# Zen Bhuddism?



## Nyrotic (Jul 27, 2007)

Is there anyone here that is a Zen Bhuddist? I've been looking into it lately and have been thinking about formally converting to it. Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how to go about it, as all the temples near where I live seem strangely....cult-like, and not Zen, nor do I even know anyone who could help guide me through it...


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## JadecloudAlchemist (Jul 27, 2007)

> Is there anyone here that is a Zen Bhuddist? I've been looking into it lately and have been thinking about formally converting to it. Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how to go about it, as all the temples near where I live seem strangely....cult-like, and not Zen, nor do I even know anyone who could help guide me through it...


 Not sure how you can be a Zen Buddhist.... My father enjoyed the teachings of Zen Buddhism alot and one of my first books was a book of Koans(great for children being raised in Buddhism) I would not be suprised if the retreats centers or what ever are "mixed newage". As my first teacher told me about being a monk "You do not need a temple to see Buddha look for Buddha within oneself" In Japan Zen is not to popular as Tendai and Shingon when I asked my wife who is Japanese and my mother in law about Zen Buddhism they asked what is Zen. I had to use a Kanji translator to explain it further. That is my involvement in Zen Buddhism.
Good luck in your search.


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## Jin Gang (Jul 27, 2007)

You don't need to convert to anything.  You don't "receive" zen or "become" zen.  When you leave everything behind, you find "zen".  Forget "zen".  
All the temples and rituals seem so hollow, don't they?  There's nothing inside the temple walls that isn't already inside your heart and mind.  Being in there doesn't make you any more or less of anything.  
Zen is called "mind to mind transmission" and "a seperate transmission outside the texts".  
Listen to and observe a teacher.  Learn from the tradition of the sages and Buddhas of the past.  Remove the dirt from the mirror and see your true face.  Stop all the waves and see the light's reflection deep and clear.  That's it.  Just practice.

Bodhidharma's lessons say "The Mind is the Buddha" and "There is no Buddha other than this Mind."   So what?  
No one needs to tell you you're a "Buddhist".  You already know if your practice is "zen".  

The bodhisattva vows to liberate all beings from suffering.  If this is the heart of your practice, then you are "converted".


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## Freestyler777 (Jul 28, 2007)

For whatever my opinion means, I think it is not necessary to 'officially convert' to Zen/Cha'n Buddhism.  It's just a discipline that anyone can practice.  Isn't the essence of zen what boddhidarmma said- "A seperate tradition outside the scriptures, directly pointing to ones mind, becoming a buddha."  Boddhidarmma founded the new strain of buddhism, which does away with convention and formality, when he visited China from India to teach buddhism.


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## Nyrotic (Jul 28, 2007)

Hmm, I see what you two mean. That said, however, where can I learn more about Zen Bhuddism? I already have 1 book on it (Zen, by Peter Oldmeadow), it's a fairly good book IMO, albeit brief, and I was wondering if there's any other books out there that go a bit more in depth into Zen Bhuddism that you'd recommend.


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## Jin Gang (Jul 28, 2007)

I recommend studying the sutras and the teachings of Ch'an masters over the centuries.  Modern zen books are ok, but they all come from the foundation of the teachings of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and patriarchs.  Investigate everything for yourself, to awaken your own insight.  That is what Zen is all about.  

The first sermon spoken by Guatama Buddha, where he describes the four noble truths and eightfold path, which came to him.  
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html

The lankavatara sutra, one of the sutras which they say Bodhidharma held highly 
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/lankavatara_sutra.htm

The Shurangama sutra, a long sutra where the Buddha gives many teachings to Ananda and a gathering of Bodhisattvas and arhats.  An important part of this one is the section where various Bodhisattvas describe the manner in which they became enlightened, including Avalokitesvara (Quan Yin).
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/shurangama_sutra.htm

The heart sutra, a very short sutra, attributed to Avalokitesvara, getting straight to the heart of things
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/heartsutra.html

Get your hands on "The Zen teachings of Bodhidharma", it's a little paperback book with translations of some of the sermons associated to Bodhidharma, the first patriarch of Zen (who taught at Shaolin temple)

The autobiography of Han Shan is also a good read
http://www.hsuyun.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/HanShan/hanshan-maxims.html\


There are teachers out there, also.  They may or may not be a part of an organization or "temple", but a good teacher can help illuminate the Way for you.  (The teacher and student find eahchother when they are both ready)


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