# good tai chi = good qi control?



## Milquetoast (Dec 27, 2002)

Hi,
I've been working on qi gong for the last few weeks, and it's been great (zhan zuang). Those obvious signs of qi blockage seem to have disippated, and for the first time, I am starting to experience breathing that's as smooth as butter.

I was wondering though, if someone was learning qi gong as part of a tai chi curriculum, would they be as focused on developing good qi control? How would it translate to martial applications? I'm just a qi gong beginner, so I don't think it has benefited my martial abilities (except maybe better control of muscles).


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## arnisador (Dec 30, 2002)

Do you mean that you're doing qi gong but not studying Tai Chi?


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## Milquetoast (Dec 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by arnisador _
> *Do you mean that you're doing qi gong but not studying Tai Chi? *



yes that's right, only doing qi gong.


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## Taiji fan (Dec 31, 2002)

Qigong is a faster way to build up energy than taiji (tai Chi).....personally I have never really liked Zhang Zhuang, but plenty of my mates swear by it...


> if someone was learning qi gong as part of a tai chi curriculum, would they be as focused on developing good qi control? How would it translate to martial applications?


 interesting question, to be honest 'qi control' in the same way as practised in qigong is not an essential part of taiji.  Practised correctly taiji does not require the same 'guiding' of qi as the delivery of the application is largely down to the intent, the spirit and the body mechanics and off course to get the power you need to be relaxed.  The movemnt of qi in taiji comes from a combination of these...so you can use your mind (intent) to guide the qi but perhaps not in the same way as you may guide in qigong. Ie you wouldn't visualise qi moving along the arm in taiji.....if your body requirments are correct its there.  

What lead you to qigong?.....often people don't hear about it until after they have started taiji.


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## chufeng (Jan 1, 2003)

TaiJiFan is correct...
Intent adn correct body allignment will move the qi naturally, it does not require a great deal of concentration...it does require that you understand the application, though, so you can have the proper intent withing the movement.

Those who practice qigong will notice the feeling of qi moving when they do TaiJi sooner than those who simply practice TaiJi; but, both can be done separate from another.

Qigong serves a few purposes and it is trained progressively; that is, one level must be achieved before moving to the next.

First one gathers qi and retains it, substantially increasing one's own personal stores...

Second, it is put into circulation, generally starting with the Conception and Governing vessles, and later to include the rest of the meridians...this is done gradually to develop the meridians. Then one learns to extend qi.

Third, one learns to draw qi from outside the body (usually through the bubbling well point on the sole of the foot) and use that to extend with (you will no longer be using your own stores for extension)...

There are many different methods of qigong. Each teacher will have his/her favorite...bottom line, they all work...just stick with it, whatever method you are using.

Sometimes, qigong is combined with neigong...neigong is specifically designed to strengthen internal organs and uses a variety of postures along with specific breathing patterns to achieve that...

TaiJiQuan is a martial art, but also a form of neigong and qigong...but as TaiJuFan said, the effort to move qi does not require concentration as much as it requires proper allignment and intent. Understanding the application is key to proper intent.
The TaiJi postures can be applied without the extension of qi, but when the connections are right and qi is flowing, they are much more powerful. 

Good luck in your training.

:asian:
chufeng


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## East Winds (Jan 3, 2003)

Taijifan and Chufeng are both abosultely correct. Good summary Chufeng!

I believe that the practice of Zhan Zhuang (Jam Jong) is an essential adjunct to Taijiquan. Zhan Zhuang can tell you how strong and correct your postures are, quicker than hours of form practice. Select any one posture from the form and perform it three or four times, then hold the posture from 30 seconds to a minute. You will soon find out the correctness and strength (or otherwise) of your postures! And of course you can use any Taiji posture for Zhan Zhuang practice and not just the 4 or 5 combat postures normally used.

I'm sure if you continue your Qigong practise you will eventually wish to move on to the practise of Taijiquan.

Very Best wishes

"When asked about breathing in Taji, my  Master replied "Yes, keep doing it!"


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## Milquetoast (Jan 4, 2003)

Thank you for your replies, they were very helpful.

I first learned about qi gong from learning hapkido. We do some moving qi gong after class, but its kind of an informal thing. For the first few months, I didn't know it was qi gong though. They were just called "breathing exercises". But I knew they were somehow related to TCM because our master does qi/TCM-based healing. I eventually figured out what they were after doing some reading.

I picked Zhan Zhuang to do on my own because I felt that the qi gong we were doing in class was too advanced for me. (Hard to get into the right state when you're trying to figure out basic motions, and among a bunch of other people).

Lately though, its been getting boring. At the beginning, I could hold a couple postures for half an hour. But now, its becoming a chore. The last couple weeks have been busy so I've been left with just relaxing my muscles in bed before I sleep. It's taking less and less time for normally tense muscles to "open up", and I can feel the qi in my hands. I could only feel it while standing up before, so this is interesting.

Don't know when and if I'll feel qi "move", or distinguish between the different kinds, but that sort of thing doesn't worry me too much. You know how the daoists say that it's about the practise, and not the theory.


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## Taiji fan (Jan 5, 2003)

Its good to know that qigong is not limited to the Chinese arts practice.  Sounds like you have a good teacher.


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## East Winds (Jan 5, 2003)

Milquetoast,

Zhan Zhuang should never be a chore! Standing for the sake of standing can be counter productive. Stand only for as long as your body needs! In other words, when you find your mind wandering, or you find the posture becoming uncomfortable. STOP!! You have done as much as your body needs. If your mind starts to wander after a minute, that's when you stop. You can then either try and recompose yourself, or probably better, don't do any more! Leave it and try again later. Too many people starting Zhan Zhuang set themselves targets and either become bored or give up all together. My Master used to recommend starting with 25 seconds!!!! and then gradually building up, but the moment you lose concentration, then you stop. On the other hand if it is only leg strength or muscle power you are trying to build, then yes, go for it as long as you can stand! But remember, in that case it is not Zhan Zhuang you are practising.

Keep going with the Zhan Zhuang. It is a wonderful exercise with so many facets that it is like a journey of self discovery of your body.

Very best wishes and success with your training

"When asked about breathing in Taiji, my Master replied "Yes, keep doing it"


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## Milquetoast (Jan 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by East Winds _
> *
> Zhan Zhuang should never be a chore! Standing for the sake of standing can be counter productive. Stand only for as long as your body needs!*



Ah with this in mind, I went back to Zhan Zhuang with a more positive attitude. I also found some old postings from the dim mak egroup (what happened to it?) on rooting during Zhan Zhuang, and that has encouraged me to keep going.

Thanks for the pointer, it was valuable.


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