# how complex is the straight lead?



## sonsage (Jul 4, 2007)

How long does it take to learn?  I was looking through a copy of The Straight Lead by Teri Tom and it says how complex this punch is and how one will get frustrated. This book also quotes Bruce Lee as saying, "Only one in 10,000 people can handle it."

The strike is based on a punch in a book by old time boxer Jack Dempsey. A lot of these old time boxing techniques are abandoned by modern boxers today. You think this contradicts Bruce Lee's principle of simplicity and directness by using a punch so complex? Once you learn it, do you think it is some secret weapon more effective than the jab or jumping punches like the superman punch?


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## Andrew Green (Jul 4, 2007)

Punches are simple, using them well is not.


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## darci (Jul 4, 2007)

What Is The Straight Lead Punch?


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## arnisador (Jul 4, 2007)

sonsage said:


> The strike is based on a punch in a book by old time boxer Jack Dempsey.



I don't know this story. What is the connection to Jack Dempsey?


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## CheukMo (Jul 5, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I don't know this story. What is the connection to Jack Dempsey?


 
It is discussed in Teri Tom's "The Straight Lead" pages 11-17.


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## arnisador (Jul 5, 2007)

Ah, OK. I have the book on my shelf--I'll check it out!


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## CheukMo (Jul 6, 2007)

sonsage said:


> How long does it take to learn? I was looking through a copy of The Straight Lead by Teri Tom and it says how complex this punch is and how one will get frustrated. This book also quotes Bruce Lee as saying, "Only one in 10,000 people can handle it."


 
He means one in 10,000 learning it (through training and repetition).



> The strike is based on a punch in a book by old time boxer Jack Dempsey. A lot of these old time boxing techniques are abandoned by modern boxers today. You think this contradicts Bruce Lee's principle of simplicity and directness by using a punch so complex? Once you learn it, do you think it is some secret weapon more effective than the jab or jumping punches like the superman punch?


 
Simple does not mean "easy to learn". Get a copy of Bruce Lee's Fighting Method: Basic Training, if you already have Teri Tom's book, use that as well. A copy of Jerry Poteet's first (or second?) video would be a good resource as well. Follow the instructions in any one or all of those and use a mirror to see if you are matching the technique and with time you should be able to get it down. The straight punch is easier to get down than the "straight blast" which includes a step-slide and small leap. Is it a super weapon? It depends on how well you get it down.


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## thtackett (Jul 6, 2007)

Bob Bremer and I show the straight lead punch in our book to be published in a few months by Black Belt Mag. I also will be showing it in a DVD now be edited by Inside Kune Fu Mag. There will be an article on it in IKF in a month or 2.
Tackett


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## CheukMo (Jul 6, 2007)

thtackett said:


> Bob Bremer and I show the straight lead punch in our book to be published in a few months by Black Belt Mag. I also will be showing it in a DVD now be edited by Inside Kune Fu Mag. There will be an article on it in IKF in a month or 2.
> Tackett


 

Thank you, sir.  And my advice???


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## thtackett (Jul 7, 2007)

It's not complicated, but is hard to do with enough precision to get the proper power. It must also be done without preparation. That's why so few really "get it"


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## CheukMo (Jul 7, 2007)

thtackett said:


> It's not complicated, but is hard to do with enough precision to get the proper power. It must also be done without preparation. That's why so few really "get it"


 
Exactly.  "It" has to hit.


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## arnisador (Jul 7, 2007)

thtackett said:


> It's not complicated, but is hard to do with enough precision to get the proper power. It must also be done without preparation. That's why so few really "get it"



I study JKD at a PFS (Paul Vunak) school and I don't think we do this technique!?!


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## CheukMo (Jul 7, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I study JKD at a PFS (Paul Vunak) school and I don't think we do this technique!?!


 
Paul Vunak, who like Dan Inosanto,is a "JKD Concepts instructor" who has blended in more systems since Bruce Lee stopped publicly teaching JKD and closed his schools. I believe Sifu Tacket, Sifu Bremer, Sifu Ted Wong and Sifu Poteet teach "Original Jeet Kune Do" or Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do which teaches what Sijo Lee taught them up until his death, which still used a variation of the Wing Chun straight punch, with the fist in the yat jee position instead of the more standard of the Karate/TKD (etc) two knuckle punch. The Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do straight lead is like the Wing Chun punch using elbow power, but instead of using the "Choh Ma" body/feet turning power, the JFJKD punch uses more of a waist turning power. Correct me if I'm wrong. I am not saying one side is wrong and the other correct, each of Sijo Lee's students "saw a different part of the elephant" as Sifu Bremer said (I think it was Sifu Bremer).


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## Robert Lee (Jul 9, 2007)

By putting the hip into the strike along with the falling step You gain power. You Must not sat it up just let the hand lead the body as you strike. Its best to be showed rather then read it and try to understand it.  Dempsy saw the falling step as a way of adding power and reducing telagraphic motion.


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## arnisador (Jul 10, 2007)

Robert Lee said:


> Its best to be showed rather then read it and try to understand it.



I'm sure that's true. I wish I had that option!



> Dempsy saw the falling step as a way of adding power and reducing telagraphic motion.



It's amazing to me that this technique comes from a well-known boxer. Neat!


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## sonsage (Jul 17, 2007)

thtackett said:


> It's not complicated, but is hard to do with enough precision to get the proper power. It must also be done without preparation. That's why so few really "get it"


 

the non-telegraphic part where the fist moves first then the body follows isn't hard to grasp. However, the power generation part is. 

From my interpretation of the straight lead, power comes from pushing off with the rear foot while maintaining the body in a vertical structure. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Flatlander (Jul 17, 2007)

It isn't complex at all, rather, challenging to do well if you've learned other ways of punching first.  It's an entirely different way of generating power.  Rather than a standard shoulder fired jackhammer, the body becomes a whip, with the punch beginning at the rear foot and finishing in the knuckle.  The challenges lie in appropriate timing of whip motion, body alignment, and not telegraphing the movement.  

Functionally, this strike isn't particularly useful on it's own unless being utilized for an attack on preparation, or pre-emptive strike.  Thus, learning to incorporate the power generating principles into a more dynamic circumstance will require a great deal of work, though is necessary in order for the strike to have any real value.


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## James_of_a_thousand_naps (Jul 17, 2007)

With the power side forward theory sifu lee could let out a devastating lead jab and i have felt my own sifu do the same while holding the pads, but that does take awhile of training to get that power, the move is effectively a distractive move: shoot out fast and hit the person so you can follow up with the cross etc. This is much the same as destructions in the FMA where each hit gains a momentum making it easier to manipulate and destroy the opponent.


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## simplicity (Jul 18, 2007)

The straight lead has nothing to do with FMA, not even close...


Keeping "IT" Real,
John McNabney (2nd Gen. JKD Instructor)
www.purpledragonstudio.com


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## Em MacIntosh (Jul 19, 2007)

Right hand, right leg forward.  Fist vertical  Like a simultaneous whip.  "Squeeze" all your adrenaline out.  For me, I feel it most in the right obliques/hip, right tricep muscles left calf and both sets of quads.  I can't explain it but practice it on the heavy bag and you'll know when you get it right.  One-arm push ups help a lot as well as not wrapping the wrists, forcing you to be more concious of not bending them.  "Dust" them up a little first (numb from repeated impact after five minutes or so).  I tense my wrist and fist up first before contact is made, pretending I'm holding a slippery rope.  Even if I'm not doing it right, it's still good enough for me.  I think of cobras, lizard's tongue, gunshot, hyperspace and anything that makes me heart beat faster.  Developing concious control of your adrenaline is half the battle, IMO.


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## turbo1975 (Jul 20, 2007)

The technique itself is not hard, the timing required for the interception in the different applications is.


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## James_of_a_thousand_naps (Jul 23, 2007)

simplicity said:


> The straight lead has nothing to do with FMA, not even close...
> 
> So you deny that while lacking power its speed and position in the by jhong stance can be used to distract or put off the opponent to follow up with the more telegraphed and slower cross?
> 
> ...


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## Flatlander (Jul 23, 2007)

James_of_a_thousand_naps said:


> So you deny that while lacking power its speed and position in the by jhong stance can be used to distract or put off the opponent to follow up with the more telegraphed and slower cross?


Of course it can be, as can anything.  Why one would *plan* to, from a strong side lead, follow a fast and powerful straight lead strike with a weaker,slower cross is beyond me.  Personally, I'd simply seek connectivity and move from there...

However, the complexity of the straight lead really has nothing to do with what one chooses to follow it up with - that's quite another story.  What it does have a lot to do with is proper mechanics, speed, accuracy, timing, and focus on non-telegraphy.  What it isn't is a jab......


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## James_of_a_thousand_naps (Jul 24, 2007)

Flatlander said:


> Of course it can be, as can anything.  Why one would *plan* to, from a strong side lead, follow a fast and powerful straight lead strike with a weaker,slower cross is beyond me.  Personally, I'd simply seek connectivity and move from there...
> 
> However, the complexity of the straight lead really has nothing to do with what one chooses to follow it up with - that's quite another story.  What it does have a lot to do with is proper mechanics, speed, accuracy, timing, and focus on non-telegraphy.  What it isn't is a jab......



I would not say that the cross is less powerful than the straight - besides thats irrelevant to my point, you can follow up with anything, my point is that the jab or straight gives you the opening to do the follow up.


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## James Kovacich (Jul 24, 2007)

Flatlander said:


> Why one would *plan* to, from a strong side lead, follow a fast and powerful straight lead strike with a weaker,slower cross is beyond me.


 
That is one of the first things we learned from our instructors and you should know why as well. "You're" weaker cross shouldn't be weaker at all. That is if you put your "time in" on your right lead. Your rear cross is only one tool in the toolbox and the tool must conform to the box and not vice versa. JKD "was" deep into intercepting so the right lead was perfected. Strong side forward makes for a better "game" with all the tools if their JKD is more than "in name only."


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## Flatlander (Jul 30, 2007)

akja said:


> That is one of the first things we learned from our instructors and you should know why as well. "You're" weaker cross shouldn't be weaker at all. That is if you put your "time in" on your right lead. Your rear cross is only one tool in the toolbox and the tool must conform to the box and not vice versa. JKD "was" deep into intercepting so the right lead was perfected. Strong side forward makes for a better "game" with all the tools if their JKD is more than "in name only."


Sure, I can't disagree with any of that.  The emphasis was on "plan", though.....  But, I see your point.  I've not progressed to the point where my left is anything other than weaker than my right.  My right side is my strong side, and, though it should not get as much attention as it does, it gets more attention, thereby keeping me, undoubtedly, right side strong.  It's a vicious circle and a perpetual bad habit.


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## James Kovacich (Jul 31, 2007)

Flatlander said:


> Sure, I can't disagree with any of that. The emphasis was on "plan", though..... But, I see your point. I've not progressed to the point where my left is anything other than weaker than my right. My right side is my strong side, and, though it should not get as much attention as it does, it gets more attention, thereby keeping me, undoubtedly, right side strong. It's a vicious circle and a perpetual bad habit.


My friend, they must of "planned" on it not being weaker.


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## Flatlander (Aug 1, 2007)

akja said:


> My friend, they must of "planned" on it not being weaker.


LOL!  Touche.....


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## g-bells (Aug 6, 2007)

simple techinique but hard to master(if posssible) and extremely difficult to land effectively... practice,practice and more practice


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## Charleston Combat (Oct 12, 2007)

It can take years to effectively master the straight lead in JKD! It will take dedication, but anyone can figure it out! It's not rocket sicence! Practice makes perfect!! OK - I'm pushing it. Alot of practice!!!!!!!! Brad


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## chof (Nov 30, 2007)

the jkd straight punch is hip rotation timed with economy of motion ,the hand is in motion and your waist turning provides power from the ground also external energy this is why you can deliver a knock out blow with you arm extended by turning your waist, practice the hip turning delivering the arm!


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