# Xingyiquan and Kung Fu San Soo



## Xue Sheng (Oct 1, 2008)

First I apologies to any Kung Fu San Soo people that read this, I do not know who Master Sam Silva is and all I know about Jimmy Woo is that Kung Fu San Soo in the US comes from him so if I am a bit off the mark here I am sorry but this is what my take on this is from the article that I read and I was surprised at the similarity. 

I was reading an article recently &#8220;Freeze the Mind&#8221; by Master Sam Silva. It is about Jimmy Woo and Kung Fu San Soo and I noticed something that is pretty prevalent in Xingyiquan. Due to the training style of Xingyiquan where in Santi you tend to focus on one point one tends to develop what has been called, by some Xingyiquan masters of old, &#8220;a poisonous look&#8221;. The intent, or at least my understanding of it based on my little experience in Xingyiquan, is to scare your opponent before the fight ever starts. And I can tell you that my last Xingyiquan Sifu could scare a person with a look and the gentleman I meant in Beijing that was in his 80s, a Buddhist, considerably smaller than me Xingyiquan master scared the hell out of me with this look. So I know it exists. 

What caught attention in the article by Sam Silva was what he says was Jimmy Woo&#8217;s favorite phrase &#8220;freeze his heart&#8221; meaning stop the persons heart with fear or, I assume, in other words make the aggressor fear what he just came up against, loose confidence and choose retreat over aggression. 

Is this actually overtly trained in Kung Fu San Soo?


Also as a note; I am aware that many styles of martial arts can develop this but generally it is a side effect and not directly trained, or at least that is my understanding of it. Xingyiquan trains it and it appears that Kung Fu San Soo does as well. However I have read that at higher levels of Xingyiquan that although the initial look is poisonous the face that is seen by an opponent during the fight can be rather relaxed and sometimes smiling. I can imagine this could shake up an opponent a bit as well, fighting like hell only to see the other guy smiling at you. I guess I should just chalk it up to psychological warfare of the old masters, but I do find this whole thing rather interesting.


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## clfsean (Oct 1, 2008)

It's like  Pan Qing-fu's famous quote in "Iron & Silk" ... 

"You hit them with your eyes first"...


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## oxy (Oct 1, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Also as a note; I am aware that many styles of martial arts can develop this but generally it is a side effect and not directly trained, or at least that is my understanding of it.



In LHBF, the Five Word Poem has a line in it along the lines of "the eyes becomes lightning" or something of the sort. My teacher specifically makes a big deal out of "looking forward" at all times during the form. When I was an assistant instructor, I tended not to teach anything new until the student stopped looking at his hands or the ground in front. For advanced students, my teacher also looks for the intent in the eyes. How much intent is in the eyes tends to be a reflection of how much intent you have in the application of the forms. This has only been my experience in my own little corner of the LHBF world though. A lot of other LHBFers tend to look at their hands a lot but they still should train the eyes to become lightning.


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## kidswarrior (Oct 1, 2008)

I know little about Xingyi other than what I've read or seen on tape, but my impression has been all good. Do know some small amount about San Soo, having trained for four and a half years (and hopefully again soon) under one of Jimmy's first gen. masters. He told many, many stories of Jimmy, and of course there are many other masters who have written much as well, some of which I've read.

So, with this caveat on my limited experience, a couple of thoughts:

First, my instructor himself has this look. It's pretty fascinating to watch, because he'll be explaining something in this soft, pleasant voice, then he demonstrates slowly on a high-ranking student, and then he'll demonstrate with *intent*. When he enters this intent phase, it's like he flips a switch (his phrase), and goes from nice gentleman in his 70s, to killer--no exaggeration here. 

Second, just to relate one of the stories about Jimmy. One day it is said he was on the freeway and had a disagreement with a trucker. They pulled over, and when they got out, the trucker towered over Jimmy. Instead of this being an advantage however, Jimmy reputedly said, 'Too bad, today you die'. The trucker turned on his heel without saying a word, went back to his truck and drove away. I can imagine the look that accompanied Jimmy's pronouncement.

Don't know if this really answers the question, but at least I got to tell a San Soo story. 

________
Just re read Oxy's post carefully, and see he speaks of intent several times.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 5, 2008)

clfsean said:


> It's like Pan Qing-fu's famous quote in "Iron & Silk" ...
> 
> "You hit them with your eyes first"...


 
Did you ever train with that guy, he is one intense person that&#8217;s for sure. 

Thanks I forgot about that, it could be a CMA thing. 



oxy said:


> In LHBF, the Five Word Poem has a line in it along the lines of "the eyes becomes lightning" or something of the sort. My teacher specifically makes a big deal out of "looking forward" at all times during the form. When I was an assistant instructor, I tended not to teach anything new until the student stopped looking at his hands or the ground in front. For advanced students, my teacher also looks for the intent in the eyes. How much intent is in the eyes tends to be a reflection of how much intent you have in the application of the forms. This has only been my experience in my own little corner of the LHBF world though. A lot of other LHBFers tend to look at their hands a lot but they still should train the eyes to become lightning.


 
Thank you, I was not aware of that in LHBF. 



kidswarrior said:


> I know little about Xingyi other than what I've read or seen on tape, but my impression has been all good. Do know some small amount about San Soo, having trained for four and a half years (and hopefully again soon) under one of Jimmy's first gen. masters. He told many, many stories of Jimmy, and of course there are many other masters who have written much as well, some of which I've read.
> 
> So, with this caveat on my limited experience, a couple of thoughts:
> 
> ...


 
I hope you get back to San Soo soon. 

Part of the article I read also had that story about Jimmy Woo in it and it was that plus what he said about freezing their heart that got me thinking about this. 

As to the switch, I have seen a similar thing in Xingyiquan that of late I am certain was a test for me and I failed. When I had that brief encounter (via translator) with the Xingyi guy in Beijing when I was looking for a teacher he did something similar to me. He was in his 80s (I think) a Buddhist and considerably shorter than I. He had trained Xingyiquan and Baguazhang most of his life and at first appearance had this very (for lack of better a word) serene look on his face. That was until the Xingyiquan part of the discussion started and then his eyes became very different and very scary and made me feel wholly inadequate to even ask him to teach me, not to mention giving me the impression that I just may be about to get my butt kicked. That is one of those things I REALLY wish I could do over but I can&#8217;t. 

But back to topic you did answer my question thank you.


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## mook jong man (Oct 5, 2008)

I have seen that look as well , years ago when i first started Wing Chun i was doing a course for my job in the city . I did not know but Sigung Tsui Seung Tin was in Sydney to visit his top student who was my Sifu .

 Anyway it was about 7am and i was walking up the street to where the course was held and in the distance i could see a skinny old chinese man with a very upright posture for somebody of that age .

 He was just browsing in the store windows and as i got closer i thought oh my god that is Sigung , i recognised him from the pictures on the wall at the kwoon , in fact we bowed to his picture after every class .

 I was so excited that i shouted out HEY SIGUNG , well i must have startled him because he turned to me and the look he gave me turned me to ice , for a second i thought i was going to die . 

He didn't understand english so i was frantically trying to explain by waving my hands around in chi sao motions that i trained under Sifu Jim on the other side of town . 

Luckily when i mentioned Sifu Jim he understood and a big smile broke out across his face and he started laughing , we both had a bit of a chuckle and then i said goodbye as i was late for my course .

 Apparently he is a avid walker and in the early morning he will walk about 10 kilometres no matter where he is , so if you ever see an old skinny chinese gentleman with a very straight back walking down the street it could very well be him .


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