# Jiu Jitsu



## Josephk (Jul 19, 2004)

i'm considering taking up jiujitsu, and i'd like some more info on it, so could anybody give me an overview of what it includes? i know theres joint locks and throws etc. but is that mostly all it is about? or a link to a good website would be appreciated, thanks in advance if anybody replies.


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## Kempojujutsu (Jul 19, 2004)

There are many types of jujutsu styles. Tell us what type you are considering.


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## Josephk (Jul 20, 2004)

i don't know what type, that's one of the things i want to look into. i know i want to do japanese jiujitsu though, not brazilian.


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## spatulahunter (Jul 20, 2004)

Josephk said:
			
		

> i don't know what type, that's one of the things i want to look into. i know i want to do japanese jiujitsu though, not brazilian.



one thing  i know is that you will never find japanese jiujitsu, (thats the brazilian spelling heh). The styles that i do (as you can see in my signature) are daito ryu and hakko ryu jujutsu. Both are very similar arts, in fact hakko ryu came from daito ryu. 
If you want something that is very traditional then i would say that daito ryu may be a good place to start. The art is over a thousand years old and is a true samurai fighting art, which is actually the reason that hakko ryu and aikido were formed. The founders of both arts were students of daito ryu who realized that you couldnt finish a fight by loping off your opponenets head so they came up with their own arts so they could create modern versions that respected their root art.
I also know that there are some other very good classical jujutsus out there im just not very familiar with them.


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## Zujitsuka (Jul 20, 2004)

Josephk said:
			
		

> i'm considering taking up jiujitsu, and i'd like some more info on it, so could anybody give me an overview of what it includes? i know theres joint locks and throws etc. but is that mostly all it is about? or a link to a good website would be appreciated, thanks in advance if anybody replies.



Visit this site for a general overview, http://www.ajjf.org/faq.html


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## Josephk (Jul 20, 2004)

thanks for the replies, i know there's a couple of schools quite near me, but i don't know what styles they are.  i always wondered why people spelled it in different ways, now i know, thanks hehe


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## bignick (Aug 13, 2004)

Well to confuse you a bit more on the naming...jujutsu has is also now called taihojutsu or taijutsu..I study Kaisho Goshin Budo Jujutsu/Taiho jutsu...taiho jutsu or tai jutsu translates basically as body art or body techniques....basically the differnce is that jujutso studied by the police in japan is called taiho jutsu..a good reference on the subject is Darrell Craig's book...Japan's Ultimate Martial Art: Jujitsu Before 1882.  Jujitsu/Jujutsu, however it's spelled if studied in a good school is a very complete art...and encompasses a lot of different aspects...inlcuding striking, joint locks, throws, pressure points and such...good luck...and hope you enjoy it


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## Mekugi (Aug 16, 2004)

Hi!

Jujutsu is a term that came into colloquial use in Japan during the Edo period. In the following Meiji era, it spread outside of Japan and sometimes the term even "stuck" in place of what was really Kodokan Judo. So what we may call "Jujutsu" is technically not "jujutsu" at all. Confusing? Sound like a gray area? Yes it is confusing and a gray area and it's all in the name that the ryu gave it.

Now, that being said, there are more words used to describe "jujutsu" in Japanese martial arts than there are differences between them. That is to say, you'll find terms like taijutsu (BTW, Taihojutsu is modern and is seperate from TAIjutsu), kumi uchi, yawara, kempo (believe it or not), koshi no mawari and judo (an older word, later borrowed for Kodokan Judo) within many Japanese martial arts. These terms are all talking about what we in the West would call Jujutsu. Each school or "ryu" have named their "unarmed" techniques in a way that they felt was appropriate, so you have various names. That's that. 

Joseph, depending on your location you may not be able to find "Japanese Jujutsu" so you may want to consider Judo for starters. It will introduce you to many solid principles that you may find useful in the future. Danzan Ryu Jujutsu enjoys a wide coverage in the United States as well as Small Circle Jujutsu. You may want to look around and see if you can find a place near you that teaches them.

Always, 

-Russ


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## spatulahunter (Aug 16, 2004)

Mekugi said:
			
		

> Hi!
> 
> Jujutsu is a term that came into colloquial use in Japan during the Edo period. In the following Meiji era, it spread outside of Japan and sometimes the term even "stuck" in place of what was really Kodokan Judo. So what we may call "Jujutsu" is technically not "jujutsu" at all. Confusing? Sound like a gray area? Yes it is confusing and a gray area and it's all in the name that the ryu gave it.
> 
> ...



Which jujutsus are you saying are not jujutsu at all?

 I am a student of daito ryu jujutsu which is most certainly a jujutsu that predated judo by a very long time. 
Daito ryu jujutsu was the fighting system of General yoshimitsu shinra saburo minamoto and was passed down through his family for many generations. 

In fact the first generally acknowledged japanese grappling system was developed by prince teijun fujiwara who was a son of the 56th emperor of japan Seiwa Fujiwara (850-880ad). His son was given the name minamoto. His descendents were the Seiwa Genji and their fighting helped the minamoto clan rise to become the most powerful warriors in all of japan.

There is much more history and lineage to come from this that goes through in depth to explain how daitoryu came to where it is today and how hakko ryu formed from Daito ryu. I will happily post this information if anyone is interested. I simply wanted to let people know that both daito ryu jujutsu and hakko ryu jujutsu are very authentic jujutsus and didnt pull their roots from judo (not that judo is bad because its a good art, i just wouldnt call it authentic jujutsu).

Also if you could elaborate on Danzan Ryu jujutsu i am interested to learn about this art as well because although i am a student of hakko ryu and daito ryu i am not familiar with many other real jujutsus.


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## bignick (Aug 16, 2004)

judo was derived from jujitsu...when asked to explain the difference, if they have an idea people say, "Jigoro Kano took out the dangerous techniques to make judo safer"...actually, if you've ever practiced judo for a period of time you may have run across the term, "terminal judo"...basically taking judo techniques to an almost lethal level..mostly by executing a throw very hard and rotating in the air to land on your opponent(osoto makikomi is a good example). Also, classical judo is very similar to jujutsu...what Kano Sensei did, and what people mean by "making it safer"...is he removed the the throws and techniques that were ineffective and sometimes more of a danger to tori than to uke...and introduced a "sporting spirit" so that you could compete without have to set your affairs in order in case you died during the match...you tend to get alot better if you stay alive and can continue practicing...as for it being authentic "jujutsu"...up until the the 30's it was still referred to as Kano Jujitsu...but i must agree that most judo today has very little in common with jujutsu....even classical...aka non-sport styles still are not authentic jujutsu because the theory and application of the techniques...not so much the techniques themselves...are different


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## Mekugi (Aug 17, 2004)

spatulahunter said:
			
		

> Which jujutsus are you saying are not jujutsu at all?


The ones that don't use jujutsu as a formal name but are called jujutsu regardless of the fact they do not use that term. Sosuishiryu and Takeuchi ryu as examples. They get the "lump sum" effect, simply out of ease of using the word Jujutsu.



			
				spatulahunter said:
			
		

> I am a student of daito ryu jujutsu which is most certainly a jujutsu that predated judo by a very long time.
> Daito ryu jujutsu was the fighting system of General yoshimitsu shinra saburo minamoto and was passed down through his family for many generations.
> 
> In fact the first generally acknowledged japanese grappling system was developed by prince teijun fujiwara who was a son of the 56th emperor of japan Seiwa Fujiwara (850-880ad). His son was given the name minamoto. His descendents were the Seiwa Genji and their fighting helped the minamoto clan rise to become the most powerful warriors in all of japan.


Unfortunately and sadly, nothing regarding Daito Ryu can be "traced solidly" past Takeda Sokaku, from what I hear.
Furthermore he and many present day practicioners call this stuff _Aikijujutsu_ or simply _Aikijutsu_ as a formal name. 



			
				spatulahunter said:
			
		

> Also if you could elaborate on Danzan Ryu jujutsu i am interested to learn about this art as well because although i am a student of hakko ryu and daito ryu i am not familiar with many other real jujutsus.


Here is a great page! http://www.danzan.com/ Tons of info by mister Arrington. Great stuff.


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## Shogun (Aug 17, 2004)

> i just wouldnt call it authentic jujutsu


Most wouldn't, however, what we are refering to is Kodokan Judo. Their is a style of Koryu Jujutsu from the 1500's called "Judo".


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## bignick (Aug 17, 2004)

if were gonna be talking about what's authentic jujitsu and whats not...i think we need a working definition... 

what would you call "authentic jujitsu"


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## Ceicei (Aug 17, 2004)

bignick said:
			
		

> if were gonna be talking about what's authentic jujitsu and whats not...i think we need a working definition...
> 
> what would you call "authentic jujitsu"


If they're primarily grappling, isn't that authentic enough? We might as well ask "what isn't authentic?" Perhaps the main question should be "what is the original?"

- Ceicei


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## Mekugi (Aug 17, 2004)

Shogun said:
			
		

> Most wouldn't, however, what we are refering to is Kodokan Judo. Their is a style of Koryu Jujutsu from the 1500's called "Judo".


Jikishin Ryu and Kito ryu used the word pre-Kodokan. Not during the 16th century, though.

The kodokan released some research about it in 1999, which is copyrighted and compiled by Yoshiaki Todi & Naoki Murata:



> A Study on the Origin of the name "Judo"
> By: Yoshiaki Todo (Tsukuba University) and Naoki Murata (Kodokan Judo Institute)
> 
> Abstract
> ...





			
				bignick said:
			
		

> if were gonna be talking about what's authentic jujitsu and whats not...i think we need a working definition...
> 
> what would you call "authentic jujitsu"


I technically wouldn't use the wprd authentic, but if I did I would use quotations as you have. The reason for me is that "authenticity" doesn't actually describe the nature of the elements were hinting at; I would try to say "modern" and "old" give the circumstance. "Old would seem to be the first notion of the idea, but would leave Sumo out, which is the oldest of them all.


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## bignick (Aug 17, 2004)

Ceicei said:
			
		

> If they're primarily grappling, isn't that authentic enough?



actually..jujutsu focuses...at least in my experience...just as much on striking as on grappling...if you were talking about primarily grappling...you'd probably be referring to judo...


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## Mekugi (Aug 17, 2004)

There are weapons used as well. "Unarmed" 



			
				bignick said:
			
		

> actually..jujutsu focuses...at least in my experience...just as much on striking as on grappling...if you were talking about primarily grappling...you'd probably be referring to judo...


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## Ceicei (Aug 17, 2004)

bignick said:
			
		

> actually..jujutsu focuses...at least in my experience...just as much on striking as on grappling...if you were talking about primarily grappling...you'd probably be referring to judo...


Well, judo did originate from jujitsu.  This point has already been made by someone else. 

- Ceicei


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## bignick (Aug 18, 2004)

yes...and orange juice used to be oranges...but it isn't anymore.....still tastes just as good...but it's different


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## XkempoX (Aug 18, 2004)

Josephk said:
			
		

> i'm considering taking up jiujitsu, and i'd like some more info on it, so could anybody give me an overview of what it includes? i know theres joint locks and throws etc. but is that mostly all it is about? or a link to a good website would be appreciated, thanks in advance if anybody replies.


Since I don't know where you live, check this website where I used to train.

www.miyake-shukokai.com/jujitsu.htm


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## Kempojujutsu (Aug 18, 2004)

www.miyake-shukokai.com/jujitsu.htm

It says page cannot be found?


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## XkempoX (Aug 20, 2004)

Sorry about that... Just go to the website instead - www.miyake-shukokai.com and go to arts and click jujitsu.


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