# When choosing tournaments.......



## Goldendragon7 (Dec 14, 2003)

What type of tournaments do you like to participate in as a Kenpo stylist?

Kenpo only
Open Tournaments
Tae Kwon Do
Shotokan
Kung Fu
Others


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## Rob Broad (Dec 14, 2003)

I prefer open tournaments.  I like to see how I fair against different styles.


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## jfarnsworth (Dec 14, 2003)

Open tournaments.

I've done so many different types that I think open tournaments are the best kinds.


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## molson (Dec 14, 2003)

Ive only been to open and some tae kwon do and tang soo do tournaments. would be interesting to go to an all kenpo tourny.


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## RCastillo (Dec 14, 2003)

Open tourneys are not much fun in that there are very few people down here who know, or undertsand what Kenpo is.

They act like we're aliens from another country, or something.


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## Blindside (Dec 15, 2003)

I prefer open tournaments.

Look I like kenpo, alot, but I can remember judging a intermediate division at an all Kenpo tournament and thinking "oh good, Long 2..... again."  

I like seeing other styles do forms, and I like fighting against different styles.  

Lamont


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## Ceicei (Dec 15, 2003)

I like open tournaments.  I've done well with them.  It is fun to see what other styles are there.  I like to watch and learn what moves emphasized by other styles.

However, sometimes, doing forms can be tough because some kenpo forms are not as flashy as the forms from some other styles.  I feel I have a better chance when one of the judges happen to be in Kenpo also.

I enjoy kumite.  Some people try to do their simple point sparring; I find I have success when I incorporate quick short techs that eventually score me a point because my opponent wasn't expecting my counter-attacks.

- Ceicei


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## Kenpomachine (Dec 16, 2003)

If going to freestyle or sparring, I'd rather go to an open tourney. If it's self defense techniques or forms, kenpo only. And by that, I mean kenpo, any kenpo. Thus, you can learn new things that applies well to what you already now, and get some ideas for your own work.


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## Brother John (Jan 5, 2004)

OPEN!
More variety.
Better test of your fighting skills I think.
Besides, in Kansas... you go to what's open.
Not that much choice.
  
Your Bro.
John


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jan 5, 2004)

open


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## Rick Wade (Jan 6, 2004)

I have found out that the type of tournament is very important.  This is why.  Unless you enter an open tournament where the judges are from all types of different forms of karate; it is hard to get a fair shake in anything other than your style of Martial Arts.  The judges are going to be looking for katas and stances that they are familiar with, thus putting you at a disadvantage before you ever introduce yourself.

Thanks for listening to be B*((*%.  I am not angry or anything, just because I pulled off one of the best Form 4s that I had ever done in a Hawaii tournament and didn't even place.  The Only Judge that gave me good marks was Proffesor Emperado.  He recognized that it was one of Mr. Parkers forms.

:soapbox: 

OK I am off the box.
Thanks


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## KenpoTess (Jan 6, 2004)

Not much worse than having other system judges sit on the panel when  they have no clue as to what you're performing Kenpo-wise..  when a TKD judge tells a student.. "You need to Hiss during your form"  arghhhhhhhhh...


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## Old Fat Kenpoka (Jan 6, 2004)

Of course, you are going to lose if you do a Parker form in an open forms division or JKO division.  Many tournaments (at least in California) have a separate Kenpo/Kajukenbo forms division.  You might still see a lot of Long 4, but you'll also see Tiger & Crane and some Kajukenbo forms.  The judges will have their preferences, but EPAK forms will be familiar and can be fairly judged.  

Open tournament Kumite is often a little rougher than invitational torunament sparring.  That has a downside if you are unprepared.  It has an upside if you really want to test and improve your fighting.  

The most important thing is the promoter and how they run the tournament.   Are the rules clear?  Are people following the rules?  Are the judges impartial?


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## jeffkyle (Jan 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by KenpoTess _
> *Not much worse than having other system judges sit on the panel when  they have no clue as to what you're performing Kenpo-wise..  when a TKD judge tells a student.. "You need to Hiss during your form"  arghhhhhhhhh... *



I double that ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## Nightingale (Jan 8, 2004)

I prefer open tournaments.  I like seeing all the different styles.


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## INDYFIGHTER (Mar 12, 2004)

I recently did a PKC tournament and felt as if I may have been judged a little unfairly but do you think if I keep going and become a more familar face they will start scoring me better or am I waisting my money?



			
				Ceicei said:
			
		

> I like open tournaments. I've done well with them. It is fun to see what other styles are there. I like to watch and learn what moves emphasized by other styles.
> 
> However, sometimes, doing forms can be tough because some kenpo forms are not as flashy as the forms from some other styles. I feel I have a better chance when one of the judges happen to be in Kenpo also.
> 
> ...


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## Goldendragon7 (Mar 12, 2004)

INDYFIGHTER said:
			
		

> I recently did a PKC tournament and felt as if I may have been judged a little unfairly but do you think if I keep going and become a more familar face they will start scoring me better or am I waisting my money?




Gaining experience is never a waste of money.  However, you must understand that tournaments are a game, and as such it is a very...VERY "subjective" event.   You must first gain skill to be able to compete i.e., have a strong set of basics, learn the rules, know what different judges look for, prepare and be able to feel comfortable in front of crowds, understand that not always the best man/woman wins... on any given day!   In front of one set of judges your form or sparring match would have your opponent the winner.... on another day or in another state with a completely different set of judges.... you may be the winner.   The goal is to be a consistent winner no matter where you go.  That is no easy task.  First it takes experience... which is what you are gaining now.  So keep at it until you have logged 20 or 30 tournaments, then you will know the answer to your own question.

 :asian:


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Mar 14, 2004)

I stopped going to tournaments.  What's the point? (get it? point?  I made a joke there..., you know, point?).


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## RCastillo (Mar 27, 2004)

Not only that, I'll bet the Goldendragons tourneys  are rigged! :argue:


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## Gary Crawford (May 8, 2004)

I prefere open,but as many teakwondo tournaments I have couched at,I would never enter an open TDK tournament,the rules don't work for other styles.


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## TigerWoman (May 8, 2004)

Hi, I know this was for kenpo stylists but it was interesting! I am a TKD judge and we don't hiss!  But we do yell from our diaphragm upon certain punches or strikes.  But I have found karate stylists yell hiyah AND hiss much more!  So our master made us start to do it at every strike now - hard to get used to!
(TKD viewpoint) I like open matches too.  We had kung fu stylists last time - hard to judge - but the form was beautiful to watch.  We judge on power, balance difficulty etc. more than on knowing the specific moves. The kung fu guy won.


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## Rob Broad (Jul 15, 2004)

I had volunteered to referree at an up coming open tournament put on by a TKD club where my mother lives 8 hours away, the host was very pleased to hear I was going to travel to help out at teh event.  About a week after I talked to him on teh phone I recieved my referees package that stated that I had to wear a white uniform, or a business suit to be a judge atthe event.  I gave him a call, and he said that is the Korean way, and if I wanted to be there I had follow his rules or I could by a ticket and watch from the stands and where whatever I wanted.

Needless to say I am a little irked.  Years ago when he first started hosting tournaments I attend everyone of them and brought as many students as I could each year.  Now that I live 8 hours away and no longer have a school in that city he is being a real jerk.  Even though he is hosting an open tournament the rukes are TKD rules (that I can handle) every competitor must wear a white uniform ( big smelly pile of crap) and he want all competitors to be able to present in Korean.  I thnk the guy has losthis mind, and he has lost me as a ref, and lost a lot fo good competitors because of his rules this year.


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## OC Kid (Jul 16, 2004)

I used to be a tournament fighting fool. In the 80's we would drive and fight in 3-4 tournaments a weekend. Seriously , The oldies here will remember that Im sure. 
Ive trained at Mr. Bob Whites school, Mr. Dick Willets school under Mr. Todd McEhenney,People such as  Terry Crook, John "Big T" Turnage, The bird "Chicken Gabriel", Ray Leal , Steve Rice , Chris Romero, Jim McClure, Ken Firestone, Jim Muse, Bruce Leamer and others (go back and check some old mags from that period and you'll know what Im talking about.

But now I look back on it differently. I used to fight in just about every type of tourneys from JKA to EP Internationals. I would travel and have fought in every major tournament from Mexico into Vancouver B.C. What have I learned????

Competitors
The open tournaments players are not so much fighting based on style ie Kempo, TKD ect. They are based more on training specifically for tournaments. It doesnt matter what school or style your from as you would go to the best fighting school around and train with the other tournament players. Then at the schools the competition there is fearcely competitive. Fights breaking out during practice point matches, egos flaring unbelieveable. 
Now its all about sponsor ship and sponsored teams, its hard for a individual competitor to compete. 

Open tourneys the players from sponsored teams have a great advantage. they will get most of the opints called because they are very well known by the judges and the sponsors kick alot of money to promoters ect.

TKD tourney I found the Korean judges to be biased in their point calling. If your not TKD you cant buya point. I actually walked out of ring from being a side judge once because the center judge (korean and the only one who can call points in a TKD tourney) refused to acknowledge my point calling.

JKA pretty much the same way except substitue kick for reverse punch 

The rules have changed to where they call 3 point head shots (kicks to head) 2 poiints kicks above the waist they say groin kicks are allowed but they dont called them. Punches and strikes 1 point. but they all different and the rules are applied based on the judges experiance.

My boy wants to go to one this week end. Mr. Dave Brock (well known EPAK Kempo instructor and tourney player( B/B HOF and 5 time International champ) has told me my son should clean up his division. 

Mr.Brocks school is where Jack Felton #1 under 18 B/B tourney fighter in the country trains ( Hes sponsored also) and Mr.Brock has another youngin who is #3 in Green belt on the circuit 8 y.o. 
So Mr.Brock should know my boys ability. But do I want to get him caught up in that mess.???? 
He wants to go but  I dont know Im still thinking about it.  
(Im my boys instructor and we train alone in my back yard but occasionally go to Daves (Mr. Brock) school for him to get some sparring practice). So Im must be doing ok. But he is a great athlete and Im proud of him. Ive taught him the warrior spirit from day one.  At first he didnt really trust the old man but after 2 jr. cholos(spanish slang for gang bangers) were messing with him and he took one out and the other one ran away, not only do they notmess with him but He trust the old man..:>)


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## parkerkarate (Oct 13, 2004)

I had prefered open tournaments until ths last one I went to a few months ago. I went to do Long form 5 and I was stuck in the Creative devision. So there were people flying all over the place, of course I got last place with a 9.7 because I do not do any jumps. All the upper balck belts know what I am talking about because there is no jumping in any of our forms unless you are talking about Staff Set.


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## Blindside (Oct 13, 2004)

It sounds like you were in the wrong division, is that the fault of it being an open tournament, the promoter, the person at the desk who sorted the cards, or you?

Lamont


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## Nightingale (Oct 13, 2004)

sounds like you should've entered regular forms/kata.  Creative/showmanship is almost always fancy stuff to music.


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## 8253 (Oct 14, 2004)

If i were to attend a tournament, i believe that i would prefer a Kenpo only tournament.  I have been to several open tournaments but i find it hard to spar for points against a different style.  If it were full contact an open would be ok, but i dont do to good when it comes to point sparing.


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## Kenpobuff (Jan 18, 2005)

I like to attend Open tournaments since you have the opportunity to put Kenpo up against other styles in the Karate community. Obviously there is bias among the judges but that comes with the nature of the game. However, if your forms or fighting is solid it shows to anyone watching and will be judged accordingly.


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