# tai chi and Christian beliefs



## chiro4 (Sep 5, 2004)

I'm new to the martial arts. I was looking at different schools and have not decided what to take up. I came across tai chi. I know that Tai chi does some meditation. Is this meditation against the Christian belief system?  I have also heard that there is combat tai chi. Could anybody tell me what this is all about? In combat do they use striking, kicking. joint locks etc? How long does it take to learn? Is there a belt system as you progress? Could you direct me to any schools in the Buffalo, New York area that does Combat tai chi?


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## Xequat (Sep 5, 2004)

Christianity is a broad subject.  What particular denomination are we talking?  I know a little about Catholicism, and it is very much against worshiping other gods - nature gods, etc, but isn't prayer a type of meditation?  I don't believe that working with chi is really considered occult by the Catholic Church, and if so, then I don't agree with it.  I'm no priest, but I think you'll be fine.  Other faiths like Mormons, Southern Baptists, Methodists, etc I don't know.


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## TigerWoman (Sep 5, 2004)

I think in most cases, it will have to be determined by the availability of different arts in your area.  If you have a Tai Chi instructor nearby then just go talk to him.  The direct way is probably the best.  I don't think for example all Taekwondo instructors do meditation or chi stuff.  So neither are all Tai Chi instructors the same in their teaching and viewpoints. Most want all religious backgrounds so they will keep it neutral. My instructor is the extreme.  He seems to cultivate Christian fundamentalists and as he gets more, we get more Christian "teaching" in class. I would rather just be taught the TKD that I came for.  TW


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## Bushigokoro9 (Sep 5, 2004)

"I'm new to the martial arts."

welcome!


"I know that Tai chi does some meditation."

Most martial artists meditate.  How they meditate could be the core question and how do you define meditation vs. lets say prayer.  A quick definition might be prayer is communication between oneself and God.  Meditation is communication within one self.  Now you could communicate within one self on deeper means of your relationship with God according to Christian beliefs?????

Another question I have heard before is that the concept of Chi or Ki is against Christian beliefs?????  In my opinion only, I do believe in Ki and I also believe that we are created in the Creator's image.  Giving reverence to and acknowledging that Ki is created by God.   

"I have also heard that there is combat tai chi. Could anybody tell me what this is all about?"

That is a good question, I would ask, is the instructor teaching a martial art or a martial sport?  All martial arts are designed or perfected over time in combat to prevail against your adversary.  Martial sports are watered down versions of martial arts.  Martial sports can also be effective but operate under different guidelines.  One guideline is not better than the other but there is a difference.  The only time that one is better than the other is when you make a personal decision on what you want out of the art or sport that you are learning.  Ask your self, what do I want to get out of martial arts or martial sports?  Once you have your answer test it to see if it is accurate, if not then try the other.  

When I studied Tai Chi we were given all the exercises and forms but also the brass tack application of those exercises and forms.  Keeping in mind the true aspects of why you do the things you do.  For me, I study martial Arts.  I know of several others who prefer Martial sports.    


"Could you direct me to any schools in the Buffalo, New York area that does Combat tai chi?"

Not living in North Western PA any longer I cannot help there but I am sure that the fine folks here can be of great assistance.

Best Regards!


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## bignick (Sep 5, 2004)

from a pure christianity standpoint...anything that becomes more important to you than your relationship with God can be considered a false idol. Money, women, power...you name it....also, in buhddism...you meditate to achieve enlightment...this, i believe is against christian values since it implies salvation through your own actions, not the grace of God...on the other hand...other people have said in other posts that during class when they meditate, the meditate on God...which is talked about in the Bible...praying = talking to God...meditation = listening....

whether or not it infringes on your beliefs is a question you can only answer...

personally, i see no problem whatsoever practicing any martial art with christianity...but like i said...those are MY views...


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## bignick (Sep 5, 2004)

i forgot to mention in the last post that i am Christian...rereading...i came across as non-christian..speaking from the outside...


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## bignick (Sep 5, 2004)

here i am again...this was a reply i sent to a private message i recieved about this thread and i thought i'd share some more of my thoughts....cause their free(and worth even less)



> i am not a buddhist either, i'm christian...this is just what i've come to understand through reading, discussion, etc...i have no problem with buhddist meditations...i was just answering from a strict christian point of view...which states that you can't recieve salvation, aka go to heaven...through your own actions...I am not familiar enough with buddhist philosophy to speak on the matter at length...but the descriptions of enlightment that i'm accustomed to, the ultimate goal is to achieve Nirvana which is the end of suffering...the end of being reborn(reincarnation)...not exactly the afterlife in the strictest "heaven/hell" sense...but enough similarities that i'd equate them on the same level...doing some quick(aka hasty) research...i believe enlightment and nirvana are seperate entities and you came closer to describing enlightenment as a greater understanding of the world...there are many ways that different cultures/sects of buddhism try to achieve this...Zen - through the long hours of meditation that we are familiar with, Tantric philosophy tries to achieve enlightenment through ritualized sexual practices...these are just two of the most well known...but at the end the goal...from what I understand is Nirvana...and it is achieved through your actions...
> 
> Of course, to make things simple...practicing buddhism is against the strictest definitions of christianity since most western religions are mutually exclusive...which is one of the problems we run into when dealing with eastern philosophy since they are inclusive...there is nothing wrong with being a shinto buddhist...or a taoist confucian...you take what works for you and go with it...
> 
> On another note...i think we can make a distinction between meditation to gain enlightenment and meditation to clear the mind and prepare for action...which is what a lot of martial arts schools do before practice...here...the meditation is no different than just catching your breath and making sure your focused on the class and not distracted by what's going on in the outside world (school, work, family, politics, terrorism, etc...)...which i feel is one of the great appeals of martial arts....


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## vampyre_rat (Sep 6, 2004)

For me christianity has no problem with tai chi. Most of my classes are on a variety of church halls and he churches involved would not allow 'occult' practices in their place of worship.

Chi is a term used in traditional chinese medicine, it is not a 'magical power' per se, just a useful name to describe a number of sensations that occur in practice.

Although tai chi is viewed as a daoist art, it is not really tied into daoist religion. The philosophy is a fairly essential part, but for me this ties in quite well with my christian beliefs. Confucian philosophy is also prevalent in the practice. But it is philosophy and not religion. If you are wondering what a daoist priest would say, you should find a book called 'Monestary of Jade Mountain by Peter Guillart. In the book an abbot tells him that Christianity is no hinderance to his staying in a daoist temple. (A really good book it can be found at www.llanerchpress.com)

Finally in Robert Smiths book Chinese Boxing: Masters and Methods, I believe Paul Kuo (a teacher of tai chi, ba gua and hsing i) is a devout christian.

I feel that they compliment each other and do not hinder or detract from each other. Daoist and Confucian philosophy are about trying to be a decent human being, things that I feel He would most heartily approve.

As an aside, combat tai chi? It is hard to ensure that it is really tai chi and not an art that looks like tai chi, but isn't. Tai chi is not about physical strength. If you go too quickly after the martial side, you may find it hard to leave the muscular behind. If you use hard physical strength, you are not doing tai chi. (IMHO) 

If you can leave that hard physical side behind, then you will be able to explore the art fully and be able to appreciate it more.  Best of luck finding a school.


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## wingchunner (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm a christian and I teach Wing Chun, Tai Chi, and other internal martial arts.  Let me know of any specific questions you might have.  You can email me at:
wingchunner@yahoo.com

I have found that the internal martial arts complement my Christian walk.  But, you have to have a good teacher.

Marty


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## punisher73 (Sep 14, 2004)

Short answer "no". But again as others have said talk to the instructor and see how he teaches the class. There is alot of "new age" tai chi that I have run across that adds in their own beliefs that may go against what you believe as a Christian.

You will also run into "christian" denominations that say that ALL martial arts are cults and to study MA is a sin.  

Know what you believe and why you believe it and then choose according to your beliefs whether or not it is against them.


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## CMack11 (Sep 21, 2004)

Read "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nat Hanh.  It will explain how there are many similarities between Buddhist teachings and Christian ones.  I think as long as you honor God with whatever you are doing (even meditation) that it doesn't conflict with your Christian beliefs.  

How do you feel about it?  Do you think God would care if you meditate or perform Tai Chi?


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## loki09789 (Sep 21, 2004)

Taoism is the philosophical idea that Tai Chi derives from or expresses or is an exercise to understand better...how ever you want to phrase it.

If you want to reconcile this issue for yourself, read up on the Taoist tenets and beliefs.

I think there is room for "God/Jesus" in the framework of Taoism even if Taoism does not address them directly.  I would think that simply viewing the idea of Chi as a life force and defining it as "spirit" or "holy spirit" would create a bridge of meaning for most folks with a Judeo/Christian background.

Taoism isn't really 'anti-' much of anything.  Christianity and christians tend to be leary of practices that may open people up other ways to tap into 'spirit' because of a historic competition with other religions for followers.

Taoism is a 'seeking the natural course' type of philosophy.  There is no Higher power that is worships per se.  If you see the "natural course" of things as "Divine" then you can see the links.


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