# What exactly encompasses the TSD ciriculum?



## matt.m (May 18, 2006)

I am participating in Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do.  I know the distinct difference between Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do.  However, I am interested as to knowing what makes Tang Soo Do an art in itself.  I see there is poomse and cane techniques.  Can someone give me a little guidance please?

What makes it unique and different?

Thanks


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## Makalakumu (May 18, 2006)

I wouldn't say that it is neccessarily unique, but it is different from TKD.  Tang Soo Do means "Way of the China Hand" Kara-te Do means the same thing.  Both arts are similar, however, TSD does more kicking.  Check out Superior Tangsoodo's hosted forum on this site.  Lots of videos in there to see what I'm talking about.


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## mtabone (May 25, 2006)

matt.m I am participating in Moo Sul Kwan Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do. I know the distinct difference between Hapkido and Tae Kwon Do. However, I am interested as to knowing what makes Tang Soo Do an art in itself. I see there is poomse and cane techniques. Can someone give me a little guidance please?

What makes it unique and different?

Thanks 


Hello Matt!
In Tang Soo Do we do not call them poomse but Hyungs. And there is not necessarily any cane hyungs or tech. or any weapon for that matter, in any Tang Soo Do org. The Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan, of which I am a member, has weapons forms as a requirement, but originally Tang Soo Do did not have required weapons forms. 

TKD (GENERALY) uses more kicks and fewer hands (90/10) where Tang Soo Do is about 55/45. Tang Soo Do's grappling and throws are more of the lineage of Aikido and Aiki-jistu then along the lines of Hopkido. Though, not every Tang Soo Do org. has throws and grappling tech. as required material to learn....

...So I guess what I am trying to say that it kind of depends on the school and the organization that the school belongs to...

Hope that helps....

TANG SOO!!!
M. Tabone

:asian:


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## mjd (Jun 11, 2006)

I teach Tang Soo Do and we do most all weapons including cane, knife, sword, bong, rope, bong and many others.

We also teach boxing, grapling, choke holds, joint locks, take downs, pressure points, and many others neat stuff.

We also teach hapkido

tang soo!


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## tsdmgk1336 (Jun 14, 2006)

And if I'm not mistaken we start learning at Cho-dan the weapons forms and I think it starts out at dagger...


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## mtabone (Jun 15, 2006)

tsdmgk1336And if I'm not mistaken we start learning at Cho-dan the weapons forms and I think it starts out at dagger... 

Yes Mr. Pope, and in our org. that Mi Guk Kwan that is part of our requirements. But my point being, that origionaly there were no weapons taught in Tang Soo Do. It all depends on the school/org. that one belongs to. To say what comprises "THE" Tang Soo Do sylibus is very hard, because it means a lot of things to alot of people....

Now if one asked that is the Mi Guk Kwan, or American TSD Assosiation, or the Moo Duk Kwan, or Pyl Sung, or ..........................................................................................................................................................................................
...............................................................then you could tell them what they do individualy....

But who has the time???

I got time to look on the board from time to time at work. But besides that I just simply train!

Hope to see you in Alantic City!

TANG SOO!!!

Michael Tabone


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## rmclain (Jun 15, 2006)

This really depends on what modern Tang Soo Do school you are thinking of when you ask about the "TSD curriculum."

During the late 1940's, "Tang Soo Do" was a generic term used by Korean dojangs for the type of martial art they practiced.  Other names included, "Kong Soo Do," and even "Subak Do."  The 5 major kwans used this distiction (Song Moo Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Moo Duk Won).

When the push for the kwans being assembled under one larger organization and losing their "kwan" names, the leader of the Moo Duk Won Tang Soo Do dojang (Hwang Kee) walked away from the unification process and kept the original name.  This is why most people not familiar with the detailed history only think of Moo Duk Won when people mention "Tang Soo Do."  But, all of the 5 major schools used this originally.

Originally, all of the 5 major dojangs were simply karate schools.  You can trace each kwan founder back to their instructor - which was usually a  karate teacher (Gichin Funakoshi, Toyama Kanken, etc.)  The exception may be Hwang Kee, for which I haven't heard of a definite direct instructor in his case - which is a bit of a sore spot among many Moo Duk Won instructors.  They have a good art, and I'm proud that they have stuck to their guns and preserved the teachings.  Another exception is Yoon Byung-In, who taught both karate and chuan-fa at what became the Chang Moo Kwan Tang Soo Do dojang.

So, if you're asking about the old-days curriculum you would have to look at the old kwan to find the curriculum.  But, most taught karate forms and techniques (Pyung Ahn forms (Pinan, Heian), Bassai Tae, Chulki, No Hai, Wan Shu, etc).  Basically, the forms found in a classic Japanese/Okinawan karate school.  Like I mentioned, the exception may be Moo Duk Won and certainly Chang Moo Kwan (which had karate from Toyama Kanken and Chuan-fa from Jang Chun, China).  As for weapons, I only know about the Chang Moo Kwan and Ji Do Kwan.  Both, head instructors (Yoon Byung-In and Yoon Kwe-byung, respectively) studied karate in Japan from Toyama Kanken.  They both learned bong(bo) teachniques and forms from Toyama Sensei.  Even Yoon Kwe-Byung published a bong hyung & technique book in the 1940's-even most senior Ji Do Kwan instructors don't know this information.

There were originally no throws, like in yudo(judo) in any of the Tang Soo Do schools.  The Koreans were allowed to study Judo during the 1930's & 40's by the occupying Japanese forces- but this didn't get added to the Tang Soo Do curriculums at first. Even the Ji Do Kwan started out teaching karate in the Chosun Yun Moo Kwan judo dojang-like a seperate department of instruction.  But, any of the throws, joint locks and takedowns in any branch of Tang Soo Do were added later from other arts- such as Yudo or Hapki Yu Kwon Sul (Hapkido).  This is the normal way systems grow.  But, the original curriculums were simply karate or karate/cuan-fa schools.

Nowadays, the Tang Soo Do schools have larger curriculums that have been influenced by instructors learning other places over the years.  So, you would really have to ask the individual schools about their curriculum in modern times.

R. McLain


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## Master Jay S. Penfil (Aug 9, 2006)

*In the USA, as well as in other areas of the world today you have thousands of practitioners who started in a give system, like for example, Tang Soo Do, and then studied other systems along the way (like me). Over a period of time, the principles and concepts that they learned in the other system bled into their curriculum, and to some degree brought about change. They may all still call themselves Tang Soo Do practitioners, but they may not all look the same when training side by side.*

*This isnt a bad thing. Grandmaster Hwang Kee discusses in his book, Tang Soo Do-Soo Bahk Do, the principle of Rue-Pah. Translated into English (roughly) meaning; the natural order of the flow in nature. In other words if you start out with five students with different physical builds, different learning strengths, etc. and teach them all up to 4th dan and send them to different locations in the world to teach and the repeat the process with their own 5 students, and so on and so on down the line (years later), if you bring them all together for a reunion training camp, their foundations may be similar, but there will be definite differences in the way they each perform, based on the individual strengths and weaknesses of each instructor that passed on the system over the years.*

*It would be impossible to have all of those instructors, from so many different places with such different life experiences pass on there knowledge without having them add a piece of themselves along the way, hence changing to some degree what is being taught.*

*When we ask; what is Tang Soo Do curriculum? The answer is not so easy to give. We have to ask; based on the head instructors years of experience and training, what has he/she chosen to incorporate in his/her association/organization/federations curriculum. *

*The answers will very as much as the number of people that you choose to ask.*

*If you ask; in the beginning (with Hwang Kee), what was the Tang Soo Do curriculum? This answer can be given by most any of us who have been around for 30+ years. That is an easy one*

*I hope that this posting can shed some positive light on this subject for you*


*Yours in Tang Soo Do,*


*Master Jay S. Penfil*


*TANG SOO!!!*​


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