# Fighting to gain respect.



## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.

Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.


It'd get you respect and an assault charge against you not smart. Only hit him if he hits you otherwise sticks and stones and all that


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

So argue with him and eg him on to hit me first?


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So argue with him and eg him on to hit me first?


No that's still a stupid idea and fighting will only cause more family issues be the bigger person and ignore him. Not everyone has to settled with fighting


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## Hanzou (Jun 18, 2016)

Don't hit him! Grapple with him and make him say uncle.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Don't hit him! Grapple with him and make him say uncle.



Dude. I fvckin love you.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

If it's your house, tell him he's not welcome.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Don't hit him! Grapple with him and make him say uncle.


For an extremely old man, you are pretty funny


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

While Hanzous advice is hilarious, I feel like it actually would work better. No assault charge, and leaves a clear winner, especially if he agreed to a 'friendly grappling/wrestling match' beforehand. No idea if it's a good idea, but probably better than knocking him out


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## zanaffar (Jun 18, 2016)

Make sure you pee on him as well to seal the deal.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

I did it. I judo'd the **** of him. Now he is mad but whatever I won.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

Oh wow, I thought you meant for tomorrow. Well, good for you.
If I could I would both like your post and rate it funny, but sadly I can only do one


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

I thought it was tomorrow too.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

In all the family get togethers I've been to in my life, we've never had anything like that happen . We must be a boring family.


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## RTKDCMB (Jun 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Now he is mad but whatever I won


And what did you win exactly?


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## Buka (Jun 18, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Don't hit him! Grapple with him and make him say uncle.



So good. Epic, even.

Ironbear, chill, my brother. Family isn't something you pick. He doesn't like you because he ain't you.
Just smile at him and be nice, you'll drive him out of his mind.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

RTKDCMB said:


> And what did you win exactly?





Buka said:


> So good. Epic, even.
> 
> Ironbear, chill, my brother. Family isn't something you pick. He doesn't like you because he ain't you.
> Just smile at him and be nice, you'll drive him out of his mind.



I won the match, therefore I feel better.

He said of course I won because I have no life and spent too much time in the gym ;p.

I just said thank you.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

Im guessing its the end of the night by now for you, how did the rest of the night go?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Im guessing its the end of the night by now for you, how did the rest of the night go?



He said he is going to take jiu Jutsu and kick my ***. I said ok I look forward to it. It is going pretty peaceful otherwise.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> He said he is going to take jiu Jutsu and kick my ***. I said ok I look forward to it. It is going pretty peaceful otherwise.


Wouldn't that require him to spend too much time at the gym?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Wouldn't that require him to spend too much time at the gym?



The dude isn't known for being smart. he is the kind of guy that hits his kids, talks down to just about everyone and has the largest theoretical balls in the universe. 

He thinks he is the toughest sob around when he doesnt even train. He doesn't even lift either.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

Hey hanzou. Thanks for the advice. He was very quick to agree to the "wrestling match." Which was pretty quick, he put his hands on my shoulders and try to push me over. It didn't work out in his favor and he ended up on the floor. .

If I had done it my way I would probably have ruined the family get together by actually fighting and maybe worse things could have happened.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The dude isn't known for being smart. he is the kind of guy that hits his kids, talks down to just about everyone and has the largest theoretical balls in the universe.
> 
> He thinks he is the toughest sob around when he doesnt even train. He doesn't even lift either.


Does he drinks a bit?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

Yes he drinks.


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## Tames D (Jun 18, 2016)

He has a lot of bad qualities, but hitting his kids? A big man...


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 18, 2016)

Tames D said:


> He has a lot of bad qualities, but hitting his kids? A big man...



The dudes an *******. That's why I have no problem hitting him, lucky for him I just "guided" him to the ground.


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## Hanzou (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Hey hanzou. Thanks for the advice. He was very quick to agree to the "wrestling match." Which was pretty quick, he put his hands on my shoulders and try to push me over. It didn't work out in his favor and he ended up on the floor. .
> 
> If I had done it my way I would probably have ruined the family get together by actually fighting and maybe worse things could have happened.



Indeed. No need to kick or punch, just agree to "wrestle" with the buffoon where you have a complete advantage. Nothing shows more control than "defeating" someone without actually hurting them.

If he challenges you again, put him in a quick chokehold and make him tap. Chokes scare the crap out of people, and suddenly make them realize that they're way out of their depth. I put a drunk relative in a standing guillotine a few years back because he was verbally abusing his wife, and decided to try to tackle me for "dipping in their business". He took a nice nap on my basement floor.

He's now a respectable family man, at least when he's in my presence.


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Indeed. No need to kick or punch, just agree to "wrestle" with the buffoon where you have a complete advantage. Nothing shows more control than "defeating" someone without actually hurting them.
> 
> If he challenges you again, put him in a quick chokehold and make him tap. Chokes scare the crap out of people, and suddenly make them realize that they're way out of their depth. I put a drunk relative in a standing guillotine a few years back because he was verbally abusing his wife, and decided to try to tackle me for "dipping in their business". He took a nice nap on my basement floor.
> 
> He's now a respectable family man, at least when he's in my presence.


Your extreme old age makes you very wise.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

How old is hanzou?


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> How old is hanzou?


He's gotta be 95. Look at his avatar


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

And that makes it even more impressive that he kicks ***.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tames D said:


> He's gotta be 95. Look at his avatar



Avatars don't exactly reflect your age. This panda for example was like 5 when the photo was taken.

Anyway I am very thankful for his advice. My uncle would have never agreed to a sparring match and if I fought him full on I'd be in deep with my family. The grappling route was perfect to get some aggression out on him.


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## Phobius (Jun 19, 2016)

Starting a fight to earn respect is a double edged sword. You might get the respect from the guy you despise but lose a lot of respect from all those you care about.

Eventually you realize that path makes you into something you yourself can't respect either.


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

Phobius said:


> Starting a fight to earn respect is a double edged sword. You might get the respect from the guy you despise but lose a lot of respect from all those you care about.
> 
> Eventually you realize that path makes you into something you yourself can't respect either.


I think I would have just told the Uncle ahead of time that he's not welcome in my home.


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

And if for no other reason than he beats his children.


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Avatars don't exactly reflect your age. This panda for example was like 5 when the photo was taken.
> 
> Anyway I am very thankful for his advice. My uncle would have never agreed to a sparring match and if I fought him full on I'd be in deep with my family. The grappling route was perfect to get some aggression out on him.


You mean that is not your face in your avatar?


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## MAfreak (Jun 19, 2016)

beating up someone will never give you respect (fear, but not respect), it will let you look like a brainless savage in the eyes of others.


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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

MAfreak said:


> beating up someone will never give you respect (fear, but not respect), it will let you look like a brainless savage in the eyes of others.


I don't think he beat him up. I think he just embarrassed a bully in front of family and friends. He could have done more damage if he chose.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.



I have a better idea. Grow up and act like a man.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Sorry but I don't think what you did was cool at all. Grappling or striking you still started a fight with a guy you knew you could beat and was older than you simply over a few words. So when you go into work and there's someone you don't like are you going to do the same thing and get yourself fired. You may train martial arts but you don't seem to understand the discipline side of it. Only fight if your in danger what happens if you do something like that and embarrass someone they could come back 10 minutes later with a gun and shoot you. Is your pride or honour really worth that. I'm sure you feel proud and cool about it but what respect have you earned? Does anyone actually care what you did. You're an adult it's not like a kid saying oh he was rude so I beat his ***. That may be cool in the playground but in adult life that just seems like a guy with no control


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The dude isn't known for being smart. he is the kind of guy that hits his kids, talks down to just about everyone and has the largest theoretical balls in the universe.
> 
> He thinks he is the toughest sob around when he doesnt even train. He doesn't even lift either.


So what? Lifting weights doesn't make you tough you know neither does martial arts training there are plenty of guys who can simply hard and take a beating and still keep coming without ever stepping in a gym


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> I have a better idea. Grow up and act like a man.



Acting like a man is not an objective thing. Men act differently from other men. 



Kickboxer101 said:


> So what? Lifting weights doesn't make you tough you know neither does martial arts training there are plenty of guys who can simply hard and take a beating and still keep coming without ever stepping in a gym



My point is I don't understand where all his sense of "I'm such a bad *** comes from." He never trained in anything so it makes no sense at all. He wrestled in high school but he never did great or anything from what I hear.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 19, 2016)

It's pretty clear you didn't gain any respect. For what it's worth, you've lost mine.
All you actually did was act like a douchnozzle at a family gathering.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> It's pretty clear you didn't gain any respect. For what it's worth, you've lost mine.
> All you actually did was act like a douchnozzle at a family gathering.



They were entertained. No one was offended aside from him. I'm sorry you cannot respect me but I felt like this needed to be done.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Men act differently from other men.



Men don't beat people up just because they can.
What you did was contemptible.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Acting like a man is not an objective thing. Men act differently from other men.
> 
> 
> 
> My point is I don't understand where all his sense of "I'm such a bad *** comes from." He never trained in anything so it makes no sense at all. He wrestled in high school but he never did great or anything from what I hear.


Like I said training doesn't make you a badass and not training doesn't make you a loser who can't handle himself. At the end of the day all our training means nothing if we get caught with a punch anyone can beat anyone training or no training a 10 year old could come up to me and  punch me and knock me out.


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## Skullpunch (Jun 19, 2016)

Tames D said:


> He has a lot of bad qualities, but hitting his kids? A big man...



I was thinking the same, why not get his *** thrown in jail instead of judo throwing him and risk causing an injury that gets YOU in trouble?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Grappling or striking you still started a fight with a guy you knew you could beat



I didn't know I would beat him. In all honesty I was afraid I'd lose but I just tried my best to put that fear behind me. Grappling is not my strongest area.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I didn't know I would beat him. In all honesty I was afraid I'd lose but I just tried my best to put that fear behind me. Grappling is not my strongest area.


In the end you should realise your whole attitude to this is wrong yes you just grappled in the end but at first you were going to punch him multiple times. The fact you even considered that shows something's wrong. So yes you grappled but tht doesn't make it any less dangerous so you threw the guy or whatever I'm assuming you were in a front room what if he'd smashed his head on a cupboard or a table he could've got serious brain damage or died and you'd be on a manslaughter charge. Best way to avoid it grow up and not fight him. I reckon you should limit your gym time and read up on the proper values and discipline of martial arts


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> In the end you should realise your whole attitude to this is wrong yes you just grappled in the end but at first you were going to punch him multiple times. The fact you even considered that shows something's wrong. So yes you grappled but tht doesn't make it any less dangerous so you threw the guy or whatever I'm assuming you were in a front room what if he'd smashed his head on a cupboard or a table he could've got serious brain damage or died and you'd be on a manslaughter charge. Best way to avoid it grow up and not fight him. I reckon you should limit your gym time and read up on the proper values and discipline of martial arts



Ok. Fine, because I value the criticisms here I will look into that. Are their any readings you recommend?


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Ok. Fine, because I value the criticisms here I will look into that. Are their any readings you recommend?


There's hundreds of books on martial arts and plenty of stuff online I know you do kenpo so ed Parkers infinite insights books are good stuff


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## RTKDCMB (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I felt like this needed to be done.


And obviously also felt the need to tell us about it.


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## Hanzou (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear's uncle was a bully. Ironbear put the bully in his place with his training. I wouldn't be surprised if their interactions are more positive moving forward.

You guys are being a bit too hard on him.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Ironbear's uncle was a bully. Ironbear put the bully in his place with his training. I wouldn't be surprised if their interactions are more positive moving forward.
> 
> You guys are being a bit too hard on him.


There are 2 sides to every story, but to me if this guy was such a jerk and everyone in the family knew it surely they'd not include him in family events especially if it's known he hits his kids. Also ironbear has..no offence to him a tendency to want to prove himself to others and show how good he is and has shown he's not exactly took a high tolerance to insults. At the end of the day the guy wasnt being physical for all we know he could've simply said martial arts suck (which ironbear has gotten into a fight over that subject before)


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## Hanzou (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> There are 2 sides to every story, but to me if this guy was such a jerk and everyone in the family knew it surely they'd not include him in family events especially if it's known he hits his kids. Also ironbear has..no offence to him a tendency to want to prove himself to others and show how good he is and has shown he's not exactly took a high tolerance to insults. At the end of the day the guy wasnt being physical for all we know he could've simply said martial arts suck (which ironbear has gotten into a fight over that subject before)



It was simply a little grappling tussle. You never wrestled with siblings or family members? It's a natural thing that males tend to do to show dominance. Nothing off about it. I grew up with 3 brothers, and we fought all the time. Last time my brothers were over for the holidays my two younger brothers got into a tussle where they ended up rolling around in the backyard for what seemed like an hour. When it was all over my mother and their wives scolded them and they sat at the table and had a good laugh about the whole thing.

Also just because the guy wasn't ostracized from the family doesn't mean he isn't a jerk that deserved to be put in his place. Families tolerate a lot from other family members for a variety of reasons. Maybe he's nice to everyone else, but treats IB like garbage? In the end, no one was hurt, his uncle was brought down a peg, and IB gained some confidence.

What's the problem?


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## mograph (Jun 19, 2016)

Guys like him want a rise out of you to show that they exist, and that they can still _ affect_ other people. If you get mad, he has _affected_ you. So, don't get mad. Try this:

Acting as if you were a really supportive, person-centered shrink might drive him nuts:
"That's terrible! How does that make you feel, Uncle?"
"And then what happened?"
"I understand. That must have been hard for you."
"It's not about me. Tonight, it's about you."
"So, you drank a whole bottle of Aqua-Velva? Wow!"​

Active Listening
Encouraging Body Language
Good Tone
Open Ended and Closed Questions
Paraphrasing
Summarizing

Hah! I feel so evil.
The _best_ outcome would be that you're so good at it, he really opens up. If not, you might just irritate him... but everyone else at the table would have a ball at his expense.
Your call!

By the way, I _have_ to emphasize: I am not a psychologist, nor do I have any clinical training. I am just Some Guy On The Internet and my advice has no therapeutic value. There.

Client Centered (Rogerian)


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Another point is what if he comes back harder at you, if he's an aggressive alcoholic then you doing that could turn verbal abuse into physical abuse and he tries to hurt you to prove himself where he could try and hit you and yes I'm sure you'll say you can take him but that opens up more issues. Now I'm showing myself about how big a geek I am lol but there's a quote from doctor who that I think sums up fighting.

"Violence doesn't end violence it extends It"


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> What's the problem?



The problem is that martial artists are expected to be like Buddhist monks I guess. Not every martial artist is like a grain of rice, we aren't all the same.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The problem is that martial artists are expected to be like Buddhist monks I guess



What, set themselves on fire?

This has nothing to do with being a martial artist and all to do with being a decent human being.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 19, 2016)

mograph said:


> The _best_ outcome would be that you're so good at it, he really opens up. If not, you might just irritate him... but everyone else at the table would have a ball at his expense.


While I agree with most of what you said, I would actually consider this the worst case scenario. It can lead to things that are too deep, and if you don't know how to redirect it to a therapist, they will get overly attached to you. When they discover that you're their friend/coworker/nephew/etc. and not their therapist, **** goes down and not in a fun way.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> What, set themselves on fire?
> 
> This has nothing to do with being a martial artist and all to do with being a decent human being.


Now I don't agree with tex about everything but I do agree on this people simply shouldn't be going round fighting family members training or no training


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> What, set themselves on fire?
> 
> This has nothing to do with being a martial artist and all to do with being a decent human being.



You just took the most extreme example.


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## mograph (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> While I agree with most of what you said, I would actually consider this the worst case scenario. It can lead to things that are too deep, and if you don't know how to redirect it to a therapist, they will get overly attached to you. When they discover that you're their friend/coworker/nephew/etc. and not their therapist, **** goes down and not in a fun way.


You know ... you're right. If he went down that road, it would be hard to know how to turn back. While I don't think that the relationship would be likely to turn into one of transference (given that I think their established non-therapeutic family relationship would largely influence Uncle's reaction), there's a chance it could get weird. So yes, that would be bad.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> You just took the most extreme example.



True but beating up relatives is also somewhat extreme, no?


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## Hanzou (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> True but beating up relatives is also somewhat extreme, no?



Throwing someone to the ground and pinning them down isn't "beating them up".


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Throwing someone to the ground and pinning them down isn't "beating them up".


You do that to someone and do it to them on the street that's considered assault


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> with tex



Tez.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

I understand it wasn't many of your ideal ways to deal with it but let's look at what happened. Here. 

Hey uncle want to have a Judo match? 

"Judo is for pussies let's wrestle."

"They are pretty much the same thing but ok sure."

He tries to push me by the shoulders then I pull on his shirt and get him with a hip throw. He hits the ground and I pin him. He said "holy ****". I helped him up and then he said something like " of course you won, you have no life and spend all your time at the gym."

I simply said thank you. In my head I'm thinking damn would you kill you to be a good sport and say good job? The rest of the day he wasnt angry or anything but later in the day he said he is going to take some bjj to kick my ***. I overhead and said I look forward to it and we all laughed about it.

There was no bloody noses or broken bones or black eyes or anything. In all honesty I thought I was going to lose, if I did I would have been disappointed but it wouldn't be the end of the world or something, I would think about what I did wrong and what I could have done better. 

In all honesty I performed sloppy and used my strength to compensate for poor technique. Grappling is not my strong suit so I figured I would lose but at least I would learn from it.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> You do that to someone and do it to them on the street that's considered assault



Would you rather be punched and kicked or tossed to the ground and pinned until you are too tired to fight?


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

The bit you did most wrong was posting it with 'fighting to gain respect'. Why post, it's a family matter? The problems going on aren't going to be sorted in one Judo/stroke wrestling match, this uncle has what is these days called 'issues'. You may have in the long term made things worst, he could now stew about it, making it into a big issue then come up with something to beat you with, perhaps a weapon because you called him out. You may think you gain respect but he will have taken a blow to his pride, not a good thing in someone who has problems, (it's not that good in those without problems,) no one likes their pride damaged. Situations like this are very difficult to solve, it's not simply a case of peers grappling around and having a drink afterwards though you may think it is. I can't offer you an answer, I can just see that what you've done doesn't solve anything in the long run. Professional help is needed for him.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

What should he be upset about though? Let's think about it. He lost to me, became why? Becuase I practice literally 4-5 days a week for around 3-4 hours. He doesn't do that, he works 9 hour shifts 5 days a week, some weeks he works less depending on what needs to be done, and in his feet time watches sports on television and cooks food.

I am sure if he did what I do he would beat me. I think he understands that too because the comment he made about going to start taking jiu jitsu.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> The bit you did most wrong was posting it with 'fighting to gain respect'. Why post, it's a family matter? The problems going on aren't going to be sorted in one Judo/stroke wrestling match, this uncle has what is these days called 'issues'. You may have in the long term made things worst, he could now stew about it, making it into a big issue then come up with something to beat you with, perhaps a weapon because you called him out. You may think you gain respect but he will have taken a blow to his pride, not a good thing in someone who has problems, (it's not that good in those without problems,) no one likes their pride damaged. Situations like this are very difficult to solve, it's not simply a case of peers grappling around and having a drink afterwards though you may think it is. I can't offer you an answer, I can just see that what you've done doesn't solve anything in the long run. Professional help is needed for him.


Yeah fighting never solves anything when it involves people who know each other if it's a random punk attacking you then fine put them down that's it you'll never see them again most likely but when it's family or friends getting physical over an argument beating them won't solve it. It's not a movie where you win the fight the onlookers cheer and applaud you get the girl and your enemy comes up and bows to you and says "you're alright larusso" nah it doesn't work that way. In reality johnny would've been after Daniel the next day at school to kick his *** even worse. (P.s sorry for the karate kid references but best movie I could think of that explains it lol)


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> *Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...









I do think you really need to sit and think about all of this, I'm sure the uncle is a pain but how much are you emulating him? Also putting him down because he works while you train is wrong of you. Perhaps he'd like to train too but like most people he has to work, maybe that's a reason to resent you. Perhaps though you are giving him reasons to


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I do think you really need to sit and think about all of this, I'm sure the uncle is a pain but how much are you emulating him? Also putting him down because he works while you train is wrong of you. Perhaps he'd like to train too but like most people he has to work, maybe that's a reason to resent you. Perhaps though you are giving him reasons to



I didn't mean that as a put down. That is his responsibility as a father for his family and where much of his time goes too. I'm just saying that is what he does. I am not emulating him, I wrestled a grown adult who consented to it while he strikes children out of frustration. 

This is one of the reasons why his oldest children don't really get along with him. It would be different if I just tackled him and started wailing on him but that is not what happened at all.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 19, 2016)

Cool so you a trained young martial artist put a drunk middle aged guy with no training on his butt you must be proud that'll be something to tell the grandkids.

Look the first post I saw of yours on this site was you all upset about getting in a fight but honestly from what I've read from you you seem like someone who does seem to enjoy it. It doesn't matter if you call them spars or fights if it's not in the club with the instructor watching it's a fight and from your other posts you've said when people say karate sucks you say something back and then a fight starts. You seem to think fighting will prove yourself but it doesn't work like that honestly no one cares who you can beat up. The only record street fighters have are at the police station. Fighting doesn't impress people or at least the right type of people and if people only like you because of a fight or how much you can lift then they're not real friends and don't actually give a damm about you. I doubt your family were that impressed with what you did they were probably a bit embarrassed about it I know if I had a family and 2 guys started fighting or grappling or sparring or whatever you want to call it I'd feel uncomfortable with it


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I didn't mean that as a put down. That is his responsibility as a father for his family and where much of his time goes too. I'm just saying that is what he does. I am not emulating him, I wrestled a grown adult who consented to it while he strikes children out of frustration.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why his oldest children don't really get along with him. It would be different if I just tackled him and started wailing on him but that is not what happened at all.



But according to your original post that's exactly what you were planning on doing to him before the grappling suggestion was made 



Ironbear24 said:


> Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

You may have 'only' thrown him down but it's not what you wanted to do, you wanted to beat him up. Your comment quoted both by me and Kickboxer says you are sick of being everyone's urinal....*so, what is going on that you aren't telling us*? There's far more to this than a stupid uncle isn't there?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> But according to your original post that's exactly what you were planning on doing to him before the grappling suggestion was made


Which is why he posted on here. Either you or Tez were complaining he posted on here, but he did that to get advice, and got the advice to not knock out his uncle and he followed it. Was it the absolute best thing to do? Who knows. We aren't part of the family, we have no idea what would have happened if he dealt with his emotions a different way. Was it better than knocking his uncle out? Most likely. Were there any negative ramifications? It doesn't really seem so, his uncle dealt with it, ironbear felt better and was able to go the rest of the day without the anger. In my family, there would have been issues if I handled it that way, and I assume in yours as well. But without knowing his family situation, how they settle things, or how they react to different things, we can't really judge if he did something bad with his family or not, so there's no point in criticizing without fully understanding.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> You may have 'only' thrown him down but it's not what you wanted to do, you wanted to beat him up. Your comment quoted both by me and Kickboxer says you are sick of being everyone's urinal....*so, what is going on that you aren't telling us*? There's far more to this than a stupid uncle isn't there?



Before hanzou gave me a better alternative yeah. We have fought before but someone always broke us up, and forced us to calm down and apologize to eachother, either his son or one of my other cousins. This was a much better alternative to pounding eachothers faces.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

As for the problems, I don't know what you mean. Me and him have always had an akward relationship ever since he kicked my dog. Since then there is normally tension and everyone else knows it.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Which is why he posted on here. Either you or Tez were complaining he posted on here, but he did that to get advice, and got the advice to not knock out his uncle and he followed it. Was it the absolute best thing to do? Who knows. We aren't part of the family, we have no idea what would have happened if he dealt with his emotions a different way. Was it better than knocking his uncle out? Most likely. Were there any negative ramifications? It doesn't really seem so, his uncle dealt with it, ironbear felt better and was able to go the rest of the day without the anger. In my family, there would have been issues if I handled it that way, and I assume in yours as well. But without knowing his family situation, how they settle things, or how they react to different things, we can't really judge if he did something bad with his family or not, so there's no point in criticizing without fully understanding.



I wasn't complaining, I asked him why he posted it on here.  He wasn't asking for advice he was telling us what he wanted to do to 'get respect'..._from us_, it wasn't about whether he merely took him down or not, what was in his heart was to beat him up and as he's still talking about it I doubt the issue has been resolved for more than today.



Ironbear24 said:


> As for the problems, I don't know what you mean



You do know but you don't have to say, look again at what you said...'*everyone's* urinal' not your uncles but '*everyone*'s'. That's a problem right there.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Which is why he posted on here. Either you or Tez were complaining he posted on here, but he did that to get advice, and got the advice to not knock out his uncle and he followed it. Was it the absolute best thing to do? Who knows. We aren't part of the family, we have no idea what would have happened if he dealt with his emotions a different way. Was it better than knocking his uncle out? Most likely. Were there any negative ramifications? It doesn't really seem so, his uncle dealt with it, ironbear felt better and was able to go the rest of the day without the anger. In my family, there would have been issues if I handled it that way, and I assume in yours as well. But without knowing his family situation, how they settle things, or how they react to different things, we can't really judge if he did something bad with his family or not, so there's no point in criticizing without fully understanding.


Not criticising anyone just stating that fighting doesn't always have the effect people think it does and can make things worse thats all I'm saying I'm not judging anyone. Ironbear I apologise if it seemed I was judging or having a go because I wasn't. Just trying to help and give my opinion no disrespect intended brother


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Not criticising anyone just stating that fighting doesn't always have the effect people think it does and can make things worse thats all I'm saying I'm not judging anyone. Ironbear I apologise if it seemed I was judging or having a go because I wasn't. Just trying to help and give my opinion no disrespect intended brother



No offense taken. I know I have a problem. I am too quick to fight but I don't know how to turn off the problem. Its like Marty McFly from back to he future. You call me chicken I can't help it and he was like biff lowman.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> *everyone's*



You might be right, but I don't know, this also wouldn't be the right place to look into that though. This is martial talk not a psychological help line.


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> No offense taken. I know I have a problem. I am too quick to fight but I don't know how to turn off the problem. Its like Marty McFly from back to he future. You call me chicken I can't help it and he was like biff lowman.


Maybe try things like yoga or breathing exercises or meditation


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I wasn't complaining, I asked him why he posted it on here.  He wasn't asking for advice he was telling us what he wanted to do to 'get respect'..._from us_, it wasn't about whether he merely took him down or not, what was in his heart was to beat him up and as he's still talking about it I doubt the issue has been resolved for more than today.


Ah, there's the difference. I saw it not as him wanting to get respect from us, but posting on here before doing it to see if anyone had objections/better ideas.
Regarding if the conflicts been resolved, I doubt it was, but it was _for the day _which, I'm guessing, is what was more important to him.


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## Tez3 (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Ah, there's the difference. I saw it not as him wanting to get respect from us, but posting on here before doing it to see if anyone had objections/better ideas.
> Regarding if the conflicts been resolved, I doubt it was, but it was _for the day _which, I'm guessing, is what was more important to him.



I'm not actually sure he knew what he meant if I'm honest, whether he wanted us to say don't, offer an alternative or pat him on the back and say well done. It's that which worries me, the posts rock back and forwards from he's as mad as hell to oh he was fine about it. people often sit and brood on things which I think the uncle may well do so next time it will be worse, so a solution just for the day isn't enough, at some point I think Ironbear is going to have to say 'enough' and find a solution for keeps.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> he's as mad as hell to oh he was fine about it



That's how my temper works. I get furious about something then about 10 minutes later I'm calm.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I'm not actually sure he knew what he meant if I'm honest, whether he wanted us to say don't, offer an alternative or pat him on the back and say well done. It's that which worries me, the posts rock back and forwards from he's as mad as hell to oh he was fine about it. people often sit and brood on things which I think the uncle may well do so next time it will be worse, so a solution just for the day isn't enough, at some point I think Ironbear is going to have to say 'enough' and find a solution for keeps.


This just means that he feels a range of emotions when his temper is going, and isn't used to categorizing it. Most people are like this when they get very angry, especially if they're younger...it can lead to issues but it's not something that should 'scare' you for him. If I was his therapist my first objective would be helping him classify his emotions when they start being raised, but as he pointed out, we are not, and it would be close to malpractice (IMO, plenty disagree with this) to offer therapy online, especially in a forum like this. He also wasn't asking for advice about his mental health here and, I think (feel free to disagree), came on for help dealing with that particular day, which he navigated through.

Ironbear- Since its being addressed and i dont like talking 'through' someone... as has been stated in the past and I think you know, you would benefit from therapy focused around (the cause of) your ego and/or anger management. You went through this situation well, but there may be others in the future that get you in trouble.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> You went through this situation well, but there may be others in the future that get you in trouble.



Considering I have been in 3 fights this year, yeah I think I have a problem. All 3 were stupid and not threats agaisnt my life, first one was this guy at a friend's party. He was egging me on but I could have walked away, I chose not to, second one was the pfft karate sucks comment, I replied with pfft your mom sucks. That lead to another fight. 

3rd one was yesterday.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Considering I have been in 3 fights this year, yeah I think I have a problem. All 3 were stupid and not threats agaisnt my life, first one was this guy at a friend's party. He was egging me on but I could have walked away, I chose not to, second one was the pfft karate sucks comment, I replied with pfft your mom sucks. That lead to another fight.
> 
> 3rd one was yesterday.


I thought those first two were the same thing, where you were at a friends birthday and they made that comment so you got in a fight?


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> I thought those first two were the same thing, where you were at a friends birthday and they made that comment so you got in a fight?



Similar but not the same. I don't remember how but the fact I practice it came up and he said something like "martial arts are all ********. Real fighting is learned on the streets and in prison." That lead up to the fighting after some back and forth arguing. I insulted him by saying I don't fight kids and he swung. 

The other time was me and some guys at the gym were talking about what martial arts we practice. A couple of them said boxing and the guy who made the karate sucks comment said he does something, I don't remember what it was. Then I said I do kenpo. He said what the @#$% is that? I said it's a type of karate. Then he made the karate sucks comment and I said your mom sucks. 

That lead to him saying "oh ok well how about we spar?" I said sure, and he got some good hits in but I did what I call being "bullheaded" and fought through it and hit him back even harder than he hit me. He had fast hands and I couldn't block it all, he called the fight and said ok man you got me. 

Then an employee came by and said if she sees us doing that she will ban all of us from the gym so now we don't do that anymore.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.



Good lord.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> No offense taken. I know I have a problem. I am too quick to fight but I don't know how to turn off the problem. Its like Marty McFly from back to he future. You call me chicken I can't help it and he was like biff lowman.


Well at least you know you have a problem which means that you can actually do something about it if you want.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The problem is that martial artists are expected to be like Buddhist monks I guess. Not every martial artist is like a grain of rice, we aren't all the same.



This isn't about being a martial artist. This is about being an adult and dealing with things in a mature, non-douchebaggy manner.
You succeeded in beating someone up. You failed at gaining their respect, you lost the respect of others, and you totally  failed at dealing with conflict in a mature, non-douchebaggy manner.


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## Azulx (Jun 19, 2016)

@Ironbear24 tell 'em "Put some respek on my name!"


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Dirty Dog said:


> This isn't about being a martial artist. This is about being an adult and dealing with things in a mature, non-douchebaggy manner.
> You succeeded in beating someone up. You failed at gaining their respect, you lost the respect of others, and you totally  failed at dealing with conflict in a mature, non-douchebaggy manner.



I won't argue with you or try to change your mind. You seem pretty set in stone on this.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Maybe try things like yoga or breathing exercises or meditation



I do some breathing exercises sizes in tai chi but that only relaxes me while I am doing it. How do these activities prevent anger exactly? Are you supposed to do them while you are angry?


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Considering I have been in 3 fights this year, yeah I think I have a problem. All 3 were stupid and not threats agaisnt my life, first one was this guy at a friend's party. He was egging me on but I could have walked away, I chose not to, second one was the pfft karate sucks comment, I replied with pfft your mom sucks. That lead to another fight.
> 
> 3rd one was yesterday.


Dang.  How do you get into so many fights?  Keep in mind that once you become known for getting into fights it'll become difficult to have someone believe that you didn't try to start it.  This in itself will make it more difficult when it comes to legal issues.  If you feel the need to fight then I would recommend that you do it professionally.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

I want to do it professionally and will when I have more training under my belt. Right now people me the chingaso. Spanish for "hitter "


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I want to do it professionally and will when I have more training under my belt. Right now people me the chingaso. Spanish for "hitter "


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't think that word means what you think it means.



Pulling an Inigo Montoya on me?


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Pulling an Inigo Montoya on me?


Just sayin, hermanito.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 19, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't think that word means what you think it means.


ha ha ha.  I thought the same.  Maybe that translation was the polite way of saying messing someone up.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> Just sayin, hermanito.



Siempre he oido como tipo duro . El tipo de persona que se mete en peleas .


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 19, 2016)

If you say so.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 19, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> If you say so.



Are you talking about chingada? That is the bad one.


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## Bill Mattocks (Jun 19, 2016)




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## Tames D (Jun 19, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> Siempre he oido como tipo duro . El tipo de persona que se mete en peleas .


that's what they all say...


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## Brian King (Jun 20, 2016)

When dealing with adult bullies and child abusers (i.e. hitting his kids) it is very important to consider the effects of the 'fight' on the bully and his kids (and likely wife) Often when a bully loses 'face' especially in front of others they will take out their frustrations on somebody weaker than themselves. They lose a fight and then go find someone weaker and 'win back their respect'. Gang bangers often act out the same behavior pattern.

You 'win' the fight but the kids, wife or some weaker stranger takes your beating.

Not saying a beating is always wrong - but there should be purpose behind it if it is entertained. It should be serious work done very calmly.

Glad you were able to resolve your uncles and your issues at least for the evening Ironbear24. Are you going to be wrestling him at every family gathering?

Regards
Brian King


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 20, 2016)

Brian King said:


> Are you going to be wrestling him at every family gathering?



If he chooses to do so sure.


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## Brian King (Jun 20, 2016)

And the definition of insanity is...

I hope it works out for you and your family. Do try to find alternative ways to help your family other than violence. Violence should really be the last resort and done deliberately, calmly and for a greater purpose. Good luck.

Regards
Brian King


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> This just means that he feels a range of emotions when his temper is going, and isn't used to categorizing it. Most people are like this when they get very angry, especially if they're younger...it can lead to issues but it's not something that should 'scare' you for him. If I was his therapist my first objective would be helping him classify his emotions when they start being raised, but as he pointed out, we are not, and it would be close to malpractice (IMO, plenty disagree with this) to offer therapy online, especially in a forum like this. He also wasn't asking for advice about his mental health here and, I think (feel free to disagree), came on for help dealing with that particular day, which he navigated through.
> 
> Ironbear- Since its being addressed and i dont like talking 'through' someone... as has been stated in the past and I think you know, you would benefit from therapy focused around (the cause of) your ego and/or anger management. You went through this situation well, but there may be others in the future that get you in trouble.



He has already posted up about his anger etc. He is using this site as some sort of therapy/validation and posts up a lot about himself. Also changing the stories doesn't help.

Fighting professionally won't help, if anything it would make it worse. To fight professionally you need dedication to training to improve not to bulk up your ego, anger has no place in a professional fight, no coach wants an undisciplined fighter nor any promoter. You will be untouchable in the pro world.


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## Phobius (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> He has already posted up about his anger etc. He is using this site as some sort of therapy/validation and posts up a lot about himself. Also changing the stories doesn't help.
> 
> Fighting professionally won't help, if anything it would make it worse. To fight professionally you need dedication to training to improve not to bulk up your ego, anger has no place in a professional fight, no coach wants an undisciplined fighter nor any promoter. You will be untouchable in the pro world.



This is the sad part. He is so eager to become his best, and yet he is so unwilling to fight for it.

Fighting for him does not mean using fist or wrestle. Fighting for Ironbear24 is to stay ground and keep his temper under control. He lost this time and failed to prove his worth.

Swallow your pride is the fight you fear to take Ironbear24 and as such you took an easy way out. Anyone can take an easy way out.

This is not some monk talk. If you see him beat up someone you may intervene and if necessary knock his *** to the ground. Same if you had no desire to beat his *** you may spar or grapple as much as you like.


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## RTKDCMB (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> The problem is that martial artists are expected to be like Buddhist monks I guess.


Nope, just show a modicum of common sense and self control.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I won't argue with you or try to change your mind. You seem pretty set in stone on this.



I am. You've been in more than one fight recently that was totally avoidable, and clearly think that's OK.
And that is reprehensible.
In my personal opinion, instead of learning to hurt people more severely, with less effort, your time would be better spent learning how to be a descent human being.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I want to do it professionally and will when I have more training under my belt. Right now people me the chingaso. Spanish for "hitter "



And the fact that you're not ashamed of this says volumes.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> I do some breathing exercises sizes in tai chi but that only relaxes me while I am doing it. How do these activities prevent anger exactly? Are you supposed to do them while you are angry?


Yes. When you notice the anger starting, do the exercises.


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## Phobius (Jun 20, 2016)

One question, how would you react if another student at practise said you have a shitty weak punch or kick. What would you do when sparring him just moments later? Show him how wrong he was by punching him or kicking him full force?

Where do you draw the line?


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Bill Mattocks said:


> I don't think that word means what you think it means.



I put it on Google translate, I can see why 'Bing' and a couple of other sites wouldn't translate it. Just wow, why would you even tell anyone you were called that?


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## Steve (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> True but beating up relatives is also somewhat extreme, no?


Okay.   Have to raise the BS flag here.   Tez, aren't you the one who relates fond stories about squaddies getting into fights with each other and with civilians?   I recall you even saying you allowed a squaddy to get a punch or two in before yiu arrested him.  

There is a clear double standard here.  What happened to your "boys will be boys" ideas?

i don't  like at all this idea of calling out a relative in public.   Lots of unnecessary drama, and while the uncle may have earned his whoopin', situations like that just make everyone look and feel bad.

However, I also disagree with tez3's excuses for similar behavior in the past.   

And more than anything, the hypocrisy is killing me.   Lots of judging of iron bear going on here.   If you're going to jump into the fray, at least make sure you haven't endorsed similar behavior in the past.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 20, 2016)

Well people can say stuff about ironbear but have a look at the popular discussions 3 of his threads are on the most popular list. Well he gets people talking at the very least lol


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Well people can say stuff about ironbear but have a look at the popular discussions 3 of his threads are on the most popular list. Well he gets people talking at the very least lol



That    is    not   a   good   thing.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> That    is    not   a   good   thing.


Yes it was a joke


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## Tames D (Jun 20, 2016)

It's good for MartialTalk.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Yes it was a joke



if you have to explain that...it wasn't a joke.


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## Spinedoc (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> So I got some family visiting for fathers day and my uncle made a very rude comment about me. We have had an ongoing case of bad blood with eachother since I was 13. Contemplating going up to him and socking him in the face, following it up with some more as well.
> 
> Maybe that would get me some damn respect, sick of being everyone's damn urinal.




You're looking at this wrong. The fight is not with your Uncle, but rather with yourself. It is only your perception that you need to battle.

You won't win any respect fighting. You can only lose respect. I hope that makes sense. Unless he attacks you physically, you have nothing to gain.


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## Steve (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> if you have to explain that...it wasn't a joke.


so... Much... Irony.   Particularly Fun, because it was unexpected.


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## Kevin__Huang (Jun 20, 2016)

Spinedoc said:


> You're looking at this wrong. The fight is not with your Uncle, but rather with yourself. It is only your perception that you need to battle.
> 
> You won't win any respect fighting. You can only lose respect. I hope that makes sense. Unless he attacks you physically, you have nothing to gain.


Good point. I agree with you [emoji106] 

Sent from my D2305 using Tapatalk


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 20, 2016)

Phobius said:


> One question, how would you react if another student at practise said you have a shitty weak punch or kick. What would you do when sparring him just moments later? Show him how wrong he was by punching him or kicking him full force?
> 
> Where do you draw the line?



That has happened before, I take it as constructive criticism and don't get angry about it. The students and sifu do things like that to help us get it right.


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 20, 2016)

Ironbear24 said:


> That has happened before, I take it as constructive criticism and don't get angry about it. The students and sifu do things like that to help us get it right.


So you get angry when someone says karate sucks but you don't mind when someone says your punch sucks? Can you see why some people have a hard time keeping up with things with you


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 20, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> So you get angry when someone says karate sucks but you don't mind when someone says your punch sucks? Can you see why some people have a hard time keeping up with things with you



It's about the intent behind it. For example I have shown video of myself here hitting a punching bag in two separate occasions. Some people said they were weak and I was punching incorrectly. I did not get angry I asked what I could do better, then people told me what I could do better and I practiced that way.

Couple months later I got much better.


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> anger has no place in a professional fight, no coach wants an undisciplined fighter nor any promoter.


This is why I mentioned professional fighting.  He'll either learn how to deal with that anger through training, punching the bag, and fighting without being angry  or he'll wash out.
Fighting without anger makes the person a better fighter, so ironbear will have a choice.  Either lose the anger or fail at becoming a skilled fighter.  At the moment he doesn't have an "either or" decision yet because fighting seem to be the only solution he's looking at and winning is the only outcome.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> This is why I mentioned professional fighting.  He'll either learn how to deal with that anger through training, punching the bag, and fighting without being angry  or he'll wash out.
> Fighting without anger makes the person a better fighter, so ironbear will have a choice.  Either lose the anger or fail at becoming a skilled fighter.  At the moment he doesn't have an "either or" decision yet because fighting seem to be the only solution he's looking at and winning is the only outcome.



To be honest there's enough honest straight forward young up and coming fighters who deserve a fair go that we really don't need someone who is going to be randomly beating people up because they think he's pants.


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## Ironbear24 (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> To be honest there's enough honest straight forward young up and coming fighters who deserve a fair go that we really don't need someone who is going to be randomly beating people up because they think he's pants.



But I'm young and upcoming. Many people say I have lots of potential. My attitude can change it is just hard to change it over night.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Hanzou said:


> Don't hit him! Grapple with him and make him say uncle.


I love this idea lol


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## JowGaWolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> To be honest there's enough honest straight forward young up and coming fighters who deserve a fair go that we really don't need someone who is going to be randomly beating people up because they think he's pants.


A fair go is a fair go.  People either make it on their skills or not. Behavioral issues can be addressed as terms of training.Tyson wasn't a role model when he first started  boxing and he did far more than what ironbear has done.  It's clear that ironbear wants to be recognized as a good fighter so it only makes sense that he puts himself in the environment that allows him to do that professionally, instead of trying to prove it on the streets.  There are a lot of high quality athletes that have stated how sports kept them out of trouble and changed them from being a thug on the street to someone respectful. 

The problem now is that ironbear is trying to gain respect from people who really don't matter in the world of fighters.  The fights that he won weren't impressive and wouldn't even rank in terms of "street credit." (no offense ironbear).  He would better serve himself and his issues by fighting competitively where someone can lay the hurt on him just as easily as he can hurt someone else.  All the talk of him needing to be Mature would work it's way out better in the ring than in the streets.  That way he can find out what fighting really is and what it really isn't.  He'll have role models and mentors that can help him with being "Mature."   He won't change until he has a chance to be in the same environment as other fighters so he can see what it's all about and how they deal with similar issues.  Right now, ironbear is kind of in his own box trying to figure stuff out on his own which isn't always the best course of action.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

JowGaWolf said:


> Tyson wasn't a role model when he first started boxing



Tyson has never been a role model and isn't the best person to use to demonstrate the benefits of a fight career.
What you are saying is what would happen in an ideal world, the 'bad' boy turned around to become the role model however the stark truth is as I said, there's plenty of up and coming fighters who work hard and push themselves without having any issues to work out. Coaches and promoters who are in the business to hopefully make a living haven't got the time or wherewithal to take on troubled teens. However I know several clubs who would be willing to take one on but they aren't ranked high for pro fighters so it's swings and roundabouts. The big pro gyms don't have time for the troubled, the small amateur clubs do. If Ironbear were in the UK I know exactly who I'd send him to but whether he ended up with a pro fighting career would frankly be debatable because of the reasons I've detailed. Harsh yes but it's similar to the acting, music and writing world, so many are trying to break through.
I would say though that he must get rid of any perceptions by people that he is a brawler or will fight when he loses his temper over nothing. I'd suggest he leaves home and moves somewhere he's not known and can train with a reputable gym and coaches, basically he has to reinvent himself. What that means in the way of help for his anger, self esteem problems etc I can't tell, hopefully though a fresh start somewhere away from everything can help.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

I understand what you are going through cause I went through kinda the same thing when I first starting training I had people going your to big to do this this and that or oh you cant do that oh you cant do this  but being a young hot had I got pissed out and show boated and I actually had a a situation where a guy said I could kick I kicked a dude so hard he literally flipped and I kicked another guy so hard he limped for like three months im not telling you these things to brag Im telling you these things to high light how stupid they were and how naïve and immature I was to let peoples words get to me people can really say what they want its part of the trails of becoming a  true martial artist and as you grow in martial arts age you will see how peoples words don't effect you as much  being martial fighter when somebody say you cant do this you cant do that it might feel like a challenge and  that spirit inside of you naturally  wants to do battle with a jerk who is calling you out but maturity in the martial arts is knowing somebody jerk calling you out it just someone trying to a tough guy or just wants a show and just isn't worth and also knowing that martial arts is meant to protect yourself your loved ones and what ever else now tournaments mma fights competition those  all places where we can hang out and cut loose and have fun you know but outside those events you don't have to prove anything to anybody no matter how much they taunt get press buttons most of the time that comes out of jealousy them being uncomfortable with themselves or whatever the case maybe those type of people need to be ignored I had to learn  the lessons the hard way and sometimes it does get really really hard but the stronger you get mentally and the more you grow into yourself as a martial artist and you know certain things in the end you will look back and realize a lot mainly that you are glad you didn't fall into people trap and that you are wayyy better then that


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> I understand what you are going through cause I went through kinda the same thing when I first starting training I had people going your to big to do this this and that or oh you cant do that oh you cant do this  but being a young hot had I got pissed out and show boated and I actually had a a situation where a guy said I could kick I kicked a dude so hard he literally flipped and I kicked another guy so hard he limped for like three months im not telling you these things to brag Im telling you these things to high light how stupid they were and how naïve and immature I was to let peoples words get to me people can really say what they want its part of the trails of becoming a  true martial artist and as you grow in martial arts age you will see how peoples words don't effect you as much  being martial fighter when somebody say you cant do this you cant do that it might feel like a challenge and  that spirit inside of you naturally  wants to do battle with a jerk who is calling you out but maturity in the martial arts is knowing somebody jerk calling you out it just someone trying to a tough guy or just wants a show and just isn't worth and also knowing that martial arts is meant to protect yourself your loved ones and what ever else now tournaments mma fights competition those  all places where we can hang out and cut loose and have fun you know but outside those events you don't have to prove anything to anybody no matter how much they taunt get press buttons most of the time that comes out of jealousy them being uncomfortable with themselves or whatever the case maybe those type of people need to be ignored I had to learn  the lessons the hard way and sometimes it does get really really hard but the stronger you get mentally and the more you grow into yourself as a martial artist and you know certain things in the end you will look back and realize a lot mainly that you are glad you didn't fall into people trap and that you are wayyy better then that



I know this is good heartfelt advice but please could you use punctuation? I got out of breath reading it! it is rather good as one sentence though.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I know this is good heartfelt advice but please could you use punctuation? I got out of breath reading it! it is rather good as one sentence though.


I like writing like this I don't very formal sentence structures when im on a forums site I do it in my professional and school life just something I refuse to do when im online just for fun


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> I like writing like this I don't very formal sentence structures when im on a forums site I do it in my professional and school life just something I refuse to do when im online just for fun



Ah but it's very hard to read and many won't bother.


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## Spinedoc (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Ah but it's very hard to read and many won't bother.



Exactly, I started to read it, and then just gave up...not worth the time.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Spinedoc said:


> Exactly, I started to read it, and then just gave up...not worth the time.



It's also a bit disrespectful to other posters in that you don't think we are worth using proper English for.


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## Tames D (Jun 20, 2016)

Spinedoc said:


> Exactly, I started to read it, and then just gave up...not worth the time.


I didn't even start reading it. It looked like a steep hill to climb, if you know what I mean.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

well I put it like this ok if you don't like it or don't like the way I write then don't read that's all I have to say how  I choose to write in my personal time is my own choice that post was meant for one person I didn't come on here to get a English lesson and I sure you guys aren't on here to give them so you guys aren't stupid you know when to breathe while reading something or when to stop I joined this forums to talk about my way of life martial arts period I use proper English in my professional life all the time so like I said when I don't want to I wont do it I didn't say you guys weren't worth  me using proper grammar I just don't feel it excuse the hell out of me if I don't want  you guys grammar cops so leave it alone im not stupid if I chose to do it then I will my post was meant to make a fellow warrior feel better so thank you for you criticism and talking like I wasn't here I truly appreciate 
 only thing wrong with my post is that it didn't have  punctuation in it thank you very much for being jerks I really like that I wasn't bothering you so if you didn't have something positive say leave it alone period


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## Troubadour (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> well I put it like this ok if you don't like it or don't like the way I write then don't read



All they were saying is that if you WANT to be heard, then use punctuation, otherwise they won't read it, just like you said. 

Totally your choice. Just keep in mind you might be ignored, since it's a pain to read.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

how is it a pain to read if you reading to yourself

being critical about every little thing on here is ok its not like im using slang or anything like that that's the problem with people instead of accepting people for who they are you try to change them

its not like im insulting someones are or bashing people then I might understand a little better but I don't


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## Tames D (Jun 20, 2016)




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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tames D said:


> View attachment 19938


is this supposed to be funny or something cause its really rude


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> is this supposed to be funny or something cause its really rude


ok thank for being a jerk


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tames D said:


> View attachment 19938


really dude


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> well I put it like this ok if you don't like it or don't like the way I write then don't read that's all I have to say how  I choose to write in my personal time is my own choice that post was meant for one person I didn't come on here to get a English lesson and I sure you guys aren't on here to give them so you guys aren't stupid you know when to breathe while reading something or when to stop I joined this forums to talk about my way of life martial arts period I use proper English in my professional life all the time so like I said when I don't want to I wont do it I didn't say you guys weren't worth  me using proper grammar I just don't feel it excuse the hell out of me if I don't want  you guys grammar cops so leave it alone im not stupid if I chose to do it then I will my post was meant to make a fellow warrior feel better so thank you for you criticism and talking like I wasn't here I truly appreciate
> only thing wrong with my post is that it didn't have  punctuation in it thank you very much for being jerks I really like that I wasn't bothering you so if you didn't have something positive say leave it alone period


Quite honestly i didn't even notice there was no punctuation until the people pointing it out. Got to love grammar nazis on a martial arts forum


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Quite honestly i didn't even notice there was no punctuation until the people pointing it out. Got to love grammar nazis on a martial arts forum


i dont understand it they get caught up on little things and miss the big picture and people are really rude about it i don't understand


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## Kenpoguy123 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> i dont understand it they get caught up on little things and miss the big picture and people are really rude about it i don't understand


Probably a bit of both


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves, your age says 24 but you talk about 'schoolwork' how old are you actually?
I don't think you understand what we are here, we aren't being jerks but *we are all serious,* *professional* ( whether paid or not) *martial artists, many are instructors*, *most have been* *training for many years*, _it's a serious place to discuss martial arts and things related_ _to that_. As well as being martial artists many of us are also professional people and we do tend to carry that over on here. We do like a laugh, we do try to help, yes we tend to argue but it's with punctuation!
If you write posts on here it's, we assume, to communicate with others, if it's a post aimed at just one then a PM is best. if you just post a stream of consciousness you are telling us you don't think we are worth the effort of writing in a way we can respond to. I'm afraid it is disrespectful to posters here, certainly your latter posts are just petulant. It's not about accepting people as they are, you'll find that posters here do but that's a two way thing, you aren't accepting the way we are here. We like things perhaps more academic than the social media you are used to, that's just the way it is here.



Kenpoguy123 said:


> Quite honestly i didn't even notice there was no punctuation until the people pointing it out. Got to love grammar nazis on a martial arts forum



Incorrect for a number of reasons. Prose without punctuation...the grammar doesn't matter and no one was picking him up on it.... is very difficult to read. Without punctuation there is no sense in what is said so it comes out as nonsense. Without punctuation you can inadvertently say something you don't mean. You must have seem the meme, "proper punctuation and grammar means the difference between... Helping your Uncle, Jack, off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> It's also a bit disrespectful to other posters in that you don't think we are worth using proper English for.


and it not that i don't think somebody with worth using it this is supposed to be talking about martial art related stuff why be a grammar officer  and why do you need to breathe while reading something in your head


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> i dont understand it they get caught up on little things and miss the big picture and people are really rude about it i don't understand



It's because no one can read your posts so there is no bigger picture only you helping uncle jack.........


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> and it not that i don't think somebody with worth using it this is supposed to be talking about martial art related stuff why be a grammar officer  and_ why do you need to breathe while reading something in your head_




I think you might need to go to the QMs and sign out a sense of humour......


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> It's because no one can reading your posts so there is no bigger picture only you helping uncle jack.........


why cant you read it is it in another language of some sorts and i think what you were trying to say is " no one can read your post " which i don't understand why you couldn't its in plain English


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> well I put it like this ok if you don't like it or don't like the way I write then don't read that's all I have to say how  I choose to write in my personal time is my own choice that post was meant for one person I didn't come on here to get a English lesson and I sure you guys aren't on here to give them so you guys aren't stupid you know when to breathe while reading something or when to stop I joined this forums to talk about my way of life martial arts period I use proper English in my professional life all the time so like I said when I don't want to I wont do it I didn't say you guys weren't worth  me using proper grammar I just don't feel it excuse the hell out of me if I don't want  you guys grammar cops so leave it alone im not stupid if I chose to do it then I will my post was meant to make a fellow warrior feel better so thank you for you criticism and talking like I wasn't here I truly appreciate
> only thing wrong with my post is that it didn't have  punctuation in it thank you very much for being jerks I really like that I wasn't bothering you so if you didn't have something positive say leave it alone period


Man WTF is wrong with you you're not writing to an A star grade see me after class for extra work and a detention. 

Lol seriously people having a go at someone for not writing correctly? Tez said it's disrespectful not writing in the proper language I think it's more disrespectful having a go at someone for their choices. Anyway yes he chooses to write like that and it's his choice but you didnt know that at first he might've been dyslexic or had learning difficulties or English might not have been his first language. You didnt know if that was the case or not imagine if he did have that and he's got people making him feel worse. People need to think about other people's feelings and like what's been said this is a martial arts forum not a story writing website.


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## Tames D (Jun 20, 2016)

Kenpoguy123 said:


> Quite honestly i didn't even notice there was no punctuation until the people pointing it out. Got to love grammar nazis on a martial arts forum


Personally, I'm not a stickler for grammar. But if all I see is a wall of words with no organization, I won't read it. Not trying to be rude. 
If it was written with perfect punctuation, but in Spanish, I wouldn't read it either.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Man WTF is wrong with you you're not writing to an A star grade see me after class for extra work and a detention.
> 
> Lol seriously people having a go at someone for not writing correctly? Tez said it's disrespectful not writing in the proper language I think it's more disrespectful having a go at someone for their choices. Anyway yes he chooses to write like that and it's his choice but you didnt know that at first he might've been dyslexic or had learning difficulties or English might not have been his first language. You didnt know if that was the case or not imagine if he did have that and he's got people making him feel worse. People need to think about other people's feelings and like what's been said this is a martial arts forum not a story writing website.



He's not dyslexic, he says he can write perfectly well in his 'professional life he just choses not to here. I assume you don't know that because you can't read his posts.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> I think you might need to go to the QMs and sign out a sense of humour......


 i do have a sense of humor i just didn't think what you said was funny its rude and my comment wasnt directed towards you it was direct towards another and you felt the need to comment on it cause   of  simply grammar situation and then continue to talk about it like i wouldn't see the comments or something i haven't been rude or anything to you  and then claim its disrespectful  and say i don't find people worth to use punctuation your assuming something that isn't true and making it look sound like i don't think much of people


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Well, since this conversation has changed completely, might as well add my own point. When you write long confusing paragraphs with no punctuation or organization, I don't read it. I didn't feel a need to point it out, and chose not to read it instead, and I'm sure that I am not alone in this. 

If you want more people to read what you're writing, or to take it more seriously, write in at least a semi-proper way. If you don't care, then continue as you are


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> I do have a sense of humor, I just didn't think what you said was funny. It's rude and my comment wasn't directed towards you, it was direct towards another and you felt the need to comment on it because   of  simply grammar situation.  Then continue to talk about it like I wouldn't see the comments or something. I haven't been rude or anything to you,  and then claim it's disrespectful  as well as saying I don't find people worthy of  using punctuation for. You're assuming something that isn't true and making it look sound like I don't think much of people



Sorted for you.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Man WTF is wrong with you you're not writing to an A star grade see me after class for extra work and a detention.
> 
> Lol seriously people having a go at someone for not writing correctly? Tez said it's disrespectful not writing in the proper language I think it's more disrespectful having a go at someone for their choices. Anyway yes he chooses to write like that and it's his choice but you didnt know that at first he might've been dyslexic or had learning difficulties or English might not have been his first language. You didnt know if that was the case or not imagine if he did have that and he's got people making him feel worse. People need to think about other people's feelings and like what's been said this is a martial arts forum not a story writing website.


idk man if i thought i was writing in proper English and btw English is my first language im from the states lol i just don't understand why everyone is so hung up on it


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## Kickboxer101 (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> He's not dyslexic, he says he can write perfectly well in his 'professional life he just choses not to here. I assume you don't know that because you can't read his posts.


Well you obviously can read them since you know what's in them so what's the issue?


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

kempodisciple said:


> Well, since this conversation has changed completely, might as well add my own point. When you write long confusing paragraphs with no punctuation or organization, I don't read it. I didn't feel a need to point it out, and chose not to read it instead, and I'm sure that I am not alone in this.
> 
> If you want more people to read what you're writing, or to take it more seriously, write in at least a semi-proper way. If you don't care, then continue as you are


what is not poper about it other then the fact i don't use punctuation i seriously want to know


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> I don't know, man, if I thought I was writing in proper English and btw English is my first language, I'm from the States lol I just don't understand why everyone is so hung up on it



because we can't read what you write and we'd like to. If we didn't want to communicate with you we'd all ignore you, we want to know what you are saying.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tames D said:


> Personally, I'm not a stickler for grammar. But if all I see is a wall of words with no organization, I won't read it. Not trying to be rude.
> If it was written with perfect punctuation, but in Spanish, I wouldn't read it either.


how does it not have organization its not like these words are jumbled or what im trying to say is plain English


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> what is not poper about it other then the fact i don't use punctuation i seriously want to know


That is what is not proper. Punctuation is important as it gives you a way to focus on what you are writing and prevent it from rambling, and it allows others to understand it in the way you intend as well. Otherwise we are stuck trying to decipher what you are writing. There's  a reason english teachers teach punctuation, and it's not just because they find it fun to frustrate their students.


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> how does it not have organization its not like these words are jumbled or what im trying to say is plain English


The punctuation _*is *_what organizes it.


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> because we can't read what you write and we'd like to. If we didn't want to communicate with you we'd all ignore you, we want to know what you are saying.


how can you not understand what im saying cause there aren't any punctuation marks really that's stops you from understand what im talking about


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Kickboxer101 said:


> Well you obviously can read them since you know what's in them so what's the issue?



Actually it took me far longer than it should staring at the screen deciphering it, I had to take a break from the computer because my eyes were hurting afterwards. It was unpleasant and pointless, I shan't be doing it again.


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## Tez3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Back to the OP I think, no?


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## sgraves (Jun 20, 2016)

Tez3 said:


> Actually it took me far longer than it should staring at the screen deciphering it, I had to take a break from the computer because my eyes were hurting afterwards. It was unpleasant and pointless, I shan't be doing it again.


deciphering  what its not like they are Chinese characters its plain English


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## jks9199 (Jun 20, 2016)

Folks,
We have rule that posting is generally to be in English, and that it should generally follow basic rules of grammar.  That said, MT isn't English Comp 101, so we hope everyone can meet somewhere in the middle.  If everyone makes a tolerable effort to write so that they can be understood, and not attack each other over the finer points of the pluperfect tense...  Why, we might just be able to actually communicate and discuss the posts rather than the way they're posted.

With that said, perhaps we could try to get back to the original topic; wasn't it something about a family dispute?


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

20 Images That Prove Grammar and Punctuation Are Important | Pleated-Jeans.com


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## Monkey Turned Wolf (Jun 20, 2016)

Anyway, back to the OP...I presume someone was either defending ironbear, attacking him, or both?


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## Tames D (Jun 20, 2016)

sgraves said:


> how does it not have organization its not like these words are jumbled or what im trying to say is plain English


You are correct. I don't know what I was thinking.


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## Dirty Dog (Jun 20, 2016)

Thread locked pending staff review.


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