# Is a Stab a  "show stopper"??



## KPM (Feb 6, 2019)

In the recent thread that was locked someone commented that a stab will stop someone unless they are high on PCP.  I pointed out that this was wrong and that the person didn't know what they were talking about.  And for some odd reason I received a moderator's warning for it!   But anyway.  It is wrong.  A stab wound is only immediately incapacitating if it hits the heart directly or a major artery.  Otherwise, this is a matter of "hydraulics".   A person begins to fade out or lose consciousness due to blood loss from either internal or external bleeding.  If a major vessel is hit, this may be within 30 seconds or so!  If a major vessel is not hit....they will keep on coming for several minutes!   Regardless, unless you hit someone directly to the heart, they are unlikely to drop immediately!  So you have to be prepared to keep fighting, or defending.

Numerous people have been the victim of a stabbing and never realized it until later.  Often someone is surprised by an attacker from behind and they put up a fight to defend themselves.  What they initially thought was just a punch to the back, turns out to be a stab wound when they are assessing things afterwards!  

Stab Wounds Don’t Always Kill


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## Martial D (Feb 6, 2019)

Bait rejected


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## Danny T (Feb 6, 2019)

Nope. I've been stabbed. On my left side, went between the ribs and punctured my left lung. Didn't even know it fighting for several minutes before one of my buddies told me I was wounded and bleeding.


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## KPM (Feb 6, 2019)

Martial D said:


> Bait rejected



Not trying to bait you at all.  That's why I didn't mention your name.  I was just backing up what I said in the other thread.  I don't expect you to just take my word for it.  But I still think it is pretty ridiculous that I received a warning from the moderators for our exchange!


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## Martial D (Feb 6, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Nope. I've been stabbed. On my left side, went between the ribs and punctured my left lung. Didn't even know it fighting for several minutes before one of my buddies told me I was wounded and bleeding.


I had a similar experience, only it was a slash to the hand.

It's not always the physical damage that takes the fight out of you.


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## dvcochran (Feb 6, 2019)

There are many, many articles on people who were stabbed/shot multiple and lived through it. There are also many articles about people who were shot/stabbed in a non-critical and died because they simply believed they were going to die. The variability in peoples determination to live is just to broad to make the claim that stabbing is a show stopper.


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## punisher73 (Feb 6, 2019)

As always, "it depends".

I have been in "fights" that ended with a mere push to the attacker (after blocking two of his punches).  I ended one fight after slipping a kick and knocking the attacker into a wall.  NONE of those had any physical injury to the attacker, but they weren't used to violence and their commitment level wasn't high after they initiated the fight.

I only point that out because, a "stab" is not a fight ender just because you are stabbed.  There are the variables that they might not even know they are stabbed, or their commitment level is VERY high to survive.  I have seen people give up at the sight of their own blood without serious injury, again no significant reason other than low commitment to violence.


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## JowGaWolf (Feb 6, 2019)

Like everything else that kills you.  It depends on what you get stabbed with and where you get stabbed.  It makes all of the difference.  I figure as long as it doesn't hit any vital stuff, the body could probably take a beating with being stabbed.


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## CB Jones (Feb 6, 2019)

I have a theory I call "Stray Dog Luck".  Basically the more useless someone is...the more likely they are to survive danger.


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## Christopher Adamchek (Feb 6, 2019)

you are correct


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## Gweilo (Feb 6, 2019)

IMHO,  a single or secondary stab will not stop the fight, (I myself was stabbed twice and thought I was punched until the blood on my clothing cooled, then it was a phycological reaction,  upon reflection), however now days the game has changed, when i was stabbed it was a short lock knife, and like most people never saw the knife, now days it is what some might call the sewing machine, repeated fast continuous strikes to the kidneys,  or stomach, which means it is more likely to catch an organ or arteries, and some of the knives used are something a cling on in star trek would use. As JGW said depend were. @KPM forget the point for past threads, I got one too, take it on the chin and move on.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 6, 2019)

A single stab may or not end the fight. The crux of the matter (as mentioned in the previous thread) is whether it ends the fight _immediately_. Usually it won’t.

This is part of what makes a knife duel so dangerous. Landing a fatal thrust (or two or three) doesn’t do you much good if your opponent can deliver his own lethal blow a second or two later.


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## KPM (Feb 6, 2019)

Once again, I've received a warning for what I've posted on this thread for "baiting, trolling or aggressive behavior"!  Guys, I'm done with this forum!  Find me on facebook if you want to talk.


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## Flying Crane (Feb 7, 2019)

KPM said:


> Once again, I've received a warning for what I've posted on this thread for "baiting, trolling or aggressive behavior"!  Guys, I'm done with this forum!  Find me on facebook if you want to talk.


I’m guessing it is because you called out the moderators in this thread, for giving you a warning in a prior thread.  That’s just bad form and im not surprised if the mod staff found that to be unacceptably rude.  If you want to debate an infraction given by the mods, do it with them directly and in private, not in another open discussion thread.

If you hadn’t called out the mods, I suspect this thread would be just fine.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 7, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> A single stab may or not end the fight. The crux of the matter (as mentioned in the previous thread) is whether it ends the fight _immediately_. Usually it won’t.
> 
> This is part of what makes a knife duel so dangerous. Landing a fatal thrust (or two or three) doesn’t do you much good if your opponent can deliver his own lethal blow a second or two later.


I made that same point in a thread recently. It's not just about who stabs first - you still gotta survive the end of the encounter.


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## KPM (Feb 7, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> I’m guessing it is because you called out the moderators in this thread, for giving you a warning in a prior thread.  That’s just bad form and im not surprised if the mod staff found that to be unacceptably rude.  If you want to debate an infraction given by the mods, do it with them directly and in private, not in another open discussion thread.
> 
> If you hadn’t called out the mods, I suspect this thread would be just fine.



Nope.  The warning was specifically for "baiting, trolling, or aggressive posting."  Nothing was said about my comments concerning the moderator's actions.   And you cannot discuss an infraction given by the mods because they refuse to respond.  The PM I received about this thread didn't even have an active "reply" button.


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## lklawson (Feb 7, 2019)

The Dubious Quick Kill, parts I & II by Maestro Frank Lurz

The Dubious Quick Kill, part 1
The Dubious Quick Kill, Part II

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 8, 2019)

lklawson said:


> The Dubious Quick Kill, parts I & II by Maestro Frank Lurz
> 
> The Dubious Quick Kill, part 1
> The Dubious Quick Kill, Part II
> ...


Thanks for posting that, Kirk. I'll be discussing that the next time we come around to defending against sharp stuff.


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## Christopher Adamchek (Feb 8, 2019)

Good read @lklawson , i liked it - it brought up some great points
also reminded me some kenjutsu and native american techniques ive seen were it looks like "overkill" continuing to attack the enemy after inducing a "fatal" strike to speed up the kill so their opponent cant induce a critical strike while they are dying


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## lklawson (Feb 8, 2019)

Christopher Adamchek said:


> Good read @lklawson , i liked it - it brought up some great points
> also reminded me some kenjutsu and native american techniques ive seen were it looks like "overkill" continuing to attack the enemy after inducing a "fatal" strike to speed up the kill so their opponent cant induce a critical strike while they are dying


If he's worth stabbing once, he's worth stabbing 3 times.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## elder999 (Feb 8, 2019)

Danny T said:


> Nope. I've been stabbed. On my left side, went between the ribs and punctured my left lung. Didn't even know it fighting for several minutes before one of my buddies told me I was wounded and bleeding.


*This.*
And, _it depends_.

Most people who are stabbed and survive it remark that they didn't know they were stabbed at first. Often, they thought they were being punched, and kept fighting. There's a video out there somewhere of a guy who gets stabbed, beats up the guy who stabbed him, then dies.


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## lklawson (Feb 8, 2019)

elder999 said:


> *This.*
> And, _it depends_.
> 
> Most people who are stabbed and survive it remark that they didn't know they were stabbed at first.


Yup.  Over and over again.



> Often, they thought they were being punched, and kept fighting. There's a video out there somewhere of a guy who gets stabbed, beats up the guy who stabbed him, then dies.


Was that one from Brazil?  Outside a bar, I think, right?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Deleted member 39746 (Feb 8, 2019)

As in actual damage done speaking and not psychology, the stab wont kill you unless its in certain areas.       Better way to word these arguments, i believe "physiologically speaking" might work better as a set of words.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 8, 2019)

Rat said:


> As in actual damage done speaking and not psychology, the stab wont kill you unless its in certain areas.



Well duh. That's true of any injury.

Stab wounds are far more lethal than slashes or cuts. Absolutely. End of discussion.
Doesn't mean you're going to die fast, though.
I've personally wrestled with a guy who had a 3cm wound in his left ventricle for about 3 minutes before he bled out enough to pass out so we could work on him. And that was *after* EMS arrived and transported him to the ER. So I'd guesstimate he was still fighting at least 10 minutes after he was stabbed.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Feb 8, 2019)

The "S cut" is more effective than the stab. But you have to use "reverse dagger hold".

- A horizontal cut to the belly.
- When your opponent bends back to dodge it, you cut his throat.

The "S cut" can be seen in this clip.


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## lklawson (Feb 8, 2019)

Rat said:


> As in actual damage done speaking and not psychology, the stab wont kill you unless its in certain areas.


 Neither will a cut, or a gunshot, or a bludgeon, or pretty much anything else for that matter.

According to Hochheim's well-researched book, "Military and criminal forensic science reports that stabbing yields both a higher death rate and, perhaps more importantly, a quicker death rate than slashing provides."

Peace favor your sword (mobile)


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 8, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "S cut" is more effective than the stab. But you have to use "reverse dagger hold".
> 
> - A horizontal cut to the belly.
> - When your opponent bends back to dodge it, you cut his throat.
> ...



Based on 30+ years actually treating these wounds, I'm going to say no. It's not.
I've seen lots of people with their throats cut. Not very many died. Why? Because the things you need to cut are pretty damn deep in the neck.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> Based on 30+ years actually treating these wounds, I'm going to say no. It's not.
> I've seen lots of people with their throats cut. Not very many died. Why? Because the things you need to cut are pretty damn deep in the neck.


Does that include the major arteries? Or are those cuts often too frontal?


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 9, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Does that include the major arteries? Or are those cuts often too frontal?



You mean the carotids? They're quire deep. 
Cuts tend to be shallowest at their start and end points. So, you slash them ear to ear. Guess where it's shallowest? Yup. Right over where those arteries are.
If you want to cut someones carotid, the best plan is to stab them below the ear and then drag the blade forward. Or stab them several times.


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## Bill Mattocks (Feb 9, 2019)

"Nothin' but dumb luck."

"Yeah. But that counts too."


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## Deleted member 39746 (Feb 9, 2019)

For my previous post it was a example and i forgot to edit out when i found the correct word and fix it.           That is the first half about stabbing, not me stating using the word physiologically.   





Dirty Dog said:


> Based on 30+ years actually treating these wounds, I'm going to say no. It's not.
> I've seen lots of people with their throats cut. Not very many died. Why? Because the things you need to cut are pretty damn deep in the neck.



Standard tactic i have seen for that is just to stab in the throat. Obviously cited from soldiers who do CQC and that tends to be a sentry elimination thing.   (tendency to try and pull the knife forward is there as well, but logically speaking if you stab them several times it might compensate for that) 

See you do learn some things from memoirs/ people speaking about their military training/experience for interviews. 


I personally would prefer stabs over cuts unless the blade in question can lop off limbs then its cuts over stabs unless there is no room for it.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 9, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> You mean the carotids? They're quire deep.
> Cuts tend to be shallowest at their start and end points. So, you slash them ear to ear. Guess where it's shallowest? Yup. Right over where those arteries are.
> If you want to cut someones carotid, the best plan is to stab them below the ear and then drag the blade forward. Or stab them several times.


They look closer to the surface in the anatomy illustrations.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 9, 2019)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> The "S cut" is more effective than the stab. But you have to use "reverse dagger hold".
> 
> - A horizontal cut to the belly.
> - When your opponent bends back to dodge it, you cut his throat.
> ...


Rather than the neck, I've been told to aim for the knife. The theory is that someone can fight back after being stabbed/sliced in the neck, but if they've got blood in their eyes it's a lot tougher to fight, both from pain, reflex, and blindness (eye not working or blood in eyes).

I've yet to have an opportunity to stab someone in either though, so it's all theoretical for me.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 9, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> They look closer to the surface in the anatomy illustrations.



They're not 3D, and the surface tissues have been removed.



kempodisciple said:


> Rather than the neck, I've been told to aim for the knife. The theory is that someone can fight back after being stabbed/sliced in the neck, but if they've got blood in their eyes it's a lot tougher to fight, both from pain, reflex, and blindness (eye not working or blood in eyes).
> 
> I've yet to have an opportunity to stab someone in either though, so it's all theoretical for me.



I've seen tons of people with cuts on their foreheads. I've had them myself. Never seen that as stopping someone. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, but not so much that you can't see.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 9, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> I've seen tons of people with cuts on their foreheads. I've had them myself. Never seen that as stopping someone. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, but not so much that you can't see.


Actual eye vs. forehead. Again though, I have no idea how difficult the accuracy is for that, and what we train for more than that is making sure we're in a position to not get stabbed back while we stab, and to stab multiple times. Even that's theoretical for me though, since I've got no intention in getting in any fights, knives or otherwise.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 10, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Actual eye vs. forehead. Again though, I have no idea how difficult the accuracy is for that, and what we train for more than that is making sure we're in a position to not get stabbed back while we stab, and to stab multiple times. Even that's theoretical for me though, since I've got no intention in getting in any fights, knives or otherwise.



Well... I've only got one eye. Doesn't really affect me at all. Didn't stop me when I lost it, either.
As for the idea that you're going to kill them with a stab to the eye...
Maybe. If you're using a really thin and narrow blade. Like an ice pick.


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## dvcochran (Feb 10, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> They're not 3D, and the surface tissues have been removed.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen tons of people with cuts on their foreheads. I've had them myself. Never seen that as stopping someone. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, but not so much that you can't see.



Agree. I have a scar from 12 stitches directly on my right eyebrow from a dog chain sucker punch. If I had not gotten my hands on the guy before I realized I was bleeding I probably would have gotten boot stomped. It was summertime and I still remember how fast my eye kept filling with blood. It is unsettling but should not stop a person in a "have to" situation.


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## lklawson (Feb 11, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> You mean the carotids? They're quire deep.
> Cuts tend to be shallowest at their start and end points. So, you slash them ear to ear. Guess where it's shallowest? Yup. Right over where those arteries are.
> If you want to cut someones carotid, the best plan is to stab them below the ear and then drag the blade forward. Or stab them several times.


Are you familiar with the Camp X / Fairbairn sentry removal throat attack?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Feb 11, 2019)

Rat said:


> I personally would prefer stabs over cuts unless the blade in question can lop off limbs then its cuts over stabs unless there is no room for it.


Thrusts are much harder to perform while protecting yourself from a parry or counter-attack.  Cuts are much easier to perform successfully while protecting yourself from counter-attacks.  The crossing movement of a cut forms a natural defense for a counter-cut or counter-thrust.

Footwork, setup, and evasive body & hand movement are, therefore, usually much more critical for a successfully thrust than a successful cut, particularly with larger blades (bowie knife and up).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson (Feb 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> Rather than the neck, I've been told to aim for the knife. The theory is that someone can fight back after being stabbed/sliced in the neck, but if they've got blood in their eyes it's a lot tougher to fight, both from pain, reflex, and blindness (eye not working or blood in eyes).
> 
> I've yet to have an opportunity to stab someone in either though, so it's all theoretical for me.


Aim for what you can hit.  There are some places on the body more vulnerable to cuts and some places more vulnerable to thrusts.  There are some places which will essentially only produce pain and others which will cause immediate disabling injuries to the limb or the area, while others will take time.  It takes *TIME* to bleed out.  Dying ain't dead!

Aim for what you can hit but have enough understanding of human anatomy to know what the likely results will be of your hit.  A cut to the outside of the wrist will cause pain and bleeding but may make it impossible for the person to let go of his weapon, whereas a cut to the inside of the wrist could make it impossible to hold on to it.

There's only one "magic button" and that's a CNS hit.  Base of the neck or brain-box.  Everything else is a crap shoot.  Did you dig in deep enough to get the artery/vein?  Did you do enough damage to the joint, ligaments, or muscle to incapacitate that limb?  If you broke a bone, was it enough to stop that limb from being effective?  If you thrust into the thorax, what did you hit?  Was it a lung and how long will it take for the fighter to stop from a collapsed lung?  (it could be a fairly long time)  

Dying ain't dead and while he's dying he has a fairly long time to return the favor.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Martial D (Feb 11, 2019)

Ok so, I was the one that initially made the claim that the first hit generally ends a knife fight. Some good points were raised, and examples, of how people can and do keep fighting after theyve been hit, but generally only when they don't KNOW they've been stabbed. 

What people that've never been in a high stress life or death situation like that might not realize, is that psychological damage can stop you too. Most people, in my experience, go into shutdown/panic mode once they grok the sight of their own blood.

Now, what this thread DOESNT have is examples to support any given point of view. I have brought a few.

*WARNING. THESE LINKS ARE NSFW, do not view with children around, if you are squeamish, or just would rather not see examples of real knife fights.

IF THE MOD TEAM THINKS THIS IS GOING TO FAR, FEEL FREE TO DELETE THIS.

EXAMPLE #1 - machete fight
As soon as the older man is hit, the fight leaves his body.

Example #2
Same here. you can see as soon as the one man realizes he is stabbed, he no longer wants to fight.

Example#3
in this one the man drops as soon as he realizes he's been stabbed

*


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## lklawson (Feb 11, 2019)

Martial D said:


> Ok so, I was the one that initially made the claim that the first hit generally ends a knife fight. Some good points were raised, and examples, of how people can and do keep fighting after theyve been hit, but generally only when they don't KNOW they've been stabbed.
> 
> What people that've never been in a high stress life or death situation like that might not realize, is that psychological damage can stop you too. Most people, in my experience, go into shutdown/panic mode once they grok the sight of their own blood.
> 
> ...


Psychological stops are real and a well-known phenomenon.  But you can't depend on it.  The person has to know he's been hit, has to believe that it's "bad," and has to decide that he's not going to fight through it.

4 Ways to Stop an Opponent by Using a Knife

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 11, 2019)

Martial D said:


> Ok so, I was the one that initially made the claim that the first hit generally ends a knife fight. Some good points were raised, and examples, of how people can and do keep fighting after theyve been hit, but generally only when they don't KNOW they've been stabbed.
> 
> What people that've never been in a high stress life or death situation like that might not realize, is that psychological damage can stop you too. Most people, in my experience, go into shutdown/panic mode once they grok the sight of their own blood.
> 
> ...


There's no question that a non-lethal (or non-immediately-lethal) strike _*can*_ end a fight immediately. Heck, some people give up as soon as they get a bloody nose or a black eye.

The question is whether you can reliably count on that happening. The context of the original discussion was a knife duel where you might have just delivered a mortal wound but you are still in arms reach of an armed opponent who still has time to return the favor.

The links posted by Kirk earlier in the thread gave historical examples of duels where one opponent was severely wounded, had plenty of time to realize it, and then kept fighting anyway, sometimes killing their opponent.

Some people will keep going like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Some people will go into shock and die from what shouldn't even be a life-threatening injury. It's safest to not assume any particular outcome.


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## Martial D (Feb 11, 2019)

Tony Dismukes said:


> There's no question that a non-lethal (or non-immediately-lethal) strike _*can*_ end a fight immediately. Heck, some people give up as soon as they get a bloody nose or a black eye.
> 
> The question is whether you can reliably count on that happening. The context of the original discussion was a knife duel where you might have just delivered a mortal wound but you are still in arms reach of an armed opponent who still has time to return the favor.
> 
> ...



Yes, there are a lot of counterexamples composing of heresay. Ive personally never seen any evidence of someone continuing to fight after being stabbed and leaking all over the place. Im sure it can happen(such as people that are severely drugged out or mentally ill), but it doesn't seem to happen very often. Those three examples come from a repository of hundreds, that all play out in a very similar way. I've personally seen a few people take stab wounds, and those all played out the same way too.

Maybe you have a different experience.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 11, 2019)

lklawson said:


> Are you familiar with the Camp X / Fairbairn sentry removal throat attack?
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk



I am, of course.
Of course, this attack was intended for an extremely specific situation, from ambush. And I would maintain that it would be better applied with the initial attack being a stab, rather than a blunt strike.


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## lklawson (Feb 11, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> I am, of course.


Cool. Then you are familiar with the technique.




> Of course, this attack was intended for an extremely specific situation, from ambush. And I would maintain that it would be better applied with the initial attack being a stab, rather than a blunt strike.


sure. I was just curious if you were familiar with it since it will seem to stack so well with what you are describing.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 11, 2019)

lklawson said:


> I was just curious if you were familiar with it since it will seem to stack so well with what you are describing.



It does. 

I will say that in the "classic" illustrations of this technique, I see two problems. 
One is, as I said, the blunt strike rather than a stab. The cut itself is fairly unlikely to open the carotid, unless you execute it perfectly. For one thing, the head needs to be rotated. The illustrations usually show this, but it's not often mentioned specifically in the texts that I've seen. It's classically done starting under one ear and ending at the other. It needs to be continued past the ear to have enough depth to the cut to reach the carotid.

The other is the cut itself. As it's shown in the works I've seen, it's very high. Like right under the chin. I would actually suggest that lower would be better. So as to open the trachea below the larynx. If you disconnect the larynx from the lungs, it's really really difficult to make any noise.

That's important because of the specific circumstances for which this attack is meant.

Without the stab and head turn, there's a good chance this will not hit the carotid. But it will almost certainly sever the external jugular. That's not a super fast kill, but it is fairly quick. And if they can't make any noise, it doesn't really matter if it takes a couple minutes.

Goodness, we're a gruesome bunch...


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## elder999 (Feb 11, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> You mean the carotids? They're quire deep.
> Cuts tend to be shallowest at their start and end points. So, you slash them ear to ear. Guess where it's shallowest? Yup. Right over where those arteries are.
> If you want to cut someones carotid, the best plan is to stab them below the ear and then drag the blade forward. Or stab them several times.


Try to cut their head off......pretty much.


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## dvcochran (Feb 11, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It does.
> 
> I will say that in the "classic" illustrations of this technique, I see two problems.
> One is, as I said, the blunt strike rather than a stab. The cut itself is fairly unlikely to open the carotid, unless you execute it perfectly. For one thing, the head needs to be rotated. The illustrations usually show this, but it's not often mentioned specifically in the texts that I've seen. It's classically done starting under one ear and ending at the other. It needs to be continued past the ear to have enough depth to the cut to reach the carotid.
> ...


That was....very detailed. Hmm.....


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## lklawson (Feb 12, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> It does.
> 
> I will say that in the "classic" illustrations of this technique, I see two problems.
> One is, as I said, the blunt strike rather than a stab. The cut itself is fairly unlikely to open the carotid, unless you execute it perfectly. For one thing, the head needs to be rotated. The illustrations usually show this, but it's not often mentioned specifically in the texts that I've seen. It's classically done starting under one ear and ending at the other. It needs to be continued past the ear to have enough depth to the cut to reach the carotid.
> ...


I was thinking of this one:
Thrust in and then rip it forward and out, like doing a pushup.







Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 12, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> That was....very detailed. Hmm.....



Well, if an ER nurse with a graduate degree in physiology and a couple years of MA training is going to talk about ways to kill, what do you expect? 



lklawson said:


> I was thinking of this one:
> Thrust in and then rip it forward and out, like doing a pushup.



Gotcha. Yes. The versions I've seen start with a hammerfist to that area. This is pretty much exactly what I'm advocating (as a theoretical discussion only. Do not try this at home).


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2019)

Dirty Dog said:


> Do not try this at home).


Well, my morning plans are shot.


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## drop bear (Feb 13, 2019)

lklawson said:


> I was thinking of this one:
> Thrust in and then rip it forward and out, like doing a pushup.
> 
> 
> ...



You wouldn't stab yourself?


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## Rayrob (Feb 13, 2019)

Synchronised stabbing, they should make it an Olympic event.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dvcochran (Feb 13, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Well, my morning plans are shot.


At least you did not mention your wife in that comment.


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> You wouldn't stab yourself?


I thought the same thing looking at that. That knife looks long enough to go right through. With that thing, I'd maybe favor the subclavian stab (offered as an alternative in at least one of the manuals describing sentry takeout).


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## Gerry Seymour (Feb 13, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> At least you did not mention your wife in that comment.


No, no. For her, it has to look like an accident. Double-indemnity clause, you know?

EDIT: Yes, this is what passes for humor in our household.


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## lklawson (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> You wouldn't stab yourself?


The techniques were successfully used a bunch during WWII, so... no.  You wouldn't.


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## Dirty Dog (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> You wouldn't stab yourself?



Not bloody likely. You're penetrating a body, not a sheet of paper.


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## drop bear (Feb 13, 2019)

lklawson said:


> The techniques were successfully used a bunch during WWII, so... no.  You wouldn't.



So nobody stabbed themselves doing that?


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## Martial D (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> So nobody stabbed themselves doing that?


I was thinking the same thing. That knife is aimed at his own clavicle area.

Best not push too deep!


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## lklawson (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> So nobody stabbed themselves doing that?


 not that I've ever heard of. And I've got friends who researched into it.


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## lklawson (Feb 13, 2019)

Martial D said:


> I was thinking the same thing. That knife is aimed at his own clavicle area.
> 
> Best not push too deep!


That's a trick of camera perspective. It really isn't.


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## drop bear (Feb 13, 2019)

lklawson said:


> not that I've ever heard of. And I've got friends who researched into it.



What about Vietnam?


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## lklawson (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> What about Vietnam?


What about it?


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## drop bear (Feb 13, 2019)

lklawson said:


> What about it?



They are not whopping great big germans with a heap of mass between the knife and yourself. 

I have friends who researched in to it.


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## lklawson (Feb 13, 2019)

drop bear said:


> They are not whopping great big germans with a heap of mass between the knife and yourself.
> 
> I have friends who researched in to it.


the knife doesn't actually get pointed at your own body, that's just a trick of perspective in the photo. The knife should actually be roughly parallel to the plane of your chest. It stabs in to the throat, behind the carotid and larynx, and then is ripped forward and out.


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## psycosteve (Jan 13, 2022)

Years ago I was doing security in MD on the border of PG county and SE DC. I was attacked by a knife-wielder and deflected it into his chest.  I incorrectly assumed that once he was stuck he would be more compliant but that did not happen. It took me twisting the knife (pain compliance) to get him into handcuffs.  I was soaked in his blood but I got lucky as I did not get anything from the attacker as he had HIV and the whole Hepatitis alphabet from years of shooting up.   With the risk of getting something really nasty from contamination by blood-borne dangers. I just do not understand how blade combat is even still a thing.


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## JowGaWolf (Jan 13, 2022)

psycosteve said:


> I just do not understand how blade combat is even still a thing.


People still fight with knives. people still get stabbed with knives.  Depending on where your live, there may be more or less of it happening.


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## dvcochran (Jan 13, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> People still fight with knives. people still get stabbed with knives.  Depending on where your live, there may be more or less of it happening.


A statistic that I found interesting is the correlation between population/housing density and gun vs. knife. Statistically, in Less populated/housed areas, knives are used about 30% more than guns. 
Go figure.


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## J. Pickard (Apr 1, 2022)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/DocumentedFights/comments/tsu9p3
NOT MY VIDEO. I DID NOT TITLE IT

If show stopper is defined as "immediately ends the confrontation" then no.


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