# Is stickfighting similar to shovel fighting?



## ahlspiess (Aug 15, 2003)

Is stickfighting similar to shovel fighting?  I am asking this question because I do not have a shovel or spade but I do have a stout wooden stick in my house if the form of a baseball bat.  I have been reading the book "Cold Steel" by John Styers which shows some moves involving the stick.


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## arnisador (Aug 15, 2003)

Dr. Gyi of Bando states that a literal stick is a very uncommon weapon and that in practice it's very often a shovel that is used. I don't know how similar the actual techniques are in RMA though!


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## Touch Of Death (Aug 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ahlspiess _
> *Is stickfighting similar to shovel fighting?  I am asking this question because I do not have a shovel or spade but I do have a stout wooden stick in my house if the form of a baseball bat.  I have been reading the book "Cold Steel" by John Styers which shows some moves involving the stick. *


Ahlspiess,
In my trainng we are taught that sticks and clubs are different, and as far as i'm concerned your shouvel is more club than stick. Stick training deals in speeds faster than you can do empty handed and clubs are slower yet final. I hope I was of some assistance.
Sean


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## arnisador (Aug 15, 2003)

This is a good point that's rarely made--a stick is usually uniform but many stick-like weapons, including the ASP baton, are weighted toward the end. It matters.


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## NYCRonin (Aug 15, 2003)

The shovel commonly associated with RMA is the short shovel/entrenchment tool. Whereas there is some passing similarity to stick use - the blade of the shovel permits it to cut and stab an opponent. The sides provide a hooking action and the pan of the shovel allows for some powerful 'slapping' motions.
This lil nasty tool can also be thrown for short distances - very surprising and hard hitting/cutting.


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## jellyman (Aug 18, 2003)

If anything, the shovel reminds me of a hatchet. You can use it to chop logs too.


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## NYCRonin (Aug 18, 2003)

It chops logs. It chops legs. ("It dices, it slices. It even makes julienne fries - whatever they are!").
Overall, it is a much more versatile combat tool than a stick, club or staff - and its capability to serve as a survival tool (many more uses than just digging a hole) really puts it over the top. Should be in every car trunk.


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## ahlspiess (Aug 18, 2003)

Thanks for your input about stick and shovel fighting. I might consider what one person said about  having a shovel in the car.  Is the folding shovel is good as the fixed handled shovels?  I see a lot of folding shovels in stores that sell camping equipment.


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## jellyman (Aug 20, 2003)

never tried a folding shovel myself.


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## Brian King (Aug 20, 2003)

While in the army (many years ago) they had these black foldable e-tools (e-tools = entrenching tool= shovel) that you could tri fold into a nice little package that fastened to your web belt. Most of us used that one for inspections, when you had to march while wearing all your gear, when you had to show that you had an e-tool but you were sure that you would not have to use it. They were notorious for breaking where the head bent making them worthless. For the times that we had to have a working e-tool we kept one of the old Vietnam era shovels. The head still folded over but they were made much tougher. You could lock the head into different positions to make a hoe/pick ax type of shape, keep it folded or open it into a straight shovel.

If I was going to keep a shovel in the car and weight and size was not an issue but function ability was I would pick the strongest engineered tool. If I just wanted something that might make do then I would get what ever was the cheapest. If I had to carry one for miles and miles I would want it to be able to do the job (what ever that might be) when I need it.

See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian


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