# Naginata vs Bokken



## Airyu@hotmail.com

Hello Everyone,

Here is another short clip for you ! 

www.bujinkandojo.net/PMultimedia/Naginata.wmv

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## terryl965

Very nice work.
Terry


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## Bigshadow

Nice video!


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## Cryozombie

Thanks for sharing, that was a great video


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## Brian R. VanCise

Definately that is a fun way to play!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## OnlyAnEgg

That was sweet...but, who won?


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## Makalakumu

That video was tight!  I really think that the overall length of the naginata would have won out in the end.  That is one weapon I have ALWAYS wanted to train.  The only thing I can find, though, is videos...


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## OnlyAnEgg

I always thought it'd be a sweet weapon, as well.  Couldn't you modify bo forms to the naginata?  Seems to me they'd have quite a bit in common.


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## Bigshadow

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> That video was tight!  I really think that the overall length of the naginata would have won out in the end.


Not necessarily.  I would say that either one could defeat the other, it is just a matter of who controls the battlefield.




			
				upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> That is one weapon I have ALWAYS wanted to train.  The only thing I can find, though, is videos...


Not to make light of the naginata, but it is a bo with a blade on the end.  So it would seem to me that if you are already familiar with a bo, you shouldn't have much issue with the naginata or the yari.


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## Bigshadow

OnlyAnEgg said:
			
		

> I always thought it'd be a sweet weapon, as well.  Couldn't you modify bo forms to the naginata?  Seems to me they'd have quite a bit in common.



Ooops  I didn't see this.  Yes, I believe, every motion you do with the bo you can do with the Naginata or yari.


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## Makalakumu

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> Ooops I didn't see this. Yes, I believe, every motion you do with the bo you can do with the Naginata or yari.


 
I've heard from people who practice Naginata-do that this was not the case.  The blade changes everything, I guess.  I'm not sure how though...:idunno:


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## Makalakumu

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> Not necessarily. I would say that either one could defeat the other, it is just a matter of who controls the battlefield.


 
There is a distinct advantage offered by the longer reach of the naginata.  I think that if two equally skilled combatants went at it, the naginata would come out on top because of it.  I seem to remember reading that this was the case, somewhere.  I'll see if I can dig it up...


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## Bigshadow

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> There is a distinct advantage offered by the longer reach of the naginata.  I think that if two equally skilled combatants went at it, the naginata would come out on top because of it.  I seem to remember reading that this was the case, somewhere.  I'll see if I can dig it up...


The length is a definitely a nice factor for one side, but that only gets one so far.  I wouldn't be so caught up with the length, of the naginata. Additionally, the only real damaging part of the naginata is either end of it, get beyond that and the advantage diminishes quickly.


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## Bigshadow

upnorthkyosa said:
			
		

> I've heard from people who practice Naginata-do that this was not the case.  The blade changes everything, I guess.  I'm not sure how though...:idunno:



I don't see how it changes significantly, but I am not a master of the naginata. :idunno:


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## Blindside

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> Not necessarily. I would say that either one could defeat the other, it is just a matter of who controls the battlefield.


 
Well, in battlefield terms the katana was the third weapon of choice behind the bow and yari.  Range matters.

Lamont


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## Bigshadow

Blindside said:
			
		

> Well, in battlefield terms the katana was the third weapon of choice behind the bow and yari.  Range matters.
> 
> Lamont



Of course range matters!


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## Deaf

well it is a decent clip but I'm not impressed overall.  I didn't particularly care for the guy's cavalier attitude with him turning his back and walking away numerous times and to be honest.

I really do not believe that the naginata was used to the best of it's ability which is a "long range weapon".  The guy allowed the katana dude to get in too close at times imo


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## Delta

Deaf said:
			
		

> well it is a decent clip but I'm not impressed overall. I didn't particularly care for the guy's cavalier attitude with him turning his back and walking away numerous times and to be honest.
> 
> I really do not believe that the naginata was used to the best of it's ability which is a "long range weapon". The guy allowed the katana dude to get in too close at times imo


 
Hello All,

I'm the 'katana dude' in the clip. I would like to point out a few things to address deafs comments

As to Sensei Lefebvre turning his back to me many times in the vid that is because we would enter the close quarters range where grappling would occur (Him using the weapon to lock and throw me and with me trying to clear obstacles ie the weapon or his arms in order to make a kill shot) that was not the purpose of the demo we were doing. The purpose was to simply show the two weapons fighting. The reason he would turn around and walk away would be to 'reset' and start at long range. As we all know real fights with weapons do not look like what the movies tell us they would. It's quick, fast and over in seconds. Sensei Lefebvre was simply allowing us to continue the game.

As to the naginata not being used as a long range weapon. Do bare in mind that it was my job, with having the shorter weapon to get in close to be more effective. To have simply stood out at long range and tried to duel with Sensei Lefebvre would not have shown how the fight might have looked. He was hitting me, make no mistake, as he is my teacher and any tactic, technique, or trick I know, I know from him. My goal at long range was to push the weapon away in order to let me advance or to take his hands out. Which I got a time or two as his pinkie will tell you that day.

Also, on a final note. Both weapons are made from hickory. The goal of the game we both were playing was to not in fact get hurt while trying to hit each other. This is how we usually warmed up on Saturday mornings before the actual training started. It was control combat. There were lines we did not cross such as entering and trying to go for kill shots or throws as the risk of injury was high. We had other ways to train for those. 

I can appreciate your perspective on the video but I thought it might help to expand on some of your points.

Bufu Ikkan,


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## Ross

Great stuff - thanks for posting that!


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## Deaf

Nicholas,

Thank you for the clarifications.  Watching video without knowing the true intent of what is trying to be shown within the video does cause for "different preceptions" of what is happening.

So thank you once again for the claification.


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## searcher

So by your saying it is "control combat", does this mean that it is a preset kata or is it randori?   Just wondering.


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## Brian R. VanCise

It did not look like a preset kata to me.  It also did not look like each individual was pressing for a finishing technique either.  It definately looked like they were working their skills in a free manner though in as safe a way as one could with booken and wooden naginata.  Hence the term,
controlled combat.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Delta

Hello All,

Deaf- No problem and your right, the video did not come with an explanation so that was I wanted to post. 

Jon- No it wasn't a kata. Brian is correct. We were free flowing. It was a gave and take game. It is definitely lots of fun.

Respectfully,


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## Bigshadow

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> It did not look like a preset kata to me.  It also did not look like each individual was pressing for a finishing technique either.  It definately looked like they were working their skills in a free manner though in as safe a way as one could with booken and wooden naginata.  Hence the term,
> controlled combat.
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com



That is what I thought too, just a video of working on stuff.


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## Brian R. VanCise

When taken in a free flowing manner working on technique it was a very nice video to watch.  I for one particularly like the play of a long weapon versus a shorter weapon.  The differance in reach is dramatic.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Bigshadow

Brian R. VanCise said:
			
		

> When taken in a free flowing manner working on technique it was a very nice video to watch.  I for one particularly like the play of a long weapon versus a shorter weapon.  The differance in reach is dramatic.
> 
> Brian R. VanCise
> www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


I agree, it is alot of fun.  Sometimes we will work unarmed against a bo.  I need to get me a training naginata.


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## Brian R. VanCise

Bigshadow said:
			
		

> I agree, it is alot of fun. Sometimes we will work unarmed against a bo. I need to get me a training naginata.


 
Hey David,

If you need one and do not want to spend a fortune, contact Ed Martin.
I get my Naginata's from him and they are durable and inexpensive. 
Here is a link to his site, look under dojo & then equipment.  He does not advertise that he makes them but he will have them for sale.  I just purchased an additional yari and naginata from him last week: http://www.pennsylvaniabujinkan.com/
Take care.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com


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## Airyu@hotmail.com

Hello Everyone!

Guro Nick great job in explaining what was being presented in the demo!! A little more about the Naginata:

1) It contains both staff and sword aspects
2) It can be utilized in long range (where it really rocks!) or short range
3) This demo was completely free flow
4) The "reset"  and entry points are well coverd by Guro Nicks posts

You should see when this is a multiple opponent vs the naginata!

More videos will be coming!

Train Hard it is the Way!

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Cyber Ninja

Very nice video!


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## chris_&#3617;&#3623;&#3618;&#3652;&#3607;&#3618;

gret video , thanks for sharing!


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## seasoned

Nice to talk about but each weapon served it's purpose for it's time. In the right hands it would be hard to pick.


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## Sensei Tom O'Brien

Looks like it was a fun video to make.  I have experience with the bokken but not the naginata.  I imagine it is hard to get in close against the long range weapon.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom


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