# Where do I go to spar?



## FluidSound

Is there a possible place where I can go to spar with different types of opponents who learn different martial art styles? I don't want to join a gym I won't stay at or anything. I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring. Also, I wish to learn other martial arts as well. Are there any places or ways I can find people to spar with in order to improve my self defense and martial art capabilities? My gym doesn't include sparring in it. We all do pushing hands.


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## Cyriacus

FluidSound said:


> Is there a possible place where I can go to spar with different types of opponents who learn different martial art styles?* I don't want to join a gym I won't stay at or anything.* _I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring._ *Also, I wish to learn other martial arts as well.* Are there any places or ways I can find people to spar with in order to improve my self defense and martial art capabilities? _My gym doesn't include sparring in it. We all do pushing hands._



To the Plain Text:
Many MMA Gyms. But theres more to it than just "Apply Tai Chi Quan in Sparring", because it isnt designed for Sparring.

To The Italic:
Tai Chi Quan is not designed for Sparring, hence why You do different exercises.
Sparring is not Self Defense or Fighting, its exactly what the label says it is. Sparring. The same goes for all the things any given Boxer can do that They dont do in Sparring. Like Headlocks. And trying to apply what You know to a different format is good and all, but going to Gyms to fight people whove trained extra specially to hit You in a certain way is also a good way to get Your confidence shot down. Itd be like getting a Learner Wrestler to go to a Boxing Gym full of Competitors and expect to not get punched in the face. Again, its not a bad idea. But now:

To the Bold:
You dont want to join a Gym You wont stay at, but You wish to learn other Martial Arts?
The solution is this:

Scrap what You want to do now. Scrap it.
Train Tai Chi Quan as Tai Chi Quan is trained, and train whatever else, as it is meant to be trained.
You can start applying idealogies from one in the other after about 1-3 years.
Until then, keep Them as separate things.


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## FluidSound

Hm... Alright. I guess that makes sense. Still, I have no confidence to begin with and I'm not one to whine over a loss. I take a loss in a fight, in practice, sparring, or anything to be a learning experience rather than a way to shoot down my confidence. I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.

I'm troubled at saying what I wish to say. When I say, I want to learn other martial arts, I mean, I wish to join other gyms for those martial arts. But, currently, I wish to stay at my gym and spar without having to join another martial art gym. I wish to learn other people's styles in order to know how to counter it and as a way to apply self defense in real life too. Because, honestly, I'm a small guy and I don't build muscle very well. But, I don't want to really hurt anyone either. I think that's why I like Tai Chi Quan. Because it focuses on taking the opponent's energy and throwing it back at them. Or I should say, throw them off balance, based on their momentum.

But, I guess I understand. Though, I wouldn't mind getting beat down if I know it's going to happen. If I never challenge anyone, then what experience will I gain?


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## Cyriacus

FluidSound said:


> Hm... Alright. I guess that makes sense. Still, I have no confidence to begin with



Then maybe Tai Chi Quan isnt for You.



> and I'm not one to whine over a loss. I take a loss in a fight, in practice, sparring, or anything to be a learning experience rather than a way to shoot down my confidence.



It isnt about being a good loser. I used a Wrestler Boxer analogy because the Wrestler has learnt to Grapple. The Boxer has spent hours upon thousands of hours practicing punching people really hard. If the Wrestler then proceeds to Box the Boxer, what do You THINK will happen. If the Boxer went to a Wrestling Gym and Wrestled a Wrestler, His sole defense would be physical strength.



> I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.



Obviously. But going to spar, say, an MMA Fighter under the Rules of MMA will not make You better at Tai Chi Quan.



> I'm troubled at saying what I wish to say. When I say, I want to learn other martial arts, I mean, I wish to join other gyms for those martial arts. But, currently, I wish to stay at my gym and spar without having to join another martial art gym. I wish to learn other people's styles in order to know how to counter it and as a way to apply self defense in real life too.



It really wont amount to much. The only way You could even get close to what You want is to cross-train, keep both Systems seperate, and blend Them a bit where possible in a few years time. As for Self Defense, well trained Tai Chi Quan will serve You as well as anything else of its level. But if You need to SEE results sooner rather than later, learn something else.



> Because, honestly, I'm a small guy and I don't build muscle very well.



Size is irrelevant. Force, Speed, Balance, Focus, Reflexes, and Timing are consistent regardless of how much muscle You do or do not have.



> But, I don't want to really hurt anyone either.



I have bad news for You: If You are assaulted, the guy/s assaulting You? THEY want to hurt YOU.



> I think that's why I like Tai Chi Quan. Because it focuses on taking the opponent's energy and throwing it back at them. Or I should say, throw them off balance, based on their momentum.



It isnt quite so easy to apply that outside of Tai Chi Quan however, at least not on the level that it can be within itself.
Were You to go and spar in a Gym, all Youd learn is that its harder to turn peoples energy back when those people are trained to put Their energy into Their fists, feet, elbows, knees, or whatever it is Theyre using.
Aikido is based on stopping a committed attack.






This gentleman gets by, but count how many times He is struck. And this is not full contact. Why? Because They have been trained to hit Him. He has been trained to try not to get hit. But when both idealogies are used against each other, They clash. It largely just becomes Person VS Person, with both employing a different tactic.



> But, I guess I understand. Though, I wouldn't mind getting beat down if I know it's going to happen. If I never challenge anyone, then what experience will I gain?



Experience in Tai Chi Quan.
A System which is not based on Sparring.

And being beaten down wont be an enlightening experience, itll be a painful one that leaves marks and teaches You next to nothing about what You already know. All itll do is make You doubt most of what You think works.
If You never challenge anyone, Youll be staying within the boundaries of Tai Chi Quan. Sparring is a part of many systems - Hence why I suggested Cross Training.


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## K-man

How long have you been training Tai Chi Quan?


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## FluidSound

Cyriacus said:


> Then maybe Tai Chi Quan isnt for You.
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt about being a good loser. I used a Wrestler Boxer analogy because the Wrestler has learnt to Grapple. The Boxer has spent hours upon thousands of hours practicing punching people really hard. If the Wrestler then proceeds to Box the Boxer, what do You THINK will happen. If the Boxer went to a Wrestling Gym and Wrestled a Wrestler, His sole defense would be physical strength.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously. But going to spar, say, an MMA Fighter under the Rules of MMA will not make You better at Tai Chi Quan.
> 
> 
> 
> It really wont amount to much. The only way You could even get close to what You want is to cross-train, keep both Systems seperate, and blend Them a bit where possible in a few years time. As for Self Defense, well trained Tai Chi Quan will serve You as well as anything else of its level. But if You need to SEE results sooner rather than later, learn something else.
> 
> 
> 
> Size is irrelevant. Force, Speed, Balance, Focus, Reflexes, and Timing are consistent regardless of how much muscle You do or do not have.
> 
> 
> 
> I have bad news for You: If You are assaulted, the guy/s assaulting You? THEY want to hurt YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> It isnt quite so easy to apply that outside of Tai Chi Quan however, at least not on the level that it can be within itself.
> Were You to go and spar in a Gym, all Youd learn is that its harder to turn peoples energy back when those people are trained to put Their energy into Their fists, feet, elbows, knees, or whatever it is Theyre using.
> Aikido is based on stopping a committed attack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This gentleman gets by, but count how many times He is struck. And this is not full contact. Why? Because They have been trained to hit Him. He has been trained to try not to get hit. But when both idealogies are used against each other, They clash. It largely just becomes Person VS Person, with both employing a different tactic.
> 
> 
> 
> Experience in Tai Chi Quan.
> A System which is not based on Sparring.
> 
> And being beaten down wont be an enlightening experience, itll be a painful one that leaves marks and teaches You next to nothing about what You already know. All itll do is make You doubt most of what You think works.
> If You never challenge anyone, Youll be staying within the boundaries of Tai Chi Quan. Sparring is a part of many systems - Hence why I suggested Cross Training.




I see... Alright. I still wish to continue Tai Chi though in order for me to learn how to relax and because, I still want it to be my martial art. Also, what is Cross Training?

@K-man

I've been doing it for... I'd estimate a year or more. Though, I want to learn more because, I'm kind of interested in learning how to fight efficiently and will work hard to do so. It'd teach a lot of good experiences, I'd hope. I eventually, if I ever get good enough, would like to try Chen Style.


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## Tez3

Cyriacus said:


> To the Plain Text:
> *Many MMA Gyms*. But theres more to it than just "Apply Tai Chi Quan in Sparring", because it isnt designed for Sparring.
> 
> To The Italic:
> Tai Chi Quan is not designed for Sparring, hence why You do different exercises.
> Sparring is not Self Defense or Fighting, its exactly what the label says it is. Sparring. The same goes for all the things any given Boxer can do that They dont do in Sparring. Like Headlocks. And trying to apply what You know to a different format is good and all, but going to Gyms to fight people whove trained extra specially to hit You in a certain way is also a good way to get Your confidence shot down. Itd be like getting a Learner Wrestler to go to a Boxing Gym full of Competitors and expect to not get punched in the face. Again, its not a bad idea. But now:
> 
> To the Bold:
> You dont want to join a Gym You wont stay at, but You wish to learn other Martial Arts?
> The solution is this:
> 
> Scrap what You want to do now. Scrap it.
> Train Tai Chi Quan as Tai Chi Quan is trained, and train whatever else, as it is meant to be trained.
> You can start applying idealogies from one in the other after about 1-3 years.
> Until then, keep Them as separate things.




Most MMA gyms won't allow someone to walk in and start sparring, they are no different from TMA places in that respect. You have to train MMA and often they don't spar every session, much of the the time is spent drilling and learning with sparring being done when they feel student is ready. Sparring isn't a big a part of MMA as many seem to think, there's a lot of learning to be done first. it's important yes but it's controlled and is also done 'MMA' style as it's for competiting against other MMA fighters in competition, having someone come in to 'test' their style is of no use to them frankly and probably of no use to the person either.


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## Cyriacus

Tez3 said:


> Most MMA gyms won't allow someone to walk in and start sparring, they are no different from TMA places in that respect. You have to train MMA and often they don't spar every session, much of the the time is spent drilling and learning with sparring being done when they feel student is ready. Sparring isn't a big a part of MMA as many seem to think, there's a lot of learning to be done first. it's important yes but it's controlled and is also done 'MMA' style as it's for competiting against other MMA fighters in competition, having someone come in to 'test' their style is of no use to them frankly and probably of no use to the person either.


At the time, I was still under the impression that He wanted to learn another Style, as the OP did imply.

It is clarified in the replies that follow.


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## Tez3

Cyriacus said:


> At the time, I was still under the impression that He wanted to learn another Style, as the OP did imply.
> 
> It is clarified in the replies that follow.



We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.


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## Cyriacus

Tez3 said:


> We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.


Fair
I dont know too much about that side of MMA - Im fortunate enough to have learnt about its not-during-competition elements after starting training, so Im without preconception


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## WC_lun

Most tai Chi is not taught for self defense, but rather health.  If you want to learn to fight, first make sure that what you are learning focuses on that.  Make sure that when you are training for self defense, there are underlying concepts and principles to the system (a good tai chi school does have these) as well as a solid training regemin.  This gives you a solid base to rely upon if you do have to fight.  

Tai Chi is very hard to use in real combat unless very experienced.  Its not that it is any worse or better than other martial arts, it is just in the nature of how it aproaches fighting.  Redirecting direct line, hard attacks is not easy.  In a sporting enviroment, with safety equipment like gloves on, it becomes even more difficult.  Before you go out testing what you know, test it in your training hall.  Talk to your sifu about your concerns.  Any decent sifu will make sure they are addressed in some manner.


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## Tez3

Cyriacus said:


> Fair
> I dont know too much about that side of MMA - Im fortunate enough to have learnt about its not-during-competition elements after starting training, so Im without preconception



Some MMA haters who do TMA's are disappointed when they see we train exactly as they do lol!


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## Cyriacus

Tez3 said:


> Some MMA haters who do TMA's are disappointed when they see we train exactly as they do lol!


I cant remember where I heard this, but, and this isnt exact, "The best way to get good at punching, is by punching. How and what You punch comes into it, but one things for sure: We're all learning how to throw a punch, even if the punch is different. And theres only so many ways to do that. How many styles dont have a straight punch of some sort?"


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## Tez3

Cyriacus said:


> I cant remember where I heard this, but, and this isnt exact, "The best way to get good at punching, is by punching. How and what You punch comes into it, but one things for sure: We're all learning how to throw a punch, even if the punch is different. And theres only so many ways to do that. How many styles dont have a straight punch of some sort?"



MMA uses TMA techniques so if it works we do it. Sorry only short answers today am on phone in a Northern English airport my effort for the Olympics lol..annoying foreigners arriving lol.


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## K-man

FluidSound said:


> I see... Alright. I still wish to continue Tai Chi though in order for me to learn how to relax and because, I still want it to be my martial art. Also, what is Cross Training?
> 
> @K-Man
> 
> I've been doing it for... I'd estimate a year or more. Though, I want to learn more because, I'm kind of interested in learning how to fight efficiently and will work hard to do so. It'd teach a lot of good experiences, I'd hope. I eventually, if I ever get good enough, would like to try Chen Style.


OK. Cross Training is training a different style of martial art to complement your main style.  In that context I teach karate but train aikido to give me a greater understanding of my karate.

As you have only been training Tai Chi Quan for a year so so, I wouldn't be looking at any other style for some time.  It takes a long time with a good teacher to get to the stage where you could use Tai Chi for self defence. If you want to have a martial art for self defence in a sort time, then you might have to change styles. If you are happy to keep going with your Tai Chi, then give youself a few more years then perhaps look at something like wing chun to add to your training. I have a couple of mates who have added Tai Chi to their karate but I'm not sure that would work in reverse.     :asian:


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## Supra Vijai

Tez3 said:


> MMA uses TMA techniques so if it works we do it. Sorry only short answers today am on phone in a Northern English airport my effort for the Olympics lol..annoying foreigners arriving lol.



Aren't you glad I wasn't one of those annoying foreigners?  Work wanted a few of us to head over but I'd miss too much training time here so declined


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## Tez3

Supra Vijai said:


> Aren't you glad I wasn't one of those annoying foreigners?  Work wanted a few of us to head over but I'd miss too much training time here so declined



But you're not a foreigner, as an Aussie you're one of us! besides no flights from Oz come in where I am. Americans coming in though lol! they seem surprised to see cops with guns though.
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/Destinations


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## Supra Vijai

Tez3 said:


> But you're not a foreigner, as an Aussie you're one of us! besides no flights from Oz come in where I am. Americans coming in though lol! they seem surprised to see cops with guns though.
> http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/Destinations



Sigh... so even when I want to take you up on your offer of that guided tour of the UK, the universe conspires against us


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## FluidSound

Tez3 said:


> We have enough trouble with people thinking you can walk into an MMA gym and see people beating each other up as it is so I needed to point out that that's not what we do. Even if he wants to learn another style, MMA isn't necessarily the one he needs if he wants to spar.



Isn't MMA just a way of stating that you use both striking and grappling forms of martial arts? Anyways, I'm more or less stating, I want to learn application of my art more efficiently through fighting with others. Though, the day of that seems far less simple than it use to be.




WC_lun said:


> Most tai Chi is not taught for self defense, but rather health.  If you want to learn to fight, first make sure that what you are learning focuses on that.  Make sure that when you are training for self defense, there are underlying concepts and principles to the system (a good tai chi school does have these) as well as a solid training regemin.  This gives you a solid base to rely upon if you do have to fight.
> 
> Tai Chi is very hard to use in real combat unless very experienced.  Its not that it is any worse or better than other martial arts, it is just in the nature of how it aproaches fighting.  Redirecting direct line, hard attacks is not easy.  In a sporting enviroment, with safety equipment like gloves on, it becomes even more difficult.  Before you go out testing what you know, test it in your training hall.  Talk to your sifu about your concerns.  Any decent sifu will make sure they are addressed in some manner.



My Tai Chi instructor tends to show us how to apply Tai Chi in order to have a better understanding of what we're doing. He's quite strict with me, because he probably sees potential in me. I must learn the "Ten Important Points" of Yang Cheng-fu, the stances (Horse stance, half horse stance, the stance of seven, the archer stance, stool stance, snake stance, etc...), and I'm only done with the first Lu so far. There are 4 Lus for me to learn (I'm learning long form Tai Chi. 86.) After I learn those, he'll probably start me on application form and even possibly allow me to do sword, fan, or any other weapon form. We also practice Tiu Shou (Pushing hands) to get a better feel. Though, my biggest problem is apparently, relaxing.

Often times, my back may not be straight, my knee may be too stiff or my shoulders are lifted. I suppose that part will take time. Still, I do understand it takes a long time and work to get good at it. Especially the application and such. I treat Tai Chi, not as just a meditation, but a martial art. That was it's original purpose after all, no?



K-man said:


> OK. Cross Training is training a different style of martial art to complement your main style.  In that context I teach karate but train aikido to give me a greater understanding of my karate.
> 
> As you have only been training Tai Chi Quan for a year so so, I wouldn't be looking at any other style for some time.  It takes a long time with a good teacher to get to the stage where you could use Tai Chi for self defence. If you want to have a martial art for self defence in a sort time, then you might have to change styles. If you are happy to keep going with your Tai Chi, then give youself a few more years then perhaps look at something like wing chun to add to your training. I have a couple of mates who have added Tai Chi to their karate but I'm not sure that would work in reverse.     :asian:



I see. Well, I guess I could do that. Still, even if I learn a different style, I wish to continue Tai Chi. I have considered boxing for sport, but I'm not rich and can only stick to so many things at once.


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## oaktree

Hi FluidSound,


> I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring


I am unsure what you mean by sparring. Frankly there is plenty of drills in Taijiquan that should give you plenty to work with.
Here are some links to see som of the more martial side in Chen Taijiquan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_CC3GE18M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRUTrTmv4Dg&feature=related

If you are practicing your Tuishou like this, your teacher is teaching you Qinna, application, 2 man drills than that and your form is alot already.
Sparring will not help your Taijiquan until you are developed enough through Tuishou. You need to understand Tuishou how to listen, stick and yield, redirect which will far benefit your ability in using Taijiquan for self defense than going out and sparring like say in Karate. 



> I want to be able to practice and apply what I know, against someone that's willing to fight.


This will show you levels in which you go through till you get to a stage were you do free form exchanges. Again it all starts at Tuishou
http://en.renguangyi.net/articles/combat.html
I do not know your teacher or his methods but be patient with your practice if you have questions and concerns talk to your teacher about it, You do not need to learn to spar
to understand the principles of Taijiquan but you need to know the principles of Taijiquan in order to spar using Taijiquan principles.


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## Tez3

MMA isn't just a way of saying you use strikes and groundwork, it's what it says it is > mixed< martial arts, the use of many techniques from many styles in a competitive fight environment. It's physical chess, outwitting your opponent and winning the fight, it's knowing what to use when, it's using your opponents weaknesses against him, using your strengths and generally enjoying yourself in a fight! I've no idea what you mean by 'the day of that seems far less simple than it used to be'.


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## oaktree

Hi Fluid,


> I want to learn application of my art more efficiently through fighting with others.


I think you learn it more efficiently going through drills and tuishou. If you are having trouble relaxing then your shoulders will tense you will be off balance and easy to be pushed. It is much easier to learn to listen, yield, stick with someone else who is doing the same then it is to be trying to apply this to someone who is a boxer.

Wong Kiew Kit said on learning Taijiquan for combat that if you want to learn self defense quick, than study Thai boxing, because to get good at using Taijiquan for self defense correctly takes time. It takes time to develop listening and sensitivity.


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## Supra Vijai

FluidSound said:


> I have considered boxing for sport, *but I'm not rich* and can only stick to so many things at once.



You don't have to be rich to cross train, just need to be able to  commit the time and the mental discipline to stick to things. Most  places in my experience will offer a range of flexible payment options  and packages to suit most everyone. When I tried Krav Maga, the cost was  $15 a fortnight on a 1 year contract but that included a full kit of  gear (helmet, mouth/shin/forearm/elbow/chest guards, grappling mitts,  hand wraps, boxing gloves and the most important thing IMO - a solid groin guard)

I've  since stopped KM and have recently looked at a boxing gym - classes  haven't officially started yet because of ongoing issues with insurance  to do with actual sparring and matches but the cost is $10 a fortnight  and I just need my own bag gloves, hand mitts/wraps and mouthguard; all of  which I have anyway. That fee also allows me full use to the entire gym  plus any other classes they run such as Yoga, Pilates, Les Mills type  stuff, Tai Chi and BJJ. 

Something like the second if accessible  to yourself shouldn't strain the finances too badly and still offer you a  chance to face off against other opponents. Keep in mind though, as has  been said before: you will not be using Tai Chi Quan against boxing or  BJJ, you will be learning a whole new system and adding to your  skillset. If you can bring in aspects from your primary art and make them work within the framework of the secondary art, that would be a huge plus

EDITING TO ADD: Final point I'd like to put forth is that while enthusiasm is a great thing, I might suggest choosing several arts to crosstrain with at the outset will actually be detrimental to your learning. You've got a base in Tai Chi Quan, pick one other thing (Boxing/BJJ/Whatever) and stick to just those 2 for another year or 2 at a minimum. Once you get the basics down pat in both, if you still feel the need to, re-explore your options concerning more/other arts you might like to look into and experience. I doubt anyone here will give you flak if after a year you decide boxing isn't your thing and move onto something else.


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## FluidSound

Supra Vijai said:


> You don't have to be rich to cross train, just need to be able to  commit the time and the mental discipline to stick to things. Most  places in my experience will offer a range of flexible payment options  and packages to suit most everyone. When I tried Krav Maga, the cost was  $15 a fortnight on a 1 year contract but that included a full kit of  gear (helmet, mouth/shin/forearm/elbow/chest guards, grappling mitts,  hand wraps, boxing gloves and the most important thing IMO - a solid groin guard)
> 
> I've  since stopped KM and have recently looked at a boxing gym - classes  haven't officially started yet because of ongoing issues with insurance  to do with actual sparring and matches but the cost is $10 a fortnight  and I just need my own bag gloves, hand mitts/wraps and mouthguard; all of  which I have anyway. That fee also allows me full use to the entire gym  plus any other classes they run such as Yoga, Pilates, Les Mills type  stuff, Tai Chi and BJJ.
> 
> Something like the second if accessible  to yourself shouldn't strain the finances too badly and still offer you a  chance to face off against other opponents. Keep in mind though, as has  been said before: you will not be using Tai Chi Quan against boxing or  BJJ, you will be learning a whole new system and adding to your  skillset. If you can bring in aspects from your primary art and make them work within the framework of the secondary art, that would be a huge plus
> 
> EDITING TO ADD: Final point I'd like to put forth is that while enthusiasm is a great thing, I might suggest choosing several arts to crosstrain with at the outset will actually be detrimental to your learning. You've got a base in Tai Chi Quan, pick one other thing (Boxing/BJJ/Whatever) and stick to just those 2 for another year or 2 at a minimum. Once you get the basics down pat in both, if you still feel the need to, re-explore your options concerning more/other arts you might like to look into and experience. I doubt anyone here will give you flak if after a year you decide boxing isn't your thing and move onto something else.



Yeah probably not. And, payment plans for good teachers are... Not so easy around where I live. I've found very few places that charge less. Not to mention, I'm currently in College as well. Anyways, my Tai Chi classes are 60 dollars a month for instance, but that's reasonable compared to other places and prices I've seen. However, I've seen a Tai Chi class that costed less, BUT... Their instruction was very poor. They treated Tai Chi as if it was just some kind of typical Yoga class or something. Not to say Yoga is bad, I just think that I typically see poor instruction for Yoga. It seemed like the person teaching the less expensive course knew short form Tai Chi. Not only that, but it seemed like they didn't know much besides that.

My Sifu trained under the school of Cheng Dsu Yao and went through a lot. He learned a lot from his school and they were strict. Even making him hold the horse stance for more than an hour, with a stick up his backside. *Sigh* Anyhow, I think I will try this, in the future. Once I feel I have the funds to do so and the right school too. I might take the advice of learning Wing Chun.


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## Supra Vijai

FluidSound said:


> Yeah probably not. And, payment plans for good teachers are... Not so easy around where I live. I've found very few places that charge less. Not to mention, I'm currently in College as well. Anyways, my Tai Chi classes are 60 dollars a month for instance, but that's reasonable compared to other places and prices I've seen. However, I've seen a Tai Chi class that costed less, BUT... Their instruction was very poor. They treated Tai Chi as if it was just some kind of typical Yoga class or something. Not to say Yoga is bad, I just think that I typically see poor instruction for Yoga. It seemed like the person teaching the less expensive course knew short form Tai Chi. Not only that, but it seemed like they didn't know much besides that.



Yeah it's a fact that you get what you pay for - whether it's a knock off Iphone or a Rolex vs the Real thing or MA instruction. My current classes in my primary art are expensive purely based on a financial scale. $20 a class and a set annual membership fee. That said it's a 2 hour class, I get great instruction from someone with a wide range of skills and knowledge and most importantly, I get along with the instructor. Any art you choose, unless you get along with the instructor on some level, you aren't going to get the most out of your training. FWIW, I'm also a full time student; yes I work but I don't generally have large amounts of disposable income to throw about so for me personally it was a matter of patience and lots and lots of searching to find what I wanted for a price I was comfortable with. 



> My Sifu trained under the school of Cheng Dsu Yao and went through a lot. He learned a lot from his school and they were strict. Even making him hold the horse stance for more than an hour, with a stick up his backside. *Sigh* Anyhow, I think I will try this, in the future. Once I feel I have the funds to do so and the right school too. I might take the advice of learning Wing Chun.



The stick up the backside doesn't sound too fun, I must say.... Thing is Fluid, no one here will say you shouldn't cross train or look at other options, just to take your time doing things and making sure you do them right. That way you do justice to your primary and subsequent arts and also to yourself. From all accounts, Wing Chun is meant to be quite good in terms of adaptability to street type defense work so yeah that might be a solid choice for yourself. Don't get too discouraged if something doesn't happen straight away, just focus on being the best you can within Tai Chi Quan and keep your eyes and ears open for any options that may pop up in terms of training that suits your needs/wants. All the best


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## Mz1

FluidSound said:


> Is there a possible place where I can go to spar with different types of opponents who learn different martial art styles? I don't want to join a gym I won't stay at or anything. I practice Tai Chi Quan and feel that maybe I'll do better at it if I actually try to apply it in sparring. Also, I wish to learn other martial arts as well. Are there any places or ways I can find people to spar with in order to improve my self defense and martial art capabilities? My gym doesn't include sparring in it. We all do pushing hands.



It's almost impossible to find a free place where you can go and spar different types of Martial Artists. I've placed ads on Craiglist and such for years and renewed frequently and ads on Martial Arts board. I rarely get any responses. I've met a few guys and we did spar. Only 2 stuck around with me. One is a girl who I became good friends with. One guy had training and a few fights, so he liked it b/c it was cheaper to meet at a fitness gym vs. paying $120-150/mo w/12months contract for MMA gyms. Like 30 more inquiries never shows up, usually because they're scared.

Sparring is a touchy subject. Most people aren't willing to spar even in their own MA gym, let alone someone random over the internet. Sparring can range from touch sparring, to light and up to going for full knockouts. And things do get out of hand sometimes. Sparring means different things to different people. For me, I want to be able to go for headshots, ranging from light sparring to hard for KO's, otherwise it's not fun.

Good luck in finding a group though. The best group that I've seen is this one in Southern California:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsXrIueNGGU&list=PL305A16E51F7CC2E5&index=1&feature=plpp_video


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