# Would you hit a woman who was unarmed?



## Jared Traveler (Sep 6, 2022)

Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


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## Rich Parsons (Sep 6, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?



I have seen women one shot and knock out men. 
I have seen big women take out big and medium guys. 

When their is violence. There are only its. 
Because Ladies and gentlemen are not in the middle of it. 
Men and women are. And I am not going to stop and ask. 

As to kids or those of a child build they are easier to address, unless a force multiplier is involved.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 6, 2022)

Aw jeez man.


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## drop bear (Sep 7, 2022)

I haven't had to.


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## Cynik75 (Sep 7, 2022)

Yes. Done a few times.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 7, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Are you under the misconception that this is 1922? It's 2022.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 7, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Are you under the misconception that this is 1922? It's 2022.


Is that a yes?


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## jstacy1228 (Sep 7, 2022)

It would probably depend on the situation and my perception of the danger but... probably. I don't like to admit it, but I'm at a distinct disadvantage with gait, balance, and walking issues. 

That said, it is probably easy for even a child to beat me up if they want to--or at least knock me off my feet, steal my cane, and run.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 7, 2022)

I would apply the same test for hitting a woman who was attacking me as I would for a man: Is this individual presenting a significant danger to me that I can't safely handle with a lower level of force?

Now, statistically speaking, there are fewer women than men who would present such a danger. Women, on average, are smaller, physically weaker, and less likely to have significant fighting experience than men. I'm a 6'4", 200 lb man with 41 years of martial arts training and a black belt in BJJ. Against the majority of women out there, if they attacked me unarmed, I could safely defend myself by deflecting their attacks, restraining them, or just letting them hurt themselves on my blocks. (The same would go for a much smaller, weaker, and untrained man.)

But real world attacks come from individuals, not statistical averages. There are women out there who could hurt me badly if I didn't take them every bit as seriously as a male attacker. If I were ever attacked by such a woman I would treat them just the same as a man who posed a real threat to me - which might include hitting them.


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## Buka (Sep 7, 2022)

When I was eighteen I was in a very crowded, very big, night club that we occasionally frequented.  It was a college gin mill with an occupancy limit of eight hundred people, but it was always over the occupancy limit, way over.

A woman in her late twenties, who was nearby to us, was drunk and rowdy. She approached me and spit a mouthful of beer into my face. I stood there thinking WTF?

She then picked up a pitcher of beer and threw that in my face. Her girlfriends, also drunk, were cheering her on. She took a lit cigarette from one of her friends and went to put it out on my forehead. I slapped her, hard, and pushed her away.

Bouncers in the club were hurrying over to us, but the place was jammed packed and it took them a few seconds. They picked her up and threw her out of the club. They then offered me a bouncing job, which I took and started working that very night. That was my first bouncer’s job.

I worked that job three nights a week, (soaked with beer that first night) never filled out any paperwork and was paid in cash at the end of every shift. My, how things have changed.

That was the first, last and only time I’ve ever raised a hand to a woman, or ever will. I was young, stupid and just reacted. I don’t feel the least bit bad about it, but have enough experience now to rectify that situation in a more peaceful and professional manner.


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## Holmejr (Sep 7, 2022)

You mean like Sean Connery style? No way man! Knife welding? Without hesitation. The real question is would you hit a pregnant man?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 7, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> You mean like Sean Connery style? No way man! Knife welding? Without hesitation. The real question is would you hit a pregnant man?


Here we go…


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 7, 2022)

Buka said:


> When I was eighteen I was in a very crowded, very big, night club that we occasionally frequented.  It was a college gin mill with an occupancy limit of eight hundred people, but it was always over the occupancy limit, way over.
> 
> A woman in her late twenties, who was nearby to us, was drunk and rowdy. She approached me and spit a mouthful of beer into my face. I stood there thinking WTF?
> 
> ...


So you liked it and wanted to have more similar experiences? Interesting, I’m not kink shaming…


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 8, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


I believe in gender equality


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 8, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Is that a yes?


I defend myself and others in whatever manner and to whatever extent seems appropriate given the circumstances and the level of the threat. Gender issues don't come into it. Because I'm not an idiot.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 8, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> I defend myself and others in whatever manner and to whatever extent seems appropriate given the circumstances and the level of the threat. Gender issues don't come into it. Because I'm not an idiot.


Agreed some guys have this idea that women are the gentler sex, if the physical attributes of men and women were switched over so that women had superior strength I bet you would soon see lots of battered men, read some accounts of how Comanche women treated their prisoners, treat any attacker as just that and forget everything else.


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## punisher73 (Sep 8, 2022)

I've modified my answer after working in LE/Corrections for the past 25 years.

I'd never hit a lady....


A lady is NEVER going to act in a manner that would result in me having to put hands on her.  A female/woman on the other hand, may have to.  I know based on experience, we've had more staff hurt when having an altercation with a female because they don't want to go hands on and don't control the situation like they would do if it were a male.


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 8, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


I will defend myself if I am attacked.  Gender doesn't enter into it.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 8, 2022)

Buka said:


> When I was eighteen I was in a very crowded, very big, night club that we occasionally frequented.  It was a college gin mill with an occupancy limit of eight hundred people, but it was always over the occupancy limit, way over.
> 
> A woman in her late twenties, who was nearby to us, was drunk and rowdy. She approached me and spit a mouthful of beer into my face. I stood there thinking WTF?
> 
> ...


I’m just teasing…


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## Tez3 (Sep 8, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Are you assuming only men post on here?


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## Buka (Sep 8, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m just teasing…


I know, bro. It was a good tease.


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## Alan0354 (Sep 8, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Do you have a choice if she is attacking you?

I am for woman being strong, but don't expect me to be beaten at the same time.


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## drop bear (Sep 8, 2022)

Alan0354 said:


> Do you have a choice if she is attacking you?
> 
> I am for woman being strong, but don't expect me to be beaten at the same time.



The times i have seen bouncers hit women is generally when they loose control of the situation.

So the choice is go in and shut them down with some authority. Then you are not defending punches. Then you are not throwing them.

I always tried to use two guys to physical girls that way I could just grab their arms and use body mass.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 8, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Are you assuming only men post on here?


Do these answers surprise you at all?


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 8, 2022)

I will share my thoughts on the subject. I grew up in a time, location and culture (not so long ago) where real men don't hit women. 

As a cop I have delt with lots of angry woman, many who resisted, some attempting to attack me. One in particular was very strong and big, yelling she was pregnant (she wasn't), while doing everything to resist. That took a higher level of grappling skills, and I ended up with her hair grease all over my uniform, but I didn't hurt or hit her.

Perhaps this makes a case for some strikers to take up grappling? Perhaps I'm an antiquated dinosaur in my thinking? I know many women deserve it, but that doesn't mean I have to be the one to give it to them.

Never say never, but put me down as someone who is unwilling to hit an unarmed woman. Even if that means taking a few strikes, I will work towards a solution that does not require me to smash them with my fist, elbow, knees or feet.

Would I to save my life? Sure. Is an unarmed woman a realistic life threatening situation for me? Or even a situation where I'm facing serious physical injury? No. Not without crazy extenuating circumstances.

But that's just me, I fully understand women can and often do deserve to be hit. I think it's justified, but just not for me.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 8, 2022)

punisher73 said:


> I've modified my answer after working in LE/Corrections for the past 25 years.
> 
> I'd never hit a lady....
> 
> ...


As a former jailer, I know you are correct, regarding a soft approach to dealing with aggressive females can "green light" more assaultive behavior on their part. I never advocated a soft approach to aggressive women for this reason.

However in my experience, there is a way to have a stronger command presence early in the confrontation, maintain a reasonable tactical advantage, and be aggressive enough to shut down this problem, before things escalate.

In simple terms if you have to grab a woman and you do it softly, they will be more likely to resist. Resulting in having to use a higher level of force. Conversely if you gab them strong and aggressive, they realize resisting or fighting will result in getting slammed. They are much more likely to comply. Grabbing them with just a little strength and aggression is often the trick to ultimately not hurting them.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 9, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I will share my thoughts on the subject. I grew up in a time, location and culture (not so long ago) where real men don't hit women.
> 
> As a cop I have delt with lots of angry woman, many who resisted, some attempting to attack me. One in particular was very strong and big, yelling she was pregnant (she wasn't), while doing everything to resist. That took a higher level of grappling skills, and I ended up with her hair grease all over my uniform, but I didn't hurt or hit her.
> 
> ...





Jared Traveler said:


> But that's just me, I fully understand women can and often do deserve to be hit. I think it's justified, but just not for me.


That’s sexist bro women now never stop demanding to be treated equally in all things so we should respect their wishes. If it’s a 55 kilo guy who’s attacking you alongside a100 kilo woman would you really go easier on her because she’s a lady. I met countless guys who were kind and gentle people especially with their kids and lots of nasty aggressive women who were abusi to their kids. Judge people on how they act not on their gender


Jared Traveler said:


> I will share my thoughts on the subject. I grew up in a time, location and culture (not so long ago) where real men don't hit women.
> 
> As a cop I have delt with lots of angry woman, many who resisted, some attempting to attack me. One in particular was very strong and big, yelling she was pregnant (she wasn't), while doing everything to resist. That took a higher level of grappling skills, and I ended up with her hair grease all over my uniform, but I didn't hurt or hit her.
> 
> ...





Jared Traveler said:


> I will share my thoughts on the subject. I grew up in a time, location and culture (not so long ago) where real men don't hit women.
> 
> As a cop I have delt with lots of angry woman, many who resisted, some attempting to attack me. One in particular was very strong and big, yelling she was pregnant (she wasn't), while doing everything to resist. That took a higher level of grappling skills, and I ended up with her hair grease all over my uniform, but I didn't hurt or hit her.
> 
> ...


If you were being attacked by a 50 kilo guy and a 100 kilo woman would you really go easier with her, women have been clamouring everyday to be treated equally so we should respect their wishes, I know lots of kind gentle loving dads and lots of aggressive violent mums, got to treat people on how they act and not on their gender


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 9, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> That’s sexist bro women now never stop demanding to be treated equally in all things so we should respect their wishes. If it’s a 55 kilo guy who’s attacking you alongside a100 kilo woman would you really go easier on her because she’s a lady. I met countless guys who were kind and gentle people especially with their kids and lots of nasty aggressive women who were abusi to their kids. Judge people on how they act not on their gender
> 
> 
> If you were being attacked by a 50 kilo guy and a 100 kilo woman would you really go easier with her, women have been clamouring everyday to be treated equally so we should respect their wishes, I know lots of kind gentle loving dads and lots of aggressive violent mums, got to treat people on how they act and not on their gender


One beautiful thing about individual combat is fighting your fight, they way you want to do it. You can't control what someone else does, but you can always control what you do.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 9, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> One beautiful thing about individual combat is fighting your fight, they way you want to do it. You can't control what someone else does, but you can always control what you do.


On this we disagree, I believe it’s unfair to men and not what women say they want, women are in army rangers now and lots of women stayed in ukranie to fight on the front besides their men. I know if went against any ufc female fighter I’d get wrecked. I hate the woke agenda especially after watching rings of power and I know there’s lots of physically weak and mentally weak women, but there’s also an awful lot of guys out there who are in the same boat. They want equality, let’s respect their wishes


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 9, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> On this we disagree, I believe it’s unfair to men and not what women say they want, women are in army rangers now and lots of women stayed in ukranie to fight on the front besides their men. I know if went against any ufc female fighter I’d get wrecked. I hate the woke agenda especially after watching rings of power and I know there’s lots of physically weak and mentally weak women, but there’s also an awful lot of guys out there who are in the same boat. They want equality, let’s respect their wishes


None of this applies to me though. Fighting with weapons as soldiers is not the subject at hand. I don't care if there is a woke agenda, I am not honoring anyone by punching a woman in the face. I'm not a small or weak man.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 9, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> None of this applies to me though. Fighting with weapons as soldiers is not the subject at hand. I don't care if there is a woke agenda, I am not honoring anyone by punching a woman in the face. I'm not a small or weak man.


Piont is if women are saying that they want to be treated equally and then you treat them differently based solely on their gender it’s going against what they want. If a child started attacking me I would react differently because they are not adults, but I would treat boys and girls the same. To answer the original question if a adult attacked me I won’t be thinking I have to be a gentleman and take it easy cause she’s a woman, first rule of street defence, never underestimate the situation or your opponent, forget gender especially when that’s what women say they want.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 9, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> Piont is if women are saying that they want to be treated equally and then you treat them differently based solely on their gender it’s going against what they want. If a child started attacking me I would react differently because they are not adults, but I would treat boys and girls the same. To answer the original question if a adult attacked me I won’t be thinking I have to be a gentleman and take it easy cause she’s a woman, first rule of street defence, never underestimate the situation or your opponent, forget gender especially when that’s what women say they want.


I think I will stick with what my father taught me regarding hitting woman. I will survive or I will not. I have made thousands of decisions intentionally and happily knowing they expose me to more risk. Being generous at best my decision not to hit a woman resulting in me being seriously injured is a high impact/extremely low probability event.

I thought the first rule was don't be paranoid? Maybe that is rule #2? 😁

I'm not faulting someone for doing it. Some women deserve it, some men may be in fear for their safety. I get it.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 9, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I think I will stick with what my father taught me regarding hitting woman. I will survive or I will not. I have made thousands of decisions intentionally and happily knowing they expose me to more risk. Being generous at best my decision not to hit a woman resulting in me being seriously injured is a high impact/extremely low probability event.
> 
> I thought the first rule was don't be paranoid? Maybe that is rule #2? 😁
> 
> I'm not faulting someone for doing it. Some women deserve it, some men may be in fear for their safety. I get it.


Fair enough, we can agree to disagree, just be careful bro cause times and women have changed since your Father’s Day, I agree that being attacked by a woman for me is also unlikely to happen cause I treat everyone with respect, but if it does I will treat them with the same caution and respect that I would a man.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 9, 2022)

Alan0354 said:


> Do you have a choice if she is attacking you?


Of course you do. There are always multiple choices in every confrontation. The idea that there is a "one size fits all" solution is ludicrous.


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## Alan0354 (Sep 9, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Of course you do. There are always multiple choices in every confrontation. The idea that there is a "one size fits all" solution is ludicrous.


But is she is swinging at you, then what? I am talking about to the point she start whaling at you. If you are not good in grappling, then what? Run?

In this modern days of equality, who's to say men should not fight back if a woman whaling at you, that you should run?


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 10, 2022)

Alan0354 said:


> But is she is swinging at you, then what?


What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?


Alan0354 said:


> I am talking about to the point she start whaling at you. If you are not good in grappling, then what? Run?


What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?


Alan0354 said:


> In this modern days of equality, who's to say men should not fight back if a woman whaling at you, that you should run?


There are lots of options. I get that you don't understand them all, but others do. That might be related to the fact that you don't really have any training or experience.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 10, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?
> 
> What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?
> 
> There are lots of options. I get that you don't understand them all, but others do. That might be related to the fact that you don't really have any training or experience.


I think part of the problem is that men, especially gentlemen automatically view women as less of a threat in any given circumstance then men. My friend had a very small fat woman in her 40s start on him. He was relaxed, then she picked up a stone and threw it at his leg, he did nothing next stone hit his back, then she picked a good sized one and aimed right at his head. He spun her round and put her in a rear naked cans told her to drop it which she did, soon as he let go she stuck her car keys in his head. How do you think that situation would have played out if the aggressor was a guy.


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## Ivan (Sep 11, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


She may be unarmed, but a threat is a threat. It also depends on the situation and how sudden it happens.

For example, I approached a girl on a group chat for a university project and we met up to do some group work together. However, she was one of those types of girls who cannot control themselves and thinks her small size is an excuse to hit bigger and larger men when they annoy her - I wouldn't annoy her in a mean way, but I'd make jokes and she hit me while laughing. However, this slowly escalated to her full-on stamping on me whilst I was sitting down on a couch.

At one point, I moved away and we both did an online quiz separately as part of our module. It took about 30 minutes for us to finish it, and I had finished first and I was sitting down on the other side of the couch minding my business on my phone. Out of nowhere with no provocation, she threw a right cross straight at my chin whilst I was looking at my phone - it was a hard punch and I could feel my brain rock in my head. Before I even knew what was going on I had grabbed her by the collar and said "If you do that again I will knock you the love out". 

I felt extremely bad after she ran away scared, but my point is that in any situation, your reaction won't depend on what your body or mind perceives as a threat. In a fight, or when there is a sudden attack, the gender, and ability of your opponent are under no consideration - your choice and your reaction are made before you consciously even realize that there was a choice in the first place.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 11, 2022)

Ivan said:


> She may be unarmed, but a threat is a threat. It also depends on the situation and how sudden it happens.
> 
> For example, I approached a girl on a group chat for a university project and we met up to do some group work together. However, she was one of those types of girls who cannot control themselves and thinks her small size is an excuse to hit bigger and larger men when they annoy her - I wouldn't annoy her in a mean way, but I'd make jokes and she hit me while laughing. However, this slowly escalated to her full-on stamping on me whilst I was sitting down on a couch.
> 
> ...


I think you make great points. However while many people experience unconscious reactions during sudden stressful events, the other thing to know is that there is another way. A way where you remain consciously mentally in control at all times.


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## Ivan (Sep 11, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I think you make great points. However while many people experience unconscious reactions during sudden stressful events, the other thing to know is that there is another way. A way where you remain consciously mentally in control at all times.


I don't believe so. If you're consciously thinking during a fight, you're not fighting at your best.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 11, 2022)

Ivan said:


> I don't believe so. If you're consciously thinking during a fight, you're not fighting at your best.


Exactly, that’s why training in a realistic way like MMA, boxing, wrestling where you go full out with the same techniques you use for a real fight gives an advantage, it’s been true throughout history, Roman legionaries we’re successful cause they trained hard using the same techniques as they did in battle because in a real fight, adrenaline messes your thought process and training is what kicks in


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 11, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> I think part of the problem is that men, especially gentlemen automatically view women as less of a threat in any given circumstance then men.


This statement is incorrect. Allow me to fix it for you.

I think part of the problem is that fools, especially exceptionally foolish men, automatically view women as less of a threat in any given circumstance then [sic] men. 


gerardfoy50 said:


> My friend had a very small fat woman in her 40s start on him. He was relaxed, then she picked up a stone and threw it at his leg, he did nothing next stone hit his back, then she picked a good sized one and aimed right at his head. He spun her round and put her in a rear naked cans told her to drop it which she did, soon as he let go she stuck her car keys in his head. How do you think that situation would have played out if the aggressor was a guy.


I think your friend is a foolish man. Gender is irrelevant.


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## Alan0354 (Sep 11, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?
> 
> What part of 'it depends on the circumstances' is unclear?
> 
> There are lots of options. I get that you don't understand them all, but others do. That might be related to the fact that you don't really have any training or experience.


Which part of she start swinging at you that you don't understand? Circumstances is she is SWINGING at you.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 11, 2022)

Alan0354 said:


> Which part of she start swinging at you that you don't understand? Circumstances is she is SWINGING at you.


Is your world really that simplistic? Not all swings are the same. Some pose a major threat. Some do not. In some cases I would strike. In some I would grapple. In some I would walk away. In some I would draw my weapon and fire. This is by no means a complete list of my options.


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## Alan0354 (Sep 11, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is your world really that simplistic? Not all swings are the same. Some pose a major threat. Some do not. In some cases I would strike. In some I would grapple. In some I would walk away. In some I would draw my weapon and fire. This is by no means a complete list of my options.


The original question is simplistic also, you just take it as face value. If a woman swing at you, what would you do. The way you look at it, everything has too many options. What is the point of covering everything?


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 11, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> This statement is incorrect. Allow me to fix it for you.
> 
> I think part of the problem is that fools, especially exceptionally foolish men, automatically view women as less of a threat in any given circumstance then [sic] men.
> 
> I think your friend is a foolish man. Gender is irrelevant.


Part of the problem is that men are socialised in a certain way, we have to treat women in a certain way and part of this is that it is taboo to hit a woman, generally this is a good thing but it all to often results in men being shocked into inaction and confused when attacked by a woman, this is because women traditionally also believed and behaved as people who would not use violence, problem is that times have changed and many not all women have a different attitude, because it’s only a minority of women who do this it’s still always a surprise when it happens


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 11, 2022)

Ivan said:


> I don't believe so. If you're consciously thinking during a fight, you're not fighting at your best.


There is a difference between not think, verse allowing your body to respond, with a conscious awareness that you can stop what you are doing at any moment.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


hmmm. The question is.  Why wouldn't I hit someone who was attacking me?  I'm a mobile 200lbs.   I figure that if anyone attacks me, then it's because they think they can win or harm me.  If they think that, then I better take that person as a serious danger and risk to my safety 

Danger is Danger no matter what shape or form it takes.  Do you ask the same question about a female lion or a female tiger? Humans are more dangerous than a lion or a tiger, so this type of question has always been strange to me.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I would apply the same test for hitting a woman who was attacking me as I would for a man: Is this individual presenting a significant danger to me that I can't safely handle with a lower level of force?
> 
> Now, statistically speaking, there are fewer women than men who would present such a danger. Women, on average, are smaller, physically weaker, and less likely to have significant fighting experience than men. I'm a 6'4", 200 lb man with 41 years of martial arts training and a black belt in BJJ. Against the majority of women out there, if they attacked me unarmed, I could safely defend myself by deflecting their attacks, restraining them, or just letting them hurt themselves on my blocks. (The same would go for a much smaller, weaker, and untrained man.)
> 
> But real world attacks come from individuals, not statistical averages. There are women out there who could hurt me badly if I didn't take them every bit as seriously as a male attacker. If I were ever attacked by such a woman I would treat them just the same as a man who posed a real threat to me - which might include hitting them.


I should have read this first before I posted. Then I could have just made a short post, stating that it's not who is attacking but the danger that person presents.  

For me there are basically 2 types of conclusions attackers have
1. The attacker who think they can beat me.
2. The attacker who thinks I won't fight back.

#1 is tricky because a person who thinks they can beat me doesn't have to be stronger than me.  A weaker person with a weapon could think the same thing as a stronger person without a weapon. The way that I've been able to avoid fights is to keep people from coming to Conclusion #1 or Conclusion #2.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Are you assuming only men post on here?


ha ha ha.. someone woke up the tiger


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 11, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


No! I'll play defense and I won't hit back.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> No! I'll play defense and I won't hit back.


ha ha ha.. you just haven't met the right woman.  There are some women who will break your defenses and make you take a nap.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Sep 11, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> ha ha ha.. you just haven't met the right woman.  There are some women who will break your defenses and make you take a nap.


That just mean my defense skill is not good enough. I'll need more defense skill training.

I may play offense against man. But I don't mind to play defense against woman.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Ivan said:


> She may be unarmed, but a threat is a threat. It also depends on the situation and how sudden it happens.


yep.  No one asks if an attacking tiger is male or female.  A threat is a treat.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 11, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> yep.  No one asks if an attacking tiger is male or female.  A threat is a treat.


Certainly every TV show that has been produced in the last 5 years would lead you to believe this is true. 😊


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 11, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Certainly every TV show that has been produced in the last 5 years would lead you to believe this is true. 😊


Nope, it has nothing to do with TV shows.  A threat is a treat.    If a female attacker was wearing all black with a black mask and sucker punched you, then your first thought is going to be "Is my attacker male, female, or transgender." because that's always the first thing that goes through your mind when you get attacked.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 11, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Nope, it has nothing to do with TV shows.  A threat is a treat.    If a female attacker was wearing all black with a black mask and sucker punched you, then your first thought is going to be "Is my attacker male, female, or transgender." because that's always the first thing that goes through your mind when you get attacked.


First of all I'm not ticklish. 😊 And if she is wearing a mask, it's probably Halloween and I will be handing out candy, not getting punched by her. But if somehow I'm in another riot or something and a woman conceals her identity, and I'm not sure if it's a female, then I guess that is on her and not me. But for most situations, shame on me for letting a masked person get close enough to strike me in the first place.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 11, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> ha ha ha.. you just haven't met the right woman.  There are some women who will break your defenses and make you take a nap.


If Gabi Garcia ever comes after me, I’m just going to be trying to survive by whatever means necessary. She’s bigger than I am, stronger than I am, and is also a BJJ black belt.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 12, 2022)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> That just mean my defense skill is not good enough. I'll need more defense skill training.
> 
> I may play offense against man. But I don't mind to play defense against woman.


Brother it’s not only women’s attitudes that have changed, my kids judo coach is a woman my daughter can beat any boy in her tkd class who’s same age as her, their are hundreds of thousands of women in all types of martial arts classes all over the world learning how to kick ***, the games changed. Change with it or get a nasty surprise.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> But for most situations, shame on me for letting a masked person get close enough to strike me in the first place.


Unmasked people get close to you all the time.  They just choose not to attack you which is good considering that there's nothing to stop them from attacking you other than their personality and moral values.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Unmasked people get close to you all the time.  They just choose not to attack you which is good considering that there's nothing to stop them from attacking you other than their personality and moral values.


Respectfully, I think you are grossly underestimating how challenging it is for untrained person or even a trained person to pull off a real world surprise ambush style assault on someone who has intently studied and literally survived by learning to read people and Pre-attack indicators.

But I can agree that everyone is vulnerable to one degree or another.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Respectfully, I think you are grossly underestimating how challenging it is for untrained person or even a trained person to pull off a real world surprise ambush style assault on someone who has intently studied and literally survived by learning to read people and Pre-attack indicators.


The next time you walk past someone or the next time you stand by someone ask yourself this question. 

Has a stranger ever tapped you on the shoulder to get your attention? if so how difficult do you think it was for them to do that? Did you know they were going to tap you before they made contact? The only difference is that it was a tap and not a punch.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> The next time you walk past someone or the next time you stand by someone ask yourself this question.
> 
> Has a stranger ever tapped you on the shoulder to get your attention? if so how difficult do you think it was for them to do that? Did you know they were going to tap you before they made contact? The only difference is that it was a tap and not a punch.


Again, no disrespect, but we come from different worlds. If someone is capable of unintentionally surprising you in this way we are not navigating the world in the same way.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 12, 2022)

I haven't read through all the responses (just the first page or two), so others may be saying similar things.

To me, it's not about their gender. It's about the perceived threat. I bring what I think I need to. If a guy is getting physical, but in a way that doesn't present a problem that can't be easily controlled, I might not need to use strikes. The exact same for a woman.

Given the difference in average body strength and aggression (and, I think, likelihood of having significant training), it's probably more likely I'll need to bring all my weapons to bear if it's a man. But it wouldn't be _because_ it's a man.


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## PhotonGuy (Sep 12, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


You would probably get the book thrown at you.


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## mograph (Sep 12, 2022)

With regard to public perception, this might be a good time to use self-defence tactics other than punching. It depends on the size of the woman, naturally.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Again, no disrespect, but we come from different worlds. If someone is capable of unintentionally surprising you in this way we are not navigating the world in the same way.


I'm still curious to know if some one had trapped you on the shoulder when you didn't expect it.

This is the world that I come from. I watch people and I run scenarios.  For example I see a person with a gun. I then determine if I could attack that person in a way that he or she would not be able to grab their gun and shoot me.  I have not come across any scenario where it would be impossible to surprise attack the person with the gun. 

Getting shot after the attack is a different issue but in terms of the attack, yep I can land a punch.  The only scenario where I can't land a successful punch with a high probability is through a frontal assault. 

Police get surprise attacked from time to time.  A lady at a Walmart was hit in the head with a baseball bat. Now if I was in a different country where I'm at a higher risk, then my level of alertness would be heightened I may have an larger personal space. Or a more sensitive space.  The safer one feels that the environment is the lpower a person's defense is.  Me in the hood is not the same alertness as me in a rich area.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Again, no disrespect, but we come from different worlds. If someone is capable of unintentionally surprising you in this way we are not navigating the world in the same way.


By the way just because someone hadn't suckered punched me yet doesn't mean that it's not possible.  The whole point of taking preventive measures is an acceptance that it is possible.   We don't prepare for the impossible.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 12, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I haven't read through all the responses (just the first page or two), so others may be saying similar things.
> 
> To me, it's not about their gender. It's about the perceived threat. I bring what I think I need to. If a guy is getting physical, but in a way that doesn't present a problem that can't be easily controlled, I might not need to use strikes. The exact same for a woman.
> 
> Given the difference in average body strength and aggression (and, I think, likelihood of having significant training), it's probably more likely I'll need to bring all my weapons to bear if it's a man. But it wouldn't be _because_ it's a man.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 12, 2022)

As I mentioned earlier my kids judo coach is a woman slim build, normal he light about 40, luckily she a great natured person, but if she was violent by nature and she went at you, if you didn’t bring all your abilities 100% to the fight, man it would be a big mistake. Women can fight these days, not all, but then lots of men are physically weak with no training, forget gender


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 12, 2022)

Ivan said:


> I don't believe so. If you're consciously thinking during a fight, you're not fighting at your best.


Nonsense. Ask any top level fighter if they stop thinking when they're going at it. Don't be surprised if they look at you like you're a loon.
People learning to fight go through stages, not unlike the Three Stages of Civilization in *The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy*. And as that book says on the cover, "Don't Panic" is good advice. The three stages are: "What do I do???" followed by "I know what to do" followed by "Which of the five counters will I use?"


Alan0354 said:


> The original question is simplistic also, you just take it as face value.


Simple questions often lead to complex answers. "What does it mean to be good?" is a simple question. Good luck finding a simple answer.


Alan0354 said:


> If a woman swing at you, what would you do.


I have answered this several times. It depends.


Alan0354 said:


> The way you look at it, everything has too many options.


Not really. I am capable of handling the options. If you aren't, that's pretty much a "you" problem.


Alan0354 said:


> What is the point of covering everything?


Another simple question with a complex answer.

I made no effort to cover everything. I gave a simple answer, which I am pretty sure most readers understood. You got your knickers knotted about that. So I gave a somewhat longer answer, while explicitly stating that it did *NOT* cover all eventualities. And those knickers just got even more twisted.


gerardfoy50 said:


> Part of the problem is that men are socialised in a certain way, we have to treat women in a certain way and part of this is that it is taboo to hit a woman, generally this is a good thing but it all to often results in men being shocked into inaction and confused when attacked by a woman, this is because women traditionally also believed and behaved as people who would not use violence, problem is that times have changed and many not all women have a different attitude, because it’s only a minority of women who do this it’s still always a surprise when it happens


Holy run-on sentence Batman!

It's not 1922. I doubt there are many men today who have never had the chance to learn that this 1920-ish way of treating other people is not ok. If they don't learn that lesson, that says something unflattering about them.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> Women can fight these days, not all, but then lots of men are physically weak with no training, forget gender


This is where reality is.  Women who train to fight vs women with no training. Not all women train to fight but those that do can bring the hurt as well as beat many of the men out there,, including me.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 12, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> Nonsense. Ask any top level fighter if they stop thinking when they're going at it. Don't be surprised if they look at you like you're a loon.
> People learning to fight go through stages, not unlike the Three Stages of Civilization in *The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy*. And as that book says on the cover, "Don't Panic" is good advice. The three stages are: "What do I do???" followed by "I know what to do" followed by "Which of the five counters will I use?"
> 
> Simple questions often lead to complex answers. "What does it mean to be good?" is a simple question. Good luck finding a simple answer.
> ...


Woman slaps a man in a bar, will she turn round and walk out, for sure. Guy slaps a woman in a bar, call a ambulance for him.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> If Gabi Garcia ever comes after me, I’m just going to be trying to survive by whatever means necessary. She’s bigger than I am, stronger than I am, and is also a BJJ black belt.


I don't know who that is but from what you describe, if I'm thinking about gender then I clearly don't realize the danger in.  But that's OK.  I'm sure I will get an accurate read within the next 5 to 10 seconds lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> Woman slaps a man in a bar, will she turn round and walk out, for sure. Guy slaps a woman in a bar, call a ambulance for him.


Did the woman beat up the man?


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I don't know who that is






Her Wikipedia page lists her weight as 209 lbs, but I think that's when she's cutting weight for MMA. I've seen her walking-around weight as between 235 and 249.

Gabi Garcia - Wikipedia


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> Woman slaps a man in a bar, will she turn round and walk out, for sure. Guy slaps a woman in a bar, call a ambulance for him.


Did the woman beat up the man?


Tony Dismukes said:


> View attachment 28871
> Her Wikipedia page lists her weight as 209 lbs, but I think that's when she's cutting weight for MMA. I've seen her walking-around weight as between 235 and 249.
> 
> Gabi Garcia - Wikipedia


OMG that's a losing fight for me.  I hit hard but that would be like chopping down a redwood with a hatchet.  And the reality is that there are women of a lesser weight that would be just as dangerous.  Slap her in a bar. I'm pretty sure the ambulance is for the man who slapped her.  There's a lady who trains Muay Thai at the same gym I train.  She’s smaller but has some solid kicking skills.  I have yet to think of her as a female martial artist.  I simply think that her kicks are good enough to be a danger to me.  Gender doesn't register until I think about how she's in shape and I'm still trying to get into shape.  Beyond that she's just a quick fighter with some dangerous kicks.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

I Personally like that women can be strong enough fighters to take out some men. To have a wife like that would make a tough team to deal with. To have that comfort that your wife,  girlfriend, sister, niece, mother, daughter can take care of herself in that context is awesome.  But I know some men aren't as excited about that as I am.


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Did the woman beat up the man?
> 
> OMG that's a losing fight for me.  I hit hard but that would be like chopping down a redwood with a hatchet.  And the reality is that there are women of a lesser weight that would be just as dangerous.  Slap her in a bar. I'm pretty sure the ambulance is for the man who slapped her.  There's a lady who trains Muay Thai at the same gym I train.  She’s smaller but has some solid kicking skills.  I have yet to think of her as a female martial artist.  I simply think that her kicks are good enough to be a danger to me.  Gender doesn't register until I think about how she's in shape and I'm still trying to get into shape.  Beyond that she's just a quick fighter with some dangerous kicks.


Other men in the bar, seen it happen and they were all mates who had grown up together, women can get away with treating men in a way that won’t work if it’s the guy doing, so in a fight all that socialisation pressure affects how a lot of guys react


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## Steve (Sep 12, 2022)

I live in a semi-rural, quickly growing area, and we have a couple of different types of what I would consider real dangers... but they aren't from random people in a bar.  Around here, we have a lot of people who are addicted to drugs, and they can be dangerous.  And we have MAGA extremists groups who can be unpredictable and flair up from time to time.  

But around here, at least, people don't really even interact with other people in the bar.  I mean, we go in with our people, sit at the bar or at a table, have a drink or two, maybe watch the game.  Eat a pizza or something fried, and that's about it.  Then we go on our way.  

So, out of curiosity, what sorts of bars do you all have in mind?  And when you talk about "in the bar" do you all have in mind places where people are literally looking for trouble?  If so, do you guys hang out in these places?


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

gerardfoy50 said:


> women can get away with treating men in a way that won’t work if it’s the guy doing, so in a fight all that socialisation pressure affects how a lot of guys react


I've heard this this when I was growing up but not so much now.  Times have changed . I used to at similar things in my twenties but I don't say it now especially as women are coming into their own power.  I know there are men who don't like this and wiry that men are becoming less masculine.  I just don't see it.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Steve said:


> And when you talk about "in the bar" do you all have in mind places where people are literally looking for trouble? If so, do you guys hang out in these places?


Lol if I didn't hang out at the skating rink where teens where being shot, then there was no way I would hang out as an adult where asks get shot. I mostly did the club thing in areas where being shot was a low risk compared to other clubs.

I didn't go to wild places  "I love my people" but during that time too many were trying to be gangsta and prove how tough they were.  I didn't want Abby part of that life style.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

How men see women is also a cultural thing.  Since high school black women were always talked as being Queens and strong black women.  That started in the last 1980's for me and lasted until the first X- man movie.  The image shifted when the Storm hit the big screen. Black women have always been seen as tough by the black community but now they had their action hero.

Any growing pains have long since vanished. I don't know many weak black women.  I wonder when they will reach the MMA phase.


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## Tony Dismukes (Sep 12, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Since high school black women were always talked as being Queens and strong black women. That started in the last 1980's for me and lasted until the first X- man movie. The image shifted when the Storm hit the big screen. Black women have always been seen as tough by the black community but now they had their action hero.
> 
> Any growing pains have long since vanished. I don't know many weak black women. I wonder when they will reach the MMA phase.


Almost 40 years ago, I was one of the original members of the Baltimore chapter of the Guardian Angels. After the guys who came to Baltimore to train us moved on, the chapter ended up under the command of a young lady named (if my memory isn't failing me after all these years) Cissy Henson. She was short, black, built like a Sumo wrestler, and would scrap and spar with any guy in the club.

One of the exercises we would train was calling "time" on a subject. The idea was for a patrol's worth of Angels to just surround a suspect in a circle and detain them for the cops. We weren't supposed to initiate any violence. But we would practice encircling one of our members and seeing whether they could break through the circle and get away.

Around this time we had a guy join use for a while who claimed to have been a Navy Seal. I don't know whether he was telling the truth, but he was strong and tough and had a military bearing. When we put him in the middle he didn't have much trouble punching a hole in the circle, knocking down anyone who got in his way, and running away faster than we could catch him. Then the though occurred to him, based on his military training, that he should begin by taking out the leader. So the next time we put him in the circle, he tried to tackle Cissy on his way out. She sprawled, tied him up, stopped him dead in his tracks, and the rest of us just calmly walked over, grabbed his arms and legs, picked him up and laid him down on the floor.

Funny thing was, I don't think that Cissy had any official martial arts training that I ever knew of. She was just a tough woman who knew how to brawl. If she had actual training she would have been really scary.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 12, 2022)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Almost 40 years ago, I was one of the original members of the Baltimore chapter of the Guardian Angels. After the guys who came to Baltimore to train us moved on, the chapter ended up under the command of a young lady named (if my memory isn't failing me after all these years) Cissy Henson. She was short, black, built like a Sumo wrestler, and would scrap and spar with any guy in the club.
> 
> One of the exercises we would train was calling "time" on a subject. The idea was for a patrol's worth of Angels to just surround a suspect in a circle and detain them for the cops. We weren't supposed to initiate any violence. But we would practice encircling one of our members and seeing whether they could break through the circle and get away.
> 
> ...


My dad taught me to be kind my mom taught me to be cruel.  I would like to see more black women in martial arts, but I don't think that will happen until MMA gets it black female warrior who dominates.  That's when things will really get crazy.  Lol

But I think it will be a good thing for martial arts. I don't want my daughter to think she can't do something.  I don't want her to feel as if martial arts is barbaric.  Or that is just a man thing.   One day.


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## JD Natan (Sep 13, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Yes.


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## r.d.mcdaniel (Sep 13, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


    I used to somewhat regularly kumite with Marriett Buck. She told some students that in a real fight I'd beat her because of strength but I think she was being very generous. I wouldn't bet on me to win. When I was teaching I had a young woman student that had sevetral older brothers. She was solidly built and very strong. She was tough as nails and learned very quickly, she had a punch like Mike Tyson and I'm pretty sure that she could more than hold her own against most men. I'm sure that if either of these woman wanted to fight, I'd have to use all of my skills to save my ***.


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## jayoliver00 (Sep 13, 2022)

Is she good looking?


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## Doc (Sep 13, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Do you mean again? Yep, sure have, and will again if the circumstances warrant it. Seen too many guys hurt seriously by women claiming to be "ladies" while they try to gouge your eyes out. Having a uterus doesn't give you a pass, and on the job, I had one rule with women. As long as you act like one you will be treated like one." If you "man up" on me the rules shifts to just another suspect.


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## Doc (Sep 13, 2022)

r.d.mcdaniel said:


> I used to somewhat regularly kumite with Marriett Buck. She told some students that in a real fight I'd beat her because of strength but I think she was being very generous. I wouldn't bet on me to win. When I was teaching I had a young woman student that had sevetral older brothers. She was solidly built and very strong. She was tough as nails and learned very quickly, she had a punch like Mike Tyson and I'm pretty sure that she could more than hold her own against most men. I'm sure that if either of these woman wanted to fight, I'd have to use all of my skills to save my ***.


Some women can develop significant strength training and can hit very hard, but that is not where the fight is won or lost. She might be able to punch as hard as some men, but she can't take the same punch and punishment that most men can.


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## Gyakuto (Sep 13, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Yes. ‘Equality‘ demands equal treatment.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 13, 2022)

Doc said:


> Some women can develop significant strength training and can hit very hard, but that is not where the fight is won or lost. She might be able to punch as hard as some men, but she can't take the same punch and punishment that most men can.


You sure about that? I'm pretty sure there a quite a few women out there who take a hit better than most men. Some of them do it on a regular basis in competitions.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 13, 2022)

Doc said:


> Some women can develop significant strength training and can hit very hard, but that is not where the fight is won or lost. She might be able to punch as hard as some men, but she can't take the same punch and punishment that most men can.


The same can be said of men.  Some men can't take a punch or a kick.


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## dustyrebel70 (Sep 13, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Even though I am a woman I feel if a woman is coming at you to attack then there is no reason not to protect yourself, When I was in Karate I was taught there was no gender only how to protect yourself.  I was taught how to do as much damage as possible to get away with little force.  If a man or a woman was coming at me I am going to protect myself no matter what gender they are.


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## Doc (Sep 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You sure about that? I'm pretty sure there a quite a few women out there who take a hit better than most men. Some of them do it on a regular basis in competitions.


Yeah, I'm sure. A minuscule number of women who train professionally to fight in the ring are not the norm, and your logic is flawed. But if you want to go that route, consider this. Take two average people, one female, and one male. Let them both train the same for an equal amount of time, and then answer the question. There's a reason women do not compete against men in combat sports. Now if you want to take that same trained woman and go find some weak male who is not athletic and plays video games all the time after work, you MIGHT have an argument.


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## MrBigglesworth (Sep 13, 2022)

Surely you respond in accordance to the level of threat?


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 13, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Surely you respond in accordance to the level of threat?


To a point. There are many aspects to using force justifiable, legal, moral, preferences, tactical. In one situation I might be willing to take some "damage" and in another zero damage.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 13, 2022)

Doc said:


> Yeah, I'm sure. A minuscule number of women who train professionally to fight in the ring are not the norm, and your logic is flawed. But if you want to go that route, consider this. Take two average people, one female, and one male. Let them both train the same for an equal amount of time, and then answer the question. There's a reason women do not compete against men in combat sports. Now if you want to take that same trained woman and go find some weak male who is not athletic and plays video games all the time after work, you MIGHT have an argument.


You said "most men" not "most trained men" or "most men with training". That's different.


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## Doc (Sep 13, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You said "most men" not "most trained men" or "most men with training". That's different.


"I'm pretty sure there a quite a few women out there who take a hit better than most men. Some of them do it on a regular basis in competitions." 

Ok, now you're making even less sense. If you want to make comparisons they should be reasonably the same. Women who take hits in competition can take a hit but that doesn't mean they can take a hit from a man who is also in competition. You say "They can take a hit better than MOST Men." That is categorically incorrect. I said they can take a hit better than SOME men. Compare apples to apples and you have no argument. As I said before, all things being equal, a woman doesn't have a shot which is why they don't compete against each other..


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## gerardfoy50 (Sep 14, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Surely you respond in accordance to the level of threat?


Ever heard of it’s the quiet ones you got to watch, when facing an unknown attacker you can’t tell what they are bringing, guy down the street from me is 63 skinny and not tall, but he’s an ex royal marine. Overconfidence will get you messed up


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## TularosaKungFu (Sep 14, 2022)

As others have implied, the dignity and honor of the woman would factor into the response, but many now are not really the woman so much as female ape with rabies. 
A woman I had every right to deck was not hurting me anyway and was easy to put right out the door and shut. I lean up against it and she tries to tear it down. Pfft! That was kids i cared about mother, even though dignity was not hers.
Another spoiled beasty thinking very mistaken things would get what i thought would burn most - guerilla woman? There are so many downs and outs, its how beast you want to look. War is war, but in the street i don't think overdoing it, or worse, is good form. Instincts and rage are ours to control and nobody wants to be the creepy one that indulged on it.


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## Hyoho (Sep 14, 2022)

A skilled martial artist should not have too much trouble is disabling a normal woman without punching her. But some are real brutes.

My ex came through the kitchen window at 3:30 in the morning. She used a hammer. She whaled at me and did manage to injure me. I had no choice lay her out with thrust to the neck. Police arrived and it took six of them to get her screaming and kicking to the wagon.

They told me next day it was drink, drugs or both! 

**** happens!


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 14, 2022)

Doc said:


> "I'm pretty sure there a quite a few women out there who take a hit better than most men. Some of them do it on a regular basis in competitions."
> 
> Ok, now you're making even less sense. If you want to make comparisons they should be reasonably the same. Women who take hits in competition can take a hit but that doesn't mean they can take a hit from a man who is also in competition. You say "They can take a hit better than MOST Men." That is categorically incorrect. I said they can take a hit better than SOME men. Compare apples to apples and you have no argument. As I said before, all things being equal, a woman doesn't have a shot which is why they don't compete against each other..


Okay, so where's your evidence for your very strong claim that there are very few - if any - women who can take a hit better than a man? You state I am "categorically incorrect".


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 14, 2022)

TularosaKungFu said:


> As others have implied, the dignity and honor of the woman would factor into the response, but many now are not really the woman so much as female ape with rabies.
> A woman I had every right to deck was not hurting me anyway and was easy to put right out the door and shut. I lean up against it and she tries to tear it down. Pfft! That was kids i cared about mother, even though dignity was not hers.
> Another spoiled beasty thinking very mistaken things would get what i thought would burn most - guerilla woman? There are so many downs and outs, its how beast you want to look. War is war, but in the street i don't think overdoing it, or worse, is good form. Instincts and rage are ours to control and nobody wants to be the creepy one that indulged on it.


Take "woman" out, and would you say the same about men?


----------



## Steve (Sep 14, 2022)

Doc said:


> Yeah, I'm sure. A minuscule number of women who train professionally to fight in the ring are not the norm, and your logic is flawed. But if you want to go that route, consider this. Take two average people, one female, and one male. Let them both train the same for an equal amount of time, and then answer the question. There's a reason women do not compete against men in combat sports. Now if you want to take that same trained woman and go find some weak male who is not athletic and plays video games all the time after work, you MIGHT have an argument.


I think it would be great if we keep as much of the control as possible and change the variable.  Not all men compete.  I think if you take a woman and a man of roughly the same age and weight, and trained them for an equal amount of time, but only one competes.  

I would bet dollars to donuts that the person who competes will be at a significant advantage every time.


----------



## Steve (Sep 14, 2022)

On the topic, outside of sport and competition, I don't think I'd hit anyone unless I felt like I absolutely have to.  And frankly, I've never had an interest in punching people myself competitively, either.  

Thinking back over my life, my instinct has always been to grapple or run.  Control the other person or stay at a safe distance from them.  So, I guess my answer would be no.  Probably not, though I don't think it's gender specific.


----------



## lklawson (Sep 14, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit


YES!



Jared Traveler said:


> a woman


Wait, I stopped reading before I got this far. Is that supposed to change the answer?



Jared Traveler said:


> who was unarmed


Same question.



Jared Traveler said:


> but attacking you?


Is that a requirement?


----------



## jayoliver00 (Sep 14, 2022)

Just throw teeps/front kicks to keep them away. I ain't scared of no woman. Just keep teeping her belly until it pops out of the yoga pants; then she'll quit.


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## jayoliver00 (Sep 14, 2022)

Steve said:


> I think it would be great if we keep as much of the control as possible and change the variable.  Not all men compete.  I think if you take a woman and a man of roughly the same age and weight, and trained them for an equal amount of time, but only one competes.
> 
> I would bet dollars to donuts that the person who competes will be at a significant advantage every time.



I disagree man. It takes a lot of woman to beat a man of equal size. I've trained women from scratch, that will whoop untrained or lowly trained men. But equally trained men w/o ring fights but w/sparring up to hard KO sparring, will usually beat said woman. I currently train a former, pro athlete female who made it onto the world stage in competition. She is very strong, agile, and super fit, yet very little punching power. She would crumble if a man her size went full power to her head. 

Another woman who's also a pro kickboxer. Super strong & fit, but the punching power is just weak. She can probably beat most dudes in pushups & pullups, but no power in her punches. She works a lot on weights too; competition level Crossfitter.


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## Steve (Sep 14, 2022)

jayoliver00 said:


> I disagree man. It takes a lot of woman to beat a man of equal size. I've trained women from scratch, that will whoop untrained or lowly trained men. But equally trained men w/o ring fights but w/sparring up to hard KO sparring, will usually beat said woman. I currently train a former, pro athlete female who made it onto the world stage in competition. She is very strong, agile, and super fit, yet very little punching power. She would crumble if a man her size went full power to her head.
> 
> Another woman who's also a pro kickboxer. Super strong & fit, but the punching power is just weak. She can probably beat most dudes in pushups & pullups, but no power in her punches. She works a lot on weights too; competition level Crossfitter.


Fair enough.  Until we get some real data, we may never know for sure.  This is one of those things where I think we can be misled by individual accounts.  In order to really know for sure, we'd need to be intentional and gather a lot of data.  

Some people fantasize about being killers.  I fantasize about having the funding, time, and institutional credibility to organize studies on this stuff.  Though I will say, I'd tackle the sport vs street training model debate first, and then move to other stuff.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 14, 2022)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Surely you respond in accordance to the level of threat?


Be careful. I said that and stirred up a huge pot.


Jared Traveler said:


> To a point. There are many aspects to using force justifiable, legal, moral, preferences, tactical. In one situation I might be willing to take some "damage" and in another zero damage.


This is flat out wrong. *ANY* time your response is not in accordance with the threat level, you are in the wrong. If you under-respond, you end up injured. Or dead. If you over respond, you end up in jail. Or dead.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 14, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> This is flat out wrong. *ANY* time your response is not in accordance with the threat level, you are in the wrong. If you under-respond, you end up injured. Or dead. If you over respond, you end up in jail. Or dead.


I'm not implying that you over respond. I'm not going to end up dead because an unarmed woman is trying to hit me. What you think I'm saying, is not what I'm saying.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm not implying that you over respond. I'm not going to end up dead because an unarmed woman is trying to hit me. What you think I'm saying, is not what I'm saying.


There's two issues with this statement. 1: You might end up dead because an unarmed woman is trying to hit you. Check out reddit's sub watchpeopledie (I think that's the sub name). A large portion of the deaths are people getting knocked to the ground and their head hitting first so they die. Both men and women are capable of that. 
2: No matter how unarmed someone sees, they could be armed. Someone could swing at you with what seems like a closed fist, and when they strike you discover there was a pen , a stiletto, a kubotan or a knife in their hands. Or they have some mace on them and after spraying you follow up with whatever, that you can't respond to. I guess my point is just because you don't know that they're armed, doesn't mean they're unarmed.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 18, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> There's two issues with this statement. 1: You might end up dead because an unarmed woman is trying to hit you. Check out reddit's sub watchpeopledie (I think that's the sub name). A large portion of the deaths are people getting knocked to the ground and their head hitting first so they die. Both men and women are capable of that.
> 2: No matter how unarmed someone sees, they could be armed. Someone could swing at you with what seems like a closed fist, and when they strike you discover there was a pen , a stiletto, a kubotan or a knife in their hands. Or they have some mace on them and after spraying you follow up with whatever, that you can't respond to. I guess my point is just because you don't know that they're armed, doesn't mean they're unarmed.


First, thanks for the well thought out reply. To your fist point, I think I will take my chances regarding the probability of being knocked out by a woman. To be clear, just because I'm not keen on striking them does not mean I'm not defending myself.

To your second point, I agree you can't always know what they are holding. I think it's a good point to consider as anyone following this threads considers moral self-defense.

With that said, if I'm unaware of the existence of a weapon, I'm not sure that is helpful. If I think they are unarmed, I'm not likely to hit them period. But that doesn't mean I'm allowing myself to take damage.

If I become aware of a weapon, that will likely change my approach to solving the problem. What I'm not going to do is elbow every woman who might try to take a swing at me, just in case they are armed.

For me it isn't always about surviving, rather it's about how I chose to live my life.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> First, thanks for the well thought out reply. To your fist point, I think I will take my chances regarding the probability of being knocked out by a woman. To be clear, just because I'm not keen on striking them does not mean I'm not defending myself.
> 
> To your second point, I agree you can't always know what they are holding. I think it's a good point to consider as anyone following this threads considers moral self-defense.
> 
> ...


I think a good portion of your view depends on how good you are at grappling. If you're a sambo/judo/bjj/jjj/wrestling/shooto expert then yeah you can get away with not hitting them and focusing on grappling to limit your own tisk. If you haven't practiced an art th at focuses on grappling, then becaide of your own deficiency the best option may be to strike if there's a possibility of them having a weapon on them (even if you don't see it). 

That's not really a man vs. Woman thing though. In general if you know how to grapple that's the better option since you're less likely to end up with a mansalughter or assault charge. But if you don't have that skillset, it's more important (imo) to make sure you stay alive and safe than worry about your own honor or legal standing


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 18, 2022)

Women in Bars can be vicious too. I've seen a Woman put a glass into someone's face. I've personally never beat a woman but in such a case where she tried to Main & seriously wound me I would make sure she got a good beating.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 18, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I think a good portion of your view depends on how good you are at grappling. If you're a sambo/judo/bjj/jjj/wrestling/shooto expert then yeah you can get away with not hitting them and focusing on grappling to limit your own tisk. If you haven't practiced an art th at focuses on grappling, then becaide of your own deficiency the best option may be to strike if there's a possibility of them having a weapon on them (even if you don't see it).
> 
> That's not really a man vs. Woman thing though. In general if you know how to grapple that's the better option since you're less likely to end up with a mansalughter or assault charge. But if you don't have that skillset, it's more important (imo) to make sure you stay alive and safe than worry about your own honor or legal standing


I am thankful for my background in primarily judo and Sambo. It has served me very well. I agree with you.

Although while their could be exceptions, generally a guy even with low skill is at little risk when a woman swings on him. Most women don't have the bone structure or hand size, or training to throw powerful bare knuckle strikes. Untrained kicks are likely to do little to no damage. 

I guess it's okay to imagine a weightlifting, army ranger, MMA female fighter attacking you, but this scenario is possible, but extremely, extremely unlikely.

Regardless at 6'3" 210, I'm likely to have a significant physical advantage, regardless of a females skill level. In addition, I'm not a fragile person. 😊


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 18, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Women in Bars can be vicious too. I've seen a Woman put a glass into someone's face. I've personally never beat a woman but in such a case where she tried to Main & seriously wound me I would make sure she got a good beating.


Again, per the original post, I'm talking about an unarmed woman. I do agree they can be vicious.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I am thankful for my background in primarily judo and Sambo. It has served me very well. I agree with you.
> 
> Although while their could be exceptions, generally a guy even with low skill is at little risk when a woman swings on him. Most women don't have the bone structure or hand size, or training to throw powerful bare knuckle strikes. Untrained kicks are likely to do little to no damage.
> 
> ...


You are assuming, as you mention here, a woman without training. While based on personal experience most people that train are men, that's not a guarantee. And a trained low kick, high kick, jab or cross can do quite a bit of damage, regardless of gender.

I guess that part of this may be I'm a 5'7 man who weighs, with extensive weight training, 150 pounds. But a trained women has an advantage if I'm unwilling to throw punches. And if you add the extra things I mentioned (them being trained, having hidden weapons, or other advantages), it's stupid in terms of self-defense and family-defense to refuse to strike them.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 18, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> You are assuming, as you mention here, a woman without training. While based on personal experience most people that train are men, that's not a guarantee. And a trained low kick, high kick, jab or cross can do quite a bit of damage, regardless of gender.
> 
> I guess that part of this may be I'm a 5'7 man who weighs, with extensive weight training, 150 pounds. But a trained women has an advantage if I'm unwilling to throw punches. And if you add the extra things I mentioned (them being trained, having hidden weapons, or other advantages), it's stupid in terms of self-defense and family-defense to refuse to strike them.


I can agree that the safest route is to maximize what you are legally allowed to do. Smash their nose, break an eye socket, crack a rib. I can't argue against this being the safest course of action.

However, life is all about establishing prioritize. Survival ranks high on my priority list, but it is rarely my highest priority. Risk management is also not about eliminating all risk. It's about evaluating risk in light of your goals. 

Calling it stupid is only viewing it through one lense.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 18, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> having hidden weapons


Women mostly attack using something in their Hand. A sharp Object, anything within reach. Very few will try to punch a grown man.
I remember a friend of mine got into an argument & punched a guy, his woman attacked him with a stilletto shoe. That can take out an eye.
I've also had a woman stamp on my upper foot with such a shoe. It hurt but luckily didn't puncture my shoe. So again not many will attack a man like square on without a weapon.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 18, 2022)

Believe me it happens 








						Woman Stabs a Guy in the Eye with her Stiletto Heel
					

A U.K. woman has avoided jail time after stabbing a man in the eye with her Christian Louboutin heel.




					mix957gr.com


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I can agree that the safest route is to maximize what you are legally allowed to do. Smash their nose, break an eye socket, crack a rib. I can't argue against this being the safest course of action.
> 
> However, life is all about establishing prioritize. Survival ranks high on my priority list, but it is rarely my highest priority. Risk management is also not about eliminating all risk. It's about evaluating risk in light of your goals.
> 
> Calling it stupid is only viewing it through one lense.


What is higher than survival on your priority list? Outside of the survival of my wife, and if I had kids their survival, I find it difficult to imagine ranking something higher. Maybe I'm just selfish.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 18, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> What is higher than survival on your priority list? Outside of the survival of my wife, and if I had kids their survival, I find it difficult to imagine ranking something higher. Maybe I'm just selfish.


I set multiple things above survival. But I'm also not scared of a woman with a shoe. This decision is not a death sentence.


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## Steve (Sep 19, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> What is higher than survival on your priority list? Outside of the survival of my wife, and if I had kids their survival, I find it difficult to imagine ranking something higher. Maybe I'm just selfish.


I think there's a middle ground here.  There's a lot of judgement and context involved.  I mean, sure, we can see danger around every corner.  But I think most people will accept some degree of personal risk in order to help someone else.  I've been physically assaulted by an unreasonable woman before, and I didn't punch her.  I restrained her so that she didn't hurt me or anyone else, including herself.  I suppose I could legally have punched her in the face, but that is, frankly, a repugnant thought for me.  And to be sure, she may have stabbed me or something.  Fortunately for us both, that didn't happen.  

So, we can say that there is a third possibility.  If you over respond, you might not be dead or in jail, but by your actions, the other person might be seriously injured, dead, or possibly in jail (because you failed to deescalate the situation).

As a result of what I believe is a very reasonable, common perspective on this topic, I get to go through life not carrying guns or visualizing punching women in the face.  Still pretty safe, not doing crazy things that are likely to put me or my family at risk.  But also, I believe, a little healthier and happier.


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## TularosaKungFu (Sep 20, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Take "woman" out, and would you say the same about men?


No?!? Duh? I don't even get what planet the question came from.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 20, 2022)

TularosaKungFu said:


> No?!? Duh? I don't even get what planet the question came from.


I kind of expected that.


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## Steve (Sep 20, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Take "woman" out, and would you say the same about men?


Well, now I'm completely lost.  You understood that?


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## lklawson (Sep 21, 2022)

TularosaKungFu said:


> No?!? Duh? I don't even get what planet the question came from.





Gerry Seymour said:


> I kind of expected that.





Steve said:


> Well, now I'm completely lost.  You understood that?


The entire basis of this thread is silly and unserious.  It hardly deserves serious responses.  Think of it as a joke thread.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 21, 2022)

lklawson said:


> The entire basis of this thread is silly and unserious.  It hardly deserves serious responses.  Think of it as a joke thread.


It's a great topic! Sweating the details regarding what you are willing to do is a worthwhile topic.


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## lklawson (Sep 21, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> It's a great topic! Sweating the details regarding what you are willing to do is a worthwhile topic.


Disagree.  The subject stated is "Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?"  But the truth is that it is reductive to "Can a woman be dangerous enough to seriously hurt you?"  The answer is obviously yes and only a doofus would argue that there aren't any circumstances where a woman could seriously hurt a man, even were she "unarmed."  The rest that follows is just foolishness.  The entire basis of the thread is fundamentally unserious unless you are presupposing a bunch of knuckle-draggers from the 1950's and therefore doesn't merit serious answers.  It's a joke thread.  Frankly, I'm shocked that it lasted 1 page, never mind 7.


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## Cynik75 (Sep 21, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Women mostly attack using something in their Hand.


Any researches and statistics? Or it just your belief?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 21, 2022)

Cynik75 said:


> Any researches and statistics? Or it just your belief?


my experiences & so better than statistics in the internet.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 21, 2022)

lklawson said:


> Disagree.  The subject stated is "Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?"  But the truth is that it is reductive to "Can a woman be dangerous enough to seriously hurt you?"  The answer is obviously yes and only a doofus would argue that there aren't any circumstances where a woman could seriously hurt a man, even were she "unarmed."  The rest that follows is just foolishness.  The entire basis of the thread is fundamentally unserious unless you are presupposing a bunch of knuckle-draggers from the 1950's and therefore doesn't merit serious answers.  It's a joke thread.  Frankly, I'm shocked that it lasted 1 page, never mind 7.


Disagree also. But that's just an opinion from a doofus I guess.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 21, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Disagree also. But that's just an opinion from a doofus I guess.


i actually knew a woman who was a female wrestler. she was definetly a bit crazy with alcohol..lol  
I ended up wrestling with her in bed after a party... now that was dangerous !


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## drop bear (Sep 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> What is higher than survival on your priority list? Outside of the survival of my wife, and if I had kids their survival, I find it difficult to imagine ranking something higher. Maybe I'm just selfish.



It is a trade off. 

You are basically discussing the better to be judged by 12 stuff.

Which is fine if the trade off is that or death.

But if the trade off isn't death. Then going to court. Or mutilating someone is a crappy trade off. 

You can nullify a threat without hurting people. This is quite often how positional advantage works. And ironically positional advantage makes you more efficient at hurting people. 

So it quite often winds up that the best choice is also the more moral choice.


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## drop bear (Sep 21, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> i actually knew a woman who was a female wrestler. she was definetly a bit crazy with alcohol..lol
> I ended up wrestling with her in bed after a party... now that was dangerous !



I can't deal with that. I just can never figure out whether I should be romancing her or just going for the sub.


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## drop bear (Sep 21, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> my experiences & so better than statistics in the internet.


Here is the best example of personal experience vs scientific method. And why we shouldn't really trust personal experience.


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## Steve (Sep 21, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Here is the best example of personal experience vs scientific method. And why we shouldn't really trust personal experience.


You've shared this video before, I think.  Good video.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Here is the best example of personal experience vs scientific method. And why we shouldn't really trust personal experience.


Well ...it's kept me alive until now.
You can think about your theories & scientific data as your skull is being stomped or gutted like a fish. Sorry but just nonsense


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Ok we're talking about women on here but still...how much time do you have on the streets to figure out the scientific answer?
I'm thinking some of you've never been in any Situation that's dangerous otherwise you wouldn't write about scientific data. A normal day in London...


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## Cynik75 (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> my experiences & so better than statistics in the internet.


My personal experience is different. Let me count... I was in 4 altercations with women (once with group of 5 or 6) and all of them were without any kind of weapon. I was in more than 50 street fights with men and more than half of them were armed with bats, bottles, chains, knuckledusters, belts or nighticks (but once police officer smashed my nose with bare hand ).
 I was an punk rocker/ sharp skinhead/ antiifa guy in '90 in Poland.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Cynik75 said:


> My personal experience is different. Let me count... I was in 4 altercations with women (once with group of 5 or 6) and all of them were without any kind of weapon. I was in more than 50 street fights with men and more than half of them were armed with bats, bottles, chains, knuckledusters, belts or nighticks (but once police officer smashed my nose with bare hand ).
> I was an punk rocker/ sharp skinhead/ antiifa guy in '90 in Poland.


Nastrovje!
It's the Vodka 😃
Check out this guy. He's a champ..never spilt a drop 🤣🤣


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

But on a serious note..drunk women are insane. They change from being a quite little mouse into a "raging tiger"


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Check these girls out.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Woman attacks with a car bumper ..now that's original


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## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Well ...it's kept me alive until now.
> You can think about your theories & scientific data as your skull is being stomped or gutted like a fish. Sorry but just nonsense




Everyone alive is alive until now. What kept them alive?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Everyone alive is alive until now. What kept them alive?


A lot of factors, Lifestyle,  environment.


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## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> A lot of factors, Lifestyle,  environment.



So then how do you know your method is definitive?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> So then how do you know your method is definitive?


You're  confused.🙂
I never mentioned once that it was my method.


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## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> You're  confused.🙂
> I never mentioned once that it was my method.





Jimmythebull said:


> my experiences & so better than statistics in the internet.


How do you know your experiences are definitive?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> How do you know your experiences are definitive?


How long is a piece of string?


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Ok we're talking about women on here but still...how much time do you have on the streets to figure out the scientific answer?
> I'm thinking some of you've never been in any Situation that's dangerous otherwise you wouldn't write about scientific data. A normal day in London...


I think you entirely misunderstand how data should be used. You don't stop in the moment and analyze some stats to figure out your next move (which is the strawman you present in this and another post).

You use the data to determine what your training should look like, and what habits to work on building. Relying on personal experience only for that means you are never prepared for anything you haven't yet experienced.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> You use the data to determine what your training should look like, and what habits to work on building. Relying on personal experience only for that means you are never prepared for anything you haven't yet experienced.


OK Gerry can you now tell me what will happen in your next street fight? will you know what to prepare for?
To quote an expression used in the British army , "always expect the unexpected"  
personal experienes teach you how to overcome a situation. If i punch you on the nose will you let me do it again? no you´ll have the experience of pain & so you will move your *** & defend yourself. 
all this theory is fine but real life action is better.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> OK Gerry can you now tell me what will happen in your next street fight? will you know what to prepare for?
> To quote an expression used in the British army , "always expect the unexpected"
> personal experienes teach you how to overcome a situation. If i punch you on the nose will you let me do it again? no you´ll have the experience of pain & so you will move your *** & defend yourself.
> all this theory is fine but real life action is better.


Again, you're presenting a strawman. Nobody has claimed you can guess what will happen in the next fight. But you can find out to some extent what is likely in general, and what is not.

As for the unexpected, that's basic problem solving in your trainng. And if you don't expect it, it's not predicted by your personal experience, either, is it?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Again, you're presenting a strawman. Nobody has claimed you can guess what will happen in the next fight. But you can find out to some extent what is likely in general, and what is not.
> 
> As for the unexpected, that's basic problem solving in your trainng. And if you don't expect it, it's not predicted by your personal experience, either, is it?


OK Gerry how many real fights have you had in your life? not talking bally dancing in a dojo but a serious punch up outside. I am willing to bet zero.  I am not being insulting before you jump on your mod button but it´s my opinion. I can pretty much tell by peoples posts if they know or not.


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## Gerry Seymour (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> OK Gerry how many real fights have you had in your life? not talking bally dancing in a dojo but a serious punch up outside. I am willing to bet zero.  I am not being insulting before you jump on your mod button but it´s my opinion. I can pretty much tell by peoples posts if they know or not.


Think what you like.

I've managed to avoid most of them in my adult life, even when working the door at a bar and security at a courthouse. I didn't avoid so well in my teens.

EDIT: I'll also point out you're now trying to make this about my experience, rather than ther topic. The point you're arguing against was brought up by someone with far more "real life" experience than I'll ever have. And you dismissed it from him, too.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Think what you like.


I will & do but please don´t throw your teddy in the corner. 
I served 9 years in the army & 7 years armed security for the army . I am not some Geek who sits playing games Gerry. I´ve never said i know better but from my experiences i disagree with your theory stuff. you put too much weight on it.


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## OLD DOG NEW TRICKS (Sep 22, 2022)

Wow, tough question. I would try my best to walk away fast. If I couldn't walk I would deflect her strikes without striking her if possible. If she was on me like a monkey on a cupcake I would use a wrist lock or similar hold to stop her until I could walk away fast. The circumstances are such it is impossible to predict. Walk away fast is my best answer,  before you have witnesses.  😆


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## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> OK Gerry how many real fights have you had in your life? not talking bally dancing in a dojo but a serious punch up outside. I am willing to bet zero.  I am not being insulting before you jump on your mod button but it´s my opinion. I can pretty much tell by peoples posts if they know or not.


No you can't. 

Which is the point of personal experience.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> No you can't.
> 
> Which is the point of personal experience.


ah..but i can read between the lines.


----------



## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> ah..but i can read between the lines.



You think you can.

And statistically you will be right most of the time because most people haven't been in a bunch of fights. But there is no been in a bunch of fights type.

That is a myth.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> But there is no been in a bunch of fights type.


OK i can only chuckle here. No disrespect intended but ....


----------



## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> ah..but i can read between the lines.



The reading between the lines is quite often an act. So people who want to be seen as operators will act like they think operators act.

If you could just tell then SCARS for example would never have gotten anywhere near the SEALS.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> The reading between the lines is quite often an act. So people who want to be seen as operators will act like they think operators act.
> 
> If you could just tell then SCARS for example would never have gotten anywhere near the SEALS.


you are now rambling on about something else here.


----------



## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> you are now rambling on about something else here.


I am rambling about the same thing. Being a bad *** is as much about the performance as it is about the ability.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I am rambling about the same thing. Being a bad *** is as much about the performance as it is about the ability.


well you certainly have to have the ability to "perform" but i think you mistake real life fighting with hollywood BS.


----------



## drop bear (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> well you certainly have to have the ability to "perform" but i think you mistake real life fighting with hollywood BS.



Why do you say that?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 22, 2022)

Why are you guys arguing over punching a woman with no arms? How will you even know if it’s an actual cis woman? I guess @Jimmythebull would be trying to find out for sure based on previous posts. Jimmy, it’s not fair to try to sub a person with no arms, cis woman or otherwise.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 22, 2022)




----------



## Gerry Seymour (Sep 22, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> I will & do but please don´t throw your teddy in the corner.
> I served 9 years in the army & 7 years armed security for the army . I am not some Geek who sits playing games Gerry. I´ve never said i know better but from my experiences i disagree with your theory stuff. you put too much weight on it.


Do you think the military uses individual experience to plan their training? Or some analysis of more information beyond each individual soldier’s experience?


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Do you think the military uses individual experience to plan their training? Or some analysis of more information beyond each individual soldier’s experience?


They use intelligence gathered & experiences on the ground. The senior NCOs decide on the ground & a situation can change very quickly so without experience you're in trouble.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

Right this is a good example of lack of experience. Senior  infantry Sgts course. The guy being screamed at failed the course at the end. He didn't have the experience to sort out the situations which as I said can change rapidly.  Such as casulties wounded men & control everything around him. Without experienced platoon Sgts people will die.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

And if anyone thinks a woman can't give a beating 😁 Bob got a good thrashing here


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## drop bear (Sep 23, 2022)

Ok. How does someone discern real experience from someone just making stuff up?


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Ok. How does someone discern real experience from someone just making stuff up?


----------



## drop bear (Sep 23, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> View attachment 28933



So you don't know?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Sep 23, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> They use intelligence gathered & experiences on the ground. The senior NCOs decide on the ground & a situation can change very quickly so without experience you're in trouble.


Exactly. They use that intelligence gathered. Part of which is analysis of data. And a lot of the training is based on what's most likely, based on collective experience (not the experience of one indvidual) as documented. That stuff you said was too geeky because you're ex-military.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> That stuff you said was too geeky because you're ex-military.


maybe you just don´t understand Gerry


----------



## lklawson (Sep 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Why are you guys arguing over punching a woman with no arms? How will you even know if it’s an actual cis woman?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Sep 23, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> maybe you just don´t understand Gerry


Perhaps, though it’s more likely you are stuck on an indefensible point.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Perhaps, though it’s more likely you are stuck on an indefensible point.


or maybe a justifiable point ?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Sep 24, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> or maybe a justifiable point ?


Seems unlikely.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Sep 25, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Seems unlikely that I'm correct


Very likely Gerry bro 🤣


----------



## TularosaKungFu (Sep 28, 2022)

lklawson said:


> The entire basis of this thread is silly and unserious.  It hardly deserves serious responses.  Think of it as a joke thread.


Oh i didn't know it was kids make dumb on purpose? Bye


----------



## donald1 (Oct 5, 2022)

Should I stand there and let her attack me? I'm assuming this question is directed towards men and the idea that "men don't hit woman". If a woman can hit a man, she should expect him to hit back. 

In all fairness, if your scared of hurting a woman... I mean, she likely isn't afraid of hurting the dude she's attacking, but I digress. I'm sure most of us know how to handle an attacker with minimal harm to ourselves or the aggressor if your really insistent on not hurting them. 

That being said, sure. I'm willing to hit someone that's attacking me, if needed, regardless of gender.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 8, 2022)

I can't even finish reading this thread, so much wrong with it.  Apart from one poster, Dirty Dog, I've never read so much rubbish. What on earth is in some of your heads? 😠


----------



## Steve (Oct 8, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I can't even finish reading this thread, so much wrong with it.  Apart from one poster, Dirty Dog, I've never read so much rubbish. What on earth is in some of your heads? 😠


We aren’t playing the blame game.  But if we were, I think it’s clearly @Gerry Seymour ’s fault.  Way to go, @Gerry Seymour, screwed it up for everyone.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 8, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> I will & do but please don´t throw your teddy in the corner.
> I served 9 years in the army & 7 years armed security for the army . I am not some Geek who sits playing games Gerry. I´ve never said i know better but from my experiences i disagree with your theory stuff. you put too much weight on it.


MPGS. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Jimmythebull (Oct 8, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> MPGS. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


No


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 8, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Right this is a good example of lack of experience. Senior  infantry Sgts course. The guy being screamed at failed the course at the end. He didn't have the experience to sort out the situations which as I said can change rapidly.  Such as casulties wounded men & control everything around him. Without experienced platoon Sgts people will die.


Well that's a blast from the dim and distant past.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 8, 2022)

Steve said:


> We aren’t playing the blame game.  But if we were, I think it’s clearly @Gerry Seymour ’s fault.  Way to go, @Gerry Seymour, screwed it up for everyone.


🤣


----------



## KenpoMaster805 (Oct 8, 2022)

if a Girl is armed i will not hit her but ill defend my self and then report her to a police if she hits  me


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## Jimmythebull (Oct 9, 2022)

Steve said:


> We aren’t playing the blame game.  But if we were, I think it’s clearly @Gerry Seymour ’s fault.  Way to go, @Gerry Seymour, screwed it up for everyone.


🤣


----------



## Gyakuto (Oct 9, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I can't even finish reading this thread, so much wrong with it.  Apart from one poster, Dirty Dog, I've never read so much rubbish. What on earth is in some of your heads? 😠


Please do elaborate.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 9, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> well you certainly have to have the ability to "perform" but i think you mistake real life fighting with hollywood BS.


How do you differentiate? Where to you draw the line of a real-life fight and a non-real-life fight?


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 9, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> But on a serious note..drunk women are insane. They change from being a quite little mouse into a "raging tiger"


Yep.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 9, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> How do you differentiate? Where to you draw the line of a real-life fight and a non-real-life fight?


I am being quite serious @Jimmythebull . I want to hear your explanation.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 9, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> I am being quite serious @Jimmythebull . I want to hear your explanation.


ask me a serious question & i´ll answer, honestly i was not even going to respond here.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 9, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> ask me a serious question & i´ll answer, honestly i was not even going to respond here.


I am trying to. I did but it seems you do not want to answer.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> No
> View attachment 29057


Oh my dear, I'm neither stupid nor a boy.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 15, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Oh my dear, I'm neither stupid nor a boy.


Don't throw your teddy in the corner 
It was a joke


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 15, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Don't throw your teddy in the corner
> It was a joke


 I wasn't I was pointing out what is obvious to some posters but not you so give your head a wobble and stop being so up yourself. You've been here 2 minutes and think you own the place. 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 15, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Don't throw your teddy in the corner
> It was a joke


Stop, drop, and roll.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 15, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Oh my dear, I'm neither stupid nor a boy.


Get em. He can take it.


----------



## Gyakuto (Oct 16, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Don't throw your teddy in the corner
> It was a joke


You use this caption quite a bit, and saying “it’s just a joke“ attached to another school yard insult suggests several possibilities:

1) You are unable to accept a good argument.
2) You are unable to construct an intelligent counter-argument.
3) You are uncouth, boorish and a bit childish.

When most of us meet such people in real life, we walk away and avoid them in future. Here, we have to use the ‘ignore’ button. 

‘IGNORE’!


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 16, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> You are unable to accept a good argument.
> 2) You are unable to construct an intelligent counter-argument.
> 3) You are uncouth, boorish and a bit childish.


And it could just be that I have a sense of humor & you don't 🤣


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 16, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I wasn't I was pointing out what is obvious to some posters but not you so give your head a wobble and stop being so up yourself. You've been here 2 minutes and think you own the place. 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 16, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> And it could just be that I have a sense of humor & you don't 🤣


Uh oh. Not the I’m funny and you aren’t…. @PhotonGuy will be showing up to be the arbiter of what is or isn’t funny. Btw my comedic timing sucks, just ask him when he gets here.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> You use this caption quite a bit, and saying “it’s just a joke“ attached to another school yard insult suggests several possibilities:
> 
> 1) You are unable to accept a good argument.
> 2) You are unable to construct an intelligent counter-argument.
> ...


The poster is ex army, a squaddie, he thinks what he says is 'banter', it's not. I've had to investigate many cases of 'banter' which is absolutely bullying and in one case led to a suicide. The bully says something which is either insulting, mocking or downright nasty then when people complain or remonstrate they turn round and say 'it's just a joke'. Then they accuse people of having no sense of humour. Standard behaviour for these types and exactly as you point out in your post. All his posts are following the standard and predicted course of the personality you describe. I can even predict the reply to this post, not that I'll bother reading lol.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 17, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> The poster is ex army, a squaddie, he thinks what he says is 'banter', it's not. I've had to investigate many cases of 'banter' which is absolutely bullying and in one case led to a suicide. The bully says something which is either insulting, mocking or downright nasty then when people complain or remonstrate they turn round and say 'it's just a joke'. Then they accuse people of having no sense of humour. Standard behaviour for these types and exactly as you point out in your post. All his posts are following the standard and predicted course of the personality you describe. I can even predict the reply to this post, not that I'll bother reading lol.


you told me to go give my head a wobble, is that not bullying? are you not mobbing me out here with a couple of members? telling me i should.......

"go wobble your head, you´ve been here 2 minutes". what if i feel suicidle?? oh but wait you´re a woman aren´t you ? 
Remember you started writing to me on here. 
Also to the young lady in question: do not write i am an ex "Squaddie" people like me find this an insult.  ex soldier is the term used not guttural sexist slang.

@ the mods on here:
 posting pictures of well trained cross fit girls is not sexist. It´s not my fault they look good and not like a 70 year old.


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 17, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> The poster is ex army, a squaddie, he thinks what he says is 'banter', it's not. I've had to investigate many cases of 'banter' which is absolutely bullying and in one case led to a suicide. The bully says something which is either insulting, mocking or downright nasty then when people complain or remonstrate they turn round and say 'it's just a joke'. Then they accuse people of having no sense of humour. Standard behaviour for these types and exactly as you point out in your post. All his posts are following the standard and predicted course of the personality you describe. I can even predict the reply to this post, not that I'll bother reading lol.


The convenience and irony of being a verbal bully on a virtual martial arts talk forum is hopefully not lost on anyone? Tez3 you seem to be a nice respectful lady, you are correct in labeling the behavior as bullying.

I think Jimmythebull has some good insight, and I would overall enjoy hearing what he has to say, but unfortunately he can not maintain grown up diolag. If he humbled himself and apologized to everyone, at least from me, he would find a genuine warm reception.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> The convenience and irony of being a verbal bully on a virtual martial arts talk forum is hopefully not lost on anyone? Tez3 you seem to be a nice respectful lady, you are correct in labeling the behavior as bullying.
> 
> I think Jimmythebull has some good insight, and I would overall enjoy hearing what he has to say, but unfortunately he can not maintain grown up diolag. If he humbled himself and apologized to everyone, at least from me, he would find a genuine warm reception.


Thank you, me being respectful depends entirely on whether the other poster is respectful in turn. In person it's easier for most people to tell from body language, facial expressions and voice tone what the words actually mean. Without a lot of emoji just reading the written word can be difficult, you see it on social media all the time. Some people don't even read the posts properly so their answers make no sense. 
Too many people respond to being disagreed not with a reasoned argument but with abuse or accusations of being upset or angry. The other way of course is by belittling people with so called jokes or pretend numerous comments. They never realise it says more about them than anything.
The suicide I mentioned was a case at an army infantry training centre where a recruit as he was entitled to applied to leave. He was given permission but while he waited the couple of weeks for the discharge to go through he was in guard duty. The Cpls. in charge thought it was fun to engage in what they called banter to keep telling him was staying in the army for every, that they knew he wasn't getting out, etc. After a few days of this, he went out on a camp patrol with another soldier both armed. At the back of the guardroom coming back, the lad in front heard a shot and spun round to find the other lad shot himself. Afterwards the Cpls, said it was said in fun, only joking.......


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> you told me to go give my head a wobble, is that not bullying? are you not mobbing me out here with a couple of members? telling me i should.......
> 
> "go wobble your head, you´ve been here 2 minutes". what if i feel suicidle?? oh but wait you´re a woman aren´t you ?
> Remember you started writing to me on here.
> ...


Squaddie is a term used freely where I am....by squaddies male and female. I could have called you a pongo (the RAF officially called the army cargo but there you go) but I didnt. Don't pretend it's an insult or sexist. It's not, have a look at Arrse.  I worked with the Army for over 20 years, lived in the Garrison nearly 40, so yeah give your head a wobble. Before that I was in RAF and worked with various units including Bootnecks and Paras, as well as other country's militaries, finished in MoD, then went on to another MoD career.
I didn't 'start writing to you' I posted up just as everyone else has. Don't like it, use the ignore button. It's easy, there's no need to be over emotional.




__





						Squaddie - ARRSEpedia
					






					www.arrse.co.uk


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 17, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Squaddie is a term used freely where I am....by squaddies male and female. I could have called you a pongo (the RAF officially called the army cargo but there you go) but I didnt. Don't pretend it's an insult or sexist. It's not, have a look at Arrse.  I worked with the Army for over 20 years, lived in the Garrison nearly 40, so yeah give your head a wobble. Before that I was in RAF and worked with various units including Bootnecks and Paras, as well as other country's militaries, finished in MoD, then went on to another MoD career.
> I didn't 'start writing to you' I posted up just as everyone else has. Don't like it, use the ignore button. It's easy, there's no need to be over emotional.
> 
> 
> ...


You're insulting me again ! 
Squaddies. Meaning: (Noun) A squaddy or squaddies is *a term used to describe a person in the lowest military rank*. It is British slang that's popular and is sometimes used as an insult.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> You're insulting me again !
> Squaddies. Meaning: (Noun) A squaddy or squaddies is *a term used to describe a person in the lowest military rank*. It is British slang that's popular and is sometimes used as an insult.


Wow, that's a wonderful post, amazing, brilliant, staggering wit.
It's very clear intelligence has been chasing you for a long time, please stop and let it catch you up.


----------



## Jimmythebull (Oct 17, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Wow, that's a wonderful post, amazing, brilliant, staggering wit.
> It's very clear intelligence has been chasing you for a long time, please stop and let it catch you up.


Plea


Tez3 said:


> Wow, that's a wonderful post, amazing, brilliant, staggering wit.
> It's very clear intelligence has been chasing you for a long time, please stop and let it catch you up.


Se stop harassing me on here. I feel threatend.  I suffer from panic attacks !


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Plea
> 
> Se stop harassing me on here. I feel threatend.  I suffer from panic attacks !


Oh dear how sad never mind.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> You're insulting me again !
> Squaddies. Meaning: (Noun) A squaddy or squaddies is *a term used to describe a person in the lowest military rank*. It is British slang that's popular and is sometimes used as an insult.


From the Arrse link I posted.
When a civilian joins the Army, they become a 'squaddie'. After their service is terminated they seldom return to civilisation in their former guise and are transformed in to ex-squaddies rather than returning civilians.

*This of course depends on one's service. Those with a positive experience show pride in the usage of the word, whereas someone with an axe to grind or who has something to hide might choose not to be associated with the Army and thus not refer to themselves as an 'ex-squaddie'.*


Taxonomy​A squaddie is not a role or position as such, it's a state of mind. There are two basic people types: Squaddies and non-Squaddies (civvies). Many civvies show signs of squaddidom (such as drinking to excess, masturbating regularly and telling sick jokes), but unless you serve you can never truly be referred as a real squaddie.

Please note that the title squaddie is not given on learning The Basics on pass out, but after a period of bezzing and skiffing within the Regiment.


----------



## Darren (Oct 17, 2022)

I am of the opinion that a man never hits a woman never ever!!!!!  Given that nature has given differences to each I could never ever run worth a $500 dollar bill does not mean I will not protect myself!!! Had this girl pick up a rock once she was going to bash my head in with it did not turn my back to her but begged and begged and begged some more for her to please put the rock down when that did not work I put her down on her back she then dropped the rock. This guy was standing right across the street watching the whole thing this was back in the 70’s and the guy was old enough back then when men had more respect for women then they do today!!!!! He came over and asked what happened so told him the story he agreed that I had done the right thing does not mean it still does not bother me cause it does!!!! Even though it was the right thing to do!!!!


----------



## Darren (Oct 17, 2022)

RedDevil said:


> I've never hit a woman. I think I would feel bad about it.


For the rest of your life!!!!!!!


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

RedDevil said:


> What has this got to do with martial arts and the thread?
> Are such disgusting comments allowed on here?


It's a quote, which I said, from a British army site and why would you think it's disgusting? It's normal human behaviour.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 17, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> Please do elaborate.


Ok. The question itself is wrong, designed to get a certain type of answer.
It's not about gender but what is the appropriate action if attacked by anyone. Hitting is not always the best way forward, any technique you use has to be within the law of the land. In the UK law you are allowed to use reasonable force, to use a pre-emptive move if you are in fear of your life, that includes using a weapon. 
There's plenty of threads on here detailing action/techniques to use, running away is sometimes an option, verbal judo another  but when attacked, no one's gender is relevant, just your life is. Phrasing a question the way this one is phrased is missing all the points and reasons for self defence, one of them being awareness of your situation. Clearly that's a technique missing from some people's martial arts armoury. So, self defence techniques for all situations discussion follows in................


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 17, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> you told me to go give my head a wobble, is that not bullying? are you not mobbing me out here with a couple of members? telling me i should.......
> 
> "go wobble your head, you´ve been here 2 minutes". what if i feel suicidle?? oh but wait you´re a woman aren´t you ?
> Remember you started writing to me on here.
> ...


Oh come on. Don’t throw your teddy in the corner just cuz you got a bite. I don’t mind your banter but harden up.


----------



## Martial D (Oct 17, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> You mean like Sean Connery style? No way man! Knife welding? Without hesitation. The real question is would you hit a pregnant man?


I'm gonna risk the ire of the alphabet squad and say there's no such creature.

As for the question, I recall I was in grade 7. 12 years old. Some girl in grade 6.. much smaller..wanted to fight me. I let her hit me several times...perplexed at how to react, until finally she stopped and walked off. I learned a lesson that day.

If someone wants to use violence it ceases..at that moment..to matter what genitals they happen to have.


----------



## kitkatninja (Oct 17, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?



I think Deadpool said/asked it best...


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 17, 2022)

kitkatninja said:


> I think Deadpool said/asked it best...


That guy is definitely not my role model. 😊 In all seriousness, I don't understand how people let movies, pop culture and current society set their values.

I understand you are just sharing a meme, but I do think people to readily modify their morals based on what society at large says.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 17, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> That guy is definitely not my role model. 😊 In all seriousness, I don't understand how people let movies, pop culture and current society set their values.
> 
> I understand you are just sharing a meme, but I do think people to readily modify their morals based on what society at large says.


I agree with you, but movies, pop culture and current society are not setting everyone's values. Now, if you consider these things causing much of mass change in the women's culture then I get where you are coming from. 

I don't see sex if you are coming at me with a knife.


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 17, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> I agree with you, but movies, pop culture and current society are not setting everyone's values. Now, if you consider these things causing much of mass change in the women's culture then I get where you are coming from.
> 
> I don't see sex if you are coming at me with a knife.


My original post intentionally attempted to direct the conversation to an unarmed attack.


----------



## Steve (Oct 17, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> That guy is definitely not my role model. 😊 In all seriousness, I don't understand how people let movies, pop culture and current society set their values.
> 
> I understand you are just sharing a meme, but I do think people to readily modify their morals based on what society at large says.


Do you have in mind that someone watched Deadpool and… sorry what exactly?


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> My original post intentionally attempted to direct the conversation to an unarmed attack.


An unarmed attack by a woman though, why would that be different from an unarmed attack by a man? You still have to respond using reasonable force otherwise you will be the one being charged by the police. Hitting someone isn't always the best solution, we've all read about those one punch fights that end with a dead person because that one punch caused them to fall hitting their head. Proportionate action is always the answer to any attack by anyone. Now, that action has been discussed many times here but it's always worth another. Take gender out of the discussion and it's a worthwhile exercise.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 18, 2022)

Darren said:


> I am of the opinion that a man never hits a woman never ever!!!!!  Given that nature has given differences to each I could never ever run worth a $500 dollar bill does not mean I will not protect myself!!! Had this girl pick up a rock once she was going to bash my head in with it did not turn my back to her but begged and begged and begged some more for her to please put the rock down when that did not work I put her down on her back she then dropped the rock. This guy was standing right across the street watching the whole thing this was back in the 70’s and the guy was old enough back then when men had more respect for women then they do today!!!!! He came over and asked what happened so told him the story he agreed that I had done the right thing does not mean it still does not bother me cause it does!!!! Even though it was the right thing to do!!!!


I think it would bother you if it were a man too.  An altercation with anyone causes an adrenaline rush, the well known flight or fight thing. Being threatened is a scary thing, very few even experienced police officers don't get scared. However you dealt with it appropriately and that is good. Forget she was a woman, you successfully dealt with an attacker. The adrenaline dump after would have made you feel lousy.
'Respect for women' that's a tricky one, probably best for another thread but I will say that it should be 'respect for other human beings' go with that and you'll never be wrong.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> My original post intentionally attempted to direct the conversation to an unarmed attack.


Okay. If a someone is attacking me with intent to do harm, I do not see sex. I see size, strength, and level of attack. 

I used to say I could embarrass someone, detain them, or hurt them. Nowadays, I would hopefully still have the latter option so the decision would be made very quickly. With great intent.


----------



## geezer (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I understand you are just sharing a meme, but I do think people to readily modify their morals based on what society at large says.


Yep. People modify their morals and behavior according to societal pressure. Is that wrong?

I mean, in in my great-great grampa's day it was OK for white folks to keep slaves, and in some places the government paid a bounty for killing vermin ...and Native Americans. Women couldn't vote and had very limited rights. In industrial cities, folks were paid a pittance to work in factories, 12 or more hours a day, six days a week under horrendous conditions ...and those were accepted social norms.   

Frankly, I'm glad we've been "modifying" our norms!


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 18, 2022)

geezer said:


> Yep. People modify their morals and behavior according to societal pressure. Is that wrong?
> 
> I mean, in in my great-great grampa's day it was OK for white folks to keep slaves, and in some places the government paid a bounty for killing vermin ...and Native Americans. Women couldn't vote and had very limited rights. In industrial cities, folks were paid a pittance to work in factories, 12 or more hours a day, six days a week under horrendous conditions ...and those were accepted social norms.
> 
> Frankly, I'm glad we've been "modifying" our norms!


Actually you are helping make my point that you can't draw your morals from current society norms. Then or now.


----------



## Darren (Oct 18, 2022)

It has been my experience that even a women that has been used and abused will some what come around and be nice and kind to some degree if treated right don’t mean they will still not try and take advantage of ya to some degree. But a woman can give more love and kindness then they receive!!! Seems to be a innate thing!!!! And all the women I have talked with and all that I have studied seem to be lacking in self esteem when I questioned them about it they have pointed out that it has been a man as the culprit!!!!


----------



## Darren (Oct 18, 2022)

On another subject anybody else have problems with the black belt magazine subscription?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

Darren said:


> It has been my experience that even a women that has been used and abused will some what come around and be nice and kind to some degree if treated right don’t mean they will still not try and take advantage of ya to some degree. But a woman can give more love and kindness then they receive!!! Seems to be a innate thing!!!! And all the women I have talked with and all that I have studied seem to be lacking in self esteem when I questioned them about it they have pointed out that it has been a man as the culprit!!!!


What in the world are you smoking!!!!? What planet of misogyny are you from?!!! Read your post out loud in the mirror!!!! Please, please PLEASE!!!! Stop using !!!! On phrases you would not be orating at the very top of your lungs!!! It seems to be an innate thing!!!


----------



## Steve (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Actually you are helping make my point that you can't draw your morals from current society norms. Then or now.


Where do you think your morals come from?


----------



## Darren (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> What in the world are you smoking!!!!? What planet of misogyny are you from?!!! Read your post out loud in the mirror!!!! Please, please PLEASE!!!! Stop using !!!! On phrases you would not be orating at the very top of your lungs!!! It seems to be an innate thing!!!


Well went with my father once to see his friend laying in his casket who had been blown away by his wife found out the guy had abused his wife for many years, she had enough!!! Knew this other guy who mentally abused his girlfriend one time she just broke down and started crying upon leaving he told her not to do anything cause he did not want blood on his carpet. This other guy would haul off and hit his wife as hard as he could even when they where playing around, I am a preachers kid so maybe seen and heard more then others have but in instance after instance these women have put up with months and even years of abuse and they still love the abuser. The last lady I dealt with her husband beats her and she found porno on his cell phone they been married three years and she still loves him. Time after time after time they still love him. In that instance they suffer abuse after abuse and more abuse but they still love them, that is giving more love then love they are receiving.


----------



## PhotonGuy (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Uh oh. Not the I’m funny and you aren’t…. @PhotonGuy will be showing up to be the arbiter of what is or isn’t funny. Btw my comedic timing sucks, just ask him when he gets here.


What did I miss?


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 18, 2022)

Steve said:


> Where do you think your morals come from?


Where do you think your morals should come from? Whatever current society tells you is right or wrong? In which case at the time people who believed in slavery would have been morally correct. How could you believe this Steve?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

Darren said:


> Well went with my father once to see his friend laying in his casket who had been blown away by his wife found out the guy had abused his wife for many years, she had enough!!! Knew this other guy who mentally abused his girlfriend one time she just broke down and started crying upon leaving he told her not to do anything cause he did not want blood on his carpet. This other guy would haul off and hit his wife as hard as he could even when they where playing around, I am a preachers kid so maybe seen and heard more then others have but in instance after instance these women have put up with months and even years of abuse and they still love the abuser. The last lady I dealt with her husband beats her and she found porno on his cell phone they been married three years and she still loves him. Time after time after time they still love him. In that instance they suffer abuse after abuse and more abuse but they still love them, that is giving more love then love they are receiving.


?…


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

PhotonGuy said:


> What did I miss?


Oh not much. I was just saying that you are the arbiter of funny here. Invoking you to show up and give some parameters for comedy here. I’ve learned a little from your posts so I thought maybe you could help out other needy children like me. I’m glad you responded, thank you.


----------



## Steve (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Where do you think your morals should come from? Whatever current society tells you is right or wrong? In which case at the time people who believed in slavery would have been morally correct. How could you believe this Steve?


You're not answering the question.  You're reacting defensively and being a little rude.

Edit to add, if you aren't interested in discussing morality, don't bring it up.  You open the door to this, say it's what you want to chat about, but then you get snippy.  If you're willing to have an adult conversation, I'd be happy to share my own thoughts and opinions.  But I'm not going to bore you if you're not interested.


----------



## Darren (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> ?…


My heart stopped when I was 16 hours old. Damned old doctor!!!


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 18, 2022)

Steve said:


> You're not answering the question.  You're reacting defensively and being a little rude.
> 
> Edit to add, if you aren't interested in discussing morality, don't bring it up.  You open the door to this, say it's what you want to chat about, but then you get snippy.  If you're willing to have an adult conversation, I'd be happy to share my own thoughts and opinions.  But I'm not going to bore you if you're not interested.


Steve, despite being warmed via private message to not waist my time talking to "Steve" I made a genuine attempt previously. I answered your questions, taking a lot of time to communicate with you. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not as bad as I was being told.

That was a mistake.


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 18, 2022)

Duplicate message


----------



## Steve (Oct 18, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Steve, despite being warmed via private message to not waist my time talking to "Steve" I made a genuine attempt previously. I answered your questions, taking a lot of time to communicate with you. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not as bad as I was being told.
> 
> That was a mistake.



I can only guess by whom.  Well, there it is then. I wish you well.  I’m glad you let me know so neither of us wastes any more time.


----------



## Dirty Dog (Oct 18, 2022)

PhotonGuy said:


> What did I miss?


Nothing, really.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Oh not much. I was just saying that you are the arbiter of funny here.


I object.


----------



## PhotonGuy (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Oh not much. I was just saying that you are the arbiter of funny here. Invoking you to show up and give some parameters for comedy here. I’ve learned a little from your posts so I thought maybe you could help out other needy children like me. I’m glad you responded, thank you.


Well generally I only judge what's funny and what isn't if its in a thread that I started.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

Darren said:


> My heart stopped when I was 16 hours old. Damned old doctor!!!


Truly, I am perplexed by this post.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

PhotonGuy said:


> Well generally I only judge what's funny and what isn't if its in a thread that I started.


Fair enough. It was all in jest in any case.


----------



## Steve (Oct 18, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Truly, I am perplexed by this post.


There are several posts in the last few pages that I don’t get.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

You are out of order counselor.


Oily Dragon said:


> I object.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 18, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I object.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> There are several posts in the last few pages that I don’t get.


I'm beginning to think there's a British ex squaddie on here who is upset with me. 😂😂


----------



## Darren (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Truly, I am perplexed by this post.


?..


----------



## OLD DOG NEW TRICKS (Oct 19, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> Ok we're talking about women on here but still...how much time do you have on the streets to figure out the scientific answer?
> I'm thinking some of you've never been in any Situation that's dangerous otherwise you wouldn't write about scientific data. A normal day in London...


Someone please lock that ignorant animal up.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I'm beginning to think there's a British ex squaddie on here who is upset with me. 😂😂


Well you did try to hurt his feelers. He will be okay.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

OLD DOG NEW TRICKS said:


> Someone please lock that ignorant animal up.


Now, he isn’t that bad. Just needs a little ribbing to soften him up.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Well you did try to hurt his feelers. He will be okay.


It's more the other one I was thinking about, the unoriginal numpty.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 19, 2022)

OLD DOG NEW TRICKS said:


> Someone please lock that ignorant animal up.


"Zombie knife"?  Looked like just a big hunting knife.

And the green knives and blades they showed?  Talk about confused.  WTH is a Zombie Knife.

Learned something new.  I guess the blade had war markings or something?






						Frequently Asked Questions - Zombie Knives Legislative Amendment - NSW Police Public Site
					






					www.police.nsw.gov.au


----------



## Darren (Oct 19, 2022)

Accidentally stepped on this women plant once just the tips of it all of a sudden this fist come out of nowhere her fist, moved my head out of the way and she hit my chest, I’m 6foot 230 pounds so can take it!!! Afterwards I guess she felt bad and kissed me all over my face.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> "Zombie knife"?  Looked like just a big hunting knife.
> 
> And the green knives and blades they showed?  Talk about confused.  WTH is a Zombie Knife.
> 
> ...


"What are zombie knives?​Also called "zombie killer" knives, they are ornate blades sometimes printed with skulls or toxic-warning symbols inspired by horror films. The ban specifies a zombie knife has a cutting edge, a serrated edge and "images or words that suggest it is to be used for the purpose of violence".

Where are they sold?​The blades have been available online and in some shops for as little as £8, says the BBC. Last year, the Express & Star newspaper in the Midlands found 1,600 such knives on auction site eBay, some branded "head splitter" and others decorated with "blood spatter".

Who buys the knives?​Although they are often targeted at "collectors", the blades are being bought by gang members in the UK and often displayed on social media, police say. Their large size makes them shocking – and more dangerous."

 The video is less about London and more about gang violence,  the one with the knife was himself the victim of a violent crime a couple of weeks before but is also a criminal.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> "What are zombie knives?​Also called "zombie killer" knives, they are ornate blades sometimes printed with skulls or toxic-warning symbols inspired by horror films. The ban specifies a zombie knife has a cutting edge, a serrated edge and "images or words that suggest it is to be used for the purpose of violence".
> 
> Where are they sold?​The blades have been available online and in some shops for as little as £8, says the BBC. Last year, the Express & Star newspaper in the Midlands found 1,600 such knives on auction site eBay, some branded "head splitter" and others decorated with "blood spatter".
> 
> ...


I wonder which Zombie movie started this fad.  Only a few were that goofy with crazy custom weapons..Zombieland?  Evil Dead, maybe.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I wonder which Zombie movie started this fad.  Only a few were that goofy with crazy custom weapons..Zombieland?  Evil Dead, maybe.


Well it wasn't Shaun of the Dead 😀 that and Pride, Prejudice and Zombies are the only films I've seen with zombies in.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> It's more the other one I was thinking about, the unoriginal numpty.


Hmm. Squaddie MPD?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> "What are zombie knives?​Also called "zombie killer" knives, they are ornate blades sometimes printed with skulls or toxic-warning symbols inspired by horror films. The ban specifies a zombie knife has a cutting edge, a serrated edge and "images or words that suggest it is to be used for the purpose of violence".
> 
> Where are they sold?​The blades have been available online and in some shops for as little as £8, says the BBC. Last year, the Express & Star newspaper in the Midlands found 1,600 such knives on auction site eBay, some branded "head splitter" and others decorated with "blood spatter".
> 
> ...


Legislating knives? What’s next? Toenail clippers need a permit? Bats? Hammers? For f*** sake. No trees allowed, someone might climb it.


----------



## TularosaKungFu (Oct 19, 2022)

That's why I'm making luvhappy freedom art bread knives, with 2 1/2"x32" blades on 28" handles and put butterflies and daisies on em!


----------



## TularosaKungFu (Oct 19, 2022)

That's why I'm making luvhappy freedom art bread knives, with 2 1/2"x32" blades on 28" handles and put butterflies and daisies on em!


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Legislating knives? What’s next? Toenail clippers need a permit? Bats? Hammers? For f*** sake. No trees allowed, someone might climb it.


Certain knives aren't legally allowed to be carried in the street, knives that are in the hands of non gang members and used for a legitimate purpose are fine. 
Gang members killing each other is a centuries old problem, young men especially carry knives for defence but if course because they have them they use them. Knives and cut throat razors have been the weapons of choice here since the Victorian times.  I'll get political here for a moment, the Tory government got rid of 20,000 police officers, police forces are short handed, so they brought in knife and other laws so they could look tough. Despite the gang knife crime violent crime is falling here, but it looks good if they ignore it and make 'tough on crime' laws. May not last, a revolving door has just been installed in No. 10. 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Steve (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Legislating knives? What’s next? Toenail clippers need a permit? Bats? Hammers? For f*** sake. No trees allowed, someone might climb it.


Knives are legislated in the USA and have been for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Certain knives aren't legally allowed to be carried in the street, knives that are in the hands of non gang members and used for a legitimate purpose are fine.
> Gang members killing each other is a centuries old problem, young men especially carry knives for defence but if course because they have them they use them. Knives and cut throat razors have been the weapons of choice here since the Victorian times.  I'll get political here for a moment, the Tory government got rid of 20,000 police officers, police forces are short handed, so they brought in knife and other laws so they could look tough. Despite the gang knife crime violent crime is falling here, but it looks good if they ignore it and make 'tough on crime' laws. May not last, a revolving door has just been installed in No. 10. 😂😂😂😂😂


I get the idea. I will keep my opinions to myself on these things.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> Knives are legislated in the USA and have been for as long as I can remember.


In some parts, I suppose that is true. A quick reading of California knife law is a confounding experience, to say the least.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> Knives are legislated in the USA and have been for as long as I can remember.


Laws don't apply to Zombie Apocalypses.  You get to make your own laws.

#33.  This is actually a decent rule.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> "What are zombie knives?​Also called "zombie killer" knives, they are ornate blades sometimes printed with skulls or toxic-warning symbols inspired by horror films. The ban specifies a zombie knife has a cutting edge, a serrated edge and "images or words that suggest it is to be used for the purpose of violence".
> 
> Where are they sold?​The blades have been available online and in some shops for as little as £8, says the BBC. Last year, the Express & Star newspaper in the Midlands found 1,600 such knives on auction site eBay, some branded "head splitter" and others decorated with "blood spatter".
> 
> ...


A large knife is shocking? In the U.K. no less? Somehow more dangerous? This is absurdity. There have been large knives in the U.K. for quite a long time.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> Knives are legislated in the USA and have been for as long as I can remember.


Did you know that I can order a switchblade online and possess it in my home? If I want to transport it in my vehicle it must not be anywhere inside the passenger compartment. A folding knife may be legally carried in my pocket almost anywhere. I may also legally carry a sword(or any size blade) on my hip in public. Simple possession of throwing stars on the other hand,(even within my home) is a “wobbler” that can result in a felony. A cane sword is also prohibited to possess. I can, however carry a concealed, loaded handgun on my person in most places with a permit. Im not an attorney, but this seems to be an oddball collection of statutes with no consistency in basis or bias towards public safety in any meaningful way. I’m not coming from any political place here. I am merely making an observation, and perhaps exposing my ignorance of how the law is supposed to work here.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> A large knife is shocking? In the U.K. no less? Somehow more dangerous? This is absurdity. There have been large knives in the U.K. for quite a long time.


I don't think it's the size of the knife but the markings.  "Skulls" and toxic warning symbols".

Every Swiss knife contains a cross and that's it.  So, not a Zombie Knife.


----------



## Steve (Oct 19, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Did you know that I can order a switchblade online and possess it in my home? If I want to transport it in my vehicle it must not be anywhere inside the passenger compartment. A folding knife may be legally carried in my pocket almost anywhere. I may also legally carry a sword(or any size blade) on my hip in public. Simple possession of throwing stars on the other hand,(even within my home) is a “wobbler” that can result in a felony. A cane sword is also prohibited to possess. I can, however carry a concealed, loaded handgun on my person in most places with a permit. Im not an attorney, but this seems to be an oddball collection of statutes with no consistency in basis or bias towards public safety in any meaningful way. I’m not coming from any political place here. I am merely making an observation, and perhaps exposing my ignorance of how the law is supposed to work here.


I’m lost. It seemed like you were critical of the Uk making knife laws.  Is it just that the laws we have in the USA are not consistent with our gun laws?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Oily Dragon said:


> I don't think it's the size of the knife but the markings.  "Skulls" and toxic warning symbols".
> 
> Every Swiss knife contains a cross and that's it.  So, not a Zombie Knife.


That’s so silly.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 19, 2022)

Steve said:


> I’m lost. It seemed like you were critical of the Uk making knife laws.  Is it just that the laws we have in the USA are not consistent with our gun laws?


I’m sorry, I was rambling a bit. I was actually commenting on the idea that a bigger knife or one named skull splitter or some other such nonsense is somehow more dangerous. Moreover, it is so particularly dangerous due to the markings or serrations that there is a need to legislate legal shapes and sizes or colors of knives that people are allowed. I was commenting on how ludicrous that concept is. When you mentioned knives being legislated here, it got me thinking about how that relates to similar silly ideas being legislated into nonsense laws here. Again I apologize for rambling on. I was just sort of replying to you. I don’t really have a dog in the fight because I don’t carry swords or ninja stars. Just thought those knife laws don’t really do much because after all, a kitchen knife is just as deadly as a knife with skulls and a name.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 20, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m sorry, I was rambling a bit. I was actually commenting on the idea that a bigger knife or one named skull splitter or some other such nonsense is somehow more dangerous. Moreover, it is so particularly dangerous due to the markings or serrations that there is a need to legislate legal shapes and sizes or colors of knives that people are allowed. I was commenting on how ludicrous that concept is. When you mentioned knives being legislated here, it got me thinking about how that relates to similar silly ideas being legislated into nonsense laws here. Again I apologize for rambling on. I was just sort of replying to you. I don’t really have a dog in the fight because I don’t carry swords or ninja stars. Just thought those knife laws don’t really do much because after all, a kitchen knife is just as deadly as a knife with skulls and a name.


The law wasn't just against so called zombie knives but was added to the existing law after so many flooded in from China.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> Where do you think your morals come from?


I do cause and effect morality as much as I am able to. 

So if I am hurting someone it probably isn't good.

I still hurt people I just don't consider it moral.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 20, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I’m sorry, I was rambling a bit. I was actually commenting on the idea that a bigger knife or one named skull splitter or some other such nonsense is somehow more dangerous. Moreover, it is so particularly dangerous due to the markings or serrations that there is a need to legislate legal shapes and sizes or colors of knives that people are allowed. I was commenting on how ludicrous that concept is. When you mentioned knives being legislated here, it got me thinking about how that relates to similar silly ideas being legislated into nonsense laws here. Again I apologize for rambling on. I was just sort of replying to you. I don’t really have a dog in the fight because I don’t carry swords or ninja stars. Just thought those knife laws don’t really do much because after all, a kitchen knife is just as deadly as a knife with skulls and a name.



It's about intent.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> It's about intent.


Could you elaborate? Do you mean that decorations equal intent?


----------



## drop bear (Oct 20, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Could you elaborate? Do you mean that decorations equal intent?



Yeah if you carry a knife designed for killing people you may be carrying a knife with the intention of killing people.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Yeah if you carry a knife designed for killing people you may be carrying a knife with the intention of killing people.


So stilletto and daggers only? Any knife can kill. Just because it has a skull pommel or serrations doesn’t mean it is intended to be a murder weapon. i carry a knife with a black cerakote blade that is half serrated. It was not intended or designed for killing, it was intended to be a functional tool. Yes, I could ( if I intended) likely kill someone with it. I could also use a rock, stick, or table fork for the same purpose. I guess I just don’t see the connection to intent from cosmetic details regardless of the nature. Are swords illegal to possess? A sword is specifically designed to kill people efficiently, it doesn’t need a skull pommel for that to be true. I am not the sharpest knife in the set so maybe I’m missing the point? I’m maybe on the edge of political here so I should be careful not to get points myself. Yes, all puns were intended.


----------



## Steve (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I do cause and effect morality as much as I am able to.
> 
> So if I am hurting someone it probably isn't good.
> 
> I still hurt people I just don't consider it moral.


It's a nuanced topic, to be sure.  I think there's room for a lot of different, legitimate perspectives.  That said (and why I asked the question), I'm skeptical when someone suggests that their own sense of morality is unchanging and independent of external influence.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> It's a nuanced topic, to be sure.  I think there's room for a lot of different, legitimate perspectives.  That said (and why I asked the question), I'm skeptical when someone suggests that their own sense of morality is unchanging and independent of external influence.


Would a faith based morality apply? Just a question.


----------



## Steve (Oct 20, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Would a faith based morality apply? Just a question.


I think so, but I’m not sure I understand what you mean. 

 Influenced by religion?  Yes, religion is definitely an external influence on morality.  

Does religious morality change over time? Yeah, often it does.  and where it doesn’t, it can become dangerous or susceptible to being appropriated by zealots.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> I think so, but I’m not sure I understand what you mean.
> 
> Influenced by religion?  Yes, religion is definitely an external influence on morality.
> 
> Does religious morality change over time? Yeah, often it does.  and where it doesn’t, it can become dangerous or susceptible to being appropriated by zealots.


You answered my question. I was actually asking whether you thought religious morality was a static thing, and if so, whether that would cause you some skepticism. Obviously there is no right or wrong answer since my query was so broad. I do not generally see things as right/wrong/black/white so I ask these questions to see what other people think/feel/believe.  I often uncover insights that are of value to me when I ask. Same thing with the knife law thing. I think it’s dumb, but I want to hear what others say about it because when I can’t make sense of something, it’s often because I’m ignorant to some detail. That’s a long winded thank you.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 20, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> You answered my question. I was actually asking whether you thought religious morality was a static thing, and if so, whether that would cause you some skepticism. Obviously there is no right or wrong answer since my query was so broad. I do not generally see things as right/wrong/black/white so I ask these questions to see what other people think/feel/believe.  I often uncover insights that are of value to me when I ask. Same thing with the knife law thing. I think it’s dumb, but I want to hear what others say about it because when I can’t make sense of something, it’s often because I’m ignorant to some detail. That’s a long winded thank you.



Religious morality isn't static.

I think at one point Christmas was banned for example.

Oliver Cromwell.









						Which Country Banned Christmas In 1644? - Surprising Christmas History
					

This country banned Christmas in 1644 due the rise in Puritans and their philosophy that frowned up celebrations and not pure worship.




					christmasphere.com


----------



## Steve (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Religious morality isn't static.
> 
> I think at one point Christmas was banned for example.
> 
> ...



Why do we have Lutherans?


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Religious morality isn't static.
> 
> I think at one point Christmas was banned for example.
> 
> ...


Christmas has nothing at all to do with morality.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> Why do we have Lutherans?


Sects, much like Christmas have nothing to do with morality as such.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Religious morality isn't static.
> 
> I think at one point Christmas was banned for example.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> Why do we have Lutherans?


Why do we have any of the children of Abraham? Why can’t any of them get along? Why are you picking on Lutherans in particular? Is it the Antisemitism of the founder? This is a real rabbit hole here that we probably should not go spelunking in, but I’m happy to discuss on private.


----------



## drop bear (Oct 20, 2022)

Steve said:


> Why do we have Lutherans?



Because some people just hate superman


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Oct 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> I’m lost. It seemed like you were critical of the Uk making knife laws.  Is it just that the laws we have in the USA are not consistent with our gun laws?


I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.

Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).


----------



## drop bear (Oct 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.
> 
> Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).



Image is probably more important than we give it credit for.

The broken window concept.









						Broken windows theory - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.
> 
> Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).


Actually the law in the UK about certain swords and knives should be about consumer protection. Just about every "samurai" sword, "zombie" knife etc are cheap imports from China, and totally useless. They are blunt, poorly made and sold for inflated prices. 🙄
Martial artists and genuine users of knives for work/ leisure haven't been bothered by the laws here, despite what some say or think.
My beef is the difficulty of finding the money for the Japanese sword I really need to have. 😀 My 3 year old granddaughter always says when she wants something, that she "needs" it. I need that sword, I have others, I bought when I was working but now I'm retired its hard to find hundreds of thousands of pounds lol. My husband would prefer to buy a new Landrover Defender 😆😆


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## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Because some people just hate superman


🤣


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.
> 
> Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).


You said it better than I could. It’s the inconsistency that bothers me most.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Image is probably more important than we give it credit for.
> 
> The broken window concept.
> 
> ...


How very 1984/1948. The broken window concept is a way to prop up police policy that may be well intentioned initially, but which we know from experience results in the most vulnerable and disenfranchised people in the lowest socioeconomic groups suffering from disproportionate policing. This is not an indictment of any person or group, but rather an unfortunate result of failed policy. I urge you to continue your research into the matter. The results of stop and frisk in New York are well documented.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Actually the law in the UK about certain swords and knives should be about consumer protection. Just about every "samurai" sword, "zombie" knife etc are cheap imports from China, and totally useless. They are blunt, poorly made and sold for inflated prices. 🙄
> Martial artists and genuine users of knives for work/ leisure haven't been bothered by the laws here, despite what some say or think.
> My beef is the difficulty of finding the money for the Japanese sword I really need to have. 😀 My 3 year old granddaughter always says when she wants something, that she "needs" it. I need that sword, I have others, I bought when I was working but now I'm retired its hard to find hundreds of thousands of pounds lol. My husband would prefer to buy a new Landrover Defender 😆😆


I agree that most of these items tend to be “wall hangers” of stage prop quality. Blunt 440 stainless is standard fare. Go for the Landrover.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

drop bear said:


> Image is probably more important than we give it credit for.
> 
> The broken window concept.
> 
> ...


Image is about personal perception. What a person thinks or feels when they see something is really on them. In other words, if a person(police or otherwise) sees a person dressed a certain way or walking a certain way or with a coif of a certain style, they will likely make presumptions based on their beliefs and experiences. Those presumptions will often prove false. Judging the book by its cover just isn’t the way to make policies that equate to fair and equal justice for all.


----------



## Steve (Oct 21, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Sects, much like Christmas have nothing to do with morality as such.


Ummm.  I think Martin Luther would have disagreed with you on that.


----------



## Steve (Oct 21, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Why do we have any of the children of Abraham? Why can’t any of them get along? Why are you picking on Lutherans in particular? Is it the Antisemitism of the founder? This is a real rabbit hole here that we probably should not go spelunking in, but I’m happy to discuss on private.


Not picking on anyone and not trying to go down any rabbit holes.  If you want to discuss it, I’m down.  Or not.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> Ummm.  I think Martin Luther would have disagreed with you on that.


But he is a dead anti semite so he is welcome to the debate if he is up for it.


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 21, 2022)

Steve said:


> Not picking on anyone and not trying to go down any rabbit holes.  If you want to discuss it, I’m down.  Or not.


Sure I’m okay with it, it is an interesting topic. I just didn’t want to offend anyone, including you.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Oct 21, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> ... My husband would prefer to buy a new Landrover Defender 😆😆


Now that could be Zombie Apocalypses Vehicle


----------



## drop bear (Oct 21, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Image is about personal perception. What a person thinks or feels when they see something is really on them. In other words, if a person(police or otherwise) sees a person dressed a certain way or walking a certain way or with a coif of a certain style, they will likely make presumptions based on their beliefs and experiences. Those presumptions will often prove false. Judging the book by its cover just isn’t the way to make policies that equate to fair and equal justice for all.



Covers are designed as a tool to judge the book. That is why they have a description on the back.


----------



## Steve (Oct 21, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> But he is a dead anti semite so he is welcome to the debate if he is up for it.


Ha.  Don’t read more into my comment than intended. My only point is that Martin Luther had ethical concerns about his religion, and ended up starting the Protestant movement. His 95 theses were moral concerns related to corruption and the moral foundation of Catholicism.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.
> 
> Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).


There is some state-by-state variation but overall, I feel you are spot on. At the same time, I strongly feel most of it should be at the state level.
Since defense attorneys create almost all laws, there is a workaround in most of them.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Oct 21, 2022)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> I'm not wwg, and obviously his complaints are his own. I'm also not from the UK. But I find most weapon laws stupid. Not focusing on gun laws as that would break the 'politics' rules, but oftentimes non-gun weapon laws don't make sense. Nunchucks aren't allowed, while stilettos are. Brass knuckles aren't allowed, but if you add a little knob on them to make it a paperweight, they suddenly have a non-SD focus and are allowed. Depending on the state, certain knives/daggers aren't allowed, but if you cross a state border it switches.
> 
> Ultimately, it's incredibly inconsistent, and could be fixed at a federal level, but as it is, just doesn't make sense. Also, inconveniently, it makes people who practice weapon-based arts have to fear getting pulled over to/from the dojo (which ultimately is less important than the lives of those that may be killed, but still annoying to those of us it affects, when we know that loopholes allow for others to use the weapons in a legal manner).



Early in my first marriage , I was in an apartment and I took my sword, sharp, out to the basketball court and did some weapons forms and general practicing. 

As it was getting darker, I packed up and started back to my apartment. The Court was in the middle green area between lots and multiple building. I walked to our lot and started to cross when a guy started rolling real slow and looking at the buildings. I stopped and waited as he did not see me. 
He stopped so I started to move. Well we played the him never looking forward game and starting and stopping and me stating and stopping. He ended up stopping right in front of me with the window open. 
I heard a police scanner in his vehicle. They are no illegal, only illegal to have in / on a vehicle. 
He turned and freaked, and yelled at me. 
I said I should be the one yelling as you damn near ran me over. He grumped. 
I walked inside and went up to the apartment and called the local police. (* Yes 911 was available, , but I had the local number memorized *)
While I was talking with dispatch, she was getting a call from an undercover reporting me and my description. After a couple back and forth between both of us, she laughed and told the officer I was on the phone calling on him. He asked what I had had in my hand. I answered honestly. I had a sword in a scabbard. She laughed , he laughed, and they asked if I remain inside while they finished their contact. 

After my divorce and I was moving from my apartment in to a house , a police officer was in the apartment parking lot. 
I stopped and motioned that I wanted to approach on foot and talk. 
He smiled and was doing police paperwork after a call. He had been there a few minutes and didn't look to move soon. 

So, I told him I am going to be loading my car with swords , knives and other weapons. He laughed and said "Thank you for letting me know and not catching it out of the corner of my eye."


**
Training incident I locked up the building one night a police officer across the street in the funeral home watched me and after loading my vehicle and then going back and locking the doors he pulled in and lit me up. 

He emptied my pockets and then asked to search the vehicle. 
I said no. 
He said he would anyways. 
I asked why? What is his probable cause?

He said I was stealing from the building. 

I laughed and said I had keys and you watched me lock it up. 
He said Do you give me permission to search. 
I said no. 
This went on for a few minutes. 
Then he took the keys and told me he was going to search. 
I said I am being held against my will, by a person impersonating an officer and that he was under citizens arrest. 
Only that he was the one with gun so I guess he was robbing me at gun point. 
I grabbed a pen from my trunk lid (* See emptied pockets *) and wrote down his badge number, vehicle number and plate number, while he opened my trunk, opened my gear back, found a smaller bag, and opened it and then took out my knife. Balisong - blade over 4 inches so illegal to open or conceal carry in the state of Michigan. Hence why it was in a bag in a bag , in my trunk. Handle was over 5 total length was about 9.5 inches. 

He took my blade. 

I asked for a police report number. 
He refused and drove away. 

I drove the Flint City Police Department and pounded on the door until a sergeant answered by telling me to go home before he arrests me for public intoxication. 
I yelled through the door that I was pressing charges against a person who was an officer or impersonating an officer with a badge number xyz and vehicle number ijkl, and plate number 123xabc . 

That got his attention. 

I continued that I wanted to pressed assault and battery as he did touch me. 
Brandishing a weapon. 
Armed Robbery. 
Detaining me without cause ( Civil Rights )
and impersonating an officer or charges of officer on duty committing a felony. 

He called the officer in. 
The officer was upset. 
He tried to get physical with me. 
I just raised my hands to protect my face. The sergeant grabbed him and said give him the blade or sign out and go home. He was tired of his ****. 
I got my blade back. 

Yes, it can be a hassle. 

and in Michigan most of the knife laws are there to catch one while committing another crime. 
The one ruling that got me ( sorry forgot case ) was the Knives are an offensive weapon and guns are a defensive weapon. 
Old law / case / ruling from late 1800's. I guess they wanted to stop all the knife fights. 

**

Investigate the local laws, be they Country, State/Province, and county and city and township. And yes all three can have a conflicting law. 
The general rule of thumb is that local can get more restrictive.


----------



## GojuTommy (Oct 25, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Are you asking if I would defend myself from an attacker?


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 25, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Now that could be Zombie Apocalypses Vehicle


Where I live we need a 4x4, we have a fair amount of vampire sheep so need something sturdy.
My husband, ex RAF, used to drive an armoured long wheel base Landrover on a certain deployment in the UK and really wants his own to drive around😂


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 25, 2022)

GojuTommy said:


> Are you asking if I would defend myself from an attacker?


I'm asking if you would use a certain level of force, against and attack from an unarmed female. I am certainly not asking if you would take general action to protect yourself. I'm asking if you would take your fist and break her nose. Or drive your knee into her chest, or kick her knee cap, smash her jaw with your elbow or whatever.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 25, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm asking if you would use a certain level of force, against and attack from an unarmed female. I am certainly not asking if you would take general action to protect yourself. I'm asking if you would take your fist and break her nose. Or drive your knee into her chest, or kick her knee cap, smash her jaw with your elbow or whatever.


Remembering that in most places the force used to defend yourself must be reasonable or at least proportional to be legal.
Your response must always be enough for you to escape/prevent injury but not turn into a major assault regardless of the gender of the attacker. Gender has nothing to do with the situation.


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 25, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Remembering that in most places the force used to defend yourself must be reasonable or at least proportional to be legal.
> Your response must always be enough for you to escape/prevent injury but not turn into a major assault regardless of the gender of the attacker. Gender has nothing to do with the situation.


Actually gender is a factor to be considered in appropriate use of force. Also factors such as age, size weight, level of fitness, fatigue and so on. At least these are factors the supreme court in the US uses to consider appreciate use of force. And factors law enforcement are taught to consider.


----------



## Rich Parsons (Oct 25, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> Where I live we need a 4x4, we have a fair amount of vampire sheep so need something sturdy.
> My husband, ex RAF, used to drive an armoured long wheel base Landrover on a certain deployment in the UK and really wants his own to drive around😂


In the early 90's I worked on(Wrote and designed / tested Software) :


			Fox    M93A1   Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Reconnaissance System (NBCRS)
		

and








						M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank
					

Mission: Ground Combat Fire Support, Anti-Tank




					www.military.com
				




The Tank has three significant newer packages. 
The NBCR updates We worked on were shelved for costs and budget. 

Yet, sitting in one while they move was cool. 
Riding in the commanders front seat on the NBCR while driving down a major road to another facility was very interesting. 

Your Husband ( if it can be afforded - sword aside ) could definitely use a civilian Land Rover.


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 25, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Actually gender is a factor to be considered in appropriate use of force. Also factors such as age, size weight, level of fitness, fatigue and so on. At least these are factors the supreme court in the US uses to consider appreciate use of force. And factors law enforcement are taught to consider.


I could add specialized skills, number of good guys verses bad guys, and prior knowledge about your attacker to this list also. But certainly gender is a factor.


----------



## GojuTommy (Oct 25, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm asking if you would use a certain level of force, against and attack from an unarmed female. I am certainly not asking if you would take general action to protect yourself. I'm asking if you would take your fist and break her nose. Or drive your knee into her chest, or kick her knee cap, smash her jaw with your elbow or whatever.


So you’re asking if I am sexist?


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 25, 2022)

GojuTommy said:


> So you’re asking if I am sexist?


Sexiest in my book? Your book? Or someone else's definition? No, I'm not asking that, but some people might interpret it that way.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 26, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> In the early 90's I worked on(Wrote and designed / tested Software) :
> 
> 
> Fox    M93A1   Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Reconnaissance System (NBCRS)
> ...


We do have an old Defender but he wants the new shiny one that's not long out lol.  He didn't drive tanks but Scorpions, mini tanks.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I could add specialized skills, number of good guys verses bad guys, and prior knowledge about your attacker to this list also. But certainly gender is a factor.
> .





 I did say your response should be proportionate to the attack, I think everyone understands what that means.
I don't understand why you asked a poster if he's willing to do that to a woman. It's an odd and slightly disturbing question.


----------



## Gyakuto (Oct 26, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Oh not much. I was just saying that you are the arbiter of funny here. Invoking you to show up and give some parameters for comedy here. I’ve learned a little from your posts so I thought maybe you could help out other needy children like me. I’m glad you responded, thank you.


If you say ‘PhotonGuy’, three times while staring into a mirror at 3am….😳


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 26, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I did say your response should be proportionate to the attack, I think everyone understands what that means.
> I don't understand why you asked a poster if he's willing to do that to a woman. It's an odd and slightly disturbing question.


Martial arts is reverse first aid. You are restricting the airway, causing fractures, puncture wounds, bruising, dislocations, bleeding, sometimes sending people into shock and even death.

This is why using martial arts appropriately is such a mammoth responsibility. Violence and even the appropriate use of counter violence can be very disturbing. That is the reality of landing an elbow, knee, or punch.

The question I asked is the exact same question I asked in the very original post of this thread. Just asked in a way that provides more realistic details, to make the point that striking someone (especially someone you are likely bigger and stronger than) is likely going to cause real injuries.

My question was in response to someone who was(for his own legitimate reasons) asking me to reframe my original question. Instead I restated the original question, the same question asked in the first post of this thread, but with more details of what the consequences of hitting some is really like.

I agree that hitting someone is slightly disturbing, that's the reality of applying reverse first aid. Even watching someone go unconscious (but unharmed) by a choke is disturbing in reality.


----------



## Tez3 (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Martial arts is reverse first aid. You are restricting the airway, causing fractures, puncture wounds, bruising, dislocations, bleeding, sometimes sending people into shock and even death.
> 
> This is why using martial arts appropriately is such a mammoth responsibility. Violence and even the appropriate use of counter violence can be very disturbing. That is the reality of landing an elbow, knee, or punch.
> 
> ...


I can't say I'd thought of martial arts that way lol and I'll point out too I'm only 68 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I can't give a full response at the moment, it'll give me a little time to have a think. 🙂


----------



## Jared Traveler (Oct 26, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I can't say I'd thought of martial arts that way lol and I'll point out too I'm only 68 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> 
> I can't give a full response at the moment, it'll give me a little time to have a think. 🙂


I'm a 20+ year former street/SWAT/undercover cop. Almost every story I have is disturbing. Almost every night I was eye witness to disturbing. My wife forbids me from talking about such things at social gatherings, because the reality of it is often disturbing.

So genuinely I'm not trying to be disturbing, I am just trying to shed light on the reality of how serious it is to actually hit somebody for real.


----------



## tkdroamer (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Martial arts is reverse first aid. You are restricting the airway, causing fractures, puncture wounds, bruising, dislocations, bleeding, sometimes sending people into shock and even death.
> 
> This is why using martial arts appropriately is such a mammoth responsibility. Violence and even the appropriate use of counter violence can be very disturbing. That is the reality of landing an elbow, knee, or punch.
> 
> ...


Former LEO here. I 100% concur. When it got physical, it was disturbing at times. To the OP, even weirder when an angry woman was involved, but you learned to not see sex but instead see the danger in front of you. 
I would also add how much my martial arts training helped me Not have to escalate to a hard physical altercation. There is so much to be said for having the right countenance and demeanor to deescalate a situation. Being able to process someone before they really have a chance to figure out what is going on was invaluable. 
There is a huge difference between being loud and brash vs. stern and confident.


----------



## Steve (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm a 20+ year former street/SWAT/undercover cop. Almost every story I have is disturbing. Almost every night I was eye witness to disturbing. My wife forbids me from talking about such things at social gatherings, because the reality of it is often disturbing.
> 
> So genuinely I'm not trying to be disturbing, I am just trying to shed light on the reality of how serious it is to actually hit somebody for real.


Your experiences will tend to color your perspective, that's for sure.   We had at one time a lot of discussion around legalization of various drugs, and it was hard for the cops (in particular the street level narcotics officers), because they had seen a concentration of the least likely, but most horrific things that may occur.  They certainly knew firsthand the challenges of being addicted to heroin, but that experience made it difficult for them to understand or consider reasonable perspectives that weren't their own.


----------



## Oily Dragon (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm a 20+ year former street/SWAT/undercover cop. Almost every story I have is disturbing. Almost every night I was eye witness to disturbing. My wife forbids me from talking about such things at social gatherings, because the reality of it is often disturbing.
> 
> So genuinely I'm not trying to be disturbing, I am just trying to shed light on the reality of how serious it is to actually hit somebody for real.


Of all the sparring partners I've ever had, there was one (tall, and beefy) cop who I put into almost perfect side control in the ground, and he wasn't going anywhere until I let go.

He was *very* disturbed by this power play swap, and I kind of figured why.  If we had been in the street, he might get 187'd.  Something as simple as losing control and then you're getting gun salute and a highway named after you.

That was my best martial arts lesson ever.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> If you say ‘PhotonGuy’, three times while staring into a mirror at 3am….😳


Lol!


----------



## Wing Woo Gar (Oct 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> If you say ‘PhotonGuy’, three times while staring into a mirror at 3am….😳


I’m going to try that later.


----------



## GojuTommy (Oct 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Sexiest in my book? Your book? Or someone else's definition? No, I'm not asking that, but some people might interpret it that way.


I don’t really understand the point of this question or topic.

If someone attacks another person, that person is going to defend themselves.


----------



## kitkatninja (Oct 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> That guy is definitely not my role model. 😊 In all seriousness, I don't understand how people let movies, pop culture and current society set their values.
> 
> I understand you are just sharing a meme, but I do think people to readily modify their morals based on what society at large says.



Actually, you'd be surprised how much pop culture has affected and changed/influenced modern day culture...

Superman dealt with racism and xenophobia.
Batman & Commissioner Gordon dealt with wide spread corruption within the police, judges and politicians sector.
The world of Star Trek dealt with equality, racism, xenophobia, and spawned/sparked a wide range of technological devices that we take for granted today.

Values, morals, laws, they all change/evolve over time - and yes pop culture has a hand in all of that.


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## Jared Traveler (Oct 27, 2022)

kitkatninja said:


> Actually, you'd be surprised how much pop culture has affected and changed/influenced modern day culture...
> 
> Superman dealt with racism and xenophobia.
> Batman & Commissioner Gordon dealt with wide spread corruption within the police, judges and politicians sector.
> ...


Without question pop culture influences a lot for many people.


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## Nobody Important (Oct 28, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


Woman, man, small child, cripple in a wheelchair, 3 legged squirrel with mange....It don't matter, come at me bro and Imma slap the Hell outta ya with a soggy half eaten burrito. Ya kiddin' it's 2022, people are crazy now days.


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## geezer (Oct 28, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm a 20+ year former street/SWAT/undercover cop. Almost every story I have is disturbing...


When you were on a SWAT team, would you have been less willing to shoot a_ female_ target than a male if ordered too? I imagine not. I imagine that you would fall back on your training and do what had to be done ...even if it was deeply disagreeable and disturbing.

Wouldn't "hitting a woman" ...or a feeble old man ...or young boy or girl have to be subjected to the same kind of logic? Similarly, in war, I'm told that soldiers have to do the unthinkable if their safety and that of their comrades is threatened. 

I count myself fortunate indeed that I have not had to make such decisions in my life.


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## Jared Traveler (Oct 29, 2022)

geezer said:


> When you were on a SWAT team, would you have been less willing to shoot a_ female_ target than a male if ordered too? I imagine not. I imagine that you would fall back on your training and do what had to be done ...even if it was deeply disagreeable and disturbing.
> 
> Wouldn't "hitting a woman" ...or a feeble old man ...or young boy or girl have to be subjected to the same kind of logic? Similarly, in war, I'm told that soldiers have to do the unthinkable if their safety and that of their comrades is threatened.
> 
> I count myself fortunate indeed that I have not had to make such decisions in my life.


Whatever I say regarding using lethal force will likely be hard to understand by many who haven't had to do it. PM me and I will give you a real unfiltered answer to your question.


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## geezer (Oct 29, 2022)

Just ran across  this on YouTube. Cracked me up ...and made me think  about this thread.


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## drop bear (Oct 29, 2022)

geezer said:


> When you were on a SWAT team, would you have been less willing to shoot a_ female_ target than a male if ordered too? I imagine not. I imagine that you would fall back on your training and do what had to be done ...even if it was deeply disagreeable and disturbing.
> 
> Wouldn't "hitting a woman" ...or a feeble old man ...or young boy or girl have to be subjected to the same kind of logic? Similarly, in war, I'm told that soldiers have to do the unthinkable if their safety and that of their comrades is threatened.
> 
> I count myself fortunate indeed that I have not had to make such decisions in my life.



I don't think that's how it works. 

This idea that humans are robots is more of an RBSD trope.


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## Jared Traveler (Oct 29, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I don't think that's how it works.
> 
> This idea that humans are robots is more of an RBSD trope.


Making a shoot decision is definitely better done taking into account the totality of the situation. I agree.


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## drop bear (Oct 29, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Making a shoot decision is definitely better done taking into account the totality of the situation. I agree.



Yeah. Look I haven't shot anyone but I have had to bash a few guys. And as soon as I step in to the vicinity I am trying to put the odds in my favour. 

How can I create a situation where nothing happens? If something happens how doing make it as easy as possible to fix? And so on. 

So I am calculating odds, looking at risks and coming up with plans. And then basically work from there. 

Rather than some idea where I have some go ahead to use violence because of some pre written rule. 

And when I do use violence it is just an extension of that but faster and more risky. 

So if I was in trouble yeah I would hit a girl. Untill I was out of trouble. 

But I didn't do this treat girls like boys because everyone is some sort of cardboard cut out. 

And honestly. When a girl did hit me. I would just hit their boyfriend. Because it was funnier.


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## geezer (Oct 29, 2022)

drop bear said:


> I don't think that's how it works.
> 
> This idea that* humans are robots *is more of an RBSD trope.


Robots? Sorry if I expressed myself poorly. That´s _not_ what I was trying to say.

I meant that if it were _absolutely necessary_ to do something like punch ...or even _shoot_ someone for your survival or  that of your comrades or family, highly trained and experienced professionals usually do what is absolutely necessary.

Perhaps later, many will struggle with PTSD, but that is another thing.


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## Tez3 (Oct 30, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Making a shoot decision is definitely better done taking into account the totality of the situation. I agree.


I don't know if you were around in the 70s but in Europe especially in Germany there were quite widespread terrorist attacks. It was widely known among the anti terrorist units that the order was always to shoot the females first. They were considered the strongest and least likely to hesitate to shoot so had to be taken out first. Lots to discuss elsewhere in that I imagine 🤔
However I do know from experience in Northern Ireland that one did not assume that women were less likely to attack you.


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## Barry Drennan (Oct 31, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Would you hit a woman who was unarmed but attacking you?


When there is threat of injury one must defend themselves in whatever manner is required. There are no genders in injury avoidance and survival.


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## Jared Traveler (Oct 31, 2022)

Barry Drennan said:


> When there is threat of injury one must defend themselves in whatever manner is required. There are no genders in injury avoidance and survival.


The question is, what level of injury are we realistically talking about?


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## tkdroamer (Oct 31, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> The question is, what level of injury are we realistically talking about?


That is not a question I can afford to ask anymore. If I truly assess something as a threat, 'level' goes out the door.


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## Steve (Oct 31, 2022)

tkdroamer said:


> That is not a question I can afford to ask anymore. If I truly assess something as a threat, 'level' goes out the door.


I don’t know.  Doesn’t that seem a little over the top?


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## Steve (Oct 31, 2022)

Tez3 said:


> I don't know if you were around in the 70s but in Europe especially in Germany there were quite widespread terrorist attacks. It was widely known among the anti terrorist units that the order was always to shoot the females first. They were considered the strongest and least likely to hesitate to shoot so had to be taken out first. Lots to discuss elsewhere in that I imagine 🤔
> However I do know from experience in Northern Ireland that one did not assume that women were less likely to attack you.


I didn’t know that.


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## Tez3 (Nov 1, 2022)

Steve said:


> I didn’t know that.


I lived in Germany during the time of the Red Army Faction, Bader-Meinhof etc plus the IRA aimed just at us. We stopped saying we were RAF and had to say Royal Air Force 😁
I've never known quite how to take the shoot the women first, it's almost a compliment in a way because at that time women were still seen, especially in Germany, as being the little housewife. Without being sympathetic to the terrorists it was very clear that what they were protesting about, Nazis still in high political posts, the people still following orders from authoritarian political leaders etc was very much a thing. As they say, interesting times.


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