# black belt purchase



## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

My friend is a brown belt in Kyokushin karate ! he asked me if he can buy from a reliable website a premium black belt (isami) which is approved by the IKO1(international karate organization). ?? any idea guys ??


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## Tez3 (Jun 17, 2017)

Has he been awarded his black belt by his instructor? After you have graded you are given your belt so I can't see why he would want to buy a black one when he's a brown belt.


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## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Has he been awarded his black belt by his instructor? After you have graded you are given your belt so I can't see why he would want to buy a black one when he's a brown belt.


he's a brown belt for more than 3 years ! he deserve to get his own black belt! to add the coach where we train buy it for 300$ he said that the black belt is an premuim belt and like that ! it's to expensive !! so that's why he need to buy one from the internet!


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## Tez3 (Jun 17, 2017)

ahmad abou taleb said:


> he's a brown belt for more than 3 years ! he deserve to get his own black belt! to add the coach where we train buy it for 300$ he said that the black belt is an premuim belt and like that ! it's to expensive !! so that's why he need to buy one from the internet!



Three years sounds about right before he grades for black. Are you saying he hasn't graded but wants to buy a belt and wear it anyway or that he has graded but can't afford a belt?


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## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Three years sounds about right before he grades for black. Are you saying he hasn't graded but wants to buy a belt and wear it anyway or that he has graded but can't afford a belt?


what i mean! he deserves to get his black belt, but the instructor doesn't want to award the belt to my friend until he pay !! that's why he want to buy a belt


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 17, 2017)

ahmad abou taleb said:


> what i mean! he deserves to get his black belt, but the instructor doesn't want to award the belt to my friend until he pay !! that's why he want to buy a belt


So he's been informed that he can grade, but hasn't because he can't afford the test/belt? Is the instructor aware that's why he refused testing...if he is he might try to work with him price-wise


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## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> So he's been informed that he can grade, but hasn't because he can't afford the test/belt? Is the instructor aware that's why he refused testing...if he is he might try to work with him price-wise


exactly sir! now u understand what I meant! 300$ to him isn't an affordable  price,it's too expensive! so we can talk with the coach and informe him that JOE will do the exam and don't want to buy the belt ! and we'll buy it from any site! the exam is for free ! but the belt what cost 300$


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 17, 2017)

ahmad abou taleb said:


> exactly sir! now u understand what I meant! 300$ to him isn't an affordable  price,it's too expensive! so we can talk with the coach and informe him that JOE will do the exam and don't want to buy the belt ! and we'll buy it from any site! the exam is for free ! but the belt what cost 300$


That's very odd, normally the exam is what would cost money.


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## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> That's very odd, normally the exam is what would cost money.


yes!! i know but the coach is the referee who give grades in test so he don't pay fees to do the test! but he say that he buy belts from japan ! but he ordered them pnline and w e all knew that!! most of the time he refuse to go  and test for a black belt if u haven't pay the 300$ !! so we just want to know from where he buy the belts!


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## Martial D (Jun 17, 2017)

Universal rule..if you need to ask something shady on a web forum, send a "friend"...


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## ahmad abou taleb (Jun 17, 2017)

Martial D said:


> Universal rule..if you need to ask something shady on a web forum, send a "friend"...


excuse me ???? i'm not a liar ! and u should talk to me in a respectful way! you can go and check my facebook !! thanks to god i'm not waiting you to tell me either i'm a black belt or not,i'm already a black belt for more than 2 years now! anyway thank you for your reply ! i respect what u said,this is your oppinion ! but for next time when u wanna be smart like that,just remember any adidas or sport outlet have a lot of black belts ! and u can order from the internet from millions of site !! and as a kyokushin black belt u can anything you wnt from ichigeki site!


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 17, 2017)

ahmad abou taleb said:


> yes!! i know but the coach is the referee who give grades in test so he don't pay fees to do the test! but he say that he buy belts from japan ! but he ordered them pnline and w e all knew that!! most of the time he refuse to go  and test for a black belt if u haven't pay the 300$ !! so we just want to know from where he buy the belts!


If that's how the organization operates, saying, "I can buy the belt elsewhere" is unlikely to get the person testing him to approve the grading.


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## drop bear (Jun 17, 2017)

I know a guy I will have an ask.

His response.

"Isami or martial world we normally use mate, not sure how much all the embroidery would cost but?"


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## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

No he can't buy it....if he's not awarded it then he's nothing but a fake black belt. You buy a belt whatever reason you give it's not legit. If the instructor doesn't award it then it's not real


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> No he can't buy it....if he's not awarded it then he's nothing but a fake black belt. You buy a belt whatever reason you give it's not legit. If the instructor doesn't award it then it's not real


he _can _buy it. I could lso tape 10 red stripes on my black belt. My instructor just wouldn't recognize it.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 18, 2017)

Sounds strange to me.  I would just take the test since it's free. Pass it and become a blackbelt.  I would think passing the test would be more important than having the actual black belt.


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## RTKDCMB (Jun 18, 2017)

Seems a bit dodgy to me.


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## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

kempodisciple said:


> he _can _buy it. I could lso tape 10 red stripes on my black belt. My instructor just wouldn't recognize it.


Sure anyone can buy one but it means they're a fake black belt


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## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

Only time buying a black belt is okay is when you're already a black belt and your belt is falling apart.


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## Tez3 (Jun 18, 2017)

Martial D said:


> Universal rule..if you need to ask something shady on a web forum, send a "friend"...



Unfair. The poster obviously doesn't speak English as his first language and is having problems explaining what the problem is. I don't think it's dodgy as such just very confused, things in the Middle East even martial arts, are often done very differently. The UK government has issued a warning not to travel to Lebanon because it's dangerous, it's likely the unrest there also makes things very different from other places.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 18, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> Unfair. The poster obviously doesn't speak English as his first language and is having problems explaining what the problem is. I don't think it's dodgy as such just very confused, things in the Middle East even martial arts, are often done very differently. The UK government has issued a warning not to travel to Lebanon because it's dangerous, it's likely the unrest there also makes things very different from other places.


I've been thinking the same thing. I can't quite grasp it from the OP's comments, but it's not that different from situations many people here deal with, as far as the money. If the instructor's actually saying the physical belt costs $300, that's beyond weird. If it's the belt grade that costs $300 (filing fees, after-the-fact testing fees, etc.), then that's not all that unusual.


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## drop bear (Jun 18, 2017)

What about street belts?







So you can show your black beltness off everywhere.

Anyway looking isami. They do make a pretty belt.






But according to the web site you cant buy them. You have to go through your school.


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## PhotonGuy (Jun 18, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> No he can't buy it....if he's not awarded it then he's nothing but a fake black belt. You buy a belt whatever reason you give it's not legit. If the instructor doesn't award it then it's not real



Anybody can buy any belt of any color they want including a black belt. However, that's not earning it.


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## PhotonGuy (Jun 18, 2017)

JowGaWolf said:


> Sounds strange to me.  I would just take the test since it's free. Pass it and become a blackbelt.  I would think passing the test would be more important than having the actual black belt.



I wholeheartedly agree.


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## PhotonGuy (Jun 18, 2017)

To the OP you could check out awma.com as they sell all sorts of martial arts supplies including belts.


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## Headhunter (Jun 18, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Anybody can buy any belt of any color they want including a black belt. However, that's not earning it.


That's what I said


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## CB Jones (Jun 18, 2017)

PhotonGuy said:


> Anybody can buy any belt of any color they want including a black belt. However, that's not earning it.




But thats not what he is saying.

The instructor charges $300 for the belt that he awards because the belt is expensive.  He wants to purchase the black belt and give it to the the instructor to award to him after the text to save money.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 18, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> But thats not what he is saying.
> 
> The instructor charges $300 for the belt that he awards because the belt is expensive.  He wants to purchase the black belt and give it to the the instructor to award to him after the text to save money.


And if the $300 is truly just for the belt (cost of the belt), then that is reasonable. If, as I suspect (but do not know), there are other fees built in there, rather than charging for the testing and filing, those fees would still be necessary. It's something the student needs to take up with the instructor before he goes looking for somewhere else to purchase a belt.

If the belt is, in fact, very expensive, the instructor ought (in my opinion, for what that's worth) to have an alternative available for students who don't want a $300 belt. Mine cost me about $40. It has no embroidery, because we don't typically use that. I bought it myself (we had a common belt that was used for BB promotions, then you swapped it out for your own after that class), because that's how we did it.


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## JR 137 (Jun 18, 2017)

I'll give the benefit of the doubt here.  I'll assume the OP's friend has passed his shodan test, and can't afford the physical belt from his instructor and is therefore looking for an alternative.  I'll also assume the instructor is fine with it.

Isami is THE Kyokushin brand.  Mas Oyama was reportedly friends with the head/founder of Isami and they developed the specifics for Kyokushin gis and belts together.  If you see someone wearing a Kyokushin gi or belt, there's a 99% chance (not literally, although it seems that way) it's made by Isami.  From what I understand, Choke Sports is the international distributor of Isami.

Now here's the issue...
After Mas Oyama's death in 1994, Kyokushin has splintered heavily.  His last will and testament have been contested since the day it surfaced.  It's been through the Japanese court system since, and still is.  One of the most recent rulings was Oyama's daughter is the rightful holder of the Kyokushin trademark and kanji.  Anyone using that has to (rightfully) pay royalties.  Isami/Choke Sports will no longer sell stuff with Kyokushin kanji to the general public; they'll only sell it to authorized purchasers.  Hence why the OP's friend is having a hard time.  Going through the instructor keeps the appropriate channels of copyright/trademark intact.  The instructor probably has to order it through his IKO, adding middlemen.

I know several families from Lebanon, including my father and his siblings were all born and raised there.  People want to go back and visit, but they all say the cost of everything has skyrocketed the last few years and no one can comfortably afford to do anything there.  The $300 price for the belt itself seems like a case of that.

To the OP - buy a black belt locally or online, find a local embroiderer, bring your belt, and have the embroiderer copy the kanji on the proper side, and have his name in kanji on the other side.


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## Tez3 (Jun 18, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> they all say the cost of everything has skyrocketed the last few years and no one can comfortably afford to do anything there. The $300 price for the belt itself seems like a case of that.



When this sort of thing happens people look for ways of making money  to top up wages so I imagine the instructor could well be trying to make money. I wouldn't blame him in that situation but it's hard on the students.


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## Andrew Green (Jun 18, 2017)

Tez3 said:


> When this sort of thing happens people look for ways of making money  to top up wages so I imagine the instructor could well be trying to make money. I wouldn't blame him in that situation but it's hard on the students.



Could also be the instructors parent organization and that the cost of the "belt" is the physical belt + association fees to register and make it official.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jun 18, 2017)

Andrew Green said:


> Could also be the instructors parent organization and that the cost of the "belt" is the physical belt + association fees to register and make it official.


That's what I was trying to say earlier. I think you said it more clearly.


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## JR 137 (Jun 18, 2017)

Just doing a little research, an Isami F-700 (Kyokushin's favorite) with one stripe (shodan) is about $65 USD.  Add $4 per kanji character, and there's a lot of those, let's say 20 characters between the organization name and the karateka name, and you're talking $145 USD.  Taxes, duties, shipping, exchange rates, etc. all thrown in there, and the $300 doesn't seem so astronomical.  Excessive, yes, but not completely absurd.

I've seen videos of their belts being made.  Isami hand embroiders, and embroiders before the belt is all sewn together.  The belt is about as handmade as it gets with today's technology.  And they're made in Japan.

I think it's hard to justify the cost of Kyokushin black belts.  My reason why is that they get a new one at every dan promotion.  At the higher dan ranks it obviously takes longer, but shodan to nidan is typically 2 years minimum, and nidan to sandan is typically 3 years minimum.  If I'm spending $300 for a black belt, I want to wear it at every dan grade; just add a stripe.  One of the reasons why I love Seido so much - you get promoted to the next dan rank, and they take your belt and add a stripe instead of giving you a new belt.  The old belts have character IMO.


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## Human Makiwara (Aug 25, 2017)

We were awarded standard black belts on test day. Same make as all the other kyu rank belts. There was an option for the Shureido belt if you so desire. $$$ I absolutely love mine.


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## Human Makiwara (Aug 25, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> Just doing a little research, an Isami F-700 (Kyokushin's favorite) with one stripe (shodan) is about $65 USD.  Add $4 per kanji character, and there's a lot of those, let's say 20 characters between the organization name and the karateka name, and you're talking $145 USD.  Taxes, duties, shipping, exchange rates, etc. all thrown in there, and the $300 doesn't seem so astronomical.  Excessive, yes, but not completely absurd.
> 
> I've seen videos of their belts being made.  Isami hand embroiders, and embroiders before the belt is all sewn together.  The belt is about as handmade as it gets with today's technology.  And they're made in Japan.
> 
> I think it's hard to justify the cost of Kyokushin black belts.  My reason why is that they get a new one at every dan promotion.  At the higher dan ranks it obviously takes longer, but shodan to nidan is typically 2 years minimum, and nidan to sandan is typically 3 years minimum.  If I'm spending $300 for a black belt, I want to wear it at every dan grade; just add a stripe.  One of the reasons why I love Seido so much - you get promoted to the next dan rank, and they take your belt and add a stripe instead of giving you a new belt.  The old belts have character IMO.



That cost breakdown is about right. We don't have to get a new belt each Dan in Uechi. So mine will be with me for a while. 

I never wear the actual black belt I was awarded. It's brand new. My Shureido it starting to wear through a little.


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## RTKDCMB (Aug 28, 2017)

Headhunter said:


> Only time buying a black belt is okay is when you're already a black belt and your belt is falling apart.


Or it gets stolen.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 28, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Or it gets stolen.


Or that's just the expectation (none of my NGA instructors actually provided them - we all bought our own).


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## JR 137 (Aug 28, 2017)

RTKDCMB said:


> Or it gets stolen.


Or if it doesn't fit anymore.
Or in a friend's case when it burned in his house fire.


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## jim777 (Oct 24, 2017)

Do you study at the Honbu?


JR 137 said:


> Or if it doesn't fit anymore.
> Or in a friend's case when it burned in his house fire.



Do you study at the Seido honbu on 23rd St?


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## JR 137 (Oct 24, 2017)

jim777 said:


> Do you study at the Honbu?
> 
> Do you study at the Seido honbu on 23rd St?


No.  I study at Adirondack Seido outside Albany, NY.

Do you train at honbu?


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## PhotonGuy (Oct 25, 2017)

CB Jones said:


> But thats not what he is saying.
> 
> The instructor charges $300 for the belt that he awards because the belt is expensive.  He wants to purchase the black belt and give it to the the instructor to award to him after the text to save money.



I've heard of expensive belts but nothing in the range of $300. If he wants to buy his own belt to wear after he earns the rank than as I posted earlier, there's

Martial Arts Supplies | AWMA

And if you want a more high end belt there's

Tokaido, The Worldwide Standard, Karate Uniforms, Black belts, Embroidery, Customization, WKF Uniforms, WKF Products, Separates, Novelty Items, Do-Gi Origin, Direct from Japan

Their belts are of high quality and are quite expensive although nowhere near $300.


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## jim777 (Oct 25, 2017)

JR 137 said:


> No.  I study at Adirondack Seido outside Albany, NY.
> 
> Do you train at honbu?



Yes, let me know if you ever pop down and I will try to make your class


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## JR 137 (Oct 25, 2017)

jim777 said:


> Yes, let me know if you ever pop down and I will try to make your class


Will do.  I keep trying to make it down, but something always comes up last minute.  Same as the almost monthly trip my CI and seniors make to Westchester for Kaicho’s meditation and general class on Friday nights.

We get some guys from honbu coming up to our dojo every now and then too.  Let me know if you stop in.


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## Anarax (Oct 26, 2017)

The best black belt is the one you pay the iron price for


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 26, 2017)

Anarax said:


> The best black belt is the one you pay the iron price for


Iron price?


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## Anarax (Oct 26, 2017)

You don't watch Game of Thrones? The Iron Born are a culture in game of thrones that are based on the Vikings, they have a raid centered culture. When they take something off an opponent they killed in battle it's called paying the Iron Price.


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## Anarax (Oct 26, 2017)

gpseymour said:


> Iron price?


 The above posting was meant to be a reply


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## Gerry Seymour (Oct 26, 2017)

Anarax said:


> You don't watch Game of Thrones? The Iron Born are a culture in game of thrones that are based on the Vikings, they have a raid centered culture. When they take something off an opponent they killed in battle it's called paying the Iron Price.


Ah! No, I've only seen parts of a couple of episodes, so I only get a few references.


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## PhotonGuy (Oct 29, 2017)

Anarax said:


> You don't watch Game of Thrones? The Iron Born are a culture in game of thrones that are based on the Vikings, they have a raid centered culture. When they take something off an opponent they killed in battle it's called paying the Iron Price.



I've seen some episodes of Game Of Thrones but never got into it so much as to know about the Iron Price. I must say Roxanne McKee had a good role in the series even if it was a small role. A good actress I must say.


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