# Where did you learn your knife techniques?



## Lisa

Were your knife techniques self taught/videos?  Are they part of your regular MA cirriculum or did you attend seminar(s) and learn them from there?  Was is a mixture of all of the above?


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## tshadowchaser

A mixture of experimenting with training partner and frommy instructor and a few seminars.  I must say that training with a live blae taught me much about fear and what i was really willing to try as opposed to learning technique X aginst a training blade


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## KenpoTex

Defensive or Offensive?

In kenpo we have empty-hand techniques to defend against someone who's attacking with a knife.  For offensive technique (with the exception of a couple of seminars); I'm basically self-taught.  A lot of the material that I train now is the result of working the material presented in books such as _Kill or Get Killed_ by Col. Rex Applegate; _Cold Steel_ by John Styers, and _Get Tough_ by W.E. Fairbairn.  I've also got several training DVD's from Datu Kelly Worden (these are great and I appreciate them even more because I was able to attend one of his seminars) and one called Reverse Edge Methods which is available from Shiv Works (excellent for extreme close-quarters).  Of course, the seminars and DVD's also cover some defense.


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## michaeledward

Raining Lance
Glancing Lance
Piercing Lance
Thrusting Lance
Entwined Lance

Are all part of my schools curriculum for First Black.

Run away is my own, hopefully, common sense technique.


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## Lisa

michaeledward said:
			
		

> Raining Lance
> Glancing Lance
> Piercing Lance
> Thrusting Lance
> Entwined Lance
> 
> Are all part of my schools curriculum for First Black.
> 
> * Run away is my own, hopefully, common sense technique.*



Probably the best technique out there and can be taught to virtually everyone.


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## Lisa

tshadowchaser said:
			
		

> A mixture of experimenting with training partner and frommy instructor and a few seminars.  *I must say that training with a live blae taught me much about fear and what i was really willing to try* as opposed to learning technique X aginst a training blade



When you were learning with the live blade, was it during a seminar partnered with a total stranger or on your own?  How long after you learned techniques did you start training with the live blade?


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## Flatlander

My blade skills came as an integral part of the curriculum (Modern Arnis).  I had a trainer in my hand the second day.


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## lhommedieu

Part of my regular curriculum as San Miguel Eskrima is mostly espada y daga and Estacada has a knife curriculum.  Both arts influenced my half of the following article ("Espada y Daga Arts of San Miguel Eskrima and Pekiti Tirsia Kali, p. 110):

http://www.fmadigest.com/Issues/special-editions/special-edition.html

Best,

Steve Lamade


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## Jimi

I learned my knife skills from two similar arts. I learned from an Inosanto Associate in 1983 at the University Of Maryland. I call it Inosanto Kali/Arnis/Eskrima. I also learned from a Kenpo Instructor around the same time, He called it Arnis. In 1993 I got exposure to Silat (Bukti Negara, Mande Muda & MaPhilIndo- Inosanto stuff) I worked with a Barong & Karombit. Fun stuff, but I wouldn't share it with just anyone, this stuff ends fights quickly. As I have read on these Forums, Just my 2 cents worth. PEACE


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## Blindside

My first exposure was through a fellow kajukenbo student who also had dabbled in Inosanto-blend kali, after that I pursued it through video, seminar, and private lessons.  Most recently I took up Pekiti-Tirsia Kali to give me an organized approach to the subject as well as regular access to a qualified teacher.

Lamont


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## bushidomartialarts

application of open-hand techniques to knife work

formal training in gojushorei weapons system

lotsa videos


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## Flying Crane

My kenpo material has a number of techniques designed to defend against a knife.  Most of them are questionable at best, if not downright worthless and dangerous so I have eliminated them from my practice.


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## kamishinkan

Blade training (Defenses) came as a part of my martial art training (along with "sermons" on, "In defending against knives, prepare to be cut!". It seems that the blade defenses I learned are technically sound, but variables in a "real" situation can lead to anything! I hope I never have to defend against one, but if I do, I hope I am a little more prepared than I was!


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## stickarts

My techniques came from GM Remy Presas, some from Dan Inosanto, some from American kenpo, and some from various seminars i have attended.


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## Drac

Master Julies Melegrito at a the last 4 Combat Hapkido seminars....


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## Airyu@hotmail.com

This could be a long list!

Blade work was taught during most of my martial arts curriculums in some form or another:

Art of Combat
Budo Taijutsu
Pekiti Tirsia
Modern Arnis
Floro Fighting Systems
Sayoc Kali
AMOK! tribal art of the blade
Various forms of Silat
Doce Pares

Lot's and lot's of sparring!

But don't neglect any other source of training such as videos and books, as there is always something to glean from all sources and arts. 

Train Hard it is the Way!

Guro Steve L.

www.Bujinkandojo.net


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## Franc0

Pentjak Silat Serak
Military Combatives (American & Russian)
some AMOK!
Pekiti Tirsia
The best kinifework I ever learned was from an elderly gentleman named Nestor Reyes. He was this old Filipino grocery bagger at a supermarket I frequented who noticed my schools t-shirt one day and asked about it. The next day he came over to see what we do, and he ended up coming over 3 days a week for the next several months and gave me some extensive knifework instruction. When I asked him what style this knifework was, he simply said "effective". 

Franco


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## Mcura

My JKD instructors spend a lot of time on knife play, and the Medieval European instruction devotes a third of the curriculum playing with and against the dagger.  I've also attended a handful of workshops and seminars, and recently took up research on video (Modern Knives Video Magazine).


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## green meanie

For me it started with bayonet training in the service. I also received a little training while I studied Kenpo. Compared to others who _REALLY _study weapon arts I'm terrible at it, but it's a start.


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## sgtmac_46

Lisa said:


> Were your knife techniques self taught/videos?  Are they part of your regular MA cirriculum or did you attend seminar(s) and learn them from there?  Was is a mixture of all of the above?



A mixture of all of the above.


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## Tez3

From Royal Marines while wating for weather to clear at the RM Para Centre in Devon, over a couple of years. Techniques are mostly offensive though.


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## Hudson69

I went to a knife course but, as a bow to American Kenpo, a proper hold was shown as well as how to employ empty hand techniques while carrying a blade (or two?).  Additionally my Army Combative has some knife fighting to it but it was never really focused on so much as mentioned. Budo Taijutsu has some as well but they seem kind of flashy so I never take a look at them from time to time but it isnt something I think I would use.  My Defensive Tactics has some knife defense techniques but they are very basic (not bad, just simple).


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## jarrod

we covered knife fighting in the marine corps.  it was also part of the curriculum for my combat jujitsu shodan.  it was an optional part of training in shingitai jujitsu, & was mostly derived from fairbairn/sykes/applegate combatives.  i also took a few private lessons in italian dagger from a fencing master, & dabbled in fencing for 6 months or so.  i also picked up a lot of info from an excellent booklet "put 'em down, take 'em out: knife fighting techniques from folsom prison" by don pentacost.  

jf


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## lklawson

Tez3 said:


> Techniques are mostly offensive though.


IMO, when it comes to knife that's the best route.  "The best Defense..." and all that jazz.  As the knife becomes larger, it gives more defensive options such as parries, stop-cuts, and binds.  Bowie Knife size is about where this starts but if your opponent is going to give you meaty attacks you can hit some sa-weet intercepting/stop-cuts on the wrist (IOW, if he's a novice).

IMO, most knife v knife is about how to cut/thrust without getting hit yourself.  It's not fencing, but it's not *NOT *fencing either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## lklawson

jarrod said:


> i also took a few private lessons in italian dagger from a fencing master, & dabbled in fencing for 6 months or so.


From who, if you don't mind my asking?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## jarrod

a guy named mark wickersham from five rings fencing.

jf


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## Drac

Also attended a couple of police seminars with W.Hock Hochiem and spent a lot of time working with knives...


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## wushuguy

my knife training came mostly from class and then exploring what learned in class with classmates or friends "out side the box" as well as some tournaments. seminars too.

I had some books and videos, but those are just for entertainment, cuz what learn in class is much more complete than what people put on videos or books.


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## MA-Caver

My own experience in learning blade work was a combination of self-taught, experienced street fighters and various MA-ists of various belts (above greens) and friends who had learned from the military... also actual (street) fighting with blades... I've some scars to show for them... but damned glad to be alive.


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## wushuguy

MA-Caver said:


> My own experience in learning blade work was a combination of self-taught, experienced street fighters and various MA-ists of various belts (above greens) and friends who had learned from the military... also actual (street) fighting with blades... I've some scars to show for them... but damned glad to be alive.


good to know you're still around. experience is one of the best teachers.


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## mook jong man

I was lucky enough to have Mr Raymond Floro living only 10 minutes drive from me , and my friend and I were taught by him in his garage .

He taught us his own system called FFS Floro Fighting System , we trained with him for about a year.

He is one of the most nicest and skilled blokes I have ever met , when I first met him I said " What do I call you " and he said " Call me Ray" .


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## Tensei85

I learned from the Baat Jaam Dao in Wing Chun (Depending on what knife is being referenced...)

I also trained for five years give or take in Arnis (under the Presas system)
Utilized Knife(s), Stick(s) & Empty hands. 

And then in CMA (Bei Tong Long) we utilize a Double Dagger form (Seung Bei Sau) but its really just a form & applications to the form not an entire knife fighting system as seen in a lot of FMA and or others.

To answer the question more specifically I trained Knife techniques in both a seminar setting (1 or 2 seminars, can't remember but was a special seminar in Wing Chun, of course also continued the training in a reg. setting as well) 

Also in a normal training setting as part of the curriculum including W.C. haven't tried to learn any from vid's though, check out a couple of youtube vid's on occasions however but thats the extent of it.


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## Langenschwert

Mostly taken from the works of the medieval and renaissance masters, particularly German and Italian. This is for all permutations of dagger vs. unarmed, dagger vs. dagger, and dagger vs. longer weapons. I don't spend a lot of time on researching the dagger materials on my own, so I've learned most of my knife stuff from my instructor who has done the leg work on manual research in that area. My specialty is longsword. The nice thing is that the dagger stuff dovetails nicely with the armed grappling parts of longsword fencing, so when I'm shown something, it is at least similar to something I've already researched or been taught.

Incidentally, Jay Vail's book on medieval and renaissance dagger fighting is especially good.

Best regards,

-Mark


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## Erik Petermann

Piper knife combat, here in Cape Town, in the early nineties. A reverse grip method, predicated on "ripping" with the tip of the knife to "soften up" the enemy and stabbing to finish things off. Used by criminals for two purposes:
1. Robbing people and 2. Fighting against opposing gangs.

Against an unarmed opponent, obviously, just about anything works. Against an experienced fellow criminal, who is similarly armed, it gets a bit more complicated. 

I have also attended a few FMA seminars (Abner Pasa, Tom Sotis, Alfred Plath etc) and learnt the basic WW2 Combatives knife work from my WW2 combatives instructor, Harry Snowise.


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## Bill Mattocks

Julia Childs.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov2000/nf20001121_471.htm



> [FONT=arial,helvetica,univers]*Q: You say knives are very important in cooking. Do you have any advice on that?
> A:* Yes, you've got to have good knives that will sharpen and that can cut. You should be able to do all the dog work very fast. You need a great big chef's knife, a medium one, and a paring knife. You could get along with three. I have dozens because I'm a knife freak. [/FONT]


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## TigerCraneGuy

Who cares about pointy sticks?

Fruit is much deadlier!!:ultracool


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## HerbM

A lot from *Systema* (Ryabko Systema from Vlad Vasiliev and instructors he has trained) but lately and mostly from AMOK! by Tom Sotis, both seminars and classes with instructors he has trained, as well various videos from AMOK!, Felix, Valencia (excellent), Ron Balicki & Diana Lee Inosanto, ColdSteel, Gabe Suarez/Marc "Craft Dog" Denny, etc...

AMOK! focuses on knife defense and knife counters to attacks.

The "Die Less Often" video from Suarez and Denny is superb.

We finally have a regular AMOK! and Combatives group meeting each week in Austin so we are getting to train regularly now.

-- 
HerbM


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## Avenger2616

HerbM said:


> A lot from *Systema* (Ryabko Systema from Vlad Vasiliev and instructors he has trained) but lately and mostly from AMOK! by Tom Sotis, both seminars and classes with instructors he has trained, as well various videos from AMOK!, Felix, Valencia (excellent), Ron Balicki & Diana Lee Inosanto, ColdSteel, Gabe Suarez/Marc "Craft Dog" Denny, etc...
> 
> AMOK! focuses on knife defense and knife counters to attacks.
> 
> The "Die Less Often" video from Suarez and Denny is superb.
> 
> We finally have a regular AMOK! and Combatives group meeting each week in Austin so we are getting to train regularly now.
> 
> --
> HerbM


 Finally got around to poking my head in...
I've been working in Amok! for almost a year, though I've been reading and watching Gabe, Tom and Crafty's material for at least 5 years when I can get hands on it.  The fact that Central Tx has such a huge number of combatives guys like Steve and Gus in Kileen, you and the others in Austin- I'm hugely grateful for the ability to train and expose myself to new arts and ways of thinking!


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## David43515

lklawson said:


> IMO,
> IMO, most knife v knife is about how to cut/thrust without getting hit yourself. It's not fencing, but it's not *NOT *fencing either.
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


 
Kirk, That`s actually kinda profound.


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## lklawson

David43515 said:


> Kirk, That`s actually kinda profound.


Thanks.  Re-reading it, I worry that it sounds a little zen-wannabe, but I happy to know that people can understand my meaning despite my sloppy delivery.  

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## Gaius Julius Caesar

mook jong man said:


> I was lucky enough to have Mr Raymond Floro living only 10 minutes drive from me , and my friend and I were taught by him in his garage .
> 
> He taught us his own system called FFS Floro Fighting System , we trained with him for about a year.
> 
> He is one of the most nicest and skilled blokes I have ever met , when I first met him I said " What do I call you " and he said " Call me Ray" .


 
My friend, Tom Furman in Ft. Lauderdale has worked with Ray and I have seen some films, great stuff.


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## Gaius Julius Caesar

My step dad was the president of a motorcycle club so I "learned" some things about knives at an early age.

As a teen my instructor showed me some knife stuff but other than that it was books and self and partner practice here and there.

 When I came to the old Quantico Dojo, the Sempai Jim Tirey was a very skilled knife artist. He was in the Military and trained in differnt systems and with differnt people around the World, Military, Para Military and Civillian.

 I know he had rank in Kuk Sul Won and Kuntao Silat, along with having trained in American Bowie style, and he was friends with Bob Kasper and Pukolsky and trained with them. Rick Fike as well.
 He also trained with Dave Wink (Pekiti Tarsia/ Silat) for years untill his death 3 years ago.

 So I studied with Jim for about 10 years and I have trained with Wink. My partner trains with him regularly.

 Kinfe is a big part of what I do, it is my favorite weapon.
It is the primary weapon we teach at our school.


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## harold

In my Kenpo school, we had a guy who taught Kali so I started there then continued to read, and study through videos as there are not any FMA schools or teachers in my area,just a lot of sport oriented TKD schools.


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## Shin71

They are taught as a part of our Army Combatives, it isn't all just ground fighting but in one of the karate's styles I took they had some knife stuff (Kenpo maybe) and then I took a knife fighting class at Ft. Carson that was supposedly based on Arnis.  The Combatives was the most direct.


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## WC_lun

I learned through my kung fu training and a couple of bad experiences outside of the keun.


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## altc

mook jong man said:


> I was lucky enough to have Mr Raymond Floro living only 10 minutes drive from me , and my friend and I were taught by him in his garage .
> 
> He taught us his own system called FFS Floro Fighting System , we trained with him for about a year.
> 
> He is one of the most nicest and skilled blokes I have ever met , when I first met him I said " What do I call you " and he said " Call me Ray" .


I trained with Ray as well! Nice one! He is by far the best intstructor (and user) of the knife I have ever come across. Amazing, can make you feel absolutely useless at times... The best thing about training one on one with him (yes, in his garage) is that he spars at YOUR level! But just slightly ahead to make you dig deep. Amazing ability. Fantastic drills. Fantastic system.

Hey mook jong man, next time you train with him, tell Ray that Adam who writes at that site www.lowtechcombat.com said hello! No doubt he will laugh his head off. Nicest guy...

Oh, by the way, for this thread... I train mostly via one on one with Ray Floro. Began by doing some seminars with him then moved onto private lessons. Unfortunately I no longer live in Sydney so cannot train with him anymore... Only his DVDs.


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## mook jong man

altc said:


> I trained with Ray as well! Nice one! He is by far the best intstructor (and user) of the knife I have ever come across. Amazing, can make you feel absolutely useless at times... The best thing about training one on one with him (yes, in his garage) is that he spars at YOUR level! But just slightly ahead to make you dig deep. Amazing ability. Fantastic drills. Fantastic system.
> 
> Hey mook jong man, next time you train with him, tell Ray that Adam who writes at that site www.lowtechcombat.com said hello! No doubt he will laugh his head off. Nicest guy...
> 
> Oh, by the way, for this thread... I train mostly via one on one with Ray Floro. Began by doing some seminars with him then moved onto private lessons. Unfortunately I no longer live in Sydney so cannot train with him anymore... Only his DVDs.


 
I haven't been able to train with him for quite a while , moneys been pretty tight.

But I still practice all the stuff I was taught , either training solo or when I'm lucky enough to have a partner we mostly go unarmed against the knife using the _universal shield_ or some knife vs knife sparring.

The thing about Ray is that there is absolutely no telegraph in his movements and he has an uncanny sense of distance.

You try your hardest to lunge in and stab him but he just makes you miss by millimetres and then makes you pay dearly for that mistake with a solid shot straight into the grill of the hockey helmet as your still trying to recover your balance .

Then to add insult to injury you have to listen as he laughs his head off maniacally , I don't know what got to me the most , getting the training boffer to the face every three seconds or the laughter lol.


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## altc

HAHAHAHAHHA

That is so true! Boffers to the face cage lol and then him laughing and then you! Soooooo what happens. Great learning environment. Great guy. He is so good at what he does. The really sobering thought is imagine if there were no grills/helmets and that padded boffer was a sharp piece of steel that was slamming into your face... devastating...

sounds like you have had some good sessions with him. Good times.


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