# Pil or Pal? Sip or Ship?



## IcemanSK (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm trying to get the pronounciation correct for "8th" & "10th" in Korean. I've heard 8th is across between Pil & Pal (like mall). And 10th is more like sip than ship. (I understand "ship" means something very different in Korean.

I appreciate your help.


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## Paul B (Oct 28, 2006)

IcemanSK said:


> I'm trying to get the pronounciation correct for "8th" & "10th" in Korean. I've heard 8th is across between Pil & Pal (like mall). And 10th is more like sip than ship. (I understand "ship" means something very different in Korean.
> 
> I appreciate your help.


 
I'd say 8th is more of a Ba-hl sound..and for 10th it's *definitely* Sip..if you pronounce it with the "shh" sound it means..well..not ten.:uhyeah:


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## IcemanSK (Oct 28, 2006)

Thank you for comfirming my suspicions, sir.


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## Last Fearner (Oct 29, 2006)

IcemanSK said:


> I'm trying to get the pronounciation correct for "8th" & "10th" in Korean. I've heard 8th is across between Pil & Pal (like mall). And 10th is more like sip than ship. (I understand "ship" means something very different in Korean.
> 
> I appreciate your help.


 
Iceman,

Let me try to add some info to this, and possibly offer a different answer. While you will find varying dialects in different parts of South Korea, and very different on Cheju Island (also different from North Korean speech patterns), there are some standard rules upon which you can rely.

Spelling phonetically from Korean Hangeul to English will vary widely, but I offer this explanation as it was taught to me by many Koreans, both in Taekwondo and out.

The Korean counting from "one" to "ten" (Hana: &#54616;&#45208; to Yeol: &#50676 is different, as you probably know, from places "first" through "tenth." In Taekwondo, when we count Taegeuk or Palgwe forms, and belt rank, we use the places: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

The method of counting places in Korean was borrowed from Chinese numbers.

Chinese: 1: y&#299;, 2: èr, 3: s&#257;n, 4: sì, 5: wu, 6: liù, 7: q&#299;, 8: b&#257;, 9: jiu, 10: shí

Korean: 1st: Il, 2nd: Yi, 3rd: Sam, 4th: Sa, 5th: Oh, 6th: Yuk, 7th: Chil, 8th: Pal, 9th: Gu, 10th: Ship.

Now, as for the pronunciation of "8th" place, "pal" is written as &#54036;.
The first consonant (&#12621 stands for the soft lip sound of "p" as in "pop" 
The vowel is the (&#12623 which represents the "a" sound as in "water"
The final consonant is (&#12601 which is the ending "L" sound.

As for the Korean word &#49901; "sip" or "ship," it has been taught to me that the "s" is not formed like the English sound with the tip of the tongue pressing on the roof of the mouth, but rather by forcing the tip of the tongue down into the base of the front, lower teeth. The air escaping over the tongue gives the Korean "s" an automatic soft "sh" sound.

The Korean vowel (&#12643 is represented by the English "I," however it is pronounced as the lone "E." Thus "sip" (&#49901 is written as "ship" but pronounced as "sheep" with a soft "sh" using the tip of the tongue at the base of the lower teeth.

The "other" word that was referenced: "ssip" refers to the vulva, and is written with the double "ss" (&#50489.

The double "ss" sound (&#12614 found in some Korean words is differentiated by a vocal use of the larynx, rather than a difference between an "s" or "sh."

Quote from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

"The doubled letters are &#12594; _ssang-giyeok_ (kk: _ssang-_ &#49933; "double"), &#12600; _ssang-digeut_ (tt), &#12611; _ssang-bieup_ (pp), &#12614; _ssang-siot_ (ss), and &#12617; _ssang-jieut_ (jj). Double _jamo_ do not represent geminate consonants, but rather a "tense" phonation."

It is difficult to learn the exact pronunciation of Korean words without speaking to someone who is fluent (preferably a teacher of the Korean Language), and still you will hear a variety of dialects.

I hope this helps somewhat.
CM D.J. Eisenhart


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## Paul B (Oct 29, 2006)

Hey Iceman,

This might help..just listen to the count. 

It's sometimes better to actually hear it being counted by someone fluent,no?


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## MBuzzy (Oct 30, 2006)

Last Fearner is right on.  I think that someone got confused between "ship" and "ssip."  The number 10 is actually pronounced close to the word Ship.  There is only a slight difference between how they say the "sh" and how we say it - there is much more shallow sounding and is made with the front of the tongue.

For p'al - It is pronounced like the p in pop, only a bit more aspirated...it is actually a harder sound than the normal p sound.  There are actually 3 characters for our p in the Hangul.  &#12610;: bieup can sound like a b or a p depending on its placement in a word.  &#12610;&#12610;:  ssang bieup is a very hard p sound, and lastly, &#12621;: p'ieup is a more aspirated p sound.  I only include this, because it is one of the hardest things about learning Korean.  They can definately tell a difference between the different sounds, where I have a much harder time.  Similar problems exist between t and d, k and g, and r and l....and that isn't getting into the verbs.

One last note....Koreans actually have two separate sets of numbers.  Korean and Sino-Korean (Chinese based).  The numbering system that we are talking about is obviously the Chinese based numbering system.  Knowing when to use which numbering system is also VERY difficult.  The basic rule of thumb is that the Korean system is used with countwords and the Sino-Korean system is used with more specific sets of things...dates, times, money, foreign words, etc.  The only way to learn is to practice.  Actually...Korean times are told in a mixture...the Korean numbers for the hour and Sino-Korean for minutes and seconds.


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## MBuzzy (Oct 30, 2006)

One other note that I just thought of...I am in a rural, southern part of Korea where the dialect is slightly different than around Seoul.  The sounds of the letters don't change much, but pronunciation does vary from area to area.


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