# Considering starting Aikido



## TKDHomeSchooler (Dec 5, 2009)

I am considering leaving TKD after I pregress to purple belt, my knees are about shot and I don't want to just stop.

What I am wondering is how do you choose a dojo?  I have looked in my area and I found a set of schools that are run by the same Sensei (Aikido of Plano and Plano Aikido Center), the fee is not all that outrageous, I think I currently pay $130 per 8 week session (Wife actually writes the checks).

I do like that they say you can go to any of their dojos/classes, which adds flexibility and an opportunity to meet more martial artists and learn from many different people.

What I want to know is what else should I be looking for at this dojo?  I know if I walk in and I get a "Cobra Kai" sort of feeling to leave, but how does one evaluate a school?

My current TKD school was a no brainer for me as this school caters to home schoolers and my 4 oldest kids are students, then my Wife joined the adult class offered to the parents, so I joined too so we could all do something together.  But again, my knees are starting to interfere with my forms and progressing.

*Edit: I need to add that I don't want any religious aspect of any martial art I study. I am set with my Christian beleifs, so no chi or Eastern mysticism for me. I just want health and skill development.


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## jks9199 (Dec 5, 2009)

The chi concept is an integral part of aikido -- but you don't have to view it as some sort of mystical/religious thing.  Just view it as a tool to help you visualize and achieve the desired effect.  I posted about this recently in another thread...  Often aikido and internal arts will tell students to "project their energy" as they reach out, or "extend to the horizon."  I've noticed that when I reach out, there's an unconcious or automatic stop or counter-motion at "full extension."  But, if it extend through the technique -- not stretch, it's not the same -- there is a very subtle difference in the alignment of my arm muscles and bones.  (Give it a try... reach out as far as you can... and then relax.  Then reach out again, but think of brushing your fingernails against the opposite wall.  Maybe you'll see what I mean.)

Beyond that... what are you really looking for out of aikido?  Self defense skills, something to do, or what?  That'll shape what you want in a dojo.


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## TKDHomeSchooler (Dec 5, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> Beyond that... what are you really looking for out of aikido?  Self defense skills, something to do, or what?  That'll shape what you want in a dojo.



I am looking to continue to develop tools for self defense, to continue to have an outlet for exercise outside of treadmill/weights.  I would really prefer to stick where I am in TKD but last Thursday during a light sparring match I felt my left knee start to hurt and feel week (I sprained my MCL last session and took a 8 week session off to rehab it), so I am looking for a MA that will be sufficient for SD and increased strength, but not tweak my knees and cause me to sit out too much.

I also forgot to mention I am not that flexible in the quads, very tight hamstrings, and I am a big guy who fights squared off (makes for a real fun sparring match with my instructor :wink2


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## seasoned (Dec 5, 2009)

jks9199 said:


> The chi concept is an integral part of aikido -- but you don't have to view it as some sort of mystical/religious thing. Just view it as a tool to help you visualize and achieve the desired effect. I posted about this recently in another thread... Often aikido and internal arts will tell students to "project their energy" as they reach out, or "extend to the horizon." I've noticed that when I reach out, there's an unconcious or automatic stop or counter-motion at "full extension." But, if it extend through the technique -- not stretch, it's not the same -- there is a very subtle difference in the alignment of my arm muscles and bones. (Give it a try... reach out as far as you can... and then relax. Then reach out again, but think of brushing your fingernails against the opposite wall. Maybe you'll see what I mean.)
> 
> Beyond that... what are you really looking for out of aikido? Self defense skills, something to do, or what? That'll shape what you want in a dojo.


Nice insight. I, as you have mentioned, feel that reaching or stretching will put us at a disadvantage with our opponent. Also TKDHomeSchooler, I supplemented with some Aikido and found it to be very beneficial. Good luck.


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## Brian R. VanCise (Dec 5, 2009)

Well I think you should definitely check it out and see if it works for you and your knee's.  Note that most arts though not all do require that your knee's are functioning well.  Aikido and all of the Japanese arts have quite a bit of movement from seiza (kneeling position) and lots of transitioning from rolls to standing up, etc.  So when you go to the Aikido school check it out and of course let them know about your knee's and problems that you have had with Tae Kwon Do.  Hopefully the instructor will be able to work with you.  In my opinion that is some thing that most good instructors work at!  Good luck!


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## ELLEN (Dec 16, 2009)

I started with Aikido and I couldn't handle it....so, I went to AIKIJUTSU.  I have severe arthritis, nut, it is my choice to stay in MA, so I wear braces on my knees, and just "suck it up", so to speak!  LOL...I also have a private trainer in Aikido and that works well for me....I have the best of both worlds.  Aikido is fantastic, and most all Japanese MA are built on it...either hard or soft Aikido.  It can be like a "ballet" or, you can destroy somesone...but, then it ceases to really be called Aikido...I mean if you hurt someone on purpose.  Any move can be turn into anything and called whatever you want to.  I might add that I didn't start either till I was 65, so, I got a rather later start in the MA. 
    But, I held in there, and now am a 3rd degree BB!!!! @ 72!  So, GO FOR IT!!!!


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## ELLEN (Dec 16, 2009)

I re-read what you posted and one more thing occured to me. You mentioned you wanted "no religious aspect in any MA you study..." etc..."no chi in the Chinese or Ki in the Japanese....This is what I wanted to add:

Ki/Chi is just energy...we all have it. It is how it is used that is taught in MA. It is not "religious" in the sense of worshiping anything at all...the same as bowing to O'Sensei before one begins. That is just a sign of respect for the one who "fathered" the disicipline we are practicing...no more, no less. 

It can take a life time of practice to master "KI", BUT, when you "get" it once, or are the recipient, it is totally amazing! If you go to a dojo with a "full tea cup" (or head...), there is no room left to fill it up and learn any more...if so, you're wasting you time, and your money. 

Decide what you want from MA, keep your personal religious beliefs to yourself, they are yours to have wherever you go....and learn and enjoy, or, find something else.


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## TKDHomeSchooler (Dec 16, 2009)

ELLEN said:


> I started with Aikido and I couldn't handle it....so, I went to AIKIJUTSU.  I have severe arthritis, nut, it is my choice to stay in MA, so I wear braces on my knees, and just "suck it up", so to speak!  LOL...I also have a private trainer in Aikido and that works well for me....I have the best of both worlds.  Aikido is fantastic, and most all Japanese MA are built on it...either hard or soft Aikido.  It can be like a "ballet" or, you can destroy somesone...but, then it ceases to really be called Aikido...I mean if you hurt someone on purpose.  Any move can be turn into anything and called whatever you want to.  I might add that I didn't start either till I was 65, so, I got a rather later start in the MA.
> But, I held in there, and now am a 3rd degree BB!!!! @ 72!  So, GO FOR IT!!!!



Wow, truly inspiring and good read, along with your later post about my not wanting any religious aspect of MA, only the fitness and skill.

I understand that I can take or leave whatever an instructor teaches, I have just gotten spoiled I guess by having an instructor with the same Christian beliefs I have.

I have a 3 week break until the next session starts so I will be doing some private rehab and may be sticking with TKD and sucking it up much like you are with your training.

Only time will tell...


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## ELLEN (Dec 16, 2009)

TO TKD HOME SCHOOLER: Thank you for your nice response. I don't think you as "spoiled" as wanting people around you with the same beliefs you have...it is only "human" to want to be comfortable with those that we feel are "like us". 
*BUT*, that can also leave us narrow in our learning, as it is a huge world out there. 
We can learn something from everyone, doesn't mean we have to adopt it & accept it into our own lives. If we open ourselves up to new thoughts and ideas, somtimes we can be amazed at what a fantastic world this is.
*ANY* reference or talk of religion on the mat is a no-no at our Dojo. Of course as we get to know people, we talk...but, that is after class, and, our choice. 
A Dojo is a school, usually to train in MA...not a Church, Temple, Mosque or Sunday school. 
I wish I knew how to send you a private message with a link...but, I don't...LOL.
Anyway, try to keep it all in perspective, and go with the flow. YOU are in charge of YOU, so, take the reins and do what makes you happy...no one promised us a great tomorrow...so again...enjoy whatever, and just go for it!
Ellen


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## Tez3 (Dec 16, 2009)

ELLEN said:


> TO TKD HOME SCHOOLER: Thank you for your nice response. I don't think you as "spoiled" as wanting people around you with the same beliefs you have...it is only "human" to want to be comfortable with those that we feel are "like us".
> *BUT*, that can also leave us narrow in our learning, as it is a huge world out there.
> We can learn something from everyone, doesn't mean we have to adopt it & accept it into our own lives. If we open ourselves up to new thoughts and ideas, somtimes we can be amazed at what a fantastic world this is.
> *ANY* reference or talk of religion on the mat is a no-no at our Dojo. Of course as we get to know people, we talk...but, that is after class, and, our choice.
> ...


 
Ellen, your white belt status means you haven't got the required post count yet to 'progress'. To send a PM click on to the posters name and a little box will come up and you can click on what you want to do, send PM , read profile etc.


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## Aikikitty (Dec 16, 2009)

Hi,

TKDHomeSchooler--I'm sorry about your knees! I looked briefly at the websites and I didn't see anything (in the quick look) that stood out negatively. Since you want to look into Aikido to continue with the self defense, the biggest type of red flags would be if they turned out to be the very soft-barely-touch-you-and-the-other-person-automatically-falls-down-type. I believe that Jenna correctly reffers to that as "Erroneous Aikido" here http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80919 
It's one thing if they go down easy for beginners as they're helping you get the feel of the technique, but if the high ranks, who have been doing it for ages, fall down because you blow on them then...

That is very cool that they let you go to any of their schools to train. Definitely check it out and get an idea of the structure of the classes. 

If they let you jump right onto the mat, inform the sensei and anyone you partner with about your knee. We always start class in a kneeling situation, but my sensei and one of my fellow students (he came from 40+ years in TKD) both have busted up knees. My sensei sits kneeling on his good leg with the other stretched out to the side while the other guy sits crosslegged or legs splayed out. 

Also, pay attention if the ukemi (rolling/falling) practice starts to hurt your knee.

Since you practice TKD and already know how to turn/pivot for kicks, etc. this might not be new but...I'm not sure how they do it in that class, but if you practice stances, turns (tenkans), or do bokken work (wooden practice sword) with turns/pivots--_make sure you turn your foot all the way to pivot on that instead of not turning your foot far enough thus twisting your knee!_ I noticed I was doing that myself and my knees were getting sore until I figured out I wasn't turning my foot enough. The same thing was happening to beginners until I pointed it out to them. 

I too, am a Christian (and former homeschooler from 4th grade--graduated high school) and since I've never had done any martial arts before, I was worried it might be "cultish". I agree with Ellen that the bowing to O' Sensei is just to show respect. In the Japanese culture they bow to each other in greeting so I think of it in the same way. If, while bowing in at the beginning of class, there is deep breathing exercises, I always use that time to clear my mind, relax, and say a short prayer. Like Ellen said, the dojo is a school to learn the martial art. I'm going to send you a private message about a cool Christian illustration that hit me a few years back. 

Ellen--Welcome to Martial Talk! Your story is truly inspiring! My mom started at 49 and trained with me for 8 years. I've been trying to talk her into coming back, but she feels too old and rickety. (She's younger than my sensei!) I'll have to tell her you're story!

You can send a private message by clicking on the person's user name and selecting the option "send a private message to___".

Robyn


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## dancingalone (Dec 16, 2009)

Honestly, aikido has a fair amount of work done from one's knees.  Please consider this as part of your investigation.  Below is a video of shikko walking, which is part of fundamental practice and warmup in most dojos.

[yt]zvqYWum5Vl4[/yt]


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## Tez3 (Dec 16, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Honestly, aikido has a fair amount of work done from one's knees. Please consider this as part of your investigation. Below is a video of shikko walking, which is part of fundamental practice and warmup in most dojos.
> 
> [yt]zvqYWum5Vl4[/yt]


 
That is so hard to do. My instructor tried to teach me Judo's Kime No kata which had that 'knee walk' in it, impossible for me unless done very, very slowly.


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## Aikikitty (Dec 16, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Honestly, aikido has a fair amount of work done from one's knees. Please consider this as part of your investigation. Below is a video of shikko walking, which is part of fundamental practice and warmup in most dojos.
> 
> [yt]zvqYWum5Vl4[/yt]


 
Oh goodness!  I completely forgot about shikko!  We haven't done that in class in ages!  The reason being is that most of the members of my class are older and some have knee trouble so we very rarely do shikko or the kneeling techniques anymore.  I've heard of other schools that practice it a lot.


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## dancingalone (Dec 16, 2009)

The Opal Dragon said:


> Oh goodness!  I completely forgot about shikko!  We haven't done that in class in ages!  The reason being is that most of the members of my class are older and some have knee trouble so we very rarely do shikko or the kneeling techniques anymore.  I've heard of other schools that practice it a lot.




I train Aikikai style and I believe those Plano dojos TKDHomeschooler posted are as well.  Shikko practice is a regular part of the warm up in my school.


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## MA-Caver (Dec 16, 2009)

My gf (soon to be fiancee' ... if I can ever afford the ring  ) and I have discussed studying a MA together and I was very pleased to find she really likes Aikido (watching it)... I think it would be good for her because she does not have a lot of strength (she *is* strong but...), as for me I have strength but little power in my punches... plus I really don't like the idea of someone grabbing me when I don't want them to. Some arts you do allow the person to grab you then you do the techniques. So this art looks like it would be a good choice for both of us... but we are still looking around for other arts to get into. 
Still finding one will depend upon where the two of us finally decide to settle. Currently we're in a LDR and once we get married then we need to pick a spot. 
When we settle MT will be the forum of choice to inqiure about which schools and which teachers will be suitable for us.


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## Xue Sheng (Dec 16, 2009)

TKDHomeSchooler said:


> *Edit: I need to add that I don't want any religious aspect of any martial art I study. I am set with my Christian beleifs, so no chi or Eastern mysticism for me. I just want health and skill development.


 
chi (qi) is energy that is all... not mysticism..not religion just energy. 

Qi Basics

Strong Qi you are healthy

Weak Qi you are sick

No Qi you are dead


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## TKDHomeSchooler (Dec 16, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Honestly, aikido has a fair amount of work done from one's knees.  Please consider this as part of your investigation.  Below is a video of shikko walking, which is part of fundamental practice and warmup in most dojos.
> 
> [yt]zvqYWum5Vl4[/yt]



Dang, that hurt just watching it.  My last TKD belt test was videoed, I wish my Wife had videoed when I got up form a kneeling position, it looked very funny being that I am only 36.

Thanks all for the great insight and suggestions/tips.  I have also considered Hapkido, I have a sick enjoyment of sparring and hitting someone else :rofl:, as well as when I get hit.  I tend to find that I learn more by trying to avoid another side kick to the solar plexus.


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## dancingalone (Dec 16, 2009)

TKDHomeSchooler said:


> Dang, that hurt just watching it.  My last TKD belt test was videoed, I wish my Wife had videoed when I got up form a kneeling position, it looked very funny being that I am only 36.
> 
> Thanks all for the great insight and suggestions/tips.  I have also considered Hapkido, I have a sick enjoyment of sparring and hitting someone else :rofl:, as well as when I get hit.  I tend to find that I learn more by trying to avoid another side kick to the solar plexus.



Sounds like you might like a striking style that doesn't emphasize deep stances or extensive kicking.  Some Okinawan karate styles fit this description.  Maybe a modern CQB system or a non-kickboxing Krav Maga school would suit too.


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