# Best self defence art?



## Im redy 4 u (Dec 13, 2007)

I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence.  What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions?  Thanks.


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## Em MacIntosh (Dec 13, 2007)

Barfighting.  The longer you survive the better you get.

Seriously, JKD.  I'd recommend wrestling or boxing (or both) as a core from which to develop your natural fighting mode.  A good teacher will train you under pressure, tire you out and push your limits.  As a quick answer, for "eastern" MA's wing chun (try not to get caught up in the wing tsun, ving tsun BS) has a good track record, jiu jitsu and judo are very "hands on" too.  If you can find it russian KGB sambo ought to do the trick rather nicely (and , ah, brutally).  Karate is okay but don't let it work against your natural fighting mode or you'll be fighting yourself as well.  Karate just isn't for everybody so you really want to make sure whether you belong there or not.  Ask a few street folk for some tips too.  You might learn a thing or two.  Don't restrict yourself and keep an open mind.


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## Brandon Fisher (Dec 13, 2007)

Anyone that teaches true non sport self-defense.  Self-Defense incorporates everything possible to protect yourself.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2007)

From another post (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57327/#12)

A partial list

Boxing, MMA, Bafaquan, Baguazhang, Bajiquan, Bak Mei, Black Tiger, Chaquan. Chow Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Dragon Kung Fu, Eagle Claw, Emeiquan, Fanziquan, Five Ancestors, Fujian White Crane, Gou Quan, Houquan, Huaquan, Hung Gar, Jow-Ga Kung Fue, Lau Gar, Leopard, Liuhe Bafa, Luohan Quan, Mei Hua Quant, Mian Quang, Nanquan, Northern Praying Mantis, Paochui, Piguaquan, Shaolin Nam Pai Chuan, Shaolin Quan, Shuai Jiao, Southern Praying Mantis, Taijiquan, Tantui, Tien Shan Pai, Tongbeiquan, Wing Chun. Wudangquan, Xingyiquan, Yingzhaoquan, Yiquan, Sanshou/Sanda, San soo, Muay Thai, Eskrima (Kali), Sikaran, Kombatan, Pananjakman, Pangamut, Sikaran, Kuntao, Silat, Sindo, Aikido, Battojutsu, Bojutsu, Bujinkan, Daito-ryu, aiki-jujutsu, Genbukan, Goshin Jujitsu, Hakko Ryu, Jinenkan, Jojutsu, Judo, Jujutsu, Kenpo. Kinomichi, Ninjutsu, Shoot boxing, Shooto, Shorinji kempo, Shotokan, Shukokai, Sumo, Goju-ryu, Isshin-ryu, Karate, Okinawan kobudo, Shorin-ryu, Uechi Ry&#363;, Hapkido, Taekwondo ,Tang Soo Do, and Krav Maga 

Now what you need to do is check out some and find out which ones best fit you, interest you most and have the best teachers.


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## Blindside (Dec 13, 2007)

Im redy 4 u said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence. What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions? Thanks.


 
*"I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what food is the best.  What do you all think is the tastiest, in your own opinions.  Thanks."*

Now, we could do a twenty page thread on all of our opinions, but would any of that really change your mind?  Would me explaining why natto (fermented soy bean curd) is the best really going to impact your opinion of pizza?  Especially if you can't get natto in your area?  

Lamont


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## bigfootsquatch (Dec 13, 2007)

Im redy 4 u said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence. What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions? Thanks.


 
I would stay away from arts that are oriented towards point sparring competitions that many karate and taekwondo schools are involved in. SO what if you can tap someone on the head and get a point? That is NOT self defense. ANYWAY, before I get off on a rant, I will say this:

The teacher's ability to teach and the student's willingness to learn and practice are what makes a good martial art/self defense art.


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> Jojutsu



Jujutsu? _Really?_


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## Gordon Nore (Dec 13, 2007)

In addition to the arts named above, you need an experienced instructor who trains students in a variety of s/d scenarios again and again and again.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 13, 2007)

arnisador said:


> Jujutsu? _Really?_


 
Jojutsu (aka Jodo) is done with a Jo also know as a short, round stick of wood. 

http://www.answers.com/topic/jodo-1


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## arnisador (Dec 13, 2007)

I knew that (actually, jojutsu and jodo aren't _quite _the same, though in practice they essentially are these days). Since the question was about what "the best martial art is for self defence" I found your answer...surprising. It wasn't a typo, then, I gather--you consider this one of the best arts for self-defense?


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## tellner (Dec 14, 2007)

Ching Ching Pao and Mexican Judo

_[Ju doan' know if I got a knife. Ju doan' know if I got a gun. Ju doan' know if my vatos are standing behind you. Ju doan' know what I'm gonna do ]_


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## bushidomartialarts (Dec 14, 2007)

tellner said:


> Ching Ching Pao and Mexican Judo
> 
> _[Ju doan' know if I got a knife. Ju doan' know if I got a gun. Ju doan' know if my vatos are standing behind you. Ju doan' know what I'm gonna do ]_



Thanks...I'd forgotten about ching ching pao.

Seriously, except travelling with guns or allies (or both), there is no superior style.  There's superior instruction.  There are superior students.  There are superior training methods.

Compared to those three factors, choice of style is nigh irrelevant.


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## searcher (Dec 14, 2007)

Though I have limited knowledge of Krav Maga.   I have been very impressed with it in regards to SD.  But I also see so much potential in Muay Thai for use in SD situations.

It kind of depends on how much time you have to devote, availability, the knowledge of the instructor, and a multitude of other factors that you have to take into account.



On a less serious note, I have been getting very aquainted with Taurus-fu and Glock-do, they are so easy I don't even have to sweat to perform their techniques.    And when they don't work I can always fall back on Remington 870-jutsu.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I knew that (actually, jojutsu and jodo aren't _quite _the same, though in practice they essentially are these days). Since the question was about what "the best martial art is for self defence" I found your answer...surprising. It wasn't a typo, then, I gather--you consider this one of the best arts for self-defense?


 
I am not debating which art is the best art for self defense I am just pointing out that the question is in my opinion asking for a specific answer were one does not exist.

You say JKD I could say police military Sanda. One person says Wing Chun another says Karate and yet another says Judo and one says Sambo. 

There are a myriad of Martial arts styles out there and it pretty much comes down to what the person training it feels about it. Frankly if I went to train JKD it would not work at all for me and I think JKD is very good at self defense. But I would not travel the distance to the school nor would I pay the exuberant sums of money to train it. I also think SPM is a very good fighting art but I do not have the time to train it and even if I did there are no SPM schools near me. 

You need to figure out first what is available in your area and exactly how big your area is. Some may not want to travel far others may be willing to travel to another county. Some may be willing to take a long time to learn like you would need to for Taiji or Xingyi and others may want it quicker like you would get with Sanda, Krav Maga or MMA. You may be absolutely convinced that JKD is the ultimate martial art but when you go to the school you find you REALLY do not like the teacher so it is likely you won't go. 

The point I am trying to make is that there are way to many variables (opinion and personal experience being some of those) that make it rather difficult to answer the question "what the best martial art is for self defense"


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## arnisador (Dec 14, 2007)

I certainly concur that there is no "best" art--not for all circumstances, and especially not for all people and not regardless of the instructor's viewpoint and methods--and that's an important point to make. But I think some are more applicable to self-defense than others, and one can give some pointers in that regard.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 14, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I certainly concur that there is no "best" art--not for all circumstances, and especially not for all people and not regardless of the instructor's viewpoint and methods--and that's an important point to make. But I think some are more applicable to self-defense than others, and one can give some pointers in that regard.


 
I do not disagree but again it comes back to what the person asking the question has available to them in their area and what they are willing to do to train and how much time they want to spend at training.

I can tell then Police/Military Sanda is great for self defense, and it is, but finding a real teacher is rather difficult outside of China (and not all to easy in China for a westerner). They are in the US but very few and hard to find. And even if they found a teacher would they be willing to train it.


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## Guardian (Dec 14, 2007)

_Whatever allows me to go home at night to my wife, whether it''s my Martial Arts training (all aspects of it) or my Personal Protection training either separate or alittle of both._

_G_


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## JadeDragon3 (Dec 26, 2007)

I don't think that one particular martial art style is best for self defense. I think that it all depends on the martial artist. Everybody's skill level is different so it would be hard to say which style is best. All style offer something of value in some way so it would be extremely hard to pick one style. BUT if I had to pick one then I would have to say Sil Lum Kung Fu (mandrin for Shaolin).


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## Drac (Dec 26, 2007)

The* BEST* will be whatever works bestfor *YOU!!!!*


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## onibaku (Dec 26, 2007)

if you can mix muay thai and jiu jitsu then you're well balanced


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## still learning (Dec 26, 2007)

Hello, Just an opinion here......JUDO.  Very hands on, you learn quicker because of this.

The whole idea is to off balance the person and throw them....once thrown and unbalance the Judo person has the advantages....

Experiencing Judo is the only way to know why? ...it would be near the top or top to be consider a "best self-defense".

Many times people only see the sport side....there is a combat side to it too.....

Aloha,  getting punch or kick hurts..getting off balance and thrown...one only hope the JUDO thrower is nice to you on the landing...

PS: Try facing a Judo expert....than you will know.....Just one opinion here.


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## Spinback (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree with people that have said there isn't any superior art. There are inferior ones, but no elite. However, since this _is_ an opinion based thread, I'll give my own opinions on what you need to be prepared to defend yourself in a streetfight situation. This is based off my own experience as well as research and anecdotes from others.

1. You need to know how to fight on the ground. If you don't, you're one takedown away from being dead. So what if you know sixteen striking techniques that will each incapacitate a person? Those are hard to do when your enemy is in a full-force rush, and if you miss you're done. I suggest BJJ for this because I learned some and it has worked for me in training and practical scenarios.

2. You need to be aware of your surroundings. Learning to use all five senses and watch your environment while you're fighting isn't easy, but if you accidentally run into a brick wall when you're dodging a tackle you could get hurt badly.

3. You need to know how to protect yourself. It doesn't matter how hard you can punch or how slick your ground game is if your attacker floors you with his first move.

4. You need to know how to deal damage. Through practical throws like a wrist throw or hip throw, or fast striking, or submissions, it doesn't matter. Unless you can hurt the person, they won't stop trying to hurt you.

5. Most importantly... you need to know how to improvise. I'm a confident fighter, but if some punk had me backed into an alley my first instinct would be to throw a brick at him and run. If you can find a weapon, use it. If you can run, do it. If you can call for help, start screaming.

Just my two cents.


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## TrainHardFightEasy (Dec 27, 2007)

onibaku said:


> if you can mix muay thai and jiu jitsu then you're well balanced


 
A hurting machine in the making


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## LawDog (Dec 27, 2007)

There are no bests, only good ones. Every street situation is different so the art that correctly addresses your impending threat is the best.
:knight:


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## tellner (Dec 27, 2007)

LawDog, I know what you're saying here, and I respect you for it. But some styles are excellent, good, fair or so worthless you're better off not learning them at all. An excellent craftsman can do a fine job with poor tools. But anyone will do better with tools that are suited to the job.

Plenty of martial arts styles are simply lousy tools for any sort of fighting or defense. Consider molasses-slow Taiji, Tohei's Ki Society Aikido, almost all competition Wu Shu,  Moder Pentathlon, the sports-only versions of WTF TKD, the expensive bondage gear version of .22 rifle shooting and a number of others. As presented they are pretty darned worthless if you want to prevail when someone is trying to hurt you.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 27, 2007)

tellner said:


> Plenty of martial arts styles are simply lousy tools for any sort of fighting or defense. Consider molasses-slow Taiji,


 
Please...keep thinking that :EG:


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## tellner (Dec 27, 2007)

I will certainly do that. What passes for Taiji almost every time simply is not a martial art. Consider the Taoist Tai Chi organization or almost any group that is teaching it "for health". There is no push hands to speak of and less with a partner who isn't completely cooperative. There are no exercises for developing internal strength. There is little work on storing and releasing from your own motions let alone doing it with an incoming attack. There is nothing like that. There's just endless repetition of the Yang Short Form, maybe a jian form and some pretty darned empty silk reeling exercises at ever-slower speeds. It's not even being done slowly to develop body awareness. Everyone knows Taiji is done slowly, so ever-slower must automatically be better.

There are some people who teach Taiji as a martial art. They are very very rare.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 27, 2007)

tellner said:


> I will certainly do that. What passes for Taiji almost every time simply is not a martial art. Consider the Taoist Tai Chi organization or almost any group that is teaching it "for health". There is no push hands to speak of and less with a partner who isn't completely cooperative. There are no exercises for developing internal strength. There is little work on storing and releasing from your own motions let alone doing it with an incoming attack. There is nothing like that. There's just endless repetition of the Yang Short Form, maybe a jian form and some pretty darned empty silk reeling exercises at ever-slower speeds. It's not even being done slowly to develop body awareness. Everyone knows Taiji is done slowly, so ever-slower must automatically be better.
> 
> There are some people who teach Taiji as a martial art. They are very very rare.


 
A generalizations based on many but not all does not make it correct. There is taiji-light and there is Taijiquan. But I am the fist to say that true martial taiji is rare.

But please keep thinking this; it works to my advantage and to many that study with the Tung/Dong family or in that line (as I do) and many that train with the Chen family as well. Oh and Zhaobao, must not forget Zhaobao, they generally love fighting but apparently have not been told they are ineffective and slow.

We may do the forms slow but applications are fast once you understand the forms and how they work and Tung Ying Jie has 2 fast forms and Chen style has slow forms, slow/fast forms and fast forms. Zhaobao has slow and slow/fast but the slow/fast is rare.

However I will also say Taiji is not a quick learn for martial arts purposes, it takes a long time and I would not recommend it to anyone looking for a quick fix to their self-defense needs


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## still learning (Dec 27, 2007)

Hello, After reading all above comments...it seems one needs to learn how to fight standing up.....one needs to learn takedowns...and learn how to fight on the ground....and learn to get back up fighting anyway you can.

Learning to use the brains and proper verbal words too for avoidance.

One will also need to learn to be in good shape and have lots of endurance from there training.

One needs to  learning running too...escaping methods

and learn in the adrenline training too.........
====================================================

A Qi gong master told us.....just do it....think nice things...do nice things, and speak nice things....you will never need to prepare for a fight.

Yes sometimes there are people who fights us.....Yet most of us will never every use our fighting techniques or skills.......awareness and avoidance with proper verbal words....is all we will every need.

Look around how many people do not ever train in any martial arts...and there lives go on without incidents.  

Aloha,


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## TrainHardFightEasy (Dec 27, 2007)

I honestly think some Martial Arts really are superior and others inferioir for self defence purposes. In my mind you could give some Martial Arts say a 2 or 3 star rating and others a 5.  But at the same time I understand it really is more about the indidvidual.


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## LawDog (Dec 27, 2007)

Tellner,
I should have paid more attention to what I was writting but I was in a rush this am and didn't really re-read.
My post was supposed to read, only good ones and then there are others.
So I do agree with you.


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## tellner (Dec 28, 2007)

Xue Sheng said:


> A generalizations based on many but not all does not make it correct. There is taiji-light and there is Taijiquan. But I am the fist to say that true martial taiji is rare.


I'd be happy if just a few more people remembered the "Quan" part. We did Taiji for a couple years at a school run by a former gazillion time Chinese champion, former National Team Coach, etc etc etc. I could never tell what he really knew because he never showed. It was all learn to perform a form, then take a test. He showed silk reeling exercises but it was just waving arms and legs around. The fact that I could hold my own in push hands with the black belt wasn't a sign of my studly skills. It's a poor reflection on what they were being taught. And many say he ran one of the better studios.
:flammad:

I've met a few players who could play. I've got the highest respect for them. If Ren Guang Yi crossed arms with me he would dribble me around like a basketball no matter what I tried. But men with his training and skill are extremely rare. For the most part people don't even try to teach it as a martial art or as a way of cultivating internal strength. 



> But please keep thinking this; it works to my advantage and to many that study with the Tung/Dong family or in that line (as I do) and many that train with the Chen family as well. Oh and Zhaobao, must not forget Zhaobao, they generally love fighting but apparently have not been told they are ineffective and slow.


I'll continue thinking that Taijiquan players with skills and fighting ability are rare. But I'll try really hard to hit first, from behind and with something sharp if I'm ever on the wrong side of one of the exceptions. That won't work to your advantage 



> We may do the forms slow but applications are fast once you understand the forms and how they work and Tung Ying Jie has 2 fast forms and Chen style has slow forms, slow/fast forms and fast forms. Zhaobao has slow and slow/fast but the slow/fast is rare.
> 
> However I will also say Taiji is not a quick learn for martial arts purposes, it takes a long time and I would not recommend it to anyone looking for a quick fix to their self-defense needs



I definitely understand slow and slow/fast. If I ever have a school again one of the school mottoes will be a great quote from Maestro Ramon Martinez: "Practice fast, learn slow. Practice slow, learn fast." What I can't stand or understand is slow as an end in itself or slow without also learning how to move from your center or slow without ever learning how to use their core, relax, draw strength up from the ground, feel, alleviate, store, generate, release and focus.

Taiji when taught properly is an incredibly effective martial art. But as practiced by the crystal-gazing bark eaters it's not worth the powder to blast it.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 28, 2007)

tellner said:


> former gazillion time Chinese champion, former National Team Coach,



means he likely knows form and what he does or did is mostly for acrobatics, gymnastics and competition and not taijiquan.



tellner said:


> I've met a few players who could play. I've got the highest respect for them. If Ren Guang Yi crossed arms with me he would dribble me around like a basketball no matter what I tried. But men with his training and skill are extremely rare. For the most part people don't even try to teach it as a martial art or as a way of cultivating internal strength.



This is why I am lucky; my Sifu was a long time student of Tung Ying Jie, considerably shorter and older than me and is incredibly good at throwing me around like a rag doll. As I have said in other posts he is the ONLY person I have ever had lock me with qinna that I never felt it or suspected it was coming. All of a sudden I am locked and rather shocked that I ended up in this position. But many years studying with Tung Ying Jie (who really liked qinna) and over 50 years of training only taiji I guess I should not be all that surprised.




tellner said:


> I'll continue thinking that Taijiquan players with skills and fighting ability are rare. But I'll try really hard to hit first, from behind and with something sharp if I'm ever on the wrong side of one of the exceptions. That won't work to your advantage



ahhh no please continue to think I am to slow to be of any concern what so ever :EG:

But even if you dont taijiquan in application is all about patients so thanks for the warning 




tellner said:


> What I can't stand or understand is slow as an end in itself or slow without also learning how to move from your center or slow without ever learning how to use their core, relax, draw strength up from the ground, feel, alleviate, store, generate, release and focus.



I cant either. But there is a lot of that in taiji today and I tend to think that it is virtually dead as an MA if you compare those of us that really train taiji to those that train the taiji health dance and throw in those that train taiji a couple of years (if that) and then go off to combine it with some other art like karate, long fist, aikido, etc. I believe Chen Xioawang said pretty much the same thing, which by comparison taijiquan as a MA is dying. 

I just read an add this morning for a class in Yang style taiji the long form that first made me think, who the heck is teaching and then when I read Ancient art of slow moving and exercise I no longer cared who was teaching it. First off Yang style is not ancient and the rest is pretty much self explanatory.



tellner said:


> Taiji when taught properly is an incredibly effective martial art. But as practiced by the crystal-gazing bark eaters it's not worth the powder to blast it.



I have told this story before ad nauseam so I will keep it short. I was once doing Taiji Sanshou with a student of another Sifu (not my Sifu) and he was fairly pathetic. He was too soft and did not complete any movements, it was a waltz to him and he was a bad dancer. 
If this was a student of my Sifu I would have been more aggressive and completed moves showing him why he should not be doing what he was doing, but I just went along for the ride to see where it took me. 

After we were finished I started to talk to him about taiji and the martial arts of taiji to which he replied I dont DO martial arts. I DO Tai Chi he felt that this made him superior to all other martial arts as well as invincible, it is internal you know, I truly hope he never found out the truth the hard way. I smiled at him and walked away. 

I also has a student walk out in the middle of a class once because I said taiji was a martial art to which she replied THIS is NOT karate!! and walked out.

Sadly these attitudes are the same as most of the taiji people doing taiji today and it is very wrong. And based on that I can agree with your statement of it being no good for self defense and slow as molasses. But based on my experience with my Sifu and a few I have been lucky enough to train with I cant agree but I will happily let every other non-taiji martial artist go on believing that.


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## JadeDragon3 (Dec 28, 2007)

IMO the best martial art for self defense would be either JKD or some martial art similiar. The reason I say this is becuase it uses techniques from alot of different styles and you use what works for you. JKD incorporates grappling as well as stand up fighting and teaches all ranges of fighting. I don't think that I would include BJJ as a good self defense art for real street fighting because in a lot of street fights you face have more than one opponent. BJJ does not work good if there is more than 1 opponent. However, if you are facing just 1 opponent and you know no friends of opponent is going to jump in then BJJ is really good. I also believe that besides the art you also have to take into account the skill level of the person and his/her fight experience.


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## Sensei Tom O'Brien (Dec 28, 2007)

OK - I admit I am biased but Vee-Jitsu is a good fighting art encompassing many arts.  I trained in Shotokan & TKD as well.  It is first and foremost ju-jitsu with a lot of judo bur we do a lot of karate, primarily Shotokan.  We do all the Heian kata, Bassai Dai & Sho.  We do TKD but primarily the Palgwe forms with Koryo & Kung Gong also a couple of Taiguk forms.  We do Arnis and fight full contact with sticks.  We do boxing, kick-boxing and primarily self-defense.  We adjust for karate competitions and do quite well.  Professor Vee, the founder, used to say that is nice to have a rose garden but think how much more beautiful it would be with tulips, gardenias, hyacinths, petunias, sunflowers, marigolds and so on.  It is something to consider.
Thanks,
Sensei Tom


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## Doc_Jude (Dec 28, 2007)

Best Self-defense Art? Better find something that's _*FAST*_, with realistic weapons defenses & applications. Do some Filipino arts, Indonesian Silat, Dog Brothers, Inosanto, & work at least some basic ground, BJJ, Kosen Judo, something. A year of good groundwork will put you light years ahead of anyone you will be attacked by, statistically speaking. There is the occasional stray drug-addled BJJ fighter that may try to carjack you, but they are few & far between. Good Silat has some pretty fly ground if you can get into grappling AND striking while prone. 
If it can't handle what you will encounter in a real self-defense situation, or at least help you "die less often" as Crafty Dog likes to say, then IT'S NOT GOOD SELF DEFENSE. Martial Arts don't make you invincible. You're just hedging your bets. In an open market with little quality control, it's up to you to tell teh r347 *Au* from the FeS2.


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## Remi Lessore (Dec 30, 2007)

Im redy 4 u said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence.  What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions?  Thanks.



The best self-defence method is:
Take a bus. Be somewhere else. Awareness - look over your shoulder frequently when in the street... and at the ATM. Learn to spot the up-to-no-gooders who are not going anywhere, but watching everyone else.

The 2nd best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.
Learn 
jab, cross, hook and uppercut with open or closed hand.
Learn front kicks (which you can also do sideways), and a mule kick.
Learn forward, backward and sideways elbowing.

All this is stuff we teach in the first few lessons of FEKM-RD krav maga. Look us up. www.krav-maga.net/uk


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## howard (Dec 30, 2007)

Remi Lessore said:


> The 2nd best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.


If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.

Preemptive attacks are much harder to explain away than defending yourself against an attack that has been initiated, and for good reason.


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## arnisador (Dec 30, 2007)

Remi Lessore said:


> best defence is attack. Take him out while he's thinking about doing it to you.





howard said:


> If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.



Regrettably, both these points of view are accurate: A pre-emptive strike is very effective, but exposes the person to later legal danger.

I interpreted *Remi Lessore*'s comment more in the sense of the best defense is a good offense as usually interpreted in self-defense, i.e., after things start you should steal the momentum/timing/rhythym of the fight and go to striking rather than blocking. That's much more defensible, as long as you stop when it's no longer a self-defense situation.


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## Tez3 (Dec 30, 2007)

howard said:


> If you take that route in the States, you'd better be sure that you can convince a court that you were in reasonable fear of imminent danger. Otherwise, you could very well find yourself on the wrong end of civil or criminal litigation.
> 
> Preemptive attacks are much harder to explain away than defending yourself against an attack that has been initiated, and for good reason.


 

Only if they catch you!


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## howard (Dec 30, 2007)

arnisador said:


> I interpreted *Remi Lessore*'s comment more in the sense of the best defense is a good offense as usually interpreted in self-defense, i.e., after things start you should steal the momentum/timing/rhythym of the fight and go to striking rather than blocking...


Ah, ok, that makes sense.

Overwhelming an incoming attack by "beating him to the punch" is a key principle in lots of Aikijujutsu and traditional Hapkido techniques.


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## Balrog (Mar 4, 2008)

It's not the martial art, it's the martial artist.

Someone who trains diligently in ___ will outperform someone who trains half-assed in ___.  Fill in the blanks as desired.


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## vforcesfc (Mar 4, 2008)

I believe in the individual has a lot to do with it....I believe if you are able to pick up the techniques quickly and use them to there full potential then *you* are good, it doesnt mean everyone will be good at it....That is why I created my system, I tried (Thats all I can do  ) to create simple, effective movements that you can use as reactionary attacks instead of a thoughtful combatives approach, meaning you have to think about your next move. 
I teach on how to use these moves and rapid close sequence attacks so when your heart rate is up and you begin getting tunnel vision, breathing is difficult, motor skills deterorate and so on, you are still able to defend and attack. So the more realistic under high stress and you can still see the systems techniques you are training in is a good system to be in....

Agree?


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## Sanchin-J (Mar 4, 2008)

Technically, there really is no "best" Self Defense art. Instead, you as the student must decide which art caters best to your needs and standards. Some arts focus on a more aggressive approach to training, some arts don't, do some research into the different styles in your area and talk to the instructors, I'm sure you will find something that suits you.


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## TsunNew (Mar 4, 2008)

what do you guys think of KunTao Silat?


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## chinto (Mar 4, 2008)

in the end the best self defense art is the one you are well trained in, continue to train in regularly and can use when attacked... I would tend to suggest one of the older arts that has NOT been modified for sport competition,  and is taught 'old school' ... but what you know and can use fast and effectively is the one that will save your ***!


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## Darth F.Takeda (Mar 6, 2008)

There is no best art, to many varibles.

For me it's Icho Yama Ryu Aiki Jujutsu because we center on self defense above all else.
We throw, takedown, joint lock (and destroy), choke, neck crank, strike and grapple.

We train for one on one and multple attack scenarios, we train with and against common weapons like knives, clubs, guns, garrotes, bottles, improvissed weapons and the like.

And still I need more, so I train with a group that does Pekiti Tarsia and Pencak Silat a few times a month and work on what I learn up there.

The best martial art is the one YOU create from your own studies in legitamate arts.
 When I fight, it's me, not Jujutsu, it's DylJutsu.


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## brycemaster (Mar 8, 2008)

Many people agree (and disagree) with me here, but cross-training almost never goes amiss, apart from some extremes i.e. Aikido/Karate. But I trained in Muay Thai to improve my striking speed and force and To-Shin Do for the actual self defence aspect, the only problem is, if you do both at the same time (like I did) the two can conflict, like some of the more gentle techniques in To-Shin Do where made more difficult by all the hours I spent kneeing and elbowing pads. Really it's all down to you, your instructor, what you want, and what you're going to do about it.


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## Guardian (Mar 9, 2008)

Im redy 4 u said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence. What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions? Thanks.


 
*After good thought on, there is no best martial art in my view.  It's up the individuals ability and training period.*


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## vforcesfc (Mar 11, 2008)

Totally Agree...


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## chinto (Mar 12, 2008)

Guardian said:


> *After good thought on, there is no best martial art in my view.  It's up the individuals ability and training period.*



My preference is for Okinawan Karate. its  both hard and soft, linear and circular. it is extremely effective in an altercation, and I have had the unfortunate experience of testing it when I knew a lot less of it then I do now...  Also unlike some styles kobujitsu (weapons art) is normally taught as part of the system in most Okinawan styles.

 but the most effective for you is the one you know and can use.


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## Hand Sword (Mar 12, 2008)

I'd say It's what you can use effectively. However, thinking about this and not wanting to be "generic" like my answer has become, who are we defending against? Other MA ists? Street Fighters? Boxers? A drunk with one big haymaker? I think this is usually the type of question that is asked about what is best to deal with other trained artists. All seem to be designed for a "one puncher" and are therefore equal. 


Seriously, we all know MMA and Kempo is the best!!!


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## Brandon Fisher (Mar 12, 2008)

chinto said:


> My preference is for Okinawan Karate. its both hard and soft, linear and circular. it is extremely effective in an altercation, and I have had the unfortunate experience of testing it when I knew a lot less of it then I do now... Also unlike some styles kobujitsu (weapons art) is normally taught as part of the system in most Okinawan styles.
> 
> but the most effective for you is the one you know and can use.


I have to agree with you


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## DatFlow (Mar 14, 2008)

I do not know if it was said or not, but I say Aikido, Just because everything rely's on the attackers attack's do carryout your move's... When I took Aikido, we learned grapples to throw's which I found VERY usefull in self defence....


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## ChadWarner (Mar 14, 2008)

Guardian said:


> *After good thought on, there is no best martial art in my view. It's up the individuals ability and training period.*


 
The instructors skill, and perseverence, and art.   Not all arts are created equal and not all versions of an art form are taught by knowledgeable instructors.


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## chinto (Mar 17, 2008)

DatFlow said:


> I do not know if it was said or not, but I say Aikido, Just because everything rely's on the attackers attack's do carryout your move's... When I took Aikido, we learned grapples to throw's which I found VERY usefull in self defence....



well if you are trained properly in a traditional Okinawan Karate style, you learn to grapple and throw as well as brake and strike and lock joints...   our local Aikido sensei  who is a friend of my sensei  watched us train and made the remark to use senior belts that " * we do not do any thing you folks do not do in your style!* "  so lots of paths up the mountain.. sooner or latter you end up the same place basically.


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## pudding11591 (Mar 27, 2008)

Krav Maga, it incorporates just about everything you need...


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## vforcesfc (Mar 31, 2008)

Wow, this went on longer then I expected....Everyone makes the point, YOU find something that fits you, until then never give up on cross training and always remain the student....


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## sgtmac_46 (Mar 31, 2008)

vforcesfc said:


> Wow, this went on longer then I expected....Everyone makes the point, YOU find something that fits you, until then never give up on cross training and always remain the student....


 Yeah, i'd say that's dead on with the cross-training.....cross-train and find something that works for you....because there is no one-size fits all art.


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## Sagat (Apr 15, 2008)

Any Martial art that you have trained in long enough, PROVIDED......in that martial art you regularly spar FULL CONTACT. 

Any art in which you do not experience being hit - i.e strike or takedown, might get by in a street fight, provided you don't get hit yourself.....................umm yeah............there's a BIG chance that in nearly every fight you will sustain damage of SOME SORT, how you take that hit can determine the winner. 

Having said that......Best self-defence art?  

If it had to be one I'd say Muay Thai, because, chances are you'll be standing when the fight starts. Stand up grappling with knees, elbows and take downs for close encounters. Plus strong striking from a distance. Provided you don't get taken down you'll do well. EVen if the opponent has a weapon, Muay Thai has great footwork. 

Even if your opponent has trained in a martial art before - Muay Thai has strong enough stand up to combat other stand-up fighting styles. Worst case scenario you punch-on with a seasoned boxer [strong chin, used to full-contact] in which case get in close, grapple and knee the **** outta him. 

Otherwise cross-training would be ideal for the street - 

Stand-up - Muay Thai - simple strikes with power are more than enough for the street.

Ground - Wrestling [for take-downs] BJJ [for submissions once on the ground]

I don't mention much about weapon defence because simply put, if your striking is strong/fast enough, your opponent will be knocked out. Generally speaking, very few people have a conditioned chin, so a little bit of power and alot of speed can do wonders.  I have proven this theory to myself.


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## Drunken_Boxer (Apr 15, 2008)

To me there is no "best self defence art", I study taekwondo, drunken boxing, and some trick stuff (not recommened for a street fight, but can be done if u know how to do it), and Im happy with that what Im learnin, uuhm...I can say "karate" is pritty popular for self defense, then u have "taekwondo" (of course when you also practice hand combat)...uuuhm to me every art is useful


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## 7starmarc (Apr 16, 2008)

It is not just the art, but the method in which you train the art. I read a book not too long ago, where the author pointed out that so many grapplers are trained in sport that they are trained to release on a tapout. He claimed that he has escaped some holds/locked in real situations by simply tapping out. The person then reflexively relaxes the hold and then makes it easier to escape.

At the school I train, the instructors sometimes talk about how the rules of some sport MA ingrain some dangerous actions into participants. One recent one was the classic bob and weave drill in boxing. Our instructor asserted that a boxer can perform that move in that way because there are no kicks in boxing and no strike to the back of the head. The classic bob and weave makes you more vulnerable to both of these tactics in a real fight.

This is not to say that wrestling/BJJ/boxing are inferior to other arts for street defense, but that certain training principles/practices can create weaknesses that can be exploited in a street fight.


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## Em MacIntosh (Apr 16, 2008)

Boxing.  If you win it looks manlier.


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## kwaichang (Apr 21, 2008)

whatever works


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## Brian S (Apr 21, 2008)

Im redy 4 u said:


> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what the best martial art is for self defence. What do you all think is the best, in your own opinions? Thanks.


 

 Rex Won Do,as long as they grab you with the correct hand.


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## AIKIKENJITSU (Apr 21, 2008)

arnisador said:


> I certainly concur that there is no "best" art--not for all circumstances, and especially not for all people and not regardless of the instructor's viewpoint and methods--and that's an important point to make. But I think some are more applicable to self-defense than others, and one can give some pointers in that regard.


   Our lives are short, so practice one good and effective art that you can enjoy and do for the rest of your life, or two.  I have been practicing for many years, a form of Kenpo combined wilth elements of Aikido.  I have my own form of Kenpo derived from Ed Parker and Tracy Kenpo ( I prefer Ed Parker though).  These have served me well over the years (I don't get into fights every week).  Also, after all these years, I am still learning about Kenpo.  Learning Kenpo goes on forever.
  Filipino arts arn't bad either.
Sifu


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## SeanKerby (Apr 21, 2008)

AIKIKENJITSU said:


> I have been practicing for many years, a form of Kenpo combined wilth elements of Aikido.


 
Ah, I thought your name was speaking of something akin to Nami Ryu Aiki Heiho. As in Aiki Kenjutsu. 

As to the question, what ever works and you become proficient in. I personally like a fireteam or squad of my Marines behind me.


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## kwaichang (Apr 22, 2008)

:jaw-dropping:Let us not forget the most effective martial art there is:
Smith & Wesson.


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## Deaf Smith (Apr 28, 2008)

kwaichang said:


> :jaw-dropping:Let us not forget the most effective martial art there is:
> Smith & Wesson.


 
Absolutly. Especially when performed with a 12 guage kata.

My base is Taekwondo. Notice I said base. I do alot of boxing and JDK (at least Bruce Lee's concepts.)

I honestly feel those that truely want to be able to defend themselves need to find one art, master it, and then look around and explore what other arts have to offer. 

I also feel some peoples physical attributes are better matched for partiular arts than others. Not only for their height and weight, but age and strength as well as moral and mental qualities.

But when all is said and done, a good pistol is hard to beat in the dark when welded by thoses how have trained under such conditions.

Deaf


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## kwaichang (Apr 29, 2008)

Indeed, you have hit all the right responses, IMO.  Sometimes the best defense is to run away while other times it may be a napkin holder smash to the face.
...ohhh, that sounds mean


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## Josh Oakley (May 1, 2008)

As a martial artist, I would say the best two self-defense arts are: Diplomacy, and situational awareness.


My martial art is for when the first two fail.


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## kwaichang (May 2, 2008)

Indeed.  In my self defense courses the first rule is "avoid".  Most of us can't outrun anyone bent on a life of crime but we can be aware of what is around us and potential situations.


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## qwksilver61 (May 13, 2008)

A complete well rounded art that doesn't require that you pay for 20 years to
*achieve *any one aspect of the art,be it spiritual,or physical.


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