# 13 year old Wing Tsun kid - Any thoughts ? Hope you like :)



## Markman (Jun 28, 2015)




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## Danny T (Jun 28, 2015)

Good demo showing speedy strikes vs a fight type stimulus. Problem is the attacker doesn't continue the attack or do any countering. Is a video of some counter attacking drills vs a push, a person stepping into your personnel space or a single controlled attack. How would he fair and look vs someone really attempting to attack and countered the barrage of chain punches?


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## Buka (Jun 28, 2015)

Welcome to MT, Markman.


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## KPM (Jun 28, 2015)

He looks good!  Hope he sticks with it and doesn't get too distracted with girls and football!  ;-)


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## geezer (Jun 28, 2015)

KPM said:


> He looks good!  Hope he sticks with it and doesn't get too distracted with girls and football!  ;-)



Yeah, too much football can keep you away from the kwoon. As for girls ...there ain't no stoppin' that.


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## drop bear (Jun 28, 2015)

Looks good.


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## Markman (Jun 29, 2015)

Danny T said:


> Good demo showing speedy strikes vs a fight type stimulus. Problem is the attacker doesn't continue the attack or do any countering. Is a video of some counter attacking drills vs a push, a person stepping into your personnel space or a single controlled attack. How would he fair and look vs someone really attempting to attack and countered the barrage of chain punches?



Thank you, i agree, its a different story when push comes to shove, and it's a real fight. But we do these types of drills with the kids as reaction drills. They start off with their eyes shut, allowed only to open them upon contact. In this case we limited him, no elbows, knees, takedowns etc. and as you pointed out, limited attacks from the aggressor, so why not just keep punching

 This kid started off shy and stuttering, and now as you see, has the courage not only to move in and punch, but to do so with speed, power and precision, in front of parents, his instructors and their sifus. 
I believe that this courage, and simple mindset will help him in most fights he would encounter, especially against most other kids his age.


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## Markman (Jun 29, 2015)

geezer said:


> Yeah, too much football can keep you away from the kwoon. As for girls ...there ain't no stoppin' that.



Hahaha it's a real fear of mine ! They have crafty ways them women !


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## Tez3 (Jun 29, 2015)

Markman said:


> They have crafty ways them women !



Among 'them women' are plenty of good martial artists !


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## Markman (Jun 30, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Among 'them women' are plenty of good martial artists !



No doubt, but a a rare breed, luck is required to encounter one amongst the lip gloss mayhem


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## Tez3 (Jun 30, 2015)

Markman said:


> No doubt, but a a rare breed, luck is required to encounter one amongst the lip gloss mayhem



Really? I hate to tell you we are not a rare breed at all. And the lip gloss comment? Do I need to tell you that is dismissive?
here's some American figures. Note that 25% of teenage boys and 22% of teenage girls have participated in martial arts. United States Martial Arts Demographics


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## Danny T (Jun 30, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Really? I hate to tell you we are not a rare breed at all. And the lip gloss comment? Do I need to tell you that is dismissive?
> here's some American figures. Note that 25% of teenage boys and 22% of teenage girls have participated in martial arts. United States Martial Arts Demographics


In our youth and teen programs we average close to 70/30 percent males to females but with a higher renewal rate for the females. In our adult programs males out number the females 80/20 but again the renewal rate for females is greater.


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## Vajramusti (Jun 30, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Among 'them women' are plenty of good martial artists !


------------------------------------Sexist comments just before Tez's post are best ignored.
Nancy Macdonald was a superb wing chun person.I learned from her as well.
Carinna- currently is superb.
I am teaching pure wing chun including applications to a female law enforcement officer. I have faith in her judgment that she will not misuse it.


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## tshadowchaser (Jun 30, 2015)

Not knowing enough about Wing Chun it is not my place to comment on his ability in the art, however I will say he has good reactions and that I hope he continues his studies


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## jks9199 (Jun 30, 2015)

Let's stay on topic, folks...  What do you think of the drill shown?


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## Markman (Jun 30, 2015)

Sometimes text is not the best medium for Sarcasm/ not serious comments. My gf is a very competent ma, and 60 percent of my team are girls, awesome girls I might add. Sorry about the mix up people, and thank you for the feedback- best regards mark


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## Markman (Jun 30, 2015)




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## tshadowchaser (Jul 1, 2015)

From what I'm seeing in this video she has what I would call a classical straight mid line attack.  This is what I think off when I think of Wing Chun


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## Markman (Jul 1, 2015)

Thank you, motivates me to keep training them


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 1, 2015)

In both clips, the "knock out intention with body rotation" are missing.

When you train 1 step 3 punches (or chain punches), you should train all the following different ways:

- fast, fast, fast,
- fast, fast, slow,
- fast, slow, slow,
- ...

The

- fast punch does not require body rotation. It's faster punch but less powerful.
- slow punch does require body rotation. It's slower but more powerful.

You may not need "knock out intention with body rotation" in all your punches, but you will need it in "some" of your punches.

Here is an example of a punch with "knock down intention". It requires some extra "body rotation".


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## ShortBridge (Jul 2, 2015)

I'm taking my si mui to lunch in a little while to thank her for teaching my class while I was out of town. She's trained with us for about 8 years and had no training before she came. She has grown more and progressed more than 95% of the men who I've trained with and she became a mother in the process.

She is a sweet and awesome person and also a bad-*** below the surface. She is always my first choice of who to trust my own students with when I'm gone.


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## LFJ (Jul 6, 2015)

A couple things.

What would the attacker have done if he had been more obstinate? Looks like he was just going in for a hug, no real plan. I think there should be more pressure, even for a simple drill like this.

And secondly, you ask why not just keep punching? Well, chain punching is great when the opponent just turns away and tries to duck and cover, but it's actually the easiest thing to stop/counter with little effort. So, again, had the attacker not been so passive, the defender wouldn't be given the impression that things will be so clean and simple.

Not saying the drill has to be more complicated. It can still be kept simple, but given more realistic pressure at least.


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## Callen (Jul 9, 2015)

LFJ said:


> A couple things.
> 
> What would the attacker have done if he had been more obstinate? Looks like he was just going in for a hug, no real plan. I think there should be more pressure, even for a simple drill like this.
> 
> ...



Good points. The example drill does seem well paced for a beginning 13 year old student though. How long has he been training? It's much more effective to turn-up the pressure as the practitioner's understanding and skill progresses, especially with younger students. While I agree with LFJ that the attacker was a little passive in the video, there should always be levels to training.

Most fights at school or with bullies start with pushing. The auto-response of Chain Punching after being pushed is always a great drill for kids. The average attacker, will not defend against them very well. His knowledge base and application should increase as he and his Wing Chun matures. Looking forward to seeing more from this kid as he continues his journey.


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## geezer (Jul 9, 2015)

Callen said:


> Most fights at school or with bullies start with pushing. *The auto-response of Chain Punching after being pushed is always a great drill for kids.* The average attacker, will not defend against them very well. His knowledge base and application should increase as he and his Wing Chun matures. Looking forward to seeing more from this kid as he continues his journey.



The only trouble with that response is that it will result in an automatic 10 day suspension from school in the district where I work ...and similar penalties in most other districts. _That_ can result in angry parents blaming the WC instructor. Right or wrong, such a pre-emptive response comes with consequences, and so should be reserved for extreme cases of self defense against violent assault.

A couple years back I witnessed an argument between two high school students suddenly reach the flash-point and a large athletic kid  hauled-off and punched a much smaller boy hard enough to break his nose. The attacker was suspended for ten days and the boy with the broken nose, was suspended for just five (he would have gotten ten days as well if I hadn't gone to bat for him).

Seriously, today's mindless "zero tolerance" policies in schools mean that even young kid's must learn effective awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and escape skills even in schoolyard tussles. Honestly, they may face a higher bar in proving self-defence to school administrators than an adult dealing with the authorities in a similar encounter.

Other than that, I agree that chain punching is an effective instinctive response. And sometimes it might be worth the consequences to put a stop to bullying. It's a tough call.


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## Callen (Jul 10, 2015)

Yes sir. I agree with those statements as well.

It's always good for kids to understand effective awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and escape skills regardless of their ability to defend themselves. In fact, those should also be taught by their Sifu. In my opinion, one of the most important lessons for kids learning Gong Fu (or any Martial Art) is the concept of respect, responsibility and discipline. Teaching the traditions of Wu De should be part of a young student's curriculum from day one.


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## PiedmontChun (Jul 10, 2015)

At the very least, I would think a good response to train for when pushed is immedietely raising hands to guard (man sau wu sau) with forward intention (versus just posing in mid air). From there it can shield or intercept an incoming strike much faster than having hands at your side, and its still an essentially defensive posture, not offensive if there is concern about kids getting flack for counter attacking a bully. Pretty basic.

I was a big kid growing up and didn't get bullied by anyone my own age; I did see much smaller friends and girls get mercilessly hassled though. Its ironic and strange that the things we have "zero tolerence" for in schools and punish both parties for could often be considered "assault" or at least "harrasment" in the adult world, complete with a legal system to uphold the distinction. How many adults would appreciate what is essentially victim blaming / shaming if they defended themselves only to face the same punishment as their attacker?


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## Jake104 (Jul 13, 2015)

geezer said:


> The only trouble with that response is that it will result in an automatic 10 day suspension from school in the district where I work ...and similar penalties in most other districts. _That_ can result in angry parents blaming the WC instructor. Right or wrong, such a pre-emptive response comes with consequences, and so should be reserved for extreme cases of self defense against violent assault.
> 
> A couple years back I witnessed an argument between two high school students suddenly reach the flash-point and a large athletic kid  hauled-off and punched a much smaller boy hard enough to break his nose. The attacker was suspended for ten days and the boy with the broken nose, was suspended for just five (he would have gotten ten days as well if I hadn't gone to bat for him).
> 
> ...


At my sons high school just being involved in a physical altercation results in automatic suspension for all parties. So if student A attacks student B and student B does nothing. Both parties get suspended. So logically if your going to do the time no matter what? You might as well do the crime? I tell my son who's a senior now, to defend himself no matter what. I'll handle the staff. I'll pretend that what he did ( standing up and defending himself) was wrong and on the way home I'll buy him an ice cream cone!


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