# Flexible weapons - practical?



## qwerty (May 7, 2015)

How practical are flexible weapons? In particular the rope dart and chain whip.
I haven't trained in either but here's my opinion.
Trade off between concelibility and damage: while the rope dart's easier to conceal, it does a little less damage then the chain whip, and vice versa
But does anyone have any first hand experience with these weapons?


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## Danny T (May 7, 2015)

The practicality is in the training of something that is flexible not just in the particular weapon.


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## drop bear (May 7, 2015)

I hit a guy with a belt once.


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## Transk53 (May 7, 2015)

Half or full extension? Buckle first?


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## clfsean (May 7, 2015)

qwerty said:


> How practical are flexible weapons? In particular the rope dart and chain whip.
> I haven't trained in either but here's my opinion.
> Trade off between concelibility and damage: while the rope dart's easier to conceal, it does a little less damage then the chain whip, and vice versa
> But does anyone have any first hand experience with these weapons?



Both were last ditch hold out weapons designed to create space to either move or gather a fallen melee weapon. 

But as to it's efficacy, talk to my training cousin, Frank Hatsis at RopeDart.com


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## drop bear (May 7, 2015)

Transk53 said:


> Half or full extension? Buckle first?



Half ish buckle towards bad guy.


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## Transk53 (May 8, 2015)

drop bear said:


> Half ish buckle towards bad guy.



Got hit with one when I stupidly tried to grab the bloody thing when it was arching towards me. Thankfully, the buckle hit my left bicep. Stung for a moment and left a small bruise. It was one of those big belts that go well with Levi jeans.


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## Mephisto (May 8, 2015)

The weapons mentioned in the op, are not practical for self defense. You don't want to explain to a jury why you hit a guy with a chain whip, it most likely wouldn't go well for you. I have seen some FMA guys use flexible weapons for grappling and submission/restraint that look like they could work. But I haven't seen it tried against a resisting partner. My thought on weapons is, guns is king. If you're worried about protecting yourself why use anything else? Blades are a close second but standings seem to stir up more controversy and the tables can be turned on you to make you look like the aggressor or someone who overreacted, it could happen with guns too. But it seems like you hear about more cases where a civilian defends himself with a gun and kills the attacker and no charges are filed. I don't recall hearing it happen with blades.


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## jks9199 (May 8, 2015)

How practical are flexible weapons?  Well, outlaw motorcycle gangs are fond of what can be described as a variant of the rope dart -- it appears to be a tassle on the handlebars of their bikes, and can put a serious hurting on you.  Then there's the motorcycle chain that they're of using to fight, too...

So, can they be practical?  Sure.  But, as noted above, do you really want to explain them?  If you really feel you need a weapon, get the appropriate training and licenses, and carry something real.


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## senseidave2005 (May 9, 2015)

If you have a rope in the trunk of you car it's explainable if you're forced to use it, if you have a chain(not a motorcycle chain) it's got weight and shielding ability in defense. Wrap around arm or use it between hands for deflection.... Gun is an elevation of force you still have to articulate and justify its use..... Knife just don't use yours...the law gets squirrelly when you prints are on your aggressors blade.... Training with a flexible weapon allows a variant of other things to become weapons..., not power of weapon but the power the person wielding it possesses... I may be off topic but there ya go..... 


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## Mephisto (May 9, 2015)

senseidave2005 said:


> If you have a rope in the trunk of you car it's explainable if you're forced to use it, if you have a chain(not a motorcycle chain) it's got weight and shielding ability in defense. Wrap around arm or use it between hands for deflection.... Gun is an elevation of force you still have to articulate and justify its use..... Knife just don't use yours...the law gets squirrelly when you prints are on your aggressors blade.... Training with a flexible weapon allows a variant of other things to become weapons..., not power of weapon but the power the person wielding it possesses... I may be off topic but there ya go.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The chain wrapped around the arm and between the hands for deflection thing I'm not sure is very practical. Wrapped around the arm maybe it could be used like a shield but I'm not sure it really works like we see in the movies. Between the hands? I've seen this done with a scarf and other weapons in demos, I'm still not sure its a good idea, it requires to have both arms out to keep the chain/scarf tight. It leaves you wide open, i'd like to see it done in real time with a resisting opponent, it seems plausible but I don't think it's the best approach. The two primary reasons to use a weapon are to strike the opponent from a safe distance and to multiply force, if you're not using the weapon for these two things you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. 

As for not using your own knife? I'm not sure I agree with you there either. Laws very from state to state but I think generally its safe to say that you can draw and use your own knife if you can prove your life was in danger, if the other guy is brandishing and advancing with a knife or other weapon, that certainly would count as a justifiable reason to use yours. What's more alarming is that you are suggesting to use an opponents knife against him. There are a few low percentage moves i've seen where you can control the attacking limb and cause the attacker to stab himself with his own knife while he's still holding it. But if you're suggesting that one should disarm the opponent and then stab him with his own knife you're most likely going to jail. I'm not sure what you're inferring but I'm commenting on this because I've seen it taught before and I think it's a bad idea if you're not on a battlefield. Basically, you defend an attack throw the attacker onto the ground take his blade, and proceed to stabbed the downed opponent. It might be legal if there are more guys coming at you but it's also likely that you'll end up in prison for killing an attacker after you've already ended the threat. IF someone were to walk up as you're stabbing the downed opponent it would look like murder to them. I don't necessarily agree with the law on this and it's certainly debatable but things can go very wrong and sometimes the person that was attacked can end up in trouble because some scumbag attacked him.


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## senseidave2005 (May 9, 2015)

Ah, who said I wanted to disarm the attacker I merely wish to take his attacking hand that is holding the knife he wishes to stab you with and redirect it into his own body...lol. I want to stab him with his own weapon in his own hand at his own speed using his own force.... I don't want to hold his knife or disarm him, I want the cops to show up and see a guy who has stabbed himself in the throat or ribs with what is obviously his own knife as for the chain I want to beat the guys hands and face to a pulp or use it as a whip or tool that causes damage at a distance.  I'm not talking movies I'm talking knock your teeth out with 5lbs of heavy link chain that we secure boats to a dock with not a 17 footer,  a 57 footer!  I'm not into foo foo martial arts weapons I want a tool that will rip my opponent to bits and be easily accessible.. I carry a gun, and a knife but I don't really want to use either one. But if I have to I will I haven't trained for 25 years to be caught with my pants down... Real life is the opponent we train for, use real tools... With all due respect, I carry in my trunk, a Length of chain and an axe handle... I also am trained in firearms and edged weapons.... I don't care what tool is used..... I'm going home at night. 


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