# Michael Savage



## shesulsa (Jul 20, 2008)

It appears Mike Savage has it hands down over all liberal whackos and all the studies on exactly what autism is.

That's right, folks! Mike Savage has discovered what autism is.

Listen for yourself.

This kind of infantile, asinine tirade should escort the SOB off the air. What a hack!


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## terryl965 (Jul 20, 2008)

How can people like that get airtime and have any kind of audience at all. Like he really knows anything.


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## Kacey (Jul 20, 2008)

Idiocy has sunk to a new low.


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## bluemtn (Jul 20, 2008)

Yeah, a real work of art that one is.  Obviously, he's never had any kind of interaction with a person that has autism.  Then again, he's probably got that nose stuck too high in the air to pay attention to anyone other than himself.

I second the thought that he should get booted off for those remarks!


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## Tames D (Jul 20, 2008)

Well, he IS entitled to his opinion. But it sounds like he just doesn't have a clue. 
Maybe we should pay him a visit. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.


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## punisher73 (Jul 21, 2008)

It's unfortunate for people who are autistic or have someone close to them that are autistic to have someone say something like that.  But, while I don't agree with his percentage, I do agree that some of the kids I have met that have been labeled on the autistic spectrum were kids that were allowed to misbehave by their parents.

I can only speak of my own personal experience though.  For example, my last girlfriend told me that her doctor said her child had "sensory processing disorder" which is a form of autism.  It was a family doctor who had read about it and she had never gotten a more professional (experienced in that field) opinion.  Her kid had HORRIBLE behavior when he didn't get his own way.  Well, I started watching and alot of it was him just being bratty.  Later, as I helped her raise him more I would not allow him to get away with certain behaviors and held him responsible, mysteriously his outbursts and breakdowns stopped.  She later took him to a specialist in the field who did a lot of testing and he did not have any form of autism at all.  Even after this, she couldn't admit that her kid, while generally a good kid, had bratty tendencies and would manipulate her to get his own way because it was allowed ( summation of what the doctor told her).  She then thought the doctor didn't know what she was talking about and took him to a psychiatrist who also didn't think the label was appropriate, and she STILL refused to admit that he didn't have autism. Why?  Because it was easier for her to just say he had it, then try and hold him responsible for what he was doing.

 I have had friends and known people who truely did have autistic children and I always thought it was an insult to them and what they have to go through to try and help their child,  When she would tell other people that her child was autistic when he wasn't just to get attention and excuse the behavior problems.


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

Behavior management is *always* an issue in autism and its related disorders.  Sensory processing disorder is very real but ... again ... you can work some children through and map the faulty synapses by exposure, behavior modification, etcetera.  Much of autism spectrum behavior can *appear* brat-like.

Give that kid some time and adolescence will likely reveal whether the child has a "real" problem or not.

To me, this just further demonstrates that many people don't know what autism is and rather than trying to understand it, this idiot and his die-hard followers will likely sheep along after him with this intolerance.

There will always be misdiagnosed people ... but to say autism is bratty behavior? 

That's just ignorant ********.


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## donna (Jul 21, 2008)

I dont know how easy it is to get a diagnosis in America, but here in Australia , it is an extremely difficult and drawn out process and Doctors are very reluctant to give a diagnosis even to very clear cases. It took me 12 years to get my son diagnosed as Aspergers, and my friend who's son has never talked took 5 years for her diagnosis.( our sons turn 23 this year)
You have to be seen by a *panel *of doctors, speech therapists,and psychiatrists. No one doctor can give you a diagnosis.

This "peanut" making sweeping comments, is so obviously clueless and beligerantly ignorant of the reality of Autism spectrum disorders.


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## Tez3 (Jul 21, 2008)

Oh gosh to think we had 'the cure' for autism there all the time, all we need is to tell children to stop it and behave! Wonderful, we'll tell people with cancer to stop malingering and amputees it's all in the mind etc then everyone will be just fine. what a moron!
Does he really believe this or is it a cynical attempt to shock a reaction to his radio show? Sadly though I suspect some people will now believe him and make life more difficult for those with autism and their families.


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## Archangel M (Jul 21, 2008)

More "attention through outrageous statement" from a media person. Disgusted but not too shocked.


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## Sukerkin (Jul 21, 2008)

As *Punisher* has said above, some 'diagnosed' as having this disorder are not going to be so afflicted (it being used as a convenient excuse for lack of discipline) but the fellow linked to by Georgia beggars belief .


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## Kacey (Jul 21, 2008)

As a special education teacher, I see students with a wide range of behaviors - both diagnosed and undiagnosed.  To say that 99% of children _diagnosed_ with an autism spectrum disorder (never mind the ones who are never diagnosed) is simply bratty behavior is ignorant and idiotic.  I would love for him to live for a week with the autistic, non-verbal (at least as far as speech is concerned... there's lots of screaming) twin girls that have been attending my middle school for 3 years, and I'd like to see him tell them "'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'" Believe me, their mother would be ecstatic if that worked.

Are there kids who were misdiagnosed with autism?  I'm sure there are - the autism spectrum is broad and wide-reaching, and the symptoms look different from child to child, making misdiagnosis possible; many children with autism were previously misdiagnosed as mentally retarded, and some are both, further muddying the water.  But a broad, sweeping statement such as the one Savage makes highlights his ignorance and interest in attention-mongering, and does unfortunate and untold damage to the need to find treatments to make the lives of these children better, and, hopefully, to someday find an early intervention - or better, yet a cure or preventative.


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## punisher73 (Jul 21, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Behavior management is *always* an issue in autism and its related disorders. Sensory processing disorder is very real but ... again ... you can work some children through and map the faulty synapses by exposure, behavior modification, etcetera. Much of autism spectrum behavior can *appear* brat-like.
> 
> Give that kid some time and adolescence will likely reveal whether the child has a "real" problem or not.
> 
> ...


 
I do understand that some autistic behavior comes across as "bratty" and I also understand (to some degree) the processing issues that someone with autism faces.

That is why I prefaced my statements the way I did.  I am in NO WAY saying that autistic behavior is bratty behavior.  I was talking about a kid who was sometimes bratty and the mother refused to deal with it.  Also, the more I read about autism and the other things on the spectrum, the more I noticed that his behavior DID NOT match any of the things that were listed as autistic behaviors and processing issues.  The family doctor suggested something to look into and never made a diagnosis.  She chose to use that label for many years until I talked her into getting him taken to a specialist so she could get an IP into place with his school.  When she finally did take him to a doctor, both of them agreed after testing that it was not an autistic issue.

I guess my point is this, there is a HUGE increase in the diagnosis for Autism.  Is it due to better testing methods?  I think so.  Is it due to some other causation that we don't understand?  I think so. (Many people scoff, but I have known two people whose kids were diagnosed with autism and they put them on a special diet and there are now no signs of it).  Are there some misdiagnosis, or people trying to get their kid labeled as such?  I think so.  Unfortunately, I know of people who try and get their child labeled "learning disabled" for various reasons because the state of Michigan will give you around $600 a month. 

Education is the key and people need to understand both sides of this argument for it to be cleared up and people to learn and understand what autism is.


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

he holds Masters degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and earned his Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley in Epidemiology and Nutritional Science


so, maybe not exactly "ignorant", hmm?  exaggeratng the percentage? sure...


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> he holds Masters degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and earned his Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley in Epidemiology and Nutritional Science


And he's a talk radio host? Hmmm ....




> so, maybe not exactly "ignorant", hmm?  exaggeratng the percentage? sure...



Exaggerating the percentage? That's putting it mildly, don't you think? Sorry, I believe he's either extremely ignorant (prolly all that partying before those all-night cram sessions to pass his college exams) or has been absolutely and tee-totally SOLD.  _Ninety-nine percent??_ That's either irresponsible journalism or corrupted ethics.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 21, 2008)

...okay.....and he got his MD where?


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## Ninjamom (Jul 21, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> ... or is it a cynical attempt to shock a reaction to his radio show?


Bingo!!  

I think the best thing that can be done with such an ignorant, misguided comment is to ignore it.  Unfortunately, autism is widespread enough that most people know at least one person personally with an autism diagnosis, often a child, grandchild, other relative, or friend.  Perhaps their personal knowledge of and experience with autism will do more to torpedo this guy's credibility than all our combined outrage, phone-calling, and/or letter-writing.




			
				DavidCC said:
			
		

> ...so, maybe not exactly "ignorant", hmm?


 
Nahhhhh..... I think 'ignorant' fits the situation pretty well (or at least as well as any word that won't get me banned).


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> I do understand that some autistic behavior comes across as "bratty" and I also understand (to some degree) the processing issues that someone with autism faces.
> 
> That is why I prefaced my statements the way I did.  I am in NO WAY saying that autistic behavior is bratty behavior.  I was talking about a kid who was sometimes bratty and the mother refused to deal with it.  Also, the more I read about autism and the other things on the spectrum, the more I noticed that his behavior DID NOT match any of the things that were listed as autistic behaviors and processing issues.  The family doctor suggested something to look into and never made a diagnosis.  She chose to use that label for many years until I talked her into getting him taken to a specialist so she could get an IP into place with his school.  When she finally did take him to a doctor, both of them agreed after testing that it was not an autistic issue.
> 
> ...


Please understand that I'm not trying to tell you that you were wrong with this child - I have absolutely no point of reference for the boy and his behavior.  And again, I concede that there is over-diagnosis just as there is under-diagnosis and honestly, I think the amount of each cancel each other out.

But the statement made by Mike Savage was irresponsible and if it wasn't ignorance, then it was an attempt to get a lot of press for his show in a damaging way.


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## Ninjamom (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> he holds Masters degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and earned his Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley in Epidemiology and Nutritional Science.


I checked this out a little more. His degrees are more towards the liberal arts/anthropological side, and his early writings (before he became a conservative talk radio 'shock jock') were all on homeopathic medicine.  His Bachelor's were in education and sociology (Queens College, NY), Masters were in ethnobotany and anthropology from the U of Hawaii, and his Doctoral thesis was on "Nutritional Ethnomedicine in Fiji"  

In other words, he's a botanist with a background in herbal medicine and homeopathy. 

Yup.  Ignorant.


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## Live True (Jul 21, 2008)

Unfortunately, holding master's degrees means he's had specific training and presented a thesis, but it does not guarantee that he's an expert on any topic.  It merely increases the likelihood of his base of knowledge and also that he knows about some very specific topics (ethnobiology and herbal medicine...thanks Ninjamom!).  

IMHO, a higher education implies that someone will be more open-minded and thoughtful of thier responses...especially those they put out to the public....but that is not a guarantee.  

Some folks, and I think this idiot is one, use it as a shield to put out half-baked and hate-filled nonsense.  One-The spectrum of Autism is entirely too broad to come up with this 99% figure of Savages with any degree of reliability.  Two-His statements implies that it's mainly little boys and families without dads that are diagnosed with Autism, which is complete bunk and demeaning.  Three-His rhetoric is purposefully inflammatory and skirts any real professional verbiage.

So, basically, you have a biggoted talk show host seeking attention by using pseudo terminology to sound like he knows what he's talking about.

Yes, misdiagnoses happen on both sides, as Shesulsa mentions, but his statement is incompetent and panders to an uninformed and already suspicious sheep population.   He's about as competent an authority as Dr. Phil:BSmeter:...at least in my opinion.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 21, 2008)

Ninjamom said:


> In other words, he's a botanist with a background in herbal medicine and homeopathy.
> 
> Yup. Ignorant.


 
Just of the situation, not as a whole. 

But, he is still a word I'm not allowed to say on this site though.


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

Live True said:


> Two-His statements implies that it's mainly little boys and families without dads that are diagnosed with Autism, which is complete bunk and demeaning.


I think that this is the underlying theme to his tirade on all the 'diagnosis du jour' mentality of the gen pop. He attacked allergies as well with the same basic premise - that these kids getting over-diagnosed with the current popular disorder MUST be the result of having no 'real man' in their lives to smack them upside the head and tell them they're being whiny little brats and to straighten the hell up.

Because ... ya know ... that works SO well ....

*edited to add*

It's all about agenda and this agenda is to demean people who have no say in their lot - the typical bullying of the GOP Right.


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> prolly all that partying before those all-night cram sessions to pass his college exams


 
speaking of broad, uninformed over-generalizations... maybe that's how YOU got YOUR PhD, but to assume that everyone did it the same way is... ignorant,  LOL!

===========

Shesula, how many sons have you raised?  if the answer is zero, and you were not yourself somebody's son, then how much insight do you really have on what works and what doesn't?  Raising girls and raising boys is night and day different...


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> speaking of broad, uninformed over-generalizations... maybe that's how YOU got YOUR PhD, but to assume that everyone did it the same way is... ignorant,  LOL!


artyon:
Bingo!


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## Twin Fist (Jul 21, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> the typical bullying of the GOP Right.


 
i was right there with ya, then you went and ruined it.


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jul 21, 2008)

"They scream and they're silent..." That's all Mr. Savage thinks autism consists of?  Does he have any clue what all autism entails?  Or perhaps even what variety of household types autistic children come from?  

Not only is his radio show more attention then this ignorant, heartless whack-job deserves, these two pages of forum space are too much.  Like with any other child with a tantrum (in contrast to bona fide autistic children), ignore him and he'll shut up.


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## Tez3 (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> speaking of broad, uninformed over-generalizations... maybe that's how YOU got YOUR PhD, but to assume that everyone did it the same way is... ignorant, LOL!
> 
> ===========
> 
> Shesula, how many sons have you raised? if the answer is zero, and you were not yourself somebody's son, then how much insight do you really have on what works and what doesn't? Raising girls and raising boys is night and day different...


 

Raised a girl and a boy and to be honest there isn't much difference in the way you raise them!!


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> Raised a girl and a boy and to be honest there isn't much difference in the way *I* raise them!!


 
I fixed your post for you.

IMHO their needs are quite different, what types of communication they best respond to is very different, the roles they are expected to fill in society as adults are different.

So did you end up with manly women or girlish men?  Just teasing LOL.


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

Live True said:


> The spectrum of Autism is entirely too broad to come up with this 99% figure of Savages with any degree of reliability.


 
What do you think is a more accurate percentage?


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## bluemtn (Jul 21, 2008)

On the other hand of "bratty kids" (which can be the case at times) it's not always easy to diagnose, either.  So many can go on without being diagonsed, or misdiagnosed with some other disorder.  I know a lady that is 38 years old, and was diagnosed with Aspbergers (not sure of the spelling), which is a form of high functioning autism.  I had known her for 2 years prior, and knew she had some "quirks," but never really thought much of it.  I have a cousin with the same form of autism, and she's much younger.


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## Tez3 (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> I fixed your post for you.
> 
> IMHO their needs are quite different, what types of communication they best respond to is very different, the roles they are expected to fill in society as adults are different.
> 
> So did you end up with manly women or girlish men? Just teasing LOL.


 
In Britain we raise our kids the way we raise our dogs and horses lol!
I think in America you worry too much about these things, kids are kids, they need fresh air, good food, lots of love and just the right sort of discipline. Also a bit of neglect doesn't do them any harm, they don't need to be occupied every minute of the day with organised activities designed to make them into the ideal adults. They don't need counselling or channeling, or adults worrying about them or trying to understand them. 
My kids are adults now, both working, both doing well and both causing me no worry at all. The dogs and horses are okay too.


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Shesula, how many sons have you raised?  if the answer is zero, and you were not yourself somebody's son, then how much insight do you really have on what works and what doesn't?  Raising girls and raising boys is night and day different...



I have raised one and am currently raising another. One is autistic - Bona Fide, I assure you. The other has some sensory issues but not enough for me to want to hang a label on him - he's extremely well-adjusted.

And before you ask, I am also raising a teen daughter.

How many autistic children have you raised? DavdCC?


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

No autistic kids over here.  But I do believe that boys do need to be told  'they're being whiny little brats and to straighten the hell up' and more.  i would never tell my daughter that, at least not in that way


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> No autistic kids over here.  But I do believe that boys do need to be told  'they're being whiny little brats and to straighten the hell up' and more.  i would never tell my daughter that, at least not in that way


And so ... you think, I guess ... that this is a way to prevent autism in boys? Is that what you're saying? And, BTW, I think some girls absolutely need to be told they're being whiny little brats and to straighten the hell up.  But again - last I checked - nope, still not an effective treatment for autism.


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> And so ... you think, I guess ... that this is a way to prevent autism in boys?


 
nope, you have completely mis-read me, again.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 21, 2008)

Preparing children for the "real world" is a challenge whether they're boys or girls. Life ain't fair and candy-coating things will only hurt them in the long run.....anyway....

I have found that sites (left and right leaning) tend to print or post things to make folks say "Oh My GOD! How could they say that!?!!" In order to support their particular view. 

In a lot of cases it's taken out of context because you were not privy to the entire converstaion or discussions on the subject being addressed. 

At first glance (or listen) this sounds down right insane, but having not listened to the entire show leading up to this point may leave a gap in understanding. 

I'm not defending the right wing whackos nor am I endorsing the left leaning loons....I'm just saying in this day and age, you gotta take things with a grain of salt (or whole shaker as the case may be) and not be so quick to join the lynch mob.

Has anyone bothered to check that particular show's transcripts? If something sounds down right ridiculous, chances are it may have been taken out of context.


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> nope, you have completely mis-read me, again.


Actually, no. I'm trying to connect your statement on parenting with the outrageous statement by Savage who DOES think that it IS a preventative against autism.


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## DavidCC (Jul 21, 2008)

michaelsavage.com said:
			
		

> *the autism controversy*
> my comments about autism were meant to boldly awaken parents and children to the medical community's attempt to label too many children or adults as "autistic."
> just as some drug companies have overdiagnosed "add" and "adhd" to peddle dangerous speed-like drugs to children as young as 4 years of age, this cartel of doctors and drug companies is now creating a national panic by overdiagnosing "autism, for which there is no definitive medical diagnosis!
> many children are being victimized by being diagnosed with an "illness" which may not exist, in all cases. Just a few weeks ago doctors recommended dangerous anti-cholesterol drugs for children as young as 2 years of age! Without any scientific studies on the possible dangers of such drugs on children, corrupt doctors made this controversial, unscientific recommendation.
> ...


_._


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## RandomPhantom700 (Jul 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted by michaelsavage.com
> the autism controversy
> my comments about autism were meant to boldly awaken parents and children to the medical community's attempt to label too many children or adults as "autistic."
> just as some drug companies have overdiagnosed "add" and "adhd" to peddle dangerous speed-like drugs to children as young as 4 years of age, this cartel of doctors and drug companies is now creating a national panic by overdiagnosing "autism, for which there is no definitive medical diagnosis!
> ...



Sorry, but that doesn't wash.  99% is way to high a percentage to attribute to intentional misdiagnosis.  Besides, in the first tirade he was blaming it on irresponsible parenting; this was somehow supposed to awaken people to a conspiracy in the medical field?  

It's back-paddling on Savage's part, plain and simple.  Maybe he realized that he pissed off the wrong crowd.


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## shesulsa (Jul 21, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> Preparing children for the "real world" is a challenge whether they're boys or girls. Life ain't fair and candy-coating things will only hurt them in the long run.....anyway....
> 
> I have found that sites (left and right leaning) tend to print or post things to make folks say "Oh My GOD! How could they say that!?!!" In order to support their particular view.
> 
> ...


Listen to the radio show yourself at the link I provided. Seek out the transcript.



DavidCC said:


> _._



You know, his response you posted doesn't excuse his tyrade on autism and the overdiagnosis.  His follow-up actually proves that he was 1) eliciting anger, outrage, apathy and judgementalism towards people who accept the autism diagnosis and alludes to children without fathers with misogynistic leanings to forward his agenda and 2) makes gross assumptions about medication and who is and isn't placed on medication and why.

I firmly agree that it appears that there is an over-eagerness to diagnose and medicate children - hell, I've stumped that here many times over my four plus years here.  But you will *NEVER* read me say "99% of all conservatives are all dittoheads who were never taught love and compassion for the needy by their mothers because they were too busy with their fathers shooting things and blowing things up." Why? Because it would be an irresponsible and incorrect thing to say.  Plus ... I have no political agenda nor do I make any money off of posting my opinions on MartialTalk.com.


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## Empty Hands (Jul 21, 2008)

celtic_crippler said:


> At first glance (or listen) this sounds down right insane, but having not listened to the entire show leading up to this point may leave a gap in understanding. ...If something sounds down right ridiculous, chances are it may have been taken out of context.



Saying insane, ridiculous, hateful, inflammatory things in a ranting rage filled voice is Michael Savage's entire business plan.  I wouldn't worry too much about fleshing out the context.  Some trenchant examples:

"Back when America was still moral and whole, our meatballs were big, soft, and tasty. Today, thanks mainly to the Demoncats, the libs, and the Commu-Nazis who rule the courts, America's meatballs are small, hard, and tasteless. In other words, we have replicated the Swedish meatball, which is what socialism brings."

"Liberalism is unraveling the very fabric of this great nation. And the sooner you understand that liberalism is a dangerous mental disorder, the sooner you can break free from this insanity that attacks the way you live, how you conduct your business, the way you worship, the choice of SUV you drive, the food you eat, and the very freedoms you enjoy."

"Had Mr. Bush gone along with Feinstein's request, you can be sure Barbara "Babs" Boxer would demand to be in the loop-in the interest of fairness. I guarantee it, two seconds after Babs put her hands on these national secrets, she'd be on a cell phone to someone in Brooklyn: 'You know what I just heard. Let me tell you, they're going to launch in two minutes. Oh yeah, it'll be over Afghanistan... No, I don't want you to tell anybody, it's just between you and me, and by the way, I had my nails done this morning. Oh, I had them done in pink, and yeah, were launching three B3 bombers in exactly twelve minutes but I tell you the truth, the jewelry I bought on QVC, it really doesn't hold up when I go on C-SPIN, you know, it looks a little cheap...'_"

_"They [babies] are being dissected, sometimes while still alive, and sold piece by piece. Ears for $75 a pair; arms and legs, $150; a brain for $999, tax not included... It's becoming a huge business. And some of this money is being funneled to the Democrat machine."

The guy is either dangerously insane or playing it for money, which makes him scum.  Take your pick.


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## Touch Of Death (Jul 21, 2008)

If Savage were talking about attention defecite dis-order I would tend to agree. Nurture and not nature is generaly the cause, but autism? Good Lord. 
Sean


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## Ninjamom (Jul 21, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> ....Mike Savage ....
> Some trenchant examples:
> 
> "Liberalism is unraveling the very fabric of this great nation. And the sooner you understand that liberalism is a dangerous mental disorder, the sooner you can break free from this insanity that attacks the way you live, how you conduct your business, the way you worship, the choice of SUV you drive, the food you eat, and the very freedoms you enjoy."


 
Well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. 



> The guy is either dangerously insane or playing it for money, which makes him scum. Take your pick.


 
I pick 'B. scum, Final answer.'


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## Makalakumu (Jul 22, 2008)

Savage is a tool.  Autism is the parents fault.  Great explanation.  The more people that buy it, the less will eventually sue.

No body with a radio show that big is ever going to tell you anything that isn't bought and paid for in some way.


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## crushing (Jul 22, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> Savage is a tool. Autism is the parents fault. Great explanation. The more people that buy it, the less will eventually sue.
> 
> No body with a radio show that big is ever going to tell you anything that isn't bought and paid for in some way.


 
I don't think I have ever heard Savage on the radio, but he does sound like quite the tool.  But, at the same time, it seems to me that if a child has autism, he wasn't talking about that child.

Randy Rhodes, Don Imus, Mike Savage, and next. . ..  Since 1984 was published and studied there was a tendency to think that 'Big Brother' was somebody else and not we the people. . .


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 22, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> Saying insane, ridiculous, hateful, inflammatory things in a ranting rage filled voice is Michael Savage's entire business plan. I wouldn't worry too much about fleshing out the context. Some trenchant examples:
> 
> "Back when America was still moral and whole, our meatballs were big, soft, and tasty. Today, thanks mainly to the Demoncats, the libs, and the Commu-Nazis who rule the courts, America's meatballs are small, hard, and tasteless. In other words, we have replicated the Swedish meatball, which is what socialism brings."
> 
> ...


 
Like I said, I wasn't defending Savage I was just calling for common sense over mob mentatlity. 

Nobody ever disputed that Savage is or isn't a shock-jock. I thought the discussion was over the context of what he was saying which I took as whether or not the majority of children diagnosed with autism rarely have it and that huge pharmaceutical companies perpetuate illness without adequate proof to validate the use of their products in order to pad their profits at the expense of Americans; children in particular. IMHO that is a travesty, though I probably wouldn't have put it the same way he did.....but then again I'm not a shock-jock. 

I think the larger issue is whether or not that claim is true, not whether or not Savage is offensive. Though the latter is easier to prove. LOL


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2008)

Am I right in thinking though that ther are few if any drugs that can be used to 'treat' autism? If I'm correct there would be no pressure from pharmacutical companies to push for diagnosis.
The key to bringing up children is to treat them as individuals not by gender or 'condition/syndrome' but as the people they are.
David CC this is my daughter you can decide for yourself how mannish she is!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=711844950


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## shesulsa (Jul 22, 2008)

The only drugs that "treat" autism actually treat some effects of autism which mimic other things that have been successfully medicated before.  

The drug du jour for Asperger and HFA (high functioning autism) people is Risperidone/Risperdal but it is only indicated in certain cases and is actually off-label use to prescribe it for the treatment of autistic symptoms.  It is an antipsychotic generally used for schizophrenia and bipolar patients.  

And yes, it is as expensive as hell. A low dose for my son costs around $450 per month. 

But again - the need for that drug and others like it just aren't indicated in many cases of autism. The way autism is treated is mainly by sensory therapy, motor therapy, play therapy, speech and language therapy and psychological therapy geared toward social skills but only if the child is verbal.  All in early intervention.  Much more expensive than any drug and much harder to come by since most insurance companies won't pay for the treatment of autism.

You don't pop a pill for autism. The connection to big pharma isn't quite there.

The assumption that most autistic kids are popping pills really proves Savage knows NOTHING about the disorder and likens it to "allergies" and "ADD" which *are* often heavily medicated.

Autism is a Developmental Disorder with Neurological, immunological and digestive implications.  It keeps a child from functioning in almost any capacity without diligent intervention and consistent, long-term aid.

Allergies can be tested for and medicated as necessary.  ADHD can also be helped through some medications and through diet.  

But there isn't a go-to drug for autism.


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## DavidCC (Jul 22, 2008)

Did any of you listen to his show last night?  he had a leader from the NAA on, and they had a great discussion about this topic.  She was far from condemning him.  They agreed on many points.  SHE had actually listed to the entire segment, and not just some activist group's chosen excerpt.

he also re-iterated the context of his remark - he did not say that 99% of autistic kids needed better parenting - he was talking about  99% of mis-diagnosed kids.  Which you wouldn't understand if you only read 2 paragraphs or listed to 60 seconds of the original broadcast.

It's not hard to be a little more thorough than just reading someone else's take on it.  Apparently that is just little bit more work than most of you are willing to put in.  Much more fun to demonize him and get all righteously angry, isn't it?

"The truly autistic are very ill and need all the help they can get." - Michael Savage, 7/21/08


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## shesulsa (Jul 22, 2008)

From the audio clip:

"Now you want me to tell you my opinion on autism since I'm not talking about autism? A fraud. A racket. For a while we were hearing that every minority child had asthma. Why did they sudd ... why was there an asthma epidemic amongst minority children? Because, I'll tell you why. The children got extra welfare if they were disabled, and they got extra help in school. It was a money racket.  Every kid was told "cough cough" when the nurse looks at you "cough cough cough" I dunno, the dust got me so everyone had asthma from the minority community.  That was number one. Now the illness du jour is autism. *You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out....*"

Go to my original post, click on the link, play the excerpt yourself and at about 00:33 you will hear the bolded statement above.

I most certainly did listen to his tirade.  Did you?


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2008)

Ill? No don't think that's right either! Shesulsa explained it clearly and properly, as she's one  with experience I will go with what she says.
You simply can't blame things on bad parenting just because you feel it's that way, you need proof.
I'm not righteously angry not even angry and I have far better things to do with my time than waste it on someone who makes a living trying to shock people to up his radio ratings and bring more advertising in.


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## shesulsa (Jul 22, 2008)

The whole point here is the blatant usage of outrageous, false, completely asinine statements that weaker minded people slurp up like candy to sell an opinion that really has nothing to do with the original statement itself.  It's the same kind of thing as putting a naked woman on the hood of a car to sell the car.  There really are some idiots who FULLY BELIEVE that most of the behavior problems being over-diagnosed today are nothing but the result of having only one parent in the home or inept parenting or the lack of a good spanking once in a while.  Hearing someone else with some clout spew that crap only solidifies that kind of thinking in some people and plants seeds in the heads of others.  

Sorry - I just have zero tolerance for people who feel completely justified in spewing this crap and then backpedalling and saying, "oh, oh, that's not what I meant, no, I meant this, not that and besides, I've published an official apology." 

Yeah.

Whatever.


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## DavidCC (Jul 22, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Go to my original post, click on the link, play the excerpt yourself and at about 00:33 you will hear the bolded statement above.
> 
> I most certainly did listen to his tirade. Did you?


 
Like I said, you listened to a short exceprt of the entire segment.

Did you listen to the conversation he had last night with a person from the NAA?  of course not, you had everything you needed to know in one 60 second clip.


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## shesulsa (Jul 22, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Like I said, you listened to a short exceprt of the entire segment.
> 
> Did you listen to the conversation he had last night with a person from the NAA?  of course not, you had everything you needed to know in one 60 second clip.



Yup. Pretty much.  If my husband tells me in a fit of rage I'm a stark raving ***** who has no business living in his house ... and later apologized for it?  Mmmm ... that would be enough for me. That little moment revealed exactly what he really thought of me, deep down.  And if it weren't the truth? It would tell me he was so completely out of touch with reality that I would never want to spend another intimate moment with him again in any capacity.


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## Twin Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Yup. Pretty much. If my husband tells me in a fit of rage I'm a stark raving *****


 
Words spoken in anger, should never be taken that seriously.

Sorry I cant agree with you on this one.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> More "attention through outrageous statement" from a media person. Disgusted but not too shocked.



Yes, that's my thought too after reading an article about this. His comments were ignorant and hurtful, but he's a "shock jock" and that's what he's paid for (however amazing that fact is to me). I note that his comments were "ripped out of context [by] far left Stalinists". (Stalin was a left-leaning liberal? Well, I'm sure that that is out-of-context too.) Perhaps he _was _taken out of context; I don't know. But even troubled children misdiagnosed with autism aren't overwhelmingly "brats" (they likely have other issues, be they medical or social). To my mind, he's either a nut or crazy like a fox, laughing all the way to the bank like Howard Stern and Don Imus. The latter is much more likely.

It's a racket. He knows what he's doing.


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## arnisador (Jul 22, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Yup. Pretty much.  If my husband tells me in a fit of rage I'm a stark raving ***** who has no business living in his house ... and later apologized for it?  Mmmm ... that would be enough for me. That little moment revealed exactly what he really thought of me, deep down.  And if it weren't the truth? It would tell me he was so completely out of touch with reality that I would never want to spend another intimate moment with him again in any capacity.



One strike, even for family members? That's a harsh way to live. Forgiveness is a blessing.


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## punisher73 (Jul 22, 2008)

> "Now you want me to tell you my opinion on autism since I'm not talking about autism? A fraud. A racket. For a while we were hearing that every minority child had asthma. Why did they sudd ... why was there an asthma epidemic amongst minority children? Because, I'll tell you why. The children got extra welfare if they were disabled, and they got extra help in school. It was a money racket. Every kid was told "cough cough" when the nurse looks at you "cough cough cough" I dunno, the dust got me so everyone had asthma from the minority community. That was number one. Now the illness du jour is autism. *You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out....*"


 
Sheulsa:  I think YOU are the one who is taking it out of context because it is a topic close to you.  What is the main topic of this paragraph that you posted?  It is talking about people trying to get money for a disability that doesn't exist.  It is NOT talking about legitimate cases.  I had not even listened to the blip on the radio, and it is what I first talked about...people TRYING to get labeled autistic to get money for it.  He is right from that paragraph...because, as you have said Autisim can be VERY hard to diagnose it is easy for unethical people to take a child and get them labeled as such for their gain.

A person needs to seperate the two issues.  In the paragraph you posted, he is not talking about true autism, he is talking about people claiming autism for money.  He lays out his reasons for comparing it to the misuse of "asthma" by people to get money and then states that "autism" is the misuse of the day.

I would think that people would be more in an uproar over people trying to profit from a condition like autism and would want people better educated so that it would be harder to do.


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 22, 2008)

One thing's for sure. Savage got you all talking about it so he's definately earning his paycheck. LOL :shock:


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## Live True (Jul 22, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> What do you think is a more accurate percentage?


 Okay...i'm answering without haveing read all the posts in between this question adn the end of this thread..so apologies if I repeat something already said...but to answer your question David...My meaning was:

If he was actually intending to provide a scientifically based argument, which I do not think was his intention...but giving him that benefit of the doubt...then a more accurate statement would have been something like 
"X% of autistic children with this specific diagnosis are......" or even something more general
"x% of autistic children with severe autism...."

Comparing someone asperger's syndrome to someone with severe impairement is specious,pointless, and meaningless.  Someone with Asperger's or mild impairement is more likely to have some abnormalities of social interaction but be able to function similar to many folks without Autism.  Someone with severe impairement and also diagnosed with M/R would not be able to interact in almost any setting, may require significant medical care, etc.  The two extremes do not compare.

In other words...it's a bald face generalized statement that shows, by it's nature, a lack of understanding of Autism and does not exhibit a knowledge of the scientific method that he SHOULD have, based on his education and degrees.

At the very best, he could have stated his case better, and knows better.  At the very least, he doesn't really have a clue what he's talking about, and was just trying to stir the pot and get ratings.  It's up to you to determine your opinion.  I have formed my own, obviously.


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## Ninjamom (Jul 22, 2008)

I would hazard the generalization that anyone in this discussion who has said that it is easy to get an autism diagnosis does not have an autistic child.  It took us nine years to get a diagnosis for my son, and that was after several misdiagnoses of other possible problems, and one doctor who flat-out told us our son was "faking it".

Savage lumped all autism cases together and bold-facedly proclaimed that 99% of all of them were fraudulent.  This is as incorrect as it is indefensible.  That is why the National Autism Association issued a press release condemning his statements, much as those with autistic relatives are condemning his statements on this forum.


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## Archangel M (Jul 22, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> Sheulsa: I think YOU are the one who is taking it out of context because it is a topic close to you. What is the main topic of this paragraph that you posted? It is talking about people trying to get money for a disability that doesn't exist. It is NOT talking about legitimate cases. I had not even listened to the blip on the radio, and it is what I first talked about...people TRYING to get labeled autistic to get money for it. He is right from that paragraph...because, as you have said Autisim can be VERY hard to diagnose it is easy for unethical people to take a child and get them labeled as such for their gain.
> 
> A person needs to seperate the two issues. In the paragraph you posted, he is not talking about true autism, he is talking about people claiming autism for money. He lays out his reasons for comparing it to the misuse of "asthma" by people to get money and then states that "autism" is the misuse of the day.
> 
> I would think that people would be more in an uproar over people trying to profit from a condition like autism and would want people better educated so that it would be harder to do.


 
The politics of the speaker influence the message I guess. Looking at that bit, I think I understand his point now. While it may have been over the top, hes a radio talk show host. Who wants to listen to boring, uncontroversial talk shows? Or read uncontroversial internet posts for that matter?


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2008)

punisher73 said:


> Sheulsa: I think YOU are the one who is taking it out of context because it is a topic close to you. What is the main topic of this paragraph that you posted? It is talking about people trying to get money for a disability that doesn't exist. It is NOT talking about legitimate cases. I had not even listened to the blip on the radio, and it is what I first talked about...people TRYING to get labeled autistic to get money for it. He is right from that paragraph...because, as you have said Autisim can be VERY hard to diagnose it is easy for unethical people to take a child and get them labeled as such for their gain.
> 
> A person needs to seperate the two issues. In the paragraph you posted, he is not talking about true autism, he is talking about people claiming autism for money. He lays out his reasons for comparing it to the misuse of "asthma" by people to get money and then states that "autism" is the misuse of the day.
> 
> I would think that people would be more in an uproar over people trying to profit from a condition like autism and would want people better educated so that it would be harder to do.


 
So...... exactly how do you persuade doctors and specialists that your normal child is autistic just because you want the money?
In this country you get precious little for any illness/condition or disability and that's when it's genuine. Here you have to see endless doctors, fill in millions of forms and have to be seen by the govenment doctor to try and get anything. We've had people declare fit who've died days after seeing th official doctor and double amputees told they are fit for manual labour and no they didn't have artificial legs.


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## Live True (Jul 22, 2008)

Now, having read all the posts in between...David and Punisher both bring up very good points about taking things out of context.  So, I went in search of the full transcript of the show form July 16th...and I couldn't find it...not even on Michael Savage's own site...(although he did have his follow-up comments, right above a contribution request for his legal fund....hmmmm)

To compare his follow-up show on the 21st with the show on the 16th is really not a justified defense of what he "really" meant to say.  As an educated man and a radio journalist, he meant exactly what he said or at least wanted to stir up controversy. Now, after rather large backlash, it is in his best interest to temper his comments.  But the two shows have significantly different viewpoints and manner of presentation.  So it really is up to the listener to determine what they see as truth.  

His statements, not inferences of what he said, but his direct statements are overgeneralizations about a broad and diverse population, random comments that only homes with a man can create healthy children, and rhetoric only loosely based on facts.  But...he's a shock-jock, and that's what he does. Now, he's trying to make his statements noble by linking them  with big pharma and bringing in some personal pathos.  I'm sorry...I'm not buying it.  He got more than he bargained for...

The only thing I can say good about this..is that it DID get folks talking...and maybe SOME will learn a bit about the reality of Autism.

Shesulsa, I sympathise with your feelings on this issue. I don't have autistic children, but I have worked with a few as part of my education.  While I don't believe in a one strike rule nor quick judgements, I do think Savage said what he meant at the time....fortunately...his opinions are as changeable as the winds of politics and opinion polls....


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## Flying Crane (Jul 22, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> this is my daughter you can decide for yourself how mannish she is!
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=711844950


 

YAWZA!!!!  er, sorry, that was probably inappropriate...

you have a lovely daughter.  I am sure she is as beautiful on the inside as she is on the outside...


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## Tez3 (Jul 22, 2008)

Flying Crane said:


> YAWZA!!!! er, sorry, that was probably inappropriate...
> 
> you have a lovely daughter. I am sure she is as beautiful on the inside as she is on the outside...


 

LOL! You can take that up with her yourself lol! I will tell you she cracked a pro MMA fighter's ribs in flying guard though! (Jean Silva but I'm not naming names lol)she trains BJJ, MMA and kick-boxing and is only five foot.
My daughter is my pride and joy (she won't mind me posting up as shes on facebook) and I thank G-d everyday for her so I can understand the anguish of parents who find out their children have conditions like autism, it's heartbreaking for them but the bravery shown every day, the perserverance, the sheer gutsiness of these parents shouldn't be obscured by this discussion. I imagine too that with the tears there are also joyous moments and always great love. Shesulsa and Ninjamom....you rock!!


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## MA-Caver (Jul 22, 2008)

Sorry I'm late but I finally took a few moments to listen to the rant of Mr Savage... What he says... 


> "_f I behaved like a fool, my father called me a fool. And he said to me, 'Don't behave like a fool.' The worst thing he said -- 'Don't behave like a fool. Don't be anybody's dummy. Don't sound like an idiot._


_

What I say... 




			Tooo late! Should've listen to Daddy there Mike!
		
Click to expand...

_


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## donna (Jul 22, 2008)

Regardless of the result that he was trying to achieve, this man has caused real pain to people who are struggling with the reality of raising children with a heartbreaking disorder.
It is so hard to cope with judgemental people who accuse you of bad parenting when you are barely keeping your sanity together, trying to cope with a child that you love dearly and are doing everything you can to help them have quality of life.
There are so many people who are quick to judge and are of the opinion that a "a good whack" is all it takes to "Fix" any behavior. These are the sheep who will listen to these type of outbursts and nod their heads in agreement. Then the next time they are in the supermarket and see a parent trying to cope with a difficult child, will open their stupid mouths and repeat  this crap like they are experts themselves.
Do you know how hard it is to be told you are a bad parent, in public, when you are feeling helpless. when you are feeling so sad for your child because they have this horrible disorder, when your heart is breaking because you wonder if it is your fault, was it something you did or did not do when you were pregnant. When all these things are going through your mind and you are screaming inside, then some bozo says something heartless and you wish it would all go away!
A few ill chosen words can do so much damage even if they are said for money or to shock.


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## punisher73 (Jul 22, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> So...... exactly how do you persuade doctors and specialists that your normal child is autistic just because you want the money?
> In this country you get precious little for any illness/condition or disability and that's when it's genuine. Here you have to see endless doctors, fill in millions of forms and have to be seen by the govenment doctor to try and get anything. We've had people declare fit who've died days after seeing th official doctor and double amputees told they are fit for manual labour and no they didn't have artificial legs.


 
From my own experience (had a friend who worked in the welfare cash assistance program here in michigan), usually the sqeaky wheel gets the wheel.  People doctor shop until they get what they want, or continually bug a doctor until he agrees with them.  For a "learning disabled" child, the state pays about $600 a month.  Many people take in 4 yr olds and show that they can't read and get them labeled, and there is NO required follow up.  The parents/child get that money until they are 18 yrs old.

If you are caught defrauding the system, you are penalized a VERY small percentage to start paying it back, but you continue to keep getting money.

It is VERY easy to get here in Michigan since we have no cut off for welfare and there are many follow up measures done by the state.


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## shesulsa (Jul 24, 2008)

The level of the idiocy in the 99% statement is enough to speak for itself.  I know enough about Savage, have listened to his show from time to time and have had enough.  If his point was directed at abuse of the system then he could have made his case more intelligently, more cogently.  But this statement in and of itself points to an irresponsible business decision.  Jocks have been fired for saying TRUE but SENSITIVE things because ... it was irresponsible. 

The one-strike rule would be in effect only in flamingly wrong statements such as his - my comparison to my marriage was probably inappropriate (though I'm fairly certain - see I didn't say 99% of you would do this - that most people could come up with something their spouse could say that would make them decide to leave permanently).  

For clarity: MY one strike on Savage doesn't have to be anyone else's, though at my last count six radio stations have dropped his show and I think he's lost a few sponsors but I haven't checked that fact personally yet.

His decision to say this was either stupidity or a business decision. Either way, he won't get a letter from me ... but his sponsors and the station sponsors will.


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## Kacey (Jul 25, 2008)

Savage Has Syndicator's Support



> Talk Radio Network, which syndicates Michael Savage&#8217;s program to more than 350 affiliates, said Thursday that it had decided to reject critics&#8217; calls to fire or suspend him over comments he made last week suggesting that most diagnoses of autism represented a &#8220;fraud&#8221; and &#8220;a racket.&#8221; In its first statement since Mr. Savage&#8217;s remarks on July 16 the company said that it was &#8220;satisfied that he did not mean any disrespect to autistic children or their families but was instead reiterating his longstanding concerns on public health issues.&#8221; The company added that it was &#8220;not appropriate to censor the opinions of its hosts on legitimate issues.&#8221;



This concerns me - that TRN would support such a misstatement because it was "reiterating his longstanding concerns on public health issues".


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## shesulsa (Jul 25, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Savage Has Syndicator's Support
> 
> 
> 
> This concerns me - that TRN would support such a misstatement because it was "reiterating his longstanding concerns on public health issues".



I wonder how they'd react if Dr. Phil said 99% of the executives at TRN are fraudulent hacks whose souls have been sold for their cushy homes and shame on them because clearly they had no real man in their lives to tell them how to maintain financial ethics?

Geez ... you know when Oprah said she didn't want to eat hamburgers again, the meat industry _sued her_.  Don Imus was fired for talking about nappy hair and basketball players.  I wonder how many people in the autism community view the comment by Savage as prejudicial?

Ah well.  Here is a commentary by an autistic adult, Bill Stillman.


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## Empty Hands (Jul 25, 2008)

Kacey said:


> This concerns me - that TRN would support such a misstatement because it was "reiterating his longstanding concerns on public health issues".



That's their cover.  If they have a reasonable *** covering story and they don't get too much flack from it, then the more outrageous Savage is, the more money they make.  They won't fire him unless they are convinced that the public blowback from something he said would be too great.  That is why Imus was fired and Savage was not.


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## DustinJolley (Jul 26, 2008)

Have you guys heard about Michael Savages recent controversial comments about Autism? He said, "in 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's parents haven't told him to cut the act out." As a person with Asperger's Syndrome, I'm very offended at those comments, just as I was with Jesse Jackson's comments about cutting off a certain part of Barack Obama's anatomy, and Al Sharpton's comments about Mitt Romney not being a Christian.


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## theletch1 (Jul 26, 2008)

See this thread for 5 pages of discussion on the subject.


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## Tames D (Jul 26, 2008)

Hey Dustin,

My wife and I are also offended by Michael Savage as we have a 7 year old with Autism. 
Hang in there brother.


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## shesulsa (Jul 26, 2008)

I have a social group here on MT for families of people on the spectrum.  And yes, there is a long thread on the travesty already.  Come join the discussion.


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## DustinJolley (Jul 26, 2008)

Isn't amazing thought, that this dumbass hasn't been fired yet?


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## DustinJolley (Jul 26, 2008)

Yeah. Plus Mr. Savage doesn't seem to realize that there are many famous people that either have Autism, symptoms of Autism, or have been rumored to have Austism. Famous people that are real and fictional, including among others, Erik Per Sullivan, (fasely rumored to have Aspergers, although his alter ego on Malcolm in the Middle Dewey might) Keith Olbermann, (left-wing MSNBC host that nobody watches lol) and Lisa Simpsons


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## terryl965 (Jul 26, 2008)

DustinJolley said:


> Isn't amazing thought, that this dumbass hasn't been fired yet?


 

We all agree


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## DustinJolley (Jul 26, 2008)

In my opinion, this guy just makes Conservatives look bad.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 27, 2008)

Having worked with more than a few kids and adults with Autism, I can say that it is way beyond someone just being a brat.  Understanding and guidance are what is needed not being slapped by cruel words


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## DustinJolley (Jul 28, 2008)

Nobody could say that better. I wish that Austism was just an act, but it isn't "Dr." Savage doesn't seem to understand that.


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## DavidCC (Jul 28, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> We all agree


 
no we don't


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## jkembry (Jul 28, 2008)

Overall...I kind of feel sad about the whole comment.  Evidently he hasn't take the time to meet with some of these 'brats' to get to know them....perhaps if he did, he would think differently.


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## shesulsa (Jul 28, 2008)

> Michael Savage's controversial remarks about autistic children have gotten him booted off Cleveland's airwaves.
> 
> 
> WHK AM/1420, the only Cleveland-area station carrying Savage's radio talk show, is break ing its contract with Savage's syndicator, Talk Radio Net work, said Mark Jaycox, who manages the Cleveland stations under the Salem Com munications corporate um brella. WHK is owned by Cali fornia-based Sa lem Communi cations.
> ...


Source Article



> A group of seven Mississippi talk radio stations owned by Telesouth Communications has dropped Michael Savage&#8217;s nationally syndicated radio program over comments the host made last week suggesting that nearly every child with autism was &#8220;a brat&#8221; of inattentive parents. &#8220;Michael Savage&#8217;s comments about autistic children were beyond inexcusable and are unacceptable,&#8221; the station group said in a statement posted Tuesday on its Web site, supertalkms.com.


Source Article

And another example of Savage's REAL opinion of autism:


[yt]g0U7HjzUe54[/yt]

So while he still points to defrauding the government by using false diagnosis, he repeatedly states what he really thinks of the autism epidemic and what autism is.


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## Kacey (Jul 28, 2008)

Attention all users

The two threads dealing with this topic have been merged into one thread, so that all interested in discussing it can see everyone's opinions.

Karen Cohn
MT Senior Moderator


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## DustinJolley (Jul 28, 2008)

Savage doesn't only make Conservatives look bad, but he also looks all Americans look like stupid fools.


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## Kacey (Jul 28, 2008)

From ABC News:



> Several big advertisers have pulled their commercials from the syndicated "Savage Nation" radio show, and now, thousands of parents and protesters are urging Savage to step down, calling his words "hate speech."
> ...
> "We are here to call for the firing of Michael Savage. For his truly hurtful, outrageous and inaccurate statements," said one protester.
> And the backlash didn't stop there. Sponsors of Savage's radio show, such as AFLAC Insurance and Home Depot, have pulled their advertisements. Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus gave $25 million for the creation of Autism Speaks, in 2005, and sits on the group's board of directors.


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## DavidCC (Jul 28, 2008)

DustinJolley said:


> Savage doesn't only make Conservatives look bad, but he also looks all Americans look like stupid fools.


 
I don't think conservatives nor Americans in general need any help with that.

But in whose eyes do you mean?  I think there are people in other countries who think we look pretty stupid for bankrupting our nation to support dead beats and drug addicts and illegal aliens.  Do you care about THEIR opinion too? 

While Savage may have hurt some people's feelings, he has drawn a lot attention to the "cause" of autism - you can't buy this kind of publicity.  People who 2 weeks ago had never heard the phrase "autism spectrum" are now all up in arms over how autistics are treated.  Isn't that in the long run a good thing, despite the fact that some parents felt bad?  

Who wants to bet that the bank accounts of autisim organizations around the country are gowing like they've never seen before??  they should be thanking him, they are benefitting from his remarks in very direct ways.  Savage is suffering for what he said, autism groups are benefitting from it.  He did them a favor.  Who was really, concretely DAMAGED by what he said (having you feelings hurt is not being damaged)(losing revenue is).  

Sometimes people amaze me with their lack of insight and real-world analysis.

Savage is a professional a-hole, he did his job and the autism community is benefitting from it.


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## Marginal (Jul 28, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Savage is a professional a-hole, he did his job and the autism community is benefitting from it.


He's practically Jesus. You're right.


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## Ninjamom (Jul 28, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> ....While Savage may have hurt some people's feelings, he has drawn a lot attention to the "cause" of autism


.... he has drawn attention.... you mean by claiming it's a fraud and 99% of the cases are deadbeats trying to get government money?  Oh, yeah, implying that government funding for research and treatment of autism is a waste and that no special classes, teacher training, or accomodation etc. is needed, that helps autistic kids a lot.  



> Sometimes people amaze me with their lack of insight and real-world analysis.


The implicit irony requires no further comment.


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## Tames D (Jul 28, 2008)

DavidCC,

Let's try an experiment. Let's badmouth your organization and declare it a fraud. I wonder how much you'd benefit?


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## DavidCC (Jul 29, 2008)

QUI-GON said:


> DavidCC,
> 
> Let's try an experiment. Let's badmouth your organization and declare it a fraud. I wonder how much you'd benefit?


 
try doing some research over at *********, you are way late LOL.  of course we just left that organization last week, so, too late twice.

but, ignoring you irrelevant comparison ...

do you agree that he has casued a lot of attention to be paid to autism and the organizations that support the families of autistic people?  

Do you agree that they are benefitting from all this attention in the media and in the general public?  

Have you heard ANY public official trying to wean autisim support organizations off the public teat in response to Savage?  

Have you heard any donors come out in support of Savage and stop contributing to the cause of autism research and support? 

How exactly has he damaged the autisim support industry?

Like I said, feelings were hurt - but try to look beyond that just for a second.  He has single-handedly created a HUGE storm of media attention and public support.


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## Kacey (Jul 29, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Like I said, feelings were hurt - but try to look beyond that just for a second.  He has single-handedly created a HUGE storm of media attention and public support.


Yes, he has created a huge storm of media attention...and he has also reinforced every single person who thinks that autism is the result of poor parenting, and can be fixed easily, quickly, and above all, cheaply.  If only that were true - but it's not.


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## DavidCC (Jul 29, 2008)

Kacey said:


> Yes, he has created a huge storm of media attention...and he has also reinforced every single person who thinks that autism is the result of poor parenting, and can be fixed easily, quickly, and above all, cheaply. If only that were true - but it's not.


 
Do you think that is a large number of people?
Do you really care what those morons think?


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## DavidCC (Jul 29, 2008)

if anyone reading this thread is interested, there is web page available that links to multiple audio clips that expand on Savage's opinions on autism and in general the medication and treatment of children. it also includes a long statement from the parent company that syndicates his broadcast.

If a short clip disseminated by group that has tried to get Savage removed from the air since long before last week is enough for you, and your mind is closed to any other possibilities, then don't go to this page (even though you are the ones who need it most). If you are interested in getting more perspective on the issue, then go to http://www.savageonautism.com/



			
				TALK RADIO NETWORK said:
			
		

> In the context of his broader concerns, it is clear that Dr. Savage's comments were intended to suggest his opinion that, in the vast majority of cases, most children throwing tantrums, or refusing to communicate, are not autistic. Unfortunately, by condensing his multifaceted concerns into 84 seconds of commentary, the necessary context for his remarks was not apparent, and the few words he used to express his concerns were, in this instance, inartfully phrased.
> 
> As a result, Dr. Savage's comments did facially appear to be directed at children who suffer from autism, and clearly could be perceived as such. This has, in turn, caused understandable pain and distress to those who have a child or family member who is challenged by autism. This was not Dr. Savage's intent, and, on behalf of the Network and all persons associated with the Network, we wish to note that our hearts go out to all families who are forced to face the realities of autism every day of their lives, and to sincerely apologize to these families for any increase in these burdens resulting from inartful commentary appearing in the Network's programming.
> ...
> ...


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## DavidCC (Jul 29, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> You don't pop a pill for autism. The connection to big pharma isn't quite there.


 


			
				shesulsa in another thread from 7/4/08 said:
			
		

> I don't see an answer for autism within the next 150 years with the current influence from the WHO and their pharmaceutically-greased palms.


 
I just happened to run across the comment from a month ago... 

Earlier in this thread I suggested that Savage was against the influence of big pharmaceutical companies on the treatment of children, and you (Shesulsa) replied that there was no connction to them in regards to the treatment of autism (1st quote above). Yet in early July you wrote that they were indeed one of the reasons for the lack of progress in the understanding of autism (2nd quote).

How do you reconcile these 2 contradictory statements? Did you change your mind or is your opinion just based on the emotional reaction of the moment?


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## celtic_crippler (Jul 29, 2008)

Observation: 
Based on the number of posts and pages this topic has gotten, I'd say Savage accomplished his goal in getting the attention he wanted.


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## donna (Jul 29, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Do you think that is a large number of people?
> Do you really care what those morons think?



Yes I do think it is a large number of people, after being on the recieving end of many hurtful comments over the past 23 years!! often from complete strangers!!
It is not that I care what these ignorant people *think* but what they *do* as the result of what they *think*.


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## Kacey (Jul 29, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Do you think that is a large number of people?



A single misinformed person is one too many.  Too many people think that those with college degrees (no matter what the degree is in), and celebrities know everything - why else do people care what celebrities think about elections?  And too many of the people who care what celebrities think will take what Michael Savage said as gospel, simply because _he_ said it - to the great detriment of those affected by autism, either directly or indirectly.



DavidCC said:


> Do you really care what those morons think?


Personally?  Not at all.  Professionally?  I must; as a special education teacher I see more autistic children, and more of the autism spectrum, than most people - and I must differentiate for my colleagues, too many of whom hold opinions similar to Michael Savage's, between those who are truly autistic, or have ADHD, or are schizophrenic, or one of any number of other developmental, biochemical, learning, visual, auditory, and/or metabolic disorders (along with those who have rotten home lives, significant cultural differences, or other explanations for their behaviors) and those who are just normal, run-of-the-mill adolescents who'd rather talk in class than listen to the teacher.

I have to convince teachers who want kids to all sit down, shut up, and absorb the information presented (regardless of whether that information is presented in an appropriate format for the student or not), and regurgitate it back (regardless of whether the method of regurgitation is appropriate to the student or not) - and I have to do it to people who listen to Michael Savage and those like him, and want to know why little Johnny gets special treatment because he has a diagnosis of Asberger's (when, in the teacher's mind, little Johnny is just a bratty kid prone to tantrums), and why little Janey gets special treatment because she has dyslexia (when, in the teacher's mind, little Janey could read if she'd just work harder), and why little Joey gets special treatment because his mother took him off his medication again (when, in the teacher's mind, little Joey shouldn't be in school at all if he's going to act like that - the voices in his head notwithstanding), and why little Tranh gets special treatment because she still thinks in Korean (when, in the teacher's mind, if she can't speak English, she shouldn't be in the class at all) ... I could go on, but perhaps by now you've gotten the idea.  

And then, of course, there are the parents who object to having little Johnny and little Janey and little Joey, and even little Tranh (who's wonderfully well behaved... because she's too shy not to be; no one around her speaks her language) in class with their perfect little darlings, except when having them around provides an excuse for their perfect little darlings doing poorly; after all, they don't have Special Education teachers modifying their work, or English as a Second Language teachers providing extra help - that _must_ be why the failed; it couldn't _possibly_ be because their little darlings don't do homework, don't bring school supplies, stay up playing video games until 2 am - nope, must be because _they _aren't getting all those special services.

So, do I care what "those morons" think?  Only when it affects me personally or professionally - which it does all the time.


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## Empty Hands (Jul 29, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> While Savage may have hurt some people's feelings, he has drawn a lot attention to the "cause" of autism - you can't buy this kind of publicity.



The ends do not justify the means.  His comments could have inadvertently cured cancer, and what he did would still be wrong.


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## arnisador (Jul 29, 2008)

Empty Hands said:


> The ends do not justify the means.  His comments could have inadvertently cured cancer, and what he did would still be wrong.



Eh...you know, if he had cured cancer, I'd have given him a pass.

It seems he meant to comment on those who physician-shop for designer diagnoses. As a college prof. we see it all the time: Johnny has a learning disability, so he gets 50% extra time on tests. Mikey is just plain dumb, so he doesn't. Sometimes Johnny really does have dyslexia, Asperger's Syndrome, traumatic brain injury, etc. (yes I've had all of those and more) and deserves a break. Sometimes Johnny's rich parents have bought him bonus time by finding a physician willing to sign anything to get them out of his office. Sometimes Johnny has problems for severe that 300% extra time wouldn't help him and shouldn't be studying this kind of material in college.

Bringing attention to the issue of paid-for diagnoses is fine. How he did it left much to be desired. I have a little sympathy for those who must speak in real time without prepared notes, but it sounds like he makes his living being a jerk for those who like to listen to that sort of thing. His listeners aren't the sort of people who will change the world, so what does it matter what he says to them? I presume he's paid to preach to the choir.


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## DustinJolley (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, look at the fact that Savage is almost universally despised by Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Bill O'Reilly, Al Franken, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann, etc...


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## shesulsa (Aug 2, 2008)

Aflac has pulled their ads from his show as has Radio Shack and Sears. Anheiser-Busch states they have never advertised during his show.

Supertalk - a network of conservative talk radio stations - has dropped him stating his comments border on "hate speech."

One article I read today rang SO VERY TRUE for me; if we would all just follow the lesson we were taught in kindergarten - ignore him and he'll stop it - might be good advice ... but the problem is so very many people just don't do anything and apathy is the seed of permission.


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## DustinJolley (Aug 2, 2008)

Hate speech, I think is an understatement. This guy's a nut!


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## DavidCC (Aug 4, 2008)

Wikipedia said:
			
		

> *Hate speech* is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people


 
I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children.  Which is exactly what has happened...

Of course in order to measure his intent all you have to go on are his statements.  Once can beleive everything he says, nothing he says, or pick and choose statement by statement and say "this one he means" "this one is a lie".  If you are picking and choosing which statements to take at face value and which to call false , how can you be sure you are not making that determination in order to support your own pre-existing opinions?

Which gets to the very weakness of hate-speech laws, they are judged based on the intent of the speaker, which cannot be objectively known.


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## shesulsa (Aug 4, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children.  Which is exactly what has happened...
> 
> Of course in order to measure his intent all you have to go on are his statements.  Once can beleive everything he says, nothing he says, or pick and choose statement by statement and say "this one he means" "this one is a lie".  If you are picking and choosing which statements to take at face value and which to call false , how can you be sure you are not making that determination in order to support your own pre-existing opinions?
> 
> Which gets to the very weakness of hate-speech laws, they are judged based on the intent of the speaker, which cannot be objectively known.


Okay ... but if I want to make the point that ... say ... McDonald's is bad for you, it would be completely irresponsible of me to carry on about the kind of people who work AT McDonald's. It's a tangent opinion that has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of rational argument about the quality of McDonald's cuisine.  My point would be completely overshadowed by my opinion of the toothless, obese and pubescent nimrods who purposely insert pubic hair, spittle and unmentionable bodily fluids into your food.

Capice?


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## DustinJolley (Aug 4, 2008)

That's very gross, shesula! Lol.


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## DavidCC (Aug 4, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Okay ... but if I want to make the point that ... say ... McDonald's is bad for you, it would be completely irresponsible of me to carry on about the kind of people who work AT McDonald's. It's a tangent opinion that has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of rational argument about the quality of McDonald's cuisine. My point would be completely overshadowed by my opinion of the toothless, obese and pubescent nimrods who purposely insert pubic hair, spittle and unmentionable bodily fluids into your food.
> 
> Capice?


 
well, get a few million people to listen to your radio show and then we'll see who knows how to draw attention to an issue... 

cmopared to all the good-natured care-bearism that autism support organizations have been using, Savage's remarks generated much more attention for your cause.

If that offends you, then ask all the orgs in your sig to send back the money they got from people who gave in response to this controversy.

To say out of one side of your mouth "this is terrbile he should be removed from the air" and "thanks for your donation" out of the other is pure hypocrisy.


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 4, 2008)

personal opinion but comparing McDonalds food to anything is gross and possibly an insult to that which is referenced


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 4, 2008)

> I believe his intent was to draw attention to the problems of over-diagnosis and over-medication of children. Which is exactly what has happened...


 

Now I may agree that way to many children are over-diagnosed, over medicated, and possibly should just have had a good swat on the back side once in a while to help them pay attention, but that dose not include those with real mental problems. Some of those diagnosed with autism truly have autism and they have needs way beyond a spoiled brat or a child that may have problems that are not autistic. The problem i needs much study, even if we have come a long way in the last few years to understand the problem. Children suffering from any learning disability need help.

Again I will say I think many are misdiagnosed but those with a real problem do not need to be poked fun of and the problem should not become part of any hate speech


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## shesulsa (Aug 4, 2008)

DavidCC said:
			
		

> well, get a few million people to listen to your radio show and then we'll see who knows how to draw attention to an issue...
> 
> cmopared to all the good-natured care-bearism that autism support organizations have been using, Savage's remarks generated much more attention for your cause.
> 
> ...



Ah. So ... if someone calls me a slut, I should shut up and be grateful for the press? Because no press is bad press? 

Those links have been in my signature since April, friend. I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism - your accusation of such is just as irresponsible and incorrect as Savage's upon parents of autistic children - nor will I.


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## arnisador (Aug 4, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism



That isn't what he said. He said that surely such a surge in donations surely _has_ occurred.



> your accusation of such is just as irresponsible and incorrect as Savage's upon parents of autistic children



That isn't what he said. He was attempting to attack the parents of non-autistic children who are, in his opinion, gaming the system. He did so a in rude and poorly phrased way that didn't even clearly make his own point, but he wasn't targeting the parents of _actually _autistic children.


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## DustinJolley (Aug 4, 2008)

Actually, he was attacking the parents of autistic children. "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." That somebody doesn't find that offensive is insulting and stupid. Harsh I know, but as a person with Asperger's, I think I know what I'm talking about.


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## arnisador (Aug 4, 2008)

DustinJolley said:


> Actually, he was attacking the parents of autistic children.



Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.

I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.



> That somebody doesn't find that offensive is insulting and stupid.


That you would tell others what they should find offensive, and label them "stupid" if they disagree with you, is insulting and ignorant.


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## shesulsa (Aug 4, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.


Now that's using semantics to defend the tactics - and I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired ... no matter the cause ... of the use of this kind of tactic to incite emotions to sway opinions and bring about neglect.  You're a mathematician and surely you would loathe to prove that 99% of the people who show up at the welfare line with children they want labeled autistic 1) actually _want_ the diagnosis and/or 2) have a child who doesn't _fit_ the diagnosis.



> I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.
> 
> That you would tell others what they should find offensive, and label them "stupid" if they disagree with you, is insulting and ignorant.


I can't tell others what to feel or think ... but I damn sure will tell people what I as the parent of an autistic person  - who neither wanted the diagnosis nor GOT ANY DAMN HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT FOR IT - feels and thinks about this kind of tactic.

This diagnosis was hard to get at one time and help for it even harder.  There are, quite unfortunately, many people who still feel very much the way Savage put it, Arni ... that "there's nothing wrong with that kid a good spanking wouldn't cure." I heard it from my in-laws ... and I think that 15 years, several physical attacks and an arson attempt later they _still_ feel that way.

I suppose it's hard to comprehend the damage the Savage blathering actually does to people, their families, chances for recovery and support unless you're walking in autistic moccasins.

*sigh*


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## DustinJolley (Aug 5, 2008)

Look, arnisador, I'm probably one of the biggest Conservatives on this forum. However, that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with anything that "Dr." Savage says. I probably agree with you less than I agree with him on political matters, but who cares? And how exactly were his hateful comments about autism taken out of context? You still haven't explained that to me.


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## Marginal (Aug 5, 2008)

arnisador said:


> Actually, that statement is false. He was attacking parents of non-autistic children who seek a diagnosis of autism (or similar) in hopes of obtaining financial support, medication, etc. He may not have done it well, but seeing the comment sin context makes it clear. When you quote "In 99 percent of cases, it's a brat who's PARENTS haven't told the kid to cut the ACT out." you don't know what "It" refers to.
> 
> I'm loathe to defend him but his opponents are now guilty of mischaracterization also.


The problem with the Savage quote is, stat's meaningless. 99% of misdiagnosed kids? What a staggeringly large percentage! How many fall under that percent? Dunno. That's not important.


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## DavidCC (Aug 5, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I have not used Savage's idiocy to solicit donations for autism ... nor will I.


 
Do you lead those organizations?  if not, can you get similar pledges from those that do?  Of course not!  it would be ridiculous for them to turn away money that they need so badly to help kids who need help.


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## shesulsa (Aug 5, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Do you lead those organizations?  if not, can you get similar pledges from those that do?  Of course not!  it would be ridiculous for them to turn away money that they need so badly to help kids who need help.


So perhaps you can clarify for me here ... either you're gonna say it outright or you're not ... are you saying there will be a ton of people who will donate to autism organizations out of guilt because of what Savage said?


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## Brother John (Aug 5, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> It appears Mike Savage has it hands down over all liberal whackos and all the studies on exactly what autism is.
> 
> That's right, folks! Mike Savage has discovered what autism is.
> 
> ...



It's *loud mouthed knuckle dragging morons* like Savage that give "conservatism" a BAD name!!!!!
I hate it that he has a platform where he says increadibly hurtful, untrue and idiotic-opinionate CRAP like this....and that he calls himself "Conservative"!!!!!!

Hack indeed....

Your Brother
John


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## Brother John (Aug 5, 2008)

if 99% of the cases of diagnosed autism were MIS-diagnosed simply because a large population of poor people WANTED their child diagnosed....
wow...

that'd mean that pretty much ALL psychiatrist who DID the diagnosis were routinely engaged in FRAUD. Their professional organizations and ((MOST OF ALL)) the insurance industry would come down on them like 50 ton of bricks!!

And WHY would these people who spent 12+ post grad years fighting for their license RISK incarceration just to get SO MANY kids misdiagnosed??
Who's going to influence them to risk their career, license and reputation??
The "*Poor*"????
...._*with what*_? *Money*? a nice warm feeling that they've helped the underprivileged??

HUH?????????

what a _*Friggin MORON*_!
The very fact that M. Savage is EMPLOYED is a SHAME on society!

Your RANTINGLY MAD, 
Conservative, Brother
John


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## arnisador (Aug 5, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Now that's using semantics to defend the tactics - and I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired ... no matter the cause ... of the use of this kind of tactic to incite emotions to sway opinions and bring about neglect.  You're a mathematician and surely you would loathe to prove that 99% of the people who show up at the welfare line with children they want labeled autistic 1) actually _want_ the diagnosis and/or 2) have a child who doesn't _fit_ the diagnosis.



I don't understand the relevance of this, but no, it surely is not a matter of mere semantics. Do we now agree that he was speaking of non-autistic children and that we're merely disagreeing over percentages? Obviously, his number was far off and made up on the spot, though that's a question for statistics which is a separate science from mathematics (including that asking for some one to ""prove" something of this sort is a logical impossibility--statisticians _estimate_). I also think that to accuse him of an attempt to "bring about neglect" is hyperbolic. He was trying to bring about increased ratings. He did so via an outrageous statement. Is this your first experience with talk radio?



> There are, quite unfortunately, many people who still feel very much the way Savage put it, Arni ... that "there's nothing wrong with that kid a good spanking wouldn't cure."


Again, it's clear that he was referring to the non-autistic when he said that. It's still ignorant and insensitive, he was explicitly and specifically referring to non-autistic but troubled children and the parents seeking what he deems an easy answer.



> I suppose it's hard to comprehend the damage the Savage blathering actually does to people, their families, chances for recovery and support unless you're walking in autistic moccasins.


I don't doubt that it's difficult, and I sympathize. But, you're guilty of twisting his words to your benefit. If you think you have the moral high ground I must tell you that I think you lost it when you decided to intentionally misconstrue his statement.



DustinJolley said:


> And how exactly were his hateful comments about autism taken out of context? You still haven't explained that to me.



Since his "hateful" comments were not about autism, I've abandoned the effort.


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## DavidCC (Aug 5, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> So perhaps you can clarify for me here ... either you're gonna say it outright or you're not ... are you saying there will be a ton of people who will donate to autism organizations out of guilt because of what Savage said?


 

guilt? over what???  I think your anger is clouding your thoughts.  See my post form 7/29 for another example of your cloudy thinking 

not guilt, but sympathy.  

Do you really believe that there are large numbers of people out there that actually think that 99% of autisitc kids are just misbehaving? 

because of the public outcry against Savage's comments, somebody does some reasearch into autism and autism support groups, and feels moved to contribute.  whereas if Savage had not made these statements, they would not have done so.  Therefore autism support groups directly benefit from Savage's controversial statements.  Your feelings are hurt but their bank accounts grow.  And the longer these groups can milk your anger, the more donations they will get.


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## DustinJolley (Aug 5, 2008)

Look, people. Regardless of wether you agree with Savage's comments or not, it doesn't change the fact that this man is nothing more than a SMEAR MERCHANT. Is that pithy enough for you?!


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## arnisador (Aug 5, 2008)

DustinJolley said:


> Regardless of wether you agree with Savage's comments or not, it doesn't change the fact that this man is nothing more than a SMEAR MERCHANT.



With this we are in full agreement! I don't know why people listen to these "shock jocks".


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## DustinJolley (Aug 5, 2008)

People like Savage do nothing more than promote hate and shock value. And there's plenty more like him: Howard Stern, Don Imus, Keith Olbermann, Rosie O'Donnell, Randi Rhodes, Al Franken, David Duke, and Henry Rollins among others are good examples of that. Hatred of blacks, gays, Mormons, Christians, Conservatives, well meaning Liberals and anybody else they disagree with is a target for many of these people. By well meaning Liberals, I mean people like Alan Colmes who can acutally argue their points without using personal attacks towards their opponets.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Aug 5, 2008)

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Brian R. VanCise
-MartialTalk Super Moderator-*


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## RandomPhantom700 (Aug 5, 2008)

DustinJolley said:


> People like Savage do nothing more than promote hate and shock value. And there's plenty more like him: Howard Stern, Don Imus, Keith Olbermann, Rosie O'Donnell, Randi Rhodes, Al Franken, David Duke, and Henry Rollins among others are good examples of that. Hatred of blacks, gays, Mormons, Christians, Conservatives, well meaning Liberals and anybody else they disagree with is a target for many of these people. By well meaning Liberals, I mean people like Alan Colmes who can acutally argue their points without using personal attacks towards their opponets.


 
I have to respectfully disagree with your including Keith Olberman in this list.  It's true that his show has a blatant liberal bias and he has a few choice opponents, but he normally relies on facts and direct quotes, and I wouldn't call him a shock-jock.


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## DustinJolley (Aug 5, 2008)

You've got to be kidding me, RandomPhantom700. Keith Olbermann doesn't and has never used facts at all on his stupid show that nobody watches. He gets his show's content off of Liberal hate websites such as The Huffington Post, Daily Kos, and Media Matters for America who attack Conservatives, the Bush Administration, and Fox News on a daily basis. He also posts on the Daily Kos himself. Even one of his shows contributors, Dana Milbank resigned yesterday because Keith thought one of his columns about Barack Obama was unfair.


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## DustinJolley (Oct 5, 2008)

Even though this controversy has sort of blown over, I still think that Savage should be fired. The comments he makes are bigoted, racist, reckless, moronic, and irresponsible. And I take back what I said earlier about Alan Colmes. The man's becoming more unhindged every day. Just listen to what he said on Thursday after the Vice Presidential debate when Dick Morris accused him of reading Democratic talking points. "Morris: Listen to what I have to say, or have another guest on. Hannity: Dick Morris, thank's for joining us. Colmes: Hope anger management works out for you, Dick." What a lovely thing to say. Calling anybody who disagrees with you angry. Pitiful. I could just as easily say the same thing about, I don't know, Colmes himself, or the beforementioned, Keith Olbermann or even Chris Matthews.


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