# Good Fighter != Good Coach



## Rich Parsons (Apr 15, 2006)

A side discussion similiar to http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32816

Just because you are an accomplished or good fighter does that make you a good coach?

I would say no. 

From what I just saw on the UFC 3, I saw one side going to hard on his own guy just before a fight. The other not hard enough in training or building team mates. 


Thoughts?


----------



## RoninPimp (Apr 15, 2006)

I would also say no too. It sure is great when an instructor is both though.


----------



## Marginal (Apr 15, 2006)

Rich Parsons said:
			
		

> From what I just saw on the UFC 3, I saw one side going to hard on his own guy just before a fight. The other not hard enough in training or building team mates.


 
Ken's coaching doens't make a whole lot of sense as they've shown it so far. You'd think he'd have some capacity since he's been doing the Lion's Den for so long. Instead, he just looks like a crazy fossil. (Thing is, I don't especially care since his team seems stocked with morons. 'specially erratic beard dude.) 

So far, Tito's been less glaring in his mistakes. Neglecting team members seems like the one that's gonna come back to bite him sooner or later. Ankle guy's in the semi's so he has time to heal at least.


----------



## RoninPimp (Apr 15, 2006)

They got lucky that his lack of mobility wasn't an issue. He was drilling too hard the day before a fight imo.


----------



## Marginal (Apr 15, 2006)

No disagreement here. Seemed redundant to mention it again when I'd just quoted Rich though. I'm mainly curious to see if Tito learns from that fight. A mistake's one thing. Willful stupidity is another.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Apr 15, 2006)

OK not MMA guy here, and two other random people on this site all agree that the mistake was made, and that it could have been avoided. 

1) Is it becuase Tito HAD to prove his worth at training them so hard?

2) Is it because he does not want people to think of him as being soft?

3) Is it about making the fighter fit for his fight?

4) Is it about having the best team?

Ok I know it is easy to sit outside and second guess, but is it second guessing, yet is this more about the next fighter to come out of this or the EGO of the coach?


----------



## terryl965 (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely not a good fighter may not be able to get the info. across in a manner which to teach proper techniques. On the other hand a great teacher may not have been the greatest athlete.
Terry


----------



## Andrew Green (Apr 15, 2006)

Good fighters seem to rarely make good coaches.  They might have good things to share, but are not usually the guys to run the show.

TUF 3 is not looking good for either of them...

Ken is comming off as a hard nosed old timer that thinks better training means hitting harder.

Tito is coming off as getting to personal, picking favorites and not knowing when it's been enough.


----------



## stickarts (Apr 16, 2006)

Being a good fighter, while giving useful experience to draw on, is a very different skill set then being a good coach.
Otherwise, all of the greatest would have just coached themselves.
As an example, how would Angelo Dundee have done against Ali in a boxing match?   Yet Dundee was a great coach for him.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Apr 16, 2006)

stickarts said:
			
		

> Being a good fighter, while giving useful experience to draw on, is a very different skill set then being a good coach.
> Otherwise, all of the greatest would have just coached themselves.
> As an example, how would Angelo Dundee have done against Ali in a boxing match?  Yet Dundee was a great coach for him.


 
Good post and definately you are right.  Some people can make the transition and others just cannot or are not interested.  Some people have a special knack for fighting but not for conveying how to fight.  Other people have a great ability to pass on their knowledge even if they are not the greatest fighter in the world.  Some people have it all and can do both!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


----------



## Rich Parsons (Apr 16, 2006)

RoninPimp said:
			
		

> I would also say no too. It sure is great when an instructor is both though.



I agree. Is there something that can be done in MMA and in all Martial Arts for that manner to help them be both?



			
				RoninPimp said:
			
		

> They got lucky that his lack of mobility wasn't an issue. He was drilling too hard the day before a fight imo.



Yes, it was a good thing that Noah was a good wrestler and could work the ground like he did. 




			
				stickarts said:
			
		

> Being a good fighter, while giving useful experience to draw on, is a very different skill set then being a good coach.
> Otherwise, all of the greatest would have just coached themselves.
> As an example, how would Angelo Dundee have done against Ali in a boxing match?   Yet Dundee was a great coach for him.



So the expereince veteran is good to have to tell stories and also to share information and pass on what worked for them, but they still need a coach that has the fighter's best interest in mind, and not their own.


----------



## FearlessFreep (Apr 16, 2006)

This is a common issue with just about any form of training.  The 'problem' is that many times people that are great at what they do are great for a reason that works for them but since they are great, they have a hard time communicating it to others who many not have the same natural ability or biody type or personal experience or whatever.

This is very common  in baseball, especially with pitching and hitting instructors.  A journeyman pitcher with a long career is often a better pitching instructor then a Cy Young winning superstar.  If you don't have great  'stuff', an overpowering fastball, a wicked curve, pinpoint control, you learn to win with what you got and adapting the tools you have to what the situation demands, and you can pass that on to others.  Not 'how to blow people away with 95 mph heat up and in" because that really only works for very few people..so how do you teach pitching to the rest of the world when you win because you have a great fastball but not everyone has the potential to throw that hard?.  But "how to win with a decent fastball and some off-speed stuff".how to take advantage of and maximize what you have.

It has nothing to do with martial arts.  Simply that people who understand how to win with less, who understand the broad spectrum of the game, are often better coaches then people who are really great.  Many times the people that are great are great because they hae one or two things they do *really really well* and have a difficult time communicating to those of lesser talent and skill


----------



## Robert Lee (Apr 16, 2006)

An instructor or coaches job is to first find a way to motivate a person to bring out better performance. Be it M/A or anything else. Then demonstrate methods to enhance that performance point out what is seen as a weaker method  or stronger option as seen during training that would help improve the persons abilty. As woth any so called winner, someone or something has to be a motivater. That should be the coach or instructers key effert. Now as this has leaned to Tito And shamrock. As I have watched just 2 of the  past tv sessions. I do see ti to as the better trainer. As a fact I am impressed in how he is trying to pull and motivate His team. Strong workouts that push the demand on getting the body in shape And work the different aspects He thinks will help his team progress. Shamrock is standing back watching his tem train. First i have not seen as strong of conditioning training on his team. second Looks like he is not pointing out different aspect of improvement as well as Tito is. Now both have a dislike for each other. And both have fought well in the UFC I think Tito is the stronger coach and can train UFC trype fighters to do well. while Shamrock would have to take a person that has already trained well Then he could help them out in getting better. So I would say Tito is the better coach this time And has improved my way of seeing him as a person rather then a fighter. He seems to be a better person then what shows in his fights as it shows he is a team player.


----------



## Grenadier (Apr 17, 2006)

The fact that good fighters do not necessarily make good coaches holds true in all aspects of the world, and not just the martial arts.  

A good coach will be able to get the best out of the person (or people) he is training, and will keep their people motivated.  Good coaches can also see things in other people that can be improved.  

Just because someone is a top notch fighter, though, does not necessarily mean that he has the above mentioned abilities.  It takes a special kind of person to be a coach.


----------



## Hand Sword (Apr 21, 2006)

I would say no. Your fighting ability is yours. I remember in school there were teachers that had the degrees and knew their stuff, inside and out. However, some just couldn't get the info across to the students. Some people have the communication skills, and personality, some don't. From my expeience, it's very rare that one has both qualities.


----------

