# Balintawak



## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 6, 2003)

How many of us on MT train in Balintawak and with whom?


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 6, 2003)

I do, with Manong (GM) Ted Buot (1st Generation student of Anciong Bacon).


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 6, 2003)

did our lil talk get you curious as who else trains in Balintawak?  i'm curious too...

i do... training with Bob Silver Tabimina (1st generation student Jose Villasin, Teofilo Velez, Timoteo Maranga, Anciong Bacon, and Ciriaco Cañete).


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 6, 2003)

I train with Manong (GM) Ted Buot


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## krys (Jul 6, 2003)

Hello there,

Do some of you have some information on the martial art of Tat Kun Tou? There is another variant called Gokosha.
GM A.  Bacon of Balintawak was involved in it.
I wonder if these arts are still taught (have some doubts with Gokosha). Is there a place in Manila where I could see them or buy some tapes?

Thanks,
mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 6, 2003)

i'd like to know too!


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> *Hello there,
> 
> Do some of you have some information on the martial art of Tat Kun Tou?  *



To my knowledge this was taght by a student of Anciong named JoGo (sp). He was half Filipino and half Chinese. The Tat Kun Tao came from Chinese influences. One of his students live in Toronto. His name is Robert Cinco (sp). This is all the ifno I have.

:asian:


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## krys (Jul 6, 2003)

Hello xSweetFacadexX:
where you already introduced to the empty hands of Balintawak?

I heard Balintawak has a formal empty hand system, is it a form of Combat Judo?
At what stage is empty hands fighting taught? 



Tat Kun  Tou is a Tsinoy martial art that was developped by one of A. Bacon's students, 
i.e. "Kung Fu" with large Balintawak influence.
Gokosha is a later version of the art, I think reserved for advanced students.
Few learned it. There may be some information in the Rapid journal but I cannot buy it here.

Did you already learn the empty hands of Balintawak?



Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 6, 2003)

hey krys,

learned empty hand of mano-mano arnis. none yet for balintawak. Silver says that we'll get around to it soon since i'm a fast learner. he's away for a week, so no lessons for a week   thanx for the recommendation of him!  

who do u train under, btw?


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## krys (Jul 6, 2003)

Hello xX.... (too long to spell with the i give up),

You never sleep (I guess it's 4.5 a.m. in Manila now)... 

Actually I learn filipino Silat an Cinco Teros  Arnis and some other arts (among other Judo Combat) respectively with a GM and a Master when I am in Quezon City. I can't give you their names here but if you are interested I'll ask them.....

Cinco Teros has no formal empty hand training, filipino Silat has both (but you start with empty hands...).

When I'm  in France I train with a friend-sparing partner, he shows me Lightning Scientific Arnis and I teach him some Silat and Escrima Basilan style....

Here in Scotland I learn Wing Chun and practice Silat-Arnis alone....


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## Wingman (Jul 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> *Hello there,
> 
> Do some of you have some information on the martial art of Tat Kun Tou? There is another variant called Gokosha.
> ...



Tat Kun Tou & Gokosha was developed by the late Jose Go (Joe Go for short). Tat means intercepting, Kun means fist, Tou means way. Gokosha means "Go family boxing". Tat Kun Tou has a club in Cebu. Very few people learned Gokosha because it was reserved for advanced students.


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## progressivetactics (Jul 6, 2003)

I was considering looking into this art a bit....IS anyone familiar with Mr Hatch (brian, I believe) from the Canton Michigan Area?


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## progressivetactics (Jul 6, 2003)

or it could be David Hatch.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *or it could be David Hatch. *



David Hatch is the name of the person you are looking for.

There is also others on this board who train in Southfield with Manong Ted Buot. Mr Hatches Teacher.

Rocky Paswik
Jim Power
Myself (Rich Parsons)
Paul Janulis

and Tim Harman out in NY who travels in one weekend a month to get his class time in.

There are others who train in this art in southest Michigan as well, just no members of this board.

Contact David Hatch and talk to him.
:asian:


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## norshadow1 (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> *Hello there,
> 
> Do some of you have some information on the martial art of Tat Kun Tou? There is another variant called Gokosha.
> ...



Look up Dr. Go. He founded Tat Kun Tao, and if I'm not mistaken lives in or near Cebu city. 

Lamont


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by krys _
> *Hello xX.... (too long to spell with the i give up),
> 
> You never sleep (I guess it's 4.5 a.m. in Manila now)...
> ...



oh i sleep... just screwed up sleeping habits. lol. i must've went to sleep when you posted.

i'm interested in the GMs that you train with.. having many choices comforts me. i hope to up my training schedule soon to training in 2 arts or instructors a week..

perhaps when you come to QC again and when i deem myself competent enough... we could train a bit together.


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## krys (Jul 7, 2003)

> i'm interested in the GMs that you train with.. having many choices comforts me. i hope to up my training schedule soon to training in 2 arts or instructors a week..



Actually there is only one silat-escrima GM but he is a very good one. I don't know if my Arnis teacher is a GM, anyway he is a master. There are other  head instructors of different interesting styles who learn with my GM occasionaly.
I wil contact them, ask their permission, and send you details by e-mail.
Anyway QC is a very good place to train fmas, many good peoples can be found there.....


What is your previous experience in martial arts?




> perhaps when you come to QC again and when i deem myself competent enough... we could train a bit together.



Why not if you are in QC? I will be back in 5 weeks.... train hard.....


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 7, 2003)

I just began my training with Manong Ted Buot and consider myself to be the baby student of Balintawak.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 7, 2003)

this may be a very stupid question... but i'm just curious... Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons, and Renegade all say that they are training with Manong Ted Buot... but Renegade is in Buffalo, Parsons is in Michigan, and Anderson is in Oregon...

now, i know i haven't been in the US in 3 months... but last time i checked, all 3 locations are very far away from each other. buffalo not so far from michigan, but still a long drive...

could someone please explain to me how all 3 of you are training with the same person? or is it that 2 of you aren't training with him anymore?

sorry if this seems like a silly question


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## krys (Jul 7, 2003)

> Tat Kun Tou & Gokosha was developed by the late Jose Go (Joe Go for short). Tat means intercepting, Kun means fist, Tou means way. Gokosha means "Go family boxing". Tat Kun Tou has a club in Cebu. Very few people learned Gokosha because it was reserved for advanced students.





> Look up Dr. Go. He founded Tat Kun Tao, and if I'm not mistaken lives in or near Cebu city.



I won't be able to go to Cebu city that soon....
Do you know if it is also taught in Manila or if there are some tapes around? 

Thanks,
Christian.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.


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## progressivetactics (Jul 7, 2003)

where do you train in southfield?


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *this may be a very stupid question... but i'm just curious... Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons, and Renegade all say that they are training with Manong Ted Buot... but Renegade is in Buffalo, Parsons is in Michigan, and Anderson is in Oregon...
> 
> now, i know i haven't been in the US in 3 months... but last time i checked, all 3 locations are very far away from each other. buffalo not so far from michigan, but still a long drive...
> ...



XxSweetFacadexX ,

If I may reply for the others, and I am sure they will reply for themselves if there is a problem.

I train privately (* Manong (GM) Ted Buot only does privates or semi-privates *) 1 hour a week. I practice with at least two of is other students for an hour or so on Wednesay and again for about 2 hours on Sunday. Some of those that I trian with only show up on Sunday or Wednesday. This is my trianing schedule.

Renegade AKA Tim Hartman drives in from Buffalo once a month and does his time. He trains between 3 to 4 hours broken up through the day and then drives home (* Unless there is another event local and then he stays. *)

Dan Anderson, has trained with Manong (GM) Ted Buot and I am not sure of his total hour nor his schedule (* Nor is it my place to keep track  *), and, yes he is on he west coast. I do know that many times in the last year or so, when Dan has been on the East Coast or in NY he stops by and does his own events in the Detroit MI and Windsor CA Area(s). He stays and trains with Jaye Spiro another Student of Manong Ted Buot.  Jaye is also a student of a form of Japanese Karate. I will not list the name and be wrong. I know Super Dan Anderson does his Karate Seminars as I stated.

I hope this helps, and I am sure the other two will reply and give more information in the areas I did not clarify completly.

:asian: 


BTW: With whom do you train? Just curious?  Thank You


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by progressivetactics _
> *where do you train in southfield? *



BB,

I train in Southfield at the private home of my instructor.

You have to be invited, or brought as a friend of someone already training.

Hence, my recomendation, that if you already know David Hatch or Paul Janulis to contact them. I do hope to met both you and Adam and Seigi Soon though 



:asian:


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 7, 2003)

well that makes more sense. thanks for clearing that up for me.  

i train weekly with with Bob Silver Tabimina (1st generation student Jose Villasin, Teofilo Velez, Timoteo Maranga, Anciong Bacon, and Ciriaco Cañete).


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## progressivetactics (Jul 7, 2003)

thanks rich. We will meet at some event, soon, i'm sure of it.

Mr. Hatch, seemed like a very nice guy, and I watched some of his stuff.  He seemed pretty well informed and capable. I was just un-sure of his connections, current status, etc.....Just double checking.


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## Cruentus (Jul 7, 2003)

I train w/ Manong Ted Buot.

To add to Rich's answer to xXsweetfacedexX,

People come from all around to train with Manong Ted because he is very good, and it is well worth the travel.

I just feel blessed that he is close by me.

Another note:

Not all Balintawak is the same. I garauntee that if you put two people w/ different instructors in the same room, they will not know the same material!

 

Paul Janulis


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *but i'm just curious...say that they are training with Manong Ted Buot... but Renegade is in Buffalo, Parsons is in Michigan, and Anderson is in Oregon...
> 
> now, i know i haven't been in the US in 3 months... but last time i checked, all 3 locations are very far away from each other. sorry if this seems like a silly question  *



Not a silly question at all.  I live way in the hell away from Manong Ted so my lessons are further in between than the others.  I get to Detroit when I can but I don't travel as much as Renegade nor do I live anywhere as near.  I am the baby of the balintawak crew and am likely to stay that way unless I win the lottery.  Rich delineated everyone's schedule in an above post.  Lucky ducks who get to train with him once a week.  Oh well, them's the breaks.  

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## pesilat (Jul 7, 2003)

I have a fair amount of training in the Taboada branch of Balintawak but am not a formal student.

Mike


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## Toasty (Jul 7, 2003)

I have been training in Balintawak with Manong Ted Buot for 3 years now (usually 2-3 times a week.)
After starting with him I stopped the other arts I was training in for about a year to fully absorb the intricasies, and to this day only do Balintawak & Muay Thai.

see ya 
Rob P.

p.s. Pesilat, please e-mail me privately @ Toastyrp@aol.com - I have question regarding Silat & Bersilat I think you can help me with, thanks.


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## Toasty (Jul 7, 2003)

Norshadow, 
unfortunatly Jose Go (affectionatly known as Jo Go), founder of Tat Kun Tao, passed away due to cancer some time ago. See the 
www.cebueskrima.s5.com site for more details.

my best to you
Rob


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *now, i know i haven't been in the US in 3 months... but last time i checked, all 3 locations are very far away from each other. buffalo not so far from michigan, but still a long drive...
> 
> could someone please explain to me how all 3 of you are training with the same person? or is it that 2 of you aren't training with him anymore? *



Here is how the Renegade (Datu Tim Hartman) does it. This month of July is my 3 year anniversary. 

My fisrt year I would get up once a month at 5:15am and drive to Detroit and arrive at 10:00 am for my morning class which would last till noon. I would take a 2 hour lunch and do my second class from 2:00 pm till 4:00 pm. Then I would drive back to Buffalo and would arrive home between 10pm - midnight based on how many stops I did.

My second year I would get up once a month at 5:15am and drive to Detroit and arrive at 10:00 am for my morning class which would last till noon. I would take a 2 hour lunch and do my second class from 2:00 pm till 3:00 pm. Then I would drive back to Buffalo and would arrive home between 10pm - midnight based on how many stops I did.

My third year I would get up once a month at 6:00am and drive to Detroit and arrive at 11:00 am for my morning class which would last till 1:00pm. Then I would drive back to Buffalo and would arrive home between 8pm - 11pm based on how many stops I did.

A lot of hassle, but well worth the investment in time.


:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Toasty _
> *I have been training in Balintawak with Manong Ted Buot for 3 years now (usually 2-3 times a week.)
> After starting with him I stopped the other arts I was training in for about a year to fully absorb the intricasies, and to this day only do Balintawak & Muay Thai.
> 
> ...



Rob,

My Apologies, forthe missing of you on the list it was not on purpose.  Always feel free to correct me when I make a mistake like that or on any part of the history 

Thanks
:asian:


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Renegade _
> *
> A lot of hassle, but well worth the investment in time.
> 
> ...



Ditto.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Cruentus (Jul 7, 2003)

Rob kicks @$$!


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## Toasty (Jul 8, 2003)

Hiya Rich -
 I was just messing around with you - but I couldnt get those crazy smiley faces to input into my message. And seeing how I post here so often ;O) - how could ya miss me...   :erg: :lol: 

Whoops, I think i figured out how to work those smileys...

Hey Paul, hows it goin? 
One of these days when I get slower at work I 'm gonna come down to the gym so we can play around a bit (you do know I work in Rochester Hills?)

Wha's up Tim - damn man, that is one heck of a driving schedule - happy 3 year anniversary in Balintawak (its my 3rd year annv. as well, as of July 1) 

see ya 
Rob


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## Datu Tim Hartman (Jul 8, 2003)

:asian:


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## Cruentus (Jul 8, 2003)

> Hey Paul, hows it goin?
> One of these days when I get slower at work I 'm gonna come down to the gym so we can play around a bit (you do know I work in Rochester Hills?)



You work in Rochester Hills, and you haven't come down to visit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:soapbox: 


Just kidding. The fact is I closed my class for 2 1/2 months; I also relocated and I am just getting rollin' again. So ya better give me a ring first!


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## Cruentus (Jul 8, 2003)

I might add....

where do you work, anyways?


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## Rocky (Jul 10, 2003)

I started my Balintawak training in Moncol, and Maranga's pre grouped version under Gm Presas in 1981, in 1982 Remy introduced me to GM Buot, I trained with him a couple of times a week for the first 5 or 6 years , then once a week for a couple of years. I haven't trainined with him for about 2 years now, I primarilly teach Cuentada De mano now  which is my own version of the Balintawak methods, along with Karate, Catch as Catch Can and various other arts. It resembles the Grouped versions of Balintawak. I still teach Anciong's original Balintawak, but I only teach it one on one the way Gm Buot does it!!

  I teach what I call progressive Modern Arnis as my commercial art, it is more self defense related, I make know claims to make you an Eskrimador when I teach Progressive Modern Arnis. I leave that to Cuentada De mano.


Rocky


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## Cruentus (Jul 10, 2003)

You'll be demonstrating some of this at the symposium soon?

I hope to see you there!

Regards,

Paul Janulis


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## Rocky (Jul 10, 2003)

Actually Paul, if you want to see some of it give me a call. I am currently out of commisson, I have a date with an ortopedic surgean, my left wrist has been broke a couple of times, but only set once, now I am paying for it. I also have a couple of blood clots that have to be removed from my eyes, to many black eyes. If you play hard it will come back at you.

Rocky


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rocky _
> *Actually Paul, if you want to see some of it give me a call. I am currently out of commisson, I have a date with an ortopedic surgean, my left wrist has been broke a couple of times, but only set once, now I am paying for it. I also have a couple of blood clots that have to be removed from my eyes, to many black eyes. If you play hard it will come back at you.
> 
> Rocky *



Rocky, 

I am sorry to hear about your wrist and eyes.

I hope it all works out for you.

Respectfully
:asian:


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## Rocky (Jul 10, 2003)

Sorry Paul I meant to type orthoscopic (sp) not orthopedic my bad!!

Realy I is edgumicated!!!

Rocky


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## Cruentus (Jul 10, 2003)

Wow man, That sucks!

Well, I hope you have a speedy recovery.

We'll touch base later on!


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 10, 2003)

Take care and heal fast, Rock.  We'll miss you in Buffalo.

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *did our lil talk get you curious as who else trains in Balintawak?  i'm curious too...
> 
> i do... training with Bob Silver Tabimina (1st generation student Jose Villasin, Teofilo Velez, Timoteo Maranga, Anciong Bacon, and Ciriaco Cañete). *



XxSweetFacadexX,


Do you have a shorter name I may call you by? Please Call me Rich. 

I am not questioning this in a bad way. I am asking this question ot gain knowledge, and hope you may be able to share it with us.

Mr Tabimina trained with all those you listed.

With whom did he start? With whom did he train with next and is there a reason why?

I know that Villasin, Velez, Maranga were all students under Anciong Bacon.

I always thought Ciriaco Canete was Doces Pares, it is hard not to know about either of the two arts if you live in or near Cebu. Did Tabimina train with Canete before or after his training with Bacon?


I like to know these types of stories. It you do not wish to psot them here or your instructor does not wish for them to be here either I understand. I would kindly ask for their e-mail address so I may converse with them in private.

I trained with GM Remy Presas of Modern Arnis. He trained with is Grandfather and also with Moncol and then Maranga and then as well with Bacon. I also currently Train as I stated with Manong Ted Buot who trained and taught with Anciong Bacon in Cebu. 

Thank you for your time and effort.
:asian:


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## pesilat (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *I always thought Ciriaco Canete was Doces Pares, it is hard not to know about either of the two arts if you live in or near Cebu. Did Tabimina train with Canete before or after his training with Bacon?*



The Canetes are Doce Pares. But Bacon and the Canete brothers all trained under Saavedra in the pre-Doce Pares days. There are similarities between the DP and the Balintawak, but there are differences, too.

I'd assume that what is meant is that Tabimina trained with all of those people but considers himself a Balintawak man because that's where the bulk of his training is from.

Am I on the right track, XxSFxX (how's that for a shortened version, Rich  )?


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 11, 2003)

nice shortening of my name! i like.

actually pesilat, that is quite accurate. from what i'm told... his father wanted to make sure he could defend himself... so his father looked and looked and found bacon and canete. but the bulk of his training is balintawak.

i could ask him for more details at my next lesson on sunday.. he just came back from mindinao...


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 11, 2003)

oh rich! what result did u get at my "get fuzzy" quiz?


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *nice shortening of my name! i like.
> 
> actually pesilat, that is quite accurate. from what i'm told... his father wanted to make sure he could defend himself... so his father looked and looked and found bacon and canete. but the bulk of his training is balintawak.
> ...



XxSFxX,

Please ask. I already know of the Saavedra Connection between the two arts and styles. Thank You Mike for the information.

As to the Get Fuzzy Quiz, do not laugh to hard, or I wil send my ninja Cat Tiana After You  . I was the Weasel from Next Door.


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## pesilat (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *XxSFxX,
> 
> Please ask. I already know of the Saavedra Connection between the two arts and styles. Thank You Mike for the information.
> ...



OK ... what the heck is this "Get Fuzzy Quiz"?

Mike


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 11, 2003)

get fuzzy quiz... it's based on the comic "Get Fuzzy" which i love but haven't read since i've been in the philippines... i made the quiz and put it on my website. for now, it's my only comical quiz.

if you wanna take it... go to:
www.intangiblereverie.com

rich... now that's an interesting result... not many people get the weasal.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *get fuzzy quiz... it's based on the comic "Get Fuzzy" which i love but haven't read since i've been in the philippines... i made the quiz and put it on my website. for now, it's my only comical quiz.
> 
> if you wanna take it... go to:
> ...




SF,

What did you get ?

So, what does the Weasel mean since you set up the quiz? 



Does anyone else have information on their Balintwak heritage. Like I said I want to learn as much as I can.

Thanks
:asian:


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 11, 2003)

balintawak started in cebu as a fighting/self-defense form... most say that it's named after a street in cebu... that's about all i know about it.

i know there's a book out there completely explains balintawak...

::makes note to find the book again:::lookie: 

as for the weasel in the quiz.. i thought he was a ferret? he's the calculating arch enemy who's always one step head... and seems to want to either rule the world or just make bucky's life hell.  

what does he mean? The Ferret. that pet that's next door. clever and quick in your ways as you always get someone else to take the blame. i like. something tells me, tho, that you're even scarier than Bucky.

when i first took the quiz myself, i got Bucky... now i keep getting Joe the best friend.


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## pesilat (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *balintawak started in cebu as a fighting/self-defense form... most say that it's named after a street in cebu... that's about all i know about it.*



Yup. "Balintawak" either means "cry of freedom" or it was a battle cry used by freedom fighters (never was real clear on which was the case). After splitting from Saavedra's group (not sure what prompted the split), GM Bacon started teaching in the yard behind a watch shop owned by a friend of his. The watch shop was on "Balintawak Street" and Bacon thought it a fitting name.

Mike


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## arnisador (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *it's based on the comic "Get Fuzzy" which i love but haven't read since i've been in the philippines *



Why not?

Get Fuzzy.


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *balintawak started in cebu as a fighting/self-defense form... most say that it's named after a street in cebu... that's about all i know about it.
> 
> i know there's a book out there completely explains balintawak...
> ...




SF,

I apologize, like I said I have trained with Manong Ted Buot in Balintawak since 1998. Yes, you are correct in the fact that the club was on Balintawak Street.  I have some history and information. I like to hear more always. Which is why I asked the questions of you for your instructor. 

I did this on for may reasons. I wanted you to feel comfortable and free to post here and to answer questions. As a Moderator it is our responsibility to encourage our members and our new members even more. I also asked the questions because I am honestly interested in hearing what your instructor has to say.

And I am really curious about Balintwak and all of our Family and I like to understand and learn from everyone.

Please extend my respects to your insturctor, as well as to yourself.

Thank You and I am waiting very patiently for you to reply after Sunday.



> _Originally posted by pesilat _
> *
> Yup. "Balintawak" either means "cry of freedom" or it was a battle cry used by freedom fighters (never was real clear on which was the case). After splitting from Saavedra's group (not sure what prompted the split), GM Bacon started teaching in the yard behind a watch shop owned by a friend of his. The watch shop was on "Balintawak Street" and Bacon thought it a fitting name.
> 
> ...



Mike,

Balintwak has many meanings. It is a Province, I believe on Luzon. It was a place of great atrocities during the Japanese Invasion during World War II. Just Like Baaton was a place of great pride for the PI Nationals stood their ground against the Japanese.

Now during the war, it was a Freedon Cry and was also used in battle, to represent the great courage and strength of those that had died in that great battle.

After the war, the name of Balintwak was used on many streets, just like most cities, in the USA, have a Martin Luther King street.

The club was in the Back Room of a Watch Repair Shop on Balintwak Street. The Club's Names was "The Self-Defense Club". It became known as "The Self Defense Club on Balintawk Street". As people would talk they would refer to it as "that Club on Balintawak Street". Then some people started saying "oh you do that Balintawak Street Self Defense" Then it became know as "Balintawak". As Many Cultures do, the shorten things for simplicity in dealing with names. This is why I find it difficult to believe that some think that Balintawak as the name of an art was around before WWII. The techniques and moves and timing were all their, as evidence by GM Bacon and the Saavedra's before the War. The Saavedra's taught Stick and Dagger. Anciong Bacon was asked/told no to use his training dagger during his training since he would constantly poke people with it. Some would say the Stick only expression would be Anciong Bacon's personal expresion of the Saavadra's Art. I still think it is good to give credit to the Saavedra's for their contribution to the FMA's. :asian:


As to GM Anciong Bacon leaving the Doces Pares after WWII. He left for personal reasons and simple politics between himself and the Canetes. Both Anciong Bacong and Ted Buot were and are good friends with the Canetes. Any and all "Hard Feelings" were imagined from their students or their students' students.



Like I said before, Good information everyone. I am just looking to meet new people and to also maybe even learn more. Thank you all very much for this conversation.

:asian:


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by XxSweetFacadexX _
> *. . .
> as for the weasel in the quiz.. i thought he was a ferret? he's the calculating arch enemy who's always one step head... and seems to want to either rule the world or just make bucky's life hell.
> 
> ...




Fungo the Ferret 

Yes he is a Ferret. Weasel is an old Frat (Non GreeK) Term my friends and I used back in our college days, and some how it also fit here. 

Bucky is cool, yet Joe is the Stable Guy ( Gal in this case ) that is the straight man to launch many of the punch lines off of .

I do have another wierd questions. You had a picture of you and a friend, and her leg seemed to be bandaged? Did she get this wound during her training?

:asian:


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Parsons _
> *I do have another wierd questions. You had a picture of you and a friend, and her leg seemed to be bandaged? Did she get this wound during her training?
> 
> :asian: *



hahaha... that was taken during the first month when i got to college. that was my roomie lisa. it was blazing hot out for the whole week... hitting up to 100 degrees and we have no AC... i chose to go to plattsburgh because it was cold. grr.. so her friend invited us both to go cliff jumping... you jump off a cliff into a lake or some body of water. i was gonna go but her friend noticed i was working on a paper for globalism class... so he said he will not let me come this time cuz he didn't want me to start slacking. so fine. i worked on my paper. lisa came back to the room that nite limping and not being able to sit. see, she didn't land right on the water. she jumped from 25 ft to the water and landed butt first and flat... got a huge bruise that i swear started changing colors in front of my eyes.

the next two weeks whenever lisa wasn't doing something... we all said she was "icing her ***". :rofl: 

aye.. college days in the US.


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## K Williams (Jul 13, 2003)

I've only attended one Balintawak seminar by GM Taboada in upstate NY...


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by K Williams _
> *I've only attended one Balintawak seminar by GM Taboada in upstate NY... *




How did you enjoy this seminar?

:asian:


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## K Williams (Jul 14, 2003)

I liked it a lot. I learned some different ways to strike with a stick, and the technique of tapping your body with the stick to make sure it's still in your hand. You might get hit and have your hand go numb, which has happened to me a few times in sparring(getting hit to the inside of the forearm did this to me...must have hit a nerve or something).


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## XxSweetFacadexX (Jul 14, 2003)

oops... forgot to ask Bob about the details of his training... but, he did say that he had so many instructors for a reason... so that he would be very versatile... (please don't shoot me for forgetting! i'll ask friday!)

you know... i had something else to post.. but i forgot.. so forgetful... :shrug:


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## dreamthief (Jul 14, 2003)

well, if you're in the TO area @ sweetfacade, you can show me some basics. i've come to a realization that at the very least, it could augment my search for new ways to improve upon my lackluster health.


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## Cuentada (Jul 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by dreamthief _
> *well, if you're in the TO area @ sweetfacade, you can show me some basics. i've come to a realization that at the very least, it could augment my search for new ways to improve upon my lackluster health. *



check out robert cinco (my previous teacher) of balintawak. his teacher was "JoGo" Milan, one of GM Bacon's top students.

416-503-1782

Paolo


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## san miguel eskrima (Jul 20, 2003)

"This was planned so that when time came to rise and fight back against the Japanese Forces we are ready for the materials. At the house of DELFIN LOPEZ in Mambaling, Dodong Abellana, transmitted the desire in the presence of the homeowner DELFIN LOPEZ  and many others that we confided upon. And we brought to our consideration the possibility of the guerilla in the near future, to carry on the moves was secretly done."


The book also contains information on the exploits of DORING SAAVEDRA and his execution during the japanese occupation. I have met the author of the book. He is 96 years old(a MAESTRO OF ESGRIMA). Hopefully, he is still with us when I visit him again next year. FYI, someone has over 20 hrs of footage of GM Bacon.


Sinugdanan ug Kataposan, Mabuhay,


Ramon Rubia


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by san miguel eskrima _
> *"This was planned so that when time came to rise and fight back against the Japanese Forces we are ready for the materials. At the house of DELFIN LOPEZ in Mambaling, Dodong Abellana, transmitted the desire in the presence of the homeowner DELFIN LOPEZ  and many others that we confided upon. And we brought to our consideration the possibility of the guerilla in the near future, to carry on the moves was secretly done."
> 
> 
> ...



Ramon,

How are you?

I am quite interested in this unbulsihed book. Are there any copies in the states that someone might be able to read in the owners presence? Also I would assume the the footage would be on an older format of tape. Has any looked into getting it moved to VHS? I am not looking for someone to take advantage of the owner of these tapes, only to see that they can be preserved and viewed.

Thank You for your Information.
:asian:


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## Dan Anderson (Jul 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by san miguel eskrima _
> *The book also contains information on the exploits of DORING SAAVEDRA and his execution during the japanese occupation. I have met the author of the book. He is 96 years old(a MAESTRO OF ESGRIMA). Hopefully, he is still with us when I visit him again next year. FYI, someone has over 20 hrs of footage of GM Bacon.
> 
> 
> ...



Whoa!  Great history with both the book and footage on Anciong Bacon.  I'd be *very* interested in these!

Yours,
Dan Anderson


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## san miguel eskrima (Jul 21, 2003)

Unfortunatley, the book is only located in Cebu. I think it would be an investment of time to visit the Philippines especially in Cebu. Majority of the people who still has ties to the information we seek are getting old and not passing it on to the next generation. I am not saying all of them, but majority of them. That is from my personal experience. When I complete the webiste on San Miguel Eskrima, I will share some insight on hard to get information regarding Cebuano Eskrima. 

All I can say about the footage of GM Bacon is that the person has relocated to Mindanao. In my future venture, assuming that the person who knows the information has not passed on also. I will try to get my hands on it.

FYI, For those who are in the Original Balintawak lineage (Nong Ted Buot, Arturo Sanchez, Sergio Arcel,etc..) I beleive they practice in "Tabo Sa Banay in Gaisano South".

Sinugdanan ug Kataposan, Mabuhay,


Ramon Rubia--Magtutudlo
San Miguel Eskrima, USA
Doce Pares Intenational, California Chapter


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