# How to breath properly in Karate?



## Grimlon332 (Jul 7, 2019)

One of my always pending question about practicing karate, is how do you breath properly in different circumstances (striking, blocking, evading...). Most people and senseis, tend to reply that you block the air when you are punching, and at the last moment, you let it go, so it can do a destructive fist. But, when I met other masters, they said to me that I have to breath near normally. So, I am a little bit confused. Also, do you have any exercises to train my breathing? (I heard that there ar plenty in Goju Ryu style, I'm a shotokan guy).


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2019)

This is a great topic.

I am primarily TKD with Kali and a little Kung Fu smattered in so my comments may be different from your Shotokan teachings. I am not familiar with the "blocking the air" example. 
In regards to breathing, for me the best practice comes when we are drilling hard and I get really winded. This forces me to work on breath control.
We practice the "classic" in through the nose out through the mouth technique. Working on breathing as deeply as possible to get full lung function, giving your body maximum oxygen. Especially for the beginner, most will find it hard to fully inhale. It is a learned practice and usually takes time to strengthen the core to reach maximum benefit. 
The exhale is the big aid in power development and I can see where the "blocking the air" analogy may come from. The kick/strike/block/etc... is performed on the exhale, "pushing" the air and ultimately your core through the technique. 
Most people cannot keep this up for a very extended length of time, hours for example. 

I find it difficult to explain the difference, but a kiap is an elevation of the above description. Most times you have to benefit of a little mental preparation, however slight it may be. It is for that truly full power strike, most often a singular event. The knockout. 
The noise, if anything really different, it is that noise made when reaching to pick up something very heavy. In the split second before impact everything is engaged. In the moment of impact everything is released into the strike. So, yes I believe internal energy flows through a strike. This is the Yin/Yang, Um/Yong principle and I fully believe in it.

As for exercises, like I mentioned above, consciously thinking about your breathing during extended drills is where the skill of breathing is found. Working on deep, deep breathing and consistently breathing the same. It doesn't have to be loud, I think that is more of a style thing.
This will also increase your ability to extend and function at a high level during the anaerobic periods, when you are just trying to stay on your feet. 

Tai Chi also teaches good breathing skills.


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## JP3 (Jul 7, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> As for exercises, like I mentioned above, consciously thinking about your breathing during extended drills is where the skill of breathing is found. Working on deep, deep breathing and consistently breathing the same. It doesn't have to be loud, I think that is more of a style thing.
> This will also increase your ability to extend and function at a high level during the anaerobic periods, when you are just trying to stay on your feet.
> 
> Tai Chi also teaches good breathing skills.


I'd use different words to say basically the same thing, coming out of my TKD/HKD/Muay Thai study.  In Judo, I was introduced to the idea of breathing all the way through the technique, which at first seemed to be contradictory to what I'd learned about kihap/kiai method... and ended up working together just fine. Build, engage, explode at release.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jul 7, 2019)

I am in favor of breathing.  I practice it often.

With regard to different types of breathing, stick to your training and do what your sensei says.  Every style has a different way of doing it, none of them are wrong as far as I can tell.  

A couple of random thoughts.  In through the nose, out through the mouth.  Drop your wind before taking a punch to the midsection if you can.  Exhale on striking (I also practice so-called reverse-breathing, where I inhale on striking, but that's another topic).


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## Danny T (Jul 7, 2019)

For the most part just breathe. Your body knows what to do. The problem usually is in not exhaling or holding your breath. Exhale on exertion.


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## dvcochran (Jul 7, 2019)

It is figurative but I often teach that kiap/kihap literally means expulsion of air. Although I think the bigger part of the quotient is breathing in correctly. The deeper you can breathe in the more oxygen available to the blood and thus the body. Of course if you short stroke either way, in or out, it doesn't work.
Breath control is something I really have to work on.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Jul 8, 2019)

I would just take some Yoga for breathing exercises, and yes it can be worked in with martial arts practice as some people have and it ultimate helps flexibility and breathing.   And maybe some other skills you might need/use in it.  

Cant comment for breathing properly, i just breath as i do exercises/punches, i sometimes make the vocalization but that seems to be more on accident than anything else/point is to tighten stomach or something.         Better to breath incorrectly as in not in time with anything than to hold it.


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## Buka (Jul 8, 2019)

Grimlon, yes, it can be confusing in Martial Arts, can't it?

I'm with Danny, just breathe. The more you do any activity, the more you will find out the best way to breathe for it. In sparring, you'll learn to adjust your breathing just by doing it. Same for running, swimming etc. Get advice from your coaches, try it out and let your body adjust and figure it out.

One thing I always encouraged my students to do was to at some time or other - to push themselves until they were completely out of breath and bent over gasping. Just to see where that point was and to train and adjust accordingly. I think it a good idea to know where your physical boundaries _may_ be.

I'll tell you one thing though, of all the people I've been lucky enough to meet in Martial Arts, nobody knows more about breathing than Rickson Gracie. Honest to God, it's fricken' mind boggling.


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## Grimlon332 (Jul 12, 2019)

Sorry for the long silence, I was in a long karate seminar. Thanks for all the answers, and I will look forward to all of yours informations and the people you're talking, like Rickson Gracie. I will look into Qi gong or Tai Chi, maybe it could help me.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 14, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> It is figurative but I often teach that kiap/kihap literally means expulsion of air. Although I think the bigger part of the quotient is breathing in correctly. The deeper you can breathe in the more oxygen available to the blood and thus the body. Of course if you short stroke either way, in or out, it doesn't work.
> Breath control is something I really have to work on.


Something I read last year (I can't find it now) suggested that breath control in exertion (running, etc.) centers around getting the breath out. It said when we get "out of breath" in a new activity, apparently it's mostly because we haven't mastered breathing and are breathing in too soon, before we get enough breath out. I think a lot of the breathing exercises I've seen in MA are focused on the out-breath for this reason (though the people creating the exercises may not have had the knowledge we have today).


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 14, 2019)

Grimlon332 said:


> One of my always pending question about practicing karate, is how do you breath properly in different circumstances (striking, blocking, evading...). Most people and senseis, tend to reply that you block the air when you are punching, and at the last moment, you let it go, so it can do a destructive fist. But, when I met other masters, they said to me that I have to breath near normally. So, I am a little bit confused. Also, do you have any exercises to train my breathing? (I heard that there ar plenty in Goju Ryu style, I'm a shotokan guy).


The blocked breath shows up in several arts (I've seen it in Daito-ryu videos). With most grappling that have a standard breathing style, they tend to focus on exhale during execution, with a harder "finish" if you want to throw harder. More focus on breathing shows up on the ukemi (receiving the throw), where a kiai is often used to get the breath out at the moment of impact.

In punching arts that have a standardized approach, you're more likely to see breathing over a combination/series, rather than within a single technique. That's because a single punch rarely is your whole sequence (whereas a single throw, once you start the entry, often is). So there tends to be a focus on getting inhale/exhale to span areas of movement, using kiai (which has some of the same benefits as blocked breath, and can be used just after blocked breath) often is only used at certain "climax" points, where they're intending a near-maximum strike or some sort of finish. You can see this in many kata, in the phrasing that's used.


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## dvcochran (Jul 14, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Something I read last year (I can't find it now) suggested that breath control in exertion (running, etc.) centers around getting the breath out. It said when we get "out of breath" in a new activity, apparently it's mostly because we haven't mastered breathing and are breathing in too soon, before we get enough breath out. I think a lot of the breathing exercises I've seen in MA are focused on the out-breath for this reason (though the people creating the exercises may not have had the knowledge we have today).


Have you found information on aerobic stage breathing vs. anaerobic stage breathing? It may just be me but when in the anaerobic level I think more about the breath in, until as you mentioned there is a strike or kick etc... There has to be some kind of natural balance in there somewhere with lung capacity, chest/abdominal muscles, and mental discipline. 
Both of my lungs were punctured and collapsed but I do think they are a factor now.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 15, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Have you found information on aerobic stage breathing vs. anaerobic stage breathing? It may just be me but when in the anaerobic level I think more about the breath in, until as you mentioned there is a strike or kick etc... There has to be some kind of natural balance in there somewhere with lung capacity, chest/abdominal muscles, and mental discipline.
> Both of my lungs were punctured and collapsed but I do think they are a factor now.


The work I looked at didn't go that deep. It was mainly focused on a single issue that appears to be consistent when people get a start in running (the exercise that was used). They got out of breath quickly because their breath rate sped up, starting the inhale too quickly. That meant they didn't get enough air out, so weren't getting enough new (more oxygenated) air in. This lead pretty quickly to a hypoxic sensation, which caused them to start to breathe faster (same problem), which made it worse. These were all findings in the control group. Slowing the breathing pace allowed the experimental group to focus on breathing out fully, and they didn't get "out of breath" as quickly. Looking at folks who had already been running consistently for some time (I think 6 weeks was what they used), they had all already developed that slower, controlled breathing pattern.


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## dvcochran (Jul 15, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> The work I looked at didn't go that deep. It was mainly focused on a single issue that appears to be consistent when people get a start in running (the exercise that was used). They got out of breath quickly because their breath rate sped up, starting the inhale too quickly. That meant they didn't get enough air out, so weren't getting enough new (more oxygenated) air in. This lead pretty quickly to a hypoxic sensation, which caused them to start to breathe faster (same problem), which made it worse. These were all findings in the control group. Slowing the breathing pace allowed the experimental group to focus on breathing out fully, and they didn't get "out of breath" as quickly. Looking at folks who had already been running consistently for some time (I think 6 weeks was what they used), they had all already developed that slower, controlled breathing pattern.


**EDIT: I do Not think my lung injuries are an issue now. 

I never knew the formal name (hypoxic sensation) but for sure know what you are talking about. I swear, the magnitude of it seems to change from day to day for me.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 16, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> **EDIT: I do Not think my lung injuries are an issue now.
> 
> I never knew the formal name (hypoxic sensation) but for sure know what you are talking about. I swear, the magnitude of it seems to change from day to day for me.


Does conscious breathing control have any effect on it? I'd wonder if a reflex reaction of some sort - perhaps a continuing response from the lung injury - is at work.


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## Bruce7 (Jul 16, 2019)

Grimlon332 said:


> One of my always pending question about practicing karate, is how do you breath properly in different circumstances (striking, blocking, evading...). Most people and senseis, tend to reply that you block the air when you are punching, and at the last moment, you let it go, so it can do a destructive fist. But, when I met other masters, they said to me that I have to breath near normally. So, I am a little bit confused. Also, do you have any exercises to train my breathing? (I heard that there ar plenty in Goju Ryu style, I'm a shotokan guy).



Very good question. I am not an expert like the others members. So their answers are better than mine.
IMO the simple answer is:
It has been my experience that breathing out is good for breaking boards, etc.
For sparing your body knows best. Just breathe normally. 

A breathing exercise I like, is to get in a horse stance and breath like you do in yoga.
1. Inhale pushing the stomach out filling the bottom of the lung, keep breathing in until the lungs are full.
2. Exhale  then bring the stomach in to get as much air as possible.
3. Repeat for as long as you can stay in a good horse stance.
Because your mind is on your breathing you will be able to stay in a horse stance longer than normal.


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## dvcochran (Jul 16, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> Does conscious breathing control have any effect on it? I'd wonder if a reflex reaction of some sort - perhaps a continuing response from the lung injury - is at work.


Good question. Maybe it is purely mental satisfaction. I believe that thinking about breathing in helps so it is a valid question. I don't doubt that the breathing variance is more about my conditioning.


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## JR 137 (Jul 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> The blocked breath shows up in several arts (I've seen it in Daito-ryu videos). With most grappling that have a standard breathing style, they tend to focus on exhale during execution, with a harder "finish" if you want to throw harder. More focus on breathing shows up on the ukemi (receiving the throw), where a kiai is often used to get the breath out at the moment of impact.
> 
> In punching arts that have a standardized approach, you're more likely to see breathing over a combination/series, rather than within a single technique. That's because a single punch rarely is your whole sequence (whereas a single throw, once you start the entry, often is). So there tends to be a focus on getting inhale/exhale to span areas of movement, using kiai (which has some of the same benefits as blocked breath, and can be used just after blocked breath) often is only used at certain "climax" points, where they're intending a near-maximum strike or some sort of finish. You can see this in many kata, in the phrasing that's used.


If I remember correctly, as its been a while, breathing rate is controlled by the amount of CO2 in the blood. The brain stem (medulla oblongata) detects the lowered pH (due to carbonic acid, which comes from the increased CO2 concentration) and signals the diaphragm to breathe it out more forcefully. That could somewhat explain your source’s basis.

But then you’ve got the flip side of that - yawning. Again, it’s been a while since my undergrad A&P classes; yawning is caused by a buildup in carbonic acid too. When we get tired (sleepy, not exertion) our breathing slows down. It slows down a little too much and too soon. Our body responds by yawning - the relatively slow deep breath in followed by the deep exhale. If breathing was solely about the brain telling the diaphragm to get the CO2 out, we probably wouldn’t do the long breath in, right? Next time you yawn, pay attention to the breath in. It shouldn’t take too long for that opportunity, as yawning is contagious in a sense, and someone just mentioning it gets people yawning. I’ll bet you probably yawned a few times just my mentioning it here (and my boring you with this post). Also, scientists have observed the yawning being “contagious” in a ton of different animal groups.

Another interesting tidbit - yawning is common during relatively long breaks in physical activity. Like when a coach takes too long explaining something in between drills. It’s not because he/she is boring the team; I’ve had a few coaches say “am I boring you guys?” It’s because the breathing pattern is out of synch with the demands of the body and is catching up.

Another stupid thing I was thinking just last night: my daughter was doing yoga with her basketball team. Sitting there watching and hearing the yoga instructor telling them to breathe in and out, why did that mess with my breathing? Why is it our breathing pattern gets messed up when we hear people talking about breathing? Or even when we just think about our breathing? How many times did your pattern get changed a bit by my rambling?

It’s all pretty messed up thing if you really think about it. Something as simple as breathing.


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## _Simon_ (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> If I remember correctly, as its been a while, breathing rate is controlled by the amount of CO2 in the blood. The brain stem (medulla oblongata) detects the lowered pH (due to carbonic acid, which comes from the increased CO2 concentration) and signals the diaphragm to breathe it out more forcefully. That could somewhat explain your source’s basis.
> 
> But then you’ve got the flip side of that - yawning. Again, it’s been a while since my undergrad A&P classes; yawning is caused by a buildup in carbonic acid too. When we get tired (sleepy, not exertion) our breathing slows down. It slows down a little too much and too soon. Our body responds by yawning - the relatively slow deep breath in followed by the deep exhale. If breathing was solely about the brain telling the diaphragm to get the CO2 out, we probably wouldn’t do the long breath in, right? Next time you yawn, pay attention to the breath in. It shouldn’t take too long for that opportunity, as yawning is contagious in a sense, and someone just mentioning it gets people yawning. I’ll bet you probably yawned a few times just my mentioning it here (and my boring you with this post). Also, scientists have observed the yawning being “contagious” in a ton of different animal groups.
> 
> ...


I DID yawn multiple times you just talking about it, and I DID notice that strangely long inhale section. Never knew any of that about yawning, always just thought it was a mystery that nobody knew what its deal was.

Mind blown! I'd rate that as informative if only Tapatalk allowed!


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## jobo (Jul 18, 2019)

dvcochran said:


> Have you found information on aerobic stage breathing vs. anaerobic stage breathing? It may just be me but when in the anaerobic level I think more about the breath in, until as you mentioned there is a strike or kick etc... There has to be some kind of natural balance in there somewhere with lung capacity, chest/abdominal muscles, and mental discipline.
> Both of my lungs were punctured and collapsed but I do think they are a factor now.


you maybe misunderstanding the bodies energy systems slightly  your anaerobic capacity is mostly concerned with your type one( fast twitch) fibres and gives you instant strength with out the need for oxygen, when that energy is depleted you do indeed switch to your aerobic capacity. however if what ever your doing isn't intense enough to recruits type one fibres( or you haven't developed you ability to recruit them,) then your running on type two fibres from the start and they have no( or very little) anaerobic capacity and your oxygen dependent from the start

the energy sources is then the oxygen that you carry in your blood stream, if your lungs can replaces that and remove the co2 at the same rate its being used( produced) then your breathing stays the same, if not then both your breathing any your heart beat increase.  that's really were good breathing technique comes in useful, if you can maximise the oxygen transfer to the blood stream BEFORE you blood stream is depleted then it takes much much longer before you start gasping for air ,damaged lungs may or may not make that more crucial you than others

I was having a chat with two middle cyclists who were showing off at the ridiculous heart rates they achieved whilst cycling up hill, and couldn't grasp the concept that hitting 200 bmp For an extended period, in your 60s was a) a really bad idea and b)not an indication of how fit there were, but an indication of how unfit they were


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## punisher73 (Jul 18, 2019)

As my instructor would say, "Focus on the exhale, God will take care of the inhale".  His meaning, is that if you try and hold your breath as long as you can eventually you will have to expel all that air and naturally take an inhale, you can't do any different.  

There are different breathing patterns for different types of things you want to accomplish.  A good instructor will be able to teach you these.  There is a breathing pattern for a larger power strike versus a flurry of strikes.  

There is an easy method taught to military/police etc. called "tactical breathing" (called triangle breathing by others) in which you breath in for a count of 4, hold it for 4, exhale for 4 and then repeat.  It lowers stress and starts to re-establish the logical portion of your brain and overrides the reptilian part. 

https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmcp...ional-wellbeing/Combat-Tactical-Breathing.pdf

Square breathing is done for a different purposes, and is very similar to the triangle breath, but you hold "empty" for a count of 4 before the inhalation starts.  A very good book on breathing methods is from Systema called "Let every breath: Secrets of the Russian Breathmasters" by Vasiliev


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> If I remember correctly, as its been a while, breathing rate is controlled by the amount of CO2 in the blood. The brain stem (medulla oblongata) detects the lowered pH (due to carbonic acid, which comes from the increased CO2 concentration) and signals the diaphragm to breathe it out more forcefully. That could somewhat explain your source’s basis.
> 
> But then you’ve got the flip side of that - yawning. Again, it’s been a while since my undergrad A&P classes; yawning is caused by a buildup in carbonic acid too. When we get tired (sleepy, not exertion) our breathing slows down. It slows down a little too much and too soon. Our body responds by yawning - the relatively slow deep breath in followed by the deep exhale. If breathing was solely about the brain telling the diaphragm to get the CO2 out, we probably wouldn’t do the long breath in, right? Next time you yawn, pay attention to the breath in. It shouldn’t take too long for that opportunity, as yawning is contagious in a sense, and someone just mentioning it gets people yawning. I’ll bet you probably yawned a few times just my mentioning it here (and my boring you with this post). Also, scientists have observed the yawning being “contagious” in a ton of different animal groups.
> 
> ...


I recently saw some updated information on yawning. It's true it used to be thought to be tied to oxygenation, but there's no detectable rise in oxygenation following a yawn, so they're back to not being quite sure what the purpose is. I think one school of thought is that it's about blood flow (I've forgotten the explanation behind that).

I do know that anytime someone mentions breathing patterns, I catch myself half-consciously lengthening my breath. I'm the same way when someone talks about jumping - I find my leg muscles tensing like they would if I were about to jump. Apparently, I think everything is a command.


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## JR 137 (Jul 18, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I recently saw some updated information on yawning. It's true it used to be thought to be tied to oxygenation, but there's no detectable rise in oxygenation following a yawn, so they're back to not being quite sure what the purpose is. I think one school of thought is that it's about blood flow (I've forgotten the explanation behind that).
> 
> I do know that anytime someone mentions breathing patterns, I catch myself half-consciously lengthening my breath. I'm the same way when someone talks about jumping - I find my leg muscles tensing like they would if I were about to jump. Apparently, I think everything is a command.


Like when you see someone get hit in the nuts and you instinctively kinda protect your own


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## JR 137 (Jul 18, 2019)

On another breathing related note...

For the longest time, we were told to stand upright and put our hands behind our head when we’re out of breath instead of hunching over with our hands on our thighs. The idea was you’re opening up your chest and are able to get more oxygen in. Perfectly logical.

Studies have shown the hunched over with hands on your thighs actually helps you get your breathing under control more effectively. Who would’ve thunk the instinctual thing to do is actually the best thing to do?


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## Buka (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> On another breathing related note...
> 
> For the longest time, we were told to stand upright and put our hands behind our head when we’re out of breath instead of hunching over with our hands on our thighs. The idea was you’re opening up your chest and are able to get more oxygen in. Perfectly logical.
> 
> Studies have shown the hunched over with hands on your thighs actually helps you get your breathing under control more effectively. Who would’ve thunk the instinctual thing to do is actually the best thing to do?



I've never actually heard that said before. But as I think about it, I have seen a couple people do it, but very few. 

I sure do know about the hands on the thighs position.


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## JR 137 (Jul 18, 2019)

Buka said:


> I've never actually heard that said before. But as I think about it, I have seen a couple people do it, but very few.
> 
> I sure do know about the hands on the thighs position.


We were told to do this:





Who would’ve thought this is actually proven better?




As far as not a lot of people doing the first one, well, I guess human instinct is to do the second one. The first one was really drilled into us by my wrestling coach. Except during matches. He drilled acting like you’re not tired at all.


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## Buka (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> We were told to do this:
> View attachment 22365
> 
> Who would’ve thought this is actually proven better?
> ...



I would have done that if a wrestling coach taught it to me. No question.

You know I hate wrestlers, right? Because you people never get tired. I so hate that.


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## JR 137 (Jul 18, 2019)

Buka said:


> I would have done that if a wrestling coach taught it to me. No question.
> 
> You know I hate wrestlers, right? Because you people never get tired. I so hate that.


You should say “they” because I haven’t been on the mat in too long 

It’s not that they don’t get tired, it’s that it’s ingrained to not show it. But compared to a lot of other people, yeah, they don’t get tired. The conditioning they’re put through is horrendous.


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## Buka (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> You should say “they” because I haven’t been on the mat in too long
> 
> It’s not that they don’t get tired, it’s that it’s ingrained to not show it. But compared to a lot of other people, yeah, they don’t get tired. The conditioning they’re put through is horrendous.



In my day my endurance was as good as anyone I've ever met.....except for wrestlers. I was blessed with circumstance that allowed me to train and study all day.....and that causes your endurance to naturally sky rocket. But damn wrasslers'.....sons o'


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## Hanshi (Jul 18, 2019)

Very interesting topic.  I was taught breathing control almost 60 years ago by my Japanese karate instructor and continued practicing ever since.  It is my habit to kiai with any technique; I couldn't stop doing this if my life depended on it.  A full breath isn't needed but a deep one is.  As a long time Buddhist monk, I've spent vast amounts of time breathing deep while in meditation.  This will get one use to putting the breath deep into the abdomen.  And for martial arts the breath is deep but not full.


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 18, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> We were told to do this:
> View attachment 22365
> 
> Who would’ve thought this is actually proven better?
> ...


Yeah, we were taught that (hands up high), too. I still catch myself doing it.


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## _Simon_ (Jul 19, 2019)

JR 137 said:


> On another breathing related note...
> 
> For the longest time, we were told to stand upright and put our hands behind our head when we’re out of breath instead of hunching over with our hands on our thighs. The idea was you’re opening up your chest and are able to get more oxygen in. Perfectly logical.
> 
> Studies have shown the hunched over with hands on your thighs actually helps you get your breathing under control more effectively. Who would’ve thunk the instinctual thing to do is actually the best thing to do?



Wow really... yeah it feels so much more comfortable to hunch. I know in Kyokushin we were always told hands behind the head, stand up straight, perhaps because it was tougher . But I think it was trying to train us to consciously slow our heart rate by ourselves through controlling our breath. Meh, dunno!


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## Gerry Seymour (Jul 19, 2019)

_Simon_ said:


> Wow really... yeah it feels so much more comfortable to hunch. I know in Kyokushin we were always told hands behind the head, stand up straight, perhaps because it was tougher . But I think it was trying to train us to consciously slow our heart rate by ourselves through controlling our breath. Meh, dunno!


I think there was (in general, and this probably translated to Kyokushin practice) the idea that hunching compressed the diaphragm. I'd be interested in the mechanics that counter that thought now.


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## punisher73 (Jul 19, 2019)

I haven't been able to find the studies that people have quoted, just that authors are citing this and saying it is better.

I am gonna channel Jobo on this one. 

What type of breathing was tested?  If we note that most people aren't breathing properly in general and after sprinting/exercise etc. and are breathing upper chest versus "lower abdomen" then this makes sense.  Try it for yourself.  Bend over with hands on your knees and try to breath using the upper chest like most people do.  It is actually very hard to do and forces you to use lower abdominal breathing, which we already know is better for you.  Standing up with hands behind your head also facilitates using your whole lungs and "opens up" the rib cage.  So, if you take a trained athlete who knows proper breathing methods, then which way is better?  I have also been told that part of the reason for the hands on the head was so you could keep moving, bending over with your hands on your knees wasn't because of breathing, it was because you just went full out exhertion and then stopped moving which wasn't good.  So, the default position to keep the airway open for breathing and moving was hands up.

Lots of different things would go into that than I am finding to make the statement which one is better overall.


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## _Simon_ (Jul 19, 2019)

gpseymour said:


> I think there was (in general, and this probably translated to Kyokushin practice) the idea that hunching compressed the diaphragm. I'd be interested in the mechanics that counter that thought now.


Hmm yeah that may be a factor actually hey.. and makes sense if you want to breathe deeply and properly, you don't want that!


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## _Simon_ (Jul 19, 2019)

punisher73 said:


> I haven't been able to find the studies that people have quoted, just that authors are citing this and saying it is better.
> 
> I am gonna channel Jobo on this one.
> 
> ...


Yeah fascinating.. a few factors here, I wonder which trumps the other... perhaps what's optimal depends on what activity you're doing..


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## jobo (Jul 19, 2019)

punisher73 said:


> I haven't been able to find the studies that people have quoted, just that authors are citing this and saying it is better.
> 
> I am gonna channel Jobo on this one.
> 
> ...


I agree entirely with your in-depth analysis, but just to add I have neither done either of those, I've never felt the need to be hunched over nor put my hand behind my head, I just stand there or more likely keep moving slowly while panting.

it's common to see soccer players hunched over in that manner at the final whistle, but only the loosers, winners always seem to have enough energy to dance about  do a lap of honour,so a strong psychological aspect I suspect. it's very much the body language of defeat/ disappointment


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