# The animals in Kempo/Kenpo



## KempoGuy06 (Jan 17, 2007)

Well...I know the five animals that we use in SKK are the tiger, crane, leopard, dragon and snake. 

Why *these* five animals in SKK?
Are there other animals? What are they? 
Why didnt the other ones make the cut?

Im a little curious. I got to thinking and realized i dont know that much other than a few pieces of information. I thought it would be to learn more. Share your knowledge if you dont mind or point me in the right direction.

B


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## Flying Crane (Jan 17, 2007)

This topic has come up in some other threads.  Check out this one, you might find it helpful:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42205&highlight=kenpo+animals


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 17, 2007)

I have wondered about this myself from time to time.  I can see that some of the animals relate to the elemental agencies,

Tiger  metal
Dragon  wood
Snake  water (though it is usually the tortoise)

The crane and the leopard are not normally associated with the elements.

Each animal has a traditional set of attributes associated with combat as well.

Tiger  destructive power
Dragon  vicious speed
Snake  mysterious movement
Crane  graceful movement
Leopard  blinding speed

I suppose that when viewed in this light the form and techniques associated with the five animals would produce a strong fighting art.

It does have to be remembered, however, that the animal forms were the basis of the ancient shaolin art.  After mastering these forms students might move on to more esoteric forms like Buddha Palm.


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## Blindside (Jan 17, 2007)

I know zip about Shaolin Kenpo, but for some reason the Tracy Kenpo system sells these images of the 5 animals, which completely baffles me.  Tracy Kenpo is far enough down the Parker path that you move like, well, like a human.  I have heard some people try to categorize movement into these animals and that just confuses me.  Tell me "snap that jab out and back, quick!" rather than "fight him snake style"  The animal analogies just don't work for me, and I suspect they are more of a marketing gimmick than a true training tool.  

Lamont


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## Flying Crane (Jan 17, 2007)

Blindside said:


> I know zip about Shaolin Kenpo, but for some reason the Tracy Kenpo system sells these images of the 5 animals, which completely baffles me. Tracy Kenpo is far enough down the Parker path that you move like, well, like a human. I have heard some people try to categorize movement into these animals and that just confuses me. Tell me "snap that jab out and back, quick!" rather than "fight him snake style" The animal analogies just don't work for me, and I suspect they are more of a marketing gimmick than a true training tool.
> 
> Lamont


 
I agree, nothing about Tracy kenpo leads me to believe it is a "five animal", or any other animal based system.  

Animals are used as parts of the names of the Self Defense techs, but those were just names created by the Tracys when organizing their curriculum.  

Obviously we use things like Tiger Claws and Crane Beaks, but that isn't enough to make something "animal based".


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 17, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> This topic has come up in some other threads. Check out this one, you might find it helpful:
> 
> http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42205&highlight=kenpo+animals


 
My fault. I posted in that thread. :whip: for me being stupid.

Anyway i guess we can continue this one. I know what Steel Tiger is talking about (Tiger destructive power ect...) I have heard that as well. 

In the other thread someone mentioned monkey style. I believe this involves a lot of quick foot work. Here in my city at a Hung Gar school the Sifu there teaches mantis style strike with monkey style footwork (mantis has precise strikes/slow footwork, monkey has fast footwork).

What is this Tracy Kenpo? (no disrespect only heard of it from the site never seen it in action.)

At my school the animal "principles" (i guess we can call them that) are related to almost everything we learn. 

Has anyone found out anything on why *these* were the animals chosen? I will ask my instructor tomorrow and see if he can tell me anything.

B


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## Flying Crane (Jan 17, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> What is this Tracy Kenpo? (no disrespect only heard of it from the site never seen it in action.)
> 
> B


 
Al, Will, and Jim Tracy were students of Ed Parker, who was a student of William Chow in Hawaii.  The Tracys were among Mr. Parker's earliest students, back in the 1950s and 1960s.  As Mr. Parker changed the art and formulated what is now known as American Kenpo, or EPAK Kenpo (Ed Parker's American Kenpo), the Tracys disagreed with the changes that he was making.  They chose to keep the original art, and ultimately separated from Mr. Parker.  Today, there are many similarities between the two, but there are also many differences.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 17, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Al, Will, and Jim Tracy were students of Ed Parker, who was a student of William Chow in Hawaii. The Tracys were among Mr. Parker's earliest students, back in the 1950s and 1960s. As Mr. Parker changed the art and formulated what is now known as American Kenpo, or EPAK Kenpo (Ed Parker's American Kenpo), the Tracys disagreed with the changes that he was making. They chose to keep the original art, and ultimately separated from Mr. Parker. Today, there are many similarities between the two, but there are also many differences.


 
Oh thanks. 

B


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## Steel Tiger (Jan 17, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> My fault. I posted in that thread. :whip: for me being stupid.
> 
> Anyway i guess we can continue this one. I know what Steel Tiger is talking about (Tiger destructive power ect...) I have heard that as well.
> 
> ...


 

Thought you might like this, don't know if it actually explains why the animals were chosen, though.











Shaolin first became famous because the Tang Dynasty (618907) saw fit to favor the monastery with its patronage as thanks for the contribution of its monks to the Battle of Hulao. The sudden renown of the Shaolin martial arts attracted pilgrims who came specifically to study its fighting methods. However, the more people that sought training at the temple, the smaller the proportion of them that had the time or the inclination to truly dedicate themselves. But really they didn't know who to choose first and why. Some regarded the Shaolin imprimatur as a kind of talisman that rendered years of training unnecessary. Others only wanted to fight well and cared little for esoterica like qìg&#333;ng, erasing over centuries the difference between the Shaolin martial arts and those crude methods on which it was supposed to improve.
The legendary Zhang Sanfeng is said by the nei jia schools that associate themselves with him to have trained Snake and Crane style Shaolin martial arts.
Another was Jueyuan, who in the 13th century started from first principles with the 18 Luohan Hands, the original 18 techniques of the Shaolin martial arts. Like those before him, Jueyuan used the original 18 Luohan Hands as a foundation, expanding its 18 techniques into 72. Still, he felt the need to seek knowledge from outside the confines of the temple.
In Gansu Province in the west of China, in the city of Lanzhou, he met Li Sou, a master of "red fist" Hóngquán (&#32005;&#25331. Li Sou accompanied Jueyuan back to Henan, to Luoyang to introduce Jueyuan to Bai Yufeng, master of an internal method.
They returned to Shaolin with Bai Yufeng and expanded Jueyuan's 72 techniques to approximately 170. Moreover, using their combined knowledge, they restored internal aspects to Shaolin boxing.
They organized these techniques into Five Animals: the Tiger, the Crane, the Leopard, the Snake, and the Dragon.​


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2007)

Correct i did like that. It was pretty cool read. But like you said it doesnt explain why those 5 were chosen. Good post though. Im going to ask my instructor tonight if he know anything more. Im also gonna do some research this weekend. Thanks again.

B


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## marlon (Jan 18, 2007)

i think thye were chosen for shaolin kempo because when you look to five animal kung fu these are the usual suspects.  They represent, in my system, five different ways of fighting...that is how we use them  and as i said i think they were chosen because they are the most proliferated in the west.  there are many animals in kung fu not just these five

respectfully,
Marlon


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## Ray (Jan 18, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Al, Will, and Jim Tracy were students of Ed Parker, who was a student of William Chow in Hawaii.  The Tracys were among Mr. Parker's earliest students, back in the 1950s and 1960s.  As Mr. Parker changed the art and formulated what is now known as American Kenpo, or EPAK Kenpo (Ed Parker's American Kenpo), the Tracys disagreed with the changes that he was making.  They chose to keep the original art, and ultimately separated from Mr. Parker.  Today, there are many similarities between the two, but there are also many differences.


I believe that Ed Parker also learned from Ark Wong in California.  I understand that Ark Wong practiced "5 Animal" kung fu.


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## Seabrook (Jan 18, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Obviously we use things like Tiger Claws and Crane Beaks, but that isn't enough to make something "animal based".


 
True, but most wouldn't want it to be mostly "animal based" either.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 18, 2007)

Seabrook said:


> True, but most wouldn't want it to be mostly "animal based" either.


 
Of course, (Tracy) kenpo is not animal based in my opinion and I don't think anyone is trying to pretend that it is, nor insist that it should be.  Animal based technique is some pretty amazing stuff, but not the only approach that gets good results.  Kenpo has a good method, gets great results as well.  There are some "animalesque" things in it, but not anywhere close to predominant.  They are simply different approaches that can work well when done by a competent person.  If you want animal stuff, find a good kung fu teacher who can teach it to you.  If you want something that works well but don't care if it is not animal, kenpo is a good choice.

As far as the Shaolin Ken/mpo schools that claim to include the Five Animals, or other kung fu aspects, I cannot really comment since I don't know them.  I can only say that Animal kung fu, including but not limited to Five Animals, can take on many different forms in Chinese arts.  Just because something shares a name, doesn't mean it is the same thing.  I discussed this a bit in the thread I linked to earlier in this thread.

So if these Shaolin Ken/mpo groups have brought in Five Animals from a legitimate source, then I guess they have it.  If they just use a few tigerclaws, crane beaks, leopard fists, snake/spearhand jabs, and dragon claws (not sure how they differ from tigerclaws, but whatever) within their curriculum, and then claim to be Five Animals, I think that is inaccurate and probably misleading.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 18, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Of course, (Tracy) kenpo is not animal based in my opinion and I don't think anyone is trying to pretend that it is, nor insist that it should be. Animal based technique is some pretty amazing stuff, but not the only approach that gets good results. Kenpo has a good method, gets great results as well. There are some "animalesque" things in it, but not anywhere close to predominant. They are simply different approaches that can work well when done by a competent person. If you want animal stuff, find a good kung fu teacher who can teach it to you. If you want something that works well but don't care if it is not animal, kenpo is a good choice.
> 
> As far as the Shaolin Ken/mpo schools that claim to include the Five Animals, or other kung fu aspects, I cannot really comment since I don't know them. I can only say that Animal kung fu, including but not limited to Five Animals, can take on many different forms in Chinese arts. Just because something shares a name, doesn't mean it is the same thing. I discussed this a bit in the thread I linked to earlier in this thread.
> 
> So if these Shaolin Ken/mpo groups have brought in Five Animals from a legitimate source, then I guess they have it. If they just use a few tigerclaws, crane beaks, leopard fists, snake/spearhand jabs, and dragon claws (not sure how they differ from tigerclaws, but whatever) within their curriculum, and then claim to be Five Animals, I think that is inaccurate and probably misleading.


 
Very true Flying Crane. I know from my classes there are only a handful of strikes that do *NOT* relate to an animal form, thought i would throw that in there since it is relevant to the discussion at hand.

Anyway i did some research and put a thread up over in the CMA section http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=702956#post702956 to see if any of those guys had any more info. Check the link in that thread towards the bottom its got some pretty cool stuff on it.

B

PS-You picture makes me laugh Flying Crane


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## Flying Crane (Jan 18, 2007)

KempoGuy06

Very true Flying Crane. I know from my classes there are only a handful of strikes that do *NOT* relate to an animal form, thought i would throw that in there since it is relevant to the discussion at hand.

*Yes, my point is that just having some "animal" hand strikes doesn't make it an animal based system.  We have counter names for many of these, that are not animal.  A leopard fist is also a half fist.  A snake hand can also be a spear hand.*

*In order to really be an animal system, there is something in the essence of how one moves and applies the technique and movement.  There is an underlying base and theory upon which the hand strikes are built, which create this essence and make it a truly animal based system.  It isn't just pantomiming how an animal moves, altho it CAN include that as well.  But this movement and base creates a workable method that gives good results.*

*I wish I knew more about five animals and others.  My main experience with animals is Tibetan White Crane, so I really only understand that (and certainly not perfectly).  But given my experience with this, I see how the system is based on a specific theory.  Methods of moving and striking are built upon that theory, and certain characteristics of how a real crane fights are built into the system.  For example, a crane keeps distance while striking with its sharp beak.  It dances out of reach of an enemy and doesn't get caught.  It flaps its wings in the enemies face to keep it confused and blinded.  Likewise, we don't like to close and grapple.  We hit and run, or charge in and hit with a blizzard of longarm strikes from every direction.  Kind of looks like a bird flapping its wings.  But some of that movement is also based on an ape.  Supposedly the art was created in the 1400s by a Tibetan Lama who witnessed a fight between a crane and a "mountain ape" (Tibet has a species of macaque, so if there is an truth in this story, it would probably be that).  The system was developed using movements from both animals, as witnessed by the Lama.  I guess the system should really be called Tibetan Crane and Ape style, but since I'm not ruling the world, it stays as Crane.*

*So given my understanding of Tibetan White Crane, I can say that any other animal art, be it Five Animals, or Stand Alone animals, would be based on a theory of movement, technique, and application, that has some parallel with, and gets inspiration from, that particular animal.  Simply taking a reverse punch and substituting a tigerclaw instead of a closed fist, doesn't make the art Animal, or Tiger inspired.  I don't know how your art does things, you can analyze it and think about what I am saying here and make your own judgement on it.  Just giving my perspective.*

*Like I stated in the other thread that I referenced early on in this thread, different arts can carry the same name, but be very different in application.  Fukien White Crane is completely different from Tibetan White Crane.  Choy Li Fut's Five Animals can be very different from a different art's Five Animals.  In Choy Li Fut, the Five Animals is a single internal set.  In other arts, the Five Animals are separate sets, even multiple sets, and can be more external and more "obvious" for fighting application.  There are many many ways to do things in the Chinese arts, even under the same name.*


B

PS-You picture makes me laugh Flying Crane

*Leon, from Blade Runner.  See the movie, if you haven't.  It's really good.*


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## DavidCC (Jan 18, 2007)

We're a SKK school and so we also use these 5 aniumals as teaching tools.  but it seems not to the extent that others do.

We use them to organize the attributes of a good martial artist:

Dragon - Wisdom and Flexibility
Tiger - Strength and Courage
Leopard - Speed and Coordination
Crane - Balance and Grace
Snake - Qi and Deceptive Movement

We do teach some animal combos but they are not core to the material nor required for belt.  Just variations on other combos really... for exploring what-ifs.  No animal forms although we do have Rohai kata


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 19, 2007)

Your post made me think Flying Crane (thanks now my head hursts  ). Seriously though I understand what you mean. I see the animal reference in out strikes and well as the how they use them in our sparring. I have only limited knowledge on how deep the animals are seeded becasue I am only an orange belt. But this is something to think about and watch as i progress to black belt. Im curious to see how deep everything goes.

B


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## Flying Crane (Jan 19, 2007)

KempoGuy06 said:


> Your post made me think Flying Crane (thanks now my head hursts  ). Seriously though I understand what you mean. I see the animal reference in out strikes and well as the how they use them in our sparring. I have only limited knowledge on how deep the animals are seeded becasue I am only an orange belt. But this is something to think about and watch as i progress to black belt. Im curious to see how deep everything goes.
> 
> B


 

Glad to help.

In all seriousness, I would certainly be interested in hearing some answers from the higher-ups in your group.  It would be interesting to know where the Five Animals material comes from specifically, if it was incorporated from a specific Chinese system like Choy Li Fut or Hung Gar.  It would also be interesting to hear an explanation of how the animal material is manifest in your system, and how each animal is specifically applied and how their characteristics show themselves.

As I have mentioned before, there are many different methods that can share the same name.  I have heard of another White Crane, of Wu Mei, something like that.  And I think the Indonesian and/or Malaysian arts have a Crane influence, but these are all their own interpretation and are nothing like Tibetan or Fukien White Crane systems.  So I guess in a way, someone could do their own interpretation of an animal and base their movement off of that, and give it the name.  It's just that the Asian systems are well established and proven, often over centuries, and were developed by people who had a closer experience of the animal, to learn from it thru observation, and develop a system.  I would be less trusting of a method developed by a guy in 2005 who spent time at the zoo watching the tigers sleep all day, and the cranes stand around doing nothing.  It just isn't a quality experience that would give someone the insight to create their own martial system.  And whenever a new martial system is created, it is done by someone with a strong background already.  These things don't just spring up out of a vaccuum.  So whatever background the person already had will definitely influence the "new" system.

Food for thought.  Chew, swallow, digest, defecate...


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 19, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> Glad to help.
> 
> In all seriousness, I would certainly be interested in hearing some answers from the higher-ups in your group. It would be interesting to know where the Five Animals material comes from specifically, if it was incorporated from a specific Chinese system like Choy Li Fut or Hung Gar. It would also be interesting to hear an explanation of how the animal material is manifest in your system, and how each animal is specifically applied and how their characteristics show themselves.
> 
> ...


 
LOL! Guy at the zoo! Priceless! I can picture that now (the monkey system might involve a lot of poo if you catch my drift). LOL!

I will make it a point to ask my instructor. I meant to do it last night but in the flurry of the start of a new college semester I forgot. Anyway I will make a mental note to ask him. If he cant tell me I will try to persuade him to ask his instructor who is a 5th degree (i believe). so, he may know a little more.

b


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## Flying Crane (Jan 19, 2007)

very good.  keep us posted.


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## HG1 (Jan 19, 2007)

*KempoGuy06*

This link is in response to your post over in the CMA section.  I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any questions.  :asian: 

http://www.yeeshungga.com/tradition/...l5element.html


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## Mariachi Joe (Jan 19, 2007)

USSD says the 5 animal techniques came from the Shaolin Temple.  Where GM Villari learned them I'm not sure.


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## KenpoDave (Jan 19, 2007)

I see the use of the 5 Animals as more of a strategic way of thinking or applying the movements, as opposed to a way of actually moving.  


From Ted Sumner's forum: 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Here is a general overview of the nature and modality of the fighting styles of the Five Animals of Kenpo. Hope this helps. 


DRAGON 
Most effective against: The Tiger 
Most vulnerable against: The Panther 

The Dragon is a primarily defensive animal and the strategy of the Dragon deals with the yielding to and redirecting of force used against it. The simplest application of Dragon strategy is to move out of the way as executed in the Total Evasion discipline. A War Art application of Dragon strategy would be judicious use of critical distance. That is to position just within the range of your opponent offering an apparent target. As the attack is committed the Dragon enjoins and directs or redirects the force in a different or merely exaggerated direction increasing the intensity, angle speed of the movement. 


TIGER 
Most effective against: The Crane 
Most vulnerable against: The Dragon 

The Tiger is an intelligent powerful animal that reacts to any threat with an offensive effort. The strategy of the Tiger is to skillfully apply a superlatively balanced attack consisting of powerful kicks, handstrikes and blocks. The Tiger will move relentlessly down the center attacking the opponents most vulnerable and vital parts and prefers to meet force with greater force. The Tiger might well embrace the Kenpo credo &#8220;every block a strike, every strike a block&#8221;. 


CRANE 
Most effective against: The Serpent 
Most vulnerable against: The Tiger 

The Crane, like the Dragon, is a docile animal that uses force only in cause of self defense and applies the a an very defensive modality. The Crane will rise up and open it&#8217;s wings to give an illusion of greater size and then strike with the beak to a vital target as soon as the opponent is within critical distance. The Crane uses it&#8217;s ability to strike long range to compensate for it&#8217;s lack of ability to overpower it&#8217;s opponent. The use of long range kicks, such as the rear kick, rear thrust and front thrust are examples of a Crane strategy. Once it&#8217;s critical distance has been compromised the Crane will respond with a fusillade of strikes with the wings claws and beak. Much like what Kenpo styles do with fists, fingers, elbow, knee and teeth. Once the opponent is disabled, injured or put on the defensive the Crane will reacquire it&#8217;s critical distance. 


SERPENT 
Most effective against: The Panther 
Most vulnerable against: The Crane 

The Serpent, like the Tiger moves down the center and targets the most vital targets in order to accomplish the most damage to the opponent with each strike. The Serpent will, however, take hold of it&#8217;s opponent and wrap around him in order to constrict and suffocate the opponent into unconsciousness or death. The Serpent is most vulnerable once it crosses into critical distance and must close quickly with it&#8217;s opponent in order to neutralize long-range defensive strikes. Once engaged with the opponent the Serpent is fully committed to that struggle and incapable of dealing with multiple attackers. 

PANTHER 
Strongest against: The Dragon 
Most vulnerable against: The Snake 

The Panther, like the Serpent, is employs an offensive strategy in combat. The Panther uses it&#8217;s apparently blinding speed coupled with a continuous recombination of complimentary lines and angles to mesmerize it&#8217;s opponent with continuous strikes that seem to come from everywhere. Much like the Kenpo &#8220;missile attack&#8221; strategy, the Panther never relies on a single strike to necessarily settle the matter. The Panther is both ambidextrous and highly mobile, moving in and out of critical distance striking at will. The Panther however, lacking the strength of the Tiger, does not do well once it has been taken to the ground and it&#8217;s mobility and striking skill and speed has been compromised. 

written by Ted Sumner


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## Blindside (Jan 19, 2007)

> I see the use of the 5 Animals as more of a strategic way of thinking or applying the movements, as opposed to a way of actually moving.


 
I couldn't remember where I had seen this before until you posted it here, and this may make me sound like an ***, but do you really find this useful?  Versus describing a fighter as a grappler, counter-fighter, blitzer, evader, etc.  

When fighting/sparring a guy, do you think "he's a crane, better go tiger?"
I understand the analogies but I don't understand why we need them, it seems like an unnecessary cultural trapping that is intentionally placed on the system.

Lamont


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## Matt (Jan 19, 2007)

Blindside said:


> I couldn't remember where I had seen this before until you posted it here, and this may make me sound like an ***, but do you really find this useful?  Versus describing a fighter as a grappler, counter-fighter, blitzer, evader, etc.
> 
> When fighting/sparring a guy, do you think "he's a crane, better go tiger?"
> I understand the analogies but I don't understand why we need them, it seems like an unnecessary cultural trapping that is intentionally placed on the system.
> ...



I mention these in a couple places at my website (the same one as the technique archive), and for the most part according to my research the animals in shaolin kempo were derived from existing kempos and organized by movement pattern to correspond to the traditional Chinese martial mythology descriptions of the basic 5 animals of Kung Fu. 

I talk about kempos here, and animals here. 

Essentially, there were a lot of kempos that need organizing, and kung fu was the hot new thing in the mid '70's. I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism, because it worked out as a relatively ingenious method for organizing essentially a random collection of techniques. 

Matt


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## Blindside (Jan 19, 2007)

Thanks for posting that Matt.  Interesting, your snake and the Tracy Kenpo (posted by Dave) serpent are two totally different strategies, as is your Dragons.  

I guess I can understand why an Art that calls itself "Shaolin Kempo" might have these kinds of descriptions.  I don't get it for Tracy Kenpo, the Tracy's claim a lineage to Japanese Samurai, and that Professor Chow had no kung-fu instruction, so the 5 animal thing strikes me as distinctly odd.

Lamont


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## Mariachi Joe (Jan 19, 2007)

Shaolin also includes Praying Mantis and monkey styles I think


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 19, 2007)

Mariachi Joe said:


> Shaolin also includes Praying Mantis and monkey styles I think


 
As far as part of SKK, I can't say that it is part of the normal cirriculum, but I had been exposed to Praying Mantis. Definately don't remember being taught any Monkey style throughout the years.


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## Mariachi Joe (Jan 20, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> As far as part of SKK, I can't say that it is part of the normal cirriculum, but I had been exposed to Praying Mantis. Definately don't remember being taught any Monkey style throughout the years.


 

Sorry for the mix up, I ment they are part of Shaolin Kung Fu.  In SKK we just have the 5 animals your right


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## MeatWad2 (Jan 21, 2007)

Mariachi Joe said:


> Sorry for the mix up, I ment they are part of Shaolin Kung Fu.  In SKK we just have the 5 animals your right



What techinque's in SKK are animals?
I never learned any.


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## Mariachi Joe (Jan 21, 2007)

I was taught a couple of kempo punch techniques one called diving crane and the other merciful crane.  They are supposed to have attributes of the crane.


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 21, 2007)

Eight Hands of the Leopard, Leopard Hands, Snow Leopard, Tiger Ripping Bark, Black Tiger, Tiger Climbs the Mountain, Deflecting Tiger, etc ...


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## MeatWad2 (Jan 21, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> Eight Hands of the Leopard, Leopard Hands, Snow Leopard, Tiger Ripping Bark, Black Tiger, Tiger Climbs the Mountain, Deflecting Tiger, etc ...


Are you sure ussd guys didnt just make those up?


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## marlon (Jan 21, 2007)

shaolin kempo also has animal based forms, cranes, tigers, leopards, snakes and dragons.

marlon


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## MeatWad2 (Jan 21, 2007)

marlon said:


> shaolin kempo also has animal based forms, cranes, tigers, leopards, snakes and dragons.
> 
> marlon


Are they made up by Villari?


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## marlon (Jan 21, 2007)

Statue of the crane is based on the Okinawan form Rohai, the rest i assume are from Villari but so far are quite good and practical.  hon suki is often described as a tiger form and it comes through master Bill Chun Sr. who created it but that version is apparently very different from the form as taught through the Villari lineage

marlon


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## 14 Kempo (Jan 21, 2007)

MeatWad2 said:


> Are you sure ussd guys didnt just make those up?


 
They very well could have, they are simply techniques based on the movements of certain animals.


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## Scherazade (Jan 21, 2007)

In my SKK school, we have quite a number of monkey techniques (I know about 4) and I have one eagle technique. My instuctor also went into detail about the differences between how a eagle moves and attacks and how a crane moves and attacks. My instructor has had several years of Kung Fu training so I am not sure if they were taught to him by another SKK master or his Kung Fu instructor. My school is kind of atypical because my instructor focuses on the animals a lot. We can spend several classes focusing on advanced animal techniques and practicing drills to increase our understanding of how certain animals move and attack.


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## Hand Sword (Jan 22, 2007)

Not so atypical from my past experience. It was about 60/40 for me. Depending on who the instructor was, it was just a punch technique, or an animal themed technique.


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## MeatWad2 (Jan 22, 2007)

Scherazade said:


> In my SKK school, we have quite a number of monkey techniques (I know about 4) and I have one eagle technique. My instuctor also went into detail about the differences between how a eagle moves and attacks and how a crane moves and attacks. My instructor has had several years of Kung Fu training so I am not sure if they were taught to him by another SKK master or his Kung Fu instructor. My school is kind of atypical because my instructor focuses on the animals a lot. We can spend several classes focusing on advanced animal techniques and practicing drills to increase our understanding of how certain animals move and attack.


Where do you study?  What kungfu instructor does your instructor train with?


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 22, 2007)

Scherazade said:


> In my SKK school, we have quite a number of monkey techniques (I know about 4) and I have one eagle technique. My instuctor also went into detail about the differences between how a eagle moves and attacks and how a crane moves and attacks. My instructor has had several years of Kung Fu training so I am not sure if they were taught to him by another SKK master or his Kung Fu instructor. My school is kind of atypical because my instructor focuses on the animals a lot. We can spend several classes focusing on advanced animal techniques and practicing drills to increase our understanding of how certain animals move and attack.


Thats interesting. Is Monkey style a lot of footwork? From what I heard it plays an important role. How does eagle differ from crane?

B


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 23, 2007)

Scherazade said:


> In my SKK school, we have quite a number of monkey techniques (I know about 4) and I have one eagle technique. My instuctor also went into detail about the differences between how a eagle moves and attacks and how a crane moves and attacks. My instructor has had several years of Kung Fu training so I am not sure if they were taught to him by another SKK master or his Kung Fu instructor. My school is kind of atypical because my instructor focuses on the animals a lot. We can spend several classes focusing on advanced animal techniques and practicing drills to increase our understanding of how certain animals move and attack.


 

Which flavor of SKK do you study under?  Personally, animal kempos in SKK are made up techniques based on moves seen in forms.  They can be effective if they are taught right.


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## RevIV (Jan 23, 2007)

One of my SKK teachers who i trained with for awhile seperated all his animal techniques from his Kempo techniques.  Then you had to have a specific number of animal techniques before you could test for certain ranks.  It was about 3 animal techniques for each of the 5 animals before black belt plus all the other curriculum.  So these were on top of the Kempo techniques.  But for those who do not know what an animal technique is, think of combo #17.  Some have it as a rush in double tiger claws - this would represent some of the movements of the Tiger (not just the claws but the actual body movement)
In Peace
Jesse


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## kosho (Jan 24, 2007)

Shaolin Kempo Karate system teaches the twelve branches of Shaolin that were originally taught in the Shaolin Temples of China. These branches include the venerable art of Chin Na (White Tiger); the ultimate form of controlling your opponent by holding, seizing, locking, throwing, felling and delivering pain that can be controlled. No other art can have such control over an attacker. The Immortal Monkey, known for its art of illusion. It cannot be hit. Its movements are lightning quick and it can change direction rapidly. It never exhausts its energy and the monkey is always happy! The art of the Tiger with its character ferocity and strength. The Tiger fears nothing and, thus, is feared by all. The Leopard is another important branch of Shaolin because it is the fastest of all the animals in the system and it is through speed that the Leopard is able to generate tremendous power. The branch of the Crane teaches centeredness, balance and grace within our movement and disposition; these are the markings of a truly great fighter. The Eagle branch of Shaolin is also graceful in its technique, but the Eagle differs from the Crane in that the Eagle is a bird of prey. Once held by an Eagle's powerful grip, its opponent is usually rendered helpless. The Snake branch of Shaolin, including the boa and the python, emphasizes flexibility and precision. The Snake doesn't have the power of the Tiger or the Leopard so it must target specific points of the body to administer it's attack, the result is usually deadly. Another branch of Shaolin relates to insects, wherein are taught the movements of the praying mantis, scorpion, centipede and others. The Dragon, however, is the most indomitable of all the animals in the Shaolin system. The Dragon is the spirit of Shaolin. It cannot be defined. It utilizes the movements and traits of all the animals, continually adapting to meet the needs of any situation. The Dragon's will to survive and overcome is what separates it from all the other animals. Weaponry is yet another branch of Shaolin and, within Shaolin Kempo Karate system, all traditional and modern weapons are studied in both offensive and defensive modes.

Just adding a few others that are in the Shaolin kempo animals. Prof ingargiloa
web site has more info on them and in his videos also.
 www.shaolinkempo.com 
Kosho


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 25, 2007)

kosho said:


> Shaolin Kempo Karate system teaches the twelve branches of Shaolin that were originally taught in the Shaolin Temples of China. These branches include the venerable art of Chin Na (White Tiger); the ultimate form of controlling your opponent by holding, seizing, locking, throwing, felling and delivering pain that can be controlled. No other art can have such control over an attacker. The Immortal Monkey, known for its art of illusion. It cannot be hit. Its movements are lightning quick and it can change direction rapidly. It never exhausts its energy and the monkey is always happy! The art of the Tiger with its character ferocity and strength. The Tiger fears nothing and, thus, is feared by all. The Leopard is another important branch of Shaolin because it is the fastest of all the animals in the system and it is through speed that the Leopard is able to generate tremendous power. The branch of the Crane teaches centeredness, balance and grace within our movement and disposition; these are the markings of a truly great fighter. The Eagle branch of Shaolin is also graceful in its technique, but the Eagle differs from the Crane in that the Eagle is a bird of prey. Once held by an Eagle's powerful grip, its opponent is usually rendered helpless. The Snake branch of Shaolin, including the boa and the python, emphasizes flexibility and precision. The Snake doesn't have the power of the Tiger or the Leopard so it must target specific points of the body to administer it's attack, the result is usually deadly. Another branch of Shaolin relates to insects, wherein are taught the movements of the praying mantis, scorpion, centipede and others. The Dragon, however, is the most indomitable of all the animals in the Shaolin system. The Dragon is the spirit of Shaolin. It cannot be defined. It utilizes the movements and traits of all the animals, continually adapting to meet the needs of any situation. The Dragon's will to survive and overcome is what separates it from all the other animals. Weaponry is yet another branch of Shaolin and, within Shaolin Kempo Karate system, all traditional and modern weapons are studied in both offensive and defensive modes.
> 
> Just adding a few others that are in the Shaolin kempo animals. Prof ingargiloa
> web site has more info on them and in his videos also.
> ...


 
Here's what villari.com says about the animals

It incorporates the movements of five animals: Tiger, Crane, Dragon, Snake, and Leopard. The Shaolin theory of fighting is based on circular movements, speed, conditioning, and developing strong internal energy, tendons, and ligaments. These are essential for producing a superior fighter.


That's it.


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## Hand Sword (Jan 25, 2007)

There were posters hung up in the dojos saying exactly what Kosho posted, when I was last around. They gave an overview of how the system was comprised.


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## Gufbal1982 (Jan 25, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> There were posters hung up in the dojos saying exactly what Kosho posted, when I was last around. They gave an overview of how the system was comprised.


 
They are still around...i was just quoting the website.


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## KenpoDave (Jan 29, 2007)

Blindside said:


> I couldn't remember where I had seen this before until you posted it here, and this may make me sound like an ***, but do you really find this useful? Versus describing a fighter as a grappler, counter-fighter, blitzer, evader, etc.
> 
> When fighting/sparring a guy, do you think "he's a crane, better go tiger?"
> I understand the analogies but I don't understand why we need them, it seems like an unnecessary cultural trapping that is intentionally placed on the system.
> ...


 
Lamont, I find these descriptions useful when analyzing mine or my student's performance when sparring.  Not while sparring, but later.  The descriptions give us a box to place things in.  For example, if Jimmy is having trouble with Johnny, then it can be useful to break it down this way and show Jimmy how perhaps a different strategy may be more effective.  And, that strategy may require some work on new/different/rusty skills.

I find it interesting, challenging, and stimulating to constantly try and alter my strategy.


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## KempoGuy06 (Jan 30, 2007)

My instructor will do the same thing. He always tells us that fighting the same way everytime is a disadvantage because people will learn the strenghts and weaknesses through continual sparring. 

As for the animals I dont know if I said it before but the animals do play a big part in our sparring. They show us how our own bodys can be suited for a particular style or not and how each style has its advantages. It helps me out a lot.

B


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## Gufbal1982 (Feb 4, 2007)

Has anyone seen the BB Magazine article from Steve DeMasco for this month?  he goes into the animals and I think he does a really good description...


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## Gufbal1982 (Feb 15, 2007)

Has Anyone Read This Months Black Belt Magazine?  It Talks In Detail About The Animals...


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