# Is taekwondo very common in the UK?



## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 2, 2015)

I found quiet a lot taekwondo clubs over here, but I am not sure all taekwondo clubs are as sparring oriented as the one I am learning in.

Question: Is taekwondo very common in the UK? So am I able to find an other dojo which trains a lot of sparring and kicking pads and sandbags less katas ? Or are the most taekwondo-schools very traditional, kata oriented.


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## Tez3 (Aug 2, 2015)

Yes, TKD is very common over here but tend not to use Japanese terms like 'dojo' and 'kata' 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'sandbags less katas' though, the only thing we use sandbags for is in times of flood.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 2, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> Yes, TKD is very common over here but tend not to use Japanese terms like 'dojo' and 'kata'
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by 'sandbags less katas' though, the only thing we use sandbags for is in times of flood.



Hi, thanks for the answer.

Sorry, but I only know the Japanese terms  Coming from Karate.

What I mean with sandbags is simply kick and punch training on sandbags but LESS kata-walking instead ( katas-forms ). I was in a Karate school, which literally was walking up and down the dojo all day long, we did sparring like once a week and punching and kicking on pads like once a month. This was the most boring Karate-school I've ever been to, Taekwondo seems much different, it seems much more challenging, much more contact, much more sparring and much more power-training on sandbags and pads. I love it.

Quiet shocking that you don't know boxing sandbags though. We use them a lot.


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## Tez3 (Aug 2, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Hi, thanks for the answer.
> 
> Sorry, but I only know the Japanese terms  Coming from Karate.
> 
> ...



We use kick bags not sandbags.

There are huge differences in karate training, that all you did was walk up and down in your class doesn't mean all classes are like that. The trick is to find a place you like, changing styles won't mean that you automatically find a place you like. I know karate places that are all sparring and some that do none, some that do a mixture and plenty of places that do sparring, pad work, kata and bunkai.
I think you will find that *good *TKD and *good *karate are the same in that they are a mixture of techniques, sparring and kata/patterns. Only the techniques will be performed differently, the intensity of training should be the same.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 2, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> We use kick bags not sandbags.
> 
> There are huge differences in karate training, that all you did was walk up and down in your class doesn't mean all classes are like that. The trick is to find a place you like, changing styles won't mean that you automatically find a place you like. I know karate places that are all sparring and some that do none, some that do a mixture and plenty of places that do sparring, pad work, kata and bunkai.
> I think you will find that *good *TKD and *good *karate are the same in that they are a mixture of techniques, sparring and kata/patterns. Only the techniques will be performed differently, the intensity of training should be the same.



I guess you are absolute right!

Well, I love working with my legs, so I guess taekwondo is more my cup of tea 

I do ITF Taekwondo by the way.


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## Jacky Zuki (Aug 3, 2015)

Like all Martial Arts in the UK, coverage tends to be regionally clustered. There is a rash of TKD clubs in the next city but nothing around here, whereas locally I can choose from three styles of Karate in five clubs. What does tend to happen is that the majority of clubs cluster around access to a high ranking individual so they tend to be similar in style and outlook. You might find that your local TKD clubs come from different parent organisations but it depends on the area and I found that clubs from the same parent tend to train in pretty much the same way.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Jacky Zuki said:


> Like all Martial Arts in the UK, coverage tends to be regionally clustered. There is a rash of TKD clubs in the next city but nothing around here, whereas locally I can choose from three styles of Karate in five clubs. What does tend to happen is that the majority of clubs cluster around access to a high ranking individual so they tend to be similar in style and outlook. You might find that your local TKD clubs come from different parent organisations but it depends on the area and I found that clubs from the same parent tend to train in pretty much the same way.




I see, I wish it would be ruled a bit more clear when it comes to training.

I mean let's say you practice Karate, you are used to have sparring/Kumite involved everyday, then you have to move to an other city for some reason and find Karate dojos doing katas all day long only. This is definitely the most frustrating thing in my imagination, practising a martial art for years and years, and just throwing away the hard training because there is no proper school around.

I love the UK and I don't want to say that my country is better, but when it comes to the structure of martial arts, it is much better organised. Karate has everywhere the same structure, same as all other martial arts. The training always involves EVERYTHING, sparring,katas and some Self-Defence. You can usually choose if you want to do Semi- or Full-contact in every martial arts club over there. ( Sure it would not make much sense to practice things like Muay-Thai in just semi-contact ). This is simply what I miss over here, there is no consistent order in martial arts, every club does what and how they want it, so some dojos kind of lose the whole focus about the actual martial art. Some martial art schools are not even able to tell you what exactly they are teaching


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## Tez3 (Aug 3, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> I see, I wish it would be ruled a bit more clear when it comes to training.
> 
> I mean let's say you practice Karate, you are used to have sparring/Kumite involved everyday, then you have to move to an other city for some reason and find Karate dojos doing katas all day long only. This is definitely the most frustrating thing in my imagination, practising a martial art for years and years, and just throwing away the hard training because there is no proper school around.
> 
> I love the UK and I don't want to say that my country is better, but when it comes to the structure of martial arts, it is much better organised. Karate has everywhere the same structure, same as all other martial arts. The training always involves EVERYTHING, sparring,katas and some Self-Defence. You can usually choose if you want to do Semi- or Full-contact in every martial arts club over there. ( Sure it would not make much sense to practice things like Muay-Thai in just semi-contact ). This is simply what I miss over here, there is no consistent order in martial arts, every club does what and how they want it, so some dojos kind of lose the whole focus about the actual martial art. Some martial art schools are not even able to tell you what exactly they are teaching




Yeah we know, the trains run on time in Germany and everyone stops at the give way signs on roads. I lived there for three years and the civil obedience was scary.

When you say 'karate' you realise that/'s the generic term for the style, that in fact there are many different 'types' of karate and each has it's way's of teaching, their own syllabus etc. We have a lot of choice here over what martial arts we can do, it's good that way, you find things that suit you. Wado Ryu suits me, Shotokan not so much, TKD not so much either but the choice is there and we hopefully find our martial arts niche. We don't like things to be uniform and under the same group of people. I think if you stay here you will have to live with it lol, that attitude informs everything here, we like individuality and even eccentricity.


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 3, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> love the UK and I don't want to say that my country is better, but when it comes to the structure of martial arts, it is much better organised. Karate has everywhere the same structure, same as all other martial arts.


Interesting. Is there some central authority that enforces this? How does it work for different styles of karate? Are you saying that Shotokan schools train the same as the Kyokushin schools train the same as the Isshin Ryu schools and so on? Or are you saying that all the Shotokan schools train the same as each other, all the Wado Ryu schools train the same as each other, all the Goju Ryu schools train the same as each other, etc?


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Interesting. Is there some central authority that enforces this? How does it work for different styles of karate? Are you saying that Shotokan schools train the same as the Kyokushin schools train the same as the Isshin Ryu schools and so on? Or are you saying that all the Shotokan schools train the same as each other, all the Wado Ryu schools train the same as each other, all the Goju Ryu schools train the same as each other, etc?



No., sure there are differences between the certain styles.

The trainers usually have to get licenses where they are tested at and also told how to educate. But it's typical for everything in Germany. Whatever you do, there are rules for it how exactly to do it. Germans don't like big change, everything has to be consistend.

I would advise you to do a travel through Germany and it's Karate clubs, you will see what I mean.


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 3, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> No., sure there are differences between the certain styles.
> 
> The trainers usually have to get licenses where they are tested at and also told how to educate. But it's typical for everything in Germany. Whatever you do, there are rules for it how exactly to do it. Germans don't like big change, everything has to be consistend.
> 
> I would advise you to do a travel through Germany and it's Karate clubs, you will see what I mean.


Licensed and tested by the government? Does that mean that some governmental bureau has standards written up for how each martial art is supposed to be taught and practiced? How do they handle new martial arts that they don't have standards for?

I find this fascinating. Do you know of any online source in English that explains how it all works?


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Licensed and tested by the government? Does that mean that some governmental bureau has standards written up for how each martial art is supposed to be taught and practiced? How do they handle new martial arts that they don't have standards for?
> 
> I find this fascinating. Do you know of any online source in English that explains how it all works?



No not by the government, the government has nothing to do with it. But there are certain organisations that control this. + it is a usual thing anyway, so even if somebody would create his own martial art, he would include the usual training parts in to his training. Sparring, full-contact,semi-contact.

No German would ever visit a martial arts school which does not even do sparring at least once a week. Which means, the most dojos/dojangs include it in their training anyway, to get students. + the companies who teach and license trainers, are also usually concentrate to cover up all aspects.

I don't have sources, since i've never wanted to become a trainer or was far enough to become one. I got this information from 20 years living in Germany and an 11 years martial art backround in many different martial art clubs.


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 3, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> No not by the government, the government has nothing to do with it. But there are certain organisations that control this. + it is a usual thing anyway,


Gotcha. So each martial art is controlled by a central organization that sets standards and certifies instructors? Do you not have many independent schools that are separate from the larger organizations?


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Gotcha. So each martial art is controlled by a central organization that sets standards and certifies instructors? Do you not have many independent schools that are separate from the larger organizations?



Let's say it like this, as far as I know we  kind of have independent schools, but even they are part of some sort of organisation, because a trainer is NOT allowed to teach and students are NOT allowed to train if they are not member of such organization. BUT even the miniority of smaller organizations, share exactly the same rules and teach the same essential parts of " How to train " to each trainer.

It's a bit like with a driving license, there are many different driving schools you can do your driving license, but at the end you have to sit the same test as everyone else and have to have at least a certain amount of driving hours at night and daytime, at bad weather + a certain amount of theoretical hours. It's exactly the same in the whole country. It's very similar if not the same with martial arts.

Sure Karate is not ruled like Boxing, but each martial art has it's " way to follow " if you know what I mean.

For example: If you are working out everyday in a KICKBOXING class, but you sadly have to move far away to the country-side for some reason, you can be 100% sure, that the kickboxing club you will find there, will also train like your club did it. Sparring everyday,techniques and more. While in the UK, it is not so sure what you are actually joining. You might train Karate and have some sparring everyday, but an other class does hardly do any sparring. And this is what I meant by, it is organized better in Germany. That's all.


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## Tez3 (Aug 3, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> And this is what I meant by, it is organized better in Germany. That's all.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> View attachment 19425



*cough* troll *cough*


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## Tez3 (Aug 3, 2015)

It would seem Stuttgart is the place to go for martial arts, a huge selection. Must be a rebel stronghold to have so many varied styles.
Best Martial Arts in Stuttgart Baden-W rttemberg Germany


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## tshadowchaser (Aug 3, 2015)

Just a friendly reminder to all this is a friendly forum, disagreements are fine but please be respectful of each other.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 3, 2015)

Tez3 said:


> It would seem Stuttgart is the place to go for martial arts, a huge selection. Must be a rebel stronghold to have so many varied styles.
> Best Martial Arts in Stuttgart Baden-W rttemberg Germany



Lol, I've never even said that there are not many different styles. I just said they all train after the same structure.

Do your reading before you are trying to troll my threads.

Troll.


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## Tez3 (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Lol, I've never even said that there are not many different styles. I just said they all train after the same structure.
> 
> Do your reading before you are trying to troll my threads.
> 
> Troll.




I think you forgot that I said I'd trained in Germany as have many of my martial arts students in different parts of the country.
Before accusing others of trolling you may want to consider your threads and the remarks you have addressed to people here. Telling people who are actually experts in their subject that what they write is BS is not really the best way to make friends here. Even taking into account that English is not your first language and I think possibly is your third and German is perhaps your second  there is little reason for you to be so bombastic in posting. I write plainly , I speak as I find as they do where I live, Yorkshire people are known for their plain speaking, it's not dressed up in flowery words and if you don't like it then I'm sorry but it's what it is.
GENUKI Yorkshire Folk Talk The Yorkshire character


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## Jacky Zuki (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Lol, I've never even said that there are not many different styles. I just said they all train after the same structure.



That isn't my experience of training in Wado Ryu in Germany from time to time, nor is it what I hear from German students visiting my own club. The DKV might run the show regarding gradings but individual training regimes can vary from club to club from what I have seen.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Jacky Zuki said:


> That isn't my experience of training in Wado Ryu in Germany from time to time, nor is it what I hear from German students visiting my own club. The DKV might run the show regarding gradings but individual training regimes can vary from club to club from what I have seen.



Then you must have been in special clubs. As I've already been saying, I lived in Germany for about 20 years, and in this time I have seen many many martial art clubs, the structure was always the same. They might vary a bit, but you will find a balance between sparring and traditional training in all clubs.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

I find the generalisations JohnnyEnglish has made about training in Germany in this thread to be incorrect.

I live in Germany, and even within the boundaries of the city where I live, nevermind the state or the country, I could name a list of Taekwondo and or other martial arts clubs with completely different focus points, syllabi and methods of teaching.

You can find whatever you want, just like you can in the UK.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I find the generalisations JohnnyEnglish has made about training in Germany in this thread to be incorrect.
> 
> I live in Germany, and even within the boundaries of the city where I live, nevermind the state or the country, I could name a list of Taekwondo and or other martial arts clubs with completely different focus points, syllabi and methods of teaching.
> 
> You can find whatever you want, just like you can in the UK.



What county do you live in ?


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> What county do you live in ?



It doesn't matter, it is the same in every area. It is easy enough to find what you are looking for, unless what you are looking for is good Hapkido :/


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> It doesn't matter, it is the same in every area. It is easy enough to find what you are looking for, unless what you are looking for is good Hapkido :/



It does matter, because where I lived and also in some other parts in Germany, I always found what I was looking for since all clubs I know had a good balance between sparring and tradition. For example, I've never seen a Karate club in Germany, that does NOT practice any sparring, all of these clubs had sparring involved. Same way around, I've never seen a Shotokan Style Karate club which does not practice the traditional part of this martial art.

As I've already been saying, I lived in Germany for about 20 years, and by now nearly 4 years in the UK, I think I am in the position to make such comparisons. It's a fact that this is a strong difference between finding martial art clubs in Germany and finding martial art clubs in the UK. Why would I lie about it ?


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> It does matter, because where I lived and also in some other parts in Germany, I always found what I was looking for since all clubs I know had a good balance between sparring and tradition. For example, I've never seen a Karate club in Germany, that does NOT practice any sparring, all of these clubs had sparring involved. Same way around, I've never seen a Shotokan Style Karate club which does not practice the traditional part of this martial art.
> 
> As I've already been saying, I lived in Germany for about 20 years, and by now nearly 4 years in the UK, I think I am in the position to make such comparisons. It's a fact that this is a strong difference between finding martial art clubs in Germany and finding martial art clubs in the UK. Why would I lie about it ?



I am not suggesting that you are lying. I am saying that the generalised conclusions that you draw based on your experiences in the UK and Germany are incorrect according to my experience in both of those countries.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I am not suggesting that you are lying. I am saying that the generalised conclusions that you draw based on your experiences in the UK and Germany are incorrect according to my experience in both of those countries.



How long did you live in the UK ? How many different martial art clubs did you actually visit more than once ? What type of martial arts did you practice in the UK and what martial arts did you practice in Germany ? What were your goals when joining certain clubs ?

Since you are not even able to tell me what German county you were practising in, I can't take really serious.

I DO believe you that you made other experience than me, but the question here is, WHAT for experience in what martial arts and where ? Just a week for tournaments in some British kickboxing club, does not count as " knowing many martial art clubs and their structure in the UK ".


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> How long did you live in the UK ? How many different martial art clubs did you actually visit more than once ? What type of martial arts did you practice in the UK and what martial arts did you practice in Germany ? What were your goals when joining certain clubs ?
> 
> Since you are not even able to tell me what German county you were practising in, I can't take really serious.
> 
> I DO believe you that you made other experience than me, but the question here is, WHAT for experience in what martial arts and where ? Just a week for tournaments in some British kickboxing club, does not count as " knowing many martial art clubs and their structure in the UK ".



I am British. I have been practicing various martial arts for a couple of decades, primarily Taekwondo as a base but others too. I have visited and trained at a lot of different places in multiple countries in that time.

I would call myself an all rounder, but I look for specialist clubs when I want to train specific skills. I have never had a problem finding those specialist clubs in the UK or in Germany.

I don't believe in revealing my identity or location in online forums, especially MA forums, which sometimes seem to attract a special kind of person. Good self defence begins with avoidance


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I am British. I have been practicing various martial arts for a couple of decades, primarily Taekwondo as a base but others too. I have visited and trained at a lot of different places in multiple countries in that time.
> 
> I would call myself an all rounder, but I look for specialist clubs when I want to train specific skills. I have never had a problem finding those specialist clubs in the UK or in Germany.
> 
> I don't believe in revealing my identity or location in online forums, especially MA forums, which sometimes seem to attract a special kind of person. Good self defence begins with avoidance



So, do I get this right. You claim I am wrong because you've visited some " specialist clubs " how you call it, and I the person who lived in German for 20 years and trained at least 11 years in about 100 different martial art schools and styles is definitely wrong ?

Come on, you might have seen some special martial art clubs in big cities, but you don't know the common german martial art clubs spread over germany at all, even by a couple of visits you would not get the whole training-structure straight away, how could you know what they train for months over months if you are just a visiter from the UK ?

As I already told you, I believe you made this experience, there is no doubt you didn't, but I think you've been to exceptions, not to the common martial art clubs you were in + I don't know what type of clubs you are actually talking about. I know there are some martial art clubs in cities like Berlin which train far more advanced than any other type of martial art club in German does, but in this case, a few exceptions do NOT confirm the rule.


However! Since I am still visiting Germany rarely, I still would like to know what clubs you've actually trained with, and what martial art. If it was something like MMA or BJJ, I understand the confusion, because these types of martial arts are pretty " new " in Germany and have no clear structure. But Kickboxing,Karate,Kung-Fu,Boxing,Judo,Muay-Thai/Thaiboxing,Wrestling definitely has, these martial arts are the most common one, but if I would have to pick one out of them, I would definitely say that you are going to find a Kickboxing club in every city with more than 1000 habitants.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> So, do I get this right. You claim I am wrong because you've visited some " specialist clubs " how you call it, and I the person who lived in German for 20 years and trained at least 11 years in about 100 different martial art schools and styles is definitely wrong ?



That's not what I said. You make a false assumption. I said I look for specialist places when I want to train a specific skill. Otherwise, a general school will do.



JohnnyEnglish said:


> Come on, you might have seen some special martial art clubs in big cities, but you don't know the common german martial art clubs spread over germany at all, even by a couple of visits you would not get the whole training-structure straight away, how could you know what they train for months over months if you are just a visiter from the UK ?



I've lived here for over 5 years, training at multiple clubs in multiple locations. Again, you make an incorrect assumption. I think I am beginning to see how you came to those incorrect generalised conclusions about Germany and the UK.


JohnnyEnglish said:


> As I already told you, I believe you made this experience, there is no doubt you didn't, but I think you've been to exceptions, not to the common martial art clubs you were in + I don't know what type of clubs you are actually talking about. I know there are some martial art clubs in cities like Berlin which train far more advanced than any other type of martial art club in German does, but in this case, a few exceptions do NOT confirm the rule.



As you say, you don't know.


JohnnyEnglish said:


> However! Since I am still visiting Germany rarely, I still would like to know what clubs you've actually trained with, and what martial art. If it was something like MMA or BJJ, I understand the confusion, because these types of martial arts are pretty " new " in Germany and have no clear structure. But Kickboxing,Karate,Kung-Fu,Boxing,Judo,Muay-Thai/Thaiboxing,Wrestling definitely has, these martial arts are the most common one, but if I would have to pick one out of them, I would definitely say that you are going to find a Kickboxing club in every city with more than 1000 habitants.



You name it, I've tried it. When I moved here, I was looking for something new, so I tried a LOT of places.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> That's not what I said. You make a false assumption. I said I look for specialist places when I want to train a specific skill. Otherwise, a general school will do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand you very well, but you are not specific enough. All you claim is you would have been/and living in Germany for a while and you've seen and trained in many different martial art clubs, and also claim you've trained in " specialist places for specific skills " which does not make any sense at all, because we don't really have so called "specialist places " in Germany, we have martial art schools with high ranked instructors though, maybe that's what you mean. You can not tell me the area you usually train in, which is weird, because somebody who lives in Germany since 5 years would not drive 8 hours to have his weekly training, maybe only to visit certain courses which again, is NOT a martial art school as it is spread everywhere over there.

What makes your statements kind of WRONG, is simply that 1. You can't backup anything by giving proper details about what you train, what you've trained and what clubs you've trained in. 2. You can't tell me what area you are usually train in, I don't think you are switching martial art school every week, this sounds very unusual. 3. You can't tell me what exactly you mean by specialist places, since you live in Germany I ask you to use the original terminology for this type of school or place you are talking about. 4. What is the difference between your so called specialist place and a general school ? 5. If you was looking for something new, do you mean something new you did not have had in the UK or something new for German standards ? MMA for example is not too new in the UK and pretty common, but is something new in Germany.

If you claim you can not agree with what I was saying, please come up with some more details and not just with a plain negative claim.

Here are the clubs I've trained in, maybe this helps you a bit to understand.

Home - TV-Ortenberg-Kickboxen

Kampfsport-Muay-Thai-Thaiboxen-BJJ-Frankfurt - MainGym - Kampfsport in Frankfurt

startseite 1. Ju-Jutsu-Verein Bernau

Home


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> I understand you very well, but you are not specific enough. All you claim is you would have been/and living in Germany for a while and you've seen and trained in many different martial art clubs, and also claim you've trained in " specialist places for specific skills " which does not make any sense at all, because we don't really have so called "specialist places " in Germany, we have martial art schools with high ranked instructors though, maybe that's what you mean. You can not tell me the area you usually train in, which is weird, because somebody who lives in Germany since 5 years would not drive 8 hours to have his weekly training, maybe only to visit certain courses which again, is NOT a martial art school as it is spread everywhere over there.



I mean, with a base as a dan grade in Taekwondo, if I want to train for self protection, I take a self protection course. If I want to train groundwork, I go to a BJJ class. If I want to train demonstration techniques, I go to a place that has demonstration techniques as its strong point, and if I want to train pure sparring of whatever kind, I go to a club that just does sparring work. And so on. All of these places are pretty easy to find if you know where to look and have some connections. 



JohnnyEnglish said:


> What makes your statements kind of WRONG, is simply that 1. You can't backup anything by giving proper details about what you train, what you've trained and what clubs you've trained in.



I can. I am choosing not to do so. I have nothing to prove, and frankly I find your posting style impolite and confrontational so I have little to no  desire to help you understand. 


JohnnyEnglish said:


> 2. You can't tell me what area you are usually train in, I don't think you are switching martial art school every week, this sounds very unusual.



I have a lot of knowledgeable contacts and agreements with different places for different skillsets, and bring in guest instructors for specific skills as required. 


JohnnyEnglish said:


> 3. You can't tell me what exactly you mean by specialist places, since you live in Germany I ask you to use the original terminology for this type of school or place you are talking about.



Already answered this above. I tend to make agreements with people rather than organisations. I find someone who exemplifies the skills I want, and learn from them. 


JohnnyEnglish said:


> 4. What is the difference between your so called specialist place and a general school ?



Example: there are plenty schools in Germany that have their focus purely on groundwork for self defence purposes, or purely on Korean style Hoshinsool and wrist locking techniques. As opposed to a school practicing a more rounded syllabus. 


JohnnyEnglish said:


> 5. If you was looking for something new, do you mean something new you did not have had in the UK or something new for German standards ? MMA for example is not too new in the UK and pretty common, but is something new in Germany.


New to me, not new to Germany. 


JohnnyEnglish said:


> If you claim you can not agree with what I was saying, please come up with some more details and not just with a plain negative claim.
> 
> Here are the clubs I've trained in, maybe this helps you a bit to understand.
> 
> ...



And how is any of this relevant to a thread about Taekwondo in the UK??


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> I mean, with a base as a dan grade in Taekwondo, if I want to train for self protection, I take a self protection course. If I want to train groundwork, I go to a BJJ class. If I want to train demonstration techniques, I go to a place that has demonstration techniques as its strong point, and if I want to train pure sparring of whatever kind, I go to a club that just does sparring work. And so on. All of these places are pretty easy to find if you know where to look and have some connections.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Absolute right, this discussion has nothing to do with my thread and is totally meaningless to me, or how you would maybe call it " A waste of time ".


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Absolute right, this discussion has nothing to do with my thread and is totally meaningless to me, or how you would maybe call it " A waste of time ".


How about this then: on topic, in answer to your original question - Taekwondo in the UK is plenty diverse and you can pretty much find whatever type of class you personally prefer in most cities and towns if you have the right contacts.

I could help you, but I don't see why I should.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> How about this then: on topic, in answer to your original question - Taekwondo in the UK is plenty diverse and you can pretty much find whatever type of class you personally prefer in most cities and towns if you have the right contacts.
> 
> I could help you, but I don't see why I should.



Don't worry, I don't need your help. I am already in a Taekwondo-class and I can use google myself. The question was not really dependent from what I am doing, it was more a common question.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Don't worry, I don't need your help. I am already in a Taekwondo-class and I can use google myself. The question was not really dependent from what I am doing, it was more a common question.



So, what you might call a waste of time then?

Not everything is available via Google. In fact, some of the best clubs in the UK have little to no online presence. 

Anyway, enjoy your sandbags.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 4, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> So, what you might call a waste of time then?
> 
> Not everything is available via Google. In fact, some of the best clubs in the UK have little to no online presence.
> 
> Anyway, enjoy your sandbags.



A martial art club without any online presence ? Kind of weird!

Thank's I will !


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## TrueJim (Aug 4, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> A martial art club without any online presence? Kind of weird!



In my experience, it's not uncommon. A lot of the schools I see have a Facebook page and not much more. Unless somebody in the club feels like maintaining a website, it's probably not going to have a website.  (So that means you have to have at least one geek in the club!  I can say that, since I'm a geek.)  Larger schools, of course, are likely to have pretty good websites, developed by a professional.

The school my son and I attend has a pretty good web page (it's a big school), a Facebook page, and we just created our own YouTube channel.  I'm the volunteer / stuckee who's in charge of the Facebook page and the YouTube channel...but if it wasn't for me volunteering, I doubt we'd have those things.  Speaking of YouTube, we just uploaded some instructional videos for the Taegeuk forms on our channel, if anybody is interested.  Majest Martial Arts - YouTube


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 5, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> In my experience, it's not uncommon. A lot of the schools I see have a Facebook page and not much more. Unless somebody in the club feels like maintaining a website, it's probably not going to have a website.  (So that means you have to have at least one geek in the club!  I can say that, since I'm a geek.)  Larger schools, of course, are likely to have pretty good websites, developed by a professional.
> 
> The school my son and I attend has a pretty good web page (it's a big school), a Facebook page, and we just created our own YouTube channel.  I'm the volunteer / stuckee who's in charge of the Facebook page and the YouTube channel...but if it wasn't for me volunteering, I doubt we'd have those things.  Speaking of YouTube, we just uploaded some instructional videos for the Taegeuk forms on our channel, if anybody is interested.  Majest Martial Arts - YouTube



Ah, and a Facebook page does not count as " Online-Presence " ?


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## TrueJim (Aug 5, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> Ah, and a Facebook page does not count as " Online-Presence " ?



What I meant was, if they have any online presence at all, it's maybe a Facebook page and not much else. In other words, many clubs don't even have that.

If you'd like, I can send you the hyperlinks to all the local clubs that don't have any online presence at all. Oh, wait...


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 5, 2015)

TrueJim said:


> What I meant was, if they have any online presence at all, it's maybe a Facebook page and not much else. In other words, many clubs don't even have that.
> 
> If you'd like, I can send you the hyperlinks to all the local clubs that don't have any online presence at all. Oh, wait...



Hehe, good one.

I know that there are clubs which have no online presence at all, I just think a club which wants to survive, NEED online presence. Because the people starting with martial arts, are MOSTLY below 30 or even below 20s, which means, they are not going to walk around and ask people for martial art clubs, they are having a look in to google and that's it, plenty of martial art clubs will show up there, so there is no need to have an " outside-online " search for MA clubs.

This is why I think a martial art club without ANY online presence not even with Facebook presence, is some sort of supect to me, suspect when it comes to organisation and developing. A good organise martial arts club knows how to advertise and also wants continuesly develop itself.

But this is just my personal opinion. Maybe I have this opinion because I've been making a couple of bad experience with martial art schools which were not online-present at all, and I kind of more found by asking people. Most of them were very small ( which is not bad ) but the trainers were usually kind of demotivated and not really arrived in modern world, they seriously believed walking down katas all day long and train without any contact will make a good warrior. But maybe I just hit the wrong clubs


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## Jacky Zuki (Aug 5, 2015)

Some martial arts schools don't have an online presence simply because they want to attract people who are willing to seek them out rather than those who just type "karate" into a search engine. There are clubs who don't need to advertise online because they do their advertising locally and have a reasonable cohort already. There are clubs who don't advertise online because they wish to remain small and select. There are many reasons why a club may not be online and survival doesn't come into it. The clubs around here with the best internet presence are those with whom I would never be seen training, there is still a certain cachet to not needing to advertise.

Oh and not every club is about training to be a good warrior as you put it, otherwise why train in martial *arts* at all. Many clubs are more focussed on training to be better people; healthier, fitter, more focussed, emotionally stable, confident and resilient. If I wanted to be a better warrior I would just practice shooting at rats with my shotgun. Defence is only one of the reasons I train in karate.


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## TrueJim (Aug 5, 2015)

Also, I think a lot of university clubs may not bother with an online presence. Same goes for clubs that are hosted by local community centers, YMCAs, etc. Those kinds of places can rely on flyers tacked onto the bulletin board, and they have limited space anyway so it's not as if they're necessarily trying to expand too much.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 5, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> A martial art club without any online presence ? Kind of weird!



Is it? Our dojang doesn't have any online presence. And I don't think we're particularly weird.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 5, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is it? Our dojang doesn't have any online presence. And I don't think we're particularly weird.


Just what I mean. Some of the best places with the highest standards have no online presence. They don't need it because their word of mouth is strong, or they train an elite group by invitation.


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## JohnnyEnglish (Aug 5, 2015)

Gnarlie said:


> Just what I mean. Some of the best places with the highest standards have no online presence. They don't need it because their word of mouth is strong, or they train an elite group by invitation.



This might be right, but is sadly not the common case for non-online present martial art clubs.


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## Gnarlie (Aug 5, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> This might be right, but is sadly not the common case for non-online present martial art clubs.


Depends on your individual circumstances. Online present clubs can be great too, I don't think whether or not they are online is the defining factor. That is beside the point; the fact is many great clubs exist which are not online, and if you are only looking on Google, you are doing yourself a disservice.


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## chrispillertkd (Aug 5, 2015)

Dirty Dog said:


> Is it? Our dojang doesn't have any online presence. And I don't think we're particularly weird.



All the weirdoes think they're completely normal!

Pax,

Chris


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 5, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> This might be right, but is sadly not the common case for non-online present martial art clubs.



I'd really love to seem some documentation to support this ridiculous claim.
What I suspect will happen, though, as with your other more outlandish claims, is that you will completely fail to provide any support.
Actually, I more than suspect this. I am quite certain that you will utterly fail to provide any support.


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 5, 2015)

chrispillertkd said:


> All the weirdoes think they're completely normal!
> 
> Pax,
> 
> Chris



You should know!


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## TSDTexan (Aug 5, 2015)

tshadowchaser said:


> Just a friendly reminder to all this is a friendly forum, disagreements are fine but please be respectful of each other.



Smile and be happy or else!

"Ensign!"
"Yes, Captain?"
"Ready, the tickling feathers, and be prepared to fire on my mark!"
"Aye Aye, Captain!"


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## Dirty Dog (Aug 5, 2015)

JohnnyEnglish said:


> This might be right, but is sadly not the common case for non-online present martial art clubs.





Dirty Dog said:


> I'd really love to seem some documentation to support this ridiculous claim.
> What I suspect will happen, though, as with your other more outlandish claims, is that you will completely fail to provide any support.
> Actually, I more than suspect this. I am quite certain that you will utterly fail to provide any support.



So... my prediction was right. Your only attempt to support your ridiculous claim was to click "Dislike"..

It's laughable, really.

You can dislike as often as you wish, kid. It won't change the fact that every unsupported, ridiculous claim you make merely further erodes your already poor credibility.


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