# Holy Cow!



## MA-Caver (Mar 13, 2006)

A thinking man's video... http://www.freetheflash.com/videos/weaponscode.htm


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## Cryozombie (Mar 13, 2006)

well, that kid aint sitting down in class.

​


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 14, 2006)

daaaamn.  a little misleading, since he doesn't walk and we only see him from one angle, but still...


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## KenpoTex (Mar 14, 2006)

I've seen that one several times before and I personally feel that it's a little "overdone." There's no way he could walk or sit without it being obvious that something was going on. Yeah, you can conceal a lot of stuff, but this is ridiculous (and unless their "strictly enforced dress-code" calls for clothing made of saran-wrap, they could still hide a variety of weapons).


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## MA-Caver (Mar 14, 2006)

kenpotex said:
			
		

> I've seen that one several times before and I personally feel that it's a little "overdone." There's no way he could walk or sit without it being obvious that something was going on. Yeah, you can conceal a lot of stuff, but this is ridiculous (and unless their "strictly enforced dress-code" calls for clothing made of saran-wrap, they could still hide a variety of weapons).


I doubt that their point is to show just how *many* weapons one student can carry, but the various types and where/how they can be concealed. A student carrying a shotgun may have just one goal in mind as soon as they get to school and that is to quickly blow away their target(s) as soon as possible. Thus they may walk funny for a bit but they're still able to get inside school grounds/buildings before revealing their weapon and bring it to bear. Sometimes that's all they need. 
Some schools have hundreds (if not a thousand or more) students and properly planned (you'd be surprised... think Colombine) a student with even a large and unweildy weapon can slip in among a crowd un-noticed (or even assisted by friends crowded around them) concealing their "funny walk" until they reach their goal. 
But as you've seen and probably well know, a small handgun is sometimes the easiest to conceal until the time is right. 
Like I said this is a thinking man's video. Something to consider. 
Colombine was a peaceful school before Eric and Dylan snapped and let loose their rage. It can happen anywhere. 

Do I adovcate school dress codes? To a point. Like many students I would've detested the wearing of a uniform. But immodest clothing or over dressing (trench coats) in contradiction to the present weather... Those I think teachers and staff need to keep an eye out. 
Metal detectors? I dunno, scary to think about but if it will keep students safe then perhaps it's the way to go. 
When I was in grade/highschool the only thing that we really worried about as far as weaponry was a knife or a truncheon. Other than that everyone settled their disputes with good ol' fashioned punches and kicks and 99% of the students I was aware of didn't have any-type of MA training at all. 
These days... it's terrible to think about but the possibility is there. For me; if they can guarantee that our children will be safer due to these dress codes from armed conflicts then okay... but it'd have to be an iron-clad guarantee.  But it won't be possible because even if  uniforms were the norm, you can still sneak a small caliber weapon in.  
Individual dressing (and hair) styles helps with self and group identity. It helps with fitting into a group. Having a dress code strictly enforced without any type of individuality or (non-gang) group social structure minimizes personal growth and character building.


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## Ceicei (Mar 14, 2006)

Clothes don't "make" the group--although it is a great part of their identity.  If that option is taken away from them, they will find other ways to identify.  Even in schools that have their dress codes (uniforms), the kids still manage to form cliques.  

<shrug>  Granted, having school codes and other types of security measures may make things more difficult and reduce the odds; a determined person/group will, however, find a way to bring in their weapons if they have a plan.

- Ceicei


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## Cryozombie (Mar 14, 2006)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> Clothes don't "make" the group--although it is a great part of their identity.  If that option is taken away from them, they will find other ways to identify.  Even in schools that have their dress codes (uniforms), the kids still manage to form cliques.
> 
> - Ceicei



This is an excellent point and somthing I noticed here.  They started enforcing a dress code recently so the gangs in the area couldnt wear their "colors" to school... so now instead each one has adapted a "style".  For example.  One of the local latino gangs now has each member in the school wearing dark blue pants and a plain white t-shirt.  Perfectly acceptable by the dress code standards, but woe be unto any student who shows up in a white tshirt now...


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## theletch1 (Mar 14, 2006)

The local school board here has a dress code that is enforced at random.  I've seen some girls coming out of the school wearing what can only be deemed appropriate for hookers and guys coming from the school wearing pants that show more than a plumber would be comfortable with.  Lately school uniforms have been a topic of much debate here.  I'm split on the idea but leaning more toward it everytime I see a child leaving the school with vulgarity or drug slogans on a t-shirt or a young girl dressed way too scantily.  Yes, I know.  What about their freedom of expression?  Plenty of time after school for that.


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## MA-Caver (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm all for freedom of expression ... so long as the person *understands completely* what they're expressing.  Just knowing that a vulgar statement on a shirt is vulgar and sexual in nature does not IMO constitutes a complete understanding. They just know that it's dirty and people can be offended by it. I'm trying to give kids credit but on the other hand they simply do not have the maturity to fully be aware of what it is they're saying. 
Thus before, during and/or after school a kid needs to wear what's appropriate for their age level.


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## bushidomartialarts (Mar 14, 2006)

as someone leaning towards libertarianism, the idea of school uniforms galls me at a gut level.

on the other hand, there's a huge body of research that suggests school uniforms drastically improve the learning enviroment in a school.  students learn more, suffer less bullying and generally behave better.  

there was even a study that seemed to show that a student can improve test scores by a grade level just by wearing a tie to class -- something to do with mindset and confidence.


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## terryl965 (Mar 14, 2006)

All I know when my son school goes to uniform I begin home schooling. The video is a bit over darn but I do get there point, our great county was founded on freedom and freedom we must have.
Terry


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## KenpoTex (Mar 15, 2006)

MA-Caver said:
			
		

> I doubt that their point is to show just how *many* weapons one student can carry, but the various types and where/how they can be concealed. A student carrying a shotgun may have just one goal in mind as soon as they get to school and that is to quickly blow away their target(s) as soon as possible. Thus they may walk funny for a bit but they're still able to get inside school grounds/buildings before revealing their weapon and bring it to bear. Sometimes that's all they need.
> Some schools have hundreds (if not a thousand or more) students and properly planned (you'd be surprised... think Colombine) a student with even a large and unweildy weapon can slip in among a crowd un-noticed (or even assisted by friends crowded around them) concealing their "funny walk" until they reach their goal.
> But as you've seen and probably well know, a small handgun is sometimes the easiest to conceal until the time is right.
> Like I said this is a thinking man's video. Something to consider.
> Colombine was a peaceful school before Eric and Dylan snapped and let loose their rage. It can happen anywhere.


 I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible to carry any or all of those weapons, just that it wouldn't really be likely that someone wouldn't notice that something was amiss.  I guess my objection to the whole thing was that the woman on the video is obviously trying to sell people on the idea that if they had uniforms, it wouldn't be possible to hide the weapons (at least that's how I interpreted it).  Basically we are seeing another example of the "false sense of security" thing.  There were only a couple of the weapons (the shotgun and the mac-11, and _maybe_ the large revolver) that couldn't be concealed by someone wearing pants [that actually fit] and a tucked-in shirt.  
I don't know...I still think it's a dumb video.


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