# Xingyi & Bagua Help



## CrushingFist

Hello everyone, 

So after 1year and 3 months of working overnight shift Sun-Wed 10p-8a aka NO LIFE! I am no longer working that shift or at that job. With God's luck I should be starting a new job Aug 15th Mon-Fri either 8a-4p or 12p-8p (If Im not mistaken) and this will give me back my life. Since, its a new job new shift I consider it as a new chapter of my life and my time to finally start training. 

I have started to look for potential schools of Yiquan, Xingyi and Bagua in NYC and NJ (Tri-state area) since I know there's a few Xingyi & Bagua long timers here, who can you recommend in my area? I live in Manhattan, NY and work will be in Jersey City, NJ.

In the past I was told about Tom Bisio and Frank Allen, and recently I just heard about the BlackTaoist. I really would like to find a teacher where I just won't pay him to teach me whatever he feels like, but really pass the knowledge he knows to his students or me. Life, Spiritual, Combat, experience, etc I pretty much want it all. 

Also, my older cousin has been talking me into Shaolin Temple Kung Fu (yes with the monk) because he wants a total workout and wants to exercise while he learns martial arts, is this something he can find in Xingyi or Bagua ?

I am 25yrs old 6'3ft.tall 185lbs (Slim built naturally) while my cousin is 33yrs old 5'8ft.tall stocky (190-195lbs) I would say, does either style will benefit a certain individual ? per say me tall and slim will benefit more from 1 style than another one like karate since its so physical and its a bit better for bulky folks? 

Thanks


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## Xue Sheng

Something to understand about a good CMA sifu, particularly if he is Chinese trained in China, Taiwan or Hong Kong; A good sifu knows what you are ready to learn much better than you do so if you are seriously looking for a good sifu I would forget about this bit



CrushingFist said:


> I really would like to find a teacher where I just won't pay him *to teach me whatever he feels like*, but really pass the knowledge he knows to his students or me. Life, Spiritual, Combat, experience, etc I pretty much want it all.



You go in with that attitude and likely they will teach you but not seriously you are already making it about money.

Look for a school, look at a school, watch the sifu, watch the students and then decide if you want to go there.

With that said if you are serious about Yiquan in your area you need to go over to The Rum Soaked Fist" and ask. There are a few there (one actaully) that can point you in the right direction... if you ask correctly


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## mograph

Crushingfist, a big red flag for me was the "life" and "spiritual" need. I've just witnessed a very nasty discussion between people who've looked for life guidance from a Chinese master, people who act crazy because they have no real compass of their own, even though they are in middle age and should know better. I strongly advise you, unlike them, to keep your head about you in this regard. (East Winds knows whereof I speak.)

Do not, I repeat, do not assume that a CMA teacher is a kind of Yoda-like sage whom you should emulate in any way outside the CMA lessons. Your life learning must be made up of all your life experiences, and your contact with a CMA teacher is only a small part of that. 

In other words, do not give the teacher any more power than any of your other contacts in the sense of life learning. He's not a sage, not a guru, he's a CMA teacher. Evaluate the things he says based on your own experiences, what you know to be right. Keep an open mind, of course, but don't give him absolute power in that way.

... or better yet, think of him as you would a football coach. Would you take life lessons from a football coach? No, you would see him as a man, and if he were to say something that resonates with you based on your experiences, you would consider it.


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## CrushingFist

Thanks guys, 

I guess I went a little over the line lol. 
I've been researching all the possible training of Xingyi & Bagua in NYC and some parts of NJ. 

I found Tom Bisio & Black Taoist in my potential list, I took out some because of their expensive rates since I wouldn't be able to afford it. 
I am suppose to email back the YiQuan group of NYC in 2 weeks to know if they are starting back again in Sept.

Also, maybe its good to ask but does anyone knows if Tom Bisio & Black Taoist teach Xingyi? Going by what I've been reading they're teaching Bagua to the public no where mentions Xingyi classes. 
I think Tom Bisio might be teaching Xingyi privately prob BT too. Is there a difference in the BT (Yin style Bagua) vs Tom Bisio's Bagua? 

Would it be smart to train in YiQuan if the opportunity rises rather than 1 of these Bagua teachers I mentioned? 

Last but not least, anyone heard of Lu Shui-Tian Pakua of Master Bok-nam ?


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## clfsean

BT teaches Xingyi. His teacher was BP Chan.


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## Xue Sheng

CrushingFist said:


> Lu Shui-Tian Pakua of Master Bok-nam ?



This Park Bok-Nam

I never meant him but a friend of mine trained with him for a bit and he thought Park Bok-Nam was great. 

I know that Tom Bisio and Novell Bell know Xingyiquan but I do not know if they teach it publically. There also use to be a guy on Long Island that was supposed to be pretty good but he may have gone back to China. I shall check to see if he or a student is still there teaching. And I know...Long Island is a big place and not necessarily all that close to NYC, but I shall check just the same


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## Xue Sheng

clfsean said:


> BT teaches Xingyi. His teacher was BP Chan.



That's true, BP Chan was also Frank Allen's teacher and my second sifu trained with BP Chan as well.


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## Xue Sheng

There is a way to find out if they teach Xingyiquan

Contact and ask

Black Taoist
 
Tom Bisio


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## Xue Sheng

Also look *here* under New York


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## CrushingFist

Xue Sheng said:


> Also look *here* under New York


 Yes I actually seen this a few hours ago



Xue Sheng said:


> There is a way to find out if they teach Xingyiquan
> 
> Contact and ask
> 
> Black Taoist
> 
> Tom Bisio


 I suppose this is the best way 



Xue Sheng said:


> That's true, BP Chan was also Frank Allen's teacher and my second sifu trained with BP Chan as well.


 BT and Tom Bisio are both the same style of Bagua ? 



Xue Sheng said:


> This Park Bok-Nam
> 
> I never meant him but a friend of mine trained with him for a bit and he thought Park Bok-Nam was great.
> 
> I know that Tom Bisio and Novell Bell know Xingyiquan but I do not know if they teach it publically. There also use to be a guy on Long Island that was supposed to be pretty good but he may have gone back to China. I shall check to see if he or a student is still there teaching. And I know...Long Island is a big place and not necessarily all that close to NYC, but I shall check just the same


 Thanks



clfsean said:


> BT teaches Xingyi. His teacher was BP Chan.


 Will find out


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## Xue Sheng

CrushingFist said:


> BT and Tom Bisio are both the same style of Bagua



Wouldn't really know but I don't think so.  I was talking Xingyiquan not Bagua. 

Novell Bell (Yin Bagua) and Frank Allen both studied Xingyiquan with BP Chan and possibly they both studied bagua with him as well, I don't really know. But I do know Frank Allen studies Cheng Style Bagua under Liu Jingru. Looking at Tom Bisio's site I saw Gao style Baguazhang mentioned but I am still not sure what style he teaches.

There is a Yin Style Baguazhang group in Berlin, CT that is associated with He Jinbao the inheritor of the lineage if you are interested in Yin Baguazhang


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## Xue Sheng

How about this -  David Bond Chan 

Master Chan's school is located near the intersection of Hillside Avenue and 148th St in Briarwood, Queens

It appears he has 3 hour long classes

http://davidbondchan.com/classes 

http://davidbondchan.com/video


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## CrushingFist

Xue Sheng said:


> Wouldn't really know but I don't think so.  I was talking Xingyiquan not Bagua.
> 
> Novell Bell (Yin Bagua) and Frank Allen both studied Xingyiquan with BP Chan and possibly they both studied bagua with him as well, I don't really know. But I do know Frank Allen studies Cheng Style Bagua under Liu Jingru. Looking at Tom Bisio's site I saw Gao style Baguazhang mentioned but I am still not sure what style he teaches.
> 
> There is a Yin Style Baguazhang group in Berlin, CT that is associated with He Jinbao the inheritor of the lineage if you are interested in Yin Baguazhang


 oH I was asking about both styles line Xingyi & Bagua 



Xue Sheng said:


> How about this -  David Bond Chan
> 
> Master Chan's school is located near the intersection of Hillside Avenue and 148th St in Briarwood, Queens
> 
> It appears he has 3 hour long classes
> 
> http://davidbondchan.com/classes
> 
> http://davidbondchan.com/video


 I am in Manhattan, and that part of Qnz is really far away from my home and work but I'll take a look


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## blindsage

BT has videos of Xingyi training with some of his students up on youtube, so I think it's probably a safe bet he teaches it publicly.


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## CrushingFist

blindsage said:


> BT has videos of Xingyi training with some of his students up on youtube, so I think it's probably a safe bet he teaches it publicly.


 Emailed him twice on Xingyi no response or call.


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## Xue Sheng

CrushingFist said:


> Emailed him twice on Xingyi no response or call.



Did you try and contact him via this page

But then Novell G. Bell has been around awhile it could also be he has decided to not teach much these days too. It also could be he is focusing more on Bagua, a lot of the guys that do both Xingyiquan and Baguazhang eventually end up focusing on Baguazhang. Or if he is hardcore traditionalist (and I have no way of knowing since I have never meant him) he may be looking at it from the POV that he knows better than you as to what you should learn. Meet with him first if possible and take it from there.


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## clfsean

Just go to the park where he teaches & talk to the man.


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## Xue Sheng

clfsean said:


> Just go to the park where he teaches & talk to the man.



oh sure....be simple and direct  that'll never work   :uhyeah:


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## clfsean

Xue Sheng said:


> oh sure....be simple and direct  that'll never work   :uhyeah:



It's a Southern thing... :facepalm


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## Xue Sheng

clfsean said:


> It's a Southern thing... :facepalm



phhft.... couldn't be... not enough talking for it to be a southern thing


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## clfsean

Xue Sheng said:


> phhft.... couldn't be... not enough talking for it to be a southern thing



Naw man... true southerner's don't say much to each other. 

It's the non-southerners we have to explain things to... that's why all the talking.

Mind you... I'm southern born & bred... not just CMA but real life...


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## Xue Sheng

clfsean said:


> Naw man... true southerner's don't say much to each other.
> 
> It's the non-southerners we have to explain things to... that's why all the talking.
> 
> Mind you... I'm southern born & bred... not just CMA but real life...



I'm Southern Born..... way Southern..... I am one of the few people actually born in Florida


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## CrushingFist

Xue Sheng said:


> Did you try and contact him via this page
> 
> But then Novell G. Bell has been around awhile it could also be he has decided to not teach much these days too. It also could be he is focusing more on Bagua, a lot of the guys that do both Xingyiquan and Baguazhang eventually end up focusing on Baguazhang. Or if he is hardcore traditionalist (and I have no way of knowing since I have never meant him) he may be looking at it from the POV that he knows better than you as to what you should learn. Meet with him first if possible and take it from there.


 Yes, I used that contact page . Interesting, POV. 



clfsean said:


> Just go to the park where he teaches & talk to the man.


If I knew where and when


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