# Wong Shun Leung (WSL) Wing Chun / Ving Tsun - MORE EFFECTIVE?



## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

Hi guys.
I have booked to go back to Hong Kong for another 3 months, my first trip was spent learning the Leung Sheung lineage. I also did a few classes learning Wong Shun Leung's style. Although the Leung Sheung lineage is very pure and technical, I am wondering whether to go back to the WSL lineage after reading an article about Wing Chun not evolving with the times. I am spending all my money on this trip so I really need to choose the right style.

So, I would be so appreciative if someone could tell me if the Wong Shun Leung style would be more useful today? 
I understand it is simplified but what exactly has he left out and was he right to do so?

Thanks so much in advance, I don't know much but if I can help you guys in any way please let me know.

Many thanks and kind wishes, Dan


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## Flying Crane (Aug 2, 2018)

Geeze, I’m really not sure where to start here.

You are forking over what I assume to be a tidy sum of money for a trip to Hong Kong to undo what you just did on what was also probably an expensive trip, because of a article that some guy wrote, causing you to question what you just did?

I think you need to get some grounding and focus and perspective l before you keep running off on the next rumor you come across.


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## KPM (Aug 2, 2018)

dan_chi_sau said:


> Hi guys.
> I have booked to go back to Hong Kong for another 3 months, my first trip was spent learning the Leung Sheung lineage. I also did a few classes learning Wong Shun Leung's style. Although the Leung Sheung lineage is very pure and technical, I am wondering whether to go back to the WSL lineage after reading an article about Wing Chun not evolving with the times. I am spending all my money on this trip so I really need to choose the right style.
> 
> So, I would be so appreciative if someone could tell me if the Wong Shun Leung style would be more useful today?
> ...



Michael makes a good point above.  And I would argue that no "classical" version of Wing Chun has "evolved with the times." 

 WSLVT is very likely no more or less effective than Leung Sheung Wing Chun, if both are learned and practiced well.  One could argue that WSLVT is a bit more "streamlined" in that WSL seems to have refined what he taught to really focus on a  central strategy of penetrating an opponent's defenses and landing the straight punch.  So it doesn't seem to include any standing grappling/Kum Na type moves and doesn't concern itself with applications of specific techniques.....everything is focused on landing the punch.  My impression is that WSL really reworked his Wing Chun to be successful in the Bei Mo exchanges of his day.   On the other hand, one could see this approach as being rather limited in scope and lacking in a "self-defense" aspect (since punching someone out is not always a good choice).  From what has been said here in the past, WSLVT seems to put more emphasis on sparring than some other Wing Chun lineages.  So I'm not sure I would say that WSL "left out" things.  Its seems more like he focused things a bit more.

That being said.....if I was making a trip to HK to study Wing Chun, I would seek out a WSL school over a Leung Sheung school.  However, if I had already spent time and money learning Leung Sheung Wing Chun and enjoyed it and was about to spend much more time and money.....I would stick with that rather than starting over with a new group.  The danger is dabbling in many things that catch your interest without ever getting really good at one thing.

Hope that helps!


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## Danny T (Aug 2, 2018)

If you go with another group where will you be starting? Mostly from the beginning. Everyone does something a bit different and the new group will want you to know the differences in their fundamentals before moving onto more advanced material or knowledge. Are you expecting more in-depth training with a new group vs the group you've already been training? Just food for thought.


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## wckf92 (Aug 2, 2018)

You've already received some great feedback dude. 
My vote would definitely be the WSL choice. 
I wouldn't be too concerned with what he supposedly left out/added in, etc. Just go there are have a close look at the students. If (through direct personal observation and one on one hands-on interactions with the students and/or instructor) you get the feeling like they can handle themselves then you probably made the right choice. 
WC is a very broad area of martial study and like KPM mentioned...you can "focus" on specific things (i.e. like the punch and getting the punch to the target), or other things. 
TBH, after 3 months of intensive training and pressure-tested instruction...you should walk out of that experience with some fairly decent skills if the WC is trained correctly. 
Good luck to you and keep us posted on what you decide and how the trip goes!!!


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

KPM said:


> Michael makes a good point above.  And I would argue that no "classical" version of Wing Chun has "evolved with the times."
> 
> WSLVT is very likely no more or less effective than Leung Sheung Wing Chun, if both are learned and practiced well.  One could argue that WSLVT is a bit more "streamlined" in that WSL seems to have refined what he taught to really focus on a  central strategy of penetrating an opponent's defenses and landing the straight punch.  So it doesn't seem to include any standing grappling/Kum Na type moves and doesn't concern itself with applications of specific techniques.....everything is focused on landing the punch.  My impression is that WSL really reworked his Wing Chun to be successful in the Bei Mo exchanges of his day.   On the other hand, one could see this approach as being rather limited in scope and lacking in a "self-defense" aspect (since punching someone out is not always a good choice).  From what has been said here in the past, WSLVT seems to put more emphasis on sparring than some other Wing Chun lineages.  So I'm not sure I would say that WSL "left out" things.  Its seems more like he focused things a bit more.
> 
> ...


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, really helpful


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## Xue Sheng (Aug 2, 2018)

dan_chi_sau said:


> Hi guys.
> I have booked to go back to Hong Kong for another 3 months, my first trip was spent learning the Leung Sheung lineage. I also did a few classes learning Wong Shun Leung's style. Although the Leung Sheung lineage is very pure and technical, I am wondering whether to go back to the WSL lineage after reading an article about Wing Chun not evolving with the times. I am spending all my money on this trip so I really need to choose the right style.
> 
> So, I would be so appreciative if someone could tell me if the Wong Shun Leung style would be more useful today?
> ...



I trained briefly in a Ip Ching lineage and I trained briefly in a Leung Sheung lineage and to be honest I did not see one as anymore effective or better than the other beyond personal preference to some forms...but telling folks it is better or more effective is one heck of a sales pitch


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

Danny T said:


> If you go with another group where will you be starting? Mostly from the beginning. Everyone does something a bit different and the new group will want you to know the differences in their fundamentals before moving onto more advanced material or knowledge. Are you expecting more in-depth training with a new group vs the group you've already been training? Just food for thought.



I guess I'd be starting from near the bottom as I only had 5/6 lessons, but it was nice to experience another lineage and hopefully it has helped improve me and given me something to help with the WSL lineage


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

wckf92 said:


> You've already received some great feedback dude.
> My vote would definitely be the WSL choice.
> I wouldn't be too concerned with what he supposedly left out/added in, etc. Just go there are have a close look at the students. If (through direct personal observation and one on one hands-on interactions with the students and/or instructor) you get the feeling like they can handle themselves then you probably made the right choice.
> WC is a very broad area of martial study and like KPM mentioned...you can "focus" on specific things (i.e. like the punch and getting the punch to the target), or other things.
> ...



Thank you my kind friend and I hope you enjoy your wing chun


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 2, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Geeze, I’m really not sure where to start here.
> 
> You are forking over what I assume to be a tidy sum of money for a trip to Hong Kong to undo what you just did on what was also probably an expensive trip, because of a article that some guy wrote, causing you to question what you just did?
> 
> I think you need to get some grounding and focus and perspective l before you keep running off on the next rumor you come across.



I didn't ask for a life lesson. Rude


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## Marnetmar (Aug 2, 2018)

WSL schools will generally train in a more alive way while LS schools tend to get too caught up on being technically perfect for their own good.

I think both approaches have their own value, so the best of both worlds might be to train primarily at a WSL school and pay the occasional visit to a LS school to brush up on the finer details. Above all, just look for the best training you can find regardless of lineage.


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## OzPaul (Aug 2, 2018)

Why not try out Wan Kam Leung's Practical Wing Chun? It is not overly expensive and there is training everyday for approx 4 hours.

The first time i went to HK i trained there for two weeks and really enjoyed it.  I am not a student there however and do not practice Practical Wing Chun.

Other options would be Cliff Au Yeung or John Wong Hong Chung (VTAA classes).

My advice to you would be to find a Sifu that you like, try some classes and then commit to learning from them.  After your holiday practice what you have been taught at home and return whenever you have the funds for more training.

After doing the trip you have many a time i understand time and money are always short so best of luck.


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 4, 2018)

OzPaul said:


> Why not try out Wan Kam Leung's Practical Wing Chun? It is not overly expensive and there is training everyday for approx 4 hours.
> 
> The first time i went to HK i trained there for two weeks and really enjoyed it.  I am not a student there however and do not practice Practical Wing Chun.
> 
> ...


Thank you, so kind


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## Callen (Aug 6, 2018)

Good feedback in this thread, seems like you have a lot to work with regarding your initial question.


dan_chi_sau said:


> I also did a few classes learning Wong Shun Leung's style.


Out of curiosity, were the WSLVT classes also during your Hong Kong visit as well? Who did you take them with?


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 6, 2018)

Callen said:


> Good feedback in this thread, seems like you have a lot to work with regarding your initial question.
> 
> Out of curiosity, were the WSLVT classes also during your Hong Kong visit as well? Who did you take them with?



Yes very luck with the advice! The class was with Li Hengchang. He offered a lot of hours per week. Any thoughts?


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## Callen (Aug 6, 2018)

dan_chi_sau said:


> Yes very luck with the advice! The class was with Li Hengchang. He offered a lot of hours per week. Any thoughts?


 He is very knowledgable. Li Heng Chang was a long term student of WSL and has a unique flavor of WSLVT. If you can take classes directly from him, it is an excellent opportunity. He taught another notable WSLVT practitioner, Wang Zhi Peng as well.


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## dan_chi_sau (Aug 6, 2018)

Callen said:


> He is very knowledgable. Li Heng Chang was a long term student of WSL and has a unique flavor of WSLVT. If you can take classes directly from him, it is an excellent opportunity. He taught another notable WSLVT practitioner, Wang Zhi Peng as well.


Thank you so much. I hope to continue my studies with him. Can you tell me what is his unique flavour? Kind wishes


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## Cephalopod (Aug 6, 2018)

3 months of intensive training in HK... you lucky shmo!

I'm wondering what your MA background is. Here's why:
I believe somebody who has been training in WC/VT (or something else slightly relatable) for  5, 10, 15 years could learn a large amount in a 3 month intensive session in either branch because the fundamentals are either there or could be easily translated from what you have already developed.
A complete newbie would gain an insight on what the WC/VT training is about but would spend most of the the time developing skills that are common to both branches rather then delving into the deep details which may differ between the two.

So, Dan, if you are relatively new to MA training I might suggest that you try the branch that you have not yet tried just to broaden your overview of WC/VT generally .

But, more importantly, I would start looking into when and where after your vacation you can develop a long term relationship with a qualified teacher who can give you the constant feedback over years (not months) that is so necessary to becoming truly capable WC/VT practitioner. Feedback that you just can't get from a book, the internet, or a brief training vacation.

Good luck and have fun!


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## DaveB (Aug 6, 2018)

The style is almost totally irrelevant. 

If you want to be effective when you get home find boxing, Thai boxing and mma schools, go to their sparring sessions and practice developing the skills of combat:
Distancing, 
Timing,
Footwork, 
Attack recognition, 
Counter attacking etc 

These skills are essential regardless of fighting style. They are what define your ability to fight. 

The style is just the strategy you use to win, but without development of the above attributes (along with strength,  speed and stamina) you will never be effective at fighting. 

With this in mind I would stick with what you have started. Once you have mastered that strategy and developed the appropriate attributes, learning WSL or any other strategy will be easy.


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## Bino TWT (Aug 6, 2018)

I'd say tour around a bit to different schools while you're there and see if you find something you like. There are literally dozens of Yip Man sub-lineages and probably twice as many non-Yip Man branches of WC. Sometimes it helps getting a deeper understanding to experience it from many alternate angles. I constantly cross train and exchange ideas with other lineages. There's always something to learn, another tool to put in your box.


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