# People Dissing Ninjutsu



## NinjaBurr (Jun 5, 2007)

I have been reading posts about Ninjutsu on the forums here and some on other sites.  Most of the people say it's a good martial art and some say it's a stupid Martial Art and then there are some that say it's not even an art at all.

Now I don't know too much about Bujikan Ninjutsu(If that is how you spell it) and I know a little on To-Shin Do, but to say it's not an art kind of makes no sense. For one usually Martial Arts is for self-defense or for sport, as far as I can tell To-Shin Do and Bujikan are for self-defense and so far the training that I have done has been to good use for me and my friends sparring and practising and would be good for combat against the streets.

I think that people who diss it and say it's not an art just don't like Ninjutsu so they just find ways to tear it apart and maybe it's not an art, but I believe it is if it suits my needs for self-defense and a way of life.


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## kaizasosei (Jun 5, 2007)

actually what educated people usually mean by ninjutsu could be anything from a whole bunch of diverse arts.


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## MA-Caver (Jun 5, 2007)

Far as I'm concerned there are two TYPES of Ninjutsu folks out there. The first type are the ones that give it a bad name. The ones that spend hundreds of dollars on full fledge (and official... lets not forget that) Ninja outfits and the swords and the stars and all the neato toys that go with the atypical Hollywoodized Ninja. I've a friend who's done that... got suckered in by some guy... excuse me instructor. Within four to six months he was a black belt but he never could disappear right in front of my eyes... said it was a secret  

The other type are the serious Ninjutsu folks and you can find the real ones here on MT (IMO)... they'll tell you if this or that teacher is bogus and they'll tell you that anything remotely similar to the Hollywoodized version isn't their art. 

It's a legitimate art form but hard to find legitimate teachers... but they're out there. 

:asian:


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## Hawke (Jun 5, 2007)

I have only a limited experience with two types of Ninjutsu, one of them being Bujinkan.  The guys I played with are fun and courteous.  I also know people that left the art for their own reasons.  Others going to Genbukan and Jinekan.  

For me the instructor is more important than the style.  

A cool trick I learned from Ninjutsu was to close one eye when a bright light source is near by to recover my night vision faster.


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## jks9199 (Jun 5, 2007)

NinjaBurr said:


> I have been reading posts about Ninjutsu on the forums here and some on other sites.  Most of the people say it's a good martial art and some say it's a stupid Martial Art and then there are some that say it's not even an art at all.
> 
> Now I don't know too much about Bujikan Ninjutsu(If that is how you spell it) and I know a little on To-Shin Do, but to say it's not an art kind of makes no sense. For one usually Martial Arts is for self-defense or for sport, as far as I can tell To-Shin Do and Bujikan are for self-defense and so far the training that I have done has been to good use for me and my friends sparring and practising and would be good for combat against the streets.
> 
> I think that people who diss it and say it's not an art just don't like Ninjutsu so they just find ways to tear it apart and maybe it's not an art, but I believe it is if it suits my needs for self-defense and a way of life.


There are a lot of people out there who's conduct causes problems for the relatively few legitimate schools of the martial arts that either include or are derived from the ninjutsu tradition in Japan.  They misappropriate the name for their own twisted mix of martial arts and esoteric garbage, or they simply are out for money...  (Ashida Kim is a glaring example.)

It's simply quite easy to grab onto the fad of the moment; that's why so many Tae Kwon Do schools have "KARATE" signs.  But it's even easier with ninjutsu; after all, it's a "secretive style so the master stays hidden!"


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## Tez3 (Jun 6, 2007)

My first and only encounter with Ninjutsu was at a seminar, they sort of stuck out from the rest of us as they were wearing home made uniforms and home made rope sandals.
I did do a session with them and I'l say first they were lovely people who very much believed in what they were doing. But oh dear the techniques they were teaching were awful. They warned us first they were full contact whuch we said fine were were too, then came the techniques. Imagine a very long left front stance ( junzuki) then put left arm out with hand open palm facing you. this was they said to stop your enemy seeing you punch with the other hand. They kept saying things like if they were attacked they'd uncoil the piece of wire they carried and stab the attacker in the femoral artery from which they'd bleed to death or they'd dig a hole from which to leap out of.
As I said they were really nice people and we got no sense they were trying to rip people off. They were actually more like a re-enactment society. No we didn't laugh at them or try to correct them that would have seemed awfully rude but we did rather worry about them.


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## NinjaBurr (Jun 6, 2007)

My teacher doesn't suck me in to buying stuff, alls I bought so far was the Gi, if I want to buy other things, then I can, but I'm not suckered into buying it, and what he is teaching seems legitimate, but I guess it's what I believe to a point.

Thanks everyone for your opinon, it has helped.


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## SKB (Jun 6, 2007)

A lot of people jumped on the 'ninja boom' train during the 1980's. All of a sudden EVERYONE knew the secret art of the ninja!!!! So folks lumped all the idiots who came out of the wood work into one big group!!! Can't tell you how many times I talked to people or trained with them and realized they were doing karate or kung fu or anything but real taijitsu!!! That was one way I knew my instructors, who I train with now, were real. They did not show me something and just call it ninjitsu. And like any fad people talk bad about the fad when it has faded. It use to be cool to carry a boom box with you every where!!!! Judo, karate, kickboxing, kung fu and a host of others have all been the "in" thing at some point and some people think MMA is the answer to all questions now.


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## NinjaBurr (Jun 7, 2007)

You do have a point.  So basically MMA will eventually die down and they will think Wushu will be back into the fad again, or another art.  As soon as something else comes out that seems better, like Tony Jaa with Muay Thai, so many of my friends said they wanted to learn it because it looked cool.  I basically told them that it would take years before they'd even come close to mastering what Tony does at all and it's not something you just go "hey I can do it".

But as fads come and go, my friends gave up on it a week later, haha.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 8, 2007)

Since, basically all the styles and systems use the same stances, strikes, and kicks, everyone is doing the same thing ultimately. All this "legit" stuff is crap. No one's way of doing these things is superior. Everyone and all styles get it done just fine.


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## SKB (Jun 8, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> Since, basically all the styles and systems use the same stances, strikes, and kicks, everyone is doing the same thing ultimately. All this "legit" stuff is crap. No one's way of doing these things is superior. Everyone and all styles get it done just fine.


 
I think your answer depends on what you are looking for. Diffrent styles have an empahsis on diffrent things. I learned quickly the high flying kicks I learned in TKD were great for sparring but in a real fight I ended up on my back more then I wanted to when the kick went wrong or the other guy did not go down like he was supposed to.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 9, 2007)

Of course it does. What is emphasized is what makes a "style", similar to all of the master painters of the past. However, the M.A.'s and they are similar. Just as their pictures differ greatly, the same canvas', brushes, paint type, colors, and subject matter were the same. For us, the same thing. I have seen Ninjutsu use flying techniques, such as what you used for an example. (and successfully so) Real ninjitsu doesn't regard any technique or tool as dishonorable. As I said, we all: Chinese, Japanese, Okinawan, American, etc..styles have the same materials. Just as in the master painters artwork, none have the "true", or "legit" ways. Each style is its own masterpiece.

As a side note, I've never liked jumping kicks, and would not use one for real. However, I know those who have done so, and successfully-many times. Just like all of your techniques, it takes correct timing to land successfully. If you honestly thought back to the situations of failure, I bet you thought of a way of making them work in hindsight. If you worked on them more, in terms of timing them right, you could be succesful too, if that was your desire. I would recommend keeping it simple tough, for real.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 9, 2007)

Thinking about this in all honesty, "dissing" aint nothing new. (unfrotunately) Everyone's dad can beat up everyone else's dad, as we all know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For the art's perspective it's about making them work for you, not you working (adherring to a way as the gospel) for them. We get "dissed" enough by the non-Martial Art world as it is. This upsets us all. We shouldn't then dispatch those sentiments to each other. We are all in this together, no matter what style or system we follow. Keep up the respect and humility that we preacd in our training.


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## Carol (Jun 9, 2007)

Several months back someone that I know approached me and asked me very seriously about training in ninjutsu.  He was looking for something particular in a school, I tried searching for it and Google returned pages and pages of dreck that had nothing to do with serious training. 

Perhaps one of the reasons is that so much of the "ninja" name is attached to activities that are really just a cartoon of the arts.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 9, 2007)

Google is a great thing and yet a bad thing at the same time as it helps propogate anything and everything. Unfortunately, Ninjutsu is only known to the masses here (Google's info sources) from the '80's flicks and culture. The art has achieved cartoon status as the TMA's have achieved "soccer mom status". They've all become a punchline. As I said the public looks at us all as a joke, or a place to send their kids after school to keep them out of their parent's hair a little while longer.


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## Bigshadow (Jun 9, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> Since, basically all the styles and systems use the same stances, strikes, and kicks, everyone is doing the same thing ultimately.



In principle I think you are right.  However in my opinion, it is the tactics that make all the difference in the world.  For instance, the tactics employed by empty hand arts don't necessarily work very well against weapons.  Ironically though, weapons based arts tend to lend themselves quite well in empty handed situations.  Just my opinion though.  Then there are the tactics for sports.


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## Hand Sword (Jun 9, 2007)

Bigshadow said:


> In principle I think you are right. However in my opinion, it is the tactics that make all the difference in the world. For instance, the tactics employed by empty hand arts don't necessarily work very well against weapons. Ironically though, weapons based arts tend to lend themselves quite well in empty handed situations. Just my opinion though. Then there are the tactics for sports.


 

More of the pointless "emphasis" argument again. These are the little things that cause all of the pointless bickering in our world. Weapon arts have empty hand methods, and empty hand styles have weapons too. When each employs the same focus : weapon to weapon or empty hand to empty hand, it's the same movements of the bodies for all styles. Of course empty hands is at a disadvantage against a weapon holder whether they are trained or not. However, that really is an apples and oranges comparison. 


The truth is we are all martial artists. We are all doing the same things in the big picture. Yes! there are differences. I NEVER said that there wasn't. Nor, did I ever argue against it. I'm trying to address the pointless arguing over the "legit", "our way is the way", "our dad is the toughest" etc.. that keeps going on.

I've spoken enough on this. If all wish to keep focussing on the small differences just to use them for the explicit purposes of arguing they "make them better" or "more effective" feel free.

I hope in the end we could all see that we are more similar than different.


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## Bigshadow (Jun 9, 2007)

Hand Sword said:


> I hope in the end we could all see that we are more similar than different.



Absolutely!


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## SKB (Jun 9, 2007)

All arts have their merit. I think the question comes down more to how the information is past on and the level of knowledge the person passing the information has.


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## newtothe dark (Aug 16, 2007)

For a quick answer go to church. No matter which one all the others are a cult or are wrong. It pays better to have the most people. It is a simple answer in what works for you is the right one for you.


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## KogaTengu (Sep 20, 2007)

newtothe dark said:


> For a quick answer go to church. No matter which one all the others are a cult or are wrong. It pays better to have the most people. It is a simple answer in what works for you is the right one for you.


 
I agree 100%!


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## HeisaaReborn (Mar 16, 2009)

Carol Kaur said:


> Several months back someone that I know approached me and asked me very seriously about training in ninjutsu. He was looking for something particular in a school, I tried searching for it and Google returned pages and pages of dreck that had nothing to do with serious training.
> 
> Perhaps one of the reasons is that so much of the "ninja" name is attached to activities that are really just a cartoon of the arts.


 
You may wish to try doing a search of "budo arts" under google and you will probably find what your friend is looking for. Ninjutsu just like the Samurai were outlawed in Japan. However, practicioners started teaching both in secret and under other names. This is how some of the worldwide organizations we know were born and why other practicioners chose to stay in the dark. 

Budo,


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## phatbway (Mar 16, 2009)

newtothe dark said:


> For a quick answer go to church. No matter which one all the others are a cult or are wrong. It pays better to have the most people. _*It is a simple answer in what works for you is the right one for you*_.


 

Man, I could not have said it any better!


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## Raynac (Mar 16, 2009)

hmmmm I agree with all the points about  how we are all martial artists and how we are all essentually doing the same thing but with different brush strokes.

but the word legit is around for a reason, its not there to put down another art as you were implying but rather to show fraudulance. 

lets say you have two diamonds, one real and ones made of glass. they both ultimatly serve the the same purpose of looking beatiful, but one is legitamate and the other one is not, its a matter of getting what you paid for.

its fine to say that someone whos learning another art that the instructor happened to label "ninjutsu" is still learning self defence, but they ARE NOT recieving what they though they were paying for which was ninjutsu.

the word legit can also be used to point our just plain scam artists who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.


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