# Doing the unthinkable.....



## Chat Noir (Sep 17, 2011)

Hi folks,

I'm going to be starting Tai Chi this month. An article I read recently with Jet Li pushing to get Tai Chi out there had me thinking about my own issues with anxiety and knee problems (arthritis).  I'm 43 and the right knee has been especially painful but my doctor's appointment isn't until November so I wanted to see what I could do.  I'm not the Tai Chi type with my background in Judo, Wing Chun and JKD but the body speaks.....

I was looking online and found no sites that sell practice weapons and Tai Chi gear.  Can anyone recommend good links to check out?  Thank you.

Laura


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## clfsean (Sep 17, 2011)

Well weapons are everywhere... you just need a gim & do when ready. Don't worry about those. Your teacher should tell you when & probably where. You're in MA, betcha you can find them in Boston's Chinatown. 

As far as "gear"... what are you looking for?


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## Chat Noir (Sep 17, 2011)

Nothing expensive certainly, just practice weapons - wooden, something cheap that I can just use to go through the motions with.


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## oaktree (Sep 17, 2011)

> I'm going to be starting Tai Chi this month. An article I read recently with Jet Li pushing to get Tai Chi out there had me thinking about my own issues with anxiety and knee problems (arthritis).  I'm 43 and the right knee has been especially painful but my doctor's appointment isn't until November so I wanted to see what I could do.  I'm not the Tai Chi type with my background in Judo, Wing Chun and JKD but the body speaks.....
> 
> I was looking online and found no sites that sell practice weapons and Tai Chi gear.  Can anyone recommend good links to check out?  Thank you.


 Hmm I would not worry to much about weapons now since just learning the form is more than enough but you will most likely start off with a Jian also known as a sword.  You can get a wooden Jian anywhere. At Chen village sometimes they practice with sticks only. I think learning Zhan Zhuang or post standing will help you alot with the pain in your knees because you will be training the leg muscles. Also its important to learn how to sink and open the Gua area which your teacher will show you during the form and Zhan Zhuang. Also Zhan Zhuang may help you with your Anxiety by helping you calm down.

As for Taiji gear comfortable pants and a tshirt and some sneakers works for me.

Also speak with your teacher about your knee he may make some modifications to the form for you.


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## Chat Noir (Sep 17, 2011)

Good advice. I'll wait to see what he starts me on as it may well be posting and the basic steps for a while yet.  Thank you.


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## WC_lun (Sep 17, 2011)

You shouldn't need any practice weapons for at least a little while. Gotta learn to walk before you run   Just wear loose comfortable clothing and your instructor will let you know if you should purchase anything else, like an uniform


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## yak sao (Sep 18, 2011)

as a side note...I'm in my 40's too and 30 years of MA have taken their toll on my joints too.
I started taking glucosamine/chondroirin and it helped tremendously, you can get that cheap enough at Wal mart, give it a few weeks as it has to build up in your system...also, I take bromelain for inflammation when I have an occasional flair up...it's pineapple extract and you can get it at GNC.


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## Chat Noir (Sep 18, 2011)

yak sao said:


> as a side note...I'm in my 40's too and 30 years of MA have taken their toll on my joints too.
> I started taking glucosamine/chondroirin and it helped tremendously, you can get that cheap enough at Wal mart, give it a few weeks as it has to build up in your system...also, I take bromelain for inflammation when I have an occasional flair up...it's pineapple extract and you can get it at GNC.



Thank you for the info, I'll give it a try. 

Laura


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 19, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm going to be starting Tai Chi this month. An article I read recently with Jet Li pushing to get Tai Chi out there had me thinking about my own issues with anxiety and knee problems (arthritis).  I'm 43 and the right knee has been especially painful but my doctor's appointment isn't until November so I wanted to see what I could do.  I'm not the Tai Chi type with my background in Judo, Wing Chun and JKD but the body speaks.....
> 
> ...



Not the Taiji type :hmm: what exactly is the taiji type?

What style of Taijiquan are you talking about taking?

And as already stated, I would not worry about weapons since they tend to come later.


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## furtom (Sep 19, 2011)

Well, I'm glad you are doing the unthinkable. 

BTW, why "unthinkable? Because your background is more "external"? Is it because you have the impression taiji is for New Age Crispies who delude themselves? LOL

If you have a competent teacher, you'll soon figure out that's all not true. The problem is, good teachers are, in fact, hard to come by.

If the teacher's (and his students') main motivation is "health" then that's probably what you will get. If it's more martial, then you'll get a lot more.

As far as weapons, as has been said, you probably won't need them for a while. Your teacher will tell you when. If he's teaching new students a sword form or something, that would be unusual.

Good luck.


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## Chat Noir (Sep 19, 2011)

Xue Sheng said:


> Not the Taiji type :hmm: what exactly is the taiji type?
> 
> What style of Taijiquan are you talking about taking?
> 
> And as already stated, I would not worry about weapons since they tend to come later.



I do Judo, Wing Chun and JKD.  I'm into fighting styles that are soft but have spurts of aggression, not the flowery waterfall music in the background as I'm moving barely an inch a minute. I'm just not the type that can sit still long so this will be new for me.  Not being able to move my legs or run even to make the trains is depressing as Hell so I'm willing to give anything a try at this point. From what I understand I'll be studying Sun style Tai Chi. [FONT='Times New Roman', Times, serif]*PA KUA CHANG* and *HSING YI CHANG*[/FONT] are also taught.  Whatever that is......

Laura


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 19, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> I do Judo, Wing Chun and JKD.  I'm into fighting styles that are soft but have spurts of aggression, not the flowery waterfall music in the background as I'm moving barely an inch a minute. I'm just not the type that can sit still long so this will be new for me.  Not being able to move my legs or run even to make the trains is depressing as Hell so I'm willing to give anything a try at this point. From what I understand I'll be studying Sun style Tai Chi. [FONT='Times New Roman', Times, serif]*PA KUA CHANG* and *HSING YI CHANG*[/FONT] are also taught.  Whatever that is......
> 
> Laura



First I am sorry about the multiple links that are just there and not linked properly but every time I try and ling them to the words of link the videos the page crashes and after 4 tries I give up

Xingyiquan is all about fighting, attack is attack and defense is attack and the training, if trained correctly can be painful
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xingyiquan


Baguazhang is circle walking but I am not a bagua guy and there are some on MT that can explain it better than I. But I do know this a good Baguazhang person is a good fighter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguazhang


Interesting generalization you got there about taiji Word of advice, if you ever meet a real Zhaobao Taijiquan person dont tell them they cant fightif they take you seriously it will be a rather painful lesson


It is obvious that you have never seen real Taijiquan seriously taught by a real Taijiquan sifu. First there is no music but there are slow forms in the beginning but depending on style that can be mixed. Chen combines both fast and slow and my flavor of Yang has both fast and slow forms. 

Real Taijiquan is a martial art and is loaded with applications and Qinna. 

However I am not surprised at your view of Taijiquan since there are very few that are teaching is that actually know it but to be honest your attitude is not good and I doubt you will last long in the class with the view you have. But if it is what you are describing I doubt I would go at all. 

The reason I asked what style was because Northern Wu style and Wu style from the Wu family can be hard on the knees. Also due to low stances Chen can be a bit hard on the knees as well.

Yang style Taijiquan push hands  Tung Hu Ling 




 
Fu shengyuan  Yang style




 

Chen fajin  Chen Xiaowang




 
Chen Yu




 
Chen Zhenglei and Chen Bin




 
Chen Xiaowang Applications




 
Zhaobao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llsAtoGumtQ&feature=related

Zhaobao




 



By the way I went from Jujutsu and TKD to Taijiquan due to a back injury and I had the same exact view of Taiji then that you do now. And for 3 years with my first sifu I was proven right. But the last darn hear 17 with my current sifu I was proven very very wrong.


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## oaktree (Sep 20, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> I do Judo, Wing Chun and JKD.  I'm into fighting styles that are soft but have spurts of aggression, not the flowery waterfall music in the background as I'm moving barely an inch a minute. I'm just not the type that can sit still long so this will be new for me.  Not being able to move my legs or run even to make the trains is depressing as Hell so I'm willing to give anything a try at this point. From what I understand I'll be studying Sun style Tai Chi. [FONT='Times New Roman', Times, serif]*PA KUA CHANG* and *HSING YI CHANG*[/FONT] are also taught.  Whatever that is......
> 
> Laura


 Sun Taijiquan is composed of Taijiquan, Baguazhang and Xingyiquan from Sun Lu Tang. Sun Taijiquan is very distinct flavor of Taijiquan you can see alot of the Bagua influence in the form. Doing the form slowly does have its benefit IMO it allows you to understand the internal principle better then if you did the form fast. 
Baguazhang involves circle walking and palm changes the person who practices Bagua uses spiral movement to blend space and distance getting into a person's space or behind. Xingyiquan is like a burst of energy going forward.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 20, 2011)

Sun style (&#23403;&#27663 taijiquan

Sun Lu-t'ang (S&#363;n Lùtáng &#23385;&#31108;&#22530


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## Chat Noir (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the info and all the links.  First class is tomorrow night....will see how it goes.....


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## furtom (Sep 21, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> Thanks for the info and all the links.  First class is tomorrow night....will see how it goes.....



Looking forward to hearing about it.


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## Chat Noir (Sep 22, 2011)

First class - one of the ladies was knitting outside the steps of the church where the lessons were held.  There was "that" music you always hear when in these settings and when you think of Tai Chi. It was pretty stereotypical, but a nice crowd and teacher. I moved like a dork, felt stupid and I was so jumpy, I could do nothing slowly and with ease; I fidgeted the entire class. I do plan to stay with it though since I feel it'll eventually help me with my mobility and I might get more out of it than that if I hang in. We'll see where the river takes me....if only I were better able to go with the flow.

Laura


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## oaktree (Sep 22, 2011)

That music.....oh well it can not all be Megadeth at all times like in Xue sheng class :bangahead:
  It's good there was a good teacher sometimes with the group you get normal people but you always get that one guy who is like Tommy Chong.:uhyeah:
It's ok if you move like a dork if it makes you feel better my teacher has to grab my arms and move my body because sometimes I am to dumb to follow his moves:uhyeah: just stick with it and it will come naturally. Be patient sometimes its hard to learn watching the teacher. If you know which style you are learning you can watch videos to help you recall steps but becareful learning from videos  for example each top Chen stylist has their own particular flavor.


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## Chat Noir (Sep 23, 2011)

It's Yang style and you're right about YouTube - that was his very first warning second only to going at your own pace and not trying to copy what others are doing if it's not comfortable for where your body is at.  I think I just need to keep going and trying to adapt to a new style.  Coming from all combative styles, this is just going to be different entirely, but it could be the best thing I've started all year....who knows?


Laura


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## ride57 (Oct 8, 2011)

hi, hope you are liking the taichi. I recently started Chen style, and thought my knees would give me trouble, no left ACL (Hapkido sparring) and I had right knee surgery in August (meniscal tear practicing at the dojo Im at now) but the movements are not at all painful, in fact they are relaxing. I to felt like a complete doofus the first time. lol. (Im 54)

Class starts with the entire routine. I try my best to follow along, but depending what shoulder I look over, I will do the mirror image of what is being done (dohhh)

Then he has everybody do up to the point they are at and he walks around helping everybody. I have been adding a couple steps each time. then I repeat up to that point over and over till class is finished.

good luck.


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## Chat Noir (Oct 8, 2011)

Thank you.  I still feel like an idiot (the music they play isn't helping), but I'm hanging in. I do find it somewhat relaxing too, but my knees still ache. I have pain on the side of the right knee.  If I touch it, it hurts. It's painful to get up from sitting, bend or take the stairs. Even shifting in position hurts, believe it or not...I had the left knee operated on in July 2009 (Floating patella). I get wicked pain still with that knee but I suspect I have to build up the leg muscles. My right knee.... It was sudden, one day in July and not a gradual thing so I thought it was a tear from my Judo, but it clearly isn't.  I see the doctor to find out what it is on November 8th, so until then, I'm going to keep moving and hope the Tai Chi helps. It certainly can't hurt, so I'd like to stay with it for the long haul.


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## oaktree (Oct 9, 2011)

Open the kua more. Practice sinking correctly. Watch your alighment and structure. Discuss with Your teacher any concerns.


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## mograph (Oct 9, 2011)

Have you considered Alexander Technique? Sometimes a good AT person can point out the ways that we're moving and standing that cause trouble.

I say this because I've found it often helps to check out multiple disciplines and learn from them. Once I find what I'm doing wrong, I return to Tai Chi class or whatever.


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## Chat Noir (Oct 9, 2011)

It's worth looking into - especially if I can avoid surgery.  Thanks.


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## ride57 (Dec 15, 2011)

How is it going? no update in a while
I finally got through the first section. :headbangin: all moves correctly done with proper timing /speed etc? no... It will take time. I learn something every time,  though. (my motto: If I am not learning something new every day, I'm dead) And my knees aren't as painful as they used to be.


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## Chat Noir (Dec 16, 2011)

I had an MRI recently on my right knee which revealed that I have a crack in the bone that's leaking fluid in the knee.  All the physical therapy or exercise in the world would have had no affect.  Surgery will scheduled for next month.....and I'll have to stay away from martial arts for a while just to let my knee heal and do physical therapy later to get my mobility back.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 16, 2011)

Sorry to hear that but I am glad they found out what it was

Now a word of advice when it comes to recovery..... listen to the Doctor and therapists...it works much better that way and you actually recover..... take that from one who learned that lesson...the hard way...more than once.


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## oaktree (Dec 16, 2011)

Hi Chat Noir sorry about your knee if you are still motivated you can practice only the arm and hand motions and practice remembering the form.
 I know sometimes I just practice the hand motions and mentally remember the steps so I do not forget the form. Also You can watch and read videos and books
to help you understand things better. 

Watch these videos:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyeIWQ75ckY&feature=related
Listen to your doctors and good luck in your fast recovery


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## Chat Noir (Dec 16, 2011)

At the moment, training isn't on my mind.  In a short span of four weeks, my left analog hearing died and I had to buy another pair of hearing aids. I got two receiver in canal - huge mistake, $2,500 worth.  Both digitals no longer work and now both of my old analog are broken too.  I have one really old hearing aid that hope lasts long enough to something to get repaired and my job is moving me to a new department to support five departments by myself - and cover the secretary's phone.....I can't believe my luck.  When I am ever going to catch a break?  I wish I were back in Judo with a normal knee and no headaches.....


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## Chat Noir (Dec 20, 2011)

My Tai Chi teacher offered to let me jump into the class after the surgery and the green light for the doctor, which I plan to do because I clearly can't do Judo or Wing chun until I'm fully healed.  The Tai Chi has been going well and I'm doing better with the movements although I still move like a robot and not quite like my teacher obviously.  I wish I had more fluidity, but getting my knee fixed should help.  The only drawback to the class is that the price has jumped up from $70 for eight sessions to $90.......


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## Carol (Dec 20, 2011)

Chat Noir said:


> At the moment, training isn't on my mind.  In a short span of four weeks, my left analog hearing died and I had to buy another pair of hearing aids. I got two receiver in canal - huge mistake, $2,500 worth.  Both digitals no longer work and now both of my old analog are broken too.  I have one really old hearing aid that hope lasts long enough to something to get repaired and my job is moving me to a new department to support five departments by myself - and cover the secretary's phone.....I can't believe my luck.  When I am ever going to catch a break?  I wish I were back in Judo with a normal knee and no headaches.....



That's a lot to deal with.   Hope things get better for you soon.


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## mograph (Dec 20, 2011)

Try this: if I recall, either T.T. Liang or Cheng Man-Ch'ing (I can't find the reference) once had a dream that he had no arms and no legs. After that dream, he understood _song_. Try directing the moves from your core, leading the turning and movements with your core, center, or center of gravity. _Let_ your arms go where they need to go ... keeping them in the ballpark, if that makes sense. That might help you move a little less robotically. Do this with the movements for which you already know the choreography.
The idea of the dream is that you do the same thing, but if you imagine that you have no arms and legs, your arms will go where they need to go without _too much_ intervention on your part. Of course, first you have to have a rough idea where they need to go.

... and good luck with your healing.


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