# New here - Have a small issue



## Andrew1310 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hi everyone, 

I just took up Taekwondo and we are beginning to spar, problem is im being matched up with women. 

Now don't take me wrong, these women are good, really good, and would absolutely wreck me in a fight, but I cannot bring myself to hit them back with my full strength. 

I'm still learning, my technique is way off still and my balance is far from perfect, but every time I get matched up with a woman opponent I freeze up. 

Does this happen to other people?


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

Better learn to get over it quick or you’ll get your *** kicked


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## Andrew1310 (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks, super helpful


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> but I cannot bring myself to hit them back with my full strength


In my opinion training partners shouldn't hit each other with full strength during sparring. There's no need to do that in order to learn how to apply the technique.   If someone stronger than you thought that he should be hitting you full strength then you wouldn't last long.  You'll probably end up with injuries that would take time to heal, cuts down on training time.  And you definitely wouldn't enjoy being beat up every time you spar.

During sparring training partners have to be concerned for each others safety.  Sparring is great because people can lower the power and still train the techniques without going full power.

If the women can actually beat you in a fight, then you shouldn't have any uneasiness in sparring with them.  Just lower the power and work the technique.  What I do in training is to match the power that I receive.


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> In my opinion training partners shouldn't hit each other with full strength during sparring. There's no need to do that in order to learn how to apply the technique.   If someone stronger than you thought that he should be hitting you full strength then you wouldn't last long.  You'll probably end up with injuries that would take time to heal, cuts down on training time.  And you definitely wouldn't enjoy being beat up every time you spar.
> 
> During sparring training partners have to be concerned for each others safety.  Sparring is great because people can lower the power and still train the techniques without going full power.
> 
> If the women can actually beat you in a fight, then you shouldn't have any uneasiness in sparring with them.  Just lower the power and work the technique.  What I do in training is to match the power that I receive.


Exactly I was about to say that you shouldn’t be going full strength in sparring whether it’s a man or woman. I spar the same way with women as I do with men. I keep it light and flowing. I land shots but not enough to hurt anyone. Ive no problem to hit women in sparring because well it’s sparring it’d be more disrespectful if I didn’t spar them normally


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> it’d be more disrespectful if I didn’t spar them normally


So true. It's ok to go easy on someone because of skill level, but don't do it because of someone's gender.


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## Andrew1310 (Jul 15, 2020)

No you've misunderstood completely. 

I'm not "going easy" on anyone, man or woman, I have a moral issue with physically assaulting women because my dad used to beat me and my mum when I was a kid. 

These women don't need anyone going easy on them, they train just as hard as we do, that doesn't make it any easier throwing a hook into them.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> No you've misunderstood completely.
> 
> I'm not "going easy" on anyone, man or woman, I have a moral issue with physically assaulting women because my dad used to beat me and my mum when I was a kid.



Bluntly, that's a sexist attitude. Get over it.Or get used to them kicking your butt. Were this to happen in my school, I'd make it a point to pair you with female students until you got over this attitude. Start by recognizing that you're not "assaulting" anyone. You're sparring.


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## Andrew1310 (Jul 15, 2020)

And ill be leaving now, thanks for nothing cock bags.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> I have a moral issue with physically assaulting women because my dad used to beat me and my mum when I was a kid.


You probably should have started out with this.  This is totally different from the perspectives that you were given don't aren't reflective of this.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bluntly, that's a sexist attitude. Get over it.Or get used to them kicking your butt. Were this to happen in my school, I'd make it a point to pair you with female students until you got over this attitude. Start by recognizing that you're not "assaulting" anyone. You're sparring.


This is easier said than done because of the trauma, where hitting in any manner is triggering what happened in the past.  I don't know the OP, but I could see where this could be an issue where the OP fears that he will be like his dad.

It's not just the hitting part, it's the emotional issue that a person has to deal with.


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> No you've misunderstood completely.
> 
> I'm not "going easy" on anyone, man or woman, I have a moral issue with physically assaulting women because my dad used to beat me and my mum when I was a kid.
> 
> These women don't need anyone going easy on them, they train just as hard as we do, that doesn't make it any easier throwing a hook into them.


You’re not assaulting them it’s sparring it’s mutually agreed. Assault is illegal sparring isn’t. They chose to spar they didn’t have to do but they choose to that’s the key word CHOOSE they want to fight


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> And ill be leaving now, thanks for nothing cock bags.


You’re a classy guy


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is easier said than done because of the trauma, where hitting in any manner is triggering what happened in the past.  I don't know the OP, but I could see where this could be an issue where the OP fears that he will be like his dad.
> 
> It's not just the hitting part, it's the emotional issue that a person has to deal with.


Not really I mean it’s a completely different scenario...by his scenario he should have issues hitting men as well but he doesn’t seem to. End of the day sparring is nothing like assault. It’s mutually consented everyone’s wearing protective equipment it’s in a controlled environment with an instructor watching and the person in question chose to come to the class and chose to spar if they didn’t want to get hit they wouldn’t have sparred


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is easier said than done because of the trauma, where hitting in any manner is triggering what happened in the past.  I don't know the OP, but I could see where this could be an issue where the OP fears that he will be like his dad.
> 
> It's not just the hitting part, it's the emotional issue that a person has to deal with.



Pretty much everything we do in the dojang is easier said than done.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Headhunter said:


> by his scenario he should have issues hitting men as well but he doesn’t seem to.


I don't know the OP, but most men who abuse their wives don't abuse other men,  and often don't show that same abusive nature to other people outside of a relationship.  This is why a some women in an abusive relationship have a hard time getting people to believe it, unless there are bruises to show.  The guy can be a "nice good guy" in public and a demon at home.  I could be wrong, because each situation is different.  The OP didn't give much more insight beyond that.  Not saying that he has to, just saying that it's a possibility.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Pretty much everything we do in the dojang is easier said than done.


The the OP's case shouldn't be any different then.  Meaning that sometimes it's not as easy as just hitting people, to fix emotional or mental trauma.   You could be correct about the OP.  But I don't know the OP so I can only offer possibilities.


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2020)

JowGaWolf said:


> The the OP's case shouldn't be any different then.



I agree. It shouldn't "This is what needs to be done. Go do it."


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 15, 2020)

I would honestly say, just ask not to be paired with them.       I dont think they pair males and females often in sport TKD, so it should be a issue.  (i dont recall if they do or dont, i think they generally dont, but it might be down to height and weight as to why)

I really dont see the issue with asking not to do something you morally dont want to do.   (and if you take that stance the presumption is you would rather let them beat you half to death than hit them.  Like extreme pacifists would let you kill them before they hit you back)


The reverse seems to be catered to quite well.

Addendum:  I cant remmber the precise word, but you can edventually gradually build yourself into doing it, if its something that you want to test etc at a later date.


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

Rat said:


> I would honestly say, just ask not to be paired with them.       I dont think they pair males and females often in sport TKD, so it should be a issue.  (i dont recall if they do or dont, i think they generally dont, but it might be down to height and weight as to why)
> 
> I really dont see the issue with asking not to do something you morally dont want to do.   (and if you take that stance the presumption is you would rather let them beat you half to death than hit them.  Like extreme pacifists would let you kill them before they hit you back)
> 
> ...


...in most schools the number of males Will be higher than the number of females not everywhere but most places....what if there’s only one woman there and everyone else had that attitude so the woman has no one to spar with hows that fair? If you want to learn how to fight you need to fight everyone including women. If he’s got an issue with it let him spar and get beat until he realises he has to fight back or he’ll keep getting beat


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## Headhunter (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> I agree. It shouldn't "This is what needs to be done. Go do it."


I’ve always totally disagreed with the statement “you shouldn’t hit women” no that’s rubbish it should be “you Shouldn’t hit ANYONE” man or woman you shouldn’t be hitting anyone outside a gym setting but in a gym setting I have no issue hitting anyone man or woman because it’s their choice to be there They want to spar and they’re trying to hit me. Obviously I’m not going to go 100% but I wouldn’t go 100 on men or women because that’s stupid and causes injuries.


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## ShortBridge (Jul 15, 2020)

I felt that way once upon a time. In life, I still do, but as Headhunter pointed out, I've also gotten to the point that it's really not okay to do harm to anyway, except in circumstances where it is necessary. That qualification is complicated enough without parsing traditional values and gender.

In training, I've seen some fearsome females who have developed some amazing skill. As an instructor, I love to pair up visitors and beginner/intermediate students with them, because it makes them better and helps them realize how powerful they are and because it's good training for the student.

I'm going to trust that your instructor is not putting them in danger with you and I can tell based on your question that you don't want to do harm to them, so just train. Control is WAY HARDER than brute force. Don't disrespect them by going easy on them, but whether your sparring partner is a man or woman, be respectful and train control.


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## Buka (Jul 15, 2020)

@Andrew, if you're still around, welcome to Martial Talk.

One of the things you might be able to do in your situation, at least until it changes....

When you spar with a woman - go all defense. Use footwork, blocking, slipping, ducking, parrying, anything and everything you know about defense. It's not going to be easy, especially with the better women fighters, but it will accomplish several things....you won't have to hit a woman - and you shouldn't be sparring full power anyway, I think you already know that.

And it will really sharpen your defensive skills and your ability to judge what's coming by observing body language and stance.


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## drop bear (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> Bluntly, that's a sexist attitude. Get over it.Or get used to them kicking your butt. Were this to happen in my school, I'd make it a point to pair you with female students until you got over this attitude. Start by recognizing that you're not "assaulting" anyone. You're sparring.



Would you have done the same thing to a woman who has issues due to suffering domestic abuse?


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## Dirty Dog (Jul 15, 2020)

drop bear said:


> Would you have done the same thing to a woman who has issues due to suffering domestic abuse?



I love your habit of twisting things and changing what they're about. It's so you.
The OP never said anything about being afraid of hitting women. He said he felt it was morally wrong. 
But feel free to head off down whatever tangent you like.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> He said he felt it was morally wrong.


This is what I was talking about earlier when I said that "You probably should have started out with this." The OP stated that he and his mother suffered physical abuse when he was a kid..  The real issue isn't that he felt morally wrong about.  The issue is that the experience of the abuse that he and his mother had when he was a kid has shaped his perspective about hitting women.   To me it sounds like he was trying to work on he trauma that he got and was looking for a way to gain a different perspective about it.

Instead of getting a different perspective about, he received this "Bluntly, that's a sexist attitude. Get over it"  I can only go on what the OP posted, but if I had mental and emotional wounds from my dad beating me and my mom as a kid, then the last thing I would want to hear from anyone is "That's a sexist attitude."  I'm pretty sure that's the same way he thinks about his dad and more.  Which is why he left by saying "Thanks for nothing."

If he had to deal with seeing his mother look like this as a kid because his father used to beat him.  The last thing I'm going to do is say his attitude is sexist about not wanting to hit a woman.  A kid seeing a their mom look like this on a regular because the dad beats both of them, is bound to have some mental and emotional scars to work through as an adult.  I don't know how long the OP and his mothered suffered, but a year of looking like this when the beatings come, would definitely have a negative effect over time. 

I think I would be more surprised if a kid who saw his mom look like this, doesn't group up to be super sensitive about hitting women. I don't know the OP or how bad the abuse was.  So I'm only going on the info that was given.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 15, 2020)

Dirty Dog said:


> The OP never said anything about being afraid of hitting women. He said he felt it was morally wrong.


If that moral perspective is based on having experiencing physical abuse in the house, then his perspective should be understandable.


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## Brian King (Jul 15, 2020)

Andrew1310 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just took up Taekwondo and we are beginning to spar, problem is im being matched up with women.
> 
> ...





Andrew1310 said:


> No you've misunderstood completely.
> 
> I'm not "going easy" on anyone, man or woman, I have a moral issue with physically assaulting women because my dad used to beat me and my mum when I was a kid.
> 
> These women don't need anyone going easy on them, they train just as hard as we do, that doesn't make it any easier throwing a hook into them.



Welcome to the forum Andrew1310

First, Welcome to the forum (although it looks like you might have left already- if not, stick around)

Second, No child should have to witness domestic abuse between parents. I’m sorry that you went thru that. Understand that the trauma has helped to make you who you are today – both the negative and the positive aspects of your personality.

To address the subject of the OP as I am sure someone sometime will search, and this thread will pop up on their radar even if Andrew1310 never reads this reply.

The inability to hit another person is natural. Militaries around our globe have had to spend a great deal on research and training trying to up the score of the number of soldiers that actually aim at and fire at he enemy (another human being) Colonel Grossman has a great book covering some of this  (On Killing) that I can recommend highly.  

Hitting is of course mostly different from shooting and stabbing in the reluctance is not only the reluctance of violence but there is also often a duality of fear involved. For many new to the martial arts - The fear of hurting someone and the fear of not hurting someone is not uncommon. The what if I hit them and hurt them greater than I had meant to and the equal fear of what if I hit them and do not hurt them as greatly as expected. Our empathy stops one strike and our ego the other.

Many martial arts and martial artists train to overcome this inherent restraint by inducing (righteous) anger. Other martial arts introduce sports and protective equipment to offer the picture of safe contact.
Some martial arts train their adapts to overcome this restraint by making the response an automatic nervous system response that reacts without thought to stimuli. A select few martial arts (Systema) train to overcome this restraint by slowly building up the contact and always with the perspective of helping and healing.

Here are a few drills and exercises that an instructor can introduce that will help the student who is reluctant to ‘hit’ and the student reluctant to be hit. They are also awesome drills for students who enjoy hitting and those that enjoy being hit.

Start with push-ups (press ups) because – well push-ups, that and good slow push ups help to strengthen the wrist and connective tissues that help with striking without self-injury. Then pair up and one student lays on the ground and the other ‘fist walks’ on top of that students body by doing moderately slow push-ups changing the position after each push up (without knees touching the floor) Place the fists slowly and on purpose looking for the support needed to do a good push up. After ten or so switch positions. It is important to be both the giver and the receiver. A variation is to stand one student against a wall (facing the wall or facing away from the wall) and the other student starts with a traditional plank with their fists near the standing students’ feet. Then one fist at a time place them on the standing student’s body, after each fist placement do a push up then walk the other fist up the body until both students are now standing. Both are beginner drills, but many will find them challenging. Lots of lessons for both practitioners going on. Learning where to place fists, learning how to place fists, learning how to add strength and movement to the placing of the fists. They are learning to get comfortable with contact with out so much of the fear that contact can inspire. They are also learning that their bodies and psyche can take and give contact, and no one was injured and that in fact they will feel more integrated and happy after such drills. There are many variations that gradually add movement and difficulty to practice.

Another practice is to have paired up students start with pushing drills. Both are usually standing but variations add to the learning. One student starts by simply placing their fist onto the other student’s body first one then another then another. Simply placing the fist, no pushing…yet. Both are learning where fists fit on a body and where they do not. They should take their time with this paying attention to distancing and keeping good fists and form. Do not forget contact to the face – this is important. Eventually after both have placed fists, this then changes to place the fist then push the other. For those interested in Aiki or internal type of work focus can be on capturing (or evading) the other center and pushing from that point. Again, patience will be rewarded. Push the front of the body, the back, the side, the face and head, push from kneeling vs a standing and from a standing vs a kneeling, etc. Again, both partners should be learning at the same time albeit different lessons.

The next progression of this is to have one student slowly walk towards (and thru if not stopped) their training partner. The walking partners job is to walk thru their partner while observing their partners body posture (and when they decide to stop the ‘attack learning to read others) the partner standing and ‘receiving the attack’ will reach out with their fist, place it on the walking students body and by giving just a tiny bit (absorbing- watch the elbow) stops the attack. It takes good placement and connection. It is OK to touch the face but make sure to observe both partners reactions to this. Then after a bit of this – when absorbing the attack with the fist still ‘on’ the others body push out slowly and steady pushing the walking student either straight back or off on a vector of choice.

A game of competition and sensitivity is to have both partners face each other and place one or both fists on each other’s body. The rule is that you cannot push unless you have control of the others internal center. Either can push if they have control of the other.

The difference between a push and a strike is when the force is applied. By getting used to healthy contact soon striking ability is obtained in a healthy and beneficial manner. Once pushes are comfortable, they can easily be altered into light strikes then heavy effective strikes.

If an instructor is not willing to try a few of these out just arrive a few minutes early or stay a few minutes late, grab a fellow student and get a few minutes work in. It will be worth it.

A fantastic read on strikes is Vladimir Vasiliev and Scott Merdiths book on strikes. 
https://www.amazon.com/STRIKES-Soul-Meets-Vladimir-Vasiliev-ebook/dp/B071L6SJKY

Warmest regards
Brian King


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## Steve (Jul 16, 2020)

Hey, to the OP, might not hurt to talk to someone who is trained about this.  Therapy can be really helpful.


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## Bruce7 (Jul 16, 2020)

Andrew 1310 was new. He had an important issue, he was having trouble dealing with. He was wanting some support. So we told him *get over it.* 
If we are not nice to new people, we will only talk to the same old people.


,


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## Headhunter (Jul 17, 2020)

Bruce7 said:


> Andrew 1310 was new. He had an important issue, he was having trouble dealing with. He was wanting some support. So we told him *get over it.*
> If we are not nice to new people, we will only talk to the same old people.
> 
> 
> ,


It’s what I was always told and it never hurt me. Once when I was about 22  my gym had 13 year olds in the class I didn’t really fancy hitting children. Said this to my instructor his response was “well either you don’t spar or you get over yourself and Use control and deal with it” my response “fair enough “ I got over it...he was right. My issue was dealt with in less than a minute


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