# Length of average street fight and training



## lonecoyote (Jul 16, 2005)

How long would you say the average street fight takes? Thirty seconds or less? Longer?  With this in mind, how many do thirty second or minute all out drills, using a heavy bag, or sparring? Do you think that they are a good idea?  The best  way to become an effective sprinter is to train your sprinting, not go for long slow walks, so if street self defense is about short bursts of intense activity isn't that how we should train?


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 16, 2005)

One of my jump rope drills is to do a minute and a half as fast as I can.  I also work my heavy bag sometimes with a fast flurry of punches and kicks.  Pretty much for the reason you mention, to be sure I can do an strong anaerobic exertion for a spurt


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## BlackCatBonz (Jul 16, 2005)

while you can increase your ability to work aerobically, to put your body in an anaerobic state like that of a fight takes stress, not just physical stress, but mental, that will cause an adrenaline dump.


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## FearlessFreep (Jul 16, 2005)

I think you're talking about two seperate things.  I mean, sprinters work anaerobically as well.   There's the physical conditioning side of being able to move without bringing in more oxygen, and the stress side of dealing with the adreneline surge  For the first part, I believe you can do physical training to better your anaerobic capability


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## MA-Caver (Jul 16, 2005)

Of all the street fights I've seen and been in; off the top of my head I'd say they lasted no more than 2-3 minutes and going as long as 5-7 minutes... though they seem longer... especially if you're the participants. Most of them are general posturing, feints, circling, intimidation tactics and "C'mon sucker...make your move" , blowing hot air kind of stuff before the first punch is actually thrown. Watching the (street) fights that are available on the net can give you an idea of this.
Still a martial artist should train for endurance fighting that has maximum energy output over 15-25 minutes. If a fight is lasting longer than that then one of you isn't throwing their punches hard enough or accurately enough.
In every fight that I've been in my goal was to end it as quickly as possible.  My longest fight was in high-school lasting more than five minutes after the first punch was thrown. Both of us were exhausted, bleeding and hurting and no clear winner. I won the yelling part of that contest though... and the cussing part too.  It ended basically with "yeah, I kicked your ****" "No I kicked *your* ****" and so forth. 
I was watching Rocky II the other night and something that the trainer, Mickey, said to Rocky: "...for a 45 minute fight a guy has to train for 45,000 minutes. 45,000! That's ten months!...." So following that logic a five minute fight should be trained for 5,000 minutes eh? Go figure.
Ultimately, imo, you should train WELL enough to end the fight in the first ten-15 seconds (of actual blows).


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## arnisador (Jul 16, 2005)

Average? Probably very short. But, they can easily go for several minutes. I definitely try to prepare for longer ones. The JKD school I study at has drills that are good for this.


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## Grenadier (Jul 16, 2005)

MACaver said:
			
		

> It ended basically with "yeah, I kicked your ****" "No I kicked *your* ****" and so forth.


Well stated!  Of course, the non-physical part of the fight continues on for years and years, with each side telling their stories of the "victory." 

The "average" street fight (tailgater fight, bar room brawl, etc) seems to be over in a short time, as there are usually associates of the combatants on both sides of the fight.  Usually, the two combatants will, as MACaver stated, circle around each other, throwing a few feints, probing out the opponent, until one recklessly charges into the other.  Sometimes one gets the upper hand, and after that happens, gets pulled off the other guy by one or the other's buddies.  

If someone lands a lucky shot, then it's over in a hurry.  My graduate school roommate, who was from Scotland, levelled some fraterity boy with a wild haymaker of a punch, at a tailgater, knocking down the guy, until the other fraterity brothers gathered around their fallen brother, essentially stopping the fight from continuing.


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## searcher (Jul 16, 2005)

I personally have only seen a very few that have gone over thirty seconds.   What we have to remember is that most street fighters hold their breath when they fight.   That mixed with mental stress, adrenal-surge and other external factors make their ability to last become very short.   Increasing your physical ability and dealing with adrenal-stress are two entirely different things.   There is a good article on how to deal with the stress side of a fight on www.uechi-ryu.com under the articles section.    It is written by a former cop and is called "Fear as your ally."


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## Laborn (Jul 16, 2005)

lol going for more then 4 minutes is no problem for me, sometimes at my school we will spar 6 minutes, with only a  30 second break, of course, alot of the fight, is faking, but we still throw alot of blows


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 16, 2005)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> How long would you say the average street fight takes? Thirty seconds or less? Longer? With this in mind, how many do thirty second or minute all out drills, using a heavy bag, or sparring? Do you think that they are a good idea? The best way to become an effective sprinter is to train your sprinting, not go for long slow walks, so if street self defense is about short bursts of intense activity isn't that how we should train?


  The average is 30 seconds (though they seem like 20 minutes).  I've rarely seen one go more than 2 minutes.  In fact, at maximum output, with maximum adrenaline, 2 minutes is an eternity and usually those fighting are pretty pooped at that point.


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## arnisador (Jul 16, 2005)

sgtmac_46 said:
			
		

> The average is 30 seconds (though they seem like 20 minutes).


 Yup. And training may not mimic the effects of adrenaline, of the energy expended in blows that fail to land, of the pain and fear...so training to go for 5 minutes in the school may not be the same!


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## Ceicei (Jul 17, 2005)

searcher said:
			
		

> There is a good article on how to deal with the stress side of a fight on www.uechi-ryu.com under the articles section.    It is written by a former cop and is called "Fear as your ally."


Wasn't there a book written with the same title?

  - Ceicei


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## Adept (Jul 17, 2005)

You might be thinking of 'The Gift of Fear' by Gavin DeBecker.


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 17, 2005)

arnisador said:
			
		

> Yup. And training may not mimic the effects of adrenaline, of the energy expended in blows that fail to land, of the pain and fear...so training to go for 5 minutes in the school may not be the same!


 The effect of adrenaline should never be underestimated. Adrenaline is an interesting drug. It alters perception of time, it kills pain, it causes the heart to race, it reduces reaction time.....and it completely burns you out in short order if you're not careful.   

It's definitely a high-octane fuel.  It's a lot like running Nitrous-oxide. If you're not used to dealing with high doses of adrenaline, it can leave you too paralyzed to react. Adrenaline can be your best friend, or your worst enemy, depending on how you prepare for it and deal with it. 

I can remember being a teenager, about to face an after-school confrontation, how the adrenaline dump would over-load my body. My limbs felt heavy, it felt hard to walk. My heart pounded in my chest, and my brain literally buzzed. Ultimately, it was fear of this bodily reaction that filled me more than fear of my opponent.  The first time you truly deal with an all out adrenaline charge can be terrifying in and of itself.  I think everyone has been there. I feared the adrenaline dump most of all.

Now, i've learned to view adrenaline as a useful tool. When pointed in the right direction, adrenaline can help you do more than you could possibly do without it. Part of the trick is to control breathing, so as to not allow adrenaline to overwhelm you.  It's important to view adrenaline and the rest of the fight or flight response for what it is...a survival adaptation.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2005)

lonecoyote said:
			
		

> How long would you say the average street fight takes? Thirty seconds or less? Longer?  With this in mind, how many do thirty second or minute all out drills, using a heavy bag, or sparring? Do you think that they are a good idea?  The best  way to become an effective sprinter is to train your sprinting, not go for long slow walks, so if street self defense is about short bursts of intense activity isn't that how we should train?



To put an exact time on it would be hard.  I think that the best way to prepare would be to make sure that you're incorporating cardio into all of your workouts.  I would think that adding in some scenario training would aid with this as well.

Mike


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## MisterMike (Jul 17, 2005)

Whilst I can see the benefits of building your stamina, some of this sounds like the premis is based on staying face to face with the opponent and trading blows for up to 2 minutes.

Endurance may be good for dealing with multiple attackers, which by default would cover one attacker. I think the ultimate aim should be to end it as quickly as possible, rather than train for "boxing match"-like events.

This isn't to discredit the endurance or aerobic training, I incorporate that as well, but sometimes it may lead the student to think "sparring" is how it is expected to look on the street.


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## MJS (Jul 17, 2005)

MisterMike said:
			
		

> Whilst I can see the benefits of building your stamina, some of this sounds like the premis is based on staying face to face with the opponent and trading blows for up to 2 minutes.
> 
> Endurance may be good for dealing with multiple attackers, which by default would cover one attacker. I think the ultimate aim should be to end it as quickly as possible, rather than train for "boxing match"-like events.
> 
> This isn't to discredit the endurance or aerobic training, I incorporate that as well, but sometimes it may lead the student to think "sparring" is how it is expected to look on the street.



I won't speak for anyone elses post, but as far as what I was referring to was the fact that nobody can predict how long this fight is going to last.  Yes, by all means, end it as quick as possible.  After all, like you said, we're not engaging in a boxing match, but a match that can mean you going home or to the hospital or worse.  So, considering the fact we don't know how long it'll take, I'd rather be prepared for the long haul.

Just my .02.

Mike


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## Troy Ostapiw/Canada (Jul 17, 2005)

*I do all out drills working a combination of striking, sprawling, grappling and mass attacks 3-4 minute rounds.  I believe that the average person can only fight full out for approximately 15-20 second, then the ATP in the muscles is reduced, bringing a persons strength down to aprox. 50% of their maximum.  Lactic acid then begins to set in, after 30-40 second a person will become even weaker, their over all out put becomes approximately 35%, and continues to lower.   The heart rate is up and the lungs begin to burn.  Therefore conditioning is a very important component of martial arts.  If you are well conditioned you can maintain the fight, and outlast even a larger opponent.*

*Anaerobic conditioning is great a great way to train your fighting skills.  *



*I believe the philosophy of most martial artists is to finish the fight quickly, no more than 2-3 moves would be ideal, but the reality is this does not always happen, Murphys law states, if something can go wrong it probably will.  It is important to be adaptive, well conditioned and able to fight in all possible ranges i.e.) Striking, trapping, grappling, (standing and on the ground) as well as weapons ranges knife, stick or baseball bat range.   I have seen fights end very quickly, and some that have went on for more that 3 minutes. (You can do a lot of damage in 3 minutes)  Usually the fight seems to go on longer if both individuals have little training.  Martial arts training does not guarantee one will win the fight, but it does stack the odds in your favour.   In turn this should allow a skilled player to finish the fight more quickly.  Full out sparring, bag work and level changes with grappling as a last resort, are a great way to develop a well-conditioned body for self-defence.  Prepare for the worst, chance favours the prepared mind & body in combat*


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## sgtmac_46 (Jul 17, 2005)

MJS said:
			
		

> I won't speak for anyone elses post, but as far as what I was referring to was the fact that nobody can predict how long this fight is going to last. Yes, by all means, end it as quick as possible. After all, like you said, we're not engaging in a boxing match, but a match that can mean you going home or to the hospital or worse. So, considering the fact we don't know how long it'll take, I'd rather be prepared for the long haul.
> 
> Just my .02.
> 
> Mike


 Exactly.  Unlike in the ring, where you know a little bit about your opponent, and have trained for him for a couple months or more, on the street you will likely know absolutely nothing about his skill or conditioning.  

Furthermore, in the ring guys tap, the bell rings, the ref stops the fight, etc.  On the street, the other guys adrenaline is going to be pumping to.  That means that the idea of pacing yourself is entirely different.  You can't plan for a break, as he may not be inclined to stop the fight at nice, round, 2 or 3 minute intervals.  

Assuming you can't knock the other guy out or take him out quickly, you're looking at an all out exertion, until the first person wears out.  If you're that first person, you have a problem.


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## searcher (Jul 18, 2005)

Laborn said:
			
		

> lol going for more then 4 minutes is no problem for me, sometimes at my school we will spar 6 minutes, with only a 30 second break, of course, alot of the fight, is faking, but we still throw alot of blows


 
We are not talking about sparing in class.   Most of my students and most of each of my instructors' students can spar all night(like energizer bunnies).   We are talking about "street fighting."    It would be very arrogant to say that any of us would last for a certain ammount of time.   With all of the factors that deterine how long a fight will last it is very hard to predict.


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Expect the worse case scenario your mind can come up with and train to prepare for it.  Then when anything comes up less than what you're prepared for it doesn't become as big of a deal.  It's the old "set a goal higher than the objective" principle.


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## MA-Caver (Aug 5, 2005)

Kenpojujitsu3 said:
			
		

> Expect the worse case scenario your mind can come up with and train to prepare for it.  Then when anything comes up less than what you're prepared for it doesn't become as big of a deal.  It's the old "set a goal higher than the objective" principle.


I can see the value in that principle but isn't that raising expectations to the point of failure? With the fights I've been in my goal has always been to end it as quickly as possible and be done with it all (and hopefully walk away) with as minimal hurt to both parties as possible. 
I personally choose the path of acceptance rather expectations to minimize my own personal (internal) hurt. I don't like hurting people but realize, like many others, that it's sometimes necessary to prevent further hurt. If I have to break an arm or a leg to stop my attacker from causing me (or my companion) from harm then so be it. Mostly I'll be looking to knock the wind out of them long enough to get away or at least a incapacitating :btg:  
A fight as as much mental (and emotional) as it is physical. It always has an aftermath that ranges widely from one degree to another. When a person sets a goal and doesn't achieve it they will feel a sense of loss or emptiness because internally their expectations weren't met. To me that's what goals are; a level of expectations to achieve an objective. 
Setting an objective with the minimal amount of expectations and the highest degree of acceptance seems to be the way to go IMHO.  :idunno: Mebbe I'm just rambling here.


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## still learning (Aug 6, 2005)

Hello,  I would like to share some thoughts on this, after reading a lot of books by Marc 'the animal Macyoung and others.

 Most of the experts say only seconds because the person who throws the first blows will continune hitting the other person who was not expecting a abarge of blast. The adrenline will kick and in and you will be exhaust very fast, natural way of giving us a fight or flee response.

 It seems most fight are very short. High School kids up to College kids than to fight more boxing style because of the way they see peope fight. There fights will last a little longer because of the exchange of punches only.

 Street fighter/Bullies know how to destroy you and these fights will last for seconds. From chairs to bottles,kicks,head butts, and all the other stuffs for NO Rules with anything goes....More combat style for survival.

 Everyfight will be different and no such thing as a fair fight! It seems the key is to end the fight as quickly as possible and make sure the other person cannot fight back when it is over? No one wants to go to Jail so know you laws and when to run away.

 Learn to avoid, descalate and leave....watch your EGO and don't let it make you do dump things like trying to be tough back!  We only have one life and you may want to grow older?


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