# Training Under Yip Man?



## Marnetmar (Feb 1, 2016)

Do we actually have any solid, in-depth info on what Yip Man's school was actually like other than the oft-repeated "The old guy usually sat and watched" narrative?


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## Transk53 (Feb 1, 2016)

Don't think there is too much. Mind you I only really just Googled. The info in a Bruce Lee chronicle I guess it must be, had the usual picture reprints and the story. Doesn't one of the Ip brothers have a auto biog?


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## Marnetmar (Feb 1, 2016)

I think Ip Ching did one with Ron Heimberger, but I try to avoid anything with that Heimberger's name on it because he was shady as hell.


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## Danny T (Feb 1, 2016)

My understanding is Ip's children did very little training with their father. Their real training came from other instructors.


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## Transk53 (Feb 1, 2016)

Danny T said:


> My understanding is Ip's children did very little training with their father. Their real training came from other instructors.



That is interesting. Yes the films were what they were, but no mention of father to son teaching. May have to get that biog, but will look into Heimberger.


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## KPM (Feb 1, 2016)

The Ip Ching/Heimberger book is not bad.  I've also heard that the sons learned more from others than they did their father.  But Leung Ting's collection of photos definitely show Ip Ching present when LT was receiving lessons from Ip Man.  So there is no denying that they did actually learn from their father.


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## Transk53 (Feb 1, 2016)

KPM said:


> The Ip Ching/Heimberger book is not bad.  I've also heard that the sons learned more from others than they did their father.  But Leung Ting's collection of photos definitely show Ip Ching present when LT was receiving lessons from Ip Man.  So there is no denying that they did actually learn from their father.



Makes sense, even if it was perhipral most of the time perhaps.


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## Danny T (Feb 1, 2016)

KPM said:


> The Ip Ching/Heimberger book is not bad.  I've also heard that the sons learned more from others than they did their father.  But Leung Ting's collection of photos definitely show Ip Ching present when LT was receiving lessons from Ip Man.  So there is no denying that they did actually learn from their father.


Hmm.
I have a teenager who has been training with me for the past two years doing privates twice a week. His father or his mother has been present for every session. Does that mean they have been training and learning from me during that time?  
My two sons were present when I was training and instructing, does that mean they were learn from me. A little; yes but to no great degree or level of skill.
As they aged they trained with someone else and as teenagers I began teaching them. But prior to that they didn't learn the martial arts from me.

I'm quite certain Ip's sons learned some things from their father just not convinced it was to any real depth of knowledge or skill.

I also owned and ran an automotive and diesel repair business for 17 years. My sons were present in the shop though out the years and learned a lot about basic maintenance but I wouldn't bring my vehicle to them for any technical repairs.


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## wckf92 (Feb 1, 2016)

Danny T said:


> I'm quite certain Ip's sons learned some things from their father just not convinced it was to any real depth of knowledge or skill.



I've heard the same thing. Not much from Dad...mostly from others...and that it was due to the sons not being that interested (at first) in learning kung fu...too busy chasing the ladies, etc.


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## KPM (Feb 1, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> I've heard the same thing. Not much from Dad...mostly from others...and that it was due to the sons not being that interested (at first) in learning kung fu...too busy chasing the ladies, etc.



That may be true.  But there is no denying that they have both made a career of Wing Chun.  So they obviously got serious at some point.  Its hard for me to believe that they wouldn't have spent quality time with their father before he died.  Maybe someone else "opened their hands" and gave them their foundation.  But I tend to believe that Ip Man "finished them" and checked their skills.  And besides, you know egos nowadays!  You'd think someone would be speaking up and saying "It was I that really taught the Ip brothers!"  

Edit...it occurs to me that that person or persons may have died long ago....before egos and marketing were as much of a factor as today.  So I may be wrong!


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## dudewingchun (Feb 1, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> I think Ip Ching did one with Ron Heimberger, but I try to avoid anything with that Heimberger's name on it because he was shady as hell.



My old teacher learnt from Heimberger but then he passed away and said he started learning with Ip ching , who he reckoned learned heaps from Ip man like special secrets and all that but he was also full of **** so I wouldnt take that as fact. Use to always mention Leung jans book and how Ip ching has it. But I thought those books were in the VT museum ?  does anyone have any info about those books at all now that I think about it ?

Btw why did you think Ron was shady ? because it seems that was quite true.


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## Vajramusti (Feb 1, 2016)

Transk53 said:


> Don't think there is too much. Mind you I only really just Googled. The info in a Bruce Lee chronicle I guess it must be, had the usual picture reprints and the story. Doesn't one of the Ip brothers have a auto biog?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 I dont speak for anyone and I dont repeat only one source.  But I am not a  johnny come lately on gathering information and cross checking and analysis of information.I state some brief  conclusions without debating.

1.Ip Man left Fatshan for Macau with a daughter in 1949. She  got married in Macau. There are some recent pictures of her
with some of IM folks

2. IM moved to  HK and began teaching in 1950. He did not teach for free.  There were two different levels of teaching. a. regular class
where some of his senior students helped. B. Private classes with selected generally well to do students who paid substantial tuition.
3 stages of teaching in HK. First stage-1950 to 1954-Leung Shun,TST. WSL, Ip Ching etc.Second stage 1950 to about 1960 where he systematized his teaching methods.3rd stage- he began to wind down his teaching and largely retired in 1962.Only about 4 students learned the BJD fom IM. After retirement he often referred people to HKM.  Hawkins Cheung apparently was one such referral.
IM had left his sons behind in Fatshan in 1949. They came to HK in 1962. IM has another son - father and that son were not close

4 HKM and WSL were students for over  3 years. Most others for much less time.

IM had a falling out with his students-over his mistress. he walked out of the school and went to live with NG Chan for a while. Ng Chan developed pretty good hands.

5 IM had a special relationship with HKM. There are lots of pictures of them together. IM often visited HKM's classes in Macao.
WSL's training with IM was spaced out because he was teaching in his own school. WSL began bjd before HFM but finished afterwards.

6. Many people received lessons from IM- only a handful were led from the beginning to the end.
HKM took IM over his shoulder to a hospital when IM was very ill. HKm visited with Ip man on the day of his death. When HKM returned
to Macao from HK. Then Ip Ching called HKM that day to tell him that his father had just died.


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## dudewingchun (Feb 1, 2016)

Vajramusti said:


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I dont speak for anyone and I dont repeat only one source.  But I am not a  johnny come lately on gathering information and cross checking and analysis of information.I state some brief  conclusions without debating.
> 
> 1.Ip Man left Fatshan for Macau with a daughter in 1949. She  got married in Macau. There are some recent pictures of her
> ...



I have also heard about that mistress or the Shanghai woman someone called her. Hope that son didn't have a hard life just because he was illegitimate. 

I have an Ip chun book which says that Ip left foshan because he got notified he was going to get arrested so he left without even going home to tell his wife or get his belongings.. but it never mentioned anything about taking a daughter to get married ? This is from an Ip chun book so I have no idea if its true or just another story that cant be verified.

I remember this really long forum about Ng chan and some guy was claiming he was the only one to get the real wing chun... you know that usual leung bik version story. Just repeating what I have read as a johnny come lately.


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## kakkattekoi (Mar 27, 2016)

From my understanding, ip man's son didn't start their training until late and on top of that they show no or little interests in Kung fu so most of their training were from other students of ip man.  
Just sharing


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## Marnetmar (Mar 28, 2016)

kakkattekoi said:


> From my understanding, ip man's son didn't start their training until late and on top of that they show no or little interests in Kung fu so most of their training were from other students of ip man.
> Just sharing



Nope. We're not gonna start this. No. Nein. Nada.


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## wtxs (Mar 29, 2016)

Marnetmar said:


> Nope. We're not gonna start this. No. Nein. Nada.



Awww come on man, I have stocked up plenty of beer and popcorn for long winded threads like those we been having.


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## kakkattekoi (Mar 29, 2016)

wtxs said:


> Awww come on man, I have stocked up plenty of beer and popcorn for long winded threads like those we been having.


I was going to look for that video made by Stephen chan with chow Tse chuen talking about it


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## Marnetmar (Mar 30, 2016)

Please don't.


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## dudewingchun (Mar 31, 2016)

kakkattekoi said:


> From my understanding, ip man's son didn't start their training until late and on top of that they show no or little interests in Kung fu so most of their training were from other students of ip man.
> Just sharing



My old Sifu reckoned Ip Ching  is the most advanced wing chun Sifu alive.


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## wckf92 (Mar 31, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> My old Sifu reckoned Ip Ching  is the most advanced wing chun Sifu alive.



Is he a student of Ip Ching?


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## dudewingchun (Mar 31, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> Is he a student of Ip Ching?



He said he was. I do not believe that Ip ching is that great though.


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## wckf92 (Mar 31, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> I do not believe that Ip ching is that great though.



I wholeheartedly agree with you


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## dudewingchun (Mar 31, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you



Iv always found it interesting that the 2 brothers wing chun is a bit different to each others, even the forms.


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## wckf92 (Mar 31, 2016)

dudewingchun said:


> Iv always found it interesting that the 2 brothers wing chun is a bit different to each others, even the forms.



I agree. But I reckon that stipulation could also apply to everyone else(?). I mean, each Sifu, branch, etc adds/deletes/modifies what they know...or at least that is what I've heard.
Regardless, the Ip sons are far from being great. Which, is no big deal...but I have always thought that they, and those around them, have worked hard to manage public perception since they are the sons on Yip Man.
Just my opinion though...


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## dudewingchun (Mar 31, 2016)

wckf92 said:


> I agree. But I reckon that stipulation could also apply to everyone else(?). I mean, each Sifu, branch, etc adds/deletes/modifies what they know...or at least that is what I've heard.
> Regardless, the Ip sons are far from being great. Which, is no big deal...but I have always thought that they, and those around them, have worked hard to manage public perception since they are the sons on Yip Man.
> Just my opinion though...



Yea that is a good point. 

Just would think if the narrative of Ip teaching his sons the "true" wing chun because they were his sons was true that they would have the same wing chun. You dont get born and suddenly have good kung fu skills just because your dad learnt and developed his Kung fu to a high level, you would have to go through the same learning experience as him to get to that skill. Lots of people just assume they got the best stuff cause he was there dad.







At around 3 min some chi sao starts. It shows the same guy with both Ip ching and Chun. Its interesting to see how they chi sao quite differently aswell.


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## wckf92 (Mar 31, 2016)

wow...interesting to watch the brothers and their differences. Thx for posting that.


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