# First year training problems



## tshadowchaser (Jan 25, 2015)

In your first year what have you found hard to do?  Have you found a way to make this task easier or have you learned ways to do it better


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> In your first year what have you found hard to do?  Have you found a way to make this task easier or have you learned ways to do it better



Great qustion. When I first learned to box, I always kept dropping the left elbow. The answer I kept taking shots until I learned to keep tight. That is was a right proverbial at the time


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## Tez3 (Jan 25, 2015)

Peering back into my dim and distant past lol I remember my first year mainly as thinking why on earth I'd got myself into this. There seemed to be so many things I couldn't do, couldn't understand and I was very keen but clumsy at sparring. After the first grading though things started falling into place and I started my real love affair with martial arts. The thing I learnt I think was not to give up.


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Peering back into my dim and distant past lol I remember my first year mainly as thinking why on earth I'd got myself into this. There seemed to be so many things I couldn't do, couldn't understand and I was very keen but clumsy at sparring. After the first grading though things started falling into place and I started my real love affair with martial arts. The thing I learnt I think was not to give up.



What was Queen Victoria like?  _"The thing I learnt I think was not to give up" _Yes so easy to do.


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## Tez3 (Jan 25, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> What was Queen Victoria like?  _"The thing I learnt I think was not to give up" _Yes so easy to do.




You are going to get a slap across the back of the legs my boy! If I'd been around in Queen Vic's time I would have been doing Bartitsu or Judo! The female pioneers in martial arts deserve a lot more credit than they get though. To be honest they are inspiring, if they didn't give up when it was far more difficult than I had it, I couldn't very well. It was the doing different things with legs and arms plus defending yourself plus moving that got me at first, I think it was just sheer hours put in that got me over that problem. It does give you more insight though when teaching if things are difficult for you when you started, you work out ways to do things. Someone to whom everything comes easily will find I think harder to teach a student who doesn't quite 'get it' easily.


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> You are going to get a slap across the back of the legs my boy! If I'd been around in Queen Vic's time I would have been doing Bartitsu or Judo! The female pioneers in martial arts deserve a lot more credit than they get though. To be honest they are inspiring, if they didn't give up when it was far more difficult than I had it, I couldn't very well. It was the doing different things with legs and arms plus defending yourself plus moving that got me at first, I think it was just sheer hours put in that got me over that problem. It does give you more insight though when teaching if things are difficult for you when you started, you work out ways to do things. *Someone to whom everything comes easily will find I think harder to teach a student who doesn't quite 'get it' easily*.



That would not surprise me, the pioneers should always get credit, irrespective of sex. Agree on the latter.


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## jks9199 (Jan 25, 2015)

While the early female martial arts pioneers in the West are certainly worthy of discussion, maybe even a thread of their own, somehow, I'm having trouble seeing how they relate to the original topic.  Perhaps we can return to the topic of what challenges students face in their first year of training...


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## Tez3 (Jan 25, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> While the early female martial arts pioneers in the West are certainly worthy of discussion, maybe even a thread of their own, somehow, I'm having trouble seeing how they relate to the original topic.  Perhaps we can return to the topic of what challenges students face in their first year of training...




I believe I said why they were relevant...that they were  a source of inspiration to me when I found training hard and wanted to give up, that they didn't helped me carry on and many years later I am grateful for that inspiration. I'm saddened that my inspiration is considered nothing more than 'being off topic'. Perhaps a beginner having difficulties could also find inspiration to carry on as I did regardless of how little is thought of that inspiration.


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> While the early female martial arts pioneers in the West are certainly worthy of discussion, maybe even a thread of their own, somehow, I'm having trouble seeing how they relate to the original topic.  Perhaps we can return to the topic of what challenges students face in their first year of training...



Apologies to all, I did start the OFT. Back to the OP, I am going to keep a dairy of my Wing Chun Journey. Having just thought of it, I will summarize the first batch of lessons. But perhaps I can contribute a Guinea Pig outlook to the thread. TS, would this be acceptable?


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> I believe I said why they were relevant...that they were  a source of inspiration to me when I found training hard and wanted to give up, that they didn't helped me carry on and many years later I am grateful for that inspiration. I'm saddened that my inspiration is considered nothing more than 'being off topic'. Perhaps a beginner having difficulties could also find inspiration to carry on as I did regardless of how little is thought of that inspiration.



Hey, don't worry about it, I believe in the message


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 25, 2015)

Having a weekly look at the problem you encounter and how they are eventually overcome would be nice


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 25, 2015)

my first year of training in my 2nd art was difficult.  Being only used to doing snap kicks I had to learn to do a more pushing type of kick using my thigh muscles more than just flexing and extending from  my knee.
That and the fact that my 2nd system used the hands so much more than the feet ( even if it was a foot fighting system)
I got over the hands thing after a very short while the 1st issue took much longer because it was a whole new mind set and muscle memory


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> Having a weekly look at the problem you encounter and how they are eventually overcome would be nice



Okay no worries. I will start my diary on Tuesday. I guess at some point I would have to put on some vids.


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> my first year of training in my 2nd art was difficult. Being only used to doing snap kicks I had to learn to do a more pushing type of kick using my thigh muscles more than just flexing and extending from my knee.



So you changed systems. A new art?


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 25, 2015)

started in MDKTKD switch to the Lagarejos system of Sikaran after getting my black belt in MDKTKD is 18 months.  I moved 150 miles away at that time for a new job.
In the TKD system my main problem the first year was putting up with 3 girls in class ages 6, 8, and 10 years old.  What can I say kids will be kids especially when it is their uncles class


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## Transk53 (Jan 25, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> started in MDKTKD switch to the Lagarejos system of Sikaran after getting my black belt in MDKTKD is 18 months.  I moved 150 miles away at that time for a new job.
> In the TKD system my main problem the first year was putting up with 3 girls in class ages 6, 8, and 10 years old.  What can I say kids will be kids especially when it is their uncles class



*This*


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## tshadowchaser (Jan 25, 2015)

maybe from the same system originally remember I was studying in the early 70's.  The grandmaster I studied under at the time was based in Texas and his student that taught me had learned in the military before moving to my area.


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## kuniggety (Jan 26, 2015)

In BJJ, It was learning to relax. Everything was a struggle. I had to learn of when I was actually "in danger" and when I could just hang out and catch my breath which was actually most of the time. I'm still working on this but the first year was the roughest.


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## Transk53 (Jan 26, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> maybe from the same system originally remember I was studying in the early 70's.  The grandmaster I studied under at the time was based in Texas and his student that taught me had learned in the military before moving to my area.



That is one thing I have always wondered about. The military way. I imagine that even in the 70's, the training would not be different in what it consists of, and what was taught in the 30's and 40's. I imagine now that there is a very large MA influence on the military curriculum. And what with MA being so accessible now. I think it is right that Chuck Norris taught TSD while in service?


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## Flatfish (Jan 26, 2015)

Been training in TKD for a year now. My biggest challenges have been physical. I have never been flexible, not even as a kid when playing Judo. I had serious issues with hip movement but keeping at it and complementing the training with other exercises has helped although I am not nearly where I would like to be. 
The other difficulty is gassing during sparring. That one was frustrating because I was not exactly out of shape when starting. Sparring more, adding interval training and bag sessions has improved that somewhat.
Third issue is not having enough time to take more classes....but that is life.


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## kuniggety (Jan 26, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> That is one thing I have always wondered about. The military way. I imagine that even in the 70's, the training would not be different in what it consists of, and what was taught in the 30's and 40's. I imagine now that there is a very large MA influence on the military curriculum. And what with MA being so accessible now. I think it is right that Chuck Norris taught TSD while in service?



Both the US Marine Corps and Army have "combatives" programs that they teach but neither requires any real proficiency in the systems. Operators (Special Forces and SEALs) have a more thorough exposure but are, again, not expected to be experts. The programs are there though for those who are interested. I'm an Air Force guy and there is zero combatives taught to us. Various martial arts are very popular though among military members and you'll find people teaching at most bases and many military members in martial arts schools in the vicinity of a base.


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## Transk53 (Jan 26, 2015)

kuniggety said:


> Both the US Marine Corps and Army have "combatives" programs that they teach but neither requires any real proficiency in the systems. Operators (Special Forces and SEALs) have a more thorough exposure but are, again, not expected to be experts. The programs are there though for those who are interested. I'm an Air Force guy and there is zero combatives taught to us. Various martial arts are very popular though among military members and you'll find people teaching at most bases and many military members in martial arts schools in the vicinity of a base.



Ah now I know what people mean by using "combatives" Thanks for that  In some respects, I would have thought that MA would be more prevalent as standard, rather than a solider doing it as a hobby.


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## warriorArt (Jan 26, 2015)

In my first year, my biggest problem has been knee movement and initiating movement from the knees.  I seem to have grown into adulthood by being peg-legged and walking like Frankenstein.   Deep knee movement and moving "from the knees" is something that is taking a ton of practice,  and may take years to get used to.  It seems to be a bad habit rather than a strength or balance thing.

I am finding that it is something I am having to remind myself to check constantly in every kata or even just after moving to kamae.


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## Transk53 (Jan 26, 2015)

warriorArt said:


> In my first year, my biggest problem has been knee movement and initiating movement from the knees.  I seem to have grown into adulthood by being peg-legged and walking like Frankenstein.   Deep knee movement and moving "from the knees" is something that is taking a ton of practice,  and may take years to get used to.  It seems to be a bad habit rather than a strength or balance thing.
> 
> I am finding that it is something I am having to remind myself to check constantly in every kata or even just after moving to kamae.



Maybe, but how would you actually rate you're balance?


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## warriorArt (Jan 26, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Maybe, but how would you actually rate you're balance?



2 out of 10, 10 being a tightrope walker, 1 being your average American.


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## Transk53 (Jan 26, 2015)

warriorArt said:


> 2 out of 10, 10 being a tightrope walker, 1 being your average American.



Yeah sure. Hey American does not mean anything. I am clumsy by nature, but I improved my balance. My point is that don't dismiss other types of training!


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## kuniggety (Jan 26, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Ah now I know what people mean by using "combatives" Thanks for that  In some respects, I would have thought that MA would be more prevalent as standard, rather than a solider doing it as a hobby.


 
Their combatives programs are actually heavily influenced by the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu combatives program with some striking thrown in there for good measure.

Your average solider (and Marine), especially in modern day warfare, isn't hand to hand fighting anyone. Their combatives are there for a basic familiarization of "what to do in a situation like this" and a bit for fitness. Their training is better well spent on how to clear a room, how to shoot on M4 on the move, etc.


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## Transk53 (Jan 26, 2015)

M4, quite the legend. Okay so basically they suffer through technology. That sucks!


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## Cirdan (Jan 28, 2015)

I think I lost flexibility in my first year of training, I have learned to stretch properly since then


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## Transk53 (Jan 28, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> I think I lost flexibility in my first year of training, I have learned to stretch properly since then



Cool, any linkage of what you may follow. I am still struggling with side stretching


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## Cirdan (Jan 28, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Cool, any linkage of what you may follow. I am still struggling with side stretching



I don`t do anything fancy, just do dynamic stretches if possible, do it often and certainly more than 20 seconds each (3x1 minute maybe)


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## Transk53 (Jan 28, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> I don`t do anything fancy, just do dynamic stretches if possible, do it often and certainly more than 20 seconds each (3x1 minute maybe)



Do you do the Muay Thia style opening leg stretch going forward?


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## Cirdan (Jan 28, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Do you do the Muay Thia style opening leg stretch going forward?



I think you lost me, I don`t know the names of many stretches at all. Like this?





If so yes, but most often I will drop my rear knee to the floor and work from there.


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## Transk53 (Jan 28, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> I think you lost me, I don`t know the names of many stretches at all. Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah probably. The one that the MT fighters often seen doing in the ring. They bring their leg up and then manoeuvre the leg, knee height to the chest, outwards.


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## Cirdan (Jan 28, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Yeah probably. The one that the MT fighters often seen doing in the ring. They bring their leg up and then manoeuvre the leg, knee height to the chest, outwards.



That sounds more like a common warm up routine than actual stretching. You can also do it inwards from the outside naturally. Also, the movement doubles as practice for knee blocks (and knee strikes since "there are no blocks"  )


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## Transk53 (Jan 28, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> That sounds more like a common warm up routine than actual stretching. You can also do it inwards from the outside naturally. Also, the movement doubles as practice for knee blocks (and knee strikes since "there are no blocks"  )



Oh right had never thought of it that way. Mind you I try extend the legs sideways as much as possible. I am still doing the window ledge thing for sideways stretching. I find it on the floor a bit more difficult to force a stretch pose.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 3, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> In your first year what have you found hard to do?  Have you found a way to make this task easier or have you learned ways to do it better



In my first year of training in my primary style, Shito Ryu, I was at the young age of 12 and what I perhaps struggled the most with back then was katas. Since then I learned to enjoy katas much more. There is far more to katas than just going through movements, you're supposed to imagine you're fighting real opponents and once you get good at that katas become much more fun and exciting. That's why katas are often called meditation in motion. Once you've practiced them enough, instead of fussing over the technique you should just let the kata take itself and enjoy it!


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## crazydiamond (Feb 4, 2015)

Still in my first year. Stupid stuff - or basic stuff I have struggled with

1) Basic coordination of body movements - right, left, stances
2) Keep your hands up when punching, stop dropping your guard.
3) Breath darn-it - stop holding your breath
4) Relax - stop tensing up, or trying to hit hard - flow (be water).
5) Pacing yourself, you got an hour or hour and half  and your not 20 years old anymore.
6) Practice outside of class or forget it.


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## Buka (Feb 4, 2015)

Ahh, that first year. What I see the most in first year students is two distinct things. On one hand, you have folks who get a little overwhelmed with this new thing in their life. It seemed like a good idea, took some gumption to actually commit, sign up, put on that gi - which is so different from any other work out clothes they've ever had, if they've ever actually worked out before - and get on a floor with a bunch of strangers who do what's being done better than they can do. 

Then there's the physical contact. If it's a striking art, nobody is used to getting punched and kicked, especially in the face. Touching of the face is an intimate thing to most people, there's just not a lot of people in their life who ever touch their face. Especially people they really don't know. If it's presented properly, and the strangers they train with make it no big deal and are friendly, or at least not intimidating, they start to get used to it and they progress. But as they do, they are exposed to higher levels of expertise and the cycle usually repeats. It's not an easy transition.

If it's a grappling art, they are in a closer proximity to another person than they have ever been before other than with family, close friends or lovers. Except the other person is trying to dominate and/or submit them. And they are sweating in their face because rolling usually comes at the end of classes when everyone is already sweating. Their faces and necks are engulfed in a way they just aren't used to, there's pressure and weight applied to their chest and torso, and the other person is moving, moving, always moving and they just can't keep up. And other beginners are not relaxed, they're rushed and spastic, always trying to win, win, win. Again, it's not an easy transition from normal life.

On the other hand, people who are athletically gifted get all psyched up and run head first at it. It seems so much easier to them than to other beginners - this is what they're going to do FOREVER! Then that passes with the realization of how much work is ahead and how others, with just a little more experience will have none of their nonsense. What I find with most of these folks is a lack of patience. Once it isn't fun, games and easy - it isn't fun games and easy.

But what I also find is the students you really don't notice for a while. They just keep coming to class, day in and day out. Not particularly talented, not particularly untalented - just your average Joe. Until they're not.

That first year is a tough one. But if they can stick it out for five years or so, then they really have something they can use in life. Hopefully, anyway.


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## Tez3 (Feb 5, 2015)

PhotonGuy said:


> In my first year of training in my primary style, Shito Ryu, I was at the young age of 12 and what I perhaps struggled the most with back then was katas. Since then I learned to enjoy katas much more. There is far more to katas than just going through movements, you're supposed to imagine you're fighting real opponents and once you get good at that katas become much more fun and exciting. That's why katas are often called meditation in motion. Once you've practiced them enough, instead of fussing over the technique you should just let the kata take itself and enjoy it!




No, not really. You can use them like that but that's not what they are for.

Bunkai - Karate s forgotten 95 Iain Abernethy


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 5, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Yeah probably. The one that the MT fighters often seen doing in the ring. They bring their leg up and then manoeuvre the leg, knee height to the chest, outwards.



That's actually a part of the Ram Muay, a ritual dance/warm up that fighters perform before the fight begins. It's not really for stretching - more for mental focus and showing respect to their trainers.


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## Tony Dismukes (Feb 5, 2015)

My biggest issues during my initial years of training were probably the following:

1) Extreme lack of physical and mental toughness
2) General lack of coordination (even compared to most beginners)
3) The Dunning-Kruger effect. I was physically unaware enough that I couldn't even tell how bad I was.

It took me a lot longer than my first year to get past all of those.


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## PhotonGuy (Feb 5, 2015)

Buka said:


> Ahh, that first year. What I see the most in first year students is two distinct things. On one hand, you have folks who get a little overwhelmed with this new thing in their life. It seemed like a good idea, took some gumption to actually commit, sign up, put on that gi - which is so different from any other work out clothes they've ever had, if they've ever actually worked out before - and get on a floor with a bunch of strangers who do what's being done better than they can do.
> 
> Then there's the physical contact. If it's a striking art, nobody is used to getting punched and kicked, especially in the face. Touching of the face is an intimate thing to most people, there's just not a lot of people in their life who ever touch their face. Especially people they really don't know. If it's presented properly, and the strangers they train with make it no big deal and are friendly, or at least not intimidating, they start to get used to it and they progress. But as they do, they are exposed to higher levels of expertise and the cycle usually repeats. It's not an easy transition.
> 
> ...



Another thing I think you have to consider is the age of the person when they start. Lots of people start martial arts as children and lots of people finish as children. A child is not going to be as physically and as mentally developed as an adult. I started at the age of 12 which is somewhat young and I've stuck with it although I know theres many people who started younger than that and who finished younger than that. Also a person's athletic background, when I started I was already a competitive swimmer and I had been on my local swim team for years so that also makes a difference. But, from what I've seen in the martial arts world, lots if not most of the people who start martial arts are children and usually they finish within their first year of starting and move on to other stuff. There is a difference between a child starting their first year of MA training and an adult starting their first year of MA training.


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## donald1 (Feb 5, 2015)

some of the mistakes i made my first year were...

-low stances... wernt low enough i remember the instructor would yell lower stances!
-tight fists... gotta make tight fists! the instructor would hit your hand if it wasnt tight enough.
-and pushups needed improvement...
-also i got distracted a lot and occasionally would randomly zone out and forget what im doing... PS. dont get distracted when someone is demonstrating a roundhouse kick(luckily i was wearing a mouthguard so no damage  )


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## Transk53 (Feb 5, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> That's actually a part of the Ram Muay, a ritual dance/warm up that fighters perform before the fight begins. It's not really for stretching - more for mental focus and showing respect to their trainers.



Thanks for the information


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## EddieCyrax (Feb 10, 2015)

To breathe.   Seriously.  I had 20+ years experience in endurance type training prior to beginning my martial arts journey.  I ran and cycled countless miles.  I was in excellent physical condition.

All this said, I tired quickly.  All my previous training was based on controlled cyclical/systematic breathing.  The martial arts is high intensity for short intervals, and in the beginning you are worried about being hit.

Took quite some time at the beginning to learn how to breathe effectively and stay relaxed.


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## donald1 (Feb 10, 2015)

Cirdan said:


> I think you lost me, I don`t know the names of many stretches at all. Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


honestly i dont know what to call most stretches, when i give orders on which stretches at the begginning of classes i... sort of make up a name and they see what stretch im doing and... hopefully follow along


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## Tez3 (Feb 10, 2015)

donald1 said:


> honestly i dont know what to call most stretches, when i give orders on which stretches at the begginning of classes i... *sort of make up a name and they see what stretch im doing and... hopefully follow along*




I thought I was the only one who did that!


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## Danny T (Feb 10, 2015)

donald1 said:


> honestly i dont know what to call most stretches, when i give orders on which stretches at the begginning of classes i... sort of make up a name and they see what stretch im doing and... hopefully follow along


What you are showing is a Hip Flexor Stretch called the Lunge Stretch


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## Danny T (Feb 10, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> That's actually a part of the Ram Muay, a ritual dance/warm up that fighters perform before the fight begins. It's not really for stretching - more for mental focus and showing respect to their trainers.


Yeap; if your aren't stretched out and warmed up prior to entering the ring the Wai Kru isn't going to do much for you. It is far more ceremonial and respect driven than warming up.


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