# goju karate



## drummingman (Oct 29, 2006)

does anyone study this style of karate? what do you think of it if you do?
here is a web site about it if you guys wanna check it out. http://www.americangoju.com
im going to check out a class tomorrow night.
im nursing an injury right now so thats why im doing all this research trying to see what style i want to take while im hurt.i hope to start up lessons in a style or system when im better.


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## arnisador (Oct 29, 2006)

I studied it years ago and liked it a lot. But then, I had a great instructor (Vinson Grace of Syracuse, NY).


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## exile (Oct 29, 2006)

It has a rep for being a very complete, deadly-serious fighting style with a lot of the old Okinawan tuite moves likely to be in the curriculum, and a lot of the Chinese combat systems that went into Okinawan karate still right on the surface (along with the more linear striking aspects that were amplified in the Japanese developments of Okinawa-te). A good mix, in short.  My impression is, it's very well respected as a combat style. In _The Way of Kata_, Kane & Wilder talk about some of the `classic' bunkai interpretations associated with Goju-ryu kata and the whole impression which emerges is quite positive one... if you have a chance to study it, it could be just what you're looking for.


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## drummingman (Oct 29, 2006)

it sounds really cool being that it mixes both hard and soft into the same style.
the teacher also teaches jujitsu and i asked him about adding that in for ground fighting.
check out his site and tell me what you think. http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com
if you see any red flags as to why i should not study there please let me know.
thanks so much.


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## KOROHO (Oct 29, 2006)

There is ground fighting in Goju Ryu, so it should not be necessary to add Jujutsu for that reason. 
I trained in Goju Ryu as well as in Aikido, at different places.  One of the teachers at the Aikido school also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo.  He once said that every technique that is in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu, atleast some variation of it.  I tend to believe that.  I also know people who have done Goju Ryu demonstrations and were asked afterwards what style of Jujutsu that was.
Taught in it's pure form, it is a very comlete and well rounded fighting style, dealing with different ranges, including the ground.
I, like the Goju Ryu and other teachers I have trained with, study different arts for various reasons.  They all have something different to offer.  Even though Goju RYu will contain everything you will learn at a good Jujutsu school, the difference is mainly in the approach to teaching.
If you like grappling, you will like Goju Ryu.  Unless the school either does not spend much time on the grappling, or the teacher never learned it - in which case they will tell you they had to add Jujutsu to make up for what it is lacking.
If you like this school, go to it.  But ask a lot of questions - especially about lineage and where the instructor got his training and credentials.  You want to be assured you are being taught properly and completely.
If you can not find a Goju Ryu school affiliated with one of the major Goju organizations, you should be able to find curriculum information and compare kata and bunkai, etc. and make sure you are atleast being taught the same things.


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## drummingman (Oct 29, 2006)

hi koroho.did you check out the site? the dojo is affiliated with urban goju fighting network.here is the website http://www.americangoju.com
tell me what you think.


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## Robert Lee (Oct 29, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> There is ground fighting in Goju Ryu, so it should not be necessary to add Jujutsu for that reason.
> I trained in Goju Ryu as well as in Aikido, at different places. One of the teachers at the Aikido school also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo. He once said that every technique that is in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu, atleast some variation of it. I tend to believe that. I also know people who have done Goju Ryu demonstrations and were asked afterwards what style of Jujutsu that was.
> Taught in it's pure form, it is a very comlete and well rounded fighting style, dealing with different ranges, including the ground.
> I, like the Goju Ryu and other teachers I have trained with, study different arts for various reasons. They all have something different to offer. Even though Goju RYu will contain everything you will learn at a good Jujutsu school, the difference is mainly in the approach to teaching.
> ...


I hate to say it But Aikido And goju ryu are very different Go ju really does not cover the ground game that much Few ground tools at all. Joint locks, destructions,
Take down And take strikes and some on ground defnce positions are in the training. But mostly. Waist high or lower kicks Hand strike closed and open hand. Goju ryu You have a little difference between japanes and Okinawan styles. Go ju ryu is one of the older base line Karate styles. From  Influenced from a blend of naha te. and shorini temple boxing. Given the name By Miyagi Of Goju Ryu. It is a good art. considered a TMA, You have Kata Bunki and kisokumite. Along with Jiyu kumite training of coarse the prearranged and non arrnged drill, also. Urban Had been active for many years I believe he was more japanese based Goju rather then Okinawan based. A slight difference.


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## Haze (Oct 30, 2006)

The school looks good! Give it a try.

I've been studying Goju on and off for 20 yrs. Good system but it does not cover much grappling/ground game. The jujitsu will be a great add on to it.

Goju does have some locks and breaks but it is mainly a stand up striking art.

Urban/USA Goju comes from the Yamaguchi version of Japanese Goju


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## KOROHO (Oct 30, 2006)

I did look at the site.
I think you can get very good overall training there.  But then again, that is only judging by a web site.
American Goju is different than the Japanese and Okinawan.  But I never trained in it. 

Goju, as you probably know translates to mean "hard and Soft".  But JU is better translated to mean YIELDING as opposed to soft.  It is this aspect of Goku Ryu that makes it very similar to other grappling and throwing arts such as Jujutsu and even Aikido.  

Every technique you will find in Aikido you will find in Goju Ryu.  Of course there are differences, just as there are differences between Aikido and Jujutsu.  But they are more similar than different.  

As for the gound fighting in Goju Ryu:  I never saw a syllabus or list of techniques identified as "ground fighting".  But once you know how to do a joint lock, it should not matter to you whether the opponent is standing or on the ground, it pretty much works the same.  You have to learn to apply the principles that you learn to all situations.  That includes "uke", which so many incorrectly translate to mean "block".  This is better translated as "reception".  When you receive an attack, it should not matter whether you are standing up, on your knees or lying on your back - the same basic principles apply.  I only had 2 Goju Ryu teachers. They both came from different lineage, neither had Jujutsu training but both taught ground applications of Goju Ryu kata.

Also, it was an Aikido teacher of mine who also taught Goju Ryu at another dojo who used to bring his Goju Ryu students to the Aikido class so they can see the similarities.

Okinawan Karate, especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu, are very much grappling arts.  Sadly, a lot of the bunkai was lost as Karate became more sport oriented.  We seem to be seeing a revivial of the teaching of bunkai.

I don't see anything wrong with mixing karate and jujutsu.  That's how we got Shindo Jinen Ryu and Wado Ryu and others.  But these styles came about out of the founders own personal experience, preferences and creativity.  Not due to the karate they learned being inferior or incomplete.


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## KOROHO (Oct 30, 2006)

Haze said:


> Good system but it does not cover much grappling/ground game. The jujitsu will be a great add on to it.
> 
> Goju does have some locks and breaks but it is mainly a stand up striking art.
> 
> Urban/USA Goju comes from the Yamaguchi version of Japanese Goju



You can get a glimpse of the grappling aspect in Morio Higaonna's video series from Dragon-Tsunami.  When I learned the bunkai to the kata, we did about an even mix of grappling and striking.  

It used to be that the grappling was taught only to advanced students.  But the advent of BJJ brought on the need to bring it out earlier in order to gain interest and even retain students who might be getting more interested in the grappling arts. 

It's also likely that Mr. Urban either was never taught grappling or removed it for some reason and that is one of the differences between American and Okinawan Goju.

Although I am working on introducing the art of Koroho to the U.S., I now primarily teach 3 arts: Yoshinkan Aikido, Ba Men Taichi Chuan and Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo.  Shito Ryu has much in common with Goju Ryu and most of the bunkai that I teach was learned in Goju Ryu.  Most of my students cross train in atleast 2 arts.  We spend a lot of time focused on the similarites.  Even when I teach applications to the Taichi forms, I borrow things from Aikido and Karate.  They are all very much interchangeable.  Someday I'll have to test students by demonstrating some "one steps" and have them guess whether it was an Aikido, Taichi or Karate technique.  The main difference will be in the feel as opposed to the look of the technique, so it will not really be too fair of a test unless they are uke  (the receiver of the technique not the blocker of the technique)


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## drummingman (Oct 31, 2006)

wow,thanks for the info koroho! where do you teach?


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

I teach in Fort Wayne, Indiana.  Most of my classes are at the Fort Wayne Parks and Recreation.  But I do local seminars, private classes and some extra classes at a friends dojo.  www.jimmccoy.com/shindokan.cfm

I came back today not only to see if there were things to respond to but to share something that I just stumbled on.

I was reading a web site about Taichi and came upon this quote in one of the paragraphs:

"[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]     If the opponent is hard, I am soft; this is called "receiving".
     If I go with the opponent and cause him to be defective, this is called     "adhering".

This is Taichi, but it is also Goju Ryu.  In earlier posts I mentioned how "uke" means "receiving" as opposed to "blocking".  This is the JU of Goju Ryu.
Also in Goju Ryu you will learn about "MUCHIMI" or "heavy and sticky" - that is the "adhering" that this Taichi author is writing about.  Goju Ryu is a wonderful Chinese art that was heavily influenced by the Okinawan striking and grappling arts.

This quote also speaks volumes about Yoshinkan Aikido.

Here's the rest of the Taichi article in case there's an interest:
http://www.karott.com/taichi/resources/classics.asp
scroll down to [/FONT]T'ai Chi Cbuan Ching Attributed to Immortal Wang Chung-yueh
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work.  I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it.  But he's done some terrific work.

A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers.  But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.


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## Robert Lee (Oct 31, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work. I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it. But he's done some terrific work.
> 
> A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers. But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.


I trained okinawi8n Go Ju ryu For many years I would like to know Where you get much ground work in with its training. Sure in kata there are some joint strikes destructions take downs But mostly  stand in Go Ju.


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## exile (Oct 31, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> For more on the grappling side of Okinawan Karate in general, read some of Patrick McCarthy's work.  I'll find his web site later on and post the link if you can't find it.  But he's done some terrific work.
> 
> A lot of what I have come to learn about the grappling aspect of Karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu) came from my Goju and Shito Ryu teachers.  But McCarthy Sensei, thruogh his research, talks with oldr masters and translating old works, confirmed a lot about what I already believed about Karate and it's origins.



McCarthy is part of this great wave of kata reassessment that has been sweeping through UK karate since around the turn of the century. I think of him as part of the same gang as Iain Abernethy and Rick Clark. These guys are making some terrific discoveries about karate and related arts.

Javier Martinez is another one in that movement, whose special area of investigation is Okinawan karate bunkai (I think JM's lineage is Isshinryu, not sure though). Very good book (though in need of some editing!) on Tuite as a covert component of Okinawan bunkai.


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

You get "the ground work in" just by doing it.

If your asking which of the students did Miyagi specifically take and say "this is for on the ground" I don't know.  I know that we have always taken things out of the Goju Ryu kata and applied them as joint locks and throws - many of these techniques are mistaken as being blocks.  There is a lot more than just "some joint strikes and destructions" in Goju Ryu.

Like I said, everything you will find in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu - not necessarily the Aiki concepts of beldning, etc - thise where the seperation comes.  But you will find shiho nage, kote gaeshi, ikkajon, nikkajo, sankajo - all the basics and then some.

When you understand the applications of the techniques standing, then you take them to the ground.  If you know how to do sanshin dachi, then you know how to do jujigatame.  I personally do not know any long term Goju Ryu practiitoners who did not learn grappling and ground fighting.

What was news to me when I first started participating in these boards was there were people that did not know there was grappling and groundfighting in Goju Ryu. 

I ran across one Goju teacher who did a demonstration and was surprised when someone came over and asked him who his Aikido teacher was.  I have taght classes in bunkai to karate students who thought it was a jujutsu seminar.

Like I said, I am just shocked to see that people think there is either very little or none at all of the grappling and groundfighting in Goju.  I learned it as a grappling/throwing art.  I do still teach Karate although not much anymore, I may even disocntinue it.  But the only real difference between Goju Ryu and the Jujutsu/Aikido that I teach is that the karate students learn more striking techniques.  I usually have them come to Aikido class to  learn to do the breakfalling and also so they understand the differences between the 2 arts.


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

exile said:


> McCarthy is part of this great wave of kata reassessment that has been sweeping through UK karate since around the turn of the century. I think of him as part of the same gang as Iain Abernethy and Rick Clark. These guys are making some terrific discoveries about karate and related arts.
> 
> Javier Martinez is another one in that movement, whose special area of investigation is Okinawan karate bunkai (I think JM's lineage is Isshinryu, not sure though). Very good book (though in need of some editing!) on Tuite as a covert component of Okinawan bunkai.



My own Karate lineage goes back to Shogo Kuniba of Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo.  He worked very hard to restore the teaching of the old bunkai starting atleast in the 1960's.  It was not very popular then because people were clamoring for competition and the push was on to promote point fighting and kata was being looked at as a dance. 

My original Goju Ryu teacher (Bill Knoblock of the NKJU) I know did a lot of independent research as well which pretty much paralleled the things that Kuniba was doing.  I do know that he learned Goju Ryu in the Phillipines some time probably in the late 60's.  I just don't know who from.
I used to think he came up with these applications on his own, but then about 10 years later I met some students of Morio Higaonna who were teaching the same things as Knoblock - heavy grappling, joint locks, throws and ground work.


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## ArmorOfGod (Oct 31, 2006)

drummingman said:


> http://www.sanyamabushi-goju.com
> if you see any red flags as to why i should not study there please let me know.
> thanks so much.


 
I see one big red flag on the home page.  The person has an award from the ICMAUA.  Go to their website and pick your rank.  For $40, they will send you your certificate stating that you are that rank.  Maybe this guy is legit, but why would he get messed up with organization like that.  Make sure he has rank from someone other than this organization.  If he does, then that is okay.  If not, go somewhere else.

Also he has a black panther logo at the bottom of the home page.  Is that his style animal, or does he support the old Black Panther political party of the 1970's?  About 30 years ago, our style used the black panther, but had to drop it due to the civil unrest caused when the Black Panthers started being very active in the late 60's and early 70's.  It is probably just his animal, but we had to change our style animal, so I was wondering if it was a similar situation.

AoG


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## exile (Oct 31, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> My own Karate lineage goes back to Shogo Kuniba of Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo.  He worked very hard to restore the teaching of the old bunkai starting atleast in the 1960's.  It was not very popular then because people were clamoring for competition and the push was on to promote point fighting and kata was being looked at as a dance.



Yes, sport karate has gone in a parallel direction to WTF Taekwondo. When I read Iain Abernethy's book on combat-effective bunkai, there wasn't a single sentence in which the phrase `sport karate' appeared where you couldn't have substituted `Olympic-style TKD' with exactly the same degree of truth. The difference is that sport karate is still not the main profile of karate, where with TKD... :uhohh: 

My original Goju Ryu teacher (Bill Knoblock of the NKJU) I know did a lot of independent research as well which pretty much paralleled the things that Kuniba was doing.  I do know that he learned Goju Ryu in the Phillipines some time probably in the late 60's.  I just don't know who from.
I used to think he came up with these applications on his own, but then about 10 years later I met some students of Morio Higaonna who were teaching the same things as Knoblock - heavy grappling, joint locks, throws and ground work.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's not surprising, in a way---Higaonna was one of the great masters of Okinawa-te, and you can't help getting the sense that the Okinawan masters kept a connection to the `deep' bunkai for their art much more than any of the other developments of karate managed to. 

The important thing, though, is that Knoblock may well have been discovering these apps on his own. If something is real, it's gonna be discovered by more than one person.


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## KOROHO (Nov 1, 2006)

ArmorOfGod said:


> I see one big red flag on the home page. The person has an award from the ICMAUA. Go to their website and pick your rank. For $40, they will send you your certificate stating that you are that rank.



Good catch AoG.  I did not follow the links.
I know nothing about the people that run ICMAUA but any organization that doesnot verify credentials of members and just sends out certificates is bound to have troubles. 

This school appears to have lineage to Peter Urban.  I know he died a few years ago so maybe they split off from the group after that.  It would not be uncommon.  But there should be certificates, if not from Urban himself then from some senior affiliated with him.


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## Haze (Nov 1, 2006)

KOROHO said:


> Although I am working on introducing the art of Koroho to the U.S., I now primarily teach 3 arts: Yoshinkan Aikido, Ba Men Taichi Chuan and Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo.  Shito Ryu has much in common with Goju Ryu and most of the bunkai that I teach was learned in Goju Ryu.



You say that most of the bunkai you teach was learned in Goju Ryu but I don't see you ranked in Goju Ryu. Did you study Goju?

(from your site)
*Current Styles, Ranks of Jim Mc Coy*:
*Koroho Goshinjutsu, U.S. Director, Shihan
        Goshin Budo Jujutsu (aka Kuniba Ryu Goshindo) 4th Dan
        2nd Level Instructor, Ba Men Taichi Chuan 
        Motobuha Shito Ryu Karatedo, 2nd Dan
        Judo, 1st Dan
        Mugai Ryu Iaihyodo 3rd Dan
        Keisatsu Aikido 2nd Dan*

And if all this was taught to you or learned by you in Goju Ryu, why did you spend time in jujutsu training and Aikido training to learn what you claim is taught in Goju Ryu?

(no hostility intended, just curious)

I have some training in jujutsu and it has helped me look at some goju bunkai from a new prospective.


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## KOROHO (Nov 1, 2006)

Fair questions.

I started in Tae Kwon Do.  My teacher left due to the politics as they made the move toward Olympic sport.  We joined the National Karate and Jujutsu Union, which exposed us to a lot of other things.  We adopted Motobuha Shito Ryu as the main style of the school.
Later,after finishing school, I moved out of state and could not find a suitable teacher so I looked at other styles.

I studied Goju Ryu with Bill Knoblock of the NKJU and also under Jong Lee of IOGKF.  But I never tested for any rank.

The other styles I took up partly due to the lack of qualified teachers in the areas where I lived as I travelled with my work.  Also, over a period of time I grew more and more interested in exploring the similarites of the arts.

I got into Taichi when I moved here to Indiana.  I discovered an old senior black belt of Shogo Kuniba's and wanted to train with him.  He was also teaching Taichi now and I went to a seminar.  I was always fascinated by Taichi and it's similarity to Aikido.  With no other Aikido in the area, Taichi was a good choice for me.

For the most part, the different styles are just different approaches to teaching the same things.  There are differences of course.  But they are all closely intertwined.

Jujutsu also gave me a new perspective on the karate kata.  It had the same influence on Kuniba which sparked the creation of Kuniba Ryu.  It was only after training with Knoblock, Lee and my Aikido teacher Lyn Gray of the Goju Ryu Karatedo Kyokai, that I came to understand that there was no need to learn Jujutsu - it was all there in the kata.

But some people just prefer the training methods of one style over the other, or perhaps the philosophy behind the system.  Everything in Aikido is in Goju Ryu.  But in Goju Ryu you will also learn striking - maybe some people don't like striking.  Others will be attracted to Aikido by the non-violent philosophy.  Others to Goju to learn some other aspect of that.

But in the end, they ultimately end up teaching the same things.


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## Haze (Nov 1, 2006)

Mr. McCoy,

Thank you for the reply. I do agree with you as far as most arts use the 
same/variations on techniques. There are only so many basic kicks, punches, locks, throws, chokes, etc. I guess it is as you say. The way its taught, what is given preference. Karate (goju) was my first choice. I liked striking. But I find as I get older I tend to think more along the lines of locks and submissions.

Again, thanks for your reply.


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## Robert Lee (Nov 1, 2006)

From what I am reading now Is that you are saying you putting your ground and grappling in with your Go Ju training. I still see Goju as A more upright art That trains joint destruction, Breaks and throws then standing ground strikes Little to no On the ground manuvers Then The strikes and kicks. Sure you can go to the ground and defend but less focus is trained in Traditional Go ju On this. And In the 1960s Most MA schools were still doing plenty of Kata, bunki and Kisokumite training. Tournaments were even much different. Groin kicks were allowed Take downs Head punching Ect. rules changed really alot around 1980 to 82. Contact started around 1975. I remember the Old point tournaments They had ambulances there Some people got broken legs arms Ect. You see very little of that now days at all in this type. But I still see Go ju Very differnt then Aikido.


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## KOROHO (Nov 1, 2006)

Goju and Aikido are much more the same than different.  That does not mean no different - just very very similar.  Again, every technqiue in Aikido will be found in Goju Ryu. 
The difference between Aikido's execution and Goju's execution is in the Aiki.
This is the same difference between Aikido and Jujutsu.

Contrary to popular belief, ground fighting is not something new.  It has been iin Jujutsu for centuries, Judo from the beginning and Karate from the beginning - including Goju Ryu.  Just because some teachers either never taught it, or never figured it out for themselves, or chose not to teach it, does not mean it never existed before.  If you fully explore that kata and understand what you are doing you will see an awful lot of grappling, throws, sweeps, joint locks, chokes, and a host of things that can be easily applied on the ground.

Not just in Goju Ryu, but in relation to all Okinawan karate, I had always been told that  "a kick is a sweep and a throw", "a block is strike is a throw" "blocks" always become joint locks, chokes or a throw of some sort.
And these techniques are just as easily applied on the ground as standing.
I seriously doubt that Miyagi did not teach technqiues on the ground, as I am certain that he was taught.  I also think it odd that 3 different teachers from 3 different lines of Goju in 3 different parts of the country just happen to make up the same ground applications from the kata.  I'm sure they learned it from some where.  And the only common link is Miyagi himself.

Yes, the rules of Karate tournaments changed since the 60's, but we also started seeing new American "kata" being created and the even experiemntation with musical kata.  Even in Japan karate changed drastically in the 60's as tournaments became more popular.

Before there were tournaments there were no rules at all to fighting.  The addition of any rules was a drastic change.  As soon as the focus turned to the entertainment value of the kata performance, that was the beginning of the end for bunkai.  It was never completely lost, but it was seriously endangered.  By the time Shogo Kuniba started teaching Kata here in the late 60's-70's there were a lot of people that never heard the word bunkai.
His ideas seemed all new to people then, but he was teaching pre-WW2 Karate.  Then it seemed to die down some and now again people are "rediscovering" the ancient kata.  Perhaps the common notion that ground fighting is new is yet another sign that the older arts just are not fully understood.

One more thing:

Goju Ryu can be seen as primarily a standup art.  That would be because the objective is put your attacker on the ground while you stay standing.
Going to the ground yourself when you don't have to is foolish and dangerous.  But even karateka of old had to have some defense in the event that they did get knocked down.

At it's most basic levels Goju Ryu is a standup striking art.  As students get more advanced they learn the grappling applications.  Then the more advanced students learned the ground fighting.  Those that I learned the ground applications from decided to start teaching it sooner because of the  growing popularity of BJJ.  But as I said, it has always been there.


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## drummingman (Nov 2, 2006)

what is bunkai?
what is the difference between american goju ryu karate and the other types? what other types are there?
what are some good books/websites  by patrick mccarthy and others that covers ground fighting in karate? is this from the goju rye karate perspective? 
are there other books by other authors that deal with the ground fighting in goju ryu specifically and books that deal with ground fighting in all forms of okinawan karate?


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

The word BUNKAI essentially means "to dissect" or "pick apart".  It is used to mean "the applications of the techniques in the kata"
I never really studied Mr. Urban's American Goju.  But from those I have come across on these boards - the main difference seems to be the lack of focus on grappling.  They take a more simplistic view of the kata as teaching "block. punch, kick" fighting technqiues.  What I learned in Okinawan Goju Ryu is to look beyond the strikes and look at "blocks" as receiving the attack and applying ajoint lock, looking at the kicks as sweeps and throws.  I learned to look at all strikes from different angles in combination with the stances to see if it is feasible for it to be more than just a strike.

I am only passingly familiar with Pat McCarty's work.  I did buy his translation of Choki Motobu's book.  I assume that in his other works he discusses the ground fighting.  But I don't think he wrote specifically about Goju Ryu - more Okinawan Karate in general.  I would reccomend anything that he wrote.

For another view on Bunkai, you may want to check out "ShihaniTe: The Bunkai Of Karate Kata" by Darrell Craig and Paul Anderson.  It takes a generic look at Okinawan Kata withoug being style specific and teaches how to identify grappling technqiues "hidden" in the kata of your own style.
I would advise though, that the book may not apply to American versions of the kata, as many Americans changed the kata without having an understanding of bunkai

As for branches of Goju Ryu, there are the original Okinawan as passed on by the founder Miyagi Chojun, then there is Japanese Goju Ryu started by Yamaguchi and then Urban's USA Goju Ryu.  Of course there are now different factions of each group. 

If you want to learn Goju Ryu you may want to look into the IOGKF.  It is a large organization with dojo all over the country.  There may be one near you. 

In Virginia there is also a rather large number of Motobuha Shito Ryu schools spread around the state due mainly to Shogo Kuniba settling there in the Portsmouth area.  If there is no Goju Ryu this will be an option for you as the 2 have much in common.


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## Journeyman (Nov 2, 2006)

There's also Chinese Goju which was created by Ron van Clief who I think was a student of Urban.  Don't know how it differs from the other gojus.  van Clief fought in one of the early UFC events and was choked out by Royce Gracie.  I think van Clief still holds the record for being the oldest competitor in the UFC at over 50 years of age when he competed.


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

Goju is essentially a Chinese art.  Higaoona had a background in Okinawan martial arts then travelled to China where he is reputed to have lived and trained for 14 years.  What he taught to Miyagi was relatively unchanged form what he learned in China.  Even today you will find people in China still practicing what appear to be "Goju Ryu" forms.

I assume what Mr. Van Clief did was learn the Ameircanized version of Goju Ryu, then rather than go to Okinawan version, he went on to explore the Chinese roots of the system.  I don't know if he teaches the grappling aspects that are also part of the Chinese systems.

I did hear about him entering the UFC, which does take a lot of guts to begin with.  At over 50 years old, it's really a gutsy move.  Some people take his loss to Gracie as a sign of the inferiority of his style.  But the rules of these matches are always written to favor the host's style of fighting.  

I'm not at a point where I would reccomend someone train in this style, but I also would not say to stay away from it either.  If anyone has information on this menthod I would like to read it.


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## Robert Lee (Nov 2, 2006)

Yes Go Ju ryu Kata has chokes take downs sweeps Joint locks Flips Ect. Kata bunki demonstrates this in both offence and defence moves of the Kata. The old Koru Kata. Is the Key to Go ju ryu. The giekisi kata Kiekaha and Kakuha kata. Was Miyagi More or less The tandaku Was Toguchi He felt it could be the unified Kata for All karate. But It stayed Just with His Go Ju. We were taught Break falls. And defence on the ground aginst a standing attacker. And Very little Ground defence. At all In Okinawin Go Ju ryu. And yes you could put your own ground defence game into it If need. But As yet I Was Not taught It or Others that I new Or visited Were not Taught It. I even have 2 good friends That after Shodan In Go Ju went on to Aikido And they seen a big difference between Go Ju and aikido. They are now 5th And 4th degree blackbelts in Aikido. Sure you can see some closeness in every art out there. But what you practice for rank In both of these arts. Is as different as night and day. Just the softness trained aikido wise Then a person coming from A karate art. There is much difference. The Karate person has to make a big change . Jujitsu Is more direct then aikido. More aggressive in its action. Aikijutsu is even different But they are related But you train different And apply your training A little different. After a person trains a M/A for sometime. They can relate more to other arts and apply the simlarty If An aikido person went to train Karate they would have to change there method to learn. Today Karate is taught much different then the past. Why because It was changed for all people. Befor you was chosen to learn if an instructor chose to teach you. And far less kata was taught as You see since the 1920s Proir to that Karate was karate jutsu trained to a higher degree of self defence. But it changed and  became more a watered down art to meet the spread to the public.


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