# Tony Jaa's authenticity/experience



## Ric Flair

I've always wondered, has Tony Jaa ever truly applied his skills in the streets while growing up???  Let alone has he been in enough Muay Thai ring fights???

Anyone have any videos or anything of living proof???

Or is TOny Jaa just another good acrobat and actor????????


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## AdrenalineJunky

I think Damian's probably best fit to answer this question. All I know is what's posted around the net, which seems to change almost every time I look at it. I think Damian's actually worked with the guy. 

Either way, he still makes good movies.


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## Damian Mavis

No he has no ring fight experience. He's a gymnast and martial artist and actor.  His reflexes were very sharp though, when we were practicing I threw my kick too fast and he panicked and shielded instead of the routine we were supposed to do.  He probably has alot of yahoos throwing kicks too hard at him when practicing the choreography so he stays sharp heh.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand


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## Ric Flair

Say Damian, that kind of confuses me.  I thought a person with Muay Thai experience has to have at least SOME ring experience......  did Tony Jaa spar and have underground gym matches during the early days of his training?


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## Damian Mavis

You mean in Thailand right?  There's thousands of muay thai practitioners in North America with absolutely no ring experience heh.  Here in Thailand most people that do muay thai do it because it's their job... so ya they all have ring experience.  But even Thailand has some people that just train and never fight.  In Tony Jaas case I have no idea why he never fought.... maybe he's got enough money that he didnt have to... maybe he was a pro gymnast at one time and just did muay thai as an activity.  Here only the poor fight.  It's not a respectable job, people know that if you're fighting it's because you come from a dirt poor family.   If you're a champion than it's respectable, but normal fighters are kind of like race horses.  Foreigners of course are the exception, we are always doing wierd things so fighting is just one of many.

No idea if he's sparred.  Probably.  But here they spar very light, but usually don't wear shin pads.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand


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## Ric Flair

Wow.  I just had some information given to me by a very respectable source.  Apparently Tony Jaa studied Muay Thai under his father.  And this particular Muay Thai is not the sport or moderated version of Muay Thai.  Tony Jaa was trained in the "Combat version" of Muay Thai.

Is this true?


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## AdrenalineJunky

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Wow. I just had some information given to me by a very respectable source. Apparently Tony Jaa studied Muay Thai under his father. And this particular Muay Thai is not the sport or moderated version of Muay Thai. Tony Jaa was trained in the "Combat version" of Muay Thai.
> 
> Is this true?


 
Where's Black Diamond Cobra, he can answer this whole thing. I am conducting a historical inquiry into the development and various stages of Siamese/Thai martial arts. What I have found is that most of the information regarding Muay Thai is completely misrepresented, for reasons I'll not get into. 

"Combat Muay Thai" is Krabi Krabong, insofar as I can tell. The Thai army was pretty modernized under King Rama II, and I'm guessing that actual combat use of Krabi Krabong began to dissolve at that point. Even as far back as Naresuan's campaigns, the Siamese were utilizing muskets and canons from the Portugese. 

Now, when people talk about old Thai Boxing, there is something that is unclear. I can't tell if people are talking about the unarmed techniques used in association with Krabi Krabong (hand to hand techniques incorporated into armed combat for disarmament, etc.) or what is now being termed Muay Kaat Chueak (something like "boxing with cotton wraps"), which was prevalent in the late 19th, early 20th century up until, what, about 1930.

My inquiry is limited to books, at this point. I have never practiced Krabi Krabong, but I'm going to nab a teacher's visa after law school and spend a couple years immersing myself in the culture, examining historical records and practicing Krabi Krabong. Black Diamond Cobra seems to have done a fair bit of that already, which is why I mentioned him. 

So, I guess the short answer is that it's unlikely. You'd really have to define "combat Muay Thai" before you could go further with this. There are a lot of boxing camps now touting Muay Thai Boran. This brings us to the part where I make a bunch of assumptions. Muay Boran seems kind of like Jaa's movie gimmick. My understanding--pre-idolization of Jaa--was that he is primarily a gymnast with experience in TKD, and a limited experience practicing Muay Thai. 

He still makes cool movies, though.


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## Ric Flair

AdrenalineJunky said:
			
		

> Where's Black Diamond Cobra, he can answer this whole thing. I am conducting a historical inquiry into the development and various stages of Siamese/Thai martial arts. What I have found is that most of the information regarding Muay Thai is completely misrepresented, for reasons I'll not get into.
> 
> "Combat Muay Thai" is Krabi Krabong, insofar as I can tell. The Thai army was pretty modernized under King Rama II, and I'm guessing that actual combat use of Krabi Krabong began to dissolve at that point. Even as far back as Naresuan's campaigns, the Siamese were utilizing muskets and canons from the Portugese.
> 
> Now, when people talk about old Thai Boxing, there is something that is unclear. I can't tell if people are talking about the unarmed techniques used in association with Krabi Krabong (hand to hand techniques incorporated into armed combat for disarmament, etc.) or what is now being termed Muay Kaat Chueak (something like "boxing with cotton wraps"), which was prevalent in the late 19th, early 20th century up until, what, about 1930.
> 
> My inquiry is limited to books, at this point. I have never practiced Krabi Krabong, but I'm going to nab a teacher's visa after law school and spend a couple years immersing myself in the culture, examining historical records and practicing Krabi Krabong. Black Diamond Cobra seems to have done a fair bit of that already, which is why I mentioned him.
> 
> So, I guess the short answer is that it's unlikely. You'd really have to define "combat Muay Thai" before you could go further with this. There are a lot of boxing camps now touting Muay Thai Boran. This brings us to the part where I make a bunch of assumptions. Muay Boran seems kind of like Jaa's movie gimmick. My understanding--pre-idolization of Jaa--was that he is primarily a gymnast with experience in TKD, and a limited experience practicing Muay Thai.
> 
> He still makes cool movies, though.




Hey Adrenaline, I also heard original Muay Thai had weapons like the bamboo sticks (kinda like Arnis?) and swords.  What do you think?


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## Manji

And what does he mean by the other sides of Muay Thai that most people don't really know about? The Muay Thai most people are familiar with is considered a sport and not a martial art, and has only been around since 1930. It is actually a watered-down version of a more vigorous and lethal form of the ancient martial art called Muay Boran, which comes from an even older version of Pahuyuth (systems of Thai martial arts) called Ling Lom "air monkey" that has its foundations in Krabi-Krabong. What's interesting about all of this is that although the ancient forms of Thai's Pahuyuth are steeped in Buddhist notions, the Ling-Lom aspect of Muay Boran has its foundations in the Hindu monkey god Hanuman, where traditional Muay Boran fights were actually dances to honor the story "The Legend of Ramayana" and the fights between the various deities involved, which of course includes the hero Hanuman. Similar to Chinese kung fu, where each technique of a form has a specific name, many of the maneuvers in Muay Boran forms have names based on the fighting postures of the gods from "Ramayana" aka "The Prince of Light."

Jaa started training in Muay Thai at age 15, trekking through the jungles from his home in Surin, near the northeastern Thai-Cambodian border, to a village called Maha Sarakham where he'd practice other kinds of martial arts and various martial arts weapons for eight hours a day under former Thai action movie hero Phanna Rithikari. However, his gymnastic skills started at an earlier age. As a kid working in his father's rice paddies, he would jump up onto his pet elephants and somersault into the river. As time went by, his teacher Phanna would have Jaa work on films doing menial labor, like being the water boy, setting up the dolly and lights, giving him the chance to see how things were done on set. Such work just re-emphasized to Jaa that he wanted to be a film star like his mentor Phanna. In fact, ONG BAK was born on the set of Jaa's first gig, being Robin Shou's stunt double on MORTAL KOMBAT: ANNIHILATION (1997). 

http://www.tonyjaa.org/kungfumag0205.shtml


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## AdrenalineJunky

Manji said:
			
		

> And what does he mean by the other sides of Muay Thai that most people don't really know about? The Muay Thai most people are familiar with is considered a sport and not a martial art, and has only been around since 1930. It is actually a watered-down version of a more vigorous and lethal form of the ancient martial art called Muay Boran, which comes from an even older version of Pahuyuth (systems of Thai martial arts) called Ling Lom "air monkey" that has its foundations in Krabi-Krabong. What's interesting about all of this is that although the ancient forms of Thai's Pahuyuth are steeped in Buddhist notions, the Ling-Lom aspect of Muay Boran has its foundations in the Hindu monkey god Hanuman, where traditional Muay Boran fights were actually dances to honor the story "The Legend of Ramayana" and the fights between the various deities involved, which of course includes the hero Hanuman. Similar to Chinese kung fu, where each technique of a form has a specific name, many of the maneuvers in Muay Boran forms have names based on the fighting postures of the gods from "Ramayana" aka "The Prince of Light."
> 
> Jaa started training in Muay Thai at age 15, trekking through the jungles from his home in Surin, near the northeastern Thai-Cambodian border, to a village called Maha Sarakham where he'd practice other kinds of martial arts and various martial arts weapons for eight hours a day under former Thai action movie hero Phanna Rithikari. However, his gymnastic skills started at an earlier age. As a kid working in his father's rice paddies, he would jump up onto his pet elephants and somersault into the river. As time went by, his teacher Phanna would have Jaa work on films doing menial labor, like being the water boy, setting up the dolly and lights, giving him the chance to see how things were done on set. Such work just re-emphasized to Jaa that he wanted to be a film star like his mentor Phanna. In fact, ONG BAK was born on the set of Jaa's first gig, being Robin Shou's stunt double on MORTAL KOMBAT: ANNIHILATION (1997).
> 
> [URL="http://www.tonyjaa.org/kungfumag0205.shtml"]http://www.tonyjaa.org/kungfumag0205.shtml[/URL]


 
Yes, well, thank you for regurgitating something you know nothing about. I'm so sick of hearing about Muay Thai Boran and Muay Kaat Chueak from people that read some crap on the internet and think they are experts. The hero of the Ramayana is not Hanuman, it's Rama. Hanuman is the Monkey warrior that assists Rama and his brother in saving Sita, his fiancé, who was stolen away from Rama by Ravana. It's not a Buddhist text, it's a Hindu text. The Siamese royalty surrounded themselves by Brahmin clergy, despite being collectively Buddhist, first Mahayana and then Theravada. The Ramayana was adopted by Thong-Duang, aka King Yotfa, aka King Rama I, who overthrew General Taksin during the Thonburi period, moving the capital across the river to Bangkok, thus beginning the Chakri dynasty. King Rama, looking to return the monarchy to traditional Siamese rule (Taksin was primarily Chinese--but so was Thong-Duang, ironically) re-wrote the Ramayana ("Ramakian") from a Siamese perspective, placing himself as the hero, Rama. 

Go back and look at what I wrote. It stands to reason that there would be quite a difference between Krabi Krabong unarmed techniques--what I would call Muay Thai Boran--and the Muay Kaat Chueak, the style of boxing matches held in the 17-1800s until the 1930's. One prevalent in the 15th/16th/17th centuries, the other prevalent in the 18th-19th and early 20th centuries. Thus, it stands to reason that Muay Kaat Chueak and Muay Thai Boran are not the same thing. The more I research Muay Thai Boran, the more it appears to be a fairytale that actually existed. Everyone wants to romanticize it and trump it up. 

I don't really know about Jaa, nor do I particularly care, anymore. Ong Bak was a cool movie that was done using a lot of gymnastics. It had a Thai martial arts THEME. 

On the bamboo thing, it stands to reason that bamboo was used in both training and warfare. I think it's still used today to train in Krabi Krabong. The people in southeast asia and the Chaophraya basin were working metal about as early as anyone else, so they would probably have used metal weapons in warfare.


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## AdrenalineJunky

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> Hey Adrenaline, I also heard original Muay Thai had weapons like the bamboo sticks (kinda like Arnis?) and swords. What do you think?


 
Google the "Buddhai Sawan," that should give you a good overview. A lot of what's being presented as Thai history should be taken with a grain of salt, but it's a good read, nevertheless, and the Buddhai Sawan, as far as I can tell, is one of the most reputable Krabi Krabong schools around.


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## Kenpo_man

AdrenalineJunky said:
			
		

> Yes, well, thank you for regurgitating something you know nothing about. I'm so sick of hearing about Muay Thai Boran and Muay Kaat Chueak from people that read some crap on the internet and think they are experts. The hero of the Ramayana is not Hanuman, it's Rama. Hanuman is the Monkey warrior that assists Rama and his brother in saving Sita, his fiancé, who was stolen away from Rama by Ravana. It's not a Buddhist text, it's a Hindu text. The Siamese royalty surrounded themselves by Brahmin clergy, despite being collectively Buddhist, first Mahayana and then Theravada. The Ramayana was adopted by Thong-Duang, aka King Yotfa, aka King Rama I, who overthrew General Taksin during the Thonburi period, moving the capital across the river to Bangkok, thus beginning the Chakri dynasty. King Rama, looking to return the monarchy to traditional Siamese rule (Taksin was primarily Chinese--but so was Thong-Duang, ironically) re-wrote the Ramayana ("Ramakian") from a Siamese perspective, placing himself as the hero, Rama.
> 
> Go back and look at what I wrote. It stands to reason that there would be quite a difference between Krabi Krabong unarmed techniques--what I would call Muay Thai Boran--and the Muay Kaat Chueak, the style of boxing matches held in the 17-1800s until the 1930's. One prevalent in the 15th/16th/17th centuries, the other prevalent in the 18th-19th and early 20th centuries. Thus, it stands to reason that Muay Kaat Chueak and Muay Thai Boran are not the same thing. The more I research Muay Thai Boran, the more it appears to be a fairytale that actually existed. Everyone wants to romanticize it and trump it up.


:flame:HAHAHAHAHA. Well put.


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## Monkeyfist

Ric Flair said:
			
		

> I've always wondered, has Tony Jaa ever truly applied his skills in the streets while growing up??? Let alone has he been in enough Muay Thai ring fights???
> 
> Anyone have any videos or anything of living proof???
> 
> Or is TOny Jaa just another good acrobat and actor????????


 
Who cares? If you like his movies, watch them. If not, go with the other kenpo guys who play patty cake in the dojo, but could never use their techniques against an opponent who isn't standing perfectly still.


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## Sagat

Monkeyfist said:
			
		

> Who cares? If you like his movies, watch them. If not, go with the other kenpo guys who play patty cake in the dojo, but could never use their techniques against an opponent who isn't standing perfectly still.


 
Ouch, take that Kenpo. Having never trained in Kenpo I can't comment, but I did watch Kenpo Man's fight and he did quite well, plus Chuck Lidell trained [maybe still does I'm not sure] in Kenpo so it can't be all bad. I'm thiinking that a guy with a username like 'Monkeyfist' would be more inclined to be practicing 'Patty cake' in a dojo:asian:


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## MuayThaiGuy

Ohhhhhh bbuuurrrrnnnnneeeddd.  But face it, he is in movies... not Pride or UFC.  If he was an excellent fighter he'd be in the big fights and so far I haven't seen him anywhere but the big screen.  He is talented nonetheless.  You can tell he has good technique in Muay Thai and an actor can't just learn that **** for a movie.  Now he's no Robert De Niro either but you have to admit he's probably one of the only people in the world that can do and aerial through two panes of glass or jump through a ring of barbed wire head AND feet first.  I am sure he has a good deal of training under his belt too, just like Jackie Chan.  Neither are amazing fighters or actors but they do both well enough to be in movies!


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## mantis

well he said he started learning Muay Thai to show the world traditional thai arts through movies just like bruce lee did... he never claimed anything else but this.


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## wee_blondie

All I can say is that I love his movies but that's all they are - MOVIES.  If you want to learn Muay Thai, find yourself a good Kru and practice.  If you want to be entertained, watch a movie!

Simple, end of.

:flame:


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## mantis

wee_blondie said:
			
		

> All I can say is that I love his movies but that's all they are - MOVIES. If you want to learn Muay Thai, find yourself a good Kru and practice. If you want to be entertained, watch a movie!
> 
> Simple, end of.
> 
> :flame:


movies? i only saw one so far... so i have to disagree with you!
and no, i only liked it when i put it on 'mute', coz that lady there yells like crazy


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## AceHBK

MuayThaiGuy said:
			
		

> Ohhhhhh bbuuurrrrnnnnneeeddd. But face it, he is in movies... not Pride or UFC. *If he was an excellent fighter he'd be in the big fights and so far I haven't seen him anywhere but the big screen.* He is talented nonetheless. You can tell he has good technique in Muay Thai and an actor can't just learn that **** for a movie. Now he's no Robert De Niro either but you have to admit he's probably one of the only people in the world that can do and aerial through two panes of glass or jump through a ring of barbed wire head AND feet first. I am sure he has a good deal of training under his belt too, just like Jackie Chan. Neither are amazing fighters or actors but they do both well enough to be in movies!


 
Y is it that a person is not a great fighter unless they are in "big fights" or UFC /Pride/K1? If a person hasnt proved themselves to our satisfaction, they are justan "ordinary joe"?  This is not meant at just tony jaa but many MArtists.


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## AceHBK

mantis said:
			
		

> movies? i only saw one so far... so i have to disagree with you!
> and no, i only liked it when i put it on 'mute', coz that lady there yells like crazy


 
I have Tom Yum Goong here at home and it is even better than Ong Bak.
Nice to see Jackie Chan do a cameo as well!!!  Guess they will be doing a movie sometime in the future.


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## wee_blondie

mantis said:
			
		

> movies? i only saw one so far... so i have to disagree with you!
> and no, i only liked it when i put it on 'mute', coz that lady there yells like crazy


 
Yeah, she did my head in too!  But the movies I'm referring to are Ong Bak and Tom Yong Goong.

Do try to keep up!


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## mantis

wee_blondie said:
			
		

> Yeah, she did my head in too!  But the movies I'm referring to are Ong Bak and Tom Yong Goong.
> 
> Do try to keep up!


I didnt know that was released in the US. is it?


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## JB*

mantis said:
			
		

> I didnt know that was released in the US. is it?


 
Ebay ^_^


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## KmAc303

Damian Mavis said:
			
		

> You mean in Thailand right? There's thousands of muay thai practitioners in North America with absolutely no ring experience heh. Here in Thailand most people that do muay thai do it because it's their job... so ya they all have ring experience. But even Thailand has some people that just train and never fight. In Tony Jaas case I have no idea why he never fought.... maybe he's got enough money that he didnt have to... maybe he was a pro gymnast at one time and just did muay thai as an activity. Here only the poor fight. It's not a respectable job, people know that if you're fighting it's because you come from a dirt poor family. If you're a champion than it's respectable, but normal fighters are kind of like race horses. Foreigners of course are the exception, we are always doing wierd things so fighting is just one of many.
> 
> No idea if he's sparred. Probably. But here they spar very light, but usually don't wear shin pads.
> 
> Damian Mavis
> Honour TKD Thailand


 
Im not sayin im right or anything, but maybe because he's really good and like the monks, he knows how to, just doesn't use it. He does all of his stunts himself, and the guys fast as hell. I bet given the situation, and with all his training he could own alot of people in the ring. Just recently saw Ong-Bak. That movie amazed me. Like one of my favorite now. Lol please don't flame me, im kinda new and don't know totally what im talking about. Just imo(in my opinion)


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## KmAc303

AceHBK said:
			
		

> Y is it that a person is not a great fighter unless they are in "big fights" or UFC /Pride/K1? If a person hasnt proved themselves to our satisfaction, they are justan "ordinary joe"? This is not meant at just tony jaa but many MArtists.


 I completely agree with you, I bet there are lots of great fighters in other countries that train or secretly train, and are REALLY good, and just don't go out fighting and using it all the time, only when totally necessary.


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## Kensai

KmAc303 said:
			
		

> I completely agree with you, I bet there are lots of great fighters in other countries that train or secretly train, and are REALLY good, and just don't go out fighting and using it all the time, only when totally necessary.


 
I'd agree with that too. This whole "if you don't fight in the UFC you're nothing" attitude annoys me intensely.


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## Mariachi Joe

I like Tony Jaa's movies and to be able to pull of the stuff he does you need to be a great deal of athletic skill.  I don't know if Tony's a good fighter or not and I don't care, his movies are cool and he seems like a nice guy so I'll watch his movies.


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## variance

Kensai said:


> I'd agree with that too. This whole "if you don't fight in the UFC you're nothing" attitude annoys me intensely.



+1 for the truth.

UFC/K1 Pride fighters are NOT the best fighters or best martial artists in the world. Maybe the best that have chosen to compete. but not everyone does or chooses to.

First off. its a SPORT. ergo it has rules.

Secondly, Many martial artists who are great have other interests and things in their life besides desiring to prove themselves, get fame, make money, demonstrate their art through competition.

Because you don't fight doesn't mean you can't.

Not sure how accurate this documentary is but It looks legit.
Shaolin Temple Documentary, National Geographic.





a average UFC/Pride would take a average shaolin monk but mostlikely not one of the original combat/martial oriented ones before the mao cultural revolution.


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## Mariachi Joe

Jet Li would be a great example of someone who is a great martial artist, but has never been in a fight in his life, but he was China's national Wushu champion 5 years straight.


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## Shark

Here only the poor fight. It's not a respectable job, people know that if you're fighting it's because you come from a dirt poor family. If you're a champion than it's respectable, but normal fighters are kind of like race horses. Foreigners of course are the exception, we are always doing wierd things so fighting is just one of many.

Only the poor fight, its not a respectable job and foreigners are the exception?
 Yes, some children begin their career to make money for their parents and yes the best fighters come from the poorer areas. Spending your life training 6 hours a day to send money home to your parents each month. No respect?
There are many Thai kids that go to Bangkok in their school holidays to live in the boxing camps and fight to earn money for school and their family.
 I think this is the case in most countries when it comes to professional fight sports? 
Muay Thai is the national sport of Thailand and i think the average person in Thailand respects the tough life that they have chosen or perhaps that has been chosen for them. Its true that Muay Thai is not for the upper/middle class  but the majority of Thai people dont fit into this group.
You are Thai and do Muay Thai because you are dirt poor and you do it if your a foreigner because you are weird?
Money does not earn you respect in my book.


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## Damian Mavis

Shark, sorry man but you dont know what you are talking about.  From the UP looking down, fighting is lower than cleaning lady.  They treat their fighters like horses.... and thats not a good thing.  You dont have to agree with it, you dont have to understand it, its just the way it is in Thailand.  This is the most racist, prejudiced and unequal place I've ever been but thats just the way it is and I was describing Thai attitudes not my own. NO this is not the case like most countries...... sheesh, most countries OUTLAW little kids from fighting!  They certainly dont make money betting on children bashing eachothers face in.  You think its honourable and respectful that poor child fighters are making money to send back to their family?  Gee HOOKERS here do the same exact thing (some of them underage).... they make money and send it back home to their family too, sometimes with their blessing, is that honourable too?  Maybe it is. Nobody CHOOSES the tough life, man..... said just like a naive rich westerner.  In Thailand you are either born with money or not, they dont choose to live a freaking life of poverty, nobody is stupid enough to do that.  The people at the bottom feel like that is their lot in life and rarely do anything to bring themselves out of it because they feel that is just the way it is.  I see it all day every day.  Its not like Europe or North America where we choose our paths.  For some reason this culture keeps people from elevating themselves or even wanting too.  There are very few rags to riches success business stories here.

Thai people think we as foreigners are weird, not me.  I said they think we are weird so it doesnt surprise them when a rich foreigner fights or trains muay thai for pleasure.  Their culture is so completely different but they are getting used to the strange things we do even if they dont understand them.  Strange to THEM, not me.

Money doesn't earn you respect in your book?  Good for you, me too.  BUT I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAILAND.  Money is everything to them.  Get it yet? heh.  They dont think like us and you can hate it all you want but arguing with me about it isnt going to change anything here.

Where you under the impression I was talking about my own opinions?  I'm Canadian for crying outloud, political correctness has been ingrained into my psyche since I was a baby...... shock of my life to move here and find out the rest of the world does not think like Canada.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand


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## Shark

I agree from the UP looking down this is the attitude.
Fighers lower than the cleaning lady?lots of people turn up to matches in stadiums, temple fairs etc as well as on Tv to watch Muay Thai not cleaning ladies.
In Thailand they have conscription to the army where everyone learns Muay Thai, do these normal Thai men have more respect for fighters or cleaning ladies? 
My point is the average Thai person is quite poor by western standards and these people love their national sport and dont think of the boxers as low. From up looking down i agree with you.
My other comment was more to the fact that the best professional fighters often come from poor backgrounds all over the world.
I can see that you have been in Thailand long enough to see through a few of those smiles and i agree with some of what you have said about racism etc perhaps you have been in Bangkok too long?
Perhaps you got me on a bad day yesterday, im glad you dont hold the same views as those upper class Thais. Know doubt you deal with them more than me.
 A naive foreigner i am not, i have spent a long time here and have a Muay Thai gym in Chiang Mai. We treat our boys well, they all have to go to school after they train in the morning so they have a future after boxing. We try to get the older boys to use their money to help siblings through school and set up their parents etc in some sort of business(even if its a market stall).
 Yes i agree some gyms are ruthless the way they treat their boys, but not all. Look me up next time you are in Chiang Mai and come and train, im sure you will enjoy the hospitality and the training.
www.muaythaicamps.com


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## Damian Mavis

I apologise for anything I said that was insulting.  You're right, I interact with mostly upper caste and dont have alot of experience interacting with lower caste these past few years.  Sounds snobby but due to business and lifestyle changes I just circulate in certain circles.  It is a different world and I know that.   But to me that is Thailand, it's pretty much all I see.    Truthfully I rarely get out of Bangkok and have never been to most of the other places one should go to if living in Thailand (like ChiangMai).  I'm just too busy, I keep wanting to but the time never seems to come available.

I'm very happy you have a camp and you look out for your fighters, that is a bit of a dream of mine.  But it involves Tae Kwon Do too.  I'd like to have a camp or 2 that takes in extremely poor kids and feed, house and foreign educate them.  Give them all the skills they would get back in North America but also give them full time martial arts training.  Make a camp of future world champions, the first for Thailand in TKD.  Fighting muay thai would be involved too but would be secondary to the TKD goals.  I have a professional muay thai fighter on staff as my assistant and he would be in charge of the muay thai aspects.  Anyway, thats just a plan for down the road when I have more money or talk an investor into doing it.  It would cost alot to properly house and educate these kids.  I only want to do it if its done well.

Sorry for the negative start, nice to meet you.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand


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## Shark

No worries, nice to meet you.
I have spent plenty of time in Bangkok and have experienced many of the negative things that you have. Its always interesting to hear what some Thai people say about you in those circles if you let them think that you dont speak any Thai.
My experience and travel has shown me that often the less afluent people are the friendliest and most hospitable, not sure why. There is a Russian proverb "you see the real man when he gains weath", i guess money changes people?
Your goals are interesting and i wish you the best of luck. We will be bringing a Brazilian Top Team black belt from Rio this year who will learn Muay Thai and teach BJJ for a year. It will be interesting how many more wealthy Thais come or send their kids. 
Come to Chiang Mai for Sorn Glarn, its the best place in Thailand to party for the New Year.


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