# Actual Fight



## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

Curious. I am wondering how many people have successfully used their art of choice, in a real fight situation. How successful was its use. Physical not emotional bushwash Zen.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 26, 2016)

I have, more times than I can remember. Most of those didn't even involve hitting anyone.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

Physical, not emotional.


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## oaktree (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> Curious. I am wondering how many people have successfully used their art of choice, in a real fight situation. How successful was its use. Physical not emotional bushwash Zen.


been there done that. Actually, I try not to fight I'm getting old I got kids, most of the time fights are easy to avoid by avoiding bad areas, common sense, controlling your anger.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

oaktree said:


> been there done that. Actually, I try not to fight I'm getting old I got kids, most of the time fights are easy to avoid by avoiding bad areas, common sense, controlling your anger.


That is not my question and goes without saying. I understand that the martial arts is mostly fantasy, but does your art work, when you need it? That is my question.


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## Tez3 (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> That is not my question and goes without saying. I understand that the martial arts is mostly fantasy, but does your art work, when you need it? That is my question.



Whoa, hold up there a minute. Just what makes you think that marital arts is 'mostly' fantasy? Two experienced martial artists have just given you an answer and the fact you don't like their answers doesn't mean you can throw phrases like 'martial arts are mostly fantasy' at them.
What is your experience in martial arts an what are the reasons for posting the OP?


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Whoa, hold up there a minute. Just what makes you think that marital arts is 'mostly' fantasy? Two experienced martial artists have just given you an answer and the fact you don't like their answers doesn't mean you can throw phrases like 'martial arts are mostly fantasy' at them.
> What is your experience in martial arts an what are the reasons for posting the OP?


I didn't disagree with their comment, I couldn't, simply because they didn't answer mine. Therefore...no insult on my part.

As for the fantasy part- that was misunderstood, not meant to be an insult. What I meant, is the fact that endless hours of training, utilizes picturing other opponents during solo training. My experience in the martial arts...hmmm..do you want dojo experiences or real life, as they are two entirely different things?


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

I am simply asking, how many have actually used the art, that they have dedicated their life to and is it effective in actual combat? It's a simple question concerning combat experience.


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## oaktree (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> That is not my question and goes without saying. I understand that the martial arts is mostly fantasy, but does your art work, when you need it? That is my question.


Depends what I need it to work for. 
Can I apply something to break someone's arm yes, have I use it to defend myself yes.
Do I need my martial art to be able to fight no I don't, I have been in enough fights already so I know how to fight before I learned martial arts in fact just the opposite, I took martial arts to learn to relax and find peace of mind, already been in fights with gangs growing up so I know how to handle myself and I took the most pussified arts rather them some combative what ever because at the end of the day it's not the art it's the person who knows how to use it


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

oaktree said:


> Depends what I need it to work for.
> Can I apply something to break someone's arm yes, have I use it to defend myself yes.
> Do I need my martial art to be able to fight no I don't, I have been in enough fights already so I know how to fight before I learned martial arts in fact just the opposite, I took martial arts to learn to relax and find peace of mind, already been in fights with gangs growing up so I know how to handle myself and I took the most pussified arts rather them some combative what ever because at the end of the day it's not the art it's the person who knows how to use it


Agreed and You answered my next question. "Why do you train"?


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## oaktree (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> Agreed and You answered my next question. "Why do you train"?


I train to better myself, to be a positive influence, to find peace of mind all that fairy farting stuff. I have caused enough people pain fighting and have seen enough pain so I'm not interested in it.


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## jks9199 (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> I am simply asking, how many have actually used the art, that they have dedicated their life to and is it effective in actual combat? It's a simple question concerning combat experience.


Yes, I have.  So have quite a few others, in violent situations ranging from street attacks through law enforcement into military combat.

And I've used my art on occasion without hitting anyone... because the deflections, traps, and holds are part of the art.  So is the verbal deescalation.  Some styles are a bit more complete on these matters than others...


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 26, 2016)

jks9199 said:


> Yes, I have.  So have quite a few others, in violent situations ranging from street attacks through law enforcement into military combat.
> 
> And I've used my art on occasion without hitting anyone... because the deflections, traps, and holds are part of the art.  So is the verbal deescalation.  Some styles are a bit more complete on these matters than others...


Excellent...your art works for you. And is that why you train in your specific art.

I will say that, in my opinion, any physical contact made, is a hit.


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## drop bear (Apr 26, 2016)

My last decent one was a large aboriginal man who wanted me to go out into the car park to talk. 

I belly to belly suplexed him and held him in side control untill he apologised for what he described as a misunderstanding i thought he said he was going to break my jaw.  But apparently he just said he wanted to. 

Any him and his friends left and spent the next hour and a half punching each other untill the cops rolled up.


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## JowGaWolf (Apr 26, 2016)

I've used karate in 3 fights. 2 of these fights was against people who didn't know a martial art, the third was against someone who knew karate and as better at it than I was.
First lesson learned is that there is a difference between knowing how to do something and knowing how to do something with power. I won the fight but my kicks were as effective as I thought they would be. Kicking a pad that someone is holding is not the same as kicking a moving target that gives and moves with the strike.

Second fight I learned the importance of staying alert as I was attacked from behind.  That was my fastest fight.

My third fight was against another person who knew karate.  While I didn't win that fight he did so I can account for him being able to be successful.  

I haven't used Jow Ga in a fight yet. I think the only time I'll be using that is in in competitive fighting.  Wife + Kids + in my 40's pretty much mean that I'm going to try an avoid getting into a fight, not because I don't want to fight but because now it's not just about me.  I'm much better in Jow Ga than I was in Karate so I don't think I'll have those past issues come up again.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> Curious. I am wondering how many people have successfully used their art of choice, in a real fight situation. How successful was its use. Physical not emotional bushwash Zen.


I have. I have one fights before I realized we were fighting. Those are the best. One well timed move can end their whole world.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> "Why do you train"?


You train for:

- fighting ability,
- health,
- fun.

When you take/knock your opponent down, you will smile in your dream for many nights. Even money won't be able to buy that for you.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> I didn't disagree with their comment, I couldn't, simply because they didn't answer mine. Therefore...no insult on my part.
> 
> As for the fantasy part- that was misunderstood, not meant to be an insult. What I meant, is the fact that endless hours of training, utilizes picturing other opponents during solo training. My experience in the martial arts...hmmm..do you want dojo experiences or real life, as they are two entirely different things?


Visualization is not the same as fantasy, but I see your connection.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 26, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> Curious. I am wondering how many people have successfully used their art of choice, in a real fight situation. How successful was its use. Physical not emotional bushwash Zen.



Given your attitude, why would I tell you?


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## Buka (Apr 26, 2016)

Welcome to Martialtalk, bro, hope you enjoy the place.

I don't know who said this, but I've always liked the quote - "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes you get rained out, but you gotta' suit up for them all."

Worked as a bouncer, a doorman, a bartender, concert security, a screw in an arrest unit, a security guy during forced busing, a bodyguard, a DT instructor, a professional kick boxer, and a career as a police officer. And I might have fewer actual fights than you do.

It's not "your art" that matters, it's you. *YOU*. "Your art of choice" has nothing, whatsoever, to do with how you utilize what you know.


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## drop bear (Apr 26, 2016)

Buka said:


> It's not "your art" that matters, it's you. *YOU*. "Your art of choice" has nothing, whatsoever, to do with how you utilize what you know.



I think training has some benifits in a fight.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 26, 2016)

drop bear said:


> I think training has some benifits in a fight.


Old MA saying said,

- train beats fast,
- fast beats slow,
- slow beats untrain.


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## drop bear (Apr 26, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Old MA saying said,
> 
> - train beats fast,
> - fast beats slow,
> - slow beats untrain.



Yeah. Not really the right comparison. You can get a gumby and train him and he will still get mauled by an untrained guy who is naturally athletic.

But the gumby will be better than if he had not trained. And even the athletic guy will be better if he trains.

Now the reason this is important is it is more productive to train a gumby than to hope he becomes naturally athletic.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Apr 27, 2016)

drop bear said:


> You can get a gumby and train him and he will still get mauled by an untrained guy who is naturally athletic.


Everything is "relative" and not "absolute". A good teacher may be hard to find. A good student is even harder to find.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Given your attitude, why would I tell you?


I believe it's a case of sensitivity on your part.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Really folks...I was just curious as to what drives people to train. I am not around a lot of people who train or even have an interest and thought it would be nice to see what motivates people. I agree that it's up to the student, hence the reason I didn't ask about a certain style. Next time I will be a little more sensitive concerning the words I use.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 27, 2016)

1) Yes I have
See I have answered your question. Oh wait you want examples. Maybe you need to present a better written question. 
2) Others answered and stated without hitting and your replied Physical and not emotional. 
This shows your complete lack of understanding of any martial art at all. 
As you see, I can use range and to avoid getting hit. 
I can slip and redirect their strikes. 
I can lock and control the opponent and never hit them and still use my art. 
3) I have been multiple on one, I have been empty handed with weapon and weapons presented towards me. I have had to deal with attack dogs. I have had to deal with vehicles. I have had too ..., heck when you can write a question that I can answer directly, I may. Otherwise search this site for my name and other responses and do some searching on your own for your answer. 
4) Yes, this post could be seen as insulting, it is not meant that way. It is only a reflection of your posts. So if you meant to be insulting then I guess you could see this post that same way. So, no I am not trolling you, yet I have to wonder if you are trolling here, or seriously just so out of the know for understanding martial arts. 

Sad I am. As either option is not good.


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## GiYu - Todd (Apr 27, 2016)

I've used my training several times, both physical and psychological.  Both have kept me safe.  Physically, had a guy throw a punch, I was able to sidestep it, capture his punch hand and do a wrist reversal (kote gaeshi in Aikido, omote gyaku in kobudo/jujutsu) to put him on his ***.  There were other time, but none that were pure martial arts form... although they employed elements of the training.  Psychologically, I've been able to avoid fights by either deescalating or by intmidating people intending to do me harm. 
I consider successful avoidance to be a bigger win for me than having to employ physical techniques.  I'm sure most on this forum would concur. 
I train primarily to better myself and stay in shape.  The ability to hurt someone is a bonus.  I could probably do yoga for the former, but don't want to be the "creepy middle aged guy" in the class.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Old MA saying said,
> 
> - train beats fast,
> - fast beats slow,
> - slow beats untrain.


That hurts my brain.


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> Everything is "relative" and not "absolute". A good teacher may be hard to find. A good student is even harder to find.


Yeah, it may be time to stop martial arts, if all your students are lame-owes. LOL


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

I like to punch people's punches. You just put you hand on your pec, and wait. Good times.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Rich Parsons said:


> 1) Yes I have
> See I have answered your question. Oh wait you want examples. Maybe you need to present a better written question.
> 2) Others answered and stated without hitting and your replied Physical and not emotional.
> This shows your complete lack of understanding of any martial art at all.
> ...


By your response, after admitting my mistake, definitely shows that you have a lack of true understanding of the martial arts. I am sure, as experienced martial artist, those who commented really did know what I was asking. I stated that in my personal opinion, contact is a hit, Its simply my opinion. I am not insulted in the least by your comment. Its your opinion...Not gospel truth. It is clear that you are very insulted by my comment. I am not really into the mysticism associated with the martial arts. But that is probably due to my lack of religious belief. I believe the martial arts can build character and a strong frame of mind. As I stated previously, I will take your sensitivity into consideration with my future post.


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## Bill Mattocks (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> I believe it's a case of sensitivity on your part.



I believe it's a case of asking a question with an agenda on yours.

I don't like feeding people's preconceived notions, and that's what my con detector tells me you're running here.


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## Kickboxer101 (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> That is not my question and goes without saying. I understand that the martial arts is mostly fantasy, but does your art work, when you need it? That is my question.



I dare you to go into any martial arts school or fight gym and say it's all fantasy and then once you've gained the ability to type again tell us how it went


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> I dare you to go into any martial arts school or fight gym and say it's all fantasy and then once you've gained the ability to type again tell us how it went


All I can do is chuckle When I hear this kind of response. But, I realize that you didn't read my explanation concerning what I meant. Change fantasy to visualization. As for going into a fight club or dojo, why would that help? I have been to many and you are under the assumption that I do not train. As I have stated elsewhere...I think it's a sensitivity problem more than anything. Its really not that big of a deal to say fantasy.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> By your response, after admitting my mistake, definitely shows that you have a lack of true understanding of the martial arts. I am sure, as experienced martial artist, those who commented really did know what I was asking. I stated that in my personal opinion, contact is a hit, Its simply my opinion. I am not insulted in the least by your comment. Its your opinion...Not gospel truth. It is clear that you are very insulted by my comment. I am not really into the mysticism associated with the martial arts. But that is probably due to my lack of religious belief. I believe the martial arts can build character and a strong frame of mind. As I stated previously, I will take your sensitivity into consideration with my future post.



And this shows your lack of understanding on forms and the internet and cross posting and typing while someone else is posting live. 



I am not insulted. 
I have seen many like you come here and elsewhere, and try to tell world how they are right and get upset when people do not read their mind and know exactly what answer they want everyone else to write to validate them. 

As to sensitivity, that is one of the keys I teach, is to be soft and to read your opponent. Stop by seminar or camp I am teaching at, introduce yourself and enjoy the training.


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne

Michael Shayne (TV Series 1960–1961) - IMDb


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Rich Parsons said:


> And this shows your lack of understanding on forms and the internet and cross posting and typing while someone else is posting live.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.

I believe that you are just to sensitive and grasping at straws. I also believe that you completely went on the defensive way to quick. As for your seminar...sure. I am always open to trading ideas and arts. I have done that many times. Are you located in the Pacific Northwest?


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> .
> 
> I believe that you are just to sensitive and grasping at straws. I also believe that you completely went on the defensive way to quick. As for your seminar...sure. I am always open to trading ideas and arts. I have done that many times. Are you located in the Pacific Northwest?


Where you at, Holmes? I live in Big Foot Country.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Rich Parsons said:


> Michael Shayne
> 
> Michael Shayne (TV Series 1960–1961) - IMDb


Yup this is who I was named after.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

I 


Touch Of Death said:


> Where you at, Holmes? I live in Big Foot Country.


I am in an area on the Washington Oregon border called the Gorge...do you know it?


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> I
> 
> I am in an area on the Washington Oregon border called the Gorge...do you know it?


No.


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## Michael Shayne (Apr 27, 2016)

Touch Of Death said:


> Where you at, Holmes? I live in Big Foot Country.


Its about 60


Touch Of Death said:


> No.


miles east of Portland and Vancouver....the area of Hood river. Where are you located?


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## Touch Of Death (Apr 27, 2016)

Michael Shayne said:


> Its about 60
> 
> miles east of Portland and Vancouver....the area of Hood river. Where are you located?


Spokane


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## crazydiamond (Apr 28, 2016)

Deleted - I think beyond the subject/intent of this post.


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