# AKKA - Shorinji Toraken Ryu Kempo ?



## Searcher (Dec 30, 2002)

Has anyone heard of this group? I would be interested in hearing experiences and opinions on here or through email.

Thanks.

This is the link to their main page.

http://www.torakendo.com/index2.htm


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## arnisador (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't know anything about this group. I note that the founder is a 50ish man, who goes by the title:



> Dr. James R. Cherry
> (Shodai / Soke)



and has 5 fifth degree black belts, 2 seventh degree black belts, as well as the tenth degree in his system. I also note this:



> On March 18, 2000  Dr. Ron Cherry (Soke) Performed an Inheritor/Successorship ceremony, and handed the system and organization to Ray Ferrell (Kyoshi) making him the (Nidai Soke)  or (present Head of Family) and 2nd generation Soke to the Toraken Ryu Arts.



This sends up a lot of warning signs. You might also ask at www.e-budo.com but I would tread cautiously.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 25, 2003)

Gassho.
This organisation has nothing to do with Shorinji Kempo, despite the similarity of names. Any westerner who calls himself "Soke", however, clearly doesn't understand the iemoto system. I'd red flag this immediately. Note also that his HQ is in America, not Japan, despite the "soke" appellation.
Kesshu.


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## Nightingale (Aug 29, 2003)

why would his headquarters have to be in Japan?


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *why would his headquarters have to be in Japan? *


What does "soke" mean?


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## Nightingale (Aug 29, 2003)

I have absolutely no clue. I don't speak Japanese. I practice AMERICAN kenpo, and we speak English in class.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *I have absolutely no clue. I don't speak Japanese. I practice AMERICAN kenpo, and we speak English in class. *


I practice Shorinji Kempo, and we use Japanese for all technical terms and instructions. Our headquarters is in Japan. Why do you use a Japanese name for an art that has no connections with Japan?
"American Kenpo"? That's like mixing Latin and German.


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## Nightingale (Aug 29, 2003)

You still haven't answered my question about why his headquarters would have to be in Japan.

and its called American Kenpo because that's what Mr. Parker chose to call it.  If you have an issue with that, perhaps you'll have the priveledge of meeting him in the afterlife, and you can ask him to explain.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *You still haven't answered my question about why his headquarters would have to be in Japan.
> 
> and its called American Kenpo because that's what Mr. Parker chose to call it.  If you have an issue with that, perhaps you'll have the priveledge of meeting him in the afterlife, and you can ask him to explain. *


Because if he's called "soke" it must be an iemoto system.
And there is no afterlife, so the point is moot, but I'd like to know why you name the art "kenpo", but not use any Japanese terms thereafter?


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## Nightingale (Aug 29, 2003)

You still haven't told me the meaning of the word "soke".  and a definition of the word "iemoto" would also be appreciated.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by nightingale8472 _
> *You still haven't told me the meaning of the word "soke".  and a definition of the word "iemoto" would also be appreciated. *


Read this article for an explanation of both the iemoto system, and why the application of the word "soke" is inappropriate in many MA.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2003)

For some information on 'what is' Kenpo please see here:
http://kenponet.tripod.com/flame/articles/chapel_cfw1.html

:asian:


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kimpatsu _
> *Read this article for an explanation of both the iemoto system, and why the application of the word "soke" is inappropriate in many MA. *



IF! I understood that article, soke (or iemoto) mean the same thing, and is less of a title and more of a description for a group.  (its late here so I'm forced to speed read)


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *IF! I understood that article, soke (or iemoto) mean the same thing, and is less of a title and more of a description for a group.  (its late here so I'm forced to speed read) *


It's a lineage of Japanese families, Kaith. Soke is the head of the family. It does NOT mean "founder", as so many people mistakenly think.


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2003)

I saw that part, but the meaning seemed to change at time went on.  I may have misread though.  So, "Soke" is lineage, so basically what the folks misusing the term are saying is not Grandmaster Bob, but Family Tree Bob?

Ok, now I can go laugh at em.


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## Nightingale (Aug 29, 2003)

hmm...

I interpreted it as more of a patriarch.  not the founder, but the one currently reigning over the family.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *I saw that part, but the meaning seemed to change at time went on.  I may have misread though.  So, "Soke" is lineage, so basically what the folks misusing the term are saying is not Grandmaster Bob, but Family Tree Bob?
> 
> Ok, now I can go laugh at em.  *


More than that; by definition, they must be Japanese. So Bob would have to be called "Bob-o". Kinda like "jell-o"...


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## Bob Hubbard (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kimpatsu _
> *More than that; by definition, they must be Japanese. So Bob would have to be called "Bob-o". Kinda like "jell-o"... *



I'm working on that....diet, exercize, getting hit in the head with sticks.... 

Ok, so its a term only for use within a Japanese family system, and couldn't be used within a Chinese or Okinawan system?  (Just clarifying)


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz _
> *I'm working on that....diet, exercize, getting hit in the head with sticks....
> 
> Ok, so its a term only for use within a Japanese family system, and couldn't be used within a Chinese or Okinawan system?  (Just clarifying) *


Okinawans speak Japanese, so that wouldn't be a problem. Not Chinese, though. They have their own terminology.


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## Seig (Aug 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Searcher _
> *Has anyone heard of this group? I would be interested in hearing experiences and opinions on here or through email.
> 
> Thanks.
> ...


Searcher,
I do not know much about the group, but I have known one of the members for about 20 years.  Master Robert Zingg is a good friend and a damned fine Martial Artist.  If you get in touch with Master Zingg, you will get honest no Bull-Shido answers.


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## Kimpatsu (Aug 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Seig _
> *Searcher,
> I do not know much about the group, but I have known one of the members for about 20 years.  Master Robert Zingg is a good friend and a damned fine Martial Artist.  If you get in touch with Master Zingg, you will get honest no Bull-Shido answers. *


This thread doesn't belong in the Shorinji Kempo forum, though; it's a completely separate art.


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## The Kai (Mar 10, 2005)

One of my students in moving to North Carolina.  Is this a good school tecnique wise?  I'm not asking if they are using the term Soke correctly or incorrectly. but if thet are reputable

Thanks


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## kamishinkan (Mar 30, 2005)

Interesting, I have studied (a little) about the term "Soke" and have found varying opinions on this as well (all from credible Japanese "traditionalist" types). It seems that it is ok to use the term Soke if your system is a lineage "famliel" system (not necessarily Martial Arts, but could apply to MA). I have also heard that to use the term Soke for a founder of a system is WRONG!!!! Well I find it interesting that the late Okuyama sensei of Hakko Ryu used the term as in Sodai-Soke (First Generation Head of Family) and the late Hayashi sensei of Hayashi Ha Shito Ryu used the term Soke as well. It seems that the opinions keep going and going......As far as an American using the term (keeping in mind that the term has been misused and ABUSED by alot of Americans) but if it is ok for MA in the West to use terms such as Sensei, Shihan, Sempai, Kohai, etc, etc, it seems that Soke should be no different (when used correctly). 
 I certainly do not see the problem with a Westerner using Japanese terminology to tie their teachings to the source where they come from. It could be viewed as a way of honoring the past. Just a thought.
 As far as Toraken Ryu...I have heard a little about the group and except some misunderstandings of the use of some Japanese terms that I have seen, I have heard they are ok guys that train hard.


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## gkygrl (Dec 31, 2007)

I was in the Army in 1984 and studied under Dr. James Cherry as part of my SWAT / Counter-Terrorism and Hostage Rescue Training.  He was awesome!!

I don't know anything about the group he has founded (AKKA), but I know that Dr. Cherry was a great teacher.


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## MarkC (May 22, 2008)

I know this is an old thread, but unless I'm mistaken, Dr. Cherry trained with either Albert Church or some of his people. 
My own instructor did as well. I used to know some of the black belts from Dr. Cherry's schoo long ago, and their techniques were pretty good, as were their attitudes.


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## Calvary (Dec 22, 2011)

I know this is a very old thread, and for that I apologize, but I wanted to make it known that Shorinji Toraken Ryu is no joke regardless of what one might say about the lineage. Though I've never met Dr. Cherry himself, my sensei, Doni Pulley is very professional, and very respectful, as well as respectable. As for the curriculum, It is very solid. It has elements, of Jujutsu with it's many joint locks, pressure points, and submissions. It has a high stance for quick mobility. It employs circular movements as well as linear. It involves aspects of newaza (ground fighting), and involves weapons. The class has a good attitude, and sensei will not raise up bullies, as they get weeded out early. I've watched the children's class, and they are very well behaved, and show each other respect. In a nutshell, it is a very well rounded fighting system that would be quite effective in a self defense application. This is definitely not for sport. Perhaps the only critique would be that it takes hard work and a long time to fully comprehend the entire system.....

        Just 2 cents from someone who actually attends the classes


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