# Jin Pal Hapkido



## Yeti

Hi All,
Looks like I may be relocating to Houston, TX.  In looking for a hapkido school in that area, a web search yields a couple schools.  There's one taught by Ms. Kat Kelly who belongs to GM West's organization, but another is the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation school.  Seems like he's got quite a few dojangs in the US and Canada, but I'm unfamiliar with his teaching. Does anyone have any experience with GM Jin Pal?  
Thanks.

-Mike 

(I know he's featured in the Jan/Feb edition of TKD Times, but I haven't been able to get a copy yet...)


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## Kumbajah

I am involved with Jin Pal Hapkido. I am at the Washington DC dojang. The Texas Dojang is under Master Gia Cau Pham. Master Pham is a student of GM Kim. But I believe that Master Pham has recently retired from teaching. So I'm not sure who is running the Dojang now. I will check into it. I have only met Master Pham a few times when he has traveled to DC. Very nice man and a lot of military experience and many years in Hapkido and other arts. You can check out the Federation at Http://www.jinpalhapkido.com.

Brian Beach

PS both would be a good choice


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## traz

I am currently doing Jin Pal Hapkido in BC Canada, under Master Michael Lok. From my experience, it's a great style, and teaches traditional Hapkido, as opposed to watered down stuff that is so common today. 

My training with Jin Pal has definitely been positive thus far...any specifics you may have I"d be happy to answer.


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## Kumbajah

Traz - Good to see another JPH person here - thought I was the only 1. Tell Master Lok I say hello.

Brian Beach


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## traz

heh yea, I thought I was the only one too! 

Unforunately, I'll have to leave this style of Hapkido, and actually Hapkido in general, this fall, as I"ll be moving to a new university. grrr...I really don't want to stop training in Hapkido!


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## Yeti

Well it looks like I can't lose!...Thanks for your feedback.

Traz - good luck with the move to the new University and with finding a new place to train.  I'm sure it will work out.

-Mike


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## Kumbajah

No problem - like with anything you should try them both and see what fits you better. Both are supported by good GMs. Good luck.

Traz - you can always train in JPH on breaks and over the summer. We had one student do exactly that. He trained in JJ while at school and JPH when home. After school he continued with JPH. He just passed his BB test. He is a little more well rounded then others he tested with because of his additional JJ training. As GM Kim says we are all family so you are always welcome at home.

Brian


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## traz

thats kind of what I'm planning to do. At University, I'm going to join the JJ club, and keep doing that until after university, when I hope to come back to hapkido. Also, I may take up a striking art at the same time of JJ, but that depends on what my schedule is like, I don't know how busy I"ll be.


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## American HKD

Greetings,


Jin Pal is "real Hapkido"


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## Silver Dragon 65

%-} Hi from Canada.
Jin Pal Hapkido Rocks!
I study under Master Thomas Lok in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Jin Pal Hapkido Canadian Headquarters.
I can't comment on anyone elses style of Hapkido, but training with Master Lok is truly a great honor.
You should try both places and figure out which Instructor best fits you.
:ultracool Take care eh!  ( He said "EH!) HAhahahahahahaha.


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## Kumbajah

Must be Ray - I'd recognize that evil laugh anywhere.


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## Silver Dragon 65

Why yes it is I! 

Hey Brian! 
Now there are 3 JPH here. 




It is a balmy +7 c. here today! Yah!! 3 more degrees and we can start tanning!! Hahahahahahahaha!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Ciao!


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## shesulsa

Mod. Note:

 Silver Dragon 65, please take your font off of bold.  Netiquette on forums such as this says it's considered to be strong emphasis; please reserve it for such.

 Thank you in advance,

 -Shesulsa
 -MT Moderator


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## ruffryder

Bringing this thread back to life from the dead.  But I have a major concern..  I've been practicing martial arts in Vancouver for about 3 years now, in a school called Lok's Hapkido.  The school is located in Richmond, BC Canada.  When I joined, the school was part of the Jin Pal Hapkido federation.  Recently in 2006, I found out that the school was "kicked out" by the Jin Pal Federation.  Now, normally that would be ok with me, because I still enjoy practicing Hapkido there.  However, the secrecy in which this was carried out was very disturbing to me.  The only way I found out about this was by stumbling across this article: http://www.hapkidoforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3730&sid=4f91b661d1fc285c1216f6344babcb34

Since there are other members of the Jin Pal Federation reading this, I was wondering what your thoughts on this are?  To give you an idea of the situation..  Master Michael Lok has not told anyone explicitly that we're not part of the Jin Pal Federation anymore.  In fact, we all go to class still learning the Jin Pal techniques, and wearing the Jin Pal badge.  When I told another classmate about the news, he nearly flipped out of surprise.  It's just not ethical to be hiding stuff from your students and it's kind of disturbing that other people are joining the school thinking that they are studying under a Jin Pal certified instructor.

Why hasn't the Jin Pal Federation done anything to mend the situation either?  I noticed the Vancouver dojo just magically disappear off the www.jinpalhapkido.com site's list of dojos all of a sudden.  Don't the students of Vancouver deserve at least an explanation of what went on and what is going to happen in the future?  We're all kind of stranded here, with a dishonest de-authorized instructor, while at the same time we want to continue training in Jin Pal Hapkido.

Hopefully someone else from Jin Pal will reply to this and post their honest opinion because I really feel left in the dark about everything.

Thanks


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## Kumbajah

I would recommend contacting Master Thomas Lok in Regina. Michael Lok should not be using the Jin Pal name or Logo. 

The decision to remove him from the federation was made by Grandmaster Kim,Master Thomas Lok and the other members of the executive board. The announcement was made on the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation website. The website was redesigned and the notice was taken down.

a copy of the original notice



> Deauthorization of Lok's Hapkido Studio
> 
> The Jin Pal Hapkido Federation headed by our Chairman Grand Master Kim Jin Pal regrets to inform members that the studio namely Loks Hapkido in Richmond BC is no longer recognized as an authorized Jin Pal Hapkido Martial Arts studio effective December 16, 2005.
> 
> The federation has also rescinded Michael Loks belt rank of 6th Degree and his authority to teach Hapkido in association with the Federation. This means Michael Lok has no authority to teach the Jin Pal Hapkido curriculum. Furthermore, he and his studio is unauthorized to make reference to Grand Master Kim Jin Pal and the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation for his own benefit.
> 
> The Jin Pal Hapkido Martial Arts Federation will honor all color and black belt members who received their certificate prior to Dec 1, 2005 from Loks Hapkido.
> 
> In order to ensure we have your belt rank record on file, please email your personal contact information and a copy of your color belt certificate in jpeg format to Master Thomas Lok at mastertlok@jinpalhapkido.com for verification. The email must contain your full name, testing date, current rank, mailing address, phone number and email address. Thereafter, we will confirm your belt rank by sending a reply back to you via email.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Executives of Jin Pal Hapkido Martial Arts Federation


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## hapkidorules

I'm sure all you Jin Pal people already know this, but Master Thomas Lok has come to Vancouver to teach!  I have a totally renewed interest in practicing.  Master Thomas Lok is a great teacher.  I feel very privileged to have the chance to train under him.


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## Schwarzwind

Sorry to impose, but I was a old student of Micheal Lok, He taught me when I was younger. Just recently I thought of starting up training again then I come on here and hear that this has happened..

And was just wondering what was the cause of this dismissal?


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## Kumbajah

I hope you resume your training. 

As for Michael Lok - again - I would suggest contacting Master Thomas Lok. He is now in Vancouver  teaching. He is the instructor or Michael Lok and the president of Jin Pal Hapkido Canada. 

I will try to find the new address - my computer died recently and I lost a lot of information. Maybe a Canadian Student might have the address - Hint Hint -they could post.


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## hapkidorules

Hi guys,

The brand new hapkido studio where Master Thomas Lok is teaching is in Richmond.  The address is: 

Unit 1060, McKim Way, Richmond, BC

Here's the website.  The class schedule is included.
http://www.kimjinpalhapkido.com

The new studio is awesome, and the teaching is great..  come and check it out for yourself!


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## Kumbajah

Master Thomas Lok is a great teacher and practitioner of Hapkido. It is definitely worth a look for anyone interested in Hapkido. I haven't seen the studio but I'd highly recommend trying out a class there because of the instructor. 

I'm sure all the old Jin Pal Hapkido students in Vancouver will be happy to have a home again. They are very lucky to have Master Thomas Lok relocate there. 

Hapki !!!


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## littledragon

Im currently training under Master Thomas Lok at the new studio in Richmond. 

  I use to train at the other school thats on No.3 rd, Richmond; but then I stopped because I finally had enough with that Instructor.

  Now Im starting Hapkido again, studying under Master Thomas Lok along with my friends who use to train with me at the other school. I noticed the techniques that Master Thomas Lok teaches are much much more detailed. I also learn the correct way to apply the techniques. Master Thomas Lok spends a lot more time teaching and caring for his students.

  We were so happy that Master Thomas Lok opened a new studio in Richmond.
  The new studio is very big, clean and neat. One of the best things about the studio is the monthly fee includes Unlimited Class Attendance.   

  Here is the address:
*Gum Ying Hapkido Studio*
  #1070  8766 McKim   Way, Richmond
  (Excel  Center - South of Garden City Rd. & Cambie Rd.)
  Tel: 778-361-9981

  For anyone who is interested in Hapkido and lives in Greater Vancouver Area I highly recommended you to come and try out a class.  





Kumbajah said:


> Master Thomas Lok is a great teacher and practitioner of Hapkido. It is definitely worth a look for anyone interested in Hapkido. I haven't seen the studio but I'd highly recommend trying out a class there because of the instructor.
> 
> I'm sure all the old Jin Pal Hapkido students in Vancouver will be happy to have a home again. They are very lucky to have Master Thomas Lok relocate there.
> 
> Hapki !!!


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## kenz

I trained with Master Thomas Lok for a long time. I will not comment the quality of his instruction in public. This is a *disgusting* matter, if you had trained with someone and moved on, YOU SHOULD NOT SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT YOUR LAST INSTRUCTOR. I SEE YOUR CHILD-LIKE BEHAVIOR IS SHOWING LITTLE DRAGON. I hope *everyone* seeing this forum will tell *Master Thomas Lok what you are doing Eugenia Chau*. If your _current_ Instructor endorses what you are doing, I am sending a copy of this to GM Kim Jin Pal by mail.

Master Michael Lok is my friend, *I can only say all your comments so far are not true. I will NOT debate this issue in public
*
Please use a forum to discuss Hapkido skills and techniques.:erg:


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## littledragon

Very interesting comments!


First off Hapkido skills and techniques are taught by an instructor and the instructor is instrumental in the eventual mastering of such skills and techniques. It only follows that skill, technique are synonymous with instruction. So my comments are directly related to skills and techniques. 


It would appear that you have taken my posting very personally so I can only guess as to your identity, much like you have done about mine. *A shame you don&#8217;t have the courage to include your name, but from the tone of your posting it is not hard for anyone to figure out who you are.* :wink2:


Now to comment about *&#8220;I will not debate this issue in public&#8221;*. Perhaps you don&#8217;t understand the meaning of the word *&#8220;Forum&#8221;*. A *&#8220;Forum&#8221;* is designed to allow for the free flow of information and as such it is expected that there will be comments, opinions and beliefs that are not going to be agreed upon by all persons who participate in the forum.


*By opening a debate then refusing to debate is a sign that you don&#8217;t have the courage of your convictions. * That being said I don&#8217;t expect this forum will hear from you again. 


In the end I am studying with a Master who I feel has the best interests of his students and the best interest of Hapkido as his primary focus. *Check him out at the address in my initial post.* 

Ciao for now. :boing1:





kenz said:


> I trained with Master Thomas Lok for a long time. I will not comment the quality of his instruction in public. This is a *disgusting* matter, if you had trained with someone and moved on, YOU SHOULD NOT SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT YOUR LAST INSTRUCTOR. I SEE YOUR CHILD-LIKE BEHAVIOR IS SHOWING LITTLE DRAGON. I hope *everyone* seeing this forum will tell *Master Thomas Lok what you are doing Eugenia Chau*. If your _current_ Instructor endorses what you are doing, I am sending a copy of this to GM Kim Jin Pal by mail.
> 
> Master Michael Lok is my friend, *I can only say all your comments so far are not true. I will NOT debate this issue in public*
> 
> Please use a forum to discuss Hapkido skills and techniques.:erg:


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## Kumbajah

kenz said:


> If your _current_ Instructor endorses what you are doing, I am sending a copy of this to GM Kim Jin Pal by mail.



Michael Lok is no longer a part of Jin Pal Hapkido. His actions have (are)  caused (ing) harm to GM Kim and Jin Pal Hapkido. Master Thomas Lok is a direct student of GM Kim, Michael is not. Only certified instructors are authorized to use the Jin Pal Hapkido name and image and all that it entails and to teach the Jin Pal Hapkido curriculum.

If we are going to talk about respect to past instructors - Michael and his students should be showing respect to Master Thomas Lok. 

GM Kim is aware of Michael's actions - He has asked that no one bad mouth Michael. Praising Master Thomas Lok is not bashing Michael. 

I highly recommend that anyone in the Vancouver/ Richmond area check out Mater Thomas Lok's new Jin Pal Hapkido Dojang.


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## in_na_shim

Hey ! 
I am sooooo happy to hear that Eugenia and the Vancouver crew are training again ! I'm hoping to get out to Richmond for the grand opening along with your si-hings Ray and Jaret.
The Richmond studio has the makings of a fantastic dojang, not only do you have Master Thomas Lok but his boys Billy and Chris, those two are friggen incredible Hapkido-ists
Stay Positive. Focus on training and helping Master Thomas promote Jin Pal Hapkido in Canada. We have something very special that can not be tainted by anyone...no matter how hard they try.

Si-hing Dave


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## AlexL

littledragon said:


> Very interesting comments!
> 
> 
> First off Hapkido skills and techniques are taught by an instructor and the instructor is instrumental in the eventual mastering of such skills and techniques. It only follows that skill, technique are synonymous with instruction. So my comments are directly related to skills and techniques.
> 
> 
> It would appear that you have taken my posting very personally so I can only guess as to your identity, much like you have done about mine. *A shame you dont have the courage to include your name, but from the tone of your posting it is not hard for anyone to figure out who you are.* :wink2:
> 
> 
> Now to comment about *I will not debate this issue in public*. Perhaps you dont understand the meaning of the word *Forum*. A *Forum* is designed to allow for the free flow of information and as such it is expected that there will be comments, opinions and beliefs that are not going to be agreed upon by all persons who participate in the forum.
> 
> 
> *By opening a debate then refusing to debate is a sign that you dont have the courage of your convictions. * That being said I dont expect this forum will hear from you again.
> 
> 
> In the end I am studying with a Master who I feel has the best interests of his students and the best interest of Hapkido as his primary focus. *Check him out at the address in my initial post.*
> 
> Ciao for now. :boing1:



It has been so many years already. Let it go, we can all be friends   Please, don't let this carry on any further. This is unnecessary~ There are good times and bad times, but how can you forget all the good times we have? It is irreplaceable anyhow.

Alex from Miami~


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## ryan604hapkido

hi i am currently studying under master michael lok.  i am just wondering what happen bfore?? when i was doin my research on master lok i had friends that told me long ago there were once that a lot of student left him at once i was wondering what happen?? and are master michael lok and master thomas lok related?? cuz they look alot alike.  further more aren't they suppose to be originate from grand master pal??? whats the difference between both masters loks?? it has been bugging me ever since i find this post please someone help me out...


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## Kumbajah

Master Thomas Lok and Michael Lok are brothers. Master Thomas Lok is the President of Jin Pal Hapkido Canada. Master Thomas Lok is a direct student of Grandmaster Kim Jin Pal and has been from GM's days in Hong Kong. 

Michael Lok was a student of Thomas Lok. He is no longer a member of Jin Pal Hapkido. He is not authorized to teach Jin Pal Hapkido nor are his students part of Jin Pal Hapkido. I do not know if he has been authorized by another governing body or if he has a new Grandmaster or not. 

I hope that answers your questions and I hope you enjoy your training.


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## ryan604hapkido

Well I think we are under the banner of Korean New Martial Arts Hapkido Federation.  The training is alright i guess cuz i never train with any other martial arts before so I cant compare which is kinda frustrating but i just want to find out why are ppl trying to implicate one is better than the other and is one actually better than the other??  I am not trying to take sides but rather trying to see things in more objective kind of ways.  If something happen from b4 which is unethical resulting anyone getting disciplinary actions I think as a student I should have a right to know or at least a heads up from someone thats helpful.  I just don't want to get thrown under the bus or spend all this time and money on training that end up not getting recognize by major federations of hapkido.


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## in_na_shim

Hey Ryan, my name is Dave Gaitens. I've been a student of Master Thomas Lok's for 14 years. I have trained with your current instructor and have done many demonstrations and seminars at his studio when he was a part of our Federation. Your current instructor has no respect for anyone, least of all his older brother who taught him all he knows about Hapkido, he is not recognized by any Federation and unfortunately is trying to defame Master Thomas Lok's name.
I recommend you go to Master Thomas Lok's dojang and speak to him directly...and respectfully, he is a legitamate 8th Dan. Master Thomas Lok is the real deal with a very long list of people who hold him in the highest regard. Why ? Because his focus is on Hapkido, not money. If you ask Master Thomas what he gets out of teaching his response will be...and I quote "my reward is not money, it is seeing my students do well."
You will also find his dojang is clean, has change rooms, certified black belt instructors and you will never see him drive away in a brand new BMW leaving a color belt to teach his classes.


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## Kumbajah

Ditto to what Dave said - ( Hi Dave - Brian from DC  Hope things are good in Regina ) 

Just wanted to add that the Korean New Martial Arts Hapkido Federation is the old KHA under Hwang Deuk Kyu- Grandmaster Kim Jin Pal is the international director of the organization. Michael Lok's certification from that organization has been revoked as well. All ties to Jin Pal Hapkido and its affiliates have been severed. 

I would also suggest going to Master Thomas Lok's Studio and seeing for yourself. Try a class or 2 and then you can compare for yourself. I would be very surprised if you didn't see a marked difference.


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## ryan604hapkido

So how many federations are there in total?? I mean the more major ones??  Because I remember seeing other federations certificates hanging on top of the mirrors.  Does that mean even if I am like a red or brown belt at my current dojang I wont b recognize anywhere I go??? 
Plus my situation is awkward too cuz just paid $$ for lengthy period of time in the beginning of this yr.. T-T"""" not trying to take away anything from my current instructor... 
I am kinda stuck in a situation then.  On one hand I really want to explore my option(s) but on the other hand what if by chance I find myself intrigue by the option(s) that I find? I guess refund would be totally out of the question(sigh
	

	
	
		
		

		
			














...)  plus more importantly I am somewhat force to stay at a place that I am not so interested anymore.  
Again have to stress that I am not trying to put down my own instructor although I cant compare with anyone else but so far to me he seems to be a nice guy to us and he actually stays and teaches us techniques(at least on my class).  In case there are ppl from my dojang are reading this post. I guess until the day that I leave(if the day do come) I have to keep my opinion very very open....


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## AlexL

in_na_shim said:


> Hey Ryan, my name is Dave Gaitens. I've been a student of Master Thomas Lok's for 14 years. I have trained with your current instructor and have done many demonstrations and seminars at his studio when he was a part of our Federation. Your current instructor has no respect for anyone, least of all his older brother who taught him all he knows about Hapkido, he is not recognized by any Federation and unfortunately is trying to defame Master Thomas Lok's name.
> I recommend you go to Master Thomas Lok's dojang and speak to him directly...and respectfully, he is a legitamate 8th Dan. Master Thomas Lok is the real deal with a very long list of people who hold him in the highest regard. Why ? Because his focus is on Hapkido, not money. If you ask Master Thomas what he gets out of teaching his response will be...and I quote "my reward is not money, it is seeing my students do well."
> You will also find his dojang is clean, has change rooms, certified black belt instructors and you will never see him drive away in a brand new BMW leaving a color belt to teach his classes.



Hey Dave,  hows it going? I haven't seen you in a while .  I was the original 3 black belts of the Vancouver branch and went to Korea to train with everyone.  Dave, we know each other and I know that we both have no ill interest and truly believes in for each of their own. I have only one question though as to why Master Thomas Lok is moving to Vancouver to teach?  For the focus on Hapkido? Not at all for the SLIGHTLY in part because there is more students in Vancouver and can make more money?  I'm not trying to defame anyone. I'm an accountant now living in Miami, I wouldn't lose the slightest respect for anyone for making a living.  Sifu M Lok taught me much more than Hapkido.  He worked really hard for his new BMW. I was there when the studio opened in a small corner and no one wants to make a comment about how many years we spend building up student bases?  I had times where I was the ONLY student there at night.  We started from rags. Please, we all respected Thomas Lok, MML always spoke highly of him. Don't let the subjective and hearsay get into you. Go and verify everything you see. As I would like to put it, AUDIT all that you hear from and cross reference.  Outside source is always more reliable than internal sources.  Also, don't let how successful Sifu is meaning he doesn't do anything.  Sifu had many businesses and was successful in them some what to the point that not all money was made from the studio. We tooked baby steps to get to this studio and for Sifu to be successful. He deserves a BMW.  I would love to train with you, do demonstrations with you guys and learn from you all. Everyone from Regina was really cool. But please, leave the personal bias at home and just do our best. No hard feelings.

Cheers,
Alex Lin


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## AlexL

ryan604hapkido said:


> So how many federations are there in total?? I mean the more major ones??  Because I remember seeing other federations certificates hanging on top of the mirrors.  Does that mean even if I am like a red or brown belt at my current dojang I wont b recognize anywhere I go???
> Plus my situation is awkward too cuz just paid $$ for lengthy period of time in the beginning of this yr.. T-T"""" not trying to take away anything from my current instructor...
> I am kinda stuck in a situation then.  On one hand I really want to explore my option(s) but on the other hand what if by chance I find myself intrigue by the option(s) that I find? I guess refund would be totally out of the question(sigh
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ...)  plus more importantly I am somewhat force to stay at a place that I am not so interested anymore.
> Again have to stress that I am not trying to put down my own instructor although I cant compare with anyone else but so far to me he seems to be a nice guy to us and he actually stays and teaches us techniques(at least on my class).  In case there are ppl from my dojang are reading this post. I guess until the day that I leave(if the day do come) I have to keep my opinion very very open....



Please see independent information and get to know the situation


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## in_na_shim

Alex. I'm not an accountant so can you help me with this ?

The individual being discussed hides behind a fake name to make comments and threats against former students.
The individual being discussed is in the process of trying to secure the rights to the Jin Pal Hapkido logo that was founded by GrandMaster Kim. 
The individual being discussed had a lawyer draft a letter accusing Master Thomas Lok of steal potential business.
The individual being discussed made phony belt certificates and gave them to his students knowing full well they were worthless.
The individual being discussed kept money from Lion dances, demonstrations and seminars and gave a pathetic percentage to those involved...of which I was one many times. Alex you might remember the Grand Opening of that mall in Vancouver, I blew my knee out doing Eagle catches prey...GrandMaster Kim came to my room afterwards to check on me....the individual being discussed couldn't be bothered, even though we all came out to support his studio, spent the entire weekend doing demo's and seminars of which he charged every participant but he did no instructing....where'd that money go....hhhmmm, those sure are shiny tires.
The individual being discussed went to Europe and demanded of an 8th Dan Master to have a room ready for him upon his arrival then when he got there took it upon himself to engage in an interview that was originally set up for GrandMaster Bong Soo Han with a local magazine not once mentioning his Master or GrandMaster.
The individual being discussed claims he is the only one that should have the title Sifu Lok, yet Master Thomas Lok was his Sifu and will always be his senior in many respects.
Now Alex, this is where I need your help....my math isn't good. Being an accountant do the above actions add up to someone who is a good person, has his ego in check, respect for his seniors, and some one who has Hapkido as his main focus...are these the actions of a Master of anything let alone Hapkido ?
I've been around since the individual in question was still training in Regina. My comments are factual, not pulled out of thin air. It is not a huge conspiracy against the individual being discussed, there is a reason that people with credentials like Grand Master Kim and Master Thomas Lok do not want to be associated with him. 
I'm sick of the attempts to discredit Master Thomas Lok, he has given his life to the martial arts and asks nothing more than for his students to train hard so that they will be able to pass on the knowledge they have gained.


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## Kumbajah

ryan604hapkido said:


> So how many federations are there in total?? I mean the more major ones??  Because I remember seeing other federations certificates hanging on top of the mirrors.  Does that mean even if I am like a red or brown belt at my current dojang I wont b recognize anywhere I go???



Here is a list of Hapkido organizations - 

http://www.martialartsresource.com/Hoshinsool-online/hkdorgs.htm

As for your rank being recognized - every organization is different. Most will evaluate you and see what they think your skill level is and place you there (where you are in their eyes) if you join their organization. Usually you will have to learn their curriculum up to your rank before you can test again. 



At this point I wouldn't worry about it - esp if are staying where you are. Only if you are planning to switch organizations is this an issue. At seminars or if you are a guest at another dojang rank is not an issue. The Hapkido community is pretty friendly for the most part. Forums sometimes don't give that impression but everyone I've ever met face to face has been cool.

I do think you owe it to yourself to check out Master Thomas Lok's Dojang just so you have a comparison.


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## AlexL

in_na_shim said:


> Alex. I'm not an accountant so can you help me with this ?
> 
> The individual being discussed hides behind a fake name to make comments and threats against former students.
> The individual being discussed is in the process of trying to secure the rights to the Jin Pal Hapkido logo that was founded by GrandMaster Kim.
> The individual being discussed had a lawyer draft a letter accusing Master Thomas Lok of steal potential business.
> The individual being discussed made phony belt certificates and gave them to his students knowing full well they were worthless.
> The individual being discussed kept money from Lion dances, demonstrations and seminars and gave a pathetic percentage to those involved...of which I was one many times. Alex you might remember the Grand Opening of that mall in Vancouver, I blew my knee out doing Eagle catches prey...GrandMaster Kim came to my room afterwards to check on me....the individual being discussed couldn't be bothered, even though we all came out to support his studio, spent the entire weekend doing demo's and seminars of which he charged every participant but he did no instructing....where'd that money go....hhhmmm, those sure are shiny tires.
> The individual being discussed went to Europe and demanded of an 8th Dan Master to have a room ready for him upon his arrival then when he got there took it upon himself to engage in an interview that was originally set up for GrandMaster Bong Soo Han with a local magazine not once mentioning his Master or GrandMaster.
> The individual being discussed claims he is the only one that should have the title Sifu Lok, yet Master Thomas Lok was his Sifu and will always be his senior in many respects.
> Now Alex, this is where I need your help....my math isn't good. Being an accountant do the above actions add up to someone who is a good person, has his ego in check, respect for his seniors, and some one who has Hapkido as his main focus...are these the actions of a Master of anything let alone Hapkido ?
> I've been around since the individual in question was still training in Regina. My comments are factual, not pulled out of thin air. It is not a huge conspiracy against the individual being discussed, there is a reason that people with credentials like Grand Master Kim and Master Thomas Lok do not want to be associated with him.
> I'm sick of the attempts to discredit Master Thomas Lok, he has given his life to the martial arts and asks nothing more than for his students to train hard so that they will be able to pass on the knowledge they have gained.



This is called preservation of Goodwill.  In another words, protecting the turf.  I do not think the preservation of goodwill due to the circumstances (Master Thomas Lok coming to Vancouver to compete).  This is common reaction of an incumbent, and a business self-defense technique.  Wouldn't matter to Thomas Lok if he didn't teach in Vancouver.  For instance, if Master Michael Lok did not come to Vancouver to teach 12 years ago, and gain of much publicity. No one would know Thomas Lok.  TL will have to start from scratch. What right does he have to build upon the student base of his previous branch to do business? For example, I allow a coffee franchise to open in Vancouver and the headquarter is in Regina. Vancouver does really well, Regina wants a better profit sharing.  When then it was decided to enter themselves first by KICKING out the Vancouver franchise and proceed to open a Hapkido studio.  If you take names out and use Company A and Company B in place, you would think this is a very shaddy transaction.  All of a sudden, you say it is Jin Pal Hapkido, Master Thomas Lok and it sounds okay to you? We cannot argue that Michael didn't used Jin Pal to start. He paid his part for using Jin Pal during those period.  It doesn't matter what the aftermath is because during that time, he did his things and paid his due.  In the end, do you still realize in substance, Master Thomas Lok capitalized on Michael Lok's business? I got emails of MTL opening a new studio from TLok long ago, doesn't this prove the outreach?  Where did Master Thomas Lok open his studio? Didn't he open in front of another studio?  Even if Master Michael Lok is disrespectful etc. It doesn't mean the above can be done to him.  It is bullying.

Care to elaborate why Michael Lok is kicked out? Because he disrespected everyone? What motives does he have doing so? It doesn't seem to be better business motive to be kicked out.  Let us analyze the business motive of Thomas Lok coming into Vancouver AFTER Michael Lok is kicked out?  Once again, we are all people with lives to live.  There is no problem making a living out of Hapkido. In fact, I encourage it.  However, to say Master Michael Lok is not a good person for protecting business, then I guess Research In Motion, Nortel Networks, Bombardier, Ebay, Microsoft is all bad individuals because they will not hestitate to defend themselves.  If you like to associate for profit as a bad thing, I don't mind. Everyone knows that Hapkido ain't a charity obviously.  Master Michael Lok is not cheating anyone, in Vancouver, there aint that many people in the same calibre of teaching.

For lion dances, no one forced anyone to do any lion dances. You know what is coming, you wanted to do it, you get whatever. For me, lion dance is traditional culture and I would do it for free (the effort was not worth the money, I did 3~4 years in a row) But the fun of it. If you would think of it rather simple, you don't have to do it.

I did not say Master Michael Lok is the best person in the world or he is the most respectful, but he does his part.  Dave, I was there when you blew your knee and I felt really awful about it.  Master Thomas Lok was a great teacher, I respect him whole-heartedly. No one discredited hereThomas Lok at all.  I didn't, the anonymous person didn't.  View it all you want, but if you replace every names of the studio with A, B and Cs, it would seem like the act of business perservation for a reasonable person.  When in fact, Master Michael Lok's studio is being provoked. I AM NOT JUDGING WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG. Michael can be wrong.  But unbiased analysis would look this way.

Regards,
Alex Lin


----------



## Kumbajah

Alex I think you are misrepresenting the situation - Michael Lok has not been a member of Jin Pal Hapkido since 2005 (see earlier post this thread). The motivation for his dismissal was his behavior not any grand take over scheme. The dismissal was 3 years ago. Master Thomas Lok moved only late last year. 

Michael has done things to discredit Master Thomas Lok and Grandmaster Kim. 

Trying to steal the logo by copy writing it is not self protection - it is the federation's logo ( it is a picture of GM KIm kicking -see Dave's icon ) he has no right to it not being a part of Jin Pal Hapkido. He still also invokes GM Kim Jin Pal in his Marketing Material. The Federation has made it clear that it wants to have no more to do with Michael. 

I can appreciate your loyalty to Michael but the facts do not support your conclusions. I do not know how long you have been in Fla. but Michael has been responsible for some less then ethical maneuvers.


----------



## in_na_shim

You still haven't grasped the concept of respect have you, Alex.
Let's just forget all the things the individual we are discussing has done...you fall on your head?  Martial Arts....code of conduct...did you ever read your hand book?
Do you really beleive that Master Thomas Lok would much rather have his younger, less competent(I had to teach your instructor the red belt curriculum)brother as a foe ?  Alex you obviously are unaware of many other things the individual we are discussing has done that nothing can justify, business or otherwise and Master Thomas Lok has not retalliated.
The individual we are discussing did not decide to branch out he was kicked out because he refused to be honest and continued to be disrespectful in his actions to GrandMaster Kim and Master Thomas Lok AND STILL continues to lie about his affiliation.  
Business wise from your point of view Burger King would be suing McDonalds for being across the street....is the individual we are discussing upset about the virtual cornocopia of other martial arts in the same area ?
.....so the individual we are discussing has the right to try and own the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation logo??? 
Please, if you don't mind can you explain that to me?


----------



## ryan604hapkido

Well to be fair, well at first I check out MML dojang and ask him about hapkido and the differences between it n other martial  arts he did in a way or the other more or less discredit a lot of other Master in other martial arts some naming names some didnt.  I dont know if that would be view as a sell pitch or just pure discreditation in you guys eyes.  After I've been in there for a while though i have to say that MML is a very proud person(some may say self center and others simply define it as arrogant).  I just want to know what happen from before??  Was it true that at one point a lot of student just simply stood up and all left??  

OH and do you guys know that his son is one of the assistant now 1st Dan black belt.


----------



## AlexL

in_na_shim said:


> You still haven't grasped the concept of respect have you, Alex.
> Let's just forget all the things the individual we are discussing has done...you fall on your head?  Martial Arts....code of conduct...did you ever read your hand book?
> Do you really beleive that Master Thomas Lok would much rather have his younger, less competent(I had to teach your instructor the red belt curriculum)brother as a foe ?  Alex you obviously are unaware of many other things the individual we are discussing has done that nothing can justify, business or otherwise and Master Thomas Lok has not retalliated.
> The individual we are discussing did not decide to branch out he was kicked out because he refused to be honest and continued to be disrespectful in his actions to GrandMaster Kim and Master Thomas Lok AND STILL continues to lie about his affiliation.
> Business wise from your point of view Burger King would be suing McDonalds for being across the street....is the individual we are discussing upset about the virtual cornocopia of other martial arts in the same area ?
> .....so the individual we are discussing has the right to try and own the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation logo???
> Please, if you don't mind can you explain that to me?



In my situation, Burger King would be suing McDonalds definitely, if Burger King was a franchise of McDonalds, and McDonalds kicked Burger King out and then proceed to open up a restaurant.  Competition is not cannibalization. However, if Burger King and McDonalds were different, and they came up with their own IP. It is competition.

As I have said, I analyzed the situation in an objective way. Respect is very subjective. I am not going to go into an argument about respect as I have said I respect both Master Thomas Lok and you Dave. What I have suggested, is only in the most objective manner of the siutation. 

The core of my argument here lies why Master Thomas Lok is coming to Vancouver to teach.  Focus on Hapkido can be anywhere.  Why come to a place where he would be barred to do business with complication (that is given)?  Then afterwards, wouldn't it be expected already with Master Michael Lok to defend its turf?

This is what I'm saying. Lets respect each other, but if Master Thomas Lok goes into Vancouver, he for sure knows because of the PREVIOUS affliation and how Michael introduced Hapkido into Vancouver and how Master Thomas Lok approached previous students will be problem.  You still haven't faced my replies.  You say that MML did all these things, but weren't it already expected, in the light of business, to be done? Please refrain from using personal remarks like competent, dishonest, and disrespectful.  As I have said in the beginning, I'm not here to create a flame war. I did not use any words against Master Thomas Lok and Master Michael Lok and you Dave.  However, you keep on saying things about MML.  Furthermore, I don't even live in Vancouver, I live so far from it.

On a lighter note, Burger King is headquartered in Miami and started here 

Edit: I forgot to address the Jin Pal Logo thing.  Please see Kumbajah as I have addressed there.

Alex


----------



## AlexL

Kumbajah said:


> Alex I think you are misrepresenting the situation - Michael Lok has not been a member of Jin Pal Hapkido since 2005 (see earlier post this thread). The motivation for his dismissal was his behavior not any grand take over scheme. The dismissal was 3 years ago. Master Thomas Lok moved only late last year.
> 
> Michael has done things to discredit Master Thomas Lok and Grandmaster Kim.
> 
> Trying to steal the logo by copy writing it is not self protection - it is the federation's logo ( it is a picture of GM KIm kicking -see Dave's icon ) he has no right to it not being a part of Jin Pal Hapkido. He still also invokes GM Kim Jin Pal in his Marketing Material. The Federation has made it clear that it wants to have no more to do with Michael.
> 
> I can appreciate your loyalty to Michael but the facts do not support your conclusions. I do not know how long you have been in Fla. but Michael has been responsible for some less then ethical maneuvers.



Ethical or not, why everyone is dodging Master Thomas Lok is moving to Vancouver?  For the record, we contacted by Master Thomas Lok LONG TIME AGO for registering to start classes in Vancouver.  So the time difference is supported.  Furthermore, MML could have registered all the trademarks years ago, he has the resources and know hows to do it.  Why do it now?  Could it because of some event, like another school opening, that caused it? Yup.  To be fair, I wouldn't register the Jin Pal Logo if it was me defending my turf, and if I did, it is because i'm too hot headed and out of spite because of the ordeal.  Nevertheless, it is not about the Jin Pal logo as this is all recent.  I thought mediation is required for this to be settle. You have points in many cases, but as to why MML was kicked out, I am very indifferent about it as I think both side did not have the story out all the way.  I did not mention it because I will side with MML due to the PHYSICAL evidence I saw and verified with my own eyes.  I did not use it in any of my arguments because it will affect my objectivity.  If I were to use that argument, I would be biased as I have no way to cross examine the information or be fair to Master Thomas Lok.

Alex


----------



## AlexL

in_na_shim said:


> Alex. I'm not an accountant so can you help me with this ?
> 
> The individual being discussed hides behind a fake name to make comments and threats against former students.
> The individual being discussed is in the process of trying to secure the rights to the Jin Pal Hapkido logo that was founded by GrandMaster Kim.
> The individual being discussed had a lawyer draft a letter accusing Master Thomas Lok of steal potential business.
> The individual being discussed made phony belt certificates and gave them to his students knowing full well they were worthless.
> The individual being discussed kept money from Lion dances, demonstrations and seminars and gave a pathetic percentage to those involved...of which I was one many times. Alex you might remember the Grand Opening of that mall in Vancouver, I blew my knee out doing Eagle catches prey...GrandMaster Kim came to my room afterwards to check on me....the individual being discussed couldn't be bothered, even though we all came out to support his studio, spent the entire weekend doing demo's and seminars of which he charged every participant but he did no instructing....where'd that money go....hhhmmm, those sure are shiny tires.
> The individual being discussed went to Europe and demanded of an 8th Dan Master to have a room ready for him upon his arrival then when he got there took it upon himself to engage in an interview that was originally set up for GrandMaster Bong Soo Han with a local magazine not once mentioning his Master or GrandMaster.
> The individual being discussed claims he is the only one that should have the title Sifu Lok, yet Master Thomas Lok was his Sifu and will always be his senior in many respects.
> Now Alex, this is where I need your help....my math isn't good. Being an accountant do the above actions add up to someone who is a good person, has his ego in check, respect for his seniors, and some one who has Hapkido as his main focus...are these the actions of a Master of anything let alone Hapkido ?
> I've been around since the individual in question was still training in Regina. My comments are factual, not pulled out of thin air. It is not a huge conspiracy against the individual being discussed, there is a reason that people with credentials like Grand Master Kim and Master Thomas Lok do not want to be associated with him.
> I'm sick of the attempts to discredit Master Thomas Lok, he has given his life to the martial arts and asks nothing more than for his students to train hard so that they will be able to pass on the knowledge they have gained.



I give credit where credit is due,  Master Thomas Lok and you taught me a lot and I'm grateful.  Furthermore, Master Thomas Lok is a great instructor and wonderful to Vancouver. This is my respect for Hapkido.  However, to make a living or to open up it studio, it is not as easy as Martial Arts conduct.  You need commercial ethics conducts as well.  I have no way of stopping MML from registering all the trademarks and Jin Pal Logo. I prefer him just protect himself without going out all that extent.  Commercially, I say MML can do much better.  However, all of this stems from one thing.  Master Thomas Lok decides to do something like this, moving to Vancouver and contacting previous Lok's student.  Is the actions justified?  Yes, except for Jin Pal's logo.  However, if he didn't do that, then would he be right to you?


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## Kumbajah

You seem to be fond of the franchise model. Michael's studio was not a franchise of Jin Pal Hapkido. He was allowed to use GM Kim's name in good faith. No rights were purchased. 

Master Thomas Lok did talk to Michael about coming to Vancouver before he did come. He suggested a location an hour away so that there would be no competition - Michael answer was an unconditional no. 

I see this wrong on a few levels - One purely business level more exposure the stronger the brand - it would have benefited them both. 

Second Master Thomas Lock is Michael's older brother - Ethically I would think that you would want your family to do well.

Thirdly - Master Thomas Lok is Michael's teacher - with out the transfer of knowledge there is no studio for Michael because he has no Hapkido knowledge. By extension GM Kim as well. 

Fourthly - Michael has cashed in on GM Kim's name - GM Kim is well known in the Hong Kong diaspora as a Movie star as well as Martial Artist - There is a vast difference between opening a McDonalds and opening Mike's Hamburger Shop. 

Lastly - to extend your model of franchise  - the corporation dictates the structure - Franchises can be lost if the standards are not met. 

Mike has done what is good for Mike without any consideration for those that granted him the means - Master Thomas Lok, Grandmaster Kim, the support of the Federation and lastly his own students.  

This logo thing is just the last thing in a line of missteps by Michael.


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## in_na_shim

Damn dude, nicely put !  :highfive:


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## shesulsa

*ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Some of the posting members here are new to MartialTalk and are unfamiliar with our rules on conduct.  I'll take this opportunity to point everyone to the general posting rules of the site.

We strive to keep things polite and respectful here, we do not bash others nor attack them directly or personally.

Thank you.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator
*


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## Tango

ryan604hapkido said:


> Well to be fair, well at first I check out MML dojang and ask him about hapkido and the differences between it n other martial  arts he did in a way or the other more or less discredit a lot of other Master in other martial arts some naming names some didnt.  I dont know if that would be view as a sell pitch or just pure discreditation in you guys eyes.  After I've been in there for a while though i have to say that MML is a very proud person(some may say self center and others simply define it as arrogant).  I just want to know what happen from before??  Was it true that at one point a lot of student just simply stood up and all left??
> 
> OH and do you guys know that his son is one of the assistant now 1st Dan black belt.




There are 4 black belt tests so far. Out of all the black belt tests; 15 students participated in total and they all received their black belt. How many black belts do you see in the school now?


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## ryan604hapkido

Hmmm.... thats interesting to note... seriously speaking wise only 3 lol.   MML, his son, and saw this early 30ish dude like couple of times kinda chubby dye blonde streaks.  I always just thought that it was so hard to get blk belts not beacause it is hard to pass blk belt test but mayb there is a tendency of draging a student behind so he has to learn more class(more class= more $$). That is just rumor that I heard and I think I am far away from blk belt so nvr really thought anything deep into it.  But if you know otherwise plz enlight me.


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## Tango

Gum Ying Hapkido now has a group on facebook. Everyone is welcome to join. 

Here is the link
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10297084235


:CTF:


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## pckfu

yo wasup everyone? new to the forum!
I am Keith from gum ying studio.
if u haven't checked out our facebook group already go check it out.

reply to some previous posts... sigh...

i would like to say, ppl have their free will...
those who remain loyal, have their reasons to stay at the old school.

those who left the old school has their own reasons, and no one can get mad at it... it doesn't mean we're bad ppl... or not loyal...

some of us just just realized whats right/wrong for us...
enough of this kinda discussion... makes me sick... 

just keep training hard! do your best! don't envy or deal with other ppl'z business... mind ur own... 

I would just like to say that I love training at gum ying studio w/ my sifu, si-hings, si-jehs, si muis, si dai'z... everyone's positive attitude in training is just what makes it such a great place to be.

peace!


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## littledragon

Nice videos on the facebook. Good job! :cheers:




Tango said:


> Gum Ying Hapkido now has a group on facebook. Everyone is welcome to join.
> 
> Here is the link
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10297084235
> 
> 
> :CTF:


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## AlexL

pckfu said:


> yo wasup everyone? new to the forum!
> I am Keith from gum ying studio.
> if u haven't checked out our facebook group already go check it out.
> 
> reply to some previous posts... sigh...
> 
> i would like to say, ppl have their free will...
> those who remain loyal, have their reasons to stay at the old school.
> 
> those who left the old school has their own reasons, and no one can get mad at it... it doesn't mean we're bad ppl... or not loyal...
> 
> some of us just just realized whats right/wrong for us...
> enough of this kinda discussion... makes me sick...
> 
> just keep training hard! do your best! don't envy or deal with other ppl'z business... mind ur own...
> 
> I would just like to say that I love training at gum ying studio w/ my sifu, si-hings, si-jehs, si muis, si dai'z... everyone's positive attitude in training is just what makes it such a great place to be.
> 
> peace!



Nice and mature post. Nice one Keith


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## Schwarzwind

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, I don't want to go making a new post if someone will respond here, so here it goes.

I am leaving hopefully within the week to restart training in hapkido. when I was younger I began my training with Michael Lok and that continued for a year or so, eventually because of dedications to other sports i had to stop. Now I am older and I don't have as many commitments as I did when i was younger, but when I am just ready to come back I hear of all this drama and suddenly I am faced with a decision; go back to Michael or start anew with Thomas?

To be honest, I was too young for me to judge character of Michael, only six or seven, so I wouldn't know if the things I hear on this thread are true. Saying that, it would be a lie to say I remembered much from my training, so basically I'm a brand new student, but with this stupid dilemma. 

So what I guess I'm asking is for someone to give me a unbiased opinion, what should I do? I'm serious about coming back to hapkido, so I want to get the best out of my training, but then again I promised personaly about two years ago that I would come back to Michael if I ever got back into hapkido.

Any advice would be appreciated, please what should I do?


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## Kumbajah

I am not unbiased - but the responsible thing to do is visit both and decide which is best for you. It is you that has to show up for training. So the one that you feel you will get the most out of is the correct choice for you. 

Now for the biased view - Thomas taught Michael. 

Hope that helps.


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## Schwarzwind

Thank you Kambajah, I have thought a lot about what I should do, and as it turns out I will be going to see Thomas later today at his youth/adult class about starting my lessons.


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## Kumbajah

So how'd it go?


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## Schwarzwind

I just signed up for the 3 month summer program and recieved my white belt today, and after participating in a few classes, I can tell I made the right choice. Thomas is  a great teacher and every one in there has been very friendly. Just like when I was younger, I'm still the only white kid in the class :uhyeah:

Hopefully as my lessons progress ill be posting on this forum more. 
Thanks again!


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## FARM BOY

Hello Everyone,

I am training Jin Pal Kim Hapkido at Gum Ying Hapkido Studio in Richmond.  I have learned alot since starting up my training again and also to realize how many faults my techniques had.  But Sifu Thomas is a great instructor, his skills still amaze me everyday.  For those of you who are deciding which instructor is better I can truly say, Master Thomas Lok is better.  I can not comment on the quality of teaching at Lok's Hapkido but I do know that when I was there, I taught myself through the books and videos and taught the other students as well.  I was paying to teach others.  Sometimes I would be there till open to close on weekends and till closing on weekdays.  But I got no respect for it, I am just a tool.  But I love the art and when I heard Sifu Thomas was opening a studio in Richmond, I signed up before it even opened.  I just have one last comment,  take a look at Lok's Hapkido students and watch a class then come to Gum Ying Hapkido and look at their students.  You will surely notice a big difference.  Our school is not a daycare it is a martial art school.


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## littledragon

New photos and videos are up on www.hapkidocanada.com and Gum Ying Hapkido Studio facebook group.

Also there is a new class schedule.


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## _Melody

Hi. I am currently training at Master Michael Lok's dojang in Richmond, and I think it's okay. I don't think it matters a lot if Master ML was kicked out, his teaching isn't too bad. The only thing is that he doesn't teach a lot of techniques during class, so you have to figure it out yourself from the videos. But other than that, it's fine. Does anyone else here go to my dojang? I would appreciate some help and feedback.


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## Kumbajah

Doesn't sound like you are satisfied with your situation. You really can't learn from a video tape. Have you tried a class from Master Thomas Lok?


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## jks9199

_Melody said:


> Hi. I am currently training at Master Michael Lok's dojang in Richmond, and I think it's okay. I don't think it matters a lot if Master ML was kicked out, his teaching isn't too bad. The only thing is that he doesn't teach a lot of techniques during class, so you have to figure it out yourself from the videos. But other than that, it's fine. Does anyone else here go to my dojang? I would appreciate some help and feedback.


I'm confused.  In my classes, I generally don't teach a lot of techniques in any one class either.  Too much, and the student is overwhelmed and won't remember.  I teach a few techniques, and work them so that the student can understand them.

I wouldn't want my students running out to videos, and learning more, and teaching other students; there's a reason for what I teach and when, and in what sequence.  I don't discourage students from practicing and learning outside of class (and am even open to them bringing something new from outside on occasion) -- but why would you go somewhere that the teacher isn't apparently teaching?  Am I misunderstanding something?


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## _Melody

Well, the reason I chose Lok's Hapkido is that the times are flexible. The classes aren't bad, it's just that some of the techniques I have to learn myself. The teacher _is_ teaching, just not everything. As jks9199 said, I think MML is just trying not to overwhelm us with techniques. Some of the white belts are very, very tiny, and some of my fellow yellow belts aren't huge, either. And no, I haven't tried at class at MTL's place because the times don't work for me.


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## Kumbajah

_Melody said:


> The classes aren't bad, it's just that some of the techniques I have to learn myself.



This should never be the case. or are you trying to learn above your level (i.e.learning blue belt material as a Yellow belt) ?


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## terryl965

_Melody said:


> Well, the reason I chose Lok's Hapkido is that the times are flexible. The classes aren't bad, it's just that some of the techniques I have to learn myself. The teacher _is_ teaching, just not everything. As jks9199 said, I think MML is just trying not to overwhelm us with techniques. Some of the white belts are very, very tiny, and some of my fellow yellow belts aren't huge, either. And no, I haven't tried at class at MTL's place because the times don't work for me.


 
Why are you learning techniques by yourself? This seem very strange to me.


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## jks9199

terryl965 said:


> Why are you learning techniques by yourself? This seem very strange to me.


That's what got me a bit puzzled, too.

I mean, there's always an extent that you must learn a technique for yourself.  The teacher can only show and teach so much, and the student must then practice it, and work with it until they understand and can use the technique and its principles... but the teacher still has to provide the starting point.  Not merely point them towards a video player...


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## terryl965

jks9199 said:


> That's what got me a bit puzzled, too.
> 
> I mean, there's always an extent that you must learn a technique for yourself. The teacher can only show and teach so much, and the student must then practice it, and work with it until they understand and can use the technique and its principles... but the teacher still has to provide the starting point. Not merely point them towards a video player...


 
I can only echo your statement, but if they are happy with it then so be it.


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## Kumbajah

> Hi. I am currently training at Master Michael Lok's dojang in Richmond, and I think it's okay. I don't think it matters a lot if Master ML was kicked out, his teaching isn't too bad.



Doesn't sound like a glowing review.Can't be too happy. 

I'd be very upset if I was paying for this.


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## terryl965

Kumbajah said:


> Doesn't sound like a glowing review.Can't be too happy.
> 
> I'd be very upset if I was paying for this.


 
Yes the way it sounds they are not to sure but are willing to settle.


----------



## Drac

terryl965 said:


> Why are you learning techniques by yourself? This seem very strange to me.


 


jks9199 said:


> That's what got me a bit puzzled, too.
> 
> I mean, there's always an extent that you must learn a technique for yourself. The teacher can only show and teach so much, and the student must then practice it, and work with it until they understand and can use the technique and its principles... but the teacher still has to provide the starting point. Not merely point them towards a video player...





			
				Kumbajah said:
			
		

> Doesn't sound like a glowing review.Can't be too happy..I'd be very upset if I was paying for this.




You gentlemen are not alone...


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## Tango

_Melody said:


> Hi. I am currently training at Master Michael Lok's dojang in Richmond, and I think it's okay. I don't think it matters a lot if Master ML was kicked out, his teaching isn't too bad. The only thing is that he doesn't teach a lot of techniques during class, so you have to figure it out yourself from the videos. But other than that, it's fine. Does anyone else here go to my dojang? I would appreciate some help and feedback.




I think I know what she means when Melody says "The only thing is that he doesn't teach a lot of techniques during class, so you have to figure it out yourself from the videos."

I use to go to that school and here are some info. For each belt there are kicking, punching, pattern, flipping / rolling, 6 - 8 one steps and 6 - 8 joint locks. Student must learn all their current techniques  in order to test for the next level.

The master there likes to teach kicking and punching or kick targets in groups or in lines in most of the classes. 

In my opinion, I think it's the easiest class to teach since all the master has to do is call out the kicks and tell the student to do them. He will either do it once or most likely tell a higher belt to show the class and all he have to do is count.

A few years back the master made video clips on all the one steps, pattern and joint locks for each belt.

After the video clips were made, very little time were spend on one steps and joint locks. The master will show only once or twice in a class or two. 

So if you want to really learn the techniques you will have to either ask a higher belt to show you, that is if they remember it correctly or look at the video clips that he made which is on a computer at the school and learn it yourself.


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## Kumbajah

Talk about phoning it in - people actually pay for this?


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## Alain

Wow, I can't believe someone would do this and call it teaching. (refering to Tango's post)

I teach everything that I want my students to learn. That is what it is to be a teacher. I personally have a number of DVDs for sale, but they are not curriculum DVDs, and I don't require any of my students to purchase them. Many want them because I am their teacher, and it gives them a reference for techniques when I am not around, but they get so much more in class... as they should!

Reading about some of the stuff that goes on in the martial art world makes me sad, and makes me feel good that I have had excellent instructors both in the U.S. and my Hapkido instructors in Korea. I just need to ensure that I live up to their standards and be the best teaching I can be. I wish everyone could have such experiences.

Yours in Training,

Alain

www.burrese.com


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## Kumbajah

The most tragic thing about this is there is a legitimate Jin Pal Hapkido Studio,  with an awesome and dedicated teacher right down the road. Ironically this shyster's brother. 

http://www.hapkidocanada.com/


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## FARM BOY

If you are watching the videos or learning the videos from loks hapkido you are probably watching me.  those videos were made because i wanted to be an assistant instructor and was told that if i made those videos i would be.  it was as if i was doing a test.  i had no idea he would use me to make the videos.  there were two sets made, one with me doing the techniques then one with him doing the techniques on me.  I did them first then he did it afterwards because he did not remember most of them.  those videos took me a long time to do with some help of fellow students of course.  there could be some new videos now but i highly doubt it as he would not make new material.  to anyone watching the videos there is a HUGE WARNING as most of the techniques are INCORRECT.  it was not till i studied with master THOMAS lok that i got corrected.  with techniques if done properly it should not really matter if you are 10 or 100.  if any students want to try REAL hapkido with master THOMAS lok then i urge to please come by.  the class times are always expanding, sifu can accomodate.  TANGO you went to loks before too, do i know you?  i hope you are not a person that can not control their punching and hit people in the EYE.


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## FARM BOY

one more thing:  learning from a video is never the way to go, videos are meant to refresh your techniques not be the teacher.  practice hard, practice often, practice correctly and practice with the right instructor.


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## littledragon

FARM BOY said:


> one more thing:  learning from a video is never the way to go, videos are meant to refresh your techniques not be the teacher.  practice hard, practice often, practice correctly and practice with the right instructor.





I totally agreed with FARM BOY. Practice makes perfect!


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