# Doctor says...yer getting old, dude.  I am disgusted.



## Bill Mattocks (Nov 9, 2011)

So I went to the GP today for my annual checkup.  I have to go every six months for bloodwork for my diabetes anyway.  Good news; my BP is still in healthy range, 120/70, resting pulse 65.  Bad news, weight is up; ten pounds since last year.  A real shame, that, because I had lost nearly 50 pounds when I was first diagnosed with diabetes.  Got to get back on the bloody treadmill.  Also not so good news, the dark spots on my lungs (diagnosed by biopsy as sarcoidosis on my hilar lymph nodes) have not gone away as promised.  I'm asymptomatic, however, and since I have no symptoms, doctor says not to worry too much about it yet.

So, time to bring up the various aliments that have cropped up over the last year.

Left shoulder - feels like it is coming undone at times.  Doctor poked and prodded, said it looks like bursitis to him.  What to do about it?  It's called getting old, son.  Take some Motrin and try not to tear yourself up quite so much with karate.

Right knee - overall weakness and some pain; makes it hard to do katas like Chinto and Kusanku where I have to go down on one knee all the time.  Doctor looked at the kneecaps of both knees, said they were 'loose' and the muscles above them (what do you call those?) were slack or lax or something.  He felt some 'grinding' in the left knee; but that's not the one that hurts.  He had me tighten my knee while he held the kneecap; hurt like heck.  Recommended I do some leg lifts.  Also, take Motrin.  Also, it's called getting old, son.  Try not to go down on one knee like that.

Jammed fingers from a fight nearly six months ago when I blocked a kick with an open hand - yeah, that's a shame, he sez.  Let's x-ray it.  Oops, looks like you maybe broke two of the fingers.  Not the best job healing.  We could send you to a hand specialist; but he'd want too operate and rebreak the joints and set them; guaranteed a year of limited mobility and no punching anything.  What do I want to do?  Live with it, I guess.  He says yep, that's called getting old.

Nearly passed out while yawning in the dojo a couple months ago.  Weird, huh?  Well, it wasn't my blood sugar, I've been testing it in the dojo since then and it's normal (120 range).  Doctor says it could be low blood pressure.  Me, low blood pressure?  I've been at 140/90 nearly all my adult life, even when I was in the Marines.  Now I'm down to 120/70 and they're telling me I might be having a problem with my blood pressure?   Make up your minds, quacks!

So that's the story.  Have to await the results of the blood tests to get my cholesterol and PSA and liver and kidney function and my A1C and so on, but I'm not too worried.  Some specialist is supposed to be calling me to get me to come in and do the big colonoscopy thing; since I just turned 50, that's going to be a new one on me, and everyone tells me it sucks bigtime.  I make the doctor laugh when he said he thought I could get it done by the end of the year and I said "Whee, Merry Christmas to me!"

I also played with his toys.  He should not leave me alone in his office like that.

View attachment $290873_2514932187629_1082932103_32973035_457508573_o.jpg

I don't mind going to see the quack every so often.  I hate being told that there's not much I can do except keep getting older and having more stuff break.  That's not right!


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## Steve (Nov 9, 2011)

It sounds like he gave you some options.  It also sounds like you might need to find a doctor with small hands.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 9, 2011)

Steve said:


> It sounds like he gave you some options.  It also sounds like you might need to find a doctor with small hands.



Yeah, some options!

a) You are getting old.  This happens.
b) Take Motrin if it hurts.
c) Get some exercise and lose weight.
d) If it hurts to do the kata, don't do the kata.

I can't wait to see the doctor's bill for that prime bit of information!

Actually, I'm not complaining, just grousing a bit because yeah, large hands.  Bastich.


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## Gemini (Nov 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I hate being told that there's not much I can do except keep getting older and having more stuff break.  That's not right!


Unfortunately, right or wrong, that's the jist of it. We continue to work out and condition, always walking the the fine (but ever receding) line between good health and debilitating injuries. It's a battle we will ultimately lose...but not today.


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## Steve (Nov 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Yeah, some options!
> 
> a) You are getting old.  This happens.


Sucks, but it's true.  





> b) Take Motrin if it hurts.


Good advice, particularly if there's inflammation.  But he also said that surgery was an option, and gave you the choice for your hands.  I've broken several toes over the years and they don't work quite right, although I've been lucky with my hands.  It also sounds, regarding your hands, like he implied, "Could've helped with that, but you were too stubborn to come see me before they healed incorrectly."  





> c) Get some exercise and lose weight.


Umm... yeah.





> d) If it hurts to do the kata, don't do the kata.


And if you do a, b and c, maybe d won't hurt so bad.  

I see where you're coming from, Bill.  I really do.  Not trying to make more of this than is there.  But one of the real issues we have in our country with health care is this idea that doctors fix us when we're broken.  And largely, that's what they do, because we ignore their advice completely.  

Even when it comes to medication, we treat symptoms.  Which is why we have such an issue with MRSA an other antibiotic resistant bacteria.  We don't finish cycles of antibiotics, over use them to begin with, and don't take the necessary steps to allow our bodies to heal and operate correctly.  Which is also why mental illness is so difficult to treat and so often ends up in homelessness, because people stop taking their meds when they "feel better" and end up spiraling until they end up in the hospital where their meds can be stabilized, rinse, repeat.  

If a doctor tells you at 20 that you should eat right and exercise, and then at 30 says you should eat better and exercise, and lose some weight, then at 40 says you're diabetic and really need to eat better, exercise, and brother, you really need to shed some weight because your joints are being taxed, your back is being strained and it's putting one hell of a load on your heart.  At 50, the doctor is saying, "Look.  I'm not going to say 'I told you so' but boy, could I!"  I hope it was a good ride!

This isn't a criticism of you.  More a side note that your post triggered, as this is something I've thought about a lot based on my own history.  I am fictionalizing big time here, but it's a scenario we're all familiar with.  Obesity is at an all time high.  People are more out of shape than ever.  We exercise less and it should be no wonder that we pay for it later.





> Actually, I'm not complaining, just grousing a bit because yeah, large hands.  Bastich.


Haha!


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks to Steve, I'm planning a full Kevorkian off the high board with a half-gainer on the way down.  When I'm 95.  Which I fully intend to reach.


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## MaxiMe (Nov 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Thanks to Steve, I'm planning a full Kevorkian off the high board with a half-gainer on the way down. When I'm 95. Which I fully intend to reach.


Motrin in the right hand and gulp when ya hit the water?



Sorry couldn't resist.

Guess we all get the disease. What's it called..oh yeah OLD.


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## Steve (Nov 9, 2011)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Thanks to Steve, I'm planning a full Kevorkian off the high board with a half-gainer on the way down.  When I'm 95.  Which I fully intend to reach.


That's because you're stubborn.  I have a brother who is 10 years old than me.  He was adult onset diabetic, had high blood pressure, was overweight and was cruising for a heart attack.  He was 45. I was 35, overweight, pre-diabetic, had high/normal blood pressure and high triglycerides. The writing was on the wall for me, and while the advice from my doctor didn't stick, seeing my brother made an impression.

My other brother, who is 1 year older than me, had a heart attack at age 38.

I made some changes, lost some weight and found exercise I enjoy (BJJ).  What was really great is that my getting into shape inspired my brother, and now, at 51, he's dropped 60 lbs, manages his diabetes through diet and exercise and has cut the number of pills he takes daily from about 15 to, IIRC, 2.  

While we can't help but get old, it's never too late to get healthier.

And, Bill, I hope you do reach 95, you crotchety old bastard.


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## JohnEdward (Nov 9, 2011)

Nope it ain't old age. Well not completely. Bill your too young. It is called lack of taking proper care of yourself, and it has caught up to you. Also, Karate is a contact sport. It does take a toll on the body especially one that hasn't been maintained. When it isn't properly practiced.  It isn't like Judo, well old Judo, where you where sentenced to destroying your knees do to some waza that twists the knees. Or Taichi that does the same thing but not as bad. Karate kata is easy on the body, but it isn't when you are in poor shape, and neglected your health. Karate if I remember right has some fundamental exercises to strengthen the body in order to prevent injury. A built in conditioning i.e. the way you practice and learn kicks.  

If you're complaining, about Karate. It is because you haven't maintained your body. Most men if they maintain their bodies, conditioning it to the rigors of practice, and daily life, at 50 can still be physically impressive. 

Sitting in front of a computer logging in posts, boy am I hypocritical, complaining about how unfit you are, is what is making you unfit, ill-conditioned for the physical activity of  karate. Resulting in your medical woes.   Karate kata isn't a cake walk. That is a huge failing to think you can get by at or are not aware you that you need more than minimal physical conditioning of the kata.

A term my instructor would often say is "shugyo" and than would follow up with "your own training." Which would mean and would point to do serious physical conditioning for the activity.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 9, 2011)

Yup, it sucks getting old. 
I think you and I are within a few months of being the same age. I'll trade my cancer for your diabetes.. 

This is me, taken 11-5-11. Old, fat and weak. It's a little blurry because it's a frame capture from a video. Or maybe I'm just getting blurry...


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## seasoned (Nov 9, 2011)

Hang in there Bill. I will point to me. There is hope, I started when I was 23, and now I'm 68. 

Hard core dojo's have a way of perpetuating this. That, and in your case, being a Marine, causes you to "work through it mentally" . The only saving grace is there is an age point where our senses dull some what, or we just get use to the pain, and it is easier to deal with. Our bodies adapet, and in the long run the core techniques are what we are left with. Do the best you can every day, and above all, never let anyone tell you it's because your getting OLD. I say bull ---- on that.


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## Brian King (Nov 9, 2011)

Getting old sucks...but... the alternative sucks more 

Brian


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## Sukerkin (Nov 10, 2011)

:nods: Quite right, Brian. I do agree most whole-heartedly, tho' it does feel like my warranties about to expire as I near 50 and various bits and pieces start to malfunction :lol:.


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## ETinCYQX (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm not even 20 and I have joint issues already Bill, you're not alone...I broke a few toes last night actually and I have Shiai tomorrow. I see medical tape and Advil in my near future


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## MPC1257 (Nov 10, 2011)

Lately my joints ache sooner and longer after working out, both at the gym and at my martial arts school.  However, at 54 I must say that I feel better now than I did 20 years ago and that's because 20 years ago I didn't do squat to stay in shape.  I also think that not having played any organized sports at an early age has helped preserve my body.  I have quite a few friends that played football and basketball in high school and they are having all kinds of problems with their legs, knees, backs, etc.  Just listen to your body and if it really hurts, back off the intensity for a while and then slowly bring it back up.  The other thing is that you are getting older, so you can't always do the things that you did when you were 10 or 20 years younger.

I don't plan on stopping until they plant me!


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## seasoned (Nov 10, 2011)

MPC1257 said:


> Lately my joints ache sooner and longer after working out, both at the gym and at my martial arts school. However, at 54 I must say that I feel better now than I did 20 years ago and that's because 20 years ago I didn't do squat to stay in shape. I also think that not having played any organized sports at an early age has helped preserve my body. I have quite a few friends that played football and basketball in high school and they are having all kinds of problems with their legs, knees, backs, etc. Just listen to your body and if it really hurts, back off the intensity for a while and then slowly bring it back up. The other thing is that you are getting older, so you can't always do the things that you did when you were 10 or 20 years younger.
> 
> _*I don't plan on stopping until they plant me*_!



*+1*  Nice post, I like the positive attitude.


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## WC_lun (Nov 10, 2011)

If 50 is when the warantee on our bodies expire, I want a rufund of my body's purchase price 

Getting older does make a man appreicate good health much more than he used to.  I'm finding I do what I can do to keep my body as good as I can and work through what I can't.  The trick sometimes is knowing when not to do a physical activity.  I keep forgetting that I am not as physically skilled as I used to be and I heal a LOT slower than I used to.  I think the trade off for most guys is that we are somewhat wiser than we were when we were younger.


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## Carol (Nov 10, 2011)

MPC1257 said:


> Lately my joints ache sooner and longer after working out, both at the gym and at my martial arts school.  However, at 54 I must say that I feel better now than I did 20 years ago and that's because 20 years ago I didn't do squat to stay in shape.  I also think that not having played any organized sports at an early age has helped preserve my body.  I have quite a few friends that played football and basketball in high school and they are having all kinds of problems with their legs, knees, backs, etc.  Just listen to your body and if it really hurts, back off the intensity for a while and then slowly bring it back up.  The other thing is that you are getting older, so you can't always do the things that you did when you were 10 or 20 years younger.
> 
> I don't plan on stopping until they plant me!



Hey, why stop there?  I mean...haven't you played Plants vs. Zombies?


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## jks9199 (Nov 10, 2011)

ETinCYQX said:


> I'm not even 20 and I have joint issues already Bill, you're not alone...I broke a few toes last night actually and I have Shiai tomorrow. I see medical tape and Advil in my near future


Take care of your joints now.  One of the tragedies about martial arts in the West is the number of crippled and impaired masters today...  The men (not sexist, just few women were openly involved at the time) who paved the way are now having hips and knees replaced, or finding themselves otherwise impaired in life.  They trained hard, but didn't necessarily take care of themselves, and they're paying for it today.

Learn how to properly and effectively warm up and prepare your body for training.  Learn exercises like Indian clubs, yoga, and others that will help heal the damage you do to your body, and make regular practice of them part of your life and routine.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 10, 2011)

You can't beat Father Time. It's just not possible. 

But you can spit in his eye and tell him to come back in a few years.


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## Nomad (Nov 10, 2011)

Yep.  Keep in mind that in many many ways, when it comes to the condition of your body, joints, and so on, it's less the age that matters than the mileage (figurative and literal).

One of the "downsides" of having drastically increased the average human lifespan is that not all of the parts stay covered under warranty for the duration... when the average lifespan was 40, we didn't have to worry too much about osteoarthritis, Alzheimer's or other ailments that frequently come hand in hand with aging.


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## David43515 (Nov 13, 2011)

Steve said:


> It also sounds like you might need to find a doctor with small hands.



I almost went pre-med. I wanted to become a proctologist, but my advisor said my knuckles weren`t big enough.
*rimshot* :uhyeah:


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## Tez3 (Nov 14, 2011)

Take chronditon and glucasamine for the joints, along with cod liver oil, really helps.


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## Dirty Dog (Nov 14, 2011)

David43515 said:


> I almost went pre-med. I wanted to become a proctologist, but my advisor said my knuckles weren`t big enough.
> *rimshot* :uhyeah:



I'm pretty sure it's illegal (or at the very least, redundant) to use "*rimshot*" in a proctology joke...


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2011)

Nomad said:


> Yep.  Keep in mind that in many many ways, when it comes to the condition of your body, joints, and so on, it's less the age that matters than the mileage (figurative and literal).
> 
> One of the "downsides" of having drastically increased the average human lifespan is that not all of the parts stay covered under warranty for the duration... when the average lifespan was 40, we didn't have to worry too much about osteoarthritis, Alzheimer's or other ailments that frequently come hand in hand with aging.


I'm not sure I understand the point here.  There have always been old people.  It's not like 2000 years ago people just expired at 30 like in Logan's Run.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 14, 2011)

Steve said:


> I'm not sure I understand the point here.  There have always been old people.  It's not like 2000 years ago people just expired at 30 like in Logan's Run.



Yeah, they pretty much did, as I understand it.  Maybe 40 or 50, but few made it longer than that.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2011)

???  In ancient Sparta, the minimum age to serve on the senate was 60.  If it was so rare to live that long, why would they have done this?  There is plenty of evidence of people living to ripe, old ages.

It's advances in infant and child mortality, as well as reduced violence overall, that accounts for the dramatic increase in life expectancy.  It's not because we have biologically evolved into a longer living creature.  It's because we're not as a group either invading the "known world" or being invaded by a mongol horde or Persian man/god.  Or, for that matter, being raided routinely by the next town over. 

Maybe I'm not understanding fully what you guys are saying, but I have this image of people just dying at 40 of natural causes and it's pretty funny.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 14, 2011)

Steve said:


> ???  In ancient Sparta, the minimum age to serve on the senate was 60.  If it was so rare to live that long, why would they have done this?  There is plenty of evidence of people living to ripe, old ages.
> 
> It's advances in infant and child mortality, as well as reduced violence overall, that accounts for the dramatic increase in life expectancy.  It's not because we have biologically evolved into a longer living creature.  It's because we're not as a group either invading the "known world" or being invaded by a mongol horde or Persian man/god.  Or, for that matter, being raided routinely by the next town over.
> 
> Maybe I'm not understanding fully what you guys are saying, but I have this image of people just dying at 40 of natural causes and it's pretty funny.



Life expectancy is different depend on how you look at it.  By averages, it was quite low in previous times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_variation_over_time

However, that took into account all deaths, including the rather high infant mortality rate.  If you have two people and one dies at birth and the other at age 100, the average life expectancy is 50, which is accurate but not meaningful.

But you can also look at the average age of people at death who have survived to age 21, and the numbers are still rather low...



> In some cases life expectancy may increase with age as the individual survives the higher mortality rates associated with childhood. For instance, the table above listed life expectancy at birth in Medieval Britain at 30. A male member of the English aristocracy at the same period could expect to live, having survived until the age of 21[17]:
> 
> 1200-1300 A.D.: 43 years (to age 64)
> 1300-1400 A.D.: 24 years (to age 45) (due to the impact of the Black Death)
> ...



It is true that you could not be a member of the Spartan Senate until you were 60 years of age.  However, that does not say that men routinely achieved that age.

Nor is anyone saying that men died of 'natural causes' at age 40; unless war, famine, and disease were natural.  If so, then yes, they sure did; lots of them.

The current world average is 67 years old.


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## Nomad (Nov 14, 2011)

Steve said:


> I'm not sure I understand the point here.  There have always been old people.  It's not like 2000 years ago people just expired at 30 like in Logan's Run.



There have always been old people.  But it wasn't very long ago at all that they were much rarer than they are now.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm relieved that were not too far off here.  I'm glad you elaborated your point.  When I said "expired like in Logan's Run" and you just simply went with, "Yeah, they pretty much did," I don't think that it's too much of a leap to envision people keeling over at 40 from old age.

Point is, and your links support this, that biologically, we are much as we were a few thousand years ago.  While the specific ailments are a product of our lifestyles, we are built to live 70 or 80 years old.  Our bodies age now the same way they did then.  We're not biologically evolved in any significant way.


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## Steve (Nov 14, 2011)

Nomad said:


> There have always been old people.  But it wasn't very long ago at all that they were much rarer than they are now.


You guys are killing me.  

In a discussion about aging, don't you guys agree that crime, infant mortality, war, pestilence, plague and natural disaster kind of unnecessarily muddy the waters?  Even in Ancient Sparta, where it must not have been THAT rare, or there would be no Senate, age brought with it predictable ailments and it looked pretty much the same.  While we may have extended our lives by a few years, the genes are much the same.  

From the article Bill linked above:  " _The genetics of humans and rate of aging were no different in preindustrial societies than today, but people frequently died young because of untreatable diseases, accidents, and malnutrition._ Many women did not survive childbirth, and when a person did reach old age they were likely to succumb quickly to health problems."

That's all I'm saying.


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## Bill Mattocks (Nov 14, 2011)

Steve said:


> Point is, and your links support this, that biologically, we are much as we were a few thousand years ago.  While the specific ailments are a product of our lifestyles, we are built to live 70 or 80 years old.  Our bodies age now the same way they did then.  We're not biologically evolved in any significant way.



Yes, I agree.  Previously we died before we were worn down.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.


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## Nomad (Nov 14, 2011)

Steve said:


> You guys are killing me.
> 
> From the article Bill linked above:  " _The genetics of humans and rate of aging were no different in preindustrial societies than today, but people frequently died young because of untreatable diseases, accidents, and malnutrition._ Many women did not survive childbirth, and when a person did reach old age they were likely to succumb quickly to health problems."
> 
> That's all I'm saying.



Then we're not arguing  

Yes, the average life expectancy has gone up significantly over the last few hundred years, specifically because of lower infant mortality rates, introduction of Penicillins and other useful drugs that have made otherwise fatal diseases treatable (and even trivial in some cases), less malnutrition in developed countries, big advances in the medical field relating to childbirth (which even 100 years ago was much more likely to result in the death of the baby, the mother, or both than it is now).  You could add no World Wars in the last 55+ years to the list, as the last couple definitely did their share to skew the population distribution of many countries throughout the world.

What this *does* mean is that we have more old(er) people now than at any time in the world's history, both in real numbers and on a percentage basis, and the corollary of that is that debilitating physical and mental conditions that frequently come with old age are much more prevalent in society in general, and in the public consciousness as well.


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