# Duped by deceiful business practice - advice needed



## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

Back in January my wife and I signed up for a groupon for 16 lessons at a Wing Tsun school here in town. After our two introductory classes, the instructor offered to waive a $800 down payment ($400 for each) if we relinquish our groupon and sign up on the spot. So I signed a 12-month contract. I justified the $187/month tuition on the fact that there were 5 classes offered during the week (3 more added with the intermediate class), he offered to let us both study for the price of one, and I figured that our tuition for the duration of training would remain constant. 

At the time of signing the contract, there was no mention of various "upgrade" programs. After the 30-day money back guarantee expired, I found out from another student that we actually have to pay an increased tuition cost to join the intermediate group (aka "black belt club") to learn the advanced material. As I already had a year of previous Wing Tsun training under my belt, I fast-tracked through the first 2 student grades and was ready to join the intermediate group. 

Because I had done some intro lessons and promoting for the school (I had to do this to make up for my wife's "free tuition" ...), the instructor let me join the intermediate class without increasing my tuition (I would have to continue doing intro lessons and assist during the beginner classes). However, that night he failed to mention that a 3-year contract is required to join the class. So the following day he drops the contract bomb on me, and I told him I needed to think about it. After much pressuring, I signed the contract a few days ago, but after giving it some thought I decided to back out of the contract yesterday (I was within the 72-hour period). 

At that time, he tells me that I can no longer be in the intermediate class because I won't sign a 3-year contract showing my commitment like the rest of the students in that group. I then ask him how am I going to advance after my SG3 test next week. To which he replies: "Well, the beginner program is only designed for student grades 1-3. I guess you could sign up for some private lessons to learn the additional material." Oh now the truth comes out ...

I feel deceived by this teacher because he failed to disclose that I would be forced to sign a 3-year contract after 4 months into my 12-month contract. I'm not going to stop going and give up $187 for the next 7 months (my wife quit after she found out about the "black belt club"), and I'm not going to sign the 3-year contract to join the intermediate group. Now I'm a scorned student back in the beginner group with no hope of learning the material necessary to progress, and I don't know what to do. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you. 

PS - to add to my frustration, the beginner class is being taught by a SG3


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## Vajramusti (Apr 24, 2015)

Caveat emptor. Not surprised.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

What exactly did you sign?  I'd take some time to very carefully read everything you put your name on.  You've already paid about... what?  $800?  And you're on the hook through December.  Right?

At this point you have a couple of choices.  You can just bite the bullet, pay him through December to fulfill the contract.  Or you can fight this, which will involve smal claims court and potentially a consultation with a lawyer.  Frankly, if it's a little bit of money and a lot about the principle of the matter, I'd spend a few hundred bucks to talk to a lawyer, have him/her review any documents you signed and give you a recommendation.  If you have a claim, I'd take this joker to small claims court and see if you can get your dough back, or at least get you out of the remainder of teh contract.

And then in the future, be a little more careful. 
Disclaimer, the above is my own opinion based upon my incomplete understanding of your situation, and is only my own description of what I would do in a similar situation.  I am not a lawyer.


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## Argus (Apr 24, 2015)

Is there any way you can get out of all contracts with a minimal loss, and go find a better school?

In Martial Arts schools, any time there are contracts involved, I see that as a big red flag. I can't help but feel that anyone who is worth studying under isn't going to feel the need to forcibly retain students by means of a contract...


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## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

Steve said:


> What exactly did you sign?  I'd take some time to very carefully read everything you put your name on.  You've already paid about... what?  $800?  And you're on the hook through December.  Right?
> 
> At this point you have a couple of choices.  You can just bite the bullet, pay him through December to fulfill the contract.  Or you can fight this, which will involve smal claims court and potentially a consultation with a lawyer.  Frankly, if it's a little bit of money and a lot about the principle of the matter, I'd spend a few hundred bucks to talk to a lawyer, have him/her review any documents you signed and give you a recommendation.  If you have a claim, I'd take this joker to small claims court and see if you can get your dough back, or at least get you out of the remainder of teh contract.
> 
> ...



I signed a 12-month contract that began in Feb '15 and lasts until Feb '16. I've paid about $560 so far. I actually read the contract in its entirety - it's a standard martial arts contract. However, neither the contract nor he mentioned anything about the beginner program lasting until SG3. This is definitely a lesson learned, and I may just bite the bullet and keep going to class. I really don't want to go the lawyer route. Thank you for your advice.


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## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

Argus said:


> Is there any way you can get out of all contracts with a minimal loss, and go find a better school?
> 
> In Martial Arts schools, any time there are contracts involved, I see that as a big red flag. I can't help but feel that anyone who is worth studying under isn't going to feel the need to forcibly retain students by means of a contract...



Fortunately, I'm just locked into the 12-month contract. I got out of the 3-year contract. I also agree that contracts are a red-flag. I chose not to sign the 3-year contract because I had the same train of thought: forcing someone into a 3-year contract definitely means something is not right. Also, while justifying the contract he told me that the contract is necessary to "lock in" my tuition rate because he is going to raise the prices as he gets more students to bring more revenue into the school.

edit: grammar/spelling


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## Argus (Apr 24, 2015)

psyon82 said:


> Fortunately, I'm just locked into the 12-month contract. I got out of the 3-year contract. I also agree that contracts are a red-flag. I chose not to sign the 3-year contract because I had the same train of thought: forcing someone into a 3-year contract definitely means something is not right. Also, while justifying the contract he told me that the contract is necessary to "lock in" my tuition rate because he is going to raise the prices as he gets more students to bring more revenue into the school.
> 
> edit: grammar/spelling



I would do as Steve suggests and read the fine print, and perhaps talk to a lawyer and see if you have any options that wouldn't cost more than it's worth to pursue.

You may also be able to break off the contract by paying a cancellation fee. If that's an option, you could get out of your obligations and find somewhere better to train. 

I personally wouldn't want to stick around that school for another 7 months.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

Did the 12 month contract you signed mention beginner, student grade 3 or any mention of limitations on the training you are able to attend?  Is there a schedule?

Frankly, if you can't get out of the contract you signed, I'd pressure him to fulfill the contract you did sign and are paying for.  You didn't sign a contract for beginner classes.  did you?  If your'e interested in training, I'd try to work it out, but it might be worth your while to be clear and assertive.  He's taking advantage of you, but if you signed a contract for training and not specifically for beginner classes, you have a legitimate beef that he's failing to hold up his end of the agreement.

Another avenue to pursue is your State's attorney general and the BBB.  If you are not getting what you paid for, there are sometimes legal protections.  And even in cases where you are not technically protected, a well written letter to him that is factual, not emotional, and clearly articulates what you want, with a cc to the BBB and to your Texas Attorney General, or whoever in your state heads up consumer protection, will let this joker know that you're serious enough to take action if needed.


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## mograph (Apr 24, 2015)

Steve said:


> Did the 12 month contract you signed mention beginner, student grade 3 or any mention of limitations on the training you are able to attend?  Is there a schedule?


Yes. What, specifically, does your current contract state you will receive for your fees?


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## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

The "contract" I signed and have for record is just a vague membership agreement from a 3rd-party billing company. In my workbook it mentions that the beginner program is 6 months long and students who wish to intensify their training may upgrade out of the beginner course. It seems this is all my fault for not inquiring about this earlier. I don't understand why he would have someone sign a 12-month contract knowing the beginner program is only 6-months long and not mention upgrading. I guess I'm stuck like Chuck.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 24, 2015)

Argus said:


> In Martial Arts schools, any time there are contracts involved, I see that as a big red flag. I can't help but feel that anyone who is worth studying under isn't going to feel the need to forcibly retain students by means of a contract...



I think the lack of any sort of contract should be a bigger red flag...  I'm quite sure that I am legally required to have a contract of some form saying what services I am providing in exchange for what amount of money.  Not having any form of contract shows extremely poor business practices and lack of professionalism.

Personally I do not agree with 36-month contracts, without a exit clause that is too far in the future for most people.  But if a gym offers them and someone chooses to sign them it's their choice to do so.

As for the original post, a contract states your obligations as well as the schools.  Does the contract specify which classes you are allowed to attend?


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## mograph (Apr 24, 2015)

I'd get legal advice if I didn't want to just go to beginner classes for my buck. I-not-a-lawyer think that the workbook isn't a contract. However, since the membership contract specifies no obligation for the owner to actually offer you classes ... that may be a problem. However ... it may be possible for you to show up to the intermediate classes and practice in the corner, listening, or course, if there is nothing in the contract that says you (a member!) can't do that. But that would set up an antagonistic relationship with the teacher/owner, of course. 

I guess you have to establish how far you want to go with this, but as I wrote, I'd get legal advice ... and I'd document all interactions with this group.


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## Drose427 (Apr 24, 2015)

psyon82 said:


> The "contract" I signed and have for record is just a vague membership agreement from a 3rd-party billing company. In my workbook it mentions that the beginner program is 6 months long and students who wish to intensify their training may upgrade out of the beginner course. It seems this is all my fault for not inquiring about this earlier. I don't understand why he would have someone sign a 12-month contract knowing the beginner program is only 6-months long and not mention upgrading. I guess I'm stuck like Chuck.



Some people are scammers and some are okay with beong scammed.

One of pur local BJJ schools is like that. The instrcutor claims to have learned from Relson Gracie, students have to pay for extra "programs and packages" such as compeition, no gi, traditonal, etc. All are extra each month, monthly dues are already 100+.  Hes been outed a couple times as we have 2 reputable schools in my area, one of which is  a relson gracie academy, and students still go to the scammer And recommend him.

People just chalk it up to rival schools fighfing for students instead of preventing shoddy business practices.

Point is, if some folks can trick you into paying more, they will.


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## Tez3 (Apr 24, 2015)

Drose427 said:


> Point is, if some folks can trick you into paying more, they will.



There's also that thing that some people have that if you pay more money it must be better, which isn't  necessarily true. You can say that you get what you pay for but you do have to check out the quality of the 'competition' as it were because often it's just an inflated price.


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## geezer (Apr 24, 2015)

psyon82 said:


> PS - to add to my frustration, the beginner class is being taught by a SG3


 
Nobody under SG-8 (in your organization) has any business teaching a class. And even then they should be functioning as an "assistant" and supervized by a senior instructor.

Honestly, you are lucky that you are in San Antonio. You have other groups you can turn to in the same lineage of Wing Chun/Wing Tsun. If you can't get a refund, finish out your time and polish your basics, but don't pay another cent! Then dump that school and find a more ethical instructor. PM me. I was one of the first "WT" instructors in this country and a direct disciple of the head of that organization. I know some great people teaching in Texas.


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## Stac3y (Apr 24, 2015)

I live in Austin, and I'm very curious as to what school this is...


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## jks9199 (Apr 24, 2015)

Unfortunately, you've tripped over one of the headaches and blackeyes of the martial arts (and fitness, for that matter) industry...

To keep the doors open, the business needs a steady influx of money.  It can get it one of two ways: get more people into the door, or soak the ones you've got for more.  (Actually, you can combine them... and then there's the whole fun thing of paying for the "privilege" of learning to teach by teaching classes that other people are paying for...)  That's where the whole black belt club, upgraded membership, etc. comes in...

You can talk to a lawyer about it; I'm not sure what result you'll get.  You can try small claims court, which generally prohibits attorneys.  I'd suggest consulting an attorney before you go to court, since you don't want to waste your time and filing fees, etc. if the contract is "good enough" to get through class.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

jks9199 said:


> You can talk to a lawyer about it; I'm not sure what result you'll get.  You can try small claims court, which generally prohibits attorneys.  I'd suggest consulting an attorney before you go to court, since you don't want to waste your time and filing fees, etc. if the contract is "good enough" to get through class.


This is exactly what I was suggesting.  It sounds like you could be out another several hundred dollars or more.  It might cost you $50 or $100 to consult with an attorney.  That's money well spent if you can get some solid legal advice, even if that advice is to suck it up and consider the money a relatively inexpensive (in the grand scheme) life lesson. 

Another thing attorneys do really well is write letters that get attention.  Even if you have an attorney draft a letter for you, it suggests that you are serious about this and not willing to get taken for a ride.


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## jezr74 (Apr 24, 2015)

Don't forget to write a review of the school in Google reviews and yelp.  Help out the next person looking for schools in your area.


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## K-man (Apr 24, 2015)

A lot of these people use social media to promote themselves. I would be looking to see if you could start detailing your experiences, in a 'nice way' of course, in such a way that they start to feel uncomfortable.

Some schools have reviews. Suggesting that your will post your experience might give them a wake up call.

I think you have to let them know that you are unhappy and that you are not being offered the training you signed up for. Personally I think the legal route, although obviously the most effective, will be costly and likely end in tears. Unfortunately we have a legal system, not a justice system.


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## Argus (Apr 24, 2015)

Andrew Green said:


> I think the lack of any sort of contract should be a bigger red flag...  I'm quite sure that I am legally required to have a contract of some form saying what services I am providing in exchange for what amount of money.  Not having any form of contract shows extremely poor business practices and lack of professionalism.
> 
> Personally I do not agree with 36-month contracts, without a exit clause that is too far in the future for most people.  But if a gym offers them and someone chooses to sign them it's their choice to do so.
> 
> As for the original post, a contract states your obligations as well as the schools.  Does the contract specify which classes you are allowed to attend?



One of my best teachers hardly charges anything for the private lessons I take. I show up, train with him in his back yard, and pay out of pocket 

I've trained a number of other places, and never had to sign contracts -- but then, I mostly do private lessons given the distances involved. I do train at an Aikido school locally, but their format is pretty informal and more club-esque.

So, now that I think about it, I guess my experience is a bit biased!


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

K-man said:


> A lot of these people use social media to promote themselves. I would be looking to see if you could start detailing your experiences, in a 'nice way' of course, in such a way that they start to feel uncomfortable.
> 
> Some schools have reviews. Suggesting that your will post your experience might give them a wake up call.
> 
> I think you have to let them know that you are unhappy and that you are not being offered the training you signed up for. Personally I think the legal route, although obviously the most effective, will be costly and likely end in tears. Unfortunately we have a legal system, not a justice system.


This may be an Australian thing.  Here in the USA, it's very possible he doesn't have a leg to stand on, but it costs very little to find out, time or money.  People are often intimidated by lawyers and think it costs an arm and a leg.  It CAN (don't get me wrong).  But for something like this, there are a lot of low cost options.  Your impressions above are very common, and it's a shame, because it keeps people from advocating for themselves and lets shifty people get away with it.

As has been said, without knowing the details of what was signed, it's impossible to know how strong a case the OP has.  But it's clear that he entered into this agreement having been intentionally misled.  He's going to be out almost $200 per month in a contract he's very unhappy with.  Based on what he's said so far, I really think it's worth at least talking to a pro... getting some advice from someone other than a bunch of random, armchair lawyers on a martial arts website.

To the OP, there are a lot of ways to find a lawyer.  Another option is to look into a low cost legal plan, like legalzoom.com.  They are generally pretty inexpensive and include a consultation.  Some also include letter writing, document reviews and other services, and offer discounts if you need legal assistance above and beyond what is covered in the plan.

Look, it's like this.  If you were here asking about an injury, we would all be encouraging you to see a qualified medical professional.  Why, I wonder, wouldn't you do the same in this situation?  Go see a qualified legal professional.  It's really not THAT expensive and may save you a bunch of dough in the long run, if it's worth it to you.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 24, 2015)

Argus said:


> One of my best teachers hardly charges anything for the private lessons I take. I show up, train with him in his back yard, and pay out of pocket
> 
> I've trained a number of other places, and never had to sign contracts -- but then, I mostly do private lessons given the distances involved. I do train at an Aikido school locally, but their format is pretty informal and more club-esque.
> 
> So, now that I think about it, I guess my experience is a bit biased!



A little, informal backyard training is very different then running a business with a lease and payroll.  And private lessons are a little different then a membership for a period of time (even if it's just a month).


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## K-man (Apr 24, 2015)

Steve said:


> This may be an Australian thing.  Here in the USA, it's very possible he doesn't have a leg to stand on, but it costs very little to find out, time or money.  People are often intimidated by lawyers and think it costs an arm and a leg.  It CAN (don't get me wrong).  But for something like this, there are a lot of low cost options.  Your impressions above are very common, and it's a shame, because it keeps people from advocating for themselves and lets shifty people get away with it.
> 
> As has been said, without knowing the details of what was signed, it's impossible to know how strong a case the OP has.  But it's clear that he entered into this agreement having been intentionally misled.  He's going to be out almost $200 per month in a contract he's very unhappy with.  Based on what he's said so far, I really think it's worth at least talking to a pro... getting some advice from someone other than a bunch of random, armchair lawyers on a martial arts website.
> 
> ...


You may be right. In most countries the legal system is a means of transferring money. That is where the money goes from your account to theirs.

However, as usual you didn't actually read my post. I actually said that the legal option was *"obviously the most effective"*. What I was offering was a free option to try before expending money that may well be good money after bad.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

K-man said:


> You may be right. In most countries the legal system is a means of transferring money. That is where the money goes from your account to theirs.
> 
> However, as usual you didn't actually read my post. I actually said that the legal option was *"obviously the most effective"*. What I was offering was a free option to try before expending money that may well be good money after bad.


Why are you so rude?  is there another way to interpret "likely end in tears" than as a negative and discouraging comment?   Or are you going to suggest that your remark about transferring money in no way suggests a negative bias?

And why would you want to discourage someone from asking a professional for assistance when it is easily available and likely to be very affordable?   I don't get it, and frankly, your obvious negative bias against pretty much any legal system undermines your credibility on this subject.  As you say, in most countries, it's just a way for "your" money to go into "theirs."

Hey.  I have an idea.  Why don't you take your own advice and actually read my post.  Instead of nitpicking, try actually thinking about what I'm trying to say.  just a thought.


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## Argus (Apr 24, 2015)

Andrew Green said:


> A little, informal backyard training is very different then running a business with a lease and payroll.  And private lessons are a little different then a membership for a period of time (even if it's just a month).



Mhm! That's what I was getting at.

I tend to say things that open holes in my own perceptions / arguments, out loud, contradict myself, and then change my tune in pursuit of a more objective impression of reality.

But, sometimes people don't pick up on that and think that I'm still trying to argue a point with flawed logic


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## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

Wow, thank you all for your input! K-man and Steve, please don't get into an argument on my account. I actually agree with both of you! K-man is right by saying I could likely get out of the contract and suffer less mental anguish by threatening to voice an honest account of my experience on a review website before I even need to lace up the gloves and go the legal route. And Steve is right by saying the legal route is cheaper and easier than I may have originally thought (truthfully, it intimidates me). After thinking about it throughout the day, I'm going to talk to my Sifu and find out what my options are to get out of this contract.


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## TSDLifer (Apr 24, 2015)

I'm very familiar with martial arts contracts and what goes on in behind the scenes.  Why?  Because I started one 7 years ago after seeing my family's martial arts business get overcharged for "billing services".  After running a billing company, I realized that schools should do their own billing because it's easy if you have the right tools.  So, I eventually got out (or "pivoted") of full service billing into self-service software. 

You can get out of your contract very easily if you want to.  PM if you want to talk about this in depth.  I'm in Austin, so you can call me if you'd like. 

FYI, if the owner doesn't let you out of the contract, as some of the posts have mentioned, social media is your friend.  I agree with K-man in that you should let him know how you feel. If he sees value in you as a customer and Student, he will work with you and accommodate.


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## TSDLifer (Apr 24, 2015)

TSDLifer said:


> FYI, if the owner doesn't let you out of the contract, as some of the posts have mentioned, social media is your friend.  I agree with K-man in that you should let him know how you feel. If he sees value in you as a customer and Student, he will work with you and accommodate.



Btw, I believe schools should use contracts.  What they should do in conjunction, however, is offer a fair Early Cancellation Fee should they become disinterested, have financial difficulty or other reasons other than "moving x # of miles away" or "have a medical reason".


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

psyon82 said:


> Wow, thank you all for your input! K-man and Steve, please don't get into an argument on my account. I actually agree with both of you!


its okay.  Kman has such a high opinion of himself that whenever someone disagrees with him, he thinks it's because they must not have read his post carefully enough.  

As for the advice regarding social media, please make sure you are factual, and don't post anything emotional or exaggerated at all.   Just do a little research.   You are the one who has the moral and ethical high ground right now.  yiu could very quickly find yourself in the wrong side of a defamation suit because you decided to out some pressure in this guy using Twitter, yelp, Facebook or whatever else.


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## psyon82 (Apr 24, 2015)

Steve said:


> its okay.  Kman has such a high opinion of himself that whenever someone disagrees with him, he thinks it's because they must not have read his post carefully enough.
> 
> As for the advice regarding social media, please make sure you are factual, and don't post anything emotional or exaggerated at all.   Just do a little research.   You are the one who has the moral and ethical high ground right now.  yiu could very quickly find yourself in the wrong side of a defamation suit because you decided to out some pressure in this guy using Twitter, yelp, Facebook or whatever else.



Thanks for that nugget of wisdom. I've actually been keeping that in mind, and even as I post on here, I try to stick to the facts and my reactions to what was/wasn't said. Some of my edits have redacted emotional outbursts that upon re-reading would not be wise to include .


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## K-man (Apr 24, 2015)

If you stick to the truth and state facts you will not be held liable for defamation. Defamation is the act of harming reputation through untrue or malicious statements. You are even protected by your 1st Amendment.

_Libel is a tort governed by State law.  State courts generally follow the common law of libel, which allows recovery of damages without proof of actual harm.  Under the traditional rules of libel, injury is presumed from the fact of publication.  However, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that freedom of expression secured by the First Amendment limits a State's power to award damages in actions for libel.

In New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, the Court held that proof of actual malice is required for an award of damages in an action for libel involving public figures or matters of public concern.  See New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964).  The Court reasoned that speech related to matters of public concern is at the heart of the protections guaranteed by the First Amendment, and outweighs the State's interest in compensating individuals for damage to their reputations.

In Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., the Court refused to extend the New York Times standard to actions for libel involving private individuals even where the matter is of public concern.  See Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323 (1974).  In Gertz, the Court recognized a strong and legitimate state interest in compensating private individuals for injury to reputation, but cautioned that this interest extends no further than comensation for actual injury.  The Gertz Court held that in a case involving a matter of public concern, recovery of presumed or punitive damages is not permitted without a showing of malice; that is, unless liability is based on a showing of knowledge of falsity or reckless disregard for the truth.
Libel Wex Legal Dictionary Encyclopedia LII Legal Information Institute
_
But make sure you check out what *TSDLifer* is suggesting.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

I sure wish I'd said that.  Wait a minute....    lol.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2015)

TSDLifer said:


> Btw, I believe schools should use contracts.  What they should do in conjunction, however, is offer a fair Early Cancellation Fee should they become disinterested, have financial difficulty or other reasons other than "moving x # of miles away" or "have a medical reason".


Should or shouldn't is really a matter of opinion.  I personally see nothing wrong with contracts, provided the are clear, in plain language and aren't misleading.  But there are a lot of schools doing just fine without them, too.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 24, 2015)

Steve said:


> Should or shouldn't is really a matter of opinion.  I personally see nothing wrong with contracts, provided the are clear, in plain language and aren't misleading.  But there are a lot of schools doing just fine without them, too.




A contract says what each party is responsible for. How much money for how long and for what services. Both parties should require one, just like with any other service. Unless you are running drop in fees only, you need a contract and so does the business. 

There are schools that do well without long term contracts, or even work solely off ongoing memberships, but no successful school can operate without some form of contract.


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## TSDLifer (Apr 25, 2015)

I just have a strong opinion in that a school using a billing company's contract like the OP's is never in plain language and there's too much fine print. In addition, I'm a believer there should be an early termination fee in the contract. Why make enemies with students? Having dealt with almost every cancellation request/complaint/scenario imaginable in the years I did billing for over 300 schools, holding a student to a substantial contract balance will only do the school harm and cause unnecessary headache and problems for everyone.  My 2 cents.


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## Andrew Green (Apr 25, 2015)

TSDLifer said:


> holding a student to a substantial contract balance will only do the school harm and cause unnecessary headache and problems for everyone.  My 2 cents.


 
I have no problem with choosing to use a billing company. Instructors should be good at teaching, and not wanting to mix that relationship with dealing with delinquent accounts is something I can understand. 

But this point you are definately on the mark for. The Internet has changed things, and if a business conducts unethical behaviour it will hurt them more then the value of the contract. 

Now I also have no problem with a school that chooses to enforce a contract, providing it was entered into with a clear understanding on both sides. The truth is a term contract is needed for the business to run smoothly, and month to month memberships should cost more. If there is a cancellation fee great, if not and a person signs knowing that then they made that choice. Of course trying to enforce a contract in a world of online reviews can be dangerous...


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## psyon82 (Apr 25, 2015)

I don't mind the contract at all. What bothers me is the "agreement" I have is very vague, and I was not informed that I would be required to upgrade should I go beyond SG3 within my 12-month contract. I refuse to sign a 3-year contract - especially one void of an early termination fee - and it upsets me that I *have* to sign one in order to further my martial arts study.

I may have mentioned it earlier, but I have a year of previous WT training, so I surpassed the scope of the beginner class after the 3rd week of training. Having a black belt in Kajukenbo, I understand the importance of a solid foundation in the basics, so I'm not trying to say I'm "too good" for the basic class. However the intermediate class seemed to be at my appropriate level, for it was challenging, fun, engaging, and - most importantly - I left class feeling like I learned something. I was heartbroken when he told me I couldn't join because I wouldn't commit like the others.


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## Steve (Apr 25, 2015)

Andrew Green said:


> A contract says what each party is responsible for. How much money for how long and for what services. Both parties should require one, just like with any other service. Unless you are running drop in fees only, you need a contract and so does the business.
> 
> There are schools that do well without long term contracts, or even work solely off ongoing memberships, but no successful school can operate without some form of contract.


Good point.   I had in mind long term contracts.   


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