# Modern Arnis Symposium



## Bob Hubbard

*Mod Note : This is a merging of several threads on this subject.  There may be some disjointment due to this. - Kaith*



Just a thought...
Its been mentioned a few times here about having a large gathering of Modern Arnis practicioners similar to the Kenpo "Gathering of Eagles" (think thats what its called).

I bounced this one around a little bit, and had an idea on how this may work to give the most exposure.  In Sci-Fi fandom theres a concept called WorldCon.  Its held every year, but each year in a different city.  Perhaps we can do something similar?  Get all the MA groups together, vote on a host city (school) and get things rolling.  I'm of the opinion that promoted correctly, this could have several hundred people show up, with much higher numbers in some areas. (I'd expect a supercamp in the Phip. and Japan to top 500 easily)

Each group has their own camps each year, and still could.  I believe that they are scheduled so as to not overlap each other too much.  Perhaps pick a month thats traditionally 'slow' and see if thats a good time for it.

Backing up a hair...maybe rather than voting, you take all the host-sponsor groups names, put them in a hat, and select 1 at random?  Once you've hosted it, you're not eligible for a couple years to re-host?

Just tossing out some ideas.  The org leaders are the folks who know the headaches on this better than I.  Would be nice though if this could get off the ground.  The experience level to see if everyone got involved, shared and opened their minds and learned.  And, Hey....wouldn't it be just too cool to see all of the MOTTs and Datus and other Modern Arnis teachers under one roof doing what they do best, together?  

:asian:



Recent references:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?&threadid=1796
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?&threadid=2010


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## Datu Tim Hartman

As I said before. If you host it I'll be there.

Datu Tim Hartman
From Sweden till the 28th!

:asian:

P.S. This makes 1, anyone else what to throw thier hat in?


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## Rich Parsons

I think the idea would be great.

I would love to attend. With my limited experience
of 16+ years I am always looking for new people
to train with and to learn from.

Rich


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## Dan Anderson

Great idea!  If we can get onto one big conference call or some such, I think it could be worked out.  I'd attend for sure.
Dan Anderson


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## BRAM

OK..
I'll be there with steel in my hands..
might as  well cut to Modern Arnis..
there's #2..

Off to Israel June 1-14..or so...


Bram


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## Bob Hubbard

I believe David Ng and Dan Anderson have also indicated their interest.

Dr. Barber, you have 4, I think. 


As a request, can you all pick up this topic here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?&threadid=2018

This is wandering from the original intent of this thread, and I'd like to seperate the thoughts a bit.

Thank you,


:asian:


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## Dieter

Hi,

it´s really hard to decide in what thread one should send the answer to. I will do in several.
Just a quick note that I, if I can get  the date organized family wise, am interested to participate and instruct in such an event.


Datu Dieter Knüttel
Germany


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## Mao

I have mentioned in the past that I could see a time when we could all work together. Tim and I have talked about this also. Could this be the time?

            Dan McConnell
        Modern Arnis of Ohio
         Hilliard Budo Center


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *I believe David Ng and Dan Anderson have also indicated their interest.
> 
> [K] Dr. Barber, you have 4, I think.
> 
> Actually, I would not want to commit David as a active participant fro doing a demo/seminar within a Symposium because what he wrote was:
> 
> [DN] Dr. Barber,
> >Please go to the following thread...
> >http://www.martialtalk.com/showthre...=&threadid=2010
> 
> >I share the same idea of a joint gathering and am in support of >your idea...you can count me in if it comes to light...
> 
> __________________
> >David Ng
> >Triangle Kung-fu Arnis Academy
> >Raleigh, NC
> 
> I took that to mean that supports the idea and that he would be willing to help if the event can become a reality.  Well it seems now that we have 5 definates, so the fun begins.  I will begin the organizational aspect of getting a facility and hotel group rates together next week.  I am leaving, this afternoon for the weekend to attend my son's college graduation, so I will be off-line until Monday or Tuesday.
> 
> 
> As a request, can you all pick up this topic here:
> http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?&threadid=2018
> 
> This is wandering from the original intent of this thread, and I'd like to seperate the thoughts a bit.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Not a problem, I am just following the path outlined in the e-mails that I have recieved from the forum.
> 
> Jerome Barber, Ed.D.*


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## dng1032

To all interested,
We are headed in the right direction...this is what the Professor would want. everyone coming together sharing and spreading the art...

I do support the gathering and am willing to teach  as well if you would like...   

take care to all,

David:asian:


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## Mao

If you get to teach, I get to teach!  NAAA NAAA NA DOO DOO.
                                      :rofl:


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## dng1032

OK official Symposium thread

I'm there!


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## Bob Hubbard

Ok, so far Dr. Barbers the guy organizing one, so I'm turning this thread over to him and everyone else interested in a super camp (which is the only way I can think of such a gathering).

There have been affermatives by:
Dan Anderson
The Presas Family
David Ng 
Dieter Knüttel
Paul
Tim Hartman
and I think a few others (sorry if I missed ya)

I believe Dr.B was targeting 2003 as the date?

If I can assist in anyway, please let me know.  

Good luck.  It looks like you've got a lot of work ahead of you all, but, it sounds like you're all off to a great start.
:asian:


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## Cruentus

Wrestling and weightlifting! Me and my bro are gonna team teach,
as I explained in a different post.

:duel:


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## Mao

Are you gonna bring any female ring personalities??


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## Rich Parsons

Paul to bring female Ring Personalities?

That would be nice, given Pauls' eye condition.

If Paul and MAO get to teach, I want to teach 
TOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! 

Not Fair! 

Rich Parsons
Lakan Tatlo
Flint Modern Arnis Club

:asian:


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## Cruentus

You bet!

So far I've got my little brother Jim who is willing to dress up like a chick.

Besides that, I better put out an open invitation for hot chicks to participate in the WWF demo!


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## Rich Parsons

I would like to participate and even have the
chance to teach  

Rich Parsons
Lakan Tatlo 
Flint Modern Arnis Club


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## Mao

would be one ugly chick! Tough though.


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## Cthulhu

Isn't there a general FMA gathering called Sama Sama?

Cthulhu


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## Dan Anderson

I mentioned this in another thread but let's get the gang together
and put on a show.   Let me know the date long enough in advance and I'll be there with sticks in hand.

Let's also put out advance notice to *Black belt, Inside Kung Fu & Filipino Martial Arts* magazines and get some face time for Modern Arnis while we're at it.

Dan Anderson

PS  Look for the article I wrote on Modern Arnis in the August issue of Inside Kung Fu.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> 
> *I mentioned this in another thread but let's get the gang together
> and put on a show.   Let me know the date long enough in advance and I'll be there with sticks in hand.
> 
> Let's also put out advance notice to Black belt, Inside Kung Fu & Filipino Martial Arts magazines and get some face time for Modern Arnis while we're at it.
> 
> Dan Anderson
> 
> PS  Look for the article I wrote on Modern Arnis in the August issue of Inside Kung Fu. *



Hello Dan,

I am going to go to work on getting a facility and logding this week, then I can project the cost of putting on the Symposium.
There is NO doubt in my mind that the Modern Arnis Symposium **Will Be the Modern Arnis Event of 2003**  There are already ten people who have indicated that they want to be instructors and that is without any MoTTs and/or Jeff Delaney opting in as of this writing.

I will be writing to both of those groups within a day or so to make a formal request that they participate.  Given the number of MoTTs, it would be appropriate for them to send a rep or two as instructors, although I would love to see them all attend the event.

The advance notice to the magazines will be taken care of once we get the details under control.  Good face time is a definate must for this event.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## DoctorB

For those of you who would like to get a heads-up view of one of our proposed 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium indicated instructors, the upcoming Escrima-Kenpo Summer Camp is the place to be.  Punong Guro Tom Bolden will be presenting his Pancipanci Eskrima - American Modern Arnis on July 13 & 14.

PG Bolden is a "long-timer" in Modern Arnis and he was the person who introduced Modern Arnis and Professor Presas to the Mid-Hudson Region of New York in 1982.  He also attended the 2 week Summer Camps that Professor, conducted before he dropped to the one week camps and finally the 3-4 day weekend camps that became the staple of his training program from the mid 1980's through 2001.

PG Bolden was also One of the FIRST non-Filipinos to be trained in the FMAs by a Filipino Instructor.  It is also very interesting to note that PG Bolden began his training in the FMAs a year of so BEFORE Guro Dan Inosanto began his traing with Guro John LaCoste, Guro Max Sermianto and GM Angel Cabales, in Stockton.
Master Florintino Pancipanci, was PG Bolden's instructor in both Eskrima and CHA-3 Kenpo, begining in 1962, at Camp Smith, Hawaii.  His addaitional FMA training began in the late 1970's under the late GM Remy Presas.

When Guro Bram Frank, was writing about "the Flow" and the long-timers in Modern Arnis, I can tell you with total certinty that PG Bolden was definately one of the people that he had in mind.

If you really want to see and feel Modern Arnis with a difference, an edge and fluid motions ("the Flow"), then check out PG Bolden.  He has a very different feeling to his art and it has greatly evolved over the past 8 years since he left the IMAF.  

I believe that anyone attending this camp with a Modern Arnis background is going to very pleasently surprised at how different the same aspects of Modern Arnis can be under a different instructor.  People who have not seen PG BOlden over the past 8-10 years are going to very surprised at the development of his variant of the art of Modern Arnis.  It really does deserve and needs to have a distictive name: American Modern Arnis!

But come see for yourselves, because I will freely admit to being quite unobjective when it comes to PG Bolden and his art.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D. *Pancipanci Eskrima - American Modern Arnis*


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## bloodwood

DoctorB and symposium organizers - Please take into consideration any date conflicts that would hinder people from attending. Three day camps by the different groups out there, that are close to your date may cause a problem where people might not be able to attend away weekends close together. Also the $$ may be a problem. Just something for you to keep in mind.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Just a thought...
> Its been mentioned a few times here about having a large gathering of Modern Arnis practicioners similar to the Kenpo "Gathering of Eagles" (think thats what its called).
> 
> I bounced this one around a little bit, and had an idea on how this may work to give the most exposure.  In Sci-Fi fandom theres a concept called WorldCon.  Its held every year, but each year in a different city.  Perhaps we can do something similar?  Get all the MA groups together, vote on a host city (school) and get things rolling.  I'm of the opinion that promoted correctly, this could have several hundred people show up, with much higher numbers in some areas. (I'd expect a supercamp in the Phip. and Japan to top 500 easily)
> 
> Each group has their own camps each year, and still could.  I believe that they are scheduled so as to not overlap each other too much.  Perhaps pick a month thats traditionally 'slow' and see if thats a good time for it.
> 
> Backing up a hair...maybe rather than voting, you take all the host-sponsor groups names, put them in a hat, and select 1 at random?  Once you've hosted it, you're not eligible for a couple years to re-host?
> 
> Just tossing out some ideas.  The org leaders are the folks who know the headaches on this better than I.  Would be nice though if this could get off the ground.  The experience level to see if everyone got involved, shared and opened their minds and learned.  And, Hey....wouldn't it be just too cool to see all of the MOTTs and Datus and other Modern Arnis teachers under one roof doing what they do best, together?
> 
> Hey Kaith,
> 
> Your are correct it is called the "Gathering of Eagles" and it is a great model to follow for what I have proposed for the Modern Arnis community.  That is exactly what is needed because it will allow people to clear up some of the misconceptions that abound within the community of people who do this art.
> 
> Personally I believe that the event should be on a bi-annual basis.  I beieve that when something occurs every two years it has more impact power that something that we can go to every year!  If we were to follow the GOE model, it would be a bi-annual affair.  As for moving the Modern Arnis Symposium around to other cities; please do it!  I am all in favor of it!  I will organize this first one because I made some very strong and pointed statements in several post within different threads on Martialtalk.com, so I had to stand behind my statements.  I am also quite tired of the endless comments about who said, did, did not, can not, should not, etc.
> 
> Let's get this into an area that is much more objective.  Let's move to a performance driven format.  We all understand that it is easy to talk, but I want people to have to stand and deliever the goods!  I believe that knowledge, skill and ability are the proper coodinate points that determine real rank.  Pieces of paper are fine things to put on your wall, but when the rubber has to meet the road, paper is meaningless!
> 
> Personally, I believe that the proposed Modern Arnis Symposium will be THE MAJOR Event in our area of the martial arts in 2003.
> Let's just look at the list of people willing to contribute their time and teaching skills as of 5pm Monday, May 20th:
> 
> Dan Anderson, Bram Frank, David Ng, Tim Hartman, Dieter Knuttel, the Presas Family, Dan McConnell and Tom Bolden.  That is a strong lineup and we have not heard from Datu Kelly Worden nor either the Schea/MoTTs or Delaney Groups.  I am very well aware that David and Dan are associated with IMAF Inc., but the bulk of the anti-establishment comments were directed at Schea/MoTTs and Delaney, therefore having them and Datu Kelly  on board would be a good thing.  On the other hand even without them the lineup is quite impressive.  Anyone missing this event is going to be kicking themselves in the rear for quite some time to come.  There is only one first time for this event!
> 
> I will have a definative date for you within the next couple of weeks.  My first choices are the last weekend in June or the 2nd weekend of July 2003, thereby avoiding the July 4th holiday.
> 
> I am planning on 200 - 250 people to be in attendence because this existing line-up is too good to miss.  I know that there are some excellent Arnis people within this line-up.  No one is a slacker in this group!
> 
> It is also true that a Symposium such as this will not answer every quetion about who is better and who is the best, but it give everyone an equal or as near equal opportunity as possible to showcase their knowledge, abilities and skills within the context of Modern Arnis.  We will very clearly see who has the basic foundation skills and advanced applications abilities within this art.  Showing up on the Modern Arnis Symposium floor is the best way for everyone to see and evaluate for themselves who has the "right stuff" and who is not quite at the top echelon of Modern Arnis.  When people come to the first Modern Arnis Symposium 2003, it would be wise to check their egos at the door and enter with their eyes and minds wide open!  I have worked with several of the people who are ready to present and I know what they have to offer.  And we should be mindful of another aspect of this proposed event, if these folks were not confident that they will rise to the occassion in the company of their peers, they would not have stepped forward, asking for a spot on the program!
> 
> Jerome Barber, Ed.D.*


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## Guro Harold

Someone have a way of sending word to Bob Quinn?  He is a great guy and I think an invitation especially from the senior members would be cool.


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## BRAM

I think that  Dr Barber is setting the date about a year in Advance.. IMHO I'd say OTHERS should not schedule near HIS date..
RIGHT?
So instead of him watching someone else's events and worrying, he's setting the dates NOW....a full year ahead...
That means you and others can commit to THIS camp and tell the others..sorry the date conflicts with my already scheduled Modern Arnis Camp..
PERIOD..
that's simple...

And as for cost..things today aren't cheap..but I'm sure it will be reasonable..
of course I guess that's a matter of perspective..RIGHT?
I have a hard time with people who want to know "how much?"
Whatever the product costs...thats How much..

Of course I have this discussion with people unwilling to buy quality firearms, knives or the like..things one's life depends on..
the cheaper the better..? not if you want to live...
you get what you pay for...

Going to the Riddle of Steel, or Water n Steel or the Commandments can set you back $1000...plus your expenses..and your equipment..
Is it too much? Since there's waiting lists for each I guess not..

A good production tactical folder ( knife) runs $150-$200..a good custom one around $500...is that too much? Since thats industry standard I guess not..some cost upwards of $4000 each

Cars cost what my moms first house cost...
$10,000 buys you a nothing car,,the average Mustang or Camaro cost $20-$30K....The new SVT is $40K...too much? I guess not they sell them out..

 As for homes?? who would guess that homes, fixer up homes could cost $100K...in mIami area $180K buys a fixer-upper

Lets see, advertising, expenses, phone calls, renting of the Conference Halls, the booking of Hotel rooms with guarantees, payments towards Teachers, ...insurance for the event...flyers...
hmmm guess Dr Barber could spend a bit of the ole' money to set it up..and of course he needs to recoup those expenses....
and our entry fees pay for that...

You want quality instruction? I guess you plan ahead and book the dates..and start saving your pennies..
DR Barber is giving everyone a heads up OVER a year ahead..

My students pay over $1200 just in Airfare to come to the Commandments of Steel..plus the camp expense, plus their REQUIRED trainig gear & eqipment...They plan a year in advance..
DR Barber and the others teaching deserve no less the same respect and the planning..and commitment

sorry I have no patience for the "I can't afford it..or one must plan so all can afford it" attitude...
I made my way to see the Professor...
I sold things if I had to...I paid him extra and I bought what he was selling....I put him up in hotels and bought him food..



The date is et..the venue is known ahead of time..
I'd suggest we all use positive thinking and say THIS is the event of those dates..all others should be in second place..

Bram

If I have not followed the ways of the forum..please excuse me and delete this post..I  only meant to show respect to Dr Barber , the others commiting to the event and his and their efforts..


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## Bob Hubbard

Nah.  You made a lot of good points in there. 

I think Bloodwoods point was that many groups already have fairly 'traditional' dates where they have their camps.

If the camp is held in the US, we have US and Canadian holidays to work around.  In addition, theres the established org camps to work around.

Now, I'm not saying Dr.B should be the only one to give here.  Every org has their camps listed AFAIK.  I'd make a rough map on whos-where, tack in the holidays, and come up with some possible dates based on that, and his own ideas on when is good.  If theres a date conflict, as part of the contact process with the orgs, possibly inquire on if they can bump thiers back/forward a few weeks so as to maximize things for everyone.  Or, maybe merge the 2.  Whichever works for the benifit of the majority.

Costs...the more affordable the more people can attend...the more people attending the more cash raised...the more cash raised more instructors afforded.  $200 seems very affordable...$1000 puts it out of most people that I know ofs reach.  Again, those who have already organized events know the mechanics better than I. 

If theres 10 instructors, and each one gets $500, then $5k needs to go for instructor fees alone.  $200/person * 50 attendees = $10k.  Leaves $5k to cover other overhead exp like advertizing, catering, insurance, etc.  This is of course overly simplified.

Schedule so that the most folks can attend, price it where it covers costs comfortably, yet allows the most folks to attend, and of course, make it alot of fun.  I think its a plan. 



:asian:


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## Roland

There are several events already planned for 2003, so I think Bloodwood was just making sure that no one got double booked.
 Also, even if these events are not on the same weekend, if they are too close together, then it makes it hard for a lot of people to choose which events to go to. Or, if they are already commited to one, the might not be able to make it to the good Doctor's event for various reasons.
 I know myself, I have events I host, some I have been asked to teach, others I have commited myself and my students to help out with, plus normal life stuff, all set for next year already.
 I want to make this event, I think it is a good idea and have thought that for awhile, I heard someone mention that the Doctor had proposed this many, many months ago.
 But, if I know myself there are things I will not be able to get out of at this time.
I am sure this is the reason why Al Tracy does the Gathering, only evey other year.
 It pays to pre-plan, AND be aware of what esle is going on at the same time.


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## Cruentus

Although I do see your point, Bram, I think that affordability is a concern. I am confident that DoctorB will arange the event accordingly, so that his costs will be covered, yet it will be affordable for all.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> 
> *DoctorB and symposium organizers - Please take into consideration any date conflicts that would hinder people from attending. Three day camps by the different groups out there, that are close to your date may cause a problem where people might not be able to attend away weekends close together. Also the $$ may be a problem. Just something for you to keep in mind. *



Actually, Bloodwood, every single seminar or camp date that I have ever proposed and run has had conflicts for some people just as I have had conflicting stuff in my life that prevented me from going to some events.  That is the nature of the beast, so i will have to work within the time frames that work best for me and then hope that there a significant nuber of people can and wiil be able to attend whatever date I have selected.

One of the reasons that I am worked a year in advance to schedule the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium is that people can  put that date and event on their calenders.  There will never be a perfect date for everyone!

BTW, I am the Symposium organizer.  There are a number of people who have agreed in principle to be instructors and I am very grateful for their support, however the final decisions will be mine alone to make.  

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by BRAM _
> 
> *I think that  Dr Barber is setting the date about a year in Advance.. IMHO I'd say OTHERS should not schedule near HIS date..
> RIGHT?
> So instead of him watching someone else's events and worrying, he's setting the dates NOW....a full year ahead...
> That means you and others can commit to THIS camp and tell the others..sorry the date conflicts with my already scheduled Modern Arnis Camp..
> PERIOD..
> that's simple...
> 
> Thanks Bram, for your support.  I am going to plan this proposed Modern Arnis Symposium with just one clearly stated principle in mind: Quality wins out over convience and excuses!
> 
> If my proposed Symposium conflicts with someones schedule, I am sorry, but that's life!  If people want to come into Buffalo next summer, 2003, and demonstarte their competence and expertise as teachers of Modern Arnis, I am going to do all that I can within reason and that includes cost, to make that event happen.
> 
> I have made and will continue to make some hard statements about the quality of the art that some people have displayed.  I have grown totally annoyed with all of the bickering and posturing regarding the "leadership" of the Modern Arnis style and I decided to give people an opportunity to put their skills and ability to the test in a comparison and contrasting format, that will allow any interested person to **Make Their Own  INDEPENDENT Judgement** about who can actually do the art and can't!
> 
> As a "long-timer" who only hears from some people/groups when they want my attendence and money, I decided that I want these people to EARN my confidence and trust.  In short, people i am willing to back up my words with actions... I can do this art called Modern arnis and now I want to see if these "new short- timers" have anything worthwhile to offer!  Is there truth in their advertizments?
> 
> And as for cost..things today aren't cheap..but I'm sure it will be reasonable..
> of course I guess that's a matter of perspective..RIGHT?
> I have a hard time with people who want to know "how much?"
> Whatever the product costs...thats How much..
> 
> Of course I have this discussion with people unwilling to buy quality firearms, knives or the like..things one's life depends on..
> the cheaper the better..? not if you want to live...
> you get what you pay for...
> 
> Going to the Riddle of Steel, or Water n Steel or the Commandments can set you back $1000...plus your expenses..and your equipment..
> Is it too much? Since there's waiting lists for each I guess not..
> 
> {Three (3) Paragrahs Deleted}
> 
> You are absolutely correct about pricing, Bram and one of my considerations is definately the cost of this proposed symposium for the participants who will be in attendent to this event.  Will it be $300 or $400?  I do not know as of today, but it will be determined very soon.  OBTW, who in the hell do these people complaining about possible dates and cost think will have bare the start-up costs for this event for at least 10 months in advance of the date?
> 
> Lets see, advertising, expenses, phone calls, renting of the Conference Halls, the booking of Hotel rooms with guarantees, payments towards Teachers, ...insurance for the event...flyers...
> hmmm guess Dr Barber could spend a bit of the ole' money to set it up..and of course he needs to recoup those expenses....
> and our entry fees pay for that...
> 
> Wow, look at that list of up-front expenses.  Hmmm... maybe I should reconsider this symposium idea and just let the forum carnage and bickering continue without any sort of resolution!!
> Thanks for the reminder, Bram!
> 
> You want quality instruction? I guess you plan ahead and book the dates..and start saving your pennies..
> DR Barber is giving everyone a heads up OVER a year ahead..
> 
> My students pay over $1200 just in Airfare to come to the Commandments of Steel..plus the camp expense, plus their REQUIRED trainig gear & eqipment...They plan a year in advance..
> DR Barber and the others teaching deserve no less the same respect and the planning..and commitment
> 
> sorry I have no patience for the "I can't afford it..or one must plan so all can afford it" attitude...
> I made my way to see the Professor...
> I sold things if I had to...I paid him extra and I bought what he was selling....I put him up in hotels and bought him food..
> 
> I am going to move forward with this project because it is really something that needs to happen.  People will just have make up their own minds about the relative value of attending this event
> in 2003.  If I can get all of my ducks and credit lined up the event is on and the final information will be posted in a few weeks!!
> 
> The date is et..the venue is known ahead of time..
> I'd suggest we all use positive thinking and say THIS is the event of those dates..all others should be in second place..
> 
> Bram
> 
> If I have not followed the ways of the forum..please excuse me and delete this post..I  only meant to show respect to Dr Barber , the others commiting to the event and his and their efforts.. *


*

Hell, Bram you were one of the first three people to step up and offer to instructor, so from my perspective you have not said one thing that is out of line.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.*


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Roland _
> 
> *There are several events already planned for 2003, so I think Bloodwood was just making sure that no one got double booked.
> Also, even if these events are not on the same weekend, if they are too close together, then it makes it hard for a lot of people to choose which events to go to. Or, if they are already commited to one, the might not be able to make it to the good Doctor's event for various reasons.
> I know myself, I have events I host, some I have been asked to teach, others I have commited myself and my students to help out with, plus normal life stuff, all set for next year already.
> I want to make this event, I think it is a good idea and have thought that for awhile, I heard someone mention that the Doctor had proposed this many, many months ago.
> But, if I know myself there are things I will not be able to get out of at this time.
> I am sure this is the reason why Al Tracy does the Gathering, only evey other year.
> It pays to pre-plan, AND be aware of what esle is going on at the same time. *



Hey Guys, 

Double booking **Is Not** an issue here!  People will have plenty of time to set up their calanders.  Cost is a definate factor and i do not want to price this event out of everyones reach, but then how big a payday will the instructors get?  Think about that one fellas!!!

Yes, i did mention this symposium ideas several times before, but since no one picked up the ball, I took the opportunity to do it, now the carpping and excuses begin before the final dates are even set?  Wow, now that is some leadership example!

I am planning a year ahead!  I will nmake the date convient to me and my instructors.  Either you can come and be supportive or you can't!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by PAUL _
> 
> *Although I do see your point, Bram, I think that affordability is a concern. I am confident that DoctorB will arange the event accordingly, so that his costs will be covered, yet it will be affordable for all.
> 
> *



Paul, you are correct with regard to costs and coverage!  I will have to lay out some up-front money and as of today no one has offered their assistance in that regard.  

If people have other plans and obligations, then each individual will have to make a choice about what they really want to do and which event they really want to attend.   It is no different for me.  

I will not schedule the Symposium for a time frame that I know that I have pre-existing committments.  However, if I asked for everyone's calender and tried to find an open date that would fit everyone's schedule, I can guarantee you that there would always be a conflict, due to holidays, religious observations, family committments, work, seminars and camps.  Therefore I will pick a date around the best costs, best facilities and best availible time options that I have open to me.  

So let's just get over this problem and move on to the bigger picture, do people REALLY WANT this Modern Arnis Symposium 
to happen or would they prefer to keep the verbal nonsense going?  The verbal posts prove nothing, except that someone 
has a computer, keyboard and access to a forum!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> 
> *
> 
> Paul, you are correct with regard to costs and coverage!  I will have to lay out some up-front money and as of today no one has offered their assistance in that regard.
> 
> . . .
> 
> 
> 
> So let's just get over this problem and move on to the bigger picture, do people REALLY WANT this Modern Arnis Symposium
> to happen or would they prefer to keep the verbal nonsense going?  The verbal posts prove nothing, except that someone
> has a computer, keyboard and access to a forum!
> 
> Jerome Barber, Ed.D. *




Dear Doctor Barber,

 I enjoyed meeting you at the Buffalo Camp.

To the first Question, as to Money. Did you ASK?
In my opinion you have not asked not until now?
It would be nice to have some producers for this
event. But, I see a major problem in this. You
have stated that ALL decisions will be yours
since you are the symposium host / sponsor.

As for the second question, I agree with you,
lets get over this, and not just spout out with
a computer. I would like to have this symposium.
I would like to offer my help, if you think it would assist you? I would also like to point out
that the last four posts were yours, and the
impact of your posts are most likely not your
intent. I say this after just meeting and talking
with you for a couple of minutes.

Yes, lets us move on and get this program a 
moving. But remember this is the written word,
inflection, smiles, body language are not present
here. As Paul's signature states no matter how
hard you try someone will take it wrong. But, you
can try to choose the words so they do not sound 
like a challenge.

My Apologies Dr Barber, this is not meant as a
personal attack on you or anything you have said.

Rich


----------



## bloodwood

Is this how you guys react to someone trying to add some POSITIVE input on the let's be nice and friendly and share event? And you wonder why there is so much hostility in Modern Arnis. This is supposed to be a healing event that brings the Arnis family closer together and already it's - This Is THE Event and all else is secondary. I mearly stated two valid points that I believe many people would have concerns for. 
Others on this thread have already noted that these are points to watch. 
DoctorB, if you are already getting your back up this early in the game this will not be en enjoyable experience for you. And as for BRAM, you jump down my throat with all this long winded crap and rigid attitude that has no place in friendly give and take forum. And you know what!!! If you're gonna be one of the instructors Count Me Out


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *
> 
> 
> Dear Doctor Barber,
> 
> I enjoyed meeting you at the Buffalo Camp.
> 
> To the first Question, as to Money. Did you ASK?
> In my opinion you have not asked not until now?
> It would be nice to have some producers for this
> event. But, I see a major problem in this. You
> have stated that ALL decisions will be yours
> since you are the symposium host / sponsor.
> 
> As for the second question, I agree with you,
> lets get over this, and not just spout out with
> a computer. I would like to have this symposium.
> I would like to offer my help, if you think it would assist you? I would also like to point out
> that the last four posts were yours, and the
> impact of your posts are most likely not your
> intent. I say this after just meeting and talking
> with you for a couple of minutes.
> 
> Yes, lets us move on and get this program a
> moving. But remember this is the written word,
> inflection, smiles, body language are not present
> here. As Paul's signature states no matter how
> hard you try someone will take it wrong. But, you
> can try to choose the words so they do not sound
> like a challenge.
> 
> My Apologies Dr Barber, this is not meant as a
> personal attack on you or anything you have said.
> 
> Rich *



Rich, I wish that we could have talked more at the camp, but time and events really made that difficult.  There is no need to apologize, because I am not taking your comments as a personal attack.  You have the right to your opinions and I will most certinly express mine when I deem it to be appropriate.  I am easily annoyed by some things and totally unresponsive to others.  I am quite willing to discuss issues and leave personality out of the posts.

As for money, I did not ask, have not asked and I am not now asking.  Since I do not have any idea about what the up-front costs could be, it would be foolish of me to put out a request which might be too small or too large!  Since I have hosted seminars and camps in the past, I am aware of the need to post bonds and deposits. Also take note, I was not the person who first raised the questions about money or up front expenses

As for the decisions, yes they are and will be Mine To Make!  I believe that there has to be a final decision maker and in this circumstance, for this proposed event, I am that person.  

I do have some plans that I have not mentioned because it really is not anyone elses' business regarding the financing.  Either the plan will work or it won't, in either case I will certinly proceed with the proposed Symposium and some instructors might choose to opt out because there will not be a big payday for them.  I fully understand that problem and I can work around it.

But as I understood and stated the issue at hand, the proposed Modern Arnis Symposium is intended to bring together the people who are claiming leadership in the art, as well as some of the "long-timers" such as myself to demonstrate in a public forum for all in attendence to see - their knowledge, skills and abilities in/of the art of Modern Arnis!  

Is that your understanding of what the Symposium is supposed to be all about?  If you have a different understanding, please let us know!

Rich, you can help by promoting the idea of the Symposium.  You can help by encouraging people to attend.  You can help by being there yourself.  You can help by writing supportive posts and private e-mails.  I will take on the responsibilty to get this Symposium going.  I put that burden on myself, through my posts on several threads and a couple of private e-mails.  I have said that it is time for some people to stop talking/posting/  making claims about their position and styles of Modern Arnis.  It is time to take the entire matter to the training floor for all to witness!  
It is time to "Stand and Deliever!".

I am going to provide the logistic and facility for this first Symposium happen in 2003.  I said it, now I have to stand behind my statements.  I did not promise success, I promised that I would make the opportunity available for the compaision and contrasting of style, ability, skill and knowledge.  Thus far ten senior instructors who have worked directly with the late GM, Remy Presas, have signed on to be there.  Their names were made available for everyone to see and thus far none have backed away from their stated intention.  All but one of the people posted their intention on this forum.  If someone that you would like to see or work with is not listed, then contact that person try to convince them to participate.  The Symposium will happen, barring some totally unforseeable sitautions.

Now as to what I said in my last four posts, I meant every word, otherwise I would not have posted any of it!  If people can not attend because of the costs, prior committments or insecurity, that is too bad, but that  is not one of my problems.  If people have to make a choice about which of two conflicting events to attend, that is not my problem; life is full of choices that have to be made!  I am not telling anyone that they 'have to' attend the Symposium, I am going to encourage everyone that I regularly communicate with to be there.  And please understand that I have no real tolerence for excuse making or whining; either you can and will be there or you will not.  As far as setting the date based on my schedule, of course I will.  Why would I try to adjust my schedule to fit someone elses'?  My wife and kids come first!

Rich, if someone wanted to take on the challenge of organizing a second Modern Arnis Symposium for 2004 or 2005, Please Encourage them To Do It!  They will not hurt my feelings.  My project is to develop the 2003 event.  I have no plans or thoughts beyond 2003.  The field is wide open and I will be quite happy to assist someone if they want to do the next one.  Moving this kind of event to other cities in the US and/or Canada would be a good thing in my opinion, because not everyone can get to Buffalo, easily and inexpensively.  I will also be quite happy to help get the next effort started after the 2003 event is done.

The challenge, if there is one, is to grow in the art and mind.  I have stated what I believe needs to said.  I have said what I believe to be both truthful and factual.  If people want this event to happen then they need to support it and attend.  If they do not want to see it happen, then they need to state that opinion, loudly and clearly.

This entire Symposium idea **Is Not** about me or you, it is about putting one's knowledge, skill and ability on the line for everyone to see and judge for themselves.  Rank certificates and other pieces of paper are not the definative and true measure of an instructor within the martial arts.  In the end it is all about ABILITY.  Isn't that part of what people are complaining about when the question of titles such as "professor" and "grand master" have come up on threads contained on this forum?  Isn't ABILITY the attribute that first attracted so many people to Professor Presas and Modern Arnis? 

Rich, let's put this cost, date, conficting  committments discussion behind us.  The dates and costs are not yet decided.  Once they are then the decision on whether to attend or not can be made based on facts not speculation.   Understand that the Symposium will not be cheap, but I am not going to charge $1000 per day either.  

This Symposium **Is Not** about making lots of money, it is about giving people the opportunity to determine for themselves who has the knowledge, skill and ability to teach the art of Modern Arnis!  

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Cruentus

Whooooaaaaaaaaa! Whoooooooaaaaaaaaaa! 

:argue: :duel:  

Come on guys! let's not fight. I'm offering a free hug for everyone the next time I see them, if ya all promise just to  *RELAX* .

Seriously, though, I know most of you well enough to know that your all good people. I think I know all of you personally except DoctorB and Bram (who I respect enough without having to have met them), but we all have mutual friends here. We all have good intentions, even if we have different idea's as to how to go about it. So everyone chill out a little, and let DoctorB, who took the initiative to step up and put together an event, do it. Let him set it up, and we'll make suggestions, and work stuff out as we go along. 

If we can all relax a little and not get so defensive (I have to remind myself of this all the time) then this event will become a reality, and it will be successful!  :soapbox:  

Bloodwood: I wouldn't normally single you out, but I'm going to only because I know that your a good guy, and you can handle it. You may not sound like that to everyone right now, but I can vouch for you!  

I know that you ment no harm with your post asking about cost and times, and that you where just addressing the issue. Just don't let people's "talk" (which is all this is) discourage you from participating and missing out on an event that should be pretty good.

Bram: I don't mean any offense to you either, and I'm pretty hopeful that you didn't intend to offend anyone, or jump down anyones throat, and that you were just making the point. Just be careful (as I have to as well). As it has been said many times before, intentions can be easily misunderstood on a talk forum like this.

*EVERYONE:* I just want to make the point to everyone that when getting together for a huge symposium such as this, not everyone is going to agree with everyone on the Art, Organization of an event, or anything for that matter. Hell, not everyone is going to even like each other, let alone agree! But, given where we all are coming from (which is from a linage of Remy Presas), I think that we can at least suck it up and get along. We have a wonderful example to follow, and that is Professor Remy Presas' example. He was a very nice person who could at least get along with everyone and BE HAPPY, even if he didn't agree with them or even like them. He could do this without jeprodizing his beliefs and methods that made Modern Arnis.

I know we can all follow in his footsteps and do the same. We can all get together, even if there are some that we don't even agree with or like. We in fact must, if we wish to see other perspectives, and continue the art. We can all do it, and be happy!

So, let us do it......:asian:


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by bloodwood _
> 
> *Is this how you guys react to someone trying to add some POSITIVE input on the let's be nice and friendly and share event? And you wonder why there is so much hostility in Modern Arnis. This is supposed to be a healing event that brings the Arnis family closer together and already it's - This Is THE Event and all else is secondary. I mearly stated two valid points that I believe many people would have concerns for.
> Others on this thread have already noted that these are points to watch.
> DoctorB, if you are already getting your back up this early in the game this will not be en enjoyable experience for you. And as for BRAM, you jump down my throat with all this long winded crap and rigid attitude that has no place in friendly give and take forum. And you know what!!! If you're gonna be one of the instructors Count Me Out *



Bloodwood,

I never expected that the Symposium idea would go forward without some comments.  It is part of the development of an idea or project.  The matter of costs and conflicting events is a reality that has to be taken into account.  The downside of all of this is that there will never be a date that is without conflict for someone., therefore I will do what every other seminar and camp host has to do; schedule the event, and let each individual make his/her own decision about whether they are going to attend.

On the matter of costs, I do have to offer some remuniration to the instructors, don't I?  It is a given that with 10 - 12 instructors, they payday is going to be small for each indiviual who participates.  Privately several people have already stated that they understand the situation and it is the event that is most important to them.  I will kep the cost as low as possible.  Simply understand that it will not be cheap; the Symposium is a major event and there are already 10 indicated instructors.  It should also be noted that THE SYMPOSIUM will be the major Modern arnis event of 2003.

Regarding counting yourself out because Guro Bram Frank, has indicated that he will attend and instruct, that is your call to make; however I would like to point out that you are also denying yourself the opportunity to work with nine (9) other instructors.  Is it really worth it to you to avoid attending because of one instructor and an exchange over the internet?   But is your call to make!

As for my back being up!  Not really, I have stated my point of view in a direct and clear manner.  I have very strong opinions on some matters and that is going to come out when I deem it appropriate and necessary.  Others will speak out on different topics/subjects that they feel strongly about.  There will be some disagreements, but that is the nature of a forum discussion group.

Do I believe that the Symposium will settle all disagreement?  Not for one second, I am too much of a realist.  Do I believe that the Symposium can address some of the issues that have been the grist of numerous posts and threads?  I most certinly do!  In the end, you and every other person who chooses to attend will have an opportunity to judge for yourselves which of the instructors have the qualities that you want to have as part of your Modern Arnis art.

The Symposium is an opportunity for some of the instructors to work with and see others whom they have only heard about.  That is the single most important aspect of this proposed Symposium - for people to meet one another and work together.
 As I have stated numerous times, we will all have an opprotunity to see who has the Knowledge, Skill, Movements and Abilities to really do Modern Arnis!  It is all about accepting the challenge to "Stand and Deliever".  Any instructor who steps out on the training floor at the Symposium, has to have the confidence that his/her art is superior to most others in the discipline.  

Some people have claimed titles such as "professor", "grand master" "punong guro" "successor" and "guardian".  If and when they arrive at the Symposium, they will have to demonstrate why they should taken seriously.  They will be critically judged by their peers and others in attendence.  Other instructors simply want the opportunity to pay homage to the late GM, Professor Remy Presas and they will have that opportunity.

So let's get on the business of promoting the event.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Tapps

Kudos to Dr. B for trying to get the ball rolling.

I don't envy you trying to pull it off.

It will be very interesting to see which instructors are willing to stand side by side with other Modern Arnis leaders and show their wares.

I suspect there are some who will shy away from such a gathering to avoid comparison.

If you can do it, I'll be there.

:ticked: :disgust: :uhohh:  :disgust:


----------



## Dan Anderson

*Bloodwood,* 
I have met with Dr. Barber and he shares something with all of us, yourself included - *passion.*  Obviously you passion shows in your disdain or non-liking of Bram Frank.  Okay.  Bram does have a take it or leave it style of personality.  You and I are on different sides of the coin regarding it.  Dr. Barber does have a point in that there are 9 other instructors who have committed themselves who you might miss out on.  Oh well, it is your call on whether you want to attend or not.  Personally, I hope you do so that I can meet you.  I have read a number of your posts and you are passionate about your feelings regarding the art.  There is no dishonor in having passion.

*Paul,* 
Thanks for the offer of a hug but I'll decline.

*Bram,*
You get that kind of money our of the camps.  Damn, I'm in the wrong business!

*DoctorB,* 
This sounds like, in the words of the Beatles song "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite," _A splendid time is guaranteed for all._   I will be there and am looking forward to it.  On a personal note, have you received the CD I sent you and if so, what do you think?  Still waiting for book info.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


----------



## bloodwood

Thanks to DoctorB, Paul and Dan for clearing the air. I will do my best to attend and to promote the event. I do want this symposium to succeed and I'm sure it will, considering the fact that we all are so passionate about what we do and want. I guess my points were heard, but I didn't intend for them to cause such an outburst. We sure can hammer away at a post, but in the end it seems to get things out there on the table and straightened out.


----------



## BRAM

Sorry that my response caused any discomfort...
didn't mean to insult anyone...
I'm really a soft hearted soft spoken type of guy...
just ask Dan, or Kelly or DrJ or Dougie....
Of course no one has to like me...
you ( thats a generalized 'you') might pick something up from training with me..or you might not...
Datu Kelly and I cut...

I will not repeat my rant..nor my position..Its stated..

This gathering of the flock is very important..and if its a one time event or the start of a tradition..BUT there's only ONE first time..
Woodstock #2???? give me a break..ROFL....

Have to go teach Knife-Counter Knife @ the Israeli Security Expo and the Commandments of Steel...

Talk to you guys later...

Bram


----------



## BRAM

Bloodwood..Guess as a good Jewish kid I was reading from back to front onthis thread and found out if I'm there you won't be...
Isn't that a bit of cutting of your nose to spite your face?
Why not come, get in my face and tell me you're training with everyone else BUT me..Why deny yourself the pleasure of those other instructors?
Hey..you don't like me ..that's OK. Don't miss out on the other guys cause you dislike me....

I teach real deal people..You want to see and learn..great..you don't that's OK as well..My Modern Arnis might not be YOUR Modern Arnis...I don't bang sticks..as they say "slice n dice is REAL nice"

Roland: good point ..I do know some events happen generally around certain dates yearly..Like the Blade Show, Shot Show, MILIPOL., The Riddle of Steel, Water n Steel, the Commandments of Steel...I'm sure Dr Barber will check out the majors to make sure its not a conflict...

sometimes due to conflicts I have to pick n choose where i go..
But thats life, it's full of choices..DR Barber is attempting to be way out front on dates n times..Turns out to be a conflict? I guess thats life..

Again: sorry if I ruffled some of your sticks.. 

Paul: thanks for the email!!!! Your correct about reading tone & intent into the written word..not a good thing to do..ROFL...


be safe..

bram


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Good point... "Only 1 first".

and in all honesty, when we type, things are sometimes lost.  For all the folks who have got various levels of heat, who's to say that when we are all together, we won't find we're really not that far apart after all? 

Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?

Dr.B's got a huge task ahead of him, I don't envy him at all, but when this is all done, I've got no doubts that he (and us) won't look back and say "Well done".  

:asian:


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *...
> 
> Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?
> . . .
> :asian: *



Kaith et al,

I believe that in the 1970's there was a meeting
or gathering of many of the then great and the
now great and well know masters and practitioners
of FMA. There was a discussion of creating a
giant umbrella to share techniques and to come
together in bortherhood. Not choose to attend
and I am not sure of the results, but I have
been told that the event took place. 

Now this was not a seminar or training meeting
but one to discuss further meetings for training.

I hope this event comes off.

I also wish all Modern Arnis events to be
successful and to honour our Late GM Presas.

Best Regards to all

Rich
:asian:


----------



## bloodwood

OK Bram, I get the point, and I do recognize good intentions when I see them. I don't make it a habit of disliking people without meeting them. If this discussion and the points I brought up were done in a room with all of us face to face I'm sure none of this would have happened. We here on Martial Talk are all working together for the good of the martial arts though sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I guess confrontation is just part of what we do in the martial arts. 
As for my Modern Arnis, I'll take it any way it comes, in your face, full contact or just chilling and talking strategy. I will never pass up on learning from someone and I'm sure that if and when we meet there will be no problem. Hell I need all the friends I can get cause my wife and kids don't even want to talk to me anymore. They say all I ever want to talk about is Modern Arnis and what I want to do. I wonder what their problem is?


----------



## BRAM

I just saw Datu Kelly's response on their forum..it looks like he wants to come..but hes interested in a more central venue..
Gee Dr.J.....
want to consider Las Vegas? Viva Las Vegas...
Ok just joking...
hmmmmmm I live in Americas vacation Land..the house of the Mouse..
who knows...
Sticks and stones and mouse ears..
ROFL..
OK... I guess I'll come see Niagra Falls...Big water...
That is up by you right? Niagra Falls?
Did I spell that correctly?

Bram


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Close.  Niagara Falls. 

Heres a thought...Dr. B has said his focus is on 2003.  If this one takes off, someone organize the 2004 one on the west coast.  someone else do 2005 in the south.  Etc.  I think he'll agree theres no reason we can't have a roving gathering, so as to spread the art even further.  Not everyone can afford the $200-$2000 in airfare.  But a 5 hr drive isn't too much to ask. I drove 26 hrs 1 time for a seminar, and regularly do 2-4 for scifi/anime cons.

I think, with good intentions and good planning, all things are possible.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> 
> *Good point... "Only 1 first".
> 
> and in all honesty, when we type, things are sometimes lost.  For all the folks who have got various levels of heat, who's to say that when we are all together, we won't find we're really not that far apart after all?
> 
> Outta curiosity, has anything like this happened before in either the Arnis or FMA in general worlds?
> 
> Dr.B's got a huge task ahead of him, I don't envy him at all, but when this is all done, I've got no doubts that he (and us) won't look back and say "Well done".
> 
> :asian: *



Thanks for the advanced confidence, Kaith, I truely appriciate it! Sure this is going to be a difficult job but not imposible.  I am going to attempt to answer several questions raised in just this one post because my day is totally booked from 12:00 on through 9pm.

I do not know of any FMA or stylistic event such as what we are considering here.  It is absolutely a first that i know of for Modern Arnis within the United States... to the best of my knowledge!  If someone has other information, I would welcome it being shared.

As I stated in an earlier post, I am concentrating on 2003.  If anyone wants to pick up and begin working on 2004 or 2005 and setting the venue on the western, southern, mid-western US or in Canada, i would not have any objections or hard feelings.

I fully understand costs and travel considerations.  I will do my best to make the Symposium affordable to a majority of people.
Part of my day will be spent checking out possible venues and the costs associated with them.  Those factors have to be put against how many people, swinging sticks, can the facility hold.  A small gym/school will automaticly raise the potential cost per person.  So a large space is preferable.  

A large sapce allows for 2 or possibly 3 instructors working at the same time... yep, that means more decisions will have to be made.  I would also like to have each instructor do 2 or 3 presentations apiece, so that if you miss someone the first time around you will have at least a second chance to work with that person.  I also want to give each instructor at least 90 minutes per session.  I have worked 30, 45 and 60 minute training seesions and those times are simply not enough for me.  If that is the time frame that the host has to provide, then I just go along with the program... but I want to give people 90 minutes to show their skills.

Thus far I have only the instructors listed several days ago on the proposed program.  But I will be writing tro several other Modern Arnis people on the weekend, informing them about the proposed Symposium and inviting them to participate.  If they accept that will be great, if they decline, the show goes on without them.  If they decline to acknowledge the invitation, I will make that known to all within a reasonable time frame of my choosing, however you can rest assured that I will make the non-acknowledgement known.  I was taught that good manners always require an RSVP with regrets, when a specific invitation is issued.

I am happy to see that there is some agreement that the event is more important than egos.  Please remember that my motto at every seminar and camp that I host is the same: check your ego at the door so that you can learn something!

Gotta go...

Respectfully to All,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Dieter

Hi Jerome,

long time since we exchanged e-mails (1998). We missed out training Arnis on a sailboat, remember?

But now first of all: The symposium is a great idea.
Kelly Worden was also talking about something like that a few months ago in private e-mail, but you were the one to  go out in the public first, so lets go for it.

In my opinion it is a big advantage, that you do not belong to any of the groups (IMAF Shea or Delaney, WMAA, WMAC or MARPPIO), which will make it much easier for the different groups to attend, because they do not have the feeling to support a seminar of the "foreign/wrong" group.

Regarding a similar event like this:
My student Alfred Plath and I have organized a FMA festival this February. We had 18 different  FMA styles and instructors there teaching their styles.  At saturday night we had a FMA gala, where different groups could give a demonstration. All together 450 participants took part in this event and up to now it is regarded the largest FMA seminar-event worldwide.
We had 11 lessons and each instructor taught 4 times. There were always 6 instructors teaching at the same time. The lessons were only 50 minutes and as you said, this is a little short, but we thought rather a little shorter and therfore more training than longer ones and less training. But 90 minutes would be of course the ideal length for a session. 

For you have 10 or 12 instructors already and I am sure there will be more to come, please let me suggest, to make it a 3 day event, at least a 2 1/2 days one, say friday night and then saturday and sunday. This gives you  time to place more instructors teaching their techniques. Also, for me coming from Germany, I of course would prefer a place easy and cheap to fly to. I know that Kelly has suggested Las Vegas and I have heared that they have large halls to place such an event. But this is only a thought and I will of course also come to Buffalo, when it will take place there.

I will sure announce it her in Germany and perhaps I will come with several people. But it sure depends on the price too. But as you have said, you will try to make it a goods pice, because it will be good to attract as many people to this symposium as possible. 

How about a little show at saturday night, where the different groups can present  their flavour of Modern Arnis to the  participants? I think this could be really interesting.

Here in Germany we also organize a 1 week Modern Arnis summercamp every 2nd year since 1989 with always around 6 instructors teachiing. Usually about 20 classes (lessons) in that week and always 3 - 4 teachers teaching simultaneously. Usually about 100 Modern Arnis practitioners are participating.
The next will come up  September 9th - 15th  2003, so if some of you found the symposium great, you are cordially invited to come to Germany to train in our summercamp.
The fee is usually around 300 US$ including training, accomodation and food. So quite reasonable. And far enough away from the symposium to not get into a date conflict. I will post more details when I have them.

Anyway, back to your event, if I can be of assistance in sharing experience from the camps that we organized, I am more than willing to help.

I think, there will never be a united Modern Arnis again like under the Professor. And therfore this symposium is the bes that can happen to Modern Arnis, because it is a friendly come together of (hopefully) all Modern Arnis groups. 
Those who will not be there will miss THE Modern Arnis event. And this means, that it might not be too important for them because other things are more important. OK then, but if it is not so important, why bother for them but go on with those, that  find it important enough to attent. And I am sure there will be many. 

And that would be something the Professor would really be proud of.

So Jerome, keep on going, you are doing the right thing.


Best regards from Germany


Datu Dieter Knüttel


----------



## Dan Anderson

I'm hooking up with Bob Quinn in August for a gig we're doing.  If he hasn't heard about it by then, I'll fill his ear.

This looks like it's going to be the biggest Modern Arnis event in the history of the US besides RP landing here.  What started out as an idea on the net will turn out to be truly a gathering of (____).  We need a great slogan for the magazines and promotion.  I like Deiter's idea of a Saturday night series of demos by the instructors so we can SEE them move as well as listen to them teach (and in my class, listen and listen and listen...I'll admit I have a tendency to go on and on).  I truly hope ALL the different reps of Modern Arnis will be there.  What a show we'll put on.

Jerome, thanks for the original thread and the effot you're putting into this.   I'm behind you 100%.
Dan


----------



## Guro Harold

Hi Dan,

Is this gig you are teaming up with Bob Quinn a public Modern Arnis event?  If so could you please post the details on MT?  I used to go to Bob's camps in Atlanta during the summer.

Thanks,

Palusut


----------



## Dan Anderson

Palusut,
Yes, it will be a Modern Arnis camp.  Brain dead of me not to mention anything sooner.  Bob is hosting it in Atlanta August 23-25.  I will get all the details and post up a new thread in the next couple of days.  Got a new grandchild coming in the next 24 hours so time is taken up.
Dan


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> 
> *I'm hooking up with Bob Quinn in August for a gig we're doing.  If he hasn't heard about it by then, I'll fill his ear.
> 
> This looks like it's going to be the biggest Modern Arnis event in the history of the US besides RP landing here.  What started out as an idea on the net will turn out to be truly a gathering of (____).  We need a great slogan for the magazines and promotion.  I like Deiter's idea of a Saturday night series of demos by the instructors so we can SEE them move as well as listen to them teach (and in my class, listen and listen and listen...I'll admit I have a tendency to go on and on).  I truly hope ALL the different reps of Modern Arnis will be there.  What a show we'll put on.
> 
> Jerome, thanks for the original thread and the effot you're putting into this.   I'm behind you 100%.
> Dan *



Hello Dan,

I am not very good with slogans, so if people would like to try their hand at developing one, let's have them do it and pass the info to me.  In fact we can have a poll on the best slogan if we get several to choice from.

Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night .  I want to see people moving and teaching for three days.  Discussions and roundtables are an option but I am not really interested in talking in a formal presentation - the talking (posting on the web) has already been done - now it is time to see what people can do in the floor.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> 
> *Hi Jerome,
> 
> long time since we exchanged e-mails (1998). We missed out training Arnis on a sailboat, remember?
> 
> But now first of all: The symposium is a great idea.
> Kelly Worden was also talking about something like that a few months ago in private e-mail, but you were the one to  go out in the public first, so lets go for it.
> 
> In my opinion it is a big advantage, that you do not belong to any of the groups (IMAF Shea or Delaney, WMAA, WMAC or MARPPIO), which will make it much easier for the different groups to attend, because they do not have the feeling to support a seminar of the "foreign/wrong" group.
> 
> Regarding a similar event like this:
> My student Alfred Plath and I have organized a FMA festival this February. We had 18 different  FMA styles and instructors there teaching their styles.  At saturday night we had a FMA gala, where different groups could give a demonstration. All together 450 participants took part in this event and up to now it is regarded the largest FMA seminar-event worldwide.
> We had 11 lessons and each instructor taught 4 times. There were always 6 instructors teaching at the same time. The lessons were only 50 minutes and as you said, this is a little short, but we thought rather a little shorter and therfore more training than longer ones and less training. But 90 minutes would be of course the ideal length for a session.
> 
> For you have 10 or 12 instructors already and I am sure there will be more to come, please let me suggest, to make it a 3 day event, at least a 2 1/2 days one, say friday night and then saturday and sunday. This gives you  time to place more instructors teaching their techniques. Also, for me coming from Germany, I of course would prefer a place easy and cheap to fly to. I know that Kelly has suggested Las Vegas and I have heared that they have large halls to place such an event. But this is only a thought and I will of course also come to Buffalo, when it will take place there.
> 
> I will sure announce it her in Germany and perhaps I will come with several people. But it sure depends on the price too. But as you have said, you will try to make it a goods pice, because it will be good to attract as many people to this symposium as possible.
> 
> How about a little show at saturday night, where the different groups can present  their flavour of Modern Arnis to the  participants? I think this could be really interesting.
> 
> Here in Germany we also organize a 1 week Modern Arnis summercamp every 2nd year since 1989 with always around 6 instructors teachiing. Usually about 20 classes (lessons) in that week and always 3 - 4 teachers teaching simultaneously. Usually about 100 Modern Arnis practitioners are participating.
> The next will come up  September 9th - 15th  2003, so if some of you found the symposium great, you are cordially invited to come to Germany to train in our summercamp.
> The fee is usually around 300 US$ including training, accomodation and food. So quite reasonable. And far enough away from the symposium to not get into a date conflict. I will post more details when I have them.
> 
> Anyway, back to your event, if I can be of assistance in sharing experience from the camps that we organized, I am more than willing to help.
> 
> I think, there will never be a united Modern Arnis again like under the Professor. And therfore this symposium is the bes that can happen to Modern Arnis, because it is a friendly come together of (hopefully) all Modern Arnis groups.
> Those who will not be there will miss THE Modern Arnis event. And this means, that it might not be too important for them because other things are more important. OK then, but if it is not so important, why bother for them but go on with those, that  find it important enough to attent. And I am sure there will be many.
> 
> And that would be something the Professor would really be proud of.
> 
> So Jerome, keep on going, you are doing the right thing.
> 
> 
> Best regards from Germany
> 
> 
> Datu Dieter Knüttel *



Hello Dieter,

Good hearing from you again.  I sure do remember the idea of training on the boat, and we certinly can look into that for the 2003 Symposium.  In fact I chose the term "Symposium" because I wanted to distingush this event from other program involving Modern Arnis.  I also wanted to avoid the usage of the term "gathering" as used by several other organizations.
I want the Modern Arnis Symposium to be viewed as an open event where we can and will see as many variants and senior instructors of the art as possible in one place.

Your observation that I am not a memebr of any of the Modern Arnis groups is correct and should be helpful in getting this Symposium going.  There is no "enemies list" or "wrong group" from my perspective.  I think that the Symposium is a reasonable way for the different groups of people and students to meet, talk, demonstrate, compare and contrast their versions of the art.  My attitude is quite simple regarding this matter - if you can do the art, then show up and do it!

I like the German format that you have mentioned and that is what I had in mind.  As for Las Vegas, I can't do that, because you really need someone there to coordinate things and search out the venue.  Buffalo, is better for me; but if Kelly or someone else wanted to set up Las Vegas for 2005, I would be the first to encourage them to do it.  There are also other cities that would be more than acceptable for this kind of event.  I also believe that a Symposium, once every two years is a better choice than being held annually - that gets old very quickly.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Dieter

> Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night . I want to see people moving and teaching for three days.



Hi Jerome,

this is not what Dan and I ment. Of course there should be teaching all the time. But that means, that when you have 3 or 4 groups going at the same time, you always miss something. 

The idea of the Gala at saturday night is, that all participants come together and the different groups will give a Modern Arnis demo of 5 - 10 minutes, so one can see the differences and similarities.
NOT TO SAY WHO IS THE BEST AT THE END, BUT TO ENJOY AND APPRECIATE ALL THE DIFFERENT FLAVOURS OF MODERN ARNIS.  Remy taught different people differently and he taught differently and different techniques at different times of his life. Wouldn´t  that be something to see all theat at one evening on stage?
And in the end, it all comes from the Professor and all of it is Modern Arnis.

So this would be an additional to the teaching during the days.

Do you think it will be possible?

A note to Keith: Can´t we join the different threads that all have to do with the symposium to one thread?
I think this would help. Just my 2 cents.

Regards from Germany

Datu Dieter Knüttel


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> 
> *
> 
> Hi Jerome,
> 
> this is not what Dan and I ment. Of course there should be teaching all the time. But that means, that when you have 3 or 4 groups going at the same time, you always miss something.
> 
> The idea of the Gala at saturday night is, that all participants come together and the different groups will give a Modern Arnis demo of 5 - 10 minutes, so one can see the differences and similarities.
> NOT TO SAY WHO IS THE BEST AT THE END, BUT TO ENJOY AND APPRECIATE ALL THE DIFFERENT FLAVOURS OF MODERN ARNIS.  Remy taught different people differently and he taught differently and different techniques at different times of his life. Wouldn´t  that be something to see all theat at one evening on stage?
> And in the end, it all comes from the Professor and all of it is Modern Arnis.
> 
> So this would be an additional to the teaching during the days.
> 
> Do you think it will be possible?
> 
> A note to Keith: Can´t we join the different threads that all have to do with the symposium to one thread?
> I think this would help. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Regards from Germany
> 
> Datu Dieter Knüttel *



OK, sorry that I missed that point.  Good idea, now let's see if it can be worked into the plans.  Still have to find a place to hold the event and keep the costs down.  Then there is the is final event as you envision it... nice idea, thanks.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

I have merged the posts on the symposium here to make it easier for everyone to discuss this.  Please concentrate your posting on the symposium here.

Thank you.
-Kaith.


----------



## Dan Anderson

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> 
> *
> 
> Hello Dan,
> Actually my idea was to have people teaching throughout the Symposium, no merely Saturday night .  I want to see people moving and teaching for three days.  Discussions and roundtables are an option but I am not really interested in talking in a formal presentation - the talking (posting on the web) has already been done - now it is time to see what people can do in the floor.
> 
> Jerome Barber, Ed.D. *



Jerome,
Hell, give me the chance to teach and I can *teach* and *talk * for three days straight.  Ask any of my students when it's time for class to end and I am in "teach & lecture" mode.

Humor aside, an evening demo of the instructors and seniors would be great.  I think the trick would be to keep it short and find out in advance who is going to demo what so the scheduling will be varied.  You don't want 6 instructors demonstrating anyos 1-4 back to back.  It will make it more entertaining that way.

We also don't need to "talk in a formal presentation."  I think get some of the Canadians to bring down some Gibsons, pour a few brews and break bread amongst ourselves and we all should have a good time.

That is what I'll be there for.  There's people I haven't met (Tom Bolden, Hoch Hockeim, etc.) and some I haven't seen in quite a while (Dieter, Shishir, etc.) and new and old friends I'd like to see again.  Personally, I predict Saturday night, done right, is going to go late into the evening.  I, for one, am going to "close the place down" with a big smile on my face and be ready to teach the next day.

Dan


----------



## Rich Parsons

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> 
> *
> . . .
> We also don't need to "talk in a formal presentation."  I think get some of the Canadians to bring down some Gibsons, pour a few brews and break bread amongst ourselves and we all should have a good time.
> 
> That is what I'll be there for.  There's people I haven't met (Tom Bolden, Hoch Hockeim, etc.) and some I haven't seen in quite a while (Dieter, Shishir, etc.) and new and old friends I'd like to see again.  Personally, I predict Saturday night, done right, is going to go late into the evening.  I, for one, am going to "close the place down" with a big smile on my face and be ready to teach the next day.
> 
> Dan
> *



Dan, :drinkbeer:

Yes, the Canadians can bring down some good beer.  
I would like to help you close the place down
Dan, and if I have not paid up on the winning
slogan beer, that would be a great time to
collect it.  

This sounds like it is really shaping up nicely. :boing1:


Rich


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dan Anderson _
> 
> *
> 
> Jerome,
> Hell, give me the chance to teach and I can teach and talk  for three days straight.  Ask any of my students when it's time for class to end and I am in "teach & lecture" mode.
> 
> Humor aside, an evening demo of the instructors and seniors would be great.  I think the trick would be to keep it short and find out in advance who is going to demo what so the scheduling will be varied.  You don't want 6 instructors demonstrating anyos 1-4 back to back.  It will make it more entertaining that way.
> 
> We also don't need to "talk in a formal presentation."  I think get some of the Canadians to bring down some Gibsons, pour a few brews and break bread amongst ourselves and we all should have a good time.
> 
> That is what I'll be there for.  There's people I haven't met (Tom Bolden, Hoch Hockeim, etc.) and some I haven't seen in quite a while (Dieter, Shishir, etc.) and new and old friends I'd like to see again.  Personally, I predict Saturday night, done right, is going to go late into the evening.  I, for one, am going to "close the place down" with a big smile on my face and be ready to teach the next day.
> 
> Dan
> *



OK, Dan, you're on and I fully expect that you will have ample opportunity to talk and teach, but I am looking for more teaching than talking!!

Has anyone contacted Hock and Shishir?  Would they be interested in participating?  I have contacted, Dr. Schea, Mr. Delaney and Ms. McManus.  Only Ms. McManus has replied thus 
far and I hope to have her in attendence next year.  She has not declined the invitation for the 2003 Symposium.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber. Ed.D.


----------



## Dan Anderson

Jerome,
I tried to get ahold of Randi Schea but haven't gotten through yet.  The best possibility is to get ahold of him by phone.  I think Tim Hartman has his number.
Dan
PS - There will be lots of teaching coming out of me.  You can bet on that.


----------



## Rich Parsons

I know it is a little early to be asking for 
details and updates.

But to Jerome and the others involved if we could
have a post here or somewhere every few weeks
or at least once a month to let everyone know
every thing is still going great. 

I think a lot of people are very interested,
and it would be nice to keep that level of
interested. 

Just my thoughts

Rich


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *I know it is a little early to be asking for
> details and updates.
> 
> But to Jerome and the others involved if we could
> have a post here or somewhere every few weeks
> or at least once a month to let everyone know
> every thing is still going great.
> 
> I think a lot of people are very interested,
> and it would be nice to keep that level of
> interested.
> 
> Just my thoughts
> 
> Rich *



Hi Rich,

I will do my best to keep some news coming forward from time to time.  I have zeroed in on the second weekend in July 2003 for the Symposium.  One question that I have for people intersted in attending is would they prefer a Thursday-Friday-Saturday schedule or a Friday-Saturday-Sunday schedule?

I have sent e-mails out to Jeff Delaney, Randi Schea and Lisa McManus, inviting them to participate in the Symposium.  Delaney and McManus have responded, but they are not fully committed to be there as of this writing.

I would like to get the e-mail addresses for the individual MoTTs, so that I can send each of them a personal invitation to participate.  Please send the addresses to me via private e-mail, thanks in advance. 

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Rich Parsons

Thank you DoctorB

This is exactly the type of information I was thinking of.
It will allow people to know who is considering, and thereby
making the event even more fun and enjoyable.

Thank you

Rich


----------



## Dieter

Hi Jerome,

any news about the date yet?

Anyway, I just took part at a very good seminar of Hoch Hochheim here in Germany  and he told me to say hello to you from him and that he is also interested to come to the symposium. 
So you might contact him.

Best regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Dieter _
> 
> *Hi Jerome,
> 
> any news about the date yet?
> 
> Anyway, I just took part at a very good seminar of Hoch Hochheim here in Germany  and he told me to say hello to you from him and that he is also interested to come to the symposium.
> So you might contact him.
> 
> Best regards from Germany
> 
> 
> Dieter Knüttel
> Datu of Modern Arnis *



Hello Dieter,

Thank you for passing along the message from Hock.  I will get in contact with him later today.  If he can attend the Symposium, I would certinly welcome him and that would give us two prominent advocates of the use of the knife from the Modern Arnis perspective.

The exact dates are still in flux, mainly because of the announcement that Buffalo will the site for the "Empire Sate Games" in 2003.  The Olympic-style games are running from July 23 - 27 and several hotels in the area have been holding off setting up group rates and large block room reservations until the site of the games were announced.  Now I can go back and work with these hotels and venue sites because I will have at least a week between the ending of the Symposium and the begining of the ESG programs. 

Things will come together fairly soon now that the ESG dates and city have been selected.

I have also been looking into some of the sites and attractions that might be of interest to our Symposium guests.  Niagara Falls is about 30 miles north of Buffalo and a very easy drive away.  That would be an excellent evening trip and the light show after sunset is beautiful.  There is a first class art gallery and several small museums, include our newest, the Pierce-Arrow Automobile Museum that opened earlier this year.  There are also some excellent places to eat in this town, including the original place where the "Buffalo Chicken Wings" were first served.  There are also several micro-brewries where good food, good beer and converstaion are availible.  In addition, if the local Triple A baseball team is in town, that makes for a great night at the ballpark.  Ticket prices are very reasonable.  For those who are intersted in architecture, there are five Frank Lloyd Write designed homes and the Frederick Law Omstead Park systems.  My goal is to have something beyond the Symposium for people to explore when they get here.

More will be posted as the information develops.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

Good day to All,

The planning has slowed down just a bit for the 2003 Symposium as I work with several possible venues and cost issues.  The major task is to get a reasonable balance between costs and expenses so that the lowest possible fee can be charged back to the final consumers - the people who will actually attend the event.

Several issues are at the forefront, namely accomedation costs, hall or event site costs and insurance coverage.  After that I can look into the possibilty of a banquet, but as of now that is on the very rear-most burner.

A sugestion that I have received from several people deals with a discussion session or roundtable at or associated with the 2003 MA Symposium - in summary the idea is to discuss "Skill as Rank: Rank without Belts".

In other words allowing one's technical and applied skills, plus teaching ability determine the "real level" of rank that one has attained.  certificates and titles are nice, but isn't the final determination really built around performance?

Your comments would be most welcomed.

Another area that could be explored is a physical one:
"Arnis Anyos, Forms, Sets and Sayaws".  The idea here would be to allow people to demonstrate and explain the pre-arranged training groupings.  Professor taught a number of empty hand ans stick anyos.  There are several ways that people present these anyos.  It would be fun to work with and explore the various different interpetations of these anyos.  Others have added to or created their own anyos, sets and sayaws.

Again your comments would be welcomed.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## Rich Parsons

DoctorB,

Question, do you have a list of the prospective instructors, or would you like to wait until you get more feedback from anyone you are still waiting for a reply from?

Just curious

Rich
:asian:


----------



## Dieter

> The exact dates are still in flux, mainly because of the announcement that Buffalo will the site for the "Empire Sate Games" in 2003. The Olympic-style games are running from July 23 - 27 and several hotels in the area have been holding off setting up group rates and large block room reservations until the site of the games were announced.



Hi Jerome,

just a short suggestion:

you wrote, that there will be the "Empire Sate Games" from July 23 - 27. Thats why you wanted to make the symposium before that date. My question would be:

Isn´t it more sensible to make the symposium AFTER the Empire states games, because before, the teams fore the games might come early to get used to the area and train before and will also take up hotes vacancies, training halls, conference rooms etc., and perhaps after the games all the teams will leave  straight away so that it might be a little easier to get the rooms, halls etc..

Just a thought, also, because for me a later date would be MUCH more convenient too.

Anyway, perhaps it is worth a check.


Best regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
DATU of Modern Arnis


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> 
> *DoctorB,
> 
> Question, do you have a list of the prospective instructors, or would you like to wait until you get more feedback from anyone you are still waiting for a reply from?
> 
> Just curious
> 
> Rich
> :asian: *



Hello Rich,

As of today the prospective list is unchanged:

PG Tom Bolden
Guro Bram Frank
PG Dan Anderson
Datu Tim Hartman
Guro David Ng
Guro Dan McConnell
Datu Dieter Knuttel
PG Demtrio Presas

I have taken PG Demetrio's reply to include both PG Remy Jr. and PG Mary Ann Presas, but I am reluctant to make that a firm prospective until we get closer to the event and they comfirm it.

I like that List and I would be happy with just those folks.  Obviously the list is not closed as of this date.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

I would like to make the following announcements regarding the proposed 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium.  I have a tentative venue site scheduled at Erie Community College-City Campus, in Buffalo NY.  The Symposium be held Friday through Sunday, July 11, 12 and 13 with training sessions scheduled for 6 - 9pm Friday, 9am - 6pm Saturday and 9am - 1pm Sunday.

I will begin working on the accomedations segment tomorrow and then add a Saturday lunch program at the college from 11am - 1pm because I do not want to break off the training sessions.

Thus far our original group of people interested in serving as trainers is as follows:   

PG Tom Bolden, Ameican Modern Arnis & Pancipanci Eskrima
Guro Bram Frank, Common Sense Self Defense/ The Gunting Knife 
PG Dan Anderson, Modern Arnis 80
Datu Tim Hartman, World Modern Arnis Alliance
Guro David Ng, IMAF, Inc.
Guro Dan McConnell, IMAF, Inc.
Datu Dieter Knuttel, Modern Arnis-Germany
PG Demtrio Presas, MARPPIO

During the past 2 weeks I have been contacted regarding the possibility of adding the following instructors to the list:

Sifu Peter Vargas, Pancipanci Eskrima
Sensei Dawud Muhammad, Modern Arnis
Guro Bruce Chiu, Modern Arnis

Things are coming slowly together and I am also working on a logo for the symposium.  I am leaving the slogan writing to others and there have been some good ideas expressed on another related thread.  Please check it out and add your ideas to the mix.

Sincerely,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> 
> *I would like to make the following announcements regarding the proposed 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium.  I have a tentative venue site scheduled at Erie Community College-City Campus, in Buffalo NY.  The Symposium be held Friday through Sunday, July 11, 12 and 13 with training sessions scheduled for 6 - 9pm Friday, 9am - 6pm Saturday and 9am - 1pm Sunday.
> 
> Thus far our original group of people interested in serving as trainers is as follows:
> 
> PG Tom Bolden, Ameican Modern Arnis & Pancipanci Eskrima
> Guro Bram Frank, Common Sense Self Defense/ The Gunting Knife
> PG Dan Anderson, Modern Arnis 80
> Datu Tim Hartman, World Modern Arnis Alliance
> Guro David Ng, IMAF, Inc.
> Guro Dan McConnell, IMAF, Inc.
> Datu Dieter Knuttel, Modern Arnis-Germany
> PG Demtrio Presas, MARPPIO
> 
> During the past 2 weeks I have been contacted regarding the possibility of adding the following instructors to the list:
> 
> Sifu Peter Vargas, Pancipanci Eskrima
> Sensei Dawud Muhammad, Modern Arnis
> Guro Bruce Chiu, Modern Arnis
> 
> *



I have just confirmed that Datu Kelly Worden, has requested to be a member of the instructional group at the upcoming 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium.  So it is time to revise your lists and keep watching us for more developments.  Understand something, people, I am predicting that this Symposium is going to be THE Major Modern Arnis Event of 2003!!!!  People will miss it at their own risk and then later lie about having been there!!!

With Regards to All,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


----------



## dearnis.com

Dr. B.; 

   Quick question for you.....  First, glad to see that Guro Bruce Chiu might be on the mat; I havent seen him in years.  (can't comment about Dawud Muhammad; he is a good friend and I am biased....more years in the martial arts than most of have been alive AND one of the nicest people you will ever meet!)
  I'm not familar with Sifu Vargas; could you give us a little background on his involvement with Professor?
  Thanks much!
Chad


----------



## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by dearnis.com _
> 
> *Dr. B.;
> 
> Quick question for you.....  First, glad to see that Guro Bruce Chiu might be on the mat; I havent seen him in years.  (can't comment about Dawud Muhammad; he is a good friend and I am biased....more years in the martial arts than most of have been alive AND one of the nicest people you will ever meet!)
> I'm not familar with Sifu Vargas; could you give us a little background on his involvement with Professor?
> Thanks much!
> Chad *



Hello Chad,

It would be wonderful if you would post your comments and impressions about Sensei Dawud... I was very impressed with his instructional skills and knowledge at the recent Escrima-Kenpo Camp that we had in Buffalo.  I will not hesitate in saying that Sensei Dwaud is a Very Accomplished martial artist and instructor.
Tom Bolden and I first met him in Las Vegas, last summer at the Gathering of Eagles event.  He was a participant in our seminars, but he did not do any instructing, however we both agreed that he was very good and that we wanted to feature him at an event that we were involved in at some point thereafter.  Our first impressions were more than verified, because Sensei Dawud did two very impressive presentations at the camp.

Sifu Peter Vargas, is a student of PG Tom Bolden and he attended several seminars with Professor in Poughkeepsie, NY.  He also gave us two wonderful prsentations at the recent Eskrima - Kenpo Camp and I believe that he will have a number of people gasping for air if he has the opportunity to present at the Symposium.  He is big man who moves with a great deal of style and grace.  His stick work is solid, quick and powerful, his empty hand translations are flawless.  In addition he has also spent some time studying the art of Balintawak under GM Bobby Taboada, although he is not ranked in the system as of this writing.

Of course, one of the goals of the Symposium is to introduce people to one another and to give us all a chance to see and work with someone we have not previously known or met.  I really enjoy making those kinds of things happen because it also means that my students and I get to meet new people as well.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## DoctorB

Hello to All,

I have been informed that we can add three new people to our list of potential instructors for the 2003 Symposium:

Datu Kelly Worden 
Datu Shishir Innocalla
Senior Master Douglas Pierre

The original group of people interested in serving as trainers is as follows: 

PG Tom Bolden, Ameican Modern Arnis & Pancipanci Eskrima
Guro Bram Frank, Common Sense Self Defense/ The Gunting Knife 
PG Dan Anderson, Modern Arnis 80
Datu Tim Hartman, World Modern Arnis Alliance
Guro David Ng, IMAF, Inc.
Guro Dan McConnell, IMAF, Inc.
Datu Dieter Knuttel, Modern Arnis-Germany
PG Demtrio Presas, MARPPIO

Earlier I posted that I had beeen contacted about adding the following instructors to the list:

Sifu Peter Vargas - American Modern Arnis
Guro Dawud Muhammad - International Modern Arnis
Guro Bruce Chiu - International Modern Arnis

This morning I made my initial contact with a person to assist with the facility planning for the 2003 Symposium.  The program 
is becoming larger than I first anticipated - which is good in most ways, so I am not complaining.  With 14 to 16 potential instrutors,
I need to consider a larger venue than the original ECC site that I had selected.  In addition, I need to reconsider the hours that would be availible for instruction at that site.  Then there is the matter of lodging for out of town participants.  I can anticipate the need for more rooms than I currently have under consideration.

Oh well, that is just the way things are going and the problems are actually managable at this point, if I stay on top of the matter and get some aditional help.

So how is the slogan search going?  Any news, any consensus?
I have a logo idea that I am working on, and I will be asking asking for some opinions as soon as I have a prototype(s) ready for viewing.  My first task is to draw the ideas out by hand then get someone to do the graphic workup.

So that completes my Symposium update at this point.

Respectfully,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> 
> *Hello to All,
> 
> Datu Kelly Worden - WMAC
> Datu Shishir Innocalla - Modern Arnis Philippines
> Senior Master Douglas Pierre - Modern Arnis Domog
> PG Tom Bolden, Ameican Modern Arnis & Pancipanci Eskrima
> Guro Bram Frank, Common Sense Self Defense/ The Gunting Knife
> PG Dan Anderson, Modern Arnis 80
> Datu Tim Hartman, World Modern Arnis Alliance
> Guro David Ng, IMAF, Inc.
> Guro Dan McConnell, IMAF, Inc.
> Datu Dieter Knuttel, Modern Arnis-Germany
> PG Demtrio Presas, MARPPIO
> Sifu Peter Vargas - American Modern Arnis
> Guro Dawud Muhammad - International Modern Arnis
> Guro Bruce Chiu - International Modern Arnis
> 
> *



I just want to remind everyone that the people listed above are interested in teaching at the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium.  I also want to inform everyone that there have not been any new additions as of this date, nor have there been any requests to be withdrawn from the program.  The Symposium planing will be going forward on Friday of this week when I have another opportunity to speak with my facilities ccordinator.  The goal is to establish a definative site and get the cost under control so that i can publish the fee structor as soon as possible.

I have noticed over the past few months that no one seems ready to acknowledge that are some very clear differences between various schools of thought regarding Modern Arnis AND each of those schools of thought contain some "truths" within the art; therefore I am again suggesting that people just might want to attend the upcoming Gunting Knife Seminar with Master Bram Frank. Master Frank, will be one of the presenters at the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium. Some of you have absolutely no knowledge about or experience with the Gunting Knife, so attending the seminar on the 29th, will give you a big step up on some of the people who will be attending next year.

I have been reviewing Guro Bram Frank's manuscript, 
"Conceptual Modern Arnis", that is at Paldin Press, undergoing the final editing process for publication and I came across the following statement that I thought might be of interest to some of the people on this forum. The quote is taken from Chapter 19: "The truth in Using Sticks: steel hidden within".

"In Modern Arnis translation is everything. One needs to understand where Modern Arnis came from and where it's going. Modern Arnis embodies the conceptual core of Filipino fighting arts. The understanding of the conceptual usage of those arts is the goal of those that study the art. It is the art within the art. The soul of Filipino fighting is the blade. The soul of Modern Arnis is the blade as well. With that thought in mind I designed a Modern Arnis tactical folding knife made by SPYDERCO: The GUNTING. The GUNTING is the only tactical folder designed to do translations from empty hand all the way to cutting and it opens within the flow of usage. (It is) the ONLY kinetic opening knife in the world and it was designed to use the concepts of Modern Arnis." 

Given this very strong statement by Guro Frank, I was wondering what others think of his contentions that that Filipino Martial Arts and Modern Arnis as one of those arts is Blade Oriented? I have read a number of posts by Guro Frank, in which he contends that some of the practices and training drills taught by the late Professor Presas, would be counter-productive to use, if a blade were being used by an opponent. 

He has invited Modern Arnis instructors, particularly those of recent years to train with him and he would demonstrate how and why some of the training drills would result in injury, if not death if the student followed precisely the drill format as taught by Professor.

If he is correct, then some adjustments need to be made and the conceptualization process needs to be implimented by many Modern Arnis practictioners. There are certinaly going to be some people in Modern arnis who are in disagreement with Guro Frank's contentions. But ultimately the proof is in the application of the techniques, in real time training with and without the knife or a larger blade.

The GUNTING is a unique knife design and it is the ONLY kinetic opening folding knife on the market today. On Sunday, September 29, at the International Schools of Self Defense, 5901 South Transit Road, Lockport NY, between 2 & 5pm, Guro Frank will be teaching a seminar on the GUNTING KNIFE. The seminar fee is $55 in advance (before September 25) and $70 at the door. Write me for more information, if you are interested in attending. 

Your comments and observations would be greatly appriciated.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## dearnis.com

Maybe we could have two new threads out of Dr. Barber's last post.  There was some mention a while back of posting short "about the instructors" sections for the proposed symposium teachers; I am sure that I am not the only one who would be interested.
I think the comments raised about knife verus stick translations are maybe a bit off this topic; so maybe a second new thread.
I have my own views on blade use within Modern Arnis, but I am reluctant to comment on Bram's written work until I have a chance to read the final product.
Chad


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## DoctorB

Good Morning to All,

I would like to report the following updates on the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium:

The training site will be at the Erie Community College City Campus Fieldhouse, in Buffalo, NY - July 11, 12 and 13, 2003.
We will have the Gymnasium floor and Mini-Gym for training and that will allow us to put three (3) to four (4) instructors on the floor per hourly teaching segment.  I am working on the basic teaching schedule right now and I am trying to insure that each instructor will have a minimum of 3 teaching opportunities during the weekend.  Therefore the attendees will have ample opportunities to see each instructor at least once during the weekend.  The general teaching hours will be 6 - 9pm Friday, July 11, 9am - 6pm, Saturday, July 12 and 9am - 1 pm, Sunday, July 13.   

The fee schedule for the Symposim event itself, excluding lodging will be as follows:

$250 if paid in January & February 2003; $100 deposit
$300 if paid in March & April 2003; $125 deposit
$350 if paid in May & June 2003; $150 deposit
$400 at the Door
Group rates for 5 - 9 and 10+ will be available upon request.
There are no price exceptions - do not ask.
Deposits are acceptable during each of the 2 month payment blocks and these deposits will be non-refundable.

Each instructor will be required to provide me with proof of liabilty insurance coverage or they will be assessed a fee to be covered under the genral insurance plan that I will have to provide for the college.  If an instructor is not insured on their own or under the general program that I have to purchase, then they will not be allowed to teach at the Symposium.

As soon as the paper work is signed for the lodging, I will forward that information to this forum, along with the block registration ID numbers.  Please be aware that I have been able to secure only 135 rooms for double occupancy, at three hotels within the city.
Buffalo is going to overrun with conventions and the Empire State Games in June, July and early August, therefore each person who is planning to attend the Modern Arnis Symposium will have to make their room accomedations at least ten (10) days PRIOR to July 1 or the group/block reservations will be closed and a much higher individual daily rate will apply.

Since I have now provided everyone with a 3 month advanced announcement period to secure at least the down payment, the burden shift entirely to each person to determine if they want to participate in this event.  You can begin your financial planning and you do not have to make any payments before January 1, 2003.

Respectfully,

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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## DoctorB

> _Originally posted by DoctorB _
> 
> *Good Morning to All,
> 
> I would like to report the following updates on the 2003 Modern Arnis Symposium:
> 
> The training site will be at the Erie Community College City Campus Fieldhouse, in Buffalo, NY - July 11, 12 and 13, 2003.
> We will have the Gymnasium floor and Mini-Gym for training and that will allow us to put three (3) to four (4) instructors on the floor per hourly teaching segment.  I am working on the basic teaching schedule right now and I am trying to insure that each instructor will have a minimum of 3 teaching opportunities during the weekend.  Therefore the attendees will have ample opportunities to see each instructor at least once during the weekend.  The general teaching hours will be 6 - 9pm Friday, July 11, 9am - 6pm, Saturday, July 12 and 9am - 1 pm, Sunday, July 13.
> 
> The fee schedule for the Symposim event itself, excluding lodging will be as follows:
> 
> $250 if paid in January & February 2003; $100 deposit
> $300 if paid in March & April 2003; $125 deposit
> $350 if paid in May & June 2003; $150 deposit
> $400 at the Door
> Group rates for 5 - 9 and 10+ will be available upon request.
> There are no price exceptions - do not ask.
> Deposits are acceptable during each of the 2 month payment blocks and these deposits will be non-refundable.
> 
> As soon as the paper work is signed for the lodging, I will forward that information to this forum, along with the block registration ID numbers.  Please be aware that I have been able to secure only 135 rooms for double occupancy, at three hotels within the city.
> Buffalo is going to overrun with conventions and the Empire State Games in June, July and early August, therefore each person who is planning to attend the Modern Arnis Symposium will have to make their room accomedations at least ten (10) days PRIOR to July 1 or the group/block reservations will be closed and a much higher individual daily rate will apply.
> 
> *



The first hotel to give us a group rate is the Holiday Inn, Downtown, in Buffalo, NY.  The rate is $99 for a double and $109 for a triple occupancy.  The group rate is listed under "Modern Arnis Symposium".

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.


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