# I finally understand the block.



## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

Tonight's sparring class was full on injuries.  I almost jammed my fingers from an incorrect block, the other instructor was elbowed in the eye.  One of our younger students fell hard to the floor after having her kicks grabbed.  Another student was kicked in the hip and now has an injured hip.  Another student was punched in the eye.  I've never seen so many injuries in one night.  But the night had a happy ending.

I finally decoded and understand this technique.  Based on what I discovered tonight, I now have a practical use for this technique.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 15, 2016)

This topic should actually be in the General Martial Arts section.  I didn't realize I clicked the self defense section.


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## KangTsai (Dec 16, 2016)

Describe? I would predict that it's mainly a kick counter.


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## Gerry Seymour (Dec 16, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Tonight's sparring class was full on injuries.  I almost jammed my fingers from an incorrect block, the other instructor was elbowed in the eye.  One of our younger students fell hard to the floor after having her kicks grabbed.  Another student was kicked in the hip and now has an injured hip.  Another student was punched in the eye.  I've never seen so many injuries in one night.  But the night had a happy ending.
> 
> I finally decoded and understand this technique.  Based on what I discovered tonight, I now have a practical use for this technique.


Expound, please.

I teach a shorter version of this (and a couple of others I borrowed from Tang Soo Do many years ago and adapted to NGA) as early blocks to new students, to give them some "hard" blocks to use until their movement makes them less necessary.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 16, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Describe? I would predict that it's mainly a kick counter.


I'm working on an article for this one.  It takes quite a bit of explaining through words to describe.   I'll make the video of it on Saturday (tomorrow in the U.S) and I'll have the article posted on the school website by Monday next week at the latest. Then you can try this same technique on your students or classmates.  I will show it from a Karate and TKD application so I don't get in trouble with me showing it from a Jow Ga application. That way it will make sense to what you practice

After I make the video, you should be able to pull this technique off with no problem


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 16, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> I finally decoded and understand this technique.  Based on what I discovered tonight, I now have a practical use for this technique.



There are several....
There's the obvious - moving a strike to the outside, or blocking a kick.
The chamber is itself a crossbody block. 
The "block" is a strike.
The block can be continued on in a circle, trapping a punching arm.
The "non" blocking arm is also a cross body block.
Etc.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 16, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> There are several....
> There's the obvious - moving a strike to the outside, or blocking a kick.
> The chamber is itself a crossbody block.
> The "block" is a strike.
> ...


All of these are defensive applications mine was an offensive application.. I'm assuming that by strike, someone punches and you punish their arm


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## Dirty Dog (Dec 16, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> All of these are defensive applications mine was an offensive application.. I'm assuming that by strike, someone punches and you punish their arm



I believe that every block should punish whatever they're using to strike you. But when I say a strike, I mean an offensive move. In this case, it's likely to be a strike to their head or neck.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 16, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> But when I say a strike, I mean an offensive move. In this case, it's likely to be a strike to their head or neck.


Nope it's not that one.  We have a strike that does the same thing as what you are describing.  In Jow Ga there are actually two strikes that use a similar arm position.  One is arm traveling outside inward and the other inward outward.   You also have the same philosophy in regards to blocks that Jow Ga does.  "If you are going to block, you might as well make it painful for the attacker"  I actually like that perspective because I've had it happen to me.  It literally caused me to stop punching.  It also changed the purpose of my punching from trying to hit my target to trying not to get hit by the block.  If I'm focused on trying not to get hit by the block then I'm not focusing on hitting the target.  That was back during the day where I only knew jabs and crosses.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Uke means block and also recieve. Chudan uke, seiken tsuki is middle body block, staight punch. It does not have to be a hard or bang block and in many circumstances it should not be.

I don't care for the middle body block shown in the first video. Too much time required to deliver it, and a bone block, ouch.

The key to understanding blocks is to understand they're often not blocks at all. They have the effect of a block in that they negate an attack, but they don't have to be force on force strikes.


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## Bill Mattocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> There are several....
> There's the obvious - moving a strike to the outside, or blocking a kick.
> The chamber is itself a crossbody block.
> The "block" is a strike.
> ...



Agreed and based on tai sabaki, the moves you described can be further modified by moving in, out, to the side, etc. Rather than trying to stop or attack the incoming energy, I'd generally prefer to avoid it, redirect it, or move with it. I'm big and can absorb some incoming power, but I'd prefer not to, and some ppl are bigger than I am.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 17, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The key to understanding blocks is to understand they're often not blocks at all.


And this is where the learning begins. Often these these techniques are taught as blocks and then when people try to use them, it doesn't work as well as the application demonstration for the technique.  I'm not sure how many of you have been kicked in the arm by someone's shin bone, but I've been kicked enough (once really bad) where the thought of me putting my arm up like the first video is a bad idea for me.  Shin beats forearm.  



Bill Mattocks said:


> They have the effect of a block in that they negate an attack, but they don't have to be force on force strikes.


This is where most student's heads should be when ever looking at a technique that is described as a block, especially if it's a strange "block" like the middle block.  Martial art applications should be practical so if it's strange then take a look at it from a different perspective that's "outside of the box" of what application is being taught.   It doesn't mean that a student is being taught incorrectly but it may mean that the specific technique should be given more thought about it's application.  With this particular technique I just kind of stumbled on it when playing around and I thought,  "Hey I can use this technique instead."


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## RTKDCMB (Dec 23, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Tonight's sparring class was full on injuries. I almost jammed my fingers from an incorrect block, the other instructor was elbowed in the eye. One of our younger students fell hard to the floor after having her kicks grabbed. Another student was kicked in the hip and now has an injured hip. Another student was punched in the eye. I've never seen so many injuries in one night.


Took it easy on your students that night did ya?


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## MI_martialist (Dec 23, 2016)

I can see about a dozen applications just off the top of my head when I see this.


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 25, 2016)

KangTsai said:


> Describe? I would predict that it's mainly a kick counter.


It can really be any move, off the opposite shoulder.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 25, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> someone punches and you punish their arm


It depends on how you may block your opponent's punch. A punch always start from 

static -> slow speed -> fast speed

If you block your opponent's punch that's close to 

- his body, his punch has not generated full speed yet.
- your body, his punch may have reached to full speed already.

So the best way to block someone's punch is to block it as close to his body (as far away from your body) as possible.


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## Paul_D (Dec 27, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Often these these techniques are taught as blocks and then when people try to use them, it doesn't work as well as the application demonstration for the technique.  I'm not sure how many of you have been kicked in the arm by someone's shin bone, but I've been kicked enough (once really bad) where the thought of me putting my arm up like the first video is a bad idea for me.  Shin beats forearm.
> 
> This is where most student's heads should be when ever looking at a technique that is described as a block, especially if it's a strange "block" like the middle block.  Martial art applications should be practical so if it's strange then take a look at it from a different perspective that's "outside of the box" of what application is being taught.   It doesn't mean that a student is being taught incorrectly but it may mean that the specific technique should be given more thought about it's application.  With this particular technique I just kind of stumbled on it when playing around and I thought,  "Hey I can use this technique instead."


Excatly, there are far too many problems with this techqnue as a block.  If you step backwards then the strike doesn't reach you and so doesn't need to be blocked.  If you need to step forward to reach the strike, then standing still and not moving forward means the strike doesn't reach you and so doesn't need blocking.  Also a "block" only explains one small part of the movement (i.e. what one arm is doing), it deosn't explain what the other arm is doing, why you are stepping, or why you are using the stance you are using.

I would disagree that it doesn't mean the student is being taught incorrectly though, as I would say that is exactly what it means if an instructor offers up the expalintion of "block" for this movement.


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## drop bear (Dec 27, 2016)

so did we ever get an explaination of the wondrous nature of this block?


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## Kung Fu Wang (Dec 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> so did we ever get an explaination of the wondrous nature of this block?


IMO, the outward only motion block is not enough. You should also add "forward" motion into it and wrap your opponent's upper arm. In other words, a block is also used to change a striking range into a clinching range. The reason is simple. After this block, you don't want to block again.


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## JowGaWolf (Dec 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> so did we ever get an explaination of the wondrous nature of this block?


It's coming. I got hit with some additional website design tasks that needed to be done and it as been a deeper rabbit hole than I was expecting.


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