# crying dragon



## Cirdan

Seems Shodai Soke Bruce Calkins is still a bit sore about the reception he got here some time ago...
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Internetbullshido.html


no worries he just got this to keep him warm 
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/lifetimeachievementaward.html

I must admit I still check this site regularly just for the laug.. ahem the true greatness I mean


----------



## girlbug2

I wasn't around at the time so I missed out on all the drama. I gather he was accused of being fake because nobody ever heard of his style or instructor?


----------



## Andrew Green

not exactly, he was given every opportunity possible to explain who he was and what he did.  He missused terminology, had the history of the styles he claimed to have a background in all wrong, created his own and declared himself 10th dan and soke.

Punch his name into the search and you'll find the mess that was created when he arrived.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Search in The Great Debate for "Calkins" and you'll find most of the threads in question.


----------



## clfsean

He still whines today about it...


----------



## grydth

Cirdan said:


> Seems Shodai Soke Bruce Calkins is still a bit sore about the reception he got here some time ago...
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Internetbullshido.html
> 
> 
> no worries he just got this to keep him warm
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/lifetimeachievementaward.html
> 
> I must admit I still check this site regularly just for the laug.. ahem the true greatness I mean




I, too, have had some cheap laughs at that site .... but ultimately one winds up just feeling very badly for the whole lot of them.

Watching the Golden Dragon parody of "sticky hands"   - - sticky feet - -  is hysterical, at least until one pictures some one of these poor persons trying to use this atrocity on the street and getting killed.

There's the funny guy with a bokken and horribly tied white belt.... but  could not he have been any of us when we were newbies? I found quality instructors, he wound up there. That doesn't make me any better than him, just more fortunate.

Calkins himself craves respectability. He seeks it with meaningless honors, and now has yet another silly certificate. Yet he has no clue that the true path would be humility, to go to a true teacher as a white belt and learn so that he would have something to teach. There's a lot of value to the old saying from the Bible that those who humble themselves will be exalted and those that exalt themselves will be humbled...... but don't count on the Soke figuring that one out any time soon.


----------



## terryl965

When I need a pick me up that is the place to be, you can laugh until you are blue in the face.


----------



## The Last Legionary

He's laughed at quite a bit on the web, and sadly behind his back in NY as well. I dropped by an event he was at a while back and the snickering was painful to watch. Of course, I had opcorn: so it was more bearable for me.


----------



## bluemtn

After a little search, apparently we're not the only "guilty" party in his toes getting stepped on.


----------



## KickFest

I missed all this the first time as well, but I've just watched the "Lu Ling Sao" video in the video vault section of the golden dragon site. I don't know Chinese but I assume this translates as "Blowing on chopsticks to make them move" . Interesting how he describes the technique as using ELECTRICAL energy to move WOODEN chopsticks


----------



## tshadowchaser

If I remember correctly he was invited to show at the meet and greet one year. Or maybe it was only suggested he show because we all knew he would not. (I could be wrong we may not have invited him )

As for the new certificate he has, I wonder how much it cost


----------



## teekin

KickFest said:


> I missed all this the first time as well, but I've just watched the "Lu Ling Sao" video in the video vault section of the golden dragon site. I don't know Chinese but I assume this translates as "Blowing on chopsticks to make them move". Interesting how he describes the technique as using *ELECTRICAL energy to move WOODEN chopsticks *



I do believe this is called the _*Four-f Incendiary Reduction Effect*_, or _*F.I.R.E*_. for short. I myself have mastered F.I.R.E. using electricity and wood and wood by-products like paper quite by accident. Where is my :cuss:certificate!?

Lori (10th F.I.R.E. Soke)


----------



## Andy Moynihan

Looks like his stuff primarily consists of Special High Intensity Training to me.......


----------



## Cirdan

Andy Moynihan said:


> Looks like his stuff primarily consists of Special High Intensity Training to me.......


 
I hear he teaches some Creative Real Action Powertransfer also...


----------



## Twin Fist

wow, that guy has a spiffy web page...............


----------



## shesulsa

Twin Fist said:


> wow, that guy has a spiffy web page...............


I'm diggin' on the hammer pants.


----------



## Cryozombie

I'm waiting for The Bruce Calkins Action Figure line to come out.

But seriously.  If he has a lifetime achievement award, what else is there...


----------



## Cryozombie

tshadowchaser said:


> If I remember correctly he was invited to show at the meet and greet one year. Or maybe it was only suggested he show because we all knew he would not. (I could be wrong we may not have invited him )
> 
> As for the new certificate he has, I wonder how much it cost


 
He WANTS to come in 2009, look!

*



Contact Soke Calkins if you have an Event you would like to have the Golden Dragons At.

E-Mail your Event:                 

Put "Golden Dragon Event" 

in the Subject Line​

Click to expand...

*​
PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ invite him in 2009!  I'd come!


----------



## shesulsa

:lol2:


----------



## Cirdan

Are they practicing ninja magic now or just trying to look ehh.. cool?

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bwDM...aXGdHYosPA5j*ZBORSvY/P?dc=4675693104658458439


----------



## shesulsa

Cirdan said:


> Are they practicing ninja magic now or just trying to look ehh.. cool?
> 
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bwDMGgQhhzp6f3wvRYTjCo!!shc5F!ckI92*IvBrDtmvyofcqa!7uRhfk3GZnbRVMS0baPca7f8TynHy1xXaQh6JZH*SWpYdE0eE1!lslODH7NCO*a4IYCdw7dCQQLmTKp6L9nP!1*5CaXGdHYosPA5j*ZBORSvY/P?dc=4675693104658458439


Anyone else having trouble with this link?


----------



## Cirdan

shesulsa said:


> Anyone else having trouble with this link?


 
umm yes. Strange I did test it before posting.

Just click on the "open mind forum" on http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Home.html and go to _pictures_ and then _golden dragon instructors_. Middle row, the one all the way ro the right.


----------



## Makalakumu

Cryozombie said:


> But seriously. If he has a lifetime achievement award, what else is there...


 
If I got a lifetime acheivement award, I'd kill myself.  There'd be no more reason to live!

:mst:


----------



## exile

maunakumu said:


> If I got a lifetime acheivement award, I'd kill myself.  There'd be no more reason to live!
> 
> :mst:



Reminds me of the joke in the old Ozark country song _Arkansas Traveller_, where the lost city slicker asks the country 'bumpkin' (who one-ups him every time) if he's lived here all his life, and the country guy answers, 'Not yet!'.


----------



## Cirdan

> If I got a lifetime acheivement award, I'd kill myself. There'd be no more reason to live!


 

Seems the lifetime acheivement award only wet his (already huge) apetite, he just got instructor of the year and dojo of the year awards and suprise suprise he will enter the "Hall of Fame" pretty soon. Gee what took him so long?

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Events.html

By the way, these it seems this august organization also awards FOUNDER OF THE YEAR awards. To several (5 or 10) uber-masters each time. And check their black belt club.. but sit down first!

http://dlma.iwarp.com/about.html

GAH! I need a new coffee!


----------



## Kreth

Cirdan said:


> Seems the lifetime acheivement award only wet his (already huge) apetite, he just got instructor of the year and dojo of the year awards and suprise suprise he will enter the "Hall of Fame" pretty soon. Gee what took him so long?


Whose hall of fame, Denny's? :lol:


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Funny, I'm at a number of local tournaments and I've yet to see him or his people there.


----------



## Carol

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]


> Forum sites like **************, SubFighter.com Martialtalk.com are just some of the forums that like to BASH anyone not in their style and their Idea of a perfect martial artist. They get their kicks out of making fun of system, instructors and students they have never met. They base their comments on poor attitude and ignorance. I have read most of the things that have posted and I just laugh. They claim that Im fake because they have never heard of my instructors. Am I fake because I have a few extra pounds on my body. They say Im fake because they have never heard of my style Well thats fine. That is what makes them happy then more power to them. I know my abilities and once people meet me then find out the truth.



But he didn't "just laugh: did he?  

And I have no doubt that once people meet him they find out the truth  
[/FONT]


----------



## Kreth

Calkins said:
			
		

> [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
> 
> [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Am I fake because I have a few extra pounds on my body.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
> [/FONT]


Hey guess what, Bruce? I'm a fat **** too, and *I* think you're fake. :rofl:


----------



## Edmund BlackAdder

Made up history? Check.
Laughed at all over the internet? Check.
Bought Rank? Check.
Misused Titles and Ranks? Check.
Only goes where he gets patted on his back? Check.
Considered a joke by any reputable school in the area? Check. (And Checked)
Awarded more praise and rank and whatnot from other questionable sorts? Check.

Who is this UMAA again?  Another rank mill I guess.  Robert Austin is the head of it. 
http://www.ibbakarate.com/school/united-martial-arts-alliance.asp
Flyer I picked up on them a few years back basically said they will "recogize your rank", and seem to cover all disciplines. Koch's own system is a hodge podge of Tracy kenpo, with some Parkers mixed in, and some other stuff that they got from who knows where. He lists "American Self-Defense Studios in Cheektowaga, New York" as his origin, which is a well known McDojo that shut down years back. Alden NY isn't exactly NYC. They consider Buffalo "Big City" and "High Crime".

You have a bunch of nobodies buying rank, giving inflated atta boys, and teaching crap fantasy arts.


----------



## grydth

Bob Hubbard said:


> Funny, I'm at a number of local tournaments and I've yet to see him or his people there.



Have you checked the bottoms of your shoes?


----------



## grydth

Cirdan said:


> Seems the lifetime acheivement award only wet his (already huge) apetite, he just got instructor of the year and dojo of the year awards and suprise suprise he will enter the "Hall of Fame" pretty soon. Gee what took him so long?
> 
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Events.html
> 
> By the way, these it seems this august organization also awards FOUNDER OF THE YEAR awards. To several (5 or 10) uber-masters each time. And check their black belt club.. but sit down first!
> 
> http://dlma.iwarp.com/about.html
> 
> GAH! I need a new coffee!



Odd thing is that, by his own site's pictures, he seems to now have fewer than 10 students.... With all of the glitter and bling, I would have expected the combined populations of Glendale and Perry to be flocking to the place for enlightenment.

Maybe the criteria for selection is that you have more meaningless awards than students...


----------



## Rich Parsons

grydth said:


> Have you checked the bottoms of your shoes?


 

Bob you better scrape it off quick. I hear the smell stays for a long time.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

My shoes are clean folks.  


Calkins popped into a bunch of forums and tried to impress with his title and extensive training. He got roasted as a result that at least 3 sites, independently investigating his claims came to the same conclusion. That he made it up, and he bought some rank.  

Honestly, who cares?  So did a lot of people.  Some created arts, and actually did something good; most created crap, inflated their egos and screwed lots of clueless folks.

Warsaw (pop 3,600), and Alden (pop 2,500), are both small towns.  Calkins isn't a big fish no matter how you slice it. He runs out of a church or a community center, in the functional equivalent of Mayberry. It's a poor town and the only other Warsaw native I dealt with was someone I turned info on over to the FBI back in 2005.

Calkins had an open invite to demo at one of our meets. He didn't bother to show up. 

Smart people know how "Hall of Fames" work.  You get the award provided you pay for it. If not, it goes to someone else, who will pay for it.  I've been invited into a dozen. I didn't want to drop $95 on a dinner, or $399 for a ring. Guess how many awards I got?

MartialTalk has a Hall of Fame. We don't charge for awards. We also don't give out big brass rings or wall candy. Maybe we should. Maybe we should start recognizing ranks too.  Who wants a nice 11x14 wall scroll with their name, rank and our Steering Boards signatures? $199, framed. Contact me for details, and allow 8-12 weeks for delivery (since I have to ship it around to each one to sign, and give them their cut).
You don't even have to travel and eat cold buffet food!


----------



## Twin Fist

why hasnt someone just gone over there and beat this turd down in front of his students?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Those laws get in the way.  Plus, the guy's essentially harmless. Yeah, there is that question of legitimacy, but it's small town USA, not NYC or LA.


----------



## searcher

I remember when he was around, but honestly, he was always a point of humor.


----------



## Twin Fist

screw the law


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Twin Fist said:


> screw the law


Her, yes.

Him, No.


----------



## Cirdan

grydth said:


> Odd thing is that, by his own site's pictures, he seems to now have fewer than 10 students.... With all of the glitter and bling, I would have expected the combined populations of Glendale and Perry to be flocking to the place for enlightenment.


 
Seems he gives them their black belt pretty quick then they go back to watching power rangers because they have learned all they can. And they are probably right too... His only long time student is his 2nd in command "Renshi" who went from brown belt to 4th dan in three years.

There is a breaking video of one of his students in the "open mind forum" on his webpage. This guy also has a black belt in TKD so he might actually have learned a few things. Breaking is not my game but does he display anything resembling skill? Looks completely untrained to me.

You know, if these guys put a fraction of the time they spent playing in the sand box into some real training they could actually _IMPROVE_


----------



## terryl965

Twin Fist said:


> screw the law


 
TF he has been someone we can all have a good laugh on, why miss with the comedy side of Martial Arts.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

If you look at all the names on his instructor page, and all the high ranks in his "system" that he's issued, then go look at the websites of those same people, note how many acknowledge those ranks.


----------



## Bester

Good point.

Compare
http://www.internationalkenpo.com/staff/bob_koch_new.htm
and
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/instructors.html
Looks like Mr. Koch doesn't acknowledge his Fusho-Satori-Ryu rank.
Also looks like either Brucey gave him a promotion in kenpo, or Koch's web designer is slacking in updating.

A number of those names are found on "Soke" boards.
Sensei Robert Sterling - *http://www.soke.org/members.htm*
Renshi Paul Corrigan, etc

Google them.  The first hit on many is Sucky Calkin's website. Truly these are heavy hitters in the martial arts world, true innovators too cheap, too lazy, too busy watching TMNT prepping for tonights class to get real.  Too busy swapping rank and patting each other on their backs as they add yet another honorific or title stolen from a foriegn language, to worry about something as boring as actually knowing a real art.  One wonders, where the batlet ends and the tire flip begins.

It's interesting that Kochs site doesn't list Calkins, despite this supposed long running relationship. Nor do any of the others that I found.


----------



## hongkongfooey

His video vault is amusing, especially the "one finger break"


----------



## Cirdan

Oh my, they have learned to photoshop!

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/Photos.html

Putting a Japanese monument behind me means I am skilled and spiritual right?


----------



## The Last Legionary

Saw him "officiate" at a competition a few weeks back. Man did he suck. Might be nice to learn how to ref before getting tossed into the mix, but when you're "special", and dealing with other inflated self-promoted losers, well, **** floats right?

He, his school, his students, and his associates are all jokes.


----------



## Twin Fist

well, I notice he wears a white belt.......so at last he is honest


----------



## clfsean

Twin Fist said:


> well, I notice he wears a white belt.......so at last he is honest



Yes but it does have a gold stripe through the middle of it... unless he changed it.


----------



## teekin

clfsean said:


> Yes *but it does have a gold stripe through the middle of it.*.. unless he changed it.



That just means he likes Disco.:wink1:
lori


----------



## Cryozombie

grendel308 said:


> that just means he likes disco.:wink1:
> Lori


 
lol.


----------



## Cirdan

Grendel308 said:


> That just means he likes Disco.:wink1:
> lori


 
Yes he is the Disco Dragon of the golden dragon dojo.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Anyway he wears the white belt with gold trim as a "visible sign of his own humbleness". I am so impressed.


----------



## The Last Legionary

The Last Legionary said:


> Saw him "officiate" at a competition a few weeks back. Man did he suck. Might be nice to learn how to ref before getting tossed into the mix, but when you're "special", and dealing with other inflated self-promoted losers, well, **** floats right?
> 
> He, his school, his students, and his associates are all jokes.


Updating LOL!

From a reliable source, Calkins went to the Patricko event in Niagara Falls in March and royally screwed up the sparring division. As a result, he's no longer allowed to be a center referee at IMAF events. Maybe he should have showed them his rad klingon-ninja skillz? :roflmao:


----------



## teekin

Cirdan said:


> Yes he is the Disco Dragon of the golden dragon dojo..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway he wears the white belt with gold trim as a "visible sign of his own humbleness". I am so impressed.



This guy needs a huuuuge sparkley gold codpiece to complete the picture. And a bright purple Diablo Kit car ( made from a Fierro). :idea:
lori


----------



## Cirdan

The good Soke chops up potatoes on the sidewalk to show off his mad skills..  the locals don`t seem too impressed tho.

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/april2009openhouse/MOV05023.MPG

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/events2009.html


----------



## Ken Morgan

Never heard of this guy.

It is so sad when MAists or anyone for that matter, does the old cut a vegetable with an iaito trick. His cuts are bad and he cuts with the wrong part of the sword. Dont even get me going on the sword/baton twirling stuff

One, the veggie never did anything to harm anyone, innocent flora being murdered is not pretty.
 Two It really gives a bad impression to the bystanders on what you can do with a sword.
 Three is he really that hard up that he needs to do tricks to attract people to his club?


----------



## Cryozombie

Ken Morgan said:


> One, the veggie never did anything to harm anyone, innocent flora being murdered is not pretty.



I dunno... I think it was giving Axel Foley some ideas... it had to go.


----------



## JadecloudAlchemist

That girl was laughing at them!! When a cute girl laughs at you then you have disgraced yourself and must commit Seppuku. Unless...Unless you can do something cool to redeem yourself. I have felt the cold wrath of a cute girl laughing at me only to redeem myself by impressing a lesser cuter girl who sometimes had a mustache. But a mustache girl is better than Seppuku or is it....:lfao:


----------



## celtic_crippler

Disappointing.


----------



## Cirdan

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> That girl was laughing at them!! When a cute girl laughs at you then you have disgraced yourself and must commit Seppuku. Unless...Unless you can do something cool to redeem yourself. I have felt the cold wrath of a cute girl laughing at me only to redeem myself by impressing a lesser cuter girl who sometimes had a mustache. But a mustache girl is better than Seppuku or is it....:lfao:


 
I can imagine Brucie dressed up in his klingon best, comitting Seppuku with his bat`leth


----------



## Ken Morgan

JadecloudAlchemist said:


> That girl was laughing at them!! When a cute girl laughs at you then you have disgraced yourself and must commit Seppuku. Unless...Unless you can do something cool to redeem yourself. I have felt the cold wrath of a cute girl laughing at me only to redeem myself by impressing a lesser cuter girl who sometimes had a mustache. But a mustache girl is better than Seppuku or is it....:lfao:


 
LOL.:lfao::lfao:


----------



## Decker

> (huge image not included)[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]*
> Cutting A Cucumber off The Carotid Artery On Sempai Christine.*[/FONT]


3rd pic from bottom of the Events 2009 ("New This Year" link on the Events page) page. Not good...


----------



## Cirdan

Relax, I am sure he taught her iron shirt so she can`t be hurt

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/2009FireDeptFieldDays/DSC_2877.JPG


----------



## Decker

But did the shirt taught reach up to the neck? Heh.


----------



## Ken Morgan

Cirdan said:


> Relax, I am sure he taught her iron shirt so she can`t be hurt
> 
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/2009FireDeptFieldDays/DSC_2877.JPG


 
Perfect example of how do you know when you've found a mcdojo.

 No respected organization should allow this person to be involved in any way shape or form.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

Anyone notice his grip on that SLO? (Sword like object)


----------



## searcher

Bob Hubbard said:


> Anyone notice his grip on that SLO? (Sword like object)


 

It does look like they were playing softball Bob.    Look at the background.


I don't know which scares me more: the fact that he is doing this, that he posted the pic, or that she is the schools Sempai.     I guess that they all must be heavily practiced in the art of Eat-fu.    Because, dang, they are all huge at that place.


I am not bashing overweight people, I am just making a funny.


----------



## Cirdan

His Greatness with the Deadly Diciples. Are you scared yet?

http://www.goldendragondojo.com/fil.../Golden_Dragons_At_Diabetes_Kick_off_2008.JPG


----------



## grydth

Ken Morgan said:


> Perfect example of how do you know when you've found a mcdojo.
> 
> No respected organization should allow this person to be involved in any way shape or form.



This photo simply shows the process of Natural Selection at work.

Please all: SSSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!   Do not disturb them. Let nature take its course.


----------



## Bester

http://www.icmaua.com/EncyclMasters/ArtistsEncyclopediaC.htm

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Calkins_Soke_1162633590.aspx

http://www.myspace.com/sokecalkins

http://www.subfighter.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7103

[yt]zrxXpFQ_QIQ[/yt]
[yt]61j8AUXroS4[/yt]

Funny ****.


----------



## celtic_crippler

At least he's wearing a white belt.


----------



## shesulsa

Ah yes. Let's hope that everyone who drives or walks by his studio has the good sense to visit MartialTalk's Horror Stories section to verify he's the real deal.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

What? We're not as widely read as the Wall Street Journal?  Well, we must fix that! I'm going to insist that some piece of upcoming legislation includes a bailout for MT so we can provide homepage locked netbooks to karate moms.


----------



## shesulsa

Lol


----------



## Stuey

Cirdan said:


> The good Soke chops up potatoes on the sidewalk to show off his mad skills.. the locals don`t seem too impressed tho.
> 
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/april2009openhouse/MOV05023.MPG
> 
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/events2009.html


 
Is it me or does that white belt (students white belt) look as though its fresh out of the pack? Its unfortunate that there is a huge market in entertaining weak minded people, no, dominating them in the name of making them great. How does one get a green faced white belt to hold out their hand for stuff like that? Thats just control over the weak minded.


----------



## grydth

It isn't only the students.... one of the instructors is a ni dan now, but was only an orange belt a year or two ago. 

Their site is, unintentionally, the best MA comedy site going.


----------



## grydth

Cirdan said:


> Relax, I am sure he taught her iron shirt so she can`t be hurt
> 
> http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/2009FireDeptFieldDays/DSC_2877.JPG



*** Ladies*** How can you tell if your husband has found a younger woman? Are there warning signs? Does he begin acting suspiciously?


----------



## Flying Crane

Ya know, I don't have any connection to this guy whatsoever, and I don't care spit about him or anything he's pushing.  If he's really cutting cucumbers off people's necks, that' sounds pretty stupid to me.

That being said, could someone please explain something to me?  I thought MT is a site that has a non-fraudbusting and courteous environment.  Why is this thread somehow exempt from that?  Why do we have a thread dedicated to the ridicule of this man?

Thanks.


----------



## Stuey

Flying Crane said:


> Ya know, I don't have any connection to this guy whatsoever, and I don't care spit about him or anything he's pushing. If he's really cutting cucumbers off people's necks, that' sounds pretty stupid to me.
> 
> That being said, could someone please explain something to me? I thought MT is a site that has a non-fraudbusting and courteous environment. Why is this thread somehow exempt from that? Why do we have a thread dedicated to the ridicule of this man?
> 
> Thanks.


 
Knoble thoughs, but the intention is lost. I havent been here long, but you can look on just about any subforum here and see a post about 'is this MA effective in the modern day street'. This just brings it all to the fore really. I was never taught to laugh at others, but in the vids n pics I have seen, I saw some stupid stuff, and there are people out there to take advantage of those that are gullible. It seems fitting that there should be some exposure, although it still feels too wrong to laugh because some poor suckers got pulled right in.


----------



## Cirdan

You can`t really fraudbust Soke Calkins.. I mean it couldn`t be any clearer if his sign said "Golden Wannabe Videogame Bad Guy Club".

He puts this stuff up himself, I just reserve my right to a good laugh.


----------



## MBuzzy

*Attention Users:*



> "'Horror Stories' are both the sad and the funny. Like the "Darwin Awards", you will both laugh and be shocked by some of these. Tales of training gone awry, and instructors gone bad."


The 'Horror Stories' section is reserved for tales such as this. The post currently does not violate fraudbusting rules. Please review the related rules here. Particularly sections: 1.10.3 and 4.16



> *1.10.3 No Individual Bashing / Fraud Busting. *
> 
> It is not our mission to out and expose frauds or decide who "sucks". Such discussions rarely lead anywhere other than to headaches, and lawsuits.
> 
> *4.16 Official Policy on Fraud Busting and Credential Verification.*
> 
> 
> *4.16.1 Fraud Busting*
> 
> Due to its nature, this forum encourages the asking and answering of questions. Many times one member will have questions and concerns about the history, skills, lineage, or paperwork of another member. In other cases, things may be stated on a webpage, flyer or article relating to a member that raises some questions. Sometimes, comments will have been made elsewhere and those issues carried over to MartialTalk.
> 
> MartialTalk and its staff encourage the polite and professional search for knowledge. Questions and concerns may be brought up, with the understanding that the other party is under no requirement to answer.
> 
> Most questions may be raised within the forums dedicated to a particular art or area of interest. For example, Kenpo Lineage questions in the Kenpo forum, are fine. Others of a more serious note, are to be limited to the The Great Debate forum.
> 
> Excessive Inquisitor-style" questioning is not allowed and will be subject to administrative action. If you have had to ask a question more than 3 times, you are most likely running the risk of excessive.
> 
> In addition, Hot Pursuit actions will not be tolerated. The Hot Pursuit is defined as asking the same or similar questions in multiple threads and / or forums.
> 
> Members who become obsessed, inquisitors or interrogators will be subject to administrative action. Members who are involved in excessive arguments that disrupt the forum, may be subject to administrative action due to the disruption of the normal operation of this forum
> 
> *4.16.4 Fraud Reports*
> MartialTalk has an existing fraud busting policy. It's intent is to avoid site disruptions, juvenile games, and mud fests. Members may report on verifiable cases of fraud and criminal behavior in the Horror Stories section. All content must comply to our existing policy rules.


 
Please keep the discussion to the safety and choice of training and demonstration methods.

Thank you
Craig Mills
MartialTalk Senior Moderator


----------



## Flying Crane

So, if I see someone on Youtube who I think is demonstrating some really stupid stuff, or if someone opens a school down the street from where I live and I think he sucks, I can post it here in Horror Stories and we can all laugh and point fingers and make fun? And that's OK, as long as I don't call him a fraud?

Can I still do that if the person is another member here on Martialtalk?


----------



## Bob Hubbard

This is decided on a Case by Case basis. In the case of Calkins, he was a member here who basically outted himself by his postings. His own photos showcase unsafe practices, and his videos show what they show. As long as the commentary is limited to a professional level (ie critiquing his art and practices) it should be acceptable.  Commenting on him personally is not. You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok, but don't comment on his appearance or weight.  

Preference is given to cases where you have had some direct or personal contact with the person.

If they are a member of MartialTalk, you can comment as long as it's professional, and understand that they are under no obligation to respond to you.


----------



## Bob Hubbard

*Mod Note:
Have removed several hotlinked images from thread. *


----------



## Ken Morgan

Bob Hubbard said:


> You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok,


 
It's much more then dangerous.


----------



## Flying Crane

Bob Hubbard said:


> This is decided on a Case by Case basis. In the case of Calkins, he was a member here who basically outted himself by his postings. His own photos showcase unsafe practices, and his videos show what they show. As long as the commentary is limited to a professional level (ie critiquing his art and practices) it should be acceptable. Commenting on him personally is not. You can call his sword work dangerous and be ok, but don't comment on his appearance or weight.
> 
> Preference is given to cases where you have had some direct or personal contact with the person.
> 
> If they are a member of MartialTalk, you can comment as long as it's professional, and understand that they are under no obligation to respond to you.


 
OK.  Well, in perusing this thread it seems to me that quite a lot of postings go well outside the realm of professional critique.  

What we've got here is sort of a running critique of the life and screwups of a man who is no longer here to even defend himself, well seasoned with ridicule, personal jibes and sarcasm.

Again, I'm not defending this guy.  But I just find it really weird, and outside the scope of what I've always understood Martialtalk to stand for.  

Hell, I'm always up for dishing some ridicule on people who suck or are stupid, or both.  I've got a list of people I'd like to let loose on, but I want to make sure I'm making fun of the RIGHT people, and not the WRONG people so I have the support of the masses behind me.

I dunno.  When I ask my sifu about someone, he always just says, "well, he's OK..."  That's sort of his polite codeword for saying "he sucks", but he won't say it in public, and he just leaves it at that.  I don't understand why we have an ongoing thread dedicated to this guy.

whatever.  I don't mean to spoil the fun for everyone, so feel free to ignore me.


----------



## jks9199

Tell you what, folks.  A discussion of what is and isn't fraudbusting is kind of topic here.  I'm going to start a thread in the *MartialTalk Site Support Forum* where we can maybe hash this out a little better without cluttering a thread.

Quick answer is that there is room to discuss people's qualifications, or lack thereof, so long as it's done in a polite way, and so long as the understanding is that the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and that MT members or staff aren't going to go out and conduct investigations into people's claims.  If anything reaches a point that investigation is necessary, it'll be turned over to the proper authorities.


----------



## Flying Crane

jks9199 said:


> Tell you what, folks. A discussion of what is and isn't fraudbusting is kind of topic here. I'm going to start a thread in the *MartialTalk Site Support Forum* where we can maybe hash this out a little better without cluttering a thread.
> 
> Quick answer is that there is room to discuss people's qualifications, or lack thereof, so long as it's done in a polite way, and so long as the understanding is that the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and that MT members or staff aren't going to go out and conduct investigations into people's claims. If anything reaches a point that investigation is necessary, it'll be turned over to the proper authorities.


 
Actually, now that I've looked more closely I don't think fraudbusting is the issue here.  

I think the issue is targeting someone for ongoing riducule, so we can all have a scapegoat at which to point and laugh.  The ridicule may be well deserved, but the guy isn't even around here anymore to provoke it nor defend against it. 

It may be technically within the rules of the site, but I think it's really sort of bad form and doesn't help anybody to look any better.

What is it?  Do we all feel better about our own shortcomings when we've got someone else to point at and say, "well at least I don't suck as much and I'm not as stupid as THAT guy"?  

It just all seems very sophomoric.  A sort of schoolyard sort of mean, that I would not expect from adults.


----------



## jks9199

Flying Crane said:


> Actually, now that I've looked more closely I don't think fraudbusting is the issue here.
> 
> I think the issue is targeting someone for ongoing riducule, so we can all have a scapegoat at which to point and laugh.  The ridicule may be well deserved, but the guy isn't even around here anymore to provoke it nor defend against it.
> 
> It may be technically within the rules of the site, but I think it's really sort of bad form and doesn't help anybody to look any better.
> 
> What is it?  Do we all feel better about our own shortcomings when we've got someone else to point at and say, "well at least I don't suck as much and I'm not as stupid as THAT guy"?
> 
> It just all seems very sophomoric.  A sort of schoolyard sort of mean, that I would not expect from adults.


I don't completely disagree, hence my very limited posting in this thread!  And that's the easy solution...  If you think it's in bad form or poor taste... don't participate!  But I do believe, as I understand the history of this guy, he rather brought it on himself... and continues to do so!


----------



## Flying Crane

jks9199 said:


> IBut I do believe, as I understand the history of this guy, he rather brought it on himself... and continues to do so!


 
I guess that would have me ask: why are the members of this site so interested in him?  He's no longer part of this community.  He may well be a buffoon, but why does it matter to the members of this community?

This question isn't directed at you personally.  It's just my thoughts on the situation.

Buffoons and loosers abound in the martial arts.  Like they all get syphoned off from every other dreg, and dumped on the doorstep of every dojo in town.  So why is this guy enough of a concern to keep a commentary going on his life?  I suppose because he was here, so people know him on somewhat of a personal level.  

But lot's of people like that have come and gone.  Why not start a thread on Monkey?  Remember him?  Annoying little bugger, but he finally went away and nobody cares.

It's not like I care one way or the other about this guy.  I just think that an ongoing riducule on a public forum like this is bad form.  We've all met people along the way who we trashtalk.  Like I said, loosers and martial arts go hand-in-hand.  But I think that kind of thing ought to be kept sort of private, amonst those you know and trust well.  I don't see a need to be putting it on the internet for the world to see.  It's low class.


----------



## teekin

Well Michael, the degree to which he takes himself as serious or tries to pass himself off as serious/skillful/a master is kinda like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The problem is he taking others along with him. He is going to wreck the Whole Damn Martial Experiance for way too many people. It will sour them so they think all MAists are like Soke Calkins and they will miss out on the whole big bright wonderful world of Trad MA and  MMA. Bruce doesn't give a good God Damn about anybody but Bruce and for that reason but more so the poor souls he catchs up in his psudo-dojo I have NO problem heaping scorn and riddicule on the little milk-sop. He wears a Gold belt, Gold for God's sake. . . . he invented his own belt . . . . . to symbolise his humility. And you don't think that's funny?:barf:

 Come on now, this guy needs to go meet Steve Scott :yoda:for a few years and learn the error of his ways.
lori


----------



## Flying Crane

Grendel308 said:


> Well Michael, the degree to which he takes himself as serious or tries to pass himself off as serious/skillful/a master is kinda like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The problem is he taking others along with him. He is going to wreck the Whole Damn Martial Experiance for way too many people. It will sour them so they think all MAists are like Soke Calkins and they will miss out on the whole big bright wonderful world of Trad MA and  MMA. Bruce doesn't give a good God Damn about anybody but Bruce and for that reason but more so the poor souls he catchs up in his psudo-dojo I have NO problem heaping scorn and riddicule on the little milk-sop. He wears a Gold belt, Gold for God's sake. . . . he invented his own belt . . . . . to symbolise his humility. And you don't think that's funny?:barf:
> 
> Come on now, this guy needs to go meet Steve Scott :yoda:for a few years and learn the error of his ways.
> lori



he's far far far from the only one doing this.  again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it.  Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?

Do you keep tabs on all the losers you went to high school with, and list all their failures on your Facebook page or something?  I left those bad memories in the past, and I don't care what those people are doing today.  Why do you continue to care about this guy?  Do you have a personal vendetta against him?


----------



## grydth

Flying Crane said:


> he's far far far from the only one doing this.  again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it.  Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?
> 
> Do you keep tabs on all the losers you went to high school with, and list all their failures on your Facebook page or something?  I left those bad memories in the past, and I don't care what those people are doing today.  Why do you continue to care about this guy?  Do you have a personal vendetta against him?



You've been back several times yourself now, taking some shots at us via some 'questions', plus some unflattering speculations which you are not qualified to make. One point is that our behavior is "low class" because el Grando Soke isn't here to defend himself.

Have you ever seen any of us back away from a contest with anyone who _is_ here? I've disagreed with entire threads before, so please save the musings about those who only criticize 'the right people'.

Now, the Soke's latest antic has been playing cutting games featuring weapons, food items and students. He cheerfully posts these atrocities on the Internet for profit. Tell me, what conceivable defense *could* there be for that type of behavior? The fact that he is not here is absolutely irrelevant, for the conduct is indefensible on its face.

Yeah, MA is overrun with frauds and fakers. As has been noted many times before, these charlatans often prosper greatly while true masters scrounge for rent money. So we finally get a buffoon who's comically inept and we have a few laughs...... I'm not sorry. Not at all.


----------



## teekin

_"Qui tacet consentiret" (Silence Implies Consent_ )  SirThomasMore

 and I most certainly  Do Not Consent. 

lori

but your point is understood and valid to boot. I *am* being small, mean and petty. It is  beneath me, but I will continue to call em as I see em. I am Damn! Damn! lucky to have run into the instuctors I did and very lucky Andrew puts up with me. I don't even want to think of the mess I'd be in if I had met a Soke Calkins before Drew.


----------



## Stuey

Flying Crane said:


> he's far far far from the only one doing this. again, he's not here to continue to provoke the ridicule among this community, nor to defend against it. Why you you feel you need to continue a running commentary on his life's accomplishments?quote]
> I think that we should all hear of these types of stories and our feelings about them aired, albeit in a more proffessional manner. There is nothing worse than the embarrassment of leaving a McDojo or a glorified video game club after you have already joined. And people do join and get suckered in. People should be made aware of these situations. If they then ignore the apparent danger and advice against it then these people will have themselves to blame for the situation they are in. It should be apparent to all, however, some still get caught up in it. They should be allowed the opportunity to see it for what it really is. (or at least what we percieve it to be)


----------



## Flying Crane

grydth said:


> You've been back several times yourself now, taking some shots at us via some 'questions', plus some unflattering speculations which you are not qualified to make. One point is that our behavior is "low class" because el Grando Soke isn't here to defend himself.


 
I'm not "taking shots" at you, but I am pointing out that the nature of this thread ought to be beneath you all.  And, I am commenting on behavior here conducted by people who are still here to provoke my comments, and respond to my comments as seems appropriate.  If you had left MT altogether, and I set up a thread dedicated to the continued discussion of how much of a loser you are (I don't feel that way about you, I'm just making an example), I think most people here would see it as lacking in class and unnecessary.

Leave the gradeschool playground nonsense back in gradeschool.


----------



## Flying Crane

Stuey said:


> I think that we should all hear of these types of stories and our feelings about them aired, albeit in a more proffessional manner. There is nothing worse than the embarrassment of leaving a McDojo or a glorified video game club after you have already joined. And people do join and get suckered in. People should be made aware of these situations. If they then ignore the apparent danger and advice against it then these people will have themselves to blame for the situation they are in. It should be apparent to all, however, some still get caught up in it. They should be allowed the opportunity to see it for what it really is. (or at least what we percieve it to be)


 
you want to save the world from the charlatans?  Good luck to you.  You can't even scratch the surface.  I know they do damage out there, but so do so many others in all lines of questionable business enterprise.  You can't stamp it out.  There are way way too many of them, Mr. Calkins hardly has the monopoly on it.

Maybe we should start a new thread, where we can all list all the losers we've ever come across in the Martial Arts.  We can just trashtalk everyone we want to, and maybe our efforts will shame them all into submission.  

I doubt it.


----------



## Stuey

Flying Crane said:


> you want to save the world from the charlatans? Good luck to you. You can't even scratch the surface. I know they do damage out there, but so do so many others in all lines of questionable business enterprise. You can't stamp it out. There are way way too many of them, Mr. Calkins hardly has the monopoly on it.
> 
> Maybe we should start a new thread, where we can all list all the losers we've ever come across in the Martial Arts. We can just trashtalk everyone we want to, and maybe our efforts will shame them all into submission.
> 
> I doubt it.


 As you state, stamping it out is impossible. People are free to make up their own mind, and will often go against what others think. I dont want to ridicule anyone, I just want the opportunity to know who ridicules themselves and be given the opportunity not to put myself in the same box. I can see the attitude of which you speak in others replies and it is not something I endorse. I think that is wrong. On the other hand, All of the charlatans out there should be pointed out. Named and shamed. Is silence not consent as someone else said? In this case the guy is clearly worthy of ridicule, but he does that all by himself. He doesnt need my help. But it is good to know what others think is silly or wrong or whatever. In the end, if I get caught up in all that despite people telling me they think it is wrong then I am responsible for what becomes. If I like what he teaches I will go ahead and do it anyways. But people who dont know the first thing about anything will just get ripped off and put themselves in danger. Shouldnt these people be given the opportunity to know he is a charlatan? I guss it then comes back down to some people treating MA's like religion, i.e. mine is the one and only, all others are wrong and inferior, etc. Thats when one has to use ones own judgment. Peace bro


----------



## Flying Crane

good luck to ya with it.

i think I've made my position clear here, and I won't be the killjoy in this thread anymore.  People wanna have someone to point fingers at and laugh, well, be my guest.  

Someday people might point fingers and laugh at them too.  As you sow, so you shall reap.

have fun, schoolchildren.


----------



## grydth

Flying Crane said:


> I'm not "taking shots" at you, but I am pointing out that the nature of this thread ought to be beneath you all.  And, I am commenting on behavior here conducted by people who are still here to provoke my comments, and respond to my comments as seems appropriate.  If you had left MT altogether, and I set up a thread dedicated to the continued discussion of how much of a loser you are (I don't feel that way about you, I'm just making an example), I think most people here would see it as lacking in class and unnecessary.
> 
> Leave the gradeschool playground nonsense back in gradeschool.



For what it's worth, I find you a highly respectable MT member as well. So let's just make this an 'agree to disagree' among gentlemen.

I did have a thread started about me on a Forum I wasn't on once, and it brought me gales of laughter for some time.... long story which isn't relevant on its facts here.

Anyway, if there were any conceivable excuse or defense for actions the Soke has engaged in with the sword, I might tend to agree with you. But he is so far over the line that, even were he present, there is no defense imaginable which could be presented. Also, if he is using the Internet to promote these disgusting acts and profit therefrom, I do not feel it inappropriate to use the Internet to give them the derision that they merit.


----------



## celtic_crippler

You're both right. 

Negative begets negative...so we should be careful in our actions (written or otherwise.) 

However, there are exceptions to everything...and I think this is one. 

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this fellow is a danger to the public? It's almost criminal NOT to say something about it, perhaps in hopes that someone may do their homework on the guy and find this thread and avoid getting an appendage cut off! 

It's one thing to debate the strengths and weaknesses of different styles, organizations, or schools.... it's completely another to remain silent when you recognize an obvious fake is endangering the lives of those too ingnorant to know better.

Beyond the obvious dangers, he's instilling false confidence in his students and when the day comes that they may have to rely on the ...._skills_.... he has _taught_ them... it will be a very rude awakening for the student. I just hope they survive the encounter in good enough shape to learn from it. 

If his desire to teach is so great, then he should take the time to learn.


----------



## teekin

celtic_crippler said:


> You're both right.
> 
> Negative begets negative...so we should be careful in our actions (written or otherwise.)
> 
> However, there are exceptions to everything...and I think this is one.
> 
> Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this fellow is a danger to the public? It's almost criminal NOT to say something about it, perhaps in hopes that someone may do their homework on the guy and find this thread and avoid getting an appendage cut off!
> 
> It's one thing to debate the strengths and weaknesses of different styles, organizations, or schools.... *it's completely another to remain silent when you recognize an obvious fake is endangering the lives of those too ingnorant to know better.*
> 
> Beyond the obvious dangers, *he's instilling false confidence in his students and when the day comes that they may have to rely on the ....skills.... he has taught them... it will be a very rude awakening for the student.* I just hope they survive the encounter in good enough shape to learn from it.
> 
> If his desire to teach is so great, then he should take the time to learn.


 
There it is. +1 Do I think I'm going to make a difference, him being one man among thousands and my voice one among millions? YES! Damn right I do. 
lori


----------



## Cryozombie

Flying Crane said:


> I guess that would have me ask: why are the members of this site so interested in him? He's no longer part of this community. He may well be a buffoon, but why does it matter to the members of this community?


 
Actually, FWIW, if memory serves me correctly, this thread was started in the first place because this "Ninja Grandmaster", long after leaving MT behind, started up a blog on his page about what meanies everyone on the interwebs were, specifically here at martialtalk, because we didnt bow and scrape to his purchased Mastership and Self Proclaimed Soke title. 

Personally, if you are (not you, a person) gonna whine and cry and do somthing like that, you have to expect to take a few shots to the virtual face, as far as Im concerned.


----------



## Flying Crane

Cryozombie said:


> Actually, FWIW, if memory serves me correctly, this thread was started in the first place because this "Ninja Grandmaster", long after leaving MT behind, started up a blog on his page about what meanies everyone on the interwebs were, specifically here at martialtalk, because we didnt bow and scrape to his purchased Mastership and Self Proclaimed Soke title.
> 
> Personally, if you are (not you, a person) gonna whine and cry and do somthing like that, you have to expect to take a few shots to the virtual face, as far as Im concerned.


 

OK, well there's a little perspective and more to the story. Thanks for that.

How many people who jumped on the bandwagon here were even aware of this? I certainly wasn't. If it was discussed in the early posts, I missed it or don't remember it. I'll go back and review.

edit:  OK, I went back and saw the link.  I dont' think I had actually read thru that before, and he does specifically mention Martialtalk, among others.

Seems he did bring this onto himself.  I can understand the responses to it here.

unless he has an ongoing commentary on his site tho, maybe it's time to move on here as well.  Just suggesting...


----------



## Cirdan

In case any "low class schoolchilderen" are interested the good Soke`s ranks are listed here:

http://www.ziggs.com/Prod_Content/resumes/94957__Martial Arts Resume.doc

His claims to greatness grows daily. I think we should all be reminded of what pride can do to us. I won`t feel guilty about having a good laugh either.


----------



## grydth

What's funny to some of us isn't always going to be so for others.... and there does need to be some mutual understanding of that on *both sides*.

As much fun as this klown Soke is, and as _deserving _he is of condemnation for his antics and Internet postings, it just isn't worth it if it causes infighting here. I'm damned if I'm going to get into more fights with reputable MAists here over this jerk.... so I'm heading to other threads.


----------



## teekin

Valid Point.:mst:
lm


----------

