# 'Chu Tai Chi' in New York - anyone have opinions?



## Zorlio (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi,
I'm interested in taking up tai chi lessons and I was looking up some places in NYC and was wondering if anyone has any info on Chu Tai Chi http://www.chutaichi.com/ or on master C.K. Chu?
I'm pretty new to the tai chi scene so I'll take suggestions of other places in NYC (yang or chen).

thanks


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 10, 2008)

I do not know anything about the school you have provided the link for and the only people in the NYC area that I know anything about and would recommend are Ren Guanyi who teachers Chen Style and Alex Dong who teaches Dong (Tung) Style, Yang Style and possibly Hao Style.

However I am sure there are more and there are some on MT that are in the NYC area that may be able to give you more information.


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## pete (Jun 11, 2008)

hi Zorlio, welcome to the wonderful world of tai chi... i teach on long island and know of a couple of good options in manhattan.  I'll PM you.

pete.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 12, 2008)

I just thought of another possibility

William C. C. Chen Tai Chi Chuan

He is in New York, NY he teachers his version of Cheng Manching style, and was a student of Cheng Manching, and is very big on martial arts.


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## Zorlio (Jun 14, 2008)

thanks for the replies

Speaking of William C.C. Chen, on the "Chu Tai Chi" website, it says that Master C.K. Chu studied with William C.C. Chen and then assisted teaching in his school.

(I dunno why I'm so focused on the chutaichi place; maybe it's the great website layout)

here's a clip:  http://mefeedia.com/entry/master-ck-chu-yang-short-form/6711256/
how does it look, good/bad/mediocre?


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## East Winds (Jun 15, 2008)

Why does he keep looking down!!! Its a martial art, he should be looking at his opponent!!! Looking down means no high spirit. But then thats one of the things I dislike about Chen Man-ching form.

Very best wishes


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 15, 2008)

Zorlio said:


> thanks for the replies
> 
> Speaking of William C.C. Chen, on the "Chu Tai Chi" website, it says that Master C.K. Chu studied with William C.C. Chen and then assisted teaching in his school.
> 
> ...


 
If you are focused on it go give it a try and see what you think. Try a few others and see what you think as well and they go for whatever one you like best

Whether or not I like or don't like the video should not make a difference.


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 15, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Why does he keep looking down!!! Its a martial art, he should be looking at his opponent!!! Looking down means no high spirit. But then thats one of the things I dislike about Chen Man-ching form.
> 
> Very best wishes



That's not a standard ZMQ form in the least. Compare to the actual ZMQ:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=USJPmCZ6Efc

As you can see, there are many differences.

I thought Chu was some variant of Wu style? 

He certainly has his own flavor. Not my style, but not necessarily unworkable.

As a side note, William C.C. Chen was a student of ZMQ. That's true. But he doesn't do the ZMQ 37. He does a longer 67(?) posture form that seems essentially the same as J.J. Soong's 64. Both forms were attempts to put back the Yang moves that ZMQ took out, although they kept many of the ZMQ characteristics.


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## East Winds (Jun 15, 2008)

Formosa Neijia,

My impression was that this was more CMC than Wu style. It certainly isn't Yang Cheng-fu!!!! On a second, more close look, I agree that it is not pure CMC either. He only does one Strum the Lute followed by one Brush and Push then straight into Step Up Parry and Punch. 

Not my cup of tea, but then thats only my personal opinion.

Very best wishes


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## Quotheraving (Jun 16, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Why does he keep looking down!!! Its a martial art, he should be looking at his opponent!!! Looking down means no high spirit. But then thats one of the things I dislike about Chen Man-ching form.
> 
> Very best wishes



Having studied the Cheng-Man form with one of his students I can assure you that this isn't his form and is unrepresentative of it's basic principles... I can't speak for every practitioner of this form, but I was explicitly taught to keep my eyes up, the head suspended and never ever to lock the front knee when shifting the weight back as frequently happens in that video.

Here's a reasonably good example of the CMC form, despite it looking to me as though he overextends knee over toe a few times (though this may be more a matter of the angle of the camera) :


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## Quotheraving (Jun 17, 2008)

Zorlio said:


> thanks for the replies
> 
> Speaking of William C.C. Chen, on the "Chu Tai Chi" website, it says that Master C.K. Chu studied with William C.C. Chen and then assisted teaching in his school.
> 
> ...



I know you like this website, but that form is worse than bad, it's atrocious.


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## mfinn (Jun 19, 2008)

I suggest you visit a class taught by my teacher, Master Yu Cheng-Hsiang.  He studied with Cheng Man-Ching and before that with Lee Soo-Chin in Taiwan.  You can check him out at his very simple Web site www.taichi108.com.  Like him, the site is quite unadorned, but it tells a unique story of an amazing teacher.  I have studied with a number of teachers, including Cheng Man-Ching back in the early 1970s, William Chen and a number of others.  No one is like Master Yu.  But he is, shall we say, decidedly old-school.  

His schedule is on the site.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2008)

mfinn said:


> Master Yu Cheng-Hsiang.....But he is, shall we say, *decidedly old-school.*


 
Those are the best CMA teachers IMO


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## Zorlio (Jun 19, 2008)

mfinn said:


> I suggest you visit a class taught by my teacher, Master Yu Cheng-Hsiang.  He studied with Cheng Man-Ching and before that with Lee Soo-Chin in Taiwan.  You can check him out at his very simple Web site www.taichi108.com.  Like him, the site is quite unadorned, but it tells a unique story of an amazing teacher.  I have studied with a number of teachers, including Cheng Man-Ching back in the early 1970s, William Chen and a number of others.  No one is like Master Yu.  But he is, shall we say, decidedly old-school.
> 
> His schedule is on the site.



thanks for the link

this has probably been answered before, but, what is the difference between the Cheng Man-Ching style of tai chi and the traditional Yang style taught by Yang Sau Chung (son of Yang Chengfu)?  I ask because I found this one place in NY (nytaichi.com) run by H. Won Gim who was a student of Gin Soon Chu from Boston who was taught by Yang Sau Chung.  So now I'm all confused; traditional yang style, Chen Man Ching style, help :erg:


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 19, 2008)

Zorlio said:


> thanks for the link
> 
> this has probably been answered before, but, what is the difference between the Cheng Man-Ching style of tai chi and the traditional Yang style taught by Yang Sau Chung (son of Yang Chengfu)?  I ask because I found this one place in NY (nytaichi.com) run by H. Won Gim who was a student of Gin Soon Chu from Boston who was taught by Yang Sau Chung.  So now I'm all confused; traditional yang style, Chen Man Ching style, help :erg:



That's a bit of a can of worms. I would suggest you do some reading:
http://sataichi.com/compare.html

This goes into good detail about the difference between ZMQ and Yang Zhen-duos taiji.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 19, 2008)

Formosa Neijia said:


> That's a bit of a can of worms. I would suggest you do some reading:
> http://sataichi.com/compare.html
> 
> This goes into good detail about the difference between ZMQ and Yang Zhen-duos taiji.


 

Thanks, I read that a while back and then lost the link and I have been looking for it fo awhile now.

Now if I can just find the Fu compared to Yang Jun compared to Tung Hu Ling link again all will will be right with the world.

And yes that is a can of worms, If I ever want to get my sifu going I talk about CMC


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## Zorlio (Jun 19, 2008)

Formosa Neijia said:


> That's a bit of a can of worms. I would suggest you do some reading:
> http://sataichi.com/compare.html
> 
> This goes into good detail about the difference between ZMQ and Yang Zhen-duos taiji.



thanks, very informative


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## East Winds (Jun 20, 2008)

Xue Sheng,

I'll bet you only mention CMC to your Sifu when you want to experience more pain. As if beating on trees wasn't enough!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Very best wishes


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 25, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> Now if I can just find the Fu compared to Yang Jun compared to Tung Hu Ling link again all will will be right with the world.



Sorry, that got taken down. It was at zenmindsword's blog. He went all secret and took down his public blog.


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## Xue Sheng (Jun 25, 2008)

East Winds said:


> Xue Sheng,
> 
> I'll bet you only mention CMC to your Sifu when you want to experience more pain. As if beating on trees wasn't enough!!!!
> 
> ...


 
I learned NEVER to bring up CMC while training with my Sifu , but then bringing up Tung Hu Ling just gives him happy memories and ideas which can be equally as painful


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## Formosa Neijia (Jun 25, 2008)

Xue Sheng said:


> I learned NEVER to bring up CMC while training with my Sifu , but then bringing up Tung Hu Ling just gives him happy memories and ideas which can be equally as painful



You may be interested to know that a disciple of a disciple of YCF was the official representative of that that branch of Yang style here in Taiwan -- Wang Zi-he.  He was very secretive and no where near as popular as ZMQ but he was quite skilled. His opinion of ZMQ was apparently the same as Tung's. Li Ya-xuan, another disciple of YCF, shared that opinion. It seems that ZMQ perhaps wasn't all that popular with his shixiong.

But his method does work for some people.


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