# -Dragon Crane Fist



## dre2308 (May 11, 2012)

In Rou Chuan (&#26580;&#25331, the most important practicing is The Five Great  Cranes.After completing the training in Shaking Crane, Dragon Crane is  the relatively advanced training in the next level.

&#20116;&#22823;&#21517;&#40372;(The Five Great Cranes):
&#32305;&#40372; (Shaking Crane)
&#40845;&#40372; (Dragon Crane )
&#29492;&#40372;(Monkey Crane)
&#25432;&#36523;&#40372;(Vibrating Crane)
&#26757;&#40372;&#31070;&#25331;(Plum Flower crane)

White crane is one of the famous styles in southern Chinese martial art.  Dragon Crane is one of the evolved forms of white crane Grand master  Tong found in Fujian Province of China. The style's most distinguished  feature is that it combines few Tai Chi and Ba Gua's moves in  traditional white crane style.

Note: The Korean style uniforms we wear are for the purpose of grappling  while practicing our wrestling technique. We are Chinese people  practicing traditional Chinese martial arts.


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## K-man (May 11, 2012)

Thank you. I found it very interesting.      :asian:


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## WC_lun (May 11, 2012)

Interesting stuff.


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## Flying Crane (May 12, 2012)

I don't know anything about this, but that hunching he does, doesn't look good to me.  My prediction is that over time, this practice could lead to some serious spinal issues.  Slipped or compressed disks, worn down cartilage, scoliosis, that kind of thing.


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## K-man (May 12, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't know anything about this, but that hunching he does, doesn't look good to me.


I did notice the same thing.  My interest is that Goju was heavily inflluenced by Crane styles, as is Uechi Ryu.  In Goju, our stance is quite upright with a very straight spine.  Uechi Ryu Sanchin, as performed by Shinyu Gushi, has the same hunched form. 

Skip to 1.40 in video.


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## seasoned (May 12, 2012)

He does round the back a lot. 
In GoJu the slight rounding of the back, as in Sanchin, activates the Scapula for better support of the shoulders.


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## Flying Crane (May 12, 2012)

seasoned said:


> He does round the back a lot.
> In GoJu the slight rounding of the back, as in Sanchin, activates the Scapula for better support of the shoulders.



would you say that the rounding he does in the video is more extreme than the slight rounding you refer to in goju?

The way he does it in the video makes me think more of "compacting" the spine.  that just doesn't look good to me.


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## seasoned (May 12, 2012)

seasoned said:


> * He does round the back a lot. *
> *In GoJu the slight rounding of the back,* as in Sanchin, activates the Scapula for better support of the shoulders.





Flying Crane said:


> would you say that the rounding he does in the video is more extreme than the slight rounding you refer to in goju?               Wes says "Yes"
> 
> The way he does it in the video makes me think more of "compacting" the spine.  that just doesn't look good to me.



Erle Montaigue of Tai Chi world talked about the reptilian back in a few tapes I have. It almost looks like that kind of hunching up.


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## K-man (May 12, 2012)

seasoned said:


> Erle Montaigue of Tai Chi world talked about the reptilian back in a few tapes I have. It almost looks like that kind of hunching up.


Quite true, but in Erle's situation the body is relaxed, coiled, ready to strike. In the Uechi kata it is all about core strength and tensioning.

The thing I like most in the OP video is the application. I like the soft relaxed flow.  In the form there is tension in the shoulders that is causing the shoulders to rise and hunch a little. It doesn't come out in the application where the shoulders appear much more relaxed.


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## dre2308 (May 13, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> I don't know anything about this, but that hunching he does, doesn't look good to me.  My prediction is that over time, this practice could lead to some serious spinal issues.  Slipped or compressed disks, worn down cartilage, scoliosis, that kind of thing.



The demonstrator in the video has practiced the form over 30 years, but none of those issues you mentioned have ever occurred.


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## dre2308 (May 13, 2012)

K-man said:


> I did notice the same thing.  My interest is that Goju was heavily inflluenced by Crane styles, as is Uechi Ryu.  In Goju, our stance is quite upright with a very straight spine.  Uechi Ryu Sanchin, as performed by Shinyu Gushi, has the same hunched form.
> 
> Skip to 1.40 in video.



This is our version of (&#19977;&#25136Sanchin, which is called San Zhan in Chinese. 




In White Crane's text, the stance of the style is described to be *like turtle's back and crane's spine,*so-called &#40860;&#32972;&#40372;&#36523;.

Interesting video about  karate and white crane. (unfortunately, it doesn't have eng sub)





they believe that karate was greatly influenced by the *Singing crane* of china, one of the white crane branches.


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## 72ronin (May 13, 2012)

seasoned said:


> Erle Montaigue of Tai Chi world talked about the reptilian back in a few tapes I have. It almost looks like that kind of hunching up.



"C-back", alligning the spine to "activate the reptilian brain". 
  Just wanted to clear that up, cheers.


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## clfsean (May 13, 2012)

Hakka arts as well as many Fujian originated arts use the rounded back posture. It's part of the tun/to/fo/chum body mechanics they use I think. But none of them to that extreme. I can't see that being beneficial to the practitioners. A little sure. Even in CLF my upper back is rounded a smidge due to keeping my schoulders relaxed & un-tensed. But that's a bit much & doesn't (at least outwardly) appear healthy.


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## seasoned (May 13, 2012)

K-man said:


> Quite true, but in Erle's situation the body is relaxed, coiled, ready to strike. In the Uechi kata it is all about core strength and tensioning.



More of a training tool?



> The thing I like most in the OP video is the application. I like the soft relaxed flow.  In the form there is tension in the shoulders that is causing the shoulders to rise and hunch a little. It doesn't come out in the application where the shoulders appear much more relaxed.



As it is with Okinawan GoJu. Except the shoulds rotate, but don't rise up. The shoulds are where power is lost if not supported properly at the end of the technique. Very interesting video indeed..................... Thanks to the OP.


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## K-man (May 13, 2012)

dre2308 said:


> In White Crane's text, the stance of the style is described to be *like turtle's back and crane's spine,*so-called &#40860;&#32972;&#40372;&#36523;.
> 
> Interesting video about  karate and white crane. (unfortunately, it doesn't have eng sub)
> 
> ...


Thank you for this link. I found it very interesting.  The links between the Kung Fu and Goju Karate were all through it. Interesting also to see pictures of Ryu Ryuko turning up in Kung Fu schools. He was thought to be the teacher of Kanro Higaonna.

When I see Kung Fu practitioners training, I look for the karate connection.  It is so close to how we train.  :asian:


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## seasoned (May 13, 2012)

K-man said:


> Thank you for this link. I found it very interesting.  The links between the Kung Fu and Goju Karate were all through it. *Interesting also to see pictures of Ryu Ryuko turning up in Kung Fu schools. He was thought to be the teacher of Kanro Higaonna.
> *
> _*When I see Kung Fu practitioners training, I look for the karate connection*_.  It is so close to how we train.  :asian:



My feelings exactly.......................


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## dre2308 (May 13, 2012)

clfsean said:


> Hakka arts as well as many Fujian originated arts use the rounded back posture. It's part of the tun/to/fo/chum body mechanics they use I think. But none of them to that extreme. I can't see that being beneficial to the practitioners. A little sure. Even in CLF my upper back is rounded a smidge due to keeping my schoulders relaxed & un-tensed. But that's a bit much & doesn't (at least outwardly) appear healthy.



Different from the traditional white crane(short wing), The Five Great Crane are categorized as the "long wing crane", that the arms usually  extend longer in combat and the power of strike usually results from the  shoulder and the body rather than from the first two joints(wrist and elbow). 

As to the rounded back gesture, it is to benefit the power and speed of the strike and enhance inhalation. The shoulder does not raise in a tense fashion(otherwise the power from the body and agility will be limited), but it is done by the back dan tien breathing. 

you can have a look at 3:47~5:02 of the video below for some striking application.





of course, it is just the way we practice and you don't have to agree with everything I said, just for your reference

take care.


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## K-man (May 13, 2012)

Loved it, thank you. It is the first time I have seen demonstrated the heavy hands and broken timing that we use in our training. I thought the hands in a previous clip were portraying fajin and was interested to see in the footnote that that was indeed the case.  Could I ask you, what sort of training you do to develop fajin?      :asian:


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## dre2308 (May 15, 2012)

K-man said:


> Loved it, thank you. It is the first time I have seen demonstrated the heavy hands and broken timing that we use in our training. I thought the hands in a previous clip were portraying fajin and was interested to see in the footnote that that was indeed the case.  Could I ask you, what sort of training you do to develop fajin?      :asian:



To develop fajin, we practice stuffs like push hand, doing form, hitting target (like sand bag and marble), meditation and squatting.  San Zhan should be done at least 20 times per day.

Pretty much the same kind of training you can think of in every martial art, but just the style and method are different. However, in our style we really stress on chi and body coordination.


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## dre2308 (May 15, 2012)

K-man said:


> Loved it, thank you. It is the first time I have seen demonstrated the heavy hands and broken timing that we use in our training. I thought the hands in a previous clip were portraying fajin and was interested to see in the footnote that that was indeed the case.  Could I ask you, what sort of training you do to develop fajin?      :asian:



To develop fajin, we practice stuffs like push hand, doing form, hitting target (like sand bag and marble), meditation and squatting.  in our style we really stress on chi and body coordination. San Zhan should be done at least 20 times per day.

Pretty much the same kind of training you can think of in every martial art, but just the style and mechanics are different.


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