# Root Arts of Judo.



## arnisador (Jun 27, 2002)

I learned recently from Primo Luciano that there was an older art by the name of Judo: jikishin-ryu judo. I think there was another one also. If I understand correctly, these were really jujitsu arts that sought to distinguish themselves from other jujitsu arts--does anyone know if this is correct?

This page claims that the jikishin-ryu system is a root art of judo:



> Jikishin Ryu. My teacher said that the Kodokan was still reeling from the Fusen Ryu loss [in competition] when he arrived, and later the Jikishin people were courted and eventually won over as part of the effort to "fill out" the syllabus so that the weakness that caused the Fusen loss would never be repeated.



Evidently the existence of other judo systems is the reason for emphasizing that Jigaro Kano's art is _Kodokan_ Judo. There is also Kosen Judo.


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## Chiduce (Jul 3, 2002)

This is the url for the abstract, entitled; "A Study on the Origin of the name "Judo": By Yoshiaki Todo ( Tsukuba University) and Naoki Murata (Kodokan Institute). http://www.bstkd.com/Bulletin1.htm     You should find this info on Jikishin-Ryu very interestting. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!


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## arnisador (Jul 3, 2002)

Dead on--thanks!


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## jeffbeish (Jul 17, 2002)

The Last Teachings of Professor Jigoro Kano

Judo is the way to use most efficiently ones mental and physical strengths.

By training, one should discipline and cultivate his body and spirit through the practice offense and defense thereby, to master the essence of this way.  And, by dint of these means, it is the ultimate goal of Judo to build oneself up to perfection and benefit the world.


That is what is at the bottom of my old Kodokan membership paper.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 19, 2002)

Some stuff I found whilst rummaging through old papers that were not ruined by hurricane Andrew:  

An item from a club newsletter I publish through the community school system:  

THE PURPOSE (GOALS) OF OUR JUDO CLUB

To foster the growth of Kodokan Judo as founded by Dr. Jigoro Kano.

To the fullest extent of its ability, this organization will provide instruction, leadership, and technical guidance to any American interested in Judo.  Special emphasis will be placed on the teaching and study of Judo technique.

This organization will provide guidance for testing, grading, and participation in technical and Kata competition.

Further, this organization will endeavor to make Judo a family sport with all members having an opportunity to participate at his or her level of ability and/or interest.

Judo rank awards will be based on Judo knowledge, technique, dedication, and participation.


Some Words by Rick Mertens: 

The resistance of Judoka to learn Japanese terminology continually surprises me.  Yes, I know the arguments about us speaking English, so let's teach English terminology.  Having traveled throughout the world to participate in Judo, I know the value of one universal language for Judo. 

I do not understand why Judo people should feel they are different than other sport enthusiasts.  If you participate in fencing or skiing, you learn the terminology of the originating country for that sport.  

I do not believe the learning of some Japanese words is going to damage the mental capacities of young (or old) Judoka.

Jigoro Kanos Kodokan Judo

The originator, or founder (Professor Kano), based all techniques on the principal of "Maximum Efficiency With Minimum Effort".  Professor Kano explained that in many ways, some of which are:

1. Giving way.  When your opponent pushes you, give way in the direction pushed; add a little speed and strength to that force thereby overcoming the opponent.

2. Off balancing.  All throws as described by Professor Kano were accomplished by first getting an opponent off balance, then throwing him in the direction of his weakness or loss of balance.

3. Directing an opponent's force.  If an opponent uses force in a straight forward direction, one should not use force to stop force, but rather, re-direct that force causing opponent to lose his balance.


When I joined the Kodokan the first time it was in 1960 and before leaving the region I asked if I cold renew it for a number of years.  I paid a small sum then replied hai, meaning Yes, to an oath (in Japanese) to Kodokan Judo. The I received membership papers, not a card per say, but two slips of paper; one in Japanese and one in English. I learned years later that this was a life membership!  Has anyone else run across this?


The Oath of Kodokan Judo:

1. I will not discontinue the study of Judo without sufficient reason.
2. I will never do anything to disgrace the Kodokan's honor.
3. I will always comply with all regulations of the Kodokan in studying and in teaching Judo.


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## arnisador (Jul 19, 2002)

Unwilling to learn the Japanese terms? That surprises me!

*I will not discontinue the study of Judo without sufficient reason.*

I'm not quite sure what to make of this one!


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## jeffbeish (Jul 19, 2002)

Well, the Europeans, especially the British, eliminated a lot of the Japanese terms from Judo.  This may have changed but I heard from friends who went there that they numbered the techniques and called them by the respective number.  Not sure if my memory is correct on this.  Some Americans whined a lot about using English translations for techniques. Since many of my students in Miami spoke Spanish (Cuban version), so then I would have had to learned that as well as Portuguese for my Brazilian students, French for the few Haitian students, and so on.  So, all my time would have been running back and forth to the various language books!  Anyway, it was just one of those political flaps that the uninitiated Judo nerds would bring up from now and then.  Its life was short lived.

I didnt get it either    We pledged to live a life of Judo until it became impossible to continue. In my case, and probably many others, when it became too painful and when we became less able to do it.   Maybe.  When I took that oath I was 20 years old and wasnt a Buddhist so it didnt man anything  I didnt have a small wooden Budda just in case I had to have some fire wood.
:rofl:


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## arnisador (Jul 19, 2002)

Judo _is_ hard on the aging, no? I understand it's especially rough on the knees.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 19, 2002)

If you would asked me that twenty years ago I would have agreed that Judo caused knee problems.  But, really it was from not following the teachings of Judo that caused my knee problems.  Additionally, it only takes one mistake to start the process of ruining you knees.  To look at the structure of the knee it is easy to see how this is done.  Nut, I think some of my problems stemmed from the gene pool.  My mother had knee problems from some kind of arthritis and her father, and so on.  The saw-bones (orthopedic doctor) showed me an x-ray of my left knee and explained in morbid detail all the bad things wrong with it.  At the time I was 60 and weighed 270 pounds, from 130 at the age of 20, so that was his fort advice  lose it.  The next was there was nothing he or anyone else could do for me but wait until maybe age 70 and have it replaced.

It didnt matter after I lost 65 pounds and could walk normally.  But!  I gained back 25 and am having problems again!  I forgot senseis teachings from the old master  never mss practice.


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## arnisador (Jul 19, 2002)

Simple solutions _are_ the best!

I do BJJ now and it's hard on the body but in different ways because we're (almost) _always_ on the ground. I would like more stand-up, frankly! In the brief time I did judo (twice) I liked that.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Simple solutions are the best!
> 
> I do BJJ now and it's hard on the body but in different ways because we're (almost) always on the ground. I would like more stand-up, frankly! In the brief time I did judo (twice) I liked that. *



You know, I haven't the slightest clue as to what BJJ really is.  Never saw it nor known anyone in it.


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## arnisador (Jul 19, 2002)

Someone said that judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu are the same but the former is 80% standing up while the latter is 80% groundwork. It's judo with an emphasis on wrestling on the ground for a submission. You win by getting the most points (for controling, escaping, etc.) or submitting your opponent.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *Someone said that judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu are the same but the former is 80% standing up while the latter is 80% groundwork. It's judo with an emphasis on wrestling on the ground for a submission. You win by getting the most points (for controling, escaping, etc.) or submitting your opponent. *



Sounds like a great activity.  Jujitsu can be interesting to study since Judo is a derivative of several Japanese arts, including a few schools of jujitsu.


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2002)

Somewhat surprisingly, BJJ is actually derived from judo, not jujutsu.  A Japanese judoka in Brazil taught the Carlos Gracie for about two years; Mr. Gracie then went off and developed a system from it, refined through constant matches. It's both self-defense and sport.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 20, 2002)

Back in the mid-1960's I ran into a Judoka at Columbus AFB, MS who was from Brazil.  He was shodan and was quite knowledgeable and I corresponded with him for a few years then he disappeared. Like so many other Judo people I have known.  

Anyway, if you saw any of the 2000 Olympic Judo, one of the finalists was a guy from Brazil who threw the Japanese favorite with the most perfect uchimata Ive seen in many years.  Unfortunately, the Japanese guy reached for the mat in order to spin out of the throw  but his arm broke just above the elbow and he cried!  Man, it even hurt me watching!  Anyway, the technique was flawless and that is why the spinout didnt work.


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2002)

Is spinning out like that ever taught per se or is it just a trick people pick up along the way? I've seen people do it but I've never seen anyone teach it.


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## jeffbeish (Jul 20, 2002)

Complex.  Escape techniques.  You just use the movement of the opponent that is attempting to throw you to get around them.  It is difficult to explain.


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## old_sempai (Aug 6, 2002)

:asian:

Pardon my :soapbox: soliloquy, but the information given was throughly researched, including a personal talk with Helio Gracie.


One of Takeda Sokakus [Master of the art of Daito Ryu Aikijujustu] more notable students was Kono Yoshinori.  He in turn taught Maeda Esai, who later became known as Count Komo.  According to Gracie publications Maeda Esai, a leading jujitsu champion in Japan at the close of the 19th century.  In 1907 He toured South America with Ito Takaguro, a representative of the Kodokan Judo organization, and later in 1914, Maeda Esai was awarded 250,000 acres of land by the Brazilian government in recognition of his skills in the art of Jiu-jitsu.  Gastao Gracie helped Maeda Esai settle the Japanese immigrants who came to Brazil and to show his gratitude taught his sons.   As a result Gracie Jujitsu was formally established in 1925.  While it is not clear whether Maeda Esai was in fact a member of the Japanese Diplomatic corps, it is possible he held some sort of prominent title & standing since at that point in time Japan was anxious to demonstrate to the world that although their island nation was small they had become a modern nation, equal if not superior to other nations of the world! One should also remember that at the turn of that century it was rare for a commoner in Japan to be accepted as a student or to even to be able to afford the cost of studying under someone such as Takeda Sokaku or any of his prominent students, much less be allowed to travel or even afford the cost of travel abroad.  The individual generally had to be from a prominent family, an important member of the community, and have been recommended to their prospective teacher by someone prominent in the Martial Arts before they would be accepted as a student.  

In other words in spite of its appearance as a modern nation at the turn of that century, and even today, Japan is still a multi-layered society with the former members of the Samurai families and their descendants being among the more educated members of this island nation.

And now I'll get down before the firestorm hits

:asian: :asian:


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## jeffbeish (Aug 16, 2002)

From:  The Demonstration of Gentleness (Ju-no-kata), by: Dr. Jigoro Kano and T.P. Leggett (1964). 

Jigoro Kano  wrote -- Psychological interest: Force applied against the body, and methods of evading it, excite the instinct of self-preservation, the most primitive of all.  The interest aroused by Judo touches deeper levels than most sports, especially highly artificial games with complicated rules.


Here is something I taught every new student in my dojo, direct quote of Jigoro Kano:  The ancient Chinese classic Tao Te Ching recommends us to look at the infant.  The hand is soft and muscles weak, yet its grip is form.  If we study how it holds, we find each little finger holding firmly; adults often try to use their hands as if they were rigid claws.  As a result they do not conform to the shape of the thing held, and the grip is surprisingly easy to break.


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## arnisador (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22839

Kosen tapes:
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20596


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## jujutsu1 (Jan 7, 2004)

Judo was created by Kano but he had a lot of political support to create something to change the image of jujutsu.  If you look at early pictures of the first students they looked like a pack of Samurai and in reality they were pretty close.  They came from many old schools of jujitsu-lots of technique!  There was a great deal of political pressure to give the out of work warriors something to do other than ravage the country side.  The government supported early contests that put schools of Judo and Jujitsu up against each other in a effort to develop something closer to a national sport.  Although others made efforts to compete the Kodokan students won most tournaments and ultimately became the popular style.

To me the most brilliant thing done in Judo was to take jujitsu and make it more trainable!  Many classical jujitsu people train with joint locks at slow speed to prevent injury and never truly develop the technique.  Judo people train in slightly less dangerous technique but practice on resisting opponents at full speed.   Im not bad mouthing jujitsu because I practice it myself.  I do however believe in training under resistance.


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