# Why Judo is Not Popular in America



## jeffbeish

Long, so get your pillow and follow me...   I have transcribed a letter that was sent to me some time in the early 1970's that may help define some of the faults American Judo had, and apparently still has:


Much study, work and worry has been spent trying to find out why judo is not accepted by the American public as a spectator sport.  In solving this problem one must use a common sense approach.  I have listed below many of our problems and some common sense solutions along with some humorous thoughts on each.

TOURNAMENTS LAST TOO LONG: It is an accepted fact that all popular forms of entertainment last 3 hours or less.  We must either limit the number of players or increase the competitive areas to the point where we can get within the 3-hour time limit.  How many spectators would attend a football game or any athletic event that lasted 12 hours?  We are not asking our spectators to be entertained we are asking them to survive an endurance contest.

THE SPECTATORS DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON: We have at least 4 different sets of rules for judo competition and these are modified by local tournament directors to suit the players or themselves.  We must get one uniform set of rules and make sure every tournament is run by these rules.  Imagine, if you can, two boxers meeting in the center of the ring and the referee telling them that in this contest kicking, biting, and jumping out of the ring is acceptable; or how about a swimming meet where the chief Judge notifies all the swimmers that if they kick their feet, they are disqualified. We have the IJF rules so why not use them with the few changes needed to utilize the following ideas.

TOO MUCH TIME IS SPENT ON ARRANGING THE JUDO-GI: No other sport makes such a big issue of neatness during competition.  Imagine, the gun has sounded, the runners are off for a 100-yard dash and suddenly someone yells MATTE.' Everyone stops and straightens their uniform; or how about the gymnast who is in the middle of doing a full hand stand on the horizontal bar, and (2) suddenly comes the great cry, MATTE: Or the golfer about to try a 30 yard putt for a par 3 and there it comes again, MATTE: straighten you're your uniform.  I have designed a new type of jacket, pants, and belt that will stop this foolishness.

YOU CAN'T TELL THE COMPETITORS APART BECAUSE OF THEIR UNIFORMS: We have tried using ribbons or belts to identify one or both competitors but this is not satisfactory.  We must have a satisfactory method to clearly identify each competitor.  Why not require each competitor to have a white 
gi and a black gi?  Imagine; two football teams all dressed in identical uniforms. Almost every sport has recognized the need for different colored uniforms; we in judo should be willing to give up the purity of white for the spectator' 5 interest.

THE TYPE MAT BEING USED IS UNFAIR TO ONE OF THE COMPETITORS: I believe we 3hould standardize the playing surface for all judo competition.  This should include the size, shape, thickness, density and covering.  Imagine:  swimming meet held in a back yard plastic pool or in oil instead of water, or a baseball game with the bases only 20 feet apart, or a football game on a sawdust field that is only 50 yards long.

TOO MANY BOUTS AT THE SAME TIME: Many large tournaments have 3 or more contest areas and all of them are running at the same time.  It is nearly impossible to see the best competition because you are watching another contest.  Imagine the world Heavyweight, Middleweight, and Lightweight boxing championships all being decided at the same time in 3 separate rings, or all of the golfers in the US open putting for the same holes at the same time.

THERE IS ONLY ONE CHAMPION SO WHY HAVE WEIGHT CLASSES: We carefully weigh each competitor and place him in a weight class.  We carefully keep the competitors in the 6 divisions and then when the first place of each division is determined we let them fight and end up with one over-all champion. Why can't we be big enough and proud enough to honor 6 separate champions? Why must we make 5 of these individuals feel that they are second best? Let's do away with the overall championships.  Imagine; the different boxing champions fighting each other to have one overall champion, or each of the winners of the national swimming contest all having one race to see who is the overall champion, or wrestling champions fighting for an overall championship.  I know that many of you feel the best Judoka will win and once in a while the little guy wins, but generally the bigger competitor is victorious. But regardless of the outcome, the overall championship leaves 1 champion and 5 sub-champions.  An additional problem is the heavy weight division and the open division; this is nothing more than 2 unlimited weight classes.

NOW HOW ABOUT JUDO AND ITS VILLIANS:

Villain Number 1: The Tournament Referee

This all-powerful master over all his subjects is beyond dispute or correction. He can call a full ippon a waza-ari or nothing and we cannot change or amend his call.  He can be completely prejudice in his call or decision and we cannot correct his error.  He can make a completely honest or dishonest decision and we are stuck with it.  He can call a half-completed throw a full ippon and no one can change his call.  Regardless of how honest or fair the referee may be, he can not see a technique from more than one angle or position at a time and this often prevents him from making the correct call or decision. The new IJF rules have helped but much more needs to be done. 

Villain Number 2: The One Ippon Win

This little villain can cause a great national champion to lose to a very poor but lucky opponent.  One competitor can throw his opponent for a full ippon but because of a mistake on the part of the referee, he may not get any credit or only part of the credit he should receive; he can also throw his opponent for a waza-ari and load him up twenty times, but if he should slip and the referee decides it is now time to say ippon all is lost for this valiant competitor.  Our present system of a single ippon being the completion of a Judo contest often fails to determine the best competitor.  A well-qualified competitor could make one mistake and be eliminated by a far inferior opponent.  A well-qualified and unbiased referee could make a small mistake of course1 by calling an ippon when something less should have been awarded and the reverse of this is also true.  It should be realized that under the present officiating system, an unqualified or biased official could create a great hardship on a competitor.  The present system of a single ippon ending a contest leaves our spectators without the excitement that could be generated with an improved system of competing and awarding wins.  If we had a pre-set time period for each match, a coach could train his competitors for a contest and the spectators would know how long each of their favorite player will be on the mat.

Villain Number 3: The Corner Judge

The use of one or two corner judges is often helpful but quite often this system is misunderstood and misused.  As we all know, many judges will vote the same way his fellow judge does.  Also the judges have no authority to make any form of call or award.  Very often a judge will go to sleep because he has so little to do.

Villain Number 4: The Five Penalty Scoring System

The present system of scoring under the 5 penalty point system often leaves a tournament with no finals and no chance to announce to the spectators that the contest now going is for the first, second, or third places.  We must be able to build each tournament to a climax if we want to excite spectators.

For all of the above reasons and for many others, I believe that we should implement a new judo competition system.  I hereby propose the following system for this purpose.

1. Scoring:  Utilize the double elimination system.

2. Competition:  All contest or bouts will be for a pre-set time period, i.e. 3,4,or 5 or more minutes.

3. Referee:  The referee will not award ippon or waza-ari for throwing techniques.  He will call osae-komi and shine-waza, and kansetsu-waza.  He will be responsible for the safety of the competitors.  He will stop and award the contest to the winner if one contestant wishes to default or if in his opinion one competitor is far superior to the other, based on the demonstrated performance during that contest.  The referee will collect judges score sheets at the end of the allotted contest time while competitors arrange judogi and based on the judges scores he will declare the winner of that contest.

4. Judges:  A total of 4 judges will be used, they will be located, one on each of the 4 sides of the contest area, (just outside of the safety area).  Each judge will record points gained or lost by each competitor based on the following scale.

a. An effective off balancing of an opponent 1 point
b. Off balancing opponent to the point of making him put his hand or knee on the mat 2 points
c. Loading opponent for a throw but being unsuccessful in completing the throw 3 points
d. Throwing an opponent with any degree of completion less than a waza-ari 4 points
e. Throwing an opponent for a waza-ari 6 points
f. Throwing an opponent for an ippon 10
g. Securing a hold-down to the point of osai-komi being called by the referee 1 point
h. Holding opponent for:
                            	5 seconds 2 points
10 seconds 3 points
15 seconds 4 points
20 seconds 5 points
25 seconds 6 points (wazi)
30 seconds 10 points ( ippon)
i. Being awarded an ippon for shime waza 10 points
j. Being awarded an ippon for kansetsu waza 10 points

Points will be deducted from a competitors total for violation of the rules.

1.	Stepping out of the contest area 2 points
2.	Forcing opponent out of contest area 2 points
3.	Putting hand or fingers inside of opponents sleeve or pants leg 
4.	Striking opponent without malice 4 points
5.	Disarranging Judo uniform 2 points contest 

It should be realized that the referee will be fully responsible for the safety of the contest and will have the authority to stop the contest and award the match for unsportmanship conduct, repeated violations or injuries.

JUDO-GI

The pants will be designed in such a way as to prevent them from falling or being pulled off during a contest.

The jacket will have belt loops starting on the side of the jacket and continuing to the other side around the back of the jacket.  This would prevent jacket from coming out of the belt.  The belt will be made with 3 pieces or sections of valco locking material.  This would prevent the belt from coming untied.

I have given you my ideas, now--how about your ideas?  Why not try this system, and then give me your opinion.

Rick Mertens
USJA Executive Secretary


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## jeffbeish

BTW, Rick Mertens was built like a bowling ball with hands and feet.  It was nearly impossible for him to be thrown down.  I know since I tried for 30 years!  He was an excellent technician at Judo.  I watched him many times in shiai and it was art. He wasted no time dispatching opponents and taught me, too late, to attack just as you heard the referee say mae.   (Hajimae is a call to begin).  Hum; hajimae maste also means nice to meet you.  It is not an exact translation, but it will do. In other words, Rick was ready to grab the opponent and throw him down right then and there the instant the referee called to begin the contest.
Unfortunately my friend and sensei Rick Mertens passed away a few years ago.  I miss him dearly and think about him everything I hear the word "Judo."


I remember in the old days when we would try to intimidate the opponent by holding our arms up and out, then yelling loudly, ooooooosh.  Then we would put on a show for the next opponents waiting on the edge of the mat.  Robey Reed was known to do this in high fashion.  We all loved to watch him content, but it was all show for his unsuspecting opponent  but we knew Robey was and is the fastest Martian Artist any of us had ever seen.  He would tant the oppoinent, and some said he would wisper something to the opponent just before the technique was applied!

One of my favorite tricks was look for my next opponent on the sideline then try hard to throw the opponent I was with over on the next one, then look down with a big smile and finger pointing  youre next chump.  Of course, that only worked once  

In the letter Rick wrote to us he points out several things that now have been changed and improved upon since he wrote that way back when.  But, Judo contests are still too long and boring for spectators  even for Judo players.  While we always wanted to keep within the bounds of the Martial aspect of Judo contest, we also needed to pay some attention to retention.  That is, to draw in spectators, to show them we could win, and wet the appetite of the younger sports minded people to join in all the fun.  By the 1964 Olympics Rick, Robey and others were a bit too old to participate.  But, I always dreamed what may have been!


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## Kirk

Jeff, I'm not a student of Judo (although you make me want to
start studying) so I can't really comment one way or the other
on your ideas.  They sound solid, and logical to me though!  
Couple quick questions:

Do you think that a resurgence is possible, since grappling is 
involved, which is so popular thanks to NHB competitions?

Do you feel that Judo could be a life long pursuit, and that those 
that have physical problems now, were a result of not enough 
safety equipment?  Most get into m.a. study and want a life long
pursuit.


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## arnisador

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Do you think that a resurgence is possible, since grappling is
> involved, which is so popular thanks to NHB competitions?
> *



I think this is where 'Kosen Judo' comes in.


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## jeffbeish

> _Originally posted by Kirk _
> 
> *Jeff, I'm not a student of Judo (although you make me want to
> start studying) so I can't really comment one way or the other
> on your ideas.  They sound solid, and logical to me though!
> Couple quick questions:
> 
> Do you think that a resurgence is possible, since grappling is
> involved, which is so popular thanks to NHB competitions?
> 
> Do you feel that Judo could be a life long pursuit, and that those
> that have physical problems now, were a result of not enough
> safety equipment?  Most get into m.a. study and want a life long
> pursuit. *



Honestly, I think Judo is too hard for today's American youth. Judo is like work.  If some Judo guys would get into pro wrestling, like back in the 1940's and 50's, then it may interest a few people.  Mel Bruno, who started the Air Force physical conditioning units and a 5th dan was a wrestler.  Jene LeBell the same.   A couple Judo players even wrestled bears and fought boxers.    Too much work for this geneation.

Judo, in my days, was a way of life.  We now refer to them as "judo bums."  From what I've seen only about 1 or 2% of the people who get into the Martal Arts stick with it for any length of time.  Even the die hards like me finally get tired of the pain and disappointment at the attitude and walk away.  But, for many of us we still sneak onto a mat.


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## jeffbeish

IMHO, we Judo players of old must have misinterpreted what our sensei was trying to tell us.  We in this country failed miserably to spread our Judo.  After I walked away from the chaos of organized Judo (COJ) I started to blame myself for some of this perceived failure.  But, after thinking about it later it was obvious that me, a small fish in the big lake, couldnt do a thing to change things.  So many times our Judo tournaments ended up a complete waste of time for many of the competitors.  

I saw competitors eliminated from tournaments who never even got to their first match because of over worked, and in some cases incompetent or corrupt officials.  Most of the competitor would have to wait for hours to even fight their first or next match.  It was not only boring but also counterproductive for everyone, including spectators. Some of us saw this as evidence that Judo was not advancing in this country.  We would see the same people win these championships year after years and it seems like they would have to die off for fresh blood to creep into the winners circles.  At first glance you may ask, whats wrong with great champions winning all the time? Well, that is not he problem: The problem is where are the protégées of these champions and their students.  In Japan it was almost unheard of to see the same people win National tournaments for more than a couple of years.

Some of us spoke many times that if we were going to advance our art/sport then we must find the best players to compete in the national events.  But, to do this it takes money.  One problem was that the spectator was never considered.  We should have changed the way Judo competition to accommodate the specter, but still maintain the objective of the competition. It would not have been all that much trouble to do.  We should have taken lessons from other countries and from the entertainment industry as well.   Judo events were just too long and frustrating for everyone, and the public just had no idea what was going on, so why even attend a Judo tournament.  Another thing was that in many of our national events every Judo player on Earth would show up to compete and this just compounded the problems of keeping people interested in watching  these event would last for days before the finals would come up.

We needed to have many more elimination tournaments before the nationals, but the COJ bosses would never pop up their head from the sand long enough to see this problem.  The AAU back then would virtually steal money from Judo and sneak it into swimming events or other sports leaving Judo out to dry and consequently we couldnt have more tournaments in the grass roots to send out best to the nationals.  What we needed was to rid ourselves from that ancient playground for the rich, the AAU, and organize Judo they way that would have benefited everyone. Of course, we know why that didnt come about.  Many of us preached to the big wigs that Judo could very well be a spectator sport. Because it was much more thrilling than arm wrestling, wrestling, weight lifting, and other sports to watch  especially boring are those tiny gymnasts prancing around on a mat doing what many of us old grumpy guys consider as plain old dancing!

But, who am I to think such evil thoughts?  Well, I am a NASCAR fan who, before retiring and being too poor to spend several hundred dollars to sit in our assigned seats at Daytona and be a watcher in the largest spectator sport in this countrys history  stock car racing. For the past five years 15 out of 17 NASCAR events attracted more spectators that all those other sports combined. Now I ask you, how many of those redneck style folks would you catch watching Olympic gymnastics? :asian:


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## Yari

I'm not a judo person (if one can be called that), but I favor the ipoon system. Just for the reson you dislike it. A person loses if he's open and the other can use it. I like to look at it more like the oppenent was able to catch the moment, even with a better fighter. That I think , is alot of the budo way: seize the moment when it's there. I can see that this is borring for the non-MA, but I like the idea.

Concerning the other issues, I don't know. but that's because I never sat at a judo tournament, and don't know how that will effect it.

/Yari


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## jeffbeish

Well, we first learned in the old days that "ippon" really meant kill the opponent or that the opponent was killed - or something to that effect.  I will not argue its merits one way or the other.  Some of what I have posted here is for discussion and not necessary my beliefs so much as options that we talked about for decades.  We tried to keep a balance between sport Judo and Art Judo.  

But, the international Judo people bastardized our sport with changes that I, along with many others, destroyed the Martial Arts aspect of Judo.  Many years ago we would use corner judges only in the final rounds of a shiai (contest).  Corner judges would use criteria for making a decision to who won when two opponents came to a draw.  We would score then using koka, yuko, and such, then it would help to decide who was the better player.  Now, these are referee calls and are too subjective IMO.  After that a new strategy took place with Judo payers; that was to run out the clock after one were to gain the slightest score.  Before they did not know the "score" and tended to go at it harder.

Also, they started issuing warnings and negative scores for stalling!  In the old days players in Martial Arts would stalk their opponents to find weaknesses and then plan strategy, then strike that the best opportunity to defeat the opponent.  How can one do this when they are forced to fake hundreds attacks to keep form loosing for stalling? It was just too subjective for referees and judges.

As for the length of Judo tournaments, well, one would have to stay and watch one or even better, officiate in one.  I dare say that even in professional baseball the officials get a little punch drunk after so many innings.  A flung bottle may even hit an umpire.  The difference is that Judo referees do not have the luxury of protective gear.

But, you have points and it is good that at least someone read this stuff and discusses it.


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## arnisador

> *
> But, you have points and it is good that at least someone read this stuff and discusses it.*



I certainly enjoy reading it, but the discussion of scoring is too technical for me to contribute too! I do remember playing judo in the early 1980's with people bent way over to avoid being thrown and finding it very frustrating--it seemed like stalling to me.


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## jeffbeish

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> 
> *
> 
> I certainly enjoy reading it, but the discussion of scoring is too technical for me to contribute too! I do remember playing judo in the early 1980's with people bent way over to avoid being thrown and finding it very frustrating--it seemed like stalling to me. *



The scoring was based on how much "impetus," or in other words how much nice was made when the opponent hit the floor  That is not entirely true, but you may get the gist.  

The score of IPPON is called when someone wins by throwing an opponent on his or her back with impetus, or to choke someone unconscious (subjective), or get an arm bar, or hold him or her down for 30 seconds.  Two scores of WASA ARI for throwing or 25 seconds hold down.  There were penalties, and the judges had their guidelines in case of s spit decision.  Basically that is he way it was.  Now the referee does most of the calling and the judges have power, but I am out of that loop and can't answer it correctly.

When I refereed, and could stay awake, my opinion of each of the above was radically different from many others, they were too, and so on.  The national organizations began to train people to do officiate. That happened after 40 years of my Judo life so I just went on doing it wrong.  To me it got too complicated.  Since Judo was a Martial Art it seemed to me that the rules should be short and sweet - a technique had to be applied so that one had total control over another person - in case one required to stick the other with a sharp object or kill them with a "Judo chop."  Just love that phrase.

I think they run people in the system so fast these days that most of them never practice ground techniques, a little choking, but hardly arm locks.  Why?   An arm lock it just about the fastest way I know of to win. One only had to watch how some of these people reach out to the opponent to understand this.

When in Japan and Okinawa many of the contests were called kohaku shiai or red-white contests.  That is where two dojos would line up on opposite sides and fight each other, one at a time, until the last man stood.  One side was red and the other white and that carried over because contestants wore a red or white sash even today in shiai.  Now they even have one wear a white Judogi and the other blue.  The blue idea started back when we had B&W TV and would show up better on TV.  It evolved from there.


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## tmanifold

I too like the ippon system. Mainly because, if I can hold on against a better opponent I can win. Regardless, of how many yuko or Koka he has I still have a chance.

I have a hard time understanding it some times because I was a wrestler and I am used to adding up points. But I love the Idea of one Ippon taking all. Go big or go home, thats my motto (it cost a few medals in my wrestling days but ahhh well).

One thing I am not to keen on is the 10 sec rule for Ne waza. 10 secs isn't enough time to setup techniques sometimes.  Also I think turtling for a long period of time should be called passivity just like stiff arming during tachi waza.

Tony


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## MountainSage

It appears to me that sport judo has the same problem I see in sport TKD.  Point are awarded based on opinion not fact.  In TKD you don't even have to get touched for your opponent to win.  This problem must be resolved before mass acceptance of any sport.  remember ice skating has the same problem.


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## sammy3170

I think it is a lot simpler than you make out.   As a child you enjoy wrestling and what have you and you are very open to learning new things no matter how scary they seem.  This makes it a lot more fun to learn to breakfall and be thrown and wrestle.

As an adult there are certain things you don't do and feel uncomfortable about doing.  Wresling on the ground with the same sex is one.   Being thrown is another as it is a very unnatural feeling unless you are used to it.   

When confronted with a potential physical encounter everyone can punch and kick so going to a Karate class is easier as it refines things you are somewhat comfortable with doing where as Judo forces you to become comfortable with a lot more.  

The same can be said for Hapkido and Aikido but when self defence is the primary objective it is easier to put aside ones fears. Now I'm not saying you can't defend yourself with Judo but due to its olympic status people see it as a sport and there are far easier sports to pick up than Judo.

I practiced Judo for a lot of years b4 I changed to the striking arts and really enjoy it so don't take anything I say as a detractor from Judo

As far as tournament rules go I believe Mike Swain tried to start Pro Judo in the US with altered more viewer friendly rules with little success so maybe that isn't the problem.

Cheers
Sammy


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## MountainSage

sammy, you make some very good points.  I guess this isn't a problem for me because I was a high school and AAU freestyle wrestler in my younger days.  In my present style of TKD, I have a problem with grabing my opponent and wanting to throw or wrestle them down to the ground.  I am build for judo or Yudo( i'm in korean arts) 6'2" and 300 lbs with a center of gravity lower then I would prefer.  There are no judo schools or I have not found an teacher in Eastern Oregon, USA, so I work on hapkido throws.


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by MountainSage _
> 
> *sammy, you make some very good points.  I guess this isn't a problem for me because I was a high school and AAU freestyle wrestler in my younger days.  In my present style of TKD, I have a problem with grabing my opponent and wanting to throw or wrestle them down to the ground.  I am build for judo or Yudo( i'm in korean arts) 6'2" and 300 lbs with a center of gravity lower then I would prefer.  There are no judo schools or I have not found an teacher in Eastern Oregon, USA, so I work on hapkido throws. *



Thats a good strong build but some of the greatest Judoka such as Mifune were 5'5"  and 140lbs. Apparently at his peak it was not possible to throw Mifune.


Cheers
Sammy


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## A Kenpo Student

This is all very interesting to read. I know virtually nothing about Judo besides it being a grappling/countering art similar to Aikido. This thread provided me with a bit of information though. Judo is on my list of one of arts to read up on.


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## tshadowchaser

Judo is such a great sport it is really a shame more people do dont practice and compet in it today. Then again maybe the compition is what has slowed its growth in the face of the more visable and faster paced Karate compition.  Judgeing in both can be ugly at times.
 I think those that study Judo today really study for there own pleasure not to show off for there friends and look pretty.  One must really want to endure some hard knocks to stay in judo and getting hurt is part of the price you pay for being thrown so much.
Shadow:asian:


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## Hollywood1340

Judo is one of the few "true" arts out there left. As westerners we fail to understand arts on varying levels, mental, physical and spiritual. I must admit I belive this.
P.S. This is not an art-bashing post, take it as you will.


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## sammy3170

> _Originally posted by tshadowchaser _
> 
> *Judo is such a great sport it is really a shame more people do dont practice and compet in it today. Then again maybe the compition is what has slowed its growth in the face of the more visable and faster paced Karate compition.  Judgeing in both can be ugly at times.
> I think those that study Judo today really study for there own pleasure not to show off for there friends and look pretty.  One must really want to endure some hard knocks to stay in judo and getting hurt is part of the price you pay for being thrown so much.
> Shadow:asian: *



I don't practice it any more but I still love it.  The schools that are here in Melbourne do it for the love of the art often with the instructors paying more to teach than they make.  It rally keeps it pure but is still a shame

Cheers
Sammy


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## JDenz

I am a wrestler but I think that Judo is a great sport.  I would really like to start doing some tournaments I probley should learn all the rules but I can learn them there I think.  I love the way Judo is played.  I think that the all day thing is going to happen any time that you have a sport like Judo, wrestling, boxing.  I mean no matter how many guys you have it still takes time and you have to give competitors a little time to rest between matches.


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## tshadowchaser

The next time the Oplimpics are comeing up get everyone you know to write a letter to the television company that will be showing it in your area and request that more judo matches be shown.  Tell them you do not care if your country is represented in the event or nor that you want to watch the matches.  Do this in advance of the event by at least 6 months and maybe if they get enough requests they will show more of it .  With enough publicity  and coverage the sport and art may once again gain favor with the public and grow.
Shadow
:asian:


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## JDenz

I have some Judo on tape from other oylmpics but mostly from the candian stations.   It is the same thing with wrestling you have to tape 10 hours of olympics to catch half a match.


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## Abbax8

I'm 47 years old , started judo when I was 12. Back then there was no yuko or koka. That was just sloppy judo. Bent over grappling was called bullwork and frowned upon. you trained to fight for 20 or 30 minutes continuously because international matches were 20 minutes long back then. Many a night we did randori for 3 hours. How long you were on the mat depended on your desire to improve. Slamming into the floor is a beautiful thing, whether I'm the slammer or the slamee! I teach judo at a TKD school. TKD classes are full, judo classes are small. Kids don't like the pain inherent in judo. Fewer adults willing to put up with it as well. I sometimes dream about huge classes with tons of students. But if the price of success is changing judo even more to make it popular, why bother. The list of banned techniques seems to continue to grow. Kani Basami-out, Flying Juji- out. Tomoe Nage might as well be out as you get penalized for dropping. And forget about Ne Waza. Half the fun was fighting on the mat working for an advantage- physical and mental chess. That is the Martial Aspect and the Art and the Way of Judo. Most people doubt if judo if effective on the street. I've even read posts from young judoka who are convinced their only doing a Sport. Judo is widely popular elsewhere in the world. Competition is only one part of it there. There's the exercise, the character development- it takes guts to be thrown, the camaraderie, the self defense aspect, the moral training- right use of force. These are what drew me to judo 35 years ago. I believe they can draw people today. 

                                                             Peace
                                                              Dennis


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## arnisador

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/commonwealthgames2002/hi/judo/newsid_1939000/1939925.stm


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## JDenz

fail I can't get that stupid Link to work


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## arnisador

It works for me--click on it, don't cut-and-paste, as it's abbrievated for display.


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## jeffbeish

Dennis, corner judges used yuko or koka in larger tournaments to base their calls when a judgment was needed. This was also used in Japan, or at least when I lived there in the early 1960s.  Since Ive been out of the loop for 20s year now I am not sure what they do now.  Anyway, youre right about slop Judo; it started sometime in the mid-1970s and just stuck with us.


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## JDenz

Yes I got it to worl I think I was just having browser problems.  Slop Judo started because it is the best way to win.  Sports are al about copying what is in and what is winning championships.


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## arnisador

It's a shame, but on the other hand, it's hard to fault people for using what works, and for improvising to gain an edge over their opponents.


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## whackjob-san

I agree with what everyone said.  Sport Judo has gotten worse, not better over the years.  Insurance companies and lawyers have destroyed judo competition, removing all of the visually interesting and dynamic techniques for "safety" reasons.  Kids are learning this watered down crap-version of judo dictated to them by some judo political suck*ss governing organization, NOT what the founder taught!!!  (Not that it matters anyway, because kids have gotten WAAAYYYYYYYYY too lazy and soft nowadays.  They don't want to work or exert effort for anything in their lives.  We're all doomed!)

I was hoping Mike Swains revised Sport Judo would change alot of that, but like I said; if we don't have the youth we have no future.


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## whackjob-san

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *It's a shame, but on the other hand, it's hard to fault people for using what works, and for improvising to gain an edge over their opponents. *



That's the reason I stopped competing in judo.  I'd be losing matches to these guys using slop techniques that did nothing but work the point system, while I'd be thinking in my head that this guy would be dead if we were out in the parking lot due to the position he put himself in!  My sensei would rage, telling me not to do this or that because the judges would penalize me for it, I just couldn't put aside my commen sense for the benefit of points.  Another teacher of mine would always say that "Practice doesn't make perfect.  Pracice makes permanent."  I discovered my priority was self-defense, and I wasn't going to jeopardize my safety by practicing faulty and unsafe technique.


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## jeffbeish

I stopped competing because at the tender age of 25 I began to lose : )  Reminds me of a friend who said:  It doesn't matter whether you win or lose -- until you lose.  While I must confess that the last matches of my last tournaments were done without much competition training, took off three years, it as not due to someone else but because of me.  I had only been away from Okinawa and Japan (proper) for three years I had lost the edge and without constant practice in Judo one tends to dull in tournament skills.  Those skills have always been different that dojo randori or whatever, or even when we had club Vs club kohaku shiai.  For some reason those contest seemed to me to be more technically pure. 

After I began teaching my methods changed to combat the slop Judo that I found disgusting, but adapted to never the less.  I did try to maintain some forms of Judo decorum, in that I offered my students some inside dirty tricks when all else failed.  It must have worked because my clubs brought home a lot of trophies.  They mixed some slop (get the initial koka total early) then run the clock out by trying ippon Judo.  Usually their opponents would commit a foul or slip up and allow their slop to dominate their brain cells and my student would be deemed favorable to corner judges.


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