# Why BJJ will get you beaten or killed in self defense



## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense. 
*
Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat. 

The lack of training to deal with realistic strikes or kicks is going to set you up to get beaten. BJJ practitioners who got attacked on the streets were repeatedly punched in the head. Some got beat up. That's not self-defense. More like self-expense. 

The rules in BJJ restrict what you can do as far as striking and kicking among other things except grappling. This video demonstrates how real ground-fighting looks like in the streets. 






*No weapons* - Second problem with BJJ is lack of weapons training. If you're not training to deal with weapons like knives or guns, you're setting yourself up to get seriously hurt or killed. Most BJJ practitioners who get attacked are shot, stabbed, or beaten to death with weapons. When you grapple, you briefly expose your body to get attacked with strikes. I even tested it out in sparring. Put my opponent in a rear-naked choke and he hit me in the face with a pretend melee weapon. 

Worse, you got these BJJ guys teaching static and flashy unrealistic techniques. They only work when your opponent is complying. They look something like this. 






This is the reality. 






*Ground-fighting is terrible for self defense* - Last problem with BJJ is ground-fighting. It's perhaps the worst things for self defense. Are you really going to try to put me in a submission while i'm trying to beat you up and shoot or stab you on the ground? Are you going to be hugging and kissing me by then? Taking it to the ground is bad because you can't move well, your vision is limited, your body is exposed, list goes on.






Let's not forget multiple attackers and the environment. It's for those reasons that BJJ will get you beaten or killed on the streets. It's suitable mainly for sport or maybe if you're a bouncer or cop trying to subdue a criminal.


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## Headhunter (Jul 25, 2018)

Oh god here we go.....tell me have you ever trained bjj or are you just making up stuff you've read on YouTube like most of your so called facts


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Oh god here we go.....tell me have you ever trained bjj or are you just making up stuff you've read on YouTube like most of your so called facts



I use some BJJ techniques, but they are mostly stand up grappling and i modified them to make them work. Other than that, i don't really use the rest of BJJ.


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## Headhunter (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I use some BJJ techniques, but they are mostly stand up grappling and i modified them to make them work. Other than that, i don't really use the rest of BJJ.


So  that's a no then


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## Headhunter (Jul 25, 2018)

Wow "hugging and kissing" that truly shows how ignorant you are. I'd expect that out of a 12 year old With no training not a grown man who trains martial arts.....


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I use some BJJ techniques, but they are mostly stand up grappling and i modified them to make them work. Other than that, i don't really use the rest of BJJ.


He didnt ask if you use it, he asked if you've trained it. what is your experience? not years...have you learned from youtube videos/online defense courses, have you participated in job related SD courses (LEO.bodyguard/healthcare), have you trained in a dojo, did you compete in a martial art? You've been asked these multiple times and have not actually answered them once.


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## Headhunter (Jul 25, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> He didnt ask if you use it, he asked if you've trained it. what is your experience? not years...have you learned from youtube videos/online defense courses, have you participated in job related SD courses (LEO.bodyguard/healthcare), have you trained in a dojo, did you compete in a martial art? You've been asked these multiple times and have not actually answered them once.


Then there's the answer. In my opinion if someone can't answer a basic question like that then it's obvious if they're telling the truth or not


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 25, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Then there's the answer. In my opinion if someone can't answer a basic question like that then it's obvious if they're telling the truth or not


Yup. But doesn't mean I'll stop asking it.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> He didnt ask if you use it, he asked if you've trained it. what is your experience? not years...have you learned from youtube videos/online defense courses, have you participated in job related SD courses (LEO.bodyguard/healthcare), have you trained in a dojo, did you compete in a martial art? You've been asked these multiple times and have not actually answered them once.



No i don't see how that's relevant to what i said. It changes nothing.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> No i don't see how that's relevant to what i said. It changes nothing.


So now you're at least actively stating you will not tell anyone what your experience is? Just want to make sure I understand that right.


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## hoshin1600 (Jul 25, 2018)

Maybe someone should call the United States military and tell them they are doing it all wrong.


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## Martial D (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...


If this isn't satire, it should be.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 25, 2018)

So...you’ve never trained BJJ, have you...?

C’mon, the cat’s outta the bag, go ahead and admit it.  Time for an intervention...


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## pdg (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> BJJ will get you beaten or killed on the streets. It's suitable mainly for sport or maybe if you're a bouncer or cop trying to subdue a criminal.



What if I'm a civilian trying to subdue a criminal who has just tried to assault me?

Is the police uniform or one of those black suits bouncers wear some sort of anti-death super shield that means grappling is good for them and not me?

Or maybe it's because you think that anyone who isn't a cop or a bouncer should be trying to kill, not subdue.

You have prison fantasies don't you?


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## Flying Crane (Jul 25, 2018)

pdg said:


> What if I'm a civilian trying to subdue a criminal who has just tried to assault me?
> 
> Is the police uniform or one of those black suits bouncers wear some sort of anti-death super shield that means grappling is good for them and not me?
> 
> ...


The time for reason is long past.

It is now time for ridicule.


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 25, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> So...you’ve never trained BJJ, have you...?
> 
> C’mon, the cat’s outta the bag, go ahead and admit it.  Time for an intervention...


I took a look at his YouTube channel. Most of it seems to be just talking about how this art or that art will get you killed. Not much showing him actually doing anything. From the little bit I have found of him moving, I can just about guarantee he has no BJJ training.


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## JR 137 (Jul 25, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I took a look at his YouTube channel. Most of it seems to be just talking about how this art or that art will get you killed. Not much showing him actually doing anything. From the little bit I have found of him moving, I can just about guarantee he has no BJJ training.


There’s a shocker.

Sorry, Tony.  You’re one of my favorite guys here.  I just had to.


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## Jaeimseu (Jul 25, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I took a look at his YouTube channel. Most of it seems to be just talking about how this art or that art will get you killed. Not much showing him actually doing anything. From the little bit I have found of him moving, I can just about guarantee he has no BJJ training.



He’s right then. Attempting to use BJJ will set him up to get beaten. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.


Even if you may not like the ground technique, you still need to learn how to get back up on your feet.


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## Buka (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...



This is one of my favorite things written in a long while.

_When you grapple, you briefly expose your body to get attacked with strikes. I even tested it out in sparring. Put my opponent in a rear-naked choke and he hit me in the face with a pretend melee weapon. _

A pretend melee weapon. That is so damn adorable I want to give you a hug. 

But, alas, it is my duty to inform you you are heretofore banished from the Island of Maui. Should you come to Maui you will be turned away at the airport.


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## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Put my opponent in a rear-naked choke and he hit me in the face with a pretend melee weapon.


I just don't know how that's possible.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 25, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I just don't know how that's possible.


By not knowing how to do a RNC.


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## now disabled (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...




Ok I have seen the light 

Sir You can have your opinions and that is your right but jeez you instill that kinda thing into your students and someone gonna get handed their behind in a sling... sorry to be blunt but listen to the guys on here they do know what they talking about


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I just don't know how that's possible.



The problem with this video is the opponent didn't have a weapon...


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## now disabled (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> The problem with this video is the opponent didn't have a weapon...



You are gonna get some one hurt you really need to start listening to the guys who do know 

Didn't have a weapon ...........

Ok I gonna say this now if any of your students read these threads and if anyone of here takes you up on your free lesson offer your business is gonna go down the toilet fast as they will pick you apart ...fast 

Jeez I am no expert on BJJ or JkD at all but from my background the phrase going through you like a hot knife in butter comes to mind 

You really ain't doing your credibility or your business any good with this !!!


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

now disabled said:


> You are gonna get some one hurt you really need to start listening to the guys who do know
> 
> Didn't have a weapon ...........
> 
> ...



Laughing my taill off at these comments lol.


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## now disabled (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Laughing my taill off at these comments lol.



Your gonna get someone hurt


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## CB Jones (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...



Kudos to bringing this to the fore front.

Haven’t got a chance to watch the video but I hope you point out that most if not all bjj techniques can be defeated by simply eye gouging, biting, or testicle grabbing.....or even better.... testicle biting.

Keep up the good fight.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Kudos to bringing this to the fore front.
> 
> Haven’t got a chance to watch the video but I hope you point out that most if not all bjj techniques can be defeated by simply eye gouging, biting, or testicle grabbing.....or even better.... testicle biting.
> 
> Keep up the good fight.



Yea, this MMA fighter boasted he could apply an armbar even if his opponent bit his leg. One of my buds said "ok, let's try it.." MMA fighter applied the armbar and the guy gently bit his leg. MMA fighter jolted and let go instantly, allowing him to escape. Goes to show BJJ isn't made for self defense like most people seem to think.


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## now disabled (Jul 25, 2018)

I'm kinda at a loss 

how did your bud bite his leg if he was in an arm bar


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 25, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Kudos to bringing this to the fore front.
> 
> Haven’t got a chance to watch the video but I hope you point out that most if not all bjj techniques can be defeated by simply eye gouging, biting, or testicle grabbing.....or even better.... testicle biting.
> 
> Keep up the good fight.



Yea, this MMA fighter boasted he could apply an armbar even if his opponent bit his leg. One of my buds said "ok, let's try it.." MMA fighter applied the armbar and the guy gently bit his leg. MMA fighter jolted and let go instantly, allowing him to escape. Goes to show BJJ isn't made for self defense like most people seem to think.


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## Flying Crane (Jul 25, 2018)

Buka said:


> This is one of my favorite things written in a long while.
> 
> _When you grapple, you briefly expose your body to get attacked with strikes. I even tested it out in sparring. Put my opponent in a rear-naked choke and he hit me in the face with a pretend melee weapon. _
> 
> ...


I only wish he had said “bonked”.


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## drop bear (Jul 25, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> So  that's a no then



Well why would you if it is going to get you beaten or killed?


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## drop bear (Jul 25, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> The problem with this video is the opponent didn't have a weapon...



It was a pretend weapon.


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## drop bear (Jul 25, 2018)

now disabled said:


> I'm kinda at a loss
> 
> how did your bud bite his leg if he was in an arm bar



Double leg over arm bar. You can get the back of the leg.

And the only thing they can do to make you let go is break your arm.

But once your arm is broken you can use that to escape and you still have that bite


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## Headhunter (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Kudos to bringing this to the fore front.
> 
> Haven’t got a chance to watch the video but I hope you point out that most if not all bjj techniques can be defeated by simply eye gouging, biting, or testicle grabbing.....or even better.... testicle biting.
> 
> Keep up the good fight.


Another one who's never trained it in his life


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## Headhunter (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Laughing my taill off at these comments lol.


Now you know how we feel


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Double leg over arm bar. You can get the back of the leg.
> 
> And the only thing they can do to make you let go is break your arm.
> 
> But once your arm is broken you can use that to escape and you still have that bite




Thanks lol


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Double leg over arm bar. You can get the back of the leg.
> 
> And the only thing they can do to make you let go is break your arm.
> 
> But once your arm is broken you can use that to escape and you still have that bite




so basically is he saying that bjj is no good cause he teaches biting ?


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## Jacky Zuki (Jul 26, 2018)

Obvious jest-fodder aside, I'm interested in the line that BJJ has no striking in it. I did Atemi Jujutsu for a while before I took up Karate and really enjoyed it as a fairly all-round self-defence system. I clearly remember punches and low kicks being trained as one of the basics. It wasn't extensive but it was practical and not just dismissed as being out-of-style. It was also expected that you would test all your performance of the techniques against the inability of escape, the degree of control over your opponent and covering any possible retaliation such as punches or biting. I find it hard to believe that all this is absent from BJJ given its reputation, longevity and success in the ring. Can someone who trains in BJJ set my mind at rest please?


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## frank raud (Jul 26, 2018)

Jacky Zuki said:


> Obvious jest-fodder aside, I'm interested in the line that BJJ has no striking in it. I did Atemi Jujutsu for a while before I took up Karate and really enjoyed it as a fairly all-round self-defence system. I clearly remember punches and low kicks being trained as one of the basics. It wasn't extensive but it was practical and not just dismissed as being out-of-style. It was also expected that you would test all your performance of the techniques against the inability of escape, the degree of control over your opponent and covering any possible retaliation such as punches or biting. I find it hard to believe that all this is absent from BJJ given its reputation, longevity and success in the ring. Can someone who trains in BJJ set my mind at rest please?


Atemi Jujutsu as in Pariset Jujutsu?


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## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

Buka said:


> This is one of my favorite things written in a long while.
> 
> _When you grapple, you briefly expose your body to get attacked with strikes. I even tested it out in sparring. Put my opponent in a rear-naked choke and he hit me in the face with a pretend melee weapon. _
> 
> ...



Damn you Buka, the only button I don't want to press is 'dislike' - it's gonna take a while to decide...


And isn't it adorable?

I do wonder if a kitten batting some string is there thinking "I'm so the ultimate hunting and killing machine"


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 26, 2018)

Jacky Zuki said:


> Obvious jest-fodder aside, I'm interested in the line that BJJ has no striking in it. I did Atemi Jujutsu for a while before I took up Karate and really enjoyed it as a fairly all-round self-defence system. I clearly remember punches and low kicks being trained as one of the basics. It wasn't extensive but it was practical and not just dismissed as being out-of-style. It was also expected that you would test all your performance of the techniques against the inability of escape, the degree of control over your opponent and covering any possible retaliation such as punches or biting. I find it hard to believe that all this is absent from BJJ given its reputation, longevity and success in the ring. Can someone who trains in BJJ set my mind at rest please?


BJJ contains strikes. However
1) They are mostly used to set up grappling techniques rather than being used for their own sake.
2) Many schools which are primarily focused on sport competition will leave them out of the curriculum.
3) Many BJJ practitioners will cross train in a specialized striking art rather than limiting themselves to the striking which is traditionally part of BJJ.


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## Tez3 (Jul 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I only wish he had said “bonked”.




You know what 'bonked' means in the UK, right?


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> You know what 'bonked' means in the UK, right? [/QUOTE
> 
> Don't lol ok...........................ok do as I wanna see how you tactful explain it lol


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

@Tez3

maybe just maybe @Isaiah90  has been watching Blackadder and like Baldrick has a cunning plan ...what ya think ?


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## Jacky Zuki (Jul 26, 2018)

frank raud said:


> Atemi Jujutsu as in Pariset Jujutsu?



Pariset doesn't ring a bell, the club didn't advertise a style but I was told it was Atemi Jujutsu at the time. The instructor was a Franco-German research assistant at the university and Wikipedia seems to indicate its European roots are French so it could have been. Unfortunately the club folded when he moved to Gothenburg which was a shame as I was just starting to get into it and there were no more Jujutsu opportunities in the area.



Tony Dismukes said:


> BJJ contains strikes. However
> 1) They are mostly used to set up grappling techniques rather than being used for their own sake.
> 2) Many schools which are primarily focused on sport competition will leave them out of the curriculum.
> 3) Many BJJ practitioners will cross train in a specialized striking art rather than limiting themselves to the striking which is traditionally part of BJJ.



Yes, the strikes we used were mainly to counter a striker on his feet and get him to the ground, which seems practical for a grappling art.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Your gonna get someone hurt



Yea, my attacker lol.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 26, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Double leg over arm bar. You can get the back of the leg.
> 
> And the only thing they can do to make you let go is break your arm.
> 
> But once your arm is broken you can use that to escape and you still have that bite



If you prevent the extension of your arm, they can't break it.


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## Tez3 (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> If you prevent the extension of your arm, they can't break it.



Yeah cos that's easy against an experienced BJJer who won't of course have any techniques to deal with that or even any other techniques to use.


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, my attacker lol.



Look with all due respect 

You have absolutely no concept of distance, body movement , body mechanics or dynamics ...you obviously will not accept that you really do not know what your trying to teach. 

Dude in that vid with the nerf gun you got popped everytime !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! umm should that not tell you something ???????????????? 

As another poster said you are trying to tell people that you have "sorted the flaws" or the other arts. You don't know those arts and that is obvious.

the vid of you doing your choke hold ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so help me dude you have no conception of distance or awareness at all. You have offered free lessons on here and jeez if any take it up (I doubt it) your gonna look like a dork (Sorry) as they will go through you big time as your wide open everytime totally wide open as you got zero concept behind what you are teaching or trying to teach. 

There is way way way more to what you are doing than merely applying a tech ...good grief I could teach you in 5 mins how to put a wrist lock on. However could you do that in a situation ??? no as you don't have all the rest that goes with it and that is seriously what your not getting, The guys that really know are trying to tell you that , listen be humble go actually study and stop running round like an ant with his behind on fire showing vids that just don't make the grade 


sorry if I offended anyone


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## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, my attacker lol.



The only way I see that happening is if your attacker falls over from laughing at you and hits their head.


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## Danny T (Jul 26, 2018)

When one doesn't know what one doesn't know but thinks one does know; one often shows, as in the original post, one is mostly ignorant (as to the above subject).
The original post is loud and clear as to such ignorance.


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## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Another one who's never trained it in his life



No need to train in it.....my chi balls of death will easily defeat your wannabe WWE art.


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> No need to train in it.....my chi balls of death will easily defeat your wannabe WWE art.




Ummm I don't think he is a WWE dude lol ....and well I'd buy a wheelbarrow


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## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> my chi balls of death





now disabled said:


> and well I'd buy a wheelbarrow


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, this MMA fighter boasted he could apply an armbar even if his opponent bit his leg. One of my buds said "ok, let's try it.." MMA fighter applied the armbar and the guy gently bit his leg. MMA fighter jolted and let go instantly, allowing him to escape. Goes to show BJJ isn't made for self defense like most people seem to think.





now disabled said:


> I'm kinda at a loss
> 
> how did your bud bite his leg if he was in an arm bar



I assume the arm bar he's talking about juji-gatame, where your leg goes over the opponent's face.

I also assume the "MMA fighter" (if he existed at all) was another YouTube-trained wannabee.

For the record, I have experimented with letting my training partners try to bite their way out of my juji-gatame. It doesn't work. Firstly, the way I apply the position makes it really hard for the opponent to get a good bite. Secondly, it's easy for me to break the arm (even going slowly) before they can inflict any damage (or even significant pain) with the bite.


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## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

If you really want to learn a deadly Brazilian art for street fighting....Learn Capoeira....which is spanish for the art of the fighting chicken originating from the cockfighting pits of Tijuana by the great but deadly El Diablo.  El Diablo's motto which still rings true today....if your not first your last.


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Capoeira



Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that word Portuguese and isn't that art Brazilian


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Look with all due respect
> 
> You have absolutely no concept of distance, body movement , body mechanics or dynamics ...you obviously will not accept that you really do not know what your trying to teach.
> 
> ...



lol you a keyboard martial artist. Same goes for the other trolls on my posts.


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## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that word Portuguese and isn't that art Brazilian



Hey...details are for losers...just go with it.


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you a keyboard martial artist. Same goes for the other trolls on my posts.



I am disabled now but no sir I am neither nor am I a Troll


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Hey...details are for losers...just go with it.



Oh ok


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## Martial D (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you a keyboard martial artist. Same goes for the other trolls on my posts.


Sure. Types 3 words a minute yet offers typing lessons.

Sound familiar?


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Sure. Types 3 words a minute yet offers typing lessons.
> 
> Sound familiar?




I can manage 6


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## Flying Crane (Jul 26, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> You know what 'bonked' means in the UK, right?


I do now!


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 26, 2018)

Once again we have reached a demonstration of the forum equivalent of Clarke's Law, to wit: "_Sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger effect is indistinguishable from trolling and vice-versa_."


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Once again we have reached a demonstration of the forum equivalent of Clarke's Law, to wit: "_Sufficiently advanced Dunning-Kruger effect is indistinguishable from trolling and vice-versa_."




Ok that is very polite way of saying something without saying it outright, very very well put and my respect


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## Flying Crane (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> If you really want to learn a deadly Brazilian art for street fighting....Learn Capoeira....which is spanish for the art of the fighting chicken originating from the cockfighting pits of Tijuana by the great but deadly El Diablo.  El Diablo's motto which still rings true today....if your not first your last.


Wow.  With this one post you have displayed as much ignorance as the OP.


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## wab25 (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> the vid of you doing your choke hold ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Where are the vids of him doing technique?


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## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

wab25 said:


> Where are the vids of him doing technique?



Look back in this thread


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## dunc (Jul 26, 2018)

Coming late to this and trying to provide a balanced view:

Most BJJ academies that I know do some simple standing SD techniques so it's not entirely absent
Probably SD accounts for 5-10% of mat time

BJJ gives you a lot of highly resistive hands on grappling time which I think provides a great skill set to look after yourself. However, SD is a different thing and I do think that the BJJ community have a tendency to over-emphasise the SD cross over (and the non-BJJ community tend to under-emphasise the SD cross over)


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## wab25 (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Look back in this thread


I only see the videos in the OP of him "analyzing" youtube fights. I wanted to see him dodging nerf guns and applying chokes. Do I have to sign up on his site to see those? Or are they in the middle of his analysis videos?


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## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

wab25 said:


> I only see the videos in the OP of him "analyzing" youtube fights. I wanted to see him dodging nerf guns and applying chokes. Do I have to sign up on his site to see those? Or are they in the middle of his analysis videos?



No, separate videos.

If you follow any of the video links here to YouTube, then click his name, then go to "videos" and scroll down they're all there.


----------



## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

wab25 said:


> I only see the videos in the OP of him "analyzing" youtube fights. I wanted to see him dodging nerf guns and applying chokes. Do I have to sign up on his site to see those? Or are they in the middle of his analysis videos?



The choke is in this thread and the nerf is in the thread starting sd in nc I think


----------



## Headhunter (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, my attacker lol.


Wow again sounds like a 12 year olds argument...same type of spelling to...do you really not know how to spell the word yeah


----------



## Headhunter (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you a keyboard martial artist. Same goes for the other trolls on my posts.


Lol says the guy who's trashing a martial art he's never trained in in his whole life


----------



## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> Lol says the guy who's trashing a martial art he's never trained in in his whole life



He can trash me all he likes.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Wow.  With this one post you have displayed as much ignorance as the OP.


----------



## Headhunter (Jul 26, 2018)

I've just looked at this guys videos and almost every video is called why insert style here gets you killed in self defence. Oh and a video of him telling sparring stories and a few fake wrestling videos....well that tells me all I need to know


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I've just looked at this guys videos and almost every video is called why insert style here gets you killed in self defence. Oh and a video of him telling sparring stories and a few fake wrestling videos....well that tells me all I need to know



Well it’s pretty common knowledge that before imparting great street fighting knowledge it is a requirement to disparage all other arts.

Except the dangerous and deadly fighting chicken art of El Diablo which is undisparageable.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Jul 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Wow.  With this one post you have displayed as much ignorance as the OP.


I'm pretty certain that CB is joking around and deliberately trying to make a comment as misinformed as the OP's nonsense. Same for another comment he made earlier in the thread. Poe's law applies here.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...


You are once again confounding sport rules with the curriculum of an art. Sport BJJ doesn't deal with punches...except when it's being trained for MMA purposes, then it does. But there's a range of approaches to BJJ, including a SD approach.

And ground fighting is actually NOT terrible for SD. If you are on the ground, ground fighting is excellent for SD. While I could agree that choosing ground fighting as a go-to is not always a good choice, you're far overstating the point.

And lastly, weapons training is far from a universal solution. It helps, but only if you actually have a weapon to hand. In many places, a stick (in the form of a cane or such) is the best weapon folks can hope to have with them.

You have an idealized view of things. I recommend you find some folks who are open to sharing ideas and spend some time on the mats with them. Share your thoughts, and find out what theirs are. Specifically, look for where they have counter-arguments to your thoughts - that's how we best test our conclusions. I once thought ground fighting was an awful idea. Then I learned a bit more of it, and realized it has a place. That started with someone emphasizing that the point of learning ground fighting was to be able to defend yourself if you end up there. I listened and learned, and added ground fighting to my toolset.

BJJ is unlikely to get someone killed (though I don't consider it optimal for a lot of situations). Having mistaken notions of their skillset, a poor understanding of SD situations and training, or ignoring tools that are useful just might get someone hurt, though.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> I use some BJJ techniques, but they are mostly stand up grappling and i modified them to make them work. Other than that, i don't really use the rest of BJJ.


Why would you use BJJ stand-up as part of your base? There's much better stand-up to be found. BJJ's ground work, however...I'd bet Tony Dismukes can get up off the ground smoother and more protected than you. Why? Because he trains to get up.


----------



## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Having mistaken notions of their skillset, a poor understanding of SD situations and training, or ignoring tools that are useful just might get someone hurt, though.



well put sir well put indeed


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 26, 2018)

Kung Fu Wang said:


> I just don't know how that's possible.


Start by doing an improper RNC. The rest gets easier after you start with bad technique.


----------



## Flying Crane (Jul 26, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I'm pretty certain that CB is joking around and deliberately trying to make a comment as misinformed as the OP's nonsense. Same for another comment he made earlier in the thread. Poe's law applies here.


I hope that is true and the comment was meant tongue-in-cheek.  So much of that nonsense gets thrown around here, it can be difficult to spot when someone is not being serious.


----------



## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> I hope that is true and the comment was meant tongue-in-cheek.  So much of that nonsense gets thrown around here, it can be difficult to spot when someone is not being serious.


Based on the earlier comment and the chi balls thing, im 98% sure its tongue in cheek


----------



## Flying Crane (Jul 26, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Based on the earlier comment and the chi balls thing, im 98% sure its tongue in cheek


Maybe so.  Chi balls is a pretty generic thing.  When you start naming specific systems then it blurs the intent.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

Flying Crane said:


> Maybe so.  Chi balls is a pretty generic thing.  When you start naming specific systems then it blurs the intent.



It was just me having a little fun.

BJJ is more than proven itself....so I thought I would just add even more ridiculousness to a ridiculous thread.


Note:  the el Diablo and fighting chicken is a Will Ferrell reference


----------



## Buka (Jul 26, 2018)

I went to youtube, heartfelt apologies, I feel awful. I had no idea the OP was special needs, I really didn't.

Again, sorry, I meant no disrespect.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

Buka said:


> I went to youtube, heartfelt apologies, I feel awful. I had no idea the OP was special needs, I really didn't.
> 
> Again, sorry, I meant no disrespect.


----------



## Ryan_ (Jul 26, 2018)

Headhunter said:


> I've just looked at this guys videos and almost every video is called why insert style here gets you killed in self defence. Oh and a video of him telling sparring stories and a few fake wrestling videos....well that tells me all I need to know


Maybe he should try Ameridote


----------



## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

Tell you what, this guy has done something that so very few people ever manage to achieve.

He's brought together people from many apparently disparate arts by being a common enema.


Oops, I meant 'enemy' - must've been a Freudian slip because his attitude really gets right up my a...........


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> No i don't see how that's relevant to what i said. It changes nothing.



Now see, I was just sitting back reading and enjoying the bantering, and then you had to go and say the above.  If you train in an art, you will find things that may not at first (and granted, perhaps never) look like a viable technique.  But as you train, and get good enough, you are more and more likely to see how, and then, make the technique work.

I was passing curious so I looked at your site.  You state you have "... trained in JKD, Wing Chun, boxing, weapon disarms, BJJ, and various skills for 8 years."  So you have trained in 5 arts and 'various' skills.  That sounds impressive except I don't know how you would get to be really good at those things, including BJJ.  BTW, I wondered why you would talk about having studied BJJ when you put it down so strongly.  You mentioned taking some BJJ techniques and modifying them, is that the training you have in the other arts you mention?

You may really be great at using different MA techniques in an amalgam of some sort, and may be great at teaching.  But I must admit I at least, am somewhat skeptical.

Oh, you might want to stay away from Maui.


----------



## Tony Dismukes (Jul 26, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> You state you have "... trained in JKD, Wing Chun, boxing, weapon disarms, BJJ, and various skills for 8 years." So you have trained in 5 arts and 'various' skills. That sounds impressive except I don't know how you would get to be really good at those things, including BJJ. BTW, I wondered why you would talk about having studied BJJ when you put it down so strongly. You mentioned taking some BJJ techniques and modifying them, is that the training you have in the other arts you mention?


At this point it's pretty certain that his "training" in the above arts mostly consists of watching YouTube. He may have taken a free intro class at an actual school somewhere, but it's not clear.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> If you prevent the extension of your arm, they can't break it.


If you don't understand the technique, you probably won't manage to prevent that.


----------



## frank raud (Jul 26, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Why would you use BJJ stand-up as part of your base? There's much better stand-up to be found. BJJ's ground work, however...I'd bet Tony Dismukes can get up off the ground smoother and more protected than you. Why? Because he trains to get up.


Well, he's all disparaged judo, and well, wrestling, you know, with the singlet and all. Let's just say it's not slimming. So that's out.


----------



## pgsmith (Jul 26, 2018)

But the fellow is *definitely* entertaining.


----------



## JR 137 (Jul 26, 2018)

pgsmith said:


> But the fellow is *definitely* entertaining.


He’s the most entertaining guy I’ve seen here in a while, that’s for sure.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> He’s the most entertaining guy I’ve seen here in a while, that’s for sure.



I still prefer Wu Wei  or whatever that guy’s name was.   Security guy that created his on style.  I miss him.


----------



## now disabled (Jul 26, 2018)

Now this vid may be of use to @Isaiah90 with ref to his bullet dogging


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> If you prevent the extension of your arm, they can't break it.



That is correct.

Which is the secret BJJ will never admit.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

Tony Dismukes said:


> I assume the arm bar he's talking about juji-gatame, where your leg goes over the opponent's face.
> 
> I also assume the "MMA fighter" (if he existed at all) was another YouTube-trained wannabee.
> 
> For the record, I have experimented with letting my training partners try to bite their way out of my juji-gatame. It doesn't work. Firstly, the way I apply the position makes it really hard for the opponent to get a good bite. Secondly, it's easy for me to break the arm (even going slowly) before they can inflict any damage (or even significant pain) with the bite.



Yes but once the arm is broken you can no longer hold that arm bar. You need the structure to keep the lock in place.

Having the arm broken is part of the escape.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

now disabled said:


> I can manage 6



Uses both fingers?


----------



## Kung Fu Wang (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> If you prevent the extension of your arm, they can't break it.


If you want to

- bend your arm, your opponent can help you to bend more.
- extend your arm, your opponent can help you to extend more.

Your opponent can always tries to straight your arm first. When you resist and bend your arm, he can then borrow your bending force and help you to bend more.

Your opponent can still break your arm even if you try to bend it. Here is an example.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Yes but once the arm is broken you can no longer hold that arm bar. You need the structure to keep the lock in place.
> 
> Having the arm broken is part of the escape.



And always maintaining broken arms makes you arm bar proof.


----------



## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> And always maintaining broken arms makes you arm bar proof.



A much more comfortable option (at least in the long term) would be to have some extra elbows fitted, but ones that are omnidirectional ball and socket designs instead.

3 or 4 in each arm would do it.

Might as well get some more knees too, then you'd be utterly BJJ resistant.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 26, 2018)

pdg said:


> A much more comfortable option (at least in the long term) would be to have some extra elbows fitted, but ones that are omnidirectional ball and socket designs instead.
> 
> 3 or 4 in each arm would do it.
> 
> Might as well get some more knees too, then you'd be utterly BJJ resistant.



Gonna need to have that cast iron neck installed too.


----------



## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Gonna need to have that cast iron neck installed too.



Cast iron is far too heavy and brittle - I'd opt for the carbon fibre / titanium version.

It's a bit more expensive, but the benefits will soon outweigh the cost.


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> And always maintaining broken arms makes you arm bar proof.



Tis but a scratch. 


I do have a question and a TLDR moment about grappling and firearms, i have seen refrences and teaching on how to point blank use a pistol as a pistol consistently and on the ground.  Basically you grapple while using your pistol as a pistol rather than as a club or both.     was curious where it sat in with comparison of ground fighting training etc.   Its taught in combative pistol classes usually and i know most traditional places dont teach firearms at all anyway.   excuse the wording dont have a good way to explain my question.


----------



## frank raud (Jul 26, 2018)

Now remember kiddies BJJ WILL GET U KILD IN DA STREETZ tm  , but this stuff won't


----------



## Martial D (Jul 26, 2018)

pdg said:


> Cast iron is far too heavy and brittle - I'd opt for the carbon fibre / titanium version.
> 
> It's a bit more expensive, but the benefits will soon outweigh the cost.


What about the teflon eyeballs, skin, and testicles?

Every one knows a bite, eyegouge, or nutshot is all you need to defeat any BJJ guy.


----------



## JowGaWolf (Jul 26, 2018)

frank raud said:


> Now remember kiddies BJJ WILL GET U KILD IN DA STREETZ tm  , but this stuff won't


What the heck is that?


----------



## Steve (Jul 26, 2018)

This thread is great.  Reads like freestyle hip hop.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

frank raud said:


> Now remember kiddies BJJ WILL GET U KILD IN DA STREETZ tm  , but this stuff won't



Holy cow.

That was awesome.  It's like real life Matrix moves.

I wonder if he offers group rates


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

pdg said:


> A much more comfortable option (at least in the long term) would be to have some extra elbows fitted, but ones that are omnidirectional ball and socket designs instead.
> 
> 3 or 4 in each arm would do it.
> 
> Might as well get some more knees too, then you'd be utterly BJJ resistant.



Removable ankles for heel hooks. That would screw ,em.


----------



## frank raud (Jul 26, 2018)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224362927591794
			




  Unedited training in the streetz. Keeping it reel.


----------



## pdg (Jul 26, 2018)

frank raud said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224362927591794
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you need to be signed in to farcebook to view that?


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

Steve said:


> This thread is great.  Reads like freestyle hip hop.



Moms spaghetti.


----------



## JR 137 (Jul 26, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> What the heck is that?


I wish I could come up with something clever and witty, but the truth is far more comical than anything any of us can come up with.  Unless of course we’ve got Dave Chappelle posting here, and even then it’ll be tough...

That’s his gun defense.  Seriously.

(Mic drop)


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 26, 2018)

After seeing that gun defense....I will no longer carry a gun since I now see how useless it is and how easily I could be disarmed.


----------



## drop bear (Jul 26, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> After seeing that gun defense....I will no longer carry a gun since I now see how useless it is and how easily I could be disarmed.



A sword is where it is at.





Although I carry one forthe same reason he does. To make myself less dangerous.


----------



## Anarax (Jul 26, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Here's an explanation why people should stop teaching BJJ for self defense.
> *
> Little to no striking* - BJJ has little to no striking. BJJ claims that you can subdue an attacker peacefully without striking or kicking. The problem is that if you have to avoid strikes and kicks to counter them, your art is weak in those areas. If you have to use strikes or kicks, you acknowledge grappling isn't enough to engage in combat.
> 
> ...


Having a basic understanding of the style you're criticizing is a great place to start. Judging by your videos, wording and overall explanation of BJJ, it seems you lack that basic understanding. 

The only thing I can agree on is the knife defense in the video is poor.


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Uses both fingers?



Oh you worked that one out ............hmmm lol


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I wish I could come up with something clever and witty, but the truth is far more comical than anything any of us can come up with.  Unless of course we’ve got Dave Chappelle posting here, and even then it’ll be tough...
> 
> That’s his gun defense.  Seriously.
> 
> (Mic drop)




Im telling you the guy related to Baldrick


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

drop bear said:


> A sword is where it is at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh jeez he been watching the Highlander TV series


----------



## dunc (Jul 27, 2018)

If you know how to defend an arm bar then you can put up a good fight and frustrate it

But...

You have to have the experience to pre-empt the arm bar attack

And...

This only comes from training (and sparring) with people who are skilled at hitting arm bars from lots of different situations


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 27, 2018)

frank raud said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224362927591794
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow!  People spend lots of money on kicking bags when a simple trip to the trash heap will yield results like that.  

Actually, it kind of reminds me of how I felt I looked when I first started studying Hapkido.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 27, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> I wish I could come up with something clever and witty, but the truth is far more comical than anything any of us can come up with.  Unless of course we’ve got Dave Chappelle posting here, and even then it’ll be tough...
> 
> That’s his gun defense.  Seriously.
> 
> (Mic drop)



Well, it worked.  

Of course it helps that the person holding the gun obviously has his mind on a pretty girl somewhere who is probably the sister of the defender.  I wonder what would happen if he really tried to shoot the defender?


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Yes but once the arm is broken you can no longer hold that arm bar. You need the structure to keep the lock in place.
> 
> Having the arm broken is part of the escape.


Why didn't you tell me this before I went to play with Tony? Damnit!


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

frank raud said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224362927591794
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a new Wing Chun form?


----------



## JR 137 (Jul 27, 2018)

oftheherd1 said:


> Wow!  People spend lots of money on kicking bags when a simple trip to the trash heap will yield results like that.
> 
> Actually, it kind of reminds me of how I felt I looked when I first started studying Hapkido.


Why do I continually underestimate the level of stupidity out there?


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> Why do I continually underestimate the level of stupidity out there?



Why? 

Well the saying "there's nowt as queer as folks" springs to mind


----------



## Martial D (Jul 27, 2018)

I've reread these threads and changed my mind. From here on out I'm abandoning Wing Chun, Mui Thai, BJJ, and boxing. They will probably get me beaten or killed.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

Martial D said:


> I've reread these threads and changed my mind. From here on out I'm abandoning Wing Chun, Mui Thai, BJJ, and boxing. They will probably get me beaten or killed.


Agreed. You should switch to an obscure art. Nobody on YouTube has said those are dangerous, so they are clearly the best.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 27, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. You should switch to an obscure art. Nobody on YouTube has said those are dangerous, so they are clearly the best.



I was all set to recommend one.  Then I realized it is so obscure I couldn't remember its name.

(Admit it, you knew that was coming, right?)


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 27, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> Agreed. You should switch to an obscure art. Nobody on YouTube has said those are dangerous, so they are clearly the best.




my style is open if anyone's interested.


----------



## pdg (Jul 27, 2018)

Rat said:


> my style is open if anyone's interested.



Nah, that'll probably get you beaten or killed in self defence


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> You are once again confounding sport rules with the curriculum of an art. Sport BJJ doesn't deal with punches...except when it's being trained for MMA purposes, then it does. But there's a range of approaches to BJJ, including a SD approach.
> 
> And ground fighting is actually NOT terrible for SD. If you are on the ground, ground fighting is excellent for SD. While I could agree that choosing ground fighting as a go-to is not always a good choice, you're far overstating the point.
> 
> ...



lol you didn't explain why ground-fighting is good for self defense or why any form of BJJ works on the street.



Martial D said:


> I've reread these threads and changed my mind. From here on out I'm abandoning Wing Chun, Mui Thai, BJJ, and boxing. They will probably get me beaten or killed.



Yea, just practice them for fun or something. Don't use them in self defense.


----------



## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you didn't explain why ground-fighting is good for self defense or why any form of BJJ works on the street.









For when one of these doesn't instantly cripple you.


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

Rat said:


> For when one of these doesn't instantly cripple you.



This is a street fight, not an attack.


----------



## Danny T (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> This is a street fight, not an attack.


Do you know the definition of 'attack'? If one is in a physical altercation one is either attacking or being attacked. Otherwise there is no fight.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, just practice them for fun or something. Don't use them in self defense.



Not even then! I don't want to get beaten and killed during my fun time!


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Not even then! I don't want to get beaten and killed during my fun time!



You mean you don't want to dodge nerf guns ....ah your no fun lol


----------



## Martial D (Jul 27, 2018)

Lol guns. Didn't you watch the video? Just run at the gunman in a half circle and grab it. Guns are useless, and will get you beaten or killed in self defense.


----------



## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Lol guns. Didn't you watch the video? Just run at the gunman in a half circle and grab it. Guns are useless, and will get you beaten or killed in self defense.




no I gave up watching after he got popped with the nerf gun lol


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you didn't explain why ground-fighting is good for self defense or why any form of BJJ works on the street.


Actually, I did:


gpseymour said:


> And ground fighting is actually NOT terrible for SD. If you are on the ground, ground fighting is excellent for SD. While I could agree that choosing ground fighting as a go-to is not always a good choice, you're far overstating the point.


----------



## Gerry Seymour (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> This is a street fight, not an attack.


So, you think attackers never get people on the ground? They operate differently than angry people who get into a fight?


----------



## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Do you know the definition of 'attack'? If one is in a physical altercation one is either attacking or being attacked. Otherwise there is no fight.




Apropos nothing, I always laugh when they say in American football someone is an 'offensive player'.

Btw anyone else going to watch the blood moon tonight? In UK it's starting about 2100h for about an hour and a half.


----------



## Buka (Jul 27, 2018)

I take back everything I said. I think Master status is in order. Maybe too young for Grandmaster, but maybe not.


----------



## oftheherd1 (Jul 27, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> Apropos nothing, I always laugh when they say in American football someone is an 'offensive player'.
> 
> Btw anyone else going to watch the blood moon tonight? In UK it's starting about 2100h for about an hour and a half.



I would love to.  But alas!  I will be in my survival shelter to avoid the consequences of possible confrontations with other observers, and letting my inadequate Hapkido get me beaten up and killed.

Actually, unfortunately, we are expecting severe rain, wind and thunder storms this evening.  I hope they don't beat me up and kill me.      And this is a long on as well.


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

now disabled said:


> You mean you don't want to dodge nerf guns ....ah your no fun lol



See my video.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> See my video.


Trust me, at this point we've all seen it. Now I know how not to get beaten or killed in self defense against a gunman. You are truly a phenom.


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

gpseymour said:


> So, you think attackers never get people on the ground? They operate differently than angry people who get into a fight?



People who train for fights operate differently than people who train for attacks. If someone were to swing on you out of nowhere, you may or may not be able to do all your flashy martial arts. Either way, you would've already been hit several times and possibly knocked out before you can do anything.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

Pretty sure if you study his gun defense video and his sword technique video you automatically become A McCloud of the clan McCloud immortals


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Pretty sure if you study his gun defense video and his sword technique video you automatically become A McCloud of the clan McCloud immortals



Not familiar with that, but thanks.


----------



## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Not even then! I don't want to get beaten and killed during my fun time!



Ok, don't use it then.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Not familiar with that, but thanks.



Not familiar with Highlander.........man I’m getting old.


----------



## Martial D (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Ok, don't use it then.


I won't! I can't even watch UFC anymore just in case it rubs off on me....


....and I get beaten or killed in self defense.


----------



## pdg (Jul 27, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> Btw anyone else going to watch the blood moon tonight? In UK it's starting about 2100h for about an hour and a half.



First fully cloudy evening for weeks, supposed to be a good night for planet spotting too 

Plus, I'm pretty sure that looking at the moon or using a telescope would most likely get me beaten or killed in self defence.


----------



## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

pdg said:


> Plus, I'm pretty sure that looking at the moon or using a telescope would most likely get me beaten or killed in self defence.



Old Icelandic proverb says if you rub a Gurkha’s head under a blood moon you will become invincible regardless if you use TKD or BJJ.


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## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2018)

pdg said:


> First fully cloudy evening for weeks, supposed to be a good night for planet spotting too
> 
> Plus, I'm pretty sure that looking at the moon or using a telescope would most likely get me beaten or killed in self defence.




Ah we have thunderstorms, bloody great big ones, thunder is just going on and on, no lightening just rumbling all the time. Then the wind blows a hooley and we get torrential rain. Worst thing is it's interrupted the cricket, Yorkshire playing no less, I fear for someone's life if it doesn't start soon.


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## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Old Icelandic proverb says if you rub a Gurkha’s head under a blood moon you will become invincible regardless if you use TKD or BJJ.




Probably not his head though lol. They are fit, young and healthy young men.....……….


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## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> Probably not his head though lol. They are fit, young and healthy young men.....……….



Gotta be his head.......Tez if it was easy everyone would be invincible


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## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Not familiar with Highlander.........man I’m getting old.



No your not and ummm don't give him ideas as jeez next he will be wearing the long duster and ......oh no I dread to think


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## frank raud (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea, just practice them for fun or something. Don't use them in self defense.


 Instead, use the techniques from Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ and Krav to make your own, much more effective form of self defense.  Because if the original forms are useless for self defense, the techniques chosen out of them by someone with a seminar's worth of training will be so much gooder.  Or for all unarmed self defense aspects, carry a gun, but not in  a holster, because that would be too slow for the drive by shootings that happen on the daily.


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## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Old Icelandic proverb says if you rub a Gurkha’s head under a blood moon you will become invincible regardless if you use TKD or BJJ.



Old Ghurka proverb "Try it and you gonna lose your B**ls"

seriously you do NOT want yo piss a Ghurka of they really are tough guys and that without TKD lol


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## frank raud (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> People who train for fights operate differently than people who train for attacks. If someone were to swing on you out of nowhere, you may or may not be able to do all your flashy martial arts. Either way, you would've already been hit several times and possibly knocked out before you can do anything.


Now, remember, your flashy martial arts are GOING TO GET U KILD IN DA STREETZtm. But individual techniques chosen by someone with no indepth knowledge will allow you to deflect bullets and smote bad guys from a distance. To say nothing about what it can do to promote rapid growth in your, ah, "underdeveloped areas".


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## now disabled (Jul 27, 2018)

frank raud said:


> Instead, use the techniques from Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ and Krav to make your own, much more effective form of self defense.  Because if the original forms are useless for self defense, the techniques chosen out of them by someone with a seminar's worth of training will be so much gooder.  Or for all unarmed self defense aspects, carry a gun, but not in  a holster, because that would be too slow for the drive by shootings that happen on the daily.




Ummm I think the seminars were watching you tube not actually attending anything


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## pdg (Jul 27, 2018)

frank raud said:


> To say nothing about what it can do to promote rapid growth in your, ah, "underdeveloped areas".



Chi balls?


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## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

now disabled said:


> Old Ghurka proverb "Try it and you gonna lose your B**ls"
> 
> seriously you do NOT want yo piss a Ghurka of they really are tough guys and that without TKD lol



No one said it was going to be easy


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## pgsmith (Jul 27, 2018)

Tez3 said:


> I fear for someone's life if it doesn't start soon.


  That's because Cricket matches will get you beaten or killed in self defense!


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## Tez3 (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Gotta be his head.......Tez if it was easy everyone would be invincible




Mmm you've never watched Carry on films have you? The epitome of the art of British double entendre...…….


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## Steve (Jul 27, 2018)

CB Jones said:


> Not familiar with Highlander.........man I’m getting old.


Dude.  It’s McLeod.


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## Steve (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Ok, don't use it then.


I just hope for your sake you never have to find out whether your stuff works, and that nobody you teach does either.   Good luck, man.


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## CB Jones (Jul 27, 2018)

Steve said:


> Dude.  It’s McLeod.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

Steve said:


> I just hope for your sake you never have to find out whether your stuff works, and that nobody you teach does either.   Good luck, man.



I hope i never get attacked.


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## drop bear (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> lol you didn't explain why ground-fighting is good for self defense or why any form of BJJ works on the street.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, just practice them for fun or something. Don't use them in self defense.



Because gravity is the only one of the forces of the universe that you can employ in a fight.

It is basically a super power.


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## Isaiah90 (Jul 27, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Because gravity is the only one of the forces of the universe that you can employ in a fight.
> 
> It is basically a super power.



Yea and watch yourself get pounded on lol.


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## drop bear (Jul 27, 2018)

Danny T said:


> Do you know the definition of 'attack'? If one is in a physical altercation one is either attacking or being attacked. Otherwise there is no fight.



Funnily enough there is an Ian Atherby concept that separates consensual with non consensual violence.

I don't get that there is a difference except that obviously if you don't give the guy any warning you will get extra shots in.


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## drop bear (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea and watch yourself get pounded on lol.



Yeah. But if I control the ground fight I control who gets pounded on.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jul 27, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea and watch yourself get pounded on lol.


Have you considered going to a dojo and trying out your theories? If youre ever in new York (this is not a challenge, just an invitation), i welcome you to try to attack me and afterwards we can discuss how it went. Only rule would be no guns, since you dont know how to use one, so there is a very high chance it would end in one of our deaths.


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## Martial D (Jul 28, 2018)

kempodisciple said:


> Have you considered going to a dojo and trying out your theories? If youre ever in new York (this is not a challenge, just an invitation), i welcome you to try to attack me and afterwards we can discuss how it went. Only rule would be no guns, since you dont know how to use one, so there is a very high chance it would end in one of our deaths.


Don't be silly, he clearly stated that he tested his system by sparring a couple of times against untrained opponents, which is pretty scientific.


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## drop bear (Jul 28, 2018)

Martial D said:


> Don't be silly, he clearly stated that he tested his system by sparring a couple of times against untrained opponents, which is pretty scientific.



So it worked on the street?


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 28, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> Yea and watch yourself get pounded on lol.


Maybe save that for one of us who hasn’t had to use their training as often as DB has. You’ll almost be able to make a point then.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 28, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Funnily enough there is an Ian Atherby concept that separates consensual with non consensual violence.
> 
> I don't get that there is a difference except that obviously if you don't give the guy any warning you will get extra shots in.


There’s some difference, but it’s often made out to be more significant than it is.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 28, 2018)

drop bear said:


> So it worked on the street?


I think the one video was, in fact, done on or near a street.


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## JR 137 (Jul 28, 2018)

drop bear said:


> Funnily enough there is an Ian Atherby concept that separates consensual with non consensual violence.
> 
> I don't get that there is a difference except that obviously if you don't give the guy any warning you will get extra shots in.


I think there’s two differences they’ve got in mind:

1. In a non-consensual fight, you typically don’t realize you’re in a fight until it’s already started.  True enough, and it changes things a bit.  You usually have to play “catch up.”

2. They think there’s far more dancing around when it’s consensual, like a pro boxing match.  True enough until once you actually engage; then it’s like everything else.

Other than the element of surprise and maybe the first few seconds of looking for your in, I don’t see much difference between “do you want to take this outside?” and the guy who didn’t say anything and started throwing fists because you looked at his girlfriend the wrong way.  Once that initial contact is made, a fight is a fight.  The rest is just semantics.  No need to base an entire system out of the differences.  Saying “my system is designed to defend in a non-consensual fight” is just an excuse for getting your a$$ kicked IMO.

If you don’t see the punch coming, chances are it’ll hit you and end your night, sucker punch or not.

I’ve been in quite a few “do you want to go outside?” and fights that started before I knew I was in a fight.  There really wasn’t much difference.  It’s not like consensual was always a boxing match and non-consensual was always a wrestling match.  A fight is a fight, regardless of how long you’ve got to measure up the other guy right beforehand.

It’s not like every consensual fight is Duran vs Leonard 2 (the whole thing, not just the no mas part) and every non-consensual fight is Hagler vs Hearns.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 28, 2018)

JR 137 said:


> It’s not like every consensual fight is Duran vs Leonard 2 (the whole thing, not just the no mas part) and every non-consensual fight is Hagler vs Hearns.


Hey, speak in English, man. What the heck does that mean??


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## FriedRice (Jul 28, 2018)

Buka said:


> But, alas, it is my duty to inform you you are heretofore banished from the Island of Maui. Should you come to Maui you will be turned away at the airport.



I didn't even know you can do that?


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## FriedRice (Jul 28, 2018)

The main problem with BJJ is that too many dudes don't wear cups.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2018)

frank raud said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224362927591794
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only good thing I can say about this video is that he has good balance for someone who may be on drugs.   Everything else is just really negative from having a mental illness and being in the middle of the street (unsupervised) to someone who isn't on drugs and doesn't have a mental issue.  Just a poor soul who is disillusioned. I never thought being high would be the best case scenario.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> This is a street fight, not an attack.


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2018)

Isaiah90 said:


> See my video.


Oh crap.  That's your video?  

You are basing gun defense off on what happens with a nerf gun.   All of your results are going to be in accurate.  I would highly recommend that you watch some actual videos of people being shot at so that you can get a better idea about the reality of what really goes on in real gun defense.  I would also recommend that you read some books written by knowledgeable people so that you can understand the ranges that one may find themselves in when faced with a gun. 

You are the only person I know who has even done a demo from "no man's land"  (the range where you are too far attack the gun holder and too close to run away without getting shot."  This also happens to be the golden spot for gun carriers because they can see everything you do, including your intent to charge in on them.   This is also the range that a police officer will put a suspect in.  

Unlike your demo boy.  ("demo boy / demo girl" is generic term for the guy /girl that gets the punishment in martial art arts demo). When someone charges in the attacker as the option to move backwards as you charge.  Your guy didn't move backwards nor did he try to evade your charging efforts.  Nor did he wait until you got close enough to just pump a few shots into at close range.   Self-defense of any type is less about the physical action that you have to take and more about understanding the realistic opportunities and risk that may exist in any situation and environment that is based on ones ability and the assumed ability of an attacker.   



Isaiah90 said:


> People who train for fights operate differently than people who train for attacks. If someone were to swing on you out of nowhere, you may or may not be able to do all your flashy martial arts.


If someone was able to do this to me then I have just failed my awareness test and hopefully it would put me into recovery mode and not sleep mode.  Second.  Practical martial arts isn't flashy, those who study martial arts for actual use of techniques understand this right away.  As nice as it would be for it to look like what we see in the movies, it's far from that.  In terms of appearance it's dull and boring looking, but it gets the job done.

If you make plans on inaccurate information then your plan will fail when it's put to the real test.  In the case of your video, failing means getting a fatal gun shot would.


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## pdg (Jul 28, 2018)

JowGaWolf said:


> Oh crap.  That's your video?
> 
> You are basing gun defense off on what happens with a nerf gun.   All of your results are going to be in accurate.  I would highly recommend that you watch some actual videos of people being shot at so that you can get a better idea about the reality of what really goes on in real gun defense.  I would also recommend that you read some books written by knowledgeable people so that you can understand the ranges that one may find themselves in when faced with a gun.
> 
> ...



Thing is, it's not even successful.

He gets shot.

Only by accident though, so y'know...


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## JowGaWolf (Jul 28, 2018)

The reality of real gun self-defense.
1. Guns are scary
2. No one wants to get shot

Had to edit it because I couldn't get the link to show without the video.


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## Grenadier (Jul 28, 2018)

*Admin's Note:*

Art bashing is not allowed here.  This thread is closed, and not open for further discussion.


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