# Where are all the low singles in MMA?



## Reeksta (Dec 14, 2014)

Hoping that the MMA practitioners on here can help answer something that's been puzzling me for a while. One of my favourite wrestling techniques is the low single leg. I find it has a high success rate and even if it doesn't work there's a good chance you can transition to behind the opponent. The fact that it sees use at the highest levels of freestyle wrestling competition suggests that even top flight guys can be caught by it.
So why do I hardly ever see the technique in MMA? Especially as there's so many great wrestlers competing in the sport. I'm assuming there's some reason why it's not as viable in the cage as on the wrestling mat but I can't figure out what the reason is?


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## Transk53 (Dec 14, 2014)

Imagine Tony and drop bear will able answer this one.


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## drop bear (Dec 14, 2014)

In wrestling you can take a couple of bites at that leg in mma you will get punched. 

but we train singles.


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## Tez3 (Dec 14, 2014)

With so many techniques available to be used in MMA you will often find you won't see single techniques used as often as you'd imagine. It will also depend on who you are watching. European MMA is more based on BJJ and Judo than the US where there is a huge base in wrestling.
Certainly though we do train single leg.


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## Reeksta (Dec 15, 2014)

Just to clarify as I fear I didn't make myself clear on the OP, I'm talking specifically about the low single as shown here 



 rather than the standard single leg takedown. I know the latter is very popular in MMA. Only times I've ever seen this one were Randy Cotoure on James Toney and Colton Smith on Mike Ricci


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## Tez3 (Dec 15, 2014)

Well my answer is still the same, with so many techniques to use you may not see any specific technique being used a lot, we do train that and a good many others, what you use in a fight is what you can 'make' or get. If you only watch the UFC you are likely to only see the American wrestling type moves, I've seen thousands of MMA fights in the UK and wrestling isn't used nearly as much, quite rarely in fact. There are moves by some gyms to actively train the old catch wrestling though rather than the American high school/college type. We used to be well known for in in the UK years ago.


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## Reeksta (Dec 15, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Well my answer is still the same, with so many techniques to use you may not see any specific technique being used a lot, we do train that and a good many others, what you use in a fight is what you can 'make' or get. If you only watch the UFC you are likely to only see the American wrestling type moves, I've seen thousands of MMA fights in the UK and wrestling isn't used nearly as much, quite rarely in fact. There are moves by some gyms to actively train the old catch wrestling though rather than the American high school/college type. We used to be well known for in in the UK years ago.


I dunno man, freestyle is an international style, not specifically American (in fact a lot of people in the American wrestling scene feel it's not practiced enough over there which leads to them underperforming on the international circuit) and is widely practiced throughout Europe and Russia. It's made a lot of ground here in the UK too recently. I think the old cliche that British guys can't wrestle is a little outdated these days. That's also not my experience of watching domestic events; I see loads of double and single leg shots in British events, just not this one.
Get your point about the large variety of techniques in MMA meaning that specific techniques see less use, there's probably some validity in that.


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## Tez3 (Dec 15, 2014)

The resurgence of the Snake Pit has to be a good thing, MMA fighters are always looking for new techniques to add to the arsenal. I think it's a state of mind thing, those coming from BJJ and Judo consider themselves already to be martial artists and extending into MMA is just extending their martial arts. I think wrestler see themselves as wrestlers not martial artists and so aren't so keen to extend into MMA so you will not see what could be considered 'pure' wrestling techniques. Many wrestling techniques leave the proponents open to being kicked, punched, elbowed etc which is something wrestlers don't have to ( hopefully lol) have to think about. Quite often you will see an MMA fighter tinker around with techniques to make them work for them so you may never see a 'pure' move from wrestling or any other style come to that.
After more than 15 years in MMA (even more in TMA) doing everything from teaching, coaching, promoting, reffing, judging etc etc to putting up cages and rings I really do hope my points have some validity!


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## Reeksta (Dec 15, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Many wrestling techniques leave the proponents open to being kicked, punched, elbowed etc which is something wrestlers don't have to ( hopefully lol) have to think about. Quite often you will see an MMA fighter tinker around with techniques to make them work for them so you may never see a 'pure' move from wrestling or any other style come to that.


This was my suspicion, that the low single might leave a fighter vulnerable in an MMA bout for reasons which aren't the case in wrestling. Thanks for your input and for sharing your experience, appreciated


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## Tony Dismukes (Dec 15, 2014)

Consider the context of the low single in wrestling - both competitors are starting out in a very low stance. The low single allows the wrestler taking the shot to get underneath the opponent's defending arms in one quick action.

In MMA, the stances are higher to allow for effective striking. This means a couple of things. First, it's not necessary to go as low to bypass the opponent's arms. Secondly, a fighter shooting a low single from a normal fighting stance would have to travel much further and would have a greater chance of getting stuffed. (Alternately, he could start from a low wrestlers stance, but that would give away his intentions and also keep him from being able to strike effectively.)

Couture went for the low shot against Toney because a) he wanted to be completely clear of Toney's punches and b) he knew that Toney didn't have the grappling experience to react to the shot in time, even if it took a little longer.

(Also if the low single fails, you're in a more vulnerable position for getting hit than you are if a standard double leg fails.)

That's my theory, anyway. I'm not much of a wrestler and I've never competed in MMA, so take it for what it's worth.


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## Tez3 (Dec 15, 2014)

I think often people expect to see clean, obvious techniques in MMA which are easily recognisable as being from a specific style but it doesn't really happen that way. An MMA fighter could well already be on the ground and going for a single leg, it would be messy, not a clean technique but you go for what you can when you can and with luck it works. Also as Tony has pointed out you know beforehand what your opponent's weaknesses and strengths are. It's one of the things I love about MMA the wholeness of it, having to think fast and often instinctively so you can react to what your opponent does, the best fighters can be a couple of moves ahead, I've never managed that though lol.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 15, 2014)

More vulnerable and easier to counter.  Pretty simple.  I watched a fight the other day where it ended up a single when he missed and the top guy countered and lit him up.


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## Reeksta (Dec 15, 2014)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Consider the context of the low single in wrestling - both competitors are starting out in a very low stance. The low single allows the wrestler taking the shot to get underneath the opponent's defending arms in one quick action.
> 
> In MMA, the stances are higher to allow for effective striking. This means a couple of things. First, it's not necessary to go as low to bypass the opponent's arms. Secondly, a fighter shooting a low single from a normal fighting stance would have to travel much further and would have a greater chance of getting stuffed. (Alternately, he could start from a low wrestlers stance, but that would give away his intentions and also keep him from being able to strike effectively.)
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense, thanks


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## Tez3 (Dec 15, 2014)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> More vulnerable and easier to counter.  Pretty simple.  I watched a fight the other day where it ended up a single when he missed and the top guy countered and lit him up.




The joy of MMA though is that you don't lose...you either win or learn lol.


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## Buka (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm not sure why it's not used more. My guess would be the distance is too great.
But as a self defense takedown when standing face to face - I love it. It might be the only technique I've never had shoved up my.....nose.

And it is especially fun with really large men. We start scrambling to mount before they even finish falling


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## Reeksta (Dec 16, 2014)

Buka said:


> I'm not sure why it's not used more. My guess would be the distance is too great.
> But as a self defense takedown when standing face to face - I love it. It might be the only technique I've never had shoved up my.....nose.
> 
> And it is especially fun with really large men. We start scrambling to mount before they even finish falling


It's a great technique against bigger guys


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## Andrew Green (Dec 16, 2014)

Randy Couture used one against James Toney.

That was however a very unusual situation.  Randy didn't want to get anywhere near him and knew his takedown defence was basically non-existent.   

Single legs with strikes involved in general are rare, low singles are just a bad idea.  You'd take a huge risk and if there was any form of defence on the takedown you are now getting punched in the head repeatedly.


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## drop bear (Dec 16, 2014)

ben askren from bellator.

mad keen for a wrestle that one.


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## Transk53 (Dec 17, 2014)

@drop bear Crikey, looks like the bloke is metaphorically made of elastic. Nice skills.


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## punisher73 (Dec 17, 2014)

Mark Kerr used to do them quite frequently back in the PrideFC days.

He actually knocked himself out doing a mistimed one in a fight. I'll try and post the video later if I can find it.


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## punisher73 (Dec 18, 2014)

My fault, found the video and it was a double at the waist that he KO'd himself.  Here is the video
Mark Kerr Self Knockout - Funny Videos at Videobash  (won't let me imbed from the website)


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