# Light sticks for sparring



## arnisandyz (Jul 27, 2004)

We've been playing with different weight sticks while sparring, particularly lighter 1/2" or 3/8" diameter rattan. We have found with the lighter sticks you can go a little harder with less injury. We hate the feel of the padded sticks as it absorbs too much energy and we keep breaking them. Lighter sticks are also much faster, so its good for speeding up reflexes. However, something that we didn't think about until a couple whacks is that the smaller diameters have a whip-like action, (especially with abiniko or witik) that provides a nasty surface sting. does anybody else play with different diameters? If you use padded sticks and have never gone to unpadded rattan, you might want to give the "twigs" a try.


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## John J (Jul 27, 2004)

You are correct. The problem with "twigs" is that it can only sting your opponent rather than cause pain which obviously is very tolerable. The only way to solve that is to use sticks with greater weight/density. Afterall, you want your opponent to think after he's been hit. Of course there are people with great pain tolerance.    

When I was in Pananandata, we used to fight unarmored with 31" 7/8 diameter sticks. Although strikes were limited to the weapon hand/arm only, you acknowledged the strike because of the weight. Most of the padded sticks on the market are garbage because they fail in durability or simply flex too much. The only sticks that hold up and can hurt are the ones that the late PG Edgar Sulite used to sell.

If you want to benefit more in your sparring game, consider 3/4 diameter and up with less weight. Personally, I think people would respect a strike from a good padded stick over a lesser diameter and lesser weighted stick a.k.a. "twig". 

John


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## arnisandyz (Jul 27, 2004)

John J said:
			
		

> If you want to benefit more in your sparring game, consider 3/4 diameter and up with less weight. Personally, I think people would respect a strike from a good padded stick over a lesser diameter and lesser weighted stick a.k.a. "twig".
> 
> John



Yes, ideally a medium weight stick would sink in better but we started using the lighter sticks to initiate new people who have never sparred before, so they can get a feel of sparring without too much intimidation. I've never come across a "good padded stick" but would be willing to work it in if anybody can recommend a good brand. Doesn't Edgar Sulite's wife or other family member still make and sell the Lameco line of gear?

Also, Paul started a thread about the latigo and the lighter sticks would be a good way to simulate the feel of the stingray tail/riding crop type whip without risk of taking the skin off with the real ones.


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## Stick Dummy (Jul 27, 2004)

I've got a set of the polycarbonate H.I.T.S. sticks that have survived for over 4 years of various levels of stick training/combat - including true full contact fighting, wacking on welded steel mesh helmets.

 We played with the mini's a bit kinda theorizing maybe we could develop a Teacher Self Defense Curriculum substituting a rubber tipped rattan "twig" for the very familiar wood dowel pointers :erg:


  They are light, fast, and don't leave near the welts or divots of rattan. Only problem is they don't smell like burning rattan..................

You  know:

Wack! Wack!

Sniff? Sniff?

Yeah now we're cooking! :supcool:


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## bart (Jul 27, 2004)

Hey There,

One of my students picked up some padded sticks that we've been using for sparring. They are hollow pvc with foam insulation. They are extremely cheap and though they leave a welt, they are hardly a real stick. I like using them to get my guys to spar without other protective equipment. Just the helmet or goggles and a cup. It also lets them work on hitting extremities that wouldn't do so well with an actual hit, like the shins. It hurts enough to keep them "honest", but it doesn't destroy their bodies, well except in one instance where a "cupless" training partner got it in the 'nads. But even then he made use of the situation to "train through the pain" as he kept on sparring until the match was up. 

Just like an exercise machine that really focuses your energy on a particular part of your body, using different sticks with varying physical properties and employing various sparring environments allows you to  train really specific skills. As long as you aren't lazy in how you train, mentally speaking, you can keep a good idea of what's got more "reality" to it than something else. Besides, you never know when the only stick you'll have around might be that thin.


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## arnisandyz (Jul 27, 2004)

bart said:
			
		

> Hey There,
> 
> Just like an exercise machine that really focuses your energy on a particular part of your body, using different sticks with varying physical properties and employing various sparring environments allows you to  train really specific skills. As long as you aren't lazy in how you train, mentally speaking, you can keep a good idea of what's got more "reality" to it than something else. Besides, you never know when the only stick you'll have around might be that thin.



Good deal!  Sometimes its cool to mismatch sticks, twig vs a heavier stick to see if the twig can use the speed, flexibility advantage or if the "heavy" realizes he can bully the twig. You will definately focus on different techniques depending on what your holding. More passing, parrying with the twig, more assertive with the heavy. Haven't done this yet, but I might pair a couple guys off not telling them they have different weight sticks and let them "work it out".


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 27, 2004)

Personally I like the bigger diameter sticks. Some of it has to do with fit with my hand, and not bouncing around when I impact something or someone. I also like the extra weight for the over all work out effect, and control training. Then when you pick up somethign a little lighter the feel is just that light and smooth.

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Jul 28, 2004)

Just a quick reply...

There are clear stylistic differences between a "twig" and a "log."

I don't mind sparring with either, but because of my background, I prefer logs.

 :ultracool


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## arnisandyz (Jul 28, 2004)

Along the same line as light whippy sticks, when I was a kid (8-9) my cousins and  I would fight with sections of hotwheels track, the plastic track that you would connect together for the little cars to roll on, which pretty much acted as a short whip. To be young again....


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## Feisty Mouse (Jul 28, 2004)

> They are light, fast, and don't leave near the welts or divots of rattan. Only problem is they don't smell like burning rattan..................


 Love that smell.


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## Cruentus (Jul 28, 2004)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> Along the same line as light whippy sticks, when I was a kid (8-9) my cousins and  I would fight with sections of hotwheels track, the plastic track that you would connect together for the little cars to roll on, which pretty much acted as a short whip. To be young again....



Dude...I remember doing that!  :whip:  :rofl:


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## GAB (Aug 19, 2004)

Hi I just saw this thought I would put in a few thoughts.

I don't think 1/2 or 3/8 is considered a twig. Not in my hand anyhow. 
Have you used the whip with out the end piece they are about 1/4 of an inch but with the extended reach and extra velocity, are very rough on the bod. 

I dont think the term "twigs" is correct in this conversation.

If you are using without padding,or appropriate protection, you are doing a disservice to your student.
In my opinion anyway...Regards, Gary


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## arnisandyz (Aug 19, 2004)

GAB said:
			
		

> Hi I just saw this thought I would put in a few thoughts.
> 
> I dont think the term "twigs" is correct in this conversation.
> 
> ...



In regards to the term "twig". In my eyes I see it referring to a light flexible, quick stick. Like the piece of Bamboo Bruce Lee used in Game of Death vs Guro Dan. Don't take the term too literally. We also refer to a heavy stick as a "log",  of course its not literally a log!, but a thicker heavier, denser stick. 

why is it a disservice to a student if you go light stick no padding?  It is simply a level of training.  If you get too use to going ALL out padded up ALL the time you tend to loose the appriciation of what a good hand shot will do. There is  such a thing as "control" especially when your training new people that have never fought before with minimal gear. Yes, you COULD do some good damage with a twig, but why would you want to do that to your training partners?  "Here, put all your safety gear on because  i can't control myself once I get swinging"


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## Cruentus (Aug 19, 2004)

Of course, none of you have seen the "Logs" that Rich "The Giant" Parsons uses... or the sound of him yelling, "FIRE BAAAD!" when that burning smell occurs during sinawali's...  :roflmao:  :roflmao:


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## loki09789 (Aug 19, 2004)

Bart,

Nice point about minimal padding/protection and keeping people "honest."  I used/use similiar padded sticks for free from stuff as well.  With senior and well trusted training partners (more for the "sue" factor than the bodily risk) we have used them without helmets or hand protection as well.  We limited the targeting to shoulders and lower for power shots to avoid eye damage or ear popping, but everything else is fair game.

Weapon/weaponless sparring can become it's own 'thing' if people start preparing specifically for it instead of using it to prepare for self defense.  That is when the transition from "reality" to "sport" can take place.  I say they both have a legitimate training use, but I tend to stick to the "reality prep."

Same was true for shooting.  Back when TGace and I were both in the MP's and on our unit's shooting team, we competed with issue weapons - sometimes knowing that there would be others with 'tricked' gear or weapons who would beat us on the range would not be able to make that specialized holster or weapon modification work on the street...

Train like you fight, fight like you train.



			
				bart said:
			
		

> Hey There,
> 
> One of my students picked up some padded sticks that we've been using for sparring. They are hollow pvc with foam insulation. They are extremely cheap and though they leave a welt, they are hardly a real stick. I like using them to get my guys to spar without other protective equipment. Just the helmet or goggles and a cup. It also lets them work on hitting extremities that wouldn't do so well with an actual hit, like the shins. It hurts enough to keep them "honest", but it doesn't destroy their bodies, well except in one instance where a "cupless" training partner got it in the 'nads. But even then he made use of the situation to "train through the pain" as he kept on sparring until the match was up.
> 
> Just like an exercise machine that really focuses your energy on a particular part of your body, using different sticks with varying physical properties and employing various sparring environments allows you to train really specific skills. As long as you aren't lazy in how you train, mentally speaking, you can keep a good idea of what's got more "reality" to it than something else. Besides, you never know when the only stick you'll have around might be that thin.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 19, 2004)

Tulisan said:
			
		

> Of course, none of you have seen the "Logs" that Rich "The Giant" Parsons uses... or the sound of him yelling, "FIRE BAAAD!" when that burning smell occurs during sinawali's...  :roflmao:  :roflmao:



I do like the larger stick as I mentioned, and I also enjoy the smell of rattan as it is heated up from impact. 

:asian:


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## Stick Dummy (Aug 20, 2004)

Rich,

  You mean "Buffalo Killers"????????
artyon: 
Yeah Baby!!  Yeeeah!


I'm 50/50 with "adequate" protection 
- too little you get hurt -
 too much padding with weapon/ stick sparring and it becomes waaaaaaay too McDojo'ish 
:barf:
 and the folks tend whine with even light hits - heavens forbid somebody will REALLY hit you hard on the street.............

  The FMA/IMA school I attend uses rattan/Lacrosse Gloves/safety glasses for distance sparring/ drills, or welded steel mesh helmets for more hmmmmm  enlightening activities. :erg:

Pain is a good instructor aid , and reinforces proper techniques. and believe me we're old friends the two of us.


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## Cruentus (Aug 20, 2004)

Stick Dummy said:
			
		

> Rich,
> 
> You mean "Buffalo Killers"????????
> artyon:
> ...



Lately we have been calling Rich "Tatanka!" A little "Dances with wolves" reference for you guys.  :ultracool  So...one needs "Buffalo Killers" against the Giant (and impecable timing, but that's another issue...)


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## Logan Delizo (Mar 12, 2005)

arnisandyz said:
			
		

> I've never come across a "good padded stick" but would be willing to work it in if anybody can recommend a good brand.


 I'm not sure if your still looking for a good padded stick, if so check out these guys. http://www.smakstiks.com Their sticks are pretty stiff but still safe to use. Although you definitly will respect the hit, I know first hand. Check out their video clips and you'll see what I mean.

   Respects,

   Logan Delizo


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## irish (Mar 13, 2005)

Logan Delizo said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if your still looking for a good padded stick, if so check out these guys. http://www.smakstiks.com
> 
> My school started using Smakstiks this past fall, and we have all been impressed by them - especially in how much they feel like a stick when you swing them. The padded punyos are also really awesome - I would definitely highly recommend smaks.


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## Feisty Mouse (Mar 13, 2005)

I do have to say that when beginning stick sparring, it was a relief to use pretty cushy padded sticks.  Even really "tough guy" folks seemed to get leery of being around a stick waving in the air.

For those of us still "new to the game", the padded sticks allow you to think a bit more about what you are trying to do, not the fact that you might be clubbed by someone with a "treetrunk".


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## Rich Parsons (Mar 14, 2005)

Feisty Mouse said:
			
		

> I do have to say that when beginning stick sparring, it was a relief to use pretty cushy padded sticks.  Even really "tough guy" folks seemed to get leery of being around a stick waving in the air.
> 
> For those of us still "new to the game", the padded sticks allow you to think a bit more about what you are trying to do, not the fact that you might be clubbed by someone with a "treetrunk".



FM,

Has HHJH been talking to you about the sticks I brought to Virginia/DC again? I told him there were just the normal every day carry, and not anything over size, as the ones Paul J has and uses sometimes. 


Yes, Padded sticks are good for testing and working, and understanding. I recommend them and they are fun. I have experience with ActionFlex only, but, would like to try the SmakStick as well as I think they look just as good.

Peace
:asian:


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 15, 2005)

I will definately have to vouch for Rich using giant sized 
sticks! Then again Rich is giant sized so the sticks are
a perfect match!

I take the approach with my students that I like them to 
gain confidence and technique. So we start out using the
action flex padded sticks when sparring. Once they achieve
a certain degree of proficiency we move to W.E.K.A.F 
equipment and light rattan sticks. As the student improves
we move to a medium sized stick and start pairing down
the protective equipment until all they eventually have is
a fencing helmet, light gloves, elbow and knee protectors,
cup and stick. This approach eases people in effectively
and they do not get beaten unmercifully right off the bat!
Having said all of that I take the approach of someone 
training for survival and therefore we do not spar every
class but more on occasion to develop that indomitable
spirit. The rest of the time is spent on polishing our
technique! This approach seems to work real well and 
people ease into the hard core approach at an appropriate
pace!

For regular training though nothing beats good rattan
with the skins on them and slightly larger in size!

Brian R. VanCise


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