# How to minimize cane flying off the hand when misses the target?



## Alan0354 (Aug 3, 2021)

Hi

I am practicing stick fight with a cane for self defense, when I hit the heavy bag, when I miss the bag, the cane flew off from my hands even I am using 2 hands like Katana. What do people do to avoid this?

In fighting, opponent do back off and cause you to miss, I cannot afford to have the cane flies off. Short of tying a string to my wrist, what can I practice to hold onto the cane better?

Thanks


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## Blindside (Aug 3, 2021)

Sounds like you are overly relaxed in your grip, but it can happen to anyone, I have done it and I watched a really good HEMA guy throw away a single stick on a missed swing last weekend.  It is proper to relax your grip when not expecting contact, it will speed up your strikes and power.  This is one thing where sparring can help because you get used to taking impact at unexpected times rather than just when hitting a pell.  I know that isn't your goal or part of your training regime, but it is an introduction of the chaos of a fight.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 3, 2021)

Thanks for the reply, I am starting to practice gripping tighter the moment of contact, but still it doesn't seems to help. I am practicing to barely reaching the bag to increase the chance of missing the bag to try to get use to the misses.

What do you think about pulling back after hitting instead follow through to swing the whole arc? In punching, we don't go through all the way, we pull the punch back after penetrating the bag enough( like converging  3" into the bag). I tried this, I won't be able to hit as hard.

This got to be a common problem even in sword fight and other weapons like axe etc. Don't tell me in real life, people lose their weapon all the time!!!

Thanks


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## Blindside (Aug 3, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Thanks for the reply, I am starting to practice gripping tighter the moment of contact, but still it doesn't seems to help. I am practicing to barely reaching the bag to increase the chance of missing the bag to try to get use to the misses.
> 
> What do you think about pulling back after hitting instead follow through to swing the whole arc? In punching, we don't go through all the way, we pull the punch back after penetrating the bag enough( like converging  3" into the bag). I tried this, I won't be able to hit as hard.
> 
> ...


They don't, just don't get overly relaxed in the grip.  But I will say that it isn't unusual for me to disarm people by striking someone at the base of their sword/stick at an unexpected time or if their hand is at a bad angle.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 3, 2021)

Blindside said:


> They don't, just don't get overly relaxed in the grip.  But I will say that it isn't unusual for me to disarm people by striking someone at the base of their sword/stick at an unexpected time or if their hand is at a bad angle.


I just bought some 1/8" black rope, going to put a loop to loop my hand through.

It is a dilemma, I think it will help to have a lighter stick so momentum won't pull the stick out of the hand, but then you reduce the stopping power. I don't think I have weak hands, I do hand exercise. I am 180lbs, I can do pull up no problem. In the gym, I did pull down up to 220lbs and I don't need any help on gripping with bare hands. So I don't think I have a weak grip.

One more question. My cane is on the heavy side. Just the cane alone is *19oz*. The one I am using for hitting the kicking bag has a big ball like cushion at the tip that must weight *3oz *or little over. So the momentum from swinging is higher. Would that take it over the edge and pull the cane out of my hands? This is the picture of the canes, #1 is with the cushion:





The one with the yellow cushion is definitely hard to swing in air and I can feel it's pulling me. The others don't have this problem.


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## Blindside (Aug 3, 2021)

Professional baseball players throw their bats away completely accidentally and that is a less chaotic situation than any fight. 




Pro tennis players lose their rackets. 




All of these guys are stronger than you and they are using tools both lighter and heavier than yours.  I am not going to say don't worry about it, but it happens.  For a more personal example, here is video of me both knocking a stick out of someone's hands (4:05), knocking a knife out (7:38), and me kind of randomly losing my own stick just by trying to hit the other guy (6:17).  Stuff happens.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 3, 2021)

I wish I can fight like you!!! Ha ha, I hope I can be 30 years younger also!!!

I ordered the 1/8" black rope and going to try making a loop around my wrist. At least I can get it back quickly. 

You were quick getting back the stick after you lost it!!! 


Another important thing, your matches are fought in big open space, there's nothing in the way and nothing that you might hit accidentally. For me, it's self defense, it might be in a restaurant with tables and chairs. I practice single hand strike also with a 13oz cane, I lost the cane twice from hitting the chair accidentally. That, my hand was relax because I did not expect to hit anything. The cane went flying!!!


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## CB Jones (Aug 3, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am practicing stick fight with a cane for self defense, when I hit the heavy bag, when I miss the bag, the cane flew off from my hands even I am using 2 hands like Katana. What do people do to avoid this?
> 
> ...



Lizard Skin bat grip tape maybe?


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## Blindside (Aug 3, 2021)

The SCA require a lanyard for their single hand weapons, you might try something like this:


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## Tony Dismukes (Aug 5, 2021)

Dropping a stick while sparring is something that can happen, due to the chaotic nature of a fight. You really shouldn’t be dropping your stick during solo practice hitting the heavy bag or air. With time and repetition  you should learn the subtle adjustments to your grip which are necessary to avoid this happening. (Essentially, your grip will tighten up at the moment of impact or at the moment of maximum velocity if you aren’t making contact, then relax just enough to move the stick freely at other times.)

In your other thread I recommended that you use a sword grip (hands somewhat apart) rather than a baseball grip (hands together) for your two handed swings. That should make it significantly easier to maintain control of the stick and not let go of it.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 5, 2021)

Tony Dismukes said:


> Dropping a stick while sparring is something that can happen, due to the chaotic nature of a fight. You really shouldn’t be dropping your stick during solo practice hitting the heavy bag or air. With time and repetition  you should learn the subtle adjustments to your grip which are necessary to avoid this happening. (Essentially, your grip will tighten up at the moment of impact or at the moment of maximum velocity if you aren’t making contact, then relax just enough to move the stick freely at other times.)
> 
> In your other thread I recommended that you use a sword grip (hands somewhat apart) rather than a baseball grip (hands together) for your two handed swings. That should make it significantly easier to maintain control of the stick and not let go of it.


Thanks for the reply.

I never drop the stick hitting air or hitting bag, I dropped the stick when I missed the bag and when I accidentally hit the furniture when swinging in the air where I hit unexpectedly. Yes, I tighten the grip at the peak of the swing anticipating to hit something. I drop the stick hitting the furniture because I wasn't expect to hit anything at that moment.

In competition, you have a wide clear unobstructed area, it's not really a problem hitting things around, and beside, the worst it can happen when dropping the stick is losing the match. In self defense, like in restaurant, you have chairs and tables all over, it is likely to hit something accidentally. Dropping a stick in self defense has a much higher consequence. That's what is scary for me.

I am practicing hitting the bag with the very tip at the maximum of reach, so I barely touch the bag in the swing. 30% of the time, I miss. I am trying to get use to missing the target and hold onto the stick. Hopefully I can train to take a miss and not losing the stick. I don't know how to create a situation I can accidentally hit the furniture without destroying the furniture!!!

I ordered some black rope and see whether I can make a loop around my left hand so even if the cane flies, it won't fly away and I can get it back fast.

Yes, I swing with my two hands like an inch or so apart, not together anymore to get better control now, still the cane can fly as described above.

Thanks


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## wab25 (Aug 6, 2021)

When practicing shooting a handgun, one of the things you can do is to have a friend load a dummy round into the magazine, at an unknown position. Then when you shoot the rounds, when you shoot the dummy, you get to see what you are doing in expectation of the recoil. Some people compensate to early and push the gun off target and can't see it, because of the recoil. An unexpected dummy round, will show you what you are doing in anticipation.

I wonder if you are swinging too hard, expecting to hit the bag. When you missed, you are throwing yourself off balance and out of position. When we do Bo practice, sensei will stand in front of you, sometimes he will block your strike with his Bo, sometimes he won't, he keeps you guessing. The expectation is that when he blocks, it has full power and when he doesn't, you maintain full structure and balance and don't over extend your strike.

Also, I would think about the cord tying the cane to your wrist. If you are talking about a self defense situation, and the other guy suddenly rips the cane out of your hands, he now has you by the wrist. One of the tactics you can use with a hanbo, is to get the other guy focused on the hanbo so much that he really tries to get it, then you let him have it, but attack him with an elbow or knee as he takes the hanbo. When you get into a wrestling match over the hanbo, sometimes its better to suddenly let go, if you can put an elbow to his temple, especially if the release, releases him into the strike. Just think about whether you want to get dragged around by your cane, should the other guy get a hold of it and rips it out of your hands.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 6, 2021)

wab25 said:


> When practicing shooting a handgun, one of the things you can do is to have a friend load a dummy round into the magazine, at an unknown position. Then when you shoot the rounds, when you shoot the dummy, you get to see what you are doing in expectation of the recoil. Some people compensate to early and push the gun off target and can't see it, because of the recoil. An unexpected dummy round, will show you what you are doing in anticipation.
> 
> I wonder if you are swinging too hard, expecting to hit the bag. When you missed, you are throwing yourself off balance and out of position. When we do Bo practice, sensei will stand in front of you, sometimes he will block your strike with his Bo, sometimes he won't, he keeps you guessing. The expectation is that when he blocks, it has full power and when he doesn't, you maintain full structure and balance and don't over extend your strike.
> 
> Also, I would think about the cord tying the cane to your wrist. If you are talking about a self defense situation, and the other guy suddenly rips the cane out of your hands, he now has you by the wrist. One of the tactics you can use with a hanbo, is to get the other guy focused on the hanbo so much that he really tries to get it, then you let him have it, but attack him with an elbow or knee as he takes the hanbo. When you get into a wrestling match over the hanbo, sometimes its better to suddenly let go, if you can put an elbow to his temple, especially if the release, releases him into the strike. Just think about whether you want to get dragged around by your cane, should the other guy get a hold of it and rips it out of your hands.


What is a hanbo?

It is something to think about the guy might drag me around by the cord!!! For now, it might not be a problem, I am still doing weight training and I weight 178lbs. I don't think I am that easy to be drag around yet. But this is a real concern if I am a few more years older and weaker. Right now, I can still do 20 pushup wearing a 60lbs weighted jacket and bicep curl 10 raps of 40lbs dumb bell.





I used to do a lot of shooting, that's a good idea for revolver, too bad it won't work for semi-auto. You have to clear the dummy rounds. It's doable. I do have some dummy 9mm.

Right now, I am practicing hitting the bag by the tip of the cane at maximum reach. I missed the bag like 30% of the time and swing through. It's hard to know which one I will miss, so it's  kind of like you said about the dummy rounds in the gun.

The worst is in self defense situation in say restaurant where there are chairs and tables, you can accidentally hit one of those where you don't expect and lose the cane. You only squeeze the cane when you anticipate to hit, the hand is relax when you accidentally hit the other objects around where you don't expect.

It's no win, choosing between losing the cane or being dragged!!! I used to practice hitting the head, now I am more concentrating on hitting the legs and poking the tummy. It's much harder for the guy to grab the cane when I hit low. Also, because I use two hands, I use a 20oz heavy cane, I don't necessary want to kill the guy by hitting his head. Breaking the leg is effective also.( I think the cane being 20oz has something to do with it flying off my hands due to momentum. Particularly the one I use to hit the heavy has a big bulb at the tip, another over 3ozs of foam and tape that drag the cane out of my hand if I miss.)


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## Alan0354 (Aug 7, 2021)

Anyone actually pull back the stick after hitting the target? that means NOT swinging through the whole circle, just stop after swinging a little pass the hitting point of the target and pull back.    All the instruction videos I saw all swing through the whole circle.

Reason I ask is because for punching, you do NOT punch and keep going pass the target point. You go like 3in beyond the target point and you pull back the punch to avoid throwing yourself out of balance. Why can't we do that on a stick/cane? With two hands swinging, it's not hard to stop the cane and not follow through the whole cycle.

This should help a lot not to have the cane flies!!


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## Alan0354 (Aug 7, 2021)

I tried a little both on kicking bag and air, I don't even have to pull back, just don't try to swing through the whole cycle. Like when I anticipate the point of hitting, swing hard to that point and then relax right after that, the stick is not going to be swings through as hard. Meaning if I miss, there will be less momentum carry the stick through the circle that can pull the stick out of the hands.

Anyone can comment on this. ALL the videos I saw talked about swinging through the whole circle to reach the shoulder on the other side.


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## Blindside (Aug 7, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Anyone can comment on this. ALL the videos I saw talked about swinging through the whole circle to reach the shoulder on the other side.


We would call that a "broken strike" meaning you hit and retract back to a high position.  It will cost you power but is less dedicated.  Try "casting" a little bit more when you strike if you want to do this, it will give you a bit of range.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 7, 2021)

Blindside said:


> We would call that a "broken strike" meaning you hit and retract back to a high position.  It will cost you power but is less dedicated.  Try "casting" a little bit more when you strike if you want to do this, it will give you a bit of range.


What is casting?

Thanks


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## isshinryuronin (Aug 7, 2021)

_Striking_ with a cane/stick/hanbo is different than _cutting_ with a (Samurai) sword. _Striking_ contact is usually perpendicular to the target, relying on blunt force penetration to cause damage; heavy broadswords as well, I think.  To put it in blade terms - chopping. _Cutting_ contact is more parallel, like slicing, and requires blade sharpness to do the work. So the two are apples and oranges.



Alan0354 said:


> What do you think about pulling back after hitting instead follow through to swing the whole arc? In punching, we don't go through all the way, we pull the punch back after penetrating the bag enough( like converging 3" into the bag). I tried this, I won't be able to hit as hard.


If you are punching the bag hard and stopping 3" in, you are probably locking your body to stop the punch at that point (_kime/chinkuchi_.)  Why not try the same thing with your cane?  If you're not getting power in the strike, you may be pulling it back after contact but leaving out the locking at the expected penetration point before you pull back.  If you miss the target, instead of a wild follow thru, like the thrown bat mentioned earlier, using _kime_ should allow you to keep control, just as if you hit the target.

The opposite method can be seen in kali/escrima where you relax the wrist/grip after contact, flow thru into a circular motion, redirecting the power (even in a missed strike) into a second strike. This should also let you keep control of the momentum.

Whether you hit or miss, the technique should pretty much look the same.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 8, 2021)

So I was practicing wrong before!!! I watched quite a bit of youtube, nobody talked about Kime/Chinkuchi. That concentrate of a point and relax after that to avoid over commit and throw off balance. Every single video showed following through the strike swinging from right shoulder all the way circling to the left shoulder. So I have been swinging all the way even thought I tighten at the target point more.  It ONLY because I learned from punching and thinking if I stop right after the target, I won't over swing and risk losing the stick if I miss.


What do you guys think about I practice "*tapping*" the heavy bag when I hit the bag? That is like first practice punching, just tap the bag lightly, not trying to punch hard. That helped me in concentrate the punch like 3" into the bag and relax and pull back. Then after a few days, *slowly increase* the power of the "tapping".

Let me know,

Thanks


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## Alan0354 (Aug 8, 2021)

I finally got all the parts I needed from Amazon today to make the rope around my hand. These are the pictures. I think it does NOT attract any attention, looks natural.

1) This is picture just hanging on the edge of table.







2) This is how it looks when I walk around. You barely notice I have the rope.





3) This is when I hold the cane to swing. The rope is NOT around my wrist.





Point is I don't want to draw attention. Also, if the guy grab my cane and tug it, I can always let it go because the rope is NOT around my wrist here.


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## Blindside (Aug 9, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> What is casting?
> 
> Thanks


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## Alan0354 (Aug 10, 2021)

Thanks

I actually experimented this and like this on my own. I was thinking how can I hit without swinging through. I kept experimenting and I found reaching like in the video make it hit harder without the momentum carrying the stick through if missing the target. This help in holding onto the cane.

I was going to post to ask about my finding, but don't know now to even describe it. Your video explains it all.

Thanks for confirming this to me. Now I can confidently practice it. I am still practice hitting lighter. I also read about Chinkuchi suggested by Isshinryuronin about muscle, shoulder, waste concentrating at one point, and I found casting helps to envision that point.

Lots of info for me to practice now.
​


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## Alan0354 (Aug 10, 2021)

Blindside said:


>


I have more questions:

*1)* In your video, it's more for long distance striking. I actually use the same technique for closer distance striking. I started from the left side holding the cane with two hands to poke the mid section. I have my hands like 8" apart and just poke. Then I use casting to hit the head with two hands still *8" apart*. Then repeat poking the mid section. It's like poke, casting strike, poke, casting strike........  Actually this kind of how I discover the casting because without casting, there is no power in the strike with hands 8" apart. It's the casting that increase the power.

It's is to the point that it seems at close distance I can even use casting strike with hands 8" apart to the mid section in close distance, feels even more powerful than poking. Casting feels like a combination of *a jab and a strike* together and they add to each other.

*2)* Do you have any exercise suggestion to practice *Chinkughi* in cane strike?

Thanks



*EDIT:* I have been practicing using casting today with the tip of the stick at max reach to the heavy bag. This make me miss the bag like 30% of the time and swing through. I did not try to swing very hard, but I yet to lose my cane after 15 minutes. That seems to be a big improvement. Before, when I miss the bag, I lose my cane on and off. Worst is one or two times, I lost grip on left hand, but the right hand still holding the cane and it did not fly away.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 10, 2021)

Blindside said:


>


Hi

Are you Lamont Glass in the video? If so, thanks so much for making the video on casting. I notice the video was posted only yesterday. Too bad you are in Wa. I am in the Silicon Valley close to San Jose. It would be so nice to have your school here.

I watched your video again and try to practice casting. I talked about hitting like you described, but today I really followed yours, it's not easy, I am really starting from ground scratch on casting now that I know this is the correct way. Give me some time( it'll be a little while) to practice first. I am doing it slowly.

Thanks


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## Blindside (Aug 11, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> Are you Lamont Glass in the video? If so, thanks so much for making the video on casting. I notice the video was posted only yesterday. Too bad you are in Wa. I am in the Silicon Valley close to San Jose. It would be so nice to have your school here.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is me.
Don't get too hung up on copying exactly what I am doing here.  In the video I occasionally slash through the target instead of snapping every time.  Just don't swing so far that you can't recover from it.  

Good luck with your training, I appreciate your critical exploration of this unusual topic.

Lamont


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## angelariz (Aug 11, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am practicing stick fight with a cane for self defense, when I hit the heavy bag, when I miss the bag, the cane flew off from my hands even I am using 2 hands like Katana. What do people do to avoid this?
> 
> ...


2 things that have helped me...
1 get a weighted 8 pound ball and target practice.
2 only swing as hard as you can accurately control the swing while simultaneously drawing your elbows tight to your body after the swing is accomplished. 
The act of pulling the elbows in cuts the arc in a controlled manner.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 11, 2021)

angelariz said:


> 2 things that have helped me...
> *1 get a weighted 8 pound ball and target practice.*
> 2 only swing as hard as you can accurately control the swing while simultaneously drawing your elbows tight to your body after the swing is accomplished.
> The act of pulling the elbows in cuts the arc in a controlled manner.


What do you mean?


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## Alan0354 (Aug 12, 2021)

Blindside said:


> Yes, that is me.
> Don't get too hung up on copying exactly what I am doing here.  In the video I occasionally slash through the target instead of snapping every time.  Just don't swing so far that you can't recover from it.
> 
> Good luck with your training, I appreciate your critical exploration of this unusual topic.
> ...


Thanks Lamont

I watched a few of your videos, what I like is that you combine stick fight with punching, kicking and grappling. This is really good, it's all around. I so wish I have school like your in my area.

I understand that casting is a concept, that I don't use it 100%. I am not giving up swinging, but it's good to know and practice it so I have options. I understand your concept, I am doing it both on the heavy bag and in air, I want to doing it so I feel comfortable myself but still have the casting concept, that I reach to my hands are straight at the moment of contact.

In fact, this remind me of circle punches you see in UFC when people started like a hook but reach until the arm is straight and use the second knuckles(not the big knuckles, but the second smaller joints of the fingers) to hit the side of the head of the opponent. Or even a little bit of the Tae kwon Do Ridge Hand. I have been practicing circle punches lately, and I started to think about reaching out on top of the swing. I was experimenting this and talked about this, then your video solidify what I want to do.

So far( only two days of practice!!), I cannot generate as much power of a wide swing. BUT, I do get the "whooping" sound with casting practice( not as loud). Hopefully I can get more power as I settle down and practice for a while. Casting definitely lessen the chance of losing the cane if I miss the target. Also, I go to two hands so I can use a 20oz cane instead of a 11oz of so rattan cane, this by itself generates more power even though it's slower. Just like the 45ACP bullets, it has a lot of stopping power even thought it's slow because of the heavy slug. Ha ha, last thing I want if I use a light cane  in self defense situation after I hit the guy, he look at me and say " ouch"!!!

thanks


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## angelariz (Aug 12, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> What do you mean?


Hang the 8 pound ball, head height and work on controlling the swing for accuracy and retention practice.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 12, 2021)

angelariz said:


> Hang the 8 pound ball, head height and work on controlling the swing for accuracy and retention practice.


You mean those soft weighted balls? I can't find any with hooks to hang. Using a net?

Is this similar idea of the speed bag?

My problem is I don't have room, I already have two kicking bags, anything more has to be over the car!!! I do have a speed bag platform that I don't even use because I never find it helping anything. Maybe I can hang a smaller soft weight ball onto the platform instead of the speed bag.

Thanks


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> You mean those soft weighted balls? I can't find any with hooks to hang. Using a net?
> 
> Is this similar idea of the speed bag?
> 
> ...


Yes a weighted ball or a maze bag made from Swiss balls at 5 below.

I used a towel to tie up with a rope and hang it on branches outside and I beams in my garage gym.


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am practicing stick fight with a cane for self defense, when I hit the heavy bag, when I miss the bag, the cane flew off from my hands even I am using 2 hands like Katana. What do people do to avoid this?
> 
> ...


The katana swing is one way to hold the stick but explore different methods. I spent some time training La Canne Vigney and it has some great single stick fighting techniques.


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)




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## Alan0354 (Aug 15, 2021)

angelariz said:


> View attachment 27117


Hi

Thanks for the idea, I have been really experimenting. I have a speed bag setup, the bag is broken and won't pump. I just open it and put 3lbs of weight and tape it back up and try. It really works. It swing so fast in all different ways it's so hard to hit, I miss a lot more than I hit. That really help training to hold onto the stick. Here is the picture:




You can see I taped the top part of the bag to make it smaller.

I ordered and received the 8lbs ball. I am going to put into a netting and hang with a chain to the ceiling of the garage. These are what I ordered:
Amazon.com : Slam Ball Medicine Ball, Ideal for Cross Training, Core Exercises Plyometric and Cardio Workouts : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: VOKOLY Single Ball Mesh Net Bag Carrier Hold for Carrying and Storage Football Basketball Volleyball or Any Balls (SA11C-1) : Sports & Outdoors

Everything will be in today and I am going to hang it up in a day or two. We'll see. Now I will have two stations. I like the 8lbs ball I got, it's only 8" diameter, smaller than any other ones I can find, most are 10" or basket ball size. This one is no bigger than the head. My suspicion is the speed bag one is harder to hit.

Thanks for the idea, this is really good.


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the idea, I have been really experimenting. I have a speed bag setup, the bag is broken and won't pump. I just open it and put 3lbs of weight and tape it back up and try. It really works. It swing so fast in all different ways it's so hard to hit, I miss a lot more than I hit. That really help training to hold onto the stick. Here is the picture:
> View attachment 27118
> ...


I used 8 pounds because the average head weighs about that much.  I dont use the speed bag because it limits the angles I can swing.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 15, 2021)

angelariz said:


> I used 8 pounds because the average head weighs about that much.  I dont use the speed bag because it limits the angles I can swing.


I am waiting for the ceiling loop hook and the net to come in today and put it on. I am excited about the 8lbs ball, I think not only for cane, I can use it for punching also. I bet it is more realistic like the opponent's head moving around. I practiced speed bag for a while, I absolutely do NOT find it useful in any way.

I am going to modify the speed bag again, I am going to wrap the weights with towels and put it back it. Hopefully it will last longer. I can tell you, it's HARD to hit. I would say I hit one out of 4 times today. I might get better later, but it's hard for now.

thanks for your idea.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 15, 2021)

Everything arrived and I hung it up. I tried it, it's too slow, I hit about 10 times and I did not miss one time yet. Maybe 8lbs is too heavy and slow. This is disappointing, still the speed bag is a lot more useful. 

I have to think more about how to do this, I really need one that is fast enough so I miss on and off. Maybe I should hand the ball on the speed bag platform, but I think it's going to too big and it's hard to miss also.

BUT, the idea is very good, just have to implement it correctly.


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Everything arrived and I hung it up. I tried it, it's too slow, I hit about 10 times and I did not miss one time yet. Maybe 8lbs is too heavy and slow. This is disappointing, still the speed bag is a lot more useful.
> 
> I have to think more about how to do this, I really need one that is fast enough so I miss on and off. Maybe I should hand the ball on the speed bag platform, but I think it's going to too big and it's hard to miss also.
> 
> BUT, the idea is very good, just have to implement it correctly.


You should also be moving around as if you are fighting and not just standing and swinging.  I would also add different types of strikes.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 15, 2021)

angelariz said:


> You should also be moving around as if you are fighting and not just standing and swinging.  I would also add different types of strikes.


Ha ha, I have to move the car out to do that. I'll try that the next work out session.

Too bad I don't have any tree big enough in my yard. The shorter the chain, the faster it is going to move. Right now, the chain is 24" long, just too slow. Here is the setup:





Thanks


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## angelariz (Aug 15, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Ha ha, I have to move the car out to do that. I'll try that the next work out session.
> 
> Too bad I don't have any tree big enough in my yard. The shorter the chain, the faster it is going to move. Right now, the chain is 24" long, just too slow. Here is the setup:
> View attachment 27119
> ...


Good stuff!


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## Alan0354 (Aug 23, 2021)

Just want to update, I've been practicing casting and I really like it. The idea is reaching and pull back after point of contact is really good stuff. Not only this reduce the chance of cane flying off when missed, it's a lot more compact, I don't need as much space around to swing. If you look at my setup, bags are close together and it's hard to avoid accidentally hit the other bags if I do full swing. With casting, I don't hit the other bags that often at all. This to me, is more important in self defense where you don't have an open space to swing wild. Less chance of hitting stuffs in the surrounding accidentally, meaning less chance of cane flying off the hand. All these days, I think I only lost my cane once, that was after I was sweating and the cane was very slippery. 

As for practicing on moving target where I can miss, the speed bag is the best. I pretty much gave up the 8lbs ball on the chain for now. It's too slow and I have no problem hitting it even I move around the ball freely. BUT, that is a good idea for punching. I am modifying my setup, I am going to get a 12lbs ball instead. 8lbs is too light for punching. I am modifying to make the chain much shorter to increase the speed of the ball. 

This is the MOST helpful thread since I join the forum. The casting really change my perspective on cane fight. Then the swinging ball gives me all the ideas not only on cane, but on punching.

Let me practice more and I'll make a video and post it.

Thanks


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## Argus (Aug 26, 2021)

Hmm, apparently you are doing something when you hit the bag that you aren't doing when you just hit air. Maybe there is some sort of flinch going on. Or maybe the follow through of your swing is awkward. Are you bending your wrist or opening your grip in some way on the follow up swing?

I'd say to just keep practicing in such a way that you unexpectedly hit or miss the bag, and eventually, you'll figure out what you're doing wrong and correct it.


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 26, 2021)

Alan0354 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am practicing stick fight with a cane for self defense, when I hit the heavy bag, when I miss the bag, the cane flew off from my hands even I am using 2 hands like Katana. What do people do to avoid this?
> 
> ...


 Are you using gloves? 
I have run into the issue, if the glove is large enough to fit then the bar on the thumb prohibits making a tight grip. 
I have sparred this way where if I held it straight up and down it would fall to the floor. 

This is in conjunction with the comments about loose grip.


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## Alan0354 (Aug 26, 2021)

Argus said:


> Hmm, apparently you are doing something when you hit the bag that you aren't doing when you just hit air. Maybe there is some sort of flinch going on. Or maybe the follow through of your swing is awkward. Are you bending your wrist or opening your grip in some way on the follow up swing?
> 
> I'd say to just keep practicing in such a way that you unexpectedly hit or miss the bag, and eventually, you'll figure out what you're doing wrong and correct it.


I think the most likely reason is my hands sweat a lot, after two or three rounds, they are all wet and very slippery. That's when it happened.

The cane I go out with has a safeguard, I have a rope looping around my wrist!!! Also more importantly, I won't be sweating in self defense incident. I'll keep practicing and see what happens.

Thanks


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