# 50 and sparring



## Glenn67

Is 50 too old to do sparring?A few years ago a trainer did'nt want me to spar and got butthurt about it.Am I right believing I can still do sparring(light at first then progress as I get better) or is he right in not letting me?I'm getting ready to start at a new place and not being able to will be a dealbreaker.


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## Bill Mattocks

Depends on what kind of sparring, but I would say it's not too old.  I regularly spar in my dojo and I'll be 56 in a couple months.  I sparred in tournaments until I was promoted to shodan, which was more or less around the time I turned 50 as I recall.  I only quit sparring in tournaments because a) most of the black belts in my age group who compete are much higher rank than myself, b) I found myself hurting people without meaning to - not because I'm a badass but because we don't train to do 'touch' based sparring in my dojo, and c) no real interest in competing anymore.  It was fun but I'm over it.


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## Headhunter

Of course it's not as long as there's no major health concerns you can do whatever you want


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## Glenn67

Bill Mattocks said:


> Depends on what kind of sparring, but I would say it's not too old.  I regularly spar in my dojo and I'll be 56 in a couple months.  I sparred in tournaments until I was promoted to shodan, which was more or less around the time I turned 50 as I recall.  I only quit sparring in tournaments because a) most of the black belts in my age group who compete are much higher rank than myself, b) I found myself hurting people without meaning to - not because I'm a badass but because we don't train to do 'touch' based sparring in my dojo, and c) no real interest in competing anymore.  It was fun but I'm over it.


I want to start lightly after a couple of month  or so(got to get my cardio back up)I' need to get the movement down and have trained very little in actual sparring.I need it for self defense not competiton.This is going to be a smaller kickboxing muay thai class.I don't feel old or slow and as the weight comes down the speed picks up.I've been out of training a few years now due to circumstances and look forward to going back.I'm 230 and have been training kettlebells so I'm strong enough.I want the cardio up because I know you hit harder as you get tired.I want to be able to control that before I start.I think the smaller class will work better for me.Thanks.


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## Glenn67

Headhunter said:


> Of course it's not as long as there's no major health concerns you can do whatever you want


Health is great.Cardio is my only weakness now and I'm starting tommorrow on it.Moving out of my place now so I can be closer to a place I can train.Not having a car can be a real pain sometimes


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## Touch Of Death

Chokes are a bad idea, but yeah, you should leave.


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## Headhunter

Touch Of Death said:


> Chokes are a bad idea, but yeah, you should leave.


Huh? What does chokes have to do with this guys training and why should he leave?


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## Headhunter

Thing is sometimes it's not just the instructor but maybe they're not insured for people over a certain age to spar I've known some places like this


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## Glenn67

Headhunter said:


> Thing is sometimes it's not just the instructor but maybe they're not insured for people over a certain age to spar I've known some places like this


If that was the case it would have helped by telling me.I really liked their BJJ program and am planning to return to it next year when a new bus line will be running.


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## JR 137

I don't think it's too old, but old is a relative thing.

If the guy is training a bunch of pros and/or pro prospects and he thinks you're going to be more of a hinderance than anything else, then I can KIND OF see his point.

If it's a bunch of kids, like 6-13 years old and you want to spar with them, then yeah, you're too old 

If he's not sure if you can handle it from a health perspective, then ask if you need a physician's clearance (but I haven't seen this for someone who's 50).

If he's just a doucher, then find a better place.  Don't feel bad about not sparring being a deal breaker; it would be for me and a lot of people here too.


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## Danny T

I'm 62 and still sparring.
Be aware getting punched in the head is not a healthy thing for persons of our ages. Taking hard shots to the body can be painful as well.
Soo...
I strongly suggest start by doing some light technical sparring with someone who has good control and who has a good attitude toward helping you get better.
Get used to having strikes coming at you in a manner you can see them and can safely deflect, block, or counter them. As you get better then increase the speed and in time a bit more power. Have fun. Sparring isn't about being better that the other person or beating them...sparring is about learning and growing your skills.


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## Glenn67

JR 137 said:


> I don't think it's too old, but old is a relative thing.
> 
> If the guy is training a bunch of pros and/or pro prospects and he thinks you're going to be more of a hinderance than anything else, then I can KIND OF see his point.
> 
> If it's a bunch of kids, like 6-13 years old and you want to spar with them, then yeah, you're too old
> 
> If he's not sure if you can handle it from a health perspective, then ask if you need a physician's clearance (but I haven't seen this for someone who's 50).
> 
> If he's just a doucher, then find a better place.  Don't feel bad about not sparring being a deal breaker; it would be for me and a lot of people here too.


The only answer I ever got was we will talk but never did happen and I asked the school owner and got the same answer and we never did.I got the feeling I was'nt worth his time but I'm guessing.When I switched to BBJ  I heard him clearly tell another trainer he did'nt care what I thought.I'm going back next year to train BBJ again and wonder what I'm going to get from them if I have to tell them me and this guy won't be training together.Its a trust issue and Its hard to trust him not to try to hurt me out of spite.Maybe this will never come up.I'm probably a year away from his  class level anyway.The hostility seemed way off for a trainer.Still don't get it.


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## Glenn67

Danny T said:


> I'm 62 and still sparring.
> Be aware getting punched in the head is not a healthy thing for persons of our ages. Taking hard shots to the body can be painful as well.
> Soo...
> I strongly suggest start by doing some light technical sparring with someone who has good control and who has a good attitude toward helping you get better.
> Get used to having strikes coming at you in a manner you can see them and can safely deflect, block, or counter them. As you get better then increase the speed and in time a bit more power. Have fun. Sparring isn't about being better that the other person or beating them...sparring is about learning and growing your skills.


That is exactly how I want to do it.never going to really go 100% just want to learn the dodging and deflecting and be able to return well.I've been kicked in the ribs hard plenty of times training.That can be tough on youI got good at dropping my arm and blocking and that eased it a lot.This for me is self  defense.I live in the city and you can see sometimes the way the drinkers on the corner are sizing you up.


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## JR 137

Glenn67 said:


> The only answer I ever got was we will talk but never did happen and I asked the school owner and got the same answer and we never did.I got the feeling I was'nt worth his time but I'm guessing.When I switched to BBJ  I heard him clearly tell another trainer he did'nt care what I thought.I'm going back next year to train BBJ again and wonder what I'm going to get from them if I have to tell them me and this guy won't be training together.Its a trust issue and Its hard to trust him not to try to hurt me out of spite.Maybe this will never come up.I'm probably a year away from his  class level anyway.The hostility seemed way off for a trainer.Still don't get it.



It just doesn't sound like the right place for you.  Keep looking around.  You shouldn't have to beg someone to give you the time of day.  Do you really want to deal with that long term?


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## Glenn67

JR 137 said:


> It just doesn't sound like the right place for you.  Keep looking around.  You shouldn't have to beg someone to give you the time of day.  Do you really want to deal with that long term?


This was one guy and the others were great.Could'nt have asked for better.Guy is still there in the level 2 class but I'm at level one for most of the year I would think.There is a level 2 class at another time if I reach it quickly.If it was more than one trainer I'd go somewhere else  but right now I won't be able to travel to another class.That will change in a couple of years.The school I'm going to check out next month when I move into a new place is 2 blocks away and not this one.It is a Muay Thai school only.Smaller class like when I first started in a different city than I'm in now.The first Muay Thai school really mixed it up with more oriented towards self defense then standard stuff in most schools and he told me his classes were different but I had nothing to compare it too being my first class.You had to  be able to take a little pain sometimes.It was cool though.I really like elbow and knee training and there was a lot less of that in the other class.My opinion which I knew better than to voice was they took it too easy.I figure it will be good to learn basic BJJ and then I plan to move to a more self defense oriented place to train Krav Maga.


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## JowGaWolf

Glenn67 said:


> Is 50 too old to do sparring?A few years ago a trainer did'nt want me to spar and got butthurt about it.Am I right believing I can still do sparring(light at first then progress as I get better) or is he right in not letting me?I'm getting ready to start at a new place and not being able to will be a dealbreaker.


For me I don't think it's too old.  The biggest issue is going to be healing time.  Most people don't spar the same way professional fighters spar, so as long as you can reasonable protect yourself, then sparring should be fine.  You really can't put an age limit on sparring because it's a physical task and not an age related task. There are people in their 20's and 30's that shouldn't be sparring simply because they can't protect themselves enough.  This means that they aren't able to block or avoid the dangerous punches that land clean if you aren't in defensive mode.






If you are taking a martial arts then you can spar and train technique without knocking your partner's head off his shoulders.  There are various levels of sparring intensity.


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## Buka

Welcome to MartialTalk, Glen. And good luck in your search for a school you like.


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## Glenn67

JowGaWolf said:


> For me I don't think it's too old.  The biggest issue is going to be healing time.  Most people don't spar the same way professional fighters spar, so as long as you can reasonable protect yourself, then sparring should be fine.  You really can't put an age limit on sparring because it's a physical task and not an age related task. There are people in their 20's and 30's that shouldn't be sparring simply because they can't protect themselves enough.  This means that they aren't able to block or avoid the dangerous punches that land clean if you aren't in defensive mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are taking a martial arts then you can spar and train technique without knocking your partner's head off his shoulders.  There are various levels of sparring intensity.


At this point its all about technique.I'm thinking maybe I learn to block and dodge before I start attacking.Whenever the trainer thinks is best to start with.


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## Glenn67

Buka said:


> Welcome to MartialTalk, Glen. And good luck in your search for a school you like.


Thanks,I believe I'm going to find a ton of useful info here as I learn.


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## JowGaWolf

Glenn67 said:


> At this point its all about technique.I'm thinking maybe I learn to block and dodge before I start attacking.Whenever the trainer thinks is best to start with.


To be honest the intensity level of sparring can always be adjusted so I don't see why anyone wouldn't be able to spar unless their bodies aren't able to deal with the punishment of physical activity at that level.

The only people who I've restricted from sparring are those who lack enough skills to defend themselves and people who weren't in physical condition to deal with the cardio that is required.  I always remind students to listen to their bodies and tell them that it's ok if they need a break or if they aren't feeling good or feeling up to it.


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## marques

Glenn67 said:


> Is 50 too old to do sparring?A few years ago a trainer did'nt want me to spar and got butthurt about it.Am I right believing I can still do sparring(light at first then progress as I get better) or is he right in not letting me?I'm getting ready to start at a new place and not being able to will be a dealbreaker.


I sparred for a while with a 70 years old guy. He had some serious car accident or something and limited mobility. Yet, he could spar up to 1hr!

If he can, I also believe you can. The remaining question is HOW to spar, since an old body doesn't recover as fast and isn't as strong as a young body. And usually already have some chronic issue...

Virtually everyone can spar under proper conditions.


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## Glenn67

marques said:


> I sparred for a while with a 70 years old guy. He had some serious car accident or something and limited mobility. Yet, he could spar up to 1hr!
> 
> If he can, I also believe you can. The remaining question is HOW to spar, since an old body doesn't recover as fast and isn't as strong as a young body. And usually already have some chronic issue...
> 
> Virtually everyone can spar under proper conditions.


I hope to be that 70 yr. old one day.I cleared up Hep C last year.Got the treatment after years of getting BS'ed and I only had to change doctors to get it.Things I wish I could have known earlier.My strengh is better than most I know.Been kettlebelling the last 6 months.Ready to switch to something different now.The only drawback I can see at the time is a ball on my heel holding up running but I got a fix for that too I can now start doing as I'm moving tomorrow.I expect to be able to run like a deer by the end of summer


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## Tony Dismukes

Speaking as a 52 (about to turn 53 in a couple of weeks) year old who still spars, I think the main thing you have to do is be smart in your choice of sparring partners. You need someone who is both willing and able to do technical sparring at an intensity level you can handle. A lot of beginners don't have the awareness or self-control to work at that level.

If your coach is unwilling to even consider the possibility of allowing you to work up to technical sparring, then you may have to find another school.


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## Glenn67

Tony Dismukes said:


> Speaking as a 52 (about to turn 53 in a couple of weeks) year old who still spars, I think the main thing you have to do is be smart in your choice of sparring partners. You need someone who is both willing and able to do technical sparring at an intensity level you can handle. A lot of beginners don't have the awareness or self-control to work at that level.
> 
> If your coach is unwilling to even consider the possibility of allowing you to work up to technical sparring, then you may have to find another school.


I am going to be starting at another school in a couple of weeks.I'm going to talk with him a lot during the free trial week to make sure I can get what I'm looking for.I'm a beginner at sparring not pad work and on off training times I work the heavy bag and know my technique is good.I work the bag like it is hitting back.Now I need the real thing with the right partner.


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## frank raud

What kind of sparring do you want to do?  Here's a buddy of mine in a stick and knife match at 50  



. That's in 2008, he is prepping for the North American Police and Fire Games now and will be competing in the karate tournament. The legendary Dog Brother, Philip Gelinas was competing in the Gathering of the Tribe this weekend in Los Angeles. He's 65


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## frank raud

Here's an article Perry wrote about the lead up and experience of getting into the ring at 50.

http://perrywkelly.com/mae_fall_2008.pdf


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## Glenn67

frank raud said:


> What kind of sparring do you want to do?  Here's a buddy of mine in a stick and knife match at 50
> 
> 
> 
> . That's in 2008, he is prepping for the North American Police and Fire Games now and will be competing in the karate tournament. The legendary Dog Brother, Philip Gelinas was competing in the Gathering of the Tribe this weekend in Los Angeles. He's 65


I'm interested in both of them.There is a place that trains stick fighting near me and it will be in reach is a couple of years.I have a baton for dogs after I got bit and people do let them lose sometimes around here.I'd like to know how to properly use is before and if I ever might need it against a person.Same with the knife.That is something likely to be used against you here too.Learning to properly defend against it would be a plus.


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## Touch Of Death

Headhunter said:


> Huh? What does chokes have to do with this guys training and why should he leave?


Because he can't spar. Nothing to gain, there.


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## Paul_D

Glenn67 said:


> Is 50 too old to do sparring?A few years ago a trainer did'nt want me to spar and got butthurt about it.Am I right believing I can still do sparring(light at first then progress as I get better) or is he right in not letting me?I'm getting ready to start at a new place and not being able to will be a dealbreaker.


As long as you are sensible.  My Wado instructor went on a course once got a little carried away thinking he could compete with the younger guys.  Injured his shoulder, never recovered and eventually had to give up MA completely.


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## Glenn67

Touch Of Death said:


> Because he can't spar. Nothing to gain, there.


You presume to know I can't spar?What are you the ******* trainer I was talking about?


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## Touch Of Death

Glenn67 said:


> You presume to know I can't spar?What are you the ******* trainer I was talking about?


I'm tempted to run with this, but I was saying, go some place that will let you spar.


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## Glenn67

Touch Of Death said:


> I'm tempted to run with this, but I was saying, go some place that will let you spar.


Then this was my mistake,I thought you were saying I could'nt spar without knowing who I was,It that is so I apologize.


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## Glenn67

Paul_D said:


> As long as you are sensible.  My Wado instructor went on a course once got a little carried away thinking he could compete with the younger guys.  Injured his shoulder, never recovered and eventually had to give up MA completely.


I'm not trying to compete with the younger guys.I want them to help me be the best I can.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Danny T said:


> Sparring isn't about being better that the other person or beating them...sparring is about learning and growing your skills.


Not necessarily. To me, the main reason I spar is for fun/I enjoy it. Learning and growing from it are just side effects.


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## drop bear

You could compete if you wanted. We have a couple of oldies who fight in the masters division.


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## Brian R. VanCise

As you get older you need to be careful but at 50 you can certainly still spar.  Still everything in moderation and being careful with who you are working with would be important as well.  I spar a couple times a week but mostly knife or stick sparring.  I still spar full contact empty hands with grappling but... I am careful.  At this stage I don't let people hit me very much but I have been doing this a long, long time.


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## Touch Of Death

kempodisciple said:


> Not necessarily. To me, the main reason I spar is for fun/I enjoy it. Learning and growing from it are just side effects.


I disagree. Sparring is where you work on something; so, the something was always there.


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## Bill Mattocks

Did some sparring tonight. 3 minutes with a blue belt, bigger than me, 24 or so. Then 3 minutes with an adult white belt.

Fun fun fun.

Teaching-learning. Took time to work on reading attacks and setting up responses. Showed them how to through multiple techniques instead of one and wait to see if it worked. 

Out of cardiovascular shape but kept my wind. Still moving briskly, hands like lightning.

Fyi, I'm slow and it doesn't matter because I'm in my technique.

And also Fyi my sensei is x number of years older than my and can beat me like eggs.


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## Danny T

_"Sparring isn't about being better that the other person or beating them...sparring is about learning and growing your skills."_


kempodisciple said:


> Not necessarily. To me, the main reason I spar is for fun/I enjoy it. Learning and growing from it are just side effects.


You must have missed the point I wrote just prior.
It ended with the period right before; "Sparring isn't about being better..."
I specifically wrote,"Have Fun."


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## Monkey Turned Wolf

Danny T said:


> _"Sparring isn't about being better that the other person or beating them...sparring is about learning and growing your skills."_
> 
> You must have missed the point I wrote just prior.
> It ended with the period right before; "Sparring isn't about being better..."
> I specifically wrote,"Have Fun."


You wrote have fun, but the way I read what you wrote was that improving yourself is the purpose, and having fun was a side effect. To me, having fun is the purpose, and improving myself is the side effect.


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## Tony Dismukes

kempodisciple said:


> You wrote have fun, but the way I read what you wrote was that improving yourself is the purpose, and having fun was a side effect. To me, having fun is the purpose, and improving myself is the side effect.


Hey guys, having fun and improving ourselves can _both_ be the purpose for sparring.

Side effects may include bruises, sore muscles, pulled muscles, strains, sprains, bloody noses, broken bones, concussions, gasping for air, exhaustion, spontaneous combustion*, embarrassment, temporary euphoria from feeling like a badass, and discouragement from being reminded that you aren't nearly as badass as you had previously imagined. Ask your doctor if sparring is right for you.

*(Primarily for practitioners of Kabumei. Occurs in less than .02% of sparring sessions for other martial arts.)


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## Buka

All you old people should be in bed......


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## Danny T

Buka said:


> All you old people should be in bed......


Finished up our midday workout, ate lunch, and in my easy chair prepared for a nap prior to the afternoon sessions begin...does that count?


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## Buka

Danny T said:


> Finished up our midday workout, ate lunch, and in my easy chair prepared for a nap prior to the afternoon sessions begin...does that count?



Absolutely!


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## Bill Mattocks

Buka said:


> All you old people should be in bed......



With whom?


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## Buka

Bill Mattocks said:


> With whom?



.....with no more than 2 twenty five year old women at the same time. 
(Any more and I want to play whist.)


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## Dirty Dog

Unless there is a medical reason why you shouldn't spar, go for it. I've got a student who is 73 who spars...
I was over 50 the last time I sparred in a tourney - and I sparred in the 30-35 year old class, because the "geriatric" class was empty.


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## KangTsai

A doctor just in case perhaps. Otherwise you're fine. We have a head instructor in his mid to late 50s and he looks as if he's in his prime (always fit is what I'm saying).


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