# My Ninjutsu experience



## TigerLove (Oct 20, 2009)

First, i hope post is not to long. If it is, delete it, i understand.

Here is my ninjutsu experience, which i want to share with you, and i hope somebody will
comment because i am very interested in your opinnion.

So...

I heard that some ninjutsu master 
 camed from india in my town to teach ninjutsu. I 
 also heard he wan't train anybody, but it wans't problem
 for me to enter his dojo. He told that he was 10 years in 
 india learning ninjutsu and meditation. That was ALL we knowed about him.
 I checked, he talks true - at least part he was in India (i checked his passport in police). 
 He was very misterious and weird man.

I didn't want miss a chance to train ninjutsu, because
 in my country it's one of the "secret" things, what some 
 dream about, like me. I always wondering how it would be nice to live
 in some big country where i can train what i want.
 We started to train.

 He told that we will train like almost nobody, and that after 5 trainings numbers of students 
 will dramatically decrease. Well, at first training there was twenty of us, at third training four of us. 
 And that number didn't change until the end of our classes.

 Why. Well, here is description from few trainings.

 First, second, and third training:

 He showed us some basic moves and stances, explained ninjutsu philosophy and history. Are dojo
 was some old leaved building, half destroyed, in totally dark, and only light was few candles.
 It was cold and ****** to train in that conditions (but not for me).

 Fourth training:

 He started to climb at the top of the building. We followed him upstairs. Than he sad: I go down. Who want, can follow
 me. But, he didn't go downstairs - he climbed down by outer wall of the building (third floor). Sixteen goes down, four of
 us followed him. I **** my pants off. He started to run. We run some about one hout, pretty fast. We stoped in front of old
 castle. It was scary castle, empty, ruined, cold, ******, full of animals, ruined stairs, holes, and so on. Hi said let's go inside:
 there was so much dark that you wouldn't see white cat in front of you. He lighted a battery and taked us to top floor. He said, you
 got two one rule and one goal. Rule: don't separate. Goal: get out of the castle. He turned baterry of and dissapeared.
 Ohhhh, how scary it was. Girl alomost started cry. We taked each other for hands and start moving torward. Veeeeery slowly.
 I was first. I feelt no floor under my first leg. Stoped and throwed some litlle rock there. It took about 2 seconds to fall down.
 Imagine how ****** would it be if we hurried, we all be death. We said that this man is maniac and we will call police after we get out.
 I tooked about hour to leave castle (opposite to 5 minutes entering it), with few close - death times. Girl cried all the time. When we leaved
 he waited out for us. He said: Before you run away from me, tell me, did you learn something from this? We said no. He said:
 Yes, you did. Never leave man in trouble. Kill your ego. If any of you decided to go alone he would be at hospital or dead now.
 You are real team. We know he was right...he let us go home. I told my parrents we just talked at training.

 Fifth training: Four of us. We went to the forest, found a good place, and do tehniques for on two hours. Than, he founded a tree
 which looks impossible to climb on it. Very impossible. He sad - each one of you must climb to that tree. We figured
 if one of would stand on the floor, and one on his shoulders, and one more at his shoulders, we would be a man-tree and last one
 could climb to tree among us. We did it, and exchanged 4 times so every of us can climb. He let us home then. We were broken.

 Then, next training, he told us we will do an shuriken defense. He supposed to attack us with plastic shuriken. But he didn't.
 With no explanation how to defense, he started throwing REAL shurikens at us, and we were empty handed and no shield. For 10 minutes.

 Next training, when we meet, he gaved us name of some street we never heard of, and said: you have 15 minutes to get there.
 We founded city plan, and realized there is no chance for us to get there for ten minutes. Every of us goes different way.
 I get there first because i stealed some bike on my way (i bringed it back after training). He said he is suprised with me.
 We did some tehniques and go home.

 Next training, after tehniques (btw, we did tehniques bruttaly and near bone breaking, and he didn't teach us how - we should figure it alone)
 we were jumping from some really high places, walked on edge of skycrappers,fighted with real shurikens, and clombed to impossible 
 places.

 In town there started rumours that we were crazy and not normal because doing that. But we didn't give up.

 Later, we learned: how to spy, how to poison and kill man with poison that dissapear from body in 5 minutes, how to gain informations
through piramidal structure, where are most dangerous body pressure points etc.

We trained for a year, four times a week. It' lucky we lived so long, looked from this point.

Maybe we were silly and crazy, but we learned respect self and others, and also most ipmortant help others.
I breaked all my fears: from high; from speed, from dark, from everything. Not just breaked them, but taked control over them.

From then, my life changed pretty much, and my look and feel for martial arts.

I don't feel sorry for things we done, but anyway sometimes i ask my self was it reasonable to get in life danger situtations
with no unavoidable reason.

We didn't have any ranking, but sensei before leaving said we can consider us Taijutsu 1. dan.

He leaved without saying goodbye.

It was my experience with Ninjutsu, if i can call it like that. And master went back to India.

What you think about this? Anybody with similary crazy master?


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## MJS (Oct 20, 2009)

What do I think about this?  Honestly, at the moment, I'm speechless.  Actually, I could probably think of a few things to say, but none are proper for the forum.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 20, 2009)

MJS said:


> What do I think about this?  Honestly, at the moment, I'm speechless.  Actually, I could probably think of a few things to say, but none are proper for the forum.



I'm speechless too at the moment.


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## The Last Legionary (Oct 20, 2009)

What's brown, soft, squishy, sometimes solid, sometimes liquid, sometimes has corn in it, and smells really bad?

Besides this story I mean?


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## TheStudent (Oct 20, 2009)

Given this day and age, I have to assume one of two things.  I'm not accusing, just pointing out the only options.
1) you made this up.
2) This is a true story.

If you made this up, I feel sorry for you, since it should be painfully obvious there are very knowledgible and experienced people on this forum that will shishkabob your story.

If this is true, I feel sorry for you and your friends.  There are tons of resources available (books, videos, websites, etc.) that will give you a realistic picture of ninjutsu.  This story sounds more like you were out LARPing and should have known better.


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## Omar B (Oct 20, 2009)

Haha.  Fake.


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## J Ellis (Oct 20, 2009)

Didn't Ashida Kim Sensei tell you acknowledging the existence of the society's secret training sessions was punishable by death?

It's been nice knowing you.

Joel


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## TigerLove (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, story is true, and you people acted like idiots in this thread. And, no, you have no reason to be sorry about me, because it was beautiful experience to me.

I don't see why someone should laugh at me because this kind of training, but obviouslly i am not so open minded and smart as you are, so i can't understand these moron replies to my message.

Also, feel sorry for you. 

Cheers.


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## xJOHNx (Oct 20, 2009)

You don't have to feel sorry for us, I don't speak for most of us. I think most of us are happy with just training in Taijutsu and some weaponry. You know, training something usefull.


But to be honest, I've learned a thing from your story. 
That if I'm trapped in a haunted castle, I need to turn on my flashlight, before I start walking.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, if you have it. If you don't, you seem to me like the choosen one to not go out of the castle. And, remember Murphy!! You know if found yourself in dark castle, no, you wan't have a light, most probably.

 It's very useful, it have been for me. And things i learned there, i don't know where else will i learn it. One thing is imagine how it would be to do some stuff, and other thing is DO it.

 I don't say i am some ninjutsu master or something like that (yea right). I am just saying we had a training where we were in high stress and danger situations, left on or own. We can completely throw Ninjutsu out of this story if somebody ego is hurted. We may call it just survival training.

Necessary? Well not, i am not going to war (hope so), i am still computer programmer training martial arts, not warrior. But, if it isn't necessary it doesn't mean it can't be useful, or at least interesting. 

You call it useless? Well you can't imagine how useful it was for many stuff. At the end, special forces train that way, in that kind of situtations. Cavers? Also, ask them is that kind of training useless.

Still, i don't see for any reasonable reason for laughing at me (considering i am talkin with someone civilized).


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## xJOHNx (Oct 21, 2009)

I was having some sort of laugh, but I will answer this seriously.

When, ever in your life will you see the need to use this training?
Climbing off a building? Use the stairs (elevators make you fat)

Walking in a dark castle? Most of the times castles are completely off-limits. So either you are breaking the law, or else you are in a place you should not be. I presume you don't live in a castle? Compare it to your own house? Probably not, you know your way around subconciously most of the times.

Getting somewhere in time? Drive faster or leave earlier.

Dodging shuriken? Never seen a ninja on the streets (although that means they are good at what they do).

All these situations were unneccesarily dangerous for you and your friends. What if someone got killed, your "sensei" would have had blood on his hands and most likely run at the first sign of trouble.
Train smart and if you want to toughen up, go all contact taijutsu.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, we almost agree now (see, all you needed to do was answer seriously and     civilized not laughing with no reason).

Like i said, i am computer programmer training martial arts, and not warrior. I wan't use this things in life, probably never. But, that doesn't mean it isn't interesting, to see and do some stuff.

Plus, since my six years, i fear of heights, of dark, of bugs, and combination of that. If wasn't for that training, maybe i would have that fears all my life. When i first camed, i couldn't climb to ladders without shaking. I couldn't step into dark without panic. Now i can be chilly there like in my badroom slepping.

Do you know how much self confidence since then am i having? Much,  much more.

This training hepled me in much more stuff..i wish i have proper surrounding to share it.

And, you are right about sensei: at first sign of trouble he would be in problems or runed away. As i said, he was weird. And yes, we breaked the low entering in some places. But, it wasn't law, it was "law". So not problem at all.


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## xJOHNx (Oct 21, 2009)

Let me make it clear. We don't agree, I'm just being polite.

I still laugh with the story, because it is so absurd.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Can you tell me what is apsurd here? I really don't understand.  

This is nothing but simply survival training (except some taijutsu).

What's so weird about survival trainings? Jesus.


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## Chris Parker (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi TigerLove,

Well, let me see if I can shed some light on why you have been getting the responces you have. I'll take this from your first post here (my responces in blue).



TigerLove said:


> First, i hope post is not to long. If it is, delete it, i understand.
> 
> Hey, length is something I keep inflicting on others, so I have no problem with that...
> 
> ...


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## runnerninja (Oct 21, 2009)

Class story.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

@Chris Parker

Thank you for the post, sad to say, but your post is only smart and good response to my story.

Well, i did a mistake sayin it was ninjutsu training - it was survival training with some taijutsu and koppojutsu work, so i said ninjutsu and i said wrong.
Probably this is far far from what ninjutsu is.

About sensei, his organization is Bujinkan. We visited his club hi started in Serbia, which has about fifty students. Also, he showed to us some pictures from training in Japan and India. Also, he is pretty well known around here (but yes, all people say for him he is weird). Yes, i didn't wrote this at first post, but then i wroted what i know about him, and i am writing what others know. I think he couldn't fake it all, plus his Koppojutsu and Taijutsu knowledge was very good, and i heard that from many sides. I said he lived in India and he is weird, but not that he is someone who anybody never heard of. I believe in his skill and think he is not a lyer.

About stories, i meant that often after training he told us some
usefull and nice storied about life, often with animals in main rolls (if this mean something to you). 

About shurikens, i can't say exact dimensions because you have different measure systems and i don't know them. But they were very very sharp, and made of metal. And they are real, well they can heart someone badly - i think it's inaff to call'em real. There was shurikens wuth 4 stars nad with 6 stars.

Piramidal structure -  i think of way and tactics about collecting informations. You know what i mean.

Poisons. Offcourse we didn't try it. But yes, offcourse there are some chemical supstances dangerous for humans, and hard to discover after use. I think nobody can deny it, no matter learned it in school chemistry classes, or way like this.

How i learn to respect others in trouble. Well, by team work. There is no allusions on team work - it is or it isn't. 

About your last part, yes, me too considers this survival training, and not ninjutsu training (but i can deny we did taijutsu and koppojutsu).

Maybe conversation wouldn't go at this silly way if i just wrote "My survival training experience".

And, i am also happy because i pulled out something positive for me out of that experience.

I am just so sorry because people here makes me now shame, i feel like idiot., and think i didn't deserved it. I didn't expect that at all.

About my years, i am 21 - and i live alone. But that doesn't mean that my parents doesn't ask me what i do on trainings. They are worried when i go  just sparring, so i decided to don't tell em' this. And my location dissapeared because i experinted something with my profile, it's back now.

Ok, it's clear to me: people here now think i am an idiot. Ok, my guilty because exposing this, i could see that it will end up this way.


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## Chris Parker (Oct 21, 2009)

Really? He was Bujinkan? Hmm, he's throwing a fair bit of fantasy in then, it's not exactly what you get in Bujinkan schools. No wonder he gets considered "weird". But your story didn't read like any Bujinkan teacher, so that is probably why people immediately went to the conclusion that it was far from legitimate. And as I said, this is a very, uh, "_unorthodox" _approach to say the least.

To let you know with the shuriken, though, the most common in the Ninjutsu community (if we can use that term) is the Senban Shuriken, or Teppan. These are four pointed flat metal discs, shaped very much like squares with the edges scalloped, and a square hole in the centre. The thing to know here, though, and a good way to tell the real ones from the more common store-bought fake ones, is that they are incredibly light. The ones in stores are not. The first time I held some authentic Senban shuriken I was amazed, they were about a third or a quarter the weight of what I was used to. Just for your information, there.

I think that almost no matter what you had called the story, it would have had similar responces. The entire thing reads like the kind of irresponsible, unethical, unprofessional, dangerous practices that people with heads full of fantasy engage in, and give everyone in martial arts a very bad name. However, the Ninjutsu community tends to get this kind of thing a bit more than other martial arts, so it has simply happened quicker than it would have.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, i believe he was. And also i believe he is throwed some fantasy in. Yes, i to think that this is not exatcly what i get in Bujinkan school. Yes, my teacher _maybe_ is faker, and that's why my whole story is fake together with me??? 
I really dislike this approach.

Shurikens, well they were like you say, except they wasn't so much easy. We had only two shurikens which were incredibly light. Others were their copy but much more weight.

Well, that was irresponsible, unethical, unprofessional, dangerous practices that people with heads full of fantasy engage in. And, besides what i mentioned i learned, i want to add that sometimes only way to understand that your fantasies are unreal and dangerous, is to try them. I got my fantasies become real, and i realized why some things are called fantasies. I think it's very good lesson.

Still, i don't see why to making fun out of me here. Don't se nothing negative in my story and posts..


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## stephen (Oct 21, 2009)




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## Bill Mattocks (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm sorry you've had an unwelcoming experience so far here.  But in my short time here, I've seen several posts such as yours, and it appears that some people confuse fantasy with reality rather easily, or they think that MT is a discussion forum for people who prefer anime to martial arts training.

I admit that my first impulse on reading your initial post was to ask if you had brought your pokeman trading cards with you.  I'm glad I didn't post that response, and it appears you are not a young angst-ridden anime fan who lives in his parents basement and plays too many video games.  But you must understand that your initial approach made it appear that way to some of us.

I don't know what to make of your experience, except to say it sounds dangerous and not really what I consider martial arts training.  But everyone is different.  Welcome to MT.


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## MJS (Oct 21, 2009)

TigerLove said:


> Well, story is true, and you people acted like idiots in this thread. And, no, you have no reason to be sorry about me, because it was beautiful experience to me.
> 
> I don't see why someone should laugh at me because this kind of training, but obviouslly i am not so open minded and smart as you are, so i can't understand these moron replies to my message.
> 
> ...


 
LOL, first off, no need to feel sorry for me.  I don't train in any of the Kans.  However, I dont think it takes a rocket scientist to look at that story and think that there may be just a few things odd about it.  As for this guy being in the Bujinkan...well, given the fact that there're many Buj students here, I think that this guy, whoever it may be, would be easily verifiable.  

Yes, back in the 80s, when the Ninja boom was big, yes, there were alot of nutjob wanna-bes, running around, pretty much LARPING, ie: playing Ninja in the woods.  So, you come on here, with this story, and then you wonder why you got the replies you did.

Hey, if it was a wonderful experience, as you claim, then fine, so be it, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself.  Just understand that there are fakes out there.  If I were to look for training in the Kans, and I'm spending my hard earned money, then I want to make DAMN sure I'm getting my cash value.  If you dont care about that, then so be it, go train with whoever you want, without verifying anything.

You even said yourself that he was weird.  So, when others come on here saying the same thing, you get upset?  

Lets see...what else can I pick apart with that post....you mention that he showed you stances.  Ok, how do you know that what you were doing, was really Ninjutsu, if you've never seen it before or know anything about it?  Given the state of the arts today, with all the BS artists out there, I think its safe to say that to the untrained, anyone could show a 'stance' and pass it as something its not.

How to poison and disappear...umm...ok.  Thats interesting, because there is a Bujinkan dojo about 20min away from my house.  My Arnis inst. rented space for his classes, so I was present during many of the Bujinkan sessions.  Never saw anything on the subject of poison or disappearing in a poof of smoke.

My suggestion...if you're really interested in learning this art, I'd suggest researching for a legit teacher.

Best of luck to you in your journey.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes find a legit teacher and preferably someone with real training in the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinekan.


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## MJS (Oct 21, 2009)

TigerLove, you may want to check this out.
http://www.winjutsu.com/winlinks.html

and this:
http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site.pl

and this too:
http://jinenkan.com/en/Default.htm


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## xJOHNx (Oct 21, 2009)

@ Tigerlove: I might have come off as a bit off an a-hole in my last post. 
It is not because we disagree that I cannot be respectfull or polite to you.
I was just bugged by your way of immediatly taking an extremely agressive stance towards people that were not agreeing with you (and you still do).
Calling people idiots and saying that no-one contributes to this, really is that helpfull.

As various other have pointed out, you posted a story/true experience which is to say the least a bit silly. Especially in a forum which has multiple people training hard in ninjutsu every day.

Bassicly calling everyone an idiot because they don't agree with you is not a way to help yourself.


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## TheStudent (Oct 21, 2009)

Tiger,

What exactly were you wanting to get out of this post? You said you knew the person teaching you was crazy/wierd. Were you expecting others to say he was normal and that was the right way to do it? Because if you knew he was weird, then you should have expected the reactions you've gotten so far.

I agree with several others who have already posted to find a legitamate instructor.

I also would suggest you review your posts before you submit them in the future. Currently, your credibility isn't so high. Initially, you stated the teacher spent 10 years in India learning. Then you changed it to say He was from India, but learned it in Japan and India. This change was only AFTER others mentioned it was a Japanese art. You originally didn't say what system/ryu you were being taught, and that he wasn't training anyone. (But the class started with 20 and dropped to 4) Then you change it to say he has a dojo in Serbia with 50 students and that it was Bujinkan.

There are several other example of the same thing. These changes in your story tend to make it look like you not being entirely truthful.

I'm not sayiong you lied or made this up. Just pointing out the questionable nature that makes us respond the way we did. I do wish you well in your journey!


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## Pistolpete (Oct 21, 2009)

Chris Parker said:


> Hi TigerLove,
> 
> Well, let me see if I can shed some light on why you have been getting the responces you have. I'll take this from your first post here (my responces in blue).[What an amazingly patient methodical response thanks]


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## Stuey (Oct 21, 2009)

Look guys, this guy was swept away with it all, has it never happened to any of you? Sure, this is a common story. At 21 I am damn sure that we all did some stuff which we knew we shouldnt but did anyways. Just lay off a little. It takes experience to know how to find something legit and verify stuff. Very easy for us to poke fun and pull up in the light of the monitor. 

I can totally see how things like this come about, (the training that is). When I started Ninjutsu it was with the BBD, (england). Some tw@t called Brian something. What a spanner. Anyway, he was the head of the UK org. My teacher, under the influence of the org, had us doing all sorts of weird things. Nothing to that extent. I also wont say that more controlled variations of what you went through are bad practice. We were never in undue danger. But we did do war in the woods, and it was fun and it heightened awareness etc. (Later on my teacher moved over to Bujinkan and I went with, they didnt do any of this stuff) Stuff like moving through the training hall with all the lights off and obstacles in our path. Is it really so stupid? I cant remember the exact thread or the sub forum but have people here not suggested training in darkness? How is it any different? It just seems that this guy went a bit too far. But once again, before we judge, lets remember that this all happened in a completely different society to the one we live in, (unless you do actually live in the same place). One with different laws and customs etc.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi people. 

I am sorry for callin someone an idiot (offcourse nodoby here isn't). Bu i didn't do that because of not agreeing with me. I would never do that. I did because of making me an idiot with first few answers. That's different from just not agree with me.

Well, now things changed and all of you wrote something smart, saying why not agrreing with me. 

And you are right. I know after first post i looked like pokemon fan child playing with cards, like Bill Madocks said. But, i think it's not what somebody things now.

Yes, story is hard to believe, but true. And i wroted it because of two reasons: first, i have it for long time inside me and wanted to share with someone. Second, i wanted to do that in martial arts community which i can believe, i wanted to know somebody else's opinnion from that kind of community.

So i feelt sad after first few posts, which are almost direct insultes, not debating. And, i camed here with respect to this community, so you understand why i was angry.

Thank you very much for telling me all that, you opened my mind for some new knowledge. But also, i hope i did the same to you (well this isn't story you hear every day).

TheStudent mentioned some holes in my story. Yes, there was some changes, some things i didn't wrote in first post, because i didn;t know that story will be accepted this way and scanned for every error. I don't lied a word.

I will check the links, but i must say nothing between me and ninjutsu will happen anymore (if was at all). I train Hapkido and Taekwando, and feels like it's perfect for me.

And, somebody mentioned dissapearing - oh how it maked me laugh!! 
I didn't mean hi dissapeared like in Mortal Combat movies - i should write he leaved instead he dissapeared. Lol, stil funny.

Once, thanks for some advices. I hope soon i will make some reputation here, because i am definitely under a bad light now. Well my mistake, maybe i should shout about that. But i am very annest man, so..i wroted it under any price.

You people seems very well to me and i hoping that we will get better once.

Cheers


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

Also, i am still open for debates, and will be glad to do so. And Chris Parker than you for your patient, you saved this thread from ending up wrong way.


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## TigerLove (Oct 21, 2009)

@Stuey

I agree with you completely. We went to far. But is it so bad practice and is it so bad?

And yes, i live in completely different society, and have different laws.


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## Bruno@MT (Oct 22, 2009)

The reason you got those reactions is because there are 2 options:

- your story is not true, in which case you would be a fraud like many of the other known ninjutsu frauds.
- your story is true (meaning those things really happened t you) in which case your training was highly dangerous, irresponsible, and totally outside of what is known about ninjutsu training in any of the known legit ninjutsu organizations.

So regardless of whether your story is true or false, there would be objections either way. I am not passing judgement because I don't have a way to know which one it is. Assuming it is true, I think it was irresponsible of you to do those things, because you were lucky to survive intact. If parents worry about their kids, it is because they love them and don't want to see them get hurt.

My mother never objected to my martial arts involvement when I was in college. She even didn't mind when I spent more time with my sensei than with my parents. But she did want to know what I was doing, and that I was under competent supervision. She didn't mind me sparring, but she would have objected to me running around on rooftops in the dark, or climbing multistory building without safety gear.


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## TigerLove (Oct 22, 2009)

@Bruno@MT

I think i wroted all necessary answers so no need to repeat my self. Instead of writing similar answers to you, just read my previous postes!

:wavey:


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## Tony Dismukes (Oct 27, 2009)

Tiger,

I just re-read all your postings in this thread and I don't see that you've mentioned your instructor's name anywhere. Could you provide it? There are a lot of experienced Bujinkan practitioners here and in the ... _unlikely_ ... event that this gentleman was an legitimate instructor in the Bujinkan, they might recognize the name.


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