# What is Chi in plain language?



## Towel Snapper (Sep 14, 2014)

No one seems to know the answer to this, WTF is Chi? 

It seems to get lost in translation from Chinese to English, or people simply have no idea what it is Chinese or otherwise, or it is a partial myth based on something real but explained in a way that attaches lots of BS believed 100s of years ago when there was no science. 

What the hell is it? 

The most tangible response Ive ever heard is "its relaxation", the type of relaxation that makes your strikes faster and heavier.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> No one seems to know the answer to this, WTF is Chi?
> 
> It seems to get lost in translation from Chinese to English, or people simply have no idea what it is Chinese or otherwise, or it is a partial myth based on something real but explained in a way that attaches lots of BS believed 100s of years ago when there was no science.
> 
> ...


For all practical purposes, Chi is the whole being bigger than the sum of its parts. It is real enough, for me.


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## K-man (Sep 15, 2014)

And it's real enough for me. Perhaps before you go down this rabbit warren you might look at some of the threads from about 6 years ago. Things got quite intense.
:asian:


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 15, 2014)

Consider there are levels of fitness that you can actively be working on: Emotional; physical; spiritual (will to live); perceptual; and mental. If you are lacking in any one area, it will drag the others down with it; so, Chi might possibly be a sign all your ducks are in a row.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 15, 2014)

k-man said:


> and it's real enough for me. Perhaps before you go down this rabbit warren you might look at some of the threads from about 6 years ago. Things got quite intense.
> :asian:



lmao!


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 15, 2014)

Touch Of Death said:


> Consider there are levels of fitness that you can actively be working on: Emotional; physical; spiritual (will to live); perceptual; and mental. If you are lacking in any one area, it will drag the others down with it; so, Chi might possibly be a sign all your ducks are in a row.



i STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CHI IS, i PRESUME THAT WAS A CLEVER WAY OF TELLING ME BUT IT WENT OVER MY HEAD


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## K-man (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> i STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CHI IS, i PRESUME THAT WAS A CLEVER WAY OF TELLING ME BUT IT WENT OVER MY HEAD


Perhaps if you were to do a Google search there is a heap of information available. Some is total BS, some is good information. Perhaps you could do some research first then ask more specific questions. Chi/Ki means different things to different people.
:asian:


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## Tez3 (Sep 15, 2014)

Touch Of Death said:


> Consider there are levels of fitness that you can actively be working on: Emotional; physical; spiritual (will to live); perceptual; and mental. If you are lacking in any one area, it will drag the others down with it; so, Chi might possibly be a sign all your ducks are in a row.



Actually this is a very good explanation, I thought it easy to understand but perhaps I'm just a smart ****. :lfao:


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## Cirdan (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> i STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CHI IS, i PRESUME THAT WAS A CLEVER WAY OF TELLING ME BUT IT WENT OVER MY HEAD



Perhaps you need to improve your reflexes.


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## K-man (Sep 15, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Actually this is a very good explanation, I thought it easy to understand but perhaps I'm just a smart ****. :lfao:


Of course greater understanding comes with greater age! <ducks quickly>


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2014)

simplest definition based on translation, Qi is energy
simplest concept to understand; strong qi you are healthy, weak qi you are weak, no qi you are dead. 

Things get to the west and we tend to spiritualize and romanticize things, sometimes based on translation errors.... it is not all that complicated


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 15, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> simplest definition based on translation, Qi is energy
> simplest concept to understand; strong qi you are healthy, weak qi you are weak, no qi you are dead.
> 
> Things get to the west and we tend to spiritualize and romanticize things, sometimes based on translation errors.... it is not all that complicated



So im healthy I must have strong Qi then, but why use the word Qi or energy, why not say well nourished with plenty of spare glucose energy?

How does it affect punching power? Is it as simple as a poorly nourished unhealthy person is going to be pysically weak and not punch as hard as a healthy person?


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So im healthy I must have strong Qi then, but why use the word Qi or energy, why not say well nourished with plenty of spare glucose energy?
> 
> How does it affect punching power? Is it as simple as a poorly nourished unhealthy person is going to be pysically weak and not punch as hard as a healthy person?


Because being well fed is not the same thing as Chi.


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 15, 2014)

That would make my dog a zen master.


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## yak sao (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So im healthy I must have strong Qi then, but why use the word Qi or energy, why not say well nourished with plenty of spare glucose energy?
> 
> How does it affect punching power? Is it as simple as a poorly nourished unhealthy person is going to be pysically weak and not punch as hard as a healthy person?



I've heard it explained as the electrical impulses that flow inside our bodies.

Chinese language is different. Their alphabet is composed of characters that can express a certain object or it can express whole ideas or concepts. I think chi falls into this latter category.


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## mograph (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So im healthy I must have strong Qi then, but why use the word Qi or energy, why not say well nourished with plenty of spare glucose energy?
> 
> How does it affect punching power? Is it as simple as a poorly nourished unhealthy person is going to be physically weak and not punch as hard as a healthy person?



I'm with Xuesheng.
Adding to that ... I look at Qi like "zip." My friend Franco has a lot of "zip." He's quite healthy, energetic and vivacious. So it could be said that he has good Qi, or a lot of Qi. Now, he may have a lot of it (good quantity), but he may be nervous and erratic (bad quality). Calm, but with much in reserve would be good quantity and quality. Probably.

Or ... look at it this way. Imagine early Chinese studying people who were healthy and those who were sick. Those who were vibrant and those who were draggy. So ... what would be the difference between them? Well, the vibrant people had a lot more of ... something. They were full of life, the "whatever" that makes us live: they just have more of it. So the people studying them called this "whatever" thing ... "Qi." It relates to breath. It's just a way of describing something that is observed. 

Now then ... can Franco punch? He has to be trained to use his body to punch effectively. But if his Qi were low, if he were draggy or unhealthy, he probably wouldn't be able to punch with much power. Makes sense, doesn't it? 

Now, you can increase what you have through sensitivity, concentration and training. To make this scientific, consider how the brain can affect the body through the sympathetic nervous system: see a charging rhino and the pupils dilate, heart beats faster, breathing gets short, digestion shuts down and so on. This all comes from the brain after seeing a charging rhino and thinking "move it!" The brain affects the body, or the Yi affects the Qi. In my opinion, doing so basically improves your bodily functioning.
For more science, check out Dr. Shin Lin's work. He's a Chen practitioner, if I recall. Nice fellow: I was his tackling dummy in a demo.
UC Irvine - Faculty Profile System

The Chinese didn't invent Chi. It's simply a word for something we see all the time: the "whatever" that makes us go and makes chemical reactions happen. But instead of calling it "zip" or "Fred", the Chinese call it "Qi."

 ... but I would be wary of people who treat Qi like The Force, as some mystical electric-force-field-raygun thing that you add to a punch to make it stronger. We should also be wary of westerners (and easterners) who treat all things Oriental as mysterious and magical. This is orientalism.

Isn't there another forum about Qi?


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So im healthy I must have strong Qi then, but why use the word Qi or energy, why not say well nourished with plenty of spare glucose energy?
> 
> How does it affect punching power? Is it as simple as a poorly nourished unhealthy person is going to be pysically weak and not punch as hard as a healthy person?



actually qi is a translation into pinyin of this &#27668; which is the (simplified) Chinese character for it.

Not wanting to get into the actual Chinese language and the way it works because frankly that discussion is likely beyond me. Qi = energy and if you are talking Glucose energy there would be another Chinese character written with &#27668;. There are various types of Qi (energy)

As for punching it is also not all that complicated. I already posted in one of your Taiji threads about Yi, Qi, Li and Sandao (not Sanda). Look into those and you will see how it effects punching. One note on Sandao to avoid translation issues; Shen is translated as spirit but that is not spirituality to the Chinese, that is simply mind or thinking. Shen is one of those translation errors based on spiritualization and/or romanticization of Chinese by westerners


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> i STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CHI IS, i PRESUME THAT WAS A CLEVER WAY OF TELLING ME BUT IT WENT OVER MY HEAD


Ok try this... Chi is the sum of your levels of fitness, and you want a straight line. (-----), but most people are a (V) or maybe a (W).


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## Vajramusti (Sep 15, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Shen is one of those translation errors based on spiritualization and/or romanticization of Chinese by westerners


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lotts of errors due to mistranslation and smuggling in unwarranted assumptions.


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## Argus (Sep 15, 2014)

In Japanese:


&#27671;&#12365;spirit; mind; heart / nature; disposition / motivation; intention / mood; feelings / atmosphere; essence

It seems slightly different from the Chinese translation, though some Aikido guys definitely take it more in that direction.

I always wondered if "mind"/"intention" might be a good translation. I'm not one to believe in "chi" as a concrete force or energy, but I do believe in the power of visualization and mental imagery as it translates to physical use of one's body. Sometimes, mental imagery or proper "intent" is of much importance to moving/acting correctly.

To use Aikido as an example, you could as easily classify it as "blending with an opponent's intent" as "blending with an opponent's energy," and the mystical "unbendable arm" through which one "extends ki outwards" sounds a lot like the mentality, or intent that we have in the first section of Siu Lim Tao in Wing Chun to cultivate what we refer to as "lat sau jik chung." Or heck, even the way you control recoil when shooting a handgun, by "wanting to extend it outwards" as opposed to "wanting to pull it back down."

I know that's kind of a free interpretation, but that's my intuitive understanding... or perception, at any rate - be it right or wrong.


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## mograph (Sep 15, 2014)

Argus said:


> I always wondered if "mind"/"intention" might be a good translation.


Strictly speaking, the Chinese would use "Yi" for that, if my translation is accurate.

No worries ... if "ki" and "chi" don't mean the same thing (strictly speaking), that's cool. I've always admired Aikido.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2014)

mograph said:


> Strictly speaking, the Chinese would use "Yi" for that, if my translation is accurate.



Yup, yi is mind or intention

Yi, Qi, Li
Mind (Intent) directs Qi and Qi direct (or moves) muscle)


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## K-man (Sep 15, 2014)

The world can be divided into two groups up people. Those who have experienced Ki/Chi and those who haven't. Same here on MT.
:asian:


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## zzj (Sep 15, 2014)

Argus said:


> In Japanese:
> 
> 
> &#27671;&#12365;spirit; mind; heart / nature; disposition / motivation; intention / mood; feelings / atmosphere; essence
> ...



For all intents and purposes, the meaning is the same in Chinese. The big problem here is the linguistic conception, how knowledge and ideas are structured differently in Chinese (and to an extent Japanese or even Korean) as compared to English. Chinese language is defined by iconographic characters, the characters embody the ideas and concept within themselves while in English, the idea is abstract, and words are used to describe and approximate the meaning / idea. 

In a simplistic way of putting it, the word/character Chi or qi (&#27668 is the reality of the idea in itself, the scientific, physiological evidence of which are but manifestations of the ideological reality; the presence or lack thereof would have no direct bearing on the existence of &#27668; as a conceptual construct.

As my teacher would put it, whether chi is real or not is beyond doubt, as without chi, one would be dead. Chi to him (he is Mainland Chinese, a Chen villager by birth), is the reality of the idea, and not a so much an explicit scientific concept.


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## zzj (Sep 15, 2014)

Oh yes, with regards to how chi can be used etc, note that in Chinese, meanings are derived via correlation. Chi the idea in itself, it correlates to aliveness, vitality, the feeling of having energy, of intent (the will of the living) affecting energetic sensation. This is an over-arching conception in the Chinese language, but as you can see, that is not precise enough as a dictionary description, hence all the tangential arguments surrounding it.

On the slightly more esoteric side, if you train with the idea and intention of affecting the energetic sensations in your body, who is to say there isn't a real, resultant, quantifiable effect? At the very least your mind and body would be primed to operate as one; I'm open to the possibility that this type of training can affect 'real' (tangible) energy systems yet to be properly discovered and described in scientific terms.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 15, 2014)

So basically its a feeling and the ancient Chinese called that feeling Chi. 

So instead of feeling depressed they would say I feel like I have low Chi levels, or instead of feeling aware and happy they would say I have strong Chi. 

Getting to the bottom of this question has given me low Chi levels.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So basically its a feeling and the ancient Chinese called that feeling Chi.
> 
> So instead of feeling depressed they would say I feel like I have low Chi levels, or instead of feeling aware and happy they would say I have strong Chi.
> 
> Getting to the bottom of this question has given me low Chi levels.



nope that is not it at all. You are asking what Qi is, it is energy and has not so much to do with emotion.

Get Yang Jwing Ming's book about Qi, that is a good place to start if you really are trying to understand this


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## zzj (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So basically its a feeling and the ancient Chinese called that feeling Chi.
> 
> So instead of feeling depressed they would say I feel like I have low Chi levels, or instead of feeling aware and happy they would say I have strong Chi.
> 
> Getting to the bottom of this question has given me low Chi levels.



No, it is not a feeling.... It is not this or that, it is the IDEA of vital energy..(this is the best, concise approximation I can come up with)


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## K-man (Sep 15, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> So basically its a feeling and the ancient Chinese called that feeling Chi.
> 
> So instead of feeling depressed they would say I feel like I have low Chi levels, or instead of feeling aware and happy they would say I have strong Chi.
> 
> Getting to the bottom of this question has given me low Chi levels.


OK, my feelings about Ki initially come from Aikido. In the following video the type of thing I am looking for as utilisation of Ki comes at about the 8:15 mark of this video. Don't get hung up on the earlier exercises.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wb79scOWETs
It looks as if the guy is just going down for his instructor but it isn't the case. Others will point out that it is just biomechanics but in reality it goes way beyond biomechanics. 

As I said earlier. If you have felt it you know about it and if you haven't felt it you don't.
:asian:


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

K-man said:


> OK, my feelings about Ki initially come from Aikido. In the following video the type of thing I am looking for as utilisation of Ki comes at about the 8:15 mark of this video. Don't get hung up on the earlier exercises.
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wb79scOWETs
> It looks as if the guy is just going down for his instructor but it isn't the case. Others will point out that it is just biomechanics but in reality it goes way beyond biomechanics.
> 
> ...





That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and eccentric muscular strength, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. Thats all thats going on there scientifically. 

Starting to think this is all a load of ancient BS

It seems like Chi is simalr to the God of the gaps theory, when the ancient Chinese didnt know what something was or how it worked they called it Chi, in the west when we didnt understand why or how something worked we said God did it. I think this is what Chi comes down to perhaps.

When he says let the Ki/Chi flow what really is going on is that he is saying stop using your muscles concentrically and let the natural instinct to resiSt isometrically/eccentrically take over when that person pulls on your fingers. (your fingers being attached by levers to your stronger forearm muscles and other bigger pulling muscles, so its no where near as impressive as it seems to some.


THE DEFINITION OF CHI IS "WE DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON HERE SCIENTIFICALLY SO WE ARE GONNA CALL IT CHI"


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## K-man (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and eccentric muscular strength, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. Thats all thats going on there scientifically.
> 
> Starting to think this is all a load of ancient BS
> 
> ...


Then I have obviously wasted eight years of training. Sad really.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

K-man said:


> Then I have obviously wasted eight years of training. Sad really.



Not really theres merit behind what he is teaching, its just he doesn't understand whats going on in a scientific way only in a myth based way. 

Looks like you picked up alot of myths and a sarcasm ego defense along with your semi effective martial arts training.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and eccentric muscular strength, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. Thats all thats going on there scientifically.
> 
> Starting to think this is all a load of ancient BS
> 
> ...



Nope again, lot of scientific studies done on it, do you read or speak Mandarin? See Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Also for studies in English look to the World Health Organization. Or stop looking for simple short sentence answers and read Dr Yang's book on the subject. 

You are not getting this at all...... what makes your muscles move?

Frankly at this point I'm done, I have tried to make this as simple as possible and you still are not getting it, or you don't want to get it, I'm not sure which one but I'm leaning towards the later. You are looking for a simple answer that fits whatever you have already decided it should be and your not getting so now that you have decided you do not get it then you deem it BS. Big problem when it comes to Qi is all the baggage that comes with it from a Western perspective, get past that and you might start to figure it out, and it is not all that complicated.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> Not really theres merit behind what he is teaching, its just he doesn't understand whats going on in a scientific way only in a myth based way.
> 
> Looks like you picked up alot of myths and a sarcasm ego defense along with your semi effective martial arts training.




Yeah there it is.... was not sure we were gong to taker it here..... I must admit that was a long way around that was veiled pretty nicely in what appeared to be a desire to learn something....but alas.... it wasn't.... just another MMA vs TMA bashing thread...... I must admit you did a good job of hiding it...... 

You have a nice day.... Xue Sheng out


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Nope again, lot of scientific studies done on it, do you read or speak Mandarin? See Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Also for studies in English look to the World Health Organization. Or stop looking for simple short sentence answers and read Dr Yang's book on the subject.
> 
> You are not getting this at all...... what makes your muscles move?
> 
> ...



Answer me this, you say Chi is energy, well what type of energy is it from the physical world?

My cup IS still empty, so please, dont crap in it!


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> Answer me this, you say Chi is energy, well what type of energy is it from the physical world?



Answer me this....what moves your muscles....... 

Pretty much already answered your question and pointed you in the direction as to where you can learn more......last time, read Dr Yang's book and then maybe will talk.....

Like I said, Xue Sheng out.... have a nice day


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Answer me this....what moves your muscles.......
> 
> Pretty much already answered your question and pointed you in the direction as to where you can learn more......last time, read Dr Yang's book and then maybe will talk.....
> 
> Like I said, Xue Sheng out.... have a nice day



Are you saying its kinetic energy? Electrical? What energy do you mean? 

Muscles work via a filament shortening to create a pulling motion between two places, triggered by the nervous system.

Also why do you have to drop hints why not tell me directly? e.g. its this energy or that energy, why the need for hints?


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## Cirdan (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel`s cup may be empty but he is holding it upside down.


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

cirdan said:


> towel`s cup may be empty but he is holding it upside down.



lmao@!@


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

Breathe?


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## Towel Snapper (Sep 16, 2014)

Cmon stop rick rollin me guys and tell me straight.


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## mograph (Sep 16, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> Are you saying its kinetic energy? Electrical? What energy do you mean?
> 
> Muscles work via a filament shortening to create a pulling motion between two places, triggered by the nervous system.
> 
> Also why do you have to drop hints why not tell me directly? e.g. its this energy or that energy, why the need for hints?


Your cup is not empty: you are seeking to define Qi in terms of Western science. We must not treat science as truth. It is not. Good scientists know that. Science is a human-designed method of mapping nature based on philosophy, argument, claims, organized questions, organized observations and organized conclusions. Nothing IS electrical energy: that is just a human phrase for an observed phenomenon. Kinetic energy? Like potential energy, that's a construct. It's not measured, it's _calculated_ from measurable mass, position change and time.

We should not hang onto our scientific constructs as if they ARE nature: they are merely our maps of nature. And while science makes pretty good maps, they should not be mistaken for nature.

Back to Qi and Xuesheng's muscle issue: to go a bit deeper, sure, filaments tighten to shorten a muscle. But what makes the filaments tighten? Electrochemical reactions, right? What makes electrochemical reactions happen? Nuclear forces, maybe? What makes those happen?

This goes to my "whatever" construct: nuclear bonds, charges, reactions at the subatomic level ... what makes those happen? Does science have a name for it? Let's give it a name: "Fred." Or we could use "Qi." It doesn't matter. 

Now ... can we use it to our benefit? That's the real question.


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## Cirdan (Sep 16, 2014)

Thoughts, will, feelings, intentions, focus.. things that can`t be fully measured or fit into precise models as of yet but exist just as well. I am as sceptical as they come (and my day job is in a lab btw), but that does not mean nothing exists until it can be defined and pinpointed precisely. Models are by definition simplifications of what we experience. Chi does not fit right into a model because it is what we have before simplifying rather than after.


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## mograph (Sep 19, 2014)

This is John Vervaeke, one of my Profs at U of T, speaking about qi. He's a cognitive scientist, a very smart guy and a great teacher. His lectures are not sound bites, they're concepts building on concepts.





Yes, it's about an hour and twenty long. Hey, it's a lecture!

... but there's no shame in looking up some of the terms (such as "epistemic") he uses. I have to do that, because I'm not a cognitive scientist.

(FYI, I'm a middle-aged guy, getting my B.Sc. in Psychology part-time.)


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## K-man (Sep 19, 2014)

mograph said:


> This is John Vervaeke, one of my Profs at U of T, speaking about qi. He's a cognitive scientist, a very smart guy and a great teacher. His lectures are not sound bites, they're concepts building on concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really interesting to hear his take on it. Things like zone of proximal development (beyond your skills) and bi-directional modelling link in with what we experience in practice. I'd really like to be able to discuss it with him first hand. He uses the expression weird. When people ask me about Ki I tell them it is 'weird science'. Thank you for posting.
:asian:


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## Tez3 (Sep 19, 2014)

Towel Snapper said:


> That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and *eccentric muscular strength*, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. ............................................
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## K-man (Sep 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> Towel Snapper said:
> 
> 
> > That guy is highly ignorant and believing in myths, its not Ki its isometric and *eccentric muscular strength*, if you use concentric strength its weaker than isometric or eccentric strength. Its harder to do a 1 armed pull up than it is to start at the top of a one armed pull up and resist being dragged down by gravity. ............................................
> ...


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## Tez3 (Sep 19, 2014)

K-man said:


> Tez3 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'm just eccentric.
> ...


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## K-man (Sep 19, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> K-man said:
> 
> 
> > You have to be English to be eccentric, it's in the genes, everyone else is just bonkers. :lool:
> ...


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## Touch Of Death (Sep 20, 2014)

I am a bit brick-shy, myself. ... from Brickshire.


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 20, 2014)

I inherited a Scottish Baronial title (sadly, without a castle, land or serfs). Does that qualify me to be labeled "eccentric" rather than "starkers"?


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## K-man (Sep 20, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> I inherited a Scottish Baronial title (sadly, without a castle, land or serfs). Does that qualify me to be labeled "eccentric" rather than "starkers"?


Mate, if you are running round 'starkers' then that undoubtably qualifies you as something but Tez has cornered the 'eccentric' tag for the English. Now Scotland was almost a different country entirely but seeing they elected to stay in the Union you can have the choice of 'inane', 'irrational' or 'insecure'. Hmm, I might leave that up to you ... but congratulations my Lord on your elevation. I will endeavour to be more humble in your presence.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm related to Frederick William I of Prussia and my ex-wife (who was simply looking for ways to be elitist with all those she knew) figured out that somehow through a marriage of, I believe it was one of his daughters, to someone in England I am also related (if true I'm guessing barely related) to the house of Windsor....wow that was a lot of typing to simply ask... can I then be eccentric


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## Dirty Dog (Sep 20, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> I'm related to Frederick William I of Prussia and my ex-wife (who was simply looking for ways to be elitist with all those she knew) figured out that somehow through a marriage of, I believe it was one of his daughters, to someone in England I am also related (if true I'm guessing barely related) to the house of Windsor....wow that was a lot of typing to simply ask... can I then be eccentric



That's certainly an eccentric family tree...


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 20, 2014)

Dirty Dog said:


> That's certainly an eccentric family tree...



It gets better...... another branch (both on my mothers side) got kicked out of Scotland by James the 1st.... and they went to Ireland..... where they where not welcome and then moved on to Nova Scotia..... umm.... where they were not welcome... and then moved to Pennsylvania...and they were home 

Oh and then the 2 branches meant and the rest is history


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## cloud dancing (Sep 20, 2014)

There is pre-birth chi.when inside the mother's womb it is ONE.there is no in and out breath the breath is one.Hindus say inside baby stays in Samadhi-merged with creative life force. After birth the chi divides into two.Yin and yang.Inbreath is first,Baby is born and first breath is in =yang =light. then human dies- breathes out=yin=darkness.Birth is LIGHT.DEATH is DARKNESS.when practising one breathes to the dtan tien with tongue lightly up to the back of the teeth.Breathing in to an imaginary small soccer ball inside the abdomen.When the chi accumulates strength increases.Chi is the manifestation of soul/inner energy /god into this world.Muscles ahve force not chi.Chi cneters in the tendons and in the bone marrow.Sea of chi is inside the dtan tien. chi must be exprienced to be understood.As you practise the internal arts,time comes when you FEEL THE CHI moving you.effortless effort is the chi,As if the move is doing itself.With daily practise comes experience.MASTER LI SAID EXTEND YOUR FINGERS-the energy you feel is the chi.Chi allows the miracles extreme power of the greats/Yang cheng fu.pa qua masters etc. Chi is energy but existing inside the breath.With each breath chi enters and exits the body.hindus would say pranayama. many will troll what I have to say this is my experience and is a simple as I can explain it.One mastre in Tuscon Arizona asked his students"Do you belive that Jesus walked on water?" He took a small group to an isolated area and showed them how with the CHI he was able to walk on the water.Yang Cheng fu would walk and leave no footprints.then walk and the snow under his feet would be completely melted.Chi manifests as heat or cold .One example was that a neighbor asked Yang if he could borrow some money.Master Yang said Grab hold of the end of my spear and I will throw you onto the roof of my house.If you land standing up-I will loan you the money.He did and was thrown onto the roof landing standing up.Science says it is impossible to generate strength from the hands being the fulcrum the spear the lever to throw a 150 or 160pound man from the ground onto the 15 foot high roof of a house. Simply practise dtan breathing.what does an apple taste like= eat one and find out.Chi is the divine enrgy of the soul manifesting into the physical world of duality which why chi is postulated as yin=darkness & yang-light.Saying it is a Chinese word is {my opinion} simply a copout for not being able to explain it with simplicity or just not knowing what it is. LIGHT DESTROYS DARKNESS.KNOWLEDGE DESTROYS IGNORANCE.


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## Tez3 (Sep 20, 2014)

cloud dancing said:


> There is pre-birth chi.when inside the mother's womb it is ONE.there is no in and out breath the breath is one.Hindus say inside baby stays in Samadhi-merged with creative life force. After birth the chi divides into two.Yin and yang.Inbreath is first,Baby is born and first breath is in =yang =light. then human dies- breathes out=yin=darkness.Birth is LIGHT.DEATH is DARKNESS.when practising one breathes to the dtan tien with tongue lightly up to the back of the teeth.Breathing in to an imaginary small soccer ball inside the abdomen.When the chi accumulates strength increases.Chi is the manifestation of soul/inner energy /god into this world.Muscles ahve force not chi.Chi cneters in the tendons and in the bone marrow.Sea of chi is inside the dtan tien. chi must be exprienced to be understood.As you practise the internal arts,time comes when you FEEL THE CHI moving you.effortless effort is the chi,As if the move is doing itself.With daily practise comes experience.MASTER LI SAID EXTEND YOUR FINGERS-the energy you feel is the chi.Chi allows the miracles extreme power of the greats/Yang cheng fu.pa qua masters etc. Chi is energy but existing inside the breath.With each breath chi enters and exits the body.hindus would say pranayama. many will troll what I have to say this is my experience and is a simple as I can explain it.One mastre in Tuscon Arizona asked his students"Do you belive that Jesus walked on water?" He took a small group to an isolated area and showed them how with the CHI he was able to walk on the water.Yang Cheng fu would walk and leave no footprints.then walk and the snow under his feet would be completely melted.Chi manifests as heat or cold .One example was that a neighbor asked Yang if he could borrow some money.Master Yang said Grab hold of the end of my spear and I will throw you onto the roof of my house.If you land standing up-I will loan you the money.He did and was thrown onto the roof landing standing up.Science says it is impossible to generate strength from the hands being the fulcrum the spear the lever to throw a 150 or 160pound man from the ground onto the 15 foot high roof of a house. Simply practise dtan breathing.what does an apple taste like= eat one and find out.Chi is the divine enrgy of the soul manifesting into the physical world of duality which why chi is postulated as yin=darkness & yang-light.Saying it is a Chinese word is {my opinion} simply a copout for not being able to explain it with simplicity or just not knowing what it is. LIGHT DESTROYS DARKNESS.KNOWLEDGE DESTROYS IGNORANCE.[/QUOTE
> 
> THIS WINS THE PRIZE I BELIEVE.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 20, 2014)

Tez3 said:


> THIS WINS THE PRIZE I BELIEVE.



Yup... you could call it that....  it sure is a winner


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## Tez3 (Sep 20, 2014)

Xue Sheng said:


> Yup... you could call it that....  it sure is a winner




Yep, I abdicate my crown of eccentricity. We have a new winner.


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## mograph (Sep 20, 2014)

K-man said:


> Really interesting to hear his take on it. Things like zone of proximal development (beyond your skills) and bi-directional modelling link in with what we experience in practice. I'd really like to be able to discuss it with him first hand. He uses the expression weird. When people ask me about Ki I tell them it is 'weird science'. Thank you for posting.
> :asian:


Thanks for watching. Vervaeke has plenty of videos on YouTube. 
I hope to take his Tai Chi class next week. I'll report back.


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## mograph (Sep 20, 2014)

cloud dancing said:


> There is pre-birth chi. ... KNOWLEDGE DESTROYS IGNORANCE.


This is why I have trouble with the word "is." When I look at this kind of thing, with its "ises" and "equals", I just see it as a lot of metaphor or representations and I'm fine with it. 

Except the descriptions of magical abilities of sages. Not for me.

... but I'm part Irish, English & Australian, for what it's worth.


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## Cirdan (Sep 20, 2014)

After reading cloud dancing`s post I realize I must practice a lot more to master water walking trough chi. Either that or just get really fat so I can float.


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## Xue Sheng (Sep 20, 2014)

mograph said:


> This is why I have trouble with the word "is." When I look at this kind of thing, with its "ises" and "equals", I just see it as a lot of metaphor or representations and I'm fine with it.
> 
> Except the descriptions of magical abilities of sages. Not for me.
> 
> ... but I'm part Irish, English & Australian, for what it's worth.



Don't get me started on "is". I was in a meeting once where they were actually having a serious discussion about the political correctness of the placement of the word "is" on a webpage..... then it got to silly and I left the meeting.

Sorry for the derailment but that IS what I felt I had to do at this juncture


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## mograph (Sep 20, 2014)

Hey, if a thread's OP is banned, are we obligated to stay on topic?


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## zzj (Sep 21, 2014)

mograph said:


> Hey, if a thread's OP is banned, are we obligated to stay on topic?



Didn't realize he got banned. Anyway I think he is the same guy who keeps spamming Yahoo Answers with similar questions about Tai Chi and Power etc.


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## cloud dancing (Sep 22, 2014)

thanks Tez3.Xue Sheng et all.Glad when can contribute anything that adds to understanding or simply 
opens minds to new ideas.I came to this forum for inspiration and help to keep my practise up.stupid me/made friends with someone not sane nor kind.Upset my training.
Tez 3-every time I read your quote-fighting opponent,demons o doubt,exhaustion,failures... unrelenting voice o doubt that tells me to stop.. know I will be VICTORIUS. Does gie me some inspiration. Hope.
Cirdan-What senses do we lack--- 42 years /Dec11 since gift of third eye opening.Still is worldinside that I daily reach for enter but frightens me.Requires letting go and just experiencing.In that world I have control only to  make my daily effort. September 28th{hopefully} will again listen to ,be with Master Rawat in Putrajaya Malaysia.Spending $500 for 1 1/2 hours with one who's love is unequalled ,understands me bettre than I understand myself/showed me MY SELF/INNER SELF.Old saying "Blow in my ear and I'll follow you anywhere." Seems true,since "Holy Breath" in 1974 life's been diferent and have followed Prem Rawat across the USA/Europe and still have to make more more more effort to go inside and grow.
I'm not bragging but many of you humble me with years of training and experience in these arts waay beyond what I've done/learned.But inside,inside my HEART, I feel equal to most anyone.                       Light destroys darkness.Faith destroys fear.  Knowledge destroys ignorance.                                              Glad to be on this forum.I  always need inspiration.Thankful for it when it's given.


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## ShotoNoob (Mar 18, 2015)

Xue Sheng said:


> simplest definition based on translation, Qi is energy
> simplest concept to understand; strong qi you are healthy, weak qi you are weak, no qi you are dead.
> 
> Things get to the west and we tend to spiritualize and romanticize things, sometimes based on translation errors.... it is not all that complicated


^^^^
My understanding of basic definition.  Came over here to escape the "KIAI MASTER FAIL" T......................


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## Shai Hulud (Mar 18, 2015)

Psycho-Bio-electric energy.


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## mograph (Mar 18, 2015)

Shai Hulud said:


> Psycho-Bio-electric energy.


Yeah, pretty much. I think that when you start digging to find out why stuff happens, when you get below mechanical, biological, electrical, chemical, atomic, subatomic mechanisms ... and you have to stop because you don't know what drives _those_ mechanisms ... that's the thingie that some call "chi." 

Now, can we _manipulate_ chi without using other processes (e.g. biological, physiological)? That's another discussion. 

(BTW, a neurophysiologist might not want to include "psycho-" there, possibly working from an assumption that psychological mechanisms are biological in nature.)(I'm working on my B.Sc. in Psychology.)


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