# Practicing real life fighting



## arnuld (Nov 10, 2009)

I want to make it clear that I don't know any martial arts. I love street safe series of Paul-Vunak  but I am unable to get any practitioner in my area . So I bought a punching bag started practicing some of the moves I learned from street safe 1 and Tony Jaa's The Protector movie. The only one aim is self-defense , fighting on the street for one's life. 

This is my training schedule of hitting the punching bag, I practice kicks on both legs, so divide the reps by 2 for number of kicks with each leg : 

  (1) 20 front kicks 
  (2) 20-30 round house kicks (attack on ribs)
  (3) 50 side kicks
  (4) 50 punches (with first two knuckles) 
  (5) Punch-on-Wall 
  (6) 10 elbow attacks
  (7) 20 knee kicks
  (8) 20 knee kicks (with jumps, you jump and then attack with knee)

My space is quite cramped and I don't have the money to rent a bigger room, so I can not practice moves which take lots of space. Currently I am reading about some boxing moves. Can anyone do some additions to the training, any other lethal moves I can practice ?

When you practice round-house kick which is more effective for real life combat: the upper part of foot or the leg + foot method of Muay-Thai.


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## Omar B (Nov 10, 2009)

It's great to hear that you are motivated man, but there's no learning from books, DVDs or Tony Jaa movies.  Firstly, no matter how correct you think you are doing something, the book, DVD or movie are not there to check your form.  Secondly, learning from movies helps no one, things are cheated to make them look bigger, more impressive, more theatrical, at the expense of efficient movement and form.

Also, doing 20 this or 50 that is no help if you are not doing it correctly.  As I said, there's a lot more to a move than what can be gleaned from the pages of a book or a DVD.  A half an inch correction in one direction or another is a world of difference.

Also, those numbers are way low.  We practice if the thousands.  You sound motivated, find yourself a teacher, even if you can't commit to full time training.  The last think anyone wants to do is instill habits that will eventually tweak joints, muscles or nerves, as well as be inefficient at delivering power.  Plus, an ingrained bad habit, no matter if it's a half in off is hell to correct down the road.


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## Chris Parker (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi Arnuld,

To begin with, Omar is completely correct about learning from books/DVDs etc, it just can't be done. They are realistically training supplements at best, and learning from a Tony Jaa movie just won't really give you anything at all.

But to answer your questions: 

*- Can anyone do some additions to the training, any other lethal moves I can practice ?*

Yes. An instructor and people to train with. Without those, you will make very limited progress at best. Just doing repetitions on a bag, although very good for developing power and a very good overall workout, it really will do absolutely nothing for developing self defence skills.

*- When you practice round-house kick which is more effective for real life combat: the upper part of foot or the **leg + foot** method of Muay-Thai.*

(Knowing this could get me in a fair bit of trouble here....) Neither! Not a good kick for self defence, you are far too off balance, it takes too much distance which you don't have, and is just badly suited to a violent encounter. The only way I can think of that it becomes a viable technique is as a low kick to the legs, and in that I would use the shin/instep, not the foot itself. But realistically, a roundhouse kick is prevalent in sport systems such as Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, and others, not systems geared just for self defence. 

Okay, I'll sit back and wait for the backlash to that one...


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## Omar B (Nov 10, 2009)

No backlash, you are correct.  Roundhouse looks good in sporting situations where you are protected by the rules or on film when Tony Jaa can float in the air, telegraph the move and the guy waits there to get hit.  In real self defense it's kicks below the waist, hands above, otherwise your balance is too compromised in a life and death situation.  Roundhouse, if you feel the _need_ to do it should be the last in a sequence when the fight is already won.


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## Draven (Nov 10, 2009)

I guess unlike my counter parts I believe you can learn effective self-defense from instructional books and DVDs. Of course it puts you at a huge disadvantage from someone who knows what your doing and doing wrong. My Personal opinion, is that all martial artists are self-taught; they are always learning and practicing on their own, everyone is just hobbiests who do their 1 hour a day 2 to 3 days a week & think the class makes them a martial artists.

Here is my advice;
1. Tony Jaa movies are ment to be good entertainment but they are choriographed (sp?) fight scenes & not realistic.
2. Everyone learns differently some people can learn from books and some can't, if I understand the principles and concepts behind the action I can often pick it up within a few minutes, thats why I won't say you can't learn from Books and DVDs. You need to find out how you learn best and go from there, for many people its impossible to learn from a book and for others its impossible to learn from a person.
3. Sit down with a full sized mirror and practice your form. In reality, form serves only to create muscle memory and in a real fight thats the basis for how you will react but its not going to be "picture perfect" everytime. However you do need to make sure you can put the body mechanics into the techniques.
4. Increase the numbers of repitions to 100 then go into higher repetitions and more sets. Also start doing sets say 3 sets of 100 for each technique. 
5. I agree with everyone here the roundhouse is only effective as a low kick, in fact I've used it several times and in a real fight & in a tourny I had to "hide it" behind a lung punch. Even then if your going for the thigh (use the shin) and if your going for the knee or ankle; use the ball of your foot.
6. As for the other "lethal moves" there isn't any their is just a more effective intent to fundamental techniques. 

If you want to learn but can't afford it, thats fine to train on your own. If no places are in your area thats also fine because your doing what you have to to learn. I'm a big fan of self-education BTW but, if you can find a quality instructor thats always gonna be your best bet.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 10, 2009)

First; Books and DVDs are at best supplements to training with a real teacher and movies are NEVER a good idea to use as even a supplement.

As to this, and I cannot answer this based on Muay Thai, only Sanda



arnuld said:


> (1) 20 front kicks
> (2) 20-30 round house kicks (attack on ribs)
> (3) 50 side kicks
> (4) 50 punches (with first two knuckles)
> ...


 
Not enough

Minimum

300 kicks per day
300 palm strikes per day
pretty much 300 of just about everything per day is the minimum requirement for a beginner.

Before Sanda I was also told by another CMA sifu 150/day but this was a modern Wushu Sifu


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## still learning (Nov 10, 2009)

Hello, MY opinion may differ here....

Everyone can learn from Martial art types of books and videos....That is why there is so many of them....

Next books and videos...will help...some? ...Best is to have a true teacher and hands on training with real people...Real life training..

Street fighters? ....learn from actual experiences...

Can one learn enough? ...from reading and watching Martial art training videos? ....YES! 

How many times we see white belts give the upper levels a hard time?
Lots of times...too!

Aloha, 

Self-training..takes more efforts...CAN BE DONE!  ...YOU WILL NEED THE RIGHT STUFFS TO LEARN FROM TOO...!


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 10, 2009)

Omar B said:


> No backlash, you are correct. Roundhouse looks good in sporting situations where you are protected by the rules or on film when Tony Jaa can float in the air, telegraph the move and the guy waits there to get hit. In real self defense it's kicks below the waist, hands above, otherwise your balance is too compromised in a life and death situation. Roundhouse, if you feel the _need_ to do it should be the last in a sequence when the fight is already won.


 
Omar, I have kicked them above the wist line before. Of course, I knocked them into a bent over position so it was in line for what would have been a below the waist line kick if they were standing.  

Good Advice in your first post and this one.


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## Allen a.k.a. Destroyer (Nov 11, 2009)

Hi Arnuld,

I've gotta agree that a qualified instructor is the best way to learn, BUT! ... You can still learn from books and movies. If you are ever able to however, you would benefit greatly from learning in a class with a good instructor.

In the meantime: keep practicing (more repetitions as they have said), find more books (surviving armed assaults & the tao of jeet kune do to name a couple) and actual self defense/martial art videos (most _*movies*_ are not as good for learning, they *are* *entertainment*). Be sure you stretch before, after, and during workouts. Stretching is key to preventing injuries and it also helps you keep (and improve) your full range of motion. This extra flexibility will make you a more capable student when you finally are able to join a school.

When I was younger I got a lot of knowledge from an old paperback kung-fu book made in the early 1970s. It had alot of great training and stretching tips. However, it was only much later when I was finally able to join a school that I improved greatly. I was only a child playing around with kung-fu before I joined a class and became a martial artist. Seek out instruction, but in the meantime keep training as best as you can. That Tan Dao website looks like a good resource for you, keep searching for others as you improve.

Also... let me impart this advice to you... Every style has something to give. Do not be concerned with finding a particular "style" instructor to teach you. There are good techniques in every style. Martial arts were created for self defense... while some may have strayed into the "sport" area, there are still techniques and training that can be taken from them. Surely, you can find an instuctor or two of one martial art or another in a city that size in India? See if you can sit in and watch a class for free, or maybe get one free lesson? Voice your concerns to the instructor and I'm sure you will be able to find someone that can work with you.

I forget who said it... but I remember reading this: "A good student spends 5 years searching for a good master. A good master spends 5 years testing a good student." It may take some time, but it will be a very rewarding journey. 

May you get to the point where people no longer seek to fight you.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar (Nov 17, 2009)

Round kicks to the knees are solid for SD.

 It either breaks, hyperextends or folds depending on their positiin whe you kick them.

 We tech them at mid-close and close range but we advocate throwing a hand strike towards their face  right before or as you execute the kick.

 We also teach you to bring the leg across and downward for more power and to be on balance after the kick is delivered.


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## xfighter88 (Dec 15, 2009)

As it has already been stated it is best to have a proficient instructor. That being said, sometimes you don't have the time or money to go to a dojo. The most important thing that I could suggest is finding someone who wants a training partner. There are sites where you can put your city name in and find people looking to train outside of class. Then you get access to someone who most likely takes classes somewhere and is looking to train more outside of practice. This is great because they will have at least a rudimentary understanding of technique so you get some feedback. 

As for techniques...I have done lots of muay thai and taekwondo. I would suggest that the roundhouse kick uses more shin than foot. I would also keep the kicks at thigh level for self defense. This way you are striking a big nerve (common peroneal) and because it is below the attackers line of sight you will have a better chance of landing it. Hope this helps.


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## qwksilver61 (Dec 26, 2009)

Wing Chun is perfect for confined spaces......


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## grayarea (Dec 26, 2009)

Wing chun teaches in close fighting/self=defense. I know of very few forms but the forms are loaded with in-close kicks and a great deal of hand/arm action. 

My Sigung is a big fan of using pressure point attacks and joint locks. Always remember the point of self defense is to get away with life and limb intact. Do not stay in a fight longer than you have to!!!! And, as cliche as this sounds, always expect the unexpected. Guns, knives, other enemies tend to appear when least expected. Be smart and never stay in a fight longer than needed.

As chaotic as this world is becoming I have my whole family in KungFu training. My 8 YO has been training for 4 years.

Do not lose heart and keep training.

Charles Gray
--Just promoted to blue sash Xing Yong White Willow Kung Fu. 
Kind of daunting. I have been a beginner for 3 years.


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## grayarea (Dec 26, 2009)

Oh. I am a big fan of front heel kicks as far as kicks go. As long as the opponant is watching your hands they will never see the front kick. As stated before the roundhouse is too often telegraphed especially if you do not have a lot of flexibility and have to set it up. 

Again, never stay in a fight longer than necessary. I cannot say this too much.

Charles Gray


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## sgtmac_46 (Dec 27, 2009)

arnuld said:


> I want to make it clear that I don't know any martial arts. I love street safe series of Paul-Vunak  but I am unable to get any practitioner in my area . So I bought a punching bag started practicing some of the moves I learned from street safe 1 and Tony Jaa's The Protector movie. The only one aim is self-defense , fighting on the street for one's life.
> 
> This is my training schedule of hitting the punching bag, I practice kicks on both legs, so divide the reps by 2 for number of kicks with each leg :
> 
> ...



To put things in perspective, lets make it clear that there is nothing wrong with DVD's and books.........yes, they are a poor substitute for professional instruction, but they can also be valuable, and are better than NO instruction whatsoever, so lets not dismiss their value.........many of the great martial arts innovators, like Bruce Lee, had vast volumes of books and movies, and were prodigious readers and watchers of those books and movies.

So, with that, there's nothing wrong with getting techniques and concepts from (instructional!) movies and books and exploring on your own.  But you should still find some sort of training group and some professional instruction, if you can.  Sparring and some direction to honing your techniques are important.

For those who entirely dismiss the power of DVD's and books for training, I would note that I recently read 'Blood in the Cage' about Pat Miletich, and found that early in his career he spent a lot of time learning from books and movies, which he studied prodigiously, as he could not find professional instruction in the areas he was interested in focusing on.........what he did do, though, is hone those techniques in the gym against partners.

But one will go far further far faster with professional instruction SUPPLEMENTED by books and DVD's..........find yourself a good boxing gym, if nothing else.

Just my .02 cents worth.


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## =PSI= (Dec 27, 2009)

Act like you are fighting a real person. A bag is good for practicing individual punches etc yes but its true purpose is to allow you to practice putting them together. 

 You should dance around the bag, imagining punches and kicks (hell even knives) coming at you... practice your reactions to these attacks. Its much more realistic as sometimes you simply won't be able to throw from the hip etc. because you're too busy moving out the way of a facebreaker. 

 Work all ranges, jump back and use your teep, step forward at 45 past the bag whilst bringing the elbow round into it.. in fact 45 degrees is a pretty magical angle so play with that, mainly in defence though so practice moving away from the bag at a 45 degree angle.

 By all means continue to work all the individual strikes but you have to have dynamic bagwork too. 

I train in the japanese arts personally but there's not a soul on the planet that wouldn't benefit from a decent heavy bag if used properly.


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## seasoned (Dec 27, 2009)

arnuld said:


> I want to make it clear that I don't know any martial arts. I love street safe series of Paul-Vunak but I am unable to get any practitioner in my area . So I bought a punching bag started practicing some of the moves I learned from street safe 1 and Tony Jaa's The Protector movie. The only one aim is self-defense , fighting on the street for one's life.
> 
> This is my training schedule of hitting the punching bag, I practice kicks on both legs, so divide the reps by 2 for number of kicks with each leg :
> 
> ...


 *"Practicing real life fighting" *
This would involve hitting,also, functioning after getting hit, also proper instruction on how, "not to get hit". Lets take the first part, hitting. All this takes is a rudimentary knowledge of hand and foot positioning and something to hit. You will know after the first few hits if positioning is correct or not. This can be accomplished on a stationary object, but problems bill accrue when the object is moving. Now, lets take the second part, functioning after getting hit. In *"Practicing real life fighting"* this is a reality that is a factor, not addressed in any movie, or DVD, and this is a very real deal breaker, for sure. On to number three, this is what separates self taught versus instructional lessons. A normal reaction is to pull away from a hand or foot coming in toward you. It takes concentration and practice to react appropriately in the midst of a *"Practicing real life fighting" *situation. The idea here is to not get hit obviously, and still maintain clear thinking and proper distancing for a counter attack of your own. As you have mentioned, there is no instruction in your area, and this would present a problem in properly arming yourself with the tools you would need. As was mentioned in an earlier post, something is better then nothing. I hope the above helps you in evaluating your position on  *"Practicing real life fighting".*  :asian:


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