# Magical Aiki technniques?



## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 3, 2006)

Dear friends, what do you think about these techniques as depicted in this clip?

www.geocities.com/talenta_psi_ui/magic_aiki.zip

(right click and SAVE AS. If an error message comes out, something like "data transfer exceeded" then please wait 15-20 minutes, that means the server is busy).

Are those hypnotism? Are those real Waza? Or simply demonstrations of the power of suggestions?


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## Ito-okita (Jul 3, 2006)

*** a jiu jitsu practitioner with some aikido experience I can only ask 1 thing: "What in heaven's name is this ?"


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## KOROHO (Jul 3, 2006)

Where was this taped and who is this?


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## shiho (Jul 4, 2006)

Hi, I watched the clip 3 times and am connvinced it is the magic of Aikido, My personal belief is there is no magic in Aikido, only Mystery, things wich seem unconcievable can be attained in time.I would like to know who it is and where it was filmed .If its for real its a serious display of Ki not magic.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 4, 2006)

KOROHO said:
			
		

> Where was this taped and who is this?


 
In the 90s, it was at an all-Japan Aikido demonstrations to honor 2nd Doshu. I think it was Watanabe shihan who demonstrates.


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## theletch1 (Jul 4, 2006)

I think this borders on the "no touch knockout" thing.  I just don't see where this could be true.  I don't claim to be any sort of master at all so I'm sure there is a lot I don't understand but I'm always skeptical of using ki in the way that it seems to be being used there.


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## KOROHO (Jul 4, 2006)

I thought it was in Japan, where I would expect that it would be more difficult to get away with "Dillman type stunts".

Are we sure this was just not some type of spoof?


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## Kikkervisje (Jul 5, 2006)

I watched the clip and in the beginning I thought that it might be possible because it seemed to me that there was still a slight contact between uke and nage. But I find it a hard time to believe that the last part can actually be true. Of course I am not the person who could possibly judge about things whether they truly work or not, for my own experience is limited, but I am sceptical about the demonstration that is shown there.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 5, 2006)

KOROHO said:
			
		

> I thought it was in Japan, where I would expect that it would be more difficult to get away with "Dillman type stunts".
> 
> Are we sure this was just not some type of spoof?


 
Yes, it was in Japan, as I said, taken at a public demo to honor 2nd Doshu. Nope, it's not a spoof, it's for real. Famous people like Kobayashi shihan and Isoyama Hiroshi shihan also demonstrates at the same event.


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## Robert Lee (Jul 5, 2006)

Looks like more in the line of break falls . Some of it was to much towards just that. And the Uke was really working his part each of them. To bad real life does not happen like that.


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 5, 2006)

So those kind of techniques will never work in real life? Why so? Isn't it possible to train hard to achieve that kind of ability? Or at least develop the power of hypnotism to be able to control the mind of Uke?

I wonder, are those recent innovations of current Aikikai shihans? because I never seen any video of Uyeshiba O-sensei doing things like that.


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## Paul B (Jul 5, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> So those kind of techniques will never work in real life? Why so? Isn't it possible to train hard to achieve that kind of ability? Or at least develop the power of hypnotism to be able to control the mind of Uke?
> 
> I wonder, are those recent innovations of current Aikikai shihans? because I never seen any video of Uyeshiba O-sensei doing things like that.


 
I have..you can see clips of him doing similar movements in the beginning of every Saotome Shihan tape. Yep..former Aikidoka here.

*Edit* Only a thousand times better,of course. That looked like a pretty bad copy of what O'Sensei was showing.


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## tshadowchaser (Jul 5, 2006)

sorry until someone stops me in my tracks with just a movement of their head (not including a good looking lady) I just have trouble beliving the no touch approch of any training
now after the uke is touched thats another subject altogeather


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## MrFunnieman (Jul 5, 2006)

It is my opinion that I witnessed two uke that did not want to embarrass a shihan.  I find it hard to believe something like this could be pulled off in real life against a committed attack.    I would guess it is like a stage magician picking someone out of the audience to act like a chicken.  The audience member will invariably act like a chicken whether they are "hypnotized" or not.
My two cents


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## spinkick (Jul 6, 2006)

I wonder if he can dodge bullets too? cough BS


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 16, 2006)

MrFunnieman said:
			
		

> It is my opinion that I witnessed two uke that did not want to embarrass a shihan. I find it hard to believe something like this could be pulled off in real life against a committed attack. I would guess it is like a stage magician picking someone out of the audience to act like a chicken. The audience member will invariably act like a chicken whether they are "hypnotized" or not.
> My two cents


 
Thank you for your logical explanations. I am sure that sensei cannot dodge bullets either 

So the consensus is that these techniques are more like magic tricks and cannot be relied upon on real fight?


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## green meanie (Jul 16, 2006)

I think as much as we all would like the martial arts to be mystical and magical, the truth is, it's not.  I don't buy it.  :asian:


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## Swordlady (Jul 16, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken, there were people _laughing_ in the background.  I think this was some kind of spoof demonstration.


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## P A Goldsbury (Jul 16, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Thank you for your logical explanations. I am sure that sensei cannot dodge bullets either
> 
> So the consensus is that these techniques are more like magic tricks and cannot be relied upon on real fight?


 
The shihan was Nobuyuki Watanabe 8th dan and the occasion was the annual All-Japan Aikido Demonstration, held every year during May. I myself was present at the event and saw the demonstration. The ukes were Watanabe Sensei's own students, probably attending university.

Watanabe Sensei gives such a demonstration every year and it invariably follows a similar pattern. The demonstrations given by other Aikikai shihans, such as Hiroshi Isoyama and Hiroshi Tada, also follow a set pattern, but are quite different.

All of which, in my opinion, should give rise to the question: what are demonstrations for? What are they supposed to demonstrate?

I should add that I have attended classes in the Hombu taught by Watanabe Sensei. This was some tine ago, but the aikido he taught in these classes was quite different: hard, with full-contact attacks.


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## Shaolinwind (Jul 16, 2006)

jujutsu_indonesia said:
			
		

> Yes, it was in Japan, as I said, taken at a public demo to honor 2nd Doshu. Nope, it's not a spoof, it's for real. Famous people like Kobayashi shihan and Isoyama Hiroshi shihan also demonstrates at the same event.


 
Having practiced Reiki I know that Qi/chi is real.  But I am having a really hard time grasping this.  I went to the referred thread, watched a video, and saw what could have been either an amazing display or a well staged act.  Considering the way the attackers moved, it really did take on a movie-like quality and I am highly, highly skeptical.


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## Shaolinwind (Jul 16, 2006)

~


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## Monadnock (Jul 22, 2006)

Demo's are just that, demos. Typically scripted and rehersed. Looks like they were showing their interpretation of Aiki -- allbeit a different one.

I think there are some no touch "strikes" in the Bujinkan I recall seeing on an old Kobudo no Kihon tape...but I'm kind of foggy on that. I think it involved a ki-ai.

Ki-ai....Ai-ki....hmmm.....


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## jujutsu_indonesia (Jul 24, 2006)

P A Goldsbury said:
			
		

> The shihan was Nobuyuki Watanabe 8th dan and the occasion was the annual All-Japan Aikido Demonstration, held every year during May. I myself was present at the event and saw the demonstration. The ukes were Watanabe Sensei's own students, probably attending university.
> 
> Watanabe Sensei gives such a demonstration every year and it invariably follows a similar pattern. The demonstrations given by other Aikikai shihans, such as Hiroshi Isoyama and Hiroshi Tada, also follow a set pattern, but are quite different.
> 
> ...


 
hello Professor Goldsbury,

Thank you for the information. I am also very sure that Watanabe sensei are capable of doing "conventional" Aikido at very respectable level. It's just the "magic Ki stuff" that surprises me.


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## amir (Aug 1, 2006)

I think a better question would have been: What is the purpose of this demonstration ?

I find it very unlikely that anyone really believes this magic will work against real attacker. But, some demonstrations are not intended to demonstrate effective street defence rather other elements, such as sensitivity of Uke or some other idea.

Amir


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