# Atillo Balintawak Basic Techniques Page!



## Brian R. VanCise (May 19, 2007)

Take a look!

http://www.atillobalintawak.com/Techniques/techniques.html


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## TaiChiTJ (May 19, 2007)

That book-like presentation is cool. :ultracool


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## Robert Klampfer (May 20, 2007)

Instead of basic defense and counter, I'd rather see those techniques used in the  death match against Anciong Bacon: http://atillobalintawak.com/History/history.html :lfao:

"Atillo list the following as the real fighters of the Balintawak Club:  
...*Ising Atillo* - Publicly documented - 1st death match against Lauren Sanchez; second against Antonio Irogirog; *third against Bacon*; and fourth against Cacoy Canete."

Robert


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## Rich Parsons (May 20, 2007)

Robert Klampfer said:


> Instead of basic defense and counter, I'd rather see those techniques used in the death match against Anciong Bacon: http://atillobalintawak.com/History/history.html :lfao:
> 
> "Atillo list the following as the real fighters of the Balintawak Club:
> ...*Ising Atillo* - Publicly documented - 1st death match against Lauren Sanchez; second against Antonio Irogirog; *third against Bacon*; and fourth against Cacoy Canete."
> ...



Robert,

Thank you I needed your comment.


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## teovel'sBalintawak (May 22, 2007)

Robert Klampfer said:


> Instead of basic defense and counter, I'd rather see those techniques used in the  death match against Anciong Bacon: http://atillobalintawak.com/History/history.html :lfao:
> 
> "Atillo list the following as the real fighters of the Balintawak Club:
> ...*Ising Atillo* - Publicly documented - 1st death match against Lauren Sanchez; second against Antonio Irogirog; *third against Bacon*; and fourth against Cacoy Canete."
> ...



Death Match?????? How come nobody died that day??? Ising and Anciong were  physically even in size. Actually Ising challenge Anciong to a one on one basketball game which he won(score 22-21). Then Anciong got his revenge by challenging Ising on a hide and seek game in which Anciong won too.


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## Morgan (Jun 6, 2007)

Brian R. VanCise said:


> Take a look!
> 
> http://www.atillobalintawak.com/Techniques/techniques.html


 
Hello Mr. VanCise, I like what was posted on the site and the order seemed sensible and quite direct.  Setting aside for a moment any
consideration of controversy surring the man himself, the Atillo System
appears to have a very practical approach.  Please understand that I'm not making any comparisons at all with any other approach.  I'm simply saying that within the Atillo System itself, there is a good deal of internal consistancy as I moved through the 4 sets of techniques/training formats
presented on the web site.

Morgan


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## soncen (Jun 30, 2007)

Hello everyone,

Im here again! I know that a lot of people really like and appreciate the style of Ising Atillo. But I just only want to correct some misinformation; firstly the style of Ising Atillo is not really a Balintawak style that was taught by our great Grandmaster Anciong Bacon for the reason that he is not a student to Anciong himself and his father who was once a student to Anciong did not adapt the Balintawak style he learned from Anciong and did not teach him with the style. Everybody saw the difference in his basic lessons although he had copied some techniques of the Balintawak in checking and in the at random play. I saw some of his techniques and I saw how Cacoy Canete had tamed him down in the video, the only fight of him that I heard in truth was publicly documented. Anciong Bacon was not known to have even a single defeat from several testing and death matches here in Cebu, instead he was only feared even by some bigger people. Ising was not able to counter from the clutches of his opponent in the video a clear indication that he lacks the ability of the Balintawak style of Anciong Bacon. 

Anciong Bacons teaching did not fit in a tournament style competition as he once said, we fight in order to defend to avoid from harm. In Balintawak there is no such thing as foul as every opportunity to inflict any parts of the opponents body is counted in your favor. *The Balintawak people** do not engage in any sports fight nor challenge anybody only to show and brag about the superiority of their skill and gain prestige. Because Anciong teaches them only to defend and not to seek trouble after learning of the art nor challenge anybody who is boasting of their superiority of arnis, but have to fight when challenged or provoked only to defend and you cannot follow certain rules if your life was in imminent danger. That was what the instruction from Anciong which his students abide by this principle. Balintawak was a style attributed to Anciongs Martial art which also a name given to the organization (BALINTAWAK ARNIS GROUP INTERNATIONAL) established by Mr. Teofilo Velez and Atty Villasin with the permission from Anciong. Other student of Anciong did not join but established there own organization like Vicente Atillo who named his organization as NACVAM.*

*Ising engaged in sports fight because he is not a Balintawak and he is not covered by Anciongs principles and was not compelled to follow the same (I say not a Balintawak because he is not a student to Anciong the inventor of the art) what he portrayed is not a kind of Balintawak we are thinking of and the reason is because his teacher was only his father who do not adopt the style of Anciong although he has been learning the art with Anciong once upon a time. Vicente Atillo teaches his son with the arnis style of Doring Saavedra and Dorings style is not a Balintawak because the style was Anciongs. Anciong had portrayed his skills many times in a challenged fight, what more do he needed to show, because for him sports is a lost of time. In Balintawak controlling of strikes only applies to our students but not for the enemy, because Balintawak people are not sports minded. Anciong invented martial art style that has given a name Balintawak by his students (not an art founded by Anciong but invented). *

*It is true that Anciong and Vicente Atillo was both student to Lorenzo Saavedra in the 1920s, but after the death of Saavedra, Anciong seceded from the group and invented his own which is now different in forms from the Saavedras. Vicente Atillo was only invited by Delfin Lopez to also learn with this new Martial art of Anciong and Vicente Atillo became a member to Anciongs group because he is learning with it, others that are not learning are not considered members to Anciongs group and besides there is no formal organization on that moment but only some sort of fellowship with businessmen fans who idolizes him. So if Vicente teaches the art of Anciong, then his students would also be a Balintawak because that is the style of Anciong that they are learning and not the other else. But Vicente did not teach the Balintawak to his son and you can see the difference is very clear enough although his son had copied some forms and movements, but the real Balintawak practitioner can really identify the true Balintawak style. *

*The only mistake is that (if it is true) Vicente had suggested to his son to bring the name Balintawak of his style when his son was not following the style of Anciong but only embracing on the Saavedras style. As I had said before Anciong is not an organizer of any group nor founded an organization because he lacks formal education and that is the reason. He also does not want to join a group to be under a leader who in his own judgment cannot be superior to him in terms of ability. So therefore Vicente and Delfin cannot claim to be a co-founder because there is no organization founded but teaching of the newly invented martial art only and they are only a student to Anciong who are only learning of the art and no other activities except training sessions only, although sometimes they are invited in a banquet by some businessmen and pose for picture taking.*

*Wilson R. Ceniza*


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## Robert Klampfer (Jun 30, 2007)

As always, Wilson is a walking encyclopedia of Balintawak history!  :rtfm:

Robert


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## Rich Parsons (Jun 30, 2007)

soncen said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Im here again! I know that a lot of people really like and appreciate the style of Ising Atillo. But I just only want to correct some misinformation; firstly the style of Ising Atillo is not really a Balintawak style that was taught by our great Grandmaster Anciong Bacon for the reason that he is not a student to Anciong himself and his father who was once a student to Anciong did not adapt the Balintawak style he learned from Anciong and did not teach him with the style. Everybody saw the difference in his basic lessons although he had copied some techniques of the Balintawak in checking and in the at random play. I saw some of his techniques and I saw how Cacoy Canete had tamed him down in the video, the only fight of him that I heard in truth was publicly documented. Anciong Bacon was not known to have even a single defeat from several testing and death matches here in Cebu, instead he was only feared even by some bigger people. Ising was not able to counter from the clutches of his opponent in the video a clear indication that he lacks the ability of the Balintawak style of Anciong Bacon.
> 
> ...




Wilson,

Thank you for the post.

As a minor student of history, I have learned to look at multiple sources, and to then filter out some fo the differences stated or recorded to try to get a simple view and picture of what happened. 

From my experience, every branch or family of Balintawak all agree that the art is from Manong Anciong and it was his teachings. 

The Atillo' version is the only one that stands out as not even having an intersection with the other families. 

This is why I really appreciate your post as the more of us who are from differnet linages and families who present what we know from our instructors the less this single version seems to hold water.

:asian:



PS: A few years ago when some fo this frist came out in the Escrima Digest, I posted my thoughts. Those thoughts were that if Mr. Atillo had trained with his dad and others of that era then he should have something to offer people. Just go and teach and show what you have. If people like it then they will train with you. If they do not then they will move on. There is no reason to make such statements as he and his supporters have made.


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## barawsugbo (Jul 2, 2007)

hi 
this is dieter from germany.

thanks Wilson for your indeep view of the balintawak history.
beeing a student of ising atillo back in the 80s I remember well the different stories of the balintawak origin and roots.
my main interest at that time was to study a practical stickfighting style who fits well into my wingchunkungfu.
after comparing the socalled grouping styles with that "balintawak" of Vincente and Ising Atillo-
I chose the "Atillo style", because I felt the groupings very strange compared to the economic movement of the WC system. And so far I know  the grouping system of balintawak was not Anciongs child but was "created" by Villasin and Velez. And some other  older balintawaks developed a aversion against the groupings itself.

At that time( early to mid 80s) the agak and cuentada that Ising and his father vincente practised and showed us, was very similar to todays youtube clips of the other balintawak styles.

so far I know was Vincente and his son Ising a member of the club-and both learned more or less during that membership from anciong and his seniors- or what else have they done at the club??
the atillos seperated in 1975 to form the phil.arnis confederation. maranga had left the club already to form his own style of balintawak-tres personas-
according to the new fma book from dr.nepangue was Ising atillo the leader of a small balintawak streetgang back in the 60s. thats what ising told me-he fought many "fights" in the name of balintawak.

also the "sports" challenge and "fight" against cacoy indicates that Ising has been fighing for the balintawaks- who else dares?? I know timor maranga acts as referee, who was very close ( as a friend and also  technically) to the atillos.
and to speak of marangas CEM-it is balintawak-modified shure-but balintawak.

so if nowadays only the grouping styles may be called balintawak.... i will not agree.
there are differences between the early balintawaks (atillo, maranga,moncal) to the "later" Villasin,Velez etc.
but the teaching, principels and techniques are  mostly the same- in my oppinion in that manner as tabimina is similar to velez to taboada to.... etc.

beside the history battle and politics I know that today its not enough to play good-but to speak loud and behave "wild" to attract the eyes of the crowd belongs to the game also.

I know also, that as a nonfilipino, I cannot even touch the surface of truth.
thanks again for your insight and I hope to get more informations from that exciting time.

train hard or somebody else does

regards dieter


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## arnisador (Jul 2, 2007)

barawsugbo said:


> beeing a student of ising atillo back in the 80s I remember well the different stories of the balintawak origin and roots.
> my main interest at that time was to study a practical stickfighting style who fits well into my wingchunkungfu.
> after comparing the socalled grouping styles with that "balintawak" of Vincente and Ising Atillo-
> I chose the "Atillo style", because I felt the groupings very strange compared to the economic movement of the WC system. And so far I know  the grouping system of balintawak was not Anciongs child but was "created" by Villasin and Velez. And some other  older balintawaks developed a aversion against the groupings itself.



Yes, I know the groupings approach developed rather later.

So did the Balintawak fit well with your Wing Chun, then? I gather it's worked out for you!


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## Rich Parsons (Jul 2, 2007)

barawsugbo said:


> hi
> this is dieter from germany.
> 
> thanks Wilson for your indeep view of the balintawak history.
> ...



Dieter,

I studied with Manong Ted Buot who taught on Balintawak Street when Manong Anciong was not present for class time. 

We do not nor have we ever done any groupings per the Villasin and Velez lineage. Of course there is ABECEDARIO which is 1 - 12 in order and therefore could be called the most basic grouping of all. After that we do Seguidas which is the numbers out of order. Then we move on to Corraidas where it as Manong Ted says is "The mixing Bowl". It is all just random. Of course the instructor will guide the student to test a specific technique in particular one he just taught as a single isolated move. 

My issues with the Atillo Balintawak have been the claim of being over all the other families and of being the only ones and the best ones and also to have beat Manong Anciong. Not that Manong Anciong could never have been touched, it just does not ring true. When all the families Groupings or original or modified or ..., say one thing with the exception of Atillo, then I have to ask myself why? And when it disagrees with someone who was there in the 60's and early 70's teaching, I really have to ask why?

So this is not the Grouping portion of the families trying to be nasty to the non grouping portion. This is some of us who have talked to and trained with people who were around at that time who disagree with what he says. NOTE: I never made a comment about is skill set, other than I would expect it to be good based upon the time frame and with those he studied with. So my issues and the issue of many are the "Stories" and politics being told and passed off as truths. When other families no matter how much they have changed or modified the system, have commonalities that do not intersect with the stories being told by Atillo. 

So, I support your comments, and just wanted to clarify that this is not a bashing by families for teaching styles. It is about the stories, as I read it.


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## soncen (Aug 28, 2007)

barawsugbo said:


> hi
> this is dieter from germany.
> 
> thanks Wilson for your indeep view of the balintawak history.
> ...


 
Hello Mr. Dieter,

I suppose you are now becoming interested in knowing the real truth about the history of the Balintawak Arnis. Well I have been posting plenty of them in many discussion forums if you only surf around. 

One of the components of the Balintawak Arnis is the practical way of stick fighting aside from bare hand combat and blade (knife/bolo) fighting, and if you only train with the Balintawak style you will see the economy of movements, but I am not belittling your intelligence. You choose Isings style because you felt that groupings is very strange and wont fits into your wingchunkungfu. What had people do not see in the Teovel Balintawak Arnis is that the elements in the grouping system was always there in the original teaching of Anciong, only that it was clustered by Mr. Velez so that there is proper order of teaching and the students will understand easily when he takes up in the Cuentada lessons and the outcome is just the same thing that Anciong had taught to make it more difficult for the opponent to counter because there is a ready counter and re-counter on the counter attack of the opponent. 

You will not understand this because you did not study the real Balintawak Arnis. I saw your demonstrations in youtube and I observed you really had gotten the style of Ising Atillo. Atillo had successfully copied some figures of the Balintawak techniques through observation and watching over, but those were only a small fraction of our style (a one way traffic movement) added to his own style. The grouping system of teaching was not competing with that of the original method of teaching of Anciong but Mr. Velez was only trying to improve the quality of teaching for himself to thoroughly project the style of Anciongs martial art to his students. We recognized as brother Balintawak all those that are originated from our great Grandmaster Venancio Bacon but we exclude those that are not learning with the style although using the same name of Balintawak.

The name Balintawak was already attributed to Anciong Bacon therefore cannot be taken by other people especially to those that are very inimical to him and the entire world must know the real truth. I know that some might be offended with my story and I am very sorry, but I have to speak what Ive heard and learned about the history of our martial art, because I cannot afford to play mute and blind and let those people continue to spread out their wild imagination which I think were only vying to attract attentions. Anciong was not teaching to be violent and if their is a Balintawak street-gang in the mid 60s, I think Anciong has nothing to do with that gang because what he instill to his student is only to defend himself from the bullies and not seeking trouble in the name of Balintawak but wont withdraw in any challenge fight. Ising cannot fight in the name of Balintawak because his style is not Balintawak.

Anciong dont need other people to bring the name Balintawak to fight for them because Balintawak people themselves can fight well for themselves. Timor Maranga was a student to Anciong and a member of Anciongs Balintawak group he cannot act as referee if we say and if it is true that Ising was a member of the same group because it would be unfair to his opponent. But Cacoy take the challenge because he knows that Ising's style was inferior compared to his style and besides Cacoy knows that Ising is not a member to Anciongs group. Cacoy has high respect to Anciong and he knows that Anciong was not a troublemaker. I hope this information would help you find the real truth.

Respectfully,

Wilson R. Ceniza
Teovel Balintawak Arnis
(Yellow Chapter Division)


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 28, 2007)

soncen said:


> Hello Mr. Dieter,
> 
> I suppose you are now becoming interested in knowing the real truth about the history of the Balintawak Arnis. Well I have been posting plenty of them in many discussion forums if you only surf around.
> 
> ...



Wilson,

There are others who do not use the grouping methods. 

But I agree with your comments about Ising. 

Thanks


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## soncen (Aug 28, 2007)

Rich Parsons said:


> Wilson,
> 
> There are others who do not use the grouping methods.
> 
> ...


 
Hello Rich,

Yes Rich! you are right, there are others who do not use the grouping methods especially those that are direct students to Noy Anciong because they have been used to teach in that original method and Noy Teddy use the same because he is a direct student to Noy Anciong. 

It is only in the lineage of Mr. Velez who uses the grouping method, because that was the way they learned, but my teacher Teofilo Roma a student to Mr. Velez showed to me how Noy Anciong's teaching style was being done, because he was once also had trained with Noy Anciong in the 1970's when he was freed from prison, and I see all the elements in grouping method was there in the original teaching of Noy Anciong. It is only that it was clustered by Mr. Velez to his own comfort in imparting the skill to his students and his student uses the same method in teaching because that is what they've learned in imparting the skill of the Balintawak Arnis. 

All Balintawak people are considered brothers may it be grouping system or not because the origin was from only one person and that is from Noy Anciong, those who did not learned from Anciong's style are not Balintawak although using the name. We apologized to all victims of the malevolence of some of our countrymen, a lot of people deeply believed in the very misleading story of this person that we are talking about.

Wilson


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## Rich Parsons (Aug 29, 2007)

soncen said:


> Hello Rich,
> 
> Yes Rich! you are right, there are others who do not use the grouping methods especially those that are direct students to Noy Anciong because they have been used to teach in that original method and Noy Teddy use the same because he is a direct student to Noy Anciong.
> 
> ...



I agree with your beliefs of spreading the truth and pointing out how the "Family of Balintawak" all agree that Anciong Bacon was Balintawak, with the exception of one source. Hmmmm?!? It makes one wonder.  

Thank you for the sharing of your knowledge. :asian:


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