library.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, when I googled Boon Hae, this is one of the links:

http://www.iainabernethy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000047

It is a boon hae seminar by none other than the very same Stuart Anslow.

Thank you Erik!  Now I have a correct term.

Daniel


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## MBuzzy (Sep 26, 2008)

Here is a thread in which this was discussed in depth.

A very quick summary..."As I said, bunseok, bunhae, haesul, and haeseok all have similar meanings; any of which could be a translation for the word Bunkai, depending on the specific idea you want to get across."  

From what I can tell, Bunseok and Bunhae are the two most commonly used terms.


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## astrobiologist (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm a TSD practitioner, mostly, and I'm still really beginning to understand form applications as they are taught in other systems.  For the most part, the Korean Martial Arts really lack a deep understanding of the movements in their forms.  Masters Jay S. Penfil (TSD) and Iain Abernethy (Wado Ryu) have been a true benefit to me in my current journey to understanding.

I use Japanese and Korean terminology when I teach.  I usually say "Bunkai", but I'm going to let my students know that the Korean is "Boon Hae" (Thanks!).

My suggestion: find a good teacher for bunkai/boonhae if you can.  Check out www.iainabernethy.com for good articles on applications of forms.  Keep your mind open.  One person's bunkai may be different from another's, but both may be applicable.  Once you start breaking your forms down and learning about the possibilities, you'll start seeing applications in your mind while training.


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## Hajime (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm not entirely sure what this Bunkai thing is, but from those pictures it looks to be self-defense maneuvers correct? If so, then the equivalent in to that in TKD(at least ITF TKD) would be Ho San Sol, or self defense. In the encyclopedia written by the General, there is an entire section for this kind of stuff.


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## Kacey (Sep 28, 2008)

We do applications all the time; in step sparring, one should take techniques from patterns and apply them, with an eye toward developing techniques and combinations that can be used in free sparring.  And as Hajime said, there is an entire section in the Encyclopedia devoted to applications - in the extended Encyclopedia (rather than the condensed version) there are applications for every movement, sometimes several applications for every movement.


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## terryl965 (Sep 28, 2008)

It is Boon Hai and yes the KKW should have it on there website when they explain poomsae but since the KKW really is a shell for sport TKD it is not important as much to them anymore.


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## bluekey88 (Sep 29, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> It is Boon Hai and yes the KKW should have it on there website when they explain poomsae but since the KKW really is a shell for sport TKD it is not important as much to them anymore.


 
They do offer some applications of a vbery select few forms move...but the applications are very 'shallow.'  I read in a book on kata (the title escapes me at the moment, though it is in the wein of the sorts of things being done by Mr. Anslow and Mr. Abernathy) that applications can have different depths.  

For example, one could look at the low bloc-punch combo that starts out the the first two Taeguk forms as what they appear to be...and block to a kick or low punch followed by a counter attack.  This is the sort of application one finds in the Kukkiwon material...basuc, and not gauranteed to be a fight ender.  Deeper application might be the low bblock actually being used to release a shoulrder grab (starting with the chamber) bending and unbalancing the attacker on the downward portion of the movement with a strike to the back, neck, ribs, etc.  It could be a grab with the lower hand 9the one that will go into chamber on the downward block.  Then the block becomes more of a breaking maneuver, followed by a strike.

The idea is  that block strike applications tend not to be fight enders...but deeper applications require that the application end with the attacker on the ground unable to continue....I haven't seen much of that in the kukkiwon apps.  

Peace,
Erik


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## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 29, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> Here is a thread in which this was discussed in depth.
> 
> A very quick summary..."As I said, bunseok, bunhae, haesul, and haeseok all have similar meanings; any of which could be a translation for the word Bunkai, depending on the specific idea you want to get across."
> 
> From what I can tell, Bunseok and Bunhae are the two most commonly used terms.


Thank you for directing me to that thread!!  I found this post to be very, very helpful:


Master Jay S. Penfil said:


> Graham,
> Thank you for your kind words here... Training with you and your dojang is awesome. I am looking forward to being there with all of you again soon.
> 
> As Bernard stated: The Pyong Ahn Hyung are Okinawan, as are ALL of the hyung in Tang Soo Do (not Soo Bahk Do).
> ...


My thanks to Master Jay!!

Daniel


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## MBuzzy (Sep 29, 2008)

Celtic Tiger said:


> Thank you for directing me to that thread!!  I found this post to be very, very helpful:
> 
> Daniel



No problem.  I urge anyone who is looking for straight translations to keep an open mind when dealing with other languages....any other languages.  Words do not always translate directly or easily and there may be multiple words that convey very slightly different ideas, as in this case.  Each of the different words here mean something ever so slightly different.  The Japanese use a single word to get the whole idea, since it is an integral part of many of their arts.  The Koreans don't have a _single_ word, but many which convey minor differences of idea.  This is very very common when jumping between languages.

As for actual application of this concept within KMA....I would have to agree, your best bet is Master Penfil.  He is the trailblazer in that area for the KMA's.  If you want to look a bit further, Iain Abernathy is huge into Bunkai for the Japanese arts and offers a great deal of books, webcasts, articles, videos, etc.


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## chrispillertkd (Sep 30, 2008)

Is Boon Hae a term that has traditionally been used in TKD and other Korean MA's, or is it a neo-logism coined by Mr. Anslow? Either way it's no big deal, I was just curious as I seem to recall Mr. Anslow saying on another forum that it was nearly a direct translation of Bunkai into Korean.

The term I have heard before is Keupso Chirigi, or vital point striking. It emphasizes striking to certain areas of the body (obviously) but does include other "hidden" or - perhaps better -less obvious applications of techniques. 

Pax,

Chris


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## StuartA (Sep 30, 2008)

_Boon Hae_ is technically a direct translation of Bunkai - however, though direct it lacks the _'omp'_ that bunkai has in Japanese circles as to the average person it simply means to dismantle or take apart, however, it is Korean and in MA circles means the same regarding pattern applications, therefore is correct in lui of a better/original word.

_Hae Sul_ means indepth examination, so is used in researching Boon hae, so it is incorrect to describe the training of techniques from patterns as Hae Sul, as you are training stuff you already know, to make them better.

_Hosinsul_ is incorrect as it applies to all techniques that relate to self defence and not specifically pattern applications.

It is not a neologism as many use the term, it is simply not as common as the term Bunkai as 1) Many TKD schools dont do boon hae  2) Many instructors never knew what the term was as part of their standing/early training so used 'Bunkai' instead, as thats all they knew.

Thats how I understand it all anyway.

Stuart


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## bluekey88 (Sep 30, 2008)

As an interesting asie to the OP.  I see that Simon O'Neil just published a book on Boon Hae applied to the Taeguk forms.  I've ordered it and sold have it in a week or so.  I'll post a review once I get a chance to look at it.

Peace,
Erik


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## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 30, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> As an interesting asie to the OP. I see that Simon O'Neil just published a book on Boon Hae applied to the Taeguk forms. I've ordered it and sold have it in a week or so. I'll post a review once I get a chance to look at it.
> 
> Peace,
> Erik


Fantastic!  Do you have the title of the book by chance?

Daniel


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## bluekey88 (Sep 30, 2008)

You can order it through www.combat-tkd.com

it is called _The Taeguk cipher: The patterns of Kukki Taekwondo as a Self-defense Syllabus_.

Peace,
Erik


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## exile (Sep 30, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> You can order it through www.combat-tkd.com
> 
> it is called _The Taeguk cipher: The patterns of Kukki Taekwondo as a Self-defense Syllabus_.
> 
> ...



_It finally came out??!!_ I've been waiting for that book to appear in print for two years, ever since I learned that SJO'N was writing it!!

Bluekey, you've just made my day, month and year (and we don't even do the Taegeuks at my dojang&#8212;we do the Palgwes! :lol


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## Daniel Sullivan (Sep 30, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> You can order it through www.combat-tkd.com
> 
> it is called _The Taeguk cipher: The patterns of Kukki Taekwondo as a Self-defense Syllabus_.
> 
> ...


Must order... must order... must order....must..er.. you get the idea.

Daniel


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## bluekey88 (Sep 30, 2008)

exile said:


> _It finally came out??!!_ I've been waiting for that book to appear in print for two years, ever since I learned that SJO'N was writing it!!
> 
> Bluekey, you've just made my day, month and year (and we don't even do the Taegeuks at my dojangwe do the Palgwes! :lol


 

It's certainly my pleasure Exile.   I've got great hopes for this book...If it lives up to the rep, I'm hoping to see if my Sabumnim will let me run some special classes to try to booon hae apps out. 

Peace,
Erik


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## terryl965 (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes it is a great book just got mine two days ago, only went though it a little but will give a review as soon as I am done with it.


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## IcemanSK (Sep 30, 2008)

exile said:


> _It finally came out??!!_ I've been waiting for that book to appear in print for two years, ever since I learned that SJO'N was writing it!!
> 
> Bluekey, you've just made my day, month and year (and we don't even do the Taegeuks at my dojang&#8212;we do the Palgwes! :lol


 

Are you gonna be ok, exile?:ultracool

Actually, I'm excited to hear that, too. I just ordered it myself.


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## exile (Sep 30, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Are you gonna be ok, exile?:ultracool



Yeah yeah, I know how to handle tachycardia... run cold water on your wrists, drink a glass or two of icewater, get a cold water soaked towel around your neck... I've done all that already, so I should be OK :lol:...



IcemanSK said:


> Actually, I'm excited to hear that, too:uhyeah:



See, I first encountered SJON via his article in one of the 2006 _Taekwondo Times_ issues... for my money, it was best article they ever published. Found out about his Combat TKD website from the article and subscribed to his newsletters, and was disappointed to learn there were only going to be 12 of them... because he was working on this book. So I've been kind of on the edge of my seat for all this time, and I'm always referring to his work, but unlike with Stuart A's book, there hasn't been anything by SJON in the immediately available domain that I can point to when I talk about bunkai for TKD forms. So apart from getting my hands on the book itself, it's kind of a great relief to actually have another text I can point people to to illustrate what I'm getting at, about the increased interest on the TKD side in the practical combat application of TKD hyungs....


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## IcemanSK (Sep 30, 2008)

exile said:


> Yeah yeah, I know how to handle tachycardia... run cold water on your wrists, drink a glass or two of icewater, get a cold water soaked towel around your neck... I've done all that already, so I should be OK :lol:...
> 
> 
> 
> See, I first encountered SJON via his article in one of the 2006 _Taekwondo Times_ issues... for my money, it was best article they ever published. Found out about his Combat TKD website from the article and subscribed to his newsletters, and was disappointed to learn there were only going to be 12 of them... because he was working on this book. So I've been kind of on the edge of my seat for all this time, and I'm always referring to his work, but unlike with Stuart A's book, there hasn't been anything by SJON in the immediately available domain that I can point to when I talk about bunkai for TKD forms. So apart from getting my hands on the book itself, it's kind of a great relief to actually have another text I can point people to to illustrate what I'm getting at, about the increased interest on the TKD side in the practical combat application of TKD hyungs....


 

For a good number of years I've heard folks say such disparaging things about TKD & the Tae Geuk poomsae in particular. While they are not my favorite poomsae (I'm more partial to the Pal Gwe poomsae, myself) I'm excited to see someone do some serious picking them apart & examine them in a positive light. There is value in them.:mst:

Now that I've ordered mine, time will probably stand still until it comes


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## exile (Sep 30, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> For a good number of years I've heard folks say such disparaging things about TKD & the Tae Geuk poomsae in particular. While they are not my favorite poomsae (I'm more partial to the Pal Gwe poomsae, myself) I'm excited to see someone do some serious picking them apart & examine them in a positive light. There is value in them.:mst:



The Taegeuks have had the deck stacked against them on at least two counts: the Palgwes have a kind of classic elegance that the Ts don't (that high walking stance doesn't help), and there has also been a good deal of resistance to them from people who didn't at all like the way the Palgwes were summarily pulled from their place in the KKW curriculum to make room for the Taegeuks. The back story on that one is pretty ugly (see here), and some of the resulting bad blood probably washed back into the way people look at the Ts. SJON's work can probably help them gain back some credibility among the 'hard rock' combat-oriented group. Who know?&#8212;maybe people who read his book will start performing them in a more intense way, inspired by the combat meaning of the moves that O'N lays out for consideration, and they'll take on a whole different look during tournament forms competitions.



IcemanSK said:


> Now that I've ordered mine, time will probably stand still until it comes



Funny how that seems to happen with a book you really, really want to get hold of, eh?


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## StuartA (Sep 30, 2008)

bluekey88 said:


> As an interesting asie to the OP. I see that Simon O'Neil just published a book on Boon Hae applied to the Taeguk forms. I've ordered it and sold have it in a week or so. I'll post a review once I get a chance to look at it.
> 
> Peace,
> Erik


 
Yup... got mine ordered... will let you know what its like, but knowing Simon, Im sure it will be great.

Stuart


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## KickFest (Oct 2, 2008)

Just ordered mine, too :boing1:

I figure anything that gets exile this excited has got to be worth a look 
If this book does indeed have realistic applications for the Taegeuks then I know it will make me train with more determination because I will believe in what I'm doing, rather than just doing a set of techniques.


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