# Gracie Academy Online Training and Testing?



## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 13, 2009)

Okay video can be a tool to use in conjunction with proper hands on instruction but video testing online?  That is not some thing I can support!
It is sad to see this happen.

https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/home_view.aspx?c=63QJ4TGT7X&n=28

Having said that I have always enjoyed the free Gracie Insider videos but....... online testing with this new program.


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## KempoGuy06 (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Okay video can be a tool to use in conjunction with proper hands on instruction but video testing online?  That is not some thing I can support!
> It is sad to see this happen.
> 
> https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/home_view.aspx?c=63QJ4TGT7X&n=28
> ...


i agree this is wrong! I cant believe it has gone to this

B


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## punisher73 (Mar 13, 2009)

I'm not sure.  I looked at the site but did not see what the testing procedure actually is.  What if it was a live sparring session to apply the techniques?  I would assume that they are good enough to be able to tell if you have properly learned the material or not based on the video.

Just playing devil's advocate.  It does make me wonder though since Helio died that this is now in place and wasn't before.  Was it something in the works, or was it something that wasn't approved of before?


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## LordOfWu (Mar 13, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> I'm not sure.  I looked at the site but did not see what the testing procedure actually is.  What if it was a live sparring session to apply the techniques?  I would assume that they are good enough to be able to tell if you have properly learned the material or not based on the video.



Sadly it's  not a live sparring session in front of a Gracie instructor:

"upload your belt qualification videos when it comes time to test. By viewing each of the belt qualification videos you submit, we will be able to determine your eligibility for promotion and monitor your progress through each segment of the curriculum."

I don't have a login to get to any more specific details, but this is a sad day, IMHO


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## Omar B (Mar 13, 2009)

This is damn stupid.  What's next, long distance Kama Sutra correspondence course?

This is not Star Trek, when the holo-deck is real sure why not, till then quit being stupid.


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## Nolerama (Mar 13, 2009)

Eh... It'll show on the mat if it's effective or not.

I mean, I've taken online courses in college and in some cases, I felt that if I was left with subject matter and my own devices, I was able to retain more information and become more innovative in my thinking pertaining to that subject matter.

However, during class meet-ups or study group, I did notice some slackers that thought they were getting an easy A, but never passed. I see the same mentality here: the ones going online for their belt will have so much more to prove to the BJJ community in competition and even amongst friends.

There's no lying here. Your status will quickly become questioned once someone from another gym or school finds out you're parading as "Gracie Black Belt" and can't pony up the technique or functional skill.


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## Xue Sheng (Mar 13, 2009)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Okay video can be a tool to use in conjunction with proper hands on instruction but video testing online? That is not some thing I can support!
> It is sad to see this happen.
> 
> https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/home_view.aspx?c=63QJ4TGT7X&n=28
> ...


 
I am with you Brian.

I have seen a rather reputable CMA figure doing much the same recently and I was wholly unimpressed by that as well


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## BrandonLucas (Mar 13, 2009)

Nolerama said:


> Eh... It'll show on the mat if it's effective or not.
> 
> I mean, I've taken online courses in college and in some cases, I felt that if I was left with subject matter and my own devices, I was able to retain more information and become more innovative in my thinking pertaining to that subject matter.
> 
> ...


 
That makes sense to a degree.  But what happens when you fail a testing and don't understand why?  How are they going to explain what needs to be worked on?

I don't know how anyone else is, but I don't think I would be able to fully grasp the concept of what I would need to correct over emails.


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## JadeDragon3 (Mar 13, 2009)

You mean you guys haven't realized by now that the Gracie's are greedy and want to make as much money off of thier name and BJJ as they can.  Snap back to reality guys/gals.  It's all about the Benjamins.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Mar 13, 2009)

*Now this is a long time back*.....  However I can remember when I was training regularly at a certain Gracie Jiujitsu Academy that eventually moved over to a Caique Academy.  The standards were impeccably high and it was a lot of fun when some one new came in and well even more fun if they had taught themselves or learned from some videos.  In other words they were pretty darn easy to tap because of poor technique.  I am sure this remains the same but we see more and more people going for the fast cash and willing to promote people via online training.


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## Flying Crane (Mar 13, 2009)

everyone else has already sold out.  Why not the Gracies too?

Empire building can be fun.


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## matt.m (Mar 13, 2009)

Well, ya know I am not sure really what to say.  I see Nolerama's point.  I took online university courses and I had to work harder for those than I did in most in class courses.

I have seen a ton of the "Send in the DVD of you doing technique for verification."  I don't know, it just takes the whole instructor/student dynamic out of the M.A.'s that I think are important.


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## jks9199 (Mar 13, 2009)

punisher73 said:


> I'm not sure.  I looked at the site but did not see what the testing procedure actually is.  What if it was a live sparring session to apply the techniques?  I would assume that they are good enough to be able to tell if you have properly learned the material or not based on the video.
> 
> Just playing devil's advocate.  It does make me wonder though since Helio died that this is now in place and wasn't before.  Was it something in the works, or was it something that wasn't approved of before?


OK... but who do you spar/roll with?  My understanding of the more traditional ranking is that if a white belt is consistently beating/competing on an even foot with blue belts, they get the blue belt.  And so on...  

So, I sign up for my video Gracie Black Belt program.  I'm not training with a local BJJ club...  maybe there's not even an accredited one in the area.  What do I do; wander into the local high school during wrestling season and try to get permission to work with them?  How do you assess the opponent via video?

I don't have a problem with the lessons on video, especially as an aid to students enrolled in a BJJ program.  But video testing?  Nope.


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## Nolerama (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't think video testing is the way to go. At least have the student, who's probably paying a ton of money for the online courses anyway, come to  regional location and test for the belt. If they don't get it, they don't get it. Place a huge disclaimer that says: The online BJJ Academy does not guarantee advancement in Gracie Jiu Jitsu.


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## jarrod (Mar 13, 2009)

eh, bound to happen.  some people will benefit from it, most people will just lose money.  but the gracies won't!

jf


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## searcher (Mar 15, 2009)

Online belt testing and training? :barf:   I am so all over this.   This will truly make me a keyborad warrior, master, uber-soke that I have always dreamed about.


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## skatatika (Mar 27, 2009)

I've heard about that before, so i decided to have a look and registered. The whole thing doesn't look right to me.
For your belt evaluation you first have to answer these questions in an online form:
"How long have you been studying Gracie Jiu-Jitsu? " 
"Have you learned Gracie or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from other sources? If so, please explain:"
"Do you practice any other martial arts? If so, please explain which ones and for how long:"
"Of all the techniques in the course, which did you find the most challenging to perfect?"
"Of all the techniques in the course, which was your favorite?"

Then you upload videos of the required techniques done with a partner, and then, of course, you pay.

That may be a way to evaluate someone who is practicing BJJ with an instructor who doesn't have the right to promote him - someone trying to reach a blue belt while traing with a blue belt teacher and so on.
But learning from videos you once again have to *pay for* is just ridiculous


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## SA_BJJ (Apr 2, 2009)

Just because you learned from videos doesnt make the instruction worthless.  Evan Tanner was the former UFC Middleweight Champ learned to grapple exclusively from videos.  Im not saying online testing is the way to go, but if you can learn that way then more power to you!


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## Brian Jones (Apr 3, 2009)

I think there is some miscommunication. Once you pay for a lesson you have it and can go back and view it whenever you wish. You can test via video up through Brown. Your Black Belt test is in person. I have looked at afew lessons and they are pretty good. As a thought you don't have to be promoted. You cna pcik and choose, if you wish techniques you want and just pay for those I supposse.  It could theoretically make for a nice additional video library.  At 8 bucks a lesson that's not terribly expensive.


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## Thems Fighting Words (Apr 3, 2009)

Alright, I'm confused. Is this supplemental training taken alongside formal class training as per the quote:_ "In the past, we presented video lessons, computer-based training, and online techniques in an effort to provide supplemental knowledge to people who already trained at a school of martial arts."_? Or is it a stand alone product? 
I'm not a BJJ practitioner myself but I just can't see any style, especially a grapple intensive style like BJJ, be trained to *Black Belt* level without an instructor physically present and an assortment of other practitioners around to train against. Then there's the issue of whether this course allows someone to compete in official BJJ contests.


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## Brian Jones (Apr 4, 2009)

it could be used as a supplemental product, but my understanding is it's a stand alone curriculum. You do need a partner thought, as far as I can tell.

Brian Jones


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## cooker1 (Jun 13, 2009)

It seems like a natural progression. I would think it would be a good idea to travel to an instructor to assess competancy instead of a video though.


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## LuckyKBoxer (Jun 13, 2009)

The Gracie's are really smart when it comes to marketing and making money of their ideas.

Their combatives course is an overpriced rip off, but they are marketing off of their name while they can.

Fact of the matter is with so many people diving headfirst into the art over the last 16 years many of todays innovators are not Gracies....
Look at the big tournament results, and placings..

The art is fantastic, the Gracies are fantastic, but its becomming apparant that there are incredible practitioners out there with different last names, and they are making their names heard in the marketplace.

I have not checked out the process as of yet, but I know as someone who practices I can watch someone roll with another person and get a good ideal of their skill level. I would imagine the Gracies have me beat many times over in the ability to assess a persons abilities... I am curious what rank they grade up to via video... if its only purple or so I dont think its a big deal... if they start doing it for Black belt then I think its probably an bunk deal.


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## seasoned (Jun 14, 2009)

You can learn technique on line, but not the feeling that goes into doing that technique. Case in point, a lot of people go to collage and get a degree in something, only to find they are of no value to an employer until they land a job and get their feet wet. Nothing beats hand on.


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## Doc (Jun 15, 2009)

Flying Crane said:


> everyone else has already sold out.  Why not the Gracies too?
> 
> Empire building can be fun.



Not everybody.


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## lklawson (Jun 15, 2009)

Remote learning and instruction is becoming much more viable and is generating a lot more interest.  It's particularly interesting for arts which are still niche or difficult to find in some areas.  WMA is becoming increasingly interested in this possibility.  However, last I heard, no one in the community was considering it for TESTING.  The idea floated so far is to have students be able to receive instant live feedback and "attend" live webinars via video feed.

This idea of testing by video reminds me of the BB Mag adverts from the 80's.  "Earn your Black Belt by mail, we'll send you our VHS instruction (for only $99.99) and you video tape yourself and send it back to us ($99.99 per test) for grading.  Only took in the gullible.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## matt.m (Jun 15, 2009)

From what I understand from a friend it is for the Gracie Combatives system only. I am not 100 percent sure but how could someone not have a good martial art resume complete with competition etc. and become a black belt?

I mean gee, I have a dan in judo so can I just send off for one in karate evedn though I couldn't tell you anything about the art but there have been movies with the word "Karate" in the title?:flammad:


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2009)

matt.m said:


> From what I understand from a friend it is for the Gracie Combatives system only. I am not 100 percent sure but how could someone not have a good martial art resume complete with competition etc. and become a black belt?
> 
> I mean gee, I have a dan in judo so can I just send off for one in karate evedn though I couldn't tell you anything about the art but there have been movies with the word "Karate" in the title?:flammad:


 
I could have been a brown belt in Judo a while back and I was solid CMA at the time. A Judo school wanted me to teach there and needed to have me covered by their insurance which also meant joining their organization. This would have amounted to a brown belt and I know not of Judo, but I had trained jujitsu over 10 years prior to that... I refused.


And now back to the post

Online training is, IMO, bogus and all about $$$


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## Nolerama (Jun 15, 2009)

I checked it out, and it offers some solid training. They stress on having training partners, and WANT you to meet up with other people in your area to train.

I see nothing wrong with that.

After inspection, I think it's a good thing, but I'd rather train with my people and if I come across some black belt along the way who wants to give me a belt, then so be it.

Ranking isn't as much of an issue as performance and fuctionality.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jun 15, 2009)

I call B.S. on it. I got my blue belt from the Torrance Academy beofre the first UFC, hung out and trained with them and at Ricksons during and a bit after, and got awarded a purple belt from one of their competitors.

Point o finterest: The guy who gave me the purple belt did so, because I was embarrassing his brown belts by owning them while wearing a blue belt. I could not catch the purple belts at the Gracie Academy as easily as I was catching this guys browns.

On the mat, a very identifiable pecking order becomes apparent, very shortly. You all know who can take whom, and how...the strengths and weaknesses. During class, the instructor is constantly rolling in with you, and yelling corrections...or seeing osmeone do something that causes him to stop class, make a correction, demo the importance of it strategically, clean it up, then resume grappling. Can't do that over the internet.

I am old and beat up now, and I still whoop on guys 20 years younger than I, and several ranks higher. And here's the problem: I am not that good; they are that bad. Standards have dropped, with the public going to where-ever the ranks and accolades are easiest to obtain.

If I ever get back into BJJ seriously, it's going to be at Ricksons school, or in a garage with one of his old black belts from bacck in the day. A place where technique and skill rules, and the color on your waist is matched by the bruises, mat burns, cauliflower ears, and blood on your gi. The rest is commercial prostitution, trading legacy and pride for a house payment.


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## celtic_crippler (Jun 15, 2009)

A man gotta eat.


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