# Self defense do and don'ts



## terryl965 (Feb 14, 2008)

This thread is dedicated to what can and what cannot be done while defending yourself?

Like here in Texas you can knock someone down in the act of SD but if you hit them while they are on the ground you can be convicted of assault and you may become the aggressor. What other things are in this relm.


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## thardey (Feb 14, 2008)

In Oregon, you are expected to retreat (if safe) to a building or car. Once in that "castle," you can defend yourself if the aggressor is still attacking.


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## theletch1 (Feb 14, 2008)

Here in Virginia stomping someone with bare feet does not carry as much of a penalty as doing so with shoes on.  Shoes takes it to aggravated assault.


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## searcher (Feb 14, 2008)

With the recent passing of our CCH law here in Kansas I found out that, even if you don't draw your weapon and you are in an altercation, it is considered an armed encounter. 

Also, if someone enters your home and they are "just taking your stuff" you are not allowed to take armed action against them.


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## still learning (Feb 14, 2008)

Hello, From what I understand in Hawaii? ...if you are defending yourself and break the attacker bones? (fingers, elbows, or any joints or place on there body?)

You could be responsible of loss of work times, medical bills, and pain of the other person (the attacker or bad guys).

They say if you are gonna break something the little finger is the cheapest and thumb will cost you alot more!

Here we go again? ...the bad guys have the law on their side 60% for them ,30% percent  for us...and lawyers 76% for them to use against us....does that equal to 100%?

Yes just as I thought? ....laws weight more the bad guys....?

Most bad guys who attacks you? ...most likely being in and out of prison so many times.....rapist, preditors,muggers,robbers,thiefs,drugs addicts,murders,.....

Many times a person past cannot be use in the court of law? ....because their crimes have NOTHING to do we you or your situtions? ..well sometimes? especially if they serve there time?   (parole is a get of Jail card free).

 ( parole boards are told many times...they need more rooms for the incoming...so Please let those prisoners out before there time?)

ROTATIONS:  ..In goes the bad....the bad goes out (more experience)...and get back in again and again and again.....LUCKY THEM!

Cost per prisoner is about $34,000 yearly cost and going up too!  YOU TAX DOLLARS provides food, housing, clothing, medical, even dental!

Better to stuggle and be a good person.....than live that kind of life!

Aloha ( struggling)


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## KenpoTex (Feb 14, 2008)

Might I suggest that if you're going to provide information (for example: "it's assault if you hit them once they're on the ground," or "it's aggravated assault if you kick them with shoes as opposed to bare feet") that you also provide a link to your specific state-statute that discusses the information.  In this manner, we can [to an extent] avoid communicating any incorrect or misleading information.

just because "a cop told me" or "my instructor told me" doesn't make it factual.

(note: I'm not accusing anybody of providing bad information, I just think that if you are providing the info, you should be able to back it up with a source.)


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## terryl965 (Feb 14, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Might I suggest that if you're going to provide information (for example: "it's assault if you hit them once they're on the ground," or "it's aggravated assault if you kick them with shoes as opposed to bare feet") that you also provide a link to your specific state-statute that discusses the information. In this manner, we can [to an extent] avoid communicating any incorrect or misleading information.
> 
> just because "a cop told me" or "my instructor told me" doesn't make it factual.
> 
> (note: I'm not accusing anybody of providing bad information, I just think that if you are providing the info, you should be able to back it up with a source.)


 
You are correct and I will provude you with the link as soon as I can find it again, I know it is in the law about you becoming the aggressor if you cantinue to beat someone when they are down.


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## MBuzzy (Feb 14, 2008)

I don't have a specific reference other than a lengthy discussion with a lawyer who has dealt with these cases, but I recently found out that in some cases, you can be punished more harshly for stangling than you can for shooting someone.

The circumstances have to be right....but basically, if you only fire one shot and can claim is as a "crime of passion," you can get off much lighter.  Whereas, if you strangle someone, to unconsciousness or death, it carries a much heavier punishment.  You almost cannot get out of a 1st degree murder charge, because 1) it takes some knowledge to properly strangle someone and 2) it takes a lot of TIME.  It takes a split second to pull a trigger, but it takes over 2 minutes to kill someone from strangling.  If you cut off blood AND oxygen, it takes much less time, but then the skill part comes in.  She had also seen instances where military or martial arts training has counted against someone in a self defense/assault situation.

Like I said, no reference, but some food for though.


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## still learning (Feb 15, 2008)

Hello, Many of things stated here is generalizations.  Most of know LAWS in every state will vary.

The circumstantial evidence and the situtions will vary....this is were OUR friends the "lawyers" can help or hurt us!

Best to use your self-defense on other planet?

Aloha,


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## chinto (Feb 16, 2008)

in Oregon if they enter your home they have no rights!! That does include the right to life!!    if they are engaged in burglary or arson, then deadly force is justified by black letter law.  but I would say use minimum force if you do not feel that your life or that of  some one else is in danger.  if that happens .. go for broke and take the bastard/  ***** out!! .. as far as I know  to preserve a life from unlawful taking by an attacker,  it is justifiable to take the attackers life.  

but I would suggest you check with a lawyer first to make sure.


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## LawDog (Feb 16, 2008)

1 for the most part you cannot use deadly force unless you are going to receive serious bodily harm and / or your attacker is using lethal force.
2 When your attacker yeilds or otherwise cannot defend himself, except when using a suppression technique, your attack must stop,
3 using indirect vison, you should keep a watchful eye on any by-standers, they have been known to jump in and take a heroic swing at the person winning,
4 never ever state,"I've got a gun". 
A) you have just threatened your attacker and have told any by-standers that you have, and will use, a weapon. If your attacker has no weapon then maybe he can be justified in using a high level of force on you,
B) if your attacker had a weapon on his person and was not using it at that time then he probably will after your statement,
C) most real bad guys know the if you state that you are armed then you probably would not us it because you are to scared to do so,
5 if you decide to run make sure that, you are physically able to do so, run to an occupied commercial store and if he has a gun it will be very hard to outrun the bullet,
6 unless there is a specific reason to do so don't plead for your life. Some sicko's get off on this, it is a power trip for them,
7 Most important, make sure that whatever you do, you and who ever make it home safe and unharmed.
:asian:


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## HelloKitty (Feb 17, 2008)

thardey said:


> In Oregon, you are expected to retreat (if safe) to a building or car. Once in that "castle," you can defend yourself if the aggressor is still attacking.


 

And, if the guy has a gun, you are a dead but law-obedient man...?

Argh, sometimes the "spirit" of the laws finishes damaging more than helping people when they need to defend themselves.


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## geezer (Feb 17, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> This thread is dedicated to what can and what cannot be done while defending yourself? Like here in Texas you can knock someone down in the act of SD but if you hit them while they are on the ground you can be convicted of assault and you may become the aggressor. What other things are in this relm.



Don't live in a culture of fear. And, don't carry weapons in your car--especially martial arts weapons like nunchakus, tonfas, sais, collapsable batons and so on.

Do think positively and pro-actively. Avoid dangerous situations, rough and rowdy scenes, biker bars and back alleys. Be nice to jerks on the highways and avoid road rage.

Do take up civilized, non martial sports and hobbies, like softball and auto mechanics or even blacksmithing--that's fun.

Do carry sports/hobby equipment in your car. A basebal bat, large wrench, screwdriver or ball-peen hammer, Especiallly the long handled ones with small heads.

Don't jump out of your car and beat someone with a hammer when you can panic and drive over them, then stop and call 911.

Do get a lawyer before you say anything, and follow his or her advice.

Do stick to your story, even under oath_...and good luck!_


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## still learning (Feb 17, 2008)

Hello, The funny part here is? ....What you would do or wouldn't do or what the laws saids you can or cannot do?

WILL BE DIFFERNENT WHEN IT HAPPENS TO YOU? ...AT A VERY EXPECTED TIME AT HOME!

With the inknown,adrenline fears,heart pounding, it dark,lonely,how many? and are they arm?

It is easy to say what you would do or shouldn't do...like most car accidents...happens unexpectedly and quickly...

Aloha ( do react....do call 911 .....escape when possible...and if need to? ..FIGHT BACK...there maybe NO tomorrow...)


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## searcher (Feb 17, 2008)

I don't have a link for my first post, but in order to use your firearm to defend yourself, you must have risk for "death or permanent bodily harm."    That comes straight from the KSAG and is in every CCH/Defensive Shooting Class here in KS.


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## blackxpress (Feb 17, 2008)

I don't really know what the law is here in Ohio and, quite frankly, don't care.  If I ever have to use my MA training in a self defense situation Ohio law is going to be the last thing on my mind.  If I'm able to put the bad guy on the ground I'm going to follow my training and finish him off.  If the authorities have a problem with that I'll deal with it later.  As the old saying goes, better to be convicted by 12 than buried by 6.


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## jks9199 (Feb 17, 2008)

blackxpress said:


> I don't really know what the law is here in Ohio and, quite frankly, don't care.  If I ever have to use my MA training in a self defense situation Ohio law is going to be the last thing on my mind.  If I'm able to put the bad guy on the ground I'm going to follow my training and finish him off.  If the authorities have a problem with that I'll deal with it later.  As the old saying goes, better to be convicted by 12 than buried by 6.


And, if you don't have a basic understanding of the laws (both statutory and court decisions) regarding use of force and self defense, you most assuredly will find yourself tried, very likely both in civil and criminal courts.  

The line about being tried by 12 instead of carried by 6 sounds great... until you're actually facing the situation, and realizing that even to defend a totally justified use of force is going to cost your life savings, and require you to mortgage your house.  Or -- finding out that you were OK in criminal court, but now have to hand over your life savings, and a good chunk of every paycheck you receive for the rest of your life thanks to civil findings.  

The time to learn the rules of use of force is BEFORE you need them.


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## KenpoTex (Feb 18, 2008)

blackxpress said:


> If I'm able to put the bad guy on the ground I'm going to follow my training and finish him off. If the authorities have a problem with that I'll deal with it later. As the old saying goes, better to be convicted by 12 than buried by 6.


 
Have fun in the prison showers...


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## Yari (Feb 18, 2008)

In Denmark the law says not to use more force than necessary. But it's not really the law that counts, but how they've been judged in the past(precendance I thinks it called).

So what it really boils down too is the force is defined on two parameters: 1) The attackers ability to enflict something harmful on you: both the present moment and the earlier reactions/doings 2) How afraid are you and can you document that you used the correct amount of force.

And then theres alot of maybes and what if's and such.

Anything after an attack(a punch) is consired retribute (I think it'scalled), and is considered an attack as itself, if you can't prove otherwise.

All in all our law puts you in the position to wait until something happens, until otherwise proven differently.


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## searcher (Feb 18, 2008)

kenpotex said:


> Have fun in the prison showers...




Ditto!!


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