# so bak do moo du kwan?



## hwarang_do_adam (Jun 21, 2008)

can anyone tell me about this martial art and how bad i spelled the name.


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## exile (Jun 21, 2008)

hwarang_do_adam said:


> can anyone tell me about this martial art and how bad i spelled the name.



Moo Duk Kwan was one of the 'original five kwans', whose founder, Hwang Kee, refused to join in the fusion of the kwans in the early 1960s that became institutional TKD. Some of the MDK rebelled, however, and went with the other Kwans; they identified themselves as MDK TKD. The remainder of the MDK identified their art by the once-common general term for the karate that the kwans originally taught after their founders (apart from HK) came back from their training in Japan: tangsoodo, which is a translation of _karate-do_ under the original 'China hand' transliteration. Later, he changed the name of the art to Soo Bahk Do (or some spelling variant thereof). So MDK SBD is basically the kwan art that HK originally taught, several decades down the line. 

MBuzzy and a few of our other folk here are practitioners (and I'm sure will jump all over me if I've gotten any of this story wrong... )


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## MBuzzy (Jun 21, 2008)

Wow, that's a BIG question.

First off, you're looking for Soo Bahk Do, Moo Duk Kwan as the generally accepted spelling.  Formerly known as Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan.  The art was founded in 1945 by Grand Master Hwang Kee.  It had gone through a few name changes before that (Hwa Soo Do, Kong Soo Do), but ended up on Moo Duk Kwan.  The Tang Soo Do part is really just a generic name, it is the characters Karate translated into Korean.  Following the Japanese Occupation, Moo Duk Kwan was one of the 5 major kwan that re-emerged.  

When General Choi unified the Kwans, Moo Duk Kwan was one of the them that did not join and chose to stay a separate art.  Hwang Kee considered TSD to be more traditional and did not want to move into the sport aspect of thing.  Of course his reasons were much more deep than that, and no one knows the whole story, but he stayed separate.  Over the years, the US Soo Bahk Do Federation has gone back and forth between the name SBD and TSD a few times.  They have settled on SBD now due to the fracturing of the style.

Basically, when Hwang Kee died, his son took over, Kwan Jang Nim H.C. Hwang.  Many of the older ranking Koreans split off from the Federation at that time, many before then as well.  When they left, they took the name Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do remained the "mother style," which is governed by the US SBD Federation.  Today there are countless TSD organizations, but only one SBD organization.  The World organization is known as the World Moo Duk Kwan and it excompasses all Soo Bahk Do outside the states.  Basically, Moo Duk Kwan is the art, Soo Bahk Do is the style.

As for the style itself and what it is.  Like most TMAs, it is composed of Hyung, Hosinsul, Illsoosik, kibon dongja, and daeryun.  Many of the hyung were imported from Japanese and Chinese styles, but take on their own TSD/SBD flavor.  The Hosinsul differs between TSD organizations, but within the US SBD Fed, it is completely standardized, so there is one set for the US.  Same with illsoosik, one set for everyone.  Basic movements (kibon dongja) look very Japanes in nature, but there are some distinctively chinese influences due to Hwang Kee's training in China.  The sparring has many kicks, but probably more hand useage than Taekwondo.  There are definately high kicks, but I don't think that there are as many "flashy" kicks as TKD - or at least not as many are used in sparring.  

This is a VERY basic history and overview.  If you want to know more, the website is http://www.soobahkdo.com/fed-web/main-page.htm  You can also look in the Tang Soo Do forum on Martial Talk.  Though Soo Bahk Do and Tang Soo Do are no longer the same style, they are still basically the same, so the things you find in there probably apply.  When you say Soo Bahk Do, though, you are generally referring to the one organization.


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## terryl965 (Jun 21, 2008)

Graet post MBuzzy


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## Dave Leverich (Jun 21, 2008)

I know at one point it went by both names as well, three of my lineage have certificates from late 60's/early 70's that read 'Tang Su Do - Mu Duk Kwan - Taekwondo'.
Talking with SM Rankins, his first degree was in 'Su Bak Do' but subsequent were  listed as the above, then my line went TKD.
There was definitely a period(s) of flux.


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## MBuzzy (Jun 21, 2008)

Dave Leverich said:


> I know at one point it went by both names as well, three of my lineage have certificates from late 60's/early 70's that read 'Tang Su Do - Mu Duk Kwan - Taekwondo'.
> Talking with SM Rankins, his first degree was in 'Su Bak Do' but subsequent were listed as the above, then my line went TKD.
> There was definitely a period(s) of flux.


 
The Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon do is a different lineage all together.  When the kwans united, the Moo Duk Kwan split into TSD and TKD.  But as Hwang Kee was the original founder of the Moo Duk Kwan, generally when you hear the term, people are referring to TSD, although in the TKD circles, it is usually TDK MDK.

That is true, there is a great deal of overlap.  Before so many of the older masters left the Federation, TSD and SBD were used almost synonymously....in fact, Hwang Kee's textbook is entitled "Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do)."  There are still referenced to TSD within the SBD organization.


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