# Bahá'í



## Xue Sheng (Jan 25, 2010)

A friend of mine recently told me he was a Bahá'í and not knowing anything about it I went out and did some web research. And today I see a completely unassociated story in the paper about Bahá'í. 

Now not being a religious person I tend to find most organized religions a bit suspicious but after reading about it&#8230; things like



> The independent search after truth, unfettered by superstition or tradition; the oneness of the entire human race, the pivotal principle and fundamental doctrine of the Faith; the basic unity of all religions; the condemnation of all forms of prejudice, whether religious, racial, class or national; the harmony which must exist between religion and science; the equality of men and women, the two wings on which the bird of humankind is able to soar; the introduction of compulsory education; the adoption of a universal auxiliary language; the abolition of the extremes of wealth and poverty; the institution of a world tribunal for the adjudication of disputes between nations; the exaltation of work, performed in the spirit of service, to the rank of worship; the glorification of justice as the ruling principle in human society, and of religion as a bulwark for the protection of all peoples and nations; and the establishment of a permanent and universal peace as the supreme goal of all mankind&#8212;these stand out as the essential elements [which Bahá'u'lláh proclaimed


 
It sounds alright and then I see this



> Unity of religion
> Unity of humankind
> Equality between men and women
> Elimination of all forms of prejudice
> ...


 
And it again looks fine and like a religion I "might" be able agree with.... but I just can&#8217;t get over my suspicions of course the link to Shi'a Islam doesn&#8217;t help (nothing against Shi'a Islam it is just religion, like most including Christianity and Catholicism that I don&#8217;t trust) and I see a list of laws that at face value look good 



> Laws
> - Prayer in the Bahá'í Faith consists of obligatory prayer and devotional (general) prayer. Bahá'ís over the age of 15 must individually recite an obligatory prayer each day, using fixed words and form. In addition to the daily obligatory prayer, believers are directed to daily offer devotional prayer and to meditate and study sacred scripture. There is no set form for devotions and meditations, though the devotional prayers written by the central figures of the Bahá'í Faith and collected in prayer books are held in high esteem. Reading aloud of prayers from prayer books is a typical feature of Bahá'í gatherings.
> - Backbiting and gossip are prohibited and denounced.
> - Adult Bahá'ís in good health should observe a nineteen-day sunrise-to-sunset fast each year from March 2 through March 20.
> ...


 
But again could be just about any other religion or parts of any other religion and the fact that it is rather new as compared to the other religions makes me wonder 

Anyone have any insight into Bahai?


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 25, 2010)

Religion is just a cult that has gained traction. And everyone here knows my thoughts when it comes to religion.

Sorry, I have issues with any group that tells me to do A, B, C and that I cant do X, Y or Z. 

What was that quote?

*I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB*
*THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.*
Groucho Marx


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## Carol (Jan 25, 2010)

Baha'i became popular with a lot of folks at my college.  They were attracted to the peace-and-love-for-all message, but to be honest, I really didn't care for the kind of person they became.   

They took on very strict diets, usually vegan, some going as far as not permitting sugar, others didn't permit artificial substances.  This lead to some very tense scenarios with my friends who were roommates with the converts...roommates tend to have squabbles over who ate who's stuff to begin with, when those squabbles escalate to what is being in the fridge, then that's a different story.

I also didn't like how they were so taken in with everything that was said at their group.  I have no issue with a person being enthusiastic about their path, but to see enthusiasm such as that with very little reflection or introspection makes me a bit suspicious...especially with the way that college-age students were purposefully targeted by Boston Baha'i.

Does it mean that they are bad people?  No, just not my cup of tea.


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## Steve (Jan 25, 2010)

I don't know a lot about the practical observance of this religion, but I will admit that some of the fundamental ideas of it are interesting to me.  The concept of progressive revelation, and how each of the world's religions represents one stage in a long journey toward enlightenment.


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## Nolerama (Jan 25, 2010)

I was at some coffee shop, and made some small talk with a very intelligent, pretty lady and she invited me to a party.

So I went.

And it was a Baha'i recruiting event.

It was a little too much for me... And the thing about "men and women being equals" is a misstated.

Yes, men and women are equals as long as the man brings home the bacon and the woman takes care of the children. That's the concept of "equality." At least, that's how I was introduced to the concept when I asked about it at the recruitment "party".

Having a strong, professional mother, I disagree with that concept, and would like my girlfriend or wife to do whatever it is they want to do, and not just sit around and make babies.

It was also a little too "granola" for me. I've been known to sample the vegetarian dish on the menu, and I sometimes like jam bands and tie-dye... but I draw the line at patchouli. I just do.


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## David43515 (Jan 25, 2010)

Except for the call for a universal language and a universal international court, I didn`t see anything that isn`t touted by almost all religious movements.


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## Steve (Jan 26, 2010)

David43515 said:


> Except for the call for a universal language and a universal international court, I didn`t see anything that isn`t touted by almost all religious movements.


I think that's exactly the point that I was making before.  The only thing that is unique to Bahai is that it specifically DOES incorporate most if not all of the world's major religions.  

I don't have any kind of deep understanding of the religion, but the way it was explained to me is that all of the world's religions represent a step that was taken along the path of enlightenment.  The people who remain in those religions are just sort of stuck at that step... if that makes sense.  

Check this out:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_(Bahá'í)


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I think that's exactly the point that I was making before. The only thing that is unique to Bahai is that it specifically DOES incorporate most if not all of the world's major religions.
> 
> I don't have any kind of deep understanding of the religion, but the way it was explained to me is that all of the world's religions represent a step that was taken along the path of enlightenment. The people who remain in those religions are just sort of stuck at that step... if that makes sense.
> 
> Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_(Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD)


 
I must admit I did find this view rather interesting, enough for me go to their webpage a poke around a bit and that too is was rather interesting, not interesting enough to sign up however, ultimately they gave me the same feeling I get from most religions.


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## Steve (Jan 26, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> I must admit I did find this view rather interesting, enough for me go to their webpage a poke around a bit and that too is was rather interesting, not interesting enough to sign up however, ultimately they gave me the same feeling I get from most religions.


LOL... Well, yeah!  It's religion.  I'm not a religious person.  I have a visceral reaction to anything that suggests some kind of divine safety net.  But I do think it's important to know at least SOMETHING about the major religions of the world.  Like it or not, they have an influence on many things from financial to military considerations.  

And they're very interesting!


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> LOL... Well, yeah! It's religion. I'm not a religious person. I have a visceral reaction to anything that suggests some kind of divine safety net. But I do think it's important to know at least SOMETHING about the major religions of the world. Like it or not, they have an influence on many things from financial to military considerations.
> 
> And they're very interesting!


 

Agreed


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## Blade96 (Jan 26, 2010)

I dated a Bahai once. and broke up with him. the info here is basically correct.

not only was religion disgusting to me, he also told me he didnt like my face, just my chest.

Obviously, that was it for me. 

Those two things.

The guy is married now and for the life of me I dont know why the woman's still married to him.


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## Steve (Jan 26, 2010)

I dated a Canadian once.  She was disgusting too.  Not sure if she was Bahai, though.


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## Ken Morgan (Jan 26, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> I dated a Canadian once. She was disgusting too. Not sure if she was Bahai, though.


 
Think I dated her too.....


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## Steve (Jan 26, 2010)

Ken Morgan said:


> Think I dated her too.....


LOL.    The point being that the previous post was a little ridiculous.  Talk about unjustified generalization.


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## Blade96 (Jan 26, 2010)

I dont think I'm being ridiculous, I can't deal with most of the religious beliefs. There was another guy I dated though he wasnt a strong religious person, he nontheless criticized me because of my pro choice beliefs. 

and my beliefs are not unjustifiable. I've good reasons for my hatred of religion.

I spent a lot of time around lots of religious people, as university is full of them.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 26, 2010)

My ex-wife an Italian Catholic but I sure as heck cant judge all Italians of Catholics by her 

I'm sorry folks but what does dating or Canadians or some guys crass comment have to do with Bahai? If I am to Judge Baha'i by the things I originally posted that they follow and beleive I would have to say the guy in question was a bad Baha'i

 Can we please get back to the topic and can we not get the moderators involved please


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## Blade96 (Jan 26, 2010)

because i know bahai's and just wanted to say that you're right about their beliefs, in your post.

that's all.

I sure didnt intend to get mocked or get a mod involved either!!


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## blindsage (Jan 26, 2010)

Back on topic, guess what Xue, you know two Baha'is. I'm a Baha'i, and I'm happy to answer any questions anybody has (although I'm not particularly interested in any drawn out theological debates). Just to clarify a couple of things, Baha'is are not vegetarian, let alone vegan. The only real dietary restriction for Baha'is is we don't drink alcohol, that's pretty much it. As for equality between the sexes, no there are no specific roles for men and women in the family. Do some people bring other beliefs into their practice of the Faith, yes, but they are not teachings of the Faith. Equality between the sexes is very explicit in the Baha'i writings.


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## Carol (Jan 26, 2010)

blindsage said:


> Just to clarify a couple of things, Baha'is are not vegetarian, let alone vegan.



Thank you very much. :asian:

So its possible, or even likely, that the group my college friends got involved with was not genuinely Baha'i, or an unrelated subgroup that opted for an unusually orthodox lifestyle, for whatever reason.   That would make more sense, if that's the case.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2010)

blindsage said:


> Back on topic, guess what Xue, you know two Baha'is. I'm a Baha'i, and I'm happy to answer any questions anybody has (although I'm not particularly interested in any drawn out theological debates). Just to clarify a couple of things, Baha'is are not vegetarian, let alone vegan. The only real dietary restriction for Baha'is is we don't drink alcohol, that's pretty much it. As for equality between the sexes, no there are no specific roles for men and women in the family. Do some people bring other beliefs into their practice of the Faith, yes, but they are not teachings of the Faith. Equality between the sexes is very explicit in the Baha'i writings.


 
Thank You very much :asian:

I may just PM you at some point and ask a few questions.

From what he told me it seemed fine, I was just a bit concerned, but then just about all religions concern me to varying degrees. 

However I should make it clear that it is not necessarily the religions themselves that concern me as much as it is what those that practice these religions use them for, justify with them or make of them.


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## Steve (Jan 27, 2010)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thank You very much :asian:
> 
> I may just PM you at some point and ask a few questions.
> 
> ...


This is a very important distinction, in my opinion. While there are cults that are disgusting, such as perhaps the Thuggee's or the People's Temple cult, these tend to be distortions of a well defined religion. Religions as a belief system tend to stand in stark contrast sometimes to how these religious systems are distorted and manipulated by people looking to use the built in rhetoric to quickly gain power over a group.

Sorry if I came off as a little sarcastic before, but my tongue in cheek comment about dating a Canadian was speaking specificaly to this point. To say that the religion is disgusting seems to me to be a completely unwarranted statement. My impression is that blade96 knows even less about the religion than I, and drawing any kind of conclusions from a failed relationship is a recipe for disaster.

All of this simply to say that it's important to distinguish between religious philosophy and the execution of this philosophy. Somewhere between the dogma and heresy lies the observance of any religion.


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## Xue Sheng (Jan 27, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> This is a very important distinction, in my opinion. While there are cults that are disgusting, such as perhaps the Thuggee's or the People's Temple cult, these tend to be distortions of a well defined religion. Religions as a belief system tend to stand in stark contrast sometimes to how these religious systems are distorted and manipulated by people looking to use the built in rhetoric to quickly gain power over a group.


 
That same rhetoric was also set off an inquisition or two as well as a couple of Crusades to name just a few things



stevebjj said:


> All of this simply to say that it's important to distinguish between religious philosophy and the execution of this philosophy. Somewhere between the dogma and heresy lies the observance of any religion.


 
Exactly, I was incredibly interested in religious philosophy in college however when I witnessed the application of that philosophy by practitioners, a few priests (various religions), ministers and a nun or two things got very different very fast.


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## kaizasosei (Jan 27, 2010)

I think it is an especially empowering religion if practiced correctly and from young age.  

Of course converts and extremists long to be different.  That is one of the downsides of ritual and custom as well. People will turn the best religion into a freaky cult just because they want to be different and actually are vehemently and often violently excluding that which does not match whatever said beliefs.  It's the evil in us, it's part of the journey maybe-sometimes even failing is a necessary experience. 
Can't help wonder what lies ahead? 


j


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## Blade96 (Jan 27, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> This is a very important distinction, in my opinion. While there are cults that are disgusting, such as perhaps the Thuggee's or the People's Temple cult, these tend to be distortions of a well defined religion. *Religions as a belief system tend to stand in stark contrast sometimes to how these religious systems are distorted and manipulated by people looking to use the built in rhetoric to quickly gain power over a group.*
> 
> Sorry if I came off as a little sarcastic before, but my tongue in cheek comment about dating a Canadian was speaking specificaly to this point. To say that the religion is disgusting seems to me to be a completely unwarranted statement. *My impression is that blade96 knows even less about the religion than I, and drawing any kind of conclusions from a failed relationship is a recipe for disaster.*
> 
> All of this simply to say that it's important to distinguish between religious philosophy and the execution of this philosophy. Somewhere between the dogma and heresy lies the observance of any religion.


 
here's where I felt judged and mocked. You're assuming based on what? You dont know me, so how do you know what i know? You assuming I never knew the first bolded statement?  Actually my main study in history, the country i studied the most, (and my other major) was the history of Russia. And Karl Marx. I know very well how the original ideas of people are later distorted and used by later generations. It was in the philosopher that I studied the most. Marx. and Jesus Christ was another one. the same. people distorted his idea. an example would be in one of the ten commandments 'thou shall not kill' and people of today's world, not everybody, but some religions have taken that to mean no abortions. though the bible I know makes it clear the born woman has personhood and the fetus does not. 

and the second bolded statement, I learned about the religion from the Bahais I'd known at university.

Sorry, Xue, about your topic derailment, but when he said that, that 'my impression is she knows less' I could not hold my tongue.


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## Steve (Jan 27, 2010)

If you feel mocked, you should report the post to the mods.  If you know more about Bahai than you've let on, please share it.


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## Blade96 (Jan 27, 2010)

stevebjj said:


> If you feel mocked, you should report the post to the mods. If you know more about Bahai than you've let on, please share it.


 
No need. I dont think you are the type of person who i would need to get the mod involved to resolve a difference with. Actually no one here seems that antagonistic.

Yeah, I tell you a couple of things some of the Bahai's at university told me though what Xue said is right, there isnt much to add.

Bahai's dont believe that heaven and hell are physical places that you go to when you die. Instead they believe its how far you are from God (and they are monotheistic and believe in only one God)

Bahaullah was the creator of Bahai its founder and was born in Persia (now called Iran) and his dates are 1817-1892 (though anyone can find that who is familiar with the art of _google-do_

They dont drink or use drugs except when they're sick because they believe they weaken the mind. and they believe the brain should be strong.

Two big problems I have with Bahai is, as Xue pointed out, their notion about 'female equality with men' I since I had a friend who is Bahai, went on websites to learn about the religion as well as what he told me himself. Yet they talk, and so did he, about how they do believe in women and men's differences' for example the guy (who i havent been friends with in years) said about how female characteristics such as emotion and passivity are as important as male characteristics. My thoughts were, why do they have to be considered feminine? Can't men have them too? and should they also be encouraged in men as well, if they're so valuable? 

another thing is, Bahai websites and the Bahais at university i knew, said they do not impose their religion on others, beliving that 'people must find their own truth' Yet the founder, and the highest ups in Bahai councils and so on, They tell you what to drink. When to eat. what to do. Its true that Xue said, if your over 15 you must recite a prayer every day. You have to do religious ritual every day. You must remain a virgin until you get married. You can't be homosexual. (btw a bahai saying that or thinking that about my brown belt lesbian friend in my dojo, that she's wrong for being who she is, and that her relationship with her gf Laura is less valuable or less important that that of a husband a wife duo) That , and i feel im safe in generalizing, most of us who are married were not virgins beforehand. are we somehow wrong because we did not wait? btw when im out with my friends, I drink. I dont think I am ruining my mind cause I decided to have a few. 

I'm sorry, the hypocrisy (and irony) doesnt escape me here. 

That is just 2 reasons why I rejected the religion. See, wasnt 'just because of one bad apple i dated'


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## blindsage (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you for following up and clarifying things Blade.



Blade96 said:


> Bahai's dont believe that heaven and hell are physical places that you go to when you die. Instead they believe its how far you are from God (and they are monotheistic and believe in only one God)
> 
> Bahaullah was the creator of Bahai its founder and was born in Persia (now called Iran) and his dates are 1817-1892 (though anyone can find that who is familiar with the art of _google-do_
> 
> They dont drink or use drugs except when they're sick because they believe they weaken the mind. and they believe the brain should be strong.


These are all pretty much correct.



> Two big problems I have with Bahai is, as Xue pointed out, their notion about 'female equality with men' I since I had a friend who is Bahai, went on websites to learn about the religion as well as what he told me himself. Yet they talk, and so did he, about how they do believe in women and men's differences' for example the guy (who i havent been friends with in years) said about how female characteristics such as emotion and passivity are as important as male characteristics. My thoughts were, why do they have to be considered feminine? Can't men have them too? and should they also be encouraged in men as well, if they're so valuable?


Yes, they absolutely can. There is discussion in the Faith that there are differences between men and women, but it is not meant to pigeon hole one or the other into any kind of specific roles, rather it is to expand on the notion of equality in diversity and to understand that we don't have to attach equality to sameness.



> another thing is, Bahai websites and the Bahais at university i knew, said they do not impose their religion on others, beliving that 'people must find their own truth' Yet the founder, and the highest ups in Bahai councils and so on, They tell you what to drink. When to eat. what to do. Its true that Xue said, if your over 15 you must recite a prayer every day. You have to do religious ritual every day. You must remain a virgin until you get married. You can't be homosexual. (btw a bahai saying that or thinking that about my brown belt lesbian friend in my dojo, that she's wrong for being who she is, and that her relationship with her gf Laura is less valuable or less important that that of a husband a wife duo) That , and i feel im safe in generalizing, most of us who are married were not virgins beforehand. are we somehow wrong because we did not wait? btw when im out with my friends, I drink. I dont think I am ruining my mind cause I decided to have a few.


You seem to be conflating two different different issues here. Not imposing the religion on others means just that, Baha'is to not seek to impose our religion or beliefs on people who are not Bahai's. As for what practices there are once you become a Baha'i, that is a different issue. The laws and practices of the Faith as laid down by Baha'u'llah are not seperate from the spiritual ideas, they are part and parcel. If you accept belief in Baha'u'llah you are accepting His religion as it is laid down. The only dietary laws are that you don't drink alcohol. The only laws about "when to eat" have to do with fasting once a year, and nobody makes you do that. Nobody tells you what to do, but acceptance of belief in Baha'u'llah assumes an acceptance of the laws and practices He has laid down. One of those is prayer daily, but there are no prayer 'police', whether you are following this obligation is between you and God. Staying a virgin until you are married is a law that Baha'u'llah has laid down, but seriously do you think in this society that all Baha'is have kept to this? I'm not that delusional, but it's also none of my business. Whether an individual Baha'i has kept this tenet is between them and God (and probably their spouse). Whether you are a virgin or not is none of my business and certainly isn't something for me to judge you on. No, as a Baha'i you can't practice homosexuality. You can be a Baha'i and be a homosexual. Sorry, I can't make that different for you, but yes it is a part of Baha'i belief. Judging people for being homosexual and treating them without the compasssion you would give to any other person is not acceptable in the Faith.



> I'm sorry, the hypocrisy (and irony) doesnt escape me here.[/quote
> 
> That is just 2 reasons why I rejected the religion. See, wasnt 'just because of one bad apple i dated'


I think many of your complaints are fine. If you don't agree or accept those ideas, then you shoudn't submit yourself to a belief system you disagree with. I would say that though that the gist of your disagreements doesn't seem to be with the practices themselves, but in your perception that Baha'is will judge others for not agreeing or engaging in the same behavior. This is generally not my experience, nor is it acceptable by the teachings of the Faith.


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## Blade96 (Jan 28, 2010)

blindsage said:


> Thank you for following up and clarifying things Blade.
> 
> 
> These are all pretty much correct.


 
Thanks. 




			
				blindsage said:
			
		

> Yes, they absolutely can. There is discussion in the Faith that there are differences between men and women, but it is not meant to pigeon hole one or the other into any kind of specific roles, rather it is to expand on the notion of equality in diversity and to understand that we don't have to attach equality to sameness.


 
Oh I know they can. But thats what happens because at least the groups of Bahais I knew, and what I have read, none of it follows up and says that these traits are not exclusively 'female' men should have these traits, and they say only 'the female part of society should be embraced as well' thus causing the distinction and separation of the traits into specific roles. They do make that distinction, though they may not intend to and not what they might wish. 



			
				blindsage said:
			
		

> You seem to be conflating two different different issues here. Not imposing the religion on others means just that, Baha'is to not seek to impose our religion or beliefs on people who are not Bahai's. As for what practices there are once you become a Baha'i, that is a different issue. The laws and practices of the Faith as laid down by Baha'u'llah are not seperate from the spiritual ideas, they are part and parcel. If you accept belief in Baha'u'llah you are accepting His religion as it is laid down. The only dietary laws are that you don't drink alcohol. The only laws about "when to eat" have to do with fasting once a year, and nobody makes you do that. Nobody tells you what to do, but acceptance of belief in Baha'u'llah assumes an acceptance of the laws and practices He has laid down. One of those is prayer daily, but there are no prayer 'police', whether you are following this obligation is between you and God. Staying a virgin until you are married is a law that Baha'u'llah has laid down, but seriously do you think in this society that all Baha'is have kept to this? I'm not that delusional, but it's also none of my business. Whether an individual Baha'i has kept this tenet is between them and God (and probably their spouse). Whether you are a virgin or not is none of my business and certainly isn't something for me to judge you on. No, as a Baha'i you can't practice homosexuality. You can be a Baha'i and be a homosexual. Sorry, I can't make that different for you, but yes it is a part of Baha'i belief. Judging people for being homosexual and treating them without the compasssion you would give to any other person is not acceptable in the Faith.
> 
> I think many of your complaints are fine. If you don't agree or accept those ideas, then you shoudn't submit yourself to a belief system you disagree with. I would say that though that the gist of your disagreements doesn't seem to be with the practices themselves, but in your perception that Baha'is will judge others for not agreeing or engaging in the same behavior. This is generally not my experience, nor is it acceptable by the teachings of the Faith.


 
Its generally been my experience, not just with Bahai's, but most people no matter what religion, that you get judged for being sifferent or having a different lifestyle. I mean you do anywhere, its part of human nature. Even people who arent religious judge. MA senseis think their own MA is the best. Is it good though? Not really. But the bahai's (and most people I'd known in life for that matter)  tended to judge. That's a big reason why I try to never do it.


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## blindsage (Feb 1, 2010)

Blade96 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Oh I know they can. But thats what happens because at least the groups of Bahais I knew, and what I have read, none of it follows up and says that these traits are not exclusively 'female' men should have these traits, and they say only 'the female part of society should be embraced as well' thus causing the distinction and separation of the traits into specific roles. They do make that distinction, though they may not intend to and not what they might wish.


There are comments in the writings about what are 'male' and 'female' traits, but the context of what it is talking about in those passages is bringing qualities that have been previously considered secondary to a place of equality in our society. It does not say they are exclusive to either, nor do I believe that that is their intent. It is also very clear when studying the writings in more depth and as a whole that there are no roles designed exclusively for either gender, and though I have known a few Bahai's that seem to subscribe to more traditional notions of gender roles, this is not a standard derived from the Faith.



> Its generally been my experience, not just with Bahai's, but most people no matter what religion, that you get judged for being sifferent or having a different lifestyle. I mean you do anywhere, its part of human nature. Even people who arent religious judge. MA senseis think their own MA is the best. Is it good though? Not really. But the bahai's (and most people I'd known in life for that matter) tended to judge. That's a big reason why I try to never do it.


I have known plenty of Bahai's that are judgmental as well, and you're right, regardless of belief system you are going to see this. All I can tell you is that there is a significant portion of the Baha'i writings devoted to engendering the opposite attitudes and behaviors, but people are human, and again, my overall experience with Baha'is for over 30 years has been very positive. But there is also a difference between disagreeing with the choices people make and believing and treating them as 'bad'. You do not have to agree with everything someone does or every choice they make in order to treat them with respect, acceptance and love. That is what the teachings of Baha'u'llah promote, though it is not always what fallible people accomplish. I'm sorry, if you have experienced otherwise.


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