# Karate or not karate that's the question....



## Manny (May 22, 2009)

Hello hall, I've been chating with a friend of mine who is a Black Belt in japanese Karate (I think Shotokan) and having good time and good discusions about MA, he asked me why not try karate with him or his sensei.
Daniel (my budy's name) show me a video of the japanese female kata team in an international tournamet in 2006 if I recall, and believe the kata and bunkai this 3 ladies perform was amazing.

I'm actually a 1 dan black belt on TKD and I would like to learn/train in something else. What do you think of?

Would be difficult to swich from TKD to Karate? I would like to train 2 times per week TKD and 2 or 3 times karate per week.

Any input will be nice to have from you karatekas.

Manny


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## Bill Mattocks (May 22, 2009)

Cross-training is seldom a bad thing.  As I'm sure you already know, many of the kicks are similar, and Japanese or Okinawan karate styles incorporate more blocks and punches than perhaps you're used to.

Ultimately, I hope to add a ground-fighting style to my karate, perhaps judo.  Since I'm middle-aged, I don't have a lot of time to master many styles.  My thought was a good stand-up style and a good ground-style would make me a more capable martial artist.  Take that for what it may be worth from a newbie to karate.


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## dancingalone (May 22, 2009)

Personally, I think you should try something more different, Manny.  You already have an excellent base in a striking art from TKD, so why not learn new skills that will complement those you have already?  

I believe you've looked into aikido and hapkido?  Did they not interest you?  

Why not look at tai chi chuan or baqauazhang?  Those are softer arts that may be more friendly to your aging joints.

Whatever the direction you decide to go in, I think the art is ultimately unimportant.  It seems to me that you just wish to find a teacher that is heavily focused on self-defense usage and you need a training hall that has an adequate amount of adult partners to work with.


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## arnisador (May 22, 2009)

There are a lot of similarities...enough that I wonder if it'd truly be cross-training for you! TKD is derived from Shotokan, though of course it's been modified since.


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## twendkata71 (May 22, 2009)

*Only slight differences in Stances(weight distribution, depth),  Method of kicking(angle,cocking mechinism).  You should be able to make a transition quite easily.*
*I know several masters that teach both Korean Taekwondo and Japanese Karate do(George Anderson USAKF[Shotokan(kwanmukan)/Changmookwan], Roger Jarret  USANKF[Ryobukai/Shotokan/Chongshinkwan Taekwondo], Many of todays Traditional karate competitors USANKF cross train in Taekwondo to develop their flexibility and kicking abilities(kicks to the body and head score higher USANKF/WKF national and internation events).*


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## Omar B (May 22, 2009)

Moving onto shotokan would be like paying twice for the same thing.  Except for slight differences in where you chamber the hand for a punch or the knee before a kick things are pretty similar.  Never hurts to work out with him though, I come from a Seido background and learned a lot from working out with a TKD instructor who lives near me, not enough to motivate me to want to pay for it though.


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## Manny (May 22, 2009)

dancingalone said:


> Personally, I think you should try something more different, Manny. You already have an excellent base in a striking art from TKD, so why not learn new skills that will complement those you have already?
> 
> As usual dancingalone you are right.
> 
> ...


 
You are right I'm looking for a dojo wich teaches self defense and has adult (seniors) to spar/work out with.

If I wanted aikido or hapkido would have to quit TKD, that's why I'm still searching for a suitable MA to train the days I don't do TKD.

Manny


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 22, 2009)

Manny said:


> Hello hall, I've been chating with a friend of mine who is a Black Belt in japanese Karate (I think Shotokan) and having good time and good discusions about MA, he asked me why not try karate with him or his sensei.
> Daniel (my budy's name) show me a video of the japanese female kata team in an international tournamet in 2006 if I recall, and believe the kata and bunkai this 3 ladies perform was amazing.
> 
> I'm actually a 1 dan black belt on TKD and I would like to learn/train in something else. What do you think of?
> ...


Actually, I think it would be a good idea, provided you could keep the two separate.  The two are incredibly similar.

Firstly, I am one of those who views taekwondo as Korean Karate, not as a native Korean art.  It has very strong roots in Shotokan, so many of the techniques will be similar.  We had a gent who started taekwondo at our school but held a second dan in Shotokan.  There were some stylistic differences, but he picked it up very quickly and excelled and did earn his blackbelt.  He did say that there were enough differences between the two that he felt that it was worthwhile to have taken up Taekwondo. 

What I think you will get from Shotokan may be a deeper understanding of some of your taekwondo techniques.

Daniel


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## Makalakumu (May 22, 2009)

Well, I would recommend against it.  There are so many similarities that the differences become magnified.  In the end, it messes up what you already do well and eventually you'll have to pick one or the other in order to really move on.  Personally, I'd go with karate and supplement with a grappling style and weapon style.  TKDs high kicks are great when you are younger, but eventually they take a high toll on your body and they just aren't very useful outside of competition.  You can practice karate with more longevity.


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## Manny (May 22, 2009)

maunakumu said:


> TKDs high kicks are great when you are younger, but eventually they take a high toll on your body and they just aren't very useful outside of competition. You can practice karate with more longevity.


 
When I was a teen, I could kick preetty high but now at 41 those kicks are almost impossible, that's why I would rather prefer the rounhouse kick, the side kick, back kick and the spining back kick to mid level (stomach-chest-ribs area). I was off TKD for lmost 17 years, I earned my Black Belt in 1987 and quit TKD in 1990, so basically returned TKD in may 2007.

TKD is exelent for kids and youngers and almost all dojans I know the training is focused on the kids,leaving the MA by side and focus only in flying/jumping high kicks. That's why I'm looking for a new martial art that focus on practical self defense, where I can interactuate with middle age men not kids.

In my city there is alot of TKD Dojans, only one Aikido dojo, a few karate dojos and only one or two judo dojo, that's all.

Manny


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## J Ellis (May 22, 2009)

Sounds like you've answered your own question. You have a good background in TKD, but you do not have a recent long-term commitment to it, and it does not appear to meet your present needs/abilities or those you anticipate in the future.

You can be pleased with the fact that you studied for and earned a black belt in another system, something many with backgrounds in other arts did not accomplish. Your black belt in TKD doesn't mean you are married to the art. You get to decide where you go from here.

Joel


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## Makalakumu (May 22, 2009)

I would honestly recommend checking out the karate dojos.  I think you'll find something more to suit your needs.  Judo can get rough on the body if you are competing so I'd be careful with that.  However, if you learn to fall well and just "go with it" when doing randori, you'll find the art is quite rigorous and safe.


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## Daniel Sullivan (May 22, 2009)

Manny said:


> When I was a teen, I could kick preetty high but now at 41 those kicks are almost impossible, that's why I would rather prefer the rounhouse kick, the side kick, back kick and the spining back kick to mid level (stomach-chest-ribs area). I was off TKD for lmost 17 years, I earned my Black Belt in 1987 and quit TKD in 1990, so basically returned TKD in may 2007.
> 
> TKD is exelent for kids and youngers and almost all dojans I know the training is focused on the kids,leaving the MA by side and focus only in flying/jumping high kicks. That's why I'm looking for a new martial art that focus on practical self defense, where I can interactuate with middle age men not kids.
> 
> ...


Your story is similar to my own.  I had exposure to TSD, Shotokan, and Jhoon Rhee TKD as a youngster, then studied later at two different TKD dojos, as well as a Shotokan class as an elective at high school.  I got to brown belt in TKD and then my first child came along and I wound up working three jobs and martial arts just went by the wayside.  I did maintain a presence sport fencing (there was a club that I could go to for next to nothing) and I got involved in kendo later on, but it was almost twenty years before I stepped back into a white, vee neck dobok.

I can kick quite high, higher than my head and I am older than yourself.  I do not necesarilly buy into the idea that taekwondo as a whole is only good for youngsters.  Unfortunately, most of the schools focus on the sport and competition, which definitely is for youngsters.

I have been working with my old material from my Shotokan days and am reacquainting myself with the kata, so if you wind up studying Shotokan, I will be interested in your progress.

Best wishes!

Daniel


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## Manny (May 22, 2009)

Tomorrow will go to the Shotokan dojo to meet the sensei and talk him about my needs, lets see what happens.

Judo? yes it can be very rough and a broken leg or ribs no please.

Aikido, softher than judo but can be very efective.

I need a break from TKD so need to see what MA is more suitable to my needs.

Manny


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## harlan (May 23, 2009)

All karate styles aren't the same. If you are looking for similarities to the TKD, then Shotokan. But if looking to expand you might check out other karate. Goju and Uechi, for instance, addresses the close-in range.


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## terryl965 (May 23, 2009)

Manny I do both Okinawa Karate and TKd as you know it is a nice mixture of the Arts along with it I do some Judo and BJJ now. I of course only do the BJJ with a local guy a couple of hours a week but it is nice to add to my ground game, I say go and do it and see what happens, one thing for sure is the Karate will be beneficial to your sparring and tournament because TKD guys are not use to the difference angle in which kicks come from. Best of luck to you.


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## Martin h (Jul 17, 2009)

You might also want to consider kyokushin or similar knockdown karate styles (ashihara, shidokan, world oyama, seidokaikan etc etc) if you want more power fighting. Basically Knockdown is tkd +lowkicks +sweeps +knees +effective punches +elbows(to the body)  -protective equipment -point for ineffective hits. with the purpose of knocking the opponent out.
not as stylistically pleasing as shotokan, but more into sparring, endurance and full contact.

Some knockdown styles, like ashihara and enshin are also very much into throws. But not really into grappling on the ground.


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## Tez3 (Jul 18, 2009)

harlan said:


> All karate styles aren't the same. If you are looking for similarities to the TKD, then Shotokan. But if looking to expand you might check out other karate. Goju and Uechi, for instance, addresses the close-in range.


 

Wado Ryu has shorter stances and incorporates throws, take downs and many strikes you won't find in TKD. I loved it and was heart broken when my instructor moved away and I couldn't train anymore, I now do TSD and MMA but do still miss Wado.


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