# Woman fights off two attackers



## Ceicei (Jan 31, 2007)

Great story!  I'm glad she was able to fight back, but I do wish that she thought ahead to have someone else walk with her, and perhaps this situation wouldn't have happened.

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660191568,00.html

- Ceicei

P.S.  I hope that the myth of "don't fight back, you won't get hurt" will eventually be abolished.  I still hear this go around among some females, and even males who tell females that.  I have always been a believer it is better to fight back, whatever the odds.


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## KenpoTex (Jan 31, 2007)

Good for her...she made some mistakes but she didn't give up.


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## tellner (Jan 31, 2007)

When we taught women's self defense we always asked how many students had been taught "Never fight back. You'll just make him madder." Over fifteen years or so the fraction consistently dropped. The older and more socially conventional the student the more likely they were to have heard and believed that old lie.

Anecdotes, even ones as heartwarming as this, are not statistical evidence. Fortunately we have about thirty years of evidence. It all shows that earnest resistance works.


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## Carol (Jan 31, 2007)

Ceicei said:


> I hope that the myth of "don't fight back, you won't get hurt" will eventually be abolished.  I still hear this go around among some females, and even males who tell females that. I have always been a believer it is better to fight back, whatever the odds.


 
AMEN.  

I've run in to a few unsavory people on my way home from work at the wee hours of the morning.  I swear these guys WANT women to be all helpless and weak and scared.  They don't want anyone putting the hate on them.  They don't want anyone staring at them studying up their facial features.  They don't want anyone alert and with it.  They want to victimize and they want to get away with it.


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## tuturuhan (Jan 31, 2007)

Ladies,

On a train from London to Paris, I met a true Master...she was traveling with her 22 year old daughter.  They had been in europe showing her paintings and celebrating her daughter's graduation from nursing school.

As we were all getting on the train she smiled at my daughters.  I nodded to this woman as I noticed her interest in my kids.  She was in her early sixties, blond haired and a bit overweight.  I could see from her gait that she most certainly suffered from health problems.  But, from the twinkle in her eye and the smile she radiated, I knew there was something special about this woman.

As soon as we were situated in are seats, my wife pulled from her satchel schoolwork for the kids.  Though, we were on vacation, our "homeschooled kids" still had to do there work.  The woman, watched intently as the kids did their math problems.  

She then blurted out, "your children are unusally focused".  Few people can reckon the talents and abilities of people simply by the way they walk or move.  

I simply said, "thank you".  After all, my children are representations of the values and beliefs that I and my wife hold.

"I'm a teacher and I can tell you your children are quite bright", she continued.

"Oh really...I'm really interested in "educational techniques", I said as I looked forward to hearing her opinions.  Any person, place and situation is an opportunity to uncover truth.

"Well, do you mind if I switch seats and join you", she asked.  "Great...then I will share with you my years of research and education", she muttered under her breath.  I smiled to myself thinking this woman is quite confident...quite confident.

In the next three hours we scoped each other out, sparred a bit and then settled down into a mutual respect.  We knew that like-kind always attracts like-vibration even on a train to Paris.  

This true master was not a martial artist.  But, a master nonetheless.  I was to discover many things about her in that short 3 hours: a few doctorate degrees, a private educational consultant regarding brain research and educational technques, and the fact that she was a woman who had taught in the canadian prisons.

I would also learn that she was a woman whose gait may have been unhealthy, but a woman who walked quite comfortably in the power she possessed.  It is one of the tell-tale signs of a true master.  

As time unfolds, I'd like to tell you more about this true master.  I'd like to tell you about the man she defended herself against.  He is in prison now, in a wheelchair and with a broken spine.  I'd like to tell you about her days hunting from horseback, in the Canadian outback, exhiting her painting in Venice and getting into the mind of a psychopathic killer...but, then that's for another time.

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
Grandmaster Kamatuuran School of Kalijin


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## searcher (Jan 31, 2007)

Never give and never surrender.   Go until your body won't continue working.   I just wish she would have hurt them a little more than she did.


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## tellner (Jan 31, 2007)

Carol Kaur said:


> AMEN.
> 
> I've run in to a few unsavory people on my way home from work at the wee hours of the morning.  I swear these guys WANT women to be all helpless and weak and scared.  They don't want anyone putting the hate on them.  They don't want anyone staring at them studying up their facial features.  They don't want anyone alert and with it.  They want to victimize and they want to get away with it.



Eh? Of course that's what they want. They are trying to get what they are after with as little hassle and as low a cost as they possibly can. That's why they're criminals. The objective is your money or what's between your legs without earning the first or getting permission for the second, not a fight. When a certain school of feminist says that "traditional values" support rape that's why. If women are subservient, submissive and deferential towards men they are much easier to manage whether you're looking for an obedient wife who will obey without question or a compliant set of orifices who will give it up without causing a fuss.


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## tellner (Jan 31, 2007)

searcher said:


> Never give and never surrender.   Go until your body won't continue working.   I just wish she would have hurt them a little more than she did.



Mebbe. Rather, say that the person in the situation has the best idea of what is going on at that moment. I wouldn't want to say "You got hurt because you did this or didn't do that." There's a very real danger that that attitude will screw the survivor up as badly as the original attack when guilt and recriminations set in. The crime is the responsibility of the criminal. Whatever you're going to do, do it 100% to the absolute best of your ability. It could mean running, fighting, complying or something else entirely.


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## bluemtn (Jan 31, 2007)

tuturuhan said:


> ... As time unfolds, I'd like to tell you more about this true master. I'd like to tell you about the man she defended herself against. He is in prison now, in a wheelchair and with a broken spine. I'd like to tell you about her days hunting from horseback, in the Canadian outback, exhiting her painting in Venice and getting into the mind of a psychopathic killer...but, then that's for another time.
> 
> Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
> Grandmaster Kamatuuran School of Kalijin


 
Both are excellent examples for why you shouldn't just give in! There's nothing more I can say than those were awesome examples of very strong women who were not afraid to fight back. They let their will to live- if not just with dignity, but physically. Thank you Ceicei and tuturuhan for sharing both of those exellent examples. :asian:


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## marysson (Feb 1, 2007)

My mother in law was attacked in a hosptial parking lot.   The guy was caught after he had to go to the hospital to get the nails removed from his face which had gotten infected.  She had a few bruises but was otherwise fine.


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## Grenadier (Feb 1, 2007)

Good to hear that she came out relatively unharmed, and even better that she was not part of the "don't resist" crowd.  

This may be the old geezer in me (despite my age of 35), but I would like to say, that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure.  There are many ladies out there that can certainly fight, but this can be avoided on many occasions if they do not travel alone.  Strength in numbers, after all.  

If, on the other hand, despite your precautions, you are still forced into such a situation, then by all means, fight, and fight to the absolute best of your abilities.  Fight as if there were no tomorrow, because there might not be a tomorrow.  If it means adopting the same mentality that you would use to protect your own children from an attacker, then use it.  

Going back to the "don't resist" crowd, it's unfortunate that many security groups try to teach that theory.  The campus security folks here say "do not resist, give them what they want, and report the crime as soon as possible."


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## MA-Caver (Feb 1, 2007)

searcher said:


> Never give and never surrender.   Go until your body won't continue working.   I just wish she would have hurt them a little more than she did.


Oh I think she did... remember there's another little fragile thing in all males... it's called Pride! I'm sure she :btg: them there as well. :asian: kudos to the lady.


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## theletch1 (Feb 1, 2007)

tellner said:


> Eh? Of course that's what they want. They are trying to get what they are after with as little hassle and as low a cost as they possibly can. That's why they're criminals. The objective is your money or what's between your legs without earning the first or getting permission for the second, not a fight. When a certain school of feminist says that "traditional values" support rape that's why. If women are subservient, submissive and deferential towards men they are much easier to manage whether you're looking for an obedient wife who will obey without question or a compliant set of orifices who will give it up without causing a fuss.


My instructor has said on many occassions that criminals are looking for their next victim not their next challenge.  I firmly believe this.

I'm not sure I agree with the "traditional values" statement though.  I know several women that hold dearly to those particular values but would rip your heart out and show it to you if the need arose.  Thing about those traditional values is that there are rules for BOTH sides of the gender gap and both sides can and do have certain expectations of what is acceptable behavior for the other.  I just don't believe that a woman like my grandmother would lie down and be raped simply because she felt that my grandfather was the man of the house.  She was a tough woman and no ones victim.


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## tellner (Feb 1, 2007)

theletch, that's why I said it was a certain sort of feminist. I don't agree with the whole package, but there's at least a nugget of truth in there. A system of values with rigidly defined roles for men and women will reward those who stay within them and punish those who stray. If the values include female subservience and compliance it will provide a mechanism which will make crimes against women, particularly ones which are right down that divide easier.


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