# Losing my instructor....



## geezer (Dec 19, 2010)

Looks like another consequence of the economic downturn is that I will be losing my instructor/training partner next month. The economy here in Arizona has totally tanked, and he's been out of work, or at least out of a permanent job, for about a year. With a family, mortgage and all the rest of life's financial obligations weighing on him, he has been forced to look out of state for work. The most promising offer will take him _abroad_. Well, it's going to be kinda tough to commute to Europe to continue my training! The closest instructor will be the head of our group who lives in Texas over 1,000 miles away. Even that's a tough commute on a teacher's salary. My wife is already concerned about the time and money I devote to training. Well, I suppose I can always work lower level stuff with my own students who are all beginners, but what about chi-sau, chi-kwun and other advanced stuff? And I'm not about to start over changing lineages. Anybody else in this situation?


----------



## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

geezer said:


> Looks like another consequence of the economic downturn is that I will be losing my instructor/training partner next month. The economy here in Arizona has totally tanked, and he's been out of work, or at least out of a permanent job, for about a year. With a family, mortgage and all the rest of life's financial obligations weighing on him, he has been forced to look out of state for work. The most promising offer will take him _abroad_. Well, it's going to be kinda tough to commute to Europe to continue my training! The closest instructor will be the head of our group who lives in Texas over 1,000 miles away. Even that's a tough commute on a teacher's salary. My wife is already concerned about the time and money I devote to training. Well, I suppose I can always work lower level stuff with my own students who are all beginners, but what about chi-sau, chi-kwun and other advanced stuff? And I'm not about to start over changing lineages. Anybody else in this situation?


Heres someone I know in Phoenix for JKD and Wing Chun:
*For those of you wishing to study JKD around the Phoenix area on a private basis, please feel free to contact Rafael Figuroa at 1-480-772-2820. He has a strong background in Ving Tsun, MMA, Muay Thai, and JKD under Patrick Strong. He is also a personal trainer in the fitness industry. I highly endorse this tremendous martial artist!!!!*
The above endorsement from another friend can be found here:
http://quijanosmartialarts.com/site/


----------



## Vajramusti (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi "Geezer" -I had a late breakfast with both of them earlier this month... and heard about the problem. You have been in wing chun long enough to teach some good chi sao to your better students and go from there. Regards,

joy chaudhuri


----------



## K-man (Dec 19, 2010)

When I broke away from my original Goju Kai based style to pursue more Okinawan based study I was concerned as to how I would advance without the higher ranks to train with. In actual fact, once I was by myself I had invitations to train with practitioners from other similar styles. I went from drinking from a cup that was down to the dregs to a smorgasbord that makes my mouth water. My martial art knowledge, understanding and practice expanded greatly once I was on my own. Now I am loosely affiliated with another group but still independently pursuing my own dream.
I'm not suggesting that you leave your style, but you may be able to find other people around you that wouldn't have issued an invitation while you were training with your friend, but would now love to train with you to share the pool of knowledge. On the whole, I have found committed MAs are incredibly generous in sharing their knowledge if you are not a threat.
Just a thought. Good luck! :asian:

(If the situation in Arizona is too bad, maybe you could come out to Aus and train with us 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

K-man said:


> On the whole, I have found committed MAs are incredibly generous in sharing their knowledge  :asian:


----------



## yak sao (Dec 19, 2010)

Is there anyone in the group that you could put on an accelertated program so yhat you would have someone to train the sections with?


----------



## geezer (Dec 19, 2010)

yak sao said:


> Is there anyone in the group that you could put on an accelertated program so yhat you would have someone to train the sections with?



Yeah... that's the worst part. We've got a young guy going who's big, strong, physically gifted and yet humble and hard working and learning really fast. So what did he do he do? He joined the Air Force, and is getting into special ops. He'll probably ship out about the same time my instructor leaves! 

Honestly, it's a great career choice for him, and I admire that he's serving our country. But we will definitely miss him in our group!


----------



## James Kovacich (Dec 19, 2010)

geezer said:


> Yeah... that's the worst part. We've got a young guy going who's big, strong, physically gifted and yet humble and hard working and learning really fast. So what did he do he do? He joined the Air Force, and is getting into special ops. He'll probably ship out about the same time my instructor leaves!
> 
> Honestly, it's a great career choice for him, and I admire that he's serving our country. But we will definitely miss him in our group!


I know Rafael has talked about working out with an unofficial group in a park or garage or somewhere like that. He is well rounded and I believe was a Wing Chun Sifu before starting JKD.


----------



## Steve (Dec 20, 2010)

It's a perfect opportunity for you to try something new.  There's a Lotus Club BJJ school down there in Phoenix.


----------



## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 20, 2010)

Just keep training and train with your instructor when you can!


----------



## CRCAVirginia (Dec 20, 2010)

When one door closes ...


----------



## profesormental (Dec 21, 2010)

Greetings.

I've been though this several times.

Yet if you have a group, keep training it and making it a bigger and better group. Then learn some more. Do the best with what you have. Then get more.

By your statements you are at a level where you can lead a group to excellent results. Keep honing what you have and laterz get more instruction and get better. Improve and get better at what you know, then go and get some more.

Keep going and something cool will happen.

And you've got us here to play too!


----------



## Domino (Dec 21, 2010)

I admire Joys positivity.
Maybe get onto BJJ and trade, then finding yourself some more training partners in time.


----------



## zepedawingchun (Dec 21, 2010)

Geezer, I'm sorry to hear you're losing your instructor.  You are training in Wing Chun and Kali, correct?  Is this your Wing Chun or Kali instructor leaving?  If it's the Wing Chun instructor, I'm sure you're at a very proficient level that you could run your own group.  If you have all the forms, and applications and concepts to the forms, there is no reason you can't continue to learn and advance in Wing Chun by constant practice.

Something I find is a lot of times the instructor is not pushed to their limits.  You push and physically test your students all the time, but no one pushes you.  As an instructor, you need someone at your same level to give you some difficulty and test your skills.  You can still get students not at your same skill level to do that.  They won't be as good, but, it is still the oportuninty for you to learn something.  It's the constant practice in one form or another that helps to build the skill.  Be it using concepts from the Biu Jee form, to the long pole and butterfly sword.  Junior students can feed you drills to help improve your pole and blade skills.  You just have to give them the direction to help them give you what you need to train it.

My sifu is at such a high level (and seems to improve all the time), I asked him one time, where does he find people to test him, people at his level to teach him.  And he told me that he never stops training, and touches hands with everyone he can.  The more you do it the better and easier it gets.  That's the secret.  Sometimes he spends hours working one set on the dummy, just playing with it, over, and over, and over, tearing it apart, putting it together, looking at from all angles.  And he does that with everything.  Yes, he does teach full time, it is his profession (that probably helps more than anything, it allows him to spend hours each day if he wants), but still, it's the constant repetition of doing forms, working on the dummy, long pole and butterfly sword drills, applying and doing things over and over, that has brought him to such a high level.

My sifu only spent 7 years with his sifu, with a lot of time doing chi sau.  But that was enough to give him the basics of what he needed so he could take the art and run with it.  He pressure tested the art, used it against other art forms, and crosstrained to see how he could make it work against everything he could find.  He's always telling me and my fellow students 'there are no secrets to mastering Wing Chun, you just have to put in the time and diligence and work at it'.  And he's right.

What you have to do is decide how far you want to go.  Are you happy with what your skill level is right now?  Or do you want to take it even higher?  You have to make sacrifices somewhere to do it.  More quality time training to get results may mean less time with the family and friends.  If you're only training 2 days a week, maybe you should train 3 to help improve.  If you want to take your chi sau skills to another level, maybe you need to add 2 days more training to your regime and train only chi sau on thos days.  Same with the long pole, blades, and dummy.  But you have to make the sacrifice to do it.  Nothing comes easy, but if you have the basics (all the forms, drills for chi sau, dummy, pole, butterfly sword, etc.) all you need to do is constantly work them.  If you want a master's skill level, you have to put a master's length of time doing it.  That is the secret. 

The truth is only you can determine how high your skill level becomes.  If you want it, *YOU* have to be willing to take it (the art) and do something with it.


----------



## yak sao (Dec 21, 2010)

zepedawingchun said:


> Geezer, I'm sorry to hear you're losing your instructor. You are training in Wing Chun and Kali, correct? Is this your Wing Chun or Kali instructor leaving? If it's the Wing Chun instructor, I'm sure you're at a very proficient level that you could run your own group. If you have all the forms, and applications and concepts to the forms, there is no reason you can't continue to learn and advance in Wing Chun by constant practice.
> 
> Something I find is a lot of times the instructor is not pushed to their limits. You push and physically test your students all the time, but no one pushes you. As an instructor, you need someone at your same level to give you some difficulty and test your skills. You can still get students not at your same skill level to do that. They won't be as good, but, it is still the oportuninty for you to learn something. It's the constant practice in one form or another that helps to build the skill. Be it using concepts from the Biu Jee form, to the long pole and butterfly sword. Junior students can feed you drills to help improve your pole and blade skills. You just have to give them the direction to help them give you what you need to train it.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm inspired


----------



## yak sao (Dec 21, 2010)

Geezer, I'm kind of in the same situation.....my instructor is in NY and I'm in KY. I am only able to see him now a few times a year, so much of my training is me and my small group.
On the plus side, there are 4 of us who are at the same level,( we all have up through the long pole). Plus there are another 6-8 who are through the CK form and are into the first few chi sao sections.
I came to the conclusion awhile back that it's up to me to get this....rather than get all bummed out (which I still do on occasion) that I can't train with my si-fu as regularly as I would like, I try to use this "down time" as an opportunity to hone my basics and bring as many people up to speed as I can so I have that many more training partners.
You have a lot to offer those people in your group, they are lucky to have you there.


----------



## Vajramusti (Dec 21, 2010)

yak sao said:


> Geezer, I'm kind of in the same situation.....my instructor is in NY and I'm in KY. I am only able to see him now a few times a year, so much of my training is me and my small group.
> On the plus side, there are 4 of us who are at the same level,( we all have up through the long pole). Plus there are another 6-8 who are through the CK form and are into the first few chi sao sections.
> I came to the conclusion awhile back that it's up to me to get this....rather than get all bummed out (which I still do on occasion) that I can't train with my si-fu as regularly as I would like, I try to use this "down time" as an opportunity to hone my basics and bring as many people up to speed as I can so I have that many more training partners.
> You have a lot to offer those people in your group, they are lucky to have you there.


-----------------------------------------------------
A good view point on a not uncommon problem. When I had to move to New Mexico from Arizona(Tucson) before I returned to Arizona(Phoenix), I drove practically every weekend
around 540 miles round trip to Tucson for Friday and Saturday classes and privates on Sundays... worked out compromises within the family.. and they were supportive.. I gave up other things (TV., Movies, other travel, and luxuries )to be able to do that. And gave lots of room for my wife's community work.
Geezer has been in wc long enough to branch out and strengthen his own group and get reinforcement from Austin(Texas, that is) when he can.
joy chaudhuri


----------



## geezer (Dec 21, 2010)

yak sao said:


> Geezer, I'm kind of in the same situation.....my instructor is in NY and I'm in KY. I am only able to see him now a few times a year, so much of my training is me and my small group...



Well, as you know, we train essentially the same WT-based system (in fact, way back about '87 I believe I visited your instructor at his house in Statin Island. He was kind enough to show me a bit of chi-sau and then took me out to dim sum the next morning). So if you ever get a hankering to visit Arizona, see the Grand Canyon, or whatever... definitely look me up.


----------



## yak sao (Dec 21, 2010)

geezer said:


> Well, as you know, we train essentially the same WT-based system (in fact, way back about '87 I believe I visited your instructor at his house in Statin Island. He was kind enough to show me a bit of chi-sau and then took me out to dim sum the next morning). So if you ever get a hankering to visit Arizona, see the Grand Canyon, or whatever... definitely look me up.


 
That is a big drawback to WT in the US. I think one of the reasons it's so good in Europe is the number of high level instructors there.

Si-fu is a good host, he's always very generous when we go to NY.  And, you always have a place to train if you ever venture to Louisville. (next time si-fu visits here you are also more than welcome.)


----------



## AceHBK (Dec 21, 2010)

I have been away from this website for such a long time.  So much has changed and I moved around a bit and just moved to Arizona from Minnesota.

Ironically I have sorta been looking to take up WC again and since I am a beginner I was looking for a good instructor to take me under his wing and show me everything.

Not too many schools out here in Phoenix.  I spend my time now training german shepherds for personal protection and sport.

Geezer....got anyone you can recommend out here?  :hmm:


----------



## geezer (Dec 22, 2010)

AceHBK said:


> Not too many schools out here in Phoenix...
> Geezer....got anyone you can recommend out here? :hmm:


 
You bet I can recommend some people. Depending on what part of the Valley you live in and what you want. For Wing Chun (Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun) there's our group, Vajramusti (Joy's) group, and some others. If you like FMA I'm also involved with some Escrima people, including one guy who also coaches MMA fighters. There's a whole underground network of experienced and dedicated guys that aren't into the commercial scene. I'll PM you as soon as I get back to Phoenix (I'm on vacation up in Flag) and give you some contacts.


----------



## Eric_H (Dec 29, 2010)

Geezer,

Sorry to hear that your teacher is having such trouble, seem like a common theme for most of us here around the valley  I don't think we've met but i remember a few past sihing that met you speaking well of you. FWIW I'm always game if you want to meet up for a chi sao and a drink.

Good Luck,
~Eric


----------



## geezer (Dec 29, 2010)

Eric_H said:


> Geezer... FWIW I'm always game if you want to meet up for a chi sao and a drink.
> 
> Good Luck,
> ~Eric



Thanks for the invite! I'd love to have the opportunity to meet you and observe one of your Wu-dang swordsmanship classes. Just keep it quiet though. We can't let it out that folks from different WC lineages actually get along! LOL

Oh and last word, my instructor may not have to leave the area after all... I'll just have to wait and see. I've got my fingers crossed.


----------



## Eric_H (Dec 30, 2010)

geezer said:


> Thanks for the invite! I'd love to have the opportunity to meet you and observe one of your Wu-dang swordsmanship classes. Just keep it quiet though. We can't let it out that folks from different WC lineages actually get along! LOL
> 
> Oh and last word, my instructor may not have to leave the area after all... I'll just have to wait and see. I've got my fingers crossed.



Geezer,

You're right, if they find out we don't hate each other based on lineage we'll lose all that WC street cred  You're more than welcome to join us for some sword anytime. Hope it all works out!


----------



## shaolin_al (Jan 30, 2011)

I just recently noticed this forum. Shifu Steve I know times are rough after speaking to you but be hopeful. I will try and make it back to class soon, so keep the faith


----------



## geezer (Jan 30, 2011)

shaolin_al said:


> I just recently noticed this forum. Shifu Steve I know times are rough after speaking to you but be hopeful. I will try and make it back to class soon, so keep the faith



Good to hear from you Allan. It will be good to see you again soon!


----------



## Svemocn1vidar (Mar 7, 2011)

You are a true Wing Chun practicioner geezer,one can tell! Just do your thing,motivate your students,perfect their skills and your own. What you don't know,you'll learn eventually. Worry not about money invested in your WC,it's never a bad investment. Keep your crew together!
All the best,gl!


----------

