# Woman, 61, arrested for asking why'



## Bob Hubbard (Feb 19, 2010)

> Four women, two of them well into middle age, were discussing funeral  plans for a friend when an Atlanta police officer told them to move.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/woman-61-arrested-for-309285.html?cxtype=rss_news_128746

The 61 yr old woman who is diabetic was held for 9 hours without food.

APD spokesman Lt. Curtis Davenport said Dolson (the arresting officer) is "suspended without pay  for an unrelated incident."  He has numerous complaints since 2001, 3 upheld.

The arresting officer and his partner's stories were not consistent with eye witness testimony, which was.


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## terryl965 (Feb 19, 2010)

I hate to hear about bad police officers, it makes all the good ones look bad as well, I believe we need to have a better screening process to allow people to become a police person.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 19, 2010)

The "without pay" part says alot to me.  Cops get hit with dozens of BS complaints. It makes it harder to weed out the few bad cops as resources are diverted to fight the bogus complaints.

My problem here is this:
There was no problem.
The cop exceeded his authority.
They made up their story.
9 hours without food is bad enough, but add in a diabetic state, and to me that sounds dangerous.


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## MJS (Feb 19, 2010)

IMO, this seems a bit excessive, but of course, I'm not going to take the news article as gospel.  The only thing that comes to mind would be loitering, but unless we know what the laws are in Atlanta regarding that.....

Of course, I'm of the mind, that I'd rather save myself a headache, do what I'm told, at the moment, and then, if need be, file a complaint at the PD.  As far as her having a right to ask why she had to move....well, she's saying she simply asked, the cops are saying she was acting like a nut.  Again, the Chris Rock clip comes to mind.  The handful of times, I've had dealings with the police, I've been polite, even if I felt I did nothing wrong.  

Regarding her medical issues...well, unless I missed it, I saw no mention of her saying anything to the police about it.  Unless the cops were mind readers, they'd have no knowledge of any medical issues, unless she mentioned them.  Now, if she did, and was still put at risk, well, thats a different story.

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.


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## Blade96 (Feb 19, 2010)

say huh....

weird cop.....


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 19, 2010)

> The Citizen Review Board found that Atlanta Police officer Brandy Dolson  had violated APD policies and had falsely arrested Carey.





> Carey and one of the women who was with her that afternoon said Carey  was not loud.
> *The accounts provided by Carey, Dolson,  Dolson&#8217;s partner and  witnesses are essentially the same, according to records.*
> Carey met three friends on the sidewalk outside the Boulevard Lotto  convenience store mid-afternoon last March 26, and for a few moments  they talked about upcoming services for a friend who had died after she  was hit by a car in front of the store where they were standing.
> Dolson and his partner pulled up and told the four women to &#8220;move  it.&#8221;
> ...



"Because I said so" does not equal "I have a legitimate, legal reason backed up by law".

Sorry, but reading the news report this seems a lot like "I have a uniform and a badge and you will Respect my Authority"".

You pull up and tell me to move on, I am going to ask you why. I'm going to ask you what law I'm breaking. I'm going to ask you what I'm doing wrong. 
See, I expect that if you are a cop, that you have a legitimate reason to bother me. I expect that you understand the law that you are sworn to enforce. I expect that you will be a professional in your behavior.

I also expect that if you are unprofessional, if you are threatening, if you are physically confrontational, that the real law will catch up with you, and you will face discipline, and in some cases lose your job, and possibly your own freedom. Just ask David K. Robida.


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## MJS (Feb 19, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> "Because I said so" does not equal "I have a legitimate, legal reason backed up by law".
> 
> Sorry, but reading the news report this seems a lot like "I have a uniform and a badge and you will Respect my Authority"".
> 
> ...


 

I'm not going to disagree with the fact that there're many who seem to let the badge and gun go to their head.  Even when I was working with the DOC, dealing with dirtbags on a daily basis, when I gave an inmate an order, I always did my best to be polite....firm, but polite.  Of course, there were times when that polite tone changed, when they started being jerks, but anyways...point being, if you're a dick, you're not going to get respect.  

Regarding the standing on the sidewalk:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loitering

From the article:

"Carey met three friends on the sidewalk outside the Boulevard Lotto convenience store mid-afternoon last March 26, and for a few moments they talked about upcoming services for a friend who had died after she was hit by a car in front of the store where they were standing."

I'm interested in the exact amount of time they were standing there.  Whats a 'few moments' defined as?  30sec?  2min? 10min?  I"m also interested in the exact laws for that city/town, regarding loitering.  

On a side note, I was in the train station, waiting for the train to go to NYC.  I popped into one of the small stores, to get a magazine for the ride.  I picked one up, glanced at it for no more than a minute, to see if it was something that I would actually be interested in, and the clerk behind the counter, told me that I couldn't do that.  I had to either put it back on the shelf or buy it, but I couldn't read it.  Needless to say, I placed it back on the shelf and walked out.  For the sake of discussion, I guess I was loitering in the store. *shrug*


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## Carol (Feb 20, 2010)

Doesn't sound like loitering to me...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_loitering_law_for_Georgia


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 20, 2010)

My point is, just because a cop says to do something, it doesn't mean you have a legal requirement to do it.

Of course, there are right and wrong ways to handle things.  

If you tell me to move along, and I ask why, and you say "because I said so", that doesn't establish a reason.

If I ask "what law says I have to" and you get pissed, that still doesn't establish that it was a lawful order.

If you tell me to move, and I ask why, and you say "because the law says you have to", and I go and look up that law and find it doesn't exist, what happens to your credibility as a cop? (Happens to photographers all the time, imaginary no-photo laws). The next time I'm stopped I would inform the officer that no such law exists, could he please cite the specific code so I could confirm it later.  Any guess on what happens to me next?


For the record, I loiter all the time.  Any time I take a walk and stop to catch my breath I'm loitering.  I've stopped and sat on curbs, leaned on walls, sat under trees. All of this on a main public street sidewalk.  I've also been seen crawling on the ground, under bushes, and along fences, camera in hand. Sometimes in the day, occasionally at 2, 3 am.  If I got stopped, I would ask for particulars and law citations, in as polite and non threatening manner as I can.  That whole, want to avoid mace and nightstick as neither are good for my health.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 20, 2010)

Regarding the business, they can make their own rules.  See photos in the mall for example. No law says you can't do that. That's mall policy, and you can follow it or shop elsewhere.  I avoid any store that won't let me look around, and I avoid any store that follows me around or gives me the 'either buy something or leave' bit.  I've watched a few of them close as they drove their customers away.


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## Archangel M (Feb 20, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> My point is, just because a cop says to do something, it doesn't mean you have a legal requirement to do it.
> 
> Of course, there are right and wrong ways to handle things.
> 
> ...



I see where you are coming from Bob. But be aware of the "PUT YOUR HANDS UP!", because we think you may be the robbery suspect we are being dispatched to, scenario. A "why do I have to" in that situation may just get you Tased, Sprayed or tackled.

It's all in using your head.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 20, 2010)

There is a common sense aspect here.  A cop says stop, I stop.  hands up, they go up.  Now, show me ID might not get you ID.  I often don't carry a drivers license when I'm walking.  Let me see your pictures will get a why. It might also get a request from me to shoot (ie photograph) the patrol car if it's clean and in good repair. (I don't have a cop car in my port yet).  

I also don't plan on trying the "oh ****", turn run, then when asked why I ran say "you looked like my cousin who I owe money to." bit.  (My cousin's a Buffalo cop)


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## Deaf Smith (Feb 20, 2010)

> "suspended *without pay* for an unrelated incident."


 
That tells alot. Without pay means the higher ups really do think he deserves to be fired. When they suspend with pay it means it's a routine thing and most likely they will be back.

The cop obviously has a big head and problems with his extra-legal rights due to being a LEO. I also suspect his other problems are a result of the same attitude.

Most cops are not like this guy. But it takes just one to sourer alot of people on them.

Deaf


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2010)

Well, if that link is in fact the exact, current law regarding loitering, then it seems to me, that they were ok to be there.  If they were in fact causing a disturbance, blocking the sidewalk, blocking the entrance to the business they were in front of, etc, then sure, in that case, I could see cause to tell them to move and if necessary, arrest someone, but in this case, I'm not seeing that, unless there is more to the article/story, that we dont know.


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## DeLamar.J (Feb 21, 2010)

Its best to just move along if a cop asks you to. Its not worth questioning. Cops have the power to make your life miserable, and most of the time they get away with the dirty things they do. Thats why they do it, because usually they will rarely get in trouble. 

Say a cop has a bag of dope on him from another person he stopped, and let them go because he was a old friend or something, then pulls you over and dont like your attitude. Searches your car and pretends he found the bag of dope in your car. What is your defence? It wasnt mine! will get you lol'ed at. And if you had any prior convictions, and cleaned up your act to live a crime free life, just the fact that you were in trouble in the past will take all credibility from your defence. Think about it


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2010)

DeLamar.J said:


> Its best to just move along if a cop asks you to. Its not worth questioning.


 
QFT!  This is what I was talking about in my first post.  Sometimes, IMO, its better to just do whats asked, check your pride/ego, and move on with your business, and if you really feel it necessary, file the complaint later on.  But at the moment, just do whats asked.  

This may not be the favorite thing to do, in the eyes of some, but IMO, its better than being a jerk and brining on a **** storm that you may regret later on.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 21, 2010)

Ok, but let me be deviled advocate here.

Cop illegally violates my rights. We'll use the 'move along because I said so' bit here.
I obey the unlawful order. My rights are violated.  I file a complaint. Cop gets at best a wrist slap. My rights were still violated.

So, what happens the next time?  Do I move on again? Do I tell the cop "last time you said that, your boss said you were wrong. By the way, I checked, and that law you said I was violating? Yeah, it doesn't exist. I checked, and your boss confirmed it."

So, here's my question.

How many teeth will I lose when he bounces my head off the pavement then cites me for "disobeying a cop", and "assaulting a sidewalk", and "littering" (for the teeth I left there" and "creating a biohazard" (for the blood I spill as a result), as well as "disturbing the peace" (my screams of pain), "obstruction of a law enforcement officer in the performance of his duties" (not obeying the unlawful order), "obstruction of a public right of way" (because I fell down when he hit me), etc?

Or, do I again allow him to violate my rights, file yet another minor complaint that goes no where?

On one hand I avoid potential pain, physical harm and significant financial and time drains. On the other hand, my rights are violated.

What's the point of having rights then?

If civilians do not stand up to cops issuing unlawful orders and pushing non-existent laws, what is there to stop them from violating our rights? If we do not stand up for those rights, we lose them by default.

"But Bob, all they were asked was to move. What's the big deal?"

Move. Stand here, no there. Let me see your ID. Answer these 20 questions. Lets see whats in that bag. Show me your pictures. Delete your pictures. Don't take those pictures. Don't film me. Don't record me. No I won't tell you my name or badge number. No I don't have to explain it just do as I say.

Where does it stop before "whats the harm" becomes "no choice."

Cops are to defend and enforce the law.
Not create the law.
Not above the law.
Bound by the law.
Must operate within the law.

Most cops get that.  Some, like the subject of the OP, think otherwise.  

Am I wrong here?


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## Archangel M (Feb 21, 2010)

Not being confrontational with this Bob, just furthering a conversation:

But I find it a bit conflicting that on one thread you are advocating accepting the risk of physical harm to fight for your rights but on another you are advocating to "not get involved" in helping a cop getting beat up because of the risk of physical harm.

I think that perhaps you are just looking to debate some reasonable issues, but it seems either contradictory or a tad "anti".

Just lobbing the conversation ball back to your side of the net.


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## xJOHNx (Feb 21, 2010)

Although I think that I shouldn't meddle in this discussion. 
I can't help but post something, someone wiser than me said.



> The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.


Ayn Rand.

And the situation the woman was in, is horrible.


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Ok, but let me be deviled advocate here.
> 
> Cop illegally violates my rights. We'll use the 'move along because I said so' bit here.
> I obey the unlawful order. My rights are violated. I file a complaint. Cop gets at best a wrist slap. My rights were still violated.
> ...


 
See, I attribute this to walking away, vs. fighting with some jackoff who yells at you because you 'supposedly' cut him off in traffic.  We could walk away, chalking it up to the guy simply being an *******, or we could challenge what he's saying.  Now, for what its worth, every time someone accusses me of cutting them off, I dont always walk away.  I'll give in to their antics, and yell back.  But the more I think of it, in the end, its not worth me giving in to him, so short of the guy trying to physically assault me, yes, I usually sputter a few things, and go about my business.  

The issue with the police....it sounds to me, as if people are trying to say there're more bad than good.  Are we that fearful in todays world, where we have to worry that God forbid we pass by a cop, that he may, yell at us, slam us against a car, take us to the ground, etc.?  Again, I'm not saying that there are no bad cops out there, and I'm sure we've all seen cases, but come on....if we're going to be that afraid....





> How many teeth will I lose when he bounces my head off the pavement then cites me for "disobeying a cop", and "assaulting a sidewalk", and "littering" (for the teeth I left there" and "creating a biohazard" (for the blood I spill as a result), as well as "disturbing the peace" (my screams of pain), "obstruction of a law enforcement officer in the performance of his duties" (not obeying the unlawful order), "obstruction of a public right of way" (because I fell down when he hit me), etc?
> 
> Or, do I again allow him to violate my rights, file yet another minor complaint that goes no where?
> 
> ...


 
I've taken calls, and still do, to this day, from residents and store owners, who complain about large groups of kids or adults, that're just 'hanging out' not really doing anything wrong per se, other than just hanging out, and I have to send a cop to move them along, no matter how stupid I may think the call is.  

A state cop pulled me over one night on the highway.  I was coming home from work (not the job I have now), saw something going on, on the other side of the highway, so I did what everyone else does...I rubbernecked, and in the course of this, swerved a bit.  He was in an unmarked car.  I saw a car behind me, but thought nothing of it.  Next thing I know, he lights me up.  I explained what happened, but still had to show my DL and reg., answer where I was coming from/going to, etc.  Real nice cop, I explained that I lived right off the exit ramp, was on my way home, apologized for the slight swerve, and that was that.  No issues, no pat downs, no search of the car, nothing.  Now, had I gave him a hard time, I could almost bet that I'd have had a miserable time.  

Then again, we're assuming that the worst thats going to happen, will be a wrist slap.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 21, 2010)

Archangel M said:


> Not being confrontational with this Bob, just furthering a conversation:
> 
> But I find it a bit conflicting that on one thread you are advocating accepting the risk of physical harm to fight for your rights but on another you are advocating to "not get involved" in helping a cop getting beat up because of the risk of physical harm.
> 
> ...





MJS said:


> See, I attribute this to walking away, vs. fighting with some jackoff who yells at you because you 'supposedly' cut him off in traffic.  We could walk away, chalking it up to the guy simply being an *******, or we could challenge what he's saying.  Now, for what its worth, every time someone accusses me of cutting them off, I dont always walk away.  I'll give in to their antics, and yell back.  But the more I think of it, in the end, its not worth me giving in to him, so short of the guy trying to physically assault me, yes, I usually sputter a few things, and go about my business.
> 
> The issue with the police....it sounds to me, as if people are trying to say there're more bad than good.  Are we that fearful in todays world, where we have to worry that God forbid we pass by a cop, that he may, yell at us, slam us against a car, take us to the ground, etc.?  Again, I'm not saying that there are no bad cops out there, and I'm sure we've all seen cases, but come on....if we're going to be that afraid....
> 
> ...



Gonna wander a bit here. Apologies.  


It's a matter of choosing ones battles based on understanding the full  situation and possible outcomes.  A former member of this site once  asked me if a particular issue was "a hill worth dying on".   Helping a  cop, or anyone for that matter who is in danger is a different "hill" as  it were than defending ones rights.

I have a right to privacy. Except.....and there's a whole list where  that right is trumped. But I still have a right to privacy.
I have a right not to be unreasonably detained. Except....and there's a  whole list where a cop can detain me. 
And so on.
Why, when the law already states a set number of situations where I have  to obey a LEO, should I give them more?  In all bluntness, it would  assist LEO greatly if we required everyone to have their ID tattooed on  their foreheads, but that's unlikely to happen this year.

Cops enjoy special privileges in order to do their thankless and  dangerous jobs efficiently. I'm happy to allow you that, once I better understand it. That doesn't give you unlimited power  though, nor make you above me.  Most cops know this, that they are  working for the common good of the people they serve.  A few like the  one in the OP, and that idiot in Akron OH, think a uniform and a badge  means you are entitled to that free coffee, and that the public should  step aside.  A bully in uniform is just that, a bully. 

Look at ID's.  You stop me and demand my ID.  Now, I'm just walking down  the street here, not operating a vehicle.  Maybe I'm sitting on my  porch and you pull up and demand my ID. I don't have it. Why should I?  I'm on my property.  I'm unaware of any law in any community that says I  need ID on my own porch. Of course, I can't prove it, my ID is in the  house. You won't let me go get it. So I have to go down to the station  with you, call someone, have them take time to bring it down, so I can  go back to the home you took me from. Why? Because I didn't have my  "papers" yet I am under no requirement to have them. I broke no law,  but, you (generic you) make up one. Or you cite an existing one. I'm not  charged, but I sure am intimidated. Now, If I had ID and showed it to  you, we're done in 5 minutes. But, I'm not required to have it, and  there's no legal reason to show it (in most cases), so why should I have  it? Again, hours wasted, I'm inconvenienced, and possibly intimidated.

Is that the goal of a cop? To intimidate honest law abiding citizens? To  waste my time and steal hours of my life so that you can look busy?

Mind you, I'm typing this conversationally, not in an enraged state. I'm  clarifying here so that there's no misunderstanding of any anger or  malice intended here.

This woman here dared to ask a cop why he was issuing an unlawful order.
She was arrested, lost 9 hours of her life, and had to deal with 3 court  appearances.
Only to have the charges tossed.

How much money did that cost her?  The Taxpayers of Atlanta?

Because this cop thought he was above the law.

If I'm standing on a corner, I want to know 2 things.
1 that I'm safe.
2 that any cop I encounter will be polite and professional, and not a jerk.

99.9% of the cops I've dealt with have been that. Polite and professional.
I've only encountered 1 cop who lied under oath. (I'm sorry, but you do not calibrate those radars every morning, nor are your in car speedometers calibrated daily.)

Now, I'm not advocating digging in ones heels, and arguing and causing a huge blow up. I'm saying you choose your battles.  Sometimes, it's better to give up ground. 

I have a lot more respect for the cops who know the law, and enforce it, and don't have to make up stuff to push their "authority" around. I'm polite and professional in my direct dealings with cops. I'll sir you to death.  But I have nothing but contempt for the bully cops.  

Put another way, just because it's convenient, doesn't make it right.

Aren't cops supposed to protect our rights, not violate them?

Now, on the loitering aspect, teens hang out in store doorways all around me. Hard to shag their asses out, we've had store owners threatened when they tried.  Cops come, kids move, later on windows get broken. That's different though from a couple of old ladies on a sidewalk.  Unless one of them is Grandma Gracie. 

Now, I do realize I'm likely annoying some with this. I'm sorry. But I've learned a lot from these in-depth exchanges, and hope others have too, on both sides of the 'blue line' as it were. If I have a key purpose for these debates, it's to expand on our understanding of rights, laws, etc.  and improve our in person interactions, and help restore public trust in law enforcement. Something sadly lacking in some areas, both by fault and no fault of the local cops.

:asian:


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## MJS (Feb 21, 2010)

Bob Hubbard said:


> Gonna wander a bit here. Apologies.
> 
> 
> It's a matter of choosing ones battles based on understanding the full situation and possible outcomes. A former member of this site once asked me if a particular issue was "a hill worth dying on". Helping a cop, or anyone for that matter who is in danger is a different "hill" as it were than defending ones rights.


 
Well, I agree...knowing the possible outcomes is always a plus.  Personally, I dont assume or feel that the cops are out to get me, harrass me, etc.  Then again, common sense should tell you (not singling you out Bob, just using the word you as a ref. point. ) that if you yell back at the jerk on the street, that maybe he'll get pissed and come after you, just like if you yell at the cop, run, fight, whatever, that you may get in more hot water, than you initially would have, were you to just cooperate in the first place. 

As far as helping the police....well, I wasn't involved in that thread, but I'll put in my .02 anyways.  If I were to see a male and female fighting in the street, I'd be less likely to physically help.  Why?  Because the odds of the 'victim' suddenly turning on me, are high.  I'd rather call for help.  If I saw a cop fighting with someone, I would either call for help on my cell phone or use his car radio.  Were I to jump in to help him, if at all possible, I would ask if he wanted help.  Last thing I want him to think, is that I'm coming to help the bad guy.  Of course, getting physically involved, I know that I do have a high chance of getting hurt or worse. 



> I have a right to privacy. Except.....and there's a whole list where that right is trumped. But I still have a right to privacy.
> I have a right not to be unreasonably detained. Except....and there's a whole list where a cop can detain me.
> And so on.
> Why, when the law already states a set number of situations where I have to obey a LEO, should I give them more? In all bluntness, it would assist LEO greatly if we required everyone to have their ID tattooed on their foreheads, but that's unlikely to happen this year.


 
Agreed, however, if they're conducting an investigation, I feel that its only right to cooperate, whether I feel its wrong or right.  At that moment, I dont want to bring any extra issues on myself.  Cop wants to search my car, go for it pal...I have nothing to hide.  Cop wants me to get out and pat me down, fine, go for it, again, nothing to hide.  



> Cops enjoy special privileges in order to do their thankless and dangerous jobs efficiently. I'm happy to allow you that, once I better understand it. That doesn't give you unlimited power though, nor make you above me. Most cops know this, that they are working for the common good of the people they serve. A few like the one in the OP, and that idiot in Akron OH, think a uniform and a badge means you are entitled to that free coffee, and that the public should step aside. A bully in uniform is just that, a bully.


 
Agreed, and I've said many times that there are bad apples that ruin the bunch.  



> Look at ID's. You stop me and demand my ID. Now, I'm just walking down the street here, not operating a vehicle. Maybe I'm sitting on my porch and you pull up and demand my ID. I don't have it. Why should I? I'm on my property. I'm unaware of any law in any community that says I need ID on my own porch. Of course, I can't prove it, my ID is in the house. You won't let me go get it. So I have to go down to the station with you, call someone, have them take time to bring it down, so I can go back to the home you took me from. Why? Because I didn't have my "papers" yet I am under no requirement to have them. I broke no law, but, you (generic you) make up one. Or you cite an existing one. I'm not charged, but I sure am intimidated. Now, If I had ID and showed it to you, we're done in 5 minutes. But, I'm not required to have it, and there's no legal reason to show it (in most cases), so why should I have it? Again, hours wasted, I'm inconvenienced, and possibly intimidated.


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

Cops where I work, routinely get involved in cases, in which the person(s) they're dealing with, dont have an ID on them, so they run their name and DOB.  As someone said earlier...perhaps they pull up and stop you, because you match a description of someone they're looking for, etc.  There have been times, when suspects in a crime, got into a car and left the area.  The victim describes the car, only as a black, 4dr. car with 3 people inside.  No plate available.  So now, you can bet that should you be driving a black 4dr car, with 2 of your friends inside, that you will probably be stopped and questioned.  Doesn't mean you did anything wrong, only that you happened to be driving the same car as the suspects.  



> Is that the goal of a cop? To intimidate honest law abiding citizens? To waste my time and steal hours of my life so that you can look busy?


 
Nope.  But again, this almost sounds like more times than not, this is what they do.  I disagree.  




> This woman here dared to ask a cop why he was issuing an unlawful order.
> She was arrested, lost 9 hours of her life, and had to deal with 3 court appearances.
> Only to have the charges tossed.
> 
> ...


 
As I said in an earlier post, I dont want to use this article as gospel.  Is it a complete article?  Is there stuff missing?  If in fact, these women were doing nothing wrong, I have no issues with saying the cop was wrong.  



> 99.9% of the cops I've dealt with have been that. Polite and professional.
> I've only encountered 1 cop who lied under oath. (I'm sorry, but you do not calibrate those radars every morning, nor are your in car speedometers calibrated daily.)


 
I can only assume that there are set maintenance times for those things.  Were I work, the cops that do run radar, have (and forgive me if I'm not describing it correctly) something to the effect of a tuning device.  This is what I'm talking about.





> Now, on the loitering aspect, teens hang out in store doorways all around me. Hard to shag their asses out, we've had store owners threatened when they tried. Cops come, kids move, later on windows get broken. That's different though from a couple of old ladies on a sidewalk. Unless one of them is Grandma Gracie.


 
Sad but true.  This is why, many times, people wish to remain anonymous.  I mean, you get 10 kids, with nothing better to do, standing in front of a store, not buying anything, and intimidating others that may want to enter the store, well, now the store owner is losing business.


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## Bob Hubbard (Feb 21, 2010)

Keep in mind too, that when I say it's ok to ask a cop why I'm talking about doing so in a polite and non-confrontational manner, not the attitude laced chip on shoulder way.

I will always question authority.  Defying it, that's a different matter.

Keep in mind, I have invited FBI into my home, with a weapons collection in plain view. It was, amusing.   (note to any FBI reading - hire more agents who aren't allergic to cats. )


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