# How long is takes to reach black belt



## Manny (Jun 21, 2012)

What's the time it takes to become a black belt for a regular guy having three classes of karate per week?

Manny


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## Flying Crane (Jun 21, 2012)

Hi Manny, 

there are way too many variables at play to have a real answer to this question.  The answer will vary for every person.

It depends on how well a student "gets it".  Some students are more gifted than others and they grasp the concepts and develop the skills more quickly.  Other students have no aptitude for it and will NEVER grasp it, even if they train for 500 years.  Most people are somewhere in the middle of that continuum.

It depends on how much time the student practices outside of class, and the level of quality in that training. 

It depends on the quality of the instruction and the quality of the training sessions in those classes as well.

I've seen your other thread where you propose a training schedule of roughly five years to shodan, with roughly one year between promotions.  I understand that you are looking for a platform to enforce a higher standard of training, not rushing the students thru the curriculum, taking your time and getting the students to develop their skills solidly before moving on.  I applaud that effort.  For some students, five years may be longer than they need, for other students five years is nowhere near enough time.

In my view, the standards that are held by most martial arts schools are dreadfully low, embarrasingly low.  I understand your effort to raise the bar and insist that your students step up to a higher level.  Do not be dissuaded from this goal.  I see nothing wrong with your approach, just understand that in some (many?) cases five years may not be enough time and don't be afraid to hold it for longer than that if appropriate.  And don't be afraid to enforce your standards.


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## Manny (Jun 22, 2012)

Flying Crane said:


> Hi Manny,
> 
> there are way too many variables at play to have a real answer to this question.  The answer will vary for every person.
> 
> ...



You got me very well. In the dojang I train the average children/guy gets his/her shodan afther 3 years of training, in very few cases (the gifted as you mentioned) it's a good time, but in the average 3 years is not, simply the cuality is not there.

I know a judo sensei (old school) that his highest level student in the kid-teen level is a 15 years old boy who has trained 7 years and he is now a brown belt and candidate to shodan maybe in one more year. The judo sensei told me he has this kid since 7 and that this boy has learnt very well.

For my, having children or teens or even men  and women testing every two-three months for a kup is too little, and yes if it was in my hands I will test my students every 6 months for kup, this means the exchange of blet wopuld take one full year, the belts we have at dojang are: White, Yellow, Green, Blue, Maroon, Red and Black.

Maybe I am asking to much and maybe 5 years to become a black belt is too much FOR THE AVERAGE student, but what I am very true is that 3 years is too little time. Again there could be a very nice student or a gifthed one that with alot of hard work and dedication could be a BB in 3 years and maybe a little less.

I want to know in okinawan or japanese karate what is the average time for the average student to become a BB.

Manny


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## Flying Crane (Jun 22, 2012)

just keep your standards high.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 22, 2012)

Manny said:


> You got me very well. In the dojang I train the average children/guy gets his/her shodan afther 3 years of training, in very few cases (the gifted as you mentioned) it's a good time, but in the average 3 years is not, simply the cuality is not there.
> 
> I know a judo sensei (old school) that his highest level student in the kid-teen level is a 15 years old boy who has trained 7 years and he is now a brown belt and candidate to shodan maybe in one more year. The judo sensei told me he has this kid since 7 and that this boy has learnt very well.
> 
> ...



I think you're focusing far too much on time in grade. I think this is a mistake, especially for geup ranks. Set your standards and stick to them, but test and promote when students are ready, not when they've served their time.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Jul 5, 2012)

Well, usually, in a traditional dojo, it takes 4-5 years to get to black belt. Most of the times it all depends on the individual on how long it takes them depending on the pace they are able to pick things up, if they are here in class most of times or absent quite often, it also depends on attitude in and outside of the dojo and if you are able to live clean. If you smoke, there is not way you are going to black belt until you are willing to quit smoking.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 5, 2012)

How long does it take to dig a hole?  The answer is, it all depends on the person digging, and the nature of the hole to be dug.  In other words, no one good answer.

In my dojo, it can vary a great deal.  I am Ni-Kyu, and I have just under 4 years training in.  I train three times a week, 2 1/2 hours a go, plus assisting with the kids' classes twice a week.  If I am lucky and earn Ik-Kyu by this fall, I will still have another year to go to Sho-Dan after that - at a minimum.  So I figure 6 years for me.  Others earn it sooner, it takes others longer.  And of course my dojo is not your dojo.  Our requirements are not your requirements.  And I am not you.


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## Gentle Fist (Jul 5, 2012)

10 minutes!

And if you call in the next half hour I will throw in a second black belt for half the price!  And that's not all!!!  You also get a Bruce Lee fanny pack just for calling!!!

%-}


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## SuperFLY (Jul 6, 2012)

At our school, in an ideal environment it'll take you roughly 4 years from white to black.

that's grading every 3 months up to 1st kyu which you'll grade for at 3-6 months depending on your skill (to brag i graded at 3 months, heh) and then a year min. until you take your black belt. the school have introduced another belt which is a kind of 0.5kyu which you take at 6months, halfway between 1st and black. its a mini black belt grading and is designed so that our chief instructor can assess your progress as you train for black. in other words, however good you were then, he expects you to be better 

this of course assumes you'll be training sufficiently to be able to grade. if you're not deemed to be up to standard by your sensei you wont be put forward to grade. hence why i say 'in an ideal environment'

annoyingly i missed my black belt grading as i had done my shoulder in (trapped nerve in neck) so im having to wait until oct for mine so my minor 3 month advantage has gone but still.. not the end of the world.


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## kitkatninja (Jul 6, 2012)

Manny said:


> What's the time it takes to become a black belt for a regular guy having three classes of karate per week?
> 
> Manny



I agree with what's been said, it can vary greatly.  For most, it can be anywhere from 3-8 years, with some taking longer (and there's nothing wrong with that).  There are exceptions, eg Kanazawa Sensei received his Shodan in Shotokan karate in under two years, Joe Lewis received his in less than a year. 

The thing is that "black belt" means different things to different organisation and individuals - hence gradings are different even between two associations that do the same art/style.  There are no international standards that every organisation/club adhere's to.



Gentle Fist said:


> 10 minutes!
> 
> And if you call in the next half hour I will throw in a second black belt for half the price!  And that's not all!!!  You also get a Bruce Lee fanny pack just for calling!!!
> 
> %-}



How true is this


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## rickster (Jul 6, 2012)

I wonder how 4 years became a norm?

Is this like High School or College?


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## TimoS (Jul 6, 2012)

Black Belt Jedi said:


> If you smoke, there is not way you are going to black belt until you are willing to quit smoking.


Or not... I read in another thread here that e.g. Shinyu Gushi sensei smokes and he is, I believe, 8. or 9. dan in Uechi ryu. So, in other words, you shouldn't generalize. 


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## Tony Dismukes (Jul 6, 2012)

Dirty Dog has it.  Develop a clear idea in your mind of what a 1st degree black belt means to you, for your school, in terms of skill, knowledge, capability or whatever other criteria you might have.  Then promote your students when they reach that level, whether it be in 2 years or 10 years.


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## grumpywolfman (Jul 6, 2012)

For it to be given, it will depend on who will be giving it to you and what that represents to that person(s) or organization. Does it represent a rank of an individual who understands, and can perform the system masterfully? Or is it a fast tract for the owner to have you at a rank that can start taking over the drive-through workouts at his McDojo Center for him? 

My advice would be to look closely at the black belts in the school or organization that you are affiliated with. Do they know the true applications of the individual techniques of the katas? Do the higher ranks still chamber their kicks or broadcast their strikes with tells? When they spar, can you truly see your style of martial art being used, or does it look like an amatueur night of mediocre kickboxing?

The bottom line for me, is when you hold that black belt in your hands, will *you *feel that it honors what it is supposed to represent? To me, a black belt represents a Masters Degree in skill and knowledge of that particular martial art. The time that it takes you as an individual to reach that level then would depend upon you: _your level of dedication, and commitment to learn that system effectively_ - don't settle for less than that.


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## Black Belt Jedi (Jul 8, 2012)

TimoS said:


> Or not... I read in another thread here that e.g. Shinyu Gushi sensei smokes and he is, I believe, 8. or 9. dan in Uechi ryu. So, in other words, you shouldn't generalize.



Well quite frankly that's not surprising to me. There are many great Martial Artists of the past, but they are not great role models. I heard stories of Chotoku Kyan who was an alcoholic and a womanizer who goes to bars and get into fights to test his skills as part of his training, and he encouraged his students to do the same. 

My personal choice is that since I teach kids Karate, I should live a clean life, be straight edge.


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## TimoS (Jul 8, 2012)

Black Belt Jedi said:


> I heard stories of Chotoku Kyan who was an alcoholic and a womanizer who goes to bars and get into fights to test his skills as part of his training, and he encouraged his students to do the same.


On the other hand, Kyan died shortly after WW2 from malnutrition because he gave all of his food to children. 


> My personal choice is that since I teach kids Karate, I should live a clean life, be straight edge.


That is your choice, but beside the point. The point is that you said that in a traditional dojo, you can't get a black belt if you smoke and while that may be true at your dojo (don't know, don't really care), it most certainly is not the case in many other traditional dojo.


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## Daikenen (Aug 29, 2012)

It's true some dojo promote based on time in grade (I find this to be quite prevalent in my area unfortunately) and in some dojo you will only be asked to test when you're ready. Still in others the student may request to test at the next grading, it usually just comes down to the individual dojo and instructors unless superceded by an organization. I first started Isshin ryu in December of '92 right after I turned 9. I didn't receive my shodan until May of 2006. From age 13-16 I was forced to do a school sport and could no longer continue with my formal martial arts training. When I returned the instructor said I had improved in many areas and lost little of my kata retention and tested two months later for the next kyu. The only other break from formal training was from March '04-'05 when I was in Iraq. I never asked to be promoted (other than my very first test) and as my instructor got older and the classes got smaller it just wasn't at the top of our priorities. In my area my instructor is well respected as a martial artist and instructor in the martial arts community and never promoted anyone who didn't deserve it (IMHO). As a side note I also went straight from Sankyu to Shodan (Sankyu=June 2000, Shodan=May 2006)

In contrast to this it took 2 yrs to receive my Shodan with Yamashigi Aikijujitsu skipping 3 of the kyu ranks. In this same class others with or without previous experience have taken up to 5+yrs for Shodan. It really depends mostly on instructor and student unless superceded like I stated earlier.


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## FabianosKarate (Oct 24, 2012)

Manny said:


> Maybe I am asking to much and maybe 5 years to become a black belt is too much FOR THE AVERAGE student, but what I am very true is that 3 years is too little time. Again there could be a very nice student or a gifthed one that with alot of hard work and dedication could be a BB in 3 years and maybe a little less.
> 
> ...
> 
> Manny



I think 5 years is very reasonable. A karate school's job (well...the Sensei's job) is to prepare the student for defending himself and for bettering his life and the life of others. Is that something that can be done in 1 year...no, 3 years - maybe. 5 years is a more realistic timeframe in my eyes as it allows the student (adult or child) to mature even further and show the appreciation and dedication for the art.


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