# Wing Chun Dummy



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

Does anybody use this to aid in their training?  Does anyone know
of drills, specific to improving your kenpo, for the dummy?

At Mr Duffy's camp last October, Mr Trejo had us stand with our
elbows close in, but our arms out "like a wing chun dummy" he
said.  Starting from the outside, the one doing the drill on that
person would inward parry, outward parry and strike.  Moving 
from the outside, to the inside on each side, and ending up on 
the opposite side of where you started.  It was pretty cool ... not 
really worth the purchase of a dummy if that's all you can do on 
one.


----------



## KanoLives (May 7, 2003)

Don't have one. Would like to get one. They cost way to much, so when I have some time I am going to build one of my own. From research I've done on building it should only cost at most around $150 - $200. As far as things you can use them for, well at least conditioning, speed, accuracy, and control. I've seen some people go crazy on the dummy. Just another tool for the MA toolbox.

:asian:


----------



## tarabos (May 7, 2003)

i think if you have plans to buy one, once you see the cost of a quality wing chung dummy you will most likely change your mind. making it is a fine suggestion, but that too will take time and a bit of cash, and most importantly, the know-how to do it.

and speaking of "know-how." if you were to buy or make a dummy, you would really need some guidance on how you can use it. yes, you could take techniques and try to apply them to the dummy, but i don't know if it would be of as much benefit as going to you class and banging out techniques on "real" dummies.

i would not discourage anyone from trying it first though. see if you can find a place to try one out and see if you like the feel of it.


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

That's what I'm getting at.  Where can I go to find out WHAT to
do and what not to do on a dummy?  I've seen the prices, I'm
cool with it, IF it will truly help my kenpo develop.


----------



## KanoLives (May 7, 2003)

I think the first place to start would be asking your instructor if he knows any techs he can teach you for using the dummy. If he doesn't then ask him if he knows or can recommend some info for ya.


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ChineseKempoAL _
> *I think the first place to start would be asking your instructor if he knows any techs he can teach you for using the dummy. If he doesn't then ask him if he knows or can recommend some info for ya. *



I've asked LOADS of people .. although I've seen kenpoists use it,
I can't find anyone to tell me what to do on it.

I'd bet anything if a kenpoist released a video on how to improve
your kenpo by using one, they'd make some good money!

We don't use a speed bag at my school .. yet a lot of kenpoists
will tell you that they will improve your speed, train your mind
in keeping your guard up at all times, and increase your hand-eye
coordination.  There's even a video out called the speed bag
bible that'll tell you how to use one.  But I can't find resources
for the d ummy.


----------



## tarabos (May 7, 2003)

myself, i have never seen or known anyone that used a wing chung dummy in their training (speaking specifically about EPAK). personally i do not feel that it is neccessary for the style. that's just me though, i rather get in some extra line drills and bang on a human body and do some sparring.


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tarabos _
> *myself, i have never seen or known anyone that used a wing chung dummy in their training (speaking specifically about EPAK). personally i do not feel that it is neccessary for the style. that's just me though, i rather get in some extra line drills and bang on a human body and do some sparring. *



Me too ... however:

1) with my schedule, I don't always get to make it to class
2) I'm obsessive, and spend a lot of time in the garage working out
3) It's not always easy to find a training partner outside of class
4) there is an appeal to the dummy, especially to never studied
new students ... if/when I ever get to teach


----------



## satans.barber (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Me too ... however:
> 3) It's not always easy to find a training partner outside of class
> *



I think this is a big problem with kenpo, in my opinion it's pretty hard to practice on your own. You can practice on air all you want (single techniques or forms, whatever), but I find that if I practice like that too much, I have to make too many adjustments when I get back to training with a partner...it just works out that way. I reckon one our with a partner is worth ten training on your own, but that's just my own opinion, I know lots of people train alone all the time. Also, training with other people is social, I get bored too quick on my own with only the radio for company, but I can train for hours and hours with friends.

I think a dummy would be pretty cool for this reason, it's got proper 'arms' to practice on, unlike a bag where you have to either imagine the limbs or just beat on it a bit.

Doesn't that Rojas guy use a dummy in the 'When Kenpo Strikes' video? Maybe you could write to his school and ask him for some advice? Other than that, I don't know; I don't have any personal experience with one (although I've secretly always wanted one!). Could buy yourself a Wing Chun book maybe? That's practically designed around the dummy from what I can gather...

Ian.


----------



## fist of fury (May 7, 2003)

It would be blasphemy for you to use one in your EPAK training. The spirits of the ancient grandmasters will rise up from thier graves an wreck vengence upon you for daring to practice EPAK on a Wing Chun dummy. 

I bet you're scared now aren't you


----------



## tarabos (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Me too ... however:
> 
> 1) with my schedule, I don't always get to make it to class
> ...



if you already have garage gym set up, and you don't have a heavy bag in there...i would suggest investing in that strongly. particuarly a nice, quality bannana bag would be best, and perhaps some double end bags of different sorts. i've never known EPAK people who use a wing chung dummy, but i've known very many that use a heavy bag in their kenpo training. and i'm not speaking of boxing workouts here, i mean tailoring kenpo to the heavy bag. working on specific techniques or just single strikes and combos from certain techniques, trying to develope power and accuracy and form. i never underestimate the value of the heavybag.

my training partner and i went down a few years ago to an old friend's school that had been open for a short while...about a year. when we went to go workout with him he was like a new man. he was sharp, extremely focuesed and powerful, and gave us quite a beatdown. when we asked him how he had made the transformation in such a short amount of time, he replied and said he had just been doing a lot of cardio, and really focusing on his techs and working them hard on the heavybag relentlessly. and of course working with his students...but most of the time it was just him and the heavybag.

as for students....whenever i'm teaching and a student is having trouble getting a strike right or just can't seem to generate the power that i know they can...i take them in the backroom to the heavybag and have them work that strike for pretty much the remainder of the class...

when they come back to the classroom, they almost always come back with a better understanding of how to generate the power in the strike, and they feel much more comfortable with it.


----------



## ikenpo (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *I've asked LOADS of people .. although I've seen kenpoists use it,
> I can't find anyone to tell me what to do on it.
> 
> ...



Kirk,

My brother, this simply is not true. I told you one of books I highly recommend is by Michael Janich. The Mook Jong Construction Manual. He shows you step by step how to make the wooden dummy and a variation of Kelly Worden's silent figher, called the Human Response Dummy (my preference). 

In terms of drills, Joe Simmonet's wooden dummy training videos are very good for set drills to do on it..or Alemeria, Joaquin	Mok Jong vol 1 & 2, he is on Budo video. He does the sets that Dan Inosanto requires, also a very good tape, but he's French so much of it is look and see without a lot of explaining....he also did some excellent arnis tapes, but that's another story..

jb:asian:


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by jbkenpo _
> *Kirk,
> 
> My brother, this simply is not true. I told you one of books I highly recommend is by Michael Janich. The Mook Jong Construction Manual. He shows you step by step how to make the wooden dummy and a variation of Kelly Worden's silent figher, called the Human Response Dummy (my preference).
> ...



Yeah, the build your own book, I'm going to buy, and give to a 
friend that's a woodworker and have him hook me up.  I don't
recall you ever giving me the video references ... I just tried looking on the net for them .. found an $89.00 book from 
Simmonet, but no videos ... and only kali videos for Almeria


----------



## Jayson Barley (May 7, 2003)

I am building my own dummy this year and am planning on using it to practice techniques and basics. I am also building a blocking/parry dummy to practice the basics on as well. 

Don't know if this helps.

Jayson Barley


----------



## ProfessorKenpo (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *I've asked LOADS of people .. although I've seen kenpoists use it,
> I can't find anyone to tell me what to do on it.
> 
> ...



Hey Kirk, try this link, it has some cool vids on it.

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/index.asp

this one too.   http://www.wckfc.com/news/dummy/

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo _
> *Hey Kirk, try this link, it has some cool vids on it.
> 
> http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/index.asp
> ...



Way cool.  That's not all that impressive .... not "go buy me a 
dummy" impressive.  I think I'll buy those little plastic heavy bag
attachment jobs.


----------



## ikenpo (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> *Way cool.  That's not all that impressive .... not "go buy me a
> dummy" impressive.  I think I'll buy those little plastic heavy bag
> attachment jobs. *



Borrow Craig's first to see if you like it...

jb


----------



## bdparsons (May 7, 2003)

If your looking for dummy training to sharpen your technique I would highly reccomend the Ultraman Dummy that you can get through the Karate Connection. I work out on it regularly and love the targets it supplies and being freestanding it doesn't swing like a heavy bag. 

Check it out:  www.karateconnection.com/UltraMan.htm

Respects,
Bill


----------



## Kirk (May 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by bdparsons _
> *If your looking for dummy training to sharpen your technique I would highly reccomend the Ultraman Dummy that you can get through the Karate Connection. I work out on it regularly and love the targets it supplies and being freestanding it doesn't swing like a heavy bag.
> 
> Check it out:  www.karateconnection.com/UltraMan.htm
> ...



Already in the process of attaining one!

Love your sight by the way.


----------

