# More a self defense ideas than fighting off the bad guy?



## moonhill99 (Jun 8, 2016)

This thread is not to fight of the bad guy, but self defense ideas. 

 I never go out walking on the streets at night. And I never go walking down back alleys or areas where known gang members hang out.

For one, I never go walking out at night on the street and my girlfriend does not!! Only time is  if we are are together. But I remember reading some where what is the minimum safety level doing a PR speech that walking on the streets. That you need at least three people. Most people will not fight with you or rob you if there are three of you. But if there is one or two people they are more likely to fight with you or rob you.

And if there is three people you are more likely to fight of the attackers.

So how well does this come into play? I don't want to feel too overconfident walking with three people on the street and putting my self in bad spot  but yet on an other times never leaving the house unless it to school or work.

Do you walk at night if there two or three of you? Do you say away from bars and night clubs where most fight happen?

My local mall is area for known gang members to hang out. So how do you deal with that?? When you have to go to the mall alone?

The 711 stores  and convenience stores are really bad spots for robbery in my city. You stay away from 711 stores and convenience stores?


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 8, 2016)

Sue and I have no qualms about walking out at night. We do not live in a high crime area. If we did, we would move. We are both martial artists. We are both concealed weapons carriers, and we train regularly with guns as well as empty hands.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 8, 2016)

I used to live in a high crime neighborhood and walking outside at night was a big NO - NO.  We still traveled at night but walking outside for like exercise to go from point A to point B was just asking for problems.  Bars and Clubs were based on how likely violence was to break out.   I've never seen a bar fight or a club fight in person and I used to go to clubs and bars a lot.

The trick is not to play where the criminal elements like to play and avoid establishments that are known to attract violence for whatever reason.  In high school, a near by  roller skating rink where teens went skate had a higher fatality rate involving  gun fire than many of the inner city clubs.   Some malls are like that as well so it's just better to avoid those areas than it is to roll the dice.

#1 rule of self defense.  Know your environment and be aware of your surroundings.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 8, 2016)

A: I want to walk in Central Park.
B: It's not safe there. People got robbed all the time.
A: That's why I'm going over there. I'm a bit short on cash.

The following was a true story.

A guy did his running in the NYC Central Park. Another guy ran passing by him. He then realized that his watch was not on his wrist any more. He ran toward that guy and said, "Give me your watch." The other guy gave him his watch. When he went home, he found out that his watch was on his desk.

IMO, it's not healthy to live in fear and always think you are the prey and all others are predators. You can be a predator if you want to.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 8, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> it's not healthy to live in fear and always think you are the prey and all others are predators.


I agree with your statement. Just adding to it.

There's a difference between fear and understanding the risks and making a decision based on those risks.  Fear is also good as long as it's not so dominating that a person can't function normally.  If a person always thinks they are the victim before an assault even occurs then they will always be a victim and everything about them will scream "come bother me because I'm a victim"  Police often advise women not to look like victims.  It's like a lion on a hunt for prey.  The prey can be sick, but it better not look sick when the lion is there.

  True story:  A mother tried to get her daughter (20+ years old) away from friends who used to hang out in dangerous neighborhoods and friends who socialized in those neighborhoods.  The mother tried to hook her daughter up with me because she knew that I don't "play in those sandboxes."  The risk of her daughter being harmed when with me was almost zero.  2 months after meeting the mother, her daughter was caught in a gun fight.   The bullet went through the car door and hit her spine.  As a result she became paralyzed from the neck down and that was the price for playing in the sandbox.  There are some things we can't stop from happening, but there are a lot of things that we can prevent by just not being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, around the wrong people.

Self-defense is often looked at as what we do when a conflict occurs but it covers so much more than that.  Much of self -defense is done long before conflict occurs.

I intentionally don't hang around or socialize with people who get my emotions so stirred up that I want to hit them.  I avoid those people more than I avoid criminals. lol.  But that's my self-defense for staying out of jail and being charged with assault which will just put me in a system that is probably full of people I want to hit and full of people who don't mind hitting me back with a shank. That would be a good day.  A bad day would be this


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 9, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> not to look like victims.


The following is a true story.

I took my wife to Beijing, China. We found a tricycle driver. I asked "How much". The diver said "$12". The moment that we got on, the driver said, "Each." I didn't say anything. When we arrived the destination, I gave him $12. He said, "It should be $24." I said, "You can have 2 choices here. Either you call the police, or you and I have a fist fight right here." He took my $12 and left.

That tricycle driver might not know that if he did tried to fight me, if I wrestled him down to the ground, my wife can kick on his head (my wife is also a TKD black belt.).


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## moonhill99 (Jun 9, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Bars and Clubs were based on how likely violence was to break out. I've never seen a bar fight or a club fight in person and I used to go to clubs and bars a lot.
> .



Some cities worse for Bars and Clubs fights than other cities?  

 I know in my city we had some shootings at some night clubs.


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## Buka (Jun 9, 2016)

I don't walk much any more, unless it's a stroll. Never really considered walking exercise, unless it's power walking uphill, which we do from time to time. When we do stroll, we stroll places we like.

By the time you get older you know the places to go and not to go. If you don't know that, you wouldn't have gotten older.


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## MAfreak (Jun 10, 2016)

why you hide, when it would limit you in your life? sure one shouldn't go through known criminal-hoods but to go somewere allegedly safe, why not at night when necessary (night shift etc)? we don't train our stuff for nothing.
when i feel like going in a club, then i go. when i have to go out at night (for whatever reason) then i do so, mostly alone (but wouldn't ever recommend this to women, not even in such allegedly safe places).

also i sometimes played the security guard at night to get firestarters, burglars and such creeps around here. when doing that, i always have at least one tonfa, better two, because i dunno how much guys it would be or if they have bats themselves or whatever. i didn't need it, and didn't have to fight while doing this yet. one time it was enough to call the cops and stay back after finding the thug.

sure it depends also on where we live. my hometown, even if there is much scum, isn't a big city and here it is hard to get firearms. otherwise i wouldn't count on self defense training and tonfas, too...


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## crazydiamond (Jun 12, 2016)

I live in a very safe area, but I work in a big city that while generally safe - has its occasional mentally unstable, drug user, homeless, pan handler people.

I take a very short ride on a crowded subway train to my office - and that's where I feel least safe getting into the station and on or off a subway car- especially when one of those mentally unstable people is in the section with you. Your  trapped in a metal car for a few stops with someone acting very agitated.  Thing is - with your unstable folks (vs criminal types) it does not matter than I am a very big guy. Crazy/agitated/unstable will get in your face without ANY consideration of risk or target ease - because thats not on their crazy minds like would be with a criminal type. This is where I am glad to have some training.


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## Paul_D (Jun 12, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The following is a true story.
> 
> I took my wife to Beijing, China. We found a tricycle driver. I asked "How much". The diver said "$12". The moment that we got on, the driver said, "Each." I didn't say anything. When we arrived the destination, I gave him $12. He said, "It should be $24." I said, "You can have 2 choices here. Either you call the police, or you and I have a fist fight right here." He took my $12 and left.
> 
> That tricycle driver might not know that if he did tried to fight me, if I wrestled him down to the ground, my wife can kick on his head (my wife is also a TKD black belt.).


And you might not know that if he carries a knife and you can die for $12.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 12, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> And you might not know that if he carries a knife and you can die for $12.


If that was the day that I should die, I should just die that day. I'm not going to live in fear and always worry about "What if he has a knife (or gun) in his pocket".


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## Paul_D (Jun 12, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> If that was the day that I should die, I should just die that day. I'm not going to live in fear and always worry about "What if he has a knife (or gun) in his pocket".


You are missing the point.  The point isn't whether or not you are going to die, as you may not, the point is it's not worth taking the risk for $12.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jun 12, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You are missing the point.  The point isn't whether or not you are going to die, as you may not, the point is it's not worth taking the risk for $12.


It's not the money. It's the principle. Someone borrowed my desk and refused to return back to me. I got a lawyer and won the case. That table might only worth $50. But I didn't mind to pay $500 lawyer fee just for the principle. I know, there are many stupid things that we all do in our life time. If I were to live that part of my life again, I would still do the same.


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## moonhill99 (Jun 14, 2016)

Paul_D said:


> You are missing the point.  The point isn't whether or not you are going to die, as you may not, the point is it's not worth taking the risk for $12.



I don't think anyone here is saying any people should try to take away the person their knife, pocket knife or gun like you see in Hollywood movies that may not go well with stronger attacker than you. Well yea if you a 200 pound guy bodybuilder and small 100 pound person you will probably win. But the same weight or the attacker being a bit more weight than you well it may not play out like you see in the Hollywood movies.

*And if you get it away from him* and you are not strong enough he could *run up to you and grab it back and stabbed you.*

You better of getting clothing description and any other description and call the police.


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## moonhill99 (Jun 14, 2016)

crazydiamond said:


> I live in a very safe area, but I work in a big city that while generally safe - has its occasional mentally unstable, drug user, homeless, pan handler people.
> 
> I take a very short ride on a crowded subway train to my office - and that's where I feel least safe getting into the station and on or off a subway car- especially when one of those mentally unstable people is in the section with you. Your  trapped in a metal car for a few stops with someone acting very agitated.  Thing is - with your unstable folks (vs criminal types) it does not matter than I am a very big guy. Crazy/agitated/unstable will get in your face without ANY consideration of risk or target ease - because thats not on their crazy minds like would be with a criminal type. This is where I am glad to have some training.



Gang members and Emotionally Disturbed Person having a bad episode or mental illness are the worse people.

I would whether a criminal or heroin junkie robbed me or break into my home than a gang member or a Emotionally Disturbed Person acting all crazy.

 You can stay away from gang areas of the city but you cannot stay away from Emotionally Disturbed people that are spread out all over the city.

Where lot of these criminals and drug addicts may be doing crime to support them self but don't want to get murder charge or attempted murder. The Gang members will not care one way or other and the Emotionally Disturbed Person will not know what they are doing is bad and they could spend life in jail or get the death penalty.

Finding over $12 is silly. Not every thing plays out like Hollywood movies.


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## Juany118 (Jun 15, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> Gang members and Emotionally Disturbed Person having a bad episode or mental illness are the worse people.
> 
> I would whether a criminal or heroin junkie robbed me or break into my home than a gang member or a Emotionally Disturbed Person acting all crazy.
> 
> ...



Well the vast majority of mentally or emotionally disturbed persons will not attack unless provoked.  I work in a small city that is the center for out patient Mental Health programs for half of 3 different counties (the city is smack dab on the border of the other 2).  In terms of unprovoked violence they are the absolute LEAST of my concerns and I am the guy that gets called via 911 for the "altered mental status, advise EMS when the scene is secured" call.

They are NOT going to attack you in your home, unless they are a friend or a family member.  If encountered on the streets they will rarely, if ever, attack if unprovoked.  http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx  As a matter of fact, as a matter of statistics the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators.  Study Shows Mentally Ill More Likely to Be Victims, Not Perpetrators, of Violence | NC State University

The fear of those with mental illness is largely driven by mass shootings because most mass shooters etc end up having some form of mental illness but lets look at it from a numbers game.  In 2015 there 372 mass shootings.  Most of them were crime/gang related actually but for the sake of this exercise we will say they were all perpetrated by the mentally ill.  (you can look them up here Mass Shootings).  They killed over 400 people and wounded over 1000 people, in a population of over 320 million.


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## crazydiamond (Jun 15, 2016)

Something like this outburst/situation  - would not be unheard of on the city subway I ride. Drunk or unstable folks - I have seen it happen maybe not to a choke out - but it happens.


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## JP3 (Jun 15, 2016)

I make sure to get out of my office late at night, where I've been working alone, and walk alone home in the dark on side streets, except this one spot where I have to walk behind and around a 7-11. I usually go in there and insult the gang-bangers standing at the door so they know I'm cool and not to be messed ith, grab a beer so I smell like I'm drinking, then walk a roundabout route home.  I usually do this while I'm flinging my keeys around my finger and tossing my iPhone up & down in my off hand to demonstrate my ambidexterity.

Yeah, that's about it.

Kidding aside... alone or not, keep your head up, eyes open and swiveling around watching your surroundings. Predators watch for those unaware ones, and they kill and eat them. Bullies, different story, there the head up and watchful look means "I see you and I'm not afraid." Don't be... even if you are.


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## Juany118 (Jun 15, 2016)

crazydiamond said:


> Something like this outburst/situation  - would not be unheard of on the city subway I ride. Drunk or unstable folks - I have seen it happen maybe not to a choke out - but it happens.



There is a big difference between violent drunk idiot and the mentally ill.


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## moonhill99 (Jun 16, 2016)

crazydiamond said:


> Something like this outburst/situation  - would not be unheard of on the city subway I ride. Drunk or unstable folks - I have seen it happen maybe not to a choke out - but it happens.



That why it is best to stay clear of drunks and drunks that are really combative. But cities that have high road range is also problem. There been cases of other drivers getting out and starting a fight or pulling a gun or shooting.


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## moonhill99 (Jun 16, 2016)

JP3 said:


> I make sure to get out of my office late at night, where I've been working alone, and walk alone home in the dark on side streets, except this one spot where I have to walk behind and around a 7-11. I usually go in there and insult the gang-bangers standing at the door so they know I'm cool and not to be messed ith, grab a beer so I smell like I'm drinking, then walk a roundabout route home.  I usually do this while I'm flinging my keeys around my finger and tossing my iPhone up & down in my off hand to demonstrate my ambidexterity.
> 
> Yeah, that's about it.
> 
> Kidding aside... alone or not, keep your head up, eyes open and swiveling around watching your surroundings. Predators watch for those unaware ones, and they kill and eat them. Bullies, different story, there the head up and watchful look means "I see you and I'm not afraid." Don't be... even if you are.



In my city the police do not advice to walk late at night and even advise parents or other kids to walk to and from school and not alone.


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## moonhill99 (Jun 16, 2016)

Juany118 said:


> Well the vast majority of mentally or emotionally disturbed persons will not attack unless provoked.  I work in a small city that is the center for out patient Mental Health programs for half of 3 different counties (the city is smack dab on the border of the other 2).  In terms of unprovoked violence they are the absolute LEAST of my concerns and I am the guy that gets called via 911 for the "altered mental status, advise EMS when the scene is secured" call.
> 
> They are NOT going to attack you in your home, unless they are a friend or a family member.  If encountered on the streets they will rarely, if ever, attack if unprovoked.  http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/mental-illness-crime.aspx  As a matter of fact, as a matter of statistics the mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators.  Study Shows Mentally Ill More Likely to Be Victims, Not Perpetrators, of Violence | NC State University
> 
> The fear of those with mental illness is largely driven by mass shootings because most mass shooters etc end up having some form of mental illness but lets look at it from a numbers game.  In 2015 there 372 mass shootings.  Most of them were crime/gang related actually but for the sake of this exercise we will say they were all perpetrated by the mentally ill.  (you can look them up here Mass Shootings).  They killed over 400 people and wounded over 1000 people, in a population of over 320 million.



I'm not really concern about homeless and mentally people coming to my office or home. Most of the homeless and mentally people are in areas of city asking people for money, singing and dancing on the street or screaming. We don't really get the homeless and mentally people at malls and shopping plazas here. There are some shopping plazas in not so good areas where you find some homeless and mentally people some them off their meds or having episode.

I never had aggressive panhandlers in my city or stalkers. But some city can get the aggressive panhandlers and stalkers types.

Most of the homeless and mentally in my city are just crazy. They spend most there time in and out of jail or just doing crazy things like singing, dancing, jumping into traffic so on .

If you stay out of the areas of my city where the homeless and mentally are on the the street you will be okay.

But we never really get aggressive panhandlers or stalkers here. There as only been couple of incidents in my city of guys stalkers and touching girls.

We do get lot of robberies here but lot of them street robberies. We have gang here but it is not big like the big cities.

The 90% of the home break in here are people that are poor or need money for drugs here . Other 10% are problem here of gangs breaking in and stealing. There been number of really bad home invasion of the home owner that have been beaten up and than tied up.


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## crazydiamond (Jun 17, 2016)

moonhill99 said:


> That why it is best to stay clear of drunks and drunks that are really combative. .



Unavoidable for many. Your on a train - trapped. Maybe you did not start it - but your in the car anyway. Been there.


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