# Depth of Korean arts



## Yu Sul Man (Aug 29, 2004)

Gretings all
 I had recently given up my Korean martial art studies for the Chinese martial arts. I had studied for 18 years and I have never seen any of my old systems BB, masters or Grandmasters do anything my current Chinese Master is able to do. This is in regards with the ability to fajin (emit energy) or Huajin (neutralize energy) . I am just wondering if the Korean style depth of knowledge is as rich as the Chinese styles are.? Just an opinion, perhaps there are some talented Korean Masters but I have met some of the old korean masters mentioned on these threads and have some personal videos of these guys and it seems Hapki do , Kuk sool Won and Hwarang Do have an impressive amount of techniques but the (kung fu) just doesnt seem to be there.
     JP


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## shesulsa (Aug 29, 2004)

Farang.

 May I ask who you studied HRD with?

 Thank you in advance.


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 29, 2004)

Everyone from the top to the bottom . West Coast. In privates and groups and seminars. From the 1983 to 2001.


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## shesulsa (Aug 30, 2004)

Such as?


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## shesulsa (Aug 30, 2004)

Yu Sul Man said:
			
		

> Everyone from the top to the bottom . West Coast. In privates and groups and seminars. From the 1983 to 2001.


 The top is DJN Joo Bang Lee.  The bottom is the white belt who started yesterday.  Could you be a little more specific?


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## Disco (Aug 30, 2004)

Shesula, read the last part of the first post. There seems to be a ???? with the wording. We may just have a  :feedtroll


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 30, 2004)

Troll no
DJN yes, Eric , Henry Jon Huppach, Carsten , Gil Kim the list goes on
WHat is the the attack for. A simple thread asking the depth of the Korean arts. She Sulsa, so who did you train with (if you dont mind me asking?) 
 Nothing wrong with studying from a White Belt as we are all to a certain degree White Belts


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## Disco (Aug 30, 2004)

WHat is the the attack for............. No attack, just a question. You were somewhat elusive with your 1st response. Perhaps you would care to clarify the last part of your first post - "Hapki do , Kuk sool Won and Hwarang Do have an impressive amount of techniques but the (kung fu) just doesnt seem to be there".  :idunno:


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## shesulsa (Aug 30, 2004)

There is no attack here, Yu Sul; just a question you did not seem to want to answer.  

 My teacher is KSN Carmen Gallino and his teacher is Master Ken Corona.

 If you learned from DJN Lee and the others you listed, you certainly should have been exposed to Ki development and power as this is part of the HRD curriculum.

 Sorry, sir, but this is very obviously AM JA.

 Welcome to MT and happy posting.


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## shesulsa (Aug 30, 2004)

Please allow me to introduce myself, Yu Sul.  My name is Georgia Ketchmark.

 And you are?


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 30, 2004)

Oh I know Carmen and his wife , very nice people he lived in new river before he moved. Yeah I am based in Arizona.

  I had asked your master if HRD had a system of nei gong like taiji he told me that if that what I was interested in then I should go with taiji as he hasnt seen it to the level of taiji. Maybe it is deeper, but DJN, doesnt discuss it or training exercises beyond the 5 basic kihap chagis and meditation. Maybe he changed but my friend studies with him currently and it is still much the same stuff , slight variations but samo samo  
   I wish i could have seen the vibration break that Master Hyun Joon Lee did on thats incredibile, thats what I am talking about, manifistations of jin in this case (dou jin Vibration energy). 
   Just a foot note I had the old syallabus up to fifth dan with me at the time and we looked at it and went through it. There are some cool ideas on paper but they never get shown or talked about.


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## shesulsa (Aug 30, 2004)

Wow - 18 years of study and you knew KSN Gallino?  You must at least hold 1st dan...?


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 30, 2004)

Yes I know Carmen when he was a white belt taking privates with Master Corona I was even there in his house for a BBQ dinner Where we watched demos of big mac tourneys . I was watching some video footage of an old arizona fair demo we did brings back some good memories. I was given the opp to take sam dan test with DJN but never did. (pm me) Anyway, they talk about the 5 stages of ki development but who actually has sen any of it, lightness,steel,numb,heavy and mental??  There has got to be more then the kihap cha gis to obtain those skills because doing them will not give you those skills.


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## glad2bhere (Aug 30, 2004)

Dear Yu Sul Man: 

The depth of any art is there. Where the communication breaks down is apparently on the part of the actors to enter into that communication. Let me give you a couple of examples. 

There are very accomplished Hapkido individuals, not so accomplished and then people who are very good for the particular level of Hapkido they practice. For instance, just because a person is accomplished at the yu sool level of Hapkido (essentially that level of the art focusing on physical attributes such as strength, mass, speed and leverage) does not automatically mean that they are accomplished at the hapki-yu-sool level which focuses to a greater degree on neuro-phisological attributes (such as balance, alignment, timing, and re-direction). And that does not mean that a person who is good at the hapki-yu-sool level is necessarily good at the yu-sool level. Just look at some of the older practitioners who MUST rely on the hapki-yu-sool because they no longer have the physical attributes to rely on weight or strength. And, of course, in our macho society people who practice the highest form of Hapkido (hapki-sool) usually are not identified as "real" Hapkido practitioners because of their reliance of power of character or personality to control a situation. Without some kind of extraordinary physical display many people have a hard tiime recognizing this as a refined level of the Hapkido arts. 

Let me also mention that a great many of the most accomplished people in Hapkido, Kum Bup and other varieties of KMA are not necessarily household names with their pictures on the front of magazines. In about 10 days I will be traveling to a little town 17 km south of Taesan to spend 6 days with an extraordinary Hapkido personality, Kim Yun Sang. As far as I know he does not have a chain of schools, has not been on the cover of TKD TIMES and could care less if people have heard of him or not. His skill after a lifetime of training and teaching (including over 20 years with Choi Yong Sul) reportedly borders on the super-human. 

In closing let me also say that I may have completely misunderstood the gauge by which you measure competence. For my part I have seen a lot of people who have excellent yu-sool level technique, no question about that. Problem is that when the bod starts to go the excuses, rationalizations, diminished performance starts. Since the ego has not been polished along with the technical skills these folks are unable to face things for what they are. The many things they do to avoid being held accountable for letting themselves and their training down often gives the Hapkido arts a bad name. If you can, work at not painting all Hapkido practitioners or arts with the same brush.  FWIW. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## Bob D. (Aug 30, 2004)

Wow, you studied with Carston? Please tell us about that.
I have a simular question to yours I think. Are there any short cuts to being able to utilize and demonstrate (ki) energy movement taught in HRD? Meditation and ki hap breathing will get you there if your really PERSISTANT and have guidance.
I think mastering body mechanics and "key" moves is more useful to martial arts but Ki is certianly intriguing.
Are you remaining anonymous for a reason or do you have a name?
regards, Bob Donnelly


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 30, 2004)

Hey guys thanks for the reply
  Bruce your answer is beyong profound a very insightful and wonderfully written reply. Thank you so much for taking the time. It has alot to do with ego , letting it go. My current Master stresses that without letting go of our pride you will never proceeed forward. 
 As in regards to the other question I didnt think I was anonomous(Sp) I had to fill out the form with my name and area located to join this group, i thought it was available to those who wanted to know , sorry I never did this foreum thing I am John . I met Carsten way back then he was studying at the headquarters I was the same rank at the time half black I drove over there with a guy named Ron T. I was too young too drive by himself. I think we stayed like 3 or 4 days that time. I met him alot over the years I was there when Master E. and Sabunim Carsten were learning the first 7 techniques of third dan tuk so ji ap sul it was preety cool DJN threw me and Sabunim around. Then one of them asked DJN a question (it is kinda hazy who ) and then next thing I knew I was blacked out. It was great then we all went to Costco and I got to push two shopping carts around (that sucked)
   What I think HRD deal with nei gong is that everyone there is too tight not relaxed (sung) think about how the classes are taught very disciplined alot of yelling , ki hap ing. Right there is issue number one. In  taiji we study using the whole body power via alignment, rooting, sung, Correct body mechanics and atmospheric conditions and egoi is what is lacking in HRD to make the Ki development work.  
 My humble theory anyway, I just havent met any HRD Masters with the incredibiley powerful soft skills as my teacher and his teacher.
   Thanks for the replies guys
        John


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## skaterlac (Aug 30, 2004)

Hey there YuSool man... Do I know you? Was I not at that same BBQ... suffering the consumtion of Habenero peppers?  I think some of the depth in the training comes from knowing yourself rather then knowing your teachers... what you think??artyon:


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## Yu Sul Man (Aug 30, 2004)

Hey Brother Greg

HHHahahaha yeah I remember that yeah we were there watching the videos together. I love Hwarang Do as it created many good friends for me, such as  skaterlac I wish it wasnt sooo political though. Yes knowing yourself is the very "Ki" to understanding development in nei gong. Knowing yourself is easier to type then to do, as we both know. We have to start some where and this looks like a good place to start.
    John


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## glad2bhere (Aug 31, 2004)

"....Bruce your answer is beyong profound a very insightful and wonderfully written reply...." 

You're welcome. I hope it helped the discussion. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce


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## MichiganTKD (Sep 5, 2004)

Bruce,

Very good post, and one applicable to any art. Some of the best Instructors in the world are ones who have never and will never be on the cover of magazines. It's not that they don't have the talent, it's that they don't feel the need to buy publicity like that.
There are many TKD Instructors whose certificates aren't worth the paper they're printed on. There are also some Instructors who could change your life after spending a training session with them or listening to them talk about Tae Kwon Do or life.


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