# Are The J. Simonet Videos worthwhile?



## farangkorat (May 12, 2007)

Hello! I''m a newbie. Are the Simonet videos worth the mone?


----------



## arnisador (May 12, 2007)

I don't know, but welcome anyway!

He's the Wing Chun author?


----------



## Obliquity (May 12, 2007)

He has several out. As a student of his, I would say absolutely. I have only seen Slam Set and DNA (Argument of Movement Part I), but if you not only watch, but listen carefully to the points he is trying to get across regarding why he does things the way he does, then I think you can learn tons o' stuff.

Of course, "worthwhile" is different for everyone. Being trained by him for about 8 months now, I really appreciate his perspective on fighting and his depth of knowledge in several arts. His stuff simply may not appeal to some martial artists, however, but I think a person would be missing out if they didn't at least seriously consider his approach.

Sifu Joseph (not Joe) is freaking intense. You can go to his web site www.kifightingconcepts.com and check out his history under the Our Instructors tab. There are also some great video clips under the In The Press tab.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Kacey (May 12, 2007)

I don't know anything about them... but welcome to MT, and happy posting!  :wavey:


----------



## Tames D (May 12, 2007)

Welcome. I don't know about his videos, but I've seen him in past issues of Inside Kung Fu.


----------



## tshadowchaser (May 12, 2007)

Welcome to MT.


----------



## 14 Kempo (May 12, 2007)

Hello and welcome to MT ... enjoy!


----------



## tellner (May 12, 2007)

Welcome to MT!

As a long time Sera student I would have to say that his Silat videos are complete crap. His other ones may be good. I'm not a Kenpo or WC player and am not in a position to judge. But for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster stay away from his Silat stuff.


----------



## MJS (May 13, 2007)

I have the Kenpo tapes he put out as well as the Wind and Rock series.  I've seen the Silat tapes as well.  Great quality and explainations.  Multiple angles as well, so you get a few different views.

As a reference tool, they're great.  If you're using them to learn from, I'd find a live instructor to do that from. 

Mike


----------



## kidswarrior (May 13, 2007)

Welcome to MT!  Don't have first hand knowledge of his materials, but can say, in my experience it's really difficult to master more than one art. I am seriously steeped in two arts, Shaolin Kempo and Kung Fu San Soo, and the best I could do was blend them. Was never able to compartmentalize the training (and not sure I wanted to, anyway--what's the point of cross training, if not to be able to use all the tools in your toolbox?). Anyway, just my limited perception, as I only want to see the best for you. 

And as MJS said, it's always best to train with a live instructor for a few years first. The DVD's could then suppplement that, in the best scenario.


----------



## Jade Tigress (May 13, 2007)

Welcome to Martial Talk!


----------



## mjd (May 13, 2007)

I say see if any one you know has one you can take on loan, check it out, if you like buy, if not don't buy, and buy the way welcome.


----------



## tellner (May 13, 2007)

MJS, with all due respect his Silat tapes are not good. He gets the basic motions wrong. Not just "My teacher showed me a little differently" wrong but "That just ain't right" wrong. His explanations are often inappropriate for the moves he's showing. His use of footwork is really poor Sera - terrible misinterpretations of the basic langkah-langkah. The forward lean, the body mechanics he says are there, completely missing the point of what juru-juru are about....

I could go on. For hours. I spent over twenty hours going over his first set of Silat tapes and the "Finding the Fight" ones. His Kenpo ones may well be very good. The Silat ones are very, very bad.


----------



## MJS (May 13, 2007)

tellner said:


> MJS, with all due respect his Silat tapes are not good. He gets the basic motions wrong. Not just "My teacher showed me a little differently" wrong but "That just ain't right" wrong. His explanations are often inappropriate for the moves he's showing. His use of footwork is really poor Sera - terrible misinterpretations of the basic langkah-langkah. The forward lean, the body mechanics he says are there, completely missing the point of what juru-juru are about....
> 
> I could go on. For hours. I spent over twenty hours going over his first set of Silat tapes and the "Finding the Fight" ones. His Kenpo ones may well be very good. The Silat ones are very, very bad.


 
No problem.   I know nothing of Silat.  I suppose my analogy was a bit misleading.  My appologies.   To me, it seemed like he was doing a good job with the breakdowns, etc.  Some tapes I've seen dont go into that much detail.  Seemed like he was spending alot of time talking about what he was doing, showing different angles, etc.  As far as technique wise, well, as I said, I shouldn't comment on that.  I'll take your word on it, seeing that you're more familiar with Silat. 

Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that there are different versions of Silat.  If that is the case, will that determine how the various moves are done?  Not trying to make an excuse for what he's doing in the tapes, just trying to understand the art. 

Mike


----------



## Obliquity (May 14, 2007)

MJS said:


> Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that there are different versions of Silat. If that is the case, will that determine how the various moves are done? Not trying to make an excuse for what he's doing in the tapes, just trying to understand the art.


 

I am interested in your answer to this as well. And a little background regarding your expertise, if you please.


----------



## MJS (May 14, 2007)

Obliquity said:


> I am interested in your answer to this as well. And a little background regarding your expertise, if you please.


 
I'm assuming you're talking about Tellner.  He is the one with the Silat background.  I'm a Kenpo guy!   I know nothing about Silat, whats right, whats wrong.  All I can go off of, is the tapes of Joe Simonet that I've seen.  

My Kenpo background is as follows:

Started in the Villari system.  Trained until Brown Belt.
Moved to the Parker System.
Currently training Tracy.
Currently a 3rd Degree Black Belt.

I train in Modern Arnis.  I'm a Brown belt at this time.

I also do some BJJ.  No rank at this time. 

Mike


----------



## Obliquity (May 14, 2007)

MJS said:


> I'm assuming you're talking about Tellner. He is the one with the Silat background. I'm a Kenpo guy!  I know nothing about Silat, whats right, whats wrong. All I can go off of, is the tapes of Joe Simonet that I've seen.
> 
> My Kenpo background is as follows:
> 
> ...


 

Yes, I was referring to Todd's post. And lest this be construed as as anything but curiosity, let me say that, yes, because I am beginning to develop a relationship with Sifu Joseph, I am concerned about the far-ranging comments made regarding his Silat tapes. At the same time, I admit to knowing pretty much zero about Silat, so welcome accurate, constructive information.

I am certainly not here to defend Sifu Joseph. It makes me chuckle just thinking about that. I know him to be quite thoughtful and articulate, and able to fend for himself. I do know that he has his detractors, but wouldn't we all agree that the martial arts are full of strong personalities and perhaps a few rather large egos?


Regarding your Kenpo stuff -- are you going to the Gathering of Eagles in Chicago next month? Sifu Joseph and Addy Hernandez will be there for induction into the Kenpo Hall of Fame as well as teaching at some of the seminars. Although invited to go along, I won't be able to make it this time around.

Regards,


----------



## MJS (May 14, 2007)

Obliquity said:


> Yes, I was referring to Todd's post. And lest this be construed as as anything but curiosity, let me say that, yes, because I am beginning to develop a relationship with Sifu Joseph, I am concerned about the far-ranging comments made regarding his Silat tapes. At the same time, I admit to knowing pretty much zero about Silat, so welcome accurate, constructive information.
> 
> I am certainly not here to defend Sifu Joseph. It makes me chuckle just thinking about that. I know him to be quite thoughtful and articulate, and able to fend for himself. I do know that he has his detractors, but wouldn't we all agree that the martial arts are full of strong personalities and perhaps a few rather large egos?


 
Well, I personally havent heard any negative things about him and I don't have an issue with him. 




> Regarding your Kenpo stuff -- are you going to the Gathering of Eagles in Chicago next month? Sifu Joseph and Addy Hernandez will be there for induction into the Kenpo Hall of Fame as well as teaching at some of the seminars. Although invited to go along, I won't be able to make it this time around.
> 
> Regards,


 
As much as I'd love to go, I'm probably going to have to pass.  Limited on vac. time at work and I already have a vac. planned in July with the wife.   Maybe next time around. 

Mike


----------



## Jade Tigress (May 14, 2007)

*Mod Note

Thread moved to General Martial Arts Forum.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator*


----------



## tellner (May 18, 2007)

Obliquity, sorry to take so long to respond.

I've been doing Silat for a while. Started off with Brandt Bollers and was with him for a couple years. When Guru Plinck moved to the area I began training with him. That was fifteen years ago. When he taught Bukti Negara I did that and was awarded a Guru Muda certification after a couple years (by the PDT Academy). He started teaching Sera a very short time later, so I switched over to that, what would it be, eleven years ago.

I encountered the Simonet Silat tapes because someone asked me to do a review of them. So I spent a lot of time going over them pretty carefully - regular speed, slow, going back to look at parts in detail. I simply wasn't favorably impressed. I'll admit right off that some of it was his initial comments, that trying to use Serak to fight was like, and I quote, "putting shoes on a snake" and a few others. One expects a person who's putting out a tape to toot his own horn, but that's a little off-putting. 

The technical aspects, though? I was as careful and thorough as I could be and really didn't think much of the material or its presentation in those tapes. The fact that he hadn't actually studied Sera/Serak and was holding forth on "finding the fight in the form" was a serious minus. Like Bukti Negara, the Tongkat he studied comes from Sera, but it isn't the same thing. As I mentioned, that strange turned over punch, the body mechanics of the elbow, the misuse of important langka langka and a lot more didn't help matters any. A lot of the stuff there was decent martial arts because he's an experienced martial artist. It simply wasn't good Silat and isn't in the same class as material by any number of other people who are more experienced in it. 

It could be that the tapes simply weren't a good representation of his skills. And he may well have improved since then. I can't speak to any of that. The only thing I have to go on is the tapes themselves, and they simply aren't up to par when judged against other material.


----------



## misfit69 (May 18, 2007)

I think tellner says it like it is.  He has a ton more info about Sera then I ever will.  I have done 4 or 5 seminars with Plinck and the man is a god to me.  My info comes a little more from where Joe learned his Silat as I was a student of Guru Bob Vanatta for 4 or 5 years.  Bob is the one that taught Joe his Silat and Bob flat out says that he showed Joe mostly Tongkat Silat, not Serak Silat.  From my understanding, Joe would have been ok putting out a Tongkat Silat video but that may has still pissed off Victor, I don't know.  However, him putting out a Serak Silat video got quite a few folks upset from my understanding.  I have worked out with Joe in the past and his overall MA experience is incredible but I could 100% understand where Tellner could find lots of wholes in his Sera side of Silat.  I know Bob was pissed cause Joe never really gave him the credit for teaching Joe.  Joe moved from Washington to Colorado Springs (where Bob is) to learn Silat.

I personally have not seen any of his videos but anybody that has worked out with Plinck for that long would have a very, very good understanding of Sera Silat.  I am curious Tellner, do you know a Jason from Colorado, he was a pretty good friend of mine.


----------



## misfit69 (May 18, 2007)

I guess I should also add that I would think his other videos would be ok.  I learned his Slam Set a long time ago and have since forgotten it along with the classical Wing Chun 108 dummy form but it was awesome for sure.  It had great drills and concepts to do if you are working out with a wooden dummy.  Slam Set has so much of Joe inside of it.  His intensity and power really shows in his Slam Set, I think I heard he has changed it since I first learned it in the mid 90s but Im sure it still has the same intensity.  I would also think any of his Wing Chun or Kempo videos would be good cause the man has a ton of experience in those areas for sure.  As mentioned before, there are a few people that do like to talk **** about Joe but not very many of these folks would like to fight him and that includes me big time.  And by no means do I think Tellner is talking crap, I think he absolutely correct about Joes Sera or Serak experience.


----------



## tellner (May 18, 2007)

Thanks misfit. That's just the point I was trying (ineptly) to make. Joseph Simonet has a lot of experience in a lot of things, and I wouldn't want to fight him except maybe with a scoped bolt gun from 200 meters away with cover, concealment and a spotter  But Sera is not his forte, so from a Silat perspective his Silat tapes aren't that good. He's a hell of a martial artist from all reports, just not in that field. I wouldn't go to my teacher for a Kendo or BJJ video. That's not what he does. Same thing.


----------



## tellner (May 18, 2007)

misfit69 said:


> I am curious Tellner, do you know a Jason from Colorado, he was a pretty good friend of mine.


Big Jason the truck driver or Tall Jason?


----------



## misfit69 (May 18, 2007)

The Jason I know is about 6'2" or 6'3"ish, about a solid 220ish I would say. Darker skin, usually a goatee or beard.  Tough as hell and very good IMO.


----------



## tellner (May 18, 2007)

Ah, that would be Tall Jason. I've only met him a couple times. Good guy.


----------



## misfit69 (May 20, 2007)

Yes he is Tellner, very skilled also.  He had the power side down but once he started training with Guru Plinck, he has become extremely soft which has just made him so much better.

Sorry for the hijack farangkorat, back to the Sifu Joe's tapes.  He is a very none BS instructor and I would think his other tapes would have very good info in them.  I would even guess to say that his Silat videos also have good info in them but the info would be more from Tongkat than Serak.  Again, I haven't seen his videos but the dude is good, without question.

However, being a newbie, not sure what you can really pick up from a video.  I think you really would need a good basics before you can really appreciate what a video has to offer.  Maybe I am wrong but unless you can get some real contact and feel what the instructor is trying to show you, not sure if you could pick it up.  So much of it IMO comes from feeling what is going on.  Guru Plinck is such a good example cause the guy moves you by hardly moving.  He works so little to destroy your base and then you are done, he knows it and you know it.  That's what the 1 on 1 gives you.  I would be afraid that if you are trying to learn it from a video, you would be just trying to duplicate the technique and not understand where the technique is really coming from.  Again, just my opinion, there are tons of schools that focus on just technique and can have some good results. However, once you understand where the technique is coming from, you can make any technique you wish.  Sorry to ramble but wanted it to get back on topic after I took it off topic.  Hope it helps.
Brian


----------



## Art Vandelay (Dec 7, 2007)

As a student of Sifu Joseph in the Art and Science of Mook Jong I have had a great deal of exposure to his knowledge base.  I have found all the videos useful as part of my training.  He has always shown and expressed a deep respect for all the arts in which he has trained.  Each video I own exposed me to a very detailed breakdown of the art covered and (what I really found useful) practice drills I could perform on my own or with a training partner.  This combined with the obvious advantage of one on one instruction has given me what I feel is a balanced exposure to combat martial arts as well as self defense techniques that really work in the real world.


----------



## Doc_Jude (Dec 7, 2007)

I second Tellner. His vids are good, he's got a lot of skill in a few arts, but his Silat definitely leaves something to be desired. Don't expect the Silat you learn from him to carry much weight beyond his training groups. Of course, you could go train with some actual Silat folks (Sera/k) and compare.


----------



## Obliquity (Dec 7, 2007)

Is that Art Vandelay -- the architect?

And thanks for slamming my head into the concrete last night. I needed that.


----------

