# wetzel death



## OULobo (Jul 24, 2003)

Wondering if anyone knows what really happened to the late Willie Wetzel of poekelan cimande silat. I have seen that his eldest son killed him in a fight at his house. I have seen court reports stating his son Roy killed him with a pair of nunchuks and another less reliable report it was with a sword. Just curious as this is some great dramatics.


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## arnisador (Jul 24, 2003)

When was this?


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 24, 2003)

I remember reading about the incident in the news section of an old issue of Karate Illustrated.  Please excuse an old man's poor memory, but I'll give you what I can.  As I recall, the magazine reported that the senior Mr. Wetzel was in a state of extreme depression over a personal loss (I think his wife had died, but I'm not sure).  At one point he and his son got into an arguement, weapons came into play and the senior Mr. Wetzel was fatally stabbed.  The local law enforcement was quoted as feeling that the two were the toughest guys thereabouts.  
I tried to find that old Karate Illustrated, but no luck so far.  I post this with no ill will toward the Wetzel family or any of their students, just answering the query with what I recall about this sad event.

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## OULobo (Jul 24, 2003)

I totaly agree. I'm not trying to imply anything by asking. I'm just curious. Most of the the ifo I gather holds both men in high regard. I have heard a few differing stories and am curious, as it was before my time and there are still people around who have trained with both father and son.  I think the incident occured in the 70s or 80s in a town in PA called Beaver Creek. Willie had three sons; one still teaches, one I can't find much about and the eldest, Roy, is the one that killed his father. I think he is dead now too, though i don't know how. The court documents say that the argument and personal loss was over Willie being destitute after doing the annual taxes, which Roy prepared. Either way, the word I have, is ta Roy was quite the bada$$ and his father was both well repected, effective and practical in his fighting method. Again, I agree with randy in that I mean no insult to the Wetzel family or the Poekelan Cimande group, I'm just trying to clear the murk of history and rumor.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Jul 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by OULobo _
> * The court documents say that the argument and personal loss was over Willie being destitute after doing the annual taxes, which Roy prepared. *


That's probably it.  Like I said, I was going on memory.  Thanks for the added info.  :asian:  BTW, it's spelled "Chiun".  No one has skills greater than the Master of Sinanju.  

Trying to avoid life's potholes,
Randy Strausbaugh


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## Rex Downie Jr. (Feb 8, 2005)

My name is Rex Downie, a retired attorney living in Beaver Falls, Pa, about 30 mi north of Pittsburgh. I, along with George James  represented Roy Wetzel in a murder case brought in Beaver County regarding the death of Willie Wetzel. Willie died as a result of Roy getting a set of nunchuck around his neck and, in effect, strangling him.  The coroner testified that the cause of death was heart failure, which is consistent with asphyxiation.  The fight lasted 15 or 20 minutes, and I saw the apartment the day after and can say  it was a very bloody matter. The case was tried by jury before Judge Beryl Kline. It lasted a week . Roy was acquitted by reason of self defense. He was a good friend of mine and we spent many hours together before he died.  He later died of a heart failure. He was survived by a brother Jim, a Sister Jane, and three children, Rochelle, Kaylan and Christian. Jim still runs a Penjat Silat school in Rochester, Pa.  I was a close friend of Roy and knew a lot of his students, most of whom still live in this area. I could say a great deal more about Roy and Willie, and I was well acquainted with Penjat Silat, though I took only minor training in it. There is a lot of nonsense going about on the www about the case, such as that Christian shot Roy. There is no truth in that. That Willie was hit in the back of his head by Roy with a rock. Nonsense. People smoking too much dope. Christian lives now in or near Rochester, and I saw him perhaps last year. Willie taught penjat silat inthe old armory building in New Brighton, Pa, and I can still find many of his students who will tell you about him.   

I have written a 5000wd more or less bio of Roy and the murder case and can answer specific questions if asked. If anyone cares to send me two dollars and an address, I will forward a copy of the bio.to them. My address is 612 Darlington Road, Beaver Falls, Pa. 15010.


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## Cruentus (Feb 8, 2005)

Thanks for clearing that one up, Mr. Downie.

Paul


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## OULobo (Feb 8, 2005)

I do appreciate an answer coming from a source near to the incident and those involved. It is sad that such a thing had to happen. Thank you for your info, and I will try to take you up on the offer of the report.


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## Rex Downie Jr. (Feb 9, 2005)

Thanks for the kind responses to my post. If you put in a google search for Roy Wetzel, you will find a posting from bchistory that was assembled by a friend of mine. Charles Townsend. WE spent many hours interviewing Roy about his remarkable life and adventures in Viet Nam. The short bio that appears on that site is a condensation of the longer one I have written. Incidentally, included on the site is a photo of the two sword. Willie tried to draw a Hawaiin sword, but Roy was able to bend the sheath so it couldn't be extracted. As Roy headed to the rear of the apt. - where his infant daughter Rochelle was - Willie took a shorter sword from a stand on top of the TV set and charged Roy with a side-swing. Roy pulled down a stainless steel & glass shelf/room divider that took the force of the blow - hence the blade is bent. The photo is from the cover of a magazine Roy tried to publish - only one issue was printed & destroyed by fire. A few copies remain. Thanks for the open discussion. Roy was a remarkable man. Rex
 Downie jr.


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## Randy Strausbaugh (Feb 10, 2005)

Thanks again for clearing up this sad matter.   :asian:


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## Rex Downie Jr. (Jul 10, 2005)

My name is Rex Downie and I co-defended with George E. James, Roy E.Wetzel in a murder charge made regarding the death of Willie Wetzel in Roy's residence in Monaca Pa in the mid seventies. The area I speak of is 32 mi. north of Pittsburgh on the Beaver River. There is a lot of stupid/misinformed stuff about this floating around so I'll give a brief review here...if there's a Marial Arts magazine around that someone can refer me to, I'll write an article for it. At the time of the fight Roy lived in Monaca with his wife Tatha and his 3 yr old Daughter, Rochelle. Roy had served with the Marines at Khe Sanh and had been blown up by a 60 mm morter and needed numerous reconstructive operations to his left hip, which he quite successfully protected in full contact fighting. I watched him spar and fight many times - after the trial. At the time in question, Roy was teaching in a school on 7th street in Beaver Falls along with Willie. 

Willie had divorce Roy's mother, married again, divorced or deserted #2 and taken up with a young girl from Zelienople, Pa. Willie was a bully and tried to teach by intimidation. Several of students around here will tell you that, including my next door neighbor. Willie had developed a mystique, however telling students that he was part of a Master's association that met every ten years in Idonesia and one had to have one fight to the death to continue a member. The steel mill workers around here ate it up. Willie WAS very gifted. He could jump up and touch an 8ft ceiling with is toe. He made a lot of money betting people at Westinghous that he could jump out of a 50 gal drum, straight up. 

Roy was very gifted in numbers, so he did Willie's income tax and got him a approx. 700$ return. Roy was an excellent teacher and drew many more students to the school, and there very soon developed a competition between "Roy's Students" and "Willies Students", and, hence a lot of jealosy developed.  Willie came to Roy's house in Monaca one evening to sign the tax return for the Karate school.  He was very angry because he was paying support to his two prior wives. When he signed the return, he just shot the pen across the paper, knocking it to the floor. He went to the front door, beside which was a Hawaiian Ceremonial sword. He grabbed it, began to unsheath it, and screamed out a Keeya. Roy was behind him to say something, and got to the sheath in time to bend it, preventing Willie from drawing it. The fight ensued, which I will not detail at this time. It did involve a shorter suppuku sword, a riggers knife and oak nunchucks. And Willie died of asphyxiation because Roy had gotten the nunchucks on is neck like a nutcracker. Willie had used his riggers knife and had sliced Roys chest and biceps numerous time with shallow cuts. I visited the house the next day and it looked like a pig had been slaughtered in there. The trial lasted a week, the Chief of Police testified that he thought Roy had acted in self-defense, and Roy was acquitted. Willie apparantly was a Satanist, or at least practice voodoo, because the police found voodoo dolls in his apt with pins stuck through them. The dolls were of Roy, Wim, Jim and Jane and his two x wives. Roy died of heart valve failure about 8 or ten years ago. He is survived by three children, Christian, Kaylen, and Rochelle. Willie had 5 children. By his first wife, Roy, Jim, Wim and Jane.   
After the trial, Roy and I became close friends, and we spent a lot of ti me kicking things around. I went to two or three tournaments and started on lessons twice, both interrupted by badly sprained ankles gotten in long distance running 20-40 mi per week. I took Roy into the Canadian bush at least 3 times up near Nakina Ont. and we spent many hours going over quetions about Christianity, for he bacame a Christian the night of the fight. HE always told me it was a ":spiritual fight". His favourite book in the Bible was Isaiah.  There is much more I could relate, but won't here on a public site. I have a considerable file on the matter, with all the relavant dates, but cannot locate it at this moment; but the above is truth as best as I know it. Rex Downie Jr.


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## docrock (Jul 12, 2005)

Good to see Rex posting here, he is a good man and speaks the truth about the events surrounding the death of Willy Wetzel. Since this is an open forum it is probably just a matter of time until some of Willy's old students get on here and start bashing Roy.We might be spared this because in order to post here you actually have to register with your real name and email. Remember that this was a public trial among a jury of his peers and Roy was aquitted, but many still carry on with their ridiculous stories about how Willy was "murdered";. You will be able to easily distinguish between students of Roy and Willy's students. The vast majority of Roy's old students will be respectful, while posts by mosts of Willy's old students will be filled with vitriol, ad hominum, and vulgarity. A more in depth discussion of this can be found here www.chosenfewsilat.com in the forum section


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## Kiai Carita (Jul 15, 2005)

docrock said:
			
		

> Good to see Rex posting here, he is a good man and speaks the truth about the events surrounding the death of Willy Wetzel. Since this is an open forum it is probably just a matter of time until some of Willy's old students get on here and start bashing Roy.We might be spared this because in order to post here you actually have to register with your real name and email. Remember that this was a public trial among a jury of his peers and Roy was aquitted, but many still carry on with their ridiculous stories about how Willy was "murdered";. You will be able to easily distinguish between students of Roy and Willy's students. The vast majority of Roy's old students will be respectful, while posts by mosts of Willy's old students will be filled with vitriol, ad hominum, and vulgarity. A more in depth discussion of this can be found here www.chosenfewsilat.com in the forum section


This is a tragic story indeed, and shows to prove what happens if you practise silat without kebatinan, without working on how you keep your inner peace. If one only studies the physical aspect of silat, the higher you go the deeper the chasm you fall into. Although the story is horrifica and sad, Alhamdulillah, praise be to Allah, Roy found a religion to cleanse and open up his batin. 

My prayers are for all involved, including the students of this silat. I pray that the students of this silat do not continue to divorce the moves from the spiritualism of their silat and continue with the the noble aspiration of silat, to become real pendekar and not just jago silat. 

A real pendekar is a protector of the community. Up till the late 19th century in Java, if a man eatting tiger or a robber in the woods was harassing village live-stock the pendekar must find and fight it and win. In daily life a pendekar must show respect to all things living and not and seek to develop life and not to kill. 

If someone is merely a jago he or she is a silat expert and fighter only but is not an example of ethics and leadership. In the days when Indonesia was colonized, the Dutch often used the jago to enforce their will on the peasant population. In the plantations the jago were used to ensure that the coolies living under slave conditions stayed productive for the Dutch masters. Jago means very good at, a master, but only in the physical aspect. All pendekar's must be jago silat but not all jago are pendekar. 

The jago are used as tools of political repression to this day in fact one might suspect that their numbers are growing. Pendekar's, however, like artists, are a gift of God to their community.

Hormat,
Kiai Carita.


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## VWetzel (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm Vanessa Wetzel...Grandaughter of Willie Wetzel and Neice of Roy Wetzel.

No My grama is still alive and I know the story. I just wanted everyone to know. My uncle was defending himself and he was writing a book about his life and the instance of my Grandfathers death. Unfortunatly he died before he could finish it. Let me know if you have any questions. I'd be happy to answer.

Oh also... My father, Jim Wetzel, yes he currently owns the school. It is in Rochester PA, Right next to the point for any local readers.


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## Carol (Aug 30, 2007)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Ms. Wetzel!

Tragic story about two great men.  Glad to see that Silat is still in the family.:asian:


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## tellner (Sep 21, 2007)

Welcome, Vanessa! Good to see you here.


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## MasRebecca (Nov 2, 2007)

docrock said:


> Good to see Rex posting here, he is a good man and speaks the truth about the events surrounding the death of Willy Wetzel. Since this is an open forum it is probably just a matter of time until some of Willy's old students get on here and start bashing Roy.We might be spared this because in order to post here you actually have to register with your real name and email. Remember that this was a public trial among a jury of his peers and Roy was aquitted, but many still carry on with their ridiculous stories about how Willy was "murdered";. You will be able to easily distinguish between students of Roy and Willy's students. The vast majority of Roy's old students will be respectful, while posts by mosts of Willy's old students will be filled with vitriol, ad hominum, and vulgarity. A more in depth discussion of this can be found here www.chosenfewsilat.com in the forum section


 

I'm really sad to hear people feel this way about Willie's former students. As a new student in martial arts, I won't claim to know anything about the facts of this case - I am here because I was merely curious to know more. I'm a fifth river under Mas Goeroe Agong Willie Wetzel, myself. I love my art and feel strongly that it has added to my inner peace as well as to my physical well-being. I think the pendekkars at my school definitely fit the description given by another poster as protectors of the community.

I'm saying this simply because I'd like it to be known that whomever and whatever else Mas Goeroe Agong Willie Wetzel may have been, he produced a wonderful art that adds something incredibly positive to my life.

Terimah Kasih Banyak,
Mas Rebecca


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## Carol (Nov 2, 2007)

Welcome to MartialTalk, Mas Rebecca!


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## Mas Nick G (Jul 20, 2008)

Many thanks, Mas Rebecca, for what you've said. It seems there have been no postings to this thread in a while, but I'd like to add my two cents anyway. 

Mas Rebecca's post is a ray of sunlight from an otherwise stormy sky, and it seems some would be surprised--if they expect Mas Goeroe Agoeng Willy Wetzel's students to be contentious and belligerent--with the contributions that students like Mas Rebecca and myself have to offer. I have only recently been somewhat interested in the circumstances around Mas Goeroe Agoeng's passing, after more than three years of training in Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen, and have not previously been all that interested because my instructors have always emphasized his life rather than his death, and have also focused on what we all can do with what we've been given rather than wishing things were different. 

I did not know Mas Goeroe Agoeng. I have never even seen film footage of him doing anything (though if anyone knows where I could find some, I'd love to see it!). I have met and talked with Mas Goeroe Barbara a few times, but I mainly train under Goeroe Janesa Kruse at One With Heart in Portland, OR. My experience of Poekoelan has been pretty much the same as Mas Rebecca's, and I heartily second everything she said. I would also add that the vast majority of my experiences of instructors and most other teammates who stay in the art for the long term have been this: that we, as a general rule of thumb, tend to be very good at putting our admittedly existent egos in the service of our highest possible intentions. Though I have heard of some few instances of bad infighting, I have never directly experienced any of it, and in fact my experiences have been of a higher degree of harmony and integration than I have found in any other group of people of any kind. My instructors do not seem to be perfect, by any means; they simply seem very, very good--well beyond my capacity to rate or judge. Moreover, the changes that Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen has brought to my life are positive beyond anything I could previously have imagined.

Did all this come from Mas Goeroe Agoeng? I don't know. Maybe it showed up later, after him. Maybe it came from much further back, before even Oei King Boen or Djet Bang Salimoen. All very interesting, and I'd love to talk about it with anyone, but at the same time I don't think it really matters. Whatever Mas Goeroe Agoeng's role, whatever his personality, however he lived his life, whatever the manner of his death or who is to blame for what, to be preoccupied with these things is not my role as his student. I am simply eternally grateful to him for what he has given us, this art that has been passed to me and my fellow students, and I see my role as to train to the best of my ability and pass along what I have learned in my turn. 

To any practitioners of other schools and anyone concerned with these matters, I offer sincere High Light and welcome conversation. I will never offer a challenge except in love and joy, nor will I accept one that is not offered similarly. I don't care who's "the real thing", "better", "the best", or who wins. I'd rather fight to celebrate the art, not to beat anybody. That's been the nature of the training I've received.


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## arnisador (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your inside info. with us. It's appreciated.


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## Wogeibe (Dec 16, 2008)

My pastor was good friends with Roy Wetzel.  Roy respected my pastor and if I remember right, Roy used to help my pastor with his newspaper business and they would drive around together.  Roy was not a born again Christian but he told my pastor that if he ever went to a church, that he would go to his church.(I think thats how the story went anyways)  When my pastor met Roy's father for the first time, he told Roy to be careful around his father because he sensed he was trouble.  Roy's father would boast about killing men in Indonesian martial arts tournaments and would laugh as he related how the blood squirted out.  The night of the incident, my pastor saw the report on the news about the fight and so my pastor rushed down to the jail to see Roy and told the police that he was Roy's pastor and he came to see him.  Although Roy didn't go to the church, my pastor was the closest thing Roy had to a pastor.  They let my pastor in to see Roy and Roy was pretty shaken up.  Roy had scratches on the inside of his throat from his father apparently trying to rip his tongue out.  Roy's  father swung the sword so hard at him that it bent the sword in half.  Roy said he hit his father in the head with a pair of nunchucks and it knocked the top half of his head off, but his father was still crawling after him and growling like an animal.  My pastor ministered to Roy and led him in a prayer to accept Christ.  I think my pastor also testified as a character witness for Roy.  I was just surfing the net and I came across this discussion so I figured I would add my small amount of knowledge to the matter.  God bless.


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## Shagen (Apr 29, 2009)

Mas Nick G,
   My 7 year old trains here in Portland at One With Heart. Under Mas Mike. He is great. She just recieved her first stripe on her white belt. I am just looking around on the internet to find out as much as I can about the poekoelan so I can know more about what she is doing and where it comes from. They offered a club at her school to train for so many weeks for free and she liked it so we signed her up and now that I am on a contract I just want to know more about what she is doing. She is good at it and loves it.


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## katos (Jun 14, 2013)

With all due respect to Mr Rex Downie there are often 2-4sides to every story.  If Mr. Downie wasin fact the defense attorney is the first question.  (He may have been) but I will say that 99% ofeverything I hear about the Wetzels is BS.  110% of what I hear/read about Peokeolan is BS.I read web pages, meet instructors, etc, etc, I will tell you as a fact thatmost who now teach Peokoelan know absolutely nothing about the art.  I laughed my a** off when a recent peokeolan masterdecided to add takes downs and ground fighting after watching MMA.  This master could not have taken one lesson;he also could not do one sit-up.  I willtell you that I believe 80% of the comments from Mr. Downie are NOT correct(either thru telling part of the story or thru exaggeration, or just plainwrong). 
The comments that Roy was a Christian Saint and THEE martialarts master are a laugh and that Willy was a voodoo practicing martial artsfake and bully are ridiculous.  Peoplewho actually attended the original school know very well the skill differencebetween Roy and Willy.  Roy was good, buthe was not Willy or even in the top half dozen in the school.  Roy had lots of trophies, sure, so did frankdux(that he bought ¼ mile away),  Check outnewspapers and martial arts magazines for competitions of the era and let meknow how many times you find Roy Wetzel attending a competition, even local(but not in house).  If you find onereference let the community know, it would be a first.
Roy was found innocent but I would bet my bottom dollar thatwould not happen today.  Moderninvestigation would likely reveal that Willy was filling out his taxes, Roy hithis father in the head with a pair of nunchucks rendering him almost dead andsure to be dead, (when he hit his father a pen mark was drawn across the taxforms).  Then he finished him by chokinghim.  In 70s the mystique kung-Fu wasnew. People may have believed that Willy was a threat with his head halfknocked off; in a modern court the judge would laugh.  Add in blood splatter evidence and etc. and Ithink this may have been viewed very differently  Funny the posts by Mr Rex do not mention thehead injury?????
In a courtroom today, witnesses would be called to look atthe defense wounds (tiny scratches) as clearly fake and Roys story that hisfather was trying to use the ancient art of cutting tiny capillaries to killhim as not part of any fighting art or even any part of reality (trust me, itsnot).  Yeah the house was a bloody mess,who blood? 
As far as the Vatican reviewing Roys case forsainthood?  Ask around about Royshobbies and ask yourself why a man that age dies of a head attack.
As far as Willys old school students; the Golden boys, etc.,all fine Gentleman!  I spared many ofthem in the day, when I was a kid they are the real deal.
I want to be Clear, Roy was an amazing martial artist and inthe shape of a modern MMA fighter in the day. I dont want to insult his students, but he was not Willie.  I would only rank him in the top ten in thatcrew, but again, an almost supernatural crew.


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## Karen Botinovch Cody (Aug 5, 2016)

I know it has been some time since the inquiring blog on Wiily & Roy Wetzel.  But I thought you all might be interested in a book that was just published by the oldest some Wim Wetzel....*Empty Open Hands, A Survivor's Story*....The Life & Legacy of Martial Arts Master Willy Johannes Cristoffel Wetzel. 

Actually Roy was not the oldest, he was the second son.  Wim was about 2 years older than Roy although, if I recall correctly, they both where in the same grade when they attended Beaver Hi, due to the transition from Holland etc. I only knew Wim, Roy and Janie....not Jimmy.

Back to the book.  It starts with Willy's life as a child, goes through military and 4 years as a POW....tells of Willy's and the family's life from beginning to end.   Wim did send me a message and say it was a tough read....I told him no problem I'd be fine.  He was correct...it is.  I made it thru the first few pages and had to put it down with tears in my eyes.  I'm thru to about 1/2 and put it down again.  It actually made my heart hurt...maybe because it's hard to know that friends had to experience all that. I knew in hi-school Roy and his dad had a strained relationship but reading this gave me a better understanding of their father and why he was who he was. I highly recommend it.


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## Mas Tom (Apr 28, 2020)

Hello All! It's been about 4yrs since anyone has posted to this forum. So I figured I'd like to add my two sense during these crazy pandemic Covid-19 times. Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Mas Tom. You can call me a "Guru" if you want. I have over 23yrs+ of studying Penjak Silat Poekoelan Tjimindie. Ten of these 23yrs I trained directly under Mas Roy Wetzel in Rochester, Pa. I started training as a young boy at the age of 7-8yrs old. That was right around 1986-1987. I trained under Mas Roy Wetzel until the time of his death in 1995-1996. For the idiot who said that Mas Roy "never won trophies" and "had his trophies made" is a very disrespectful and ill-informed individual. Back in the 70s Mas Roy Wetzel would go to all of these tourments sponsored by Master Curtis Smith,  Master Bill Viola, Frank Caliguri & Master John Barton. Mas Roy's style my style "Poekoelan" which technically I'm a "Fourth River" since I learned right from Mas Roy Wetzel is a very different type of "martial arts". Back in the 70s the tournament scene never seen anything like Roy Wetzel or a "crawl" or " Poekoelan" in general. Tournament fighting is completely different all together. Take it from me I was 4th place PA State Champion back in the 90s and I won quite a few trophies & tournaments. Whenever you "tournament fight" you're not suppose to actually hit people. You're suppose to pull your blow a few inches from their body. Also the striking or "point area" is from the head down to the waist and nothing lower. So here came this crazy long haired cut mofo named Roy Wetzel who had a very bad persona surrounding him due to killing his father Willy Wetzel. Not only did Mas Roy have this spooky almost scary vibe he gave off because if you didn't know him and just read the headlines one may think this dude is a murder he killed his father! Not true at all. So getting back to Roy Wetzel competing during the 70s. Mas Roy's strikes were so fast (I personally trained with him & seen him strike heavy bags. One time he blew the sand out of the bag he hit it so hard) well needless to say his strikes weren't being recognized as "points" back in the 70s. So this kind of pissed him off. What happened next led to the Wetzel school of self defense being banned from tournaments for over 25yrs! Because Mas Roy said "They didn't want to recognize my points. So I made sure they would recognize my points. And I started knocking people out." Mas Roy Wetzel DOMINATED the mid to late 70s tournament scene until a group of "Masters" I'm not going to mention any names here got together & banned Mas Roy Wetzel & the Wetzel Self Defense school from future tournaments. Now I'm sure this had more politics to do with the banning including the fact that this man killed his father! Of course these "Masters" didn't want some crazed murder running around their tournaments knocking all of the other so called "Masters" and black belts out cold. It wasn't until around 1992-1993 that we were finally invited back to a tournament which at that time was a CS Kim tournament and it was a huge one. I competed at that time I was a brown belt and I'd been studying for around 6-7yrs. I'll never forget one of the CS Kim "Masters" asking me how long I studied for. I replied "About 7yrs" they started laughing at me saying "You should be a Black Belt Master" like they didn't even believe me or something? Anyways I placed first in fighting and from that point I was hooked. I started going to as many tournaments as Mas Roy would allow me to go to. I ended up placing 1st in numerous fighting tournaments including the Laurel State Karate Championship (I had a broken collar bone at the time too) and Curtis Smith's Ultimate Fighter, etc. Mas Roy actually organized his own tournament shortly before his untimely death: The Beaver County Martial Arts Classic which I placed 1st in fighting, forms & breaking. I use to be able to do a speed break (it's now become a lost art). I could throw a board up in the air and break it in mid air. Or someone would hold the board and drop it from a ladder or chair and I would always strike fast enough to break it. My hand speed was incredible. I learned all of my techniques directly from Mas Roy Wetzel. I would sit in his office and have long talks with him as a kid and teenager. He watched me grow and develop into an extremely serious fighter. The trophies Mas Roy had on display at his school were most DEFINITELY 1000% LEGIT!! Most of them had cobwebs on them and they were faded away from the 70s but each and everyone of them had their own story and they were fought hard to be won by a martial arts hall of famer. Yes Mas Roy Wetzel was inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Something not even his father Willy Wetzel was able to accomplish in his lifetime. I can tell anyone who says Poekoelan is "BS" or this or that. I know from where I came from this style was no BS! I seen people get their noses broken during open hand combat aka "sparring" (we didn't use equipment to spar) I personally had my adams apple kicked so hard one time that I couldn't breathe. I've given people bloody lips & ended up with a few myself along with bruises all over my body. We fought hard at Mas Roy's to say the least. I remember doing monkey rolls back & forth across the wood floor. I was probably around 13-14 at the time. I started teaching at a green belt. I was running warm-ups and full classes at a third degree. After Mas Roy's passing I broke away from the school and helped Mas Dean Peteralla open up a school in West Aliquippa, Pa. We trained for a few years there then moved to the boxing club in Ambridge, Pa where I trained with golden glove boxers for about another 3-4yrs. From there we moved to Hopewell twp Pa and I kept training under Mas Dean until I was around 27yrs old. After I left Mas Dean I moved out to CA and took a few years of MMA. I am now 40yrs old and I'm going to be opening up my own Poekoelan school in the Pittsburgh, Pa area after this Covid-19 crap subsides. I will be focusing my school on the old style & original style that Mas Roy Wetzel taught me. I will also be incorporating some MMA, boxing, etc techniques that were taught to me by golden glove fighters and west coast competitors. Now I'm sure that there are a ton of "phony martial artists" out there. But my record speaks for itself and so does my dozens of 1st, 2nd & 3rd place awards. But to say that Roy Wetzel wasn't the BEST martial artist of his time would be an under statement. Mas Roy was a genuine person and one hell of a nice guy. I feel very lucky and blessed to have had the opportunity to train with such a fantastic person and a complete BadAss! I know that anyone who stuck around for 5yrs or more at Mas Roy's left Mas Roy's one hell of a fighter. Again Roy Wetzel's Self Defense wasn't teaching their students how to win tournaments. We were taught how survive and win real fights!


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## Reedone816 (May 15, 2020)

just read the whole thread. respect to the all passionate ma.
here the trend in the last twenty years they called it maenpo,
maen peupeuhan in sundanese which in indonesian it directly translated as main poekoelan == striking game.

honest question for me, is it tjimindie or tjimande? since both places are really exist here. 

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## Mas Tom (May 15, 2020)

Reedone816 said:


> just read the whole thread. respect to the all passionate ma.
> here the trend in the last twenty years they called it maenpo,
> maen peupeuhan in sundanese which in indonesian it directly translated as main poekoelan == striking game.
> 
> ...



Hello! The style I was taught by Mas Roy Wetzel is Penjak Silat Poekoelan Tjimindie with an "ie" I was taught that "Tjimindie" means beautiful flowing waters & a city by the sea. I've done some recent research & from my understanding the difference in spelling is due to a Dutch pronunciation. I hope this helps! Keep an eye out for my new Poekoelan school in the upcoming months. If you're a local Pittsburgh area resident stop by & say "hi" sometime!


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## Reedone816 (May 15, 2020)

thanks for the background information.
the explanation makes sense, tjimindie or modern writing as cimindi is based on two words, ci and mindi.
ci means water while mindi is a plant that's widly grown near beach/coast line.
while cimindi is also the name of distric under Cimahi (was under Bandung) , west java. where in the old days was or maybe still famous as a place where many thugs/pendekar reside since they have big street market there.

I sincerely hope success to your school. 

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## Sherrysews (Feb 9, 2021)

I just found this site. And I am so thankful to Rex Downie Jr. for answering a lot of my questions. 
I am in my sixties now but was a student of Roy’s in the Beaver Falls school from around 1974 to 1978.  
I remember when I started, Roy and Willie were both at the school , however Roy was the main teacher.  I was a very devoted student and  after the fight happened , I was in the audience (,along with  my fellow students) at the trial.  However, I have not been able to recall most of the details. I think, because I was traumatized at the time.  
I left the school in the late 70’s.
And always wondered what happened to Roy.
I also became a Christian. And was overjoyed when I read in Rex Downie Jr.‘s article that Roy had become a Christian also.
Thank you so much Rex for filling in the blanks(even though your article was written a while ago and I am just now reading it). Roy was a good man and a great teacher
   Sherry Forsberg


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## _Simon_ (Feb 10, 2021)

I have absolutely zero idea why I'm subscribed to this thread... I have no idea what anyone is talking about haha!

But... hi!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Feb 10, 2021)

_Simon_ said:


> I have absolutely zero idea why I'm subscribed to this thread... I have no idea what anyone is talking about haha!
> 
> But... hi!


Did you perhaps subscribe to the indochinese MA subforum?


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## _Simon_ (Feb 10, 2021)

Monkey Turned Wolf said:


> Did you perhaps subscribe to the indochinese MA subforum?


Nah I didn't... ah well, an accidental click from my end maybe!


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