# Aikido and swords question



## charyuop (Jan 10, 2007)

Almost in every class we practice also with bokken (and I admit that I like it very much, almost more than bare hands).
It is clear the relation that there is between the sword and the bare hand techniques in Aikido.
So my question is, after looking at some test requirements online, why for Kyu and Dan tests the only requirements are bare hands techniques and there is no presence of sword/2 swords/jo/tonto techniques?


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## bignick (Jan 10, 2007)

The techniques derive from the movements of the sword.  Aikido is inherently an emtpy handed art, but practicing with the jo, bokken, etc help you understand where the techniques come from and refine your movements.


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## Brian King (Jan 10, 2007)

> why for Kyu and Dan tests the only requirements are bare hands techniques and there is no presence of sword/2 swords/jo/tonto techniques?


 
maybe ask your instructor as this does not seem to be true of all Aikido systems? 

http://aikieast.com/testing.htm#Kyu%20Tests

See you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King


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## Shirt Ripper (Jan 15, 2007)

bignick said:


> ...help you understand where the techniques come from and refine your movements.


Precisely.  In my breif studies this proved most beneficial, especially with collective confusion.


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## Yari (Jan 16, 2007)

charyuop said:


> Almost in every class we practice also with bokken (and I admit that I like it very much, almost more than bare hands).
> It is clear the relation that there is between the sword and the bare hand techniques in Aikido.
> So my question is, after looking at some test requirements online, why for Kyu and Dan tests the only requirements are bare hands techniques and there is no presence of sword/2 swords/jo/tonto techniques?


 

I would say that i depends on style and instructor. In the style I practice (Nishio), it has bokken and jo as a part of the curriculem and tests. I've also studied Kobuyashi style, which also had bokken and jo incorperated. But I believe that really depended upon the teacher.

/Yari


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## Hand Sword (Jan 16, 2007)

I would agree with that also.


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## charyuop (Jan 16, 2007)

Well it seems I have misread the test requirements for my dojo. There is a sword part (it just didn't say sword, so I thought it was bare hands). It is a requirement for the Dan to know the basic kana of Kumitachi.
I assume the absence in the Kyu tests is due to the fact that in the 5 basic kana for Dan you will find everything you learn during the kyu.

Anyway the more I practice bokken the more I see Aikido techniques as bokken techniques without the sword in your hands (well, most of them anyway). Thus I guess if you pass the tests for kyu it means you know the correct form/posture for bare hands, thus aplly it to bokken too.


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## Hand Sword (Jan 17, 2007)

Empty hands to Staff and sword, and vice versa.


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## theletch1 (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm pretty sure you'll find the same thing with much of the arnis stuff.  The patterns seen with a club will work just as well with a knife and just as well with empty hands.  Showing someone how the sword technique applies to the empty hand technique is a wonderful way of sparking the interest in the lower kyu ranks (Cool! A sword!) and getting them to work just a little more intensely on foot work and proper sabaki.


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## Yari (Jan 18, 2007)

theletch1 said:


> I'm pretty sure you'll find the same thing with much of the arnis stuff. The patterns seen with a club will work just as well with a knife and just as well with empty hands. Showing someone how the sword technique applies to the empty hand technique is a wonderful way of sparking the interest in the lower kyu ranks (Cool! A sword!) and getting them to work just a little more intensely on foot work and proper sabaki.


 
As an arnis practiciner(sp?) also, I have to agree. Same principle. In theory Arnis does the same as Aikido, when it comes to movements.

/yari


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## Chizikunbo (Mar 30, 2007)

charyuop said:


> Almost in every class we practice also with bokken (and I admit that I like it very much, almost more than bare hands).
> It is clear the relation that there is between the sword and the bare hand techniques in Aikido.
> So my question is, after looking at some test requirements online, why for Kyu and Dan tests the only requirements are bare hands techniques and there is no presence of sword/2 swords/jo/tonto techniques?


 
My instructor, Shintaku Hanshi
always says that bokken helps you to learn ki extension, also remember that much of aikido is derived from the sword. We study iaido with my instructor also to unify the mind, but there are also very interesting empty hand applications. Aikido Journal had an interesting bit about the Ken and Jo in regards to Aikido as taught in Iwama by Moriho Saito (SP), by the way if you are ever lucky enough to get ahold of the Vol 1 and Vol 2 Traditional Aikido books by the same author you may also find ALOT of information on this subjecy. "The Spirit of Aikido" by Kisshomaru Ueshiba Doshu also has a good bit of information on the subject and it is also an all around good read...
Hope that helps a little,
--Josh


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## Sukerkin (Mar 30, 2007)

I wouldn't want to advocate something to confuse you, *charyuop*, but if you can I'd heartily recommend taking on board some iaido training or maybe some katori.

This is because most aikido I've seen seems to rely on the fact that the swordsman they're going against is really not very good and gives openings that would not be present versus a skilled opponent.

Don't think I'm being critical of your art here, it is after all, at it's heart, a 'last ditch' defence versus a weapon wielding adversary when you have only yourself to depend on.  I'm just suggesting that experience in a dedicated sword art might assist you with your chosen path :tup:.


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