# Debut of Christian Kempo!



## Yondanchris (Jun 17, 2012)

Okay some of you know I have been working on my thesis for 4th Dan. Due to the nature of the thesis and urging from instructors and friends I have decided to "upgrade" the bill of goods I was teaching my students and provide them with something that might actually save them on the street. ....so after 2 years and a lot of hard work and input from my seniors I give you the debut of "Christian Kempo":

[video=youtube_share;0cjGWxqeL-0]http://youtu.be/0cjGWxqeL-0[/video]

Chris


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## Milt G. (Jun 17, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> Okay some of you know I have been working on my thesis for 4th Dan. Due to the nature of the thesis and urging from instructors and friends I have decided to "upgrade" the bill of goods I was teaching my students and provide them with something that might actually save them on the street. ....so after 2 years and a lot of hard work and input from my seniors I give you the debut of "Christian Kempo":
> 
> [video=youtube_share;0cjGWxqeL-0]http://youtu.be/0cjGWxqeL-0[/video]
> 
> Chris



Looks interesting, Chris...
So, why did you did you change the technique names, and the techniques themselves?
Just curious.

I do agree that many of the standard techniques are somewhat less applicable today (from purely a self-defense standpoint) then when they were originally developed.
As written, anyway.  And like the bible, are open to individual interpretation.  
Everything just seems more "fluid" these days.  Time moves on and things change.  
With some "tweaking" the originals are still useful, I think?

I enjoyed it.  Thanks for posting!  
Milt G.


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## Yondanchris (Jun 18, 2012)

Milt G. said:


> Looks interesting, Chris...
> So, why did you did you change the technique names, and the techniques themselves?
> Just curious.
> 
> ...



I changed the technique names to fit with the philosophy behind the art and to fit with the "web of knowledge" or probably better titled the "Orchard of Knowledge" extrapolated from the system of techniques in Christian Kempo. I also wanted to continue certain techniques from several different kenpo/kempo origins without offending the parent system (Politics).

I believe that Mr. Parker understood this when writing the Infinate Insight series of books and with this common quote:..."When I am gone I hope people won't try to traditionalize my art. I want you to always remember that kenpo will always be the art of perpetual change. If you remember this, then the art will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. While the ignorant refuse to study and the intelligent never stop, we should always be mindful of the fact that our reward in life is proportionate with the contributions we make. A true martial artist is not one who fears change, but one who causes it to happen. To live is to change, and to obtain perfection is to have changed often" - Mr. Parker

I do believe there is a singular method of Biblical interpretation, but there are certain passages that can be difficult without a basic understanding of hermeneutics and exegesis. I am a big proponent of literal interpretation wherever possible. 

With any technique the application can be useful with understanding of the phases of the technique (solid-mechanical, liquid-flowing, gaseous-free form, and Plasma-Fully integrated) I prefer to use the terms Ideal - Even if - Ideal when dealing with the permutations of techniques. 

I hope this answered your questions. 

Chris


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## Milt G. (Jun 19, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> I changed the technique names to fit with the philosophy behind the art and to fit with the "web of knowledge" or probably better titled the "Orchard of Knowledge" extrapolated from the system of techniques in Christian Kempo. I also wanted to continue certain techniques from several different kenpo/kempo origins without offending the parent system (Politics).
> 
> I believe that Mr. Parker understood this when writing the Infinate Insight series of books and with this common quote:..."When I am gone I hope people won't try to traditionalize my art. I want you to always remember that kenpo will always be the art of perpetual change. If you remember this, then the art will never become obsolete because it will change with the times. While the ignorant refuse to study and the intelligent never stop, we should always be mindful of the fact that our reward in life is proportionate with the contributions we make. A true martial artist is not one who fears change, but one who causes it to happen. To live is to change, and to obtain perfection is to have changed often" - Mr. Parker
> 
> ...



That does answer my questions, Chris.
Thank you.

I think that many in Kenpo cling too tightly to the individual techniques, and how they relate to the ideal phase.
The technique is only a teaching tool, in my opinion.
The actual purpose of a technique is to teach overall movement, general sequencing, and motion in the practitioner.  Not to just teach the technique.  
Too many think of Kenpo as "just" the techniques, and are too "stiff" in their understanding.

Thanks for sharing.
Keep up the good work.
Milt G.


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## Instructor (Jun 19, 2012)

Way to go Chris!


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## Zoran (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello Chris, I am assuming you are up for some constructive critique. 

*Obscure Kimono*: It appears to be a more realistic push followed by a pull-punch combo. First, I applaud on the more realistic attack. Second, reviewing the video I will have to say it will be likely that you will get hit if you do the block as it is done in the video. Since the pull and punch tend to happen together, and the block is anchored to your body, it is likely that the punch will connect before the body is in position to block. I would prefer to do a block that is not anchored to the body where the block moves ahead of the body rotation. Personally, I would prefer an outward strike, like a handblade or palm-claw. This would also work well as a block if the punch is en route. 

Anyways, just a thought.


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## Yondanchris (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the input Zoran, 

We strive to influence our Kempo through the contact-resistance method including "realistic" attacks rather than The zombie or traditional karate punches commonly seen. 

I watched the video and I can see what you are talking about, in this case I feel as it was an "attacker" error. In this case my student was getting used to being on camera and is also getting used to being an UKE. I take full responsibility and have been recording purple-black material with a more experienced black belt UKE. 

Thanks, 

Chris


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## Yondanchris (Jun 20, 2012)

Trinity Karate for Christ &#8211; Christian Kempo,
who we are;


Senior Instructor (SIFU) Christopher Stewart
Head Instructor - Advisor (SIGUNG) Clark D. Cole
Junior Instructor - Advisor (SIFU) Jack D. Cole

Siha Katrina Paglinawan
Sihing Albert Hung

We use the Chinese designations on a daily basis, each persons rank is less important than when they joined the family of Kempo.

*Our Lineage/s,*
American Kenpo - Ed Parker - Pat Salantri &#8211; Clark Cole &#8211; Chris Stewart
Shaolin Kempo &#8211; Nick Cerio &#8211; Fred Villarri &#8211; Charles Matterra &#8211; Greg Jones &#8211; Chris Stewart
Christian Kempo &#8211; Chris Stewart

*What we teach,*
54 core basic techniques through 1st black belt.
Short and Long  Form.
17 Sets (Organized Basics)

Our prime training method is;

Break Stance and Contact Resistance methods.
Break Stance is motion based ground up Kenpo Karate. 
"Hips control feet, feet control hands, elbows aim strikes and knees aim kicks". 
Contact Resistance is a hands on method of training that relies on realistic and focused attacks that highlight the strengths and weaknesses of your techniques and the basics within them. Hot Hands served here!

If you want to see how I approach Kempo, go to you tube and type in Christian Kempo.

For more information please visit our website: www.trinitykarateforchrist.com 

Christian Kempo Taught Here, 
Chris Stewart S.I. (Christian Kempo)


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## Zoran (Jun 20, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> I watched the video and I can see what you are talking about, in this case I feel as it was an *"attacker" error*. In this case my student was getting used to being on camera and is also getting used to being an UKE. I take full responsibility and have been recording purple-black material with a more experienced black belt UKE.



Very well but a word of caution, "attacker error" should be a part of the equation. Sometimes newer practitioners can be a better measure of what one may encounter than a trained black belt.


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## Doc (Jun 20, 2012)

I am speechless.


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## Zoran (Jun 20, 2012)

Doc said:


> I am speechless.



Well then, I will mark the day and time on my calendar and am thinking of getting a tattoo to commemorate the day. 

P.S.
Just joking, don't kill me in September.


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## Gentle Fist (Jun 20, 2012)

What Cerio or Shaolin Kenpo Techs do you have?


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## Yondanchris (Jun 20, 2012)

Gentle Fist said:


> What Cerio or Shaolin Kenpo Techs do you have?



I have basically gutted the skk system or made major modifications to existing techniques....the only one's that remained identifiable are DM#3 and #10.


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## MarkC (Jun 21, 2012)

Doc said:


> I am speechless.



When you get your voice back, could you elaborate, sir?


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## MarkC (Jun 21, 2012)

Chris, why did you choose to use Chinese words like Sifu, Sigung, etc.?

And for those who haven't encountered the "break stance" method, could you go into it a little?


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## kirks (Jun 21, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> I have basically gutted the skk system or made major modifications to existing techniques....the only one's that remained identifiable are DM#3 and #10.



How many DM's do you use in the system...How about forms?


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## kirks (Jun 21, 2012)

Do you use any of the cerio named techniques or combinations?


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## Flying Crane (Jun 21, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Chris, why did you choose to use Chinese words like Sifu, Sigung, etc.?



We are already addressing that question in a similar thread that Chris started simultaneously.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?103819-Debut-of-Christian-Kempo


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## Yondanchris (Jun 21, 2012)

kirks said:


> How many DM's do you use in the system...How about forms?



What we teach,
 54 core basic techniques through 1st black belt.
 Short and Long  Form. (Grab, Club, and Knife form in development) 
 17 Sets (Organized Basics)


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## jks9199 (Jun 21, 2012)

Two questions for you:

1. What makes this "Christian Kempo"?  In other words, other than repackaging the various Kempo systems yourself, what's new about this?
2. How have you actually addressed preparing people for the street with this?  How has it been pressure tested or otherwise validated against street violence?

In short, I'm wondering if you haven't created a solution in search of a problem.


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## Carol (Jun 21, 2012)

Doc said:


> I am speechless.



Is that what it takes to get you to post here sir?


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## Omar B (Jun 21, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Two questions for you:
> 
> 1. What makes this "Christian Kempo"?  In other words, other than repackaging the various Kempo systems yourself, what's new about this?
> 2. How have you actually addressed preparing people for the street with this?  How has it been pressure tested or otherwise validated against street violence?
> ...



Jokeing aside I would like to see this answered.  Seems like rebranding some mash up of Kempo systems under a new banner.  Sounds like marketing to me.  Taking bits and peices from here and there is all well and good, but it's not a new system it seems, but a hobbled old one.

How is the system taught as opposed to your traditional Parker or Tracy Kenpo?  Are prayers at opening and closing thrown in to make it christian?  Good mentioned a lot in class?  How's that turning the other cheek part going?

Personally I would never joining an organization so upfront about their religious affiliations.  I need god in my karate as much as I need a hole in the head.


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## MarkC (Jun 21, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> We are already addressing that question in a similar thread that Chris started simultaneously.
> http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?103819-Debut-of-Christian-Kempo



Okay, I see that one. 
Now, why the Break Stance stuff? (And maybe a brief synopsis of it, for those who haven't encountered the video or read anything)


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## Flying Crane (Jun 21, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Okay, I see that one.
> Now, why the Break Stance stuff? (And maybe a brief synopsis of it, for those who haven't encountered the video or read anything)



You wrote "break stance" and I read it as "break dance" and I was thinking, what the hell did I miss?


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## Instructor (Jun 21, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Jokeing aside I would like to see this answered.  Seems like rebranding some mash up of Kempo systems under a new banner.  Sounds like marketing to me.  Taking bits and peices from here and there is all well and good, but it's not a new system it seems, but a hobbled old one.
> 
> How is the system taught as opposed to your traditional Parker or Tracy Kenpo?  Are prayers at opening and closing thrown in to make it christian?  Good mentioned a lot in class?  How's that turning the other cheek part going?
> 
> Personally I would never joining an organization so upfront about their religious affiliations.  I need god in my karate as much as I need a hole in the head.



It is not uncommon for churches nowadays to use athletic programs and martial arts programs as an outreach into the community.  Often these church schools create oppurtunities for young people to learn martial arts where they might normally have not been able to afford it.

Whether or not you agree with a persons faith surely it is  a good thing to offer training where none is available or is out of reach for people of modest means.


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## Carol (Jun 21, 2012)

I like, and respect that Chris is up front with his religious affiliations.  It's his liberty to do so, it is my liberty as a consumer to decide whether I want to be in a a school with such affiliations...and the best way to make an informed decision is to have critical information up front and unmistakeable. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Zoran (Jun 21, 2012)

Omar B said:


> How is the system taught as opposed to your traditional Parker or Tracy Kenpo?  Are prayers at opening and closing thrown in to make it christian?  Good mentioned a lot in class?  How's that turning the other cheek part going?
> 
> Personally I would never joining an organization so upfront about their religious affiliations.  I need god in my karate as much as I need a hole in the head.



Good for you. Seriously, Christian groups are for Christians that want a Christian atmosphere. It is not about if you like it, it is about relating with like minded people. Not my cup of tea either, for martial arts, but I will defend their rights to yell Amen instead of Kia any given day. Personally fed up with this attitude of its cool to bash Christians often done by the same people that advocate tolerance.


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## MarkC (Jun 21, 2012)

Zoran said:


> Good for you. Seriously, Christian groups are for Christians that want a Christian atmosphere. It is not about if you like it, it is about relating with like minded people. Not my cup of tea either, for martial arts, *but I will defend their rights to yell Amen instead of Kia any given day.* Personally fed up with this attitude of its cool to bash Christians often done by the same people that advocate tolerance.



Me too, but not if they actually say "Kia". Kiai is supposed to start with a vowel. Or at least be something other than the word people think is kiai. But I get sidetracked. I wanna know about "Break Stance. Actually, I've read the descriptions and seen a video a while back, but would like to hear more to confirm or contradict my own personal opinion.


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## Chris Parker (Jun 22, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Me too, but not if they actually say "Kia". *Kiai is supposed to start with a vowel. *Or at least be something other than the word people think is kiai. But I get sidetracked. I wanna know about "Break Stance. Actually, I've read the descriptions and seen a video a while back, but would like to hear more to confirm or contradict my own personal opinion.



Kind of off topic, but really? So the traditional kiai of a number of Koryu schools (such as "Yah!", "Toh!", "Hoh", "Yush!") aren't really kiai? I feel you might find that such rules don't really exist, except perhaps in particular schools themselves.


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## MarkC (Jun 22, 2012)

Chris Parker said:


> Kind of off topic, but really? So the traditional kiai of a number of Koryu schools (such as "Yah!", "Toh!", "Hoh", "Yush!") aren't really kiai? I feel you might find that such rules don't really exist, except perhaps in particular schools themselves.



I should've prefaced that by saying "from what I've experienced and understand". Since I haven't been in every Japanese school.
Just going by the ones I've been in and been taught. But definitely saying "Kee-yah" irritates the hell outta me.


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## jks9199 (Jun 22, 2012)

Carol said:


> I like, and respect that Chris is up front with his religious affiliations.  It's his liberty to do so, it is my liberty as a consumer to decide whether I want to be in a a school with such affiliations...and the best way to make an informed decision is to have critical information up front and unmistakeable.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I don't have a problem with the religious affiliation.  He's up front, he's honest that it's there, it's not being snuck in on the backside.  I'm just asking what makes his Christian Kempo "Christian."  The techniques chosen?  How they're expressed?  Targeting?  Philosophies?  

As an example, the Bando Monk System doesn't have a religious affiliation -- but it does have a philosophy of nonviolence.  This is shown in its use of the least injurious targets and techniques, among other things.  Pushes rather than strikes, strikes to large masses rather than vital targets, holds rather than breaks, and so on...


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## Yondanchris (Jun 22, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> I don't have a problem with the religious affiliation.  He's up front, he's honest that it's there, it's not being snuck in on the backside.  I'm just asking what makes his Christian Kempo "Christian."  The techniques chosen?  How they're expressed?  Targeting?  Philosophies?
> 
> As an example, the Bando Monk System doesn't have a religious affiliation -- but it does have a philosophy of nonviolence.  This is shown in its use of the least injurious targets and techniques, among other things.  Pushes rather than strikes, strikes to large masses rather than vital targets, holds rather than breaks, and so on...




Christian Kempo is a decidedly Christian System from the ground up, as a Pastor I am charged with teaching a Biblical and Christian worldview and paradigm at all times. 
I had been teaching secular martial arts for many years and wanted to "Sanctify" (set apart for special use) Kempo. The spiritual curricula of Bible memorization and required essays on 
spiritual and martial topics had already been laid out, the next project on my list was to enhance the system I already knew using standards set out by Mr. Parker in his Infinite Insight series 
and adding built in spiritual and martial lessons within each technique. For instance the technique "Parting the Seas", very similar to the American Kenpo Technique "Parting Wings" but now has
a second focus and application by being a reference to a Biblical event (Moses parting the red sea). There are many others like "Parting the Seas" within the 54 core techniques in Christian Kempo. 
I really don't care if the community recognizes or appreciates the work put into Christian Kempo, I collected the system for my students, so that they would have the training, skills, and character building that was lacking when I was coming up through the ranks.


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## Carol (Jun 22, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> I don't have a problem with the religious affiliation.  He's up front, he's honest that it's there, it's not being snuck in on the backside.  I'm just asking what makes his Christian Kempo "Christian."  The techniques chosen?  How they're expressed?  Targeting?  Philosophies?
> 
> As an example, the Bando Monk System doesn't have a religious affiliation -- but it does have a philosophy of nonviolence.  This is shown in its use of the least injurious targets and techniques, among other things.  Pushes rather than strikes, strikes to large masses rather than vital targets, holds rather than breaks, and so on...



Never thought you had an issue with it.  My post was more in answer to sentiments such as the ones that Omar expressed.   He would not train in a school with such up front religious affiliations - many other people would not.  That's why I like that Chris is up front with what he does...he's never struck me as a person that would sneak around with his motives, and people that do (or don't) have a problem with such things can see right where he stands....before the school is visited, before the dotted line is signed.  That said, I don't know what make his Kempo "Christian Kempo" other than his ministerial side.

SandanChris?  Is this something you care to talk more about?


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## Yondanchris (Jun 22, 2012)

MarkC said:


> Okay, I see that one.
> Now, why the Break Stance stuff? (And maybe a brief synopsis of it, for those who haven't encountered the video or read anything)



Break Stance is a method of training ken(m)po from the ground up. As taught to me by my instructor Mr. Clark Cole H.I. The synopsis of Break Stance is getting our alignment, balance, and movement into a singular unit by the application of foot maneuvers, stance changes, and body positioning. We use specific points on the feet called Control Surface Pivot Points (CSPPs) by which we determine proper pivoting and weight transfer/shift between stances/foot maneuvers. One of the critical understandings is the relationship between our head, hip, and heel. This is something that is difficult (for me) to explain in text and is best taught. Below is a clip of my instructor doing the American Kenpo Stance Set 1, please pay special attention to weight shift and the heel up - heel down action of his feet. 

[video=youtube_share;zXRI9fAPNQ0]http://youtu.be/zXRI9fAPNQ0[/video]


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## Yondanchris (Jun 22, 2012)

Carol said:


> Never thought you had an issue with it.  My post was more in answer to sentiments such as the ones that Omar expressed.   He would not train in a school with such up front religious affiliations - many other people would not.  That's why I like that Chris is up front with what he does...he's never struck me as a person that would sneak around with his motives, and people that do (or don't) have a problem with such things can see right where he stands....before the school is visited, before the dotted line is signed.  That said, I don't know what make his Kempo "Christian Kempo" other than his ministerial side.
> 
> SandanChris?  Is this something you care to talk more about?



as was already posted above: 

"Christian Kempo is a decidedly Christian System from the ground up, as a  Pastor I am charged with teaching a Biblical and Christian worldview  and paradigm at all times. 
I had been teaching secular martial arts for many years and wanted to  "Sanctify" (set apart for special use) Kempo. The spiritual curricula of  Bible memorization and required essays on 
spiritual and martial topics had already been laid out, the next project  on my list was to enhance the system I already knew using standards set  out by Mr. Parker in his Infinite Insight series 
and adding built in spiritual and martial lessons within each technique.  For instance the technique "Parting the Seas", very similar to the  American Kenpo Technique "Parting Wings" but now has
a second focus and application by being a reference to a Biblical event  (Moses parting the red sea). There are many others like "Parting the  Seas" within the 54 core techniques in Christian Kempo. 
I really don't care if the community recognizes or appreciates the work  put into Christian Kempo, I collected the system for my students, so  that they would have the training, skills, and character building that  was lacking when I was coming up through the ranks."


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## Carol (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry...our posts crossed.   I can't see when new posts come in when posting from the iPad


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## jks9199 (Jun 22, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> Christian Kempo is a decidedly Christian System from the ground up, as a Pastor I am charged with teaching a Biblical and Christian worldview and paradigm at all times.
> I had been teaching secular martial arts for many years and wanted to "Sanctify" (set apart for special use) Kempo. The spiritual curricula of Bible memorization and required essays on
> spiritual and martial topics had already been laid out, the next project on my list was to enhance the system I already knew using standards set out by Mr. Parker in his Infinite Insight series
> and adding built in spiritual and martial lessons within each technique. For instance the technique "Parting the Seas", very similar to the American Kenpo Technique "Parting Wings" but now has
> ...



Have you changed any of the techniques, or just the names and connected them with scriptural elements?


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## Yondanchris (Jun 22, 2012)

jks9199 said:


> Have you changed any of the techniques, or just the names and connected them with scriptural elements?



of the 54 techniques 40 of them are original and have been gathered, collected, created (whatever word you want to use) to re-enforce specific concepts and 
principles within the system. The 14 that are "borrowed" have been re-worked and edited using the functional method described in my thesis, started by Mr. Parker 
in his Infinite Insight series.


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## Flying Crane (Jun 22, 2012)

Sandanchris said:


> Break Stance is a method of training ken(m)po from the ground up. As taught to me by my instructor Mr. Clark Cole H.I. The synopsis of Break Stance is getting our alignment, balance, and movement into a singular unit by the application of foot maneuvers, stance changes, and body positioning. We use specific points on the feet called Control Surface Pivot Points (CSPPs) by which we determine proper pivoting and weight transfer/shift between stances/foot maneuvers. One of the critical understandings is the relationship between our head, hip, and heel. This is something that is difficult (for me) to explain in text and is best taught. Below is a clip of my instructor doing the American Kenpo Stance Set 1, please pay special attention to weight shift and the heel up - heel down action of his feet.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;zXRI9fAPNQ0]http://youtu.be/zXRI9fAPNQ0[/video]



Can you explain what benefit you believe is derived from this particular method?  I'll be honest after having watched the video: it is a method of moving and shifting and changing stances that is opposite from what I believe is the optimal way to go about it.  I would be interested in reading more about what you believe the purpose is, what benefits come from this particular method of pivoting and changing stances.


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## MarkC (Jun 22, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> Can you explain what benefit you believe is derived from this particular method?  I'll be honest after having watched the video: it is a method of moving and shifting and changing stances that is opposite from what I believe is the optimal way to go about it.  I would be interested in reading more about what you believe the purpose is, what benefits come from this particular method of pivoting and changing stances.



Me too. I contrast this with Dr. Chapél's method (as well as the method(s) I originally learned) and at least to me, this one doesn't seem optimal.


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## Doc (Jun 22, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> Can you explain what benefit you believe is derived from this particular method?  I'll be honest after having watched the video: it is a method of moving and shifting and changing stances that is opposite from what I believe is the optimal way to go about it.  I would be interested in reading more about what you believe the purpose is, what benefits come from this particular method of pivoting and changing stances.


Agreed. Just from the beginning the basic stances, as I understand them, are wrong or poorly executed. The method displayed for moving the feet and transitioning between poor stance to poor stance is also contrary to proper mechanics to attain and maintain structure, and I'm being "kind."


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## Omar B (Jun 23, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Jokeing aside I would like to see this answered.  Seems like rebranding some mash up of Kempo systems under a new banner.  Sounds like marketing to me.  Taking bits and peices from here and there is all well and good, but it's not a new system it seems, but a hobbled old one.
> 
> How is the system taught as opposed to your traditional Parker or Tracy Kenpo?  Are prayers at opening and closing thrown in to make it christian?  Good mentioned a lot in class?  How's that turning the other cheek part going?
> 
> Personally I would never joining an organization so upfront about their religious affiliations.  I need god in my karate as much as I need a hole in the head.




To whoever left me a notification calling me "self righteous" for this post.  Maybe you should sign your work and point out what is wrong with what I said.  If this didn't have the word christian on it I would call it out as just another swindle to bilk people by repackaging badly something that already works.  But since it is a religious thing I saved that part because I would like to think the person's heart is in the right place.  But as far as I'm concerned it's a combination style frankensteined together and given a new name.  Just like Keysi or any other trendy BS now.  Self righteous?  No, realist.


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## Grenadier (Jun 23, 2012)

If you believe that someone is abusing the reputation system, then please contact one of the Martialtalk.com forum staff.  Complaining about it in public, though, isn't too productive.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jun 23, 2012)

There is another obvious aspect from a Libertarian POV... if you dont wanna play in that sandbox, then don't. EZ. It works for Chris, for his crew, and that's all it needs to work for. Perspective, position, etc.


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## Yondanchris (Jun 25, 2012)

From another thread:

In Christian Kempo there are 2 sets of "titles" one for family (studio) and one for community. Family titles are Sigung, Sifu, Sibak, Sihing...ect. Community titles are related only to black belt ranks derived from EPAK: 

1st Black - Junior Instructor
2nd Black - Associate Instructor
3rd Black - Senior Instructor 
4th Black - Head Instructor 
5th Black - Associate Professor 
6th Black - Professor of the Arts 
7th Black - Senior Professor 
8th Black - Head Senior Professor 
9th Black - Chief Senior Professor 

We do not have a 10th Dan, that is representative of the position Jesus holds in our Studio. I dislike the title "Master" as Jesus is Lord and Master over His creation, and I prefer the titles of professor. 

As has been stated above, this system is for my students and those of like mind who wish to use the martial arts as a ministry tool to train minds, bodies, and souls for Kingdom Work! I do not dare try to compare Christian Kempo to any other system or style, it is what it is! If you personally have problems with this "I'm sorry" but you will just have to "suck it up!".


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## Omar B (Jun 25, 2012)

Grenadier said:


> If you believe that someone is abusing the reputation system, then please contact one of the Martialtalk.com forum staff.  Complaining about it in public, though, isn't too productive.



Not productive no.  Just about as productive as the anonymous jab at me.  Same type of coward who won't own their opinion and throw horse crap at a turned back because they don't have a thing to say about the argument.

My opinion on christian Kempo stands.  As is my ramping up process for my Satanic Seido Karate.


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## SPX (Nov 18, 2012)

I first learned Tae Kwon Do through the Church in a program called "Kicking for Christ."  It was a good program.  I hadn't been able to learn martial arts before because of financial issues and this one was free.

With that said, I have to defend Omar B to some degree and say that there's no need to re-brand something as a "Christian" version without reason.  And while I'm not a kenpoist, having read through this thread I'm not really seeing the reason.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

SPX said:


> I first learned Tae Kwon Do through the Church in a program called "Kicking for Christ."  It was a good program.  I hadn't been able to learn martial arts before because of financial issues and this one was free.
> 
> With that said, I have to defend Omar B to some degree and say that there's no need to re-brand something as a "Christian" version without reason.  And while I'm not a kenpoist, having read through this thread I'm not really seeing the reason.


Just off the top of my head, calling anything Christian, is meant to attract or at least be seen as Christian friendly. . I don't see the conflict.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Jokeing aside I would like to see this answered.  Seems like rebranding some mash up of Kempo systems under a new banner.  Sounds like marketing to me.  Taking bits and peices from here and there is all well and good, but it's not a new system it seems, but a hobbled old one.
> 
> How is the system taught as opposed to your traditional Parker or Tracy Kenpo?  Are prayers at opening and closing thrown in to make it christian?  Good mentioned a lot in class?  How's that turning the other cheek part going?
> 
> Personally I would never joining an organization so upfront about their religious affiliations.  I need god in my karate as much as I need a hole in the head.


I just read this and wow; just, wow.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> I just read this and wow; just, wow.


OK, since when does "Turn The Other Cheek" mean we are to act like victims?
Sean


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> OK, since when does "Turn The Other Cheek" mean we are to act like victims?



I think the question is what makes it Christian in character--so much so that the term should go in the style's name. We don't speak of Buddhist kung fu very often, though there's a strong historical connection, or of Shinto Iaido. Certainly he's free to name it as he likes, but if you can only put one adjective there, why is this the most apropos one? Is it marketing--trying to attract Christians, perhaps by sending a message that Christianity and the martial arts can mix to those who might think "turn the other cheek" precludes such study, or trying to indicate that the system is only for Christians (I've seen this), or trying to make clear that Christian philosophy infuses the system (not clear from the techniques in the clip)?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

arnisador said:


> I think the question is what makes it Christian in character--so much so that the term should go in the style's name. We don't speak of Buddhist kung fu very often, though there's a strong historical connection, or of Shinto Iaido. Certainly he's free to name it as he likes, but if you can only put one adjective there, why is this the most apropos one? Is it marketing--trying to attract Christians, perhaps by sending a message that Christianity and the martial arts can mix to those who might think "turn the other cheek" precludes such study, or trying to indicate that the system is only for Christians (I've seen this), or trying to make clear that Christian philosophy infuses the system (not clear from the techniques in the clip)?


Who is this "We" you speak of? As I understand it Buddhism and Martial Arts went hand in hand there for a few hundred years, and even today.
Also, What makes it Christian is the people involved, and the people they wish to attract. Why is there this push to take GOD out of the Martial ARTS? (or gods and goddesses )
Sean


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2012)

What? Why are people taking Christianity out of the Oriental martial arts? Is that what you're asking?


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

arnisador said:


> What? Why are people taking Christianity out of the Oriental martial arts? Is that what you're asking?


Oh, for God's sake. No. The specific identity of your higher power doesn't matter.


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> The specific identity of your higher power doesn't matter.



Agreed. That's why I teach the _Thor_ian Hammer style.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 18, 2012)

arnisador said:


> Agreed. That's why I teach the _Thor_ian Hammer style.


I'm sure you do. LOL There really is no law or reason to tell someone they shouldn't be training in something that claims to be Christian, just because you or a few others feel they should be kept apart. Why should they be kept apart is my question to you.
Sean


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## Milt G. (Nov 18, 2012)

So...  Are we talking "seperation of church and Kenpo" here...?  
We can't even keep seperation of church and state right...

An interesting thread, to be sure.
Milt G.


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> I'm sure you do. LOL There really is no law or reason to tell someone they shouldn't be training in something that claims to be Christian, just because you or a few others feel they should be kept apart. Why should they be kept apart is my question to you.



I don't know where you're getting this. What did I say that made you think I felt that way?


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## Carol (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm still digging Omar's idea of Satanic Seido!  %-}


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## arnisador (Nov 18, 2012)

Carol said:


> I'm still digging Omar's idea of Satanic Seido!  %-}



Count me in!


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## Yondanchris (Nov 20, 2012)

"Arnisador
but if you can only put one adjective there, why is this the most apropos one? Is it marketing--trying to attract Christians, perhaps by sending a message that Christianity and the martial arts can mix to those who might think "turn the other cheek" precludes such study, or trying to indicate that the system is only for Christians (I've seen this), or trying to make clear that Christian philosophy infuses the system (not clear from the techniques in the clip)? 

In Christian Kempo we teach in each technique several jumping off point(s) where the student can decide to show mercy and end their defense as the situation presents itself. We use these points to use verbal de-escalation techniques to disarm an attacker before, during, and after the attack. This system is for anyone but certainly contains Biblical concepts and philosophy that dictate our view of the arts. The philosophy is not easily discernible from a physical performance of form or technique but it is in the way we train our students in philosophy, life, and in how we defend it!

Touch of Death
What makes it Christian is the people involved, and the people they wish to attract. Why is there this push to take GOD out of the Martial ARTS? (or gods and goddesses )
Sean 

Great comment Sean,
It is true that Christian Kempo is about Christians wanting to fuze their faith with the arts, but also in using martial arts as an outreach tool, especially to children. We live in a secular society, there has been a push to separate religion from everythingschools, homes, government, and now the martial arts. I am trying, along with my friends KFCI (Karate for Christ International) to remedy that situation.

 Jks9199
I don't have a problem with the religious affiliation. He's up front, he's honest that it's there, it's not being snuck in on the backside. I'm just asking what makes his Christian Kempo "Christian." The techniques chosen? How they're expressed? Targeting? Philosophies?

The system is Christian in that we recognize that all men are created equal and thus all have an equal right to live. We enforce this through discussions on use of force, value of life, jumping off points, and legal responsibility with a healthy dose of a Biblical Worldview.

jks9199
Have you changed any of the techniques, or just the names and connected them with scriptural elements?

Many of the Techniques have changed, all of the names have been changed for legal and spiritual reasons. I am trying to complete a challenge given by Mr. Parker in his Infinate Insights into Kenpo book seriesto further kenpo by incorporating the concepts/principles into any style of martial art. In this case it was a blending of my training in both Shaolin Kempo and American Kempo fuled by a decidedly Christian Worldview and an honest evaluation using American Kenpo Concepts/Principles.


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## arnisador (Nov 20, 2012)

Yondanchris said:


> "Arnisador
> but if you can only put one adjective there, why is this the most apropos one? Is it marketing--trying to attract Christians, perhaps by sending a message that Christianity and the martial arts can mix to those who might think "turn the other cheek" precludes such study, or trying to indicate that the system is only for Christians (I've seen this), or trying to make clear that Christian philosophy infuses the system (not clear from the techniques in the clip)?
> 
> In Christian Kempo we teach in each technique several jumping off point(s) where the student can decide to show mercy and end their defense as the situation presents itself. We use these points to use verbal de-escalation techniques to disarm an attacker before, during, and after the attack. This system is for anyone but certainly contains Biblical concepts and philosophy that dictate our view of the arts. The philosophy is not easily discernible from a physical performance of form or technique but it is in the way we train our students in philosophy, life, and in how we defend it!


 
Ah, I understand! This principle of doing the least harm necessary also infuses a lot of Okinawan karate systems. (Among others--that's where I have some personal experience.) It's different from my perception of the standard Kenpo "overkill" approach, though. I know not everyone practices it that way but that seems to be what I mostly see.



> Many of the Techniques have changed, all of the names have been changed for legal and spiritual reasons.



Legal?


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## SPX (Nov 20, 2012)

Touch Of Death said:


> Just off the top of my head, calling anything Christian, is meant to attract or at least be seen as Christian friendly. . I don't see the conflict.



That much makes sense, but I guess the way I see it is that the PROGRAM through which its learned should be called Christian, not the art itself.

For instance, "Kicking for Christ" was a taekwondo program run through my church.  But we weren't learning Christian taekwondo.  It was just taekwondo.  ATA TKD, to be exact.  Which was kind of lame.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 21, 2012)

SPX said:


> That much makes sense, but I guess the way I see it is that the PROGRAM through which its learned should be called Christian, not the art itself.
> 
> For instance, "Kicking for Christ" was a taekwondo program run through my church.  But we weren't learning Christian taekwondo.  It was just taekwondo.  ATA TKD, to be exact.  Which was kind of lame.


You were taking a less Buddhist Americanized TKD actually.


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## SPX (Nov 21, 2012)

Hmm. . .

I actually have studied--to one degree or another--ITF, WTF and ATA TKD at this point, and I can't say I find any of them to have any real religious flavor.


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## Touch Of Death (Nov 22, 2012)

I don't doubt that. It wouldn't be good business to include it, and most Korean TKDists that I have met are Christian; so, I have no doubt about the fact that you didn't notice any Buddhism.


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## SPX (Nov 23, 2012)

Most Korean TKDists you've met are Christian?  That's an interesting trend. . .


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## MarkC (Nov 25, 2012)

South Korea has a large number of Christians, and I imagine when they move here, they remain so....


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