# Fired C7



## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 18, 2004)

Started Small Arms Training on the C7 Assault Rifle on Thursday. It was tons of fun. I didn't shoot as well as I would have liked, but I outshot all the people who were on the range with me, which was surprising, considering I've never handled a real rifle before. I scored 53 out of 89, which works out to about 60%. Our targets ranged from 50 metres, shooting full auto bursts, to 300 metres (semi obviously.) I was impressed with the weapon, (as if I knew a lot about shooting AR's before ,) and the Elcan C-79 optical scope performed extremely well, once I realized I should adjust it for the 300 metre shots. We did all kinds of drills...snap shots on multiple targets, grouping exercises, a run-down...It was great fun. I'm thinking of taking the Restricted Firearms Handling course, so I can get a Possession and Acquistion License for restricted weapons. If I can afford it at some point fairly soon, I'll try to pick up an AR-15 D) so I can practice at a range on a similar weapon. The army will be so proud of me!  My only complaint is that we did a lot of shooting from prone and my back is tight on the right side (I'm a right handed shooter.) Anybody have any quick stretches or after-the-fact tips to reduce the strain, or will my body just kind of get used to shooting from that position?


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## dearnis.com (Jan 18, 2004)

yes, your body will get used to it, but the following will help...
Hot shower & ibuprofen
forward/backward bending
trunk rotations and twists
bridges if you can do them

not hard or intense on the stretches, just enough to get the kinks out.

60% is not bad for, as you put it, your first time out with a real rifle.  just dont be satisfied with it; set a goal for your next session and meet it!


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 18, 2004)

Cool, I'll have to give those a try. Thanks.

Never fear, I'm definitely not going to sit on a 60% and just be satisfied. I'm looking for a 5 to 10 percent increase in each week of training. I think that's pretty reasonable, as we have, I BELIEVE S.A.T. on 4 of my training weeks for this course.


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## theletch1 (Jan 19, 2004)

Handle the weapon as much as possible even when not firing.  The more used to the feel that your body becomes the better you will shoot.  As with an MA weapon the C7 should become as much of an extension of your body as possible.  Get used to the prone position.  It's the most stable position you'll find.  In the Marines the qualifying course was what was called the KD or known distance course.  Standing and kneeling at the 200 yd line, sitting at the 300 yd line and prone at the 500 yd line.  While I qualified expert every time I had to qual, the 500 prone was my  money maker and allowed me to make up for shots that were off at the other positions.  The M-16 was a "fun" weapon to shoot.  It just didn't have enough of a kick for my taste.


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## tmanifold (Jan 19, 2004)

Out of 89? Infantry Standard? Spent 6 years there myself.

My guess is that if you are sore it is because you were forcing yourself into position. The recoil combined with the awkward position are probably to blame. Remember your principles of marksmenship mainly:
Weapon must point at the target naturally and;
position must be firm enough to support the weapon.

Try the test from the prone. Get in position then close your eyes. Relax and let the rifle lower. Without opening your eyes, raise the rifle again. Open your eyes and you should be pointing at the target. If you are not, you are not in the proper postion.

This will help your accuracy as well as the pain. If I recall a 53 is a fail (57 is a pass I believe give or take 1). Not bad for your first time, I even failed off my first infantry course for my shooting so don't feel bad. However, by properly applying the marksmenship principles (especially the above 2), I was shooting in and around marksman level (68) when I remustered out.

Tony


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Jan 19, 2004)

Yeah, we weren't actually shooting to qualify, it was our introductory shooting class. First time I actually fired the weapon. I'm sure by the time I actually have to qualify, I'll be shooting fine. Thanks for the tips, though. I think I'll try the eye closing thing next time I'm on the range. Sounds like there might actually be something to it.


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## tmanifold (Jan 19, 2004)

That trick really does help. It help you see if you are naturally pointing at the target or not. Another way to tell is that after your follow through your aiming post should return to the original point of aim.

Tony


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## tmanifold (Feb 10, 2004)

So you gone back to the range yet?


Keep us informed 

Tony


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Feb 12, 2004)

Not yet, I've been itching to, though. This past weekend we did a ton of safety and handling stuff, loading and unloading drills and the like...stuff like that. Oh, and cleaning, obviously. I discovered that I can do a complete detailed strip and reassemble the rifle in 2 minutes, 49 seconds. That was the first time I had to do it and I was faster than the rest of my section, so I'm betting with a little practice I can get crazy quick at it. It's obviously a more useful skill in the barracks than on the field, but it's a conversation starter!  And anybody can field strip in no time flat, it's not hard to push two take-down pins and pull the bolt carrier assembly out.

Ack! I just went and checked my course schedule. We don't shoot again until next month! NO! Ah, well, the classroom stuff is important, too, I guess.

I'll try to keep you up to speed on whether or not I get to be a better shot!


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## loki09789 (Feb 12, 2004)

Where is your climbing gym, I use to live at the Niagara Climbing Center here in NY across the border.

Paul M.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Feb 13, 2004)

loki09789 said:
			
		

> Where is your climbing gym, I use to live at the Niagara Climbing Center here in NY across the border.
> 
> Paul M.



Generally when I climb indoors it is at Spike's (Weston Street, London)


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## theletch1 (Feb 14, 2004)

_""It's obviously a more useful skill in the barracks than on the field, but it's a conversation starter!  And anybody can field strip in no time flat, it's not hard to push two take-down pins and pull the bolt carrier assembly out.""_

It's actually a more useful skill in the field.  The M-16 is notorious for jamming when it gets fouled with a little extra carbon.  In the field cleaning is even more important than in the barracks.  The barracks cleaning is for inspection.  The field cleaning is for survival when time is a factor.  Let's say you're sitting in your fighting hole, cleaning your weapon and the enemy starts an attack.  The ability to get that weapon back together and operational as quickly as possible is what's gonna get you and your buddies home in one piece.  That was a good time for a first try.  Keep working it and you'll have it down to around a minute or less no time.


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## tmanifold (Feb 15, 2004)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> It's actually a more useful skill in the field.  The M-16 is notorious for jamming when it gets fouled with a little extra carbon.  In the field cleaning is even more important than in the barracks.  The barracks cleaning is for inspection.  The field cleaning is for survival when time is a factor.




No kidding, You will soon learn that when you have a ten minute break you clean your rifle for 5 and then sleep for the other 5. No two greater skill will you learn than the ability to clean your rifle fast and fall asleep faster. With practice you can do both at the same time 

Tony


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## theletch1 (Feb 18, 2004)

Sleep, glorious sleep.  You can always tell a vet by the ability to fall asleep anywhere, anytime and wake up immediately and get going with out the grogginess you'd normally see.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Feb 25, 2004)

theletch1 said:
			
		

> _""It's obviously a more useful skill in the barracks than on the field, but it's a conversation starter!  And anybody can field strip in no time flat, it's not hard to push two take-down pins and pull the bolt carrier assembly out.""_
> 
> It's actually a more useful skill in the field.  The M-16 is notorious for jamming when it gets fouled with a little extra carbon.  In the field cleaning is even more important than in the barracks.  The barracks cleaning is for inspection.  The field cleaning is for survival when time is a factor.  Let's say you're sitting in your fighting hole, cleaning your weapon and the enemy starts an attack.  The ability to get that weapon back together and operational as quickly as possible is what's gonna get you and your buddies home in one piece.  That was a good time for a first try.  Keep working it and you'll have it down to around a minute or less no time.



All I meant was I'm not sitting there with my rifle sitting in fourteen separate components to clean in the field. When I strip outside, I'll clean by section, bolt carrier assembly, then upper receiver, then lower receiver. I'm not going to leave my entire weapon apart in inspection lay-out.

By the way...holy crap. Less than a minute? It'll be a little while before I can pull a trick like that.


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## theletch1 (Feb 26, 2004)

Crazy Chihuahua said:
			
		

> All I meant was I'm not sitting there with my rifle sitting in fourteen separate components to clean in the field. When I strip outside, I'll clean by section, bolt carrier assembly, then upper receiver, then lower receiver. I'm not going to leave my entire weapon apart in inspection lay-out.
> 
> By the way...holy crap. Less than a minute? It'll be a little while before I can pull a trick like that.


I understand that you're cleaning by section while in the field.  I used to do it the same way.  Think of the inspection cleaning as a kata in which you perfect the movements as a group so that you can better pull the sub-movements (field cleaning) out of the overall cleaning.  Under one minute will come to you fairly easily once you create the muscle memory in your hands to do it.  Wait til you get to do it in the gas chamber with no mask.  Lot's and lot's of fun. :uhyeah:


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## loki09789 (Feb 27, 2004)

Call me ignorant but I am guessing that the C7 is either the same as or a varient of the M16A2.  Please clarify for me.

PaulM


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## theletch1 (Feb 27, 2004)

The c-7 is an "almost" exact replica of the M-16.  There is a thread in this particular forum which I started "Assault weapon design" I think that has a link to a site that has a lot of different military weapons.  It has a photo and specs for both the C-7 and the M-16.  Also has a lot of cool concept weapons on it.


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## Crazy Chihuahua (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm told there are eighty variations in design between the M16 and the C7. I haven't bothered to look for most of them, though!


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## theletch1 (Mar 1, 2004)

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as44-e.htm


			
				Crazy Chihuahua said:
			
		

> I'm told there are eighty variations in design between the M16 and the C7. I haven't bothered to look for most of them, though!


Give this link a shot.  It lists the C-7 as a slightly modified M16-A2 bulit under license from Colt by a Canadian manufacturer.  The C-8 has more mods to it than does the C-7 but as I've not held either of the Canadian versions in hand I really can't dispute all the differences or even figure what they may consider to be a "difference".


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## tmanifold (Jun 6, 2004)

http://www.diemaco.com/c7a2.htm

The Diemaco version of the AR15 is one of the best in the world. Here is the link


tony


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## Stick Dummy (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm jumping in a bit late here .........


If you're still having problems with the prone positon shooting RHS

 Try bending body to the left below the waist instead of positioning directly behind the rifle.

 Lower buttstock weld from center of shoulder "pocket" to pectoral group to lower rifle/sight centerline taking stress off your neck and lower back. 

Are you using a sling, or just freehanding the rifle while shooting?


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