# Electric car system that might work...



## billc (Jan 27, 2012)

I am not personally against the electric car, as some might think here on the talk, but only government manipulation to force us into electric cars because of a silly global warming hysteria, and helping their cronies make money.  For example, our governor here in illinois wants to charge a dollar on your renewal fee for your license plates for electric car infrastructure.  That is a waste of money in a state already broke.  However, this article details an electric car system that might actually work...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/is-israel-making-the-electric-car-work/



> That deal is even better than it sounds for several reasons. You  don&#8217;t actually buy the very expensive battery, but only lease it along  with all the electricity you&#8217;ll ever use. Any time that it becomes  empty, you can swap it at no additional charge.
> 
> By June, all of Israel will be serviced by a network of battery swap  stations. You drive in to what resembles a car wash, sit in your car for  4 minutes, and the automatic system swaps your battery for a full one.  The robotic station than recharges the old battery overnight for another  vehicle. The battery has at least a 100-mile range &#8212; a huge headache in  the United States, but far less daunting in a small country like  Israel. About the longest drive you&#8217;d ever take, the 220 miles from Tel  Aviv to Eilat, can be accomplished with two quick battery swaps.



It is still not better than using gas, but at least someone is spending more time thinking about making it work and not  on how to use the government to force people into electric cars by making gas more expensive, or raising fees on regular cars to make electric ones more competitive.


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## Steve (Jan 27, 2012)

The idea of leasing tge battery is one that nissan considered, but it wasn't possible in the usa because it amounts to selling a car without a drive train.  In other words, without the battery, it's not a car.



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## billc (Jan 27, 2012)

I have to go, but a four minute fuel time would meet my complaint about how long charging takes.  I like that kind of thinking to get around that problem.  If you could also plug in at home, as well as change it out, at a cost the same as or less than filling up on gas, and you have one problem solved.


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## Steve (Jan 27, 2012)

the idea of swapping batteries is something I brought up well over a year ago.  but the way that our auto sales and registration is set up, you wouldn't be able to register the car without a drive train.

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## MaxiMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Interesting. But I'm still waiting for a truck


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## Rich Parsons (Jan 27, 2012)

MaxiMe said:


> Interesting. But I'm still waiting for a truck



http://www.hybridcars.com/trucks/gm-hybrid-pickup-trucks.html

Hybrid, not a Plug in yet.


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## Omar B (Jan 27, 2012)

And here I am seriously thinking of droppin' a Cummins or Allison turbo diesel into my car.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2012)

What's stopping you, Omar?


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## Omar B (Jan 30, 2012)

Not a damn ting.  I'm actually looking at a 850HP Cummins engine right now.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2012)

Sounds great.  I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks.  The area is rural and lots of people work on farms.  We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too.  Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.

But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology.  Everyone makes choices based upon priorities.  For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it.  Not my business.  

Point is, everyone makes decisions, but the more choices, the better.  I've had to learn to live with my EV.  While nothing major, I drive a little differently now than I did with a gas car.  But the trade off for me has been well worth it.  I haven't been to a gas station since June and have over 7000 miles in my EV now.  I have saved *over *$1250 in gas in just 6 months, plus another $40 on the oil change I no longer need.  My total cost in operating the car: less than $250 in electricity (although I'm going to need to replace the wiper blades soon).  I would need some MAJOR incentives to ever go back to a gas car voluntarily.  I don't even enjoy the way they ride now.  

The only thing that bugs me is that the same guys who ***** about government subsidies of EVs and alternative fuels are also the first to expect the Fed to step in and subsidize oil if prices go up (and blame Obama, too).  It's hypocrisy.  

Well, honestly, the insecurity of SUV owners bugs me, too.  I've found that people who drive in SUVs are far more worried about what I'm driving than I am of them.


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## Carol (Jan 30, 2012)

Steve said:


> Sounds great.  I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks.  The area is rural and lots of people work on farms.  We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too.  Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.
> 
> But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology.  Everyone makes choices based upon priorities.  For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it.  Not my business.
> 
> ...



I dunno if its insecurity, but there was a stretch of years where it seemed like "SUV driver" was spat like a curse word and we were being strung up as the Devil incarnate if an environmental issue came up in conversation.  Or the criticism that I don't "need" an SUV.  Hey, so-and-so doesn't have one, why do you need one?  It gets tiring.  But it doesn't bother me what you drive....I think its awesome that you are driving an EV and even more awesome that you're sharing your experiences.  

And I agree with you 100 percent, the more choices the better IMO.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2012)

Carol said:


> I dunno if its insecurity, but there was a stretch of years where it seemed like "SUV driver" was spat like a curse word and we were being strung up as the Devil incarnate if an environmental issue came up in conversation.  Or the criticism that I don't "need" an SUV.  Hey, so-and-so doesn't have one, why do you need one?  It gets tiring.  But it doesn't bother me what you drive....I think its awesome that you are driving an EV and even more awesome that you're sharing your experiences.
> 
> And I agree with you 100 percent, the more choices the better IMO.


Well, I definitely have a bias against women who drive SUVs, but it has nothing to do with their gas mileage. 

Seriously, though, there's a lot of pigeonholing that goes on.  People presume a lot of things about you based on what kind of car you drive.  If you're a guy in a Miata, the stereotype is that you're gay.  Guys in lifted trucks are overcompensating.  Guys in porsches are rich but still overcompensating.  Etc, etc.  And electric cars are for treehugger, envirokooks.  

Ultimately, though, buying into the stereotypes only make us easier to manipulate.  Bob drives a Prius, and we all know that Prius owners are pompous, well to-do, liberal elitists, and we HATE them.  Conversely, Judy drives an SUV, and we all know that SUV owners are pretentious, selfish, self-centered jerks, and we HATE them!    

And all it takes is one YouTube video recording someone having a very bad day and it's all over.


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## ballen0351 (Jan 30, 2012)

Omar B said:


> Not a damn ting.  I'm actually looking at a 850HP Cummins engine right now.


What kinda car do you have?  Heres what you need that turbo winding up sounds so cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUiDQd2NZpU&feature=related


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## ballen0351 (Jan 30, 2012)

Steve said:


> And all it takes is one YouTube video recording someone having a very bad day and it's all over.



Sorry coulndt resist 





Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MG--TMe7j8&feature=related


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## Omar B (Jan 30, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> What kinda car do you have?  Heres what you need that turbo winding up sounds so cool:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUiDQd2NZpU&feature=related



Lexus ES350.  Already fast as heck and handles like a dream because it's a Lexus.  I wanna make it the ultimate sleeper.  

Couple weeks ago I saw on Pimp My Ride they put an Allison Diesel in an old 70's Monte Carlo and it got zero to sixty in under three seconds and beat a Lambo in a quarter mile.  Allison engines are cool, but when my grandfather owned the trucking company my dad and uncles used to always go with a Cummins engine in all the trucks so I would prefer to go that route.

Dude, that video rocked!  The engine sounds so great just running, then the friggin turbo started spooling up and I couldn't  keep the smile off my face.  I've now made that video a favorite.


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## Steve (Jan 30, 2012)

There's a street legal, 100% EV Datsun 1200 that runs 0 to 60 in 1.8 seconds.  That's my idea of a sleeper.


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## Omar B (Jan 30, 2012)

Nah.  It would stand out too much.  I'm planning on using my father's ES350 because it's 5 years old and trade him my new ES350 for it.  Heck, if I could get away with it in a Camry I would.  A sleeper has got to look as standard and as stock as you can get.

Oh, btw, I'm now on like my 9th viewing of that same youtube vid.


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## Steve (Mar 30, 2022)

Steve said:


> Sounds great.  I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks.  The area is rural and lots of people work on farms.  We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too.  Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.
> 
> But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology.  Everyone makes choices based upon priorities.  For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money.  As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it.  Not my business.
> 
> ...


Well, 10 years later, and I have ordered my third EV.  We ordered a base model (Select trim) Mustang Mach E.  About 220 mile range, and plenty of room for the hounds (though it will be cozy).   

I miss that Leaf, though I will admit that I liked my PHEV C-Max a lot, too.  I didn't think I would care for a PHEV, but found that with the regenerative breaking and everything, I would fill up my gas tank like once every 6 months.  It was great.  

That said, 200 miles is plenty of range for me, and we have another car if we need to go further.


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## geezer (Apr 22, 2022)

Steve said:


> Well, 10 years later, and I have ordered my third EV.  We ordered a base model (Select trim) Mustang Mach E.  About 220 mile range, and plenty of room for the hounds (though it will be cozy).
> 
> I miss that Leaf, though I will admit that I liked my PHEV C-Max a lot, too.  I didn't think I would care for a PHEV, but found that with the regenerative breaking and everything, I would fill up my gas tank like once every 6 months.  It was great.
> 
> That said, 200 miles is plenty of range for me, and we have another car if we need to go further.


Hmmm... 200 miles isn't enough for the traveling I do, and I don't have a garage, so I don't know where I'd put a charger. I don't imagine stringing an extension cord out to the curb and leaving it all night would be very practical. Well, I've never had the interest or money to be an "early adopter" of tech. But change happens fast. Hopefully in a few more years, EVs will be so much the norm that a lot of these things will be worked out ...and maybe the price on used ones will be within my budget.

Getting back to the original direction of this thread, apparently the idea of battery exchange stations has been considered, tried, and so far, _rejected_ for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that different manufacturers can't agree on a common design, as well as the fact that people like to outright_ own_ their stuff ...right down to the batteries in their cars. Saw a clip where Elon Musk said that.

Still, I always wondered why EV designers never considered a universal and _standardized portable battery pack_ for all EVs that could be used to extend range or allow a discharged vehicle to continue on to the next charging station. 

You know, something any AAA tow truck could deliver if you got stranded, just like carrying a spare gas can for gasoline powered cars. For people that travel a lot off the beaten path or who live in the boondies, something like that would make a lot of sense.

We are still very early in our transition to EVs, though. I suspect a lot of these things will develop organically over time in response to demand.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 23, 2022)

geezer said:


> Hmmm... 200 miles isn't enough for the traveling I do, and I don't have a garage, so I don't know where I'd put a charger. I don't imagine stringing an extension cord out to the curb and leaving it all night would be very practical. Well, I've never had the interest or money to be an "early adopter" of tech. But change happens fast. Hopefully in a few more years, EVs will be so much the norm that a lot of these things will be worked out ...and maybe the price on used ones will be within my budget.


Bury a line out to where you park and put a box on it. One of those weather-proof outlets like RV owners use. 
I agree that EV is the wave of the future, but the infrastructure needs a lot of development. The same thing was no doubt true when ICE vehicles were new.


geezer said:


> Getting back to the original direction of this thread, apparently the idea of battery exchange stations has been considered, tried, and so far, _rejected_ for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that different manufacturers can't agree on a common design, as well as the fact that people like to outright_ own_ their stuff ...right down to the batteries in their cars. Saw a clip where Elon Musk said that.
> 
> Still, I always wondered why EV designers never considered a universal and _standardized portable battery pack_ for all EVs that could be used to extend range or allow a discharged vehicle to continue on to the next charging station.


Maybe because a Tesla battery pack weighs 900lbs. Swapping the batteries is a job for a fork lift...


geezer said:


> You know, something any AAA tow truck could deliver if you got stranded, just like carrying a spare gas can for gasoline powered cars. For people that travel a lot off the beaten path or who live in the boondies, something like that would make a lot of sense.


A 5 gallon can of gas weighs like 30-35lbs. The corporate average fuel economy is about 25MPG. So that 5 gallons will take you about 125 miles. 
Tesla claims about 400 miles on a charge. So a pound of batteries is a bit less than 0.5 miles.  miles. So 35 pounds of batteries will take you about 15.5 miles. Hardly worth the effort to change batteries.
I think to make EVs truely viable as primary transportation, they need to match ICE vehicles.
Example. When we go to visit Sue's parents, we drive 1135 miles in 16 hr and 54 minutes.
Same trip planned using Teslas site to find Supercharger stations is is 1173 miles. But it takes 21 hr and 19 minutes. Almost 4.5 hours longer. The distance from their home to the nearest Supercharger is 144 miles. So I'd need to plan on leaving the car plugged in to their household current for the 20-40 hours it takes to fully charge it before starting home.
Expanding the infrastructure is just a time thing. And the charging times and such should improve over time as well. But right now, I would not want to do any serious traveling in an EV.


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2022)

200 miles range is plenty for me and we have another car if we need to go further.   And these days 200 miles is without an extended range pack. You can get larger ones if needed.

I drive about 5k miles a year.  But even if I drove the national average of 13,500 miles per year, I’m looking at well under 200 per day.  The national average distance for commute is under 20 miles, and 100 miles commute is pretty rare, statistically. 

Situation hasn’t really changed much since 2012.  EVs aren’t for everyone, but most (not all) concerns boil down to range anxiety and not practical barriers.  For example, Guy in my neighborhood has a plug-in jeep.  The charger is in the garage but the plug is long enough to reach his driveway.  A lot of apartment buildings are installing chargers, as are employers.  

is it right for you?  Well, I mean, that’s very subjective.  I don’t like flashy sports cars, but I could get by in one pretty much every day… until I need to get 3 yards of dirt home.  If your entire use case is road trips, I get it.  

One thing I find very compelling is just the dollars and cents involved.  And this also hasn’t changed since 2012.  If you drive the national average of 13,500 miles per year at 25 mpg, and let’s say you pay $4/gallon.  That’s about $2,160 in gas alone.  Add in 3 oil changes and you’re looking at another $150 to $200 (a little less if you do it yourself).

Cost for electricity varies from place to place.  We pay a little under $.12 per kWh.  Some EVs are more efficient than others, but most get at least 3 miles per kWh, some closer to 5 miles.  At 3 miles per kWh, with electricity at $.12 per, if you drive 13,500 miles in a year you are looking at a little over $500 in a year to get around.  No oil change. Brakes will likely last the life of the car.   No real transmission to fail.  All that adds up to over $1750 in savings, not to mention the value of my time spent at the shop.

Add in an additional $7500 tax credit and, if you’re lucky, some state incentives and buying the ev isn’t much more than a ICE.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 23, 2022)

Steve said:


> 200 miles range is plenty for me and we have another car if we need to go further.   And these days 200 miles is without an extended range pack. You can get larger ones if needed.


The post above assumes a 400 mile range. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an EV as a commuter or local car. It's road trips where they can become dicey. If you don't road trip, or if you break up your road trips into shorter legs, the problem is very  minimal. When I was a kid, road trips meant I'd drive till I couldn't, then sleep in a rest area for a bit, then drive more. Now, that 1100 mile trip to the in-laws will be two days. Drive, stop, have a nice meal, sleep; pick a hotel with superchargers and you're golden.


Steve said:


> I drive about 5k miles a year.  But even if I drove the national average of 13,500 miles per year, I’m looking at well under 200 per day.  The national average distance for commute is under 20 miles, and 100 miles commute is pretty rare, statistically.


We commute 60 miles each way.


Steve said:


> One thing I find very compelling is just the dollars and cents involved.  And this also hasn’t changed since 2012.  If you drive the national average of 13,500 miles per year at 25 mpg, and let’s say you pay $4/gallon.  That’s about $2,160 in gas alone.  Add in 3 oil changes and you’re looking at another $150 to $200 (a little less if you do it yourself).


Under normal driving conditions with synthetic oil, you only need to change it every 10,000-15,000 miles. Mobile 1 Extended Performance is guaranteed to 20,000 miles or 1 year. $26 for a jug at Walmart. $11 for a filter. It costs me about $45 to change the oil in my Vette, and that includes changing the oil in the blower.


Steve said:


> Cost for electricity varies from place to place.  We pay a little under $.12 per kWh.  Some EVs are more efficient than others, but most get at least 3 miles per kWh, some closer to 5 miles.  At 3 miles per kWh, with electricity at $.12 per, if you drive 13,500 miles in a year you are looking at a little over $500 in a year to get around.  No oil change. Brakes will likely last the life of the car.   No real transmission to fail.  All that adds up to over $1750 in savings, not to mention the value of my time spent at the shop.


Tesla recommends changing the brakes every 12,500 miles. ICE vehicles need new pads every 20K or so. I typically change every 50K (because highway commutes are easier on the brakes than city) or one track day. I'm not sure why the Tesla interval is less, because their regenerative braking SHOULD mean less wear on the pads.


Steve said:


> Add in an additional $7500 tax credit and, if you’re lucky, some state incentives and buying the ev isn’t much more than a ICE.


They're not. EV's are great. Love them. The only real problem is road tripping, and that is something that will be resolved gradually as the engineering and infrastructure improves. Or by getting old enough that 30 hour drives no longer seem like a good idea.


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> The post above assumes a 400 mile range. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an EV as a commuter or local car. It's road trips where they can become dicey. If you don't road trip, or if you break up your road trips into shorter legs, the problem is very  minimal. When I was a kid, road trips meant I'd drive till I couldn't, then sleep in a rest area for a bit, then drive more. Now, that 1100 mile trip to the in-laws will be two days. Drive, stop, have a nice meal, sleep; pick a hotel with superchargers and you're golden.
> 
> We commute 60 miles each way.
> 
> ...


I don’t know about Teslas, but I think you can expect your brakes to last 100k miles minimum in an EV.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 23, 2022)

geezer said:


> Hmmm... 200 miles isn't enough for the traveling I do, and I don't have a garage, so I don't know where I'd put a charger. I don't imagine stringing an extension cord out to the curb and leaving it all night would be very practical. Well, I've never had the interest or money to be an "early adopter" of tech. But change happens fast. Hopefully in a few more years, EVs will be so much the norm that a lot of these things will be worked out ...and maybe the price on used ones will be within my budget.
> 
> Getting back to the original direction of this thread, apparently the idea of battery exchange stations has been considered, tried, and so far, _rejected_ for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that different manufacturers can't agree on a common design, as well as the fact that people like to outright_ own_ their stuff ...right down to the batteries in their cars. Saw a clip where Elon Musk said that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, there's still some infrastructure to be sorted. 

Like you, I wonder why there hasn't been a consortium (like happens in the tech sector) to agree on some parts of this, like auxiliary battery packs.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 23, 2022)

Steve said:


> I don’t know about Teslas, but I think you can expect your brakes to last 100k miles minimum in an EV.


I've never had an EV. I assume brakes generally last longer than on ICE vehicles?


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## Steve (Apr 23, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> The post above assumes a 400 mile range. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an EV as a commuter or local car. It's road trips where they can become dicey. If you don't road trip, or if you break up your road trips into shorter legs, the problem is very  minimal. When I was a kid, road trips meant I'd drive till I couldn't, then sleep in a rest area for a bit, then drive more. Now, that 1100 mile trip to the in-laws will be two days. Drive, stop, have a nice meal, sleep; pick a hotel with superchargers and you're golden.
> 
> We commute 60 miles each way.
> 
> ...


I don’t know about Teslas, but I think you can expect your brakes to last 100k miles minimum. 

Teslas are


Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never had an EV. I assume brakes generally last longer than on ICE vehicles?


by a ton because you hardly use them.


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## geezer (Apr 23, 2022)

ICE? Like internal combustion engines? Dang, for a couple of minutes I was thinking Immigration had some kinda special vehicles....

OK, now on a more serious note, I wonder why we don't drive _slot cars_. I really liked my slot cars and track back when I was a kid in the 60s.

No, I _am_ being serious ...well, _sorta _serious here, or about as close as I get to being serious on a forum.

I mean, if the HOV/EV lane on the freeway had an _electrical pick-up,_ like a modern, safer version of the "third rail" on a subway line, your EV could charge as you drive, and a meter/transponder system could allow you to pay for the power you use when you exit. Sort of like a toll road.

I know people have got to be working on this,_ right? _I'm going to do some Google searches and see what I find.


Doo, doody doo... I'm back. I found this in about 30 seconds. Like I expected, the idea is being worked on, but there are a lot of details that would need to be worked out:








						Could Roads Recharge Electric Cars? The Technology May Be Close. (Published 2021)
					

But challenges await, including technical issues, regulatory barriers and many miles of highway.




					www.nytimes.com


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 23, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never had an EV. I assume brakes generally last longer than on ICE vehicles?


Electric Bus, With no oil changes and brakes being changed less paid for the Delta cost of the new buses in just a couple of years


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## Rich Parsons (Apr 23, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> Yeah, there's still some infrastructure to be sorted.
> 
> Like you, I wonder why there hasn't been a consortium (like happens in the tech sector) to agree on some parts of this, like auxiliary battery packs.


Gerry this is a very good question.

The First one is Chargers.
Nissan convinced the State of California that their Charger was the industry standard and in the end they said well it is our standard.
California had already installed a bunch and had to stop and then spend more money to install the standard. 
Many other states have held off. 
Ontario has done a good job of rolling them out in the mid teens. 
The rest of the industry did get together on charger connection specs for the various levels of charging.
Level 1 - 120 V
Level 2 - 240 V
Level 3 - 480 V
Level 4 - 960 V

Level 3 & 4 are considered Faster Chargers
Most of the industry vehicles only support Level 3 and below (* Last I worked on EVs *) 

Charge time for a vehicles that was mid 2xx's was about 10 to 12 hours on 120 V, about 6 - 8 hours on 240 V which is most home charges. 
Note: These values are near out of energy of single digit Battery Capacity . 
Level 3 chargers get 80 % in about 20 minutes and near 100% in 30 minutes. 

All of them use the last few minutes to cycle and charge / discharge to not overheat the battery. 

The physics of the faster one charges the more heat there is. So there are limitations (* Based upon battery and manufacturer *) on the number of time a Fast Charge can occur. 

As to batteries, each vehicle packages them differently and even the number of cells per module and module per pack is different, not to mention the chemistry involved. My experience from 05 thru 17 was that the chemistry decided upon for the approval of the vehicle would go through variations during their early development and then Boom a break through would be available and they would step from version 1.5 or 1.x to 2.0 And by the time they went to production it would be 2.5 ish.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 24, 2022)

geezer said:


> ICE? Like internal combustion engines? Dang, for a couple of minutes I was thinking Immigration had some kinda special vehicles....
> 
> OK, now on a more serious note, I wonder why we don't drive _slot cars_. I really liked my slot cars and track back when I was a kid in the 60s.
> 
> ...


It seems like a larger version of the wireless charging of phones could work, even with existing EVs (by adding a charge receiver), though I think that's pretty lossy, which would be a problem at that scale. I haven't had a chance to look at the link you posted (taking a break from tax stuff), but it looks like it might be related.


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## Gerry Seymour (Apr 24, 2022)

Rich Parsons said:


> Gerry this is a very good question.
> 
> The First one is Chargers.
> Nissan convinced the State of California that their Charger was the industry standard and in the end they said well it is our standard.
> ...


Once again, I pine for the old "informative" rating. Thanks, Rich!!


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 24, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never had an EV. I assume brakes generally last longer than on ICE vehicles?


They should, yes. At least on any vehicle with regenerative charging. Using the motor to slow the car and convert that kinetic energy back into electrical energy should mean you don't use your actual brakes nearly as much. I don't know why Tesla says 12K, unless (unfounded idle speculation based on nothing ahead) they pinched pennies on the brakes to cut costs.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2022)

Gerry Seymour said:


> I've never had an EV. I assume brakes generally last longer than on ICE vehicles?


Tesla recommends you clean and lubricate your calipers every 12,500 miles but your brakes should last you well over 100k before they need to be replaced.


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## Dirty Dog (Apr 24, 2022)

Steve said:


> Tesla recommends you clean and lubricate your calipers every 12,500 miles but your brakes should last you well over 100k before they need to be replaced.


That makes much more sense. I apparently misread.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2022)

Dirty Dog said:


> That makes much more sense. I apparently misread.


Yup. There’s a lesson in there for those who care to learn it.


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## geezer (Apr 24, 2022)

Steve said:


> Yup. There’s a lesson in there for those who care to learn it.


Not me. I continually mis-read (and mis-hear) stuff, and it seems to be getting worse every year. On the up-side, it makes for some unintentionally funny statements. Sometimes I think students sign up for my classes just for amusement. 

But, you know, I'm good with whatever keeps enrollment up! If my classes don't "make", I'll have to get a real job.


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## Steve (Apr 26, 2022)

geezer said:


> Not me. I continually mis-read (and mis-hear) stuff, and it seems to be getting worse every year. On the up-side, it makes for some unintentionally funny statements. Sometimes I think students sign up for my classes just for amusement.
> 
> But, you know, I'm good with whatever keeps enrollment up! If my classes don't "make", I'll have to get a real job.


Everyone mis-reads stuff, from time to time. But confidently passing along misinformation without thinking critically is avoidable, as is believing it without critical thought.


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