# Heian Godan, the jump?



## 72ronin (Feb 8, 2010)

I was just wondering what the general idea for the application would be.

I am aware of two apps, one seems to be the accepted norm and one seems outdated.
1, A leap over previously thrown opponent to lapel choke or arm manipulation.
2, "breaking the Bo" which explains itself really.

Anyway, what is the general consensus, which one?

edit; Also, Heian sandan, do you guys do 3/  stomps, crescent kicks, or just bring leg around? 

cheers
72ronin


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## JWLuiza (Feb 8, 2010)

Neither.

It is code for the throw in the move prior to the jump. Unless it is a jump kick, in the air = throwing your opponent. The landing X-block would be a choke control after the shoulder throw on your downed opponent.


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2010)

JWLuiza said:


> Neither.
> 
> It is code for the throw in the move prior to the jump. Unless it is a jump kick, in the air = throwing your opponent. The landing X-block would be a choke control after the shoulder throw on your downed opponent.


 

Nice one, Can I say I hated that jump in Wado (Pinan Godan) and I hate it in TSD too where its only very slightly different.


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## JWLuiza (Feb 8, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Nice one, Can I say I hated that jump in Wado (Pinan Godan) and I hate it in TSD too where its only very slightly different.



The trick for me was to keep my shoulder over my hips and sink down through the legs instead of bending over. I'm working on the Unsu and Kanku Sho jumps. Those are worse


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## Tez3 (Feb 8, 2010)

JWLuiza said:


> The trick for me was to keep my shoulder over my hips and sink down through the legs instead of bending over. I'm working on the Unsu and Kanku Sho jumps. Those are worse


 
What I find hard to do now is the 'getting up from kneeling' type movements in Kushanku! I'll a try with how you do it but honestly I think age is against me lol!


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## Makalakumu (Feb 8, 2010)

JWLuiza said:


> Neither.
> 
> It is code for the throw in the move prior to the jump. Unless it is a jump kick, in the air = throwing your opponent. The landing X-block would be a choke control after the shoulder throw on your downed opponent.



That's how I teach it.  Essentially one locks in Ichi monji shime and then tossed the opponent with hane goshi.  A variation would be to actually jump on the downed opponent.


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## Blade96 (Feb 8, 2010)

72 ronin, fellow shotokan karateka, Wish i could help ya after you helped me with Heian Nidan, but i havent made it up that far yet as far as Heian Sandan, Yondan, or Godan. 

I can however, wish you good luck and give you all good wishes. And thats why I post here. 

Very Best in Shotokan!

~ Blade ~


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## 72ronin (Feb 8, 2010)

Thankyou Blade,

Very best of luck with all your endeavors friend, 
especially your Shotokan  

72ronin


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## 72ronin (Feb 8, 2010)

Hey thanks everyone, thats what i thought the app was.

Has anybody ever heard of breaking the Bo? for that tech, just wondering lol.

Heian sandan, for some time we were doing three crescent kicks and nowadays we are doing three stomps, may i ask what you guys/girls do in yours 

cheers
72ronin


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## Blade96 (Feb 8, 2010)

72ronin said:


> Thankyou Blade,
> 
> Very best of luck with all your endeavors friend,
> especially your Shotokan
> ...


 
You're welcome.

Ooooooossssssssss.


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## Grenadier (Feb 8, 2010)

72ronin said:


> 1, A leap over previously thrown opponent to lapel choke or arm manipulation.
> 
> Anyway, what is the general consensus, which one?


 
Depends on the level of interpretation.  At the basic level, it's simply a leap over a downed opponent, followed by a crosing double low block to stop someone's kick.  



> edit; Also, Heian sandan, do you guys do 3/ stomps, crescent kicks, or just bring leg around?


 
From what I understand, most JKA folks perform three stomps, each performed with simultaneous elbow block, and followed by an overhand backfist to the nose.  

I've seen it done with crescent kicks, in addition to the stomping, much like kata Jitte is performed, although this isn't the norm for the JKA.


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## Grenadier (Feb 8, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> What I find hard to do now is the 'getting up from kneeling' type movements in Kushanku! I'll a try with how you do it but honestly I think age is against me lol!


 
In kata Kusanku or Kanku Dai (depending on Wado or Shotokan), I've seen many people with bad knees perform the kata so that after the rising strike from the turnaround (right after the halfway point), they'll simply get into a deep moto dachi (think of it as Jyunzuki / Zenkutsu dachi, but with the heels in the same line), instead of going all the way to the ground.  

From there, all they have to do is twist the hip to do the next move (open handed block, whether it's chudan or gedan).


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## JWLuiza (Feb 8, 2010)

72ronin said:


> Hey thanks everyone, thats what i thought the app was.
> 
> Has anybody ever heard of breaking the Bo? for that tech, just wondering lol.
> 
> ...



Breaking Bo: Never heard that. You could break a tournament Bo... but my Japanese White Oak? Heck no. 

Heian Sandan: I've seen both Kicks and Stomps.  IMHO, either are fine, because you can think of them as trips or sweeps from an arm control position.


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## TimoS (Feb 9, 2010)

72ronin said:


> 2, "breaking the Bo" which explains itself really.


To me, it actually doesn't. I can't quite understand how you're supposed to break the bo with the jump? Are you supposed to land on the bo or what? I think in my previous style it was explained as jumping over a bo strike or some such nonsense


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## Tez3 (Feb 9, 2010)

Grenadier said:


> In kata Kusanku or Kanku Dai (depending on Wado or Shotokan), I've seen many people with bad knees perform the kata so that after the rising strike from the turnaround (right after the halfway point), they'll simply get into a deep moto dachi (think of it as Jyunzuki / Zenkutsu dachi, but with the heels in the same line), instead of going all the way to the ground.
> 
> From there, all they have to do is twist the hip to do the next move (open handed block, whether it's chudan or gedan).


 
Thanks I'll definitely try it that way. When I first learnt the kata about 17 years a go itwas no problem, I was actually quite happy in the deep stances but oh dear me, now I find it hard just to get up from kneeling on the floor, it doesn't hurt or even creak, just doesn't do anything!


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## 72ronin (Feb 9, 2010)

TimoS said:


> To me, it actually doesn't. I can't quite understand how you're supposed to break the bo with the jump? Are you supposed to land on the bo or what? I think in my previous style it was explained as jumping over a bo strike or some such nonsense


 

Yes, seems i have to filter a few things out that my Instructor has said before, and this is one of them.  Hence my initial query of "has anyone else heard of this"..  

We have different timing in a few spots of Kata also, when we go to the Head dojo for major gradings etc  we are not insink with them in 1 or 2 minor areas of Kata!!
However he is a very good Karateka.  Just little things like this are really starting to bug me.
Ive put in so many years now, i cant just change clubs either (not that many choices in my area)

Anyway thanks everyone 
72ronin


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## Grenadier (Feb 9, 2010)

Tez3 said:


> Thanks I'll definitely try it that way. When I first learnt the kata about 17 years a go itwas no problem, I was actually quite happy in the deep stances but oh dear me, now I find it hard just to get up from kneeling on the floor, it doesn't hurt or even creak, just doesn't do anything!


 
We have a 78 year old fellow in our dojo (a sandan), and I've learned so much just by watching the way he does the more advanced kata. 

He's not afraid to try the more dynamic kata, either.  He simply modifies the kata, so that he does the 360 degree jump + double kick in Kusanku Sho / Kanku Sho while simply spinning on the ground, and not going down all the way.  

He's even done kata Unsu, compete with the 540 degree jump + double kick, also by pivoting on the ground.  Of course, he's not going to drop to the ground, and instead, modifies it so that he does the two round kicks standing up instead.  I swear, that this guy loves learning things so much, that he'll find a way to make things work.  

His main kata is Wanshu, and he puts on a very nice display, simply by pivoting on the ground during the 360 degree jump.  

There's no problem with modifying the techniques.  If anything, it serves as an inspiration to the younger folks, in that they can still do the same kata even when they're in their senior citizen years, just with a few modifications.


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## Blade96 (Feb 9, 2010)

78? I got this newspaper article about a shotokanka right here from Newfoundland who started at like 73 and he got his BB at age 80. and he's still kickin' it, pun intended. I cut out that article last year out of our newspaper The Telegram.


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## dancingalone (Apr 19, 2010)

One alternative that I teach to people with bad knees is to simply pivot and then take a deep stance in the x-block.  The double block is really a trap and you complete the take down of the opponent by collapsing and pulling out his knee/lower leg from under him.


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## Blade96 (Apr 19, 2010)

dancingalone said:


> One alternative that I teach to people with bad knees is to simply pivot and then take a deep stance in the x-block.  The double block is really a trap and you complete the take down of the opponent by collapsing and pulling out his knee/lower leg from under him.



yeah a blue belt in our dojo had come back from a knee injury and then he took his test for brown belt. he passed but because of his knees he stumbled on that jump in godan. The senseis boxed his ears for having a sloppy kata, but that wasnt his fault - poor thing had bad knees! 

That was the same night i got promoted from white to yellow when i passed my test that same night.

I really felt sorry for that guy though.


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