# Grafting



## Big Don (Sep 8, 2007)

My Sifu is BIG on grafting, that is taking parts of techniques and mushing them together and seeing what works. How often do you do grafting?


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## ChadWarner (Sep 10, 2007)

Big Don said:


> My Sifu is BIG on grafting, that is taking parts of techniques and mushing them together and seeing what works. How often do you do grafting?


 
Grafting:  What a concept.   Let me ask you this:  What does your instructor graft together and why?

Chad Warner


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## Big Don (Sep 11, 2007)

Any and all of the techniques, which can include an entire technique+part of a technique or part of this + part of that + part of this,  to teach us that while the techniques taught in the system cover a lot of things, they are not the be all, end all  of self defense.


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## Seabrook (Sep 11, 2007)

Grafting is an essential tool. 

When we learn the self defense techniques in the ideal phase, even if something goes wrong in our execution, we can graft into another ideal phase technique. That is one reason why deleting techniques from the system is a really bad idea in my opinion.

Graft away.


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## Big Don (Sep 11, 2007)

Sometimes it is kind of fun, most of the time it is way over my head and frustrating, but, then I am only a Green Belt...


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 11, 2007)

I work on "grafting" all the time.  At this level I work on grafting based on opponent position recognition and counters...not just grafting one technique to another because it can flow that way.


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## kempo-vjj (Sep 11, 2007)

We have another name for it in our system called transition points. When in the lower belts theres a light that turns on after learning a new technique sometimes. I turn to me teacher and say "at this point here I could use this other move as well right"? It's was a giant leap for me that day.


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Sep 12, 2007)

Sometimes, I like cherries on my banana splits. Sometimes, just whipped cream and peanuts. Guess it depends.

D.


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## IWishToLearn (Sep 12, 2007)

LOL! It's 9AM man. Time for some ice cream? 

How ya been Dave?


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## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Sep 13, 2007)

IWishToLearn said:


> LOL! It's 9AM man. Time for some ice cream?
> 
> How ya been Dave?


 
Motorin. You? How's the back?


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## ChadWarner (Sep 15, 2007)

Big Don said:


> Any and all of the techniques, which can include an entire technique+part of a technique or part of this + part of that + part of this, to teach us that while the techniques taught in the system cover a lot of things, they are not the be all, end all of self defense.


 
To be sure, where the line ends the circle begins gives one an opertunity to graft anything together but it can be futile if the same dimensional zone is cancelled twice by concuring blows- Some blows are designed as a set up or opening of a position or posture, meaning a stance, left or right nuetral bow in relation to an attacker or positioning of the body before, during or after an attack.  Just a small example of say a heel palm to the mandible on a number 1 plane 7 direction will open the the solar plexus for an attack from many directions with many effects.  Regulation of force and direction of force are major considerations when grafting.  

These are just some small considerations to begen with when grafting.  Try to ask why your instructor is grafting certain things together.  Probabley in one way or another all techs are the outcome of some sort of grafting-  things like five swords just takes technique study to a high level per se because of the sequencing- and interpretations within the sequencing.  

There are lots of people here to give hints and directions to you- Sometimes there is a lot contained in a simple question

Reguards
Chad Warner


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## 14 Kempo (Sep 15, 2007)

Hello and welcome to MartialTalk ... enjoy!

We do the same, why, cause an opponent may not move exactly as you expect them to during a given technique. A person must flow from one technique to another, dependant upon the situation. We don't necessarily graft them together on purpose. We try to teach a person to recognize what is available and take it.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 18, 2007)

14 Kempo said:


> Hello and welcome to MartialTalk ... enjoy!
> 
> We do the same, why, cause an opponent may not move exactly as you expect them to during a given technique. A person must flow from one technique to another, dependant upon the situation. We don't necessarily graft them together on purpose. We try to teach a person to recognize what is available and take it.


Its really all point of origin, target recognition, and purpose.
Sean


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## Kenpojujitsu3 (Sep 20, 2007)

Touch Of Death said:


> Its really all point of origin, target recognition, and purpose.
> Sean


 
Dammit Sean, stop simplifying things to the least common denominator!


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## Dr John M La Tourrette (Dec 20, 2007)

Seabrook said:


> Grafting is an essential tool.
> 
> When we learn the self defense techniques in the ideal phase, even if something goes wrong in our execution, we can graft into another ideal phase technique. That is one reason why deleting techniques from the system is a really bad idea in my opinion.
> 
> Graft away.


 
Hi Jamie,

I agree totally. Here's why.
The techniques are training drills. When you graft you adapt to the targets that appear spontaneously.

Which is difficult for most people under Brown belt. They just don't yet know enough waza, or have only learned the waza's to competency level III.

Which means they are still doing Kenpo with their conscious minds and not with their unconscious (habit) minds.

Grafting drills are the only way to gave high performance skills on a automatic subconscious level.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette


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## Touch Of Death (Dec 26, 2007)

What is WAZA again? I must admit that every time you use this term I have no idea what is being said; so, please hook us up.
Sean


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## tellner (Dec 26, 2007)

Waza means "Technique". Ashi means "foot" hence Ashi Waza are foot techniques. Osaekomi means "pin". Osaekomi Waza are pinning techniques.

Regarding Don's original question, "grafting" is an absolutely vital skill. If you just have a collection of techniques you don't have much. If you have a huge list of techniques and can only perform them as isolated responses to specific attacks you have what my Silat teacher calls "Organized Despair". 

There's a lot of long elaborate techniques in many martial arts. Kenpo is no exception. _Unless you completely outclass
[*]_ the other guy - always a bad assumption in a fight - the odds against actually pulling of a seven or eight or eighteen move combination exactly the way it is taught in class are vanishingly small. Soldiers like to say "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." But it doesn't mean that there's no reason to teach them.

You have to give beginners something concrete to work on. So you give them movements which teach good body mechanics and sound attributes like efficiency, timing, distance and protecting themselves. If they movements are valid they'll get something useful out of them. You have to Kenpoize them before they can be Kenpo players.

As students progress they don't have to think about the techniques and basics in order to perform them correctly. They can pick out parts of the forms and techniques (if they've been taught with some understanding) and use those pieces. 

Eventually what they know how to do, how they react under pressure, the degree to which they've internalized their training and their ability to react in a useful manner all come together. They can use the bits that are appropriate to the situation. As they get better they learn to use parts of one technique with parts of others according to the dictates of the moment. With more skill and understanding they can mix and match without having to think about where the parts come from and change what they are doing on the fly in response to what the opponents are doing or are about to do. 

The goal is to just do what will work best at the moment. The techniques and forms and set ups and tricks and lists of strikes and throws and all the rest of that are vehicles to help move one towards that goal. A person who can not do that at need is stuck at a certain level of development.

By the time we've been at this for a few years we have all the technique we're ever going to use and then some. It's not about having the biggest shiniest tool collection. It's about having enough of them and knowing how to use them well enough to do useful things.

[*] I have to say "Unless you completely outclass". Otherwise someone is bound to say "Well, I used exactly that long many-move technique exactly as taught. It worked a treat." When you ask "What did he have and how good are you?" The answer is usually along the lines of "I've got twenty years and six stripes on my belt. He didn't have my chops or speed or experience."


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