# Audible vs Inaudible breathing



## MBuzzy (Sep 21, 2008)

Which does your organization/school encourage while performing techniques?  While in Korea, my Sabomnim believed that breathing should be inaudible and that you should breath, but be quiet while performing techniques.  The US Soo Bahk Do Federation encourages audible breathing, even associating certain syllables with certain movements or combinations to help with the proper type of breathing.  For example, on some combinations, the first movement should be a diaphragm compressed breath, while the second movement should be more expansive, so these breaths are associated with a "shoop" and "cha" sound to facilitate breathing and the proper movement of the diaphragm.  

Do you see any advantages/disadvantages to the two methods?  Any reasons to use one above the other? 

I personally see good points in both.  In fact, learning to breath more audibly has really helped me in associating the proper type of breathing with the movements (especially in the softer hyung, such as chil sung and yuk ro).  Although as you advance in rank, I would see it as something that can fade off and become more quiet.


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## Muwubu16858 (Sep 21, 2008)

I've witnessed the breathing style used by Soo Bahk Do, and I personally don't agree with it. The style I teach is to breath so you can hear until red belt, and slowly through training, to become inaudible, and through the nose only. Because my lineage is with Oh Sae Joon, this style breathing works side by side with our Dae Ryun (loud breathing gives away your condition in a fight, and gives me the upper hand in an engagement) I'd say that you can relate our breathing to a toned down Goju-ryu (not as intense, though) in the early belt levels. We also employ the use of several techniques on one breath, as opposed to the SBD/TSD shup/cha after every movement. Think of when you inhale, that you breath is represented by a syringe filled with water. The SBD/TSD method of breathing would be that at each movement, you drained a portion of the water in the syringe, until after several movements, the syringe is emptied. At this point you'd refill, i.e. inhale, for the next set of movements. If you equate your inhaled breath to you energy, then with each movement, using this method, your power at contact is gradually weakened, as your energy/breath is pushed out in short bursts the way I've seen in SBD/TSD. If you use the same syringe with water, and now, hold that water throughout a short set of techniques, then at the finishing movement of that short set, you empty the syringe, you've maintained that same amount of energy for several movements without diminishing power distributed at the contact point. If you don't understand my long gibberish, it's hard to equate my theory into language capacity, as most of my understanding of energy and technique is based on experience, not theory.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 21, 2008)

I'd like to hear what the Federations says of the "shoop" breathing now.  It used to be an open secret that at a certain kodanja, the grandmaster breathed like that once...and it was copied because it sounded cool in tournaments.  

I find it somewhat surprising that this kind of breathing has become dogma.


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## MBuzzy (Sep 21, 2008)

maunakumu said:


> I'd like to hear what the Federations says of the "shoop" breathing now.  It used to be an open secret that at a certain kodanja, the grandmaster breathed like that once...and it was copied because it sounded cool in tournaments.
> 
> I find it somewhat surprising that this kind of breathing has become dogma.



I have heard stories about the breathing of the Grandmaster being copied.  I don't know the truth behind them or the exact circumstances though.


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## Makalakumu (Sep 21, 2008)

What does the Fed say about the "shoop" breathing?  Why is it being done now?


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## MBuzzy (Sep 21, 2008)

Actually, I was kind of hoping that someone else had heard the reasons behind it.  The best that I know, it is just to encourage proper breathing, why it is audible and in the phrases that it is, I do not know.


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## JoelD (Sep 21, 2008)

For those that don't know, i am also a federation member and most of the folks in our dojang make the 'shoop'/'cha' when doing hyung. Funny thing though, i dont recall my Sa Bom ever saying that you are supposed to do it that way. At this point for me it has become less audible (except when specifically called for in a hyung i.e. like in Chil Sung Il Ro). ill have to ask about that next time when i am in class. I am thinking that perhaps at the lower levels it is just a good way to to be very specific with beginners on how you need to breathe properly during hyung (as Craig stated above). As ive said elsewhere on this forum i have a hard time with making sure i am breathing correctly... not so much now after a couple years of training (i still have more trouble with it during sparring than anything) but now i feel i dont need to be so 'over the top' with it. Also, Even though i dont audiby breathe as much anymore my Sa Bom has not told me to go back to doing it.


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## MBuzzy (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm kind of with Joel here....my breathing has become much less audible.  I make an exhaling sound, but that's about it.  I have been told to use the syllables specifically though.  Part of my reason, honestly is that I feel a bit silly making the shoop/cha noise and all of the other audible breathing sounds


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## Tez3 (Sep 22, 2008)

Before I did TSD I was doing Wado Ryu karate and entering quite a few kata competitions, at several were students from other clubs who would breathe very audibly while doing their kata and others like us who wouldn't. At several competitions we noticed that those who made a lot of noice while performing often got higher marks yet their kata wasn't noticably any better than others in fact sometimes it was actually worse. We asked around various judges why this was and were told that when they make audible breathing noises it shows they were working harder and therefore putting more into their kata!! Well, you can imagaine what we thought!


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## JoelD (Sep 22, 2008)

Tez3 said:


> We asked around various judges why this was and were told that when they make audible breathing noises it shows they were working harder and therefore putting more into their kata!! Well, you can imagaine what we thought!


 

Funny you say that, Tez. Back when I went to college for Classical Guitar Performance I was always taught that when done correctly all should appear effortless. When i began practicing Soo Bahk Do just a shade over 2 years ago my Sa Bom said the same thing of the martial arts. What thiose judges said doesnt make any sense to me.


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## Tez3 (Sep 22, 2008)

JoelD said:


> Funny you say that, Tez. Back when I went to college for Classical Guitar Performance I was always taught that when done correctly all should appear effortless. When i began practicing Soo Bahk Do just a shade over 2 years ago my Sa Bom said the same thing of the martial arts. What thiose judges said doesnt make any sense to me.


 
Exactly! it should be like swans swimming, serene on the surface but paddling like hell underneath!
It's similiar I think to kumite competitions where competitors kiai loudly whether they have hit their opponent or missed, to try and fool the ref/judges that they have scored. It's a 'look at me, how hard hard I'm working' thing.
The only time we encourage 'heavy breathing'  is for beginners doing pad work (similiar to boxers) as they tend to forget to breath, once they have got into the habit of breathing they stop. That and Chil Sung Il Ro as someone has already said but even then it's not noisy just more audible. Seems odd to have to remind people to breathe though lol!


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## cdunn (Sep 22, 2008)

Since a lot of people will hold their breath at silly times, the lower color belts tend to get pushed to breathe audibly. Sometimes the habit will hold, but they try to break it as they get to be higher ranking. 

Personally, I'll probably never be able to move enough air through my nose to not breathe through my mouth at all, but that doesn't mean I have to make a ton of noise as I go about it.


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