# Komen caves...



## billc (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, in the spirit of freedom of choice, the Susan G. Komen charity to fight breast cancer was assaulted by supporters of Planned Parenthood because they had decided that it was their choice to not fund Planned Parenthood.  Well...since choice is only an option for liberal groups, the hollywood left and the rest of the left went on a campaign to force a reversal of that decision and apparently they have succeeded.  You can't have people who choose the wrong decision now can you?  If they do, they must be attacked and punished.  

http://bigjournalism.com/



> The Atlantic Wire reports that the Susan G. Komen foundations website was even hacked, for some period displaying a banner that had been changed from _help us get 26.2 or 13.1 miles closer to a world without breast  cancer_  to read, _help us run over poor women on our way to the bank_.  And the long repeated myth that the current Komen CEO takes home a half a million dollar salary was brought back to life yesterday  even though the truth is that Komens current CEO, Nancy Brinker, takes home $0 in annual salary.
> But hey, breast cancer isnt supposed to be political, right?





> To those who are skeptical that Planned Parenthood is the bastion of womens wellness with all the best interests of women in mind that its fervent supporters claim it is, Slate points out that there are in fact some legitimate concerns regarding Planned Parenthood.
> in reading  the report put together by Americans United for Life,  which helped launch the investigation, there are some legitimate  concerns. Planned Parenthood offices in California, New Jersey, New  York, and Washington state have at various times been audited by state  and federal authorizes and discovered to have been overbilling state  agencies and committing other improper billing practices. Further,  Planned Parenthood has a record of not reporting instances of sexual  abuseand Im not talking about 16-year-old girls who come in with their  19-year-old boyfriends. The AUL report documents a case in which a  13-year-old girl was raped by an older foster brother and was  impregnatedtwice. Planned Parenthood is required, if it wants to  receive federal funds, to comply with mandatory reporting laws.​In viewing the 181 page report from _Americans United for Life_, there are a key number of claims against Planned Parenthood that initiated those investigations:
> 
> Misuse of federal health care and family planning funds.
> ...


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## Josh Oakley (Feb 4, 2012)

Assaulted? Nice choice of phrase. Lol

This was no assault on free speech. This WAS free speech. This was that marketplace of ideas that free speech is meant to allow for. And SGK gave in to the dissenting side.

But let's be honest, billi. If this were a group of Christians successfully campaigning and getting Planned Parenthood to stop providing abortions, you wouldn't have characterize that as an assault. You wouldn't be talking about freedom of choice. You wouldn't be talking about free speech. 

So drop the rhetoric. It does your case no good, and in fact takes away from it.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

It's 2 day old news, what took you so long to pick that PP thing up? Slacking, kiddo! Falling down on the job!

Komen is caving to the pressure of _women_ not standing for their attempt to cave to rightwing agenda to cut health benefits for women on the lower scale of the income ladder.

Not to mention that Komen's spending habit are not all that it's cracked up to be. Along with a rather large overhead, not a lot is going to the actual research. 

http://butterbeliever.com/2011/10/2...-i-do-not-support-susan-g-komen-for-the-cure/

it shows some of the financial papers.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html?pagewanted=all
Now who wants to go back to the good old days of back alleys and rusty coat hangers?

However, Komen is supposed about breast cancer. Early detection is key to successful treatments. PP provides exams and low cost mammograms.


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## billc (Feb 4, 2012)

The left tactic of hacking someone elses website is an attack.  Typical of the left, but not surprising.


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## Tez3 (Feb 4, 2012)

billcihak said:


> The left tactic of hacking someone elses website is an attack. Typical of the left, but not surprising.




:feedtroll


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

PP does not provide anyone mammograms.  They refer them to other places.  Act like a middle man take a cut of the money and then pay the bill.


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## billc (Feb 4, 2012)

To that point, from the article...



> Susan G. Komen Foundation paid $46,861,000 overall in 2010 on breast cancer screenings, according to the foundation&#8217;s most recently available annual report from 2010.  The Associated Press reports that Planned Parenthood received $580,000 in grants from the foundation for screenings that year, and that Planned Parenthood says it has performed 170,000 breast exams over the past five years as a result of Komen grants.  That would average out to 34,000 screenings annually, a small percentage of Susan G. Komen&#8217;s total screenings.  Given that Planned Parenthood merely serves a pass-through and refers women to other providers for mammogram screenings, the foundation could certainly maximize its spending by cutting out the middle man and funding such providers directly, especially those that provide all the screening tests in one location.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> PP does not provide anyone mammograms.  They refer them to other places.  Act like a middle man take a cut of the money and then pay the bill.



They provide the vouchers, true. Like the Shelter giving vouchers for free or cheap to have your pets spayed. To facilities who bough the expensive machines and hired specialized personal and still have to send it off to a radiologist to be read. A service that is not free but more affordable than having to go through a non PP clinic. I understand that my GYN having the service in house is not the norm but I am immensely grateful to her for providing that service, given that I have a family history of breast cancer and I don't have to go to yet another office. 

It's not like Komen does the screening either: They take a 20% cut and pay the clinic....

BTW, gentlemen can also get breast cancer. And receive services at PP. 

But yeah, I get it. You hate PP.


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## elder999 (Feb 4, 2012)

Maybe, in the world of Obamacare, this won't be necessary, but the fact is that the very women likely to use Planned Parenthood for the services that so many have issue with: contraception and abortion (not to mention STD screening for free-oops, I did!) are in a socioeconomic group least likely to get regular mammograms and pap smears. If a woman who works at the lab needs contraception or abortion, they're covered by her insurance, and she gets them through her regular provider, just as she gets her annual mammogram and pap smear. 

So it's really about poor people, again. "**** em."

It's also worth pointing out that top executives of Komen were resigning or threatening to resign over this, and that 50 congressmen signed a very strongly worded letter.

And that $600,000 just isn't very much money at all.


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## Carol (Feb 4, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Maybe, in the world of Obamacare, this won't be necessary, but the fact is that the very women likely to use Planned Parenthood for the services that so many have issue with: contraception and abortion (not to mention STD screening for free-oops, I did!) are in a socioeconomic group least likely to get regular mammograms and pap smears. If a woman who works at the lab needs contraception or abortion, they're covered by her insurance, and she gets them through her regular provider, just as she gets her annual mammogram and pap smear.
> 
> So it's really about poor people, again. "**** em."
> 
> ...



Nonono Elder, follow the groupthink.  

This is a group of people that are perceived to not be Republican voters.  They MUST be scorned.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

elder999 said:


> Maybe, in the world of Obamacare, this won't be necessary, but the fact is that the very women likely to use Planned Parenthood for the services that so many have issue with: contraception and abortion (not to mention STD screening for free-oops, I did!) are in a socioeconomic group least likely to get regular mammograms and pap smears. If a woman who works at the lab needs contraception or abortion, they're covered by her insurance, and she gets them through her regular provider, just as she gets her annual mammogram and pap smear.
> 
> So it's really about poor people, again. "**** em."
> 
> ...



Well, Birth control is most often not covered, not automatically anyhow. You have to get it pre-approved or pay out of pocket. Compared to Viagra...

Also it is not only poor women who go there. Some go there because the service is better. 

Well, yes, it's about poor people. But mostly about women.


And indeed, the 600 grand isn't that much. Seems a lot of disgruntled people have since made up the deficit and then some in 2 days. 
I think Komen will feel a backlash from this for a while to come.


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## elder999 (Feb 4, 2012)

granfire said:
			
		

> Well, Birth control is most often not covered, not automatically anyhow. You have to get it pre-approved or pay out of pocket. Compared to Viagra...



The Pill is usually covered, as it can be used to treat several things other than unwanted pregnancy.

As are abortions.

As was my vasectomy-if I wanted to try having it reversed, I'd have to pay for it, though.


And, no, it's not "only" the poor who go to PP-it's also kids. In any case, it's pretty much as I said: a woman who has insurance gets her annual mammogram and other services, and generally doesn't need to go to PP.


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## elder999 (Feb 4, 2012)

billcihak said:
			
		

> The left tactic of hacking someone elses website is an attack.  Typical of the left, but not surprising.



Since we don't know who was responsible for that particularly clever bit of hacking, attributing it to "the left" is specious at best-the attacker will remain......._anonymous_.

Of course,by your "logic," the left was clearly responsible for infecting the Iranian nuclear control system with the Stuxnet virus-a "left tactic" of hacking.

Typical of your logic, but not surprising. :lfao:


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

I don't hate PP.  I think they do provide a service.  I hate that they provide abortions but that's not all they do.  I do see komens point.  Why pay a middle man when they can pay the clinic directly and save money.  I also see the point in not giving money to organizations that are under federal investigation 




granfire said:


> They provide the vouchers, true. Like the Shelter giving vouchers for free or cheap to have your pets spayed. To facilities who bough the expensive machines and hired specialized personal and still have to send it off to a radiologist to be read. A service that is not free but more affordable than having to go through a non PP clinic. I understand that my GYN having the service in house is not the norm but I am immensely grateful to her for providing that service, given that I have a family history of breast cancer and I don't have to go to yet another office.
> 
> It's not like Komen does the screening either: They take a 20% cut and pay the clinic....
> 
> ...


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> I don't hate PP.  I think they do provide a service.  I hate that they provide abortions but that's not all they do.  I do see komens point.  Why pay a middle man when they can pay the clinic directly and save money.  I also see the point in not giving money to organizations that are under federal investigation



Like Pen State?

Abortions are at about 3% of their services, and some have reconsidered abortions after being counseled by PP staff. I would see the point as well, if the standard wsn't skewed.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

granfire said:


> Like Pen State?
> 
> Abortions are at about 3% of their services, and some have reconsidered abortions after being counseled by PP staff. I would see the point as well, if the standard wsn't skewed.


like pen state what?
I already said abortions is not all they do.  That has nothing to do with a private charity deciding who and who not they have the right donate too.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> like pen state what?
> I already said abortions is not all they do.  That has nothing to do with a private charity deciding who and who not they have the right donate too.



Komen gives Pen State grands. Now, I do believe there should be some scrutiny on an institution that allows child rape to commence for several decades. But that is just me I suppose.


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## Josh Oakley (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> PP does not provide anyone mammograms.  They refer them to other places.  Act like a middle man take a cut of the money and then pay the bill.




My wife got a mammogram there.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## Carol (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> like pen state what?
> I already said abortions is not all they do.  That has nothing to do with a private charity deciding who and who not they have the right donate too.



Penn State is under federal criminal investigation stemming from the allegations that Jerry Sandusky had sex with little boys in the confines of the university

Komen has given them millions...yet strangely, even after Komen clarified that their new policy has been for criminal investigation, they have said nothing about defunding Penn State,  an institution under ... federal criminal investigation.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

granfire said:


> Komen gives Pen State grands. Now, I do believe there should be some scrutiny on an institution that allows child rape to commence for several decades. But that is just me I suppose.


Got it.  I didn't know what you were talking about.  I don't know everyone they donate too.  I do agree if they have apolicy they need to stick with it


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> My wife got a mammogram there.
> Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk



That's good for her because everything I have read says no PP clinic actually has a mammogram machine they just do referrals to other places.  Like. My doc doesn't do lab work they refer me to the lab corp office down the street.


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## billc (Feb 4, 2012)

Some thoughts on what the  Komen foundation did wrong...http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/03/lessons-from-the-komen-foundation-fiasco/


> *Komen was unprepared for Planned Parenthood&#8217;s reaction.* Go back and review Jill Stanek&#8217;s post on Komen&#8217;s initial decision. According to her, Komen wanted to make its grant criteria decision quietly and move on. Komen did not anticipate that Planned Parenthood would make sure the decision was not only not quiet, but that it would become a firestorm for an organization that, up to now, has enjoyed decade after decade of positive press. Komen might have been complacent, but more importantly, it was naive. Today&#8217;s statement, in which Komen reiterates its desire to move on, suggests that that naivete has not been punctured. Given Planned Parenthood&#8217;s history and leadership, there was no way it would take any adverse decision lying down. No one should have expected it to do anything but fight, so Komen should have gamed out Planned Parenthood&#8217;s likely reactions, and planned its own counter actions.





> *Komen was overmatched.* Since its founding in 1982, the Komen Foundation has been led by Nancy Brinker, the sister of breast cancer victim Susan G. Komen. The foundation is largely a labor of love taken on in the late Komen&#8217;s memory. The foundation has enjoyed friendly relations with everyone for decades, both because it is a labor of love and because it is apolitical. It has no obvious enemies, and raises money for an unquestionably good cause. By contrast, Planned Parenthood has been around for more than 70 years, and was founded by progressive eugenicist Margaret Sanger. Planned Parenthood was political from its inception, and devious about pursuing its goals, and has spent its entire lifetime battling political enemies and establishing, and in some cases buying, its friends in politics and the media. It doesn&#8217;t donate to Democrats such as Sen. Patty Murray out of the kindness of its heart; it donates to Democrats so they will advance its interests and, when fights arise, defend it from external threats. Planned Parenthood&#8217;s current leader, Cecile Richards, is the daughter of late Texas Gov. Ann Richards, and is probably as media savvy as her mother was. The mainstream media is, by and large, sympathetic to Planned Parenthood and circles around it whenever it runs into problems. The media says very little about the various scandals surrounding Planned Parenthood all over the country. So in making a decision that Planned Parenthood would not like, Komen found itself at war with one of the most media savvy and politically sophisticated organizations in the country.



Some more info. on the attack on the Komen Foundation:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_wrath_of_the_abortion_movement_unleashed_on_komen.html



> But Komen did _not_ completely cut Planned Parenthood out of current funding or exclude Planned Parenthood from future funding.  _Nor_ did they reverse the original decision and decide to re-fund Planned Parenthood in the future.  They merely reversed their decision in favor of considering Planned Parenthood's eligibility for future grants.  The Komen foundation is rightfully concerned that Planned Parenthood is the focus of federal and state investigations for financial irregularities, fraud, sex trafficking, failure to comply with laws requiring reporting minor's sexual abuse and parental notification for abortion, as well as substandard medical care...
> 
> 
> The organization claims that abortion comprises only 3% of their services, but this is statistical manipulation. If a woman shows up for abortion, she can receive a pap smear, STD test, hemoglobin and blood type, all related to the abortion.  Planned Parenthood can claim that they have provided four services in addition to the abortion.  Planned Parenthood is also a major purveyor of birth control pills, a risk factor for breast cancer acknowledged but underestimated on Komen's own web site.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

billcihak said:


> Some thoughts on what the  Komen foundation did wrong...http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/03/lessons-from-the-komen-foundation-fiasco/
> 
> Some more info. on the attack on the Komen Foundation:
> 
> http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_wrath_of_the_abortion_movement_unleashed_on_komen.html



http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340153

In case you get bored.
That's what women have to say about Komen and the pink thing. There are a lot of reasons to not like Komen. the PP thing was just the last nail in the coffin.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Not sure what a bunch of horse people prove.  I can find just as many woman that are pro komen and just as many against PP.  




granfire said:


> http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340153
> 
> In case you get bored.
> That's what women have to say about Komen and the pink thing. There are a lot of reasons to not like Komen. the PP thing was just the last nail in the coffin.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Not sure what a bunch of horse people prove.  I can find just as many woman that are pro komen and just as many against PP.



Those are horse _women._ Educated and not, unemployed to corner office, many of whom has dealt with breast cancer in one form or another. Or with the Komen foundation. Or with PP.

You know, the demographic that is actually affected - most affected - by this discussion, or rather the topic of the discussion. 

It is a hint for billi to actually go to he source past the propaganda he relies on.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

And again I can find just as many woman that disagree with you.  My mother aunt and grand mother all have battled breast cancer my grandmother lost.  My aunt is a huge komen supporter does the walks and fundraisers every year since she won her battle 3 years ago.  I still don't see your point.  You can find people out there that dislike anything and everything.  




granfire said:


> Those are horse _women._ Educated and not, unemployed to corner office, many of whom has dealt with breast cancer in one form or another. Or with the Komen foundation. Or with PP.
> 
> You know, the demographic that is actually affected - most affected - by this discussion, or rather the topic of the discussion.
> 
> It is a hint for billi to actually go to he source past the propaganda he relies on.


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## Josh Oakley (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> That's good for her because everything I have read says no PP clinic actually has a mammogram machine they just do referrals to other places.  Like. My doc doesn't do lab work they refer me to the lab corp office down the street.



Doublechecked with the wife. I was wrong. They do the physical breast exam at planned parenthood, and refer the actual mammogram.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Oh and by the way tell my father that woman are the only demographic really effected by breast cancer.  It effects husbands, fathers and sons just as severely.  Tell my grandfather he's not effected when my grandmother died after 41 years of marriage.  Oh wait you can't he only lasted 2 months after she passed away.  Went from healthy to dead in 2 months.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Josh Oakley said:


> Doublechecked with the wife. I was wrong. They do the physical breast exam at planned parenthood, and refer the actual mammogram.



Im sure its more cost effective for them.  That's what most doc offices do too.  We have a large imaging center they do xray mri mammograms pretty much all that in one place and all the doc offices just refer people to it.


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Oh and by the way tell my father that woman are the only demographic really effected by breast cancer.  It effects husbands, fathers and sons just as severely.  Tell my grandfather he's not effected when my grandmother died after 41 years of marriage.  Oh wait you can't he only lasted 2 months after she passed away.  Went from healthy to dead in 2 months.



Yes, indeed. (I did mention this like a bazillion posts ago)

So another reason why the pink flood is majorly annoying. Guys can get it too, and most of them don't have tatas. 

My condolences. Cancer is a menace.

(and yes, we get caught up in this mess. Cancer is not discriminatory. Ok, some cancers can only be had by one gender, but there are some that are sold to us as gender specific that simply are not. Like cervical cancer, many times caused by HPV has a male counterpart, same as breast cancer)


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> And again I can find just as many woman that disagree with you.  My mother aunt and grand mother all have battled breast cancer my grandmother lost.  My aunt is a huge komen supporter does the walks and fundraisers every year since she won her battle 3 years ago.  I still don't see your point.  You can find people out there that dislike anything and everything.



The foundation gave something to them that helped them battle cancer. That is all fine and dandy. The foundation is not all bad. By far. But it is not the only group to raise money, though they have started to bill themselves as such. 

Legal battles over the word 'cure' should leave a bad taste in anybody's mouth. 

But frankly, if the charity fits your bill, support them, by all means. 
But the point is, when you put women's health on your banner, stand by it.

But there are better, less commercial fundraisers than the Komen foundation.

But the ladies in your family, if it helps them in their fight, more power to them. I tip my cap to their fighting spirit.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Im not talking about males getting cancer im talking about a husband delaing with losing a wife, children losing a mother both of which are just as effected 





granfire said:


> Yes, indeed. (I did
> mention this like a bazillion posts ago)
> 
> So another reason why the pink flood is majorly annoying. Guys can get it too, and most of them don't have tatas.
> ...


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Im not talking about males getting cancer im talking about a husband delaing with losing a wife, children losing a mother both of which are just as effected



I am not quiet following you.

If you are talking about losing a family member, yes, been there, done that. Come April  it will be four years since my sister died. 
Her becoming sick about killed my parents. 
Oh, and my stepmother got it at the same time. Bad, too. 
She found some fighting spirit and is still with us. Maybe the only reason my dad is still up and running, though a sad shadow of his former self.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes that's what im talking about.  You made the comment about breast cancer only impacted woman and I was saying it effects alot more people then that.





granfire said:


> I am not quiet following you.
> 
> If you are talking about losing a family member, yes, been there, done that. Come April  it will be four years since my sister died.
> Her becoming sick about killed my parents.
> ...


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## granfire (Feb 4, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> Yes that's what im talking about.  You made the comment about breast cancer only impacted woman and I was saying it effects alot more people then that.



_Cancer_ affects the whole family. Heck, any terminal disease affects the people around the patient. 

However, men can also get breast cancer. Violently! The pink flood does draw a good bit of attention away from that. 

But:
The point is not to argue about who suffers more from cancer.

The point is that a reasonably good charity lost sight of it's mission, bowing to political pressure. 
If they had done so in a less conspicuous way (like canceling their checks to Pen State as well) maybe not much would have come from it. 

Now this has irked a lot of people, from all walks of life. This had drawn attention to the charity's spending habits. 
It has also drawn attention to their attempts to monopolizing parts of the English language. I am sure the pink thing has been under fire as well.
Not to mention the habit of branding commercial products, which studies have long shown that it increases the sales for the company selling the pink stuff in the month of October. A lot of fishy stuff going on there as well!

The foundation started off with the best of intentions and has turned breast cancer into big business. 


Regardless, I wish all teir walk for the cure participants that they are able to complete many more in the future.


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## Carol (Feb 4, 2012)

granfire said:


> _Cancer_ affects the whole family. Heck, any terminal disease affects the people around the patient.
> 
> However, men can also get breast cancer. Violently! The pink flood does draw a good bit of attention away from that.



This is basic marketing.  Iconic branding has everything to do about _promise _and nothing to do with _accuracy_.

When was the last time Coke said their drinks were a "brown liquid"?   Isn't that an accurate statement?  But they never say that.  Coke promises something...fun, excitement, etc.


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## granfire (Feb 5, 2012)

Carol said:


> This is basic marketing.  Iconic branding has everything to do about _promise _and nothing to do with _accuracy_.
> 
> When was the last time Coke said their drinks were a "brown liquid"?   Isn't that an accurate statement?  But they never say that.  Coke promises something...fun, excitement, etc.



Well, Komen is promising 'the Cure' to the point of trademarking the word.

Coke is not a charity....


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## Monroe (Feb 5, 2012)

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/02/03/running-for-pink-ribbons-inc/



> &#8220;Where is the research money going?&#8221; asks writer and social activist,  Eleanor Leopold, who points out that the focus is always on how much  money is being poured into research, not what is coming out. The lack of  coordination amongst researchers globally is another source of  frustration, as is the focus of that research, as well as the fact that  Komen only spends 24 per cent of income on research.  So too is the seeming lack of interest in breast cancer prevention or  work with environmental justice groups&#8212;which stands in direct opposition  to the sources of much of Komen&#8217;s funding.
> 
> It&#8217;s been criticized for allying itself with purveyors of goods that are  harmful to women&#8217;s heath and the environment, including cosmetics, food  products, gasoline.



I stopped buying pink products after reading _Pink Ribbons, Inc.: Breast Cancer and the Politics of Philanthropy  _in 2007. I'll give money to cancer research. But not the pink foundation.


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## billc (Feb 6, 2012)

A quick question, why does everyone defend planned parenthood?  Sure, you can say they provide care for women who need access to abortions and other medical issues, but why defend them and not support another organization that does the same thing without the vile origins?

For example, if you had a new healthcare provider that did the same thing as planned parenthood, but was called say, E.U.H.L. Women's centers, and they had most of their clinics in minority neighbor hoods, I am sure at first glance many here would support their efforts.  However, if it was discovered that E.U.H.L. Women's centers were founded by a women who was a German National Socialist workers party member, (nazi) I am also sure that they would be quickly run out of town, and rightly so.  I don't think you would see arguments about these clinics providing a needed service in minority neihborhoods, and the other arguments presented to defend planned parenthood.  So why defend planned parenthood, an organization that was founded by a socialist who wanted to limit minority populations, a sentiment that is german national socialist in nature if not in fact?

And for my fans out there, another copy, and paste...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_lefts_genocide_of_minorities.html



> Founder Margaret Sanger was influenced by Malthusian eugenics, and noted  eugenicists were on the PP board, including Alan Guttmacher, vice president of  the American Eugenics Society[SUP]1[/SUP].  Sanger's lover and mentor,  Havelock Ellis, was a follower of Francis Galton, a leader in  eugenics[SUP]2[/SUP].





> In  a speech to the Fabian Society in London in 1915, she said that "Tho [sic] I was  rocked in the cradle of Socialism -- for my father was one of the early pioneers  of Socialist thot [sic] in USA yet with my nursing experience among women -- I  could see the [great] undermining & weakening of that class both physically & mentally [through] ignorance of the care of their own bodies &  especially the physiological functioning of the sex organs" (Fabian  Hall Speech).  Sanger wrote articles for _The Masses_ and other  socialist publications.  In her autobiography, she explained why she joined  the Socialist Party: "A religion without a name was spreading over the country.  The converts were liberals, Socialists, anarchists, revolutionists of all  shades. They were fixed in their faith in the coming revolution as ever any  Primitive Christian in the immediate establishment of the Kingdom of God. Some  could even predict the exact date of its advent"[SUP]8[/SUP].
> 
> Another  important socialist connection for Sanger was W.E.B. Du Bois.





> One  of Sanger's first clinics opened in Harlem in 1929.  To give it legitimacy,  she invited prominent black ministers, social  workers, and journalists to be on the advisory council.  In 1939 she  started the "Negro Project," headed by Clarence Gamble of Procter & Gamble.   Gamble suggested that she hire a black minister to preach the gospel of  birth control in the mode of a religious revival and that she hire a black  physician and nurse to administer the birth control.  This would allay the  suspicions of white supremacy in the black community, even though a photograph  of Sanger addressing a Ku Klux Klan meeting is  available.  In her correspondence to Gamble, Sanger said: "We do not  want the word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and  the minister is the man who can straighten that  out"[SUP]3[/SUP].







> Planned  Parenthood itself displayed amazing complicity in racial targeting when a young  man associated with _The Advocate_, a student publication at UCLA, called  its affiliates in seven states in 2007 saying he wanted to make a donation.   Several of their officials were eager to accept the money -- even when the  donor stipulated that he wanted it to be used _only to kill black preborn  babies_.  A Planned Parenthood affiliate in Idaho expressed excitement  over the gift, despite the fact that the donor was motivated by racism. The  phone call was  recorded:Caller:  Okay, so-so the abortion could -- could be -- you know -- I could give money  specifically for a black baby. That would-that would be the  purpose.
> Planned  Parenthood: Yeah. Absolutely, um, if you wanted to designate that you wanted  your gift to be used to help an African-American woman in need, um, then we  would certainly, ah, make sure that that gift was earmarked specifically for  that purpose. ​
> A  2010 report from the Guttmacher Institute confirmed the disproportionate  minority statistics: of all abortions, non-Hispanic black women accounted for  30%, Hispanic women 25%, and 3% members of other races, including American  Indians[SUP]11[/SUP].



With this sort of origin, why not champion a more neutral provider?


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## granfire (Feb 6, 2012)

billcihak said:


> A quick question, why does everyone defend planned parenthood?  Sure, you can say they provide care for women who need access to abortions and other medical issues, but why defend them and not support another organization that does the same thing without the vile origins?
> 
> For example, if you had a new healthcare provider that did the same thing as planned parenthood, but was called say, E.U.H.L. Women's centers, and they had most of their clinics in minority neighbor hoods, I am sure at first glance many here would support their efforts.  However, if it was discovered that E.U.H.L. Women's centers were founded by a women who was a German National Socialist workers party member, (nazi) I am also sure that they would be quickly run out of town, and rightly so.  I don't think you would see arguments about these clinics providing a needed service in minority neihborhoods, and the other arguments presented to defend planned parenthood.  So why defend planned parenthood, an organization that was founded by a socialist who wanted to limit minority populations, a sentiment that is german national socialist in nature if not in fact?
> 
> ...





Who says that a 'more neutral provider' is not championed?

How ever, this is the discussion about Komen and PP, and not about any other providers for women's health care. 
In this context I do champion PP over Komen as the people who actually walk the walk.


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## granfire (Feb 6, 2012)

And I just now noticed the 'walk' pun...

my bad.


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## crushing (Feb 7, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> That's good for her because everything I have read says no PP clinic actually has a mammogram machine they just do referrals to other places. Like. My doc doesn't do lab work they refer me to the lab corp office down the street.



A story on NPR stated that there are a few PP Clinics that have the facilities to do mammograms and those facilities were to continue to receive Komen funds after the larger national grant expired.  Additionally, the non-renewal of the grant was only at the national level.  Local and state level Komen organizations could maintain funding to clinics as they saw fit.

http://www.boston.com/Boston/dailyd...-parenthood/w7bXQAzOWIRSHeeDY4J34O/index.html


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## granfire (Feb 7, 2012)

crushing said:


> A story on NPR stated that there are a few PP Clinics that have the facilities to do mammograms and those facilities were to continue to receive Komen funds after the larger national grant expired.  Additionally, the non-renewal of the grant was only at the national level.  Local and state level Komen organizations could maintain funding to clinics as they saw fit.
> 
> http://www.boston.com/Boston/dailyd...-parenthood/w7bXQAzOWIRSHeeDY4J34O/index.html





wishy washy?

meh...


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## crushing (Feb 7, 2012)

granfire said:


> wishy washy?
> 
> meh...



I don't know where you are trying to go with that post.  There are grants and funds made available at different levels of the organization.  The national organization chose to not renew a specific grant.  This choice (which was later reversed) did not impact the other funds and grants that Komen provided to Planned Parenthood.

It may seem "wishy washy" in context of the narrative that was manufactured in the media to marginalize and demonize the SGKF, but it really isn't.

Maybe I have a different point of view because I am an officer in a charitable oranization that has local, state, and national levels and I can see a clear separation in operations, even though the ultimate goal is shared.  What the national level decides to or not to do in regards to grants and donations does not necessarily change what the state level does, or we do at the local level.


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## granfire (Feb 7, 2012)

where did my post go? Not enough coffee me thinks...



Aight, take two:

A) They didn't defund all of it, so why make a big whoop?
B) They caved in so quick. If they were serious about it, why not tough it out?

it was better the 1st time around, but meh....old age is catching up to me.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 7, 2012)

granfire said:


> where did my post go? Not enough coffee me thinks...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good question PP is the ones that made national news crying about it.


> B) They caved in so quick. If they were serious about it, why not tough it out


another good question I guess they got tired of people hacking the web site and creating havoc


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## WC_lun (Feb 7, 2012)

Okay Billi, what other national organization does as much for women's health as Planned Parenthood, particularly poor women?  Besides, I don't really care what the origination of PP is. They do good work now, and that is what is important.  Painting them as a Nazi program because the founder might have been a member is trying to derail the focus from what they actually do.  I understand you do not agree with abortion.  I can respect that.  However, some of this stuff you have been posting is just politisized nonsense.


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## ballen0351 (Feb 7, 2012)

WC_lun said:


> Okay Billi, what other national organization does as much for women's health as Planned Parenthood, particularly poor women?  Besides, I don't really care what the origination of PP is. They do good work now, and that is what is important.  Painting them as a Nazi program because the founder might have been a member is trying to derail the focus from what they actually do.  I understand you do not agree with abortion.  I can respect that.  However, some of this stuff you have been posting is just politisized nonsense.


medicade.  Priority partners. Ive never met a poor woman that didn't already have govt provided health care.  What PP does is provide abortions for young confused woman that dont see another option.


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## billc (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes, ignoring the targeting of minorities by planned parenthood's founder, the socialist Margaret Sanger, is so easily overlooked isn't it.  Imagine if planned parenthood was a republican/conservative supported institution that today had 4 out of 5 clinics in minority communities, and that over 50% of the ending of unwanted human life was "people of color," and I am sure everyone supporting them now would be just as supportive...because they provide a needed service to women.  Just imagine the s*** storm that would hit the fan if this was the case instead of planned parenthood being supported by the democrat party.  Of course, the history of slavery and jim crow and the klan that comes with the democrat party once again begs the question, how does anyone support this organization?

Actually, sanger was just a plain socialist, not a german national socialist.  Funny, though, how socialiasts of different stripes still go for that population control thing.

For the fans of copy and paste, and I know you are out there...

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/most-us-planned-parenthoods-located-in-minority-communities-report



> Using data from Planned Parenthood&#8217;s website and the 2000 U.S. Census, Crutcher&#8217;s team broke down by zip code each Planned Parenthood clinic as well as each non-Planned Parenthood abortion clinic affiliated with the National Abortion Federation or the National Coalition of Abortion Providers.
> The data shows a large proportion of both clinic types located in disproportionately minority neighborhoods, including 51% of all Planned Parenthood clinics located in areas at or above 125% of the state minority average.
> &#8220;What I was stunned to see is how many of these zip codes were 250 percent, 300 percent, 700 percent, 1800 percent higher [minority concentration above state average],&#8221; Crutcher told LifeSiteNews.com in a telephone interview last week.
> In addition, of the 116 ZIP codes found to have more than one population control facility, 84 were disproportionately black and/or Hispanic. Crutcher&#8217;s research paper points to a New Jersey zip code with nearly three times the average black population and four population control facilities, and a Minnesota ZIP code with nearly eight times the number of blacks and three such facilities.


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## granfire (Feb 7, 2012)

ballen0351 said:


> good question PP is the ones that made national news crying about it.
> 
> another good question I guess they got tired of people hacking the web site and creating havoc




Getting hacked? Ah, yes, the cost of doing internet business.

However, I think the slam Komen received is justified:

You put a policy forth and enforce it unevenly you have to accept being accused of bias.
The manner in which they seemed to have informed the recipient of the money is poor form. 'Oh, btw, we are cutting your grant' - nice.

As an organization with limited funds, depending on public donations, heck yes you go public when over a half a million bucks are pulled from your coffers. 

Had point 1 and 2 been handled differently, I am sure the response had been different as well. 


As it is, your dislike for PP shines through -  they 'cried' about it.


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## billc (Feb 7, 2012)

So, if the German national socialists, or the democrat organization, the ku klux klan, opened clinics for ending unwanted human life, in minority communities, but also provided mamograms and other medical needs to minority women, you guys would be okay with that?


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## ballen0351 (Feb 7, 2012)

granfire said:


> Getting hacked? Ah, yes, the cost of doing internet business.


So your ok with breaking the law if it fits your political belief? 



> However, I think the slam Komen received is justified:
> 
> You put a policy forth and enforce it unevenly you have to accept being accused of bias.
> The manner in which they seemed to have informed the recipient of the money is poor form. 'Oh, btw, we are cutting your grant' - nice.
> ...



The half. Million does not even put a dent into the 14 million is salary for its top CEOs
And yes they did cry.  Boo hoo they wont give me their money i know its theirs but i want it and i want it now


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## ballen0351 (Feb 7, 2012)

billcihak said:


> So, if the German national socialists, or the democrat organization, the ku klux klan, opened clinics for ending unwanted human life, in minority communities, but also provided mamograms and other medical needs to minority women, you guys would be okay with that?



You will never get an honest answer.  Its the same group of people that would rather see a catholic hospital shut down then allow them not to provide abortions.


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## billc (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes, I know, join the collective or be attacked.  There is an article that shows that with this success, they are going to target other charities that don't support the "ending unwanted human life" planned parenthood...

http://bigjournalism.com/driehl/2012/02/07/after-komen-left-now-targeting-other-private-charities/



> In the wake of the Komen fiasco, Daily Kos has now fixed its sights on another private charity &#8212; Paul&#8217;s Pantry of Green Bay, Wisconsin. The leftist website is hurling expletives and encouraging readers to go after the food program for allegedly refusing to send their truck to a Planned Parenthood location to pick up donated food.





> The Planned Parenthood location posted an item on their Facebook page. A scroll down the page indicates they were very active in the campaign to intimidate Komen over Planned Parenthood funding.
> Paul&#8217;s Pantry refused our food donations collected by our area health center to help combat local hunger. This level of extremism impeding individual access to essential health care and now food is outrageous and must be stopped.​As best as can be ascertained for now, Paul&#8217;s Pantry claims this has always been standard policy. Evidently, that&#8217;s not enough for Planned Parenthood and the left. Now, to operate as a private charity in America, it would seem any organization must support abortion and Planned Parenthood in particular or risk attack.


There is no such thing as saying no to the socialist left.
​


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