# Chen Style Tai Chi



## tberkery (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello, my name is Tom and I'm new to this forum. I have some questions that perhaps someone may help me with. I learned a short form of Chen Style Tai Chi this summer from an excellent teacher named Richard Blacklock in Oneonta NY.

1. I was wondering if anyone had information about the Chen Style of Tai Chi. I know that my teacher in Oneonta had learned from a gentlemen in the Chen village in China, but I don't know much more than that. If it helps, I know the movements were all meant to be spiraling, and there were  martial applications taught off of the movements. 

2. He also described it as a non-yang style. I'm not sure exactly what was meant by that.

If anyone can offer some information, or perhaps places where I can go to get information I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,
Tom


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 30, 2007)

None Yang style is just what it sounds like, it is not Yang style.

Yang style comes from Chen style, Yang Luchan learned Chen style and from that developed Yang style. 

When you say short form now many postures are you talking about? The length of the form can sometimes tell you who it is from

You can always get some of Chen Zhengei's books they are pretty informative. Also there is a website Chenwired.com that has a lot of good info as well as some pretty experienced Chen practitioners. And there is chenstyle.com too. Also look at Chen style videos on YouTube of Chen Xiaowang, Chen Zhenglei, Chen Xiaoxing and Chen You.


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## tberkery (Jan 7, 2008)

Thank you for the information, I apologize for not getting back in a timely manner. I will definietly check out that site.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 7, 2008)

No problem

I just thought of another one to check out on youtube
Feng Zhiqiang student of Chen Fa Ke. He has changed it a bit but he is rather impressive.


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## grydth (Jan 7, 2008)

I have always wondered just how much difficulty that last gentleman had convincing people that he was authentic.....


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## Rabu (Jan 7, 2008)

Indeed.  But most likely would only have had an issue in english speaking countries where his name would have been spelled that way.

Like in the sci fi movie 'Alien Nation' where the alien partner tells his cohort that his human name is 'sam francisco' and the human laughs.  The alien responds with 'sykes...funny name...means 'excrement cranium' in our tongue'.....

well stated btw Xue.  neat resources, thank you.

Rob


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 8, 2008)

grydth said:


> I have always wondered just how much difficulty that last gentleman had convincing people that he was authentic.....


 
Feng Zhiqiang?

None at all actually he is a documented student of Chen Fa Ke he also has been allowed by the Chen family to call what he teachers Chen style and in China you don't do that and go public if you are not real, it will generally constitute a visit form the family and possibly a beating if you don&#8217;t stop. So I am guessing the Chen family is fine with Feng Zhiqiang. I will admit after watching multiple videos of him he is not exactly my cup of tea when it comes to Chen however.


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## East Winds (Jan 8, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

Must admit I hadn't heard of Feng Zhiqiang. I had a look at his stuff on You Tube, and whilst I thought his hand movements were a bit excessive, I rather liked his form. It is certainly "all there". Beautifully co-ordinated with excellent under-stated Fa Jing. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 8, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Xue Sheng,
> 
> Must admit I hadn't heard of Feng Zhiqiang. I had a look at his stuff on You Tube, and whilst I thought his hand movements were a bit excessive, I rather liked his form. It is certainly "all there". Beautifully co-ordinated with excellent under-stated Fa Jing. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
> 
> Very best wishes


 
A note on Feng Zhiqiang; He has recently retired and turned over everything to his daughter. He will take no more students and I am not sure if he is teachng at all anymore, he is 80 or will be this year.

Actually I believe Flying Crane would know more about him than I.


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## Flying Crane (Jan 8, 2008)

My teacher is a student of Master Feng, and he goes back to China a couple times a year or so to train with him in addition to bringing him or some of his other students back here to work with our group.  I've never had the chance to meet Master Feng, but I did work with one of the other guys who came back here.  He was kind of like a walking oak tree.  When he decided to move, nothing would stop him, he was just very very powerful.

Master Feng is actually senior to many of the people in Chen Village, including the current Head of the system (I can never remember his name, nor many of the others).  Master Feng actually helped train the current leaders of Chen style, as he remembered much more of it after the suppression during the cultural revolution.  I believe nobody was allowed to practice for a decade or so, and much was forgotten.  But Master Feng was already at a high level and was able to bring much of it back and propagate the method.  I believe he was accepting challenges into his 70s, and was basically untouchable.  A classmate of mine who had the chance to work with him in China was pretty much in awe of his abilities.  However, not being of the Chen Family, he doesn't hold any formal position in the heirarchy, altho he does hold a lot of respect.

Master Feng has made some changes to the art, and it is not exactly traditional Chen anymore, altho it is clearly based on Chen.  Over the years he has gradually made changes that he felt were appropriate, and finally, a few years ago, I believe he sort of announced that is it really a separate and distinct style from traditional Chen.  I believe it has been accepted by the Chinese martial arts community as such.  He has "layered" a lot over the traditional Chen, so the forms can seem more complex, for lack of a better description.  He has also softened a lot of it, reducing the explosive fa jing and foot stamps that he feels are harmful over a long period of time, in favor of a more subtle fa jing (I wish I had a better grasp of it all, I could explain it better).  He has also raised the stances a bit to avoid developing chronic knee problems that can manifest in traditional Chen.  I believe he still practices his versions of Chen set I and 2 that most Chen people are familiar with, but he has also developed some sets of his own that are not found outside his lineage.  In addition, he teaches some older sets, which were the foundations of Set 1 and Set 2.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 8, 2008)

See I told you Crane knew more



Flying Crane said:


> My teacher is a student of Master Feng, and he goes back to China a couple times a year or so to train with him in addition to bringing him or some of his other students back here to work with our group. I've never had the chance to meet Master Feng, but I did work with one of the other guys who came back here. He was kind of like a walking oak tree. When he decided to move, nothing would stop him, he was just very very powerful.
> 
> Master Feng is actually senior to many of the people in Chen Village, including the current Head of the system (I can never remember his name, nor many of the others). Master Feng actually helped train the current leaders of Chen style, as he remembered much more of it after the suppression during the cultural revolution. I believe nobody was allowed to practice for a decade or so, and much was forgotten. But Master Feng was already at a high level and was able to bring much of it back and propagate the method. I believe he was accepting challenges into his 70s, and was basically untouchable. A classmate of mine who had the chance to work with him in China was pretty much in awe of his abilities. However, not being of the Chen Family, he doesn't hold any formal position in the heirarchy, altho he does hold a lot of respect.
> 
> Master Feng has made some changes to the art, and it is not exactly traditional Chen anymore, altho it is clearly based on Chen. Over the years he has gradually made changes that he felt were appropriate, and finally, a few years ago, I believe he sort of announced that is it really a separate and distinct style from traditional Chen. I believe it has been accepted by the Chinese martial arts community as such. He has "layered" a lot over the traditional Chen, so the forms can seem more complex, for lack of a better description. He has also softened a lot of it, reducing the explosive fa jing and foot stamps that he feels are harmful over a long period of time, in favor of a more subtle fa jing (I wish I had a better grasp of it all, I could explain it better). He has also raised the stances a bit to avoid developing chronic knee problems that can manifest in traditional Chen. I believe he still practices his versions of Chen set I and 2 that most Chen people are familiar with, but he has also developed some sets of his own that are not found outside his lineage. In addition, he teaches some older sets, which were the foundations of Set 1 and Set 2.


 
Thanks Michael

His teacher Chen Fa Ke I believe developed Xinjia Yilu and erlu but he would have known Laojia Yilu and erlu as well as well as a few other Chen family forms. Chen Fa Ke was allegedly a rather good fighter and his students are supposedly pretty good too, although I am not sure how many are left alive other than Feng Sifu. Chen Fa Ke grandson (Chen You) is alive and well and teaching Chen in Beijing but he learned from his father Chen Zhaokui who learned from his father Chen Fa Ke. But I believe Chen You may only know Xinjia yilu and erlu


I have a lot of respect for Feng Sifu

Again Thanks :asian:


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 8, 2008)

OOPS

I should probably add that Chen Xiao Wang (born 1946) is I believe the head of the Chen family right now and is also one of the grandsons of Chen Fa Ke as is Chen Xiao Wang&#8217;s younger brother Chen Xiao Xing.


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## East Winds (Jan 8, 2008)

Michael,

Many thanks for that information. Although I am a Traditional Yang stylist, I have a soft spot for Chen which I trained a few years ago with a student of Chen Xiaowang's here in the UK.

Very best wishes


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## Flying Crane (Jan 8, 2008)

You are all welcome.  I would jump into these discussions more if I felt like I had a greater understanding of it all.  As it is, I just muddle thru it to the best of my ability, but I still often feel like I'm sort of grasping in the dark with it all.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 8, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> I still often feel like I'm sort of grasping in the dark with it all.


 
It's taiji, welcome to the club


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 9, 2008)

Feng Zhiqiang


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