# Sword attack in NYC.



## arnisador (Dec 9, 2003)

http://www.local6.com/news/2689421/detail.html



> *NEW YORK* -- A man slashed his wife to death with a sword Sunday in their Bronx apartment and charged police screaming "I'm God! Kill me!" when they came to investigate, officials said.
> 
> Ivor Forbes, 32, was naked and covered in blood when he rushed out the door of the apartment, police said. One officer fired 14 shots that left both Forbes and another officer wounded.
> 
> Forbes' wife, 24-year-old Kisha Denton, was pronounced dead at Jacobi Medical Center. Forbes had severed her left hand and repeatedly slashed her head, police said.


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## Bob Hubbard (Dec 10, 2003)

> One officer fired 14 shots that left both Forbes and another officer wounded.



14 shots?  Whats the standard side arm in NYC, and standard load?  In any event, isn't 14 rounds excessive?  Expecially when you shoot your own people?


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## OULobo (Dec 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *14 shots?  Whats the standard side arm in NYC, and standard load?  In any event, isn't 14 rounds excessive?  Expecially when you shoot your own people? *



Sounds like his reaction was influenced by a bit of fear. I think I'd be pretty scared if some guy came out soaked in blood carrying a sword and screaming that he is God. I just can't figure out how he hit is own while firing. I thought most sidearms had 12 rounds. If so then that means he reloaded, now I think that is excessive.


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## Cruentus (Dec 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *14 shots?  Whats the standard side arm in NYC, and standard load?  In any event, isn't 14 rounds excessive?  Expecially when you shoot your own people? *



Depends on how many rounds actually hit the sword wielder. If a round hit one of his own guys, I am already questioning his aim. Also, the guy could have been wacked out enough to not go down after taking a few rounds, or to try to get up and continue the attack after taking a few, causing him to have to reload and fire 2 more shots into the attacker. You never know....I just have a hard time believing that the cop is going to reload and fire 2 more rounds for no good reason other then to be excessive.

This is all assuming that the report is correct, when they often screw up the details.

PAUL


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## satans.barber (Dec 10, 2003)

Another religious nutter bites the dust....it's so sad that they always have to take someone with them, that poor woman must have been in such pain  

Ian.


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## sercuerdasfigther (Dec 10, 2003)

ther are police capacity magazines which hold 15 rounds.


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## Dijos (Dec 10, 2003)

The NYPD issue is a Glock 22, if I'm not mistaken.--Joe


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## M F (Dec 12, 2003)

> 14 shots? Whats the standard side arm in NYC, and standard load? In any event, isn't 14 rounds excessive? Expecially when you shoot your own people?





> The NYPD issue is a Glock 22, if I'm not mistaken.--



To the first quote.  Regardless of this officer's apparent bad aim, you continue to shoot until there is no longer a threat.  Period.

I have no idea what NYPD's issue weapon is, but I do know that the Glock 22 holds 15 rounds of .40.  It is my agency's issue weapon, and the most commonly issued firearm in law enforcement right now.


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## MJS (Dec 12, 2003)

I'm waiting for the family of this nut to say, "Why did they have to shoot him where they did? Why couldnt they shoot him in the legs?"  That is something that you hear ALL the time.  As for the number of shots----there are lots of different things that we can assume happened, but unless we were there, we'll probably never know the entire truth.  Was is excessive?  If he kept coming, then I'd have to say no, keep shooting until the guy is stopped.  If he went down and they kept shooting, then yeah, that would be too much.

Mike


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## Zepp (Dec 12, 2003)

I'd be willing to bet that the officer who fired was either a rookie, or had suffered some kind of knife-related trauma sometime in his life.  I'm no gun expert, but firing most of your clip at one guy with a sword seems like a definite sign of panic.


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## M F (Dec 13, 2003)

> I'm no gun expert, but firing most of your clip at one guy with a sword seems like a definite sign of panic.



You may be right on this point.  But maybe not.  Some people just don't go down from handgun rounds.  You just never know.


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by M F _
> *Some people just don't go down from handgun rounds.  You just never know. *



For example.

Yes, 14 seems like a lot of shots but in the heat of action, who knows. It certainly isn't clearly unreasonable to me.


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## OULobo (Dec 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *For example.
> 
> It certainly isn't clearly unreasonable to me. *



That's a double negative isn't it? Sorry if I'm being nit-picky. Are you sayig it is reasonable or unreasonable?


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## OULobo (Dec 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *For example.
> 
> Yes, 14 seems like a lot of shots but in the heat of action, who knows. It certainly isn't clearly unreasonable to me. *



Personally, I think a kukri though the neck would've dropped him. The trick is getting close enough to use it.


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> *That's a double negative isn't it? *



I suppose!



> *
> Sorry if I'm being nit-picky. Are you sayig it is reasonable or unreasonable? *



I'm saying it might be reasonable...I don't know enough to be able to say whether it is or is not reasonable at this point.


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## ssr (Dec 14, 2003)

If he's shooting he's using lethal force.  And lethal force is lethal force.  Use as many rounds as it takes to eliminate the threat.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *Another religious nutter bites the dust....it's so sad that they always have to take someone with them, that poor woman must have been in such pain
> 
> Ian. *



Up here, the standard RCMP service weapon is Smith & Wesson... I think the model number is 5946, but it's been a while since I had one in my hands (I was in a co-op placement at "O" Div. RCMP Headquarters in London.) Anyway, the mags are 15 rounds, so if a Mountie could be packing up to 16 shots loaded, I'm sure NYPD can, too. You know how we are up here about all the gun control and stuff!


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 13, 2004)

And I SO quoted the wrong post there, it was supposed to be the one about the 15 round magazine. Anyway, posting again is faster than going back to fix that, so yeah...


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## arnisador (Feb 8, 2004)

Samurai Road Rage:
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/...7730.0.man_flees_samurai_road_rage_attack.php


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## KenpoTex (Feb 9, 2004)

We've already established that the Glock 22 holds 15+1 (if they issue the Glock 17 in 9mm you would have 17+1). So is 14 rounds unreasonable?  Anyone familiar with firearms can tell you that it doesn't take very long to empty the mag. (especially under an adrenelin dump) in fact, he was probably only shooting for about 4 seconds give or take and due to the fact that most officers are trained based on the philosophy "shoot until they go down" that's not outside the realm of possibility.  As far as the other officer getting hit,  "who knows" maybe the subject was moving or the officer who was shooting was just stressed.


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## arnisador (Feb 13, 2004)

http://www.nbc10.com/news/2842773/detail.html

*Bucks Man To Stand Trail In Samurai-Sword Murder*


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## theletch1 (Feb 13, 2004)

arnisador said:
			
		

> http://www.nbc10.com/news/2842773/detail.html
> 
> *Bucks Man To Stand Trail In Samurai-Sword Murder*


I dunno, regardless of the guys history I tend to think that if he had intended to kill his father with a sword thrust to the back that it would have penetrated much deeper.  Sounds like maybe he screwed up the judgement on distance and skewered dear old dad.  I guess all I can really say is "What the hell were they thinking?"


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## jsbelljr83 (Feb 15, 2004)

If this is the same incident I am thinking of, the Officer was a female armed with a 14 shot 9mm.  I do believe most of her rounds missed the attacker!


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## arnisador (Feb 15, 2004)

A successful (legally as well as personally) self-defense with knife story:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2451800#post2451800


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## arnisador (May 12, 2004)

Sworrd attack in Indiana:

http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/145708-9478-009.html


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## Taimishu (May 13, 2004)

In amongst all the gun facts it is only Arnisador who seems to get the fact that a sword was used.
Ok so the LEO was a lousey shot and friendly fire strikes again we must not loose sight of the sword issue as the authorities will not and too many of these will lead to them taking an unhealthy interest in swords.

David


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## marshallbd (May 13, 2004)

Kaith Rustaz said:
			
		

> 14 shots?  Whats the standard side arm in NYC, and standard load?  In any event, isn't 14 rounds excessive?  Expecially when you shoot your own people?


15 + 1 in the chamber if its the Glock they carry.... :asian:


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