# any good books on ninjutsu?  18 skills?



## martial sparrer (Mar 6, 2013)

I was told shadow warrior by jotaro is a no no

I was looking at the 18 skills of ninjutsu....was on wikipedia.....are these skills what I would learn about If I took classes

Also...there Is a teacher in toronto that will only give black belt status once it is earned....but there is only one belt....does this sound right?

Thanks


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## jks9199 (Mar 6, 2013)

Take a bit and review some of the threads at the top of the Ninjutsu forum; they'll save you a lot of repetitive questions.  I'm pretty sure that there schools of at least 2 of the major ninjutsu organizations in the Toronto area, though you may have to hunt for them a bit.

Right now, it's pretty clear you're operating from a very ficitonalized understanding of what ninjutsu is.  It's not sneaking around, committing assassinations or being invisible, mystic mind control or anything like that.  On the physical side, it's one set of approaches, tactics, and strategies to answer the simple question: how do I survive a violent encounter?  The mental or spiritual side is variable...


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## Chris Parker (Mar 7, 2013)

Right, bit by bit. To begin with, books.

The biggest issue with books is that, even among the legit ones, there are large differences of opinions as to what is "good" and what isn't. It also needs to be clarified what exactly you're looking for... is it history? Philosophy? Techniques? A combination? Bear in mind that things like techniques really shouldn't (and truthfully, can't) be taught via any other medium other than by a teacher, of course, so there aren't any books I'd recommend to a non-practitioner that way. And things like history and philosophy can be rather skewed, or, in some cases, lacking. Really, books are best suited to usage in conjunction with actual training and education... but other than that, no single book or account should be taken as accurate, let alone gospel, and should be taken in context with each other.

For books that might be recommended, you'll typically hear a lot of preference for books from Hatsumi (head of the Bujinkan, and Soke [head of the system] for 9 arts), however he has a tendency to be rather esoteric in his prose, with a lot of word plays and heavy metaphors (for a range of reasons). His earlier books are more accessible... but there are issues there as well (particularly with "his" first, as it was largely not put together by Hatsumi, and features a range of mis-understandings). Early Stephen Hayes books are similar, easier to access, but with some real flaws in the content, as well as a large number of early books (Andy Adams' "Ninja: The Invisible Assassins", for one... I mean, there's no historical evidence for any "ninja" being linked to any assassinations, for one thing...), and so on. In more modern texts, one that could be recommended is Kacem Zhougari's "Ninja: Ancient Shadow Warriors of Japan".... but, again, I'd caution against it, especially as a single, or even really authoritative text. It's more of an ad for the Bujinkan, with some re-telling of some myths and legends, with a bit of history through the mix, and rambles quite a bit. Then again, I'm really far from a fan of Kacem... and he has some fans that seem to almost believe he's borderline infallible.... Tanemura's (head of the Genbukan) book "Ninpo Secrets" is considered one of the better overview books, but again, should be taken in context with everything else. 

What I would recommend are more general books on traditional Japanese martial arts and history, such as the books found at Koryu Books (www.koryu.com), and books like Prof. Karl Friday's Legacy of the Sword, Ellis Amdur's Old School (and Duelling with O'Sensei, both of which are due for a second edition soon), the back lists at the Hoplos Society, the blogs and articles of Kim Taylor, and so on. They will give you a much better sense of what is being discussed when you then move into the more "ninjutsu-specific" areas.



martial sparrer said:


> I was told shadow warrior by jotaro is a no no
> 
> I was looking at the 18 skills of ninjutsu....was on wikipedia.....are these skills what I would learn about If I took classes



Bear in mind that the 18 skills listed are essentially what Hatsumi listed as the major skill-sets of Togakure Ryu (as a specific school), even though a large amount of the specific  skill sets aren't actually related to anything taught in that Ryu (but are found in other Ryu in the Bujinkan and related systems). As to whether or not that would be what you would learn, well, that depends on where you train. And who with.



martial sparrer said:


> Also...there Is a teacher in toronto that will only give black belt status once it is earned....but there is only one belt....does this sound right?
> 
> Thanks



Well, bluntly, no. Firstly, I'm not sure what you mean by saying that the teacher will only give black belt status once it is earned (are you saying that you think it should be awarded before it's earned?), but as to there being only one belt, no. Formally, in the Bujinkan, there are 9 or 10 kyu grades below black belt (often with a white belt and a green belt sometimes [depending on the instructor] a brown as well), but some Bujinkan instructors only really use Dan grades, not bothering with anything below that, so it could be a Bujinkan instructor of that ilk... or it could be a fraudulant teacher. We'd need more details.


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## martial sparrer (Mar 7, 2013)

thanks for your post chris.  I am definitely going to read the books you mentioned.....I would rather dive in the pool rather than stay on the surface.  so I have read and enjoyed hagakure and book of five rings.  these book are mostly the culture and way of life stuff.  do you attach an value to these books in terms of learning about samurai culture?  many other martial arts people have said these are great books.  thanks rocco.


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## Tony Dismukes (Mar 7, 2013)

Chris Parker said:


> What I would recommend are more general books on traditional Japanese martial arts and history, such as the books found at Koryu Books (www.koryu.com), and books like Prof. Karl Friday's Legacy of the Sword, Ellis Amdur's Old School (and Duelling with O'Sensei, both of which are due for a second edition soon), the back lists at the Hoplos Society, the blogs and articles of Kim Taylor, and so on. They will give you a much better sense of what is being discussed when you then move into the more "ninjutsu-specific" areas.



I just wanted to second the recommendation for anything written by Ellis Amdur.  _Dueling with O-Sensei _does an excellent job deconstructing the myths that martial artists tell ourselves about our traditions.


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## Chris Parker (Mar 7, 2013)

martial sparrer said:


> thanks for your post chris.  I am definitely going to read the books you mentioned.....I would rather dive in the pool rather than stay on the surface.  so I have read and enjoyed hagakure and book of five rings.  these book are mostly the culture and way of life stuff.  do you attach an value to these books in terms of learning about samurai culture?  many other martial arts people have said these are great books.  thanks rocco.



Start with the Koryu Books titles. They'll give a basic overview of traditional Japanese arts (although, I will be blunt and point out that they won't really have much to do directly with what is taught in Ninjutsu schools, although they will get you into the context, and give you the beginning of a baseline of comparison), but really, the only way to truly get any kind of handle on these areas is to involve yourself in the arts themselves.

When it comes to Hagakure and the Gorin no Sho, they again really need to be taken in context, and are often quite badly interpreted. We'll start with Hagakure.

Hagakure (Hidden Amongst the Leaves) is an interesting tome. It is attributed to Yamamoto Tsunetomo, a bushi (samurai) in the employ of the Nabeshima clan, and is compiled as a series of stories and anecdotes that Yamamoto dictated to a younger samurai over the course of a number of years in his late life. As such, it is made up of the beliefs of Yamamoto about what a proper samurai is, how they conduct themselves, and what is important for them. It contains the often-repeated statement that "the way of the warrior is found in death", which has a number of different nuances and meanings/interpretations.

But here's the thing.

Yamamoto was never engaged in anything combative. His talk about how a samurai should approach combat, or death, or many other aspects were his idealized form, not necessarily based in any experience. His beliefs and interpretations of what a "proper samurai" was, or should be, would be considered very right-wing and, in many cases, extremist by today's terminology. He directly contradicts many established opinions (to the point where he states that the conventional wisdom is for "samurai from other domains".... in other words, it doesn't fit his ideal form of a samurai and their behaviour), and belittles famous examples of proper behaviour as being "not true samurai", such as the 47 Ronin (his argument was that they should have acted immediately, even if it meant being unsuccessful and being killed, rather than wait a year to ensure success, as he considered that to be borderline with cowardice). So, when reading Hagakure, it needs to be remembered that you're reading one (extremist) point of view, hardly an accurate overview of the beliefs and behaviours of all samurai. 

When it comes to the Gorin no Sho (Book of Five Rings), it's not uncommon for it to be read by martial artists (in general) and non-martial artists in a range of different contexts.... but none of them can get any of the actual lessons (as intended by Musashi) unless they are training in, and part of, Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu, Musashi's school. The reason is that the book was not written as a generalist tome, but as a specific one. It deals with the methods and strategies of Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu itself. And that comes down to why it was written in the first place.

Musashi had many students (some claim thousands), but out of all those, there were three that he felt excelled, and he wanted to leave the art to (by awarding Menkyo Kaiden, full mastery). One who was technically superior, but lacked in understanding of the deeper principles and strategies, one who excelled in his understanding, but lacked in technical ability, and one all-rounder. The all-rounder was fine as he was, and the solution for the practitioner who had understanding but lacked in technical ability is simple (train more!), but for the technical practitioner, granting greater understanding is more difficult. It was for him that the Gorin no Sho was written, as a way of explaining the "why" of the methods of the Ryu and Musashi's teachings. It was given to him with the arrangement that it was to be read, then destroyed.... but a second copy was made (for the lord of the local castle, Hosokawa). It is this Hosokawa copy that has survived.

The point is that the Gorin no Sho is designed, or intended, to be read by someone who is already well versed in the physical methods of the Ryu, and is only really supposed to make sense to someone with that background. Now, that's not to say that, without that background, you can't get anything out of it, but you can't get what is intended. So, yes, it's interesting, and I'd consider it a great book... but what can be gleaned from it is rather removed from what it actually says.

So, I'm not saying for you to not read them.... far from it... but bear in mind what you're reading when you do.



Tony Dismukes said:


> I just wanted to second the recommendation for anything written by Ellis Amdur.  _Dueling with O-Sensei _does an excellent job deconstructing the myths that martial artists tell ourselves about our traditions.



From the latest update I got, Ellis has found a publisher, and is in the process of finalizing the second editions.


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## Meitetsu (Mar 12, 2013)

I may be a bit biased but this one is pretty good Ninjutsu no Gokui http://www.lulu.com/shop/gingetsu-i...erback/product-20279917.html?showPreview=true

A follow up to it called Gendaijin no Ninjutsu "Ninjutsu for the Modern Person" will be out shortly as well.


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