# kinda regret taking wing chun...



## devasta (Mar 7, 2011)

I've been weight training for several years and recently started wing chun since the school is very close to where I live.  What I'm not fund of is that the muscles mass on my upper body gets too tense and I cant move fast enough. I dont want to loose too much muscle mass but if I continue to do weight training while  doing wing chun would be a bad idea?


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## Jake104 (Mar 8, 2011)

At my old school I trained with a guy that was a professional body builder.  We started at about the same time. At first he was like you very tense and always using to much muscle. But he eventally over came it and later on actually became a sifu. It took awhile though. Good luck!

Jake


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## Svemocn1vidar (Mar 8, 2011)

Perhaps the hardest part of Wing Chun is learning how to be relaxed and how to move with ease. Eventually you'll overcome your troubles. Just keep it up.


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## yak sao (Mar 8, 2011)

WC is definitely a fighting system. But look at how it gets you there. You don't simply learn a couple of techniques and put on some gloves and go at it with an opponent. WC gets you there by helping you train your body in new ways. It develops reflexes, flexibility, whole body unity, springiness in the muscles, balance.... not just standing balance, which is important to any sort of physical endeavor, but whole body balance, in other words , avoiding extremes. Things learned in WC not only develop you as a fighter, but I believe that it develops you into a better person. 

You don't have to stop strength training, necessarily, but step back and look at it from an overall approach. If you are too tight and tense to train WC, chances are your body is too stiff for other things....volleyball,bending over to pick up a baby, scratching your back...whatever. I'm sure you have an impressive physique, but are you out of balance? You may need to alter your approach to training.

But don't give up on WC simply because it's difficult...I admit, WC is very hard to get a handle on, I trained in another kung fu system for 14 years before I came to WC...and it was all new to me, but I stuck it out and I have reaped tremendous benefits from it.
Anyone who weight trains like you do, obviously isn't afraid of hard work, so I challenge you to give WC a try....BTW kung Fu literally translated means_  "hard work_."


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## geezer (Mar 8, 2011)

I agree with what others have said above. You can train with weights _and_ be good at Wing Chun. But you will have to train intelligently and may have to increase your upper body stretching routine. If you are really into body-building and trying to bulk up, you will have some conflicts. There will be range of motion issues and so forth. On the other hand, there are some big buff guys who do very well at WC. Experiment, try different routines until you find what works. Also, don't lift before WC class... not even the day before. Try to schedule your training so that you maintain a couple of days between your upper body workouts and WC. Nothing is more discouraging than to try to do chi-sau when you are all tight and sore from doms. Good luck and post back in a couple of months to give us an update.


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## aichis (Mar 8, 2011)

Don't worry about it, just go on. someday you will get used to it.

somewhat this remind me of Emin "the tough guy".


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## devasta (Mar 9, 2011)

Jake104 said:


> At my old school I trained with a guy that was a professional body builder. We started at about the same time. At first he was like you very tense and always using to much muscle. But he eventally over came it and later on actually became a sifu. It took awhile though. Good luck!
> 
> Jake


 
but he did loose some strength and mass along the course of his training no?


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## profesormental (Mar 10, 2011)

Greetings.  One of my students weight trains heavily. About 6'1", 235 lbs of heavy duty bodybuilder magazine buff mass.  He still trains, and his muscles have gotten, in his own words, "denser". He's also more agile, and faster. So it depends were you train and what is important to you. He's even stronger, and can move and control his body much better.  Really, I don't see why you have to loose any strength.  Hope that helps.


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## Jake104 (Mar 10, 2011)

devasta said:


> but he did loose some strength and mass along the course of his training no?[/
> Not really he stayed about the same . I think he just learned to relax and use technique rather than brute strength . I do agree with the poster that said that there is disadvantages like range of motion . But the same goes for someone who is over weight. Or someone like myself who has had surgeries that limit range of motion. That's what I like about WC is it can work for all types of people.
> 
> Jake


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## SenseiMattKlein (Mar 10, 2011)

Svemocn1vidar said:


> Perhaps the hardest part of Wing Chun is learning how to be relaxed and how to move with ease. Eventually you'll overcome your troubles. Just keep it up.


Good statement! Believe this is true of any martial art, not just Wing Chun. Watch the black belts, and how they make the movements look easy. It took years of training. Be patient.


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## mook jong man (Mar 10, 2011)

My personal view is that a massive musculature and Wing Chun do not make good bed fellows.
My own late Sifu cautioned us against using weights saying it would ruin our Wing Chun , and even thought our chests were getting too big from doing push ups , this seems to be pretty typical amongst old school chinese masters.

While this belief may seem extreme it does have an element of truth to it , large bulky biceps will have a braking effect when you are  trying to accelerate your punch , a bit like driving your car with the hand brake on.

But like most things in life you have to find a happy medium , I enjoy strength training as well , but after trying quite a few different training methods over the years I have settled on mostly bodyweight exercises and a few kettlebell lifts.

Using the muscles in a wholistic way to move your own body through space with exercises such as pull ups etc does not seem to have any detrimental effects on speed unlike exercises where the muscles are isolated like bicep curls.

Look at chimpanzees for example , they are many times stronger than a human male and could rip your arm off quite easily , yet they are not bulky and swing through the trees with the grace of a gymnast. 

 They didn't get that power from lifting weights , they got it from lifting their own bodies , with each muscle group linked together working in a natural harmonious way.

If you really enjoy lifting keep doing it , because any exercise becomes a lot harder to do regularly if you don't enjoy it.

It just means that you will probably have to devote a lot more time to the practice of Chi Sau and the Sil Lum Tau form than your peers in order for you to learn to relax and reach that "Sil lum Tau state" of no muscle tension.


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## zepedawingchun (Mar 10, 2011)

Instead of weight training for size or bulk, Devasta, maybe you can train for just strength and definition.  Look at Bruce Lee.  His physique was phenominal, well defined but not bulky.  I'm sure he had a look that any male would like to have.  And most likely the strength to go with it.


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## wtxs (Mar 10, 2011)

yak sao said:


> *WC gets you there by helping you train your body in new ways*. It develops reflexes, flexibility, whole body unity, springiness in the muscles, balance.... not just standing balance, which is important to any sort of physical endeavor, but whole body balance





geezer said:


> I agree with what others have said above. You can train with weights _and_ be good at Wing Chun. But you will have to train intelligently and may have to increase your upper body stretching routine. If you are really into body-building and trying to bulk up, you will have some conflicts. There will be range of motion issues and so forth. On the other hand, there are some big buff guys who do very well at WC. *Experiment, try different routines until you find what works*.



Don't have to give up on the weights, WC is an extremely adaptive art form, we all had to tailor WC mechanics/tools to our body structures in one way or other.

You can compensate for the upper body speed/mobility lose with the lower halve, timing the entry, you big bulging arms require less distance traveled to the target ... what Yak Sao said about, the whole body balance.


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## Eric_H (Mar 11, 2011)

I gave up the weights when i switch to WC and wish now that i hadn't. Once you stop doing those things for a few years - they're harder to get back into.

My advice knowing now what i wish i knew then - scale back on the chest stuff, work your back, abs, forearms and legs. Kung fu guys should always have a strong back and grip.


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## Indie12 (Mar 11, 2011)

Svemocn1vidar said:


> Perhaps the hardest part of Wing Chun is learning how to be relaxed and how to move with ease. Eventually you'll overcome your troubles. Just keep it up.


 
Yeah, relaxing during training is the hardest thing to learn in Wing Chun, especially when doing Chi Sao, Pak Sao, or Lop Sao.

Relaxing is key!!


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