# Injured & frustrated



## IcemanSK (Oct 18, 2008)

Some of you may know that I pulled a muscle in my right calf while running nearly 7 months ago. (At least that's how it was diagnosed). 

Well 7 months later, it's exactly as it was the day it happened. I've had 3 months of physical therapy, an MRI, seen 2 orthopedic surgeons (both of which have said, "I don't know how to help you, or why you're still in pain.") & I've done everything that has been asked of me. I can barely train, as even 3 jumping jacks gives me pain. I used to demonstrate every technique to my students: now, I talk them through it. I've gained 25 lbs since this happened. Some days, I think I need a cane to walk, because it hurts that much. (CaneMasters here I come).

Next week, I go to UCLA Medical Center's Adult Cerebral Palsy Center to have them look at me. (I have a mild form of the disease that affects the right side of my body). I'm sure they don't have a "magic pill" for me, but I'm hoping for some answers.

My whole adult life I've seen myself as an athlete. Until this happened, I was running 3-4 miles, 3-4 days a week plus TKD training & running my school. Now, I teach & stretch...& that's about it. It's frustrating beyond explaination.

I don't have any BB students, but I do have a good support system of schools in my organization (& you folks here) that I'm most grateful for. It's hard to teach an energetic class when I'm in this spot.

Sorry for the downer, but I just wanted to let you know what going on. I appreciate your prayers.


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## Miles (Oct 18, 2008)

Being injured and unable to train is never fun.

Hopefully the folks at UCLA Med can figure out why you are not recuperating (7 months seems like a long time especially since you've been treated and done what was prescribed).

I know the feeling of frustration while you recuperate-it is not an easy thing to do, but that too is part of the journey.


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## granfire (Oct 18, 2008)

The only thing I can think of is water...pool exercises.

Man, I hear you. 7 month is a long time to be not right.

I hope you see some improvement soon! heck a diagnosis would be great!


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## hpulley (Oct 18, 2008)

I sure hope they can do something for you!  What else have you tried?  Any massage, acupuncture, anything like that since real doctors can't seem to help?


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## terryl965 (Oct 18, 2008)

Iceman I was siedline for nearly ywo years while going though rehab, it is no fun all I can say is stay teaching and praying that it wll get better.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 18, 2008)

hpulley said:


> I sure hope they can do something for you! What else have you tried? Any massage, acupuncture, anything like that since real doctors can't seem to help?


 

I have done massage, electro-stim, & ultrasound treatments in addition to homeopathic medicines as well. We'll see what happens next week before I try the next thing.


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## hpulley (Oct 18, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I have done massage, electro-stim, & ultrasound treatments in addition to homeopathic medicines as well. We'll see what happens next week before I try the next thing.



Good luck with it!

I injured my right calf a week ago Friday doing hard front kicks into pads.  Couldn't walk so went to the doctor and they said it was nothing (I was worried I might have ruptured my achilles or something).  It still isn't perfect but thankfully it is getting better and is really getting better today after, af all things, some hikes with my son.  Still, I tried a crescent kick yesterday and it still hurt so I know there is a way to go before I can return to full 100% training.  Still it sounds like I should consider myself very lucky.  In a small way I feel your pain and really hope you find a remedy.


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## Brad Dunne (Oct 18, 2008)

Iceman, sorry to hear you've got a problem. Here's hoping for a good report from UCLA Med. 

Just a thought, here's a stretch you might want to try. It's for the calf. Facing the wall, place your hands on the wall and then backup as far as you can, keeping your heels on the ground. Once you reach this position. attempt to do a push up against the wall, don't let your heels raise up. Go slow and easy, it may offer some help.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 18, 2008)

Brad Dunne said:


> Iceman, sorry to hear you've got a problem. Here's hoping for a good report from UCLA Med.
> 
> Just a thought, here's a stretch you might want to try. It's for the calf. Facing the wall, place your hands on the wall and then backup as far as you can, keeping your heels on the ground. Once you reach this position. attempt to do a push up against the wall, don't let your heels raise up. Go slow and easy, it may offer some help.


 
Thanks Brad! I do a similiar stretch. I have a wedge that is 45 degrees. I put my foot on it I hold for 30 seconds. It stretches the same way. I also use a stretching strap & a therapy ball (for wall squats). I do all of these & more nearly every day.


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## bluekey88 (Oct 18, 2008)

Iceman, I'm really sorry.  NO words of wisdom or advice here...I keep you in my prayhers though that an answer or solution will come your way soon.

Hang in there.

Peace,
Erik


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## Deaf Smith (Oct 18, 2008)

Iceman,

You said you pulled a calf muscle while running. Look no muscle takes 7 months. Now is it just pain or does your leg collapse while doing things? Could you have torn a ligament with either a partial tear or complete tear?

If not, maybe an a blood clot or an infarction. Dead muscle can keep you in pain for a very very long time.

It's just it's am awfil long time and still hurting.

Deaf


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## IcemanSK (Oct 19, 2008)

Deaf Smith said:


> Iceman,
> 
> You said you pulled a calf muscle while running. Look no muscle takes 7 months. Now is it just pain or does your leg collapse while doing things? Could you have torn a ligament with either a partial tear or complete tear?
> 
> ...


 
The MRI has ruled out tears in the muscle & achilles tendon. I imagine the other things you mentioned aren't showing up on the MRI, either. Use is what causes the pain. (It can be really painfully even after a 1/2 mile walk.) The pain can wrap around my calf to my ankle. I haven't colapsed, it's just pain. It has changed my gate a bit after all this time, also. I've thought about dead muscle, but the pain isn't that severe. (I gague that by watching "House M.D."):ultracool The docs have not thought that as a possibility either. There is atrophy of the muscle, but that is explained by the CP.

I'm really glad to be heading to UCLA on Wednesday to find out why an injury that should heal in two weeks is not healed in 7 months.


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## karatemom (Oct 19, 2008)

I know how it feels to have an injury and not be able to train.  : (

I hope you find out what's going on and get some pain relief.

Could it be related to the CP somehow?


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## IcemanSK (Oct 19, 2008)

karatemom said:


> I know how it feels to have an injury and not be able to train. : (
> 
> I hope you find out what's going on and get some pain relief.
> 
> Could it be related to the CP somehow?


 
Thanks karatemom, I appreciate your support. 

I decided to go to UCLA's adult CP center out of concern that it might be related to CP. The other orthopedic docs didn't know why I still have this issue & they didn't seem to care, honestly. 

Hopefully, some answers are forthcoming.


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## Mimir (Oct 20, 2008)

Iceman,

I wish I had some magic advice that would help your leg heal.  The best I can offer is that I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.  Hopefully they will be able to find out why it doesn't seem to be healing.


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## Ninjamom (Oct 20, 2008)

Ice, you are in my thoughts and prayers, Bro!

Please keep all of us here at MT apprised of whatever you find out on Wednesday.


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## jim777 (Oct 20, 2008)

I didn't know it was so severe, I'll definitely keep a good thought for you and have the kids include you in their prayers.


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## buldog (Oct 20, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your troubles Iceman.  I can definitely relate.  I have been having abdominal pain for 4 months and they still have no idea what is going on.  I've had x-rays, ultrasounds, ct's, numerous blood tests, an Upper GI and next is a Endoscopic Ultrasound.  After thousands of dollars there has been zero relief of the symptoms.  My faith in modern medicine is not very high.  Good luck at the next visit.  Hopefully they can shed some light on the subject.  If you are like me you just want to know what is going on.  Try to keep your sprirts up!


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## igillman (Oct 20, 2008)

The only thing you can do right now is to focus on the positives, what CAN you do instead of what CAN'T you do.

You CAN still do forms/patterns.
You CAN still do hand techniques.
You CAN still learn new techniques, you need to learn techniques that do not involve using whatever is hurting you right now.
You CAN still learn self defence. In fact, you are going to have to change some of your self defence techniques to take into account your injury.

Lots of people say that there is so much more to Tae Kwon Do than just fancy kicks. Now is your chance to find out. I have heart troubles so I have been sidelined for a while, probably the rest of my life. So I cannot get up there and spar, I cannot do the kicks any more but I can still train. I learned Taeguk Yook-jang over the weekend which is several forms above my belt level. I have been running through self defence scenarios and acting them out in slow motion using various hand and foot techniques.

You can still do things, it might not be what you want to do but that is a part of getting older. I cannot run a mile in 4 1/2 minutes any more and I never will be able to again but at least I can look back and say that I could do that. I am a "has-been" runner not a "never-was".

You have found and explored the kicking part for many years and now it's time to find the rest of Tae Kwon Do.


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## TX_BB (Oct 20, 2008)

Just a WAG have they ruled out any circulatory problems, PAD or Diabetes? Have you tried massage therapy? How old are you?


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## terryl965 (Oct 20, 2008)

Iceman stay positive and hopefully your body will recover.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 20, 2008)

TX_BB said:


> Just a WAG have they ruled out any circulatory problems, PAD or Diabetes? Have you tried massage therapy? How old are you?


 
I know it's not diabetes (I was checked recently). The other things you mentioned I've not been tested for. I have had massage therapy as part of physical therapy sessions. I'm 40. That might explain an overuse pulled muscle injury (that's the only thing I've been told it may be, so far). But no one can explain why it's taken longer than 2 weeks to heal (let alone nearly 7 months.


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## terryl965 (Oct 20, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I know it's not diabetes (I was checked recently). The other things you mentioned I've not been tested for. I have had massage therapy as part of physical therapy sessions. I'm 40. That might explain an overuse pulled muscle injury (that's the only thing I've been told it may be, so far). But no one can explain why it's taken longer than 2 weeks to heal (let alone nearly 7 months.


 
Maybe you did not give it enought ime to heal in the first place Ice and that is why it is taking so long.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 20, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Maybe you did not give it enought ime to heal in the first place Ice and that is why it is taking so long.


 
I've been injured too many times & come back way too quick in the past. I did everything I was supposed to do & not do, this time. The day it happened, I stopped running. I iced it, Advil, rest....everything I read about for the injury I thought I had. I went to the doctor after a month. He said, "rest more & take Advil." I insisted on seeing an orthopedic surgeon.

It wasn't until the 4th visit to that doctor (after the MRI & 2 months of PT) that he even touched my leg. He sent me to another orthopedic surgeon. That guy said, "I'll send you to UCLA."

Terry, I'm not arguing with you. But this time, I've really done the "right" things. Hence my frustration. I do appreciate your support. Wednesday will not come soon enough.


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## terryl965 (Oct 20, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I've been injured too many times & come back way too quick in the past. I did everything I was supposed to do & not do, this time. The day it happened, I stopped running. I iced it, Advil, rest....everything I read about for the injury I thought I had. I went to the doctor after a month. He said, "rest more & take Advil." I insisted on seeing an orthopedic surgeon.
> 
> It wasn't until the 4th visit to that doctor (after the MRI & 2 months of PT) that he even touched my leg. He sent me to another orthopedic surgeon. That guy said, "I'll send you to UCLA."
> 
> Terry, I'm not arguing with you. But this time, I've really done the "right" things. Hence my frustration. I do appreciate your support. Wednesday will not come soon enough.


 
I know you did Iceman I just wanted other to know this as well, I wish I could give you some expert advice but I just do not understand your delima.:asian:


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## TX_BB (Oct 20, 2008)

Have you tried a stationary bike? Running or walking in a swimming pool normally helps for two reasons buoyancy and cooling. You don't apply full weight to injury and you keep the tissue cool. Try flutter kicks also to work on the calves. Great place too work on all your kicking for form.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 20, 2008)

TX_BB said:


> Have you tried a stationary bike? Running or walking in a swimming pool normally helps for two reasons buoyancy and cooling. You don't apply full weight to injury and you keep the tissue cool. Try flutter kicks also to work on the calves. Great place too work on all your kicking for form.


 
I did work on a stationary bike during PT & loved it. I don't have access to a stationary bike or a pool, now.


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## bluemtn (Oct 20, 2008)

There are some good exercises to do to work out (gently) an injured muscle, but still, I'd wait to see  what is said on Wed.  It might be something that needs to be worked out with some time with a physical therapist (fingers crossed that it won't take long).  

I'm sorry to hear about the injury, and you're definitely in my thoughts/ prayers.  It's really hard to not be able to train due to an injury, and I hope things get straightened out for you ASAP.


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## Xue Sheng (Oct 20, 2008)

IcemanSK

I wish I could tell you something better but I can only tell you I have been through a major injury and it is not fun but it takes time and it is best to listen to the MD. I learned the hard way that that a Doctor REALLY does know more that I do about healing. Of course it took a couple of I told you so events first to get that through my thick skull


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## granfire (Oct 20, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I did work on a stationary bike during PT & loved it. I don't have access to a stationary bike or a pool, now.




Try the YMCA!


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## TX_BB (Oct 21, 2008)

Ask your Doctor about circulatory problems, they need to check for swelling and may ask for doppler on your leg. In the mean time you may want to do bicycles on your back(get a pillow to help support your back).


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## Kwanjang (Oct 21, 2008)

Tom,

Try your best not to let this attack (you know what I mean) get you down. I know from personal experience- pain can lead to depression and anxiety that can snowball out of control. Try to keep up the good fight.
For we are in His service.

try not to focus on what you can not do- but rather on what you still can do. Your students will understand!

I thouroghly enjoyed or talk on the phone a couple of weeks ago. Thanks for the call, and sorry for talking your ear(s) off!

your brother in Christ


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## hpulley (Oct 21, 2008)

TX_BB said:


> Ask your Doctor about circulatory problems, they need to check for swelling and may ask for doppler on your leg. In the mean time you may want to do bicycles on your back(get a pillow to help support your back).



Yeah, when I pulled mine a week and a half ago and could barely walk the triage nurse's first concern was the circulation in it.  She checked for a pulse down there and did blood pressure checks and so on to make sure that I wasn't sitting in the waiting room while I had serious circulatory problems in my calf.  I admin I was impressed.  By touch a nurse could tell my achilles tendon was still attached too.


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## exile (Oct 21, 2008)

Ice&#8212;didn't see this post till today for some reason. I'm sorry to hear that you are still having problems with this thing. 

I'm in no position to make suggestions about what your doctors and physiotherapists should look into. But one thing that might be worth getting checked on is irritation of nerve bundles in the affected area. Sciatica is probably the most familiar instance of this problem, but it's something that can come up any time there's an injury. And irritation of nerve fibres is notoriously persistent. Once it starts, it can be a chronic problem. I've had, not sciatica, but sciatic inflammation in the past, and it can take several weeks to damp down.  More serious inflammation could take a lot longer. It's something that ought to be checked out....


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## terryl965 (Oct 21, 2008)

Iceman just keep seeing doc after doc until someone finds the reason for the pain, pain is simply not there unless you are hurting. Keep the faith.


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## Daniel Sullivan (Oct 22, 2008)

Ice, you're in my prayers!  I hope that the doctors have a good word for you and that you'll be back to your old self!

Daniel


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## Ninjamom (Oct 22, 2008)

Well, it's Wednesday ....... any news??


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## granfire (Oct 22, 2008)

ah, yes, W day


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## terryl965 (Oct 22, 2008)

With him being in California probaly not until later this evening.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 22, 2008)

Well, I've got some good news...or at least a direction to go in. The Dr was very nice & was very willing to do what it took to help. He even got on the phone with my insurance to make sure they would pay for what he wanted to do.

The Dr & the physical therapist were concerned that I couldn't move my ankle much (I never really could) & was really tight in my ankle & calf area. He put me in a cast pushing my ankle slightly up (think toward front kick ability). I'll be in that position for a week. It will actually relax my calf as well. Next week, they'll move it up more. Week after, same thing. They're looking for flexion in my ankle & decreased tightness in my calf. Hopefully, that will help the calf muscle as well as the ankle flexion.

A few weeks after the last cast, he wants to do a study on they way I walk to see what else is happening there. 

So, I have a cast on my leg from just bellow my knee. Teaching class is gonna be fun tonight.:ultracool I'm gonna need to wear shorts everywhere for the next month. I'm STILL not gonna buy a "summer" dobok!

We don't have an answer yet, but at least we have a plan to get there & folks who actually care that are seeing to me.

I appreciate your continued prayers & support!

Tom


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## terryl965 (Oct 22, 2008)

Iceman that is great news and hopefully it will help you.


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## granfire (Oct 22, 2008)

Keeping all fingers crossed!


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## bluekey88 (Oct 22, 2008)

Excellent!  I'll keep pulling for ya!


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## Loomie (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm glad to hear they are hopefully going to find a cause and end the pain you've been in. Take care


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## bluemtn (Oct 22, 2008)

I'm glad that they're going to work on your range of motion in your ankle, and hopefully that will help a lot.  Thanks for keeping us posted.


What?  You aren't going to try out the summer dobak?!?


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## IcemanSK (Oct 22, 2008)

tkdgirl said:


> What? You aren't going to try out the summer dobak?!?


 
Shorts & a belt?! Need I say more?:uhyeah:


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## bluemtn (Oct 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Shorts & a belt?! Need I say more?:uhyeah:


 

Well, I guess I see your point and can't blame you.


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## granfire (Oct 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Shorts & a belt?! Need I say more?:uhyeah:



Sounds sexy though!


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## IcemanSK (Oct 23, 2008)

granfire said:


> Sounds sexy though!


 
On kids perhaps. http://sangmoosa.com/shop/shop_goodsview.asp?Top=1&Steps=000010001600017&g_code=2008826145072

On adults...not so much.:ultracool


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## exile (Oct 23, 2008)

This is a bit of a bummer; I just hope they can definitively pinpoint what's going on. Keep us posted. Having to have your leg in a cast is a drag (literally); I hope that there's a payoff in the diagnostic outcome so that you finally know what the story is. Restricted range of motion... could be tendon damage, be neural probs, could be _anything_. At least with a nice clean fracture, there's no complication: they see it on the X-ray, they put you in a splint, six weeks later they take it off, and hey, presto, all is well. Soft tissue injuries,... they can drive you crazy. Stay cool and good luckand let us know as soon as they tell you what's up.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 23, 2008)

exile said:


> This is a bit of a bummer; I just hope they can definitively pinpoint what's going on. Keep us posted. Having to have your leg in a cast is a drag (literally); I hope that there's a payoff in the diagnostic outcome so that you finally know what the story is. Restricted range of motion... could be tendon damage, be neural probs, could be _anything_. At least with a nice clean fracture, there's no complication: they see it on the X-ray, they put you in a splint, six weeks later they take it off, and hey, presto, all is well. Soft tissue injuries,... they can drive you crazy. Stay cool and good luckand let us know as soon as they tell you what's up.


 

At the very least, I can still drive a car & work. Teaching last night was interesting to say the least. I have hope that these folks at least care enough to try to find out what's wrong. I just hope I'll be able to play the violin when this is all over.:uhyeah:


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## bookworm_cn317 (Oct 23, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> At the very least, I can still drive a car & work. Teaching last night was interesting to say the least. I have hope that these folks at least care enough to try to find out what's wrong. I just hope I'll be able to play the violin when this is all over.:uhyeah:


 
But, were you able to before?  

I'm thinking good thoughts for you. Would you like me to sacrifice a small, furry woodland creature for you as well?


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## IcemanSK (Oct 24, 2008)

bookworm_cn317 said:


> But, were you able to before?
> 
> I'm thinking good thoughts for you. Would you like me to sacrifice a small, furry woodland creature for you as well?


 

I appreciate your willingness to help. No animal sacrifices are necessary. :uhyeah:


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## exile (Oct 24, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> At the very least, I can still drive a car & work. Teaching last night was interesting to say the least. *I have hope that these folks at least care enough to try to find out what's wrong*.



Ice, they _owe_ you a good answer. The range of diagnostic tools these guys have, use, and charge you for is astronomical (especially the charges ) There's absolutely no reason why they can't systematically eliminate all the possible-but-not-correct possibilities till they hit on the right one. I'm glad that you're still basically up and running. 




IcemanSK said:


> I just hope I'll be able to play the violin when this is all over.:uhyeah:



Yeah, I know that joke... you won't _believe_ how old it is! As in, I was a young kid when I heard it for the first time from my mother.... :lol:


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## Kacey (Oct 24, 2008)

Iceman - 

I haven't logged in for over a week (work has been brutal, etc.).  I'm sorry you're having this problem - but at least now someone is doing something about it.  Please keep us up to date on how your recovery is coming, and what else the doctor says.

Here's hoping it heals completely, with range of motion in your ankle better than before - for your time and trouble!


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## IcemanSK (Oct 24, 2008)

exile said:


> Ice, they _owe_ you a good answer. The range of diagnostic tools these guys have, use, and charge you for is astronomical (especially the charges ) There's absolutely no reason why they can't systematically eliminate all the possible-but-not-correct possibilities till they hit on the right one. I'm glad that you're still basically up and running.


 

It took two months screaming at my insurance company before they would pay for me to go to UCLA, after their doctors gave their half-hearted guesses as to what's wrong. 

UCLA has already exceeded my expectations as far as care. I called them today because the cast rubbed on my toe enough to bleed (it just rubbed off a few layers of skin). They said "get here immediately." They removed the cast & put on a new one that is completely comfortable. I barely know it's on.

Money (that is, the insurance company) would be the only reason everything won't be done to make me 100%. The folks at UCLA have shown me they care more about me then to worry about how they are getting paid.


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## exile (Oct 24, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> It took two months screaming at my insurance company before they would pay for me to go to UCLA, after their doctors gave their half-hearted guesses as to what's wrong.
> 
> UCLA has already exceeded my expectations as far as care. I called them today because the cast rubbed on my toe enough to bleed (it just rubbed off a few layers of skin). They said "get here immediately." They removed the cast & put on a new one that is completely comfortable. I barely know it's on.
> 
> Money (that is, the insurance company) would be the only reason everything won't be done to make me 100%. The folks at UCLA have shown me they care more about me then to worry about how they are getting paid.



This makes sense to me. A lot of university hospitals are particularly good in this respect. I'd expect our medical complex at OSU, which is one of the biggest midwestern hospitals, to act that way. Not sure why that is, but I think that the university connection makes them more patient- and less profit-oriented, no matter how cold-blooded the particular Med School deans try to be. 

I think some of it comes from the research-hospital tradition. University hospitals are always teaching hospitals and are usually involved in very forward-edge research, at the frontier of knowledge. The people involved with them are heavily committed to breakthroughs at the fundamental level, much more than to bottom-line profitability. I'm very glad that that pattern held when you approached the UCLA team.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

exile said:


> This makes sense to me. A lot of university hospitals are particularly good in this respect. I'd expect our medical complex at OSU, which is one of the biggest midwestern hospitals, to act that way. Not sure why that is, but I think that the university connection makes them more patient- and less profit-oriented, no matter how cold-blooded the particular Med School deans try to be.
> 
> I think some of it comes from the research-hospital tradition. University hospitals are always teaching hospitals and are usually involved in very forward-edge research, at the frontier of knowledge. The people involved with them are heavily committed to breakthroughs at the fundamental level, much more than to bottom-line profitability. I'm very glad that that pattern held when you approached the UCLA team.


 

I think being a 40 year old athlete with CP is also intriguing to them. Not many of their patients in their 30's run a 8:20 mile &/or competed in full contact rules kickboxing in their 20's. They were most interested in my flexibilty. Since muscle tightness is a big part of CP, they rarely, if ever see someone who has the ability to do nearly full splits. Hopefully, I'm not the last that they see.


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## terryl965 (Oct 25, 2008)

It is intreging for them, so maybe they can really get to the how to.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

exile said:


> Yeah, I know that joke... you won't _believe_ how old it is! As in, I was a young kid when I heard it for the first time from my mother.... :lol:


 
I think it must be an old vaudeville joke. Henny Youngman & guys like that, I'd bet.


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## bluemtn (Oct 25, 2008)

They do know you're a martial artist, right?  I've always heard that martial arts is very beneficial in more ways than one.


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## exile (Oct 25, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I think it must be an old vaudeville joke. Henny Youngman & guys like that, I'd bet.



That would about place it in my era, alas...


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## Kacey (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm glad you're getting what you need now - maybe your abilities despite the CP will so intrigue them that you'll get extra on top of necessary!


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

tkdgirl said:


> They do know you're a martial artist, right? I've always heard that martial arts is very beneficial in more ways than one.


 
Oh yeah, they know. The doctor even said he could tell by something he saw on an x-ray. (Although I'm not sure what that was). Perhaps it was something on the x-ray that is explained by MA training.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

Kacey said:


> I'm glad you're getting what you need now - maybe your abilities despite the CP will so intrigue them that you'll get extra on top of necessary!


 

They were surprised by a few things. They started looking amy arm & shoulder as well. They noted that I have a severely atrophied muscle in my shoulder that it looks as if it's missing. When I told them I can still do 50-75 pushups, they were surprised. Maybe I'll get other medical care for free out of this:uhyeah:


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## exile (Oct 25, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> They were surprised by a few things. *They started looking amy arm & shoulder as well. They noted that I have a severely atrophied muscle in my shoulder that it looks as if it's missing. When I told them I can still do 50-75 pushups*, they were surprised. Maybe I'll get other medical care for free out of this:uhyeah:



This is crazy. What's going on??

You should get them to work this out to your satisfaction. Something very strange is going on... is their imaging technology buggered up? Or _what_? I just don't see how they can come to that conclusion, given the facts of your physical abilities....


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

exile said:


> This is crazy. What's going on??
> 
> You should get them to work this out to your satisfaction. Something very strange is going on... is their imaging technology buggered up? Or _what_? I just don't see how they can come to that conclusion, given the facts of your physical abilities....


 
exile,

I went there only for the issues with my leg, not a "full work up" on my CP. The PT got curious & asked me to take my shirt off. There is a noticeable difference in the musculature of my right shoulder. No imaging was done to prove his theory. Had I gone in for issues with my arm, hand or shoulder, I'd make sure they'd do those things.

I went through 2 months of screaming at my insurance company just to let UCLA look at & treat my leg. They're doing that. I'd love them to do a full work up on me. In the case of what the doctor said about my shoulder, it's interesting, but it doesn't mean much to me. I have no pain in that shoulder & no change in range of motion. I can do the pushups. How I'm able to do them isn't too important to me.


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## karatemom (Oct 25, 2008)

Was thinking about you.  Glad you finally found some medical people who care and are interested in helping.  Isn't insurance wonderful?  :disgust:

I imagine you are unique patient.  

Shorts and uniform top with belt  *lol*  Are you still teaching?


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## IcemanSK (Oct 25, 2008)

karatemom said:


> Shorts and uniform top with belt *lol* Are you still teaching?


 

I run a small program out of my church. I don't have any BB's, so I teach every class. 

I actually think I have a pair of dobok pants that will fit over my cast. My wife doesn't want me to demonstrate kicks until the cast comes off. I thinks she figures I'll fall on my butt & really need a cast. She's forgotten about my cat-like relexes.:bangahead:


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## karatemom (Oct 25, 2008)

:lol:

I agree with the Mrs. on that one!


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## exile (Oct 26, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> I have no pain in that shoulder & no change in range of motion. I can do the pushups. How I'm able to do them isn't too important to me.



Right, if everything is functional, the rest isn't that important. 

The human body can work in very strange ways, that's for sure...


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## terryl965 (Oct 26, 2008)

Iceman just keep moving forward and everything will work out for you. Good things happen to good people and you are a good person.


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## kidswarrior (Oct 26, 2008)

Wow, Iceman, hadn't seen this thread before (like Kacey, it's been the school year from the Darkside). If I could just interject some personal experience here without seeming to make this about me.

I've had quite a few martial-related injuries, some from structured MA's, some from getting into stupid scrapes before I grew up (around your current age--slow learner ), and never got a real answer on many of them (I hear you on the insurance battles, etc). Nevertheless, with time, I found a way around most, and they receded (except in the first 30 minutes after I get up every day ). 

But about four years ago, received a neck injury due to an over-macho training partner and, short of surgery (not going to happen), the best 'protection' was/is to continue the exercises I was given in rehab, and to alter my training regimen--as in, don't train with immature, testosterone driven fools, or try to do the things they do. 

Now most of my training is my teaching, which seems we sort of have in common. And even then, I remember my limitations. Don't believe it makes me a poorer martial artist not to do all the hard falls, rolls, and flashy stuff over and over. It makes me able to continue doing something I love--and truth be told, probably better in getting at the combat aspect of my art.

Guess I'm saying, age happens, and there's life after it (and surprisingly, often it's better, not *settling*). So, I'm wishing you the best in getting the right diagnosis and treatment, but if you find that even with that your body has changed, hope you can find a bright side to that, as I have. :highfive:

Thanks for your willingness to share so openly. :asian:


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## IcemanSK (Oct 26, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Wow, Iceman, hadn't seen this thread before (like Kacey, it's been the school year from the Darkside). If I could just interject some personal experience here without seeming to make this about me.
> 
> I've had quite a few martial-related injuries, some from structured MA's, some from getting into stupid scrapes before I grew up (around your current age--slow learner ), and never got a real answer on many of them (I hear you on the insurance battles, etc). Nevertheless, with time, I found a way around most, and they receded (except in the first 30 minutes after I get up every day ).
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for support & encouragement Warrior. Your words mean a lot!

This time gives me the opportunity to stretch my teaching abilities by using words, rather than demonstrating every technique as I have for a long time. 

The exercises from PT & Sang H. Kim's "Ultimate Stretching" dvd are a godsend to me. I realized the other day that, just because I have pain, doesn't mean there aren't many things I can still do.

I also spoke with Mark Shuey from CaneMasters yesterday. I'll be ordering a cane or 2 & some dvd's from him. While I don't _need_ a cane to walk (thank God) & want to teaching Canemaster's stretching & SD to Seniors & other folks who do.


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## jks9199 (Oct 26, 2008)

kidswarrior said:


> Wow, Iceman, hadn't seen this thread before (like Kacey, it's been the school year from the Darkside). If I could just interject some personal experience here without seeming to make this about me.
> 
> I've had quite a few martial-related injuries, some from structured MA's, some from getting into stupid scrapes before I grew up (around your current age--slow learner ), and never got a real answer on many of them (I hear you on the insurance battles, etc). Nevertheless, with time, I found a way around most, and they receded (except in the first 30 minutes after I get up every day ).
> 
> ...


A related point...

There comes a time when we can no longer bounce back or train as hard as we once did.  There are different ways to deal with this -- but if you've "prepared the ground" over time, you'll be able to demonstrate what YOU must, while being able to rely on students to demonstrate what you can't (or can't without paying a higher cost than you'd like) anymore.  There's nothing wrong with this; it's a natural result.  And maybe it's time for you to start investigating other avenues in training, too.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 26, 2008)

jks9199 said:


> A related point...
> 
> There comes a time when we can no longer bounce back or train as hard as we once did. There are different ways to deal with this -- but if you've "prepared the ground" over time, you'll be able to demonstrate what YOU must, while being able to rely on students to demonstrate what you can't (or can't without paying a higher cost than you'd like) anymore. There's nothing wrong with this; it's a natural result. And maybe it's time for you to start investigating other avenues in training, too.


 

I agree whole-heartedly jks. Thanks for making this point clearly! How many dance teachers, football & boxing coaches aren't able to "do" it anymore yet produce great athletes? More than a few.


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## Kacey (Oct 26, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> Thanks for support & encouragement Warrior. Your words mean a lot!
> 
> This time gives me the opportunity to stretch my teaching abilities by using words, rather than demonstrating every technique as I have for a long time.



It can be hard to explain techniques in words when you're used to demonstrating - but it's also a great way to expand your understanding of technique, as you have to understand it thoroughly to be able to explain it.  It's also a good chance for your more senior students to demonstrate for you.



IcemanSK said:


> The exercises from PT & Sang H. Kim's "Ultimate Stretching" dvd are a godsend to me. I realized the other day that, just because I have pain, doesn't mean there aren't many things I can still do.


 
Of course there are - why wouldn't there be?  :idunno:  I don't mean to sound flip, I really don't - but why would an injury prevent you from training around it?  That would be like saying "well, gee... I've been injured in defending myself, I guess I'll just lay down and let this attacker beat the crap out of me, because now that I'm injured I can no longer defend myself" - something that I certainly can't see you doing.  This actually gives you a great chance to train a different way, to see what you can do that will let you work around your current limitations - which is, by the way, another great teaching technique; impose artificial limits on your students (spar with only your right hand and foot, or don't let them use their favorite kicks, things like that) and watch how quickly they grow, as they are forced into using less comfortable techniques.



IcemanSK said:


> I also spoke with Mark Shuey from CaneMasters yesterday. I'll be ordering a cane or 2 & some dvd's from him. While I don't _need_ a cane to walk (thank God) & want to teaching Canemaster's stretching & SD to Seniors & other folks who do.



That sounds like a _great_ idea - not to mention the fact that canes are not (yet) on the list of items that can't be carried on planes.


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## IcemanSK (Oct 27, 2008)

Kacey said:


> It can be hard to explain techniques in words when you're used to demonstrating - but it's also a great way to expand your understanding of technique, as you have to understand it thoroughly to be able to explain it. It's also a good chance for your more senior students to demonstrate for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## IcemanSK (Oct 30, 2008)

An update.......

I went to UCLA again yesterday to see my progress. When they took the cast off, the Dr. wasn't happy with the fact my ankle didn't move much (he was hoping it would be more flexible) & that the knot in my calf wasn't smaller. Since a regular cast allows to much movement, I'm now in a plastic cast (that makes me look like Robocop) that absolutely keeps it immobile. I'll have this for 3 weeks. Hopefully, it will do what it's intended so I won't need surgery.

I ordered 2 Canemaster's canes & an SD & an exercise (rehab) dvd. I'm hoping I won't "need" them to walk, but as a help for exercise. I also really want to teach an exercise & SD program to Seniors. They arrive in a few weeks.

I really appreciate all the support & encouragement that I receive from you all here!:asian:


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## Master K (Oct 31, 2008)

IcemanSK,

I hope things continue to get better.  Keep your chin up and in good spirits.  You have a lot of people pulling for you.


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## tko4u (Oct 31, 2008)

Master K said:


> IcemanSK,
> 
> I hope things continue to get better. Keep your chin up and in good spirits. You have a lot of people pulling for you.


 

agreed, you have a lot of friends here!


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## Mimir (Oct 31, 2008)

I hope that you are able to eventually get back to full use of your leg.


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## karatemom (Nov 4, 2008)

Just dropped in to check on how you're doing.   Sorry they didn't have better news for you after the cast.  Just keep moving forward and 40 is not old (one of our top guys in ITA is mid 50's and still going strong!).


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## kidswarrior (Nov 4, 2008)

karatemom said:


> Just dropped in to check on how you're doing.   Sorry they didn't have better news for you after the cast.  Just keep moving forward and 40 is not old (one of our top guys in ITA is mid 50's and still going strong!).


Hey, mid 50's is not old, either. :wink2: Well, maybe for the first 30 minutes in the morning... :yoda:But I've found that whenever I start to think of using age as a reason to slow down, there's always someone older practicing the arts--and doing it well. :headbangin:


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## miguksaram (Nov 4, 2008)

I feel you on this one Iceman.  I sparred last Wednesday and received a wicked sidekick to my ribs which left a nice contusion and hairline fracture.  However, to add insult to injury Saturday I was back in the emergency room.  Apparently it caused a small pnemothorax (collapsed lung) as well.  Now I am out of everything for a few weeks at least.  It is hard to take regular to deep breaths without my pain killers for the time being.  I just walked a 1/2 mile to work and feels like I was kicked all over again.  

I have to have my senior student demonstrate the lessons that I am teaching in the sword class becuase it is hard for me to lift above my head...that and the doctor told me not to strain myself.  I hate getting old.


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## terryl965 (Nov 4, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the colapse lung miguksaram, this will sideline you for a couple of weeks.

Iceman have you heard anything else?


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## igillman (Nov 4, 2008)

miguksaram said:


> I hate getting old.



It beats the alternative!!!

Getting older means you fight more with the head and less with the body. So you cannot run and jump with the rest of them (join the club) but you still have forms and step sparring you can practice.


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## IcemanSK (Nov 4, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Sorry to hear about the colapse lung miguksaram, this will sideline you for a couple of weeks.
> 
> *I too am sorry to hear about your injury! Speedy recovery.*
> 
> ...


 
*My doctor put me in a plastic cast last week to keep it as immobile as possible for 3 weeks. I go back to see him November 19th. Hopefully, it will ease the knot in my calf & loosen my ankle flexion: so I won't need surgery. *

*When I teach, I try like crazy to not demonstrate kicks...but it's not easy!  I really do appreciate all the support & encouragement I receive from all of you folks. You guys understand what it means to not be able to train. I'm glad I'm not alone.:asian:*


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## miguksaram (Nov 4, 2008)

igillman said:


> It beats the alternative!!!
> 
> Getting older means you fight more with the head and less with the body. So you cannot run and jump with the rest of them (join the club) but you still have forms and step sparring you can practice.


 
Well if I was doing that, I wouldn't have stepped into the ring with the kid in the first place. ha.ha.ha.  Yes, I know I have other things I can do, once I heal up that is.  After 28 years, this is the worst injury I have ever sustained in the martial arts so, you know...it's not all bad.


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## miguksaram (Nov 4, 2008)

terryl965 said:


> Sorry to hear about the colapse lung miguksaram, this will sideline you for a couple of weeks.


Thanks.  I am definetly out for 2-3 weeks.  No forms, fighting and yelling at the underbelts.


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## Kacey (Nov 5, 2008)

IcemanSK said:


> *My doctor put me in a plastic cast last week to keep it as immobile as possible for 3 weeks. I go back to see him November 19th. Hopefully, it will ease the knot in my calf & loosen my ankle flexion: so I won't need surgery. *
> 
> *When I teach, I try like crazy to not demonstrate kicks...but it's not easy!  I really do appreciate all the support & encouragement I receive from all of you folks. You guys understand what it means to not be able to train. I'm glad I'm not alone.:asian:*



I've had that problem myself - let your students demonstrate; it will make them feel good when you choose them to demonstrate for you.


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## IcemanSK (Nov 5, 2008)

Kacey said:


> I've had that problem myself - let your students demonstrate; it will make them feel good when you choose them to demonstrate for you.


 

Good thought. Thanks! I'll try:ultracool


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## MasterWright (Nov 15, 2008)

Hey my friend, Those chronic injuries can get you down. I did not read all the posts so I may say something that has been covered. 

I have had sucess with active release therapy which rids that affected area of scar tissue. Perhaps a combo of Physio and this technique might help, providing they know where to concentrate their efforts. 

The active release will help get new blood to the area and help it heal as I understand scar tissue prevents this. 

Just another thing to look into, hope it is of some help. Don't let it get you down, you will be back.


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## IcemanSK (Nov 15, 2008)

MasterWright said:


> Hey my friend, Those chronic injuries can get you down. I did not read all the posts so I may say something that has been covered.
> 
> I have had sucess with active release therapy which rids that affected area of scar tissue. Perhaps a combo of Physio and this technique might help, providing they know where to concentrate their efforts.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks Master Wright!

I've been exposed to active release a bit thru my chiropractor, but not to much. I will certainly seek it out if things at UCLA do not solve the issue.

I go back to see them on November 19th.


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## Carol (Nov 15, 2008)

When I first began my martial arts journey, one of my instructors had recently lost the use of his arm.   He was often seen in the school, but usually not in uniform and he wasn't seen on the mat at all.

One day, in the middle of the class, the person teaching said we would divide up to work on forms.  Then, in a loud, confident voice, my instructor walked on the mat, in full uniform, and explained how the class was going to be divided and which forms were going to be practiced.  

For a split second, it was so quiet that you could have heard a pin drop.  But only for a split second...because then the room was filled with a chorus of "Yes sirs" and the sounds of students hurrying to their group's section of the mat.

My instructor often had students demonstrating for him.  (The other instructors did too, for that matter).  I never saw this as taking anything away from their teaching ability...and I learned a heckuva lot about perseverance.

Hang in there my friend.  Lots of prayers going out to you...from me and folks you may not even know.  :asian:


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## IcemanSK (Nov 15, 2008)

Carol Kaur said:


> When I first began my martial arts journey, one of my instructors had recently lost the use of his arm. He was often seen in the school, but usually not in uniform and he wasn't seen on the mat at all.
> 
> One day, in the middle of the class, the person teaching said we would divide up to work on forms. Then, in a loud, confident voice, my instructor walked on the mat, in full uniform, and explained how the class was going to be divided and which forms were going to be practiced.
> 
> ...


 


I appreciate your encouragement a great deal, Carol! I'm working hard on teach by using words more. I would love to use students to demonstrate more often. But my highest ranked student is a 12 year old green belt. Although he is quite good, it's not always the ideal situation. I'm still working on it.

Hopefully, I'll find out on Wednesday that my calf muscle has repaired itself, that I will no longer need the cast on my leg, & that I won't need surgery. Prayers are much appreciated!


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## IcemanSK (Nov 19, 2008)

Well, I just got back from the doctor. He said he wants me to wear the plastic cast for another few weeks. Then take it off for 2 hours a day & see how that goes. I'll gradually increase the time I'm without it. He said I definitely tore the muscle. He could still feel the "knot" of muscle where it was damaged. I go back in early January for the next visit.

I feel great that they have a plan & actually care about my health. I'm not looking forward to wearing this plastic cast for longer, but I'm fine with it if it works & keeps me from having surgery.

Thanks again for your prayers & support!


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