# Differences in the biu jee set...



## vankuen (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm someone who likes to learn about the ways that _anyone _studies wing chun. I compare everything with what I know, and see if there's anything there in the way someone else does something that I might be able to gain insight from.  

That said, I was looking through some old VHS tapes and found a biu jee set from the Ho Kam Ming --> Augustine Fong lineage. I popped in the VCR (after having to go and find it) and noticed some things I didn't realize before.  That particular set had some "extra" movements in it (kicks, steps, grappling movements). The order of the sections was done differently, and there was of course some minor differences as well in the way the movements were done like angles and the like. 

But it got me thinking about the different ways different lineages did things. Even different people of the same teachers. So I started to look around at different BJ sets (on you tube). I saw WSL, LT, and in looking at them they all have some pretty distinct differences. 

For those of you who have seen sets from other lineages, why do you think those differences exist? 

And/or, if you've like to discuss your own version of biu jee and the lessons learned from it please do. I'd like to hear the various experiences of folks on here as I think differences in the way we do things can help us to understand WC as a whole because with all the different versions...there's a universal truth out there as well.


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## geezer (Mar 16, 2010)

The more advanced sets vary more than the basic ones, Siu Nim Tau and Chum Kiu. This is because far more people were taught the basic sets and they are well known. The advanced sets were taught to fewer people, and Grandmaster Yip made changes in them himself over the many years that he taught. And, even within his lineage, not everyone learned directly from him, and over the years since his passing, his many followers have added their own modifications. Some practice just what they learned, some have made changes and are open about this, others have made up whole sections themselves and then insist that their version alone is the only correct version... as if there can even be such a thing. 

The Biu Tze set I practice comes down from the WT lineage (although I no longer am associated with that organization). I cannot tell you how closely it resembles what all the other groups teach. My old sifu, LT, claimed that it was close to what Grandmaster Yip taught at in his last years. And, even this set went through some modifications by LT in the late 80s/early 90s. LT thoroughly discusses his reasons for thes changes in his book, _Biu Tze_. BTW all the videos I've seen are the earlier version, as is the poster sold by Wing Lam. 

At any rate, I do not believe you can judge the merit of _any_ version of the form apart from it's applications. And, some of these applications are not readily apparent from the outward appearance of the movements as they appear in the forms themselves. All the forms in WC/WT/VT are to a large degree _like learning an alphabet_. Learning the letters alone doesn't tell you what words you will be able to write. While it is interesting to compare different versions of the form as you find them, it is far more instructive if you can compare what people _actually do_ with these movements, if you can find someone who both _knows_ and is _willing to share_ with someone outside their group!

Finally, apart from the applications of the movements within each form, it is important to consider what regular training of a form _does to you_. My current instructor is always telling me that if I would spend more time actually doing Biu Tze, instead of sitting around and talking (like right now), I would begin to reap the benefit of the peculiar blend of stretching, conditioning, and muscle memory the form teaches your body... eventually producing physiological changes that facilitate a higher level of performance.  That said, maybe I should sign-off and go train a bit. See-ya.


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## Vajramusti (Mar 16, 2010)

Vankuen sez:That said, I was looking through some old VHS tapes and found a biu jee  set from the Ho Kam Ming --> Augustine Fong lineage. I popped in the  VCR (after having to go and find it) and noticed some things I didn't  realize before.  That particular set had some "extra" movements in it  (kicks, steps, grappling movements). The order of the sections was done  differently, and there was of co......
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I have seen both their forms. Fong Sifu's biu jee ending is his and done for 
some skill developments that he wanted to teach.

Both have the same principles- they have their own teaching styles.

I have to go off to teach soon.

Cheers, Joy


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## KamonGuy2 (Mar 22, 2010)

A primary reason for doing forms / katas / patterns is very simple. If you are alone training in some remote location - how will you train your wing chun. How will you remember the moves and develop energy by just training on your own. I often cant remember waht I had for dinner last week, so how would you remember ALL the moves that were taught to you in your wing chun career. 

The forms encompass pretty much every basic movement within wing chun, and because they are done with certain rythum and flow they are very easy to remember. I expect most of you can do siu nim tao without even thinking about it, but if I asked you to show me each individual movement on their own, (and you dint know the form) you would probably forget

There will always be differences between styles, but each federation/school should have its own approach when teaching and know why they are teaching you the form. If you see two kicks done instead of just one, dont panic!


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## GHETTO NINJA (Mar 22, 2010)

every person is diffrent so theyll will put there own twist on things


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## mook jong man (Mar 22, 2010)

In the TST lineage ours is pretty much the same as WSL's with the exception of the first bit after the punch .

In WSL's version he seems to move his whole wrist up and down and from side to side , in our version we keep the wrist still and only move the fingers up and down and from side to side.


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