# Any Other Top Five Wung Chun Masters?



## DavyKOTWF (Aug 9, 2018)

As I understand it, Ip Man was only about 5'3" and weighed about 125 lbs, yet he was one of the top if not THE top WC guys ever.  Who are others?  Top 5 ever.  Is Master Wong, of youtube fame one?  William Cheung in his prime?  Are there any 180-190 to 200 lb top masters?   Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?  Just asking and curious as I'm new to WC.   I'd better clarify...top 5 as in best fighter and proper character/attitude combined.


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2018)

Best fighter is all opinion. I could come and say my mate John's the best ever doesn't make it true.


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## Martial D (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> As I understand it, Ip Man was only about 5'3" and weighed about 125 lbs, yet he was one of the top if not THE top WC guys ever.  Who are others?  Top 5 ever.  Is Master Wong, of youtube fame one?  William Cheung in his prime?  Are there any 180-190 to 200 lb top masters?   Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?  Just asking and curious as I'm new to WC.   I'd better clarify...top 5 as in best fighter and proper character/attitude combined.


Afaik none of those guys ever fought anyone. If you are interested in combative WC for fighting, check out Alan Orr.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

I'm quite sure that Master Wong from YouTube is not one of them. Beyond that, it's tough to accurately track this type of history.


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> As I understand it, Ip Man was only about 5'3" and weighed about 125 lbs, yet he was one of the top if not THE top WC guys ever.  Who are others?  Top 5 ever.  Is Master Wong, of youtube fame one?  William Cheung in his prime?  Are there any 180-190 to 200 lb top masters?   Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?  Just asking and curious as I'm new to WC.   I'd better clarify...top 5 as in best fighter and proper character/attitude combined.


Also why was ip Man one of the best....genuine question what did he have that made him the best...was it because he was Bruce lees teacher or the fact he's had a few movies based around him? I'm not saying he was bad but if I'm going to say someone's the best I want some proof of why they're so good. Yeah ip mans probably the most famous but most famous doesn't equal the best


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> I'm quite sure that Master Wong from YouTube is not one of them. Beyond that, it's tough to accurately track this type of history.


My god that guy pisses me off


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Also why was ip Man one of the best....genuine question what did he have that made him the best...was it because he was Bruce lees teacher or the fact he's had a few movies based around him? I'm not saying he was bad but if I'm going to say someone's the best I want some proof of why they're so good. Yeah ip mans probably the most famous but most famous doesn't equal the best



It's all folk history. Not saying that some of it isn't true, but it's very difficult to draw definitive conclusions from it. All Chinese Martial Arts have legends that involve their founders being superior and perhaps there is something to some of them, but there is really no way for us to know. We can only assess the value of what they've passed down and made available to us in our own lives and time.


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## wckf92 (Aug 9, 2018)

If you wanna be the man, ya gotta beat the man
~ Neegan


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

I would put dan inosanto on that list, but oddly not for his wing chun.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Best fighter is all opinion. I could come and say my mate John's the best ever doesn't make it true.


Except John may actually BE the best ever (key word is may)


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> As I understand it, Ip Man was only about 5'3" and weighed about 125 lbs, yet he was one of the top if not THE top WC guys ever.  Who are others?  Top 5 ever.  Is Master Wong, of youtube fame one?  William Cheung in his prime?  Are there any 180-190 to 200 lb top masters?   Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?  Just asking and curious as I'm new to WC.   I'd better clarify...top 5 as in best fighter and proper character/attitude combined.





kempodisciple said:


> I would put dan inosanto on that list, but oddly not for his wing chun.



I'm not sure that I understand your point, but in no way is Dan Inosanto one of the top 5 ... or top 100 ... Wing Chun masters of all time.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> I'm not sure that I understand your point, but in no way is Dan Inosanto one of the top 5 ... or top 100 ... Wing Chun masters of all time.


He is a wing chun guy whom i would list as a top fighter, for other reasons entirely divorced from wing chun. So technically he fits, but not for wing chun purposes.


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## Steve (Aug 9, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Best fighter is all opinion. I could come and say my mate John's the best ever doesn't make it true.


I dont know.   John's pretty good.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> He is a wing chun guy whom i would list as a top fighter, for other reasons entirely divorced from wing chun. So technically he fits, but not for wing chun purposes.



I don't claim to be an expert on Dan Inosanto, but to my knowledge, he is not a Wing Chun guy.


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 9, 2018)

1) Who is John??
2) Why is everyone down on Master Wong?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> I don't claim to be an expert on Dan Inosanto, but to my knowledge, he is not a Wing Chun guy.


I may be wrong, but im pretty certain that he learned wing chun for a time, purely to improve his jkd stuff. My original post to the OP qas tongue in cheek though.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> 1) Who is John??
> 2) Why is everyone down on Master Wong?


John is quite possibly one of the best fighters of all time. Or, at least, one of the best fighters of this century so far. Dont want to be making any farfetched claims


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> ... My original post to the OP qas tongue in cheek though.



Okay, sorry I took the bait, I'm a little sleep deprived and my filter may be off. 



DavyKOTWF said:


> 1) Who is John??
> 2) Why is everyone down on Master Wong?



Davy, you say you're new to Wing Chun, it would help me to understand your perspective better. Tell us about where you are studying and how long you've been doing it.


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 9, 2018)

ShortBridge said:


> Okay, sorry I took the bait, I'm a little sleep deprived and my filter may be off.
> 
> 
> 
> Davy, you say you're new to Wing Chun, it would help me to understand your perspective better. Tell us about where you are studying and how long you've been doing it.



Read my post in the introduction section, ShortBridge.    I'm real, not a troll.  
This John guy, ha, is this just an inside joke?  Seems so.  
   Noone's ventured an answer to one or my original questions.  Easy to miss a question embedded further down I suppose.  Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> Read my post in the introduction section, ShortBridge.    I'm real, not a troll.
> This John guy, ha, is this just an inside joke?  Seems so.
> Noone's ventured an answer to one or my original questions.  Easy to miss a question embedded further down I suppose.  Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?



Didn't mean to suggest or imply that you were a troll. Never occurred to me, actually. Just trying to understand your perspective so that I could better dialogue with you.

I think "John" is a joke, but it wasn't my comment, so I won't say for sure. 

I did answer your question. Chinese history is largely folk history, especially where Martial Arts is concerned. We don't know what I would like to and I don't think that it is entirely knowable. The various lineages all have their (our) own folk histories that put our Si Gung's at the top of that exclusive list and it gets argued and debated ad nauseam (which I won't contribute to). It doesn't lead anywhere and never gets resolved and it's all but destroyed any cohesive Wing Chun community. People are just arguing their bias and for the legend that they were taught.

It's much worse, for us Wing Chun guys, when you start bringing people in who were not actually Wing Chun practitioners. Because of Bruce Lee, who was a gifted individual, but an intermediate Wing Chun student at best (and not a Wing Chun sifu), everyone associated with or who is a fan of Bruce Lee has their followers arguing for them as well. It's a rat hole. 

There are a few credible people who have actually put the time into the research to sort of answer the question that you originally asked, but even their conclusions are points of contention. I am not one of those people, but I recommend the book "Complete Wing Chun", but Rene Ritchie, Robert Chu, and Y. Wu as a source of some of that type of research. I'm not endorsing their conclusions, necessarily, my position is as originally stated "I really don't think it's possible to know."

Focus on training, understanding, and applying Wing Chun as long as it holds your interest and supports your goals.


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## Headhunter (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> Read my post in the introduction section, ShortBridge.    I'm real, not a troll.
> This John guy, ha, is this just an inside joke?  Seems so.
> Noone's ventured an answer to one or my original questions.  Easy to miss a question embedded further down I suppose.  Do shorter guys have an advantage in speed?


Go bask and read the comments...it was an example....I could say some random guy is the best ever doesn't make it the truth....that's why there's no such thing as the best it's all opinion


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 9, 2018)

Yeah, easy to misunderstand the written word, without any voice or visual clues.  No worries.
    Thanks for the reply Troy.  Yes, I'm already seeing that there is much, MUCH division and argument in WC.    I don't care.  I'll focus on the important things as you said.  Haha, I've blown my entire retirement check in the last 5 days buying books, dvd's, other things.  Might have to wait on your book till next paycheck.  That one book i'm reading, Tao of WC, is giving some really good insights on the history.  The author is being very open minded and discussing all the possible versions.
  I meant no one had answered my question about 'do short guys/gals have more speed/quickness than tall guys'.   Sugar Ray Leonard was one of the fastest, but then I guess Ali was too.  Then Ip Man must have been incredibly fast, as was BL.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> 1) Who is John??
> 2) Why is everyone down on Master Wong?


Master wong is funny, but I've seen people Argue he's not 'real' wing chun. As for john, he's like Dave. And everyone knows Dave.


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## Martial D (Aug 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Master wong is funny, but I've seen people Argue he's not 'real' wing chun. As for john, he's like Dave. And everyone knows Dave.



John is over rated. He might be able to beat 5 armed attackers, but what if there is 6?

Wong is a good showman, but even then he trys way too hard most of the time. He is a wing chun guy, but exactly where that WC comes from is something he wont come clean about. Maybe nowhere.


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## ShortBridge (Aug 9, 2018)

DavyKOTWF said:


> ...
> I meant no one had answered my question about 'do short guys/gals have more speed/quickness than tall guys'.   ...



In answer to that question, I don't think so, necessarily. People have to use their physiology to their advantage, which means that people who practice the same system will adjust and adapt their structure and how they move to their body type. But, I've seen a variety of people lock themselves into some very good kung fu for their physiology and others with similar bodies fail to do so.


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## DavyKOTWF (Aug 9, 2018)

I just read that it was JOHN that taught Master Wong.  John is 11th dan in Wing Chun I believe.  And both were of the lineage of GGM Dave.


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## KPM (Aug 9, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> I may be wrong, but im pretty certain that he learned wing chun for a time, purely to improve his jkd stuff. My original post to the OP qas tongue in cheek though.



Inosanto learned Wing Chun from Moy Yat early in his martial arts career.  Throughout his martial arts career he has brought Francis Fong into his school to do Wing Chun seminars multiple times, in which he participated.  So yeah, Inosanto knows Wing Chun.  But I agree that it isn't his Wing Chun that earns him a spot on any "best ever" list!  ;-)


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Aug 9, 2018)

KPM said:


> Inosanto learned Wing Chun from Moy Yat early in his martial arts career.  Throughout his martial arts career he has brought Francis Fong into his school to do Wing Chun seminars multiple times, in which he participated.  So yeah, Inosanto knows Wing Chun.  But I agree that it isn't his Wing Chun that earns him a spot on any "best ever" list!  ;-)


I knew he had that training somewhere in his list!


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## Danny T (Aug 9, 2018)

Guro Dan Inosanto has stated he has had 4 Wing Chun instructors with Sifu Francis Fong being his 4th beginning in 1981. They are both sifus and students of each other. With Guro Dan teaching Sifu Francis Jun Fan & Kali and Sifu Francis teaching Guro Dan Wing Chun. They continue today to share their arts with each other.


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## obi_juan_salami (Aug 10, 2018)

SUM NUNG


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## lansao (Aug 11, 2018)

I feel like the top five wouldn’t want to be nominated here.


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