# Silverback Gorilla vs Grizzly Bear



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

Earlier I made a thread called Lion vs Tiger, the biggest animal vs animal debate on the web. Well here is probably the second biggest.

 Who would win between a silverback gorilla and a grizzly bear. Let's say both weigh 400 pounds. Would the gorilla's superior strength be enough for the grizzly's advantage of having claws?

 I favor the gorilla.


----------



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh crap, I posted it in the wrong section. Can some moderator relocate the topic to it to the rightful section. Sorry for the the mistake. Thanks!


----------



## MA-Caver (Jul 29, 2005)

The gorilla is a vegetarian, a forager ... the Grizzly is a carnivore... a hunter
The gorilla does have strong forearms but that is to uphold his upper torso off the ground and to easily tear off stubborn foliage and to fight off aggressors. The Gorilla does posesses sharp canine teeth which can be used as weapons but only if the animal feels threatened and has no where to run, which will be his inital instinct at the first sign of danger. It's a safe bet to say that the gorilla does not have any predatory killer instincts. It does not attack without provocation. 

Grizzly: experienced hunter and (proven) savage predator. Razor sharp claws and crushing jaws with two sets of sharp canine teeth (upper and lower) all of which consitutes it's primary weaponry (offensive as well as defensive), thick fur and skin (defense), and a right hook that's been known to knock a full grown moose on it's ***. It also has instinct to inflict disabling/killing bites at the spinal column. 
While easily spooked, if it's cornered or hungry... it's not to be trifled with. 

My money... easily on the grizzly... I'm not sure but I think I saw something on Animal Showdowns from the Animal Planet where they matched a Grizz against a Siberian Tiger... computer says the Grizz won hands down... 
So pitting a non-aggressive animal against an aggressive one...  :idunno: C'mon ....


----------



## DngrRuss (Jul 29, 2005)

Silverback Gorilla VS a Grizzly Bear?  That sounds like my parents in a romantic mood.

 Hey, wait a minute- what does that make me then?

 No wonder my friends and students call me _Yeti_.  It all makes sense now.


----------



## Gemini (Jul 29, 2005)

Bear. I'd state a reason but MACaver pretty much covered it.


----------



## ginshun (Jul 29, 2005)

400 lbs is a huge gorilla, and a teeny tiny grizzly.  A big grizzly is what 1500lbs?  

 Even at equal weight though, I think a grizzly would whoop up on a gorrilla.


----------



## silatman (Jul 29, 2005)

Yep its the bear. 
Dont mean to hyjack the thread but maybe the question should be "What other animal matchups would be a good fight ?" 
I'm thinking Baboon v's Razorback Wildboar.


----------



## ginshun (Jul 29, 2005)

silatman said:
			
		

> Yep its the bear.
> Dont mean to hyjack the thread but maybe the question should be "What other animal matchups would be a good fight ?"
> I'm thinking Baboon v's Razorback Wildboar.


 A razorback would tear a baboon to pieces.


----------



## silatman (Jul 29, 2005)

ginshun said:
			
		

> A razorback would tear a baboon to pieces.



I dunno, a baboon is intelligent, fast, agile and savage, might be closer than you think.


----------



## Marvin (Jul 29, 2005)

anybody ever see the grizzly vs wolverine video? I cant remember what nature show it was on. but the wolverine made short work of the grizzly. didnt kill him but ran him off.
Pretty neat!
Marvin


----------



## Drac (Jul 29, 2005)

Tough Call..I go with the Bear..


----------



## Gemini (Jul 29, 2005)

Marvin said:
			
		

> anybody ever see the grizzly vs wolverine video? I cant remember what nature show it was on. but the wolverine made short work of the grizzly. didnt kill him but ran him off.
> Pretty neat!
> Marvin


If I remember correctly, there aren't many (if any) animals that will fair well against a wolverine. They're too small to kill a larger animal but with their speed and razor sharp claws are a formidable opponent even then.


----------



## hardheadjarhead (Jul 29, 2005)

Gorillas are strong, but really aren't that big.  One of the biggest in captivity was around 750 pounds, and lived at the St. Louis zoo.  Expect a max weight of about 400 pounds...and that is somewhat rare.

http://www.berggorilla.de/english/faq/dvers/fragen/gross.html

Grizzly bears are omnivores, not carnivores.  They weigh as much as your average gorilla at about one year of age, and weigh upwards of half a ton.

http://www.bear.org/Grizzly/Grizzly_Brown_Bear_Facts.html

A grizzly would put a gorilla down pretty quickly, I think.  If a gorilla were to smack a grizzly,  it'd be with a sort of palm strike...like a cuff to the side of the head.  A grizzly would do much the same, but with claws well over three inches in length that are capable of going through an iron cook pot.


Regards,


Steve


----------



## Martial Tucker (Jul 29, 2005)

Back to the topic of Bear vs Gorilla, as stated above, an avg grizzly is closer to 1000 lbs, and adding claws and "carnivorous attitude" I think it would have
 a huge advantage over a gorilla. In the wild, the gorilla may have superior quickness that might frustrate the grizzly's ability to attack, but in a hypothetical "cage match", where only one can come out alive, I would bet heavily on the grizzly. 

 Regarding bears, a more interesting matchup might be a gorilla vs a black bear. They are much more comparable in size, and the black bear is much less of a "killer/meat eater" by nature. 

 (Of course, that didn't mean much to me when one stuck his head in my tent in the middle of the night while camping in N. Wisconsin several years ago!)


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm split on this. One of my sparring partners' instructors was from old-school, Japanese hard-style, and retired to the northwestern states. Hunting, came accross a bear. Remembering the tales of Yamaguchi & the tiger/Oyama & the bulls, he wanted to see if he could take a bear. Flew into it with a reverse punch to the head, and continued his onslaught aggressively. Bear looked at him like he had issues, and wandered off deeper into ther woods. He related that, although bears ripple with movement like they might be soft & fat, that it was one of the hardest surfaces he'd ever struck. Didn;t even faze the bear, and decided later he was lucky the bear decided he was nuts, and not a threat.

I've seen footage of grizz vs. moose. I've also seen chimps turn over a jeep and beat each other savagely with awesome physical strength. I'm not convinced it's as easy a win as y'all are making it out to be: A silverback is a pretty strong critter. They use hammerfists naturally, and the steel cages used in their transport (if cranky) are substantial. Lots of accounts of men tangling with bears with knives, and coming out of it. Men tangling with big mad monkeys usually end in a couple of blows with the person dead.

Regards,

Dave


----------



## shesulsa (Jul 29, 2005)

**MODERATOR NOTE**

 Thread moved to Locker Room

 G Ketchmark / shesulsa
 MT Senior Moderator


----------



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

Gorillas are pretty strong though. I think that TV show Animal Face Off estimated them at 20 times that of a man which is very imrpessive. And in the same Animal Face Off episode the gorilla whooped the leopard pretty badly (you should have seen the beautiful chop). Of course a grizzly is a lot different though but at same the same time a grizzly at 400 pounds hasn't had a lot of meat to eat so it might even have less experiance. A gorilla has the strength to flip a family Sudan on its back. Let us not forget the superior intelligence over the the grizzly the gorilla has.

 In actuality a grizzly is a lot more vegietarion than many people think, their diet believe it or not makes up more grass than meat (over 90%!).

 Furthermore the male gorillas can live a somewhat life style. According to the book "BBC Gorillas" close to 40% of gorilla deaths are caused by fights with rival males meaning that they do have quite a bit of fighting experiance, maybe even more so than a grizzly. In fact a gorilla's fighting world maybe even similar to that of a lion, fighting rival males who want control of a lion pride (or in this case gorilla troop).

 If anyone has seen that show "The Most Extreme" the gorilla is pretty strong pound for pound, especially between 325-400 pounds;

http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/mostextreme/episode/episode_01.html

 """"Come to grips with the strongest animals on Earth! The gorilla can lift ten times it's own body weight, but, pound for pound, the African crowned eagle carries more than a cargo plane. Meet the top ten in most extreme strength. Come to grips with the strongest animals on earth! Which animals can take down prey much bigger than themselves, or carry weights ten times heavier than their own? The strongest humans can lift about 3 times their own body weight, but the average gorilla can lift 10 times it's own body weight! And, pound for pound, the African Crowned Eagle can carry more than a cargo plane, because it can fly carrying up to 4 times it's own weight. Something that would keep a cargo plane grounded. But which animal has the Most Extreme Strength? Find out on this top ten countdown."""

 Lifting 10 times your own weight (in this case 400 pound would lift 4,000 pounds) it pretty impressive! Doubt a grizzly can do that, of course a grizzly can do some amazing things too. But at same weight the gorilla seems to have the edge here.


----------



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

The gorilla also has superior reach, those long arms of the gorilla are much longer than the grizzlies.

 But on a interesting sidenote, can you imagine if Bruce Lee had the strength of a gorilla. Imagine what gigantic beasts he could take down. Or better yet Mas Oyama  . I mean Mas Oyama can take down large bulls with his average human strength, but with gorilla strength who knows what giant things he can take down!


----------



## MA-Caver (Jul 29, 2005)

hardheadjarhead said:
			
		

> Grizzly bears are *omnivores,* not carnivores.  They weigh as much as your average gorilla at about one year of age, and weigh upwards of half a ton.
> http://www.bear.org/Grizzly/Grizzly_Brown_Bear_Facts.html
> Regards,
> Steve


Ah yes you're right... I stand corrected... sheesh.  :asian:


----------



## Gene Williams (Jul 29, 2005)

I've done a good bit of work in natural history and zoology over the years. A gorilla is no match for a grizzly. Wouldn't even be close. There is no animal in the Americas that could handle a grizzly, with the possible exception of a large bull. In the novel, "Lonesome Dove," by Larry Mc Murtry, there is an account (probably taken from an old eyewitness account), of an encounter between a grizzly and a large red bull. Makes for good reading. A grizzly and a Polar Bear would make a good fight. But, if you want to match animals from different continents, try some of these: 1) Tiger vs Grizzly; 2) Salt Water Crocodile vs Great White Shark; 3) Rhino vs Grizzly or Polar Bear. The elephant gets a pass...no land mammal can handle a full grown bull elephant. Now, just for fun (and noise) in North America, how about a badger vs a wolverine.


----------



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

Gorilla standing no chance against a grizzly? I doubt it, gorillas are very strong. Mas Oyama killed large bulls, but even 5 Mas Oyamas wouldn't be able to kill a silverback male gorilla. The gorilla is stronger than the grizzly, both have about the same amount of fighting experiance believe it or not, gorilla may have even a bit more (grizzly when it rarelly hunts, and gorilla when it fights rival males). I think a silverback could at least best a 400 pound grizzly, perhaps a grizzly over 600 pounds would be a different story.


----------



## Gene Williams (Jul 29, 2005)

The record for a male gorilla in the wild is 482 lbs and 77 inches high. An adult male grizzly may weigh up to 1400 lbs and stand 12 feet tall on its hind legs. Its paws can be over 14 inches across, with claws up to 8 inches long. They can outrun a large dog for short distances. A grizzly's teeth can crush the leg bones of a moose or elk easily, and we saw a pick up truck in Montanna once that had the metal on the doors and hood ripped clean through by a grizzy's claws. They regularly get pissed off and flip over volkswagons and small vehicles. Grizzlies have been witnessed killing wolves with one blow from their paws, and they have bitten through the necks of moose on many occasions in order to kill them. I just don't think your largest silverback gorilla is any match.


----------



## Marginal (Jul 29, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Earlier I made a thread called Lion vs Tiger, the biggest animal vs animal debate on the web. Well here is probably the second biggest.
> 
> Who would win between a silverback gorilla and a grizzly bear. Let's say both weigh 400 pounds. Would the gorilla's superior strength be enough for the grizzly's advantage of having claws?
> 
> I favor the gorilla.


I think you've come up with a very shrinky Grizzly. Should be Gorilla vs Black Bear if you're going to mash those kind of stats. 

As it is, the Grizzly bear has size, strength and superior natural weapons in the Grizzly's claws and teeth. I doubt the Silverback would have a chance. 

Wolverene vs Fossa would be more interesting IMO.


----------



## arnisador (Jul 29, 2005)

A bear can take a lot of damage. I go with Bear Style over Ape Style.


----------



## Kane (Jul 29, 2005)

Marginal said:
			
		

> I think you've come up with a very shrinky Grizzly. Should be Gorilla vs Black Bear if you're going to mash those kind of stats.
> 
> As it is, the Grizzly bear has size, strength and superior natural weapons in the Grizzly's claws and teeth. I doubt the Silverback would have a chance.
> 
> Wolverene vs Fossa would be more interesting IMO.


 Actually female inland grizzlies can weigh as less as 450 pounds, so if a 450 pound silverback was to fight a 450 pound grizzly the silverback would win.

 Against a black bear it would be even easier. The black bear not only is smaller than grizzly, but a lot less robust and less strong. The silverback should not have much problem with a black bear.


----------



## Gene Williams (Jul 30, 2005)

A silverback gorilla would not likely be able to defeat a black bear, either. You don't know much about animals, do you?


----------



## silatman (Jul 30, 2005)

Marginal said:
			
		

> Wolverene vs Fossa would be more interesting IMO.




Whats a Fossa?


----------



## Kane (Jul 30, 2005)

Gene Williams said:
			
		

> A silverback gorilla would not likely be able to defeat a black bear, either. You don't know much about animals, do you?


 Really? Actually I do know quite a bit about these animals. It is rare for a grizzly to reach 12 feet tall and weigh 1,400 pounds, Kodiak grizzlies are 1,100 pounds on average. Coastal Brown Bears can get bigger but this is also rare.

 Inland grizzlies average less than 700 pounds for males, but grizzlies can weigh anywhere between 300-1,700 pounds. So a same-size battle is very likelly.

 What can a black bear do compared to a grizzly? Much more docile, the silverback is much stronger capable of lifting its own bodyweight. A silverback will usually fight to the death against armed poachers to protect his troop, while a black bear (who evolved as a prey species believe it or not despite being in the order Carniovra) would go up a tree.


----------



## Martial Tucker (Jul 30, 2005)

silatman said:
			
		

> Whats a Fossa?


 I was wondering the same thing......maybe it's an obnoxious neighbor of "Marginal", and he'd like to see the guy's butt kicked by a wolverine.....Just a guess, and of course, just kidding, but I've spent a lot of time in the wilderness, and I've never knowingly come across a "fossa".


----------



## FearlessFreep (Jul 30, 2005)

Fossa: World's Strangest Predator


----------



## Gene Williams (Jul 30, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Really? Actually I do know quite a bit about these animals. It is rare for a grizzly to reach 12 feet tall and weigh 1,400 pounds, Kodiak grizzlies are 1,100 pounds on average. Coastal Brown Bears can get bigger but this is also rare.
> 
> Inland grizzlies average less than 700 pounds for males, but grizzlies can weigh anywhere between 300-1,700 pounds. So a same-size battle is very likelly.
> 
> What can a black bear do compared to a grizzly? Much more docile, the silverback is much stronger capable of lifting its own bodyweight. A silverback will usually fight to the death against armed poachers to protect his troop, while a black bear (who evolved as a prey species believe it or not despite being in the order Carniovra) would go up a tree.


So, the gorilla would fight until the bear killed it. Fine.


----------



## Jonathan Randall (Jul 30, 2005)

Gene Williams said:
			
		

> I've done a good bit of work in natural history and zoology over the years. A gorilla is no match for a grizzly. Wouldn't even be close. There is no animal in the Americas that could handle a grizzly, with the possible exception of a large bull. In the novel, "Lonesome Dove," by Larry Mc Murtry, there is an account (probably taken from an old eyewitness account), of an encounter between a grizzly and a large red bull. Makes for good reading. A grizzly and a Polar Bear would make a good fight. But, if you want to match animals from different continents, try some of these: 1) Tiger vs Grizzly; 2) Salt Water Crocodile vs Great White Shark; 3) Rhino vs Grizzly or Polar Bear. The elephant gets a pass...no land mammal can handle a full grown bull elephant. Now, just for fun (and noise) in North America, how about a badger vs a wolverine.


True, Grizzlies are generally much larger than even the largest gorilla so I think that in most cases it probably would be no match.

However, we're comparing apples to oranges. Pound per pound the Gorilla is stronger, so if you took comparably equal sized members of both species it would not be so uneven (say 400 lbs. each). However, the Grizzly's charge is formidable - even were the opponent a creature of an equivalent size.

I think it also depends, given species members of equal size, where they fought. In the open as in much of Alaska - I think the bear would have the tactical edge. In a jungle - the Gorilla very well may. My concern in betting on the gorilla in a pound-for-pound match would be that the Gorilla might take the Grizzly's charge rather than move aside to counter as other animals might.

In any case, this is hypothetical. No sense for any contention over it. I WOULDN'T want to face either.

Now, the Grizzly and Polar Bear match would be the fight of the century!


----------



## Kane (Jul 31, 2005)

I think some of you are not seeing the match-up I have in mind here. Of course a 1,000 pound grizzly would beat a 400 pound silverback. However I am talking about if the two individuals were at the same weight, if both were at the same weight let us say 400 pounds then I am sure the silverback would own a grizzly. But a grizzly over 600 pounds will produce one dead 400 pound gorilla.


----------



## Gene Williams (Jul 31, 2005)

A 400 pound male grizzly would probably be a young male. Maybe not enough maturity to be really formidable. But, the grizzly is a natural hunter/killer. I think the hard-wiring has a lot to do with it.


----------



## bignick (Jul 31, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Inland grizzlies average less than 700 pounds for males, but grizzlies can weigh anywhere between 300-1,700 pounds. So a same-size battle is very likelly.


 Ah....except for the fact that I've never heard much about gorillas and bears living side by side....


----------



## Marginal (Aug 1, 2005)

Kane said:
			
		

> Actually female inland grizzlies can weigh as less as 450 pounds, so if a 450 pound silverback was to fight a 450 pound grizzly the silverback would win.
> 
> Against a black bear it would be even easier. The black bear not only is smaller than grizzly, but a lot less robust and less strong. The silverback should not have much problem with a black bear.



The point is, pitting a fully mature, full sized male silverback against an undersized grizzly doesn't do much to demonstrate the gorilla's superiority. If you're going to toss a smaller bear at one, you might as well just uses a black bear as they're naturally smaller than grizzlies, and a mature, full-sized bear would make for a more relevant comparison.  

(Back to the fossa, thought it'd be a good pairing due to both's reputations for tenacity. Wolverne probably outsizes it but that doesn't seem to be an issue. Just find a scrawny one, and bingo, fight's on.)


----------



## Gene Williams (Aug 1, 2005)

"I" before "e" except after "c." And sometimes "y."


----------



## Jmh7331 (Aug 1, 2005)

If you could get the bear to stay and fight, I think even a 400 lb bear would win.  They can take quite a beating and would only have to hit the gorilla once.  I've heard a grizzly can take the head clean off a horse with one swipe.


----------

