# What does What



## marlon (Jun 29, 2005)

How much time does everyone spend learning what thier techniques do?  I know AK guys do however i find this lacking somewhat in SK.  How much better will you be if you understand the nature and effect of each strike you do in a combination?
Is this one of the best ways to become a good technicien?
Respectfully,
Marlon


----------



## rupton (Jun 29, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> How much time does everyone spend learning what thier techniques do?


I personally spend a lot of time.  I won't move on unless I have a pretty good understanding of what the technique does.  That doesn't mean I wait to perfect it but I certainly want to understand it so I practice it correctly.  I usually go through many reps by myself, start practicing with a partner then go through individual reps when my (a) partner isn't available.  But that's just me. 



> I know AK guys do however i find this lacking somewhat in SK. How much better will you be if you understand the nature and effect of each strike you do in a combination?


I'm wondering if this is a loaded question.  I think it's really the only way you'll understand the nature and affect of each technique. 



> Is this one of the best ways to become a good technicien?
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


I would say the only way.  How can you ever become proficient without the understanding of a technique?


----------



## bdparsons (Jun 29, 2005)

1. Understand the key steps in performing the technique, the purpose of the technique and its usefulness in your martial art tool box.

2. Break it down into smaller segments. Isolate and practice movements until you master the mechanics. 

3. Train the technique on as many partners as possible. Slow, medium and fast speed.

4. Functionalize the technique by using it in limited sparring situation. Integrate all or part of the technique into full sparring. 

5. Make the technique yours by understanding its strengths and weaknesses. Understand and use Kenpo concepts and principles present in the technique to improve the usefullness of the technique.

6. Evaluate logical exit points in the technique. These would be points at which you could disengage from the encounter safely assuming you need to go no further. Important in any self-defense situation

7. Consider points in the technique where you could blend or borrow or graft into another technique.

The "science" of working techniques is body positioning. It involves doing your best to position the attacker's body where you want. The "art" of techniques come when you have to change your game plan midstream, blending and borrowing as necessary. In a nutshell, it's recognizing "snapshots" of body positions and dealing with what you recognize as it happens.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute


----------



## MJS (Jun 29, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> How much time does everyone spend learning what thier techniques do?  I know AK guys do however i find this lacking somewhat in SK.  How much better will you be if you understand the nature and effect of each strike you do in a combination?
> Is this one of the best ways to become a good technicien?
> Respectfully,
> Marlon




Just like in the forms, its very important to fully understand what the moves are doing, as well as the desired result of each strike.  IMO, you'll be much better if you have that understanding rather than just going through the moves.

Mike


----------



## goshawk (Jun 29, 2005)

bdparsons said:
			
		

> The "science" of working techniques is body positioning. It involves doing your best to position the attacker's body where you want. The "art" of techniques come when you have to change your game plan midstream, blending and borrowing as necessary. In a nutshell, it's recognizing "snapshots" of body positions and dealing with what you recognize as it happens.


Okay, wow. For some reason, that "body snapshots" phrasing hit my brain just the right way to understand why it is that people tend to improvise/adapt better the longer they've been training. I've sort of known it intuitively, but never quite been able to pin it down. 

Jeez...:eers:: I'm going to have to look into that one. Makes a _lot_ of sense. Isn't it funny how a slightly different phrasing or way of putting the concept to words can make such a difference to how you understand it? Neat.

Anyways, just wanted to thank you for that.


----------



## bdparsons (Jun 30, 2005)

Glad it helps.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute


----------



## Kenpo_man (Jul 2, 2005)

I believe you should never quit trying to better the technique as long as you train. Once you learn all the moves and kata,what is left? Only to look at the techniques you already know and study them anew. Find out how to perform them better. Consider new followups. Consider all the "what if my attacker did this" scenarios. In our club, we are taught to do the techniques in a certain way but if a student finds a way to adapt it to better suit their individual build and style of fighting, my sensei is open to them using that way. For example, if somebody has small hands they will apply a wrist lock differently than a person with large hands. Once you learn a technique you have a guideline to follow and explore on your own. I would rather know only ten moves and practice them daily for the rest of my life than learn a new one every day.


----------



## kevin kilroe (Jul 3, 2005)

Your action(block, strike, kick, etc.) causes a reaction by your opponent( bend forward, bend backward, drop to one knee, etc.), which sets up your next action(punch, kick, joint lock, etc). Knowing the way the body reacts to different strikes is a big plus. Mr. Parker likened it to playing pool. Your shot wants to leave you in position for your next shot, or leave your opponent where he has no shot.

kevin kilroe


----------



## still learning (Jul 3, 2005)

Hello, They say it takes 2000-3000 times doing the same striking/defending skills to make it a part of your natural reactions. (Kempo stuffs).

 If after your first strike and if the person reacts differently(the way you train for a certain strike) than you will have to adjust. If you have to think about what to do next, you lose the chance to have the advantage.

 The hardest part of our training is to continune without thinking and just do it(striking/blocking/takedowns/etcs.) At the same time know when to stop/control/run/ etcs........Easy? Hard? .........maybe that's why our training will never stop..........................Aloha


----------



## bdparsons (Jul 4, 2005)

still learning said:
			
		

> If after your first strike and if the person reacts differently(the way you train for a certain strike) than you will have to adjust. If you have to think about what to do next, you lose the chance to have the advantage.
> 
> The hardest part of our training is to continune without thinking and just do it...



I believe this process is accomplished primarily through repetition as you mentioned. Pick any physical endeavor that someone does well and you'll find that 99 times out of 100 it's done well because of repetiton.

In relation to the martial arts even those disciplines that don't practice "techniques" per se do rely heavily on repetiton in their training. Anytime someone mentions "reading" their attacker or opponent it's based on recognizing something they've seen before.

In my opinion this speaks directly to recognizing relative body positions that I spoke of in an earlier post. It's my contention that technique based systems such as Kenpo and Hapkido teach relative body position recognition more efficiently, and therefore more effectively, than other systems. Again, just my opinion, nothing more. There are some that will say that this will lead to the necessity of learning more and more and more techniques, but I believe that learning relative body positions effectively actually speaks against this practice.

If we think of effective self-defense there is really only so much to deal with. On a basic level of attack from the front or rear we're dealing with being inside or outside a right and inside or outside a left. You can take these four options and place them on different planes of height, width and depth, but they are essentially the same. Sometimes we choose, sometimes we don't, but the basic recognition factor doesn't change. When the brain recognizes the relative position the blocks, strikes (hands, feet, elbows, knees), grabs, checks, foot maneuvers, etc. that you've learned through repetition will/should kick in depending on the quality of your training. That being said it may actually be more beneficial to study fewer techniques rather than more, provided they deal with the four relative body positions and that you're always willing to keep your mind open to more possiblities. I think you will find that the "adjustment" process will become so inate that an third person perspective would see no hesitation at all, perceiving just a continuous flow of movement.

Just another voice in the wilderness.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute


----------



## DavidCC (Jul 5, 2005)

marlon said:
			
		

> How much time does everyone spend learning what thier techniques do? I know AK guys do however i find this lacking somewhat in SK. How much better will you be if you understand the nature and effect of each strike you do in a combination?
> Is this one of the best ways to become a good technicien?
> Respectfully,
> Marlon


I guess I'm not sure what you mean "what the strikes do"... when you practice are you making enough contact to get the correct reaction from your opponent?  It almost sounds like you are just practicing "in the air" and if so you will neer get these nuances you are looking for.  What body reaction to expect from any specifc stimulus (a strike, a block, a movement etc) is a core of our training (and it is Shaolin Kempo).


----------



## Brother John (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm going to continue exploring and learning "why my techniques do" for the rest of my life!!!

There's FAR too much learning and growing to be done for me to think I'm anywhere near done.....
Ever.


Your Brother
John


----------



## marlon (Jul 5, 2005)

Yes in training we make enough contact to see some of what would happen in terms of body positioning. However, b/c of some AK guys and a book my teacher recommended i started looking into the extent of the damage specific strikes do. That was part of the question, the other part comes from the technial degree of description found in EPAK even in beginner belts. I find that they describe what is happening to thier opponents body almnost as if it is part of the technique. Most SK students do not speak of thier techniques the same way and only advanced students seem to really grasp what is happening to verbalize it. The techniques still work and therwe is still good hard training going on, it is just a different approach. So i guess more specifically my question goes to what approch do you feel more comfortable3 with and why and the pros and cons of each. I have encountered some very good AK fighters and all knew this aspect and so so-so fighters but they too knew this aspect and the same goes for SK. so it is not a question of which style is better but to understand others opinions of the relative merits of both teaching methods. Different roads all leading to the same place.

That being said i have met some Sk BB who had spent very little time understanding what thier strikes did and subsequently could not "understand" how some techniques worked and therefore inhbited thier teaching ability.  I have never encountered this in AK


Respectfully,
Marlon


----------



## Kenpobuff (Jul 15, 2005)

I agree with the others.  We never teach or learn a technique, or form for that matter, without first understanding each move involved and its implications and/or reaction to an opponent's move.

A few times I have asked others of different styles or kenpo versions "what was that move for" and I get shrugged shoulders.  Then I just roll my eyes and carry on.  Mr. Parker designed this art for a specific purpose, amazingly enough, where each movement is for a reason we should at least know what it's for.  You never know who may ask you.

Just my experience, but then again I'm still learning.

Steve


----------



## Doc (Jul 16, 2005)

kevin kilroe said:
			
		

> Your action(block, strike, kick, etc.) causes a reaction by your opponent( bend forward, bend backward, drop to one knee, etc.), which sets up your next action(punch, kick, joint lock, etc). Knowing the way the body reacts to different strikes is a big plus. Mr. Parker likened it to playing pool. Your shot wants to leave you in position for your next shot, or leave your opponent where he has no shot.
> 
> kevin kilroe


Absolutely correct. Now the trick is, "how" you do that.


----------



## kevin kilroe (Jul 16, 2005)

A general "rule" is hit the soft spots from the front, they bend forward. Hit the hard spots from the front, they go back. Hit the soft spots from the back, the bend back. Hit the hard spots from the back, they go forward.

kevin kilroe


----------

