# A knife would be useful...



## Invisibleflash (Aug 3, 2019)

I keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand. So I go with neck carry. Neck carry would be better for this job I think.




 
What do you advise if no knife? Kubaton also is illegal in NYC. Maybe a tactical light used as a kubaton, but I think you don't have enuf time to fool around.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 3, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand. So I go with neck carry. Neck carry would be better for this job I think.
> 
> View attachment 22392
> What do you advise if no knife? Kubaton also is illegal in NYC. Maybe a tactical light used as a kubaton, but I think you don't have enuf time to fool around.


I think unless it's already in your hand at that point, it's not much help. The best strategy is decent ground skills to stop it from getting to that point.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 3, 2019)

nah, your neck knife would be locked in a position you couldn't move it.  So unless its exactly in the right position when you get dragged down to the floor and put in a rear naked choke its probably not going to be of much use and then you can just get neck cranked and pretty much killed pretty easily from that choke anyway. 

And not getting in that situation would be the most helpful advice.     I think your pretty much done or just buying time if you are in a rear naked choke.


Edit: a knife and torch can be useful in the events leading up to that situation but not much in the cited situation though.


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## Invisibleflash (Aug 3, 2019)

I'm old and not going to do much as a grappler. That is why I prefer weapons. I guess as soon as you hit the ground you gotta get knife out then. How long do you have in the choke before lights out?


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 3, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I'm old and not going to do much as a grappler. That is why I prefer weapons. I guess as soon as you hit the ground you gotta get knife out then. How long do you have in the choke before light out?



I think 3 seconds, thats the shortest choke/strangle you get.      and its more complex than that, if the person controls your arm your weapon is useless, there is a art to fighting with weapons in all situations.     

you need to learn to grapple to grapple with a weapon well.


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## Gerry Seymour (Aug 3, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I'm old and not going to do much as a grappler. That is why I prefer weapons. I guess as soon as you hit the ground you gotta get knife out then. How long do you have in the choke before lights out?


Depending who you ask, up to about 6 seconds if it's correctly applied. If you can influence it some (with some grappling knowledge) you might turn it into a partial choke, which takes longer, at least in theory.

The reality is that there are some positions you simply cannot expect to recover from, unless you have an overwhelming skill advantage and they make a key mistake.


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## Flying Crane (Aug 3, 2019)

What is a neck carry?  And if the guy gets you into a choke hold like in the picture, why would he have not discovered (and probably taken) your knife if it is somewhere in the vicinity of your neck?


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## Bill Mattocks (Aug 3, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand. So I go with neck carry. Neck carry would be better for this job I think.
> 
> View attachment 22392
> What do you advise if no knife? Kubaton also is illegal in NYC. Maybe a tactical light used as a kubaton, but I think you don't have enuf time to fool around.



The word 'tactical' gives me a rash.  Ugh. 

Carrying knives is serious business.  Unless you're an expert, and damned few are (I've met a couple from MT in real life who are), you'd best avoid carrying the means of your own demise on you.  I'm not, so I don't.


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## CB Jones (Aug 4, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> What is a neck carry?  And if the guy gets you into a choke hold like in the picture, why would he have not discovered (and probably taken) your knife if it is somewhere in the vicinity of your neck?



I'm guessing a sheath knife hanging from a chain around your neck.

I got one once and quickly realized it's a bad idea.  Basically a knife that is in perfect position to be pushed into your chest as you unsheath it.


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## CB Jones (Aug 4, 2019)

Bill Mattocks said:


> The word 'tactical' gives me a rash



I prefer "Tacticool"

I just ordered new Tacticool backpacks for my unit.  funny...if I had requested regular backpacks the department would probably have said no....but since they are tacticool....well that is a whole different thing...lol


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Flying Crane said:


> What is a neck carry?  And if the guy gets you into a choke hold like in the picture, why would he have not discovered (and probably taken) your knife if it is somewhere in the vicinity of your neck?


Neck carry is having a sheath on a cord or a chain hanging around your neck. Odds are, someone putting you in a chokehold hold wouldn't discover it. However, as it is a weight at the end of a cord, it does swing freely under your shirt. It is considered an undercover, or last ditch weapon. But the idea of searching around under my shirt for a weapon while someone is attacking me has no appeal to me. When I carry a weapon, I want its position to be consistent, so I can practice my draw smoothly.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand


  Curious, what tactical folder can't be opened with one hand?


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## CB Jones (Aug 4, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Curious, what tactical folder can't be opened with one hand?



And what makes it Tacticool


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> And what makes it Tacticool


Well, it's either black or camo. That goes without saying.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand. So I go with neck carry. Neck carry would be better for this job I think.
> 
> View attachment 22392
> What do you advise if no knife? Kubaton also is illegal in NYC. Maybe a tactical light used as a kubaton, but I think you don't have enuf time to fool around.


  Not enough time to use a blunt instrument, but enough time to access, and open a knife that requires both hands to open? Interesting.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 4, 2019)

frank raud said:


> it does swing freely under your shirt.


Wearing it under your top sounds uncomfortable as hell, its probbly one of the to avoid ways to conceal carry a knife for the most part.   Kind of like the story for inside the waitband pistol carrying, where you would attach the pistol to your belt via string or its holster and drop it down your trouser leg to make it harder to see.   Basically its the knife equal of the "i don't need it right now" type of carry.  




frank raud said:


> Not enough time to use a blunt instrument, but enough time to access, and open a knife that requires both hands to open? Interesting.



Semi agree, some you can buy only need one hand to open, or you can alter them to make them open when you draw them, i think you can do that with some spydocos, or only seen it for them, you basically put a zip tie on it and trim it and then if you pull it out the tie will catch on your pocket and open your knife as you draw it.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> also knife can't be opened with 1 hand.





Rat said:


> Semi agree, some you can buy only need one hand to open, or you can alter them to make them open when you draw them, i think you can do that with some spydocos, or only seen it for them, you basically put a zip tie on it and trim it and then if you pull it out the tie will catch on your pocket and open your knife as you draw it.


 OP specifically states he cant have a one hand opening knife.  Having tried the "Ghetto wave" with zip ties, I wouldn't depend on it, and it is very hard to explain that you have a knife for cutting fruit and opening boxes when you have modified it that way. Get a waved knife if you can, if it's legal where you are.


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## Buka (Aug 4, 2019)

CB Jones said:


> I'm guessing a sheath knife hanging from a chain around your neck.
> 
> I got one once and quickly realized it's a bad idea.  Basically a knife that is in perfect position to be pushed into your chest as you unsheath it.



I had that very discussion once with a buddy of mine. His counter was "Oh, as opposed to yours in your front pocket that's about two inches away from your junk".

Yeah, he won that discussion.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Rat said:


> Kind of like the story for inside the waitband pistol carrying, where you would attach the pistol to your belt via string or its holster and drop it down your trouser leg to make it harder to see


 Are you referring to the OSS string holster?


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 4, 2019)

frank raud said:


> Are you referring to the OSS string holster?



Not that i know of.    I meant a literal string attached to the belt so you can either let the pistol ride across your leg or something, i don't know how historically accurate the example is.    

Also thats a interesting thing to look into anyway, didnt know you could make a holster out of string.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Rat said:


> Not that i know of.    I meant a literal string attached to the belt so you can either let the pistol ride across your leg or something, i don't know how historically accurate the example is.
> 
> Also thats a interesting thing to look into anyway, didnt know you could make a holster out of string.


A holster made of string can be an option, but putting a holster on the end of a string to drop down your pants is stupid.


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## Buka (Aug 4, 2019)

Rat said:


> Kind of like the story for inside the waitband pistol carrying, where you would attach the pistol to your belt via string or its holster and drop it down your trouser leg to make it harder to see.   Basically its the knife equal of the "i don't need it right now" type of carry.



That's one heck of a visual, that is. What's that, like a crime scene down your pants?

And my God, if we continuously practiced quick draw - we might very well go blind.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 4, 2019)

frank raud said:


> string to drop down your pants is stupid.



i could agree, i think it was one of those folk stories, its not really real but its a legend.


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## frank raud (Aug 4, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I keep my tactical folder in my pocket most of the time. In NYC can't have any part of knife show, also knife can't be opened with 1 hand.


  Any reason you don't carry a sub 4" fixed blade?


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## pdg (Aug 12, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I guess as soon as you hit the ground you gotta get knife out then. How long do you have in the choke before lights out?



So there's been 3 seconds quoted, and 6 seconds.

My personal opinion is that it's an irrelevant amount of seconds...

Arm yourself with a pen then get someone who knows what they're doing to get you in any sort of effective choke, like they mean it.

Now try getting the pen lid off and marking them. At all. You'll be disoriented and fumbling unless you're used to being there - it's not the same as sitting on the sofa for 3-6 seconds playing with a knife...

Going for their choke arm is no good, you're just as likely to stab yourself in the neck. You can't effectively reach their head or torso, you might get a leg.

But winging their leg is so very unlikely to make them stop, it's more likely to just make them choke harder.

The only sensible and reliable defence (apart from being a good grappler) is not to get in that position at all.


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## Deleted member 34973 (Aug 12, 2019)

You could carry more than one knife. At least in Washington State. But I agree with most of the comments. A decent ground game, with developing ground striking, would be beneficial.


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 12, 2019)

Invisibleflash said:


> I'm old and not going to do much as a grappler. That is why I prefer weapons. I guess as soon as you hit the ground you gotta get knife out then. How long do you have in the choke before lights out?


You're from NYC. If you prefer weapons and want to carry weapons that are most effective my advice would be to move to PA, which is not that far from NYC and carry a gun. Unlike in NYC, in PA you can carry that sort of stuff provided you get a carry permit.
I don't know if you can carry a fixed blade knife in NYC but they're definitely more effective than folding knives. 
As I said, your best bet would probably be to move somewhere such as PA.


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## pdg (Aug 12, 2019)

PhotonGuy said:


> You're from NYC. If you prefer weapons and want to carry weapons that are most effective my advice would be to move to PA, which is not that far from NYC and carry a gun. Unlike in NYC, in PA you can carry that sort of stuff provided you get a carry permit.
> I don't know if you can carry a fixed blade knife in NYC but they're definitely more effective than folding knives.
> As I said, your best bet would probably be to move somewhere such as PA.



If you're considering going to the extreme of moving, why not go that tiny bit further and move somewhere that doesn't make you feel like you need to arm yourself to leave the house?


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## PhotonGuy (Aug 12, 2019)

pdg said:


> If you're considering going to the extreme of moving, why not go that tiny bit further and move somewhere that doesn't make you feel like you need to arm yourself to leave the house?


Ask the OP, he's the one that wants to carry weapons.


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## frank raud (Aug 13, 2019)

PhotonGuy said:


> You're from NYC. If you prefer weapons and want to carry weapons that are most effective my advice would be to move to PA, which is not that far from NYC and carry a gun. Unlike in NYC, in PA you can carry that sort of stuff provided you get a carry permit.
> I don't know if you can carry a fixed blade knife in NYC but they're definitely more effective than folding knives.
> As I said, your best bet would probably be to move somewhere such as PA.


New York state allows concealed carry, New York City does not.


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## Deleted member 39746 (Aug 13, 2019)

pdg said:


> Arm yourself with a pen then get someone who knows what they're doing to get you in any sort of effective choke, like they mean it.



Shock knives are good if they are lawful where you live, you can dial them to 0 or maximum, they at least work to scare the bajebus out of you and not want to get cut, or to work through pain. 

i would also argue those  knives you can apply to ink work better for this just as a better analog, but budgeting is budgeting a pen works sufficiently.


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## Oni_Kadaki (Sep 11, 2019)

Wait, kubotons are illegal in NYC? Since when? I knew my Communist home state was bad, but DAMN!


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 11, 2019)

Oni_Kadaki said:


> Wait, kubotons are illegal in NYC? Since when? I knew my Communist home state was bad, but DAMN!


As far as I am aware, they are not illegal. I looked in the past for NYC, but could not find anything suggesting kubatons are illegal-that may have changed though. As for NY as a state, here is what I keep bookmarked on it.

Article 265 Penal Law Firearms | Dangerous Weapons | NY Law

The relevant section for this would be 





> *S 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.*
> A  person  is  guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
> degree when:
> (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart  gun,  electronic
> ...


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Sep 11, 2019)

kempodisciple said:


> As far as I am aware, they are not illegal. I looked in the past for NYC, but could not find anything suggesting kubatons are illegal-that may have changed though. As for NY as a state, here is what I keep bookmarked on it.
> 
> Article 265 Penal Law Firearms | Dangerous Weapons | NY Law
> 
> The relevant section for this would be


I believe that the addition for new york state is specifically for guns and knives, and regarding knives, you cannot have a blade more than 4 inches long. I believe gravity knives were recently un-illegalized for NYC, which (I believe) means that the small pocketknives/swiss army knives that were previously illegal are now legal. 

I don't think I said "I believe" enough, so just to make sure. I believe all of the above. I should be fact checked by anyone planning to carry a knife or other weapon into NYC.


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