# entering a traditional karate style tournament



## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

I've been out of tma completely for a while.  Kept going in krav maga.  I am entering an October tournament in point fighting and weapon  forms.   Thought about doing somthing real crazy and entering hand forms.  I have learned how to take a lot of shots in krav, but that doesn't work in point fighting.   
so, I'm looking for point fighting pointers
And any advice or tips to extra hone my speed, agility,  or awareness. Don't want to look like a fool out there.


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## Tez3 (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> hand forms



What are they? 

All I remember about point fighting which I haven't done for decades since I found the fun in actually hitting people, is to remember to make a very loud kiai when you strike to fool the refs into thinking you've scored!


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## CB Jones (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> I've been out of tma completely for a while.  Kept going in krav maga.  I am entering an October tournament in point fighting and weapon  forms.   Thought about doing somthing real crazy and entering hand forms.  I have learned how to take a lot of shots in krav, but that doesn't work in point fighting.
> so, I'm looking for point fighting pointers
> And any advice or tips to extra hone my speed, agility,  or awareness. Don't want to look like a fool out there.



The 3 B's of point fighting:

Be fast
Be first
Be frequent

A lot depends on the organization and what they emphasize.

What tournament are you entering?  And what body is sanctioning it?


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

A tournament within the KFCF. It's  usually small, around 50 competitors. Emphasis in point fighting is control. In forms, they don't like excessive shouting, too fast to clearly see, or tricking.  As I recall, black belt division is unlimited three minute rounds until three points.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> What are they?
> 
> All I remember about point fighting which I haven't done for decades since I found the fun in actually hitting people, is to remember to make a very loud kiai when you strike to fool the refs into thinking you've scored!


Weaponless kata


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## Tez3 (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> Weaponless kata



That's just called kata. Kata with weapons is called 'weapons kata'.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> That's just called kata. Kata with weapons is called 'weapons kata'.


What's in a name?


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## CB Jones (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> A tournament within the KFCF. It's  usually small, around 50 competitors. Emphasis in point fighting is control. In forms, they don't like excessive shouting, too fast to clearly see, or tricking.  As I recall, black belt division is unlimited three minute rounds until three points.



Not familiar with KFCF.  But sounds like scoring is gonna be a lot like what we do.

Pointers:

Stay away from "brawling"

Don't smother your techniques to where the judges can't see what is landing.

Focus on speed and/or timing

Be aggressive and first.

Use combinations


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

Here are some specifics.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

Well that  didn't work.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

Sparring Rules: ( All judges scores and interpretations are subjective. )

Presentation speech not required for sparring competition.

All competitors must be fully padded with their own chest guard, headgear, hand pads, footpads, mouthpiece   and groin protection for males. White cloth foot and hand pads are banned.  Fingers and toes must   be completely covered per insurance requirements.

Chest guards are mandatory by insurance requirements regardless of style.

All sparring will be “Super Light” full control contact.

No contact by hand or foot to the head will be allowed in the novice and intermediate divisions.

Super light contact by foot only will be allowed to the side of the headgear in the Advanced and Black Belt   divisions only.

Contact punches to the head are not allowed in any division.

No punches or kicks will be allowed to the following: groin, bladder, back of the head, knees, and back.

No contact will be allowed to the open face area of the headgear. Intentional contact to this area will mean   disqualification. 

Lack of control, intentional force and bad sportsmanship will mean disqualification.

Non-contact faking kicks and punches to the non-score areas of the body are allowed for set-up attacks to   score areas. However, any contact, whether intentional or unintentional may lead to     disqualification at  the discretion of the Center Judge.

Upon a scored technique all fighting will be stopped, the scored upon student checked, Judges will score and   fighting resumed.

In the event of lack of control technique the fight will be stopped. The offending student will assume the   “position of shame” (kneeling, head bowed, back to other opponent) and wait for the other    competitor to be checked for any injury and the Judge’s verdict for the consequences of their lack   of control.

Scoring will be by a 1 point each system for properly executed techniques of strikes/punches/kicks to scoring   zones only.

Scoring zones will be the chest and side areas only of the chest protector and side of the headgear only.   Accidental and/or sloppy strikes/kicks to scoring zones will not be counted. Simultaneous hits to scoring areas   by both competitors will cancel out each score.

Fighting will be to a 3-point winner within 3 rounds or the one with the most points at the end of the 3 rounds.   Novice and Intermediate Divisions will have 3-90 second rounds.  Advanced and Black Belt    Divisions will have 3 rounds of 2 minutes each.  Tie scores at the end of 3 rounds will be afforded   one more round. 

A tie is possible in this competition if effort is exemplary with equal scores.

A 1 point score will be awarded for clean non-contact technique to a scoring zone if the technique is pulled   within 2” of contact and it is clear that the competitor did not or could not have defended the    technique and stopped the possibility of a scored point at Judges discretion only.


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2017)

Screen loudly run in with your head down jump In the air and aim to hit the air next to your opponent. That's what most people do In point fighting and don't even think about actually landing a shot or you'll be disqualified


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> Sparring Rules: ( All judges scores and interpretations are subjective. )
> 
> 
> A 1 point score will be awarded for clean non-contact technique to a scoring zone if the technique is pulled   within 2” of contact and it is clear that the competitor did not or could not have defended the    technique and stopped the possibility of a scored point at Judges discretion only.



See that's what I hate about point fighting. Clean non contact...I understand it for kids who haven't got good control but there should be at least some contact for adults even light contact. To me that makes it sound like you miss a punch and you get a point..how does that work? When it says it's clear they couldn't have defended that's rubbish I've refereed point tournaments and there's no way you can tell if a missed shot could've been stopped when everyone's moving around and fighting fast pace


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> What are they?
> 
> All I remember about point fighting which I haven't done for decades since I found the fun in actually hitting people, is to remember to make a very loud kiai when you strike to fool the refs into thinking you've scored!


Not even joking I've seen a guy kiai when he didnt even throw a shot and he got a point...


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## CB Jones (Aug 9, 2017)

Yeah.  We like light contact to head and full contact or medium contact to body.


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## Tez3 (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> What's in a name?



Quite a lot Josephine.


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## Buka (Aug 9, 2017)

Before we get to any sport tactics opinion, let's look Big Picture first. Go have fun, bro. It should be fun, interacting with everyone, being part of the sport fighting environment, getting that nervous rush when your name is called - then looking back at how quick it all was, what a nice guy so and so was, how what's his name threw that kick etc.

Go have yourself some fun. Competition rocks.

I don't know if you'll be fighting novice, intermediate or advanced, so we'll go with just general opinion. 

Blade Your Body/Stance so as to limit the scoring opportunities of your opponents.

Keep your feet comfortably stanced - Karate fighters, when stressed or pressed, tend to let their stances widen, limiting mobility for running away [think Monty Python] side stepping or offensively moving forward.

Keep your shoulders relaxed, your hands light and moving easily.

Try to figure which side of the fighting area you want to enter from. Where you want that Center Judge to be standing - on your open front side or your back side.

Watch what all the judges/refs are calling that day. Most judge groups have habits of what they like to see. So when the second round of fighters comes around you'll have a slight advantage over any fighters not paying attention to said judges.

The most commonly scored techniques in point tournaments, especially small or local tournaments, is a reverse punch. If you have a decent one, use that puppy.

But just go have fun. I believe point fighting is done at a more successful level when the fighter is having fun.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

I will be in the black belt division.   Likely against several I competed with in the past.  if ya want to look em up, I have most of my previous matches somewhere on this forum.  I'm going to try and find them.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 9, 2017)

(No Axes Involved)   Point Sparring Tournament

Something like this.


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## JR 137 (Aug 9, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> Sparring Rules: ( All judges scores and interpretations are subjective. )
> 
> Presentation speech not required for sparring competition.
> 
> ...



Never heard that one called "Position of Shame" before.  Pretty stupid name for it if you ask me.


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## Headhunter (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> I will be in the black belt division.   Likely against several I competed with in the past.  if ya want to look em up, I have most of my previous matches somewhere on this forum.  I'm going to try and find them.


I definentely feel if your in a black belt division you should be allowed to do contact. Your a black belt your control should be good to deliver a hit without injuring someone. I understand it for kids but for adults and especially black belts there should be contact even if just light contact. Also the rules say you must wear all that protection...seems unnecessary when your not even allowed to touch the person


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

It's annoying


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

I did break an opponent's rib at that tournament a year or two ago.   She charged into a kick.  But really, I think the occasional minor injury is good to keep us humble and teach us not to complain.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

The master running the tournament has lightened contact as he became older and more broken.


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## hoshin1600 (Aug 10, 2017)

if it is an open karate tournament, i would be prepared for something resembling this.









notice the distance and timing.  there is a feel of openness and space between the shots.  this allow the judges to see what is happening.


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> I did break an opponent's rib at that tournament a year or two ago.   She charged into a kick.  But really, I think the occasional minor injury is good to keep us humble and teach us not to complain.



Does this mean you are female or that you have mixed gender competitions?


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Does this mean you are female or that you have mixed gender competitions?


Mixed gender


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> Mixed gender



That is seriously stupid but then of course so is no touch, no contact sparring.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> That is seriously stupid but then of course so is no touch, no contact sparring.


If they are wearing a black belt and entering a tournament,  they should be able to hold their own.   The last one I was in, I had four competitors,  one was female. I don't usually see many of em, but they're  out there.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Most of the ladies just do kata. That's fine because they make it look better than I ever could.


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## Tez3 (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> If they are wearing a black belt and entering a tournament,  they should be able to hold their own.   The last one I was in, I had four competitors,  one was female. I don't usually see many of em, but they're  out there.



How will they hold their own when they aren't even touching their opponent? No one holds their own when it's not even touching. It's plain stupid, no contact, no touching 'sparring' is beyond ridiculous for adults. What's the point in doing it competitively? 'Oh look I could have hit you then'.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> How will they hold their own when they aren't even touching their opponent? No one holds their own when it's not even touching. It's plain stupid, no contact, no touching 'sparring' is beyond ridiculous for adults. What's the point in doing it competitively? 'Oh look I could have hit you then'.


 There's usually quite a bit of contact.  The "no contact" part is a mercy rule that I've not seen happen in three years competing with them.  It just doesn't happen.  Not sure why it's even in there.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> I'm looking for point fighting pointers.


- Left hand grab on your opponent's Karate Gi.
- Right fist punch on his chest.
- Scream as loud as you can.
- Look at the judge until he gives you that score.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> - Left hand grab on your opponent's Karate Gi.
> - Right fist punch on his chest.
> - Scream as loud as you can.
> - Look at the judge until he gives you that score.


Now that's ugly.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 10, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> Now that's ugly.


This is worse.

- Your opponent uses "control" punch at your face.
- You turn your head.
- Bite on your lips and let blood to come out.
- Loot at judge with blood on your lips.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> This is worse.
> 
> - Your opponent uses "control" punch at your face.
> - You turn your head.
> ...


You got that right.  Some competitors are just dumb lazy and dishonest. I know of a karate student who while in continued study, entered as a brown belt three years in a row. His school put on the tournament. Either he was the worst student ever ( he won each time) or his instructor cheated for him to compete in a lower class so as to give him the advantage.  Gonna be cheaters anywhere a snake can slither.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 10, 2017)

In the past, you won't get score if you use MT roundhouse kick. To get a score in Karate roundhouse kick, you have to kick with the ball of your foot and not with the instep of your foot (or the shin of your leg). Not sure that rule has been changed today or not.


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## CB Jones (Aug 10, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> In the past, you won't get score if you use MT roundhouse kick. To get a score in Karate roundhouse kick, you have to keep with the ball of your foot and not with the instep of your foot (or the shin of your leg). Not sure that rule has been changed today or not.



Where we compete the instep or the shin is ok for scoring.  Never heard of that rule that you have to use the ball of the foot.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 10, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> Where we compete the instep or the shin is ok for scoring.  Never heard of that rule that you have to use the ball of the foot.


That rule was used when I competed in the Texas Karate tournament back in the 70. I still remember that a hammer fist on top of the head won't give me score.

As far as I know, the Karate roundhouse kick is different from the MT roundhouse kick. In Karate practice, you usually hit with the ball of the foot.


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## CB Jones (Aug 10, 2017)

We have seen a lot of org that do not score hammerfists to the top of head but never seen the requirement to kick with the ball of foot for roundhouses.


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## Runs With Fire (Aug 10, 2017)

I've never thrown a round kick with the ball of the foot. Always the top or shin.  In this tournament,  I think shin is out, depends on the judges.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 10, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That rule was used when I competed in the Texas Karate tournament back in the 70. I still remember that a hammer fist on top of the head won't give me score.
> 
> As far as I know, the Karate roundhouse kick is different from the MT roundhouse kick. In Karate practice, you usually hit with the ball of the foot.


Interesting, our kicks don't actually line up with those, though they are supposedly derived from karate. The ball-of-foot position would go with our Rib Kick, which isn't entirely parallel to the ground, or to our Wheel Kick, which is. Our Roundhouse Kicks (both front leg and rear leg) are instep/shin kicks.


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## Buka (Aug 10, 2017)

I know some Karate guys who kick with the ball of the foot, but most don't. I know how, but don't use it, it's slower. If we were to spar for a half hour you might very well hit me with everything you throw, but I won't get hit with one ball roundhouse kick. Never have, never will.


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## JR 137 (Aug 10, 2017)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That rule was used when I competed in the Texas Karate tournament back in the 70. I still remember that a hammer fist on top of the head won't give me score.
> 
> As far as I know, the Karate roundhouse kick is different from the MT roundhouse kick. In Karate practice, you usually hit with the ball of the foot.


In the tournaments I've competed in, no contact was allowed to the top of the head, regardless of the technique thrown - hammer fist, ridge hand, axe kick; anything.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Aug 10, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> In the tournaments I've competed in, no contact was allowed to the top of the head, regardless of the technique thrown - hammer fist, ridge hand, axe kick; anything.


I thought "no head contact" is only below the black belt level. Head contact is allowed in the black belt level.


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## JR 137 (Aug 10, 2017)

Depends on the tournament.  Some will allow lower ranks head contact, others won't.  I haven't heard of no head contact for black belts before, but obviously they're out there too.

I competed in a few AAU karate tournaments a long time ago.  Controlled and light kicks to the head were allowed in all sparring divisions, and hand/elbow contact to the head wasn't in any division.

I'm currently in Seido Juku.  In our tournaments light head contact (hands and feet) is allowed in black belt divisions.  On paper, colored belts aren't allowed any head contact at all.  I've seen some judges allow it at the colored belt level (it has to be VERY controlled and light; hands and feet), and some not allow it at all.

I competed in a few knockdown tournaments a long time ago.  No hands/elbows to the head, but kicks were allowed full contact.  Across all divisions.  But knockdown isn't point fighting 

I've also seen fakes to the head allowed (when no head contact is allowed), and I've seen the rule of no punching past the head, meaning the fake has to be pulled back rather than intentionally miss.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the knockdown and point fighting tournaments I've competed in didn't allow anything to the top of the head; hands, elbows, knees or feet.  Nor any contact to the back of the head.  It was always the side of the head.  I'd imagine if someone dropped their head and there was contact to the top of the head it would be the referee's discretion, much like if strikes to the back aren't allowed but someone turned into one.

Every tournament is different and many will have subtle variations on rules.

Edit: this was supposed to include @Kung Fu Wang 's previous post.


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## KenpoMaster805 (Sep 17, 2017)

dude in karate there is no chest guard thats only in TKD hahahaha 

and you have to be really aware when your sparring like you have to know when they gonnna kick or punch and block them and look for an opening and bam hit them like with a kick a punch or a back hand strike look for the target and make sure you always keep your guard up at all time keep your hands up and dont let the opponent know you gonna do a kick or a punch and make sure you dont keep your body open an always moved outa the way when they kick and bam kick them thats all i gots to say


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## KenpoMaster805 (Sep 17, 2017)

Runs With Fire said:


> I've never thrown a round kick with the ball of the foot. Always the top or shin.  In this tournament,  I think shin is out, depends on the judges.


ya the shin not ball of the foot


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