# Tang Soo Do Bong



## terrylamar (Aug 29, 2008)

Are there official staff forms in Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do?  I received my 3rd Dan from Jung Kil Kim who studied under GrandMaster Hwang Kee and received Dan # 123 in traditional Moo Duk Kwan.

We learned three staff forms.  I don't know if these are traditional TSD froms or something they made up if it even matters.

What I am looking for is to include a staff curriculum into my school.  I would be interested to hear from any TSD practicioners who use the staff and even learn your forms if you can write them down or better tape them.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 29, 2008)

At least within the US Soo Bahk Do Federation, there are none.  According to the federation, there aren't any official TSD/SBD bong forms.  Although, I know of several TSD organizations who do have bong forms.  For example, the International Tang Soo Do Federation as at least one, if not more.

If you want a very robust bong curriculum, I would probably recommend an organized Hapkido school to you.  They are a very good place to look for weapons in the KMA world.


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## JWLuiza (Aug 29, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> At least within the US Soo Bahk Do Federation, there are none.  According to the federation, there aren't any official TSD/SBD bong forms.  Although, I know of several TSD organizations who do have bong forms.  For example, the International Tang Soo Do Federation as at least one, if not more.
> 
> If you want a very robust bong curriculum, I would probably recommend an organized Hapkido school to you.  They are a very good place to look for weapons in the KMA world.



Yeah, USSBDMDK doesn't do Bong forms, but many organizations have added bong hyung. In fact, mine added strikes and hyung from Kobudo (Shu Shi No Kon Sho).


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## Yossarian (Aug 30, 2008)

The WTSDA has three bong forms  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56gG-vNUzwg&feature=related 



 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44AWSDKK9Do&NR=1  There are lots of others practiced by various different associations, you can see some on youtube.


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## terryl965 (Aug 30, 2008)

Who brought these forms in, may I ask.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Aug 30, 2008)

The ITSDF has several bong forms, but as to their origins, you got me. We just call them "bong hyung cho dan/e dan/sam dan/sa dan/o dan." KJN C.S. Kim trained under Hwang Kee, and we used to have "moo duk kwan" on the back of our doboks, but I've never asked, and I don't think I'm in a position to ask, about the origins of the bong hyung.

EDIT: Yossarian, our bong hyung 1-3 are almost exactly like the ones you posted. Biggest differences are that we have cut out all the bong twirling, and that our bong hyung cho dan has the two low blocks in hugul jase at the beginning, rather than at the end. I'd guess they have similar origins.

Peace,
JT


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## MBuzzy (Aug 30, 2008)

I could easily be wrong....but I was under the impression that GM Hwang Kee did not use any weapons in Tang Soo Do...


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## Yossarian (Aug 30, 2008)

> Who brought these forms in, may I ask.



It would be either Gm Shin or one of his students. They were definately created by someone from the WTSDA and dont seem to resemble any other types of staff form ive seen.


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## terryl965 (Aug 30, 2008)

I was curious because like Buzzy I was under the impression the GM Hwang Kee did not do weapons at all. So was just curious about who and why was they brought in.


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## Makalakumu (Aug 30, 2008)

MBuzzy said:


> I could easily be wrong....but I was under the impression that GM Hwang Kee did not use any weapons in Tang Soo Do...


 
This impression is correct.  SBD is meant as an empty handed art.  All weapons are brought in from the outside.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 30, 2008)

So it seems to me that if you want authentic Korean weapons forms, you should find where they originated.  I know that Hapkido has a large complement of weapons, but I don't know where those came from either.

Now, the forms that I have seen within TSD are very close to Hapkido, so I'm sure that there is a shared lineage and that the forms brought in were probably taken from a good source.


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## B.Redfield (Aug 30, 2008)

Traditional Hapkido, such as taught by the founder Choi Yong Sool, has no forms or weapons, they were added by various associations.


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## MBuzzy (Aug 30, 2008)

B.Redfield said:


> Traditional Hapkido, such as taught by the founder Choi Yong Sool, has no forms or weapons, they were added by various associations.


 
Sir,

That is very interesting!  I had no idea....So do we know where they came from and when they were added?  I only refer to Hapkido based on what seems to be the widespread usage of weapons within various hapkido associations.


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## Yossarian (Aug 31, 2008)

> EDIT: Yossarian, our bong hyung 1-3 are almost exactly like the ones you posted. Biggest differences are that we have cut out all the bong twirling, and that our bong hyung cho dan has the two low blocks in hugul jase at the beginning, rather than at the end. I'd guess they have similar origins.



Wow thats interesting, I allways thought those forms were unique to WTSDA. I will now have to do more reaserch into their origins. We perform them slightly differently than in those videos too.


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## JT_the_Ninja (Aug 31, 2008)

Yossarian: Yeah...search through my youtube site ( http://www.youtube.com/jttheninja ); several of my video compilations have bits of our bong hyung.


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## astrobiologist (Aug 31, 2008)

My first TSD instruction was under Chong Su Kim.  At his school they taught 3 bong hyung to all students and they had 1 bong hyung for their demo team.  It has been almost a decade since I trained with them, but I've seen some recent demonstrations and it looks like they're still doing the same stuff.

The United Tang Soo Do Alliance, many of whom used to be students under C.S. Kim, practise similar staff work to what Kim teaches.  They have changed a few things and, the last time I knew, they were in the process of adding a new staff form which looks less like the staff 'twirling' you will usually see with TSD and TKD schools. 

My Jujitsu instructor also teaches TKD.  I was talking to him once about the staff.  He said that he teaches bong sul and hyung that is practical, but I've never yet actually seen what he teaches.

At our school, we teach Tang Soo Do as an empty hand system.  We are bringing Okinawan Kobujutsu (staff, sai, tonfa, cane, nunchaku, etc.) into our school.  The Okinawan approach to the staff is far more practical than anything that I've ever been taught before in other TSD schools.


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