# I called the State Police



## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

My daughter is 17 and received an instant message from a 16 year-old female friend whom I've forbid her to see.  The girl, "J," was living with her 20 year-old boyfriend in an adjacent town.  J is now back at home for the school year.  You may have heard me speak of my neighbors - they have a lot of loud domestic disputes, a front yard full of cars, trash, etc.  J's family rents a trailer on the property.  I think they are all related somehow but not 100%.

At any rate, J came out as bisexual to my daughter and solicited her for sex.  She also said her boyfriend (20) was turned on by girls with girls and they were looking for a partner.  BULL-you-know-what!  I imagine the man saw my daughter's pic on myspace and put J up to the solicitation.  That's a likely scenario.

I had a feeling that because my daughter is 17 that nothing could be done.  I was right about that.  But what if they are/or start soliciting underage teenagers?  At least the State Police have the man's myspace account information, his name, and the girl's name and address.

Personally, I would not let my 16 year old daughter date a 20 year old guy, much less move in with him!  But I'm a prude as it were.  Sheesh.  J invited my daughter to come over and hang out because she had the house all to herself.  Another  Bull.....  That could have been a setup for all I know.

I don't like wasting the Police's time, but hey, you never know what else might be going on, or what could happen in the future.

What would you have done?  (Honestly, I feel like beating the crap out of both the girl and the man.) Think I'll go practice my form and make those punches really count.


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## bydand (Sep 6, 2007)

Personally I am not much of a prude, but in a situation like this; I would think a set of testes hanging off the mailbox post would serve as a warning for the next perv who should think about the same thing.:btg:

I too would have informed the police, if nothing more than to give them a heads up about a 20 year old man who is living with/sleeping with a 16 year old girl.


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## exile (Sep 6, 2007)

bydand said:


> I too would have informed the police, if nothing more than to give them a heads up about a 20 year old man who is living with/sleeping with a 16 year old girl.



Ditto to Scott's post.

Isn't 16y.o. still covered by statutory rape indictment in most states? I thought that the usual age-of-consent was 17... ?

And one other thing, Lynne: once you get started on board breaking, you'll find it's a _terrific_ way to sublimate the urge to fatally damage all the creeps you come across who make you want to do thatand in contrast to creeps, you can't get sued for breaking boards!


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## CoryKS (Sep 6, 2007)

exile said:


> And one other thing, Lynne: once you get started on board breaking, you'll find it's a _terrific_ way to sublimate the urge to fatally damage all the creeps you come across who make you want to do thatand in contrast to creeps, you can't get sued for breaking boards!


 
And if it _doesn't_ control the urge, it's great practice!


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## Tames D (Sep 6, 2007)

I tell ya... It's that damn My Space. The root of all evil...


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## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

exile said:


> Ditto to Scott's post.
> 
> Isn't 16y.o. still covered by statutory rape indictment in most states? I thought that the usual age-of-consent was 17... ?
> 
> And one other thing, Lynne: once you get started on board breaking, you'll find it's a _terrific_ way to sublimate the urge to fatally damage all the creeps you come across who make you want to do thatand in contrast to creeps, you can't get sued for breaking boards!


The age of consent is 17 in New York so I don't know why the State Police weren't interested in checking that out!  Or maybe they are pursuing it and just didn't say anything to us since it's none of our business. 

I'm going to think of this situation when I break the boards; it should help me to follow through.


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## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

QUI-GON said:


> I tell ya... It's that damn My Space. The root of all evil...


Myspace can be a lot of fun, but it can be a source of trouble, too, if one isn't careful.


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## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

CoryKS said:


> And if it _doesn't_ control the urge, it's great practice!


I'll imagine their heads one foot away from the back side of the board.


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## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

bydand said:


> Personally I am not much of a prude, but in a situation like this; I would think a set of testes hanging off the mailbox post would serve as a warning for the next perv who should think about the same thing.:btg:
> 
> I too would have informed the police, if nothing more than to give them a heads up about a 20 year old man who is living with/sleeping with a 16 year old girl.


Testes hanging off the mailbox - I like that!


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## jks9199 (Sep 6, 2007)

Lynne said:


> My daughter is 17 and received an instant message from a 16 year-old female friend whom I've forbid her to see. The girl, "J," was living with her 20 year-old boyfriend in an adjacent town. J is now back at home for the school year. You may have heard me speak of my neighbors - they have a lot of loud domestic disputes, a front yard full of cars, trash, etc. J's family rents a trailer on the property. I think they are all related somehow but not 100%.
> 
> At any rate, J came out as bisexual to my daughter and solicited her for sex. She also said her boyfriend (20) was turned on by girls with girls and they were looking for a partner. BULL-you-know-what! I imagine the man saw my daughter's pic on myspace and put J up to the solicitation. That's a likely scenario.
> 
> ...


 


exile said:


> Ditto to Scott's post.
> 
> Isn't 16y.o. still covered by statutory rape indictment in most states? I thought that the usual age-of-consent was 17... ?
> 
> And one other thing, Lynne: once you get started on board breaking, you'll find it's a _terrific_ way to sublimate the urge to fatally damage all the creeps you come across who make you want to do thatand in contrast to creeps, you can't get sued for breaking boards!


 


Lynne said:


> The age of consent is 17 in New York so I don't know why the State Police weren't interested in checking that out! Or maybe they are pursuing it and just didn't say anything to us since it's none of our business.
> 
> I'm going to think of this situation when I break the boards; it should help me to follow through.


 
From what you've posted, it's unclear, but it's very possible that many laws may have been violated.  At the very least, it appears that a 20 year old is engaging in sexual activity with a 16 year old -- and soliciting sexual acts from another child (at 17, your daughter is, in most states, still a minor).  I suggest you contact your local police department or sheriff's office, and speak directly with a detective investigating such offenses.


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## exile (Sep 6, 2007)

jks9199 said:


> From what you've posted, it's unclear, but it's very possible that many laws may have been violated.  At the very least, it appears that a 20 year old is engaging in sexual activity with a 16 year old -- and soliciting sexual acts from another child (at 17, your daughter is, in most states, still a minor).  I suggest you contact your local police department or sheriff's office, and speak directly with a detective investigating such offenses.



Right, that's just the sort of thing I was wondering aboutI don't know of _any_ state where age of consent is less than 17, and yes, solicitation like that is covered, as far as I know, under various laws against `pandering'. Lynne, methinks you could really nail this piece of filth if you go see someone in the prosecutor's office in person. The place where he and this 16 year old are living... I take it they don't know her age? That in itself seems weirdbut not as weird as if they _do_ know and are just turning a blind eye to it.

Breaking has a number of components, but apart from the technical factors, one of the real biggies is _commitment_ to the strike. And I've found that when I'm in a certain fairly irritated frame of mind, it's very easy to find that commitmentso thinking about this vermin could be a very good tactic for you in learning breaking!


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## bushidomartialarts (Sep 6, 2007)

According to 'ageofconsent.com', as of 2002 the age of legal consent in New York is 17 for male-female, male-male and female-female sex.

That guy is breaking the law with his girlfriend, but not with your daughter.  It shouldn't be too hard for you to find somebody in government to make his life miserable.

To other avenues to explore...

One, how does your daughter feel about these people?  Will she respect your wishes and avoid them, cut off all contact?  Or is that a whole 'nother set of concerns?

Two, you may want to bring three hard-looking friends and have a quick face-to-face with the 20 year old who is soliciting your daughter for a three-way.  Make it very clear that, law or no, he is to stay the hell away from you and yours.  Make it clear you know where he lives, where he works, and which parts of the body hurt the most to hit.  Don't threaten.  Don't hit.  Don't yell.  Just calmly imply that this is a road he wants no part of walking down.

Just my two cents.


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## terryl965 (Sep 6, 2007)

bydand said:


> Personally I am not much of a prude, but in a situation like this; I would think a set of testes hanging off the mailbox post would serve as a warning for the next perv who should think about the same thing.:btg:
> 
> I too would have informed the police, if nothing more than to give them a heads up about a 20 year old man who is living with/sleeping with a 16 year old girl.


 

my feeling exactly


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## Flying Crane (Sep 6, 2007)

You might want to consider this a little differently.  If your daughter is truly of legal age of consent, then you might want to approach this with more finesse and less brawn.

If she is of legal age, the choice ultimately comes down to her, whether you like it or not.  The more iron-fisted you are about it, the more she may decide to go for it, just to spite you, even if she might have chosen otherwise.  Teenagers are just that way, sometimes.  I don't know what your relationship with your daughter is like, so I'm not trying to imply anything.  I'm just saying it's something you shouldn't forget.  I remember what it was like to be a teenager and have a pair of good-hearted killjoy parents who drove me nuts and always seemed like they were in the way.  You probably remember it too. 

I would suggest you keep an open dialog with your daughter, and not try to dictate anything to her and don't show a lot of harsh judgement.  You can make your feelings on the subject known very clearly, but if she feels she is being pushed, she may push back.  

Teenagers reach a point where they want to begin making their own decisions.  If she is of legal age, then the law is on her side in this case.  And sometimes, they will make poor decisions, but they are their decisions to make.  A parent has to begin easing up on the controls at some point, and trust the teenager to remember the values you have tried to instill in them.  It can be tough to back off, tho, and the right time to do so probably varies quite a bit from one circumstance to another.  But it's something to consider.

You can communicate to the other parties that you don't appreciate their advances on your daughter, and you expect them to back off.  But it all comes back to your daughter's choices, and what kind of relationship you have with her.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 6, 2007)

bushidomartialarts said:


> Two, you may want to bring three hard-looking friends and have a quick face-to-face with the 20 year old who is soliciting your daughter for a three-way. Make it very clear that, law or no, he is to stay the hell away from you and yours. Make it clear you know where he lives, where he works, and which parts of the body hurt the most to hit. Don't threaten. Don't hit. Don't yell. Just calmly imply that this is a road he wants no part of walking down.
> 
> Just my two cents.


 
I would suggest you don't do anything that could imply a threat of physical harm to these people.  That could backfire very quickly and you might be the one getting an unpleasant visit from the police, slapping you with a restraining order.


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## jks9199 (Sep 6, 2007)

Flying Crane said:


> I would suggest you don't do anything that could imply a threat of physical harm to these people.  That could backfire very quickly and you might be the one getting an unpleasant visit from the police, slapping you with a restraining order.


Ditto on that...  Never make a threat that your neither prepared nor willing to carry out.

But I don't think there's a communication problem between Lynne & her daughter; after all, the daughter brought the message to Lynne's attention.  The biggest problem is that, if it was made in a chat, there's a very good chance that there's no record of it.  And that, according to Lynne's original post, it wasn't the 20 year old making the solicitation directly.  Details like that are why I suggested discussing the situation with a detective who investigates offenses involving the internet and kids; there are many complicated aspects to these cases.  Bluntly -- I'm not trained enough in these cases myself to work them.  If Lynne can't find local police to assist her, she might contact the FBI; there's information at Innocent Images


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## Carol (Sep 6, 2007)

A couple of details are nagging at me.  

Were the police told that the person that specifically made the solicitation for sex was 16?

Also was this truly a *solicitation for sex - *meaning a financial transaction for sex (which is prostitution) or did the 16 y.o just say she wanted to have sex with the 17 y.o. (without involving monies)?


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## grydth (Sep 6, 2007)

Of the sage advice thus far, Flying Crane's I think is excellent.

Lynne, We'll support you as you have my worst nightmare on your hands - we have 4 kids, the youngest 2 being girls. Nothing worse than sleazy girl friends and dirt bag boyfriends when it comes to ruining a young girl's life. 

 As stated, do not get yourself in criminal trouble for hara


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## grydth (Sep 6, 2007)

.... Let me try adding the *whole* post this time...

Do not get yourself in criminal trouble for communicating threats, harassment or assault. That won't solve anything - and this dirt bag may well have a weapon. That, however, does not mean you cannot invest in an excellent defensive weapon, such as a large and well trained Rottweiler. Big dogs work wonders in keeping undesirables at the property line...

Sound advice given already about not overwhelming your daughter... this does not rule out a subtle and supportive full court press. 

Don't forget what brought you to this forum in the first place. Many Dojos today have evolved into community groups - I'd suggest you both talking things over with the head of the MA school and senior instructors. They may well be postive influences on her. You can try those that are close to her and whom she respects - teachers, aunts, older siblings, clergy.... maybe somebody who can tell her, "Don't repeat the mistake I made..." 

Maybe a rep from a women's shelter can offer advice and pro-active measures. Someone who knows computers better than I could advise you on blocking out sites and/or messages from these scum.

If moving out of this neighborhood isn't feasible, invest in an office consult with a lawyer. Get an idea from them of what might work in your specific circumstances, from orders of protection to suits to criminal complaints. Let the expert tell you about which conduct of yours could cross the line.

Depending on how that goes, consider the media. Nothing like seeing a public official grilled on the local news, "Why won't you help this mother protect her child? What would you do if it were *your* daughter, Mayor Blintz? " Shame is a dandy weapon and a stimulus to action, especially in the Fall.

Mostly - let your daughter see you for what you are: a caring and loving mother keeping the wolves away.


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## MarkBarlow (Sep 6, 2007)

Obviously, this has the potential to be a horrible situation but there is one thing that should make you feel good.  You and your daughter must have a great relationship for her to be so honest and open with you.  You are to be congratulated for raising a child who has enough respect for both herself and for you to make intelligent choices.  Kudos in the parenting department.:highfive:


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## Lynne (Sep 6, 2007)

I went to the trouble to clarify some points and answer your questions.  I typed a long response and got logged out and lost the text.

I will respond tomorrow; it's late and I have to go to bed if I can wind down from karate class.

Thank you very much for your support.

Goodnight.


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## Lynne (Sep 7, 2007)

To answer your questions and clarify:

Carol, righto.  There was no money involved, so solicitation was the wrong word?

The 20 year old hasn't contacted my daughter.  His girlfriend, "J," contacted my daughter.  She did say that she wanted to have sex with my daughter and that her boyfriend was turned on by girls-with-girls.  J said they were looking for someone to join them.  I can only jump to one of these conclusions:

- the dirtbag boyfriend asked J to find someone to join them
- J decided to ask my daughter on her own accord because she knew this would please her boyfriend if she could find someone
- the boyfriend saw my daughter's picture on myspace and asked J to contact her

My gut instinct says it was the latter.  For one thing, my daughter was totally shocked that J would even ask that sort of thing.  My daughter said, "I can't believe she asked me that.  She should know me better than that.  She's really changed a lot.  She's become a slut and I guess she thinks everyone else is, too."

I stopped the girls from seeing one another about two years ago because the girl was unsupervised (her parents worked/do work 2nd shift) and she was getting into trouble.  She'd begun smoking, she was drinking alcohol, boys were coming over, and she was arrested for shoplifting at Wal-Mart.  I imagine much of that was a cry for help and a great deal of loneliness, but I wasn't going to have my daughter dragged down that path.  Also, J betrayed my daughter and my daughter found out that their friendship wasn't all that valuable.  The girl had become an all-out manipulator and liar.

Yes, 17 is the age of consent in New York.  J is 16, won't be 17 until January.  I can't say if the boy is truly 20 because I don't know him.  A 16 year old might lie about her boyfriend's age to try and impress other teens.  My gut instinct tells me he is 20 though.  I agree that a 20 year old shouldn't be sleeping with a 16 year old.  My husband and I weren't sure who to call.  The man's residence is in Broome County and we live in Tioga County; that's we called the State Police.  We don't have a local police department but the town the man lives in does.  Now, that the girl is back home for the school year, do you think it's a moot point to go to the police/sheriff?  Or do you think I should pursue it anyway?  The guy is a dirtbag for wanting to bring in a third person, especially since the girl is 16.  On the otherhand, the girl chose to live with him during the summer.  But she is only 16, which is why such laws are made I suppose!

My husband and myself have a very close relationship with our daughter.  One mistake I made is that I called the State Police before I told her I was going to do so.  She was in bed and she was startled when I informed her.  She was a little miffed.  I believe it was mostly embarrassment  because she knew she'd have to regurgitate the sorded details to a stranger (two male officers came out actually).  I'm glad I thought about this.  I need to apologize to her for not warning her.  This is one reason we are so close - I apologize when I make mistakes.  It's a respect issue.

I was careful to explain to her why I'd involved the police.  I told her that it wasn't moral, it wasn't normal, to ask people for sex online.  I told her the boyfriend was probably behind the whole thing, using his girlfriend to find partners so he wouldn't get into trouble.  We talked about the sanctity of relationships and that multiple partners was not a good thing. (I don't want to step on toes here; some here may be polyamorous, but it's up to me to teach my daughter what I think is right/wrong.)  We also talked, once again, about how having multiple partners increases one's chances of contracting HIV and other STD's.  My daughter knew all of this in her own heart. 

In case some people want to say this a "gayness" issue, it is not.  I have taught my daughter tolerance.  She had a close friend who is lesbian, so it's not the homosexual issue.

My husband and I are very fortunate that our daughter has turned out as she has.  We do homeschool which provides some control and some shelter from the negative aspects of the high school environment.  No, she is not being smothered.  We have volunteered at a state-run nursing home (that was a ghastly place) and a food shelter.  At one time, we were very involved in the church.  Leaving the church was actually one of the best things we did.  But she has a moral foundation to look back upon.  She's quite headstrong and micromanagement of her personal life by the church would have been a detriment, and indeed, would have caused rebellion.

Being a headstrong girl, my daughter could have gotten into a load of trouble if involved with the wrong crowd.  The girl next door is one of the reasons my husband and I decided to continue homeschooling; we didn't want our daughter going down that path.  Perhaps it's socioeconomic, but our local high school has a large undisciplined population of students.  Two years ago, my daughter went to a school dance and girls were doing lap dances on boy's laps.  Teachers nor chaperones did anything to stop that nonsense.  In at least one other school district, that kind of behavior is not allowed.

True, she doesn't have her driver's license yet nor is she working.  Right now, she is concentrating on her studies and martial arts.  I think she has a rather full plate with the two.

When she is 18, it will be her decision whom her friends are.

I think she really has what it takes to be a fine martial artist.  She is willing to stand up and tell the truth and she's willing to defend others.  A teenage male in our class had gotten fresh with one of the women in class.  In the locker room, she told us what the young man had did while she had him in a headlock.  He'd ground his face into her breasts and moved his hand up her thigh toward her private area.  My daughter and I discussed this and we talked about how it might continue if not stopped.  We talked about how inappropriate it was for a martial artist to act this way.  We also discussed that the woman would probably be reluctant to say anything.  My daughter made the decision on her own to say something to the senior female instructor.  She's not the tattle-tale type.  She thought it over and decided the situation wasn't going to fly! 

I'm thankful that my daughter has her eye on achievement and accomplishment.  Being a headstrong young woman, things could have gone very badly if she decided she'd wanted to experiment/rebel.


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## Lynne (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh, I do have a german shepherd.  He's AKC, all black, and a sweetiepie.  I'm not sure what he'd do if someone broke into the home.  He was two years old in May and has only barked twice.  And he's intact!

His predecessor was something else (sable german shepherd in my avatar).  "Harley" (114#) was quite aggressive towards other people.  I muzzled him when I walked him.  He would jump on the back door so hard when someone knocked that we were worried he'd shatter the glass panes.  He scared away quite a few people.

So, even with the even-tempered black shepherd, we have the reputation of being "those people with the big mean dog."  No one knows this one is laid back.

That doesn't bother me at all.  Considering the number of meth labs in my county and the fact that we are in a rural area, it's a good thing.

As far as aggression and threats go, no I wouldn't approach the man or his girlfriend.  I'm one of the most easygoing people I know, but I can't say how I'd react in this kind of situation.  I'm a parent and my emotions are involved.  I can't trust myself not to do something unlawful or close to unlawful.

I know some people fantasize about what they would do or what they would like to do, or they go beat up on a pillow and imagine it's their foe.  I'm not so sure these things are good either.  I think it trains your mind to react in a violent manner - that's just my personal opinion.  I do think doing something physical like breaking boards or practicing forms or running is good to release the tension though.  I could channel my tension and anger into the boards without specifically thinking of some violent act.

The natural response is to want to beat the heck out of someone, I'll agree with that!


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## Tez3 (Sep 7, 2007)

Lynne,you seem to have walked the fine line between over-reacting and being too laid back with great finesse! My daughter is 22 now and we are great friends. She, like your daughter, is very strong willed and it took a lot of effort sometimes to try and let her make her own mistakes but keep her safe at the same time.sometimes my tongue I swear was bitten through. There's a lot to be said for locking your daughters up lol! Seriously though you seem to have struck the right note with her. We, hopefully, teach our children to be independent and with moral principles so we can let them off to make their own lives without worrying overmuch.

It's very easy to try and make all the decisions for them and to lay down the law, all I think that does is send them off in the wrong direction. 

When my daughter was 10 and about to go to senior school at 11 we were looking for a suitable school. One we looked at was a very good Jewish boarding school ( sadly closed before we could enter her). the headmaster had a very good view of the children's pyschology. the school food of course was Kosher but the children would either sneak off to the local pizza shop or order from them.They weren't Kosher so the kids were breaking the 'rules', this didn't worry the headmaster at all but he would make a point of making seem as if he was horrified by it. Every so often he would launch a 'campaign' against buying the pizza, he would catch some of the children who ordered it and give them extra homework etc. The children were really convinced that by having illicit pizza they were being rebels and flouting the system so they weren't bothered about flouting any other rules. As the headmaster said the children needed something to rebel against and when the rules were enforced they may resent it but deep down they knew it was because someone cared enough about them to care what they were doing. As the children grew older they realised this.
BTW this is the school that 'Ali G's' alter ego  went to.


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## Flying Crane (Sep 7, 2007)

Lynne said:


> For one thing, my daughter was totally shocked that J would even ask that sort of thing. My daughter said, "I can't believe she asked me that. She should know me better than that. She's really changed a lot. She's become a slut and I guess she thinks everyone else is, too."


 

Sounds to me like this won't become a real problem for you.  She's got a clear head about it, and has established her own boundaries that seem to correspond closely with your own.  While the whole situation sounds pretty irritating, I wouldn't worry too much about it, so far as your daughter is concerned.  Congratulations on establishing a good, healthy, respectful, and open relationship with her.


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## Lynne (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks for the support and the encouraging comments.  Much appreciated!


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

Update

The young lady, "J," had a baby (duh?) in April, by the aforementioned man, "S," for stupid.  She is now 17 and he's 21.  She may be pregnant again (duh). Maybe I should reverse those initials.

J's parents are tenants of my next door neighbor.  They live in a mobile home on the property.  J's boyfriend moved in with the family.

When I was walking my dog, I saw S (didn't know it was him at the time), sitting out front, talking on his cellphone.  I didn't recognize him as being family or a tenant.  I did get the creeps though.  There was something about him.  Maybe because he looks like a skinhead?  Can't help but make judgements sometimes.  But often our instincts are right on.

Anyway, we live on 6 acres.  The back of the property is wooded with a path that runs along the creek.  (Yes, it's very nice.)  My husband keeps the path cut so that we can walk the dog back there and just enjoy  nature.  We've thought about putting a screened observatory back there.  Those plans may be put off...until we win the lotto and can afford a fence.

My husband noticed that pieces of cardboard had been nailed to some of the trees and that they had orange paint on some, green on some.  Surely not something the forestry service would do (at first we thought maybe they had marked trees for some reason as some are diseased).  Paintball?

My husband asked my neighbor if he knew the source of the cardboard markers (we didn't ask about the cigarette butts).  He does have a 22 year-old son renting an upstairs apartment; we thought he might have been playing paintball.  My husband was very nice about it, just inquiring.  We were more curious than anything.

The neighbor talked to my husband yesterday.  The tenant's daughter's boyfriend, "S," had been playing paintball on our property.  He's also been shooting our trees with BB's.  He actually shot out one of the neighbor's windows with BB's.  He pointed the BB gun at one of the neighbor's children, a 6 year old boy.  The neighbor confronted the "S" (remember "S" for stupid) and told him not to go on other people's property.  "S" said we didn't go back there anyway, blah, blah, and gave the neighbor a bunch of lip.  What gall  Of course, that speaks to his character.  When I got his myspace account for the state police, it said he was majoring in criminal justice! :BSmeter:

Anyway, my daughter is 18 and I've instructed her to make sure she is fully-clothed at all times.  I fully expect a peeping Tom.  My deceased German Shepherd alerted quickly.  This one is laid back and doesn't bark unless he wants a snack so we may not know that someone is creeping around.  I've smelled cigarette smoke a few times but that could have been from anywhere.


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## KELLYG (Jul 23, 2008)

I am glad you called the State Police.   My creep-o-meter is going off just by reading what was posted.  I am also glad that you and your daughter have a relationship such that she could come to you if her creep-o-meter goes off.  Keep your eyes on this guy he is up to no good.


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## Kreth (Jul 23, 2008)

Lynne said:


> My husband noticed that pieces of cardboard had been nailed to some of the trees and that they had orange paint on some, green on some.  Surely not something the forestry service would do (at first we thought maybe they had marked trees for some reason as some are diseased).  Paintball?


Pick yourself up a low-end paintball gun and some ammo. Store ammo in the freezer. When you see the scumbag in your backyard, open fire. If he reports it, since he was in your yard, you thought the game was open to anyone... :idunno:


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

KELLYG said:


> I am glad you called the State Police. My creep-o-meter is going off just by reading what was posted. I am also glad that you and your daughter have a relationship such that she could come to you if her creep-o-meter goes off. Keep your eyes on this guy he is up to no good.


 Why did he have to move next door?  I thought he would split as soon as the girl was pregnant. I can't say for sure, but I don't think he has a job.  He has a roof over his head and I suspect there is welfare money and food stamps coming in because of the baby.  He may be there for awhile unless he's evicted.

Someone who is 21 and acts like he does is definitely up to no good.  I know there are some law officers on this site.  I wonder what they would have to say.  Can you imagine shooting someone's window out at 21?  The balls to go onto someone else's property and nail stuff to their trees?  Those traits have to be earmarks for the potential for serious criminal activity in the future.

He moved in without permission from the landlord, too.  Of course he didn't get permission.  Entitlement, you know.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 23, 2008)

exile said:


> Isn't 16y.o. still covered by statutory rape indictment in most states? I thought that the usual age-of-consent was 17... ?


 
In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19. 

Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19.
> 
> Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.


 I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old.  Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young.  There are exceptions I suppose.


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 23, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old. Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young. There are exceptions I suppose.


 
I knew a guy in High school. He was a second year Senior (so, he was 19). His girl friend was a freshman (she was 14). Long story short, she's 16 and pregnant.


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## DavidCC (Jul 23, 2008)

Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy).  She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind).  So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.  

I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history.  Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy). She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind). So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.
> 
> I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history. Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.


 It's funny how visions of chops to the jaw, sidekicks to the head, and groin strikes enter the mind isn't it?  The bad thing is you probably had enough knowledge to kill the guy with one strike and might not have even known you possessed that knowledge, i.e., a certain strike that can actually kill.


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## Archangel M (Jul 23, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old. Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young. There are exceptions I suppose.


 
It would be like a freshman dating a senior. Like you, I would have to take those on a case by case basis. 2-3 year differences can be much different when comparing 17-20 year olds vs. 27-30 year olds.


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## Archangel M (Jul 23, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy). She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind). So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.
> 
> I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history. Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.


 
A lot (legally) can depend on your states laws regarding age of consent and statutory rape law.


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## DavidCC (Jul 23, 2008)

Archangel M said:


> A lot (legally) can depend on your states laws regarding age of consent and statutory rape law.


 
If he had been 19 I'd have called the cops.  I would have hit that guy so hard he would wake up with psychic powers.


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

DavidCC said:


> If he had been 19 I'd have called the cops. I would have hit that guy so hard he would wake up with psychic powers.


 A near-death experience!


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## theletch1 (Jul 23, 2008)

CuongNhuka said:


> In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19.
> 
> Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.


As I understand it (Va has a law very similar) the 2 year age difference is a loophole for couples where in one of them would turn 18 (adult) and the other would still be 17 ("child).  If the couple had already been dating for a while and these birthdays took place a good couple could conceivably be doing something illegal for a few months.  Go out beyond the two year spread and we get into statutory rape and even child molestation.  The law isn't "dumb" it's actually one that was thought out a little instead of just tossing a blanket statement on the entire deal and saying 18 is the cut off.  Keeps 30 something guys from saying "Hey, she's over the age of consent I can do it if I want".


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## Kacey (Jul 23, 2008)

At this point, I would be less concerned about the age difference between J and S, and more concerned about S's attitude toward guns and apparent lack of understanding of property laws.  Does your cell phone have a camera?  Every time you catch him on your property, or see evidence of his presence (like the paintball stuff) take a picture.  Keep a file.  Contact the police every time you see him on your property; then _they_ have to keep a file as well.  When you eventually have a face off with him (and I can't imagine you won't) you will have a record of his behavior - he trespasses on your property, he vandalizes your property, and he's been reported to point guns at people and use them on others' property.  Warn him off every time you see him or signs he's been there, and document the warnings as well.  Then when you have to throw him out bodily, you'll have a body of evidence (both your own file and the police file) of the number of times and ways you attempted to get rid of him some other way.


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## Lynne (Jul 23, 2008)

Kacey said:


> At this point, I would be less concerned about the age difference between J and S, and more concerned about S's attitude toward guns and apparent lack of understanding of property laws. Does your cell phone have a camera? Every time you catch him on your property, or see evidence of his presence (like the paintball stuff) take a picture. Keep a file. Contact the police every time you see him on your property; then _they_ have to keep a file as well. When you eventually have a face off with him (and I can't imagine you won't) you will have a record of his behavior - he trespasses on your property, he vandalizes your property, and he's been reported to point guns at people and use them on others' property. Warn him off every time you see him or signs he's been there, and document the warnings as well. Then when you have to throw him out bodily, you'll have a body of evidence (both your own file and the police file) of the number of times and ways you attempted to get rid of him some other way.


 My daughter's cell has a camera and that's a very good idea.  My husband saw him on our property the other day (at the time, he didn't know who it was).  He did see that the landlord's children were with him (God knows why they let their little ones wander over an acre away into the woods with a 21 year old guy) and thought it was an uncle or something. so he didn't say anything.  He let it slide.  But now we know all of this stuff.  Gee.

Oh, that the girl invited my daughter to a threesome is what really peeved me.  I wanted to kill something.  But I called the State Police instead.


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## Kacey (Jul 23, 2008)

Lynne said:


> Oh, that the girl invited my daughter to a threesome is what really peeved me.  I wanted to kill something.  But I called the State Police instead.



I understand your sentiment completely... but I think you made a wiser choice calling the Police.


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## jks9199 (Jul 23, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> As I understand it (Va has a law very similar) the 2 year age difference is a loophole for couples where in one of them would turn 18 (adult) and the other would still be 17 ("child).  If the couple had already been dating for a while and these birthdays took place a good couple could conceivably be doing something illegal for a few months.  Go out beyond the two year spread and we get into statutory rape and even child molestation.  The law isn't "dumb" it's actually one that was thought out a little instead of just tossing a blanket statement on the entire deal and saying 18 is the cut off.  Keeps 30 something guys from saying "Hey, she's over the age of consent I can do it if I want".


Virginia laws on sex offenses are very, very complicated.  There are actually 3 different laws (stat rape, carnal knowledge, and contributing to the delinquincy), each covering particular age ranges, and that's before you get into things like subsequent marriage or specific acts.

The laws are a "best attempt" to answer a very complicated issue.  It's quite possible, for example for two kids separated by barely over two years to be in the same grade, or only a single grade apart.  A simple mathematical calculation can't assess maturity -- physical or emotional.  Recognizing that, the legislature does their best to protect everyone, but there's just no perfect solution.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 23, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old.  Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young.  There are exceptions I suppose.




I would agree that in general I never would think well of the guy who was 20 and dated a 17 year old. Unless it happened to me.  I was 20, got introduced by her cousin as I knew the family. I was in college, and so was she. I assumed she was 18 as her male cousin and her family never said anything when I was asked how old was I. I went out with her a couple of times (* Nothing happened *) before I found out about her age. I was in shock over the information. She was/is smart (* with the one lacking point of dating me  *) and she was mature. We got along well and we went out on a few dates. 

But I think the key here is that we both on college with jobs and getting good grades. We did not attack neighbors etcetera as described here.

I agree with Kacey, the age factor should not be as much an issue (* It can be an issue still just not as much as *) as the behavior of those that you have described. 


Thanks


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## CuongNhuka (Jul 23, 2008)

theletch1 said:


> As I understand it (Va has a law very similar) the 2 year age difference is a loophole for couples where in one of them would turn 18 (adult) and the other would still be 17 ("child). If the couple had already been dating for a while and these birthdays took place a good couple could conceivably be doing something illegal for a few months. Go out beyond the two year spread and we get into statutory rape and even child molestation. The law isn't "dumb" it's actually one that was thought out a little instead of just tossing a blanket statement on the entire deal and saying 18 is the cut off. Keeps 30 something guys from saying "Hey, she's over the age of consent I can do it if I want".


 
Makes more sense when it's put that way. I didn't have it explained to me as a 'two year diff' thing.


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## Lynne (Oct 3, 2008)

Haven't heard much out of the young lady's boyfriend and I haven't seen him slumping around.

However, the landlord's 23-year-old son lives in an apartment on the second floor.  That side of the house faces our home.  Occasionally, he has friends over and they get a little loud.  Friends have the thumping bass in their cars that makes our entire house vibrate.  Not too bad though  The noise disturbances are usually short-lived.  No reason to complain really.  Until last Saturday.  I heard a woman screaming.  So, yes I listened to decide if I needed to call 911.  Well, she was extremely intoxicated and the screaming was anger, "F" this, "F" that, "F" you.  She became more agigated and started to get louder and so did the son of the landlord.  Obviously, they were outside or so I thought.  Now, I'm not so sure.  Some people's voices really carry.  Mind you, we are an acre away in distance.

After 40 minutes of this nonsense (it started around 11:00 pm), it sounded like they were becoming more and more angry.  I called 911 and reported the domestic disturbance.

Oh, great.  They have a police scanner.  I heard the woman scream (I do mean scream), "F-ing police!  Yeah, I'm drunk and I've smoked a few joints, too!  F you!"  Then, it got a little quieter, then a lot quieter.  I supposed the police would just think I was troublemaker or a nutcase.  My daughter confirmed that all the families over there have police scanners.

About 20 minutes after I called, I heard some tires squall a little.  Police had arrived with their headlights off and done a u-turn in front of my house.  They must have parked in front of the house or in their driveway.  About 10 minutes later, the woman started screaming again.  Two policemen went up the steps and knocked on the door.  I could hear the woman screaming and yelling at them with the apartment door closed (a window may have been open).  Two more policemen arrived.  I guess 40 minutes went by.  They were searching the kitchen as one could see flashlights moving around (poor lighting in there for some reason).  I heard, "You have the right to remain silent" and saw that two people were handcuffed and arrested.

After that, the landlord came up and started yelling at his son and apparently lots of other people.  People started filing out, maybe 10 or so.

We thought the son had been evicted but apparently the father made him move some of his crap off of the property.  All night they were banging and stuff.  The son collects junk cars like wrecked fart cans - Mitsubishis, Eclipses.

Luckily, we have some trees between us and them.  Unfortunately, the trees are dying from something.  We don't have them $$$$ of dollars it would take to put up a good fence.

I kind of thought maybe I should have called the father instead of the police. But I don't know why two people were arrested either.  It could have been anything and they might have gotten violent with the father.  Who knows?


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

I wouldn't feel bad about calling the police.  Clearly something was going down that you don't need next door to you.  

Is it possible to open up a good neighbor conversation with the father?


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## Lynne (Oct 3, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> I wouldn't feel bad about calling the police. Clearly something was going down that you don't need next door to you.
> 
> Is it possible to open up a good neighbor conversation with the father?


We've always had good relations with the father.  My husband had spoken with the father about the young lady's boyfriend wandering onto our property.  My husband was very nice about it and it was appreciated.  Later, the father spoke to my husband and said he had spoken with the boyfriend.  Apparently, the boyfriend had moved in without permission, etc, and was talked to about that as well as trespassing. So, we do feel comfortable approaching him if there is a problem. The father does have a temper though, so we are very careful.

We haven't complained about all the equipment (like bulldozers, old lawnmowers and such), empty trailers ands sheds, and trashed out cars on his property.  We live in a rural area and if you can't see trash from the road, then you're ok.  However, he's had as many as 15 vehicles in his front yard.  One can see a lot of the crap from the road but we don't complain because he's a pretty nice guy.  The rest of us have nice farmhouses and well-kept lawns and so forth.  Our properties are not zoned for multiple family dwellings at a single address either.  I believe he has four different families at that property.  We let it go.  The family has been here for a long time, too.  

I don't know much about police procedure and don't know if they would have arrested someone for disorderly conduct (like yelling and cursing at a police officer) or if there were drugs involved.  In this case, it may have been both.

None of the people living on that property are too swift.  They just aren't very bright.  The landlord's girlfriend told my daughter that she almost shot me twice while she was hunting.  Number One, I was on my own property walking my dog so what the heck was she doing hunting on my property? And she almost mistook me for a deer TWICE?   Needless to say, we don't go near the back of our property during hunting season.

The young lady that lives in the trailer with her parents (she's 17 with one child and has another on the way), had told my daughter she couldn't wait until my daughter was driving so she could driver her to her uncle's meth lab.  She thought her uncle having a meth lab was sooo coooool.

The county we live in is widely agricultural.  My husband is an engineer, works in a different county.  Our county has the most meth labs of any county in NY state.  In my naivete, I was surprised.  It's such a quiet place - in many ways, the perfect place to raise children...as long as you manage to stay away from the redneck drug traffickers.


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## Lynne (Oct 3, 2008)

*New York sheriff vows crackdown on meth labs*


The new New York sheriff of a rural upstate county said his department will make closing down clandestine drug labs a top priority. 

Gary Howard is taking charge of the Tioga County, New York Sheriff's Department after working more than 25 years for the agency. 

Over the past five years, about two-dozen meth labs in the county have been shut down by police. New York authorities said that's more than any other county in New York state. 

Howard said despite the success in putting the operations out of business, the problem isn't going away. 

The sheriff told a Binghamton radio station, WNBF that the growth of meth labs isn't "slowing down any" and is likely to increase. 

Howard said his department is working with New York state police and federal Drug Enforcement Administration investigators in New York and Pennsylvania to coordinate efforts to deal with the meth production problem.


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## shesulsa (Oct 3, 2008)

I think, being in the country, meth labs are probably less obvious. There are folks in Washington and Oregon who tan their own leather, create fiberglass forms, weld ... and any number of other things you need chemicals for. I think the smell mostly dissipates before reaching knowing noses and if it doesn't, no one really thinks anything about it.

Funny, isn't it? Some folks move TO the country to get away from problems, not realizing that living in the country has it's OWN problems. LOL!

Well, I'm glad you have a good relationship with the father.  And it's really good of you to look the other way on the code violations - that could be an ace up your sleeve if played right.

I hope things look up for them and for you.


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## jks9199 (Oct 3, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I kind of thought maybe I should have called the father instead of the police. But I don't know why two people were arrested either.  It could have been anything and they might have gotten violent with the father.  Who knows?



You did the right thing.  You didn't know if or when that fight would have escalated to violence, with someone getting hurt.  YOU are not equiped nor authorized to intervene yourself, as a general rule.  Call the cops, let them handle it.  That's even what I tend to do at home; call the cops, let the guys and gals who are on the clock and have all their equipment with them take care of problems.  The only general exception is if I believe that there's an immediate threat to life or limb if I do not intervene myself.


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## Mimir (Oct 3, 2008)

Lynne said:


> I kind of thought maybe I should have called the father instead of the police. But I don't know why two people were arrested either. It could have been anything and they might have gotten violent with the father. Who knows?


 
That late at night and with it going on that long, the only way you were likely going to get some peace was to do what you did - call in the authorities.  The fact that some of them were arrested only proves the point.

From reading this thread, I think you have handled the situation in the best manner you possibly could.  I really hope that the situation calms down and that your neighbors clean up their collective acts.


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## Lynne (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks for the support everyone.  I know I did the right thing.  I know police dislike answering these kinds of calls because things can get out-of-hand fast.

It's none of my business, but the 17 year-old-girl, "J," is being dropped off by males near the home, but not in front of the home.  I noticed this because I walk my dog at night.  Once she was dropped off in front of our side yard and walked the rest of the way home.  Another time she was dropped off at the high school which is about a quarter of a mile away.  The other night, she was standing in a neighbor's driveway, in the dark, text messaging.  It looked like she was waiting for someone to pick her up.

"J" had an infant at home and another on the way.  Her parents were second shift, from 4:00 pm - 12:00 pm.  I don't know if she is hooking or what.  I wonder where the baby is when she leaves.

I do worry about the girl as she used to be a friend of my daughter's.


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## Drac (Oct 7, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> From what you've posted, it's unclear, but it's very possible that many laws may have been violated. At the very least, it appears that a 20 year old is engaging in sexual activity with a 16 year old -- and soliciting sexual acts from another child (at 17, your daughter is, in most states, still a minor). I suggest you contact your local police department or sheriff's office, and speak directly with a detective investigating such offenses.


 
He beat me to posting it..


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