# small circle



## jbt33 (Oct 31, 2006)

Is anyone familiar with small circle jujitsu, there is a school near me and I am considering it among aikido and wing chun.

I am small so looking for something where being big isnt a must.

I have been told by a wing chun instructor that locks and such will not work under pressure because they are not gross motor skills, and also are worthless if you are smaller and weaker, anyone?


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 31, 2006)

Small Circle JuJitsu is a wonderful style.  If you decide on it, be prepared for some really good training and lots of pain (in a good way of course)!

Personally, I've used lots of joint locks under  pressure against non complaint people, some of whom were stronger than me.  A lot of that depends upon the focus of your training and how comfortable you are with it.

Good luck choosing,

Jeff


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## Andrew Green (Oct 31, 2006)

In a fight, size is always an issue, no matter what style you do.  Anyone that says otherwise is either lieing or doesn't know any better.

Would be nice if it wasn't the truth, but it is.  Size, strength and general athleticism are very important in determining the outcome.  They can be overcome, it's just not easy.

And don't believe what one styles instructor says about the others style.  The wing chun guy will say locks are less functional, the JJ guy will say striking it less effective.  

Is self-defence a priority?  Meaning are you in a job / situation where you are likely to have to defend yourself?  Most people aren't, and should just go with what they have more fun in.  If you are, you need to consider that situation, what a bouncer or LEO needs is different from what someone living in a area with a high rate of violence.  Then the other things, are weapons a issue?


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## SFC JeffJ (Oct 31, 2006)

Great points Andrew!


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## arnisador (Oct 31, 2006)

Wing Chun and SCJJ are definitely effective. Of course strength matter at some level, but SCJJ can be applied by a smaller person and WC is good for a smaller person too. Aikido is an excellent system but it takes rather longer to develop practical self-defense skills in it.

The comment about gross motor skills is well taken, but thse are not intricate locks. A bigger is holding a moving, sweating, resisting person's arm! But as mentioned, arguments can be madde against striking too.

If self-defense is the goal, WC _and _SCJJ is a great combination. Otherwise, both are good choices. Again, Aikido is goo if you can invest the eyars into it.


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

When properly trained, the size of your opponent is only really a factor if they are tremendously large.  If you are say the size of a typical Japanese and come against someone say 6'2" at 225 pounds.  The size here is not a factor, good training will over come it.  Take on a sumo wrestler, Shaq or Mr. Universe, then you have a problem even with your training.  But I stress, PROPER training will overcome size in most instances.  That includes having a good teacher and practicing regularly, developing good timing.

Wing Chun was passed down by a women and is a good style for smaller people.

Aikido also is excellent for smaller people.  I have been told that if you can lift 20 lbs you can throw a 200 lb person.  I tend to believe that.

As far as Aikido being impractical:  One of my teachers was a Deputy Sheriff.  He said in class one time that anyone who things Aikido doesn't work never saw the surpised look on a suspects face after they hit the ground.  One thing you did not say was what style of Aikido.  There are differences and some styles I would not reccomend for self defense training.

Small Circle is also a fatastic art.  Wally Jay, the founder, was a student of Henry Okazaki the founder of Danzan Ryu.  Much of the DZR syllabus is contained in SCJ.  I never directly trained in SCJ but I have to believe it is as effective as DZR - which is highly effective.  One of the DZR teachers that I trained with is a women wh oprobably weighed right around 100 lbs.  I wouldn't want to tangle with her.

This is a case where I have to say go check out all 3 schools and go with the one you like best.


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## jbt33 (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your posts, yea I think I am going to try each class out.

I like the fact of using the other persons force against them and I am trying to avoid the toe to toe power type of arts like mma, muay thai, shotokan karate, san shou,because I dont really want to learn how to go at it and fight, merely protect myself if need be, which most likely would be close quarter in my face, maybe a hold, push or grab...not really a face off, then it is fighting and if you watch schools of different arts fight/spar it always looks the same...like kickboxing/mma because in real life on the streets 2 people fighting is usually fast, chaotic and consists of punching, kicking, grabbing, wrestling, etc.

I am looking for something that if someone walks up to me with a knife and goes to slash me, I can take care of myself, different mindset than fighting completely, nothing wrong with mma type of skills but not for me, I dont want to train to be a fighter but able to defend myself.

I also want to learn something that I can age with versus something hardcore like muay thai.

I have other reasons too...fun,health, confidence, friends,etc.

I think I am leaning towards small circle, also I just found another school which teaches tenshin ryu goshin jujisu and something called bando.


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## KOROHO (Oct 31, 2006)

I never heard of Tenshin Ryu Goshin Jujitsu
Check it out and compare it to what you see at the Small Circle school.

Based on what you said you are looking for, Bando is not the way to go.
It's a hard, strking style - a lot like kickboxing.


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## Stan (Oct 31, 2006)

I train in Aikido, and I've been exposed to some Small Circle techniques and principles, but never their training methodology and curriculum.  I this thread there were several contrasts made between Small Circle as a style that will quickly be practical, and Aikido as one that takes years to be practical.  

I know that both arts have locking and throwing as the main core of their technique catalogue.  And that both arts focus on avoiding "fighting" and meeting force with force.  What is different about Small Circle that makes it more practical more quickly?


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## matt.m (Oct 31, 2006)

Look, I have trained in Judo, Hapkido, and Tae Kwon Do.  The thing is this....If you don't practice blocking, or striking a ton of times then those techniques are ineffective.   Not only that, but if you don't train locks, throwing and submission techniques then they are and will be ineffective.

Just my .02


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## stickarts (Oct 31, 2006)

I like small circle and have added the basics of it into what i teach at my school. I have cases of students that have actually used it but like anything else it has to be used the right way in the right situation.
My best advice to you is to try it for yourself and draw your own conclusions!


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## KOROHO (Nov 2, 2006)

I personally do not believe that Small Circle is any easier to learn than Aikido or will take less time to become proficient than Aikido.  I think the difference is that in your typical Aikido school it takes longer to get Shodan than in SCJJ.
There is a difference between earning rank and being proficient.

That does not mean I am saying the SCJJ has lower standards, they just have a different philosophy and a different idea at what makes a Shodan. From what I saw, it takes about 3 years to get Shodan in SCJJ and about 5 in Aikido.  But also in my experience, those 3rd kyu Aikido students with 3 years of training are pretty much in line with thier SCJJ counterparts.  In Aikido y also learn Bokken, Jo and Tanto which is not included in SCJJ which will add some time to attaining Shodan.

Both will take a novice a couple of years atleast to become proficient.  But that will depend a lot on the individual and how often they go to class and practice.

SCJJ is much less traditional than Aikido.  So you may wnat to take that into consideration too when you make your decision.


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## still learning (Nov 4, 2006)

Andrew Green said:


> In a fight, size is always an issue, no matter what style you do. Anyone that says otherwise is either lieing or doesn't know any better.
> 
> Would be nice if it wasn't the truth, but it is. Size, strength and general athleticism are very important in determining the outcome. They can be overcome, it's just not easy.
> 
> ...


 
Hello, The general statement you made "size matters"  it very true....But how many times we have seen the smaller guys win too!

If you believe this all the time...then you will give up easy.  No matter how big or strong or powerful...a poke/rake to both there eyes or a strike to the adam's apple will give us some chance to escape. (other things too).

I have seen girls kick bigger guys in the shin and run away...WE ALL TRAIN TO FIGHT BIGGER PEOPLE...because most likely bigger people THINK they have fight in there pocket.....

Ever play ball?  that's a good place to hit!  looking for the home run? ....train and practice like for real.....Aloha


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