# Reflexes



## birney29 (Oct 9, 2002)

Hi,

ive doing wing chun for a wee while, enough to grasp the basics and tp be able to chi sau competently. However, one area i am having a hard time with is blocking punches. i was training last night with my partner standing quite close with our hands by our sides then he would try and hit me, full power to my chest. I was getting hit nearly everytime. i just didnt seem to be fast enough. will this come with practise or are there any other drills i can do to speed up a bit? im sick of getting hit!

Thanks

Kenny


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## Phil Elmore (Oct 9, 2002)

Like anything, you can do drills to increase your speed and hone your reflexes.  However, reaction will always come more slowly than action, so your partner has a natural advantage each time he strikes you while your arms are at you sides.

Try tapping him once, the next time you're standing toe to toe like that.


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## tilsonsifu (Oct 9, 2002)

First of all ask your sifu about the correct footwork for this kind of strike.  Second focus on getting our hands to the centerline, then deal with the strike.  Getting your hands to the center will make your opponent take the outside path.  Third, try to practice real life situations instead of gunslinging (-;  from a pole position.  It IS good to try all situations though.  Most of the time the first move should be to get your hands to the center and deal with the contact through your chi sao skills from there.

Regards


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## DireWolf (Oct 9, 2002)

> Third, try to practice real life situations instead of gunslinging (-; from a pole position.



I couldn't agree more.  In a real life situation where someone is in your face spoiling for a fight the 1st thing you should do is have your hands up in a non threatening manner that allows you to maintain a "fence" or distance between you and the aggressor.  It is the rarest of cases where someone just walks up and slams you one on the nose with no indication whatsoever!  Not that I'm saying it doesn't happen, but not often.

Remember Wing Chun has that guard structure for a reason.  If we were meant to have our hands down by our sides then the guard would probably reflect that.  

:yinyang:
DW


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## theneuhauser (Oct 12, 2002)

i dont know the wing chun methods, so this may not comply with the system. but the "gunslinging" stuff will teach you what to look for in a person that is striking you. with some time you can anticipate more effectively. some examples of warning signs are, shoulders raising or tightening in the opponent before the strike. others will drop one shoulder, its almost always opposite the striking arm. chin movement and eyes squinting are not uncommon. the huge majority of fighters do "something" as they are coiling to strike, aside from an obvious "cocking" of an arm there are many more subtle warnings that allow you to begin your defense with anticipation, much like a tennis player that returns a powerful serve.


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## Phil Elmore (Oct 12, 2002)

I agree.  You can't walk around with your hands up in a guard stance all the time -- and most people don't do that, either.


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## theneuhauser (Oct 12, 2002)

OMG phil!


I just looked at your avatar and i couldnt help myself.
Im yelling at the office right now.


WHO'S DA MASTA! 
SHO NUFF!


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## tilsonsifu (Oct 13, 2002)

Of course you want to train for all situations, but for a beginner, with only a couple years of experience or less, without the real concept of centerline, 'gunslinging' isn't a good idea.  IMHO when a Wing Chun practitioner has the vital concepts of the centerline and footwork instinctual in muscle memory, then they should try different situations like defending from: pole position, sitting in a chair, across a table, laying on the ground, back turned, side position, etc.  The first response I gave was based on the practitioner being a beginner as birney29 stated.  One purpose on the Sil Lum Tao form is to give the beginner real centerline practice.  Then they move into the Chum Kil form to add the correct footwork.  Then in the final parts of Chum Kil and the Bil Jee form the practitioner is introduced to different situations.  But for the beginner, stick to the centerline and getting your hands to the center.  This is why we spend almost 2 years in the Sil Lum Tao form before moving to Chum Kil.

This is a great topic.  And I hope I haven't offended anyone.  I just think to many instructors try to rush practitioners into 'more exciting' situations to keep the students coming and paying tuition.  This makes the basic principles of Wing Chun void.

tilsonsifu


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## jongman (Oct 20, 2002)

Just a thought  but are you focussing on his fist/hands, his chest or face or on his elbows?
Buy focussing on, (watching), his elbows you get advanced warning of his intention to punch, then by blocking or deflecting the elbow you will deflect the fist as well. The elbow moves 2.5 times slower than the fist on a straight punch attack and up to 6 times slower on a hook. This makes it easier to see and then block or deflect.


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## birney29 (Oct 21, 2002)

THanks, ill try that. by the way, your wev site is excellent.


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## jongman (Oct 21, 2002)

Cheers Kenny, and welcome. I hope you get something out of it, more to come soon!


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## ajvdarwin (Dec 10, 2004)

A good way to build up your reflexes is to do drills like four corner deflection where you stand in your wing chun stance with your guard on. Your training partner then does a left hook at your head followed by a right hook. We usually do a di sau redirecting the punch at the same time punching the opponent in the chest. Whatever technique you have been taught to do against a hooking punch would apply. At first you would get your training partner to do the punches fairly slowly and then speed up after you feel comfortable. Make sure you get your training partner to stagger the punches. Also make sure his punches will be able to reach your head if they get through as this teaches your what range you have to be. Then once you can do this flat out your training partner then adds left and right upper cuts to your stomach after the hooks. Once your are able to do this you then add left and right straight punches after the hooks and upper cuts. So basically your training partner does these six punches  in sequence until you are comfortable. You then get your training partner to do these punches randomly. Once you can do this randomly you then get your training partner to move around so your not static. Once you feel comfortable you then add back fists and so on. After awhile you will do the techniques against these types of strikes whithout thinking.


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## tshadowchaser (Dec 10, 2004)

relaxation is one of the keys to reflex. If you are tense you will not have the best reaction time.


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## ajvdarwin (Dec 16, 2004)

Another good exercise for developing fast reflexes is catching your training partners punches. This is done by you and your training partner facing eachother square on. The person who is going to catch the punches has his hands at shoulder width and at chest level. The person who is going to punch is in the wing chun stance with a guard on left or right hand forward. The person then punching throws a punch at his training parners chest not trying to hit him, His training partner then claps his hands together and tries to catch the punch on the way in not the on the way out. This works both ways as it teaches the person punching to not telegraph their punches as well as snapping their punches out. The person catching the punches also benefits as they have to be focussed as well as relaxed. To make the exercise harder the person catching the punches can move their hands closer together.


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## spatulahunter (Dec 16, 2004)

its gonna be almost impossible to block a hit like that with your hands at your sides. Thats why with wing chun we are seeking a bridge (chum kiu is the bridge seeking form). In a fight you are most likely gonna get hit. Wing chun will help you to take control and keep from getting hit alot. Our Master will often do a very similar exercise but we will have a Wu sau up and we still cant block him but then he will have us put our hand on his and we can block him everytime. That is why we chi sau so we can feel the oponent cause its nearly impossible to block him with sight.


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## DarrenJew (Jan 3, 2005)

birney29 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> ive doing wing chun for a wee while, enough to grasp the basics and tp be able to chi sau competently. However, one area i am having a hard time with is blocking punches. i was training last night with my partner standing quite close with our hands by our sides then he would try and hit me, full power to my chest. I was getting hit nearly everytime. i just didnt seem to be fast enough. will this come with practise or are there any other drills i can do to speed up a bit? im sick of getting hit!
> 
> ...


I agree Chi Sau is used to practice your sensitivity. If I recall there's two stikes in Chi Sau that are considered "Cheap" shots. One is a left hand puch as your left hand is cycling up. And the other is a right hand strike... as your bong sau is cycling down... you open your opponents center using a quick jerking motion... (use your back muscles not so much your arms) quickly stike his center with your right hand and a low pac sau with your left. (I don't know If Im describing the move right... but I know the experienced Wing Chun ppl know which moves Im talking about.)

When doing Chi Sau it helps to practice with someone that wants to practice. If both parties agree that the "cheap" shots are acceptable in this session... then I recommend taking the shot and countering it. Or adding Chi Gerk (kicks) into the mix. 

(Using the "Cheap" shots in Chi Sau makes for a quick unpleasant "Cheap" shot trading match. The guy's I used to work out with stayed away from using those moves unless we both specifically agreed to train on those moves. Going back to the original post... The people you train with are suppose to be your brothers.. and your si hings should know better than to pull that.)


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