# Druids Vow To Defend Sword Ban To The Hilt



## Bob Hubbard (Jul 2, 2006)

*Druids Vow To Defend Sword Ban To The Hilt* 





*Author: *Portsmouth Today   *Source: *Portsmouth Today (UK) 




*Title: *DRUIDS VOW TO DEFEND SWORD BAN TO THE HILT

A pagan carrying her sacred knife has been arrested for possessing an offensive weapon.

Debbie King, Arch Druidess of the Insular Order of Druids in Portsmouth was arrested at Fareham Magistrates Court for carrying a five-inch blade.

Miss King was dressed in her regular clothes but handed security officers a bag containing all her Druid accessories, including the sheathed knife known as an athame.

When she went to collect the bag later she was kept waiting for an hour before two police officers arrived and arrested her.
More: [Wrens Nest] [Portsmouth Today]


----------



## Andrew Green (Jul 2, 2006)

I'd agree, if people want to carry a knife as part of there religion they should be allowed too.  Especially when many ceremonial knives aren't at all sharp.

But...

I think they really loose credibility to the general public when there news articles have things like this:



> King Arthur Pendragon, Battle Chieftain of the Council of British Druid Orders, is vowing to fight for Miss King's right to carry her knife.
> King Arthur, who was cleared at court in 1996 for carrying his broadsword, said: 'If it goes to court, I'll defend it to the hilt. I think it's ridiculous &#8211; we've proved time and time again in court that it's only for ceremonial reasons.'



Which makes them sound more like fantasy nuts then followers of a legitimate religion...


----------



## Bob Hubbard (Jul 2, 2006)

I agree, but....we do have folks legally named Obi Wan too. 
I'd be curious if it was his legal name, a honorary one, etc.


----------



## tshadowchaser (Jul 2, 2006)

Not living in the UK my views may not be those of the folks there:

If the person in question is of a religious order and as part of that order her responsibilities and duties require her to carry a ceremonial knife I don't see why authorities have a problem with it other than it is not what their religion dose


----------



## someguy (Jul 2, 2006)

I'll play devil's advocate.
Law is the law.  It exists for a reason.  If you let this slide the well you are just sliding religion into government aren't you.  I mean isn't this opening a can of worms to let people break a law just for a religious reason.
And this is something I'll defned until eh probably tomorrow...  I mean to the death.


----------



## Kembudo-Kai Kempoka (Jul 2, 2006)

someguy said:
			
		

> I'll play devil's advocate.
> Law is the law. It exists for a reason. If you let this slide the well you are just sliding religion into government aren't you. I mean isn't this opening a can of worms to let people break a law just for a religious reason.
> And this is something I'll defned until eh probably tomorrow... I mean to the death.


 
I'll join you as devils advocate. Where does it stop? Anyone can form a religion, and even apply for tax status for it under the law. So, what's to stop me from founding a religion in which the dictates are that I honor the ancient gods of thunder by carrying the man-made bottled thunder & lightning bolt, a loaded gun?

As a priest of the order, and according to the statutes of my religion, I am also instructed by divinity to bring judgement to any and all who break the commandments of my god. Some may be noble (assault a woman with a child, and I cap your ***), some may be ignoble (looking a priest of the thunder-god in the eyes is an affront to the deity he serves, since he is -- according to the religion -- an avatar of the diety here on earth...a sort of Pope, if you will. The penalty is death.) Or..I worship Tor...so I carry this big hammer for smiting my enemies. Since it's a religious thing, I can't be held to the laws of the land for assault and battery with a deadly weapon when I finally DO smite an infidel. Taking this logic to it's final destination, AL Qaida did nothng wrong, and we should leave Afghanistan and Iraq out of it...it was Jihad, and due to seperation of church & state, they are not legally accountable for their actions.

Any whack-job can believe in anything they want. Your right to swing your arms freely around your body ends where my nose begins. Your right to carry sacred weaponry ends where a courthouse begins. Unless you're Tom Cruise, that is. Fame, wealth, and scientology place one above, not with.

D


----------



## Andrew Green (Jul 2, 2006)

law is funny that way.

Is a swiss army knife a problem?

Carrying some kitchen knifes home from the store?  To a friends that wants to borrow them?

A weapon is something that is being carried for that purpose.  If I carry a screwdriver it is not a weapon, unless the reason I am carrying it is to use it as one.

A knife carried for religious reasons is not a weapon.


----------



## Carol (Jul 2, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> law is funny that way.
> 
> Is a swiss army knife a problem?
> 
> ...


 
Agreed.   I posted this on another forum sometime back.

_Kirpan is not a weapon. 

I have a 40 piece knife set at home, including six steak knives and knives with blades that range from 2 to 12 inches. Not weapons.

I have a hammer in my tool kit. Not a weapon.

I keep the hammer near the box cutter. That's not a weapon either.

I have set of wickedly sharp pruning shears for my agronomic pursuits. Not a weapon.

I have a baseball bat in my closet. Not a weapon. 

My dad has a 2 gallon can of gasoline in his garage. Not a weapon.

I flew on a Boeing 757 last month, the same kind of plane that was flown in to the WTC. Not a weapon.

I have a tire iron in the back of my SUV. Not a weapon.

I have an SUV. Not a weapon.

I went to visit friends in a neigboring state on the 4th of July. We bought a large variety pack of fireworks and set them off in her back yard. They are DOT Class C explosives. They would have gotten me arrested if I brought them back to my home state. But, they are not weapons.

I have a sharp letter opener on my desk at work. Not a weapon.

I just bought a colleague of mine the REALLY cool Swiss Army Knife for a special company event. It's a Swiss Army Knife, with a flashlight and a USB drive. It is SOOOO cool!! Also, not a weapon. Even though it is called a Swiss Army KNIFE and has a BLADE and my colleague carries it ON his person...it is NOT a weapon!_


----------



## someguy (Jul 3, 2006)

Sure intention is important when determining if a object is a weapon.  A 5 inch blade has one main use, it is a weapon.  Sure it may have a well established religious purpose.  It has a better root in being a weapon.  We may not weigh intention simply by seeing a person.  Unless you are advocating profiling.  Ok that person looks wiccan.  They can carry a knife.  That person is possibly of Middle eastern descent... nope no flying on a plane for them.  
If you have a problem with the law then move to change it not to break it.
THis is fun.  Oh I love playing the devil's advocate...


----------



## Rich Parsons (Jul 3, 2006)

Andrew Green said:
			
		

> law is funny that way.
> 
> Is a swiss army knife a problem?
> 
> ...



I accidentily had my training bag with me in a company car and I only had sticks, not even training knives or a real blade. Security wanted to look at it. Then they wanted to keep it. As no weapons are allowed. (* Note: I was leaving the place :rollseyes: *) I said sure I need a receipt from their supervisor for the shift and I also want them to remove all the golf clubs from every car as well as all the softball bats, and let us not forget the tire irons to loosen the lug nuts. The senior of the two, just looked at me and said do not bring them back. I said no problem sir. The other guy said but we have to take away all his weapons. I then asked is he going to take away my body as well? The senior waved me on and the junior reached out to touch the vehicle so I stopped. I replied and said I realized that he was unarmed and without a weapon, but tht I would never be without a weapon for I use my brain. The senior just laughed and pulled the other guy away and I drove off. 


In the UK where the SUBJECTs of that country have different rights then the CITIZENs of this country, I see it as another weapon control issue. Yes knife crimes are on the rise in the UK. But why? Oh let us not ask the hard question and try to solve it, let us just make another law to make something else illegal. Take away the guns people go for swords and clubs. It is already illegal to assault someone but that still happens. So making it illegal to have swords is going to stop all the problem right?

Also here is another question I have to ask. Will the Nobility be granted a wavier, with the military if they have a dress sword? Will the Queen be in trouble if she knights someone with a sword?

Hmmm to me it looks like there are going to be exceptions already. To me it looks like the are not really addressing the root cause of violence and sword or knife attacks. 

But then again I am over here on this side of the Atlantic and cannot speak to the workings of the UK.


----------

