# how many in the filipino arts do wing chun



## spatulahunter (Sep 19, 2004)

we touch on escrima in my wing chun class but it mainly wing chun. The escrima techniques are very similiar to alot of wing chun techniques and they seem to work very well in a chi sau situation. Ive also seen alot of other schools that cross the 2 arts, is there anyone else on the board that does both of feels they work well together?


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## Joe Eccleston (Sep 20, 2004)

http://www.wingchun.net/balindef.html

that's one link...


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## KyleShort (Sep 20, 2004)

In my experience, Wing Chun and Escrima share similarities but the more that I train the more I see how clearly distinguished they are from one another...in fact I would say that they are only remotely similar at best.  Granted my experience is very limitied, about two years training in Cheung style Wing Chun and now ~9 months of Doce Pares escrima.

When I started escrima I saw all of the trapping, hand to hand work as the same as escrima...but now the difference is clear.  Probably the biggest difference I notice is footwork and body posture.  In any case, just the thoughts of a newbie.

To more directly answer your question, my escrima instructor is also an experienced Wing Chun instructor, so I am sure that some of our drills are influenced by it, but we do not directly cross train per se.


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## arnisandyz (Sep 21, 2004)

Another diiference I have seen is that WC likes to control or dominate centerline. Many FMA likes to yield or bait centerline more than WC. "Open the door to come into my house, then slam it shut".


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## spatulahunter (Sep 21, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> "Open the door to come into my house, then slam it shut".



i like that


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## Danny T (Sep 21, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Another difference I have seen is that WC likes to control or dominate centerline. Many FMA likes to yield or bait centerline more than WC. "Open the door to come into my house, then slam it shut".



And this is not the manipulation or control of the centerline? In the FMA I study and train control of the center is of extreme importance. I do agree there is some differences in the way it is controlled however it is still controlled.

Danny T


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## arnisandyz (Sep 21, 2004)

Danny T said:
			
		

> And this is not the manipulation or control of the centerline?
> 
> Danny T



Of course center line theory is in all martial arts among other things.  I did not mean that FMA does not use center line, just that in some cases, the emphasis is not always the same as in WC.In WC, centerline is a primary (some would say dominating) theory used (correct me if I am wrong). In FMA it is used and is important but it isn't the overriding principle of FMA. Although WC does use weapons like butterfly swords and staff, weapon use is not to the extent of FMA. Through the weapon use other principles such as "defanging the snake" are also used.  Now a WC person may use his butterfly swords to cut an opponents limbs but its not stessed as much as it is in FMA. (just using this as one example).  One could also say that through the use of double butterfly swords elements of siniwali also appear in WC but not to the extent of FMA. WC also focuses more on close range. I'm not saying one art is better than the other, just trying to state differences.


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## Danny T (Sep 23, 2004)

Hmm... 





			
				arnisandyz said:
			
		

> I did not mean that FMA does not use center line, just that in some cases, the emphasis is not always the same as in WC..


Correct, some cases are different. Just because it is a FMA doesn't mean it is the same as other FMA. I would agree that many of the FMAs and WC are quite different. However, the wing chun training I have received has far more than empty hands. My instructor had me spend many months training with knives before doing any butterfly sword work. The original butterfly swords used by the Monks were sharp only on the last 3-4 inches of the tip. The swords were use more for parrying and trapping. The later versions had the entire blade edge sharp and the techniques utilized were different. Yes the manner in which the sword was utilized is different. However the knive work is very similar. As to wing chun focusing on close range that it does. So does the FMA I train. The best translation of the name is "To cut up small up close" meaning it is a close quarter system. We move from largo through medio to corto. Very little is done at medio most is done in corto. Therefore Footwork, position, control of the center and central lines are extremely important in the FMA I train in. Just because it is a FMA doesn't mean it is the same as other FMAs just as the different CMAs are not the same. What was the system designed for and why will answer many questions about the differences. Yes the pressure applied in some aspects is different however having trained in both wing chun and pekiti-tirsia for many years I can attest that they are very similar. Many of the "traps" found in WC when performed with a knife are the same as the "defanging the snake" techniques. Not all are exactly the same but many are very similar. Especially the close quarter empty hand and knife work.

Danny T


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## James Kovacich (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm still relatively new to FMA but at first I saw the similarities with the "empty hands" and now I'm seeing the differances. My muscle memory sometimes tells me differant than what I'm working on at that moment in FMA.

I was trained differant in modified Wing Chun but the differances are minor. Once adapted to doing things slightly differant it adds to the tools in the tool box.

My Sifu used to tell me things about doing chi sao with trad. Wing Chun players. He'd say things like  "well they're doing this like this so every now and then I'll do it this way instead."

He was talking about doing the same chi sao with the the Trad. Wing Chun player but in reverse. 

So it was the same but differant. I wouldn't say it's so simalar to Wing Chun, it just seems to have a "Chinese influence" as far as the translation from stick to empty hand goes.

What my Guro is giving me is a wealth of "options" to what I already have. Slightly differant, but totally adaptable. No technique works 100% the way we practice it but our muscle memory allows us to draw from our practice and use what is approriate when it is needed.


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## loki09789 (Sep 23, 2004)

Some JKD people would probably have both WC and FMA in their training regiment if they are coming through the Inosanto influence I think.

The little that I have had a chance to do of WC was really interesting.  It does compliment the FMA stuff somewhat, but just like "Karate" there are styles and schools of FMA that probably don't blend well with a WC style.

Balintawak and Serada seem to work well with it from what I have seen.  Some of the Hubab/Lubab elements are fairly similar to WC "Chi Sao" drill applications I have seen.


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## Flatlander (Sep 23, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Of course center line theory is in all martial arts among other things. I did not mean that FMA does not use center line, just that in some cases, the emphasis is not always the same as in WC.In WC, centerline is a primary (some would say dominating) theory used (correct me if I am wrong). In FMA it is used and is important but it isn't the overriding principle of FMA. Although WC does use weapons like butterfly swords and staff, weapon use is not to the extent of FMA. Through the weapon use other principles such as "defanging the snake" are also used. Now a WC person may use his butterfly swords to cut an opponents limbs but its not stessed as much as it is in FMA. (just using this as one example). One could also say that through the use of double butterfly swords elements of siniwali also appear in WC but not to the extent of FMA. WC also focuses more on close range. I'm not saying one art is better than the other, just trying to state differences.


Just to add to this most excellent post, my understanding of the difference between the two as they relate to centerline are that Modern Arnis (the only FMA experience I have) acknowledges the centerline, but will yeild, blend, or simply evade that incoming force rather than meet it, whereas WC tends toward total centerline ownership.  As I understand it, WC was developed for use in narrow alleyway encounters that were prevailant in those times, and is primarily suited toward that type of specific application, hence the extreme value placed on centerline dominance.


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## Rocky (Sep 27, 2004)

Wing Chun Do has a lot of influence on Cuentada De Mano, since I studied WCD for about 10-12 years. Many of the Traping tech. are simular to FMA stuff


Rocky


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