# Universal Pattern....



## marshallbd (Nov 22, 2003)

I see the patch that is worn on some Kenpoists uniforms and was wondering if I could get a detailed, in depth description of the Universal Pattern and what it symbolizes or represents.....


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## Brother John (Nov 22, 2003)

It displays linear and circular paths and can be used to help teach a particular path or as 'inspiration' to help you think about your available trajectories.

There's a lot more to it than just this...
but perhaps this is a start for you.

Your Brother
John


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## Brother John (Nov 22, 2003)

Grandmaster Paul Mills created the one we use in the AKKI...
It's very good for pondering as well.
Your Brother
John


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## marshallbd (Nov 22, 2003)

Thanks...


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## phoenix (Nov 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by marshallbd _
> *Thanks... *



Do you by chance study with Mr. Coppock in CS?  Just curious...I lived in Springs for a while before moving to Denver.

Sean


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## marshallbd (Nov 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by phoenix _
> *Do you by chance study with Mr. Coppock in CS?  Just curious...I lived in Springs for a while before moving to Denver.
> 
> Sean *


 No I dont study at all right now.....  I started to study Kenpo with mr Pick for a couple of lessons and then due to personal circumstances I stopped going.  Then I started with a Tracy's instructor here in the Springs and he had to close his school.  Then I tried again with a young second black in Woodland Park but had to stop after 2 months due to a complete ankle reconstruction.  Now I'm moving to West Virginia and if all goes well I'll start again in Jan or Feb with Mr Seig and Tess at thier school.


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## marshallbd (Nov 22, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Brother John _
> *Grandmaster Paul Mills created the one we use in the AKKI...
> It's very good for pondering as well.
> Your Brother
> John *


 How many different incarnations of the universal pattern are there?


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## satans.barber (Nov 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Brother John _
> *Grandmaster Paul Mills created the one we use in the AKKI...
> It's very good for pondering as well.
> Your Brother
> John *



Those swirly bits round the outside are interesting, the first thing that popped into my head was Returning the Storm...are they often pointed out to be paths of weapons? I know the AKKI has a proper weapons curriculum that's all?

Ian.


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## Brother John (Nov 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by satans.barber _
> *Those swirly bits round the outside are interesting, the first thing that popped into my head was Returning the Storm...are they often pointed out to be paths of weapons? I know the AKKI has a proper weapons curriculum that's all?
> Ian. *



Good eyes. Yes it could very well be the patterns of motion used with weapons. Take a look at the picture I've attached below... that's the cover from the 1st level club manual (This picture and more descriptions can be found at the www.akki.com web-site). Note the patterns there. This is a very simple rendition and has more advanced theories behind them. Note the similarity.
BUT: That's just a start.
The 'swirls' in the AKKI Universal pattern/patch show some of the patterns of motion (and theories of motion) used in the practical/dynamic expression of AKKI Kenpo Karate. This is not limited to man made weapons, but also the natural weapons (aka; hands, feet, knees, elbows...etc.). There's more to it than just motion patterns too. 
It's deep stuff. I hope to do more than just scratch the surface of it in my future progress.
ALSO: IF you want to talk/chat with an AKKI Kenpo 7th degree Black Belt who REALLY knows this stuff and is renouned for his weapons ability and instruction... try contacting Mr. Derek C. Ence. He's a first generation student of GM Paul Mills and is on Martial Talk as "DCEnce". He's a very helpful man.
I'd direct you to Mr. Mills himself, he's always eager to help people understand better, but he's an astoundingly busy man!!! 

Your Brother
John


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## jfarnsworth (Nov 23, 2003)

Again, do a search in the technical section on the universal pattern. If my memory is correct Rainman did an exceptional job explaining the universal pattern.


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## marshallbd (Nov 24, 2003)

How many different versions of the universal pattern are there and what are the differnces....?
 Also does any one have a clear version of the universal pattern I can print out on my computer.....I am going to incorporate it with a tattoo I already have of a dragon and am going to add a tiger with the pattern as a center piece /background


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by marshallbd _*
> Does any one have a clear version of the universal pattern I can print out on my computer.....
> *


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)




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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

:shrug:


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)




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## Robbo (Nov 24, 2003)

Isn't that last one 45 deg out of position?

Rob


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Robbo _*
> Isn't that last one 45 deg out of position?Rob
> *


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

another


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

yet......


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)




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## phoenix (Nov 24, 2003)

Has anyone ever seen the 3-dimensional universal pattern...it has several spheres all interwoven...I have a copy of it at home on my computer, but not here.  Also, does anyone know if the 3-dimensional pattern was designed/commisioned by the SGM, or was it someone's personal work?

Just curious.  I can post it later tonight if anyone is interested.

Sean


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## Michael Billings (Nov 24, 2003)

*http://kenpo-texas.com/universe.htm *

And here ya go:


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## phoenix (Nov 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *http://kenpo-texas.com/universe.htm
> 
> And here ya go: *



Yep, that's the one I have...anyone know for sure the origin of this particular pattern?  Just curious.

Sean


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## Goldendragon7 (Nov 24, 2003)

> _Originally posted by phoenix _*
> Anyone know for sure the origin of this particular pattern? Sean
> *



Infinite Insights Book IV, Chapter 8, page 167
:asian:


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## Rainman (Nov 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Infinite Insights Book IV, Chapter 8, page 167
> :asian: *



What good does that do?  Half need a 6 page dissertation on how to open the book  When did the remedial material take over around here anyway?  



:asian:


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## Michael Billings (Nov 25, 2003)

--Moving to W. Virginia and starting American Kenpo with Seig and Tess.  

Never exposed to it before Rainman.  So it is not remedial for him.

-Michael


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## rmcrobertson (Nov 25, 2003)

I'm not sure I see what the problem is with attaching a footnote. I wish folks would do that more often. 

I see though, that the Universal Pattern doesn't seem to be quite so universal...is that the issue?


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## Brother John (Nov 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> *What good does that do?  Half need a 6 page dissertation on how to open the book  When did the remedial material take over around here anyway?
> :asian: *


Are you still upset about that Rainman?
((you might consider that just because no-one accepted your assignment doesn't mean that no-one got the point))
Why do you call the universal pattern 'remedial'? Just wondering.
Do you not see it as an important tool?
thanks
Your Brother
John


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## phoenix (Nov 25, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Goldendragon7 _
> *Infinite Insights Book IV, Chapter 8, page 167
> :asian: *



Sheesh..guess its time for me to re-read Infinite Insights...been a while.

Thanks!

Sean


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## satans.barber (Nov 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Michael Billings _
> *http://kenpo-texas.com/universe.htm
> 
> And here ya go: *



There's the program I wrote to spin one of them around in 3D here:

http://www.satansbarber.co.uk/computing/programs/programs.htm

You can turn bits on and off and spin it around and stuff, there's a text file in the zip to tell you the controls.

I've got a 2D one here somewhere as well but it's not finished, I should probably finish that really...

Ian.


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## sumdumguy (Dec 5, 2003)




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## Michael Billings (Dec 5, 2003)

The more I studied it the deeper and more 3-Dimensional it appeared, especially the spheres within, and the degree variations.

Thanks,
-MB


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## marshallbd (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> *What good does that do?  Half need a 6 page dissertation on how to open the book  When did the remedial material take over around here anyway?
> 
> 
> ...


 Rainman........Sorry to waste your time with "Remedial" material.....  I was asking questions.....and trying to learn....I have been looking for the Insights books locally but have not found them and am sceptical about internet purchases.  
And I am pretty sure that it won't take a "6 Page dissertation" to get me to open the book once I have it........


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## Seig (Dec 11, 2003)

Beau,
Once you get up here and start training, we'll get you hooked up.


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## Rainman (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by marshallbd _
> *Rainman........Sorry to waste your time with "Remedial" material.....  I was asking questions.....and trying to learn....I have been looking for the Insights books locally but have not found them and am sceptical about internet purchases.
> And I am pretty sure that it won't take a "6 Page dissertation" to get me to open the book once I have it........ *



My apologies.  I would never intentionally say something so disouraging to a neophyte.   And if you look more closely you will see that it was directed at people that have the books and should know the material or at least know of the material.  Most of the concepts I discuss here are advanced and in no way would I expect people under black to know the II's inside and out.   I do expect instructors to though, otherwise finding a point of reference and a place to begin dialogue doesn't exist.  

 It takes a lot of time and a good teacher to guide you through the books.  Thirteen years later some re reads are much better than the first time around.

Good Journey


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## Goldendragon7 (Dec 11, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _*
> My apologies.  I would never intentionally say something so disouraging to a neophyte.   And if you look more closely you will see that it was directed at people that have the books and should know the material or at least know of the material.  Most of the concepts I discuss here are advanced and in no way would I expect people under black to know the II's inside and out.   I do expect instructors to though, otherwise finding a point of reference and a place to begin dialogue doesn't exist.
> 
> It takes a lot of time and a good teacher to guide you through the books.  Thirteen years later some re reads are much better than the first time around.  Good Journey
> *



I agree with what you said, but you do need to be a little sensitive that many have not had the instruction or guidance that you may have had with many areas of our  versatile Art.  

Many still have not even been able to get the books we speak of and of the old crowd, unfortunately many have only glanced thru much of the material, only paying attention to the areas that interested them at the time.

We share an unusual desire to savor every word and expand them even further to make them into a reality.  That is what we need to share with our brothers and sisters on these forums and not some of the other tasteless and useless dialogues.

But, that is just my opinion.... I could be wrong.
:asian:


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## marshallbd (Dec 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rainman _
> *My apologies.  I would never intentionally say something so disouraging
> 
> Good Journey *


 Thanks....


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## marshallbd (Dec 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Beau,
> Once you get up here and start training, we'll get you hooked up. *


 I start up the 24 foot Uhaul and head out that way on Wed the 17th....   I should be contacting you in January to get started.


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## Rob Broad (Dec 12, 2003)

Good luck with the move.  Hopefully it is very uneventful.

Always remember there are no dumb questions only dumb-a$$ed answers from people who think they are better than others.  Seig will make sure you are taken care of.


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## marshallbd (Dec 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rob Broad _
> *Good luck with the move.  Hopefully it is very uneventful.
> 
> *


 Thanks.....I'll be away from the forum for awhile but as Arnold says   "I'll Be Back"!


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## KenpoTess (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by marshallbd _
> *I start up the 24 foot Uhaul and head out that way on Wed the 17th....   I should be contacting you in January to get started. *



Excellent Beau  Let's hope the weather behaves~!!

Good luck~! We look forward to working you out *G*


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## Goldendragon7 (Dec 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by marshallbd _*
> I should be contacting you in January to get started.
> *



Then we can show you your trip mapped out within the Universal Pattern!:rofl:


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## Seig (Dec 16, 2003)

With luck, the floor should be padded by the time you get here.


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## FranciscoNegron (Today at 12:11 AM)

I know this is an old old thread, but as the symbol is a cool concept that I appreciate, would it be wrong if I were to study Kajukenbo or a non-EPAK system and wear that patch? The symbol in itself, would it be fair to say, it’s universal for all Kenpo styles?


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