# Head bouncing on concrete



## Jared Traveler (Sep 22, 2022)

I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.

That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.

I think there is some validity to this. I also think this is one more reason the Muay Thai clinch is valuable. Being able to even articulate an attempt to keep them from bouncing their head would go a long ways in a police report to set the stage for a positive legal aftermath.

Thoughts?


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


yes i agree & keep you out of jail. however in a brawl on the cobbles it´s not always easy if it´s a fight with more than one person. Nowadays kids will kick you in the head until your passed out or worse. for me it depends on the situation, if i´m fighting for my life...no rules simple as that.


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## Ivan (Sep 22, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


I think it depends on priorities, but also your instincts and reflexes. My father and my old Shorinji Kempo sensei (who was an a police detective in the UK for 10 years) are both very big on ensuring you defend yourself as best as you can, but to do so legally too. In the UK, the laws are very strict - it is not like in some USA states where you can escalate the situation in retaliation. It is very illegal to use more force than what the aggressor is using, and even then you can still wind up in jail. It was not long ago that a man was arrested for using a kitchen knife to defend himself from home invaders.

The way I see it, in the UK, if anything happens I am guaranteed to be fined or incarcerated, regardless of my response, especially if they find out I train in martial arts. Regardless of the fact that I may not be the aggressor, the fact that I am trained places a certain responsibility upon me to control the situation under the eyes of the law (correct me if I am wrong, I believe this is how it is). Because of this, unless I run away or escape, 9 times out of 10 I will be in the wrong too - so I might as well make sure I defend myself to the best of my ability, regardless if I escalate the situation or not.

Furthermore, it is not easy to control your reactions in a real-life situation. Even in jiujitsu competitions, I find myself taking action before thinking ahead about whether it's the right thing to do. My body reacts before my mind analyses or perceives. If some random person on the street decides to kick me out of nowhere, and my reaction is to catch the kick and sweep them and they crack their head on the pavement, then I'm going to jail - but I did not consciously or premeditatively plan to do so; my reactions and instincts did.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 22, 2022)

Ivan said:


> but I did not consciously or premeditatively plan to do so; my reactions and instincts did.


some people do plan to hurt or maim, of course you´re correct to a point.


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## lklawson (Sep 22, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.


It's the most common way to die from an "unarmed fist fight" and happens much more frequently than most people are aware of.



Jared Traveler said:


> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> I think there is some validity to this. I also think this is one more reason the Muay Thai clinch is valuable. Being able to even articulate an attempt to keep them from bouncing their head would go a long ways in a police report to set the stage for a positive legal aftermath.
> 
> Thoughts?


It's also a good argument from grappling.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 22, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


I don't try stop the bullet if I shoot a gun in self dfense. I don't try to stop the fall of my attacker when I send him to the ground. I have no assumptions that I'm so good at fighting that I can afford to care for my attacker's safety.  If I could then I wouldn't fight knowing that I was that dominant.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 22, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I don't try stop the bullet if I shoot a gun in self dfense. I don't try to stop the fall of my attacker when I send him to the ground. I have no assumptions that I'm so good at fighting that I can afford to care for my attacker's safety.  If I could then I wouldn't fight knowing that I was that dominant.


Fair enough, but what I'm saying is that with the clinch, you are far more likely to naturally control his fall. Or at least be able to articulate that you attempted to.

I'm not saying someone needs to take on this moral responsibility. I'm only saying it's something to consider. You may have good reason not to want to clinch based on the situation.


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## Holmejr (Sep 22, 2022)

Fights can move awfully fast and crap simply happens. I would like to think that I can, with my amazing locking skills (yeah right!) set the perp down easy. Most civilized folk don’t want a confrontation, let alone bounce someone off the pavement. Most civilized people, even when a bit crazy mad can usually be talked out of a confrontation. But being nice can also get you killed. Seconds count. The true criminal does not have your best interest in mind, regardless of some woke laws about self defense. You are simply in the way of what they want. You are disposable. Watching cop videos where they are bending over backwards to be as civilized as possible with the perp, only to have the perp escalate to the point of being shot teach us much.  Only a civilized person would, at the point of confrontation, consider the surface and determine it to dangerous to defend themselves on. “I know you’re threatening my life, but can we please take it over to that grassy area?”


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 22, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> Fights can move awfully fast and crap simply happens. I would like to think that I can, with my amazing locking skills (yeah right!) set the perp down easy. Most civilized folk don’t want a confrontation, let alone bounce someone off the pavement. Most civilized people, even when a bit crazy mad can usually be talked out of a confrontation. But being nice can also get you killed. Seconds count. The true criminal does not have your best interest in mind, regardless of some woke laws about self defense. You are simply in the way of what they want. You are disposable. Watching cop videos where they are bending over backwards to be as civilized as possible with the perp, only to have the perp escalate to the point of being shot teach us much.  Only a civilized person would, at the point of confrontation, consider the surface and determine it to dangerous to defend themselves on. “I know you’re threatening my life, but can we please take it over to that grassy area?”


I've seen a fight where the mma guy wants to fight on the grass so he moves to the grass then his attacker follows and loses lol


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## lklawson (Sep 23, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I don't try stop the bullet if I shoot a gun in self dfense. I don't try to stop the fall of my attacker when I send him to the ground. I have no assumptions that I'm so good at fighting that I can afford to care for my attacker's safety.  If I could then I wouldn't fight knowing that I was that dominant.


So you're at your 27th Annual Family Reunion and Uncle Fred gets drunk which makes him froggy and he takes a poke at you.  So you're just gonna throw him on his head and let the depressed skull fracture happen or are you going to try to mitigate it a bit because you really don't want to kill him?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

lklawson said:


> So you're at your 27th Annual Family Reunion and Uncle Fred gets drunk which makes him froggy and he takes a poke at you.  So you're just gonna throw him on his head and let the depressed skull fracture happen or are you going to try to mitigate it a bit because you really don't want to kill him?
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


That's not even closely the same thing.
1. I don't have family members who would attack each other like an attacker on the street. 
2. If someone has a family member who they might have to fight like that then may be they shouldn't hang around that person or show up at the Family Reunion.  Be proactive is what I say.  Either don't invite the aggressive family member or don't show up at the family reunion.

Now if I did have a family that I felt that I need to attack like that then there would have been clues that we hated each others guts and then that would be a clue for me to not be around him, which is #2 above. I had an uncle who used to get drunk and become a risk for the family. My dad laid down the rules.  "If you are going to be drunk then you can't be here."  Which leads back to #2.  

My family is not above disowning family members.  Family rule is that the head of the house will not let 1 family member bring down the rest.


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## wab25 (Sep 23, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Being able to even articulate an attempt to keep them from bouncing their head would go a long ways in a police report to set the stage for a positive legal aftermath.


When talking with the police... you need to be very careful.... and you need to understand ALL of the laws. I would speak to lawyers and police in the place where you live to get a good understanding of what to say and what not to say. You could end up digging your own grave... or just adding years to your sentence....






Use of force laws usually talk about when you can use what amount of force. I have yet to see one that says that you can use a certain level of force, if and only if you control their fall. Either you can use that level of force or you can't.... easing their fall after using that level of force does not change anything....


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 23, 2022)

wab25 said:


> When talking with the police... you need to be very careful..


this 100%  say nothing until you speak to a lawyer


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

lklawson said:


> It's the most common way to die from an "unarmed fist fight" and happens much more frequently than most people are aware of.
> 
> 
> It's also a good argument from grappling.


Even in the rural area I live in now we see subdural bleeds at the hospital fairly often. This is a college area with lots of bars.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

lklawson said:


> So you're at your 27th Annual Family Reunion and Uncle Fred gets drunk which makes him froggy and he takes a poke at you.  So you're just gonna throw him on his head and let the depressed skull fracture happen or are you going to try to mitigate it a bit because you really don't want to kill him?
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


I whipped his *** last year at Thanksgiving for taking all the skin off the turkey, I’m likely to stab him with a turkey bone shank. If he disrespects like that again, he will be layin in gravy.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> That's not even closely the same thing.
> 1. I don't have family members who would attack each other like an attacker on the street.
> 2. If someone has a family member who they might have to fight like that then may be they shouldn't hang around that person or show up at the Family Reunion.  Be proactive is what I say.  Either don't invite the aggressive family member or don't show up at the family reunion.
> 
> ...


You don’t? Oh man there was always blood at my fam gatherings. I wasn’t raised right. Dominoes and liquor can get the blood flowing.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

lklawson said:


> So you're at your 27th Annual Family Reunion and Uncle Fred gets drunk which makes him froggy and he takes a poke at you.  So you're just gonna throw him on his head and let the depressed skull fracture happen or are you going to try to mitigate it a bit because you really don't want to kill him?
> 
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk


There doesn’t need to be a skull fracture. A good bounce is plenty to kill a fella.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I whipped his *** last year at Thanksgiving for taking all the skin off the turkey, I’m likely to stab him with a turkey bone shank. If he disrespects like that again, he will be layin in gravy.


I’m just kidding here


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## drop bear (Sep 23, 2022)

There was a case a while back where a bouncer punched a famous cricketer and killed him.









						Jury clears bouncer in Hookes case
					

A Victorian jury has found the Melbourne pub bouncer accused of killing former Test cricketer and coach of the Victoria state team David Hookes not guilty of manslaughter.




					www.abc.net.au
				




It cause a huge uproar. And the bouncer barely got off a manslaughter charge.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> You don’t? Oh man there was always blood at my fam gatherings. I wasn’t raised right. Dominoes and liquor can get the blood flowing.


Sorry to hear that.  Hopefully that will change with the younger generations and generations to come.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> I whipped his *** last year at Thanksgiving for taking all the skin off the turkey, I’m likely to stab him with a turkey bone shank. If he disrespects like that again, he will be layin in gravy.


Turkey Bone Shank... ha ha ha.  Now I've heard everything.  Nothing but boneless meat and finger food at your reunions huh?


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

wab25 said:


> When talking with the police... you need to be very careful.... and you need to understand ALL of the laws.


Hopefully, a camera would be around or someone would capture me getting attacked on camera lol.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

wab25 said:


> When talking with the police... you need to be very careful.... and you need to understand ALL of the laws. I would speak to lawyers and police in the place where you live to get a good understanding of what to say and what not to say. You could end up digging your own grave... or just adding years to your sentence....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This reminds me of what a District Attorney told me in a law class that I took a long time ago.   Don't answer beyond the question being asked.    She said that we should get into the habit of only answering the question.  If the answer to a question is longer than a one word sentence then don't answer.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 23, 2022)

wab25 said:


> When talking with the police... you need to be very careful.... and you need to understand ALL of the laws. I would speak to lawyers and police in the place where you live to get a good understanding of what to say and what not to say. You could end up digging your own grave... or just adding years to your sentence....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for bring up this important subject. Indeed this is an important topic. Most people have a wrong idea on how to best mitigate interacting with the police. There is mountains of misinformation and bad thinking out there. That has unfortunately become common thinking.

Not talking to the police being one of the most common forms of bad advice and probably the worst things you can do in a self-defense situation. But there are nuances on how to handle this to you best advantage.

With that said, I don't think this form is prepared to hear the truth on this particular subject. Because the bad information is so deeply rooted.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 23, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Thank you for bring up this important subject. Indeed this is an important topic. Most people have a wrong idea on how to best mitigate interacting with the police. There is mountains of misinformation and bad thinking out there. That has unfortunately become common thinking.
> 
> Not talking to the police being one of the most common forms of bad advice and probably the worst things you can do in a self-defense situation. But there are nuances on how to handle this to you best advantage.
> 
> With that said, I don't think this form is prepared to hear the truth on this particular subject. Because the bad information is so deeply rooted.


It's good advice because a lot of people will explain themselves into trouble.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 23, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> It's good advice because a lot of people will explain themselves into trouble.


What is great advice?


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Sorry to hear that.  Hopefully that will change with the younger generations and generations to come.


Not at all man. That’s just people. I came up different than most.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 23, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Turkey Bone Shank... ha ha ha.  Now I've heard everything.  Nothing but boneless meat and finger food at your reunions huh?





drop bear said:


> There was a case a while back where a bouncer punched a famous cricketer and killed him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We are pretty fragile creatures.


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## Holmejr (Sep 25, 2022)

There is an article today where a famous surf pro died after a one punch altercation. He hit his head after falling and died due to that injury. Bad bounce.


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## Gyakuto (Sep 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


I used to be a magistrate and when a case of assault was before us (three magistrates hear cases here in the U.K.) and the victim fell to the ground, perhaps unconscious, I’d vehemently argue that the potential sentence should be more punitive due to the risk of fatal or life-changing brain injury, using my other knowledge of contracoup injuries etc, to add impact (pun intended) to my argument. 

So, would-be thugs, only fight in soft grassy areas.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> , would-be thugs, only fight in soft grassy areas.


🙄 hmmm....yes I'm sure this happens in a bar fight in the City Center


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 26, 2022)

An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head. While that is a hard hit, and potentially crippling, I think a judoka could at least articulate that he attempted to throw him on his back. And in all likely the person would not hit his head. Although it's certainly still possible.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head. While that is a hard hit, and potentially crippling, I think a judoka could at least articulate that he attempted to throw him on his back. And in all likely the person would not hit his head. Although it's certainly still possible.


Reminds me of when I was running on the streets & tripped on an uneven paving slab. I rolled forward & got on my feet quickly but on another occasion in the woods I tripped & landed flat on my face & it hurt my knee. I think in the frenzy of a fight it can go any way too. Can't Plan things like in a Dojo. If you're fighting for your life you'll bite his ear off if need be. I've rammed my thumb into a guys eye before as he was on top of me but soon he wasn't after I hurt him.


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## Gyakuto (Sep 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head. While that is a hard hit, and potentially crippling, I think a judoka could at least articulate that he attempted to throw him on his back. And in all likely the person would not hit his head. Although it's certainly still possible.






I think a throw only requires a bit of a tweak to be devastating! She sorted him out good and proper!


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> View attachment 28940
> I think a throw only requires a bit of a tweak to be devastating! She sorted him out good and proper!


The old "snow plow." It's possible people can stiffen up and not roll. But again at least you are employing a technique that you can articulate is selected with safety in mind. With that said a knee drop shoulder throw is one of the most likely throws that will result in stiffening up and not rolling.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 26, 2022)

i like this


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head.


I'm not sure about that.  I'm just about martial arts and my guess there's a sport side and self-defense side of things for judo.  Most people see the sports side of things for judo.  Martial art in general wants to end the fight as soon as possible so there's a lot of throws that would increase the chance of hitting the head on the ground.  But those throws would be banned in sports judo. 

81265


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## Gyakuto (Sep 26, 2022)

Olympic Judo 🤢

Has anyone seen the dreadfully titled documentary, ‘Budo: The Art of Killing’? It’s generally a bit cheesy now but the Judo section looks good. It looks like I remember Judo used to look…dangerous! The Judo I see now in the Olympics is so dull and really unimpressive. Olympic TKD is even worse. They are one of the reasons the ZNKR wants to keep Kendo out of the Olympic games!


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> View attachment 28940
> I think a throw only requires a bit of a tweak to be devastating! She sorted him out good and proper!


One of my favorite clips.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 26, 2022)

Gyakuto said:


> Olympic Judo 🤢
> 
> Has anyone seen the dreadfully titled documentary, ‘Budo: The Art of Killing’? It’s generally a bit cheesy now but the Judo section looks good. It looks like I remember Judo used to look…dangerous! The Judo I see now in the Olympics is so dull and really unimpressive. Olympic TKD is even worse. They are one of the reasons the ZNKR wants to keep Kendo out of the Olympic games!


That's the good thing about sports.  We don't want it to be career ending or life ending. The bad thing is that the original system gets misrepresented as it morphs into a sports focus and not self-defense focus.  That's when the lines start to blur in terms of being effective for sports vs self defense.  The skill sets that's needed to win the sport are often not the same as the ones needed to win a fight.

I recently got caught with that during sparring.  I did a successful foot hook on my MMA sparring partner, he fell.  I stopped going.  He didn't and used that as an opportunity to set me up in a leg lock.  Lesson learned.  I have to get out of my sports mind a little when training with the MMA guy, but more important, I need to start to "finish the fight" the next time he's down.  I won't land the shot but I will make him aware of it.  To that extent, I should make him extremely concerned about being on the ground when I'm still standing.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 26, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> I'm not sure about that.  I'm just about martial arts and my guess there's a sport side and self-defense side of things for judo.  Most people see the sports side of things for judo.  Martial art in general wants to end the fight as soon as possible so there's a lot of throws that would increase the chance of hitting the head on the ground.  But those throws would be banned in sports judo.
> 
> 81265


Kano excluded techniques that could not be practiced full force, it wasn't about sport, it was about Randoi practice.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 26, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Kano excluded techniques that could not be practiced full force, it wasn't about sport, it was about Randoi practice.


Kano was an Educator following the path of "Do"  for him Judo was an educational & moralish system.


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## drop bear (Sep 26, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> There is an article today where a famous surf pro died after a one punch altercation. He hit his head after falling and died due to that injury. Bad bounce.



And the dude that did it is locked up. No bail. And might do 8 years


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## Holmejr (Sep 27, 2022)

drop bear said:


> And the dude that did it is locked up. No bail. And might do 8 years


8 years for a 1 second super bad decision. Life can change in a blink of an eye.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 27, 2022)

Holmejr said:


> 8 years for a 1 second super bad decision. Life can change in a blink of an eye.


never been in prison but what´s shocking is i´ve seen Pedophiles & rapists get less time


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## Darren (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


Never been knocked out in a fight but have seen my share of stars and a big white light a few times but having a very mild form of cerebral palsy that is to be expected!! Did fight this black belt once(never ever be so eager to move in) right after that I knew nothing at all!!!!  Scared the hell out of me I thought my eyeball was coming out it’s very challenging to drive 40 miles home with my eye swollen shut!!!!!


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## Bill Mattocks (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I have watched a lot of people being knocked out in street encounters lately. Everyone has a cellphone going these days. But I also have seen a lot of unconscious people bounce their head on concrete after falling.
> 
> That's scary and can lead to some extremely serious injuries or death. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Morrison but I have heard him talk about grabbing and striking, so you can control their decent upon knocking them out.
> 
> ...


I'd like to change the subject a bit.  Instead of trying to use only techniques to somehow guarantee a person's noggin doesn't meet the tarmac, how about this - don't go to bars, don't get into fights.  Because anything can happen in a bar fight.  They're chaotic, not controlled fights.



			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article266365056.html
		


Here's one from a couple days ago.  But I've seen many news stories like this.  Two guys get drunk, decide they hate each other, head out to the parking lot for fisticuffs, one guy falls or is knocked down, hits his head, and dies.

Guess what?  Now it's a crime.  Now a person who thought they were standing up for the honor of their pal or proving a point or whatever is now looking at prison time.  Perhaps they'll beat the rap; but they're going to lose their jobs, lose their income, spend some time jail waiting for trial or bail, and spend a fortune in legal fees - and that's if everything goes their way.

Bar fights are stupid.  Unless you're law enforcement, they are 100% avoidable.  Stay the heck out of bars, and at the very least, if someone wants to fight you, leave.

What technique would I use to avoid bouncing someone's brainpan off the parking lot?  Not fighting, that's what technique I would use.  Fighting in parking lots is stupid and it's mostly done by stupid people.


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> Kano excluded techniques that could not be practiced full force, it wasn't about sport, it was about Randoi practice.


Well you said it, "designed".  The practice part is so important, but avoiding injury is probably the coolest thing about arts like Judo, the built in injury prevention techniques that randori and similar sparring are meant to instill.

Throws in every worthwhile throwing art teach throws with different degrees of safety, but Judo is probably the best at it.  You learn to fall first, and you learn to try not to hurt your partner when throwing them (which is really easy to do if you're not careful, in a throwing art).  

You then learn to throw and get thrown harder and harder, but intending to limit/reduce injury as much as possible.  That can be tough if you have to practice getting thrown hard dozens of times in one night.

Without that safety factor, people would drop out of class like flies.  I think it's important to remember just how easy it is to get maimed/murdered with a single strike.  You want practical, effective martial arts, fine but you have to cut pretty close to the bone to get to that level, and every time you train you can break something or worse.

Judoka definitely accidentally get thrown on their heads, after all.  Ish happens.  So design is all well and good, execution is another matter.


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## Oily Dragon (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head. While that is a hard hit, and potentially crippling, I think a judoka could at least articulate that he attempted to throw him on his back. And in all likely the person would not hit his head. Although it's certainly still possible.


Every throwing art worth a damn, should teach properly tucking the chin when getting thrown, because that's what makes the difference between your head splattering on the ground or not.

Even on a mat, you can get KTFO if you don't tuck your grill.  Man, my head is hurting just thinking about how it feels.


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 27, 2022)

Yesterday, my good friend died from a head injury sustained by a hit and run as he crossed the parking lot to a shop. Yesterday, my other very close friend died from accidental overdose due to unknown fentanyl exposure. I found out about them 20 minutes apart. I say all the time that we are very fragile creatures, the proof of that statement hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. Just a fall, or touching a random object that has a poisonous substance on it, and poof we are gone. Keep that in mind fellas, stay safe. I care about all of you.


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## Jared Traveler (Sep 27, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Yesterday, my good friend died from a head injury sustained by a hit and run as he crossed the parking lot to a shop. Yesterday, my other very close friend died from accidental overdose due to unknown fentanyl exposure. I found out about them 20 minutes apart. I say all the time that we are very fragile creatures, the proof of that statement hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. Just a fall, or touching a random object that has a poisonous substance on it, and poof we are gone. Keep that in mind fellas, stay safe. I care about all of you.


I'm sorry to hear that.


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## Steve (Sep 27, 2022)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Bar fights are stupid.  Unless you're law enforcement, they are 100% avoidable.  Stay the heck out of bars, and at the very least, if someone wants to fight you, leave.


great points.  This in particular.


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## Darren (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> I'm sorry to hear that.


Very bad man! I am now convinced I am still here via divine intervention!!! And I just can’t understand that!! Heard about this one guy that got hit in the head just once and died and many more stories like it! I am human just like y’all are just like they were! What the hell makes me so different????


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## frank raud (Sep 27, 2022)

Jared Traveler said:


> An interesting aspect is that judo is designed to thrown an opponent on his back, not his head. While that is a hard hit, and potentially crippling, I think a judoka could at least articulate that he attempted to throw him on his back. And in all likely the person would not hit his head. Although it's certainly still possible.


MOST judo throws will have you land on your side (Ogoshi, Hana Goshi, Makkikomi, etc.) There are judo throws where you will land on your back (Morote gari as an example), but if you don't know how to breakfall, there's a high chance of hitting your head on whatever surface you've been thrown on. Unlike some styles of jiu jitsu, there are no judo throws where the intention is to spike your head into the ground.


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## TularosaKungFu (Sep 28, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> yes i agree & keep you out of jail. however in a brawl on the cobbles it´s not always easy if it´s a fight with more than one person. Nowadays kids will kick you in the head until your passed out or worse. for me it depends on the situation, if i´m fighting for my life...no rules simple as that.


That's right. Any sign or characteristic of gang or typical mindless frenzy and its bye bye black bird.


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 28, 2022)

Wing Woo Gar said:


> Yesterday, my good friend died from a head injury sustained by a hit and run as he crossed the parking lot to a shop. Yesterday, my other very close friend died from accidental overdose due to unknown fentanyl exposure. I found out about them 20 minutes apart. I say all the time that we are very fragile creatures, the proof of that statement hit me like a ton of bricks this morning. Just a fall, or touching a random object that has a poisonous substance on it, and poof we are gone. Keep that in mind fellas, stay safe. I care about all of you.


Hang in there that's a hard loss to have especially back to back.


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## Jimmythebull (Sep 28, 2022)

JowGaWolf said:


> Hang in there that's a hard loss to have especially back to back.


X2


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## Wing Woo Gar (Sep 28, 2022)

Not my best day. Thanks. I’ve lost a lot of folks, these two were real close to my heart.


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## Holmejr (Sep 28, 2022)

Jimmythebull said:


> never been in prison but what´s shocking is i´ve seen Pedophiles & rapists get less time


In some cities they get probation…


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## JowGaWolf (Sep 28, 2022)

drop bear said:


> And the dude that did it is locked up. No bail. And might do 8 years


I took a look at some of the reporting and it sounds like there was more than just that punch going on . Below is one of the things that is being said.
"*Grant Coleman* was arrested and is facing two charges including assault causing death and intentionally choking a person without consent"

Coking a person without consent makes me wonder what's going on in Australia lol.    Other stuff reported makes it sound like the attacker left the scene.  I didn't see anything on why the fight started. I wonder if this was the result of a sucker punch.


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