# Of the three Wushu, Karate, Tae Kwon Do which is the most popular competition art??



## dcsma (Apr 26, 2012)

Just curious which you feel is the more popular competition art out there? Wushu, Karate and / or Tae Kwon Do.  With all three being a respective national sport for their respective country but over all world wide who leads the pack???


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## ralphmcpherson (Apr 26, 2012)

Surely its tkd, but Im only guessing. I dont have any stats to support that.


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## WC_lun (Apr 26, 2012)

From everything I have seen it is TKD.  Karate is a close second, as a competition art.  However, with the support of the Chinese government and the spread of the Chinese arts, Wushu is increasing in popularity.  I enjoy seeing it all.


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## Cyriacus (Apr 26, 2012)

Alrighty - One thing.
If You were to combine every Competitive TKD System, TKD by miles.
If You were to combine every Competitive Karate System, Karate by miles.
If You were to combine every Kung Fu System, probably a close second.

If You combined them all in their respective groups, TKD and Karate would be the leaders, but I have no idea which one would win. Because theres a damn lot of different Karate Systems out there. There is not just "Karate". Much in the same way, with TKD, You have the WTF, ITF, GTF, ATA, and so forth, each with their own Competitive Circuits. Same goes for Karate. Kyokushin, Shotokan, Isshyn Ryu, Gojo Ryu, and so on.
With Chinese Martial Arts, Youve got Wushu, Sanshou, and so on.

Theres no easy answer.


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## Gorilla (Apr 26, 2012)

We participate in two WTF Tkd and NKF Karate  from that perspective.  Only in the USA I would say TKD slightly.  Only because TKD has to two large orgs USAT and AAU with AAU being the largest. NKF has one large org NKF with a small org AAU.

NKF is the best run of the 2 NGB's.

In the world TKD, Karate and then Wushu.  Wushu is an up and comer and probably the one to watch considering the population of China and it growth as a world power.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Apr 26, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Just curious which you feel is the more popular competition art out there? Wushu, Karate and / or Tae Kwon Do.  With all three being a respective national sport for their respective country but over all world wide who leads the pack???


Depends; how are you defining wushu?  Taekwondo is a fairly specific art with one large federation and a number of small to mid-sized federations.  Karate is defined by specific ryus.  

But saying wushu is like saying 'budo,' 'mudo,' or 'martial arts.'  Even sport wushu is not one specific art.  Based on that, the question is invalid.


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## WC_lun (Apr 26, 2012)

In my answer I was referring to cometition wushu, which is a competition activity and has been standardized.  Now if you are using wushu and the Mandarin word for martial arts, there are many, many, different forms of Chinese martial arts.  Some of these systems have been adjusted for competition and have not.  They also run the gambit from striking to grappling to a great mix of the two.  When talking Chinese martial arts, you can't work with general terms very easily because of the great variety.


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 26, 2012)

When you say Wushu you are saying

And that is only a partial list

But when you are talking about competition wushu generally you are talking Modern Wushu, Sanda/Sanshou or Shu&#257;iji&#257;o

But be careful, not all Sanda/Sanshou is sport


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## Gorilla (Apr 26, 2012)

When you are talking about Wushu you are probably talking about IWUF.  Which is trying to get their version of Wushu in the Olympics.


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## clfsean (Apr 26, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> When you are talking about Wushu you are probably talking about IWUF.  Which is trying to get their version of Wushu in the Olympics.



Well "their" version is PRC backed, sanctioned & controlled... kinda like the KKW if I read things right. There are compulsary forms, just like gymnastics, for all divisions. If don't clear compulsaries, you don't compete in individuals in the division (Nothern, Southern & Internal). The sanda system works like any other point fighting system except takedowns & similar techniques are employed & used. 

That's what the majority of reference to "wushu" points at. Wushu is like WC_lun said, martial arts in Mandarin. But within words, there are varying degrees of subtlety & definition.


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## dcsma (Apr 26, 2012)

Ok then I wasnt imagine anything then.  Cause i did remember hear about them pushing for it to be an Olympic sport with Wushu


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## GlassJaw (Apr 27, 2012)

I think the terms "karate" and "wushu" are both quite broad and apply to many distinct martial arts (even as competition arts).

By contrast, Tae Kwon Do, even as organizationally/politically/philosophically divided as it is, is much more homogeneous than either of those two categories (maybe because it's still quite a bit younger and has not had as much time to diverge).  In the traditional sense, the term arguably refers to a single martial art. 

 But looking at it in terms of competition arts (which, by the question asked in the thread topic, we are), I would say there are multiple, arguably distinct arts that are called "Tae Kwon Do" for competition (I'm saying that WTF/Olympic sparring is as distinct an art from ITF competitive sparring as, for instance, Uechi Ryu karate is from Shotokan).   Even with such divergence, I think Tae Kwon Do remains more narrowly definable than karate or wushu.

Were you looking to compare the number of competitors world wide?  Or perhaps find out the style breakdown for the participants of open martial arts tournaments?  Did you mean all competitive applications (including patterns/kata, weapons, breaking, etc.) or specifically just sparring?

Now question the popularity of Tae Kwon Do as a competition art relative to that of BJJ or MMA.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Apr 27, 2012)

dcsma said:


> Ok then I wasnt imagine anything then.  Cause i did remember hear about them pushing for it to be an Olympic sport with Wushu


If you are talking about PRC sponsored wushu as a single art, then it would most likely be a distant third, with taekwondo being first and 'karate' being next, though in fairness. karate is not homogeneous the way that TKD is.


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## Master Dan (Apr 27, 2012)

I was told that for the first time in 2008 since our NW black belt association under Choe Tae Hong supplied the only American referee in China that TKD had more people than Wushu due to University participation?


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## Gorilla (Apr 28, 2012)

IWUF in China. Sport WUSHU
WKF in Japan Sport Karate
WTF Korea Olympic style TKD

These are in the Olympics (TKD) or want to be in the case of WUSHU and Karate.

I think Sport Karate will make it in 2020!


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## ralphmcpherson (Apr 28, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> IWUF in China. Sport WUSHU
> WKF in Japan Sport Karate
> WTF Korea Olympic style TKD
> 
> ...


Gorilla, which type of karate is sports karate, or can any style compete? Also, what is the ruleset?


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## Cyriacus (Apr 28, 2012)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Gorilla, which type of karate is sports karate, or can any style compete? Also, what is the ruleset?



Hehe -You dont even know how big a question You just asked 

The WKF is to Karate what the WTF is to Taekwondo, sort of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Karate_Federation

Hilariously enough, theres also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traditional_Karate_Federation

Im not sure of the specifics, but I think Shotokan competes under the WKF. Dont quote Me on that.


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## dancingalone (Apr 28, 2012)

ralphmcpherson said:


> Gorilla, which type of karate is sports karate, or can any style compete? Also, what is the ruleset?



It is not so much the TYPE of karate but the SCHOOL that elects to participate in sport karate.  I know of a Shorin-ryu dojo that competes in USNAKF (the USA NGB for 'Olympic' karate aspirations) events, even though it is not one of the 4 represented styles in the shitei kata, which is the list of standardized kata which may be used for competition.  Shitei kata include forms from Shotokan, Shito-ryu, Goju-ryu, and Wado-ryu.  

This type of competition is not exactly a haven for purists, since it is very common for practitioners from one system to use shitei kata from another ryu to 'show' better.  For example, the Shotokan and Shito-ryu forms are probably more popular.  Furthermore, the kata have been standardized to a universal shape rather than having individual ryu-ha idiosyncrasies which again to karate purists is somewhat distasteful.

Karate is a different universe than TKD.  There are tons of Shotokan/Shito-ryu/Goju-ryu/Wado-ryu karate-ka who see the Olympic karate movement as harmful to karate in general or they are indifferent to it at best.  Of course, there are those who disagree with this conclusion obviously, but they don't approach the same numbers as with the KKW dominance seen in TKD.


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## Gorilla (Apr 28, 2012)

The NGB for karate (USA) is the NKF or USANKF.  Shotokon practitioners fall under this governing body.  The USA-NKF reports to the WKF which is headquartered in Japan.


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## dancingalone (Apr 28, 2012)

Gorilla said:


> The NGB for karate (USA) is the NKF or USANKF.  Shotokon practitioners fall under this governing body.  The USA-NKF reports to the WKF which is headquartered in Japan.



Not entirely accurate.  Some American Shotokan practitioners participate in USANKF.  Not all.  There are a host of other Shotokan organizations outside of the WKF/IOC umbrella.


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## Gorilla (Apr 28, 2012)

Dancingalone correct...I was referring to those who want to compete under the NGB umbrella...


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