# hi, i am a totall newbie



## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

Hello all willingtohelpmates, i am looking for really experienced martials artists who have an idea or complete view on martial arts in common, because i need some serious help with choosing the best for me. I'm 21 y old, its a bit late to choose a martia art, on which you are going to build your life, so i need one which fits my current life "perfectly". Here are few ideas, what it must not contain: jointlocks, especially wristlocks (cause i'm an artist, and a masseur too,soo any damage to my wrist ends my carrier); punches and kicks. I want a 99% percent SOFT deffensive martial art,evading opponents attack and using its swing/momentum to counterattack, and i would like to get physical strenght. With further commenting i might be able to transfer the whole essence of the martial art im looking for.


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## tshadowchaser (Mar 31, 2014)

First and most important  welcome to MT.
now as far as arts that fit what you are looking for I'm not sure there are any that do not have at least some of the things you said you do not want.
Aikido might me your best bet. other than that Tai Chi


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## wingchun100 (Mar 31, 2014)

Welcome to the board. I agree with the other reply. The closest thing might be aikido.


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## clfsean (Mar 31, 2014)

You say it can't contain wrist locks, punches or kicks. You say it's too late at 21 to build for the rest of your life. You say it must be strictly defensive. 

I am afraid you've cut your choices down to almost exactly nothing.  For the record, I know plenty of professional musicians (drummers, guitarists, keyboardists), professional medical providers (surgical MDs, restorative therapy providers,  etc...), trade craftsmen, etc... that have done MAs for as many years, if not a few of them more than me with no ill effects to their hands. It's all about proper training & an open mind.

Give some thought to about what you can do & what's available as opposed to trying to fit absolute restrictions on what you're still looking into just yet.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 31, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Hello all willingtohelpmates, i am looking for really experienced martials artists who have an idea or complete view on martial arts in common, because i need some serious help with choosing the best for me. I'm 21 y old, its a bit late to choose a martia art, on which you are going to build your life, so i need one which fits my current life "perfectly". Here are few ideas, what it must not contain: jointlocks, especially wristlocks (cause i'm an artist, and a masseur too,soo any damage to my wrist ends my carrier); punches and kicks. I want a 99% percent SOFT deffensive martial art,evading opponents attack and using its swing/momentum to counterattack, and i would like to get physical strenght. With further commenting i might be able to transfer the whole essence of the martial art im looking for.



1) 21 years old is not particularly late to choose a martial art or begin training.

2) What do you mean by "m_artial art on which you are going to build your life"_?  Very few people "build their lives" on their martial arts practice.  If you have never trained and have little idea of what martial arts practice involves, then there's not much point in thinking about building your life on your martial arts practice.

3) The list of martial arts that contain no punching, kicking, or wristlocks is very, very small.  There are some pure grappling arts (judo, wrestling, and the like) which do not involve wristlocks, but they have at least as much potential for injury as the arts which do and they also don't fit your "pure defense" idea.  

4) The idea of a 99% defensive art that relies entirely on evading and using the opponent's force is mostly a fantasy.  Aikido might be the closest you can find to that ideal, but they use plenty of wristlocks.

5) I'm a former professional massage therapist. (I got out because I was terrible at self-promotion and being a small business person, but I still do massage for friends and family). I also play guitar, which requires use of my hands.  I've been training for over 30 years in arts which involve punching, kicking, and wristlocks without problems.  I think you may be overestimating the danger to your career.  If you want to be extra-cautious you could avoid the arts that do significant wristlock practice and still have a decent list of arts to choose from.

6) Perhaps if you let us know what your motivations for studying a martial art are, we could give some better suggestions.


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## sfs982000 (Mar 31, 2014)

Welcome to the forums!


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## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

thank you all for your fast and constructive replies. you are all right, its a very strict description, but i have a cloudy image in my mind that i want to release, build; i look at martial arts as self-expression which brings to outside whats chained inside. I will try to paste some videos from youtube about some techniques im interested in, maybe there is a forgotten martial art which fits me =))


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## hussaf (Mar 31, 2014)

I know professional artists, massage therapists, surgeons, and concert violinist who all do joint manipulative martial arts.


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## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

My motivation..i have serious inner problem like acute agression, beeing a naturally skinny guy, i want to beat that down, i want to realese and nullify that tension.+ several others, i seek totall inner controll, beat my ego, demons and my own set chains. On the outer part how i said bellow, there is a cloudy image in my mind about what i want to excercise(as martial art). By 99% defensive i ment, that i do not want to start a fight, but i will glady take it, i dont want attacking long range punches and kickes, nor joint locks, i want fast close counter strikes for the attackers movement to send him on the ground, kick its legs to lose its balance.. etc etc, useable on streets and real life.


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## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

i really like the motions at the beginning in this one 



 (pencak silat) close ranged counter strikes      and this at 0:19


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 31, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> thank you all for your fast and constructive replies. you are all right, its a very strict description, but i have a cloudy image in my mind that i want to release, build; *i look at martial arts as self-expression which brings to outside whats chained inside*. I will try to paste some videos from youtube about some techniques im interested in, maybe there is a forgotten martial art which fits me =))



If you are interested in self-expression rather than anything combative, then you are really looking for dance rather than a martial art.  Maybe contact improv would be a good place to start.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 31, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> i really like the motions at the beginning in this one
> 
> 
> 
> (pencak silat) close ranged counter strikes      and this at 0:19



Pencak Silat has plenty of punching and kicking, including in the clips you just posted.

If you are primarily drawn to the beauty of the movement rather than the actual application, then you can probably find a school that focuses on the performance aspects of the forms rather than their original intended usage.  The serious martial artists on this forum tend to complain about schools like that, but if it makes you happy, then go for it.


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## Blindside (Mar 31, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Hello all willingtohelpmates, i am looking for really experienced martials artists who have an idea or complete view on martial arts in common, because i need some serious help with choosing the best for me. I'm 21 y old, its a bit late to choose a martia art, on which you are going to build your life, so i need one which fits my current life "perfectly". Here are few ideas, what it must not contain: jointlocks, especially wristlocks (cause i'm an artist, and a masseur too,soo any damage to my wrist ends my carrier); punches and kicks. I want a 99% percent SOFT deffensive martial art,evading opponents attack and using its swing/momentum to counterattack, and i would like to get physical strenght. With further commenting i might be able to transfer the whole essence of the martial art im looking for.



So are you nearby some area that has a vast variety of martial arts to choose from?  Your ability to learn an art will be dictated by what instruction is available to you, it does you little good to find some art or some subset of some art that meets your needs but then find that there is only one instructor in the country teaching it and you are 2000 miles from that location.


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## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

i view massage as self expression too, same as martial art, i have something that i want to release, excercise, and polish till its "perfect" thats what self expression to me is. Yes there are punches and kicks but see the actual movement i want to show in the 1st video 0:08 and 0:19 in the other, this is what i seek, and as i mentioned above i want to actualy is it if necesary on streets, these are the two the inner and the outer parts of my martial art.


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## J0c3r (Mar 31, 2014)

Blindside said:


> So are you nearby some area that has a vast variety of martial arts to choose from?  Your ability to learn an art will be dictated by what instruction is available to you, it does you little good to find some art or some subset of some art that meets your needs but then find that there is only one instructor in the country teaching it and you are 2000 miles from that location.



Yes, im living in a capital, so there are quite a lot.


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## clfsean (Mar 31, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Yes, im living in a capital, so there are quite a lot.



Then the best thing to do is go out & touch what all you can without preconceived notions or pigeon holes. See what's there & what works for you by trying rather than thinking. 

Your body will tell you much better than your mind or imagination.


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## Tames D (Mar 31, 2014)

Welcome to MT. The best 99% defensive art that I can think of is Running.


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## TaiChiTJ (Mar 31, 2014)

Capoeira is a martial dance done to music. It does involve kicks but they rarely land on the capoerist in performance/practice.

http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/this-is-capoeira/DdAB1QnJv01xr0TFg0CXDA


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## Takai (Mar 31, 2014)

Welcome to MT. Like Tony I was also LMT for a number of years and at the time I trained in both Aikido and Kenpo. Never had an issue with being to apply my trade due to an injury during training.

You keep talking about self expression. Until you have a solid grasp and understanding of the basics self-expression is simply just a way for you to get hit easier. Go try out some schools, find one you like and focus on what they are teaching you. Self-expression comes much further down the road.


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## ballen0351 (Mar 31, 2014)

Find a sport oriented JUDO dojo.  They wont teach much of the kicks and punches and wrist locks since they are not allowed in competition but if you need to use it in real life throwing someone on the hard ground tends to take the fight out of an attacker  HOWEVER  I think by excluding strikes your going to have a huge hole in your defense.


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## K-man (Mar 31, 2014)

Welcome to MT. 

I think that you might be chasing an impossible dream if you you are really intent on finding what you are describing. Any martial art that is 'martial' has strikes. Most train open hand strikes which are less likely to damage your hand than say punching to the head with a closed fist. But then all arts that utilise punching will show you how to punch safely.

The first video contained techniques that are very similar to Okinawan Goju karate. I know karate might seem totally at odds with your criteria but I have not sustained hand or joint injury in many years of training karate. On the other hand. Aikido would seem to fit much more closely with your requirements but in the much shorter time I have been studying aikido I have had multiple joint strains, particularly elbow injuries.

Another MA that might fit your criteria is Systema. A lot of the training is done soft and slow, similar in some ways to Aikido.

The best thing is to wander around your area looking at what is available to see if what you are looking for actually exists.
:asian:


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## WaterGal (Mar 31, 2014)

Yeah, I'd recommend going and just seeing what exists in your area and what their classes look like.  I also think you're overly worried about striking - kicking or punching someone while wearing protective sparring gear really isn't that dangerous.  You might jam your finger or rub your knuckle raw and be hurting for a few days, but it won't end your career.


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## drop bear (Apr 1, 2014)

Judo.....

No joint locks,no punching,defensive, uses a bit of oponants strength.

And generally easier to tell a quality school from a crap one.


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## seasoned (Apr 1, 2014)

Welcome to Martial Talk. Your journey of a 1000 miles starts with the first step. By joining MT it opens you up to a vast resource of information to help you in a decision to find what you are looking for. Move around the site and ask a lot of questions, good luck on your search.


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## Chris Parker (Apr 1, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Hello all willingtohelpmates, i am looking for really experienced martials artists who have an idea or complete view on martial arts in common, because i need some serious help with choosing the best for me. I'm 21 y old, its a bit late to choose a martia art, on which you are going to build your life, so i need one which fits my current life "perfectly". Here are few ideas, what it must not contain: jointlocks, especially wristlocks (cause i'm an artist, and a masseur too,soo any damage to my wrist ends my carrier); punches and kicks. I want a 99% percent SOFT deffensive martial art,evading opponents attack and using its swing/momentum to counterattack, and i would like to get physical strenght. With further commenting i might be able to transfer the whole essence of the martial art im looking for.



Kendo. 

Honestly, it's the only thing I can think of that comes close to your criteria it's a weapon system, so there's no joint locks, there's no kicking or punching, while it's a sport (and therefore prefers aggression to be shown, after a fashion), the counters are dominantly evasive, as it's quicker. Being a sport, especially if you take to suburi training with much gusto, you can get some good physical strength development as well. Of course, it isn't "soft", nor overly defensive, but it's as close as you'll find.

Out of interest, where exactly are you? You've mentioned that you live "in a capitol" what country? State or national capitol? Your posting style indicates to me that you might not be a native speaker of English this might help us narrow down some other options for you.


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## donald1 (Apr 1, 2014)

At a school with a good teacher you can learn self defense,  but side note its not something you can just learn in a few classes practice can also be done at home in free time off,  also if you're planning on using joint locks and other methods of the sort its important to stretch first and be limber(even if your just doing basic stretches its better than nothing) 
Welcome to martial talk nice to meet you 
Best of luck with your chosen style


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## BruceLee23 (Apr 1, 2014)

Try this link to see which is best for you.  http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=watcher1


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## K-man (Apr 1, 2014)

BruceLee23 said:


> Try this link to see which is best for you.  http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=watcher1


Mmm! It reckons I'm ready for Tai Chi!
:hmm:


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

Excuse me for my inability to express myself clearly for everybody, we will have it soon i guess . A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks.


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## clfsean (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Excuse me for my inability to express myself clearly for everybody, we will have it soon i guess . A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks.



You can't exclude anything. If you're worried about your massage stuff & art based stuff, you need to look harder at the number of traditional physicians/artsians from China/Japan/Korea/Okinawa, etc... that are also martial artists, normally of a very high degree. Or in opposite order. 

If you don't like you wrist being cranked, that's one thing. But to totally discount an aspect of almost all martial arts... you can't do that & actually get a lot of responses.

Where are you located? That would help to give an idea of what's in your area.


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## Blindside (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Excuse me for my inability to express myself clearly for everybody, we will have it soon i guess . A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks.



Judo.

I have had to LMPs as students and they did just fine in Kali which has a fair amount of wrist control involved in it.  Their greater concern was being whacked with a stick in the hand, but they don't seem as concerned as you do about potential damage to their hands, they just wore decent hand protection when they did it.


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

clfsean said:


> You can't exclude anything. If you're worried about your massage stuff & art based stuff, you need to look harder at the number of traditional physicians/artsians from China/Japan/Korea/Okinawa, etc... that are also martial artists, normally of a very high degree. Or in opposite order.
> 
> If you don't like you wrist being cranked, that's one thing. But to totally discount an aspect of almost all martial arts... you can't do that & actually get a lot of responses.
> 
> Where are you located? That would help to give an idea of what's in your area.



I dont know how would it help, but i'm in budapest for 8 months. And yes i do not want to get my wrist cracked on every training and so, i have very thin and weak wrists btw, but can we get over this part, there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

Blindside said:


> Judo.
> 
> I have had to LMPs as students and they did just fine in Kali which has a fair amount of wrist control involved in it.  Their greater concern was being whacked with a stick in the hand, but they don't seem as concerned as you do about potential damage to their hands, they just wore decent hand protection when they did it.



thank you for your reply and time, seriously, but i do not like this concept of falling on the floor both of you.


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## donald1 (Apr 2, 2014)

actually it depends on what karate you do, the karate i am in you dont begin wrist pulls or grappling until you get a little higher in rank. and even then it is still supervised to make sure nothing goes wrong. i understand what you mean, it hurts to get thrown on the ground, it hurts to get your wrist pulled, to do arm and leg conditioning and other things like that. but two things about that though
- they probably wont start you off where its too hard
- as long as you train, stretch so you can be limber, use control it should be fine(its preferred to do this with the guidance of an instructor)

best of luck choosing a style


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## Gnarlie (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Excuse me for my inability to express myself clearly for everybody, we will have it soon i guess . A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks.



Pretty much any art dealing with the range and strategy you describe employs joint manipulation as part of its approach. That might be shoulder, elbow, wrist, knee or hip. You might have to weather the storm. However, any instructor of such an art will be capable of showing you techniques and principles without hurting you even semi permanently. Wrist locks are clearly not what you believe them to be. 

Gnarlie


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> thank you for your reply and time, seriously, but i do not like this concept of falling on the floor both of you.


So no punches no kicks no joint locks and no falling on floor.  Maybe a Dance class is better suited to your needs


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> , there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://


plenty of joint locks in some styles of Karate


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

ballen0351 said:


> So no punches no kicks no joint locks and no falling on floor.  Maybe a Dance class is better suited to your needs



Like I said before forget anything but the wristlocks/cracks. Please read what i wrote: _A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks._


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## Xue Sheng (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://



I don't think Fumio Demura would agree. I was at a short seminar of his and he did use a wrist lock and a throw.

Have you thought of Savate, it is mostly kicking, or American Boxing, it is all striking with the hands.

Just about every other style out there are some joint locks in it, it is just some have more than others


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

Gnarlie said:


> Pretty much any art dealing with the range and strategy you describe employs joint manipulation as part of its approach. That might be shoulder, elbow, wrist, knee or hip. You might have to weather the storm. However, any instructor of such an art will be capable of showing you techniques and principles without hurting you even semi permanently. Wrist locks are clearly not what you believe them to be.
> 
> Gnarlie




Looking at your answer i think you are the closest to understand what i want. and besides of the care of my wrist, i dont want to keep in touch with my opponent after the counter-strike, i dont want to hold his shoulders/arm/wrist/finger anything and chill near him.


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Like I said before forget anything but the wristlocks/cracks. Please read what i wrote: _A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks._


yep and it doesn't exist  we read it and we are telling you that your too narrow minded in what you want.  Judo or Aikido would be the closest to what you want but you don't like them so you cant always get what you want sometimes you get whats there


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## Gnarlie (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Looking at your answer i think you are the closest to understand what i want. and besides of the care of my wrist, i dont want to keep in touch with my opponent after the counter-strike, i dont want to hold his shoulders/arm/wrist/finger anything and chill near him.



Joint locks are often taught as restraint techniques, but that's not all that they are. More often they are used in a dynamic flow situation. Have a look at these elbow manipulations:

British Military Self Defence 1 to 1: http://youtu.be/2S9jHI7IVDo

Nobody gets hurt, everybody practices. 

Your preconceptions may not be correct. Try one session of something, then come back to us. 


Gnarlie


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

Gnarlie said:


> Joint locks are often taught as restraint techniques, but that's not all that they are. More often they are used in a dynamic flow situation. Have a look at these elbow manipulations:
> 
> British Military Self Defence 1 to 1: http://youtu.be/2S9jHI7IVDo
> 
> ...



My preconceptions are based on what my 3 aikidoka friends showed me with finger and wrist "manipulation" locks, and im watching youtube demonstrations/fight videos of every mentioned martial art so i can have view of its "strategy"... :-????. But take a look at this, another great example of what i seek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760JCpYJMVk, the 1st part of how to defend a kick(didnt watch it fully yet). These kind of counter-strikes, minimal contact, no seconds hold.


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## K-man (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> I dont know how would it help, but i'm in budapest for 8 months. And yes i do not want to get my wrist cracked on every training and so, i have very thin and weak wrists btw, but can we get over this part, there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://


We train joint locks all the time in karate and the ability to apply them is part of the grading requirement. 



J0c3r said:


> Looking at your answer i think you are the closest to understand what i want. and besides of the care of my wrist, i dont want to keep in touch with my opponent after the counter-strike, i dont want to hold his shoulders/arm/wrist/finger anything and chill near him.


Can I ask one question. Are you female?

What you are requesting is an art that will give you self defence skills. Self defence skills will involve escaping from grabs and holds and regaining your feet from the ground. Being attacked invades your personal space. You will have to be prepared for that in any martial art from which you hope to aquire SD skills.
:asian:


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> My preconceptions are based on what my 3 aikidoka friends showed me with finger and wrist "manipulation" locks, and im watching youtube demonstrations/fight videos of every mentioned martial art so i can have view of its "strategy"... :-????. But take a look at this, another great example of what i seek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760JCpYJMVk, the 1st part of how to defend a kick(didnt watch it fully yet). These kind of counter-strikes, minimal contact, no seconds hold.


Your video doesn't work for me.


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## Gnarlie (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> My preconceptions are based on what my 3 aikidoka friends showed me with finger and wrist "manipulation" locks, and im watching youtube demonstrations/fight videos of every mentioned martial art so i can have view of its "strategy"... :-????. But take a look at this, another great example of what i seek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760JCpYJMVk, the 1st part of how to defend a kick(didnt watch it fully yet). These kind of counter-strikes, minimal contact, no seconds hold.



Ok, short on time, but here are the main points:

1) Your Aikidoka friends are doing you a disservice if they are hurting you with wristlocks. Go to a class and find out what it's like to learn from the beginning. 

2) You can't for a realistic impression of any art from a video. Go to a class. Go to a several classes.

3) The video you have chosen is a demonstration. If those kicks had any emotional content the results would be very different. Also, without anything to end the threat, your opponent will be coming back. 

Gnarlie


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

try to copy the link manualy, clicking directly on it doesnt work dunno why ://


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## Blindside (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://



Hmm, I will have to tell Higoanna Sensei that the finger and wrist lock that he dropped me with doesn't actually exist in Karate, which will be useful because it took me about a 3 months to get the grass stains out of the white gi.

Quite frankly, you don't know what you don't know, and are artificially limiting your selections down to the point of non-existence.  Good luck with that.


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## J0c3r (Apr 2, 2014)

Blindside said:


> Hmm, I will have to tell Higoanna Sensei that the finger and wrist lock that he dropped me with doesn't actually exist in Karate, which will be useful because it took me about a 3 months to get the grass stains out of the white gi.
> 
> Quite frankly, you don't know what you don't know, and are artificially limiting your selections down to the point of non-existence.  Good luck with that.


My point was that not all martial arts are using all the techniques and they are well, so if i dont want to use wrist locks i dont have to, are you even trying to help or just flamign around?


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

Blindside said:


> Hmm, I will have to tell Higoanna Sensei that the finger and wrist lock that he dropped me with doesn't actually exist in Karate,.



Yes he dropped me with that finger lock once I screamed like a 12 yr old girl lol.  He laughed and walked away


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## ballen0351 (Apr 2, 2014)

So have you looked around your area?  What classes are available that fit your schedule and price range.  Also after8 months where are you moving and wwhat's available there?


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## Blindside (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> My point was that not all martial arts are using all the techniques and they are well, so if i dont want to use wrist locks i dont have to, are you even trying to help or just flamign around?



As a reasonably experienced instructor, having students that dictate to me what they are willing to learn is a pain in my ***, particularly when it comes from a self-proclaimed newbie.  Don't like it, great, don't learn it, but don't expect me to spend much time on training you vs. a student who is willing to learn the complete art.  I would understand if you actually had an injury that you are protecting, but you aren't, you are literally letting your fear drive what you think is a logical decision.  Much of martial arts is pushing personal boundaries and addressing those fears.


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## clfsean (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> I dont know how would it help, but i'm in budapest for 8 months. And yes i do not want to get my wrist cracked on every training and so, i have very thin and weak wrists btw, but can we get over this part, there are no joint locks in karate neither and it works soo, it doesnt have to contain anything. ://



If you believe there are no wrist locks or the like in karate (Japanese or Okinawan), you're sadly misinformed. 

So, to be blunt, you want magic, not martial arts. Unless you are willing to get out & work for it (which will take care of weak wrists, which if you're a masseuse of any skill I find that hard to buy into), that's all that will fit your requirements. I think the blinders you've put on yourself will do you far more harm than good in the next while for a search. Enjoy yourself, but don't expect much.


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## K-man (Apr 2, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> My point was that not all martial arts are using all the techniques and they are well, so if i dont want to use wrist locks i dont have to, are you even trying to help or just flamign around?


If you were part of my class and you didn't want to train to apply wrist locks, fine. Your partner will certainly want to train wrist locks so he/she will be practising on you.  

Every martial art will be teaching you *all* of their system. That will be locks, holds, takedowns, escapes, punches, kicks etc. Your clip above was Hapkido. As was pointed out by *Gnarlie*, it was a demonstration. Take a look at this video, particularly the last 5 minutes to get a better picture of Hapkido. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6_VifUTfY
:asian:


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## Brian King (Apr 2, 2014)

Welcome to MT.
Have you heard of Ed Parkers system? Paxtial arts. It is an interesting concept and I think that he has folks all over the world now teaching it, but, it is new and not very well known. Ed's history and his families history regarding martial arts is very interesting. His art sounds like exactly what you are looking for. Good luck in your search and your training. The you tube vid is long (12 minutes or so)

http://youtu.be/t0d5qZNfzfM

Regards
Brian King


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## drop bear (Apr 3, 2014)

clfsean said:


> If you believe there are no wrist locks or the like in karate (Japanese or Okinawan), you're sadly misinformed.
> 
> So, to be blunt, you want magic, not martial arts. Unless you are willing to get out & work for it (which will take care of weak wrists, which if you're a masseuse of any skill I find that hard to buy into), that's all that will fit your requirements. I think the blinders you've put on yourself will do you far more harm than good in the next while for a search. Enjoy yourself, but don't expect much.



Yep the yellow bamboo.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnvETs4F6Q


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## clfsean (Apr 3, 2014)

drop bear said:


> yep the yellow bamboo.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=whnvets4f6q



bwahahahaha


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## ballen0351 (Apr 3, 2014)

drop bear said:


> Yep the yellow bamboo.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnvETs4F6Q



lol hmmmmmm  I love the little kid "he touched him he touched him.  How can he touch him?"  classic


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 3, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> My preconceptions are based on what my 3 aikidoka friends showed me with finger and wrist "manipulation" locks, and im watching youtube demonstrations/fight videos of every mentioned martial art so i can have view of its "strategy"... :-????. But take a look at this, another great example of what i seek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=760JCpYJMVk, the 1st part of how to defend a kick(didnt watch it fully yet). These kind of counter-strikes, minimal contact, no seconds hold.



Your video includes lots of punching, kicking, and getting thrown to the ground - all of which you have said you don't want.  In addition the art being demoed (hapkido) includes lots of wristlocks, although they don't show up until later in this particular video.


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## Tony Dismukes (Apr 3, 2014)

People may be getting hung up on the wristlock thing.  You can certainly find arts without wristlocks.  What's hard is finding one without wristlocks or kicks or punches or hitting the ground.  Chris's suggestion of kendo is about the only thing that might meet your stated criteria.


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## WaterGal (Apr 3, 2014)

J0c3r said:


> Like I said before forget anything but the wristlocks/cracks. Please read what i wrote: _A martial art that revolves mostly around the oppoents attacks, close ranged COUNTER-attacks, as the opponent attack(kick,punch,stab,anything) crosses that personal defense line,when its close enough to grab/catch its arm/leg/any bodypart, and use his momentum to lose balance fall etc., forget anything besides the wristlocks._



I don't all the way understand what you're saying here, but I think you're saying that you've given up on the "no striking, no falling" criteria and are just looking for a style with no wrist locks?

For that, I would recommend a striking-only art, like Taekwondo or boxing. You'll learn how to counterattack and deal with close-range attacks by striking your opponent, and there won't be any joint locks.

But in a style where you learn to catch someone's arm and manipulate it so they fall, you're also going to have to the same thing done to you so your training partner can learn the techniques.  And a joint lock is one of the best ways to manipulate someone's body and make them fall, so the curriculum will probably include them.


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## cqbspartan (Oct 10, 2014)

For starters, you could do Tai Chi(really soft) but not really effective self defense...Aikido and Judo are purely defensive with throwing and no strikes per se...so with the limitations of your question, those are your options...but they are not the best for self defense, not even close


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## Blindside (Oct 10, 2014)

cqbspartan said:


> For starters, you could do Tai Chi(really soft) but not really effective self defense...Aikido and Judo are purely defensive with throwing and no strikes per se...so with the limitations of your question, those are your options...but they are not the best for self defense, not even close



Um, aikido might be classified as "purely defensive" but there is no way in hell judo could be called that.  Just because you don't punch someone doesn't mean hitting them with the planet neither "gentle" or necessarily defensive.


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## zzj (Oct 10, 2014)

cqbspartan said:


> For starters, you could do Tai Chi(really soft) but not really effective self defense.



Ouch....


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## Reedone816 (Oct 10, 2014)

cqbspartan said:


> For starters, you could do Tai Chi(really soft) but not really effective self defense...Aikido and Judo are purely defensive with throwing and no strikes per se...so with the limitations of your question, those are your options...but they are not the best for self defense, not even close




Ouch O_O
I guess I'm lucky to find master of yang taichi that can manhandle other striking martial artists twice his size.
Or an aikido bb who can makes fool many. And judo, a complete judoka is a monster, can you tell rousey or maia where they were not overwhelmingly attack their opponent in a fight?

But back to the counter art that training to manipulate anything that comes its way, arm, leg, body, head, etc. I suggest you try silat. But just be warned it is really hard to find the really good one that is away from the bs...
You can look to the threads in indochine sub forum, there really cool youtube vids posts by brian and dylan9


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## Shai Hulud (Nov 11, 2014)

Taichi? Aikido? 

I could also recommend Baguazhang or Xingyiquan here.


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