# The cane



## Xue Sheng (Feb 3, 2008)

How does one go about learning the cane when there are no teachers that teach it anywhere near by and seminars are not here either?

It seems to me that in this day in age it is a highly practical weapon


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## ArmorOfGod (Feb 3, 2008)

I am a huge fan of the cane also.
If you are in your situation, sadly videos may be the way to go.  There are the Canemaster series,  there is another hapkido series by Azkakh Farbiroz http://www.centurymartialarts.com/d...itemguid=a37d4c2e-3de4-460f-b51b-948edfde83df, then this other one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hapkido-4-Fight...eZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem , and I have heard good things about this one by Gordon Oster: http://www.centurymartialarts.com/?Tabid=53&itemguid=af5f42e1-7e97-4664-9a2c-70356f48bfe7

If video is not your thing, then you may search out a local ninjutsu or escrima school.  Many of their short staff techniques are the same (minus crook moves).  This would be a very good start to build your cane move base.

AoG


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## tshadowchaser (Feb 3, 2008)

Personally I think one can learn much from doing ones forms with a cane instead of any other weapon. Also if you practice all you self defense moves with a cane you eventually learn to adapt it in many ways.
I have not seen the cane masters series but I have seen some of their forms preformed and I personally am not impressed. Way to many moves for the sake of being fancy and not enough real world use of the cane and follow up techniques. But that is just MHO


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## jks9199 (Feb 3, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> How does one go about learning the cane when there are no teachers that teach it anywhere near by and seminars are not here either?
> 
> It seems to me that in this day in age it is a highly practical weapon


There are various books and videos out there; I can't really critique any of them, but they're worth a shot, since I know you've got a solid basis to apply what you learn.  The other thing you can do is work with the cane, and apply your empty hand techniques and principles, using it to extend your reach.  For example -- pick up a cane (hook or straight), and see how your blocking techniques fit with it.  See how you can throw a punch while holding the cane.  You may find that you already know a lot more cane than you realize by applying principle from other weapons or empty hand.


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## Drac (Feb 3, 2008)

Check out the CaneMaster DVD's at www.*canemasters*.com/


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## kidswarrior (Feb 3, 2008)

tshadowchaser said:


> Personally I think one can learn much from doing ones forms with a cane instead of any other weapon. Also if you practice all you self defense moves with a cane you eventually learn to adapt it in many ways.


My thoughts exactly. I'll sometimes do a sword form with the cane, try to use it in place of the staff in that form, etc. Amazing the applications that come to mind.



> I have not seen the cane masters series but I have seen some of their forms preformed and I personally am not impressed. Way to many moves for the sake of being fancy and not enough real world use of the cane and follow up techniques. But that is just MHO


Agreed. I have seen the series, and while adequate, there are other possibilities. The actual canes, tho, are combat-good, if pricey. But there are other threads here about actual canes available, so I'll leave it at that.


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## chinto (Feb 4, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> My thoughts exactly. I'll sometimes do a sword form with the cane, try to use it in place of the staff in that form, etc. Amazing the applications that come to mind.
> Agreed. I have seen the series, and while adequate, there are other possibilities. The actual canes, tho, are combat-good, if pricey. But there are other threads here about actual canes available, so I'll leave it at that.




I have to say I agree, do your kata with a cane in your hand and see where and how it might be applied. especially staff forms.. also look and see if any one teaches Kobudo/Kobujitsu in your aria as the hanbo kata would work well with any cane...


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

To get your Dan ranking in the CaneMasters you have to come up with techniques of your own besides the regular ciriculumn.. The possibilities are endless and limited to your imagination...


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 4, 2008)

Thanks

My only prior experience with a cane was when I broke my ankle andI will admit I did on occasion treat it like a Jain when I was board. I also use to train Xingyi staff which is shorter than the taiji, Shaolin, Wing Chun staff but not as short as the average cane (Xingyi staff is about 5" long) so I was wondering if any of that would be useful. 

It appears that the Canemaster series comes highly recommended so I will check it out. 

Thanks for all the help


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## shesulsa (Feb 4, 2008)

Admin note: Moved to General Weapons Discussion. - G Ketchmark / shesulsa, MT Assist. Admin.


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

shesulsa said:


> Admin note: Moved to General Weapons Discussion. - G Ketchmark / shesulsa, MT Assist. Admin.


 
Why didn't I suggest that..


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 4, 2008)

Checking Canemaster I realized I have a Hickory Burnt Wood Cane already. It was what I was using to get around back when I broke my ankle after I was off crutches... cool... It was also what I used for my stationary Jian and ocassional Dao stuff when I was bored.

And the price seem to be pretty reasonable, any suggestions as to what is the best cane to buy?

I also found that there is a certified Cane Master instructor about 4 hours from me

I am not big on learning from video but it may be my only option at this time and I see on Century and CaneMaster there are a few to consider.

Also looking at the century link I realized there is a Hapkido school near me but I do not know if they teach cane.



Drac said:


> To get your Dan ranking in the CaneMasters you have to come up with techniques of your own besides the regular ciriculumn.. The possibilities are endless and limited to your imagination...


 
Can it involve trees :EG:


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## kidswarrior (Feb 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Also looking at the century link I realized there is a Hapkido school near me but I do not know if they teach cane.


In my experience, HKD instructors 3rd BB and up usually have some cane experience. But again that's just my experience.


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Can it involve trees :EG:


 
Prolly...It will be a dbl defeat for them...Canes are wood, wood comes from trees..Now you will beat the trees with a wooden cane..Man, that too deep for me....


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> In my experience, HKD instructors 3rd BB and up usually have some cane experience. But again that's just my experience.


 
You are correct Sir...


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## kidswarrior (Feb 4, 2008)

Drac said:


> You are correct Sir...


You mean I'm not _always_ right? :duh:


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 4, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> In my experience, HKD instructors 3rd BB and up usually have some cane experience. But again that's just my experience.


 


Drac said:


> You are correct Sir...


 
But would they teach cane without having to be one of thier hapkido students?


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> But would they teach cane without having to be one of thier hapkido students?


 
Boy that's a good question....In my Shorin-Ryu days weapons were only taught to brown belts and above..I know that the Combat Hapkido Federation sells a cane DVD


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## Drac (Feb 4, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> You mean I'm not _always_ right? :duh:


 
Well ermm..annn..errr...aahh *...NO!!!*


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 4, 2008)

Drac said:


> Boy that's a good question....In my Shorin-Ryu days weapons were only taught to brown belts and above..I know that the Combat Hapkido Federation sells a cane DVD


 
Thanks, I will have to check.


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## crushing (Feb 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Thanks, I will have to check.


 

In case you haven't run across it yet:

http://www.dsihq.com/ProShop/index....h=1_11&zenid=ed53fbb711a31e02c5cc7b91addf73e0


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 4, 2008)

crushing said:


> In case you haven't run across it yet:
> 
> http://www.dsihq.com/ProShop/index....h=1_11&zenid=ed53fbb711a31e02c5cc7b91addf73e0


 
Thanks


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## kidswarrior (Feb 4, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> My only prior experience with a cane was when I broke my ankle andI will admit I did on occasion treat it like a Jain when I was board. I also use to train Xingyi staff which is shorter than the taiji, Shaolin, Wing Chun staff but not as short as the average cane (Xingyi staff is about 5" long) so I was wondering if any of that would be useful.


*Yes!* 

BTW, when trying it out in various forms/techniques designed for other weapons, I've had some fun with changing up which end I grip. One time, I'll grip the crook end, but then it's fun to switch to the tip end, and see what the horn/crook is capable of. If you think of the old karate maxim that you should imagine any hand/fist returning to the body always has something in it, then the returning crook would always have something in it--or the horn might be puncturing meat as you pull it back toward you.  OK, I was a Navy Corpsman and things that are supposed to gross people out don't get to me, so I'll stop since this might be getting a little too graphic--I'm abnormal, but I'm not in denial  Anyway you get the idea.


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> *Yes!*
> 
> BTW, when trying it out in various forms/techniques designed for other weapons, I've had some fun with changing up which end I grip. One time, I'll grip the crook end, but then it's fun to switch to the tip end, and see what the horn/crook is capable of. If you think of the old karate maxim that you should imagine any hand/fist returning to the body always has something in it, then the returning crook would always have something in it--or the horn might be puncturing meat as you pull it back toward you.  OK, I was a Navy Corpsman and things that are supposed to gross people out don't get to me, so I'll stop since this might be getting a little too graphic--I'm abnormal, but I'm not in denial  Anyway you get the idea.


 
I grew up with parents whose careers were medical, I spent many years in hospital security in ERs so your not bothering me at all. You should hear some of my stories


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 5, 2008)

Here is a bit of irony

Yes the Hapkido School near me does teach combat cane and you do not have to be a hapkido student to train with them... this is good

But a new twist, I may actually need a cane again soon just to walk.... this is bad.

Something kind of appeared in the bottom of my foot that will likely need surgery (apparently I stepped on something during my life that got stuck inside that now is trying to come out) and since I cant walk to well today since I have this constant feeling of a rather large stone in my arch. So I decided to go see the MD and likely surgery soon, I guess all training may be done for awhile.


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## kidswarrior (Feb 5, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Here is a bit of irony
> 
> Yes the Hapkido School near me does teach combat cane and you do not have to be a hapkido student to train with them... this is good
> 
> ...


Ouch. Sorry to hear that X S. Probably ill-timed now, but here's another thought on training, when you're later able: http://www.ninedragonbaguazhang.com/weapon.htm While they don't now list the cane, they have in the past, and could probably customize a weekend for you.

Also, even when you're laid up, you're going to have the cane close at hand, so could experiment form the chair/bed (don't hurt any nurses or family members, tho ). Keep us posted my friend. :asian:


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## still learning (Feb 6, 2008)

Hello, Have you seen the unbreakable Umbrella?  ...come two ways...a straight handle and the hook ..like a cane handle!

Cool and legal to carry everywhere!

Aloha,  Do we need one in Hawaii?  for the sunshine?


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## Xue Sheng (Feb 6, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Ouch. Sorry to hear that X S. Probably ill-timed now, but here's another thought on training, when you're later able: http://www.ninedragonbaguazhang.com/weapon.htm While they don't now list the cane, they have in the past, and could probably customize a weekend for you.


 
Thanks



kidswarrior said:


> Also, even when you're laid up, you're going to have the cane close at hand, so could experiment form the chair/bed (don't hurt any nurses or family members, tho ). Keep us posted my friend. :asian:


 
I have thought of that :EG:



still learning said:


> Hello, Have you seen the unbreakable Umbrella? ...come two ways...a straight handle and the hook ..like a cane handle!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good idea


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## kidswarrior (Feb 6, 2008)

still learning said:


> Hello, Have you seen the unbreakable Umbrella?  ...come two ways...a straight handle and the hook ..like a cane handle!
> 
> Cool and legal to carry everywhere!


I like this idea too. Aren't they about 200 bucks, tho?


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## Doc_Jude (Feb 6, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> I like this idea too. Aren't they about 200 bucks, tho?



No, they're like $150


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## kidswarrior (Apr 21, 2008)

A recent (?) Youtube piece on very basic cane stuff from a traditional hapkido standpoint. Nothing earth shaking, but simple, solid techs and may give ideas for some who are less familiar with the cane.

One caveat: A little too much baseball striking for me in the opening scenarios (wasted motion, since it takes two moves and the first telegraphs/costs time you don't have), but otherwise pretty good.


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## IcemanSK (Nov 22, 2008)

I just bought 2 canemaster cane & their "street techniques" dvd. My issues with these dvd's & ideas are 1) I am only really able to use one hand for the most part due to my disability & most Hapkido techniques (especially with a cane) are 2 handed techniques. 2) I actually NEED the cane to get around right now & it limits my mobility & quickness. Shuey & the other folks I've seen obviously don't NEED a cane to get around.


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## Drac (Nov 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I just bought 2 canemaster cane & their "street techniques" dvd. My issues with these dvd's & ideas are 1) I am only really able to use one hand for the most part due to my disability & most Hapkido techniques (especially with a cane) are 2 handed techniques. 2) I actually NEED the cane to get around right now & it limits my mobility & quickness. Shuey & the other folks I've seen obviously don't NEED a cane to get around.


 
No, Shuey doesn't, but I have met others at seminars that did....


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## terryl965 (Nov 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I just bought 2 canemaster cane & their "street techniques" dvd. My issues with these dvd's & ideas are 1) I am only really able to use one hand for the most part due to my disability & most Hapkido techniques (especially with a cane) are 2 handed techniques. 2) I actually NEED the cane to get around right now & it limits my mobility & quickness. Shuey & the other folks I've seen obviously don't NEED a cane to get around.


 
Yes you are right, but alot of the techs. can be done and midified for one arm. There are people I know that uses it to get around but can still be effective with the cane itself.


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## Rich Parsons (Nov 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I just bought 2 canemaster cane & their "street techniques" dvd. My issues with these dvd's & ideas are 1) I am only really able to use one hand for the most part due to my disability & most Hapkido techniques (especially with a cane) are 2 handed techniques. 2) I actually NEED the cane to get around right now & it limits my mobility & quickness. Shuey & the other folks I've seen obviously don't NEED a cane to get around.


 

From the earliest memories of my Maternal Grandfather, he was in a wheel chair and had a cane he took with him as well. I learned from him how he used it to pull thing closer, and also how he could use it to leverage is chair, and many other techniques. I thought everyone had a grandfather in a wheel chair and would learn such things for a long time. I then realized later that my family was not the norm. 

My Paternal Grandfather walked until is late 90's. The last couple of years of his life. (* 97 & 98 almost 99 *) He used one cane in his early 90's for balance and late 80's when he was tired or the terrain required it. I learned from him that a walking stick is a great add on a train walk. He then went to two canes, as he would not push around one of those ugly walkers.   He was stubborn. Well he taught me that one could be used for balance while the other could be used as a tool to reach for things. The issue was that he started much later in his life than my other grandfather and he never was as good or natural with the tool aspect. The last couple of years he was in a chair but would get off for bed and bathroom. But even then he would need assistance. 


My point is to start using the tool for it was designed. 

Once you get a little comfortable with it you will naturally start to use if as a tool to assist in moving objects and items closer to you or away from your. Begin to do this. This will teach you the leverage of you to the tool to the item. This helps you understand your limitation. Such as would you try to hook a 300 lb 6'3" gorilla type and bring them to you, or would you just bash them up side the head multiple times? 

Once you understand your balance and some of the capabilities of the tool, then find a very willing partner who understand what you are going to do and will let you do it. Yes, I let you do it. You have to learn the motions first. Once you get the motions and the techniques you need to then have the person give very limited resistance. Your balance will have to be adjusted next. 

I could also recommend find a blind person who is willing to tell you about the sensitivity of their cane and how they use it. 

The best way to get useful results from a tool is to understand the attributes of the tool. 


Good Luck and Best Wishes


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## kaizasosei (Nov 23, 2008)

Checkout 'Stickfighting' by Grandmaster Hatsumi masaaki.

Thats a good book.   Also, i would take a look at some of the locks practiced in escrima.  There is one dutch escrima master that has some pretty cool and very effective looking locks, also done with a cane- i don't remember the name right now, but the clips can be found on youtube.  Also i think there are some old threads here on mt that display canemoves.

As for the striking, i think it's fairly selfexplanitory and can be based in basically any martial arts system.

there are some locks that apply to the tonfa and some that apply to the curved-top type cane,  however, there are a number of different shaped canes that can be used in different ways to apply locks or carry out effective strikes or blocks.



j


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## IcemanSK (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for your responses, folks. Time to focus, & a knowledgeable partner to train with would be most helpful right now. I need to heal up while trying to work my job & run my school, too. 

I know there are others out there who have similiar physical issues & have worked around them. I'd love to meet some & work with them. 

I guess all my anticipation in getting my canes, I thought it would be easier. An unexpected road block won't stop me, just slow me down a bit. It's probably a good thing.

Thanks again!


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## grydth (Nov 23, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Checking Canemaster I realized I have a Hickory Burnt Wood Cane already. It was what I was using to get around back when I broke my ankle after I was off crutches... cool... It was also what I used for my stationary Jian and ocassional Dao stuff when I was bored.
> 
> And the price seem to be pretty reasonable, any suggestions as to what is the best cane to buy?
> 
> ...



I'm curious in what city was this instructor located....

General point for all - check you state's laws. The actual sword canes are popular - but against the law in New York.


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## jks9199 (Nov 23, 2008)

Good point.  I think most states would consider them a concealed weapon...  I know I'd charge someone with carrying a concealed weapon for having a sword cane, if the situation warrented.


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## Xue Sheng (Nov 24, 2008)

grydth said:


> I'm curious in what city was this instructor located....
> 
> General point for all - check you state's laws. The actual sword canes are popular - but against the law in New York.


 
I am not interested in a sword cane at all, just a cane.


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## kidswarrior (Nov 25, 2008)

Rich Parsons said:


> My point is to start using the tool for it was designed.
> 
> Once you get a little comfortable with it you will naturally start to use if as a tool to assist in moving objects and items closer to you or away from your. Begin to do this. This will teach you the leverage of you to the tool to the item. This helps you understand your limitation. Such as would you try to hook a 300 lb 6'3" gorilla type and bring them to you, or would you just bash them up side the head multiple times?
> 
> ...


Solid advice, I'm thinkin'. 

I might follow Rich's suggestion with maybe the next logical step. Substitute the cane for one of your weapons forms. Just let it flow, looking for discoveries of how the tool in hand might be adapted. Example: I'll sometimes practice my saber form with a cane or shillelagh. Or, the staff form. Interesting ideas pop up. Anyway, works for me.


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## grydth (Dec 11, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I just bought 2 canemaster cane & their "street techniques" dvd. My issues with these dvd's & ideas are 1) I am only really able to use one hand for the most part due to my disability & most Hapkido techniques (especially with a cane) are 2 handed techniques. 2) I actually NEED the cane to get around right now & it limits my mobility & quickness. Shuey & the other folks I've seen obviously don't NEED a cane to get around.



Thanks to the exchanges I saw here, I ordered - and just received - their self defense manual. There do appear to be one handed techniques and they do mention a purpose of their art is to extent fitness and defense opportunities to the elders and disabled. I'm going to spend some real time with it and perhaps post a review...

Included was a brochure on other products available. I believe some mentioned the author had some disability... at least one such. item appears on their website as well.


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## Drac (Dec 11, 2008)

grydth said:


> Thanks to the exchanges I saw here, I ordered - and just received - their self defense manual. There do appear to be one handed techniques and they do mention a purpose of their art is to extent fitness and defense opportunities to the elders and disabled. I'm going to spend some real time with it and perhaps post a review...
> 
> Included was a brochure on other products available. I believe some mentioned the author had some disability... at least one such. item appears on their website as well.


 
Keep us posted...


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## grydth (Dec 11, 2008)

Will do. 

I want to sample a dvd as well, and maybe run down for a class  after the holiday season. There's apparently a dojo about an hour away that has an accredited cane instructor - would really like to visit there once the Holiday Hysteria abates.....


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## Drac (Dec 11, 2008)

grydth said:


> Will do.
> 
> I want to sample a dvd as well, and maybe run down for a class after the holiday season. There's apparently a dojo about an hour away that has an accredited cane instructor - would really like to visit there once the Holiday Hysteria abates.....


 
Look to see if there is an upcoming *CaneMaster* seminar near you..It would be worth it...


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## IcemanSK (Dec 13, 2008)

The irony for me is that when I needed my cane to get around, I had significantly less ability to learn to use the cane for SD. Now that I'm healing up & don't use it as often, I have time to "play" with it a bit to work things through.


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## Rich Parsons (Dec 13, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> The irony for me is that when I needed my cane to get around, I had significantly less ability to learn to use the cane for SD. Now that I'm healing up & don't use it as often, I have time to "play" with it a bit to work things through.


 
But now that you know more about it, the next time (* And let us hope there is no next time *) you will be better off. Also you can help others who are using canes as well to realize the effect of the tool.


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2008)

Same here--when I got a cane it was differently weighted than the arnis sticks I was used to and with one bad leg it wasn't as easy developing a good feel for the differences. Still, I felt I could make use of it!


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## Drac (Dec 13, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> The irony for me is that when I needed my cane to get around, I had significantly less ability to learn to use the cane for SD. Now that I'm healing up & don't use it as often, I have time to "play" with it a bit to work things through.


 
Experimentation is a good thing...


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